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Was it an "American coup?"
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For the first time a presidential candidate, admittedly from a fringe party, is calling for a reexamination of 9/11. Jill Stein of the Green Party has recognized that exercises in which the United States government examines its own behavior are certain to come up with a result that basically exonerates the politicians and the federal bureaucracy. This has been the case since the Warren Commission report on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, which, inter alia, failed to thoroughly investigate key players like Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby and came up with a single gunman scenario in spite of considerable evidence to the contrary.

When it comes to 9/11, I have been reluctant to enter the fray largely because I do not have the scientific and technical chops to seriously assess how buildings collapse or how a large passenger airliner might be completely consumed by a fire. In my own area, of expertise, which is intelligence, I have repeatedly noted that the Commission investigators failed to look into the potential foreign government involvement in the events that took place that day. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan just for starters may have been involved in or had knowledge relating to 9/11 but the only investigation that took place, insofar as I can determine, was a perfunctory look at the possible Saudi role, the notorious 28 pages, which have recently been released in a redacted form.

A friend recently recommended that I take a look at a film on 9/11 that was first produced back in 2005. It is called Loose Change 9/11 and is available on Amazon Video or in DVD form as well as elsewhere in a number of updated versions. The first version reportedly provides the most coherent account, though the later updates certainly are worth watching, add significantly to the narrative, and are currently more accessible.

Loose Change is an examination of the inconsistencies in the standard 9/11 narrative, a subject that has been thoroughly poked and prodded in a number of other documentaries and books, but it benefits from the immediacy of the account and the fresh memories of the participants in the events who were interviewed by the documentary’s director Dylan Avery starting in 2004. It also includes a bit of a history lesson for the average viewer, recalling Hitler’s Reichstag fire, Pearl Harbor and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, all of which were essentially fraudulent and led to the assumption of emergency powers by the respective heads of state.

The underlying premise of most 9/11 revisionism is that the United States government, or at least parts of it, is capable of almost anything. Loose Change describes how leading hawkish Republicans were, as early as 2000, pushing to increase U.S. military capabilities so that the country would be able to fight multi-front wars. The signatories of the neocon Project for the New American Century paper observed that was needed was a catalyst to produce a public demand to “do something,” that “something” being an event comparable to Pearl Harbor. Seventeen signatories of the document wound up in senior positions in the Bush Administration.

The new Pearl Harbor turned out to be 9/11. Given developments since 9/11 itself, to include the way the U.S. has persisted in going to war and the constant search for enemies worldwide to justify our own form of Deep State government, I would, to a large extent, have to believe that PNAC was either prescient or perhaps, more diabolically, actively engaged in creating a new reality.

That is not to suggest that either then or now most federal employees in the national security industry were part of some vast conspiracy but rather an indictment of the behavior and values of those at the top of the food chain, people who are characteristically singularly devoid of any ethical compass and base their decisions largely on personal and peer group ambition.

9/11 Truthers are characteristically very passionate about their beliefs, which is part of their problem in relating to a broader public. They frequently demand full adherence to their version of what passes for reality. In my own experience of more than twenty years on the intelligence side of government I have frequently found that truth is in fact elusive, often lying concealed in conflicting narratives. This is, I believe, the strength of Loose Change as it identifies and challenges inconsistencies in the established account without pontificating and, even though it has a definite point of view and draws conclusions, it avoids going over to the dark side and speculating on any number of the wilder “what-if” scenarios.

I recommend that readers watch Loose Change as it runs through discussions of U.S. military exercises and inexplicable stand-downs that occurred on 9/11, together with convincing accounts of engineering and technical issues related to how the World Trade Center and WTC7 collapsed. Particularly intriguing are the initial eyewitness accounts from the site of the alleged downing of UA 93 in Pennsylvania, a hole in the ground that otherwise showed absolutely no evidence of a plane having actually crashed. Nor have I ever seen any traces of a plane in photos taken at the Pentagon point of impact.

The film describes the subsequent investigative failures that took place, perhaps deliberately and arranged from inside the government, and concludes that the event amounts to an “American coup” which changed the United States both in terms of its domestic liberties and its foreign policy. After watching the film, one must accept that there are numerous inconsistencies that emerge from any examination of the standard narrative promoted by the 9/11 Commission and covered up by every White House since 2001. The film calls the existing corpus of government investigations into 9/11 a lie, a conclusion that I would certainly agree with.

The consequences of 9/11 are indeed more important than the event itself. Even those who have come to accept the established narrative would have to concede that “that day of infamy” changed America for the worse, as the film notes. While the United States government had previously engaged in illegal activity directed against for suspected spies, terrorists and a variety of international criminals, wholesale surveillance of what amounts to the entire population of the country was a new development brought in by the Patriot Acts. And, for the first time, secret prisons were set up overseas and citizens were arrested without being charged and held indefinitely. Under the authority of the Military Commissions Act tribunals were established to try those individuals who were suspected of being material supporters of terrorism, “material supporters” being loosely interpreted to make arrest, prosecution and imprisonment easier.

More recently, executive authority based on the anti-terror legislation has been used to execute American citizens overseas and, under the Authorization to Use Military Force, to attack suspects in a number of countries with which the United States is not at war. This all takes place with hardly a squeak from Congress or from the media. And when citizens object to any or all of the above they are blocked from taking action in the courts by the government’s invocation of State Secrets Privilege, claiming that judicial review would reveal national secrets. Many believe that the United States has now become a precursor police state, all as a result of 9/11 and the so-called War on Terror which developed from that event.

So who benefited from 9/11? Clearly the executive branch of the government itself, which has seen an enormous expansion in its power and control over both the economy and people’s lives, but there are also other entities like the military industrial complex, the Pentagon and intelligence agencies, and the financial services sector, all of which have gained considerably from the anti-terror largesse coming from the American taxpayer. Together these entities constitute an American Deep State, which controls both government and much of the private sector without ever being mentioned or seriously contested.

Suggesting government connivance in the events of 9/11 inevitably raises the question of who exactly might have ordered or carried out the attacks if they were in fact not fully and completely the work of a handful of Arab hijackers? The film suggests that one should perhaps consider the possibility of a sophisticated “false flag” operation, by which we mean that the apparent perpetrators of the act were not, in fact, the drivers or originators of what took place. Blowing up huge buildings and causing them to pancake from within, if indeed that is what took place, is the work of governments, not of a handful of terrorists. Only two governments would have had that capability, the United States itself and also Israel, unfortunately mentioned only once in passing in the film, a state player heavily engaged in attempting to bring America into its fight with the Arab world, with Benjamin Netanyahu subsequently saying that “We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq swung American public opinion in our favor.”

To be honest I would prefer not to think that 9/11 might have been an inside job, but I am now convinced that a new 9/11 Commission is in order, one that is not run and guided by the government itself. If it can be demonstrated that the attacks carried out on that day were quite possibly set up by major figures both inside and outside the political establishment it might produce such a powerful reaction that the public would demand a reversal of the laws and policies that have so gravely damaged our republic. It is admittedly unlikely that anything like that could ever take place, but it is at least something to hope for.

 
• Category: History • Tags: 9/11, Conspiracy Theories 
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  1. Allow me to preempt the 9-11 comment onslaught by diverting to an old topic just mentioned — JFK. Something new has arisen these past few years that our corporate media ignores. From my blog:

    Jul 10, 2016 – James Files Killed JFK?

    Youtube has amazing stuff, like James Files explaining how he killed JFK. This is a long interview but very detailed and believable. The first question that arises is why this guy finally talked. This is answered in this short video that you should watch first.

    James Files may be phony, but he is a former CIA/US Army Special Ops guy, a known gangster, and if he is a fraud, he is first rate actor with great knowledge about the underworld who spent years preparing for this interview. I’m not sure what to think about his story, but he is an interesting and likable guy!

    There are websites that attempt to dismiss Files, and even one dedicated to discrediting him: James Files Fraud. But one must ask who has the time and motivation to devote a website just to counter a youtube interview? Our CIA has thousands of people employed in counter-intelligence. They have the time, resources and media contacts to refute “conspiracy theorists” like 9-11 and JFK. This includes full time “floggers” commenting on websites and maintaining the “truth” at Wikipedia.

    The Files interview is very interesting and I highly recommend watching it all, before it disappears. I recall watching a youtube interview with his prison warden that has disappeared. The warden summoned Files to his office to find out why he refused to see prominent visitors. He became convinced of Files’ detailed account of shooting JFK, and was angered to learn that FBI agents had managed to interview Files in his prison without his knowledge.

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  2. Only by constantly repeating to all and sundry the blatant falsehoods, frauds and meddling that are evident which absolutely contradict the official narrative of what happened can a tipping point be reached and the demands for a new, open and independent investigation be the unavoidable topic in political and social life.

    Only after a new, open and independent investigation and a ruthless holding to account of those responsible has taken place can America go about its business of being great because it is good. Good luck with that.

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  3. MarkinLA says:

    Remember Korean Air flight 007. At that time the conspiracy theory was that the US and South Korean governments got the pilot to invade Soviet air space while the Space Shuttle was in the vicinity along with the electronic surveillance plane that crossed KAL007′s path in order to light up USSR air defenses and collect data.

    Whether it was true or not, the Reagan administration used it to vilify the USSR and push it’s hawkish agenda.

    9/11 doesn’t have to have been done by the government for Deep State entities to take advantage. Any preplanning of what to do afterward could also be explained by them knowing what was going to happen (ala Pearl Harbor) and letting it happen. There were plenty of intelligence reports in the commission proceedings that have indicated something was up but not acted upon. They didn’t have an admiral they could blame like they did at Pearl so the whole system was blamed which made expanding the security apparatus so much easier.

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  4. Wally says:

    a must see here:
    BEST 9/11 DOCUMENTARY EVER!

    The US government’s bizarre 9/11 conspiracy theory is simply impossible.

    - The US govt. cannot change laws of physics.

    - It’s an established scientific fact that military grade nano-thermite was used in the 9/11 attack.
    Military grade nano-thermite was found in the WTC debris by the US Geological Survey & Dr. Niels Harrit of Univ. of Copenhagen, and 8 more scientists.

    - ’9/11′ has been an immensely profitable scam for various players in the US and Israel.

    - ’9/11′ provides excuses for our disastrous & mass murdering foreign policy.

    - ’9/11′ provides excuses for the theft of our constitutional rights.

    - ’9/11′ provides excuses for the enormous increase of government power.

    -see real, unbiased science professionals opinions at:

    http://www.ae911truth.org

    see their videos
    see their petition signed by thousands of real science professionals

    What Science Says About the Destruction of World Trade Center Buildings 1, 2, and 7

    http://www.beyondmisinformation.org/#beyond-misinformation

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  5. Loose Change? You mean that 9/11 documentary that somehow manages to not notice all the Overseas Israelis involved at every stage of the 9/11 plot?

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  6. The 9/11 conspiracy in under 5 minutes:

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  7. How is the Israel-Palestine conflict related to 9/11?

    Seamlessly.

    Jeff Halper: “The Global Pacification Industry”

    “You have to look at the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as a laboratory . . . ”

    Gaza is to the pacification of resistance to the Anglo-zionist empire as Dugway was to the firebombing of Germany.

    @ 18 minutes: the global militarization, on the Israeli model, of (what used to be) local police forces, turning local police into agents of Global Pacification to facilitate and enforce the repression and exploitation of periphery states (RoW) by core capitalist states (US, EU, Israel) (discussed @ 9 min).

    @22 min: how 9/11 re-framed the political process of actions like militarizing police forces from decisions taken by local/municipal councils to security politics, which are secret and non-transparent.
    i.e.” the Canada-Israel Public Safety __??__, signed by internal ministers of Canada and Israel, went through no committees, no parliaments; nobody knows what it is exactly but it brings Israel . . . into running Canadian prisons. Who better at running a prison than Israel: Gaza is the largest prison in the world.”

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  8. There is no steel from the twin towers to examine. It was immediately shipped to China after the collapse.
    “Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since the collapse of steel-framed skyscrapers due to fires is completely unprecedented, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!”

    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

    The government blew up the buildings angle shouldn’t be pursued. Clearly the deep state and Israel benefited from 9/11.

    There are more documents out there to study if a leaker is inclined to release them to wikileaks: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/12/the-fbi-is-keeping-80-000-secret-files-on-the-saudis-and-9-11.html

    The members of the Deep state could have very well known about the hijackers and their plot. The CIA knew two hijackers were in the US and withheld the data from the FBI. The same thing could be said about the Boston bombing. The Russians warned us. Mossad was shadowing hijackers. It could very well be that the bombers got support in high places and allowed to conduct their operation. I don’t know. I know as much about the machinery of such things as I do about the physics of why the buildings collapsed.

    I think questioning 9/11 outside of documents like the 28 pages is a discrediting vocation for the one who does it. We have proof that the US backs Al Qaeda in the Middle East (Libya/Syria). We have proof that Saudis and Qataris finance it. We have proof that Israel provides Al Qaeda with healthcare. I don’t see why we need to have an evolution vs creationism debate on 9/11 when there is plenty of evidence that the threat was over-hyped and that there are Americans allied with the attackers now in very high places. I think people around Hillary are pragmatic and sociopathic like her. I think if 9/11 was an inside job it would have come from that cabal because they are Al Qaeda’s biggest supporters in Syria/Libya, believe might makes right, and are duplicitous enough to actually do this. Who is calling the shots? Obama and his generals don’t seem to be keen in helping Al Qaeda in Syria. Dempsey reportedly went behind his back to undermine the CIA and Al Qaeda in Syria. I have a hard time believing Obama is the orchestrator of all these machinations. There is ample proof that there are Americans at the very top and their underlings who have aided Al Qaeda and we are still at war with them. Perhaps we could talk a President Trump into it charging them with treason. They hate him. He hates them. The US needs a good political establishment enema. The thinktanks and institutions connected to foreign governments and the deep state should be cleansed of traitors.

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    • Replies: @woodNfish
    Trump has been saying he will drain the DC swamp.

    Sending the steel to China to get rid of the evidence is not unlike the government's bulldozing of the still smouldering remains of the Branch Davidian massacre in Waco Texas after torturing the members and their children 24 hours a day for 83 days.
    , @Carroll Price
    Or, the bulldozing of the Alfred Murray Building shortly after it was partially destroyed by demolition charges inside the building. Like the airliners on 9/11, Timothy McVeigh's truck bomb was a distraction to divert attention from what actually destroyed the building, and took the lives of numerous people inside.
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  9. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    This article follows the lines drawn by yesterday Unz’s.

    Revusky-like attitudes, although undeniably passion-fueled, lead to little.

    What people like you (and I have fallen for it too many times, too) fail to understand, Jonathan, is that your target is deeply consistently propagandized people who see their manipulators as absolutely trustworthy sources of information and you (plural) as an angry, petulant, outsider making strange claims.

    Now, strange brings to stranger, and the reason why the same word means both “suspicious” and “foreigner” is because, well, the two ideas come together.

    People will be suspicious of new views and ideas.
    You have to grasp what it is like not to grasp something.
    Ever read Bernays?

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    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    "Ever read Bernays?"

    Not yet - but I could name some people who most certainly have!
    , @Wade

    What people like you (and I have fallen for it too many times, too) fail to understand, Jonathan, is that your target is deeply consistently propagandized people who see their manipulators as absolutely trustworthy sources of information and you (plural) as an angry, petulant, outsider making strange claims.
     
    This is absolutely correct. I got this reaction from family members recently when I simply tried to explain Hillary Clinton's multiple crimes and potential treason as revealed by Judicial Watch and Wikileaks. For example, there is pretty solid evidence that the Clintons are laundering money given to the Clinton foundation through a pass-through shell corporation called WJC LLC. This turned up through some documents called "The Panama Papers."

    Although they don't support Hillary for president, some of my family members seem to think that if she's really this bad she wouldn't have gotten this far. I can't imagine trying to explain the case that 911 was an inside job to them.
    , @Johnny F. Ive
    I agree they are propagandized and they don't have a frame of reference to understand where we are coming from. Besides appealing to their prejudices I don't see how one could change their opinion besides providing them with documents made available to the public. I think the released DIA report on the West and the Gulf states supporting a Salafist Principality would be more easily to swallow than videos about 9/11 arguing that it was demolition. One thing the DIA report and Wikileaks material came from the beast itself.

    I don't think 9/11 was a coup. It was a new raison d'etre for our rulers. The coup happened a long time ago, during the cold war or before. The cold war ended and we had rogue states all over the place all of a sudden, and the US went to fight them to Pat Buchanan's dismay.
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  10. Realist says:

    “9/11 Truth?
    Was it an “American coup?””

    More than likely.

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  11. Brabantian says: • Website

    In the European press, Italy’s President Francesco Cossiga exposed that the NYC towers destruction of 11 September 2001 was done by the USA & Israel’s Mossad, and that all Europe’s governments know this

    Too few people know, that the New York Times itself, a few weeks before the NYC towers fell, photographed ‘Israeli art students’ (!) working in-between the walls of the those towers, amidst stacks of boxes with certain markings which … identify the box contents as components of bomb detonators
    World Trade Center’s Infamous 91st-Floor Israeli ‘Art Student’ Project

    Also, too few people know that Osama Bin Laden himself denied being involved in the 11 Sep. 2001 NYC towers destruction, & that the ‘Osama Bin Laden’ videos & tapes shown for several years afterwards, are clearly-proven fakes with actors

    The claimed discoverer of those ‘bin Laden’ videos & tapes – allegedly scouring the ‘Jihadi YouTubes’ for material no one else ‘finds’ – is Israeli-American Rita Katz of the laughable ‘SITE’ – ‘Search for International Terrorist Entities’

    Dissident US military-intel veterans tell us:

    « The truth about [Osama] Bin Laden, that his last known communication was December 3rd, 2001, received by the CIA / NSA intercept facility in Doha, in which he accused American Neocons of staging 9-11.

    « This was less than two weeks before his death, as reported in Egypt, Pakistan, India, Iran and even by Fox News, until Rita Katz brought him back to life in the guise of a Mercedes repair shop owner of Somali parentage living in Haifa, Israel.

    « The new short, fat Bin Laden, who lost his ability to speak Oxford English, continued to drop audio tapes in the dumpster behind Katz’s Brooklyn apartment for years, until his frozen corpse was dumped into the Indian Ocean. »

    - Gordon Duff, Veterans Today

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    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    More 9/11 truther kooker spew as Bin Laden conveyed (in his own words) motivation for 9/11 per following from the UK Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11
    , @Anonymous
    Great information for the Bin Laden videos stuff. Thanks.
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  12. If I recall correctly, it was Thierry Meyssan who in 2002 in his book La terrible imposture first suggested that 9/11 was a coup. John Kerry’s brother-in-law Sarkozy later forced Meyssan into exile, because he was becoming a nuisance to the US and their French puppets.

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  13. 9/11 was a false flag attack. That’s the obvious truth about 9/11. If we knew the details what difference would it make? If you must know the whole story ask Dick Cheney. Or if you prefer the official lie that’s ok with me. It’s just another argument about history.

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  14. Miro23 says:

    “…but I am now convinced that a new 9/11 Commission is in order, one that is not run and guided by the government itself.”

    I would go further and say that a new investigation would need the power to arrest and question everyone involved under existing Homeland Security/Patriot Act anti-terror laws with no exceptions (FBI & CIA operatives included) and with the media legally bound to silence until the investigation is complete.

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    • Replies: @Erebus
    Well, the cat's out amongst the pigeons again.

    The world labours under so many false narratives that no thoughtful person wonders why it slouches towards doom in a fog of video games, consumerism and porn. 9/11 is but one in a long, long list.

    ... a new investigation would need the power to arrest and question everyone involved under existing Homeland Security/Patriot Act anti-terror laws with no exceptions (FBI & CIA operatives included) and with the media legally bound to silence until the investigation is complete.
     
    The world needs more, much more than that. It needs a Truth Commission presided over by extraterrestrials. Otherwise, it'll only happen when the high & mighty can no longer be hurt by whatever comes out. There's probably a revolution or two between now and then.
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  15. peacenik says:

    Phillip,

    If you really want to get a handle on what occurred on sept 11, 2001, check out Christopher Bollyn’s research. I think he is onto something . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyLyGXQUIo0

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Bravo for mentioning Bollyn!
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  16. 2Frothy4 says:

    Will only say ONE thing regarding 9/11………..
    The shock wave from the Pentagon hit almost knocked me out of my chair
    from 1/2 mile away….I thought a bus had hit my office trailer….when I stepped outside
    to investigate,I saw a huge,black plane coming across the Potomac…..
    Later,on the news,I saw an interview with a black kid who saw the same thing….
    I’ve never seen that interview again…….
    No one can tell me that it WASN’T a MISSILE that hit….

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    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    "I saw a huge,black plane coming across the Potomac..."

    Sounds like a Stealth Bomber...
    , @dahoit
    DC is the lowest profile city in America,where the highest point is the Wash, monument.
    Why are there absolutely no photos from the many tourists out that beautiful day to confirm a jet?
    Digital cameras were commonplace at the time,as well as traditional cameras.
    Scam.
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  17. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    There are so many lies and distortions in the official government 9/11 report that it has to be dismissed.

    The 9/11 commission head, Phillip Zeiikow, a good friend of Condi Rice, had the final report’s outlines and chapters created BEFORE the commission even met.

    No one talks about WTC 6, that blew up the afternoon of 9/11, even though it was not on fire and had not been hit be a jet. One can find pics online of the shell of that building, with debris scattered in all directions. To imply that a few steel beams from one of the Twins did that kind of damage is misleading.

    Also, WTC 4 had a gold and silver bullion depository in the basement that someone went into the night BEFORE 9/11 and stole hundreds of millions of dollars of gold and silver. You never hear about that in the MSM.

    When you see the US descending into a ever tightening police state and ME wars being waged that only benefit Israel and those TBTF Wall Street casinos, one has to realize that our own government, with help, attacked Americans on 9/11.

    9/11 was an Israeli masterminded FALSE FLAG, aided by American traitors in the WH, the Pentagon, the CIA, FBI and NSA.

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it

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  18. “I am now convinced that a new 9/11 Commission is in order, one that is not run and guided by the government itself. If it can be demonstrated that the attacks carried out on that day were quite possibly set up by major figures both inside and outside the political establishment it might produce such a powerful reaction that the public would demand a reversal of the laws and policies that have so gravely damaged our republic. “

    One problem is that Truthers, even if they are ultimately proven right about a conspiracy, will never be anything more than keyboard kommandos. There have to be at least a million of them, and if they put their money where their mouths and fingers are, they would mass on the National Mall and bring about regime change of some sort.

    But it’s cold/hot/rainy/sunny in DC, so that would be too much discomfort for them, and so we labour on in our newfound gulag.

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    • Replies: @Bill
    The March for Life brings about a half million each year. What's the exact number they need to get to for regime change to materialize?
    , @edNels
    Oh BS!

    they would mass on the National Mall and bring about regime change of some sort.
     
    Just remember back to the ''Bonus Army'' the ww1 vets who amassed in DC to demand the bonus they were promised. Only to be fired on by McArthurs troops, some killed and run off.

    Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were.

    All communications would be stopped there in the location, News would be blacked out, and some sort of cover story would be fabricated. The million plus would be history… they'd pulverize em and flush em down a sewer. Then they might put in a call to Zellicow for a committee to tune up some myths.
    , @Carroll Price
    I disagree. The keyboard Kommandos you so lightly dismiss are to be credited with raising enough questions about 9/11, to cause busy people like Phillip Giraldi to finally begin asking question about an event that many of us, long ago recognized as a classic false-flag attack.
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  19. Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    For actual 9/11 truth about how fire brought down Building 7 as well see the links at following URL:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2011/07/14/alan-sabrosky-911-interview-with-press-tv-host-susan-modaress/
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  20. Tom Welsh says:

    “So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!”

    I think we can all imagine what Lt. Columbo would make of an attempt to cremate the body immediately after a suspicious death!

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    • Replies: @dahoit
    And the MSM total ignoring of the alleged attackers motivations,or family interviews or any real concern about the behind the scenes machinations of various Saudi and Israelis leaves no doubt of a coverup.
    Letting the shrub stand on the wreckage of his own failures,and proclaiming him a hero,and the demonization of Saddam Hussein,the mortal enemy of the jihadists,and the enemy of zion,is another revelation ignored by so many morons,or fifth columnist traitors.
    And the Israelis told to stay home that day,another narrative hidden,and a smoking gun for any rational human.
    Serial liars lie serially,and they hate DT.WTF does anyone need?
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  21. Tom Welsh says:
    @2Frothy4
    Will only say ONE thing regarding 9/11...........
    The shock wave from the Pentagon hit almost knocked me out of my chair
    from 1/2 mile away....I thought a bus had hit my office trailer....when I stepped outside
    to investigate,I saw a huge,black plane coming across the Potomac.....
    Later,on the news,I saw an interview with a black kid who saw the same thing....
    I've never seen that interview again.......
    No one can tell me that it WASN'T a MISSILE that hit....

    “I saw a huge,black plane coming across the Potomac…”

    Sounds like a Stealth Bomber…

    Read More
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  22. Tom Welsh says:
    @Anonymous
    This article follows the lines drawn by yesterday Unz's.

    Revusky-like attitudes, although undeniably passion-fueled, lead to little.

    What people like you (and I have fallen for it too many times, too) fail to understand, Jonathan, is that your target is deeply consistently propagandized people who see their manipulators as absolutely trustworthy sources of information and you (plural) as an angry, petulant, outsider making strange claims.

    Now, strange brings to stranger, and the reason why the same word means both "suspicious" and "foreigner" is because, well, the two ideas come together.

    People will be suspicious of new views and ideas.
    You have to grasp what it is like not to grasp something.
    Ever read Bernays?

    “Ever read Bernays?”

    Not yet – but I could name some people who most certainly have!

    Read More
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  23. Erebus says:
    @Miro23

    "...but I am now convinced that a new 9/11 Commission is in order, one that is not run and guided by the government itself."
     
    I would go further and say that a new investigation would need the power to arrest and question everyone involved under existing Homeland Security/Patriot Act anti-terror laws with no exceptions (FBI & CIA operatives included) and with the media legally bound to silence until the investigation is complete.

    Well, the cat’s out amongst the pigeons again.

    The world labours under so many false narratives that no thoughtful person wonders why it slouches towards doom in a fog of video games, consumerism and porn. 9/11 is but one in a long, long list.

    … a new investigation would need the power to arrest and question everyone involved under existing Homeland Security/Patriot Act anti-terror laws with no exceptions (FBI & CIA operatives included) and with the media legally bound to silence until the investigation is complete.

    The world needs more, much more than that. It needs a Truth Commission presided over by extraterrestrials. Otherwise, it’ll only happen when the high & mighty can no longer be hurt by whatever comes out. There’s probably a revolution or two between now and then.

    Read More
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  24. @AmericaFirstNow
    9/11 Motive & Media Betrayal:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ncn5Q16N4&list=PL3C32560738EF3C30&feature=plpp

    For actual 9/11 truth about how fire brought down Building 7 as well see the links at following URL:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2011/07/14/alan-sabrosky-911-interview-with-press-tv-host-susan-modaress/

    Read More
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  25. Uncritically examining the first 20 odd comments I now realize how inevitable the collapse of the Twin Towers was. Many different groups, with many different agendas, using many different demolition techniques, were all working independently on 11 September 2001 to bring down the Towers. The only thing these groups appear to have in common is the broad conspiracy within the US government to protect them all from discovery.

    Read More
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  26. Phil

    9/11 was not an inside job 9/11 truther science is “scientific” sewage….it’s that bad.

    9/11 Trutherism is a political cult that promotes political defeatism for it promotes the very dangerous idea of a super-intelligent deep state with the mastermind Bush Family at the helm….you know the Bush Family….the Bush Family whose favorite reading material is “250 Fart Jokes”…

    Jill Stien is an enthusiast for importing millions of young Male Muslim Gang Rapist….this is the reason for Jill Stien’s embracing of 9/11 Trutherism.

    9/11 was a direct consequence of US policy in the Middle East interacting with the treasonous consequences of the passage of The 1965 Immigration Reform Act and the racial civic sloth of millions of Native Born White Americans who should not have been shocked that 9/11 OCCURED who were more interested in NFL Opiate Entertainment….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    How funny - even the Chief Rabbi of England admitted recently admitted that CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE has become part of Jewish culture .......

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/11/25/uk-chief-rabbi-admits-epidemic-child-sexual-abuse/
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  27. Rehmat says:

    Dr. Giraldi is missing the point. While Washington and Zionist-controlled mainstream media had blamed the Taliban, Pakistan, Iran, and lately Saudi Arabia – they never mentioned the 800-pound Gorilla – the Zionist regime.

    The most vilified person had been head of Pakistan’s intelligence chief, Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul, who pointed his finger to Israel Mossad two weeks after the 9/11 – even before media ridiculously blamed Osama Bin Laden in order to invade and occupy Afghanistan – a country which did not had a single tank, helicopter, fighter jet or even a commercial plane to defend itself from the so-called ONLY WORLD POWER.

    Hamid Gul’s claim on September 26, 2001, is now supported by thousands of scientists, scholars, politicians, architects and even a Jewish member of the so-called 9/11 COMISSION, Philip Zelikow (Zionist Jew) admitted in 2004 that America invaded Iraq in 2003 because Saddam Hussein became an existential threat to the Zionist entity.

    In December 2001, US historian Michael Collins Piper claimed that the so-called “19 Arab hijackers” could have been Israeli agents.

    On September 10, 2016, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts posted an article, entitled, 9/11: 15 years of a transparent lie.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/08/17/gen-hamid-gul-the-muslim-soparno-dies/

    Read More
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  28. Rehmat says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Phil


    9/11 was not an inside job 9/11 truther science is "scientific" sewage....it's that bad.


    9/11 Trutherism is a political cult that promotes political defeatism for it promotes the very dangerous idea of a super-intelligent deep state with the mastermind Bush Family at the helm....you know the Bush Family....the Bush Family whose favorite reading material is "250 Fart Jokes"...



    Jill Stien is an enthusiast for importing millions of young Male Muslim Gang Rapist....this is the reason for Jill Stien's embracing of 9/11 Trutherism.




    9/11 was a direct consequence of US policy in the Middle East interacting with the treasonous consequences of the passage of The 1965 Immigration Reform Act and the racial civic sloth of millions of Native Born White Americans who should not have been shocked that 9/11 OCCURED who were more interested in NFL Opiate Entertainment....

    How funny – even the Chief Rabbi of England admitted recently admitted that CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE has become part of Jewish culture …….

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/11/25/uk-chief-rabbi-admits-epidemic-child-sexual-abuse/

    Read More
    • Replies: @mcohen
    i love a good 911 conspiracy theory argument on the net.better than faulty towers for laughs.america the exceptional cannot grasp that its enemies would .....dare i say it......fight back.
    the russians control the no fly zone in syria.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    What group of disgusting perverts wss on the Rehmat team when that nasty irrelevance was emitted?
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  29. TJM says:

    Go back to the Oklahoma Federal building bombing and you will note the same MO…

    Read More
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  30. 9/11 truthers couldn’t even get it right on the physics-engineering behind the collapse of the Twin Towers. If they can’t get this right…everything else that comes after-ignore.

    But I’ll mention one thing that comes after the worthless 9/11 Truther sewage about the collapse TT. The Pentagon’s Bio-indentifivation scientific team as able to identified through DNA testing the remains of people who died on the jet that slammed into the Pentagon.The 9/11 Truthers shriek:”THEY ARE ARE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY ALSO”….the same group of men women who identify they remains of US soldiers who died in Vietnam via DNA testing….They must be lying about this also.

    Take your pick:9/11 Truthers are 1)psychotic delusions….or 2)repellant sociopaths with a very nasty political agenda…..these are the only two options.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Troofers, like JFK conspiracy theorists, are small-minded people who believe that history has to unfold in a "logical" fashion, or something must be very wrong: a loser like Oswald can't assassinate the leader of the free world, "Arabs with boxcutters" can't be responsible for 9/11, etc. hence "weight" has to be added to the perpetrators: they were patsies of a larger satanic plot of the CIA, the Vatican, etc.
    , @Alfred1860
    Nobody on this board knows exactly how the THREE towers came down, who did it, or the motivation behind it. A Boeing 757 with a 124' wingspan certainly did not hit the Pentagon, nor did one crash in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania - this is blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes.

    Anyone who actually believes the official story is a fool of epic proportions, or most likely, deluded. Quoting the Pentagon as a credible source is especially hilarious.
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    Project much?
    , @survey-of-disinfo

    9/11 truthers couldn’t even get it right on the physics-engineering behind the collapse of the Twin Towers. If they can’t get this right…everything else that comes after-ignore.
     
    NIST can't get it right either. ("google" it ..)

    Dude or dudet as it may be, whoever you are, you are as transparent as the lying scum that perpetrated and cover up this event.



    Take your pick:9/11 Truthers are 1)psychotic delusions….or 2)repellant sociopaths with a very nasty political agenda…..these are the only two options.
     
    Option 3. You are a low life paid shill of our oppressors.
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  31. Unbelievable. So now Philip Giraldi has been converted into a 9/11-Doucher after watching Loose Change, of all things?

    Some spook you turned out to be. The presence of such weak-minded fools in our intelligence apparatus is more explanatory than any “conspiracy theory” regarding the inexplicable events and stand-downs of 9/11.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Actually, the existence of weak-minded fools like yourself is the reason States, always comprising a small minority, are able to wield over much larger numbers of people (sheeple really).
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  32. @Brabantian
    In the European press, Italy's President Francesco Cossiga exposed that the NYC towers destruction of 11 September 2001 was done by the USA & Israel's Mossad, and that all Europe's governments know this

    Too few people know, that the New York Times itself, a few weeks before the NYC towers fell, photographed 'Israeli art students' (!) working in-between the walls of the those towers, amidst stacks of boxes with certain markings which ... identify the box contents as components of bomb detonators
    World Trade Center’s Infamous 91st-Floor Israeli ‘Art Student’ Project

    Also, too few people know that Osama Bin Laden himself denied being involved in the 11 Sep. 2001 NYC towers destruction, & that the 'Osama Bin Laden' videos & tapes shown for several years afterwards, are clearly-proven fakes with actors

    The claimed discoverer of those 'bin Laden' videos & tapes - allegedly scouring the 'Jihadi YouTubes' for material no one else 'finds' - is Israeli-American Rita Katz of the laughable 'SITE' - 'Search for International Terrorist Entities'

    Dissident US military-intel veterans tell us:

    « The truth about [Osama] Bin Laden, that his last known communication was December 3rd, 2001, received by the CIA / NSA intercept facility in Doha, in which he accused American Neocons of staging 9-11.

    « This was less than two weeks before his death, as reported in Egypt, Pakistan, India, Iran and even by Fox News, until Rita Katz brought him back to life in the guise of a Mercedes repair shop owner of Somali parentage living in Haifa, Israel.

    « The new short, fat Bin Laden, who lost his ability to speak Oxford English, continued to drop audio tapes in the dumpster behind Katz’s Brooklyn apartment for years, until his frozen corpse was dumped into the Indian Ocean. »

    - Gordon Duff, Veterans Today

    More 9/11 truther kooker spew as Bin Laden conveyed (in his own words) motivation for 9/11 per following from the UK Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    See the captions in following Youtube for more on motive for the 9/11 hijackers as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ncn5Q16N4&list=PL3C32560738EF3C30&feature=plpp
    , @Kyle
    Bin Laden was living on a kidney dialisis machine before 9-11. You don't miraculously recover from kidney failure.
    Bin Laden initially denies everything, like any suspect would, September 17th 2001.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html?iref=storys
    Then AL Jazeera reports bin Ladens death in December 2001.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2001/12/26/report-bin-laden-already-dead.html
    Then a whole bunch of videos featuring someone that doesn't really look like bin laden, claiming to be bin laden, appear on line over the years claiming responsibility for 9-11 and egging America on into conflict with the Muslim world.
    We invade and occupy Afghanistan , then iraq. 9-11 conspiracy wing nuts claim that the Pakistan intelligence agency is harboring bin laden, but we never invade pakistan.
    Then in 2012 our intelligence finds out that pakistan had been harboring bin laden. We send in seal team six. They break into his compound, kick in his bedroom door and light him up in a blaze of glory. They extract the body, bring it too the helicopter, and then on the helicopter ride back they dump the body into the ocean.
    Case closed, nothing to see here, carry on.
    Yes loose change is complete trash. The building demolition angle is complete trash. It is feasible that a plane crash plus fire could weaken the structure and lead to collapse. It is unprecedented on the history of modern architectite, but it is feasible, so the demolition angle is trash.
    The real question of 9-11 is who knew what, and when did they know it.
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  33. anonymou says:

    9-11 was the spark for the greatest power and money grab in history. Trillions were diverted from the public treasury and into various bank accounts as part of this alleged ‘war on terror’ as well as having citizen’s rights curtailed as internal security agencies increased their power and scope. Homeland Security was already in a drawer waiting to be pulled out. Of course there’s something ‘inside’ about the whole thing; even members of the 9-11 commission have repudiated their own report. It fits right into the pattern of having events trigger an aggressive expansion of American power: the Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, 9-11. See the pattern? These events are needed to bring an otherwise reluctant public along with the program.
    Just using one’s reasoning it’s clear that it’s impossible for someone who has taken some limited number of lessons flying small propeller planes, the kind that fly around the lakefront with advertising banners, to then get into the cockpit of a large jumbo-jet and fly around as they did and eventually hit their targets, especially hitting the Pentagon at ground level as officially claimed. Hijacker pilots would need planes to train on, trainers, training manuals in Arabic since their English was poor, access to airfields and a security system to assure discretion. Only a state has the resources to provide that.
    The government could never allow the truth to come out as that would undermine it’s legitimacy. Too many people have profited, there’s too much at stake for this to happen. They’ll throw whatever resources they need to undermine any real look into this. After all, it’s all just someone else’s money garnered through taxes so of course they can be generous with it if need be. The public is paying for it’s own jailers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 Truthers screen out expert opinion from intellectually honest experts. And anyone who challenges the 9/11 Truther "scientific" expertise is either stupid....or part of the 9/11 Conspiracy....9/11 Truthers are absolutely "brilliant" debaters!!!.


    9/11 was completely avoidable:1965 -2016 a National Origins Immigration Policy that completey excluded all Muslims forever. But these raises the very interesting question of why Muslims are being imported into the US in the first place. Answer:51 years of importing Hillary Clinton's Voting Bloc(Khirzir Khan's People)...And this is gar worse than 9/11 and the Fort Hood Massacre by many many orders of magnitude.
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  34. Bill says:
    @The Alarmist

    "I am now convinced that a new 9/11 Commission is in order, one that is not run and guided by the government itself. If it can be demonstrated that the attacks carried out on that day were quite possibly set up by major figures both inside and outside the political establishment it might produce such a powerful reaction that the public would demand a reversal of the laws and policies that have so gravely damaged our republic. "
     
    One problem is that Truthers, even if they are ultimately proven right about a conspiracy, will never be anything more than keyboard kommandos. There have to be at least a million of them, and if they put their money where their mouths and fingers are, they would mass on the National Mall and bring about regime change of some sort.

    But it's cold/hot/rainy/sunny in DC, so that would be too much discomfort for them, and so we labour on in our newfound gulag.

    The March for Life brings about a half million each year. What’s the exact number they need to get to for regime change to materialize?

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    A million might do it, but not as a day trip. They'd need to camp out like OWS or the old WW I bonus army. Getting tear gassed and tased wouldn't be fun, but it might get some media attention.

    Oh, I forgot who's running the media these days. Probably would get less coverage than the North Dakota pipeline protests.
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  35. @AmericaFirstNow
    More 9/11 truther kooker spew as Bin Laden conveyed (in his own words) motivation for 9/11 per following from the UK Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11

    See the captions in following Youtube for more on motive for the 9/11 hijackers as well:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ncn5Q16N4&list=PL3C32560738EF3C30&feature=plpp

    Read More
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  36. @anonymou
    9-11 was the spark for the greatest power and money grab in history. Trillions were diverted from the public treasury and into various bank accounts as part of this alleged 'war on terror' as well as having citizen's rights curtailed as internal security agencies increased their power and scope. Homeland Security was already in a drawer waiting to be pulled out. Of course there's something 'inside' about the whole thing; even members of the 9-11 commission have repudiated their own report. It fits right into the pattern of having events trigger an aggressive expansion of American power: the Maine, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin, 9-11. See the pattern? These events are needed to bring an otherwise reluctant public along with the program.
    Just using one's reasoning it's clear that it's impossible for someone who has taken some limited number of lessons flying small propeller planes, the kind that fly around the lakefront with advertising banners, to then get into the cockpit of a large jumbo-jet and fly around as they did and eventually hit their targets, especially hitting the Pentagon at ground level as officially claimed. Hijacker pilots would need planes to train on, trainers, training manuals in Arabic since their English was poor, access to airfields and a security system to assure discretion. Only a state has the resources to provide that.
    The government could never allow the truth to come out as that would undermine it's legitimacy. Too many people have profited, there's too much at stake for this to happen. They'll throw whatever resources they need to undermine any real look into this. After all, it's all just someone else's money garnered through taxes so of course they can be generous with it if need be. The public is paying for it's own jailers.

