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The Arab Spring Began in Hope, But Ended in Desolation

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Arab Spring was always a misleading phrase, suggesting that what we were seeing was a peaceful transition from authoritarianism to democracy similar to that from communism in Eastern Europe. The misnomer implied an over-simplified view of the political ingredients that produced the protests and uprisings of 2011 and over-optimistic expectations about their outcome.

Five years later it is clear that the result of the uprisings has been calamitous, leading to wars or increased repression in all but one of the six countries where the Arab Spring principally took place. Syria, Libya and Yemen are being torn apart by civil wars that show no sign of ending. In Egypt and Bahrain autocracy is far greater and civil liberties far less than they were prior to 2011. Only in Tunisia, which started off the surge towards radical change, do people have greater rights than they did before.

What went so disastrously wrong? Some failed because the other side was too strong, as in Bahrain where demands for democratic rights by the Shia majority were crushed by the Sunni monarchy. Saudi Arabia sent in troops and Western protests at the repression were feeble. This was in sharp contrast to vocal Western denunciations of Bashar al-Assad’s brutal suppression of the uprising by the Sunni Arab majority in Syria. The Syrian war had social, political and sectarian roots but it was the sectarian element that predominated.

Why did intolerant and extreme Islam trump secular democracy? It did so because nationalism and socialism were discredited as the slogans of the old regimes, often military regimes that had transmuted into police states controlled by a single ruling family. Islamic movements were the main channel for dissent and opposition to the status quo, but they had little idea how to replace it. This became evident in Egypt where the protesters never succeeded in taking over the state and the Muslim Brotherhood found that winning elections did not bring real power.

The protest movements at the beginning of 2011 presented themselves as progressive in terms of political and civil liberty and this belief was genuine. But there had been a real change in the balance of power in the Arab world over the previous 30 years with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf monarchies taking over leadership from secular nationalist states. It was one of the paradoxes of the Arab Spring that rebels supposedly seeking to end dictatorship in Syria and Libya were supported by absolute monarchies from the Gulf.

The West played a role in supporting uprisings against leaders they wanted to see displaced such as Muammar Gaddafi and Assad. But they gave extraordinarily little thought to what would replace these regimes. They did not see that the civil war in Syria was bound to destabilise Iraq and lead to a resumption of the Sunni-Shia war there.

An even grosser miscalculation was not to see that the armed opposition in Syria and Iraq was becoming dominated by extreme jihadis. Washington and its allies long claimed that there was a moderate non-sectarian armed opposition in Syria though this was largely mythical. In areas where Isis and non-Isis rebels ruled they were as brutal as the government in Damascus. The non-sectarian opposition fled abroad, fell silent or was killed and it was the most militarised and fanatical Islamic movements that flourished in conditions of permanent violence.

Country-by-country

1. MOROCCO

Concessions by King Mohammed VI, including a referendum in July 2011 that led to changes in the constitution, helped ensure that protests fizzled out by end of 2012.

2. ALGERIA

Barely affected after an initial year-long state of emergency; some terrorist activity, including 2013 gas plant attack in which dozens of foreign hostages were killed.

3. TUNISIA

The birthplace of the Arab Spring is also its one success story. There were free elections in 2011 and 2013, and the country is largely peaceful – although up to 300 people died in the unrest that overthrew President Ben Ali in 2011. Terrorist attacks in 2015 have cast a shadow, and threaten to cause a disastrous fall in tourism.

4. LIBYA

Hopes raised by Nato-aided overthrow of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi in August 2011 were bitterly disappointed. An elected parliament, the General National Congress, took power in August 2012 but was forced to withdraw to Tobruk as a rival government seized Tripoli. Much of the country is now under control of neither, with Isis established in some parts.

5. EGYPT

Up to 900 people were killed in protests that led to fall of President Hosni Mubarak in 2011. His successor, Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood, was ousted by the army in July 2013. Nearly 1,000 people were killed in the protests that followed. A new President, General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, was elected in 2014; hundreds of Muslim Brotherhood members have since been sentenced to death.

6. LEBANON

The country has taken in more than a million Syrian refugees as a result of the Spring. Also at risk of violence spilling over from Syria. Sectarian violence in some cities, notably Tripoli.

7. JORDAN

Moderate protests led to modest reforms, and a few changes of government, by King Abdullah II. The main effect of the Spring has been the arrival of a least 600,000 Syrian refugees (and a similar number of Syrians who are not classified as refugees).

8. SYRIA

A few weeks of hope in 2011. Since then, endless catastrophe, defined as a civil war by the UN since mid-2012. Up to 350,000 people have died, 4.4 million are refugees, swathes of the country are controlled by Isis, moderate rebels have been massacred, the Assad regime remains (partly) in place, and intervention by foreign powers – including Russia, Iran, the US, France and the UK – has not slowed the slaughter.

9. IRAQ

Minor protests in 2011 and major ones in 2012-13, aimed at corruption and anti-Shia discrimination. The electoral defeat of Nouri al-Maliki as Prime Minister in 2014 came too late to disperse the resentment; by then, Isis was running amok. Despite recent gains by the Iraqi army, large regions are under Isis control.

ORDER IT NOW

10. SAUDI ARABIA

Kept a lid on domestic discontent through a mix of authoritarianism and state largesse. Helped crush protest in Bahrain. Military intervention in Yemen has been bloody and inconclusive. Plummeting oil prices and a change of monarch have destabilised the regime.

