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African district, Guangzhou (Wikicommons: Anna Frodesiak)
African district, Guangzhou (Wikicommons: Anna Frodesiak)

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Long a land of emigration, China has become one of immigration. Surprising? Not really. Life is now better there than in most of the Third World. Meanwhile, with fewer people leaving the Chinese countryside for the cities, employers have to offer higher wages and better working conditions … or get their labor elsewhere. Finally, with migrant communities taking root and growing larger, it is becoming easier for newcomers to overstay their visas and vanish into the crowd …

Where are they coming from? Mostly from Africa. Their growing numbers mirror the similarly growing numbers of Chinese on that continent—already over a million. Indeed, when asked what entitles them to live in China, some will shoot back: “We are here because you are there!” (Bodomo and Ma, 2010)

Background

The African influx is most noticeable in Guangzhou. This South China city, formerly Canton, is renowned as a place where foreign wholesalers can buy inexpensive garments, footwear, and electronic products. This is why so many Africans come as traders and, increasingly, as immigrants. The term “trader” should be understood broadly. Some of them are indeed rich businessmen, but others are poor and can scarcely pay for their airfare. In a survey of this community, Li et al. (2007) offer the following quotes as typical:

‘…They don’t even have 100 dollars in their pockets, and could hardly pay for bills of hotels in the first few days when [they] arrived in Guangzhou…’ (Interviewee No. 22).

‘…Unlike those who have money for two weeks in their pocket, we Africans start from nothing… In order to have the money for meals tomorrow, we have to work immediately when we arrive in Guangzhou…’ (Interviewee No. 25).

African traders began to come in large numbers only in the late 1990s, when the Asian financial crisis strengthened the hand of market reformers who wished to open up China’s economy to the world, this process culminating in their country’s admission to the WTO in 2001. In particular, rental accommodations became more accessible to foreigners. Over the next decade, several predominantly African districts began to take shape, the biggest one being nicknamed “Chocolate City” (Bodomo, 2010; Li et al., 2007).

How many Africans live in Guangzhou today? Officially, only 16,000—those with resident status (Pinghui, 2014). A larger group of migrants eke out a semi-resident status by periodically renewing their short-term visas. Finally, the largest group encompasses those with no status at all. A recent study puts the total at over 200,000, with up to half being “three illegals”—people who have entered illegally, overstayed illegally, or obtained work illegally (Wang, 2014). For China as a whole, Bodomo and Ma (2010) suggest a total of nearly 500,000 Africans.

The gap between official figures and reality is consistent with what Castillo (2014) reports from conversation with Nigerians at a soccer pitch:

In addition to the players, a three-year-old is kicking a ball around. With play at the other end of the patch, the goalkeeper turns and asks sternly for the half-Nigerian half-Chinese child to show his passport and visa. Everyone laughs. “There are many young Nigerians here without valid visas,” Tony says, explaining the joke. “There may be hundreds only in Guangzhou.” At today’s training session, only five people have valid visas—the rest are overstayers. (Castillo, in press)

These Africans seem to live a precarious existence, always in danger of deportation. Yet the danger is more apparent than real. China depends on their continent for resources to sustain her current economic growth, and any mass deportation would jeopardize access to those resources. After a 2012 crackdown in Beijing on African migrants, Nigerian authorities retaliated by arresting 45 Chinese traders (Marsh, 2014). And it’s not as if Africa cannot sell her resources to the U.S. or Western Europe. So Beijing has learned to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration for the sake of economic interest. This is not to deny that undocumented Africans are often harassed by public officials of various sorts, but this harassment usually comes from lower levels of authority, particularly the Guangzhou municipal government.

So mass deportations seem unlikely. Efforts to limit immigration will remain low profile … and largely ineffective. This reality is understood by African immigrants, who have learned to elude the authorities accordingly. Mathews et al. (2014) describe the strategies of visa overstayers in South China: “These strategies include laying low beneath the notice of the state, using one’s social networks and cultural capital in one’s evaluation of uncertain information, and engaging in self-presentation that remains carefully concealed.” Another strategy is to disperse to other urban centres, particularly Foshan:

During the last years, the neighbouring city of Foshan has become a second centre of African migration. While a growing number of migrants have been moving from Guangzhou to Foshan, an increased direct migration to Foshan can also be witnessed. (Bork-Huffer et al., 2014)

Yiwu is likewise mentioned as an increasingly preferred destination:

In Yiwu both ordinary Chinese residents and Chinese law-enforcement agencies treat Africans with greater civility, and incidents of discrimination by Zhejiang law enforcement officers are — based on our experience, interviews with Africans in both cities, and field work — notably less. (Bodomo and Ma, 2010)

Evidently, these strategies—lying low, using social networks, and dispersion to other cities—reflect a strong motivation to stay:

A distinctive feature of Africans in China, which differentiates them from other foreign nationals, is their expressed intention to settle in China for a long period [...] Most Africans are actually seeking a life in China if the local situation permits them to remain. Moreover, a significant part of African immigrants are relatively poor when they arrive at China. (Zhu and Price, 2013)

Other considerations

In addition to the threat of economic reprisals by their home countries, African immigrants have other points working in their favor:

Rudimentary immigration control. China is only now learning how to deal with illegal immigration. Controls are still weak and unevenly applied. Africans themselves know this and will often go to centers outside Guangzhou to renew their visas.

Illusion of demographic superiority. Because China has well over a billion people, one might think that it could absorb millions of Africans without any noticeable change. In reality, China’s population has a shrinking base of young people and is aging rapidly because of a very low fertility rate. The number of 15- to 24-year-olds will drop by 38 million, or 21%, over the next ten years (Anon, 2013). In contrast, African immigrants are much younger and accustomed to having large families. They already make up 2% of Guangzhou’s population and are well positioned to grow numerically through immigration and natural increase.

Seeing the future in terms of the past. Chinese authorities see their country’s future as a better version of the past. While China has a history of foreigners forming enclaves on her territory, these enclaves never had the potential to become demographically important. Their power was economic and political. Consequently, no historical precedent exists and comparisons to the past will lead to flawed responses.

Among academics, there is a growing consensus that the African community will continue to grow and become comparable in size to similar communities in Western Europe. Liang (2014) argues that African immigration to China has a potential not only for further growth but also for growth of an exponential nature. Pioneer communities have formed and will provide further immigrants with the means to get established and, if necessary, with cover to evade the authorities. Local businesses are also coming to depend on African immigrants, either as workers for low-wage jobs or as tenants for substandard flats. The potential for growth is strong:

This study shows that though China is a nonimmigration and developing country, the current immigration of Africans in Guangzhou has entered its early stage. A migration network connecting Africa and China is rapidly emerging [...]

As long as the Chinese economy continues to develop and maintains social stability, transnational migration will continue to increase in China. At some point, foreign immigrants will form a powerful pressure group. China has entered the stage in which labor costs are starting to rise; meanwhile, an aging society is also beginning to take shape. [...] With the rise of domestic economic levels and social living standards, immigration issues will gradually develop from a peripheral social problem into an important social problem that will ultimately affect politics, economy, society, diplomacy, national security, and other issues.

Castillo (2014) concurs, seeing African immigration as a growing embarrassment for the Chinese, who can neither halt it nor fit it into their dream of a better future:

The difficulty that Africans and many other foreigners encounter in China suggests that the Chinese Dream, if it ever becomes more than a political slogan, might be closer to an exclusionary ethno-nationalist fantasy of Han ‘prosperity’ than to a dreamland of opportunities for ‘outsiders.’

Interestingly, although Liang wishes to limit African immigration, he justifies his stance on purely economic grounds. Immigration should be limited to “those African immigrants who bring in capital and trade opportunities.” Like Castillo, he sees China as an entity that should exist to maximize “opportunities” in a global marketplace, and not as a vehicle for perpetuating the Chinese people and their identity.

And the future?

It would be easy to conclude that African immigration will be halted at an early stage, given the intensity of nationalist feeling in China. This is typically an outsider’s view. In reality, there are both nationalist and globalist currents in contemporary China, and it is far from clear which is stronger.

In any case, contemporary Chinese nationalism is part of the problem. It is driven by “Big China” thinking—a wish to make the country a major global player. To that end, the economy must continue to grow at a high rate, and to this end there must be unhindered access to African resources, yet it is this very imperative that justifies the current lax policy on African immigration.

This dilemma will become more acute in coming years. Chinese nationalism, as it now exists, shares many premises with globalism, and a viable third way will emerge only with great difficulty.

References

Anon (2013). Peak toil, The Economist, January 26. http://www.economist.com/news/china/21570750-first-two-articles-about-impact-chinas-one-child-policy-we-look-shrinking

Bodomo, A. (2010). The African Trading Community in Guangzhou: An Emerging Bridge for Africa-China Relations, The China Quarterly, 203, 693-707. http://www.hku.hk/linguist/staff/ChinaQuarterlySubmission2009ResearchPaper.doc

Bodomo, A.B. and G. Ma (2010). From Guangzhou to Yiwu: Emerging facets of the African Diaspora in China, International Journal of African Renaissance Studies – Multi-, Inter and Transdisciplinarity, 5, 2, 283-289. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/18186874.2010.534854

Bork-Huffer, T., B. Rafflenbeul, F. Kraas, and Z. Li. (2014). Global Change, National Development Goals, Urbanisation and International Migration in China: African Migrants, in F. Kraas, S. Aggarwal, M. Coy, and G. Mertins (ed.), in Megacities. Our Global Urban Future, International Year of Planet Earth, pp. 135-150, Springer. http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-90-481-3417-5_10#

Castillo, R. (in press). ‘Homing’ Guangzhou: emplacement, belonging and (alternative) citizenship amongst Africans in China, International Journal of Cultural Studies http://africansinchina.net/2014/12/03/research-homing-guangzhou-emplacement-belonging-and-alternative-citizenship-amongst-africans-in-china/

Castillo, R. (2014). Un-dreaming the ‘Chinese Dream’: precarity, solidarity and organisation amongst Africans in Guangzhou, paper delivered at: Producing Anthropology, the 113th Annual Meeting of the American Anthropological Association. Washington, DC, 3-7, 2014. http://africansinchina.net/2014/12/09/research-un-dreaming-the-chinese-dream-precarity-solidarity-and-organisation-amongst-africans-in-guangzhou/

Li, Z, D. Xue, M. Lyons, A. Brown. (2007). Ethnic Enclave of Transnational Migrants in Guangzhou: A Case Study of Xiaobei. http://asiandrivers.open.ac.uk/lyons%20brown%20zhigang%20li%20ethnic%20enclaves%20china%20(2).pdf

Liang, Y. (2014). The causal mechanism of migration behaviors of African immigrants in Guangzhou: from the perspective of cumulative causation theory, The Journal of Chinese Sociology, 1:2. http://www.journalofchinesesociology.com/content/1/1/2/

Marsh, J. (2014). Afro-Chinese marriages boom in Guangzhou: but will it be ’til death do us part’? South China Morning Post, June 1. http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1521076/afro-chinese-marriages-boom-guangzhou-will-it-be-til-death?page=all

Mathews, G., D. Lin, and Y. Yang. (2014). How to Evade States and Slip Past Borders: Lessons from Traders, Overstayers, and Asylum Seekers in Hong Kong and China, City & Society, 26, 217-238. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ciso.12041/abstract?deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false

Pinghui, Z. (2014). Guangzhou clarifies size of African community amid fears over Ebola virus, South China Morning Post, November 1. http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1629415/guangzhou-clarifies-size-african-community-amid-fears-over-ebola-virus

Wang, N. (2014). Guangzhou Home to Largest African Expat Population in Asia, Many Illegal, The Nanfang Insider, September 1. http://www.thenanfang.com/blog/guangzhou-home-to-largest-african-expat-population-in-asia-many-illegal/

Zhu, G., and R. Price (2013). Chinese Immigration Law and Policy: A Case of ‘Change Your Direction or End Up Where You are Heading’? Columbia Journal of Asian Law, 26, 1-30. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2088683

 
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  1. JayMan says: • Website

    Indeed, when asked what entitles them to live in China, some will shoot back: “We are here because you are there!”

    Hard to argue with that.

    • Replies: @Joe Walker
    , @Priss Factor
  2. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Great,

  3. Bill P says:

    Amazing. I saw the very beginning of this first-hand, but I never would have thought Africans would be in China in such significant numbers

    Although some may find it odd, Africans actually fit in with Chinese better than they do with Westerners in some ways. Chinese don’t really think in Western racial terms, and in fact a lot of Chinese peasants are pretty dark themselves.

    Chinese have a patronizing attitude toward tribal peoples, and support policies to bring them into the greater Chinese civilization through intermarriage. By the time people have a Chinese surname and speak the language fluently, they are considered racially Chinese even if they don’t look Chinese to an outsider.

    As an example, after some time in China I could speak Chinese pretty well without too much of an accent. When I became confident and conversational in the language, Chinese people would insist, in all seriousness, that I must be part Chinese. But I was as white as white gets, blue-eyed and light-haired with a red beard, and about six inches taller and much hairier than your average Chinese guy. Still, they insisted that I “looked Chinese.”

    Eventually, I discovered that in Chinese people’s minds, adopting Chinese language and culture has a big influence on their perceptions. So my guess is that Africans in China will integrate better than they can in Anglo countries. From what I saw, they certainly had no trouble finding wives among Chinese women.

    Another thing to consider is that south China’s climate is close to tropical. Africans would be perfectly comfortable there as peasants, and I don’t see why Chinese landlords would be averse to having them as tenant farmers in the ancient pattern of Chinese agriculture. Perhaps a mixed population with roots in both China and Africa will emerge, and the Africa of the future will end up partially sinicized both culturally and racially.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @IA
    , @Massimo Heitor
  4. It will be interesting to see whether the usual country of origin effects will be found among immigrants in China. Perhaps not. Hard to say about the selection factors.

  5. Realist says:

    One of the most stupid things China can do is allow immigration of low IQ populations.

    • Replies: @Joe Walker
  6. Well, that was interesting. Although Africans are still just a very small portion of China’s population, probably well below 1%.

    • Replies: @rb
  7. Sean says:

    I don’t know about the Chinese need for African resources being the determining factor, there could be reasons for the Chinese, the elite ones that is, wanting black Africans in their county. One possibility is they think avoiding allegations of racism is essential.

    …the Chinese Dream, if it ever becomes more than a political slogan, might be closer to an exclusionary ethno-nationalist fantasy

    There is precedent for a country apparently importing Africans with the objective of avoiding the accusation of ‘exclusionary ethno-nationalist fantasy’ in mind.

    Obviously it’s not the main reason, but a factor be the Chinese elite want to demoralise the native population, like the French sending Senegalese into the Rhineland. These migrants are mainly young men from poligynous countries who will scoop the Chinese women as single chinese men look on. That has to be demoralising for the Chinese prolitariat, although trying that might be a high risk strategy for the elite considering the shortage of women in China and the Nanjing anti-African protests. But China has already taken measures to ensure that there is no youth bulge like there was back then.

    A mixture of neo classical economics and ignorance of HBD (cheap Africanized labour will be able to make good smartphones in Chinese factories no problem once capital provided by Chinese bosses) plus elite fear and loathing of the lower orders. Much the same as the Western rulers really.

  8. A much needed article on this subject, Mr. Frost!

    Just a couple of points:

    1. This thing is also happening in India, albeit comparatively slowly. It seems that the now famous White Nationalist slogan of “that for that but this for that” is rather moot. Globalism (and the globalist) does not like ANY boundaries.

    2. Of course Africans want to stay in China! Africans crave China for the Chinese civil society and economic opportunities, both of which are the product of Han Chinese people. Chinese crave Africa for mineral resources and perhaps, land, neither of which are the products of Africans. It’s what the Chinese may well call “an unequal relationship”.

    3. IQ isn’t everything. Despite claims of higher mean IQ of the Han, they simply haven’t learned anything from the dysfunction in, say for example, the US. Qualitatively, the Black-Yellow divide is far greater temperamentally, than the Black-White divide. Africans are NOT going to be assimilated within the Chinese culture. Instead, given the general docility of the Chinese and the aggressive charisma of Africans, the former will soon realize that they have the short end of the rope. Furthermore, as millions of African men start marrying the increasingly rare Chinese women, there is much reason to fear Nien rebellion style uprisings on that part of the world.

    4. I STRONGLY DISAGREE with you on your allegation of non-Northen Europeans lacking in the self-defeating version of empathy. There are plenty of Indian equivalents of bleeding-heart do-gooder White liberal hippies (see here and hereand here). I am sure such elements exist among the Chinese as well. These elements will make tough for the Chinese to do anything about their, now guaranteed, African problem.

