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Britain Has a Delusional View of Itself on the Global Stage
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A single stupid remark by a political leader can suddenly illuminate deep and destructive ignorance about important issues. This has happened to me twice recently, the first time during the confrontation between Britain and the EU about the status of Northern Ireland and the Irish border after Brexit. I saw prominent Brexiteer Iain Duncan Smith explaining that the Irish government was hanging tough on negotiations because “the presidential election is coming up”. This caused hilarity in Ireland because there is no presidential election in the offing there. The rest of his analysis of what was happening in Ireland, delivered in a self-confident and patronising tone, was equally ill-informed.

Duncan Smith’s remarks were significant because they showed that the Brexiteers knew as much about Ireland as they did about Samoa. It never figured in their referendum campaign in 2016 and they have not thought much about it since. For all their supposed devotion to British history, they have forgotten, if they ever knew, that the Irish question has been a central preoccupation of modern British governments from 1880 to 1922 and again from 1968 to 2007. Already there were signs that this issue – the cause of the bloodiest and longest guerrilla war in Western Europe since the Second World War – beginning to re-emerge when Theresa May did a deal with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) to give her a majority after the general election. She casually abandoned the British government’s neutrality between unionists and nationalists in Northern Ireland, which was essential to its role as a mediator between the two sides.

There is a flippancy about the way in which the Brexiteers saw through branches, both Irish and European, on which Britain is sitting. A striking feature of Duncan Smith’s ill-informed words was not just his ignorance of the facts, but the tell-you-a-thing-or-two-old-boy tone in which they were uttered. A conservative historian, Sir Lewis Namier, once wrote that “strictly logical conclusions based on insufficient data are a deadly danger, especially when pride is taken in the performance.” This is very much the stance of the proponents of Brexit who dispose of uncomfortable facts as if they were so many English archers shooting down French knights at Agincourt.

The dispute with Ireland and the EU appeared to disappear when agreement was reached on moving on from the present phase of Brexit in December. But this only happened because Britain has issued post-dated political cheques to the EU, Irish government and nationalists and unionists in Northern Ireland that cannot all be honoured. If Britain does not want a hard border, then it will have to stay within the single market and customs union and vice versa. Presumably, the Brexiteers acclaimed a series of climb-downs because they do not intend to stick to the agreement and want to get to Brexit day on 29 March 2019 without their project going visibly on the rocks. Britain will then be free of the shackles of the EU and able to ignore past promises as it makes its way in the wider world.

But the advocates of Brexit have made extraordinarily little effort to find out what this wider world is like. On the contrary, their view of it is constructed out of gobbets of propaganda and wishful thinking, which make it impossible to have any realistic view of Britain’s real strengths and weaknesses. There is nothing wrong with any nation seeking self-determination or greater control of its future, but the leaders of such a movement owe it to their followers to get their calculations right.

Since I write mostly about the Middle East I am very conspicuous of how British failures there since 2003 have been rooted in a refusal to view the political landscape objectively. This lack of knowledge was crystallized for me recently by a remark by the new Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson which does not, at first, look as if it has much to do with Britain’s international status.

He said in an interview that British terrorists should be hunted down and killed on the grounds that “a dead terrorist can’t cause any harm to Britain”. But who does he think decides who is a terrorist in Syria and Iraq? Does he imagine that there is some fair-minded judicial process before “terrorist” suspects are jailed, tortured, shot in the head or tossed off the top of the nearest tall building? His words could be dismissed as a crude bit of bombast by a politician demonstrating that he is tough on terrorists. But what he is really doing is giving license to the lynching of anybody with a British passport or with even the most remote British connections in the vast war zone that stretches from the western frontier of Iran to the Mediterranean and from Turkey to Yemen. There are far more innocent but vulnerable Britons in this area than there are British Isis fighters. Declaring open season on them is cruel and irresponsible.

Possibly Williamson imagines that “terrorists” will be identified and hunted down by British forces in Iraq, Syria or Afghanistan, but the picture he paints of Britain’s role in these conflicts is exaggerated to the point of fantasy. Such pretensions are the province not just of the Conservative right, but of British politicians and pundits in general. Remember the great debate in Parliament in 2015 about British military intervention in Syria in which Hilary Benn won Tory cheers by comparing British intervention to 1940 and other iconic periods in British history?

ORDER IT NOW

This was nonsense: nine months later it emerged that the RAF had carried out just 65 air strikes on the ground in Syria because we had no allies on the ground though David Cameron had claimed that there were as many as 70,000 moderate fighters on our side. This was admitted by General Mark Carleton-Smith, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff who said that in Syria the UK was “marginally engaged, from the air only, across a much less homogenous battlefield, where the identification of the multifaceted parties, agencies and militias is much more difficult to determine.” In other words we can’t tell friend from foe, yet in this chaotic battlefield Gavin Williamson believes that British Isis fighters can be identified and eliminated.

Britain is a minor player in Syria and the major player in Northern Ireland, but makes similar mistakes in both places. This is why the off-the-cuff remarks of senior politicians like Williamson and Iain Duncan Smith are significant. In both cases there is the same unblushing ignorance of the facts. This is compounded by an exaggerated idea of Britain’s real power and influence.

This does not mean that Britain is becoming a failed state. “There is a great deal of ruin in a nation,” as Adam Smith famously pointed out. But nations do fail all the same if they consistently misjudge their place in the world around them.

(Republished from The Independent by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Britain 
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  1. LondonBob says:

    Don’t agree on the Irish border issue, there is a perfectly workable fudge, but our political class still love to grandstand on the world’s stage, they don’t seem to realise no one else is listening.

  2. Merry Christmas or Diversimas

  3. I am a an OAP Brexiteer (not that old) and I know what Britain was like before we joined the common market. If asked I would turn the clock back to the 1960 in a flash. Few immigrants, a lot of employment, cheap houses, but we were quite poor. I would swop poverty any day to get rid of the likes of Sadique Kahnt. And it will come to that post Brexit. The UK will get poorer and the dependency culture, so beloved of the ‘do gooders’ and sponged off by many immigrants will evaporate and we will have to work for a living again.

    No I am not a fascist, I wholly agree with most of what you have written about the Middle East (Syria especially) but you have pulled many punches to get published.

    We can sort out the Irish border many ways, we remain ingenious, if mis-lead!!!

    However keep up the good work.

    • Replies: @Fredrik
  4. Im a Brexiter, but don’t believe we`ll ever leave the EU.

    Everyday here the public are bombarded with negative propaganda from remainers from the vast majority of career politicians and the TV media. Its just a matter of time before Brexit will be kicked into the long grass for a few more years, just long enough for a greater influx of immigrants to swing a new referendum to remain.

