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The horrific execution by police of an Australian woman in her pajamas that took place last week in Minneapolis has again produced a torrent of criticism over killings initiated by law enforcement in situations in which the officers are in no way threatened. America has always been a violent place relative to much of the rest of the world, but even so there has been a noticeable shift in how, since the trauma of 9/11, some policemen believe themselves to be superior to and detached from the society they are supposed to be protecting. And the public is reciprocating, seeing the police frequently as a force that is no longer there to serve the people and instead something that should be feared. Even in the upper middle class predominantly white county that I live in, residents not infrequently discuss the increasingly visible and aggressive police presence. It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.

Even in low crime parts of the country, the police are able to deploy fully armed and equipped swat teams that are more military than civilian in their threatening demeanor as well in the body armor and weapons they carry. Many cities and counties now have surplus military armored vans for crowd control even if they have no crowds. Armed drones are increasingly becoming part of the law enforcement arsenal and it sometimes appears as if the police are copying the military as a model of “how to do it.”

The various levels of government that make up the United States seem to be preparing for some kind of insurrection, which may indeed be the case somewhere down the road if the frustrations of the public are not somehow dealt with. But there is another factor that has, in my opinion, become a key element in the militarization of the police in the United States. That would be the role of the security organs of the state of Israel in training American cops, a lucrative business that has developed since 9/11 and which inter alia gives the “students” a whole different perspective on the connection of the police with those who are being policed, making the relationship much more one of an occupier and the occupied.

The engagement of American police forces with Israeli security services began modestly enough in the wake of 9/11. The panic response in the United States to a major terrorist act led to a search for resources to confront what was perceived as a new type of threat that normal law-and-order training did not address.

Israel, which, in its current occupation of much of Palestine and the Golan Heights as well as former stints in Gaza, southern Lebanon and Sinai, admittedly has considerable experience in dealing with the resistance to its expansion manifested as what it describes as terrorism. Jewish organizations in the United States dedicated to providing cover for Israeli’s bad behavior, saw an opportunity to get their hooks into a sizable and respected community within the U.S. that was ripe for conversion to the Israeli point of view, so they began funding “exchanges.”

Since 2002 there have been hundreds of all-expenses-paid trips including officers from every major American city as well as state and local police departments. Some have been sponsored by the American Jewish Committee (AJC) and the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) has also been directly funding trips since 2008, explaining that “As a people living under constant threat of attack, the Israelis are leading experts in security enforcement and response strategies.” The intent? To “learn” and “draw from the latest developments” so the American cops can “bring these methods back home to implement in their communities.”

AIPAC has several pages in its website dedicated to security cooperation between the two countries. It asks “Did you know? In May 2010, 50 retired Generals and Admirals wrote to President Obama, highlighting the value of U.S. Israeli cooperation.” It goes on to cite an Alabama sheriff who enthuses that “There is no other country [Israel] that shares the same values and overarching goal to allow others to live in peace.” Regarding airport security, it also quotes a U.S. “security expert” who states “We should move even closer to an Israeli model where there’s more engagement with passengers…We’ve just stated to do that at TSA…” Indeed. That’s called profiling and pre-boarding interrogations.

Even the federal government has gotten onto the Israel bandwagon, perhaps not a surprise given the number of Israel Firsters in Congress. In 2003, the Department of Homeland Security established a special Office of International Affairs to “institutionalize the relationship between Israeli and American security officials.” The New York City Police Department has a branch in Israel and carries out frequent exchanges.

It should be noted from the git-go that Israel is no more knowledgeable about possible responses to acts of terror than is anyone else. The techniques employed to create physical barriers, to develop sources for intelligence gathering, and to train in tactical responses are quite familiar to anyone who has studied modern-style terrorism since it emerged in Western Europe in the 1970s.

Most countries that have a high or even moderate risk level deriving from terrorists, either domestic or foreign, have recruited and trained special police and paramilitary forces that are familiar with the basic techniques and are quite capable of responding. Ironically, even though the United States government and local police forces have tended to look at the “real pro” Israelis for guidance, state of the art resources for learning about how to deal with terror are available right here at home. JSOC has teams that are every bit as effective – and lethal – as anything the Israelis can muster and the CIA and FBI together know far more about terrorists and how they behave than do the ideologically driven Mossad and Shin Beth.

The American policemen who go on the “exchanges” are probably only dimly aware that what they are being shown is part of Israel’s military justice system, which has nothing to do with Israeli criminals, but instead is designed to keep the lid on the millions of Palestinians who live in what has become a virtual outdoor prison camp. It is an apartheid police state that uses deadly force as a form of crowd control. And the Palestinian former residents of the lands Israel now holds are the “terrorists” that Israel is protecting itself against.

You can bet that the American guests for their part clearly do not realize that they are being trained as prison guards and you also can be sure that they never catch so much as a glimpse of the 300 child prisoners that Israel continues to hold without charges.

Israel’s reputation for “dealing with” terrorism has in any event been glamorized by the Israel-friendly media and entertainment industry while also being promoted by Jewish organizations. It has meant in practical terms that many of the contract security firms operating at airports in the United States and Europe are Israeli. They have also infiltrated state Homeland Security agencies and corporate security in the U.S. Many of the Israeli companies with offices in the United States work closely with Mossad and might reasonably be considered arms of the Israeli government.

Where Israel really excels is in its willingness to kill large numbers of Arabs of all ages and genders using the excuse that they are terrorists. It does so with impunity because Israeli courts almost never hold the army and police accountable for whatever they do. It might reasonably be suggested that when American police officers go through their training in Israel they acquire at least a bit of that attitude from their instructors.

Recognizing that Israel is not exactly a model to be emulated when it comes to the human rights of its Palestinian victims, there is alternative viewpoint which suggests that American law enforcement might just be learning the wrong things when it travels to Israel. Amnesty International asks “With Whom are Many U.S. Police Departments Training? With Chronic Human Rights Violator Israel.” It notes that last August when the Department of Justice documented numerous violations by the Baltimore Police Department the report failed to mention that policemen from that city had received training in Israel.

Amnesty makes clear what we are dealing with when our policemen are being trained – “…military, security and police systems that have racked up documented human rights violations for years…carrying out extrajudicial executions and other unlawful killings, using ill treatment and torture (even against children). Suppression of freedom of expressions/association, including through government surveillance, and excessive use of force against peaceful protesters.”

And actually, it is worse than that. The American visitors will be welcomed to contemplate the Potemkin village miracle of a democratic, multicultural, inclusive, clever Israel. They will not be allowed to see how the soldiers training them, representatives of “the most moral army in the world,” force Palestinian women to give birth at military checkpoints and watch their babies die, shoot Palestinian teenagers as they are running away for throwing stones, drag men and women out of their beds and kill them while terrorizing their children and dragging them off to jail during midnight raids.

Amnesty’s article documents many of the abuses by Israeli security forces and concludes that using “Public or private funds spent to train our domestic police in Israel should concern all of us. Many of the abuses [in the U.S.] parallel violations by Israeli military, security and police officials.” I would also add that the training provided by JINSA, ADL and the AJC is also partly on the American taxpayers’ dime as the organizations are all tax exempt.

Finally, Israel’s ability to market its state sponsored brutality has even become a form of light entertainment. A company in Israel called Caliber 3 that was set up by a reserve colonel in the Israeli army is offering what has been described as a two hour “boot camp” counter-terrorism experience. It includes a life size target consisting of a man in Arab attire holding a cell phone. The mostly Jewish American audience ponders if he should be shot, but the instructors eventually intervene and declare that he does not quite meet the standard for being killed. Visitors are also treated to simulations of Israeli commandos taking down terrorists and can even shoot live rounds from a semi-automatic weapon at a firing range. Ironically, the Caliber 3 gated compound camp is located in the Gush Etzion settlement bloc on the West Bank, land that was stolen from the Palestinians.

 
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  1. In 1829, Robert Peel laid down the bedrock philosophy of policing in the Anglo-Saxon world, now called the Peelian principles. These principles would have seemed unexceptional to us even five decades ago.

    But, I daresay, they would be scoffed at by at least some of the proponents of the new philosophy of warrior-policing in America. On the other hand, some would argue that America is no longer an Anglo-Saxon society, at least not in the culture of its criminal population.

    1 The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

    2 The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

    3 Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

    4 The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

    5 Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.

    6 Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.

    7 Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    8 Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.

    9 The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    1 The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

    2 The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

    3 Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

    4 The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

    5 Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
     
    Of course all that is a lot easier when you have fewer and less intrusive laws, rather than as we have now the fruits of a century and more of interfering busybody and ideologically motivated MPs seeking to justify their positions and impose their ideologies by legislating in every area of life they can get away with.

    Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
     
    Our society sadly long ago moved away from this approach, partly perhaps as an inevitable accompaniment to the atomisation of communities into individuals and nuclear families watching television inside rather than talking to their neighbours, but probably also in response to the strong pressure exerted by a large professional police force jealous of its privileges, quick to criticise and warn against "have a go heroes" and often willing to first investigate those who defend themselves and their property for any possible crimes they might have committed rather than to act on a proper respect for them.

    Ironically it is some of the immigrant communities that still retain some of our former willingness to act in this way, as seen in some of the recent riot situations, even as the balkanisation of society by mass immigration probably rings the final death knell for policing by consent.

    The US experience is a constant reminder of the need to cling on to as much as is left of the unarmed police principle in this country, even as the distribution of tasers compromises it.
    , @Jake
    And how did Peelers 'act' in Ireland? As an occupying force that spent a good deal of hours engaged in under-cover role-playing. That was true even of units composed exclusively of non-officers were native Irish born Catholics.

    Israel learned everything it knows and does about militarized police, police working hand in hand with military intelligence to spy on citizens, to redirect the activities of citizens so that they would become more complacent before the central government, from the British Empire.

    If you would like an even an earlier example of Anglo-Saxon policing, I suggest you look into the Tudor era.
    , @in the middle
    I was in law enforcement for eleven years. I removed myself from it when I considered too brutal and biased. In several occasions I over heard other police officers talking about their actions and how they enjoyed scaring people with a joyous laugh. I found it disturbing and malicious. I left. Make no mistake, the police brutality will seize when the large part of whites refuse to be blind to the excessive of abuses committed in their name by a police force out of control. A police State was created thanks to people's disregard to see what is happening to out nation brutalized by its police force. I have not experienced any abuse by any police officer anywhere, but what I see with police officers videotaped abusing citizens is a disgrace. Worst yet, is that they KNOW that they will get away with it. It is high time to bring this abusers to justice, but won't happen until the masonic fraternal order of police is found accountable for defending this evil that is spreading like wild fire. Now with the judaics involved, will get worst. Also it is high time to place these organizations in their place. Yes, they are powerful, but so was the Roman empire, and so was the British empire. Time to empower the Sherriff's departments to corral and put in place the city PDs. Sadly, the majority of Americans are so dumb down, that once they are called anti this or anti that, their brain ceases to work, and are frightened and paralyzed to do anything, besides whine and snivel about their fears.
    , @anonymous
    "policing in the Anglo-Saxon world..."

    Sorry, but you made a typo there;

    "policing in the Anglo-Satan world..."

    There, corrected!
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  2. It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.

    This is nothing new.

    What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.

    Any time humans have power over others, that power needs to be limited and counterbalanced. This is always an issue with police forces. Anybody who’s lived a little has seen examples, going way back, of how hard it is to maintain this balance.

    Some people are just newly aware of this eternal issue now because cops have more toys and everything looks like it was built for Darth Vader.

    As for the non-sequitur in this case, Israel, it is a good place to learn how to keep unwanted people out of your country (clue: walls work) and how to profile those among whom criminals operate. It is where one can unlearn American political correctness with regard to law enforcement. The key again is balance — between learning what is useful, and leaving out the abuses which, yes yes yes, we all know exist.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again. Re-learning good manners would help them grease the wheels with cops too.

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    • Replies: @ISmellBagels
    "What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions."

    And likewise, abuse of authority and other misbehavior by police tend to make the citizens lose respect for authority and bring on what you describe.
    , @jacques sheete

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again.
     
    When was that ever adhered to?

    Especially after the War of the Northern Banksters against the Southern Planters, how could anyone believe that the BoR retains even a tiny shred of validity or authority?

    , @Chris Mallory

    an absence of respect for authority figures.
     
    "We the People in order......"

    In the US the people are the Authority. Government employees owe respect to the citizens. We do not owe respect to government employees.

    If a cop is such a special snowflake that he can't get his feelings hurt by a mean ol' citizen, then he is more than welcome to find honest employment and to quit living off the sweat of the citizen's brow.


    There are no good cops, no not one. All cops are trained liars. Never trust a word out of a cop's mouth.
    , @in the middle
    the Australian lady failed to re-learn that American cops are killers! I guess. She should have not called 911; did so at her own peril. Americans are learning that now as in the old west, we need to arm ourselves and take care of the issue at hand, since calling for police assistance, can be their last actions on earth. God bless Florida for the stand your ground law. Once we all have that all over the country, then those thuggish cops will be irrelevant. We do need to support our sheriff departments: They are well respected and with good reason. Sheriffs are for the most part not in the killing innocents business.
    , @Joe Wong
    American said the regimes imposing law and order to balance good manners in the public and irresponsible freedom mischief is authoritarian or communist that needs to be regime changed via CIA or NED sponsored NGOs engineered color revolution if not thru bombing and killing on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention.

    You are demanding good manner in the public and respect of authority in the USA, it seems the USA fits very well the definition of an authoritarian or communist regime, I guess a regime change via color revolution or bombing and killing on a fabricated allegation as humanitarian intervention should be on order to cure the sickness prevailing in the USA.

    , @isthatright
    of course it couldn't be the cops fault, they never do anything wrong, when was the last time a grand jury found one guilty?, wake up idiot a lot of times the person never gets the chance to kiss the cops ass before he's turned into Swiss cheese
  3. Wally says: • Website

    I ditched when I read:

    “The engagement of American police forces with Israeli security services began modestly enough in the wake of 9/11. The panic response in the United States to a major terrorist act …”

    It was, however, “that shitty little country” that benefited the most from the entire staged 9/11 fraud.

    http://www.ae911truth.org

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  4. Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.
    In 2001 in the USA a USA friend called the police ‘the internal army’.
    Since then the police has been militarised, they got armoured personnel carriers, even tanks and armour piercing ammunition.
    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens.
    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

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    • Replies: @Chris Mallory

    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.
     
    The death penalty is seldom used and never within a time frame that justice would require.
    , @Randal

    Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.
     
    I've see many, many stories from the US over the past few decades about women who've called the police out to deal with supposed "domestic violence" or some other petty disorder, and ended up a widow, or having her child or a family pet executed by some trigger happy thugs in uniform.

    The latest case of the woman murdered by a Somali affirmative action police recruit is by no means unique, though it seems particularly egregious.
    , @Wally
    "while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend"

    With friends like those who needs enemies?

    How's that Muslim takeover going for you?

    Your wife, girlfriend been raped this week?

    How does that lack of free speech feel?

    , @Alden
    If you don't mind my asking, what contact did you have with the American police in 1978?
    , @woodNfish

    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens. And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.
     
    You listen to too much of the leftist fake news. The US is the largest welfare state in the world. But since you are obviously a disarmed European sheep, how's that goat fucking muslim invasion you have no way of stopping working out for you?
  5. Good stuff Phil. I would note, however, L Fletcher Prouty pointed to the militarization of the USA’s police forty years ago in his seminal tome on the CIA: The Secret Team.

    https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/

    That Israel has joined the endeavor comes as no surprise, particularly in the post 9/11 era where the many programs of inter-military/police training have accelerated. Relevant to this, a veteran’s preference law purposely giving Americans with military background an employment advantage throughout law enforcement agencies at every level, state and federal, combined with unceasing conflict, creates a law enforcement talent pool heavily slanted to an ‘us versus them’ mentality. It’s the nature of the beast:

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2014/12/09/metadata-panorama/

    These preceding combine to strengthen a peculiar (and necrotic) mentality per the Likud (Netanyahu’s political alignment) view of the world that I fear has infected the USA rather badly:

    “After Menachem Begin’s Likud Party came to power in 1977, these economic interests converged with ideological affinities to make the alliance even stronger. Many members of the Likud Party shared with South Africa’s leaders an ideology of minority survivalism that presented the two countries as threatened outposts of European civilization defending their existence against barbarians at the gates”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2013/12/alliance-relationship-apartheid/

    I would note American white nationalism is not immune to a similar paranoid attitude -

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  6. LondonBob says:

    Obviously as demographics and thus society changes it is inevitable US policing will increasingly resemble the Latin American style militarised approach. The staggering role of the Israelis in your policing certainly deserves its own examination though. Of course the ADL has a long history intertwined with that of the national crime syndicate (and the Mossad), even awarding Moe Dalitz the Torch of Freedom. The ADL should be regarded in the same light as Joe Colombo’s Italian-American Civil Rights League.

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  7. Renoman says:

    Too many meat heads, too many steroids too many guns. No need for 98% of it.

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  8. Like a wasp or scorpion that just can’t stop stinging, Israel & it’s various Dogs, will not be happy until the entire US Body Politic is poisoned.

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    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    until the entire US Body Politic is poisoned.
     
    It already is and while Israel plays a huge role in it, let's not relieve others of the responsibility for that--behavior of US Congress during Bibi's 2015 speech to a joint session is more than pathetic, it is treasonous. Not all in US Congress are Jews. This pathetic behavior is also very indicative of this body politic being poisoned.
  9. Listen Philip, I have no disagreement with, and will take your word for, all the details in your article here. However you are missing THE major point regarding the basic reason for the rapidly increasing militarization of police forces in the US. Note first that may answer can be realized just from my last sentence, as I wrote “police forces”, not “US police force”.

    Th US Constitution has been virtually shredded and trolled over the last 50 years, but is has been the total disregard for Amendment X, as the bulk of the shredding along with the addition of Amendments 16 and 17, the trolling, that have done the most severe damage. Amendment X being ignored means that nobody even considers restraint of US Feral Gov’t power anymore – the whole concept has been almost forgotten by the population. The 2 additions, besides other ill effects, affect the flow of the money, which is the key, and gets me to the topic of police militarization.

    The training by Israelis is a symptom, not the cause. Follow the flow of the money and resources! Let’s talk money first: Grants of all sorts can be obtained by city and count police forces. This money comes fron the American taxpayers, but they have ZERO say in who it goes to and how it’s used. Do you think these cops, especially in this day and age, will turn it down on principles of federalism? Every small-time, or ANY size, force will always want to enlarge their operations. That’s natural. In addition, there is always the very reasonable point of “it’s our tax money- if we don’t take it, someone else will.” There are strings attached, whether written or assumed, once the money is doled out. That’s not all- even with a stand-up chief or sheriff with the good attitude of “we still work for the citizens of _______”, there is still relations with the Feds that should not be.

    Now about the other resources: these armored vehicles, half-tracks, SWAT gear (the whole get-up “hut, hut, hut”) are hand-me-downs of US military equipment. It’s free, but it costs a bit to maintain, so they’d be stupid not to use it once in a while, right? I mean otherwise, the county council may, on the off chance there’s a man with integrity in it (hahaaa), question whether all this stuff should’t just be auctioned off ( to another police force probably). This stuff should be scrapped or auctioned to the public or sold overseas, that’s IT,. (Yes, if the army can own a tank, an American citizen has every right to own one.)

    This all adds up to a Standing Army, something the founders of this formerly great country were pretty damned worried about. Yeah the other army still has a few too many constraints on it, so a national police force, with the Fusion Centers for “cooperation” will take care of the US citizens citizens nicely.

    The training of parts of our US Standing Army by Israeli experts just will make them a bit better at keeping the citizens subjects in line when the SHTF, just for a while though.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    The training by Israelis is a symptom, not the cause. Follow the flow of the money and resources!
     
    Indeed.

    It's also not primarily a training exercise, or even primarily for profit, but rather its primary purpose is to promote sympathy for Israel in the US and especially in US law enforcement.
  10. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, besides training American cops to be cold-blooded killers, also have brought several hundred American generals and admirals to Israel to see how they smash Palestinians asking for justice, which should come in handy when the Deep State removes Trump from office and Americans riot against tyranny:

    http://www.jinsa.org/programs/about-jinsas-generals-and-admirals-program-israel

    Israel is like the volunteer firefighter arsonist that starts a massive fire, then calls it in to the 911 dispatch so he can be the first on the scene and get ‘Atta-Boys”

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @annamaria
    The "most moral" Israeli state and its "most moral" Israeli army have got to a point of recognizing the institutionalized rot: "Last year, a top Israeli general’s comments during the country’s annual Holocaust Remembrance Day address sparked controversy when he likened the atmosphere in modern day Israel to 1930’s Nazi Germany." http://www.globalresearch.ca/idf-chief-says-israel-is-becoming-like-nazi-germany-refuses-to-back-down/5600782
    Similar to the attempts at stopping the Nazi supremacist plans by the sane and moral German officers, the sane and moral Israelis (a small minority) are trying to highlight the obvious: "If there is anything that frightens me in the remembrance of the Holocaust, it is discerning nauseating processes that took place in Europe in general, and in Germany specifically back then, 70, 80 and 90 years ago, and seeing evidence of them here among us in the year 2016,” Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, the Israeli army’s deputy chief of staff said."
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    also have brought several hundred American generals and admirals to Israel to see how they smash Palestinians asking for justice
     
    One other (significant) point is missing--it is how IDF's combat experiences and achievements were initially blown grossly out of proportions in the US and then colored to a very large degree American military thinking. The fact that Israel's victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs was "somehow" discounted. The incessant (decades long) campaign of praise for Israel's military in US is nothing short of astonishing.
  11. It’s worth pointing out that police violence in America isn’t directed exclusively against blacks, whose rates of violent crime are after all much higher than whites. Even against whites, whose crime rates are comparable to European rates, American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their European counterparts. American police are clearly out of control.

    And don’t forget the media’s role in creating a false narrative in which the only choices are underclass sociopathy on the one hand, and police state tactics on the other.

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    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    " American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their european counterparts".

    American police are clearly out of control"

    Total nonsense.

    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals who had displayed mental or drug issues, and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force, such is always demanded of the US police by the european media.

    And of course since the Germans/Europeans are now the good guys, and DT's America is the nation of the bad guys, the the media manages to explain away every case of the fatal shooting of someone in Germany/Europe, while never even considering the possibility of a justified action on behalf of the US police.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.
  12. Randal says:
    @PiltdownMan
    In 1829, Robert Peel laid down the bedrock philosophy of policing in the Anglo-Saxon world, now called the Peelian principles. These principles would have seemed unexceptional to us even five decades ago.

    But, I daresay, they would be scoffed at by at least some of the proponents of the new philosophy of warrior-policing in America. On the other hand, some would argue that America is no longer an Anglo-Saxon society, at least not in the culture of its criminal population.


    1 The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

    2 The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

    3 Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

    4 The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

    5 Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.

    6 Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.

    7 Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    8 Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.

    9 The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

    1 The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

    2 The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

    3 Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

    4 The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

    5 Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.

    Of course all that is a lot easier when you have fewer and less intrusive laws, rather than as we have now the fruits of a century and more of interfering busybody and ideologically motivated MPs seeking to justify their positions and impose their ideologies by legislating in every area of life they can get away with.

    Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    Our society sadly long ago moved away from this approach, partly perhaps as an inevitable accompaniment to the atomisation of communities into individuals and nuclear families watching television inside rather than talking to their neighbours, but probably also in response to the strong pressure exerted by a large professional police force jealous of its privileges, quick to criticise and warn against “have a go heroes” and often willing to first investigate those who defend themselves and their property for any possible crimes they might have committed rather than to act on a proper respect for them.

    Ironically it is some of the immigrant communities that still retain some of our former willingness to act in this way, as seen in some of the recent riot situations, even as the balkanisation of society by mass immigration probably rings the final death knell for policing by consent.

    The US experience is a constant reminder of the need to cling on to as much as is left of the unarmed police principle in this country, even as the distribution of tasers compromises it.

    Read More
  13. The techniques employed to create physical barriers, to develop sources for intelligence gathering, and to train in tactical responses are quite familiar to anyone who has studied modern-style terrorism since it emerged in Western Europe in the 1970s.

    I would say that modern-style terrorism emerged around 1946 and the terrorist bombing of the King David Hotel, if not earlier.

    Some would no doubt move its emergence back to the birth of the Irgun, a de facto terrorist organization by any reasonable definition.

    The rest formed a new Irgun Zeva’i Le’umi (abbr. Etzel), which was ideologically linked with the Revisionist Movement and accepted the authority of its leader, Vladimir Jabotinsky.

    Etzel rejected the “restraint” policy of the Haganah and carried out armed reprisals against Arabs… Many of its members were arrested by the British authorities; one of them, Shlomo Ben Yosef, was hanged for shooting an Arab bus. After the publication of the White Paper in May 1939, Etzel directed its activities against the British Mandatory autorities.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/background-and-overview-of-the-irgun-etzel

    Read More
  14. @Buzz Mohawk

    It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.
     
    This is nothing new.

    What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.

    Any time humans have power over others, that power needs to be limited and counterbalanced. This is always an issue with police forces. Anybody who's lived a little has seen examples, going way back, of how hard it is to maintain this balance.

    Some people are just newly aware of this eternal issue now because cops have more toys and everything looks like it was built for Darth Vader.

    As for the non-sequitur in this case, Israel, it is a good place to learn how to keep unwanted people out of your country (clue: walls work) and how to profile those among whom criminals operate. It is where one can unlearn American political correctness with regard to law enforcement. The key again is balance -- between learning what is useful, and leaving out the abuses which, yes yes yes, we all know exist.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again. Re-learning good manners would help them grease the wheels with cops too.

    “What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.”

    And likewise, abuse of authority and other misbehavior by police tend to make the citizens lose respect for authority and bring on what you describe.

    Read More
  15. Where Israel really excels is in its willingness to kill large numbers of Arabs of all ages and genders using the excuse that they are terrorists. It does so with impunity because Israeli courts almost never hold the army and police accountable for whatever they do.

    That’s a huge flaw in our system as well. Rarely are the bigshots and their protective forces (such as politicians and cops) held accountable for even the most egregious violations of basic justice.

    Read More
  16. @Buzz Mohawk

    It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.
     
    This is nothing new.

    What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.

    Any time humans have power over others, that power needs to be limited and counterbalanced. This is always an issue with police forces. Anybody who's lived a little has seen examples, going way back, of how hard it is to maintain this balance.

    Some people are just newly aware of this eternal issue now because cops have more toys and everything looks like it was built for Darth Vader.

    As for the non-sequitur in this case, Israel, it is a good place to learn how to keep unwanted people out of your country (clue: walls work) and how to profile those among whom criminals operate. It is where one can unlearn American political correctness with regard to law enforcement. The key again is balance -- between learning what is useful, and leaving out the abuses which, yes yes yes, we all know exist.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again. Re-learning good manners would help them grease the wheels with cops too.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again.

    When was that ever adhered to?

    Especially after the War of the Northern Banksters against the Southern Planters, how could anyone believe that the BoR retains even a tiny shred of validity or authority?

    Read More
  17. annamaria says:
    @Greg Bacon
    The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, besides training American cops to be cold-blooded killers, also have brought several hundred American generals and admirals to Israel to see how they smash Palestinians asking for justice, which should come in handy when the Deep State removes Trump from office and Americans riot against tyranny:

    http://www.jinsa.org/programs/about-jinsas-generals-and-admirals-program-israel

    Israel is like the volunteer firefighter arsonist that starts a massive fire, then calls it in to the 911 dispatch so he can be the first on the scene and get 'Atta-Boys"

    The “most moral” Israeli state and its “most moral” Israeli army have got to a point of recognizing the institutionalized rot: “Last year, a top Israeli general’s comments during the country’s annual Holocaust Remembrance Day address sparked controversy when he likened the atmosphere in modern day Israel to 1930’s Nazi Germany.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/idf-chief-says-israel-is-becoming-like-nazi-germany-refuses-to-back-down/5600782
    Similar to the attempts at stopping the Nazi supremacist plans by the sane and moral German officers, the sane and moral Israelis (a small minority) are trying to highlight the obvious: “If there is anything that frightens me in the remembrance of the Holocaust, it is discerning nauseating processes that took place in Europe in general, and in Germany specifically back then, 70, 80 and 90 years ago, and seeing evidence of them here among us in the year 2016,” Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, the Israeli army’s deputy chief of staff said.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Miko Peled refers to "Judeo-Nazis." "Course he could just be another "self loather" er sumpin.

    In any case all this should come as no surprise since, after all, there was Nazi-Zionist cooperation before and during WW2, not that the Zionists were particularly anti-Bolshie, as the Nazis most definitely were.

    https://twitter.com/mikopeled/status/718261701737639936
  18. One Tribe says:

    The entire progression is consistent with an increasingly clear pattern.

    The culture of the ‘West’, especially the U.S.A. is being moderated, socially engineered, as per the Hasbara.

    With overwhelming control of the media/propaganda agencies, at all levels across a ‘global’ spectrum, citizens are being ‘perception managed’ to create an artificial ‘empathy’ towards the Israeli ‘situation’.
    Please note the remarkable similarities between the ongoing flippant murder of Palestinians (in their native land), and the eerily similar murders of ‘coloureds’ in the U.S.A.; they have the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.

    Now in Europe, the influx of Middle Eastern Arabs, thanks to “we came, we saw, and… he died” referring to Hillary’s flippant description of the war against Libya, which was the gatekeeper for migrants/refugees. With this ‘alien’ population base, we see all of this ‘strife’ being brought to our attention (daily) by the ever alert ‘media’; ‘their raping our women!!!’

    The same agencies set up to mute down and socially engineer more rights and lesser responsibilities for the Jews in Europe and elsewhere are now being used to advocate for clamp downs on these ‘enemies’ amongst us.

    This is social engineering over a generational time frame, say 20 years.

    The war on the Arabs has been going on for over 20 years already, but the end game is approaching.

    In the U.S.A., the is convergence between the view of ‘blacks’ as dangerous and inherently threatening, slowing morphing to ‘brown’ (or anything not ‘white’), and the Israeli position towards Arabs.

    Get ready for the media storm.
    These thoughts may be tested in the 2-5 year horizon; the prediction is for increasing media coverage of the ‘problems’ with the Arab migrants, certainly regular ‘terror’ acts and ‘outrages’ against ‘misogynistic’ Arab men.
    Note how the ‘feminist’ movement is so eerily aligned to the Zionist program, in both disempowerment of host-nation citizens as objective, and in the means, by establishing a covert controlling interest across judiciary, academia, (of course) media, and (to brain wash the children) education.
    It seems that the primary disempowerment tool currently in use is the `feminist`movement in the `West“; it will continue to be the primary tool, as it has yet to reach its hysterical maturity.

    Shout out to PiltdownMan above, for reminding me of the key components to policing, as was the format before; I will add that policing requires the police to be members of the community, and now that police have more or less detached themselves to segregated camps (police bars, police gyms, police dating services, etc.) they have become an occupying army, and the subconscious understanding of the citizens makes us all fearful of their presence. It is notable that the police services don`t adhere to policy direction from democratic representatives, except when it suits the `occupation`agenda; it seems in retrospect that the police agencies were annexed quite a while ago, judging from the timeline of self-segregation that has occurred over the past forty years.

    So while the `training`of police by Israeli agencies is a visible fact, it is not surprising in the context of the existing trend lines, but yet marks a milestone in allowing the visibility of it. Of course none of this will reach the mainstream media.

    The trend is clear, ideological alignment with the Zionist agenda.

    War is coming, one way or another.
    Either the top 0.1%, including the entrenched Zionist agency, will successfully enable a world war against Russia (the renewed boogey men), and or China (the yellow hoard), and or there will be `hot`civil war. By the trend of the ongoing cold civil war in the U.S.A., and the introduction of the illegal anti-BDS bill in the U.S.A. legislatures, the hot civil war could come first. Unfortunately, this would be better for the planet, possibly even better for the citizens of the U.S.A.
    But it will be bad, nonetheless.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Please note the remarkable similarities between the ongoing flippant murder of Palestinians (in their native land), and the eerily similar murders of ‘coloureds’ in the U.S.A.; they have the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.
     
    good lord

    talk about bass akwards

    when's the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj_6GFIxBsY

    if this isn't Michael Brown, it certainly could be, since we all saw the video of him throttling that little store keep for objecting to Brown stealing from him.

    If anything, it's the old man that resembles a Palestinian, and the thug your typical Israeli, brutalizing and stealing from them with a sense of entitlement.

    as our society becomes increasingly crass and disharmonious, as we become more and more diverse, this is all part of the plan. ((They)) want strife and ethnic hatred- so it will predictably cause problems and crime and social unraveling, leading to riots and death, so that they'll have the excuse to bring in the uniformed thugs to 'restore order', 'Israeli style'.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwqqlaXUcAAzYrZ.jpg

    pretending that Michael Brown was a model citizen who was gunned down for being black by a racist white cop, plays into their schemes by dividing the nation on racial grounds, and instilling a sense of grievance in the black and brown community, and creating hostility and resentment, that will lead to more of the same.

    The truth is that a LOT of young black (and brown and some white of course) men are vicious criminals, who wallow in a culture of "thug life", celebrated by our former president Obama as his cultural icons

    http://hw-img.datpiff.com/m9d3ab6a/Jay-Z_International_Gangster-front-large.jpg

    and heralded by ((Hollywood and the media)) as the second coming ..

    .. to create a nation of violent, career criminals and the terrorized citizens (of all races) clamoring for the police to 'protect them'

    .. is all part of the plan to divide and conquer

    Ehud Barak said it best at 3:56 to 4:07

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Zj1fnGtjk

    we live in a new time now. Every simple step that an American wants to make is now going to be "more complicated". Crossing a border or going on a plane, the American people are now going to be treated like the Palestinians that they are. And if they resist...

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwqqlaXUcAAzYrZ.jpg
  19. Moi says:

    And Israel isn’t yet even close to scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    Read More
  20. @Buzz Mohawk

    It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.
     
    This is nothing new.

    What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.

    Any time humans have power over others, that power needs to be limited and counterbalanced. This is always an issue with police forces. Anybody who's lived a little has seen examples, going way back, of how hard it is to maintain this balance.

    Some people are just newly aware of this eternal issue now because cops have more toys and everything looks like it was built for Darth Vader.

    As for the non-sequitur in this case, Israel, it is a good place to learn how to keep unwanted people out of your country (clue: walls work) and how to profile those among whom criminals operate. It is where one can unlearn American political correctness with regard to law enforcement. The key again is balance -- between learning what is useful, and leaving out the abuses which, yes yes yes, we all know exist.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again. Re-learning good manners would help them grease the wheels with cops too.

    an absence of respect for authority figures.

    “We the People in order……”

    In the US the people are the Authority. Government employees owe respect to the citizens. We do not owe respect to government employees.

    If a cop is such a special snowflake that he can’t get his feelings hurt by a mean ol’ citizen, then he is more than welcome to find honest employment and to quit living off the sweat of the citizen’s brow.

    There are no good cops, no not one. All cops are trained liars. Never trust a word out of a cop’s mouth.

    Read More
    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Delinquent Snail
    So cops that help first responders arent good cops? Or at least decent?
  21. anarchyst says:

    It is interesting to note, that even in communist countries, (China, Vietnam, North Korea), the citizenry routinely argues with police officers and is not in danger of being subject to “lethal force”, unlike “the good ol’ USA”, which has adopted Israeli police tactics, demanding total and immediate compliance with their commands.
    Problems arise when there are two or more cops are shouting conflicting commands. The person in question (the “subject”) is quite often put in danger by not reacting fast enough or “correctly”.
    Militarization of police forces must go…
    In addition, I would be wary about hiring veterans of America’s “military adventures” as police officers, without extensive “deprogramming” to get rid of the “us vs. them” attitude, (which DOES permeate much of American “law enforcement”).

    Read More
  22. KenH says:

    The police shooting of the Australian woman was by an affirmative action Somali Muslim with a history of psychological problems. That’s a relevant point that should have been included and this is a case of affirmative action and diversity gone awry. This wasn’t a case of a Nordic police officer eager to apply Israeli training methods on a fellow white woman.

    I wholeheartedly agree that our local police should not be receiving training from Israel and treating everyone as potential insurgents as they do. But you also can’t police America’s blacks, Latinos and other third world racial groups with Barney Fife methods of policing either.

    Violent crime plummeted in NYC when the police dept. began racial profiling.

    Read More
  23. @jilles dykstra
    Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.
    In 2001 in the USA a USA friend called the police 'the internal army'.
    Since then the police has been militarised, they got armoured personnel carriers, even tanks and armour piercing ammunition.
    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens.
    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    The death penalty is seldom used and never within a time frame that justice would require.

    Read More
  24. Randal says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    Listen Philip, I have no disagreement with, and will take your word for, all the details in your article here. However you are missing THE major point regarding the basic reason for the rapidly increasing militarization of police forces in the US. Note first that may answer can be realized just from my last sentence, as I wrote "police forces", not "US police force".

    Th US Constitution has been virtually shredded and trolled over the last 50 years, but is has been the total disregard for Amendment X, as the bulk of the shredding along with the addition of Amendments 16 and 17, the trolling, that have done the most severe damage. Amendment X being ignored means that nobody even considers restraint of US Feral Gov't power anymore - the whole concept has been almost forgotten by the population. The 2 additions, besides other ill effects, affect the flow of the money, which is the key, and gets me to the topic of police militarization.

    The training by Israelis is a symptom, not the cause. Follow the flow of the money and resources! Let's talk money first: Grants of all sorts can be obtained by city and count police forces. This money comes fron the American taxpayers, but they have ZERO say in who it goes to and how it's used. Do you think these cops, especially in this day and age, will turn it down on principles of federalism? Every small-time, or ANY size, force will always want to enlarge their operations. That's natural. In addition, there is always the very reasonable point of "it's our tax money- if we don't take it, someone else will." There are strings attached, whether written or assumed, once the money is doled out. That's not all- even with a stand-up chief or sheriff with the good attitude of "we still work for the citizens of _______", there is still relations with the Feds that should not be.

    Now about the other resources: these armored vehicles, half-tracks, SWAT gear (the whole get-up "hut, hut, hut") are hand-me-downs of US military equipment. It's free, but it costs a bit to maintain, so they'd be stupid not to use it once in a while, right? I mean otherwise, the county council may, on the off chance there's a man with integrity in it (hahaaa), question whether all this stuff should't just be auctioned off ( to another police force probably). This stuff should be scrapped or auctioned to the public or sold overseas, that's IT,. (Yes, if the army can own a tank, an American citizen has every right to own one.)

    This all adds up to a Standing Army, something the founders of this formerly great country were pretty damned worried about. Yeah the other army still has a few too many constraints on it, so a national police force, with the Fusion Centers for "cooperation" will take care of the US citizens citizens nicely.

    The training of parts of our US Standing Army by Israeli experts just will make them a bit better at keeping the citizens subjects in line when the SHTF, just for a while though.

    The training by Israelis is a symptom, not the cause. Follow the flow of the money and resources!

    Indeed.

    It’s also not primarily a training exercise, or even primarily for profit, but rather its primary purpose is to promote sympathy for Israel in the US and especially in US law enforcement.

    Read More
  25. A Rachel Corrie

    Read More
    • Replies: @cutting-the-grass
    Much more than just 'a woman' ...what They left out: Holistic Healer/Dr. Justine Damond killed by police in Minneapolis
    By Erin Elizabeth - July 16, 2017
    ...Dr. Justine Damond, 40,
    a well known Australian holistic healer, cancer researcher
    and
    trained veterinarian surgeon from Sydney,
    was
    shot dead...

    https://www.healthnutnews.com/spiritual-healer-killed-by-police-in-minneapolis/

    Holistic Doctor Death Series: Over 60 Dead In Just Over A Year
    By Erin Elizabeth
    ... Sadly, most mainstream sites barely cover one doctor, let alone the dozens we’ve had die this year, if we count mysterious accidents, murders, alleged suicides, or unexplained sudden deaths.

    As you will see in the timeline below, there are allegedly 3 different dates within one month where 2 doctors died on the same day. That’s 6 doctors (who died in pairs on 3 different days).

    Some of the biggest skeptics, those who rolled their eyes at the first few deaths, are now wondering if there isn’t a connection. There have been theories, from GcMAF to CBD oil, but I don’t think all doctors used both of these treatments. I’m not convinced either is the smoking gun, but might hold part of the answer...Besides the fact that the majority were holistic, there is another common theme; they all cared deeply and were passionate about health. I have endless emails from their friends, patients, neighbors, loved ones, and family members. It’s clear they were adored by many.
    ...See below for the official detailed timeline. NOTE: There is often more than one doctor per # listed. Some paragraphs mention 8 dead doctors in one single sentence with links...
  26. The US is a country under occupation by its police, and it is strange, when you think about it, that this does not seem to vary all that much state by state, even though the individual states are supposed to be like independent, well, states, in that respect.

    Take that and a President who seems to be modeling his behavior on Kim Jong-un, you wonder where we are going. We can only hope that the Russians will try to do something to promote regime change.

    Read More
  27. Randal says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.
    In 2001 in the USA a USA friend called the police 'the internal army'.
    Since then the police has been militarised, they got armoured personnel carriers, even tanks and armour piercing ammunition.
    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens.
    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.

    I’ve see many, many stories from the US over the past few decades about women who’ve called the police out to deal with supposed “domestic violence” or some other petty disorder, and ended up a widow, or having her child or a family pet executed by some trigger happy thugs in uniform.

    The latest case of the woman murdered by a Somali affirmative action police recruit is by no means unique, though it seems particularly egregious.

    Read More
  28. @Greg Bacon
    The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, besides training American cops to be cold-blooded killers, also have brought several hundred American generals and admirals to Israel to see how they smash Palestinians asking for justice, which should come in handy when the Deep State removes Trump from office and Americans riot against tyranny:

    http://www.jinsa.org/programs/about-jinsas-generals-and-admirals-program-israel

    Israel is like the volunteer firefighter arsonist that starts a massive fire, then calls it in to the 911 dispatch so he can be the first on the scene and get 'Atta-Boys"

    also have brought several hundred American generals and admirals to Israel to see how they smash Palestinians asking for justice

    One other (significant) point is missing–it is how IDF’s combat experiences and achievements were initially blown grossly out of proportions in the US and then colored to a very large degree American military thinking. The fact that Israel’s victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs was “somehow” discounted. The incessant (decades long) campaign of praise for Israel’s military in US is nothing short of astonishing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    ..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied. So much for the "illiterate, incompetent Arabs...and the "high and mighty" IDF...
    , @jacques sheete

    The fact that Israel’s victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs ...
     
    I'm not sure incompetence and illiteracy were as much factors as lack of funding.

    The incompetence permeates all hierarchies; money allows the fools to paper over their mistakes and follies. In fact, to a large extent, states themselves exist to support non-productive incompetents it seems.
  29. Sherman says:

    Israel does indeed offer great training for its security forces and police. Israel is more than willing to share this knowledge with its friends around the world.

    I’ve been studying Krav Maga for over a decade and it’s an awesome form of self-defense and exercise.

    One of the guys I practice with is a police officer (a big Irish Catholic dude). His department sent him to Israel for intensive training in Krav Maga and Israeli police tactics. He told me it was an incredible experience.

