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The Jews of West Africa?
Bronze vessel in the form of a snail shell, 9th century, Igbo-Ukwu. The Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa. Credit: Wikimedia Commons
Bronze vessel in the form of a snail shell, 9th century, Igbo-Ukwu. The Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa. Credit: Wikimedia Commons
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There has been much talk here about Chanda Chisala’s article “The IQ gap is no longer a black and white issue.” Much of the article focuses on the Igbo (known also as Ibo), a people who live in the Niger Delta and “are well known to be high academic achievers within Nigeria.” In the United Kingdom, their children do as well in school as Chinese and Indian students:

The superior Igbo achievement on GCSEs is not new and has been noted in studies that came before the recent media discovery of African performance. A 2007 report on “case study” model schools in Lambeth also included a rare disclosure of specified Igbo performance (recorded as Ibo in the table below) and it confirms that Igbos have been performing exceptionally well for a long time (5 + A*-C GCSEs); in fact, it is difficult to find a time when they ever performed below British whites. (Chisala, 2015)

The Igbo have long been known as achievers, particularly in business. Whereas trade is largely women’s work in the rest of West Africa, it is dominated by Igbo of both sexes in Nigeria.

[...] In study after study, it has been documented that the Ibo, through conflict and mobility, have been very successful in enterprise. Indeed, a major study argued that the Ibo have a very high need for achievement in the business world. Still another study showed that the majority of entrepreneurs in the sample were Ibo.(Butler, 1997, p. 178)

Sabino and Hall (1999) describe them as being “competitive, individualistic, status-conscious, antiauthoritarian, pragmatic, and practical—a people with a strongly developed commercial sense.” In colonial-era literature, they were often called “the Jews of West Africa” (see note).

Prehistory

How did the Igbo become so entrepreneurial? It’s possible that their location in the Niger Delta predisposed them to be go-betweens in trade between coastal and interior peoples. Similar assemblages of glass beads, many of Egyptian origin and dating to the 9th and 14th centuries, have been recovered from the Niger Delta and eastern Mali, indicating that the Niger acted as a conduit of trade from the Atlantic coast to the Sahel and thence to the Middle East (Davison,1972; Insoll and Shaw, 1997).

Archaeological sites in the Niger Delta show that advanced economic development began much earlier there than elsewhere in West Africa. This is seen in early use of metallurgy. At one metallurgical complex, dated to 765 BC, iron ore was smelted in furnaces measuring a meter wide. The molten slag was drained through conduits to pits, where it formed blocks weighing up to 43-47 kg. The operating temperatures are estimated to have varied between 1,155 and 1,450 degrees C (Holl, 2009). Some radiocarbon dates for iron smelting in this region go back to 2000 BC (Eze-Uzomaka, 2009).

This production seems to have been in excess of local needs and therefore driven by trade with other peoples:

One aspect which can be inferred from the cylindrical slag blocks left behind is that the Lejja smelters must have had excess production of iron, and this may have led to extensive trade to far and distant places, sustained over a long period of time. (Eze-Uzomaka, 2009)

This metallurgy is unusual not only in its early date for West Africa but also in its subsequent development, which reached a high level of sophistication despite a lack of borrowing from metallurgical traditions in the Middle East and Europe. This may be seen in more than 700 artefacts of bronze, copper, and iron recovered from the Igbo-Ukwu site and dated to the 9th century AD:

They are the oldest bronze artifacts known in West African and were manufactured centuries before the emergence of other known bronze producing centers such as those of Ife and Benin. The bronzes include numerous ritual vessels, pendants, crowns, breastplates, staff ornaments, swords, and fly-whisk handles.

The Igbo-Ukwu bronzes amazed the world with a very high level of technical and artistic proficiency and sophistication which was at this time distinctly more advanced than bronze casting in Europe.

[...] Apparently the metal workers of ancient Igbo-Ukwu were not aware of commonly used techniques such as wire making, soldering or riveting which suggests an independent development and long isolation of their metal working tradition.

[...] Some of the techniques used by the ancient smiths are not known to have been used outside Igbo-Ukwu such as the production of complex objects in stages with the different parts later fixed together by brazing or by casting linking sections to join them.(Wikipedia, 2015)

Contact with European traders

Thus, even before the first European contacts in the 16th century, the Igbo were already the focus of a network of trading relationships that extended outward from the Niger Delta. European traders became integrated into this trade network, thereby enabling the Igbo to emerge as valued middlemen in the slave trade:

The peoples of south-eastern Nigeria have been involved in trade for as long as there are any records. The archaeological sites at Igbo-Ukwu and other evidence reveal long distance trade in metal and beads, as well as regional trade in salt, cloth, and beads at an early date. The lower Niger River and its Delta featured prominently in this early trade, and evidence is offered to suggest a continuity in the basic modes of trade on the lower Niger from c. A.D. 1500 to the mid-nineteenth century. An attempt to sketch the basic economic institutions of the Igbo hinterland before the height of the slave trade stresses regional trading networks in salt, cloth, and metal, the use of currencies, and a nexus of religious and economic institutions and persons. It is argued that while the growth of the slave trade appears to have been handled without major changes in the overall patterns of trade along the lower Niger, in the Igbo hinterland a new marketing ‘grid’, dominated by the Arochuku traders, was created using the pre-existent regional trading networks and religious values as a base. (Northrop, 1972)

British colonial rule

Great Britain took over Nigeria initially as part of its effort to outlaw the slave trade. Lagos was annexed in 1861 and a sphere of influence over the country was recognized in 1885 at the Berlin Conference, although a protectorate would not be proclaimed until 1901.

ORDER IT NOW

This new political environment favored the Igbo, whose initiative, self-discipline, and future orientation predisposed them to succeed not only in their homeland but also elsewhere in Nigeria, where they soon became dominant as merchants and civil servants. They thus took on a role like that of middleman minorities elsewhere in the empire, such as the Parsis in western India, the Chinese in Malaya, and the South Asians in East Africa. By the 1930s, one Igbo boasted that “the Ibo domination of Nigeria is a matter of time” (Ibrahim, 2000, p. 56). This trend even affected the army. By independence, 24 of the 52 senior army officers of the rank of major and above were Igbos (Ibrahim, 2000,p. 55).

This dominance led to jealousy among Nigerians in the north and west, who accused the Igbo of unfair business practices:

In the private sector they [the Hausa Muslims] are open to the exploitation of the Ibo control of the modern sector of private business activities. Ibos fix prices unilaterally by which Hausa money is siphoned daily. The Hausa are reduced to utter poverty and a large percentage of them rendered street beggars. (quoted in Ibrahim, 2000, p. 52)

According to Arthur Nwankwo (1985:9) “Nigerians of all other ethnic groups will probably achieve consensus on no other matter than their common resentment of the Igbo”, a phenomenon that Chinua Achebe had dubbed “the Igbo problem”. They argue that the Igbos are more cosmopolitan, more adapted to other cultures, more individualistic and competitive, more receptive to change and more prone to settle and work in other parts of the country but the myth persists that they are aggressive, arrogant and clannish. (Ibrahim, 2000, p.55)

Independence, civil war, and the aftermath

Independence came to Nigeria in 1960, and with it growing disillusionment among many Igbo, particularly with the perceived instability and corruption of the political process. In 1966, Igbo officers staged a coup and seized control of the country, killing the prime minister and the premiers of the northern and western regions. Northern army officers then staged a countercoup, and Igbo began to flee northern cities in the wake of persecution.

The next year, in 1967, the Igbo seceded and formed their own country, the Republic of Biafra. They lost the ensuing civil war at the cost of a million civilian deaths and a devastated homeland. Nonetheless, they are today building on “the remarkable Igbo economic and commercial élan that has occurred since the end of the civil war” (Ibrahim, 2000, p. 56).

Yet mistrust remains: “the North and the West have a deep-seated mistrust of the Igbo and so are bent on restricting, containing, and denying the Igbo their political right. Added to this is their subtle message to other minority groups: the Igbo, as a group, are not to be trusted!” (Abidde, 2004). This mistrust is founded on a not unjustified perception that the Igbo will prevail on any level playing field:

Collectively, the Igbo are wealthy, educated, and intelligent. These are people with global influence, strength of character, élan and self confidence. The Igbo nation has attributes most other Nigerian nations can only dream of; and are what most other nations are not. The Igbo made and makes Nigeria better. Any wonder then that the Igbo can do without Nigeria; but Nigeria and her myriad nationalities cannot do without the Igbo? Take the Igbo out of the Nigeria equation, and Nigeria will be a wobbling giant gasping for air! (Abidde, 2004)

Today, there is growing recognition in Nigeria that the Igbo can and should be given more political and economic power, but there is still a fear that they will use such power selfishly and not for the good of all Nigerians.

Conclusion

Chanda Chisala uses the Igbo example to refute the “hereditarian-HBD” argument. In doing so, he comes closer to the HBD position than he may realize. Recent work on gene-culture coevolution has shown that the average mental makeup of human populations can change significantly over a short span of historical time. This notably seems to have happened with the Ashkenazi Jews and the English between the Middle Ages and the 19th century (Clark et al., 2007; Cochran et al., 2006).

Why couldn’t a similar process have happened with the Igbo? Why assume that sub-Saharan Africa is a monolith whose diverse populations have evolved in exactly the same way? We know that human genetic evolution didn’t slow down with the coming of culture. It actually sped up (Hawks et al., 2007). For the most part, we humans have diversified genetically in response to differences in cultural environment and not to differences in natural environment. It is therefore plausible that the different cultures of Africa have had different effects on the gene pools of their respective populations.

I can hear the answer to my question: “You guys are the ones who think all blacks are alike!” Well, that isn’t what I think.

On a final note, I couldn’t help noticing the many commenters who complimented Chanda on sticking it to the HBD crowd. Don’t they understand the logical contraposition? If it can be shown that some African groups have higher cognitive ability, doesn’t the converse become plausible and even expectable?

Note

It may be that a similar sort of nickname had evolved into the word “Igbo” itself: “[...] some Ibo claim that the word “Hebrew” must have been mutilated to “Ubru” or “Ibru,” then to “Uburu,” and later to “Ibo.”” (Butler, 1997, pp. 177-178). This is plausible, given that the Igbo initially had a weak sense of collective identity and may not have had a native name for themselves, thus inclining them to take a name given by outsiders. There are examples of this sort of thing elsewhere in Africa. The Tukulor of Senegal, for instance, were originally called the “two colors” by European travellers because some of them were light-skinned and others dark-skinned.

References

Abidde, S.O. (2004). The Nigerian Presidency and the Igbo Nation,Gamji
http://www.gamji.com/article3000/NEWS3755.htm

Butler, J.S. (1997). Why Booker T. Washington was right. A reconsideration of the economics of race,” in T.D. Boston (ed.) A Different Vision: African American economic thought, Volume 1, (pp. 174-193), Psychology Press
https://books.google.ca/books?id=WMwRwp9QImAC&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Chisala, C. (2015). The IQ gap is no longer a black and white issue,The Unz Review, June 25
http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/

Clark, G. (2007). A Farewell to Alms. A Brief Economic History of the World, Princeton University Press, Princeton and Oxford.

Cochran, G., J. Hardy, and H. Harpending. (2006). Natural history of Ashkenazi intelligence, Journal of Biosocial Science, 38, 659-693.
http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/trial.link/Ashkenazi.pdf

Davison, C.C. (1972). Glass beads in African archaeology: Results of neutron activation analysis, supplemented by results of X-ray fluorescence analysis, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, University of California
http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/04/055/4055606.pdf

Eze-Uzomaka, P. (2009). Iron and its influence on the prehistoric site of Lejja, World of Iron Conference
https://www.academia.edu/4103707/Iron_and_its_influence_on_the_prehistoric_site_of_Lejja

Hawks, J., E.T. Wang, G.M. Cochran, H.C. Harpending, and R.K. Moyzis. (2007). Recent acceleration of human adaptive evolution,Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences U.S.A., 104, 20753-20758.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/5761823_Recent_acceleration_of_human_adaptive_evolution/file/9c9605240c4bb57b55.pdf

Holl, A. F.C. (2009). Early West African Metallurgies: New Data and Old Orthodoxy, Journal of World Prehistory, 22, 415-438

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Augustin_Holl/publication/226180393_Early_West_African_Metallurgies_New_Data_and_Old_Orthodoxy/links/00b7d52d503ee77a4c000000.pdf

Ibrahim, J. (2000). The transformation of ethno-regional identities in Nigeria, in A. Jegga (ed.) Identity Transformation and Identity Politics Under Structural Adjustment in Nigeria, (pp. 41-61), Nordic Africa Institute.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=fUWLQv8-H70C&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Insoll, T. and T. Shaw. (1997). Gao and Igbo-Ukwu: Beads, interregional trade, and beyond, African Archaeological Review, 14, 9-23
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02968364

Northrup, D. (1972). The growth of trade among the Igbo before 1880, The Journal of African History, 13,217-236.
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=3234276&fileId=S0021853700011439

Sabino, R. and J. Hall. (1999). The path not taken: Cultural identity in the interesting life of Olaudah Equiano, MELUS, 24, 5-19.

Wikipedia. (2015). Archaeology of Igbo-Ukwu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Igbo-Ukwu

(Reprinted from Evo and Proud by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Don’t trust GCSE’s. O-levels were entirely exam based and hard to falsify. GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife. A-levels and university finals exams are a better proxy.

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    • Replies: @JayMan

    GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife.
     
    Well that explains the large shared environment component found in Plomin's large twin study of it.
    , @Stan D Mute

    GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife. A-levels and university finals exams are a better proxy.
     
    I made the same comment to Chisala's original article. I call more PC propaganda here.

    Show me the objective g-loaded tests like SAT, IQ, ASVAB.

    Still, Frost went a long way toward a more convincing argument here. I still want to see the objective test data.
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  2. Britain is sickeningly PC, which is why I left. My guess is schools grades generally don’t mean what they used to. You would expect students who do really well at school to do really well at college. In the UK, white improve their performance relative to other groups at college.

    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/mar/28/white-students-better-degrees-minorities-same-grades-universities

    Remember, at lot of students in London have access to outside tutoring on the Korean/Japanese model. If you introduce a large element of continuous assessment as opposed to exams, corruption will follow.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Remember, at lot of students in London have access to outside tutoring on the Korean/Japanese model.
     
    That's one of the counter intuitive aspects of the UK stats. As the schools in the inner cities collapsed under the weight of a million languages the number of parents using private tutors shot up so some of the worst schools started to get the best grades. It's all such a joke.

    That's not to say the guy's theory isn't correct. I've known a fair few Nigerians who were noticeably bright sparks but I don't know which tribe / nation they came from (apart from not Hausa).
  3. The Chinese invaders are the Jews of West Africa. I remember reading about Chinese construction companies building residential and commercial buildings in countries like Nigeria and Angola.

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    • Replies: @dahoit
    Chinese guests please?Mutual understanding based on mutual trust,how unAmerican!The only connection between Jews and Chinese is the latter's food.
  4. @peter – “I can hear the answer to my question: ‘You guys are the ones who think all blacks are alike!’ Well, that isn’t what I think.”

    me, neither! i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences, but not everybody’s ready or willing to hear that, apparently. *sigh* there is a (rather large, unfortunately) subset of “hbd-ers” who are seriously confused.

    the igbo are also outbreeders (avoid cousin marriage), btw: fulani, hausa, igbo, and yoruba mating patterns (see also here).

    and another potential “jews of west africa” group appears to be the bamileke of cameroon. i’m not aware of any iq data on them, though.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    In Israel it is well known that inbreeding amongst ultra Orthodox Jews results in high rates of disability. By contrast the Ethiopian Jews have a traditional rule that consanguinity within about eight generations of cousinage is unacceptable. As it doesn't seem to have done much to make them cognitively competitive I proffer the following speculation, namely that it often means scraping the bottle of the barrel to find a spouse????
    , @Enrique Cardova
    hbdchick says
    i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences,

    True enough, though racial differences are at the core of HBD. They are the foundation. Without a racial enemy or "Other" to sneer at, rail against, or contrast invidiously, HBD as an ideological project essentially, falls apart.

    .
    the igbo are also outbreeders (avoid cousin marriage), btw: fulani, hausa, igbo, and yoruba mating patterns (see also here).

    The Igbo are indeed relative outbreeders, but while outbreeding may be a factor in the mix it is an open question how significant it is, compared to other variables. There are other entrepreneurial peoples who are IN-BREEDERS and empire builders to boot. There are the well known Akan peoples, from whom sprang the powerful Ashanti empire, with its far-flung individual and royal trading and also gold-mining operations. There are the Mande and Wolof and Malinke- all peoples who built substantial polities, or contributed to them. The Mande for example founded the empires of Ghana and Mali.


    .
    and another potential “jews of west africa” group appears to be the bamileke of cameroon. i’m not aware of any iq data on them, though.

    The Bamileke are known or their range of craftsmanship and wide trading activities but again, it is questionable if outbreeding has much to do with this. Other factors such as political situation, geographic location etc may be much more important. The Kikuyu of Kenya for example do not seem to be great outbreeders, yet manage to dominate Kenya's economy today with their hustling entrepreneurial spirit. They have been called the "JEws of Kenya" in some places.
  5. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @22pp22
    Britain is sickeningly PC, which is why I left. My guess is schools grades generally don't mean what they used to. You would expect students who do really well at school to do really well at college. In the UK, white improve their performance relative to other groups at college.

    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/mar/28/white-students-better-degrees-minorities-same-grades-universities

    Remember, at lot of students in London have access to outside tutoring on the Korean/Japanese model. If you introduce a large element of continuous assessment as opposed to exams, corruption will follow.

    Remember, at lot of students in London have access to outside tutoring on the Korean/Japanese model.

    That’s one of the counter intuitive aspects of the UK stats. As the schools in the inner cities collapsed under the weight of a million languages the number of parents using private tutors shot up so some of the worst schools started to get the best grades. It’s all such a joke.

    That’s not to say the guy’s theory isn’t correct. I’ve known a fair few Nigerians who were noticeably bright sparks but I don’t know which tribe / nation they came from (apart from not Hausa).

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  6. @hbd chick
    @peter - "I can hear the answer to my question: 'You guys are the ones who think all blacks are alike!' Well, that isn’t what I think."

    me, neither! i've been trying to tell people for a while now that there's more to human biodiversity than just racial differences, but not everybody's ready or willing to hear that, apparently. *sigh* there is a (rather large, unfortunately) subset of "hbd-ers" who are seriously confused.

    the igbo are also outbreeders (avoid cousin marriage), btw: fulani, hausa, igbo, and yoruba mating patterns (see also here).

    and another potential "jews of west africa" group appears to be the bamileke of cameroon. i'm not aware of any iq data on them, though.

    In Israel it is well known that inbreeding amongst ultra Orthodox Jews results in high rates of disability. By contrast the Ethiopian Jews have a traditional rule that consanguinity within about eight generations of cousinage is unacceptable. As it doesn’t seem to have done much to make them cognitively competitive I proffer the following speculation, namely that it often means scraping the bottle of the barrel to find a spouse????

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pseudonymic Handle
    Ethiopian Jews are genetically ethiopian, so their cognitive and behavioural performance is what you would expect of ethiopians.
  7. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “Why couldn’t a similar process have happened with the Igbo? Why assume that sub-Saharan Africa is a monolith whose diverse populations have evolved in exactly the same way?”

    Same among Asiatics.

    Mongolians totally dominate Sumo in Japan even though the Mongolian population is a tiny fraction of that of Japan.

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2015/01/29/sumo/hakuho-leads-sumos-mongolian-invasion/

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  8. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    I’ve always argued for dividing black Africans into different races.

    Whites and Asians are both light-skinned and straight hair. But we see them as different races cuz of facial and physical differences.

    Nigerians and Ethiopians/Somalians both have black skin and nappy hair, but they differ strikingly in physicality and facial features.

    This applies to Bushmen and Pgymies too.

    My guess is Igbos in the West tend be better quality than Chinese in the West.

    Only relatively successful Igbos could prolly afford to move to the West whereas lots of second-rate Chinesefind their way to the West.

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    • Replies: @SFG
    There's apparently more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it--the Khoi and San are apparently more distant from Bantu groups than the other groups of humanity are from each other.

    Race is a social construct in that where we draw the lines and call something a 'race' is our choice. It's not a social construct in that different populations really do have different genetic distances and characterizations. You can call Swedes and Danes different races or different members of the same race, but they both have more in common with each other than they do with an Italian, and the Swede, Dane, and Italian all have more in common with each other than they do with someone from Zimbabwe.

    That said, when it comes to behavior you can have convergent evolution--Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant, and are happy to marry each other at Harvard and raise brainy kids.
  9. Chanda Chisala’s data points do not corroborate one another and in fact conflicts heavily. More damningly, he didn’t even bother to even convincingly fake some of the so-called “data”. For example Figure 6 has the Luganda’s passing at 75% in 2009, only to drop to 33% in 2010 and then rise back to 83% in 2011. Or the laughable 100% Igbo pass rate in 2009. Or the 0% for the Lingala in 2009 only to dramatically rise to 50% in 2010.

    Table 7 prepared by another black African has purported national averages that do not even match up with the Grauniad.

    Instead of posting questionable snippets of even more questionable data, you might as well go direct to the source.

    http://www.ukcat.ac.uk/App_Media/uploads/pdf/UKCAT%20Annual%20Report%20Final%20Low%20Res.pdf

    Standardized cognitive test administered annually to all medical students (not some dodgy power point put together in 5 minutes).

    Page 13

    UK White mean – 2737.96 with a standard deviation of 268.15
    UK Black mean – 2430.79

    Slightly more than a full standard deviation in cognitive means with a sufficiently representative national sample size.

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    • Replies: @anon

    Standardized cognitive test administered annually to all medical students
     
    That's what you have to do with UK stats - find a piece important enough to not be faked.
  10. Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    “So what do I believe? that all blacks are stupid, or that this ONE SMALL GROUP of blacks isn’t stupid?”

    “Which argument makes white people seem smarter?!?!?!” “Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh…”

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    • Replies: @22pp22
    I've never claimed to be the smartest bunny in the warren, but I do know that GCSE's are rubbish and using them as a basis for research is questionable.

    Also, I have long come to the realisation that my own ethnic group is not the smartest and I accept that, but what is the alternative to HBD? An endless search for racism where there isn't any?

    , @22pp22
    And what makes you think you have such a brilliant mind? Look up allopatric speciation. Why doesn't it apply to humans, just to molluscs? Very few HBDers claim whites are the smartest. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest measured IQ's. Please explain to me how they have managed to win so many Nobel Prizes? This is a place where you come to get away from mindless virtue signalling.
    , @syonredux
    Intra-racial variation in accomplishment is the very essence of HBD.Take, say, Western Europe.Is it just an undifferentiated mass? Hardly.Look at the the Iberian Peninsula.Compared to France, Italy, Germany, and Britain, it has not accomplished much in the arts and the sciences.

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.
     
    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    And look at the maps on pages 301-303 of Human Accomplishment.They show the origins of significant figures in the arts and the sciences from 1400 to 1950 in Europe.The Iberian Peninsula contributes very, very little.Compared to Western Europe’s big 4 (Britain, Italy, Germany, France), Iberia is quite third tier.
    , @Stealth
    As long as I've been keeping up with this topic, HBD believers have acknowledged variation within races. The Germans, Danes and Dutch, for instance, are thought to be smarter and more organized than other European nationalities. It is famously recognized by HBD types that Ashkenazi Jews are a step ahead of surrounding populations, and no one denies that highly intelligent people can come from any racial background. So why is this example of the Igbo thought to debunk the idea that intelligence is hereditary?
    , @Bayonet
    Willfully misunderstanding a theory in order to be offended by it is a pretty silly way to argue.
  11. I’m ever wary of large edifices on small foundations. This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (a straightforward, free registration at JStor will yield the whole piece). The lack of more recent references to archaeological studies from these or other sites in the region suggest the state of knowledge hasn’t substantially progressed since the 1960s, but I stand ready to be corrected.

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    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (

    The 9th century dates on the actual site are under debate, but as Peter points out above, metallurgy in the surrounding region has been around since that time, and even before. See Lejja for example. And you mention a 1973 article but there are others much more recent. Craddock 1997 et al (Metal Sources and the Bronzes from Igbo-Ukwu, Nigeria) for example also show regional metal work long in place, and the indigenous origin of the Igbo bronzes. As far as metal work in the general area, it is old news.


    Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples? Did these 18/19h century explorers or traders find any other evidences (forms of governance, architecture, technologies, written languages, domesticated animals, etc.) which distinguished the Igbo from the other natives?

    Obviously the explorers or traders must have found distinguishing characteristics. They mention the wide span of Igbo trading activity for example, and the tight, intense trading networks and to that end that exploited the waterways. Almost every history of the Igbo mentions such things. This tight organization gave them a competitive advantage over other ethnic rivals. The Igbo even combined their trading with religion, something that would be familiar to certain European ethnic groups.
    , @FirstPerson
    The article by Lawal was refuted by a later article by Thurstan Shaw
  12. @Truth
    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    "So what do I believe? that all blacks are stupid, or that this ONE SMALL GROUP of blacks isn't stupid?"

    "Which argument makes white people seem smarter?!?!?!" "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."

    I’ve never claimed to be the smartest bunny in the warren, but I do know that GCSE’s are rubbish and using them as a basis for research is questionable.

    Also, I have long come to the realisation that my own ethnic group is not the smartest and I accept that, but what is the alternative to HBD? An endless search for racism where there isn’t any?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    My friend you must look at the larger picture: HBD explains that Africans (from Africa) have an IQ of 70 (or maybe now, 80) if "you" are honest about your own studies; most of "you" aren't), whites 100 (it is for Brits the test is normed) "elite" Asians, 105, and Ashkenazi 110-115.

    If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have "human lottodiversity" The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all (or, again if you are an "honest" component of HBD, maybe 5%.)

    Now, here is a tribe, in Africa, as dark as any other tribe, that looks, roughly like any other West African tribe, that seems to invalidate this research. Why? That's not possible, all those Ni-...er...blacks are all built of the same stuff?!?!

    Therefore one of two conclusions must be drawn

    1. Intellect is mutable if the proper conditions are met (and this must not be hard if they were met organically without the intervention of white scientists.)
    2. The numbers are wrong and somehow Igbo intellect is mis-measured.
    3. The entire theory of HBD must be called into question.

    And let's say it's 3; then maybe you have to think (as many Africans and African-Americans do) that if IQ is upwardly mutable, then maybe it is downwardly mutable as well, and there is a conspiracy (!)
  13. @Truth
    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    "So what do I believe? that all blacks are stupid, or that this ONE SMALL GROUP of blacks isn't stupid?"

    "Which argument makes white people seem smarter?!?!?!" "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."

    And what makes you think you have such a brilliant mind? Look up allopatric speciation. Why doesn’t it apply to humans, just to molluscs? Very few HBDers claim whites are the smartest. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest measured IQ’s. Please explain to me how they have managed to win so many Nobel Prizes? This is a place where you come to get away from mindless virtue signalling.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Very few HBDers claim whites are the smartest. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest measured IQ’s.
     
    Ashkenazi Jews.A perfect example of intra-racial variation.They have the highest mean IQs of any Caucasoid population.
  14. Thank you, Dr. Frost. This is what HBD should be about–exploring human biodiversity, not rehashing 19th-century racial ideas. Of course it’s possible for different continents to have different mean IQs, and of course it’s possible for different groups within those continents to have different mean IQs as well!

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  15. @Anon
    I've always argued for dividing black Africans into different races.

    Whites and Asians are both light-skinned and straight hair. But we see them as different races cuz of facial and physical differences.

    Nigerians and Ethiopians/Somalians both have black skin and nappy hair, but they differ strikingly in physicality and facial features.

    This applies to Bushmen and Pgymies too.

    My guess is Igbos in the West tend be better quality than Chinese in the West.

    Only relatively successful Igbos could prolly afford to move to the West whereas lots of second-rate Chinesefind their way to the West.

    There’s apparently more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it–the Khoi and San are apparently more distant from Bantu groups than the other groups of humanity are from each other.

    Race is a social construct in that where we draw the lines and call something a ‘race’ is our choice. It’s not a social construct in that different populations really do have different genetic distances and characterizations. You can call Swedes and Danes different races or different members of the same race, but they both have more in common with each other than they do with an Italian, and the Swede, Dane, and Italian all have more in common with each other than they do with someone from Zimbabwe.

    That said, when it comes to behavior you can have convergent evolution–Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant, and are happy to marry each other at Harvard and raise brainy kids.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant,
     
    On the other hand, they are also quite dissimilar in terms of behavioral metrics.Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics....
    , @Kevin Brook
    SFG wrote, "Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant".

    You'll be surprised. Some of the more easterly Ashkenazim inherited a South Chinese maternal haplogroup called M33c2:

    "The Chinese Lady Who Joined the Ashkenazic People" in Jewish Times Asia, March 2015, page 19
    http://issuu.com/jewishtimesasia/docs/mar2015/19

    Some Ashkenazim show Chinese admixture in Eurogenes's autosomal DNA calculators:

    "East/Northeast Asian Admixture in Ashkenazic Jews"
    http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/aj-east-asian-admixture.html

    Admittedly, only some Ashkenazim have inherited any Chinese DNA or traits, and of those who did it represents a small proportion of their total genetics.

    , @Enrique Cardova
    SFG says:
    There’s apparently more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it–the Khoi and San are apparently more distant from Bantu groups than the other groups of humanity are from each other.

    Indeed. Africa has more diversity within as dental, skin color, cranial, and DNA studies show. This is expected as Africa is where anatomically modern humans originated. Not sure though that Khoi or San are more distant from Bantu than say Swedes.

    .
    Race is a social construct in that where we draw the lines and call something a ‘race’ is our choice. It’s not a social construct in that different populations really do have different genetic distances and characterizations.

    But the process and methods of defining genetic distances and characterizations is itself influenced by social constructs. Sampling for example can be and has been often manipulated to lend a scientific gloss to desired social constructs. Hence in Africa, some DNA studies exclude "the wrong type" of African to create a "Caucasoid" social construct. Others downplay the diversity of Africans and define a narrow, stereotyped "true Negro" - against which everything else can be split off and grouped into another "racial" category. One study for example use one individual from Uganda to stand in as "representative" of all sub-Saharan Africans, but used a broad dataset for Europeans.

    The same thing happens with cranio-skeletal studies. Scholars note how time after time for example, specimens with what seem to be "negro affinities" in the Nile Valley have been re-classified as "Mediterranean" or something else, thus making them conveniently vanish from the published reports. (Kittles and Keita 1997) Likewise the widely used CRANID database is heavily weighted with samples from cemeteries in the far north of Egypt near the Mediterranean as "representative" of Egyptians, but downplays samples from the historic tropical south, from whence the Dynasties sprang (Kemp 2005).

    Some DNA studies do not let the data speak for themselves, but define the racial constructs IN ADVANCE, then plug data into the pre-set pigeonholes, again presenting seeming scientific objectivity but in reality, manipulating the outcomes to fit whatever agenda is desired at the moment. Such problems are specifically mentioned in the current scientific literature, (Armelagos 2001) and are current problems, not way back in the 19th century. Its not simply anonymous bloggers somewhere pointing them out.
  16. Sabino and Hall (1999) describe them as being “competitive, individualistic, status-conscious, antiauthoritarian, pragmatic, and practical—a people with a strongly developed commercial sense.” In colonial-era literature, they were often called “the Jews of West Africa” (see note).

    Which note? Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples? Did these 18/19h century explorers or traders find any other evidences (forms of governance, architecture, technologies, written languages, domesticated animals, etc.) which distinguished the Igbo from the other natives?

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  17. @22pp22
    Don't trust GCSE's. O-levels were entirely exam based and hard to falsify. GCSE's are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife. A-levels and university finals exams are a better proxy.

    GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife.

    Well that explains the large shared environment component found in Plomin’s large twin study of it.

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  18. Many things have been going on in the UK test system for about a decade now. Whenever UK data are mentioned to prove something either by some bloggers or academics, one needs to be very careful of their sources and sampling methodologies as the devil is in the detail. Panda can recall that several years ago some UK data also pointed out that the Somalis immigrants scored the the highest in UK schools, followed by Bangladeshies and Indians etc South Asians.

    James Thompson had some similar entries analising the data. Go check the comments there.

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  19. @Wizard of Oz
    In Israel it is well known that inbreeding amongst ultra Orthodox Jews results in high rates of disability. By contrast the Ethiopian Jews have a traditional rule that consanguinity within about eight generations of cousinage is unacceptable. As it doesn't seem to have done much to make them cognitively competitive I proffer the following speculation, namely that it often means scraping the bottle of the barrel to find a spouse????

    Ethiopian Jews are genetically ethiopian, so their cognitive and behavioural performance is what you would expect of ethiopians.

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    • Replies: @James ben Goy
    The average Ethiopian is far smarter than the average westerner, based on my personal observation. There are no welfare programs in Ethiopia, so they have to hustle to survive, which sharpens the intellect. They do better in western societies where they have open access to education and job or entreprenurial opportunities. That is not the situation in Israel, regrettably
    , @Wizard of Oz
    No dispute about your point that Ethiopian Jews are what you would expect of ethnic Ethiopians (though that would be no certainty if one religious group had, for example an insistence on literacy or a cultural trait (e.g. wrt usury) that encourage trade and finance. However, would you care to address my speculation that having to look too far to find mates could mean having to marry the very stupid or not marry at all?
  20. @22pp22
    And what makes you think you have such a brilliant mind? Look up allopatric speciation. Why doesn't it apply to humans, just to molluscs? Very few HBDers claim whites are the smartest. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest measured IQ's. Please explain to me how they have managed to win so many Nobel Prizes? This is a place where you come to get away from mindless virtue signalling.

    Very few HBDers claim whites are the smartest. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest measured IQ’s.

    Ashkenazi Jews.A perfect example of intra-racial variation.They have the highest mean IQs of any Caucasoid population.

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  21. I remember reading comments on a Nigerian forum about which tribe has the most attractive men, and somebody said igbo men can’t be the most attractive because they have big heads compared to the other tribes.

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  22. @SFG
    There's apparently more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it--the Khoi and San are apparently more distant from Bantu groups than the other groups of humanity are from each other.

    Race is a social construct in that where we draw the lines and call something a 'race' is our choice. It's not a social construct in that different populations really do have different genetic distances and characterizations. You can call Swedes and Danes different races or different members of the same race, but they both have more in common with each other than they do with an Italian, and the Swede, Dane, and Italian all have more in common with each other than they do with someone from Zimbabwe.

    That said, when it comes to behavior you can have convergent evolution--Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant, and are happy to marry each other at Harvard and raise brainy kids.

    Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant,

    On the other hand, they are also quite dissimilar in terms of behavioral metrics.Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    "Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics…."

    Too busy being flip flip comics. Look at Jackie Chan.
  23. Here are typical comments when people describe igbo

    from this thread.

    http://www.nairaland.com/29080/igbo-men-most-handsome-men

    “Igbo Men my assfine for where with those big ass head LMAO”

    “I will take a big head anyday than those massive eleven eleven tribal marks”

    “igbo guys can be cute,but their big head na wa.one thing i notice about igbo people, they like to claim every title,but when you want to talk about the onitsha drug dealing ,and 419 stuffs, they will be doing the blame game.@ topic every tribe have their moment.”

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  24. The different tribes of Nigeria.

    from this thread.
    Can You Tell A Nigerian By Their Face?

    http://www.nairaland.com/142474/tell-nigerian-face/1

    a comment.

    “from what i’ve seen

    Igbo- Big heads, dominate facial features, often lighter skinned then average west african, over dressed or well dressed, good looking, slim, mainly western attire in and out of nigeria, skin often has a bunch of different colors on different spots.

    yoruba- dark, round eyes large eyes, ugly lol

    hausa- tall dark, toned down facial features (smaller noses smaller eyes smaller lips), skin is usually 1 soild color all over, either really good looking are supremely ugly

    ogoni- SHORT, stalky, like shrunken igbo, HUGE heads, epically pushed back hair lines,

    that’s all i know.”

    So the traits that people often describe igbos by, is their big heads.

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    • Replies: @Rodolfo
    The only study I've ever read about it disagrees with your view. Igbos have smaller cranial capacity that Northwest tribes.
    See: http://docsdrive.com/pdfs/ansinet/jas/0000/22741-22741.pdf
  25. @Truth
    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    "So what do I believe? that all blacks are stupid, or that this ONE SMALL GROUP of blacks isn't stupid?"

    "Which argument makes white people seem smarter?!?!?!" "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."

    Intra-racial variation in accomplishment is the very essence of HBD.Take, say, Western Europe.Is it just an undifferentiated mass? Hardly.Look at the the Iberian Peninsula.Compared to France, Italy, Germany, and Britain, it has not accomplished much in the arts and the sciences.

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.

    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    And look at the maps on pages 301-303 of Human Accomplishment.They show the origins of significant figures in the arts and the sciences from 1400 to 1950 in Europe.The Iberian Peninsula contributes very, very little.Compared to Western Europe’s big 4 (Britain, Italy, Germany, France), Iberia is quite third tier.

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    • Replies: @Lot

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.
     
    I would say imposing your languages and religion on all of South and Central America, plus Mexico, is a pretty golden era.

    Like the USA with Vietnam and Iraq, Spain wasted the excess wealth in earned during its peak years with really stupid foreign wars, for example trying to keep modern Belgium and Netherlands part of the Spanish Kingdom was a very costly and bloody ordeal. Not just the lost lives, but the expensive logistics of getting men, supplies, and information from Madrid to Holland. There was also the whole plan to conquer England.
  26. Many things have been going on in the UK test system for about a decade now.

    One might say ever since Tony Blair proclaimed that his government’s priorities were going to be ‘education, education, education,’ and he wanted over 50% of young people to go onto higher education.

    How have GCSE pass rates changed over the exams’ 25 year history?

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/sep/17/gcse-exams-replaced-ebacc-history-pass-rates

    When over 90% pass the exams, and 70% get a higher grade (A-C), it should be obvious that their utility in intelligence stratification is limited.

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  27. Another way to study the stereotypes about African tribes is to types on the google the name of the tribe and see the auto complete.

    for instance, for Zulus.

    If I write Zulus are: the google auto complete gives.
    Zulus are stupid
    Zulus are violent
    Zulus are lazy

    for xhosas
    xhosas are liers
    xhosas are arrogant
    xhosas are clever

    for tutsis
    Tutsis are beautiful

    for Hutus
    Hutus are evil

    for igbos

    igbos are hebrews
    igbos are Israelites
    igbos are the richest in nigeria
    igbos are light skin
    igbos are mixed
    igbos are most achievers in africa
    igbos are cannibals
    igbos are hated

    for yorubas
    yorubas are the problem with nigeria
    yorubas are traitors
    yorubas are dirty
    yorubas are cowards
    yorubas are ugly
    yorubas are trabalistic
    yorubas are Israelites
    yorubas are ungrateful

    somalis
    Somalis are stupid
    Somalis are ugly
    somals are animals
    Somalis are arabs

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  28. @22pp22
    I've never claimed to be the smartest bunny in the warren, but I do know that GCSE's are rubbish and using them as a basis for research is questionable.

    Also, I have long come to the realisation that my own ethnic group is not the smartest and I accept that, but what is the alternative to HBD? An endless search for racism where there isn't any?

    My friend you must look at the larger picture: HBD explains that Africans (from Africa) have an IQ of 70 (or maybe now, 80) if “you” are honest about your own studies; most of “you” aren’t), whites 100 (it is for Brits the test is normed) “elite” Asians, 105, and Ashkenazi 110-115.

    If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have “human lottodiversity” The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all (or, again if you are an “honest” component of HBD, maybe 5%.)

    Now, here is a tribe, in Africa, as dark as any other tribe, that looks, roughly like any other West African tribe, that seems to invalidate this research. Why? That’s not possible, all those Ni-…er…blacks are all built of the same stuff?!?!

    Therefore one of two conclusions must be drawn

    1. Intellect is mutable if the proper conditions are met (and this must not be hard if they were met organically without the intervention of white scientists.)
    2. The numbers are wrong and somehow Igbo intellect is mis-measured.
    3. The entire theory of HBD must be called into question.

    And let’s say it’s 3; then maybe you have to think (as many Africans and African-Americans do) that if IQ is upwardly mutable, then maybe it is downwardly mutable as well, and there is a conspiracy (!)

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all
     
    Sure they can.Here's a nice article by Cochran on the Breeders' Equation:

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/the-breeders-equation/


    Races are not Platonic essences.They are plastic, mutable.
    , @anon

    The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all...
     
    That's not the entire point - although admittedly it is for some.

