The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewPeter Frost Archive
Rotherham: The Search for Answers
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

In my last post, I discussed the revelations from Rotherham, England. In a town of some 250,000 people, at least 1,400 school-age girls have been “groomed” for prostitution by organized gangs. Grooming begins with seduction by “lover boys” and ends in abduction, trafficking, and confinement. It is this final stage that apparently explains why some 500 girls were missing from the 15 to 19 age group at the last census.

Two more points. All of the girls are white, and all of the groomers are Pakistani, except for a few Afghans and Roma.

Even before the latest revelations, and even in antiracist circles, there was a growing (though reluctant) awareness that this social problem is disproportionately “Asian,” a term that increasingly means Muslim South Asian. The cause, however, seems elusive:

[...] this disparity begs further exploration and, if possible, explanation. Admittedly, this is not an easy job. Complex social issues can rarely be explained in terms of a single factor and moving from correlation to causality is particularly challenging. Nonetheless, in CSE [child sexual exploitation], as with other crimes, observed relationships between race and offending may well be mediated by social, structural or situational factors. Asians, like whites or blacks, do not commit CSE offences because they are Asian, white or black. This lazy, circular logic, verging on quasi-geneticism, would label every Asian adult equally a groomer-in-waiting and fails to address the immediate precipitates of CSE, such as ready access to children and low levels of formal or informal surveillance to constrain deviant behaviour. (Cockbain, 2013)

But if we wish to understand constraints on deviancy, one key variable may be ethnicity, particularly if an ethnic boundary separates the victim from the victimizer. It is precisely within this underdetermined space that such constraints are most likely to break down.

The limits to shame

In most of the world’s cultures, deviant behavior is kept in check by shaming. A wrongdoing is witnessed by other people, who spread the word to others. The wrongdoers feel shame, knowing that their reputation is now tarnished. In cases of severe wrongdoing, they may have to leave their community.

As a means to keep deviancy in check, shaming has three limitations:

- It cannot control behavior that is not witnessed by anyone other than the wrongdoers themselves.

- It cannot control behavior that is aimed at someone outside one’s community.

- Because shame is socially mediated, it is less effective in modern Western societies, where people generally interact as anonymous individuals.

A minority of world cultures supplement shame with another means of behavior control. These cultures, essentially those of Western Europe, rely much more on internal mental mechanisms—guilt and affective empathy—to enforce social rules that have the perceived backing of moral authority. You feel guilt when you break a rule or even merely think about breaking it. No witnesses are necessary, other than the imaginary one inside your mind (Benedict, (1946 [2005]). Similarly, no one tells you to feel empathy when you see another person unjustly suffering. Refusal to act on these feelings can lead to anguish, depression and, ultimately, suicidal ideation (Jadhav, 1996;O’Connor et al.,2007). Guilt and empathy are thus more effective than shame as means to control behavior.

The capacity to feel guilt and empathy varies from one individual to another, the heritability being moderate to high (Chakrabarti and Baron-Cohen, 2013; Daviset al., 1994). There has thus been a potential for gene-culture co-evolution, i.e., guilt cultures may have selected for individuals with a higher capacity for guilt and empathy. Even if the behavioral differences between guilt cultures and shame cultures are entirely softwired, the consequences are nonetheless real.

From shame culture to guilt culture

Immigration is not just a movement from one place to another. It is also a movement from one culture to another. In Britain in general, it has largely involved people coming to a guilt culture from various shame cultures in South Asia, the Caribbean, and elsewhere.

In South Asia, be it Hindu India or Muslim Pakistan and Bangladesh, shaming provides a woman with no protection from unwanted sexual advances once she ventures beyond her own neighborhood:

The prime danger is from male strangers who are seen as liable to take advantage of an unescorted woman. Such strangers, as a category, are presumed to be sexually predatory and always ready to pounce. Some young men (and some not so young) reinforce that notion in town streets and in buses through the common practice known in Indian English as “eve-teasing.” In the anonymity of the streets, some men who would spring fiercely to the defense of the women of their own families, leer, hoot, pinch, and make sexually pointed remarks at passing women whom they do not know and who do not know them [...]. However, they rarely act that way in their own mohalla, neighbourhood. (Mandelbaum, 1993, pp. 9-10)

In a shame culture, a wrongdoing is not shameful if the witnesses are from outside one’s “moral community.” Often, there is no clear boundary between outside and inside; the moral community simply fades away as one goes farther away from the people one knows. The boundary is much more clear-cut if it coincides with a difference in religion. When Moroccan and Turkish “lover boys” were interviewed in Amsterdam, it was found that their identity as Muslims strongly influenced how they perceived their victims:

One pimp told us that it was not only easier to get Dutch girls into prostitution, but that they were worth less than other girls and therefore deserved to end up as prostitutes. ‘Culturally and religiously, a Dutch girl is little more than a pig to a loverboy. She’s nothing, she’s of no value. When that’s what you’re thinking, you can completely block out your emotions.’ As mentioned, most loverboys were reluctant to manipulate the daughters of immigrants into prostitution, especially when it came to girls leading a pious life. ‘We are obligated to treat Moroccan girls as we would treat our own sisters; we can’t treat them as rags. You can’t just make a Moroccan girl work for you. (…) Listen, when a Moroccan girl wants to do it, that’s different. But if she goes to school and wears a headscarf, it’s just not right’. (Van San and Bovenkerk,2013)

Muslim girls were not avoided, however, solely out of loyalty to Islam.

They [lover boys] had a lot more trouble with the daughters of immigrants, ‘because those families have respect for each other.’ In their view, this was not the case with Dutch girls: ‘Dutch girls really are the easiest. (…) Nowadays, there are girls of thirteen or fourteen years old who have already lost their virginity. They go to clubs and discos and stay away from home for a whole weekend. They want to go out, they want new clothes, but they don’t have the money. When a loverboy comes along and the girl spots him and he seems like a nice boy, things happen… Meeting a loverboy is like hitting the jackpot, you know what I mean?’ (Van San and Bovenkerk, 2013)

The lover boy, an adaptation to female mate scarcity?

Keep in mind that Muslims are not the only group to be overrepresented in this social niche. Among the lover boys interviewed by Van San and Bovenkerk (2013), half were Muslims (Moroccans, Turks) and half were from the Dutch West Indies. In the British OCCE study on child sexual exploitation in gangs and groups, around 24% of the suspects were neither white nor Asian, being probably blacks of Caribbean or African origin (Cockbain, 2013).

Thus, in addition to the difference of religion, and the resulting moral boundary between victim and victimizer, there seems to be another factor in the genesis of lover boys. This factor is nonreligious and would apply not only to the Muslim world but also to sub-Saharan Africa and its diaspora. In both culture areas, many young men are inevitably shut out of the marriage market because of excess female mortality and high polygyny rates (5-10% in the Muslim world and 20-40% in sub-Saharan Africa) (D’Souza and Chen, 1980; Fuse and Crenshaw, 2006; Goody, 1973, pp. 175-190; Pebley and Mbugua, 1989). There may have therefore been selection for young men who can exploit sexual opportunities, if and when they arise, via specific personality traits.

Alvergne et al. (2009, 2010a, 2010b) explored the relationship between male personality and sexual competition in the high-polygyny environment of Senegal. There was no correlation among Senegalese men between mating success and most personality traits, i.e., neuroticism, openness, and agreeableness. There was a strong correlation, however, with extraversion, defined as “pro-social behavior which reflects sociability, assertiveness, activity, dominance and positive emotions.” Men with above-medium extraversion were 40% more likely to have more than one wife than those with below-medium extraversion, after controlling for age. Furthermore, this personality trait correlated with higher testosterone levels. It thus seems to be part of the male toolkit for mating success in a high-polygyny environment.

From antiracism to anti-Islamism

It’s one thing to look for answers. In this, anthropology can offer some insights. It’s quite another to translate the explanation into applicable solutions. To go from one to the other may involve surmounting mental and political obstacles.

First, most Britons have been living in denial. Few wish to believe, at least openly, that organized gangs are preying on school-age girls. Fewer wish to believe that the gangs are overwhelmingly non-white and largely Muslim. And even fewer wish to believe the extent of the problem: perhaps one in ten of Rotherham’s white families, if not more. It all sounds like vicious propaganda that only ugly hate-filled people could believe.

Yet it’s true. So what comes next? Many disillusioned antiracists will likely end up seeing Islam, and not racism, as the problem. The solution will therefore be to secularize Muslim culture and replace it with an assimilated, Westernized version, like modern Christianity.

Politically, anti-Islamism is attractive. It has the merit of framing the problem in ideological and not racial terms. It is also likely to win over much of the political elite, particularly those who have backed previous military interventions in the Muslim world and would like to see more.

But will it work? Let’s assume anti-Islamists are not sidetracked into cheerleading a new round of foreign interventions “to get to the root of the problem.” Let’s also assume the focus is on assimilating Muslims living in Britain. Unfortunately, not only will this approach fail to solve the problem, it will actually make things worse.

In a Western context, assimilation does not mean giving up the restraints of one culture and taking on those of another. It means the first but not the second. Immigrants leave an environment where behavior is restrained mainly by external controls (shaming, family discipline, community surveillance) and they enter one where behavior is restrained mainly by internal controls (guilt, empathy). To the extent that assimilation happens, external social controls will weaken and may even disappear, but they will not be replaced by internal mental controls. There is no known way to give people a greater capacity for guilt and empathy than what they already have. No such psychotherapy exists. This is true even if we assume that population differences in these two traits are due solely to cultural conditioning, and not to inborn tendencies.