    This guy is even more pro-Israel than I am!

    Read More
  30. @animalogic
    Like a wasp or scorpion that just can't stop stinging, Israel & it's various Dogs, will not be happy until the entire US Body Politic is poisoned.

    until the entire US Body Politic is poisoned.

    It already is and while Israel plays a huge role in it, let’s not relieve others of the responsibility for that–behavior of US Congress during Bibi’s 2015 speech to a joint session is more than pathetic, it is treasonous. Not all in US Congress are Jews. This pathetic behavior is also very indicative of this body politic being poisoned.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    You are correct. Not all in the U S Congress are jews. However, AIPAC, and other jewish organizations have such a stranglehold over the American political and election process, that it is almost impossible to get elected if AIPAC or other jewish organizations are against you.
    As to "dual citizenship", there are forty or so congressmen who hold dual citizenship with Israel. Add to that, the thousands of "policy wonks" infecting the U S government who also hold "dual citizenship" with Israel. THAT, my friends, is a real problem, as they influence the "lawmakers" as well as having the ability to interact with the "movers and shakers" who see only one thing--the accumulation of shekels...
  31. Rurik says: • Website
    @One Tribe
    The entire progression is consistent with an increasingly clear pattern.

    The culture of the 'West', especially the U.S.A. is being moderated, socially engineered, as per the Hasbara.

    With overwhelming control of the media/propaganda agencies, at all levels across a 'global' spectrum, citizens are being 'perception managed' to create an artificial 'empathy' towards the Israeli 'situation'.
    Please note the remarkable similarities between the ongoing flippant murder of Palestinians (in their native land), and the eerily similar murders of 'coloureds' in the U.S.A.; they have the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.

    Now in Europe, the influx of Middle Eastern Arabs, thanks to "we came, we saw, and... he died" referring to Hillary's flippant description of the war against Libya, which was the gatekeeper for migrants/refugees. With this 'alien' population base, we see all of this 'strife' being brought to our attention (daily) by the ever alert 'media'; 'their raping our women!!!'

    The same agencies set up to mute down and socially engineer more rights and lesser responsibilities for the Jews in Europe and elsewhere are now being used to advocate for clamp downs on these 'enemies' amongst us.

    This is social engineering over a generational time frame, say 20 years.

    The war on the Arabs has been going on for over 20 years already, but the end game is approaching.

    In the U.S.A., the is convergence between the view of 'blacks' as dangerous and inherently threatening, slowing morphing to 'brown' (or anything not 'white'), and the Israeli position towards Arabs.

    Get ready for the media storm.
    These thoughts may be tested in the 2-5 year horizon; the prediction is for increasing media coverage of the 'problems' with the Arab migrants, certainly regular 'terror' acts and 'outrages' against 'misogynistic' Arab men.
    Note how the 'feminist' movement is so eerily aligned to the Zionist program, in both disempowerment of host-nation citizens as objective, and in the means, by establishing a covert controlling interest across judiciary, academia, (of course) media, and (to brain wash the children) education.
    It seems that the primary disempowerment tool currently in use is the `feminist`movement in the `West``; it will continue to be the primary tool, as it has yet to reach its hysterical maturity.

    Shout out to PiltdownMan above, for reminding me of the key components to policing, as was the format before; I will add that policing requires the police to be members of the community, and now that police have more or less detached themselves to segregated camps (police bars, police gyms, police dating services, etc.) they have become an occupying army, and the subconscious understanding of the citizens makes us all fearful of their presence. It is notable that the police services don`t adhere to policy direction from democratic representatives, except when it suits the `occupation`agenda; it seems in retrospect that the police agencies were annexed quite a while ago, judging from the timeline of self-segregation that has occurred over the past forty years.

    So while the `training`of police by Israeli agencies is a visible fact, it is not surprising in the context of the existing trend lines, but yet marks a milestone in allowing the visibility of it. Of course none of this will reach the mainstream media.

    The trend is clear, ideological alignment with the Zionist agenda.

    War is coming, one way or another.
    Either the top 0.1%, including the entrenched Zionist agency, will successfully enable a world war against Russia (the renewed boogey men), and or China (the yellow hoard), and or there will be `hot`civil war. By the trend of the ongoing cold civil war in the U.S.A., and the introduction of the illegal anti-BDS bill in the U.S.A. legislatures, the hot civil war could come first. Unfortunately, this would be better for the planet, possibly even better for the citizens of the U.S.A.
    But it will be bad, nonetheless.

    Please note the remarkable similarities between the ongoing flippant murder of Palestinians (in their native land), and the eerily similar murders of ‘coloureds’ in the U.S.A.; they have the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.

    good lord

    talk about bass akwards

    when’s the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?

    if this isn’t Michael Brown, it certainly could be, since we all saw the video of him throttling that little store keep for objecting to Brown stealing from him.

    If anything, it’s the old man that resembles a Palestinian, and the thug your typical Israeli, brutalizing and stealing from them with a sense of entitlement.

    as our society becomes increasingly crass and disharmonious, as we become more and more diverse, this is all part of the plan. ((They)) want strife and ethnic hatred- so it will predictably cause problems and crime and social unraveling, leading to riots and death, so that they’ll have the excuse to bring in the uniformed thugs to ‘restore order’, ‘Israeli style’.

    pretending that Michael Brown was a model citizen who was gunned down for being black by a racist white cop, plays into their schemes by dividing the nation on racial grounds, and instilling a sense of grievance in the black and brown community, and creating hostility and resentment, that will lead to more of the same.

    The truth is that a LOT of young black (and brown and some white of course) men are vicious criminals, who wallow in a culture of “thug life”, celebrated by our former president Obama as his cultural icons

    and heralded by ((Hollywood and the media)) as the second coming ..

    .. to create a nation of violent, career criminals and the terrorized citizens (of all races) clamoring for the police to ‘protect them’

    .. is all part of the plan to divide and conquer

    Ehud Barak said it best at 3:56 to 4:07

    we live in a new time now. Every simple step that an American wants to make is now going to be “more complicated”. Crossing a border or going on a plane, the American people are now going to be treated like the Palestinians that they are. And if they resist…

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    • Replies: @One Tribe
    Thank you for your comment.
    I`m not certain that I understand your point.

    when’s the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?
     
    I am referring to the treatment by the cops (domestic occupation army), and :

    the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.
     
    and,
    treatment in by the media-propaganda agency.

    I am NOT trying to suggest that there are thugs (all colours) who are more deserving of the full measure of the law, but in a land supposedly governed by laws, all should be equal under them.
    This is of course the whole point, there is multi-tiered and arbitrary enforcement.

    Though I am not disagreeing with what I think you suggest, that the entire out-group (x-jews and other 1% financial elites), will eventually receive similar rights before the system.

    I hope this clarifies.
    , @chris
    Thanks Rurik for the video with Ehud Barak!

    Yeah, the world sure had fewer terrorist back then. Also a trip down memory lane is the respectful treatment of Putin and of Russia! But Iran is still #1, and not a mention of Saudi Arabia!!! Funny, even if you don't buy the whole revisionist story, surely the channeling of moneys by the Saudis to the terrorists must have been known by the secret services, certainly after the 1992 WTC explosion.

    Very funny, after saying he, and by extension, his gov had no info about the event, he's ready to get bin laden, and had to be whistled back by the host regarding what was public knowledge. Those guys cheering over in Jersey weren't the only Israelis dancing that day.

    BTW I had no idea Ehud had been the voice of Elmer J. Fudd !
  32. David says:

    And as if on cue, Judith Miller at City Journal writes:

    The numbers are impressive. In 2015, there were 33 stabbings in [Jerusalem]; this year, until the latest violence, there have been just six. In 2015, Jerusalem reported six deaths due to deliberate car-rammings; this year, one person has died in such incidents. While 43 terrorist attacks occurred in the city in 2015, only eight so far have taken place in 2017. Within the past year, stone-throwing incidents have dropped by 15 percent. Despite the Temple Mount attack, “these are dramatic reductions,” Halevy said.

    Such a record under the most challenging of circumstances holds potentially valuable lessons for other cities targeted by terror.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Seems that the true descendants of Maccabees have been trying to protect their ancestral lands from the Soviet imposters (and before that from the German Jews enamored with the romantic ideas of German nationalism). It is amazing to what extent people lose their sanity when they convince themselves in "chosenness." Think of the birth of terrorism in Israel.
    "At least three Israeli Prime Ministers have been involved in campaigns of terror.
    Menachem Begin was the commander of the terrorist group that blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing 96 people. He was Israeli Prime Minister in the '70s and '80s. He once described a massacre as "a splendid act of conquest".
    Yitzak Shamir was Prime Minister until 1992. He had been a leader of a Jewish group called the Stern Gang which carried out a string of assassinations.
    Ariel Sharon was found indirectly, but personally, responsible for a civilian massacre by Lebanese militia in two Palestinian refugee camps. At least 800 innocent men, women and children were murdered in cold blood, most of them Palestinians, after Sharon ordered his men to allow the militiamen access to the camps." https://www.countercurrents.org/pa-pilger110903.htm
    These numbers fade, of course, in the face of the ongoing slaughter in the Middle East. Iraq, Libya, and Syria have been dealt with already; Iran is the next target of ziocons. The US is a hapless host providing money and cannon fodder for the Eretz Israel project
    A minor detail: "In December 1940, Lehi [Stern Gang] contacted Germany with a proposal to aid German conquest in the Middle East in return for recognition of a Jewish state open to unlimited immigration" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
    No wonder that the local indigenous population is apprehensive about Jewish emigres from Europe, the former USSR, and the US.
  33. anarchyst says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    until the entire US Body Politic is poisoned.
     
    It already is and while Israel plays a huge role in it, let's not relieve others of the responsibility for that--behavior of US Congress during Bibi's 2015 speech to a joint session is more than pathetic, it is treasonous. Not all in US Congress are Jews. This pathetic behavior is also very indicative of this body politic being poisoned.

    You are correct. Not all in the U S Congress are jews. However, AIPAC, and other jewish organizations have such a stranglehold over the American political and election process, that it is almost impossible to get elected if AIPAC or other jewish organizations are against you.
    As to “dual citizenship”, there are forty or so congressmen who hold dual citizenship with Israel. Add to that, the thousands of “policy wonks” infecting the U S government who also hold “dual citizenship” with Israel. THAT, my friends, is a real problem, as they influence the “lawmakers” as well as having the ability to interact with the “movers and shakers” who see only one thing–the accumulation of shekels…

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Dual citizenship is not likely to change. For all the hand wringing and schreying, nothing will change in Washington because there is no force to compel a change. The corruption is so thorough and the payoffs so widespread to keep the right people benefiting from the system. Congress is corrupt and has been for decades. That is human nature at least American nature. Problems you identify, but solutions are scarce on the ground.
  34. vetran says:

    So do I need to go Lebanon to get some training from Hezbullah?
    Remember the battle of Bin Jbeil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil?

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  35. anarchyst says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    also have brought several hundred American generals and admirals to Israel to see how they smash Palestinians asking for justice
     
    One other (significant) point is missing--it is how IDF's combat experiences and achievements were initially blown grossly out of proportions in the US and then colored to a very large degree American military thinking. The fact that Israel's victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs was "somehow" discounted. The incessant (decades long) campaign of praise for Israel's military in US is nothing short of astonishing.

    ..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied. So much for the “illiterate, incompetent Arabs…and the “high and mighty” IDF…

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    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    ..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied. So much for the “illiterate, incompetent Arabs…and the “high and mighty” IDF…
     
    They learn, plus some good Russian-made Kornets were of great help;) But that was my point--a grossly exaggerated combat capabilities of IDF against competent and courageous opponent.
    , @Avery
    {..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied}

    There was only _one_ incursion during which IDF got badly bloodied: the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah. Were there others?

    In any case Martyanov is right: Hezbollah is not a regular Arab army.
    They are a highly disciplined guerilla force.
    Their military leadership is apparently based on meritocracy, unlike the regular Arab armies.

    In that particular war, Hezbollah had spent years building well concealed defensive positions, many on hilly terrain, which neither Israeli high-tech equipment nor their spies detected.
    IDF attacked static Hezbollah stongpoints and was mauled.
    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the 'mythical' Merkava.

    However, I believe IDF can still easily trounce any of Arab regular armies in an open warfare. Their AF has air-supremacy over their Arab enemies: without a powerful AF to counter it, all the ground forces of Arab armies will be destroyed out in the open.

    , @Avery
    {...illiterate, incompetent Arabs....}

    Here is one example of an incompetent Arab soldier*.

    [TOW missile v T-90, direct hit: Probably first-ever footage from Syrian battleground]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rfyeR-YaJw

    First they park a very valuable, modern tank out in the open, without concealment.
    Next, the excellent T-90 withstands the ISIS TOW-missile strike.
    Then the crewman, apparently in one piece, open the hatch and runs away - instead driving the very expensive tank the heck out of there.

    ________
    * No disrespect to SAA in general.
    Many of their men fought bravely and doggedly against overwhelming odds of ISIS invaders. Particularly those inside Kuweires air base: they were completely surrounded by the cannibals, yet fought for 3 years, until liberated.
  36. The sad fact is that Zionist Israel rules the U.S. government and with their AIPAC and their dual citizens and with a congress that puts Israel first above America this what we get, 911 which was done by Israel and the deep state , and perpetual wars for Zionist Israel and their NWO.

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  37. annamaria says:

    “The appearance of a new alliance in the Greater Middle East,” by Thierry Meyssan, http://www.voltairenet.org/article197244.html
    “The lying insinuations of the Washington Post were adopted by the whole of the Western Press. Perhaps this is due to the gregarious spirit of Western journalists, but perhaps – more probably – it demonstrates that the major medias are owned by the partisans of war in the Middle East and against Russia.
    The Bulgarian revelations about the existence of a vast arms traffic [to ISIS/Al Qaeda' "freedom fighters"] set up by General David Petraeus when he was still Director of the CIA, in 2012, and continued by him from his offices at the financial investment fund KKR, leave one stunned at the power of these war-makers. At least 17 states participated in operation « Timber Sycamore », in which Azerbaïdjan took care of the transport of 28,000 tons of weapons and Israël supplied false documents concerning their final destination. In all likelihood, David Petraeus and KKR were helped by the Assistant Secretary General of the UNO, Jeffrey Feltman. Of course, this gigantic traffic, without precedent in History in terms of its volume, will lead to no legal action, neither in the states concerned, nor on the international stage.”
    “Billions of dollars’ worth of arms against Syria:” http://www.voltairenet.org/article197144.html

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  38. @anarchyst
    ..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied. So much for the "illiterate, incompetent Arabs...and the "high and mighty" IDF...

    ..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied. So much for the “illiterate, incompetent Arabs…and the “high and mighty” IDF…

    They learn, plus some good Russian-made Kornets were of great help;) But that was my point–a grossly exaggerated combat capabilities of IDF against competent and courageous opponent.

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  39. This is an interesting theory. It would be even more interesting if you demonstrated that the Minneapolis Police Dept or some of the other Police Depts that had some of these high profile cases were part of these programs. I am not saying otherwise but it would have been useful to know if that was the case.

    There have definitely been unjustified shootings and it is outrageous that so many cops are not even convicted of manslaughter just because they can demonstrate fear. Wow, talk about a license to kill. Just convince a jury that you were nervous and BANG! the guy you’re looking at is dead.

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  40. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Not one commenter has been able to see the real cause of the problem of policing in America – the evisceration of the justice system.

    We will always have cowboys for policemen – those who enjoy the process rather than work for the result – until criminals are punished rather than warehoused.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory

    We will always have cowboys for policemen
     
    Cowboys were useful members of society, bringing livestock to market.
    Please do not compare them to badge wearing thugs.

    Remember, the Earps were better known as "The Fighting Pimps", they were NOT cowboys.
  41. Avery says:
    @anarchyst
    ..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied. So much for the "illiterate, incompetent Arabs...and the "high and mighty" IDF...

    {..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied}

    There was only _one_ incursion during which IDF got badly bloodied: the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah. Were there others?

    In any case Martyanov is right: Hezbollah is not a regular Arab army.
    They are a highly disciplined guerilla force.
    Their military leadership is apparently based on meritocracy, unlike the regular Arab armies.

    In that particular war, Hezbollah had spent years building well concealed defensive positions, many on hilly terrain, which neither Israeli high-tech equipment nor their spies detected.
    IDF attacked static Hezbollah stongpoints and was mauled.
    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the ‘mythical’ Merkava.

    However, I believe IDF can still easily trounce any of Arab regular armies in an open warfare. Their AF has air-supremacy over their Arab enemies: without a powerful AF to counter it, all the ground forces of Arab armies will be destroyed out in the open.

    Read More
    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    Israel relies on the U.S. for backup and usually has the U.S. fighting its wars as in Iraq and Syria and in addition Israel gets billions in foreign aid every year from the U.S. which translates into military equipment and so Israel sucks the U.S. teat.
    , @Chris Mallory

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open,
     
    Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.
    , @MEexpert

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the ‘mythical’ Merkava.
     
    After Israel got its tender little behind kicked in Lebanon during the 2006 war, IDF was threatening a land invasion of Lebanon. Hezbollah was ready and challenged them, using George W. Bush's words; "bring them on." Needless to say, since the little behinds were still sore from spanking they got from Hezbollah, IDF decided to not try their luck.

    Israeli soldiers see Hezbollah behind every rock.
  42. Wally says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.
    In 2001 in the USA a USA friend called the police 'the internal army'.
    Since then the police has been militarised, they got armoured personnel carriers, even tanks and armour piercing ammunition.
    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens.
    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    “while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend”

    With friends like those who needs enemies?

    How’s that Muslim takeover going for you?

    Your wife, girlfriend been raped this week?

    How does that lack of free speech feel?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Wally, if that is your name,
    Do people actually visit your hate site? Who pays you to troll Unz readers? Are you in a basement somewhere?
  43. @annamaria
    The "most moral" Israeli state and its "most moral" Israeli army have got to a point of recognizing the institutionalized rot: "Last year, a top Israeli general’s comments during the country’s annual Holocaust Remembrance Day address sparked controversy when he likened the atmosphere in modern day Israel to 1930’s Nazi Germany." http://www.globalresearch.ca/idf-chief-says-israel-is-becoming-like-nazi-germany-refuses-to-back-down/5600782
    Similar to the attempts at stopping the Nazi supremacist plans by the sane and moral German officers, the sane and moral Israelis (a small minority) are trying to highlight the obvious: "If there is anything that frightens me in the remembrance of the Holocaust, it is discerning nauseating processes that took place in Europe in general, and in Germany specifically back then, 70, 80 and 90 years ago, and seeing evidence of them here among us in the year 2016,” Maj. Gen. Yair Golan, the Israeli army’s deputy chief of staff said."

    Miko Peled refers to “Judeo-Nazis.” “Course he could just be another “self loather” er sumpin.

    In any case all this should come as no surprise since, after all, there was Nazi-Zionist cooperation before and during WW2, not that the Zionists were particularly anti-Bolshie, as the Nazis most definitely were.

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  44. @Andrei Martyanov

    also have brought several hundred American generals and admirals to Israel to see how they smash Palestinians asking for justice
     
    One other (significant) point is missing--it is how IDF's combat experiences and achievements were initially blown grossly out of proportions in the US and then colored to a very large degree American military thinking. The fact that Israel's victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs was "somehow" discounted. The incessant (decades long) campaign of praise for Israel's military in US is nothing short of astonishing.

    The fact that Israel’s victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs …

    I’m not sure incompetence and illiteracy were as much factors as lack of funding.

    The incompetence permeates all hierarchies; money allows the fools to paper over their mistakes and follies. In fact, to a large extent, states themselves exist to support non-productive incompetents it seems.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I’m not sure incompetence and illiteracy were as much factors as lack of funding.
     
    What "funding". Even given world-class (granted in "monkey" versions) of Soviet weapons Arab militaries time after time failed to utilize its full potential (other than when Soviet advisers manned it)--all due to extremely low military culture. In English language I may suggest Colonel Atkine's now famous "Why Arabs Lose Wars". I know why they do so almost first hand--I have experience of communication with Soviet military advisers to Arab militaries. In fact, my naval academy had a separate Arab Faculty and some of my relatives taught them. Opinion was low. The answer to that lies in religious, cultural and economic factors. E.g. Saudi Arabia's military is staffed with shiny expensive US and European military toys--well, KSA's military is a pathetic joke. So much for funding which, in absolute dollars, is higher than that of Russia's military budget. Wanna bet how long it will take Russian Army to obliterate that of KSA's?
    , @jacques sheete

    What "funding".
     
    Exactly.

    Thank you.
  45. Jake says:
    @PiltdownMan
    In 1829, Robert Peel laid down the bedrock philosophy of policing in the Anglo-Saxon world, now called the Peelian principles. These principles would have seemed unexceptional to us even five decades ago.

    But, I daresay, they would be scoffed at by at least some of the proponents of the new philosophy of warrior-policing in America. On the other hand, some would argue that America is no longer an Anglo-Saxon society, at least not in the culture of its criminal population.


    1 The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

    2 The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

    3 Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

    4 The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

    5 Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.

    6 Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.

    7 Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    8 Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.

    9 The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

    And how did Peelers ‘act’ in Ireland? As an occupying force that spent a good deal of hours engaged in under-cover role-playing. That was true even of units composed exclusively of non-officers were native Irish born Catholics.

    Israel learned everything it knows and does about militarized police, police working hand in hand with military intelligence to spy on citizens, to redirect the activities of citizens so that they would become more complacent before the central government, from the British Empire.

    If you would like an even an earlier example of Anglo-Saxon policing, I suggest you look into the Tudor era.

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  46. @Avery
    {..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied}

    There was only _one_ incursion during which IDF got badly bloodied: the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah. Were there others?

    In any case Martyanov is right: Hezbollah is not a regular Arab army.
    They are a highly disciplined guerilla force.
    Their military leadership is apparently based on meritocracy, unlike the regular Arab armies.

    In that particular war, Hezbollah had spent years building well concealed defensive positions, many on hilly terrain, which neither Israeli high-tech equipment nor their spies detected.
    IDF attacked static Hezbollah stongpoints and was mauled.
    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the 'mythical' Merkava.

    However, I believe IDF can still easily trounce any of Arab regular armies in an open warfare. Their AF has air-supremacy over their Arab enemies: without a powerful AF to counter it, all the ground forces of Arab armies will be destroyed out in the open.

    Israel relies on the U.S. for backup and usually has the U.S. fighting its wars as in Iraq and Syria and in addition Israel gets billions in foreign aid every year from the U.S. which translates into military equipment and so Israel sucks the U.S. teat.

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  47. Avery says:
    @anarchyst
    ..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied. So much for the "illiterate, incompetent Arabs...and the "high and mighty" IDF...

    {…illiterate, incompetent Arabs….}

    Here is one example of an incompetent Arab soldier*.

    [TOW missile v T-90, direct hit: Probably first-ever footage from Syrian battleground]

    First they park a very valuable, modern tank out in the open, without concealment.
    Next, the excellent T-90 withstands the ISIS TOW-missile strike.
    Then the crewman, apparently in one piece, open the hatch and runs away – instead driving the very expensive tank the heck out of there.

    ________
    * No disrespect to SAA in general.
    Many of their men fought bravely and doggedly against overwhelming odds of ISIS invaders. Particularly those inside Kuweires air base: they were completely surrounded by the cannibals, yet fought for 3 years, until liberated.

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  48. @Beefcake the Mighty
    It's worth pointing out that police violence in America isn't directed exclusively against blacks, whose rates of violent crime are after all much higher than whites. Even against whites, whose crime rates are comparable to European rates, American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their European counterparts. American police are clearly out of control.

    And don't forget the media's role in creating a false narrative in which the only choices are underclass sociopathy on the one hand, and police state tactics on the other.

    ” American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their european counterparts”.

    American police are clearly out of control”

    Total nonsense.

    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals who had displayed mental or drug issues, and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force, such is always demanded of the US police by the european media.

    And of course since the Germans/Europeans are now the good guys, and DT’s America is the nation of the bad guys, the the media manages to explain away every case of the fatal shooting of someone in Germany/Europe, while never even considering the possibility of a justified action on behalf of the US police.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Your claims are just not believable.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

    Sure, some of those shootings are justified, but by any measure American cops are far more violent than Europeans.
    , @peterAUS
    Would you, please, post a source of those police killings in Germany?
    , @utu
    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals

    Police in Germany kill more than you think
    http://www.dw.com/en/police-in-germany-kill-more-than-you-think/a-38822484

    an average of about 10 fatal police shootings in Germany per year.
     
    10 per year as opposed to 1000 per year in the US is still 25 times lower rate per capita than in the US.

    and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force

    "The cases of death that are reported here are not like in the US, where unarmed minorities are shot," Behr said. "As a rule, there is not an intent to kill," he added.(from the article above)
     
    You are very sloppy in reporting what you read. Actually I wonder what is your reading comprehension. Ask your MENSA friends to retest you.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Escuse me for daring to question one of the greatest intellects of our time, if not ever, but how does anything that you've written validate your claim the Beefcake's comment was nonsense? Thanks.
  49. @jacques sheete

    The fact that Israel’s victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs ...
     
    I'm not sure incompetence and illiteracy were as much factors as lack of funding.

    The incompetence permeates all hierarchies; money allows the fools to paper over their mistakes and follies. In fact, to a large extent, states themselves exist to support non-productive incompetents it seems.

    I’m not sure incompetence and illiteracy were as much factors as lack of funding.

    What “funding”. Even given world-class (granted in “monkey” versions) of Soviet weapons Arab militaries time after time failed to utilize its full potential (other than when Soviet advisers manned it)–all due to extremely low military culture. In English language I may suggest Colonel Atkine’s now famous “Why Arabs Lose Wars”. I know why they do so almost first hand–I have experience of communication with Soviet military advisers to Arab militaries. In fact, my naval academy had a separate Arab Faculty and some of my relatives taught them. Opinion was low. The answer to that lies in religious, cultural and economic factors. E.g. Saudi Arabia’s military is staffed with shiny expensive US and European military toys–well, KSA’s military is a pathetic joke. So much for funding which, in absolute dollars, is higher than that of Russia’s military budget. Wanna bet how long it will take Russian Army to obliterate that of KSA’s?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Agree.

    The book "Why Arabs Lose Wars" is, IMHO, must read for anyone wanting to understand Arab military capability.

    I do have first hand experience in training of Arab military personnel.

    Nepotism, corruption, lack of hard work, lack of discipline...list goes on.
    Homosexuality............(now, that is an interesting topic with Arab societies).

    As for the IDF, well.....I've read their analysis of the debacle with Hezbollah.
    They have been working on remedying it.

    Somebody would even think that the current mess in Syria is a direct result of that.
  50. @anon
    Not one commenter has been able to see the real cause of the problem of policing in America - the evisceration of the justice system.

    We will always have cowboys for policemen - those who enjoy the process rather than work for the result - until criminals are punished rather than warehoused.

    We will always have cowboys for policemen

    Cowboys were useful members of society, bringing livestock to market.
    Please do not compare them to badge wearing thugs.

    Remember, the Earps were better known as “The Fighting Pimps”, they were NOT cowboys.

    Read More
  51. @Avery
    {..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied}

    There was only _one_ incursion during which IDF got badly bloodied: the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah. Were there others?

    In any case Martyanov is right: Hezbollah is not a regular Arab army.
    They are a highly disciplined guerilla force.
    Their military leadership is apparently based on meritocracy, unlike the regular Arab armies.

    In that particular war, Hezbollah had spent years building well concealed defensive positions, many on hilly terrain, which neither Israeli high-tech equipment nor their spies detected.
    IDF attacked static Hezbollah stongpoints and was mauled.
    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the 'mythical' Merkava.

    However, I believe IDF can still easily trounce any of Arab regular armies in an open warfare. Their AF has air-supremacy over their Arab enemies: without a powerful AF to counter it, all the ground forces of Arab armies will be destroyed out in the open.

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open,

    Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Yes, the statement reminds me of Americans whining about the Vietnamese not fighting "fair".
    , @Avery
    {Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.}

    Correct.

    But the Arab armies would _have_ to do battle out in the open with IDF, in order to liberate or take territory. Obviously I wasn't suggesting that Hezbollah do that.
    But the original evaluation of Arab armies by poster Martyanov stands, doesn't it?
    Notwithstanding the well earned victory by Hezbollah, skillfully defending expertly prepared _defensive_ positions.

  52. @Authenticjazzman
    " American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their european counterparts".

    American police are clearly out of control"

    Total nonsense.

    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals who had displayed mental or drug issues, and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force, such is always demanded of the US police by the european media.

    And of course since the Germans/Europeans are now the good guys, and DT's America is the nation of the bad guys, the the media manages to explain away every case of the fatal shooting of someone in Germany/Europe, while never even considering the possibility of a justified action on behalf of the US police.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

    Your claims are just not believable.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

    Sure, some of those shootings are justified, but by any measure American cops are far more violent than Europeans.

    Read More
  53. @Chris Mallory

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open,
     
    Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.

    Yes, the statement reminds me of Americans whining about the Vietnamese not fighting “fair”.

    Read More
  54. @jacques sheete

    The fact that Israel’s victories were achieved over supremely incompetent and, to a very large extent illiterate, Arabs ...
     
    I'm not sure incompetence and illiteracy were as much factors as lack of funding.

    The incompetence permeates all hierarchies; money allows the fools to paper over their mistakes and follies. In fact, to a large extent, states themselves exist to support non-productive incompetents it seems.

    What “funding”.

    Exactly.

    Thank you.

    Read More
  55. Mr. Giraldi,

    I read zero comments and I want to say thanks for providing such valuable thought!

    One question though?

    Does CIA & FBI train with Mossad?

    Read More
    • Replies: @in the middle
    Mr. Chuck, comments are what make worth reading the article.
  56. @PiltdownMan
    In 1829, Robert Peel laid down the bedrock philosophy of policing in the Anglo-Saxon world, now called the Peelian principles. These principles would have seemed unexceptional to us even five decades ago.

    But, I daresay, they would be scoffed at by at least some of the proponents of the new philosophy of warrior-policing in America. On the other hand, some would argue that America is no longer an Anglo-Saxon society, at least not in the culture of its criminal population.


    1 The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

    2 The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

    3 Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

    4 The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

    5 Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.

    6 Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.

    7 Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    8 Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.

    9 The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

    I was in law enforcement for eleven years. I removed myself from it when I considered too brutal and biased. In several occasions I over heard other police officers talking about their actions and how they enjoyed scaring people with a joyous laugh. I found it disturbing and malicious. I left. Make no mistake, the police brutality will seize when the large part of whites refuse to be blind to the excessive of abuses committed in their name by a police force out of control. A police State was created thanks to people’s disregard to see what is happening to out nation brutalized by its police force. I have not experienced any abuse by any police officer anywhere, but what I see with police officers videotaped abusing citizens is a disgrace. Worst yet, is that they KNOW that they will get away with it. It is high time to bring this abusers to justice, but won’t happen until the masonic fraternal order of police is found accountable for defending this evil that is spreading like wild fire. Now with the judaics involved, will get worst. Also it is high time to place these organizations in their place. Yes, they are powerful, but so was the Roman empire, and so was the British empire. Time to empower the Sherriff’s departments to corral and put in place the city PDs. Sadly, the majority of Americans are so dumb down, that once they are called anti this or anti that, their brain ceases to work, and are frightened and paralyzed to do anything, besides whine and snivel about their fears.

    Read More
  57. And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    I guess, you did not read the article. The Australian lady was not a criminal, at all. I guess the cop, who by his name I assume is a Muslim, finally had his chance at killing a white, thinking was an American woman. Mohammed knew that cops kill all the time and get away with, why no kill a white American? well, it seems he is getting away with it, since he refuses to be interviewed for his crime, a privilege the non cops have not, such right. This time, finally we find out that cops not only shoot and kill minorities, now the whities are in their sights also. so Whites, its high time YOU stop defending the killer cops, and see that minorities are not their only target. Once pale faces start realizing that them defending those killer cops, then probably, yes, probably the impunity of those thugs starts to get under control. Hopefully the masonic fraternal order of police then realizes, that the public will not longer tolerate their atrocities, and impunities. By the way, I was in law enforcement for eleven years.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Catch up:

    'Analysis of Washington Post police-shootings data reveals surprising result – nearly 2x more whites than blacks shot by police'
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/18/analysis-of-washington-post-police-shootings-data-reveals-surprising-result/

  58. @ChuckOrloski
    Mr. Giraldi,

    I read zero comments and I want to say thanks for providing such valuable thought!

    One question though?

    Does CIA & FBI train with Mossad?

    Mr. Chuck, comments are what make worth reading the article.

    Read More
  59. @Buzz Mohawk

    It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.
     
    This is nothing new.

    What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.

    Any time humans have power over others, that power needs to be limited and counterbalanced. This is always an issue with police forces. Anybody who's lived a little has seen examples, going way back, of how hard it is to maintain this balance.

    Some people are just newly aware of this eternal issue now because cops have more toys and everything looks like it was built for Darth Vader.

    As for the non-sequitur in this case, Israel, it is a good place to learn how to keep unwanted people out of your country (clue: walls work) and how to profile those among whom criminals operate. It is where one can unlearn American political correctness with regard to law enforcement. The key again is balance -- between learning what is useful, and leaving out the abuses which, yes yes yes, we all know exist.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again. Re-learning good manners would help them grease the wheels with cops too.

    the Australian lady failed to re-learn that American cops are killers! I guess. She should have not called 911; did so at her own peril. Americans are learning that now as in the old west, we need to arm ourselves and take care of the issue at hand, since calling for police assistance, can be their last actions on earth. God bless Florida for the stand your ground law. Once we all have that all over the country, then those thuggish cops will be irrelevant. We do need to support our sheriff departments: They are well respected and with good reason. Sheriffs are for the most part not in the killing innocents business.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Noor was not an American policeman. He was an inbred, 85-IQ, Muslim affirmative action hire wearing a police uniform.
  60. One Tribe says:
    @Rurik

    Please note the remarkable similarities between the ongoing flippant murder of Palestinians (in their native land), and the eerily similar murders of ‘coloureds’ in the U.S.A.; they have the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.
     
    good lord

    talk about bass akwards

    when's the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj_6GFIxBsY

    if this isn't Michael Brown, it certainly could be, since we all saw the video of him throttling that little store keep for objecting to Brown stealing from him.

    If anything, it's the old man that resembles a Palestinian, and the thug your typical Israeli, brutalizing and stealing from them with a sense of entitlement.

    as our society becomes increasingly crass and disharmonious, as we become more and more diverse, this is all part of the plan. ((They)) want strife and ethnic hatred- so it will predictably cause problems and crime and social unraveling, leading to riots and death, so that they'll have the excuse to bring in the uniformed thugs to 'restore order', 'Israeli style'.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwqqlaXUcAAzYrZ.jpg

    pretending that Michael Brown was a model citizen who was gunned down for being black by a racist white cop, plays into their schemes by dividing the nation on racial grounds, and instilling a sense of grievance in the black and brown community, and creating hostility and resentment, that will lead to more of the same.

    The truth is that a LOT of young black (and brown and some white of course) men are vicious criminals, who wallow in a culture of "thug life", celebrated by our former president Obama as his cultural icons

    http://hw-img.datpiff.com/m9d3ab6a/Jay-Z_International_Gangster-front-large.jpg

    and heralded by ((Hollywood and the media)) as the second coming ..

    .. to create a nation of violent, career criminals and the terrorized citizens (of all races) clamoring for the police to 'protect them'

    .. is all part of the plan to divide and conquer

    Ehud Barak said it best at 3:56 to 4:07

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Zj1fnGtjk

    we live in a new time now. Every simple step that an American wants to make is now going to be "more complicated". Crossing a border or going on a plane, the American people are now going to be treated like the Palestinians that they are. And if they resist...

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwqqlaXUcAAzYrZ.jpg

    Thank you for your comment.
    I`m not certain that I understand your point.

    when’s the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?

    I am referring to the treatment by the cops (domestic occupation army), and :

    the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.

    and,
    treatment in by the media-propaganda agency.

    I am NOT trying to suggest that there are thugs (all colours) who are more deserving of the full measure of the law, but in a land supposedly governed by laws, all should be equal under them.
    This is of course the whole point, there is multi-tiered and arbitrary enforcement.

    Though I am not disagreeing with what I think you suggest, that the entire out-group (x-jews and other 1% financial elites), will eventually receive similar rights before the system.

    I hope this clarifies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik


    when’s the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?
     
    I am referring to the treatment by the cops (domestic occupation army),
     
    OK, but the Palestinians are being treated a whole hell of a lot worse than Americas blacks are, and for a tiny fraction of the infractions. American blacks are often super-criminals, and are encouraged to be by the exact same elements in the media and PTB that are putting it to the Palestinians. To our media, the Palestinians are all guilty and congenital terrorists. Conversely, the blacks are all eternal victims of white racism and never do anything criminal or wrong that isn't a direct consequence of white racism. So there's a rather glaring chasm between the two peoples. But I will admit that both have their grievances, even if the Pals are the most oppressed people imaginable considering it's America that is causing it all, whereas the American blacks are some of the most coddled people there are.

    but in a land supposedly governed by laws, all should be equal under them.

     

    tell that to this working class white guy who is told that he is a second class citizens when it comes to jobs or promotions or university slots because of his race. I'm sure there are blacks that are victims of prejudice and discrimination, but only white guys have it all codified in law against them.

    This is of course the whole point, there is multi-tiered and arbitrary enforcement.
     
    you'd have to get more specific than that. It sounds very vague and SJW-like

    I hope this clarifies.

     

    sort of, I think

    thanks as well for your reply

    cheers
  61. Avery says:
    @Chris Mallory

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open,
     
    Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.

    {Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.}

    Correct.

    But the Arab armies would _have_ to do battle out in the open with IDF, in order to liberate or take territory. Obviously I wasn’t suggesting that Hezbollah do that.
    But the original evaluation of Arab armies by poster Martyanov stands, doesn’t it?
    Notwithstanding the well earned victory by Hezbollah, skillfully defending expertly prepared _defensive_ positions.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Reading these comments it would appear that Israel could have a rational fear that Iran - and Assad - through Hezbollah would ratchet up the rocket attacks on Israel to provoke retaiation which might mean a Verdun for the attacking IDF. (As I consider the casually chosen "Verdun" I see it as worrying for Israel because of the demographics. Roughly equal casualties on each side is a big loss for Israel). So....

    Suddenly I am getting somewhere near understanding the Israeli obsession with Iran and the logic of destroying the Iranian connection to Hezbollah by destroying Assad. That doesn't explain how they got simple souls (ex McKinsey with a First from Oxford) to line up to destroy Assad but, setting such peripherals aside as presumably peripheral, it does lead to Israeli interest in dealing with Russia and/or Turkey to provide a post war environment where Hezbollah are no longer supported to attack Israel. That would be all the more important now that Hezbollah has had lots of experience of war in Syria.

    Could so much turn on the Iran-Alawite-Hezbollah connection? Presumably the Iranians would seek to build up in Gaza too the means for Hamas to create at least some kind of second front or diversion from Gaza just as the IDF geared up to take on Hezbollah.
    , @Talha
    Yo Avery,

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
     
    Yup - when you have zero air force assets, that's about the stupidest thing one can do.

    Your (and other's) assessment of Arab armies is pretty spot on - the Muslim world is probably not going to do well on the offense in any situation at this point unless against a totally over-matched opponent. Even this is a toss up - look at Saudi's disastrous war in Yemen (then again, Egypt didn't do well there either a few decades ago). But Hezbollah and other irregular forces have shown that a well-planned defense to make the enemy pay dearly for each inch of territory is the way to go. And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something), then basically nobody will willingly send their people into a meat-grinder where Muslim volunteers from all over the world are pouring in. This is an excellent moral position to be in when it comes to war.

    Peace.
  62. chris says:
    @Rurik

    Please note the remarkable similarities between the ongoing flippant murder of Palestinians (in their native land), and the eerily similar murders of ‘coloureds’ in the U.S.A.; they have the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.
     
    good lord

    talk about bass akwards

    when's the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj_6GFIxBsY

    if this isn't Michael Brown, it certainly could be, since we all saw the video of him throttling that little store keep for objecting to Brown stealing from him.

    If anything, it's the old man that resembles a Palestinian, and the thug your typical Israeli, brutalizing and stealing from them with a sense of entitlement.

    as our society becomes increasingly crass and disharmonious, as we become more and more diverse, this is all part of the plan. ((They)) want strife and ethnic hatred- so it will predictably cause problems and crime and social unraveling, leading to riots and death, so that they'll have the excuse to bring in the uniformed thugs to 'restore order', 'Israeli style'.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwqqlaXUcAAzYrZ.jpg

    pretending that Michael Brown was a model citizen who was gunned down for being black by a racist white cop, plays into their schemes by dividing the nation on racial grounds, and instilling a sense of grievance in the black and brown community, and creating hostility and resentment, that will lead to more of the same.

    The truth is that a LOT of young black (and brown and some white of course) men are vicious criminals, who wallow in a culture of "thug life", celebrated by our former president Obama as his cultural icons

    http://hw-img.datpiff.com/m9d3ab6a/Jay-Z_International_Gangster-front-large.jpg

    and heralded by ((Hollywood and the media)) as the second coming ..

    .. to create a nation of violent, career criminals and the terrorized citizens (of all races) clamoring for the police to 'protect them'

    .. is all part of the plan to divide and conquer

    Ehud Barak said it best at 3:56 to 4:07

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Zj1fnGtjk

    we live in a new time now. Every simple step that an American wants to make is now going to be "more complicated". Crossing a border or going on a plane, the American people are now going to be treated like the Palestinians that they are. And if they resist...

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwqqlaXUcAAzYrZ.jpg

    Thanks Rurik for the video with Ehud Barak!

    Yeah, the world sure had fewer terrorist back then. Also a trip down memory lane is the respectful treatment of Putin and of Russia! But Iran is still #1, and not a mention of Saudi Arabia!!! Funny, even if you don’t buy the whole revisionist story, surely the channeling of moneys by the Saudis to the terrorists must have been known by the secret services, certainly after the 1992 WTC explosion.

    Very funny, after saying he, and by extension, his gov had no info about the event, he’s ready to get bin laden, and had to be whistled back by the host regarding what was public knowledge. Those guys cheering over in Jersey weren’t the only Israelis dancing that day.

    BTW I had no idea Ehud had been the voice of Elmer J. Fudd !

    Read More
    • Replies: @Druid
    911. Inside job! Israel involved!
    , @Rurik

    respectful treatment of Putin and of Russia!
     
    that was before Putin protected Syria

    he got in between a Zionist and his Golan Heights meal

    channeling of moneys by the Saudis to the terrorists
     
    I'm honestly unaware of virtually any Saudis having anything to do with 9/11 whatsoever

    I consider it a Mossad/CIA inside job, and I've spent a great deal of time on that issue

    his gov had no info about the event, he’s ready to get bin laden, and had to be whistled back by the host regarding what was public knowledge. Those guys cheering over in Jersey weren’t the only Israelis dancing that day.
     
    well said!

