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Gender Reassignment of Children
Does It Really Help?
"Flower boy" (on the right) - In 70-80% of cases, gender confusion will clear up on its own, Credit: Recoplado/Wikimedia Commons
"Flower boy" (on the right) - In 70-80% of cases, gender confusion will clear up on its own, Credit: Recoplado/Wikimedia Commons

I remember feeling some attraction to girls in Grade 2, but it really wasn’t until Grade 8 that everything fell into place. I’m talking about puberty. Before high school, I was a boy and not a young man.

I didn’t consider myself abnormal. Yes, many boys in Grade 8 had deeper voices, as well as signs of facial hair, but just as many did not, and a few would not have been “sexually functional.” As for the earlier grades, certainly before Grade 7, most of us could have passed for little girls—just change the clothing, the hairstyle, and voilà!

Today, puberty is starting earlier. Ontario schools will begin explaining it in … Grade 4. This falling age is largely due to the changing ethnic and racial origins of the student population, as well as things like overeating (in the case of girls) and perhaps our more sexualized culture.

Nonetheless, a lot of boys remain pre-pubertal throughout most of primary school, and some may have trouble coming to terms with their male identity. They experience what is called “gender confusion.” This is hardly surprising. Testosterone levels are low before puberty, and some boys, especially the ones who have been less androgenized in the womb, may genuinely feel like a girl. I also suspect that modern culture makes things worse by creating expectations that even adult males have trouble meeting. Go to any fitness center and you’ll see plenty of young men trying to bring their bodies into line with the “rippled look.”

Gender confusion, known medically as gender identity disorder, affects children of both sexes but boys much more so, at least in North America. One clinic reported a ratio of 6.6 boys for each girl, the sex imbalance being attributed partly to greater intolerance of feminine behavior in boys (Zucker et al., 1997). This disorder seems to be partly heritable, although we face a similar problem of perspective here as with the referral statistics (Heylens et al., 2012). To what degree does the heritable component reside in how these children objectively behave, and not in one behavior that may or may not alarm another person, usually a parent? In practice, it’s the latter. It’s whatever behavior that makes a parent bring the child to a clinician’s office.

Gender reassignment

We now come to the issue of medical treatment, specifically “gender reassignment.” This treatment has recently been condemned by Dr. Paul McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital:

Then there is the subgroup of very young, often prepubescent children who notice distinct sex roles in the culture and, exploring how they fit in, begin imitating the opposite sex. Misguided doctors at medical centers including Boston’s Children’s Hospital have begun trying to treat this behavior by administering puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous—even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility. (McHugh, 2015)

Is treatment really necessary? McHugh points out: “When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings.”

McHugh has been accused by the transgender community of misrepresenting the facts:

McHugh also mischaracterizes the treatment of gender nonconforming children. As McHugh states, most gender nonconforming children do not identify as transgender in adulthood. However, those who receive puberty blocking drugs do not do so until puberty, when trans identity is likely to persist. These drugs allow adolescents and their parents to work with doctors to achieve the best outcome. This approach was demonstrated to be successful in research in the Netherlands before being adopted widely in the U.S. (WPATH, 2015)

The above text is disingenuous in two ways. First, puberty-blocking drugs are not administered until puberty for an obvious reason: they would be ineffective earlier. The decision to use them, however, is made at an earlier time and often much earlier. Second, these drugs keep hormonal levels from rising, thus maintaining the boy or girl in the same hormonal state and possibly in the same state of gender confusion. Logically, one should wait a few years to see what effect puberty might have.

Is the use of these drugs legitimate? We’re talking about a radical intervention in the normal process of maturation, and this intervention begins before the age of consent, i.e., 16 years of age in most Western countries. Moreover, the eventual gender reassignment will never be complete. Although it’s possible to turn a male into a semblance of a female, such a “female” can never bear children. This isn’t a minor point, given that many male transsexuals wish to maintain a male heterosexual orientation, even to the point of marrying and becoming fathers.

For all these reasons, use of these drugs should be delayed until adulthood, when consent becomes morally defendable, when the risks of sterility are lower, and when the gender confusion may prove to be transitory.

A boy is not a little man

The transgender community likes to talk a good talk about “gender fluidity.” Ironically, such fluidity is reduced by gender reassignment, which imposes a relatively unchanging adult dichotomy on pre-pubertal individuals who are going through rapid physical and psychological change. This brings us to a second irony. The transgender community complains about how it was once medically pathologized. Yet here it is pathologizing cases of gender confusion that are not unusual among young children and that are consistent with normal child development.

We should remember that both sexes begin with a body plan that is more female than male. This plan is modified at two points of the life cycle: first, in the womb, when the body’s tissues are primed by a surge of androgens or estrogens; and then at puberty, when boys and girls diverge in the levels of their circulating sex hormones, which in turn trigger profound changes in growth and development.

This truth was known to our ancestors. As late as the early 20th century, people accepted that little boys are more akin to little girls than to grown men. This was why both sexes would be dressed in female clothing until school age, and a mother would often boast that her little boy was as pretty as a girl.

[…] infants and small children had for hundreds of years been dressed alike, in frocks, so that family portraits from previous centuries made it difficult to tell the young boys from the girls. “Breeching,” as a rite of passage, was a sartorial definition of maleness and incipient adulthood, as, in later periods, was the all-important move from short pants to long. Gender differentiation grew increasingly desirable to parents as time went on. By the closing years of the twentieth century the sight of little boys in frilly dresses has become unusual and somewhat risible; a childhood photograph of macho author Ernest Hemingway, aged almost two, in a white dress and large hat festooned with flowers, was itself the focus of much amused critical commentary when reproduced in a best-selling biography—especially when it was disclosed that Hemingway’s mother had labelled the photograph of her son “summer girl.” (Garber, 1997, pp. 1-2)

Hemingway hated those baby pictures, as well as the stories about how his mother would call him “Ernestine” and tell strangers that he and his sister were twin girls. During her declining years, he threatened to cut off his financial support if she ever gave an interview about his childhood (Onion, 2013; Winer, 2008). He saw her as the typical Victorian mother who sought to momify and symbolically castrate her male offspring. With other writers of his time, particularly psychologists and advice columnists, he helped bring about a reform of sexual conventions that, among other things, would sweep away the custom of cross-dressing little boys.

(see here for an early childhood photo of Hemingway and here for similar photos of H.P. Lovecraft

I remember how I felt seeing such photos when doing research on my family tree. What the?? Today, I feel differently: this cross-dressing strikes me as being healthy, even beautiful in its own way. It avoids the problem of imposing male identity too early in life and thereby forcing slower-developing boys to choose between the identity imposed by society and the one generated by their own mental state—which may still be insufficiently male. It is this situation, and the resulting gender confusion, that is now putting many boys at risk of gender reassignment. Yet there’s nothing wrong with most of them. They just need more time to grow up.

As an extreme example, let’s take the case of “pseudohermaphrodites”—males who look female at birth because their penis resembles a clitoris and because their testes remain inside the body. They are typically raised as girls until puberty, at which time the penis grows in size, the testes descend into the scrotum, and they become like men physically and psychologically. When 18 pseudohermaphrodites were studied in the Dominican Republic, it was found that 16 of them had made the transition from girlhood to manhood with no evidence of psychosexual maladjustment (Imperato-Mcginley et al., 1979). A similar situation often arose among Canada’s Inuit whenever a newborn received the name of a deceased relative. If the child was a boy and the relative a woman, it would be raised as a girl until puberty and as a man thereafter. Such individuals became not only husbands and fathers but also respected shamans (Saladin d’Anglure, 2005).

In short, gender confusion in childhood poses no threat to normal child development. Indeed, whether we acknowledge it or not, all boys start off being more like little girls than the men they will become. This “early girlhood” may actually play a key role in their psychosexual development, and our ancestors might have had good reasons to believe that boyhood begins later. But that raises a troubling question: by trying to masculinize this early phase of life, have we opened the door to unknown consequences?

So if you have a young boy who’s confused about his gender identity, the chances are very good that he’ll successfully transition to manhood … as long as he’s not given puberty-blocking drugs. This is not a medical condition that needs treatment.

References

Garber, M.B. (1997). Vested Interests: Cross-Dressing and Cultural Anxiety, Psychology Press.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=eeASHasS0oUC&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Heylens, G., G. De Cuypere, K.J. Zucker, C. Schelfaut, E.Elaut, H. Vanden Bossche, E. De Baere, and G. T’Sjoen. (2012). Gender identity disorder in twins: A review of the case report literature, The Journal of Sexual Medicine, 9, 751-757.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2011.02567.x/abstract

Imperato-Mcginley, J., R.E. Petersen, T. Gautier, and E. Sturia. (1979). Male pseudohermaphroditism secondary to 5a-reductase deficiency—A model for the role of androgens in both the development of the male phenotype and the evolution of a male gender identity, Journal of Steroid Biochemistry, 11, 637-645.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022473179900931

McHugh, P. (2015). Transgender surgery isn’t the solution, The Wall Street Journal, June 12
http://www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Onion, R. (2013). Pages from Hemingway’s baby books, Slate, July 23
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_vault/2013/07/23/hemingway_scrapbooks_grace_hemingway_s_records_of_son_ernest_hemingway_s.html

Saladin d’Anglure, B. (2005). The ‘Third Gender’ of the Inuit,Diogenes, 52, 134-144.
http://dio.sagepub.com/content/52/4/134.short

Winer, A. (2008). Why Hemingway used to wear women’s clothing, Mental_floss, December 18
http://mentalfloss.com/article/20396/why-hemingway-used-wear-womens-clothing

WPATH (2015). Wall Street Journal Editorial Critiques Transgender Health July 2, 2014
http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage_menu=1635&pk_association_webpage=4905

Zucker, K.J., S.J. Bradley, and M. Sanikhani. (1997). Sex differences in referral rates of children with gender identity disorder: some hypotheses, Journal of Abnormal Child Psychology,25, 217-227.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1025748032640#page-1

(Reprinted from Evo and Proud by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Peter says:
    The transgender community likes to talk a good talk about “gender fluidity.” Ironically, such fluidity is reduced by gender reassignment, which imposes a relatively unchanging adult dichotomy on pre-pubertal individuals who are going through rapid physical and psychological change. This brings us to a second irony. The transgender community complains about how it was once medically pathologized. Yet here it is pathologizing cases of gender confusion that are not unusual among young children and that are consistent with normal child development.

    Indeed. And this is going to be one of the new battlegrounds or areas of controversy, particularly in Western societies in the decades to come- the “fluidity” or fundamental blurring of identity between male and female. Already some in “the community” insist on immunity from criticism, or that criticism be muted, or try to intimidate critics and skeptics in some “politically correct” venues.

    .
    So if you have a young boy who’s confused about his gender identity, the chances are very good that he’ll successfully transition to manhood …

    True enough. Such confusion and uncertainty, which is nothing extraordinary, and in past generations was routinely redirected, can be fixed by normal socialization. But there seems to be a movement afoot or potential movement to disparage normal socialization as “patriarchal” or “phobic.” Hence TIME magazine celebrates the camp for transgendered kids below- setting up the “PC” view the smart set are expected to adopt. From there it will build- the trendy, fashionable thing. From that, schools and so on gradually incorporate it into the approved meme. What is now “Gender Identity Disorder” will cease to be a “disorder” and become a new orthodoxy to be accepted. And it keeps going. The precedent has already been set by “gay” marriage.

    http://time.com/3743987/gender-creative-kids/

    Kid “getting in touch” with his ‘female’ side

    http://millana.tumblr.com/image/55612822737

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73
    At the rate we're going, having an identity will be considered a disorder.
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  2. Given the topic, I think I’ll take the liberty of republishing a couple of comments I made a few days ago:

    Don’t how many people already heard about it, but back a few months ago. Rep. Mike Honda, one of Silicon Valley’s Congressmen, proudly announced that his 8-year-old grand-daughter was “transgender”.

