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The Contradictions of Polygyny
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Chief Makwira and his wives, Malawi, 1903. Older men had first priority. Younger men could gain access to women only through war or adultery.  Credit: Wikimedia Commons
Chief Makwira and his wives, Malawi, 1903. Older men had first priority. Younger men could gain access to women only through war or adultery. Credit: Wikimedia Commons
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In my last column, I reviewed the findings of Butovskaya et al. (2015) on testosterone and polygyny in two East African peoples:

- Testosterone levels were higher in the polygynous Datoga than in the monogamous Hadza. This difference is innate.

- Datoga men were more aggressive than Hadza men on all measures used (physical aggression, verbal aggression, anger, and hostility)

- Datoga men were larger and more robust than Hadza men

- All of these characteristics seem to be adaptive under conditions when men have to compete against other men for access to women

Testosterone levels were not only higher in the Datoga but also more variable. Alvergne et al. (2009) studied this variability in Senegalese men, finding that the monogamous ones differed from the polygynous ones in the way testosterone levels changed with age. The levels were higher in the polygynous men than in the monogamous men between the ages of 15 and 30. After 45, this pattern reversed: the monogamous men had the higher levels. At all ages, the polygynous men were more extraverted than the monogamous ones, this quality being defined as “pro-social behavior which reflects sociability, assertiveness, activity, dominance and positive emotions.” Extraversion may assist a reproductive strategy of seducing women, rather than providing for them.

Thus, when Africans gave up hunting and gathering for farming, there was selection for a new package of male traits. Some of these traits are physiological (higher testosterone levels), some anatomical (denser bones, greater arm and leg girth; changes to muscle fiber properties, etc.), and some behavioral (polygyny, aggressiveness, extraversion, etc.). But this selection didn’t eliminate older genotypes, at least not wholly. There seems to be a balanced polymorphism that allows a minority of quieter, monogamous men to thrive in a high-polygyny society like Senegal. When polygynous men become too numerous, they may spend too much time looking for mating opportunities and not enough checking up on their current wives to avoid being cuckolded. It might be better for some to live continuously with one wife.

African Americans versus Euro Americans

The above differences within sub-Saharan Africa (Datoga vs. Hadza, polygynous Senegalese vs. monogamous Senegalese) are also seen between African Americans and Euro Americans. In all these cases, the differences are of degree and proportion, rather than absolute and non-overlapping.

Testosterone reaches high levels in young African American adults (Pettaway, 1999; Ross et al., 1986; Ross et al., 1992; Winters et al., 2001). African Americans are also likelier to have alleles for high androgen-receptor activity (Kittles et al.,2001). Lifetime exposure to testosterone is reflected in development of prostate cancer, with African American men having the world’s highest incidences (Brawley and Kramer, 1996). It was once thought that lower incidences prevail among black West Indians and sub-Saharan Africans, but underreporting is now thought to be responsible (Glover et al., 1998; Ogunbiyi and Shittu, 1999;Osegbe, 1997).

In African Americans, blood testosterone levels peak during adolescence and early adulthood, being higher than those of Euro Americans of the same age. Levels decline after 24 years of age, and by the early 30s are similar to those of European Americans (Gapstur et al., 2002; Nyborg, 1994, pp. 111-113; Ross et al., 1986; Ross et al., 1992; Tsai et al., 2006; Winters et al., 2001). This is the same pattern we saw in polygynous Senegalese men versus monogamous Senegalese men. In short, polygyny seems associated with a more exaggerated pattern of variation with age.

The demographic contradictions of a high-polygyny society

Testosterone levels are normally higher in all young men, but why are they higher still when polygyny is common? The reason seems to be the scarcity of available women. High-polygyny societies generate a shortage of mateable women, and this shortage is managed by giving priority to men who are at least ten years past puberty. For instance, among the Nyakyusa: “[...] there is a difference of ten years or more in the average marriage-age of girls and men, and it is this differential marriage-age which makes polygyny possible” (Wilson, 1950, p. 112).

By concentrating celibacy among young men, this age rule compels them to seek sex through warfare or illicit means. According to Pierre van den Berghe (1979, pp. 50-51):

Typically, the more men are polygynous in a given society, the greater the age difference between husbands and wives. [...] The temporary celibacy of young men in polygynous societies is rarely absolute, however. While it often postpones the establishment of a stable pair-bond and the procreation of children, it often does not preclude dalliance with unmarried girls, adultery with younger wives of older men, or the rape or seduction of women conquered in warfare. Thus, what sometimes looks like temporary celibacy is, in fact, temporary promiscuity. These young men often devote themselves to warfare during their unmarried years and sometimes homosexuality is tolerated during that period.

For young men in a high-polygyny society, warfare—typically raids against neighboring communities—is the main way to gain access to women. In a sense, war becomes a means of resolving the demographic contradictions of a high-polygyny society. Polygyny creates a wife shortage among young men, and this contradiction is resolved by turning it outward. As warriors, young men are encouraged to satisfy their sexual urges through raids against neighboring peoples. Warfare thus becomes endemic.

This relationship between polygyny and war has often been noted in studies of African societies:

Dorjahn (1959) says African warfare emphasized taking captives, rather than killing the enemy. Kelly’s discussion of Nuer warfare provides an interesting perspective on this phenomenon. In Nuer warfare the main casualties were younger men and older women, with male and female mortality being almost equal. Younger women and children were captured. Female captives were valued because they could be used to generate bridewealth when they were married to other Nuer, whereas captive boys were adopted into the lineage of their captor and would require bridewealth payment when they married. Consequently, few males were taken captive (Kelly 1985:56-57). (White and Burton, 1988)

In their cross-cultural study of the causes of polygyny, White and Burton (1988) conclude that “polygyny is associated with warfare for plunder and/or female captives”:

[...] polygyny is seen as associated with the expansion of male-oriented kin groups through favorable environments, facilitated by capture of women or bridewealth via warfare. Following this analysis, it is difficult to see polygyny as having benign effects upon the lives of all women. Rather, polygyny produces benefits for senior wives, who have sons and can mobilize the labor of junior wives and children (Hartung 1982); it has negative effects on women who become slaves, captives, or junior wives, or who do not have sons.

We now come to a leading cause of the African slave trade. Polygyny led to warfare, which led to a surplus of unwanted male captives. These captives could be sold as slaves, but local markets would soon be saturated. The excess supply had to be sold farther away, with the result that slave trading networks began to reach the Middle East as early as the time of Christ (Frost, 2008).

While outsiders from the Middle East and Europe would later get more and more involved, becoming not only traders but also captors, it was Africans themselves who initially controlled the supply chain. In its early stages, and even later, this trade was driven by factors internal to Africa.

Contrary evidence

Whenever I discuss this subject, some people will counter that certain studies have shown an absence of racial/ethnic differences in testosterone levels. Let me discuss these studies at some length.

Richard et al. (2014)

This meta-analysis concluded: “After adjustment for age, black men have a modestly but significantly 2.5 to 4.9% higher free testosterone level than white men.” Here, “adjustment for age” means comparing black and white men of the same age. The conclusion isn’t surprising, since African American men have a testosterone advantage only from puberty to their early 30s. At other ages, their testosterone levels are either equal to or less than those of Euro American men.

This meta-analysis has two other flaws. First, it included only studies on “men,” thus excluding studies on teenagers, among whom the race difference is greatest.

Second, it included Rohrmann et al. (2007). This study suffers from serious methodological problems, as I will now explain.

Rohrmann et al. (2007)

This study concluded that “contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men.”

This study also found that 45-69 year old black men have higher testosterone levels (5.62 ng/ml) than do 20-44 year old black men (5.35 ng/ml). Such a finding is paradoxical and indicates a faulty dataset. The authors used serum samples from the National Center for Health Statistics that had been earlier collected for its Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III). The authors state they used 1,479 samples that remained out of an initial total of 1,998. Over 25% of the original samples were missing. The authors state that some samples were missing because they were being used for another study.

The same serum bank had in fact been used for research on a sexually transmitted disease. This was the study by Fleming et al. (1997), who reported that more than 25% of adults between 30 and 39 years of age were positive for HSV-2 (Herpes Simplex virus type 2). Those samples may have been set aside either for further testing or for legal reasons. The serum bank would have thus lost some of its most polygynous donors.

Ellison et al. (2002)

This study measured salivary testosterone in young men (15-30 years) from the United States, Congo, Nepal, and Paraguay. Americans had the highest levels (335 pmol/l), followed by Congolese (286 pmol/l), Nepalese (251 pmol/l), and Paraguayans (197 pmol/l).

Who were these Americans? They are simply identified as … young Americans—a demographic that is now less than 60% of European descent. In Boston, where the study was conducted, public schools in 2005 were 46% black and 31% Latino (mainly Puerto Ricans and Dominicans). The authors also state that “the USA participants were recruited by public advertisement.” The pool of participants may have therefore resembled that of people who give blood in exchange for payment, i.e., it may have been disproportionately poor and non-white. In any event, the results are unusable without any information on racial background.

The Congolese participants were likewise unrepresentative of Congolese in general. They were Lese who inhabit the Ituri forest in proximity to the Efe pygmies. Many Lese are, in fact, partly of pygmy ancestry. As such, their testosterone levels would be closer to that of hunter-gatherers with lowers levels of polygyny and less male-male competition for mates.

Richards et al. (1992)

This study concluded that testosterone levels did not differ between African American and Euro American boys between the ages of 6 and 18. Such a finding is to be expected for the first few years of this age range, when no difference should exist between the two groups. The main flaw, however, is that the participants were compared not by age but by Tanner stage. Since African Americans enter puberty earlier, this study compared younger African American boys with older Euro American boys.

Testosterone levels may differ between the two groups because of earlier maturation by African American boys. But why would this difference persist beyond adolescence and into the mid-twenties? This question remains unresolved because none of the participants were older than 18.

Various African studies

Several studies have found lower testosterone levels in African populations than in North Americans. This difference might be partly due to the effects of malnutrition or infectious diseases, notably among the Zimbabwean subjects studied by Lukas et al. (2004). The main reason, however, is that these studies mostly had middle-aged or even elderly participants. Lukas et al. (2004) report a mean age of 42.18. The scatter plot (Fig. 2) suggests a logarithmic decline in testosterone with age, but there were too few participants below 25 for analysis of that age group. The same criticism applies to Campbell et al. (2003), a study of testosterone levels in Ariaal pastoralists from northern Kenya. The mean age was 46.8.

In addition, some of these studies concern hunter-gatherers, like the !Kung of Namibia and the Ituri Forest pygmies of the Congo, who have low polygyny rates and weak male-male competition for mates (e.g., Winkler and Christiansen, 1993). Their low testosterone levels are thus to be expected.

References

Alvergne, A., M. Jokela, C. Faurie, and V. Lummaa. (2010). Personality and testosterone in men from a high-fertility population,Personality and Individual Differences, 49, 840-844.
http://ww.evolutionhumaine.fr/pdf_articles/alvergne_2010_perso_indiv_dif.pdf

Alvergne, A., M. Jokela, and V. Lummaa. (2010). Personality and reproductive success in a high-fertility human population,Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 107, 11745-11750.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2900694/

Alvergne, A., C. Faurie, and M. Raymond. (2009). Variation in testosterone levels and male reproductive effort: Insight from a polygynous human population, Hormones and Behavior, 56, 491-497.
http://ww.evolutionhumaine.fr/pdf_articles/alvergne_2009_hormones_behavior.pdf

Brawley, O.W. and B.S. Kramer. (1996). Epidemiology of prostate cancer. In N.J. Volgelsang, P.T. Scardino, W.U. Shipley, and D.S. Coffey. (eds). Comprehensive textbook of genitourinary oncology. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins.