    It sort of riles me when I watched that clip, and saw that guy who just helped orchestrate the mass-murder of thousands of my countrymen and women so that he could lecture us on how 'nothing will be the same again, you American shmucks are now all going to be treated as Palestinians...'

    and sure enough, check points, total surveillance, police state thuggery, and even a permanent torture camp. Oy veh ! Now send in the shaygetz and shiksas to die for Israel !
  63. https://www.rt.com/usa/397493-minneapolis-police-sign-shooting/

    Fake street signs warning Twin City residents to beware of police have been erected following the killing of an unarmed woman by a Minneapolis officer.

    Read More
  64. annamaria says:
    @David
    And as if on cue, Judith Miller at City Journal writes:

    The numbers are impressive. In 2015, there were 33 stabbings in [Jerusalem]; this year, until the latest violence, there have been just six. In 2015, Jerusalem reported six deaths due to deliberate car-rammings; this year, one person has died in such incidents. While 43 terrorist attacks occurred in the city in 2015, only eight so far have taken place in 2017. Within the past year, stone-throwing incidents have dropped by 15 percent. Despite the Temple Mount attack, “these are dramatic reductions,” Halevy said.

    Such a record under the most challenging of circumstances holds potentially valuable lessons for other cities targeted by terror.
     

    Seems that the true descendants of Maccabees have been trying to protect their ancestral lands from the Soviet imposters (and before that from the German Jews enamored with the romantic ideas of German nationalism). It is amazing to what extent people lose their sanity when they convince themselves in “chosenness.” Think of the birth of terrorism in Israel.
    “At least three Israeli Prime Ministers have been involved in campaigns of terror.
    Menachem Begin was the commander of the terrorist group that blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing 96 people. He was Israeli Prime Minister in the ’70s and ’80s. He once described a massacre as “a splendid act of conquest”.
    Yitzak Shamir was Prime Minister until 1992. He had been a leader of a Jewish group called the Stern Gang which carried out a string of assassinations.
    Ariel Sharon was found indirectly, but personally, responsible for a civilian massacre by Lebanese militia in two Palestinian refugee camps. At least 800 innocent men, women and children were murdered in cold blood, most of them Palestinians, after Sharon ordered his men to allow the militiamen access to the camps.” https://www.countercurrents.org/pa-pilger110903.htm
    These numbers fade, of course, in the face of the ongoing slaughter in the Middle East. Iraq, Libya, and Syria have been dealt with already; Iran is the next target of ziocons. The US is a hapless host providing money and cannon fodder for the Eretz Israel project
    A minor detail: “In December 1940, Lehi [Stern Gang] contacted Germany with a proposal to aid German conquest in the Middle East in return for recognition of a Jewish state open to unlimited immigration” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
    No wonder that the local indigenous population is apprehensive about Jewish emigres from Europe, the former USSR, and the US.

    Read More
  65. Z-man says:

    Disturbing developments.
    I remember, way back, post 911, when the hymie mayor of Hymie town, Bloomberg, sent his jar head muldoon police commissioner Kelly to Israel to show solidarity with a town that was coming under rocket fire from Gaza. Nauseating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    "Rockets", aka: fire crackers ... fired by who?

    The True Cost of Parasite Israel
    Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/

    Israel's Dirty Little Secret
    How it drives US policies exploiting a spineless Congress and White House
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-dirty-little-secret/

    How to Bring Down the Elephant in the Room
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/how-to-bring-down-the-elephant-in-the-room/

    Israeli occupied territories
    https://codoh.com/media/files/cartoon24s.png

  66. “…the CIA and FBI together know far more about terrorists and how they behave than do the ideologically driven Mossad and Shin Beth.”

    INDEED!

    Jewish doctrine, not race or D.N.A., causes Jews to steal. Jewish children
    are encouraged to take away by force the toys of non-Jewish children. Of
    course, when they grow up they have the Torah and Talmud to justify taking
    away by force the wealth, the land, and even the lives of non-Jews. Jewish
    children must learn that taking away by force the toys of non-Jews is a
    NO-NO. Right now because of their doctrine Jews are too stupid to
    understand that when they take away by force that which is precious to
    non-Jews, some non-Jews will retaliate. For more than 3,500 years Jews
    have been unable to figure out human nature. Because they justify taking
    away by force even the lives of non-Jews they know only one thing which is
    drummed into their dumbed down heads starting in the Book of Genesis: Fear
    equals love. Over and over again Jews’ heads are fucked with examples of
    having to love G_d because Jews have to fear G_d. For more than 3,500
    years Jews have applied their psychopathology to non-Jews and for more than
    3,500 years they have been expelled from non-Jews’ land and society,
    segregated into ghettos, and had anti-Semitic laws passed against them.
    Some very evil non-Jews recently murdered and tortured nearly 6,000,000
    Jews during the Holocaust. Yet, Jews, except Reform Jews, and a few
    others, continue to be totally clueless about human nature. Keeping It
    Simple Stupid: “Stop stealing from non-Jews.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Druid
    6 million is a hoax number. Jews were killed and brutalized along with Gypsies, Soviets, others, but this 6M BS goes back a hundred tears before WW2
    , @ChuckOrloski
    Hey Human Nature,

    To theorise that CIA & FBI know far more about. terrorist behavior than Mossad and Shn Beth seems to neglect inconvenient facts to suit a wishful theory.

    That's human nature too, eh Human Nature?
    , @Wizard of Oz
    "Except Reform Jews" makes a rather important hole in your thesis doesn't it.? That means most Amweican Jews. How do you class the secular lefties who founded most of the early kibbbutzim? I imagine they should be classed with Reform despite a grat range of Orthodox and Hasidic backgrounds.
  67. Druid says:
    @Sherman
    Israel does indeed offer great training for its security forces and police. Israel is more than willing to share this knowledge with its friends around the world.

    I've been studying Krav Maga for over a decade and it's an awesome form of self-defense and exercise.

    One of the guys I practice with is a police officer (a big Irish Catholic dude). His department sent him to Israel for intensive training in Krav Maga and Israeli police tactics. He told me it was an incredible experience.

    This guy is even more pro-Israel than I am!

    Both Ziofascists, then!

    Read More
  68. Druid says:
    @chris
    Thanks Rurik for the video with Ehud Barak!

    Yeah, the world sure had fewer terrorist back then. Also a trip down memory lane is the respectful treatment of Putin and of Russia! But Iran is still #1, and not a mention of Saudi Arabia!!! Funny, even if you don't buy the whole revisionist story, surely the channeling of moneys by the Saudis to the terrorists must have been known by the secret services, certainly after the 1992 WTC explosion.

    Very funny, after saying he, and by extension, his gov had no info about the event, he's ready to get bin laden, and had to be whistled back by the host regarding what was public knowledge. Those guys cheering over in Jersey weren't the only Israelis dancing that day.

    BTW I had no idea Ehud had been the voice of Elmer J. Fudd !

    911. Inside job! Israel involved!

    Read More
  69. Druid says:
    @Human_Nature
    "...the CIA and FBI together know far more about terrorists and how they behave than do the ideologically driven Mossad and Shin Beth."

    INDEED!

    Jewish doctrine, not race or D.N.A., causes Jews to steal. Jewish children
    are encouraged to take away by force the toys of non-Jewish children. Of
    course, when they grow up they have the Torah and Talmud to justify taking
    away by force the wealth, the land, and even the lives of non-Jews. Jewish
    children must learn that taking away by force the toys of non-Jews is a
    NO-NO. Right now because of their doctrine Jews are too stupid to
    understand that when they take away by force that which is precious to
    non-Jews, some non-Jews will retaliate. For more than 3,500 years Jews
    have been unable to figure out human nature. Because they justify taking
    away by force even the lives of non-Jews they know only one thing which is
    drummed into their dumbed down heads starting in the Book of Genesis: Fear
    equals love. Over and over again Jews' heads are fucked with examples of
    having to love G_d because Jews have to fear G_d. For more than 3,500
    years Jews have applied their psychopathology to non-Jews and for more than
    3,500 years they have been expelled from non-Jews' land and society,
    segregated into ghettos, and had anti-Semitic laws passed against them.
    Some very evil non-Jews recently murdered and tortured nearly 6,000,000
    Jews during the Holocaust. Yet, Jews, except Reform Jews, and a few
    others, continue to be totally clueless about human nature. Keeping It
    Simple Stupid: "Stop stealing from non-Jews."

    6 million is a hoax number. Jews were killed and brutalized along with Gypsies, Soviets, others, but this 6M BS goes back a hundred tears before WW2

    Read More
    • Replies: @Z-man
    In the context of the 'holy-caust' it didn't come into fashion until the late sixties/early seventies. Clever, sneaky race.
  70. It would not take much effort to nationalize the nation’s city and state police forces. A considerable amount of work has already been accomplished in standardizing police equipment and training throughout the country. With a nationalized police force, Federalized national guard units, and the US Army, ordinary citizens would be helpless if these forces were arrayed against them regardless how many individual weapons the citizens might possess.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory

    With a nationalized police force, Federalized national guard units, and the US Army, ordinary citizens would be helpless if these forces were arrayed against them regardless how many individual weapons the citizens might possess.
     
    All of those groups add up to roughly 3-3.5 million men. Armed citizens would vastly outnumber them. If just 3% of the population decided to resist, that would be 9 million people. 9 million "rebels" who speak the language, know the customs, and can swim through the general population like fish in the sea.


    Those tank and drone drivers have to eat, sleep, and crap sometime.
    , @mr meener
    means nothing the weapons they got cause local guys know where the cops and military guys families are. that is their giant weakness
    , @SteveRogers42
    When you're running the numbers, don't forget that females with zero combat capability make up a sizeable percentage of both U.S. police and military. Also, the raw numbers for the armed forces don't reflect that the majority of uniformed "servicemembers" are noncombat support personnel, who have received rudimentary firearms training in Basic, but who simply work as uniformed boxpushers and bottle washers in order to get the proverbial "three hots and a cot".

    For a real treat, go to your local base someday and watch the unwed enlisted moms waddling around in their baggy BDUs. Intimidation Factor: Zero.
  71. @Human_Nature
    "...the CIA and FBI together know far more about terrorists and how they behave than do the ideologically driven Mossad and Shin Beth."

    INDEED!

    Jewish doctrine, not race or D.N.A., causes Jews to steal. Jewish children
    are encouraged to take away by force the toys of non-Jewish children. Of
    course, when they grow up they have the Torah and Talmud to justify taking
    away by force the wealth, the land, and even the lives of non-Jews. Jewish
    children must learn that taking away by force the toys of non-Jews is a
    NO-NO. Right now because of their doctrine Jews are too stupid to
    understand that when they take away by force that which is precious to
    non-Jews, some non-Jews will retaliate. For more than 3,500 years Jews
    have been unable to figure out human nature. Because they justify taking
    away by force even the lives of non-Jews they know only one thing which is
    drummed into their dumbed down heads starting in the Book of Genesis: Fear
    equals love. Over and over again Jews' heads are fucked with examples of
    having to love G_d because Jews have to fear G_d. For more than 3,500
    years Jews have applied their psychopathology to non-Jews and for more than
    3,500 years they have been expelled from non-Jews' land and society,
    segregated into ghettos, and had anti-Semitic laws passed against them.
    Some very evil non-Jews recently murdered and tortured nearly 6,000,000
    Jews during the Holocaust. Yet, Jews, except Reform Jews, and a few
    others, continue to be totally clueless about human nature. Keeping It
    Simple Stupid: "Stop stealing from non-Jews."

    Hey Human Nature,

    To theorise that CIA & FBI know far more about. terrorist behavior than Mossad and Shn Beth seems to neglect inconvenient facts to suit a wishful theory.

    That’s human nature too, eh Human Nature?

    Read More
  72. Rurik says: • Website
    @One Tribe
    Thank you for your comment.
    I`m not certain that I understand your point.

    when’s the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?
     
    I am referring to the treatment by the cops (domestic occupation army), and :

    the same disadvantage in accessing societal institutions, similar discrimination, etc.
     
    and,
    treatment in by the media-propaganda agency.

    I am NOT trying to suggest that there are thugs (all colours) who are more deserving of the full measure of the law, but in a land supposedly governed by laws, all should be equal under them.
    This is of course the whole point, there is multi-tiered and arbitrary enforcement.

    Though I am not disagreeing with what I think you suggest, that the entire out-group (x-jews and other 1% financial elites), will eventually receive similar rights before the system.

    I hope this clarifies.

    when’s the last time you saw a Palestinian act like this?

    I am referring to the treatment by the cops (domestic occupation army),

    OK, but the Palestinians are being treated a whole hell of a lot worse than Americas blacks are, and for a tiny fraction of the infractions. American blacks are often super-criminals, and are encouraged to be by the exact same elements in the media and PTB that are putting it to the Palestinians. To our media, the Palestinians are all guilty and congenital terrorists. Conversely, the blacks are all eternal victims of white racism and never do anything criminal or wrong that isn’t a direct consequence of white racism. So there’s a rather glaring chasm between the two peoples. But I will admit that both have their grievances, even if the Pals are the most oppressed people imaginable considering it’s America that is causing it all, whereas the American blacks are some of the most coddled people there are.

    but in a land supposedly governed by laws, all should be equal under them.

    tell that to this working class white guy who is told that he is a second class citizens when it comes to jobs or promotions or university slots because of his race. I’m sure there are blacks that are victims of prejudice and discrimination, but only white guys have it all codified in law against them.

    This is of course the whole point, there is multi-tiered and arbitrary enforcement.

    you’d have to get more specific than that. It sounds very vague and SJW-like

    I hope this clarifies.

    sort of, I think

    thanks as well for your reply

    cheers

    Read More
  73. Tony says:

    Hey giraldi, do they actually pay you for writing this bullshit?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Do they pay you for yours?
    , @SteveRogers42
    Giraldi and others need to realize that these trips to Israel are not "training", and they have absolutely no impact on American police procedures, which are governed by statute and case law. These trips are PR junkets for Chief and Captain-level administrators, who watch some dog-and-pony shows in the morning and then enjoy the Mediterranean sun-sand-'n-surf for the rest of the day. The well-tanned Admin pogues don't come back and start giving innovative firearms and defensive tactics training based on their Israeli experiences, and if they did, they would be quickly reprimanded, since all use-of-force training is overseen by state commissions which are very jealous of their legal mandate to set standards.

    All that happens is that los jefes grandes are then able to add a high-speed "Israeli CT class" to their cv's, which gives them a leg up in the promotion process.
  74. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anarchyst
    You are correct. Not all in the U S Congress are jews. However, AIPAC, and other jewish organizations have such a stranglehold over the American political and election process, that it is almost impossible to get elected if AIPAC or other jewish organizations are against you.
    As to "dual citizenship", there are forty or so congressmen who hold dual citizenship with Israel. Add to that, the thousands of "policy wonks" infecting the U S government who also hold "dual citizenship" with Israel. THAT, my friends, is a real problem, as they influence the "lawmakers" as well as having the ability to interact with the "movers and shakers" who see only one thing--the accumulation of shekels...

    Dual citizenship is not likely to change. For all the hand wringing and schreying, nothing will change in Washington because there is no force to compel a change. The corruption is so thorough and the payoffs so widespread to keep the right people benefiting from the system. Congress is corrupt and has been for decades. That is human nature at least American nature. Problems you identify, but solutions are scarce on the ground.

    Read More
  75. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Wally
    "while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend"

    With friends like those who needs enemies?

    How's that Muslim takeover going for you?

    Your wife, girlfriend been raped this week?

    How does that lack of free speech feel?

    Wally, if that is your name,
    Do people actually visit your hate site? Who pays you to troll Unz readers? Are you in a basement somewhere?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    And I guess that 'anonymous' is YOUR name. LOL!!

    Yeah boy, what a walking cliche' you are.
    You talk like someone who knows the 'holocaust' is BS and then tries to intimidate people from engaging in free speech about it.

    I assume you mean The CODOH Revisionist Forum, http://forum.codoh.com, which is not mine, but is the most read 'holocau$t' debunking site in the world.

    Hurts don't it.

    If you have a pair, try it out and get schooled.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    And why do so many people like you want '6M Jews & 5M others' to be dead?
    Revisionists don't.
    Revisionists bring good news, Jews like you should be elated.


    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
     
  76. Rurik says: • Website
    @chris
    Thanks Rurik for the video with Ehud Barak!

    Yeah, the world sure had fewer terrorist back then. Also a trip down memory lane is the respectful treatment of Putin and of Russia! But Iran is still #1, and not a mention of Saudi Arabia!!! Funny, even if you don't buy the whole revisionist story, surely the channeling of moneys by the Saudis to the terrorists must have been known by the secret services, certainly after the 1992 WTC explosion.

    Very funny, after saying he, and by extension, his gov had no info about the event, he's ready to get bin laden, and had to be whistled back by the host regarding what was public knowledge. Those guys cheering over in Jersey weren't the only Israelis dancing that day.

    BTW I had no idea Ehud had been the voice of Elmer J. Fudd !

    respectful treatment of Putin and of Russia!

    that was before Putin protected Syria

    he got in between a Zionist and his Golan Heights meal

    channeling of moneys by the Saudis to the terrorists

    I’m honestly unaware of virtually any Saudis having anything to do with 9/11 whatsoever

    I consider it a Mossad/CIA inside job, and I’ve spent a great deal of time on that issue

    his gov had no info about the event, he’s ready to get bin laden, and had to be whistled back by the host regarding what was public knowledge. Those guys cheering over in Jersey weren’t the only Israelis dancing that day.

    well said!

    It sort of riles me when I watched that clip, and saw that guy who just helped orchestrate the mass-murder of thousands of my countrymen and women so that he could lecture us on how ‘nothing will be the same again, you American shmucks are now all going to be treated as Palestinians…’

    and sure enough, check points, total surveillance, police state thuggery, and even a permanent torture camp. Oy veh ! Now send in the shaygetz and shiksas to die for Israel !

    Read More
  77. @Simply Simon
    It would not take much effort to nationalize the nation's city and state police forces. A considerable amount of work has already been accomplished in standardizing police equipment and training throughout the country. With a nationalized police force, Federalized national guard units, and the US Army, ordinary citizens would be helpless if these forces were arrayed against them regardless how many individual weapons the citizens might possess.

    With a nationalized police force, Federalized national guard units, and the US Army, ordinary citizens would be helpless if these forces were arrayed against them regardless how many individual weapons the citizens might possess.

    All of those groups add up to roughly 3-3.5 million men. Armed citizens would vastly outnumber them. If just 3% of the population decided to resist, that would be 9 million people. 9 million “rebels” who speak the language, know the customs, and can swim through the general population like fish in the sea.

    Those tank and drone drivers have to eat, sleep, and crap sometime.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    These 9 million rebels would be hard put with their limited firepower against tanks, grenades, artillery, and fighter-bomber aircraft to name a few of the serious weapons which would be available to the Federales standing army of 3.5 million. Actually no contest. The best the nine million could do would be to fight a guerrilla type war, but the guerrillas still need to be resupplied.
  78. Wally says: • Website
    @anonymous
    Wally, if that is your name,
    Do people actually visit your hate site? Who pays you to troll Unz readers? Are you in a basement somewhere?

    And I guess that ‘anonymous’ is YOUR name. LOL!!

    Yeah boy, what a walking cliche’ you are.
    You talk like someone who knows the ‘holocaust’ is BS and then tries to intimidate people from engaging in free speech about it.

    I assume you mean The CODOH Revisionist Forum, http://forum.codoh.com, which is not mine, but is the most read ‘holocau$t’ debunking site in the world.

    Hurts don’t it.

    If you have a pair, try it out and get schooled.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

    And why do so many people like you want ’6M Jews & 5M others’ to be dead?
    Revisionists don’t.
    Revisionists bring good news, Jews like you should be elated.

    The ‘holocaust’ storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    If I understand correctly, Germar Rudolf runs CODOH now. imo Rudolf is one of the most courageous men on the planet.

    I've read much of his "Lectures on the Holocaust" http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1&page_id=15
    Just last weekend I read the section where Rudolf and his audience/interlocutors discuss how Germans were tortured -- a large percentage of men had testicles destroyed; Lenhi Riefenstahl was raped -- to extract or coerce 'confessions' .

    Another tactic used to coerce a 'confession' was to threaten to turn the defendant over to Russians.
    From a DVD/documentary titled "The Ritchie Boys," about young German Jews who came to USA and enlisted in Army, were trained at Fort Ritchie, Maryland (near Camp David) in espionage and interrogation techniques, etc.; were a primary source for the tons of documents US stole from Germany that became the basis for books such as Wm. Shirer's "Rise & Fall of the Third Reich" as well as the database from which Nuremberg prosecutors cherry-picked evidence against German defendants -- Germans were not given access to the documents, and some -- many -- were fraudulent or distorted.

    The "Ritchie Boys" docu stated that those German Jews became key members of the prosecution team at Nuremberg trials, including interrogation of defendants.

    Rudolf's "Lectures" states that:

    "Similarly extorted testimonies must have existed by the thousands after the war. There is the case of Friedrich Gaus from the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, whose testimony was extorted by Allied prosecutor Robert Kempner by threatening to hand him over to the Russians, should he be unwil- ling to comply. The case of Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski is similar to this.274 Fritz Sauckel, the Plenipotentiary for the Labor Service who was sentenced to death at Nuremberg, signed a self-incriminating statement only after being told that his wife and ten children would otherwise be handed over to the Russians. fn275" p. 329
     
    Elsewhere, Rudolf quotes

    "Edward L. van Roden, who served in World War II as U.S. Chief of the Military Justice Division for the European Theater. Together with Justice Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court, van Roden was appointed in 1948 to another extraordinary commission charged with investigating the claims of abuse during U.S. trials in Dachau. Here is an excerpt of what he wrote (Roden 1949, pp. 21f.):
    “AMERICAN investigators at the U. S. Court in Dachau, Germany, used the following methods to obtain confessions: Beatings and brutal kickings. Knocking out teeth and breaking jaws. Mock trials. Solitary confinement. Posturing as priests. Very limited rations. Spiritual deprivation. Promises of acquittal. [...] We won the war, but some of us want to go on killing. That seems to me wicked. [...] The American prohibition of hear-say evidence had been suspended. Second and third-hand testimony was admitted, [...] Lt Perl of the Prosecution pleaded that it was difficult to obtain competent evi- dence. Perl told the court, ‘We had a tough case to crack and we had to use persuasive methods.’ He admitted to the court that the persuasive methods included various ‘expedients, including some violence and mock trials.’ He further told the court that the cases rested on statements obtained by such methods. [...] The statements which were admitted as evidence were ob- tained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four, and, five months. They were confined between four walls, with no win- dows, and no opportunity of exercise. Two meals a day were shoved in to them through a slot in the door. They were not allowed to talk to anyone. They had no communication with their families or any minister or priest during that time. [...] Our investigators would put a black hood over the ac- cused’s head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him, and beat him with rubber hose. Many of the German defendants had teeth knocked out. Some had their jaws broken. All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was Standard Operating Procedure with American investigators. Perl admitted use of mock trials and persuasive methods including violence and said the court was free to decide the weight to be attached to evidence thus received. But it all went in.
    One 18 year old defendant, after a series of beatings, was writing a state- ment being dictated to him. When they reached the 16th page, the boy was locked up for the night. In the early morning, Germans in nearby cells heard him muttering. ‘I will not utter another lie.’ When the jailer came in later to get him to finish his false statement, he found the German hanging from a cell bar, dead. However the statement that the German had hanged himself to escape signing was offered and received in evidence in the trial of the others.
    Sometimes a prisoner who refused to sign was led into a dimly lit room, where a group of civilian investigators, wearing U. S. Army uniforms, were seated around a black table with a crucifix in the center and two candles burning, one on each aide. ‘You will now have your American trial,’ the de- fendant was told.
    The sham court passed a sham sentence of death. Then the accused was told, ‘You will hang in a few days, as soon as the general approves this sentence: but in the meantime sign this confession and we can get you acquitted.’ Some still wouldn’t sign. [...]
    In another case, a bogus Catholic priest (actually an investigator) entered the cell of one of the defendants, heard his confession, gave him absolution, and then gave him a little friendly tip: ‘Sign whatever the investigators ask you to sign. It will get you your freedom. Even though it’s false, I can give you absolution now in advance for the lie you’d tell.’”

     
    This is significant because in The Ritchie Boys docu, first of all, the Jewish men express how they acted out of hate [in contrast, GIs posted to post-war Germany, on the other hand, relate in numerous interviews that they believed the Germans had suffered enough, that they were good people, and the GIs felt friendly toward them]. S
    Second, in the docu several of the Jewish spies laugh about how they dreamed up and carried out precisely those sorts of activities; how they frightened German soldiers into doing their bidding by threatening to turn them over to Russians, or by dressing up one of their Ritchie boy colleagues as a Russian and subjecting Germans to a mock interrogation. https://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/The-Ritchie-Boys/70082783

    The Ritchie boys in this docu went on to lead successful and long lives; some are still living.

    If the USA still prosecutes alleged Nazis for the crime of handling baggage on a train that stopped at a concentration camp, doesn't justice demand that men who engaged in such extortionate practices, that resulted, in some cases, in the unjust death of a defendant, be called to account, even at this late date?

    These Jewish men acted in the name of the American people. Don't we have a right, and an obligation, to bring THEM to justice for besmirching American honor?
  79. @Tony
    Hey giraldi, do they actually pay you for writing this bullshit?

    Do they pay you for yours?

    Read More
  80. Wally says:
    @in the middle
    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    I guess, you did not read the article. The Australian lady was not a criminal, at all. I guess the cop, who by his name I assume is a Muslim, finally had his chance at killing a white, thinking was an American woman. Mohammed knew that cops kill all the time and get away with, why no kill a white American? well, it seems he is getting away with it, since he refuses to be interviewed for his crime, a privilege the non cops have not, such right. This time, finally we find out that cops not only shoot and kill minorities, now the whities are in their sights also. so Whites, its high time YOU stop defending the killer cops, and see that minorities are not their only target. Once pale faces start realizing that them defending those killer cops, then probably, yes, probably the impunity of those thugs starts to get under control. Hopefully the masonic fraternal order of police then realizes, that the public will not longer tolerate their atrocities, and impunities. By the way, I was in law enforcement for eleven years.

    Catch up:

    ‘Analysis of Washington Post police-shootings data reveals surprising result – nearly 2x more whites than blacks shot by police’

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/18/analysis-of-washington-post-police-shootings-data-reveals-surprising-result/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally

    For every 10,000 white people arrested for a violent crime, 38 white people were killed by police (± 2).
    For every 10,000 hispanic people arrested for a violent crime, 21 hispanic people were killed by police (± 3).
    For every 10,000 black people arrested for a violent crime, 21 black people were killed by police (± 2).
     
  81. Wally says:
    @Z-man
    Disturbing developments.
    I remember, way back, post 911, when the hymie mayor of Hymie town, Bloomberg, sent his jar head muldoon police commissioner Kelly to Israel to show solidarity with a town that was coming under rocket fire from Gaza. Nauseating.

    “Rockets”, aka: fire crackers … fired by who?

    The True Cost of Parasite Israel
    Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/

    Israel’s Dirty Little Secret
    How it drives US policies exploiting a spineless Congress and White House

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-dirty-little-secret/

    How to Bring Down the Elephant in the Room

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/how-to-bring-down-the-elephant-in-the-room/

    Israeli occupied territories

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    If there are 2x as many whites shot but the white population is 6x that of blacks, what does that do to your theory?
    , @Z-man
    I love that map! I hate that reality!
  82. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wally
    "Rockets", aka: fire crackers ... fired by who?

    The True Cost of Parasite Israel
    Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/

    Israel's Dirty Little Secret
    How it drives US policies exploiting a spineless Congress and White House
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-dirty-little-secret/

    How to Bring Down the Elephant in the Room
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/how-to-bring-down-the-elephant-in-the-room/

    Israeli occupied territories
    https://codoh.com/media/files/cartoon24s.png

    If there are 2x as many whites shot but the white population is 6x that of blacks, what does that do to your theory?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Say what? Please check the post you replied to. LOL
  83. mr meener says:

    if there was truly a god it would have been your wife shot by the somali cop

    Read More
  84. @Avery
    {Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.}

    Correct.

    But the Arab armies would _have_ to do battle out in the open with IDF, in order to liberate or take territory. Obviously I wasn't suggesting that Hezbollah do that.
    But the original evaluation of Arab armies by poster Martyanov stands, doesn't it?
    Notwithstanding the well earned victory by Hezbollah, skillfully defending expertly prepared _defensive_ positions.

    Reading these comments it would appear that Israel could have a rational fear that Iran – and Assad – through Hezbollah would ratchet up the rocket attacks on Israel to provoke retaiation which might mean a Verdun for the attacking IDF. (As I consider the casually chosen “Verdun” I see it as worrying for Israel because of the demographics. Roughly equal casualties on each side is a big loss for Israel). So….

    Suddenly I am getting somewhere near understanding the Israeli obsession with Iran and the logic of destroying the Iranian connection to Hezbollah by destroying Assad. That doesn’t explain how they got simple souls (ex McKinsey with a First from Oxford) to line up to destroy Assad but, setting such peripherals aside as presumably peripheral, it does lead to Israeli interest in dealing with Russia and/or Turkey to provide a post war environment where Hezbollah are no longer supported to attack Israel. That would be all the more important now that Hezbollah has had lots of experience of war in Syria.

    Could so much turn on the Iran-Alawite-Hezbollah connection? Presumably the Iranians would seek to build up in Gaza too the means for Hamas to create at least some kind of second front or diversion from Gaza just as the IDF geared up to take on Hezbollah.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Blast. No editing and I left out a comma after Hezbollah and the name of William Hague.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    At the risk of provoking mouth frothing replies let me repeat in this context my observation that no one wanted what 9/11 immediately and predictably provoked (i.e. the US in an expensive Afghan repeat of Vietnam) more than Al Qaeda. It makes sense for Israel to fear that Iran plus Hezbollah would like to be as successfully provocative. Once Hezbollah is finished in Syria look out for the misdiles aimed south.
  85. @Wizard of Oz
    Reading these comments it would appear that Israel could have a rational fear that Iran - and Assad - through Hezbollah would ratchet up the rocket attacks on Israel to provoke retaiation which might mean a Verdun for the attacking IDF. (As I consider the casually chosen "Verdun" I see it as worrying for Israel because of the demographics. Roughly equal casualties on each side is a big loss for Israel). So....

    Suddenly I am getting somewhere near understanding the Israeli obsession with Iran and the logic of destroying the Iranian connection to Hezbollah by destroying Assad. That doesn't explain how they got simple souls (ex McKinsey with a First from Oxford) to line up to destroy Assad but, setting such peripherals aside as presumably peripheral, it does lead to Israeli interest in dealing with Russia and/or Turkey to provide a post war environment where Hezbollah are no longer supported to attack Israel. That would be all the more important now that Hezbollah has had lots of experience of war in Syria.

    Could so much turn on the Iran-Alawite-Hezbollah connection? Presumably the Iranians would seek to build up in Gaza too the means for Hamas to create at least some kind of second front or diversion from Gaza just as the IDF geared up to take on Hezbollah.

    Blast. No editing and I left out a comma after Hezbollah and the name of William Hague.

    Read More
  86. mr meener says:
    @Simply Simon
    It would not take much effort to nationalize the nation's city and state police forces. A considerable amount of work has already been accomplished in standardizing police equipment and training throughout the country. With a nationalized police force, Federalized national guard units, and the US Army, ordinary citizens would be helpless if these forces were arrayed against them regardless how many individual weapons the citizens might possess.

    means nothing the weapons they got cause local guys know where the cops and military guys families are. that is their giant weakness

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    If the $#!t ever does hit the fan, most married cops will stay home to protect their families. After the first 24 hours of any historical-level event, the Blue Flu will reach Biblical proportions, and the PD's and Sheriff's Depts. will cease to have any impact on the matter.
  87. @Human_Nature
    "...the CIA and FBI together know far more about terrorists and how they behave than do the ideologically driven Mossad and Shin Beth."

    INDEED!

    Jewish doctrine, not race or D.N.A., causes Jews to steal. Jewish children
    are encouraged to take away by force the toys of non-Jewish children. Of
    course, when they grow up they have the Torah and Talmud to justify taking
    away by force the wealth, the land, and even the lives of non-Jews. Jewish
    children must learn that taking away by force the toys of non-Jews is a
    NO-NO. Right now because of their doctrine Jews are too stupid to
    understand that when they take away by force that which is precious to
    non-Jews, some non-Jews will retaliate. For more than 3,500 years Jews
    have been unable to figure out human nature. Because they justify taking
    away by force even the lives of non-Jews they know only one thing which is
    drummed into their dumbed down heads starting in the Book of Genesis: Fear
    equals love. Over and over again Jews' heads are fucked with examples of
    having to love G_d because Jews have to fear G_d. For more than 3,500
    years Jews have applied their psychopathology to non-Jews and for more than
    3,500 years they have been expelled from non-Jews' land and society,
    segregated into ghettos, and had anti-Semitic laws passed against them.
    Some very evil non-Jews recently murdered and tortured nearly 6,000,000
    Jews during the Holocaust. Yet, Jews, except Reform Jews, and a few
    others, continue to be totally clueless about human nature. Keeping It
    Simple Stupid: "Stop stealing from non-Jews."

    “Except Reform Jews” makes a rather important hole in your thesis doesn’t it.? That means most Amweican Jews. How do you class the secular lefties who founded most of the early kibbbutzim? I imagine they should be classed with Reform despite a grat range of Orthodox and Hasidic backgrounds.

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  88. Wally says:
    @Anon
    If there are 2x as many whites shot but the white population is 6x that of blacks, what does that do to your theory?

    Say what? Please check the post you replied to. LOL

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  89. @Chris Mallory

    an absence of respect for authority figures.
     
    "We the People in order......"

    In the US the people are the Authority. Government employees owe respect to the citizens. We do not owe respect to government employees.

    If a cop is such a special snowflake that he can't get his feelings hurt by a mean ol' citizen, then he is more than welcome to find honest employment and to quit living off the sweat of the citizen's brow.


    There are no good cops, no not one. All cops are trained liars. Never trust a word out of a cop's mouth.

    So cops that help first responders arent good cops? Or at least decent?

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    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Making a report and issuing citations isn't much help. But doing the job you are paid to do doesn't make you a good person.
  90. Wally says:
    @Wally
    Catch up:

    'Analysis of Washington Post police-shootings data reveals surprising result – nearly 2x more whites than blacks shot by police'
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/07/18/analysis-of-washington-post-police-shootings-data-reveals-surprising-result/

    For every 10,000 white people arrested for a violent crime, 38 white people were killed by police (± 2).
    For every 10,000 hispanic people arrested for a violent crime, 21 hispanic people were killed by police (± 3).
    For every 10,000 black people arrested for a violent crime, 21 black people were killed by police (± 2).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    To be fair, in your post he was replying to, you weren't clear that you were referring to rates, not absolute numbers.
  91. @Wally
    And I guess that 'anonymous' is YOUR name. LOL!!

    Yeah boy, what a walking cliche' you are.
    You talk like someone who knows the 'holocaust' is BS and then tries to intimidate people from engaging in free speech about it.

    I assume you mean The CODOH Revisionist Forum, http://forum.codoh.com, which is not mine, but is the most read 'holocau$t' debunking site in the world.

    Hurts don't it.

    If you have a pair, try it out and get schooled.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    http://codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    And why do so many people like you want '6M Jews & 5M others' to be dead?
    Revisionists don't.
    Revisionists bring good news, Jews like you should be elated.


    The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
     

    If I understand correctly, Germar Rudolf runs CODOH now. imo Rudolf is one of the most courageous men on the planet.

    I’ve read much of his “Lectures on the Holocaust” http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1&page_id=15
    Just last weekend I read the section where Rudolf and his audience/interlocutors discuss how Germans were tortured — a large percentage of men had testicles destroyed; Lenhi Riefenstahl was raped — to extract or coerce ‘confessions’ .

    Another tactic used to coerce a ‘confession’ was to threaten to turn the defendant over to Russians.
    From a DVD/documentary titled “The Ritchie Boys,” about young German Jews who came to USA and enlisted in Army, were trained at Fort Ritchie, Maryland (near Camp David) in espionage and interrogation techniques, etc.; were a primary source for the tons of documents US stole from Germany that became the basis for books such as Wm. Shirer’s “Rise & Fall of the Third Reich” as well as the database from which Nuremberg prosecutors cherry-picked evidence against German defendants — Germans were not given access to the documents, and some — many — were fraudulent or distorted.

    The “Ritchie Boys” docu stated that those German Jews became key members of the prosecution team at Nuremberg trials, including interrogation of defendants.

    Rudolf’s “Lectures” states that:

    “Similarly extorted testimonies must have existed by the thousands after the war. There is the case of Friedrich Gaus from the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, whose testimony was extorted by Allied prosecutor Robert Kempner by threatening to hand him over to the Russians, should he be unwil- ling to comply. The case of Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski is similar to this.274 Fritz Sauckel, the Plenipotentiary for the Labor Service who was sentenced to death at Nuremberg, signed a self-incriminating statement only after being told that his wife and ten children would otherwise be handed over to the Russians. fn275″ p. 329

    Elsewhere, Rudolf quotes

    “Edward L. van Roden, who served in World War II as U.S. Chief of the Military Justice Division for the European Theater. Together with Justice Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court, van Roden was appointed in 1948 to another extraordinary commission charged with investigating the claims of abuse during U.S. trials in Dachau. Here is an excerpt of what he wrote (Roden 1949, pp. 21f.):
    “AMERICAN investigators at the U. S. Court in Dachau, Germany, used the following methods to obtain confessions: Beatings and brutal kickings. Knocking out teeth and breaking jaws. Mock trials. Solitary confinement. Posturing as priests. Very limited rations. Spiritual deprivation. Promises of acquittal. [...] We won the war, but some of us want to go on killing. That seems to me wicked. [...] The American prohibition of hear-say evidence had been suspended. Second and third-hand testimony was admitted, [...] Lt Perl of the Prosecution pleaded that it was difficult to obtain competent evi- dence. Perl told the court, ‘We had a tough case to crack and we had to use persuasive methods.’ He admitted to the court that the persuasive methods included various ‘expedients, including some violence and mock trials.’ He further told the court that the cases rested on statements obtained by such methods. [...] The statements which were admitted as evidence were ob- tained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four, and, five months. They were confined between four walls, with no win- dows, and no opportunity of exercise. Two meals a day were shoved in to them through a slot in the door. They were not allowed to talk to anyone. They had no communication with their families or any minister or priest during that time. [...] Our investigators would put a black hood over the ac- cused’s head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him, and beat him with rubber hose. Many of the German defendants had teeth knocked out. Some had their jaws broken. All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was Standard Operating Procedure with American investigators. Perl admitted use of mock trials and persuasive methods including violence and said the court was free to decide the weight to be attached to evidence thus received. But it all went in.
    One 18 year old defendant, after a series of beatings, was writing a state- ment being dictated to him. When they reached the 16th page, the boy was locked up for the night. In the early morning, Germans in nearby cells heard him muttering. ‘I will not utter another lie.’ When the jailer came in later to get him to finish his false statement, he found the German hanging from a cell bar, dead. However the statement that the German had hanged himself to escape signing was offered and received in evidence in the trial of the others.
    Sometimes a prisoner who refused to sign was led into a dimly lit room, where a group of civilian investigators, wearing U. S. Army uniforms, were seated around a black table with a crucifix in the center and two candles burning, one on each aide. ‘You will now have your American trial,’ the de- fendant was told.
    The sham court passed a sham sentence of death. Then the accused was told, ‘You will hang in a few days, as soon as the general approves this sentence: but in the meantime sign this confession and we can get you acquitted.’ Some still wouldn’t sign. [...]
    In another case, a bogus Catholic priest (actually an investigator) entered the cell of one of the defendants, heard his confession, gave him absolution, and then gave him a little friendly tip: ‘Sign whatever the investigators ask you to sign. It will get you your freedom. Even though it’s false, I can give you absolution now in advance for the lie you’d tell.’”

    This is significant because in The Ritchie Boys docu, first of all, the Jewish men express how they acted out of hate [in contrast, GIs posted to post-war Germany, on the other hand, relate in numerous interviews that they believed the Germans had suffered enough, that they were good people, and the GIs felt friendly toward them]. S
    Second, in the docu several of the Jewish spies laugh about how they dreamed up and carried out precisely those sorts of activities; how they frightened German soldiers into doing their bidding by threatening to turn them over to Russians, or by dressing up one of their Ritchie boy colleagues as a Russian and subjecting Germans to a mock interrogation. https://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/The-Ritchie-Boys/70082783

    The Ritchie boys in this docu went on to lead successful and long lives; some are still living.

    If the USA still prosecutes alleged Nazis for the crime of handling baggage on a train that stopped at a concentration camp, doesn’t justice demand that men who engaged in such extortionate practices, that resulted, in some cases, in the unjust death of a defendant, be called to account, even at this late date?

    These Jewish men acted in the name of the American people. Don’t we have a right, and an obligation, to bring THEM to justice for besmirching American honor?

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    • Replies: @Wally
    You're figuring it out. Good work.

    Germar Rudolf, indeed, a true hero to all who value freedom of speech & inquiry; a foe to the usual enemies of free speech.

    Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.

    Come join in: www.codoh.com
    and:
    http://www.forum.codoh.com

    More facts about Nuremberg:

    English translations of Russian translations of Polish copies of an alleged German original which cannot be found. That is typical of Nuremberg 'documents'. Ask Carlos Porter about that, his website is filled with such 'documents'. https://www.cwporter.com/

    Recall that at Nuremberg is was stated that 'the court was not bound by technical rules of evidence.' Ahem.

    The official use of torture in extracting "confessions" from Germans has been confirmed repeatedly.

    - All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:" 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused's head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. American judge, van Roden

    - Judge van Roden's allegation of torture to gain "confessions" is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    - U.S. Congressional Representative, Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    " The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history."
    Congressional Record, appendix, v.95, sec.14, 6/15/49

    - All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was Standard Operating Procedure with American investigators.
    by Judge E. L. van Roden, "American Atrocities in Germany", The Progressive. February 1949, p. 21f.

    - Judge van Roden's allegation of torture to gain "confessions" is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred.
    - Congressional Record, appendix. v. 95,sec.12, 3/10/49

    - "The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: 'Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.'"(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    - The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in 'The Wrexham Leader', October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    "They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks," recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation."
    "We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance," said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    - There was no legal precedent for this, one official noted, besides which "any court of inquiry into these allegations would be futile".

    - In one complaint lodged at the National Archives, a 27-year-old German journalist being held at this camp said he had spent two years as a prisoner of the Gestapo. And not once, he said, did they treat him as badly as the British.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.
    and:
    - "The London Cage was used partly as a torture centre, inside which large numbers of German officers and soldiers were subjected to systematic ill-treatment. In total 3,573 men passed through the Cage, and more than 1,000 were persuaded to give statements about war crimes. The brutality did not end with the war, moreover: a number of German civilians joined the servicemen who were interrogated there up to 1948.
    As the work of the Cage was wound down, the interrogation of prisoners was switched to a number of internment camps in Germany. And there is evidence that the treatment meted out in these places was, if anything, far worse. While many of the papers relating to these interrogation centres remain sealed at the Foreign Office, it is clear that one camp in the British zone became particularly notorious. At least two German prisoners starved to death there, according to a court of inquiry, while others were shot for minor offences.
     