Assimilation is already making things worse by dissolving traditional restraints on behavior and leaving nothing in their place. Keep in mind that grooming is largely absent from the 1st generation of Britain’s Pakistani community. It’s much more present among young men of the 2nd and 3rd generations. They are very much into contemporary Western culture and are freely borrowing those elements that appeal to them the most:

Taj refers to ‘. . . the growing popularity of the “gangsta” fashion affected by local youths as they adopt the clothing and elements of the attitudes of disenchanted urban American youth gangs’ (1996, p.4). Khan describes ‘This new youth Pakistani “street culture” [as] male dominated and highly macho’ (1997, p.18), linking drug dependency among young Pakistani men with their involvement in violent crime, including prostitution. (Macey, 1999)

Accusations of “racism” likewise reflect an insider’s view of Western society and its weak points:

When I asked about racial harassment by the police, the women reacted with amusement. One of them said: ‘Well, they would, wouldn’t they? After all, they know it’s these lads who’re doing the dealing’. Another stated that ‘the lads’ had planned to accuse the police of racism because they had found this an effective weapon against authority in the past. In sum, while it seems unlikely that the Bradford police force contains no racists in its ranks, to ‘explain’ Pakistani male violence solely, or even mainly, as a reaction to police racism might well be over-simplified. (Macey, 1999)

The result is an unstable hybrid culture that is as foreign to 1st generation immigrants as it is to native Britons:

These young men have constructed an ethnic and religious identity which goes beyond hybridity in containing a high level of contradiction — a contradiction which is highly functional in its facilitation of dual standards, hypocrisy and legitimation, which are used as resources to maintain power over women. These aspects of male behaviour and their control function are clearly recognized, and resented, by young Pakistani women. One example quoted to me is the men’s involvement in ‘discos, drink, drugs and white women’, while simultaneously putting pressure (to the point of harassment and threatened violence) on Pakistani women to stay at home and behave as ‘good’ Muslim women. (Macey,1999)

Conclusion

Yes, the whole issue is a messy ball of wax. The worst part is the reluctance not just to discuss it but even to think it through, the result being that the proposed solutions have only a vague connection to the actual problem, which is neither “racism” nor “Islamism.”

What then is the problem? It’s the mass migration of certain communities from an environment where behavior is subject to certain checks and balances to one where these are virtually absent.

Why do you think Pakistani parents want their daughters to wear headscarves or at least dress modestly? Are they being slaves to hidebound custom? Or is it because they come from a society where many single men are, in fact, sexual predators?

And that’s just one aspect of a much larger problem. Humans have adapted to local circumstances in many different ways, and these adaptations involve mental traits with moderate to high heritability. Things like time orientation, monotony avoidance, anger threshold, strength and nature of the sexual bond, and so forth. Such differences keep us from becoming interchangeable units in a global community. Each human and each community is a product of adaptations to specific circumstances, and what works in one set of circumstances may not work so well in another.

References

Alvergne, A., M. Jokela, C. Faurie, and V. Lummaa. (2010a). Personality and testosterone in men from a high-fertility population,Personality and Individual Differences, 49, 840-844.
http://www.huli.group.shef.ac.uk/alvergne2010persinddiff.pdf

Alvergne, A., M. Jokela, and V. Lummaa. (2010b). Personality and reproductive success in a high-fertility human population, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 107, 11745-11750.
http://huli.group.shef.ac.uk/alvergne_PNAS.pdf

Alvergne, A., C. Faurie, and M. Raymond. (2009). Variation in testosterone levels and male reproductive effort: Insight from a polygynous human population, Hormones and Behavior, 56, 491-497.
http://evolutionhumaine.fr/michel/publis/pdf/alvergne_2009_hormones_behavior.pdf

Benedict, R. (1946 [2005]). The Chrysanthemum and the Sword. Patterns of Japanese Culture, First Mariner Books.

Chakrabarti, B. and S. Baron-Cohen. (2013). Understanding the genetics of empathy and the autistic spectrum, in S. Baron-Cohen, H. Tager-Flusberg, M. Lombardo. (eds). Understanding Other Minds: Perspectives from Developmental Social Neuroscience, Oxford: Oxford University Press.
http://books.google.ca/books?hl=fr&lr=&id=eTdLAAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA326&ots=fHpygaxaMQ&sig=_sJsVgdoe0hc-fFbzaW3GMEslZU#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cockbain, E. (2013). Grooming and the ‘Asian sex gang predator’: the construction of a racial crime threat, Race & Class, 54, 22-32.
http://rac.sagepub.com/content/54/4/22.short

Davis, M.H., C. Luce, and S.J. Kraus. (1994).The heritability of characteristics associated with dispositional empathy, Journal of Personality, 62, 369-391.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-6494.1994.tb00302.x/abstract

D’Souza, S. and L.C. Chen. (1980). Sex differentials in mortality in rural Bangladesh, Population and Development Review, 6, 257-270.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1972730?uid=3739448&uid=2&uid=3737720&uid=4&sid=21104683180073

Fuse K. and E.M. Crenshaw. (2006). Gender imbalance in infant mortality: a cross-national study of social structure and female infanticide, Social Science and Medicine, 62, 360-374.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953605002881

Goody, J. (1973). The Character of Kinship, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

Jay, A. (2014). Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Exploitation in Rotherham 1997-2013
http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

Jadhav, S. (1996). The cultural origins of Western depression,International Journal of Social Psychiatry, 42, 269-286.
http://isp.sagepub.com/content/42/4/269.short

Macey, M. (1999). Class, gender and religious influences on changing patterns of Pakistani Muslim male violence in Bradford, Ethnic and Racial Studies, 22, 5, 845-866
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/014198799329288#.VBOnH-kg_cs

Mandelbaum, D.G. (1993). Women’s Seclusion and Men’s Honor: Sex Roles in North India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, University of Arizona Press.

O’Connor, L.E., J.W. Berry, T. Lewis, K. Mulherin, and P.S. Crisostomo. (2007). Empathy and depression: the moral system in overdrive, in: T.F.D. Farrow and P.W.R. Woodruff (eds). Empathy in Mental Illness, (pp. 49-75). Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
http://www.eparg.org/publications/empathy-chapter-web.pdf

Pebley, A. R., and W. Mbugua. (1989). Polygyny and Fertility in Sub-Saharan Africa. In R. J. Lesthaeghe (ed.), Reproduction and Social Organization in Sub-Saharan Africa, Berkeley: University of California Press, pp. 338-364.
http://www.popline.org/node/359257

Van San, M. and F. Bovenkerk. (2013). Secret seducers. True tale of pimps in the red light district of Amsterdam, Crime, Law and Social Change, 60, 67-80.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10611-013-9436-z

(Republished from Evo and Proud by permission of author or representative)
 
Hide 107 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. So what would be the solution for Britain’s grooming gangs? The only one I can think of would be harsh collective punishment against the abusers’ communities, motivating them to restrain their members from committing such crimes in future. And that of course won’t happen.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @P
    , @Shawn
  2. @German_reader

    Another solution would be sending back those communities to where they belong: to Pakistan (and Afghanistan etc.). This would still not solve the problem of the Gypsies, though. Hungary’s population is already over 5% Gypsy and growing, and most Hungarians are extremely happy when they hear news stories of Gypsies moving to England. How to solve this problem in Hungary?

    We might also try to reduce the size of such communities by taxing them according to the number of children. If their fertility rates drop below 1.5 we might give them huge tax breaks, if they drop below 1.0, we might give them extra luxuries. (In the UK I would maybe confiscate the ill-gotten wealth of Tony Blair to pay for a portion of it. He bears some personal responsibility for this problem, even if it started before him and would be huge even without him. I would also force him to move to places inhabited by such communities. I would also create the thought-crime of “blairism”, which would mean that a police officer noticing that these communities behaved badly towards him would be accused of “blairism”. This would mean that police officers afraid of being called a blairist would just pretend not to notice the bad behavior of these communities towards Mr. Blair.)

    • Replies: @rod1963
  3. “Another solution would be sending back those communities to where they belong”

    That might be a solution but it won’t happen either. Seems to me Britain’s leftie establishment will do anything to cover up the problem with Pakistani grooming gangs. They can’t totally deny it now, but read the Guardian, they’re trying to spin it as classim and sexism being the main problems. Some Nigerian-born social activist in the Guardian even had the audacity to claim it was all due to the “racism” of white policemen (see, they consider white girls who have sexual relationships with Asian men as impure, “race-mixing” sluts and don’t care about their abuse – so once again it’s evil, racist white men who are the problem!).
    I like your ideas about Tony Blair though.

  4. Peter Frost wrote, “Or is it because they come from a society where many single men are, in fact, sexual predators?”
    It’s not only the single men. I recall reading in British newspapers some of the groomers/rapists are married and have children.

    I’m amazed no rapist has been killed. Are firearms that rare in Britain? Haven’t they heard of molotov cocktails thrown at a car?

  5. The West learned the wrong lessons when it ran away from scientific racism. It went from one extreme to the other. This is multiculturalism. This is an immigrant population which has kept its own alien culture and did not assimilate. It has held up its own culture and members of that culture while degrading and dehumanizing members of Western culture that it may ultimately replace. I think the multiculturalist thought that there would be differently dressed people, different cuisines, absurd beliefs, cheap labor, and everyone would maintain European social norms and morality. It doesn’t look like it worked out that way.

  6. rod1963 says:
    @reiner Tor

    Yes, sending them back is the proper thing to do with a people that are unfit to live in the West.

    The Gypsies can be easily dealt with by aggressive policing and harsh sentences and encouraging public hostility towards these criminal families(3 strikes sentencing is a key). About 30 years here in Southern California we had a Gypsie infestation, it was dealt with by intensive coverage of their scams and aggressive policing that put a lot of them behind bars. They left in a hurry.

    We can’t do that today because of the Marxists that run the state. But that sort of strategy works well.

    The sad fact is, there are groups of people that have no business living in the Western countries. The just don’t fit for a variety of reasons and need to be kept out because if we don’t these people will destroy the West.

  7. Anonym says:

    A solution:
    a) one way tickets back to country of origin
    b) if the country of origin won’t accept them, kick them out of air transport with parachutes
    c) if air transports start getting shot down, use an intermediate destination, like the sea for example.

  8. Numinous says:

    Humans have adapted to local circumstances in many different ways, and these adaptations involve mental traits with moderate to high heritability.

    Maybe, and maybe not. The jury is still out on this, and research keeps going on. Making such sweeping statements is not useful. And if this were 100% true, it’s really an argument for people migrating to places with similar weather, environment, and ecology, and avoid migrating to other places. So much of the US then ought to be out-of-bounds for white people. But that would be stupid and illogical, wouldn’t it? The truth is, whatever selection pressures happened long ago, they have little use in modern times when human society now has the technological and emotional tools to deal with its surroundings. Any human can reside in any habitable part of the planet, so unproven assertions about evolution are not god justifications to prevent people migrations.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @viking
  9. Numinous says:

    There is no known way to give people a greater capacity for guilt and empathy than what they already have.

    You are probably correct, but this only applies to older children and adults, doesn’t it? Are you saying that babies or toddlers raised in different cultures from the ones they were born in do not possess capacities for guilt or empathy (assuming they were born in shame cultures)?

    Haven’t people from European shame cultures (southern Italy and Greece for example) properly assimilated into American culture? Haven’t educated immigrants, and especially their children, from Asian countries assimilated well into American culture? The lack of anti-social behavior among these groups indicate that they have similar capacities for guilt and empathy that pedigreed WASPs do.