    Britain is finished anyway, the decay and decline is all around and obvious for everyone to see, its strange many talk openly about it now where before they didn’t, compared to just 10 years ago.

    In a few years we`ll all be swallowed up into an EU super state, young people (mostly left wing brainwashed remainers now) will live under a weak democracy, with minimal ability to change anything they don’t like.

    Health Care for the poor will be more like a quick basic fire service, anything more will be unaffordable. Most of the jobs will be automated or done in China and many will be living half a mile in the sky in cramped overpriced hong kong style apartments as the population of the UK becomes an immigrant swamped hellhole.

    “Don’t be racist” I wonder what history will say ha ha ha, suppose some have to learn the hard way about left wing propaganda and giving away your democracy.

  5. Fredrik says:
    @Eric Bloodaxe

    I would swop poverty any day to get rid of the likes of Sadique Kahnt. And it will come to that post Brexit.

    No, it won’t. This is what people like Farage and Rees-Mogg are telling you but they won’t stop it. In fact they will increase the inflow of Commonwealth immigrants like Khan. You know, they are more like you than the Poles…

    We can sort out the Irish border many ways, we remain ingenious, if mis-lead!!!

    The British should have told the EU side the solution then.

    Don’t forget ‘you’ have promised Ireland to keep the border open but ‘you’ have also promised Leave voters to close the very same border. You can have one but not both.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  6. I heard a blurb on UK TV last week where some government official congratulated British forces for defeatining ISIS. There have been quite a few governments patting themselves on the backs for this accomplishment, but it strikes me as making your point that the UK felt it could take credit for a battle largely fought by Syrians, Iraquis, Hezbollah, and the Russians. Then again, the Brits were convinced they played a major part in WW2.

    As for Ireland, the Westminster Parliament should grant NI independence, whether they want it or not, and let the Irish work the Irish question out among themselves. I always wondered why bombs were going off in London rather than Dublin.

  7. chris m says:

    it is rather unfortunate that you have to use the name of Iain Duncan Smith to make your point regarding UKs delusional view-of-itself on the global stage.

    as i understand it, he is one of the few rational and fair-minded people in the House of Commons.(although i could be wrong, but i very much doubt it)

    if you wanted to make issue of someone in this regard, then there are any number of other prominent politicians who would fit the billing to the title of this post, then the name of Boris Johnson would automatically spring to mind. (likewise Hilary Benn, and many many others.)

    The House of Commons is full of its fair share of personalities whose main claim to fame is their own narcissism.

  8. H.S. says:

    Canada to model post-Brexit Britain trade on CETA

    ”Britain is Canada’s largest trading partner in Europe and can take advantage of CETA as long as it remains a part of the EU.

    Post-Brexit, May said : “I’m pleased that we have agreed today that CETA should be swiftly transitioned to form a new bilateral arrangement between the UK and Canada.”

    [...]

    Trudeau cautioned that Ottawa would respect EU rules against direct negotiations with individual EU member states, as long as Britain remains in the EU.

    But he added that he wants “a smooth transition that keeps the essence of CETA applicable to the UK.”

    “We want to see as little disruption to economies and to people’s lives and that is why we believe it makes sense to take (CETA), which the UK is a part of, (and use) that as the basis for a bilateral relationship with the UK,” Trudeau said.

    The two leaders also announced closer cooperation on development, disaster responses, the environment – with May confirming a British phase out of coal by 2025, and both prime ministers announcing a memorandum of understanding allowing for greater private sector “clean economy” partnerships – and defence and security.

    May also offered her support for Canada in its dispute with US aircraft manufacturer Boeing, which has accused Montreal-based Bombardier of selling its new CSeries passenger jet in the United States for less than it costs to make them.

    The company alleges that government subsidies allow Bombardier to sell the CSeries at cut rates, undercutting its own 737 passenger jets.

    “For the United Kingdom, Bombardier jobs in Northern Ireland are important and we want to protect those,” May said. Bombardier employs 4,200 workers at a Belfast plant making CSeries wing and fuselage parts.

    Both May and Trudeau said they planned to bring up the case again with US President Donald Trump this week.

    Trudeau also said Ottawa would cancel a planned purchase of Boeing Super Hornet fighter jets if the company did not back down.

    [...]

    May and Trudeau also expressed jointly the need for Myanmar leader Aung San Suu Kyi to “de-escalate” tensions in her country and take measures to protect vulnerable Rohingya Muslims.

    The military has been accused of driving out more than 410,000 Rohingya Muslims from mainly Buddhist Myanmar to neighbouring Bangladesh in an orchestrated “ethnic cleansing” campaign.”

    https://www.bilaterals.org/?canada-to-model-post-brexit

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
    , @anon
    , @TT
  9. pyrrhus says:

    I’m not sure that the Brits have what it takes to overcome a leadership that consists largely of traitors and idiots…If the UK simply told the EU that it’s over, and if you want trade, fine, if you don’t your goods will be subject to 100% tariffs, all this nonsense would go away.

  10. Britain is still powerful enough to dictate to Ireland. The leftist fears conflict and thus invites aggression. If the Irish knew the British hesitate to **** them up, they would think twice of talking back.

    How does he think Ireland became part of the British Empire in the first place? Was it whinging anti-nationalist lefties like Cockburn?

  11. pyrrhus says:
    @H.S.

    Obviously Burma has a lot more sense than the UK and Canada, especially considering the Rohingya’s foolish attacks on Buddhist villages in Burma….

  12. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @H.S.

    Canada is even further down the path of racial and demographic ruin then Britain.

  13. After the 2008 banking crash I thought that the Irish – Sinn Fein in partuclar – would stand up to the bankers seeking blood and to the bondholders of criminal outfits like the Anglo-Irish Bank.

    However, they have embraced austerity and even as the flower of their youth began to flee abroad – like a second potato famine exodus – they went for public spending cuts and the semi-privatisation of services like water.

    I don’t think that even if we Brits went full retard on the border that the Irish would react in any noticeable way. They are far too happy embracing multiculturalism, gay marriage, abortion, polyamorousness and the other emblems of cultural degradation.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  14. The Northern Irish voted to remain. We should cut them off and leave them to sort out their status with the South. Let them have an Ireland within the EU and outside of English taxpayer support.
    The English have voted to leave and the traitorous vermin in parliament are holding our departure up.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Bill Jones
  15. TT says:
    @H.S.