    He has a potentially tough primary challenger, and this might give him a significant boost…

    http://www.sfchronicle.com/nation/article/Rep-Mike-Honda-s-granddaughter-a-transgender-6151749.php

    Consider the power of media/marketing.

    If that little 8-year-old girl had declared herself to be a bunny-rabbit or an 8-year-old boy claimed he was a vampire, no one would pay any attention. But if they happen to watch a little TeeVee news, and declare themselves trans-gender, it gets into all the newspapers…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    There seems to be a higher proportion of gender confusion among some ethnicities. If those communities notice their little boys' identification as girls is at a comparatively high rate, societal facilitation of that identification is going to be more controversial. Especially any colouring of hair and lightening of skin ect .
  3. lol.. for now its sorta trendy and fashionable- the first phase. Honda just might get away with it, if enough of the smart set vote for him. The train is already rolling. In academia assorted proponents are cleverly “linking” the “transgendered struggle” to “civil rights.” The book below has a complete program for schools to “correct” alleged “problematic” gender identification behavior, smoothly working in a race meme to grease the skids, and disarm criticism.

    (Breaking Bad Habits of Race and Gender: Transforming Identity in Schools, author: Sarah Marie Stitzlein)

    Read More
  4. I can only speak from experience. I sometimes felt like I was weaker or different from other boys. Never once did I think I therefore had more in common with girls. And neither did anyone else I knew.

    As late as the early 20th century, people accepted that little boys are more akin to little girls than to grown men.

    This is like Leowintin’s fallacy. It seems deep when you first hear it, but when you think about it a little bit…

    Of course, little boys are more like little girls than they are to grown men. But little children are more akin to pets than they are to adults humans. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t serious male/female differences at an early age, or that there’s a lot of confusion. Even if many boys and girls sometimes feel inadequate, only a small minority of humans ever question their gender, without massive propaganda encouraging such insanity.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    "... without massive propaganda encouraging such insanity."

    And an extremely perverse insanity is what all this is. The deranged left has seized the microphone and will not let go.

    None of this occurs without an obliging media & so called 'academia', and who are they?

    It's not going to be pretty.

  5. First of all, readers see also:

    Transsexuals | West Hunter

    This disorder seems to be partly heritable, although we face a similar problem of perspective here as with the referral statistics

    It’s likely quite genetically influenced like all things. However, a significant fraction gender identity disorder cases likely results from de novo mutations.

    Read More
  6. In a way, it’s strange. Our society was succesful in shaping unisex clothes for adults (mostly by women adapting their boyfriends T-shirts and Jeans).
    So it ought to be easy to dress the child in unisex and leave it alone. Tell the child that there’s nothing to decide ad hoc and there’s plenty of time to decide later if it wants to become a man or not. But teach it the main basic abilities of both sexes.
    But parents seem to feel that they MUST enforce the child to find its “right” gender, even if that is a “trans” gender.

    Peter Frost’s plea for mothers dressing little boys as girls is understandable, but completely over the edge. By the way, I wouldn’t argue that Inuit raised as girls later on “became NOT ONLY husbands and fathers BUT ALSO respected shamans”. In Shamanistic societies, the role of Shaman was often given to a man who did not comply with the standards and expectations for a well adjusted man.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Exactly, these younger kids aren't even into puberty yet, so sexual orientation shouldn't even be an issue at this point.

    I suspect this is really more a political move to get certain ideas inserted into the school curriculum.

    Whatever formulas they come up with for sex education, it should be something that comes into play later. Pre-pubescent kids shouldn't even be thinking about this sort of stuff.

    , @Schizotypal Shaman
    "In Shamanistic societies, the role of Shaman was often given to a man who did not comply with the standards and expectations for a well adjusted man."

    Dig Dr. Sapolsky lecturing on schizotypal peronality disorder and shamanism!
  7. One of the ironies of the left-liberal transgender movement is that it deliberately ignores the majority of those males who have mild to moderate gender identity issues.

    For example, the liberal-left has little interest in the 2 to 3 percent of males who struggle to mild to moderate levels of autogynephilia (such as cross-dressers who don’t desire sex changes) and nor is it interested in feminine-acting boys who grow up to be heterosexual. About 75 percent of feminine-acting boys turn out gay but 25 percent turn out straight and the later often have significant psychological problems (Michael Jackson being a good example).

    Inevitably in a liberal society there are going to be a small percentage of the male population who are awkwardly squeezed between gay and heterosexual culture, but liberal society would rather these people either came out as gay or declared themselves women trapped in men’s bodies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SFG
    Pretty much. I actually found one of the old books on the treatment of homosexuality (a local medical school was getting rid of books), and it mostly seemed to be aiming at 'developing a heterosexual identity'--i.e., turning a gay man into a bi man, since it seems to be easier to eroticize things than de-eroticize them.

    I wonder how many gay men could become bi and live conventional lives (barring the occasional wayward thought and, really, we all have those, even if they don't concern same-sex attraction--how many times have you thought about killing your boss)? I guess we will never know.

  8. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Stogumber
    In a way, it's strange. Our society was succesful in shaping unisex clothes for adults (mostly by women adapting their boyfriends T-shirts and Jeans).
    So it ought to be easy to dress the child in unisex and leave it alone. Tell the child that there's nothing to decide ad hoc and there's plenty of time to decide later if it wants to become a man or not. But teach it the main basic abilities of both sexes.
    But parents seem to feel that they MUST enforce the child to find its "right" gender, even if that is a "trans" gender.

    Peter Frost's plea for mothers dressing little boys as girls is understandable, but completely over the edge. By the way, I wouldn't argue that Inuit raised as girls later on "became NOT ONLY husbands and fathers BUT ALSO respected shamans". In Shamanistic societies, the role of Shaman was often given to a man who did not comply with the standards and expectations for a well adjusted man.

    Exactly, these younger kids aren’t even into puberty yet, so sexual orientation shouldn’t even be an issue at this point.

    I suspect this is really more a political move to get certain ideas inserted into the school curriculum.

    Whatever formulas they come up with for sex education, it should be something that comes into play later. Pre-pubescent kids shouldn’t even be thinking about this sort of stuff.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    I suspect this is really more a political move to get certain ideas inserted into the school curriculum

    Of course its a political move, that's the trend, and one that will expand in the future. As the reference above notes, assorted curricula are already being designed to do just that in the schools. And it will be done under the "sex education" rubric. Expect expanded legal "inclusiveness" later. The implications are already being foreshadowed re "gay" marriage.

    As one law professor argues, (Mae Kuykendall, Michigan State University), forcing all states to permit same-sex marriages "constitutionalizes" the marriage institution. So numerous family law issues from child care, to paternity to divorce, become "constitutional" questions, meaning federal bureaucrats, courts and politicos assume effective control over state and local experience and the expressed wishes of people a the local level. The Supreme Court even its its so called "rightward" mode some years back, has already caved on a number of issues. Fifty years hence it will not be surprising to see "constitutional" issues pushed by transgender/transsexual proponents, with courts standing by, perhaps to do their bidding.


    .
    Whatever formulas they come up with for sex education, it should be something that comes into play later. Pre-pubescent kids shouldn’t even be thinking about this sort of stuff.

    You can pretty much guess the angle they are gonna take. The game is to blur distinctions between male and female and get kids to start thinking in those terms. If there is no standard, then much is permissible as far as gender. Normal childhood curiosity and play such as kids putting on wigs and pretending or parodying this and that becomes a matter of "gender identity" to be fostered, encouraged, etc, rather than being normally redirected, or corrected by parents, on to proper lines.
  9. This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding.
     
    Comment of the Day, and in just 22 words.
    , @Southfarthing

    "This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding."
     
    No, look at the big picture. Technology is going to allow people to freely change their body's shape.
  10. I remember feeling some attraction to girls in Grade 2, but it really wasn’t until Grade 8 that everything fell into place.

    Yes! I remember being highly interested in the whole issue of sex as early as Grade 2, and acquiring a certain amount of book learning as to how sex worked (we had an encyclopedia!), but it wasn’t until Grade 7 — when a little blond girl one grade above me suddenly became the most beautiful thing in the universe — that I actually felt anything! While I never had any doubts about my gender, I do remember that my thinking on the matter was not always entirely clear, and I suspect that until that point it would not have been impossible for some experience or other to have tipped me in a different direction in terms of sexual orientation.

    Read More
  11. @unpc downunder
    One of the ironies of the left-liberal transgender movement is that it deliberately ignores the majority of those males who have mild to moderate gender identity issues.

    For example, the liberal-left has little interest in the 2 to 3 percent of males who struggle to mild to moderate levels of autogynephilia (such as cross-dressers who don't desire sex changes) and nor is it interested in feminine-acting boys who grow up to be heterosexual. About 75 percent of feminine-acting boys turn out gay but 25 percent turn out straight and the later often have significant psychological problems (Michael Jackson being a good example).

    Inevitably in a liberal society there are going to be a small percentage of the male population who are awkwardly squeezed between gay and heterosexual culture, but liberal society would rather these people either came out as gay or declared themselves women trapped in men's bodies.

    Pretty much. I actually found one of the old books on the treatment of homosexuality (a local medical school was getting rid of books), and it mostly seemed to be aiming at ‘developing a heterosexual identity’–i.e., turning a gay man into a bi man, since it seems to be easier to eroticize things than de-eroticize them.

    I wonder how many gay men could become bi and live conventional lives (barring the occasional wayward thought and, really, we all have those, even if they don’t concern same-sex attraction–how many times have you thought about killing your boss)? I guess we will never know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Great point. In the past, there were fines for sodomy, which aimed at suppressing the full on gay pride trash, and helped guys with this weakness to have more fulfilling lives including families and children. Gays weren't cruelly abused, but were legitimately considered mentally ill and sinful. I mean we still generally don't approve prostitution, and it is punished mildly and stigmatized much as male homosexual activity used to be. I think the complaining about the past discrimination against gays is mostly drama.
  12. @Stogumber
    In a way, it's strange. Our society was succesful in shaping unisex clothes for adults (mostly by women adapting their boyfriends T-shirts and Jeans).
    So it ought to be easy to dress the child in unisex and leave it alone. Tell the child that there's nothing to decide ad hoc and there's plenty of time to decide later if it wants to become a man or not. But teach it the main basic abilities of both sexes.
    But parents seem to feel that they MUST enforce the child to find its "right" gender, even if that is a "trans" gender.

    Peter Frost's plea for mothers dressing little boys as girls is understandable, but completely over the edge. By the way, I wouldn't argue that Inuit raised as girls later on "became NOT ONLY husbands and fathers BUT ALSO respected shamans". In Shamanistic societies, the role of Shaman was often given to a man who did not comply with the standards and expectations for a well adjusted man.

    “In Shamanistic societies, the role of Shaman was often given to a man who did not comply with the standards and expectations for a well adjusted man.”

    Dig Dr. Sapolsky lecturing on schizotypal peronality disorder and shamanism!

    Read More
  13. “In Shamanistic societies, the role of Shaman was often given to a man who did not comply with the standards and expectations for a well adjusted man.”