    Also, as far as I know, the guilt-shame dichotomy was just a useful rule-of-the-thumb classification for a range of cultures. It was never meant to suggest that people raised in shame cultures cannot feel guilt. In fact, people in the Middle East and South Asia demonstrably feel guilt in various contexts; it’s just that those contexts may not make sense to modern Westerners. In this very article, you talk about Moroccan pimps avoiding Moroccan girls. But with so much opportunity to “corrupt” Moroccan girls in an anonymous fashion, what stops the pimps from doing so? Probably a good measure of guilt. another example: what kept the rigid caste system going for millenia in South Asia? Feelings of guilt and disgust at ritual pollution that was inculcated into people when they were kids.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    , @Mike
  10. eah says:

    If you are searching or “answers” about why what happened in Rotherham happened, then you are probably the only one.

  11. P says:
    @German_reader

    Imprisonment of offenders is a start.

  12. Rich says:

    I think another reason the Muslim pimps don’t go after Muslim girls, is that the girls father or brothers will probably come after them. I don’t know what happened to the English, maybe the best of them emigrated or died in their many wars, but they appear to no longer have a backbone.

    • Replies: @rb
    , @fnn
  13. TomB says:

    The author wrote:

    Yes, the whole issue is a messy ball of wax.

    Not really.

    Not unless you think you can somehow outsmart the hundreds of years of wisdom embodied in the human experience of people not only of like aesthetics but also of like values desiring to live together by compiling and then arranging a bunch of supposed anthropological and sociological tenets on top of one another to come to some theory trumping that wisdom.

    And so far all we’ve seen by the wax-makers is the idea that you can introduce people from a radically different culture into another without them making a commitment to assimilate or at least abide by the basic rules of that new culture—whether through desire or need—and things will be hunky-dory.

    Really illustrates the supreme insanity of any amnesties for illegal entrants: *By definition* they’ve already demonstrated an unwillingness to abide by the rules of the society they jumped on the back of.

    Rather amazing that for all their supposed sophistication that so many academics of the day seem to overlook the validity of the idea that some things are the way they are because of hard-won experience. Instead the prevailing social science idea seems to be that the way things are or have been arises purely by chance, or only via someone’s artificial imposition.

    I suppose lots can be traced back to the influence of Boaz, with his student Mead’s incredibly shallow if not consciously deceptive book on Samoa perfectly illustrating the idea that in a state of nature and without that artificial imposition humans just naturally brim over with milk and honey and brotherly love for one another. (Or as one critic put it, the “Blue Lagoon” theory of human nature.)

    Fittingly though given the scope of anthropological and sociological work—all humanity—their blunders have been and will continue to be profound.

  14. pyrrhus says:
    @Numinous

    It has largely been determined in genetic studies that empathy towards strangers is strictly a Northwestern european genetic trait and that such things cannot be taught. And the evidence in the “field” pretty much confirms it.

  15. peterike says:

    The solution is for the white men of the community to drag the Pakistani men into the streets and hang them, burn their houses and drive the rest physically out of the community. Which is precisely what would have happened only 50 years ago in England.

    It is quite amazing how a few decades of Cultural Marxist conditioning can make an entire race so demoralized that they are literally suicidal.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  16. Mike says:
    @Numinous

    If “Jersey Shore” behavior is your idea of assimilation, then yes they have assimilated.

  17. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This article raises one more side of the problem.

    The obvious side of the problem is the multi-culti fiasco of “Asians” having, shall we say, somehow conquered the pimping business.

    The less obvious side is that of white girls being perfect victims by virtue of certain aspects of modern Western culture. Namely: “Nowadays, there are girls of thirteen or fourteen years old who have already lost their virginity. They go to clubs and discos and stay away from home for a whole weekend. They want to go out, they want new clothes, but they don’t have the money. When a loverboy comes along and the girl spots him and he seems like a nice boy, things happen… Meeting a loverboy is like hitting the jackpot, you know what I mean?’”

    When articles say “grooming,” this, unless I am missing something, implies a certain degree of complicity on the part of the girls. Now, it’s a bad thing to blame victims for their misfortune; so let’s just blame the sexual revolution, loose morals, etc etc. One can be against the notion of 13 year old girls living la dolce vita without being that worst of all things in modern culture, a prude. You get the point, I’m sure.

    Maybe someone should try to explain to young Western women that if they want: 1) safe enjoyable sex from an early age; 2) the attentions of exotic, handsome, and tough-looking older men; 3) no-strings-attached presents and gifts from such men — well, then these young women are liable to get into trouble.

    • Replies: @Michelle
  18. Anonym says:

    I don’t know what happened to the English, maybe the best of them emigrated or died in their many wars, but they appear to no longer have a backbone.

    This is very easy to say. Remember though, the populace is disarmed, though some criminals will have weapons. Obtaining weapons would require having criminal acquaintances. Know also that several fathers did attempt to get their children back, and were arrested for doing so. No policeman was going to have to deal for accusations of racism for performing that arrest. Whereas breaking up some young teenager from her South Asian boyfriend could be seen as racist. Also look at what happened to Nick Griffin for raising this issue. Also remember that it is one, lone parent against a gang, that is probably armed.

    The whole situation stinks, and that this sort of treason could be perpetrated against the British population without any proper recourse… the mind boggles. In a healthy society, you wouldn’t even have such immigration policy. But if you did organize some sort of local militia type activity to sort this sort of thing out, it would be ruthlessly crushed. So the only thing that can really happen is the occasional low-probability Breivik event or in the long-term, the public wakes up, public attitudes really turn against PC and eventually the mobs are either let loose or the hierarchy solves the problem.

    • Replies: @Flashman
  19. rb says:
    @Rich

    Muslim pumps/gangs do go after Muslim girls and girls from other South East Asian communities.

    Look up – Unheard Voices by the Asian Women’s Network.

  20. Rb: White girls, especially blonde ones, bring the highest prices in the sex trafficking trade; everyone knows that. As they did in the slave markets of North Africa centuries ago. That is why sex trafficking came to be known as “white slavery.”

  21. Stogumber says:

    Unconvincing analysis.

    Guilt (being punished) is different from shame (being despised). Both can be mere external or internalized. Both can be integrated in an ethnocentric or in an universalist value system.

    All that is rather unimportant here. The important difference between Pakistan and England is the change of roles and patterns for men resp. women. That’s a modern development. Five decades ago you would have expected from an English working-class girl to dress modestly and you would not have expected from an English working-class boy to gentlemanly ignore the girl’s immodesty. And as that all is a modern development it’s quite useless to look for differences in long-time demographic stats and to speculate about their impact on genetical differences.

    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
  22. Sean says:
    @Numinous

    To assert that humans have not adapted to local circumstances in many different ways with adaptations that involve mental traits with moderate to high heritability, is a very sweeping statement; but it is the received wisdom among the dominant social class, and you can say it without feeling guilty.

    • Replies: @Numinous
  23. Stogumber says:

    And by the way, there’s no connexion between internalized guilt and empathy. In fact, internalized guilt (what Freud would have called a strong Uber-Ich) can block empathy.

    The followers of Benedict seem to make a quite wide-spread mistake: a typology which collects all “good” traits on one side and all “bad” traits on the other.

  24. Numinous says:
    @Sean

    I was casting doubt on a sweeping statement made by Mr. Frost, and not making one myself as you seem to imply. Doubtless humans have adapted to local circumstances; otherwise they would have died out or moved to greener pastures. Some of those adaptations may be reflected in the genetic code, but some of those are just passed on as culture from one generation to the next. And humans are a lot more malleable than you seem to allow for, especially young ones.

  25. Michelle says:
    @Anonymous

    Absolutely true! Much of this behavior is biological. Women will imprint onto manly, sometimes violent, controlling, strong, high testosterone men. It’s very similar to stallions taking mares by force. Or women consorting with invading armies. Stockholm Syndrome a la Patty Hearst and Quanah Parker’s mother, Cynthia. They can kill your entire family and you will still want to have sex with them. There will always be women who are attracted to men who are in power. If your own men have been usurped, you will be drawn to the usurpers.

    Clearly, if you read the UK Daily Mail regularly you can see that it is those men of Anglo British descent who are taking an a$$ whooping. Or at least bending over to grab their ankles.

    British men have been emasculated. Since the Brits declined to re-elect Churchill, the Anglo male masculinity quotient has declined greatly. Preadolescent and adolescent females, who, despite our society’s desperate attempts to prove otherwise, are capable of great sexual desire and attraction toward males, and especially those with absent fathers, will be drawn to what we call “bad boys”.

    Of course leftist and rightist alpha males such as Russell Brand and Clint Eastwood have an interest in maintaining the new status quo. If girls and women went back to keeping their legs closed, and fathers stuck around to protect their daughters again, all men would have to work harder to get sex. Look at Elizabeth Taylor, men used to be willing to marry her to get her. My grandmother had 4 kids and she told me that her second husband married her because he was grateful to get sex and was willing to support all her kids to get it. Withholding sex is a form of power that Western women have given up. But with the advent of universal porn, I doubt we can ever get that cat back in the bag.

    • Replies: @Flashman
    , @Georgie
  26. Sean says:

    If humans have not adapted to local circumstances in many different ways with adaptations that involve mental traits with moderate to high heritability, then any problems that immigrants have must be due to the culture of a host society, and any problems fitting into the society that immigrants encounter due to the host societies being racist. And so accepting that humans have not adapted to local circumstances in many different ways with adaptations that involve mental traits with moderate to high heritability, means accepting that the host society will always be the accused and the immigrants the victims.

    The only way to refute the accusation is to say that immigrants have different hereditary propensities, but if you do that you are in effect saying the immigrants are not interchangeable with the host population, which is racism. So there is no way out. Even intellectuals who try to speak up for the white working class (30% of the host population) can’t get get round the problem. The victims are the kind of people who might vote for the BNP, and the received wisdom is to get rid of them, by encouraging mixing with the immigrants.

  27. fnn says:
    @Rich

    I think it’s because working class English whites know that they live under under what amounts to a totalitarian anti-white (“cultural marxist”) regime. Leave aside the well-known speech prosecutions, instead recall that, during the 2011 London riots, large numbers of police were rushed away from the riot zone to suppress a crowd of whites who had gathered together to organize defense against any advancing rioters. No such efforts were directed against Sikhs or Hindus or whatever who had done the same.