    These Western leaders led by US are the team of evils behind the whole Myanmar Rohingya crisis. Haven’t you notice and wonder why a sudden intense outpouring of entire Western msm 24/7 reporting …with the USNato countries and their allied Muslim countries(Saudi and Turkey) gone hysteria overdrive in calling for UN immediate intervention, claiming the worst Genocide, Ethnic Cleansing of century? Ironically these are the same countries committing naked genocide directly or indirectly in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya…without their usual “humanity”.

    Read these:
    1. Why US &Saudi is backing Rohingya suddenly

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/why-u-s-and-saudi-arabia-back-rohingya-in-myanmar/5613015

    2. Who is responsible for the direct killing

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/who-is-responsible-for-ethnic-cleansing-in-myanmar/5611486

    3. Rohingya pawns of US & Saudi.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-rohingya-of-myanmar-pawns-in-an-anglo-chinese-proxy-war-fought-by-saudi-jihadists/5607605

    I have traveled and lived in Myanmar for more than a decade, its a very peaceful and safe country so resource rich yet make so poor by decades of West sanction.

    The problem is people are brainwashed and fed with fake msm news the whole life, believing without ever travel to see themselves.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @polskijoe
  16. @Tsar Nicholas

    ” They (the Irish) are far too happy embracing multiculturalism, gay marriage, abortion, polyamorousness, and the other emblems of cultural degradation”

    Yeah the leftist takeover of Ireland is a phenomena to behold, as they worship BO even moreso than the crazy Germans, which seems almost impossible

    My father was born in Belfast of Scotch-Irish ancestry, and with his two brothers moved to the US early twenties, so I am quite familiar with Irish mentality, the demise of the home of the greatest wordsmiths being a loss for all ages.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro Jazz musician.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  17. FRAN says: • Website

    It is what the xxx wants and in here USA. You are not permitted to discuss in public! Oy veh ist mir!

  18. FRAN says:

    It is what they want!!! I am not a neocon!

  19. TT says:

    Indeed UK is a declining country like France, still harbouring the delusion of great empire, always overbearing itself in the global affairs. Many view it more like a lackey of US to continue their evil imperialism over weaker countries. But UK seem happy with its hunting dog role to share war spoils.

    The declination of education and health care support/standard are signs of a nation declining, further aggravated by the bad governing in diverting budget from essential to non constructive areas like war expedition. US is a mirror of UK with more obvious. Brexit will make UK decline at faster speed when it lose the common market esp financial center role.

    To booster economy by indiscriminately applying Weapon of Mass Migration as in many countries including Singapore is most foolish way to destroy one’s country. Yes Gdp goes up, country become more powerful, but at what cost to the nation and social fabric? Do original British become more wealthy and happy, more welfare and social harmony, or get marginalized by overwhelming cheap labours of diverse non integrating social/culture/religion? This is akin to wishing to make one’s household income higher, one open up the family house to bring in all strangers. And the family members who work hard to pay the house have to share everything with strangers to their discomfort and safety even the new comers may contribute to pay some bills or do some cleaning.

    I didn’t mean to discriminate immigrants, but it has to be very selective and in proportion bringing in talents one lack, not influx of cheap labour or refugees to make one country younger populated, even rule by them eventually. Country should not run like a corporate business because its what the citizens called HOME.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @polskijoe
  20. @TT

    Rohingya only became an issue of “Western Humanitarian Concern”® when it became clear that Chinese OBOR included Myanmar in a meaningful way that shuts out US plans for that country.

    • Replies: @TT
  21. @Super Siddo

    I’m American, not English, so this is not for me to decide, but you seem to be right. Your proposal would indeed be in the interest of the English people if it would result in a Parliament that honored the wishes of the voters and effectuated your departure from the EU ASAP.

    If you don’t get out of the EU, you’ll never be able to regain control of your borders and immigration policy, which means endless Third World immigration. (Sadly, it increasingly looks like we here in the States will need to allow or force California, south Texas, etc., to leave the USA, if we are not to suffer a similar fate. It’s almost too late here too, given the wide dispersal of Mexicans and others into once safe and beautiful heartland communities in Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and in the Southeast e.g. North Carolina and Georgia etc.)

    Without Northern Ireland in the UK, would the English, Scottish, and Welsh have the sense and the balls to end Third World immigration? To reverse the Islamization of England by expelling Muslims who are already there? I hope so.

    By the way, what is your impression of Scottish and Welsh opinion re the need to expel Muslims? Do you encounter Scots and Welshmen and have the chance to talk about these things honestly? I had read that Scots were terribly PC and that the SNP folks in particular would keep their borders just as open to the third world and Muslims if ever seceded from the U.K. Is that your sense of it?

  22. @Authenticjazzman

    Yes, it is sad, and maddening, to behold, in equal proportions.

    On a flight from DC to LA a couple months ago, I sat next to an Irishman (from “the republic”, now settled in the USA with an American wife) and had a long conversation “covering the waterfront.” He was a typical Irishman with the gift for gab and storytelling, funny, endearing if a bit too forward at times. He was intelligent and well versed on many topics that interest me, including languages, history, historical migration patterns, politics, comparison of different cultures.

    But when it came to the islamic takeover of the U.K., it was almost like trying to reason with a modern German. Like we lived on different planets where the events reported daily even in establishment media weren’t reported wherever he was.

    He didn’t acknowledge certain facts but then try to argue that I wasn’t weighing various pieces of evidence right, or that I was proposing solutions too extreme for the magnitude or nature of the problem. Rather, he acted as if things we both know are happening daily, aren’t happening at all. He had a “don’t be paranoid, everything will work out fine” attitude that didn’t fit with his clear intelligence and substantive knowledge of history and current affairs. I enjoyed meeting him and we have kept up occasionally, but it was hopeless on the topics that truly matter.

  23. @Lemurmaniac

    Within twenty years’ time, the only thing today’s “England” is likely to impose on Ireland is Islam.

    If England needs to let Northern Ireland go in order to have a solid consensus for ending third world immigration and expelling Muslims, so be it. I doubt that the English are willing to do what it takes to avoid submission to Islam, but anything that makes it possible should be done, including perhaps jettisoning Northern Ireland.

    How extreme a pro-eu (and therefore pro-third world immigration) influence is Northern Ireland on the U.K.? Without Northern Ireland, would the rest of the U.K. (excluding London) really be fairly unified about driving the Muslim invaders out?

  24. @RadicalCenter

    Wales is for more PC than Scotland. The Labour party has never been challenged since the foundation of the Welsh Assembly. Cardiff has the oldest mosque in the UK. Welsh Universities punch well above their weight because they have disproportionately attracted bright students from Commonwealth countries since their foundation, especially Malaysia and Hong Kong. Also the UAE and for the last few decades, Japan. My last summer intern from the business school was Bangladeshi. The rabble are the descendants of English and Irish immigrants who arrived between 1880 and 1926. We didn’t get the best. Wales shifted from practically teetotal to hard drinking thanks to these people.