    9/11 Truthers screen out expert opinion from intellectually honest experts. And anyone who challenges the 9/11 Truther “scientific” expertise is either stupid….or part of the 9/11 Conspiracy….9/11 Truthers are absolutely “brilliant” debaters!!!.

    9/11 was completely avoidable:1965 -2016 a National Origins Immigration Policy that completey excluded all Muslims forever. But these raises the very interesting question of why Muslims are being imported into the US in the first place. Answer:51 years of importing Hillary Clinton’s Voting Bloc(Khirzir Khan’s People)…And this is gar worse than 9/11 and the Fort Hood Massacre by many many orders of magnitude.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    What Motivated the 9/11 Hijackers? See testimony most didn't!:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=PlayList&p=F81BB573C9C0C7B2&index=0&playnext=1
    , @Stonehands

    9/11 Truthers screen out expert opinion from intellectually honest experts.
     
    Tell me why all the evidence was immediately shipped to China to be "recycled"?
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  37. Marcus says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 truthers couldn't even get it right on the physics-engineering behind the collapse of the Twin Towers. If they can't get this right...everything else that comes after-ignore.


    But I'll mention one thing that comes after the worthless 9/11 Truther sewage about the collapse TT. The Pentagon's Bio-indentifivation scientific team as able to identified through DNA testing the remains of people who died on the jet that slammed into the Pentagon.The 9/11 Truthers shriek:"THEY ARE ARE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY ALSO"....the same group of men women who identify they remains of US soldiers who died in Vietnam via DNA testing....They must be lying about this also.



    Take your pick:9/11 Truthers are 1)psychotic delusions....or 2)repellant sociopaths with a very nasty political agenda.....these are the only two options.

    Troofers, like JFK conspiracy theorists, are small-minded people who believe that history has to unfold in a “logical” fashion, or something must be very wrong: a loser like Oswald can’t assassinate the leader of the free world, “Arabs with boxcutters” can’t be responsible for 9/11, etc. hence “weight” has to be added to the perpetrators: they were patsies of a larger satanic plot of the CIA, the Vatican, etc.

    Read More
    • Agree: John Jeremiah Smith
    • Replies: @dahoit
    I find you zionists the smallest minded idiots in the history of the world,but you clowns think you are gods.
    Whom the gods destroy,they first make mad.
    Pride goeth before the fall.
    Two very relevant homilies?
    Trump will reveal the truth,hence the zionist hatred.What else would drive their hydrophobia?
    , @War for Blair Mountain
    Although it would be overkill....and very cruel....the JFK assassination Conspiracy Theorists should have been forced to give their physics calculation which shows that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't have shot JFK in fr0nt of the tenured Cal Tech Physics Department.



    I have violent hatred of the scummy Kennedy Family. The Kennedy Cockroach Clan murdered the Historic Native Born White American Majority Working Class.
    , @peacenik
    First, check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9u1xGeitPk

    Now, I put it to you that the only "small-minded" people and cowards are those who still insist they see an apple when it is clearing an orange that is in front of their eyes!
    , @restless94110
    Marcus wants to call someone who doubts the official conspiracy theories because of hard core eveidence and calls them Troofers.

    I think we need to call Marcus a Stupider.

    Hey, Stupider, the official idiocy of JFK and 9-11 doesn't hold together, scientifically and with the evidence. The US Congress ruled that JFK was a group job in 1977.

    You think that someone would be stupid enough to doubt something just because they can not believe there could be a lone assassin? No, Stupider, we all (a majority of the American people) doubt it, because it is impossible to have happened.

    Stupider? Are you mentally ill? Or just mentally retarded? You can't understand physics. And certainly have no knowledge of logic and rules of evidence.

    So many Stupiders out there.
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  38. dearieme says:

    “Hitler’s Reichstag fire … [was] essentially fraudulent”: some historians disagree. They think it probably was the work of the mad Dutch communist, and took the Nazis by surprise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    You get it wrong with the '...'.

    Whilst there is some reason for doubt on the Reichstag fire, the cases for Pearl Harbour and the 'Tonkin Gulf incident' are well established.

    Although the latter two are not at all parallel, at Pearl Harbour, many were sacrificed to drag the U.S.A. into the war, the Tonkin Gulf incident shades into the land of pure propaganda.

    , @Carroll Price
    I know of no evidence ever presented by anyone that shows the Reichstag fire being caused by anything other than what the Nazis stated. Which was that the fire was set by a retarded Communist Jew.
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  39. Wade says:
    @Anonymous
    This article follows the lines drawn by yesterday Unz's.

    Revusky-like attitudes, although undeniably passion-fueled, lead to little.

    What people like you (and I have fallen for it too many times, too) fail to understand, Jonathan, is that your target is deeply consistently propagandized people who see their manipulators as absolutely trustworthy sources of information and you (plural) as an angry, petulant, outsider making strange claims.

    Now, strange brings to stranger, and the reason why the same word means both "suspicious" and "foreigner" is because, well, the two ideas come together.

    People will be suspicious of new views and ideas.
    You have to grasp what it is like not to grasp something.
    Ever read Bernays?

    What people like you (and I have fallen for it too many times, too) fail to understand, Jonathan, is that your target is deeply consistently propagandized people who see their manipulators as absolutely trustworthy sources of information and you (plural) as an angry, petulant, outsider making strange claims.

    This is absolutely correct. I got this reaction from family members recently when I simply tried to explain Hillary Clinton’s multiple crimes and potential treason as revealed by Judicial Watch and Wikileaks. For example, there is pretty solid evidence that the Clintons are laundering money given to the Clinton foundation through a pass-through shell corporation called WJC LLC. This turned up through some documents called “The Panama Papers.”

    Although they don’t support Hillary for president, some of my family members seem to think that if she’s really this bad she wouldn’t have gotten this far. I can’t imagine trying to explain the case that 911 was an inside job to them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    "Although they don’t support Hillary for president, some of my family members seem to think that if she’s really this bad she wouldn’t have gotten this far".

    Now that really is bitterly ironic. If she WASN'T that bad she wouldn't have gotten this far. The presidency is a prize that appeals only to the power-hungry and psychotic. The election process could hardly have been better designed to weed out the honest, the fair, the decent and the kind if it had been done deliberately.

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  40. Shame on you, Phil. Don’t you get the lion’s-share of comments already, with every article you submit? Yet, you still decided to dip your johnson in fodder for the Dumbass Brigade.

    Rather than a special, non-governmental yet mysteriously well-funded “commission” to re-examine the WTC attacks, how about we have an independent commission to root out corruption in the US governments at all local, state, and federal levels? And we hang a few sterling examples?

    Every “re-examination” in history has been nothing but boondoggle. And new lies, new sets of lies, new wildass conspiracy theories, astronomically-high expense, etc. Screw that. Go in there, find corruption, and drag the guilty out by tits and testicles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dahoit
    No way you are a Smith.You are a Shomer.
    Everything you spew reveals it.By deception they rule.
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  41. Fred Reed says:

    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)

    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___

    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___

    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don’t know___

    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___

    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don’t know___

    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___

    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don’t know__

    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together

    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.

    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    Read More
    • Replies: @WorkingClass
    Question for Fred. What happened on 9/11? Hint - you don't fucking know.
    , @FLgeezer
    >If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    We should do so regardless. 8-)
    , @John Jeremiah Smith
    You just can't resist, can ya, Fred? Awww, stop already. Leave the dumbasses to their feedbins. America needs dumbasses now more than ever.

    Waaaaaitaminnit ... that was you who faked that Beltway shot of the plane going into the Pentagon, warn't it? Yepper, it figures you were in on the whole deal from the beginning. Prolly went to Tel Aviv with the money in a satchel, dint ya?
    , @Miro23
    A simpler 9/11 questionnaire for Fred;

    "Did right wing elements in Israel close to Likud, and US Neocons close to the Bush administration engineer the attacks to enable the Iraq war?" Yes____ No____ Don't know____

    Essay question: Are there any similarities between these events and other False Flag attacks aimed at Great Britain and the US such as 1) The King David Hotel bombing 2) Operation Susannah - Lavon Affair 3) USS Liberty?
    , @Che Guava
    Fred,

    Love your writing.

    Silberstein is the co-owner. The other is Frank Lowy (interesting how well he's stayed out of the spotlight). With the gargantuan insurance payments, both qualify under cui bono.

    There is also the small matter of extremely profitable and massive stock market moves in the hours framing the event. Widely reported in the regular press, an investigation was announced, it was quashed.

    So, no matter what else, some people gained massive windfall profits from the event.

    The insurance may have been blind luck, although I don't believe it. Silberstein and Lowy don't seem at all affected by the fates of the people in their property.

    If the big one (earthquake) hit and I and any of the few other tenants were buried in the rubble, dead, and our landlady survived in her free-standing home, I'm sure she would pray for us at the appropriate shrines or temples, and be in grief for us.

    The stock market plays are another matter. They were real, and clearly a form of insider trading, based on knowledge of what was to happen.
    , @Rurik

    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    no, Israel was also responsible

    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    No, elements in the US gov and controlled media were also responsible

    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not governments per se, but elements in those governments. Like "the orders still stand" Dick Cheney, but certainly not all the assorted minions of the US or Israeli governments.

    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not governments per se. If you restrict the question to this broadly defined blanket condemnation, then the answer would be 'yes'.

    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    there's zero reason for thinking so

    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    at the highest levels, yes, but there again, that certainly doesn't mean every single employee

    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Don't know

    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    there's no evidence of it. And if it had, they'd show us one of the scores (hundreds?) of videos

    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don’t know___
     
    the reason the flights were wildly diverted was probably to land the planes, liquidate the passengers and crew, and then send up specially outfitted jets for the purpose of crashing into the towers. (as the pretext for them to collapse, as the pretext to start the Eternal Wars for Israel and to turn us all into Palestinians)

    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    it looks like it

    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Don't know. And again, it wouldn't be "the military", as in some monolithic entity that is fully aware of everything that "it' does. There are fringe sub-sets of the military that are often engaged in illegal and covert ops.

    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don’t know___
     
    Don't know

    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    what data?!

    From what I understand, we have not been made privy to any of the information on any of the flight data recorders. If you're aware of any data from the flight data recorders then you should give us a link!

    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    yes

    it's *obvious* that building seven was thus demolished, and so it follows that the other two were also.

    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    two of them, yes. The third was not hit by a plane, it simply plopped down in nicely cut pieces ready for shipment to China.

    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don’t know__
     
    In all likelihood, remote control. Check out the comptroller of the Pentagon at the time and his sundry organizations. Nice little rabbit hole of its own.

    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together
     
    horror

    they needed to horrify and anger the American people to rally us to war on Israel's neighbors. (+ there was the added benefit to lucky Larry of a few billion shekels and an opportunity to get rid of a couple of financial boondoggles. Such a deal!)

    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.
     
    this is silly

    we don't need to know the exact caliber of bullet that hit JFK to know that the government and Warren commission was lying. And they likely used military type crap that we're not even privy to. Come on Fred.

    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    elements, sure

    like the people that went around and collected all the videos that might have showed what hit the Pentagon. Certainly the people at the top were and are privy to the crime and cover up. Just like with JFK.

    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Yes, of course he was

    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not your local channel seven, but the media as it's controlled from the top, and lie about EVERTYING. Yes Fred, that media was complicit. And still are. And are the ones that are going to hand the reins of this nations to Hillary Clinton. That media, you betcha.

    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?
     
    of course not. There again you're being silly Fred.

    what America should do is the same thing is should (and still needs to) do as regards the other cowardly and treacherous false flag that *elements* in the Israeli government and security forces were responsible for- the attack on the USS Liberty. We should have a real investigation that ferrets out these uber-criminals and brings them to justice.

    911 was a coup to turn the US into Israel's rabid dog in the Levant. And create a police state for any Americans that object, even with our very own torture camp. Isn't that something?

    You should write about it someday Fred. I can't think of a person more suited to mock the American idea of the free and the brave running a torture camp for goat herders and Afghans who don't want America making them free too.

    as for 911, all you have to know is that building seven was an obvious controlled demolition. From there it doesn't matter if George Dubya Bush was in on it or what type of materials specifically were used to bring the buildings down. That shit is all academic. We know they lied, and are lying. Only a deluded fool or moral coward (or worse) would pretend to themselves otherwise once he's seen the irrefutable evidence that they're lying.
    , @edNels
    Do we get to select a few to answer?

    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition?
     
    yes_X__no___Don’t know___
    Call a spade a spade, has anybody not seen video or first hand observed controlled demolition? What's it look like to ya Buckwheat?

    Did aircraft hit the the Towers?
     
    yes_X__no___Don’t know___
    surplus aircraft painted, dolled up, refitted and remotely controlled. That really doesn't stress ones imagination does it? though to say it out loud is UnPC.

    If so, who flew them?
     
    __ Pobably some doofus kid that thought he was playing a new computer game, only it wasn't.__________ Don’t know__

    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together
     
    That's real simple, one was to do the job and the other was to make a dramatic show piece appearance to hide the other, as obvious as it was, and it works pretty damned good too, for those who can't think out the box…!

    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.
     
    That's over my ''pay grade'' Jackson. But suffice it to say, a lot less than you think, when there's attention to detail about how and where the placement is optimized by … those who know, aided by unlimited funds to accomplish it. The of the best if twisted minds, could do it, and again use of deceptive cover operations like retrofitting the ''fire retardants in the void areas where access to main columns and other structures could be had.

    Additionallyt a point of interest is that you apparently had a group of very questionable ''Live work'' artists'' with 24/7 access who were on a video making a wooden porch out of a window high up, and having photos made from a (rented helicopter), nice if you can pull a permit for that, don't you think?

    As for sources here, it all comes from a mellange of videos, comments, common sense, and hypothetical extropolations yet to be defined per se.
    , @CanSpeccy
    Poor Fred. Has to scrape a living as a pathetic agent of cognitive infiltration, muddying the waters over 9/11.

    The answer to Fred's silly questions, incidentally, is this: No, you don't have to be an anti-Semite to say that three WTC buildings were destroyed on 9/11 with explosives.
    , @AnalogMan
    So, let me see if I follow your argument.

    If you don't know all the answers, then you know nothing.

    If you know nothing, then the 9/11 Commission report is correct in all respects.

    Q.E.D.

    I used to enjoy your writing, but lately you seem to have lost the plot. It's no disgrace; dementia comes to all who live long enough.

    We don't need to know every detail of who did what, and how, and who knew about it. All we need is one obvious lie to discredit the official story. Start with Building 7. No we don't know exactly what happened. Obviously, there are many hypotheses, and some of them are crazy. So is the official story.

    All we are asking for is an honest investigation, with the results published and the guilty punished.
    , @The Scalpel
    Fred, Every time you comment on this topic, I lose more respect for your opinion. Your comments are not even good from an "anti-truther" perspective. They are just, well, lame and weak. If you were not a writer for this site, I would consider your comments completely irrelevant and not pay them any attention at all.

    On the up side, seeing some of the kind of stuff that you, a prominent writer, puts out, gives me some increased respect for my own writing. Thanks!

    , @restless94110
    Fred,

    You are an unfunny moron.

    You make up a quiz that no one could possibly answer any of the questions to. All that would be pure speculation.

    So you are implying that you think that anyone who challenges the official conspiracy theory is someone who also would venture to speculate on who did it and why they did it?

    Even though your ability to form logical thought has been severely impaired by your recent brain injury, you are clearly saying that you firmly believe that you, too, doubt the official conspiracy theory.

    Congrats, Fred! Take a few less Xanax tonight!

    In the meantime, speculation is for morons, Fred.

    Try to be less of one?
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  42. @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 Truthers screen out expert opinion from intellectually honest experts. And anyone who challenges the 9/11 Truther "scientific" expertise is either stupid....or part of the 9/11 Conspiracy....9/11 Truthers are absolutely "brilliant" debaters!!!.


    9/11 was completely avoidable:1965 -2016 a National Origins Immigration Policy that completey excluded all Muslims forever. But these raises the very interesting question of why Muslims are being imported into the US in the first place. Answer:51 years of importing Hillary Clinton's Voting Bloc(Khirzir Khan's People)...And this is gar worse than 9/11 and the Fort Hood Massacre by many many orders of magnitude.

    What Motivated the 9/11 Hijackers? See testimony most didn’t!:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=PlayList&p=F81BB573C9C0C7B2&index=0&playnext=1

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  43. Miro23 says:

    “The 9/11 Truthers shriek” , ” 9/11-Doucher”, “More 9/11 truther kooker spew”

    There’s definitely something going on here. If 9/11 was a genuine Arab Jihadist attack on the US, they would be first in line to investigate it in Holocaust level detail. As it is, 9/11 falls in to the very different USS Liberty False Flag category. Survivors and witnesses are bitterly attacked until 50 years later when its “old history” and “time to move on”.

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    • Replies: @HdC
    ..."investigate it in Holocaust level detail. "...

    Unless you mean the Leuchter and Rudolf reports, there never was any official detailled investigation.

    The entire holocaust fable relies on "eye witness testimony" which has been thoroughly debunked.

    In another thread on this website I wrote a brief engineering analysis (I'm a P.Eng. with structural steel experience) as to why the onset of the WTC collapse was a reasonable expectation following the aircraft impact; but my missive was deleted for reasons unknown.

    HdC

    , @War for Blair Mountain
    There physics and engineering science behind the collapse of the TT does not support the 9/11 Truther Conspiracy. It has been 15 years of fine grained-technical-refutations of 9/11 Truther "Science"....just google it.




    The 9/11 Truther start out with the "truth" of their grand conspiracy....reality is grossly distorted to fit the 9/11 Truther Psychosis. This is not how science works....suppose to work.
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  44. Diogenes says:

    9/11 was an amazing sociological event for what it can tell us about human psychology. The vast majority of people uncritically swallowed the official explanation, a few critical observers cast suspicions on the official story, then a group of chronically suspicious people, known as conspiracy theorists, who believe the government cannot be trusted had a cause celebre, then a group of anti conspiracy theorists and pro-government reactionaries devoted their energies to discredit the 9/11 Truthers while the vast majority of people are as a result confused and paralyzed into indecision and apathy. I will take note of who in these comments are 9/11 naysayers and observe what they say about other controversial topics!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Miro23

    "The vast majority of people uncritically swallowed the official explanation"
     
    That's me, and I also read and accepted the 9/11 Commission Report with its account of US government bungling and lack of communication.

    The surprise came later when I found that a third building (47 storey tower WTC7) collapsed that same day, of which I had heard nothing, and about which the Commission Report was completely silent. Why?
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  45. “Only two governments would have had that capability, the United States itself and also Israel, unfortunately mentioned only once in passing in the film”

    Even the makers of this film fear the wrath of the yid.

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  46. @Bill
    The March for Life brings about a half million each year. What's the exact number they need to get to for regime change to materialize?

    A million might do it, but not as a day trip. They’d need to camp out like OWS or the old WW I bonus army. Getting tear gassed and tased wouldn’t be fun, but it might get some media attention.

    Oh, I forgot who’s running the media these days. Probably would get less coverage than the North Dakota pipeline protests.

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  47. @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    Question for Fred. What happened on 9/11? Hint – you don’t fucking know.

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  48. dahoit says:

    Well,only one nation benefited from 9-11,Israel.
    All the media is Israeli centric.
    They lie serially.
    Israel did it,or at least knew.
    And they made a hero out of the zero who let it happen.
    What do you need,a punch in the face to wake up?
    And the serial liars want no part of DT.
    Which means we need him desperately,and will on Nov 8,despite serial liars bloviation.

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  49. dahoit says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith
    Shame on you, Phil. Don't you get the lion's-share of comments already, with every article you submit? Yet, you still decided to dip your johnson in fodder for the Dumbass Brigade.

    Rather than a special, non-governmental yet mysteriously well-funded "commission" to re-examine the WTC attacks, how about we have an independent commission to root out corruption in the US governments at all local, state, and federal levels? And we hang a few sterling examples?

    Every "re-examination" in history has been nothing but boondoggle. And new lies, new sets of lies, new wildass conspiracy theories, astronomically-high expense, etc. Screw that. Go in there, find corruption, and drag the guilty out by tits and testicles.

    No way you are a Smith.You are a Shomer.
    Everything you spew reveals it.By deception they rule.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivy
    Smiths musical interlude:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUMh8GQnDW8

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Soon_Is_Now
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  50. Rurik says:

    The underlying premise of most 9/11 revisionism is that the United States government, or at least parts of it, is capable of almost anything.

    we now know that they set the Waco compound on fire, and that they were firing machine guns into the only exit once the flames had engulfed the building. Bodies were piled up at the site of the exit that the coroner ruled were homicide deaths from bullet wounds. Homicides that our government committed. Most American yawn at such news. ‘Those people (including the children) were ‘whackos’.

    Recently our government has murdered or maimed or displaced millions upon millions of innocent men, women and children in the Middle East, and destroyed several countries, all based on by now well-established lies. Most Americans yawn at such knowledge. Those people ‘hate our freedom’.

    Our government is also running a permanent torture camp. A ‘Ministry of Love’, or Minluv, in Orwell’s Newspeak parlance.

    The signatories of the neocon Project for the New American Century paper observed that was needed was a catalyst to produce a public demand to “do something,” that “something” being an event comparable to Pearl Harbor. Seventeen signatories of the document wound up in senior positions in the Bush Administration.

    the “something” that these neocon Zionists demanded from their “new Pearl Harbor like event” was for America to set about destroying all Muslim nations considered inconvenient to Israel. Without the ‘event’, Americans just were not willing to sacrifice their children to the Zionist cause.

    One of the central figures demanding that America act in Israel’s interest was a one Phillip D. Zelikow. A neocon insider extraordinaire.

    This from his Wiki page:

    In the November–December 1998 issue of Foreign Affairs, he co-authored an article Catastrophic Terrorism, with Ashton B. Carter, and John M. Deutch, in which they speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded, “the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America’s fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet atomic bomb test in 1949. Like Pearl Harbor, the event would divide our past and future into a before and after. The United States might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force. More violence could follow, either future terrorist attacks or U.S. counterattacks. Belatedly, Americans would judge their leaders negligent for not addressing terrorism more urgently.” [24]

    Yes, that Ashton Carter, our current Secretary of Defense. And John Deutch was the director of the CIA at one time. (perhaps Mr. Giraldi knows of him)

    This Jewish neocon war mongering Zionist who called for a Peal Harbor like event to catalyze Americans to go to war for Israel, ended up being the executive director of the 911 Commission. The same 911 Commission that is universally recognized as a fraud and a cover up. Even by some of the men who were on it.

    I’m going to stop here. My head simply swims from the sheer evil of these people.

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    • Agree: Miro23, Stonehands
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  51. Miro23 says:
    @Diogenes
    9/11 was an amazing sociological event for what it can tell us about human psychology. The vast majority of people uncritically swallowed the official explanation, a few critical observers cast suspicions on the official story, then a group of chronically suspicious people, known as conspiracy theorists, who believe the government cannot be trusted had a cause celebre, then a group of anti conspiracy theorists and pro-government reactionaries devoted their energies to discredit the 9/11 Truthers while the vast majority of people are as a result confused and paralyzed into indecision and apathy. I will take note of who in these comments are 9/11 naysayers and observe what they say about other controversial topics!

    “The vast majority of people uncritically swallowed the official explanation”

    That’s me, and I also read and accepted the 9/11 Commission Report with its account of US government bungling and lack of communication.

    The surprise came later when I found that a third building (47 storey tower WTC7) collapsed that same day, of which I had heard nothing, and about which the Commission Report was completely silent. Why?

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    The surprise came later when I found that a third building (47 storey tower WTC7) collapsed that same day, of which I had heard nothing, and about which the Commission Report was completely silent. Why?
     
    NIST published a full report on the WTC7 collapse in 2008. It's around -- go read it.

    A key to instant identification of the faith-based C-theorist is the loud claim that "steel-framed buildings" don't collapse as a result of fire. Fact is, yes they do -- known, verified, fully-explained using real, verifiable data.
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  52. dahoit says:
    @2Frothy4
    Will only say ONE thing regarding 9/11...........
    The shock wave from the Pentagon hit almost knocked me out of my chair
    from 1/2 mile away....I thought a bus had hit my office trailer....when I stepped outside
    to investigate,I saw a huge,black plane coming across the Potomac.....
    Later,on the news,I saw an interview with a black kid who saw the same thing....
    I've never seen that interview again.......
    No one can tell me that it WASN'T a MISSILE that hit....

    DC is the lowest profile city in America,where the highest point is the Wash, monument.
    Why are there absolutely no photos from the many tourists out that beautiful day to confirm a jet?
    Digital cameras were commonplace at the time,as well as traditional cameras.
    Scam.

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    • Replies: @Delinquent Snail
    if i remember correctly, after 911, the fbi was scrambling to grab up all photos and videos of the events that took place. They went thru and canvassed the areas extensively, making sure to not miss any pesky video that might throw a wrench in their "official narrative". Same thing happened after the Kennedy assassination. Seems suspicious if you just step back analyze it.....
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  53. FLgeezer says:
    @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    >If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    We should do so regardless. 8-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom Welsh
    Well, it does seem unfair to leave just one nation in the Near East unbombed...
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  54. dahoit says:
    @Marcus
    Troofers, like JFK conspiracy theorists, are small-minded people who believe that history has to unfold in a "logical" fashion, or something must be very wrong: a loser like Oswald can't assassinate the leader of the free world, "Arabs with boxcutters" can't be responsible for 9/11, etc. hence "weight" has to be added to the perpetrators: they were patsies of a larger satanic plot of the CIA, the Vatican, etc.

    I find you zionists the smallest minded idiots in the history of the world,but you clowns think you are gods.
    Whom the gods destroy,they first make mad.
    Pride goeth before the fall.
    Two very relevant homilies?
    Trump will reveal the truth,hence the zionist hatred.What else would drive their hydrophobia?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Thanks for proving my point, you think anyone who doesn't entertain your kookery is obviously an eebil Zionest. Also, hydrophobia??
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  55. @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    You just can’t resist, can ya, Fred? Awww, stop already. Leave the dumbasses to their feedbins. America needs dumbasses now more than ever.

    Waaaaaitaminnit … that was you who faked that Beltway shot of the plane going into the Pentagon, warn’t it? Yepper, it figures you were in on the whole deal from the beginning. Prolly went to Tel Aviv with the money in a satchel, dint ya?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    People who readily resort to name-calling and insults are typically on the losing side of argument.
    , @restless94110
    John Jeremiah?

    Your bromance with Fred? He's married, John. He's straight.

    Before you send him any more of your dirty underwear, check that he's available.

    Recommendation: find some other guy's boots to lick.

    You'll feel more fulfilled.
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  56. Miro23 says:
    @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    A simpler 9/11 questionnaire for Fred;

    “Did right wing elements in Israel close to Likud, and US Neocons close to the Bush administration engineer the attacks to enable the Iraq war?” Yes____ No____ Don’t know____

    Essay question: Are there any similarities between these events and other False Flag attacks aimed at Great Britain and the US such as 1) The King David Hotel bombing 2) Operation Susannah – Lavon Affair 3) USS Liberty?

    Read More
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  57. HdC says:
    @Miro23

    "The 9/11 Truthers shriek" , " 9/11-Doucher", "More 9/11 truther kooker spew"
     
    There's definitely something going on here. If 9/11 was a genuine Arab Jihadist attack on the US, they would be first in line to investigate it in Holocaust level detail. As it is, 9/11 falls in to the very different USS Liberty False Flag category. Survivors and witnesses are bitterly attacked until 50 years later when its "old history" and "time to move on".

    …”investigate it in Holocaust level detail. “…

    Unless you mean the Leuchter and Rudolf reports, there never was any official detailled investigation.

    The entire holocaust fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    In another thread on this website I wrote a brief engineering analysis (I’m a P.Eng. with structural steel experience) as to why the onset of the WTC collapse was a reasonable expectation following the aircraft impact; but my missive was deleted for reasons unknown.

    HdC

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    The entire holocaust fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    The entire reality "we exist" fable relies on "eye witness testimony" which has been thoroughly debunked.
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  58. dahoit says:
    @Tom Welsh
    "So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!”

    I think we can all imagine what Lt. Columbo would make of an attempt to cremate the body immediately after a suspicious death!

    And the MSM total ignoring of the alleged attackers motivations,or family interviews or any real concern about the behind the scenes machinations of various Saudi and Israelis leaves no doubt of a coverup.
    Letting the shrub stand on the wreckage of his own failures,and proclaiming him a hero,and the demonization of Saddam Hussein,the mortal enemy of the jihadists,and the enemy of zion,is another revelation ignored by so many morons,or fifth columnist traitors.
    And the Israelis told to stay home that day,another narrative hidden,and a smoking gun for any rational human.
    Serial liars lie serially,and they hate DT.WTF does anyone need?

    Read More
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  59. @Miro23

    "The vast majority of people uncritically swallowed the official explanation"
     
    That's me, and I also read and accepted the 9/11 Commission Report with its account of US government bungling and lack of communication.

    The surprise came later when I found that a third building (47 storey tower WTC7) collapsed that same day, of which I had heard nothing, and about which the Commission Report was completely silent. Why?

    The surprise came later when I found that a third building (47 storey tower WTC7) collapsed that same day, of which I had heard nothing, and about which the Commission Report was completely silent. Why?

    NIST published a full report on the WTC7 collapse in 2008. It’s around — go read it.

    A key to instant identification of the faith-based C-theorist is the loud claim that “steel-framed buildings” don’t collapse as a result of fire. Fact is, yes they do — known, verified, fully-explained using real, verifiable data.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    John Jeremiah Smith


    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse.....and it refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of free fall-although the 9/11 to this day dishonestly claim the NIST measurement of the time of the collapse supports their free fall theory. The authors of the NIST reject the 9/11 Truther misrepresentation of their research.
    , @Chuckie

    Fact is, yes they do — known, verified, fully-explained using real, verifiable data.
     
    Since you seem to appreciate proper language use and like to waste comments correcting others for simple mistakes:

    Another basic rule is that we never hyphenate compounds that are created with "-ly" adverbs, even when they PRECEDE the nouns they modify: "a fully developed plan," for example, or "a nationally certified teacher."
     
    So "fully explained" would be correct. No hyphen.
    , @restless94110
    No steel buildings don't collapse as a result of fire. Ever. Not known, never verified, never even partially explained using any real data.

    That's fact, you lying piece of shit.
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  60. Che Guava says:
    @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    Fred,

    Love your writing.

    Silberstein is the co-owner. The other is Frank Lowy (interesting how well he’s stayed out of the spotlight). With the gargantuan insurance payments, both qualify under cui bono.

    There is also the small matter of extremely profitable and massive stock market moves in the hours framing the event. Widely reported in the regular press, an investigation was announced, it was quashed.

    So, no matter what else, some people gained massive windfall profits from the event.

    The insurance may have been blind luck, although I don’t believe it. Silberstein and Lowy don’t seem at all affected by the fates of the people in their property.

    If the big one (earthquake) hit and I and any of the few other tenants were buried in the rubble, dead, and our landlady survived in her free-standing home, I’m sure she would pray for us at the appropriate shrines or temples, and be in grief for us.

    The stock market plays are another matter. They were real, and clearly a form of insider trading, based on knowledge of what was to happen.

    Read More
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  61. Jon Gold says: • Website

    “For the first time” – David Cobb did in 2004, and Cynthia McKinney did in 2008.

    Read More
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  62. Jon Gold says: • Website

    Loose Change? C’mon Phil…

    9/11: Press For Truth

    In Their Own Words: The Untold Stories Of The 9/11 Families

    9/11 Family Members, Jersey Girls, and member of the 9/11 Family Steering Committee Lorie Van Auken and Mindy Kleinberg released a report showing how poorly the 9/11 Commission answered their questions:

    http://wewereliedtoabout911.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/fsc_review.pdf

    The September Eleventh Advocates (Jersey Girls) have released a multitude of press releases over the years bringing attention to and calling into question certain aspects of 9/11:

    http://wewereliedtoabout911.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/911advocates.pdf

    Here are the 9/11 Family Steering Committee’s list of unanswered questions. The final statement from the 9/11 Family Steering Committee states “the report did not answer all of our questions…”:

    http://www.911independentcommission.org/questions.html

    Here is essential testimony from different 9/11 Family Members during the 9/11 Commission:

    http://www.911independentcommission.org/testimony.html

    Here are all of the different statements released by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee during the time of the 9/11 Commission. They show extremely well the corruption and compromise within the 9/11 Commission:

    http://www.911independentcommission.org/news.html

    My EXTREMELY extensive show “We Were Lied To About 9/11.”

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/we-were-lied-to-about-9-11/id955030348?mt=2

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  63. SamShama says:

    Disappointing.

    Read More
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  64. @Miro23

    "The 9/11 Truthers shriek" , " 9/11-Doucher", "More 9/11 truther kooker spew"
     
    There's definitely something going on here. If 9/11 was a genuine Arab Jihadist attack on the US, they would be first in line to investigate it in Holocaust level detail. As it is, 9/11 falls in to the very different USS Liberty False Flag category. Survivors and witnesses are bitterly attacked until 50 years later when its "old history" and "time to move on".

    There physics and engineering science behind the collapse of the TT does not support the 9/11 Truther Conspiracy. It has been 15 years of fine grained-technical-refutations of 9/11 Truther “Science”….just google it.

    The 9/11 Truther start out with the “truth” of their grand conspiracy….reality is grossly distorted to fit the 9/11 Truther Psychosis. This is not how science works….suppose to work.

    Read More
    • Replies: @restless94110
    How would a simpleton such as yourself know a thing about Science. There's no such a thing as Truther Science.

    Only science, numbskull.

    You saying science isn't valid doesn't make the science invalid.

    It just makes you invalid.

    How bout you just shut the fuck up unless you have something intelligent to say?

    Is that asking too much?
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  65. Tom Welsh says:
    @Wade

    What people like you (and I have fallen for it too many times, too) fail to understand, Jonathan, is that your target is deeply consistently propagandized people who see their manipulators as absolutely trustworthy sources of information and you (plural) as an angry, petulant, outsider making strange claims.
     
    This is absolutely correct. I got this reaction from family members recently when I simply tried to explain Hillary Clinton's multiple crimes and potential treason as revealed by Judicial Watch and Wikileaks. For example, there is pretty solid evidence that the Clintons are laundering money given to the Clinton foundation through a pass-through shell corporation called WJC LLC. This turned up through some documents called "The Panama Papers."

    Although they don't support Hillary for president, some of my family members seem to think that if she's really this bad she wouldn't have gotten this far. I can't imagine trying to explain the case that 911 was an inside job to them.

    “Although they don’t support Hillary for president, some of my family members seem to think that if she’s really this bad she wouldn’t have gotten this far”.

    Now that really is bitterly ironic. If she WASN’T that bad she wouldn’t have gotten this far. The presidency is a prize that appeals only to the power-hungry and psychotic. The election process could hardly have been better designed to weed out the honest, the fair, the decent and the kind if it had been done deliberately.

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  66. Tom Welsh says:
    @FLgeezer
    >If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    We should do so regardless. 8-)

    Well, it does seem unfair to leave just one nation in the Near East unbombed…

    Read More
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  67. @John Jeremiah Smith

    The surprise came later when I found that a third building (47 storey tower WTC7) collapsed that same day, of which I had heard nothing, and about which the Commission Report was completely silent. Why?
     
    NIST published a full report on the WTC7 collapse in 2008. It's around -- go read it.

    A key to instant identification of the faith-based C-theorist is the loud claim that "steel-framed buildings" don't collapse as a result of fire. Fact is, yes they do -- known, verified, fully-explained using real, verifiable data.

    John Jeremiah Smith

    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse…..and it refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of free fall-although the 9/11 to this day dishonestly claim the NIST measurement of the time of the collapse supports their free fall theory. The authors of the NIST reject the 9/11 Truther misrepresentation of their research.

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse
     
    A disproportionate amount of the C-Theory hinges on Bldg. 7, so Bldg. 7 collapse as "unexplained" is being vociferously claimed and defended by C-Theorists.

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden. In fact, the frequently pointed-to external steel framing of the WTC was intended, partially, as prevention of the supposedly unlikely event of just such a fire. It worked, almost, in that the vertical collapse as the corner welds popped prevented extreme additional destruction to adjacent buildings. Can you imagine the death and calamity on the streets below, had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally? New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.
    , @The Scalpel
    "And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse…..and it refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of free fall"


    That statement is simply false - a lie.

    Ironically, those labeling the "truthers" here as "nuts" or "paranoid" offer no evidence. They simply point out inconsistencies in the "truthers" explanations (the same thing they accuse truthers of doing). They then attempt to bolster their argument by insinuating that because they agree with the government sposored view, their opinion is inherently more credible than the "truthers". Finally, they attempt to impair the opposing argument by the use of derogatory name calling.

    Pot, kettle, black

    What is needed is sound science and understanding of basic scientific principal as well as logic

    For example, it is contrary to the laws of physics for a plane that did a nose dive intact into a farm field to spew debris a mile away in the direction opposite of travel.

    From this basic fact we can conclude that without a doubt, the goverment is lying to us about some aspects of 911.

    Now, Fred, and you other "anti-truthers," where do YOU draw the line on what parts of the 911 story the government is lying about or not? On what basis do you draw that line except an objective, competent, independent investigation?
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  68. Jon Gold says: • Website

    NO NEW AUMF!!! NO MORE WAR!!!

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  69. iffen says:
    @HdC
    ..."investigate it in Holocaust level detail. "...

    Unless you mean the Leuchter and Rudolf reports, there never was any official detailled investigation.

    The entire holocaust fable relies on "eye witness testimony" which has been thoroughly debunked.

    In another thread on this website I wrote a brief engineering analysis (I'm a P.Eng. with structural steel experience) as to why the onset of the WTC collapse was a reasonable expectation following the aircraft impact; but my missive was deleted for reasons unknown.

    HdC

    The entire holocaust fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    The entire reality “we exist” fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    It is interesting to contrast the "holocaust", where even the most absurd eyewitness testimony is taken as sacrosanct and beyond reproach, with events like 9-11 (or OKC, etc.) where eyewitness testimony contradicting the official account is dismissed as "unreliable".
    , @Art
    HdC: The entire holocaust fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    Hey iffen,

    Did you see the video of the Mexican guy laughing at the Six Million Lie? It was infectious and hilarious --- and so right on.

    He said it was “six million” then the “four million” at Auschwitz was reduced to “1.5 million” - but the total was still “six million” - then he busted out laughing. So funny. Even you would have to love the guy.

    Art

    p.s. There are 6,666 million good people out there who you maliciously call 88’s. You had their sympathy at one time - but no longer. You fooled them into letting you do bad things to the Palestinians. Now they no longer give a fig for your lie.
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  70. @Marcus
    Troofers, like JFK conspiracy theorists, are small-minded people who believe that history has to unfold in a "logical" fashion, or something must be very wrong: a loser like Oswald can't assassinate the leader of the free world, "Arabs with boxcutters" can't be responsible for 9/11, etc. hence "weight" has to be added to the perpetrators: they were patsies of a larger satanic plot of the CIA, the Vatican, etc.

    Although it would be overkill….and very cruel….the JFK assassination Conspiracy Theorists should have been forced to give their physics calculation which shows that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn’t have shot JFK in fr0nt of the tenured Cal Tech Physics Department.

    I have violent hatred of the scummy Kennedy Family. The Kennedy Cockroach Clan murdered the Historic Native Born White American Majority Working Class.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Yeah no tears for them. JFK himself coined "nation of immigrants" in tract he wrote for ADL. Joe Kennedy, Sr. was the only good one, he tried to keep US out of WW2.
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  71. Rurik says:
    @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___

    no, Israel was also responsible

    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___

    No, elements in the US gov and controlled media were also responsible

    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___

    not governments per se, but elements in those governments. Like “the orders still stand” Dick Cheney, but certainly not all the assorted minions of the US or Israeli governments.