  9. that is one of the most important questions of our time. until some time ago I had the idea that there could be at least one place in earth which is neither completely unlivable (like the arctic regions) nor touched by the world wired demographic expansion of subsaharan africa, especially west africa. this place was of course east asia.
    but this seems not to be the case. Demographic and cultural diversity was yesterday, tomorrow everywhere is the same: just many copies of Ghana or Nigeria.

    Also “Illusion of demographic superiority” this is greatly observed. The chinese, at least those I know, are totally into this illusion. They have absolutely no idea in what a kind of competition they are, and they are loosing it. They can´t see that there are only around 1.6 billion east asians in this world, and instead of worrying about some irrelevant rocks in the chinese sea they should rather worry about the fact that in Nigeria there have been already half as many births compared to china in the last year. Some decades ago China had ten times as many births as Nigeria. And while China had around 25% of the world population in 1900 it will probably have less than 10% in 2100.

    Most Whites also have no idea about the competetation there are into, but still they are in a better position. What east asian people totally lack are demographic refugiums like europeans do have. Europeans do have such demographic refugiums a) in the form of social groups like Amish, Ultra Orthodox Jews, Old believers in Russia, all with very high TFR and non-urban lifestyle with other values than academic merit and such. There are no such groups in East Asia, everybody is dreaming the “I live in the city and become an IT specialist” dream. b) Europeans are distributed around the world, from New Zealand to Canada, to southern Argentina. Thus Europeans many live in places far away from the civilizational centers and are much more immune against demographic change in such centers.

    Given the fact that racial differences seem to be much bigger between east asians and subsaharan africans than between subsaharaan africans and whites (I even guess redial differences between East Asians and Whites are bigger than differences between Whites and Subsaharan Africans) one can predict that the imbalances in the future multiracial chinese society will be much bigger than the imbalances in western multiracial societies. This will concern imbalances such as the imbalance of who beats whom up on the school yard, where the males and where the females come from in mixed marriages etc.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  10. Being that the vast majority (probably 80% +) of these migrants are male, and usually do not bring wives or girlfriends with them, they typically marry local women. If that is the case, the real issue is how fast will Africans immigrate and for how long? Because if immigration were to slow in the next 20 years, the remaining African population would just result in an absorption of their population into the dominant Han majority, although this might take 3-4 generations. This is basically, what has happened historically in China with various immigrant groups.

    Despite whatever Chinese racism might be existent against dark skin people or black Africans specifically, what seems to matter more in China than skin color (especially for males) is money. As long as these Africans can early significantly more money than the lowest class females in their area, they will continue to have marriage opportunities with Han women.

    I speak as an African American who has lived in Taipei , Chengdu, and Shanghai (lastly in March of 2014).

    • Replies: @Bill P
  11. Oh great, so Africans are going to take over China as well? How depressing.

  12. Cahokia says:

    I was in Gangzhou last week. Didn’t see a single African immigrant although I was told they’re there.

    In Beijing, I saw Chinese posing for photos with black American tourists because they’re still a novelty.

  13. @Bengali Dude
    of course the white nationalist slogan wrong, but it is also wrong that current migration patters don´t know any structure or boundaries.
    The idea is: All countries for Subsaharaan Africans (especially West Africans)

  14. bossel says:

    Africans themselves know this and will often go to centers outside Guangzhou to renew their visas.

    That may have been the case before 2014, but recently the visa regulations became far stricter than before & they are enforced as well. So, unless they know someone they can bribe, the endless renewal of visas is not an option anymore.

    Inherent Chinese racism (or preciser: colorism) will probably prevent large scale intermarriage, unless as Dragon Horse said the Black African has enough money to out-compete the local men.

    Speaking of Black African, the article always speaks of Africans. Can I assume that that includes Northern Africans, i.e. caucasoids? That would make the numbers more believable since there is a large number of “Arabs” in Canton.

    Mass deportations are not necessary since the numbers of illegals are still fairly low (up to 100,000 in a Canton population of 12.7m, but probably much less, see link below). & since the Africans do not yet seem to be working in large concentrations in – say – factories, they will only be caught & deported in small numbers.

    For a much more realistic (IMO) presentation of the situation in Canton:

    http://africansinchina.net/how-many-africans-are-there-in-guangzhou/

  15. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Afro-chinese Marriages Boom In Guangzhou

    http://scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/

    article/1521076/afro-chinese-marriages-
    boom-guangzhou-will-it-be-til-death

    “A university graduate whose parents are government officials, Zhang lives in Guangzhou but has a prized Beijing hukou and owns a phone-battery retail business.

    “I liked the way he did business,” she says, of falling in love with her South African husband. “If I was married to a Chinese man, I could not be a strong woman like I
    am today. My husband is 11 years older and he teaches me.”

    She notes that a Chinese man would benefit equally from taking an African wife, but that is unheard of in Guangzhou. As one bootylicious Liberian hairdresser, who works on the third floor of a tower block, says, “Chinese men aren’t manly, they aren’t sexual to us.”

    (East African prostitutes working in Little Africa, however, report that 50 per cent of their clients are Chinese men who “want to try it”, according to Matthews.)”

    • Replies: @Joe Walker
  16. Bill P says:
    @Dragon Horse

    Despite whatever Chinese racism might be existent against dark skin people or black Africans specifically, what seems to matter more in China than skin color (especially for males) is money. As long as these Africans can early significantly more money than the lowest class females in their area, they will continue to have marriage opportunities with Han women.

    I speak as an African American who has lived in Taipei , Chengdu, and Shanghai (lastly in March of 2014).

    Actually, it’s easier than that for African males. Lots of young Chinese women are virgins, and live under the assumption that they will marry the first man who takes them.

    So if you have an African attitude toward sex and have sex with a virgin Chinese girl, she’s basically yours.

    It’s easier pickings for black men in China than just about anywhere else on earth. Now that I think of it, if I were a young African man I’d totally prefer a life in China to Africa. Not only will the women you seduce remain loyal, but they’ll work hard, too.

    One thing I saw in Beijing was that the Africans had a thing going with the Mongol girls for some time. Many of the Mongolian women were prostitutes pimped out to foreigners by Beijing cops. I guess it was easy for them to manipulate the Mongol girls because they probably didn’t have legal status. On the side, these girls had West African boyfriends. I know this because some of my acquaintances there were Liberians, and I once went on an escapade that taught me a thing or two about African attitudes toward sexuality (I don’t think it would be appropriate to relate the events on an academic’s blog, so suffice it so say I was pretty shocked by what I saw).

    Anyway, what eventually happened was that some of the Mongol girls got AIDS, and suddenly there was an anti-African pogrom in Ulaan Baator and all the Mongol girls dropped their African boyfriends. However, I may personally have had something to do with it, because having seen this trend when it started I told my British and American co-ethnics to stay away from Mongolian girls, because they were sleeping with Africans freely and might be infected with HIV. If I remember correctly, the intelligence I provided to my community came a while before the AIDS scandal in Ulaan Baator, and the loss of business was actually what motivated the Mongols to adjust their preferences.

    I’m actually kind of proud of that, because I might have saved some poor sap from being exposed to HIV. And I tell you, these poor British and American “experts” over there who couldn’t speak a lick of Chinese and had no idea what was going on were ruthlessly exploited by hookers and their pimps. So I went to bat for my boys, and I never earned a dime off it, I’m proud to say.

  17. Eventually, I discovered that in Chinese people’s minds, adopting Chinese language and culture has a big influence on their perceptions. So my guess is that Africans in China will integrate better than they can in Anglo countries.

    Similar things were once said about France. It’s all a matter of numbers. When the “Other” is normally different in terms of language, religion, and culture, there is an expectation that he will become like us simply by adopting the culture of his host society. In such a context, small numbers of Africans are seen as an interesting exception that proves the rule. They, too, can become just like us.

    It will be interesting to see whether the usual country of origin effects will be found among immigrants in China. Perhaps not.

    There is a perception that the Sino-African community has a higher crime rate, but this is typically blamed on their illegal status.

    “[Nigerians] are not coming here to commit crime, but if you do not allow them to do legitimate business, that will make them idle and what I know about Nigerians is that they don’t like to stay idle and so have to earn a living somehow.”

    http://thinkafricapress.com/migration/visa-problem-guangzhou-illegal-migration-traders

    there could be reasons for the Chinese, the elite ones that is, wanting black Africans in their county. One possibility is they think avoiding allegations of racism is essential.

    Seems like a counterproductive strategy. China now has to invest a lot of effort in covering up anti-African hostility:

    “Lan Shanshan, an assistant professor at Hong Kong’s Baptist University, claims state-owned newspapers have been instructed to report favorably on Africans in China. In 2012 The Guangming Daily ran a three-part special titled “Friends From Africa, How are You Doing in Guangzhou?” It presented a sanitized version of African life in Guangzhou. All the African migrants profiled were successful businessmen with valid documentation (a significant proportion of Africans in China have overstayed their visas). The story sought to quash claims of racial intolerance toward Africans in the country and emphasized Sino-African friendship.”

    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/7/africans-in-chinachinesemigrantsinafricachinaafricarelations.html

    This thing is also happening in India, albeit comparatively slowly

    The same thought has gone through my mind. India is closer to Africa. It’s also a safer and better place to live. So what is to stop large numbers of Africans from emigrating to India? I remember doing a Google search two years ago and finding nothing. I repeated the exercise just now and found several news stories. It looks like there are significant numbers of African immigrants in India:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/delhi-government-raid-african-immigrants-exposes-indians-racial-animosity-toward-blacks-1552901

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/racism-in-india-blamed-for-unrest-in-the-streets-as-african-migrants-claim-they-are-victims-of-discrimination-9085426.html

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-21826366

    Westerners love this sort of news story, for the wrong reasons. “You call us racists, but you’re no better!!” I hope the Indian government will act on this problem sooner rather than later.

    I don’t think those pro-African demonstrations are a case of pathological altruism, any more than support for gay rights or tranny rights. It’s more a matter of showing that you’re “modern,” and being pro-African or pro-gay is a sign of ideological modernity.

    they should rather worry about the fact that in Nigeria there have been already half as many births compared to china in the last year.

    We are in the early stages of a demographic tsunami. It’s incredible that there is so little discussion about what will inevitably happen in the near future.

    Because if immigration were to slow in the next 20 years, the remaining African population would just result in an absorption of their population into the dominant Han majority

    It won’t slow down. Once the numbers get beyond a certain level, immigration will feed on itself. It will accelerate. The time for controlling immigration is when the numbers are small and manageable. Unfortunately, a lot of people will say, “Why bother? What’s there to worry about?”

    That may have been the case before 2014, but recently the visa regulations became far stricter than before & they are enforced as well. So, unless they know someone they can bribe, the endless renewal of visas is not an option anymore.

    It’s still an option. Nothing has really changed. Visa renewal is very difficult in Guangzhou, but elsewhere it’s easier. It also helps to have a Chinese wife:

    “Many, like Ousagna, return to their wives’ provinces to renew their visas, to evade the capricious Guangzhou authorities. Others – such as Guinean trader Cellou, who has a one-year residence pass – say their country’s good political relationship with Beijing helps their visa applications.”

    http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1521076/afro-chinese-marriages-boom-guangzhou-will-it-be-til-death?page=all

  18. Bliss says:

    The chinese have been better for Africa so far than europeans.

    • Replies: @skep
  19. Bill P says:
    @Peter Frost

    There is a perception that the Sino-African community has a higher crime rate, but this is typically blamed on their illegal status.

    Pardon me, but this is the biggest load of bullsh*t. My African acquaintances with diplomatic status – and what could be more legal than that – openly committed felonies without a care in the world.

    Of course, being official “students” didn’t stop the Liberians I knew, either. All of them disappeared one day, leaving not a trace. I asked around and around about my friend Randall, even pressing the Mongol girls for answers, but something had scared them and they wouldn’t say a thing. After a few months, I learned that they’d been picked up in a joint US Treasury dept./Chinese federal police sting for being mules for counterfeit US Dollars made in Iran.

    There’s so much more to say about all this, but maybe this isn’t the place. I’d just come off as an unbelievable crank, even though it’s all true.

  20. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Bengali dude

    Furthermore, as millions of African men start marrying the increasingly rare Chinese women, there is much reason to fear Nien rebellion style uprisings on that part of the world.

    Why on earth would Chinese women want to marry black African men?

  21. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    “I liked the way he did business,” she says, of falling in love with her South African husband. “If I was married to a Chinese man, I could not be a strong woman like I
    am today. My husband is 11 years older and he teaches me.”

    I guess that “strong woman” is a politically correct way of saying that she does most of the work while her husband sits around doing very little.

  22. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @JayMan

    But the Chinese in Africa seem to be investing in and developing the continent’s various economies. I would imagine that African immigrants are less beneficial to China.

  23. Joe Walker says: • Website
    @Realist

    Particularly if those immigrants have high birth and crime rates. I wonder which Chinese city will become that nation’s first Detroit.

    • Replies: @Realist
  24. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Erik Sieven

    I imagine the “demographic refugia” for East Asians or Mongoloids would be remote areas of Siberia and eastern Russia, Tibet, diasporas in North America, etc.

    Note that demographic refugia like the Amish do depend on being within a larger benign social environment. It’s easy to imagine demographic change resulting in a decline in carrying capacity and wealth and the wider social environment no longer being so benign and the demographic refugia being attacked. This is basically what happened to white South African and Zimbabwean farmers and is still happening to the few remaining white farmers there:

    http://www.voanews.com/content/zimbabwe-agriculture-struggles-to-meet-demand-146851405/180415.html

    Zimbabwe was once southern Africa’s breadbasket.

    But today it is a basket case, where people depend on handouts for food.

    For more than 10 consecutive years since President Robert Mugabe’s government embarked on a land reform program targeting white farmers, Zimbabwe has had to import food to avert hunger as its new farmers cannot produce enough.

  25. bossel says:
    @Peter Frost

    It’s still an option. Nothing has really changed. Visa renewal is very difficult in Guangzhou, but elsewhere it’s easier.

    Not in my experience. I teach in a small town in Jilin province & it was the 1st time I had to provide a criminal record from my home country. But, anyway, that’s a different situation. I referred to tourist visas & for what I heard, the situation is pretty much the same everywhere: 1 renewal, then you have to leave China (at least for Hong Kong; if you’re lucky you get a new tourist visa there, but even that is getting harder).

    Last year I wanted to renew a tourist visa in Chongqing, so I could stay for a prolonged holiday. No chance. Had to go to Hong Kong. (But then again, I don’t even try to bribe anyone.)

    It also helps to have a Chinese wife:

    Now that’s a completely different situation. With a Chinese wife you easily get a residence permit (although you usually have to renew it every year). & that’s perfectly legal.

    @ Bill P

    So if you have an African attitude toward sex and have sex with a virgin Chinese girl, she’s basically yours.

    From what I have seen, that’s not the rule anymore. Actually, in many cases, once they lost their virginity they become quite promiscuous, just like many men are. (Hence the rampant jealousy in China.)

    @ Joe Walker

    I guess that “strong woman” is a politically correct way of saying that she does most of the work while her husband sits around doing very little.

    Nope, it’s probably a successful business woman (perhaps even older than 30). Such “strong” women seem to have a problem finding Chinese husbands, who prefer to be the provider. Although I heard from a friend that things are changing & some Chinese men now actually like successful women.

  26. Bliss says:

    In Africa it’s chinese men marrying african women. Going by the pics these men tend to be alpha types with movie star looks:

    http://tinyurl.com/kszd7wx

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  27. Cahokia says:

    East Asian countries, regardless of GDP, industrial development, or whatever, do not imitate the Euro-American model of immigration because they lack the domestic constituency for such demographic change. In particular, they lack significant Jewish minorities.

  28. The root of the problem of Africa’s population explosion and its overflow to other lands is Western medicine and funds. These two variables have neutralized the natural population controls that maintained a balance in Africa.

    • Replies: @skep
  29. Jefferson says:

    The Chinese have a Negro love fest, unlike Japan which does not. Basketball is the most popular sport in China and Black NBA players are seen as Gods in China. So I am not surprised that the Chinese government wants to darken their native Han population with Negro blood by adopting a very liberal immigration policy.

  30. Jefferson says:

    “One of the most stupid things China can do is allow immigration of low IQ populations.”

    The Chinese on average have a lower IQ than the Japanese, so I am not surprised the Chinese created an extremely retarded immigration system that will flood their nation with millions of Negroes.

  31. ogunsiron says:
    @Joe Walker

    That the lower IQ, more “ghetto” group among the chinese women would be into some pretty entrepreneurial and adventurous black men seems like totally implausible to you ? What about those chinese women who happen to be overweight ? An overweight chinese woman and a rich african trader may be a good match actually. He’d be into her for real and he might be her only chance to get married.