     
  92. JohnDough says:

    Russia has no control over the US but Israel certainly does. With our bought and paid for politicians putting Israeli interests and Jewish interests before American interests and the good of the American people. The on point article about how our police forces have been co-opted by Israel as well as a number of other US institutions then comes this draconian bill:

    “The Israel Anti-Boycott Act imposes harsh punishments: any person guilty of violating the law faces a “minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison.” That’s insane Old Testament Talmudic style punishment. What happened to the enforcement of treason laws?

    With Kushner, Cohn, and Mnuchin unscathed so far in the Trump administration dystopia guess who’s running the show. Media, finance, and Washington all compromised! Time for a real change we can believe in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Not sure where this "real change" will come from. Both parties are deep into the pockets of AIPAC (and vice-versa), which comes to mind that famous (or infamous, depending upon your cup of tea) remark uttered by Pat Buchanan that the US Congress is "Israeli occupied territory." Given Trump's family ties, no way will HE buck the system. Trump's promise to "drain the swamp" would have, or should have, assumed a comprehensive re-evaluation of America's ties with Israel. Don't hold your breath, because it won't be happening anytime soon.

    We need a POTUS who is beholden to the United States Constitution--not to special interests.
    Unfortunately no such individual appears anywhere on the horizon, thus business as usual in The Swamp.
  93. @Wally

    For every 10,000 white people arrested for a violent crime, 38 white people were killed by police (± 2).
    For every 10,000 hispanic people arrested for a violent crime, 21 hispanic people were killed by police (± 3).
    For every 10,000 black people arrested for a violent crime, 21 black people were killed by police (± 2).
     

    To be fair, in your post he was replying to, you weren’t clear that you were referring to rates, not absolute numbers.

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    • Replies: @Wally
    To be fair the man should've read the link that I posted.
  94. @Wizard of Oz
    Reading these comments it would appear that Israel could have a rational fear that Iran - and Assad - through Hezbollah would ratchet up the rocket attacks on Israel to provoke retaiation which might mean a Verdun for the attacking IDF. (As I consider the casually chosen "Verdun" I see it as worrying for Israel because of the demographics. Roughly equal casualties on each side is a big loss for Israel). So....

    Suddenly I am getting somewhere near understanding the Israeli obsession with Iran and the logic of destroying the Iranian connection to Hezbollah by destroying Assad. That doesn't explain how they got simple souls (ex McKinsey with a First from Oxford) to line up to destroy Assad but, setting such peripherals aside as presumably peripheral, it does lead to Israeli interest in dealing with Russia and/or Turkey to provide a post war environment where Hezbollah are no longer supported to attack Israel. That would be all the more important now that Hezbollah has had lots of experience of war in Syria.

    Could so much turn on the Iran-Alawite-Hezbollah connection? Presumably the Iranians would seek to build up in Gaza too the means for Hamas to create at least some kind of second front or diversion from Gaza just as the IDF geared up to take on Hezbollah.

    At the risk of provoking mouth frothing replies let me repeat in this context my observation that no one wanted what 9/11 immediately and predictably provoked (i.e. the US in an expensive Afghan repeat of Vietnam) more than Al Qaeda. It makes sense for Israel to fear that Iran plus Hezbollah would like to be as successfully provocative. Once Hezbollah is finished in Syria look out for the misdiles aimed south.

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    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    If I had to bet, I would expect the next target to be the recapture of the Golan Heights. Israel has painted itself into a corner. Relentless PR can only go so far. Now it must prepare to face the battle hardened forces of Syria and the Hezbollah. Not quite the same as shooting defenseless kids on Gaza beaches.
  95. @Wizard of Oz
    At the risk of provoking mouth frothing replies let me repeat in this context my observation that no one wanted what 9/11 immediately and predictably provoked (i.e. the US in an expensive Afghan repeat of Vietnam) more than Al Qaeda. It makes sense for Israel to fear that Iran plus Hezbollah would like to be as successfully provocative. Once Hezbollah is finished in Syria look out for the misdiles aimed south.

    If I had to bet, I would expect the next target to be the recapture of the Golan Heights. Israel has painted itself into a corner. Relentless PR can only go so far. Now it must prepare to face the battle hardened forces of Syria and the Hezbollah. Not quite the same as shooting defenseless kids on Gaza beaches.

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  96. When ex-military are the preferred personnel to do peace time police work you always end up with
    a military solution.
    Therefore swat teams dressed in military garb with military grade weaponry becomes the norm.
    They treat the job as an occupation of the land ,the citizenry as the enemy .
    Instead of training the police to be peace keepers and guardians of the community they are trained to be occupiers and a spearhead to put the citizenry down at every chance,to bilk the citizenry at every chance and in many cases to go as far as steal any cash they find in the citizen’s procession.
    Let it be known far and wide when the police become as they are now there is a time coming when they will have the short end of the stick and that time is approaching fast in USA.

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  97. MEexpert says:
    @Avery
    {..the last few incursions into Arab territory resulted in the IDF getting their noses bloodied}

    There was only _one_ incursion during which IDF got badly bloodied: the 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah. Were there others?

    In any case Martyanov is right: Hezbollah is not a regular Arab army.
    They are a highly disciplined guerilla force.
    Their military leadership is apparently based on meritocracy, unlike the regular Arab armies.

    In that particular war, Hezbollah had spent years building well concealed defensive positions, many on hilly terrain, which neither Israeli high-tech equipment nor their spies detected.
    IDF attacked static Hezbollah stongpoints and was mauled.
    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the 'mythical' Merkava.

    However, I believe IDF can still easily trounce any of Arab regular armies in an open warfare. Their AF has air-supremacy over their Arab enemies: without a powerful AF to counter it, all the ground forces of Arab armies will be destroyed out in the open.

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the ‘mythical’ Merkava.

    After Israel got its tender little behind kicked in Lebanon during the 2006 war, IDF was threatening a land invasion of Lebanon. Hezbollah was ready and challenged them, using George W. Bush’s words; “bring them on.” Needless to say, since the little behinds were still sore from spanking they got from Hezbollah, IDF decided to not try their luck.

    Israeli soldiers see Hezbollah behind every rock.

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    • Agree: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @anon
    This fear of hizbullah led the 'Redirection" ( Sy Hersh ) in Cheney's cabalistic thinking . Suddenly the enemies like Egypt Jordan and Saudi Arab became "moderate: to Israel.
    Frum or Dori Gold was no longer frothing at mouth . Shuslky Kagan Wurmser Perle and Ledeen or Kristol or AIPAC no longer looking for the belly of the Saudi beast.

    They approached Saudi and turned everything on it's head and declared that Shi crescent was the problem.

    Before this narrative took hold, a future Nuclear Iran was never perceived by Saudi as a threat. This ploy saved the Saudi from 911 's family's ire and from the Zionists fangs of destruction. Israel saw the danger and approached Saudi with carrot.
    Saudi swallowed the carrot ( and paid the beggars few billions to campaign for them in US. US media followed suit and started calling them "moderate Sunni states " like a robot would do. )
  98. Wally says: • Website
    @SolontoCroesus
    If I understand correctly, Germar Rudolf runs CODOH now. imo Rudolf is one of the most courageous men on the planet.

    I've read much of his "Lectures on the Holocaust" http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1&page_id=15
    Just last weekend I read the section where Rudolf and his audience/interlocutors discuss how Germans were tortured -- a large percentage of men had testicles destroyed; Lenhi Riefenstahl was raped -- to extract or coerce 'confessions' .

    Another tactic used to coerce a 'confession' was to threaten to turn the defendant over to Russians.
    From a DVD/documentary titled "The Ritchie Boys," about young German Jews who came to USA and enlisted in Army, were trained at Fort Ritchie, Maryland (near Camp David) in espionage and interrogation techniques, etc.; were a primary source for the tons of documents US stole from Germany that became the basis for books such as Wm. Shirer's "Rise & Fall of the Third Reich" as well as the database from which Nuremberg prosecutors cherry-picked evidence against German defendants -- Germans were not given access to the documents, and some -- many -- were fraudulent or distorted.

    The "Ritchie Boys" docu stated that those German Jews became key members of the prosecution team at Nuremberg trials, including interrogation of defendants.

    Rudolf's "Lectures" states that:

    "Similarly extorted testimonies must have existed by the thousands after the war. There is the case of Friedrich Gaus from the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, whose testimony was extorted by Allied prosecutor Robert Kempner by threatening to hand him over to the Russians, should he be unwil- ling to comply. The case of Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski is similar to this.274 Fritz Sauckel, the Plenipotentiary for the Labor Service who was sentenced to death at Nuremberg, signed a self-incriminating statement only after being told that his wife and ten children would otherwise be handed over to the Russians. fn275" p. 329
     
    Elsewhere, Rudolf quotes

    "Edward L. van Roden, who served in World War II as U.S. Chief of the Military Justice Division for the European Theater. Together with Justice Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court, van Roden was appointed in 1948 to another extraordinary commission charged with investigating the claims of abuse during U.S. trials in Dachau. Here is an excerpt of what he wrote (Roden 1949, pp. 21f.):
    “AMERICAN investigators at the U. S. Court in Dachau, Germany, used the following methods to obtain confessions: Beatings and brutal kickings. Knocking out teeth and breaking jaws. Mock trials. Solitary confinement. Posturing as priests. Very limited rations. Spiritual deprivation. Promises of acquittal. [...] We won the war, but some of us want to go on killing. That seems to me wicked. [...] The American prohibition of hear-say evidence had been suspended. Second and third-hand testimony was admitted, [...] Lt Perl of the Prosecution pleaded that it was difficult to obtain competent evi- dence. Perl told the court, ‘We had a tough case to crack and we had to use persuasive methods.’ He admitted to the court that the persuasive methods included various ‘expedients, including some violence and mock trials.’ He further told the court that the cases rested on statements obtained by such methods. [...] The statements which were admitted as evidence were ob- tained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four, and, five months. They were confined between four walls, with no win- dows, and no opportunity of exercise. Two meals a day were shoved in to them through a slot in the door. They were not allowed to talk to anyone. They had no communication with their families or any minister or priest during that time. [...] Our investigators would put a black hood over the ac- cused’s head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him, and beat him with rubber hose. Many of the German defendants had teeth knocked out. Some had their jaws broken. All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was Standard Operating Procedure with American investigators. Perl admitted use of mock trials and persuasive methods including violence and said the court was free to decide the weight to be attached to evidence thus received. But it all went in.
    One 18 year old defendant, after a series of beatings, was writing a state- ment being dictated to him. When they reached the 16th page, the boy was locked up for the night. In the early morning, Germans in nearby cells heard him muttering. ‘I will not utter another lie.’ When the jailer came in later to get him to finish his false statement, he found the German hanging from a cell bar, dead. However the statement that the German had hanged himself to escape signing was offered and received in evidence in the trial of the others.
    Sometimes a prisoner who refused to sign was led into a dimly lit room, where a group of civilian investigators, wearing U. S. Army uniforms, were seated around a black table with a crucifix in the center and two candles burning, one on each aide. ‘You will now have your American trial,’ the de- fendant was told.
    The sham court passed a sham sentence of death. Then the accused was told, ‘You will hang in a few days, as soon as the general approves this sentence: but in the meantime sign this confession and we can get you acquitted.’ Some still wouldn’t sign. [...]
    In another case, a bogus Catholic priest (actually an investigator) entered the cell of one of the defendants, heard his confession, gave him absolution, and then gave him a little friendly tip: ‘Sign whatever the investigators ask you to sign. It will get you your freedom. Even though it’s false, I can give you absolution now in advance for the lie you’d tell.’”

     
    This is significant because in The Ritchie Boys docu, first of all, the Jewish men express how they acted out of hate [in contrast, GIs posted to post-war Germany, on the other hand, relate in numerous interviews that they believed the Germans had suffered enough, that they were good people, and the GIs felt friendly toward them]. S
    Second, in the docu several of the Jewish spies laugh about how they dreamed up and carried out precisely those sorts of activities; how they frightened German soldiers into doing their bidding by threatening to turn them over to Russians, or by dressing up one of their Ritchie boy colleagues as a Russian and subjecting Germans to a mock interrogation. https://dvd.netflix.com/Movie/The-Ritchie-Boys/70082783

    The Ritchie boys in this docu went on to lead successful and long lives; some are still living.

    If the USA still prosecutes alleged Nazis for the crime of handling baggage on a train that stopped at a concentration camp, doesn't justice demand that men who engaged in such extortionate practices, that resulted, in some cases, in the unjust death of a defendant, be called to account, even at this late date?

    These Jewish men acted in the name of the American people. Don't we have a right, and an obligation, to bring THEM to justice for besmirching American honor?

    You’re figuring it out. Good work.

    Germar Rudolf, indeed, a true hero to all who value freedom of speech & inquiry; a foe to the usual enemies of free speech.

    Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.

    Come join in: http://www.codoh.com
    and:

    http://www.forum.codoh.com

    More facts about Nuremberg:

    [MORE]

    English translations of Russian translations of Polish copies of an alleged German original which cannot be found. That is typical of Nuremberg ‘documents’. Ask Carlos Porter about that, his website is filled with such ‘documents’. https://www.cwporter.com/

    Recall that at Nuremberg is was stated that ‘the court was not bound by technical rules of evidence.’ Ahem.

    The official use of torture in extracting “confessions” from Germans has been confirmed repeatedly.

    - All but two of the Germans [on trial at Nuremberg], in the 139 cases that we investigated, had their testicles kicked in beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators:” 23.1.49, The Sunday Pictorial (quoted in For Those Who Cannot Speak (ref. 27), p.21.The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months..The investigators would put a black hood over the accused’s head, punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses. American judge, van Roden

    - Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred. Congressional Record, appendix v. 95, sec.12, 3/10/49

    - U.S. Congressional Representative, Lawrence H. Smith of Wisconsin said:
    ” The Nuremberg Trials are so repugnant to the Anglo-Saxon principles of justice that we must forever be ashamed of that page in our history.”
    Congressional Record, appendix, v.95, sec.14, 6/15/49

    - All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was Standard Operating Procedure with American investigators.
    by Judge E. L. van Roden, “American Atrocities in Germany”, The Progressive. February 1949, p. 21f.

    - Judge van Roden’s allegation of torture to gain “confessions” is confirmed by Texas Supreme Court Judge, Gordon Simpson. He confirmed that savage beatings, smashing of testicles, and months of solitary confinement occurred.
    - Congressional Record, appendix. v. 95,sec.12, 3/10/49

    - “The prisoner was torn from the top bunk, the pyjamas ripped from his body. He was then dragged naked to one of the slaughter tables, where it seemed to [Bernard] Clarke the blows and screams were endless. Eventually, the Medical Officer urged the Captain: ‘Call them off, unless you want to take back a corpse.’”(12)
    12.R. Butler, Legions of Death, Hamlyn, (London, 1983), p.237

    - The admission of Bernard Clarke was corroborated by Mr. Ken Jones in ‘The Wrexham Leader’, October 17, 1986.
    Mr. Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein.
    “They brought him to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activites during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks,” recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Hoess in his cell to help break him down for interrogation.”
    “We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,” said Mr. Jones.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.

    - There was no legal precedent for this, one official noted, besides which “any court of inquiry into these allegations would be futile”.

    - In one complaint lodged at the National Archives, a 27-year-old German journalist being held at this camp said he had spent two years as a prisoner of the Gestapo. And not once, he said, did they treat him as badly as the British.
    When Hoess was taken out for exercise, he was made to wear only jeans and a thin cotton shirt in the bitter cold. After three days and nights without sleep, Hoess finally broke down and made a full confession to the authorities.
    and:
    - “The London Cage was used partly as a torture centre, inside which large numbers of German officers and soldiers were subjected to systematic ill-treatment. In total 3,573 men passed through the Cage, and more than 1,000 were persuaded to give statements about war crimes. The brutality did not end with the war, moreover: a number of German civilians joined the servicemen who were interrogated there up to 1948.
    As the work of the Cage was wound down, the interrogation of prisoners was switched to a number of internment camps in Germany. And there is evidence that the treatment meted out in these places was, if anything, far worse. While many of the papers relating to these interrogation centres remain sealed at the Foreign Office, it is clear that one camp in the British zone became particularly notorious. At least two German prisoners starved to death there, according to a court of inquiry, while others were shot for minor offences.

    Read More
  99. Wally says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty
    To be fair, in your post he was replying to, you weren't clear that you were referring to rates, not absolute numbers.

    To be fair the man should’ve read the link that I posted.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Not sure why, but I've had an ongoing issue with my comments showing up in response to the wrong post. Anyone experiencing the same thing? Moderators?
  100. Z-man says:
    @Druid
    6 million is a hoax number. Jews were killed and brutalized along with Gypsies, Soviets, others, but this 6M BS goes back a hundred tears before WW2

    In the context of the ‘holy-caust’ it didn’t come into fashion until the late sixties/early seventies. Clever, sneaky race.

    Read More
  101. Z-man says:
    @Wally
    "Rockets", aka: fire crackers ... fired by who?

    The True Cost of Parasite Israel
    Forced US taxpayers money to Israel goes far beyond the official numbers.
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-true-cost-of-israel/

    Israel's Dirty Little Secret
    How it drives US policies exploiting a spineless Congress and White House
    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-dirty-little-secret/

    How to Bring Down the Elephant in the Room
    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/how-to-bring-down-the-elephant-in-the-room/

    Israeli occupied territories
    https://codoh.com/media/files/cartoon24s.png

    I love that map! I hate that reality!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Because if there's anything that Europeans love, it's Israel...
  102. @Delinquent Snail
    So cops that help first responders arent good cops? Or at least decent?

    Making a report and issuing citations isn’t much help. But doing the job you are paid to do doesn’t make you a good person.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "There are no good cops, no not one. All cops are trained liars. Never trust a word out of a cop’s mouth."

    It is amazing that you are able to tell that lie with a straight face.
  103. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Wally
    To be fair the man should've read the link that I posted.

    Not sure why, but I’ve had an ongoing issue with my comments showing up in response to the wrong post. Anyone experiencing the same thing? Moderators?

    Read More
  104. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Z-man
    I love that map! I hate that reality!

    Because if there’s anything that Europeans love, it’s Israel…

    Read More
  105. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @JohnDough
    Russia has no control over the US but Israel certainly does. With our bought and paid for politicians putting Israeli interests and Jewish interests before American interests and the good of the American people. The on point article about how our police forces have been co-opted by Israel as well as a number of other US institutions then comes this draconian bill:

    "The Israel Anti-Boycott Act imposes harsh punishments: any person guilty of violating the law faces a “minimum civil penalty of $250,000 and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison." That's insane Old Testament Talmudic style punishment. What happened to the enforcement of treason laws?

    With Kushner, Cohn, and Mnuchin unscathed so far in the Trump administration dystopia guess who's running the show. Media, finance, and Washington all compromised! Time for a real change we can believe in.

    Not sure where this “real change” will come from. Both parties are deep into the pockets of AIPAC (and vice-versa), which comes to mind that famous (or infamous, depending upon your cup of tea) remark uttered by Pat Buchanan that the US Congress is “Israeli occupied territory.” Given Trump’s family ties, no way will HE buck the system. Trump’s promise to “drain the swamp” would have, or should have, assumed a comprehensive re-evaluation of America’s ties with Israel. Don’t hold your breath, because it won’t be happening anytime soon.

    We need a POTUS who is beholden to the United States Constitution–not to special interests.
    Unfortunately no such individual appears anywhere on the horizon, thus business as usual in The Swamp.

    Read More
  106. Talha says:
    @Avery
    {Only an idiot has infantry take on armor out in the open.}

    Correct.

    But the Arab armies would _have_ to do battle out in the open with IDF, in order to liberate or take territory. Obviously I wasn't suggesting that Hezbollah do that.
    But the original evaluation of Arab armies by poster Martyanov stands, doesn't it?
    Notwithstanding the well earned victory by Hezbollah, skillfully defending expertly prepared _defensive_ positions.

    Yo Avery,

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.

    Yup – when you have zero air force assets, that’s about the stupidest thing one can do.

    Your (and other’s) assessment of Arab armies is pretty spot on – the Muslim world is probably not going to do well on the offense in any situation at this point unless against a totally over-matched opponent. Even this is a toss up – look at Saudi’s disastrous war in Yemen (then again, Egypt didn’t do well there either a few decades ago). But Hezbollah and other irregular forces have shown that a well-planned defense to make the enemy pay dearly for each inch of territory is the way to go. And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something), then basically nobody will willingly send their people into a meat-grinder where Muslim volunteers from all over the world are pouring in. This is an excellent moral position to be in when it comes to war.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {(this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something),}

    Yo, Talha:

    Surely you're not serious (....."I am serious: and stop calling me Shirley).

    The myth of cooperation in the Muslim world is as enduring as the myth of cooperation in Christendom. Geopolitical interests and historic ties trump and transcend any religious affiliation*. All other things being equal, yeah, maybe: Muslims will side with Muslims, and Christians will side with Christians. But in geopolitics 'things' rarely, if ever, are equal.

    Turkey/Iran: Turkey and Iran are geopolitical rivals and mortal enemies for centuries. (depending on the century)
    Iran is Shia and Turks are Sunni, as you well know.
    No love lost between the two.
    They'll cooperate when pigs sprout wings and start flying.

    And China is not going to help Turkey develop tech.
    Turkey tried to buy Chinese version of Russian S-300, but the deal fell through because Turks wanted Chinese to transfer the design to them, and Chinese naturally balked.

    So your wish will remain just a wish for the foreseeable future.
    Yo, Talha: knowing you are well educated and well aware of how things are in the world, I am a bit surprised you'd express such an unrealistic wish.
    Bad week?


    _______
    *
    Azerbaijan has been vociferously complaining since late 1980s that (Muslim) Iran is tacitly siding with (Christian) Armenia re Artsakh/Nagorno Karabagh. The idiots in Baku are too stupid to see the obvious reasons.

    , @anon
    Festering conflicts need a balanced approach Sometimes Russia does Sometimes( or always ) US does

    "Russia intervened to stop Azerbaijan's advances in last year's conflict with Armenia, Azerbaijan's defense minister has said.

    While some Russian behind-the-scenes role in stopping the fighting had been known, Defense Minister Zakir Hasanov provided some new details and suggested that Azerbaijan would have made more military advances if not for Moscow's involvement. Hasanov made the comments in an interview with RIA Novosti, his first-ever interview with foreign media.

    Through its membership in the Collective Security Treaty Organization, the Russia-led security bloc, "Armenia has made other countries hostages to their provocations," Hasanov said. "They know that if no one intervenes in the situation, they wouldn't last for three days. This is what happened in April 2016. If they hadn't stopped us, the resistance would have been broken. In 40 minutes we ran over the lines of defense that the enemy had been building for many years." The fighting last April was the worst since the two sides signed a ceasefire in 1994, killing at least 200 people and further hardening the distrust on both sides.

    Armenia "already on the second day" of fighting last April appealed to Russia to intervene, Hasanov said. As a result, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu called him, he recalled. "He said 'this business' had to stop, the leadership of the countries were going to talk about it." A similar call was made by the chief of general staff of the Russian armed forces to his Azerbaijani counterpart, Hasanov said. http://www.eurasianet.org/node/84366
    , @Art
    And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something)

    Talha,

    Russia could advance world peace if it would ramp up production and sell s-300's and s-400's to the ME. Sell them to Egypt first.

    They are pure defensive weapons. Defense is moral.

    Israel will not risk its planes - they are 80% of their war making power.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires. They do not have the water to put out the fires.
  107. Avery says:
    @Talha
    Yo Avery,

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
     
    Yup - when you have zero air force assets, that's about the stupidest thing one can do.

    Your (and other's) assessment of Arab armies is pretty spot on - the Muslim world is probably not going to do well on the offense in any situation at this point unless against a totally over-matched opponent. Even this is a toss up - look at Saudi's disastrous war in Yemen (then again, Egypt didn't do well there either a few decades ago). But Hezbollah and other irregular forces have shown that a well-planned defense to make the enemy pay dearly for each inch of territory is the way to go. And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something), then basically nobody will willingly send their people into a meat-grinder where Muslim volunteers from all over the world are pouring in. This is an excellent moral position to be in when it comes to war.

    Peace.

    {(this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something),}

    Yo, Talha:

    Surely you’re not serious (…..”I am serious: and stop calling me Shirley).

    The myth of cooperation in the Muslim world is as enduring as the myth of cooperation in Christendom. Geopolitical interests and historic ties trump and transcend any religious affiliation*. All other things being equal, yeah, maybe: Muslims will side with Muslims, and Christians will side with Christians. But in geopolitics ‘things’ rarely, if ever, are equal.

    Turkey/Iran: Turkey and Iran are geopolitical rivals and mortal enemies for centuries. (depending on the century)
    Iran is Shia and Turks are Sunni, as you well know.
    No love lost between the two.
    They’ll cooperate when pigs sprout wings and start flying.

    And China is not going to help Turkey develop tech.
    Turkey tried to buy Chinese version of Russian S-300, but the deal fell through because Turks wanted Chinese to transfer the design to them, and Chinese naturally balked.

    So your wish will remain just a wish for the foreseeable future.
    Yo, Talha: knowing you are well educated and well aware of how things are in the world, I am a bit surprised you’d express such an unrealistic wish.
    Bad week?

    _______
    *
    Azerbaijan has been vociferously complaining since late 1980s that (Muslim) Iran is tacitly siding with (Christian) Armenia re Artsakh/Nagorno Karabagh. The idiots in Baku are too stupid to see the obvious reasons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Yo Avery,

    I am a bit surprised you’d express such an unrealistic wish.
     
    It's a wish certainly. I don't know - from where I've observed, I've actually seen nationalistic sentiment toning down. It's nothing like it was in the 60's and 70's. A lot of it has to do with the rise of religious sentiment across the Muslim world which will always tend toward lowering ethno-nationalist feelings. I guess we'll see what the next couple of decades portend - I may or may not be around much longer after that. Also - I know there is/was this Daesh nonsense in Syria/Iraq and also the Saudis scrambling to make a mess of whoever doesn't cooperate with them (Yemen/Qatar/Iran), but actually Sunni-Shiah rivalry (minus the Salafi-Wahhabi extremists who want to fight everybody) is toning down - I have seen fatwas from Shiah scholars that I did not think would happen in my lifetime overturning centuries of certain practices. I have seen fatwas from certain scholars and institutions on the Sunni side calling for dampening down of hostilities and tolerance that has also shocked me.

    But you are right that it is not a straightforward thing at all - took us a while to get here - will take a while to get out.

    Peace.
  108. As if the United States did not already have one of the world’s worst problems with violent, brainless police!

    Each year more than 1,100 Americans are killed by their own police.

    Many times that are injured and abused.

    That is a toll worse than any terrorist outfit you care to name.

    It is a reflection of poor hiring and training and follow-up practices. It is also just a reflection of an increasingly brutal society.

    So, what do local governments do?

    Send their police for training by a gang of concentration camp guards in Israel.

    Makes sense to me.

    Read More
  109. peterAUS says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    " American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their european counterparts".

    American police are clearly out of control"

    Total nonsense.

    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals who had displayed mental or drug issues, and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force, such is always demanded of the US police by the european media.

    And of course since the Germans/Europeans are now the good guys, and DT's America is the nation of the bad guys, the the media manages to explain away every case of the fatal shooting of someone in Germany/Europe, while never even considering the possibility of a justified action on behalf of the US police.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

    Would you, please, post a source of those police killings in Germany?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    The incidents have been publicized in the Germany media over the last several months,and I have no clue as to how to locate a a specific singular "Source" regarding these actions.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.
  110. peterAUS says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I’m not sure incompetence and illiteracy were as much factors as lack of funding.
     
    What "funding". Even given world-class (granted in "monkey" versions) of Soviet weapons Arab militaries time after time failed to utilize its full potential (other than when Soviet advisers manned it)--all due to extremely low military culture. In English language I may suggest Colonel Atkine's now famous "Why Arabs Lose Wars". I know why they do so almost first hand--I have experience of communication with Soviet military advisers to Arab militaries. In fact, my naval academy had a separate Arab Faculty and some of my relatives taught them. Opinion was low. The answer to that lies in religious, cultural and economic factors. E.g. Saudi Arabia's military is staffed with shiny expensive US and European military toys--well, KSA's military is a pathetic joke. So much for funding which, in absolute dollars, is higher than that of Russia's military budget. Wanna bet how long it will take Russian Army to obliterate that of KSA's?

    Agree.

    The book “Why Arabs Lose Wars” is, IMHO, must read for anyone wanting to understand Arab military capability.

    I do have first hand experience in training of Arab military personnel.

    Nepotism, corruption, lack of hard work, lack of discipline…list goes on.
    Homosexuality…………(now, that is an interesting topic with Arab societies).

    As for the IDF, well…..I’ve read their analysis of the debacle with Hezbollah.
    They have been working on remedying it.

    Somebody would even think that the current mess in Syria is a direct result of that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
    I drunk whiskey, in the restroom no less, of the Soviet Embassy in Tripoli in early 1980s with air defense adviser who drunk (Whiskey was his, despite alcohol being forbidden in Jamaheriya) as he said because he taught Libyans (for S-200 IIRC) and the process was excruciating for him. Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations which require the use of all bells and whistles which come with those--from inter-service (inter-force) coordination to using properly a whole spectrum of military technology. Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA's General Staff is still very low.
  111. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @MEexpert

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
    And as noted, modern Russian anti-tank missiles helped greatly by wrecking IDF armor, particularly the ‘mythical’ Merkava.
     
    After Israel got its tender little behind kicked in Lebanon during the 2006 war, IDF was threatening a land invasion of Lebanon. Hezbollah was ready and challenged them, using George W. Bush's words; "bring them on." Needless to say, since the little behinds were still sore from spanking they got from Hezbollah, IDF decided to not try their luck.

    Israeli soldiers see Hezbollah behind every rock.

    This fear of hizbullah led the ‘Redirection” ( Sy Hersh ) in Cheney’s cabalistic thinking . Suddenly the enemies like Egypt Jordan and Saudi Arab became “moderate: to Israel.
    Frum or Dori Gold was no longer frothing at mouth . Shuslky Kagan Wurmser Perle and Ledeen or Kristol or AIPAC no longer looking for the belly of the Saudi beast.

    They approached Saudi and turned everything on it’s head and declared that Shi crescent was the problem.

    Before this narrative took hold, a future Nuclear Iran was never perceived by Saudi as a threat. This ploy saved the Saudi from 911 ‘s family’s ire and from the Zionists fangs of destruction. Israel saw the danger and approached Saudi with carrot.
    Saudi swallowed the carrot ( and paid the beggars few billions to campaign for them in US. US media followed suit and started calling them “moderate Sunni states ” like a robot would do. )

    Read More
  112. Talha says:
    @Avery
    {(this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something),}

    Yo, Talha:

    Surely you're not serious (....."I am serious: and stop calling me Shirley).

    The myth of cooperation in the Muslim world is as enduring as the myth of cooperation in Christendom. Geopolitical interests and historic ties trump and transcend any religious affiliation*. All other things being equal, yeah, maybe: Muslims will side with Muslims, and Christians will side with Christians. But in geopolitics 'things' rarely, if ever, are equal.

    Turkey/Iran: Turkey and Iran are geopolitical rivals and mortal enemies for centuries. (depending on the century)
    Iran is Shia and Turks are Sunni, as you well know.
    No love lost between the two.
    They'll cooperate when pigs sprout wings and start flying.

    And China is not going to help Turkey develop tech.
    Turkey tried to buy Chinese version of Russian S-300, but the deal fell through because Turks wanted Chinese to transfer the design to them, and Chinese naturally balked.

    So your wish will remain just a wish for the foreseeable future.
    Yo, Talha: knowing you are well educated and well aware of how things are in the world, I am a bit surprised you'd express such an unrealistic wish.
    Bad week?


    _______
    *
    Azerbaijan has been vociferously complaining since late 1980s that (Muslim) Iran is tacitly siding with (Christian) Armenia re Artsakh/Nagorno Karabagh. The idiots in Baku are too stupid to see the obvious reasons.

    Yo Avery,

    I am a bit surprised you’d express such an unrealistic wish.

    It’s a wish certainly. I don’t know – from where I’ve observed, I’ve actually seen nationalistic sentiment toning down. It’s nothing like it was in the 60′s and 70′s. A lot of it has to do with the rise of religious sentiment across the Muslim world which will always tend toward lowering ethno-nationalist feelings. I guess we’ll see what the next couple of decades portend – I may or may not be around much longer after that. Also – I know there is/was this Daesh nonsense in Syria/Iraq and also the Saudis scrambling to make a mess of whoever doesn’t cooperate with them (Yemen/Qatar/Iran), but actually Sunni-Shiah rivalry (minus the Salafi-Wahhabi extremists who want to fight everybody) is toning down – I have seen fatwas from Shiah scholars that I did not think would happen in my lifetime overturning centuries of certain practices. I have seen fatwas from certain scholars and institutions on the Sunni side calling for dampening down of hostilities and tolerance that has also shocked me.

    But you are right that it is not a straightforward thing at all – took us a while to get here – will take a while to get out.

    Peace.

    Read More
  113. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Talha
    Yo Avery,

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
     
    Yup - when you have zero air force assets, that's about the stupidest thing one can do.

    Your (and other's) assessment of Arab armies is pretty spot on - the Muslim world is probably not going to do well on the offense in any situation at this point unless against a totally over-matched opponent. Even this is a toss up - look at Saudi's disastrous war in Yemen (then again, Egypt didn't do well there either a few decades ago). But Hezbollah and other irregular forces have shown that a well-planned defense to make the enemy pay dearly for each inch of territory is the way to go. And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something), then basically nobody will willingly send their people into a meat-grinder where Muslim volunteers from all over the world are pouring in. This is an excellent moral position to be in when it comes to war.

    Peace.

    Festering conflicts need a balanced approach Sometimes Russia does Sometimes( or always ) US does

    “Russia intervened to stop Azerbaijan’s advances in last year’s conflict with Armenia, Azerbaijan’s defense minister has said.

    While some Russian behind-the-scenes role in stopping the fighting had been known, Defense Minister Zakir Hasanov provided some new details and suggested that Azerbaijan would have made more military advances if not for Moscow’s involvement. Hasanov made the comments in an interview with RIA Novosti, his first-ever interview with foreign media.

    Through its membership in the Collective Security Treaty Organization, the Russia-led security bloc, “Armenia has made other countries hostages to their provocations,” Hasanov said. “They know that if no one intervenes in the situation, they wouldn’t last for three days. This is what happened in April 2016. If they hadn’t stopped us, the resistance would have been broken. In 40 minutes we ran over the lines of defense that the enemy had been building for many years.” The fighting last April was the worst since the two sides signed a ceasefire in 1994, killing at least 200 people and further hardening the distrust on both sides.

    Armenia “already on the second day” of fighting last April appealed to Russia to intervene, Hasanov said. As a result, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu called him, he recalled. “He said ‘this business’ had to stop, the leadership of the countries were going to talk about it.” A similar call was made by the chief of general staff of the Russian armed forces to his Azerbaijani counterpart, Hasanov said. http://www.eurasianet.org/node/84366

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    Hasanov said this, Hasanov said that.

    Hasanov, like the rest of the Aliev criminal gang squatting in Baku are lying, as usual.
    On the 3rd day, Aliev announced unilateral ceasefire*.
    Why?
    Nobody who is winning announces a unilateral ceasefire.

    Armenians had absorbed the surprise invasion and destroyed most of the invaders by the 3rd day.
    Armenian side lost about 100 fighters, and inflicted ~800 KIA on Azerbaijan.
    This estimate of 800 was given by independent Russian analytical side Ostkraft.
    (Armenian estimates of Turkbaijani KIA is much higher)
    Dozens of tanks and other armor/hardware were also destroyed.
    And at least two helicopters.
    One low flying helicopter carrying SpecOp commandos was shot down by a clever Armenian soldier using an anti-tank RPG, killing all on board.

    As 10s of 1,000 of armed Armenian volunteers - most experienced vets - from all over started pouring into Stepanakert on the 2nd day and Armenia started sending columns of long range artillery and Iskander missiles to Artsakh, preparing for a massive counterattack - Aliev wet himself and ran to Putin.
    Aliev begged Putin to force Armenians to stop the pending counterattack.
    Which they did.
    Unfortunately.

    Just like in 1994, when Artsakh's military had destroyed Azerbaijan's military and was getting ready to go all the way to Baku.
    Aliev Sr (Ilham's dad Heydar) ran to Moscow to beg for a ceasefire.
    Which Moscow forced on Armenians in May 1994.

    In that war Armenians lost ~6,000 KIA but inflicted ~35,000 KIA on the invaders: Turkbaijani troops, Afghan muj mercenaries, Arab mercenaries, Chechen volunteers, Ukrainian mercenaries,....all sorts of scum.

    The nomad savages squatting in Baku can't get it through their heads that they are nomads squatting on historic Armenian lands.


    __________
    *
    [Azerbaijan Announces Unilateral Cease-Fire After Sudden Flare-Up Of Violence]
    {Azerbaijan has announced a unilateral cease-fire in the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, where a recent flare-up of violence between Azerbaijani and separatist Armenian forces has left dozens of people dead.
    Separatist forces reject Azerbaijan's claims of a cease-fire, saying they see no sign that the government has stopped fighting, the Associated Press reports.}
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/03/472861335/azerbaijan-announces-unilateral-cease-fire-after-sudden-flare-up-of-violence

  114. @peterAUS
    Would you, please, post a source of those police killings in Germany?

    The incidents have been publicized in the Germany media over the last several months,and I have no clue as to how to locate a a specific singular “Source” regarding these actions.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well...I was thinking more along the line "let's see a couple of cases and figure out what happened".

    As always ...there are conflicting issue here.

    I'll start with the "bottom line".
    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how...."violence"....works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don't like (understatement) police/military/guns..."violence" (whatever that really means for them) etc.

    So...if police don't shoot they are often seen as impotent (chained by "other considerations", as political correctness etc.).

    Or..if they do shoot, they are "thugs out of control".

    There is always first an agenda to push (by either left, middle or right) and then...only then...we can see the facts.

    And....UNDERSTANDING those facts (acts of extreme violence) by people who've never been in a fistfight let alone in close firefight.........well......good luck with that.

    "They shouldn't shoot...they should've used less lethal force....they should've fired at legs/arms.....blah...blah...blah...".
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Who would have thought that using a search engine was quite beyond a Mensa Society member?

    https://www.thelocal.de/20160922/nearly-1000-killed-by-police-in-2015-10-in-germany

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/07/08/us-police-shootings-compared-australia-uk-and-germany

    Are you sure you haven't been bluffing all this time? The evidence suggests that you have.
  115. anon says: • Disclaimer

    “Vehemently rejecting the ceasefire, Amidror said that the Israeli army will “intervene and destroy every attempt to build (permanent Iranian) infrastructure in Syria.”

    Netanyahu’s equally charged statements during his European visit also point at the growing frustration in Tel Aviv.:”

    One hopes someone destroys Israeli infrastructures in US and UK Then shares the secrets with Germany ,Australia and Canada

    Read More
  116. A plane can´t make a steel building fall much less can 2 planes make 3 steel buildings fall. But nano-thermite can and it was found. Did OBL have access to nano-thermite ? In any case Israel gained most from the event.

    Read More
  117. peterAUS says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    The incidents have been publicized in the Germany media over the last several months,and I have no clue as to how to locate a a specific singular "Source" regarding these actions.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Well…I was thinking more along the line “let’s see a couple of cases and figure out what happened”.

    As always …there are conflicting issue here.

    I’ll start with the “bottom line”.
    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how….”violence”….works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don’t like (understatement) police/military/guns…”violence” (whatever that really means for them) etc.

    So…if police don’t shoot they are often seen as impotent (chained by “other considerations”, as political correctness etc.).

    Or..if they do shoot, they are “thugs out of control”.

    There is always first an agenda to push (by either left, middle or right) and then…only then…we can see the facts.

    And….UNDERSTANDING those facts (acts of extreme violence) by people who’ve never been in a fistfight let alone in close firefight………well……good luck with that.

    “They shouldn’t shoot…they should’ve used less lethal force….they should’ve fired at legs/arms…..blah…blah…blah…”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    "We wanted you to stop the threat and protect us -- but, ewww, not like THAT."
    , @L.K
    peterAUS:

    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how….”violence”….works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don’t like (understatement) police/military/guns…”violence” (whatever that really means for them
     
    Good grief, you are such a clown!

    You do realize you are writing this kind of crap under an article written by P. Giraldi, right?

    Phil Giraldi is a former CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer who spent twenty years overseas in Europe and the Middle East working terrorism cases.
  118. Avery says:
    @anon
    Festering conflicts need a balanced approach Sometimes Russia does Sometimes( or always ) US does

    "Russia intervened to stop Azerbaijan's advances in last year's conflict with Armenia, Azerbaijan's defense minister has said.

    While some Russian behind-the-scenes role in stopping the fighting had been known, Defense Minister Zakir Hasanov provided some new details and suggested that Azerbaijan would have made more military advances if not for Moscow's involvement. Hasanov made the comments in an interview with RIA Novosti, his first-ever interview with foreign media.

    Through its membership in the Collective Security Treaty Organization, the Russia-led security bloc, "Armenia has made other countries hostages to their provocations," Hasanov said. "They know that if no one intervenes in the situation, they wouldn't last for three days. This is what happened in April 2016. If they hadn't stopped us, the resistance would have been broken. In 40 minutes we ran over the lines of defense that the enemy had been building for many years." The fighting last April was the worst since the two sides signed a ceasefire in 1994, killing at least 200 people and further hardening the distrust on both sides.

    Armenia "already on the second day" of fighting last April appealed to Russia to intervene, Hasanov said. As a result, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu called him, he recalled. "He said 'this business' had to stop, the leadership of the countries were going to talk about it." A similar call was made by the chief of general staff of the Russian armed forces to his Azerbaijani counterpart, Hasanov said. http://www.eurasianet.org/node/84366

    Hasanov said this, Hasanov said that.

    Hasanov, like the rest of the Aliev criminal gang squatting in Baku are lying, as usual.
    On the 3rd day, Aliev announced unilateral ceasefire*.
    Why?
    Nobody who is winning announces a unilateral ceasefire.

    Armenians had absorbed the surprise invasion and destroyed most of the invaders by the 3rd day.
    Armenian side lost about 100 fighters, and inflicted ~800 KIA on Azerbaijan.
    This estimate of 800 was given by independent Russian analytical side Ostkraft.
    (Armenian estimates of Turkbaijani KIA is much higher)
    Dozens of tanks and other armor/hardware were also destroyed.
    And at least two helicopters.
    One low flying helicopter carrying SpecOp commandos was shot down by a clever Armenian soldier using an anti-tank RPG, killing all on board.

    As 10s of 1,000 of armed Armenian volunteers – most experienced vets – from all over started pouring into Stepanakert on the 2nd day and Armenia started sending columns of long range artillery and Iskander missiles to Artsakh, preparing for a massive counterattack – Aliev wet himself and ran to Putin.
    Aliev begged Putin to force Armenians to stop the pending counterattack.
    Which they did.
    Unfortunately.