    Dig Dr. Sapolsky lecturing on schizotypal peronality disorder and shamanism!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    I think Inuit are a bit different and didn't have the so called berdache tradition of gender ambiguous men in ceremonial positions. I have read that in Cambodia monks traditionally took the virginity of young girls. Anyway, the intellectually gifted are very rarely, if ever, sexual early developers.
  14. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Hepp
    I can only speak from experience. I sometimes felt like I was weaker or different from other boys. Never once did I think I therefore had more in common with girls. And neither did anyone else I knew.

    As late as the early 20th century, people accepted that little boys are more akin to little girls than to grown men.
     
    This is like Leowintin's fallacy. It seems deep when you first hear it, but when you think about it a little bit...

    Of course, little boys are more like little girls than they are to grown men. But little children are more akin to pets than they are to adults humans. It doesn't mean that there aren't serious male/female differences at an early age, or that there's a lot of confusion. Even if many boys and girls sometimes feel inadequate, only a small minority of humans ever question their gender, without massive propaganda encouraging such insanity.

    “… without massive propaganda encouraging such insanity.”

    And an extremely perverse insanity is what all this is. The deranged left has seized the microphone and will not let go.

    None of this occurs without an obliging media & so called ‘academia’, and who are they?

    It’s not going to be pretty.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Wait until we discover what biologically goes wrong and results in homosexuality or,, for that matter, the feeling that one is not his or her biological sex. Then, the left will try to block the news of it or shout down those (researchers & parents) who'll take steps to prevent it if such steps exist. That's not too far around the corner.
  15. It’s just the out of control Mommy State trying to get their Circus freak children into a government job cause no one else will hire them [the Circus' is pretty well done]. It’s a minute percentage of kids getting an enormous share of the pie. Not fair!

    Read More
  16. About 75 percent of feminine-acting boys turn out gay

    References please. And how low do you set the threshold for feminine-acting behavior? I’m wondering because I meet mothers who worry about sons who are not into team sports or not interested in “masculine” toys. That sounds like me as a child. The only toys I really liked were the puppets that my mother made out of old socks or pieces of fabric. I also had little dinosaurs that my parents bought at the Royal Ontario Museum. I never played with toy guns or G.I. Joes, unlike many other boys my age.

    I remember my mental state in Grade 2 and it was very different from my mental state after puberty. In particular, I remember thinking that girls are pretty and awfully cute. But both sexes agree on that point. I get the impression that women see feminine beauty as something they want to become, whereas men see it as something they want to possess and penetrate.

    There is overlap between transsexuality and homosexuality but the two are different phenomena. Many transsexuals fall into the category of “secondary transsexuality”: they want to acquire a feminine appearance while still engaging in sexual relations as a male. Many of them get married and become fathers.

    Peter Frost’s plea for mothers dressing little boys as girls is understandable, but completely over the edge.

    It wasn’t so much a plea as a question. If human societies have long perceived male toddlers as being sexually indeterminate, and even more female than male, then maybe this is the way we’re supposed to raise them. Maybe we’re causing problems by pushing some boys too early into boyhood.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Say, how come your comments aren't yellow, as are Ron's, Steve's and Razib's? Is there some kind of caste system?
    , @unpc downunder
    I'm not sure where you can access this information online, but it's a percentage mentioned by the politically incorrect homosexuality and autogynephilia researcher Michael Bailey:

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1916&dat=19950119&id=OhRJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QwYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1490,2143715&hl=en

    In citing this figure Bailey is talking about boys who often show explicitly feminine behaviour such as wearing girls clothing and talking about wanting to be a girl. Since he's an autogynephilia researcher his definition of feminine is likely to be pretty conservative, and isn't going to include such things as disliking contact sports or being socially shy.

    As far as transsexualism goes, autogynephilia researchers Bailey and Blanchard say just under 50 percent of transsexuals are homosexual, but about 85 percent of transvestites are heterosexual and an increasingly percentage of them are showing an interest in becoming transsexuals.

    Heterosexual male to female transsexuals themselves can range from feminine looking/acting to highly masculine looking/acting but late transitioning heterosexual transsexuals are more likely to have jobs in male-dominated professions than homosexual transsexuals.

  17. @Ron Unz
    Given the topic, I think I'll take the liberty of republishing a couple of comments I made a few days ago:

    Don't how many people already heard about it, but back a few months ago. Rep. Mike Honda, one of Silicon Valley's Congressmen, proudly announced that his 8-year-old grand-daughter was "transgender".

    He has a potentially tough primary challenger, and this might give him a significant boost...

    http://www.sfchronicle.com/nation/article/Rep-Mike-Honda-s-granddaughter-a-transgender-6151749.php

    Consider the power of media/marketing.

    If that little 8-year-old girl had declared herself to be a bunny-rabbit or an 8-year-old boy claimed he was a vampire, no one would pay any attention. But if they happen to watch a little TeeVee news, and declare themselves trans-gender, it gets into all the newspapers…

    There seems to be a higher proportion of gender confusion among some ethnicities. If those communities notice their little boys’ identification as girls is at a comparatively high rate, societal facilitation of that identification is going to be more controversial. Especially any colouring of hair and lightening of skin ect .

    Read More
    • Replies: @White Guy In Japan
    The ladyboys of Thailand are an example. Many of them feel that they are girls inside a boy's body and they report having these feelings at very early ages (6-7YO). Most of them continue having these feelings as they age and as teens or adults begin the transformation process (a few steps there).

    In Thailand there are some official restrictions to ladyboys studying childhood education and becoming school teachers but unofficially Thai society does appear to be rather accepting of them.

    http://goo.gl/Tuknah
    , @Fenris
    Anecdote I know, but I was 5^8(6^2 final height) with the start of A mustache and sexual active at 12, I went on to score in the 99th percentile on my SAT's and to become a succesful entreprenuer. I have never noticed a correlation between sexual development and intelligence before(controlling for race), though I would not be at all suprised if it ran the direction you indicate. I have never met another white male who developed as early as I did.
  18. @Schizotypal Shaman
    “In Shamanistic societies, the role of Shaman was often given to a man who did not comply with the standards and expectations for a well adjusted man.”

    Dig Dr. Sapolsky lecturing on schizotypal peronality disorder and shamanism!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WwAQqWUkpI

    I think Inuit are a bit different and didn’t have the so called berdache tradition of gender ambiguous men in ceremonial positions. I have read that in Cambodia monks traditionally took the virginity of young girls. Anyway, the intellectually gifted are very rarely, if ever, sexual early developers.

    Read More
  19. Not once in my life have I seen a “transgender” boy or anything remotely like that. This stuff is insane. Gender “reassignment” of children is child abuse of the worst kind. It’s as bad as pedophilia.

    Read More
  20. Don’t most male transsexuals choose to keep their penis (thus remaining a male) – are they really a women trapped in a man’s body? Or are they true biological male homosexuals who want to attract more men?

    Where is the divide between transsexual and homosexual – is it 90% a mental choice – not an actual physical biological determination?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    "Don’t most male transsexuals choose to keep their penis (thus remaining a male) – "

    You have bought into the bullshit of the idiot liberals. Outside of their fantasy world male or female is not determined by the presence or absence of a penis, a characteristic, not a determinant of sex, it's by chromosomes.
    If the mind is discordant with the chromosomes, the problem lies with the mind.

    For once Wiki's not bad
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome

  21. @Peter Frost
    About 75 percent of feminine-acting boys turn out gay

    References please. And how low do you set the threshold for feminine-acting behavior? I'm wondering because I meet mothers who worry about sons who are not into team sports or not interested in "masculine" toys. That sounds like me as a child. The only toys I really liked were the puppets that my mother made out of old socks or pieces of fabric. I also had little dinosaurs that my parents bought at the Royal Ontario Museum. I never played with toy guns or G.I. Joes, unlike many other boys my age.

    I remember my mental state in Grade 2 and it was very different from my mental state after puberty. In particular, I remember thinking that girls are pretty and awfully cute. But both sexes agree on that point. I get the impression that women see feminine beauty as something they want to become, whereas men see it as something they want to possess and penetrate.

    There is overlap between transsexuality and homosexuality but the two are different phenomena. Many transsexuals fall into the category of "secondary transsexuality": they want to acquire a feminine appearance while still engaging in sexual relations as a male. Many of them get married and become fathers.

    Peter Frost’s plea for mothers dressing little boys as girls is understandable, but completely over the edge.

    It wasn't so much a plea as a question. If human societies have long perceived male toddlers as being sexually indeterminate, and even more female than male, then maybe this is the way we're supposed to raise them. Maybe we're causing problems by pushing some boys too early into boyhood.

    Say, how come your comments aren’t yellow, as are Ron’s, Steve’s and Razib’s? Is there some kind of caste system?

    Read More
  22. @Polymath
    This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding.

    This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding.

    Comment of the Day, and in just 22 words.

    Read More
  23. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    How about all of us tomboys who loved all the boy stuff and were ruff and tumble sporty types who then went through puberty and came out plenty feminine, thank you very much.

    I think it is sick to push this transgender crap onto kids who are confused or just have personalities that are not typical. I mean, kids should be able to just be kids and not heavily sexualized at such young ages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Power Child
    That's a great point.

    It reminds me of a blogger who pointed out that one of the reasons it's okay for fathers to kiss their daughters is that there's a strong taboo against sexual relationships between parents and children. If you destroyed that taboo, then fathers could never kiss their daughters for fear of it being interpreted the wrong way.

  24. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Maybe we’re causing problems by pushing some boys too early into boyhood.

    Do you have boys? You don’t have to push them. They find it on their own. You can’t keep them from it.

    Read More
  25. @Anonymous
    Exactly, these younger kids aren't even into puberty yet, so sexual orientation shouldn't even be an issue at this point.

    I suspect this is really more a political move to get certain ideas inserted into the school curriculum.

    Whatever formulas they come up with for sex education, it should be something that comes into play later. Pre-pubescent kids shouldn't even be thinking about this sort of stuff.

    I suspect this is really more a political move to get certain ideas inserted into the school curriculum

    Of course its a political move, that’s the trend, and one that will expand in the future. As the reference above notes, assorted curricula are already being designed to do just that in the schools. And it will be done under the “sex education” rubric. Expect expanded legal “inclusiveness” later. The implications are already being foreshadowed re “gay” marriage.

    As one law professor argues, (Mae Kuykendall, Michigan State University), forcing all states to permit same-sex marriages “constitutionalizes” the marriage institution. So numerous family law issues from child care, to paternity to divorce, become “constitutional” questions, meaning federal bureaucrats, courts and politicos assume effective control over state and local experience and the expressed wishes of people a the local level. The Supreme Court even its its so called “rightward” mode some years back, has already caved on a number of issues. Fifty years hence it will not be surprising to see “constitutional” issues pushed by transgender/transsexual proponents, with courts standing by, perhaps to do their bidding.

    .
    Whatever formulas they come up with for sex education, it should be something that comes into play later. Pre-pubescent kids shouldn’t even be thinking about this sort of stuff.

    You can pretty much guess the angle they are gonna take. The game is to blur distinctions between male and female and get kids to start thinking in those terms. If there is no standard, then much is permissible as far as gender. Normal childhood curiosity and play such as kids putting on wigs and pretending or parodying this and that becomes a matter of “gender identity” to be fostered, encouraged, etc, rather than being normally redirected, or corrected by parents, on to proper lines.

    Read More
    • Replies: @e
    They can't do the simplest math, don't know the country from whom we gained our independence, don't know a thing about the Civil War or WW1 or 2 or whatever, but by gawd, they'll know Gay History. High school?

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/22/lgbt-studies-course-at-san-francisco-high-school-may-be-1st-in-nation/
  26. @Art
    Don’t most male transsexuals choose to keep their penis (thus remaining a male) – are they really a women trapped in a man’s body? Or are they true biological male homosexuals who want to attract more men?