    • Replies: @Tsar Nicholas
  25. TT says:
    @The Alarmist

    Yah i too realized that. Infact countries listed in the Obor are seemed to be inillegal migrants from crosshair now, either enjoying a regime change or some kind of terrorists wars. And many fakes US msm news showing photos of Rohingya refugees with their face nicely decorated with Myanmar traditional wood paste(tanaka). Who will find time to carry a wood block and a big grinding stone to make that paste when running from raping and slaughtering army?

    Then MSM quoted their gruesome stories and photos were send from refugees mobile, who was camped in a tiny bare island of Bangladesh with no electricity or water. Didn’t know these refugees are better equipped than us with US Satellite phones capable of broadband data roaming in nobody’s island. Just like IsIs and those fake Syrian children capable of uploading their YouTube videos regularly in battlefield and destroyed cities under gov army siege, using broadband wifi compliment of USNato.

    Many Burmese told me there is no Rohingya, its a name cooked up by MSM, all are illegal migrants from Bangladesh aka Bengali who seek independent in oil rich Rakhaine previously. But one Burmese told the army might try to use this terrorists attacked of police posts as opportunity to drive back these Bangladeshi(many are brought in by British to kill Burmese in colonized time, some are terrorists). They tried to repatriate peacefully back to Bangladesh decades ago but UN persuaded them not to.

    One Moscow researcher wrote that in India northern there are 20Mil similar illegal Chittagong migrants which India wanted to forcefully push back, a real nightmare crisis to dwaf Rohingya. Its called Weapon of Mass Migration, when they multiply profusely and stay long enough, they will declare independent with your country land or become majority voting bank to rule over.

  26. dfordoom says: • Website
    @TT

    Do original British become more wealthy and happy, more welfare and social harmony, or get marginalized by overwhelming cheap labours of diverse non integrating social/culture/religion?

    As far as the British political establishment is concerned the fact that their policies cause misery for the original British is a feature, not a bug. I doubt that there has ever been a political establishment anywhere that has had the same degree of contempt for its own people.

    The secret of course is that the members of the British political establishment do not see ordinary Britons as being their people. They don’t even consider them to be fully human.

    • Replies: @TT
  27. dfordoom says: • Website
    @RadicalCenter

    If you don’t get out of the EU, you’ll never be able to regain control of your borders and immigration policy, which means endless Third World immigration.

    Sadly Brexit won’t make the slightest difference, or if anything will make the situation worse. The entire British political establishment is absolutely committed to the destruction of Britain.

    Without Northern Ireland in the UK, would the English, Scottish, and Welsh have the sense and the balls to end Third World immigration?

    What the English, Scottish, and Welsh people think or want is of zero interest to the British government. And has been of zero interest to every British government for the past century or so.

  28. polskijoe says:

    Ive always had mixed feelings on UK.
    England has a problem of the Rothschilds, Freemasonry, and maybe the monarchy (although the monarchs seem to be divided).
    Scotland seperates are largely liberal / left wing right?
    Dont know much about North Ireland.

    UK at least had the balls to vote leave EU. I respect that.

    I would wish Europe (all of it) was cooperating but its not happening.

    Nigel Farage had criticized the Zionists in USA, and then a few days later he attacked Soros.
    Thats even better.

  29. polskijoe says:
    @TT

    The Anglo speaking nations like to use Muslims for all sorts of purposes.
    Even Germany is now convinced by adding the Kalergi plan.

    I would guess those Muslims in Myanmar are proxy army against Asian buddhists.

  30. polskijoe says:
    @TT

    UK maybe declining (in morals, culture, racial matters).
    And during WW2, they lost their domination.

    But in the UK there is actually a segment of elites like Farage who
    dislike Zionists and Globalists. Thats quite rare in todays world.

    I know the Anglos have a history of divide and conquer (still to this day),
    but maybe they have some positive hope in UK (compared to the US which is completely Zionist by now)?

    • Replies: @TT
  31. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Fredrik

    Don’t forget ‘you’ have promised Ireland to keep the border open but ‘you’ have also promised Leave voters to close the very same border. You can have one but not both.

    An old trick from Algorithmics:

    It can be solved by throwing a fair coin whenever passage is needed. Head, open. Tail, not open.

  32. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Thanks to Merkel, Britain’s border with Ireland is also Britain’s border with Syria. It will be closed. The Irish should complain to Berlin not London about this.

  33. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    This whole BREXIT caper is a bloody mess that should never have occurred. To quote Richard Dawkins; “I voted remain but don’t understand the issues and should never have been asked”.
    I too remember what Britain was like before 1972, and I can promise you it was a complete bloody shambles, membership of the EEC was the final desperate act to try and get some semblance of sense into British political and economic life.
    The talk of “Global Britain” is delusional to the point of low comedy. Britain couldn’t pull that off in 1880 when it ruled 1/3rd of the world.
    Look honestly at your situation, you have a food deficit, a fuel deficit, a technology deficit, a trade/technical skills deficit, a work ethic deficit and financially a huge current account deficit and a massive trade deficit. what standard of living Britons enjoy today has largely been achieved by issuing huge amounts of debt.
    The catastrophic policy of allowing, actually encouraging, huge 3rd immigration into Britain was a bi-partisan home grown policy and nothing to do with the EU. One result of this policy is that the average IQ of the population of England has declined by at least one standard deviation in the last 40 years. The result is that you don’t now have the brains needed to prosper.
    There some areas in which Britain is a world leader; drug and alcohol abuse, illegitimacy, welfare usage and crime.
    The claims of “regained sovereignty” are equally laughable; when did Westminster/Whitehall ever give a rat’s rear end about the people of Britain?
    What excites Westminster/Whitehall is keeping the UK at least nominally together because the permanent seat on the UNSC is held by “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and NI”. Lose the UK and they lose the seat which is their greatest opportunity to “punch above their weight”, such is the real priority of the W/W clique.

    • Replies: @anon
  34. TT says:
    @dfordoom

    That’s right, politicians and economists ruling the country is taking human factor just as a parameter in economic equation akin to business. Many countries are falling into this popular idea of using indiscriminate WMM to repopulate their aging nation as a quick easy solution.

    What becomes of UK, if its majority becomes say South Asians and Middle Easts(not saying they are bad, only of highest emigration flow now), even having a Pakistani London Mayor or better a first Indian PM with house of mix migrants MPs? The country might become young with growing population, vibrant with new housing demands and gov spending artificially jacking up GDP, attracting new MNCs investment with its suppressed abundant cheap labour.

