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Leaving the EU Has Already Left Britain Crippled for Good
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Future historians will look back at Britain in the age of Brexit and seek to explain why its people reduced their power and influence in the world in the belief that they were doing the exact opposite.

But historians will have to move quickly if they are to have a say because the most important consequences of Brexit are already with us. People do not see this because UK membership of the EU is wrongly discussed as an economic issue when it is primarily a political one.

This is a traditional mistake by the British who have been making it with varying degrees of intensity ever since the French politician Robert Schumann put forward his plan for the French-German Coal and Steel Community on 9 May 1950 – a pact that eventually turned into the EU. Enhancing the political power of European states, particularly France and Germany, was always the chief objective.

The misperception has meant that the outcome of the Brexit crisis is talked about with alarm or enthusiasm, depending on the views of the speaker, but generally on the supposition on all sides that this is something good or bad that lies in the future. There is ceaseless discussion about custom unions and single markets which masks the devastating loss of UK power and influence that has already occurred in three crucial areas.

There is greater political division in Britain than at any time since the 17th century and this is not going to go away. Even if parliament is finally forced to swallow Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement at least half the population is going to feel that they have been betrayed or, at best, are the victims of an act of self-destructive idiocy. Theresa May has systematically made these divisions deeper by pretending that there was national unanimity about the referendum decision.

Secondly, the UK as a state is more divided than it has been since the Scottish Act of Union in 1707. Scottish nationalists and Irish nationalists in Northern Ireland – half the population – are strengthened because Scottish independence and Irish unity can be presented as a jump into the future with the EU rather than staying put with a regressive and xenophobic England. Through resurrecting Irish partition as an issue, Britain will be permanently at odds with the Irish government, something which might not have mattered much in the past, but does now when Ireland is empowered by the rest of the EU. Angela Merkel was in Dublin this week telling Leo Varadkar that Germany would “stand by Ireland” and earlier the Irish taoiseach was seeing Emmanuel Macron in Paris. This used not to happen.

The third area in which the balance of power has swung against the UK over the last three years is that, as Britain becomes more divided, the EU becomes more unified. This was not inevitable: remember how there was talk in 2016 of the EU shedding more members and possibly even breaking up. Having seen what is happening to Britain, dissident members of the EU are these days keeping secessionist thoughts very much to themselves.

Evidence of the swing in the balance of power away from Britain has become more apparent over the course of the Brexit negotiations. Retreat on one side and advance on the other was the inevitable consequence of Brussels having much the strongest hand of cards. Nothing is more absurd, and a sign of a frightening detachment from reality, than the claim of prominent Eurosceptics that Britain would have got what it wanted in negotiations if only it had been firmer, something it failed to do because the British negotiators were weak-willed, incompetent or treacherously sabotaging their own side.

At one level, the explanation for the crisis gripping Britain is not a mystery: globalisation has produced political crises all over the world which differ in some respects but have certain common themes such as de-industrialisation, increased inequality, immigration, and the alienation of large parts of the population. There are obvious parallels between Trump supporters in Pennsylvania and Leave voters in the Labour strongholds in the Welsh Valleys. The same pressures were long visible in the Middle East where kleptocratic elites clustered around authoritarian rulers and their families, leaving the rest of the population to rot.

But this does not tell us why it is that the political crisis in the UK looks worse than elsewhere in Europe. Unsurprisingly, the historically minded have sought guidance from past precedent and, more particularly, from crises that revolved around the UK’s relations with continental Europe and, equally important, those that threatened the integrity of the UK itself.

Jacob Rees-Mogg caused some hilarity by plunging deep into the Middle Ages for an analogy, pillorying May’s withdrawal agreement as a sell-out by claiming that it was “the greatest vassalage since King John paid homage to Phillip II at Le Goulet in 1200”. Academic historians immediately pounced to call his history wrong, but there was nothing wrong with taking the longer view.

One could even go back a further 800 years and look at Roman Britain’s departure from the empire at the start of the fifth century. The circumstances are murky and ill-recorded, but there is evidence that the Romans did not pull out unilaterally but were encouraged to go by the local inhabitants. According to the sixth century historian Zosimus, quoted in The Anglo-Saxon World by Nicholas J Higham and Martin J Ryan, they were reduced “to such straits that they revolted from the empire, no longer submitted to Roman law, and reverted to their native customs. The Britons, therefore, armed themselves and ran many risks to ensure their own safety and free their own cities from attacking barbarians.”

This early example of Brexit did not end happily, though it would be interesting to imagine some Romano-British version of Liam Fox trotting off to sign trade deals with the Angles, Saxons and Jutes on behalf of “global Britannia”.

ORDER IT NOW

A constituency has always existed in Britain open to the idea that continental entanglements are a costly waste of money and are undertaken with the complicity of simple-minded or corrupt British politicians. Jonathan Swift wrote a devastating pamphlet, The Conduct of the Allies, making such charges three hundred years ago that would not look out of place in Leave campaign literature.

Britain has traditionally tried to avoid having a crisis in relations with continental Europe powers at the same time as a crisis threatening the unity of the UK. But Brexit was guaranteed to produce both simultaneously. Eurosceptics denigrate the EU as a leviathan and then seem shocked when it behaves like one. “Splendid isolation” was a dangerous idea for Britain even when it was at the height of its power at the end of the 19th century and looks like an even worse one today. Even so, Leavers are blithely confident that it does not much matter that Britain is now more isolated in Europe than at any time since the five-year period before Napoleon marched on Moscow in 1812.