    The point is these things are immutable in one generation. They are entirely mutable over multiple generations and clearly have been.
    , @22pp22
    Of course, they're downwardly mutable, as well. If the HBD theory must be called into question, then so be it, but there is an awful lot of data to back it up and very little to discredit it. This is one of the best attempts I've seen so far, but it should be subject to the same process of verification as everything else. Really this should be done in a proper academic setting, but we live in a hysterical world of virtue signallers screamng waycist. Look what happened to Jason Richwine.
  29. @Truth
    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    "So what do I believe? that all blacks are stupid, or that this ONE SMALL GROUP of blacks isn't stupid?"

    "Which argument makes white people seem smarter?!?!?!" "Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."

    As long as I’ve been keeping up with this topic, HBD believers have acknowledged variation within races. The Germans, Danes and Dutch, for instance, are thought to be smarter and more organized than other European nationalities. It is famously recognized by HBD types that Ashkenazi Jews are a step ahead of surrounding populations, and no one denies that highly intelligent people can come from any racial background. So why is this example of the Igbo thought to debunk the idea that intelligence is hereditary?

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  30. They have the highest mean IQs of any Caucasoid population.

    I think Episcopalians have them whipped.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    They have the highest mean IQs of any Caucasoid population.

    I think Episcopalians have them whipped.
     
    The two groups do overlap on a lot of metrics:


    http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2008/12/inductivist-reaffirms-utility-of-gss.html

    http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/02/21/pentecostals-are-stupid-unitar/
    , @Hibernian
    It has been said that Jews earn like Episcopalians and vote like Puerto Ricans. I think since at least 2008 it could be said that Liberal Protestants including Episcopalians vote like Jews and/or Puerto Ricans.
  31. Don’t trust GCSE’s. O-levels were entirely exam based and hard to falsify. GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife.

    Like IQ tests, these are all proxies for the genetic component of intelligence. We forget that IQ is only partly genetic, perhaps 50 to 80% depending on the age group or the uniformity of the testing. The GCSE has a smaller genetic component, and in some ways a different genetic component. It largely measures diligence and willingness to do your assignments on time.

    But there clearly is a pattern, despite the noise in the data.

    me, neither! i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences

    Human biodiversity is ubiquitous. It’s not just that we see statistical differences in mental traits between relatively small populations (which sometimes have no sense of having separate ethnic identities). We also see differences over time within the same population. I agree with Gregory Clark that the English of the 19th century had become genetically different through a process of selection over the previous eight centuries. Evolution can proceed quite fast if the selection pressure is strong enough.

    Chanda Chisala’s data points do not corroborate one another and in fact conflicts heavily. More damningly, he didn’t even bother to even convincingly fake some of the so-called “data”. For example Figure 6 has the Luganda’s passing at 75% in 2009, only to drop to 33% in 2010 and then rise back to 83% in 2011. Or the laughable 100% Igbo pass rate in 2009. Or the 0% for the Lingala in 2009 only to dramatically rise to 50% in 2010.

    I see that as evidence that he didn’t fake his data. I would expect to see a lot of noise in this kind of evidence because the genetic component is probably smaller than the environmental component. I’ve seen fake data, and it generally looks too “correct.”

    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    A lot of people see this as a kind of hockey game (or soccer game?) where you’re supposed to cheer for the home team.

    This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (a straightforward, free registration at JStor will yield the whole piece). The lack of more recent references to archaeological studies from these or other sites in the region suggest the state of knowledge hasn’t substantially progressed since the 1960s, but I stand ready to be corrected.

    There were two other studies from the 1980s (with three new radiocarbon dates) which confirmed the 9th century estimate. In any case, the Igbo-Ukwu finds are clearly pre-contact. The later dates from the 14th century simply confirm that the site was continuously occupied over a long time.

    For a review of the literature, go to:

    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christopher_Decorse/publication/275656506_Beads_as_Chronological_Indicators_in_West_African_Archaeology/links/554397f10cf234bdb21bd2cb.pdf

    Which note? Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples?

    The note is at the end of my article. Examples are numerous:

    “All over Nigeria, Ibos filled urban jobs at every level far out of proportion to their numbers, as laborers and domestic servants, as bureaucrats, corporate managers, and technicians. Two-thirds of the senior jobs in the Nigerian Railway Corporation were held by Ibos. Three-quarters of Nigeria’s diplomats came from the Eastern Region. So did almost half of the 4,500 students graduating from Nigerian universities in 1966. The Ibos became known as the “Jews of Africa,” despised-and envied-for their achievements and acquisitiveness. Inevitably, ethnic tensions mounted. Competition for political offices and job promotions routinely degenerated into tribal rivalry. Nigeria was smoldering.”

    http://archive.wilsonquarterly.com/sites/default/files/articles/WQ_VOL4_W_1980_Article_01_2.pdf

    Even Henry Kissinger made this comparison back in the 1960s:

    “The Ibos are the wandering Jews of West Africa — gifted, aggressive, Westernized; at best envied and resented, but mostly despised by the mass of their neighbors in the Federation.”

    He also attributed the Nigerian civil war to the Igbo coup d’état the year before:

    “The civil war is rooted in the failure of the first generation of British-tutored politicians to make something of independence and unity. While London and Washington poured in money and high expectations, corruption grew apace and decisions were drained of content by the tribal bickering that lay behind the facade of national parties. In one sense the first coup in 1966 was a classic effort by young officers to set things right. But they were also eastern Ibos who murdered with ritual flair a northern Hausa Prime Minister along with the Premiers of the Northern and Western States.”

    http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e5/55258.htm

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    • Replies: @Realist
    " I would expect to see a lot of noise in this kind of evidence because the genetic component is probably smaller than the environmental component."

    There it is....the liberal position on IQ. Racial differences in IQ don't exist....more head start.
    , @Duke of Qin
    Fake data created by people who at least semi-know what they are doing looks too neat. Fake data by completely clueless people look like this. You do not get a 0% GCSE pass rate in one year and a 50% the next because of statistical noise. It is either because your sample size is 2 people or you are just making figures up out of thin air.

    Furthermore as others have noted, the GCSE has been heavily diluted to the point where its predictive usefulness has been obliterated. The UK CAT summary I linked to also has a new Situational Judgement Test (SJT) component that was added post 2012 in addition to the standard cognitive test. The SJT (aka the Social Justice Test) component of any test is in it's primary purpose designed to show reduced levels disparate impact. This feature not bug is intended to to obfuscate by pretending subjective surveys (nice guy, team player) are objective data.

    By the way, here is a hilarious take on the UK CAT SJT.

    http://captiongenerator.com/2720/SJT-Hitler-2

    , @The most deplorable one

    It largely measures diligence and willingness to do your assignments on time.
     
    If the experiences of my teacher friend (and the papers I have seen where cheating are evident) in the CA School system, then that is not quite true.

    For examples, students get their tutors to complete their homework assignments, or copy other kids work or whatever is needed to turn the work in.
  32. @Truth
    My friend you must look at the larger picture: HBD explains that Africans (from Africa) have an IQ of 70 (or maybe now, 80) if "you" are honest about your own studies; most of "you" aren't), whites 100 (it is for Brits the test is normed) "elite" Asians, 105, and Ashkenazi 110-115.

    If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have "human lottodiversity" The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all (or, again if you are an "honest" component of HBD, maybe 5%.)

    Now, here is a tribe, in Africa, as dark as any other tribe, that looks, roughly like any other West African tribe, that seems to invalidate this research. Why? That's not possible, all those Ni-...er...blacks are all built of the same stuff?!?!

    Therefore one of two conclusions must be drawn

    1. Intellect is mutable if the proper conditions are met (and this must not be hard if they were met organically without the intervention of white scientists.)
    2. The numbers are wrong and somehow Igbo intellect is mis-measured.
    3. The entire theory of HBD must be called into question.

    And let's say it's 3; then maybe you have to think (as many Africans and African-Americans do) that if IQ is upwardly mutable, then maybe it is downwardly mutable as well, and there is a conspiracy (!)

    The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all

    Sure they can.Here’s a nice article by Cochran on the Breeders’ Equation:

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/the-breeders-equation/

    Races are not Platonic essences.They are plastic, mutable.

    Read More
  33. @Peter Frost
    Don’t trust GCSE’s. O-levels were entirely exam based and hard to falsify. GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife.

    Like IQ tests, these are all proxies for the genetic component of intelligence. We forget that IQ is only partly genetic, perhaps 50 to 80% depending on the age group or the uniformity of the testing. The GCSE has a smaller genetic component, and in some ways a different genetic component. It largely measures diligence and willingness to do your assignments on time.

    But there clearly is a pattern, despite the noise in the data.

    me, neither! i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences

    Human biodiversity is ubiquitous. It's not just that we see statistical differences in mental traits between relatively small populations (which sometimes have no sense of having separate ethnic identities). We also see differences over time within the same population. I agree with Gregory Clark that the English of the 19th century had become genetically different through a process of selection over the previous eight centuries. Evolution can proceed quite fast if the selection pressure is strong enough.

    Chanda Chisala’s data points do not corroborate one another and in fact conflicts heavily. More damningly, he didn’t even bother to even convincingly fake some of the so-called “data”. For example Figure 6 has the Luganda’s passing at 75% in 2009, only to drop to 33% in 2010 and then rise back to 83% in 2011. Or the laughable 100% Igbo pass rate in 2009. Or the 0% for the Lingala in 2009 only to dramatically rise to 50% in 2010.

    I see that as evidence that he didn't fake his data. I would expect to see a lot of noise in this kind of evidence because the genetic component is probably smaller than the environmental component. I've seen fake data, and it generally looks too "correct."

    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    A lot of people see this as a kind of hockey game (or soccer game?) where you're supposed to cheer for the home team.

    This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (a straightforward, free registration at JStor will yield the whole piece). The lack of more recent references to archaeological studies from these or other sites in the region suggest the state of knowledge hasn’t substantially progressed since the 1960s, but I stand ready to be corrected.

    There were two other studies from the 1980s (with three new radiocarbon dates) which confirmed the 9th century estimate. In any case, the Igbo-Ukwu finds are clearly pre-contact. The later dates from the 14th century simply confirm that the site was continuously occupied over a long time.

    For a review of the literature, go to:

    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christopher_Decorse/publication/275656506_Beads_as_Chronological_Indicators_in_West_African_Archaeology/links/554397f10cf234bdb21bd2cb.pdf

    Which note? Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples?

    The note is at the end of my article. Examples are numerous:

    "All over Nigeria, Ibos filled urban jobs at every level far out of proportion to their numbers, as laborers and domestic servants, as bureaucrats, corporate managers, and technicians. Two-thirds of the senior jobs in the Nigerian Railway Corporation were held by Ibos. Three-quarters of Nigeria's diplomats came from the Eastern Region. So did almost half of the 4,500 students graduating from Nigerian universities in 1966. The Ibos became known as the "Jews of Africa," despised-and envied-for their achievements and acquisitiveness. Inevitably, ethnic tensions mounted. Competition for political offices and job promotions routinely degenerated into tribal rivalry. Nigeria was smoldering."

    http://archive.wilsonquarterly.com/sites/default/files/articles/WQ_VOL4_W_1980_Article_01_2.pdf

    Even Henry Kissinger made this comparison back in the 1960s:

    "The Ibos are the wandering Jews of West Africa -- gifted, aggressive, Westernized; at best envied and resented, but mostly despised by the mass of their neighbors in the Federation."

    He also attributed the Nigerian civil war to the Igbo coup d'état the year before:

    "The civil war is rooted in the failure of the first generation of British-tutored politicians to make something of independence and unity. While London and Washington poured in money and high expectations, corruption grew apace and decisions were drained of content by the tribal bickering that lay behind the facade of national parties. In one sense the first coup in 1966 was a classic effort by young officers to set things right. But they were also eastern Ibos who murdered with ritual flair a northern Hausa Prime Minister along with the Premiers of the Northern and Western States."

    http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e5/55258.htm

    ” I would expect to see a lot of noise in this kind of evidence because the genetic component is probably smaller than the environmental component.”

    There it is….the liberal position on IQ. Racial differences in IQ don’t exist….more head start.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Is that some kind of off the cuff attempt at satire? You don't intend to say, do you, that any really says that environment sometimes being a bigger factor than genes means that there are no "racial" differences in mental characteristics?
  34. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @syonredux

    Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant,
     
    On the other hand, they are also quite dissimilar in terms of behavioral metrics.Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics....

    “Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics….”

    Too busy being flip flip comics. Look at Jackie Chan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @syonredux

    “Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics….”

    Too busy being flip flip comics. Look at Jackie Chan.
     
    Lots of his stuff was lifted from Anglo Silent Film comics: Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, Harold Lloyd
  35. @Pseudonymic Handle
    Ethiopian Jews are genetically ethiopian, so their cognitive and behavioural performance is what you would expect of ethiopians.

    The average Ethiopian is far smarter than the average westerner, based on my personal observation. There are no welfare programs in Ethiopia, so they have to hustle to survive, which sharpens the intellect. They do better in western societies where they have open access to education and job or entreprenurial opportunities. That is not the situation in Israel, regrettably

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vendetta
    Ethiopia has a very long and comparatively glorious history as an empire on a continent predominated by tribal peoples. They defeated the Italians the first time around because they were organized enough to field a 100,000 man army (compare that to the few thousands the Zulu fought with) and because they had adopted firearms en masse.

    Calling Italy vs Ethiopia round two "tanks against spears" is as misleading as calling Germany vs Poland "tanks against lances." The peasant levies fought with spears, but the royal army was, as it was at Adowa, an army of riflemen. The problem was that it was an army of riflemen who fought in conventional warfare against an army with machine guns, motorized columns, artillery, and air support. If you want to see spears against machine guns, look at 20,000 Sudanese Mahdists getting themselves slaughtered by the British at Omdurman instead.

    I would be willing to bet the Ethiopians, or the Amhara at least, are on the high end of the continent cognitively; I think the present day impoverishment of the country has much more to do with geopolitical factors than a lack of cognitive capability. The country has been all but landlocked for more than a century, it's overpopulated, the climate has been unkind to it, and it's a multi-ethnic country.

    In fact, you won't find any other place in the world today that more closely resembles the Austro-Hungarian Empire in terms of ethnic divisions than Ethiopia. The Amhara, the ancient Ethiopians, are one among several large tribes that also include the Oromo, the Tigray, and the Somalis. The country's been bogged down over the last half century with a decades-long Eritrean insurgency, drought-induced famine, and disastrous misrule under Mengistu's communist Derg.
  36. @Anon
    "Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics…."

    Too busy being flip flip comics. Look at Jackie Chan.

    “Cf, for example, the dearth of Chinese stand-up comics….”

    Too busy being flip flip comics. Look at Jackie Chan.

    Lots of his stuff was lifted from Anglo Silent Film comics: Buster Keaton, Charlie Chaplin, Harold Lloyd

    Read More
  37. @Svigor

    They have the highest mean IQs of any Caucasoid population.
     
    I think Episcopalians have them whipped.

    They have the highest mean IQs of any Caucasoid population.

    I think Episcopalians have them whipped.

    The two groups do overlap on a lot of metrics:

    http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2008/12/inductivist-reaffirms-utility-of-gss.html

    http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2008/02/21/pentecostals-are-stupid-unitar/

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  38. @Peter Frost
    Don’t trust GCSE’s. O-levels were entirely exam based and hard to falsify. GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife.

    Like IQ tests, these are all proxies for the genetic component of intelligence. We forget that IQ is only partly genetic, perhaps 50 to 80% depending on the age group or the uniformity of the testing. The GCSE has a smaller genetic component, and in some ways a different genetic component. It largely measures diligence and willingness to do your assignments on time.

    But there clearly is a pattern, despite the noise in the data.

    me, neither! i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences

    Human biodiversity is ubiquitous. It's not just that we see statistical differences in mental traits between relatively small populations (which sometimes have no sense of having separate ethnic identities). We also see differences over time within the same population. I agree with Gregory Clark that the English of the 19th century had become genetically different through a process of selection over the previous eight centuries. Evolution can proceed quite fast if the selection pressure is strong enough.

    Chanda Chisala’s data points do not corroborate one another and in fact conflicts heavily. More damningly, he didn’t even bother to even convincingly fake some of the so-called “data”. For example Figure 6 has the Luganda’s passing at 75% in 2009, only to drop to 33% in 2010 and then rise back to 83% in 2011. Or the laughable 100% Igbo pass rate in 2009. Or the 0% for the Lingala in 2009 only to dramatically rise to 50% in 2010.

    I see that as evidence that he didn't fake his data. I would expect to see a lot of noise in this kind of evidence because the genetic component is probably smaller than the environmental component. I've seen fake data, and it generally looks too "correct."

    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    A lot of people see this as a kind of hockey game (or soccer game?) where you're supposed to cheer for the home team.

    This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (a straightforward, free registration at JStor will yield the whole piece). The lack of more recent references to archaeological studies from these or other sites in the region suggest the state of knowledge hasn’t substantially progressed since the 1960s, but I stand ready to be corrected.

    There were two other studies from the 1980s (with three new radiocarbon dates) which confirmed the 9th century estimate. In any case, the Igbo-Ukwu finds are clearly pre-contact. The later dates from the 14th century simply confirm that the site was continuously occupied over a long time.

    For a review of the literature, go to:

    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christopher_Decorse/publication/275656506_Beads_as_Chronological_Indicators_in_West_African_Archaeology/links/554397f10cf234bdb21bd2cb.pdf

    Which note? Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples?

    The note is at the end of my article. Examples are numerous:

    "All over Nigeria, Ibos filled urban jobs at every level far out of proportion to their numbers, as laborers and domestic servants, as bureaucrats, corporate managers, and technicians. Two-thirds of the senior jobs in the Nigerian Railway Corporation were held by Ibos. Three-quarters of Nigeria's diplomats came from the Eastern Region. So did almost half of the 4,500 students graduating from Nigerian universities in 1966. The Ibos became known as the "Jews of Africa," despised-and envied-for their achievements and acquisitiveness. Inevitably, ethnic tensions mounted. Competition for political offices and job promotions routinely degenerated into tribal rivalry. Nigeria was smoldering."

    http://archive.wilsonquarterly.com/sites/default/files/articles/WQ_VOL4_W_1980_Article_01_2.pdf

    Even Henry Kissinger made this comparison back in the 1960s:

    "The Ibos are the wandering Jews of West Africa -- gifted, aggressive, Westernized; at best envied and resented, but mostly despised by the mass of their neighbors in the Federation."

    He also attributed the Nigerian civil war to the Igbo coup d'état the year before:

    "The civil war is rooted in the failure of the first generation of British-tutored politicians to make something of independence and unity. While London and Washington poured in money and high expectations, corruption grew apace and decisions were drained of content by the tribal bickering that lay behind the facade of national parties. In one sense the first coup in 1966 was a classic effort by young officers to set things right. But they were also eastern Ibos who murdered with ritual flair a northern Hausa Prime Minister along with the Premiers of the Northern and Western States."

    http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e5/55258.htm

    Fake data created by people who at least semi-know what they are doing looks too neat. Fake data by completely clueless people look like this. You do not get a 0% GCSE pass rate in one year and a 50% the next because of statistical noise. It is either because your sample size is 2 people or you are just making figures up out of thin air.

    Furthermore as others have noted, the GCSE has been heavily diluted to the point where its predictive usefulness has been obliterated. The UK CAT summary I linked to also has a new Situational Judgement Test (SJT) component that was added post 2012 in addition to the standard cognitive test. The SJT (aka the Social Justice Test) component of any test is in it’s primary purpose designed to show reduced levels disparate impact. This feature not bug is intended to to obfuscate by pretending subjective surveys (nice guy, team player) are objective data.

    By the way, here is a hilarious take on the UK CAT SJT.

    http://captiongenerator.com/2720/SJT-Hitler-2

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Wouldn't the surprisingly different results from a very small sample size one year constitute "statistical noise" in the relevant sense or at least support the same point?
  39. Thank you Peter Frost. We don’t need any more ideologues believing in simple answers to complex questions by the mean spirited racists or the equally ridiculous “anti-hereditarians”.

    I am grateful that there are some bloggers that address these sensitive issues with a scholarly minded approach.

    Read More
  40. I had left a similar comment on the Chisala article, but thought it might be useful to again note the recent post by Razib Khan which discussed genetic evidence of Nigerians having some DNA from Eurasian pastoralists that interbred with the local population thousands of years ago.

    Igbo often have skin tones and eye colors that are significantly lighter than the typical West African (for example see Andre Iguodala).

    It would seem that if genetic analysis shows that if the Igbo indeed do have more Eurasian DNA than other West Africans, their high achievement will end up supporting the hereditarian view rather than weakening it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bbc
    The tribes with Eurasian ancestry are the northern Muslims groups currently terrorizing Nigeria with boko haram, like Fulani, kanuri, shuwa Arabs and Tuaregs.

    I've not seen any study showing igboz to be mixed with non Africans.

    , @Enrique Cardova
    Igbo often have skin tones and eye colors that are significantly lighter than the typical West African (for example see Andre Iguodala).

    This is nothing special. Africans as a whole have higher skin color diversity than other peoples, and don't need any "Eurasian" admixture to explain why. That diversity is built-in. As scholars note:

    "Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. T
    his study examines regional differences in within-population
    diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin
    reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight
    geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe,
    West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the
    New World. Regional differences in local within-population
    diversity were examined using two measures of variability:
    the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation.
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits."

    --Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.
    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.
  41. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Duke of Qin
    Chanda Chisala's data points do not corroborate one another and in fact conflicts heavily. More damningly, he didn't even bother to even convincingly fake some of the so-called "data". For example Figure 6 has the Luganda's passing at 75% in 2009, only to drop to 33% in 2010 and then rise back to 83% in 2011. Or the laughable 100% Igbo pass rate in 2009. Or the 0% for the Lingala in 2009 only to dramatically rise to 50% in 2010.

    Table 7 prepared by another black African has purported national averages that do not even match up with the Grauniad.

    Instead of posting questionable snippets of even more questionable data, you might as well go direct to the source.

    http://www.ukcat.ac.uk/App_Media/uploads/pdf/UKCAT%20Annual%20Report%20Final%20Low%20Res.pdf

    Standardized cognitive test administered annually to all medical students (not some dodgy power point put together in 5 minutes).

    Page 13

    UK White mean - 2737.96 with a standard deviation of 268.15
    UK Black mean - 2430.79

    Slightly more than a full standard deviation in cognitive means with a sufficiently representative national sample size.

    Standardized cognitive test administered annually to all medical students

    That’s what you have to do with UK stats – find a piece important enough to not be faked.

    Read More
  42. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Truth
    My friend you must look at the larger picture: HBD explains that Africans (from Africa) have an IQ of 70 (or maybe now, 80) if "you" are honest about your own studies; most of "you" aren't), whites 100 (it is for Brits the test is normed) "elite" Asians, 105, and Ashkenazi 110-115.

    If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have "human lottodiversity" The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all (or, again if you are an "honest" component of HBD, maybe 5%.)

    Now, here is a tribe, in Africa, as dark as any other tribe, that looks, roughly like any other West African tribe, that seems to invalidate this research. Why? That's not possible, all those Ni-...er...blacks are all built of the same stuff?!?!

    Therefore one of two conclusions must be drawn

    1. Intellect is mutable if the proper conditions are met (and this must not be hard if they were met organically without the intervention of white scientists.)
    2. The numbers are wrong and somehow Igbo intellect is mis-measured.
    3. The entire theory of HBD must be called into question.

    And let's say it's 3; then maybe you have to think (as many Africans and African-Americans do) that if IQ is upwardly mutable, then maybe it is downwardly mutable as well, and there is a conspiracy (!)

    The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all…

    That’s not the entire point – although admittedly it is for some.

    The point is these things are immutable in one generation. They are entirely mutable over multiple generations and clearly have been.

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  43. Nigerians having some DNA from Eurasian pastoralists that interbred with the local population thousands of years ago.

    “Wow, I could have never seen this one coming…”

    Sincerely;

    No one, EVER!

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  44. Real pity everyone sided with Nigeria back against Biafra. Igbo industriousness and intelligence plus oil wealth would almost surely have made it the most prosperous black state in Africa. It’s important to read beyond compilations of exam scores as well to get an understanding of them. There’s some good accounts of the Biafran War out there about the besieged Igbos rigging up makeshift generators and refineries out in the jungle once the cities had been bombed. They are resourceful people who make things happen.

    I’d also be skeptical of your “weak community identity” theory. They do seem to be a people of large extended clan families, and the sheer degree of sacrifice they were willing to put themselves through in the Biafran war seem to indicate otherwise.

    I’m almost reminded of the Japanese, actually, in how they fought a hopeless war to the bitter end and then just put it behind them and moved on after they lost so grievously. The atrocities the Nigerians carried out against the Igbos are orders of magnitude worse than those that say, the Israelis and Palestinians ever inflicted on one another. Yet there’s been no Igbo insurgency, no die-hard hatred of the rest of Nigeria, and trying to secede again remains a fringe idea among them. Even Ojukwu, the leader of the rebellion, returned from exile to Nigerian politics a couple decades later. The lack of bitterness is remarkable. If a group of people anywhere in the 20th century deserved their independence, it was the Igbo.

    One final question: every Boko Haram explanation I’ve seen insists upon the dispossession of Nigerian Muslims from politics and the economy as a reason for the movement’s appeal. But the Igbos too are dispossessed and excluded, so who the Hell actually is running Nigeria? The Yoruba and the minor tribes? Or are the Hausa-Fulani Muslims elites still running the place but simply leaving their own people out to dry?

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    • Replies: @Simon in London
    My impression is that the Muslim elites control the military while the wealth-generating industries are Christian.
  45. Is Frost trying to leap from a comparison of the behaviors of Igbo and a name attached to them in the colonial era as being “the Jews of West Africa” to a genetic relationship to “Jews” that is responsible for that behavior?

    Yuri Slezkine opened his work, The Jewish Century with the

    “bold declaration: The Modern Age is the Jewish Age–and we are all, to varying degrees, Jews.

    The assertion is, of course, metaphorical. “

    Slezkine describes the “Mercurian” behavior characteristics of Jews, and notes that such behaviors are also found among other peoples who carried out similar functions in societies different from their own. In fact, one of the essential characteristics of a Mercurian was alien-ness from the culture in which it operated, a condition necessitated by the disruptive nature of the activities carried out in an otherwise settled community.

    So, which came first, the Mercurian or the Jew?

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    • Replies: @anon
    It seems to me long-term mercantile minorities - if they can remain mostly endogamous - are likely to have a mean IQ slightly higher than the background population.

    If the background population was mean 70 then they might be mean 85.
    If the background population was mean 85 then they might be mean 100.
    If the background population was mean 100 then they might be mean 115.

    (They don't even need to be fully endogamous as long as they only marry people on the right half of the bell curve of the base population.)

    (In fact if they only married people on the right half of the bell curve of the base population they could get it that way.)

    All you have to do is only marry for brains and not a mixture of brains and looks.
  46. @James ben Goy
    The average Ethiopian is far smarter than the average westerner, based on my personal observation. There are no welfare programs in Ethiopia, so they have to hustle to survive, which sharpens the intellect. They do better in western societies where they have open access to education and job or entreprenurial opportunities. That is not the situation in Israel, regrettably

    Ethiopia has a very long and comparatively glorious history as an empire on a continent predominated by tribal peoples. They defeated the Italians the first time around because they were organized enough to field a 100,000 man army (compare that to the few thousands the Zulu fought with) and because they had adopted firearms en masse.

    Calling Italy vs Ethiopia round two “tanks against spears” is as misleading as calling Germany vs Poland “tanks against lances.” The peasant levies fought with spears, but the royal army was, as it was at Adowa, an army of riflemen. The problem was that it was an army of riflemen who fought in conventional warfare against an army with machine guns, motorized columns, artillery, and air support. If you want to see spears against machine guns, look at 20,000 Sudanese Mahdists getting themselves slaughtered by the British at Omdurman instead.

    I would be willing to bet the Ethiopians, or the Amhara at least, are on the high end of the continent cognitively; I think the present day impoverishment of the country has much more to do with geopolitical factors than a lack of cognitive capability. The country has been all but landlocked for more than a century, it’s overpopulated, the climate has been unkind to it, and it’s a multi-ethnic country.

    In fact, you won’t find any other place in the world today that more closely resembles the Austro-Hungarian Empire in terms of ethnic divisions than Ethiopia. The Amhara, the ancient Ethiopians, are one among several large tribes that also include the Oromo, the Tigray, and the Somalis. The country’s been bogged down over the last half century with a decades-long Eritrean insurgency, drought-induced famine, and disastrous misrule under Mengistu’s communist Derg.

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  47. Abidde: “Take the Igbo out of the Nigeria equation, and Nigeria will be a wobbling giant gasping for air!”
    Reminds to me Hugo Bettauer’s novel “City without Jews” 1922 (and the following movie) which pretended that Vienna (or any other German city) without Jews would be a complete failure.
    This kind of boastful prophecies are nearly always wrong. When Jews were expelled actually, their positions in business, finance, technology or administration were rather successfully taken over by non-Jews – and German “Wirtschaftswunder” thereafter happened nearly without Jews. (Ironically, Jews were mostly missed in popular entertainment, but even here they were replaced on the long run.)
    Moreover, “without me, you are nothing” is a message which is hardly ever received with gratitude; more often the receiver will be incited to show that he is quite well something without the sender. Take feminism: A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle.

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    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    The person who wrote that article (Abidde) is not Igbo and he is well known (when he was known) to his audience as being prone to exaggeration and to making claims that have no empirical support. I agree with your sentiment, but he is not an Igbo person making such a boast about the Igbos, but a non-Igbo person making that claim.
  48. I would be willing to bet the Ethiopians, or the Amhara at least, are on the high end of the continent cognitively;

    I win.

    No, according to your own geniuses, the “Africans with the white admixture” are actually quite stupid:

    http://www.tesfanews.net/average-iq-rank-ethiopia-second-dumbest/

    Double or nothing?

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    • Replies: @Vendetta
    My commentary on Ethiopians was not based at all on white admixture but on the historical achievements of their civilization. What was their sample size and who was in it? What ethnic groups? What social backgrounds?
  49. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Igbos be smartest blacks but blacks hate them.

    Shoo. It’s like blacks in America give blacks who ‘act white’ a hard time.

    Read More
  50. @Qasim
    I had left a similar comment on the Chisala article, but thought it might be useful to again note the recent post by Razib Khan which discussed genetic evidence of Nigerians having some DNA from Eurasian pastoralists that interbred with the local population thousands of years ago.

    Igbo often have skin tones and eye colors that are significantly lighter than the typical West African (for example see Andre Iguodala).

    It would seem that if genetic analysis shows that if the Igbo indeed do have more Eurasian DNA than other West Africans, their high achievement will end up supporting the hereditarian view rather than weakening it.

    The tribes with Eurasian ancestry are the northern Muslims groups currently terrorizing Nigeria with boko haram, like Fulani, kanuri, shuwa Arabs and Tuaregs.

    I’ve not seen any study showing igboz to be mixed with non Africans.

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  51. Had the Igbos , not lost the Nigerian civil war. . . Biafra would have been great. . .

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  52. @SFG
    There's apparently more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it--the Khoi and San are apparently more distant from Bantu groups than the other groups of humanity are from each other.

    Race is a social construct in that where we draw the lines and call something a 'race' is our choice. It's not a social construct in that different populations really do have different genetic distances and characterizations. You can call Swedes and Danes different races or different members of the same race, but they both have more in common with each other than they do with an Italian, and the Swede, Dane, and Italian all have more in common with each other than they do with someone from Zimbabwe.

    That said, when it comes to behavior you can have convergent evolution--Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant, and are happy to marry each other at Harvard and raise brainy kids.

    SFG wrote, “Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant”.

    You’ll be surprised. Some of the more easterly Ashkenazim inherited a South Chinese maternal haplogroup called M33c2:

    “The Chinese Lady Who Joined the Ashkenazic People” in Jewish Times Asia, March 2015, page 19

    http://issuu.com/jewishtimesasia/docs/mar2015/19

    Some Ashkenazim show Chinese admixture in Eurogenes’s autosomal DNA calculators:

    “East/Northeast Asian Admixture in Ashkenazic Jews”

    http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/aj-east-asian-admixture.html

    Admittedly, only some Ashkenazim have inherited any Chinese DNA or traits, and of those who did it represents a small proportion of their total genetics.

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  53. If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have “human lottodiversity” The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all

    They are mutable, in the sense that the average mental makeup of a population can change over short spans of historic time. This is one of the key points of HBD writers like Greg Cochran, John Hawks, and Gregory Clark. There is no reason to believe that the Igbo have been shackled to an unchanging Africa-wide mean IQ. With sufficiently strong selection, their mean IQ would have steadily risen from one generation to the next.

    Truth, you’ve been commenting on these blogs for some time now. How is it that you have such a flawed understanding of HBD? At the very least, you must have read the Conclusion of my article.

    The average Ethiopian is far smarter than the average westerner, based on my personal observation. There are no welfare programs in Ethiopia, so they have to hustle to survive, which sharpens the intellect.

    In Ethiopia, layabouts sponge off their wives and other family members. It doesn’t really pay to be successful in Ethiopia because everybody and his cousin will descend on you like a plague of locusts.

    Welfare programs are relatively recent in Western countries, essentially postwar (there was “relief” during the Great Depression, but it was a pittance). I believe in fast evolution but you’re pushing things a bit.

    It would seem that if genetic analysis shows that if the Igbo indeed do have more Eurasian DNA than other West Africans

    I would be very surprised if the Igbo have more Eurasian admixture than other Nigerians. The data I’ve seen show the highest admixture in the north of the country, among the Hausa and the Fulani. The latter in particular are often very North African in appearance.

    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f9/30/9d/f9309dd0c3a04c71f387acbaaf7dddd2.jpg

    You’re taking us back to Truth’s vision of HBD, i.e., there are only three or four races, and everything is a permutation of those basic races.

    I’d also be skeptical of your “weak community identity” theory.

    Igbos originally had a weak sense of collective identity as Igbos. That’s something that developed as they emigrated into non-Igbo areas. Even today, they think more in terms of family or lineage than ethnic identity.

    One final question: every Boko Haram explanation I’ve seen insists upon the dispossession of Nigerian Muslims from politics and the economy as a reason for the movement’s appeal.

    That’s utter nonsense. Muslims are very dominant in Nigerian politics. As for the economy, most Muslim Nigerians simply don’t think in terms of entrepreneurship. They don’t see wealth as something to be created, but rather as something to be transferred.

    Is Frost trying to leap from a comparison of the behaviors of Igbo and a name attached to them in the colonial era as being “the Jews of West Africa” to a genetic relationship to “Jews” that is responsible for that behavior?

    Please call me “Peter.” I’m not sure I fully understand your question. I’m not saying that the Igbo have Jewish ancestry. Nor am I saying their history is completely analogous to that of the Jewish people. It looks like they initially developed as a trade-oriented people within their homeland in the Niger Delta. This situation favored individuals who had certain mental traits: future time orientation, sense of initiative, ability to budget resources over space and time, transactional and symbolic thinking, etc.

    With the arrival of colonialism, it became possible for them to migrate into non-Igbo territories, where the advantages of this mental package were greatly magnified. They were able to dominate any niche that required higher cognitive abilities.

    “without me, you are nothing” is a message which is hardly ever received with gratitude

    I agree. Most Igbo keep a low profile because they are afraid of hostility from the non-Igbo majority. There are also lingering memories of the Igbo coup d’état that precipitated the Nigerian Civil War. But what else is there for Nigeria? If the Igbo won’t become the economic elite, who will? The Hausa? That will take several generations of cultural and genetic change. Unfortunately, Nigeria needs economic leadership now.

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    • Replies: @Truth
    "You’re taking us back to Truth’s vision of HBD, i.e., there are only three or four races, and everything is a permutation of those basic races."

    I think you misunderstand there, Pistol; It is not "Truth's" vision, it is "true" vision according to the vast majority of posters here.

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, "iodine" neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?

    Because no change is truly organic, is it?

    , @Qasim
    Peter, thank you for replying to my post. (although comparing me to Truth is very insulting! :))

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not? Of course this basic division in no way denies the possibility of significant variation within a race, but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If "being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples" leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement. Has this phenomenon been documented?

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn't is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide).

    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.
  54. The etymology suggested for “Toucouleur” is certainly wrong. This Fulani ethnic group was already called “Takruur” in Arabic by the 11th century, a time when no Europeans had yet visited Senegal; the transcription with “couleur” is just a French reinterpretation of the sound in terms of more familiar words. For details on this name’s history, see ‘Umar Al-Naqar, Takrur the History of a Name, Journal of African History Vol. 10, No. 3 (1969), pp. 365-374. The etymology deriving Igbo from Hebrew, I would add, looks no more credible, and is probably wishful thinking on Igbos’ part.

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  55. @Truth
    My friend you must look at the larger picture: HBD explains that Africans (from Africa) have an IQ of 70 (or maybe now, 80) if "you" are honest about your own studies; most of "you" aren't), whites 100 (it is for Brits the test is normed) "elite" Asians, 105, and Ashkenazi 110-115.

    If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have "human lottodiversity" The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all (or, again if you are an "honest" component of HBD, maybe 5%.)

    Now, here is a tribe, in Africa, as dark as any other tribe, that looks, roughly like any other West African tribe, that seems to invalidate this research. Why? That's not possible, all those Ni-...er...blacks are all built of the same stuff?!?!

    Therefore one of two conclusions must be drawn

    1. Intellect is mutable if the proper conditions are met (and this must not be hard if they were met organically without the intervention of white scientists.)
    2. The numbers are wrong and somehow Igbo intellect is mis-measured.
    3. The entire theory of HBD must be called into question.

    And let's say it's 3; then maybe you have to think (as many Africans and African-Americans do) that if IQ is upwardly mutable, then maybe it is downwardly mutable as well, and there is a conspiracy (!)

    Of course, they’re downwardly mutable, as well. If the HBD theory must be called into question, then so be it, but there is an awful lot of data to back it up and very little to discredit it. This is one of the best attempts I’ve seen so far, but it should be subject to the same process of verification as everything else. Really this should be done in a proper academic setting, but we live in a hysterical world of virtue signallers screamng waycist. Look what happened to Jason Richwine.

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  56. @Realist
    " I would expect to see a lot of noise in this kind of evidence because the genetic component is probably smaller than the environmental component."

    There it is....the liberal position on IQ. Racial differences in IQ don't exist....more head start.

    Is that some kind of off the cuff attempt at satire? You don’t intend to say, do you, that any really says that environment sometimes being a bigger factor than genes means that there are no “racial” differences in mental characteristics?

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    • Replies: @Realist
    "Is that some kind of off the cuff attempt at satire?"

    No! Libs want to believe that most IQ differences are nurture not nature. The equality crap.
  57. Your historical framing is very inaccurate with the Igbo having been notably more advanced. Regardless if they engaged in metal smelting earlier and such, the Igbo’s history of urbanization and state building is far less than many other Nigerian and West African groups. The Igbo, before colonialism, were overwhelmingly, if not entirely rural, most of them living in communal villages, and Igbo-Ukwu had been abandoned for centuries. The Yoruba, Benin, Hausa, Kanuri, Nupe, and many others were all urbanized in some degree, and the Yoruba and Benin also had a far greater artistic output than the Igbo. The Yoruba, in the city-state of Ile Ife, created what are the most advanced pre-colonial pieces of african art, with some of the intact figures compared to Greco-Roman realist art, and both the Yoruba and Edo (Benin) created massive earthworks like the Benin Iya and Sungbo’s Eredo (along with many of their cities being walled). Other parts of coastal west africa, largely untouched by muslim contact, were also more developed than the Igbo, such as the Akan people. And again with the Edo, it appears they manufactured their own firearms: https://web.archive.org/web/20130703131027/http://wysinger.homestead.com/beninwarriors.html

    “The kings of Benin during the 18th century and 19th century were conscious of their dependency on European firearms. This compelled Oba Akengbuda (ruled 1750-1804) to encourage local production of light firearms, muskets and flintlock hand-guns. The Oba organized the guild of blacksmiths (Igun Ematon), specialists in iron-casting, by creating a new quarter at Igun n’Ugboha (Plankensteiner 2007: 80). ”

    The Yoruba were also still building their own cities into the 19th century- here is a rare illustration of Ibadan, one built during that time: http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2014/07/ibadan-in-19th-century.html

    And while I don’t have many citations offhand, it appears heavy urbanization in sahel west africa likely predates muslim contact (ignore the ridiculous title): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LkpJdll9A

    I do think it’s likely the case the Igbo are more intelligent. Carl Coon, Carleton Coon’s son, claimed that his father alluded to the Igbo having large cranial capacities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carleton_S._Coon#Coon_was_not_a_racist_in_the_pejorative_sense

    “I am quite confident, on the basis of my recollection of my discussions with him, that he did not mean to include all negroes, or Congoids, or sub-Saharan Africans, as a blanket category incapable of producing superior minds. Africa being the cradle, there is probably at least as much racial variation within the region as outside it, and generalizations about race within the region always troubled him. (I recall his commenting on the large cranial capacity of the Ibo, for example).”

