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Turkey Shoots Down Russian Plane
Nato will be worried by strike on Russia
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Turkey must have been eager to shoot down a Russian aircraft. Even going by the Turkish account of what happened, as illustrated by a Turkish map of the route of the Russian plane, it would only briefly have been in Turkish airspace as it crossed a piece of Turkish territory that projects into Syria.

Why would Turkey do this? Probably because Ankara has become increasingly furious, since Russian air strikes started in Syria on 30 September, that Russian jets were routinely invading its airspace. The Turkish government also knows that its policy since 2011 of getting rid of President Bashar al-Assad has failed and that it has a diminishing influence in events in Syria as Russia, the US, France and possibly, in the near future, Britain increase their military involvement in Syria.

Specific events on the 550 mile-long Syrian-Kurdish role may also have played a role. This year Turkey has seen the Syrian Kurds, whom it denounces as terrorists as bad as Isis, take control of half of the frontier and threaten to move west of the Euphrates. More recently, Syrian army units backed by Russian air strikes have been attacking towards the other end of the border near where the Russian plane came down and the pilots were killed.

Nato countries will give some rhetorical support to Turkey as a Nato member, but many will not be dismissive in private of President Vladimir Putin’s angry accusation that Turkey is the accomplice of terrorists. Turkey’s support for the Syrian armed opposition, including extreme groups like Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham, has been notorious over the last three years. Its relations with Isis are murky, but it has been credibly accused of allowing the self-declared Islamic State to sell oil through Turkey.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is in a strong domestic position because of his sweeping parliamentary election victory on 1 November. But he has seen what appeared to be a strong Turkish position in the Middle East in 2011 deteriorate year by year as leaders and movements he supported, such as President Morsi in Egypt and the opposition in Syria, suffer defeats.

At the same time, it is damaging for Turkey to have bad relations with Russia and Iran, two powerful neighbours close to its borders. Leaders of Nato countries will want to prevent further Russian-Turkish hostilities, so they can look for Russian cooperation in attacking Isis and ending the Syrian conflict.

(Republished from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Russia, Syria, Turkey 
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  1. Tom_R says:

    JEW-S-A AND JEWROPE (=NATO) ALLOWED TURKEY TO DOWN RUSSIAN JET.

    Turkey, a NATO member, did not act alone but this attack was probably approved by his masters such as Obama, who is owned and operated by the Jewish neo-cons who are trying to confront Russia and retaliate for its involvement in Syria and the disruption of their plan for a Greater Israel.

    This is the second attack by the Jewish neocons on Russia, the previous one being the attack on the Metrojet plane in Sinai where they used Al Sisi to slip in a bomb.

    Russia must keep score and avenge both these criminal acts by these Jewish criminals and their puppets, Obama, Ergodan and Al SIsi.

  2. Kiza says:

    The leading British BSer is riding tall:

    Probably because Ankara has become increasingly furious, since Russian air strikes started in Syria on 30 September, that Russian jets were routinely invading its airspace.

    No proof needed, just like for MH17. And he finishes with the masterpiece of BS for his stupid readers-believers:

    Leaders of Nato countries will want to prevent further Russian-Turkish hostilities, so they can look for Russian cooperation in attacking Isis and ending the Syrian conflict.

    Total bomboozling of the Western stupidos. Let me translate Cockburn for you Western el stupidos:
    Russia you violated the Turkish airspace, you got punished, case closed, shut up. We plan to make even bigger fools of you by continuing the talk about fighting ISIS (our terrorists) together with you. Thus expose your back to us now, after you did it to Turkey. Ho, ho, ho.

    Naturally, there is much lower level BS in the rest of the Western MSM. Cockburn, like Margolis, serves the upper stratum of the propaganda market (patriotic Anglo quasi-intellectuals).

  3. tbraton says:

    Why no expressions of condemnation from the U.S. or any of the EU countries against Turkey’s constant and almost hourly violation of Greece’s territorial waters with the refugee-laden rubber rafts which set off many times a day from Turkey to Lesbos?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Anonymous
  4. A good thing, Turks
    Et should rest of the Russian military planes down. Time to send all foreigners hione from the Middle East. What business has Putin to prop up an unpopular minority and murderous regime of a dictator? Poor Cockburn justifies every evil act against Muslims. A Marxist-Colonialist in disguise?

