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Trump's Comments Towards Iran Could Deepen Conflict in the Region
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President Trump is adding further venom to the raging sectarian hatreds tearing apart Iraq and Syria by his latest ill-judged tweets. These have far greater explosive potential than his better known clashes with countries like Australia and Mexico, because in the Middle East he is dealing with matters of war and peace. In this complex region, the US will have to pay a high price for switching to a vaguely belligerent policy which pays so little regard to the real situation on the ground.

In one tweet this week, Trump says that “Iran is rapidly taking over more and more of Iraq even after the US has squandered three trillion dollars there. Obvious long ago!” In fact, it is not obvious at all because it is not true. Iran was in a stronger position in Iraq before June 2014 when the Isis offensive captured Mosul, defeated the Iraqi army and provoked the fall of the government of Nouri al-Maliki who was close to Iran.

The victories of Isis at that time led to a return of US influence in Iraq as President Obama created a US-led air coalition which has launched thousands of air strikes against Isis. He sent at least 5,000 US military personnel backed by thousands of American contractors who handle training and logistics for the current Iraqi army assault on Mosul. The attack is very much a joint US-Iraqi joint operation and has turned into the hardest fought battle in Iraq since the US invasion of 2003.

But Trump is not the only person saying that Iraq is increasingly controlled by Iran. Isis continually maintains that the majority Iraqi Shia community, which makes up about two thirds of the 33 million Iraqi population, is not really Iraqi but Iranian. Isis has always demonised the Iraqi Shia as religious heretics and “Safavids”, called after the Iranian dynasty, and said they are not real Muslims and deserve to die. Saudi Arabia, with whose rulers Trump recently had a long conversation, holds somewhat similar views about equating Shia Islam with Iran and the need to combat both.

Trump’s claim about growing Iranian control of Iraq might be dismissed as nonsense without long term consequences. But there are other arrows pointing in the same direction: Iraqis, Iranians and others in the region are pointing to the bizarre make-up of the list of seven states whose citizens have been temporarily banned from entering the US. This is supposedly directed against al-Qaeda and Isis, drawing on lessons learned after 9/11. But none of the states from which the hijackers came – Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon – are subject to the ban as are Iraq and Iran. “The list looks like its intent is basically anti-Shia,” says one observer in Baghdad and the governments of Saudi Arabia and Turkey seem to think the same thing, since they have either supported or failed to condemn the US action, though it is more or less openly directed against Muslims.

The Trump administration seems to think in tweets and slogans, so it is probably wrong to speak of a coherent change in policy. But in its first weeks in office, it has been far more vocal about confronting a supposed Iranian threat than it has about eliminating Isis. This came across clearly on Wednesday when the national security adviser, General Michael Flynn, once head of the Defence Intelligence Agency until sacked by Obama, accused Iran of conducing a “provocative” nuclear missile test in breach of a UN Security Council resolution and helping Houthi rebels in Yemen, saying “as of today we are putting Iran on notice”. The phrase about Iran was repeated in a tweet by Trump, indicating a greater concern in the White House about Iran than Isis and little interest in the titanic battle being waged for control of Mosul. In some secret location in that city, the self-declared caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, may be pondering the same question that is absorbing other world leaders: how much of what Trump says is just bombast and how far will it turn into reality on the ground? It is a little early to say, but the signs are not encouraging.

In any case, bombast alone is capable of reshaping the political landscape. Paradoxically, White House actions in the Middle East are creating the very conditions for Iran to displace US influence in Iraq in a way that Trump wrongly imagines has already happened. Responding to the travel ban, the Iraqi parliament declared that US citizens proposing to enter Iraq over the next 90 days should be subjected to the same restrictions. The Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi refused to go along with this, saying it was more important to keep cooperation with the US while the battle for Mosul is still going on.

But the matter is not likely to rest there, because the US relationship with Iran in Iraq has always been a curious mixture of open rivalry and rather more covert cooperation, since they share a common enemy in Isis and, previously, in al-Qaida in Iraq. American power in Iraq has grown since 2014 because it is Iraq’s main military ally. Without US and coalition air strikes, the Iraqi army could not defeat Isis or even hold its own against it. But the US political position in Iraq is weaker than its military one and, thanks to the US travel ban and Trump’s escalating attacks on Iran, it’s going to get weaker still. The ban is a “golden opportunity” for Iran to push back against the US, said a former senior Iraqi official. “Iraqis are very worried,” said Kamran Karadaghi, an Iraqi commentator and former chief of staff to the Iraqi presidency. “If anything bad happens to Iran because of Trump, it will be bad for Iraqis.”

In pursuit of an anti-Iranian line, the Trump administration is making the same mistake as that made by Western governments after the 2011 uprisings in the Arab world. They tended to think in terms of nationalism, nationalities and the nation state, but in the Middle East these count for less as communal bonds than religious identity. Thus, what was essentially a Sunni Arab uprising in Syria six years ago changed the balance of power between Sunni and Shia in Iraq and restarted the civil war there. The threat to President Bashar al-Assad and his Alawite dominated government was bound to lead to the Shia in Iran, Iraq and Lebanon rallying to his support to prevent his overthrow, because they felt that was an existential threat to themselves.

The Trump administration has not made any disastrous missteps in the Middle East yet, but, going by its actions over the last week, it may soon do so. There is the same mixture of wishful thinking, misinformation and arrogance in Washington as led to the US disaster in Lebanon in 1982-83 and in Iraq after 2003. Trump’s tub-thumping in quarrels with Australia and Mexico may not have very dire effects in the long term because no blood is being spilt. But in the Middle East, a zone of wars, Trump’s angry amateurism is more likely to produce a thoroughgoing disaster.

(Reprinted from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Donald Trump, Iran, Iraq, Middle East 
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  1. In this complex region, the US will have to pay a high price for switching to a vaguely belligerent policy which pays so little regard to the real situation on the ground

    Yes, this will be such a monumental change from all these years where our clowns have been on top of every nuance in the region. I suspect that in the end Trump will screw up our ME masterpiece.

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  2. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    The list looks like its intent is basically anti-Shia

    Why repeat bullshit?

    Libya, Sudan and Somalia have virtually 0 Shiites, and Syria is majority Sunni.

    The list is comprised of countries Trump can get away with banning

    • Replies: @MEexpert
    Here I agree with Cockburn. The rationale behind this list is anti-Shia. I can bet the input from Israel and Saudi Arabia was the force behind it. Remember, the list was announced after Trump's phone calls with Netanyahu and King Salman.
    , @virgile
    Yes, these are the countries that have insignificant economical trade with the USA.
    Trump's selective ban could be a symbolic move that send a warning to the other Islamic countries: You could be on the list if...
    , @Njegos
    No, it's not bullshit.

    The other countries are thrown in to "disguise" the anti-Shia nature of Trump's ban. It's similar to David Frum's infamous Axis of Evil. North Korea was included to "hide" the fact that the real targets were Israel's two biggest enemies.

    , @KA
    It is easy to fall for this trap and to ignore the anti Iran attitude as the main reason . Using the powerful undercurrent of anxiety uncertainty fear pervading the large swath of American heartland, Trump is essentially following the cookbook out of Cheney-PNAC mafioso's office That time it was Iraq This time it would be Iran .


    Iraq was not destroyed in one day It took 13 yrs to go back and it took 18 yrs to destroy it .
  3. The fundamental problem with how the Western powers, especially the US, treat the middle east is that they have no clue as to what makes the middle east go. They don’t understand the tribal nature of the population. Worse, they do not understand about the real Islam. Their knowledge of Islam comes from studying Saudi Arabia or listening to the Israeli experts on Islam. They are confused about Iran and Hezbollah because they do not fit the model created by their study. They are puzzled how a small resistance movement like Hezbollah can defeat monster army like Israel twice and dares Israel to try it the third time.

    A piece of advice to the US generals and the diplomats. Try to understand the Shia Islam. A minor example of the conviction of Shia beliefs is the treatment of the first post Saddam governer of Iraq, Paul Brenner. He tried several times to see the Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani only to be rebuffed everytime. A man with the mightiest army behind him could not match wits with a small frail man sitting in a small house in Najaf, Iraq. Brenner was used to dealing with the pomp and glitter of Saudi Arabia and other Sheikhs of the middle east. Until the West in general and US in particular learn about Shia Islam and learn to deal with them the West will never be able to get anything done. You cannot bully them as you can the Monarchies. These monarchs have no sense of peoples’ feelings or sufferings. They are more interested in saving their rule rather than what is best for the people.