Butovskaya M.L., O.E. Lazebny, V.A. Vasilyev, D.A. Dronova, D.V. Karelin, A.Z.P. Mabulla, et al. (2015). Androgen receptor gene polymorphism, aggression, and reproduction in Tanzanian foragers and pastoralists. PLoS ONE 10(8): e0136208.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281170838_Androgen_Receptor_Gene_Polymorphism_Aggression_and_Reproduction_in_Tanzanian_Foragers_and_Pastoralists

Campbell, B., O’Rourke, M.T., and Lipson, S.F. (2003). Salivary testosterone and body composition among Ariaal males, American Journal of Human Biology, 15, 697-708.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.10203/abstract;jsessionid=850A746CC305355216352318B03D5A19.f01t03

Ellison, P.T., Bribiescas, R.G., Bentley, G.R., Campbell, B.C., Lipson, S.F., Panter-Brick, C., and Hill, K. (2002). Population variation in age-related decline in male salivary testosterone.Human Reproduction, 17, 3251-3253.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Richard_Bribiescas/publication/11012787_Population_variation_in_age-related_decline_in_male_salivary_testosterone/links/0f317535c372e10c2b000000.pdf

Fleming D.T., G.M. McQuillan, R.E. Johnson, A.J. Nahmias, S.O. Aral, F.K. Lee, and M.E. St Louis. (1997). Herpes simplex virus type 2 in the United States, 1976 to 1994, New England Journal of Medicine, 337, 1105-11.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Michael_St_Louis/publication/13896911_Herpes_simplex_virus_type_2_in_the_United_States_1976_to_1994/links/0c96053a2e8032f86f000000.pdf

Frost, P. (2008). The beginnings of black slavery, Evo and Proud, January 25
/pfrost/beginnings-of-black-slavery/

Gapstur, S.M., P.H. Gann, P. Kopp, L. Colangelo, C. Longcope, and K. Liu. (2002). Serum androgen concentrations in young men: A longitudinal analysis of associations with age, obesity, and race. The CARDIA male hormone study, Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, 11, 1041-1047.
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/10/1041.short

Glover, F.E. Jr., D.S. Coffey, L.L. Douglas, M. Cadogan, H. Russell, T. Tulloch, T.D. Baker, R.L. Wan, and P.C. Walsh. (1998).The epidemiology of prostate cancer in Jamaica, Journal of Urology, 159, 1984-1986.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534701632208

Kittles, R.A., Young, D., Weinrich, S., Hudson, J., Argyropoulos, G., Ukoli, F., Adams-Campbell, L. and Dunston, G.M. (2001). Extent of linkage disequilibrium between the androgen receptor gene CAG and GGC repeats in human populations: implications for prostate cancer risk, Human Genetics, 109, 253-261.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s004390100576#page-1

Lukas, W.D., B.C. Campbell, and P.T. Ellison. (2004). Testosterone, aging, and body composition in men from Harare, Zimbabwe, American Journal of Human Biology, 16, 704-712.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Benjamin_Campbell3/publication/8222308_Testosterone_aging_and_body_composition_in_men_from_Harare_Zimbabwe/links/0c960519b870dd54b7000000.pdf

Nyborg, H. (1994). Hormones, Sex, and Society. The Science of Physiology. Westport (Conn.): Praeger.
https://books.google.ca/books?hl=fr&lr=&id=Et_nvmyZwXYC&oi=fnd&pg=PR11&ots=_qTx4DKr13&sig=833sbDE7rEdZ7jliL7cXNI-B9hg#v=onepage&q&f=false

Ogunbiyi, J. and O. Shittu. (1999). Increased incidence of prostate cancer in Nigerians. Journal of the National Medical Association, 3, 159-164.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Olufemi_Ogunbiyi/publication/13094150_Increased_incidence_of_prostate_cancer_in_Nigerians/links/541178900cf2b4da1bec4d5e.pdf

Osegbe, D.N. (1997). Prostate cancer in Nigerians: facts and non-facts, Journal of Urology, 157, 1340-1343.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534701649668

Pettaway, C.A. 1999. Racial differences in the androgen/androgen receptor pathway in prostate cancer, Journal of the National Medical Association, 91, 653-660.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2608588/

Richard, A., S. Rohrmann, L. Zhang, M. Eichholzer, S. Basaria, E. Selvin, A.S. Dobs, N. Kanarek, A. Menke, W.G. Nelson, and E.A. Platz. (2014). Racial variation in sex steroid hormone concentration in black and white men: a meta-analysis, Andrology, 2(3), 428-35
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2047-2927.2014.00206.x/full

Richards, R.J., F. Svec, W. Bao, S.R. Srinivasan, and G.S. Berenson. (1992). Steroid hormones during puberty: racial (black-white) differences in androstrenedione and estradiol. The Bogalusa heart study, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism,75, 624-631.
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jcem.75.2.1639961

Rohrmann, S., Nelson, W.G., Rifai, N., Brown, T.R., Dobs, A., Kanarek, N., Yager, J.D., Platz, E.A. (2007). Serum estrogen, but not testosterone levels differ between Black and White men in a nationally representative sample of Americans, The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 92, 2519-2525
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sabine_Rohrmann/publication/6371739_Serum_estrogen_but_not_testosterone_levels_differ_between_black_and_white_men_in_a_nationally_representative_sample_of_Americans/links/00b7d525d6d56201a3000000.pdf

Ross, R.K., Bernstein, L., Lobo, R.A., Shimizu, H., Stanczyk, F.Z., Pike, M.C. and Henderson, B.E. (1992). 5-apha-reductase activity and risk of prostate cancer among Japanese and US white and black males, Lancet, 339, 887-889.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/014067369290927U

Ross, R., Bernstein, L., Judd, H., Hanisch, R., Pike, M., & Henderson, B. (1986). Serum testosterone levels in healthy young black and white men, Journal of the National Cancer Institute, 76, 45-48.
http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/76/1/45.short

Tsai, C.J., B.A. Cohn, P.M. Cirillo, D. Feldman, F.Z. Stanczyk, A.S. Whittemore. (2006). Sex steroid hormones in young manhood and the risk of subsequent prostate cancer: a longitudinal study in African-Americans and Caucasians (United States), Cancer Causes Control, 17, 1237-1244.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10552-006-0052-4#/page-1

van den Berghe, P.L. (1979). Human Family Systems. An Evolutionary View. New York: Elsevier.

White, D.R., and M.L. Burton. (1988). Causes of polygyny: ecology, economy, kinship, and warfare, American Anthropologist,90, 871-887.
http://eclectic.ss.uci.edu/~drwhite/pw/AA88num4.pdf

Wilson, M. (1950). Nyakyusa kinship. In Radcliffe-Brown, A.R., & Forde, D. (eds). African Systems of Kinship and Marriage, pp. 111-139, London: Oxford University Press.

Winkler, E-M., and Christiansen, K. (1993). Sex hormone levels and body hair growth in !Kung San and Kavango men from Namibia. American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 92, 155-164.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.1330920205/abstract

Winters, S.J., Brufsky, A., Weissfeld, J., Trump, D.L., Dyky, M.A. & Hadeed, V. (2001). Testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, and body composition in young adult African American and Caucasian men, Metabolism, 50, 1242-1247.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049501738905

(Republished from Evo and Proud by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Sean says:

    This past July, U.S. Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA) led unanimous passage of the Senate Resolution 493 to recognize prostate cancer as an epidemic striking African American men disproportionately.

    They are 1.6 times more likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer and at least 2.4 times more likely to die of it. The disparity in is due to them having higher rates of invasive prostrate cancers. Quite a lot of prostrates cancers picked up by screening and treated (often leaving men impotent and incontinent) are non progressive and would be better left alone, but US doctors over treat everything, because no one was every sued for that.

    It has been suggested that older fathers are responsible for characteristics of as lowered IQ and prevalence of schizophrenia, but schizophrenia is well known for striking after puberty.Our results suggest that delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964(15)00124-3/abstract? Our findings suggest that delayed age at puberty could potentially be a predictive biomarker for psychopathology in males at risk for schizophrenia

    It’s really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?
    id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054751Significant differences between control and gifted boys in genotype distributions were found for ESR2 (rs928554) and SHBG (rs1799941). A significantly lower number of CAG repeats in the AR gene were found in gifted boys. Our results support the role of genetic factors related to testosterone metabolism in intellectual giftedness. Increased androgen signaling might explain previous results of lower testosterone levels in intellectually gifted boys and add to the understanding of variability in cognitive abilities.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    It’s really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.
     
    Not so. Childhood schizoprenia can be diagnosed between the ages of 7 and 13. (The same diagnostic criteria are applied as are to adults.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatric_schizophrenia .

    And then some schizoprenias first appear after testosterone levels have declined. (The paranoid form in particular.)
    , @matt

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.
     
    But men don't have lower IQs than women.
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  2. @Sean

    This past July, U.S. Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA) led unanimous passage of the Senate Resolution 493 to recognize prostate cancer as an epidemic striking African American men disproportionately.
     
    They are 1.6 times more likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer and at least 2.4 times more likely to die of it. The disparity in is due to them having higher rates of invasive prostrate cancers. Quite a lot of prostrates cancers picked up by screening and treated (often leaving men impotent and incontinent) are non progressive and would be better left alone, but US doctors over treat everything, because no one was every sued for that.

    It has been suggested that older fathers are responsible for characteristics of as lowered IQ and prevalence of schizophrenia, but schizophrenia is well known for striking after puberty.Our results suggest that delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.


    http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964(15)00124-3/abstract? Our findings suggest that delayed age at puberty could potentially be a predictive biomarker for psychopathology in males at risk for schizophrenia
     
    It's really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.


    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?
    id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054751Significant differences between control and gifted boys in genotype distributions were found for ESR2 (rs928554) and SHBG (rs1799941). A significantly lower number of CAG repeats in the AR gene were found in gifted boys. Our results support the role of genetic factors related to testosterone metabolism in intellectual giftedness. Increased androgen signaling might explain previous results of lower testosterone levels in intellectually gifted boys and add to the understanding of variability in cognitive abilities.
     

    It’s really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.

    Not so. Childhood schizoprenia can be diagnosed between the ages of 7 and 13. (The same diagnostic criteria are applied as are to adults.) – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatric_schizophrenia .

    And then some schizoprenias first appear after testosterone levels have declined. (The paranoid form in particular.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Non-infantile schizophrenia tend to express firstly in the 20-25 years old, when happen the end of brain maturation. Schizophrenia looks like a inherited bug in the end of brain maturation.

    Paranoid schizophrenia express itself by over lower self-steem while higher testosterone levels tend to correlate with greater self esteem.

    But seems there is megalomaniac trends in the schizophrenic spectrum.

    , @Sean
    I didn't think I had to mention the comparatively high rates of schizophrenia in blacks, but it is similar to prostrate cancer. Higher prevalence and much more serious ("positive") symptoms.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    Indeed. The notion that schizophrenia is mainly the product of testosterone is both dubious and simplistic. In fact schiz has a complex number of causes - and environmental factors weigh heavily. In fact to show how complex the subject is, some studies indicate that LOW not high testosterone may be a factor in schiz, leading to so called "Testosterone Boosters" therapy.

    "Recent neuroendocrinological studies have suggested that gonadal sex hormones play a significant role in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia. Low testosterone levels are also associated with negative symptoms in chronic schizophrenia. Patients receiving treatment for schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder also show high rates of sexual dysfunction. Studies suggest that testosterone augmentation may play a potential therapeutic role in these patients." ---- Agarwal 2013. High prevalence of low testosterone levels in male patients with schizophrenia. European Psychiatry. Vol 28, 2013

     

    Other data again show the complexity involved rather than simplistic claims. For example, some studies show that individuals who had previous fighting knowledge continue to be aggressive AFTER testosterne levels are REDUCED. (L. Finley, Encyc of Juv Violence, 2006) Your continued use of the "testosterone factor" as some sort of negative "marker" on black people is not only misguided but an example of naively mistaking correlation with causation.