  32. @jayman
    “Hard to argue with that.” This legitimation will loose in power as soon as there are 20,30,100 million africans in china and still 1 or 2 million chinese in africa

    @troupr
    “She notes that a Chinese man would benefit equally from taking an African wife, but that is unheard of in Guangzhou.” human biological diversity trumps economic considerations. At least on the partner market, everywhere and anytime. People like money, but they like having a hormone rush so much more

  33. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    As a European, all I can say is this.
    Personally, I feel sorry for the Chinese if these reports are true, and an ethnicity as feckless as sub Saharan Africans are being imposed upon them for political reasons.
    But saying that, if African emigration to China somehow diverts Africans that would have come to Europe to a Chinese destination, then as a matter of pure self-interest, in these desperate times when we are governed by political fools, then I’m totally in favor of it.
    The more, the merrier.

  34. @ Frost
    “We are in the early stages of a demographic tsunami. It’s incredible that there is so little discussion about what will inevitably happen in the near future.”
    Mr Frost do you have any idea how to stay optimistic despite knowing this? Those things can really depress someone

  35. SFG says:

    Wow. So elites will sell out the native population in Asia as well as Europe and North America. Can’t say I’m surprised. Well, OK, maybe a little.

    My only question is, how is Svigor going to blame *this* one on the Jews? ;)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  36. rb says:
    @reiner Tor

    More like 1/1000%.

    If Africans in China start to behave the way they do in the West I can see a great deal of trouble ahead. And then there is the attitude of the Chinese in African to Africans!!

  37. spandrell says: • Website

    There’s something I don’t quite understand.

    So the Chinese state has gone globalist, so they’d rather keep making profits from African resources, than sacrifice money to defend their ethnic population at home.

    But why does, say, the Nigerian government care about Nigerians getting deported from China? If anything a Nigerian government minister is much more removed, from a much different class and even race, from a Nigerian commoner selling drugs in China, than a Chinese government official is from the rest of his nation.

    The Nigerians, Ghanians and all the rest of the African elite are making tons of money by selling resources to China; why would they risk that because of a bunch of prole Africans in China?

    You have a plausible argument about the Chinese elite being globalist and unconcerned about their ethnic brethren; but you don’t make much sense by assuming that African government will risk money to benefit Africans in China, who are mostly not even their co-ethnics.

    As long as China allows the friends and family of the African elite to have fun in China; the Chinese government should be able to deport its African population without any consequences to its business in Africa.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  38. Hacienda says:

    China will bring Africa civilization. Not saying Europeans aren’t civilized themselves, but what whites gave Africa was judgement and pain.

    Africans will enliven the leaden Chinese personality, just as they did the white personality. Not a small contribution.

    • Replies: @IA
    , @AnotherDad
  39. Is there much of a Jewish population in China?

    • Replies: @IA
  40. The big not-so-smart plan is mix all the races, including east asians, less ortodoxh, demographic core of….

  41. Realist says:
    @Joe Walker

    You would think the Chinese would see what happened to us and avoid it at all costs.

  42. @Joe Walker

    Why on earth would Chinese women want to marry black African men?

    In the case of the Chinese woman pictured in this article that seveeal commenters here have cited, it’s fairly obvious:

    http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1521076/afro-chinese-marriages-boom-guangzhou-will-it-be-til-death?page=all

    • Replies: @unit472
  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG

    The motivations regarding immigration policy between, say, the current Chinese leadership and leftist pro-immigration social activists in the US in the 1960s are quite different.

  44. Rich says:
    @Bill P

    You must have zero contact with the Chinese if you think they don’t see things in racial terms. The Han Chinese may be the most racist people on earth and look down on ALL other races. I once dated a Chinese girl here in the US and had to meet her a block away from her house because her parents would not allow her to date outside her race. Her sister was about to marry an Italian guy who her parents refused to meet, and that’s just one example. Study a little on the issue and you will be surprised what you find out.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    , @Anonymous
  45. @Bliss
    most of the pictures this google picture show african males marrying chinese women. Related: if you type in ” i have an asian boyfriend” or “i am into asian males” google autocorrects it so “i have an african boyfriend” or “i am into african males”

  46. Mass deportations are not necessary since the numbers of illegals are still fairly low (up to 100,000 in a Canton population of 12.7m, but probably much less, see link below

    According to a recent study (2014) by the Guangzhou Developmental Academy of Guangzhou University, there are now over 200,000 Africans in Guangzhou (http://paper.nandu.com/nis/201408/29/263065.html ).

    Yes, I read that post by Roberto Castillo. He, too, is on a visa and has to watch what he says and writes. Much of what he writes now on that topic contradicts what he had written earlier, particularly on the large number of visa overstayers.

    East Asian countries, regardless of GDP, industrial development, or whatever, do not imitate the Euro-American model of immigration

    East Asia has been slow to imitate the Euro-American model, although the same could be said about much of Europe. Once the elites convert to globalism, it’s just a matter of time. A key factor seems to be whether the elites are educated at American universities. South Korea’s elite is largely U.S.-educated and very pro-immigration and pro-multiculturalism. Japan’s elite is largely educated in Japan and still reluctant to get with the program.

    In particular, they lack significant Jewish minorities.

    How do you explain the case of South Korea?

    if African emigration to China somehow diverts Africans that would have come to Europe to a Chinese destination, then as a matter of pure self-interest, in these desperate times when we are governed by political fools, then I’m totally in favor of it.

    It wouldn’t make much difference. Once the demographic tsunami takes off, it won’t matter whether some of it is being diverted to East Asia. In fact, there’s some evidence that emigration tends to increase fertility in Africa (through remittances from expats). The fertility decline has reversed in Somalia, and that country now has a large diaspora in North America, Europe, and the Middle East.

    China is one of the few countries where the globalist consensus can be reversed. Look at the big picture.

    Mr Frost do you have any idea how to stay optimistic despite knowing this?

    I’m neither a pessimist nor an optimist. I am an actor on the stage of history, and I find that role more interesting than the role of being a spectator. It’s possible to change the future in many ways, by voting (if you live in Europe) or by speaking and writing (if you live in North America).

    how is Svigor going to blame *this* one on the Jews?

    I’m sure some people will find a way to blame the Jews.

    But why does, say, the Nigerian government care about Nigerians getting deported from China?

    Because emigrants are a source of remittances. For many Third World countries, remittances are a major contribution to their GNP. Also, while most of these African emigrants are poor, some are very rich and influential.

    • Replies: @Aaron
  47. Truth says:
    @Joe Walker

    Why on earth would Chinese women want to marry black African men?

    Well, the other option is a 5’2 displaced, western rice farmer who lost his family farm to the new highway and now makes 60 cents in hour in a factory where he cant leave for 6 days out of the week…IF of course his mother approves, and IF he is extroverted enough to approach you.

    You really should get out from in front of the TV.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @AnotherDad
  48. Bill P says:
    @Rich

    The Han Chinese may be the most racist people on earth and look down on ALL other races. I once dated a Chinese girl here in the US and had to meet her a block away from her house because her parents would not allow her to date outside her race.

    Eh, I was talking about China proper — not the US. Asians tend to pick up on American racial attitudes pretty quickly, not in the least part because when they first arrive without much money blacks are quite antagonistic toward them, so they learn to stay with their own. In other places – like SE Asia and much of Latin America – they are a lot more open to intermarriage.

    But even in the US, if you were to walk into a Chinese house speaking good Mandarin, politely remove your shoes, sit down to tea and then have a cup of baijiu with the old man over dinner eaten with chopsticks their attitude toward you would be markedly different. In their minds, you would even start to look less different. I’ve read anthropological studies that demonstrate that Chinese will clearly rate people who speak Chinese as more Chinese looking than those who don’t, and as I remarked above I experienced this myself (although I had no idea why at the time).

    • Replies: @IA
    , @Aaron
  49. IA says:
    @Bill P

    “Asians tend to pick up on American racial attitudes pretty quickly,”

    You mean the Chinese and other Asian countries have affirmative action, hate crime laws, forced integration, and racial quotas in academia, government, and private business? Where?

    Please show an instance where a politically incorrect Chinese has lost his job.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  50. @Peter Frost

    I don’t think those pro-African demonstrations are a case of pathological altruism, any more than support for gay rights or tranny rights. It’s more a matter of showing that you’re “modern,” and being pro-African or pro-gay is a sign of ideological modernity.

    That may well be the case for a many of these demonstrators, but definitely not all IMHO.

    I find it hard to believe why so many ambitious activists would want to invest so much time and energy on Africans, when campaigning for Muslims against “communalism” would be far more lucrative professionally.

    This is India after all….

    @Bliss

    The chinese have been better for Africa so far than europeans.

    Ethnic cleansing and racial massacre of Arabs in Zanzibar.
    Ethnic cleansing and looting of Indians in Uganda.
    Ritual murders and looting of Europeans in Zimbabwe/South Africa.

    You Africans have shown time and time again that you are unable and/or unwilling to live peaceably and honorably besides members of other races.

    When sizeable “community” of Africans develops in China, the deceptive admiration of the Chinese that many Africans show today will become a most murderous Sinophobia because of the “colonialism”, “exploitation”, “racism” and “discrimination” of the Han towards the can-never-be-racists Africans.

    Who knows, may be one day when a Chinese cop shoots an insubordinate and aggressive Nigerian cocaine dealer cum pimp in an act of self-defense, Africans will have their own Ferguson moment in Shanghai.

    @Hacienda

    China will bring Africa civilization.

    Given the temperamental difference between Africans and the Chinese AND the dynamics of immigration and redemptive Afrolatry as pointed out by Mr. Frost, the more likely scenario I see is Africans bringing abject barbarism to China.

    @Honorary Thief

    Is there much of a Jewish population in China?

    Yes, there is; and I am not talking the Kaifeng Jews.

    The Sassoon family made a fortune dealing in opium during the Opium Wars. There are today many Jewish businessmen living in Hong Kong; Jewish immigration to Hong Kong started during the British rule in Hong Kong.

    Chabad seems to be EVERYWHERE.

    Morris Cohen was an assistant to Sun Yat-sen and a general officer in the Kuomintang army.

    On the other hand, Israel Epstein was member of the CCP.

    Now apparently, Jews prefer living among “anti-Semites” just as Africans prefer living among “racists”.

    A sort of spiritual brotherhood, if you will.

    • Replies: @Bliss
  51. IA says:
    @Peter Frost

    ‘It’s more a matter of showing that you’re “modern,” and being pro-African or pro-gay is a sign of ideological modernity.’

    Or, to quote Aldous Huxley, People would rather be taken in adultery than provincialism.

  52. IA says:
    @Hacienda

    “Africans will enliven the leaden Chinese personality, just as they did the white personality.”

    Blacks are boring.

  53. @Hacienda

    Hacienda, your race pride\white hate–understood. But the utter cluelessness of some of the quips in your posts …

    what whites gave Africa was judgement and pain.

    Ok and uh … (just a sampler off the top of my head):
    — written alphabets
    — education \ literacy
    — Christianity (for all its faults a huge improvement on African religion)
    — buildings beyond mere hovels
    — paved roads
    — railroads
    — electric power
    — mathematics
    — science
    — maize (and access to a bunch of other American and Eurasian crops)
    — at least the idea of “rule of law” and republican government
    — modern (non-witch doctor) medicine

    and most obviously through the slave trade a *huge* and completely unearned demographic expansion into the Americas. *Unearned*–a demographic expansion that the Africans were (still are) completely incapable of creating themselves.

    Now that the Africans haven’t done much of anything positive with these tools–sure. But that’s the African’s “fault”–in their genes, culture both derived from eons in African geography–not white folks.

    Hey, i wish that Europeans hadn’t done all this–had just peaked into Africa and said “no thanks”. Then black Africa would still be a tribal backwater of the 100m or so at their Malthusian limit, the women scraping the dirt, the men fighting, raiding the neighboring villages for slaves, disease taking it’s toll … and the world much, much, much better off.

    But let’s at least acknowledge reality: Europeans blundered into Africa–exposing them to civilization which they utterly lacked–and Africans are the big winners. A disaster for the world, a big win for Africans.

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
  54. IA says:
    @Honorary Thief

    “Is there much of a Jewish population in China?”

    In the 30s there was a sizable population of european Jewish immigrants in Shanghai. Still some synagogue’s but all decamped after the war.

    There were a few families of rich Iraqi Jews, like the Sassoons, who’d been in Shanghai many years.

  55. Bill P says:
    @IA

    You mean the Chinese and other Asian countries have affirmative action, hate crime laws, forced integration, and racial quotas in academia, government, and private business? Where?

    Please show an instance where a politically incorrect Chinese has lost his job.

    -IA

    I was talking about Asians in America. Sorry if you missed it, but I thought that was clear enough from the context.

    • Replies: @IA
  56. Utter insanity.

    There is one huge “human population group”–i believe that’s the term of art?–that has neither created any significant civilization, nor shown any aptitude for maintaining it.

    And that group–probably for the same set of reasons–is the only one in the world that does not seem to be undergoing the demographic transition.

    The only sane, logical response from the rest of the world would be … *containment*.

    Make absolutely sure this population group overpopulating its own homeland doesn’t spread itself into your homeland. And yet this is what the world seems incapable of doing. Not lack of physical capability as this anti-civilization group is utterly unthreatening in military or economic capability. But simply for lack of common sense. Crazy.

  57. Carlos says:

    Lol at this article.

    I think a lot of the sentiment here is that, “Well since we ruined our own country to African immigration/Slavery maybe the Chinese and while we are at it the Russians and Iranians will ruin theirs with massive African immigration.”

    @Jayman

    “Indeed, when asked what entitles them to live in China, some will shoot back: “We are here because you are there!”

    This quote proves the point. I think many whites realize that they are losing the race to colonize Africa, so the response is then a sour grapes “Well, if you take their minerals, you need to take their people too.” I wouldn’t doubt if this quote was planted.

    If you see how many Americans are in Thailand or Mexico, does that mean we need to take in all the Mexicans and Thai in the world? People who stay in their native country are not obligated to do anything because of the actions of those who move elsewhere. That is a Western concept, not a Chinese one.

    There have been plenty of incidences of Chinese being looted or killed or raped in Africa, so I don’t think whole “Treat me like Travon Martin or else I will complain to the African Embasy at home” will work. Again, I think this is elite white people trying to do what they do best. Play divide and conquer, and think of ways to wreck China like they did America.

    As China grows and becomes more prosperous, why would they want to use Africans for cheap labor when they can use Cambodians or Phillipinos or people from Vietnam?

    My take is that Africans are breeding to a point that is out of control. And the natural destination for them is unfortunately Europe and not China. The Chinese will have some Africans who are traders and will increase the amount of money going into China. But they will not swamp China because China does not have socialism like Europe does.

    What makes you think an African will choose to work like a Chinese to scrape by, when he could go to Europe and live on welfare and bang blonde girls all day?

  58. Sean says:
    @Peter Frost

    Harm to others outweighs harm to self in moral decision making ” Our results provide evidence for a circumstance in which people care more for others than themselves. Determining the precise boundaries of this surprisingly prosocial disposition has implications for understanding human moral decision making and its disturbance in antisocial behavior”.

  59. IA says:
    @Bill P

    ‘Still, they insisted that I “looked Chinese.”’

    Bill, these same people didn’t want help with a visa application did they?

    • Replies: @Bill P
  60. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth

    Her children will be black though. Hypodescent seems to generally operate in relations between blacks and non-black groups.

    • Replies: @ogunsiron
  61. Bill P says:
    @IA

    Chinese don’t have the same attitude about race as Americans. It isn’t better or worse — it’s just different. For example, whether someone speaks English or not doesn’t change our perception of a person’s race. In China, this does make a difference, although of course it isn’t everything. Chineseness consists of a number of different qualities, and race is one, but not the only one. There is also language, culture, dress, food, etc. There are also different levels – or more accurately concentric layers – of Chineseness.

    A white American man like me will not ever get to the center of Chineseness, but I could break the outer barrier, and get close enough to function normally in society and not be seen as a total “outsider.” In effect, you can become something like half-Chinese. An American friend and neighbor of mine from Beijing did just that, and now lives there with his wife and daughters. He’s an actor who speaks very good Mandarin, and has no desire to return to the states. He’ll always be something of a foreigner, but his daughters will not. This is how the Chinese Empire expanded — not so much through conquest as assimilation of bordering tribes over generations. One thing that surprised me, and would surprise a lot of Americans, is how many white Americans (all men as far as I know) have settled down in China and, for all practical purposes, become Chinese. Some of them are in high levels of government, believe it or not. Having become pretty culturally proficient there, I was faced with this choice myself, and I rejected it.

    When you start displaying some Chinese characteristics such as speaking the language, Chinese perceive you as “less foreign.” Often, this means “part Chinese” to them. It’s a rational conclusion if one takes their concept of Chineseness into account.