    Where is the divide between transsexual and homosexual – is it 90% a mental choice – not an actual physical biological determination?

    “Don’t most male transsexuals choose to keep their penis (thus remaining a male) – ”

    You have bought into the bullshit of the idiot liberals. Outside of their fantasy world male or female is not determined by the presence or absence of a penis, a characteristic, not a determinant of sex, it’s by chromosomes.
    If the mind is discordant with the chromosomes, the problem lies with the mind.

    For once Wiki’s not bad

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome

    Read More
  27. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @SFG
    Pretty much. I actually found one of the old books on the treatment of homosexuality (a local medical school was getting rid of books), and it mostly seemed to be aiming at 'developing a heterosexual identity'--i.e., turning a gay man into a bi man, since it seems to be easier to eroticize things than de-eroticize them.

    I wonder how many gay men could become bi and live conventional lives (barring the occasional wayward thought and, really, we all have those, even if they don't concern same-sex attraction--how many times have you thought about killing your boss)? I guess we will never know.

    Great point. In the past, there were fines for sodomy, which aimed at suppressing the full on gay pride trash, and helped guys with this weakness to have more fulfilling lives including families and children. Gays weren’t cruelly abused, but were legitimately considered mentally ill and sinful. I mean we still generally don’t approve prostitution, and it is punished mildly and stigmatized much as male homosexual activity used to be. I think the complaining about the past discrimination against gays is mostly drama.

    Read More
  28. @Anonymous
    How about all of us tomboys who loved all the boy stuff and were ruff and tumble sporty types who then went through puberty and came out plenty feminine, thank you very much.

    I think it is sick to push this transgender crap onto kids who are confused or just have personalities that are not typical. I mean, kids should be able to just be kids and not heavily sexualized at such young ages.

    That’s a great point.

    It reminds me of a blogger who pointed out that one of the reasons it’s okay for fathers to kiss their daughters is that there’s a strong taboo against sexual relationships between parents and children. If you destroyed that taboo, then fathers could never kiss their daughters for fear of it being interpreted the wrong way.

    Read More
    • Replies: @IBC
    Yes. It's ironic that in some places like Saudi Arabia, where homosexual behavior can be a capital offense, male friends actually walk around holding hands:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtzpQf3O1K4
  29. @Sean
    There seems to be a higher proportion of gender confusion among some ethnicities. If those communities notice their little boys' identification as girls is at a comparatively high rate, societal facilitation of that identification is going to be more controversial. Especially any colouring of hair and lightening of skin ect .

    The ladyboys of Thailand are an example. Many of them feel that they are girls inside a boy’s body and they report having these feelings at very early ages (6-7YO). Most of them continue having these feelings as they age and as teens or adults begin the transformation process (a few steps there).

    In Thailand there are some official restrictions to ladyboys studying childhood education and becoming school teachers but unofficially Thai society does appear to be rather accepting of them.

    http://goo.gl/Tuknah

    Read More
  30. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Wally
    "... without massive propaganda encouraging such insanity."

    And an extremely perverse insanity is what all this is. The deranged left has seized the microphone and will not let go.

    None of this occurs without an obliging media & so called 'academia', and who are they?

    It's not going to be pretty.

    Wait until we discover what biologically goes wrong and results in homosexuality or,, for that matter, the feeling that one is not his or her biological sex. Then, the left will try to block the news of it or shout down those (researchers & parents) who’ll take steps to prevent it if such steps exist. That’s not too far around the corner.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    Actually some on the Left may WELCOME such "biological" news, for then questions of morality can be dismissed. It it is biological then it is all part of the natural order, to be embraced, not questioned or critiqued. And if it is "biological" then why should parents try to take steps to prevent or reverse it?
    , @Guest
    Everyone already knows one big cause of homosexuality, or at least something which precedes it with regularity far beyond coincidence, and that's childhood sexual abuse. There is and isn't a blackout on this phenomenon; you'll see it laid out dramatically on tv and in movies, but talking heads won't explain it rationally.
  31. @Anonymous
    Wait until we discover what biologically goes wrong and results in homosexuality or,, for that matter, the feeling that one is not his or her biological sex. Then, the left will try to block the news of it or shout down those (researchers & parents) who'll take steps to prevent it if such steps exist. That's not too far around the corner.

    Actually some on the Left may WELCOME such “biological” news, for then questions of morality can be dismissed. It it is biological then it is all part of the natural order, to be embraced, not questioned or critiqued. And if it is “biological” then why should parents try to take steps to prevent or reverse it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @e
    Well, yes, surely some will welcome it.

    However, all kinds of conditions are biological in origin but are UN-welcome.

    Should, for example, a viral infection or inflammatory response to it be responsible for destroying brain cells that identify a suitable mate, one with whom the subject can reproduce and one with whom the subject WISHES to mate, you'd find parents and grandparents more than just a little interested in seeing to it their genetic offspring is given every chance to avoid exposure to the bug or is inoculated against it.

  32. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    There’s no way you can be sure until puberty. It’s a crime like the fad for lobotomies in the US in the 1920s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @e
    It’s a crime like the fad for lobotomies in the US in the 1920s.

    That's a great line for opponents of this insanity to repeat in every interview.
  33. Don’t most male transsexuals choose to keep their penis (thus remaining a male) – are they really a women trapped in a man’s body? Or are they true biological male homosexuals who want to attract more men?

    Male-to-female transsexuals seem to fall into two groups:

    “Currently the predominant cultural understanding of male-to-female transsexualism is that all male-to-female (MtF) transsexuals are, essentially, women trapped in men’s bodies. This understanding has little scientific basis, however, and is inconsistent with clinical observations. Ray Blanchard has shown that there are two distinct subtypes of MtF transsexuals. Members of one subtype, homosexual transsexuals, are best understood as a type of homosexual male. The other subtype, autogynephilic transsexuals, are motivated by the erotic desire to become women. The persistence of the predominant cultural understanding, while explicable, is damaging to science and to many transsexuals.”

    http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/pbm/summary/v050/50.4bailey.html

    Where is the divide between transsexual and homosexual – is it 90% a mental choice – not an actual physical biological determination?

    You’re postulating an unrealistic distinction between mind and biology. Our hormonal state and our degree of physical maturation influence the way we think.

    You don’t have to push (boys). They find it on their own. You can’t keep them from it.

    That was my argument. Boys should be allowed to assert their gender identity at their own pace during the critical years of pre-puberty. Keep in mind that different boys mature at different rates, both physically and psychologically.

    You can pretty much guess the angle they are gonna take.

    The problem isn’t really “they.” This is the same misconception when “they” means “blacks,” “Muslims,” or almost any minority. The problem lies in the majority culture, which perceives any criticism of minorities as hateful and illegitimate. We need to get over that and accept that all people are subject to criticism.

    male or female is not determined by the presence or absence of a penis, a characteristic, not a determinant of sex, it’s by chromosomes.

    Chromosomes are the human blueprint, but many things can happen during development. If you lose your leg in an accident, is this loss unreal because the genetic instructions for creating a leg are still in your genes?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    Physical anthropologists use different criteria for determining the sex of skeletal remains depending on ethnicity. presumably the level of prenatal testoronisation is different.

    The problem isn’t really “they.” This is the same misconception when “they” means “blacks,” “Muslims,” or almost any minority. The problem lies in the majority culture, which perceives any criticism of minorities as hateful and illegitimate. We need to get over that and accept that all people are subject to criticism.
     
    In the majority culture whites get credit for self consciously disparaging those 'designated white'. Gender Reassignment of future white men may currently be thought to be a good thing, but when it is found to disproportionately be Gender Reassignment of non white boys there will be a reassessment.

    The doctors making a nice living by a performing particular procedure are hardly the most reliable source for information about it. Circumcision was like that, promoted by doctors until everyone accepted it as a medical necessity, but then immigrants altered the perception. Now it is becoming very controversial.
  34. @Enrique Cardova
    Actually some on the Left may WELCOME such "biological" news, for then questions of morality can be dismissed. It it is biological then it is all part of the natural order, to be embraced, not questioned or critiqued. And if it is "biological" then why should parents try to take steps to prevent or reverse it?

    Well, yes, surely some will welcome it.

    However, all kinds of conditions are biological in origin but are UN-welcome.

    Should, for example, a viral infection or inflammatory response to it be responsible for destroying brain cells that identify a suitable mate, one with whom the subject can reproduce and one with whom the subject WISHES to mate, you’d find parents and grandparents more than just a little interested in seeing to it their genetic offspring is given every chance to avoid exposure to the bug or is inoculated against it.

    Read More
  35. @Power Child
    That's a great point.

    It reminds me of a blogger who pointed out that one of the reasons it's okay for fathers to kiss their daughters is that there's a strong taboo against sexual relationships between parents and children. If you destroyed that taboo, then fathers could never kiss their daughters for fear of it being interpreted the wrong way.

    Yes. It’s ironic that in some places like Saudi Arabia, where homosexual behavior can be a capital offense, male friends actually walk around holding hands:

    Read More
    • Replies: @Power Child
    Yep, exactly the point.
    , @Enrique Cardova
    But in that culture males holding hands is not considered a marker of homosexuality as it would be in America.
  36. @IBC
    Yes. It's ironic that in some places like Saudi Arabia, where homosexual behavior can be a capital offense, male friends actually walk around holding hands:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtzpQf3O1K4

    Yep, exactly the point.

    Read More
  37. @Peter Frost
    Don’t most male transsexuals choose to keep their penis (thus remaining a male) – are they really a women trapped in a man’s body? Or are they true biological male homosexuals who want to attract more men?

    Male-to-female transsexuals seem to fall into two groups:

    "Currently the predominant cultural understanding of male-to-female transsexualism is that all male-to-female (MtF) transsexuals are, essentially, women trapped in men's bodies. This understanding has little scientific basis, however, and is inconsistent with clinical observations. Ray Blanchard has shown that there are two distinct subtypes of MtF transsexuals. Members of one subtype, homosexual transsexuals, are best understood as a type of homosexual male. The other subtype, autogynephilic transsexuals, are motivated by the erotic desire to become women. The persistence of the predominant cultural understanding, while explicable, is damaging to science and to many transsexuals."

    http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/pbm/summary/v050/50.4bailey.html

    Where is the divide between transsexual and homosexual – is it 90% a mental choice – not an actual physical biological determination?

    You're postulating an unrealistic distinction between mind and biology. Our hormonal state and our degree of physical maturation influence the way we think.

    You don’t have to push (boys). They find it on their own. You can’t keep them from it.

    That was my argument. Boys should be allowed to assert their gender identity at their own pace during the critical years of pre-puberty. Keep in mind that different boys mature at different rates, both physically and psychologically.

    You can pretty much guess the angle they are gonna take.

    The problem isn't really "they." This is the same misconception when "they" means "blacks," "Muslims," or almost any minority. The problem lies in the majority culture, which perceives any criticism of minorities as hateful and illegitimate. We need to get over that and accept that all people are subject to criticism.

    male or female is not determined by the presence or absence of a penis, a characteristic, not a determinant of sex, it’s by chromosomes.

    Chromosomes are the human blueprint, but many things can happen during development. If you lose your leg in an accident, is this loss unreal because the genetic instructions for creating a leg are still in your genes?

    Physical anthropologists use different criteria for determining the sex of skeletal remains depending on ethnicity. presumably the level of prenatal testoronisation is different.

    The problem isn’t really “they.” This is the same misconception when “they” means “blacks,” “Muslims,” or almost any minority. The problem lies in the majority culture, which perceives any criticism of minorities as hateful and illegitimate. We need to get over that and accept that all people are subject to criticism.