The failure of historians to find a convincing parallel between events in Britain’s past and the Brexit crisis may have a simple explanation: never before has the nation embarked on a project likely to make it poorer, weaker and less able to control its own future.

(Republished from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Brexit, Britain, EU 
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  1. anon[199] • Disclaimer says:

    Angela Merkel was in Dublin this week telling Leo Varadkar that Germany would “stand by Ireland”

    funny that, varadkar doesn’t sound lke an Irish name

    • Agree: eah
  2. Saxon says:

    More rootless cosmopolitan navel gazing from an out-of-touch type who doesn’t get it, it seems.

    • Agree: Gordo
  3. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    It matters not whether Britain exists from the EU or not, politicians who want to leave and want to stay have one thing in common. They all believe that Britain needs more non-white immigration to make it into the multi-culti paradise that they have been told will be achieved once the white population is below 50%. These same political clowns choose to ignore the fact that multiculturalism is a failure in every country where it’s practiced and the places that once were a white majority have sunk into third-world status. California is a perfect example of this.

  4. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    Secondly, the UK as a state is more divided than it has been since the Scottish Act of Union in 1707

    better to be overrun by tens of millions of foreigners than “divided”

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  5. Matra says:

    When a Paddy like Cockburn tells you he’s worried – really, really worried – about the UK, it probably means things are going in the right direction.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @republic
  6. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Matra

    i wonder how many shekels cockburn gets for selling out his people

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  7. MBlanc46 says:

    1. Britain has not left the EU. It is far from certain that it ever will leave the EU. 2. It’s not that the attempt to leave the EU has created the political divide in Britain. The political divide in Britain created the attempt by Britain to leave the EU.

    • Agree: byrresheim
  8. MBlanc46 says:
    @anon

    They accidentally omitted th O’.

  9. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website

    Japan isn’t part of EU but does trade with Europe.

    China isn’t part of EU but does trade with Europe.

    Turkey isn’t part of EU but does trade with Europe.

    Saudi Arabia isn’t part of EU but does trade with Europe.

    Israel isn’t part of EU but does trade with Europe.

    Why can’t UK be free of EU and do trade with Europe?

  10. Kranz says:

    lol Britain deserves to lose.
    Their losing started the moment they decided to wage genocidal wars against Germany. And now in a strange Karmic twist Germany is the one who has Cuck Island cornered and cowered. Sure, both countries are on a suicidal trajectory, but I’ve been to both places and let me tell you, Britain is in far worse shape, especially socially, than Germany, or even Sweden for that matter. Germany still has a pulse. Germany still feels communal and cohesive. Britain sure as hell doesn’t.
    There is a very immutable difference between Anglo and Saxon. It’s no coincidence or accident that Anglos chose Hobbes, Locke, individualism, materialism, and consumption as the focal point of life, whereas the Saxon chose Goethe, Nietzsche, collectivism, socialism, and militarism as their spiritual center.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
  11. Harold says:

    Future historians will look back at Britain in the age of Brexit and seek to explain why its people reduced their power and influence in the world in the belief that they were doing the exact opposite.

    They didn’t believe they were doing the opposite, not those that voted to get out. They don’t give a fig about ‘power and influence in the world’ they just want to live their own lives in their own island nation maintaining the sovereignty over it they have had for centuries. Particularly with regard to immigration laws.

    This constant moaning from elites about countries ‘losing power and influence’, as if the ordinary man gives a damn, is as out of touch as the apocryphal ‘let them eat cake’.

    In fact the ordinary man is better off if their country has no power and influence in the world, so it isn’t infested by imperial elites who care nothing for the folk, their history, and their continuance.

    Worrying about ‘power and influence’ is the root of all evil.

    • Agree: Sean, The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  12. anonymous[389] • Disclaimer says:

    “Britain crippled for good” …

    Given Little (current status) Britain’s evil past and present, whatever is being prophesied is not enough… what Little Britain deserves is the label of a “failed state.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/winston-churchill-genocide-dictator-shashi-tharoor-melbourne-writers-festival-a7936141.html

  13. @Kranz

    Very true.

    If, for the first time in half a millenium, their power to wreak havoc on the continent (a.k.a. balance of power) should be curtailed, that would be a Good Thing.

    I will only believe in brexit if I actually see it happen. Until then it seems one further diplomatic ploy, played as hard as they still can, their power to instigate world wars on the continent luckily (for us others and for the british underclass) lost for the time being.

    Speramus oremusque.

    Why a descendant of Irishmen, among the first and foremost victims of british genocidal colonialism, publicly refuses to understand, is a secret Mr. Cockburn might do well to disclose publicly, not the least reason for public disclosure being the thorough private introspection that would be necessary beforehand.

    OT I only hate one thing: autocorrect.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @Philip Owen
  14. Future historians will look back at Britain in the age of Brexit and seek to explain why its people reduced their power and influence in the world in the belief that they were doing the exact opposite.

    It’s amazing how many people apparently know exactly what “future historians” will be concerned with, and even more amazing how these “future historians”, possibly as yet unborn, always agree with those who are putting words in their mouths.

