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Why Is Kim Jong Un Our Problem?
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“If China is not going to solve North Korea, we will.”

So President Donald Trump warns, amid reports North Korea, in its zeal to build an intercontinental ballistic missile to hit our West Coast, may test another atom bomb.

China shares a border with North Korea. We do not.

Why then is this our problem to “solve”? And why is North Korea building a rocket that can cross the Pacific and strike Seattle or Los Angeles?

Is Kim Jong Un mad?

No. He is targeting us because we have 28,500 troops on his border. If U.S. air, naval, missile and ground forces were not in and around Korea, and if we were not treaty-bound to fight alongside South Korea, there would be no reason for Kim to build rockets to threaten a distant superpower that could reduce his hermit kingdom to ashes.

While immensely beneficial to Seoul, is this U.S. guarantee to fight Korean War II, 64 years after the first wise? Russia, China and Japan retain the freedom to decide whether and how to react, should war break out. Why do we not?

Would it not be better for us if we, too, retained full freedom of action to decide how to respond, should the North attack?

During the August 2008 war between Russia and Georgia, despite John McCain’s channeling Patrick Henry — “We are all Georgians now!” — George W. Bush decided to take a pass on war. When a mob in Kiev overthrew the pro-Russian government, Vladimir Putin secured his Sebastopol naval base by annexing Crimea.

Had Georgia and Ukraine been in NATO, we would have been, in both cases, eyeball to eyeball with a nuclear-armed Russia.

Which brings us to the point:

The United States is in rising danger of being dragged into wars in half a dozen places, because we have committed ourselves to fight for scores of nations with little or no link to vital U.S. interests.

While our first president said in his Farewell Address that we might “trust to temporary alliances” in extraordinary emergencies, he added, “It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.”

Alliances, Washington believed, were transmission belts of war. Yet no nation in history has handed out so many war guarantees to so many “allies” on so many continents, as has the United States.

To honor commitments to the Baltic States, we have moved U.S. troops to the Russian border. To prevent China from annexing disputed rocks and reefs in the South and East China Seas, our Navy is prepared to go to war — to back the territorial claims of Tokyo and Manila.

Yet, our richest allies all spend less on defense than we, and all run trade surpluses at America’s expense.

Consider Germany. Last year, Berlin ran a $270 billion trade surplus and spent 1.2 percent of GDP on defense. The United States ran a $700 billion merchandise trade deficit and spent 3.6 percent of GDP on defense.

Angela Merkel puts Germany first. Let the Americans finance our defense, face down the Russians, and fight faraway wars, she is saying; Germany will capture the world’s markets, and America’s as well.

Japan and South Korea are of like mind. Neither spends nearly as much of GDP on defense as the USA. Yet, we defend both, and both run endless trade surpluses at our expense.

President Trump may hector and threaten our allies that we will not forever put up with this. But we will, because America’s elites live for the great game of global empire.

What would a true “America First” foreign policy look like?

ORDER IT NOW

It would restore to the United States the freedom it enjoyed for the 150 years before NATO, to decide when, where and whether we go to war. U.S. allies would be put on notice that, while we are not walking away from the world, we are dissolving all treaty commitments that require us to go to war as soon as the shooting starts.

This would concentrate the minds of our allies wonderfully. We could cease badgering them about paying more for their defense. They could decide for themselves — and live with their decisions.

In the Carter era, we dissolved our defense pact with Taiwan. Taiwan has survived and done wonderfully well. If Germany, Japan and South Korea are no longer assured we will go to war on their behalf, all three would take a long hard look at their defenses. The result would likely be a strengthening of those defenses.

But if we do not begin to rescind these war guarantees we have handed out since the 1940s, the odds are high that one of them will one day drag us into a great war, after which, if we survive, all these alliances will be dissolved in disillusionment.

What John Foster Dulles called for, over half a century ago, an “agonizing reappraisal” of America’s alliances, is long, long overdue.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of the new book “The Greatest Comeback: How Richard Nixon Rose From Defeat to Create the New Majority.”

Copyright 2017 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, North Korea 
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  1. Excellent commentary. I agree entirely, except that it seems to me Merkel acts as a vassal state of the yankee imperium rather than representing German interests, which are for a modus vivendi with Russia and the far east.

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  2. TheBoom says:

    Great column. I wish Trump would pay attention to what Washington said but he seems determined to show he is tough and to let the country be dragged into useless wars. Ever since W Bush we have been in a growing number of wars that don’t benefit the US. I had hoped Trump would change that pattern.

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  3. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    1. Jews hate North Korea because it may trade technology with Iran.

    2. US wants to maintain its imperial domination in the Pacific.

    3. China sees North Korea as buffer, esp. as South Korea agreed to THAAD missiles(really aimed at China).

    4. South Koreans are lowlife coward scum whores who hide behind Uncle Sam. With economy 40x that of North and twice the population, it still can’t defend itself. Compared to Sorks, Zionists in Israel are really though hombres. They defend Israel against all enemies.

    5. North Korea is ruled by moron regime but has legit reasons to fear US after Iraq and Libya.

    Btw, some news report said 80% of South Korons want to leave their country. Let them leave, and give South Korea to North Koreans since they still believe in Korea as nation.

    Problem solved.

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  4. venice12 says:

    “But if we do not begin to rescind these war guarantees….”

    Why don’t you? What interests do you have that prevents you from closing down all of your
    military bases without having to ask anyone for permission? The world population would be thankful.

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  5. North Korea is not of course our problem if by “our” you mean the people who occupy the land within the borders of the United States. Our problem is Imperial Washington. The very same problem that North Korea has.

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  6. Gapeseed says:

    The old saying “personnel is policy” has a corollary for military projection: “equipment is policy.” Our intentions are made clear by our multitudes of aircraft carrier groupings – force projectors which make it easy to swagger on the world’s stage and dole out protection guarantees. Never mind that carriers are easy to spot and almost impossible to defend against a First World adversary – a barrage of nuclear tip cruise missiles wouldn’t even have to score a direct hit to take out a fleet. We can protect ourselves from entanglement and our sailors from early death by changing the mix of spending options – fewer carriers, more subs! And while we’re at it, encourage Japan to remilitarize with some deterrent offensive capacity to provide a counterweight to Chinese ambitions. There is a happy medium between a purely defensive ward Japan and full Tojo – let’s find it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    Japanese is an unrepentant war criminal, and they have the most lethal military in the western Pacific, yet you call such deadly combination a purely defensive ward Japan? No wonder the American is calling bombing and killing on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention, having forward deployment military bases all over the world and a warmongering state that put the world in constant fear.
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  7. nickels says:

    The American government exists for the single reason of protecting the wealth of the landed financial elite.
    Like every dying state, the mad insanity to retain world hegemony, in the face of such an impossibility, leads to escalating insanity and eventual war and destruction.