    • Replies: @Harry Flashman
  28. “Each human and each community is a product of adaptations to specific circumstances, and what works in one set of circumstances may not work so well in another.”
    What means “work well”?
    I see it that way: what works really well around the globe is being of subsaharan ancestry, especially westafrican. Those people raise their share of population in many countries, like in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, USA, even China. Everywhere where they live westafrican men are most successful in interracial dating/marriage. Also they are most successful when it comes to violence, I do not know one country where more peoplee with subsaharan african ancestry get killed by people with european or asian ancestry than the other way round.
    And being muslim obviously also world quite well, not as well as with people with subsaharan african ancestry but still well. At least muslims are able to raise their share of the population in UK, and also it feels certainly better to be the muslim lover boy than being the white girl working for him.

  29. Shawn says:
    @German_reader

    The solution is to return them all to their home countries.

  30. Gill says:

    How about loving fathers and mothers that stay in the daughters lives?

    Sorry – that was dumb.

  31. Harold says:
    @Sean

    Why do you identify the way out and then claim there is no way out?

  32. Peter Frost says: • Website

    “So what would be the solution for Britain’s grooming gangs?”

    German reader,

    For starters, they could be given the punishment they would get in their culture of origin:

    ‘Punishment of causing, encouraging or abetting prostitution of a girl under sixteen (16)’, Section 7 of the ” Pakistan Suppression of Prostitution Ordinance, 1961 ”

    “If any person having custody, charge or care of any girl under the age of sixteen (16) years causes or encourages or abets the seduction or prostitution of that girl, he shall be published with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to three years, and with a fine which may extend to one thousand rupees and if the person convicted is a male, shall also be liable to whipping. ”

    “This is an immigrant population which has kept its own alien culture and did not assimilate.”

    Johny,

    On the contrary, they have assimilated to a great degree. Maybe they aren’t assimilating as you would like them to assimilate, but the degree of cultural change within Britain’s Pakistani community has been considerable.

    Multiculturalism isn’t to blame. The problem is elsewhere.

    “Maybe, and maybe not. The jury is still out on this”

    Numinous,

    The verdict has been in for some time:

    “… for almost any individual difference one wants to assess in the psychological realm, the percentage of within-population variance that can be attributed to underlying, within-population, genetic variance is about 40 percent, plus or minus 20 percent. (The mass of studies which has accrued over a long period suggests that heritability for cognitive abilities is probably on the high end of that range, heritability for attitudes is probably on the low end, and heritability for personality is about in the middle …”

    Mealey, L. 2001. Kinship: The Ties that Bind (Disciplines). In: Harmon R. Holcomb III, ed., Conceptual Challenges in Evolutionary Psychology: Innovative Research Strategies. Kluwer Academic Publishers, p. 24.

    “Are you saying that babies or toddlers raised in different cultures from the ones they were born in do not possess capacities for guilt or empathy (assuming they were born in shame cultures)?”

    Numinous,

    Affective empathy has high heritability (68%). This is where you involuntarily experience another person’s feelings, whether negative or positive. And if you’re unable to help that person, you will unconsciously punish yourself. You will progressively experience anguish, depression and, ultimately, suicidal ideation.

    This kind of response is not universal and is not something you can learn. At most, you can learn to obey the golden rule as a moral duty. But you will not experience true affective empathy.

    “It was never meant to suggest that people raised in shame cultures cannot feel guilt.”

    Agreed. We are looking at a clinal variation that reaches its highest incidences in northwest Europeans and progressively declines as one goes south and east.

    Keep in mind that “empathy” has three components. Pro-social behavior, i.e., hospitality and willingness to help people out, seems to be universal among humans. Cognitive empathy, i.e., the ability to simulate how another person thinks and feels, is less universal and shows more variability. Many people have trouble seeing things from another person’s perspective. Affective empathy, i.e., the fact of involuntarily experiencing another person’s feelings is much less universal, and likewise variable from one person to another.

    “with so much opportunity to “corrupt” Moroccan girls in an anonymous fashion, what stops the pimps from doing so”

    Huh? Have you ever tried to go out with a Moroccan girl? Even if she’s Westernized, the rest of her family will want to know what’s going on. And you will probably have to convert at some point.

    “If you are searching for “answers” about why what happened in Rotherham happened, then you are probably the only one.”

    Eah,

    Perhaps. But feigned ignorance is no better than the real thing. This is part of the problem.

    Jimbo,

    “When articles say “grooming,” this, unless I am missing something, implies a certain degree of complicity on the part of the girls.”

    I don’t subscribe to the “just desserts” reaction. Groomers seem to target girls who (a) seem naïve or (b) are very young (i.e., 12 to 13 years of age). I don’t know about you but I was pretty naïve at 12 years of age. This is one of the advantages of living in a high-trust society. People can learn the hard lessons of life without being killed or crippled for life.

    Another thing. When the parents complained to the police, they were accused of racism and told to shut up.

    “Guilt (being punished) is different from shame (being despised”

    Stogumber,

    I’m talking about guilt in a psychological and not legal sense, i.e., feelings of guilt, not the fact of being found guilty.

    “Five decades ago you would have expected from an English working-class girl to dress modestly”

    Five decades ago? In 1964? I’m sorry but you’re wrong.

    Let’s say a century ago. Sure, it was harder to go out with a single girl without getting approval from her parents. But it was easy for a single woman to walk around alone, and modest dress did not mean wearing a headscarf or a burqa.

    “internalized guilt (what Freud would have called a strong Uber-Ich) can block empathy.”

    Guilt and affective empathy overlap. In fact, some authors use the term “empathic guilt” to stress this connection. In both cases, the mind simulates the pain that another person is experiencing. As for Freud, he wrote:

    “The sense of guilt, the harshness of the super-ego, is thus the same things as the severity of the conscience. It is the perception which the ego has of being watched over in this way, the assessment of the tension between its own strivings and the demands of the super-ego.”

    Freud, S. (1962[1930]). Civilization and Its Discontents, New York: W.W. Norton, p. 83

  33. “On the contrary, they have assimilated to a great degree.”

    If the Muslims in the UK have assimilated to a “great degree,” I’d like to know what not assimilating is. Geez! They want their own laws, they patrol their streets to keep “lewdly” dressed Western women out, they don’t order pints at the pub, they won’t inter-marry unless the spouse changes religion, they don’t date, they have to have their meat slaughtered a certain way, and most think that 7/7 was cooked up by the government.

    Does the person who wrote the above understand “assimilate.” Assimilate is what the Japanese, Chinese, Jews, Poles, Italians and Irish did when they came to America. Some of these groups more quickly that others, granted, but they do, generally, date everybody freely, marry everybody freely, don’t have “their” neighborhoods (anymore, generally), they don’t require special aspects for their food (not counting the few Jews who are still kosher) and etc etc etc etc etc.

  34. One more point on how much Islam has “assimilated” in the UK:

    “Remarkably, zero percent — yes, zero percent — of British Muslims believe homosexuality is morally acceptable.” Shadi Hamid citing the May 7, 2009 Guardian article: Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll

  35. anon • Disclaimer says:

    I think another reason the Muslim pimps don’t go after Muslim girls, is that the girls father or brothers will probably come after them. I don’t know what happened to the English, maybe the best of them emigrated or died in their many wars, but they appear to no longer have a backbone.

    If an enraged Muslim father goes after a Muslim pimp, the British police will do their best to look the other way or, failing that, to let the father off with a slap on the wrist. An enraged White father who goes after a Muslim pimp can expect to be vilified by the media, aggressively prosecuted by the British “justice” system, subjected to involuntary psychiatric “treatment,” have their children and property taken away, and deliberately imprisoned alongside violent Islamist radicals.

    Nor is this disparity limited to sexual abuse. Consider, for example, what happened during the riots which rocked Britain during August 2011. When Asian communities formed self-defense groups
    that violently expelled would-be rioters and looters from their neighborhoods, their efforts and “community cohesion” received fulsome praise from the British government and media. When working-class White communities (or even individual working-class Whites) engaged in the slightest attempt to protect their communities, property, or personal safety, British elites denounced them as racist vigilantes and sent in heavily-armed police units with orders to subdue the White residents by any necessary means. The same police officers who hesitated to use even the slightest force against Black rioters had no problems using overwhelming force to subdue White shopkeepers trying to protect their businesses or White pedestrians fighting off mobs intent on literally stripping them naked in the streets.

    The inaction of working-class Whites stems not from indifference or even a fear of the Muslims (or Blacks) themselves; it stems from a fear that the UK’s upper-class liberal and Jewish elites will send swaggering bully-boys in blue uniforms to ruin their lives and take them to jail.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  36. A few points.

    1. This must end in massacre. Probably a gendercide of either white males or brown males.
    2. This is biologically based. White female flesh is almost universally lusted after in our species. Let’s say that paler flesh tones at least.
    3. Once the men of either racial group start the massacres nothing will stop it.

  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    The consciousness of Jewish elites in the UK is very dimly understood by poor whites. Middleclass whites are generally either philosemitic or displace anti semitism into Anti Zionism. I can’t speak for the upper class. They are more or less in business with Jews at that level.

  38. @fnn

    Orwell warned us.

    Johnny Foreigner knows that working class whites are prey.

  39. @Sean

    Ergo it’s genocide. Specifically of the working class English.

    It would not be the first Harrowing.

  40. Flashman says:
    @Michelle

    You are confusing the mating game with something else.

    Working class whites would massacre pakistani men if the British government turned a blind eye for a week.

    This is coming from central government. It’s a legal restraint on a pogrom of blacks and browns in the UK.

  41. Flashman says:
    @Anonym

    I reckon a Breikvik sort of event is highly likely at this point.

    The authorities should have prosecuted this stuff before the recession in 2008. This is probably going to lead to a massacre. The Authorities sat on this for far too long.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  42. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike

    I predict a gendercide too.

    Every male Pakistani killed and the women divided up as spoils or repatriated. Same medicine for the Muslims from Nigeria and Somalia.

  43. Ron Unz says:
    @Flashman

    It’s not a good idea to clutter up a discussion-thread with a long list of very short comments basically saying the same thing. It’s also not good form to keep changing around your name or playing silly games with your IP address.

    • Replies: @Harry Flashman
  44. @Ron Unz

    The Anonymous populated itself there.

    Harry Flashman had to be re-entered each time. Very laborious.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  45. Numinous says:
    @Sean

    If humans have not adapted to local circumstances in many different ways with adaptations that involve mental traits with moderate to high heritability, then any problems that immigrants have must be due to the culture of a host society, and any problems fitting into the society that immigrants encounter due to the host societies being racist.

    The only way to refute the accusation is to say that immigrants have different hereditary propensities, but if you do that you are in effect saying the immigrants are not interchangeable with the host population, which is racism.