    Indeed, some studies show aggression associated with LOW testosterone levels, when certain other medical conditions are involved. Numerous other researchers have FAILED to replicate claimed testosterone-violence links, whether in juvenile or adult populations (Alvarez and Bachman 2007). In fact the literature on the field is very mixed on the issue. (Violence: the enduring problem. By Alex Alvarez, Ronet Bachman. 2007) Says one standard textbook:


    "In fact, empirical research shows little if any direct linkage between testosterone and physical aggressiveness." (Walsh and Beaver, 2008, Biosocial crimnology).
     
  3. @Stephen R. Diamond

    It’s really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.
     
    Not so. Childhood schizoprenia can be diagnosed between the ages of 7 and 13. (The same diagnostic criteria are applied as are to adults.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatric_schizophrenia .

    And then some schizoprenias first appear after testosterone levels have declined. (The paranoid form in particular.)

    Non-infantile schizophrenia tend to express firstly in the 20-25 years old, when happen the end of brain maturation. Schizophrenia looks like a inherited bug in the end of brain maturation.

    Paranoid schizophrenia express itself by over lower self-steem while higher testosterone levels tend to correlate with greater self esteem.

    But seems there is megalomaniac trends in the schizophrenic spectrum.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond
    Paranoid schizophrenics typically have higher self-esteem than undifferentiated schizophrenics have. Grandiosity is often a component of paranoid schizophrenia; even persecutory delusions have a grandiose component: the victim is important enough to be persecuted. In general, paranoia and narcissism are closely related.

    The self-esteeim of the typical undifferentiated schizophrenic, on the other hand, usually totally collapses.
    , @Pat Casey
    I did not read it but I read a memorable review of it I can't immediately locate, maybe it was a comment somewhere, but the book was Dotter of Her Father's Eye, about Lucia Joyce, daughter of James, and my god what a heartbreaking story. An English Freudian named Darian Leader came out a couple few years ago with a brief book called Strictly Bipolar that located the essential symptom of mania in a sense of debt that need be lifted or rather thrown as high into the sky as can; and that is to say he named the essential symptom not as hyper-confidence but hyper-altruism, and that it is very much a learned behavior from a home environment that would be eccentrically stimulating or coddling---as when Joyce thought he was gifting his golden tongue to his bright daughter by talking around the house like he wrote in his books, endless lyrical puns. He took her to Jung and he said you made her Schizophrenic. (Incidentally, this is how we know Joyce only misplaced his faith because what he said upon that prognosis was that he always knew his libelous fictioning was going to come due and damn him somehow.) Then as if on a black cue, Sam Beckett came into her life and set her over the edge. I think today she would be treated for manic depression, and wouldn't have lost her life to the ward. The difference between a functioning manic depressive and a disable schizophrenic seems pretty clearly to me a matter of concentration of the environment that takes an interest in the individual, where paranoid schizophrenics are minus needful verbal engagement. I do think it has more to do with the spoken word than anything else by a big margin. Testosterone seems to be about moods, not ideas to be precise.
  4. Jm8 says:

    “Extraversion may assist a reproductive strategy of seducing women, rather than providing for them.”

    In most African cultures a major requirement was the ability to pay a traditional bride price to the prospective bride’s family(which they might be required to return the case of a divorce). In some tribes bride wealth (for a first wife) might be be contributed by a single man’s relatives, but the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    In most African cultures a major requirement was the ability to pay a traditional bride price to the prospective bride’s family(which they might be required to return the case of a divorce). In some tribes bride wealth (for a first wife) might be be contributed by a single man’s relatives, but the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    Extraversion as Frost says can help in the seduction game- the more aggressive, on the average will see greater success. But you are correct- the traditional dowry required hard work to earn enough to acquire a bride. If the full amount was not forthcoming up front then bride-service was often used- such as herding cattle for a number of years or whatever agreed period. Interestingly the Bible shows Jacob serving 7 years for his bride Rachael. In some tribes one key grounds for divorce after the marriage was non-support.
  5. @Santoculto
    Non-infantile schizophrenia tend to express firstly in the 20-25 years old, when happen the end of brain maturation. Schizophrenia looks like a inherited bug in the end of brain maturation.

    Paranoid schizophrenia express itself by over lower self-steem while higher testosterone levels tend to correlate with greater self esteem.

    But seems there is megalomaniac trends in the schizophrenic spectrum.

    Paranoid schizophrenics typically have higher self-esteem than undifferentiated schizophrenics have. Grandiosity is often a component of paranoid schizophrenia; even persecutory delusions have a grandiose component: the victim is important enough to be persecuted. In general, paranoia and narcissism are closely related.

    The self-esteeim of the typical undifferentiated schizophrenic, on the other hand, usually totally collapses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Schizophrenia is inside a psychosis spectrum, expected that there is a higher hormonal fluctuations like in bipolar disorder, where euphoria/mania moment may can correlates with higher testosterone activity while depressive period may correlates with lower testosterone activity.

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.
    Higher self esteem works with compensatory effect for lower self esteem ideation as well as cause for paranoid ideation.
  6. Pat Casey says:
    @Santoculto
    Non-infantile schizophrenia tend to express firstly in the 20-25 years old, when happen the end of brain maturation. Schizophrenia looks like a inherited bug in the end of brain maturation.

    Paranoid schizophrenia express itself by over lower self-steem while higher testosterone levels tend to correlate with greater self esteem.

    But seems there is megalomaniac trends in the schizophrenic spectrum.

    I did not read it but I read a memorable review of it I can’t immediately locate, maybe it was a comment somewhere, but the book was Dotter of Her Father’s Eye, about Lucia Joyce, daughter of James, and my god what a heartbreaking story. An English Freudian named Darian Leader came out a couple few years ago with a brief book called Strictly Bipolar that located the essential symptom of mania in a sense of debt that need be lifted or rather thrown as high into the sky as can; and that is to say he named the essential symptom not as hyper-confidence but hyper-altruism, and that it is very much a learned behavior from a home environment that would be eccentrically stimulating or coddling—as when Joyce thought he was gifting his golden tongue to his bright daughter by talking around the house like he wrote in his books, endless lyrical puns. He took her to Jung and he said you made her Schizophrenic. (Incidentally, this is how we know Joyce only misplaced his faith because what he said upon that prognosis was that he always knew his libelous fictioning was going to come due and damn him somehow.) Then as if on a black cue, Sam Beckett came into her life and set her over the edge. I think today she would be treated for manic depression, and wouldn’t have lost her life to the ward. The difference between a functioning manic depressive and a disable schizophrenic seems pretty clearly to me a matter of concentration of the environment that takes an interest in the individual, where paranoid schizophrenics are minus needful verbal engagement. I do think it has more to do with the spoken word than anything else by a big margin. Testosterone seems to be about moods, not ideas to be precise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Psychosis spectrum have as one of their bio-markers exactly as higher mood fluctuation. I'm mild bipolar, i think, and i no have filter to feel the world around me, emotions are always driving my attention. But i also born with capacity to control or at least to analyse myself, while for seems most people with some real severe mental unbalance diagnosis, even they have ''cognitive control'', the effort tend to be too expensive to be done alone without medical intervention. My mood fluctuation is more intense inside than out of me.

    Wisdom is a integrated approach of instinctive, emotional and rational thinking styles.

    People tend to mistake ''biological development'' with ''learning via environmental interactions''. Learning is no the cause but the effect of the first, biological development/brain maturation and functionality. Of course, internalize new routines is a impressive event made by neotenized creatures, but depend on natural dispositions or instinctive/vital/essential inborn trends.
    It's a kind of biological/mental destiny, and not unique environmental destiny. Our personal trajectories are unique and can be very unstable, but our biological/mental trajectories are not strongly unstable. Is little complicated claim that ''this child internalize this routine/learning in every dimension'', because the unique environment factors or experiences. But i think i can claim that she will have greater/average/lower disposition for greater altruistic reactions.

    ''Testosterone seems to be about moods, not ideas to be precise.''

    It seems wrong, specially for creative ideas, intuition, moods are directly conected with ideations (idea productions). Remember, to think is not the same that to have ideas, we are thinking all the time, but have ideas is more particular in the space and time.

    To learn convergent or accumulated knowledge, mood fluctuation, seems, tend to be bad but to produce new knowledge, is fundamental.

    And remember, human beings will tend to react with all their bio-cognitive variables, testosterone or other hormones included. Your thinking seems impossible to be right, or at least wasn't tested to be claimed, sorry, but thanks!

    Schizophrenia seems to be like a inner adhd, difused attention and inner-hyperactivity, a kind of uncontrollable imagination.
  7. Pat Casey says:

    Datoga men were more aggressive than Hadza men on all measures used (physical aggression, verbal aggression, anger, and hostility)

    That reminds me that irritability is reactive and hostility is not, because a hostile irritability is the mark of low-t, just to keep good distinctions in mind. But that also alights to mind that slowness is beauty, majesty, to reign.

    An imperfect broken statement if uttered in sincerity often tells more to the auditor than the most meticulous caution of of utterance could.

    The popular novelist H.: “I cdn’t do anything like that. I got no depth.”

    Gorgias’ dada has made men think. At the present is unknowable we roust amid known fragments of the past “to get light on it”, to get an inkling of the process which produced what we encounter.

    At immense remove from popular novelist, Binyon in 1908 or 1909: “I cdn’t do that. Never can do anything QUICK.” Later, in, I think, The Flight of the Dragon, or it may have been in the same conversation, “Slowness is bueaty.”

    -EP guide to kulchur

    Read More
  8. Mikeybikey says: • Website

    We now come to a leading cause of the African slave trade. Polygyny led to warfare, which led to a surplus of unwanted male captives. These captives could be sold as slaves, but local markets would soon be saturated. The excess supply had to be sold farther away, with the result that slave trading networks began to reach the Middle East as early as the time of Christ (Frost, 2008).

    While outsiders from the Middle East and Europe would later get more and more involved, becoming not only traders but also captors, it was Africans themselves who initially controlled the supply chain. In its early stages, and even later, this trade was driven by factors internal to Africa.

    The money quote. African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy. Who would have thought? Jesse and Al will be screaming for whitey’s head as soon as they hear about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bach

    The money quote. African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy. Who would have thought? Jesse and Al will be screaming for whitey’s head as soon as they hear about it.
     
    But that wouldn't absolve whitey. It's really "demand" that drives an industry, not necessarily the "supply".

    What this does tell is us is that complicity was there and contributed in shaping the context of European "demand".
  9. My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I think any effect of polygyny would depend on the form taken by the extra competition for females.

    If the competition was based on wealth gained from hitting people with swords and taking their cattle then it might favor testosterone.

    If the competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).
    , @bach

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.
     
    Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy.
  10. helena says:

    Nice bit of research. I suggest Peter calls himself, not an Anthropological Heretic but, a Developmental Anthropologist.

    Read More
  11. @Stephen R. Diamond
    Paranoid schizophrenics typically have higher self-esteem than undifferentiated schizophrenics have. Grandiosity is often a component of paranoid schizophrenia; even persecutory delusions have a grandiose component: the victim is important enough to be persecuted. In general, paranoia and narcissism are closely related.

    The self-esteeim of the typical undifferentiated schizophrenic, on the other hand, usually totally collapses.