    Trump is either an idiot, helpless, or in on it.

    I can no longer be an American patriot.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    So if it is a fact that our government protects the elite, and you can no longer be a patriot, what are you willing to do about this situation other than writing on a blog of your despair? What is your plan to topple those elites?

    Now, regarding the topic at hand, Patrick commented "He is targeting us because we have 28,500 troops on his border. If U.S. air, naval, missile and ground forces were not in and around Korea, and if we were not treaty-bound to fight alongside South Korea, there would be no reason for Kim to build rockets to threaten a distant superpower that could reduce his hermit kingdom to ashes."

    Mighty big IF's. And the reason why Kim would still build long-range missiles is to defend the borders of his country against any and all potential adversaries.

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  8. A NATO that never expanded beyond Germany would help keep the peace with Russia, but for reasons that are often misunderstood. The thing that any Russian statesman, including Putin, fears more than anything is a truly independent Germany, i.e. a Germany whose military is not constrained by the United States. Right now, Germany is more or less a pacifistic nation. However, who knows what happens if the influx of refugees accelerates, there’s some sort of economic collapse or some other shock. The last thing Russia wants is an angry Germany free to re-arm as it wishes and perhaps with nuclear weapons. As long as Germany is in NATO, and to a lesser extent the EU, it’s freedom to do that sort of thing is severely limited.

    I imagine that there’s a similar dynamic between Japan and China. While China sometimes saber rattles a bit against Japan when it wants to whip up public sentiment in one direction or another, it probably realizes that its security is ultimately guaranteed by the US’s de facto military dominance of Japan.

    Maintaining this dominance of Japan and Germany costs a pretty penny, but it has made another European war or another Sino-Japanese war seem unthinkable. Small price to pay I guess.

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    • Replies: @Joe Wong
    The Washington beltway warmongers has been explaining away their reckless wars, war crimes, crimes against peace and crimes against humanity like yours ever since WWII.
    , @El Dato
    The times of Tojo are over.

    WWII Japan could expand into a weak, fragmented and warlord-controlled China. It could (actually, had to, to break the US economic stranglehold) into the Pacific with low-tech, cheap & cheerful, barely past-iron-age wargear (and the story might have been over before it even started if some "looking the other way" shenanigans hadn't gone on regarding Pearl Harbor)

    These times are very gone.

    Any extensive aggro movement by Japan would make it a toasty critter in few hours.

    Same with Germany. And I don't see any reason for a confrontation between Germany and Russia either, the times of the Total Socialisms is gone, too. We hope. Might as well talk of another war between France and Germany. HAH! "Oh hey, we are in your capital in 15 minutes or so...."
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  9. Laura Lee says:

    It is our problem because The Donald (Biggus Dickus) wants some Real Carnage to his credit.

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  10. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “Why Is Kim Jong Un Our Problem?”

    Why is NK America’s problem?

    Same reason US is stuck with Israel/Palestine.

    If not for US meddling, there would have been no Israel. US made it and is stuck with it.

    Likewise, Korea would not have gotten divided if not for US request to USSR to enter North Asia. US offered all of Korea to Stalin and then changed the plan to dividing Korea. US policy created NK.

    Palestine was divided too, but Jews won the war and unified it by kicking Palestinians out.

    Korea was nearly united too under Kim Il Sung, but US intervened… and then it was nearly united under US… but then China entered and the division remained.

    And then, there was the long Cold War where US aided Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, South Vietnam, and Japan against communist China.

    So, we need some historical perspective here. North Korea exists only because of the US plan with USSR to divide Korea. And currently, the US holds onto South Korea as pawn against China. As for Jews, they are worried about Nork technology going to Arab nations.

    Given the history, it’s not easy for US to just walk away. And it doesn’t want to walk away since SK is a land base for US empire. Also, SK is a compliant puppet of the US, its Puerto Rico of Asia, not least because most Kor-Americans are such slavish collaborators of the empire(especially with the Democrats).

    I agree with Buchanan that it’s time for US to move out of SK, but the history needs to be addressed.
    Also, US foreign policy since end of Cold War also needs to be addressed: that the reason why NK got nukes is because the US has been the most invasive and aggressive power in the world. Also, given the lies behind Iraq war and destruction of Libya — and US aid to terrorists in Syria and its dirty tricks in Ukraine —, the US cannot be trusted. US, ruled by Jews, waged Wars for Jewish Globalism all over.

    Also, the US remains the lone nasty great power in the region.

    After all, China has okay relations with both NK and SK. Russia also has okay relations with NK and SK. But US insists on denouncing NK as ‘rogue nation’ while acting like biggest rogue nation in the world.

    China and Russia used to back NK against SK. No longer. But US insists on backing SK against NK even though the cold war is over and even though NK’s panicked tantrums are the result of US threats.

    It’s time for US to say “We regret forcing the division of Korea by colluding with Stalin. It caused much harm in Asia. But Cold War is over. SK has a much bigger economy and population. It should defend itself and work together for unification that is historically just. And US won’t interfere in improvement of relations between north and south.”

    But unification of Korea can mean the whole thing may tilt to China eventually, and that is something US doesn’t want. US sees SK like Woltz in Godfather saw that girl.

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    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @Amanda
    I agree w/your overall response. But in response to your comment about "If not for US meddling, there would be no Israel" I just wanted to add that it's worth looking into what Benjamin Freedman had to say about how Israel came about. He was there (he was assistant to Bernard Baruch, who was the Soros of yesterday), so he knows what happened.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8OmxI2AYV8&t=747s
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  11. dfordoom says: • Website

    because America’s elites live for the great game of global empire.

    And to be honest many ordinary Americans do so as well. Fixing domestic problems is complex and tedious and a lot of hard work. Foreign policy by contrast seems like it’s easy and fun – it’s all White Hats and Black Hats and naturally the Americans must be the White Hats. And when you’re the sole global superpower throwing your weight around and bullying other nations is fun. It’s like watching sport on TV only more exciting. Wars have become just another televised extreme sport.

    It’s not just the elites. Ordinary Americans cannot escape the responsibility for encouraging and enabling this kind of foreign policy recklessness.