    Though on the other hand, a recent examination of cranial capacity among 3 Nigerian groups (the Igbo, Urhobo and Edo, conducted by Nigerian researchers) did not find the Igbo to have the largest size, being in between the Urhobo and Edo: http://www.ijmhpr.com/article/ESTIMATION%20OF%20CRANIAL%20CAPACITY%20OF%20STUDENTS%20OF%20NNAMDI%20AZIKIWE_UNIVERSITY%20NNEWI%20CAMPUS%20ANAMBRA_STATE%20NIGERIA.pdf

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    • Replies: @Agubata
    The Igbo Nri civilization came into fore during the 9th centruy AD whereas the first Yoruba civilization, Ife, came into fore by the 12th century. Igbos produced art works that are said to be far superior to those produced by the Yoruba and comparable with the those of Europe at the time of their discovery. Majority of Igbo-ukwu artworks were taken away to Britain where they are currently are now. Tests and inspection of these works show a very high degree of sophistication and precision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Igbo-Ukwu

    Just like the Egyptians, ancient Igbos built pyramids, very similar to the Steppe Pyramids of Egypt. https://udumakalu.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/archaeologists-discover-pyramids-in-igboland/

    However, ancient Igbos hardly built cities as they dwelt in family units made into villages and named after their founding ancestor, for example, umuchima meaning 'umu' or descendants and 'chima' being a male Igbo name for their ancestor. The Igbos are republican by nature and barely had kings - for they believed that everyone is equal with no man greater than the other, with each village ruled by a council of elders, and each elder representing a family unit or 'ogbe' within the village, with meetings where every elder gathered to deliberate on issues affecting the people - a similar model practised in the United Kingdom where they have a parliamentary system and no president. The prime minister is only but a ceremonial head.

  58. @Wizard of Oz
    Is that some kind of off the cuff attempt at satire? You don't intend to say, do you, that any really says that environment sometimes being a bigger factor than genes means that there are no "racial" differences in mental characteristics?

    “Is that some kind of off the cuff attempt at satire?”

    No! Libs want to believe that most IQ differences are nurture not nature. The equality crap.

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  59. @SFG
    There's apparently more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it--the Khoi and San are apparently more distant from Bantu groups than the other groups of humanity are from each other.

    Race is a social construct in that where we draw the lines and call something a 'race' is our choice. It's not a social construct in that different populations really do have different genetic distances and characterizations. You can call Swedes and Danes different races or different members of the same race, but they both have more in common with each other than they do with an Italian, and the Swede, Dane, and Italian all have more in common with each other than they do with someone from Zimbabwe.

    That said, when it comes to behavior you can have convergent evolution--Ashkenazim and Chinese have quite a bit in common despite being genetically quite distant, and are happy to marry each other at Harvard and raise brainy kids.

    SFG says:
    There’s apparently more genetic diversity within Africa than outside it–the Khoi and San are apparently more distant from Bantu groups than the other groups of humanity are from each other.

    Indeed. Africa has more diversity within as dental, skin color, cranial, and DNA studies show. This is expected as Africa is where anatomically modern humans originated. Not sure though that Khoi or San are more distant from Bantu than say Swedes.

    .
    Race is a social construct in that where we draw the lines and call something a ‘race’ is our choice. It’s not a social construct in that different populations really do have different genetic distances and characterizations.

    But the process and methods of defining genetic distances and characterizations is itself influenced by social constructs. Sampling for example can be and has been often manipulated to lend a scientific gloss to desired social constructs. Hence in Africa, some DNA studies exclude “the wrong type” of African to create a “Caucasoid” social construct. Others downplay the diversity of Africans and define a narrow, stereotyped “true Negro” – against which everything else can be split off and grouped into another “racial” category. One study for example use one individual from Uganda to stand in as “representative” of all sub-Saharan Africans, but used a broad dataset for Europeans.

    The same thing happens with cranio-skeletal studies. Scholars note how time after time for example, specimens with what seem to be “negro affinities” in the Nile Valley have been re-classified as “Mediterranean” or something else, thus making them conveniently vanish from the published reports. (Kittles and Keita 1997) Likewise the widely used CRANID database is heavily weighted with samples from cemeteries in the far north of Egypt near the Mediterranean as “representative” of Egyptians, but downplays samples from the historic tropical south, from whence the Dynasties sprang (Kemp 2005).

    Some DNA studies do not let the data speak for themselves, but define the racial constructs IN ADVANCE, then plug data into the pre-set pigeonholes, again presenting seeming scientific objectivity but in reality, manipulating the outcomes to fit whatever agenda is desired at the moment. Such problems are specifically mentioned in the current scientific literature, (Armelagos 2001) and are current problems, not way back in the 19th century. Its not simply anonymous bloggers somewhere pointing them out.

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  60. @FirkinRidiculous
    I'm ever wary of large edifices on small foundations. This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (a straightforward, free registration at JStor will yield the whole piece). The lack of more recent references to archaeological studies from these or other sites in the region suggest the state of knowledge hasn't substantially progressed since the 1960s, but I stand ready to be corrected.

    This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (

    The 9th century dates on the actual site are under debate, but as Peter points out above, metallurgy in the surrounding region has been around since that time, and even before. See Lejja for example. And you mention a 1973 article but there are others much more recent. Craddock 1997 et al (Metal Sources and the Bronzes from Igbo-Ukwu, Nigeria) for example also show regional metal work long in place, and the indigenous origin of the Igbo bronzes. As far as metal work in the general area, it is old news.

    Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples? Did these 18/19h century explorers or traders find any other evidences (forms of governance, architecture, technologies, written languages, domesticated animals, etc.) which distinguished the Igbo from the other natives?

    Obviously the explorers or traders must have found distinguishing characteristics. They mention the wide span of Igbo trading activity for example, and the tight, intense trading networks and to that end that exploited the waterways. Almost every history of the Igbo mentions such things. This tight organization gave them a competitive advantage over other ethnic rivals. The Igbo even combined their trading with religion, something that would be familiar to certain European ethnic groups.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    But aside from that, I don't think they had much else, definitely not distinguishing architecture and technology. I think it's really a stretch to consider the Igbo as exemplary because of their trading abilities, especially when they were completely illiterate. They had virtually no cities, which most other Nigerian groups had (and by extension, likely had less advanced government), and the Nok people, who produced Nigeria's earliest advanced artwork, were not ancestral to the Igbo.
  61. If Igbos immigrated to a U.S urban area in mass, I believe they could be successful. If you can make it in Nigeria, you can make it anywhere right? It would be interesting to see if they intermarry with other Igbos, or assimilate in with other African Americans.

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    • Replies: @Agubata
    If they assimilate, they may lose the cultural drive and values that are focal to the Igbo success in the first place. Truth be told, African Americans don't share the same spirit and drive as the Igbos and the cultural difference is stark wide apart. There is also that risk if losing your half Igbo half AA child to the American culture or the child not wanting to go back home in Nigeria. For this reason, Nigerians (or Igbos) hardly marry outside their ethnic tribe and would always prefer to marry within themselves, such that other immigrant blacks in the US know Nigerians for not marrying outside their people.

    There have been a few Igbos marrying outside the Igbo group, just as it always is amongst every group on earth, however an overwhelming majority of 95% marry within the Igbo ethnic group.

    The chances of Igbo marrying en masse with African Americans isn't that much possible to be expected soonest.
  62. @Dipwill
    Your historical framing is very inaccurate with the Igbo having been notably more advanced. Regardless if they engaged in metal smelting earlier and such, the Igbo's history of urbanization and state building is far less than many other Nigerian and West African groups. The Igbo, before colonialism, were overwhelmingly, if not entirely rural, most of them living in communal villages, and Igbo-Ukwu had been abandoned for centuries. The Yoruba, Benin, Hausa, Kanuri, Nupe, and many others were all urbanized in some degree, and the Yoruba and Benin also had a far greater artistic output than the Igbo. The Yoruba, in the city-state of Ile Ife, created what are the most advanced pre-colonial pieces of african art, with some of the intact figures compared to Greco-Roman realist art, and both the Yoruba and Edo (Benin) created massive earthworks like the Benin Iya and Sungbo's Eredo (along with many of their cities being walled). Other parts of coastal west africa, largely untouched by muslim contact, were also more developed than the Igbo, such as the Akan people. And again with the Edo, it appears they manufactured their own firearms: https://web.archive.org/web/20130703131027/http://wysinger.homestead.com/beninwarriors.html

    "The kings of Benin during the 18th century and 19th century were conscious of their dependency on European firearms. This compelled Oba Akengbuda (ruled 1750-1804) to encourage local production of light firearms, muskets and flintlock hand-guns. The Oba organized the guild of blacksmiths (Igun Ematon), specialists in iron-casting, by creating a new quarter at Igun n'Ugboha (Plankensteiner 2007: 80). "

    The Yoruba were also still building their own cities into the 19th century- here is a rare illustration of Ibadan, one built during that time: http://ryfigueroa.blogspot.com/2014/07/ibadan-in-19th-century.html

    And while I don't have many citations offhand, it appears heavy urbanization in sahel west africa likely predates muslim contact (ignore the ridiculous title): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9LkpJdll9A

    I do think it's likely the case the Igbo are more intelligent. Carl Coon, Carleton Coon's son, claimed that his father alluded to the Igbo having large cranial capacities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carleton_S._Coon#Coon_was_not_a_racist_in_the_pejorative_sense

    "I am quite confident, on the basis of my recollection of my discussions with him, that he did not mean to include all negroes, or Congoids, or sub-Saharan Africans, as a blanket category incapable of producing superior minds. Africa being the cradle, there is probably at least as much racial variation within the region as outside it, and generalizations about race within the region always troubled him. (I recall his commenting on the large cranial capacity of the Ibo, for example)."

    Though on the other hand, a recent examination of cranial capacity among 3 Nigerian groups (the Igbo, Urhobo and Edo, conducted by Nigerian researchers) did not find the Igbo to have the largest size, being in between the Urhobo and Edo: http://www.ijmhpr.com/article/ESTIMATION%20OF%20CRANIAL%20CAPACITY%20OF%20STUDENTS%20OF%20NNAMDI%20AZIKIWE_UNIVERSITY%20NNEWI%20CAMPUS%20ANAMBRA_STATE%20NIGERIA.pdf

    The Igbo Nri civilization came into fore during the 9th centruy AD whereas the first Yoruba civilization, Ife, came into fore by the 12th century. Igbos produced art works that are said to be far superior to those produced by the Yoruba and comparable with the those of Europe at the time of their discovery. Majority of Igbo-ukwu artworks were taken away to Britain where they are currently are now. Tests and inspection of these works show a very high degree of sophistication and precision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Igbo-Ukwu

    Just like the Egyptians, ancient Igbos built pyramids, very similar to the Steppe Pyramids of Egypt. https://udumakalu.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/archaeologists-discover-pyramids-in-igboland/

    However, ancient Igbos hardly built cities as they dwelt in family units made into villages and named after their founding ancestor, for example, umuchima meaning ‘umu’ or descendants and ‘chima’ being a male Igbo name for their ancestor. The Igbos are republican by nature and barely had kings – for they believed that everyone is equal with no man greater than the other, with each village ruled by a council of elders, and each elder representing a family unit or ‘ogbe’ within the village, with meetings where every elder gathered to deliberate on issues affecting the people – a similar model practised in the United Kingdom where they have a parliamentary system and no president. The prime minister is only but a ceremonial head.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    I think I've heard of Igbo art back then being comparable to European equivalents, but to say they were more advanced than the art of Ile Ife, I disagree. The realism and portraiture of Ife art is unique in Africa and without any true comparison. And the Igbo pyramids are, well, not even within miles of the Egyptian pyramids. Seriously.
  63. @Enrique Cardova
    This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (

    The 9th century dates on the actual site are under debate, but as Peter points out above, metallurgy in the surrounding region has been around since that time, and even before. See Lejja for example. And you mention a 1973 article but there are others much more recent. Craddock 1997 et al (Metal Sources and the Bronzes from Igbo-Ukwu, Nigeria) for example also show regional metal work long in place, and the indigenous origin of the Igbo bronzes. As far as metal work in the general area, it is old news.


    Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples? Did these 18/19h century explorers or traders find any other evidences (forms of governance, architecture, technologies, written languages, domesticated animals, etc.) which distinguished the Igbo from the other natives?

    Obviously the explorers or traders must have found distinguishing characteristics. They mention the wide span of Igbo trading activity for example, and the tight, intense trading networks and to that end that exploited the waterways. Almost every history of the Igbo mentions such things. This tight organization gave them a competitive advantage over other ethnic rivals. The Igbo even combined their trading with religion, something that would be familiar to certain European ethnic groups.

    But aside from that, I don’t think they had much else, definitely not distinguishing architecture and technology. I think it’s really a stretch to consider the Igbo as exemplary because of their trading abilities, especially when they were completely illiterate. They had virtually no cities, which most other Nigerian groups had (and by extension, likely had less advanced government), and the Nok people, who produced Nigeria’s earliest advanced artwork, were not ancestral to the Igbo.

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    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    Yeah I don't think they are exemplary because of their trading, though this might be better and wider ranging, relatively speaking, than surrounding neighbors. It seems Peter is more highlighting factors that might contribute to their wide ranging current success. Perhaps this would be an example of a fragmented, decentralized type people, who did not go the "large empire route" or have a heavy handed central regime dominating the space. I am trying to think of some other European peoples who lived in that type of decentralized situation, with no real big central empire or hegemon, and yet show up successful today. The Scots come to mind, but until they were associated and incorporated into the larger framework of the British empire, Scotland was a relative backwater.

    Note- The comparison here is NOT to say Scots are "better" etc, but that association with a LARGER hegemon, an empire, a bigger country, a bigger framework, including the influence of things like Christianity with its many schools, health and education efforts, helped the once fragmented, preyed upon Igbo, to end-run larger, more sophisticated neighbors and cultures in the modern era. Some history bears this out.

    The Igbo would look unpromising circa 1800 compared to more sophisticated, literate neighbors, but their decentralized format worked to their advantage, and they quickly adapted to the coming of the British hegemon, acquiring Western education rapidly. This no doubt gave them an enduring head-start in the modern industrial era, on more traditional peoples who did not adapt as quickly. This is a pretty common scenario the world over. The Scots adapted faster to British hegemony than the Irish for example.

    Peter says above re the Ibgo: " This situation favored individuals who had certain mental traits: future time orientation, sense of initiative, ability to budget resources over space and time, transactional and symbolic thinking, etc. "

    I would hesitate to directly ascribe more of the above to the Igbo in comparison to other West Africans. There are plenty of hustling trading peoples- the Duala of Cameroon for example and others, And future time orientation, transactional or symbolic thinking is nothing new among the Ashanti, or the peoples of the Mali empire. But perhaps, with the coming of a larger hegemon like the British, those conducive features of Igbo culture "cut loose" and adapted more rapidly to the new realities on the ground. Wide ranging canoe trading on the rivers for example would overall be welcome to the colonial overlords as they pushed their administrative and commercial net even further inland. Native collaborators who could fit into the system of the hegemon would be further rewarded and be in a position to grasp the new opportunities opened up by the larger empire framework. There is even some data suggesting that Igbo religious beliefs, while fundamentally different in many respects, still shared certain similarities with Christianity, or at least grounds for dialog.
    http://www.cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/61853

    Of course, the Igbo culture cannot be seen as separate from or divorced from the larger regional cultural picture. The whole "Igbo exceptionalism" thing can be pushed too far. Still elements of Igbo culture seem to have been embedded with certain traits that helped adaptation to the modern world. Their distinctive metalwork, and presence of writing systems before Islam among the Igbo also strengthens the case for indigenous development that seized the right opportunity when it came, indicating that Peter's thesis cannot be dismissed out of hand.

  64. I would think an interesting question would be how large the population of the Igbo and other such highly intelligent tribes (Yoruba?) there are in Africa as a percentage of the entire sub-saharan population. The smart fraction theory argues only a minimal number of smart people is needed to grow an economy. (Though a willingness to do so without risking the ire of surrounding populations is also important.) From Wikipedia:

    “The official data on the population of ethnic groups in Nigeria continues to be controversial as a minority of these groups have claimed that the government deliberately deflates the official population of one group, to give the other numerical superiority.[160][161][162] The CIA World Factbook puts the Igbo population of Nigeria at 18% of a total population of 177 million, or approximately 32 million people.”

    Read More
  65. Need I forget that Nollywood, Nigeria’s movie industry, 2nd in the world in gross number of movies produced annually and 3rd in terms of gross revenue was started and owned by the Igbos of South East Nigeria? The culture portrayed in Nollywood movies, majority of the actors, the Nigerian language often spoken are Igbo. This movie industry was started in just the 80s, a time before which the Yorubas had begun their movie industry as far back as the 60s. By early 2000s, the Igbo movie industry or Nollywood, had overtaken not just the Yorubas’ but the entire Africa’s to become worlds number 2 and 3 in terms of gross volume of movies and gross annual revenues respectively. This was made possible by the Igbo entrepreneurial spirit, drive for success, perseverance, intelligence, focus and dedication.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_of_Nigeria

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/magazine/nollywood-movies.html

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  66. @Agubata
    The Igbo Nri civilization came into fore during the 9th centruy AD whereas the first Yoruba civilization, Ife, came into fore by the 12th century. Igbos produced art works that are said to be far superior to those produced by the Yoruba and comparable with the those of Europe at the time of their discovery. Majority of Igbo-ukwu artworks were taken away to Britain where they are currently are now. Tests and inspection of these works show a very high degree of sophistication and precision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_Igbo-Ukwu

    Just like the Egyptians, ancient Igbos built pyramids, very similar to the Steppe Pyramids of Egypt. https://udumakalu.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/archaeologists-discover-pyramids-in-igboland/

    However, ancient Igbos hardly built cities as they dwelt in family units made into villages and named after their founding ancestor, for example, umuchima meaning 'umu' or descendants and 'chima' being a male Igbo name for their ancestor. The Igbos are republican by nature and barely had kings - for they believed that everyone is equal with no man greater than the other, with each village ruled by a council of elders, and each elder representing a family unit or 'ogbe' within the village, with meetings where every elder gathered to deliberate on issues affecting the people - a similar model practised in the United Kingdom where they have a parliamentary system and no president. The prime minister is only but a ceremonial head.

    I think I’ve heard of Igbo art back then being comparable to European equivalents, but to say they were more advanced than the art of Ile Ife, I disagree. The realism and portraiture of Ife art is unique in Africa and without any true comparison. And the Igbo pyramids are, well, not even within miles of the Egyptian pyramids. Seriously.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Agubata
    Ife art and culture has been studied and propagated more in Africa mainly because of the general interest in the study of yoruba culture and tradition and not necessarily because of the 'sophistication' of Ife bronze art works. There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks. The real artistry lies with Igbo-ukwu metal works. The general worldwide interest in the study of Yoruba culture derives from the slave trade era during which the Yorubas were among the last of ethnicities to be shipped to the new world, where they arrived to meet earlier-shipped African tribes who had long assimilated into their environment and lost a great part of their culture. The Yoruba experienced their greatest shipment to the new world (about 500 million people) after the abolishment of slave trade by the British in 1831, also coinciding with the Oyo war during which captives were sold off as slaves. The Yoruba took along with them their traditional gods and having also having arrived at a time when slave laws were abolished and relaxed, they had greater freedom in establishing and practising their religion than other groups and had strong remembrance of where they had come from. Many returned back to Africa (Nigeria and Sierra Leone). Adding to this also is the fact that they were favoured by the Portuguese who took them to mostly Latin America where slave laws were more lenient than in English America (US, Jamaica, Barbados) where Igbos were taken mostly to as they were favoured by the British for their strength and hard work. There were more Congolese, Angolan and Igbo slaves taken to the new world (in millions) than Yorubas but elements of the Yoruba tradition has survived more than these African groups combined by mere virtue of the fact that the Yoruba were the last to arrive and were also taken to areas where slave laws were lenient that they could preserve their identity. Time and environment ensured that the Yoruba tradition survived the most of all African groups taken to the new world.

    Afro-descended groups in the Caribbean who have adopted the Yoruba religion have done so not necessarily because they are Yoruba by ancestry but as a way to connect back to mama Africa. They long to reconnect to their African ancestry, their black pride, and the easiest or most accessible way of doing that is to partake in the Yoruba-derived religion in their country. For this reason, Yoruba culture and tradition has grown quite popular. Many Afro-descended blacks who pick interest in African ancestry are often presented with the Yoruba culture before any other African culture.

    I agree with you, Igbo pyramids don't come close to that of Egyptians but pyramid construction was not a common practice among ancient African groups and it is said that there must have been some level of communication between ancient Egyptians and ancient Igbo people, especially considering the striking similarity between the Igbo pyramids and Steppe pyramids of Egypt.

  67. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @SolontoCroesus
    Is Frost trying to leap from a comparison of the behaviors of Igbo and a name attached to them in the colonial era as being "the Jews of West Africa" to a genetic relationship to "Jews" that is responsible for that behavior?

    Yuri Slezkine opened his work, The Jewish Century with the


    "bold declaration: The Modern Age is the Jewish Age--and we are all, to varying degrees, Jews.

    The assertion is, of course, metaphorical. "
     

    Slezkine describes the "Mercurian" behavior characteristics of Jews, and notes that such behaviors are also found among other peoples who carried out similar functions in societies different from their own. In fact, one of the essential characteristics of a Mercurian was alien-ness from the culture in which it operated, a condition necessitated by the disruptive nature of the activities carried out in an otherwise settled community.

    --

    So, which came first, the Mercurian or the Jew?

    It seems to me long-term mercantile minorities – if they can remain mostly endogamous – are likely to have a mean IQ slightly higher than the background population.

    If the background population was mean 70 then they might be mean 85.
    If the background population was mean 85 then they might be mean 100.
    If the background population was mean 100 then they might be mean 115.

    (They don’t even need to be fully endogamous as long as they only marry people on the right half of the bell curve of the base population.)

    (In fact if they only married people on the right half of the bell curve of the base population they could get it that way.)

    All you have to do is only marry for brains and not a mixture of brains and looks.

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  68. @duderino
    If Igbos immigrated to a U.S urban area in mass, I believe they could be successful. If you can make it in Nigeria, you can make it anywhere right? It would be interesting to see if they intermarry with other Igbos, or assimilate in with other African Americans.

    If they assimilate, they may lose the cultural drive and values that are focal to the Igbo success in the first place. Truth be told, African Americans don’t share the same spirit and drive as the Igbos and the cultural difference is stark wide apart. There is also that risk if losing your half Igbo half AA child to the American culture or the child not wanting to go back home in Nigeria. For this reason, Nigerians (or Igbos) hardly marry outside their ethnic tribe and would always prefer to marry within themselves, such that other immigrant blacks in the US know Nigerians for not marrying outside their people.

    There have been a few Igbos marrying outside the Igbo group, just as it always is amongst every group on earth, however an overwhelming majority of 95% marry within the Igbo ethnic group.

    The chances of Igbo marrying en masse with African Americans isn’t that much possible to be expected soonest.

    Read More
  69. @hbd chick
    @peter - "I can hear the answer to my question: 'You guys are the ones who think all blacks are alike!' Well, that isn’t what I think."

    me, neither! i've been trying to tell people for a while now that there's more to human biodiversity than just racial differences, but not everybody's ready or willing to hear that, apparently. *sigh* there is a (rather large, unfortunately) subset of "hbd-ers" who are seriously confused.

    the igbo are also outbreeders (avoid cousin marriage), btw: fulani, hausa, igbo, and yoruba mating patterns (see also here).

    and another potential "jews of west africa" group appears to be the bamileke of cameroon. i'm not aware of any iq data on them, though.

    hbdchick says
    i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences,

    True enough, though racial differences are at the core of HBD. They are the foundation. Without a racial enemy or “Other” to sneer at, rail against, or contrast invidiously, HBD as an ideological project essentially, falls apart.

    .
    the igbo are also outbreeders (avoid cousin marriage), btw: fulani, hausa, igbo, and yoruba mating patterns (see also here).

    The Igbo are indeed relative outbreeders, but while outbreeding may be a factor in the mix it is an open question how significant it is, compared to other variables. There are other entrepreneurial peoples who are IN-BREEDERS and empire builders to boot. There are the well known Akan peoples, from whom sprang the powerful Ashanti empire, with its far-flung individual and royal trading and also gold-mining operations. There are the Mande and Wolof and Malinke- all peoples who built substantial polities, or contributed to them. The Mande for example founded the empires of Ghana and Mali.

    .
    and another potential “jews of west africa” group appears to be the bamileke of cameroon. i’m not aware of any iq data on them, though.

    The Bamileke are known or their range of craftsmanship and wide trading activities but again, it is questionable if outbreeding has much to do with this. Other factors such as political situation, geographic location etc may be much more important. The Kikuyu of Kenya for example do not seem to be great outbreeders, yet manage to dominate Kenya’s economy today with their hustling entrepreneurial spirit. They have been called the “JEws of Kenya” in some places.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Without a racial enemy or “Other” to sneer at, rail against, or contrast invidiously, HBD as an ideological project essentially, falls apart.
     
    Nonsense.

    Without the point-scoring aspect HBD is simply the truthful version of biology.

    .

    those pyramids look a bit like the ones in the Canary Islands.

    , @Difference Maker
    Nonsense. If true about Igbo it is only another facet of HBD
  70. @Dipwill
    I think I've heard of Igbo art back then being comparable to European equivalents, but to say they were more advanced than the art of Ile Ife, I disagree. The realism and portraiture of Ife art is unique in Africa and without any true comparison. And the Igbo pyramids are, well, not even within miles of the Egyptian pyramids. Seriously.

    Ife art and culture has been studied and propagated more in Africa mainly because of the general interest in the study of yoruba culture and tradition and not necessarily because of the ‘sophistication’ of Ife bronze art works. There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks. The real artistry lies with Igbo-ukwu metal works. The general worldwide interest in the study of Yoruba culture derives from the slave trade era during which the Yorubas were among the last of ethnicities to be shipped to the new world, where they arrived to meet earlier-shipped African tribes who had long assimilated into their environment and lost a great part of their culture. The Yoruba experienced their greatest shipment to the new world (about 500 million people) after the abolishment of slave trade by the British in 1831, also coinciding with the Oyo war during which captives were sold off as slaves. The Yoruba took along with them their traditional gods and having also having arrived at a time when slave laws were abolished and relaxed, they had greater freedom in establishing and practising their religion than other groups and had strong remembrance of where they had come from. Many returned back to Africa (Nigeria and Sierra Leone). Adding to this also is the fact that they were favoured by the Portuguese who took them to mostly Latin America where slave laws were more lenient than in English America (US, Jamaica, Barbados) where Igbos were taken mostly to as they were favoured by the British for their strength and hard work. There were more Congolese, Angolan and Igbo slaves taken to the new world (in millions) than Yorubas but elements of the Yoruba tradition has survived more than these African groups combined by mere virtue of the fact that the Yoruba were the last to arrive and were also taken to areas where slave laws were lenient that they could preserve their identity. Time and environment ensured that the Yoruba tradition survived the most of all African groups taken to the new world.

    Afro-descended groups in the Caribbean who have adopted the Yoruba religion have done so not necessarily because they are Yoruba by ancestry but as a way to connect back to mama Africa. They long to reconnect to their African ancestry, their black pride, and the easiest or most accessible way of doing that is to partake in the Yoruba-derived religion in their country. For this reason, Yoruba culture and tradition has grown quite popular. Many Afro-descended blacks who pick interest in African ancestry are often presented with the Yoruba culture before any other African culture.

    I agree with you, Igbo pyramids don’t come close to that of Egyptians but pyramid construction was not a common practice among ancient African groups and it is said that there must have been some level of communication between ancient Egyptians and ancient Igbo people, especially considering the striking similarity between the Igbo pyramids and Steppe pyramids of Egypt.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    It seems the Igbo were also active in using writing scripts developed in West Africa before the appearance of Islam. Says one scholar:

    QUOTE:

    "However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D'Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many goldweights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system."
    --Kevin Shllingford (2004) "Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa" - Encyclopedia of African History
     
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Would you care to do a revised version after checking your enormously inflated figure of "about 500 million people" and noting that the British abolished the slave trade in and from 1806 or 1807, not 1831 which is pretty close to when they abolished slavery in the West Indies.
    , @Ed
    If the Igbo were favored by the British it must have been for the docility. The Akans had a reputation for running off and organizing rebellions. Many of the Maroon communities in the Caribbean and South America were founded by runaway Akan slaves. The famed Maroon town in Jamaica, Accompong, is named after a common Akan surname.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accompong
  71. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Enrique Cardova
    hbdchick says
    i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences,

    True enough, though racial differences are at the core of HBD. They are the foundation. Without a racial enemy or "Other" to sneer at, rail against, or contrast invidiously, HBD as an ideological project essentially, falls apart.

    .
    the igbo are also outbreeders (avoid cousin marriage), btw: fulani, hausa, igbo, and yoruba mating patterns (see also here).

    The Igbo are indeed relative outbreeders, but while outbreeding may be a factor in the mix it is an open question how significant it is, compared to other variables. There are other entrepreneurial peoples who are IN-BREEDERS and empire builders to boot. There are the well known Akan peoples, from whom sprang the powerful Ashanti empire, with its far-flung individual and royal trading and also gold-mining operations. There are the Mande and Wolof and Malinke- all peoples who built substantial polities, or contributed to them. The Mande for example founded the empires of Ghana and Mali.


    .
    and another potential “jews of west africa” group appears to be the bamileke of cameroon. i’m not aware of any iq data on them, though.

    The Bamileke are known or their range of craftsmanship and wide trading activities but again, it is questionable if outbreeding has much to do with this. Other factors such as political situation, geographic location etc may be much more important. The Kikuyu of Kenya for example do not seem to be great outbreeders, yet manage to dominate Kenya's economy today with their hustling entrepreneurial spirit. They have been called the "JEws of Kenya" in some places.

    Without a racial enemy or “Other” to sneer at, rail against, or contrast invidiously, HBD as an ideological project essentially, falls apart.

    Nonsense.

    Without the point-scoring aspect HBD is simply the truthful version of biology.

    .

    those pyramids look a bit like the ones in the Canary Islands.

    Read More
  72. @Dipwill
    But aside from that, I don't think they had much else, definitely not distinguishing architecture and technology. I think it's really a stretch to consider the Igbo as exemplary because of their trading abilities, especially when they were completely illiterate. They had virtually no cities, which most other Nigerian groups had (and by extension, likely had less advanced government), and the Nok people, who produced Nigeria's earliest advanced artwork, were not ancestral to the Igbo.

    Yeah I don’t think they are exemplary because of their trading, though this might be better and wider ranging, relatively speaking, than surrounding neighbors. It seems Peter is more highlighting factors that might contribute to their wide ranging current success. Perhaps this would be an example of a fragmented, decentralized type people, who did not go the “large empire route” or have a heavy handed central regime dominating the space. I am trying to think of some other European peoples who lived in that type of decentralized situation, with no real big central empire or hegemon, and yet show up successful today. The Scots come to mind, but until they were associated and incorporated into the larger framework of the British empire, Scotland was a relative backwater.

    Note- The comparison here is NOT to say Scots are “better” etc, but that association with a LARGER hegemon, an empire, a bigger country, a bigger framework, including the influence of things like Christianity with its many schools, health and education efforts, helped the once fragmented, preyed upon Igbo, to end-run larger, more sophisticated neighbors and cultures in the modern era. Some history bears this out.

    The Igbo would look unpromising circa 1800 compared to more sophisticated, literate neighbors, but their decentralized format worked to their advantage, and they quickly adapted to the coming of the British hegemon, acquiring Western education rapidly. This no doubt gave them an enduring head-start in the modern industrial era, on more traditional peoples who did not adapt as quickly. This is a pretty common scenario the world over. The Scots adapted faster to British hegemony than the Irish for example.

    Peter says above re the Ibgo: ” This situation favored individuals who had certain mental traits: future time orientation, sense of initiative, ability to budget resources over space and time, transactional and symbolic thinking, etc. “

    I would hesitate to directly ascribe more of the above to the Igbo in comparison to other West Africans. There are plenty of hustling trading peoples- the Duala of Cameroon for example and others, And future time orientation, transactional or symbolic thinking is nothing new among the Ashanti, or the peoples of the Mali empire. But perhaps, with the coming of a larger hegemon like the British, those conducive features of Igbo culture “cut loose” and adapted more rapidly to the new realities on the ground. Wide ranging canoe trading on the rivers for example would overall be welcome to the colonial overlords as they pushed their administrative and commercial net even further inland. Native collaborators who could fit into the system of the hegemon would be further rewarded and be in a position to grasp the new opportunities opened up by the larger empire framework. There is even some data suggesting that Igbo religious beliefs, while fundamentally different in many respects, still shared certain similarities with Christianity, or at least grounds for dialog.

    http://www.cambridgescholars.com/download/sample/61853

    Of course, the Igbo culture cannot be seen as separate from or divorced from the larger regional cultural picture. The whole “Igbo exceptionalism” thing can be pushed too far. Still elements of Igbo culture seem to have been embedded with certain traits that helped adaptation to the modern world. Their distinctive metalwork, and presence of writing systems before Islam among the Igbo also strengthens the case for indigenous development that seized the right opportunity when it came, indicating that Peter’s thesis cannot be dismissed out of hand.

    Read More
  73. One need not even look far or beyond Nigeria for evidence of Igbo achievement and success in education. Within Nigeria, the Igbo tribe has continuously excelled in nationwide federal and state examinations from primary school level to tertiary level, in exams such as WASSCE, NECO, JAMB etc. In the released WAEC results of last year 2014, all Igbo states, full and partial, dominated the list of top 10 performing states, with the highest pass rate of all ethnic states in the country. Igbo states such as Anambra, Enugu, Abia, Imo, Rivers (part Igbo), Delta (part Igbo) etc. often have the highest cut-off points for admission from primary school level to university level.

    Time after time, the Igbo have consistently proven themselves in education, within or beyond Nigeria.

    http://dailypost.ng/2014/08/29/2014-wassce-statistics-show-states-highest-percentage-pass-possible-cause-mass-failure/

    Read More
  74. @Agubata
    Ife art and culture has been studied and propagated more in Africa mainly because of the general interest in the study of yoruba culture and tradition and not necessarily because of the 'sophistication' of Ife bronze art works. There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks. The real artistry lies with Igbo-ukwu metal works. The general worldwide interest in the study of Yoruba culture derives from the slave trade era during which the Yorubas were among the last of ethnicities to be shipped to the new world, where they arrived to meet earlier-shipped African tribes who had long assimilated into their environment and lost a great part of their culture. The Yoruba experienced their greatest shipment to the new world (about 500 million people) after the abolishment of slave trade by the British in 1831, also coinciding with the Oyo war during which captives were sold off as slaves. The Yoruba took along with them their traditional gods and having also having arrived at a time when slave laws were abolished and relaxed, they had greater freedom in establishing and practising their religion than other groups and had strong remembrance of where they had come from. Many returned back to Africa (Nigeria and Sierra Leone). Adding to this also is the fact that they were favoured by the Portuguese who took them to mostly Latin America where slave laws were more lenient than in English America (US, Jamaica, Barbados) where Igbos were taken mostly to as they were favoured by the British for their strength and hard work. There were more Congolese, Angolan and Igbo slaves taken to the new world (in millions) than Yorubas but elements of the Yoruba tradition has survived more than these African groups combined by mere virtue of the fact that the Yoruba were the last to arrive and were also taken to areas where slave laws were lenient that they could preserve their identity. Time and environment ensured that the Yoruba tradition survived the most of all African groups taken to the new world.

    Afro-descended groups in the Caribbean who have adopted the Yoruba religion have done so not necessarily because they are Yoruba by ancestry but as a way to connect back to mama Africa. They long to reconnect to their African ancestry, their black pride, and the easiest or most accessible way of doing that is to partake in the Yoruba-derived religion in their country. For this reason, Yoruba culture and tradition has grown quite popular. Many Afro-descended blacks who pick interest in African ancestry are often presented with the Yoruba culture before any other African culture.

    I agree with you, Igbo pyramids don't come close to that of Egyptians but pyramid construction was not a common practice among ancient African groups and it is said that there must have been some level of communication between ancient Egyptians and ancient Igbo people, especially considering the striking similarity between the Igbo pyramids and Steppe pyramids of Egypt.

    It seems the Igbo were also active in using writing scripts developed in West Africa before the appearance of Islam. Says one scholar:

    QUOTE:

    “However, such systems are also found in areas where Muslim influence has been less strong or is unlikely. Thus, among the Ashanti and other Akan-speaking peoples of Ghana and Cote D’Ivorie, where gold was of great political, economic and symbolic significance, many goldweights bore signs that indicated their precise ponderal value; other signs corresponded to proverbs, while others represented concepts (for example, certain aspects of the Supreme Being). The nsibidi system of the Ekoi, Igbo and Ibibio peoples of the Cross River area of present-day Nigeria used over a thousand signs to represent a considerable number of concepts as well as some sounds. Nsibidi was used to record court cases and convey complex messages, including warnings in wartime, and for summarizing folktales and personal narratives; its pictograms thus constituted a true writing system.”
    –Kevin Shllingford (2004) “Literacy and Indigenous Scripts: Pre-colonial West Africa” – Encyclopedia of African History

    Read More
  75. @Agubata
    Ife art and culture has been studied and propagated more in Africa mainly because of the general interest in the study of yoruba culture and tradition and not necessarily because of the 'sophistication' of Ife bronze art works. There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks. The real artistry lies with Igbo-ukwu metal works. The general worldwide interest in the study of Yoruba culture derives from the slave trade era during which the Yorubas were among the last of ethnicities to be shipped to the new world, where they arrived to meet earlier-shipped African tribes who had long assimilated into their environment and lost a great part of their culture. The Yoruba experienced their greatest shipment to the new world (about 500 million people) after the abolishment of slave trade by the British in 1831, also coinciding with the Oyo war during which captives were sold off as slaves. The Yoruba took along with them their traditional gods and having also having arrived at a time when slave laws were abolished and relaxed, they had greater freedom in establishing and practising their religion than other groups and had strong remembrance of where they had come from. Many returned back to Africa (Nigeria and Sierra Leone). Adding to this also is the fact that they were favoured by the Portuguese who took them to mostly Latin America where slave laws were more lenient than in English America (US, Jamaica, Barbados) where Igbos were taken mostly to as they were favoured by the British for their strength and hard work. There were more Congolese, Angolan and Igbo slaves taken to the new world (in millions) than Yorubas but elements of the Yoruba tradition has survived more than these African groups combined by mere virtue of the fact that the Yoruba were the last to arrive and were also taken to areas where slave laws were lenient that they could preserve their identity. Time and environment ensured that the Yoruba tradition survived the most of all African groups taken to the new world.

    Afro-descended groups in the Caribbean who have adopted the Yoruba religion have done so not necessarily because they are Yoruba by ancestry but as a way to connect back to mama Africa. They long to reconnect to their African ancestry, their black pride, and the easiest or most accessible way of doing that is to partake in the Yoruba-derived religion in their country. For this reason, Yoruba culture and tradition has grown quite popular. Many Afro-descended blacks who pick interest in African ancestry are often presented with the Yoruba culture before any other African culture.

    I agree with you, Igbo pyramids don't come close to that of Egyptians but pyramid construction was not a common practice among ancient African groups and it is said that there must have been some level of communication between ancient Egyptians and ancient Igbo people, especially considering the striking similarity between the Igbo pyramids and Steppe pyramids of Egypt.

    Would you care to do a revised version after checking your enormously inflated figure of “about 500 million people” and noting that the British abolished the slave trade in and from 1806 or 1807, not 1831 which is pretty close to when they abolished slavery in the West Indies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Agubata
    Thanks for letting me know. The errors have been corrected from 500 million to 500 thousand and 1831 to 1807. I was really typing in a hurry. I was unable to edit the original post given that the 5-minute time frame for editing had long elapsed, I had to copy, paste , edit and re-post the original post.
  76. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Peter Frost
    Don’t trust GCSE’s. O-levels were entirely exam based and hard to falsify. GCSE’s are largely based on coursework and cheating is rife.

    Like IQ tests, these are all proxies for the genetic component of intelligence. We forget that IQ is only partly genetic, perhaps 50 to 80% depending on the age group or the uniformity of the testing. The GCSE has a smaller genetic component, and in some ways a different genetic component. It largely measures diligence and willingness to do your assignments on time.