    In the majority culture whites get credit for self consciously disparaging those ‘designated white’. Gender Reassignment of future white men may currently be thought to be a good thing, but when it is found to disproportionately be Gender Reassignment of non white boys there will be a reassessment.

    The doctors making a nice living by a performing particular procedure are hardly the most reliable source for information about it. Circumcision was like that, promoted by doctors until everyone accepted it as a medical necessity, but then immigrants altered the perception. Now it is becoming very controversial.

    Read More
  38. My mother had the same observation that many do these days: put boy and girl toys in a box, and watch most boys drawn to the mechanical and war toys, and most girls drawn to the pretty dolls.

    Read More
  39. @Polymath
    This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding.

    “This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding.”

    No, look at the big picture. Technology is going to allow people to freely change their body’s shape.

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73
    Then if you own stock in a health-club chain, sell. Who's gonna need free weights and Cybex machines when you can be as buff as you want at the push of a button?

    We'll all be alpha.
    , @anon
    There is no way these kids can be sure until puberty.

    It's a crime.
  40. @Southfarthing

    "This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding."
     
    No, look at the big picture. Technology is going to allow people to freely change their body's shape.

    Then if you own stock in a health-club chain, sell. Who’s gonna need free weights and Cybex machines when you can be as buff as you want at the push of a button?

    We’ll all be alpha.

    Read More
  41. @Enrique Cardova
    Peter says:
    The transgender community likes to talk a good talk about “gender fluidity.” Ironically, such fluidity is reduced by gender reassignment, which imposes a relatively unchanging adult dichotomy on pre-pubertal individuals who are going through rapid physical and psychological change. This brings us to a second irony. The transgender community complains about how it was once medically pathologized. Yet here it is pathologizing cases of gender confusion that are not unusual among young children and that are consistent with normal child development.

    Indeed. And this is going to be one of the new battlegrounds or areas of controversy, particularly in Western societies in the decades to come- the "fluidity" or fundamental blurring of identity between male and female. Already some in "the community" insist on immunity from criticism, or that criticism be muted, or try to intimidate critics and skeptics in some "politically correct" venues.


    .
    So if you have a young boy who’s confused about his gender identity, the chances are very good that he’ll successfully transition to manhood …

    True enough. Such confusion and uncertainty, which is nothing extraordinary, and in past generations was routinely redirected, can be fixed by normal socialization. But there seems to be a movement afoot or potential movement to disparage normal socialization as "patriarchal" or "phobic." Hence TIME magazine celebrates the camp for transgendered kids below- setting up the "PC" view the smart set are expected to adopt. From there it will build- the trendy, fashionable thing. From that, schools and so on gradually incorporate it into the approved meme. What is now "Gender Identity Disorder" will cease to be a "disorder" and become a new orthodoxy to be accepted. And it keeps going. The precedent has already been set by "gay" marriage.

    http://time.com/3743987/gender-creative-kids/

    Kid "getting in touch" with his 'female' side
    http://millana.tumblr.com/image/55612822737

    At the rate we’re going, having an identity will be considered a disorder.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    lol, it is scary to think what it will be 50 years from now. Some are comfortable with the term "disorder," but many transsexual/transgender activists reject the word because it implies that there is something "abnormal" or "wrong". The overall pattern is to "normalize" what was once considered abnormal or deviant- defining deviant down- so that you can get rid of any moral stigma or judgment. And once down the slippery slope, it keeps going. Today we consider adult-child sex wrong, but as such behavior is continuously defined down or "normalized" then it tends to be adopted without any moral judgment by the majority. Which is the objective..

    Fifty-sixty years ago almost all Americans would have laughed in disbelief at "gay" marriage. There was no precedent for something like that - gay affairs and friendships yes, tacitly accepted sometimes with a nod and a wink, and a discreet "live and let live" tolerance, but nothing like marriage. Now it is not only "normalized" but considered "incorrect" to express any moral disapproval in certain venues. Re the international front, one hears the naive question- "why to "they" hate us? - the "they" being people like many Muslims and so on. Well "they" tell us quite openly- citing the West's moral decadence. But somehow this part doesn't get the press coverage or public discussion among the smart set, or within the institutions they control. It gets transmuted into they hate us because of "democracy" and "freedom" and so on. That serves to skip over critical questions about moral decadence.
  42. @IBC
    Yes. It's ironic that in some places like Saudi Arabia, where homosexual behavior can be a capital offense, male friends actually walk around holding hands:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtzpQf3O1K4

    But in that culture males holding hands is not considered a marker of homosexuality as it would be in America.

    Read More
  43. @njguy73
    At the rate we're going, having an identity will be considered a disorder.

    lol, it is scary to think what it will be 50 years from now. Some are comfortable with the term “disorder,” but many transsexual/transgender activists reject the word because it implies that there is something “abnormal” or “wrong”. The overall pattern is to “normalize” what was once considered abnormal or deviant- defining deviant down- so that you can get rid of any moral stigma or judgment. And once down the slippery slope, it keeps going. Today we consider adult-child sex wrong, but as such behavior is continuously defined down or “normalized” then it tends to be adopted without any moral judgment by the majority. Which is the objective..

    Fifty-sixty years ago almost all Americans would have laughed in disbelief at “gay” marriage. There was no precedent for something like that – gay affairs and friendships yes, tacitly accepted sometimes with a nod and a wink, and a discreet “live and let live” tolerance, but nothing like marriage. Now it is not only “normalized” but considered “incorrect” to express any moral disapproval in certain venues. Re the international front, one hears the naive question- “why to “they” hate us? – the “they” being people like many Muslims and so on. Well “they” tell us quite openly- citing the West’s moral decadence. But somehow this part doesn’t get the press coverage or public discussion among the smart set, or within the institutions they control. It gets transmuted into they hate us because of “democracy” and “freedom” and so on. That serves to skip over critical questions about moral decadence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wally
    Indeed. And that is one of the prime reasons for the current US & European antagonism of Russia. Russia clearly wants no part of this illness.

    Thanks.

  44. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Enrique Cardova
    lol, it is scary to think what it will be 50 years from now. Some are comfortable with the term "disorder," but many transsexual/transgender activists reject the word because it implies that there is something "abnormal" or "wrong". The overall pattern is to "normalize" what was once considered abnormal or deviant- defining deviant down- so that you can get rid of any moral stigma or judgment. And once down the slippery slope, it keeps going. Today we consider adult-child sex wrong, but as such behavior is continuously defined down or "normalized" then it tends to be adopted without any moral judgment by the majority. Which is the objective..

    Fifty-sixty years ago almost all Americans would have laughed in disbelief at "gay" marriage. There was no precedent for something like that - gay affairs and friendships yes, tacitly accepted sometimes with a nod and a wink, and a discreet "live and let live" tolerance, but nothing like marriage. Now it is not only "normalized" but considered "incorrect" to express any moral disapproval in certain venues. Re the international front, one hears the naive question- "why to "they" hate us? - the "they" being people like many Muslims and so on. Well "they" tell us quite openly- citing the West's moral decadence. But somehow this part doesn't get the press coverage or public discussion among the smart set, or within the institutions they control. It gets transmuted into they hate us because of "democracy" and "freedom" and so on. That serves to skip over critical questions about moral decadence.

    Indeed. And that is one of the prime reasons for the current US & European antagonism of Russia. Russia clearly wants no part of this illness.

    Thanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    Yes, the Russians no doubt have their share of transsexuals, but it is kept under the table, or dealt with in a muted, discreet way, not feted and celebrated, or given institutional support as in certain American "PC" venues. Caitlyn Jenner would have gotten little change in the Russian media, compared with America. To recognize this does not have to mean full "approval" of all Russian policy and practice when these questions come up, but it should also be noted that the Russian constitution guarantees protection for LGBTs though the degree of implementation is open to debate, and sex between men has been decriminalized since 1993, and transgender surgery is legal in certain cases, such as with approved medical diagnosis. So Russia is not the primitive, brutish land as such, but still it seems more willing to maintain certain principles than an increasingly decadent West. Even the current Russian Orthodox Church seems more willing to stand up for old line principles that more "progressive" denominations in the West.
  45. @Sean
    There seems to be a higher proportion of gender confusion among some ethnicities. If those communities notice their little boys' identification as girls is at a comparatively high rate, societal facilitation of that identification is going to be more controversial. Especially any colouring of hair and lightening of skin ect .

    Anecdote I know, but I was 5^8(6^2 final height) with the start of A mustache and sexual active at 12, I went on to score in the 99th percentile on my SAT’s and to become a succesful entreprenuer. I have never noticed a correlation between sexual development and intelligence before(controlling for race), though I would not be at all suprised if it ran the direction you indicate. I have never met another white male who developed as early as I did.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    One theory why boys don't develop secondary sexual characteristics as soon as they are capable of fathering children is it's to avoid fully grown males seeing them a threat. I don't think it would be safe to look much older than your age.
  46. @Peter Frost
    About 75 percent of feminine-acting boys turn out gay

    References please. And how low do you set the threshold for feminine-acting behavior? I'm wondering because I meet mothers who worry about sons who are not into team sports or not interested in "masculine" toys. That sounds like me as a child. The only toys I really liked were the puppets that my mother made out of old socks or pieces of fabric. I also had little dinosaurs that my parents bought at the Royal Ontario Museum. I never played with toy guns or G.I. Joes, unlike many other boys my age.

    I remember my mental state in Grade 2 and it was very different from my mental state after puberty. In particular, I remember thinking that girls are pretty and awfully cute. But both sexes agree on that point. I get the impression that women see feminine beauty as something they want to become, whereas men see it as something they want to possess and penetrate.

    There is overlap between transsexuality and homosexuality but the two are different phenomena. Many transsexuals fall into the category of "secondary transsexuality": they want to acquire a feminine appearance while still engaging in sexual relations as a male. Many of them get married and become fathers.

    Peter Frost’s plea for mothers dressing little boys as girls is understandable, but completely over the edge.

    It wasn't so much a plea as a question. If human societies have long perceived male toddlers as being sexually indeterminate, and even more female than male, then maybe this is the way we're supposed to raise them. Maybe we're causing problems by pushing some boys too early into boyhood.

    I’m not sure where you can access this information online, but it’s a percentage mentioned by the politically incorrect homosexuality and autogynephilia researcher Michael Bailey:

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1916&dat=19950119&id=OhRJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QwYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1490,2143715&hl=en

    In citing this figure Bailey is talking about boys who often show explicitly feminine behaviour such as wearing girls clothing and talking about wanting to be a girl. Since he’s an autogynephilia researcher his definition of feminine is likely to be pretty conservative, and isn’t going to include such things as disliking contact sports or being socially shy.

    As far as transsexualism goes, autogynephilia researchers Bailey and Blanchard say just under 50 percent of transsexuals are homosexual, but about 85 percent of transvestites are heterosexual and an increasingly percentage of them are showing an interest in becoming transsexuals.

    Heterosexual male to female transsexuals themselves can range from feminine looking/acting to highly masculine looking/acting but late transitioning heterosexual transsexuals are more likely to have jobs in male-dominated professions than homosexual transsexuals.

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  47. Better question: does “gender reassignment” help anyone, ever? At best it’s playacting. The entire psychiatric profession sometimes appears to me like the supporting cast of “Lars and the Real Doll.” They humor people for a living.