    Just like in 1994, when Artsakh’s military had destroyed Azerbaijan’s military and was getting ready to go all the way to Baku.
    Aliev Sr (Ilham’s dad Heydar) ran to Moscow to beg for a ceasefire.
    Which Moscow forced on Armenians in May 1994.

    In that war Armenians lost ~6,000 KIA but inflicted ~35,000 KIA on the invaders: Turkbaijani troops, Afghan muj mercenaries, Arab mercenaries, Chechen volunteers, Ukrainian mercenaries,….all sorts of scum.

    The nomad savages squatting in Baku can’t get it through their heads that they are nomads squatting on historic Armenian lands.

    __________
    *
    [Azerbaijan Announces Unilateral Cease-Fire After Sudden Flare-Up Of Violence]
    {Azerbaijan has announced a unilateral cease-fire in the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, where a recent flare-up of violence between Azerbaijani and separatist Armenian forces has left dozens of people dead.
    Separatist forces reject Azerbaijan’s claims of a cease-fire, saying they see no sign that the government has stopped fighting, the Associated Press reports.}

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/03/472861335/azerbaijan-announces-unilateral-cease-fire-after-sudden-flare-up-of-violence

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    [Somewhere between Yerevan and Stepanakert]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_QP-ICgkBY

    Long range artillery and missiles moving from Yerevan to Stepanakert on the 2nd day of the 4-day war, in preparation of a counterattack.
  119. Joe Wong says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.
     
    This is nothing new.

    What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.

    Any time humans have power over others, that power needs to be limited and counterbalanced. This is always an issue with police forces. Anybody who's lived a little has seen examples, going way back, of how hard it is to maintain this balance.

    Some people are just newly aware of this eternal issue now because cops have more toys and everything looks like it was built for Darth Vader.

    As for the non-sequitur in this case, Israel, it is a good place to learn how to keep unwanted people out of your country (clue: walls work) and how to profile those among whom criminals operate. It is where one can unlearn American political correctness with regard to law enforcement. The key again is balance -- between learning what is useful, and leaving out the abuses which, yes yes yes, we all know exist.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again. Re-learning good manners would help them grease the wheels with cops too.

    American said the regimes imposing law and order to balance good manners in the public and irresponsible freedom mischief is authoritarian or communist that needs to be regime changed via CIA or NED sponsored NGOs engineered color revolution if not thru bombing and killing on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention.

    You are demanding good manner in the public and respect of authority in the USA, it seems the USA fits very well the definition of an authoritarian or communist regime, I guess a regime change via color revolution or bombing and killing on a fabricated allegation as humanitarian intervention should be on order to cure the sickness prevailing in the USA.

    Read More
  120. utu says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    " American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their european counterparts".

    American police are clearly out of control"

    Total nonsense.

    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals who had displayed mental or drug issues, and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force, such is always demanded of the US police by the european media.

    And of course since the Germans/Europeans are now the good guys, and DT's America is the nation of the bad guys, the the media manages to explain away every case of the fatal shooting of someone in Germany/Europe, while never even considering the possibility of a justified action on behalf of the US police.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals

    Police in Germany kill more than you think

    http://www.dw.com/en/police-in-germany-kill-more-than-you-think/a-38822484

    an average of about 10 fatal police shootings in Germany per year.

    10 per year as opposed to 1000 per year in the US is still 25 times lower rate per capita than in the US.

    and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force

    “The cases of death that are reported here are not like in the US, where unarmed minorities are shot,” Behr said. “As a rule, there is not an intent to kill,” he added.(from the article above)

    You are very sloppy in reporting what you read. Actually I wonder what is your reading comprehension. Ask your MENSA friends to retest you.

    Read More
  121. Avery says:
    @Avery
    Hasanov said this, Hasanov said that.

    Hasanov, like the rest of the Aliev criminal gang squatting in Baku are lying, as usual.
    On the 3rd day, Aliev announced unilateral ceasefire*.
    Why?
    Nobody who is winning announces a unilateral ceasefire.

    Armenians had absorbed the surprise invasion and destroyed most of the invaders by the 3rd day.
    Armenian side lost about 100 fighters, and inflicted ~800 KIA on Azerbaijan.
    This estimate of 800 was given by independent Russian analytical side Ostkraft.
    (Armenian estimates of Turkbaijani KIA is much higher)
    Dozens of tanks and other armor/hardware were also destroyed.
    And at least two helicopters.
    One low flying helicopter carrying SpecOp commandos was shot down by a clever Armenian soldier using an anti-tank RPG, killing all on board.

    As 10s of 1,000 of armed Armenian volunteers - most experienced vets - from all over started pouring into Stepanakert on the 2nd day and Armenia started sending columns of long range artillery and Iskander missiles to Artsakh, preparing for a massive counterattack - Aliev wet himself and ran to Putin.
    Aliev begged Putin to force Armenians to stop the pending counterattack.
    Which they did.
    Unfortunately.

    Just like in 1994, when Artsakh's military had destroyed Azerbaijan's military and was getting ready to go all the way to Baku.
    Aliev Sr (Ilham's dad Heydar) ran to Moscow to beg for a ceasefire.
    Which Moscow forced on Armenians in May 1994.

    In that war Armenians lost ~6,000 KIA but inflicted ~35,000 KIA on the invaders: Turkbaijani troops, Afghan muj mercenaries, Arab mercenaries, Chechen volunteers, Ukrainian mercenaries,....all sorts of scum.

    The nomad savages squatting in Baku can't get it through their heads that they are nomads squatting on historic Armenian lands.


    __________
    *
    [Azerbaijan Announces Unilateral Cease-Fire After Sudden Flare-Up Of Violence]
    {Azerbaijan has announced a unilateral cease-fire in the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh, where a recent flare-up of violence between Azerbaijani and separatist Armenian forces has left dozens of people dead.
    Separatist forces reject Azerbaijan's claims of a cease-fire, saying they see no sign that the government has stopped fighting, the Associated Press reports.}
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/03/472861335/azerbaijan-announces-unilateral-cease-fire-after-sudden-flare-up-of-violence

    [Somewhere between Yerevan and Stepanakert]

    Long range artillery and missiles moving from Yerevan to Stepanakert on the 2nd day of the 4-day war, in preparation of a counterattack.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Wow, almost like the Wehrmacht.
    , @iffen
    The myth of cooperation in the Muslim world is as enduring as the myth of cooperation in Christendom

    Winner! Winner! Chicken dinner!
  122. KA says:

    Angelo Codevilla’s recommendations for Iran policy are predictably ridiculous:

    The agreement lifted Iran’s economy from its dire state. But the bulk of the new wealth has gone to weapons, foreign adventures, corruption and other inefficient investment bringing little benefit to the Iranian people. Were harsher sanctions to bite now, they might well produce a revolution.

    All we need is sufficient courage to impose broad sanctions on a secondary basis. That is: no U.S. entity will be allowed to deal with any entity anywhere that deals with the sanctioned part of Iran’s economy – banking and money transfer, energy, food and all manner of parts for industrial equipment.

    The first part of this is not true. Most of what little sanctions relief Iran has received has not gone to those other things, but has been spent on development and infrastructure.http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/the-cruelty-of-iran-hawks/

    Can someone hold her hand ask where the American taxpayers money go ??

    Read More
  123. @Avery
    [Somewhere between Yerevan and Stepanakert]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_QP-ICgkBY

    Long range artillery and missiles moving from Yerevan to Stepanakert on the 2nd day of the 4-day war, in preparation of a counterattack.

    Wow, almost like the Wehrmacht.

    Read More
  124. @in the middle
    the Australian lady failed to re-learn that American cops are killers! I guess. She should have not called 911; did so at her own peril. Americans are learning that now as in the old west, we need to arm ourselves and take care of the issue at hand, since calling for police assistance, can be their last actions on earth. God bless Florida for the stand your ground law. Once we all have that all over the country, then those thuggish cops will be irrelevant. We do need to support our sheriff departments: They are well respected and with good reason. Sheriffs are for the most part not in the killing innocents business.

    Noor was not an American policeman. He was an inbred, 85-IQ, Muslim affirmative action hire wearing a police uniform.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Not 85, that's the average IQ of American blacks. He's Somalian average IQ 68. Given that he has a degree from Augsberg remedial college, his IQ is probably very high for a Somalian, maybe 75.
    , @chris
    So what's the excuse of average American cops with stratospheric IQs when they do the same thing?
  125. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Beefcake the Mighty
    Wow, almost like the Wehrmacht.

    Where are the horses?

    Read More
  126. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    This morning the Senate Judiciary Committee held a hearing on enforcement of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, and out of the blue South Carolina’s Lindsey Graham brought up AIPAC — the Israel lobby group the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. AIPAC comes to Capitol Hill “in droves” and has a lot of contacts in Israel so maybe it should be considered a “foreign agent?” Graham aske

    http://mondoweiss.net/2017/07/lindsey-whether-capitol/

    Is something out there that was not there before ? A crack in the congenitally deferential attitude the AIPAC??

    Read More
  127. @Tony
    Hey giraldi, do they actually pay you for writing this bullshit?

    Giraldi and others need to realize that these trips to Israel are not “training”, and they have absolutely no impact on American police procedures, which are governed by statute and case law. These trips are PR junkets for Chief and Captain-level administrators, who watch some dog-and-pony shows in the morning and then enjoy the Mediterranean sun-sand-’n-surf for the rest of the day. The well-tanned Admin pogues don’t come back and start giving innovative firearms and defensive tactics training based on their Israeli experiences, and if they did, they would be quickly reprimanded, since all use-of-force training is overseen by state commissions which are very jealous of their legal mandate to set standards.

    All that happens is that los jefes grandes are then able to add a high-speed “Israeli CT class” to their cv’s, which gives them a leg up in the promotion process.

    Read More
  128. @Simply Simon
    It would not take much effort to nationalize the nation's city and state police forces. A considerable amount of work has already been accomplished in standardizing police equipment and training throughout the country. With a nationalized police force, Federalized national guard units, and the US Army, ordinary citizens would be helpless if these forces were arrayed against them regardless how many individual weapons the citizens might possess.

    When you’re running the numbers, don’t forget that females with zero combat capability make up a sizeable percentage of both U.S. police and military. Also, the raw numbers for the armed forces don’t reflect that the majority of uniformed “servicemembers” are noncombat support personnel, who have received rudimentary firearms training in Basic, but who simply work as uniformed boxpushers and bottle washers in order to get the proverbial “three hots and a cot”.

    For a real treat, go to your local base someday and watch the unwed enlisted moms waddling around in their baggy BDUs. Intimidation Factor: Zero.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simply Simon
    SR42: I agree with your comments that a sizable number of service members are noncombat support personnel. And I think that "pregnant soldier" has to be a classic oxymoron. But still I feel strongly that the trained combat forces that we do have would overwhelmingly defeat any militia even comprising millions of civilians.. Who would lead this militia and what would be their tactics? I was living in Washington DC in 1972 when race riots threatened to shut down the city. President Nixon called in elements of the 82nd Airborne Division which rapidly entered DC and patrolled streets and bridges. Each paratrooper was fully armed and as I crossed the 14th Street bridge the sight of these troopers lining the bridge was sobering indeed. One did not need to have military experience to know this was a well-disciplined force led by competent officers and NCOs who would not tolerate nonsense by unruly rioters. The city was very quiet at that time, almost eerily so. Having stated the above, I sincerely believe that America will never come to such a desperate situation that our citizens will have to rise up against the government. It would be national suicide if it did.
  129. @mr meener
    means nothing the weapons they got cause local guys know where the cops and military guys families are. that is their giant weakness

    If the $#!t ever does hit the fan, most married cops will stay home to protect their families. After the first 24 hours of any historical-level event, the Blue Flu will reach Biblical proportions, and the PD’s and Sheriff’s Depts. will cease to have any impact on the matter.

    Read More
  130. @peterAUS
    Well...I was thinking more along the line "let's see a couple of cases and figure out what happened".

    As always ...there are conflicting issue here.

    I'll start with the "bottom line".
    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how...."violence"....works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don't like (understatement) police/military/guns..."violence" (whatever that really means for them) etc.

    So...if police don't shoot they are often seen as impotent (chained by "other considerations", as political correctness etc.).

    Or..if they do shoot, they are "thugs out of control".

    There is always first an agenda to push (by either left, middle or right) and then...only then...we can see the facts.

    And....UNDERSTANDING those facts (acts of extreme violence) by people who've never been in a fistfight let alone in close firefight.........well......good luck with that.

    "They shouldn't shoot...they should've used less lethal force....they should've fired at legs/arms.....blah...blah...blah...".

    “We wanted you to stop the threat and protect us — but, ewww, not like THAT.”

    Read More
  131. @Authenticjazzman
    " American police are far more likely to employ deadly force than their european counterparts".

    American police are clearly out of control"

    Total nonsense.

    Over the past few months German police have killed ca. a dozen individuals who had displayed mental or drug issues, and they did not attempt to shoot them in the legs or use any other than lethal force, such is always demanded of the US police by the european media.

    And of course since the Germans/Europeans are now the good guys, and DT's America is the nation of the bad guys, the the media manages to explain away every case of the fatal shooting of someone in Germany/Europe, while never even considering the possibility of a justified action on behalf of the US police.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

    Escuse me for daring to question one of the greatest intellects of our time, if not ever, but how does anything that you’ve written validate your claim the Beefcake’s comment was nonsense? Thanks.

    Read More
  132. Alden says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.
    In 2001 in the USA a USA friend called the police 'the internal army'.
    Since then the police has been militarised, they got armoured personnel carriers, even tanks and armour piercing ammunition.
    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens.
    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    If you don’t mind my asking, what contact did you have with the American police in 1978?

    Read More
  133. I can assure one and all that in the Pacific Northwest, police training has not been “militarized” in the least. In fact, the opposite has happened, as cops are re-purposed as social workers with badges and grinning PR props for “community initiatives”. Use-of-force, and in fact crimefighting of any sort, is now an afterthought, and the only remaining vestige of the paramilitary model is the rank titles of Sgt., Lt., etc.

    As evidence, I offer this video from WA trumpeting the move away from a “military model” to produce “guardians instead of warriors.” Pay special attention to the bony little MILF whom the politicians have placed in charge of the State Academy. Does she seriously look like she’s interested in using Israeli training methods to produce legions of ruthless hitmen?

    As an example of the pussification of PNW police, the recruits at the WA Academy are no longer required to do any sort of physical fitness training after a leisurely Cooper test on their first day. It is occasionally suggested that they should do some sort of exercise on their own time, but they do not have to run a single step or do a single pushup after Day One.

    This is the reality of American police training today, not some imaginary Israeli death-squad initiation. Paradoxically, this lack of attention to use-of-force training is a major factor in the inability of the average American cop to successfully conclude a physical arrest or self-defense situation.

    Read More
  134. Alden says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Noor was not an American policeman. He was an inbred, 85-IQ, Muslim affirmative action hire wearing a police uniform.

    Not 85, that’s the average IQ of American blacks. He’s Somalian average IQ 68. Given that he has a degree from Augsberg remedial college, his IQ is probably very high for a Somalian, maybe 75.

    Read More
  135. @Authenticjazzman
    The incidents have been publicized in the Germany media over the last several months,and I have no clue as to how to locate a a specific singular "Source" regarding these actions.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Who would have thought that using a search engine was quite beyond a Mensa Society member?

    https://www.thelocal.de/20160922/nearly-1000-killed-by-police-in-2015-10-in-germany

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/07/08/us-police-shootings-compared-australia-uk-and-germany

    Are you sure you haven’t been bluffing all this time? The evidence suggests that you have.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    "Are you sure you haven't been bluffing all this time?"

    Okay here is the actual situation : As a fervent Jazz performer, I am still trying to blow the perfect solo, and I really don't have the time or patience for such trivial matters as "Search engines".

    So if you are miffed or dissatisified with "Mensa" awarding membership to such "Unqualified" (according to your criteria) individuals as myself, then why don't you simply contact them and demand that they rescind my membership and perhaps they will ask me to return my gold-embossed membership certificate which I have held since 1973.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member of forty years-plus, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz artist.

    PS = Regarding my inability to deal with "Search engines" which is really a pain in the butt, : Einstein reportedly flunked Math as a student.

  136. @Anon
    Where are the horses?

    Good question, I guess the Armenians ate them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {...I guess the Armenians ate them.}

    Nope, Dr. Bovine M.D.: your diagnosis is wrong. Again.
    Armenians don't eat horses.
    We eat sheeps, beefs, chickens, turkeys, and sometimes pigs.

    It's youse barn dwelling cannibalistic Schweinhunden who eat each other.
  137. Avery says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty
    Good question, I guess the Armenians ate them.

    {…I guess the Armenians ate them.}

    Nope, Dr. Bovine M.D.: your diagnosis is wrong. Again.
    Armenians don’t eat horses.
    We eat sheeps, beefs, chickens, turkeys, and sometimes pigs.

    It’s youse barn dwelling cannibalistic Schweinhunden who eat each other.

    Read More
  138. Art says:
    @Talha
    Yo Avery,

    If Hezbollah had taken on IDF out in the open, they would not do so well.
     
    Yup - when you have zero air force assets, that's about the stupidest thing one can do.

    Your (and other's) assessment of Arab armies is pretty spot on - the Muslim world is probably not going to do well on the offense in any situation at this point unless against a totally over-matched opponent. Even this is a toss up - look at Saudi's disastrous war in Yemen (then again, Egypt didn't do well there either a few decades ago). But Hezbollah and other irregular forces have shown that a well-planned defense to make the enemy pay dearly for each inch of territory is the way to go. And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something), then basically nobody will willingly send their people into a meat-grinder where Muslim volunteers from all over the world are pouring in. This is an excellent moral position to be in when it comes to war.

    Peace.

    And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something)

    Talha,

    Russia could advance world peace if it would ramp up production and sell s-300′s and s-400′s to the ME. Sell them to Egypt first.

    They are pure defensive weapons. Defense is moral.

    Israel will not risk its planes – they are 80% of their war making power.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires. They do not have the water to put out the fires.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Art,

    They are pure defensive weapons. Defense is moral.
     
    That is exactly the direction I would like the militaries of the various Muslim countries to go and with joint cooperation.

    Yes Russia could sell them the anti-aircraft weaponry they need, but my preference would be for them to have independent manufacturing capability. If you are dependent on others, then unfortunately you subject to their political concerns . Which means if Neo-cons are able to put enough pressure on Russia or give it the right national incentive to change its military sales strategy, then these nations are left high and dry.


    The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires.
     
    Probably true, but even when it concerns the Israelis, I am against indiscriminate warfare on principle - it is immoral. Their crimes do not justify crimes by our hands - they are not our teachers.

    Peace.

    , @Cloak And Dagger
    That is a plausible scenario, Art.

    In the past, the Soviet Union had good relationship with many ME countries, and Russia could probably restart such collaboration in the current climate of disdain for the US. Iran and Syria are already beneficiaries of Russian armament, and Turkey is drawing ever closer to withdrawing from NATO and joining the Russian enclave. The Saudi Arabians are a lost cause and likely to be in the Israeli camp. There is some hope for Egypt if the Arab Spring finds life again - probably not in the short term. If Iraq finds stability post-ISIS, they are already patching things up with Iran and would be a good candidate for Russian influence. Not sure when Libya can recover from "We came, we saw, he died (cackle, cackle)" and the subsequent chaos. No leadership is apparent there after Gadaffi. Pakistan is fast spinning out of the US orbit. They are already strengthening ties with China, and a Russian alliance is not inconceivable.

    The above could achieve critical mass and become a major deterrent to US/Israeli mischief in the region. Moreover, if the ME does unite, it is curtains for Israel. So, Talha, your wishes may not be that far-fetched after all.

  139. @Alden
    Not 85, that's the average IQ of American blacks. He's Somalian average IQ 68. Given that he has a degree from Augsberg remedial college, his IQ is probably very high for a Somalian, maybe 75.

    Thank you, sir. I stand corrected.

    Read More
  140. Talha says:
    @Art
    And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something)

    Talha,

    Russia could advance world peace if it would ramp up production and sell s-300's and s-400's to the ME. Sell them to Egypt first.

    They are pure defensive weapons. Defense is moral.

    Israel will not risk its planes - they are 80% of their war making power.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires. They do not have the water to put out the fires.

    Hey Art,

    They are pure defensive weapons. Defense is moral.

    That is exactly the direction I would like the militaries of the various Muslim countries to go and with joint cooperation.

    Yes Russia could sell them the anti-aircraft weaponry they need, but my preference would be for them to have independent manufacturing capability. If you are dependent on others, then unfortunately you subject to their political concerns . Which means if Neo-cons are able to put enough pressure on Russia or give it the right national incentive to change its military sales strategy, then these nations are left high and dry.

    The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires.

    Probably true, but even when it concerns the Israelis, I am against indiscriminate warfare on principle – it is immoral. Their crimes do not justify crimes by our hands – they are not our teachers.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires.

    Probably true, but even when it concerns the Israelis, I am against indiscriminate warfare on principle – it is immoral.
     
    I agree 100% - I personally do NOT want anyone to die in the ME. I want the Matrix Jews to compensate the Palestinian people for their pain and suffering.

    Building effective ground to air missiles requires hi-tech infrastructure. Perhaps only Iran has that capability.

    If Egypt were to get s-400’s the whole balance of power in the ME would change for the better.

    Peace --- Art
  141. @Art
    And if a good anti-air capability can be developed (this is the kind of thing I wish Pakistan/Turkey/Iran/Egypt would be jointly cooperating on with the Chinese or something)

    Talha,

    Russia could advance world peace if it would ramp up production and sell s-300's and s-400's to the ME. Sell them to Egypt first.

    They are pure defensive weapons. Defense is moral.

    Israel will not risk its planes - they are 80% of their war making power.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires. They do not have the water to put out the fires.

    That is a plausible scenario, Art.

    In the past, the Soviet Union had good relationship with many ME countries, and Russia could probably restart such collaboration in the current climate of disdain for the US. Iran and Syria are already beneficiaries of Russian armament, and Turkey is drawing ever closer to withdrawing from NATO and joining the Russian enclave. The Saudi Arabians are a lost cause and likely to be in the Israeli camp. There is some hope for Egypt if the Arab Spring finds life again – probably not in the short term. If Iraq finds stability post-ISIS, they are already patching things up with Iran and would be a good candidate for Russian influence. Not sure when Libya can recover from “We came, we saw, he died (cackle, cackle)” and the subsequent chaos. No leadership is apparent there after Gadaffi. Pakistan is fast spinning out of the US orbit. They are already strengthening ties with China, and a Russian alliance is not inconceivable.

    The above could achieve critical mass and become a major deterrent to US/Israeli mischief in the region. Moreover, if the ME does unite, it is curtains for Israel. So, Talha, your wishes may not be that far-fetched after all.

    Read More
  142. @NoseytheDuke
    Who would have thought that using a search engine was quite beyond a Mensa Society member?

    https://www.thelocal.de/20160922/nearly-1000-killed-by-police-in-2015-10-in-germany

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/07/08/us-police-shootings-compared-australia-uk-and-germany

    Are you sure you haven't been bluffing all this time? The evidence suggests that you have.

    “Are you sure you haven’t been bluffing all this time?”

    Okay here is the actual situation : As a fervent Jazz performer, I am still trying to blow the perfect solo, and I really don’t have the time or patience for such trivial matters as “Search engines”.

    So if you are miffed or dissatisified with “Mensa” awarding membership to such “Unqualified” (according to your criteria) individuals as myself, then why don’t you simply contact them and demand that they rescind my membership and perhaps they will ask me to return my gold-embossed membership certificate which I have held since 1973.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member of forty years-plus, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro jazz artist.

    PS = Regarding my inability to deal with “Search engines” which is really a pain in the butt, : Einstein reportedly flunked Math as a student.

    Read More
  143. DEAR Mr. Giraldi,

    I had hope you would respond to my relevant question.

    To reiterate, the question is, does the CIA & FBI get trained by the Mossad similar to our police departments?

    Read More
  144. Canadian and UK police (and who else?) are also going to Israel for training. It seems to be a program for homogenizing and hardening police practices internationally. Who can get such an operation under way and secure such widespread participation?

    Read More
  145. woodNfish says:
    @jilles dykstra
    Already when I first visited the USA in 1978 I discovered that USA police expect to be feared, while we in W Europe are accustomed to see police as our friend, the USA is quite different.
    In 2001 in the USA a USA friend called the police 'the internal army'.
    Since then the police has been militarised, they got armoured personnel carriers, even tanks and armour piercing ammunition.
    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens.
    And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens. And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.

    You listen to too much of the leftist fake news. The US is the largest welfare state in the world. But since you are obviously a disarmed European sheep, how’s that goat fucking muslim invasion you have no way of stopping working out for you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    you are obviously a disarmed European sheep
     
    Oh....THAT......again.....
    The endless self-aggrandizing bullshit.

    Please, remind us again, when was the last time the (non-European) armed tigers (presumably Americans) SERIOUSLY faced the power of the state.
    I'd say in the War of Independence (you know....muskets etc.).

    As for European sheep, how about just:
    OAS in France.
    IRA...of course....
    Slovenes.
    Croats.
    Russian themselves when repelling the anti-Gorbachev coup.
    Chechens in the First Chechen War.
    Russians again in the events around battle for the White House.
    Muslims in Bosnia.
    Albanians in Kosovo, Macedonia.

    Americans....?!

    Please...just one event/battle.
    Just one.

    The truth is simple.
    You can NOT challenge the power of the state with the weapons in civilian/public possession.
    You use that weapons to get the real gear and then...only then...you can try to do what you hope to do.
  146. woodNfish says:

    The engagement of American police forces with Israeli security services began modestly enough in the wake of 9/11.

    The militarization of our police forces began back in the late 60′s with the advent of SWAT teams. I doubt Israel had anything to do with it. Most police forces were corrupt well before that as the DNC convention riots back in the 60′s and the great Chicago fire in the 1800s prove. The only difference now is the internet. We are all learning just how bad it is because the leftist fake news filter can no longer hide the truth from us.

    I agree with one of the other commenters that cops are often thugs and if you trust them, you are a fool.

    Read More
  147. To Rurik :

    Okay so just wtf is “Barouche” culture?

    Does it perhaps have anything to do with the counter-reformation era of architecture, painting, music etc.

    Look anyone who misspells such a well known word has no business labeling others regarding their factual postings as : “Troll”

    You are full of it, and you can’t bullshit folks in the know.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    anyone who misspells such a well known word
     
    .
    my spelling is atrocious

    if it weren't for spell check, you'd barely be able to read it

    but then I don't go around reminding everyone of what an amazing genius I am, and berating them for not paying me enough homage for my greatness

    I've noticed you occasionally make a salient point, but then it's all wasted by your idiotic preening and tiresome self-praise.

    And there's nothing to be proud of anyways even if you are a member of Mensa, since they rarely accomplish anything of consequence other than patting each other on the back.

    Give me a person of average intellect all day long with integrity and character and a willingness to speak the truth, over self-congratulating group of IQ test-takers and smug peacocks telling everyone how smart they are. If they're so smart, why don't they do something or say something of consequence that proves it, rather than preening all day long and annoying people.
  148. @peterAUS
    Agree.

    The book "Why Arabs Lose Wars" is, IMHO, must read for anyone wanting to understand Arab military capability.

    I do have first hand experience in training of Arab military personnel.

    Nepotism, corruption, lack of hard work, lack of discipline...list goes on.
    Homosexuality............(now, that is an interesting topic with Arab societies).

    As for the IDF, well.....I've read their analysis of the debacle with Hezbollah.
    They have been working on remedying it.

    Somebody would even think that the current mess in Syria is a direct result of that.

    I drunk whiskey, in the restroom no less, of the Soviet Embassy in Tripoli in early 1980s with air defense adviser who drunk (Whiskey was his, despite alcohol being forbidden in Jamaheriya) as he said because he taught Libyans (for S-200 IIRC) and the process was excruciating for him. Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations which require the use of all bells and whistles which come with those–from inter-service (inter-force) coordination to using properly a whole spectrum of military technology. Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA’s General Staff is still very low.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA’s General Staff is still very low.
     
    Well, I really doubt it.

    After all this time SAA simply can't do any combined arms operation above the level of small brigade, and even that not well.
    I simply haven't seen the basics yet....artillery support of mechanized attack in daytime, just at battalion level (close support of attack/assault that is).
    Let alone the same at night.

    I believe the cause is really cultural (probably racial too....).

    I mean, they have Russian air support, technology, advisers and specialists...and still can't do the very basics after all this time.

    Actually, personally, I believe that even Russians got surprised, after getting into it, how bad SAA was/is.
    I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over.
    And, then, when watching/analyzing SAA ground forces I got that they simply can't do that. And IMHO, they will never get it.
    , @Talha
    Hey Andrei,

    Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations
     
    This is awesome - any time they are getting those capabilities they are not generally using them for any good. This will keep them in a defensive posture for the foreseeable future - which is good news. They only need the capability to deny the enemy combined arms operations over their airspace.

    No nation that I can think of wants to march into Muslim lands without air cover.

    Peace.

    *Note: I've been wondering why these nations don't take up some kind of relationship with South Africa's arms manufacturers to help them widen their base of customers and invest into it to increase R & D to make it become a bigger player on the world scene. South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class. But maybe you know something I don't and that they don't produce good quality stuff.
  149. @ChuckOrloski
    DEAR Mr. Giraldi,

    I had hope you would respond to my relevant question.

    To reiterate, the question is, does the CIA & FBI get trained by the Mossad similar to our police departments?

    No

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    Given your distinguished career to date, I am gratified by the 2-letter reply to my question.

    Almost every Sunday at 8 pm, I watch "Columbo" on MeTV. So forgive me for asking one more thing.

    Is the CIA and FBI hierarchy effectively autonomous and capable of action independent to the interests and will of Israel?

    A concrete example is the > 30 year CIA effort to destabilize Iran's Islamic government. Could the CIA take action to destabilize our 3 branch ZUSA government?

    Either yes or no will do & God bless you!
  150. chris says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Noor was not an American policeman. He was an inbred, 85-IQ, Muslim affirmative action hire wearing a police uniform.

    So what’s the excuse of average American cops with stratospheric IQs when they do the same thing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    If I may.
    Reason: ...."Fuck them"....."my life/life of my partner vs YOU....fuck you..."....."if in doubt shoot until the threat is down...."....nobody will care for me if I get shot......not the top brass...not the politicians...and hell no these civilians....."....."you want me to risk my life for YOU for this pay and showing me no respect...just contempt....yeah...."......etc...etc....

    Reasons are structural.
    The real problem is with society itself; policing is just a symptom.
    , @SteveRogers42
    "The same thing"...

    Please cite an example of a White American cop who leans across his partner to shoot through the door of his patrol car, killing an unarmed female who is reporting a crime in an upscale neighborhood.

    If you are honestly seeking answers about unsatisfactory conclusions to use-of-force incidents, please see my prior comments about the pitiful state of contemporary police training. Simply put, PD's don't make any particular effort to hire strong, capable men who are comfortable in high-stress physical situations, and the people who ARE hired are given neither the quality nor frequency of training that would enable them to perform at a high level of competence.

    To police administrators, this is a feature, not a bug.
  151. peterAUS says:
    @woodNfish

    I suppose the cause is USA society, no pity for the poor, more weapons with citizens than the number of citizens. And of course the death penalty, criminals know what to expect when they have been arrested.
     
    You listen to too much of the leftist fake news. The US is the largest welfare state in the world. But since you are obviously a disarmed European sheep, how's that goat fucking muslim invasion you have no way of stopping working out for you?

    you are obviously a disarmed European sheep

    Oh….THAT……again…..
    The endless self-aggrandizing bullshit.

    Please, remind us again, when was the last time the (non-European) armed tigers (presumably Americans) SERIOUSLY faced the power of the state.
    I’d say in the War of Independence (you know….muskets etc.).

    As for European sheep, how about just:
    OAS in France.
    IRA…of course….
    Slovenes.
    Croats.
    Russian themselves when repelling the anti-Gorbachev coup.
    Chechens in the First Chechen War.
    Russians again in the events around battle for the White House.
    Muslims in Bosnia.
    Albanians in Kosovo, Macedonia.

    Americans….?!

    Please…just one event/battle.
    Just one.

    The truth is simple.
    You can NOT challenge the power of the state with the weapons in civilian/public possession.
    You use that weapons to get the real gear and then…only then…you can try to do what you hope to do.

    Read More
  152. peterAUS says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    I drunk whiskey, in the restroom no less, of the Soviet Embassy in Tripoli in early 1980s with air defense adviser who drunk (Whiskey was his, despite alcohol being forbidden in Jamaheriya) as he said because he taught Libyans (for S-200 IIRC) and the process was excruciating for him. Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations which require the use of all bells and whistles which come with those--from inter-service (inter-force) coordination to using properly a whole spectrum of military technology. Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA's General Staff is still very low.

    Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA’s General Staff is still very low.

    Well, I really doubt it.

    After all this time SAA simply can’t do any combined arms operation above the level of small brigade, and even that not well.
    I simply haven’t seen the basics yet….artillery support of mechanized attack in daytime, just at battalion level (close support of attack/assault that is).
    Let alone the same at night.

    I believe the cause is really cultural (probably racial too….).

    I mean, they have Russian air support, technology, advisers and specialists…and still can’t do the very basics after all this time.

    Actually, personally, I believe that even Russians got surprised, after getting into it, how bad SAA was/is.
    I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over.
    And, then, when watching/analyzing SAA ground forces I got that they simply can’t do that. And IMHO, they will never get it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bukephalos
    I know Arab armies have the reputation of not performing well in such operations, and it's possible the SAA is still lacking in this department- however observing the current conflict wouldn't be really useful to reach this conclusion.

    It's essentially a war against militias and urban sieges, all the time. At all time militants blend with civilians or take them hostages. No chance to apply state of the art tactics against conventional enemy formations. For the same reasons, US forces failed in Iraq when the war entered its insurrectional phase. There is no way you win these types of conflicts in six months

    , @L.K
    You are laughable. Your whole post about the war in Syria is a mere caricature.

    Look at the kind of shit you write: "I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over."

    What a ridiculous statement... only someone who knows very little about the war in Syria or ... someone with deep seated prejudices and an agenda could write such idiocies... in your case, given that you seem to post over at MoA, and the author there, a retired German army officer, has been doing a solid job covering the war in Syria, the only explanation is that you really are pretty dishonest.

    For now though, you said the useless Syrians cannot win the war - while totally ignoring the role of the ZUSA & friends - even though they are only fighting "militias"....

    First, let me say those "militias" are much better armed, funded and supported and numerous than the Taliban.

    Now, the ZUSA and the criminal Brits, plus smaller NATO contingents, and the Afghan forces they have raised, are fighting what, exactly?

    The Taliban is a militia, no? The ZUSA coalition has been there since 01 and there is no comparison at all between the modest resources available to the Syrian military and the US and British forces...

    Yet, no victory. I'm sure you'll come up with a clever explanation(bullshitting) for all that, though...

    Stalinist liar martyanov certainly would...

    Anyway, despite the ZUSA's criminal coalition best efforts, Syria & its allies are winning the war. But you knew that already.
  153. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov
    I drunk whiskey, in the restroom no less, of the Soviet Embassy in Tripoli in early 1980s with air defense adviser who drunk (Whiskey was his, despite alcohol being forbidden in Jamaheriya) as he said because he taught Libyans (for S-200 IIRC) and the process was excruciating for him. Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations which require the use of all bells and whistles which come with those--from inter-service (inter-force) coordination to using properly a whole spectrum of military technology. Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA's General Staff is still very low.

    Hey Andrei,

    Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations

    This is awesome – any time they are getting those capabilities they are not generally using them for any good. This will keep them in a defensive posture for the foreseeable future – which is good news. They only need the capability to deny the enemy combined arms operations over their airspace.

    No nation that I can think of wants to march into Muslim lands without air cover.

    Peace.

    *Note: I’ve been wondering why these nations don’t take up some kind of relationship with South Africa’s arms manufacturers to help them widen their base of customers and invest into it to increase R & D to make it become a bigger player on the world scene. South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class. But maybe you know something I don’t and that they don’t produce good quality stuff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class.
     
    True, especially during Apartheid, if you know what I mean. A lot of South African expertise was, of course, in artillery, small arms, vehicles, some SMART munitions. But things, as you know, changed with a famous "democrat" Mandela and SOBs from ANC getting the hold of government--so it will never be the same again as it used to be in 1970s or 1980s. That brings us to your point:


    *Note: I’ve been wondering why these nations don’t take up some kind of relationship with South Africa’s arms manufacturers to help them widen their base of customers and invest into it to increase R & D to make it become a bigger player on the world scene. South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class. But maybe you know something I don’t and that they don’t produce good quality stuff.
     
    In general, Arab environment is not conducive for what is required for weapons manufacturing on the expert level--a lot of labor, intellectual and menial, operation of machinery, knowledge of basic (and advanced) math, physics, chemistry etc. Arabs generally do not have a labor force which is adequate for this. There are, of course, exceptions but industrial settings and Arabs usually do not mix well. It is cultural.
    , @peterAUS

    They only need the capability to deny the enemy combined arms operations over their airspace.
     
    He...he....and the only way to deny the enemy combined arms operations is....well....own capability to execute combined arms operations.
    Catch 22.

    All they should've done so far (Syrians) is to develop a brigade level GROUND attack capability across the SAA.
    Just coordination between own artillery, armor and (mechanized) infantry. Russians would've integrated their air support in 5 minutes.

    I mean...having RUSSIAN air support, technology, advisers and specialist...fighting against militias...on own terrain...for own country....and can't win.
    Arabs.....
  154. peterAUS says:
    @chris
    So what's the excuse of average American cops with stratospheric IQs when they do the same thing?

    If I may.
    Reason: ….”Fuck them”…..”my life/life of my partner vs YOU….fuck you…”…..”if in doubt shoot until the threat is down….”….nobody will care for me if I get shot……not the top brass…not the politicians…and hell no these civilians…..”…..”you want me to risk my life for YOU for this pay and showing me no respect…just contempt….yeah….”……etc…etc….

    Reasons are structural.
    The real problem is with society itself; policing is just a symptom.

    Read More
  155. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @PiltdownMan
    In 1829, Robert Peel laid down the bedrock philosophy of policing in the Anglo-Saxon world, now called the Peelian principles. These principles would have seemed unexceptional to us even five decades ago.

    But, I daresay, they would be scoffed at by at least some of the proponents of the new philosophy of warrior-policing in America. On the other hand, some would argue that America is no longer an Anglo-Saxon society, at least not in the culture of its criminal population.


    1 The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.

    2 The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.

    3 Police must secure the willing cooperation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.

    4 The degree of cooperation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.

    5 Police seek and preserve public favor not by catering to the public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.

    6 Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.

    7 Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    8 Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.

    9 The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.

    “policing in the Anglo-Saxon world…”

    Sorry, but you made a typo there;

    “policing in the Anglo-Satan world…”

    There, corrected!

    Read More
  156. Actually, personally, I believe that even Russians got surprised, after getting into it, how bad SAA was/is

    Possibly, but Murahovsky’s piece about a year or so ago also explained this:

    I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over. And, then, when watching/analyzing SAA ground forces I got that they simply can’t do that. And IMHO, they will never get it.

    A complete lack of any strategic sense. Pretty much along the lines of Colonel Sergievsky’s piece (when him being adviser to Syria in 1973) with symptomatic title “One Must Not Fight Like This”. It also parallels Atkine’s essays. Per in bold–you may very well be right. Actually, you are most likely right.

    I mean, they have Russian air support, technology, advisers and specialists…and still can’t do the very basics after all this time.

    From what I gather, their Tiger brigade is supposedly better prepared than others. But there is also no denial of the fact of Hezbullah also doing a bulk of fighting there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    I don't mean to get in the middle of yours and this peterAus troll bashing of the useless Ay-rabs, but here is something this guy wrote, while attacking the Saker, comparing the US and Russian armed forces:

    "... For me just three:
    Rule of law.
    Corruption.
    Work ethics.

    Now, COMPARE those three elements in US (or West in general) and Russia.

    As for military, say, an average mechanized brigade:
    Alcoholism in ranks.
    Relationship between officers/senior NCOs and troopers.
    Combat support services (quality and availability of spare parts and quality of maintenance….related to work ethics and alcohol, naturally).
    Quality of training…..related to personal example of officers/senior NCOs
    ."
     
    If you read it all, what he means is that US/"Western" forces are superior.

    This is his comment #210 to be found at http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russia-vs-america-in-syria/

    In the same comment, he says of the Saker;

    I get “virtue signalling”.
    I also get a certain hypocrisy.
    LIVING in the West and preferring Russia sounds a bit….weird?
     
    Which in fact would describe your case more accurately than the Saker's....

    Now, discuss! :-)
  157. @Talha
    Hey Andrei,

    Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations
     
    This is awesome - any time they are getting those capabilities they are not generally using them for any good. This will keep them in a defensive posture for the foreseeable future - which is good news. They only need the capability to deny the enemy combined arms operations over their airspace.

    No nation that I can think of wants to march into Muslim lands without air cover.

    Peace.

    *Note: I've been wondering why these nations don't take up some kind of relationship with South Africa's arms manufacturers to help them widen their base of customers and invest into it to increase R & D to make it become a bigger player on the world scene. South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class. But maybe you know something I don't and that they don't produce good quality stuff.

    South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class.

    True, especially during Apartheid, if you know what I mean. A lot of South African expertise was, of course, in artillery, small arms, vehicles, some SMART munitions. But things, as you know, changed with a famous “democrat” Mandela and SOBs from ANC getting the hold of government–so it will never be the same again as it used to be in 1970s or 1980s. That brings us to your point:

    *Note: I’ve been wondering why these nations don’t take up some kind of relationship with South Africa’s arms manufacturers to help them widen their base of customers and invest into it to increase R & D to make it become a bigger player on the world scene. South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class. But maybe you know something I don’t and that they don’t produce good quality stuff.

    In general, Arab environment is not conducive for what is required for weapons manufacturing on the expert level–a lot of labor, intellectual and menial, operation of machinery, knowledge of basic (and advanced) math, physics, chemistry etc. Arabs generally do not have a labor force which is adequate for this. There are, of course, exceptions but industrial settings and Arabs usually do not mix well. It is cultural.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Andrei,

    things, as you know, changed
     
    Yeah - in all honesty, I doubt you'd like to be on the receiving end of apartheid though. I have personally met Muslims from SA that were tortured in prison - not fun.

    so it will never be the same again as it used to be in 1970s or 1980s
     
    Possibly, but nation-states - if they have an inkling of self-preservation tend to know not to kill the golden goose. What I am getting at is that some of the elite (Blacks) will know not to ruin a good tax revenue source and protect it from the - ahem - intentions of democracy. And having billions of dollars pouring into it from the Gulf Arabs would help keep that incentive going.

    Arabs generally do not have a labor force which is adequate for this.
     
    Depends on where you are talking about - I could see developments in the Levant or Egypt in this direction, but the Gulf or North Africa has never had a huge history in producing this level of sophistication. Which is why smart out-sourcing is the way to go. Some already out-source certain things like hiring Pakistani mercenaries to fly their aircraft.

    It is cultural.
     