    But there clearly is a pattern, despite the noise in the data.

    me, neither! i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences

    Human biodiversity is ubiquitous. It's not just that we see statistical differences in mental traits between relatively small populations (which sometimes have no sense of having separate ethnic identities). We also see differences over time within the same population. I agree with Gregory Clark that the English of the 19th century had become genetically different through a process of selection over the previous eight centuries. Evolution can proceed quite fast if the selection pressure is strong enough.

    Chanda Chisala’s data points do not corroborate one another and in fact conflicts heavily. More damningly, he didn’t even bother to even convincingly fake some of the so-called “data”. For example Figure 6 has the Luganda’s passing at 75% in 2009, only to drop to 33% in 2010 and then rise back to 83% in 2011. Or the laughable 100% Igbo pass rate in 2009. Or the 0% for the Lingala in 2009 only to dramatically rise to 50% in 2010.

    I see that as evidence that he didn't fake his data. I would expect to see a lot of noise in this kind of evidence because the genetic component is probably smaller than the environmental component. I've seen fake data, and it generally looks too "correct."

    Pete, you have some (mediocre) minds spinning unsure of which way to do damage control with this one.

    A lot of people see this as a kind of hockey game (or soccer game?) where you're supposed to cheer for the home team.

    This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (a straightforward, free registration at JStor will yield the whole piece). The lack of more recent references to archaeological studies from these or other sites in the region suggest the state of knowledge hasn’t substantially progressed since the 1960s, but I stand ready to be corrected.

    There were two other studies from the 1980s (with three new radiocarbon dates) which confirmed the 9th century estimate. In any case, the Igbo-Ukwu finds are clearly pre-contact. The later dates from the 14th century simply confirm that the site was continuously occupied over a long time.

    For a review of the literature, go to:

    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Christopher_Decorse/publication/275656506_Beads_as_Chronological_Indicators_in_West_African_Archaeology/links/554397f10cf234bdb21bd2cb.pdf

    Which note? Sabino and Hall? Could you give us some examples?

    The note is at the end of my article. Examples are numerous:

    "All over Nigeria, Ibos filled urban jobs at every level far out of proportion to their numbers, as laborers and domestic servants, as bureaucrats, corporate managers, and technicians. Two-thirds of the senior jobs in the Nigerian Railway Corporation were held by Ibos. Three-quarters of Nigeria's diplomats came from the Eastern Region. So did almost half of the 4,500 students graduating from Nigerian universities in 1966. The Ibos became known as the "Jews of Africa," despised-and envied-for their achievements and acquisitiveness. Inevitably, ethnic tensions mounted. Competition for political offices and job promotions routinely degenerated into tribal rivalry. Nigeria was smoldering."

    http://archive.wilsonquarterly.com/sites/default/files/articles/WQ_VOL4_W_1980_Article_01_2.pdf

    Even Henry Kissinger made this comparison back in the 1960s:

    "The Ibos are the wandering Jews of West Africa -- gifted, aggressive, Westernized; at best envied and resented, but mostly despised by the mass of their neighbors in the Federation."

    He also attributed the Nigerian civil war to the Igbo coup d'état the year before:

    "The civil war is rooted in the failure of the first generation of British-tutored politicians to make something of independence and unity. While London and Washington poured in money and high expectations, corruption grew apace and decisions were drained of content by the tribal bickering that lay behind the facade of national parties. In one sense the first coup in 1966 was a classic effort by young officers to set things right. But they were also eastern Ibos who murdered with ritual flair a northern Hausa Prime Minister along with the Premiers of the Northern and Western States."

    http://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e5/55258.htm

    It largely measures diligence and willingness to do your assignments on time.

    If the experiences of my teacher friend (and the papers I have seen where cheating are evident) in the CA School system, then that is not quite true.

    For examples, students get their tutors to complete their homework assignments, or copy other kids work or whatever is needed to turn the work in.

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  77. @Pseudonymic Handle
    Ethiopian Jews are genetically ethiopian, so their cognitive and behavioural performance is what you would expect of ethiopians.

    No dispute about your point that Ethiopian Jews are what you would expect of ethnic Ethiopians (though that would be no certainty if one religious group had, for example an insistence on literacy or a cultural trait (e.g. wrt usury) that encourage trade and finance. However, would you care to address my speculation that having to look too far to find mates could mean having to marry the very stupid or not marry at all?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I'd imagine groups in that situation would need to create a culture where the women have very large numbers of children.

  78. Ife art and culture has been studied and propagated more in Africa mainly because of the general interest in the study of yoruba culture and tradition and not necessarily because of the ‘sophistication’ of Ife bronze art works. There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks. The real artistry lies with Igbo-ukwu metal works. The general worldwide interest in the study of Yoruba culture derives from the slave trade era during which the Yorubas were among the last of ethnicities to be shipped to the new world, where they arrived to meet earlier-shipped African tribes who had long assimilated into their environment and lost a great part of their culture. The Yoruba experienced their greatest shipment to the new world (about 500 thousand people) after the abolishment of slave trade by the British in 1807, also coinciding with the Oyo war during which captives were sold off as slaves. The Yoruba took along with them their traditional gods and having also having arrived at a time when slave laws were abolished and relaxed, they had greater freedom in establishing and practising their religion than other groups and had strong remembrance of where they had come from. Many returned back to Africa (Nigeria and Sierra Leone). Adding to this also is the fact that they were favoured by the Portuguese who took them to mostly Latin America where slave laws were more lenient than in English America (US, Jamaica, Barbados) where Igbos were taken mostly to as they were favoured by the British for their strength and hard work. There were more Congolese, Angolan and Igbo slaves taken to the new world (in millions) than Yorubas but elements of the Yoruba tradition has survived more than these African groups combined by mere virtue of the fact that the Yoruba were the last to arrive and were also taken to areas where slave laws were lenient that they could preserve their identity. Time and environment ensured that the Yoruba tradition survived the most of all African groups taken to the new world.

    Afro-descended groups in the Caribbean who have adopted the Yoruba religion have done so not necessarily because they are Yoruba by ancestry but as a way to connect back to mama Africa. They long to reconnect to their African ancestry, their black pride, and the easiest or most accessible way of doing that is to partake in the Yoruba-derived religion in their country. For this reason, Yoruba culture and tradition has grown quite popular. Many Afro-descended blacks who pick interest in African ancestry are often presented with the Yoruba culture before any other African culture.

    I agree with you, Igbo pyramids don’t come close to that of Egyptians but pyramid construction was not a common practice among ancient African groups and it is said that there must have been some level of communication between ancient Egyptians and ancient Igbo people, especially considering the striking similarity between the Igbo pyramids and Steppe pyramids of Egypt.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    "There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks."

    You obviously have not seen much of Yoruba artwork or read the studies on it.
  79. @Wizard of Oz
    Would you care to do a revised version after checking your enormously inflated figure of "about 500 million people" and noting that the British abolished the slave trade in and from 1806 or 1807, not 1831 which is pretty close to when they abolished slavery in the West Indies.

    Thanks for letting me know. The errors have been corrected from 500 million to 500 thousand and 1831 to 1807. I was really typing in a hurry. I was unable to edit the original post given that the 5-minute time frame for editing had long elapsed, I had to copy, paste , edit and re-post the original post.

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  80. @anon

    The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all...
     
    That's not the entire point - although admittedly it is for some.

    The point is these things are immutable in one generation. They are entirely mutable over multiple generations and clearly have been.

    “A generation” is only 20 years, Bro.

    Read More
    • Replies: @22pp22
    Please tell me you're not a Kiwi, Bro.
    , @Deduction
    You're right, which is it would be easy to improve the developmental prospects of Africa or the social prospects of Black Americans.

    We could sterilise all except the cognitive top ten percent and create a new super smart race.

    Or we could tie contraceptive injections to welfare reception.

    Or we could encourage polygamy by the elites of the society.

    The effect in exams given to eleven year olds could be seen as quickly as the next eleven years and 9 months!

    There are a lot of eugenic policies which would give us quite quick results. Not all as hard to sell as those above.

    We could have a falling top rate of tax for each additional child an earner has.

    We could make contraception freely available in alcohol shops and McDonald's.

    We could develop a one dollar 3 month contraceptive injection with a disposable needle which a non-qualified individual can easily use...oh wait, the Gates foundation has already done this!

    If we don't try to make a society eugenic, given the availability of contraception, I believe it will default to being dysgenic for intelligence.
    , @anon
    Yes, which is why if there were active measures to fix these problems (instead of ignoring them) then it wouldn't take that long (in historical terms).
    , @Realist
    "“A generation” is only 20 years, Bro."

    With blacks it's about 15 years...Bro!
    , @syonredux

    “A generation” is only 20 years, Bro.

     

    Cochran disagrees:

    Second, about dates: they assume a mutation rate of 1.44 x 10-8 per generation, and a generation length of 25 years. I think both of those are a little off. All the directly-measured whole-genome rates are between 0.96×10−8 and 1.20×10−8: I wouldn’t go higher than 1.20 x 10-8 per generation, with what I know now. In the course of looking at paternal age effects, I also checked out the known data on average generation lengths. In no known population is it as short as 25 years: never less than 28 for females, and almost always longer than 28 for males, usually in the 30s. 30 is a much more reasonable generation length than 25.
     
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/ashkenazi-ancestry-revisited/
    , @Hibernian
    Try 15-45. In the culture I grew up in, people who had their 1st kid at a young age often had a bunch of kids the last of which was born when the father and mother were middle aged. At least one nephew was older than his uncle. And this was no redneck culture (well maybe a little redneck compared to lakefront Chicago where I live now.)
  81. @Truth

    I would be willing to bet the Ethiopians, or the Amhara at least, are on the high end of the continent cognitively;
     
    I win.

    No, according to your own geniuses, the "Africans with the white admixture" are actually quite stupid:

    http://www.tesfanews.net/average-iq-rank-ethiopia-second-dumbest/

    Double or nothing?

    My commentary on Ethiopians was not based at all on white admixture but on the historical achievements of their civilization. What was their sample size and who was in it? What ethnic groups? What social backgrounds?

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  82. @Peter Frost
    If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have “human lottodiversity” The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all

    They are mutable, in the sense that the average mental makeup of a population can change over short spans of historic time. This is one of the key points of HBD writers like Greg Cochran, John Hawks, and Gregory Clark. There is no reason to believe that the Igbo have been shackled to an unchanging Africa-wide mean IQ. With sufficiently strong selection, their mean IQ would have steadily risen from one generation to the next.

    Truth, you've been commenting on these blogs for some time now. How is it that you have such a flawed understanding of HBD? At the very least, you must have read the Conclusion of my article.

    The average Ethiopian is far smarter than the average westerner, based on my personal observation. There are no welfare programs in Ethiopia, so they have to hustle to survive, which sharpens the intellect.

    In Ethiopia, layabouts sponge off their wives and other family members. It doesn't really pay to be successful in Ethiopia because everybody and his cousin will descend on you like a plague of locusts.

    Welfare programs are relatively recent in Western countries, essentially postwar (there was "relief" during the Great Depression, but it was a pittance). I believe in fast evolution but you're pushing things a bit.

    It would seem that if genetic analysis shows that if the Igbo indeed do have more Eurasian DNA than other West Africans

    I would be very surprised if the Igbo have more Eurasian admixture than other Nigerians. The data I've seen show the highest admixture in the north of the country, among the Hausa and the Fulani. The latter in particular are often very North African in appearance.
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f9/30/9d/f9309dd0c3a04c71f387acbaaf7dddd2.jpg

    You're taking us back to Truth's vision of HBD, i.e., there are only three or four races, and everything is a permutation of those basic races.

    I’d also be skeptical of your “weak community identity” theory.

    Igbos originally had a weak sense of collective identity as Igbos. That's something that developed as they emigrated into non-Igbo areas. Even today, they think more in terms of family or lineage than ethnic identity.

    One final question: every Boko Haram explanation I’ve seen insists upon the dispossession of Nigerian Muslims from politics and the economy as a reason for the movement’s appeal.

    That's utter nonsense. Muslims are very dominant in Nigerian politics. As for the economy, most Muslim Nigerians simply don't think in terms of entrepreneurship. They don't see wealth as something to be created, but rather as something to be transferred.

    Is Frost trying to leap from a comparison of the behaviors of Igbo and a name attached to them in the colonial era as being “the Jews of West Africa” to a genetic relationship to “Jews” that is responsible for that behavior?

    Please call me "Peter." I'm not sure I fully understand your question. I'm not saying that the Igbo have Jewish ancestry. Nor am I saying their history is completely analogous to that of the Jewish people. It looks like they initially developed as a trade-oriented people within their homeland in the Niger Delta. This situation favored individuals who had certain mental traits: future time orientation, sense of initiative, ability to budget resources over space and time, transactional and symbolic thinking, etc.

    With the arrival of colonialism, it became possible for them to migrate into non-Igbo territories, where the advantages of this mental package were greatly magnified. They were able to dominate any niche that required higher cognitive abilities.

    “without me, you are nothing” is a message which is hardly ever received with gratitude

    I agree. Most Igbo keep a low profile because they are afraid of hostility from the non-Igbo majority. There are also lingering memories of the Igbo coup d'état that precipitated the Nigerian Civil War. But what else is there for Nigeria? If the Igbo won't become the economic elite, who will? The Hausa? That will take several generations of cultural and genetic change. Unfortunately, Nigeria needs economic leadership now.

    “You’re taking us back to Truth’s vision of HBD, i.e., there are only three or four races, and everything is a permutation of those basic races.”

    I think you misunderstand there, Pistol; It is not “Truth’s” vision, it is “true” vision according to the vast majority of posters here.

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, “iodine” neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?

    Because no change is truly organic, is it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    If by posters you mean commenters, Peter is not responsible for their misconceptions and they are better informed after reading him, unless they fall back on 'What is truth?' type arguments.
    , @syonredux

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, “iodine” neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?

    Because no change is truly organic, is it?
     
    Again, Truth, try reading this:




    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/the-breeders-equation/

    And, if you feel up for it, try reading this:


    The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution
    by Gregory Cochran , Henry Harpending

    http://www.amazon.com/The-000-Year-Explosion-Civilization/dp/0465020429
  83. @Duke of Qin
    Fake data created by people who at least semi-know what they are doing looks too neat. Fake data by completely clueless people look like this. You do not get a 0% GCSE pass rate in one year and a 50% the next because of statistical noise. It is either because your sample size is 2 people or you are just making figures up out of thin air.

    Furthermore as others have noted, the GCSE has been heavily diluted to the point where its predictive usefulness has been obliterated. The UK CAT summary I linked to also has a new Situational Judgement Test (SJT) component that was added post 2012 in addition to the standard cognitive test. The SJT (aka the Social Justice Test) component of any test is in it's primary purpose designed to show reduced levels disparate impact. This feature not bug is intended to to obfuscate by pretending subjective surveys (nice guy, team player) are objective data.

    By the way, here is a hilarious take on the UK CAT SJT.

    http://captiongenerator.com/2720/SJT-Hitler-2

    Wouldn’t the surprisingly different results from a very small sample size one year constitute “statistical noise” in the relevant sense or at least support the same point?

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  84. @FirkinRidiculous
    I'm ever wary of large edifices on small foundations. This 1973 article by Babatunde Lawal (http://www.jstor.org/stable/180773?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents) casts what appear to be well-reasoned doubts on the 9th century radiocarbon-dating (a straightforward, free registration at JStor will yield the whole piece). The lack of more recent references to archaeological studies from these or other sites in the region suggest the state of knowledge hasn't substantially progressed since the 1960s, but I stand ready to be corrected.

    The article by Lawal was refuted by a later article by Thurstan Shaw

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  85. @Stogumber
    Abidde: "Take the Igbo out of the Nigeria equation, and Nigeria will be a wobbling giant gasping for air!"
    Reminds to me Hugo Bettauer's novel "City without Jews" 1922 (and the following movie) which pretended that Vienna (or any other German city) without Jews would be a complete failure.
    This kind of boastful prophecies are nearly always wrong. When Jews were expelled actually, their positions in business, finance, technology or administration were rather successfully taken over by non-Jews - and German "Wirtschaftswunder" thereafter happened nearly without Jews. (Ironically, Jews were mostly missed in popular entertainment, but even here they were replaced on the long run.)
    Moreover, "without me, you are nothing" is a message which is hardly ever received with gratitude; more often the receiver will be incited to show that he is quite well something without the sender. Take feminism: A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle.

    The person who wrote that article (Abidde) is not Igbo and he is well known (when he was known) to his audience as being prone to exaggeration and to making claims that have no empirical support. I agree with your sentiment, but he is not an Igbo person making such a boast about the Igbos, but a non-Igbo person making that claim.

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  86. @Agubata
    @duderino
    Ife art and culture has been studied and propagated more in Africa mainly because of the general interest in the study of yoruba culture and tradition and not necessarily because of the ‘sophistication’ of Ife bronze art works. There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks. The real artistry lies with Igbo-ukwu metal works. The general worldwide interest in the study of Yoruba culture derives from the slave trade era during which the Yorubas were among the last of ethnicities to be shipped to the new world, where they arrived to meet earlier-shipped African tribes who had long assimilated into their environment and lost a great part of their culture. The Yoruba experienced their greatest shipment to the new world (about 500 thousand people) after the abolishment of slave trade by the British in 1807, also coinciding with the Oyo war during which captives were sold off as slaves. The Yoruba took along with them their traditional gods and having also having arrived at a time when slave laws were abolished and relaxed, they had greater freedom in establishing and practising their religion than other groups and had strong remembrance of where they had come from. Many returned back to Africa (Nigeria and Sierra Leone). Adding to this also is the fact that they were favoured by the Portuguese who took them to mostly Latin America where slave laws were more lenient than in English America (US, Jamaica, Barbados) where Igbos were taken mostly to as they were favoured by the British for their strength and hard work. There were more Congolese, Angolan and Igbo slaves taken to the new world (in millions) than Yorubas but elements of the Yoruba tradition has survived more than these African groups combined by mere virtue of the fact that the Yoruba were the last to arrive and were also taken to areas where slave laws were lenient that they could preserve their identity. Time and environment ensured that the Yoruba tradition survived the most of all African groups taken to the new world.

    Afro-descended groups in the Caribbean who have adopted the Yoruba religion have done so not necessarily because they are Yoruba by ancestry but as a way to connect back to mama Africa. They long to reconnect to their African ancestry, their black pride, and the easiest or most accessible way of doing that is to partake in the Yoruba-derived religion in their country. For this reason, Yoruba culture and tradition has grown quite popular. Many Afro-descended blacks who pick interest in African ancestry are often presented with the Yoruba culture before any other African culture.

    I agree with you, Igbo pyramids don’t come close to that of Egyptians but pyramid construction was not a common practice among ancient African groups and it is said that there must have been some level of communication between ancient Egyptians and ancient Igbo people, especially considering the striking similarity between the Igbo pyramids and Steppe pyramids of Egypt.

    “There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks.”

    You obviously have not seen much of Yoruba artwork or read the studies on it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dipwill
    I wouldn't bother replying to him further, I realized he's an Igbo nationalist who doesn't like anything disparaging being said about his group. He thinks the reason Yoruba art is considered so advanced is because of how prominent Yoruba culture is in new world slaves and that they're just the best studied and so there's no real basis for their art being considered worthwhile, and he not only thinks the Igbo "pyramids" are at all worth being mentioned in the same breath as the Egyptian ones, but that they're "strikingly similar". He's clearly trying to draw a link with the Igbo having heritage with the Ancient Egyptians when, aside from trade, I don't think there's much at all, especially if he thinks the Igbo pyramids (which are really just stacks of mud) are comparable to the Egyptian ones.
  87. @syonredux
    Intra-racial variation in accomplishment is the very essence of HBD.Take, say, Western Europe.Is it just an undifferentiated mass? Hardly.Look at the the Iberian Peninsula.Compared to France, Italy, Germany, and Britain, it has not accomplished much in the arts and the sciences.

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.Spain from 1500-1650 was just keeping up (barely) with England, France, Italy, etc.Afterwards, it fell far behind ( cf Murray,Human Accomplishment, 338):

    Between 1650 and 1850-during the same two centuries when Britain, France, and Germany were producing hundreds of significant figures and even Italy in its decline produced several dozen-Spain produced a single major figure (Goya) and 11 significant figures.
     
    (Murray, Human Accomplishment , 338

    And look at the maps on pages 301-303 of Human Accomplishment.They show the origins of significant figures in the arts and the sciences from 1400 to 1950 in Europe.The Iberian Peninsula contributes very, very little.Compared to Western Europe’s big 4 (Britain, Italy, Germany, France), Iberia is quite third tier.

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.

    I would say imposing your languages and religion on all of South and Central America, plus Mexico, is a pretty golden era.

    Like the USA with Vietnam and Iraq, Spain wasted the excess wealth in earned during its peak years with really stupid foreign wars, for example trying to keep modern Belgium and Netherlands part of the Spanish Kingdom was a very costly and bloody ordeal. Not just the lost lives, but the expensive logistics of getting men, supplies, and information from Madrid to Holland. There was also the whole plan to conquer England.

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    I would say imposing your languages and religion on all of South and Central America, plus Mexico, is a pretty golden era.
     
    Not in terms of the arts and the sciences.
  88. @Truth
    "A generation" is only 20 years, Bro.

    You’re right, which is it would be easy to improve the developmental prospects of Africa or the social prospects of Black Americans.

    We could sterilise all except the cognitive top ten percent and create a new super smart race.

    Or we could tie contraceptive injections to welfare reception.

    Or we could encourage polygamy by the elites of the society.

    The effect in exams given to eleven year olds could be seen as quickly as the next eleven years and 9 months!

    There are a lot of eugenic policies which would give us quite quick results. Not all as hard to sell as those above.

    We could have a falling top rate of tax for each additional child an earner has.

    We could make contraception freely available in alcohol shops and McDonald’s.

    We could develop a one dollar 3 month contraceptive injection with a disposable needle which a non-qualified individual can easily use…oh wait, the Gates foundation has already done this!

    If we don’t try to make a society eugenic, given the availability of contraception, I believe it will default to being dysgenic for intelligence.

    Read More
  89. @Truth
    "You’re taking us back to Truth’s vision of HBD, i.e., there are only three or four races, and everything is a permutation of those basic races."

    I think you misunderstand there, Pistol; It is not "Truth's" vision, it is "true" vision according to the vast majority of posters here.

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, "iodine" neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?

    Because no change is truly organic, is it?

    If by posters you mean commenters, Peter is not responsible for their misconceptions and they are better informed after reading him, unless they fall back on ‘What is truth?’ type arguments.

    Read More
  90. @Truth
    "You’re taking us back to Truth’s vision of HBD, i.e., there are only three or four races, and everything is a permutation of those basic races."

    I think you misunderstand there, Pistol; It is not "Truth's" vision, it is "true" vision according to the vast majority of posters here.

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, "iodine" neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?

    Because no change is truly organic, is it?

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, “iodine” neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?

    Because no change is truly organic, is it?

    Again, Truth, try reading this:

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/the-breeders-equation/

    And, if you feel up for it, try reading this:

    The 10,000 Year Explosion: How Civilization Accelerated Human Evolution
    by Gregory Cochran , Henry Harpending

    http://www.amazon.com/The-000-Year-Explosion-Civilization/dp/0465020429

    Read More
  91. @Lot

    Even Spain’s Golden Age was not all that golden when you compare it to what was going on in the rest of Western Europe.
     
    I would say imposing your languages and religion on all of South and Central America, plus Mexico, is a pretty golden era.

    Like the USA with Vietnam and Iraq, Spain wasted the excess wealth in earned during its peak years with really stupid foreign wars, for example trying to keep modern Belgium and Netherlands part of the Spanish Kingdom was a very costly and bloody ordeal. Not just the lost lives, but the expensive logistics of getting men, supplies, and information from Madrid to Holland. There was also the whole plan to conquer England.

    I would say imposing your languages and religion on all of South and Central America, plus Mexico, is a pretty golden era.

    Not in terms of the arts and the sciences.

    Read More
  92. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Truth
    "A generation" is only 20 years, Bro.

    Yes, which is why if there were active measures to fix these problems (instead of ignoring them) then it wouldn’t take that long (in historical terms).

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  93. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Wizard of Oz
    No dispute about your point that Ethiopian Jews are what you would expect of ethnic Ethiopians (though that would be no certainty if one religious group had, for example an insistence on literacy or a cultural trait (e.g. wrt usury) that encourage trade and finance. However, would you care to address my speculation that having to look too far to find mates could mean having to marry the very stupid or not marry at all?

    I’d imagine groups in that situation would need to create a culture where the women have very large numbers of children.

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  94. The Igbo, before colonialism, were overwhelmingly, if not entirely rural, most of them living in communal villages, and Igbo-Ukwu had been abandoned for centuries. The Yoruba, Benin, Hausa, Kanuri, Nupe, and many others were all urbanized in some degree, and the Yoruba and Benin also had a far greater artistic output than the Igbo.

    Everything you say about the Igbo could be said about the Ashkenazi Jews. The latter lived dispersed throughout Eastern Europe, often in little villages. They did not have a single unitary state that could subsidize the building of palaces and monuments, as was the case with the Ottoman Empire. Nonetheless, the average Jew was much more talented than the average Turk.

    The Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa kingdoms arose relatively late in time and in response to the inflow of wealth created by the slave trade. This wealth gave chieftains the means to hire artisans and soldiers and thereby create centralized states that gradually expanded over larger and larger areas. They were thus able to recruit talented people over a much larger area (or capture them in raids on other peoples). This was not the case with Igbo communities.

    It is not “Truth’s” vision, it is “true” vision according to the vast majority of posters here.

    When I talk about HBD researchers, I’m not talking about anonymous posters. I’m talking about people who assume ownership of their ideas, people like Greg Cochran, Henry Harpending, John Hawks, and Gregory Clark. There’s also Steve Sailer who has done a lot to popularize HBD thinking in layman’s language.

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, “iodine” neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?

    Through natural selection. Successful traders tended to live longer and have larger families than unsuccessful ones. It’s not a stretch to assume that success reflects certain mental traits, and the heritability of most mental traits is about 0.4 plus or minus 0.2 (Bailey’s law).

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    "Everything you say about the Igbo could be said about the Ashkenazi Jews. The latter lived dispersed throughout Eastern Europe, often in little villages. They did not have a single unitary state that could subsidize the building of palaces and monuments, as was the case with the Ottoman Empire. Nonetheless, the average Jew was much more talented than the average Turk."

    But the difference here is that the Igbo were completely illiterate (although they did have a rudimentary proto-script that was developed indigenously) and were in just about every regard less advanced than the other groups. They aren't very inbred either. All they really had was the fact they were traders, and this in a pre-literate environment apparently elevated them so much. I don't deny that the Igbo do seem more intelligent, but I think what this might lend credence to is the idea that the histories of "middleman minorities" and the supposed selection pressures behind their creation are overrated, and such things are more likely due to what amounts to genetic drift. I just don't see what them being illiterate traders was bound to make them smarter than people who's artistic, social, and technological achievements were far greater.

    There is also a paper from several years ago that heavily criticizes Cochran and Harpending's work on the Ashkenazi, and I'm not aware of them actually replying to it: http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/sites/fasn/files/How%20Jews%20Became%20Smart%20%282008%29.pdf

    "The Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa kingdoms arose relatively late in time and in response to the inflow of wealth created by the slave trade. This wealth gave chieftains the means to hire artisans and soldiers and thereby create centralized states that gradually expanded over larger and larger areas. They were thus able to recruit talented people over a much larger area (or capture them in raids on other peoples). This was not the case with Igbo communities."

    No, they didn't. All of them predate the slave trade, the Yoruba and Benin predate the European slave trade by atleast a few centuries (and their foundations are just a few centuries later), Ile Ife's major artworks began around the beginning of the 14th century, the Hausa kingdoms predate the Nri, and there is again the fact Nigeria's earliest major culture, the Nok, are not ancestral to the Igbo and predate all the others by over 1,000 years. And I'm not sure what you mean by "recruiting talented people" or "capturing them in raids"- what people did they conquer that were more talented themselves? Who did they raid that gave them talented slaves?
  95. @Qasim
    I had left a similar comment on the Chisala article, but thought it might be useful to again note the recent post by Razib Khan which discussed genetic evidence of Nigerians having some DNA from Eurasian pastoralists that interbred with the local population thousands of years ago.

    Igbo often have skin tones and eye colors that are significantly lighter than the typical West African (for example see Andre Iguodala).

    It would seem that if genetic analysis shows that if the Igbo indeed do have more Eurasian DNA than other West Africans, their high achievement will end up supporting the hereditarian view rather than weakening it.

    Igbo often have skin tones and eye colors that are significantly lighter than the typical West African (for example see Andre Iguodala).

    This is nothing special. Africans as a whole have higher skin color diversity than other peoples, and don’t need any “Eurasian” admixture to explain why. That diversity is built-in. As scholars note:

    “Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. T
    his study examines regional differences in within-population
    diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin
    reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight
    geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe,
    West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the
    New World. Regional differences in local within-population
    diversity were examined using two measures of variability:
    the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation.
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits.”

    –Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.
    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.

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  96. High IQs or not, judging by the current state of the U.S. and Nigeria, neither Jews nor Igbos are very good at running nations, and Israel doesn’t count because it would fall apart without U.S. and European support, and it may do so anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    High IQ on its own is clearly not enough - what you need is IQ married to a sense of stewardship.
  97. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Honest Gabe
    High IQs or not, judging by the current state of the U.S. and Nigeria, neither Jews nor Igbos are very good at running nations, and Israel doesn't count because it would fall apart without U.S. and European support, and it may do so anyway.

    High IQ on its own is clearly not enough – what you need is IQ married to a sense of stewardship.

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  98. @Truth
    "A generation" is only 20 years, Bro.

    ““A generation” is only 20 years, Bro.”

    With blacks it’s about 15 years…Bro!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    With blacks it’s about 15 years…Bro!
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oShTJ90fC34
  99. While this is certainly interesting, one still has to ask why a place like Nigeria is so poor (and from my personal experience Lagos is a terrible city). I know that countries like South Korea and China were dirt poor not that long ago, but both their histories indicate that they had great potential, in the past they produced literature, technical innovations and other such things. Looking at the history of West Africa I see almost nothing to indicate any such potentiality. If these Igbos are truly the elite of Africa when are we going to see some of them being in the top 10 of chess players, or winning the Fields Medal or the Nobel Physics prizes ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    1) It's all relative - a mean of 85 is better than a mean of 70 but it's still 85.

    2) If an elite has no sense of stewardship or commonweal - which is the general case - then the high IQ group just uses their IQ to extract benefit for themselves.

    3) Nigeria isn't homogenous. If the tribes had been separated into their own separate nations any differences would be more obvious.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    Peter never said they were any "elite" of Africa per se. They are an example of a people who drawing on indigenous cultural elements (from metalwork, to trading, etc), adapted more quickly to modern Western education, and now today, reap the advantages. The Scots likewise adapted more quickly than others through centuries of adaptation to the larger framework of British hegemony, and as a result of those centuries, show the advantages. The Igbo have not had the same adaptation time as the Scots, but still the general pattern shows itself.
  100. @Peter Frost
    If these numbers are mutable, YOU DO NOT HAVE HUMAN BIODIVERSITY you have “human lottodiversity” The entire point is that these numbers, no matter what you do, cannot be changed at all

    They are mutable, in the sense that the average mental makeup of a population can change over short spans of historic time. This is one of the key points of HBD writers like Greg Cochran, John Hawks, and Gregory Clark. There is no reason to believe that the Igbo have been shackled to an unchanging Africa-wide mean IQ. With sufficiently strong selection, their mean IQ would have steadily risen from one generation to the next.

    Truth, you've been commenting on these blogs for some time now. How is it that you have such a flawed understanding of HBD? At the very least, you must have read the Conclusion of my article.

    The average Ethiopian is far smarter than the average westerner, based on my personal observation. There are no welfare programs in Ethiopia, so they have to hustle to survive, which sharpens the intellect.

    In Ethiopia, layabouts sponge off their wives and other family members. It doesn't really pay to be successful in Ethiopia because everybody and his cousin will descend on you like a plague of locusts.

    Welfare programs are relatively recent in Western countries, essentially postwar (there was "relief" during the Great Depression, but it was a pittance). I believe in fast evolution but you're pushing things a bit.

    It would seem that if genetic analysis shows that if the Igbo indeed do have more Eurasian DNA than other West Africans

    I would be very surprised if the Igbo have more Eurasian admixture than other Nigerians. The data I've seen show the highest admixture in the north of the country, among the Hausa and the Fulani. The latter in particular are often very North African in appearance.
    https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f9/30/9d/f9309dd0c3a04c71f387acbaaf7dddd2.jpg

    You're taking us back to Truth's vision of HBD, i.e., there are only three or four races, and everything is a permutation of those basic races.

    I’d also be skeptical of your “weak community identity” theory.

    Igbos originally had a weak sense of collective identity as Igbos. That's something that developed as they emigrated into non-Igbo areas. Even today, they think more in terms of family or lineage than ethnic identity.

    One final question: every Boko Haram explanation I’ve seen insists upon the dispossession of Nigerian Muslims from politics and the economy as a reason for the movement’s appeal.

    That's utter nonsense. Muslims are very dominant in Nigerian politics. As for the economy, most Muslim Nigerians simply don't think in terms of entrepreneurship. They don't see wealth as something to be created, but rather as something to be transferred.

    Is Frost trying to leap from a comparison of the behaviors of Igbo and a name attached to them in the colonial era as being “the Jews of West Africa” to a genetic relationship to “Jews” that is responsible for that behavior?

    Please call me "Peter." I'm not sure I fully understand your question. I'm not saying that the Igbo have Jewish ancestry. Nor am I saying their history is completely analogous to that of the Jewish people. It looks like they initially developed as a trade-oriented people within their homeland in the Niger Delta. This situation favored individuals who had certain mental traits: future time orientation, sense of initiative, ability to budget resources over space and time, transactional and symbolic thinking, etc.

    With the arrival of colonialism, it became possible for them to migrate into non-Igbo territories, where the advantages of this mental package were greatly magnified. They were able to dominate any niche that required higher cognitive abilities.

    “without me, you are nothing” is a message which is hardly ever received with gratitude

    I agree. Most Igbo keep a low profile because they are afraid of hostility from the non-Igbo majority. There are also lingering memories of the Igbo coup d'état that precipitated the Nigerian Civil War. But what else is there for Nigeria? If the Igbo won't become the economic elite, who will? The Hausa? That will take several generations of cultural and genetic change. Unfortunately, Nigeria needs economic leadership now.

    Peter, thank you for replying to my post. (although comparing me to Truth is very insulting! :))

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not? Of course this basic division in no way denies the possibility of significant variation within a race, but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If “being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples” leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement. Has this phenomenon been documented?

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide).

    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dipwill
    "Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!"

    That isn't the standard belief, and Peter doesn't believe it. He thinks it's secondary- personally, I don't think it had any effect.

    "And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide)."

    On top of this, I'm pretty sure I've heard of metal smelting in other areas in west africa at early times, in places much further north, and the sahel region experienced the earliest urbanization in west africa, well before Islam, which I would consider to be more noteworthy than basic metal smelting (which they likely had). There is also primitive steel from 2,000 years ago in Tanzania. But yes, what this argument does come down to with metal smelting is that they've always been smarter, which doesn't readily make much sense, and that this was the difference that allowed them to develop it, making them apparently far smarter even back then. Really?

    "And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly."

    It's not a stereotype, it's true, a large number of them are remarkably light, about as light as american mulattos or the khoisan. Nobody really knows why, and there is no evidence they are mixed. There is no genetic evidence, and their other physical features are no different from other west africans.

    , @anon
    There are metal working castes in Africa. If the people who first made up those castes were above average IQ then if they remained endogamous (or only admitted individuals from the surrounding population who were from the right half of the local bell curve) then they could stay that way.

    The Igbo thing (if it exists) might not be Igbo but sub-groups within for similar reasons.
    , @Truth

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD
     
    Hey Pete, I see why you compared HIM to ME. I guess I'm not the only one who "just doesn't get it!"



    All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

     

    LOL! Nice Hammer, Dawg, but I hear other tools are still marked down at Home Depot for the Fourth.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don't use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians? Now go through some dubious contortions to try to shoehorn them into one of your "standing" categories.. lol

    .
    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    And this "standard belief " has been pretty much debunked by credible scholarship.

    Evolution, brain size, and the national IQ of peoples ... - Jelte Wicherts 2010
    http://wicherts.socsci.uva.nl/wichertsPAIDrejoinder.pdf

    http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2014/03/hbd-heriditarian-race-reality-claims.html

    www.anth.uconn.edu/faculty/mcbrearty/Pdf/McB%20&%20Brooks%202000%20TRTW.pdf

    .
    then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    Actually there are several peoples (see Sierra Leone for example) who have attained high levels of educational achievement in their local societies. However many people from these groups however have not migrated out to the extent of the Igbo, so test measures from the UK are not available on them, but they like the Igbo, show early adoption to modern Western education, which yields enduring advantages on assorted modern tests. This is indeed a common pattern not only in Africa but elsewhere. Scotland, once a backwater, adapted to British hegemony over many centuries, with fulsome benefit and achievement for the Scots, through their centuries of association with a larger hegemon's framework. Scots went on for example to do well in the educational system of Britain over the centuries.

    .
    Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?
    Actually this is one of the LEAST parsimonious conclusions. "Time immemorial" would cover all data up to the present era, hardly a "parsimonious" way of doing things. Peter's argument is reasonable in the sense that elements of the Igbo culture, coalesced and found linkages with the incoming British culture that enabled more rapid adaptation to the modern industrial era, and its educational structures.

    .
    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    Actually credible scholarship already quoted (Relethford 2000, et al) has already debunked and dismissed your obsolete "white blood" theory. Igbo variation in skin color is nothing special- it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called 'Red" Igbo, to numerous other variants in between. Such variation is nothing new, and nothing special in Africa.

    “Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. T
    his study examines regional differences in within-population
    diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin
    reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight
    geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe,
    West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the
    New World. Regional differences in local within-population
    diversity were examined using two measures of variability:
    the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation.
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits.”
    –Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.

    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.

  101. @FirstPerson
    "There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks."

    You obviously have not seen much of Yoruba artwork or read the studies on it.

    I wouldn’t bother replying to him further, I realized he’s an Igbo nationalist who doesn’t like anything disparaging being said about his group. He thinks the reason Yoruba art is considered so advanced is because of how prominent Yoruba culture is in new world slaves and that they’re just the best studied and so there’s no real basis for their art being considered worthwhile, and he not only thinks the Igbo “pyramids” are at all worth being mentioned in the same breath as the Egyptian ones, but that they’re “strikingly similar”. He’s clearly trying to draw a link with the Igbo having heritage with the Ancient Egyptians when, aside from trade, I don’t think there’s much at all, especially if he thinks the Igbo pyramids (which are really just stacks of mud) are comparable to the Egyptian ones.

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  102. @Peter Frost
    The Igbo, before colonialism, were overwhelmingly, if not entirely rural, most of them living in communal villages, and Igbo-Ukwu had been abandoned for centuries. The Yoruba, Benin, Hausa, Kanuri, Nupe, and many others were all urbanized in some degree, and the Yoruba and Benin also had a far greater artistic output than the Igbo.

    Everything you say about the Igbo could be said about the Ashkenazi Jews. The latter lived dispersed throughout Eastern Europe, often in little villages. They did not have a single unitary state that could subsidize the building of palaces and monuments, as was the case with the Ottoman Empire. Nonetheless, the average Jew was much more talented than the average Turk.

    The Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa kingdoms arose relatively late in time and in response to the inflow of wealth created by the slave trade. This wealth gave chieftains the means to hire artisans and soldiers and thereby create centralized states that gradually expanded over larger and larger areas. They were thus able to recruit talented people over a much larger area (or capture them in raids on other peoples). This was not the case with Igbo communities.

    It is not “Truth’s” vision, it is “true” vision according to the vast majority of posters here.

    When I talk about HBD researchers, I'm not talking about anonymous posters. I'm talking about people who assume ownership of their ideas, people like Greg Cochran, Henry Harpending, John Hawks, and Gregory Clark. There's also Steve Sailer who has done a lot to popularize HBD thinking in layman's language.

    So the question becomes, if IQ is mutable, and self mutable at that without use of drugs, “iodine” neurosurgery, or anything else, how did the Igbos do it?


    Through natural selection. Successful traders tended to live longer and have larger families than unsuccessful ones. It's not a stretch to assume that success reflects certain mental traits, and the heritability of most mental traits is about 0.4 plus or minus 0.2 (Bailey's law).

    “Everything you say about the Igbo could be said about the Ashkenazi Jews. The latter lived dispersed throughout Eastern Europe, often in little villages. They did not have a single unitary state that could subsidize the building of palaces and monuments, as was the case with the Ottoman Empire. Nonetheless, the average Jew was much more talented than the average Turk.”