    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___

    not governments per se. If you restrict the question to this broadly defined blanket condemnation, then the answer would be ‘yes’.

    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___

    there’s zero reason for thinking so

    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___

    at the highest levels, yes, but there again, that certainly doesn’t mean every single employee

    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Don’t know

    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___

    there’s no evidence of it. And if it had, they’d show us one of the scores (hundreds?) of videos

    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don’t know___

    the reason the flights were wildly diverted was probably to land the planes, liquidate the passengers and crew, and then send up specially outfitted jets for the purpose of crashing into the towers. (as the pretext for them to collapse, as the pretext to start the Eternal Wars for Israel and to turn us all into Palestinians)

    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___

    it looks like it

    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Don’t know. And again, it wouldn’t be “the military”, as in some monolithic entity that is fully aware of everything that “it’ does. There are fringe sub-sets of the military that are often engaged in illegal and covert ops.

    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don’t know___

    Don’t know

    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    what data?!

    From what I understand, we have not been made privy to any of the information on any of the flight data recorders. If you’re aware of any data from the flight data recorders then you should give us a link!

    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___

    yes

    it’s *obvious* that building seven was thus demolished, and so it follows that the other two were also.

    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___

    two of them, yes. The third was not hit by a plane, it simply plopped down in nicely cut pieces ready for shipment to China.

    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don’t know__

    In all likelihood, remote control. Check out the comptroller of the Pentagon at the time and his sundry organizations. Nice little rabbit hole of its own.

    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together

    horror

    they needed to horrify and anger the American people to rally us to war on Israel’s neighbors. (+ there was the added benefit to lucky Larry of a few billion shekels and an opportunity to get rid of a couple of financial boondoggles. Such a deal!)

    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.

    this is silly

    we don’t need to know the exact caliber of bullet that hit JFK to know that the government and Warren commission was lying. And they likely used military type crap that we’re not even privy to. Come on Fred.

    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    elements, sure

    like the people that went around and collected all the videos that might have showed what hit the Pentagon. Certainly the people at the top were and are privy to the crime and cover up. Just like with JFK.

    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Yes, of course he was

    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___

    not your local channel seven, but the media as it’s controlled from the top, and lie about EVERTYING. Yes Fred, that media was complicit. And still are. And are the ones that are going to hand the reins of this nations to Hillary Clinton. That media, you betcha.

    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    of course not. There again you’re being silly Fred.

    what America should do is the same thing is should (and still needs to) do as regards the other cowardly and treacherous false flag that *elements* in the Israeli government and security forces were responsible for- the attack on the USS Liberty. We should have a real investigation that ferrets out these uber-criminals and brings them to justice.

    911 was a coup to turn the US into Israel’s rabid dog in the Levant. And create a police state for any Americans that object, even with our very own torture camp. Isn’t that something?

    You should write about it someday Fred. I can’t think of a person more suited to mock the American idea of the free and the brave running a torture camp for goat herders and Afghans who don’t want America making them free too.

    as for 911, all you have to know is that building seven was an obvious controlled demolition. From there it doesn’t matter if George Dubya Bush was in on it or what type of materials specifically were used to bring the buildings down. That shit is all academic. We know they lied, and are lying. Only a deluded fool or moral coward (or worse) would pretend to themselves otherwise once he’s seen the irrefutable evidence that they’re lying.

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    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    Hi Rurik,

    We are on the same side here, of course, but I really do have to re-iterate something that I have already been trying to communicate for some time now.

    The people on our side of the debate must stop adopting a passive approach. In the above, Freddy boy outlines a series of questions and you dutifully answer said questions. In other words, you immediately cede the initiative. Now, okay, you ask him some questions, but you know he's not going to answer, that's not how it works. He will either disappear or just ask some more asinine questions.

    No, it must be established up front that if you answer his questions, he must answer yours. Thus, when he asks the question of whether Larry Silverstein was in on it, you must establish that he, the defender of the official story must answer the question of whether Osama Bin Laden was behind the attacks, also were the Taliban in on it. And if that is the case, then he must outline the evidence. So this is very poor tactically:



    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Yes, of course he was
     
    I believe you should say: "In my opinion, Larry Silverstein was in on it, yes. Apparently, you believe that these attacks were orchestrated by Osama Bin Laden from faroff Afghanistan. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) If that is so, could you outline for me what the strongest evidence for that is?

    You cannot accept a situation in which you must continually answer his (mostly asinine) questions and there is no onus on the other side side (on Freddy boy in this case, but it's not specifically about him) to answer any question of yours. They continually play this game and get away with it.

    It's like I said in a previous essay, it's like a game of tennis in which your opponent always gets to serve, and then, even if you execute a perfect return of serve, they just ignore that, and grab a ball and serve again, without conceding the previous point.

    I called this "blowhard tactics" and, if you haven't figured it out by now, Freddy boy is one major league blowhard -- though he's not the only one!

    I know that self-observation is a difficult thing, but please consider what I'm saying, Rurik. You really really should develop an approach that is less reactive and try to put somebody like Freddy boy here in a position where he has to answer your questions. Okay, I know that Fred is not honest and he won't engage in an honest discussion, so if you ask him any pointed questions, like what the evidence is that OBL was behind it, he'll just walk away, but we establish this at least. We establish that the guy is dishonest and then once that is established, we can finally just stop pretending that he is and the gloves damned well come off... your approach takes us around in circles basically.

    Please think about what I'm trying to tell you.

    , @Stonehands
    Excellent job Rurik- it is all about educating the lurkers here. JR's advice is on point as well...

    The US needs a good political establishment enema....
    , @restless94110
    Brilliant words and reasoning.

    Thanks for that. Fred should write about it, but he is prejudiced. Apparently he is married to a Jewish woman.

    Got to keep things good at home. Hard to think straight, Fred. Don't expect much of you in this field.
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  72. Marcus says:
    @dahoit
    I find you zionists the smallest minded idiots in the history of the world,but you clowns think you are gods.
    Whom the gods destroy,they first make mad.
    Pride goeth before the fall.
    Two very relevant homilies?
    Trump will reveal the truth,hence the zionist hatred.What else would drive their hydrophobia?

    Thanks for proving my point, you think anyone who doesn’t entertain your kookery is obviously an eebil Zionest. Also, hydrophobia??

    Read More
    • Replies: @mcohen
    you see ...what did i tell ...911 kkkonspiracy is better than faulty towers for laughs.hydro phobia is classic.but what about faultytowerphobia.
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  73. Che Guava says:
    @dearieme
    "Hitler’s Reichstag fire ... [was] essentially fraudulent": some historians disagree. They think it probably was the work of the mad Dutch communist, and took the Nazis by surprise.

    You get it wrong with the ‘…’.

    Whilst there is some reason for doubt on the Reichstag fire, the cases for Pearl Harbour and the ‘Tonkin Gulf incident’ are well established.

    Although the latter two are not at all parallel, at Pearl Harbour, many were sacrificed to drag the U.S.A. into the war, the Tonkin Gulf incident shades into the land of pure propaganda.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    There are parallels with Pearl Harbor, certainly, to facilitate a war that otherwise wouldn't have occurred. But there is also parallel with Hiroshima, namely a weapons test meant to intimidate potential foreign adversaries.
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  74. woodNfish says:
    @Johnny F. Ive
    There is no steel from the twin towers to examine. It was immediately shipped to China after the collapse.
    "Steel was the structural material of the buildings. As such it was the most important evidence to preserve in order to puzzle out how the structures held up to the impacts and fires, but then disintegrated into rubble. Since the collapse of steel-framed skyscrapers due to fires is completely unprecedented, the steel should have been subjected to detailed analysis. So what did the authorities do with this key evidence of the vast crime and unprecedented engineering failure? They recycled it!"
    http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

    The government blew up the buildings angle shouldn't be pursued. Clearly the deep state and Israel benefited from 9/11.

    There are more documents out there to study if a leaker is inclined to release them to wikileaks: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/12/the-fbi-is-keeping-80-000-secret-files-on-the-saudis-and-9-11.html

    The members of the Deep state could have very well known about the hijackers and their plot. The CIA knew two hijackers were in the US and withheld the data from the FBI. The same thing could be said about the Boston bombing. The Russians warned us. Mossad was shadowing hijackers. It could very well be that the bombers got support in high places and allowed to conduct their operation. I don't know. I know as much about the machinery of such things as I do about the physics of why the buildings collapsed.

    I think questioning 9/11 outside of documents like the 28 pages is a discrediting vocation for the one who does it. We have proof that the US backs Al Qaeda in the Middle East (Libya/Syria). We have proof that Saudis and Qataris finance it. We have proof that Israel provides Al Qaeda with healthcare. I don't see why we need to have an evolution vs creationism debate on 9/11 when there is plenty of evidence that the threat was over-hyped and that there are Americans allied with the attackers now in very high places. I think people around Hillary are pragmatic and sociopathic like her. I think if 9/11 was an inside job it would have come from that cabal because they are Al Qaeda's biggest supporters in Syria/Libya, believe might makes right, and are duplicitous enough to actually do this. Who is calling the shots? Obama and his generals don't seem to be keen in helping Al Qaeda in Syria. Dempsey reportedly went behind his back to undermine the CIA and Al Qaeda in Syria. I have a hard time believing Obama is the orchestrator of all these machinations. There is ample proof that there are Americans at the very top and their underlings who have aided Al Qaeda and we are still at war with them. Perhaps we could talk a President Trump into it charging them with treason. They hate him. He hates them. The US needs a good political establishment enema. The thinktanks and institutions connected to foreign governments and the deep state should be cleansed of traitors.

    Trump has been saying he will drain the DC swamp.

    Sending the steel to China to get rid of the evidence is not unlike the government’s bulldozing of the still smouldering remains of the Branch Davidian massacre in Waco Texas after torturing the members and their children 24 hours a day for 83 days.

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    • Replies: @Johnny F. Ive
    Waco was a horrible crime.

    We should get on twitter and ask Donald Trump if he will charge them for treason, and whatever else that would be feasible to punish their treachery. I hope he does it. We all need to encourage him on it.

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  75. Marcus says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Although it would be overkill....and very cruel....the JFK assassination Conspiracy Theorists should have been forced to give their physics calculation which shows that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't have shot JFK in fr0nt of the tenured Cal Tech Physics Department.



    I have violent hatred of the scummy Kennedy Family. The Kennedy Cockroach Clan murdered the Historic Native Born White American Majority Working Class.

    Yeah no tears for them. JFK himself coined “nation of immigrants” in tract he wrote for ADL. Joe Kennedy, Sr. was the only good one, he tried to keep US out of WW2.

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  76. This is not rocket science or a John Le Carre novel. All you have to know is that the buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions. To confirm this, just find videos of Vegas hotels and the like being taken down. The buildings came down just slightly slower than free fall, which required that hundreds of eighty story high metal supports from which the rest of the buildings hung were destroyed all the way down, story by story, just ahead of the mass right above them. You do this by setting thermite charges in the building, story by story, and control the process by computer. How this was all done is a matter about which reasonable men can differ. That it was done is undeniable, and any rational effort to unravel the whole business has to start there.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    You do this by setting thermite charges in the building, story by story, and control the process by computer. How this was all done is a matter about which reasonable men can differ. That it was done is undeniable, and any rational effort to unravel the whole business has to start there.
     
    Nope. Videos of controlled demolition do not support anything except that proper placement of charges is one way to bring down a building vertically -- and controlled demolition is no guarantee of a purely vertical collapse.

    The C-Theorist claim that the WTC was brought down by controlled demolition is utter crap.
    , @MarkinLA
    In a controlled demolition the charges do not actually bring down the building. That is why there is a delay between the charges going off and the building collapsing. The charges weaken the superstructure just enough that the building can no longer stand and gravity brings the building down. There are usually cross members installed to help pull the outer walls into the center so there is less chance of debris going off-site. Gravity is what brought the WTC down. Instead of a bunch of small charges it was the force of a massive battering ram raining down on the lower floors of the building.
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  77. @War for Blair Mountain
    John Jeremiah Smith


    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse.....and it refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of free fall-although the 9/11 to this day dishonestly claim the NIST measurement of the time of the collapse supports their free fall theory. The authors of the NIST reject the 9/11 Truther misrepresentation of their research.

    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse

    A disproportionate amount of the C-Theory hinges on Bldg. 7, so Bldg. 7 collapse as “unexplained” is being vociferously claimed and defended by C-Theorists.

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden. In fact, the frequently pointed-to external steel framing of the WTC was intended, partially, as prevention of the supposedly unlikely event of just such a fire. It worked, almost, in that the vertical collapse as the corner welds popped prevented extreme additional destruction to adjacent buildings. Can you imagine the death and calamity on the streets below, had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally? New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.
     
    perhaps the most cynical thing I've ever read (and that's saying a lot!)

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known,
     
    it happens all the time! [never] except on 9/11

    but it was so certain to happen on 9/11 that they knew it would even before it did!

    I've posted this for you before

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOVnvFl5jZo

    perhaps Fred Reed can watch it too

    like the Israelis setting up their cameras to "document" the attack that day, this video is proof of foreknowledge of the controlled demolition of building seven

    for all the simpletons out there, for them to know the building was going to come down, it had to have been wired for a CD. Period. There's no wiggle room here folks

    and they weren't the only msm that fucked up and reported on the building falling before it did, the BBC did the same thing.

    Now please use your noggins and ask yourself how they could have known that this building was going to implode, when nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the world, before or since?

    even today anyone can watch that building collapse and see that it was brought down

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJBUedWFJ40

    , @Jonathan Revusky

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known,
     
    Can you name a single case where this happened excluding 9/11/2001?

    And I mean specifically: the integral collapse of a steel framed skyscraper from uncontrolled fire in a way that is visually identical to a controlled demolition? When and where did this happen?
    , @peacenik
    "That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden."


    You are a bare-faced liar!

    The truth is . . .

    ". . . neither before nor since 9/11 have fires caused
    the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise—nor has
    any other natural event, with the exception of the 1985
    Mexico City earthquake, which toppled a 21-story office
    building . . ."

    Source: http://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf
    , @anonymous

    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally
     
    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don't topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.
    , @restless94110
    You seriously are using the fire bombing of Dresden to prove what? No steel building has ever collapsed from fires. None. Ever.

    Thus the thinking people realized that if 7 collapsed that way, then 1 and 2 were similar.

    The so-called, according to you alone, C-Theory people are the physicists, architects and engineers who plan and construct steel high-rises.

    They challenge your C-Theory that a building has collapsed due solely to fires.

    You are the C-Theory guy who keeps spewing nonsense. Why?
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  78. @John McFarland
    This is not rocket science or a John Le Carre novel. All you have to know is that the buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions. To confirm this, just find videos of Vegas hotels and the like being taken down. The buildings came down just slightly slower than free fall, which required that hundreds of eighty story high metal supports from which the rest of the buildings hung were destroyed all the way down, story by story, just ahead of the mass right above them. You do this by setting thermite charges in the building, story by story, and control the process by computer. How this was all done is a matter about which reasonable men can differ. That it was done is undeniable, and any rational effort to unravel the whole business has to start there.

    You do this by setting thermite charges in the building, story by story, and control the process by computer. How this was all done is a matter about which reasonable men can differ. That it was done is undeniable, and any rational effort to unravel the whole business has to start there.

    Nope. Videos of controlled demolition do not support anything except that proper placement of charges is one way to bring down a building vertically — and controlled demolition is no guarantee of a purely vertical collapse.

    The C-Theorist claim that the WTC was brought down by controlled demolition is utter crap.

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    You are wrong. Controlled demolition when done correction is 100 percent guarantee of a purely vertical collapse.

    You D-Theory (for Dipshit) claim that WTC was brought down by fires (which NIST does not even claim) is utter crap.
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  79. TheJester says:

    There are multiple ways to engineer a “False Flag” attack:

    1. You do it yourself, flying someone else’s “flag” and hope no one notices. (Very primitive … rarely works unless you are a wooden frigate at sea attacking enemy maritime commerce.)

    2. You hire someone else to do it and hope none of them get caught. (Moderately primitive … but it worked for awhile in the Kennedy assassination.)

    3. You infiltrate a hostile terrorist organization, take control, and redirect it to the attack. (Very difficult to do … but this was done in the NATO-sponsored Gladio terrorist attacks in Europe in the 1960s as well as the Black Hand attacks that precipitated WWI.)

    4. You infiltrate a hostile terrorist organization, discover what they have planned, and QUIETLY remove all of YOUR obstacles that would otherwise have prevented the attack. (This is the best if you can pull it off since you leave no fingerprints. You might, as in 911, be accused of incompetent but, okay, you missed that one, so what!)

    BTW: #4 doesn’t mean you don’t help the terrorists with a little demolition work to make sure the spectacle unfolds as planned. You really need grand firework displays in these things to get them the attention they deserve.

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    • Replies: @Ex-Saffer
    You really need grand firework displays in these things to get them the attention they deserve.

    No, you don't. Planes flying into skyscrapers and leaving a gaping fiery hole is spectacle enough. If anything, leaving the buildings in that condition standing and visible from miles around is more consistent with a well-thought-out conspiracy: no conspirator would consider the risky and surplus-to-requirements step of mining the buildings. An additional risk, which I've yet to hear anyone mention, is the utter unpredictability of what might happen to a building that has been primed to blow when it is struck by a plane travelling at high speed. A jet-fuel-loaded plane could conceivably DISABLE the explosives setup, leaving the building bulging with so much incriminating evidence you might as well just point at it and laugh.

    I have yet to see a single plausible reason why the building had to come down rather than merely be flown into. Care to provide one?
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  80. Dr. Judy Wood
    ‘nuf said.

    http://robertmagill.wordpress.com

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    • Replies: @Alfred1860
    I found her website several years ago - very thought-provoking stuff indeed. One does have to wonder where all that concrete and steel went, because the resulting pile of rubble didn't contain it. Also of interest are the many photos of the dozens of randomly toasted cars all over the place.

    One thing I always remind myself is that by definition, the ratio of what we don't know to what we do know is infinity : 1.
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  81. Biff says:

    Watched loose change.

    While some of the architects and scientists were credible, the Marco Rubio janitor dude was practicing for a slot as a TV evangelist – not credible.

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    So the guy loses is job and spends years talking about what he saw in the sub basements. And you have decided by watching 10 minutes of a YouTube video that he's not credible?

    Wow.

    If you have such great powers of enlightenment, why don't you look at videos of Clinton, Obama, or Bush and tell us what you see?

    Why waste your incredible powers on a janitor?
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  82. @Rurik

    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    no, Israel was also responsible

    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    No, elements in the US gov and controlled media were also responsible

    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not governments per se, but elements in those governments. Like "the orders still stand" Dick Cheney, but certainly not all the assorted minions of the US or Israeli governments.

    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not governments per se. If you restrict the question to this broadly defined blanket condemnation, then the answer would be 'yes'.

    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    there's zero reason for thinking so

    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    at the highest levels, yes, but there again, that certainly doesn't mean every single employee

    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Don't know

    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    there's no evidence of it. And if it had, they'd show us one of the scores (hundreds?) of videos

    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don’t know___
     
    the reason the flights were wildly diverted was probably to land the planes, liquidate the passengers and crew, and then send up specially outfitted jets for the purpose of crashing into the towers. (as the pretext for them to collapse, as the pretext to start the Eternal Wars for Israel and to turn us all into Palestinians)

    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    it looks like it

    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Don't know. And again, it wouldn't be "the military", as in some monolithic entity that is fully aware of everything that "it' does. There are fringe sub-sets of the military that are often engaged in illegal and covert ops.

    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don’t know___
     
    Don't know

    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    what data?!

    From what I understand, we have not been made privy to any of the information on any of the flight data recorders. If you're aware of any data from the flight data recorders then you should give us a link!

    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    yes

    it's *obvious* that building seven was thus demolished, and so it follows that the other two were also.

    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    two of them, yes. The third was not hit by a plane, it simply plopped down in nicely cut pieces ready for shipment to China.

    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don’t know__
     
    In all likelihood, remote control. Check out the comptroller of the Pentagon at the time and his sundry organizations. Nice little rabbit hole of its own.

    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together
     
    horror

    they needed to horrify and anger the American people to rally us to war on Israel's neighbors. (+ there was the added benefit to lucky Larry of a few billion shekels and an opportunity to get rid of a couple of financial boondoggles. Such a deal!)

    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.
     
    this is silly

    we don't need to know the exact caliber of bullet that hit JFK to know that the government and Warren commission was lying. And they likely used military type crap that we're not even privy to. Come on Fred.

    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    elements, sure

    like the people that went around and collected all the videos that might have showed what hit the Pentagon. Certainly the people at the top were and are privy to the crime and cover up. Just like with JFK.

    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Yes, of course he was

    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not your local channel seven, but the media as it's controlled from the top, and lie about EVERTYING. Yes Fred, that media was complicit. And still are. And are the ones that are going to hand the reins of this nations to Hillary Clinton. That media, you betcha.

    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?
     
    of course not. There again you're being silly Fred.

    what America should do is the same thing is should (and still needs to) do as regards the other cowardly and treacherous false flag that *elements* in the Israeli government and security forces were responsible for- the attack on the USS Liberty. We should have a real investigation that ferrets out these uber-criminals and brings them to justice.

    911 was a coup to turn the US into Israel's rabid dog in the Levant. And create a police state for any Americans that object, even with our very own torture camp. Isn't that something?

    You should write about it someday Fred. I can't think of a person more suited to mock the American idea of the free and the brave running a torture camp for goat herders and Afghans who don't want America making them free too.

    as for 911, all you have to know is that building seven was an obvious controlled demolition. From there it doesn't matter if George Dubya Bush was in on it or what type of materials specifically were used to bring the buildings down. That shit is all academic. We know they lied, and are lying. Only a deluded fool or moral coward (or worse) would pretend to themselves otherwise once he's seen the irrefutable evidence that they're lying.

    Hi Rurik,

    We are on the same side here, of course, but I really do have to re-iterate something that I have already been trying to communicate for some time now.

    The people on our side of the debate must stop adopting a passive approach. In the above, Freddy boy outlines a series of questions and you dutifully answer said questions. In other words, you immediately cede the initiative. Now, okay, you ask him some questions, but you know he’s not going to answer, that’s not how it works. He will either disappear or just ask some more asinine questions.

    No, it must be established up front that if you answer his questions, he must answer yours. Thus, when he asks the question of whether Larry Silverstein was in on it, you must establish that he, the defender of the official story must answer the question of whether Osama Bin Laden was behind the attacks, also were the Taliban in on it. And if that is the case, then he must outline the evidence. So this is very poor tactically:

    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___

    Yes, of course he was

    I believe you should say: “In my opinion, Larry Silverstein was in on it, yes. Apparently, you believe that these attacks were orchestrated by Osama Bin Laden from faroff Afghanistan. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) If that is so, could you outline for me what the strongest evidence for that is?

    You cannot accept a situation in which you must continually answer his (mostly asinine) questions and there is no onus on the other side side (on Freddy boy in this case, but it’s not specifically about him) to answer any question of yours. They continually play this game and get away with it.

    It’s like I said in a previous essay, it’s like a game of tennis in which your opponent always gets to serve, and then, even if you execute a perfect return of serve, they just ignore that, and grab a ball and serve again, without conceding the previous point.

    I called this “blowhard tactics” and, if you haven’t figured it out by now, Freddy boy is one major league blowhard — though he’s not the only one!

    I know that self-observation is a difficult thing, but please consider what I’m saying, Rurik. You really really should develop an approach that is less reactive and try to put somebody like Freddy boy here in a position where he has to answer your questions. Okay, I know that Fred is not honest and he won’t engage in an honest discussion, so if you ask him any pointed questions, like what the evidence is that OBL was behind it, he’ll just walk away, but we establish this at least. We establish that the guy is dishonest and then once that is established, we can finally just stop pretending that he is and the gloves damned well come off… your approach takes us around in circles basically.

    Please think about what I’m trying to tell you.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    You cannot accept a situation in which you must continually answer his (mostly asinine) questions and there is no onus on the other side side ...

    it’s like a game of tennis in which your opponent always gets to serve

    ask him any pointed questions, like what the evidence is that OBL was behind it, he’ll just walk away
     
    I agree with what you're saying JR

    we are on the maligned and marginalized side here. We are trying to speak truth to power, and that's always a one way street. But they have the power, and I guess I'm not really trying to engage them personally, I'm trying to reach the lurkers and people of good will who're honestly trying to figure out what really happened. If Fred or others are vested in the system that keeps them in the dark, then you're right, I'm not going to get him to change his mind. But I'm not really trying to. Just tying to point out how utterly preposterous and asinine his position is.

    And there's another thing I think we should always try to keep in mind. Just as you and others were once convinced that the official version was the truth, there are legions of people out there who're honest and well-intentioned who simply haven't' given any of this much thought. Most people have never even heard of building seven! They've marinated in the false narrative for fifteen years now, and you can't expect them to watch one video and come to the (horrifying) conclusion that the people Americans trust the most to protect them, are murderers and psychopaths who kill and lie with pure indifference. That's one hell of a pill to swallow JR, and sometimes you think people are being dishonest or daft, when they're only trying to maintain the foundations under their world view. Sure they dissemble and rationalize, but it's not always because they're in on it, or are necessarily too stupid to see the obvious, (as it seems to us). It's just that their entire world and reality would come unglued if they seriously entertained the notion that these guys actually were *that* fucking evil. Indeed, the men who perpetrated this thing were counting on that very human and very recognized proclivity and failing. That's the whole thing behind the Big Lie, the idea that the bigger it is, the more likely people are to believe it.

    So I have to check myself when I'm dealing with people like this, and have to use a sort of psychological divining rod to glimmer those who're lying shills from those who're innocently and hopelessly deluded.
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  83. peacenik says:
    @Marcus
    Troofers, like JFK conspiracy theorists, are small-minded people who believe that history has to unfold in a "logical" fashion, or something must be very wrong: a loser like Oswald can't assassinate the leader of the free world, "Arabs with boxcutters" can't be responsible for 9/11, etc. hence "weight" has to be added to the perpetrators: they were patsies of a larger satanic plot of the CIA, the Vatican, etc.

    First, check out this video:

    Now, I put it to you that the only “small-minded” people and cowards are those who still insist they see an apple when it is clearing an orange that is in front of their eyes!

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  84. Rurik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse
     
    A disproportionate amount of the C-Theory hinges on Bldg. 7, so Bldg. 7 collapse as "unexplained" is being vociferously claimed and defended by C-Theorists.

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden. In fact, the frequently pointed-to external steel framing of the WTC was intended, partially, as prevention of the supposedly unlikely event of just such a fire. It worked, almost, in that the vertical collapse as the corner welds popped prevented extreme additional destruction to adjacent buildings. Can you imagine the death and calamity on the streets below, had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally? New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

    New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

    perhaps the most cynical thing I’ve ever read (and that’s saying a lot!)

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known,

    it happens all the time! [never] except on 9/11

    but it was so certain to happen on 9/11 that they knew it would even before it did!

    I’ve posted this for you before

    perhaps Fred Reed can watch it too

    like the Israelis setting up their cameras to “document” the attack that day, this video is proof of foreknowledge of the controlled demolition of building seven

    for all the simpletons out there, for them to know the building was going to come down, it had to have been wired for a CD. Period. There’s no wiggle room here folks

    and they weren’t the only msm that fucked up and reported on the building falling before it did, the BBC did the same thing.

    Now please use your noggins and ask yourself how they could have known that this building was going to implode, when nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the world, before or since?

    even today anyone can watch that building collapse and see that it was brought down

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith


    New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

     

    perhaps the most cynical thing I’ve ever read (and that’s saying a lot!)
     
    Why, thanks! That's quite a compliment, and I wasn't even trying. What was Bierce's Devil's Dictionary entry? Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.

    I'm guessing you don't think there's anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?
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  85. @John Jeremiah Smith

    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse
     
    A disproportionate amount of the C-Theory hinges on Bldg. 7, so Bldg. 7 collapse as "unexplained" is being vociferously claimed and defended by C-Theorists.

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden. In fact, the frequently pointed-to external steel framing of the WTC was intended, partially, as prevention of the supposedly unlikely event of just such a fire. It worked, almost, in that the vertical collapse as the corner welds popped prevented extreme additional destruction to adjacent buildings. Can you imagine the death and calamity on the streets below, had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally? New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known,

    Can you name a single case where this happened excluding 9/11/2001?

    And I mean specifically: the integral collapse of a steel framed skyscraper from uncontrolled fire in a way that is visually identical to a controlled demolition? When and where did this happen?

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  86. peacenik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse
     
    A disproportionate amount of the C-Theory hinges on Bldg. 7, so Bldg. 7 collapse as "unexplained" is being vociferously claimed and defended by C-Theorists.

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden. In fact, the frequently pointed-to external steel framing of the WTC was intended, partially, as prevention of the supposedly unlikely event of just such a fire. It worked, almost, in that the vertical collapse as the corner welds popped prevented extreme additional destruction to adjacent buildings. Can you imagine the death and calamity on the streets below, had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally? New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

    “That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden.”

    You are a bare-faced liar!

    The truth is . . .

    “. . . neither before nor since 9/11 have fires caused
    the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise—nor has
    any other natural event, with the exception of the 1985
    Mexico City earthquake, which toppled a 21-story office
    building . . .”

    Source: http://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    “. . . neither before nor since 9/11 have fires caused
    the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise
     
    If you intend to contradict my statement, then contradict my statement. I wrote: "“That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable".

    At no point in time have I written that such an event has taken place in a high-rise building. High-rise building fires are not commonplace, and fire-caused collapse of a high-rise building even less so. However, if you wish to read the NIST report on the collapse of Bldg. 7, it is available. Go find it. I do not fetch for shouting, angry conspiracy theorists.
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  87. Phil,

    Although I appreciate what you want to accomplish in your heart , but as St. Augustine once said, “the flesh” & keeping it intact prevents you from doing so.

    Your opening about the greater good will of Jill Stein was good, but you’d be much better served by noting the wealthy and influential who act with absolute POWER to stop any serious reopening of the 9-11 murder case.

    Also, as a commentator recommended (above), it’s difficult for me to think you’re unaware of Christopher Bollyn’s careful research and findings codified in his book “Solving 9-11.”

    The 9-11 mass murder will remain a “Closed Case” until truly great American patriot journalists/intellectuals/mass of Average Joe’s unite to place their jobs & lives on-the-line for apprehension of the MSM insulated criminals. (Note: Forget the majority of U.S. politicians because they care more for their “flesh” than their “souls”)

    “Open case”

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    • Replies: @L.K
    "Also, as a commentator recommended (above), it’s difficult for me to think you’re unaware of Christopher Bollyn’s careful research and findings codified in his book “Solving 9-11.”

    Yes, particularly since I myself, as well as others, have posted links to Bollyn's work in the comment section of Giraldi's articles before.

    Again;

    The online and free version of the book can be found @
    http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

    Solving 9-11: The Deception That Changed the World Paperback – April 12, 2012
    by Christopher Lee Bollyn
    https://www.amazon.com/Solving-9-11-Deception-Changed-World/dp/0985322586/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475962308&sr=8-1&keywords=solving+the+9-11+deception

    Mr.Bollyn paid quite a price for investigating the massive evidence of Israeli involvement in the 9-11 terror attacks. For example, after he started investigating an Israeli military's aviation company spawned in the U.S, the aircraft leasing company ATASCO, he soon got into trouble; A few hours after talking to Shalom Yoran, the Israeli chairman of this now defunct Israeli company, Bollyn was paid a visit by three unidentified police officers, who:

    " arrived at my house and, without cause or provocation, TASERed me and broke my elbow in front of my family on August 15, 2006."

     

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  88. For those just coming into the 911 Truth movement, you should probably look at the hard evidence first to see if it merits further consideration. After that, you can go to he circumstantial evidence.

    Start with the physics and engineering:

    The question isn’t whether this theory or that theory is absolutely correct. The question is whether there is sufficient cause for a new investigation. I never hear a good argument from the anti-Truth crowd as to why we shouldn’t have another investigation.

    We want a new investigation. They don’t want one. Why?

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  89. @Anonymous
    This article follows the lines drawn by yesterday Unz's.

    Revusky-like attitudes, although undeniably passion-fueled, lead to little.

    What people like you (and I have fallen for it too many times, too) fail to understand, Jonathan, is that your target is deeply consistently propagandized people who see their manipulators as absolutely trustworthy sources of information and you (plural) as an angry, petulant, outsider making strange claims.

    Now, strange brings to stranger, and the reason why the same word means both "suspicious" and "foreigner" is because, well, the two ideas come together.

    People will be suspicious of new views and ideas.
    You have to grasp what it is like not to grasp something.
    Ever read Bernays?

    I agree they are propagandized and they don’t have a frame of reference to understand where we are coming from. Besides appealing to their prejudices I don’t see how one could change their opinion besides providing them with documents made available to the public. I think the released DIA report on the West and the Gulf states supporting a Salafist Principality would be more easily to swallow than videos about 9/11 arguing that it was demolition. One thing the DIA report and Wikileaks material came from the beast itself.

    I don’t think 9/11 was a coup. It was a new raison d’etre for our rulers. The coup happened a long time ago, during the cold war or before. The cold war ended and we had rogue states all over the place all of a sudden, and the US went to fight them to Pat Buchanan’s dismay.

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  90. @woodNfish
    Trump has been saying he will drain the DC swamp.

    Sending the steel to China to get rid of the evidence is not unlike the government's bulldozing of the still smouldering remains of the Branch Davidian massacre in Waco Texas after torturing the members and their children 24 hours a day for 83 days.

    Waco was a horrible crime.

    We should get on twitter and ask Donald Trump if he will charge them for treason, and whatever else that would be feasible to punish their treachery. I hope he does it. We all need to encourage him on it.

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    • Replies: @woodNfish
    It was a horrible crime and it is was a turning point for me and my personal relationship with this country which I have now disowned. But was it treason? It was definitely a crime against humanity and I would like to see every government and private thug responsible (including Clinton and his head bitch Janet Reno) on trial at the Hague, but only if it ended in their executions for the crime. None of them should be spared the ultimate penalty.
    , @utu
    "Waco was a horrible crime." - Yes, it was. This crime is reenacted daily on installments. About 1000 people are killed by police with impunity every year. What's the difference? Americans are used to it and desensitized. Authorities have right to kill people in America.
    , @Carroll Price
    I understand and agree with the coup thing, but in reality, numerous coups have occurred over the past 140 years. With the 1st and most important coup being Lincoln's 1861 invasion of the Southern States that effectively destroyed constitutional law. Which, in turn set the stage for several other government sponsored coups, such as the 1913, Federal Reserve Act during Christmas recess, JFK's 1963 assassination, and 9/11 being among the most important and most obvious. Not to mention several obvious Black Ops operations that have occurred since 9/11.
    https://revisedhistory.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/the-real-coup-was-in-1861/
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  91. Rurik says:
    @Jonathan Revusky
    Hi Rurik,

    We are on the same side here, of course, but I really do have to re-iterate something that I have already been trying to communicate for some time now.

    The people on our side of the debate must stop adopting a passive approach. In the above, Freddy boy outlines a series of questions and you dutifully answer said questions. In other words, you immediately cede the initiative. Now, okay, you ask him some questions, but you know he's not going to answer, that's not how it works. He will either disappear or just ask some more asinine questions.

    No, it must be established up front that if you answer his questions, he must answer yours. Thus, when he asks the question of whether Larry Silverstein was in on it, you must establish that he, the defender of the official story must answer the question of whether Osama Bin Laden was behind the attacks, also were the Taliban in on it. And if that is the case, then he must outline the evidence. So this is very poor tactically:



    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Yes, of course he was
     
    I believe you should say: "In my opinion, Larry Silverstein was in on it, yes. Apparently, you believe that these attacks were orchestrated by Osama Bin Laden from faroff Afghanistan. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) If that is so, could you outline for me what the strongest evidence for that is?

    You cannot accept a situation in which you must continually answer his (mostly asinine) questions and there is no onus on the other side side (on Freddy boy in this case, but it's not specifically about him) to answer any question of yours. They continually play this game and get away with it.

    It's like I said in a previous essay, it's like a game of tennis in which your opponent always gets to serve, and then, even if you execute a perfect return of serve, they just ignore that, and grab a ball and serve again, without conceding the previous point.

    I called this "blowhard tactics" and, if you haven't figured it out by now, Freddy boy is one major league blowhard -- though he's not the only one!

    I know that self-observation is a difficult thing, but please consider what I'm saying, Rurik. You really really should develop an approach that is less reactive and try to put somebody like Freddy boy here in a position where he has to answer your questions. Okay, I know that Fred is not honest and he won't engage in an honest discussion, so if you ask him any pointed questions, like what the evidence is that OBL was behind it, he'll just walk away, but we establish this at least. We establish that the guy is dishonest and then once that is established, we can finally just stop pretending that he is and the gloves damned well come off... your approach takes us around in circles basically.

    Please think about what I'm trying to tell you.

    You cannot accept a situation in which you must continually answer his (mostly asinine) questions and there is no onus on the other side side …

    it’s like a game of tennis in which your opponent always gets to serve

    ask him any pointed questions, like what the evidence is that OBL was behind it, he’ll just walk away

    I agree with what you’re saying JR

    we are on the maligned and marginalized side here. We are trying to speak truth to power, and that’s always a one way street. But they have the power, and I guess I’m not really trying to engage them personally, I’m trying to reach the lurkers and people of good will who’re honestly trying to figure out what really happened. If Fred or others are vested in the system that keeps them in the dark, then you’re right, I’m not going to get him to change his mind. But I’m not really trying to. Just tying to point out how utterly preposterous and asinine his position is.

    And there’s another thing I think we should always try to keep in mind. Just as you and others were once convinced that the official version was the truth, there are legions of people out there who’re honest and well-intentioned who simply haven’t’ given any of this much thought. Most people have never even heard of building seven! They’ve marinated in the false narrative for fifteen years now, and you can’t expect them to watch one video and come to the (horrifying) conclusion that the people Americans trust the most to protect them, are murderers and psychopaths who kill and lie with pure indifference. That’s one hell of a pill to swallow JR, and sometimes you think people are being dishonest or daft, when they’re only trying to maintain the foundations under their world view. Sure they dissemble and rationalize, but it’s not always because they’re in on it, or are necessarily too stupid to see the obvious, (as it seems to us). It’s just that their entire world and reality would come unglued if they seriously entertained the notion that these guys actually were *that* fucking evil. Indeed, the men who perpetrated this thing were counting on that very human and very recognized proclivity and failing. That’s the whole thing behind the Big Lie, the idea that the bigger it is, the more likely people are to believe it.

    So I have to check myself when I’m dealing with people like this, and have to use a sort of psychological divining rod to glimmer those who’re lying shills from those who’re innocently and hopelessly deluded.

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  92. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    People who lack:

    the scientific and technical chops to seriously assess how buildings collapse or how a large passenger airliner might be completely consumed by a fire

    but who nevertheless claim to have a useful view of what lay behind 9/11 are either part of the ignorant mass that never will understand what’s going on in the world (as one would expect of an American intelligence expert), or an agent of cognitive infiltration intent on spreading confusion.

    The discussion of 9/11 is, for all useful purposes, over. We, that is to say those who can reason logically and who understand basic physics, know that the Twin Towers were brought down with explosives, and that is all that a citizen of a supposedly democratic country needs to know. The World is now waiting to see whether the Clinton/Bush NeoCon conspirators responsible for the 1993 and 2001 attacks on the WTC will ever be brought to justice. But, the World is not holding its breath.

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  93. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    As for a new investigation of the 9/11 False Flag, forget it, who will do the investigating?

    The FBI, who’s in bed–yuck–with Hillary?

    The CIA, one of if not the biggest illegal drug dealer in the world, specializing in Afghan heroin?

    Our government, which has been taken over by a motley collection of thieves, professional liars, mass murderers and traitors?

    Either we do something about this travesty or get used to our new Gitmo type arrangements. Try explaining to your kids and grandkids what freedom once was when they’ve been under the lash.

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  94. woodNfish says:
    @Johnny F. Ive
    Waco was a horrible crime.

    We should get on twitter and ask Donald Trump if he will charge them for treason, and whatever else that would be feasible to punish their treachery. I hope he does it. We all need to encourage him on it.