    Not at all. The culture the immigrants come from could exhibit serious pathologies. If immigrants come as individuals (or in nuclear families), they will try (or be forced) to assimilate into the host culture. If much larger groups immigrate en masse, they could end up in cultural ghettos if multiculturalism is the norm in the host society. Such immigrants will remain in their silos and not absorb the values of their new countries. So any bad behavior they exhibit cannot be blamed on racism. But neither can it be blamed on defective genes, not without ignoring various other factors.

  46. Ron Unz says:
    @Harry Flashman

    If you just select “Remember My Information,” your handle and other info will be saved as a cookie.

    Anyway, you have too many very short comments that say the same sort of thing cluttering up the thread. As I’ve noted in the commenting guidelines, you should combine them into one or two longer, much more substantive ones if you want to see them approved.

  47. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The haters of the White Christian West, over the course of decades, in order to make Europe increasingly non-European, have promoted the importation of a resentful, smoldering, culturally incompatible underclass, while seizing every opportunity to throw gasoline on the flames of racial discord. Why wouldn’t the establishment react with a yawn when 1400 white girls are forced into prostitution? (Think of the victims as “comfort girls” for the shock troops of the invading army.) They don’t regard this as the monstrous calamity that it is, they regard it as progress.

    The truth is, these third world enclaves are doing exactly what the social engineers brought them here to do.

  48. “There may have therefore been selection for young men who can exploit sexual opportunities, if and when they arise, via specific personality traits.”

    What a politically correct way to say “rapists.” Ironic that semantic arguments are so frowned upon, when an entire culture is in decline because it is losing a semantics war.

    I believe it is time to openly declare myself a “cultural supremacist.”

  49. Luke Lea says:

    This is one of Frost’s best posts yet. The way he can find scholarly research articles to bolster his arguments — I had no idea such articles even existed — is truly impressive. Hard to imagine that his analysis would not be highly influential if it were more widely known. Do him (and our society) a favor by linking to this post when you comment on articles on related subjects in the mainstream press. “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”

  50. Ghosti says:

    It is not too surprising that the Pakistanis still view their native British neighbors as alien. It is not surprising that they have no qualms victimizing attractive yet alien young women given cultural norms in Pakistan that despite one generation of moderate assimilation still prevail. It is a real head scratcher that other white working class people in the community don’t rise up together. The police are mostly white working class from this community. If they collectively stood up to the PC bullies, this would have stopped.

    So why do Western Europeans have such low abysiah, as Ibn Khaldun would say? I don’t think the Jews or Cultural Marxism really explain the collective lack of community thinking.

    • Replies: @Harry Flashman
  51. Georgie says:
    @Michelle

    What a load of BS – I always come across these sorts of pseudo-psychoanalytic diatribes from yanks, as though they have a window into the (‘emasculated’) British psyche. (Try coming to a football match and accost the natives as a bunch of pussies – you’ll be slapped black and blue before you could scream “I’m an American!” – this is nothing to do with emasculation).

    I don’t know what you people expect? Militias? Paramilitaries? Get a grip. This isn’t the wild west. This particular tragedy was without recourse: it’s Pakistani gangs street grooming vulnerable white girls. These gangs are organised and the institution that’s supposed to be policing them – the police force – was found to be inept.

  52. Sean says:

    “The culture the immigrants come from could exhibit serious pathologies.”

    In a new situation in a host country, an immigrant community’s particular average behaviour (stemming from interaction of genetic propensities and social environment) could be either adaptive or maladaptive. We can’t say something is a pathology just because we don’t like it.

    “Such immigrants will remain in their silos and not absorb the values of their new countries. So any bad behavior they exhibit cannot be blamed on racism. ”

    That argument has nothing to do with the case (though it is true in relation to intra immigrant community problems like genital mutilation and honour killings.) We are talking about the way the immigrants’ problems obeying the law of the land are attributed to racism by the indigenous host community.

    For instance:-
    IF you leave university and you are 'Bame' [black, asian and minority ethnic group], you are still more likely to be unemployed one year on," said Kerr, ascribing the problem to "that subtext of what you don’t know… I think it’s unconscious bias. Some employers are being really truthful about it already”

    Precarious work, protest masculinity and communal regulation: South Asian young men in Luton, UK”

    “This article presents an argument about the reactions of young South Asian men to their economic and social exclusion. In a labour market increasingly characterized by insecurity, where bottom end service employment often demands a feminized ‘service with a smile’ performance, young working class men from minority communities are often disadvantaged in their search for work. It has been argued that in these circumstances a version of protest masculinity and involvement in urban unrest are typical responses. This argument is explored in a racialized minority area of Luton, where right wing organizations attempt to provoke street-based reactions by young men. Instead, ‘radical privatism’, constructed through communal regulation, is a reaction to exceptional provocation, although young men’s involvement in low level street unrest is also common in more ‘normal’ times.”

    An example of unrest in Luton: a 13 year old girl was raped and her community had a mass protest outside the police station to stop them releasing a Muslim suspect. The release was stopped by the protest and a suspect was later charged. The protest was by Sikhs.

    As development economist Paul Collier notes in his excellent Exodus: How Migration is Changing Our World:-
    ‘However, while multicultural policies permit and encourage immigrant groups to preserve their cultural and social distinctiveness, policy towards the indigenous population is necessarily quite different. Well founded fears of the potential and reality of anti immigrant discrimination require government to strongly oppose the equivalent networks among the indigenous population. Prior to immigration the social networks that exist are, inevitably, exclusively indigenous. Antidiscrimination policy essentially forbids such networks: quite properly, they have to become inclusive. [...] It is easier to build social networks within groups—what Robert Putnam calls “bonding” social capital—than between them— “bridging” social capital. It is also easier to build social capital in small groups than in large. Hence the conjunction of multiculturalism and anti discrimination laws give rise to a paradox … by force of law indigenous social networks are required to convert from “bonding” social capital to “bridging” ‘

    There is no way to have a single culture and moral standard for both immigrants and the indigenous. The immigrants are judged by different standards, in consequence they act as a wedge on the indigenous communities. For instance the police in Rochdale and many other places have stopped enforcing the law against men having sex with 13 year old girls; the law was against what immigrant men were doing to the indigenous girls so the crimes are redefined as consensual relationships.

  53. @Ghosti

    The English more or less invented individualism. Atomic family structures and whatnot.

    I will try to keep this long. Britain is a high trust high cooperation society. You see this with the formation of new team sports, the island mentality of inviting in assimilable well behaved migrants and dissidents.

    Furthermore you have the progenitors of the American pioneer the settler and the explorer. These sorts of endeavors require suicidal levels of altruism.

    The Pakistani is a hive mind tribalist clansman. The English have a nasty habit of getting rick rolled by influx groups of tribal clans. The Scandinavians are even more trusting and docile.

    • Replies: @Georgie
  54. Georgie says:
    @Harry Flashman

    Complete and utter rubbish. You Americans don’t half talk some amount of rubbish – England is balkanised; there’s no ‘suicidal’ levels of altruism – polling data continuously shows that Britons, upwards of 70%, want immigration completely halt. I kid you not: you can literally draw a line on the map of northern towns, like Bradford, Leicester or Bolton, that clearly demarcates English areas and Asian areas.

    • Replies: @Harry Flashman
  55. If this behavior in the UK is caused by culture or ethnicity, then why isn’t it happening in the US? South Asians are considered to be a model minority in the US, regardless of their religion or region of origin.

    The stereotype is that they’re working in Silicon Valley, not gangbanging in the ghetto or molesting kids.

  56. Peter Frost says: • Website

    “If the Muslims in the UK have assimilated to a “great degree,” I’d like to know what not assimilating is.”

    Tom,

    We seem to disagree on the nature of Western culture in the 21st century. It’s clear that young Pakistani men are not assimilating to the traditional norms of British culture, but that culture, with its restraints on behavior, especially sexual behavior, has been in decline for some time. Today, assimilation means that immigrants lose their traditional restraints on behavior and, correspondingly, gain freedom to do as they like. Certain patterns of behavior are thus much more freely expressed because the cultural environment is freer.

    If the term “pattern of behavior” sounds too scholarly, let’s say a set of mental instructions that remains inactive when conditions do not permit and switches on when conditions do. The “lover boy” is, so to speak, a mental algorithm that aborts in its culture of origin the moment its real-world output becomes too noticeable. When people notice, they take action, and the set of instructions no longer has a male body to operate in. That body is now dead or in jail.

    “Every male Pakistani killed and the women divided up as spoils or repatriated”

    Peterike,

    This is one reason why I don’t consider myself a white nationalist. WNs are exhibitionists and fantasists.

    “So any bad behavior they exhibit cannot be blamed on racism. But neither can it be blamed on defective genes”

    Numinous,

    No one here is making that argument. Defective genes get eliminated by natural selection. If the genes are being favored by natural selection, they cannot be defective.

    “What a politically correct way to say “rapists.”

    Ozymandia,

    If I had to choose a single word, it would be “seducer.” The girls in question were seduced before being gradually brought under control and ultimately confined.

    Luke,

    Thanks! The pen is mightier than the sword.

    “So why do Western Europeans have such low abysiah, as Ibn Khaldun would say? I don’t think the Jews or Cultural Marxism really explain the collective lack of community thinking.”

    Ghosti,

    Western European societies have a longstanding tendency toward individualism, weak kinship ties, and deferral to perceived authority. Those characteristics have been both the secret of the West’s success and the cause of its undoing.

    Perceived authority is now in the hands of people who want to “deconstruct” European societies. And everybody is falling into line because it is the moral thing to do. The same mental structure that once led to the burning of witches has been mobilized to eliminate “racism.” For these modern witch burners, it is only when racism has been thoroughly destroyed that the world will become a decent place for all. Yes, it sounds incredibly stupid, but people can be very stupid.

    These voices of authority are folks like the Queen of England or the pastor at your local church. Or the editors of The Economist. They’re good people (for the most part), and we’re not going to get anywhere by pretending they’re evil conspirators.

    What can be done? Why not try speaking up? Why not talk openly with these people? Firmly but calmly. And don’t let yourself be cowed by the word “racism.” If necessary, admit to being a racist. But don’t let up. People will wake up only when the illusion of consensus has been shattered.

    Georgie,

    “polling data continuously shows that Britons, upwards of 70%, want immigration completely halt. I kid you not”

    I believe you … up to a point. Most people are unhappy with immigration. They feel like they are becoming strangers in their own land, but they will not say so in public. And even in private they will speak in guarded tones. Moreover, there is a growing proportion of people who have fully internalized the antiracist narrative, perhaps 25%. Those people are much more confident and much more overt in their beliefs.