    But the difference here is that the Igbo were completely illiterate (although they did have a rudimentary proto-script that was developed indigenously) and were in just about every regard less advanced than the other groups. They aren’t very inbred either. All they really had was the fact they were traders, and this in a pre-literate environment apparently elevated them so much. I don’t deny that the Igbo do seem more intelligent, but I think what this might lend credence to is the idea that the histories of “middleman minorities” and the supposed selection pressures behind their creation are overrated, and such things are more likely due to what amounts to genetic drift. I just don’t see what them being illiterate traders was bound to make them smarter than people who’s artistic, social, and technological achievements were far greater.

    There is also a paper from several years ago that heavily criticizes Cochran and Harpending’s work on the Ashkenazi, and I’m not aware of them actually replying to it: http://www.ncas.rutgers.edu/sites/fasn/files/How%20Jews%20Became%20Smart%20%282008%29.pdf

    “The Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa kingdoms arose relatively late in time and in response to the inflow of wealth created by the slave trade. This wealth gave chieftains the means to hire artisans and soldiers and thereby create centralized states that gradually expanded over larger and larger areas. They were thus able to recruit talented people over a much larger area (or capture them in raids on other peoples). This was not the case with Igbo communities.”

    No, they didn’t. All of them predate the slave trade, the Yoruba and Benin predate the European slave trade by atleast a few centuries (and their foundations are just a few centuries later), Ile Ife’s major artworks began around the beginning of the 14th century, the Hausa kingdoms predate the Nri, and there is again the fact Nigeria’s earliest major culture, the Nok, are not ancestral to the Igbo and predate all the others by over 1,000 years. And I’m not sure what you mean by “recruiting talented people” or “capturing them in raids”- what people did they conquer that were more talented themselves? Who did they raid that gave them talented slaves?

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  103. @Qasim
    Peter, thank you for replying to my post. (although comparing me to Truth is very insulting! :))

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not? Of course this basic division in no way denies the possibility of significant variation within a race, but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If "being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples" leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement. Has this phenomenon been documented?

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn't is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide).

    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    “Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!”

    That isn’t the standard belief, and Peter doesn’t believe it. He thinks it’s secondary- personally, I don’t think it had any effect.

    “And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide).”

    On top of this, I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of metal smelting in other areas in west africa at early times, in places much further north, and the sahel region experienced the earliest urbanization in west africa, well before Islam, which I would consider to be more noteworthy than basic metal smelting (which they likely had). There is also primitive steel from 2,000 years ago in Tanzania. But yes, what this argument does come down to with metal smelting is that they’ve always been smarter, which doesn’t readily make much sense, and that this was the difference that allowed them to develop it, making them apparently far smarter even back then. Really?

    “And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.”

    It’s not a stereotype, it’s true, a large number of them are remarkably light, about as light as american mulattos or the khoisan. Nobody really knows why, and there is no evidence they are mixed. There is no genetic evidence, and their other physical features are no different from other west africans.

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  104. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @neutral
    While this is certainly interesting, one still has to ask why a place like Nigeria is so poor (and from my personal experience Lagos is a terrible city). I know that countries like South Korea and China were dirt poor not that long ago, but both their histories indicate that they had great potential, in the past they produced literature, technical innovations and other such things. Looking at the history of West Africa I see almost nothing to indicate any such potentiality. If these Igbos are truly the elite of Africa when are we going to see some of them being in the top 10 of chess players, or winning the Fields Medal or the Nobel Physics prizes ?

    1) It’s all relative – a mean of 85 is better than a mean of 70 but it’s still 85.

    2) If an elite has no sense of stewardship or commonweal – which is the general case – then the high IQ group just uses their IQ to extract benefit for themselves.

    3) Nigeria isn’t homogenous. If the tribes had been separated into their own separate nations any differences would be more obvious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dipwill
    "1) It’s all relative – a mean of 85 is better than a mean of 70 but it’s still 85."

    Uh huh. There's no way Nigeria's IQ is 70, or that the Igbo are no more intelligent than african-americans.
  105. @anon
    1) It's all relative - a mean of 85 is better than a mean of 70 but it's still 85.

    2) If an elite has no sense of stewardship or commonweal - which is the general case - then the high IQ group just uses their IQ to extract benefit for themselves.

    3) Nigeria isn't homogenous. If the tribes had been separated into their own separate nations any differences would be more obvious.

    “1) It’s all relative – a mean of 85 is better than a mean of 70 but it’s still 85.”

    Uh huh. There’s no way Nigeria’s IQ is 70, or that the Igbo are no more intelligent than african-americans.

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    • Replies: @anon
    The numbers were just for illustration - the point is it's all relative so if a population y has a higher mean IQ than population x it doesn't follow that they must have the same achievements as a population with a mean of z.
  106. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Qasim
    Peter, thank you for replying to my post. (although comparing me to Truth is very insulting! :))

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not? Of course this basic division in no way denies the possibility of significant variation within a race, but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If "being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples" leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement. Has this phenomenon been documented?

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn't is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide).

    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    There are metal working castes in Africa. If the people who first made up those castes were above average IQ then if they remained endogamous (or only admitted individuals from the surrounding population who were from the right half of the local bell curve) then they could stay that way.

    The Igbo thing (if it exists) might not be Igbo but sub-groups within for similar reasons.

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  107. I have no reason in principle to doubt that the Igbo are distinctly higher in IQ than other sub-Saharan Africans, or even that they do as well as better on that measure than the average white in England.

    But here’s my problem with that idea (which always is the problem with claims that, say, a group of sub-Saharan ancestry is at or near the average IQ for some white population): we never see individuals from this group show up in expected numbers at the higher ranges of cognitive ability when they are in standard Western environments.

    Here’s a quote from a comment elsewhere on unz.com that makes this point pretty clearly, starting out with a link to a document which mentions that the performance of blacks in England is far below that of whites on a standard cognitive test applied to all medical students in England:

    http://www.ukcat.ac.uk/App_Media/uploads/pdf/UKCAT%20Annual%20Report%20Final%20Low%20Res.pdf

    Standardized cognitive test administered annually to all medical students (not some dodgy power point put together in 5 minutes).

    Page 13

    UK White mean – 2737.96 with a standard deviation of 268.15
    UK Black mean – 2430.79

    Slightly more than a full standard deviation in cognitive means with a sufficiently representative national sample size.

    Where are the Igbo, or any of those of Subsaharan ancestry, in these numbers?

    It really is at the upper reaches of cognitive ability that it is easiest to detect differences across groups, because it is there that the bell curves show the greatest differentials at any given cutoff.

    In particular, it’s quite possible for a group to be selectively represented in a given environment (such as among those who are able and willing to immigrate to a western country), but the tails of the bell curve remain the same, so that very few turn up at the upper reaches. In fact, noting such behavior is a good sign of selection.

    Under such selective representation, it is indeed quite possible that the group being selected has a higher average performance than the white population, but the performance at the upper end will still be far below that of the white population. This may what is happening with the Igbo, or immigrants from Africa in general.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    Most blacks in the UK are Jamaican or some other caribbean. You go on about the highest levels with these groups, but what you cite doesn't differentiate any sub group.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    But here’s my problem with that idea (which always is the problem with claims that, say, a group of sub-Saharan ancestry is at or near the average IQ for some white population)

    It depends on the white population being compared. In Lynn and Vanhaven's national IQ rankings, West Africans of Sierre Leone come out at number 16, higher than white Albania, Bosnia, Chile, Croatia, Turkey, Serbia, or white/"Caucasoid" Iraq, Kuwait, Columbia, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and most of the other Arab emirates.

    It also depends on the measuring device. Chisala's data does on fact show the Africans outperforming the white average on several counts, based on the instrument used, or making both relative and absolute gains. The usual objection to this is that the African immigrants were "selected" group- but all immigrants are to some extent a select group, including white Americans who are immigrants to that territory. Furthermore the Africans as Chisala shows labor under some language difficulties- they have no easy road - but yet on those measures still post above the white average. As for whites on the upper end, those at the upper end are themselves a "select" group, typically endowed with better educations, family backgrounds, better nutrition, more exposure to books, more affluence etc than others. So they too are beneficiaries of environmental "selection" and their test results reflect it.

    Chisala's data is also confirmed by other research, While genetics plays a part as all know, so too does environment. Per Nisbett al at 2012:


    We review new findings and new theoretical developments in the field of intelligence. New findings include the following: (a) Heritability of IQ varies significantly by social class. (b) Almost no genetic polymorphisms have been discovered that are consistently associated with variation in IQ in the normal range. (c) Much has been learned about the biological underpinnings of intelligence. (d) “Crystallized” and “fluid” IQ are quite different aspects of intelligence at both the behavioral and biological levels. (e) The importance of the environment for IQ is established by the 12-point to 18-point increase in IQ when children are adopted from working-class to middle-class homes. (f) Even when improvements in IQ produced by the most effective early childhood interventions fail to persist, there can be very marked effects on academic achievement and life outcomes. (g) In most developed countries studied, gains on IQ tests have continued, and they are beginning in the developing world. (h) Sex differences in aspects of intelligence are due partly to identifiable biological factors and partly to socialization factors. (i) The IQ gap between Blacks and Whites has been reduced by 0.33 SD in recent years.

    --Intelligence: new findings and theoretical developments.(Author abstract)(Report)
    The American psychologist [0003-066X] yr:2012 vol:67 iss:2 pg:130
     

  108. @candid_observer
    I have no reason in principle to doubt that the Igbo are distinctly higher in IQ than other sub-Saharan Africans, or even that they do as well as better on that measure than the average white in England.

    But here's my problem with that idea (which always is the problem with claims that, say, a group of sub-Saharan ancestry is at or near the average IQ for some white population): we never see individuals from this group show up in expected numbers at the higher ranges of cognitive ability when they are in standard Western environments.

    Here's a quote from a comment elsewhere on unz.com that makes this point pretty clearly, starting out with a link to a document which mentions that the performance of blacks in England is far below that of whites on a standard cognitive test applied to all medical students in England:


    http://www.ukcat.ac.uk/App_Media/uploads/pdf/UKCAT%20Annual%20Report%20Final%20Low%20Res.pdf

    Standardized cognitive test administered annually to all medical students (not some dodgy power point put together in 5 minutes).

    Page 13

    UK White mean – 2737.96 with a standard deviation of 268.15
    UK Black mean – 2430.79

    Slightly more than a full standard deviation in cognitive means with a sufficiently representative national sample size.
     

    Where are the Igbo, or any of those of Subsaharan ancestry, in these numbers?

    It really is at the upper reaches of cognitive ability that it is easiest to detect differences across groups, because it is there that the bell curves show the greatest differentials at any given cutoff.

    In particular, it's quite possible for a group to be selectively represented in a given environment (such as among those who are able and willing to immigrate to a western country), but the tails of the bell curve remain the same, so that very few turn up at the upper reaches. In fact, noting such behavior is a good sign of selection.

    Under such selective representation, it is indeed quite possible that the group being selected has a higher average performance than the white population, but the performance at the upper end will still be far below that of the white population. This may what is happening with the Igbo, or immigrants from Africa in general.

    Most blacks in the UK are Jamaican or some other caribbean. You go on about the highest levels with these groups, but what you cite doesn’t differentiate any sub group.

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Many people have claimed that blacks from the Caribbean are also among those who achieve better than, say, the typical African American whose ancestors were slaves, and there's some good evidence to support that claim.

    But your claim that most blacks in England are from the Carribean is false, according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_England

    In fact, as of 2011, 3.5% of the population in England is of African background, and 1.8% (more than half) is of African descent. There's no way consistent with the numbers that those of African background are doing comparably well with the whites in this cognitive test for medical students.

    If one were to assume that the results for the blacks and whites in this test each followed separate bell curves (admittedly not so likely, given the tails, but still probably a decent enough approximation for these purposes), then only 13% of blacks do as well as the average for whites.

    It's pretty hard to believe that disaggregating these numbers is going to make any particular black group look comparable to whites in performance on this test. Almost certainly those immigrating from Africa aren't as a group going to be able to do so, since they are already half of all blacks in England, and, again, only about 13% of blacks do as well as whites.
  109. “can hear the answer to my question: “You guys are the ones who think all blacks are alike!” Well, that isn’t what I think.

    On a final note, I couldn’t help noticing the many commenters who complimented Chanda on sticking it to the HBD crowd. Don’t they understand the logical contraposition? If it can be shown that some African groups have higher cognitive ability, doesn’t the converse become plausible and even expectable?”

    1) The HBD crowd still bases most of its analyses on “blacks” v. “whites” v. “Asians.” United States test score gaps aren’t thought of in terms of which subgroups of “blacks” and “whites” perform well and which don’t. It’s just thought of in terms of “black” and “white.”

    Many of the conditions that seem to drive population differences certainly appear to be environmental. And it certainly seems like culture can take a small genetic or environmental difference and magnify it into something much more.

    For example, imagine two groups…group A happens to be near a piano and group B is nowhere near a piano and instead are near a flute. Group A’s first generation creates rudimentary finger technique. The second generation now has this knowledge to build on, and they build ever more sophisticated finger techniques. And so on and so on, until group A can play the piano with a high degree of technical proficiency through passing down knowledge (not any particular talent…because each generation didn’t add much).

    Group A gives group B, who have developed their own culture and knowledge base built around the flute., a piano. The first generation exposed to this will still grow up in an environment that is 99% devoted to the flute knowledge base. Successive generations will slowly shift in proportion of norms followed flute-piano, but it will take a long time. But the gulf of difference between the groups came as the result of a chance, trivial difference to start with.

    2) I’m not sure that there’s anyone who disagrees with the notion that “different groups perform differently on IQ tests.” The only disagreement stems from the cause of those differences.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bad Memories
    Congratulations. You have just reinvented a wonderland where simply exposing a group of people to nuclear reactors will enable them to build one in a couple of generations.

    Pity it has nothing to do with reality.
  110. @Dipwill
    Most blacks in the UK are Jamaican or some other caribbean. You go on about the highest levels with these groups, but what you cite doesn't differentiate any sub group.

    Many people have claimed that blacks from the Caribbean are also among those who achieve better than, say, the typical African American whose ancestors were slaves, and there’s some good evidence to support that claim.

    But your claim that most blacks in England are from the Carribean is false, according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_England

    In fact, as of 2011, 3.5% of the population in England is of African background, and 1.8% (more than half) is of African descent. There’s no way consistent with the numbers that those of African background are doing comparably well with the whites in this cognitive test for medical students.

    If one were to assume that the results for the blacks and whites in this test each followed separate bell curves (admittedly not so likely, given the tails, but still probably a decent enough approximation for these purposes), then only 13% of blacks do as well as the average for whites.

    It’s pretty hard to believe that disaggregating these numbers is going to make any particular black group look comparable to whites in performance on this test. Almost certainly those immigrating from Africa aren’t as a group going to be able to do so, since they are already half of all blacks in England, and, again, only about 13% of blacks do as well as whites.

    Read More
    • Replies: @candid_observer
    I meant,

    In fact, as of 2011, 3.5% of the population in England is black, and 1.8% (more than half) is of African background.
    , @Dipwill
    People who make that argument, from what I've seen, mainly focus on america with Jamaicans, and it's true they do better than african-americans, but not substantially so, though I do think their IQ's are higher. With the British, I stand somewhat corrected, but it doesn't change the fact that a large number, possibly close to half are of carribean origin. I went ahead and looked at the Nigerian British page, and found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nigerian#Education

    You focusing exclusively on medical exam rates that don't break down by country of origin probably isn't as informative as you think.
  111. @candid_observer
    Many people have claimed that blacks from the Caribbean are also among those who achieve better than, say, the typical African American whose ancestors were slaves, and there's some good evidence to support that claim.

    But your claim that most blacks in England are from the Carribean is false, according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_England

    In fact, as of 2011, 3.5% of the population in England is of African background, and 1.8% (more than half) is of African descent. There's no way consistent with the numbers that those of African background are doing comparably well with the whites in this cognitive test for medical students.

    If one were to assume that the results for the blacks and whites in this test each followed separate bell curves (admittedly not so likely, given the tails, but still probably a decent enough approximation for these purposes), then only 13% of blacks do as well as the average for whites.

    It's pretty hard to believe that disaggregating these numbers is going to make any particular black group look comparable to whites in performance on this test. Almost certainly those immigrating from Africa aren't as a group going to be able to do so, since they are already half of all blacks in England, and, again, only about 13% of blacks do as well as whites.

    I meant,

    In fact, as of 2011, 3.5% of the population in England is black, and 1.8% (more than half) is of African background.

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  112. @swank
    "can hear the answer to my question: “You guys are the ones who think all blacks are alike!” Well, that isn’t what I think.

    On a final note, I couldn’t help noticing the many commenters who complimented Chanda on sticking it to the HBD crowd. Don’t they understand the logical contraposition? If it can be shown that some African groups have higher cognitive ability, doesn’t the converse become plausible and even expectable?"

    1) The HBD crowd still bases most of its analyses on "blacks" v. "whites" v. "Asians." United States test score gaps aren't thought of in terms of which subgroups of "blacks" and "whites" perform well and which don't. It's just thought of in terms of "black" and "white."

    Many of the conditions that seem to drive population differences certainly appear to be environmental. And it certainly seems like culture can take a small genetic or environmental difference and magnify it into something much more.

    For example, imagine two groups...group A happens to be near a piano and group B is nowhere near a piano and instead are near a flute. Group A's first generation creates rudimentary finger technique. The second generation now has this knowledge to build on, and they build ever more sophisticated finger techniques. And so on and so on, until group A can play the piano with a high degree of technical proficiency through passing down knowledge (not any particular talent...because each generation didn't add much).

    Group A gives group B, who have developed their own culture and knowledge base built around the flute., a piano. The first generation exposed to this will still grow up in an environment that is 99% devoted to the flute knowledge base. Successive generations will slowly shift in proportion of norms followed flute-piano, but it will take a long time. But the gulf of difference between the groups came as the result of a chance, trivial difference to start with.

    2) I'm not sure that there's anyone who disagrees with the notion that "different groups perform differently on IQ tests." The only disagreement stems from the cause of those differences.

    Congratulations. You have just reinvented a wonderland where simply exposing a group of people to nuclear reactors will enable them to build one in a couple of generations.

    Pity it has nothing to do with reality.

    Read More
    • Replies: @swank
    "You have just reinvented a wonderland where simply exposing a group of people to nuclear reactors will enable them to build one in a couple of generations."

    Actually, the example suggested that it could take many generations. And it's more about giving the people the piano + group A's knowledge of the piano; group A's knowledge and norms will still compete with B's knowledge and norms for a long time.

    "Pity it has nothing to do with reality."

    Are phenomena like the FE unreal, now? The first generation of commoners exposed to the elite's method of approaching problems probably didn't gain much. Over time, however, it seemed to add up.
  113. @candid_observer
    Many people have claimed that blacks from the Caribbean are also among those who achieve better than, say, the typical African American whose ancestors were slaves, and there's some good evidence to support that claim.

    But your claim that most blacks in England are from the Carribean is false, according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_England

    In fact, as of 2011, 3.5% of the population in England is of African background, and 1.8% (more than half) is of African descent. There's no way consistent with the numbers that those of African background are doing comparably well with the whites in this cognitive test for medical students.

    If one were to assume that the results for the blacks and whites in this test each followed separate bell curves (admittedly not so likely, given the tails, but still probably a decent enough approximation for these purposes), then only 13% of blacks do as well as the average for whites.

    It's pretty hard to believe that disaggregating these numbers is going to make any particular black group look comparable to whites in performance on this test. Almost certainly those immigrating from Africa aren't as a group going to be able to do so, since they are already half of all blacks in England, and, again, only about 13% of blacks do as well as whites.

    People who make that argument, from what I’ve seen, mainly focus on america with Jamaicans, and it’s true they do better than african-americans, but not substantially so, though I do think their IQ’s are higher. With the British, I stand somewhat corrected, but it doesn’t change the fact that a large number, possibly close to half are of carribean origin. I went ahead and looked at the Nigerian British page, and found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nigerian#Education

    You focusing exclusively on medical exam rates that don’t break down by country of origin probably isn’t as informative as you think.

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  114. @Bad Memories
    Congratulations. You have just reinvented a wonderland where simply exposing a group of people to nuclear reactors will enable them to build one in a couple of generations.

    Pity it has nothing to do with reality.

    “You have just reinvented a wonderland where simply exposing a group of people to nuclear reactors will enable them to build one in a couple of generations.”

    Actually, the example suggested that it could take many generations. And it’s more about giving the people the piano + group A’s knowledge of the piano; group A’s knowledge and norms will still compete with B’s knowledge and norms for a long time.

    “Pity it has nothing to do with reality.”

    Are phenomena like the FE unreal, now? The first generation of commoners exposed to the elite’s method of approaching problems probably didn’t gain much. Over time, however, it seemed to add up.

    Read More
  115. @Bbc
    The different tribes of Nigeria.

    from this thread.
    Can You Tell A Nigerian By Their Face?
    http://www.nairaland.com/142474/tell-nigerian-face/1

    a comment.

    "from what i've seen

    Igbo- Big heads, dominate facial features, often lighter skinned then average west african, over dressed or well dressed, good looking, slim, mainly western attire in and out of nigeria, skin often has a bunch of different colors on different spots.

    yoruba- dark, round eyes large eyes, ugly lol

    hausa- tall dark, toned down facial features (smaller noses smaller eyes smaller lips), skin is usually 1 soild color all over, either really good looking are supremely ugly

    ogoni- SHORT, stalky, like shrunken igbo, HUGE heads, epically pushed back hair lines,

    that's all i know."

    So the traits that people often describe igbos by, is their big heads.

    The only study I’ve ever read about it disagrees with your view. Igbos have smaller cranial capacity that Northwest tribes.
    See: http://docsdrive.com/pdfs/ansinet/jas/0000/22741-22741.pdf

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    • Replies: @Bbc
    Not my view, I was pointing out something frequently said on the Nigerian forum.
  116. @Realist
    "“A generation” is only 20 years, Bro."

    With blacks it's about 15 years...Bro!

    With blacks it’s about 15 years…Bro!

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  117. @Qasim
    Peter, thank you for replying to my post. (although comparing me to Truth is very insulting! :))

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not? Of course this basic division in no way denies the possibility of significant variation within a race, but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If "being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples" leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement. Has this phenomenon been documented?

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn't is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide).

    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD

    Hey Pete, I see why you compared HIM to ME. I guess I’m not the only one who “just doesn’t get it!”

    All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    LOL! Nice Hammer, Dawg, but I hear other tools are still marked down at Home Depot for the Fourth.

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    • Replies: @vinteuil
    Truth, before you go on making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, you might want to check out Qasim's posting history.

    Just out of (very mild) curiosity - who is it, exactly, that you have in mind when you make these bizarre claims about what commenters on this site believe? (i.e.: there are 3 or 4 races, they are natural kinds, and their characteristics are immutable.)

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?
  118. As another data p0int, consider the Twin Cities region in Minnesota, which seems to have a large number of Nigerians these days.

    Here’s a list of the National Merit Scholarship semifinalists in that area (I think it covers the neighborhoods in which the Nigerians mostly reside, but someone who knows the area better might confirm or deny):

    http://www.twincities.com/education/ci_26569064/national-merit-semifinalists-from-north-and-east-metro

    If there are any Nigerians among these names, it’s certainly not obvious to me — certainly there numbers would have to be pretty low no matter how generously such names might be interpreted.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    Wikipedia says there's under 7,000 Nigerians in all of Minnesota, which is far smaller than most other states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_American#US_states_with_largest_Nigerian_populations
    , @Ed
    There aren't that many Nigerians in Minnesota. Houston or DC suburbs of MD are probably a better place to look.
    , @FirstPerson
    The African immigrants (and their children) that live in Minnesota are overwhelmingly from Somalia, not Nigeria. Bad example. Instead of claiming that a place seems to have a"high number of Nigerians these days" why not actually check whether or not that's actually true?
  119. @Truth
    "A generation" is only 20 years, Bro.

    “A generation” is only 20 years, Bro.

    Cochran disagrees:

    Second, about dates: they assume a mutation rate of 1.44 x 10-8 per generation, and a generation length of 25 years. I think both of those are a little off. All the directly-measured whole-genome rates are between 0.96×10−8 and 1.20×10−8: I wouldn’t go higher than 1.20 x 10-8 per generation, with what I know now. In the course of looking at paternal age effects, I also checked out the known data on average generation lengths. In no known population is it as short as 25 years: never less than 28 for females, and almost always longer than 28 for males, usually in the 30s. 30 is a much more reasonable generation length than 25.

    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/ashkenazi-ancestry-revisited/

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  120. @Vendetta
    Real pity everyone sided with Nigeria back against Biafra. Igbo industriousness and intelligence plus oil wealth would almost surely have made it the most prosperous black state in Africa. It's important to read beyond compilations of exam scores as well to get an understanding of them. There's some good accounts of the Biafran War out there about the besieged Igbos rigging up makeshift generators and refineries out in the jungle once the cities had been bombed. They are resourceful people who make things happen.

    I'd also be skeptical of your "weak community identity" theory. They do seem to be a people of large extended clan families, and the sheer degree of sacrifice they were willing to put themselves through in the Biafran war seem to indicate otherwise.

    I'm almost reminded of the Japanese, actually, in how they fought a hopeless war to the bitter end and then just put it behind them and moved on after they lost so grievously. The atrocities the Nigerians carried out against the Igbos are orders of magnitude worse than those that say, the Israelis and Palestinians ever inflicted on one another. Yet there's been no Igbo insurgency, no die-hard hatred of the rest of Nigeria, and trying to secede again remains a fringe idea among them. Even Ojukwu, the leader of the rebellion, returned from exile to Nigerian politics a couple decades later. The lack of bitterness is remarkable. If a group of people anywhere in the 20th century deserved their independence, it was the Igbo.

    One final question: every Boko Haram explanation I've seen insists upon the dispossession of Nigerian Muslims from politics and the economy as a reason for the movement's appeal. But the Igbos too are dispossessed and excluded, so who the Hell actually is running Nigeria? The Yoruba and the minor tribes? Or are the Hausa-Fulani Muslims elites still running the place but simply leaving their own people out to dry?

    My impression is that the Muslim elites control the military while the wealth-generating industries are Christian.

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  121. @candid_observer
    As another data p0int, consider the Twin Cities region in Minnesota, which seems to have a large number of Nigerians these days.

    Here's a list of the National Merit Scholarship semifinalists in that area (I think it covers the neighborhoods in which the Nigerians mostly reside, but someone who knows the area better might confirm or deny):

    http://www.twincities.com/education/ci_26569064/national-merit-semifinalists-from-north-and-east-metro

    If there are any Nigerians among these names, it's certainly not obvious to me -- certainly there numbers would have to be pretty low no matter how generously such names might be interpreted.

    Wikipedia says there’s under 7,000 Nigerians in all of Minnesota, which is far smaller than most other states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_American#US_states_with_largest_Nigerian_populations

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  122. You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not?

    The term HBD was coined in the late 1990s for a discussion group headed by Steve Sailer. It was an eclectic group so it’s difficult to generalize, but the dominant tendency was the Cochran-Harpending-Hawks school of accelerated gene-culture co-evolution. In short, genetic evolution didn’t stop in our species with the rise of cultural evolution. It actually accelerated, since culture became part of our adaptive landscape. So human evolution is ongoing and not something that ground to a halt back in Paleolithic, when the major human races emerged.

    Phil Rushton was a member of that group, but his theorizing was never the majority thinking. Although he became a harsh critic of evolutionary psychology, his views were influenced by many EP dogmas, including the belief that complex mental traits change very slowly and only over eons of evolutionary time.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    That’s part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn’t congeal into a final form at any one point in time.

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If “being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples” leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    It wasn’t so much “my” explanation as the standard one. Historically, Igbo trade seems to be related to their position at the mouth of the Niger River and the ability to use the Niger as a route into the Sahel and thence to North Africa and the Middle East. There are no “similar geographic circumstances” so it’s difficult to test this explanation.

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?

    I’m not sure why that would be more parsimonious (perhaps closer to your way of thinking ;-). I don’t attach too much importance to smelting in itself. What is striking is large-scale smelting that exceeds local needs, which comes later in time. That’s evidence of production for trade.

    But the difference here is that the Igbo were completely illiterate (although they did have a rudimentary proto-script that was developed indigenously)

    They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It’s a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond.

    and were in just about every regard less advanced than the other groups.

    Uh, no. There really wasn’t anything comparable in West Africa in the 9th century. Or are you still challenging that dating?

    No, they didn’t. All of them predate the slave trade, the Yoruba and Benin predate the European slave trade by at least a few centuries (and their foundations are just a few centuries later), Ile Ife’s major artworks began around the beginning of the 14th century, the Hausa kingdoms predate the Nri, and there is again the fact Nigeria’s earliest major culture, the Nok, are not ancestral to the Igbo and predate all the others by over 1,000 years.

    You’re pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn’t emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn’t really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    The Nok culture died out around 300 AD. If it had survived continuously into the present, we might be arguing why the Nok people are so much more successful than the Igbo. But they didn’t survive.

    Finally, when I wrote “the slave trade” I wasn’t referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East.

    And I’m not sure what you mean by “recruiting talented people” or “capturing them in raids”- what people did they conquer that were more talented themselves? Who did they raid that gave them talented slaves?

    If a State A has three times the land area of State B, it can recruit three times as many talented people even if the mean IQ is identical for both states.

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    • Replies: @Dipwill
    "I’m not sure why that would be more parsimonious (perhaps closer to your way of thinking ;-). I don’t attach too much importance to smelting in itself. What is striking is large-scale smelting that exceeds local needs, which comes later in time. That’s evidence of production for trade."

    So were the Igbo smelting iron in scales that exceeded local needs?

    "They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It’s a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond."

    That's true, but if we're trying to gauge their intellect based on their achievements, the Igbo are not particularly good examples. You focus on their supposed early use of metal smelting and their status as traders, but compared to just how much the other groups accomplished, is their status as pre-literate traders really a strong avenue for social selection?

    "Uh, no. There really wasn’t anything comparable in West Africa in the 9th century. Or are you still challenging that dating?"

    I'm not talking about the 9th century, I'm talking about West Africa throughout the middle ages. The Igbo for most of their history had virtually no cities and were socially less complex than the other groups. I also hope you mean nothing comparable in that region of Nigeria, because there was far more extensive urbanization and literate muslim civilizations in the Sahel region of West Africa.

    "You’re pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn’t emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn’t really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    The Nok culture died out around 300 AD. If it had survived continuously into the present, we might be arguing why the Nok people are so much more successful than the Igbo. But they didn’t survive."

    I'm curious where you get the idea Benin didn't emerge as a city-state until then, because Portuguese accounts attest to them being developed by then, and their primary artistic tradition predates Portuguese contact by several decades. The Oyo Empire didn't emerge until then, but Yoruba towns and cities certainly predate then, including Ile Ife and it's art. I am skeptical how much trade with the muslims to the north influenced them, since culturally, southern nigeria had little influence from them.

    Most sources I can find on the Hausa clearly say they first arose in the early middle ages, and they didn't even adopt Islam in any degree until the 11th century.

    The point I make about the Nok is that if we're going to talk about the Igbo being more advanced early on, another good candidate would be the Nok, who created many terracotta pieces that were often life sized, and are basically the first instance of advanced art in West Africa, and while their culture may not have survived, they as a people did not die out- they gave rise to multiple other Nigerian peoples, including the Hausa.

    , @FirstPerson
    1. You say that "That’s part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn’t congeal into a final form at any one point in time.
    "

    The first civilizations in the "old world" were in Egypt and Sumer and also in warm climates in Mesoamerica in the "new world". The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from "cold" environments at all. The rest of the Mediterranean was affected by Egypt's development of writing, among other things.

    2. You say that "They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases."

    That script was invented by a completely different ethnic group who are not closely related to the Igbo called the Ekoi. They simply adopted it through trade.

    3. You say that "You’re pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn’t emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn’t really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    But literally every part of this paragraph is completely false and very strongly contradicted by every credible academic publication which has ever been published on the Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa. There is strong archaeological (and even written evidence) which contradicts all of what you state here. All of this is false.

    You say "Finally, when I wrote “the slave trade” I wasn’t referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East."

    You have no evidence of a slave trade with the Sahel or North Africa or the Middle East being responsible for the rise of any of the kingdoms of any of the peoples - Igbo, Yoruba, Benin, or Hausa - that have been discussed here. You have no such evidence because none exists to support that idea.

    Mr. Frost, have you actually read any works on African history? This entire thread, and much of what you claim in your posts are filled with made up ideas that have no support in academic sources.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    That’s part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.
    This is a bit overstated. As McBreaty and Brooks 2000 show, the people who initiated any such "revolution" were Africans, that expanded in the more favorable environments of Eurasia in different eras. And sophisticated large scale civilizations first expand to real heights in the tropical and sub-tropical zone, such as the dynasties that sprang from the south in Egypt- an area of the country that is in the tropical zone.


    .
    It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It’s a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond.

    Indeed, the script was in place before Arabs or Islam appeared. Use in Igbo trading operations would not be an indicator of Igbo exceptionalism exactly but of adaptability. Likewise even if the advanced metalwork was developed elsewhere in the region, the Igbo were already making use of it. Mayhaps it could be argued that their decentralized, fragmented polities did not allow a concentration of resources and talent sufficient to build larger state structures, or more rapid transmission of new tech and knowledge over a huge area, like one of the larger empires.

    But what looks like a disadvantage- fragmentation and small scale - concealed a ferment embedded in Igbo culture. In fact as noted above, even their religion had some elements similar to, and conducive to taking on Christianity- though the belief systems are different in many key respects. Once they had been drawn into the larger framework of the British empire, with its education, missionaries and so on, then this seeming disadvantage became an advantage. They adapted more rapidly than bigger, more sophisticated traditional polities, and reaped the advantages. If they were under a conservative, central Muslim hegemon by contrast, their relatively rapid adoption of Christianity and new Western knowledge would have proceeded more slowly. This "early adopter advantage" pattern appears in a number of places around the world.
  123. @Truth

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD
     
    Hey Pete, I see why you compared HIM to ME. I guess I'm not the only one who "just doesn't get it!"



    All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

     

    LOL! Nice Hammer, Dawg, but I hear other tools are still marked down at Home Depot for the Fourth.

    Truth, before you go on making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, you might want to check out Qasim’s posting history.

    Just out of (very mild) curiosity – who is it, exactly, that you have in mind when you make these bizarre claims about what commenters on this site believe? (i.e.: there are 3 or 4 races, they are natural kinds, and their characteristics are immutable.)

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?

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    • Replies: @syonredux

    Just out of (very mild) curiosity – who is it, exactly, that you have in mind when you make these bizarre claims about what commenters on this site believe? (i.e.: there are 3 or 4 races, they are natural kinds, and their characteristics are immutable.)

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?
     

    Well, he certainly can't mean me.I've never said anything about "races having immutable characteristics."That's a completely anti-evolutionary notion.

    As for how many "races" there are, I don't think that I've ever limited it to 3 or 4.To the contrary, I have noted that race, as a concept, can be scaled up or scaled down.For example:

    British Isles: small scale race.Very, very closely related.

    Northern Europe: somewhat bigger.Very closely related, but not as closely related as the British Isles grouping.

    Continental Europe: Much bigger. Closely related, but not as closely related as the Northern European cluster.

    North Africa,West Asia, Europe: Broadly related.As big as you can go, really, and still make a reasonably coherent group.

    Note that each group is defined in opposition to something else.

    British Isles: In contrast to non-British Isles

    Northern Europe: in contrast to Southern Europe

    Europe: in contrast to non-Europe

    North Africa,West Asia, Europe: in contrast to the other Continental scale races: Australoids, Amerinds, etc.

    , @Truth

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?
     
    Yeah, sounds good.
  124. @candid_observer
    As another data p0int, consider the Twin Cities region in Minnesota, which seems to have a large number of Nigerians these days.

    Here's a list of the National Merit Scholarship semifinalists in that area (I think it covers the neighborhoods in which the Nigerians mostly reside, but someone who knows the area better might confirm or deny):

    http://www.twincities.com/education/ci_26569064/national-merit-semifinalists-from-north-and-east-metro

    If there are any Nigerians among these names, it's certainly not obvious to me -- certainly there numbers would have to be pretty low no matter how generously such names might be interpreted.

    There aren’t that many Nigerians in Minnesota. Houston or DC suburbs of MD are probably a better place to look.

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  125. @Agubata
    Ife art and culture has been studied and propagated more in Africa mainly because of the general interest in the study of yoruba culture and tradition and not necessarily because of the 'sophistication' of Ife bronze art works. There is nothing really sophisticated about Yoruba artworks. The real artistry lies with Igbo-ukwu metal works. The general worldwide interest in the study of Yoruba culture derives from the slave trade era during which the Yorubas were among the last of ethnicities to be shipped to the new world, where they arrived to meet earlier-shipped African tribes who had long assimilated into their environment and lost a great part of their culture. The Yoruba experienced their greatest shipment to the new world (about 500 million people) after the abolishment of slave trade by the British in 1831, also coinciding with the Oyo war during which captives were sold off as slaves. The Yoruba took along with them their traditional gods and having also having arrived at a time when slave laws were abolished and relaxed, they had greater freedom in establishing and practising their religion than other groups and had strong remembrance of where they had come from. Many returned back to Africa (Nigeria and Sierra Leone). Adding to this also is the fact that they were favoured by the Portuguese who took them to mostly Latin America where slave laws were more lenient than in English America (US, Jamaica, Barbados) where Igbos were taken mostly to as they were favoured by the British for their strength and hard work. There were more Congolese, Angolan and Igbo slaves taken to the new world (in millions) than Yorubas but elements of the Yoruba tradition has survived more than these African groups combined by mere virtue of the fact that the Yoruba were the last to arrive and were also taken to areas where slave laws were lenient that they could preserve their identity. Time and environment ensured that the Yoruba tradition survived the most of all African groups taken to the new world.

    Afro-descended groups in the Caribbean who have adopted the Yoruba religion have done so not necessarily because they are Yoruba by ancestry but as a way to connect back to mama Africa. They long to reconnect to their African ancestry, their black pride, and the easiest or most accessible way of doing that is to partake in the Yoruba-derived religion in their country. For this reason, Yoruba culture and tradition has grown quite popular. Many Afro-descended blacks who pick interest in African ancestry are often presented with the Yoruba culture before any other African culture.

    I agree with you, Igbo pyramids don't come close to that of Egyptians but pyramid construction was not a common practice among ancient African groups and it is said that there must have been some level of communication between ancient Egyptians and ancient Igbo people, especially considering the striking similarity between the Igbo pyramids and Steppe pyramids of Egypt.

    If the Igbo were favored by the British it must have been for the docility. The Akans had a reputation for running off and organizing rebellions. Many of the Maroon communities in the Caribbean and South America were founded by runaway Akan slaves. The famed Maroon town in Jamaica, Accompong, is named after a common Akan surname.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accompong

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  126. @candid_observer
    As another data p0int, consider the Twin Cities region in Minnesota, which seems to have a large number of Nigerians these days.

    Here's a list of the National Merit Scholarship semifinalists in that area (I think it covers the neighborhoods in which the Nigerians mostly reside, but someone who knows the area better might confirm or deny):

    http://www.twincities.com/education/ci_26569064/national-merit-semifinalists-from-north-and-east-metro

    If there are any Nigerians among these names, it's certainly not obvious to me -- certainly there numbers would have to be pretty low no matter how generously such names might be interpreted.

    The African immigrants (and their children) that live in Minnesota are overwhelmingly from Somalia, not Nigeria. Bad example. Instead of claiming that a place seems to have a”high number of Nigerians these days” why not actually check whether or not that’s actually true?

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  127. @Peter Frost
    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not?

    The term HBD was coined in the late 1990s for a discussion group headed by Steve Sailer. It was an eclectic group so it's difficult to generalize, but the dominant tendency was the Cochran-Harpending-Hawks school of accelerated gene-culture co-evolution. In short, genetic evolution didn't stop in our species with the rise of cultural evolution. It actually accelerated, since culture became part of our adaptive landscape. So human evolution is ongoing and not something that ground to a halt back in Paleolithic, when the major human races emerged.

    Phil Rushton was a member of that group, but his theorizing was never the majority thinking. Although he became a harsh critic of evolutionary psychology, his views were influenced by many EP dogmas, including the belief that complex mental traits change very slowly and only over eons of evolutionary time.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    That's part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early "industrial revolution" (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn't congeal into a final form at any one point in time.

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If “being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples” leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    It wasn't so much "my" explanation as the standard one. Historically, Igbo trade seems to be related to their position at the mouth of the Niger River and the ability to use the Niger as a route into the Sahel and thence to North Africa and the Middle East. There are no "similar geographic circumstances" so it's difficult to test this explanation.