    It was a horrible crime and it is was a turning point for me and my personal relationship with this country which I have now disowned. But was it treason? It was definitely a crime against humanity and I would like to see every government and private thug responsible (including Clinton and his head bitch Janet Reno) on trial at the Hague, but only if it ended in their executions for the crime. None of them should be spared the ultimate penalty.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    Also Ruby Ridge: Randy Weaver's wife, infant son, and even dog killed by the FBI as retaliation for him refusing to be an informant.
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  95. @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 truthers couldn't even get it right on the physics-engineering behind the collapse of the Twin Towers. If they can't get this right...everything else that comes after-ignore.


    But I'll mention one thing that comes after the worthless 9/11 Truther sewage about the collapse TT. The Pentagon's Bio-indentifivation scientific team as able to identified through DNA testing the remains of people who died on the jet that slammed into the Pentagon.The 9/11 Truthers shriek:"THEY ARE ARE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY ALSO"....the same group of men women who identify they remains of US soldiers who died in Vietnam via DNA testing....They must be lying about this also.



    Take your pick:9/11 Truthers are 1)psychotic delusions....or 2)repellant sociopaths with a very nasty political agenda.....these are the only two options.

    Nobody on this board knows exactly how the THREE towers came down, who did it, or the motivation behind it. A Boeing 757 with a 124′ wingspan certainly did not hit the Pentagon, nor did one crash in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania – this is blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes.

    Anyone who actually believes the official story is a fool of epic proportions, or most likely, deluded. Quoting the Pentagon as a credible source is especially hilarious.

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    • Replies: @Old fogey
    Pardon me, but 7 (seven) buildings were demolished, all of which had the designation WTC on their names. None (zero) of the buildings surrounding the site were destroyed, though one was damaged seriously. The carefully-designed "bathtub" under the towers, which kept the water from the harbor from damaging that very expensive part of lower Manhattan, was also not damaged. The precision of the destruction was amazing. I commend Judy Wood for the work she has done on these matters.
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  96. Art says:

    The signatories of the neocon Project for the New American Century paper observed that was needed was a catalyst to produce a public demand to “do something,” that “something” being an event comparable to Pearl Harbor. Seventeen signatories of the document wound up in senior positions in the Bush Administration.

    Hmm — do you believe in coincidences?

    Hmm — all those people in high places who want something to happen – then it happens – Gosh – Gee Willickers – do you think?

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  97. edNels says:
    @The Alarmist

    "I am now convinced that a new 9/11 Commission is in order, one that is not run and guided by the government itself. If it can be demonstrated that the attacks carried out on that day were quite possibly set up by major figures both inside and outside the political establishment it might produce such a powerful reaction that the public would demand a reversal of the laws and policies that have so gravely damaged our republic. "
     
    One problem is that Truthers, even if they are ultimately proven right about a conspiracy, will never be anything more than keyboard kommandos. There have to be at least a million of them, and if they put their money where their mouths and fingers are, they would mass on the National Mall and bring about regime change of some sort.

    But it's cold/hot/rainy/sunny in DC, so that would be too much discomfort for them, and so we labour on in our newfound gulag.

    Oh BS!

    they would mass on the National Mall and bring about regime change of some sort.

    Just remember back to the ”Bonus Army” the ww1 vets who amassed in DC to demand the bonus they were promised. Only to be fired on by McArthurs troops, some killed and run off.

    Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were.

    All communications would be stopped there in the location, News would be blacked out, and some sort of cover story would be fabricated. The million plus would be history… they’d pulverize em and flush em down a sewer. Then they might put in a call to Zellicow for a committee to tune up some myths.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were.
     
    Worse. The enormous intelligence apparatus that is the US government's enforcement operation would identify all participants, and either "disappear" all records of their existence on earth, or smear them as traitors.
    , @The Alarmist

    "Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were."
     
    Well, it would surely make it clear what our nation has become if that were to happen. So what you're saying is, "I'm outgunned, so I volunteer to give up my liberty without even protesting."

    What is the point about whining about 911 truth then?
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  98. Marcus says:
    @woodNfish
    It was a horrible crime and it is was a turning point for me and my personal relationship with this country which I have now disowned. But was it treason? It was definitely a crime against humanity and I would like to see every government and private thug responsible (including Clinton and his head bitch Janet Reno) on trial at the Hague, but only if it ended in their executions for the crime. None of them should be spared the ultimate penalty.

    Also Ruby Ridge: Randy Weaver’s wife, infant son, and even dog killed by the FBI as retaliation for him refusing to be an informant.

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    • Replies: @woodNfish
    Yes, I haven't forgotten them either. I also haven't forgotten the attempt at revenge by McVeigh.
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  99. @Robert Magill
    Dr. Judy Wood
    'nuf said.

    http://robertmagill.wordpress.com

    I found her website several years ago – very thought-provoking stuff indeed. One does have to wonder where all that concrete and steel went, because the resulting pile of rubble didn’t contain it. Also of interest are the many photos of the dozens of randomly toasted cars all over the place.

    One thing I always remind myself is that by definition, the ratio of what we don’t know to what we do know is infinity : 1.

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  100. woodNfish says:
    @Marcus
    Also Ruby Ridge: Randy Weaver's wife, infant son, and even dog killed by the FBI as retaliation for him refusing to be an informant.

    Yes, I haven’t forgotten them either. I also haven’t forgotten the attempt at revenge by McVeigh.

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  101. Art says:

    Hmm?

    Besides the possibility that Calley and Iskandar’s ID cards and credit cards were planted by the FBI, a similar question has been ignored by the state sponsored press and authorities the day after 9/11 when miraculously the unscathed passport of Satam Al Suqami, one of the alleged 19 Arab terrorists, turned up several blocks from Ground Zero.

    Although ABC News and the Associated Press played up the importance of the Suqami passport, linking 9/11 to the Arab hijackers, serious questions were never raised in the press or by the 9/11 Commission as to the credibility and authenticity of the find.

    http://rense.com/general68/mrev.htm

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  102. Ivy says:
    @dahoit
    No way you are a Smith.You are a Shomer.
    Everything you spew reveals it.By deception they rule.
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  103. @peacenik
    "That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden."


    You are a bare-faced liar!

    The truth is . . .

    ". . . neither before nor since 9/11 have fires caused
    the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise—nor has
    any other natural event, with the exception of the 1985
    Mexico City earthquake, which toppled a 21-story office
    building . . ."

    Source: http://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/pdf/2016/04/epn2016474p21.pdf

    “. . . neither before nor since 9/11 have fires caused
    the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise

    If you intend to contradict my statement, then contradict my statement. I wrote: ““That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable”.

    At no point in time have I written that such an event has taken place in a high-rise building. High-rise building fires are not commonplace, and fire-caused collapse of a high-rise building even less so. However, if you wish to read the NIST report on the collapse of Bldg. 7, it is available. Go find it. I do not fetch for shouting, angry conspiracy theorists.

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    • Replies: @peacenik
    "That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known . . ."

    Well-known?! Really?! On what evidence do you base your statement? You are just making things up . . . so I will say it again: you are a bare-faced liar!
    , @Stonehands

    At no point in time have I written that such an event has taken place in a high-rise building. High-rise building fires are not commonplace, and fire-caused collapse of a high-rise building even less so. However, if you wish to read the NIST report on the collapse of Bldg. 7, it is available. Go find it. I do not fetch for shouting, angry conspiracy theorists.
     
    My Gawd...you are so full of shite!

    Slick Willies got nothing on you!
    , @Paul C.
    JJS,

    There has been plenty of severe high rise fires in steel skyscrapers. Many would be described as infernos that lasted 24 hours and burnt everything, but the steel frame still stood.

    http://www.serendipity.li/wot/other_fires/other_fires.htm

    Never has a steel frame structure collapsed from fire except on 9/11. Stop believing everything your gov't and media tells you and start researching and thinking for yourself. It's the only way forward. And then start spreading the truth.
    , @restless94110
    You wrote that buildings can come down from fires.

    But they can not and never have and never will.

    So what you wrote is nonsense.

    I am contradicting your statement. Building can not come down from fires.
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  104. Dot says:

    “When it comes to 9/11, I have been reluctant to enter the fray largely because I do not have the scientific and technical chops to seriously assess how buildings collapse or how a large passenger airliner might be completely consumed by a fire.”
    Do you really need “scientific or technical chops” to analyze why Building 7 collapsed? That’s the smoking gun they call a ‘no brainer’.

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Do you really need “scientific or technical chops” to analyze why Building 7 collapsed? That’s the smoking gun they call a ‘no brainer’.
     
    Analyzing the collapse of WTC7 is not a no-brainer, rather it's a matter of Newtonian physics, something one might expect Fred to boast of understanding, but which he has to pretend to think in this case is irrelevant.

    So, sure, the collapse of WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition, but it's the dynamics that prove it.
    , @MarkinLA
    The problem with all this "analysis" is that there is a lot of kinetic energy released by the collapsing buildings (WTC1 and 2) and nobody has any way to determine where it went and what damage it did. You have no way to estimate the amount of structural damage to the superstructure of the surrounding buildings (WTC 7) as the debris from the large buildings fans out and blows through the lower floors. The lower floors may be compromised to the point that they can no longer carry the weight of the upper floor and that is why the building would collapse from the bottom up.
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  105. @edNels
    Oh BS!

    they would mass on the National Mall and bring about regime change of some sort.
     
    Just remember back to the ''Bonus Army'' the ww1 vets who amassed in DC to demand the bonus they were promised. Only to be fired on by McArthurs troops, some killed and run off.

    Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were.

    All communications would be stopped there in the location, News would be blacked out, and some sort of cover story would be fabricated. The million plus would be history… they'd pulverize em and flush em down a sewer. Then they might put in a call to Zellicow for a committee to tune up some myths.

    Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were.

    Worse. The enormous intelligence apparatus that is the US government’s enforcement operation would identify all participants, and either “disappear” all records of their existence on earth, or smear them as traitors.

    Read More
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  106. edNels says:
    @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    Do we get to select a few to answer?

    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition?

    yes_X__no___Don’t know___
    Call a spade a spade, has anybody not seen video or first hand observed controlled demolition? What’s it look like to ya Buckwheat?

    Did aircraft hit the the Towers?

    yes_X__no___Don’t know___
    surplus aircraft painted, dolled up, refitted and remotely controlled. That really doesn’t stress ones imagination does it? though to say it out loud is UnPC.

    If so, who flew them?

    __ Pobably some doofus kid that thought he was playing a new computer game, only it wasn’t.__________ Don’t know__

    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together

    That’s real simple, one was to do the job and the other was to make a dramatic show piece appearance to hide the other, as obvious as it was, and it works pretty damned good too, for those who can’t think out the box…!

    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.

    That’s over my ”pay grade” Jackson. But suffice it to say, a lot less than you think, when there’s attention to detail about how and where the placement is optimized by … those who know, aided by unlimited funds to accomplish it. The of the best if twisted minds, could do it, and again use of deceptive cover operations like retrofitting the ”fire retardants in the void areas where access to main columns and other structures could be had.

    Additionallyt a point of interest is that you apparently had a group of very questionable ”Live work” artists” with 24/7 access who were on a video making a wooden porch out of a window high up, and having photos made from a (rented helicopter), nice if you can pull a permit for that, don’t you think?

    As for sources here, it all comes from a mellange of videos, comments, common sense, and hypothetical extropolations yet to be defined per se.

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  107. @Rurik

    New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.
     
    perhaps the most cynical thing I've ever read (and that's saying a lot!)

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known,
     
    it happens all the time! [never] except on 9/11

    but it was so certain to happen on 9/11 that they knew it would even before it did!

    I've posted this for you before

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOVnvFl5jZo

    perhaps Fred Reed can watch it too

    like the Israelis setting up their cameras to "document" the attack that day, this video is proof of foreknowledge of the controlled demolition of building seven

    for all the simpletons out there, for them to know the building was going to come down, it had to have been wired for a CD. Period. There's no wiggle room here folks

    and they weren't the only msm that fucked up and reported on the building falling before it did, the BBC did the same thing.

    Now please use your noggins and ask yourself how they could have known that this building was going to implode, when nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the world, before or since?

    even today anyone can watch that building collapse and see that it was brought down

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJBUedWFJ40

    New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

    perhaps the most cynical thing I’ve ever read (and that’s saying a lot!)

    Why, thanks! That’s quite a compliment, and I wasn’t even trying. What was Bierce’s Devil’s Dictionary entry? Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.

    I’m guessing you don’t think there’s anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?
     
    it depends on which one you're talking about..

    the conspiracy theory that has Osama and his nineteen henchmen doing 9/11 or the conspiracy theory that has elements at the highest levels of the Pentagon and Fecal government doing 9/11. Both are conspiracy theories, so which conspiracy theory do you adhere to?
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  108. Miro23 says:

    A key to instant identification of the faith-based C-theorist is the loud claim that “steel-framed buildings” don’t collapse as a result of fire. Fact is, yes they do — known, verified, fully-explained using real, verifiable data.

    Here’s a list of steel framed high rises and other high rises that experienced major fires:

    – One New York Plaza, New York. 50 stories steel. Dropped beams on 33rd & 34th floors.
    – Alexis Nihon Plaza, Montreal. 15 stories steel. Partial collapse on 11th floor.
    – Windsor Tower, Madrid. 29 stories steel/concrete. Partial collapse.
    – One Meridian Plaza, Philadelphia. 38 stories. No collapse.
    – Broadgate Phase 8, London. 14 stories. No collapse.
    – First Interstate Bank, Los Angeles. 62 stories. No collapse.
    – MGM Grand Hotel, Las Vegas. 26 stories. No collapse.
    – Joelma Building, Sao Paulo. 25 stories. No collapse.
    – Andraus Building, Sao Paulo. 31 stories. No collapse.

    These fires were much longer lasting and more intense than the WTC fires and none of these buildings experienced a complete collapse.
    Can you give a list of modern steel frame 20 storey+ buildings similar to WTC 1, 2 & 7 that have experienced a complete collapse due to fire – known and verified.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mark F.
    No, because the 2 WTC collapses were the first ones. So what? None of those other buildings had huge jets filled with fuel flying into them. To say the other fires were "similar" is false.

    Please explain how explosives were planted without anyone noticing. Any demolition expert can tell you that planting enough explosives to take down a huge building takes a long time and involves a lot of people doing stuff that is not easily hidden.

    And why bother with flying planes into the buildings if they are already going to come down with explosives? If "everyone knows" that planes flying into buildings can't cause them to collapse, why do it? Just blow up the buildings. You would have killed many more people doing that.
    , @MarkinLA
    On thing you are forgetting is that there was a huge mass above the impact point on both WTC1 and WTC2. There likely would have been no collapse if the plane had just hit the top 4 floors of the buildings. The failure was caused by a huge mass above the impact point acting as a battering ram on the floors below the impact point. The kinetic energy of an object is multiplied by its velocity squared so the power of that ram was such that nothing was going to stop it once it got moving.
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  109. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    Poor Fred. Has to scrape a living as a pathetic agent of cognitive infiltration, muddying the waters over 9/11.

    The answer to Fred’s silly questions, incidentally, is this: No, you don’t have to be an anti-Semite to say that three WTC buildings were destroyed on 9/11 with explosives.

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  110. MarkinLA says:
    @John McFarland
    This is not rocket science or a John Le Carre novel. All you have to know is that the buildings were destroyed by controlled demolitions. To confirm this, just find videos of Vegas hotels and the like being taken down. The buildings came down just slightly slower than free fall, which required that hundreds of eighty story high metal supports from which the rest of the buildings hung were destroyed all the way down, story by story, just ahead of the mass right above them. You do this by setting thermite charges in the building, story by story, and control the process by computer. How this was all done is a matter about which reasonable men can differ. That it was done is undeniable, and any rational effort to unravel the whole business has to start there.

    In a controlled demolition the charges do not actually bring down the building. That is why there is a delay between the charges going off and the building collapsing. The charges weaken the superstructure just enough that the building can no longer stand and gravity brings the building down. There are usually cross members installed to help pull the outer walls into the center so there is less chance of debris going off-site. Gravity is what brought the WTC down. Instead of a bunch of small charges it was the force of a massive battering ram raining down on the lower floors of the building.

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    it was the force of a massive battering ram raining down on the lower floors of the building.
     
    Another misconception, based on an ignorance of so-called "high-school physics" which few Americans seem to have learned in high school.

    The "massive battering ram," i.e., the section of the building above the point of aircraft impact, disintegrated in the first moments of the collapse under the equal and opposite action upon it of the structure below.

    , @restless94110
    No, it was not a massive battering ram from above.

    The laws of physics decree that if there was only weight from above, the kinetic energy created would be neutralized in mid-fall. The building would remain standing, though partially collapsed on the very upper floors.

    Your theory is no substantiated by physicists and engineers.

    Check your ignorance and re-adjust your "theory" to that of controlled demolition.
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  111. Mark F. says:
    @Miro23

    A key to instant identification of the faith-based C-theorist is the loud claim that “steel-framed buildings” don’t collapse as a result of fire. Fact is, yes they do — known, verified, fully-explained using real, verifiable data.
     
    Here's a list of steel framed high rises and other high rises that experienced major fires:

    - One New York Plaza, New York. 50 stories steel. Dropped beams on 33rd & 34th floors.
    - Alexis Nihon Plaza, Montreal. 15 stories steel. Partial collapse on 11th floor.
    - Windsor Tower, Madrid. 29 stories steel/concrete. Partial collapse.
    - One Meridian Plaza, Philadelphia. 38 stories. No collapse.
    - Broadgate Phase 8, London. 14 stories. No collapse.
    - First Interstate Bank, Los Angeles. 62 stories. No collapse.
    - MGM Grand Hotel, Las Vegas. 26 stories. No collapse.
    - Joelma Building, Sao Paulo. 25 stories. No collapse.
    - Andraus Building, Sao Paulo. 31 stories. No collapse.

    These fires were much longer lasting and more intense than the WTC fires and none of these buildings experienced a complete collapse.
    Can you give a list of modern steel frame 20 storey+ buildings similar to WTC 1, 2 & 7 that have experienced a complete collapse due to fire - known and verified.

    No, because the 2 WTC collapses were the first ones. So what? None of those other buildings had huge jets filled with fuel flying into them. To say the other fires were “similar” is false.

    Please explain how explosives were planted without anyone noticing. Any demolition expert can tell you that planting enough explosives to take down a huge building takes a long time and involves a lot of people doing stuff that is not easily hidden.

    And why bother with flying planes into the buildings if they are already going to come down with explosives? If “everyone knows” that planes flying into buildings can’t cause them to collapse, why do it? Just blow up the buildings. You would have killed many more people doing that.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    All the usual denier rubbish coming out here. Let's take a look at the latest:

    If “everyone knows” that planes flying into buildings can’t cause them to collapse, why do it? Just blow up the buildings. You would have killed many more people doing that.
     
    But practically no one in America does know "that planes flying into buildings can’t cause them to collapse."

    Americans know virtually nothing whatever about Newtonian dynamics, which is why, if you wanted to fake a terrorist attack on New York, you might well consider having "terrorists" fly planes into buildings, while insuring that the buildings collapse by the detonation of pre-positioned explosives. But obviously, you cannot just blow the building up, since then you'd be unable to point to the "terrorists" to be framed as the culprits.

    And flying planes into the buildings makes the event so much more horrific, especially with those impossible recorded cell phone calls to Mum, wife or lover, and therefore, so much more effective as a pretext for $6 trillion-and-rising wars of imperial aggression.

    , @eD
    "I have yet to see a single plausible reason why the building had to come down rather than merely be flown into. Care to provide one?"

    On another one of these threads on this site, I raised the possibility that the twin towers (1 and 2 WTC) had been pre-wired for demolition either when they were constructed, or after the 1993 bombing, so that if they were structurally compromised, and there was a possibility that they would topple over onto other buildings in Manhattan, they could be brought down cleanly in their footprints. The evidence for controlled demolition is there because they were demolished that way, but this had always been the plan in the event of another, more successful terrorist attack, but for obvious reasons the authorities don't want this known. On the other hand, 7 World Trade Center was pre-wired for demolition simply because of all the deep state stuff locataed there. Its perfectly possible that real terrorists attacked the World Trade Center AND the authorities brought the structurs down with controlled demolition.

    Likewise real terrorists could have planted a bomb inside the Pentagon, but the government wouldn't want to advertise that terrorists could do that, so the public is fed the story of a plane striking the building.

    Whoever planted the attacks probably was not planning to destroy the World Trade Center itself. As you said, hijacking planes and flying them into skyscrapers creates enough terror in itself. This is true whether they were false flag attacks or actually planned by Islamic terrorists.
    , @restless94110
    No one has to explain to you how people could have put charges in the buildings. You don't need to know how they did it. You just need to understand that buildings can't come down the way those building did from anything other than controlled demoliition.

    And as to why "they" wouldn't have just blown up the buildings? Well, then they would not have been able to blame Muslim terrorists for the collapses?

    Isn't it obvious? What is standing in your way of being able to think straight on this issue?
    , @Wade

    Please explain how explosives were planted without anyone noticing. Any demolition expert can tell you that planting enough explosives to take down a huge building takes a long time and involves a lot of people doing stuff that is not easily hidden.
     
    I understand your point. It seems highly unlikely that something like that could be planned and carried out without there being even one single patriot willing to leak the plans to the authorities so it could be stopped.

    However, it seems to me that your argument cuts both ways. After all, why do controlled demolitions require weeks of planning by demolition experts that have the engineering schematics to the building they want to demolish? Because make a single, tiny mistake, and the building might fall laterally instead of collapsing in on itself. Or, the building might not fall completely at all leaving half the frame structure still standing. So, we can conclude that it's also highly improbable that random debris hitting WT7 and an office fire could cause this building to fall exactly like a controlled demolition. Same thing with WT1 and WT2 which were damn near close to perfect controlled demolitions.
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  112. Ex-Saffer says:
    @TheJester
    There are multiple ways to engineer a "False Flag" attack:

    1. You do it yourself, flying someone else's "flag" and hope no one notices. (Very primitive ... rarely works unless you are a wooden frigate at sea attacking enemy maritime commerce.)

    2. You hire someone else to do it and hope none of them get caught. (Moderately primitive ... but it worked for awhile in the Kennedy assassination.)

    3. You infiltrate a hostile terrorist organization, take control, and redirect it to the attack. (Very difficult to do ... but this was done in the NATO-sponsored Gladio terrorist attacks in Europe in the 1960s as well as the Black Hand attacks that precipitated WWI.)

    4. You infiltrate a hostile terrorist organization, discover what they have planned, and QUIETLY remove all of YOUR obstacles that would otherwise have prevented the attack. (This is the best if you can pull it off since you leave no fingerprints. You might, as in 911, be accused of incompetent but, okay, you missed that one, so what!)

    BTW: #4 doesn't mean you don't help the terrorists with a little demolition work to make sure the spectacle unfolds as planned. You really need grand firework displays in these things to get them the attention they deserve.

    You really need grand firework displays in these things to get them the attention they deserve.

    No, you don’t. Planes flying into skyscrapers and leaving a gaping fiery hole is spectacle enough. If anything, leaving the buildings in that condition standing and visible from miles around is more consistent with a well-thought-out conspiracy: no conspirator would consider the risky and surplus-to-requirements step of mining the buildings. An additional risk, which I’ve yet to hear anyone mention, is the utter unpredictability of what might happen to a building that has been primed to blow when it is struck by a plane travelling at high speed. A jet-fuel-loaded plane could conceivably DISABLE the explosives setup, leaving the building bulging with so much incriminating evidence you might as well just point at it and laugh.

    I have yet to see a single plausible reason why the building had to come down rather than merely be flown into. Care to provide one?

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    No one needs to give you or anyone else a reason that the buildings were brought down, because no one would know that information.

    And because no one can give you a reason why, does not mean anything at all.

    Buildings are not able to fall the way that those building did from fires or from a plane hitting the upper floors.

    The buildings fell in a way that only can be explained by controlled demolition.

    Why "they" did it?

    It doesn't matter. It makes no differnce in this discussion, save for something that should be investigated and gotten to the bottom of.

    Because you can't figure out why it was done? It is meaningless and has no relevance to this discussion whatsoever.
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  113. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Dot
    "When it comes to 9/11, I have been reluctant to enter the fray largely because I do not have the scientific and technical chops to seriously assess how buildings collapse or how a large passenger airliner might be completely consumed by a fire."
    Do you really need "scientific or technical chops" to analyze why Building 7 collapsed? That's the smoking gun they call a 'no brainer'.

    Do you really need “scientific or technical chops” to analyze why Building 7 collapsed? That’s the smoking gun they call a ‘no brainer’.

    Analyzing the collapse of WTC7 is not a no-brainer, rather it’s a matter of Newtonian physics, something one might expect Fred to boast of understanding, but which he has to pretend to think in this case is irrelevant.

    So, sure, the collapse of WTC7 looked like a controlled demolition, but it’s the dynamics that prove it.

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  114. MarkinLA says:
    @Dot
    "When it comes to 9/11, I have been reluctant to enter the fray largely because I do not have the scientific and technical chops to seriously assess how buildings collapse or how a large passenger airliner might be completely consumed by a fire."
    Do you really need "scientific or technical chops" to analyze why Building 7 collapsed? That's the smoking gun they call a 'no brainer'.

    The problem with all this “analysis” is that there is a lot of kinetic energy released by the collapsing buildings (WTC1 and 2) and nobody has any way to determine where it went and what damage it did. You have no way to estimate the amount of structural damage to the superstructure of the surrounding buildings (WTC 7) as the debris from the large buildings fans out and blows through the lower floors. The lower floors may be compromised to the point that they can no longer carry the weight of the upper floor and that is why the building would collapse from the bottom up.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Keep trying, Mark. You've captured the narrative, well done. Now go work on the physics.
    , @restless94110
    There are plenty of engineers, architects and physicists who have amply demonstrated that theere is a way to determine where the knetic energy want and have analyzed what damage it did.

    Physics has a way to estimate the structural damage to the superstructure.

    Everything you have said is ignorant or a lie. Whichever it is, it's not true. Period.

    You are wrong.
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  115. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @MarkinLA
    In a controlled demolition the charges do not actually bring down the building. That is why there is a delay between the charges going off and the building collapsing. The charges weaken the superstructure just enough that the building can no longer stand and gravity brings the building down. There are usually cross members installed to help pull the outer walls into the center so there is less chance of debris going off-site. Gravity is what brought the WTC down. Instead of a bunch of small charges it was the force of a massive battering ram raining down on the lower floors of the building.

    it was the force of a massive battering ram raining down on the lower floors of the building.

    Another misconception, based on an ignorance of so-called “high-school physics” which few Americans seem to have learned in high school.

    The “massive battering ram,” i.e., the section of the building above the point of aircraft impact, disintegrated in the first moments of the collapse under the equal and opposite action upon it of the structure below.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    I wouldn't be talking about ignorance of physics and "equal and opposite action" if I was you. What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it's velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has "disintegrated" or not. The only thing that matters is how much is ejected sideways and no longer lands on the lower floors. From the pictures and all the caterwauling about "it looks like a controlled demolition" there isn't much ejected sideways.

    Let me try and explain what would happen if at the impact point the main superstructure could no longer carry the mass above it. The top part of the building would come down as a unit and the floor above the impact point and the floor below would smash against each other causing a lot of damage to the lower floor. The lower floor still has to carry the weight of the upper floors PLUS the kinetic energy of the part of the building coming down. If it can do so maybe the top part just topples over leaving the lower floors basically intact, or if you are lucky a big useless mess at the top. If it can't that floor is sheared off adding to the mass of the ram and adding to the kinetic energy of the falling mass as well. Now the second floor above the impact point smashes into the mass and it either withstands the load or is also sheared off adding to the mass.
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  116. MarkinLA says:
    @Miro23

    A key to instant identification of the faith-based C-theorist is the loud claim that “steel-framed buildings” don’t collapse as a result of fire. Fact is, yes they do — known, verified, fully-explained using real, verifiable data.
     
    Here's a list of steel framed high rises and other high rises that experienced major fires:

    - One New York Plaza, New York. 50 stories steel. Dropped beams on 33rd & 34th floors.
    - Alexis Nihon Plaza, Montreal. 15 stories steel. Partial collapse on 11th floor.
    - Windsor Tower, Madrid. 29 stories steel/concrete. Partial collapse.
    - One Meridian Plaza, Philadelphia. 38 stories. No collapse.
    - Broadgate Phase 8, London. 14 stories. No collapse.
    - First Interstate Bank, Los Angeles. 62 stories. No collapse.
    - MGM Grand Hotel, Las Vegas. 26 stories. No collapse.
    - Joelma Building, Sao Paulo. 25 stories. No collapse.
    - Andraus Building, Sao Paulo. 31 stories. No collapse.

    These fires were much longer lasting and more intense than the WTC fires and none of these buildings experienced a complete collapse.
    Can you give a list of modern steel frame 20 storey+ buildings similar to WTC 1, 2 & 7 that have experienced a complete collapse due to fire - known and verified.

    On thing you are forgetting is that there was a huge mass above the impact point on both WTC1 and WTC2. There likely would have been no collapse if the plane had just hit the top 4 floors of the buildings. The failure was caused by a huge mass above the impact point acting as a battering ram on the floors below the impact point. The kinetic energy of an object is multiplied by its velocity squared so the power of that ram was such that nothing was going to stop it once it got moving.

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    • Replies: @Miro23
    Buildings of this type are designed to withstand jet impacts which they did very effectively on the day. The structure of an airliner is laughably flimsy (aluminium) in comparison with the massive structural steel columns of the WTC buildings. The jets knocked out the partition walls between the offices and produced a fireball of jet fuel that quickly burned off (black smoke) with nothing there at all to threaten the structure.

    Photo evidence tells a different story, showing in fact that the structural beams were cut, and that this was done simultaneously on all the pillars (including the completely cold ones untouched by fire) in the traditional CD way using placed charges.
    , @restless94110
    That is incorrect.

    Kinetic energy as a ram that nothing was going to stop? Each floor would have slowed that "ram" until it was stopped leaving a series of lopsided pancaked-floors.

    That's what happens if there is nothing removing the supports (as in a controlled demolition).

    Your theory is false. You show your ignorance by propagating it.
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  117. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Mark F.
    No, because the 2 WTC collapses were the first ones. So what? None of those other buildings had huge jets filled with fuel flying into them. To say the other fires were "similar" is false.

    Please explain how explosives were planted without anyone noticing. Any demolition expert can tell you that planting enough explosives to take down a huge building takes a long time and involves a lot of people doing stuff that is not easily hidden.

    And why bother with flying planes into the buildings if they are already going to come down with explosives? If "everyone knows" that planes flying into buildings can't cause them to collapse, why do it? Just blow up the buildings. You would have killed many more people doing that.

    All the usual denier rubbish coming out here. Let’s take a look at the latest:

    If “everyone knows” that planes flying into buildings can’t cause them to collapse, why do it? Just blow up the buildings. You would have killed many more people doing that.

    But practically no one in America does know “that planes flying into buildings can’t cause them to collapse.”

    Americans know virtually nothing whatever about Newtonian dynamics, which is why, if you wanted to fake a terrorist attack on New York, you might well consider having “terrorists” fly planes into buildings, while insuring that the buildings collapse by the detonation of pre-positioned explosives. But obviously, you cannot just blow the building up, since then you’d be unable to point to the “terrorists” to be framed as the culprits.

    And flying planes into the buildings makes the event so much more horrific, especially with those impossible recorded cell phone calls to Mum, wife or lover, and therefore, so much more effective as a pretext for $6 trillion-and-rising wars of imperial aggression.

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  118. Miro23 says:

    I have repeatedly noted that the Commission investigators failed to look into the potential foreign government involvement in the events that took place that day. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan just for starters may have been involved in or had knowledge relating to 9/11 but the only investigation that took place, insofar as I can determine, was a perfunctory look at the possible Saudi role, the notorious 28 pages, which have recently been released in a redacted form.

    It might have been worth checking out Israel a bit more closely. They have been running False Flag operations against the British and the US for years, aimed at engaging them in war against Arab states. For example:

    The Irgun bombing of the King David Hotel (headquarters of the British Mandate Government of Palestine) in which Zionists dressed as Arabs placed milk churns filled with explosives against the main columns of the building killing 91 people and injuring 44. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu attended a celebration to commemorate the event.

    Operation Susannah (Lavon Affair) where Israeli operatives impersonating Arabs bombed British and American cinemas, libraries and educational centres in Egypt to destabilize the country and keep British troops committed to the Middle East.

    Or on June 8th 1967, the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty with unmarked aircraft and torpedo boats. 34 men were killed and 171 wounded, with the attack in international waters following nine hours of close surveillance. When the ship failed to sink, the Israeli government concocted an elaborate story to cover the crime. Original plan to blame the sinking with all lives lost on the Egyptians and draw the US into the 6 Day War.

    Or Israelis and U.S. Zionists appearing all over the more recent WTC 9/11 “Operation” with Israelis once again impersonating Arabs in a historic deception/terror action of a type that carries a lot of kudos with old ex-terrorist Likudniks. In any event, Israelis were sent to film the historic day (as they later admitted on Israeli TV), with the celebrations including photos of themselves with a background of the burning towers.

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    • Replies: @L.K
    More people should have paid attention to your post, Miro.
    The zionists have a long and proven history of using terrorism, including False Flag terrorism.
    What is amazing is how many of the terrorists who took part in the assassination of the United Nations Security Council mediator in the Arab–Israeli conflict of 1947–1948, Count F.Bernadotte, or the bombing of the King David Hotel against the Brits, later became israeli Prime Ministers and Presidents, folks like Israel Yitzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin, and totally got away with it.

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/realstory.html
    by Alison Weir

    “When the buy-out effort was able to obtain only a few percent of the land, Zionists created a number of terrorist groups to fight against both the Palestinians and the British. Terrorist and future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin later bragged that Zionists had brought terrorism both to the Middle East and to the world at large.
     
    , @L.K
    http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book#article_11279

    Chapter III
    America the Target: 9-11 and Israel's History of False Flag Terrorism
    PREVIOUS ISRAELI ATTACKS ON U.S. TARGETS

    Eight years after the bombing of the King David Hotel, the State of Israel carried out a series of false-flag terror bombings against U.S. and British libraries, theatres, and other government institutions in Egypt in a terror campaign designed to be blamed on Egyptian groups. This Israeli terror campaign of July 1954 is often referred to as the "Lavon Affair" after Pinhas Lavon, the Israeli defense minister at the time.
    ...
    In June 1967, thirteen years after the Lavon Affair, the Israeli air force and navy deliberately strafed, bombed, napalmed, and torpedoed an unarmed U.S. vessel, the USS Liberty, and tried to kill all of the nearly three hundred crew members, simply to achieve a strategic war-time goal. Recently released documents from the National Security Agency (NSA) confirm that the United States government at the time had evidence that the Israelis had deliberately attacked the USS Liberty knowing it was a U.S. vessel.

    COVER-UP

    The U.S. government, military, and media all went along with the cover-up of the deliberate attack on the USS Liberty to avoid blaming Israel for the murder of 34 American servicemen, 26 of whom died from the torpedo blast, and the wounding of some 173 others. Shimon Peres, the Israeli president, certainly knows who made the decision to attack the U.S. vessel in 1967.

     

    In the case of 9-11, one of the differences is not only that the US government covered it up, but that there were certainly some US officials, traitors, who worked with the zionists to get the job done.
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  119. I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST’s explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It’s like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened — there was no such plane, just a crater.

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    The CGI versions are noteworthy. How did people on the ground, and at least two pilots, see those CGI jets?

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST’s explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It’s like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened — there was no such plane, just a crater.
     

    I see a lot of bollocks from the defenders of the Bush/Clinton version of 9/11 history and physics.

    But the non-existence of Flight 93 is a true novelty. Never heard that one before. Perhaps, JJ, you could give us some references to confirm that someone somewhere is sufficiently ill-informed to actually have claimed that no such flight existed.

    The generally understood view, as everyone but JJ Smith probably knows, is that Flight 93 was either forced down during a struggle between the plucky "Let's roll" crowd on board, or it was shot down by the USAF, the latter seemingly the most probably explanation since there was no apparent evidence of a crashed airliner at the alleged crash site. On the other hand, there were multiple eyewitness reports of a military aircraft in the area at the time of the crash and of debris strewn for miles in the vicinity of Shanksville, PA.

    This is getting to be fun. Any more bollocks, JJ? Or anyone?

    , @Rurik

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.
     
    what bodies?

    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane

    you're flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air
    , @peacenik
    "I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST’s explanation is pure hell to disprove."

    NIST's explanation (that Building 7 collapsed due to office fires) is a load of bull that any high school student can disprove! Office fires never get hot enough to melt steel! And even if they did, you wouldn't the symmetrical collapse that so evidently happened!

    The truth is out and no amount of BS rationalization is going to change the facts! So give it a rest, will you?
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    The only real anger I see here is from people like you, with all the name-calling and insults.
    , @David Bauer
    "NIST's explanation is pure hell to disprove." No, it is easy to disprove -- as I suspect you know. Dr. David Ray Griffin did so meticulously, exhaustively, and devastatingly in his 328-page book, "The Mysterious Collapse of World Trade Center 7: Why the Final Official Report about 9/11 is Unscientific and False." I'm glad he wrote it, but it was probably unnecessary, since anyone can see with his own eyes by watching the video of the collapse of Building 7 that it was obviously brought down in a classic controlled demolition with explosives; there is simply no other possible rational explanation. Incidentally, it is most curious that commenters like "John Jeremiah Smith" spend so much time and effort posting here in an attempt to debunk the claims of the Truth Movement -- claims that they purport to view as complete nonsense. Note that if it were not for "Smith's" posts and those by "War for Blair Mountain" and one or two others, the number of posts by truthers would far surpass those by deniers, and I suspect that is one of the reasons the latter are here. See "Cognitive Infiltration" by David Ray Griffin.
    , @restless94110
    Seriously, what are you on?

    There were no bodies found in the shallow hole.

    You are just making this shit up.

    And that "crater?" No other passenger plane crash in world history has no bodies and no nothing, but a shallow, small hole.

    Seriously, what is wrong with you?
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  120. Did a quick google…there are at least 4 blogs by engineers-physcists ripping to shreds the Claims of Steven Jones made in The European Journal of Physics. 9/11 Truthers were allowed to respond and as usual got their asses liked in during the debate.

    The passengers of the Shanksville crash magically disappeared out from the passenger jet….or were never there in the first place.

    God how I hate the 9/11 Truthers…..Professor Fetzler is psychopath who abuses his priveledge of being a tenured university professor.

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Did a quick google…there are at least 4 blogs by engineers-physcists ripping to shreds the Claims of Steven Jones made in The European Journal of Physics. 9/11 Truthers were allowed to respond and as usual got their asses liked in during the debate.
     
    I wouldn't want anyone to have "liked" my ass, so I'm glad not to have participated in that discussion.

    Perhaps you would assist everyone here by articulating, first, the claims by Professor Steven E. Jones, that you refer to, and then explaining, briefly, how to the best of your understanding, those claims were "ripped to shreds."

    I'd frankly be surprised if you can do it, even with the aid of those engineer-physcist [sic] bloggers, since Professor Jones is a respected scientist, author of multiple publications in top science journals such as Nature, for example.

    But let's see.

    , @restless94110
    There are 4 blogs ripping scientists conclusions?

    Name and link to even one of them, liar.
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  121. Pearl Harbour ad Tonkin. Don’t forget the “Maine” and Fort Sumter.

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    • Replies: @mcohen
    and what about fort apache,and the uss useless.
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  122. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    I honestly don’t understand how anyone could believe, even for an instant, that an operation of the magnitude of 911 could possibly have been undertaken by a handful of Arabs directed from a cave in Afghanistan. A war comedy movie, yes, but not reality.

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  123. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse
     
    A disproportionate amount of the C-Theory hinges on Bldg. 7, so Bldg. 7 collapse as "unexplained" is being vociferously claimed and defended by C-Theorists.

    That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable, although a good small-scale experimental set-up is expensive. This has been common knowledge in the engineering community since Dresden. In fact, the frequently pointed-to external steel framing of the WTC was intended, partially, as prevention of the supposedly unlikely event of just such a fire. It worked, almost, in that the vertical collapse as the corner welds popped prevented extreme additional destruction to adjacent buildings. Can you imagine the death and calamity on the streets below, had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally? New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally

    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don’t topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.

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    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Anon


    It is absolutely urgent that you contact the MIT Engineering Department about your earth shattering discovery about the only way tall buildings can collapse...We don't want the tenured faculty of MIT Mechanical Engineering to deprive the MIT structural engineering students about 9/11 Truther Euler Beam Buckling Theory!!!
    , @John Jeremiah Smith


    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally
     
    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don’t topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.
     
