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Erdogan Is Using This Failed Coup to Get Rid of Secularists in Turkey
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The sweeping purge of soldiers and officials in the wake of the failed coup in Turkey is likely to be conducted with extra vigour because a number of close associates of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan are among the 265 dead. The number of people detained so far is at 6,000 including soldiers, and around 3,000 judges and legal officials who are unlikely to have been connected to the attempted military takeover.

On Sunday, Erdogan attended the funeral of the elder brother of his chief adviser, Mustafa Varank. Varank’s older brother, Dr Ilhan Varank, studied at Ohio State University, and was the chairman of Computer and Technology Education Department at Istanbul’s Yildiz Technical University, according to Anadolu Agency (AA). It says that the 45-year-old was shot at and killed as he demonstrated in front of the Istanbul Municipality building on the night of the coup, 15 July.

Another name close to Erdogan, Erol Olcak, was shot and killed along with his 16-year-old son at the Bosphorus Bridge, local media reported. Having met the president many years ago when they both belonged to the same Islamic party known as Prosperity Party, Olcak became a prominent name in AKP’s media and publicity campaigns since the party was founded in 2001. Olcak and his son were at the Bosphorus Bridge to protest the coup attempt when they were shot by soldiers.

The coup plotters clearly saw the importance of detaining or eliminating Erdogan but were unable to find him at the holiday resort of Marmaris, in south west Turkey, where he was staying, as is shown by the film of shootings there. They also tried to target his most important aides by taking them into custody. His secretary Fahri Kasirga was taken prisoner by rebel soldiers, according to his son, who tweeted on the night of the coup that “they wanted [pro-coup forces] to force my father to stay in his house, but when he resisted, the bloody traitors took him into an ambulance and drove off.” The story is confirmed by Erdogan himself who said as he headed to the airport at Marmaris that “they took my secretary. What are you going to do with my secretary?”

The failed coup is serving as an excuse for a massive round-up of members of the judiciary and army officers, far greater than anything seen in Turkey for years, and is presumably a bid to secure Erdogan’s grip on the Turkish state. So numerous are those detained that a sports stadium is being used to hold some of them, a development that has ominous similarities with mass arrests in South American coups in the last century. Some 140 out of 387 judges in the Court of Appeal have been detained along with 48 out of 156 from the Council of State.

It may be that Erdogan is using the coup to eliminate the most powerful officials seen as loyal to Turkey as a secular state.


(Reprinted from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Erdogan, Islam, Turkey 
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  1. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    What’s secularism these days? Rationalism and critical thinking? No, it’s a quasi-religious worship of Homos, Celebrities, and Black Athletes.

    I would defend true secularism based on reason and patriotism.

    I don’t see that anywhere in the world except maybe Russia to some extent.

    Secularism in Turkey could mean ‘gay pride parades’. I’ll take Islamism over Homomania, a total evil.

    Read More
    • Disagree: pink_point
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Secularism in Turkey has historically been a muscular nationalism associated with the military (Mussolini and Hitler greatly admired Ataturk). It's unfortunate that he also purged ancient Greek and Armenian minorities, but I think they were doing pretty well ideologically until Erdogan.
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  2. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkish-president-says-u-s-exile-fethullah-gulen-responsible-for-coup-1468693543

    Erdogan suspecting US hand in coup attempt.

    I dunno…

    But US did fund and support the overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine.

    And US gave support to military takeover of Egypt.

    Erdogan, who worked with US to destabilize Syria, has no right to complain.

    He is a nutter.

    As for this Gulen, US seems to be harboring an Ayatollah-like character like France hosted the Ayatollah before he went back to Iran.

    And US has one in relation to China as well: Falun Gong leaders in the US.

    Maybe they can merge into Gulen Gong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Quartermaster
    The US did not fund the ousting of Yanukovich. Yanukovich tried to betray the country back into Putin's hands and Ukrainians were having none of it. Obama was against the military takeover in Egypt as well.

    It's one thing to hold myths. It's an entirely different thing to be so gullible that one swallows propaganda as you, and so many on this site, have done.
  3. The demandation to extradite Gulen is the most apparent instance of what you envision.

    Read More
  4. @Priss Factor
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkish-president-says-u-s-exile-fethullah-gulen-responsible-for-coup-1468693543

    Erdogan suspecting US hand in coup attempt.