    UK is just another restructured profitable corporate, after replacing its less productive highly paid aging old guards with new young workers, who will take over as future management….

    Welcome to the new world order of UK Corporation. Sound like US Inc. is duplicating its successful business model to EU and whole world.

  35. TT says:
    @polskijoe

    Farage has been ridiculed and projected as a clown by Western msm to the world, didn’t know he is someone British intellects see as a hope. Yes UK does has many hard and soft powers to be a great country, in high tech, rich cultural history, education, finance, with many talents and language advantages, but its US/bank controlled gov and US lackey mentality is ruined it to no hope imo (sorry) unless some independent thinking leader emerge to Save the Queen. But Neocon and Zionist with its controlled Washington and London won’t allow such leaders to arise. That is West cherished “democracy” isn’t it, a system manipulated by capitalist to put their chosen men for voters to pick the less evil one.

    UK indeed has wide range of real good technologies in jet engines, aerospace, metallurgy, chemicals, machine tools, precisions, electronics, automobiles, etc., with great R&D capability if it can produce things like state of arts fighter planes, submarines and aircraft carriers.

    But instead of like Germany collaborate with China to fuel its own engineering growth, UK choose to shut down its Rover auto(refuse China offer), sell away its Jaguar auto to India Tata with no big domestic market, Lotus auto to Malaysia Proton,..etc. These are British refine craftsmanship autos, what a waste that they didn’t flourish using big China market power. It rather collaborate with US in blocking out China all access to tech, to its own losses.

    In 2013 export ranking,
    China(1355Mil pp)- $2.2T
    Germany(80Mil pp)- $1.5T on par with US(318Mil pp)
    UK(63Mil pp)- $813B
    Japan(127Mil pp) $700B.

    In term of export/population, UK is real impressive, making US/Japan look weak. But Germany is truly powerhouse to near double UK with wide range of high tech export. China is poorest among all, exporting mainly low quality goods.

    So UK actually has great potential in high tech & manufacturing like Germany that it continued to squander away. This is one area that can bring good pay stable job, to compliment its powerful financial center and service sector that may risk drifting to Germany or France after Brixit. But under self bloated arrogant, colonist mindset PM May, we shall see what damage she can aggravate for UK in Brixit crisis before loosing power.

    Another 10yrs UK will lost all its edge when China catch up. Only Germany is well positioned to continue dominate high tech engineering, funding its R&D with big profits make from China joint venture. If EU and Germany are not self destroyed by their foolish refugee migrants policy over next 2decades, Germany is likely to emerge as Washington of USofEurope, with tremendous power and influence. France is much worst than UK, a arrogant declining colonial power not knowing its limit, awaiting to be humiliated and get obsolete.

  36. Think you are forgetting about who and what is really behind Brexit, namely 17.4 million people who are fully aware of how difficult it will be to extricate ourselves from the beachtar relationship with the EU, fully aware of how many vested interests (including yours, it seems) will do everything they can to halt and reverse the referendum decision.
    And that is the amazing thing about Brexit – that those 17.4 million have not just gone back to sleep but are fully involved in this unfolding drama, and are considering their position should they have to intervene, fully aware of potential for the economy taking a hit, and still willing to do whatever the hell they can to end this enslavement to a corrupt power. Rule Britannia!

  37. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Why do you think the reason was they wanted all that 3rd world immigration? I am curious? I note you say it was bi-partisan, but they all became Labour voters. Strange.

    • Replies: @Fredrik
    , @dfordoom
  38. Didi says:

    I live in Houston, USA. When I drive around my city I see numerous cars of Japanese, German, Korean, Italian brands and a smattering of Swedish brands too. I rarely see a Jaguar or any other British car. What on Earth is this Great Britain and its Brexit? Does Rolls still make cars?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  39. @Super Siddo

    Years- the last time I saw them published, ago the numbers were, for every Thousand paid in taxes expenditure was 1,350 in NI, 1,200 in Wales, 1,100 in Scotland and 850 in England.

    Fuckem all.

  40. Fredrik says:
    @anon

    You see this in the US too. The Republicans want open borders even though the vast majority of the immigrants will vote for the other party.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  41. @Didi

    The British car industry was destroyed when a bastard giant conglomerate- British Leyland was created and nationalized in the 60′s/70′s.

    For decades the UK government had used subsidies to ship car jobs into places they never should have been- My native Liverpool for example, if ever there was a bunch of fuckers unsuitable for production line work, it is the Scousers.

    The high end stuff is still superb: Aston Martin, McClaren, if you’ve got a couple mill to drop. Rolls and Bentley owned by Krauts I believe.

  42. polskijoe says:
    @Fredrik

    The majority of conservative elites in the West,
    are about money, and wars (keeping the empire). (they resort to wars, drug smuggling, importing immigrants, hidden projects).

    The old conservative mentality is largely gone. So the neocons, care less about middle class and tradition

    It seems money is king for most major two dominating left-right political groups in the West.
    (I refer to countries from Germany to US)

    • Replies: @A. D.
  43. A. D. says:
    @polskijoe

    London: Parasites’ Paradise (Or the Best Criminal Sanctuary Money Can Buy)

    Dr James Petras |

    ‘The global economic crisis is a boon for London’s high end real estate corporations, as overseas millionaires and billionaires, tax evaders, political raiders of the public treasury,abandon pillaged economies and pour billions into mansions and penthouses. Super-rich rentier monarchists from the despotic Gulf States join Russian commodity speculators,and new rich Chinese sweatshop owners in bidding up London properties in prestigious postal codes in Belgravia (Ebury Street, Eton Place, and Eton Square) Knightbridge, Mayfair (Park Street). Corpulent Russian oligarchs and pious Saudi royalty loll in country estates in, Hertfordshire, Herefordshire and Cheshire overlooking their elegant English gardens and enjoy the purring and caresses of their very upscale British courtesans, in one or another of the two dozen bedrooms. The British government’s tolerance and open minded attitude to Russian and Albanian gangster oligarchs, whose bloody ascent to wealth can match any Sicilian godfathers, greases the wheels for the rise of what the Financial Times chooses to call, the real estate ‘industry’, bankrolled by the financial ‘community’ and aligned with the insurance ‘investors’.