    You mean, like if the seekrutly-planted demolition on the lower floors had detonated early, out of the seekrutly-planned sequence?
    , @Anonymous
    Why would a large building being damaged by falling debris and fire be damaged completely symmetrically at the same time? Wouldn't it be damaged asymmetrically? That's why buildings have fire escapes, emergency exits, stairwells, etc., because in fires and structural accidents, the damage is generally asymmetrical.
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  124. Miro23 says:
    @MarkinLA
    On thing you are forgetting is that there was a huge mass above the impact point on both WTC1 and WTC2. There likely would have been no collapse if the plane had just hit the top 4 floors of the buildings. The failure was caused by a huge mass above the impact point acting as a battering ram on the floors below the impact point. The kinetic energy of an object is multiplied by its velocity squared so the power of that ram was such that nothing was going to stop it once it got moving.

    Buildings of this type are designed to withstand jet impacts which they did very effectively on the day. The structure of an airliner is laughably flimsy (aluminium) in comparison with the massive structural steel columns of the WTC buildings. The jets knocked out the partition walls between the offices and produced a fireball of jet fuel that quickly burned off (black smoke) with nothing there at all to threaten the structure.

    Photo evidence tells a different story, showing in fact that the structural beams were cut, and that this was done simultaneously on all the pillars (including the completely cold ones untouched by fire) in the traditional CD way using placed charges.

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    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Miro

    Your just making shit up to promote your 9/11 Truther psychosis....


    You a raising sewage that has been for been refuted for 15 years...hint:it's what you leave out...among other things Truthers lie by omission...15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11...



    One can find very easily dozens of debates with 9/11 Truthers about the very point you just raised in You Tube debates with 9/11 Truthers....9/11 Truthers always running away shrieking with there tails behind their legs...
    , @MarkinLA
    It doesn't matter that an aircraft is "flimsy" or made of aluminum. What matters is that it has a significant mass and it is traveling at high velocity. Kinetic energy is the energy of an object in motion and is calculated as 1/2 X mass X vel0city X velocity (velocity squared). The plane slamming into the building caused a lot of physical damage to the structure and a lot of that kinetic energy is converted to heat energy as well. In addition, there could be things like magnesium on a aircraft that burns hot enough to melt steel. Add up the physical damage, the changes to the characteristics of the steel, any damage moving the center of gravity of the top portion of the building away from its center and you can have stresses that slowly build to the point that the building is going to come down.

    When an armor piercing bullet blows through a piece of armor plate it does so by melting the steel at the impact point. When the bullet hits the steel, it compresses it which causes it to heat to red hot and the remaining energy of the bullet forces the the molten steel out of its way. US Anti-tank rounds are just darts of depleted uranium or tungsten that burn through a tanks armor in this way showering the enemy tank crew with molten metal and burning them to death.

    Have you ever seen pictures of engineering collapses like a crane or something. In many cases, everybody runs like hell before anything happens because everybody has heard the telltale sign of a major failure and they know it is just a matter of time before it collapses. But it takes time for that failure to move through the system as stress fractures build up when the load is transferred from point to point.
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  125. @anonymous

    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally
     
    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don't topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.

    Anon

    It is absolutely urgent that you contact the MIT Engineering Department about your earth shattering discovery about the only way tall buildings can collapse…We don’t want the tenured faculty of MIT Mechanical Engineering to deprive the MIT structural engineering students about 9/11 Truther Euler Beam Buckling Theory!!!

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  126. mcohen says:
    @Rehmat
    How funny - even the Chief Rabbi of England admitted recently admitted that CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE has become part of Jewish culture .......

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/11/25/uk-chief-rabbi-admits-epidemic-child-sexual-abuse/

    i love a good 911 conspiracy theory argument on the net.better than faulty towers for laughs.america the exceptional cannot grasp that its enemies would …..dare i say it……fight back.
    the russians control the no fly zone in syria.

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    • Replies: @Rehmat
    YES - criminals have the habit of calling people 'conspiracy theorists' who pull their dirty pants down.

    In August 2016, Russian REN-TV aired a new short film blaming Zionist Jews for committing the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.

    The film is claimed to be an updated version of a 2012 film which blamed Jews for committing various disasters such as the Sinking of the Titanic, a Rockefeller-Morgan conspiracy in order to create an international crisis, Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986 (here), and the 9/11.

    The film claims that Muslim Arabs were unjustly blamed for the September 11, 2001 attacks. Watch below an interview with Zionist prime minister Ehud Barak below showing the pre-knowledge of what is going to happen to Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Iran in the future.

    The commentators said the film was made to prove what is happening in the world today is exactly as predicted in the notorious The Protocols of the Elders of Zion published in Russia in 1903, which purports to be the leaked master plan for Jewish world domination....

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/08/23/russian-tv-jews-did-911/
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  127. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    9 11 The Truth In 5 Minutes James Corbett

    9/11 Trillions: Follow The Money

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  128. MarkinLA says:
    @CanSpeccy

    it was the force of a massive battering ram raining down on the lower floors of the building.
     
    Another misconception, based on an ignorance of so-called "high-school physics" which few Americans seem to have learned in high school.

    The "massive battering ram," i.e., the section of the building above the point of aircraft impact, disintegrated in the first moments of the collapse under the equal and opposite action upon it of the structure below.

    I wouldn’t be talking about ignorance of physics and “equal and opposite action” if I was you. What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it’s velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has “disintegrated” or not. The only thing that matters is how much is ejected sideways and no longer lands on the lower floors. From the pictures and all the caterwauling about “it looks like a controlled demolition” there isn’t much ejected sideways.

    Let me try and explain what would happen if at the impact point the main superstructure could no longer carry the mass above it. The top part of the building would come down as a unit and the floor above the impact point and the floor below would smash against each other causing a lot of damage to the lower floor. The lower floor still has to carry the weight of the upper floors PLUS the kinetic energy of the part of the building coming down. If it can do so maybe the top part just topples over leaving the lower floors basically intact, or if you are lucky a big useless mess at the top. If it can’t that floor is sheared off adding to the mass of the ram and adding to the kinetic energy of the falling mass as well. Now the second floor above the impact point smashes into the mass and it either withstands the load or is also sheared off adding to the mass.

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    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    MarkLA


    And add in the fact that the steel support beams only had to be softened not melted to cause catastrophic structural failure. The structural engineers who designed the TT admit that they did not take into account burning jet fuel in the scenarios they came up with for the possible collapse scenarios of the TT back in the late 1960-searly 70's. Engineering deadlines-lead-time issues-constraints have a way of making engineers screen out certain possible future scenarios.
    , @CanSpeccy

    I wouldn’t be talking about ignorance of physics and “equal and opposite action” if I was you.
     
    "If I was you" I'd learn the difference between the past tense and the conditional tense. But that's just me.

    What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it’s velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has “disintegrated” or not.
     
    Oh, yes, so you think that a shower of dust was all it took to bring down the towers.

    The only thing that matters is how much is ejected sideways and no longer lands on the lower floors. From the pictures and all the caterwauling about “it looks like a controlled demolition” there isn’t much ejected sideways.
     
    No there's not much ejected sideways, except about 99% as shown in this image. But look, physics isn't a sort of do-it-yourself thing that you make up as you go along. Do try to understand what those qualified people such as David Chandler or Steven Jones who you ridicule are saying. They have actually studied physics.
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  129. “… For the first time a presidential candidate, admittedly from a fringe party, is calling for a reexamination of 9/11 …”

    So what? These stupid/corrupt idiots are members of the climate sect!
    If “experts” say aliens did 9/11 they will believe it.

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  130. Old fogey says:
    @Alfred1860
    Nobody on this board knows exactly how the THREE towers came down, who did it, or the motivation behind it. A Boeing 757 with a 124' wingspan certainly did not hit the Pentagon, nor did one crash in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania - this is blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes.

    Anyone who actually believes the official story is a fool of epic proportions, or most likely, deluded. Quoting the Pentagon as a credible source is especially hilarious.

    Pardon me, but 7 (seven) buildings were demolished, all of which had the designation WTC on their names. None (zero) of the buildings surrounding the site were destroyed, though one was damaged seriously. The carefully-designed “bathtub” under the towers, which kept the water from the harbor from damaging that very expensive part of lower Manhattan, was also not damaged. The precision of the destruction was amazing. I commend Judy Wood for the work she has done on these matters.

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  131. @Miro23
    Buildings of this type are designed to withstand jet impacts which they did very effectively on the day. The structure of an airliner is laughably flimsy (aluminium) in comparison with the massive structural steel columns of the WTC buildings. The jets knocked out the partition walls between the offices and produced a fireball of jet fuel that quickly burned off (black smoke) with nothing there at all to threaten the structure.

    Photo evidence tells a different story, showing in fact that the structural beams were cut, and that this was done simultaneously on all the pillars (including the completely cold ones untouched by fire) in the traditional CD way using placed charges.

    Miro

    Your just making shit up to promote your 9/11 Truther psychosis….

    You a raising sewage that has been for been refuted for 15 years…hint:it’s what you leave out…among other things Truthers lie by omission…15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11…

    One can find very easily dozens of debates with 9/11 Truthers about the very point you just raised in You Tube debates with 9/11 Truthers….9/11 Truthers always running away shrieking with there tails behind their legs…

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    • Replies: @Stonehands

    Your just making shit up to promote your 9/11 Truther psychosis….

    You a raising sewage that has been for been refuted for 15 years…hint:it’s what you leave out…among other things Truthers lie by omission…15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11…


     

    Stop farting out of your mouth and state your rebuttal, ass- clown.
    , @Rurik

    15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11…
     
    I confess I usually ignore you, but your tenacity at being dishonest and wrong are only outdone by your inanity

    everything you write is brazenly false and blatantly stupid, and it always lacks even a shred of brio. Just tiresome bromides and drab contrarian chaff for its own sake.

    >sigh<
    , @restless94110
    "One can find very easily dozens of ....."

    Apparently you are not one of the ones who can find such nonsense.

    Else you would have done it.

    Stop your shrieking. We can all see it is your who has your tail behind your legs, running from logic and truth.

    Run hard.
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  132. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    Read More
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  133. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @John Jeremiah Smith
    I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST's explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It's like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened -- there was no such plane, just a crater.

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    The CGI versions are noteworthy. How did people on the ground, and at least two pilots, see those CGI jets?

    I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST’s explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It’s like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened — there was no such plane, just a crater.

    I see a lot of bollocks from the defenders of the Bush/Clinton version of 9/11 history and physics.

    But the non-existence of Flight 93 is a true novelty. Never heard that one before. Perhaps, JJ, you could give us some references to confirm that someone somewhere is sufficiently ill-informed to actually have claimed that no such flight existed.

    The generally understood view, as everyone but JJ Smith probably knows, is that Flight 93 was either forced down during a struggle between the plucky “Let’s roll” crowd on board, or it was shot down by the USAF, the latter seemingly the most probably explanation since there was no apparent evidence of a crashed airliner at the alleged crash site. On the other hand, there were multiple eyewitness reports of a military aircraft in the area at the time of the crash and of debris strewn for miles in the vicinity of Shanksville, PA.

    This is getting to be fun. Any more bollocks, JJ? Or anyone?

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    But the non-existence of Flight 93 is a true novelty. Never heard that one before. Perhaps, JJ, you could give us some references to confirm that someone somewhere is sufficiently ill-informed to actually have claimed that no such flight existed.
     
    Makes ya spitting mad, don't it, Candide?

    See msg 95, by Alfred 1860...here, I'll fetch for ya:

    "Nobody on this board knows exactly how the THREE towers came down, who did it, or the motivation behind it. A Boeing 757 with a 124′ wingspan certainly did not hit the Pentagon, nor did one crash in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania – this is blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes."
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  134. Rurik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith


    New Yorkers should be grateful for serendipitous fringe benefits.

     

    perhaps the most cynical thing I’ve ever read (and that’s saying a lot!)
     
    Why, thanks! That's quite a compliment, and I wasn't even trying. What was Bierce's Devil's Dictionary entry? Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.

    I'm guessing you don't think there's anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?

    anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?

    it depends on which one you’re talking about..

    the conspiracy theory that has Osama and his nineteen henchmen doing 9/11 or the conspiracy theory that has elements at the highest levels of the Pentagon and Fecal government doing 9/11. Both are conspiracy theories, so which conspiracy theory do you adhere to?

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?
     

    Both are conspiracy theories, so which conspiracy theory do you adhere to?
     
    Which one is more cynical?
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  135. MarkinLA says:
    @Miro23
    Buildings of this type are designed to withstand jet impacts which they did very effectively on the day. The structure of an airliner is laughably flimsy (aluminium) in comparison with the massive structural steel columns of the WTC buildings. The jets knocked out the partition walls between the offices and produced a fireball of jet fuel that quickly burned off (black smoke) with nothing there at all to threaten the structure.

    Photo evidence tells a different story, showing in fact that the structural beams were cut, and that this was done simultaneously on all the pillars (including the completely cold ones untouched by fire) in the traditional CD way using placed charges.

    It doesn’t matter that an aircraft is “flimsy” or made of aluminum. What matters is that it has a significant mass and it is traveling at high velocity. Kinetic energy is the energy of an object in motion and is calculated as 1/2 X mass X vel0city X velocity (velocity squared). The plane slamming into the building caused a lot of physical damage to the structure and a lot of that kinetic energy is converted to heat energy as well. In addition, there could be things like magnesium on a aircraft that burns hot enough to melt steel. Add up the physical damage, the changes to the characteristics of the steel, any damage moving the center of gravity of the top portion of the building away from its center and you can have stresses that slowly build to the point that the building is going to come down.

    When an armor piercing bullet blows through a piece of armor plate it does so by melting the steel at the impact point. When the bullet hits the steel, it compresses it which causes it to heat to red hot and the remaining energy of the bullet forces the the molten steel out of its way. US Anti-tank rounds are just darts of depleted uranium or tungsten that burn through a tanks armor in this way showering the enemy tank crew with molten metal and burning them to death.

    Have you ever seen pictures of engineering collapses like a crane or something. In many cases, everybody runs like hell before anything happens because everybody has heard the telltale sign of a major failure and they know it is just a matter of time before it collapses. But it takes time for that failure to move through the system as stress fractures build up when the load is transferred from point to point.

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    • Replies: @Miro23
    The question is about the official "collapse due to fire" story, with these buildings not showing the characteristics of fire induced failure in any way.

    No deformations, whole building not consumed by fire, no asymmetric movement, no partial weakness or large sections of the structure remaining intact.

    However they did show all the features of a controlled demolition: Sudden onset of collapse, collapse in seconds, descent without resistance, steel structure broken up, nothing left standing, symmetrical least resistance fall pattern and visible explosions in the main destruction zones.
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  136. AnalogMan says:
    @Fred Reed
    Nine-Eleven Conspiracy Exam (Note: This was written when Israel was the most popular culprit. Some questions may need to be changed to reflect changes in guilt. Failure to answer all questions will result in a grade of F.)




    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don't know___




    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don't know___


    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___


    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don't know__


    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together


    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.


    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___


    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?

    So, let me see if I follow your argument.

    If you don’t know all the answers, then you know nothing.

    If you know nothing, then the 9/11 Commission report is correct in all respects.

    Q.E.D.

    I used to enjoy your writing, but lately you seem to have lost the plot. It’s no disgrace; dementia comes to all who live long enough.

    We don’t need to know every detail of who did what, and how, and who knew about it. All we need is one obvious lie to discredit the official story. Start with Building 7. No we don’t know exactly what happened. Obviously, there are many hypotheses, and some of them are crazy. So is the official story.

    All we are asking for is an honest investigation, with the results published and the guilty punished.

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    • Replies: @Oldeguy
    Pretty much my response. Something, I know not what, is amiss with Our Favorite Expatriate.
    Not being sure of what really happened in an event this pivotal is a reason to proceed with further discussion and investigation- not to shut it down.
    The most successful, by far, commando operation in history performed flawlessly by a bunch of guys with boxcutters directed by cell phone by a fugitive hiding out in a cave in Afghanistan ?
    On the the face of it, that matches the goofiest of any of the conspiracy theories.
    , @jacques sheete

    I used to enjoy your writing, but lately you seem to have lost the plot.
     
    Yup, I too feel more sympathy than disgust for someone who used to write well.

    Such as this classic.

    Spend a year on a casualty ward. When the girlfriend of seventeen from Chattanooga finds that her Mikey is blind and doesn't precisely have a face, her expression is something to see. Or not to see. You can become disposed to ask: Is this war for anything? Or is it just a war?

    -Fred Reed, War, Maybe We Could Go Bowling Instead

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/Cambodia.shtml

     

    In that same article he noted that perspectives change. While they certainly do, I agree that maybe it's time to bow out gracefully since something more than mere perspective has changed. It's a sad thing to witness.
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  137. mcohen says:
    @Marcus
    Thanks for proving my point, you think anyone who doesn't entertain your kookery is obviously an eebil Zionest. Also, hydrophobia??

    you see …what did i tell …911 kkkonspiracy is better than faulty towers for laughs.hydro phobia is classic.but what about faultytowerphobia.

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  138. Rurik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith
    I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST's explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It's like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened -- there was no such plane, just a crater.

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    The CGI versions are noteworthy. How did people on the ground, and at least two pilots, see those CGI jets?

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    what bodies?

    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane

    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air
     
    LOL. But give the lad a chance. He's just trying out at this propaganda gig. He'll no doubt get better if we give him a real work out.
    , @John Jeremiah Smith

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

     


    what bodies?
    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane
    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air
     
    Do a little more research. Most of the flight 93 bodies were identified and sent to their kin to be buried. I believe it was 8 that were unidentifiable -- they are buried in Shanksville.

    How come I know more about this than you professional C-Theorists? Other than my BIL working as a CIA analyst, who let slip that Flight 93 was shot down?
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  139. @MarkinLA
    I wouldn't be talking about ignorance of physics and "equal and opposite action" if I was you. What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it's velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has "disintegrated" or not. The only thing that matters is how much is ejected sideways and no longer lands on the lower floors. From the pictures and all the caterwauling about "it looks like a controlled demolition" there isn't much ejected sideways.

    Let me try and explain what would happen if at the impact point the main superstructure could no longer carry the mass above it. The top part of the building would come down as a unit and the floor above the impact point and the floor below would smash against each other causing a lot of damage to the lower floor. The lower floor still has to carry the weight of the upper floors PLUS the kinetic energy of the part of the building coming down. If it can do so maybe the top part just topples over leaving the lower floors basically intact, or if you are lucky a big useless mess at the top. If it can't that floor is sheared off adding to the mass of the ram and adding to the kinetic energy of the falling mass as well. Now the second floor above the impact point smashes into the mass and it either withstands the load or is also sheared off adding to the mass.

    MarkLA

    And add in the fact that the steel support beams only had to be softened not melted to cause catastrophic structural failure. The structural engineers who designed the TT admit that they did not take into account burning jet fuel in the scenarios they came up with for the possible collapse scenarios of the TT back in the late 1960-searly 70′s. Engineering deadlines-lead-time issues-constraints have a way of making engineers screen out certain possible future scenarios.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    add in the fact that the steel support beams only had to be softened not melted to cause catastrophic structural failure.
     
    You are absolutely correct about that. If the beams had melted, or even softened, then the building would have collapsed. But not straight down at near free-fall speed into its own footprint, while crushing all the concrete to dust.

    If the columns had melted, or merely softened, they would not have melted or softened uniformly across the the building, so the result would have been an asymetric collapse resulting in the top of the building toppling over and crashing onto the roof of adjacent buildings. The portion of the building beneath the fire zone would have been left standing.

    But, as we know, nothing like that happened.
    , @restless94110
    No, the beams did not only have to be softened to fail. But since the jet fuel fires never reached even the melting point of steel, it doesn't matter anyway.

    However, even if there was softening, that only means that the building would soften. Get it? It means that the building would bend.

    It most certainly would not fall straight down at the speed of gravity.

    That is not possible from softening steel.

    Which didn't happen anyway, because the temperature was never that high.

    This is why long-buring fires in many other high-rises all over the world over the past several decades has never ever caused steel to soften and building structures to melt, bend, or fail.

    It's never happened. And, it never happened on 9-11 either. The buildings were taken down.
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  140. mcohen says:
    @Clyde Wilson
    Pearl Harbour ad Tonkin. Don't forget the "Maine" and Fort Sumter.

    and what about fort apache,and the uss useless.

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  141. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Did a quick google...there are at least 4 blogs by engineers-physcists ripping to shreds the Claims of Steven Jones made in The European Journal of Physics. 9/11 Truthers were allowed to respond and as usual got their asses liked in during the debate.


    The passengers of the Shanksville crash magically disappeared out from the passenger jet....or were never there in the first place.




    God how I hate the 9/11 Truthers.....Professor Fetzler is psychopath who abuses his priveledge of being a tenured university professor.

    Did a quick google…there are at least 4 blogs by engineers-physcists ripping to shreds the Claims of Steven Jones made in The European Journal of Physics. 9/11 Truthers were allowed to respond and as usual got their asses liked in during the debate.

    I wouldn’t want anyone to have “liked” my ass, so I’m glad not to have participated in that discussion.

    Perhaps you would assist everyone here by articulating, first, the claims by Professor Steven E. Jones, that you refer to, and then explaining, briefly, how to the best of your understanding, those claims were “ripped to shreds.”

    I’d frankly be surprised if you can do it, even with the aid of those engineer-physcist [sic] bloggers, since Professor Jones is a respected scientist, author of multiple publications in top science journals such as Nature, for example.

    But let’s see.

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    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Canspeccy


    Keystroke mistake from blurry vision(diabetic).
    , @War for Blair Mountain
    That's true, Stephen Jones had I suppose a respectable scientific career. But his nanothermite study was torn to shreds by spectroscopy experts...a very detailed critique of the nanothermite study spectroscopy claims.


    Brian Josephson won the Nobel Prize in physics for his deep insight into semiconductor tunneling....nothwistanding, Brian Josephson is considered a crackpot among his colleagues for his "physics" explanation of Uri Geller's telekinetic spoon bending. 9/11 Truth Scientist Judy Wood isn't to far off from Josephson's crackpottery. It is amusing to see the 9/11 Truther Scientists publicly trash each other over their claims as to how the TT collapse....and since you are most definitely channeling the psychotic Dr Judy Wood...PH.D. in structural engineering...well what does that make you? I mean Stephen Jones even thinks Judy Wood is a crackpot...Crackpots calling each other crackpots...I think we got a bona fide Monty Python skit here....



    Julian Schwinger has some interesting things to say about Cold Fusion....Schwinger is probably wrong...but for interesting reasons...
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  142. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Rurik

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.
     
    what bodies?

    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane

    you're flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

    LOL. But give the lad a chance. He’s just trying out at this propaganda gig. He’ll no doubt get better if we give him a real work out.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    get better if we give him a real work out.
     
    I guess we'll see, eh?

    ;)
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  143. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @War for Blair Mountain
    MarkLA


    And add in the fact that the steel support beams only had to be softened not melted to cause catastrophic structural failure. The structural engineers who designed the TT admit that they did not take into account burning jet fuel in the scenarios they came up with for the possible collapse scenarios of the TT back in the late 1960-searly 70's. Engineering deadlines-lead-time issues-constraints have a way of making engineers screen out certain possible future scenarios.

    add in the fact that the steel support beams only had to be softened not melted to cause catastrophic structural failure.

    You are absolutely correct about that. If the beams had melted, or even softened, then the building would have collapsed. But not straight down at near free-fall speed into its own footprint, while crushing all the concrete to dust.

    If the columns had melted, or merely softened, they would not have melted or softened uniformly across the the building, so the result would have been an asymetric collapse resulting in the top of the building toppling over and crashing onto the roof of adjacent buildings. The portion of the building beneath the fire zone would have been left standing.

    But, as we know, nothing like that happened.

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  144. @edNels
    Oh BS!

    they would mass on the National Mall and bring about regime change of some sort.
     
    Just remember back to the ''Bonus Army'' the ww1 vets who amassed in DC to demand the bonus they were promised. Only to be fired on by McArthurs troops, some killed and run off.

    Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were.

    All communications would be stopped there in the location, News would be blacked out, and some sort of cover story would be fabricated. The million plus would be history… they'd pulverize em and flush em down a sewer. Then they might put in a call to Zellicow for a committee to tune up some myths.

    “Today if you had a million really threatening crowd of protesters that had blood in their eye, they would be liquidated. They would be treated like Tianamin square protesters were.”

    Well, it would surely make it clear what our nation has become if that were to happen. So what you’re saying is, “I’m outgunned, so I volunteer to give up my liberty without even protesting.”

    What is the point about whining about 911 truth then?

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  145. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @MarkinLA
    I wouldn't be talking about ignorance of physics and "equal and opposite action" if I was you. What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it's velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has "disintegrated" or not. The only thing that matters is how much is ejected sideways and no longer lands on the lower floors. From the pictures and all the caterwauling about "it looks like a controlled demolition" there isn't much ejected sideways.

    Let me try and explain what would happen if at the impact point the main superstructure could no longer carry the mass above it. The top part of the building would come down as a unit and the floor above the impact point and the floor below would smash against each other causing a lot of damage to the lower floor. The lower floor still has to carry the weight of the upper floors PLUS the kinetic energy of the part of the building coming down. If it can do so maybe the top part just topples over leaving the lower floors basically intact, or if you are lucky a big useless mess at the top. If it can't that floor is sheared off adding to the mass of the ram and adding to the kinetic energy of the falling mass as well. Now the second floor above the impact point smashes into the mass and it either withstands the load or is also sheared off adding to the mass.

    I wouldn’t be talking about ignorance of physics and “equal and opposite action” if I was you.

    “If I was you” I’d learn the difference between the past tense and the conditional tense. But that’s just me.

    What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it’s velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has “disintegrated” or not.

    Oh, yes, so you think that a shower of dust was all it took to bring down the towers.

    The only thing that matters is how much is ejected sideways and no longer lands on the lower floors. From the pictures and all the caterwauling about “it looks like a controlled demolition” there isn’t much ejected sideways.

    No there’s not much ejected sideways, except about 99% as shown in this image. But look, physics isn’t a sort of do-it-yourself thing that you make up as you go along. Do try to understand what those qualified people such as David Chandler or Steven Jones who you ridicule are saying. They have actually studied physics.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith


    What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it’s velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has “disintegrated” or not.

     

    Oh, yes, so you think that a shower of dust was all it took to bring down the towers.
     
    Ah, I find your misunderstanding of this very interesting. Perhaps it explains a lot of the C-Theorists' type of wackiness.

    One hundred tons of dust weighs 100 tons. It is the same mass, dust or not.

    But, you don't get that, do you? Interesting.

    Oh, well. This is enough for this time around with you nutcakes. I am uncomfortable remembering the adage that arguing with a fool proves only that there are two.
    , @MarkinLA
    “If I was you” I’d learn the difference between the past tense and the conditional tense. But that’s just me.

    I was using your stupid characterization that showed you don't know anything about physics. This issue isn't about just physics. It is also about the construction techniques of tall buildings and how they are compromised - something unknown to somebody "who studies physics".

    If 99% of the matter was ejected sideways from the building then it wouldn't look like a controlled demolition now would it?
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  146. peacenik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    “. . . neither before nor since 9/11 have fires caused
    the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise
     
    If you intend to contradict my statement, then contradict my statement. I wrote: "“That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable".

    At no point in time have I written that such an event has taken place in a high-rise building. High-rise building fires are not commonplace, and fire-caused collapse of a high-rise building even less so. However, if you wish to read the NIST report on the collapse of Bldg. 7, it is available. Go find it. I do not fetch for shouting, angry conspiracy theorists.

    “That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known . . .”

    Well-known?! Really?! On what evidence do you base your statement? You are just making things up . . . so I will say it again: you are a bare-faced liar!

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith


    “That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known . . .”
     
    Well-known?! Really?! On what evidence do you base your statement? You are just making things up . . . so I will say it again: you are a bare-faced liar!
     
    And you are a credulous fool. Done with the name-calling yet? I'm good at it.

    Yes, the above fact is well-known by civil and structural engineers. That you would not know it is not altogether surprising.
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  147. Miro23 says:
    @MarkinLA
    It doesn't matter that an aircraft is "flimsy" or made of aluminum. What matters is that it has a significant mass and it is traveling at high velocity. Kinetic energy is the energy of an object in motion and is calculated as 1/2 X mass X vel0city X velocity (velocity squared). The plane slamming into the building caused a lot of physical damage to the structure and a lot of that kinetic energy is converted to heat energy as well. In addition, there could be things like magnesium on a aircraft that burns hot enough to melt steel. Add up the physical damage, the changes to the characteristics of the steel, any damage moving the center of gravity of the top portion of the building away from its center and you can have stresses that slowly build to the point that the building is going to come down.

    When an armor piercing bullet blows through a piece of armor plate it does so by melting the steel at the impact point. When the bullet hits the steel, it compresses it which causes it to heat to red hot and the remaining energy of the bullet forces the the molten steel out of its way. US Anti-tank rounds are just darts of depleted uranium or tungsten that burn through a tanks armor in this way showering the enemy tank crew with molten metal and burning them to death.

    Have you ever seen pictures of engineering collapses like a crane or something. In many cases, everybody runs like hell before anything happens because everybody has heard the telltale sign of a major failure and they know it is just a matter of time before it collapses. But it takes time for that failure to move through the system as stress fractures build up when the load is transferred from point to point.

    The question is about the official “collapse due to fire” story, with these buildings not showing the characteristics of fire induced failure in any way.

    No deformations, whole building not consumed by fire, no asymmetric movement, no partial weakness or large sections of the structure remaining intact.

    However they did show all the features of a controlled demolition: Sudden onset of collapse, collapse in seconds, descent without resistance, steel structure broken up, nothing left standing, symmetrical least resistance fall pattern and visible explosions in the main destruction zones.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Maybe you aren't getting it but controlled demolitions are the result of gravity and not the explosive - the same as the tower collapse. So, of course, they look similar.
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  148. @CanSpeccy

    Did a quick google…there are at least 4 blogs by engineers-physcists ripping to shreds the Claims of Steven Jones made in The European Journal of Physics. 9/11 Truthers were allowed to respond and as usual got their asses liked in during the debate.
     
    I wouldn't want anyone to have "liked" my ass, so I'm glad not to have participated in that discussion.

    Perhaps you would assist everyone here by articulating, first, the claims by Professor Steven E. Jones, that you refer to, and then explaining, briefly, how to the best of your understanding, those claims were "ripped to shreds."

    I'd frankly be surprised if you can do it, even with the aid of those engineer-physcist [sic] bloggers, since Professor Jones is a respected scientist, author of multiple publications in top science journals such as Nature, for example.

    But let's see.

    Canspeccy

    Keystroke mistake from blurry vision(diabetic).

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  149. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Meet Lucky Larry

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  150. @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 truthers couldn't even get it right on the physics-engineering behind the collapse of the Twin Towers. If they can't get this right...everything else that comes after-ignore.


    But I'll mention one thing that comes after the worthless 9/11 Truther sewage about the collapse TT. The Pentagon's Bio-indentifivation scientific team as able to identified through DNA testing the remains of people who died on the jet that slammed into the Pentagon.The 9/11 Truthers shriek:"THEY ARE ARE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY ALSO"....the same group of men women who identify they remains of US soldiers who died in Vietnam via DNA testing....They must be lying about this also.



    Take your pick:9/11 Truthers are 1)psychotic delusions....or 2)repellant sociopaths with a very nasty political agenda.....these are the only two options.

    Project much?

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  151. @Intelligent Dasein
    Unbelievable. So now Philip Giraldi has been converted into a 9/11-Doucher after watching Loose Change, of all things?

    Some spook you turned out to be. The presence of such weak-minded fools in our intelligence apparatus is more explanatory than any "conspiracy theory" regarding the inexplicable events and stand-downs of 9/11.

    Actually, the existence of weak-minded fools like yourself is the reason States, always comprising a small minority, are able to wield over much larger numbers of people (sheeple really).

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  152. @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 truthers couldn't even get it right on the physics-engineering behind the collapse of the Twin Towers. If they can't get this right...everything else that comes after-ignore.


    But I'll mention one thing that comes after the worthless 9/11 Truther sewage about the collapse TT. The Pentagon's Bio-indentifivation scientific team as able to identified through DNA testing the remains of people who died on the jet that slammed into the Pentagon.The 9/11 Truthers shriek:"THEY ARE ARE PART OF THE CONSPIRACY ALSO"....the same group of men women who identify they remains of US soldiers who died in Vietnam via DNA testing....They must be lying about this also.



    Take your pick:9/11 Truthers are 1)psychotic delusions....or 2)repellant sociopaths with a very nasty political agenda.....these are the only two options.

    9/11 truthers couldn’t even get it right on the physics-engineering behind the collapse of the Twin Towers. If they can’t get this right…everything else that comes after-ignore.

    NIST can’t get it right either. (“google” it ..)

    Dude or dudet as it may be, whoever you are, you are as transparent as the lying scum that perpetrated and cover up this event.

    Take your pick:9/11 Truthers are 1)psychotic delusions….or 2)repellant sociopaths with a very nasty political agenda…..these are the only two options.

    Option 3. You are a low life paid shill of our oppressors.

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  153. @John Jeremiah Smith
    You just can't resist, can ya, Fred? Awww, stop already. Leave the dumbasses to their feedbins. America needs dumbasses now more than ever.

    Waaaaaitaminnit ... that was you who faked that Beltway shot of the plane going into the Pentagon, warn't it? Yepper, it figures you were in on the whole deal from the beginning. Prolly went to Tel Aviv with the money in a satchel, dint ya?

    People who readily resort to name-calling and insults are typically on the losing side of argument.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    People who readily resort to name-calling and insults are typically on the losing side of argument.
     
    Not really -- pretty much 50/50, imo. Did you include yourself in the "dumbass" group for some good reason? Maybe aliens from Proxima Centauri used a seekrut raygun to collapse the WTC?
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  154. @CanSpeccy

    I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST’s explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It’s like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened — there was no such plane, just a crater.
     

    I see a lot of bollocks from the defenders of the Bush/Clinton version of 9/11 history and physics.

    But the non-existence of Flight 93 is a true novelty. Never heard that one before. Perhaps, JJ, you could give us some references to confirm that someone somewhere is sufficiently ill-informed to actually have claimed that no such flight existed.

    The generally understood view, as everyone but JJ Smith probably knows, is that Flight 93 was either forced down during a struggle between the plucky "Let's roll" crowd on board, or it was shot down by the USAF, the latter seemingly the most probably explanation since there was no apparent evidence of a crashed airliner at the alleged crash site. On the other hand, there were multiple eyewitness reports of a military aircraft in the area at the time of the crash and of debris strewn for miles in the vicinity of Shanksville, PA.

    This is getting to be fun. Any more bollocks, JJ? Or anyone?

    But the non-existence of Flight 93 is a true novelty. Never heard that one before. Perhaps, JJ, you could give us some references to confirm that someone somewhere is sufficiently ill-informed to actually have claimed that no such flight existed.

    Makes ya spitting mad, don’t it, Candide?

    See msg 95, by Alfred 1860…here, I’ll fetch for ya:

    “Nobody on this board knows exactly how the THREE towers came down, who did it, or the motivation behind it. A Boeing 757 with a 124′ wingspan certainly did not hit the Pentagon, nor did one crash in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania – this is blatantly obvious to anyone with eyes.”

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    • Replies: @Stonehands

    ... nor did one crash in a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania
     
    Are you sure it "crashed" in a field , or was the wreckage strewn across a wide area because it was shot down by the USAF?

    This comment doesn't back up your claim that someone on this blog believes there was no plane...
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  155. utu says:
    @Johnny F. Ive
    Waco was a horrible crime.

    We should get on twitter and ask Donald Trump if he will charge them for treason, and whatever else that would be feasible to punish their treachery. I hope he does it. We all need to encourage him on it.

    “Waco was a horrible crime.” – Yes, it was. This crime is reenacted daily on installments. About 1000 people are killed by police with impunity every year. What’s the difference? Americans are used to it and desensitized. Authorities have right to kill people in America.

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  156. @anonymous

    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally
     
    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don't topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.

    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally

    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don’t topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.

    You mean, like if the seekrutly-planted demolition on the lower floors had detonated early, out of the seekrutly-planned sequence?

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    • Replies: @The Alarmist

    "You mean, like if the seekrutly-planted demolition on the lower floors had detonated early, out of the seekrutly-planned sequence?"
     
    The shit above the crippling blast would still have fallen straight down from its CG above in absence of a meaningful force to torque it to the side. Ever wonder why so many people drop trees on their houses?
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  157. @iffen
    The entire holocaust fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    The entire reality "we exist" fable relies on "eye witness testimony" which has been thoroughly debunked.

    It is interesting to contrast the “holocaust”, where even the most absurd eyewitness testimony is taken as sacrosanct and beyond reproach, with events like 9-11 (or OKC, etc.) where eyewitness testimony contradicting the official account is dismissed as “unreliable”.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    The interesting contrast is between tens of thousands of witnesses as opposed to a handful.
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  158. @Rurik

    anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?
     
    it depends on which one you're talking about..

    the conspiracy theory that has Osama and his nineteen henchmen doing 9/11 or the conspiracy theory that has elements at the highest levels of the Pentagon and Fecal government doing 9/11. Both are conspiracy theories, so which conspiracy theory do you adhere to?

    anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?

    Both are conspiracy theories, so which conspiracy theory do you adhere to?

    Which one is more cynical?

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    • Replies: @Stonehands
    Hey Shlomo- you sure do like to answer questions with questions!
    , @Rurik

    Which one is more cynical?
     
    the point is that your fixation with "conspiracy theories" is hackneyed and bovine

    like calling someone a "racist" because they questioned Obama's birth certificate. Those loaded terms are the Pavlovian equivalent of dogs salivating at the bell. Call someone a "conspiracy theorist" and the anticipated stimulus / response is supposed to shut them up. But a 'discussion' at the kneejerk level of is beneath you JJ. Surely you have something more cerebral than paeans to reflexes ?
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  159. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Introduction to “Political Ponerology”

    INTRODUCTION

    “Experience has taught the author that evil is similar to disease in nature, although possibly more complex and elusive to our understanding. Its genesis reveals many factors, pathological, especially psychopathological, in character, whose essence medicine and psychology have already studied… [A] comprehension of the essence and genesis of evil generally makes use of data from [biology, medicine, and psychology]. Philosophical reflection alone is insufficient.” (Lobaczewski, 98)

    Like a color blind man incapable of distinguishing red from green, a small minority of the human population cannot experience or fully comprehend the normal range of human emotions. And like those color blind who may conceal their condition by using the correct words while not understanding their meaning (e.g., the top traffic light is “red”, the bottom is “green”) – so does this minority conceal their condition by playacting an emotion’s exterior signs (facial expressions, exclamations, body language). However, they do not actually experience the emotion in question. Their deception is revealed in the laboratory, where they respond to words like DEATH, CANCER, DISEASE, as if they were DAY, CREAM, or PAPER. They lack the ability to comprehend the emotional “punch” that certain words contain. They use others’ emotional reactions as cues, and they adjust their behavior to portray the correct ‘emotional’ behavior. (Hare, 129-30)

    These individuals are known as psychopaths. Not only can they not feel the pain of others, they often seem to deliberately cause others pain. Lobaczewski refers to this disorder as an “essential psychopathy” to distinguish them from others with deficits in their genetic/instinctual endowment, essential psychopathy being the most severe and disturbing.

    Many so-called “antisocial individuals” acquire similar characteristics in their life-time, whether caused by brain damage to certain areas of the brain, or functionally, because of close contact with and influence by such individuals. Lobaczewski terms such individuals characteropaths. The vast majority of both these groups cannot change. The acts that we call evil (especially on a macrosocial level) can be traced back to this deviant minority of human beings and the effects of their actions on their family, friends, and society.

    http://ponerology.com/

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    • Replies: @edNels
    What about people who think in cartoon images. To these guys, a building can fall straight down nice as can be, no problem with the physics, they don't really have spacial apperception, and really, to these it is construed more as a word problem, something that is solved in other dialectal ways. Importantly like your physco example, they will know how to mask their deficiencies, indeed, they have been trained by the system to work that device.

    In a culture based on larceny the crook is highly regarded… who said that in paraphse?

    Don't ever put any trust in someone who is gullible and believes in fairy tales, they got a screw loose, and lack mental integrity.