    I dunno...

    But US did fund and support the overthrow of the democratically elected government in Ukraine.

    And US gave support to military takeover of Egypt.

    Erdogan, who worked with US to destabilize Syria, has no right to complain.

    He is a nutter.

    As for this Gulen, US seems to be harboring an Ayatollah-like character like France hosted the Ayatollah before he went back to Iran.

    And US has one in relation to China as well: Falun Gong leaders in the US.

    Maybe they can merge into Gulen Gong.

    The US did not fund the ousting of Yanukovich. Yanukovich tried to betray the country back into Putin’s hands and Ukrainians were having none of it. Obama was against the military takeover in Egypt as well.

    It’s one thing to hold myths. It’s an entirely different thing to be so gullible that one swallows propaganda as you, and so many on this site, have done.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    You gotta be kidding me. There were Americans ON THE GROUND when the overthrow was taking place. Nuland was there calling the shots. American politicians and US media were cheerleading the events.

    US has been funding the opposition in Ukraine for over a decade.

    It was no secret that Yanu was pro-Russian... just like some Ukies were pro-EU.

    Ukrainian politics has been game of leaning one way or another.

    And there were plenty who supported Yanu who was ousted only by violence orchestrated with US backing.

    Publicly, Obama made the right noises about Egypt, but it was lip service at best, and when the takeover happened by the military, there was no protest(and certainly no intervention as with Libya to protect innocents).

    The US policy in Ukraine has been directed by Jewish Globalists who are still smarting Putin's foiling of the total takeover by Jewish oligarchs.

    Indeed, US anti-Russian campaign was on during the Sochi Olympics, nd the vile media lies about Russian 'invasion' and the continuing sanctions pushed by the US make it plain as day that the Ukriane coup would not have succeeded without Zio-US involvement.
  5. Erdogan has been trying to root out the Kemalists for years. The Kemalists have stood between Erdogan and his vision for a new Caliphate, with him as Caliph. The “coup” was incompetently carried out and is, most likely, a set up to allow Erdogan to root out the remaining Kemalists.

    Read More
  6. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Quartermaster
    The US did not fund the ousting of Yanukovich. Yanukovich tried to betray the country back into Putin's hands and Ukrainians were having none of it. Obama was against the military takeover in Egypt as well.

    It's one thing to hold myths. It's an entirely different thing to be so gullible that one swallows propaganda as you, and so many on this site, have done.

    You gotta be kidding me. There were Americans ON THE GROUND when the overthrow was taking place. Nuland was there calling the shots. American politicians and US media were cheerleading the events.

    US has been funding the opposition in Ukraine for over a decade.

    It was no secret that Yanu was pro-Russian… just like some Ukies were pro-EU.

    Ukrainian politics has been game of leaning one way or another.

    And there were plenty who supported Yanu who was ousted only by violence orchestrated with US backing.

    Publicly, Obama made the right noises about Egypt, but it was lip service at best, and when the takeover happened by the military, there was no protest(and certainly no intervention as with Libya to protect innocents).

    The US policy in Ukraine has been directed by Jewish Globalists who are still smarting Putin’s foiling of the total takeover by Jewish oligarchs.

    Indeed, US anti-Russian campaign was on during the Sochi Olympics, nd the vile media lies about Russian ‘invasion’ and the continuing sanctions pushed by the US make it plain as day that the Ukriane coup would not have succeeded without Zio-US involvement.

    Read More
  7. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment

    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2016/0718/Before-Turkey-coup-bid-high-school-students-had-joined-fray-over-Erdogan

    Education Wars.

    I would support secularism but for the fact that it is defined by the West where so-called secular values amount to little more than uncritical and censorious worship of Jews, homos, Negroes, celebrities, Diversity, and PC.

    It is secular in name only. It is really a neo-faith. Dissidents are not encouraged but purged and blacklisted as heretics.

    Ask Steven Salaita. Ask Jason Richwine. Ask Mizzou administrators ousted by BLM thugs.
    Ask Milo the fruitkin who was disrupted by nuts at Depaul.

    Read More
  8. @Priss Factor
    What's secularism these days? Rationalism and critical thinking? No, it's a quasi-religious worship of Homos, Celebrities, and Black Athletes.