  15. Sean says:

    Britain feared France flanking through Ireland and an alliance of Germany and France. Now those nightmares have come true. When all is said and done though, Britain was never likely to be a beneficiary of the EU. It is not Lotharingia

    For all the supposed convergence, everyone from the East European countries seemed to be converging on Britain, and holding wages down with no end in sight. If the people of the Republic want it to stay in the EU, that is their business.

    About Scotland Patrick Cockburn is conflating the results of two referendums that had very different premises. It’s unknown if those Scots voting against Brexit were in favour of staying in the EU if England left, but there are reasons to be dubious of such a proposition. The SNP position is independence for Scotland within the EU, which was an implicit reference to England being in the EU along with an independent Scotland. There was a majority in the Scottish independence referendum (years before the UK Brexit one) against independence for Scotland even when it was the much more inviting prospect of being an independent country yet still in the same EU customs union as the rest of Britain. Leaving the UK to become a North of Britain outpost of the EU would result in Scotland being throttled.

  16. Britain never belonged in the EU at first place It’s not coincidence that De Gaulle vetoed Britain entry twice ,he knew that Britain will be US fifth column in Europe .

    • Replies: @Other Side
  17. @Other Side

    Btw i don’t know who’m did i trigger so bad so that my comments have to be moderated before publishing but you just show that you are not so different from screeching left in their pursuit of safe spaces.Since my comments are not welcome on this site,i will no longer visit here .

  18. Sean says:

    The failure of historians to find a convincing parallel between events in Britain’s past and the Brexit crisis may have a simple explanation: never before has the nation embarked on a project likely to make it poorer, weaker and less able to control its own future.

    Brendan Simms said in his book Europe: The Struggle for Supremacy, 1453 to the Present that European unity always came in response to various threats. As Britain comes under pressure it tighten up, not fall apart.

  19. Tom Verso says:

    “UK membership of the EU is wrongly discussed as an economic issue when it is primarily a political one.”

    Is there really a difference between politics and economics? There use to be a variation on Marxism call political economy wherein the political and the economic were seen as variations on the theme of the dominate economic class controls the politics of governance.

    “Theresa May has systematically made these divisions by pretending that there was national unanimity about the referendum decision.”

    Surely she is not alone in perpetuating this illusion. Most prominently Nigel Farage and more generally numerous publications and web sites trumpet the “Will of the People”. Of course Nigel et al never say the Will of 52 % of the People. Seemingly, the 48 % who voted against Brexit to include the majority of N. Ireland and the whole of Scotland are not The People.

    “…the political crisis in the UK looks worse than elsewhere in Europe.”

    Surly it does not look worse than the political crisis in France i.e. ‘Yellow Vests’?

    “… never before has the nation embarked on a project likely to make it poorer, weaker and less able to control its own future.”

    But, never before has there be a phenomena we call ‘Globalization’. That is precisely the goal of Globalization i.e. to weaken if not destroy national identity.

    • Replies: @Christian Moon
  20. You begin your piece by stating quote:
    “Future historians will look back at Britain in the age of Brexit and seek to explain why its people reduced their power and influence in the world in the belief that they were doing the exact opposite.”

    I was one that voted for Brexit and would like to inform you that you are clueless. The last thing we wanted to do was to increase our Power and influence in the World.Honestly your ignorance is astounding and an insult.

  21. @Priss Factor

    Turkey is in a customs union with the EU.

    The big concerns for Britain’s trade with Europe are:

    • The City of London depends upon Eurozone passporting arrangements
    • The EU has a 10% tariff on motor vehicle imports, and Britain exports many motor vehicles to the Continent

    The EU for its part is determined to enforce free migration, which is a sticking point for the British. The EU is perfectly comfortable leveraging the pressure points on the British economy to enforce its migration requirements.

    Then there’s the need to make an example of Britain in order to prevent other states from leaving the EU. If the benefits of the EU can be got without being in the EU, then the whole empire could collapse.

    • Replies: @Sean
  22. @byrresheim

    Is Cockburn actually of Irish descent?

    I know his forename is Patrick and he grew up in Ireland, but the Cockburn family is from Britain. The surname itself originates in eastern Scotland.

    I get the impression that the Cockburns originate in the strain of intellectual left-wing British traitors that emerged from dissenting Protestants and various “reform” movements.

    If he is of Irish descent it would explain why he’s always going to bat for papist potato monsters and professing love of Britain’s defeatist policy of neutrality between patriots and separatists in Ulster.

    Left-wing British traitors also sympathize with papist potato monsters, but they’re not obsessed by it the way Cockburn is. But then perhaps growing up in Ireland (why did his father settle there anyway?) explains it.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  23. @anon

    He’s not selling out his people. He’s Irish.

    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  24. @Other Side

    I’m sure we’ll survive the loss,

  25. You write that England is ‘regressive and xenophobic’. You also write that, by voting for Brexit, her people will reduce ‘their power and influence in the world’. If the English are regressive and xenophobic, anything which reduces their power and influence must surely be welcomed. Why, then, do you oppose Brexit?

    • Replies: @Ivan
  26. @Thorfinnsson

    Claud Cockburn, father of Patrick, was an English Left Wing journalist. He had some Scots ancestry. He was accused by George Orwell of being a Communist agent, which may well be true.
    He went to live in the Republic of Ireland after the War. He was married 3 times, Patrick being the product of the third marriage.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claud_Cockburn

    Patrick’s mother – Patricia! – was of Irish Protestant gentry. Patrick was brought up in Ireland and his Wikipedia entry describes him as being an Irish Journalist. Rather amusingly, he has won the Orwell Prize. I’m sure George Orwell would have seen the irony.