    It’s unfortunate that for so many people Make America Great Again means starting more wars.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    It’s unfortunate that for so many people Make America Great Again means starting more wars.
     
    you too eh?

    here's a clue:

    the American people voted for Trump because he alone was against the wars

    the American people voted for Obama because he alone was against the wars

    the American people voted for Bush because he said, after the illegal bombing of Serbia, that he 'wasn't a nation builder'

    the American people voted for Nixon to get us out of the war

    the American people voted for Wilson and FDR because they promised to keep us out of the wars

    that every single time we are betrayed, doesn't change the fact that we always vote against the wars, OK? Capisce?

    do you think the American people want to see their children come home in boxes? Or in pieces?

    what kind of people do you think Americans are, monsters?

    consider.. the scumfucks have wanted to use American children for their cannon fodder for a long time now. They tried everything they could think of to get us motivated to slaughter Arabs and Persians in the 'holy' land now for generations. Nothing worked. We were too peace-loving. (not pacifists, but not murderous animals either) So ((they)) had to do their 'new Pearl Harbor' to cajole us into Endless Wars for Israel. OK? That's what it took. A massive, transformational false flag attack.

    we're just now starting to come to grips with the sheer momentous, treacherous and cowardly evil of that act.

    but my point is that Americans have a long history of not wanting to go to (contrived) wars (to benefit war-pig or Zionist) scumfucks. We always have to be betrayed and lied into these wars. And it's rather likely that your nation of origin or residency is any different, if it's in the Rothschild/Zio occupied West.
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  12. Escher says:

    Trump is backtracking on every commitment he made during his election campaign and in his post-election victory speech.
    The house always wins.

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  13. Corvinus says:
    @nickels
    The American government exists for the single reason of protecting the wealth of the landed financial elite.
    Like every dying state, the mad insanity to retain world hegemony, in the face of such an impossibility, leads to escalating insanity and eventual war and destruction.

    Trump is either an idiot, helpless, or in on it.

    I can no longer be an American patriot.

    So if it is a fact that our government protects the elite, and you can no longer be a patriot, what are you willing to do about this situation other than writing on a blog of your despair? What is your plan to topple those elites?

    Now, regarding the topic at hand, Patrick commented “He is targeting us because we have 28,500 troops on his border. If U.S. air, naval, missile and ground forces were not in and around Korea, and if we were not treaty-bound to fight alongside South Korea, there would be no reason for Kim to build rockets to threaten a distant superpower that could reduce his hermit kingdom to ashes.”

    Mighty big IF’s. And the reason why Kim would still build long-range missiles is to defend the borders of his country against any and all potential adversaries.

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    • Replies: @nickels
    So you're joining in with the rest of the 'liberal' warmongers then?

    Jellyfish for spines. That's why the 'liberal' of yesterday becomes the facist of today.
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  14. Randal says:

    Why Is Kim Jong Un Our Problem?

    Because you (collectively, the American people) were variously naïve, stupid, distracted or evil enough to let your political and media and business and military elites manipulate you into the situation you are now in.

    What are you going to do about it? (I predict. based upon decades of experience, nothing.)

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    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Rurik

    Because you (collectively, the American people) were variously naïve, stupid, distracted or evil enough to let your political and media and business and military elites manipulate you into the situation you are now in.
     
    and the only people who were/are variously even more naïve, stupid, distracted or evil are the Brits, who willingly and eagerly allowed Rothschild and the Zionists not only to use them as cannon fodder in two disastrous and fratricidal world wars, then turned their nation into a laughingstock of politically correct sheople who watch their school girls gang raped and sold on the block as chattel to middle aged Muslim orcs, but who also follow the ZUSA into every wanton act of moral rapine everywhere on the planet.

    The second the ZUSA decides to do something stupid or evil, who can they count on to cravenly acquiesce without even asking? Eh? England is like Zio-America's dog, only more subservient. At least when they aren't holding another 'jubilee' for that execrable hag.

    Who can the whole world be certain will abjectly and meekly endorse the American (admittedly rotten and criminal) government's every war crime and atrocity from the war on Iraq to the war on Libya to the serial destabilizations in Syria and beyond? Who can the whole world be certain that if the US decides to start a war with N. Korea or Russia or anyone else, that the Brits will be there with all their moral capital (none) and that all-so-important British accent to give the next act of criminal aggression some pretentious sounding "legitimacy", eh?

    These days I grieve for the West. Our politicians are sniveling whore$ for Zion. Our cultural institutions inject spiritual sewage. Our very identities are maligned as intrinsically wicked and vile (racist!) from every mediaⓊ and governmentⓊ outlet that our taxes can fund.

    But none more so than Merry Olde EnglandⓊ. Where the entire aristocracy seems to be obsessed with little boys when they aren't vying to smell Rothschild's farts. Where pensioners are jailed for protecting their property or loved ones from the orcs unleashed upon British society by their government. I wince every time I read about England in the news, where some new politically correct outrage is being forced down those people's throats. Why don't they rise up? I ask myself. Why do they submit to seemingly everything, no matter how egregious?

    I see I'm sorting ranting now..

    anyways, yes, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate for president, and always been betrayed, from Woodrow Wilson to Barak Obama. We're waiting now to see if it's happened again. But one thing is absolutely certain, and that is that if the ZUSA does decide to plunge the world into yet another mindless slaughter-fest, that we can all be absolutely certain about is that the first and most eager vassal will be none other than Perfidious Albion. Dedicated not just to destroying life in England for the British people with rampant political correctness and massive immigration, but also slaughtering anyone anywhere when called upon by the netherworld, Satanic directives of Zion.
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  15. Joe Wong says:
    @Gapeseed
    The old saying "personnel is policy" has a corollary for military projection: "equipment is policy." Our intentions are made clear by our multitudes of aircraft carrier groupings - force projectors which make it easy to swagger on the world's stage and dole out protection guarantees. Never mind that carriers are easy to spot and almost impossible to defend against a First World adversary - a barrage of nuclear tip cruise missiles wouldn't even have to score a direct hit to take out a fleet. We can protect ourselves from entanglement and our sailors from early death by changing the mix of spending options - fewer carriers, more subs! And while we're at it, encourage Japan to remilitarize with some deterrent offensive capacity to provide a counterweight to Chinese ambitions. There is a happy medium between a purely defensive ward Japan and full Tojo - let's find it.

    Japanese is an unrepentant war criminal, and they have the most lethal military in the western Pacific, yet you call such deadly combination a purely defensive ward Japan? No wonder the American is calling bombing and killing on the fabricated phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention, having forward deployment military bases all over the world and a warmongering state that put the world in constant fear.