    • Replies: @tika
    , @traveler
    , @Anonymous
  5. “Its (Turkey) relations with Isis are murky”

    Really, he sounds like a U.S. journalist that is a stenographer for the government. There is nothing murky about it, Turkey and the Saudis, Qatar have been the driving forces behind the growth of ISIS. Turkey provides the terrorists medical care (as does Israel) and free access to Syria through Turkish borders. The Saudis have for decades funded the most radical of Islamic terrorists and are driving to oust Assad because he is an ally of Iran. I’m sure the Saudis are rewarding Turkey for their pro-terrorist policies.

    Is Cockburn really that clueless?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @tbraton

    Those aren’t Turkish forces violating Greek waters, so it’s not analogous. Russian forces have been violating Turkish airspace.

    • Replies: @5371
  7. anon • Disclaimer says:

    @6 Greece has been violated something like 1000 tmies. Keep trying to spin though – I’m sure Putin will relent from dishing out the pain on turkmen at the border- lol

    • Replies: @Devil's Advocate
  8. 5371 says:
    @Anonymous

    Turkish planes violate Greek airspace hundreds of times every year, idiot liar.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  9. VJ says:

    Turkey will regret this one way or another. I foresee some Kurds being gifted some stingers that will take down some Turkish military jets. Or it could be… One way or another, there will be a payback.

  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Chet Roman

    while we all do “know” this
    until you can link to a thing called “proof”

    it is technically murky.

    ” I’m sure the Saudis are rewarding Turkey for their pro-terrorist policies.”
    yes but the difference between being sure and being a reporter is having some proof.

    or you could submit your own story detailing all the rewards saudi is currently delivering, and if you can’t find any proof just make something up because hey we all already know its true.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  11. Read the truth not Bull: “France and Israël launch a new war in Iraq and Syria
    by Thierry Meyssan”–posted at a real news outlet WRH
    Shame Shame on Patrick Cock Burn. Obvious he wants recognition of being part of the media ass kissers of jUSA establishment. Patrick Blows and Sucks in reporting. Luck that most comments expose the turd he is.
    Notice where the article was posted? Antiwar. Far from being anti. Another Jewish establishment masquerading against war but no substance

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  12. tika says:
    @Cockburn Watch

    What business have the western countries in Syria? They are the ones who armed and trained an armed rebellion in Syria. That is an act of war. And what is their goal? To remove the legitimate – under international law – government of Syria. Now, seeking regime change _is_ illegal, no matter how you look at it. Dropping weapons into Syria is also illegal. Even sending drones over Syria without authorization is illegal. Russia, on the other hand was _invited_ in Syria.

    If we look at things from a moral standpoint, the US/NATO strategy seems even uglier. This circus has cost around 200,000 lives so far, and don’t ever forget that this number includes around 90,000 Syrian soldiers who died fighting NATO sponsored terrorism.

    Various Western allies are actively supporting terrorism, supplying them with weapons, advice, and even drugs. A Saoudi royal was arrested not long ago in Lebanon over 2 metric tons of speed intended for ISIS.

    Really, your comment shows that you either have no idea of what is going on in the ME, or that you lack a moral compass.

  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Has Turkey ever considered making peace with,and accomodating,the Kurds?How would allowing them to live actually harm the average Turk,in reality?If Turkey loses some land,so what?That poses no threat to the average turk.

    • Replies: @tbraton
  14. Joe Hill says:

    One wonders just how long Mr Cockburn can continue to pretend to be unaware of the infamous 2012 DIA memo on the creation of the ISIS cancer. Even Uncle Sam’s Mouthpiece of Record, the New York Times, now admits the existence of the memo.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  15. Anonymous [AKA "Antiwar"] says:
    @george Archers

    Yes, because Armchair General Archers will lead in front of his army against the IDF. Oh wait, he has no army? Perhaps he should just pick up his rifle, travel to Israel and start shooting IDF soldiers then? Oh wait, he did not do that? Well, there is always typing on his keyboard calling on others to go to war, that will show them that sneaky Israeli.

  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Russia’s successes in Syria are being punished, first by downing a civilian plane in the Sinai, now with the Turkish attack on a Russian fighter jet. Ankara shows a similar hubris and recklessness that is a trademark of Washington. Note also that Israel bombed Syrian territory yesterday. I much prefer Russia’s logical policy of preventing the creation of another failed state in the ME. But our elites will not suffer from the blowback; they will keep using every attack in Western capitals to abolish our rights.

  17. traveler says:
    @Cockburn Watch

    Buy a brain, Cockburn. You will then see the light. What a weird question!

    Lol and re-lol.