    I would defend true secularism based on reason and patriotism.

    I don't see that anywhere in the world except maybe Russia to some extent.

    Secularism in Turkey could mean 'gay pride parades'. I'll take Islamism over Homomania, a total evil.

    Secularism in Turkey has historically been a muscular nationalism associated with the military (Mussolini and Hitler greatly admired Ataturk). It’s unfortunate that he also purged ancient Greek and Armenian minorities, but I think they were doing pretty well ideologically until Erdogan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    That was then, this is now.

    Secularism has meant following in the footsteps the West.

    There was a time when the West was indeed tops in everything. After all, the West once led in muscular nationalism.

    Now, Western Secularism is worship of blackness, Jewishness, and homo-ness.

    Western nations are no longer in control of white elites who represent white masses. They are controlled by Jewish-Homo Globalists who undermine nationalism in favor of Globalism that favors Jewish Power Worldwide.

    Secular Turks even brought homo pride parades to Turkey. It was canceled this year thanks to Islamist furor.

    Between Islam culture and Homomania, I go with Islam.

    , @RadicalCenter
    "Unfortunate" is a great understatement for anyone who is descended from Greeks or Armenians, anyone who is Christian, or indeed anyone who is not Muslim and is displeased and afraid when Muslims exterminate or subjugate yet another non-muslim people.
  9. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Marcus
    Secularism in Turkey has historically been a muscular nationalism associated with the military (Mussolini and Hitler greatly admired Ataturk). It's unfortunate that he also purged ancient Greek and Armenian minorities, but I think they were doing pretty well ideologically until Erdogan.

    That was then, this is now.

    Secularism has meant following in the footsteps the West.

    There was a time when the West was indeed tops in everything. After all, the West once led in muscular nationalism.

    Now, Western Secularism is worship of blackness, Jewishness, and homo-ness.

    Western nations are no longer in control of white elites who represent white masses. They are controlled by Jewish-Homo Globalists who undermine nationalism in favor of Globalism that favors Jewish Power Worldwide.

    Secular Turks even brought homo pride parades to Turkey. It was canceled this year thanks to Islamist furor.

    Between Islam culture and Homomania, I go with Islam.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Secular liberal Turks are a powerless minority compared to secular rightists (who spent decades persecuting the liberals and communists). But if I had to choose between the two, a theocratic Turkey is much more dangerous to Europe than a mildly liberal one.
    , @Talha

    Between Islam culture and Homomania, I go with Islam.
     
    Same here, the question is which interpretation. I have been reading the various comments on the resurgent Islam in Turkey (indeed it was always there under the surface in spite of the efforts of the elite) but they seem to be off the mark, especially in regards to Gulen's group. Most people here are not ignorant enough to think Islam has nothing to do with politics, so...first, to understand the political/public Islam that pervades much of Turkey, one must put it into proper context; this is the historical Islam that has deep ties to its Orthodox roots, whether in its connection with the Hanafi school or the many active Sufi Orders. The 'Islamists' of Turkey - if one wants to call them that - are not exact parallels with what you find in Egypt, Indo-Pakistan, or in a place like Saudi. It is not tied to any of the latter-day reform movements that can be at loggerheads with traditional Islam; Maududism (Jamaat Islaami, etc.), Salafism (Muslim Brotherhood, etc.), Wahhabism, etc. Rather, this is the recapture of the standard from the secularist camp by the centuries-old, deep-rooted traditional Muslim ethos in Turkey - remember, this is the land of Mawlana Rumi (ra) (http://aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turkey-erdogan-praises-sufi-mystic-rumis-heritage/91794). It may be informed by the other movements and learn from their mistakes and even make alliances, but to make an apples-to-apples comparison is plain wrong. Also, anybody who thinks Mr. Gulen is truly going for state power in a reboot of Ayatollah Khomeini, then they lack knowledge in regards to both Vilayat-e-Faqih and the spiritual and intellectual root of that movement/organization which is (Beduizzaman) Said Nursi (ra) - a man who specifically shunned being incorporated into a corrupt Turkish state order and spent many years in jail. He never advocated violent overthrow of the government and stressed Muslim unity and compromise - I did research on this man (Nursi) years ago when writing an article on him.