    Read More
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  16. Joe Wong says:
    @blah blah teleblah
    A NATO that never expanded beyond Germany would help keep the peace with Russia, but for reasons that are often misunderstood. The thing that any Russian statesman, including Putin, fears more than anything is a truly independent Germany, i.e. a Germany whose military is not constrained by the United States. Right now, Germany is more or less a pacifistic nation. However, who knows what happens if the influx of refugees accelerates, there's some sort of economic collapse or some other shock. The last thing Russia wants is an angry Germany free to re-arm as it wishes and perhaps with nuclear weapons. As long as Germany is in NATO, and to a lesser extent the EU, it's freedom to do that sort of thing is severely limited.

    I imagine that there's a similar dynamic between Japan and China. While China sometimes saber rattles a bit against Japan when it wants to whip up public sentiment in one direction or another, it probably realizes that its security is ultimately guaranteed by the US's de facto military dominance of Japan.

    Maintaining this dominance of Japan and Germany costs a pretty penny, but it has made another European war or another Sino-Japanese war seem unthinkable. Small price to pay I guess.

    The Washington beltway warmongers has been explaining away their reckless wars, war crimes, crimes against peace and crimes against humanity like yours ever since WWII.

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  17. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Trade deficit bottom line: US sends dollars “printed” out of thin air to foreigners for real physical merchandise and labor. Who would not want that type of “trade deficit”?

    Read More
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  18. Rurik says:
    @Randal

    Why Is Kim Jong Un Our Problem?
     
    Because you (collectively, the American people) were variously naïve, stupid, distracted or evil enough to let your political and media and business and military elites manipulate you into the situation you are now in.

    What are you going to do about it? (I predict. based upon decades of experience, nothing.)

    Because you (collectively, the American people) were variously naïve, stupid, distracted or evil enough to let your political and media and business and military elites manipulate you into the situation you are now in.

    and the only people who were/are variously even more naïve, stupid, distracted or evil are the Brits, who willingly and eagerly allowed Rothschild and the Zionists not only to use them as cannon fodder in two disastrous and fratricidal world wars, then turned their nation into a laughingstock of politically correct sheople who watch their school girls gang raped and sold on the block as chattel to middle aged Muslim orcs, but who also follow the ZUSA into every wanton act of moral rapine everywhere on the planet.

    The second the ZUSA decides to do something stupid or evil, who can they count on to cravenly acquiesce without even asking? Eh? England is like Zio-America’s dog, only more subservient. At least when they aren’t holding another ‘jubilee’ for that execrable hag.

    Who can the whole world be certain will abjectly and meekly endorse the American (admittedly rotten and criminal) government’s every war crime and atrocity from the war on Iraq to the war on Libya to the serial destabilizations in Syria and beyond? Who can the whole world be certain that if the US decides to start a war with N. Korea or Russia or anyone else, that the Brits will be there with all their moral capital (none) and that all-so-important British accent to give the next act of criminal aggression some pretentious sounding “legitimacy”, eh?

    These days I grieve for the West. Our politicians are sniveling whore$ for Zion. Our cultural institutions inject spiritual sewage. Our very identities are maligned as intrinsically wicked and vile (racist!) from every mediaⓊ and governmentⓊ outlet that our taxes can fund.

    But none more so than Merry Olde EnglandⓊ. Where the entire aristocracy seems to be obsessed with little boys when they aren’t vying to smell Rothschild’s farts. Where pensioners are jailed for protecting their property or loved ones from the orcs unleashed upon British society by their government. I wince every time I read about England in the news, where some new politically correct outrage is being forced down those people’s throats. Why don’t they rise up? I ask myself. Why do they submit to seemingly everything, no matter how egregious?

    I see I’m sorting ranting now..

    anyways, yes, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate for president, and always been betrayed, from Woodrow Wilson to Barak Obama. We’re waiting now to see if it’s happened again. But one thing is absolutely certain, and that is that if the ZUSA does decide to plunge the world into yet another mindless slaughter-fest, that we can all be absolutely certain about is that the first and most eager vassal will be none other than Perfidious Albion. Dedicated not just to destroying life in England for the British people with rampant political correctness and massive immigration, but also slaughtering anyone anywhere when called upon by the netherworld, Satanic directives of Zion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Levantine
    Beautiful comment! Great depth of knowledge and excellent description of the western paradigm. Very sad but very true.
    , @bluedog
    You know you remind me of what Truman said or so they say "Its a tribute to the American people that have to be lied to, but its no tribute that they are so easily deceived."
    , @Randal
    We had almost this exact exchange a short while ago, when you responded similarly to a similar comment of mine, with a lengthy tu quoque diversion followed by an attempt to pretend the American people are some kind of pacifist peacenik collective repeatedly fooled into electing warmongers. So rather than go into it at length again, I'll just summarise it here:

    1 Tu quoque is not a meaningful or useful response to the point I made, it is just a diversion, and;

    2 Americans have repeatedly elected and re-elected open warmongers such as McCain and Graham, and where they have elected presidents who are supposedly opposed to interventionist wars (as with Bush II and Trump), that aspect has only ever been a minor part of their appeal, bolstered as it was with plenty of "American military might is great" and "I will smash ISIS" militarism, and;

    3 Even to the extent there is any truth in the claim that Americans have repeatedly voted for peace only to be fooled by lying warmongers, that merely emphasises the stupidity aspect of the American people over the evil aspect.

    You need to stop trying to divert from the responsibility of the American people for the actions of their elected representatives, recognise and take ownership of that responsibility, and then you can start to confront the real problems honestly. If you persist in believing "the noble American people were fooled yet again", you are going to keep on being surprised when it happens yet again.
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  19. Rurik says:
    @dfordoom

    because America’s elites live for the great game of global empire.
     
    And to be honest many ordinary Americans do so as well. Fixing domestic problems is complex and tedious and a lot of hard work. Foreign policy by contrast seems like it's easy and fun - it's all White Hats and Black Hats and naturally the Americans must be the White Hats. And when you're the sole global superpower throwing your weight around and bullying other nations is fun. It's like watching sport on TV only more exciting. Wars have become just another televised extreme sport.

    It's not just the elites. Ordinary Americans cannot escape the responsibility for encouraging and enabling this kind of foreign policy recklessness.

    It's unfortunate that for so many people Make America Great Again means starting more wars.