  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @tbraton

    Excellent point !!!! Great for bringing that up.

  19. Give Cockburn a break. His article was first published at the Independent. You can only say so much at a mainstream outlet.

  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @5371

    He’s not talking about Turkish planes.

    As far as Turkish planes go, I don’t know if they violate Greek airspace. Both Turkey and Greece are a part of NATO, and presumably Turkish planes don’t violate Greek airspace and have some arrangement to fly through it.

    • Replies: @5371
  21. @anon

    Well maybe Greece shouldn’t have gone out looking like that. I mean, how is Turkey supposed to resist?

  22. 5371 says:
    @Anonymous

    Presumably bullshit, idiot.

  23. RudyM says:

    NATO is sure going to be upset about this, with its constant provocation of Russia and long history of supporting Islamist terrorists. Yes sir. This is why I normally don’t read Patrick Cockburn.

  24. Kamran says:

    Why is nobody discussing the obvious fact that the Turkish military could not have done this without express approval from NATO HQ, and the whatever repercussions this holds?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  25. @Kamran

    Presumably because, like you, no one has made a case with credible evidence that NATO approved the attack. Spell it out if you are so sure.

    • Replies: @Kamran
    , @krollchem
  26. @Joe Hill

    What suggests he is unaware of it? What relevance would it have had to this article about 2015 events?

  27. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Cockburn Watch

    Please ignore Cockburn Watch.

    He clearly is puppeting the mainstream media line.

    He clearly ignores the fact that Assad is the desired leader of the Syrian people.

    He clearly ignores the fact that the deaths that occurred during the Arab Spring may have been done by Western agents to foment this bullshit.

    He clearly ignores the Media’s double standard regarding Turkey vis-a-vis everyone.

    He clearly is supporting Mohammedan Wahhabist shits.

    He clearly is stupid.

    He clearly is dumb.

    He clearly is spreading lies.

    And he clearly needs to be throat punched for his stupidity and his pollution of the intellectual commons in much the same way that Erdogan needs to be roasted with stuffing and served with Date Sauce.

  28. tbraton says:
    @Anonymous

    “Has Turkey ever considered making peace with,and accomodating,the Kurds?How would allowing them to live actually harm the average Turk,in reality?If Turkey loses some land,so what?That poses no threat to the average turk.”

    Exactly. Turkey complains about Syria attacking the Turkman rebels within Syria, but the first thing the Turks did after agreeing to allow the U.S. to use Incirclik airbase in Turkey (supposedly to facilitate attacks on ISIS) was to bomb the Kurds in Turkey. The Turks are so insistent that the territorial integrity of Turkey is sacrosanct and thus the Kurds, who constitute 20% of Turkey’s population, must be oppressed, but it had no problem invading Cyprus in 1974 and carving out 40% of Cyprus’s territory to protect the Cypriot Turks, who, at the time, comprised less than 20% of Cyprus’s population, and expelling all the Greek Cypriots, in a gesture of ethnic cleansing. Turkey is so insistent that its airspace is inviolable, but it has no hesitation in launching endless rubber rafts into Greece’s territorial waters, thus violating Greece’s internationally recognized border. The Turks are total hypocrites and should be expelled from NATO. Turks have demonstrated that they can’t coexist with Greeks on the island of Cyprus. The EU would be truly insane if they admitted Turkey as a member of the EU.

  29. Kamran says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Everything the turkish military does is ordered by NATO. There is absolutely no space for independent action.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Wizard of Oz
  30. Avery says:
    @Kamran

    Cowardly filthy nomad IslamoFascist Turks hiding behind the Christian NATO shield.
    Again.

    Did NATO order nomad Turk occupation of 40% of Cyprus ?
    Did NATO order nomad Turks to deny US transit rights of US military during Iraq operation ?
    A NATO ally ?

    Ingrate nomad Turks ought to be expelled from NATO so Russian bear can tear the mange Turk jackal to pieces.

    Genocidal nomad scum.

    • Replies: @Kamran
  31. Kamran says:
    @Avery

    Lol, armenian cuck, you came back for some more thrashing? Such an enraged little man, I should just leave you alone, you’ll explode by yourself, lol.

    I’m not a supporter of Erdogan. I am a Gulenist. With some hope, we can attract support and aid from Russia FSB and usurp that fucking georgian idiot from Ankara.

  32. krollchem says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You will recall that Kerry warned Russia that by getting involved in Syria that it would lose warplanes.