    Schizophrenia is inside a psychosis spectrum, expected that there is a higher hormonal fluctuations like in bipolar disorder, where euphoria/mania moment may can correlates with higher testosterone activity while depressive period may correlates with lower testosterone activity.

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.
    Higher self esteem works with compensatory effect for lower self esteem ideation as well as cause for paranoid ideation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stephen R. Diamond

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.
     
    You're saying that the hormonal fluctuations actually drive behavioral instability? (Rather than being mainly a consequence?)

    Do individuals with borderline personality disorder show excessive hormonal fluctuation?

    [Whose theory is this?]
  12. I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is. Maybe in polygynous populations for older males the costs of testosterone outweigh the benefits because either you gather a harem at the right age or you simply lost? For monogamous populations on the other side a slower decrease in testosterone could be useful as males worked until they died and the well-being of their offspring depended on that work. Of course one has to keep in mind that people didn´t get as old today in the first place, so any traits which occur in a higher age might be coincidental

    Read More
  13. TheJester says:

    Typically, the more men are polygynous in a given society, the greater the age difference between husbands and wives. [...] The temporary celibacy of young men in polygynous societies is rarely absolute, however. While it often postpones the establishment of a stable pair-bond and the procreation of children, it often does not preclude dalliance with unmarried girls, adultery with younger wives of older men, or the rape or seduction of women conquered in warfare. Thus, what sometimes looks like temporary celibacy is, in fact, temporary promiscuity. These young men often devote themselves to warfare during their unmarried years and sometimes homosexuality is tolerated during that period.

    I spent a decade living and working in Saudi Arabia. This describes Saudi (Sunni) culture at its core. Saudi males are almost universally promiscuous when given the opportunity (they are always “dating” so to speak). It explains why, as I write, the radical Wahhabi movement (ISIL, ISIS, IS, Daiish … or whatever you want to call it) sanctions making “sex slaves” of female captives taken in war. Although hidden from view, homosexuality is also prevalent among young Saudi males denied access to women. (One commentator I ran across suggested, as a generalization, that homosexuality was a temporary stage experienced by Saudi males — part of growing up — but ultimately did them no harm.) In a case close to home, a young Saudi male sexually molested the son of my Eritiean driver. My driver informed the police, but (as is the universal practice in Saudi Arabia) no legal action was taken against the Saudi male.

    Read More
  14. Rehmat says:

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Orthodox Jewish communities, Mormons, African pagans, Hindus and Muslims, still practice polygamy. In fact, in India, there are more Hindu polygamists (4.9%) than Muslim polygamists (3.7%).

    Interestingly, the first western political leader to campaign for polygamy was no other than Duma Deputy Speaker and leader of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky. He actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Olga Gumanova’s article entitled Four wives always better than one?, published on Russian website, Pravda.Ru on April 13, 2011 – makes an interesting reading….

    http://rehmat1.com/2011/04/24/polygamy-and-wests-demographic-decline/

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    I'd imagine monogamy must increase effective population size which would speed up mutation rate whereas polygyny would focus selection on traits that were the most useful in a particular environment.
    , @Anonymous
    What Orthodox Jews practice polygamy? Ashkenazi Orthodox do not as it was forbidden by rabbinical decree around a thousand years ago.
  15. @Pat Casey
    I did not read it but I read a memorable review of it I can't immediately locate, maybe it was a comment somewhere, but the book was Dotter of Her Father's Eye, about Lucia Joyce, daughter of James, and my god what a heartbreaking story. An English Freudian named Darian Leader came out a couple few years ago with a brief book called Strictly Bipolar that located the essential symptom of mania in a sense of debt that need be lifted or rather thrown as high into the sky as can; and that is to say he named the essential symptom not as hyper-confidence but hyper-altruism, and that it is very much a learned behavior from a home environment that would be eccentrically stimulating or coddling---as when Joyce thought he was gifting his golden tongue to his bright daughter by talking around the house like he wrote in his books, endless lyrical puns. He took her to Jung and he said you made her Schizophrenic. (Incidentally, this is how we know Joyce only misplaced his faith because what he said upon that prognosis was that he always knew his libelous fictioning was going to come due and damn him somehow.) Then as if on a black cue, Sam Beckett came into her life and set her over the edge. I think today she would be treated for manic depression, and wouldn't have lost her life to the ward. The difference between a functioning manic depressive and a disable schizophrenic seems pretty clearly to me a matter of concentration of the environment that takes an interest in the individual, where paranoid schizophrenics are minus needful verbal engagement. I do think it has more to do with the spoken word than anything else by a big margin. Testosterone seems to be about moods, not ideas to be precise.

    Psychosis spectrum have as one of their bio-markers exactly as higher mood fluctuation. I’m mild bipolar, i think, and i no have filter to feel the world around me, emotions are always driving my attention. But i also born with capacity to control or at least to analyse myself, while for seems most people with some real severe mental unbalance diagnosis, even they have ”cognitive control”, the effort tend to be too expensive to be done alone without medical intervention. My mood fluctuation is more intense inside than out of me.

    Wisdom is a integrated approach of instinctive, emotional and rational thinking styles.

    People tend to mistake ”biological development” with ”learning via environmental interactions”. Learning is no the cause but the effect of the first, biological development/brain maturation and functionality. Of course, internalize new routines is a impressive event made by neotenized creatures, but depend on natural dispositions or instinctive/vital/essential inborn trends.
    It’s a kind of biological/mental destiny, and not unique environmental destiny. Our personal trajectories are unique and can be very unstable, but our biological/mental trajectories are not strongly unstable. Is little complicated claim that ”this child internalize this routine/learning in every dimension”, because the unique environment factors or experiences. But i think i can claim that she will have greater/average/lower disposition for greater altruistic reactions.

    ”Testosterone seems to be about moods, not ideas to be precise.”

    It seems wrong, specially for creative ideas, intuition, moods are directly conected with ideations (idea productions). Remember, to think is not the same that to have ideas, we are thinking all the time, but have ideas is more particular in the space and time.

    To learn convergent or accumulated knowledge, mood fluctuation, seems, tend to be bad but to produce new knowledge, is fundamental.

    And remember, human beings will tend to react with all their bio-cognitive variables, testosterone or other hormones included. Your thinking seems impossible to be right, or at least wasn’t tested to be claimed, sorry, but thanks!

    Schizophrenia seems to be like a inner adhd, difused attention and inner-hyperactivity, a kind of uncontrollable imagination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    Well done response. I don't disagree with a bit. I was generalizing to a fault. But you should definitely order Strictly Bipolar if you know the beast. Yes the author is a Freudian, but the thing about Freudians is not that they are universally wrong but that, say, the oedipus complex was brushed over too much that is too particular to be colored by a broad swath. I'm manic depressive and have seen the same shrink for fourteen years, exactly half my life, and by now we just talk shop and hardly ever bring up me personally. He is not a Freudian but he has presided over the textbook Freudian case. A kid remote from puberty was compulsively masturbating such that his parents couldn't help but notice. Doc suspected the parents love life had stalled so he told them how to fix that. Next session everyone is happy and the kids not masturbating anymore. I.e., the kids unconscious was sensing the jealousy of the father's unconscious, which was perturbed about not getting laid, and he was masturbating to relieve the repressed idea that he was going to be castrated by his sexually repressed father. Once the parents love life was good and happy, the kid stopped masturbating, bringing healthy balance back to home life. Point being, in discrete situations, Freud is apt to be useful, and Darian Leader's Strictly Bipolar has made my hyper altruism (when it comes out) at least happily self-aware.

    About emotions and ideas yes you are right I think. Except where ideas come from when they come like sparks, as they do especially midst mania, is ultimately a great numinous mystery that finally touches just about every problem in philosophy, from free will and god to the nature of knowledge and virtue. On a thread around here some time back I sort of riffed on just that, and concluded that spark-like ideas are what's his name's random atomic swerves, while the process of thinking is a bio-chemical equation unfolding. Ideas pop and thinking prods along. I still think that's probably basically true, and rather profound yes indeed, and moreover demonstrable for each individual who considers the strange way a word they can't remember pops into their heads when they stop searching for it's name.

  16. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Myra Esoteric
    My friend's great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    I think any effect of polygyny would depend on the form taken by the extra competition for females.

    If the competition was based on wealth gained from hitting people with swords and taking their cattle then it might favor testosterone.

    If the competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).

    Read More
  17. Sean says:
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    It’s really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.
     
    Not so. Childhood schizoprenia can be diagnosed between the ages of 7 and 13. (The same diagnostic criteria are applied as are to adults.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatric_schizophrenia .

    And then some schizoprenias first appear after testosterone levels have declined. (The paranoid form in particular.)

    I didn’t think I had to mention the comparatively high rates of schizophrenia in blacks, but it is similar to prostrate cancer. Higher prevalence and much more serious (“positive”) symptoms.

    Read More
  18. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world's 50% women population so they don't have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Orthodox Jewish communities, Mormons, African pagans, Hindus and Muslims, still practice polygamy. In fact, in India, there are more Hindu polygamists (4.9%) than Muslim polygamists (3.7%).

    Interestingly, the first western political leader to campaign for polygamy was no other than Duma Deputy Speaker and leader of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky. He actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Olga Gumanova’s article entitled Four wives always better than one?, published on Russian website, Pravda.Ru on April 13, 2011 – makes an interesting reading....

    http://rehmat1.com/2011/04/24/polygamy-and-wests-demographic-decline/

    I’d imagine monogamy must increase effective population size which would speed up mutation rate whereas polygyny would focus selection on traits that were the most useful in a particular environment.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/
  19. @Santoculto
    Schizophrenia is inside a psychosis spectrum, expected that there is a higher hormonal fluctuations like in bipolar disorder, where euphoria/mania moment may can correlates with higher testosterone activity while depressive period may correlates with lower testosterone activity.

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.
    Higher self esteem works with compensatory effect for lower self esteem ideation as well as cause for paranoid ideation.

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.

    You’re saying that the hormonal fluctuations actually drive behavioral instability? (Rather than being mainly a consequence?)

    Do individuals with borderline personality disorder show excessive hormonal fluctuation?

    [Whose theory is this?]

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Mine,

    just speculation ,even a theory.

    I thought this had already been thought before.

    The hormones have an impact on our behavior not *

    Depression is being now known as '' chemical imbalance. '' All mental disorders are related, not *

    I think, as always, the daily hormone imbalance is a cause and consequence, which is expressed by behavior. Everything that happens within us and has relevance or relation to our behavior, will be expressed by behavior.

    Euphoria could be related to higher levels of testosterone, and depressive phases with lower levels. It is a 'deregulation'. We all have hormonal fluctuations, is not * Only these people, and I a little, we have more acute variations.

    Just peculation.

    other example, schizoid personality, make sense have lower testosterone levels.

    Blacks with higher testosterone levels during adolescence, resulting in aggressive/impulsive behavior.
  20. @Stephen R. Diamond

    Is true that paranoia/ persecution mania tend to correlate also with higher self esteem but probably because higher hormonal/humor variation in a daily basis.
     
    You're saying that the hormonal fluctuations actually drive behavioral instability? (Rather than being mainly a consequence?)

    Do individuals with borderline personality disorder show excessive hormonal fluctuation?

    [Whose theory is this?]

    Mine,

    just speculation ,even a theory.

    I thought this had already been thought before.

    The hormones have an impact on our behavior not *

    Depression is being now known as ” chemical imbalance. ” All mental disorders are related, not *

    I think, as always, the daily hormone imbalance is a cause and consequence, which is expressed by behavior. Everything that happens within us and has relevance or relation to our behavior, will be expressed by behavior.

    Euphoria could be related to higher levels of testosterone, and depressive phases with lower levels. It is a ‘deregulation’. We all have hormonal fluctuations, is not * Only these people, and I a little, we have more acute variations.