    The best place to start is to study the events of Karbala and the martyrdom of Hussain, the grandson of the prophet Muhammad.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    You cannot bully them as you can the Monarchies. These monarchs have no sense of peoples’ feelings or sufferings. They are more interested in saving their rule rather than what is best for the people.
     
    True.

    That pretty much describes ruling classes in general as does this.


    There is the same mixture of wishful thinking, misinformation and arrogance...
     
    , @TigerJ
    Absolutely correct, MEexpert.
    I suggest that readers, as well as advisers to Mr. Trump, read the various pronouncements made by Iranian leaders, particularly those by Leader Khomeini, to note their courage, and absolute resolve to defend their country and people. There is no hint of cowardice or backstabbing as you see on display just to the south in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Monarchies. Just one day after General Flynn threatens Iran and puts it on notice for testing missiles, the Iranian army tests a new missile and radar system. Their allies in Iraq, Syria and the Hizbollah make a formidable if not an indomitable resistance block to foreign powers.
    , @Scrpt
    Overall, I agree with your comment. Adding insult to injury is that much of what has been going with the Islam and the Sunni/Shi'a split has also been grossly overblown and exploited by the West and the media in general. The damage caused here, I'm afraid, is that the perceptions caused in the minds of non-Muslims everywhere is that Muslims are viewed as a people that no one can trust. This will persist for a long time and influence policymakers now and in the future.
    , @Halit
    Nobody understands why SHIA and SUNNy keep fighting each other although it is great help to Jewish people and western gaverments to fight Muslim countries invade Muslim countries to use both against each other to keep them busy and obtain their national resources like Petrol.
    Because of murder of Profits grand Son Hussain political Islam created SHIA Islam and based on that this two murdering each others permanently.
    And SHIA Islam doesn't exist in Koran,SHIA Islam is political Islam to respons to Grand son murder.
    Why this dived exist this long and carry on forever after so much self distraction nobody knows,I guess this two deserved each others.
  4. @anon

    The list looks like its intent is basically anti-Shia
     
    Why repeat bullshit?

    Libya, Sudan and Somalia have virtually 0 Shiites, and Syria is majority Sunni.

    The list is comprised of countries Trump can get away with banning

    Here I agree with Cockburn. The rationale behind this list is anti-Shia. I can bet the input from Israel and Saudi Arabia was the force behind it. Remember, the list was announced after Trump’s phone calls with Netanyahu and King Salman.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Hello, MEexpert.
    I voted for Trump. Here I also agree with Cockburn.
  5. The moratorium is not based on punishing the countries whose citizens participated in the 9/11 attacks. It’s a dead horse.

    I think we have been told many times that bombast is just the way leaders talk in the ME and does not have the significance that Americans overreact to. Suddenly, bombast is now important!

  6. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @MEexpert
    Here I agree with Cockburn. The rationale behind this list is anti-Shia. I can bet the input from Israel and Saudi Arabia was the force behind it. Remember, the list was announced after Trump's phone calls with Netanyahu and King Salman.

    Hello, MEexpert.
    I voted for Trump. Here I also agree with Cockburn.

  7. @anon

    The list looks like its intent is basically anti-Shia
     
    Why repeat bullshit?

    Libya, Sudan and Somalia have virtually 0 Shiites, and Syria is majority Sunni.

    The list is comprised of countries Trump can get away with banning

    Yes, these are the countries that have insignificant economical trade with the USA.
    Trump’s selective ban could be a symbolic move that send a warning to the other Islamic countries: You could be on the list if…

  8. The question should be what does Trump wants from Iran? Change its regime? Push it into negotiating on Yemen’s future or to decrease its support of the enemies of Israel (Hezbollah)?

    Isn’t it Trump’s usual way to start a dialog in a position of strength? Finding any pretext to bully as a premise to start negotiation? Is Trump testing Iran to see the reaction? Is Iran ready to play that game?
    We have seen that with Mexico and with Australia…

    • Replies: @5371
    The only parties to the Yemen war that are refusing real negotiation are the Gulf criminals and their puppet regime.
    , @Anonymous
    Trump wants Iran to roll over so Isreal and Saudi Arabia can go on ruling the Middle East without opposition.

    You know....the same people that oppress Christians in their own territory and directly funded the terrorists who behead and rape Christians.

    All of the things you listed are just talking points. Ultimately what they want from Iran is to join the West so it can be controlled. This means their women liberal sluts and their banks controlled by Walstreet.

    Ideally Iran split up into many different countries.

    I am sick of the whole Trump master negotiator meme. Trumpkins always give him much more credit than is deserved here.

    If Trump is such a master negotiator, why would he back himself in the corner and limit his options going forward which is exactly what he has done with both Iran and China.

    A more skilled negotiator would leave more avenues for success on the table. That is assuming though that Trump is even negotiating and is not just a Saudi and Jewish pawn.
  9. Unfortunately, it appears that Trump, to defend himself against false accusations that the Russians were responsible for his victory, is deciding to take an absurd position on Iran. The real terrorists are the Sunni Wahabists or Salafists under Saudi control. This was why Iran was on Trump’s list of barred entry countries while the Saudis, the chief terrorist exporters, were not on the list. This latest Trump initiative, blaming “Iran” for the Yemenis defense of themselves against a criminal Saudi war against them with yankee support, is indicative of jumping the shark. We all know that the Clintons’ policies were likely headed towards WWIII. Let’s hope that the other alternative doesn’t get us there as well.

  10. It does look like Trump is being played by “Saud-ISIS and Friends” to go after Iran.

    Donny, Iran is not the enemy, stop being a dupe. You are following a ‘Loser” script. Bad for ratings.

    Put America First, Arrest Soros!

    Stop becoming an Obama Bin Bush!

  11. @virgile
    The question should be what does Trump wants from Iran? Change its regime? Push it into negotiating on Yemen's future or to decrease its support of the enemies of Israel (Hezbollah)?

    Isn't it Trump's usual way to start a dialog in a position of strength? Finding any pretext to bully as a premise to start negotiation? Is Trump testing Iran to see the reaction? Is Iran ready to play that game?
    We have seen that with Mexico and with Australia...

    The only parties to the Yemen war that are refusing real negotiation are the Gulf criminals and their puppet regime.

  12. @anon

    The list looks like its intent is basically anti-Shia
     
    Why repeat bullshit?

    Libya, Sudan and Somalia have virtually 0 Shiites, and Syria is majority Sunni.

    The list is comprised of countries Trump can get away with banning

    No, it’s not bullshit.

    The other countries are thrown in to “disguise” the anti-Shia nature of Trump’s ban. It’s similar to David Frum’s infamous Axis of Evil. North Korea was included to “hide” the fact that the real targets were Israel’s two biggest enemies.

    • Agree: MEexpert, Z-man
    • Replies: @Z-man
    All for the glory of Zion.
    Frum should be arrested as a dual loyalist scum.
  13. @MEexpert
    The fundamental problem with how the Western powers, especially the US, treat the middle east is that they have no clue as to what makes the middle east go. They don't understand the tribal nature of the population. Worse, they do not understand about the real Islam. Their knowledge of Islam comes from studying Saudi Arabia or listening to the Israeli experts on Islam. They are confused about Iran and Hezbollah because they do not fit the model created by their study. They are puzzled how a small resistance movement like Hezbollah can defeat monster army like Israel twice and dares Israel to try it the third time.

    A piece of advice to the US generals and the diplomats. Try to understand the Shia Islam. A minor example of the conviction of Shia beliefs is the treatment of the first post Saddam governer of Iraq, Paul Brenner. He tried several times to see the Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani only to be rebuffed everytime. A man with the mightiest army behind him could not match wits with a small frail man sitting in a small house in Najaf, Iraq. Brenner was used to dealing with the pomp and glitter of Saudi Arabia and other Sheikhs of the middle east. Until the West in general and US in particular learn about Shia Islam and learn to deal with them the West will never be able to get anything done. You cannot bully them as you can the Monarchies. These monarchs have no sense of peoples' feelings or sufferings. They are more interested in saving their rule rather than what is best for the people.

    The best place to start is to study the events of Karbala and the martyrdom of Hussain, the grandson of the prophet Muhammad.