    The predators international, take their afternoon tea at 4 p.m., sherry at 6:30 p.m. They are entertained by the gossip of Her Majesty’s Court and the Queen’s Anniversary Celebration and indulge in the sporting life (soccer teams over polo horses). They cultivate a taste for culture. Accompanied by Oxbridge experts they shop for “collectibles” – paintings at Ordovas on Saville Row, Richard Nagy on Old Bond Street, Frank Auerbach at the Malborough, sculpture in Jean & Luc Baroni at St. James and jewelry shops for a Vacheron Constatin. ”

    https://www.newsbud.com/2012/10/16/london-parasites-paradise-or-the-best-criminal-sanctuary-money-can-buy/#more-16421

  44. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    Why do you think the reason was they wanted all that 3rd world immigration? I am curious? I note you say it was bi-partisan, but they all became Labour voters. Strange

    You’re making the mistake of thinking Britain has two major political parties and that democracy is a real thing.

    Britain has one political elite. Representative democracy was invented to ensure that real democracy would never happen, that the people would never have a real say, and that the elite would never be challenged. John Major, Tony Blair, David Cameron, Theresa May. All interchangeable. Parliament is a puppet show to keep the masses docile.

    And with that huge tidal wave of Labour voters what has happened? The Conservatives have just won three consecutive elections. And have pursued the same policies as Tony Blair. It’s all theatre. Parliament is like the British monarchy. Theatre.

    Britain has the most vicious corrupt political class in the western world. And the most passive subservient population.

    If you regard Nigel Farage as the British Trump let’s see how well the two of them have done. Trump became President. Farage’s party at its peak got a miserable 12% of the vote and Farage couldn’t even win a seat in Parliament.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
    , @anon
    , @Gabriel Oak
  45. polskijoe says:
    @dfordoom

    There is a differnt with Nigel and Trump.
    Nigel clearly openly slammed the Zionists in US
    Trump openly works for them.

  46. H. S. says:

    The RSF says

    Brexit debacle

    ”If or when the Brexit deadline is reached, and Britain actually leaves the EU, the Unionists should be aware from the experience of history, that the Westminster government will look after England first with jobs, infrastructure and investment; all other areas will be well down the pecking order. The British Tories have a long history of “playing the orange card” for their own advantage. ”

    By number1admin on Nollaig 6, 2017

    https://republicansinnfein.org/2017/12/06/brexit-debacle/

    Will the EU be used as a football field to launch projectiles at THE enemy (Russia) following the Brexit (12 new Nato military bases in Europe):

    26-County state signs up to EU army

    ”Another significant step towards the 26-County state’s participation in an EU army was taken with the Leinster House vote on December 7, 2017, in approving and signing up to PESCO, the EU’s military Defence pact. This marks further dilution of the neutrality of the 26-County state, opening the way for the absorption of the 26 Counties into the military force of an EU superstate.

    A century ago John Redmond and the constitutional nationalist elite urged Irish youth to sacrifice themselves in the charnel house that was the imperialist First World War in the 21st Century. It seems the 26-County political establishment is prepared to sacrifice this and future generations in the interests of the new imperialism of the EU.”

  47. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Why do you think it is the British population is so passive and subservient? The class system? Some peculiar cultural flaw in their character? I am genuinely curious?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  48. @dfordoom

    If you regard Nigel Farage as the British Trump let’s see how well the two of them have done. Trump became President. Farage’s party at its peak got a miserable 12% of the vote and Farage couldn’t even win a seat in Parliament.

    As I am sure you are aware, (but for the benefit of readers who may not be aware) we have a Parliamentary system in the UK which members of parliament (MPs) from the party with the most MPs selects the Prime Minister (PM).

    We do not have a Presidential System.

    This means that in order to become Prime Minister one has not only to be a member of the party with the most MPs but also be sufficiently popular with MPs within that party.

    There is no way that the Labour Party or Conservative Party (the only two parties that have a chance of forming a government) would ever let Nigel Farage join them let alone support him in becoming PM.

    If however, we had a Presidential System and Nigel Farage could some how become a member of either the Labour or Conservative parties, AND if he had sufficient finance to back him, I would have thought Nigel Farage would have a better chance of becoming President of the UK than Trump had of becoming President of the USA.

    I have been a royalist for many years for the simple reason that I would prefer the Queen as head of state than President Branson or President Blair. However, when the Queen eventually dies and we get King Charles or King William, President Farage might begin to seem a very attractive alternative.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  49. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    When I say bi-partisan I do not mean that the leaders of the Labour and Conservative parties sat down and agreed to the policy. What I mean is that each party had it’s own reasons for supporting the policy. Labour certainly gained new voters, the Conservatives undermined the working class and essentially rendered them powerless while introducing millions of unskilled people into the labour force, thus driving down wages and increasing profits.
    As dfordoom says; don’t think that Britain actually has a working representative government, it doesn’t, the House of Commons is a pantomime, like the royal family. Real power in Britain is held by a Westminster/Whitehall clique who are essentially of the 1%. Political attitudes of the population and Govt. agencies/Quangos are formed by such groups as “Common Purpose” and “Momentum”.
    The “Conservative” party exists to preserve privilege and the class system and in that they have been incredibly successful. Indeed they have discovered the invaluable trick of providing welfare benefits and life subsidies, such as the NHS, which firmly entrench the mass of the population into serfdom. There is no political party in Britain that espouses freedom, liberty or personal responsibility. Such a platform would get next to zero support, what lower class Britons want is benefits and free stuff, what the upper class wants is perpetual class privilege.
    A similar situation exists in the US, where mass unskilled immigration, particularly from Mexico and Central/South America serves the different purposes of both political parties.

  50. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    Why do you think it is the British population is so passive and subservient? The class system? Some peculiar cultural flaw in their character? I am genuinely curious?

    I don’t really know. I’m sure the class system plays a role.

    Mainly I think it’s because the ruling class consolidated its position after the Glorious Revolution and they never faced a serious challenge. They initially used anti-Catholic paranoia to keep the masses in line. They were always good at making use of some bogeyman to terrify the ordinary people – the French served that function, Napoleon was particularly useful, then the Russians (there was a level of Russophobia in 19th century Britain that defies belief), then the Germans (the naval hysteria of the first decade of the 20th century). Wonderfully handy for distracting the masses from domestic issues. The Irish Question was useful as well.

    And they were very clever. They created a system of representative democracy that was neither representative not democratic. It was designed to maintain the plutocracy in power and ensure that no actual opposition could emerge. British politics has always been theatre. Churchill changed parties as often as he changed his underwear. From the early stages of the First World War up until 1945 most British governments were coalition governments. There was no actual political opposition.

    Meanwhile the masses were fed a steady stream of propaganda about Britain being the only free country, the land where a man’s home was his castle. And the glories of the British legal system, which in fact always served the purpose of protecting the interests of the rich and powerful. Britons were constantly told how free they were compared to those nasty greasy foreigners like the French.