    By the way, I have a deep affection for China and its culture. I really feel sentimental about the place sometimes — it’s seductive in a way. But there was something in me that just didn’t want to go all the way.

    • Replies: @Aaron
  62. You mean the Chinese and other Asian countries have affirmative action, hate crime laws, forced integration, and racial quotas in academia, government, and private business? Where?

    In the People’s Republic of China. Minorities are exempt from the one child policy and they also get preferential access to university:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China

    The Sassoon family made a fortune dealing in opium during the Opium Wars. There are today many Jewish businessmen living in Hong Kong

    I knew about the Sassoon family. They played a role in the Far East much like that of the Parsis in British India. So what’s your point?

    I’m not bothered by anti-Semitic comments because they might get me into trouble (they might, but that doesn’t seem to alarm many of my dear readers). I’m bothered because they have low explanatory power. If you look at the global business community today, you’ll find very little difference between Jews and non-Jews. Rupert Murdoch isn’t Jewish, yet he’s just as much a globalist nutcase as Mark Zuckerberg. And does Mark Zuckerberg push for immigration because he’s Jewish or because it’s good for his bottom line?

    Sean,

    That’s an interesting study, and it shows just how strong hyperaltruism is … in the study sample. Unfortunately, there’s no information on the ethnicity of the participants.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Bengali dude
  63. IA says:
    @Bill P

    I understood you to make an emphatic point that Chinese are corrupted by moving to the US. That they pick up on American racial attitudes but in China they are more open and accepting towards other races. You base this on experience in China. I never noticed this in the three years I lived there. Especially towards blacks. Like every Asian country I’ve been to, the Chinese fear, or more or less tolerate, whites because of our power and wealth. They despise blacks for a lack thereof.

    I asked you to give me examples of official behavior by Chinese authorities concerning race to prove your point. There may be a few prostitutes who will cater to blacks. But, in my experience, I saw no widespread interest in black attitude, fashion (i.e., butt-crack pants), music, etc., let alone marriage. I knew many white men married to Chinese women. But, the attitude of the Chinese to their “little emperors” is radically different to the casual child-rearing mindset of blacks.

    There are a few “human rights” agitators in China, lionized by an anti-white Western media and academia. However, to my knowledge they are non-persons in the state-controlled media. Chinese understand the dynamic of Eloi status-marking westerners and will exploit that weakness by mimicking western fake-victim group propaganda and aim it at the West. But, when it comes to their own neighborhood, as it is with western elites, they sing a far different tune.

    • Replies: @Bill P
  64. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rich

    The Chinese and East Asians have fairly normal, common sense racial views that were common in the US as recently as the 1950s. Before the 60s, “mixed marriages” were frowned upon, and “mixed marriages” most often referred to marriage between white Protestants and Catholics. It didn’t even generally refer to interracial marriage since that was largely unheard of.

    In my experience, Bill P is right that it isn’t very difficult for foreigners, especially white men, to get into the good graces of the Chinese or Japanese if you know and follow the more formal social etiquette rules that seems to govern personal interactions there. The more informal way we interact with and get to know strangers doesn’t seem to really fly there and can be off-putting.

  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Frost

    Is that because of Canada’s hate speech laws? Could you get in trouble even though The Unz Review is an American publication?

  66. Lot says:

    And does Mark Zuckerberg push for immigration

    Restrictionists need to divide silicon valley off from the NAM coalition by agreeing to more high-IQ immigration in return for stronger borders, and end to the diversity visa program, and mandatory e-verify.

    Trying to beat the silicon valley billionaires in politics, or anything else, is a fool’s errand. Better to try to co-opt them.

    We could also greatly reduce the number of asylum applicants in the USA by expanding the underfunded asylum application system. The large majority of asylum applications are rejected, but it can take more than five years for the process to occur, and you get to stay here while you wait. Some are detained during this process, but most are cut loose.

    Cut that to three years, and the number of illegal immigrants with pending asylum applicants goes down 40%, and perhaps more will be deterred. $15,000 to a coyote could be worth it if you know you can stay for 5 years, but 3 years may change the calculus to the point fewer people even try.

    A short process also means less time to have an anchor baby or figure out how to stay around when the inevitable rejection and deportation order comes through.

  67. Lot says:

    Before the 60s, “mixed marriages” were frowned upon, and “mixed marriages” most often referred to marriage between white Protestants and Catholics.

    While some people may have frowned, marriages between protestants and catholics were very common before 1960. To the extent they were not more common, it was because people married young from their own neighborhood. I bet something like half of German, Flemish, and English American Catholics married non-Catholics in the 40′s and 50′s. You’d generally adopt the church of whoever was more religious or influential family.

    Anti-catholic sentiment in the 20th century was mostly a Southern thing, where there were few Catholics, or an outgrowth of resentment of particular groups of immigrants like the Irish v. English in Boston or the urban beer-drinking German Catholics v the teetotaling rural Methodists in parts of the Midwest.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  68. Aaron says:
    @Bengali dude

    Have you actually spent time in China and dealt with lower class Chinese?

    If yes, then you are simply subordinating your real world perceptions to dogma. Its not uncommon for dogma to blind one to real life.

    Low class Chinese are not in the least passive or non-aggressive. In fact they are some of the most assertive, aggressive, even bellicose people I have met. I have dealt with “working class” (non-academic) and business minded Chinese extensively – angry outbursts, physical threats and sometimes actual aggression, extreme acts of self-assertion out of all proportion to the fairness of their demands, a tenacious pursuit of their narrowly understood self-interest with no attempt to reconcile competing claims under a framework of mutually beneficial fairness, and deceit, are extremely common.

    They are the most difficult and ornery people on the planet to deal with.

    The myth of the passive Chinese is based on comparing mild-mannered Chinese academic elites of the kind who come to America to study with American athletic jocks – a ludicrous comparison. Obviously the correct comparison is to similarly mild-mannered white academics. The influx of academic Chinese has given rise to a distorted picture, and the Chinese business community, which might help correct this view, have much less exposure to Americans as they mostly congregate in exclusionary ethnic enclaves.

    I would venture to say that today, whites are far less likely to assertively pursue their interests than Chinese if the comparison is made class by class.

    Africans can often be mild mannered and accommodating in an easy going charming way. In fact in pre-segregation South blacks were considered to have a talent for mild-mannered obsequiousness and were often sought after as servants and personal attendants for that reason. Black violence in America is made possible by a highly permissive white attitude and and even the encouragement of a sense of grievance by American institutions. If Africans detect a no nonsense attitude from Chinese police forces, they will be largely docile. African tendency for violence is very real but only flourishes in a permissive environment.

    As in America, Africans will largely get socially marginalized Chinese women whom few Chinese men, and at that at the absolute bottom of the social, would take. This will not create any sexual resentment on the Chinese side.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    , @Truth
  69. Aaron says:
    @Bill P

    Whites who speak Mandarin actually do “look” more Chinese. Appearance depends on facial expressions and muscle movements, which are radically different in Chinese, leading to a different “look”.

    I once saw in Thailand a white person speak perfect idiomatic Thai, and weirdly, it compromised his racial character in my eyes. He simply began to seem racially exotic and less “white” to me. Its a thing.

    Certain Asian languages involve muscle movements that if adopted can change dramatically affect your “look”.

    • Replies: @Truth
  70. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @spandrell

    It’s basic politics. African elites have an incentive to have African “boots on the ground” so to speak to leverage and use for their interests. Think about how black leaders like Al Sharpton depend on masses of black protestors and black discontent on the streets in order to maintain and further their political power and economically enrich themselves. It allows them to play good cop to their constituencies’ bad cop.

  71. Aaron says:
    @Bill P

    “By the way, I have a deep affection for China and its culture. I really feel sentimental about the place sometimes — it’s seductive in a way. But there was something in me that just didn’t want to go all the way.”

    This is an extremely common attitude in anyone who has spent a lot of time in Asia – although China is probably my least favorite country in the region. Its impossible not to feel the allure. In some important ways, their way of life has greater amenity than the west, although its a feeling that builds up over time. 19th century European writers noticed this effect and wrote about it.

    And yet there is some aspect of western identity that prevents full surrender to this civilizational beguilement.

  72. Bill P says:
    @IA

    I understood you to make an emphatic point that Chinese are corrupted by moving to the US. That they pick up on American racial attitudes but in China they are more open and accepting towards other races. You base this on experience in China. I never noticed this in the three years I lived there.

    I think you’re misinterpreting me when you suggest that I see American attitudes toward race as “corrupt.” They are different, but I don’t think they are any worse, or that Chinese sino-centric cultural imperialism as practiced for over 2,000 years is any better.

    I think traditional American racial attitudes are perfectly valid. I’d be living in a place more like Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic without them.

    But since you say that you never had my experiences with Chinese, I have to ask how well you speak the language, and whether you were acculturated, as I was (I stayed with a Chinese family for some time).

    I knew plenty of Americans and Brits who never really left their cultural sphere despite working for a couple years in China. It’s easy to do if they put you up in foreigner housing and pipe in CNN, and you can shop at Carrefour. I didn’t have that luxury. I was on my own, very young and without much money, so I had to make do largely with what the Chinese had access to. And besides, I really wanted to learn about Chinese culture.

    This doesn’t mean it was a walk in the park. Chinese could be major a-holes toward whites. Especially the low-end security, or “Bao An” as they are called. I had a few run-ins with them because I lived in technically non-foreign housing (the foreign apartments started at about $1,500 a month). Mainly, I think they wanted to enter my place to see if I had any porn or other forbidden goodies, so they could confiscate it and presumably enjoy themselves. No such luck for them. But with most people, as soon as I opened my mouth and spoke Chinese, the “foreigner” impression wore off pretty quickly and it was business as usual.

    • Replies: @IA
  73. Aaron says:
    @Peter Frost

    “In particular, they lack significant Jewish minorities.

    How do you explain the case of South Korea?”

    Indeed, one doesn’t have to go so far afield. Just look at Sweden and Norway. Almost no Jews.

    Apparently Jews have such tremendous power over the white psyche that they exert it over vast distances. Actual physical proximity not required.

    The implication of this view is, though hotly denied, obvious. It is not enough to rid white countries of Jews. Jews are capable of undermining the white psyche from anywhere. Physical proximity not need.

    The inescapable conclusion is that Jews cannot be allowed to exist anywhere.

    What always surprised me is that white nationalists – supposedly consumed with pride – prefer the emotional emollient of self-pity even at the cost of the undignified victim mentality this involves, something for which they do not hesitate to mock blacks who blame whites for their problems.

    As a (proud) white person, I reject self-pity. I find the view that whites have fatally undermined themselves far more supportive of my self-respect than that we are helpless pawns at the hands of some superior alien element whose powers of manipulation over us are apparently limitless.

    If I were Jewish, I would, paradoxically, be quite happy and pleased to accept the white nationalist view.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    They weren’t as common as they are today. Most of the mixing was among different Protestant or Catholic ethnic groups. Hence Protestant-Catholic marriages being described as “mixed marriage”. People are no longer very religious and religion is not an important aspect of identity or community. Protestant-Catholic marriages are no longer considered “mixed marriages” and mixing among whites from Protestant and Catholic backgrounds are common.

    There wasn’t a sizable Flemish or English Catholic population in the US.

  75. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Aaron

    Indeed, one doesn’t have to go so far afield. Just look at Sweden and Norway.

    The American/globalist influence argument is essentially the same argument. America influences foreigners and foreign countries into adopting globalism. Peter writes above:

    “East Asia has been slow to imitate the Euro-American model, although the same could be said about much of Europe. Once the elites convert to globalism, it’s just a matter of time. A key factor seems to be whether the elites are educated at American universities. South Korea’s elite is largely U.S.-educated and very pro-immigration and pro-multiculturalism. Japan’s elite is largely educated in Japan and still reluctant to get with the program.”

    The two arguments aren’t even inconsistent.

    It would seem that if one of the arguments is implausible on the grounds that cross-cultural influence is impossible, then the other argument should be implausible as well.

    • Replies: @Aaron
  76. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @spandrell

    The claim made by Marsh the South China Morning Post reporter about Chinese traders being deported from Kano in retaliation for stricter visa enforcement in Guangzhou is dubious–extremely likely she made it up based on an uninformed hunch but confidently asserted as fact.

    There is nothing from Google searching that establishes a link between the two. In fact Nigeria has a long history of tight immigration enforcement and has shut down Chinese merchant operations ever since Chinese have been migrated to Nigeria in large numbers.

    Reading Bodomo who says there are 500,000 Africans in China. It appears his methodology counts every African visitor who has been in China for 1+ day as a resident. That includes tourists or business people on a short visit to buy goods. Those guys aren’t residing in the country.

    Chinese immigration is not relaxed. University exchange students frequently get checked on in their homes. I have a hard time believing large numbers can evade the authorities.

    There probably are around only 16,000 Africans in Guangzhou, and this is probably the highest population count anywhere in China.

    This post is really sensationalist to say the least!

  77. Bill P says:
    @Aaron

    Low class Chinese are not in the least passive or non-aggressive. In fact they are some of the most assertive, aggressive, even bellicose people I have met. I have dealt with “working class” (non-academic) and business minded Chinese extensively – angry outbursts, physical threats and sometimes actual aggression, extreme acts of self-assertion out of all proportion to the fairness of their demands, a tenacious pursuit of their narrowly understood self-interest with no attempt to reconcile competing claims under a framework of mutually beneficial fairness, and deceit, are extremely common.

    They are the most difficult and ornery people on the planet to deal with.

    Ah that description brings back memories. Once, while at work, I was taking a break and looked out the balcony to watch a dispute between a couple Chinese street vendors. There was a middle-aged man and a youngish (30 something) Chinese woman going at it in front of a small crowd of enthusiastic onlookers.

    The woman, a well-built Chinese with those sturdy limbs you find in the working classes there, was holding a club by her side while she excoriated the man for encroaching on her territory. The man made appeals to fairness, and said she had no right to tell him where he could or couldn’t sell his wares.

    The woman’s resonse was this: “Do you want me to beat you with this club or without it?” The man took things into account and moved on to jeers from the crowd.

    I saw more street brutality in China than I’d seen anywhere else, and I haven’t seen anything like it since. The only time I ever saw someone get “glassed” was in a Beijing pub. I saw people lying in puddles of blood in alleyways. Beatdowns like you wouldn’t believe. People left for dead and all that.

    One of my American colleagues, an old son of a bitch (and I mean that in a good way) Korean War vet named Cliff, had a guy try to take his watch in an alley. This 70yo American actually fought the guy and threw him into a donkey cart and punched him a few times. Then, of course, the guy came back with a cleaver for revenge. Fortunately, Cliff got away. All I saw of it was the Jingdu pulling the criminal down the alley by his ear (yes, his ear).

    Americans have no clue.

    I actually stood up to some criminals once, and it’s a wonder I didn’t get knifed. Probably it was only because the gangsters didn’t want trouble with the higher level police, and I made such a scene of it shaming them in front of the crowd by making appeals to the Chinese sense of filial piety (my dad was visiting me at the time).

    • Replies: @Aaron
  78. unit472 says:
    @International Jew

    I saw this girl at the Florida arrests website.

    http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Jean_Atkinson_20993784/

    The two comments reflect my own thoughts.

    The reality is where population growth rates are higher than economic growth rates or, more ominously for much of Africa and the middle east, the carrying capacity of the land, emigration is the only option. The good news is, as the US has been forced to close embassies and consulates in many of these countries due to political problems, the ability of the locals to obtain visas to enter the US has been reduced though I note the State Department has agreed to resettle 70,000 Syrian refugees here which should create a community of several hundred thousand as their relatives and associates will follow them to the US.

  79. extremely likely she [Jenni Marsh] made it up based on an uninformed hunch but confidently asserted as fact.

    If you feel so strongly that she is lying, why don’t you contact her? You’re making a serious accusation, by the way.

    There probably are around only 16,000 Africans in Guangzhou

    No, that’s the number of Africans with resident status. It excludes those who regularly renew their visas (generally those with Chinese wives). More importantly, it excludes the large number of “overstayers” — those with no legal status.

    You seem unwilling to check all of the references I provide, so let me quote from them and from a few others:

    “The African community residing in Guangzhou is now the largest in Asia, which is presenting another set of problems for Chinese immigration agents: up to half of the Africans in the city are apparently there illegally, according to a study released by the Guangzhou Developmental Academy of Guangzhou University.