    It’s unfortunate that for so many people Make America Great Again means starting more wars.

    you too eh?

    here’s a clue:

    the American people voted for Trump because he alone was against the wars

    the American people voted for Obama because he alone was against the wars

    the American people voted for Bush because he said, after the illegal bombing of Serbia, that he ‘wasn’t a nation builder’

    the American people voted for Nixon to get us out of the war

    the American people voted for Wilson and FDR because they promised to keep us out of the wars

    that every single time we are betrayed, doesn’t change the fact that we always vote against the wars, OK? Capisce?

    do you think the American people want to see their children come home in boxes? Or in pieces?

    what kind of people do you think Americans are, monsters?

    consider.. the scumfucks have wanted to use American children for their cannon fodder for a long time now. They tried everything they could think of to get us motivated to slaughter Arabs and Persians in the ‘holy’ land now for generations. Nothing worked. We were too peace-loving. (not pacifists, but not murderous animals either) So ((they)) had to do their ‘new Pearl Harbor’ to cajole us into Endless Wars for Israel. OK? That’s what it took. A massive, transformational false flag attack.

    we’re just now starting to come to grips with the sheer momentous, treacherous and cowardly evil of that act.

    but my point is that Americans have a long history of not wanting to go to (contrived) wars (to benefit war-pig or Zionist) scumfucks. We always have to be betrayed and lied into these wars. And it’s rather likely that your nation of origin or residency is any different, if it’s in the Rothschild/Zio occupied West.

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  20. nickels says:
    @Corvinus
    So if it is a fact that our government protects the elite, and you can no longer be a patriot, what are you willing to do about this situation other than writing on a blog of your despair? What is your plan to topple those elites?

    Now, regarding the topic at hand, Patrick commented "He is targeting us because we have 28,500 troops on his border. If U.S. air, naval, missile and ground forces were not in and around Korea, and if we were not treaty-bound to fight alongside South Korea, there would be no reason for Kim to build rockets to threaten a distant superpower that could reduce his hermit kingdom to ashes."

    Mighty big IF's. And the reason why Kim would still build long-range missiles is to defend the borders of his country against any and all potential adversaries.

    So you’re joining in with the rest of the ‘liberal’ warmongers then?

    Jellyfish for spines. That’s why the ‘liberal’ of yesterday becomes the facist of today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "So you’re joining in with the rest of the ‘liberal’ warmongers then?"

    Great strawman there. Go talk to the Little Piggies.

    The liberals of the 1960's who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neo-cons of today. Are you able to comprehend this simple point?

    "Jellyfish for spines. That’s why the ‘liberal’ of yesterday becomes the facist of today."

    Talk about spineless. Again, if it is a fact that our government protects the elite, and you can no longer be a patriot, what are you willing to do about this situation other than writing on a blog of your despair? What is your plan to topple those elites?
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  21. Corvinus says:
    @nickels
    So you're joining in with the rest of the 'liberal' warmongers then?

    Jellyfish for spines. That's why the 'liberal' of yesterday becomes the facist of today.

    “So you’re joining in with the rest of the ‘liberal’ warmongers then?”

    Great strawman there. Go talk to the Little Piggies.

    The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neo-cons of today. Are you able to comprehend this simple point?

    “Jellyfish for spines. That’s why the ‘liberal’ of yesterday becomes the facist of today.”

    Talk about spineless. Again, if it is a fact that our government protects the elite, and you can no longer be a patriot, what are you willing to do about this situation other than writing on a blog of your despair? What is your plan to topple those elites?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I've never seen anything other than BS from you Corvinus. This one takes the cake:

    The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neo-cons of today. Are you able to comprehend this simple point?
     
    The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neocons of today. Fixed It For You with minimal effort - two words removed.
    , @nickels
    Quality post as usual, lol.
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  22. @Rurik

    Because you (collectively, the American people) were variously naïve, stupid, distracted or evil enough to let your political and media and business and military elites manipulate you into the situation you are now in.
     
    and the only people who were/are variously even more naïve, stupid, distracted or evil are the Brits, who willingly and eagerly allowed Rothschild and the Zionists not only to use them as cannon fodder in two disastrous and fratricidal world wars, then turned their nation into a laughingstock of politically correct sheople who watch their school girls gang raped and sold on the block as chattel to middle aged Muslim orcs, but who also follow the ZUSA into every wanton act of moral rapine everywhere on the planet.

    The second the ZUSA decides to do something stupid or evil, who can they count on to cravenly acquiesce without even asking? Eh? England is like Zio-America's dog, only more subservient. At least when they aren't holding another 'jubilee' for that execrable hag.

    Who can the whole world be certain will abjectly and meekly endorse the American (admittedly rotten and criminal) government's every war crime and atrocity from the war on Iraq to the war on Libya to the serial destabilizations in Syria and beyond? Who can the whole world be certain that if the US decides to start a war with N. Korea or Russia or anyone else, that the Brits will be there with all their moral capital (none) and that all-so-important British accent to give the next act of criminal aggression some pretentious sounding "legitimacy", eh?

    These days I grieve for the West. Our politicians are sniveling whore$ for Zion. Our cultural institutions inject spiritual sewage. Our very identities are maligned as intrinsically wicked and vile (racist!) from every mediaⓊ and governmentⓊ outlet that our taxes can fund.

    But none more so than Merry Olde EnglandⓊ. Where the entire aristocracy seems to be obsessed with little boys when they aren't vying to smell Rothschild's farts. Where pensioners are jailed for protecting their property or loved ones from the orcs unleashed upon British society by their government. I wince every time I read about England in the news, where some new politically correct outrage is being forced down those people's throats. Why don't they rise up? I ask myself. Why do they submit to seemingly everything, no matter how egregious?

    I see I'm sorting ranting now..

    anyways, yes, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate for president, and always been betrayed, from Woodrow Wilson to Barak Obama. We're waiting now to see if it's happened again. But one thing is absolutely certain, and that is that if the ZUSA does decide to plunge the world into yet another mindless slaughter-fest, that we can all be absolutely certain about is that the first and most eager vassal will be none other than Perfidious Albion. Dedicated not just to destroying life in England for the British people with rampant political correctness and massive immigration, but also slaughtering anyone anywhere when called upon by the netherworld, Satanic directives of Zion.

    Beautiful comment! Great depth of knowledge and excellent description of the western paradigm. Very sad but very true.