11. KUWAIT

Protests in 2011-12 fizzled out after fall of one government. The Al-Sabah family continues to rule.

12. BAHRAIN

Around 30 people died when protests against the ruling Khalifa family were suppressed, with Saudi help, in early 2011. Thousands have since been jailed in the crackdown by the Sunni regime on its majority Shia population.

13. QATAR

Largely unaffected by domestic protests, but involved in upheavals elsewhere, notably by joining the Nato-led campaign that overthrew Colonel Gaddafi in Libya.

14. UAE

Calls for greater democracy fizzled out. Remains stable and, for now, prosperous.

15. OMAN

Protests in 2011 led to the creation of a Public Authority for Consumer Protection.

16. YEMEN

President Ali Abdullah Saleh was forced out of the country and office in, respectively, 2011 and 2012. An uprising by Shia rebels led by Abdul-Malik al-Houthi, which began in 2014, led to the flight of Saleh’s successor, Abd Rabbuh Mansur Hadi, in 2015. The Iran-aligned Houthis now control the capital but are under attack from a Saudi-led Sunni coalition.

Timeline

2011

14 Jan: after several weeks of protests in Tunisia, President Ben Ali resigns.

25 Jan-25 Feb: protests in Egypt and Lebanon (25 Jan); Yemen (3 Feb); Bahrain and Jordan (14th); Libya (15th); Morocco and Iraq (20th); Algeria (22nd); Jordan (25th.)

11 Feb: Hosni Mubarak resigns as President of Egypt.

6 Mar: unrest in Deraa, Syria.

14-15 Mar: Bahrain unrest crushed with Saudi help.

19 Mar: Nato intervenes to support Libyan rebels.

3 June: President Ali Abdullah Saleh flees Yemen.

July: Syrian defectors form the Free Syrian Army.

20-22 Aug: Libyan rebels take Tripoli.

20 Oct: Muammar Gaddafi killed in Sirte.

23 Oct: Islamist Ennahda party wins elections in Tunisia.

2012

27 Feb: Abd Rabbo Mansour Hadi elected Yemen’s President.

24-30 Jun: Mohamed Morsi is elected President of Egypt.

7 July: elections in Libya.

11 Sep: Islamists attack US diplomatic compound, Benghazi.

2013

9 May: Isis formed.

3 July: Morsi ousted as Egypt’s elected President.

21 Aug: chemical attack in Damascus; US and UK vow “serious response”.

29 Aug: Commons votes against anti-Assad action.

2014

4 Jan: Isis takes Fallujah, Iraq.

14 Jan: Isis takes Raqqa, Syria.

28 May: Abdel Fattah al-Sisi elected Egypt’s President.

29 Jun: Isis declares “caliphate”.

8 Aug: US-led coalition starts air strikes against Isis in Iraq.

19 Aug: Isis beheads its first Western hostage, James Foley.

22 Sep: US-led coalition starts air strikes against Isis in Syria.

21 Dec: Beji Caid Essebsi wins Tunisia’s presidential election.

2015

7 Jan: Charlie Hebdo terror attacks in France; 12 die.

26 Jan: Saudi-led air strikes on Yemen’s Houthi rebels.

1 Apr: Isis takes Palmyra.

26 Jun: 38 killed in beach attack in Sousse, Tunisia.

14 July: Iranian nuclear deal.

21 Oct: Russian airliner brought down in Sinai; 224 killed.

30 Sep: Russia starts strikes against Syrian rebels.

12 Nov: Mohammed Emwazi (“Jihadi John”) killed.

13 Nov: Paris terror attacks.

20 Nov: UN backs anti-Isis action; UK follows suit (2 Dec).

28 Dec: Iraq retakes Ramadi.

2016

3 Jan: Saudi Arabia executes 47 alleged “terrorists”.

6 Jan: images of starving people emerge from Madaya, Syria

(Reprinted from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Arab Spring, ISIS, Shias and Sunnis 

62 Comments to "The Arab Spring Began in Hope, But Ended in Desolation"

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  1. “What went so disastrously wrong?”

    Why do you think the end result was not the intended result?

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  2. Ask the Hebrews

  3. OTOH Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades but, under Erdogan, is slipping towards dictatorship. It maybe that a recrudescent Islam has made any sort of secular democratic rule impossible. While General al Sisi’s regime was ‘elected’ it relied on the Army and al Sisi’s own impeccable Islamic credentials to topple Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood and his regime maybe the best we can hope for in the region.

    Even if Islam wasn’t a factor, outside of Turkey, the lack of any real industrial economy in Muslim nations combined with high birthrates, have created a large population of young men with almost no chance of finding well compensated employment outside of government. This creates a situation where holding political power has as much to do with one’s economic success as any political arrangements. With the military and the mosque being the only institutions with the power to create or topple governments democratic rule is largely meaningless.

    • Agree: Thirdeye
    • Replies: , ,
  4. A good Hasbara job, as usual, Patrick Cockburn.

    For readers information – The so-called “Arab Spring” succeeded its agenda for which it was given birth by the US State Department and Zionist Jewish funded NGOs. It destroyed all possible future challenges to the Zionist entity.