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?

    I'm not sure why that would be more parsimonious (perhaps closer to your way of thinking ;-). I don't attach too much importance to smelting in itself. What is striking is large-scale smelting that exceeds local needs, which comes later in time. That's evidence of production for trade.

    But the difference here is that the Igbo were completely illiterate (although they did have a rudimentary proto-script that was developed indigenously)

    They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It's a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond.

    and were in just about every regard less advanced than the other groups.

    Uh, no. There really wasn't anything comparable in West Africa in the 9th century. Or are you still challenging that dating?

    No, they didn’t. All of them predate the slave trade, the Yoruba and Benin predate the European slave trade by at least a few centuries (and their foundations are just a few centuries later), Ile Ife’s major artworks began around the beginning of the 14th century, the Hausa kingdoms predate the Nri, and there is again the fact Nigeria’s earliest major culture, the Nok, are not ancestral to the Igbo and predate all the others by over 1,000 years.

    You're pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn't emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn't emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn't really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    The Nok culture died out around 300 AD. If it had survived continuously into the present, we might be arguing why the Nok people are so much more successful than the Igbo. But they didn't survive.

    Finally, when I wrote "the slave trade" I wasn't referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East.

    And I’m not sure what you mean by “recruiting talented people” or “capturing them in raids”- what people did they conquer that were more talented themselves? Who did they raid that gave them talented slaves?

    If a State A has three times the land area of State B, it can recruit three times as many talented people even if the mean IQ is identical for both states.

    “I’m not sure why that would be more parsimonious (perhaps closer to your way of thinking ;-). I don’t attach too much importance to smelting in itself. What is striking is large-scale smelting that exceeds local needs, which comes later in time. That’s evidence of production for trade.”

    So were the Igbo smelting iron in scales that exceeded local needs?

    “They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It’s a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond.”

    That’s true, but if we’re trying to gauge their intellect based on their achievements, the Igbo are not particularly good examples. You focus on their supposed early use of metal smelting and their status as traders, but compared to just how much the other groups accomplished, is their status as pre-literate traders really a strong avenue for social selection?

    “Uh, no. There really wasn’t anything comparable in West Africa in the 9th century. Or are you still challenging that dating?”

    I’m not talking about the 9th century, I’m talking about West Africa throughout the middle ages. The Igbo for most of their history had virtually no cities and were socially less complex than the other groups. I also hope you mean nothing comparable in that region of Nigeria, because there was far more extensive urbanization and literate muslim civilizations in the Sahel region of West Africa.

    “You’re pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn’t emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn’t really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    The Nok culture died out around 300 AD. If it had survived continuously into the present, we might be arguing why the Nok people are so much more successful than the Igbo. But they didn’t survive.”

    I’m curious where you get the idea Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until then, because Portuguese accounts attest to them being developed by then, and their primary artistic tradition predates Portuguese contact by several decades. The Oyo Empire didn’t emerge until then, but Yoruba towns and cities certainly predate then, including Ile Ife and it’s art. I am skeptical how much trade with the muslims to the north influenced them, since culturally, southern nigeria had little influence from them.

    Most sources I can find on the Hausa clearly say they first arose in the early middle ages, and they didn’t even adopt Islam in any degree until the 11th century.

    The point I make about the Nok is that if we’re going to talk about the Igbo being more advanced early on, another good candidate would be the Nok, who created many terracotta pieces that were often life sized, and are basically the first instance of advanced art in West Africa, and while their culture may not have survived, they as a people did not die out- they gave rise to multiple other Nigerian peoples, including the Hausa.

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  128. @vinteuil
    Truth, before you go on making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, you might want to check out Qasim's posting history.

    Just out of (very mild) curiosity - who is it, exactly, that you have in mind when you make these bizarre claims about what commenters on this site believe? (i.e.: there are 3 or 4 races, they are natural kinds, and their characteristics are immutable.)

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?

    Just out of (very mild) curiosity – who is it, exactly, that you have in mind when you make these bizarre claims about what commenters on this site believe? (i.e.: there are 3 or 4 races, they are natural kinds, and their characteristics are immutable.)

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?

    Well, he certainly can’t mean me.I’ve never said anything about “races having immutable characteristics.”That’s a completely anti-evolutionary notion.

    As for how many “races” there are, I don’t think that I’ve ever limited it to 3 or 4.To the contrary, I have noted that race, as a concept, can be scaled up or scaled down.For example:

    British Isles: small scale race.Very, very closely related.

    Northern Europe: somewhat bigger.Very closely related, but not as closely related as the British Isles grouping.

    Continental Europe: Much bigger. Closely related, but not as closely related as the Northern European cluster.

    North Africa,West Asia, Europe: Broadly related.As big as you can go, really, and still make a reasonably coherent group.

    Note that each group is defined in opposition to something else.

    British Isles: In contrast to non-British Isles

    Northern Europe: in contrast to Southern Europe

    Europe: in contrast to non-Europe

    North Africa,West Asia, Europe: in contrast to the other Continental scale races: Australoids, Amerinds, etc.

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    • Replies: @vinteuil
    "Well, he certainly can’t mean me."

    But, syon, given his response to me above, he *does* mean you...or, at the very least, he doesn't care to distinguish between you and the others I mentioned (all of whom, so far as I can judge, are equally innocent as charged.)

  129. @Peter Frost
    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not?

    The term HBD was coined in the late 1990s for a discussion group headed by Steve Sailer. It was an eclectic group so it's difficult to generalize, but the dominant tendency was the Cochran-Harpending-Hawks school of accelerated gene-culture co-evolution. In short, genetic evolution didn't stop in our species with the rise of cultural evolution. It actually accelerated, since culture became part of our adaptive landscape. So human evolution is ongoing and not something that ground to a halt back in Paleolithic, when the major human races emerged.

    Phil Rushton was a member of that group, but his theorizing was never the majority thinking. Although he became a harsh critic of evolutionary psychology, his views were influenced by many EP dogmas, including the belief that complex mental traits change very slowly and only over eons of evolutionary time.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    That's part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early "industrial revolution" (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn't congeal into a final form at any one point in time.

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If “being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples” leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    It wasn't so much "my" explanation as the standard one. Historically, Igbo trade seems to be related to their position at the mouth of the Niger River and the ability to use the Niger as a route into the Sahel and thence to North Africa and the Middle East. There are no "similar geographic circumstances" so it's difficult to test this explanation.

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?

    I'm not sure why that would be more parsimonious (perhaps closer to your way of thinking ;-). I don't attach too much importance to smelting in itself. What is striking is large-scale smelting that exceeds local needs, which comes later in time. That's evidence of production for trade.

    But the difference here is that the Igbo were completely illiterate (although they did have a rudimentary proto-script that was developed indigenously)

    They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It's a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond.

    and were in just about every regard less advanced than the other groups.

    Uh, no. There really wasn't anything comparable in West Africa in the 9th century. Or are you still challenging that dating?

    No, they didn’t. All of them predate the slave trade, the Yoruba and Benin predate the European slave trade by at least a few centuries (and their foundations are just a few centuries later), Ile Ife’s major artworks began around the beginning of the 14th century, the Hausa kingdoms predate the Nri, and there is again the fact Nigeria’s earliest major culture, the Nok, are not ancestral to the Igbo and predate all the others by over 1,000 years.

    You're pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn't emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn't emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn't really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    The Nok culture died out around 300 AD. If it had survived continuously into the present, we might be arguing why the Nok people are so much more successful than the Igbo. But they didn't survive.

    Finally, when I wrote "the slave trade" I wasn't referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East.

    And I’m not sure what you mean by “recruiting talented people” or “capturing them in raids”- what people did they conquer that were more talented themselves? Who did they raid that gave them talented slaves?

    If a State A has three times the land area of State B, it can recruit three times as many talented people even if the mean IQ is identical for both states.

    1. You say that “That’s part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn’t congeal into a final form at any one point in time.”

    The first civilizations in the “old world” were in Egypt and Sumer and also in warm climates in Mesoamerica in the “new world”. The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from “cold” environments at all. The rest of the Mediterranean was affected by Egypt’s development of writing, among other things.

    2. You say that “They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases.

    That script was invented by a completely different ethnic group who are not closely related to the Igbo called the Ekoi. They simply adopted it through trade.

    3. You say that “You’re pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn’t emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn’t really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    But literally every part of this paragraph is completely false and very strongly contradicted by every credible academic publication which has ever been published on the Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa. There is strong archaeological (and even written evidence) which contradicts all of what you state here. All of this is false.

    You say “Finally, when I wrote “the slave trade” I wasn’t referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East.

    You have no evidence of a slave trade with the Sahel or North Africa or the Middle East being responsible for the rise of any of the kingdoms of any of the peoples – Igbo, Yoruba, Benin, or Hausa – that have been discussed here. You have no such evidence because none exists to support that idea.

    Mr. Frost, have you actually read any works on African history? This entire thread, and much of what you claim in your posts are filled with made up ideas that have no support in academic sources.

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    • Replies: @anon

    This entire thread, and much of what you claim in your posts are filled with made up ideas that have no support in academic sources.
     
    One argument in this thread is is it possible for the claim made by Mr Chisala to be true and another is whether it is true. The two have got jumbled together.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from “cold” environments at all. The rest of the Mediterranean was affected by Egypt’s development of writing, among other things.

    Indeed. It should be noted that some scholars show writing being developed some centuries earlier in Egypt than in Mesopotamia (Darnell 2003, Dreyer 1999). The alphabet in use today was also derived in part from Egyptian scripts and writing, adapted by Semitic speakers. (Sacks 2003- Language Visible)

    .
    That script was invented by a completely different ethnic group who are not closely related to the Igbo called the Ekoi. They simply adopted it through trade.
    But both Ekoi and Igbo fall within the same general culture area., and the scripts, which have partial logographic and syllabic elements, have been in use by various language groups in southern Nigeria from before Islamic times- including both Igbo and Ekoi. This would show the Igbo capability for adaptation, but also indicates that the Igbo tapped into and shared the general regional culture, and cannot be viewed as super-exceptions. This regional sharing would incorporate the elements Peter talks about. The Igbo thus did not need to develop metallurgy or writing independently. The regional cultures already provided the nursery for adaptation into Igbo culture, and this in turn provided the basis for adaptation when the British empire's education framework appeared.

  130. @Rodolfo
    The only study I've ever read about it disagrees with your view. Igbos have smaller cranial capacity that Northwest tribes.
    See: http://docsdrive.com/pdfs/ansinet/jas/0000/22741-22741.pdf

    Not my view, I was pointing out something frequently said on the Nigerian forum.

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  131. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Dipwill
    "1) It’s all relative – a mean of 85 is better than a mean of 70 but it’s still 85."

    Uh huh. There's no way Nigeria's IQ is 70, or that the Igbo are no more intelligent than african-americans.

    The numbers were just for illustration – the point is it’s all relative so if a population y has a higher mean IQ than population x it doesn’t follow that they must have the same achievements as a population with a mean of z.

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  132. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @FirstPerson
    1. You say that "That’s part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn’t congeal into a final form at any one point in time.
    "

    The first civilizations in the "old world" were in Egypt and Sumer and also in warm climates in Mesoamerica in the "new world". The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from "cold" environments at all. The rest of the Mediterranean was affected by Egypt's development of writing, among other things.

    2. You say that "They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases."

    That script was invented by a completely different ethnic group who are not closely related to the Igbo called the Ekoi. They simply adopted it through trade.

    3. You say that "You’re pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn’t emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn’t really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    But literally every part of this paragraph is completely false and very strongly contradicted by every credible academic publication which has ever been published on the Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa. There is strong archaeological (and even written evidence) which contradicts all of what you state here. All of this is false.

    You say "Finally, when I wrote “the slave trade” I wasn’t referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East."

    You have no evidence of a slave trade with the Sahel or North Africa or the Middle East being responsible for the rise of any of the kingdoms of any of the peoples - Igbo, Yoruba, Benin, or Hausa - that have been discussed here. You have no such evidence because none exists to support that idea.

    Mr. Frost, have you actually read any works on African history? This entire thread, and much of what you claim in your posts are filled with made up ideas that have no support in academic sources.

    This entire thread, and much of what you claim in your posts are filled with made up ideas that have no support in academic sources.

    One argument in this thread is is it possible for the claim made by Mr Chisala to be true and another is whether it is true. The two have got jumbled together.

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  133. OK, so Minnesota probably wasn’t the best place to look for Nigerians. Houston seems to be a much better place, with 150,000 Nigerians according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Houston#Nigerians

    Houston has a population of about 2 million, so that would be about 7% Nigerian.

    But are there any National Merit Semifinalists among those from Houston?

    http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/ranch/news/semifinalists-named-in-the-national-merit-scholarship-program/article_2982874d-47c3-5677-a9ef-bdfbe904c069.html

    I won’t pretend to know for sure which of these names might be Nigerian, but I don’t see many that seem to be obvious candidates. Maybe someone with that knowledge can spot some?

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    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    I do not think any of those names are Nigerian. There are several other cities that Nigerians are in in Texas. I know a Nigerian student who was a national merit semifinalist from another city in Texas who went on to attend Stanford. She went to high school in a suburb in the DFW area and graduated high school in 2006. I do not know what she is doing now however.

    I think the national merit semifinalist list would be useful if you could show that Nigerians are even represented significantly in the national achievement list. If they are in the national achievement lists frequently but not in the national merit lists for the same school districts then it would show that they are not meeting the cutoff for the national merit lists. But if they are not represented much in either there might not be enough of them in any one city or school district for them to be represented significantly.

    There are other Nigerian students like Saheela Ibrahim or Harold Ekeh that did well in the U.S. It is possible that these two students got the national merit semifinalist recognition or scholarship, though I have not read that they did. Ekeh was an Intel semifinalist so it is possible that he was a national merit semifinalist since his academic performance was clearly stellar. But I never saw that mentioned in the stories on him so perhaps he did not take the PSAT. In other countries there are Nigerian students doing well and coming at the top of their graduating classes so I think there may be a trend like that for Nigerian immigrants as mentioned in the article by Chisala. Getting national merit data would be hard for every city where there are some Nigerians and doing a population adjusted comparison with other groups would also be a hefty task. But if you are up for it, good luck.
    , @FirstPerson
    candid_observer

    I looked a little harder and I was able to find this. She was not just a semifinalist, but actually a finalist.

    http://www.felicianaexplorer.com/content/west-feliciana%E2%80%99s-ngozi-nwabueze-recognized-national-merit-finalist

    She is Igbo.

    However this example demonstrates the difficulty of using the national merit lists, because it has to be done by checking every individual school district or city and without a story promoting an individual like this one it would be hard to find the information needed to make a comparison unless all school districts list the names of the people getting national merit semifinalist or finalist recognition. I never read any story like this one above about my acquaintance who graduated in the DFW area in 2006 and was a semifinalist and if this website about West Feliciana had not decided to make a story out of this person's award I would not even have this example to show you. So I think the national merit list approach for making comparisons has its challenges.

    , @Ed
    None appear to be Nigerian, so much for that.
  134. @candid_observer
    OK, so Minnesota probably wasn't the best place to look for Nigerians. Houston seems to be a much better place, with 150,000 Nigerians according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Houston#Nigerians

    Houston has a population of about 2 million, so that would be about 7% Nigerian.

    But are there any National Merit Semifinalists among those from Houston?

    http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/ranch/news/semifinalists-named-in-the-national-merit-scholarship-program/article_2982874d-47c3-5677-a9ef-bdfbe904c069.html

    I won't pretend to know for sure which of these names might be Nigerian, but I don't see many that seem to be obvious candidates. Maybe someone with that knowledge can spot some?

    I do not think any of those names are Nigerian. There are several other cities that Nigerians are in in Texas. I know a Nigerian student who was a national merit semifinalist from another city in Texas who went on to attend Stanford. She went to high school in a suburb in the DFW area and graduated high school in 2006. I do not know what she is doing now however.

    I think the national merit semifinalist list would be useful if you could show that Nigerians are even represented significantly in the national achievement list. If they are in the national achievement lists frequently but not in the national merit lists for the same school districts then it would show that they are not meeting the cutoff for the national merit lists. But if they are not represented much in either there might not be enough of them in any one city or school district for them to be represented significantly.

    There are other Nigerian students like Saheela Ibrahim or Harold Ekeh that did well in the U.S. It is possible that these two students got the national merit semifinalist recognition or scholarship, though I have not read that they did. Ekeh was an Intel semifinalist so it is possible that he was a national merit semifinalist since his academic performance was clearly stellar. But I never saw that mentioned in the stories on him so perhaps he did not take the PSAT. In other countries there are Nigerian students doing well and coming at the top of their graduating classes so I think there may be a trend like that for Nigerian immigrants as mentioned in the article by Chisala. Getting national merit data would be hard for every city where there are some Nigerians and doing a population adjusted comparison with other groups would also be a hefty task. But if you are up for it, good luck.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    The point behind my choice of Houston, and the numbers I cited, were that one would certainly expect to see Nigerians turning up in some significant numbers in the National Merit Scholarship Semifinalist list for Houston if they were exhibiting the same level of cognitive performance as whites. As I pointed out, they appear to be 7% of the population of Houston. The list has about 250 names. One might expect about 15-20 Nigerian names if they were performing at the same level as whites, yet there appear to be none, by your account. This strongly suggests that their actual level of performance is far lower than that of whites (or Asians, who always do quite well).
  135. @candid_observer
    OK, so Minnesota probably wasn't the best place to look for Nigerians. Houston seems to be a much better place, with 150,000 Nigerians according to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Houston#Nigerians

    Houston has a population of about 2 million, so that would be about 7% Nigerian.

    But are there any National Merit Semifinalists among those from Houston?

    http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/ranch/news/semifinalists-named-in-the-national-merit-scholarship-program/article_2982874d-47c3-5677-a9ef-bdfbe904c069.html

    I won't pretend to know for sure which of these names might be Nigerian, but I don't see many that seem to be obvious candidates. Maybe someone with that knowledge can spot some?

    candid_observer

    I looked a little harder and I was able to find this. She was not just a semifinalist, but actually a finalist.

    http://www.felicianaexplorer.com/content/west-feliciana%E2%80%99s-ngozi-nwabueze-recognized-national-merit-finalist

    She is Igbo.

    However this example demonstrates the difficulty of using the national merit lists, because it has to be done by checking every individual school district or city and without a story promoting an individual like this one it would be hard to find the information needed to make a comparison unless all school districts list the names of the people getting national merit semifinalist or finalist recognition. I never read any story like this one above about my acquaintance who graduated in the DFW area in 2006 and was a semifinalist and if this website about West Feliciana had not decided to make a story out of this person’s award I would not even have this example to show you. So I think the national merit list approach for making comparisons has its challenges.

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  136. @vinteuil
    Truth, before you go on making an even bigger fool of yourself than you already have, you might want to check out Qasim's posting history.

    Just out of (very mild) curiosity - who is it, exactly, that you have in mind when you make these bizarre claims about what commenters on this site believe? (i.e.: there are 3 or 4 races, they are natural kinds, and their characteristics are immutable.)

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?

    Yeah, sounds good.

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    • Replies: @vinteuil
    But, Truth, you surprising man - to my knowledge (and I follow comments here way more than I should) none of those guys have ever claimed anything of the sort!

    Maybe you could give me a link?
  137. @Qasim
    Peter, thank you for replying to my post. (although comparing me to Truth is very insulting! :))

    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not? Of course this basic division in no way denies the possibility of significant variation within a race, but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia. Your hypothesis is that a significantly higher IQ developed INDIGENOUSLY among an equatorial people, which, if true, would totally upend the standard HBD explanation for high intelligence!

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If "being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples" leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement. Has this phenomenon been documented?

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn't is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial? Your hypothesis seems to require that the salutary benefits of their geographic trading position have been continuously exerting their selection pressure on the Igbo for 6000 years! (using the 2000 years it took Ashkenazi Jews to develop their high IQ in Europe as a rough guide).

    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don’t use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians? Now go through some dubious contortions to try to shoehorn them into one of your “standing” categories.. lol

    .
    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    And this “standard belief ” has been pretty much debunked by credible scholarship.

    Evolution, brain size, and the national IQ of peoples … – Jelte Wicherts 2010

    http://wicherts.socsci.uva.nl/wichertsPAIDrejoinder.pdf

    http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2014/03/hbd-heriditarian-race-reality-claims.html

    http://www.anth.uconn.edu/faculty/mcbrearty/Pdf/McB%20&%20Brooks%202000%20TRTW.pdf

    .
    then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    Actually there are several peoples (see Sierra Leone for example) who have attained high levels of educational achievement in their local societies. However many people from these groups however have not migrated out to the extent of the Igbo, so test measures from the UK are not available on them, but they like the Igbo, show early adoption to modern Western education, which yields enduring advantages on assorted modern tests. This is indeed a common pattern not only in Africa but elsewhere. Scotland, once a backwater, adapted to British hegemony over many centuries, with fulsome benefit and achievement for the Scots, through their centuries of association with a larger hegemon’s framework. Scots went on for example to do well in the educational system of Britain over the centuries.

    .
    Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?
    Actually this is one of the LEAST parsimonious conclusions. “Time immemorial” would cover all data up to the present era, hardly a “parsimonious” way of doing things. Peter’s argument is reasonable in the sense that elements of the Igbo culture, coalesced and found linkages with the incoming British culture that enabled more rapid adaptation to the modern industrial era, and its educational structures.

    .
    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    Actually credible scholarship already quoted (Relethford 2000, et al) has already debunked and dismissed your obsolete “white blood” theory. Igbo variation in skin color is nothing special- it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called ‘Red” Igbo, to numerous other variants in between. Such variation is nothing new, and nothing special in Africa.

    “Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. T
    his study examines regional differences in within-population
    diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin
    reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight
    geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe,
    West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the
    New World. Regional differences in local within-population
    diversity were examined using two measures of variability:
    the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation.
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits.”
    –Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.

    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.

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    • Replies: @Deduction

    it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called ‘Red” Igbo, to numerous other variants in between.
     
    Bigger than the difference between Swedes and South Indians?
    , @Qasim
    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don’t use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians?

    Notice I said 3-4 macro-races. The 4 is there for a reason, as Australoids are often classified as the fourth. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you start doing the lol thing.

    And calling something obsolete gruel doesn't magically make it so. And what modern scientists may or may not use just speaks to the ideological committments of modern scientists. This website recently published an article by Robert Trivers, the sections on Gould and Lewontin show perfect examples of ideology trumping a dispassionate search for the truth.

    Also, simply NOTING the diversity of skin color amongst sub-Saharan Africans is not the same as EXPLAINING said diversity, no matter how many fancy articles you site. It is true than the San have a yellowish complexion. Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned. When one sees an African-American with a lighter complexion, one naturally assumes partial European ancestry. So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans? Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory? Again, the Razib Khan article states that Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians. Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement.

    And why is it that the pattern of light-skinned elites has manifested itself over and over throughout world history? South America, the Caribbean, the Middle East, India, and now Nigeria. Weird, no? Ideologically addled people such as yourself can write 20 posts and link to 50 articles all you want, the individual trees do not obscure the forest at all.
  138. @neutral
    While this is certainly interesting, one still has to ask why a place like Nigeria is so poor (and from my personal experience Lagos is a terrible city). I know that countries like South Korea and China were dirt poor not that long ago, but both their histories indicate that they had great potential, in the past they produced literature, technical innovations and other such things. Looking at the history of West Africa I see almost nothing to indicate any such potentiality. If these Igbos are truly the elite of Africa when are we going to see some of them being in the top 10 of chess players, or winning the Fields Medal or the Nobel Physics prizes ?

    Peter never said they were any “elite” of Africa per se. They are an example of a people who drawing on indigenous cultural elements (from metalwork, to trading, etc), adapted more quickly to modern Western education, and now today, reap the advantages. The Scots likewise adapted more quickly than others through centuries of adaptation to the larger framework of British hegemony, and as a result of those centuries, show the advantages. The Igbo have not had the same adaptation time as the Scots, but still the general pattern shows itself.

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  139. @Peter Frost
    You state that the belief that there are 3-4 races is simplistic. But this IS the basic thrust of HBD (at least the Rushton version), is it not?

    The term HBD was coined in the late 1990s for a discussion group headed by Steve Sailer. It was an eclectic group so it's difficult to generalize, but the dominant tendency was the Cochran-Harpending-Hawks school of accelerated gene-culture co-evolution. In short, genetic evolution didn't stop in our species with the rise of cultural evolution. It actually accelerated, since culture became part of our adaptive landscape. So human evolution is ongoing and not something that ground to a halt back in Paleolithic, when the major human races emerged.

    Phil Rushton was a member of that group, but his theorizing was never the majority thinking. Although he became a harsh critic of evolutionary psychology, his views were influenced by many EP dogmas, including the belief that complex mental traits change very slowly and only over eons of evolutionary time.

    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    That's part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early "industrial revolution" (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn't congeal into a final form at any one point in time.

    I must admit I find your explanation of high Igbo intelligence to be somewhat ad hoc. If “being in a go-between position between coastal and interior peoples” leads to high intelligence, then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    It wasn't so much "my" explanation as the standard one. Historically, Igbo trade seems to be related to their position at the mouth of the Niger River and the ability to use the Niger as a route into the Sahel and thence to North Africa and the Middle East. There are no "similar geographic circumstances" so it's difficult to test this explanation.

    And you write that the Igbo developed metallurgy much earlier than the rest of West Africa, with evidence of smelting from 2000 B.C. Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?

    I'm not sure why that would be more parsimonious (perhaps closer to your way of thinking ;-). I don't attach too much importance to smelting in itself. What is striking is large-scale smelting that exceeds local needs, which comes later in time. That's evidence of production for trade.

    But the difference here is that the Igbo were completely illiterate (although they did have a rudimentary proto-script that was developed indigenously)

    They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It's a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond.

    and were in just about every regard less advanced than the other groups.

    Uh, no. There really wasn't anything comparable in West Africa in the 9th century. Or are you still challenging that dating?

    No, they didn’t. All of them predate the slave trade, the Yoruba and Benin predate the European slave trade by at least a few centuries (and their foundations are just a few centuries later), Ile Ife’s major artworks began around the beginning of the 14th century, the Hausa kingdoms predate the Nri, and there is again the fact Nigeria’s earliest major culture, the Nok, are not ancestral to the Igbo and predate all the others by over 1,000 years.

    You're pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn't emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn't emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn't really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    The Nok culture died out around 300 AD. If it had survived continuously into the present, we might be arguing why the Nok people are so much more successful than the Igbo. But they didn't survive.

    Finally, when I wrote "the slave trade" I wasn't referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East.

    And I’m not sure what you mean by “recruiting talented people” or “capturing them in raids”- what people did they conquer that were more talented themselves? Who did they raid that gave them talented slaves?

    If a State A has three times the land area of State B, it can recruit three times as many talented people even if the mean IQ is identical for both states.

    That’s part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.
    This is a bit overstated. As McBreaty and Brooks 2000 show, the people who initiated any such “revolution” were Africans, that expanded in the more favorable environments of Eurasia in different eras. And sophisticated large scale civilizations first expand to real heights in the tropical and sub-tropical zone, such as the dynasties that sprang from the south in Egypt- an area of the country that is in the tropical zone.

    .
    It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases. High culture? No, but high culture is not necessarily a product of a high mean IQ. It’s a product of centralized states that can recruit talented people from a large territory, or even from farther beyond.

    Indeed, the script was in place before Arabs or Islam appeared. Use in Igbo trading operations would not be an indicator of Igbo exceptionalism exactly but of adaptability. Likewise even if the advanced metalwork was developed elsewhere in the region, the Igbo were already making use of it. Mayhaps it could be argued that their decentralized, fragmented polities did not allow a concentration of resources and talent sufficient to build larger state structures, or more rapid transmission of new tech and knowledge over a huge area, like one of the larger empires.

    But what looks like a disadvantage- fragmentation and small scale – concealed a ferment embedded in Igbo culture. In fact as noted above, even their religion had some elements similar to, and conducive to taking on Christianity- though the belief systems are different in many key respects. Once they had been drawn into the larger framework of the British empire, with its education, missionaries and so on, then this seeming disadvantage became an advantage. They adapted more rapidly than bigger, more sophisticated traditional polities, and reaped the advantages. If they were under a conservative, central Muslim hegemon by contrast, their relatively rapid adoption of Christianity and new Western knowledge would have proceeded more slowly. This “early adopter advantage” pattern appears in a number of places around the world.

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    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles ...


    the people who initiated any such “revolution” were Africans, that expanded in the more favorable environments of Eurasia in different eras.

     


     
    First needles 30,000yr before the Pyramids:


    Bone needles

    Late Magdalenian, about 12,500 years old
    From the cave of Courbet, Penne-Tarn, France

    Needles first appear in western Europe on Upper Palaeolithic sites about 35,000 years ago. They show not only a newly found skill in working bone, but also suggest that skins and furs were being used to make such items as clothes, shoes, tents, blankets, nets and bags, as well as the production of thread.

     

  140. @candid_observer
    I have no reason in principle to doubt that the Igbo are distinctly higher in IQ than other sub-Saharan Africans, or even that they do as well as better on that measure than the average white in England.

    But here's my problem with that idea (which always is the problem with claims that, say, a group of sub-Saharan ancestry is at or near the average IQ for some white population): we never see individuals from this group show up in expected numbers at the higher ranges of cognitive ability when they are in standard Western environments.

    Here's a quote from a comment elsewhere on unz.com that makes this point pretty clearly, starting out with a link to a document which mentions that the performance of blacks in England is far below that of whites on a standard cognitive test applied to all medical students in England:


    http://www.ukcat.ac.uk/App_Media/uploads/pdf/UKCAT%20Annual%20Report%20Final%20Low%20Res.pdf

    Standardized cognitive test administered annually to all medical students (not some dodgy power point put together in 5 minutes).

    Page 13

    UK White mean – 2737.96 with a standard deviation of 268.15
    UK Black mean – 2430.79

    Slightly more than a full standard deviation in cognitive means with a sufficiently representative national sample size.
     

    Where are the Igbo, or any of those of Subsaharan ancestry, in these numbers?

    It really is at the upper reaches of cognitive ability that it is easiest to detect differences across groups, because it is there that the bell curves show the greatest differentials at any given cutoff.

    In particular, it's quite possible for a group to be selectively represented in a given environment (such as among those who are able and willing to immigrate to a western country), but the tails of the bell curve remain the same, so that very few turn up at the upper reaches. In fact, noting such behavior is a good sign of selection.

    Under such selective representation, it is indeed quite possible that the group being selected has a higher average performance than the white population, but the performance at the upper end will still be far below that of the white population. This may what is happening with the Igbo, or immigrants from Africa in general.

    But here’s my problem with that idea (which always is the problem with claims that, say, a group of sub-Saharan ancestry is at or near the average IQ for some white population)

    It depends on the white population being compared. In Lynn and Vanhaven’s national IQ rankings, West Africans of Sierre Leone come out at number 16, higher than white Albania, Bosnia, Chile, Croatia, Turkey, Serbia, or white/”Caucasoid” Iraq, Kuwait, Columbia, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and most of the other Arab emirates.

    It also depends on the measuring device. Chisala’s data does on fact show the Africans outperforming the white average on several counts, based on the instrument used, or making both relative and absolute gains. The usual objection to this is that the African immigrants were “selected” group- but all immigrants are to some extent a select group, including white Americans who are immigrants to that territory. Furthermore the Africans as Chisala shows labor under some language difficulties- they have no easy road – but yet on those measures still post above the white average. As for whites on the upper end, those at the upper end are themselves a “select” group, typically endowed with better educations, family backgrounds, better nutrition, more exposure to books, more affluence etc than others. So they too are beneficiaries of environmental “selection” and their test results reflect it.

    Chisala’s data is also confirmed by other research, While genetics plays a part as all know, so too does environment. Per Nisbett al at 2012:

    We review new findings and new theoretical developments in the field of intelligence. New findings include the following: (a) Heritability of IQ varies significantly by social class. (b) Almost no genetic polymorphisms have been discovered that are consistently associated with variation in IQ in the normal range. (c) Much has been learned about the biological underpinnings of intelligence. (d) “Crystallized” and “fluid” IQ are quite different aspects of intelligence at both the behavioral and biological levels. (e) The importance of the environment for IQ is established by the 12-point to 18-point increase in IQ when children are adopted from working-class to middle-class homes. (f) Even when improvements in IQ produced by the most effective early childhood interventions fail to persist, there can be very marked effects on academic achievement and life outcomes. (g) In most developed countries studied, gains on IQ tests have continued, and they are beginning in the developing world. (h) Sex differences in aspects of intelligence are due partly to identifiable biological factors and partly to socialization factors. (i) The IQ gap between Blacks and Whites has been reduced by 0.33 SD in recent years.

    –Intelligence: new findings and theoretical developments.(Author abstract)(Report)
    The American psychologist [0003-066X] yr:2012 vol:67 iss:2 pg:130

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    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome

    West Africans of Sierre Leone come out at number 16, higher than white Albania, Bosnia, Chile, Croatia, Turkey, Serbia, or white/”Caucasoid” Iraq, Kuwait, Columbia, Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Algeria
     
    So the Middle East and Ottoman occupied Muslim balkans is "white"? Saudi Arabia and Columbia?
  141. So were the Igbo smelting iron in scales that exceeded local needs?

    Yes, that was the conclusion of Eze-Uzomaka (see above article).

    You focus on their supposed early use of metal smelting and their status as traders

    Again, their early use of metal smelting (why the snark word “supposed”?) doesn’t count for much in itself. What counts is the scale of the production. We should also consider the techniques of metallurgy, which appear to be largely of indigenous origin. This was not the case with the Hausa, among whom metallurgy appeared later in time and was largely inspired by North African and Middle Eastern traditions.

    but compared to just how much the other groups accomplished, is their status as pre-literate traders really a strong avenue for social selection?

    More snark. Why not say “semi-literate” instead of “pre-literate”? This is supposed to be an academic discussion and not a political debate. Also, it’s natural selection, not social selection.

    Traders, unlike farmers (who can revert to autarky), are very sensitive to market conditions. If they can’t sell, they starve to death. This is what happened during the Bengal famine of 1944. The farmers survived that famine a lot better than the traders.

    I’m not talking about the 9th century, I’m talking about West Africa throughout the middle ages.

    My point was that the Igbo began to develop a market economy and show advanced cultural development (e.g., metallurgy) at a much earlier date than other West Africans. They also developed much more through their own resources and intellect.

    Again, you attach too much importance to the trappings of centralized state formation (building of monuments, palaces, etc.) By that line of reasoning, the Ashkenazi Jews were nobodies. For that matter, the English were nobodies for most of their history.

    I’m curious where you get the idea Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until then, because Portuguese accounts attest to them being developed by then, and their primary artistic tradition predates Portuguese contact by several decades. The Oyo Empire didn’t emerge until then, but Yoruba towns and cities certainly predate then, including Ile Ife and it’s art. I am skeptical how much trade with the muslims to the north influenced them, since culturally, southern nigeria had little influence from them.

    “By the 15th century, Edo as a system of protected settlements expanded into a thriving city-state. In the 15th century, the twelfth Oba in line, Oba Ewuare the Great (1440–1473) would expand the city-state to an empire.

    It was not until the 15th century during the reign of Oba Ewuare the Great that the kingdom’s administrative centre, the city Ubinu, began to be known as Benin City by the Portuguese, and would later be adopted by the locals as well.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire

    With respect to the Yoruba, evidence of urbanism go no farther back than the 12th century. There is evidence of artwork but it was produced under royal patronage and not for trade.

    “Archaeologically, the settlement at Ife shows features of urbanism in the 12th – 14th century era. In the period around 1300 C.E. the artists at Ife developed a refined and naturalistic sculptural tradition in terracotta, stone and copper alloy – copper, brass, and bronze many of which appear to have been created under the patronage of King Obalufon II

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoruba_people#Oyo_and_Ile-Ife

    The earliest Hausa kingdom Kanem-Borno did not begin to expand until the 13th century, when it is first mentioned in Muslim texts.

    and while their [the Nok] culture may not have survived, they as a people did not die out- they gave rise to multiple other Nigerian peoples, including the Hausa.

    You seem to subscribe to the Truth school of HBD.

    Without culture, there can be no gene-culture coevolution. If a cultural tradition dies out, it can no longer maintain the patterns of thought and behavior that it once supported. If you don’t use it, you lose it. Even if the Nok were ancestral to the Hausa, the people who survived the extinction of the Nok culture would have been living under less advanced conditions. What was once useful would no longer be useful.

    The first civilizations in the “old world” were in Egypt and Sumer and also in warm climates in Mesoamerica in the “new world”. The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from “cold” environments at all.

    Excuse me, but aren’t you now arguing against your previous comment? You know, the stuff about cognition being favored by adaptation to northern climates? If I remember, I was the one who was saying that this was merely part of the overall picture.

    Most of the human gene pool has its origins in people who lived in northern Eurasia 10,000 years ago. We see this in the Eurasiatic language macrofamily and the more hypothetical Borean macrofamily, both of which are centered on northern Eurasia. There seems to have been a series of southward-moving demographic expansions since the end of the last ice age.

    They simply adopted it through trade.

    Just as our ancestors adopted the Phoenician alphabet and Arabic numerals.

    But literally every part of this paragraph is completely false and very strongly contradicted by every credible academic publication which has ever been published on the Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa.

    I’ve presented my sources, both in the comments and in the original article. I can only conclude that we are in fundamental disagreement.

    You have no evidence of a slave trade with the Sahel or North Africa or the Middle East being responsible for the rise of any of the kingdoms of any of the peoples – Igbo, Yoruba, Benin, or Hausa

    In the case of the Igbo, there is no such evidence, and I never said there was. The Hausa were definitely involved in the transsaharan slave trade. In fact, slaves were the main commodity that they exported. The Yoruba and the Benin were more peripheral to this trade, and I would certainly give more weight to the Atlantic slave trade in their case.

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    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    Peter Frost you quoted a wikipedia article on Benin. That is unfortunate. Benin became an empire several decades before the Portuguese arrived and when the Portuguese got there they found an already thriving state that was already influential in the region. You do not seem to understand that it had already existed as a city-state even before the 15th century which is contrary to what you initially said. The claim in the badly written wikipedia article that it expanded into a city state in the 15th century is nonsense and is contradicted by every professional study of that state.

    You also said "With respect to the Yoruba, evidence of urbanism go no farther back than the 12th century. ."

    This is just completely false. Why do you not just read up on these peoples and cultures beforehand if you are going to discuss them?

    You also said "The earliest Hausa kingdom Kanem-Borno did not begin to expand until the 13th century, when it is first mentioned in Muslim texts."

    Kanem-Borno was not even Hausa and the first mention of Kanem is from the 9th century not the 13th century anyway.

    You said "Excuse me, but aren’t you now arguing against your previous comment? You know, the stuff about cognition being favored by adaptation to northern climates? If I remember, I was the one who was saying that this was merely part of the overall picture.

    Most of the human gene pool has its origins in people who lived in northern Eurasia 10,000 years ago. We see this in the Eurasiatic language macrofamily and the more hypothetical Borean macrofamily, both of which are centered on northern Eurasia. There seems to have been a series of southward-moving demographic expansions since the end of the last ice age.
    "

    No I am not in any way arguing against my previous comment. I did not say anything about "cognition being favored by adaptation to northern climates". You must be confusing me with someone else. I was simply countering your claim that "cold environments" have anything in particular to do with the first real civilizations. The rest of this paragraph is speculation.

    You say "I’ve presented my sources, both in the comments and in the original article. I can only conclude that we are in fundamental disagreement."

    You go farther than your sources allow and make unfounded speculations about peoples that you have clearly read very little about in order to make your arguments.


    You say "In the case of the Igbo, there is no such evidence, and I never said there was. The Hausa were definitely involved in the transsaharan slave trade. In fact, slaves were the main commodity that they exported. The Yoruba and the Benin were more peripheral to this trade, and I would certainly give more weight to the Atlantic slave trade in their case."

    The Yoruba and Benin were not involved in the transsaharan slave trade in any significant numbers if at all. The Atlantic slave trade came about long after both groups had already established states. There is no evidence that the transsaharan slave trade is what caused the Hausa city states to develop either. You are simply making things up.
  142. @FirstPerson
    I do not think any of those names are Nigerian. There are several other cities that Nigerians are in in Texas. I know a Nigerian student who was a national merit semifinalist from another city in Texas who went on to attend Stanford. She went to high school in a suburb in the DFW area and graduated high school in 2006. I do not know what she is doing now however.

    I think the national merit semifinalist list would be useful if you could show that Nigerians are even represented significantly in the national achievement list. If they are in the national achievement lists frequently but not in the national merit lists for the same school districts then it would show that they are not meeting the cutoff for the national merit lists. But if they are not represented much in either there might not be enough of them in any one city or school district for them to be represented significantly.