    Just peculation.

    other example, schizoid personality, make sense have lower testosterone levels.

    Blacks with higher testosterone levels during adolescence, resulting in aggressive/impulsive behavior.

    Read More
  21. Rehmat says:
    @anon
    I'd imagine monogamy must increase effective population size which would speed up mutation rate whereas polygyny would focus selection on traits that were the most useful in a particular environment.

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled ‘The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,’ conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Male provisioning raises carrying capacity, and you're not going to have male provisioning over the long-term if it's not rewarded with marriage and reproduction. So carrying capacity should go down.
    , @unpc downunder
    Feminists are ideological egalitarians, and thus can't see that underclass men treat women a lot worse than middle class men do. They genuinely think that a mild mannered accountant is just as likely to hit a woman as an itinerant labourer with a drug habit. By perceiving domestic violence as something that is widespread, instead of highly concentrated among the underclass, left wing social workers increase the likelihood of underclass women and children being abused and make middle class women more neurotic and anti-male.
    , @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.
     
    Right, so except after a massive war where large numbers of men have been killed then a monogamous culture will generally have a higher effective population size.

    That doesn't mean it's better just that a faster rate of mutation might be a balancing advantage.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.
    This seems inaccurate. What people did PRIVATELY in the post-war era is their own business, but neither the West German constitution or laws allowed polygamy.

    You could make a case for the Hitler regime rather than postwar. Though monogamy was still the "official" line, polygamy was tolerated, sometimes encouraged.

    "Although monogamy was the official
    marriage from of Nazi Germany, the
    society in effect, turned toward
    polygamy because Aryan males were
    encouraged to beget Aryan children with
    as many racially qualified women as
    possible- in and out of wedlock."
    --Young-Bruehl (2002) The anatomy
    of prejudices).


    According to The Fuherer in his own words:

    "Let's remember that after the Thirty
    Years War polygamy was tolerated, so
    that it was thanks to the illegitimate
    child that the nations recovered its
    strength."
    --Adolf Hitler

    "As long as we have in Germany two and a half
    million women vowed to celibacy, we shall be
    forbidden to despise the child born out of wedlock."
    --Adolf Hitler

    Quoted in: L. Pine, 1999, Nazi family Policy

  22. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world's 50% women population so they don't have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Orthodox Jewish communities, Mormons, African pagans, Hindus and Muslims, still practice polygamy. In fact, in India, there are more Hindu polygamists (4.9%) than Muslim polygamists (3.7%).

    Interestingly, the first western political leader to campaign for polygamy was no other than Duma Deputy Speaker and leader of the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky. He actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Olga Gumanova’s article entitled Four wives always better than one?, published on Russian website, Pravda.Ru on April 13, 2011 – makes an interesting reading....

    http://rehmat1.com/2011/04/24/polygamy-and-wests-demographic-decline/

    What Orthodox Jews practice polygamy? Ashkenazi Orthodox do not as it was forbidden by rabbinical decree around a thousand years ago.

    Read More
  23. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Male provisioning raises carrying capacity, and you’re not going to have male provisioning over the long-term if it’s not rewarded with marriage and reproduction. So carrying capacity should go down.

    Read More
  24. matt says:
    @Sean

    This past July, U.S. Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA) led unanimous passage of the Senate Resolution 493 to recognize prostate cancer as an epidemic striking African American men disproportionately.
     
    They are 1.6 times more likely to be diagnosed with prostate cancer and at least 2.4 times more likely to die of it. The disparity in is due to them having higher rates of invasive prostrate cancers. Quite a lot of prostrates cancers picked up by screening and treated (often leaving men impotent and incontinent) are non progressive and would be better left alone, but US doctors over treat everything, because no one was every sued for that.

    It has been suggested that older fathers are responsible for characteristics of as lowered IQ and prevalence of schizophrenia, but schizophrenia is well known for striking after puberty.Our results suggest that delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.


    http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964(15)00124-3/abstract? Our findings suggest that delayed age at puberty could potentially be a predictive biomarker for psychopathology in males at risk for schizophrenia
     
    It's really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.


    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?
    id=10.1371/journal.pone.0054751Significant differences between control and gifted boys in genotype distributions were found for ESR2 (rs928554) and SHBG (rs1799941). A significantly lower number of CAG repeats in the AR gene were found in gifted boys. Our results support the role of genetic factors related to testosterone metabolism in intellectual giftedness. Increased androgen signaling might explain previous results of lower testosterone levels in intellectually gifted boys and add to the understanding of variability in cognitive abilities.
     

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.

    But men don’t have lower IQs than women.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    ''But men don’t have lower IQs than women.''

    But more men have/score lower in iq tests than women.
  25. The general attitude of HBD bloggers like Steve Sailer is that polygamy is bad thing, but I wonder if the western world would benefit from more toleration of trigamy.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners. Often such men are married to bisexual women who would probably be open to three-way relationships. Tax relief could be provided for men supporting more than one woman.

    Read More
  26. Art says:

    Schizophrenia is the result of trauma – not genetics.

    Peter Roger Breggin (born May 11, 1936)[1] is an American psychiatrist and critic of biological psychiatry and psychiatric medication. In his books, he advocates replacing psychiatry’s use of drugs and electroconvulsive therapy with psychotherapy, education, empathy, love and broader human services

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Breggin

    Read More
  27. @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Feminists are ideological egalitarians, and thus can’t see that underclass men treat women a lot worse than middle class men do. They genuinely think that a mild mannered accountant is just as likely to hit a woman as an itinerant labourer with a drug habit. By perceiving domestic violence as something that is widespread, instead of highly concentrated among the underclass, left wing social workers increase the likelihood of underclass women and children being abused and make middle class women more neurotic and anti-male.

    Read More
  28. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.

    Right, so except after a massive war where large numbers of men have been killed then a monogamous culture will generally have a higher effective population size.

    That doesn’t mean it’s better just that a faster rate of mutation might be a balancing advantage.

    Read More
  29. @matt

    Testosterone is apparently related to IQ as well.
     
    But men don't have lower IQs than women.

    ”But men don’t have lower IQs than women.”

    But more men have/score lower in iq tests than women.

    Read More
    • Replies: @matt
    Are you talking about the difference in variance? Sure, but that cuts both ways. There are more men who score really high as well.
  30. bach says:
    @Myra Esoteric
    My friend's great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jm8
    "Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy."

    It may have been reserved for the rich there to a greater extent than Africa, but African Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The bride wealth that allowed men to marry a first wife was traditionally given to some by more prosperous fathers. Others (poorer men) had to earn their own. Those with harems were usually richer men such as chiefs and traders. The kinds of Ashanti and Dahomey had large harems.

    http://www.voxeu.org/article/african-polygamy-past-and-present

    "Polygamy in the data is largely bigamy – 72% of respondents report that they are the only wife, 19% report that their husband has two wives, 7% report that he has three wives, and fewer than 2% report that he has 4 wives or more."
  31. bach says:
    @Mikeybikey

    We now come to a leading cause of the African slave trade. Polygyny led to warfare, which led to a surplus of unwanted male captives. These captives could be sold as slaves, but local markets would soon be saturated. The excess supply had to be sold farther away, with the result that slave trading networks began to reach the Middle East as early as the time of Christ (Frost, 2008).

    While outsiders from the Middle East and Europe would later get more and more involved, becoming not only traders but also captors, it was Africans themselves who initially controlled the supply chain. In its early stages, and even later, this trade was driven by factors internal to Africa.
     
    The money quote. African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy. Who would have thought? Jesse and Al will be screaming for whitey's head as soon as they hear about it.

    The money quote. African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy. Who would have thought? Jesse and Al will be screaming for whitey’s head as soon as they hear about it.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    What this does tell is us is that complicity was there and contributed in shaping the context of European “demand”.

    Read More
  32. Sean says:

    Many blacks in the US and West Indies are descended from the Mandinka tribe, of Gambia, there were breeding farms where selected black slaves would impregnate indentured or transported women from the British Isles.

    Read More
  33. matt says:
    @Santoculto
    ''But men don’t have lower IQs than women.''

    But more men have/score lower in iq tests than women.

    Are you talking about the difference in variance? Sure, but that cuts both ways. There are more men who score really high as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Yes, but your answer seems had been for refute the idea that ''testosterone (maybe/also can) affect negatively cognition''.
  34. iffen says:

    there were breeding farms where selected black slaves would impregnate indentured or transported women from the British Isles

    Sources please.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    http://www.amazon.com/To-Hell-Barbados-Cleansing-Ireland/dp/0863222870
  35. Sean says:
    @iffen

    there were breeding farms where selected black slaves would impregnate indentured or transported women from the British Isles
     
    Sources please.
    Read More
  36. @matt
    Are you talking about the difference in variance? Sure, but that cuts both ways. There are more men who score really high as well.

    Yes, but your answer seems had been for refute the idea that ”testosterone (maybe/also can) affect negatively cognition”.

    Read More
  37. @Santoculto
    Yes, but your answer seems had been for refute the idea that ''testosterone (maybe/also can) affect negatively cognition''.

    It’s a double-edged sword, seems.

    Read More
  38. It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners. How long is it going to take evolution to sort this mess out?

    Has evolution shaped black women to be different than Asian or European women?

    Read More
  39. Jm8 says:

    The Senegal study was conducted in the Sine Saloum region inhabited mostly by the small Serer ethnic minority (14%). Much more of the country is ethnically Wolof (43%) and might have given varying results.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_Senegal

    Read More
  40. delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn’t that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It’s ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It’s important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I’m not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I’ve been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it’s common to lose one’s father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent … or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).

    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn’t necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there’s no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bach

    Supply tends to create its own demand.
     
    I think that's the old economic saw. But the caveat is that more supply can't create more demand if the demand really isn't there. Sometimes the demand curve is a perpendicular line.

    Let's take drugs for example. Notwithstanding the global supply, drugs aren't popular everywhere around the world. Why? Surely not due to lack of willing sellers, but because demand, by legal threat and social norms, has been cut off.

    The consequences for some things are too onerous or taboo (for the consumer). Regardless of supply at any price, it's hard to find takers.

    Some commodities are too obsolete. Room-sized computers? Cathode ray tube monitors? Regardless of supply, very few buyers I imagine.

    So, true, supply does create its own demand, assuming the price is right and a demand curve for it exists at all.

    Great article, by the way, Peter.
    , @Sean
    Badcock

    Interestingly in this respect, rates of admission for PSDs like schizophrenia have decreased by between 10 and 57 per cent in England and Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Australia, and New Zealand. Indeed, even Bleuler, who coined the term schizophrenia, noticed a secular decline in his own lifetime, and a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years. It found that annual inpatient prevalence rates decreased by 52 per cent between1986 and 1996, with no corresponding change in outpatient rates,
     
    Badcock

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201501/testosterone-v-oxytocin-bridging-the-gene-behaviour-gap ...suggests in particular that higher oxytocin, and lower testosterone, should be associated with increased levels of hyper-developed, dysregulated, or affectively biased mentalistic cognition in schizophrenia and depression, as well as other psychotic-affective conditions. For example, a paradigmatic hyper-mentalistic symptom of schizophrenia, paranoia, explicitly involves an exaggerated ‘me and them’ social relationship, and so might be expected to involve unresolved, oxytocin-associated stress and anxiety given the central role of this hormone in mediating both positive, and negative, social connections, and its apparent role in shifting cognition from self to other orientation (…).
     
    , @OilcanFloyd
    "Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration."