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  23. bluedog says:
    @Rurik

    Because you (collectively, the American people) were variously naïve, stupid, distracted or evil enough to let your political and media and business and military elites manipulate you into the situation you are now in.
     
    and the only people who were/are variously even more naïve, stupid, distracted or evil are the Brits, who willingly and eagerly allowed Rothschild and the Zionists not only to use them as cannon fodder in two disastrous and fratricidal world wars, then turned their nation into a laughingstock of politically correct sheople who watch their school girls gang raped and sold on the block as chattel to middle aged Muslim orcs, but who also follow the ZUSA into every wanton act of moral rapine everywhere on the planet.

    The second the ZUSA decides to do something stupid or evil, who can they count on to cravenly acquiesce without even asking? Eh? England is like Zio-America's dog, only more subservient. At least when they aren't holding another 'jubilee' for that execrable hag.

    Who can the whole world be certain will abjectly and meekly endorse the American (admittedly rotten and criminal) government's every war crime and atrocity from the war on Iraq to the war on Libya to the serial destabilizations in Syria and beyond? Who can the whole world be certain that if the US decides to start a war with N. Korea or Russia or anyone else, that the Brits will be there with all their moral capital (none) and that all-so-important British accent to give the next act of criminal aggression some pretentious sounding "legitimacy", eh?

    These days I grieve for the West. Our politicians are sniveling whore$ for Zion. Our cultural institutions inject spiritual sewage. Our very identities are maligned as intrinsically wicked and vile (racist!) from every mediaⓊ and governmentⓊ outlet that our taxes can fund.

    But none more so than Merry Olde EnglandⓊ. Where the entire aristocracy seems to be obsessed with little boys when they aren't vying to smell Rothschild's farts. Where pensioners are jailed for protecting their property or loved ones from the orcs unleashed upon British society by their government. I wince every time I read about England in the news, where some new politically correct outrage is being forced down those people's throats. Why don't they rise up? I ask myself. Why do they submit to seemingly everything, no matter how egregious?

    I see I'm sorting ranting now..

    anyways, yes, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate for president, and always been betrayed, from Woodrow Wilson to Barak Obama. We're waiting now to see if it's happened again. But one thing is absolutely certain, and that is that if the ZUSA does decide to plunge the world into yet another mindless slaughter-fest, that we can all be absolutely certain about is that the first and most eager vassal will be none other than Perfidious Albion. Dedicated not just to destroying life in England for the British people with rampant political correctness and massive immigration, but also slaughtering anyone anywhere when called upon by the netherworld, Satanic directives of Zion.

    You know you remind me of what Truman said or so they say “Its a tribute to the American people that have to be lied to, but its no tribute that they are so easily deceived.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    “Its a tribute to the American people that have to be lied to, but its no tribute that they are so easily deceived.”
     
    what nationality are you sir? (I think you're a 'sir' ; )

    IOW I just don't know of a people anywhere who are not susceptible to scoundrels taking over the levers of their society and lying them into disastrous wars.

    do you know of any such people?

    yesterday it was the Russians, who under the thrall of the Bolsheviks rained down terror and genocide upon the Russian people and her neighbors

    what was it Goering said?:

    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
     
    Hungary suffered under Béla Kun

    China endured Mao

    look at the Khmer Rouge

    Persia was once an empire, imposing itself on others

    today the (Zionist) Jews are drunk on power

    I recently had a go at England and the British people's regrettable, eternal fealty to war mongering pedophiles and moldering monarchs

    all through history there have been tyrants lying their people into wars, from ancient Egypt to modern day Ukraine/Turkey/KSA/Israel/ZUSA/France/UK and indeed, all NATO nations are directly complicit by principle in today's evil and disastrous warsⓊ.

    who are these elusive people who are not "so easily deceived"? Eh?
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  24. @Corvinus
    "So you’re joining in with the rest of the ‘liberal’ warmongers then?"

    Great strawman there. Go talk to the Little Piggies.

    The liberals of the 1960's who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neo-cons of today. Are you able to comprehend this simple point?

    "Jellyfish for spines. That’s why the ‘liberal’ of yesterday becomes the facist of today."

    Talk about spineless. Again, if it is a fact that our government protects the elite, and you can no longer be a patriot, what are you willing to do about this situation other than writing on a blog of your despair? What is your plan to topple those elites?

    I’ve never seen anything other than BS from you Corvinus. This one takes the cake:

    The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neo-cons of today. Are you able to comprehend this simple point?

    The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neocons of today. Fixed It For You with minimal effort – two words removed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neocons of today. Fixed It For You with minimal effort – two words removed."

    Some liberals. But most liberals remain steadfast opposed to American invention and imperialism. Of course, there was a mindset, a theoretical and political dispensation, that made it possible for those liberals to become neocons. That doesn’t mean, however, all liberals of that mindset are neocons, that liberals as a whole made that shift, but it does mean that the chief spokespersons for liberalism, as a theory and as a practice, went in that direction, as "liberal hawks", with other liberals being opposed to their position.

    You do understand nuance, right?
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  25. Now, if Mr. Buchanan and Mr. Ron Paul could mind-meld, we’d have the ideal guy that understands what’s wrong with this country. Pat Buchanan knows his history, most likely more than Ron Paul, but he doesn’t seem to understand or discuss, anyway, the sorry financial mess that America is in.

    The financial hole that the US is digging deeper into is well-chronicled by ZeroHedge. With respect to our military adventures around the world, PeakStupidity relates this and the sorry financial state together here.

    Ron Paul understands the financial mess and Pat Buchanan understands the foreign policy mess, though of course there is overlap. We need these two guy as co-presidents, or they could work out some weird test-tube-baby dealy and come up with an offspring that freakin’ GETS IT. However, we don’t have time for even 40 years for the kid to grow up and run for president. I don’t think we have 10 years left before the country’s fall and concurrent end to Peak Stupidity, our consolation prize.

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  26. […] By Pat Buchanan • Unz Review  […]

    Read More
  27. If we pulled our troops out of South Korea, the Raison d’Etre of the North’s totalitarian dictatorship would vanish.

    Trump is supposed to be such a brilliant guy, and maybe he is. Fooled me, anyway.

    I didn’t see him as an anti-war candidate so much as a “less war” candidate. But maybe I was wrong.

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  28. Corvinus says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    I've never seen anything other than BS from you Corvinus. This one takes the cake:

    The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neo-cons of today. Are you able to comprehend this simple point?
     
    The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neocons of today. Fixed It For You with minimal effort - two words removed.

    “The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neocons of today. Fixed It For You with minimal effort – two words removed.”