    The study, released last week, said Guangzhou is now home to more than 200,000 people from Africa, but up to half of them are sanfei foreigners or “three illegals”; that means they either illegally entered, are staying or working illegally in China.”

    http://thenanfang.com/guangzhou-home-to-largest-african-expat-population-in-asia-many-illegal/

    “Nigerians also travel, trade, and reside in China, and there are 100,000 West Africans
    in Hong Kong and Guangzhou.”

    http://www.iaabd.org/sites/default/files/Past%20Confrence/2008_IAABD_Proceedings.pdf#page=75

    “Over the past two decades, the People’s Republic of China has become a new and attractive destination for migrants from all over the world, including Africa. The city of Guangzhou, with its long history of international trade, has attracted between 200,000 and 500,000 Africans, primarily to do business.”

    http://kups.ub.uni-koeln.de/5782/

    “In 2009 about 50,000 registered foreigners are believed to have lived in Guangzhou, more
    than 20,000 of whom came from Africa. These figures do not include the illegally resident
    Africans, who are believed to account for a further 200,000.”

    http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-90-481-3417-5_10#page-1

  80. Aaron says:
    @Anonymous

    It doesn’t matter.

    If Jews have a unique ability to exploit supposed altruistic vulnurabilities in the white psyche – as the theory goes – then they can do some from anywhere. If Sweden cannot inoculate herself against the Jewish element in America, a country whose political and economic system she despises and has shown herself perfectly capable of resisting, then Sweden is hopeless.

    It seems in fact that Sweden does fine being resistant to to many of the most prominent aspects of American culture. And Sweden vastly exceeds America in precisely those liberal elements that supposedly depend on Jews to disseminate. So the supposed pupil exceeds the master.

    Let me get this straight. Liberal ideas depend on a “significant presence of Jews”. Yet the most liberal European countries are the ones with the least Jews. In fact in European countries there appears to be a strong correlation between the presence of Jews and less liberalism.

    Yep, an utterly coherent position. Quite compelling.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Stan D Mute
  81. Aaron says:
    @Bill P

    Lol, yep, Americans really have no clue.

    The mythology that has grown up in America about the Chinese depends on extremely selective contact with them. Its troubling how these superficial myths are asserted with mindless self-confidence, in an attempt to appear “knowing”.

    I do think Chinese aggression these days is partly conditioned by their recent history. But clearly they have it in them.

  82. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Aaron

    My point is that these sorts of “X causes/influences other countries to behave in a certain fashion” arguments are essentially, and if one form of them is implausible on the grounds that such influence is impossible, then all forms of this basic argument should be implausible as well

    • Replies: @Aaron
  83. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    I find it very hard to believe that a country of a billion people has a labor shortage. My suspicion is that Chinese business moguls find it psychologically easier to turn a pariah race into sweatshop workers instead of their own kind. Either that or the Chinese government is starting to crack down more often on the gross exploitation of the native Chinese, and businessmen are starting to get nervous about it.

    Don’t bother to worry about whether blacks interbreed with the Chinese. Everyone knows how that deal goes. The African-Chinese half-breeds will become the new Untouchable caste, and they’ll only be able to breed with each other. The pure-bred Chinese will become a new Brahmin caste looking down with horror and disgust on the half-breeds. The genetic pollution is only going to splash against the Great Wall and stay in its place.

    • Replies: @Truth
  84. IA says:
    @Bill P

    I wouldn’t make a big deal about learning the language, it’s the same everywhere, whether Italy or China.

    You had one perspective I had a different one. Both are valid.

  85. Aaron says:
    @Anonymous

    Of course countries influence each other. That goes without saying. Although I would say countries select those elements they like. Sweden had no problem rejecting American style capitalism.

    I’m merely saying in this specific case it defies belief that Jews, via America, influenced Sweden to become liberal. And if Jews are the world source of liberal ideas, and whites are uniquely susceptible to such ideas, then Jews are a danger anywhere they exist. That idea has some serious implications.

    It also defies belief that whites are uniquely susceptible to certain ideas – find them, for some reason, inherently appealing – yet needed an outside source to develop, even impose, these ideas on them.

    Europe, the worlds intellectual powerhouse, its most fertile source of ideas, failed to develop ideas that it had a unique predilection for.

    Does that seem likely?

    Liberal ideas were substantially developed by European thinkers by the time Jews became intellectually active. Jews helped develop and extend these ideas, in tandem with many European thinkers, and share in their victimizing effect.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @fnn
  86. argues that African immigration to China has a potential not only for further growth but also for growth of an exponential nature

    but the chinese, unlike modern westerners, have policy prescriptions which constrain exponential growth if they want.

  87. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Aaron

    Claims about specific influences certainly can be evaluated if one presupposes they could be possible in the first place. If one presupposes that they are not possible in general, then no such claims could be considered.

  88. Truth says:
    @Aaron

    Low class Chinese are not in the least passive or non-aggressive. In fact they are some of the most assertive, aggressive, even bellicose people I have met. I have dealt with “working class” (non-academic) and business minded Chinese extensively – angry outbursts, physical threats and sometimes actual aggression, extreme acts of self-assertion out of all proportion to the fairness of their demands, a tenacious pursuit of their narrowly understood self-interest with no attempt to reconcile competing claims under a framework of mutually beneficial fairness, and deceit, are extremely common.

    And that was just when the City Council voted to close the libraries an hour earlier.

  89. Truth says:
    @Aaron

    Whites who speak Mandarin actually do “look” more Chinese. Appearance depends on facial expressions and muscle movements, which are radically different in Chinese, leading to a different “look”.

    I once saw in Thailand a white person speak perfect idiomatic Thai, and weirdly, it compromised his racial character in my eyes. He simply began to seem racially exotic and less “white” to me. Its a thing.

    Goshdarnit! You guys have inspired me! I’m going to Spend a month studying “Stuffwhitepeoplelike.com”, start using 5 sylable words when a one-sylable woud suffice, buy some Ray Ban Wayfarers, and develop a taste for apricot-infused hefeweizen. I figure once I have all that down, I can attend the Amren confrence undetected.

  90. Truth says:
    @Anon

    The African-Chinese half-breeds will become the new Untouchable caste, and they’ll only be able to breed with each other

    Why would that happen when the Chineese are willing to breed with full-blooded, non Chinese speaking blacks now?

    “My suspicion is that Chinese business moguls find it psychologically easier to turn a pariah race into sweatshop workers instead of their own kind.”

    They haven’t seemed to struggle to hard with that over the past 40 years.

  91. @ Razib Khan
    if you mean the One Child Policy by that I can hardly imagine chinese authorities would dare to force African immigrants to abort babies. I guess the one child policy works for chinese (who would have a TFR of about 1-1.2 even without the one child policy) but not for African immigrants

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  92. @ Bill P
    well I have not that much experiences in China but when I saw Chinese who were angry at each other than it was this strange “pointing at each other” with outstretched arms, you probably know what I mean, it didn´t feel threatening. After being back in Germany from China I always have the feeling of much higher aggression on the street. The percentage of people ready to physical fight is so much higher in Germany.
    Also when you take a western who is in the 50% percentile of fighting ability in his home country he gets easily into the 90% percentile of fighting ability in China. By fighting ability I mean something like of you would put them in an MMA cage.

    • Replies: @bossel
    , @Bill P
    , @Anonymous
    , @Aaron
  93. fnn says:
    @Aaron

    Sweden had no problem rejecting American style capitalism.

    Sweden was never very socialist in terms of public ownership of enterprises.

    A Swede on Sweden’s radical shift after it became part of the American Empire in 1945:

    http://conswede.blogspot.com/2008/07/social-paradigms-shift-eg-our-view-on.html

    To illustrate what I talk about. Louis Armstrong visited Sweden in 1933. In all the news papers he was describe as something monkey-like let loose from the jungle. All across the line! And in the reviews by the most serious music critics.

    Who would have imagined in 1933, that twelve years later Western Europe would undergo an America-led cultural revolution which would lead to the common belief that there are no differences between races?

    Translation of two of the quotes:

    Knut Bäck in Göteborgs-Posten, November 1933:
    “This world is strange… No protests are raised against how the jungle is let loose into the society. Armstrong and his band are allowed to freely wreak destruction.”

    Sten Broman in Sydsvenskan, November 1933:
    “Dare I say that he at times had something monkey-like about him and sometimes reminded of, according to our perceptions, a mentally disturbed person, when he pouted with his mouth or gaped it to its widest open and roared like a hoarse animal from a primeval forest.”

    The third quote compares the concert with a natural disaster, and Armstrong’s trumpet with a hell machine. The only good thing coming out of it, he says, is that it solves to old dispute of whether monkeys have a language.

    This is what Europe looked like, up until 1945. And since some people will live under the misconception that this was a phenomenon of the ’30s, I here provide a quote from the Swedish Encyclopedia, Nordisk Familjebok, the 1876-1899 edition (here and here).

    “Psychologically the negro can be said be on the level of a child, with vivid fantasy, lack of endurance, … can be said to lack morality rather than being immoral … etc.”

    Even though the point here has been to illustrate how social paradigms can shift completely in short time (and this is just one out of numerous examples), let me add how up until 1945 all the focus was put on the differences between races, and after that all the focus has been put on what is equal (while ignoring differences).

  94. Europe, the worlds intellectual powerhouse, its most fertile source of ideas, failed to develop ideas that it had a unique predilection for. Does that seem likely?

    Northwest European societies have long had a tendency toward individualism and moral universalism, so what is playing out now is, to some degree, inevitable. That being said, we are intelligent beings, we can understand what is happening, and we can respond accordingly.

    We are not responding, however. There are three reasons why:

    - the United States has become culturally and ideologically dominant in Europe and, increasingly, in East Asia. Antiracism, which originally developed in the U.S. as part of the struggle against slavery, is now being exported to other cultural contexts. Swedes feel guilty toward Somali immigrants because blacks were once enslaved in the American South. It sounds weird, but that’s the ideological trajectory we are all following.

    - in a mature economy, like those of North America and Western Europe, the only way to get high rates of return is through globalism, i.e., outsourcing jobs to low-wage countries and insourcing low-wage labor. Most of the business class has a vested interest in this two-way movement, and they are lobbying hard for it.

    - the rise of Nazism in the 1930s triggered, in the Western world, a revival of the war on racism that has not subsided. In fact, it has grown more and more important. One reason was the context of the Cold War, when the two superpowers were vying for influence in the Third World, with each side trying to prove it was the greater antiracist. With the end of the Cold War, antiracism has become an ideological underpinning for globalism.

    For all these reasons, antiracism has assumed an unreal ideological dominance throughout the Western World, particularly among the educated elites.

    but the chinese, unlike modern westerners, have policy prescriptions which constrain exponential growth if they want.

    I assume you’re referring to the one child policy. For some reason, it doesn’t seem to apply to African immigrants or even their Chinese wives. If you scroll down in the article below, you’ll see a photo of a Guinean trader with three children:

    http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/1521076/afro-chinese-marriages-boom-guangzhou-will-it-be-til-death?page=all

    His wife is Chinese and his children are Chinese citizens, yet they seem to be exempt from the one child policy. I know that this policy has been relaxed in recent years and that it’s easier to have a second child. But three?

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    , @Aaron
  95. Erik : “The idea is: All countries for Subsaharaan Africans (especially West Africans)”
    Having just struggled through most of another Scottish winter (very dark, seemingly interminable, destructively windy and very, very wet when it periodically unfreezes ; not a joyous, crisp, clean and snowy sort of winter like North America, or Russia) with the aid of dietary supplement tabs, a couple of tons of coal and the electric miraculously staying on this year after the mass grid repairs of 2012, I sincerely doubt anyone in their right mind would, or even could permanently settle here without a full-blown advanced industrial economy and welfare state picking up the pieces in perpetuity.

    I’m ginger, and the color of yogurt, taught with some fierceness to never wear gloves, from infancy (cardiovascular shunts, although nobody knew that was why at the time, chilblains were a fact of life), and was raised to live this way, one open coal fire, no heating or insulation, one bath a week, outside toilet, kerosene lamps, whisky .. and suicide (SAD. a.k.a “morbus orcadensis“), and I struggle.
    God knows what it’s like for say a Somali stuck on the dole in a tower-block in Glasgow. Pray to Allah that North Sea gas keeps flowing? If Ramadan doesn’t finish them off first. You need about 5000 calories a day just to stop your teeth and hair falling out in this weather, and if most of them aren’t coming from fossil fuel, well ..
    Same goes for all the “refugees” currently causing the Swedes a bit of a headache. They have literally no idea what life was like there, even as late as WW2. “Harsh” doesn’t really do it justice.

    Looks like China it will have to be then. Africans of any sort would no more consider emigrating to a non-First World Sweden or even UK than they would settling in rural Lithuania, or Kazakhstan.

    Maybe Patagonians, Tibetans, Tlingit or Western Norwegians will suddenly develop a taste for lebensraum, but I feel remarkably unthreatened by tropical hordes, or even Afghans and the like. Just genuinely sorry for them, allowing themselves to be conned into getting trapped on a freezing damp sea-rock, where the sun appears for one week in June in a good year. If Western Civ. tanks (even a tiny little bit), they’re dogmeat. No grandkids due to rickets, trench foot, frostbite, scurvy, pneumonia etc., .. if the natives don’t eat them/cut them up for bait first.
    The day our welfare state’s world-famous magic money-tree sheds its foliage, the whole shooting-match will simply pack up and leave. It’s the only reason they came in the first place.

  96. skep says:
    @Bliss

    What do you mean exactly? narrative or reality?
    French and English colonization of Africa has been more costly than economically beneficial. And one of the most important act of both English and French authorities was eradication of slavery and peculiarly the destruction of the slave states of Tippo Tip, El hadj Omar,…Was it a good thing? It is questionable…

  97. skep says:
    @Avi Marranazo

    I agree; What could happen with the next global economic collapse? African nations never faced successfully the tsetse flies nor mosquitoes by their own; without the widespread use of pesticide supplied by western or eastern companies, what will happen?

  98. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Peter, I met you on a nat geo trip to MP in late November. I remain very interested in your current explorations in the area that you discussed. I tried to go on peterfrost.org but it was not letting me on. Is there some site that I can get to that discusses your past and current explorations and also the possibility of helping to fund these efforts. Thanks. Walt Klenz

  99. Walt,

    You’re confusing me with another anthropologist, who has the same name as mine. From time to time, I get emails and letters that are intended for him.

    If you want to know about my past work, you can consult my list of publications. Go to the top of my column, click “Peter Frost Columns” and then click “Publications”. You can also go to my old website:

    http://pages.globetrotter.net/peter_frost61z/home.htm

    I used to have a Wiki page, but it was deleted last July (almost immediately after I started posting at The Unz Review). The reasons for the deletion are given at:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Peter_Frost_(anthropologist)

  100. bossel says:
    @Erik Sieven

    The percentage of people ready to physical fight is so much higher in Germany.

    Don’t know where you live in Germany, but to me that sounds like utter nonsense. In 10 years China I have seen more street fights than in 30 years in Germany.

    @ Peter Frost

    His wife is Chinese and his children are Chinese citizens, yet they seem to be exempt from the one child policy. I know that this policy has been relaxed in recent years and that it’s easier to have a second child. But three?

    If one spouse is foreigner the one-child policy usually does not apply, for what I know.
    Anyway, the application of the policy varies in China. In Canton (province) it seems to be much more relaxed than in the North. When I taught in Canton almost all of my students had siblings, in Beijing the situation was reversed.

    I understood Razib more in the sense of immigration policy. The PRC seems to lack the asylum laws Western countries usually have.

    @ Bill P

    This is how the Chinese Empire expanded — not so much through conquest as assimilation of bordering tribes over generations.

    This is more Chinese propaganda than anything else. “Chinese” expansion was usually far from peaceful.

  101. @Bliss

    Judging by the child in this picture from the link you posted, some adventurous Chinese will pass up Africans for platypodes (platypi/platypuses).

  102. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Erik Sieven

    Yes it would be difficult, considering that the West still has a lot of power and promotes anti-majoritarian politics and minority interests worldwide, and especially since blacks/Africans have a lot of moral influence in the West and hold high moral status in the West.

    Currently there is ethnic conflict in Burma between the Burmese Buddhist majority and the Rohingya Muslim minority. The Burmese Buddhist majority feel threatened by the perceived demographic expansion of the more polygynous and rapidly breeding Rohingya:

    http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/2child-limit-in-rohingya-towns/article4752431.ece

    Authorities in Myanmar’s western Rakhine State have introduced a two-child limit for Muslim Rohingya families after a spate of deadly violence between Muslims and Buddhists, an official said on Saturday.

    Local officials said the new measure — part of a policy that will also ban polygamy — will be applied to two Rakhine townships that border Bangladesh and have the highest Muslim populations in the State. The townships, Buthidaung and Maungdaw, are about 95 per cent Muslim.

    The measure was enacted a week ago after a government-appointed commission investigating the violence issued proposals to ease tensions, which included family planning programmes to stem population growth among minority Muslims, said Rakhine State spokesman Win Myaing. The commission also recommended doubling the number of security forces in the volatile region.