    You cannot bully them as you can the Monarchies. These monarchs have no sense of peoples’ feelings or sufferings. They are more interested in saving their rule rather than what is best for the people.

    True.

    That pretty much describes ruling classes in general as does this.

    There is the same mixture of wishful thinking, misinformation and arrogance…

  14. @MEexpert
    The fundamental problem with how the Western powers, especially the US, treat the middle east is that they have no clue as to what makes the middle east go. They don't understand the tribal nature of the population. Worse, they do not understand about the real Islam. Their knowledge of Islam comes from studying Saudi Arabia or listening to the Israeli experts on Islam. They are confused about Iran and Hezbollah because they do not fit the model created by their study. They are puzzled how a small resistance movement like Hezbollah can defeat monster army like Israel twice and dares Israel to try it the third time.

    A piece of advice to the US generals and the diplomats. Try to understand the Shia Islam. A minor example of the conviction of Shia beliefs is the treatment of the first post Saddam governer of Iraq, Paul Brenner. He tried several times to see the Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani only to be rebuffed everytime. A man with the mightiest army behind him could not match wits with a small frail man sitting in a small house in Najaf, Iraq. Brenner was used to dealing with the pomp and glitter of Saudi Arabia and other Sheikhs of the middle east. Until the West in general and US in particular learn about Shia Islam and learn to deal with them the West will never be able to get anything done. You cannot bully them as you can the Monarchies. These monarchs have no sense of peoples' feelings or sufferings. They are more interested in saving their rule rather than what is best for the people.

    The best place to start is to study the events of Karbala and the martyrdom of Hussain, the grandson of the prophet Muhammad.

    Absolutely correct, MEexpert.
    I suggest that readers, as well as advisers to Mr. Trump, read the various pronouncements made by Iranian leaders, particularly those by Leader Khomeini, to note their courage, and absolute resolve to defend their country and people. There is no hint of cowardice or backstabbing as you see on display just to the south in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Monarchies. Just one day after General Flynn threatens Iran and puts it on notice for testing missiles, the Iranian army tests a new missile and radar system. Their allies in Iraq, Syria and the Hizbollah make a formidable if not an indomitable resistance block to foreign powers.

  15. Well Trump had to respond to Iran’s missile launches to show that he isn’t a pussy or the media and opposition would have another reason to cry about him. He would have been the war mongering pussy (although it didn’t seem to hurt Obama when he was one) If you are worried about Trump starting something, blame Iran. Iran knew that as a newly sworn in President Trump could not look like a wimp in the first weeks of his administration.

    Iran is playing a game too.

    Of course, there is nothing short of all-out war that we can do to Iran and it is highly unlikely Trump will or can resort to that. Given that, the best course of action would have been to do nothing and explain to the American people what the reality on the ground is. Imagine that with both Insane McCain and crying Schumer in the media playing tag team.

  16. POTUS Trump

    Pull all US Troops out of the Middle East and Europe….Prosecute Hillary Clinton for War Crimes and Treason….

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Pull all US Troops out of the Middle East and Europe….Prosecute Hillary Clinton for War Crimes and Treason….
     
    Pull 'm out of Asia, Africa, and South America too as well as any in the polar antipodes.

    As for Hillary, no pardons, either. May as well do the same for Obomber and Bush and the rest of the neocon appeasers while we're at it.
  17. August 11, 2015 Retired generals and admirals back Iran nuclear deal in letter

    WASHINGTON — Three dozen retired generals and admirals released an open letter Tuesday supporting the Iran nuclear deal and urging Congress to do the same.

    http://www.stripes.com/news/middle-east/retired-generals-and-admirals-back-iran-nuclear-deal-in-letter-1.362469

  18. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @virgile
    The question should be what does Trump wants from Iran? Change its regime? Push it into negotiating on Yemen's future or to decrease its support of the enemies of Israel (Hezbollah)?

    Isn't it Trump's usual way to start a dialog in a position of strength? Finding any pretext to bully as a premise to start negotiation? Is Trump testing Iran to see the reaction? Is Iran ready to play that game?
    We have seen that with Mexico and with Australia...

    Trump wants Iran to roll over so Isreal and Saudi Arabia can go on ruling the Middle East without opposition.

    You know….the same people that oppress Christians in their own territory and directly funded the terrorists who behead and rape Christians.

    All of the things you listed are just talking points. Ultimately what they want from Iran is to join the West so it can be controlled. This means their women liberal sluts and their banks controlled by Walstreet.

    Ideally Iran split up into many different countries.

    I am sick of the whole Trump master negotiator meme. Trumpkins always give him much more credit than is deserved here.

    If Trump is such a master negotiator, why would he back himself in the corner and limit his options going forward which is exactly what he has done with both Iran and China.

    A more skilled negotiator would leave more avenues for success on the table. That is assuming though that Trump is even negotiating and is not just a Saudi and Jewish pawn.

  19. The CIA wants war like they do all across the globe of the U.S. empire.

    Aug 9, 2016 Kill Russians, kill Iranians, scare Assad!

    Ex CIA deputy Mike Morell – Aug 8 – Charlie Rose

    January 30, 2017 The CIA’s “Deep State”, Donald Trump and His “War on Terrorism”

    Donald Trump’s first act as president was a visit to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, where he addressed gathering of CIA employees. His journey directly in “the swamp” took place almost immediately after his inauguration, and was clearly an urgent first priority.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cia-trump-and-his-war-on-terrorism/5571722

  20. @anon

    The list looks like its intent is basically anti-Shia
     
    Why repeat bullshit?

    Libya, Sudan and Somalia have virtually 0 Shiites, and Syria is majority Sunni.

    The list is comprised of countries Trump can get away with banning

    It is easy to fall for this trap and to ignore the anti Iran attitude as the main reason . Using the powerful undercurrent of anxiety uncertainty fear pervading the large swath of American heartland, Trump is essentially following the cookbook out of Cheney-PNAC mafioso’s office That time it was Iraq This time it would be Iran .

    Iraq was not destroyed in one day It took 13 yrs to go back and it took 18 yrs to destroy it .

  21. POTUS Trump’s UN Ambassador Nikki Haley=Sihk prostitute with DC whorehouse bad breath….and syphullus sphirocheetes….

    • Replies: @pachyderm pachyderma
    Are you schizophrenic? Some of your postings are cogent and then there are those which sound like it were posted by a psychopath ... Did you take your meds today?
  22. @War for Blair Mountain
    POTUS Trump


    Pull all US Troops out of the Middle East and Europe....Prosecute Hillary Clinton for War Crimes and Treason....

    Pull all US Troops out of the Middle East and Europe….Prosecute Hillary Clinton for War Crimes and Treason….

    Pull ‘m out of Asia, Africa, and South America too as well as any in the polar antipodes.

    As for Hillary, no pardons, either. May as well do the same for Obomber and Bush and the rest of the neocon appeasers while we’re at it.

    • Replies: @Agent76
    Here is another good read jacques sheete. January 4, 2015 Americans need to understand that they have lost their country.

    “Americans need to understand that they have lost their country. The rest of the world needs to recognize that Washington is not merely the most complete police state since Stalinism, but also a threat to the entire world. The hubris and arrogance of Washington, combined with Washington’s huge supply of weapons of mass destruction, make Washington the greatest threat that has ever existed to all life on the planet. Washington is the enemy of all humanity.”—Paul Craig Roberts

    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2015/01/04/513867a-review-of-paul-craig-roberts-how-america-was-lost-from-911-to-the-policewarfare-state/
  23. People seem confused as to why the US continues to beleaguer Iran with unending saber rattling and more.

    Well, maybe we should ask Bibi.
    Netanyahu is on record as early as 1992 claiming that Iran was “close” to having a nuke.

    IN fact, check this out.

    Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979.
    By Scott Peterson, Staff writer NOVEMBER 8, 2011

    Breathless warnings that the Islamic Republic will soon be at the brink of nuclear capability have been made for decades. Here is a chronicle of predictions.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1108/Imminent-Iran-nuclear-threat-A-timeline-of-warnings-since-1979/Israel-s-one-year-timeframe-disproved-2010-11

    So, in Bibi’s case, that thing’s been filling its shorts for 25 years, and some of the other goofs have been dirtying their tutus for 38 years. Some threat, eh? There must be a lesson here somewhere.