    During his visit to Israel in March 2014, Gen. Martin Dempsey told reporters that the current instability across the Middle East as result of the so-called Arab Spring will benefit the Zionist entity in the long run. He stated that several American Sunni allies in the Middle East, who are worried of the rising power of Iran, (a Shi’tte-majority nation) are finding Israel as an ally. Tehran is known for its support of anti-Israel Shi’tte regime in Iraq, the Ba’athist regime in Damascus, Shi’tte Hizbullah and Sunni Hamas/Islamic Jihad.

    The Arab Spring was first experimented in Tunisia over three years ago. It replaced the unpopular regime of pro-American Ben Ali with Moncef Marzouki, a man groomed by the Jewish billionaire George Soro’s Open Society. The Israel Lobby (AIPAC) blessed the ruling “Islamist” al-Nahda party recently.

    After Tunisia, the Arab Spring was exported to Libya, Egypt, Yemen and Syria. In Egypt, the unpopular military dictatorship of Husni Mubarak is replaced with military dictatorship of Gen. el-Sisi, a Crypto Jew (born to a Moroccan Jewish mother).

    A bloody regime change also succeeded in the overthrow and murder of Libyan leader Qaddafi, who was considered an enemy of Israel.

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/04/01/gen-dempsey-israel-benefits-from-arab-spring/

    • Replies: ,
  5. says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    There is not and never has been a free democratic Arab country EVER in all of history. That should tell us something right there.

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  6. Any Arab “anything” which starts with reciting Federalist Papers and Locke will, inevitably, end up with some guy in turban with Quran in one hand and AK-47 (or Singer, wink, wink) in another. But they don’t teach that thing in Ivy League. But that is what it all comes down to. That is why, I guess, elimination of Arab secular nationalists dictators is such a big business of the US–let the “freedom” ring (wink, wink).

  7. Anyone dumb enough to think anything good for the world could come out of the “Arab Spring” should be disqualified from voting or holding office.

  8. that is because the arab spring was used for perverse purposes. Kinda sad. remember the hongkong protests? ukraine protests? same shit. the reason why china kicked out foreign NGOs.

  9. Still trying to make Muslims look dumb? Not even Rehmat the mad self-referencing blogger could really believe the obvious crap you can find online about Al Sisi having a Jewish mother – unless you can believe too that he grew up next to Moshe Dayan and that Nasser was Jewish.

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  10. In Egypt, the unpopular military dictatorship of Husni Mubarak is replaced with military dictatorship of Gen. el-Sisi, a Crypto Jew (born to a Moroccan Jewish mother).

    It seems that only Jews ever want to lead Arab countries. I’ve read that Morsi and Mubarak were both crypto Jews as is Assad, Bin Laden, Bagdhadi, Erdogan, the Sauds, Khomeini and even Muhammed.

  11. The Arab Spring was a delusion which took hold because many Western politicians and the liberal media are continually clutching at straws.

  12. Rehmat,

    can you give a precise description of why you accuse Mr. Cockburn of ‘hasbara’?

    I know what the word means, please give your arguments for how he fits the definition.

    You would likely have more fun on e.g., the Wikipedia, where there are many real hasbara, and they are running it.

    You make the occasional comment which has the point or two that make sense, also, as pointed in my earlier reply to you, spout pure nonsense much of the time.

    • Replies: ,
  13. The West played a role in supporting uprisings against leaders they wanted to see displaced such as Muammar Gaddafi and Assad. But they gave extraordinarily little thought to what would replace these regimes. They did not see that the civil war in Syria was bound to destabilise Iraq and lead to a resumption of the Sunni-Shia war there.

    Are you trying to tell us that Iraq was a stable country? I do not think that Iraq required a civil war in Syria to become destabilized. I also disagree with the claim that the West ( whoever that is) gave little thought to the consequences of their actions. It seems that the only people who give little thought to their actions are the myriads of “analysts and thinkers” who seem to multiply faster than a bacteria in a Petri dish. I have a simple test in determining who is a fool. If someone’s action, no matter how stupid it looks to us, benefits that someone, than he is not a fool. If on the other hand an action harms the originator than he is a fool. I do not see any harm coming to the US from all the mayhem in the Middle East.

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  14. I have a simple test in determining who is a fool. If someone’s action, no matter how stupid it looks to us, benefits that someone, than he is not a fool. If on the other hand an action harms the originator than he is a fool. I do not see any harm coming to the US from all the mayhem in the Middle East.

    I like your test, but I disagree with your assertion that the US has not suffered any harm from all the mayhem in the Middle East. Case in point? I believe it was general Patreaus, himself, who testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee that:

    the enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to advance our interest in the AOR (Area of Responsibility). Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world. Meanwhile Al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support. The conflict also gives Iran influence in the Arab world through its clients, Lebanese Hizbollah and Hamas.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/229502/petraeuss-israel-problem-andrew-c-mccarthy

    That said, I think your test indeed applies perfectly well to the Zionist project. They are the prime beneficiaries of all the mayhem in the ME, at the US taxpayers’ expense and in all the lives lost. I also think that Mearsheimer and Walt did an excellent job in documenting the harm the special relationship has done to American interests.

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  15. This is what happens when you deliberately ignore the power of demographics. This is what happens when people who could maybe support two children each have six.

    Take Syria. The government banned contraceptives, and propagandized that people needed to all breed like crazy because it would be great – and as is true for all nations without an open frontier, it was a lie. The population of Syria doubled every 18 years for nearly three generations, and then the water ran out and food ran out and the place collapsed. And yet, there is a virtual ban on Assad’s policy of breeding his subjects like cattle.