    I have no problem saying what I believe, but I don’t think I’m typical. Most normal people want to be like others, and “others” means the people who dominate mainstream discourse.

  57. rec1man says:
    @Myra Esoteric

    The South Asians in UK doing this are Pakistani muslims. In the USA, the same Pakistani muslims drive cabs – The other South Asians in UK, such as Sikhs and Hindus dont do this. bcos, this is part of islam – Right Hand Possession rule – meaning Ok to rape kafir Infidel women. In UK, Hindu and Sikh girls are also victims of these muslim Pakistani. In Silicon valley, most are Hindus and Sikhs, not Muslims

  58. @Peter Frost

    Sorry, you can not change the definition of words and say that now “assimilation” doesn’t mean what it is still defined as in the dictionary — it, “assimilation,” instead means young Muslim men changing. Total Orwellian nonsense. (Because young Muslim men don’t assimilate, we’ll just change the definition of “assimilate” in order to say that they do assimilate.)

  59. Georgie says:
    @Peter Frost

    Simply isn’t true – all this talk of ‘weak kinship’ or ‘deference to perceived authority’ are just stabs in the dark at trying to postulate causality. You write as though this is a congenital trait – where’s your evidence?

    The fact of the matter is that it’s very hard, nigh impossible, for minority political parties to break through in the UK: first post the post, the electoral system in the UK, effectively rigs the election in favour of the two major parties. How can a party like UKIP, that won the European election with 30% of the vote, not have a single seat in Parliament? And yet that’s the state of affairs currently in the UK; the fact that UKIP can win an election, where only 10 years ago they hardly registered, completely makes redundant your point about ‘deference to authority’. You can’t make changes to the establishment if the system is completely intractable. 2/3 of the white population of London voted for ring wing parties (predominantly UKIP & also Conservative), whilst 2/3 of the ethnic population of London voted Labour. London is only 45% ethnic English now, a decrease from about 70% in the late 1990s. The demography is stacked against the population.

    (Incidentally, all your talk about intellectuals – journalists; economists – is irrelevant. The vast bulk of the population isn’t sitting waiting to receive instruction from the UK’s intellectual doyens; nobody, apart from other intellectual middle class types, gives a monkeys what they have to say.). If you’re talking about how people talk in private, that they discuss immigration in guarded tones, then the only thing you can go by are anecdotes – so tell me, where are you anecdotes derived from? Because believe me, as a man from a working class area and upbringing in west London, you couldn’t be more wrong.

  60. @Myra Esoteric

    Self-selection of immigrants. Pakistanis from different social classes immigrated to the UK and to the US. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the Pakistani immigrants in the US are usually middle class or upper class types, similarly to the Hindus who are usually from higher castes. (AFAIK Hindus in the UK are also way higher caste than the general population in India.) That is not true of Pakistanis in the UK, who tend to better correspond to the average of Pakistan.

    • Replies: @rec1man
  61. @Stogumber

    Guilt (being punished) is different from shame (being despised). Both can be mere external or internalized. Both can be integrated in an ethnocentric or in an universalist value system.

    Oh, my goodness, but you haven’t the faintest notion of what you’re talking about.

  62. @Peter Frost

    “If I had to choose a single word, it would be “seducer.” The girls in question were seduced before being gradually brought under control and ultimately confined.”

    And there’s that semantics battle I was talking about. One does not “seduce” preteen girls, they are unable to give consent; any type of sexual relationship with them is abuse, and intercourse is rape. But you paint it up as pretty as you can so we can all pretend that what’s happening isn’t exactly what we all know it is.

  63. @Myra Esoteric

    “If this behavior in the UK is caused by culture or ethnicity, then why isn’t it happening in the US?”

    In a word, “firearms.” Of course, it is happening to a degree in the U.S., but only to those who have been completely abandoned by their caregivers. There were British fathers who attempted to intervene, but they were brushed aside and ignored. Nothing for them to do but go home. An American father, on the other hand, goes home… and gets his gun. Then bad shit happens. But it gets noticed. Not so easy to marginalize and ignore a problem when it comes with dead bodies. Sometimes, violence is the answer.

  64. Peter Frost says: • Website

    Tom,

    Assimilation is a two-stage process: (a) the loss of the behavioral restraints of your original culture and (b) the adoption of the behavioral restraints of your new culture. In a Western context, only the first stage occurs. This is partly because Western cultures have long been individualistic and have relied more on internal means of behavioral control, like guilt and empathy. It’s also because Western cultures have become increasingly acultural. Behavior is now kept in line either by internal mental control or by the brute force of the State.

    Young Pakistani men in Western societies have in most cases lost most of their traditional culture. Yes, many are turning towards radicalized forms of Islam (which itself is a Western/non-Western hybrid), but don’t kid yourself. Many of those “groomers” are no more religious than the rest of us. You won’t solve this problem by banning radical Islam or Islam in any form.

    Georgie,

    I’m confused. Are you being optimistic or pessimistic? If you think the UKIP will make a big difference, I wish you all the best. If they keep getting 30% of the vote, they will get seats and eventually form the government. How do you think the Labour Party started out?

    I would question, however, whether they will make a difference. From my side of the pond, they sound a lot like our own Conservatives or the Tea Party of the U.S.

    Uh, when was I talking about intellectuals? I was talking about ordinary people, the kind of people I meet at church, at community events, or simply in the street. Yes, many of them are working class. And yes, I get to talk to a lot of people. They often say the same thing: Why is no one saying anything? (As if they are not being accomplices in this false consensus by saying nothing themselves).

    Maybe things are very different in Britain. Again, I wish you the best of luck.

    • Replies: @Georgie
  65. Emilia says:

    Big question that I don’t see addressed in these discussions: what kind of girls fall prey to these pimps? I suspect it’s often girls from unstable homes (ex. abuse, parents having a different sexual partner every week, etc.). Sadly, the same kind of girls who fall prey to serial killers – look at, for example, Robert Picton who killed a bunch of street prostitutes in Vancouver, Canada, or the late mass murderer Clifford Olson, who preyed on runaway teens. Girls whose families might not be in the picture or might be so embroiled in their own problems they don’t or can’t stop their daughters from going down the wrong path.

  66. Georgie says:
    @Peter Frost

    Frost, they’ll never form a government, even with 30%, because of first past the post. The popularity of UKIP is evenly spread such that it never reach a critical mass in constiuencies to secure the seat. The electoral system is rigged.

    I’m not banking anything on them, the reason I cited them is because you said there’s a preponderance to defer to established authorities, when the fact that a new party like UKIP, a right wing anti-immigration party, can do so well in elections is a testimony against that point.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  67. Max Payne says:

    That’s what happens when you Ghettoize your immigrants (like the UK does). Look at Canada and its large Indian and Pakistani communities who constitute as the country’s LEGIT doctors, engineers, and professional youths of all kinds.

    In Canada you get treated like a human being and therefore you act like a human being. In the UK you get treated like some scumbag terrorist (or in the US how black and Hispanic population are automatically treated as criminals) then you’ll act like a scumbag/criminal/etc. etc. etc…..

    If Canada (with its 20% immigrants for a population) can do it…why not the rest?

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    , @rec1man
    , @Sean
    , @Taysse
  68. @Georgie

    Given that at least 10% of British voters are non-British in origin, the 30% (actually nearly 33%) means that almost 40% of the British support a heavily anti-immigration party (whose leader actually told the public that immigration was not primarily an economic issue but at least as much a cultural issue of keeping Britain British) which is perceived to be anti-establishment. (You can also add to that the vote of BNP and some smaller splinter groups.) Also take into account that Scotland has very few immigrants and UKIP is very weak there, this could mean that in spite of a very strong establishment propaganda nearly half of all non-Scottish Britons voted for parties whose main issues were leaving the EU and stopping immigration. You can imagine the level of discontent there. It also shows how difficult it is for the electorate to get its preferences through the political system.

  69. Taysse says:

    If I follow Mr. Frost’s line of argument correctly, I seem to be getting this:

    The problem in our society now is “the mass migration of certain communities from an environment where behavior is subject to certain checks and balances to one where these are virtually absent” and these “differences keep us from becoming interchangeable units in a global community.” Sounds like a problem with multiculturalism to me. But ‘multiculturalism isn’t to blame. The problem is elsewhere.” And Islam isn’t to blame because “many of those (people) are no more religious than the rest of us. You won’t solve this problem by banning radical Islam or Islam in any form.” So there are serious differences somewhere but they aren’t multicultural or religious. They’re actually very hard to find because these people with the differences “have assimilated to a great degree.” But, here’s the rub: “Maybe they aren’t assimilating as you would like them to assimilate.” So the problem seems to be that we are being unfair and irrational in our expectations for foreigners to fit into our society. And why is this so unfair and irrational on our part? Well, (take a deep breath now) because “… for almost any individual difference one wants to assess in the psychological realm, the percentage of within-population variance that can be attributed to underlying, within-population, genetic variance is about 40 percent, plus or minus 20 percent. (The mass of studies which has accrued over a long period suggests that heritability for cognitive abilities is probably on the high end of that range, heritability for attitudes is probably on the low end, and heritability for personality is about in the middle …” So what’s to do? Well, you see, it’s like this: it’s kinda hard “to translate the explanation into applicable solutions. To go from one to the other may involve surmounting mental and political obstacles.” Yes, indeed, “the whole issue is a messy ball of wax”. Thank you for that, Mr. Peter Frost.
    1400 young girls have been gang raped by Muslims in the single town of Rotherham over the course of the last decade. Numbers aren’t in yet from other English or, for that matter, European towns. I, who am definitely no enlightened anthropologist, would say that we have reached critical mass here and the pussy-footing and theoretical fine-tuning needs to be put to the side for a few moments while we implement no-nonsense policies putting an end to the multiculturalist social engineering project which is killing the West while doing horrible things to our children. Mr. Frost may claim that the real problem is deeper than multiculturalism and Islam, but if we could just deal with those two for the time being, immediately halting mass immigration, placing severe limits on the practice of Islam in our countries to the point of encouraging emigration and instituting merciless draconian laws compensating the lack of psychological guilt in our assimilated immigrants with a heavy dose of legal guilt, we would undoubtedly create a safer environment for our womenfolk and our children and then we could sit down and have a civilized discussion on genetic variance and heritability for attitudes which I, for one, would definitely be curious to follow.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  70. Sean says:

    I read about one girl victim who was from a middle class home and went to a private school, but she was adopted. Most of the gangs (few of them have been convicted) steer clear of girls under 13. When the girls get too old at 16 or so they are sometimes used to get the younger girls involved. The pimps have a variety of ploys. Pakistanis in northern England tend to be descended from low class immigrants who left a couple of rural regions of Pakistan. There is a dual standard with arranged marriages and Pakistani girls being supervised in their communities. The Ali G character is the other side: an asian trying to act like a black gangsta.