    This is by far, one of the better analysis on the subject I have found to date - even while being antagonistic to the subject matter. This goes very deep - even into the roots of the specific Naqshbandi branch that is at play here (it is a brother branch of my order) and why it can actually collaborate with non-extremist Salafi strains without compromising its character:
    http://www.hudson.org/research/11601-the-naqshbandi-khalidi-order-and-political-islam-in-turkey

    It has just a few mistakes, like:
    "It would be a mistake, however, to view the Naqshbandi order through this lens. It stands out among Sufi orders for its compatibility with orthodox, official Islam." - Uh, no - plenty of other Orders are very Orthodox...

    "Traditionally, Turks have tended toward relatively liberal schools of thought in Islam, such as the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, which grants considerable space to the interpretation of religious law. By contrast, Arab and Kurdish Islam has tended toward the more Orthodox schools of thought..." - I have no clue what they are trying to state here - as if the Hanafis are not Orthodox...

    ...but the positives are way too much to pass up.

    Everyone should keep a few things in mind when making one's calculation including this: the Ottomans spilled the blood of, not one, but two of their field armies to crush the extremist Wahhabi rebellion out of the Najd - it was the British that gave it succor and control of some of the richest resources in the world (which they are squandering left and right - except for the improvements to the Holy Sanctuaries).

    Also, keep in mind, Erdogan's at-times realpolitik authoritarian moves are exactly to pin the secularists down into the corner they painted themselves in:
    "Ultimately, Erdogan wants to change the constitution because it isn’t good. And they don’t what that. Then act in accordance with the existing laws. In end effect, they are not allowed to criticize Erdogan. It’s not allowed by the constitution. And Erdogan didn’t make these laws. Those aren’t Erdogan’s laws. They are the laws of the Ataturk people. They are their laws! And Erdogan, says, “Let’s change it”. And the Ataturk people don’t want to. So, Erdogan says, “Okay, then I will act in accordance with the existing laws. According to your laws, you are not allowed to criticize me”. In Turkey it is not allowed to insult the highest governmental office. It’s forbidden. You, when you go and say that Erdogan is shit, it’s forbidden. But this has nothing to do with the person of Erdogan. He can’t change these laws. He is the president. As president he can’t change the laws. Only the parliament can change the laws. And they have to have a three-fourths majority. And the AKP doesn’t have a three-fourths majority."
    http://www.robertrigney.com/2016/06/23/erdogans-big-picture-a-sufi-imam-throws-light-on-tayyips-grand-ambitions/

    This is a lesson for us all; if one wants to grant the state special powers and privileges when 'their team' is in charge, then don't be surprised when your side is being legally suppressed when your team is wearing the 'away' colors.

    Peace.

  10. @Priss Factor
    That was then, this is now.

    Secularism has meant following in the footsteps the West.

    There was a time when the West was indeed tops in everything. After all, the West once led in muscular nationalism.

    Now, Western Secularism is worship of blackness, Jewishness, and homo-ness.

    Western nations are no longer in control of white elites who represent white masses. They are controlled by Jewish-Homo Globalists who undermine nationalism in favor of Globalism that favors Jewish Power Worldwide.

    Secular Turks even brought homo pride parades to Turkey. It was canceled this year thanks to Islamist furor.

    Between Islam culture and Homomania, I go with Islam.

    Secular liberal Turks are a powerless minority compared to secular rightists (who spent decades persecuting the liberals and communists). But if I had to choose between the two, a theocratic Turkey is much more dangerous to Europe than a mildly liberal one.

    Read More
  11. @Priss Factor
    That was then, this is now.

    Secularism has meant following in the footsteps the West.

    There was a time when the West was indeed tops in everything. After all, the West once led in muscular nationalism.

    Now, Western Secularism is worship of blackness, Jewishness, and homo-ness.

    Western nations are no longer in control of white elites who represent white masses. They are controlled by Jewish-Homo Globalists who undermine nationalism in favor of Globalism that favors Jewish Power Worldwide.

    Secular Turks even brought homo pride parades to Turkey. It was canceled this year thanks to Islamist furor.

    Between Islam culture and Homomania, I go with Islam.

    Between Islam culture and Homomania, I go with Islam.