    • Replies: @Z-man
    The foreign policy of the USA is made in Tel Aviv.
  24. @jacques sheete

    Pull all US Troops out of the Middle East and Europe….Prosecute Hillary Clinton for War Crimes and Treason….
     
    Pull 'm out of Asia, Africa, and South America too as well as any in the polar antipodes.

    As for Hillary, no pardons, either. May as well do the same for Obomber and Bush and the rest of the neocon appeasers while we're at it.

    Here is another good read jacques sheete. January 4, 2015 Americans need to understand that they have lost their country.

    “Americans need to understand that they have lost their country. The rest of the world needs to recognize that Washington is not merely the most complete police state since Stalinism, but also a threat to the entire world. The hubris and arrogance of Washington, combined with Washington’s huge supply of weapons of mass destruction, make Washington the greatest threat that has ever existed to all life on the planet. Washington is the enemy of all humanity.”—Paul Craig Roberts

    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2015/01/04/513867a-review-of-paul-craig-roberts-how-america-was-lost-from-911-to-the-policewarfare-state/

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    I have been preaching that message since the mid '80s. I think PCR is great, but he's a bit slow on the uptake since he doesn't seem to realize that the revolution of '76 was co-opted by the usual scum 'round about 1789.

    PCR is almost 100% correct but seems still to be a constitutionalist and that document was a huge link in the chain around our necks. When that thing was ratified "we" proles, peasants, and bourgeoisie lost Amerika.

    The anti-feds were correct.

    As for a worse police state since Stalin, it's no surprise since the rich organ suckers that run this cesspool supported that skank too. (I do hasten to admit though that he did do the world a favor by exterminating some of the Bolshie scum.) For some reason the knuckleheads in this country can't get it through their skulls that the Nazis were crushed for attempting something similar. And so it goes...
  25. Apparently the deal for Trump with the deep state and military (who run the country) was to support their neocon agenda in exchange for immunity to military coup.

  26. @Njegos
    No, it's not bullshit.

    The other countries are thrown in to "disguise" the anti-Shia nature of Trump's ban. It's similar to David Frum's infamous Axis of Evil. North Korea was included to "hide" the fact that the real targets were Israel's two biggest enemies.

    All for the glory of Zion.
    Frum should be arrested as a dual loyalist scum.

  27. @jacques sheete
    People seem confused as to why the US continues to beleaguer Iran with unending saber rattling and more.

    Well, maybe we should ask Bibi.
    Netanyahu is on record as early as 1992 claiming that Iran was “close” to having a nuke.


    IN fact, check this out.


    Imminent Iran nuclear threat? A timeline of warnings since 1979.
    By Scott Peterson, Staff writer NOVEMBER 8, 2011

    Breathless warnings that the Islamic Republic will soon be at the brink of nuclear capability have been made for decades. Here is a chronicle of predictions.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1108/Imminent-Iran-nuclear-threat-A-timeline-of-warnings-since-1979/Israel-s-one-year-timeframe-disproved-2010-11
     

    So, in Bibi's case, that thing's been filling its shorts for 25 years, and some of the other goofs have been dirtying their tutus for 38 years. Some threat, eh? There must be a lesson here somewhere.

    The foreign policy of the USA is made in Tel Aviv.

    • Replies: @nsa
    Can Trumpenstein so much as flush the toilet without calling Jerusalem.....er Tel Aviv? His cabinet looks like an AIPAC meeting where a couple of retired VFW boozers wandered in. His family looks like what you see exiting the temple.....ratty little monied jooies with their 5' 11' dyed blond shicksa trophies wobbling along on heels. His buildings and golf courses are the height of crass kike nouveau riche low culture. Looks like the white trash voters are taking it up the butt again......fighting endless wars for precious little israel while the tribe gets even richer.
  28. @MEexpert
    The fundamental problem with how the Western powers, especially the US, treat the middle east is that they have no clue as to what makes the middle east go. They don't understand the tribal nature of the population. Worse, they do not understand about the real Islam. Their knowledge of Islam comes from studying Saudi Arabia or listening to the Israeli experts on Islam. They are confused about Iran and Hezbollah because they do not fit the model created by their study. They are puzzled how a small resistance movement like Hezbollah can defeat monster army like Israel twice and dares Israel to try it the third time.

    A piece of advice to the US generals and the diplomats. Try to understand the Shia Islam. A minor example of the conviction of Shia beliefs is the treatment of the first post Saddam governer of Iraq, Paul Brenner. He tried several times to see the Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani only to be rebuffed everytime. A man with the mightiest army behind him could not match wits with a small frail man sitting in a small house in Najaf, Iraq. Brenner was used to dealing with the pomp and glitter of Saudi Arabia and other Sheikhs of the middle east. Until the West in general and US in particular learn about Shia Islam and learn to deal with them the West will never be able to get anything done. You cannot bully them as you can the Monarchies. These monarchs have no sense of peoples' feelings or sufferings. They are more interested in saving their rule rather than what is best for the people.

    The best place to start is to study the events of Karbala and the martyrdom of Hussain, the grandson of the prophet Muhammad.

    Overall, I agree with your comment. Adding insult to injury is that much of what has been going with the Islam and the Sunni/Shi’a split has also been grossly overblown and exploited by the West and the media in general. The damage caused here, I’m afraid, is that the perceptions caused in the minds of non-Muslims everywhere is that Muslims are viewed as a people that no one can trust. This will persist for a long time and influence policymakers now and in the future.

  29. Saudi Arabia, with whose rulers Trump recently had a long conversation, holds somewhat similar views about equating Shia Islam with Iran and the need to combat both.

    The Saudis make a lot of fuss about the treatment of the Arabian minority in Iran , even though they are Shia, because they are badly treated–even though they are Shia. Like so much of the bien pensant commentariat, Cockburn reduces everything to religion and does not seem to understand the behavior of nations is the result of emergent qualities of nations.

    But in its first weeks in office, it has been far more vocal about confronting a supposed Iranian threat than it has about eliminating Isis.

    Iran’s implied threat to launch misses at Israel proper if the West bank Palestinians are expelled must be nullified. Isis constitutes no such threat and will in fact present Israel with an opportunity.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Iran’s implied threat to launch misses at Israel proper if the West bank Palestinians are expelled must be nullified.

    Why, it doesn't bother me. Let BiBi do it alone if he has the balls.
    , @unseated
    Just to be clear, Sean, are you saying that there should be no response by any other country if the West Bank Palestinians are expelled?
  30. @Agent76
    Here is another good read jacques sheete. January 4, 2015 Americans need to understand that they have lost their country.

    “Americans need to understand that they have lost their country. The rest of the world needs to recognize that Washington is not merely the most complete police state since Stalinism, but also a threat to the entire world. The hubris and arrogance of Washington, combined with Washington’s huge supply of weapons of mass destruction, make Washington the greatest threat that has ever existed to all life on the planet. Washington is the enemy of all humanity.”—Paul Craig Roberts

    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2015/01/04/513867a-review-of-paul-craig-roberts-how-america-was-lost-from-911-to-the-policewarfare-state/

    I have been preaching that message since the mid ’80s. I think PCR is great, but he’s a bit slow on the uptake since he doesn’t seem to realize that the revolution of ’76 was co-opted by the usual scum ’round about 1789.

    PCR is almost 100% correct but seems still to be a constitutionalist and that document was a huge link in the chain around our necks. When that thing was ratified “we” proles, peasants, and bourgeoisie lost Amerika.

    The anti-feds were correct.

    As for a worse police state since Stalin, it’s no surprise since the rich organ suckers that run this cesspool supported that skank too. (I do hasten to admit though that he did do the world a favor by exterminating some of the Bolshie scum.) For some reason the knuckleheads in this country can’t get it through their skulls that the Nazis were crushed for attempting something similar. And so it goes…

  31. @Z-man
    The foreign policy of the USA is made in Tel Aviv.

    Can Trumpenstein so much as flush the toilet without calling Jerusalem…..er Tel Aviv? His cabinet looks like an AIPAC meeting where a couple of retired VFW boozers wandered in. His family looks like what you see exiting the temple…..ratty little monied jooies with their 5′ 11′ dyed blond shicksa trophies wobbling along on heels. His buildings and golf courses are the height of crass kike nouveau riche low culture. Looks like the white trash voters are taking it up the butt again……fighting endless wars for precious little israel while the tribe gets even richer.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Can Trumpenstein so much as flush the toilet without calling Jerusalem
     
    Hell, he can't even fill the toilet without permission from the Eternal (Chosen) Victims.