    When populations push up against limits, you don’t suddenly get mass famine. You get slow grinding poverty. On any given day there is always some other thing that is perhaps more important than population growth, but like gravity, population growth is inexorable, the pressure builds and builds. The poverty frays the social structure, and no matter what anyone does – more capitalism, less capitalism, more democracy, less democracy, western intervention, no western intervention, etc., things fall apart.

    Ultimately this is the result of nearly 50 years of neoliberal propaganda, hiding the old pragmatic consensus of Malthus and Riccardo and John Stuart Mill and John Maynard Keynes, and demanding that people having more children than they can support is guaranteed to always be a great thing.

  16. Men of intemperate minds cannot self rule, their passions form their fetters.

  17. Overbreeding is less of a risk in a high-potential population. It’s a gamble, true, but those six poor kids can produce more than their costs. E.g., New England Puritans in the 17th century, Ashkenazi Jews (and to a lesser extent, other European immigrants) in the “Great Wave” to the US.

    The reality is very different for other populations. It’s like oil exploration. BP found that when the odds were 10%, the reality was 1% success. But when the odds were determined to be 75%, the reality turned out to be almost 100% success.

  18. But OOZ darling, Gen. Moshe Dayan and Gen. Ariel Sharon were atheist like Karl Marx. They all used their Jewish mothers to fool idiots like you. Gen. al-Sisi is also playing the same trick by using his Muslim father to fool Egyptian, while adored by Israeli Jews.

    Gen. Sisi received praise from several Israeli leaders including prime minister Netanyahu. On January 31, 2014, Alex Traiman at JNS quoted former Israeli defense minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer saying that Israel supported el-Sisi, but “we shouldn’t go out on the roofs and cry out in favor of el-Sisi. But what is going on in Egypt is positive for Israel, and you cannot deny it.”

    “Abdul Fattah El-Sisi is Egypt’s strong man right now and has been fighting against radical Islam and against the Muslim Brothers (members of the Muslim Brotherhood). This is very positive both for Egypt, but also for Israel and the entire Middle East,” said former Israeli Ambassador to Egypt Zvi Mazel.

    Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media. Many top pro-Israel American lawmakers including Sen. John McCain, John Kerry, Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton , Henry Kissinger and Madeline Albright have dined with al-Sisi in Cairo…..

    http://rehmat1.com/2014/12/04/egypt-under-military-rule-is-good-for-israel/

    • Replies: ,
  19. How could you miss the obvious: Cockburn’s victims are usually victims of USrael fascism.

    Whosoever, recommend or believe Wickipedia, founded by an Israeli army Colonel – must be a rat under water.

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  20. I don’t know if the quote is apocryphal but Erdogan supposedly said: ” Democracy is a train, you ride it to where you want to go, then you get off.”

  21. America and the ‘democratic’ West have no right to intervene in the sovereign affairs of foreign states. This arrogant propensity is a huge part of the problem. Let the people of that region determine their own futures. It’s not America’s business. Our government should tend to the pressing needs of its citizens.

    Ironically, preemptive Zio-American invasions needlessly destroyed two rising, secular Arab countries (Iraq and Libya) that sought no war with America and were no threat to the American people. A vast criminal conspiracy emanating from Washington culminated in the invasion and destruction of those two nations. Since when isn’t premeditated mass murder a crime?

    These wars of choice produced immeasurable suffering and wholesale destruction. Yet no one responsible for these wars has ever been brought to justice or so much as rebuked.

    Indeed, these war crimes have never even been addressed or treated as such. At worst, they are referred to as ‘blunders’ or ‘mistakes’ in our pro-war, pro-Zionist media. These deeds and this mindset are the hallmark of an evil empire.

    In a just world where the rule of law is paramount, those responsible for these wars of aggression would be brought to justice. But Zio-Washington operates above the law and outside the law.

    In the meantime, Arab political change will happen at its own pace. But let us strive to ‘do no further harm’. We have enough of our own problems to deal with. Besides, our armies have slaughtered perhaps as many as one million people since 2003 alone. The wanton killings must stop.

    It is our meddlesome government in Washington that’s the world’s greatest problem. Naturally, the Israeli factor cannot be ignored either since it’s the Israelis and their domestic operatives who shape Washington’s barbarous policies throughout the Middle East.

    This over-sized, extra-national influence is why US tax dollars continue to subsidize the destruction of Palestine, the unconditional arming of nuclear Israel, the ongoing destabilization of Iran, Lebanon and Syria, as well as arming many of that region’s worst tyrants, including the Saudi royal family and the Kuwaiti Emir.

    Let’s be clear: those who launch aggressive wars must be brought to justice, even if they do it while nesting high up in Official Washington.

    Unfortunately, these serial murderers are presently feted as celebrities and treated like heroes. But it’s past time to bring down the evil empire and deliver all mass-murderers to justice. This belated retribution will be a blessing to humanity.

    • Agree: geokat62
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  22. .

    excellent post Mark

    I would just add that IMHO nothing will change until we audit and end the Fed

    as long as they have the power to create trillion$ effortlessly out of thin air and as long as money is the lifeblood of politics, nothing will change

    Since when isn’t premeditated mass murder a crime?

    in the meantime, we’ll all live (or die) in a surreal world of endless wars for Israel

    http://novalight.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ziosatan1.jpg?w=640

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  23. The Fed has nothing to do with it. Israel has nothing to do with it. All the problems all the time have one single cause. Humans and their inability to change. The whole of human history is a catalogue of wholesale murder committed for all kinds of reasons. Territorial, religious, economic, racist, etc. I once saw a movie in which a couple of children ask an old man why there is war. He answers the war is because there are people. Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted. If I offer you a bribe and you accept it is it 100% my fault? Who is worse?