    PS: that looks like a good book there.
    , @WorkingClass

    The acts that we call evil (especially on a macrosocial level) can be traced back to this deviant minority of human beings and the effects of their actions on their family, friends, and society.
     
    My kid sister was murdered by one of these freaks. It got my attention. I heard the cops joking about the defense putting him on the stand. Like the jury would take one look at him and convict him. These "deviants" have a huge advantage over normal people when it comes to accruing wealth and power. The higher you go the more prevalent they are. I don't have the chops to write a political book. But I have the title. The Scum Also Rises.
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  160. @CanSpeccy

    Did a quick google…there are at least 4 blogs by engineers-physcists ripping to shreds the Claims of Steven Jones made in The European Journal of Physics. 9/11 Truthers were allowed to respond and as usual got their asses liked in during the debate.
     
    I wouldn't want anyone to have "liked" my ass, so I'm glad not to have participated in that discussion.

    Perhaps you would assist everyone here by articulating, first, the claims by Professor Steven E. Jones, that you refer to, and then explaining, briefly, how to the best of your understanding, those claims were "ripped to shreds."

    I'd frankly be surprised if you can do it, even with the aid of those engineer-physcist [sic] bloggers, since Professor Jones is a respected scientist, author of multiple publications in top science journals such as Nature, for example.

    But let's see.

    That’s true, Stephen Jones had I suppose a respectable scientific career. But his nanothermite study was torn to shreds by spectroscopy experts…a very detailed critique of the nanothermite study spectroscopy claims.

    Brian Josephson won the Nobel Prize in physics for his deep insight into semiconductor tunneling….nothwistanding, Brian Josephson is considered a crackpot among his colleagues for his “physics” explanation of Uri Geller’s telekinetic spoon bending. 9/11 Truth Scientist Judy Wood isn’t to far off from Josephson’s crackpottery. It is amusing to see the 9/11 Truther Scientists publicly trash each other over their claims as to how the TT collapse….and since you are most definitely channeling the psychotic Dr Judy Wood…PH.D. in structural engineering…well what does that make you? I mean Stephen Jones even thinks Judy Wood is a crackpot…Crackpots calling each other crackpots…I think we got a bona fide Monty Python skit here….

    Julian Schwinger has some interesting things to say about Cold Fusion….Schwinger is probably wrong…but for interesting reasons…

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    But his (Steven Jonesè) nanothermite study was torn to shreds by spectroscopy experts
     
    The lead author on the WTC dust/nanothermite journal article was the Danish scientist, Professor Neils Harritt. Harritt is a chemist and therefore the person whose expertise must chiefly be questioned if the published evidence of thermite in the WTC dust is to be challenged. I am unaware of any published study that refutes the above-linked Harritt et al. paper. Do you know of any such paper? If not, I doubt anyone has a basis for such a paper, since evidence to refute Harritt et al. would surely be highly publishable and would yield those responsible considerable kudos.

    But in any case, none of the arguments I have stated here is premised on the use of nanothermite in the destruction of the WTC. Nanothermite has been used in building demolition but only rarely I believe. Interestingly, NIST, which was contracted by the US Government to investigate the collapse of the WTC towers, has exceptional expertise with nanothermite.

    , @The Scalpel
    You admit to a group of people's scientific credentials, then dismiss their findings because they are, in your opinion, crackpots. You dismiss their theory because their is some scientific debate over the details (ever hear of Einstein or quantum theory?)

    Then of course, since the scientists are , in your opinion, "crackpots" , everyone who agrees with their theory is also a "crackpot"

    That there, WFBM, is some first class propagandizing. I don't know what your angle is. You are intelligent, but deceitful

    PS A physical theory to explain spoon bending might be a fun exercise and does not imply that the originator believed anyone telepathically bent spoons.
    , @restless94110
    What are you nattering about now?

    Because there are different conclusions about how the buildings were destroyed that means what to you? That they weren't blown down?

    No. It just means that there are different theories on how it was blown down.

    Stephen Jones conclusion about thermite and thermate in the dust of the WTC collapse has not been torn to shreds by anyone. In fact the opposite, it has been supported by thousands of engineers, demolition experts, physicists, architects, etc., etc.

    Judy Wood has some interesting theories, while she attempts to explain why parked cars were fried but not otherwise damaged (i.e., crushed) and also the odd dissolving of the final spire that can be seen at the bottom of the WTC1 collapse. However, her conclusions involve an as-yet unknown weapon (that she believes has a nuclear component), which may or may not exist, while Jones and the others point to a proven technology (thermite and cutter charges) that is already in use.

    Photos of the Isreali student's art project on the 91st floor show boxes and boxes of detonators stacked floor to ceiling in the room the students were using. It's pretty clear what happened.

    You act learned, but you never have a thing to back any of your claims up. Since thermite is used in demolition, no scientist can tear it to shreds. You stand corrected.
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  161. @Che Guava
    You get it wrong with the '...'.

    Whilst there is some reason for doubt on the Reichstag fire, the cases for Pearl Harbour and the 'Tonkin Gulf incident' are well established.

    Although the latter two are not at all parallel, at Pearl Harbour, many were sacrificed to drag the U.S.A. into the war, the Tonkin Gulf incident shades into the land of pure propaganda.

    There are parallels with Pearl Harbor, certainly, to facilitate a war that otherwise wouldn’t have occurred. But there is also parallel with Hiroshima, namely a weapons test meant to intimidate potential foreign adversaries.

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    I am not sure what you mean, I suppose your comparison is of the WTC incident with Pearl Harbour?

    If so, valid to an extent, but the informational tricks are almost like inverses in some ways.
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  162. iffen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty
    It is interesting to contrast the "holocaust", where even the most absurd eyewitness testimony is taken as sacrosanct and beyond reproach, with events like 9-11 (or OKC, etc.) where eyewitness testimony contradicting the official account is dismissed as "unreliable".

    The interesting contrast is between tens of thousands of witnesses as opposed to a handful.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    So, things like death by steam/electricity on conveyor belts, geysers of blood, human lamp shades, gas chambers with windows, etc.?
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  163. Rehmat says:
    @mcohen
    i love a good 911 conspiracy theory argument on the net.better than faulty towers for laughs.america the exceptional cannot grasp that its enemies would .....dare i say it......fight back.
    the russians control the no fly zone in syria.

    YES – criminals have the habit of calling people ‘conspiracy theorists’ who pull their dirty pants down.

    In August 2016, Russian REN-TV aired a new short film blaming Zionist Jews for committing the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.

    The film is claimed to be an updated version of a 2012 film which blamed Jews for committing various disasters such as the Sinking of the Titanic, a Rockefeller-Morgan conspiracy in order to create an international crisis, Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986 (here), and the 9/11.

    The film claims that Muslim Arabs were unjustly blamed for the September 11, 2001 attacks. Watch below an interview with Zionist prime minister Ehud Barak below showing the pre-knowledge of what is going to happen to Iraq, Libya, Syria, and Iran in the future.

    The commentators said the film was made to prove what is happening in the world today is exactly as predicted in the notorious The Protocols of the Elders of Zion published in Russia in 1903, which purports to be the leaked master plan for Jewish world domination….

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/08/23/russian-tv-jews-did-911/

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  164. @Rurik

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.
     
    what bodies?

    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane

    you're flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    what bodies?
    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane
    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

    Do a little more research. Most of the flight 93 bodies were identified and sent to their kin to be buried. I believe it was 8 that were unidentifiable — they are buried in Shanksville.

    How come I know more about this than you professional C-Theorists? Other than my BIL working as a CIA analyst, who let slip that Flight 93 was shot down?

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Do a little more research. Most of the flight 93 bodies were identified and sent to their kin to be buried.
     
    here's the local coroner describing what he saw at the "crash site".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCvuYDlDG_k

    he has since walked those comments back and said there were bodies all over the place. But you can tell he's scared.

    Other than my BIL working as a CIA analyst, who let slip that Flight 93 was shot down?
     
    you've said that before, and I hope it's not lost on you that what you're describing is a 'conspiracy theory' whereby the government and media, and local coroner and everybody involved from top to bottom has colluded in this lie to cover up what really happened to flight 93.

    OK ?

    and because of that, and your obvious willingness to concede such a 'conspiracy theory' is often spot on, I've always assumed you were just trolling when you show up and try to shill for the official version of events on that day. Which, come to think of it, is what I still think. ;)
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  165. peacenik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith
    I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST's explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It's like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened -- there was no such plane, just a crater.

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    The CGI versions are noteworthy. How did people on the ground, and at least two pilots, see those CGI jets?

    “I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST’s explanation is pure hell to disprove.”

    NIST’s explanation (that Building 7 collapsed due to office fires) is a load of bull that any high school student can disprove! Office fires never get hot enough to melt steel! And even if they did, you wouldn’t the symmetrical collapse that so evidently happened!

    The truth is out and no amount of BS rationalization is going to change the facts! So give it a rest, will you?

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    The truth is out and no amount of BS rationalization is going to change the facts! So give it a rest, will you?
     
    LOL. You are absolutely correct. No amount of BS rationalization is going to change the facts!
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  166. @peacenik
    "That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known . . ."

    Well-known?! Really?! On what evidence do you base your statement? You are just making things up . . . so I will say it again: you are a bare-faced liar!

    “That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known . . .”

    Well-known?! Really?! On what evidence do you base your statement? You are just making things up . . . so I will say it again: you are a bare-faced liar!

    And you are a credulous fool. Done with the name-calling yet? I’m good at it.

    Yes, the above fact is well-known by civil and structural engineers. That you would not know it is not altogether surprising.

    Read More
    • Replies: @peacenik
    Perhaps you can give everyone a reference to your so-called ". . . fact [that] is well-known by civil and structural engineers?

    Until you do that, it remains a statement of fact that you are a bare-faced liar!
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  167. @Beefcake the Mighty
    People who readily resort to name-calling and insults are typically on the losing side of argument.

    People who readily resort to name-calling and insults are typically on the losing side of argument.

    Not really — pretty much 50/50, imo. Did you include yourself in the “dumbass” group for some good reason? Maybe aliens from Proxima Centauri used a seekrut raygun to collapse the WTC?

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Thank you for proving my point. You remind me of a liberal who blows a fuse when Hillary's Wall St. connections are brought up.
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  168. @peacenik
    "I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST’s explanation is pure hell to disprove."

    NIST's explanation (that Building 7 collapsed due to office fires) is a load of bull that any high school student can disprove! Office fires never get hot enough to melt steel! And even if they did, you wouldn't the symmetrical collapse that so evidently happened!

    The truth is out and no amount of BS rationalization is going to change the facts! So give it a rest, will you?

    The truth is out and no amount of BS rationalization is going to change the facts! So give it a rest, will you?

    LOL. You are absolutely correct. No amount of BS rationalization is going to change the facts!

    Read More
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  169. @John Jeremiah Smith


    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally
     
    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don’t topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.
     
    You mean, like if the seekrutly-planted demolition on the lower floors had detonated early, out of the seekrutly-planned sequence?

    “You mean, like if the seekrutly-planted demolition on the lower floors had detonated early, out of the seekrutly-planned sequence?”

    The shit above the crippling blast would still have fallen straight down from its CG above in absence of a meaningful force to torque it to the side. Ever wonder why so many people drop trees on their houses?

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    The shit above the crippling blast would still have fallen straight down from its CG above in absence of a meaningful force to torque it to the side. Ever wonder why so many people drop trees on their houses?
     
    Because trees fall straight down, crumbling into the bottom of the trunk?

    If the bottom floor demolition charges detonated early, it is quite likely the building would fall to the side. However, I'll make it easy. Suppose the charges on the bottom 3 floors only detonated on one side? Over she goes, and takes out half of downtown Manhattan. The vertical collapse was extremely fortuitous. The notion that experts in building takedowns would sneak around in closets and equipment rooms. planting C-4 and miles of wiring, all of which had to be concealed, and never tested? Perfect synchronization, never tested? Horseshit!

    So, the seekrut conspiracy spends six months planting demolition charges in the two towers -- nobody notices from building engineering services? Getoutatown, that's bullshit. Why plant charges in Bldg 7 at all? With the gubmint and CIA in there an all. Whuffo? And, detonate Bldg 7 eight hours later? Whuffo? Getoutatown, that's bullshit.

    Look, for me to fuss with wackies is entertaining, but silly. I feel a little soiled, but there corned beef and cabbage on the table, served by a beautiful and interesting woman. C-ya.
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  170. Sam Shama says:

    So here goes: [quick writing so pardon any obvious errors]

    On 9/11, at least three commercial airliners with passengers took off for various destinations. These planes were then quickly taken over by special agents – “elements of the administration, CIA, NSA, Mossad”- commandeered to a secret location -naturally, this secret destination, deep underground and built for this very purpose years earlier was a small replica of the USAF central command – where passengers and crew were disembarked, liquidated, or, set up with new identities spirited away to lives at sunny destinations accompanied by drinks with little umbrellas stuck on cherries. On the whole, one would pick the liquidation option, given the participation of Anglo-Judaics of prudent stock raised in the habits of parsimony. The planes were thereafter switched on for fully remote-controlled flight. There had been some discussion whether aircraft need be used at all; alternative c-g imagery being quite available with a decade having passed since Jurassic Park, but the genuine articles won the day owing to the curmudgeons “higher-up” prevailing over the millennials in the circle.

    The reader is to be reminded that the purpose of the operation was to create an incident sufficient in magnitude so as to unleash the public’s wrath and the consequent dogs of war – GW and Cheney never tired of reminding the plotters of this essential bit. The millennials thought it ample persuasion, crashing the planes with the ensuing fires, but as usual the curmudgeons weren’t having any of it. The financial aspect was strangely missing. Someone knew Larry Silverstein. Calls had been made and payoffs negotiated with no agreement for months. Larry even threatened to call off the entire thing, noting that his share was insufficient, given the overtime he’d have to pay the demolition crew. Goldman Sachs was brought in, valuations simulated for days and the figure of $4.55B was obtained. Goldman took the customary 5%. The millennials had been making some noise about the plane crashes possibly disengaging the controlled demolition charges. This was roundly dismissed by the curmudgeons who advised the Mills to stop faffing about and get back to video games.

    So the remotely operated planes re-taking off from the secret pacific Island unerringly made their ways to the WTC, the Pentagon, and, the White House. Midway through the flights, it was discovered that the First Lady and important VIPs including the POTUS’ canines were still at 1600 Penn Ave. GWB understandably threw a fit and threatened Texan reprisals. The problem was easily solved as it only required a flight diversion to a field in rural PA. Millennials quite cannily concocted “Let’s Roll”. Trade-marked tee-shirts with the banner fetched handsome and continuing revenues.

    End of Part I.

    P.S. : Are we to have a citizens’ inquiry? If so, I hereby nominate R&R as co-chairs.

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    • Replies: @anonymous

    quick writing
     
    It shows.
    , @CanSpeccy

    So here goes: [quick writing so pardon any obvious errors]
     
    "Any obvious errors".

    LOL. The whole piece is drivel.

    Incidentally, there seems no reason to doubt that the passengers aboard the highjacked airliners did indeed die, since positive DNA identification of most if not all victims was made by, e.g., the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology DNA lab in Rockville, Md.

    , @Rurik

    USAF central command – where passengers and crew were disembarked, liquidated, or, set up with new identities spirited away to lives at sunny destinations accompanied by drinks with little umbrellas stuck on cherries.
     
    Hi Sam,

    yea, I used that term 'liquidated' intentionally

    I wanted to tweak something in the normal human centers of compassion for all of us non-psychopaths to try to get us to glimmer the mind of a true psychopath. For psychopaths- like the ones who drone weddings to send a message of terror to peasants- not to mess with the US, or who machine gun local guys standing around bullshitting on the streets of their city, liquidating civilians is nothing. As Waco was brought up earlier in this thread, we already know our government would not only liquidate, but cynically burn alive men, women and children- to send a message across America that you don't mess with the US Fecal government, or else. The same message they sent to journalists when they assassinated Michael Hastings.

    These are the real-deal psychopaths who play for keeps. Handing chemical weapons to foreign terrorists in Syria to use on children is child's play for them. They don't bat an eye. It gives them neither pleasure or discomfort of any kind to push a button on people, (men, women or children). All they do is see their self-interest and pursue it, period.

    So yea, I don't know if they landed and disembarked the passengers on that day, or if they sent the jets with them inside into the buildings. The first scenario simply seems more likely to me, but then that's one we may never know. What we do know is that human life is insignificant to these people, who plan wars and in Hillary' case; gloat over men tortured to death. And I don't just mean ambassador Stevens, but Gadhafi too.

    They're not like you and me. They're a special breed, and the kind of power that can be wielded by the people with the US military at their fingertips, is irresistible to men and women like that.

    Just consider Lucky Larry. He had the PA system in the second tower tell all the people to go back to their offices, knowing a second plane was on its way, and wanting the maximum number of casualties. These were people he knew, and spoke to daily. And he cynically wanted for as many of them to die horribly as he could accomplish. Would it make it any worse if he called it "liquidating" them?
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  171. @CanSpeccy

    I wouldn’t be talking about ignorance of physics and “equal and opposite action” if I was you.
     
    "If I was you" I'd learn the difference between the past tense and the conditional tense. But that's just me.

    What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it’s velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has “disintegrated” or not.
     
    Oh, yes, so you think that a shower of dust was all it took to bring down the towers.

    The only thing that matters is how much is ejected sideways and no longer lands on the lower floors. From the pictures and all the caterwauling about “it looks like a controlled demolition” there isn’t much ejected sideways.
     
    No there's not much ejected sideways, except about 99% as shown in this image. But look, physics isn't a sort of do-it-yourself thing that you make up as you go along. Do try to understand what those qualified people such as David Chandler or Steven Jones who you ridicule are saying. They have actually studied physics.

    What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it’s velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has “disintegrated” or not.

    Oh, yes, so you think that a shower of dust was all it took to bring down the towers.

    Ah, I find your misunderstanding of this very interesting. Perhaps it explains a lot of the C-Theorists’ type of wackiness.

    One hundred tons of dust weighs 100 tons. It is the same mass, dust or not.

    But, you don’t get that, do you? Interesting.

    Oh, well. This is enough for this time around with you nutcakes. I am uncomfortable remembering the adage that arguing with a fool proves only that there are two.

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    One hundred tons of dust weighs 100 tons. It is the same mass, dust or not.
     
    Yes, but before it became dust, it did not cause the towers to collapse, so why would it do so after transformation to dust? It could conceivably have done so only if it had a high downward acceleration and all of it impinged on the standing portion of the tower below the fire zone. But it is evident from videos of the collapsing towers that the dust was not, for the most part, driven explosively downward, but explosively in all directions. Thus, of the mass of dust created, a rather small percentage appears to have impinged on the tower below the fire zone.
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  172. Re; Jeremiah John Smith, & “aliens from Proxima Centauri use of seekrut raygun to collapse Towers.”

    Very cool!
    One thing for sure, the 19- fanatical “ragheads” did not collapse the Twin (+1) Towers on 9-11.

    America’s enemy #1 is a global criminal cartel and not a religion.

    Unfortunately, the former-U.S.A. must now wait for the next (False Flag) seekrut-shoe to drop, and it does not look good for the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    Refer to WSJ article (below) written by a fellow who writes for a Proxima Centauri Think (Ahead) Tank!

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/by-all-means-take-mosul-but-1477263327

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    Unfortunately, the former-U.S.A. must now wait for the next (False Flag) seekrut-shoe to drop, and it does not look good for the Islamic Republic of Iran.
     
    Yeah. Since Iran has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo, ya gotta wonder about the constant hard-on for anything BUT Iran.

    Go figger.
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  173. According the 9/11 Truther structural engineering experts the Loizeaux Family(America’s favorite Demolition Family!!!)-who have decisively refuted the 9/11 Truther claims about a controlled demolition taking down the TT and Building 7-are part of the vast cover-up conspiracy, and therefore must be telekinetically mind controlled by the translucent glowing corpse of Prescott Bush down in the Dark Dank Basement of Yale’s Skull and Bones House!!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Si1ver1ock
    @War for Blair Mountain:

    Thousands of architects, engineers and physicists say you are wrong. Why not have a real forensic investigation and get to the bottom of the issue in a public forum? If it is as open a shut a case as you like to say, your side should win easily.

    Why is it wrong for us 911 Truthers to want accountability from our government officials? Why can't you join with us in asking for a new investigation. For example:

    Why won't the government release the tapes of the Pentagon?

    Was there a defense system in place to defend the Pentagon? Missile defense or something?

    Did it work? If not, why not?

    If you are an honest person who cares about the Truth, why not support an honest forensic investigation?


    Simply mocking people is not a valid argument.
    , @RaceRealist88
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU_43SwWD9A
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  174. Ex-Saffer says:

    I took a look at the NIST WTC7 report. The first thing that struck me is that it was put together largely to make recommendations to prevent a repeat of what happened to Building 7. See, this is an example of real-world scientists solving real-world problems. They know that there are legions of schoolboys out there who will quickly detect that their report is “a load of bull,” but the scientists don’t care. The business at hand is to devise new building codes and regulations, and write them into law.

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  175. I know one thing.

    An article about 9/11 is sure to get one hell of a lot of response.

    Solid GOLD clickbait!

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  176. @The Alarmist

    "You mean, like if the seekrutly-planted demolition on the lower floors had detonated early, out of the seekrutly-planned sequence?"
     
    The shit above the crippling blast would still have fallen straight down from its CG above in absence of a meaningful force to torque it to the side. Ever wonder why so many people drop trees on their houses?

    The shit above the crippling blast would still have fallen straight down from its CG above in absence of a meaningful force to torque it to the side. Ever wonder why so many people drop trees on their houses?

    Because trees fall straight down, crumbling into the bottom of the trunk?

    If the bottom floor demolition charges detonated early, it is quite likely the building would fall to the side. However, I’ll make it easy. Suppose the charges on the bottom 3 floors only detonated on one side? Over she goes, and takes out half of downtown Manhattan. The vertical collapse was extremely fortuitous. The notion that experts in building takedowns would sneak around in closets and equipment rooms. planting C-4 and miles of wiring, all of which had to be concealed, and never tested? Perfect synchronization, never tested? Horseshit!

    So, the seekrut conspiracy spends six months planting demolition charges in the two towers — nobody notices from building engineering services? Getoutatown, that’s bullshit. Why plant charges in Bldg 7 at all? With the gubmint and CIA in there an all. Whuffo? And, detonate Bldg 7 eight hours later? Whuffo? Getoutatown, that’s bullshit.

    Look, for me to fuss with wackies is entertaining, but silly. I feel a little soiled, but there corned beef and cabbage on the table, served by a beautiful and interesting woman. C-ya.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Why plant charges in Bldg 7 at all?
     
    ask Lucky Larry

    we don't know the why of it and we don't need to

    what we know is that they did it. Building seven is the smoking gun. They fucked up and now we know they did it. All your blather in defense of the people who did it is quite telling.
    , @restless94110
    Hey, whack job,

    Just because you can't figure out how they did it, doesn't mean it wasn't done.

    Laws of physics decree the buildings were brought down. Period. There can be no other explanation. Due to the laws of physics.

    You can snark your way all the way out of town, mocking how it would be impossible for this and that thing to have been planted or set up, but you know nothing about it, and either do we.

    That's why they have investigations, whacko boy.

    You start with the crime: the buildings were obviously taken down. Then you investigate to find out if you can, the how and the why.

    You don't start from the why or the how and say: Duh, that's impossible, so duh de dum dum, the buildings didn't come down!

    I thought you were tired of commenting on this thread, whacko. Who's paying you to keep it up?
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  177. @Chuck Orloski
    Re; Jeremiah John Smith, & "aliens from Proxima Centauri use of seekrut raygun to collapse Towers."

    Very cool!
    One thing for sure, the 19- fanatical "ragheads" did not collapse the Twin (+1) Towers on 9-11.

    America's enemy #1 is a global criminal cartel and not a religion.

    Unfortunately, the former-U.S.A. must now wait for the next (False Flag) seekrut-shoe to drop, and it does not look good for the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    Refer to WSJ article (below) written by a fellow who writes for a Proxima Centauri Think (Ahead) Tank!

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/by-all-means-take-mosul-but-1477263327

    Unfortunately, the former-U.S.A. must now wait for the next (False Flag) seekrut-shoe to drop, and it does not look good for the Islamic Republic of Iran.

    Yeah. Since Iran has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo, ya gotta wonder about the constant hard-on for anything BUT Iran.

    Go figger.

    Read More
    • Replies: @L.K
    John Jeremiah Smith "Since Iran has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo"

    Let me help you a bit, fool... take my hand, so you don't fall flat on your face & break that Pinocchio nose of yours, and let's change your previous sentence just one bit, so that for once, you'll get it right:

    "Since ISRAEL has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo"

    Now you got it! Good boy.
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  178. edNels says:
    @Anon
    Introduction to "Political Ponerology"

    INTRODUCTION

    “Experience has taught the author that evil is similar to disease in nature, although possibly more complex and elusive to our understanding. Its genesis reveals many factors, pathological, especially psychopathological, in character, whose essence medicine and psychology have already studied… [A] comprehension of the essence and genesis of evil generally makes use of data from [biology, medicine, and psychology]. Philosophical reflection alone is insufficient.” (Lobaczewski, 98)

    Like a color blind man incapable of distinguishing red from green, a small minority of the human population cannot experience or fully comprehend the normal range of human emotions. And like those color blind who may conceal their condition by using the correct words while not understanding their meaning (e.g., the top traffic light is “red”, the bottom is “green”) - so does this minority conceal their condition by playacting an emotion's exterior signs (facial expressions, exclamations, body language). However, they do not actually experience the emotion in question. Their deception is revealed in the laboratory, where they respond to words like DEATH, CANCER, DISEASE, as if they were DAY, CREAM, or PAPER. They lack the ability to comprehend the emotional “punch” that certain words contain. They use others’ emotional reactions as cues, and they adjust their behavior to portray the correct ‘emotional’ behavior. (Hare, 129-30)

    These individuals are known as psychopaths. Not only can they not feel the pain of others, they often seem to deliberately cause others pain. Lobaczewski refers to this disorder as an “essential psychopathy” to distinguish them from others with deficits in their genetic/instinctual endowment, essential psychopathy being the most severe and disturbing.

    Many so-called “antisocial individuals” acquire similar characteristics in their life-time, whether caused by brain damage to certain areas of the brain, or functionally, because of close contact with and influence by such individuals. Lobaczewski terms such individuals characteropaths. The vast majority of both these groups cannot change. The acts that we call evil (especially on a macrosocial level) can be traced back to this deviant minority of human beings and the effects of their actions on their family, friends, and society.

    http://ponerology.com/

    What about people who think in cartoon images. To these guys, a building can fall straight down nice as can be, no problem with the physics, they don’t really have spacial apperception, and really, to these it is construed more as a word problem, something that is solved in other dialectal ways. Importantly like your physco example, they will know how to mask their deficiencies, indeed, they have been trained by the system to work that device.

    In a culture based on larceny the crook is highly regarded… who said that in paraphse?

    Don’t ever put any trust in someone who is gullible and believes in fairy tales, they got a screw loose, and lack mental integrity.

    PS: that looks like a good book there.

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  179. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @War for Blair Mountain
    That's true, Stephen Jones had I suppose a respectable scientific career. But his nanothermite study was torn to shreds by spectroscopy experts...a very detailed critique of the nanothermite study spectroscopy claims.


    Brian Josephson won the Nobel Prize in physics for his deep insight into semiconductor tunneling....nothwistanding, Brian Josephson is considered a crackpot among his colleagues for his "physics" explanation of Uri Geller's telekinetic spoon bending. 9/11 Truth Scientist Judy Wood isn't to far off from Josephson's crackpottery. It is amusing to see the 9/11 Truther Scientists publicly trash each other over their claims as to how the TT collapse....and since you are most definitely channeling the psychotic Dr Judy Wood...PH.D. in structural engineering...well what does that make you? I mean Stephen Jones even thinks Judy Wood is a crackpot...Crackpots calling each other crackpots...I think we got a bona fide Monty Python skit here....



    Julian Schwinger has some interesting things to say about Cold Fusion....Schwinger is probably wrong...but for interesting reasons...

    But his (Steven Jonesè) nanothermite study was torn to shreds by spectroscopy experts

    The lead author on the WTC dust/nanothermite journal article was the Danish scientist, Professor Neils Harritt. Harritt is a chemist and therefore the person whose expertise must chiefly be questioned if the published evidence of thermite in the WTC dust is to be challenged. I am unaware of any published study that refutes the above-linked Harritt et al. paper. Do you know of any such paper? If not, I doubt anyone has a basis for such a paper, since evidence to refute Harritt et al. would surely be highly publishable and would yield those responsible considerable kudos.

    But in any case, none of the arguments I have stated here is premised on the use of nanothermite in the destruction of the WTC. Nanothermite has been used in building demolition but only rarely I believe. Interestingly, NIST, which was contracted by the US Government to investigate the collapse of the WTC towers, has exceptional expertise with nanothermite.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama

    Harritt is a chemist and therefore the person whose expertise must chiefly be questioned if the published evidence of thermite in the WTC dust is to be challenged.

    I am unaware of any published study that refutes the above-linked Harritt et al. paper. Do you know of any such paper?

     

    A chemist at the local drugstore tells us of a study he published in the subscription-based open journal of Chemistry at Timbuktu University. It demonstrated that gold is the output of subjecting iron to a precise temperature in an emulsion of natural gas. To put everything in a business footing, I'd suggest you to buy shares in the venture....
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  180. peacenik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith


    “That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known . . .”
     
    Well-known?! Really?! On what evidence do you base your statement? You are just making things up . . . so I will say it again: you are a bare-faced liar!
     
    And you are a credulous fool. Done with the name-calling yet? I'm good at it.

    Yes, the above fact is well-known by civil and structural engineers. That you would not know it is not altogether surprising.

    Perhaps you can give everyone a reference to your so-called “. . . fact [that] is well-known by civil and structural engineers?

    Until you do that, it remains a statement of fact that you are a bare-faced liar!

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  181. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Sam Shama
    So here goes: [quick writing so pardon any obvious errors]

    On 9/11, at least three commercial airliners with passengers took off for various destinations. These planes were then quickly taken over by special agents - "elements of the administration, CIA, NSA, Mossad"- commandeered to a secret location -naturally, this secret destination, deep underground and built for this very purpose years earlier was a small replica of the USAF central command - where passengers and crew were disembarked, liquidated, or, set up with new identities spirited away to lives at sunny destinations accompanied by drinks with little umbrellas stuck on cherries. On the whole, one would pick the liquidation option, given the participation of Anglo-Judaics of prudent stock raised in the habits of parsimony. The planes were thereafter switched on for fully remote-controlled flight. There had been some discussion whether aircraft need be used at all; alternative c-g imagery being quite available with a decade having passed since Jurassic Park, but the genuine articles won the day owing to the curmudgeons "higher-up" prevailing over the millennials in the circle.

    The reader is to be reminded that the purpose of the operation was to create an incident sufficient in magnitude so as to unleash the public's wrath and the consequent dogs of war - GW and Cheney never tired of reminding the plotters of this essential bit. The millennials thought it ample persuasion, crashing the planes with the ensuing fires, but as usual the curmudgeons weren't having any of it. The financial aspect was strangely missing. Someone knew Larry Silverstein. Calls had been made and payoffs negotiated with no agreement for months. Larry even threatened to call off the entire thing, noting that his share was insufficient, given the overtime he'd have to pay the demolition crew. Goldman Sachs was brought in, valuations simulated for days and the figure of $4.55B was obtained. Goldman took the customary 5%. The millennials had been making some noise about the plane crashes possibly disengaging the controlled demolition charges. This was roundly dismissed by the curmudgeons who advised the Mills to stop faffing about and get back to video games.

    So the remotely operated planes re-taking off from the secret pacific Island unerringly made their ways to the WTC, the Pentagon, and, the White House. Midway through the flights, it was discovered that the First Lady and important VIPs including the POTUS' canines were still at 1600 Penn Ave. GWB understandably threw a fit and threatened Texan reprisals. The problem was easily solved as it only required a flight diversion to a field in rural PA. Millennials quite cannily concocted "Let's Roll". Trade-marked tee-shirts with the banner fetched handsome and continuing revenues.

    End of Part I.

    P.S. : Are we to have a citizens' inquiry? If so, I hereby nominate R&R as co-chairs.

    quick writing

    It shows.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Still better than your own never ending Nazi propaganda :-)
    , @SolontoCroesus
    since Ron executed multiple handles, unable to post as Anonymous.

    vid:


    Anonymous doesn't seem to be your usual commenter name, and this website requires commenters to either use their sole Handle, or else use Anonymous or Anon. Please check for typos and retry, or contact us if you believe some mistake has been made.
    RETURN TO COMMENTING BOX
     
    your paranoia is showing, Sam.
    It's also affecting your creativity: humorous your "quick writing" was not.
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  182. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @John Jeremiah Smith


    What matters is the mass being pulled straight down by the force of gravity and it’s velocity. It is still the same mass regardless of whether it has “disintegrated” or not.

     

    Oh, yes, so you think that a shower of dust was all it took to bring down the towers.
     
    Ah, I find your misunderstanding of this very interesting. Perhaps it explains a lot of the C-Theorists' type of wackiness.

    One hundred tons of dust weighs 100 tons. It is the same mass, dust or not.

    But, you don't get that, do you? Interesting.

    Oh, well. This is enough for this time around with you nutcakes. I am uncomfortable remembering the adage that arguing with a fool proves only that there are two.

    One hundred tons of dust weighs 100 tons. It is the same mass, dust or not.

    Yes, but before it became dust, it did not cause the towers to collapse, so why would it do so after transformation to dust? It could conceivably have done so only if it had a high downward acceleration and all of it impinged on the standing portion of the tower below the fire zone. But it is evident from videos of the collapsing towers that the dust was not, for the most part, driven explosively downward, but explosively in all directions. Thus, of the mass of dust created, a rather small percentage appears to have impinged on the tower below the fire zone.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    So you weighed the amount of material ejected and the amount still within the building perimeter?

    No you didn't and that picture means nothing. There are plenty of solid elements like steel supports in the floor simliar to the floor joists in your house. I doubt they were ejected sideways.

    This building is designed so that the main superstructure supports the weight of the building and each floor is somewhat independent and carries none of the load of the floors above. The floor can be easily sheared off from the superstructure since the supports were probably only designed to carry a load equal to 3 times the weight of the floor.
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  183. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sam Shama
    So here goes: [quick writing so pardon any obvious errors]

    On 9/11, at least three commercial airliners with passengers took off for various destinations. These planes were then quickly taken over by special agents - "elements of the administration, CIA, NSA, Mossad"- commandeered to a secret location -naturally, this secret destination, deep underground and built for this very purpose years earlier was a small replica of the USAF central command - where passengers and crew were disembarked, liquidated, or, set up with new identities spirited away to lives at sunny destinations accompanied by drinks with little umbrellas stuck on cherries. On the whole, one would pick the liquidation option, given the participation of Anglo-Judaics of prudent stock raised in the habits of parsimony. The planes were thereafter switched on for fully remote-controlled flight. There had been some discussion whether aircraft need be used at all; alternative c-g imagery being quite available with a decade having passed since Jurassic Park, but the genuine articles won the day owing to the curmudgeons "higher-up" prevailing over the millennials in the circle.

    The reader is to be reminded that the purpose of the operation was to create an incident sufficient in magnitude so as to unleash the public's wrath and the consequent dogs of war - GW and Cheney never tired of reminding the plotters of this essential bit. The millennials thought it ample persuasion, crashing the planes with the ensuing fires, but as usual the curmudgeons weren't having any of it. The financial aspect was strangely missing. Someone knew Larry Silverstein. Calls had been made and payoffs negotiated with no agreement for months. Larry even threatened to call off the entire thing, noting that his share was insufficient, given the overtime he'd have to pay the demolition crew. Goldman Sachs was brought in, valuations simulated for days and the figure of $4.55B was obtained. Goldman took the customary 5%. The millennials had been making some noise about the plane crashes possibly disengaging the controlled demolition charges. This was roundly dismissed by the curmudgeons who advised the Mills to stop faffing about and get back to video games.

    So the remotely operated planes re-taking off from the secret pacific Island unerringly made their ways to the WTC, the Pentagon, and, the White House. Midway through the flights, it was discovered that the First Lady and important VIPs including the POTUS' canines were still at 1600 Penn Ave. GWB understandably threw a fit and threatened Texan reprisals. The problem was easily solved as it only required a flight diversion to a field in rural PA. Millennials quite cannily concocted "Let's Roll". Trade-marked tee-shirts with the banner fetched handsome and continuing revenues.

    End of Part I.

    P.S. : Are we to have a citizens' inquiry? If so, I hereby nominate R&R as co-chairs.

    So here goes: [quick writing so pardon any obvious errors]

    “Any obvious errors”.

    LOL. The whole piece is drivel.

    Incidentally, there seems no reason to doubt that the passengers aboard the highjacked airliners did indeed die, since positive DNA identification of most if not all victims was made by, e.g., the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology DNA lab in Rockville, Md.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    But...but I thought you and fellow theorists claimed remotely controlled empty planes. Ah, the penny just dropped : DNA evidence was planted .......
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  184. Sam Shama says:
    @anonymous

    quick writing
     
    It shows.

    Still better than your own never ending Nazi propaganda :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Speaking of Nazi propaganda, we are forever hearing about how that peace-loving Hitler was "forced" into war.


    In late August 1936, he wrote a lengthy secret memo concerning the future direction of economic policy. It adopted the essentials of Göring’s position and concluded with a pair of unambiguous commands: “1. The German army must be capable of being deployed in four years. 2. The German economy must be capable of waging war in four years.”
     
    Oh wait! I am sure he was talking about a "defensive war." Wink. Wink.

    Such a smart man, he knew Russia would not attack in 1 year, not 2 years, not 3 years, but in exactly 4 years. How did he know so much about the future?
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  185. Sam Shama says:
    @CanSpeccy

    So here goes: [quick writing so pardon any obvious errors]
     
    "Any obvious errors".

    LOL. The whole piece is drivel.

    Incidentally, there seems no reason to doubt that the passengers aboard the highjacked airliners did indeed die, since positive DNA identification of most if not all victims was made by, e.g., the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology DNA lab in Rockville, Md.

    But…but I thought you and fellow theorists claimed remotely controlled empty planes. Ah, the penny just dropped : DNA evidence was planted …….

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    but I thought you and fellow theorists ...
     
    So, you start from a mistaken assumption and you arrive, naturally, at a mistaken conclusion.

    I take responsibility only for my own statements. That there are crackpots who say this, that or the other is not my fault. To suggest that I am part of a fellowship of theorists is as unwarranted as my suggesting that you work for the Mossad or the CIA. Whereof one has no evidence, thereof one is wisest not to speak.
    , @SolontoCroesus

    DNA evidence was planted …….
     
    DNA as in biology or DNA as in nudge in the direction of cultural trends ?
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  186. KenH says:

    There’s nothing wrong with being skeptical of the government’s version of 9-11. The “9-11 happened just like the gubmint said it did or you are a demented truther” zealots seem to forget that “our” government not only withholds information from the citizenry but is pathologically dishonest. Some of these zealots question the government on other things but suddenly turn into pro-government goose steppers when the subject of 9-11 arises.

    To be sure there are some zany 9-11 theories such as the Freemasons or the Illuminati did it, but there are credible researchers and organizations who have raised very valid questions which should cast doubt on the official version. There are too many peculiarities and anomalies to simply slam the door shut on an event which has radically the changed the structure of our government and is potentially leading us to WWIII.

    Even FOX News reported that the DEA uncovered a plot by Mossad agents posing as art students who were following hijackers in the days leading up to 9-11-01. So at minimum Israel and perhaps elements of the U.S. and Saudi Arabian intelligence had foreknowledge of the event.

    Personally, I don’t see how nineteen Arabs can go from camels to the cockpits of jumbo jets. To my knowledge none of them had ever piloted a jumbo jet and you don’t go from training on single engine prop planes to flying jumbo jets will the dexterity of Chesly Sullenberger .

    Also see:
    My Journey: From Camel Jockey to Terrorist Mastermind and 9-11 Hijacker
    By: Mohammed “Mo” Atta

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  187. Mulegino1 says:

    “Whenever you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains – however improbable – must be the truth.” Arthur Conan Doyle

    Commercial airliners, being mostly light, thin aluminum, largely hollow and ductile, are no match for gigantic structural steel perimeter box columns and concrete floor pans. Most of their components would have been shredded to pieces upon impact with the Twin Towers, and fallen to the street below the point of impact. (The story of the impact on the Pentagon by the “Boeing 757″ is so totally ridiculous it has, for all practical purposes, been relegated to the memory hole.)