  27. Gordo says:

    Worst writer on Unz, worse than the fake moon landing guy.

  28. Sean says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    The French and Germans would have come for The City of London (regulation of leveraging) . That was the thing that Cameron got big concessions for the City (Boris Johnson’s constituency) at the final negotiation. Poland refused to concede much on Poles in Britain claiming British welfare benefits for their children back in Poland. There were zero concessions on freedom of movement.

  29. Sean says:
    @Priss Factor

    Because a customs union’s bringing down of barriers between members is a way of putting up barriers to those outside it.

  30. @Priss Factor

    The UK can trade with Europe after Brexit but it will be a lot more complicated and expensive just as it is for the countries you have listed. Japan and Turkey being partial exceptions.

    Fro example, according to HM Revenue and Customs, 238,000 small firms in the UK “export2 to Europe. Just now, that means a different line on their tax return. After Brexit they will have to fill in a SAD 41 and assist their logistics firms to create Bills of Lading.

    Then there are the regulations the EU has written to be favourable to British technolgy in aerospace, mobile phones, pharmaceuticals and financial services not coincidentally our strongest exports. US firms do not get such support.

    About £200 Bn of the UK GDP results from these advantages. That is about £80 Bn a year in extra tax revenue. 10x our payments to the EU.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  31. @Harold

    Basically, the old want to end currency decimalization and the use of the metric system. Very little else has impacted them except positively. They are not minded to credit teh EU for positives such as Free Movement. Their friends spend half the winter in Spain. In 20 years time they won’t matter. The damage will however have been done.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  32. @byrresheim

    Wales had the priviledge of being England’s first colony. Strongbow and his fellow Lords are generally described as Cambro-Norman. Cambria being a Latin name for Wales.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  33. Mr. Cuckburn gives us the usual Zio-Globalist lecture. In other news, some people still want to preserve their families, their culture, and their native society.

  34. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:

    Leaving the EU Has Already Left Britain Crippled for Good

    such a shame, now who will pay for all the “migrants”?

  35. @Philip Owen

    Wales is an integral part of the entity called England and Wales. Prior to the Plantaganet takeover there were a number of Welsh statelets, never a single entity.
    England’s first colony was England itself. Otherwise, they would still be in Frisia, Saxony and Denmark.

  36. Mairead says:

    NATO (Again?)Gibraltar: The Real Reason for Brexit Finally Revealed

    ”the US has to bypass the EU to retain military control of Gibraltar via an ally. Brexit achieves this, provided the UK can be brought on board.”

    ”Gibraltar has gained a new military dimension thanks to US actions in Libya, Syria, Egypt and other countries with a Mediterranean coastline. The US, and particularly the Trump White House which has always supported Brexit, doesn’t want those pussies in Europe remaining in charge of it.”

    ”The biggest obstacle to creating a European Defence Force is the reasonable unwillingness of national parliaments to abandon their sovereignty over the troops they are sending to their deaths.”

    ”The US doesn’t have that problem. It doesn’t even have local control in practice – while presidents and congressmen come and go, the US military-industrial complex remains, with most of its senior personnel serving longer at their levels than any politician.”

    ”If the EU can no longer be trusted to be right-thinking, or agree to support the unilateral actions of unaccountable US military or intelligence brass, the US has to have Gibraltar to keep the naval supply route going. It can’t do that if the UK, which owns it at the express request of the natives, is part of the EU.”

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/gibraltar-the-real-reason-for-brexit-finally-revealed/5632486

  37. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website
    @Philip Owen

    Here’s the thing. UK is one of the three major European economies along with Germany and France.
    Even if UK leaves, the EU will have to find ways to do business with it.

    Just leave, and there will be a way.

    • Replies: @Edward
  38. NYMOM says:

    I think England lost it’s status as a world power after the Second World War. It was a misguided attempt to continue that status which led to the present day situation. Attempting to retain the so-called Empire led to England allowing this massive immigration which is slowly but surely turning it into a 3rd world country…

    England’s only way to save itself is to cut loose this whole idea of Empire or Commonwealth and try to return it’s alien occcupants back to their countries of origin…I don’t even know if that is possible now without military action but the glimmer of hope I see is the way they handled the Shamina Begum situation…anyone with dual citizenship can be liable to get the boot at anytime for criminal and/or seditious activities against England and I think many of those aliens kept a second citizenship…and God knows many of them are criminals and traitors to England…

    So let’s see there might be some hope for England yet!

    • Replies: @anon
  39. anon[227] • Disclaimer says:
    @NYMOM

    Attempting to retain the so-called Empire led to England allowing this massive immigration….

    i don’t believe that

    jews seem to have been behind it – maybe they wanted cheap labor or maybe they wanted to pollute the UK with multi-culti garbage so they could feel safer in someone else’s country

  40. EldnahYm says:
    @Bill Jones

    In previous articles Cockburn was gloating about how Protestants will soon be irrelevant in Northern Ireland as they will be outbred. His Irish background comes from his mother who was Protestant. He’s a traitor to his own people, just like his commie father was.