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  24. Gen. al-Sisi has been depicted as “defender of democracy and secularism” by the Jewish-controlled western mainstream media.

    Actually I’ve mostly seen negative reports on him, certainly no defender of democracy labels.

    However he clearly is a defender of secularism, christians and Egyptian natonalism.

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  25. {Let’s be clear: those who launch aggressive wars must be brought to justice, even if they do it while nesting high up in Official Washington.
    Unfortunately, these serial murderers are presently feted as celebrities and treated like heroes. But it’s past time to bring down the evil empire and deliver all mass-murderers to justice. This belated retribution will be a blessing to humanity.}

    Good sentiment: but how to do it ?
    Who is going to do it ?

    War criminal Blair was given the post of Middle East peace envoy (!): no, it’s no misprint. The war criminal who co-invaded Iraq with Bush, and caused death and destruction to several hundred thousand Iraqi civilians, was given the cushy post of “peace envoy”: what a sick joke.

    War criminal Bush is enjoying a peaceful retirement on his vast ranch, painting, completely oblivious to the death and destruction still going on in Iraq, after he unleashed the demons with his criminal invasion.

    And here is a lovely picture of war criminal Cheney surrounded by family.

    http://www.npr.org/2015/12/03/458361257/dick-cheneys-bust-unveiled-at-the-capitol-as-hes-lightly-roasted

    Melts one’s heart.
    Lovely little grandchildren. God bless them. May they live long and happy lives.
    Bet the family applauding the war criminal is oblivious to the fact that the evil man is responsible for the deaths of 10s of 1,000s of Iraqi grandchildren.
    What a sick show.

    So the question remains: how to bring these war criminals to Justice ?
    No international body can do it, because US runs the show and runs the roost.
    The only entity that can do it, is the American people.
    But those who live in US know how disconnected Americans are from these events.
    MSM is careful to hide the war crimes or explain them away.
    And the average Joe and Jane are disinclined to look too deep into the abyss.
    So life goes on here in US, and suffering caused by these monsters goes on far, far away from Middle Street, Anytown, USA.

    • Replies:
  26. Good sentiment: but how to do it ?
    Who is going to do it ?

    Two words: people power.

    Remember the neocons with their colour revolutions? Well, the US is overdue for its own colour revolution. As a tribute to the neocon’s Trotskyist roots, we should dub it the “pink revolution.”

    In that spirit, I invite you to join the Pink Revolution scheduled for the summer of 2020 in DC, A Declaration of Independence from Israel.

    Here are the people who have already expressed their commitment to attend:

    geokat62
    SolontoCroesus
    Alexander
    RobinG

  27. AmericanaCON [AKA "BernieBarker"]
    says:
         Show CommentNext New Comment

    The problem with Rehmat is that his hatred for Jews destroys his sometimes very good points about Israel and Jewish identity politics. You see this Anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, racists (including towards whites), Anti-Christian, Xenophobic madness in all marginalized organizations, groups and networks in all political, ideological and religious stripes. I don’t like to use concepts like “extremism” but it can be applied on certain events through history. Nazi-Germany (1933-1945), Soviet Union (until 1950s) and Khmer Rouge (1975-1979), ISIS (1999-present) all went too far resulting in millions of deaths.

    The reasons why we have these occurring genocides is because of our elites in all civilizations force people into a corner and then breed radicalism. The Western world is going through this right now. Europeans in Europe and the Diaspora in United States, Australia, New Zeeland and South Africa have been pushed into a corner and this is why we see a rise in ethno-nationalism and racism. We can only hope that the reformists are able to replace our current elites and force a change in policy before it boils over into nationalism. What Rehmat (and other Muslims) don’t understand is that white people as they become radicalized will not take lightly on Muslim migrants regardless if they are good or bad. The problem with Muslim organizations like CAIR and Muslims in United States is that they don’t seem to understand the history of their adopted country.

    United States was founded by white Anglo-Protestants. It was founded as white European country which only granted citizenship to whites. Although, United States did grant citizenship to non-whites it was something fairly rare. Immigration was also kept to a minimum until after the civil war. In the 1950 about 90 percent of the population were white (almost exclusively non-Hispanic and a large extent West and Northern European), 75% were Protestants and about 93 percent were Christians. When CAIR argue for open borders, multiculturalism and that United States ought to house their needs the majority of white Americans perceive them as a threat to their identity. CAIR may be legally correct. United States has not been an ethnocracy since 1965 but in the mind of white Americans it is.

    In Europe you see even more hostility towards non-white or/and non-Christian migrants (and minorities) as many European states were born as ethno-states or unions of ethno-states such as United Kingdom. What Rehmat (so common among Muslims) does not realize is the dynamics of ethnic relations. White Christians have in general not a problem with individuals Muslims. However, they do not want to become a minority in what they perceive as their “land”. White Christians show hostility towards Muslims as a group and non as individuals. Hence, whites Christians don’t care if they are law-abiding good citizens. They don’t care if they contribute financially to Western countries.