    Neither hydrocarbon based fires initiated by jet fuel “fireballs” – nor “nanothermite” – have the energy available to cause most of the Twin Towers’ (and Building 6′s) steel and concrete cores to undergo molecular dissociation and blanket lower Manhattan as dust clouds, nor to create temperatures many times greater than those on the surface of the sun (bedrock and concrete were melted), nor to cause self-fueling underground fires which burned FOR MONTHS after 9/11.

    Commercial airliner impacts do not cause electromagnetic pulse effects, which occurred on 9/11, when the metallic components of automobiles in the immediate vicinity not struck by any debris nor close to any fires burst into flames.

    The official narrative of 9/11 is a very crude lie, concocted by non-specialist presstitutes and government hacks. It can only survive as a larger than life, meta-historical event. Once brought down to the level of physical fact and forensic scrutiny, it collapses.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Most of their components would have been shredded to pieces upon impact with the Twin Towers, and fallen to the street below the point of impact.

    This is a really stupid comment that shows someone who knows nothing about physics and is even willing to pretend what he saw with his own eyes isn't real.

    A plane flew into a building and almost all of it ended inside the building. The kinetic energy of that plane as well as the energy released by the fire remained inside the building. THAT IS A FACT.
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  188. @Anon
    Introduction to "Political Ponerology"

    INTRODUCTION

    “Experience has taught the author that evil is similar to disease in nature, although possibly more complex and elusive to our understanding. Its genesis reveals many factors, pathological, especially psychopathological, in character, whose essence medicine and psychology have already studied… [A] comprehension of the essence and genesis of evil generally makes use of data from [biology, medicine, and psychology]. Philosophical reflection alone is insufficient.” (Lobaczewski, 98)

    Like a color blind man incapable of distinguishing red from green, a small minority of the human population cannot experience or fully comprehend the normal range of human emotions. And like those color blind who may conceal their condition by using the correct words while not understanding their meaning (e.g., the top traffic light is “red”, the bottom is “green”) - so does this minority conceal their condition by playacting an emotion's exterior signs (facial expressions, exclamations, body language). However, they do not actually experience the emotion in question. Their deception is revealed in the laboratory, where they respond to words like DEATH, CANCER, DISEASE, as if they were DAY, CREAM, or PAPER. They lack the ability to comprehend the emotional “punch” that certain words contain. They use others’ emotional reactions as cues, and they adjust their behavior to portray the correct ‘emotional’ behavior. (Hare, 129-30)

    These individuals are known as psychopaths. Not only can they not feel the pain of others, they often seem to deliberately cause others pain. Lobaczewski refers to this disorder as an “essential psychopathy” to distinguish them from others with deficits in their genetic/instinctual endowment, essential psychopathy being the most severe and disturbing.

    Many so-called “antisocial individuals” acquire similar characteristics in their life-time, whether caused by brain damage to certain areas of the brain, or functionally, because of close contact with and influence by such individuals. Lobaczewski terms such individuals characteropaths. The vast majority of both these groups cannot change. The acts that we call evil (especially on a macrosocial level) can be traced back to this deviant minority of human beings and the effects of their actions on their family, friends, and society.

    http://ponerology.com/

    The acts that we call evil (especially on a macrosocial level) can be traced back to this deviant minority of human beings and the effects of their actions on their family, friends, and society.

    My kid sister was murdered by one of these freaks. It got my attention. I heard the cops joking about the defense putting him on the stand. Like the jury would take one look at him and convict him. These “deviants” have a huge advantage over normal people when it comes to accruing wealth and power. The higher you go the more prevalent they are. I don’t have the chops to write a political book. But I have the title. The Scum Also Rises.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    There is an old French saying
    Society is like a stew. The scum rises to the top, the dregs fall to the bottom and the good meat and vegetables are in between.

    But with affirmative action, the dregs are artificially raised to the top and join the scum.
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  189. The official government version of the 9/11 conspiracy is pure bunkum.

    Period.

    PS: Operation Northwoods.

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  190. Sam Shama says:
    @CanSpeccy

    But his (Steven Jonesè) nanothermite study was torn to shreds by spectroscopy experts
     
    The lead author on the WTC dust/nanothermite journal article was the Danish scientist, Professor Neils Harritt. Harritt is a chemist and therefore the person whose expertise must chiefly be questioned if the published evidence of thermite in the WTC dust is to be challenged. I am unaware of any published study that refutes the above-linked Harritt et al. paper. Do you know of any such paper? If not, I doubt anyone has a basis for such a paper, since evidence to refute Harritt et al. would surely be highly publishable and would yield those responsible considerable kudos.

    But in any case, none of the arguments I have stated here is premised on the use of nanothermite in the destruction of the WTC. Nanothermite has been used in building demolition but only rarely I believe. Interestingly, NIST, which was contracted by the US Government to investigate the collapse of the WTC towers, has exceptional expertise with nanothermite.

    Harritt is a chemist and therefore the person whose expertise must chiefly be questioned if the published evidence of thermite in the WTC dust is to be challenged.

    I am unaware of any published study that refutes the above-linked Harritt et al. paper. Do you know of any such paper?

    A chemist at the local drugstore tells us of a study he published in the subscription-based open journal of Chemistry at Timbuktu University. It demonstrated that gold is the output of subjecting iron to a precise temperature in an emulsion of natural gas. To put everything in a business footing, I’d suggest you to buy shares in the venture….

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  191. @peacenik
    Phillip,

    If you really want to get a handle on what occurred on sept 11, 2001, check out Christopher Bollyn's research. I think he is onto something . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyLyGXQUIo0

    Bravo for mentioning Bollyn!

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  192. Oldeguy says:
    @AnalogMan
    So, let me see if I follow your argument.

    If you don't know all the answers, then you know nothing.

    If you know nothing, then the 9/11 Commission report is correct in all respects.

    Q.E.D.

    I used to enjoy your writing, but lately you seem to have lost the plot. It's no disgrace; dementia comes to all who live long enough.

    We don't need to know every detail of who did what, and how, and who knew about it. All we need is one obvious lie to discredit the official story. Start with Building 7. No we don't know exactly what happened. Obviously, there are many hypotheses, and some of them are crazy. So is the official story.

    All we are asking for is an honest investigation, with the results published and the guilty punished.

    Pretty much my response. Something, I know not what, is amiss with Our Favorite Expatriate.
    Not being sure of what really happened in an event this pivotal is a reason to proceed with further discussion and investigation- not to shut it down.
    The most successful, by far, commando operation in history performed flawlessly by a bunch of guys with boxcutters directed by cell phone by a fugitive hiding out in a cave in Afghanistan ?
    On the the face of it, that matches the goofiest of any of the conspiracy theories.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    On the the face of it, that [the theory about 19 guys with box-cutters under the direction of fugitive in a cave in Afghanistan] matches the goofiest of any of the conspiracy theories.
     
    And even the members of the 9/11 Commission have admitted they don't really believe it.

    Thus:

    The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission (Thomas Keane and Lee Hamilton) said that the CIA (and likely the White House) "obstructed our investigation".

    The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission also said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements, yet didn't bother to tell the American people (free subscription required).

    Indeed, the co-chairs of the Commission now admit that the Commission largely operated based upon political considerations.

    9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.

    9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ."

    9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"

    Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up".

    9/11 Commissioner John Lehman said that “We purposely put together a staff that had – in a way - conflicts of interest".

    The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."

    Source
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  193. @War for Blair Mountain
    According the 9/11 Truther structural engineering experts the Loizeaux Family(America's favorite Demolition Family!!!)-who have decisively refuted the 9/11 Truther claims about a controlled demolition taking down the TT and Building 7-are part of the vast cover-up conspiracy, and therefore must be telekinetically mind controlled by the translucent glowing corpse of Prescott Bush down in the Dark Dank Basement of Yale's Skull and Bones House!!!!!

    Thousands of architects, engineers and physicists say you are wrong. Why not have a real forensic investigation and get to the bottom of the issue in a public forum? If it is as open a shut a case as you like to say, your side should win easily.

    Why is it wrong for us 911 Truthers to want accountability from our government officials? Why can’t you join with us in asking for a new investigation. For example:

    Why won’t the government release the tapes of the Pentagon?

    Was there a defense system in place to defend the Pentagon? Missile defense or something?

    Did it work? If not, why not?

    If you are an honest person who cares about the Truth, why not support an honest forensic investigation?

    Simply mocking people is not a valid argument.

    Read More
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy

    Simply mocking people is not a valid argument.
     
    Quite right. But it can be indicative — indicative of the lack of a valid argument.
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  194. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Sam Shama
    But...but I thought you and fellow theorists claimed remotely controlled empty planes. Ah, the penny just dropped : DNA evidence was planted .......

    but I thought you and fellow theorists …

    So, you start from a mistaken assumption and you arrive, naturally, at a mistaken conclusion.

    I take responsibility only for my own statements. That there are crackpots who say this, that or the other is not my fault. To suggest that I am part of a fellowship of theorists is as unwarranted as my suggesting that you work for the Mossad or the CIA. Whereof one has no evidence, thereof one is wisest not to speak.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    I see,

    So it's a species of macabre comedy you chaps are involved in, one would have to assume, since here is Rurik:

    Rurik says:
    October 25, 2016 at 9:42 pm GMT

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    what bodies?

    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane

    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

     

    To which you reply:

    CanSpeccy
    October 25, 2016 at 9:51 pm GMT


    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air
     
    LOL. But give the lad a chance. He’s just trying out at this propaganda gig. He’ll no doubt get better if we give him a real work out.

     

    and here you are sending me in the direction of http://old.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011027flight931027p5.asp

    CanSpeccy says: • Website
    October 26, 2016 at 12:27 am GMT • 100 Words

    [........]
    Incidentally, there seems no reason to doubt that the passengers aboard the highjacked airliners did indeed die, since positive DNA identification of most if not all victims was made by, e.g., the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology DNA lab in Rockville, Md.

     

    It's rather odd, to say the least, that you and Rurik, fellow backslappers and all that, haven't yet gotten around to clarifying your mutual positions regarding the small matter of remotely controlled aircraft. Rurik has proclaimed his credence of it.

    A clarification is indicated.

    P.S. That little reference you gave re: Nanothermite, You'd be well advised to steer clear of such "references", A pay to publish journal in Abu Dhabi, or was it Dubai?!!

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  195. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Si1ver1ock
    @War for Blair Mountain:

    Thousands of architects, engineers and physicists say you are wrong. Why not have a real forensic investigation and get to the bottom of the issue in a public forum? If it is as open a shut a case as you like to say, your side should win easily.

    Why is it wrong for us 911 Truthers to want accountability from our government officials? Why can't you join with us in asking for a new investigation. For example:

    Why won't the government release the tapes of the Pentagon?

    Was there a defense system in place to defend the Pentagon? Missile defense or something?

    Did it work? If not, why not?

    If you are an honest person who cares about the Truth, why not support an honest forensic investigation?


    Simply mocking people is not a valid argument.

    Simply mocking people is not a valid argument.

    Quite right. But it can be indicative — indicative of the lack of a valid argument.

    Read More
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  196. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Oldeguy
    Pretty much my response. Something, I know not what, is amiss with Our Favorite Expatriate.
    Not being sure of what really happened in an event this pivotal is a reason to proceed with further discussion and investigation- not to shut it down.
    The most successful, by far, commando operation in history performed flawlessly by a bunch of guys with boxcutters directed by cell phone by a fugitive hiding out in a cave in Afghanistan ?
    On the the face of it, that matches the goofiest of any of the conspiracy theories.

    On the the face of it, that [the theory about 19 guys with box-cutters under the direction of fugitive in a cave in Afghanistan] matches the goofiest of any of the conspiracy theories.

    And even the members of the 9/11 Commission have admitted they don’t really believe it.

    Thus:

    The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission (Thomas Keane and Lee Hamilton) said that the CIA (and likely the White House) “obstructed our investigation”.

    The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission also said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements, yet didn’t bother to tell the American people (free subscription required).

    Indeed, the co-chairs of the Commission now admit that the Commission largely operated based upon political considerations.

    9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only “the first draft” of history.

    9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .”

    9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”

    Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”.

    9/11 Commissioner John Lehman said that “We purposely put together a staff that had – in a way – conflicts of interest“.

    The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry, said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.”

    Source

    Read More
    • Agree: Miro23
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  197. @MarkinLA
    The problem with all this "analysis" is that there is a lot of kinetic energy released by the collapsing buildings (WTC1 and 2) and nobody has any way to determine where it went and what damage it did. You have no way to estimate the amount of structural damage to the superstructure of the surrounding buildings (WTC 7) as the debris from the large buildings fans out and blows through the lower floors. The lower floors may be compromised to the point that they can no longer carry the weight of the upper floor and that is why the building would collapse from the bottom up.

    Keep trying, Mark. You’ve captured the narrative, well done. Now go work on the physics.

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  198. nsa says:

    What’s with all the kosher trolls here today…….did the aipac meeting let out early?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    What’s with all the kosher trolls here today…….did the aipac meeting let out early?

    Whenever 9/11 comes up - Hasbara Central goes into panic mode. You can expect the tag team of Shama and iffen to be typing their little fingers off. Shama’s inadequate ridicule attempts are falling flat. And iffen’s WWII 88’ screeds are just getting nowhere.

    If the truth be known about 9/11, the whole Zionist enterprise will be over in a NY minute. Their dirty fingers are all over the event and the investigation.
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  199. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anonymous

    had those 1400-foot structures swayed, and come down laterally
     
    Gravity points down. Skyscrapers don't topple unless their lower structure is asymmetrically destroyed.

    Why would a large building being damaged by falling debris and fire be damaged completely symmetrically at the same time? Wouldn’t it be damaged asymmetrically? That’s why buildings have fire escapes, emergency exits, stairwells, etc., because in fires and structural accidents, the damage is generally asymmetrical.

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  200. L.K says:
    @Chuck Orloski
    Phil,

    Although I appreciate what you want to accomplish in your heart , but as St. Augustine once said, "the flesh" & keeping it intact prevents you from doing so.

    Your opening about the greater good will of Jill Stein was good, but you'd be much better served by noting the wealthy and influential who act with absolute POWER to stop any serious reopening of the 9-11 murder case.

    Also, as a commentator recommended (above), it's difficult for me to think you're unaware of Christopher Bollyn's careful research and findings codified in his book "Solving 9-11."

    The 9-11 mass murder will remain a "Closed Case" until truly great American patriot journalists/intellectuals/mass of Average Joe's unite to place their jobs & lives on-the-line for apprehension of the MSM insulated criminals. (Note: Forget the majority of U.S. politicians because they care more for their "flesh" than their "souls")

    "Open case"

    “Also, as a commentator recommended (above), it’s difficult for me to think you’re unaware of Christopher Bollyn’s careful research and findings codified in his book “Solving 9-11.”

    Yes, particularly since I myself, as well as others, have posted links to Bollyn’s work in the comment section of Giraldi’s articles before.

    Again;

    The online and free version of the book can be found @

    http://www.bollyn.com/solving-9-11-the-book

    Solving 9-11: The Deception That Changed the World Paperback – April 12, 2012
    by Christopher Lee Bollyn

    https://www.amazon.com/Solving-9-11-Deception-Changed-World/dp/0985322586/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1475962308&sr=8-1&keywords=solving+the+9-11+deception

    Mr.Bollyn paid quite a price for investigating the massive evidence of Israeli involvement in the 9-11 terror attacks. For example, after he started investigating an Israeli military’s aviation company spawned in the U.S, the aircraft leasing company ATASCO, he soon got into trouble; A few hours after talking to Shalom Yoran, the Israeli chairman of this now defunct Israeli company, Bollyn was paid a visit by three unidentified police officers, who:

    arrived at my house and, without cause or provocation, TASERed me and broke my elbow in front of my family on August 15, 2006.”

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
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  201. Art says:
    @iffen
    The entire holocaust fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    The entire reality "we exist" fable relies on "eye witness testimony" which has been thoroughly debunked.

    HdC: The entire holocaust fable relies on “eye witness testimony” which has been thoroughly debunked.

    Hey iffen,

    Did you see the video of the Mexican guy laughing at the Six Million Lie? It was infectious and hilarious — and so right on.

    He said it was “six million” then the “four million” at Auschwitz was reduced to “1.5 million” – but the total was still “six million” – then he busted out laughing. So funny. Even you would have to love the guy.

    Art

    p.s. There are 6,666 million good people out there who you maliciously call 88’s. You had their sympathy at one time – but no longer. You fooled them into letting you do bad things to the Palestinians. Now they no longer give a fig for your lie.

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  202. L.K says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    Unfortunately, the former-U.S.A. must now wait for the next (False Flag) seekrut-shoe to drop, and it does not look good for the Islamic Republic of Iran.
     
    Yeah. Since Iran has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo, ya gotta wonder about the constant hard-on for anything BUT Iran.

    Go figger.

    John Jeremiah Smith “Since Iran has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo”

    Let me help you a bit, fool… take my hand, so you don’t fall flat on your face & break that Pinocchio nose of yours, and let’s change your previous sentence just one bit, so that for once, you’ll get it right:

    “Since ISRAEL has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo”

    Now you got it! Good boy.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    Tsk, tsk, Lukky me boy. Ron deleted my first reply (his option, no argument there), so I thought I would take a moment to discuss your rampant anti-semitism. Hate Jews, do you? Tsk, tsk.

    From your photograph, I would guess that your mother was an obese white woman, addicted to the crystallized cocaine known as "crack". Your father was a Nigerian flim-flam artist who kept a stable of ten fat, perpetually pregnant white women, taking half of each one's welfare check. You have 22 mulatto half-brothers and sisters, each with the middle name of Ngongo.

    And you hate white people, for good reason -- they're all smarter than you.

    Bye now.
    , @Rurik

    “Since ISRAEL has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo”
     
    I thought maybe he was being sarcastic with that Iran bullshit

    But I think you're right L.K., and JJ is a ringer
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  203. @John Jeremiah Smith
    I sense a great deal of anger, fury even, from C-Theorists. NIST's explanation is pure hell to disprove. Faith is important. Ya gotta have faith.

    It's like the Flight 93 legend. C-Theorists say it could NOT have happened -- there was no such plane, just a crater.

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    The CGI versions are noteworthy. How did people on the ground, and at least two pilots, see those CGI jets?

    The only real anger I see here is from people like you, with all the name-calling and insults.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    The only real anger I see here is from people like you, with all the name-calling and insults.
     
    I do not hesitate to respond in kind. I don't honor any Xtian nonsense like turning the other cheek, etc. When you address me, be polite, and I will be polite in return.

    As for being angry, do you have a problem with that? How were you planning on preventing people from being angry?

    Lastly, beefy, were you planning on making any intelligent comments? Any analysis? Any informed opinion? Any counterpoint based on verifiable fact? How about you DO that, before you start bitching at me. Set an example for everyone to emulate.
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  204. So who benefited from 9/11?

    Israel, America, etc. It’s mostly for Israel’s expansion for Greater Israel. Cause strife in the Middle East, cause migration. Go to war, have Americans and others fight and die for Israel, then Israel gets to expand. This all was a precursor for Greater Israel.

    http://www.unz.com/article/war-is-realizing-the-israelizing-of-the-world/

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    • Replies: @iffen


    So who benefited from 9/11?
     
    Israel, America, etc. It’s mostly for Israel’s expansion for Greater Israel. Cause strife in the Middle East, cause migration. Go to war, have Americans and others fight and die for Israel, then Israel gets to expand. This all was a precursor for Greater Israel.
     
    Israel seems to have been able to expand on more than one occasion prior to 9/11, which means that 9/11 is/was not essential for Israeli expansion.

    The Middle East did not require 9/11 to create strife. Strife in the Middle East has been present since historical times and by genetic and archaeologic evidence it existed pre-history.

    America has been going to war world-wide since the dawning of Pax America (even before) it is not restricted to the Middle East.
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  205. @iffen
    The interesting contrast is between tens of thousands of witnesses as opposed to a handful.

    So, things like death by steam/electricity on conveyor belts, geysers of blood, human lamp shades, gas chambers with windows, etc.?

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    • Replies: @iffen
    No, just millions beat to death, summarily shot and killed, gassed or starved to death with the bodies burned in incinerators; not just men, lots of women and children.
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  206. L.K says:

    Regarding the matter of whether or not bin Laden and ‘al-Qaeda’ were even capable of orchestrating the 9-11 Attacks, author and professor David Ray Griffin, wrote:

    For prosecutors to prove that defendants committed a crime, they must show that they had the ability (as well as the motive and opportunity) to do so.
    But several political and military leaders from other countries have stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks.
    General Leonid Ivashov, who in 2001 was the chief of staff for the Russian armed forces, wrote:

    “Only secret services and their current chiefs—or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations—have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude…Osama bin Laden and “Al Qaeda” cannot be the organizers nor the performers of the September 11 attacks. They do not have the necessary organization, resources or leaders.”

    Similar statements have been made by Andreas von Bülow, the former state secretary of West Germany’s ministry of defense, by General Mirza Aslam Beg, former chief of staff of Pakistan’s army, and even General Musharraf, the president of Pakistan until recently.[109]

    This same point was also made by veteran CIA agent Milt Bearden. Speaking disparagingly of “the myth of Osama bin Laden” on CBS News the day after 9/11, Bearden said: “I was there [in Afghanistan] at the same time bin Laden was there. He was not the great warrior.” With regard to the widespread view that bin Laden was behind the attacks, he said: “This was a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States—more sophisticated than anybody would have ascribed to Osama bin Laden.” Pointing out that a group capable of such a sophisticated attack would have had a way to cover their tracks, he added: “This group who was responsible for that, if they didn’t have an Osama bin Laden out there, they’d invent one, because he’s a terrific diversion.”[110]

    So, “a tremendously sophisticated operation against the United States”, and we are supposed to believe it was carried out by a bunch of losers who could not plan what they were gonna have fer breakfest… sure.

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  207. @John Jeremiah Smith

    People who readily resort to name-calling and insults are typically on the losing side of argument.
     
    Not really -- pretty much 50/50, imo. Did you include yourself in the "dumbass" group for some good reason? Maybe aliens from Proxima Centauri used a seekrut raygun to collapse the WTC?

    Thank you for proving my point. You remind me of a liberal who blows a fuse when Hillary’s Wall St. connections are brought up.

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  208. @dahoit
    DC is the lowest profile city in America,where the highest point is the Wash, monument.
    Why are there absolutely no photos from the many tourists out that beautiful day to confirm a jet?
    Digital cameras were commonplace at the time,as well as traditional cameras.
    Scam.

    if i remember correctly, after 911, the fbi was scrambling to grab up all photos and videos of the events that took place. They went thru and canvassed the areas extensively, making sure to not miss any pesky video that might throw a wrench in their “official narrative”. Same thing happened after the Kennedy assassination. Seems suspicious if you just step back analyze it…..

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    • Replies: @Miro23
    It was the same story in Florida. Author Daniel Hopsicker spend a lot of time tracking down all the people who had contact with the Arab pilots in the flight schools, girlfriends, apartments where they lived, nightclubs etc. and interestingly, all of them had had previous visits from the FBI, not to investigate anything, but to threaten them to keep quiet and remove evidence.

    The reason was that the Arab pilots were 1) completely "looked after" with regard to visas, bypassing normal documentation procedures, immunity from the police etc. 2) they weren't Islamic extremists - drinking, drugs, parties and prostitutes 3) they were hopeless pilots.

    Source: Daniel Hopsicker, "Welcome to Terrorland", and by accident he also found that a group of Arab looking men posing as a television crew arrived at the Colony Beach resort Hotel, Longboat Key, Sarasota, Florida on the morning of 9/11, claiming to have an interview appointment with George Bush who was staying there. They were turned away and disappeared.
    , @dahoit
    That still doesn't explain no eyewitness reporting a jet or missile verbally,post seizure of cameras.And how would they get all the cameras or photos, that seizure?
    Flight 800 they did the same,but verbal missile talk was still heard from some eyewitnesses.Weird.Very.
    Hydrophobic;A condition of rabies,as in the rabid rat that roars,Zion.
    I must be on to something they don't want illuminated.
    They fired the poet laurete of NJ,post 9-11,for staying the Israeli warning to its citizens to stay home that day,Amiri Baraka.I have never seen any rebuttal or confirmation anywhere about that.
    A very smoking gun eh?
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  209. @Beefcake the Mighty
    The only real anger I see here is from people like you, with all the name-calling and insults.

    The only real anger I see here is from people like you, with all the name-calling and insults.

    I do not hesitate to respond in kind. I don’t honor any Xtian nonsense like turning the other cheek, etc. When you address me, be polite, and I will be polite in return.

    As for being angry, do you have a problem with that? How were you planning on preventing people from being angry?

    Lastly, beefy, were you planning on making any intelligent comments? Any analysis? Any informed opinion? Any counterpoint based on verifiable fact? How about you DO that, before you start bitching at me. Set an example for everyone to emulate.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    You really can't help yourself, can you?
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  210. @John Jeremiah Smith

    The only real anger I see here is from people like you, with all the name-calling and insults.
     
    I do not hesitate to respond in kind. I don't honor any Xtian nonsense like turning the other cheek, etc. When you address me, be polite, and I will be polite in return.

    As for being angry, do you have a problem with that? How were you planning on preventing people from being angry?

    Lastly, beefy, were you planning on making any intelligent comments? Any analysis? Any informed opinion? Any counterpoint based on verifiable fact? How about you DO that, before you start bitching at me. Set an example for everyone to emulate.

    You really can’t help yourself, can you?

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    You really can’t help yourself, can you?
     
    Well, you must love it, 'cause you keep on asking for it.
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  211. @War for Blair Mountain
    According the 9/11 Truther structural engineering experts the Loizeaux Family(America's favorite Demolition Family!!!)-who have decisively refuted the 9/11 Truther claims about a controlled demolition taking down the TT and Building 7-are part of the vast cover-up conspiracy, and therefore must be telekinetically mind controlled by the translucent glowing corpse of Prescott Bush down in the Dark Dank Basement of Yale's Skull and Bones House!!!!!

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  212. L.K says:

    In my previous comment I mentioned political and military leaders from other countries who stated that bin Laden and al-Qaeda simply could not have carried out the attacks. More on that, from investigative jornalist Christopher Bollyn:

    In Germany, I had the opportunity to interview Andreas von Bülow near Köln. Von Bülow, an author and former member of the Bundestag (the German parliament) served on the parliamentary commission which oversees the three branches of the German secret service. Von Bülow said he thought Israel’s intelligence service, Mossad, was behind the 9-11 attacks. These attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.
    “You don’t get the higher echelons,” von Bülow said, referring to the “architectural structure” which masterminds such terror attacks. At this level, he said, the organization doing the planning, such as Mossad, is primarily interested in affecting public opinion. The terrorists who actually commit the crimes are what von Bülow calls “the working level,” such as the nineteen Arabs who allegedly hijacked the planes on September 11. “The working level is part of the deception,” he said.
    “Ninety-five percent of the work of the intelligence agencies around the world is deception and disinformation,” he said, which is widely propagated in the mainstream media creating an accepted version of events. “Journalists don’t even raise the simplest questions,” he said. “Those who differ are labeled as crazy.”
    Eckehardt Werthebach, the former president of the Verfassungsschutz (a branch of German intelligence), told me that “the deathly precision” and “the magnitude of planning” behind the attacks would have needed “years of planning.” Such a sophisticated operation, Werthebach said, required the “fixed frame” of a state intelligence organization, something not found in a “loose group” of terrorists. Both Werthebach and von Bülow said the lack of a complete “blue ribbon” investigation, with congressional hearings, into the events of September 11 was incomprehensible.[...]As incomprehensible as it might seem, the Bush administration delayed and avoided an official investigation for as long as possible – at least until all of the evidence was destroyed. The steel from the World Trade Center was quickly shipped to Asia where it was melted down. The evidence from the crime scene was being destroyed as quickly as possible. This was clearly criminal, yet the highest authorities in the U.S. government and the Department of Justice were allowing it to happen.

    So, a good basic question to these shit eaters, like ‘John Jeremiah Smith’, ‘blair mountain whatever’ & co, is;

    Why did the government destroy the evidence b4 it could be examined, in direct violation of federal law regarding crime scene protocol??

    The worst terror attack in the history of the US & the government proceeded to quickly destroy the evidence b4 a forensic investigation of it could be performed.
    Why, Mr.shit-eaters?

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  213. Art says:
    @nsa
    What's with all the kosher trolls here today.......did the aipac meeting let out early?

    What’s with all the kosher trolls here today…….did the aipac meeting let out early?

    Whenever 9/11 comes up – Hasbara Central goes into panic mode. You can expect the tag team of Shama and iffen to be typing their little fingers off. Shama’s inadequate ridicule attempts are falling flat. And iffen’s WWII 88’ screeds are just getting nowhere.

    If the truth be known about 9/11, the whole Zionist enterprise will be over in a NY minute. Their dirty fingers are all over the event and the investigation.

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    OT, and perhaps old news to you, but this review is unique. Atzmon can really mine a book for tasty information.

    "The moral is very clear: BDS had a very “good reason” to remain silent regarding its funding sources. After all, being funded directly or indirectly by a liberal Zionist philanthropy, a man who also funds the openly Zionist JStreet, is indeed slightly embarrassing. Furthermore, it seems as if this new evidence of Western intervention presented as a “Jordanian queer initiative” proves that Joseph Massed was more than correct—
Queer International is a farce. In practice it is a network of proxy operations attempting to introduce liberal ideas to Arabs and Muslims in an attempt to undermine their culture."
    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/israelpalestine-and-the-queer-international-a-book-review-by.html
    , @Boris
    YAWEH DAMN IT! I guess the jig is up, guys. This dude figured out that Everyone who doesn't agree that CGI planes were used to conceal Steelmelter miisiles is a Jew-controlled robot. Can you believe the commenters at Unz cracked it? Might as well release the videoso now. These geniuses beat us. Better luck with the flesh removal machine, I guess. Dang.
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  214. @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 Truthers screen out expert opinion from intellectually honest experts. And anyone who challenges the 9/11 Truther "scientific" expertise is either stupid....or part of the 9/11 Conspiracy....9/11 Truthers are absolutely "brilliant" debaters!!!.


    9/11 was completely avoidable:1965 -2016 a National Origins Immigration Policy that completey excluded all Muslims forever. But these raises the very interesting question of why Muslims are being imported into the US in the first place. Answer:51 years of importing Hillary Clinton's Voting Bloc(Khirzir Khan's People)...And this is gar worse than 9/11 and the Fort Hood Massacre by many many orders of magnitude.

    9/11 Truthers screen out expert opinion from intellectually honest experts.

    Tell me why all the evidence was immediately shipped to China to be “recycled”?

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  215. @L.K
    John Jeremiah Smith "Since Iran has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo"

    Let me help you a bit, fool... take my hand, so you don't fall flat on your face & break that Pinocchio nose of yours, and let's change your previous sentence just one bit, so that for once, you'll get it right:

    "Since ISRAEL has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo"

    Now you got it! Good boy.

    Tsk, tsk, Lukky me boy. Ron deleted my first reply (his option, no argument there), so I thought I would take a moment to discuss your rampant anti-semitism. Hate Jews, do you? Tsk, tsk.

    From your photograph, I would guess that your mother was an obese white woman, addicted to the crystallized cocaine known as “crack”. Your father was a Nigerian flim-flam artist who kept a stable of ten fat, perpetually pregnant white women, taking half of each one’s welfare check. You have 22 mulatto half-brothers and sisters, each with the middle name of Ngongo.

    And you hate white people, for good reason — they’re all smarter than you.

    Bye now.

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    • Replies: @Stonehands

    Tsk, tsk, Lukky me boy. Ron deleted my first reply (his option, no argument there), so I thought I would take a moment to discuss your rampant anti-semitism. Hate Jews, do you? Tsk, tsk....

     

    Ahh.... doing the bidding of your Overlords?

    Racist! Homophobe! ANTI- SEMITE!!!
    , @L.K
    No. But you know what I really hate, JJ, I hate lying basterds such as yourself.

    There is not a shred of truth in you... your mission here is so painfully obvious.

    BTW, I'm waiting on your explanation to the following basic question;
    Why did the government destroy the evidence b4 it could be examined, in direct violation of federal law regarding crime scene protocol?
    The worst terror attack in the history of the US & the government proceeded to quickly destroy the evidence b4 a forensic investigation of it could be performed.
    Why?

    PS: Former Israeli Minister Shulamit Aloni: "Anti-Semitism Is a Trick That We Always Use":
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpQa4Yjv7B0
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  216. @Beefcake the Mighty
    You really can't help yourself, can you?

    You really can’t help yourself, can you?

    Well, you must love it, ’cause you keep on asking for it.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Indeed, don't stop.
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  217. Paul C. says:

    CNN, FOX and BBC all reported the collapse of WTC 7 before the collapse of WTC 7. They never explained how they got it wrong (reporting of a collapsed building that is still standing). They never explained how they knew it would fall. Fire has never collapsed a steel skyscraper in world history, except on 9/11. Not only did it fall but it fell at nearly free fall speed (8 seconds), meaning no resistance from the 80 columns on each of the 47 floors. This means that over 3,700 columns (80 x 47) had to collapse simultaneously from an office fire, when at the time of collapse, there was no evidence of a fire still burning.

    And lastly, why has no MSM (NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NY Times, Wash Post etc…) ever written about how this building collapsed and to this day still will not touch it?

    Our media is controlled by the gov’t and our gov’t has been hijacked.

    Guess what you’ll also never read about, the legality of the Fed (Federal Reserve). These private bankers have effectively enslaved the rest of us and are running the show.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor

    They never explained how they got it wrong (reporting of a collapsed building that is still standing).
     
    That's not a very good argument. The building was - according to the official version - on the verge of collapse. In the confusion, right after they pulled out the firefighters due to the imminent collapse, a reporter might have misunderstood what he was told ("it's about to collapse" vs. "it has collapsed"), and then told a news agency or a tv channel, and the "news" was picked up by others before it was withdrawn. Then, a short time later, the tower did indeed collapse. What's so difficult?
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
    A nit-pick: it's free-fall acceleration, not speed.
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  218. RobinG says:
    @Art
    What’s with all the kosher trolls here today…….did the aipac meeting let out early?

    Whenever 9/11 comes up - Hasbara Central goes into panic mode. You can expect the tag team of Shama and iffen to be typing their little fingers off. Shama’s inadequate ridicule attempts are falling flat. And iffen’s WWII 88’ screeds are just getting nowhere.

    If the truth be known about 9/11, the whole Zionist enterprise will be over in a NY minute. Their dirty fingers are all over the event and the investigation.

    OT, and perhaps old news to you, but this review is unique. Atzmon can really mine a book for tasty information.

    “The moral is very clear: BDS had a very “good reason” to remain silent regarding its funding sources. After all, being funded directly or indirectly by a liberal Zionist philanthropy, a man who also funds the openly Zionist JStreet, is indeed slightly embarrassing. Furthermore, it seems as if this new evidence of Western intervention presented as a “Jordanian queer initiative” proves that Joseph Massed was more than correct—
Queer International is a farce. In practice it is a network of proxy operations attempting to introduce liberal ideas to Arabs and Muslims in an attempt to undermine their culture.”

    http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/israelpalestine-and-the-queer-international-a-book-review-by.html

    Read More
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  219. @Rurik

    Was the US government solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    no, Israel was also responsible

    Was Israel solely responsible for the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    No, elements in the US gov and controlled media were also responsible

    Did Israel and the US government together engineer the attacks? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not governments per se, but elements in those governments. Like "the orders still stand" Dick Cheney, but certainly not all the assorted minions of the US or Israeli governments.

    Was neither Israel nor the US government responsible? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not governments per se. If you restrict the question to this broadly defined blanket condemnation, then the answer would be 'yes'.

    Were Saudis involved in any way in the plot? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    there's zero reason for thinking so

    If Israel was responsible, did the CIA know? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    at the highest levels, yes, but there again, that certainly doesn't mean every single employee

    Was President Bush, through the CIA or otherwise, aware of the Israeli participation, making the President and the CIA part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Don't know

    Did AA77 hit the Pentagon. yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    there's no evidence of it. And if it had, they'd show us one of the scores (hundreds?) of videos

    Essay question: If no, What happened to AA77? ____________ Don’t know___
     
    the reason the flights were wildly diverted was probably to land the planes, liquidate the passengers and crew, and then send up specially outfitted jets for the purpose of crashing into the towers. (as the pretext for them to collapse, as the pretext to start the Eternal Wars for Israel and to turn us all into Palestinians)

    If not AA77, did a missile hit the Pentagon? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    it looks like it

    If a missile, was ws it fired by the US military, making the military part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Don't know. And again, it wouldn't be "the military", as in some monolithic entity that is fully aware of everything that "it' does. There are fringe sub-sets of the military that are often engaged in illegal and covert ops.

    If no, fired by whom? ____________ Don’t know___
     
    Don't know

    Did the NTSB fake the data from the flight data recorders, making it part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    what data?!

    From what I understand, we have not been made privy to any of the information on any of the flight data recorders. If you're aware of any data from the flight data recorders then you should give us a link!

    Were the Towers destroyed by a controlled demolition? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    yes

    it's *obvious* that building seven was thus demolished, and so it follows that the other two were also.

    Did aircraft hit the the Towers? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    two of them, yes. The third was not hit by a plane, it simply plopped down in nicely cut pieces ready for shipment to China.

    If so, who flew them? ____________ Don’t know__
     
    In all likelihood, remote control. Check out the comptroller of the Pentagon at the time and his sundry organizations. Nice little rabbit hole of its own.

    Essay question: Why both controlled demolition and aircraft? Ignore this question if the two were not used together
     
    horror

    they needed to horrify and anger the American people to rally us to war on Israel's neighbors. (+ there was the added benefit to lucky Larry of a few billion shekels and an opportunity to get rid of a couple of financial boondoggles. Such a deal!)

    Essay question: If a controlled demolition, describe the placement and quantities needed, and the source of your information.
     
    this is silly

    we don't need to know the exact caliber of bullet that hit JFK to know that the government and Warren commission was lying. And they likely used military type crap that we're not even privy to. Come on Fred.

    Was the FBI involved in the cover-up, and therefore part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    elements, sure

    like the people that went around and collected all the videos that might have showed what hit the Pentagon. Certainly the people at the top were and are privy to the crime and cover up. Just like with JFK.

    Was Larry Silverstein, owner of the Towers, part of the conspiracy? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    Yes, of course he was

    Did the media cover up the conspiracy, thereby making them part of it? yes___no___Don’t know___
     
    not your local channel seven, but the media as it's controlled from the top, and lie about EVERTYING. Yes Fred, that media was complicit. And still are. And are the ones that are going to hand the reins of this nations to Hillary Clinton. That media, you betcha.

    Essay question: If Israel was involved, should America bomb Tel Aviv?
     
    of course not. There again you're being silly Fred.

    what America should do is the same thing is should (and still needs to) do as regards the other cowardly and treacherous false flag that *elements* in the Israeli government and security forces were responsible for- the attack on the USS Liberty. We should have a real investigation that ferrets out these uber-criminals and brings them to justice.

    911 was a coup to turn the US into Israel's rabid dog in the Levant. And create a police state for any Americans that object, even with our very own torture camp. Isn't that something?

    You should write about it someday Fred. I can't think of a person more suited to mock the American idea of the free and the brave running a torture camp for goat herders and Afghans who don't want America making them free too.

    as for 911, all you have to know is that building seven was an obvious controlled demolition. From there it doesn't matter if George Dubya Bush was in on it or what type of materials specifically were used to bring the buildings down. That shit is all academic. We know they lied, and are lying. Only a deluded fool or moral coward (or worse) would pretend to themselves otherwise once he's seen the irrefutable evidence that they're lying.

    Excellent job Rurik- it is all about educating the lurkers here. JR’s advice is on point as well…

    The US needs a good political establishment enema….

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  220. @John Jeremiah Smith

    anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?
     

    Both are conspiracy theories, so which conspiracy theory do you adhere to?
     
    Which one is more cynical?

    Hey Shlomo- you sure do like to answer questions with questions!

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  221. eD says:
    @Mark F.
    No, because the 2 WTC collapses were the first ones. So what? None of those other buildings had huge jets filled with fuel flying into them. To say the other fires were "similar" is false.