    They've been removed from society, but I wouldn't think they've been removed from the marriage market for long, unless there is a substantial sentence. Judging by the percentage of one parent families among blacks who aren't in prison, I also wouldn't think that the incarcerated black men are all that interested in marriage. I'd even guess that many of the black men in prison already have children that they didn't live with before going to prison. Most will probably return to communities where being jailed isn't going to scare the women away.

    Have black women been physically/genetically shaped by polygyny?
  41. Jm8 says:
    @bach

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.
     
    Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy.

    “Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy.”

    It may have been reserved for the rich there to a greater extent than Africa, but African Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The bride wealth that allowed men to marry a first wife was traditionally given to some by more prosperous fathers. Others (poorer men) had to earn their own. Those with harems were usually richer men such as chiefs and traders. The kinds of Ashanti and Dahomey had large harems.

    http://www.voxeu.org/article/african-polygamy-past-and-present

    “Polygamy in the data is largely bigamy – 72% of respondents report that they are the only wife, 19% report that their husband has two wives, 7% report that he has three wives, and fewer than 2% report that he has 4 wives or more.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jm8
    correction: the "Kings" of Ashanti and Dahomey....
  42. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8
    "Perhaps the key difference is that polygyny in EAsia was reserved mainly for the aristocracy."

    It may have been reserved for the rich there to a greater extent than Africa, but African Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The bride wealth that allowed men to marry a first wife was traditionally given to some by more prosperous fathers. Others (poorer men) had to earn their own. Those with harems were usually richer men such as chiefs and traders. The kinds of Ashanti and Dahomey had large harems.

    http://www.voxeu.org/article/african-polygamy-past-and-present

    "Polygamy in the data is largely bigamy – 72% of respondents report that they are the only wife, 19% report that their husband has two wives, 7% report that he has three wives, and fewer than 2% report that he has 4 wives or more."

    correction: the “Kings” of Ashanti and Dahomey….

    Read More
  43. bach says:
    @Peter Frost
    delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn't that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It's ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It's important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I'm not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I've been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it's common to lose one's father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent ... or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).


    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn't necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there's no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    I think that’s the old economic saw. But the caveat is that more supply can’t create more demand if the demand really isn’t there. Sometimes the demand curve is a perpendicular line.

    Let’s take drugs for example. Notwithstanding the global supply, drugs aren’t popular everywhere around the world. Why? Surely not due to lack of willing sellers, but because demand, by legal threat and social norms, has been cut off.

    The consequences for some things are too onerous or taboo (for the consumer). Regardless of supply at any price, it’s hard to find takers.

    Some commodities are too obsolete. Room-sized computers? Cathode ray tube monitors? Regardless of supply, very few buyers I imagine.

    So, true, supply does create its own demand, assuming the price is right and a demand curve for it exists at all.

    Great article, by the way, Peter.

    Read More
  44. Sean says:

    “Wouldn’t that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now” .
    Yes and it is.

    Read More
  45. Sean says:
    @Peter Frost
    delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn't that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It's ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It's important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I'm not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I've been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it's common to lose one's father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent ... or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).


    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn't necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there's no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    Badcock

    Interestingly in this respect, rates of admission for PSDs like schizophrenia have decreased by between 10 and 57 per cent in England and Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Australia, and New Zealand. Indeed, even Bleuler, who coined the term schizophrenia, noticed a secular decline in his own lifetime, and a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years. It found that annual inpatient prevalence rates decreased by 52 per cent between1986 and 1996, with no corresponding change in outpatient rates,

    Badcock

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201501/testosterone-v-oxytocin-bridging-the-gene-behaviour-gap …suggests in particular that higher oxytocin, and lower testosterone, should be associated with increased levels of hyper-developed, dysregulated, or affectively biased mentalistic cognition in schizophrenia and depression, as well as other psychotic-affective conditions. For example, a paradigmatic hyper-mentalistic symptom of schizophrenia, paranoia, explicitly involves an exaggerated ‘me and them’ social relationship, and so might be expected to involve unresolved, oxytocin-associated stress and anxiety given the central role of this hormone in mediating both positive, and negative, social connections, and its apparent role in shifting cognition from self to other orientation (…).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    “a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years.”

    The logical conclusion is that schizophrenia is a cultural phenomena. Schizophrenia is the result of traumatic events.

    It is very simple - traumatic events can cripple the human mind.
  46. The Senegal study was conducted in the Sine Saloum region inhabited mostly by the small Serer ethnic minority (14%). Much more of the country is ethnically Wolof (43%) and might have given varying results.

    The study was done in Senegal but it wasn’t a study on Senegal (which is a creation of French colonial rule). It was a study on hormonal and behavioral differences between monogamous and polygynous men. In any case, we have similar data from other populations of sub-Saharan African origin.

    Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The expression “was usually” is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term ‘polygyamy’):

    Less well known is the rate at which polygamy has declined in Africa in recent decades. In Benin, Burkina Faso, Guinea, and Senegal, more than 60% of married women recorded in DHS data in 1970 were polygamists at the time they were surveyed. For women married in 2000 in these countries, the polygamy rate is less than 40%. Several other countries with DHS surveys have experienced similar erosions of polygamy.

    The decline in the polygyny rate doesn’t mean a decline in polygynous behavior. A big factor seems to be a desire to conform to Christian behavioral norms. If we look at the map (Figure 1), polygyny rates are remaining high in the northern, more Muslim areas of West Africa.

    Sean,

    Interesting. I was unaware of the decline in schizophrenia rates.

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    "The expression “was usually” is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term ‘polygyamy’):"

    I should have been more specific. The more recent study I cited was only the source of the quote on the number of women in polygamous marriages.
    The preceding statement on the number of wives per man ("Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man ... at about 1.2-2") comes rather from data in Boserup that can be found in the source below (table p. 391)

    The dates are 1930's - mid. twentieth century.

    Perspectives on Africa: A Reader in Culture, History and Representation p. 391

    https://books.google.com/books?id=myLOFYZ4dQ0C&pg=PA390&dq=average+number+of+wives+africa&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI1tas_fb0yAIVRlU-Ch2uYQch#v=onepage&q=average%20number%20of%20wives%20africa&f=false
  47. Jm8 says:
    @Peter Frost
    The Senegal study was conducted in the Sine Saloum region inhabited mostly by the small Serer ethnic minority (14%). Much more of the country is ethnically Wolof (43%) and might have given varying results.

    The study was done in Senegal but it wasn't a study on Senegal (which is a creation of French colonial rule). It was a study on hormonal and behavioral differences between monogamous and polygynous men. In any case, we have similar data from other populations of sub-Saharan African origin.

    Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man in West Africa at about 1.2-2.

    The expression "was usually" is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term 'polygyamy'):

    Less well known is the rate at which polygamy has declined in Africa in recent decades. In Benin, Burkina Faso, Guinea, and Senegal, more than 60% of married women recorded in DHS data in 1970 were polygamists at the time they were surveyed. For women married in 2000 in these countries, the polygamy rate is less than 40%. Several other countries with DHS surveys have experienced similar erosions of polygamy.
     
    The decline in the polygyny rate doesn't mean a decline in polygynous behavior. A big factor seems to be a desire to conform to Christian behavioral norms. If we look at the map (Figure 1), polygyny rates are remaining high in the northern, more Muslim areas of West Africa.

    Sean,

    Interesting. I was unaware of the decline in schizophrenia rates.

    “The expression “was usually” is misleading for a study that was done in the year 2000. As the authors themselves note, the polygyny rate was much higher only 30 years earlier. (the study uses the term ‘polygyamy’):”

    I should have been more specific. The more recent study I cited was only the source of the quote on the number of women in polygamous marriages.
    The preceding statement on the number of wives per man (“Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man … at about 1.2-2″) comes rather from data in Boserup that can be found in the source below (table p. 391)

    The dates are 1930′s – mid. twentieth century.

    Perspectives on Africa: A Reader in Culture, History and Representation p. 391

    https://books.google.com/books?id=myLOFYZ4dQ0C&pg=PA390&dq=average+number+of+wives+africa&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CBwQ6AEwAGoVChMI1tas_fb0yAIVRlU-Ch2uYQch#v=onepage&q=average%20number%20of%20wives%20africa&f=false

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  48. Art says:
    @Sean
    Badcock

    Interestingly in this respect, rates of admission for PSDs like schizophrenia have decreased by between 10 and 57 per cent in England and Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Australia, and New Zealand. Indeed, even Bleuler, who coined the term schizophrenia, noticed a secular decline in his own lifetime, and a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years. It found that annual inpatient prevalence rates decreased by 52 per cent between1986 and 1996, with no corresponding change in outpatient rates,
     
    Badcock

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201501/testosterone-v-oxytocin-bridging-the-gene-behaviour-gap ...suggests in particular that higher oxytocin, and lower testosterone, should be associated with increased levels of hyper-developed, dysregulated, or affectively biased mentalistic cognition in schizophrenia and depression, as well as other psychotic-affective conditions. For example, a paradigmatic hyper-mentalistic symptom of schizophrenia, paranoia, explicitly involves an exaggerated ‘me and them’ social relationship, and so might be expected to involve unresolved, oxytocin-associated stress and anxiety given the central role of this hormone in mediating both positive, and negative, social connections, and its apparent role in shifting cognition from self to other orientation (…).
     

    “a recent Canadian study showed a 42 per cent decrease in the number of first-admission schizophrenia cases over 20 years.”

    The logical conclusion is that schizophrenia is a cultural phenomena. Schizophrenia is the result of traumatic events.

    It is very simple – traumatic events can cripple the human mind.

    Read More
  49. @Peter Frost
    delayed age at puberty may be associated with negative prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia in males.

    Wouldn't that mean that schizophrenia is less common in younger generations? (since puberty is beginning at younger ages now )

    the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own [ bride price ] before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    This was the main barrier to young African men on the marriage market. In Western societies, credit card debt is becoming a kind of unofficial bride price. Many young women use marriage as a means to pay off their credit card debts and university loans.

    African slave trade originally resulted from African polygamy.

    It's ironic that African immigrants are eligible for Affirmative Action. Most Africans living today are descended from slave owners, slave traders, and/or slave captors.

    My friend’s great-grandfather was from Hong Kong and had 4 wives, which was legal until the 1970s there. Are Southern Chinese men seen as typically more masculine or testosterone filled, think about it.

    The polygyny rate in China was always less than 10%. It's important to distinguish between societies that permit polygyny and those where most women are in polygynous relationships. The latter societies are unusual outside sub-Saharan Africa, Papua New Guinea, and Melanesia.

    I wonder what the selection pressure for testosterone in older males is.

    Polygyny is associated with fast life history, although I'm not sure whether this holds true for Africa. I've been told by Africans that the death of a father is not the same human tragedy in Africa as it is here. Fathers tend to be old guys, so it's common to lose one's father in childhood.

    Polygamy is allowed in almost every religion for some good reasons, such as, to stop adultery and provide financial support to world’s 50% women population so they don’t have to sell their bodies to feed, clothe and shelter themselves.

    Polygyny encourages adultery because a single old man cannot sexually satisfy all of his wives. It also requires women to support themselves to a greater extent ... or seek support from the government. This is the case in Israel, where the government ends up supporting the wives of polygynous Bedouin chiefs.

    Russia Vladimir Zhirinovsky [...] actively crusaded for the legalization of polygamy in Russia, but failed. He honestly believed that with eleven million surplus women and the deepening demographic crisis in Russia, polygamy would go a long way to fight the demographic decline.

    Women in polygynous relationships have a lower fertility rate than women in monogamous relationships. Also, that figure of eleven million surplus women in Russia should be taken with a grain of salt. It includes single mothers (who have mixed feelings about having more children) and older women who have reduced fertility or no fertility at all.

    If the [male-male] competition was based on wealth from trading then the effect on testosterone might be reversed (or at least different, competitive but in a non-violent way).