    Whites perceive them as threat because of what they are not what they do. All ethnic, racial and religious groups tend to act like this. Morally wrong? Well, I personally think so but that is sadly how the cookie crumbles. Rehmat may dislike or even hate Jews but what he should understand that the hatred is probably mutual and he will find very few whites who want to create an alliance with him. The growing nationalism in the West is not caused by Jews but by visible minorities such as Muslims – all of whom are first, second or maybe third generation migrants from third world countries. What Rehmat should spend is time doing is to create understanding among peoples and respect for the differences. He should engage in a dialog and not hate speech against Jews or any other group. The same goes for Christians, Jews, Hindus, Whites, Asian and Blacks. It applies for all people.

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  28. Neyth Moshe – You’re confusing al-Sisi with Barack Obama who is the most hated US president in Israel, even worse than Jimmy Carter.

    In 2009, American Jewish writer and blogger, Max Blumenthal, visited the Zionist entity after Barack Obama’s so-called “historic speech” in Cairo in which he blasted Palestinian groups which carry armed resistance against the Zionist regime. Max was surprised by the Jewish hatred toward Barack Obama. He documented it in a video, Feeling the Hate in Israel, which was later removed from U-Tube and Huffington Post……

    http://rehmat1.com/2013/02/09/israeli-jews-hate-black-people/

  29. Yup, it tells us that the West should stop fucking around in their countries.

    Care to name two that haven’t been fucked over by the colonial powers in the pasr 100 years or so?

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  30. So? I see you can read the words in English but…..

  31. I’m sorry to use your comment for something oblique or peripheral but I was struggling to remember what it was that I meant to throw up for discussion when it hit me while I was reading your comment.

    What makes people commit acts of enmity (violent or otherwise) against their host communities, sometimes their home community? Can one generalise so as to bring the Cambridge 5 within the explanatory web?

    I think the idea of including them in an explanation occurred to me when reading someone’s point that most of the terrorists have not been the down trodden or poor but often educated professional or about to be professional people, quite often educated in the West. So, what is it that makes people resent something (or almost everything) about their lives so as to turn them into destroyers of the best of bourgeois civilisation? Clearly in the 30s the idea that the whole of humanity, starting with their compatriots, were going to be lifted under capitalism to much longer healthier lives, more or less free education etc. was not obvious and it could even have been residues of Christian altruism that formed part of the Cambridge Five’s psychological formation. No doubt there are elements of Islam which, in a distorted form, turn potential altruism into vengeful destructiveness.????

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  32. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to make distinctions between colonialism (planting of colonies of the outsiders) and imperialism? The Indian Empire was never a colony. Only in the loosest sense could one refer to the English/British colonies there (typically perhaps in hill stations where English customs were preserved for those seeking refuge from the heat of the dry season). India, if one was brutally frank, has been most fucked up by modern Western medicine, hygiene and whatever else has contributed to its population soaring ahead of its coping mechanisms. Same one might say of Africa. But, those unacceptable thoughts aside, India has probably survived very well on its native talent, despite the inbuilt disadvantages of caste and doses of socialism brought back from English education in the 20s and 30s, picking up what it got from the most modern humane empire there had ever been – which isn’t saying much but is I suggest reality and dependent of course on the UK having got itself well up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs thanks to leading the Industrial Revolution and therefore post Malthusian prosperity.

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  33. India, if one was brutally frank, has been most f*cked up by…

    Woah, Wiz. I had to reread that sentence a few times to make sure I didn’t misread it.

    Nice to see you let your hair down a bit… but try not making a habit of it, or I’ll have to rechristen you the Wizard of Expletives, or WoE.

  34. What went so disastrously wrong?

    They’re Arabs. What more do you need to know?

  35. so per a good chunk of the comments here, the Arab Spring morphed to winter real quick cuz of the Jews, jews, jews. couple years ago I predicted it would do what it did. Why? cuz I know what IQ means.

    You guys are pretty nutty. The Arabs are so stupid and violent that jews or not, Americans or not, it is just Arabness, Orientalism, Blackness like our negroes.

    Same IQ of Arabs and US Blacks: 85. Black chaos, Arab chaos…all genetic.

    You guys are still liberals (i.e. those who think it is all Cultural). It is not. It is 90% IQ, and 10 % temperment. I have known quite a few Arabs and a couple Persians. Then there is Rehmet, the Robot.
    Joe Webb

  36. I am happy to be subject to language policing in what some of my more polemical partisan friends call the Nanny state but excuse myself this time by reference to the unbowdlerised word having been used by the person to whom I was replying. If I had, accordingly, used quotation marks – or even the more pointed “sic” – it might have looked a trifle precious, n’est-ce pas?

  37. says:
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    I wrote there has never been a single Arab democracy or free state in all of history. I guess for you history is only the last 100 years. Where was the Arab Magna Carta for example?

    Btw, Arabs have been F******* around in western countries for centuries. Spain & Portugal was conquered and enslaved by them for 700 years. Perhaps as many as 2,000,000 Europeans were enslaved by the Barbary pirates.

  38. n’est-ce pas?

    c’est.

  39. AmericanaCON [AKA "BernieBarker"]
    says:
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    The Conservative Revolutionary Movement of the 1920-1930 was driven by ideology rather than social necessity. They recruited from the upper strata in society and often people who had not been hurt by the post-war poverty. This made them different from the NSDAP which was created as a mass-movement rather than a movement for elites. When NSDAP came to power in 1933 they dissolved the Conservative Revolutionary Movement. ISIS works as the Conservative Revolutionary Movement and is heavily depended on young educated Muslims willing to die for a higher cause. This makes ISIS different from Hamas which works as a mass-movement. As ISIS offers little for the poor they have also little support among the general population. Hamas have massive support among Palestinians because they work with charities to those in need. From a policy perspective I think the West is between the rock and a hard place on ISIS.