    You are probably right that it was not NATO that ordered Turkey to shoot down the Russian SU-24M in Syrian airspace. There are many other Western powers who could have ordered the attack including the Kagen neocon couple, neocons in the Pentagon, and even Kerry. It also appears that Erdogan was pissed off that about 1,000 his family’s oil transport tankers were blown up by the Russian airforce:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president.

    You will note that Erdogan’s daughter runs a hospital for ISIS casualties in southern Turkey and Turkey has gained from looting Syrian factories, antiquities and profited from the ISIS cotton trade.

    Turkey will pay for their Sultan’s foolishness. Already, Russia has:

    (1) massively bombed the Turkish supported islamic fighters in the area of the shoot down;
    (2) destroyed oil tanker trucks waiting at the Turkish border;
    (3) destroyed a large truck convoy of weapons headed for ISIS in Eastern Syria;
    (4) Called on Russians not to travel to Turkey on vacation;
    (5) and, shut off all Turkish traffic into Russia.

    The Prime Minister of Russia will announce further sanctions against Turkey which may include shutting off food imports, cancelling to contract to build nuclear power plants in Turkey and the South Stream pipeline. It you do your research on pipeline geopolitics you will note that Turkey obtains 57% of its natural gas from the Russian Blue Stream pipeline and another 20% comes from Iran. Winter is coming and there may be technical failures in Russian pumping stations caused by “terrorist” activities.

    In the end the US wins as the Turkstream pipeline is stopped and Victoria Nuland’s coup in Ukraine is bought more time (even though it is officially bankrupt). I am also sure that the elimination of electricity to Crimea was convenient but cost Ukraine further coal from Russia and anymore natural gas (Ukraine can no longer afford to buy any more).

    Peeling the onion further, the Ukraine coup and civil war was meant as a wedge between Western Europe and the new Russia-China silk road to stop further economic integration. The European leaders chose to apply sanctions on Russia, which they recently renewed and Russia responded in kind. Now Europe will have no choice but accept TTIP and submit to US corporate control over their now pseudo state-governments. Again the US wins.

    The US, NATO and EU sponsored wars in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and even Mali have led to a massive refugee crisis which the UN can no longer support. This ultimately will lead to some 35 million new residents in Western Europe by 2020. Add to this many million Ukraine refugees and those from Kosovo, Albania, and B-H and the European project is doomed to collapse and its people becoming feudalistic serfs. Oops, I failed to mention the many million Turks that will flee to Western Europe as the Turkish economy fails.

    Bill Clinton once stated that, in regards to the war on the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY), this is a war between globalism and tribalism. What he failed to mention is that the deep state (e.g. neocons, corporations, banks, propaganda outlets, and foreign interests such as Israel, Saudi Arabis, Qatar, UAE, etc) inflame tribalist historical animosities to create wars that further globalist interests of a narrow band of players. If you like, a neo-Hanseatic League of the UberRich who will flee to the safety of the US, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Israel when the project fails.

    I welcome your well researched cornucopian all is well viewpoint… We are here to learn and exchange ideas.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  33. @Kamran

    Evidence please for that ridiculous statement. I ask, not because you can substantiate it, but in the hope that you might learn to stop wasting other people’s time wondering what goes on in your head and what your motive might be. Avery has nailed it I think and could have mentioned the Turkish military forces and the Kurds..

    • Replies: @Kamran
  34. Kamran says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  35. @Kamran

    I Googled for Alexey Khlebnikov and read that young man’s Russia Today extensively. I can’t see how anyone could regard it as supporting even a reduced version of your extravagant assertion about NATO.

    BTW why would you think any information that Russia gave the US about its flights was accurate and timely, that it would have accurately said that a Russian pilot was going to fly into Turkish air space, that the US systems would take note of anything not impacting on the major issue of clashes with the US????

  36. @krollchem

    Interesting stuff and interesting thoughts. I’ll try to get back to it when I have time. I’m particularly interested in motivations and timing with respect to Russia-China-Europe economic connections and, by extension, the TPIP.

    I suspect that we overestimate the coherence of policies and also underestimate the extent to which one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing.

  37. krollchem says:

    Conspiracies are hard to prove, however, TTIP and TISA are the frameworks that the “Masters of the Universe” use to move in a general direction.

    Overall ISIS has been incubated and supported by the US, the EU, Turkey, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan and UAE. It was meant as a force against the Syrian government and it’s people. We are in this mess since they left the “reservation”. Most of these countries are now trying to say that they only support the other 30 flavors of terrorism in Syria.

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