    There are other Nigerian students like Saheela Ibrahim or Harold Ekeh that did well in the U.S. It is possible that these two students got the national merit semifinalist recognition or scholarship, though I have not read that they did. Ekeh was an Intel semifinalist so it is possible that he was a national merit semifinalist since his academic performance was clearly stellar. But I never saw that mentioned in the stories on him so perhaps he did not take the PSAT. In other countries there are Nigerian students doing well and coming at the top of their graduating classes so I think there may be a trend like that for Nigerian immigrants as mentioned in the article by Chisala. Getting national merit data would be hard for every city where there are some Nigerians and doing a population adjusted comparison with other groups would also be a hefty task. But if you are up for it, good luck.

    The point behind my choice of Houston, and the numbers I cited, were that one would certainly expect to see Nigerians turning up in some significant numbers in the National Merit Scholarship Semifinalist list for Houston if they were exhibiting the same level of cognitive performance as whites. As I pointed out, they appear to be 7% of the population of Houston. The list has about 250 names. One might expect about 15-20 Nigerian names if they were performing at the same level as whites, yet there appear to be none, by your account. This strongly suggests that their actual level of performance is far lower than that of whites (or Asians, who always do quite well).

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    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    I understood the point behind your choice of Houston quite well but I do not think you understood one of my points. If Nigerians are not significantly represented in the national achievement lists or the national semifinalist lists then they may not be taking the PSAT at the same rates as others (including Black Americans who are not of Nigerian origin) relative to their population. The example I gave with Harold Ekeh was to suggest that he might not even have taken the PSAT yet he was a semifinalist with the Intel Science Talent search which as far as I can tell is actually a more difficult or more selective recognition to achieve and his academic performance in general was clearly stellar.

    Also the logic of your analysis could be reversed. I mentioned earlier about how the lady I knew that graduated in 2006 and later went to Stanford was from a DFW suburb. This was a suburb that was far less diverse than Houston and I would be surprised if I were to find out that there were even up to 50 families of Nigerian origin in that city. Yet she was a semifinalist. So despite coming from a demographic that constitutes a very small fraction of her city she was a semifinalist. She could be said to be show better performance relative to population size just as a person might see the absence of Nigerians on the list for Houston is evidence of poorer performance relative to population size. The absence of Nigerians on the list for Houston could be for other reasons though such as those Nigerians that take the PSAT and do well on it being in suburbs rather than large cities like Houston. Consider this example. There is a suburb near Houston called Sugar Land (funny name) where I know that some of the more affluent and better educated Nigerians (compared to the ones in the actual city of Houston that is) stay. Sugar Land is the center of the Fort Bend Independent School District.

    If you look at the Fort Bend Independent School District list of semifinalists for 2014 you see overwhelmingly Asian names

    http://www.fortbendisdnews.com/go/doc/1934/1896945/

    But on that list there is one Nigerian name: Olubusola Akinniranye

    That is a Yoruba Nigerian name. But how many Nigerians are there in the cities and towns covered by the Fort Bend Independent School District compared to whites? There are far far fewer Nigerians in the areas covered by Fort Bend Independent School District than there are white people. So once again that would be an example of Nigerians performing well relative to population size.

    Consider also the example of the lady Ngozi Nwabueze mentioned in the West Feliciana article. How many Nigerians do you think there are in the town of St Francisville? The town is only about one quarter Black to begin with and the vast majority of those Black people are not going to be Nigerian. In fact, how many Nigerians are there in Louisiana for that matter? Yet that lady was a finalist (not just semifinalist) i.e. one of the top 15,000 students in the nation.

    So I do not think your population based comparison really proves anything definitively because there are still other factors to take into account. Your analysis assumes the distribution of Nigerians that can (if they even take the PSAT) or will qualify for the semifinalist list are distributed in such a way that there is no difference between those in cities and suburbs and it assumes the Nigerian families in a city like Houston have the same level of affluence and education as Asians or whites in that same city. Asians are nearly 4% of the entire population of Texas whereas people of Nigerian descent are only a tiny fraction (much less than 1%) of the nearly 12% of the population of Texas that is Black and I would not be surprised if there is simply a much much larger contingent of 'elite' Asian families in cities like Houston than there are 'elite' Nigerian families in those same cities. Your analysis needs to take into account a wider range of factors.

    Another thing is that the estimate on Wikipedia may be inaccurate. The source cited (which is not from a study) says that there may be 150,000 but the sentence it is on comes immediately after another sentence in that paragraph of the Wikipedia article about the "Greater Houston" area so the 150,000 if it is accurate may not be for the city of Houston alone but the greater Houston area.

    This source, which is a government source:

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/4835000.html

    Says the actual population (2010 stats are the latest that seem to be available) of the city of Houston (not the greater Houston area) is 23.7% black. If we go with the assumption that 7% of the city of Houston is Nigerian, that would mean that nearly 1 out of every 3 black people in Houston is Nigerian - something which definitely does not tally with my experiences from visiting there and something which sounds very unlikely. I would need to see some actual study done before I accept that Nigerians are nearly one out of every 3 black people in Houston.

  143. In an earlier comment, I had brought up the performance of blacks in England on the test for medical students, with the following summary result:

    UK White mean – 2737.96 with a standard deviation of 268.15
    UK Black mean – 2430.79

    It is instructive to compare that result to the similar results for whites vs blacks in the US on the MCAT, the comparable test for potential medical students in the US. Here the summary result is:

    US White mean — 29.3 with overall SD of 5.5
    US Black mean — 22.5

    In summary comparison, blacks in the UK perform 1.15 SD below whites, and blacks in the US perform 1.27 SD below whites.

    So despite the fact that the blacks in the UK would appear to be almost entirely composed of higher achieving groups from Africa and the Caribbean, there is only a trivial difference in their performance at this very high level.

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    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    This is an inadequate analysis.

    First one of the main themes of Chisala's article was not to just lump groups into "black" and "white". It is misleading for the purposes of the discussion to say that "blacks in the UK would appear to be almost entirely composed of higher achieving groups from Africa and the Caribbean" when in fact the groups being discussed are only groups from certain countries in Africa like Nigeria and Ghana. Other blacks from African countries that are economically and educationally worse off than Nigeria and Ghana and which do not show the same rates of high educational achievement of their immigrant populations also go to medical school in the UK including students who did not actually grow up in the UK and did not receive most of their earlier schooling in the UK. Also more of the black population in the UK is of Afro-Caribbean origin than Nigerian, Ghanaian, Cameroonian, Kenyan, etc. origin and Afro-Caribbean immigrants do not actually have the same general statistics as African immigrants from countries like the aforementioned ones.
    , @Dragon Horse
    Who said Afro-Caribbeans in the UK were from a "high achieving group" background. They were not. The people who were brought after WWII to the UK were for low level work.
  144. @Enrique Cardova
    hbdchick says
    i’ve been trying to tell people for a while now that there’s more to human biodiversity than just racial differences,

    True enough, though racial differences are at the core of HBD. They are the foundation. Without a racial enemy or "Other" to sneer at, rail against, or contrast invidiously, HBD as an ideological project essentially, falls apart.

    .
    the igbo are also outbreeders (avoid cousin marriage), btw: fulani, hausa, igbo, and yoruba mating patterns (see also here).

    The Igbo are indeed relative outbreeders, but while outbreeding may be a factor in the mix it is an open question how significant it is, compared to other variables. There are other entrepreneurial peoples who are IN-BREEDERS and empire builders to boot. There are the well known Akan peoples, from whom sprang the powerful Ashanti empire, with its far-flung individual and royal trading and also gold-mining operations. There are the Mande and Wolof and Malinke- all peoples who built substantial polities, or contributed to them. The Mande for example founded the empires of Ghana and Mali.


    .
    and another potential “jews of west africa” group appears to be the bamileke of cameroon. i’m not aware of any iq data on them, though.

    The Bamileke are known or their range of craftsmanship and wide trading activities but again, it is questionable if outbreeding has much to do with this. Other factors such as political situation, geographic location etc may be much more important. The Kikuyu of Kenya for example do not seem to be great outbreeders, yet manage to dominate Kenya's economy today with their hustling entrepreneurial spirit. They have been called the "JEws of Kenya" in some places.

    Nonsense. If true about Igbo it is only another facet of HBD

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Bullshit. Black and brown people are unable to sustain, let alone _advance_ western civilization. An England with only Igbos would turn into a third-world shithole. So we need white european gentile elites who run the show in the background still.
  145. @Peter Frost
    So were the Igbo smelting iron in scales that exceeded local needs?

    Yes, that was the conclusion of Eze-Uzomaka (see above article).

    You focus on their supposed early use of metal smelting and their status as traders

    Again, their early use of metal smelting (why the snark word "supposed"?) doesn't count for much in itself. What counts is the scale of the production. We should also consider the techniques of metallurgy, which appear to be largely of indigenous origin. This was not the case with the Hausa, among whom metallurgy appeared later in time and was largely inspired by North African and Middle Eastern traditions.

    but compared to just how much the other groups accomplished, is their status as pre-literate traders really a strong avenue for social selection?

    More snark. Why not say "semi-literate" instead of "pre-literate"? This is supposed to be an academic discussion and not a political debate. Also, it's natural selection, not social selection.

    Traders, unlike farmers (who can revert to autarky), are very sensitive to market conditions. If they can't sell, they starve to death. This is what happened during the Bengal famine of 1944. The farmers survived that famine a lot better than the traders.

    I’m not talking about the 9th century, I’m talking about West Africa throughout the middle ages.

    My point was that the Igbo began to develop a market economy and show advanced cultural development (e.g., metallurgy) at a much earlier date than other West Africans. They also developed much more through their own resources and intellect.

    Again, you attach too much importance to the trappings of centralized state formation (building of monuments, palaces, etc.) By that line of reasoning, the Ashkenazi Jews were nobodies. For that matter, the English were nobodies for most of their history.

    I’m curious where you get the idea Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until then, because Portuguese accounts attest to them being developed by then, and their primary artistic tradition predates Portuguese contact by several decades. The Oyo Empire didn’t emerge until then, but Yoruba towns and cities certainly predate then, including Ile Ife and it’s art. I am skeptical how much trade with the muslims to the north influenced them, since culturally, southern nigeria had little influence from them.

    "By the 15th century, Edo as a system of protected settlements expanded into a thriving city-state. In the 15th century, the twelfth Oba in line, Oba Ewuare the Great (1440–1473) would expand the city-state to an empire.

    It was not until the 15th century during the reign of Oba Ewuare the Great that the kingdom's administrative centre, the city Ubinu, began to be known as Benin City by the Portuguese, and would later be adopted by the locals as well."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin_Empire

    With respect to the Yoruba, evidence of urbanism go no farther back than the 12th century. There is evidence of artwork but it was produced under royal patronage and not for trade.

    "Archaeologically, the settlement at Ife shows features of urbanism in the 12th - 14th century era. In the period around 1300 C.E. the artists at Ife developed a refined and naturalistic sculptural tradition in terracotta, stone and copper alloy - copper, brass, and bronze many of which appear to have been created under the patronage of King Obalufon II
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoruba_people#Oyo_and_Ile-Ife

    The earliest Hausa kingdom Kanem-Borno did not begin to expand until the 13th century, when it is first mentioned in Muslim texts.

    and while their [the Nok] culture may not have survived, they as a people did not die out- they gave rise to multiple other Nigerian peoples, including the Hausa.

    You seem to subscribe to the Truth school of HBD.

    Without culture, there can be no gene-culture coevolution. If a cultural tradition dies out, it can no longer maintain the patterns of thought and behavior that it once supported. If you don't use it, you lose it. Even if the Nok were ancestral to the Hausa, the people who survived the extinction of the Nok culture would have been living under less advanced conditions. What was once useful would no longer be useful.

    The first civilizations in the “old world” were in Egypt and Sumer and also in warm climates in Mesoamerica in the “new world”. The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from “cold” environments at all.

    Excuse me, but aren't you now arguing against your previous comment? You know, the stuff about cognition being favored by adaptation to northern climates? If I remember, I was the one who was saying that this was merely part of the overall picture.

    Most of the human gene pool has its origins in people who lived in northern Eurasia 10,000 years ago. We see this in the Eurasiatic language macrofamily and the more hypothetical Borean macrofamily, both of which are centered on northern Eurasia. There seems to have been a series of southward-moving demographic expansions since the end of the last ice age.

    They simply adopted it through trade.

    Just as our ancestors adopted the Phoenician alphabet and Arabic numerals.

    But literally every part of this paragraph is completely false and very strongly contradicted by every credible academic publication which has ever been published on the Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa.

    I've presented my sources, both in the comments and in the original article. I can only conclude that we are in fundamental disagreement.

    You have no evidence of a slave trade with the Sahel or North Africa or the Middle East being responsible for the rise of any of the kingdoms of any of the peoples – Igbo, Yoruba, Benin, or Hausa

    In the case of the Igbo, there is no such evidence, and I never said there was. The Hausa were definitely involved in the transsaharan slave trade. In fact, slaves were the main commodity that they exported. The Yoruba and the Benin were more peripheral to this trade, and I would certainly give more weight to the Atlantic slave trade in their case.

    Peter Frost you quoted a wikipedia article on Benin. That is unfortunate. Benin became an empire several decades before the Portuguese arrived and when the Portuguese got there they found an already thriving state that was already influential in the region. You do not seem to understand that it had already existed as a city-state even before the 15th century which is contrary to what you initially said. The claim in the badly written wikipedia article that it expanded into a city state in the 15th century is nonsense and is contradicted by every professional study of that state.

    You also said “With respect to the Yoruba, evidence of urbanism go no farther back than the 12th century. .”

    This is just completely false. Why do you not just read up on these peoples and cultures beforehand if you are going to discuss them?

    You also said “The earliest Hausa kingdom Kanem-Borno did not begin to expand until the 13th century, when it is first mentioned in Muslim texts.

    Kanem-Borno was not even Hausa and the first mention of Kanem is from the 9th century not the 13th century anyway.

    You said “Excuse me, but aren’t you now arguing against your previous comment? You know, the stuff about cognition being favored by adaptation to northern climates? If I remember, I was the one who was saying that this was merely part of the overall picture.

    Most of the human gene pool has its origins in people who lived in northern Eurasia 10,000 years ago. We see this in the Eurasiatic language macrofamily and the more hypothetical Borean macrofamily, both of which are centered on northern Eurasia. There seems to have been a series of southward-moving demographic expansions since the end of the last ice age.”

    No I am not in any way arguing against my previous comment. I did not say anything about “cognition being favored by adaptation to northern climates”. You must be confusing me with someone else. I was simply countering your claim that “cold environments” have anything in particular to do with the first real civilizations. The rest of this paragraph is speculation.

    You say “I’ve presented my sources, both in the comments and in the original article. I can only conclude that we are in fundamental disagreement.

    You go farther than your sources allow and make unfounded speculations about peoples that you have clearly read very little about in order to make your arguments.

    You say “In the case of the Igbo, there is no such evidence, and I never said there was. The Hausa were definitely involved in the transsaharan slave trade. In fact, slaves were the main commodity that they exported. The Yoruba and the Benin were more peripheral to this trade, and I would certainly give more weight to the Atlantic slave trade in their case.

    The Yoruba and Benin were not involved in the transsaharan slave trade in any significant numbers if at all. The Atlantic slave trade came about long after both groups had already established states. There is no evidence that the transsaharan slave trade is what caused the Hausa city states to develop either. You are simply making things up.

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  146. Sure Nigerians are not as well represented as say Asians or whites. In California for example, Asians were 11% of the high school students and more than 60% of NMS semifinalists. But the National Merit Scholarship is only one measure, and a limited one at that, based on one test only, and only a small number of students nationwide take the PSAT/NMSQT pre-screening to begin with. Its a high end measure -to be eligible for scholarships, high school juniors must score among the top 1% of test-takers in their home state- and then there is further weeding out on top of this. Indeed, National Merit Scholarship (NMS) semifinalists represent about the top half of one percent of a given state’s scores on the PSAT. That Nigerians do not match the heavy Asian representation at the finish line is nothing earth-shattering – 99% of white Americans don’t match up either.

    On other more broadly based, more representative measures however, the Nigerians outperform the white average. Nor is this a US phenomenon. Data from Britain on some schooling measures, indicates that White British children are falling behind pupils from ethnic minorities, including Black Africans, even though the white children start out with advantages over the culluds, including starting compulsory education earlier, and having a better handle on the English language than many of the immigrants, or immigrant background children.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8002214/White-British-pupils-make-less-progress-than-ethnic-minorities.html

    And as Ron Unz’s well buttressed data shows, massive Asian over-representation on the ultra selective NSM is not being reflected in admission to elite colleges, indicating that whites are discriminating against Asians through various means, such as manipulated admission processes, or “legacy” type quotas for mostly whites. Nationwide, Unz estimates that 25–30% of NMS semifinalists in 2010 were Asians, far higher than their enrollment in the Ivies. The game some suggest is being rigged to keep Asians back. Others have long argued that the controllers of the game may be Jews who have the most to gain by slowing down Asian advance, and perhaps are overrepresented in admission decision structures. Whether this is the exact situation remains under debate, but whatever the case, Unz’ data is clear.

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  147. @FirstPerson
    1. You say that "That’s part of the reason. The need to adapt to cold and a yearly cycle led to an early “industrial revolution” (manufacture of tailored clothing and fine needles, deep storage pits for refrigeration, untended traps and snares, etc.). These adaptations predisposed northern Eurasians to move into new cultural environments, farther south, that would become the first civilizations.

    But that was an ongoing co-evolutionary process. Human nature didn’t congeal into a final form at any one point in time.
    "

    The first civilizations in the "old world" were in Egypt and Sumer and also in warm climates in Mesoamerica in the "new world". The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from "cold" environments at all. The rest of the Mediterranean was affected by Egypt's development of writing, among other things.

    2. You say that "They had an ideographic script that may have had logographic elements. It is attested among the Igbo as far back as the 16th century, although it was undoubtedly in use earlier. It was sufficient for use in trade and even court cases."

    That script was invented by a completely different ethnic group who are not closely related to the Igbo called the Ekoi. They simply adopted it through trade.

    3. You say that "You’re pushing the limits of exactitude. Benin didn’t emerge as a city-state until the 15th century, apparently in response to contact with Portuguese traders. The Oyo (proto-Yoruba) empire didn’t emerge until the late 14th century, perhaps under the influence of the Sahelian kingdoms farther north (which were stimulated by trade in slaves and gold with the Muslim world). The Hausa kingdoms didn’t really emerge until the 15th century, again because of trade in slaves and other products (leather, gold, cloth) with other Sahelian kingdoms and the Muslim world.

    But literally every part of this paragraph is completely false and very strongly contradicted by every credible academic publication which has ever been published on the Yoruba, Benin, and Hausa. There is strong archaeological (and even written evidence) which contradicts all of what you state here. All of this is false.

    You say "Finally, when I wrote “the slave trade” I wasn’t referring solely to the Atlantic slave trade. There was also the overland trade with the Sahel and thence the Middle East."

    You have no evidence of a slave trade with the Sahel or North Africa or the Middle East being responsible for the rise of any of the kingdoms of any of the peoples - Igbo, Yoruba, Benin, or Hausa - that have been discussed here. You have no such evidence because none exists to support that idea.

    Mr. Frost, have you actually read any works on African history? This entire thread, and much of what you claim in your posts are filled with made up ideas that have no support in academic sources.

    The first real civilizations seem to actually originate not from “cold” environments at all. The rest of the Mediterranean was affected by Egypt’s development of writing, among other things.

    Indeed. It should be noted that some scholars show writing being developed some centuries earlier in Egypt than in Mesopotamia (Darnell 2003, Dreyer 1999). The alphabet in use today was also derived in part from Egyptian scripts and writing, adapted by Semitic speakers. (Sacks 2003- Language Visible)

    .
    That script was invented by a completely different ethnic group who are not closely related to the Igbo called the Ekoi. They simply adopted it through trade.
    But both Ekoi and Igbo fall within the same general culture area., and the scripts, which have partial logographic and syllabic elements, have been in use by various language groups in southern Nigeria from before Islamic times- including both Igbo and Ekoi. This would show the Igbo capability for adaptation, but also indicates that the Igbo tapped into and shared the general regional culture, and cannot be viewed as super-exceptions. This regional sharing would incorporate the elements Peter talks about. The Igbo thus did not need to develop metallurgy or writing independently. The regional cultures already provided the nursery for adaptation into Igbo culture, and this in turn provided the basis for adaptation when the British empire’s education framework appeared.

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  148. @candid_observer
    The point behind my choice of Houston, and the numbers I cited, were that one would certainly expect to see Nigerians turning up in some significant numbers in the National Merit Scholarship Semifinalist list for Houston if they were exhibiting the same level of cognitive performance as whites. As I pointed out, they appear to be 7% of the population of Houston. The list has about 250 names. One might expect about 15-20 Nigerian names if they were performing at the same level as whites, yet there appear to be none, by your account. This strongly suggests that their actual level of performance is far lower than that of whites (or Asians, who always do quite well).

    I understood the point behind your choice of Houston quite well but I do not think you understood one of my points. If Nigerians are not significantly represented in the national achievement lists or the national semifinalist lists then they may not be taking the PSAT at the same rates as others (including Black Americans who are not of Nigerian origin) relative to their population. The example I gave with Harold Ekeh was to suggest that he might not even have taken the PSAT yet he was a semifinalist with the Intel Science Talent search which as far as I can tell is actually a more difficult or more selective recognition to achieve and his academic performance in general was clearly stellar.

    Also the logic of your analysis could be reversed. I mentioned earlier about how the lady I knew that graduated in 2006 and later went to Stanford was from a DFW suburb. This was a suburb that was far less diverse than Houston and I would be surprised if I were to find out that there were even up to 50 families of Nigerian origin in that city. Yet she was a semifinalist. So despite coming from a demographic that constitutes a very small fraction of her city she was a semifinalist. She could be said to be show better performance relative to population size just as a person might see the absence of Nigerians on the list for Houston is evidence of poorer performance relative to population size. The absence of Nigerians on the list for Houston could be for other reasons though such as those Nigerians that take the PSAT and do well on it being in suburbs rather than large cities like Houston. Consider this example. There is a suburb near Houston called Sugar Land (funny name) where I know that some of the more affluent and better educated Nigerians (compared to the ones in the actual city of Houston that is) stay. Sugar Land is the center of the Fort Bend Independent School District.

    If you look at the Fort Bend Independent School District list of semifinalists for 2014 you see overwhelmingly Asian names

    http://www.fortbendisdnews.com/go/doc/1934/1896945/

    But on that list there is one Nigerian name: Olubusola Akinniranye

    That is a Yoruba Nigerian name. But how many Nigerians are there in the cities and towns covered by the Fort Bend Independent School District compared to whites? There are far far fewer Nigerians in the areas covered by Fort Bend Independent School District than there are white people. So once again that would be an example of Nigerians performing well relative to population size.

    Consider also the example of the lady Ngozi Nwabueze mentioned in the West Feliciana article. How many Nigerians do you think there are in the town of St Francisville? The town is only about one quarter Black to begin with and the vast majority of those Black people are not going to be Nigerian. In fact, how many Nigerians are there in Louisiana for that matter? Yet that lady was a finalist (not just semifinalist) i.e. one of the top 15,000 students in the nation.

    So I do not think your population based comparison really proves anything definitively because there are still other factors to take into account. Your analysis assumes the distribution of Nigerians that can (if they even take the PSAT) or will qualify for the semifinalist list are distributed in such a way that there is no difference between those in cities and suburbs and it assumes the Nigerian families in a city like Houston have the same level of affluence and education as Asians or whites in that same city. Asians are nearly 4% of the entire population of Texas whereas people of Nigerian descent are only a tiny fraction (much less than 1%) of the nearly 12% of the population of Texas that is Black and I would not be surprised if there is simply a much much larger contingent of ‘elite’ Asian families in cities like Houston than there are ‘elite’ Nigerian families in those same cities. Your analysis needs to take into account a wider range of factors.

    Another thing is that the estimate on Wikipedia may be inaccurate. The source cited (which is not from a study) says that there may be 150,000 but the sentence it is on comes immediately after another sentence in that paragraph of the Wikipedia article about the “Greater Houston” area so the 150,000 if it is accurate may not be for the city of Houston alone but the greater Houston area.

    This source, which is a government source:

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/4835000.html

    Says the actual population (2010 stats are the latest that seem to be available) of the city of Houston (not the greater Houston area) is 23.7% black. If we go with the assumption that 7% of the city of Houston is Nigerian, that would mean that nearly 1 out of every 3 black people in Houston is Nigerian – something which definitely does not tally with my experiences from visiting there and something which sounds very unlikely. I would need to see some actual study done before I accept that Nigerians are nearly one out of every 3 black people in Houston.

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  149. @candid_observer
    In an earlier comment, I had brought up the performance of blacks in England on the test for medical students, with the following summary result:

    UK White mean – 2737.96 with a standard deviation of 268.15
    UK Black mean – 2430.79
     
    It is instructive to compare that result to the similar results for whites vs blacks in the US on the MCAT, the comparable test for potential medical students in the US. Here the summary result is:

    US White mean -- 29.3 with overall SD of 5.5
    US Black mean -- 22.5

    In summary comparison, blacks in the UK perform 1.15 SD below whites, and blacks in the US perform 1.27 SD below whites.

    So despite the fact that the blacks in the UK would appear to be almost entirely composed of higher achieving groups from Africa and the Caribbean, there is only a trivial difference in their performance at this very high level.

    This is an inadequate analysis.

    First one of the main themes of Chisala’s article was not to just lump groups into “black” and “white”. It is misleading for the purposes of the discussion to say that “blacks in the UK would appear to be almost entirely composed of higher achieving groups from Africa and the Caribbean” when in fact the groups being discussed are only groups from certain countries in Africa like Nigeria and Ghana. Other blacks from African countries that are economically and educationally worse off than Nigeria and Ghana and which do not show the same rates of high educational achievement of their immigrant populations also go to medical school in the UK including students who did not actually grow up in the UK and did not receive most of their earlier schooling in the UK. Also more of the black population in the UK is of Afro-Caribbean origin than Nigerian, Ghanaian, Cameroonian, Kenyan, etc. origin and Afro-Caribbean immigrants do not actually have the same general statistics as African immigrants from countries like the aforementioned ones.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    My analysis based on medical school cognitive test performance is of course not refined enough to come to any precise results regarding, say, Nigerians and Ghanans (?) from the UK. But the problem with your objection is that there's almost no way to make the numbers work so that Nigerians and Ghanans do as well as whites on this medical school test.

    There are about 180K Nigerians and 94K Ghanans in England, according to wikipedia. There are about 1.8M blacks in England. So between the two, they comprise about 15% of blacks in England. But they are, by your assumption, by a good measure the more able of the blacks in England. Yet only quite good students will be in any kind of position to be a medical student. So if they are by a good measure the better students among the blacks, then their numbers should dominate those of medical students -- probably in excess of half of them, under your assumptions.

    But then they pretty much must perform quite poorly compared to whites, because the average for black medical students can't be 1.14 SD below whites unless this dominant portion also performs poorly.

    You see, there really is no way these numbers can be disaggregated and be consistent with the idea that students of Nigerian or Ghanan ancestry perform nearly as well as whites.
  150. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    So despite the fact that the blacks in the UK would appear to be almost entirely composed of higher achieving groups from Africa and the Caribbean, there is only a trivial difference in their performance at this very high level.

    I’m not sure this is true and a potential source of confusion.

    The early Afro-Caribbean immigration was mostly unskilled labor and some of the African immigration e.g. Somalis, are refugee dominated and also mostly unskilled but then on top of that there are other African populations which seem skewed to people who had the ability to raise some cash / get into university so I think the black distribution is actually skewed in both directions: high and low and away from the middle.

    A likely source of confusion when averaged together.

    .

    You focus on their supposed early use of metal smelting and their status as traders

    If you’re looking for a sub-group with a higher mean IQ then I’d have thought endogamous castes engaged in relatively high status / wealth activities would be the place to look e.g. metal working

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacksmiths_of_western_Africa

    or maybe do it the other way round – creating an outcaste population like the Osu among the Igbo

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_Africa

    (which reminds me of that French outcaste group whose name I forget)

    .

    Mean IQ increasing with latitude.

    I think the most likely answer is base IQ rose with latitude (among HGs) (just for illustration say 70, 80, 90) and then there’s a civilization bonus on top (just for illustration say +10) due to more complex societies having specific niches with higher cognitive requirements which people compete for.

    I think you see a hint of this when you have classical writers describing people to their north or south. When they describe people to the north they mention physical differences a lot but rarely anything IQ related whereas they often do about peoples to the south.

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  151. Well, I’ll admit I haven’t looked through this extremely long comment-thread, but isn’t there a pretty easy way to get a handle on the relative academic performance of e.g. Nigerian-Americans vs. American blacks in general?

    The National Achievement Scholarship Program is only open to black students in the U.S., and has since 1964 provided awards to 1600 top-scoring students each year based on the PSAT (an exact parallel to the NMS system). If someone manages to track down the lists of winners, the Nigerian-Ibo names should be very distinctive and easy to recognize, as well as those of lots of other African immigrant groups. In addition, Jamaican blacks and others from the Caribbean often have somewhat distinctive first and last names, and perhaps could be roughly estimated as well.

    Since a large majority of American blacks have ordinary Anglo-Saxon names, their numbers are normally very difficult to determine, but since this competition is only open to black students, the problem disappears.

    Furthermore, the winners on this list could then be cross-checked against the NMS list from the same state or city to determine if their scores were high enough to reach that more difficult cut-off as well.

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    • Replies: @candid_observer
    Sounds like a good idea, Ron.

    I've looked at some of the lists of National Merit Scholarship semifinalists, but I can't easily distinguish some of the South Asian names from the African names, and your approach narrows down the prospects pretty well.

    Probably, though, those who have a good sense of, say, African names would be able to spot them reliably enough anyway directly in the list of Merit semifinalists.

    , @FirstPerson
    This is not a good method to resolve this issue. I talked about this in my discussion with candid_observer.

    Harold Ekeh, a Nigerian student who performed very well academically and was an Intel Talent Search semifinalist may not even have taken the PSAT. Nor is there any mention of whether Saheela Ibraheem took the PSAT and got national achievement or national merit recognition. She might have skipped it entirely. I also mentioned in my conversation with candid_observer one national merit semifinalist of Nigerian ancestry that I was acquainted with personally and I was able to find one other semifinalist and one finalist after 15-20 minutes of looking online. None of these sorts of people - people like Ekeh and Ibraheem, who may not even have taken the PSAT, and people like the semifinalists and finalist I mentioned - would be reflected in such a comparison about national achievement scholars even though they are all Nigerian and would be relevant to determining how well Nigerians do.

    You also stated "In addition, Jamaican blacks and others from the Caribbean often have somewhat distinctive first and last names, and perhaps could be roughly estimated as well."

    But this is basically untrue. There are a few English names with some Caribbeans are more fond of than others but this is not as helpful as you think because many of them still have ordinary English names which are not that distinctive and are more or less the same as the English or other European names borne by American blacks.

    In addition there are some black Africans with first and last names that are purely in non-African languages like Hebrew names (because of Christianity), Muslim names (because of Islam), or European (the former president of Nigeria was named Goodluck Johnathan - a combination of European words and a Hebrew Christian name). But this also applies to American blacks, as some have Christian or Muslim names or European names in various combinations also.
  152. If it can be shown that some African groups have higher cognitive ability, doesn’t the converse become plausible and even expectable

    Only if one is looking at it from the standpoint of what the empirical evidence shows. Who likes to hear about clever black Africans exceeding the white average but the indigenous upper middle class? They would never admit to believing that they are cleverer than the working class whites for HBD reasons, and insist it is all a matter of effortful aspiration and applying oneself. Hence the poor indigenous are pegged as vicious and lazy victims of their own beliefs.

    So when exulting at clever sub Saharan Africans outdoing whites in education, or clever immigrants outdoing the indigenous in everything, including impregnating indigenous women (the supreme liberal good) the mainstream intelligentsia are never in contact with any part of a biological argument. Intellectuals have a concealed adversarial relationship to the mass of the population.

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  153. @Enrique Cardova
    but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don't use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians? Now go through some dubious contortions to try to shoehorn them into one of your "standing" categories.. lol

    .
    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    And this "standard belief " has been pretty much debunked by credible scholarship.

    Evolution, brain size, and the national IQ of peoples ... - Jelte Wicherts 2010
    http://wicherts.socsci.uva.nl/wichertsPAIDrejoinder.pdf

    http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2014/03/hbd-heriditarian-race-reality-claims.html

    www.anth.uconn.edu/faculty/mcbrearty/Pdf/McB%20&%20Brooks%202000%20TRTW.pdf

    .
    then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    Actually there are several peoples (see Sierra Leone for example) who have attained high levels of educational achievement in their local societies. However many people from these groups however have not migrated out to the extent of the Igbo, so test measures from the UK are not available on them, but they like the Igbo, show early adoption to modern Western education, which yields enduring advantages on assorted modern tests. This is indeed a common pattern not only in Africa but elsewhere. Scotland, once a backwater, adapted to British hegemony over many centuries, with fulsome benefit and achievement for the Scots, through their centuries of association with a larger hegemon's framework. Scots went on for example to do well in the educational system of Britain over the centuries.

    .
    Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?
    Actually this is one of the LEAST parsimonious conclusions. "Time immemorial" would cover all data up to the present era, hardly a "parsimonious" way of doing things. Peter's argument is reasonable in the sense that elements of the Igbo culture, coalesced and found linkages with the incoming British culture that enabled more rapid adaptation to the modern industrial era, and its educational structures.

    .
    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    Actually credible scholarship already quoted (Relethford 2000, et al) has already debunked and dismissed your obsolete "white blood" theory. Igbo variation in skin color is nothing special- it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called 'Red" Igbo, to numerous other variants in between. Such variation is nothing new, and nothing special in Africa.

    “Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. T
    his study examines regional differences in within-population
    diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin
    reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight
    geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe,
    West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the
    New World. Regional differences in local within-population
    diversity were examined using two measures of variability:
    the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation.
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits.”
    –Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.

    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.

    it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called ‘Red” Igbo, to numerous other variants in between.

    Bigger than the difference between Swedes and South Indians?

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    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    What is the measurement you are using for the magnitude of difference? And would Swedes have more variation in skin colors than South Indians or less?
    , @Numinous

    Bigger than the difference between Swedes and South Indians?
     
    There is great skin color variation among South Indians too. You won't find anyone as pale as a Swede, but there are people who could pass for light-skinned Middle Easterners or Greeks. For example, this lady is a South Indian.
  154. @Enrique Cardova
    but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.

    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don't use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians? Now go through some dubious contortions to try to shoehorn them into one of your "standing" categories.. lol

    .
    Furthermore, the standard HBD belief is that the increased intelligence of Europeans and East Asians in comparison to Sub-Saharan Africans is due to the selection pressures brought about by having to survive winters for many millenia.

    And this "standard belief " has been pretty much debunked by credible scholarship.

    Evolution, brain size, and the national IQ of peoples ... - Jelte Wicherts 2010
    http://wicherts.socsci.uva.nl/wichertsPAIDrejoinder.pdf

    http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2014/03/hbd-heriditarian-race-reality-claims.html

    www.anth.uconn.edu/faculty/mcbrearty/Pdf/McB%20&%20Brooks%202000%20TRTW.pdf

    .
    then one would expect to find numerous examples of peoples throughout Africa arising from similar geographic circumstances exhibiting Igbo levels of educational achievement.

    Actually there are several peoples (see Sierra Leone for example) who have attained high levels of educational achievement in their local societies. However many people from these groups however have not migrated out to the extent of the Igbo, so test measures from the UK are not available on them, but they like the Igbo, show early adoption to modern Western education, which yields enduring advantages on assorted modern tests. This is indeed a common pattern not only in Africa but elsewhere. Scotland, once a backwater, adapted to British hegemony over many centuries, with fulsome benefit and achievement for the Scots, through their centuries of association with a larger hegemon's framework. Scots went on for example to do well in the educational system of Britain over the centuries.

    .
    Isn’t is therefore more parsimonious to conclude the Igbo have been smarter than their neighbors from time immemorial?
    Actually this is one of the LEAST parsimonious conclusions. "Time immemorial" would cover all data up to the present era, hardly a "parsimonious" way of doing things. Peter's argument is reasonable in the sense that elements of the Igbo culture, coalesced and found linkages with the incoming British culture that enabled more rapid adaptation to the modern industrial era, and its educational structures.

    .
    And as other commenters here have noted, there IS a widespread stereotype of the Igbo being light-skinned amongst other Nigerians. All the above reasons lead me to conclude that the hypothesis that high Igbo intelligence is at least partly the result of Eurasian admixture can not not be dismissed so quickly.

    Actually credible scholarship already quoted (Relethford 2000, et al) has already debunked and dismissed your obsolete "white blood" theory. Igbo variation in skin color is nothing special- it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called 'Red" Igbo, to numerous other variants in between. Such variation is nothing new, and nothing special in Africa.

    “Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions. T
    his study examines regional differences in within-population
    diversity of human skin color. Published data on skin
    reflectance were collected for 98 male samples from eight
    geographic regions: sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, Europe,
    West Asia, Southwest Asia, South Asia, Australasia, and the
    New World. Regional differences in local within-population
    diversity were examined using two measures of variability:
    the sample variance and the sample coefficient of variation.
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits.”
    –Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.

    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.

    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don’t use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians?

    Notice I said 3-4 macro-races. The 4 is there for a reason, as Australoids are often classified as the fourth. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you start doing the lol thing.

    And calling something obsolete gruel doesn’t magically make it so. And what modern scientists may or may not use just speaks to the ideological committments of modern scientists. This website recently published an article by Robert Trivers, the sections on Gould and Lewontin show perfect examples of ideology trumping a dispassionate search for the truth.

    Also, simply NOTING the diversity of skin color amongst sub-Saharan Africans is not the same as EXPLAINING said diversity, no matter how many fancy articles you site. It is true than the San have a yellowish complexion. Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned. When one sees an African-American with a lighter complexion, one naturally assumes partial European ancestry. So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans? Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory? Again, the Razib Khan article states that Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians. Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement.

    And why is it that the pattern of light-skinned elites has manifested itself over and over throughout world history? South America, the Caribbean, the Middle East, India, and now Nigeria. Weird, no? Ideologically addled people such as yourself can write 20 posts and link to 50 articles all you want, the individual trees do not obscure the forest at all.

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    • Replies: @Sean
    They don't if you use the hide function for certain commenters.
    , @FirstPerson
    "Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned."

    You probably have never been to Africa. Bantu is a linguistic group and there are lots of peoples within the Bantu linguistic group with skin colors that are different shades of brown than "exceedingly dark-skinned" and this variation occurs for different groups but also within groups as well. But west Africans are mostly not Bantu anyway.

    There is also no evidence of "light skinned elites" in Nigeria. Many of the Igbos are dark brown rather than light brown skinned and many neighboring groups also have light skinned peoples and dark skin colors among them as well shades in between light brown and dark brown. Igbos and neighboring groups vary in skin color just as Europeans and East Asians do even without admixture.

    , @Enrique Cardova
    Notice I said 3-4 macro-races. The 4 is there for a reason, as Australoids are often classified as the fourth. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you start doing the lol thing.

    Maybe you should be more careful about what you right, for you yourself specifically asserted three races- Quote: "but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands." And up above you say nothing about Australians until I mentioned them, nor did you include Australians in your 3-part "macro" races division.


    .
    his website recently published an article by Robert Trivers, the sections on Gould and Lewontin show perfect examples of ideology trumping a dispassionate search for the truth.
    Curiously enough, you can proffer nothing specific to support your claims. How exactly does Lewontin support you for example? Why are specifics are missing in your alleged "dispassionate search for the truth?"

    .
    Also, simply NOTING the diversity of skin color amongst sub-Saharan Africans is not the same as EXPLAINING said diversity, no matter how many fancy articles you site.
    Actually the citation already explains it. Let's look at an excerpt of what scholar Relethford says above again- there is nothing "fancy" about it:

    “Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions...
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits.”

    –Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.
    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.

    As can be seen Relethford references (a) the already greater diversity of sub-Saharan Africans, which takes in genetic diversity and craniometric traits- nothing surprising given the evolution of anatomically modern humans in Africa. The origin point has greater diversity- everything else is a SUBSET of that diversity. Skin color is simply consistent with said pattern as Relethford shows. (b) Natural selection. This is basic Anthropology 101- nothing "fancy" about it.