    A blowhard casino owner is the new Messiah for the trailer park trash. Chezuss H. Help Me!!!!

    Where the flip do people get their faith?

    , @Alden
    Know what I thought when I first saw his low ceilinged beige and gold living room? Jewwwwish.
  32. @War for Blair Mountain
    POTUS Trump's UN Ambassador Nikki Haley=Sihk prostitute with DC whorehouse bad breath....and syphullus sphirocheetes....

    Are you schizophrenic? Some of your postings are cogent and then there are those which sound like it were posted by a psychopath … Did you take your meds today?

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    I am just stating the received-canonical view of Nikki Haley:she is a slut...narcissist....money grubber....a pure sociopath who wages South Asian race war against Christian Russia and The Historic Native Born White American Working Class...
  33. Iran is the wiping boy of America’s Jew led Deep State. Trump just cannot afford to take them on – they are too powerful, too established.

    Nearly 100% of congress and the MSM have succumb to the terrorist Stockholm attacks of the Zionist Jews. Some still actually believe that Israel is the victim – but they are fewer and fewer by the day. Most fear for their personal future – if they do not attack Iran.

    Of course, behind it all is Israel’s fear of losing its hegemony over the ME. Even with having vastly superior weapons, Israel lost to Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hezbollah is supported by Iran. This is all about the Jews doing politically, what it could not do militarily. Mossad “by deception we make war.”

    Trump will try to peal way Iran from Russia with a “offer they cannot refuse.”

  34. If we get a war with Iran at least Americans will understand it doesn’t matter who they vote for… when a war is in the works at the Pentagon there is nothing to be done to stop it.

    Here’s hoping Trump is a man of his word and we’ll get this war this year. 10 years too late but at least now HD cameras are everywhere so we can watch things in high definition. Ukraine, Syria and Yemen have become boring.

  35. From an ethno-nationalist perspective I can kind of understand Trump’s position. By taking a pro-Assad, pro-Israel, and anti-Iranian position Trump is trying to reduce tensions between racially similar Semites by focusing on the Persians instead. It’s also clear from his personal comments about Arab culture that he prefers secular nationalists to religious fundamentalists. However, from a US perspective, his pro-Semite position antagonises a country which the US doesn’t really have any serious issues with.

    Anything is preferable to a foreign policy driven by globalists who are hell bent on destroying nation-states, but I’m sure there are better ways to improve the Middle East than by trying to start an unnecessary war with Iran.

  36. America at her best. The country that just cannot mind own business.
    I have not had any doubt that Trump is going to be as spectacular failure in every respect of foreign policy as Obama, Bush and Clinton were.

    Iran is most probably the most stable and serious player in ME among Muslim states. Unlike Arab countries this is the country of ancient culture and long memory. It is a nation state with own interests which Iranian government is guarding.
    USA also has to take into consideration Russia as Russia will not allow USA to attack and try to destroy Iran which is Russian old time neighbor and ally…
    Trump was talking about his desire to improve relations with Russia…
    Firstly there was bad step with new UN ambassador telling that sanctions will not be lifted until Crimea returned to Ukraine and Trump administration supporting this statement. Now, Trump is looking for excuses to start confrontation with Russian ally along Russia southern borders…
    It is sure way to “improve” relations with Russia. Considering he is also making “friends” in Beijing, Trump is for a very “good” start in his foreign policy.
    If Trump wants to see serious and real improvement in US- Russian relations removal of those anti missile systems along Russian borders would be a good start. Fat chance though.
    The new one is as bad as the old one was.

  37. I think we’re seeing the Trump administration take the 1st steps toward war with Iran. His advisers w/o exception hate Iran, Trump hates Iran, the Republican congress along with most Dems hate Iran. Our dearest friends and allies Saudi A and Israel hate Iran. Trump and friends seem to have the same idiot belief W had about Iraq, that Iran is a friend in waiting if we only give the people a chance at freedom from their leadership. And if that doesn’t work at least we will have prevented an Islamic country in that region from developing a thriving technologically advanced economy which is the greatest fear our Allies there have. And getting Iranian oil off the market is great incentive, too, that and the damage the Iranians could do to the Emirates would send the price of oil up enough for U.S. producers to go wild and for the Russkies to jump start their economy, easing their collective conscience about the fate of their friends. The only problem may be the American people, my fellow Americans broke my heart after 9-11 when they overwhelmingly embraced the invasion of Iraq. I have no faith left in the people, they are ignorant and poorly educated and easily deceived and nobody has ever loved war more than we do, but the people said no to Obama attacking Syria, so there is hope. But if I lived in Tehran I’d be digging a bomb shelter…

    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    I have no faith left in the people, they are ignorant and poorly educated and easily deceived...
     
    I feel your pain! I sometimes wonder if the masses are such masochists that they actually enjoy being taxed and deceived. They certainly embrace feel good mythology and prefer to wallow in ignorance.

    "The people" are no Messiah, either, and no doubt they'd call him crazy and crucify one if he had the chutzpah to show his face!
  38. @nsa
    Can Trumpenstein so much as flush the toilet without calling Jerusalem.....er Tel Aviv? His cabinet looks like an AIPAC meeting where a couple of retired VFW boozers wandered in. His family looks like what you see exiting the temple.....ratty little monied jooies with their 5' 11' dyed blond shicksa trophies wobbling along on heels. His buildings and golf courses are the height of crass kike nouveau riche low culture. Looks like the white trash voters are taking it up the butt again......fighting endless wars for precious little israel while the tribe gets even richer.

    Can Trumpenstein so much as flush the toilet without calling Jerusalem

    Hell, he can’t even fill the toilet without permission from the Eternal (Chosen) Victims.

    A blowhard casino owner is the new Messiah for the trailer park trash. Chezuss H. Help Me!!!!

    Where the flip do people get their faith?

  39. @Ivy Mike
    I think we're seeing the Trump administration take the 1st steps toward war with Iran. His advisers w/o exception hate Iran, Trump hates Iran, the Republican congress along with most Dems hate Iran. Our dearest friends and allies Saudi A and Israel hate Iran. Trump and friends seem to have the same idiot belief W had about Iraq, that Iran is a friend in waiting if we only give the people a chance at freedom from their leadership. And if that doesn't work at least we will have prevented an Islamic country in that region from developing a thriving technologically advanced economy which is the greatest fear our Allies there have. And getting Iranian oil off the market is great incentive, too, that and the damage the Iranians could do to the Emirates would send the price of oil up enough for U.S. producers to go wild and for the Russkies to jump start their economy, easing their collective conscience about the fate of their friends. The only problem may be the American people, my fellow Americans broke my heart after 9-11 when they overwhelmingly embraced the invasion of Iraq. I have no faith left in the people, they are ignorant and poorly educated and easily deceived and nobody has ever loved war more than we do, but the people said no to Obama attacking Syria, so there is hope. But if I lived in Tehran I'd be digging a bomb shelter...

    I have no faith left in the people, they are ignorant and poorly educated and easily deceived…

    I feel your pain! I sometimes wonder if the masses are such masochists that they actually enjoy being taxed and deceived. They certainly embrace feel good mythology and prefer to wallow in ignorance.

    “The people” are no Messiah, either, and no doubt they’d call him crazy and crucify one if he had the chutzpah to show his face!

  40. @Sean

    Saudi Arabia, with whose rulers Trump recently had a long conversation, holds somewhat similar views about equating Shia Islam with Iran and the need to combat both.
     
    The Saudis make a lot of fuss about the treatment of the Arabian minority in Iran , even though they are Shia, because they are badly treated--even though they are Shia. Like so much of the bien pensant commentariat, Cockburn reduces everything to religion and does not seem to understand the behavior of nations is the result of emergent qualities of nations.

    But in its first weeks in office, it has been far more vocal about confronting a supposed Iranian threat than it has about eliminating Isis.
     
    Iran's implied threat to launch misses at Israel proper if the West bank Palestinians are expelled must be nullified. Isis constitutes no such threat and will in fact present Israel with an opportunity.

    Iran’s implied threat to launch misses at Israel proper if the West bank Palestinians are expelled must be nullified.