    Some liberals. But most liberals remain steadfast opposed to American invention and imperialism. Of course, there was a mindset, a theoretical and political dispensation, that made it possible for those liberals to become neocons. That doesn’t mean, however, all liberals of that mindset are neocons, that liberals as a whole made that shift, but it does mean that the chief spokespersons for liberalism, as a theory and as a practice, went in that direction, as “liberal hawks”, with other liberals being opposed to their position.

    You do understand nuance, right?

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    "spokespersons"? Seriously?

    I think, Corvinus, that you should read zerohedge and its commenters or peakstupidity for a few years, and you will understand what is really going on. By then our country will be lost, though, so it won't matter.

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  29. Soju says:

    Agree with Buchannan’s end state – the removal of guarantees, “trip wires”, and maybe all US troops. But the U.S. can’t turn tail and run in the face of threats. If China doesn’t take immediate action to control KN, we should encourage Japan to build a nuclear arsenal. South Korea would certainly follow. Then we can reduce our security commitments, leaving the North Asia principals maintain stability.

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  30. @Corvinus
    "The liberals of the 1960′s who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neocons of today. Fixed It For You with minimal effort – two words removed."

    Some liberals. But most liberals remain steadfast opposed to American invention and imperialism. Of course, there was a mindset, a theoretical and political dispensation, that made it possible for those liberals to become neocons. That doesn’t mean, however, all liberals of that mindset are neocons, that liberals as a whole made that shift, but it does mean that the chief spokespersons for liberalism, as a theory and as a practice, went in that direction, as "liberal hawks", with other liberals being opposed to their position.

    You do understand nuance, right?

    “spokespersons”? Seriously?

    I think, Corvinus, that you should read zerohedge and its commenters or peakstupidity for a few years, and you will understand what is really going on. By then our country will be lost, though, so it won’t matter.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Apparently, you don't understand nuance.

    "I think, Corvinus, that you should read zerohedge and its commenters or peakstupidity for a few years, and you will understand what is really going on."

    Propaganda at its finest, just like HuffPo or MSNBC.

    "By then our country will be lost, though, so it won’t matter."

    Ye of little faith. So, what are you specifically doing to stop our country from being lost, considering that you "get it" compared to the dumb masses? Or are you simply riding out in its decline?

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  31. anon says: • Disclaimer

    “Why is Kim our problem”?

    Because the American political elite refuses to mind its own business.

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  32. Corvinus says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    "spokespersons"? Seriously?

    I think, Corvinus, that you should read zerohedge and its commenters or peakstupidity for a few years, and you will understand what is really going on. By then our country will be lost, though, so it won't matter.

    Apparently, you don’t understand nuance.

    “I think, Corvinus, that you should read zerohedge and its commenters or peakstupidity for a few years, and you will understand what is really going on.”

    Propaganda at its finest, just like HuffPo or MSNBC.

    “By then our country will be lost, though, so it won’t matter.”

    Ye of little faith. So, what are you specifically doing to stop our country from being lost, considering that you “get it” compared to the dumb masses? Or are you simply riding out in its decline?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I'm not just gonna ride it out, Corvinus. I don't particularly like that "enjoy the decline" guy (can't remember his website name, but I read it a year or two back for a while). It'd be OK, I guess, if you have no love for the people and the land anymore, no kids/grandkids and are single. If I were that guy, I'd pick Uruguay, and I will say that I was looking up things about that country about 2 years back, before Derbyshire brought it up a few times. 90% white people - what a concept!

    So, what are you specifically doing to stop our country from being lost, considering that you “get it” compared to the dumb masses?
     
    I don't think the masses are all dumb, I think most are uninformed. No use divulging info about what I am going to do - this is not a prepper site. There's lot of them - you could learn something there, but to me zerohedge lays out the big picture of the financial pain to come (or at least the reasons for it, not exactly how things will go down) pretty well, were you to read it for a year or 2.

    Why do you keep mentioning the "nuance"?
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  33. mikhas says:

    “Why Is Kim Jong Un Our Problem?”

    Well, since you killed several millions of Koreans during that war, you might be a problem to Koreans have you though about that? Certainly North Koreans but N.K decided long ago to settle that with a peace treaty being signed between US and N.K (and S.K) so they can go on with their lives, unite and prosper as one nation.

    But this has been denied them continuously by several US regimes for 60 years already because you need a hold on China and a Raison d’Etre to be to be there.
    Get the F out and leave these people at peace.

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    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    so they can go on with their lives, unite and prosper as one nation.
     
    How's that working out for the N. Koreans? haha, that has nothing to do with the US and much to do with what happens when then socialists let things escalate into tyranny.

    Get the F out and leave these people at peace
     
    Absolutely leave them the F alone and get out, but "peace" is not the be all to end all for a poor Kim Smoe in the North there. They'd be much better off living in violence and taking that crazy-assed ruling family down from their positions and hanging them.

    Peace with no food is not what it's cracked up to be, Mikhas. Ask 40,000,000 people that lived under Mao without any more food and died after the tree bark and grass didn't give them the amount of calories it takes to sustain life. Oh, wait, you can't

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  34. Rurik says:
    @bluedog
    You know you remind me of what Truman said or so they say "Its a tribute to the American people that have to be lied to, but its no tribute that they are so easily deceived."

    “Its a tribute to the American people that have to be lied to, but its no tribute that they are so easily deceived.”

    what nationality are you sir? (I think you’re a ‘sir’ ; )

    IOW I just don’t know of a people anywhere who are not susceptible to scoundrels taking over the levers of their society and lying them into disastrous wars.

    do you know of any such people?

    yesterday it was the Russians, who under the thrall of the Bolsheviks rained down terror and genocide upon the Russian people and her neighbors

    what was it Goering said?:

    “Naturally the common people don’t want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY.”

    Hungary suffered under Béla Kun

    China endured Mao

    look at the Khmer Rouge

    Persia was once an empire, imposing itself on others

    today the (Zionist) Jews are drunk on power

    I recently had a go at England and the British people’s regrettable, eternal fealty to war mongering pedophiles and moldering monarchs

    all through history there have been tyrants lying their people into wars, from ancient Egypt to modern day Ukraine/Turkey/KSA/Israel/ZUSA/France/UK and indeed, all NATO nations are directly complicit by principle in today’s evil and disastrous warsⓊ.

    who are these elusive people who are not “so easily deceived”? Eh?

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Well yes you could say I'm a "sir" hmm on my fathers side my ancestors came from Normandy and Scotland with some Native American thrown in and my mother was Welsh, and that's my nationality not that I can say it has anything to do with the matter at hand; for you see we are exceptional and really ought to know better
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  35. nickels says:
    @Corvinus
    "So you’re joining in with the rest of the ‘liberal’ warmongers then?"