    Same here, the question is which interpretation. I have been reading the various comments on the resurgent Islam in Turkey (indeed it was always there under the surface in spite of the efforts of the elite) but they seem to be off the mark, especially in regards to Gulen’s group. Most people here are not ignorant enough to think Islam has nothing to do with politics, so…first, to understand the political/public Islam that pervades much of Turkey, one must put it into proper context; this is the historical Islam that has deep ties to its Orthodox roots, whether in its connection with the Hanafi school or the many active Sufi Orders. The ‘Islamists’ of Turkey – if one wants to call them that – are not exact parallels with what you find in Egypt, Indo-Pakistan, or in a place like Saudi. It is not tied to any of the latter-day reform movements that can be at loggerheads with traditional Islam; Maududism (Jamaat Islaami, etc.), Salafism (Muslim Brotherhood, etc.), Wahhabism, etc. Rather, this is the recapture of the standard from the secularist camp by the centuries-old, deep-rooted traditional Muslim ethos in Turkey – remember, this is the land of Mawlana Rumi (ra) (http://aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turkey-erdogan-praises-sufi-mystic-rumis-heritage/91794). It may be informed by the other movements and learn from their mistakes and even make alliances, but to make an apples-to-apples comparison is plain wrong. Also, anybody who thinks Mr. Gulen is truly going for state power in a reboot of Ayatollah Khomeini, then they lack knowledge in regards to both Vilayat-e-Faqih and the spiritual and intellectual root of that movement/organization which is (Beduizzaman) Said Nursi (ra) – a man who specifically shunned being incorporated into a corrupt Turkish state order and spent many years in jail. He never advocated violent overthrow of the government and stressed Muslim unity and compromise – I did research on this man (Nursi) years ago when writing an article on him.

    This is by far, one of the better analysis on the subject I have found to date – even while being antagonistic to the subject matter. This goes very deep – even into the roots of the specific Naqshbandi branch that is at play here (it is a brother branch of my order) and why it can actually collaborate with non-extremist Salafi strains without compromising its character:

    http://www.hudson.org/research/11601-the-naqshbandi-khalidi-order-and-political-islam-in-turkey

    It has just a few mistakes, like:
    “It would be a mistake, however, to view the Naqshbandi order through this lens. It stands out among Sufi orders for its compatibility with orthodox, official Islam.” – Uh, no – plenty of other Orders are very Orthodox…

    “Traditionally, Turks have tended toward relatively liberal schools of thought in Islam, such as the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, which grants considerable space to the interpretation of religious law. By contrast, Arab and Kurdish Islam has tended toward the more Orthodox schools of thought…” – I have no clue what they are trying to state here – as if the Hanafis are not Orthodox…

    …but the positives are way too much to pass up.

    Everyone should keep a few things in mind when making one’s calculation including this: the Ottomans spilled the blood of, not one, but two of their field armies to crush the extremist Wahhabi rebellion out of the Najd – it was the British that gave it succor and control of some of the richest resources in the world (which they are squandering left and right – except for the improvements to the Holy Sanctuaries).

    Also, keep in mind, Erdogan’s at-times realpolitik authoritarian moves are exactly to pin the secularists down into the corner they painted themselves in:
    “Ultimately, Erdogan wants to change the constitution because it isn’t good. And they don’t what that. Then act in accordance with the existing laws. In end effect, they are not allowed to criticize Erdogan. It’s not allowed by the constitution. And Erdogan didn’t make these laws. Those aren’t Erdogan’s laws. They are the laws of the Ataturk people. They are their laws! And Erdogan, says, “Let’s change it”. And the Ataturk people don’t want to. So, Erdogan says, “Okay, then I will act in accordance with the existing laws. According to your laws, you are not allowed to criticize me”. In Turkey it is not allowed to insult the highest governmental office. It’s forbidden. You, when you go and say that Erdogan is shit, it’s forbidden. But this has nothing to do with the person of Erdogan. He can’t change these laws. He is the president. As president he can’t change the laws. Only the parliament can change the laws. And they have to have a three-fourths majority. And the AKP doesn’t have a three-fourths majority.”

    http://www.robertrigney.com/2016/06/23/erdogans-big-picture-a-sufi-imam-throws-light-on-tayyips-grand-ambitions/

    This is a lesson for us all; if one wants to grant the state special powers and privileges when ‘their team’ is in charge, then don’t be surprised when your side is being legally suppressed when your team is wearing the ‘away’ colors.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    And just to be clear - Erdogan may or may not be able to stick around - his political mistakes are evident for the world to see. The point I was trying to make is that if one thinks Ataturkism is going to come back to replace him, then they are failing to see things on the long-term continuum.
  12. @Marcus
    Secularism in Turkey has historically been a muscular nationalism associated with the military (Mussolini and Hitler greatly admired Ataturk). It's unfortunate that he also purged ancient Greek and Armenian minorities, but I think they were doing pretty well ideologically until Erdogan.