    Agreed. Which is why finding a good reliable external partner in an symbiotic relationship of equals and mutual benefit (which neither the US nor Russia nor China provide) is what I would advocate. Pakistan, Turkey, Malaysia (or Central Asian countries or if they could fix this nonsense against Iran) could also provide an industrial base, but a nation like South Africa which would openly share its secrets and talent (and not simply sell stuff) would be helpful in giving it a good boost. Arabs have been outsourcing everything from arms manufacturing to architecture since Late Antiquity - I see no reason for them to stop now.

    That would require them to recognize that the world has changed such that having offensive capability is just not in their interest. Who are they realistically going to fight in an offensive war other than themselves - Israel? Yeah, right! Then they can tone down pumping so much into offensive capability like bombers and expensive air-superiority items and stick to just really, really good arms that are on a defensive posture (shoot down fighter jets, sink ships, etc.). I would say they could achieve good deterrence capabilities on half their current budgets easily. I remember the war over the Falklands/Malvinas - I think just a few Exocets almost carried the day - until Thatcher strong armed the French into halting any more deliveries (another reason to have a partner ship of equals in the relationship - it just wasn't worth it for the French to fight about it). As I said, I can't think of a single nation that wants to send its men into a pumped-up jihad meat grinder into even a dirt poor country like Yemen.

    Peace.
  158. peterAUS says:
    @Talha
    Hey Andrei,

    Arabs generally are not conditioned for modern combined arms operations
     
    This is awesome - any time they are getting those capabilities they are not generally using them for any good. This will keep them in a defensive posture for the foreseeable future - which is good news. They only need the capability to deny the enemy combined arms operations over their airspace.

    No nation that I can think of wants to march into Muslim lands without air cover.

    Peace.

    *Note: I've been wondering why these nations don't take up some kind of relationship with South Africa's arms manufacturers to help them widen their base of customers and invest into it to increase R & D to make it become a bigger player on the world scene. South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class. But maybe you know something I don't and that they don't produce good quality stuff.

    They only need the capability to deny the enemy combined arms operations over their airspace.

    He…he….and the only way to deny the enemy combined arms operations is….well….own capability to execute combined arms operations.
    Catch 22.

    All they should’ve done so far (Syrians) is to develop a brigade level GROUND attack capability across the SAA.
    Just coordination between own artillery, armor and (mechanized) infantry. Russians would’ve integrated their air support in 5 minutes.

    I mean…having RUSSIAN air support, technology, advisers and specialist…fighting against militias…on own terrain…for own country….and can’t win.
    Arabs…..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    own capability to execute combined arms operations
     
    Correct - but there is a difference in the level of sophistication required for an offensive posture and a defensive posture. Again the two models are First Chechen War and Lebanon 2006 - where the defensive side had zero air forces. Now imagine those with relatively modest air-defense capability - say the ability to shoot down one in five aircraft. No modern nation has the stomach to go on the offense looking at those numbers.

    The fight against Daesh was not a defensive one, it was an offensive operation to gain (back) territory - which shows exactly how deplorable their offensive capabilities are. The situation in a Syrian civil war (with indigenous forces) is not analogous to denying a foreign nation from establishing a beach-head or base of operations since they are not local; if you can deny a foreign army air superiority and destroy their supply logistics - they will lose an entire field army in the operation. For instance - without Pakistan (or a Central Asian country) allowing supply lines into Afghanistan - the US invasion would have been a non-starter.

    The point is to try to make sure the enemy knows they will pay severely for each inch of territory. Muslims have always been far more ready to take casualties - invading forces, not so much. Well-trained fourth-generation forces in the Muslim world have shown they can mount a relatively solid defense on a shoe-string budget (if they are willing to lose numbers) - adding the ability to deny the enemy the air should be top priority - not fancy jets that indigenous forces can't really utilize well anyway. Arabs are not Europeans - they should not try to fight like Europeans.

    Peace.

  159. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class.
     
    True, especially during Apartheid, if you know what I mean. A lot of South African expertise was, of course, in artillery, small arms, vehicles, some SMART munitions. But things, as you know, changed with a famous "democrat" Mandela and SOBs from ANC getting the hold of government--so it will never be the same again as it used to be in 1970s or 1980s. That brings us to your point:


    *Note: I’ve been wondering why these nations don’t take up some kind of relationship with South Africa’s arms manufacturers to help them widen their base of customers and invest into it to increase R & D to make it become a bigger player on the world scene. South Africa has always seemed to me as a fairly amazing competitor in that arena, punching above its weight class. But maybe you know something I don’t and that they don’t produce good quality stuff.
     
    In general, Arab environment is not conducive for what is required for weapons manufacturing on the expert level--a lot of labor, intellectual and menial, operation of machinery, knowledge of basic (and advanced) math, physics, chemistry etc. Arabs generally do not have a labor force which is adequate for this. There are, of course, exceptions but industrial settings and Arabs usually do not mix well. It is cultural.

    Hey Andrei,

    things, as you know, changed

    Yeah – in all honesty, I doubt you’d like to be on the receiving end of apartheid though. I have personally met Muslims from SA that were tortured in prison – not fun.

    so it will never be the same again as it used to be in 1970s or 1980s

    Possibly, but nation-states – if they have an inkling of self-preservation tend to know not to kill the golden goose. What I am getting at is that some of the elite (Blacks) will know not to ruin a good tax revenue source and protect it from the – ahem – intentions of democracy. And having billions of dollars pouring into it from the Gulf Arabs would help keep that incentive going.

    Arabs generally do not have a labor force which is adequate for this.

    Depends on where you are talking about – I could see developments in the Levant or Egypt in this direction, but the Gulf or North Africa has never had a huge history in producing this level of sophistication. Which is why smart out-sourcing is the way to go. Some already out-source certain things like hiring Pakistani mercenaries to fly their aircraft.

    It is cultural.

    Agreed. Which is why finding a good reliable external partner in an symbiotic relationship of equals and mutual benefit (which neither the US nor Russia nor China provide) is what I would advocate. Pakistan, Turkey, Malaysia (or Central Asian countries or if they could fix this nonsense against Iran) could also provide an industrial base, but a nation like South Africa which would openly share its secrets and talent (and not simply sell stuff) would be helpful in giving it a good boost. Arabs have been outsourcing everything from arms manufacturing to architecture since Late Antiquity – I see no reason for them to stop now.

    That would require them to recognize that the world has changed such that having offensive capability is just not in their interest. Who are they realistically going to fight in an offensive war other than themselves – Israel? Yeah, right! Then they can tone down pumping so much into offensive capability like bombers and expensive air-superiority items and stick to just really, really good arms that are on a defensive posture (shoot down fighter jets, sink ships, etc.). I would say they could achieve good deterrence capabilities on half their current budgets easily. I remember the war over the Falklands/Malvinas – I think just a few Exocets almost carried the day – until Thatcher strong armed the French into halting any more deliveries (another reason to have a partner ship of equals in the relationship – it just wasn’t worth it for the French to fight about it). As I said, I can’t think of a single nation that wants to send its men into a pumped-up jihad meat grinder into even a dirt poor country like Yemen.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    Yeah – in all honesty, I doubt you’d like to be on the receiving end of apartheid though. I have personally met Muslims from SA that were tortured in prison – not fun.
     
    Ilana Mercer has a superb treatise on SA "In Cannibal's Pot", with many points of which I have to agree. Having said that--I never was in RSA and, of course, never experienced Apartheid first hand, I can only judge outcomes.

    I would say they could achieve good deterrence capabilities on half their current budgets easily. I remember the war over the Falklands/Malvinas – I think just a few Exocets almost carried the day – until Thatcher strong armed the French into halting any more deliveries (another reason to have a partner ship of equals in the relationship – it just wasn’t worth it for the French to fight about it)
     
    IIRC Argentine had 5 Exocets in all, but again, it is very dangerous to draw direct lessons from that conflict for Arabs. Air Forces and Air Defense are must have items for any posture--offensive or defensive, especially considering how doctrines of air war evolve in the last 20 years.
  160. Talha says:
    @peterAUS

    They only need the capability to deny the enemy combined arms operations over their airspace.
     
    He...he....and the only way to deny the enemy combined arms operations is....well....own capability to execute combined arms operations.
    Catch 22.

    All they should've done so far (Syrians) is to develop a brigade level GROUND attack capability across the SAA.
    Just coordination between own artillery, armor and (mechanized) infantry. Russians would've integrated their air support in 5 minutes.

    I mean...having RUSSIAN air support, technology, advisers and specialist...fighting against militias...on own terrain...for own country....and can't win.
    Arabs.....

    own capability to execute combined arms operations

    Correct – but there is a difference in the level of sophistication required for an offensive posture and a defensive posture. Again the two models are First Chechen War and Lebanon 2006 – where the defensive side had zero air forces. Now imagine those with relatively modest air-defense capability – say the ability to shoot down one in five aircraft. No modern nation has the stomach to go on the offense looking at those numbers.

    The fight against Daesh was not a defensive one, it was an offensive operation to gain (back) territory – which shows exactly how deplorable their offensive capabilities are. The situation in a Syrian civil war (with indigenous forces) is not analogous to denying a foreign nation from establishing a beach-head or base of operations since they are not local; if you can deny a foreign army air superiority and destroy their supply logistics – they will lose an entire field army in the operation. For instance – without Pakistan (or a Central Asian country) allowing supply lines into Afghanistan – the US invasion would have been a non-starter.

    The point is to try to make sure the enemy knows they will pay severely for each inch of territory. Muslims have always been far more ready to take casualties – invading forces, not so much. Well-trained fourth-generation forces in the Muslim world have shown they can mount a relatively solid defense on a shoe-string budget (if they are willing to lose numbers) – adding the ability to deny the enemy the air should be top priority – not fancy jets that indigenous forces can’t really utilize well anyway. Arabs are not Europeans – they should not try to fight like Europeans.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Good points, although off topic here......

    But, still, for a really effective defense you need ACTIVE defense.

    I'll leave policy, strategy and operations out of reply.

    Say, just a brigade DEFENSE of an area.

    To do that defectively you MUST have a very good combined arms team, no matter what.
    At least it would be, say, in open terrain, a mechanized infantry company (say, 3 platoons in APCs/IFVs, one tank platoon), supported by mobile AA capability (AAA cannon and missiles), and, the most important, IMHO, effective artillery support of that counterattack/plugging the hole/feint/whatever.

    The crux of ground combined arms operations is having an effective artillery support (canon, howitzers, MLRS, hopefully motorized, preferably mechanized).

    That ...organization, coordination...let alone training and building expertise appears to be way above Arabs.

    You mentioned Falklands. That's a good point because it was done by First World attackers.
    You'd maybe want to know that Brits were able, in 1982, to creep on their bellies, under artillery cover of 105 cannon batteries, in night, with heavy wind blasts....up to 50 ...FIFTY...meters from Argentine positions.

    Think about that for a second.
  161. @peterAUS

    Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA’s General Staff is still very low.
     
    Well, I really doubt it.

    After all this time SAA simply can't do any combined arms operation above the level of small brigade, and even that not well.
    I simply haven't seen the basics yet....artillery support of mechanized attack in daytime, just at battalion level (close support of attack/assault that is).
    Let alone the same at night.

    I believe the cause is really cultural (probably racial too....).

    I mean, they have Russian air support, technology, advisers and specialists...and still can't do the very basics after all this time.

    Actually, personally, I believe that even Russians got surprised, after getting into it, how bad SAA was/is.
    I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over.
    And, then, when watching/analyzing SAA ground forces I got that they simply can't do that. And IMHO, they will never get it.

    I know Arab armies have the reputation of not performing well in such operations, and it’s possible the SAA is still lacking in this department- however observing the current conflict wouldn’t be really useful to reach this conclusion.

    It’s essentially a war against militias and urban sieges, all the time. At all time militants blend with civilians or take them hostages. No chance to apply state of the art tactics against conventional enemy formations. For the same reasons, US forces failed in Iraq when the war entered its insurrectional phase. There is no way you win these types of conflicts in six months

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Off topic reply so I apologize.

    On policy/strategic level you could have a point.

    On tactical level I disagree.

    For a very good example how it CAN be effectively done I'd suggest taking a look at Serb/Yugoslav response in Kosovo before "Merciful Angel" kicked in.

    And, all that without Russian help.

    Say, you magically transfer Serb/Yugoslav response force of that time into today Syria, and with Russian help......I'd say 3 months tops to clear any visible opposition.

    Agree that after that we'd have Afghanistan/Iraq scenario but that's not the off-topic here.
  162. @Talha
    Hey Andrei,

    things, as you know, changed
     
    Yeah - in all honesty, I doubt you'd like to be on the receiving end of apartheid though. I have personally met Muslims from SA that were tortured in prison - not fun.

    so it will never be the same again as it used to be in 1970s or 1980s
     
    Possibly, but nation-states - if they have an inkling of self-preservation tend to know not to kill the golden goose. What I am getting at is that some of the elite (Blacks) will know not to ruin a good tax revenue source and protect it from the - ahem - intentions of democracy. And having billions of dollars pouring into it from the Gulf Arabs would help keep that incentive going.

    Arabs generally do not have a labor force which is adequate for this.
     
    Depends on where you are talking about - I could see developments in the Levant or Egypt in this direction, but the Gulf or North Africa has never had a huge history in producing this level of sophistication. Which is why smart out-sourcing is the way to go. Some already out-source certain things like hiring Pakistani mercenaries to fly their aircraft.

    It is cultural.
     
    Agreed. Which is why finding a good reliable external partner in an symbiotic relationship of equals and mutual benefit (which neither the US nor Russia nor China provide) is what I would advocate. Pakistan, Turkey, Malaysia (or Central Asian countries or if they could fix this nonsense against Iran) could also provide an industrial base, but a nation like South Africa which would openly share its secrets and talent (and not simply sell stuff) would be helpful in giving it a good boost. Arabs have been outsourcing everything from arms manufacturing to architecture since Late Antiquity - I see no reason for them to stop now.

    That would require them to recognize that the world has changed such that having offensive capability is just not in their interest. Who are they realistically going to fight in an offensive war other than themselves - Israel? Yeah, right! Then they can tone down pumping so much into offensive capability like bombers and expensive air-superiority items and stick to just really, really good arms that are on a defensive posture (shoot down fighter jets, sink ships, etc.). I would say they could achieve good deterrence capabilities on half their current budgets easily. I remember the war over the Falklands/Malvinas - I think just a few Exocets almost carried the day - until Thatcher strong armed the French into halting any more deliveries (another reason to have a partner ship of equals in the relationship - it just wasn't worth it for the French to fight about it). As I said, I can't think of a single nation that wants to send its men into a pumped-up jihad meat grinder into even a dirt poor country like Yemen.

    Peace.

    Yeah – in all honesty, I doubt you’d like to be on the receiving end of apartheid though. I have personally met Muslims from SA that were tortured in prison – not fun.

    Ilana Mercer has a superb treatise on SA “In Cannibal’s Pot”, with many points of which I have to agree. Having said that–I never was in RSA and, of course, never experienced Apartheid first hand, I can only judge outcomes.

    I would say they could achieve good deterrence capabilities on half their current budgets easily. I remember the war over the Falklands/Malvinas – I think just a few Exocets almost carried the day – until Thatcher strong armed the French into halting any more deliveries (another reason to have a partner ship of equals in the relationship – it just wasn’t worth it for the French to fight about it)

    IIRC Argentine had 5 Exocets in all, but again, it is very dangerous to draw direct lessons from that conflict for Arabs. Air Forces and Air Defense are must have items for any posture–offensive or defensive, especially considering how doctrines of air war evolve in the last 20 years.

    Read More
  163. peterAUS says:
    @Talha

    own capability to execute combined arms operations
     
    Correct - but there is a difference in the level of sophistication required for an offensive posture and a defensive posture. Again the two models are First Chechen War and Lebanon 2006 - where the defensive side had zero air forces. Now imagine those with relatively modest air-defense capability - say the ability to shoot down one in five aircraft. No modern nation has the stomach to go on the offense looking at those numbers.

    The fight against Daesh was not a defensive one, it was an offensive operation to gain (back) territory - which shows exactly how deplorable their offensive capabilities are. The situation in a Syrian civil war (with indigenous forces) is not analogous to denying a foreign nation from establishing a beach-head or base of operations since they are not local; if you can deny a foreign army air superiority and destroy their supply logistics - they will lose an entire field army in the operation. For instance - without Pakistan (or a Central Asian country) allowing supply lines into Afghanistan - the US invasion would have been a non-starter.

    The point is to try to make sure the enemy knows they will pay severely for each inch of territory. Muslims have always been far more ready to take casualties - invading forces, not so much. Well-trained fourth-generation forces in the Muslim world have shown they can mount a relatively solid defense on a shoe-string budget (if they are willing to lose numbers) - adding the ability to deny the enemy the air should be top priority - not fancy jets that indigenous forces can't really utilize well anyway. Arabs are not Europeans - they should not try to fight like Europeans.

    Peace.

    Good points, although off topic here……

    But, still, for a really effective defense you need ACTIVE defense.

    I’ll leave policy, strategy and operations out of reply.

    Say, just a brigade DEFENSE of an area.

    To do that defectively you MUST have a very good combined arms team, no matter what.
    At least it would be, say, in open terrain, a mechanized infantry company (say, 3 platoons in APCs/IFVs, one tank platoon), supported by mobile AA capability (AAA cannon and missiles), and, the most important, IMHO, effective artillery support of that counterattack/plugging the hole/feint/whatever.

    The crux of ground combined arms operations is having an effective artillery support (canon, howitzers, MLRS, hopefully motorized, preferably mechanized).

    That …organization, coordination…let alone training and building expertise appears to be way above Arabs.

    You mentioned Falklands. That’s a good point because it was done by First World attackers.
    You’d maybe want to know that Brits were able, in 1982, to creep on their bellies, under artillery cover of 105 cannon batteries, in night, with heavy wind blasts….up to 50 …FIFTY…meters from Argentine positions.

    Think about that for a second.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey PeterAUS,

    The crux of ground combined arms operations is having an effective artillery support (canon, howitzers, MLRS, hopefully motorized, preferably mechanized).
     
    Agreed - though none of that is possible if the enemy's jets and helicopters control the air - though Hezbollah did prove they could still field rockets (even if they weren't the best quality) while having no control over the skies.

    appears to be way above Arabs.
     
    Again - depends on which Arabs you are talking about. There were times when Egyptians and even Jordanians pulled off some impressive strikes in their wars against Israel. But in general, they will need a lot of training from, say, Turks or Pakistanis, if not Europeans etc.

    up to 50 …FIFTY…meters from Argentine positions.

     

    Their forces in general or SAS? I did read about some very daring SAS raids to take out airfields and other high-value assets. But even elite forces have limitations:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592320/The-secret-disastrous-SAS-attempt-invade-Argentina-revealed-In-Falklands-War-crack-troops-suicidal-mission-storm-Galtieris-Exocet-missile-base-This-story-told-time.html

    Peace.
  164. @chris
    So what's the excuse of average American cops with stratospheric IQs when they do the same thing?

    “The same thing”…

    Please cite an example of a White American cop who leans across his partner to shoot through the door of his patrol car, killing an unarmed female who is reporting a crime in an upscale neighborhood.

    If you are honestly seeking answers about unsatisfactory conclusions to use-of-force incidents, please see my prior comments about the pitiful state of contemporary police training. Simply put, PD’s don’t make any particular effort to hire strong, capable men who are comfortable in high-stress physical situations, and the people who ARE hired are given neither the quality nor frequency of training that would enable them to perform at a high level of competence.

    To police administrators, this is a feature, not a bug.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    The Minneapolis police department has obtained a "search warrant" for the victim's house...WHY??
    , @SteveRogers42
    https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6rdac2/reminder_mohamed_noor_a_somali_muslim_affirmative/
  165. peterAUS says:
    @Bukephalos
    I know Arab armies have the reputation of not performing well in such operations, and it's possible the SAA is still lacking in this department- however observing the current conflict wouldn't be really useful to reach this conclusion.

    It's essentially a war against militias and urban sieges, all the time. At all time militants blend with civilians or take them hostages. No chance to apply state of the art tactics against conventional enemy formations. For the same reasons, US forces failed in Iraq when the war entered its insurrectional phase. There is no way you win these types of conflicts in six months

    Off topic reply so I apologize.

    On policy/strategic level you could have a point.

    On tactical level I disagree.

    For a very good example how it CAN be effectively done I’d suggest taking a look at Serb/Yugoslav response in Kosovo before “Merciful Angel” kicked in.

    And, all that without Russian help.

    Say, you magically transfer Serb/Yugoslav response force of that time into today Syria, and with Russian help……I’d say 3 months tops to clear any visible opposition.

    Agree that after that we’d have Afghanistan/Iraq scenario but that’s not the off-topic here.

    Read More
  166. Rurik says: • Website
    @Authenticjazzman
    To Rurik :

    Okay so just wtf is "Barouche" culture?

    Does it perhaps have anything to do with the counter-reformation era of architecture, painting, music etc.

    Look anyone who misspells such a well known word has no business labeling others regarding their factual postings as : "Troll"

    You are full of it, and you can't bullshit folks in the know.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" Society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    anyone who misspells such a well known word

    .
    my spelling is atrocious

    if it weren’t for spell check, you’d barely be able to read it

    but then I don’t go around reminding everyone of what an amazing genius I am, and berating them for not paying me enough homage for my greatness

    I’ve noticed you occasionally make a salient point, but then it’s all wasted by your idiotic preening and tiresome self-praise.

    And there’s nothing to be proud of anyways even if you are a member of Mensa, since they rarely accomplish anything of consequence other than patting each other on the back.

    Give me a person of average intellect all day long with integrity and character and a willingness to speak the truth, over self-congratulating group of IQ test-takers and smug peacocks telling everyone how smart they are. If they’re so smart, why don’t they do something or say something of consequence that proves it, rather than preening all day long and annoying people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    Recently somebody (maybe Scott Adams) said that he'd joined Mensa, but very quickly stopped going to meetings because the people were all so miserable. He said that despite their high IQ's, they were generally unsuccessful and not very interesting or fun to be around.
    , @MEexpert
    I call him "unauthentic Windbag."
  167. anon says: • Disclaimer

    the State Department report on terrorism for 2016, released this month, said that some Palestinian violence is driven by “a lack of hope” in ever gaining sovereignty:

    Continued drivers of violence included a lack of hope in achieving Palestinian statehood, Israeli settlement construction in the West Bank, settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank, the perception that the Israeli government was changing the status quo on the Haram Al Sharif/Temple Mount, and IDF tactics that the Palestinians considered overly aggressive.

    Those assertions would seem eminently logical after 70 years of failure to deliver on promises of a Palestinian state, but they have generated a storm of pushback from Israel’s friends in the United States.

    Last week Illinois congressman Peter Roskam wrote to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, saying the “root cause” of Palestinian violence is the Palestinian Authority, not “a stalled peace process.”

    Then on Monday, the Zionist Organization of America demanded that Tillerson step down.

    In light of the U.S. State Department’s new, bigoted, biased, anti-Semitic, Israel-hating error-ridden terrorism report, the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) calls on Secretary of State Tillerson to resign. This Tillerson State Department Report blames Israel for Palestinian Arab terrorist attacks on innocent Jews and Americans…

    (The ZOA had criticized the Tillerson appointment when it was made, saying it could not trust Tillerson because of his connections to Arabs as a former oil man.) http://mondoweiss.net/2017/07/palestinian-statelessness-violence/

    Read More
  168. @Philip Giraldi
    No

    Given your distinguished career to date, I am gratified by the 2-letter reply to my question.

    Almost every Sunday at 8 pm, I watch “Columbo” on MeTV. So forgive me for asking one more thing.

    Is the CIA and FBI hierarchy effectively autonomous and capable of action independent to the interests and will of Israel?

    A concrete example is the > 30 year CIA effort to destabilize Iran’s Islamic government. Could the CIA take action to destabilize our 3 branch ZUSA government?

    Either yes or no will do & God bless you!

    Read More
  169. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    anyone who misspells such a well known word
     
    .
    my spelling is atrocious

    if it weren't for spell check, you'd barely be able to read it

    but then I don't go around reminding everyone of what an amazing genius I am, and berating them for not paying me enough homage for my greatness

    I've noticed you occasionally make a salient point, but then it's all wasted by your idiotic preening and tiresome self-praise.

    And there's nothing to be proud of anyways even if you are a member of Mensa, since they rarely accomplish anything of consequence other than patting each other on the back.

    Give me a person of average intellect all day long with integrity and character and a willingness to speak the truth, over self-congratulating group of IQ test-takers and smug peacocks telling everyone how smart they are. If they're so smart, why don't they do something or say something of consequence that proves it, rather than preening all day long and annoying people.

    Recently somebody (maybe Scott Adams) said that he’d joined Mensa, but very quickly stopped going to meetings because the people were all so miserable. He said that despite their high IQ’s, they were generally unsuccessful and not very interesting or fun to be around.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Makes sense - it sounds like a Star Trek convention - probably a lot of overlap in membership.

    Peace.
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Malcolm Gladwell goes into this in considerable detail in his book Outliers, including Lewis Terman's "Termites", a selected group of very high IQ students who were expected to rise to greatness due to their intellectual gifts. They didn't.
    , @Rurik
    Hi Robin,

    He said that despite their high IQ’s, they were generally unsuccessful and not very interesting or fun to be around.
     
    one of the first 'alt-right' websites I encountered long ago, (before 'it' was even called 'alt-right'), was a guy called John 'the Birdman' Bryant, who was apparently a Mensa member but who was exasperated at how close-minded and sheep-like they all were. Bryant ran a good website, (if you're into that kind of thing), and tried to make a difference in his life, but because he was politically incorrect, the Mensans hated him for it.

    here's what remains of the late Birdman's legacy, his website:

    http://www.thebirdman.org/

    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Index-Fight-StandTall.jpg

    Stand tall against a sea of lies; show your light tho it should only prick the darkness.
    There is no better time than now, because now we are alive, and tomorrow may be too late. --JBR Yant

    .
    .

    'brains without character are a waste of cranium space....'

    - Rurik ~ the unexceptional
  170. Art says:
    @Talha
    Hey Art,

    They are pure defensive weapons. Defense is moral.
     
    That is exactly the direction I would like the militaries of the various Muslim countries to go and with joint cooperation.

    Yes Russia could sell them the anti-aircraft weaponry they need, but my preference would be for them to have independent manufacturing capability. If you are dependent on others, then unfortunately you subject to their political concerns . Which means if Neo-cons are able to put enough pressure on Russia or give it the right national incentive to change its military sales strategy, then these nations are left high and dry.


    The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires.
     
    Probably true, but even when it concerns the Israelis, I am against indiscriminate warfare on principle - it is immoral. Their crimes do not justify crimes by our hands - they are not our teachers.

    Peace.

    The truth is that Israel is vulnerable to thousands of dumb rockets that start fires.

    Probably true, but even when it concerns the Israelis, I am against indiscriminate warfare on principle – it is immoral.

    I agree 100% – I personally do NOT want anyone to die in the ME. I want the Matrix Jews to compensate the Palestinian people for their pain and suffering.

    Building effective ground to air missiles requires hi-tech infrastructure. Perhaps only Iran has that capability.

    If Egypt were to get s-400’s the whole balance of power in the ME would change for the better.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
  171. Talha says:
    @RobinG
    Recently somebody (maybe Scott Adams) said that he'd joined Mensa, but very quickly stopped going to meetings because the people were all so miserable. He said that despite their high IQ's, they were generally unsuccessful and not very interesting or fun to be around.

    Makes sense – it sounds like a Star Trek convention – probably a lot of overlap in membership.

    Peace.

    Read More
  172. Talha says:
    @peterAUS
    Good points, although off topic here......

    But, still, for a really effective defense you need ACTIVE defense.

    I'll leave policy, strategy and operations out of reply.

    Say, just a brigade DEFENSE of an area.

    To do that defectively you MUST have a very good combined arms team, no matter what.
    At least it would be, say, in open terrain, a mechanized infantry company (say, 3 platoons in APCs/IFVs, one tank platoon), supported by mobile AA capability (AAA cannon and missiles), and, the most important, IMHO, effective artillery support of that counterattack/plugging the hole/feint/whatever.

    The crux of ground combined arms operations is having an effective artillery support (canon, howitzers, MLRS, hopefully motorized, preferably mechanized).

    That ...organization, coordination...let alone training and building expertise appears to be way above Arabs.

    You mentioned Falklands. That's a good point because it was done by First World attackers.
    You'd maybe want to know that Brits were able, in 1982, to creep on their bellies, under artillery cover of 105 cannon batteries, in night, with heavy wind blasts....up to 50 ...FIFTY...meters from Argentine positions.

    Think about that for a second.

    Hey PeterAUS,

    The crux of ground combined arms operations is having an effective artillery support (canon, howitzers, MLRS, hopefully motorized, preferably mechanized).

    Agreed – though none of that is possible if the enemy’s jets and helicopters control the air – though Hezbollah did prove they could still field rockets (even if they weren’t the best quality) while having no control over the skies.

    appears to be way above Arabs.

    Again – depends on which Arabs you are talking about. There were times when Egyptians and even Jordanians pulled off some impressive strikes in their wars against Israel. But in general, they will need a lot of training from, say, Turks or Pakistanis, if not Europeans etc.

    up to 50 …FIFTY…meters from Argentine positions.

    Their forces in general or SAS? I did read about some very daring SAS raids to take out airfields and other high-value assets. But even elite forces have limitations:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592320/The-secret-disastrous-SAS-attempt-invade-Argentina-revealed-In-Falklands-War-crack-troops-suicidal-mission-storm-Galtieris-Exocet-missile-base-This-story-told-time.html

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Way of-topic.
    Or maybe not taking into account "militarization" of police.
    Because there is a HUGE gap between paramilitary police and military.
    Artillery one of them.

    Speaking of which, as per your question:


    Their forces in general or SAS? I did read about some very daring SAS raids to take out airfields and other high-value assets. But even elite forces have limitations:
     
    "General" forces...: Paras, Marines and "line infantry" (Scots Guards). The Guards directly from ceremonial duties......

    I emphasize...it was not about infantry (although demanded a lot from them, obviously), it was about combined arms battle.
    And, now really boring stuff, not just about that but quality of weapons, ammunition, maintenance (both in barracks and field), specialized skill of all those in the chain...from loaders to Brigade Staff.
    THAT is what Arabs just don't have.
    Actually, that's what most of armies of this world don't have.

    Night, soggy terrain, unpredictable gusts of wind....and infantry trusted artillery so they would creep forward up to fifty meters from Argentine positions, while artillery suppressed the defense. Or simply stayed at that line while artillery would hammer defense into submission before that final "jump".
    The longest 50 meters in life.
    And, it was in 1982.

    Now, I guarantee you........you could count on one hand...maybe...maybe two hands.......armies capable of that today.

    Most of them would be lucky to get the infantry up to 400 meters....

    Haha...and I guarantee you, around 90 % of people reading this have no idea why is this so important.

    But...ask any vet what he thinks about it.

    As for that very SAS operation (and all that stuff should be taken with a GRAIN of salt), there is a very fine writing, as:
    https://www.amazon.de/Exocet-Falklands-Untold-Special-Operations-ebook/dp/B00QVZPRBK

  173. @RobinG
    Recently somebody (maybe Scott Adams) said that he'd joined Mensa, but very quickly stopped going to meetings because the people were all so miserable. He said that despite their high IQ's, they were generally unsuccessful and not very interesting or fun to be around.

    Malcolm Gladwell goes into this in considerable detail in his book Outliers, including Lewis Terman’s “Termites”, a selected group of very high IQ students who were expected to rise to greatness due to their intellectual gifts. They didn’t.

    Read More
  174. peterAUS says:
    @Talha
    Hey PeterAUS,

    The crux of ground combined arms operations is having an effective artillery support (canon, howitzers, MLRS, hopefully motorized, preferably mechanized).
     
    Agreed - though none of that is possible if the enemy's jets and helicopters control the air - though Hezbollah did prove they could still field rockets (even if they weren't the best quality) while having no control over the skies.

    appears to be way above Arabs.
     
    Again - depends on which Arabs you are talking about. There were times when Egyptians and even Jordanians pulled off some impressive strikes in their wars against Israel. But in general, they will need a lot of training from, say, Turks or Pakistanis, if not Europeans etc.

    up to 50 …FIFTY…meters from Argentine positions.

     

    Their forces in general or SAS? I did read about some very daring SAS raids to take out airfields and other high-value assets. But even elite forces have limitations:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592320/The-secret-disastrous-SAS-attempt-invade-Argentina-revealed-In-Falklands-War-crack-troops-suicidal-mission-storm-Galtieris-Exocet-missile-base-This-story-told-time.html

    Peace.

    Way of-topic.
    Or maybe not taking into account “militarization” of police.
    Because there is a HUGE gap between paramilitary police and military.
    Artillery one of them.

    Speaking of which, as per your question:

    Their forces in general or SAS? I did read about some very daring SAS raids to take out airfields and other high-value assets. But even elite forces have limitations:

    “General” forces…: Paras, Marines and “line infantry” (Scots Guards). The Guards directly from ceremonial duties……

    I emphasize…it was not about infantry (although demanded a lot from them, obviously), it was about combined arms battle.
    And, now really boring stuff, not just about that but quality of weapons, ammunition, maintenance (both in barracks and field), specialized skill of all those in the chain…from loaders to Brigade Staff.
    THAT is what Arabs just don’t have.
    Actually, that’s what most of armies of this world don’t have.

    Night, soggy terrain, unpredictable gusts of wind….and infantry trusted artillery so they would creep forward up to fifty meters from Argentine positions, while artillery suppressed the defense. Or simply stayed at that line while artillery would hammer defense into submission before that final “jump”.
    The longest 50 meters in life.
    And, it was in 1982.

    Now, I guarantee you……..you could count on one hand…maybe…maybe two hands…….armies capable of that today.

    Most of them would be lucky to get the infantry up to 400 meters….

    Haha…and I guarantee you, around 90 % of people reading this have no idea why is this so important.

    But…ask any vet what he thinks about it.

    As for that very SAS operation (and all that stuff should be taken with a GRAIN of salt), there is a very fine writing, as:

    https://www.amazon.de/Exocet-Falklands-Untold-Special-Operations-ebook/dp/B00QVZPRBK

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey PeterAUS,

    And, now really boring stuff, not just about that but quality of weapons, ammunition, maintenance (both in barracks and field), specialized skill of all those in the chain…from loaders to Brigade Staff. THAT is what Arabs just don’t have.
     
    I'll agree with you here - the British military is the result of centuries of military tradition well versed in modern military principles and tactics that were finely honed in the great slaughter-fests known as WW1 (often really bad tactics) and WW2. Millions of men were expended in massive blunders to make sure the European militaries figured out the right way to do things. Europeans had great sparring partners - let me tell you.

    Now, I guarantee you……..you could count on one hand…maybe…maybe two hands…….armies capable of that today.
     
    Agree there - I think maybe only the Turks and Pakistanis and possibly the Iranians could pull off something like 100-200, but I don't have full confidence in either of them to do so 100% of the time.

    When dealing with Arabs, one must try to figure out which ones they are talking about. And also remember that for centuries their defense was the responsibility of the Ottomans who fielded a very capable officer corps from a long military tradition and this would often include Bosnians and Albanians who provided the core of the defense force (with local Arab militias providing the auxiliary support). The Arabs definitely gained independence, and have had to learn to defend their own territories after having someone else do it for them all this time - it's been a hard lesson.

    Peace.
    , @L.K
    Hmm... interesting, but when I mentioned vets before, but what they said wasn't to your liking, you just dismissed them with a shrug... I guess that is what shills do, eh?

    Re that little talk we were having, here is what another US vet had to say about the current Russian forces;

    On one side is Macgregor, an outspoken and controversial advocate for reform of the Army — whose weapons he describes as “obsolescent,” its senior leaders as “self-interested,” and its spending as “wasteful.” Viewed by many of his colleagues as one of the most innovative Army officers of his generation, Macgregor, a West Point graduate with a Ph.D. in international relations (“he can be pretty gruff,” a fellow West Point graduate says, “but he’s brilliant”), led the 2nd Cav’s “Cougar Squadron” in the best-known battle of Operation Desert Storm in February 1991. In 23 minutes, Macgregor’s force destroyed an entire Iraqi Armored Brigade (including nearly 70 Iraqi armored vehicles), while suffering a single American casualty....

    In the wake of the battle, however, Macgregor calculated that if his unit had fought a highly trained and better armed enemy, like the Russians, the outcome would have been different.
     
    This is Douglas Macgregor BTW, vet and U.S. Army Colonel, not Conor, the MMA fighter. I know, I know, just a Colonel, too low a rank for you... anyways...

    But Macgregor is still fighting that battle. In early September he circulated a PowerPoint presentation showing that in a head-to-head confrontation pitting the equivalent of a U.S. armored division against a likely Russian adversary, the U.S. division would be defeated. “Defeated isn’t the right word,” Macgregor told me last week. “The right word is annihilated.”
     
  175. MEexpert says:
    @Rurik

    anyone who misspells such a well known word
     
    .
    my spelling is atrocious

    if it weren't for spell check, you'd barely be able to read it

    but then I don't go around reminding everyone of what an amazing genius I am, and berating them for not paying me enough homage for my greatness

    I've noticed you occasionally make a salient point, but then it's all wasted by your idiotic preening and tiresome self-praise.

    And there's nothing to be proud of anyways even if you are a member of Mensa, since they rarely accomplish anything of consequence other than patting each other on the back.

    Give me a person of average intellect all day long with integrity and character and a willingness to speak the truth, over self-congratulating group of IQ test-takers and smug peacocks telling everyone how smart they are. If they're so smart, why don't they do something or say something of consequence that proves it, rather than preening all day long and annoying people.

    I call him “unauthentic Windbag.”

    Read More
  176. ” I call him unathentic windbag”

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    How witty and original, you missed your calling as a stand up comic.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Read More
  177. Talha says:
    @peterAUS
    Way of-topic.
    Or maybe not taking into account "militarization" of police.
    Because there is a HUGE gap between paramilitary police and military.
    Artillery one of them.

    Speaking of which, as per your question:


    Their forces in general or SAS? I did read about some very daring SAS raids to take out airfields and other high-value assets. But even elite forces have limitations:
     
    "General" forces...: Paras, Marines and "line infantry" (Scots Guards). The Guards directly from ceremonial duties......

    I emphasize...it was not about infantry (although demanded a lot from them, obviously), it was about combined arms battle.
    And, now really boring stuff, not just about that but quality of weapons, ammunition, maintenance (both in barracks and field), specialized skill of all those in the chain...from loaders to Brigade Staff.
    THAT is what Arabs just don't have.
    Actually, that's what most of armies of this world don't have.

    Night, soggy terrain, unpredictable gusts of wind....and infantry trusted artillery so they would creep forward up to fifty meters from Argentine positions, while artillery suppressed the defense. Or simply stayed at that line while artillery would hammer defense into submission before that final "jump".
    The longest 50 meters in life.
    And, it was in 1982.

    Now, I guarantee you........you could count on one hand...maybe...maybe two hands.......armies capable of that today.

    Most of them would be lucky to get the infantry up to 400 meters....

    Haha...and I guarantee you, around 90 % of people reading this have no idea why is this so important.

    But...ask any vet what he thinks about it.

    As for that very SAS operation (and all that stuff should be taken with a GRAIN of salt), there is a very fine writing, as:
    https://www.amazon.de/Exocet-Falklands-Untold-Special-Operations-ebook/dp/B00QVZPRBK

    Hey PeterAUS,

    And, now really boring stuff, not just about that but quality of weapons, ammunition, maintenance (both in barracks and field), specialized skill of all those in the chain…from loaders to Brigade Staff. THAT is what Arabs just don’t have.

    I’ll agree with you here – the British military is the result of centuries of military tradition well versed in modern military principles and tactics that were finely honed in the great slaughter-fests known as WW1 (often really bad tactics) and WW2. Millions of men were expended in massive blunders to make sure the European militaries figured out the right way to do things. Europeans had great sparring partners – let me tell you.

    Now, I guarantee you……..you could count on one hand…maybe…maybe two hands…….armies capable of that today.

    Agree there – I think maybe only the Turks and Pakistanis and possibly the Iranians could pull off something like 100-200, but I don’t have full confidence in either of them to do so 100% of the time.

    When dealing with Arabs, one must try to figure out which ones they are talking about. And also remember that for centuries their defense was the responsibility of the Ottomans who fielded a very capable officer corps from a long military tradition and this would often include Bosnians and Albanians who provided the core of the defense force (with local Arab militias providing the auxiliary support). The Arabs definitely gained independence, and have had to learn to defend their own territories after having someone else do it for them all this time – it’s been a hard lesson.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Hello uncle Talha,

    Colonel Lang's viewpoint re the Israli-Arab wars.
    First though, Lang's bio:

    Colonel W. Patrick Lang is a retired senior officer of U.S. Military Intelligence and U.S. Army Special Forces (The Green Berets). He served in the Department of Defense both as a serving officer and then as a member of the Defense Senior Executive Service for many years. He is a highly decorated veteran of several of America's overseas conflicts including the war in Vietnam. He was trained and educated as a specialist in the Middle East by the U.S. Army and served in that region for many years.
     
    Re the Israeli-Arab wars:

    It must be said that they[the Israelis] have typically been lucky in their enemies and that if they had faced more serious enemies, they would have had a much different experience than the ones they had. In the Golan Heights the Syrians gave them a very difficult time in 1973[...]The Jordanians gave them a run for their money in 1948-49. Hizbullah delivered a hint of the inherent limits in such a socio-military system in 2006 and now we are seeing whatever it is that we will see at Gaza.
     
    Also of interest is that in the war of 48, the Israeli forces were much larger and better armed. Author and former Middle East correspondent, Alan Hart:

    As to the actual fighting in 1948 here is the key to complete understanding. Early on there was a month long truce. When the fighting resumed it was 20,000 Arab soldiers, poorly trained and equipped, lacking motivation and badly led, against 80,000 Israeli forces, well trained and equipped, highly motivated and well led.
     
    Also, as you have noted , some Arab militaries are better than others;
    Col Lang on the Jordanian army:

    The Jordanian army has a long record of victory. The only instance of their defeat was at the hands of the IDF in 1967. In that case the IDF air force destroyed their armored forces, specifically the 40th Armored Brigade under Zeid bin Shakir. The Jordanians had no adequate anti-air defenses. In 1948 the Palmach(elite israeli forces) lost 800 odd dead trying to take the Latrun police fort from the Jordanians. The Jordanians had one infantry company in the fort.
     
    For a good article on how Hezbollah defeated Israel in 06, former high ranking MI6 intel officer, Alastair Crooke's 3 set piece is probably the best;
    HOW HEZBOLLAH DEFEATED ISRAEL
    PART 2: Winning the ground war - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ13Ak01.html
  178. Rurik says: • Website
    @RobinG
    Recently somebody (maybe Scott Adams) said that he'd joined Mensa, but very quickly stopped going to meetings because the people were all so miserable. He said that despite their high IQ's, they were generally unsuccessful and not very interesting or fun to be around.