    • Replies: @Seamusmocnahoople
  41. @anon

    He’s from Slough , a British indian

  42. @EldnahYm

    Britains partition of Ireland is coming back to haunt them hahaha, Ireland will bankrupt Britain hahaha , the Germans and Americans must be laughing their asses off. The Americans will force the British to sell the family silver to save them from bankruptcy just like they forced the British to hand over its wealth to save them from the Germans in ww2 . the British will be an American colonial outpost hahaha and Ireland will be united…. What’s not to like hahaha

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  43. kali says:

    Because of the governments failure to honour the democratically expressed will of the people AND the Rule of Law AND parliamentry sovereignty (one of the aspects of the bastardised, ad hoc ‘constitution’ the establishment claims for its legitimacy) AND the Sovereignty of the queen (wjo gave royal ascent to the brexit bill(s)) Britain now faces a [b]Contitutional Crisis![/b]

    A fact which is being roundly ignored by establishment hacks across the board, who, rather than fulfill their roll as the fourth estate and actually keep the electorate informed, prefer to denegrate the choices we make when those choices don’s suit the establishment goals of their paymasters.

    Here’s a news flash for you and all of your establishment collegues Paddy: The British people don’t give a shit about ‘power and influence’ in a globalist economy. What we care about is reigning in the hegemonic controle of the neo-liberal globalists who are destroying all that is most beautiful in life and on this planet!

    We care about all those thousands of acres of farmland lying unfarmed! We care about the 3.5 MILLION British children now living in absolute poverty, the millions dependent on foodbanks to feed their families. And we care about our homeless brothers and sisters dying on our streets whilst tens of thousands of houses sit empty!

    Power centralised in Europe is power over which we have no leverage and power we cannot wrest back. We NEED (especially before the full force of the Lisbon Treaty desends like a jackboot!) to bring power back to the island, where we stand at least a small chance of bringing it into line with the asperations of the people. – Regardless of the fear, confussion and downright insults being propagated by ‘journalists’ like you.

    But so much for Brexit. It was a mindfuck from the start and many of us knew it.

    Now we have a Constitutional Crisis on our hands… and not a single word is being said about it in any part of the Establishment Media!
    The depth and scope of this crisis may well have global ramifications if only the people had half a clue of its existance! (Much like the gillet jaune protests in France which also, thanks to government D notices, go unreported for fear they may serve as inspiration to all disengrsnchised and denigrated peoples across Europe and beyond.)

    Spring IS coming though, Paddy. Be under no illusion; the people have had enough! But it’s up to the likes of you what form that spring comes in.
    Properly informed people make better choices. Confused people create chaos. Now, I know, and you know, that chaos is what (((they))) want. The question is, is it what you want?

    Love, peace and freedom (which is full personal responsibility) for all who love peace and freedom.

    Kali.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @Philip Owen
  44. republic says:
    @Matra

    When a Paddy like Cockburn tells you he’s worried

    I think that he is Anglo-Irish

  45. NYMOM says:

    “jews seem to be behind it”…

    Not to be rude but that seems to be a meme with you or something…Jews are not behind everything, somethings yes, but not everything…

    No one group or person or thing is behind ‘everything’…

    Many things just happen because no one can see into the future and know beforehand how a policy or decision will turn out…and it is my opinion that England’s half-assed attempt to hold onto the Empire (thru this Queen as the head of the Commonwealth thing) let to their current immigration mess…

    Just my opinion.

  46. @Seamusmocnahoople

    The Irish partitioned Ireland, not the British. The island was united before 1921.

    While I can see it must be tempting to have a good chuckle, England’s difficulty being Ireland’s opportunity etc etc, I think Ireland will go bust before the UK does.

    It’s sad to see Ireland, which with all its faults had and still has its own unique culture and people, going down the same road as the UK – only twice as fast, and with the middle classes telling each other how cool and enlightened modern Ireland is. Seems odd to spend so long scrapping with the Brits and defending Holy Church only to turn into a Godless multicultural mess just like the UK but with worse beer.

    • Replies: @Seamusmocnahoople
  47. @Philip Owen

    ” They are not minded to credit the EU for positives such as Free Movement.”

    It was positive up til 2005, when Blair’s UK and Ireland were the only EU countries to allow unrestricted immigration from the A8 accession countries. Before that, people weren’t moving en masse from Tuscany or the Dordogne to the UK.

    Since then it’s been unremittingly negative, for wages, housing and quality of life. Blair and Merkel are the architects of Brexit.

    Real (inflation adjusted) male median wages in the UK are now lower than they were in 1997, 22 years ago – and housing costs have soared, driven by the influx which has simultaneously depressed wages.

    IT IS NOT A POSITIVE.

    Which neck of Wales do you know? Oxford Street in Swansea has gone from a clean, bustling shopping area to a depressing, run-down Balkan slum.

    • Replies: @eah
    , @Philip Owen
  48. eah says:

    …its people reduced their power and influence in the world in the belief that they were doing the exact opposite.

    Actually I think they wanted to hang the Paki child rapists as well as the people who let the Paki child rapists get away with it for so long but couldn’t so in a bit of anger and perhaps some confusion they did the next best thing and voted for Brexit instead.

  49. peterAUS says:
    @kali

    Good comment.

    As for

    Now, I know, and you know, that chaos is what (((they))) want. The question is, is it what you want?