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  48. Gender confusion is popping up high schools. But there is a catch. I’m reminded of our daughter’s high school friends — female — circa 2012 who would announce to their cliques that, yes, they do not have boyfriends … because they are Lesbian (as immanent discoveries). To declare themselves Lesbian was a way of saving grace to avoid the rejection and humiliation associated with being without a boyfriend until one mysteriously materialized. One wonders if the alleged gender confusion of many males suffering late puberty has a similar ring. Likewise, to declare themselves trangendered within the latest pop culture is a way of saving grace for them to avoid the onus of rejection and humiliation if they appear feminine (their voice hasn’t broken yet), are hopeless in sports, or are socially awkward with the opposite sex. My suspicion is that gender confusion among youth has more to do with teenage politics and social life than science.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    This is possible and for girls declaring themselves "lesbian" has less stigma than a male declaring himself "gay", at least for now. Boys declaring themselves "gay" have to put up with a degree of "sissy" ridicule to a larger extent than girls declaring among similar lines. That may change in a few years. (All teens of course face ridicule from peers for one reason or another) During the early "gay" marriage battles, the primary media image put out there for said marriages was usually two women, who culturally, would tend to excite less initial opposition, and attract more sympathy.

    But on the other hand, there are moves towards making it much more than a matter of teen politics. Books are being written, curricula are being put in place in schools, and "speech guidelines" are being laid down on college campuses so that the denizens therein have "correct" thoughts. The struggles of UNC-Wilmington Professor Mike Adams offers plenty of documentation. Adams has fallen foul of local gay "thought police" quite frequently.

    The homosexual community cautions teens to be well prepared before "coming out" but they are also increasingly now pressuring teens to declare themselves, to show they are gay and proud. And there are now a large number of support groups and networks for teens confused about the "gay" side, or choosing such. All of it is linked via the web ensuring quick and efficient transmission and coordination of information, images and organizational assists. This support network however is only extended if the teen "comes out" or is actively working towards "coming out." For transsexuals a similar pattern seems to be emerging. Caitlyn Jenner would have been an anomaly 50 years ago. Now "she" is feted and celebrated by the smart set.

    One well known gay publication- The Advocate- even speaks of a "Gay Teen Revolution" (2005). The agenda is underway and gathering steam, so that more and more youth are sucked into the machinery. Most likely transsexuals will increasingly also form support networks and acquire institutional support, power and favorable media.
  49. I agree with most of Michael Bailey’s analysis, although there seems to be a contradiction between his estimate that 75% of “very feminine boys” will become gay adults and the research at Vanderbilt and Portland, which indicates that 70 to 80% of cases of gender confusion will spontaneously clear up on their own.

    I see three possible explanations:

    1. Worried parents are consulting doctors for mild cases of gender confusion, i.e., occasional dressing up like a girl, lack of interest in “boy interests.”

    2. Bailey is working with an unrepresentative sample.

    3. There may be an age effect. If a boy exhibits feminine behavior close to puberty, when testosterone levels are higher, there is a greater probability that his transsexuality is hardwired and less susceptible to change. I notice that a lot of cases of gender confusion involve children who are quite young, sometimes not even of school age. Those cases may be more malleable and likelier to disappear over time.

    The article you attached seems to contradict Bailey’s most recent publications, which argue that most male-to-female transsexuals are not homosexual, but rather male heterosexuals who fantasize about having a feminine appearance. It may be that this kind of transsexuality has become more common over the past two decades, and Bailey seems to support this interpretation when he states that more transvestites are becoming interested in becoming transsexuals. This may be a reflection of easier access to estrogen treatment and reduced inhibition against trying this sort of thing. Or it may reflect the growing population of “surplus” single males who have no female partner to talk them out of it.

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  50. @Enrique Cardova
    I suspect this is really more a political move to get certain ideas inserted into the school curriculum

    Of course its a political move, that's the trend, and one that will expand in the future. As the reference above notes, assorted curricula are already being designed to do just that in the schools. And it will be done under the "sex education" rubric. Expect expanded legal "inclusiveness" later. The implications are already being foreshadowed re "gay" marriage.

    As one law professor argues, (Mae Kuykendall, Michigan State University), forcing all states to permit same-sex marriages "constitutionalizes" the marriage institution. So numerous family law issues from child care, to paternity to divorce, become "constitutional" questions, meaning federal bureaucrats, courts and politicos assume effective control over state and local experience and the expressed wishes of people a the local level. The Supreme Court even its its so called "rightward" mode some years back, has already caved on a number of issues. Fifty years hence it will not be surprising to see "constitutional" issues pushed by transgender/transsexual proponents, with courts standing by, perhaps to do their bidding.


    .
    Whatever formulas they come up with for sex education, it should be something that comes into play later. Pre-pubescent kids shouldn’t even be thinking about this sort of stuff.

    You can pretty much guess the angle they are gonna take. The game is to blur distinctions between male and female and get kids to start thinking in those terms. If there is no standard, then much is permissible as far as gender. Normal childhood curiosity and play such as kids putting on wigs and pretending or parodying this and that becomes a matter of "gender identity" to be fostered, encouraged, etc, rather than being normally redirected, or corrected by parents, on to proper lines.

    They can’t do the simplest math, don’t know the country from whom we gained our independence, don’t know a thing about the Civil War or WW1 or 2 or whatever, but by gawd, they’ll know Gay History. High school?

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/06/22/lgbt-studies-course-at-san-francisco-high-school-may-be-1st-in-nation/

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  51. @anon
    There's no way you can be sure until puberty. It's a crime like the fad for lobotomies in the US in the 1920s.

    It’s a crime like the fad for lobotomies in the US in the 1920s.

    That’s a great line for opponents of this insanity to repeat in every interview.

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  52. @Fenris
    Anecdote I know, but I was 5^8(6^2 final height) with the start of A mustache and sexual active at 12, I went on to score in the 99th percentile on my SAT's and to become a succesful entreprenuer. I have never noticed a correlation between sexual development and intelligence before(controlling for race), though I would not be at all suprised if it ran the direction you indicate. I have never met another white male who developed as early as I did.

    One theory why boys don’t develop secondary sexual characteristics as soon as they are capable of fathering children is it’s to avoid fully grown males seeing them a threat. I don’t think it would be safe to look much older than your age.

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73
    Are you saying that as a defense mechanism, the bodies of young males hold back on developing secondary sexual characteristics? Would it follow that young males develop those characteristics in inverse proportion to the masculinity of males in their circle? So if you want to develop a manly man, surround him with not-so-manly men as to make his hormones feel less threatened and more free to bloom?
  53. @Sean
    One theory why boys don't develop secondary sexual characteristics as soon as they are capable of fathering children is it's to avoid fully grown males seeing them a threat. I don't think it would be safe to look much older than your age.

    Are you saying that as a defense mechanism, the bodies of young males hold back on developing secondary sexual characteristics? Would it follow that young males develop those characteristics in inverse proportion to the masculinity of males in their circle? So if you want to develop a manly man, surround him with not-so-manly men as to make his hormones feel less threatened and more free to bloom?

    Read More
  54. One factor in why Emmett Till got killed was he looked like a man rather than the 14 year old boy he was. You can get away with being a jackass as a kid, if you look like a kid.

    I suppose being around tougher boys and being bullied has an effect. Bullying may well have the function of eliminating competition for the tougher boys. It certainly is involved in animal dominance hierarchies that eliminate individual creatures from reproduction.

    Read More
    • Replies: @njguy73
    Boys get bullied for being too masculine and thus threatening, and for being too effeminate and thus easy prey.

    Girls get bullied for being too pretty and invoking jealously, and for being not pretty enough.

    It's like the quest to make everyone equal is more oppressive than the quest to establish and keep hierarchies.
  55. @TheJester
    Gender confusion is popping up high schools. But there is a catch. I'm reminded of our daughter's high school friends -- female -- circa 2012 who would announce to their cliques that, yes, they do not have boyfriends ... because they are Lesbian (as immanent discoveries). To declare themselves Lesbian was a way of saving grace to avoid the rejection and humiliation associated with being without a boyfriend until one mysteriously materialized. One wonders if the alleged gender confusion of many males suffering late puberty has a similar ring. Likewise, to declare themselves trangendered within the latest pop culture is a way of saving grace for them to avoid the onus of rejection and humiliation if they appear feminine (their voice hasn't broken yet), are hopeless in sports, or are socially awkward with the opposite sex. My suspicion is that gender confusion among youth has more to do with teenage politics and social life than science.

    This is possible and for girls declaring themselves “lesbian” has less stigma than a male declaring himself “gay”, at least for now. Boys declaring themselves “gay” have to put up with a degree of “sissy” ridicule to a larger extent than girls declaring among similar lines. That may change in a few years. (All teens of course face ridicule from peers for one reason or another) During the early “gay” marriage battles, the primary media image put out there for said marriages was usually two women, who culturally, would tend to excite less initial opposition, and attract more sympathy.

    But on the other hand, there are moves towards making it much more than a matter of teen politics. Books are being written, curricula are being put in place in schools, and “speech guidelines” are being laid down on college campuses so that the denizens therein have “correct” thoughts. The struggles of UNC-Wilmington Professor Mike Adams offers plenty of documentation. Adams has fallen foul of local gay “thought police” quite frequently.

    The homosexual community cautions teens to be well prepared before “coming out” but they are also increasingly now pressuring teens to declare themselves, to show they are gay and proud. And there are now a large number of support groups and networks for teens confused about the “gay” side, or choosing such. All of it is linked via the web ensuring quick and efficient transmission and coordination of information, images and organizational assists. This support network however is only extended if the teen “comes out” or is actively working towards “coming out.” For transsexuals a similar pattern seems to be emerging. Caitlyn Jenner would have been an anomaly 50 years ago. Now “she” is feted and celebrated by the smart set.

    One well known gay publication- The Advocate- even speaks of a “Gay Teen Revolution” (2005). The agenda is underway and gathering steam, so that more and more youth are sucked into the machinery. Most likely transsexuals will increasingly also form support networks and acquire institutional support, power and favorable media.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    "girls declaring themselves 'lesbian' has less stigma than a male declaring himself gay, at least for now"

    I imagine that'll always be so, though there are of course ways for our civilization to go ever more mad than I can predict. Not that such things are rational, but there are obvious reasons why lesbianism is viewed as more innocent, fleeting, and sweet than the other kind. It has a lot to do with the psychologies of the sexes and a lot a lot to do with the equipment involved.

  56. @Wally
    Indeed. And that is one of the prime reasons for the current US & European antagonism of Russia. Russia clearly wants no part of this illness.

    Thanks.

    Yes, the Russians no doubt have their share of transsexuals, but it is kept under the table, or dealt with in a muted, discreet way, not feted and celebrated, or given institutional support as in certain American “PC” venues. Caitlyn Jenner would have gotten little change in the Russian media, compared with America. To recognize this does not have to mean full “approval” of all Russian policy and practice when these questions come up, but it should also be noted that the Russian constitution guarantees protection for LGBTs though the degree of implementation is open to debate, and sex between men has been decriminalized since 1993, and transgender surgery is legal in certain cases, such as with approved medical diagnosis. So Russia is not the primitive, brutish land as such, but still it seems more willing to maintain certain principles than an increasingly decadent West. Even the current Russian Orthodox Church seems more willing to stand up for old line principles that more “progressive” denominations in the West.

    Read More
  57. @Sean
    One factor in why Emmett Till got killed was he looked like a man rather than the 14 year old boy he was. You can get away with being a jackass as a kid, if you look like a kid.

    I suppose being around tougher boys and being bullied has an effect. Bullying may well have the function of eliminating competition for the tougher boys. It certainly is involved in animal dominance hierarchies that eliminate individual creatures from reproduction.

    Boys get bullied for being too masculine and thus threatening, and for being too effeminate and thus easy prey.