    Why, it doesn’t bother me. Let BiBi do it alone if he has the balls.

  41. I know this won’t happen for a variety of reasons – some personal and some political but somebody has to buck the system and come clean to the American people. Trump needs an Eisenhower military industrial complex speech.

    He needs to come out on national TV and explain to America what getting involved in parts of the world that aren’t our business really means. Let the public know that you won’t get 6 months to build up your forces for an invasion of Iran. Ask the mothers and children of America if they want their sons, husbands, and fathers to die fighting an enemy that cannot cause us harm without risking the complete end of their existence. Ask those mothers and children if they know what are we really fighting for.

    He needs to ask the American people if they know why we are sticking our noses into the ME and Ukraine. He needs to ask them if they care about these places. He needs to ask them why it is up to us to give military guarantees that we really cannot keep. He needs to ask them why we give a damn about some sand dropped off onto an atoll in the South China Sea or some peninsula in the Black Sea.

    He needs to come clean about these enormous military and security state expenditures and ask the American people if they think this is money well spent.

    Trump has to put the American public into this discussion. Generally we see by the results of the elections that the people don’t want any more of the same, yet that seems to be all we get.

  42. @pachyderm pachyderma
    Are you schizophrenic? Some of your postings are cogent and then there are those which sound like it were posted by a psychopath ... Did you take your meds today?

    I am just stating the received-canonical view of Nikki Haley:she is a slut…narcissist….money grubber….a pure sociopath who wages South Asian race war against Christian Russia and The Historic Native Born White American Working Class…

  43. Hey Burncock we all know you’d be happy with hillary as president.

  44. @Sean

    Saudi Arabia, with whose rulers Trump recently had a long conversation, holds somewhat similar views about equating Shia Islam with Iran and the need to combat both.
     
    The Saudis make a lot of fuss about the treatment of the Arabian minority in Iran , even though they are Shia, because they are badly treated--even though they are Shia. Like so much of the bien pensant commentariat, Cockburn reduces everything to religion and does not seem to understand the behavior of nations is the result of emergent qualities of nations.

    But in its first weeks in office, it has been far more vocal about confronting a supposed Iranian threat than it has about eliminating Isis.
     
    Iran's implied threat to launch misses at Israel proper if the West bank Palestinians are expelled must be nullified. Isis constitutes no such threat and will in fact present Israel with an opportunity.

    Just to be clear, Sean, are you saying that there should be no response by any other country if the West Bank Palestinians are expelled?

  45. It wouldn’t happen, unless there is a wider war. There already is an existing Palestinian state (Jordan) and if it falls to Isis there will be a general war and in self defence, Israel will be forced to act aginst the enemy within. It wouldn’t be so bad, everyone will end up in the the state of their people. Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US’s job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.

    • Replies: @MEexpert

    Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US’s job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.
     
    But propping up of the murderous and corrupt regime of Israel is the US' job? Right?
    , @Z-man
    Spoken like a good land stealing Zionist.
    , @iffen
    Have you ever heard of Black September?
    , @Alden
    Didn't the West Bank, most of Jerusalem and more chunks of Israel belong to Jordan until 1967?
    A 50 year occupation gives the occupiers no rights whatsoever.
    So give it all, including E. Jerusalem back to Jordan. Then all those "2 legged cockroaches" that plague Israel so much will be living in Jordan and not the holy of holies.

    Problem solved, no more Palestine, just Jordan and Israel
  46. @Sean
    It wouldn't happen, unless there is a wider war. There already is an existing Palestinian state (Jordan) and if it falls to Isis there will be a general war and in self defence, Israel will be forced to act aginst the enemy within. It wouldn't be so bad, everyone will end up in the the state of their people. Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US's job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.

    Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US’s job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.

    But propping up of the murderous and corrupt regime of Israel is the US’ job? Right?

    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Sean
    Israel is going down the tubes as a Jewish state it is finished because US policy is explicitly for another Palestinian state (in addition to the already existing Palestinian state of Jordan). With Trump Israel has a chance of survival, so US jews will have to chose between Trump's issue of US replacement immigration or Israel. Most of them will choose Israel and they'll run interference for us. This would be a huge gift to the Jewish people, but without them having stake in Trump's nationalism, Diaspora Jews will subject the West to a continuing critique, and we cannot take much more of it. Lets just leave the Middle East to be decided by the people who live there and if they want Sunni radicalism in Jordan so be it.
  47. Feb 5, 2016 Iran Is ‘World’s Biggest State Sponsor of Terrorism’, Says World’s Biggest State Sponsor of Terrorism

    If there’s one thing that the United States truly excels at — aside from diabetes and predatory lending — it’s psychological projection.

    http://russia-insider.com/en/iran-worlds-biggest-sponsor-state-terrorism-says-worlds-biggest-sponsor-state-terrorism/ri18815

  48. @Sean
    It wouldn't happen, unless there is a wider war. There already is an existing Palestinian state (Jordan) and if it falls to Isis there will be a general war and in self defence, Israel will be forced to act aginst the enemy within. It wouldn't be so bad, everyone will end up in the the state of their people. Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US's job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.

    Spoken like a good land stealing Zionist.

    • Replies: @Sean
    So give Manhattan back to the Amerindian tribe of that name.
  49. @MEexpert

    Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US’s job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.
     
    But propping up of the murderous and corrupt regime of Israel is the US' job? Right?

    Israel is going down the tubes as a Jewish state it is finished because US policy is explicitly for another Palestinian state (in addition to the already existing Palestinian state of Jordan). With Trump Israel has a chance of survival, so US jews will have to chose between Trump’s issue of US replacement immigration or Israel. Most of them will choose Israel and they’ll run interference for us. This would be a huge gift to the Jewish people, but without them having stake in Trump’s nationalism, Diaspora Jews will subject the West to a continuing critique, and we cannot take much more of it. Lets just leave the Middle East to be decided by the people who live there and if they want Sunni radicalism in Jordan so be it.

  50. @Z-man
    Spoken like a good land stealing Zionist.

    So give Manhattan back to the Amerindian tribe of that name.

    • Replies: @Z-man
    Red herring, absolutely no equivalence and lame deflection. Typical Zionist talking point.
    , @Alden
    Sean if America belongs to the Indians then why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go back to the Russia from whence your grandparents came?

    That's what I always tell Jews who harangue me about how us goyim stole the land from the Indians. If you think it is such a terrible land theft, go back to the Shetls of Russia
  51. changed the balance of power between Sunni and Shia in Iraq and restarted the civil war there

    I happen to know many Muslims, some practicing. If there’s one thing they won’t give a shit about, that’s this ‘Sunni and Shia’ nonsense. I’m pretty sure this whole fake dichotomy was invented, relatively recently, by the west to split the anti-imperialist resistance. But I don’t think it gets much traction on the grassroots level. Therefore, every time I read something like this (“power between Sunni and Shia”), I strongly suspect it’s bullshit.

    • Replies: @Anon
    Well, since you're (presumably) not Muslim, I don't really see how it would come up. I mean, I have Protestant friends, and they never go into polemics about the difference between Baptists and Lutherans, though it certainly exists (and was historically quite unpleasant).
  52. @Sean
    So give Manhattan back to the Amerindian tribe of that name.

    Red herring, absolutely no equivalence and lame deflection. Typical Zionist talking point.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Amerindians did not end up with a country to go to in the way Palestinians have Jordan. I in the sphere of national rights Indians' claim to Manhattan is better than the West Bank Arabs claim to another Palestinian state. Every border in the world is decided by the correlation of forces on either side being in balance. Israel will have to give the West bank back or the Arabs there full rights unless US policy changes. And that will turn the Western Jews into a social nuclear bomb because the Arabs were backed against Israel: anti semitism . The difference between Obama and Trump is he is not going to disarm Iran as a way of cajoling Israel into a final offer of the West Bank for peace. No, he's going to crush Iran and then let the Arabs fend for themselves (if Sunni radicalism in a majority it's not America's job to kill people in their own country).Israel will then do what it needs to and we will have a settling of this thing at last with everyone behind their own borders.
  53. @Z-man
    Red herring, absolutely no equivalence and lame deflection. Typical Zionist talking point.