    Sometimes chaos is necessary to create an opportunity for a proper change.

    So far everyone not happy with the paradigm still wants to believe that it can be changed, for the better, easily. Think, decide, VOTE and that’s it.
    If, or better, when, everyone realizes that’s not how it can be done chaos is the next logical step.

    Not saying it will happen. It could.

    There is also an option of “multicultural globo-home paradise”, ruled by 1 %.
    Or M.A.D.

  50. eah says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Oxford Street in Swansea has gone from a clean, bustling shopping area to a depressing, run-down Balkan slum.

    Saw this review on TripAdvisor:

    It pains me to say this but now it just looks like anywheretown…

    This is obvious to any honest person: ‘diversity’ as understood today, ie the presence of sundry non-whites, or non-natives, destroys actual diversity — go to almost any major city in Europe today and you will find large ghettos inhabited by migrants — these ghettos look and feel the same in innumerable other European cities — most of the natives, who gave the area a unique, national, ethnic, European character — German, French, Belgian, Welsh, etc — have left.

  51. @YetAnotherAnon

    I don’t drink so crap beer or not doesn’t bother me. Ireland has being in worse situations , Britain brought all this shit on itself. When Ireland is united we will just hit the reset button , We don’t have any illusions of grandeur, hark back on empires or shit . We will gladly trade and work with anybody but on an equell footing. Britains idea of a relationship with Ireland is Croppy lie down, I’m afraid those days are over. Multiculturalism,transgenderism…… It’s seems to spring up from anglocentric cultures. The so called holy church served its purpose of stopping the Irish people being assimilated as British, it’s just another middle eastern religion at the end of the day. Irish partioned Ireland hahaha….even today as in Yemen the British act like we din do duffin gov. History is being rectified.

  52. kali says:

    Thanks for the reply perterAUS.

    I know you’re right in what you say: chaos is inevitable if/when the people move to create change.
    The problem is that (((they))) would impose their own despotic order out of that chaos,

    1. if the general population remain ignorant as to (((their))) plans, and

    2. if (because if 1.) not enough people rise up to take action against the kabal.

    In which case the jackboot of history will come crashing down to ‘protect’ the reast from our ‘extremism’.
    Either way, an improperly informed population can be a dangerous thing.

    Lets just hope our own independent media networks have reached far and wide enough that, despite appearances, the people do by now have more than half a clue what’s happening in the world.

    Love, peace and freedom, dude.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  53. sceptic says:

    Brexit was never going to happen simply because the EU controls all political parties in the UK. They have controlled the talks from before the referendum was voted on. It all boils down to the EU having a laugh at our expense. All British Prime Ministers are Bilderbergers and as such simply follow their masters bidding. The Queen is part of the EU, after all the entire British Monarchy are German and as such agree with what Germany wants. The Queen commited treason when she signed the EU treaties along with every other British person who signed . And if you think it’s bad now wait till 2022 when the EU really shows its hand.

  54. NYMOM says:

    “but with worse beer.”

    And that is something that should never be tolerated…Ireland used to have the best beer and stout and now they can’t even claim that anymore. Even Irish linen and Waterford crystal I understand is no longer produced in Ireland…

    WTF, everything that was unique and good about Ireland is going down the toilet…

  55. peterAUS says:
    @kali

    Thanks for the reply perterAUS.
    I know you’re right in what you say: chaos is inevitable if/when the people move to create change.
    The problem is that (((they))) would impose their own despotic order out of that chaos,
    1. if the general population remain ignorant as to (((their))) plans, and
    2. if (because if 1.) not enough people rise up to take action against the kabal.

    Not quite. All that is needed is that the state capability to deliver violence becomes ineffective.

    “They” need a mechanism to impose and maintain that order. The mechanism has to be effective. If enough people don’t buy into it anymore it will be ineffective. From then on anything can happen.
    In which case the jackboot of history will come crashing down to ‘protect’ the reast from our ‘extremism’.

    Maybe. Jackboot is made up of people. If a lot among those people don’t support the “top” it’s ineffective. The majority of administration, security apparatus and armed forces, in West, on low levels, is composed of whites.

    Either way, an improperly informed population can be a dangerous thing.

    Sometimes.

    Lets just hope our own independent media networks have reached far and wide enough that, despite appearances, the people do by now have more than half a clue what’s happening in the world.

    I know that’s the approach (somehow) agreed on and accepted in alt-Light, even alt-Right. “If we only reach enough people.The key is reaching and informing, educating, people.” I disagree. The effort is one sided in that equation. “We” have to do all the work, while “our” masses are not only indifferent but most of the time hostile to us.
    No.
    The only way forward is working among ourselves, making us stronger. Our strength will attract enough quality then. The rest does not matter. They’ll join, no, be led, IF an opportunity presents itself. Anyway, long story and, besides, not popular around.

    Love, peace and freedom, dude.

    Go for it.
    I’d say “POWER and freedom”. Love, and especially peace come way behind.

    Listen, I know that Westerners, especially Americans, are incapable of learning from examples of other people around the world.
    My take: it would be, REALLY, beneficial, if one studies, VERY carefully, how certain things were done not so long ago from Baltic States to Macedonia and Ukraine. Even Chechnya.

    If, or better, when the voting game finally proves ineffective, what’s the plan? Haha…cancel that, plan I mean. What’s the general, vague, idea?