    Only in a society where the State monopolizes the use of violence. Otherwise, a successful trader will still have to defend himself and his wives (and daughters) from predatory young men.

    If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet – their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    Population growth is a function of the means to support that growth. Otherwise, the surplus population will perish (famine, war, plagues, etc.). In the 1600s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered only half a million. There was then a spurt of population growth made possible by expansion of the market economy. Polygyny isn't necessary to drive population growth.

    A lot of working class women end up as single mothers on welfare after having children with “bad boy” working class males and single middle class males aren’t interested in relationships with them. Perhaps it would be better if more working class women entered into three way relationships with successful, extroverted white males who already have partners.

    At present, there are more single men than single women in the 20 to 40 age bracket. This imbalance is even greater if we look only at childless singles. So there's no shortage of potential husbands out there. The problem is on the other side of the ledger: the large number of women who are in polygynous relationships (either serial or nonserial polygyny), as well as the large number who become single mothers and drop out of the marriage market.

    But that wouldn’t absolve whitey. It’s really “demand” that drives an industry, not necessarily the “supply”.

    Supply tends to create its own demand.

    It doesn’t seem that American black men have the problem of a lack of partners.

    Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.

    “Large numbers of young African American men have been removed from the marriage market through incarceration.”

    They’ve been removed from society, but I wouldn’t think they’ve been removed from the marriage market for long, unless there is a substantial sentence. Judging by the percentage of one parent families among blacks who aren’t in prison, I also wouldn’t think that the incarcerated black men are all that interested in marriage. I’d even guess that many of the black men in prison already have children that they didn’t live with before going to prison. Most will probably return to communities where being jailed isn’t going to scare the women away.

    Have black women been physically/genetically shaped by polygyny?

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  50. Sean says:

    Oxytocin is quite interesting for clanishness

    http://www.sfu.ca/biology/faculty/crespi/pdfs/178-Crespi2015.pdf Oxytocin and socially-mediated aggression A third, less-explored dimension for effects of oxytocin involves increases in social aggression, whereby this europeptide reduces thresholds for defence of one’s family, social relationships, or larger social group

    The effect of diferent cultures produced by a common gene

    http://www.unz.com/pfrost/a-genetic-marker-for-empathy/

    Emotional suppression was most clearly observable among Koreans with the OXTR GG genotype, those characterized as more socioemotionally sensitive, compared to those with AA genotype. Among Americans, the pattern was reversed, such that those with the GG genotype engaged in less emotional suppression, compared to those with the AA genotype. (Kim et al., 2011)

    This is actually the reverse of the Baldwin effect. If white American culture exercises less control over emotions, particularly in their possible adverse effects on others, there should correspondingly be weaker genetic control. The same selection pressure should have produced similar cultural and genetic outcomes. Yet, paradoxically, the actual outcomes are almost poles apart. Although white Americans are less softwired for empathy and control of emotions, they seem to be more hardwired in this respect.

    This seems similar to http://www.unz.com/pfrost/two-paths/ about the dopamine D4 receptor gene (DRD4) where you said “There is a culture/gene interaction in the carriers, whereas the noncarriers show no difference, regardless of ethnic origin”. I wonder if in polygyny such cultural outcome gene variants are less common.

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  51. The preceding statement on the number of wives per man (“Polygamy was usually Bigamy, with the average number of wives per man … at about 1.2-2″) comes rather from data in Boserup that can be found in the source below

    Fine. It’s actually the number of wives per married man. (In the past, men usually remained celibate during the first ten years past puberty).

    They’ve been removed from society, but I wouldn’t think they’ve been removed from the marriage market for long, unless there is a substantial sentence.

    Actually, it doesn’t matter how long they are sent to prison. At any one point in time, large numbers of young black men are in prison and thus unavailable for marriage. A black woman could wait until a group of single men gets released. By that time, however, another group of single men who were formerly available will now be in prison.

    Judging by the percentage of one parent families among blacks who aren’t in prison, I also wouldn’t think that the incarcerated black men are all that interested in marriage.

    Most of them probably aren’t interested in traditional Christian marriage, i.e., lifelong monogamy with high paternal investment. But that’s the case for many black men regardless of whether they’re in prison (although the Senegalese data suggest that a certain proportion are naturally predisposed toward monogamy).

    Have black women been physically/genetically shaped by polygyny?

    To date, there has been less research on that point. The Senegalese data indicate the existence of a behavioral polymorphism. If some black men are naturally predisposed toward monogamy, the same may be true for some black women. There seem to be competing behavioral packages within Africa itself.

    The pressure of sexual selection has been much weaker on black women.

    I wonder if in polygyny such cultural outcome gene variants are less common.

    I don’t think polygyny vs. monogamy is a factor. We shouldn’t look for a unified theory of HBD. Natural selection is multidimensional.

    In the case of Europe vs. East Asia, there seem to have been different behavioral/psychological solutions to the same evolutionary problem, i.e., construction of stable, advanced societies. Europeans, especially Western Europeans, have resolved this problem via a pathway of weaker kinship, which in turn led to greater individualism, greater capacity for guilt proneness and affective empathy, and a greater tendency to frame violation of social rules in terms of moral universalism and moral absolutism.

    East Asians have resolved this problem via another pathway: a lesser sense of self. In general, there is a stronger tendency toward holistic attention, emphasis on social versus personal happiness, and suspension of self-interest. Conversely, there is a weaker tendency toward self-expression, self-esteem, and self-efficacy.

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  52. Plural Wives is widely approved of in both the Old and New Testaments, and only the insistence of the Emperor of Rome when he made the Christian Church the official religion of the Empire pushed the Church into caving in on this issue, and adopt the Roman law of one wife as Christian law. For more info Google “FounderChurch Portal”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You are wrong there. Plural wives are not approved in the New testament. Can you quote from the New testament where this alleged approval is?
  53. Pat Casey says:
    @Santoculto
    Psychosis spectrum have as one of their bio-markers exactly as higher mood fluctuation. I'm mild bipolar, i think, and i no have filter to feel the world around me, emotions are always driving my attention. But i also born with capacity to control or at least to analyse myself, while for seems most people with some real severe mental unbalance diagnosis, even they have ''cognitive control'', the effort tend to be too expensive to be done alone without medical intervention. My mood fluctuation is more intense inside than out of me.

    Wisdom is a integrated approach of instinctive, emotional and rational thinking styles.

    People tend to mistake ''biological development'' with ''learning via environmental interactions''. Learning is no the cause but the effect of the first, biological development/brain maturation and functionality. Of course, internalize new routines is a impressive event made by neotenized creatures, but depend on natural dispositions or instinctive/vital/essential inborn trends.
    It's a kind of biological/mental destiny, and not unique environmental destiny. Our personal trajectories are unique and can be very unstable, but our biological/mental trajectories are not strongly unstable. Is little complicated claim that ''this child internalize this routine/learning in every dimension'', because the unique environment factors or experiences. But i think i can claim that she will have greater/average/lower disposition for greater altruistic reactions.

    ''Testosterone seems to be about moods, not ideas to be precise.''

    It seems wrong, specially for creative ideas, intuition, moods are directly conected with ideations (idea productions). Remember, to think is not the same that to have ideas, we are thinking all the time, but have ideas is more particular in the space and time.

    To learn convergent or accumulated knowledge, mood fluctuation, seems, tend to be bad but to produce new knowledge, is fundamental.

    And remember, human beings will tend to react with all their bio-cognitive variables, testosterone or other hormones included. Your thinking seems impossible to be right, or at least wasn't tested to be claimed, sorry, but thanks!

    Schizophrenia seems to be like a inner adhd, difused attention and inner-hyperactivity, a kind of uncontrollable imagination.

    Well done response. I don’t disagree with a bit. I was generalizing to a fault. But you should definitely order Strictly Bipolar if you know the beast. Yes the author is a Freudian, but the thing about Freudians is not that they are universally wrong but that, say, the oedipus complex was brushed over too much that is too particular to be colored by a broad swath. I’m manic depressive and have seen the same shrink for fourteen years, exactly half my life, and by now we just talk shop and hardly ever bring up me personally. He is not a Freudian but he has presided over the textbook Freudian case. A kid remote from puberty was compulsively masturbating such that his parents couldn’t help but notice. Doc suspected the parents love life had stalled so he told them how to fix that. Next session everyone is happy and the kids not masturbating anymore. I.e., the kids unconscious was sensing the jealousy of the father’s unconscious, which was perturbed about not getting laid, and he was masturbating to relieve the repressed idea that he was going to be castrated by his sexually repressed father. Once the parents love life was good and happy, the kid stopped masturbating, bringing healthy balance back to home life. Point being, in discrete situations, Freud is apt to be useful, and Darian Leader’s Strictly Bipolar has made my hyper altruism (when it comes out) at least happily self-aware.

    About emotions and ideas yes you are right I think. Except where ideas come from when they come like sparks, as they do especially midst mania, is ultimately a great numinous mystery that finally touches just about every problem in philosophy, from free will and god to the nature of knowledge and virtue. On a thread around here some time back I sort of riffed on just that, and concluded that spark-like ideas are what’s his name’s random atomic swerves, while the process of thinking is a bio-chemical equation unfolding. Ideas pop and thinking prods along. I still think that’s probably basically true, and rather profound yes indeed, and moreover demonstrable for each individual who considers the strange way a word they can’t remember pops into their heads when they stop searching for it’s name.

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  54. @Stephen R. Diamond

    It’s really stupid to think schizophrenia is mainly related to paternal mutations rather that testosterone levels, when no one gets it before adolescence.
     
    Not so. Childhood schizoprenia can be diagnosed between the ages of 7 and 13. (The same diagnostic criteria are applied as are to adults.) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pediatric_schizophrenia .

    And then some schizoprenias first appear after testosterone levels have declined. (The paranoid form in particular.)

    Indeed. The notion that schizophrenia is mainly the product of testosterone is both dubious and simplistic. In fact schiz has a complex number of causes – and environmental factors weigh heavily. In fact to show how complex the subject is, some studies indicate that LOW not high testosterone may be a factor in schiz, leading to so called “Testosterone Boosters” therapy.

    “Recent neuroendocrinological studies have suggested that gonadal sex hormones play a significant role in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia. Low testosterone levels are also associated with negative symptoms in chronic schizophrenia. Patients receiving treatment for schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder also show high rates of sexual dysfunction. Studies suggest that testosterone augmentation may play a potential therapeutic role in these patients.” —- Agarwal 2013. High prevalence of low testosterone levels in male patients with schizophrenia. European Psychiatry. Vol 28, 2013

    Other data again show the complexity involved rather than simplistic claims. For example, some studies show that individuals who had previous fighting knowledge continue to be aggressive AFTER testosterne levels are REDUCED. (L. Finley, Encyc of Juv Violence, 2006) Your continued use of the “testosterone factor” as some sort of negative “marker” on black people is not only misguided but an example of naively mistaking correlation with causation.

    Indeed, some studies show aggression associated with LOW testosterone levels, when certain other medical conditions are involved. Numerous other researchers have FAILED to replicate claimed testosterone-violence links, whether in juvenile or adult populations (Alvarez and Bachman 2007). In fact the literature on the field is very mixed on the issue. (Violence: the enduring problem. By Alex Alvarez, Ronet Bachman. 2007) Says one standard textbook:

    “In fact, empirical research shows little if any direct linkage between testosterone and physical aggressiveness.” (Walsh and Beaver, 2008, Biosocial crimnology).

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  55. @Jm8
    "Extraversion may assist a reproductive strategy of seducing women, rather than providing for them."