    “The population growth of Rohingya Muslims is 10 times higher than that of the Rakhine [Buddhists],” Mr. Win Myaing said. “Overpopulation is one of the causes of tension.”

    http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21565638-why-buddhists-and-muslims-rakhine-state-myanmar-are-each-others%E2%80%99-throats-unforgiving

    Shwe Maung, of a Rakhine political party, says “they are trying to Islamise us through their terrible birth rate.”

    The West sides with the Rohingya due to its general anti-majoritarian, pro-minority stance, and due to its current fashion for supporting Muslim minorities. A similar situation involving black/African minorities rather than Muslim ones would elicit even more support from the West.

  103. @Truth

    Well, the other option is a 5’2 displaced, western rice farmer who lost his family farm to the new highway and now makes 60 cents in hour …

    Truth, i don’t think you’re clued in on Chinese demographics. Because of the one child policy interacting with Chinese culture there’s a *huge* sex disparity among the Chinese young.

    This will mean it is quite easy for (average and below) Chinese women to find a “better quality” husband relative to their own social class and appearance.

    If a Chinese woman is marrying an African one assumes its for the same reason as in the US. Blacks bring more “bad boy” “game”, more muscle mass to the table. In the typical cad vs. dad binary, they are good cads, crappy dads. And the dumber women, more hormonally driven respond to that rather than thinking longer term.

    My rough guess is that the Chinese having evolved to the far end of the r\K spectrum, Chinese women are less receptive to following immediate hormonal impulse than white women. However, the flip side is that having evolved to the far end of this spectrum Chinese men generally have terrible “game” and “manliness”, so the contrast African men bring is even more striking.

    In short–sort of in broad analogy to the current exploitation of Western Christian openness and altruism–pushing toward K selection is great for civilized people *in* civilization by themselves, but exposes them to danger when faced by less civilized barbarians.

  104. Bliss says:
    @Bengali dude

    Now apparently, Jews prefer living among “anti-Semites” just as Africans prefer living among “racists”.

    Coming from a bengali dude your racial pretentiousness comes across as laughably pathetic. Look in the mirror and see how stupid and silly you look.

    What do you think of your Rohingya brothers preferring to live in Burma where they are hated far worse than jews and africans are anywhere?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  105. Bill P says:
    @Erik Sieven

    well I have not that much experiences in China but when I saw Chinese who were angry at each other than it was this strange “pointing at each other” with outstretched arms, you probably know what I mean, it didn´t feel threatening. After being back in Germany from China I always have the feeling of much higher aggression on the street. The percentage of people ready to physical fight is so much higher in Germany.
    Also when you take a western who is in the 50% percentile of fighting ability in his home country he gets easily into the 90% percentile of fighting ability in China. By fighting ability I mean something like of you would put them in an MMA cage.

    That pointing and hollering isn’t fighting — it’s just how people talk to each other over there half the time. When they fight, it’s more like that scene from 2001, A Space Odyssey with the hominids with bone clubs. They use improvised weapons, knives, clubs, bricks, bottles — you name it. And they attack in groups. The western one-on-one fistfight doesn’t seem to be a popular manner of physical combat, although it does happen sometimes.

  106. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:
    @JayMan

    “We are here because you are there!”

    But Chinese are over there to work and build, not to settle permanently.

    It seems like blacks are coming to China to live there permanently. Big difference.

  107. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:

    During the Cold War, Maoist China upheld the myth that People of Color of the World were united against ‘racist’ white imperialism. This myth is still officially upheld in China.
    Though China isn’t PC like we are about race, the official mythology of People of Color of the world united as one is the prevailing official ideology of China.

    • Replies: @Bliss
    , @Anonymous
  108. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:
    @Peter Frost

    “For all these reasons, antiracism has assumed an unreal ideological dominance throughout the Western World, particularly among the educated elites.”

    I don’t think it’s that simple. After all, Western anti-’racism’ is very selective. If ‘anti-racism’ were the main overriding ideology of White America, how come Americans feel much ‘guilt’ about blacks and Jews but none regarding Palestinians(whose ethnic cleansing was aided and abetted by white nations)and Muslims and Arabs whose lands have been devastated by Western intervention? How come slavery is called the ‘original sin’ of America when surely the conquest and ‘genocide’ of Indians should come first?

    How come it’s permissible for Hollywood to make movies that play on ‘muzzie’ fears and ‘yellow peril’–all those North Korean villains–, but it would never make a movie with Jewish or Zionist villains? How come the cultural establishment attacks Birth of a Nation the movie but isn’t bothered by a movie like TAKEN where Muslim sex slavers capture and enslave a pure white girl? How come there was much fuss about Apartheid in South Africa, but there’s so much silence about the ongoing oppression of Palestinians?

    How come Americans overwhelmingly say they’ll say vote for a Jewish or black president but most will say they will not vote for a Muslim or Asian candidate simply on the basis of religion or race? So, Americans are now ‘less racist’ toward Jews and blacks, but it’s still deemed okay for them to disregard Muslims and Asians as secondary Americans. And of course, there’s so much hatred against Russians even after the fall of communism. And it’s okay for guys like Adelson to say Iran should be nuked. Yet, he gets away with such talk. So much for universal ‘anti-racism’.

    Since Asians are conformist and unoriginal and take ideas from other nations, Asian elites(many of whom study in the West or study from Western texts) will just parrot what they hear from Western media and academia.

  109. Bliss says:
    @Priss Factor

    The chinese haven’t forgotten the humiliations inflicted on them by european imperialists.

  110. @Another Dad
    “K strategist” guys – even if the theory of r/k selection is wrong, the distinction works – could still win against r strategist guys, but only if they use their higher average iq and better ability to cooperate to build up armies, borders etc.
    But this is of course a risky situation. You always have to keep up attention and constantly work on defense. One generation of lunatics and everything is lost. Which is exactly what is happening right now.

    @Anonymous
    This Burma story is so typical. Western media gave attention to the protests of the Buddhists because after all they found at least one example where non Muslims threaten Muslims, as opposed to basically every other country on earth. But looking into this story one sees that it is the same old situation like everywhere else. Muslims expanding, everybody else losing.

  111. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bliss

    The Rohingya were brought there by the British Raj.

  112. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    You’re thinking of Maoist “Three Worlds Theory”:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Worlds_Theory

    It’s a revision of the original three worlds conception and replaces the 1st world with the US and the USSR, the 2nd world with the lesser powers like Europe and Japan, the 3rd world with China and the rest.

  113. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Erik Sieven

    I think I know what you mean. After the initial exoticness of the environment that can be striking and unnerving, there’s less of a palpable tension and feeling of threats and violence out in public. It may have to do with lower pheromones. They say East Asians have fewer sweat glands that produce body odor. On the other hand, blacks tend to have a strong and distinct body odor, and it’s quite noticeable in black areas of major cities in the US that are considered dangerous. It could be greater levels of pheromones contributing to the greater sense of danger feel in these areas.

  114. Aaron says:
    @Peter Frost

    There is a long history beginning in the Renaissance of Europeans admiring non-white cultures and depicting themselves in an unflattering light as compared to non-whites. Rationalist ideals developed in Europe, which favor objectivity, encourage this, because an easy (if admittedly specious) way to demonstrate your objective rationality is to resist the natural, but emotion-based, tendency to view your group as best, and admire other groups. Probably the fact that Europe derived its intellectual culture from Greece and Rome, and its religion from the Middle East, contributed to this tendency to admire foreigners as well. Writers like Montaigne and Montesqiue cultivated the art of finding great merit in foreign cultures and promoting an “objective” (non nationalistic) attitude towards European culture. A more modern example is George Orwell, whose novel Burmese days compares whites – as a race – most unfavorably to the Burmese. This is a major theme in European thought beginning, perhaps, with Montaigne. I have lost count of the number of early works on Asia by Europeans I have read which pretty much describe Asians as vastly preferable to whites (although not, interestingly, in terms of intelligence. Asians were generally considered equal to whites in most ways, but no one seems to have noticed their intellectual superiority until after WW2).

    No other culture evolved an attitude even remotely as xenophilic as Europe. China not once entertained the possibility that they are anything less than the most stupendous people on Earth. The same can be said for any random tribe in Africa.

    A contributing factor is the rise in the 19th century of pessimistic writers and thinkers who despised Europe and lusted after the exotic, chiefly in France, but very soon in Germany, and everywhere else as well. Pessimism, a sense of exhaustion and weariness with Europe, became widespread after the second half of the 19th century. Examples include Flaubert and any number of French Decadents.

    This has no parallel in any foreign culture. Every other culture celebrates themselves.

    A third factor is the cult of the Noble Savage, extremely powerful in the west to this day (as seen in Paleo diets), which undermined confidence in the highly civilized life of Europe, although perhaps that can be seen as an eccentric offshoot of xenophilia.

    Finally, European attitudes towards their own civilization can be deduced from the countless numbers of European adventurers who sought refuge in exotic climes, such as Captain Sir Richard Burton, who frankly proclaimed his weariness with Europe, or Rimbaud, who gave up a promising career in poetry to escape contact with white people, whom he evidently found insupportable, and ended his days as a tawdry gunrunner in Ethiopia, a fate he seems to have found infinitely preferable to life in Paris.

    There is simply no analogue of this among, say, the Chinese, who have always found the company of their own kind perfectly satisfactory, and who love their civilization. China has economic migrants, not cultural or racial migrants, as the west has.

    So we have 1) Extreme xenophilia, possibly historically conditioned by Europe’s Greek, Roman, and Christian heritage 2) Extreme rationality and objectivity, which as a social pose – as all popular intellectual fads eventually become – favors extravagant displays of one’s “objectivity” – i.e complete indifference to sentimental attachment to one’s group 3) 19th century disgust with European civilization, as expressed by Flaubert, etc. 4) Extreme pessimism, as expressed by Schopenhauer and Spengler, etc, bemoaning European decline and forecasting further decline 5) A cult glamorizing primitive people against European sophistication, sapping faith in the value of European civilization, and 6) the evidence of the countless Europeans who seem to have the company of their own race impossible to endure and sought out exotic climes and races.

    The British were the first to abolish slavery, which persisted in America for many decades, and Europeans were known to be far more favorable towards blacks. American anti-racism lagged behind Europe, not the other way around. Antiracism in its embryonic form has clear roots in shared elements of European culture.

    By the time the Jews showed up with their “Frankfurt School”, they were joining a party where the revelers were drunk for some time. Jewish originality is vastly overrated. Jews tend to develop and extend European ideas that already existed in robust form and were well on their way towards further elaboration by whites.

    • Replies: @Aaron
  115. Aaron says:
    @Aaron

    I realize, of course, that you aren’t blaming the Jews, but rather, it seems, America.

    But the Europeans were merely developing clear trends within their own culture, trends shared with America, and often influenced America towards antiracism.

    I love European culture, but there is a rotten core within it, probably a noxious fusion of Enlightenment “objectivity” (objectivity is bad for humans) with the moral basis of Christianity, which is guilt. A specious objectivity (which undermines emotional motivations) fettered to guilt no longer balanced by pride of religion (pride of religion balanced the submissive element in Christianity and was the basis for its aggressive, warlike tendencies).

    That’s the European disease, shared by America.

    • Replies: @IA
  116. Aaron says:
    @Erik Sieven

    No need to be defensive. I never said the Chinese are more capable fighters than your average German. Rather the opposite – the Chinese are clearly inferior athletically. But they are aggressive.

    You must have time traveled to 1930s Germany.

  117. ogunsiron says:
    @Anonymous

    I think that in most cases the offsprings of arab men and black women are arabs. I can think of a few Saudi princes who seem to be the result of such a crossing. Assuming hypodescent is being inappropriately usa centric.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  118. map says:

    Look, these breathless accounts of East Asia are all of the same piece, whether its is hand-wringing over Japan’s lack of immigration or celebrating African diversity in China. It is just some weird projection manifested by Western media outlets.

    No, I’d like to ask a simple question:

    What ever happened to Tibet?

    Has anyone else noticed how Tibet appears to be nowhere in the news? I remember when the plight of the Tibetans was a massive issue. So what happened to all of the coverage?

    Well, China got rid of them. They simply moved in tens of millions of Chinese and displaced the Tibetans, scattering them all over China. Hence, we no longer hear anything about Tibet.

    Does anyone think that such a people are going to allow Africans to simply take over China. I really doubt that.

    I see a lot of displaced Africans in Africa’s future.

  119. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @ogunsiron

    The Arabs tended to castrate blacks and most of the mixing was between Arab men and black concubines. The offspring weren’t as stigmatized as pure blacks were or as the offspring of black men and Arab women would have been, but they didn’t necessarily enjoy the same status as Arabs.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/opinion/will-iraqi-blacks-win-justice.html

    Jalal Dhiyab Thijeel was tall, funny and handsome, qualities that should have made him a popular man in Basra, Iraq, where he lived. But he was also black, one of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who have been pushed to the margins of society based on their skin color.

    In 2003, inspired by the opening of Iraqi society after the American invasion and, later, by the success of Barack Obama in overcoming his own country’s history of racism, Jalal began to push for anti-discrimination laws in Iraq. For his audacity, Jalal was assassinated last year in Basra.

    Most estimates show there are about 400,000 Iraqis who trace their origins back to sub-Saharan Africa, most of them living in the south around Basra, though a few push the count as high as two million. There are few written accounts of their early history in the country, though what records do exist show that the first of them arrived in what is now Iraq as slaves as early as the seventh century.

    Just as blacks did much later in the United States, blacks in Mesopotamia worked in wealthy homes and in backbreaking agricultural work, including clearing marshland. A series of slave uprisings rocked the region from 869 to 883, but were eventually quelled.

    Trading in African slaves — brought from Zanzibar on the Indian Ocean and as far west as Ghana on the Atlantic — continued into the 1920s, when it was finally banned.

    But as in America, abolition did not mean an end to discrimination. While a number of laws promise equality, anti-black racism in Iraq pervades everything from housing to jobs to cultural life. Blacks in Iraq are routinely called “abd,” meaning “slave.” They mostly hold menial or low-level jobs.

  120. I realize, of course, that you aren’t blaming the Jews, but rather, it seems, America.

    Please, I’m not interested in blaming anyone, be it the Jews or America. Within Northwest European cultures, there has long been a tendency toward moral universalism, individualism, and the market economy, all of which, by their very nature, tend to dissolve older, kinship-based ways of organizing society: the family, the ethny, the nation, etc. So in whatever alternate historical reality, we would probably be facing a situation similar to the one we’re facing now.

    That being said, the situation is especially dire because of the dominance of the United States. The United States is exporting its feelings of guilt over whiteness — bordering on self-hate — to the rest of the European world. The Irish, the British, the French, and the Swedes are coming to view themselves in the same way that White Americans view themselves — with guilt and self-hate. It’s weird, and it would be comical if the consequences weren’t so serious.

    An ideology doesn’t come with an off switch. I’ve written about the role of Jewish scholars in reviving antiracism during the 1930s — the war on racism was seen as part of the war on Hitler. In time, however, it acquired a momentum of its own, similar to that of a religion. While different interest groups support antiracism and benefit from it, no single group has the power to turn it off. It can, in fact, devour its own creators.

    This is where I disagree with certain commenters who love to point their fingers and say: “Look, the Jews control this and the Jews control that! Uh huh. And what about the non-Jews who control this and the non-Jews who control that? In what way is Rupert Murdoch different? In what way are the Koch brothers different? In what way are a lot of other non-Jewish people different? The problem we face is profoundly ideological and systemic.

    • Replies: @Aaron
  121. Carlos says:

    Looks like Unz censored my response that was critical of Peter Frost and his political correctness on Jews.

    Sorry to find this site was not what it bills itself as.

  122. Sean says:

    Jay, they are let in because there are lots dissatisfied young men in polygynous Africa. And the government of China is not interested in what is good for ordinary Chinese or what they want.

    Peter, likely Chinese are not hyperaltruistic (or hyper empathic), yet they’re going to some trouble to be nice to foreigners, and I can’t quite see why “It presented a sanitized version of African life in Guangzhou”. China is all over the globe for resources, but it can cut increasingly good deals with Russia. The country that had an official forced abortion population policy is quite capable of calculating that importing black Africans might one day help keep them in power. Ethnic homogeneity in economically booming cities may be threatening, if you are elites worrying about the basis for a popular political movement. the elite don’t have to worry about African competing with them in any respect. That said they may be just trying to copy America, which trumpets diversity as the recipe for success. The Chinese can put odd twists on all kinds of foreign ideas with surprising alacrity. Christianity (Taiping Rebellion) and Marxism both fomented huge rebellions.

    “The problem we face is profoundly ideological and systemic”. It is having the desired result for those who run it. Nothing succeeds like success.