    UKIP is an anti European Community party. The EC is supplanting the authority of the UK nation state, the Crown. UKIP’s main policy (leave the EC ) is actually quite close to the views of many people in the Conservative party. The City of London types want the EC to leave them alone, and their people (the top Conservatives) are beginning to ostentatiously toy with the idea of leaving to get concessions from the EC, so the city of London can continue as a hypercapitalism fox with freedom in the EC hen roost. Will Britain really leave the European Union?
    “Is it conceivable that Britain will leave the European Union? A few years ago this question would hardly have been worth asking. In the past 12 months, however, the issue of EU withdrawal has shot into the British political headlines. The latest, and apparently most authoritative, such headlines appeared this week, after a pugnacious speech by George Osborne, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and second most powerful figure in the British government. Reuters headlined the Chancellor’s comments like this: “Reform or lose us as a member, Osborne tells the EU.” The Daily Telegraph highlighted the same message: “Osborne warns Britain may leave EU over reform failure.” The BBC headline concurred: “Osborne – Don’t force UK choice between euro and EU exit.””

    Anyway, you can’t really describe UKIP as anti establishment. The stereotype of their leadership is they are the golf club crowd. It is true that they are starting to explicitly call for strong controls on immigration. But even the Labour party are doing that now Miliband shifts immigration policy, saying Labour ‘got it wrong’.

    No politician with a sniff at comming to power will say that people from other countries are biologically different and will behave differently in society (especially when they form their own communities within the society) for the reason that I gave in my comments above. Claiming that you are just against Islam is a way to get round the reigning white ideological principle that the unenlightened white default is animus toward non whites. So all this quoting from Islamic texts about right hand sexual abuse is bowing to the ‘you must never say that immigrants’ behavioral propensities are, all other things being equal, not the same; and it’s genetic.

    Buddhism is quite a bit different from Christianity. Take a look at this. And what they were protesting about was Muslims merely marrying their women. (There is another, really horrific, video if you want to look). Now your average white western Buddhist does not do that kind of thing, does he? People in the west who become Buddhists tend to be highly educated, high IQ types. There is a difference between the affluent whites and the white working class; and yet more difference between the white working class and the white underclass. No one denies the within population differences for IQ. Heritability within groups is OK to . But no one will acknowledge the heritability of differences between groups. They prefer to defer to authority, and put immigrant behaviour down to their bad ideology (like Islam). That is what you are doing Georgie; you’re giving ground under authority’s threat to call you a racist.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  71. rec1man says:
    @reiner Tor

    UK Hindus are mid-level castes like Gujurati Patels – ( mid-level farmers )
    UK Sikhs are Punjabis of working class background, Jats ( mid-level farmers )
    same ethnicity as the Mirpuri Pakistani muslims – Difference is religion –

    The british ruling class, had a pro-muslim bias and deliberately imported 4 times more Mirpuri muslims than Sikhs for industrial labor

    For islam, infidel women are legitimate targets -

    In Europe, North African, Turk, muslims predate on white women

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  72. @Max Payne

    Canada selected her immigrants better. High caste Indians and upper and middle class Pakistanis move to Canada, and they become doctors and engineers. Low caste Indians and lower class Pakistanis move to the UK, and they become an underclass. On average, the average Pakistani in the UK is way more similar to the average Pakistani in Pakistan than the average Pakistani Canadian.

    Why is it so difficult to understand?

  73. @Taysse

    Suppressing Islam is just a short term solution. It might be OK to support a politician with a chance of grabbing power right now, but Peter Frost is an anthropologist, and he needs to find real explanations.

    If you stop immigration from Islamic countries, but redouble on immigration from the Caribbean or from non-Muslim parts of Africa, you might make the problem just as bad or even worse.

    • Replies: @Taysse
  74. rec1man says:
    @Max Payne

    Sikhs in UK, who are the same ethnicity as the Pakistani muslims, and also working class dont do this – in fact Sikh girls are also preyed upon by these muslims

  75. @Sean

    The difference on UKIP stance on immigration and Labour stance on immigration is that UKIP is the party to launch the question into the public arena and Labour is the one which begrudgingly had to follow suit. Labour was forced to it after pressure from UKIP forced the Tories and then pressure from UKIP and the Tories forced them as well.

    • Replies: @Sean
  76. Sean says:
    @Max Payne

    The whole world would be looking to Canada as an example, if Canada had been able to make the Native Amerindians into a community of doctors engineers and young professionals . But they didn’t, they brought in people who would be cheaper. Which is what the rest of the world is also doing.

    I would point out that although you can not avoid being caught on a security camera in any urban area of Britain , our police pretend not to notice Muslims in Bentleys (doctors can’t afford a Bentley) cruising around town centres and waiting outside schools for little white girls. And those fathers who dared protest about what was happening to their daughter were the ones who were treated like scumbags.

  77. @rec1man

    Thanks for the correction, I won’t repeat the false information any more.

    However, as far as I know, in India, Muslims are lower class, and the reason could be some sort of self-selection among people converting to Islam, because jizya (the Muslim tax on non-Muslims) was a kind of head tax, and so rich people just paid it easily, whereas poor people rather converted to Islam. This is why Coptic Christians in Egypt are elite status almost as much as Greek Orthodox Christians, even though Coptic Christianity started out as the religion of the poor masses while Greek Orthodox Christianity was the religion of the ruling elites before the Islamic conquest. But all poor people converted to Islam, and only rich Christians stayed Christians. (This might have been a reason for the relative elite status of Jews – poor and less-intelligent Jews tended to desert the religion/ethnic group, and converted to the dominant religion, be it Islam or Christianity.)

    This process is described by Greg Clark in his new book, and I think it is a very good explanation for why Muslims tend to be socially so much worse off than Christians (and other religious minorities) in their midst.

    So this means that, at least in a country formerly ruled by Muslims, Muslims of the same ethnicity will tend to be on average lower IQ and poorer than members of other religious groups.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  78. Sean says:
    @reiner Tor

    No, Ed Balls was pushing before that. In fact the Conservatives were saying On migrants, Balls ‘is to right of Enoch Powell’: Tories condemn would-be Labour leader. The Tories are a capitalist conspiracy, and UKIP is not that different. Farage got tied in knots just trying to explain why he might prefer a German neighbour to a Romanian neighbour. No politician can say that there are differences in behaviour between Europeans and non Europeans that are due to a genetic difference between Europeans and non Europeans. The interviewers know this, they are the ones who bring up race differences. On Newsnight Paxman asked the BNP’s Griffin if he would object to white south African immigrants , or to a his daughter marrying an Asian or African. They were trying to draw him out on genetic racial differences. What Peter is saying is considered evidence of a mental disorder, if you say it in public. The mass of the public, even the anti immigration consensus, don’t accept there are behavioural differences between English and Pakistanis stemming from genetic adaptations.

    • Replies: @reiner Tor
  79. @reiner Tor

    Of course, Islam could make things worse by being a less than intelligent religion.

  80. Taysse says:
    @reiner Tor

    A short-term solution to prevent the obscenely widespread rape of children sounds like a reasonable start to me. I’m all for real explanations and entirely support Mr. Frost’s research and presentation of hypotheses. The fact remains that we have a very very serious problem on our hands right now that requires immediate attention. What are the visible, tangible causes of this problem? Unfettered mass immigration and Islam. Let’s deal with those right away. We cannot afford to wait for our savants to unravel with final certitude the inner mysteries and workings of the human psyche. We are at a very definite historic juncture in the development of our society and, like at every other juncture before this, we cannot hesitate to use the effective means we have at hand. What other choice do we have? Sit back and wait for the perfect solution? When was the last time you saw one of those in human history?
    Mr. Frost’s analysis suggests that the evil is already firmly installed at the heart of our society and that tackling multiculturalism and Islam is an ineffective rearguard action. I agree that we have most certainly placed ourselves in a terrible situation through our misguided immigration policies. As to how effective that action can be…….well, history is replete with examples of societies pulling themselves out of a death spiral. It is, however, equally replete with counter examples.
    And when I suggest we put an end to mass immigration, I certainly mean to include folks from Africa and the Caribbean.

  81. Taysse says:
    @Max Payne

    I think you’ll find that up here in Canada ethnic groups do tend to, if not ghettoize, at least self-segregate quite distinctly. The ‘burbs of Toronto and Vancouver, now minority-majority cities, as they say, provide examples of this. This ethnic togetherness is quite natural, of course, but it also plays out, perhaps more disconcertingly, in the business sector. For example, you may recall a truckers’ strike in Vancouver a few months ago that effectively shut down the port of that city. A truck driver who used to run his own trucking business there told me that South Asians had essentially taken over those businesses by constantly underbidding white truckers for years and driving them out of business. Now that they control the industry, they can strike and apply pressure to bring the wages back up to what they were before. This has not made them very popular though, as you say, they were just acting like human beings.
    The Chinese grip on real estate in those cities is another example and has contributed significantly to making home ownership close to impossible for the white middle class.

  82. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    The real question here: why so many children got abused for so long while police and families were looking the other way? There were extensive reports in Rotherham over years and nobody moved a finger. The victims were treated with contempt, people who raised concerns criticized and suspended. And even after the scandal, nobody took responsibility. THIS ONE is the culture everybody should be wondering about. Where is your guilt and empathy, people? Missing. You can claim your cultural superiority to those Asian boys, but I’m sorry, you’re still their accomplices.

    However, the scandal forced the South Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner to resign, after calls from residents and politicians. Isn’t it a textbook shame culture?

  83. eah says:

    Maybe Shaun Wright can help you look – seems he’s out of work now.

  84. @Sean

    Farage got tied in knots

    This actually means that Farage knows the answer, doesn’t it? So Farage must know why immigration is bad, and he is pushing for less immigration. This at least gives us a chance that he is pushing for less immigration for all the right reasons, doesn’t it? OTOH this makes the interviewers not merely wrong, but also evil: they know the truth, yet pushing for more anti-racism…

  85. AG says:

    Scholarly advice: If your view or conclusion agreed by mostly underlcass people (i.e Low IQ types), your intelligence is in question.