    Hi Robin,

    He said that despite their high IQ’s, they were generally unsuccessful and not very interesting or fun to be around.

    one of the first ‘alt-right’ websites I encountered long ago, (before ‘it’ was even called ‘alt-right’), was a guy called John ‘the Birdman’ Bryant, who was apparently a Mensa member but who was exasperated at how close-minded and sheep-like they all were. Bryant ran a good website, (if you’re into that kind of thing), and tried to make a difference in his life, but because he was politically incorrect, the Mensans hated him for it.

    here’s what remains of the late Birdman’s legacy, his website:

    http://www.thebirdman.org/

    Stand tall against a sea of lies; show your light tho it should only prick the darkness.
    There is no better time than now, because now we are alive, and tomorrow may be too late. –JBR Yant

    .
    .

    ‘brains without character are a waste of cranium space….’

    - Rurik ~ the unexceptional

    Read More
  179. peterAUS says:

    About America’s militarized police…..

    Not bad article.
    Plenty of comments; some of them quite good.

    People appear to be interested in the topic.

    So…..why is that nobody mentioned Waco, Texas?
    I’ll repeat…………WACO……TEXAS !!

    That is, in plain sight, a method how the leader of free world deals with perceived challenge to own power…credibility….call it whatever you want.

    That is an elephant in the living room nobody wants to talk about.

    And, it was Democrats in power.
    And nobody was held responsible.
    Not for overkill, misuse of state power….not even for errors, incompetence….simple blunder.
    Nothing.

    Nothing for gassing and burning alive American women and children.

    Too scary to look at?
    Too humiliating that the home of the free and brave allowed that not only to pass….but to have willing participants totally of the hook?
    From shooters on the ground to the Great President?

    So………….?

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Pete -- please don't conflate Interior Ministry troops with local police and sheriff's departments.
    , @Authenticjazzman
    They were Democrats, and Democrats are always forgiven for the same actions for which the Republicans would be excoriated.

    If a Republican president would have been dicking a young intern in the WH he would have been tarred and feathered, and run out on a rail.

    I am not claiming that Republicans do not have their share of scoundrels and scumbags, as they do, however the Democrats are the world champions at underhandedness, dishonesty, corruption and dissolute behavior.

    And the sad fact is as long as they control the media, edumacation, justitia and Hollywood they will win every battle, as the Republicans are still terrified of the expressions : Racist, and Racism
    The only solution to this checkmate and dilema is for the Republicans to start labeling the Democrats as : Racists.
    Meaning to simply throw back the same garbage at them.
    They, the Republicans, are however too chicken to engage in this brilliant strategy and therefore will remain powerless.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.
  180. L.K says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Actually, personally, I believe that even Russians got surprised, after getting into it, how bad SAA was/is
     
    Possibly, but Murahovsky's piece about a year or so ago also explained this:

    I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over. And, then, when watching/analyzing SAA ground forces I got that they simply can’t do that. And IMHO, they will never get it.
     
    A complete lack of any strategic sense. Pretty much along the lines of Colonel Sergievsky's piece (when him being adviser to Syria in 1973) with symptomatic title "One Must Not Fight Like This". It also parallels Atkine's essays. Per in bold--you may very well be right. Actually, you are most likely right.

    I mean, they have Russian air support, technology, advisers and specialists…and still can’t do the very basics after all this time.
     
    From what I gather, their Tiger brigade is supposedly better prepared than others. But there is also no denial of the fact of Hezbullah also doing a bulk of fighting there.

    I don’t mean to get in the middle of yours and this peterAus troll bashing of the useless Ay-rabs, but here is something this guy wrote, while attacking the Saker, comparing the US and Russian armed forces:

    “… For me just three:
    Rule of law.
    Corruption.
    Work ethics.

    Now, COMPARE those three elements in US (or West in general) and Russia.

    As for military, say, an average mechanized brigade:
    Alcoholism in ranks.
    Relationship between officers/senior NCOs and troopers.
    Combat support services (quality and availability of spare parts and quality of maintenance….related to work ethics and alcohol, naturally).
    Quality of training…..related to personal example of officers/senior NCOs
    .”

    If you read it all, what he means is that US/”Western” forces are superior.

    This is his comment #210 to be found at http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russia-vs-america-in-syria/

    In the same comment, he says of the Saker;

    I get “virtue signalling”.
    I also get a certain hypocrisy.
    LIVING in the West and preferring Russia sounds a bit….weird?

    Which in fact would describe your case more accurately than the Saker’s….

    Now, discuss! :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    If you read it all, what he means is that US/”Western” forces are superior.
     
    I am not interested in opinions of a guy on modern warfare if he had his experienced shaped in first or even second Chechen campaigns. I made it very clear to him, nor am I interested in his assessments of modern Russian Armed Forces. Having said all that--at least, unlike you, he has some ideas which he can back with pedigree and experience. Your opinions on anything military (and especially Russia) related are, basically, trash. So,

    Now, discuss!
     
    Now, get lost!
    , @peterAUS
    Haha...nice move.

    We do have to be reminded every now and then that the Internet isn't actually for learning things but entertainment.

    And, what's better than having a flamefest isn't it?

    I....gather....that Andrei is a professional.
    I know the type; had drinks with similar guys arguing about things.

    So...we SHALL get on each other throats about some things.
    But....we will try to use our knowledge/experience to hammer out some truths, because we are what we are.

    And that is something "outsiders" don't get.

    See....Andrei can talk 98 % of shit to me....and call me names....but all I am interested is those 2 %.
    And, I just get an impression he's the same.
    Or Saker...or any of the guys with "inside angle".

    Complicated?
  181. L.K says:
    @peterAUS
    Well...I was thinking more along the line "let's see a couple of cases and figure out what happened".

    As always ...there are conflicting issue here.

    I'll start with the "bottom line".
    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how...."violence"....works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don't like (understatement) police/military/guns..."violence" (whatever that really means for them) etc.

    So...if police don't shoot they are often seen as impotent (chained by "other considerations", as political correctness etc.).

    Or..if they do shoot, they are "thugs out of control".

    There is always first an agenda to push (by either left, middle or right) and then...only then...we can see the facts.

    And....UNDERSTANDING those facts (acts of extreme violence) by people who've never been in a fistfight let alone in close firefight.........well......good luck with that.

    "They shouldn't shoot...they should've used less lethal force....they should've fired at legs/arms.....blah...blah...blah...".

    peterAUS:

    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how….”violence”….works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don’t like (understatement) police/military/guns…”violence” (whatever that really means for them

    Good grief, you are such a clown!

    You do realize you are writing this kind of crap under an article written by P. Giraldi, right?

    Phil Giraldi is a former CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer who spent twenty years overseas in Europe and the Middle East working terrorism cases.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Fair point.

    At the other hand, you do realize that "CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer " types could go through all their career never firing a shot in anger?
    You, also, perhaps, realize that there is a little difference between shooting at somebody at 600 meters with rifle and somebody at 10 meters with a handgun?
    And, also, there is a bit of difference between shooting in war/COIN and policing own citizenship?

    I just knew some highly placed, experienced, intelligent 'spooks' who couldn't hit a man sized target at 15 meters on a handgun range. Never been in fistfight....

    And, on top of all that, my comment was actually about readership, not the writer.
    Anyway, thank you for making my point.
    , @Andrei Martyanov

    Good grief, you are such a clown!
     
    Hey,hero, with reading comprehension issues, read this:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/americas-militarized-police/#comment-1947082

    I'll quote it for you:

    I do have first hand experience in training of Arab military personnel.

    Nepotism, corruption, lack of hard work, lack of discipline…list goes on.
    Homosexuality…………(now, that is an interesting topic with Arab societies).

     

    Specially for you: as I stated--I disagree with the guy on very many issues, but at least he brings some first hand experience (how it is in reality--I don't know, but I presume people speaking the truth, most of the time until caught) and at least he can have his, however controversial and wrong opinion. What's your background? Your mom's basement? What can you possibly bring to this discussion of value or of insight? Any tactical, any staff, any operational experience? Have you ever been next to "working" serious weapon systems? Have anybody shot at you with the purpose of killing or wounding you? So get back to your mom's basement and browse some porn-sites and express your opinions there--there they may have some value.
  182. @L.K
    I don't mean to get in the middle of yours and this peterAus troll bashing of the useless Ay-rabs, but here is something this guy wrote, while attacking the Saker, comparing the US and Russian armed forces:

    "... For me just three:
    Rule of law.
    Corruption.
    Work ethics.

    Now, COMPARE those three elements in US (or West in general) and Russia.

    As for military, say, an average mechanized brigade:
    Alcoholism in ranks.
    Relationship between officers/senior NCOs and troopers.
    Combat support services (quality and availability of spare parts and quality of maintenance….related to work ethics and alcohol, naturally).
    Quality of training…..related to personal example of officers/senior NCOs
    ."
     
    If you read it all, what he means is that US/"Western" forces are superior.

    This is his comment #210 to be found at http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russia-vs-america-in-syria/

    In the same comment, he says of the Saker;

    I get “virtue signalling”.
    I also get a certain hypocrisy.
    LIVING in the West and preferring Russia sounds a bit….weird?
     
    Which in fact would describe your case more accurately than the Saker's....

    Now, discuss! :-)

    If you read it all, what he means is that US/”Western” forces are superior.

    I am not interested in opinions of a guy on modern warfare if he had his experienced shaped in first or even second Chechen campaigns. I made it very clear to him, nor am I interested in his assessments of modern Russian Armed Forces. Having said all that–at least, unlike you, he has some ideas which he can back with pedigree and experience. Your opinions on anything military (and especially Russia) related are, basically, trash. So,

    Now, discuss!

    Now, get lost!

    Read More
  183. peterAUS says:

    To try to answer my own question…just an exercise.

    “Progressives/left”:
    1. Smart: we want power; whatever works to give us power and keeps us in power.
    2. Useful idiots: ah…well…those were religious nutcases….well…sad…but…they brought it up on themselves. Let’s talk about something else…how is your latte?
    “Right”
    1. Conservatives: unfortunate; we’ll need an inquiry. The most important is not to aggravate police/military…just hammer the Democrats.
    2. Racialists: those were race traitors…..who cares
    3. Gun guys: ….uhm….mmm….looks as those guns I have won’t do if THEY are onto me…hm……..mmm….I’ll get a beer and go to the range today; gotta practice more.
    “Middle”
    1. Whoah…look at that….ah…baseball on the channel “x”….switch.
    2. Look at…ah….gotta go to work/fix the car/go shopping…

    “Educated youngsters”:
    1. Look at that (15 seconds altogether)….ah…gotta check Facebook….

    “Immigrants from all over the world” living in USA:
    1. Nothing new there……..they’ve been doing that to everyone since Red Indians
    2. Well..well….they started on their own…….that’s interesting……

    Funny a?

    Read More
  184. L.K says:
    @peterAUS
    Way of-topic.
    Or maybe not taking into account "militarization" of police.
    Because there is a HUGE gap between paramilitary police and military.
    Artillery one of them.

    Speaking of which, as per your question:


    Their forces in general or SAS? I did read about some very daring SAS raids to take out airfields and other high-value assets. But even elite forces have limitations:
     
    "General" forces...: Paras, Marines and "line infantry" (Scots Guards). The Guards directly from ceremonial duties......

    I emphasize...it was not about infantry (although demanded a lot from them, obviously), it was about combined arms battle.
    And, now really boring stuff, not just about that but quality of weapons, ammunition, maintenance (both in barracks and field), specialized skill of all those in the chain...from loaders to Brigade Staff.
    THAT is what Arabs just don't have.
    Actually, that's what most of armies of this world don't have.

    Night, soggy terrain, unpredictable gusts of wind....and infantry trusted artillery so they would creep forward up to fifty meters from Argentine positions, while artillery suppressed the defense. Or simply stayed at that line while artillery would hammer defense into submission before that final "jump".
    The longest 50 meters in life.
    And, it was in 1982.

    Now, I guarantee you........you could count on one hand...maybe...maybe two hands.......armies capable of that today.

    Most of them would be lucky to get the infantry up to 400 meters....

    Haha...and I guarantee you, around 90 % of people reading this have no idea why is this so important.

    But...ask any vet what he thinks about it.

    As for that very SAS operation (and all that stuff should be taken with a GRAIN of salt), there is a very fine writing, as:
    https://www.amazon.de/Exocet-Falklands-Untold-Special-Operations-ebook/dp/B00QVZPRBK

    Hmm… interesting, but when I mentioned vets before, but what they said wasn’t to your liking, you just dismissed them with a shrug… I guess that is what shills do, eh?

    Re that little talk we were having, here is what another US vet had to say about the current Russian forces;

    On one side is Macgregor, an outspoken and controversial advocate for reform of the Army — whose weapons he describes as “obsolescent,” its senior leaders as “self-interested,” and its spending as “wasteful.” Viewed by many of his colleagues as one of the most innovative Army officers of his generation, Macgregor, a West Point graduate with a Ph.D. in international relations (“he can be pretty gruff,” a fellow West Point graduate says, “but he’s brilliant”), led the 2nd Cav’s “Cougar Squadron” in the best-known battle of Operation Desert Storm in February 1991. In 23 minutes, Macgregor’s force destroyed an entire Iraqi Armored Brigade (including nearly 70 Iraqi armored vehicles), while suffering a single American casualty….

    In the wake of the battle, however, Macgregor calculated that if his unit had fought a highly trained and better armed enemy, like the Russians, the outcome would have been different.

    This is Douglas Macgregor BTW, vet and U.S. Army Colonel, not Conor, the MMA fighter. I know, I know, just a Colonel, too low a rank for you… anyways…

    But Macgregor is still fighting that battle. In early September he circulated a PowerPoint presentation showing that in a head-to-head confrontation pitting the equivalent of a U.S. armored division against a likely Russian adversary, the U.S. division would be defeated. “Defeated isn’t the right word,” Macgregor told me last week. “The right word is annihilated.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    Hmm… interesting, but when I mentioned vets before, but what they said wasn’t to your liking, you just dismissed them with a shrug… I guess that is what shills do, eh?
     
    Let’s try to clarify something.
    My guess is that you do not have military experience.
    My guess is that you do, for any reason, like the “topic’.
    O.K.
    My advice to you is …try to read, think…and then try to argue.
    If that’s too hard for your ego (or incompatible with agenda) you won’t make it.

    So…always….rank/position/whatever credentials the person is talking…means nothing to me.
    I read squad leader post action report and get stunned. Impressive.
    I read 4 star general paper about strategy and wish to puke. Stupid.
    Complicated?
    How about the comparison for civilians: Would you trust Maddoff types when talking about YOUR money? I mean…the guys have all credentials: experience, education, intelligence…..
    Or, would you trust The Bitch regarding US foreign policy. I mean…the woman does have intelligence, education….tons of experience?
    Hard to understand what I am trying to say?

    So..that character….Douglas Macgregor…what EXACTLY is he saying?
    You could post the summary for us here I hope?
  185. peterAUS says:
    @L.K
    peterAUS:

    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how….”violence”….works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don’t like (understatement) police/military/guns…”violence” (whatever that really means for them
     
    Good grief, you are such a clown!

    You do realize you are writing this kind of crap under an article written by P. Giraldi, right?

    Phil Giraldi is a former CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer who spent twenty years overseas in Europe and the Middle East working terrorism cases.

    Fair point.

    At the other hand, you do realize that “CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer ” types could go through all their career never firing a shot in anger?
    You, also, perhaps, realize that there is a little difference between shooting at somebody at 600 meters with rifle and somebody at 10 meters with a handgun?
    And, also, there is a bit of difference between shooting in war/COIN and policing own citizenship?

    I just knew some highly placed, experienced, intelligent ‘spooks’ who couldn’t hit a man sized target at 15 meters on a handgun range. Never been in fistfight….

    And, on top of all that, my comment was actually about readership, not the writer.
    Anyway, thank you for making my point.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Oh, I understand all of the above points & in fact agree with them, but you are still a troll! :-)

    The fact is that many US cops are often trigger happy, poorly trained or trained in a wrong manner and there is plenty of evidence to support such a contention.
    This is not good policing;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yWaE8tTlsc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4KslRfBA-8

    P.S. Don't assume, making an ass of you and me, that everyone posting knows nothing about guns or violence.
  186. @L.K
    peterAUS:

    People who are the most vocal are the same people who have no idea how….”violence”….works.
    They, for some peculiar reasons really don’t like (understatement) police/military/guns…”violence” (whatever that really means for them
     
    Good grief, you are such a clown!

    You do realize you are writing this kind of crap under an article written by P. Giraldi, right?

    Phil Giraldi is a former CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer who spent twenty years overseas in Europe and the Middle East working terrorism cases.

    Good grief, you are such a clown!

    Hey,hero, with reading comprehension issues, read this:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/americas-militarized-police/#comment-1947082

    I’ll quote it for you:

    I do have first hand experience in training of Arab military personnel.

    Nepotism, corruption, lack of hard work, lack of discipline…list goes on.
    Homosexuality…………(now, that is an interesting topic with Arab societies).

    Specially for you: as I stated–I disagree with the guy on very many issues, but at least he brings some first hand experience (how it is in reality–I don’t know, but I presume people speaking the truth, most of the time until caught) and at least he can have his, however controversial and wrong opinion. What’s your background? Your mom’s basement? What can you possibly bring to this discussion of value or of insight? Any tactical, any staff, any operational experience? Have you ever been next to “working” serious weapon systems? Have anybody shot at you with the purpose of killing or wounding you? So get back to your mom’s basement and browse some porn-sites and express your opinions there–there they may have some value.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Andrei(smoothie): "I don’t know, but I presume people speaking the truth, most of the time until caught"

    You mean, like when I caught you, right? LYING about your beloved red army casualty figures(and more)?

    Until you forced me to scan a page from Krivosheev's book & upload it, you had egg on your stalinist face, but you would not concede even that basic point! Bc you are a bullshitter.

    It occurs to me that you and this peterAUS guy, you guys could be twin (evil) brothers...

    Same bullshitting style, very similar dissembling tactics, etc...

    If you did not have different handles I could mistake one for the other.

  187. peterAUS says:
    @L.K
    I don't mean to get in the middle of yours and this peterAus troll bashing of the useless Ay-rabs, but here is something this guy wrote, while attacking the Saker, comparing the US and Russian armed forces:

    "... For me just three:
    Rule of law.
    Corruption.
    Work ethics.

    Now, COMPARE those three elements in US (or West in general) and Russia.

    As for military, say, an average mechanized brigade:
    Alcoholism in ranks.
    Relationship between officers/senior NCOs and troopers.
    Combat support services (quality and availability of spare parts and quality of maintenance….related to work ethics and alcohol, naturally).
    Quality of training…..related to personal example of officers/senior NCOs
    ."
     
    If you read it all, what he means is that US/"Western" forces are superior.

    This is his comment #210 to be found at http://www.unz.com/tsaker/russia-vs-america-in-syria/

    In the same comment, he says of the Saker;

    I get “virtue signalling”.
    I also get a certain hypocrisy.
    LIVING in the West and preferring Russia sounds a bit….weird?
     
    Which in fact would describe your case more accurately than the Saker's....

    Now, discuss! :-)

    Haha…nice move.

    We do have to be reminded every now and then that the Internet isn’t actually for learning things but entertainment.

    And, what’s better than having a flamefest isn’t it?

    I….gather….that Andrei is a professional.
    I know the type; had drinks with similar guys arguing about things.

    So…we SHALL get on each other throats about some things.
    But….we will try to use our knowledge/experience to hammer out some truths, because we are what we are.

    And that is something “outsiders” don’t get.

    See….Andrei can talk 98 % of shit to me….and call me names….but all I am interested is those 2 %.
    And, I just get an impression he’s the same.
    Or Saker…or any of the guys with “inside angle”.

    Complicated?

    Read More
  188. peterAUS says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    If you read it all, what he means is that US/”Western” forces are superior.
     
    I am not interested in opinions of a guy on modern warfare if he had his experienced shaped in first or even second Chechen campaigns. I made it very clear to him, nor am I interested in his assessments of modern Russian Armed Forces. Having said all that--at least, unlike you, he has some ideas which he can back with pedigree and experience. Your opinions on anything military (and especially Russia) related are, basically, trash. So,

    Now, discuss!
     
    Now, get lost!

    Nice…as expected.

    Read More
  189. peterAUS says:
    @L.K
    Hmm... interesting, but when I mentioned vets before, but what they said wasn't to your liking, you just dismissed them with a shrug... I guess that is what shills do, eh?

    Re that little talk we were having, here is what another US vet had to say about the current Russian forces;

    On one side is Macgregor, an outspoken and controversial advocate for reform of the Army — whose weapons he describes as “obsolescent,” its senior leaders as “self-interested,” and its spending as “wasteful.” Viewed by many of his colleagues as one of the most innovative Army officers of his generation, Macgregor, a West Point graduate with a Ph.D. in international relations (“he can be pretty gruff,” a fellow West Point graduate says, “but he’s brilliant”), led the 2nd Cav’s “Cougar Squadron” in the best-known battle of Operation Desert Storm in February 1991. In 23 minutes, Macgregor’s force destroyed an entire Iraqi Armored Brigade (including nearly 70 Iraqi armored vehicles), while suffering a single American casualty....

    In the wake of the battle, however, Macgregor calculated that if his unit had fought a highly trained and better armed enemy, like the Russians, the outcome would have been different.
     
    This is Douglas Macgregor BTW, vet and U.S. Army Colonel, not Conor, the MMA fighter. I know, I know, just a Colonel, too low a rank for you... anyways...

    But Macgregor is still fighting that battle. In early September he circulated a PowerPoint presentation showing that in a head-to-head confrontation pitting the equivalent of a U.S. armored division against a likely Russian adversary, the U.S. division would be defeated. “Defeated isn’t the right word,” Macgregor told me last week. “The right word is annihilated.”
     

    Hmm… interesting, but when I mentioned vets before, but what they said wasn’t to your liking, you just dismissed them with a shrug… I guess that is what shills do, eh?

    Let’s try to clarify something.
    My guess is that you do not have military experience.
    My guess is that you do, for any reason, like the “topic’.
    O.K.
    My advice to you is …try to read, think…and then try to argue.
    If that’s too hard for your ego (or incompatible with agenda) you won’t make it.

    So…always….rank/position/whatever credentials the person is talking…means nothing to me.
    I read squad leader post action report and get stunned. Impressive.
    I read 4 star general paper about strategy and wish to puke. Stupid.
    Complicated?
    How about the comparison for civilians: Would you trust Maddoff types when talking about YOUR money? I mean…the guys have all credentials: experience, education, intelligence…..
    Or, would you trust The Bitch regarding US foreign policy. I mean…the woman does have intelligence, education….tons of experience?
    Hard to understand what I am trying to say?

    So..that character….Douglas Macgregor…what EXACTLY is he saying?
    You could post the summary for us here I hope?

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    peterAUS:

    "My guess is that you do not have military experience"
     
    Uh, depends what you mean by that; if military experience means having been to war, then no...
    If it includes a stint in the military, I served for 3 years in my corner of the woods and even became... a squad leader!

    peterAus:

    "So…always….rank/position/whatever credentials the person is talking…means nothing to me.
    I read squad leader post action report and get stunned. Impressive.
    I read 4 star general paper about strategy and wish to puke. Stupid.
    Complicated?"
     
    Not per say, except for the fact that you really are a bullshitter. For example, you wrote, in that other thread, in response to my posting of U.S. Marine Corps, Lt. Col. John Sayen's statements( which are actually from a book!):
    "Lt.Colonel….rather low rank to talk about policy/strategy…even operations. Hell, based on his EXPERIENCE, I’d say (without reading his bio) he’s never COMMANDED unit larger than a battalion"

    So, in fact, the truth is, whether the person is a private or a General, if what they say is not to your liking, bullshitters like you will immediately find something to discredit them with...
    Like Col Hackworth, started out as a private, fought in Korea, Vietnam, highly decorated... no go.

    peterAUS: "So..that character….Douglas Macgregor…what EXACTLY is he saying?
    You could post the summary for us here I hope?"

    Nope. Go read a book.

    P.S. if you don't know who Douglas Macgregor is, I'm starting to think you don't know that much about the ZUSA's military.
  190. L.K says:
    @Talha
    Hey PeterAUS,

    And, now really boring stuff, not just about that but quality of weapons, ammunition, maintenance (both in barracks and field), specialized skill of all those in the chain…from loaders to Brigade Staff. THAT is what Arabs just don’t have.
     
    I'll agree with you here - the British military is the result of centuries of military tradition well versed in modern military principles and tactics that were finely honed in the great slaughter-fests known as WW1 (often really bad tactics) and WW2. Millions of men were expended in massive blunders to make sure the European militaries figured out the right way to do things. Europeans had great sparring partners - let me tell you.

    Now, I guarantee you……..you could count on one hand…maybe…maybe two hands…….armies capable of that today.
     
    Agree there - I think maybe only the Turks and Pakistanis and possibly the Iranians could pull off something like 100-200, but I don't have full confidence in either of them to do so 100% of the time.

    When dealing with Arabs, one must try to figure out which ones they are talking about. And also remember that for centuries their defense was the responsibility of the Ottomans who fielded a very capable officer corps from a long military tradition and this would often include Bosnians and Albanians who provided the core of the defense force (with local Arab militias providing the auxiliary support). The Arabs definitely gained independence, and have had to learn to defend their own territories after having someone else do it for them all this time - it's been a hard lesson.

    Peace.

    Hello uncle Talha,

    Colonel Lang’s viewpoint re the Israli-Arab wars.
    First though, Lang’s bio:

    Colonel W. Patrick Lang is a retired senior officer of U.S. Military Intelligence and U.S. Army Special Forces (The Green Berets). He served in the Department of Defense both as a serving officer and then as a member of the Defense Senior Executive Service for many years. He is a highly decorated veteran of several of America’s overseas conflicts including the war in Vietnam. He was trained and educated as a specialist in the Middle East by the U.S. Army and served in that region for many years.

    Re the Israeli-Arab wars:

    It must be said that they[the Israelis] have typically been lucky in their enemies and that if they had faced more serious enemies, they would have had a much different experience than the ones they had. In the Golan Heights the Syrians gave them a very difficult time in 1973[...]The Jordanians gave them a run for their money in 1948-49. Hizbullah delivered a hint of the inherent limits in such a socio-military system in 2006 and now we are seeing whatever it is that we will see at Gaza.

    Also of interest is that in the war of 48, the Israeli forces were much larger and better armed. Author and former Middle East correspondent, Alan Hart:

    As to the actual fighting in 1948 here is the key to complete understanding. Early on there was a month long truce. When the fighting resumed it was 20,000 Arab soldiers, poorly trained and equipped, lacking motivation and badly led, against 80,000 Israeli forces, well trained and equipped, highly motivated and well led.

    Also, as you have noted , some Arab militaries are better than others;
    Col Lang on the Jordanian army:

    The Jordanian army has a long record of victory. The only instance of their defeat was at the hands of the IDF in 1967. In that case the IDF air force destroyed their armored forces, specifically the 40th Armored Brigade under Zeid bin Shakir. The Jordanians had no adequate anti-air defenses. In 1948 the Palmach(elite israeli forces) lost 800 odd dead trying to take the Latrun police fort from the Jordanians. The Jordanians had one infantry company in the fort.

    For a good article on how Hezbollah defeated Israel in 06, former high ranking MI6 intel officer, Alastair Crooke’s 3 set piece is probably the best;
    HOW HEZBOLLAH DEFEATED ISRAEL
    PART 2: Winning the ground war – http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ13Ak01.html

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Dear Nephew,

    I remember reading a similar assessment a few years ago - maybe it was by the same author.

    "some Arab militaries are better than others"

    Yeah - I really don't expect much from the Algerians for instance, but who the hell wants to fight them? For what? Beach front property?

    Thanks for the references!

    Peace.

  191. @peterAUS
    About America's militarized police.....

    Not bad article.
    Plenty of comments; some of them quite good.

    People appear to be interested in the topic.

    So.....why is that nobody mentioned Waco, Texas?
    I'll repeat............WACO......TEXAS !!

    That is, in plain sight, a method how the leader of free world deals with perceived challenge to own power...credibility....call it whatever you want.

    That is an elephant in the living room nobody wants to talk about.

    And, it was Democrats in power.
    And nobody was held responsible.
    Not for overkill, misuse of state power....not even for errors, incompetence....simple blunder.
    Nothing.

    Nothing for gassing and burning alive American women and children.

    Too scary to look at?
    Too humiliating that the home of the free and brave allowed that not only to pass....but to have willing participants totally of the hook?
    From shooters on the ground to the Great President?

    So.............?

    Pete — please don’t conflate Interior Ministry troops with local police and sheriff’s departments.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    I am not quite sure I am following you here.
    Could you please clarify?
  192. L.K says:
    @peterAUS
    Fair point.

    At the other hand, you do realize that "CIA Case Officer and Army Intelligence Officer " types could go through all their career never firing a shot in anger?
    You, also, perhaps, realize that there is a little difference between shooting at somebody at 600 meters with rifle and somebody at 10 meters with a handgun?
    And, also, there is a bit of difference between shooting in war/COIN and policing own citizenship?

    I just knew some highly placed, experienced, intelligent 'spooks' who couldn't hit a man sized target at 15 meters on a handgun range. Never been in fistfight....

    And, on top of all that, my comment was actually about readership, not the writer.
    Anyway, thank you for making my point.

    Oh, I understand all of the above points & in fact agree with them, but you are still a troll! :-)

    The fact is that many US cops are often trigger happy, poorly trained or trained in a wrong manner and there is plenty of evidence to support such a contention.
    This is not good policing;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yWaE8tTlsc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4KslRfBA-8

    P.S. Don’t assume, making an ass of you and me, that everyone posting knows nothing about guns or violence.

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  193. Talha says:
    @L.K
    Hello uncle Talha,

    Colonel Lang's viewpoint re the Israli-Arab wars.
    First though, Lang's bio:

    Colonel W. Patrick Lang is a retired senior officer of U.S. Military Intelligence and U.S. Army Special Forces (The Green Berets). He served in the Department of Defense both as a serving officer and then as a member of the Defense Senior Executive Service for many years. He is a highly decorated veteran of several of America's overseas conflicts including the war in Vietnam. He was trained and educated as a specialist in the Middle East by the U.S. Army and served in that region for many years.
     
    Re the Israeli-Arab wars:

    It must be said that they[the Israelis] have typically been lucky in their enemies and that if they had faced more serious enemies, they would have had a much different experience than the ones they had. In the Golan Heights the Syrians gave them a very difficult time in 1973[...]The Jordanians gave them a run for their money in 1948-49. Hizbullah delivered a hint of the inherent limits in such a socio-military system in 2006 and now we are seeing whatever it is that we will see at Gaza.
     
    Also of interest is that in the war of 48, the Israeli forces were much larger and better armed. Author and former Middle East correspondent, Alan Hart:

    As to the actual fighting in 1948 here is the key to complete understanding. Early on there was a month long truce. When the fighting resumed it was 20,000 Arab soldiers, poorly trained and equipped, lacking motivation and badly led, against 80,000 Israeli forces, well trained and equipped, highly motivated and well led.
     
    Also, as you have noted , some Arab militaries are better than others;
    Col Lang on the Jordanian army:

    The Jordanian army has a long record of victory. The only instance of their defeat was at the hands of the IDF in 1967. In that case the IDF air force destroyed their armored forces, specifically the 40th Armored Brigade under Zeid bin Shakir. The Jordanians had no adequate anti-air defenses. In 1948 the Palmach(elite israeli forces) lost 800 odd dead trying to take the Latrun police fort from the Jordanians. The Jordanians had one infantry company in the fort.
     
    For a good article on how Hezbollah defeated Israel in 06, former high ranking MI6 intel officer, Alastair Crooke's 3 set piece is probably the best;
    HOW HEZBOLLAH DEFEATED ISRAEL
    PART 2: Winning the ground war - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HJ13Ak01.html

    Dear Nephew,

    I remember reading a similar assessment a few years ago – maybe it was by the same author.

    “some Arab militaries are better than others”

    Yeah – I really don’t expect much from the Algerians for instance, but who the hell wants to fight them? For what? Beach front property?

    Thanks for the references!

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov

    I really don’t expect much from the Algerians for instance
     
    But you should. For starters, many of them went through naval academy in Brest (Ecole Navale') and gave a good account of themselves. Others (I knew couple, with one we had a pretty lengthy talk) who evidently screw too many French girls and was exiled to KVVMKU, and were absolutely crushed by tactical and math and physics curriculum. They were known as Lyzhi (Russian for Skiees) and my worst night was in Summer 1982 when Algerian national team won FRG (West Germany) at World Cup in Spain. SOBs put themselves in the rank and file "box" and were running around naval academy all night shouting their Algerian songs. Each time they would pass out company's (actually two of them) quarters we would scream at them Poshli Na Hui (google, google) from our windows and they would scream back--Spasibo. Well, what do you say--Algiers beating West Germany--realistically historic. I believe it was interference of academy and faculty duty officers and threats from guards from academy's arsenal (they were passing each time) to "interfere" that got them to calm down and go to their hostel. We still heard them singing all night from quarter of a mile. The problem--this was the night we shipped off to some.... location. SOBs didn't allow us to sleep. They are pretty competent. I guess French "thing" plays the role and who didn't love The Umbrellas Of Cherbourg.
  194. L.K says:
    @peterAUS

    Hmm… interesting, but when I mentioned vets before, but what they said wasn’t to your liking, you just dismissed them with a shrug… I guess that is what shills do, eh?
     
    Let’s try to clarify something.
    My guess is that you do not have military experience.
    My guess is that you do, for any reason, like the “topic’.
    O.K.
    My advice to you is …try to read, think…and then try to argue.
    If that’s too hard for your ego (or incompatible with agenda) you won’t make it.

    So…always….rank/position/whatever credentials the person is talking…means nothing to me.
    I read squad leader post action report and get stunned. Impressive.
    I read 4 star general paper about strategy and wish to puke. Stupid.
    Complicated?
    How about the comparison for civilians: Would you trust Maddoff types when talking about YOUR money? I mean…the guys have all credentials: experience, education, intelligence…..
    Or, would you trust The Bitch regarding US foreign policy. I mean…the woman does have intelligence, education….tons of experience?
    Hard to understand what I am trying to say?

    So..that character….Douglas Macgregor…what EXACTLY is he saying?
    You could post the summary for us here I hope?

    peterAUS:

    “My guess is that you do not have military experience”

    Uh, depends what you mean by that; if military experience means having been to war, then no…
    If it includes a stint in the military, I served for 3 years in my corner of the woods and even became… a squad leader!

    peterAus:

    “So…always….rank/position/whatever credentials the person is talking…means nothing to me.
    I read squad leader post action report and get stunned. Impressive.
    I read 4 star general paper about strategy and wish to puke. Stupid.
    Complicated?”

    Not per say, except for the fact that you really are a bullshitter. For example, you wrote, in that other thread, in response to my posting of U.S. Marine Corps, Lt. Col. John Sayen’s statements( which are actually from a book!):
    “Lt.Colonel….rather low rank to talk about policy/strategy…even operations. Hell, based on his EXPERIENCE, I’d say (without reading his bio) he’s never COMMANDED unit larger than a battalion”

    So, in fact, the truth is, whether the person is a private or a General, if what they say is not to your liking, bullshitters like you will immediately find something to discredit them with…
    Like Col Hackworth, started out as a private, fought in Korea, Vietnam, highly decorated… no go.

    peterAUS: “So..that character….Douglas Macgregor…what EXACTLY is he saying?
    You could post the summary for us here I hope?”

    Nope. Go read a book.

    P.S. if you don’t know who Douglas Macgregor is, I’m starting to think you don’t know that much about the ZUSA’s military.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS

    ....I served for 3 years in my corner of the woods and even became… a squad leader!....
     
    O..................K............

    What do you think....what would be an effective range of AK-47 rifle?

    Say....what would be a distance from the enemy position a guy could get you from?
    One shooter only, with an AK-47 platform, iron sights, wooden stock, you are just standing up (day, of course, no wind)?
    He gets one round only, no corrections....

    What do you think?
  195. L.K says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Good grief, you are such a clown!
     
    Hey,hero, with reading comprehension issues, read this:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/americas-militarized-police/#comment-1947082

    I'll quote it for you:

    I do have first hand experience in training of Arab military personnel.

    Nepotism, corruption, lack of hard work, lack of discipline…list goes on.
    Homosexuality…………(now, that is an interesting topic with Arab societies).

     

    Specially for you: as I stated--I disagree with the guy on very many issues, but at least he brings some first hand experience (how it is in reality--I don't know, but I presume people speaking the truth, most of the time until caught) and at least he can have his, however controversial and wrong opinion. What's your background? Your mom's basement? What can you possibly bring to this discussion of value or of insight? Any tactical, any staff, any operational experience? Have you ever been next to "working" serious weapon systems? Have anybody shot at you with the purpose of killing or wounding you? So get back to your mom's basement and browse some porn-sites and express your opinions there--there they may have some value.

    Andrei(smoothie): “I don’t know, but I presume people speaking the truth, most of the time until caught”

    You mean, like when I caught you, right? LYING about your beloved red army casualty figures(and more)?

    Until you forced me to scan a page from Krivosheev’s book & upload it, you had egg on your stalinist face, but you would not concede even that basic point! Bc you are a bullshitter.

    It occurs to me that you and this peterAUS guy, you guys could be twin (evil) brothers…

    Same bullshitting style, very similar dissembling tactics, etc…

    If you did not have different handles I could mistake one for the other.

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  196. L.K says:
    @peterAUS

    Syria may somewhat change the trend with Syrian Army being definitely battle-hardened but opinion of SAA’s General Staff is still very low.
     
    Well, I really doubt it.

    After all this time SAA simply can't do any combined arms operation above the level of small brigade, and even that not well.
    I simply haven't seen the basics yet....artillery support of mechanized attack in daytime, just at battalion level (close support of attack/assault that is).
    Let alone the same at night.

    I believe the cause is really cultural (probably racial too....).

    I mean, they have Russian air support, technology, advisers and specialists...and still can't do the very basics after all this time.

    Actually, personally, I believe that even Russians got surprised, after getting into it, how bad SAA was/is.
    I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over.
    And, then, when watching/analyzing SAA ground forces I got that they simply can't do that. And IMHO, they will never get it.

    You are laughable. Your whole post about the war in Syria is a mere caricature.

    Look at the kind of shit you write: “I was expecting, when Russian air-campaign started, that in a less than 6 months tops that war would be over.”

    What a ridiculous statement… only someone who knows very little about the war in Syria or … someone with deep seated prejudices and an agenda could write such idiocies… in your case, given that you seem to post over at MoA, and the author there, a retired German army officer, has been doing a solid job covering the war in Syria, the only explanation is that you really are pretty dishonest.

    For now though, you said the useless Syrians cannot win the war – while totally ignoring the role of the ZUSA & friends – even though they are only fighting “militias”….

    First, let me say those “militias” are much better armed, funded and supported and numerous than the Taliban.

    Now, the ZUSA and the criminal Brits, plus smaller NATO contingents, and the Afghan forces they have raised, are fighting what, exactly?

    The Taliban is a militia, no? The ZUSA coalition has been there since 01 and there is no comparison at all between the modest resources available to the Syrian military and the US and British forces…

    Yet, no victory. I’m sure you’ll come up with a clever explanation(bullshitting) for all that, though…

    Stalinist liar martyanov certainly would…

    Anyway, despite the ZUSA’s criminal coalition best efforts, Syria & its allies are winning the war. But you knew that already.

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  197. iffen says:
    @Avery
    [Somewhere between Yerevan and Stepanakert]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_QP-ICgkBY

    Long range artillery and missiles moving from Yerevan to Stepanakert on the 2nd day of the 4-day war, in preparation of a counterattack.

    The myth of cooperation in the Muslim world is as enduring as the myth of cooperation in Christendom

    Winner! Winner! Chicken dinner!

    Read More
  198. @Gregg Simson
    A Rachel Corrie

    Much more than just ‘a woman’ …what They left out: Holistic Healer/Dr. Justine Damond killed by police in Minneapolis
    By Erin Elizabeth – July 16, 2017
    …Dr. Justine Damond, 40,
    a well known Australian holistic healer, cancer researcher
    and
    trained veterinarian surgeon from Sydney,
    was
    shot dead…

    https://www.healthnutnews.com/spiritual-healer-killed-by-police-in-minneapolis/

    Holistic Doctor Death Series: Over 60 Dead In Just Over A Year
    By Erin Elizabeth
    … Sadly, most mainstream sites barely cover one doctor, let alone the dozens we’ve had die this year, if we count mysterious accidents, murders, alleged suicides, or unexplained sudden deaths.

    As you will see in the timeline below, there are allegedly 3 different dates within one month where 2 doctors died on the same day. That’s 6 doctors (who died in pairs on 3 different days).

    Some of the biggest skeptics, those who rolled their eyes at the first few deaths, are now wondering if there isn’t a connection. There have been theories, from GcMAF to CBD oil, but I don’t think all doctors used both of these treatments. I’m not convinced either is the smoking gun, but might hold part of the answer…Besides the fact that the majority were holistic, there is another common theme; they all cared deeply and were passionate about health. I have endless emails from their friends, patients, neighbors, loved ones, and family members. It’s clear they were adored by many.
    …See below for the official detailed timeline. NOTE: There is often more than one doctor per # listed. Some paragraphs mention 8 dead doctors in one single sentence with links…

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  199. @Talha
    Dear Nephew,

    I remember reading a similar assessment a few years ago - maybe it was by the same author.

    "some Arab militaries are better than others"

    Yeah - I really don't expect much from the Algerians for instance, but who the hell wants to fight them? For what? Beach front property?

    Thanks for the references!

    Peace.

    I really don’t expect much from the Algerians for instance

    But you should. For starters, many of them went through naval academy in Brest (Ecole Navale’) and gave a good account of themselves. Others (I knew couple, with one we had a pretty lengthy talk) who evidently screw too many French girls and was exiled to KVVMKU, and were absolutely crushed by tactical and math and physics curriculum. They were known as Lyzhi (Russian for Skiees) and my worst night was in Summer 1982 when Algerian national team won FRG (West Germany) at World Cup in Spain. SOBs put themselves in the rank and file “box” and were running around naval academy all night shouting their Algerian songs. Each time they would pass out company’s (actually two of them) quarters we would scream at them Poshli Na Hui (google, google) from our windows and they would scream back–Spasibo. Well, what do you say–Algiers beating West Germany–realistically historic. I believe it was interference of academy and faculty duty officers and threats from guards from academy’s arsenal (they were passing each time) to “interfere” that got them to calm down and go to their hostel. We still heard them singing all night from quarter of a mile. The problem–this was the night we shipped off to some…. location. SOBs didn’t allow us to sleep. They are pretty competent. I guess French “thing” plays the role and who didn’t love The Umbrellas Of Cherbourg.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Andrei,

    LOL! Love that story. Yeah - can't blame them for celebrating on that occasion.

    They are pretty competent.
     
    You are in a far better position to make that judgement than I am, so I'll take your word for it. The reasons I mentioned them is that they really haven't had a real modern war with anybody of note other than clashes with their neighbors - which aren't really top-tier. But Egypt, for example, has tangoed with the Bretis, French and Israelis. Sure they may have lost more than they won, but you learn a lot even when you lose. Especially going up against nations that received their credentials in WW2. I guess what I'm saying is that the Algeriann army isn't really battle-tested. Sure they had their war against the terrorist insurgents of GIA, but those guys were just a precursor to groups like Daesh - just a bunch of butchering foot-soldiers.