    Girls get bullied for being too pretty and invoking jealously, and for being not pretty enough.

    It’s like the quest to make everyone equal is more oppressive than the quest to establish and keep hierarchies.

    Read More
  58. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Southfarthing

    "This is an extreme form of child abuse which historians 100 years hence will view the same way we view Chinese foot-binding."
     
    No, look at the big picture. Technology is going to allow people to freely change their body's shape.

    There is no way these kids can be sure until puberty.

    It’s a crime.

    Read More
  59. @Enrique Cardova
    This is possible and for girls declaring themselves "lesbian" has less stigma than a male declaring himself "gay", at least for now. Boys declaring themselves "gay" have to put up with a degree of "sissy" ridicule to a larger extent than girls declaring among similar lines. That may change in a few years. (All teens of course face ridicule from peers for one reason or another) During the early "gay" marriage battles, the primary media image put out there for said marriages was usually two women, who culturally, would tend to excite less initial opposition, and attract more sympathy.

    But on the other hand, there are moves towards making it much more than a matter of teen politics. Books are being written, curricula are being put in place in schools, and "speech guidelines" are being laid down on college campuses so that the denizens therein have "correct" thoughts. The struggles of UNC-Wilmington Professor Mike Adams offers plenty of documentation. Adams has fallen foul of local gay "thought police" quite frequently.

    The homosexual community cautions teens to be well prepared before "coming out" but they are also increasingly now pressuring teens to declare themselves, to show they are gay and proud. And there are now a large number of support groups and networks for teens confused about the "gay" side, or choosing such. All of it is linked via the web ensuring quick and efficient transmission and coordination of information, images and organizational assists. This support network however is only extended if the teen "comes out" or is actively working towards "coming out." For transsexuals a similar pattern seems to be emerging. Caitlyn Jenner would have been an anomaly 50 years ago. Now "she" is feted and celebrated by the smart set.

    One well known gay publication- The Advocate- even speaks of a "Gay Teen Revolution" (2005). The agenda is underway and gathering steam, so that more and more youth are sucked into the machinery. Most likely transsexuals will increasingly also form support networks and acquire institutional support, power and favorable media.

    “girls declaring themselves ‘lesbian’ has less stigma than a male declaring himself gay, at least for now”

    I imagine that’ll always be so, though there are of course ways for our civilization to go ever more mad than I can predict. Not that such things are rational, but there are obvious reasons why lesbianism is viewed as more innocent, fleeting, and sweet than the other kind. It has a lot to do with the psychologies of the sexes and a lot a lot to do with the equipment involved.

    Read More
  60. To declare themselves Lesbian was a way of saving grace to avoid the rejection and humiliation associated with being without a boyfriend until one mysteriously materialized. One wonders if the alleged gender confusion of many males suffering late puberty has a similar ring.

    This is an interesting take on the issue. I’ve read comments to the effect that shy, effeminate boys are using transsexualism as a means to meet girls, specifically bisexuals and lesbians. If that’s the case, we may see a lot more hetero M-to-F transsexuals in the near future. This kind of transsexualism seems to be more plastic than the homosexual kind; it may thus become one of several “exit strategies” for the growing population of surplus single males in Western societies.

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  61. If I have understood correctly, your main message seems to be something like this :

    “When I was a child my male identity was not so clear and this is in fact normal for young boys.
    The majority of gender non conforming children do not become transgendered adults.
    Therefore transgender children do not exist and gender reassignment should never be performed.”

    I found your conclusion curious because the only thing that you can really conclude from the observations that you present is that transgender children are very rare. There are some testimonies of boys who perceived themeselves as girls from a very young age, who have wanted for many years to become a girl, and who found very painful to be a boy, sometimes to the point of committing suicide. Yes, these are very extreme and very rare cases but in such cases, why would gender reassignment be wrong?

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    • Replies: @Sean
    First do no harm. I think possible infertility and certain stunting from hormone treatment before puberty, when a different and definitive self identification may form, is what is being objected to in the post. Wait, and if they go through with it when they come of age, while they may need a little more work, they will have longer legs!
    , @e
    That these people exist is not the question. That a doctor cannot predict for whom the gender reassignment surgery will alleviate suffering IS the problem. The suicide rate is as high for those who undergo the change as for those who don't, and surgery always being the risk it is, one can understand why doctors are loathe to say, "Well sure, then we'll just remove this and do that and see what happens."
  62. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201505/lobotomy-cuts-both-ways-diametrically-speaking

    A few weeks after the lobectomy, she told about the emergence of hyper empathy. She began to feel physical effects when experiencing emotions, especially sadness (“spin at the heart”) and anger (“esophageal unpleasant feeling”) when meeting with relatives or strangers, seeing a person on TV, or reading about a character in a novel. These effects were automatic and irrepressible.

    She described an increased ability to decode others’ mental states, including their emotions, without necessarily experiencing any emotion (…). Her family confirmed this new impulsive empathy. This phenomenon remained unchanged for 13 years. Since surgery, she got married, had a child, and had a full-time job. She has a successful family and social life.

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  63. @Emma
    If I have understood correctly, your main message seems to be something like this :

    "When I was a child my male identity was not so clear and this is in fact normal for young boys.
    The majority of gender non conforming children do not become transgendered adults.
    Therefore transgender children do not exist and gender reassignment should never be performed."

    I found your conclusion curious because the only thing that you can really conclude from the observations that you present is that transgender children are very rare. There are some testimonies of boys who perceived themeselves as girls from a very young age, who have wanted for many years to become a girl, and who found very painful to be a boy, sometimes to the point of committing suicide. Yes, these are very extreme and very rare cases but in such cases, why would gender reassignment be wrong?

    First do no harm. I think possible infertility and certain stunting from hormone treatment before puberty, when a different and definitive self identification may form, is what is being objected to in the post. Wait, and if they go through with it when they come of age, while they may need a little more work, they will have longer legs!

    Read More
  64. […] Greg Cochran (Transsexuals | West Hunter and Elves, Orcs, and all that | West Hunter), Peter Frost (Gender Reassignment of Children), and Paul McHugh. Bruce (“Caitlyn”) Jenner is no more now a woman than he ever was, […]

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  65. It is true that children, both boys and girls, are much more like women than like men. At puberty boys move through enormous physical and psychological changes to reach a manhood that girls do not. This is why historically women have never been taken seriously when it comes to dealing with any profound endeavor. Simply put, in too many respects they remain too much like like nine year old children–boys or girls, take your pick.
    When in an adjacent room, listening to FOX news or some other station, and the women begin to shriek I feel I am listening to an argument between two hysterical children on the playground. Usually the facts–when on occasion they can be understood–carry about as much authority as those brought forth on a playground shrieking contest.
    All generations over the past 5 million years instinctively knew this to be true, although the past two generations have not been permitted to discuss the matter–even on the Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and Megan Kelly shows. T.V. viewers tune in not because they are looking for any depth of thought; they are looking for depth of cleavage or depth of eye shadow, depending on the sex.

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    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    Parker French says:
    At puberty boys move through enormous physical and psychological changes to reach a manhood that girls do not. This is why historically women have never been taken seriously when it comes to dealing with any profound endeavor. Simply put, in too many respects they remain too much like like nine year old children-boys or girls, take your pick.

    This is rather dubious and not surprisingly, you give no concrete examples or cite any credible sources. If anything, women in cultures the world over have proved themselves anything but childlike simpletons. The fierce Germanic women who urged their males on against the legions of Rome for example give lie to any such claim.

    .
    T.V. viewers tune in not because they are looking for any depth of thought; they are looking for depth of cleavage or depth of eye shadow, depending on the sex.

    Shallow coverage is a problem with most TV news, including Fox News, but I would not call Meagan Kelly a shallow type, only on board to provide eye candy- quite the opposite.
    , @e
    Well, you're certainly not going to support your point with the examples you've given.


    Women DO have higher voices.

    Have you listened to the screeching of one Bill O'Reilly and one Sean Hannity?

    Have you actually listened to the pre-adolescent whinings of adult male bemoaning the fortunes of their favorite NFL team followed by infantile cowboy whoops when their team scores?
  66. @Parker French
    It is true that children, both boys and girls, are much more like women than like men. At puberty boys move through enormous physical and psychological changes to reach a manhood that girls do not. This is why historically women have never been taken seriously when it comes to dealing with any profound endeavor. Simply put, in too many respects they remain too much like like nine year old children--boys or girls, take your pick.
    When in an adjacent room, listening to FOX news or some other station, and the women begin to shriek I feel I am listening to an argument between two hysterical children on the playground. Usually the facts--when on occasion they can be understood--carry about as much authority as those brought forth on a playground shrieking contest.
    All generations over the past 5 million years instinctively knew this to be true, although the past two generations have not been permitted to discuss the matter--even on the Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and Megan Kelly shows. T.V. viewers tune in not because they are looking for any depth of thought; they are looking for depth of cleavage or depth of eye shadow, depending on the sex.

    Parker French says:
    At puberty boys move through enormous physical and psychological changes to reach a manhood that girls do not. This is why historically women have never been taken seriously when it comes to dealing with any profound endeavor. Simply put, in too many respects they remain too much like like nine year old children-boys or girls, take your pick.

    This is rather dubious and not surprisingly, you give no concrete examples or cite any credible sources. If anything, women in cultures the world over have proved themselves anything but childlike simpletons. The fierce Germanic women who urged their males on against the legions of Rome for example give lie to any such claim.

    .
    T.V. viewers tune in not because they are looking for any depth of thought; they are looking for depth of cleavage or depth of eye shadow, depending on the sex.

    Shallow coverage is a problem with most TV news, including Fox News, but I would not call Meagan Kelly a shallow type, only on board to provide eye candy- quite the opposite.

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    • Replies: @Parker French
    Enrique,

    Read "The Tinder Box: How Politically Correct Ideology Destroyed the U.S. Forest Service," C. Burchfield, 501 pp. The evidence is presented in most all chapters but I would focus on Chapters 7 and 8 and most important chapters 16 and 17. The author did not intend to present women as something akin to children, and makes no such claim of the point. It was simply a conclusion I came to after reading it.
  67. @Enrique Cardova
    Parker French says:
    At puberty boys move through enormous physical and psychological changes to reach a manhood that girls do not. This is why historically women have never been taken seriously when it comes to dealing with any profound endeavor. Simply put, in too many respects they remain too much like like nine year old children-boys or girls, take your pick.

    This is rather dubious and not surprisingly, you give no concrete examples or cite any credible sources. If anything, women in cultures the world over have proved themselves anything but childlike simpletons. The fierce Germanic women who urged their males on against the legions of Rome for example give lie to any such claim.

    .
    T.V. viewers tune in not because they are looking for any depth of thought; they are looking for depth of cleavage or depth of eye shadow, depending on the sex.

    Shallow coverage is a problem with most TV news, including Fox News, but I would not call Meagan Kelly a shallow type, only on board to provide eye candy- quite the opposite.

    Enrique,

    Read “The Tinder Box: How Politically Correct Ideology Destroyed the U.S. Forest Service,” C. Burchfield, 501 pp. The evidence is presented in most all chapters but I would focus on Chapters 7 and 8 and most important chapters 16 and 17. The author did not intend to present women as something akin to children, and makes no such claim of the point. It was simply a conclusion I came to after reading it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Enrique Cardova
    Hmmm, never seen that particular book. I'll check it out.
  68. the only thing that you can really conclude from the observations that you present is that transgender children are very rare.

    I suppose the first “you” in the above sentence is meant figuratively. Peter Frost’s conclusion is that gender confusion is common in young children and should not be considered a pathology.