    The ideology of Hamas is simple. It is an ideology based on something very substantial. It is a reaction of Western intervention in the region. If Israel was dissolved and the Western world took a step back organizations like Hamas would not follow us over the Mediterranean. This goes for most of the Muslim terrorist organizations around the world. They just want us out from their lands. However, ISIS is something different. They strive to re-conquer all land once held by Muslims which would include the entire Balkans and Spain but also Central Asia, Southern Asia and a significant part of Africa. We cannot destroy ISIS with conventional methods because their ideology is imbedded religious, cultural, ethnic and social identity of Muslims. If we get rid of ISIS there will come a new group with similar believes. This is really nothing strange. All peoples tend to have extreme tendencies. Racialist supremacism is very much embedded in the German identity.

    The winning side of WW2 thought that when they got rid of Nazism they got rid of German racialist supremacism. Of course they didn’t. It has just been suppressed for 70 years. It is about to stir up in Germany as more and more Germans feel their identity is under threat by third world massive immigration. The Nordic people tend to have tendency for isolationism just like the English tend to have tendency for expansionism. The problem with the liberal post-civilization we live in is that we don’t acknowledge the differences between people and work to retain our urges for extremism through good governance and sound political decisions. Our elites in all civilizations constantly make decisions which push people into a corner and reawake their aggressive primordial behavior. It is so sad.

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  40. Thanks for a serious response. I am not quite sure what to make of your generalisations about elites. Working backwards from your conclusions I think one has to find people at the apex of one or more pyramids who have created conditions in which disgruntled young educated people end up doing things like flying planes into NYC and DC buildings or shooting up pop concerts. I can see a bit of the explanation in the elite Saudi Royal family being resented but too tightly in control to be attacked. I don’t see the elite intelligentsia fiiting your description. The Wall Street elites which contributed so much to the 2008 et seq disaster have largely kept America’s multi ethnic middle and working classes from improving their economic welfare to any great extent over the last 30 years but don’t seem to have done much to provoke violence amongst the young and educated if the ephemeral efforts of the Occupy Wall Street protestors are anything to go by.

    BTW I am not sure that you were right to include Australia amd New Zealand in the group of countries where you see people pushed into a corner with a consequential in ethnocentrism and racism. It is true that in the late 90s a disendorsed Liberal (very roughly = UK Conservative) candidate pursued her unacceptable anti-Asian line and even started a party in Queensland (our deep North) which got a few members elected to the Queensland state parliament before falling apart. But prosperity (no recession for 25 years) and the relative quality of immigrants from China, SE Asia and India (and the Chinese money in real estate) has contributed to quite high support for immigration.

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  41. The common element in all these items? The people of the narrative? Muslims. Low IQ, violent, psychopathic, ignorant, violent, raping, violent, did I mention violent? Ah yes, I suppose I did. Worst of all, their religious comic-book-of-choice is the Koran. Lovely, just lovely. But don’t blame the savages, blame the victims and managers of the savages, that’s the liberal way. But that’s the wrong way. Deal with savages the way we dealt with Japan, with Germany. Problem solved, but we don’t solve problems anymore, not like we used to.

    Everything that has happened is the world attempting to deal with and manage the ignorant, low-IQ, violent and worthless savages. Don’t blame Truman-Obama. They have all attempted to deal, simply, with ignorant savages sitting on a resource the civilized world must have. The mistake that has been made is allowing these savages a say in anything. That’s all, that’s it, I’m right, you’re wrong if you see it any other way..

  42. says:
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    All because of the evil$cum imperialists. The blood of millions are on them, and all who support them (yes, all those adoring faces at trump, hillary, etc., meetings).

    Their just comeuppance will be so horrifying… unimaginably so.

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  43. I find it amazing that anyone could pretend to be stupid enough to imagine that the destruction of Iraq – after it had expelled the Amerikastani occupation in 2011 – and the destruction of Syria, the zionazi pseudostate’s only remaining opponent, was *not* what was intended by Warshington.

  44. Curious? Hopeful? When Tunisia was having it’s “Arab Spring” yes, I was a little curious because I didn’t know a darn thing about the political situation in Tunisia. It went south pretty quickly –now one never hears a thing about Tunisia. Once Egypt was affected with the Muslim Brotherhood getting an itch for actual power and the fall of Hosni Mubarak, I knew that it was covert American action in play. Yes the Arab Spring quickly went backwards into an Arab Winter –.

  45. Is Israel responsible for all that? Even if there was some truth in your blame why not blame the corrupted.

    oh I do blame the corrupted, wholeheartedly. Absolutely and you’re right, they are far more rotten than the corruptors to be sure.

    But at the heart of the problem is the fraud that is the Fed that gives a small group of men unlimited power to corrupt the all too easily corrupted. And since they’re so easitly corrupted, it means wars and atrocities and human suffering on unimaginable scales. And even tho humans are flawed, I feel that when a few of them wield near total power over the masses, like Caligula’s reign for instance, or the suffering in Gaza or Syria or Libya, and indeed so many other places where the suffering is contrived for the amusement and profits of a few, that these are some of the darkest chapters in human history. And it doesn’t have to be like that if we humans could muster our better angels and kill the Fed. And free humanity from the caprice and absolute power of the absolutely corrupted. That’s all. ; )

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  46. Stable democracy?
    Turkey?