    Amerindians did not end up with a country to go to in the way Palestinians have Jordan. I in the sphere of national rights Indians’ claim to Manhattan is better than the West Bank Arabs claim to another Palestinian state. Every border in the world is decided by the correlation of forces on either side being in balance. Israel will have to give the West bank back or the Arabs there full rights unless US policy changes. And that will turn the Western Jews into a social nuclear bomb because the Arabs were backed against Israel: anti semitism . The difference between Obama and Trump is he is not going to disarm Iran as a way of cajoling Israel into a final offer of the West Bank for peace. No, he’s going to crush Iran and then let the Arabs fend for themselves (if Sunni radicalism in a majority it’s not America’s job to kill people in their own country).Israel will then do what it needs to and we will have a settling of this thing at last with everyone behind their own borders.

  54. @Sean
    It wouldn't happen, unless there is a wider war. There already is an existing Palestinian state (Jordan) and if it falls to Isis there will be a general war and in self defence, Israel will be forced to act aginst the enemy within. It wouldn't be so bad, everyone will end up in the the state of their people. Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US's job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.

    Have you ever heard of Black September?

    • Replies: @Sean
    Isis or something like it would have to rule a large part of Jordan before transfers could happen, and there would have to be a general middle east war to of course. The first step is to halt the massive US expenditure on propping up the hereditary dictatorship in Jordan
    , @Sean
    Isis or something like it would have to rule a large part of Jordan before transfers could happen, and there would likely be a general middle east war too of course. The first step is to halt the massive US expenditure on propping up the hereditary dictatorship in Jordan
  55. @Sean
    Amerindians did not end up with a country to go to in the way Palestinians have Jordan. I in the sphere of national rights Indians' claim to Manhattan is better than the West Bank Arabs claim to another Palestinian state. Every border in the world is decided by the correlation of forces on either side being in balance. Israel will have to give the West bank back or the Arabs there full rights unless US policy changes. And that will turn the Western Jews into a social nuclear bomb because the Arabs were backed against Israel: anti semitism . The difference between Obama and Trump is he is not going to disarm Iran as a way of cajoling Israel into a final offer of the West Bank for peace. No, he's going to crush Iran and then let the Arabs fend for themselves (if Sunni radicalism in a majority it's not America's job to kill people in their own country).Israel will then do what it needs to and we will have a settling of this thing at last with everyone behind their own borders.

    Gibberish & gobbledygook!

  56. @Sean
    Israel is going down the tubes as a Jewish state it is finished because US policy is explicitly for another Palestinian state (in addition to the already existing Palestinian state of Jordan). With Trump Israel has a chance of survival, so US jews will have to chose between Trump's issue of US replacement immigration or Israel. Most of them will choose Israel and they'll run interference for us. This would be a huge gift to the Jewish people, but without them having stake in Trump's nationalism, Diaspora Jews will subject the West to a continuing critique, and we cannot take much more of it. Lets just leave the Middle East to be decided by the people who live there and if they want Sunni radicalism in Jordan so be it.

    Can’t you write something that makes sense?

    • Replies: @Sean
    You base everything on morality. For the West to look after the interests of militarily defeated peoples and Muslim refugees fleeing failed Muslim states may be moral, but it does not make sense for the West
  57. @MEexpert
    The fundamental problem with how the Western powers, especially the US, treat the middle east is that they have no clue as to what makes the middle east go. They don't understand the tribal nature of the population. Worse, they do not understand about the real Islam. Their knowledge of Islam comes from studying Saudi Arabia or listening to the Israeli experts on Islam. They are confused about Iran and Hezbollah because they do not fit the model created by their study. They are puzzled how a small resistance movement like Hezbollah can defeat monster army like Israel twice and dares Israel to try it the third time.

    A piece of advice to the US generals and the diplomats. Try to understand the Shia Islam. A minor example of the conviction of Shia beliefs is the treatment of the first post Saddam governer of Iraq, Paul Brenner. He tried several times to see the Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani only to be rebuffed everytime. A man with the mightiest army behind him could not match wits with a small frail man sitting in a small house in Najaf, Iraq. Brenner was used to dealing with the pomp and glitter of Saudi Arabia and other Sheikhs of the middle east. Until the West in general and US in particular learn about Shia Islam and learn to deal with them the West will never be able to get anything done. You cannot bully them as you can the Monarchies. These monarchs have no sense of peoples' feelings or sufferings. They are more interested in saving their rule rather than what is best for the people.

    The best place to start is to study the events of Karbala and the martyrdom of Hussain, the grandson of the prophet Muhammad.

    Nobody understands why SHIA and SUNNy keep fighting each other although it is great help to Jewish people and western gaverments to fight Muslim countries invade Muslim countries to use both against each other to keep them busy and obtain their national resources like Petrol.
    Because of murder of Profits grand Son Hussain political Islam created SHIA Islam and based on that this two murdering each others permanently.
    And SHIA Islam doesn’t exist in Koran,SHIA Islam is political Islam to respons to Grand son murder.
    Why this dived exist this long and carry on forever after so much self distraction nobody knows,I guess this two deserved each others.

    • Replies: @MEexpert
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Read Islamic history written by Sunni Scholars and you will learn that "Political Islam" was born in the house of Bani Saqifa when people made Abu Bakr the Khalifah against the wishes and orders of the Prophet (see Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim). They were doing this instead of attending to the funeral of the Prophet. The charge you hear so much about Islam being spread by the sword is due to that "political Islam" when Omar sent armies to capture land everywhere.

    Actually, if you read Qur'an you will find that the word "Shia" appears several time. Shia means friend or followers. This is not the place to educate you in the Islamic history but you should some time try to read about it.

    Because of murder of Profits grand Son Hussain political Islam created SHIA Islam and based on that this two murdering each others permanently.
     
    Again you have it backwards. Muawiyah and Aiysha, products of political Islam, rebeled against the rightful Khalifah Ali and fought against him in the battles of Siffin and Jamal. Muawiyah killed many companions of Prophet and Ali. Later his son Yazid killed Prophet's grandson and imprisoned women and children of his family. Later generations of Muawiyah and Marwan have been killing Shiahs for the past 1400 years.
  58. @Halit
    Nobody understands why SHIA and SUNNy keep fighting each other although it is great help to Jewish people and western gaverments to fight Muslim countries invade Muslim countries to use both against each other to keep them busy and obtain their national resources like Petrol.
    Because of murder of Profits grand Son Hussain political Islam created SHIA Islam and based on that this two murdering each others permanently.
    And SHIA Islam doesn't exist in Koran,SHIA Islam is political Islam to respons to Grand son murder.
    Why this dived exist this long and carry on forever after so much self distraction nobody knows,I guess this two deserved each others.

    You have no idea what you are talking about. Read Islamic history written by Sunni Scholars and you will learn that “Political Islam” was born in the house of Bani Saqifa when people made Abu Bakr the Khalifah against the wishes and orders of the Prophet (see Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim). They were doing this instead of attending to the funeral of the Prophet. The charge you hear so much about Islam being spread by the sword is due to that “political Islam” when Omar sent armies to capture land everywhere.

    Actually, if you read Qur’an you will find that the word “Shia” appears several time. Shia means friend or followers. This is not the place to educate you in the Islamic history but you should some time try to read about it.

    Because of murder of Profits grand Son Hussain political Islam created SHIA Islam and based on that this two murdering each others permanently.

    Again you have it backwards. Muawiyah and Aiysha, products of political Islam, rebeled against the rightful Khalifah Ali and fought against him in the battles of Siffin and Jamal. Muawiyah killed many companions of Prophet and Ali. Later his son Yazid killed Prophet’s grandson and imprisoned women and children of his family. Later generations of Muawiyah and Marwan have been killing Shiahs for the past 1400 years.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Its true they have killed Shias for centuries. It's my view that is was a standard dynastic battle, no different from the Tudor monarchs and their surviving Plantagenet relatives.

    It was just Ali and Fatima, daughter and nephew against Aisha and her father Abu Bakr the strongest, richest, toughest warlord around
    People have to fight about something. Every religion splits into sects. Every nation has a civil war at one time or another.

    At least the Muslims blame the split on Mohammed's heirs instead of doing what Christians do, claiming that the old man up in the sky decreed this or that.
  59. iran won the fight in aleppo but lost the game.thats the coming future,a farmers prophecy.

  60. @iffen
    Have you ever heard of Black September?