    Yes, these are very extreme and very rare cases but in such cases, why would gender reassignment be wrong?

    Three reasons:

    1. A child cannot give consent.

    2. Puberty-blocking drugs stunt growth and can cause sterility.

    3. Most cases of gender confusion will clear up with no medical intervention. Yes, it will persist in 20 to 30% of all cases but it’s difficult to identify that hard core. It’s not necessarily the children who insist the loudest.

    I’m not bothered by the idea of adults undergoing gender reassignment, but let’s be honest about male-to-female reassignment. This isn’t a matter of “a woman in a man’s body.” It’s a matter of a man who, in most cases, still feels attracted to women but wants to have a woman’s physical appearance.

    Emphasis should also be on estrogen treatment (whose effects are reversible) rather than on surgery (which is irreversible). Sperm banking and egg cell banking should also be mandatory for individuals below the age of 40.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Why aren't you bothered by the idea of adult "reassignment," at least the male to female version? People seem to think of it like a normal medical procedure, or maybe a sort of plastic surgery, but really we're talking about mutilation. Mutilation, furthermore, motivated by madness. Are you bothered by people who want to amputate possessed limbs?
  69. @Emma
    If I have understood correctly, your main message seems to be something like this :

    "When I was a child my male identity was not so clear and this is in fact normal for young boys.
    The majority of gender non conforming children do not become transgendered adults.
    Therefore transgender children do not exist and gender reassignment should never be performed."

    I found your conclusion curious because the only thing that you can really conclude from the observations that you present is that transgender children are very rare. There are some testimonies of boys who perceived themeselves as girls from a very young age, who have wanted for many years to become a girl, and who found very painful to be a boy, sometimes to the point of committing suicide. Yes, these are very extreme and very rare cases but in such cases, why would gender reassignment be wrong?

    That these people exist is not the question. That a doctor cannot predict for whom the gender reassignment surgery will alleviate suffering IS the problem. The suicide rate is as high for those who undergo the change as for those who don’t, and surgery always being the risk it is, one can understand why doctors are loathe to say, “Well sure, then we’ll just remove this and do that and see what happens.”

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  70. @Anonymous
    Wait until we discover what biologically goes wrong and results in homosexuality or,, for that matter, the feeling that one is not his or her biological sex. Then, the left will try to block the news of it or shout down those (researchers & parents) who'll take steps to prevent it if such steps exist. That's not too far around the corner.

    Everyone already knows one big cause of homosexuality, or at least something which precedes it with regularity far beyond coincidence, and that’s childhood sexual abuse. There is and isn’t a blackout on this phenomenon; you’ll see it laid out dramatically on tv and in movies, but talking heads won’t explain it rationally.

    Read More
    • Replies: @e
    Actually, research studies vary greatly on this.

    However, one theory exists as to why gay men report more "sexual" contact ("abuse" here is a word not defined the same way by all), with older boys/men than straights men report: pederasts and pedophiles might identify boys that are gay and figure they are an easier target.

    And, at older ages (but still legally underage) boys who are already interested in other males might be willing to experiment with older males who approach them. In hindsight, years later, if they few the experience as less than a good one, they might term it "abuse" on a questionnaire.

    Then too, adult gay males can be histrionic, more than straight males, that is. They're not called drama queens for nothin', after all.

  71. @Parker French
    Enrique,

    Read "The Tinder Box: How Politically Correct Ideology Destroyed the U.S. Forest Service," C. Burchfield, 501 pp. The evidence is presented in most all chapters but I would focus on Chapters 7 and 8 and most important chapters 16 and 17. The author did not intend to present women as something akin to children, and makes no such claim of the point. It was simply a conclusion I came to after reading it.

    Hmmm, never seen that particular book. I’ll check it out.

    Read More
  72. @Guest
    Everyone already knows one big cause of homosexuality, or at least something which precedes it with regularity far beyond coincidence, and that's childhood sexual abuse. There is and isn't a blackout on this phenomenon; you'll see it laid out dramatically on tv and in movies, but talking heads won't explain it rationally.

    Actually, research studies vary greatly on this.

    However, one theory exists as to why gay men report more “sexual” contact (“abuse” here is a word not defined the same way by all), with older boys/men than straights men report: pederasts and pedophiles might identify boys that are gay and figure they are an easier target.

    And, at older ages (but still legally underage) boys who are already interested in other males might be willing to experiment with older males who approach them. In hindsight, years later, if they few the experience as less than a good one, they might term it “abuse” on a questionnaire.

    Then too, adult gay males can be histrionic, more than straight males, that is. They’re not called drama queens for nothin’, after all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @guest
    Girls are histrionic, too. We see a similar connection between those who were abused by heterosexual (and, less often, lesbian) pedophiles and later promiscuity. But I suppose they might've been sexually precocious, and pedophiles can pick up on that.
  73. @Parker French
    It is true that children, both boys and girls, are much more like women than like men. At puberty boys move through enormous physical and psychological changes to reach a manhood that girls do not. This is why historically women have never been taken seriously when it comes to dealing with any profound endeavor. Simply put, in too many respects they remain too much like like nine year old children--boys or girls, take your pick.
    When in an adjacent room, listening to FOX news or some other station, and the women begin to shriek I feel I am listening to an argument between two hysterical children on the playground. Usually the facts--when on occasion they can be understood--carry about as much authority as those brought forth on a playground shrieking contest.
    All generations over the past 5 million years instinctively knew this to be true, although the past two generations have not been permitted to discuss the matter--even on the Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and Megan Kelly shows. T.V. viewers tune in not because they are looking for any depth of thought; they are looking for depth of cleavage or depth of eye shadow, depending on the sex.

    Well, you’re certainly not going to support your point with the examples you’ve given.

    Women DO have higher voices.

    Have you listened to the screeching of one Bill O’Reilly and one Sean Hannity?

    Have you actually listened to the pre-adolescent whinings of adult male bemoaning the fortunes of their favorite NFL team followed by infantile cowboy whoops when their team scores?

    Read More
  74. @Peter Frost
    the only thing that you can really conclude from the observations that you present is that transgender children are very rare.

    I suppose the first "you" in the above sentence is meant figuratively. Peter Frost's conclusion is that gender confusion is common in young children and should not be considered a pathology.

    Yes, these are very extreme and very rare cases but in such cases, why would gender reassignment be wrong?

    Three reasons:

    1. A child cannot give consent.

    2. Puberty-blocking drugs stunt growth and can cause sterility.

    3. Most cases of gender confusion will clear up with no medical intervention. Yes, it will persist in 20 to 30% of all cases but it's difficult to identify that hard core. It's not necessarily the children who insist the loudest.

    I'm not bothered by the idea of adults undergoing gender reassignment, but let's be honest about male-to-female reassignment. This isn't a matter of "a woman in a man's body." It's a matter of a man who, in most cases, still feels attracted to women but wants to have a woman's physical appearance.

    Emphasis should also be on estrogen treatment (whose effects are reversible) rather than on surgery (which is irreversible). Sperm banking and egg cell banking should also be mandatory for individuals below the age of 40.

    Why aren’t you bothered by the idea of adult “reassignment,” at least the male to female version? People seem to think of it like a normal medical procedure, or maybe a sort of plastic surgery, but really we’re talking about mutilation. Mutilation, furthermore, motivated by madness. Are you bothered by people who want to amputate possessed limbs?

    Read More
  75. @e
    Actually, research studies vary greatly on this.

    However, one theory exists as to why gay men report more "sexual" contact ("abuse" here is a word not defined the same way by all), with older boys/men than straights men report: pederasts and pedophiles might identify boys that are gay and figure they are an easier target.

    And, at older ages (but still legally underage) boys who are already interested in other males might be willing to experiment with older males who approach them. In hindsight, years later, if they few the experience as less than a good one, they might term it "abuse" on a questionnaire.

    Then too, adult gay males can be histrionic, more than straight males, that is. They're not called drama queens for nothin', after all.

    Girls are histrionic, too. We see a similar connection between those who were abused by heterosexual (and, less often, lesbian) pedophiles and later promiscuity. But I suppose they might’ve been sexually precocious, and pedophiles can pick up on that.

    Read More
  76. Why aren’t you bothered by the idea of adult “reassignment,”

    Adults are supposed to have the maturity to run their personal lives. I’m not a libertarian, but there are limits to how much government can or should control. What is to stop someone from going to Mexico and getting a sex change? Hormonal treatment is even harder to regulate. It’s perfectly legal to buy phytoestrogens without a prescription, and their effect is similar to that of human estrogen.

    I agree there should be some degree of government control over sex change surgery, given its irreversible nature and given the fact that many transsexuals later express regret.

    Read More
  77. How are puberty blockers any different from Thalidomide?

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    • Replies: @Melendwyr
    Well, Thalidomide was only grossly harmful if people got the wrong enantiomer. One form was a sedative, the other induced flipperlike birth defects.

    Intending to so commonly give sedatives to pregnant women was inherently poor thinking, but if the manufactured drug had the proper enantiomeric form, the one that had been tested, it wouldn't have resulted in flipper babies. Whether there would be subtle neurological changes is unknown - but of course, we don't know that about drugs given to pregnant women today.
  78. @Reg Cæsar
    How are puberty blockers any different from Thalidomide?

    Well, Thalidomide was only grossly harmful if people got the wrong enantiomer. One form was a sedative, the other induced flipperlike birth defects.

    Intending to so commonly give sedatives to pregnant women was inherently poor thinking, but if the manufactured drug had the proper enantiomeric form, the one that had been tested, it wouldn’t have resulted in flipper babies. Whether there would be subtle neurological changes is unknown – but of course, we don’t know that about drugs given to pregnant women today.

    Read More
  79. And how low do you set the threshold for feminine-acting behavior? I’m wondering because I meet mothers who worry about sons who are not into team sports or not interested in “masculine” toys. That sounds like me as a child. The only toys I really liked were the puppets that my mother made out of old socks or pieces of fabric. I also had little dinosaurs that my parents bought at the Royal Ontario Museum. I never played with toy guns or G.I. Joes, unlike many other boys my age.

    I had every kind of toy gun you can think of. I was upset with my father because he wouldn’t let me have a BB gun or a .22. And G.I. Joe, had that. One summer I played in 4 baseball leagues; was captain of one team and on another all-star team. I played basketball and football — tackle, flag, and tag. I wrestled. I swam. I ran. I loved dodgeball, and was especially good at flinging the smaller rubber missiles at peoples’ heads. I roller skated. I ice skated. Nothing like crack the whip, at least until I was old enough to drive on the Autobahn.

    And when I was 14 years old, I had my first self-recognizable crush on another boy, my brother’s best friend. Which is to say that, when I was 9 years old I didn’t recognize my attraction to a different brother’s best friend for what I later, in retrospect, came to realize for what it was. And of course, I was the object of some crushes from both genders along the way, being oblivious to almost all of them.

    So much for femininity in boys = homosexual orientation, and vice versa. True enough, there are more outwardly feminine males in what I’ve observed of the gay population over the decades, but better not make too many assumptions. This weekend, I’m getting married to a man who spent much of his youth holding either a .22, a 30-30 deer rifle, or a shotgun. And who comes across in the way you might expect of a lifelong outdoorsman.

    I agree there should be some degree of government control over sex change surgery, given its irreversible nature and given the fact that many transsexuals later express regret.

    I agree. There should be a regulatory mechanism. That said, I think the typical far-right response to this issue is not only laughable, but self-defeating, not to mention irresponsible in the sense that it deprives the discussion of a needed counterbalance. For God’s sakes, even Iran’s ayatollahs show more humanity on this one!

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