    Have a listen to the great Sibel Edmonds. Here:

    https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1120-sibel-edmonds-explains-the-erdogan-takedown/

    The Erdogan replacement lives five miles down the road from me. The local Gulen is not the usually nationally reported one.

  47. says:
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    “unacceptable anti-Asian line”

    WHY is it “unacceptable” for a white person to not desire Asian immigration?

    “quite high support for immigration”.

    I seriously doubt that. More likely political correctness, cultural Marxism, fear of being called a “bigot” (our era’s hysteria) and a collective agreed upon silence by the major parties, media and academia make it difficult if not impossible to speak out against the displacement.

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  48. I wonder if you are not generalising from American or European experience. I might well share your views about the immigration that the US and Europe have had inflicted on them partly by PC and by interest in cheap labor.

    I should have said “crude and ill-informed” perhaps instead of “unacceptable” which smacks prudishness. Pauline Hansen did find quite a lot of acceptance – even being elected as an independant at the election for which she lost her Liberal Party endorsement.

    The only plausible labor backed case against immigration has been some selective complaints about the overuse of the 457 [number is from memory] visa to bring in skilled workers when Australians are unavailable. I don’t think those visas lead to permanent residence.

    Generally the large scale Chinese investment in real estate has caused some grumbling about raising the price to new home owners but that seems to be generally understood to be overstated because it is hard for foreigners to buy existing houses and apartments, so the invest in new ones.

    As the numbers of Asians are distributed well beyond the ethnic Chinese in Australia’s immigration intake and they are not cheap labor or in large numbers there is no reason for native white Australians to fear “displacement”. There is simply nothing equivalent to the 13 per cent of relatively poor and uneducated Latinos (?plus illegals) – and no pre-existing complication from a similar proportion of descendants of black slaves. So Australia has had a good experience of post WW2 immigration, most not from the British Isles, which has led to more than a trebling of the population in less than 70 years.

  49. Fed is a very young institution and the problems you are blaming them for have been around as long as mankind. In other words Fed is not at the heart of the problem. At heart of the problem are human deficiencies like greed and lust for power in those who oppress, cowardice, lack of compassion, conformity and duplicity in the oppressed and religious delusions in all.

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  50. anon, maybe your comment is irony, but if not, you are a world burner. Joe Webb

  51. Fed is a very young institution and the problems you are blaming them for have been around as long as mankind.

    true, but those problems were more equally distributed in the past. The sea change in 1913 was when a handful of the world’s greediest men were handed the keys to the United States Treasury. It gave them the ability to wreak havoc with America’s and then the world’s economies. By expanding and then treacherously and calculatingly contracting the money supply, they were/are able to destroy fortunes and entire economies, and then buy up the assets at pennies on the dollar. Making Rothschild and his minions stratospherically wealthy, and hence powerful, and thereby able to buy up all the media and all the institutions of consequence and then put them all to work to hide what they’re doing. All the while with dancing puppets at the ends of their strings waging wars and destroying countries all intended to make them even richer and as always, more powerful.

    You’re right about human nature, but so was that person who said power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Orwell understood it too. All too well.

    Human nature is human nature, and there’s not much we can do about that except listen to our better angels as individuals. But we must take away the power to create trillions of dollars from a small cabal of men who will always use that power to engorge on the planet and its people to get even more power, because the end game to this particular charade in human tragedies will not be pretty, that much I can assure you.

  52. how many coups per decade are allowed to be classified as “stable democracy”

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  53. says:
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    The result we see is the result that was wanted, in the main. It is in the s0-called national interest of the United States to have a destabilized Middle East.

  54. I had to look it up but Wikipaedia states the last coup was in 1980 which would verify my claim that ‘ Turkey had been a stable democracy for decades’ . Not much by American or British standards but about as it good as it gets in that part of the world though I am concerned at the direction Erdogan is taking that country.

  55. I don’t know, I dislike the Wikipedia for various reasons, but Rehmat’s assertion that it was founded by an Israel army colonel, unless Sanger was, for sure Whales never was, and I don’t think Sanger ever was.

    I tried to reply to Rehmat’s nonsensical post, but the current browser does not work well with many sites, must start using Firefox from my ‘smart’ phone.

  56. Rehmat, do you have evidence that Sanger was a colonel in the Israeli army? I am sure that Whales was not.

    You did not even bother addressing my original question, ‘Do you have any reason to call Cockbourne hasbara’, but just spout a pile of bullshit

  57. geokat62, I disagree with Obama and Sanders the US has any claims, rights or credible reasons to be a player in the ME. ISIS is just the latest excuse to wade into that region and lay claims- I have yet to hear a convincing rationale for declaring ISIS a US enemy and for boots on the ground or covert sandals to defeat any sect or tribe in the ME. Further, Israel and the Saudis should be cut off rather than supported by the US, or sold US arms. Do you disagree, and if so why? Please if possible include cites and links for support. I’m hoping to learn more.

  58. I try as well as I can to reply here. Right now, to sleep, perchance to dream.

    Regards Rehmat, but you do spout an aweful load of bullshit.

    Sure that you are nnt a specimen of Hazbara?

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