    In the War of 1812 the US sneakily attacked the United Kingdom while we were at war with France, only for France to drop out and the US to find themselves fighting alone against the United Kingdom. The economic system altered profoundly after Great Britain and Ireland gave the USA a justly punitive retribution for their temerity. Anyway that was the beginning of the tariff system which the US (apart from the South) used to transform their country well into the 20th century.

    Something really bad has to happen before an elite decides there needs to be changes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  123. Peter Frost says: • Website

    Looks like Unz censored my response that was critical of Peter Frost and his political correctness on Jews.

    Unz didn’t censor it. I did. I’ve deleted 28 comments so far. Two of them were a shouting match between two commenters. Two or three others seemed to be redundant comments from the same person. The rest were about Jews, Jews, Jews.

    I don’t enjoy having to toilet-train my commenters. Please, if you feel an anti-Semitic bowel movement coming on, go to Stormfront. Don’t poop on my column.

    • Replies: @peterike
  124. peterike says:
    @Peter Frost

    The rest were about Jews, Jews, Jews.

    Well my comment was a factual response to Aaron who seems to feel the Jews have no influence in Nordic nations. I showed him that, in fact, they own and control most of the media there. I guess that’s considered too much noticing.

  125. peterike,

    It was off-topic and only partly true. Some of the media in Sweden are owned by a Jewish family. Others aren’t (notably the State-controlled outlets). More to the point, there is no difference in content between the two. This takes us back to the question that no one here wants to answer. In what way are non-Jewish globalists better than Jewish ones? What is the difference between Rupert Murdoch and Mark Zuckerberg?

    I didn’t have this problem with off-topic comments on my old website. When I told my commenters to stay on-topic, they usually did. This is a larger problem than that of “Jews, jews, jews.” Some commenters here are very narcissistic. They are keenly aware of their own views, while being indifferent to those of others, including those of the columnist.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Stan D Mute
  126. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    “The problem we face is profoundly ideological and systemic”. It is having the desired result for those who run it. Nothing succeeds like success.

    What is the desired result? Who are the people that run it, and how does it benefit them?

  127. @Bengali dude

    India has this kind of African immigration as well?

  128. IA says:
    @Aaron

    The West is like a creature from the Galapogas Islands which lost the ability to defend itself through lack of competition.

  129. @Frost
    “China is one of the few countries where the globalist consensus can be reversed. Look at the big picture.”
    this is the thinking which makes being pro-immigration from middle/south america to the usa. If the USA would experience a large influx of especially mestizo immigrants (who basically look like some eurasian mix) that would be against the global consensus that future always means “more subsaharan africans”. because in the isa this would lead rather to a – slight – decline of the share of the population with subsaharan african ancestry not a explosion of this share like in so many other places

  130. The West is like a creature from the Galapogas Islands which lost the ability to defend itself through lack of competition.

    The West has become so dominant that it has forgotten the time, not so long ago, when its existence was much more precarious. This is Black History Month, and most of us are keenly aware of the Atlantic slave trade, yet how many of us know about the white slave trade? Between 1500 and 1650, over 10,000 Eastern Europeans were enslaved each year for export to North Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia … a total of 1.5 million. Between 1530 and 1780, more than 1 million Western Europeans were enslaved and taken mainly to North Africa.

    In terms of numbers and recentness, the white slave trade was comparable to the black slave trade. Yet this page of our history has become erased from our collective memory. There is only the history of Europeans enslaving non-Europeans.

    We also see this kind of historical omission in Obama’s condemnation of the Crusades, as if Christian Europe had the luxury of doing nothing. The Crusades were not an episode of European imperialism, with Muslims playing the role of oppressed colonial subjects. It was a struggle for survival, at a time when the Seljuk Turks had recently overrun Asia Minor and when Christian minorities in the Middle East were facing increasing persecution.

    Erik,

    Your reasoning escapes me.

  131. @Peter Frost

    I’m not bothered by anti-Semitic comments because they might get me into trouble…I’m bothered because they have low explanatory power.

    Ok Peter, I’ll refrain from mentioning this ethnonym out of respect for your sensibilities.

    But just for the record, I didn’t want to explain anything….

    @Aaron

    Have you actually spent time in China…

    I have had the opportunity to work with Singaporean Chinese.

    Yes, they are aggressive bargainers and hard task-masters. So what of it?

    A nation’s treatment of Africans has become the very yardstick of its civilization. Remember, when NATO invaded Libya, Western media wept an ocean into existence because those evil “racist” Arabs were showing blacks the way home?

    When the media lends a friendly hand the superpower wannabe Chinese too, like George Wallace & co., will eventually fall in line out of a desire to conform.

    Its that simple: if you gotta be modern, you HAVE to embrace “liberal” democracy, American pop culture, the African and the homosexual.

    @Bliss

    Coming from a bengali dude your racial pretentiousness comes across as laughably pathetic. Look in the mirror and see how stupid and silly you look.

    What do you think of your Rohingya brothers preferring to live in Burma where they are hated far worse than jews and africans are anywhere?

    Rohingyas are currently engaged in a secessionist movement. A lot of them have actually fled Burma.

    Consequently, your accusation of them “preferring to live in Burma” is ipso facto absurd.** Racial ad hominem, or should I say, and ad gentem, is a poor substitute for facts.

    Let me put this is another way, Rohingyas do claim racism against them just like the Somalis in Minnesota or Sweden, but unlike the latter they DO NOT immigrate en masse to communities of the allegedly racist ethnic group, insisting on letting them in.

    Their behaviour is consistent with their convictions. But the behaviour of your conspecifics is not.

    **To be more accurate, you could say that they prefer living in Burma, if you are of the opinion that a nation is nothing but a drawing on a map or a territory on ground. But I belong to a different school where it is held that a nation is an ethnic community. So I beg to differ with you on this.

    @Abelard Lindsey

    Yes, but not to the extent of China. But African immigration is definitely showing an upward trend.

    • Replies: @Aaron
  132. AG says:

    http://www.discussionist.com/?com=view_post&forum=1015&pid=190329

    that lower general intelligence (g) in childhood predicts greater racism in adulthood,

    Well, Han Chinese are less racist than most people. Does that mean Han has higher IQ than most people out there? Pattern seems always indicating the same result.

    Some idiots even think Japanese have higher IQ due to Japanese racist attitude? Wishful thinking.

  133. A4 says:

    Chinese Premier Li Keqiang just announced that the Chinese government will make it easier for foreigners to obtain green card in China.

  134. Aaron says:
    @Peter Frost

    So you think the American role isn’t to create this situation but only to exacerbate it.

    But you admit that we would have reached this point regardless because of our genetic predisposition. That being so, at worst, America accelerated the process. Diagnosing a cure seems to depend on addressing the fundamental disease – not slowing it down.

    As for America’s particular contribution to the growth of this disease, its very difficult for me to rate it as highly as you do. All it takes is extensive white contact with foreign culture and races for the disease to get activated (with the possible caveat that such contact must be exploitative). Your theory would be more plausible if Europeans were isolated and had no (exploitative) contact with foreign races – but they did, through their colonies, extensively and intimately.

    Had Europeans remained isolated from foreign races, and only America had such contact, it might make some sense that America defined European attitudes towards race via a shared disposition to experience race relations the same way (although had Europeans lacked a history of exploiting non-whites American attitudes would have had no resonance, it seems to me)

    Had America never existed, extensive, large scale, and exploitative European contact with non-white races would have done the job.

    Perhaps one might say that America plus the colonialist countries – Britain, France, Germany, Belgium, Holland, Spain, and Italy – export such attitudes to places like Sweden. I say the colonialist countries are enough.

    In fact Europe justifies its race attitudes in terms of its colonialist past. The language and themes are derived from Europe’s own experience – themes that characterize the American experience with blacks are absent from the language Europeans use to justify their race policies.

    It makes far more sense to say that a shared predisposition led both peoples to define their relations with other races the same way.

    Had neither America nor colonialism existed, globalism would have the same effect, although probably much milder as less guilt would be involved.

    Europe has a rich tradition of self-hate before American culture became influential. They scarcely needed Americans to instruct them in self-hate.

    Europe was more antiracist before America, and exported that attitude to America – the British were antislavery well before the Americans.

    It doesn’t make sense that American dominance is making the situation especially dire.

  135. Aaron says:
    @Bengali dude

    Japan seems quite modern without having the American attitude towards blacks. Likewise Singapore, since you mention it.

    China is still aspiring to modernity, but these countries have been modern for a long time. In the case of Japan, almost as long as Germany. Clearly tolerance of blacks isn’t essential to be accepted as modern.

    Your world seems to contain only the developed West + a China aspiring to join that club. If that was the whole world, you could be forgiven for thinking China must adopt the western attitude in all essentials to be accepted into a club consisting only of the west. But the world furnishes counter-examples.

    No, I am not talking about hard-bargaining Singaporean businessmen.

  136. Carlos says:

    The problem with censoring Peter, is that it reflects ones own biases. Including yours.

    If black people riot, rape, and burn down a city will we be censored here because people say “Blacks, Blacks, Blacks”? Will you tell us we are better off going to StormFront?

    Would you feel better if we referred to our problems as “Jews, Wasps, Jews”? Or maybe that is too inflammatory for you and we should refer to our overlords as “Wasps, Wasps, Jews” so it is Peter Frost friendly.

    For your information I have nothing against Jews at all. I find that offensive. But to not even be allowed to mention the Elephant the room? Give me a break. I would like to see Unz chime in here as I don’t think this is his intention of this site at all.

    I don’t think spam or name calling should be allowed, but why can’t we speak our mind about any group we choose without being censored so long as we are civil about it? Mr. Frost, can you please tell me which other groups are protected from aggressive blog commenting? The trans community? Gays?

    As to the difference between Rupert Murdoch and Zuckerberg, give me a break! All these elites are scum and bringing down the planet. The difference is that we can all sit here and freely say whatever we want to about Wasps and no one will censor us. But with “certain groups” we cannot say anything. So of course there will be more vitriol. That is just common sense.

    Now let’s see if Mr. Frost decides my comment is not offensive enough to publish.

    • Replies: @Truth
  137. Sean says:
    @Peter Frost

    I think it is not so much narcissism as they are unable to control their prepotent affectively charged responses. That would require more effortful control than they have.

    “Evidence is reviewed indicating that evolutionary pressure for cooperation may be a critical adaptive function accounting for the evolution of explicit processing”

  138. Aaron,

    The word “regardless” is too strong. We are intelligent beings, we can understand the long-term consequences of our actions, and we can rectify our actions accordingly. The situation is perhaps analogous to that of alcoholism. Many people are at risk of alcoholism, but no one is condemned to become an alcoholic and no one is condemned to remain an alcoholic.

    Northwest Europeans have a longstanding tendency toward weaker kinship and stronger individualism. Psychologically, this tendency seems to be supported by a greater predisposition to comply with universal morality, as opposed to kinship-based morality. It also seems to be related to a greater capacity for guilt (a negative emotional reaction when one violates moral norms, even when the only witness to the wrongdoing is oneself) and for affective empathy (a tendency to feel the pain of other people, even when they are not close kin).

    This tendency has enabled Northwest Europeans to organize their social relations in ways that have nothing to do with kinship, like the market economy. Our relative emancipation from kinship has enabled us to expand the market economy to a much greater degree, but now it’s the market economy that’s in the driver’s seat. This form of social organization is pushing us to an even greater degree of social atomization and individuation. In short, it’s liquidating all organic forms of collective identity, like the family, kith and kin, and ethny. Perhaps we can cope with this situation better than most people, but its effects are far from benign.

    Carlos,

    Yes, it does reflect my biases. This is my column and I get to make the rules. One of the rules is that comments should be on-topic. If they’re off-topic, they better be very interesting; otherwise, I hit “delete.”

    Is that unfair? It’s no more unfair than if I refuse to let someone post “Vote for Justin Trudeau” on my front lawn. It’s my frigging front lawn!

    If Kevin Macdonald wanted to post an off-topic comment, I would gladly oblige. He knows how to write, and I enjoy reading his material even if I may not agree. But your case is different. You apparently write under an assumed name, and that in itself shows how strongly you feel about what you write. You’re also much less interesting than Kevin.

    As to the difference between Rupert Murdoch and Zuckerberg, give me a break! All these elites are scum and bringing down the planet.

    Finally, we agree on something! If Rupert and Mark act in similar ways and have similar beliefs, maybe Jewishness is not the key factor. Frankly, Mark Zuckerberg’s sense of Jewish identity is comparable to my sense of Irish identity (close to zero),

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Aaron
  139. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Frost

    Are you part Irish?

  140. Bill P says:

    The problem with censoring Peter, is that it reflects ones own biases. Including yours.

    If black people riot, rape, and burn down a city will we be censored here because people say “Blacks, Blacks, Blacks”? Will you tell us we are better off going to StormFront?

    Would you feel better if we referred to our problems as “Jews, Wasps, Jews”? Or maybe that is too inflammatory for you and we should refer to our overlords as “Wasps, Wasps, Jews” so it is Peter Frost friendly.

    -Carlos

    The problem with not censoring, Carlos, is that one-issue fanatics will quickly come to dominate the blog and alienate everyone else within a matter of days. When it comes to Jews, for some reason, this happens remarkably quickly and forcefully.

    So unless you want your blog’s comments to be almost exclusively about “the Jews,” you have to censor the topic.

    Peter would be neglecting and alienating his overall audience by not censoring these fanatics, so it’s actually more of a responsibility than a choice, kind of like shoveling manure out of a stable.

    It’s a thankless task, but it has to be done.

  141. If there is censoring going on, its for the benefit of those of us who are getting tired of hearing “jews! jews! Jews! Is all the fault of the Jews!”. Those of you who want to blame the Jews for everything really need to take it somewhere else.

  142. @AnotherDad

    Hundreds of millions of sub-Saharan africans have been born and billions more will be born solely because of us horrible racist whites.

    Like you, I wish more fervently than anything else that our ancestors had the wisdom to leave the Bantus uncontacted like we have subsequently done with the Andamanese. There is literally nothing in our world that has benefitted from this contact while literally everything has suffered irreparably.

  143. @Aaron

    What is really disturbing to me is that the Jew blamers outnumber those of us who accept the fault that lies within our community and within our ancestors. I have heard no end to the vituperation from observing that our “Greatest Generation” was in fact our Worst Generation by virtue (?) of passing the Immigration Act of 1965 which many Boomers were too young to either support or oppose. That Act pretty much sealed America’s fate and guaranteed that it would be invaded and its founding stock dispossessed of what should have been their birthright. Jews have been willing accomplices, but none of this would have happened without white elites’ active support and white middle class complacency. So the Jew blamers would expend enormous energy to accomplish exactly nothing.

  144. Truth says:
    @Carlos

    “If black people riot, rape, and burn down a city will we be censored here because people say “Blacks, Blacks, Blacks”? Will you tell us we are better off going to StormFront?”

    That’s funny Bro. No that’s ONE HUNDRED PERCENT different!

  145. @Peter Frost

    It’s also worth mention that the West’s obsession with self-destruction is arguable the greatest danger to the Jews’ survival. The European christians and their offshoots in America, Australia, Canada, etc are the sole defense against Israel’s destruction. A quick review of the action at the UN will confirm that without the West’s unfailing defense, Israel would already be sanctioned into oblivion if not destroyed in war.

    That there are Jews who participate in the destruction of the west is certain just as there are Jews in the pro-Palestine movement. But this only proves that Jews are not immune to the self-hate and self-destruction inherent in the liberal/progressive insanity.

  146. @ Stan D Mute
    the bantus just have the last laugh. their strategy for survival in this world was perfect: first select for the warrior and the lover. endure the lack of civilization, high mortality. and in the end just wait until the others go and pick you up, nurture you, transport you around the world where you can outcompete them on the partner market, in fertility and so on.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  147. Are you part Irish?

    My father said his mother’s family had Irish blood, so I may be a quarter Irish or perhaps much less. I know very little about my paternal grandmother because she never came to Canada.

    Truth,

    I’m more lenient when the comments are on-topic. Are you upset about that commenter who asked why a Chinese woman would want to marry an African man?

    • Replies: @Truth
  148. Truth says:
    @Peter Frost

    No, Mr. Frost, absolutely, and I mean ABSOLUTELY not. I support the right of free “press” even to a comical degree.

    I understand some censorship, such as, for instance profanity, writing skill, substandard to the point of distraction, or intentional and pointless instigation, but otherwise, I think one should be allowed to make his point without regards to how simple-minded or mediocre it may be.

    Let’s face it, on any “white nationalist” (or quasi WN board, as I would describe this one), the playbook is:

    Blame the N-s…
    Blame the N-s…
    Blame the N-s…

    Then eventually, every 25th post, someone gets around to “Blame the Kikes.”