    Isis or something like it would have to rule a large part of Jordan before transfers could happen, and there would have to be a general middle east war to of course. The first step is to halt the massive US expenditure on propping up the hereditary dictatorship in Jordan

    • Replies: @Alden
    You sure don't know much about the Kings of Jorfan, the Hashemite dynasty.
    The people of Jordan, especially the tough Beduins who are in the military are totally devoted to the royal family.
    Until around 1920 they were the guardians and rulers of Mecca and more or less regarded as representatives of God on earth Then the Saudi family conquered the area. The Hashmites with the help of the French and English kept their Northern Territory which was named Jordan.

    Their people really are devoted. And since Jordan is stable and safe compared to the surrounding countries the people are glad to live under the Hashemite Kings instead in the middle of the wars.
  61. @iffen
    Have you ever heard of Black September?

    Isis or something like it would have to rule a large part of Jordan before transfers could happen, and there would likely be a general middle east war too of course. The first step is to halt the massive US expenditure on propping up the hereditary dictatorship in Jordan

  62. @MEexpert
    Can't you write something that makes sense?

    You base everything on morality. For the West to look after the interests of militarily defeated peoples and Muslim refugees fleeing failed Muslim states may be moral, but it does not make sense for the West

  63. @nsa
    Can Trumpenstein so much as flush the toilet without calling Jerusalem.....er Tel Aviv? His cabinet looks like an AIPAC meeting where a couple of retired VFW boozers wandered in. His family looks like what you see exiting the temple.....ratty little monied jooies with their 5' 11' dyed blond shicksa trophies wobbling along on heels. His buildings and golf courses are the height of crass kike nouveau riche low culture. Looks like the white trash voters are taking it up the butt again......fighting endless wars for precious little israel while the tribe gets even richer.

    Know what I thought when I first saw his low ceilinged beige and gold living room? Jewwwwish.

  64. @MEexpert
    You have no idea what you are talking about. Read Islamic history written by Sunni Scholars and you will learn that "Political Islam" was born in the house of Bani Saqifa when people made Abu Bakr the Khalifah against the wishes and orders of the Prophet (see Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim). They were doing this instead of attending to the funeral of the Prophet. The charge you hear so much about Islam being spread by the sword is due to that "political Islam" when Omar sent armies to capture land everywhere.

    Actually, if you read Qur'an you will find that the word "Shia" appears several time. Shia means friend or followers. This is not the place to educate you in the Islamic history but you should some time try to read about it.

    Because of murder of Profits grand Son Hussain political Islam created SHIA Islam and based on that this two murdering each others permanently.
     
    Again you have it backwards. Muawiyah and Aiysha, products of political Islam, rebeled against the rightful Khalifah Ali and fought against him in the battles of Siffin and Jamal. Muawiyah killed many companions of Prophet and Ali. Later his son Yazid killed Prophet's grandson and imprisoned women and children of his family. Later generations of Muawiyah and Marwan have been killing Shiahs for the past 1400 years.

    Its true they have killed Shias for centuries. It’s my view that is was a standard dynastic battle, no different from the Tudor monarchs and their surviving Plantagenet relatives.

    It was just Ali and Fatima, daughter and nephew against Aisha and her father Abu Bakr the strongest, richest, toughest warlord around
    People have to fight about something. Every religion splits into sects. Every nation has a civil war at one time or another.

    At least the Muslims blame the split on Mohammed’s heirs instead of doing what Christians do, claiming that the old man up in the sky decreed this or that.

  65. @Sean
    It wouldn't happen, unless there is a wider war. There already is an existing Palestinian state (Jordan) and if it falls to Isis there will be a general war and in self defence, Israel will be forced to act aginst the enemy within. It wouldn't be so bad, everyone will end up in the the state of their people. Anyway, the main thing I am saying is that propping up the family dictatorship that currently runs the Palestinian state of Jordan in not the US's job and the massive defence construction projects currently underway in Jordan should stop.

    Didn’t the West Bank, most of Jerusalem and more chunks of Israel belong to Jordan until 1967?
    A 50 year occupation gives the occupiers no rights whatsoever.
    So give it all, including E. Jerusalem back to Jordan. Then all those “2 legged cockroaches” that plague Israel so much will be living in Jordan and not the holy of holies.

    Problem solved, no more Palestine, just Jordan and Israel

  66. @Sean
    So give Manhattan back to the Amerindian tribe of that name.

    Sean if America belongs to the Indians then why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and go back to the Russia from whence your grandparents came?

    That’s what I always tell Jews who harangue me about how us goyim stole the land from the Indians. If you think it is such a terrible land theft, go back to the Shetls of Russia

  67. @Sean
    Isis or something like it would have to rule a large part of Jordan before transfers could happen, and there would have to be a general middle east war to of course. The first step is to halt the massive US expenditure on propping up the hereditary dictatorship in Jordan

    You sure don’t know much about the Kings of Jorfan, the Hashemite dynasty.
    The people of Jordan, especially the tough Beduins who are in the military are totally devoted to the royal family.
    Until around 1920 they were the guardians and rulers of Mecca and more or less regarded as representatives of God on earth Then the Saudi family conquered the area. The Hashmites with the help of the French and English kept their Northern Territory which was named Jordan.

    Their people really are devoted. And since Jordan is stable and safe compared to the surrounding countries the people are glad to live under the Hashemite Kings instead in the middle of the wars.

    • Replies: @Sean
    Assad had his Alawites. Abdullah's Beduins would fair no better. The people have had enough of family dictatorships but US policy is to freeze the situation and hold the people down with an El Salvador style police state.

    https://news.vice.com/article/the-great-wall-of-jordan-how-the-us-wants-to-keep-the-islamic-state-out
  68. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    changed the balance of power between Sunni and Shia in Iraq and restarted the civil war there
     
    I happen to know many Muslims, some practicing. If there's one thing they won't give a shit about, that's this 'Sunni and Shia' nonsense. I'm pretty sure this whole fake dichotomy was invented, relatively recently, by the west to split the anti-imperialist resistance. But I don't think it gets much traction on the grassroots level. Therefore, every time I read something like this ("power between Sunni and Shia"), I strongly suspect it's bullshit.

    Well, since you’re (presumably) not Muslim, I don’t really see how it would come up. I mean, I have Protestant friends, and they never go into polemics about the difference between Baptists and Lutherans, though it certainly exists (and was historically quite unpleasant).

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    Differences exist, of course, just like there's a difference between big-enders and little-enders in Gulliver's Travels. But these differences don't explain anything; they're not what this is all about. It's bullshit, liberal 'identity politics' that has nothing to do with the root causes.
  69. @Anon
    Well, since you're (presumably) not Muslim, I don't really see how it would come up. I mean, I have Protestant friends, and they never go into polemics about the difference between Baptists and Lutherans, though it certainly exists (and was historically quite unpleasant).

    Differences exist, of course, just like there’s a difference between big-enders and little-enders in Gulliver’s Travels. But these differences don’t explain anything; they’re not what this is all about. It’s bullshit, liberal ‘identity politics’ that has nothing to do with the root causes.

  70. @Alden
    You sure don't know much about the Kings of Jorfan, the Hashemite dynasty.
    The people of Jordan, especially the tough Beduins who are in the military are totally devoted to the royal family.
    Until around 1920 they were the guardians and rulers of Mecca and more or less regarded as representatives of God on earth Then the Saudi family conquered the area. The Hashmites with the help of the French and English kept their Northern Territory which was named Jordan.

    Their people really are devoted. And since Jordan is stable and safe compared to the surrounding countries the people are glad to live under the Hashemite Kings instead in the middle of the wars.

    Assad had his Alawites. Abdullah’s Beduins would fair no better. The people have had enough of family dictatorships but US policy is to freeze the situation and hold the people down with an El Salvador style police state.

    https://news.vice.com/article/the-great-wall-of-jordan-how-the-us-wants-to-keep-the-islamic-state-out

  71. http://thesaker.is/artillery-duels-in-eastern-ukraine-propaganda-and-reality/

    Comment section: “… the implementation of the exercise [US/NATO troops on the border with Russia] and probably most of those for the year 2017 would have been signed off before the new administration of the USA took power. This again is a case of have to sit through the crap of the previous CIA / NeoCon administration of Obama (and yes, he was a CIA asset), and wait and watch as to the moves DT’s administration is going to make. Also interesting is the full decoupling from USD trade by the Iranians in March. As this trend continues, the power of the US diminishes. The real war is behind the scenes in finance and trade.”

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