    There was also the Empire, which gave Britons the vicarious thrill of ruling half the globe (even though most of the Empire wasn’t worth having). And then they were told that they pretty much single-handedly beat Hitler (although in reality Britain lost the war).

    How could you think of seriously questioning the British establishment when Britannia ruled the waves and the sun never set on the British Empire, and we won the war didn’t we?

    The British people became accustomed to passive acceptance of rule by their betters.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Anonymous
  51. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Gabriel Oak

    This means that in order to become Prime Minister one has not only to be a member of the party with the most MPs but also be sufficiently popular with MPs within that party.

    The bottom line though is that UKIP represented a clear alternative to the major parties and only 12% of the voters voted for it. That has to be considered as a spectacular political failure.

    I think Nigel is a great guy and I’d have voted for him. But the British people in their infinite wisdom rejected him utterly.

    If however, we had a Presidential System and Nigel Farage could some how become a member of either the Labour or Conservative parties, AND if he had sufficient finance to back him

    Which of course never was going to happen and never will happen. The British political establishment is very good at making sure that political outsiders have absolutely no chance. And just having sufficient finance wouldn’t help. He’d have the entire media establishment including the BBC against him.

    I have been a royalist for many years for the simple reason that I would prefer the Queen as head of state than President Branson or President Blair.

    I’m a monarchist for the same reason, but in my case it’s the fear of President Turnbull. And Turnbull is a fanatical republican and I have no doubt that the idea of becoming President Turnbull has crossed his mind.

  52. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    Thank you. I appreciate your insights.

  53. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    This doesn’t explain why similar attitudes exist among the Dutch, Germans, Scandinavians. All NW Europeans are too trusting of their rulers. Any Spaniard or Italian knows his rulers are scoundrels who only want to exploit him, but this sentiment is rarely found in northern Europe. I don’t know the reason for this.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
    , @dfordoom
  54. @Philip Owen

    Where I live Welsh is not widely spoken but the attitude of those who are supposed to be defending the Welsh language is instructive. I am talking of the so-called Party of Wales, Plaid Cymru.

    Plaid will do anything to appear left wing and progressive, to the extent even of welcoming a job advertisment in Carmarthen that asks for Polish speakers (breaking the various acts on equality and also the Welsh Language Act). The Welsh speaking communities of the North and the West will never be protected by the “PC-PC” lunatics because it might actually entail action in favour of one linguistic group and against another, restriction of some property rights and so on.

    Most Welsh people are not bothered about the future of the Welsh language because they do not speak Welsh but what has happened to the language may point towards what the future holds in store for the English speakers.

    My maternal grandmother was born in a Welsh-speaking mining village in south Wales in 1892. She married a Welsh speaker from Pembrokeshire in 1910. Yet none of their eight children or their children spoke Welsh. My grandmother spoke Welsh and read a Welsh Bible until she died in the 1970s, but so far as the family was concerned it was linguistic genocide in one generation.

    English speakers in the rest of these islands should take note.

  55. @RadicalCenter

    @RC. The Scots had a chance to vote for Independence and spurned it. They know where their bread is buttered and need the support of the English taxpayers.
    All the English I spoke to would have liked to vote in the Scottish independence vote and would have voted for them to leave.

    All the English and Welsh that I know and spoke to were amazed that Wales votes to leave the EU.

    The Scottish and Welsh working class are against mass immigration as it destroys their jobs, earnings, communities etc.
    In the UK, it is only the progressive loony left that supports the replacement of the White working class.

    The political classes in the UK disregard the voters and act in their party/own interests and will keep the immigrants coming to smash white identity and any chance of solidarity that will bring an end to their corruption.

    • Replies: @polskijoe
  56. polskijoe says:
    @Anonymous

    I will give two possible theories.

    The North was rarely invaded in modern times. They became passive and rich.
    When you are peaceful and passive, you start to become more “tolerant” and admit foreigners.
    Which in large number becomes destructive. Canada and somewhat US are other examples.

    Another reason is Freemasonry or Libertarian and/or Liberal thinking.
    Those groups prefer money to favoring any religion. You start by letting in Catholics,
    then Jews, then Muslims,then Hindus or whatever. Those first generations will usually vote left wing or liberal to support their own group. Then you get lots of lobbies masking the hidden hand.

  57. polskijoe says:
    @Super Siddo

    Do a lot of Scotts have known or recent English ancestry?
    I bet those would be more likely to remain in UK.

    You can still trade without EU.
    Scots are more left wing ecomically right? (maybe you can explain).

    And yes UK Tory and Labour elites want immigration.
    But the average Tory voter may want much much less?

    • Replies: @Super Siddo
    , @Gabriel Oak
  58. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    This doesn’t explain why similar attitudes exist among the Dutch, Germans, Scandinavians. All NW Europeans are too trusting of their rulers. Any Spaniard or Italian knows his rulers are scoundrels who only want to exploit him, but this sentiment is rarely found in northern Europe. I don’t know the reason for this.

    Protestantism is a possible explanation. Protestants were more likely to embrace the lunacy of the Enlightenment. They were also much more likely to believe there was something sacred about democracy. They saw it as an alternative to the (perceived) wickedness of the Catholic Church. Democracy seemed more in tune with the Protestant idea of following your own conscience in religion rather than the authority of the Pope. Protestantism also made them more receptive to liberalism since liberalism was clearly fanatically anti-Catholic.

    The French are interesting. Nominally a Catholic country but after the Revolution anti-Catholicism became pretty much the state religion.

    The dominance of WASP elites in the United States up until the mid-20th century explains why Americans turned democracy into a cult and why they developed their insane worship of elected officials.

    Catholicism, like communism, acts as a partial vaccine against a naive faith in democracy.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  59. @dfordoom

    ” Lunacy of the enlightenment”.

    The “lunacy” of the enlightenment as you phrase it, led, early eighteen hundreds, to the elimination of :”Leibeigenschaft”, the German version of slavery, the situation of human ownership, the existance thereof which the US leftist edumacation system has obliterated from their history books, so as to give the impression that only blacks were victims of human ownership, and thus giving rise to the demands for reparations exclusively to black Americans. ”
    Actually almost every european fleeing to the US was escaping the conditions comparable to slavery”, if they were not titled as nobility : Von, etc, and this is what the leftist perfessors do not want the air-brained US students to become aware of.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro jazz musician.

  60. @polskijoe

    @PJ. Most of the Scots have Scottish ancestry many want independence and many wish to retain the status quo.
    Us English and Scots get on well and enjoy our rivalry in sport and the good hearted banter that goes with it. Though we are still proud of our histories and culture and wish to retain it.