    Present as scholar article is by no mean a true peer criticallly reviewed scolarship. Especially make assumption without true data or fact, all just based “gut” feeling is no different from average folks.

    A true scholar should possesses scholar IQ (at least above 125). If not, better stay away from scholarly investigation. To make thing easy, just measure the head size. If not in x-large range, do not even try to become scholar.

  86. Anon2 says:

    I’m sorry, but it does sound racist. Not in sense of criticizing immigrants from South Asia. But the article sounds like those claiming moral superiority of *so called* Christian society. Police in Rotherham have failed to prosecute a rape gang for 10 years, haven’t they? Come on, let’s blame it on immigration, no guilt or shame for police and authorities.

    I wouldn’t comment on shame cultures or immigration, but can today’s Western culture be qualified as guilt and empathy culture? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Not when it invades and otherwise destroys other nations, craves world dominance and superiority, corporations making poor more poor. So much for immigration from countries that used to be colonies or invaded. But sure, we only should be ashamed in front of our military and business partners.

  87. Sean says:

    Anon2 “I wouldn’t comment on shame cultures or immigration, but can today’s Western culture be qualified as guilt and empathy culture? Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Not when it invades and otherwise destroys other nations, craves world dominance and superiority”.

    Humanitarian intervention in Syria and Iraq, but why no humanitarian intervention in Rotherham, eh?

    reiner Tor, if a politician like Griffin, the most electorally successful leader the BNP has ever had, is simply avoided the issue, that is for good reason. There is no evidence Farage understands that humans have adapted to local circumstances in many different ways with adaptations that involve mental traits with moderate to high heritability, none at all (and even Enoch Powell never said that). Anyway the Western world says you can’t get an ought from an is. Probably they should make the genetic argument, if only because it can’t do much harm, or good. A half-century trend of accelerating immigration shows that no argument will work.

    IC, “If your view or conclusion agreed by mostly underclass people (i.e Low IQ types), your intelligence is in question.”

    For the highly educated, facts do not determine values. But those of dominant socioeconomic status have a deep suspicion that the white masses don’t understand that moral advanced position. So the social sciences (including economics) strain and torture the data to prove that their values are a logical deduction from the facts. Hence Rotherham.

  88. @Georgie

    I’m English.

    ExPat though. You need to carefully re read what I actually said.

    The high cooperation and trust can only work if the population is relatively homogenous.

  89. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Several commentators here criticized the working-class White population for not speaking out. The following article explains how no less than six police officers jumped out of a van to assist in the brutal arrest of a working-class White victim who recently encountered her abuser on the street. The charge? “[S]uspicion of racially aggravated public order offences.” Her (alleged) abuser, on the other hand, remains a free man pending the conclusion of the essentially moribund investigation investigation into his (alleged) actions.

    “Rotherham child-sex victim confronts her alleged abuser in the street… but SHE is arrested by a van load of police”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2756140/Rotherham-child-abuse-victim-confronts-alleged-abuser-street-SHE-arrested-van-load-police.html

  90. Dutch says:

    1. Re-instate the death penalty.
    2. Apply death penalty to abusers.
    3. Apply death penalty to treacherous domestic enablers/apologists.

    Problem solved.

  91. eah says:

    Just in case you are still looking for “answers” here:

    Police open investigation as Mario Balotelli suffers racial abuse on Twitter after post about Man United’s defeat at Leicester City

    As I recall, the gist of the report on Rotherham was that when it concerned muslims raping underage white girls, the police could hardly have cared less.

  92. Keith Vaz [AKA "D\'Marco Mobley"] says:

    The probems all have one source: FEMALE SUFFRAGE

  93. eah says:

    Not to overdo it, but…

    Daily Mail: Angry MPs demand police and prosecutors explain ‘absurd’ failings in investigation into missing teenager Alice Gross

    Can you — or anyone else, for that matter — find a news story about how ‘MPs demand police and prosecutors explain absurd failings in Rotherham abuse scandal’?

  94. eah says:

    So how’s that search for answers going? Find any answers yet?

    Couple singing Peppa Pig tune to toddler ‘forced off bus after complaints they were being racist’ because it goes against Muslim pork ban

    The couple, who live in Rotherham, started singing the song in an effort to cheer their daughter up, but say they were branded racists by another passenger and told to get off the bus by its driver…The couple claimed the woman, who they saw was wearing a hijab, took offence to the snorting sounds in the song and believed they were a reference to how pork is forbidden in Islam though this has not been confirmed…She complained to the bus’s driver, who, it is claimed, then told the couple it would be ‘easier’ for them to get off two miles from their home.

    Yes, “easier”.

  95. eah says:

    BBC — Peter Nunn jailed for Twitter abuse of MP Stella Creasy

    It appears that when it concerns people who post mean things on twitter, the police in the UK are hot on the trail of the, err, criminal. For muslim rapists of underage British white girls, not so much.

  96. eah says:

    A future Conservative government would seek new powers to ban extremist groups and curb the activities of “harmful” individuals, Theresa May says.

    Did she propose any new measures in the aftermath of the report on Rotherham? I don’t recall hearing of any.

    I wonder if muslim pedophile rapists are, or will be, considered ‘harmful individuals’…

  97. eah says:

    Almaz’s Story — Benjamin Dix and Lindsay Pollock tell the disturbing story of a young Ethiopian woman abused by her employers in Saudi Arabia

    A sad story.

    But somehow I don’t think they will be telling the “disturbing story” of poor white girls “abused” by muslim rapists and officialdom in Rotherham (assuming you can call ignoring underage rape “abuse”, which is not too much of a stretch ).

  98. eah says:

    Perhaps the search for answers needs to be expanded to include Bradford.

    BBC — Council sent abused girl back home to rapist father

    Bradford Metropolitan Council has paid £160,000 to a woman who was sent from a care home back to live with the father who had already raped her.

    Sarah* gave evidence against her father in court about the rapes, which took place from the age of ten, but he was acquitted.

    She was then sent back to live with him, where she was repeatedly raped, fell pregnant and gave birth to his child.

    *Sarah is not the woman’s real name.

  99. eah says:

    It looks like that, in addition to Bradford, the ‘search for answers’ in Rotherham must go on.

    BBC — Rotherham protest: Traders call for demonstration ban

    Traders in Rotherham have launched a petition calling for new laws to ban protests in the town…Charlotte Scothern, owner of the Patchwork Pig gift shop on High Street, started the petition which asks for marches and demonstrations to be measured not just in terms of public safety but on “economic impact or reputation“.

    Yes, we certainly would not want anything to happen that would damage the “reputation” of Rotherham. No we wouldn’t.

    Question: Has anyone in Rotherham — or anywhere else in the UK, for that matter — called for new laws to make sure that what happened in Rotherham — you know, when muslims raped underage British white girls practically with impunity — never happens again? Instead of calling for laws to ban “protests”, which can rightly be seen as free speech. Just curious.

  100. viking says:
    @Numinous

    First libtard its true theres libraries full of research [see authors footnotes] in the relevant disciplines which has been going on for at least since Darwin and Galton.
    Secondly this remark insinuating its only a matter of weather that makes one fit for an environment is well pretty retarded.The point of this article and the studies of disciplines like evolutionary biology and psychology, evolutionary genetics, etc etc is that its not a question of nature vs nurture, its all nature! Yes that means the whole liberal progressive project is a dead letter. As traits were selected for, cultures were formed that reflected those traits, eventually those cultures themselves become a selection pressure in a biological feedback loop.
    So while it might be true that White people have solved the technological problems of living in northern climates and that the technology is transferable through welfare subsidies to people selected for hunter gathering in southern climes or in this case inbred tribalism in mideast climes.What we cant do is send their DNA through a 10 or 40 thousand year process where they do not inbreed and become tribal but outbreed and become democratic, where they can form large cities with their higher tolerance of strangers which allows for more complicated financial social and government systems reliant on high degrees of trust through guilt, where violence is selected out and co operation is selected in. Now we are starting to identify the specific gene s for thing like high IQ and low violence and while it might be possible to give welfare subsidies to make these people more like us why bother why not just let them be in their own environments you know diversity. Or is the progressive idea not really multiculturalism but monoculturalism?If you think it would be too in humane to send them back to their own countries LOL perhaps you could manage their countries for them we wouldn’t have to call it colonialism maybe call it the IMF united nations World bank NGOs Organized Religion oh yeah it doesnt work when you bring your culture to their lands heres a better way take away all the AK47s nikes and TVs and let them revert to natural state it would be organic

  101. eah says:

    Andrew Green co-founded MigrationWatch with Professor Coleman in 2001

    At the time, there was widespread fear of being accused of racism

    Of course no one in the UK today worries about being called ‘racist’ — the very idea is absurd. And they would certainly never, ever let white British girls be raped by muslims rather than risk being called ‘racist’ — that may have happened years ago, but not today.

  102. eah says:

    A pensioner who said ‘I’m not Muslim’ when he was asked to remove his shoes at airport security has spent more than six months facing charges for racism.

    Mr Griffith was allowed to go on his trip but was arrested when he returned. He was charged with causing ‘racially or religiously aggravated harassment, alarm or distress’.

    I guess the Asian men who sexually abused all of those young white girls did not cause anyone “distress” — anyone of consequence. That’s why they weren’t arrested. Also apparently no one was ‘alarmed’ by what they were doing.

  103. […] supposedly feminist Labour council. The anthropologist Peter Frost has discovered that “500 girls were missing from the 15 to 19 age group at the last census” in Rotherham. “Confinement” may account for […]

  104. eah says:

    Disgraced former Milton Keynes Mayor gave character references for THREE alleged sex offenders

    Disgraced ex-mayor Subhan Shafiq gave character references for THREE alleged sex offenders applying to become city cabbies, it has been revealed…Mr Shafiq resigned as mayor when it emerged he had given a reference to a convicted rapist who successfully applied to become a city taxi driver. Nadeem Ahmed Kiani, who had four convictions for serious sexual offences, went on to work in the city for three years. Mr Shafiq has also worked as a cabbie in the city himself.

    A cabbie as mayor? Why not!? Convicted sex offenders as cab drivers? Ditto!?

  105. eah says:

    BBC — Isabella Sorley was jailed after posting abusive messages on Twitter

    No idea what the “abusive messages” were.

    Anyway, a couple of questions: To date, how many people have been jailed for sexually abusing underage girls in Rotherham? Which crime is actually seen as worse in today’s UK: posting “abusive messages” on Twitter, or sexually abusing underage girls?

    Still looking for answers…

  106. donut says:

    Call animal control and have them put down.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Peter Frost Comments via RSS