    It’ is that way on Stormfront, on Amren, an Caste football, etc., has been since day one, and it is that way, here; however, you have, perhaps 10% dissent instead of 2-5%, which makes it more interesting.

    Believe me, If I were upset, there would be no reason for me to be here at all, much less have a quarrel with ONE response.

  149. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Erik Sieven

    They’re not good “warriors”. Other groups are just less impulsive, more organized, formal, calculating about declaring, undertaking, and waging war. Their strategy depends on war not being openly declared and implementing chaotic, disorganized, “random” acts of violence under conditions of official peace that non-black groups tend to obey and take more seriously. If this official peace is no longer recognized and war is declared, they would be in deep trouble. Even very primitive non-black organizations, such as Mexican gangs in Los Angeles, have quite easily ethnically cleansed formerly black areas of Los Angeles.

  150. Truth,

    I agree. The comments section is starting to look like a storm(front) sewer.

    It’s a case of “damned if I do and damned if I don’t.” I would like to adopt a more stringent commenting policy, but I’m already getting a lot of heat for the number of comments I’ve already deleted (30 so far).

    There’s no double standard. I routinely delete comments about Jews because (a) they are off-topic and (b) they tend to overwhelm the comments section and drive away the more interesting commenters. Many of them are also poorly written, often bordering on the moronic.

    This column is about Africans in China, so comments about Africans are on-topic. Yes, some of those comments are unflattering. What do you expect? Some Africans do unflattering things. FWIW I have deleted several comments that seemed to me gratuitously or excessively anti-African.

  151. Carlos says:

    @Peter.

    I think you should only delete comments that are spam and threats of violence. I have no problem with you deleting other comments on your own website. But to do it here is wrong and a slap in the face to what Unz is trying to build here.

    If you want a scrubbed dialog, and if you cannot take a truly free and uncensored discussion amongst others, I suggest you leave here and write somewhere else.

    You say that commenting on Jews here is off topic. But when you have a single group that dominates finance, media, and government, and they impose immigration everywhere they go; why can’t people discuss it so long as they are on point and not just slinging mud?

    People in the mainstream could just as easily say you cannot talk about black people in a negative light or else you are racist. Aren’t you, by implying that black immigration to China would hurt China, a racist? Aren’t you blaming black people for problems that aren’t even there yet? How would you feel if someone censored your article that you spent time writing?

    The hipocracy here is truly stunning and your StormFront attacks aren’t helping at all. Say what you want about me not writing in my own name, but it is people like you who would call me a Nazi or StormFront member just for raising questions about a group in charge that leaves me writing under a pseudonym. Jews did not hold back at all when it was Wasps in charge wrecking this country. So why should anyone hold back now?

    If anything, your behavior here raises questions about your integrity. And makes me wonder why you are so beholden to those in power.

  152. ‘Jews’ NEVER have any responsibility.

    Is not look like stormfront, look like Yaretz or Israel News.

    (Do not accept my comment, hihihi)

    Hbd= sofisticated way to minimize the role of the jews (pathological altruism in europeans ”explain” collective suicide, marriage patterns in arabs ”explain”tribal wars in middle east).

    Do not acccept but you will read….

    ;)

  153. Aaron says:
    @Peter Frost

    You seem to see the problem as one of simple tolerance of immigration. But what we have is ethno-masochism and tolerance of immigration cannot be separated from that.

    Weak kinship ties only eliminates one motive for keeping others out – group based allegiance, but it does not provide a positive reason to allow immigration in the face of social and economic harm. Weak group allegiance is a mere negative – it simply removes one barrier to immigration. But mere absence of barrier isn’t enough – ok, so we don’t care about group allegiance, but we care about crime, lawlessness, lost jobs, and the like.

    Nor is there a moral universalism at work here – clear double standards that privilege non-whites obtain across the board. Indeed whites seem to be applying a kin-based morality that favors non-whites – there is no hint of a universal morality . Its as if white attitudes towards race is exactly the same as other groups, just in reverse.The categories are the same – if whites truly had weak kinship ties and all the rest, they would think in basically different categories. But they don’t.

    Further, white self-hate is predicated not on individualism but rather on its opposite – a strong sense of membership in the white race. Whites who self-flagellate do so out of a sense of collective identity – they are responsible for the sins of their fathers. No more classic example of kinship based morality – atoning for the sings of your fathers – is possible.

    Guilt is undoubtedly at work here, but if universal morality – the same standards for all races – is what gives rise to guilt, since self-hating whites don’t apply a universal morality based on the individual – if they did, they wouldn’t be self-hating whites needing to atone for sins they never committed – that can’t be the source of our guilt.

    So some of these traits exclude others – if weak kinship ties are a factor, then guilt at what your distant kin did can’t be, if individualism is a factor, then guilt for what you yourself never did can’t be, if non kin-based universal morality is a factor – same standards for close kin and non-kin alike – then the moral double-standard against whites couldn’t exist.

    What seems to be happening is something far more strikingly bizarre and grotesque- whites seem not to have abandoned kin-based thinking at all, but to have developed allegiances to non-white groups, utilizing the exact same kin-based morality and thinking other groups use with regard to themselves. Its the same mathematical formula just with the variables given different values.

    Precisely what genetic disposition leads to THAT outcome I do not know. But we are nowhere near understanding it.

    All the traits you listed cannot lead to self-hate on their own. I would not discount the peculiar role western civilization has played in this – as mentioned before, and by many writers from a fairly early date, there is something peculiarly unsatisfying about key aspects of life in a western culture despite its many comforts and glories (I suspect its an unromantic rationalism that denies outlets for the emotions – dissatisfaction with life in the west began shortly after the scientific revolution and grew steadily louder with each passing generation – and its hard to miss the romantic element in white self-hate and attitude towards other races).

    Furthermore, the class most prone to white self-hate are precisely intellectuals, who are most exposed to the rational outlook – indeed are trained in it, though they hardly practice it. Non-reflective whites not exposed to the European rationalist tradition seem to retain robust defenses against the disease.

    If so, then modern white self-hate can be seen as a romantic revolt against rationalism and the rationalistic outlook – in some sense, against precisely individualism, weak kinship ties, and universal morality.

    There’s a reason Peter mentioned the peculiar allure of Asia. In my opinion the allure is closely bound up with the non-rational, emotion-gratifying, element in that culture.

  154. You say that commenting on Jews here is off topic

    It’s off-topic when it’s not the topic of the current column. In the past, I have written about the role of Jewish scholars, like Franz Boas, in reviving antiracism in the 1930s. Previously, antiracism was a northeastern WASP thing. It arose as a radicalization of abolitionism during the early 19th century, reached its peak around the time of the American Civil War, and then fell into decline. The Jewish community did not embrace antiracism until much later. Even the NAACP was originally a WASP outfit.

    I’m not afraid to talk about Jews, either as individuals or as organizations. I just don’t see them as having the central role in history that you assign them. That’s why I don’t talk about them in every column. That’s not cowardice. That’s just my view of things.

    How would you feel if someone censored your article that you spent time writing?

    That happens to me all the time, with my academic manuscripts. Some of them don’t even get sent out for review. They get rejected in the editor’s office. That’s life. I don’t go crying to mama every time I don’t get my way.

    • Replies: @Carlos
    , @Stan D Mute
  155. Carlos says:
    @Peter Frost

    Well….

    How very convenient of you to deem certain groups on topic or off topic.

    Let’s say we talk about the impact of immigration on societies, but you are not allowed to bring up blacks or Muslims because that would be considered off topic.

    See how that works?

    The only people who create such artificial barriers to discussion are those who know they are already on shaky ground, but don’t want the narrative in their own head challenged.

    I would suggest you develop thicker skin here or you should move on.

    lol. And as for the second part of your reply. Yes I told Unz about the censorship that was happening in your column. I still don’t think you quite understand though. You getting rejected by academia might be because you write about things that are politically incorrect and you are being censored. But this place is not serving the same gatekeepers function that academia serves. That is precisely why it is important to maintain integrity here and not censor each other because everywhere else we will be censored.

  156. Melendwyr says: • Website

    I’m afraid some sort of censorship is needed merely to maintain the site from being overwhelmed by bots and linkbait comments. The question is rather, what sort of censorship will there be?

    I must admit that I’m growing very, very tired of people bringing ‘Jews’ into every discussion, particularly when their comments make clear that they’re actually objecting to our elite class rather than actual Jews – although of course that class is disproportionally Jewish, most Jews have little to nothing to do with the elites, and the substantial part of that class which isn’t Jewish is being ignored, which makes talking about potential solutions very difficult.

    My biggest objection to censorship is when the standards we are expected to maintain, and the standards enforced by the host, don’t actually match. A very broad and vague standard – such as “I’ll approve comments as I see fit” – is perfectly fine. Hopefully such censorship would be used wisely, but even if not it’ll be done honestly. It’s the sites that make no such statements, and then dispose only of comments supporting particular views, which offend me.

    O Blog Owner, I suggest you state that you’ll censor at whim and have done with it. I appreciate that the various Unz sites are generally open enough even for commonly-loathed viewpoints to be discussed openly – it’s one of the reasons I read here – but obsessive fixation can only be tolerated so far. I urge you to do as you see fit, then tell us what you’ve done, and we’ll draw our own conclusions.

    • Replies: @Carlos
  157. Carlos says:
    @Melendwyr

    Melendwyer.

    One could easily say that ” I am sick of people here always talking about blacks or Muslims”. Should we censor comments about those groups too? The temptation for everyone is too cherry pick a narrative and then censor comments that argue against it. That is exactly the reason this website was created. To have a place where people could talk freely about things that are politically incorrect.

    Are you are Jewish? Maybe you are, maybe not. But don’t you think a black reader here will feel tired of always reading about how everything is black peoples fault, even though it is only a minority or blacks who commit a crime?

    If people here object to singling our certain groups then we can just be politically correct and take turns talking about groups an equal amount of times. Or, we could just not be politically correct and let people talk about whatever they want.

    I think it is reasonable to delete comments that are trolling, spammy, and violent. But talking about any group can be relevant at any time. So as long as you are trying to make a point, the authors here should not censor anyone except for the above reasons.

  158. One could easily say that ” I am sick of people here always talking about blacks or Muslims”.

    One could not easily say that. Of my last twenty columns, two were about blacks and three were about Muslims. That’s one out of four times. Moreover, one of those columns (The evolution of antiracism) was just as much about Jews as about blacks.

    Are you Jewish?

    No, I’m not Jewish. That’s not the issue.

  159. Carlos says:

    Peter.

    The above comment was not addressed to you. It was addressed to Melendwyr.

    And while you may not have discussed blacks or Muslims much in the past, I was just making a point about the kind of articles one can find here.

  160. @Bengali dude

    The Chinese do not have a higher mean IQ then Westerners, their purported higher IQ was obtained only from urban/school/elite samples and not the average day to day masses in the farmlands and elsewhere in their country. The sample population was biased and unreliable/inaccurate to begin with.

    • Replies: @Truth
  161. Truth says:
    @Batterytrain

    No, that’s not true; according to Sailer, the Chinese in ellite capitals such as Hong Kong and Singapore have IQs of NEAR ONE-TWENTY!

    (Don’t shoot the messenger, Sport; unless it’s Steve.)

  162. @Peter Frost

    I have written about the role of Jewish scholars, like Franz Boas, in reviving antiracism in the 1930s. Previously, antiracism was a northeastern WASP thing. It arose as a radicalization of abolitionism during the early 19th century, reached its peak around the time of the American Civil War, and then fell into decline. The Jewish community did not embrace antiracism until much later. Even the NAACP was originally a WASP outfit.

    This has befuddled me for a long time. The Jew-blamers get just ballistic when you point out that the absolute low point in American atrocities against whites was during Reconstruction when Jewish influence was approximately zero. Likewise they throw a fit when you point out that Jews have no central leader (ie “King Jew”) directing their energies and the leader of their largest group (Reform) wants the same anti-Jew policies in Israel as his preferred anti-white policies in America. When I contrast that to Catholics whose Pope is a rabid anti-white champion or the leadership of every other denomination (Presbyterian, Lutheran, Episcopal, Baptist, etc) equally fervently anti-white, their little Jew-hating eyes bulge out.

    Are these people just incapable of accepting that their ancestors, living relatives, neighbors, and friends are responsible for the horror show conditions in which their children will live? Or is there something more sinister at work? Could they be deliberately sowing seeds of division intended to corral Jews into the leftist camp, keep HBD from gaining a very smart and media savvy cohort, or some other devious strategy? A great many of the comments I see are highly suspicious insofar as spelling, grammar, syntax, and just pointless bloviating apparently intended to overwhelm with volume rather than reason and logic.

    It’s easy enough to understand why some whites oppose supporting Israel with our taxes and troops. I’m in that camp myself as an isolationist. I can also see that Jews are over represented in media, but that no more suggests a grand Jewish conspiracy than does their over representation in Podiatry. In the end, I don’t know the answer to your conundrum. Censorship sucks. But putting your readers through stupid comment after stupid comment all making the same pointless statement (ie “Jews own media”) advances nothing and detracts from reasoned debate. It’s analog is the negro habit of shouting over and over the same thing at increasingly higher volume (ie “He dindoonuffins! … He dindoonuffins! … He dindoonuffins!) which only makes smart people want to put massive distance between themselves and the noise source.

  163. Carlos says:

    Stan.

    Jews and Wasps are like cousins. Or different mafia families. There are numerous similarities. Over their lifespans, Wasps have done far more damage to the world than Jews have, but I suppose the gap is narrowing.

    The real difference is that while you can say whatever you want about Wasps without fear of retribution, Jews routinely censor people who are critical in any way.

    The pope is not the leader of the Wasp. The Wasps are the rulers, and that includes the pope. The Wasps have no leader per se, just powerful families and interests.

    • Replies: @Southfarthing
  164. @Carlos

    “Anti-Italian Studies” or “anti-German Studies” are just as restricted as “anti-Jewish Studies.” If people with Jewish ancestry had committed the “sins” of Italians and Germans over the last few millennium, like conquering England 2000 years ago, or destroying the Western Roman Empire 1500 years ago, these websites would never stop talking about it.

    The upcoming problem for China is the same that causes many trends in the West: identity groups and those who share their views can vote with their money. It’s an intrinsic feature of global free markets for businesses and individuals to become more humanistic (and non-offending…).

    “Over their lifespans, Wasps have done far more damage to the world than Jews have, but I suppose the gap is narrowing.”</blockquote
    You're being a cultural marxist. WASPS and Jews have contributed more to the world per capita than any other groups.

    Thomas Jefferson: "There is not a truth existing which I fear or would wish unknown to the whole world." Falsehoods and inaccuracies, however, should be disproved.

  165. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I see no reason why Chinese should ask Africans why are you here in Chinese? My reason is chinese are everywhere in Africa even in villages of our beautiful continent looking for what they didn’t lost in our land. If you see overstayed visa holders in China is all about their refusal to renew visa or issue work permit or resident permit. If chinese come to Africa and see business opportunities, we say welcome to Africa why is it that if African visit China and see business opportunities you can say welcome to China but why are you here? The best answer to that is because you are there! Let me send this as a caveat to the Chinese people, china and africa are like a conjoined twins, we need to cooperate with ourselves in other for us to be happy permanently. Africa and china are on the moon at such, we must move in harmony. I love China personally because of their foreign policy toward Africa even though I have not been there. I love you all and may God give us the wisdom to fully understand that there is interdependency between us China and Africa.

    • Replies: @reezy
  166. peter, it’s your blog and it’s great so you get to deal with commenters at whim (steve sailer’s stance), so why bother with quarrelers? there may be better use of your time.

    not overly related but fun–i didn’t know that “Blasian” was a thing, but boy, is it ever! i’m highly critical of globalism, but …well!

  167. reezy says:
    @Anonymous

    The matter is more than just economics. The Chinese don’t want low IQ Africans flooding their country and contaminating their gene pool.

  168. @Bill P

    Amazing. I saw the very beginning of this first-hand, but I never would have thought Africans would be in China in such significant numbers

    The higher estimate of African origin people living in all of China is given as 500K. Official numbers are much lower.

    That’s nothing. There are single states in the US that get larger volumes of permanent sub-Saharan African immigrants in a single year, much less as a cumulative total. Or tiny regions of Europe can get 500K immigrants from Africa in a week.

    • Replies: @reezy
  169. reezy says:
    @Massimo Heitor

    That’s nothing. There are single states in the US that get larger volumes of permanent sub-Saharan African immigrants in a single year, much less as a cumulative total. Or tiny regions of Europe can get 500K immigrants from Africa in a week.

    That does not sound right. You got some sources for that? Germany took in about 1.5 million MENA “refugees” in TOTAL for 2015. Still a tremendous amount no doubt, but far from the 0.5 million African migrants per week you claimed.

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