    We can and will trade without the EU and they need our market more than we need theirs. They are not going to cut off trade with their biggest market in Europe.
    The Scots are definitely more left wing than the English.

    Most voters of both major parties want immigration massively reduced. We have had enough of being displaced and treated as second class citizens in our own lands.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  61. @Lemurmaniac

    “How does he think Ireland became part of the British Empire in the first place?”

    A lot of Norman barons, having conquered England a century before, decided to take some land in Ireland.

    Ireland has a lot more to lose economically than the UK if things get unpleasant. Most of their exports go to the UK.

    I hope that the relatively good relationship between UK and Eire over the last couple of decades will remain, and that Ireland won’t be suckered by the EU into a game of ‘let’s you and him fight’.

  62. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Super Siddo

    Most voters of both major parties want immigration massively reduced. We have had enough of being displaced and treated as second class citizens in our own lands.

    It makes no difference. Your political elite has never had the slightest interest in what the people want. You’re going to get mass immigration whether you want it or not. Brexit isn’t going to make any difference (if anything you’ll probably end up with more Third World immigration). It doesn’t matter which party is in power. The Tories hate ordinary Britons every bit as much as Labour does. Theresa May will betray you because she’s a Tory and that’s what Tories do.

    Britain’s only chance would be the elimination of the entire existing political establishment, including the Civil Service and the BBC. It ain’t gonna happen.

    Get out while you can.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  63. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Franklin Lamb is a CIA/Mossad/MI6 agent, like the ‘embedded journalists’ promoting traitor kurds, where counterpunch.com print his lies almost every week.

    We expose these traitors and liars all over the world. Look at the lies this CIA/Mossad agent is making at the insignificant counterpunch site, a front for intelligence services of the West.

    Another Cia/mossad agent that appears at this site is louis proyect a zionist/imperialist propagandist pose as ‘marxist’ who has supported destruction of the Muslim countries to benefit zionist dicks. This traitor still after Assad’s head to incorporate Golan height and Syria into the apartheid entity to benefit the criminal zionist jewish tribe.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12/29/bibis-iran-will-have-100-nukes-math/

  64. @dfordoom

    Will Australia take in English, Scottish, and Welsh people who flee the U.K. when Muslims gain enough political power or Street power to enforce sharia across England?

    After all, I think most people fleeing the U.K. will conclude that EUrabia is no longer an option.

    Will we see the spectacle of two million Englishmen seeking refuge in Poland? People in Poland complaining about Protestants and “English plumbers”?

  65. dfordoom says: • Website

    Will Australia take in English, Scottish, and Welsh people who flee the U.K. when Muslims gain enough political power or Street power to enforce sharia across England?

    I wouldn’t count on it. Naturally the Australian people would be happy to do so but the Australian people won’t be asked for their opinion.

    • Replies: @Talha
  66. Talha says:
    @dfordoom

    Hey dfordoom,

    Though I doubt we’ll be seeing Shariah-enforcement in the UK any time soon – and have no idea why the hell Muslims would want to impose Shariah on non-Muslims*. But let’s say this happens – who do you think is going to be fleeing a reconstituted patriarchal and religious society? And do you really want to take those kinds of people in?

    If one wants an analogy, visit Los Angeles near UCLA and see what kinds of people left Iran when the Revolution happened. You are most welcome to them.

    Peace.

    *Got news for people, it’s not our business if you want to drink yourselves or eat bacon to an early grave or destroy your communities with fornication and porn, you pay the price – not us. Since the earliest times, Muslim scholars have wanted to keep non-Muslims out of clogging up Shariah courts:

    Pro-tip: roll with it – be glad feminism will be crushed and demand semi-autonomous ethno-religious enclaves with maximum rights according to our tradition.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  67. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Talha

    but let’s say this happens – who do you think is going to be fleeing a reconstituted patriarchal and religious society? And do you really want to take those kinds of people in?

    I tend to agree. I certainly don’t want a bunch of whining British feminists and homosexuals. We have more than enough whining feminists and homosexuals of our own. We’d be likely to get the very people who have destroyed Britain.

    Pro-tip: roll with it – be glad feminism will be crushed

    I definitely agree with that.

    European societies like Sweden, Germany and Britain are failing because they’ve rotted from the inside. Liberals, feminists, homosexual activists, nutjob environmentalists and touchy-feely feminised Christians who have abandoned everything about Christianity except for the feelgood stuff have doomed those countries. The problem with Sweden, Germany and Britain is not the Muslims, it’s the Swedes, Germans and Britons.

    I don’t believe western civilisation can be saved and at this point I’m not at all sure I want to see it saved.

  68. @polskijoe

    Do a lot of Scotts have known or recent English ancestry?
    I bet those would be more likely to remain in UK.

    No. But a lot of Scots have known and recent(ish) Irish ancestry and they are the hard core of the SNP (Scottish National Party -independence from London/dependence on the EU). Scots of Irish ancestry are to a great extent settled in Glasgow and Glasgow voted for Scottish independence (from the UK – but to remain part of the EU). People with English ancestry settled in Edinburgh and Edinburgh is where historically most English immigrants to Scotland settled.

    According to the 1841 census, the Irish-born population of Scotland stood at 4.8%. Ten years later it increased to 7.2% as compared with 2.9% for England and Wales. Between 1841 and 1851 the Irish population of Scotland increased by 90%. Nevertheless, as the century progressed the numbers of Irish immigrants shrank to 3.7% in 1911. The census figures, however, only recorded those who were Irish-born, while children of Irish immigrants born in Scotland were classified as Scottish….

    English migrants settled in Scotland for industrial and commercial reasons. At each census until 1921 the number of England-born settlers increased from 1.5% in 1841 to 4% in 1921. As the 19th century continued, the number of English-born residents was higher than the Irish-born, particularly in Edinburgh. Edinburgh attracted the professionals who became involved in the industrial development of Scotland. Many of the early skilled workers and managers in the Scottish cotton industry were of English origin.

    http://www.johngraycentre.org/about/archives/brief-history-emigration-immigration-scotland-research-guide-2/

    People of Irish descent in the UK often make a point of retaining an Irish identity. For example, Seán Mac Stíofáin (17 February 1928 – 18 May 2001), born John Stephenson, was an English-born chief of staff of the Provisional IRA, a position he held between 1969 and 1972. Although this is not always the case, Tommy Robinson and Morrissey being good counter examples.

    However, the children of English immigrants tend to lose their identity. In one generation they would be proud Scots. Children of Irish immigrants on the other hand…

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