    In most African cultures a major requirement was the ability to pay a traditional bride price to the prospective bride's family(which they might be required to return the case of a divorce). In some tribes bride wealth (for a first wife) might be be contributed by a single man's relatives, but the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    In most African cultures a major requirement was the ability to pay a traditional bride price to the prospective bride’s family(which they might be required to return the case of a divorce). In some tribes bride wealth (for a first wife) might be be contributed by a single man’s relatives, but the need for some young men to work to accumulate their own before marrying also contributed to later male marriage ages.

    Extraversion as Frost says can help in the seduction game- the more aggressive, on the average will see greater success. But you are correct- the traditional dowry required hard work to earn enough to acquire a bride. If the full amount was not forthcoming up front then bride-service was often used- such as herding cattle for a number of years or whatever agreed period. Interestingly the Bible shows Jacob serving 7 years for his bride Rachael. In some tribes one key grounds for divorce after the marriage was non-support.

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  56. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @FounderChurch
    Plural Wives is widely approved of in both the Old and New Testaments, and only the insistence of the Emperor of Rome when he made the Christian Church the official religion of the Empire pushed the Church into caving in on this issue, and adopt the Roman law of one wife as Christian law. For more info Google "FounderChurch Portal"

    You are wrong there. Plural wives are not approved in the New testament. Can you quote from the New testament where this alleged approval is?

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  57. @Rehmat
    @anon

    Your imagination is not based on facts. West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution. If more Jews had practiced polygamy instead of having one or two women in closet - their population would have been more than 13 million after 3500 years.

    A 2009 study, entitled 'The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness,' conducted by professors Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers (University of Pennsylvania) for the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) – concludes that though American women are better off economically since 1970s – socially they feel more miserable than before….. The women who have been to a women shelter (there are 300 of those in Canada as compared to none for the men) – will tell you how callously they are treated by the hags employed there. Distressed women are pressured to end their marriages and are offered help and resources to do so. Feminists are not interested in the welfare of women. They rely on domestic violence for their cushy jobs and to emasculate men – by portraying them as abusers….”

    http://rehmat1.com/2009/10/17/study-american-women-are-not-happy/

    West Germany allowed polygamy after WWII to decrease German widows and orphan being forced to prostitution.
    This seems inaccurate. What people did PRIVATELY in the post-war era is their own business, but neither the West German constitution or laws allowed polygamy.

    You could make a case for the Hitler regime rather than postwar. Though monogamy was still the “official” line, polygamy was tolerated, sometimes encouraged.

    “Although monogamy was the official
    marriage from of Nazi Germany, the
    society in effect, turned toward
    polygamy because Aryan males were
    encouraged to beget Aryan children with
    as many racially qualified women as
    possible- in and out of wedlock.”
    –Young-Bruehl (2002) The anatomy
    of prejudices).

    According to The Fuherer in his own words:

    “Let’s remember that after the Thirty
    Years War polygamy was tolerated, so
    that it was thanks to the illegitimate
    child that the nations recovered its
    strength.”
    –Adolf Hitler

    “As long as we have in Germany two and a half
    million women vowed to celibacy, we shall be
    forbidden to despise the child born out of wedlock.”
    –Adolf Hitler

    Quoted in: L. Pine, 1999, Nazi family Policy

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  58. Jm8 says:

    “The Congolese participants were likewise unrepresentative of Congolese in general. They were Lese who inhabit the Ituri forest in proximity to the Efe pygmies. Many Lese are, in fact, partly of pygmy ancestry.”

    They may have Pygmy admixture but I would doubt they have much more that most bantu Groups from the region(Who usually have a small amount of Pygmy admixture since Pygmies/ancestral Pygmies were the first people of Central Africa), and because the populations of Pygmy tribes(being nomadic hunter gatherers) are usually much smaller than those neighboring settled groups.

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  59. Jm8 says:

    “Rohrmann et al. (2007)

    This study concluded that “contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men.”

    This study also found that 45-69 year old black men have higher testosterone levels (5.62 ng/ml) than do 20-44 year old black men (5.35 ng/ml). Such a finding is paradoxical and indicates a faulty dataset.”

    According to one commenter this is because:

    “The source of the “bias” was obvious: the numbers were adjusted for age.
    Mazur looked at the same data without adjustments, and his plot show testosterone declining with age (and extremely minimal black-white differences in those under 30).”

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html

    “In reality, large, representative US samples show minimal or no black-white differences in T. Using NHANES III data, Rohrmann et al. find elevated estrogen but not testosterone in black males. A recent reanalysis by Mazur…, in which Mazur examines the same data but applies no sampling weights, finds slightly elevated T in blacks. Mazur, reviewing the results of his and other studies, nonetheless concludes:

    “Despite inconsistencies among studies, all agree that there are no major, general differences in T or SHBG (or calculated BioT) among the ethnic groups that have been studied.””

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    Below refers to a a study which adjusts for both age and tanner stage (in Black White, and Mexican adolescent males in the US):

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2013/04/no-evidence-for-higher-testosterone-in.html

    Racial/ethnic differences in serum sex steroid hormone concentrations in US adolescent males.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23354421

    "We measured serum testosterone, estradiol, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) by immunoassay in 134 males aged 12-19 in NHANES III. Mean concentrations were compared by race/ethnicity adjusting for age, Tanner stage, percent body fat, waist, physical activity, tobacco smoke, and the other hormones.

    ....After multivariable adjustment, in the 12-15-year-old males, testosterone concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks than whites (p = 0.043), SHBG concentration did not significantly differ between the two groups. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone (versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.002) and lowest SHBG (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.010; versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.047) concentrations. Estradiol concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks (p = 0.11) and Mexican-Americans (p = 0.033) compared with non-Hispanic whites. After multivariable adjustment, in the 16-19-year-old males, testosterone, estradiol, and SHBG concentrations did not differ between non-Hispanic blacks and whites. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone concentration (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.08), but did not differ from the other groups on estradiol and SHBG concentrations. In both age groups, these patterns were generally present, but less pronounced after adjusting for age and Tanner stage only."
  60. Jm8 says:
    @Jm8
    "Rohrmann et al. (2007)

    This study concluded that “contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men.”

    This study also found that 45-69 year old black men have higher testosterone levels (5.62 ng/ml) than do 20-44 year old black men (5.35 ng/ml). Such a finding is paradoxical and indicates a faulty dataset."

    According to one commenter this is because:

    "The source of the "bias" was obvious: the numbers were adjusted for age.
    Mazur looked at the same data without adjustments, and his plot show testosterone declining with age (and extremely minimal black-white differences in those under 30)."

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html

    "In reality, large, representative US samples show minimal or no black-white differences in T. Using NHANES III data, Rohrmann et al. find elevated estrogen but not testosterone in black males. A recent reanalysis by Mazur..., in which Mazur examines the same data but applies no sampling weights, finds slightly elevated T in blacks. Mazur, reviewing the results of his and other studies, nonetheless concludes:

    "Despite inconsistencies among studies, all agree that there are no major, general differences in T or SHBG (or calculated BioT) among the ethnic groups that have been studied.""

    Below refers to a a study which adjusts for both age and tanner stage (in Black White, and Mexican adolescent males in the US):

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2013/04/no-evidence-for-higher-testosterone-in.html

    Racial/ethnic differences in serum sex steroid hormone concentrations in US adolescent males.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23354421

    “We measured serum testosterone, estradiol, and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) by immunoassay in 134 males aged 12-19 in NHANES III. Mean concentrations were compared by race/ethnicity adjusting for age, Tanner stage, percent body fat, waist, physical activity, tobacco smoke, and the other hormones.

    ….After multivariable adjustment, in the 12-15-year-old males, testosterone concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks than whites (p = 0.043), SHBG concentration did not significantly differ between the two groups. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone (versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.002) and lowest SHBG (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.010; versus non-Hispanic black: p = 0.047) concentrations. Estradiol concentration was lower in non-Hispanic blacks (p = 0.11) and Mexican-Americans (p = 0.033) compared with non-Hispanic whites. After multivariable adjustment, in the 16-19-year-old males, testosterone, estradiol, and SHBG concentrations did not differ between non-Hispanic blacks and whites. Mexican-Americans had the highest testosterone concentration (versus non-Hispanic white: p = 0.08), but did not differ from the other groups on estradiol and SHBG concentrations. In both age groups, these patterns were generally present, but less pronounced after adjusting for age and Tanner stage only.”

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  61. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I cannot get the print function to work properly. Even if I reduce scaling to 80 % and print in landscape mode, I still find the last word(s) of each line missing in my printout. I have a Mac and use Safari for a browser.
    Thanks in advance for advice.

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  62. They may have Pygmy admixture but I would doubt they have much more that most bantu Groups from the region

    Actually, there is considerably more intermarriage between the Lese (Bantu) and the Efe (pygmies) than is the case in other groups of the region.

    Why is there more intermarriage among the Efe and Lese than between other farmer and forager groups? (p. 235)

    https://books.google.ca/books?hl=fr&lr=&id=pCJOQB-4GyQC&oi=fnd&pg=PA215&dq=lese+intermarriage&ots=0c6_jw7-IK&sig=EICTD9LOWARkMCskccnkVvFDnfg#v=onepage&q=lese%20intermarriage&f=false

    According to one commenter this is because: “The source of the “bias” was obvious: the numbers were adjusted for age.

    The means of the three age categories were not adjusted for age:

    We evaluated racial/ethnic differences in the hormones and SHBG 1) overall after adjusting for age and 2) within three age categories reflecting hypothesized hormonal transitions through life: early adulthood (20–44 yr old), mid-adulthood (45–69 yr old), and late adulthood (70
    yr old).

    In other words, black men in mid-adulthood had higher testosterone levels than did black men in early adulthood. That difference was not an artefact of statistical adjustment. It was real.

    “In reality, large, representative US samples show minimal or no black-white differences

    You’re simply repeating a conclusion that is based on the faulty premises I outlined in my column. The black-white difference in testosterone is concentrated in teenagers and young adults. It is not significant in middle-aged adults, and there is evidence that it actually reverses in older age groups. If you look at adults in general, you will see no difference.

    Below refers to a study which adjusts for both age and tanner stage

    If you control for Tanner stage, you’re comparing younger black teenage males with older white teenage males. You’re no longer comparing subjects of the same age. As I stated in my column, it may be that the black-white testosterone difference is partly explained by blacks maturing sexually at an earlier age. But this would not explain why the testosterone advantage persists beyond adolescence.

    No, those numbers were not adjusted for age. They were taken from Table 1 and not Table 2 (which are adjusted for age)

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  63. No, those numbers were not adjusted for age

    Ignore that last sentence. It was part of an earlier effort of mine to explain that adjustment for Tanner stage is not the same thing as adjusting for age.

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    • Replies: @Jm8
    "In other words, black men in mid-adulthood had higher testosterone levels than did black men in early adulthood. That difference was not an artefact of statistical adjustment. It was real."


    Mazur's re-anaysis does not appear to show this. The levels both black and white men are higher in early than mid-adulthood in his scatterplot.
    Nor does the excerpt you quoted seem to to state that mid-adulthood levels were higher.

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html
  64. Jm8 says:
    @Peter Frost
    No, those numbers were not adjusted for age

    Ignore that last sentence. It was part of an earlier effort of mine to explain that adjustment for Tanner stage is not the same thing as adjusting for age.

    “In other words, black men in mid-adulthood had higher testosterone levels than did black men in early adulthood. That difference was not an artefact of statistical adjustment. It was real.”

    Mazur’s re-anaysis does not appear to show this. The levels both black and white men are higher in early than mid-adulthood in his scatterplot.
    Nor does the excerpt you quoted seem to to state that mid-adulthood levels were higher.

    http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html

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