    I'm not a military expert by any means, but I have read quite a bit on Muslim military history. The impression I get is that war is a bit like boxing. You get better with practice and it depends on who your sparring partner is. So for instance, anybody who went up against the Wehrmacht and survived probably gained a hell of a lot of knowledge of what to and what not to do. One of the reasons it seems the Ottomans did spectacularly well in Southern and Eastern Europe at the height of their power was that, to the East, they had crossed swords with the likes of the Timurids and the Safavids - both extremely solid Asian empires as well as survived a fairly crazy civil war - that is a heck of a lot of good experience, even when losing.

    For instance, I read that one of the reasons that Muhammad Ali was so good was that he had first class sparring partners - men that were very legit fighters on their own.

    Peace.
  200. Talha says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I really don’t expect much from the Algerians for instance
     
    But you should. For starters, many of them went through naval academy in Brest (Ecole Navale') and gave a good account of themselves. Others (I knew couple, with one we had a pretty lengthy talk) who evidently screw too many French girls and was exiled to KVVMKU, and were absolutely crushed by tactical and math and physics curriculum. They were known as Lyzhi (Russian for Skiees) and my worst night was in Summer 1982 when Algerian national team won FRG (West Germany) at World Cup in Spain. SOBs put themselves in the rank and file "box" and were running around naval academy all night shouting their Algerian songs. Each time they would pass out company's (actually two of them) quarters we would scream at them Poshli Na Hui (google, google) from our windows and they would scream back--Spasibo. Well, what do you say--Algiers beating West Germany--realistically historic. I believe it was interference of academy and faculty duty officers and threats from guards from academy's arsenal (they were passing each time) to "interfere" that got them to calm down and go to their hostel. We still heard them singing all night from quarter of a mile. The problem--this was the night we shipped off to some.... location. SOBs didn't allow us to sleep. They are pretty competent. I guess French "thing" plays the role and who didn't love The Umbrellas Of Cherbourg.

    Hey Andrei,

    LOL! Love that story. Yeah – can’t blame them for celebrating on that occasion.

    They are pretty competent.

    You are in a far better position to make that judgement than I am, so I’ll take your word for it. The reasons I mentioned them is that they really haven’t had a real modern war with anybody of note other than clashes with their neighbors – which aren’t really top-tier. But Egypt, for example, has tangoed with the Bretis, French and Israelis. Sure they may have lost more than they won, but you learn a lot even when you lose. Especially going up against nations that received their credentials in WW2. I guess what I’m saying is that the Algeriann army isn’t really battle-tested. Sure they had their war against the terrorist insurgents of GIA, but those guys were just a precursor to groups like Daesh – just a bunch of butchering foot-soldiers.

    I’m not a military expert by any means, but I have read quite a bit on Muslim military history. The impression I get is that war is a bit like boxing. You get better with practice and it depends on who your sparring partner is. So for instance, anybody who went up against the Wehrmacht and survived probably gained a hell of a lot of knowledge of what to and what not to do. One of the reasons it seems the Ottomans did spectacularly well in Southern and Eastern Europe at the height of their power was that, to the East, they had crossed swords with the likes of the Timurids and the Safavids – both extremely solid Asian empires as well as survived a fairly crazy civil war – that is a heck of a lot of good experience, even when losing.

    For instance, I read that one of the reasons that Muhammad Ali was so good was that he had first class sparring partners – men that were very legit fighters on their own.

    Peace.

    Read More
  201. peterAUS says:
    @SteveRogers42
    Pete -- please don't conflate Interior Ministry troops with local police and sheriff's departments.

    I am not quite sure I am following you here.
    Could you please clarify?

    Read More
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    The atrocities at Waco and Ruby Ridge were conducted by federal agencies (FBI and BATF) with full approval all the way up the chain of command. What their use-of-force continuum is, I do not know, but I DO know that if a municipal PD or county Sheriff's Dept. had shot an unarmed mother holding a baby or had rammed armored vehicles into a church full of children and set it on fire, all parties involved would have done lengthy prison terms. There is a significant double standard in the way that federal LEO's are allowed to conduct themselves, as opposed to local agencies, which are subjected to legal action and weeks of national scrutiny every time some career criminal gets his hair mussed while assaulting a local policeman. Jan ("The Man") Reno should be living out her days in her own personal episode of Orange is the New Black, but instead...nada.

    Under recent Democratic administrations, these federal agencies have been groomed as the prototypes for Obama's "civilian national security force...just as big and just as well funded as the military". Manufactured uproar over local police scandals plays right into the hands of those who would federalize U.S. law enforcement, because the DOJ consent decrees that are imposed in the wake of these events allow federal oversight and control to a degree that SHOULD be found to be un-Constitutional.

    This is the true nature of "militarizing" America's police -- the Controllers' dream of replacing local authority with an overarching federal behemoth that would conduct itself like the USSR's MVD. Then, episodes like Waco and Ruby Ridge would become the norm, instead of the shameful aberrations they are today.
  202. peterAUS says:
    @L.K
    peterAUS:

    "My guess is that you do not have military experience"
     
    Uh, depends what you mean by that; if military experience means having been to war, then no...
    If it includes a stint in the military, I served for 3 years in my corner of the woods and even became... a squad leader!

    peterAus:

    "So…always….rank/position/whatever credentials the person is talking…means nothing to me.
    I read squad leader post action report and get stunned. Impressive.
    I read 4 star general paper about strategy and wish to puke. Stupid.
    Complicated?"
     
    Not per say, except for the fact that you really are a bullshitter. For example, you wrote, in that other thread, in response to my posting of U.S. Marine Corps, Lt. Col. John Sayen's statements( which are actually from a book!):
    "Lt.Colonel….rather low rank to talk about policy/strategy…even operations. Hell, based on his EXPERIENCE, I’d say (without reading his bio) he’s never COMMANDED unit larger than a battalion"

    So, in fact, the truth is, whether the person is a private or a General, if what they say is not to your liking, bullshitters like you will immediately find something to discredit them with...
    Like Col Hackworth, started out as a private, fought in Korea, Vietnam, highly decorated... no go.

    peterAUS: "So..that character….Douglas Macgregor…what EXACTLY is he saying?
    You could post the summary for us here I hope?"

    Nope. Go read a book.

    P.S. if you don't know who Douglas Macgregor is, I'm starting to think you don't know that much about the ZUSA's military.

    ….I served for 3 years in my corner of the woods and even became… a squad leader!….

    O………………K…………

    What do you think….what would be an effective range of AK-47 rifle?

    Say….what would be a distance from the enemy position a guy could get you from?
    One shooter only, with an AK-47 platform, iron sights, wooden stock, you are just standing up (day, of course, no wind)?
    He gets one round only, no corrections….

    What do you think?

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Typical trolling.... not willing to discuss the issues raised, you then try to make this about me.

    I cannot really say anything about the AK-47, since I never had the opportunity to fire one... maybe some day, if i get lucky... we used the FN FAL 7,62mm.

    Then again, it all depends on the operator and the level of training & practice.
    Depending on who's behind the gun, results may vary dramatically.

    Anyways, is the Taliban not a militia? and a poorly funded & armed one at that?
  203. @peterAUS
    About America's militarized police.....

    Not bad article.
    Plenty of comments; some of them quite good.

    People appear to be interested in the topic.

    So.....why is that nobody mentioned Waco, Texas?
    I'll repeat............WACO......TEXAS !!

    That is, in plain sight, a method how the leader of free world deals with perceived challenge to own power...credibility....call it whatever you want.

    That is an elephant in the living room nobody wants to talk about.

    And, it was Democrats in power.
    And nobody was held responsible.
    Not for overkill, misuse of state power....not even for errors, incompetence....simple blunder.
    Nothing.

    Nothing for gassing and burning alive American women and children.

    Too scary to look at?
    Too humiliating that the home of the free and brave allowed that not only to pass....but to have willing participants totally of the hook?
    From shooters on the ground to the Great President?

    So.............?

    They were Democrats, and Democrats are always forgiven for the same actions for which the Republicans would be excoriated.

    If a Republican president would have been dicking a young intern in the WH he would have been tarred and feathered, and run out on a rail.

    I am not claiming that Republicans do not have their share of scoundrels and scumbags, as they do, however the Democrats are the world champions at underhandedness, dishonesty, corruption and dissolute behavior.

    And the sad fact is as long as they control the media, edumacation, justitia and Hollywood they will win every battle, as the Republicans are still terrified of the expressions : Racist, and Racism
    The only solution to this checkmate and dilema is for the Republicans to start labeling the Democrats as : Racists.
    Meaning to simply throw back the same garbage at them.
    They, the Republicans, are however too chicken to engage in this brilliant strategy and therefore will remain powerless.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Agree.

    That's probably what got Trump into power.

    Which brings me to an issue that's been puzzling me since the election.

    Maybe you could add some input there.

    Say....this 'populist' thing in USA (Trump victory).

    'Progs/dems/left/people who voted for The Bitch/whatever' are quite quick, and even efficient, in pulling demonstrations/public display of numbers supporting their issues.

    So...the question is: why we do not see the same from the people who voted for Trump?

    Isn't that, actually, the most powerful weapon 'populist' leaders have?

    Say....100.000 people demonstrating to hasten the build of The Wall?
    Or....saying "enough" to active obstructions of Trump's jobs/immigration election promises?
    Or....this 'Russian hacking" BS?

    Ah...and while we are still on the topic of 'militarized police' and Waco, an addition why nobody cared/care:
    "People of faith"
    1. True believers: they weren't worshiping The True and Only God (mine/ours of course).
    2. Organized religion: as above, plus 'WE have to control the flock...not some chosen (by us, naturally) outsider.

    "Members of state tools"
    1. Police (from sheriff department to FBI): you do NOT shoot back........EVER. You submit to our demand or .....you get this. Remember that.
    2. Military
    a) top brass: well, Cold War is over...what now? Ah....internal dissent...and...hehe...civilians can't handle it. Beautiful.
    b) shooters: Cool. Let's put all that training into practice. Cool....
    And,never spoken, of course, but....how does it feel when you take life?
  204. peterAUS says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    They were Democrats, and Democrats are always forgiven for the same actions for which the Republicans would be excoriated.

    If a Republican president would have been dicking a young intern in the WH he would have been tarred and feathered, and run out on a rail.

    I am not claiming that Republicans do not have their share of scoundrels and scumbags, as they do, however the Democrats are the world champions at underhandedness, dishonesty, corruption and dissolute behavior.

    And the sad fact is as long as they control the media, edumacation, justitia and Hollywood they will win every battle, as the Republicans are still terrified of the expressions : Racist, and Racism
    The only solution to this checkmate and dilema is for the Republicans to start labeling the Democrats as : Racists.
    Meaning to simply throw back the same garbage at them.
    They, the Republicans, are however too chicken to engage in this brilliant strategy and therefore will remain powerless.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    Agree.

    That’s probably what got Trump into power.

    Which brings me to an issue that’s been puzzling me since the election.

    Maybe you could add some input there.

    Say….this ‘populist’ thing in USA (Trump victory).

    ‘Progs/dems/left/people who voted for The Bitch/whatever’ are quite quick, and even efficient, in pulling demonstrations/public display of numbers supporting their issues.

    So…the question is: why we do not see the same from the people who voted for Trump?

    Isn’t that, actually, the most powerful weapon ‘populist’ leaders have?

    Say….100.000 people demonstrating to hasten the build of The Wall?
    Or….saying “enough” to active obstructions of Trump’s jobs/immigration election promises?
    Or….this ‘Russian hacking” BS?

    Ah…and while we are still on the topic of ‘militarized police’ and Waco, an addition why nobody cared/care:
    “People of faith”
    1. True believers: they weren’t worshiping The True and Only God (mine/ours of course).
    2. Organized religion: as above, plus ‘WE have to control the flock…not some chosen (by us, naturally) outsider.

    “Members of state tools”
    1. Police (from sheriff department to FBI): you do NOT shoot back……..EVER. You submit to our demand or …..you get this. Remember that.
    2. Military
    a) top brass: well, Cold War is over…what now? Ah….internal dissent…and…hehe…civilians can’t handle it. Beautiful.
    b) shooters: Cool. Let’s put all that training into practice. Cool….
    And,never spoken, of course, but….how does it feel when you take life?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    Very simple : people who voted for DT are busy trying to make a dignified living, raise their kids and stay above water, they have no time for demonstrating and no inclination for destruction.

    Demonstrators/Democrats, activists etc are for the most part living off of the labors of the working stiffs, and they have time on their hands and hatred in their hearts.

    The Party of the Democrats has aways been the party of ignorant, uninformed small-minded, not all of them, fools, and the honchos, opportunists,"Politicians" who manage, in some sort of mysterious manner to become millionaires, through concocting unter-the-table deals while in office.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet, and pro jazz artist.
  205. @Chris Mallory

    With a nationalized police force, Federalized national guard units, and the US Army, ordinary citizens would be helpless if these forces were arrayed against them regardless how many individual weapons the citizens might possess.
     
    All of those groups add up to roughly 3-3.5 million men. Armed citizens would vastly outnumber them. If just 3% of the population decided to resist, that would be 9 million people. 9 million "rebels" who speak the language, know the customs, and can swim through the general population like fish in the sea.


    Those tank and drone drivers have to eat, sleep, and crap sometime.

    These 9 million rebels would be hard put with their limited firepower against tanks, grenades, artillery, and fighter-bomber aircraft to name a few of the serious weapons which would be available to the Federales standing army of 3.5 million. Actually no contest. The best the nine million could do would be to fight a guerrilla type war, but the guerrillas still need to be resupplied.

    Read More
  206. @peterAUS
    I am not quite sure I am following you here.
    Could you please clarify?

    The atrocities at Waco and Ruby Ridge were conducted by federal agencies (FBI and BATF) with full approval all the way up the chain of command. What their use-of-force continuum is, I do not know, but I DO know that if a municipal PD or county Sheriff’s Dept. had shot an unarmed mother holding a baby or had rammed armored vehicles into a church full of children and set it on fire, all parties involved would have done lengthy prison terms. There is a significant double standard in the way that federal LEO’s are allowed to conduct themselves, as opposed to local agencies, which are subjected to legal action and weeks of national scrutiny every time some career criminal gets his hair mussed while assaulting a local policeman. Jan (“The Man”) Reno should be living out her days in her own personal episode of Orange is the New Black, but instead…nada.

    Under recent Democratic administrations, these federal agencies have been groomed as the prototypes for Obama’s “civilian national security force…just as big and just as well funded as the military”. Manufactured uproar over local police scandals plays right into the hands of those who would federalize U.S. law enforcement, because the DOJ consent decrees that are imposed in the wake of these events allow federal oversight and control to a degree that SHOULD be found to be un-Constitutional.

    This is the true nature of “militarizing” America’s police — the Controllers’ dream of replacing local authority with an overarching federal behemoth that would conduct itself like the USSR’s MVD. Then, episodes like Waco and Ruby Ridge would become the norm, instead of the shameful aberrations they are today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    if a municipal PD or county Sheriff’s Dept. had shot an unarmed mother holding a baby or had rammed armored vehicles into a church full of children and set it on fire, all parties involved would have done lengthy prison terms
     
    not so sure about that

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa_oXfd8gDY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBuwceiQ5Ik

    none of these murderous cops (and many, many more) have done so much as one day's jail time

    not to diminish the unspeakable evil of Waco and Ruby Ridge tho

    and here's some rather surprising good news

    http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/fbi-agent-killed-lavoy-finicum-hires-dc-lawyer/

    , @peterAUS
    Well.....I am not quite sure I agree with you here.

    I guess that your point is that local police force is fundamentally different from federal security apparatus.

    I can't say I buy that.

    My understanding is that the "Waco operation" (no need to get into proper names, acronyms etc. I hope) was a combined, integrated effort by all police/security forces in the area, from the local sheriff to FBI (and US military which is another, more serious, but conventionally overlooked matter).
    All elements had their assigned role and I am not aware of any breach of discipline, resignation during the operation let alone mutiny in ranks.
    Or, God forbids, actively helping Davidians.

    So, while it is correct that the brunt of "work" was done by FBI and "Delta Force", all the rest played their roles well.

    We know that, actually, without local guys playing their roles quite well, all that wouldn't have worked.
    Wider perimeter security, providing logistics, help with reconnaissance, help with
    gathering intelligence about the compound and people inside etc....all local guys work.

    My point is...they are all the same...cogs in the same machine, they just do different work.

    But, of course, it goes deeper.

    The roots are deep within US society.
    That's why nobody cared then and nobody cares now.
  207. Rurik says: • Website
    @SteveRogers42
    The atrocities at Waco and Ruby Ridge were conducted by federal agencies (FBI and BATF) with full approval all the way up the chain of command. What their use-of-force continuum is, I do not know, but I DO know that if a municipal PD or county Sheriff's Dept. had shot an unarmed mother holding a baby or had rammed armored vehicles into a church full of children and set it on fire, all parties involved would have done lengthy prison terms. There is a significant double standard in the way that federal LEO's are allowed to conduct themselves, as opposed to local agencies, which are subjected to legal action and weeks of national scrutiny every time some career criminal gets his hair mussed while assaulting a local policeman. Jan ("The Man") Reno should be living out her days in her own personal episode of Orange is the New Black, but instead...nada.

    Under recent Democratic administrations, these federal agencies have been groomed as the prototypes for Obama's "civilian national security force...just as big and just as well funded as the military". Manufactured uproar over local police scandals plays right into the hands of those who would federalize U.S. law enforcement, because the DOJ consent decrees that are imposed in the wake of these events allow federal oversight and control to a degree that SHOULD be found to be un-Constitutional.

    This is the true nature of "militarizing" America's police -- the Controllers' dream of replacing local authority with an overarching federal behemoth that would conduct itself like the USSR's MVD. Then, episodes like Waco and Ruby Ridge would become the norm, instead of the shameful aberrations they are today.

    if a municipal PD or county Sheriff’s Dept. had shot an unarmed mother holding a baby or had rammed armored vehicles into a church full of children and set it on fire, all parties involved would have done lengthy prison terms

    not so sure about that

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa_oXfd8gDY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBuwceiQ5Ik

    none of these murderous cops (and many, many more) have done so much as one day’s jail time

    not to diminish the unspeakable evil of Waco and Ruby Ridge tho

    and here’s some rather surprising good news

    http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/fbi-agent-killed-lavoy-finicum-hires-dc-lawyer/

    Read More
  208. L.K says:
    @peterAUS

    ....I served for 3 years in my corner of the woods and even became… a squad leader!....
     
    O..................K............

    What do you think....what would be an effective range of AK-47 rifle?

    Say....what would be a distance from the enemy position a guy could get you from?
    One shooter only, with an AK-47 platform, iron sights, wooden stock, you are just standing up (day, of course, no wind)?
    He gets one round only, no corrections....

    What do you think?

    Typical trolling…. not willing to discuss the issues raised, you then try to make this about me.

    I cannot really say anything about the AK-47, since I never had the opportunity to fire one… maybe some day, if i get lucky… we used the FN FAL 7,62mm.

    Then again, it all depends on the operator and the level of training & practice.
    Depending on who’s behind the gun, results may vary dramatically.

    Anyways, is the Taliban not a militia? and a poorly funded & armed one at that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Discuss the issues raised by you, and with you.....?...!

    You don't understand why I asked that simple question.
    And your answer is........wrong.....on several levels.
  209. L.K

    YOU inspire me.

    One matter? It does matter “who’s behind the gun.”

    In fact, given a choice to fight against ZUSA, I’D be honored to go down with only an old Woolworth’s “Five & Dime” slingshot and wearing what apostle Paul called “The armor of God.”

    Thank you and Benedicte.Domine!

    Read More
  210. peterAUS says:
    @L.K
    Typical trolling.... not willing to discuss the issues raised, you then try to make this about me.

    I cannot really say anything about the AK-47, since I never had the opportunity to fire one... maybe some day, if i get lucky... we used the FN FAL 7,62mm.

    Then again, it all depends on the operator and the level of training & practice.
    Depending on who's behind the gun, results may vary dramatically.

    Anyways, is the Taliban not a militia? and a poorly funded & armed one at that?

    Discuss the issues raised by you, and with you…..?…!

    You don’t understand why I asked that simple question.
    And your answer is……..wrong…..on several levels.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    Yes , I understand why you asked that "question".. .

    It's called trolling...
  211. peterAUS says:
    @SteveRogers42
    The atrocities at Waco and Ruby Ridge were conducted by federal agencies (FBI and BATF) with full approval all the way up the chain of command. What their use-of-force continuum is, I do not know, but I DO know that if a municipal PD or county Sheriff's Dept. had shot an unarmed mother holding a baby or had rammed armored vehicles into a church full of children and set it on fire, all parties involved would have done lengthy prison terms. There is a significant double standard in the way that federal LEO's are allowed to conduct themselves, as opposed to local agencies, which are subjected to legal action and weeks of national scrutiny every time some career criminal gets his hair mussed while assaulting a local policeman. Jan ("The Man") Reno should be living out her days in her own personal episode of Orange is the New Black, but instead...nada.

    Under recent Democratic administrations, these federal agencies have been groomed as the prototypes for Obama's "civilian national security force...just as big and just as well funded as the military". Manufactured uproar over local police scandals plays right into the hands of those who would federalize U.S. law enforcement, because the DOJ consent decrees that are imposed in the wake of these events allow federal oversight and control to a degree that SHOULD be found to be un-Constitutional.

    This is the true nature of "militarizing" America's police -- the Controllers' dream of replacing local authority with an overarching federal behemoth that would conduct itself like the USSR's MVD. Then, episodes like Waco and Ruby Ridge would become the norm, instead of the shameful aberrations they are today.

    Well…..I am not quite sure I agree with you here.

    I guess that your point is that local police force is fundamentally different from federal security apparatus.

    I can’t say I buy that.

    My understanding is that the “Waco operation” (no need to get into proper names, acronyms etc. I hope) was a combined, integrated effort by all police/security forces in the area, from the local sheriff to FBI (and US military which is another, more serious, but conventionally overlooked matter).
    All elements had their assigned role and I am not aware of any breach of discipline, resignation during the operation let alone mutiny in ranks.
    Or, God forbids, actively helping Davidians.

    So, while it is correct that the brunt of “work” was done by FBI and “Delta Force”, all the rest played their roles well.

    We know that, actually, without local guys playing their roles quite well, all that wouldn’t have worked.
    Wider perimeter security, providing logistics, help with reconnaissance, help with
    gathering intelligence about the compound and people inside etc….all local guys work.

    My point is…they are all the same…cogs in the same machine, they just do different work.

    But, of course, it goes deeper.

    The roots are deep within US society.
    That’s why nobody cared then and nobody cares now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Actually, no. The local Texan Sheriff was negotiating in good faith and had established rapport based on trust and was in constant communication, but every time he was making good headway he was undermined by a Fed agency, such as when military vehicles smashed up the parked vehicles belonging to the Davidians. He is on the record about this and there are recordings of his conversation where Koresh complains about it. The Sheriff went on to state that he was appalled at what eventuated and felt betrayed by the Feds.
  212. Corvinus says:
    @Chris Mallory
    Making a report and issuing citations isn't much help. But doing the job you are paid to do doesn't make you a good person.

    “There are no good cops, no not one. All cops are trained liars. Never trust a word out of a cop’s mouth.”

    It is amazing that you are able to tell that lie with a straight face.

    Read More
  213. @peterAUS
    Agree.

    That's probably what got Trump into power.

    Which brings me to an issue that's been puzzling me since the election.

    Maybe you could add some input there.

    Say....this 'populist' thing in USA (Trump victory).

    'Progs/dems/left/people who voted for The Bitch/whatever' are quite quick, and even efficient, in pulling demonstrations/public display of numbers supporting their issues.

    So...the question is: why we do not see the same from the people who voted for Trump?

    Isn't that, actually, the most powerful weapon 'populist' leaders have?

    Say....100.000 people demonstrating to hasten the build of The Wall?
    Or....saying "enough" to active obstructions of Trump's jobs/immigration election promises?
    Or....this 'Russian hacking" BS?

    Ah...and while we are still on the topic of 'militarized police' and Waco, an addition why nobody cared/care:
    "People of faith"
    1. True believers: they weren't worshiping The True and Only God (mine/ours of course).
    2. Organized religion: as above, plus 'WE have to control the flock...not some chosen (by us, naturally) outsider.

    "Members of state tools"
    1. Police (from sheriff department to FBI): you do NOT shoot back........EVER. You submit to our demand or .....you get this. Remember that.
    2. Military
    a) top brass: well, Cold War is over...what now? Ah....internal dissent...and...hehe...civilians can't handle it. Beautiful.
    b) shooters: Cool. Let's put all that training into practice. Cool....
    And,never spoken, of course, but....how does it feel when you take life?

    Very simple : people who voted for DT are busy trying to make a dignified living, raise their kids and stay above water, they have no time for demonstrating and no inclination for destruction.

    Demonstrators/Democrats, activists etc are for the most part living off of the labors of the working stiffs, and they have time on their hands and hatred in their hearts.

    The Party of the Democrats has aways been the party of ignorant, uninformed small-minded, not all of them, fools, and the honchos, opportunists,”Politicians” who manage, in some sort of mysterious manner to become millionaires, through concocting unter-the-table deals while in office.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet, and pro jazz artist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well...I agree with you here, but.....just a gut feeling.

    In today's world of "managing perceptions", having well organized "public events" (let's not call it demonstrations..) could mean positive difference in this conflict (people vs "deep state"/US citizens vs Empire/NWO).

    Simply, I feel that one of very effective tools/weapons isn't being used, let alone properly utilized, by one side.
  214. L.K says:
    @peterAUS
    Discuss the issues raised by you, and with you.....?...!

    You don't understand why I asked that simple question.
    And your answer is........wrong.....on several levels.

    Yes , I understand why you asked that “question”.. .

    It’s called trolling…

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    L.K,

    Beyond participant troll commenters, I intuit that you will be the only person who answers the following question.

    Why do U.S. police forces turn to Israel for training instead of using the "homeland" F.B.I. resources?
  215. @L.K
    Yes , I understand why you asked that "question".. .

    It's called trolling...

    L.K,

    Beyond participant troll commenters, I intuit that you will be the only person who answers the following question.

    Why do U.S. police forces turn to Israel for training instead of using the “homeland” F.B.I. resources?

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Easy! Because they are ordered to from higher up. He who pays the piper calls the tune.
    , @L.K
    Hey Chuck , tks for your support!

    NoseytheDuke has nailed it.

    We both know just how powerful the Israel lobby/power configuration is, and just how corrupt the ZUSA's politicians and are.

    As Giraldi has shown, would you like your cops to get "training" from people who do things like the following?
    US Col Lang:

    In Beit Suhur outside Bethlehem, I have seen IDF troops shoot at Palestinian Christian women hanging out laundry in their gardens. This was done with tank coaxial machine guns from within a bermed up dirt fort a couple of hundred yards away, and evidently just for the fun of it. In Bethlehem a lieutenant told me that he would have had his men shoot me in the street during a demonstration that I happened to get caught in, but that he had not because he thought I might not be a Palestinian and that if I were not the incident would have caused him some trouble. I have seen a lot of things like that.
     
  216. peterAUS says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    Very simple : people who voted for DT are busy trying to make a dignified living, raise their kids and stay above water, they have no time for demonstrating and no inclination for destruction.

    Demonstrators/Democrats, activists etc are for the most part living off of the labors of the working stiffs, and they have time on their hands and hatred in their hearts.

    The Party of the Democrats has aways been the party of ignorant, uninformed small-minded, not all of them, fools, and the honchos, opportunists,"Politicians" who manage, in some sort of mysterious manner to become millionaires, through concocting unter-the-table deals while in office.

    Authenticjazzman "Mensa" society member since 1973, airborne qualified US Army Vet, and pro jazz artist.

    Well…I agree with you here, but…..just a gut feeling.

    In today’s world of “managing perceptions”, having well organized “public events” (let’s not call it demonstrations..) could mean positive difference in this conflict (people vs “deep state”/US citizens vs Empire/NWO).

    Simply, I feel that one of very effective tools/weapons isn’t being used, let alone properly utilized, by one side.

    Read More
  217. @Buzz Mohawk

    It is widely believed that arguing with cops or showing even the slightest attitude in contacts with them is done at one’s peril.
     
    This is nothing new.

    What is new in America is the collapse of civil behavior on the part of citizens, a lack of good manners in the general public, and an absence of respect for authority figures. These things naturally bring on police reactions.

    Any time humans have power over others, that power needs to be limited and counterbalanced. This is always an issue with police forces. Anybody who's lived a little has seen examples, going way back, of how hard it is to maintain this balance.

    Some people are just newly aware of this eternal issue now because cops have more toys and everything looks like it was built for Darth Vader.

    As for the non-sequitur in this case, Israel, it is a good place to learn how to keep unwanted people out of your country (clue: walls work) and how to profile those among whom criminals operate. It is where one can unlearn American political correctness with regard to law enforcement. The key again is balance -- between learning what is useful, and leaving out the abuses which, yes yes yes, we all know exist.

    Americans would have no problem with any of this if they would just go back and start using the Bill of Rights again. Re-learning good manners would help them grease the wheels with cops too.

    of course it couldn’t be the cops fault, they never do anything wrong, when was the last time a grand jury found one guilty?, wake up idiot a lot of times the person never gets the chance to kiss the cops ass before he’s turned into Swiss cheese

    Read More
  218. @SteveRogers42
    When you're running the numbers, don't forget that females with zero combat capability make up a sizeable percentage of both U.S. police and military. Also, the raw numbers for the armed forces don't reflect that the majority of uniformed "servicemembers" are noncombat support personnel, who have received rudimentary firearms training in Basic, but who simply work as uniformed boxpushers and bottle washers in order to get the proverbial "three hots and a cot".

    For a real treat, go to your local base someday and watch the unwed enlisted moms waddling around in their baggy BDUs. Intimidation Factor: Zero.

    SR42: I agree with your comments that a sizable number of service members are noncombat support personnel. And I think that “pregnant soldier” has to be a classic oxymoron. But still I feel strongly that the trained combat forces that we do have would overwhelmingly defeat any militia even comprising millions of civilians.. Who would lead this militia and what would be their tactics? I was living in Washington DC in 1972 when race riots threatened to shut down the city. President Nixon called in elements of the 82nd Airborne Division which rapidly entered DC and patrolled streets and bridges. Each paratrooper was fully armed and as I crossed the 14th Street bridge the sight of these troopers lining the bridge was sobering indeed. One did not need to have military experience to know this was a well-disciplined force led by competent officers and NCOs who would not tolerate nonsense by unruly rioters. The city was very quiet at that time, almost eerily so. Having stated the above, I sincerely believe that America will never come to such a desperate situation that our citizens will have to rise up against the government. It would be national suicide if it did.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Beautifully written. It could of course just have been said equally about the cakewalks of Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Apparently hubris never dies it just gains weight over time. Obesity would be the best description of American hubris at this point. What is it they say about people who don't learn from history? Help me here, I forget...
  219. @peterAUS
    Well.....I am not quite sure I agree with you here.

    I guess that your point is that local police force is fundamentally different from federal security apparatus.

    I can't say I buy that.

    My understanding is that the "Waco operation" (no need to get into proper names, acronyms etc. I hope) was a combined, integrated effort by all police/security forces in the area, from the local sheriff to FBI (and US military which is another, more serious, but conventionally overlooked matter).
    All elements had their assigned role and I am not aware of any breach of discipline, resignation during the operation let alone mutiny in ranks.
    Or, God forbids, actively helping Davidians.

    So, while it is correct that the brunt of "work" was done by FBI and "Delta Force", all the rest played their roles well.

    We know that, actually, without local guys playing their roles quite well, all that wouldn't have worked.
    Wider perimeter security, providing logistics, help with reconnaissance, help with
    gathering intelligence about the compound and people inside etc....all local guys work.

    My point is...they are all the same...cogs in the same machine, they just do different work.

    But, of course, it goes deeper.

    The roots are deep within US society.
    That's why nobody cared then and nobody cares now.

    Actually, no. The local Texan Sheriff was negotiating in good faith and had established rapport based on trust and was in constant communication, but every time he was making good headway he was undermined by a Fed agency, such as when military vehicles smashed up the parked vehicles belonging to the Davidians. He is on the record about this and there are recordings of his conversation where Koresh complains about it. The Sheriff went on to state that he was appalled at what eventuated and felt betrayed by the Feds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peterAUS
    Well...it was a highly professional and admirable act by one man, but, I really don't think that offsets thousands (yes...thousands) others just getting on with the program.

    When I say thousands I mean not only members of security apparatus but also their families, and equally important, citizenship in the region.

    The Waco example is just perfect for anyone wishing to understand how those things work in USA.

    Let's imagine this:
    A GROUP is holed up in a compound defying an inspection (say, "illegal arms" excuse) from the state.
    The state deploys police->a couple of shots at police cars, police retreat.
    The state raises stakes and deploys paramilitary police->heavier fire from the compound, light casualties taken on both sides, paramilitary police retreat and establish containment around the compound.
    Media rushes into the area.
    So far, almost as in Waco.
    Now, a bit of difference (some people will, likely, recognize where it could've been coming from). Citizenship in the area gets into streets and roads, starting protests, demonstrations. Local businesses close.
    Local police develop high number of sick leaves. A couple of cops threaten resignation.
    State raises the stakes->deploys military (special forces backed up by mechanized infantry and helicopter gunships) in the area; just staging and starts to develop picture and action plans.
    The citizenship overwhelmingly gets into roads, streets and around paramilitary/military staging areas. All local businesses and usual activities, except emergency services, close. Several local police force members resign, the rest (except a couple...) take sick leave (local doctors more than happy to cooperate).
    People from wider areas start busing into the area.
    Paramilitary police establish checkpoints blocking the area.
    All economic activity in the area stops, including traffic through.
    Arson, vandalism and a couple of armed robberies happen. A couple of homicides too.
    State declares "emergency law" in the region.
    Paramilitary police and federal state security apparatus step in to prevent breakup of law and order.

    Now, up to this is easy...and Waco could've been like that...or, perhaps it should've been like that.

    From then on the game can escalate into Hell.......or gets down to talk and into slow deescalation.
    Depends on a lot of variables and a bit of luck/fate as well.

    The pattern seen at the time in Waco was recognized, in certain circles, as:
    Wrong estimate by the state (underestimate the opponent/overestimate own).
    State overreaction after the initial failure. This is important.
    Total disregard for collateral damage when reasserting state authority.
    Meek reaction from local community and wider population.

    Waco most likely set the pattern for the future.
    , @Simply Simon
    I was living in Central Texas at the time and of course the Waco incursion was the main theme of Texas TV and newspapers. As events unfolded it was high melodrama which ended shockingly when the Koresh compound ended engulfed in flames. We all knew that men, women and children wee trapped inside with no evidence that any were escaping. There is no doubt in my mind that local law enforcement, i.e., the Sheriff's department and the Texas State police were told to back off and not interfere with the storm troopers of the Federal ATF. No use stating much more, the entire event has been recorded for history, and draw your own conclusions. Mine is that Janet Reno literally got away with murder.
  220. @ChuckOrloski
    L.K,

    Beyond participant troll commenters, I intuit that you will be the only person who answers the following question.

    Why do U.S. police forces turn to Israel for training instead of using the "homeland" F.B.I. resources?

    Easy! Because they are ordered to from higher up. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    NoseytheDuke,

    Thanks for making a comment!

    By chance, are you aware of Paul Williams book "Operation Gladio; Unholy Alliance" ?

    It was especially interesting for me when the author discussed Gladio fund raising in NYC including the sale of heroin to black jazz musicians.

    The Reagan era CIA must have gotten an exemption from having to comply with Nancy's "Just Say No to Drugs" program.

    Thanks for piping in on such hot topic.
  221. @Simply Simon
    SR42: I agree with your comments that a sizable number of service members are noncombat support personnel. And I think that "pregnant soldier" has to be a classic oxymoron. But still I feel strongly that the trained combat forces that we do have would overwhelmingly defeat any militia even comprising millions of civilians.. Who would lead this militia and what would be their tactics? I was living in Washington DC in 1972 when race riots threatened to shut down the city. President Nixon called in elements of the 82nd Airborne Division which rapidly entered DC and patrolled streets and bridges. Each paratrooper was fully armed and as I crossed the 14th Street bridge the sight of these troopers lining the bridge was sobering indeed. One did not need to have military experience to know this was a well-disciplined force led by competent officers and NCOs who would not tolerate nonsense by unruly rioters. The city was very quiet at that time, almost eerily so. Having stated the above, I sincerely believe that America will never come to such a desperate situation that our citizens will have to rise up against the government. It would be national suicide if it did.

    Beautifully written. It could of course just have been said equally about the cakewalks of Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Apparently hubris never dies it just gains weight over time. Obesity would be the best description of American hubris at this point. What is it they say about people who don’t learn from history? Help me here, I forget…

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  222. peterAUS says:
    @NoseytheDuke
    Actually, no. The local Texan Sheriff was negotiating in good faith and had established rapport based on trust and was in constant communication, but every time he was making good headway he was undermined by a Fed agency, such as when military vehicles smashed up the parked vehicles belonging to the Davidians. He is on the record about this and there are recordings of his conversation where Koresh complains about it. The Sheriff went on to state that he was appalled at what eventuated and felt betrayed by the Feds.

    Well…it was a highly professional and admirable act by one man, but, I really don’t think that offsets thousands (yes…thousands) others just getting on with the program.

    When I say thousands I mean not only members of security apparatus but also their families, and equally important, citizenship in the region.

    The Waco example is just perfect for anyone wishing to understand how those things work in USA.

    Let’s imagine this:
    A GROUP is holed up in a compound defying an inspection (say, “illegal arms” excuse) from the state.
    The state deploys police->a couple of shots at police cars, police retreat.
    The state raises stakes and deploys paramilitary police->heavier fire from the compound, light casualties taken on both sides, paramilitary police retreat and establish containment around the compound.
    Media rushes into the area.
    So far, almost as in Waco.
    Now, a bit of difference (some people will, likely, recognize where it could’ve been coming from). Citizenship in the area gets into streets and roads, starting protests, demonstrations. Local businesses close.
    Local police develop high number of sick leaves. A couple of cops threaten resignation.
    State raises the stakes->deploys military (special forces backed up by mechanized infantry and helicopter gunships) in the area; just staging and starts to develop picture and action plans.
    The citizenship overwhelmingly gets into roads, streets and around paramilitary/military staging areas. All local businesses and usual activities, except emergency services, close. Several local police force members resign, the rest (except a couple…) take sick leave (local doctors more than happy to cooperate).
    People from wider areas start busing into the area.
    Paramilitary police establish checkpoints blocking the area.
    All economic activity in the area stops, including traffic through.
    Arson, vandalism and a couple of armed robberies happen. A couple of homicides too.
    State declares “emergency law” in the region.
    Paramilitary police and federal state security apparatus step in to prevent breakup of law and order.

    Now, up to this is easy…and Waco could’ve been like that…or, perhaps it should’ve been like that.

    From then on the game can escalate into Hell…….or gets down to talk and into slow deescalation.
    Depends on a lot of variables and a bit of luck/fate as well.

    The pattern seen at the time in Waco was recognized, in certain circles, as:
    Wrong estimate by the state (underestimate the opponent/overestimate own).
    State overreaction after the initial failure. This is important.
    Total disregard for collateral damage when reasserting state authority.
    Meek reaction from local community and wider population.

    Waco most likely set the pattern for the future.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey PeterUS,

    Wasn't there a recent standoff in a national forest reserve compound that ended fairly well? By "well" I mean there wasn't a slaughter like Waco. I guess there was a different dynamic in that the place was not in a city setting.

    And I agree - the locals will likely want to negotiate or otherwise resolve things in an orderly manner in their community whereas the Feds are likely to use their fancy toys in trying to resolve the issue. I remember watching a documentary on Waco, some of the bodies showed use of white phosphorus, if I remember correctly.

    Peace.
    , @Miro23

    The citizenship overwhelmingly gets into roads, streets and around paramilitary/military staging areas. All local businesses and usual activities, except emergency services, close.
     
    This is extremely difficult for security forces to deal with. They are set up to target and arrest a dissident minority but not to carry out mass street killing. The risk from their point of view is to have security personnel swamped in the crowds and too scared/unwilling to shoot.

    Dictator Ceausescu had a finely tuned and famously brutal secret police (Securitate) who were turned powerless (not enough of them) by the massed street revolution of 1989 in the same way that scared military units were swamped by 100's thousands of angry citizens and melted away.

    I seems to be a question of momentum. If the numbers grow, the citizens win, but if it fades (i.e. the situation "stabilizes") they lose, and their leaders can be imprisoned and murdered.
  223. Talha says:
    @peterAUS
    Well...it was a highly professional and admirable act by one man, but, I really don't think that offsets thousands (yes...thousands) others just getting on with the program.

    When I say thousands I mean not only members of security apparatus but also their families, and equally important, citizenship in the region.

    The Waco example is just perfect for anyone wishing to understand how those things work in USA.

    Let's imagine this:
    A GROUP is holed up in a compound defying an inspection (say, "illegal arms" excuse) from the state.
    The state deploys police->a couple of shots at police cars, police retreat.
    The state raises stakes and deploys paramilitary police->heavier fire from the compound, light casualties taken on both sides, paramilitary police retreat and establish containment around the compound.
    Media rushes into the area.
    So far, almost as in Waco.
    Now, a bit of difference (some people will, likely, recognize where it could've been coming from). Citizenship in the area gets into streets and roads, starting protests, demonstrations. Local businesses close.
    Local police develop high number of sick leaves. A couple of cops threaten resignation.
    State raises the stakes->deploys military (special forces backed up by mechanized infantry and helicopter gunships) in the area; just staging and starts to develop picture and action plans.
    The citizenship overwhelmingly gets into roads, streets and around paramilitary/military staging areas. All local businesses and usual activities, except emergency services, close. Several local police force members resign, the rest (except a couple...) take sick leave (local doctors more than happy to cooperate).
    People from wider areas start busing into the area.
    Paramilitary police establish checkpoints blocking the area.
    All economic activity in the area stops, including traffic through.
    Arson, vandalism and a couple of armed robberies happen. A couple of homicides too.
    State declares "emergency law" in the region.
    Paramilitary police and federal state security apparatus step in to prevent breakup of law and order.

    Now, up to this is easy...and Waco could've been like that...or, perhaps it should've been like that.

    From then on the game can escalate into Hell.......or gets down to talk and into slow deescalation.
    Depends on a lot of variables and a bit of luck/fate as well.

    The pattern seen at the time in Waco was recognized, in certain circles, as:
    Wrong estimate by the state (underestimate the opponent/overestimate own).
    State overreaction after the initial failure. This is important.
    Total disregard for collateral damage when reasserting state authority.
    Meek reaction from local community and wider population.

    Waco most likely set the pattern for the future.

    Hey PeterUS,

    Wasn’t there a recent standoff in a national forest reserve compound that ended fairly well? By “well” I mean there