    Please explain how explosives were planted without anyone noticing. Any demolition expert can tell you that planting enough explosives to take down a huge building takes a long time and involves a lot of people doing stuff that is not easily hidden.

    And why bother with flying planes into the buildings if they are already going to come down with explosives? If "everyone knows" that planes flying into buildings can't cause them to collapse, why do it? Just blow up the buildings. You would have killed many more people doing that.

    “I have yet to see a single plausible reason why the building had to come down rather than merely be flown into. Care to provide one?”

    On another one of these threads on this site, I raised the possibility that the twin towers (1 and 2 WTC) had been pre-wired for demolition either when they were constructed, or after the 1993 bombing, so that if they were structurally compromised, and there was a possibility that they would topple over onto other buildings in Manhattan, they could be brought down cleanly in their footprints. The evidence for controlled demolition is there because they were demolished that way, but this had always been the plan in the event of another, more successful terrorist attack, but for obvious reasons the authorities don’t want this known. On the other hand, 7 World Trade Center was pre-wired for demolition simply because of all the deep state stuff locataed there. Its perfectly possible that real terrorists attacked the World Trade Center AND the authorities brought the structurs down with controlled demolition.

    Likewise real terrorists could have planted a bomb inside the Pentagon, but the government wouldn’t want to advertise that terrorists could do that, so the public is fed the story of a plane striking the building.

    Whoever planted the attacks probably was not planning to destroy the World Trade Center itself. As you said, hijacking planes and flying them into skyscrapers creates enough terror in itself. This is true whether they were false flag attacks or actually planned by Islamic terrorists.

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    • Replies: @Ex-Saffer
    That's a better reply than I was entitled to expect.
    , @Intelligent Dasein
    You are insane.
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  222. @John Jeremiah Smith

    “. . . neither before nor since 9/11 have fires caused
    the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise
     
    If you intend to contradict my statement, then contradict my statement. I wrote: "“That steel-framed buildings can collapse from intense internal fires is well-known, and readily demonstrable".

    At no point in time have I written that such an event has taken place in a high-rise building. High-rise building fires are not commonplace, and fire-caused collapse of a high-rise building even less so. However, if you wish to read the NIST report on the collapse of Bldg. 7, it is available. Go find it. I do not fetch for shouting, angry conspiracy theorists.

    At no point in time have I written that such an event has taken place in a high-rise building. High-rise building fires are not commonplace, and fire-caused collapse of a high-rise building even less so. However, if you wish to read the NIST report on the collapse of Bldg. 7, it is available. Go find it. I do not fetch for shouting, angry conspiracy theorists.

    My Gawd…you are so full of shite!

    Slick Willies got nothing on you!

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    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    The NIST study is the most accurate measurement of the time it took for both building 7 to collapse and it completely refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of controlled demolition. As does the working experience of America's most famous demolition family who I mentioned in a previous post.



    The 9/11 Truther movement is a cabal of drooling psychotic delusionals....greedy bastards such as Alex Jones and Dylan Avery....and evil creatures such and philosophy professors David Ray Griffin and James Fentzler.....
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  223. Alfred says:

    “In my own area, of expertise, which is intelligence”

    I wonder whether “intelligence” includes mathematics?

    Number of Israelis killed in Twin Towers = zero
    Number of people killed in Twin Towers = 2996
    Expected percentage Israelis in buildings of the New York financial centre = 10%
    Expected number of Israelis killed in 2 buildings = 299%

    Chi-squared probability of all of them, by chance, forgetting to show up at work on that day = 0%

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    It's probably reasonable to assume the % of Israelis working in the twin towers was the same as the NYC financial industry as a whole (which is what I assume your 10% number represents), but is the actual % for the twin towers known?

    Apart from that, great point. In general, the disproportionate representation of Jews in various positions of power (media, govt, etc.) cannot be explained by statistical happenstance, it's clearly ethnic networking. Which, you know, liberals generally say is a no-no.
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  224. @War for Blair Mountain
    Miro

    Your just making shit up to promote your 9/11 Truther psychosis....


    You a raising sewage that has been for been refuted for 15 years...hint:it's what you leave out...among other things Truthers lie by omission...15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11...



    One can find very easily dozens of debates with 9/11 Truthers about the very point you just raised in You Tube debates with 9/11 Truthers....9/11 Truthers always running away shrieking with there tails behind their legs...

    Your just making shit up to promote your 9/11 Truther psychosis….

    You a raising sewage that has been for been refuted for 15 years…hint:it’s what you leave out…among other things Truthers lie by omission…15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11…

    Stop farting out of your mouth and state your rebuttal, ass- clown.

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    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    I'll go with series of papers published in an elite engineering journal+every engineering physics department in the US+a well known demolition Family.


    The nanothermite study was published in a nonelite chemistry journal. And several editors of this journal resigned in protest over the publication of the nanothermite study and the journal ownership interviening to get the Jones study published.



    There is a much larger...and it is this:9/11 9/11 Truthers are playing propaganda hocus pocus:believe in 9/11 Truther Science or you are part of the conspiracy. What the 9/11 Truthers have been doing is so way out of the bounds of normal scientific investigstation. In normal scientific investigation a scientific study is submitted for peer review. This can be done by submitting a scientific paper to an elite journal for peer review and publication....and-or....arranging to give a presentation to a group of experts at a university. 9/11 Truther Scientists have not followed the normal scientific peer review process.



    And I'll also go the demolition expertise of America's favorite demolition family who have been disgustingly slandered by one well known 9/11 Truther "scientist."....as have the Families of the Victims who died in the Shanksville crash.
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  225. @John Jeremiah Smith
    Tsk, tsk, Lukky me boy. Ron deleted my first reply (his option, no argument there), so I thought I would take a moment to discuss your rampant anti-semitism. Hate Jews, do you? Tsk, tsk.

    From your photograph, I would guess that your mother was an obese white woman, addicted to the crystallized cocaine known as "crack". Your father was a Nigerian flim-flam artist who kept a stable of ten fat, perpetually pregnant white women, taking half of each one's welfare check. You have 22 mulatto half-brothers and sisters, each with the middle name of Ngongo.

    And you hate white people, for good reason -- they're all smarter than you.

    Bye now.

    Tsk, tsk, Lukky me boy. Ron deleted my first reply (his option, no argument there), so I thought I would take a moment to discuss your rampant anti-semitism. Hate Jews, do you? Tsk, tsk….

    Ahh…. doing the bidding of your Overlords?

    Racist! Homophobe! ANTI- SEMITE!!!

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  226. Miro23 says:
    @Delinquent Snail
    if i remember correctly, after 911, the fbi was scrambling to grab up all photos and videos of the events that took place. They went thru and canvassed the areas extensively, making sure to not miss any pesky video that might throw a wrench in their "official narrative". Same thing happened after the Kennedy assassination. Seems suspicious if you just step back analyze it.....

    It was the same story in Florida. Author Daniel Hopsicker spend a lot of time tracking down all the people who had contact with the Arab pilots in the flight schools, girlfriends, apartments where they lived, nightclubs etc. and interestingly, all of them had had previous visits from the FBI, not to investigate anything, but to threaten them to keep quiet and remove evidence.

    The reason was that the Arab pilots were 1) completely “looked after” with regard to visas, bypassing normal documentation procedures, immunity from the police etc. 2) they weren’t Islamic extremists – drinking, drugs, parties and prostitutes 3) they were hopeless pilots.

    Source: Daniel Hopsicker, “Welcome to Terrorland”, and by accident he also found that a group of Arab looking men posing as a television crew arrived at the Colony Beach resort Hotel, Longboat Key, Sarasota, Florida on the morning of 9/11, claiming to have an interview appointment with George Bush who was staying there. They were turned away and disappeared.

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  227. […] Read the Whole Article […]

    Read More
  228. It also includes a bit of a history lesson for the average viewer, recalling Hitler’s Reichstag fire, Pearl Harbor and the Gulf of Tonkin incident, all of which were essentially fraudulent

    That’s just wrong. Regarding Pearl Harbor, it was definitely provoked by Roosevelt’s policies, but it was nevertheless done by the Japanese. There were some suspicions raised that maybe Roosevelt deliberately let the Japanese carry out the attack, but apparently no one ever thought the Japanese were capable of proficiently carrying out such a large scale attack.

    Incidentally, the Japanese did a similar attack on Port Arthur in 1904 (and similarly before a formal declaration of war), and the American (and British) press celebrated them for their bravery and cunning.

    As to the Reichstag fire, there’s no conclusive evidence, but apparently most historians now think that it wasn’t, after all, done by the Nazis, instead it really was done by the lone pyromaniac van der Lubbe. Give credit where credit is due: the Nazis quickly grabbed the opportunity to claim extraordinary powers, as the fire made it easy for them to convince Hindenburg to grant them such powers.

    Still, there’s no evidence that it was in any ways “fraudulent”.

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  229. @Paul C.
    CNN, FOX and BBC all reported the collapse of WTC 7 before the collapse of WTC 7. They never explained how they got it wrong (reporting of a collapsed building that is still standing). They never explained how they knew it would fall. Fire has never collapsed a steel skyscraper in world history, except on 9/11. Not only did it fall but it fell at nearly free fall speed (8 seconds), meaning no resistance from the 80 columns on each of the 47 floors. This means that over 3,700 columns (80 x 47) had to collapse simultaneously from an office fire, when at the time of collapse, there was no evidence of a fire still burning.

    And lastly, why has no MSM (NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NY Times, Wash Post etc...) ever written about how this building collapsed and to this day still will not touch it?

    Our media is controlled by the gov't and our gov't has been hijacked.

    Guess what you'll also never read about, the legality of the Fed (Federal Reserve). These private bankers have effectively enslaved the rest of us and are running the show.

    They never explained how they got it wrong (reporting of a collapsed building that is still standing).

    That’s not a very good argument. The building was – according to the official version – on the verge of collapse. In the confusion, right after they pulled out the firefighters due to the imminent collapse, a reporter might have misunderstood what he was told (“it’s about to collapse” vs. “it has collapsed”), and then told a news agency or a tv channel, and the “news” was picked up by others before it was withdrawn. Then, a short time later, the tower did indeed collapse. What’s so difficult?

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    What's difficult to believe is that, even given the chaotic circumstances, anyone on the ground could confuse "about to collapse" with "collapsed".
    , @Rurik

    The building was – according to the official version – on the verge of collapse.
     
    lol

    In the confusion, right after they pulled out the firefighters due to the imminent collapse,
     
    you do realize that reasonable people are reading what you write, and seeing the glaringly obvious way your dissembling- on acid, don't you?
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  230. Dave1962 says:

    911 has the stench and fingerprints of Israel/Zionists all over it.
    After all, according to Netanyahu “it was good for Israel”.
    This devious tribe would have no compunctions seeing 1 million American (non-Jews) killed if it benefitted Israel in the slightest way.

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    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 has the stupidity of millions of Native Born White Americans all over it...they should have devoted their free time to shutting down Muslim immigration forever. 9/11 was completely avoidable:0 Muslims in America=9/11 never happens....1+1=2 f......g easy...
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  231. @Stonehands

    Your just making shit up to promote your 9/11 Truther psychosis….

    You a raising sewage that has been for been refuted for 15 years…hint:it’s what you leave out…among other things Truthers lie by omission…15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11…


     

    Stop farting out of your mouth and state your rebuttal, ass- clown.

    I’ll go with series of papers published in an elite engineering journal+every engineering physics department in the US+a well known demolition Family.

    The nanothermite study was published in a nonelite chemistry journal. And several editors of this journal resigned in protest over the publication of the nanothermite study and the journal ownership interviening to get the Jones study published.

    There is a much larger…and it is this:9/11 9/11 Truthers are playing propaganda hocus pocus:believe in 9/11 Truther Science or you are part of the conspiracy. What the 9/11 Truthers have been doing is so way out of the bounds of normal scientific investigstation. In normal scientific investigation a scientific study is submitted for peer review. This can be done by submitting a scientific paper to an elite journal for peer review and publication….and-or….arranging to give a presentation to a group of experts at a university. 9/11 Truther Scientists have not followed the normal scientific peer review process.

    And I’ll also go the demolition expertise of America’s favorite demolition family who have been disgustingly slandered by one well known 9/11 Truther “scientist.”….as have the Families of the Victims who died in the Shanksville crash.

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  232. @Stonehands

    At no point in time have I written that such an event has taken place in a high-rise building. High-rise building fires are not commonplace, and fire-caused collapse of a high-rise building even less so. However, if you wish to read the NIST report on the collapse of Bldg. 7, it is available. Go find it. I do not fetch for shouting, angry conspiracy theorists.
     
    My Gawd...you are so full of shite!

    Slick Willies got nothing on you!

    The NIST study is the most accurate measurement of the time it took for both building 7 to collapse and it completely refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of controlled demolition. As does the working experience of America’s most famous demolition family who I mentioned in a previous post.

    The 9/11 Truther movement is a cabal of drooling psychotic delusionals….greedy bastards such as Alex Jones and Dylan Avery….and evil creatures such and philosophy professors David Ray Griffin and James Fentzler…..

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    • Replies: @Stonehands

    The NIST study is the most accurate measurement of the time it took for both building 7 to collapse and it completely refutes the 9/11 Truther...
     
    All well and good, you have a scientific background- but you conveniently omit half the process of a proper investigation.

    1- Why was the evidence quickly shipped off to the other side of the world and melted down? All of it should still be available, forever, for analysis of this most murderous crime.

    2. What was the big hurry shuttling around the country picking up the Bin Laden family [while airspace was completely shut down!] and abetting in their escape? Once again, the FBI reveals its raison d'etre- to obfuscate and cover- up crimes of the Deep State.

    3. Was that airliner shot down by the Fecal gov. over Shanksville? If so- why aren't the taxpayers given a proper accounting?

    4. Philip Zelikow is one of the authors of the PNAC; and he is in charge of the 9/11 Commission?!

    5. The Commission itself: Bush initially authorizes 3 million dollars [lol] to investigate the most spectacular crime against America- and he wants to appoint Heinz Kissinger to lead it!? WTF?

    5. ...And let's not forget the puts on those particular airlines just prior to " the event". The Wall St. casinos are To Big To Jail. I forgot- RICO is just for us wops.

    Why must you continually malign the Truth? Is the Truth such a radical departure from these wicked times we live in, that it is considered the realm of drooling psychotics? [your words]Should people be locked up in a State G.U.L.A.G. system for pursuing it?
    , @Paul C.
    NIST did not publish their scientific modeling showing how WTC 7 was a progressive collapse. The scientific community demands peer review. It's a complete whitewash. They're saying column 79 was compromised and triggered a chain of events (progressive).

    If WTC 7 was made of wood, you still couldn't get it to collapse into its own footprint in 8 seconds.

    Wake up, you've been lied to!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv7BImVvEyk
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  233. @Dave1962
    911 has the stench and fingerprints of Israel/Zionists all over it.
    After all, according to Netanyahu "it was good for Israel".
    This devious tribe would have no compunctions seeing 1 million American (non-Jews) killed if it benefitted Israel in the slightest way.

    9/11 has the stupidity of millions of Native Born White Americans all over it…they should have devoted their free time to shutting down Muslim immigration forever. 9/11 was completely avoidable:0 Muslims in America=9/11 never happens….1+1=2 f……g easy…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Are you Rita Katz?
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  234. @John Jeremiah Smith

    You really can’t help yourself, can you?
     
    Well, you must love it, 'cause you keep on asking for it.

    Indeed, don’t stop.

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  235. @Paul C.
    CNN, FOX and BBC all reported the collapse of WTC 7 before the collapse of WTC 7. They never explained how they got it wrong (reporting of a collapsed building that is still standing). They never explained how they knew it would fall. Fire has never collapsed a steel skyscraper in world history, except on 9/11. Not only did it fall but it fell at nearly free fall speed (8 seconds), meaning no resistance from the 80 columns on each of the 47 floors. This means that over 3,700 columns (80 x 47) had to collapse simultaneously from an office fire, when at the time of collapse, there was no evidence of a fire still burning.

    And lastly, why has no MSM (NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NY Times, Wash Post etc...) ever written about how this building collapsed and to this day still will not touch it?

    Our media is controlled by the gov't and our gov't has been hijacked.

    Guess what you'll also never read about, the legality of the Fed (Federal Reserve). These private bankers have effectively enslaved the rest of us and are running the show.

    A nit-pick: it’s free-fall acceleration, not speed.

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  236. @Alfred
    "In my own area, of expertise, which is intelligence"

    I wonder whether "intelligence" includes mathematics?

    Number of Israelis killed in Twin Towers = zero
    Number of people killed in Twin Towers = 2996
    Expected percentage Israelis in buildings of the New York financial centre = 10%
    Expected number of Israelis killed in 2 buildings = 299%

    Chi-squared probability of all of them, by chance, forgetting to show up at work on that day = 0%

    It’s probably reasonable to assume the % of Israelis working in the twin towers was the same as the NYC financial industry as a whole (which is what I assume your 10% number represents), but is the actual % for the twin towers known?

    Apart from that, great point. In general, the disproportionate representation of Jews in various positions of power (media, govt, etc.) cannot be explained by statistical happenstance, it’s clearly ethnic networking. Which, you know, liberals generally say is a no-no.

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  237. @reiner Tor

    They never explained how they got it wrong (reporting of a collapsed building that is still standing).
     
    That's not a very good argument. The building was - according to the official version - on the verge of collapse. In the confusion, right after they pulled out the firefighters due to the imminent collapse, a reporter might have misunderstood what he was told ("it's about to collapse" vs. "it has collapsed"), and then told a news agency or a tv channel, and the "news" was picked up by others before it was withdrawn. Then, a short time later, the tower did indeed collapse. What's so difficult?

    What’s difficult to believe is that, even given the chaotic circumstances, anyone on the ground could confuse “about to collapse” with “collapsed”.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    But how do you know it was someone on the ground? Have you ever played telephone? (Chinese whispers.) Maybe someone on the ground told on the phone someone thousands of miles away, and he misunderstood. False rumors are started always during such cases, what's so difficult to believe there?
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  238. @War for Blair Mountain
    9/11 has the stupidity of millions of Native Born White Americans all over it...they should have devoted their free time to shutting down Muslim immigration forever. 9/11 was completely avoidable:0 Muslims in America=9/11 never happens....1+1=2 f......g easy...

    Are you Rita Katz?

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  239. iffen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty
    So, things like death by steam/electricity on conveyor belts, geysers of blood, human lamp shades, gas chambers with windows, etc.?

    No, just millions beat to death, summarily shot and killed, gassed or starved to death with the bodies burned in incinerators; not just men, lots of women and children.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    Beaten to death? That's a new one.
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  240. Che Guava says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty
    There are parallels with Pearl Harbor, certainly, to facilitate a war that otherwise wouldn't have occurred. But there is also parallel with Hiroshima, namely a weapons test meant to intimidate potential foreign adversaries.

    I am not sure what you mean, I suppose your comparison is of the WTC incident with Pearl Harbour?

    If so, valid to an extent, but the informational tricks are almost like inverses in some ways.

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    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
    I'm just making a comparison (imperfect) between WTC and both Pearl Harbor (a pretext) and Hiroshima (a weapons test).
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  241. iffen says:
    @RaceRealist88

    So who benefited from 9/11?
     
    Israel, America, etc. It's mostly for Israel's expansion for Greater Israel. Cause strife in the Middle East, cause migration. Go to war, have Americans and others fight and die for Israel, then Israel gets to expand. This all was a precursor for Greater Israel.

    http://www.unz.com/article/war-is-realizing-the-israelizing-of-the-world/

    So who benefited from 9/11?

    Israel, America, etc. It’s mostly for Israel’s expansion for Greater Israel. Cause strife in the Middle East, cause migration. Go to war, have Americans and others fight and die for Israel, then Israel gets to expand. This all was a precursor for Greater Israel.

    Israel seems to have been able to expand on more than one occasion prior to 9/11, which means that 9/11 is/was not essential for Israeli expansion.

    The Middle East did not require 9/11 to create strife. Strife in the Middle East has been present since historical times and by genetic and archaeologic evidence it existed pre-history.

    America has been going to war world-wide since the dawning of Pax America (even before) it is not restricted to the Middle East.

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    • Replies: @RaceRealist88

    Israel seems to have been able to expand on more than one occasion prior to 9/11, which means that 9/11 is/was not essential for Israeli expansion."
     
    Of course, but it wouldn't hurt right? That has them expand even more. When you look t 911 through the lens of "being beneficial for Israel", it all makes sense.

    "The Middle East did not require 9/11 to create strife. Strife in the Middle East has been present since historical times and by genetic and archaeologic evidence it existed pre-history."
     
    Oh of course. I believe that the Jews et al are using the Arabs' natural genetic proclivities to achieve their goals. I think it's twofold. 1) cause more strife than was currently had to force migration so Israel can expand (ISIS was created to overthrow Asaad for Israel) and 2) show the countries who recognized Palestine as a state what Arabs are like. Bibi made a specific comment a few years ago specifically saying that recognizing Palestine was a "grave mistake" for Sweden, and France. Sweden got hit with tons of them and, not coincidentally, two terrorist attacks happened in France within 365 days of each other. Hmm.

    "America has been going to war world-wide since the dawning of Pax America (even before) it is not restricted to the Middle East."
     
    Of course. But the attacks on the ME are only a net gain for Israel, a negative for us since our people are dying so Israel can expand.
    , @geokat62

    The Middle East did not require 9/11 to create strife.
     
    Hey, iffen. Could you do us a favour and give us your impressions of PNAC's A Clean Break and/or Oded Yinon's A Strategy for Israel During the 1980s?

    If your goal is as ambitious as remaking the ME, an extraordinary catalyst is needed, no?


    America has been going to war world-wide since the dawning of Pax America (even before) it is not restricted to the Middle East.
     
    True enough, but all these previous wars were fought to benefit America's interests. The wars in the ME are fought to benefit Israel's interests.
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  242. Rurik says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Miro

    Your just making shit up to promote your 9/11 Truther psychosis....


    You a raising sewage that has been for been refuted for 15 years...hint:it's what you leave out...among other things Truthers lie by omission...15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11...



    One can find very easily dozens of debates with 9/11 Truthers about the very point you just raised in You Tube debates with 9/11 Truthers....9/11 Truthers always running away shrieking with there tails behind their legs...

    15 years and you still blathering on about nonsense that was refuted in great detail by engineers and physicist one month after 9/11…

    I confess I usually ignore you, but your tenacity at being dishonest and wrong are only outdone by your inanity

    everything you write is brazenly false and blatantly stupid, and it always lacks even a shred of brio. Just tiresome bromides and drab contrarian chaff for its own sake.

    >sigh<

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  243. @iffen
    No, just millions beat to death, summarily shot and killed, gassed or starved to death with the bodies burned in incinerators; not just men, lots of women and children.

    Beaten to death? That’s a new one.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Beaten to death? That’s a new one.

    Not that you care.

    "In many cities and communities, SA men occupied town halls and exacted revenge on representatives of the Weimar “system.” SPD offices and newspapers were also occupied, their furnishings destroyed, and their employees abused and taken to cellars and holding cells, where they, together with already-detained Communists, were mercilessly tortured by Hitler’s henchmen. Rudolf Diels bluntly described what such a torture chamber was like in the spring of 1933."

    The victims we found there were close to starvation. They had been confined for days in narrow closets in an attempt to force “confessions” from them. The “interrogations” began and ended with beatings. Around a dozen brutes had taken turns beating the victims with iron bars, plastic batons and whips. Knocked-out teeth and broken bones bore witness to the torture. When we entered the space, whole rows of living skeletons were lying on rotten straw, their wounds festering. To a man, their bodies were covered with blue, yellow and green bruises from inhuman beatings. Many of their eyes were swollen shut, and blood had congealed under their nostrils. There was no groaning or complaint. They simply waited for the end to come or for the next beating to commence…
     
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  244. Rurik says:
    @CanSpeccy

    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air
     
    LOL. But give the lad a chance. He's just trying out at this propaganda gig. He'll no doubt get better if we give him a real work out.

    get better if we give him a real work out.

    I guess we’ll see, eh?

    ;)

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    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    Re: Thge possibility of inducing JJ Smith to engage in sensible discussion

    I guess we’ll see, eh?
     
    I may have misjudged him.

    I'd thought he might gradually be induced to engage in a Socratic dialog with the possibility of enlightenment. But it seems, rather, that he's a perfect end product of the current Western idea of education: a mass of politically correct prejudices, slogans, sneers, smears and jeers.

    But then could JJ be, in fact, an early version artificially intelligent agent of cognitive infiltration? If so, the techies over at the CIA, DARPA, or wherever, still have some work to do.

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  245. @Che Guava
    I am not sure what you mean, I suppose your comparison is of the WTC incident with Pearl Harbour?

    If so, valid to an extent, but the informational tricks are almost like inverses in some ways.

    I’m just making a comparison (imperfect) between WTC and both Pearl Harbor (a pretext) and Hiroshima (a weapons test).

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  246. @anonymous

    quick writing
     
    It shows.

    since Ron executed multiple handles, unable to post as Anonymous.

    vid:

    Anonymous doesn’t seem to be your usual commenter name, and this website requires commenters to either use their sole Handle, or else use Anonymous or Anon. Please check for typos and retry, or contact us if you believe some mistake has been made.
    RETURN TO COMMENTING BOX

    your paranoia is showing, Sam.
    It’s also affecting your creativity: humorous your “quick writing” was not.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Now, why would you be bothered to reply to this post I wonder, surely you don't see eye to eye with the late lamented Joseph?
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  247. Rurik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    anything cynical about Conspiracy Theory?
     

    Both are conspiracy theories, so which conspiracy theory do you adhere to?
     
    Which one is more cynical?

    Which one is more cynical?

    the point is that your fixation with “conspiracy theories” is hackneyed and bovine

    like calling someone a “racist” because they questioned Obama’s birth certificate. Those loaded terms are the Pavlovian equivalent of dogs salivating at the bell. Call someone a “conspiracy theorist” and the anticipated stimulus / response is supposed to shut them up. But a ‘discussion’ at the kneejerk level of is beneath you JJ. Surely you have something more cerebral than paeans to reflexes ?

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    the point is that your fixation with “conspiracy theories” is hackneyed and bovine
     
    Are you being serious? Have you read these several-hundred comments? In that light, one must assume you joke in accusing ME of "fixation".

    I'm terribly sorry if you feel that the label "conspiracy theorist", or "C-Theorist" for short, is somehow equivalent to calling someone a racist. Are you, or are you not, a person who believes that at least ONE, if not several, conspiracies are involved with the events of 9/11? Come now, how can you deny it? Do you regard yourself pejoratively as a person who has a theory that 9/11 involved a conspiracy?

    I think I have some understanding, if not much sympathy, for people whose interest is held by various conspiracies. That it lessens my respect for some people, depending on the level of general wackiness of some given C-theory, I admit. So what? We're even. As I have said many, many times over: Believe as you like.
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  248. iffen says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty
    Beaten to death? That's a new one.

    Beaten to death? That’s a new one.

    Not that you care.

    “In many cities and communities, SA men occupied town halls and exacted revenge on representatives of the Weimar “system.” SPD offices and newspapers were also occupied, their furnishings destroyed, and their employees abused and taken to cellars and holding cells, where they, together with already-detained Communists, were mercilessly tortured by Hitler’s henchmen. Rudolf Diels bluntly described what such a torture chamber was like in the spring of 1933.”

    The victims we found there were close to starvation. They had been confined for days in narrow closets in an attempt to force “confessions” from them. The “interrogations” began and ended with beatings. Around a dozen brutes had taken turns beating the victims with iron bars, plastic batons and whips. Knocked-out teeth and broken bones bore witness to the torture. When we entered the space, whole rows of living skeletons were lying on rotten straw, their wounds festering. To a man, their bodies were covered with blue, yellow and green bruises from inhuman beatings. Many of their eyes were swollen shut, and blood had congealed under their nostrils. There was no groaning or complaint. They simply waited for the end to come or for the next beating to commence…

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Exactly right Iffen.

    Although Diels, the Gestapo chief was the executor in many of these torture programmes, in the case of the Reichstag Fire, the credit must go to old Hermann Göring, who at a luncheon on the birthday of the Fuehrer in 1942 when the conversation turned to the topic of the Reichstag building and its artistic value, interrupted the conversation and shouted: "The only one who really knows about the Reichstag is I, because I set it on fire!" With that, he slapped his thigh with the flat of his hand. [Rudolf Diels' Affidavit, Nuremberg 1946 ]

    Diels had a curious relationship with Göring who protected him on at least two occasions. He'd also married Hermann's cousin; yet in the final days of the Reich, most of the devoted competed to turn on each other.
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  249. Rurik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

     


    what bodies?
    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane
    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air
     
    Do a little more research. Most of the flight 93 bodies were identified and sent to their kin to be buried. I believe it was 8 that were unidentifiable -- they are buried in Shanksville.

    How come I know more about this than you professional C-Theorists? Other than my BIL working as a CIA analyst, who let slip that Flight 93 was shot down?

    Do a little more research. Most of the flight 93 bodies were identified and sent to their kin to be buried.

    here’s the local coroner describing what he saw at the “crash site”.

    he has since walked those comments back and said there were bodies all over the place. But you can tell he’s scared.

    Other than my BIL working as a CIA analyst, who let slip that Flight 93 was shot down?

    you’ve said that before, and I hope it’s not lost on you that what you’re describing is a ‘conspiracy theory’ whereby the government and media, and local coroner and everybody involved from top to bottom has colluded in this lie to cover up what really happened to flight 93.

    OK ?

    and because of that, and your obvious willingness to concede such a ‘conspiracy theory’ is often spot on, I’ve always assumed you were just trolling when you show up and try to shill for the official version of events on that day. Which, come to think of it, is what I still think. ;)

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    I reiterate:

    Do a little more research. Most of the flight 93 bodies were identified and sent to their kin to be buried.
     

    you’ve said that before, and I hope it’s not lost on you that what you’re describing is a ‘conspiracy theory’ whereby the government and media, and local coroner and everybody involved from top to bottom has colluded in this lie to cover up what really happened to flight 93.
     
    A cover-up is not a conspiracy; it's a bureaucratic reaction to actions that will get bad press. That thousands of people plotted to, basically, fake an attack on 9/11, THAT would be a conspiracy.
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  250. Sandy Berger.
    (1945-2015) . RIP.
    Deep State’s janitor/anti-archivist extraordinaire.
    Unfortunately his gallant and sometimes comical effort’s to keep documents from 911 commission are largely forgotten.

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  251. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama
    So here goes: [quick writing so pardon any obvious errors]

    On 9/11, at least three commercial airliners with passengers took off for various destinations. These planes were then quickly taken over by special agents - "elements of the administration, CIA, NSA, Mossad"- commandeered to a secret location -naturally, this secret destination, deep underground and built for this very purpose years earlier was a small replica of the USAF central command - where passengers and crew were disembarked, liquidated, or, set up with new identities spirited away to lives at sunny destinations accompanied by drinks with little umbrellas stuck on cherries. On the whole, one would pick the liquidation option, given the participation of Anglo-Judaics of prudent stock raised in the habits of parsimony. The planes were thereafter switched on for fully remote-controlled flight. There had been some discussion whether aircraft need be used at all; alternative c-g imagery being quite available with a decade having passed since Jurassic Park, but the genuine articles won the day owing to the curmudgeons "higher-up" prevailing over the millennials in the circle.

    The reader is to be reminded that the purpose of the operation was to create an incident sufficient in magnitude so as to unleash the public's wrath and the consequent dogs of war - GW and Cheney never tired of reminding the plotters of this essential bit. The millennials thought it ample persuasion, crashing the planes with the ensuing fires, but as usual the curmudgeons weren't having any of it. The financial aspect was strangely missing. Someone knew Larry Silverstein. Calls had been made and payoffs negotiated with no agreement for months. Larry even threatened to call off the entire thing, noting that his share was insufficient, given the overtime he'd have to pay the demolition crew. Goldman Sachs was brought in, valuations simulated for days and the figure of $4.55B was obtained. Goldman took the customary 5%. The millennials had been making some noise about the plane crashes possibly disengaging the controlled demolition charges. This was roundly dismissed by the curmudgeons who advised the Mills to stop faffing about and get back to video games.

    So the remotely operated planes re-taking off from the secret pacific Island unerringly made their ways to the WTC, the Pentagon, and, the White House. Midway through the flights, it was discovered that the First Lady and important VIPs including the POTUS' canines were still at 1600 Penn Ave. GWB understandably threw a fit and threatened Texan reprisals. The problem was easily solved as it only required a flight diversion to a field in rural PA. Millennials quite cannily concocted "Let's Roll". Trade-marked tee-shirts with the banner fetched handsome and continuing revenues.

    End of Part I.

    P.S. : Are we to have a citizens' inquiry? If so, I hereby nominate R&R as co-chairs.

    USAF central command – where passengers and crew were disembarked, liquidated, or, set up with new identities spirited away to lives at sunny destinations accompanied by drinks with little umbrellas stuck on cherries.

    Hi Sam,

    yea, I used that term ‘liquidated’ intentionally

    I wanted to tweak something in the normal human centers of compassion for all of us non-psychopaths to try to get us to glimmer the mind of a true psychopath. For psychopaths- like the ones who drone weddings to send a message of terror to peasants- not to mess with the US, or who machine gun local guys standing around bullshitting on the streets of their city, liquidating civilians is nothing. As Waco was brought up earlier in this thread, we already know our government would not only liquidate, but cynically burn alive men, women and children- to send a message across America that you don’t mess with the US Fecal government, or else. The same message they sent to journalists when they assassinated Michael Hastings.

    These are the real-deal psychopaths who play for keeps. Handing chemical weapons to foreign terrorists in Syria to use on children is child’s play for them. They don’t bat an eye. It gives them neither pleasure or discomfort of any kind to push a button on people, (men, women or children). All they do is see their self-interest and pursue it, period.

    So yea, I don’t know if they landed and disembarked the passengers on that day, or if they sent the jets with them inside into the buildings. The first scenario simply seems more likely to me, but then that’s one we may never know. What we do know is that human life is insignificant to these people, who plan wars and in Hillary’ case; gloat over men tortured to death. And I don’t just mean ambassador Stevens, but Gadhafi too.

    They’re not like you and me. They’re a special breed, and the kind of power that can be wielded by the people with the US military at their fingertips, is irresistible to men and women like that.

    Just consider Lucky Larry. He had the PA system in the second tower tell all the people to go back to their offices, knowing a second plane was on its way, and wanting the maximum number of casualties. These were people he knew, and spoke to daily. And he cynically wanted for as many of them to die horribly as he could accomplish. Would it make it any worse if he called it “liquidating” them?

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama

    Just consider Lucky Larry. He had the PA system in the second tower tell all the people to go back to their offices, knowing a second plane was on its way, and wanting the maximum number of casualties.
     
    So, with utter abandon, throwing all reasonable caution to the wind, you are asserting Larry Silverstein's hand in the incident - mind you no one in the truther community has come anywhere close to establishing a substantive account of the event.
    , @WorkingClass
    I want to commend your understanding of the evil and the abundance of these psycho killers. It is not possible in my opinion to make sense of politics without this understanding.
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  252. Rurik says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    The shit above the crippling blast would still have fallen straight down from its CG above in absence of a meaningful force to torque it to the side. Ever wonder why so many people drop trees on their houses?
     
    Because trees fall straight down, crumbling into the bottom of the trunk?

    If the bottom floor demolition charges detonated early, it is quite likely the building would fall to the side. However, I'll make it easy. Suppose the charges on the bottom 3 floors only detonated on one side? Over she goes, and takes out half of downtown Manhattan. The vertical collapse was extremely fortuitous. The notion that experts in building takedowns would sneak around in closets and equipment rooms. planting C-4 and miles of wiring, all of which had to be concealed, and never tested? Perfect synchronization, never tested? Horseshit!

    So, the seekrut conspiracy spends six months planting demolition charges in the two towers -- nobody notices from building engineering services? Getoutatown, that's bullshit. Why plant charges in Bldg 7 at all? With the gubmint and CIA in there an all. Whuffo? And, detonate Bldg 7 eight hours later? Whuffo? Getoutatown, that's bullshit.

    Look, for me to fuss with wackies is entertaining, but silly. I feel a little soiled, but there corned beef and cabbage on the table, served by a beautiful and interesting woman. C-ya.

    Why plant charges in Bldg 7 at all?

    ask Lucky Larry

    we don’t know the why of it and we don’t need to

    what we know is that they did it. Building seven is the smoking gun. They fucked up and now we know they did it. All your blather in defense of the people who did it is quite telling.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    All your blather in defense of the people who did it is quite telling.
     
    I agree and would like to respectfully suggest that Outhouse Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Lies stick to commenting on privy prettification ala...

    John Jeremiah Smith
    says:
    October 25, 2016 at 2:35 am GMT • 100 Words


    I’m thinking just a 5-foot French door between the kitchen “eat-in” area and the dining room. For awhile (sic), I thought maybe a 4-foot French door with tastefully-subdued stained-glass sidelights, but I’ve got a pile of rough-sawn native cherry up in the shed attic. I’ll make a fluted 8-inch molding on both sides, and a crown above. Should look pretty good.


    :)

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  253. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @War for Blair Mountain
    John Jeremiah Smith


    And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse.....and it refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of free fall-although the 9/11 to this day dishonestly claim the NIST measurement of the time of the collapse supports their free fall theory. The authors of the NIST reject the 9/11 Truther misrepresentation of their research.

    “And the NIST did a painstaking detailed measurement of how long it took for building 7 to collapse…..and it refutes the 9/11 Truther claim of free fall”

    That statement is simply false – a lie.

    Ironically, those labeling the “truthers” here as “nuts” or “paranoid” offer no evidence. They simply point out inconsistencies in the “truthers” explanations (the same thing they accuse truthers of doing). They then attempt to bolster their argument by insinuating that because they agree with the government sposored view, their opinion is inherently more credible than the “truthers”. Finally, they attempt to impair the opposing argument by the use of derogatory name calling.

    Pot, kettle, black

    What is needed is sound science and understanding of basic scientific principal as well as logic

    For example, it is contrary to the laws of physics for a plane that did a nose dive intact into a farm field to spew debris a mile away in the direction opposite of travel.

    From this basic fact we can conclude that without a doubt, the goverment is lying to us about some aspects of 911.

    Now, Fred, and you other “anti-truthers,” where do YOU draw the line on what parts of the 911 story the government is lying about or not? On what basis do you draw that line except an objective, competent, independent investigation?

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  254. Rurik says:
    @L.K
    John Jeremiah Smith "Since Iran has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo"

    Let me help you a bit, fool... take my hand, so you don't fall flat on your face & break that Pinocchio nose of yours, and let's change your previous sentence just one bit, so that for once, you'll get it right:

    "Since ISRAEL has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo"

    Now you got it! Good boy.

    “Since ISRAEL has been the primary source/instigator of all our troubles in the ME from the gitgo”

    I thought maybe he was being sarcastic with that Iran bullshit

    But I think you’re right L.K., and JJ is a ringer

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  255. Sam Shama says:
    @CanSpeccy

    but I thought you and fellow theorists ...
     
    So, you start from a mistaken assumption and you arrive, naturally, at a mistaken conclusion.

    I take responsibility only for my own statements. That there are crackpots who say this, that or the other is not my fault. To suggest that I am part of a fellowship of theorists is as unwarranted as my suggesting that you work for the Mossad or the CIA. Whereof one has no evidence, thereof one is wisest not to speak.

    I see,

    So it’s a species of macabre comedy you chaps are involved in, one would have to assume, since here is Rurik:

    Rurik says:
    October 25, 2016 at 9:42 pm GMT

    The bodies of the purported passengers? Planted by CIA/FBI/NSA/Seekrut Agents.

    what bodies?

    there were no bodies, and no luggage and no plane

    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

    To which you reply:

    CanSpeccy
    October 25, 2016 at 9:51 pm GMT

    you’re flailing around at phantoms, conjuring bodies and jousting at air

    LOL. But give the lad a chance. He’s just trying out at this propaganda gig. He’ll no doubt get better if we give him a real work out.

    and here you are sending me in the direction of http://old.post-gazette.com/headlines/20011027flight931027p5.asp

    CanSpeccy says: • Website
    October 26, 2016 at 12:27 am GMT • 100 Words

    [........]
    Incidentally, there seems no reason to doubt that the passengers aboard the highjacked airliners did indeed die, since positive DNA identification of most if not all victims was