    Make no mistake. There is one prevalent thought in alternative (Light or Right). Like, we are right and we must win.
    No.
    We can easily lose so badly we’ll be screaming.

    Wouldn’t be the first time such a thing happened.

    My take:
    “Globo-homo” paradise option: 60 %.
    Nationalism/self-determination: 20%.
    M.A.D:20 %.

    Something like that, anyway.

    And, even with your jackboot option: takes just one round, from 800 meters, to make that ineffective. Not everyone can have US President level of protection. In which case….anyway.

    • Replies: @kali
  56. @kali

    You won’t see set aside now. That was dealt with almost two decades ago.

  57. @YetAnotherAnon

    Nothing to do with the EU. There is a giant out of town shopping district less than two miles away in the Swansea Valley. Swansea City needs rail and tram to bring the people back as in San Jose and other US Downtowns which collapsed.

  58. WTF says:

    Take you fav idealogy.

    None of them will work because of ONE FACT.

    Man has never worked out how to ladle off the scum that floats to the top, and until that happens we will have Greed, Propoganda, Wars, Politiicise Justice System, Two Tiered Justice System, Affluenza…….

  59. Edward says:
    @Priss Factor

    Just leave, and there will be a way.

    This should go on a bus. At least it would be a non-statement, as opposed to a lie.

    There is, indeed, a very simple way for the UK to continue do business in a frictionless manner with the European Union: leave the European Union but stay in the Single Market by rejoining EFTA and staying in the EEA, like Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. This would require the UK to follow Single Market rules, but Single Market legislation only accounts for around 21% of EU legislation overall. The UK would leave the political structures of the European Union, and EFTA states have parliamentary sovereignty when it comes to Single Market legislation, unlike EU states.

    For this to happen, though, the Withdrawal Agreement first needs to be signed, and then the UK can enter discussions about doing the above. The reason that this isn’t happening is because the Brexit extremists – Steve Baker, Priti Patel, et al. – are preventing a deal from happening.

    Why? Because they believe in the myth of absolute sovereignty. Every free trade deal requires some degree of regulatory alignment and convergence, and a pooling of sovereignty. One of the benefits of free trade is that it constrains the ability of national governments to irrationally favour domestic producers. Yet, the same so-called free traders who support hard Brexit also believe in absolute sovereignty.

  60. Sean says:

    There is, indeed, a very simple way for the UK to continue do business in a frictionless manner with the European Union: leave the European Union but stay in the Single Market by …

    Of course, but the UK will not be given that access to the single market without conceding on freedom of movement, which is in the interests of business, but not of the majority of the people with a vote in the UK, which is why most voted Brexit. Don’t piss down their back and tell them it’s raining. They twigged–eventually.

    Yet, the same so-called free traders who support hard Brexit also believe in absolute sovereignty.

    The actual votes for Brexit came from people who as Frank Field former Labour MP explained a few years ago in that BBC White Season documentary were of the opinion that the endless EU immigrants were being used to hold wages down. Business simply overplayed its hand, and the people bestirred themselves. Not a very efficient way to decide policy, but Britain has reinvented itself before and will tighten up to stumble on once more.

  61. kali says:
    @peterAUS

    Once again, thanks for the reply peter.

    Whilst I see where you’re coming from I’m not sure that the “mechanims” of controle and/or violence are quite as inaffective as one might hope. Although, if the people (the informed at least) do start to take action maybe, as you imply, that will change. Certainly it’s not unpresidented for the armed forces to (eventually) side with the people.

    For me though, the black/brown/white issue isn’t an issue – mass imigration, sure, but not colour. (I remain unconvinced by the whole black = violent, stupid, criminal arguments I’ve read. But that’s a whole other topic best discussed elsewhere).

    In the meantime I’ve finally managed to finish and upload my blogpost regarding Britain’s constitutional crisis, which I think addresses some of the points you’re making.

    If you’re interested you can read it here :
    tomboy-pink.co.uk/tbpblog/?p=143

    On the point you make about “power and freedom” I’d suggest that “strength” is a better adjective in this context. After all, when we take power over others in effect we actually take responsibility for them. Whilst freedom is to take full responsibility for oneself.

    As for peace, only someone not at peace with themselves could relegate it to an uniportant status. I do take your point though, as comforting an idea it is, entire political, social and economic paradigm shifts ain’t likely to be entirely peaceful affairs.

    And yet I repeat:
    Love, peace and freedom for all who love peace and freedom.
    kali.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @peterAUS
  62. Ivan says:
    @Johnny Rottenborough

    Pretty sound argument. England should stay the way it is or was. If all these migrants are so good, surely they should be able to perform the same miracles back home.

  63. APilgrim says:

    The attacks of Theresa May, MI5, & MI6, on President Trump have left me unconcerned with what happens to Britain.

    Oh and perhaps slightly hostile.

  64. peterAUS says:
    @kali

    …..when we take power over others in effect we actually take responsibility for them…..

    You mean when Germans were ethnically cleansed from Eastern Europe at the end of WW2 those countries took responsibility for them?
    Or, when Serbs/Croats/Muslims/Albanians ethnically cleansed the “other”, in 90’s, they took responsibility for them?
    You sure about it?