    .
    It is true than the San have a yellowish complexion. Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned. When one sees an African-American with a lighter complexion, one naturally assumes partial European ancestry. So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans.
    You need to go through your thought process logically, for your notion that lighter skin in Africa must be due to some sort of "race mix" is contradicted by your own example. You mention the San, and admit they have pale skin, but don't seem to realize that your own statement contradicts your thought process. How did the San get yellow skin? Ancient Chinese colonists to the Kalahari or the Cape? Where is the evidence of these mysterious "Asiatic race mixers"? You don't have any.

    .
    Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory?
    What admixture in pre-history gave the San yellow skin? You make all these sweeping pronouncements, but can produce nothing credible to back them up.

    .
    Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians.
    But even if this is so, how did said Neanderthal DNA produce light skin in Nigerians? Once again, you merely assert that it is so, without producing a shred of credible evidence.

    .
    Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement.
    But yet again, you only offer your own dubious opinion, without the slightest bit of credible evidence. Precisely when and how was said admixture and how did it affect Igbo intellectual achievement? You made the claim, but you have precious little to support it. When are you going to produce something credible?

    .
    And why is it that the pattern of light-skinned elites has manifested itself over and over throughout world history? South America, the Caribbean, the Middle East, India, and now Nigeria. Weird, no?
    No actually what's weird is your confused, laughable logic. The Igbo were no "light-skinned elite." In fact as shown above they did not match the power and sophistication of other more powerful empires and cultures around. And none of these other cultures were ruled by any "light skinned elite." Since when are the rulers of Benin for example a "light skinned" elite?

    .
    Ideologically addled people such as yourself can write 20 posts and link to 50 articles all you want, the individual trees do not obscure the forest at all.
    The only "addled" person is you, and I link to credible articles that debunk the rubbish you are pushing. You seem to be scared of actual credible scholarship- which is why you continuously try to avoid it. You and other intellectual lightweights can "hide" that scholarship, but it still does not change the fact that your claims are both dubious and false.

    , @Dipwill
    "Again, the Razib Khan article states that Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians. Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement."

    It didn't. The idea Neanderthals contributed anything to the intelligence of Eurasians has little basis. Neanderthal and cro-magnon brain size was identical, and larger brain size was typical throughout the world in the past, including Africa and Australia.

    Neanderthal admixture is not found only in Nigerians, it is found in most africans, and originated from about several thousand years with breeding between africans and north africans, not neanderthals themselves, who died out even longer ago.

    There are other african peoples who are lighter than the Igbo who were nonetheless much more primitive than the rest of Africa, like the pygmies, khoisan, sandawe, hadza and some other extinct groups, who were all mostly stone-age hunter-gatherers.

    Stop asking the question (and making digs like "Ideologically addled people such as yourself" when you argue things like this), because it's based heavily on the finding neanderthal brain size was larger than the average for MODERN humans, not humans around the time neanderthals existed.

    , @Truth

    So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans? Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory?
     
    LOL! Hey Dawg, you just splintered the wood beams in your foundation. I know all you have is a hammer, but you aren't supposed to use it on screws!
  155. @Qasim
    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don’t use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians?

    Notice I said 3-4 macro-races. The 4 is there for a reason, as Australoids are often classified as the fourth. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you start doing the lol thing.

    And calling something obsolete gruel doesn't magically make it so. And what modern scientists may or may not use just speaks to the ideological committments of modern scientists. This website recently published an article by Robert Trivers, the sections on Gould and Lewontin show perfect examples of ideology trumping a dispassionate search for the truth.

    Also, simply NOTING the diversity of skin color amongst sub-Saharan Africans is not the same as EXPLAINING said diversity, no matter how many fancy articles you site. It is true than the San have a yellowish complexion. Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned. When one sees an African-American with a lighter complexion, one naturally assumes partial European ancestry. So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans? Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory? Again, the Razib Khan article states that Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians. Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement.

    And why is it that the pattern of light-skinned elites has manifested itself over and over throughout world history? South America, the Caribbean, the Middle East, India, and now Nigeria. Weird, no? Ideologically addled people such as yourself can write 20 posts and link to 50 articles all you want, the individual trees do not obscure the forest at all.

    They don’t if you use the hide function for certain commenters.

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  156. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'll admit I haven't looked through this extremely long comment-thread, but isn't there a pretty easy way to get a handle on the relative academic performance of e.g. Nigerian-Americans vs. American blacks in general?

    The National Achievement Scholarship Program is only open to black students in the U.S., and has since 1964 provided awards to 1600 top-scoring students each year based on the PSAT (an exact parallel to the NMS system). If someone manages to track down the lists of winners, the Nigerian-Ibo names should be very distinctive and easy to recognize, as well as those of lots of other African immigrant groups. In addition, Jamaican blacks and others from the Caribbean often have somewhat distinctive first and last names, and perhaps could be roughly estimated as well.

    Since a large majority of American blacks have ordinary Anglo-Saxon names, their numbers are normally very difficult to determine, but since this competition is only open to black students, the problem disappears.

    Furthermore, the winners on this list could then be cross-checked against the NMS list from the same state or city to determine if their scores were high enough to reach that more difficult cut-off as well.

    Sounds like a good idea, Ron.

    I’ve looked at some of the lists of National Merit Scholarship semifinalists, but I can’t easily distinguish some of the South Asian names from the African names, and your approach narrows down the prospects pretty well.

    Probably, though, those who have a good sense of, say, African names would be able to spot them reliably enough anyway directly in the list of Merit semifinalists.

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  157. @Truth

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?
     
    Yeah, sounds good.

    But, Truth, you surprising man – to my knowledge (and I follow comments here way more than I should) none of those guys have ever claimed anything of the sort!

    Maybe you could give me a link?

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    • Replies: @Truth
    There is a great story I read once about some educated Methodist Preachers, Doctorate types, going on a trip to Japan to study Zen in, In , I believe it was, the 18th century.

    They spend their time whore-mongering with the Japanese girls, getting wasted on sakki, demanding things, and not taking baths. These were of course their customs, and they were amongst heathens, so why wouldn't they take a little advantage?

    Finally after some time, they got around to a little bit of philosophical discussion with the monks, however instead of trying to understand, one of the Christians took it upon himself to play "faith gotcha" with them, asking the sort of philosophical questions for which there is not answer such as "If God is all-powerful, can he create a rock to heavy for himself to lift."

    The monk, being confused by the foreigner's style of "mutual learning", stopped him for a second and asked him:

    "Sir, why is it that you are so concerned about the condition of your beard, when the executioner long ago removed your head?
  158. @FirstPerson
    This is an inadequate analysis.

    First one of the main themes of Chisala's article was not to just lump groups into "black" and "white". It is misleading for the purposes of the discussion to say that "blacks in the UK would appear to be almost entirely composed of higher achieving groups from Africa and the Caribbean" when in fact the groups being discussed are only groups from certain countries in Africa like Nigeria and Ghana. Other blacks from African countries that are economically and educationally worse off than Nigeria and Ghana and which do not show the same rates of high educational achievement of their immigrant populations also go to medical school in the UK including students who did not actually grow up in the UK and did not receive most of their earlier schooling in the UK. Also more of the black population in the UK is of Afro-Caribbean origin than Nigerian, Ghanaian, Cameroonian, Kenyan, etc. origin and Afro-Caribbean immigrants do not actually have the same general statistics as African immigrants from countries like the aforementioned ones.

    My analysis based on medical school cognitive test performance is of course not refined enough to come to any precise results regarding, say, Nigerians and Ghanans (?) from the UK. But the problem with your objection is that there’s almost no way to make the numbers work so that Nigerians and Ghanans do as well as whites on this medical school test.

    There are about 180K Nigerians and 94K Ghanans in England, according to wikipedia. There are about 1.8M blacks in England. So between the two, they comprise about 15% of blacks in England. But they are, by your assumption, by a good measure the more able of the blacks in England. Yet only quite good students will be in any kind of position to be a medical student. So if they are by a good measure the better students among the blacks, then their numbers should dominate those of medical students — probably in excess of half of them, under your assumptions.

    But then they pretty much must perform quite poorly compared to whites, because the average for black medical students can’t be 1.14 SD below whites unless this dominant portion also performs poorly.

    You see, there really is no way these numbers can be disaggregated and be consistent with the idea that students of Nigerian or Ghanan ancestry perform nearly as well as whites.

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    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    "So between the two, they comprise about 15% of blacks in England. But they are, by your assumption, by a good measure the more able of the blacks in England. Yet only quite good students will be in any kind of position to be a medical student. So if they are by a good measure the better students among the blacks, then their numbers should dominate those of medical students — probably in excess of half of them, under your assumptions."

    This does not follow from my assumptions. I will try to be a bit clearer since I did not get my point across. I certainly do not believe that the Nigerians, Ghanaians, some Kenyans, etc. would constitute up to half of the medical students that are black, let alone be in excess of half. I think that if anything groups from African countries that do not have the kind of trend of immigrants performing well that these groups do have and who are Africans coming from economically and educationally less progressive countries in Africa, plus the Afro-Caribbean blacks that generally do not actually have the same statistics as immigrants from Nigeria, Ghana, etc. would constitute the majority. That that the Nigerians, Ghanaians, etc. would not constitute half or the majority but instead be outnumbered by other groups was the entire idea of my comment (though I did not assume or invent what fraction of the medical students they would constitute, as you did). If you read it again I think you will see that.

    I also do not see the pertinence of your claim that "only quite good students will be in any kind of position to be a medical student" in the context of what I stated. My point is that some black students from different backgrounds will likely be better than others based on other statistics and observed trends for those groups. The UK Clinical Aptitude Test can be taken regardless of whether you are actually a "quite good" student or if you just think that you are quite good. Some black students (Nigerians, Ghanaians, Kenyans, etc.) may be more "quite good" than other black students of different backgrounds yet all, whether mediocre, good, quite good or more than quite good will be allowed to take the test.
    , @Deduction
    Comparing medical scores is unfair. Black medical students in Britain are able to benefit from racial discrimination and so have a lower hurdle to jump when entering medical school.

    It would be very surprising therefore if they did not have a lower score on that test.
  159. @Deduction

    it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called ‘Red” Igbo, to numerous other variants in between.
     
    Bigger than the difference between Swedes and South Indians?

    What is the measurement you are using for the magnitude of difference? And would Swedes have more variation in skin colors than South Indians or less?

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  160. @Deduction

    it is just another variation among Africans, who have the HIGHEST skin color diversity n the world- whether it be the pale, yellowish San, to some of the so-called ‘Red” Igbo, to numerous other variants in between.
     
    Bigger than the difference between Swedes and South Indians?

    Bigger than the difference between Swedes and South Indians?

    There is great skin color variation among South Indians too. You won’t find anyone as pale as a Swede, but there are people who could pass for light-skinned Middle Easterners or Greeks. For example, this lady is a South Indian.

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  161. @Qasim
    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don’t use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians?

    Notice I said 3-4 macro-races. The 4 is there for a reason, as Australoids are often classified as the fourth. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you start doing the lol thing.

    And calling something obsolete gruel doesn't magically make it so. And what modern scientists may or may not use just speaks to the ideological committments of modern scientists. This website recently published an article by Robert Trivers, the sections on Gould and Lewontin show perfect examples of ideology trumping a dispassionate search for the truth.

    Also, simply NOTING the diversity of skin color amongst sub-Saharan Africans is not the same as EXPLAINING said diversity, no matter how many fancy articles you site. It is true than the San have a yellowish complexion. Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned. When one sees an African-American with a lighter complexion, one naturally assumes partial European ancestry. So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans? Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory? Again, the Razib Khan article states that Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians. Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement.

    And why is it that the pattern of light-skinned elites has manifested itself over and over throughout world history? South America, the Caribbean, the Middle East, India, and now Nigeria. Weird, no? Ideologically addled people such as yourself can write 20 posts and link to 50 articles all you want, the individual trees do not obscure the forest at all.

    Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned.

    You probably have never been to Africa. Bantu is a linguistic group and there are lots of peoples within the Bantu linguistic group with skin colors that are different shades of brown than “exceedingly dark-skinned” and this variation occurs for different groups but also within groups as well. But west Africans are mostly not Bantu anyway.

    There is also no evidence of “light skinned elites” in Nigeria. Many of the Igbos are dark brown rather than light brown skinned and many neighboring groups also have light skinned peoples and dark skin colors among them as well shades in between light brown and dark brown. Igbos and neighboring groups vary in skin color just as Europeans and East Asians do even without admixture.

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  162. @syonredux

    Just out of (very mild) curiosity – who is it, exactly, that you have in mind when you make these bizarre claims about what commenters on this site believe? (i.e.: there are 3 or 4 races, they are natural kinds, and their characteristics are immutable.)

    Are you talking about Svigor? or Jefferson? or Whiskey? or Leftist Conservative? Or Syon? or any of the other frequent commenters here that I can think of off the top of my head?
     

    Well, he certainly can't mean me.I've never said anything about "races having immutable characteristics."That's a completely anti-evolutionary notion.

    As for how many "races" there are, I don't think that I've ever limited it to 3 or 4.To the contrary, I have noted that race, as a concept, can be scaled up or scaled down.For example:

    British Isles: small scale race.Very, very closely related.

    Northern Europe: somewhat bigger.Very closely related, but not as closely related as the British Isles grouping.

    Continental Europe: Much bigger. Closely related, but not as closely related as the Northern European cluster.

    North Africa,West Asia, Europe: Broadly related.As big as you can go, really, and still make a reasonably coherent group.

    Note that each group is defined in opposition to something else.

    British Isles: In contrast to non-British Isles

    Northern Europe: in contrast to Southern Europe

    Europe: in contrast to non-Europe

    North Africa,West Asia, Europe: in contrast to the other Continental scale races: Australoids, Amerinds, etc.

    “Well, he certainly can’t mean me.”

    But, syon, given his response to me above, he *does* mean you…or, at the very least, he doesn’t care to distinguish between you and the others I mentioned (all of whom, so far as I can judge, are equally innocent as charged.)

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  163. @Ron Unz
    Well, I'll admit I haven't looked through this extremely long comment-thread, but isn't there a pretty easy way to get a handle on the relative academic performance of e.g. Nigerian-Americans vs. American blacks in general?

    The National Achievement Scholarship Program is only open to black students in the U.S., and has since 1964 provided awards to 1600 top-scoring students each year based on the PSAT (an exact parallel to the NMS system). If someone manages to track down the lists of winners, the Nigerian-Ibo names should be very distinctive and easy to recognize, as well as those of lots of other African immigrant groups. In addition, Jamaican blacks and others from the Caribbean often have somewhat distinctive first and last names, and perhaps could be roughly estimated as well.

    Since a large majority of American blacks have ordinary Anglo-Saxon names, their numbers are normally very difficult to determine, but since this competition is only open to black students, the problem disappears.

    Furthermore, the winners on this list could then be cross-checked against the NMS list from the same state or city to determine if their scores were high enough to reach that more difficult cut-off as well.

    This is not a good method to resolve this issue. I talked about this in my discussion with candid_observer.

    Harold Ekeh, a Nigerian student who performed very well academically and was an Intel Talent Search semifinalist may not even have taken the PSAT. Nor is there any mention of whether Saheela Ibraheem took the PSAT and got national achievement or national merit recognition. She might have skipped it entirely. I also mentioned in my conversation with candid_observer one national merit semifinalist of Nigerian ancestry that I was acquainted with personally and I was able to find one other semifinalist and one finalist after 15-20 minutes of looking online. None of these sorts of people – people like Ekeh and Ibraheem, who may not even have taken the PSAT, and people like the semifinalists and finalist I mentioned – would be reflected in such a comparison about national achievement scholars even though they are all Nigerian and would be relevant to determining how well Nigerians do.

    You also stated “In addition, Jamaican blacks and others from the Caribbean often have somewhat distinctive first and last names, and perhaps could be roughly estimated as well.

    But this is basically untrue. There are a few English names with some Caribbeans are more fond of than others but this is not as helpful as you think because many of them still have ordinary English names which are not that distinctive and are more or less the same as the English or other European names borne by American blacks.

    In addition there are some black Africans with first and last names that are purely in non-African languages like Hebrew names (because of Christianity), Muslim names (because of Islam), or European (the former president of Nigeria was named Goodluck Johnathan – a combination of European words and a Hebrew Christian name). But this also applies to American blacks, as some have Christian or Muslim names or European names in various combinations also.

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  164. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “Again, their early use of metal smelting (why the snark word “supposed”?) doesn’t count for much in itself. What counts is the scale of the production. We should also consider the techniques of metallurgy, which appear to be largely of indigenous origin. This was not the case with the Hausa, among whom metallurgy appeared later in time and was largely inspired by North African and Middle Eastern traditions.”

    I didn’t intend it as snark because I’ve heard of a pretty wide range of places and times where metal smelting developed in West Africa. 2,000 BC is the earliest date I’ve heard, but it’s not certain this is where it was first developed indigenously in West Africa, and we know primitive steel was independently developed in Tanzania. I am really not sure where you get the idea that the Hausa developed it much later in time, because the Hausa as a people didn’t come together until the early middle ages and we find metal smelting in other parts of West Africa from well before that.

    The problem with your arguments about the Igbo being likely as intelligent as they are due to their history is that you don’t have much of a coherent timeline or consideration of other aspects of West African history, or atleast presenting some of them for people to properly understand, and variously claiming flat out untrue things about african history. For starters, when were the Igbo known to have been trading heavily with others, or atleast be prominent traders in this region? The paper you cite alludes to this being why so much iron was produced in 765 BC, but what about in 2,000 BC, the earliest one? What was the impetus for the Igbo developing iron so early? Is there any evidence the earliest iron smelting relates to trade? Exactly when do the ancient egyptian beads date to? These beads were found in Igbo-Ukwu, but Igbo-Ukwu dates to the central middle ages. The art at Igbo-Ukwu wasn’t produced until close to well over 1,000 years after the major iron production in 765 BC, and the other major artistic traditions in Nigeria, Ile Ife and Benin, developed a few to several centuries after Igbo-Ukwu, and were equal or greater to the expertise shown in Igbo artwork.

    This also fails to consider all of the places in between Igboland and places far outside of Nigeria that could have acted as middlemen, especially if beads all the way from Ancient Egypt made it down there. Heavy urbanization existed along the Niger river well before Islam (detailed in the video link I posted), and trade has been going on between that region and North Africa for a very long time (to say nothing of the scale in the middle ages). This paper from 1997 finds that Gao, all the way in Mali, acted as a middleman for trade that led to Igbo-Ukwu: http://www.jstor.org/stable/25130610?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    Finally, you say their early development of iron-smelting in and of itself isn’t what counts, but the scale of production, and then later, you state that their early development of iron smelting and a market economy is an example of how they developed much more through their own resources and intellect.

    “More snark. Why not say “semi-literate” instead of “pre-literate”? This is supposed to be an academic discussion and not a political debate. Also, it’s natural selection, not social selection.”

    I don’t know if an ideographic script with “possible logarithmic elements” is enough to elevate them to even semi-literate. We also don’t know who invented Nsibidi.

    “Again, you attach too much importance to the trappings of centralized state formation (building of monuments, palaces, etc.) By that line of reasoning, the Ashkenazi Jews were nobodies. For that matter, the English were nobodies for most of their history.”

    I’m not trying to, I’m skeptical of the cognitive demands of many positions in pre-literate cultures, but I think if we take the totality of achievement as indicative of intelligence in Nigeria, the Igbo are outclassed by other groups. To that end, I am skeptical of the cognitive demands of mercantile positions and such in pre-literate civilizations- this is a point raised in Ferguson’s critique of Cochran and Harpending, that the money-lending positions of the Ashkenazi were so intensively selective that it only not only heavily raised intelligence among the Ashkenazi, but this was by way of multiple DRA’s, of which the idea they were so cognitively demanding is overrated, and that there is little actual evidence the DRA’s raise intelligence.

    Regarding your wikipedia citation on the Benin Empire, it does not at all say Portuguese trade was the impetus for Benin’s formation. The Portuguese contacted them in 1485, 45 years after Benin became an empire, not a city-state, so Benin as a city-state existed for even longer before the Portuguese, and urbanization even moreso. The rest merely states that they adopted the name of Benin City after the Portuguese designation. Benin was not formed because of trade with the Portuguese.

    I did not dispute that Oyo formed by then, but Ile Ife was formed earlier and that their art was not produced under the reign of Oyo. Ile Ife as an urban center did not form until the 12th century, but was this really true of the rest of the Yoruba? What does it matter whether it was produced under royal patronage and not trade?

    Kanem-Bornu was in no way a Hausa state, the ethnic groups that composed and founded it are not Hausa, and it has long been centered in Niger and Chad, not northern Nigeria, although Kanem-Bornu did at one point control northeast Nigeria and presumably much of the Hausa.

    “You seem to subscribe to the Truth school of HBD.”

    I don’t. I don’t know why you’re saying this. And now you seem to be implying that the descendants of the Nok devolved and lost the advantages they had, and that in general, people who lose a prior high levle of social development will lose it over time if they don’t have a way of sustaining it. A lot could be said about this, but in the case of the descendants of the Nok, this really stretches credibility. As far as I can tell, we know little about the Nok aside from their artwork, and while that would certainly imply they had established settlements, it seems likely the case the Nok settlements were definitely not as advanced, large or plentiful as their successors, so how could they have devolved? What in the time from when their culture died out until they arose as the other groups later on gave them advantage again?

    And can’t this extend to the Igbo in a way? One of their most exemplary outputs in metal working was their artwork in Igbo-Ukwu, but after Igbo-Ukwu was apparently abandoned, Igbo art seemed to have rarely been made of metal and was mostly wood, and I think is fair to say was greatly inferior.

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  165. Harold Ekeh, a Nigerian student who performed very well academically and was an Intel Talent Search semifinalist may not even have taken the PSAT. Nor is there any mention of whether Saheela Ibraheem took the PSAT and got national achievement or national merit recognition. She might have skipped it entirely.

    Well, my strong impression is that the overwhelming majority of high-performing H.S. students take the PSAT for the prestige and for very lucrative scholarship opportunities it offers, and I can’t see why Nigerian-American students would not do so. One problem with using the Intel, is that it’s a substantially *subjective* competition, hence much less reliable as a metric than an objectively scored test. Similar problems apply with using Presidential Scholarships or Ivy League admissions. The PSAT is also a better measure than the very similar SAT, since the latter can be taken numerous times by sufficiently determined students, with only their highest scores being reported.

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    • Replies: @FirstPerson
    I am not under the impression that Intel Science Talent Search semifinalist recognition is a more objective measure at all and I did not bring it up to suggest that it is. But I do believe it is a more selective recognition or award than the National Merit Semifinalist list and that belief is based on the actual selectivity of the awards combined with the prestige of the competition for high achieving high school students. My point was that such a person who got Intel semifinalist recognition could still have skipped the PSAT if they felt they didn't need it as preparation for the SAT and that may be why there is no mention of Ekeh as either a national achievement or national merit semifinalist. In the case of the 15 year old who got a near perfect score on her SAT she might have skipped the PSAT as well since no mention is made of semifinalist or national achievement recognition for her either. I would not just assume that they took it without evidence and the fact they may not have, since it is not something nearly essential like the ACT or SAT is a relevant factor.

    It is not unreasonable to suggest that the majority of high-performing high school students do take the PSAT but I do not think one can simply ignore the fact that some may not take it.

    But as I said before the National Achievement list cannot be a good measure of how well Nigerians (relative to their population) are performing compared to American Blacks since some Nigerians just will not show up on the National Achievement list if they are on the National Merit semifinalist and finalist lists.
  166. @Qasim
    Obsolete, thin gruel that most modern scientists don’t use. And pray tell what are indigenous Australians?

    Notice I said 3-4 macro-races. The 4 is there for a reason, as Australoids are often classified as the fourth. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you start doing the lol thing.

    And calling something obsolete gruel doesn't magically make it so. And what modern scientists may or may not use just speaks to the ideological committments of modern scientists. This website recently published an article by Robert Trivers, the sections on Gould and Lewontin show perfect examples of ideology trumping a dispassionate search for the truth.

    Also, simply NOTING the diversity of skin color amongst sub-Saharan Africans is not the same as EXPLAINING said diversity, no matter how many fancy articles you site. It is true than the San have a yellowish complexion. Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned. When one sees an African-American with a lighter complexion, one naturally assumes partial European ancestry. So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans? Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory? Again, the Razib Khan article states that Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians. Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement.

    And why is it that the pattern of light-skinned elites has manifested itself over and over throughout world history? South America, the Caribbean, the Middle East, India, and now Nigeria. Weird, no? Ideologically addled people such as yourself can write 20 posts and link to 50 articles all you want, the individual trees do not obscure the forest at all.

    Notice I said 3-4 macro-races. The 4 is there for a reason, as Australoids are often classified as the fourth. Maybe you should read things more carefully before you start doing the lol thing.

    Maybe you should be more careful about what you right, for you yourself specifically asserted three races- Quote: “but the macro-division of Mongoloid/Caucasoid/Negroid still stands.” And up above you say nothing about Australians until I mentioned them, nor did you include Australians in your 3-part “macro” races division.

    .
    his website recently published an article by Robert Trivers, the sections on Gould and Lewontin show perfect examples of ideology trumping a dispassionate search for the truth.
    Curiously enough, you can proffer nothing specific to support your claims. How exactly does Lewontin support you for example? Why are specifics are missing in your alleged “dispassionate search for the truth?”

    .
    Also, simply NOTING the diversity of skin color amongst sub-Saharan Africans is not the same as EXPLAINING said diversity, no matter how many fancy articles you site.
    Actually the citation already explains it. Let’s look at an excerpt of what scholar Relethford says above again- there is nothing “fancy” about it:

    “Previous studies of genetic and craniometric traits
    have found higher levels of within-population diversity
    in sub-Saharan Africa compared to other geographic regions…
    For both measures, the average level of within-population
    diversity is higher in sub-Saharan Africa than in other
    geographic regions. This difference persists even after
    adjusting for a correlation between within-population
    diversity and distance from the equator. Though affected
    by natural selection, skin color variation shows the same
    pattern of higher African diversity as found with other traits.”

    –Relethford JH.. 2001. Human skin color diversity is
    highest in sub-Saharan African populations.
    Hum Biol. 2001 Oct;73(5):629-36.

    As can be seen Relethford references (a) the already greater diversity of sub-Saharan Africans, which takes in genetic diversity and craniometric traits- nothing surprising given the evolution of anatomically modern humans in Africa. The origin point has greater diversity- everything else is a SUBSET of that diversity. Skin color is simply consistent with said pattern as Relethford shows. (b) Natural selection. This is basic Anthropology 101- nothing “fancy” about it.

    .
    It is true than the San have a yellowish complexion. Bantus (the group we are actually discussing), on the other hand, are generally exceedingly dark-skinned. When one sees an African-American with a lighter complexion, one naturally assumes partial European ancestry. So why is a similar thought process dismissed out of hand amongst Africans.
    You need to go through your thought process logically, for your notion that lighter skin in Africa must be due to some sort of “race mix” is contradicted by your own example. You mention the San, and admit they have pale skin, but don’t seem to realize that your own statement contradicts your thought process. How did the San get yellow skin? Ancient Chinese colonists to the Kalahari or the Cape? Where is the evidence of these mysterious “Asiatic race mixers”? You don’t have any.

    .
    Because the alleged admixture took place in prehistory?
    What admixture in pre-history gave the San yellow skin? You make all these sweeping pronouncements, but can produce nothing credible to back them up.

    .
    Neanderthal DNA has been found amongst Nigerians.
    But even if this is so, how did said Neanderthal DNA produce light skin in Nigerians? Once again, you merely assert that it is so, without producing a shred of credible evidence.

    .
    Eurasian admixure DID take place in that region of the world, the only question is whether this helps to explain Igbo intellectual achievement.
    But yet again, you only offer your own dubious opinion, without the slightest bit of credible evidence. Precisely when and how was said admixture and how did it affect Igbo intellectual achievement? You made the claim, but you have precious little to support it. When are you going to produce something credible?

    .
    And why is it that the pattern of light-skinned elites has manifested itself over and over throughout world history? South America, the Caribbean, the Middle East, India, and now Nigeria. Weird, no?
    No actually what’s weird is your confused, laughable logic. The Igbo were no “light-skinned elite.” In fact as shown above they did not match the power and sophistication of other more powerful empires and cultures around. And none of these other cultures were ruled by any “light skinned elite.” Since when are the rulers of Benin for example a “light skinned” elite?

    .
    Ideologically addled people such as yourself can write 20 posts and link to 50 articles all you want, the individual trees do not obscure the forest at all.
    The only “addled” person is you, and I link to credible articles that debunk the rubbish you are pushing. You seem to be scared of actual credible scholarship- which is why you continuously try to avoid it. You and other intellectual lightweights can “hide” that scholarship, but it still does not change the fact that your claims are both dubious and false.

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    • Replies: @Qasim
    Maybe you should be more careful about what you right,

    Fair point. After all, one can never be too careful in one's righting. or reeding for that matter.

    I think a main problem we are having is that my comments are not addressed to people like you. If I was a masochist who wanted to try to convert the un-convertible, I would post on salon or huffingtonpost. But this is unz, where Steven Sailer lives, I assume a basic familiarity (and affinity) with HBD. Furthermore, this is a message board where brevity is important, and based on the general level of commenting on this site, I am assuming people are smart enough to get the basic gist of my argument without having to hold their hand.

    Peter Frost was the one who first said "You are assuming 3-4 races". I immediately knew he was referring to the Rushton type classification, which is Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australoid. But for whatever reason, Australoids are often omitted for the sake of brevity, and since we are discussing Eurasian DNA in Africa, referring to Australoids didn't seem important. Again, this is something that doesn't need to be obsessed over for people who are familiar with the argument and can make a simple mental leap.

    Curiously enough, you can proffer nothing specific to support your claims. How exactly does Lewontin support you for example?

    Again, I am not here to hold your hand and patiently explain everything to you. I assume that most of the people who read this site are already well aware of who Richard Lewontin is, how his Marxism colored his science, Lewontin's fallacy etc.

    As can be seen Relethford references (a) the already greater diversity of sub-Saharan Africans, which takes in genetic diversity and craniometric traits- nothing surprising given the evolution of anatomically modern humans in Africa. The origin point has greater diversity- everything else is a SUBSET of that diversity. Skin color is simply consistent with said pattern as Relethford shows. (b) Natural selection. This is basic Anthropology 101- nothing “fancy” about it.

    Again, you miss the point. And how many times are you going to cite your beloved Relethford?

    Let me try to make this clearer for you. Suppose there was an article that stated a high diversity of skin color amongst Arabs. All that would mean is that there is a high diversity of skin color amongst Arabs. Whether that diversity was something that was present 1500 years ago in the Arabian peninsula or whether the color diversity is a result of mating with and Arabizing people like the Persians and the Sudanese is not something that can be determined by the study.

    So is the diversity of skin colors among Bantus something intrinsic to Bantus or is it the result of admixture with different ethnicities who had different skin colors? Your beloved does not say, and that is why your endless citations of him are pointless.

    And this is a quote from the Razib Khan article recently posted on this site that seems germane..

    But the masking of Eurasian ancestry also highlighted something important: the genetic variation across African populations once you remove Eurasian ancestry is not that high.

    And as far as it being "basic Anthropology 101", does this lecture come before or after the lecture on how race is a completely social construct? I am sure "Gender is a social construct" is basic Womyn's Studies 101, but who cares?

    You need to go through your thought process logically, for your notion that lighter skin in Africa must be due to some sort of “race mix” is contradicted by your own example. You mention the San, and admit they have pale skin, but don’t seem to realize that your own statement contradicts your thought process. How did the San get yellow skin? Ancient Chinese colonists to the Kalahari or the Cape? Where is the evidence of these mysterious “Asiatic race mixers”? You don’t have any.

    Again, my only "mistake" was assuming you could make the sort of mental leaps that people with an IQ of say 120 make automatically.

    I DID make it clear we were talking not about the San, who have a nearly universal yellowish complexion and are often classified as another race (BUT I THOUGHT YOU SAID THERE WERE 4!!! When discussing Africa, Bantus, San, and Pygmies are often classified as 3 separate races (read syon's comment #130 if you are still confused). Anyway, there is no reason to think that the San's generally uniform skin complexion is the result of any race mixing. Now it is true I said light skin in African Americans is immediately thought to be the result of white admixture, so why not the same in Africans. But I assumed you knew we were still talking about Bantus (as I said Bantus are the group we are actually discussing). But for you, I will restate is as: When we see African Americans (who are overwhelmingly of Bantu origin) with light skin, we assume European admixture. So why is that when we see BANTU Africans (whose skin is generally exceedingly dark), that possibility is rejected out of hand? Because the alleged mixture took place in prehistory?

    So again, I do not assume EVERY African group has generally very dark skin. Not the San. Not the Boers. Not the people in the Maghreb. The Bantus only. Bantus Bantus Bantus.

    But even if this is so, how did said Neanderthal DNA produce light skin in Nigerians?

    Again, a small mental leap you were not able to make. So this one time I will spoonfeed you. Neanderthals lived in Eurasia. Neanderthals did not live in Africa. Neanderthals mated with Homo Sapiens. Neanderthal DNA is therefore present in modern humans. If a group of humans show Neanderthal DNA, then this means they had ancestors in Eurasia, since that is where Neanderthals and modern humans mated. If Africans are found to have Neanderthal DNA, then this means some of their ancestors were at one point in Eurasia.

    Now whether Neanderthals had the skin color of Taylor Swift or Lawrence Taylor is not relevant to the current argument. (Dipwill, it is also not relevant whether the Neanderthal brain was the size of a walnut or a watermelon.) The point of me bringing up the presence of Neanderthal DNA in Nigerians is ONLY that it is proof of partial Eurasian ancestry.

    What I do assume is that Eurasians likely had lighter skin than Bantus. So any offspring between Eurasians and Bantus would likely have lighter skin than Bantus without Eurasian admixture. Allow me to cite a recent credible article on Kanye West, a dark-skinned black man who recently had a daughter with a white woman. Now cutting edge spectral technology has given us tantalizing clues that this baby North has a complexion lighter than that of her black father yet darker than her white mother!! And this study helped me conclude that Africans with Eurasian admixture may be more light skinned.

    No actually what’s weird is your confused, laughable logic. The Igbo were no “light-skinned elite.”

    The Igbo are certainly an elite today. That IS the point of the Frost article, after all. And they are more light-skinned than other Nigerian tribes. And notice how you bring up Benin and totally ignore the ubiquitous and indisputable pattern of light-skinned elites seen throughout world history.

    I link to credible articles that debunk the rubbish you are pushing. You seem to be scared of actual credible scholarship- which is why you continuously try to avoid it. You and other intellectual lightweights

    You endlessly link to articles in the vain hopes that breadth of knowledge can substitute for depth of intellect and insight. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. I am not scared of your "credible" scholarship (notice how you use the word credible as this weird mantra, probably because you know someone else could as easily link to scholarly articles that conclude the exact opposite of what your articles say, but of course those articles would be non-credible).
    I just think looking at 50 leaves under an electron microscope is not the best way to comprehend the forest. Also, as we went over with the Relethford thing, what an article says and the ideologically addled conclusions you reach from them are two vastly different things. And thirdly, considering many of the researchers themselves share your ideological commitments, the fact that a scholar says something doesn't mean much on its own (see Lewontin, Gould).

    I know you will never believe me, but you are not even half as smart as you think, and all this lightweight stuff and lols are just projection. So be it. I leave you to snark away and write 20 more posts at your leisure.

    A couple of last thoughts. The amount of pompous bullshittery on this comment thread is a sight to behold. Look at FirstPerson's comment #176.

    The problem bedeviling people wondering about neanderthal admixture being found among a few Nigerians is the poor lack of knowledge of the history of that region that some here seem to have. I can go into detail if needed

    Fulanis came to Nigeria in the 16th century and again in the 18th century so any slight Eurasian DNA that they contributed to any peoples to the south of them has nothing to do with “ancient Eurasian migration” but to recent intermarriage and assimilation.

    Perhaps geneticists or genetics obsessed amateur anthropologists would do better to read more about the peoples they are speculating about in detail. If they do this they can avoid making the wrong assumption that some slight Eurasian DNA in (or derived from) some northern Nigerians who derived it from Northern Africans is evidence of ancient Eurasian admixture of Igbos or similar nonsense.


    Now let's quote some snippets from the aforementioned Razib Khan article posted on this site in December...

    What is more interesting is that they observed Eurasian admixture within Yoruba people. This admixture has been suggested by others, as the Yoruba have traces of Neandertal ancestry. This group dates the admixture back to nearly 10,000 years ago, so it as likely associated with goings on that were trans-Saharan. If that is the case these were almost certain quasi-Eurasian hunter-gatherers, and their ancestry might have been diminished in current North African groups subject to waves of farmers issuing from the east during the Neolithic. But there is also admixture with Eurasians further east in Uganda among Bantu groups.

    Though the Eurasian admixture story among these populations is fascinating, there is also nuance in the input of hunter-gatherer ancestry within West African and Bantu populations. First, I suspect that these estimates are low bounds, because they don’t have exact reference populations. Some of the hunter-gatherers mixed into the Igbo and Bantu groups may have been more like agriculturalists than the extant hunter-gatherer groups within Africa.

    The only complicating issue is that of Eurasian admixture; it seems likely that for very old admixture events we’re seeing underestimates, or they aren’t picked up. In other words, the “reference” Sub-Saharan Africans themselves are compounds of people who remained within Africa, and Out of Africa.


    So, other than the fact that you were off on the time of Neanderthal admixture by ohhh about 9500 years and incorrectly limited said mixture to Northern Nigerians everything you said was totally correct! Way to clear things up!!

    Again, this combination of absolute certitude and absolute talking out of one's arse is par for the course for people who can't bear to think that race and intelligence may be strongly linked.

    And there have been multiple comments insisting that other than a lighter skin color, the Igbo have no sign of Eurasian admixture. Do these people think that repeating this statement often enough will somehow make it true? Have these people actually seen many Igbos? There is a reason biracial Thandie Newton was cast to play an Igbo woman in a recent movie, and that there are endless message boards on the internet asking whether the Igbo are mixed-race, and why some Igbos themselves believe they have some Jewish ancestry.

    Sorry for the long post, that will be all from me. And to all those high-achieving Igbos out there, keep up the good work! :)
  167. @candid_observer
    My analysis based on medical school cognitive test performance is of course not refined enough to come to any precise results regarding, say, Nigerians and Ghanans (?) from the UK. But the problem with your objection is that there's almost no way to make the numbers work so that Nigerians and Ghanans do as well as whites on this medical school test.

    There are about 180K Nigerians and 94K Ghanans in England, according to wikipedia. There are about 1.8M blacks in England. So between the two, they comprise about 15% of blacks in England. But they are, by your assumption, by a good measure the more able of the blacks in England. Yet only quite good students will be in any kind of position to be a medical student. So if they are by a good measure the better students among the blacks, then their numbers should dominate those of medical students -- probably in excess of half of them, under your assumptions.

    But then they pretty much must perform quite poorly compared to whites, because the average for black medical students can't be 1.14 SD below whites unless this dominant portion also performs poorly.

    You see, there really is no way these numbers can be disaggregated and be consistent with the idea that students of Nigerian or Ghanan ancestry perform nearly as well as whites.

    “So between the two, they comprise about 15% of blacks in England. But they are, by your assumption, by a good measure the more able of the blacks in England. Yet only quite good students will be in any kind of position to be a medical student. So if they are by a good measure the better students among the blacks, then their numbers should dominate those of medical students — probably in excess of half of them, under your assumptions.”

    This does not follow from my assumptions. I will try to be a bit clearer since I did not get my point across. I certainly do not believe that the Nigerians, Ghanaians, some Kenyans, etc. would constitute up to half of the medical students that are black, let alone be in excess of half. I think that if anything groups from African countries that do not have the kind of trend of immigrants performing well that these groups do have and who are Africans coming from economically and educationally less progressive countries in Africa, plus the Afro-Caribbean blacks that generally do not actually have the same statistics as immigrants from Nigeria, Ghana, etc. would constitute the majority. That that the Nigerians, Ghanaians, etc. would not constitute half or the majority but instead be outnumbered by other groups was the entire idea of my comment (though I did not assume or invent what fraction of the medical students they would constitute, as you did). If you read it again I think you will see that.

    I also do not see the pertinence of your claim that “only quite good students will be in any kind of position to be a medical student” in the context of what I stated. My point is that some black students from different backgrounds will likely be better than others based on other statistics and observed trends for those groups. The UK Clinical Aptitude Test can be taken regardless of whether you are actually a “quite good” student or if you just think that you are quite good. Some black students (Nigerians, Ghanaians, Kenyans, etc.) may be more “quite good” than other black students of different backgrounds yet all, whether mediocre, good, quite good or more than quite good will be allowed to take the test.

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