    “Unfortunate” is a great understatement for anyone who is descended from Greeks or Armenians, anyone who is Christian, or indeed anyone who is not Muslim and is displeased and afraid when Muslims exterminate or subjugate yet another non-muslim people.

    Read More
  13. I agree, but I said that because the actual atrocities took place under the previous regime. Ataturk did deport some of the remaining minorities unfortunately.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Erdo
    You need to better research what you just wrote. There was an agreement between Ataturk's Turkey and Greece to swap Muslim and Orthodox populations and I think both sides benefited from this as it increased stability of both. It wasn't a one-sided deporting as you falsely claimed.

    BTW, the Muslims who brought from Greece to Turkey were Greek otherwise, so this wasn't a racial swap, but rather a religiosity based swap.
  14. @Talha

    Between Islam culture and Homomania, I go with Islam.
     
    Same here, the question is which interpretation. I have been reading the various comments on the resurgent Islam in Turkey (indeed it was always there under the surface in spite of the efforts of the elite) but they seem to be off the mark, especially in regards to Gulen's group. Most people here are not ignorant enough to think Islam has nothing to do with politics, so...first, to understand the political/public Islam that pervades much of Turkey, one must put it into proper context; this is the historical Islam that has deep ties to its Orthodox roots, whether in its connection with the Hanafi school or the many active Sufi Orders. The 'Islamists' of Turkey - if one wants to call them that - are not exact parallels with what you find in Egypt, Indo-Pakistan, or in a place like Saudi. It is not tied to any of the latter-day reform movements that can be at loggerheads with traditional Islam; Maududism (Jamaat Islaami, etc.), Salafism (Muslim Brotherhood, etc.), Wahhabism, etc. Rather, this is the recapture of the standard from the secularist camp by the centuries-old, deep-rooted traditional Muslim ethos in Turkey - remember, this is the land of Mawlana Rumi (ra) (http://aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turkey-erdogan-praises-sufi-mystic-rumis-heritage/91794). It may be informed by the other movements and learn from their mistakes and even make alliances, but to make an apples-to-apples comparison is plain wrong. Also, anybody who thinks Mr. Gulen is truly going for state power in a reboot of Ayatollah Khomeini, then they lack knowledge in regards to both Vilayat-e-Faqih and the spiritual and intellectual root of that movement/organization which is (Beduizzaman) Said Nursi (ra) - a man who specifically shunned being incorporated into a corrupt Turkish state order and spent many years in jail. He never advocated violent overthrow of the government and stressed Muslim unity and compromise - I did research on this man (Nursi) years ago when writing an article on him.

    This is by far, one of the better analysis on the subject I have found to date - even while being antagonistic to the subject matter. This goes very deep - even into the roots of the specific Naqshbandi branch that is at play here (it is a brother branch of my order) and why it can actually collaborate with non-extremist Salafi strains without compromising its character:
    http://www.hudson.org/research/11601-the-naqshbandi-khalidi-order-and-political-islam-in-turkey

    It has just a few mistakes, like:
    "It would be a mistake, however, to view the Naqshbandi order through this lens. It stands out among Sufi orders for its compatibility with orthodox, official Islam." - Uh, no - plenty of other Orders are very Orthodox...

    "Traditionally, Turks have tended toward relatively liberal schools of thought in Islam, such as the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, which grants considerable space to the interpretation of religious law. By contrast, Arab and Kurdish Islam has tended toward the more Orthodox schools of thought..." - I have no clue what they are trying to state here - as if the Hanafis are not Orthodox...

    ...but the positives are way too much to pass up.

    Everyone should keep a few things in mind when making one's calculation including this: the Ottomans spilled the blood of, not one, but two of their field armies to crush the extremist Wahhabi rebellion out of the Najd - it was the British that gave it succor and control of some of the richest resources in the world (which they are squandering left and right - except for the improvements to the Holy Sanctuaries).