    Or, if by some miracle you, Brits, simply expel all those “other” who don’t fit, you’d take responsibility for them?
    Assuming you’d have the power to do so, I mean.

    ….entire political, social and economic paradigm shifts ain’t likely to be entirely peaceful affairs….

    Yep.

    Sooner or later an increasing level of political violence against “deplorables” will be added to all this current blathering around.
    From getting on “watch lists”, through (preventative) interviews to incarceration.

    I’d suggest, to smart people, to focus on that fact.

    Could make a difference, at least in what side of a stick one is.

    And yet I repeat:
    Love, peace and freedom for all who love peace and freedom.

    Yeah.

    Love, peace, freedom…..strength, power:
    You don’t fit->”they” think you could be threat->they want to put you away->you resist->they kill you.
    I don’t quite see, in that scenario any love and responsibility. Plenty of strength, for sure. I mean, a British citizen against SO15. Or S.A.S. Quite disparity in power too, there, I guess.
    Now, true, perhaps, should you chose to relent and go for “lengthy” incarceration, yes, they do have some responsibility to keep you alive in prison. Up to a point. Not sure about love, though. Let alone freedom.

  65. @Tom Verso

    Nobody is trumpetting “the Will of the People”.

    The Brexit vote was performative. We voted on the basis that the government told us they would do what we told them to do: that our vote would be decisive. Parliament voted by 544 to 53 in favour of the referendum.

    Brexit is a binary issue, either in or out of the EU, and people chose out. They did so in the face of advice from every part of the establishment telling them that it would be an economic disaster, but they valued national self-determination higher.

    The MPs in Parliament never wanted Brexit, and they have simply decided they can block it. Not block the “People’s Will”, but renege on the promise they made to the electorate, and do so just because they didn’t get the result they wanted.

    This is giving rise to a measure of disappointment with them.

  66. peterAUS says:
    @kali

    Started reading your blog and then skimmed through it.
    Interesting.
    As, for example:

    As earth angels,
    lovers and healers,
    and Brothers and Mothers
    And Others
    ENERGY TUNED TO A HIGHER FREQUENCY
    !DANCE!

    My apologies…….Ms. Prajita (hope I got that right).

    Please disregard my replies to you here.

    Moving on.

    • Replies: @kali
  67. kali says:
    @peterAUS

    I choise not to disregard your comnents oeter. Your choices are your own to make.

    Of couse when one takes power over others one has the option simply to kill them and have done with the whole ‘responsibility’ thing. Two things though (and you’re gonna LOVE the second!).

    1. To change anything using the same energy/tactics/means it took to create and maintain that thing in the first place actually changes nothing at all.
    In fact that way we only suceed in exchanging one set of overlords for another. So, no thanks. – Don’t become the monster you’re aiming to destroy, because that’s not ‘alt’ anything.

    2. The unjustified killing of others who pose no immediate threat to you carries a heavy karmic price. Just look at the state the world’s in right now.
    Don’t tell me, let me guess, – you don’t ‘believe’ in karma do you? After all, look at the wealth and power held by the ruling classes atm, surely that’s their earthly reward for their ruthlessness?
    And yet, I’d hazard that those ‘ruling classes’ are the LEAST free of all, that they’re bound by a generational legacy which costs them their very JOY OF BEING. (I tried to find a less hippie way to express that thought, simply to please you, but decided you could maybe benefit from exploring these issues outside the cages of conventional thinking you’re currently trapoed in.)

    Here’s the bottom line for me:

    I have NO intrest in exchanging one group of brutal bastards for another. And I certainly have no desire to become a brutal bastard!

    I’ve personally lived free of the system you deplore for over 7 years. I don’t so much as have a bank account.
    Once I recignised that ‘the system’ only serves itsekf at the cost if everything else I got out
    I can telk by your frustrated tone here and elswhere that you didn’t. (You know best though, dude!)

    It’s a ‘stone age’ existance. And yet I’m happier and more fulfilled than anyone I know and have none of the stresses that my friends and family have through remaining in a system and maintaining a a conventional way of life.

    But what can I possibly have to offer by way of perspective to the enlightened alt-not-alt-anything ‘revolutionaries’ here at UR?

    Do you think it would be better that all commenters here stick to the expected ‘alt-right/alt-light’ narrative that generally prevails?
    My perspective is that you’re not ‘alt’ anything, peter… just more of the same dressed in a different uniform.

    Ignore, dismiss, disregard views you find outlandish if you wish.
    But, really, you ain’t gonna change a thing because your ‘alternative is no alternative at all!

    Love (overrated) peace (impossible!) freedom (you already have it, you just don’t know it!)
    kali prajita.
    (No ‘miss’, ‘mrs’or ‘ms’, thanks).

  68. @Other Side

    They moderate everyone’s comment, dimbulb, otherwise we’d be neck deep in “my sister’s cousin’s grandma’s uncle’s hairdresser’s dogwalker makes millions using Goggle” garbage.

    By the way something, who’s so delusional that they believe moderation on any website is aimed specifically at them? And how does such a person fit their enormous head through a door?

  69. SteveK9 says:

    ‘… why its people reduced their power and influence in the world in the belief that they were doing the exact opposite.’

    I don’t think the people of Britain were trying to increase ‘their power and influence in the world’ by voting for Brexit. What they were trying to do is free themselves from an unelected elite following policies that benefit that elite at the expense of the average Brit.

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