    Also, keep in mind, Erdogan's at-times realpolitik authoritarian moves are exactly to pin the secularists down into the corner they painted themselves in:
    "Ultimately, Erdogan wants to change the constitution because it isn’t good. And they don’t what that. Then act in accordance with the existing laws. In end effect, they are not allowed to criticize Erdogan. It’s not allowed by the constitution. And Erdogan didn’t make these laws. Those aren’t Erdogan’s laws. They are the laws of the Ataturk people. They are their laws! And Erdogan, says, “Let’s change it”. And the Ataturk people don’t want to. So, Erdogan says, “Okay, then I will act in accordance with the existing laws. According to your laws, you are not allowed to criticize me”. In Turkey it is not allowed to insult the highest governmental office. It’s forbidden. You, when you go and say that Erdogan is shit, it’s forbidden. But this has nothing to do with the person of Erdogan. He can’t change these laws. He is the president. As president he can’t change the laws. Only the parliament can change the laws. And they have to have a three-fourths majority. And the AKP doesn’t have a three-fourths majority."
    http://www.robertrigney.com/2016/06/23/erdogans-big-picture-a-sufi-imam-throws-light-on-tayyips-grand-ambitions/

    This is a lesson for us all; if one wants to grant the state special powers and privileges when 'their team' is in charge, then don't be surprised when your side is being legally suppressed when your team is wearing the 'away' colors.

    Peace.

    And just to be clear – Erdogan may or may not be able to stick around – his political mistakes are evident for the world to see. The point I was trying to make is that if one thinks Ataturkism is going to come back to replace him, then they are failing to see things on the long-term continuum.

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  15. There are no so-called “secularists” in Turkey. They’re pro-Western-Israel Kemalist Donmeh (Crypto-Jewish) minority occupying senior positions in military, judiciary, banking, and news media.

    Since 2002, several anti-AKP elements in Turkish army and judiciary have been sacked, prosecuted and jailed for conspiring to topple Erdogan (here).

    In 2014, a Turkish court issued arrest warrants for 4 Israeli generals involved in murders of 10 Turkish aid workers abroad MV Mavi Marmara in 2010 which resulted in a rift and within Turkey-Israel alliance against Arab countries since 1949. Since 2010, the Zionist regime and its lobby groups in the West have supported Turkish anti-government protests.

    The European Union, a Judeo-Christian exclusive club, has been dragging its feet over Muslim-majority Turkey’s membership for over two decades now while accepting several parasite European nations. Why? The Jewish Wall Street Journal provided the answer to the puzzle in 2010 (here).

    “Clearly, the CIA, MI6, and the Mossad were directly involved in the planning, coordination, and execution of yesterday’s coup attempt. Just as they have been directly involved in all of Turkey’s military-staged coups over the past 40 years, this one fits the pattern perfectly. The disillusioned segments of Turkish society don’t have sufficient control or influence over the military to effectuate a successful coup; only the Western intelligence agencies have such power,” State of the Nation, July 16, 2016.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/07/18/leader-of-turkeys-failed-military-coup-served-in-israel/

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  16. @Marcus
    I agree, but I said that because the actual atrocities took place under the previous regime. Ataturk did deport some of the remaining minorities unfortunately.

    You need to better research what you just wrote. There was an agreement between Ataturk’s Turkey and Greece to swap Muslim and Orthodox populations and I think both sides benefited from this as it increased stability of both. It wasn’t a one-sided deporting as you falsely claimed.

    BTW, the Muslims who brought from Greece to Turkey were Greek otherwise, so this wasn’t a racial swap, but rather a religiosity based swap.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    It was national, not racial: race and religion were interchangeable.
  17. @Erdo
    You need to better research what you just wrote. There was an agreement between Ataturk's Turkey and Greece to swap Muslim and Orthodox populations and I think both sides benefited from this as it increased stability of both. It wasn't a one-sided deporting as you falsely claimed.

    BTW, the Muslims who brought from Greece to Turkey were Greek otherwise, so this wasn't a racial swap, but rather a religiosity based swap.

    It was national, not racial: race and religion were interchangeable.

    Read More
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