    Great strawman there. Go talk to the Little Piggies.

    The liberals of the 1960's who opposed the Vietnam War are also against the neo-cons of today. Are you able to comprehend this simple point?

    "Jellyfish for spines. That’s why the ‘liberal’ of yesterday becomes the facist of today."

    Talk about spineless. Again, if it is a fact that our government protects the elite, and you can no longer be a patriot, what are you willing to do about this situation other than writing on a blog of your despair? What is your plan to topple those elites?

    Quality post as usual, lol.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Apparently you are impotent to do anything about the power of the elites. How said, you could prove that you are indeed a patriot.
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  36. Amanda says:
    Read More
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  37. Randal says:
    @Rurik

    Because you (collectively, the American people) were variously naïve, stupid, distracted or evil enough to let your political and media and business and military elites manipulate you into the situation you are now in.
     
    and the only people who were/are variously even more naïve, stupid, distracted or evil are the Brits, who willingly and eagerly allowed Rothschild and the Zionists not only to use them as cannon fodder in two disastrous and fratricidal world wars, then turned their nation into a laughingstock of politically correct sheople who watch their school girls gang raped and sold on the block as chattel to middle aged Muslim orcs, but who also follow the ZUSA into every wanton act of moral rapine everywhere on the planet.

    The second the ZUSA decides to do something stupid or evil, who can they count on to cravenly acquiesce without even asking? Eh? England is like Zio-America's dog, only more subservient. At least when they aren't holding another 'jubilee' for that execrable hag.

    Who can the whole world be certain will abjectly and meekly endorse the American (admittedly rotten and criminal) government's every war crime and atrocity from the war on Iraq to the war on Libya to the serial destabilizations in Syria and beyond? Who can the whole world be certain that if the US decides to start a war with N. Korea or Russia or anyone else, that the Brits will be there with all their moral capital (none) and that all-so-important British accent to give the next act of criminal aggression some pretentious sounding "legitimacy", eh?

    These days I grieve for the West. Our politicians are sniveling whore$ for Zion. Our cultural institutions inject spiritual sewage. Our very identities are maligned as intrinsically wicked and vile (racist!) from every mediaⓊ and governmentⓊ outlet that our taxes can fund.

    But none more so than Merry Olde EnglandⓊ. Where the entire aristocracy seems to be obsessed with little boys when they aren't vying to smell Rothschild's farts. Where pensioners are jailed for protecting their property or loved ones from the orcs unleashed upon British society by their government. I wince every time I read about England in the news, where some new politically correct outrage is being forced down those people's throats. Why don't they rise up? I ask myself. Why do they submit to seemingly everything, no matter how egregious?

    I see I'm sorting ranting now..

    anyways, yes, the American people have always voted for the anti-war candidate for president, and always been betrayed, from Woodrow Wilson to Barak Obama. We're waiting now to see if it's happened again. But one thing is absolutely certain, and that is that if the ZUSA does decide to plunge the world into yet another mindless slaughter-fest, that we can all be absolutely certain about is that the first and most eager vassal will be none other than Perfidious Albion. Dedicated not just to destroying life in England for the British people with rampant political correctness and massive immigration, but also slaughtering anyone anywhere when called upon by the netherworld, Satanic directives of Zion.

    We had almost this exact exchange a short while ago, when you responded similarly to a similar comment of mine, with a lengthy tu quoque diversion followed by an attempt to pretend the American people are some kind of pacifist peacenik collective repeatedly fooled into electing warmongers. So rather than go into it at length again, I’ll just summarise it here:

    1 Tu quoque is not a meaningful or useful response to the point I made, it is just a diversion, and;

    2 Americans have repeatedly elected and re-elected open warmongers such as McCain and Graham, and where they have elected presidents who are supposedly opposed to interventionist wars (as with Bush II and Trump), that aspect has only ever been a minor part of their appeal, bolstered as it was with plenty of “American military might is great” and “I will smash ISIS” militarism, and;

    3 Even to the extent there is any truth in the claim that Americans have repeatedly voted for peace only to be fooled by lying warmongers, that merely emphasises the stupidity aspect of the American people over the evil aspect.

    You need to stop trying to divert from the responsibility of the American people for the actions of their elected representatives, recognise and take ownership of that responsibility, and then you can start to confront the real problems honestly. If you persist in believing “the noble American people were fooled yet again”, you are going to keep on being surprised when it happens yet again.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Americans have repeatedly elected and re-elected open warmongers such as McCain
     
    you got me there

    for the life of me I can't explain how any sane person could pull the lever for that man


    3 Even to the extent there is any truth in the claim that Americans have repeatedly voted for peace only to be fooled by lying warmongers, that merely emphasises the stupidity aspect of the American people over the evil aspect
     
    I'm not saying Americans aren't stupid. By and large, they are. But no more so than any other people. And they certainly are not evil. It is our Zio-government that is evil. Just like England's. Or France's or Germany's.

    I guess what's a little off-putting is the knee-jerk antipathy of so many people for the average schmo in America who has no power to control anything, but who gets all the blame for all the evil that our demonic government perpetrates all over the world, because somehow, since we have the vote, we're supposed to only elect good people. Which is what we always try to do, but then these politicians always turn out rotten because they're corrupted by the money men. (Just like in England or Germany) And I suspect that many of us Americans, hate these traitorous scum even more than someone like you does. But rather than blame the traitorous scum, there are a lot of people who'd prefer to blame the janitors and waitresses and welders and secretaries than blame the Obama's and Dick Cheney's who really are the super-criminals.

    You can pooh-pooh the American people for voting against the wars, and suggest that they "take ownership of that responsibility", but I'd really like to know how you expect us to do that. Would you have us take to arms? Raise the black flag? Start slitting throats? (actually I suspect there are a lot of Americans that would like to do exactly that ; )

    We voted for Trump because he said he was against the wars. Trump is a famous billionaire and has the means to run for president. Most of us Americans don't. All we can do is vote for the guy who says he's against the wars, and then hope for the best. Perhaps he'll do the right thing, and perhaps not. But if he doesn't, then at least we can be sure that there will be a lot of smug people the world over who will want to place the blame squarely on the working schmo in America for not controlling the MIC/neocons/msm/Federal Reserve better.

    , @reiner Tor
    I don't think it's useful to blame a people for behaving the way people have behaved since time immemorial. Most (basically, all) peoples are sheeples.

    The Americans have often elected the less warmonger of the two, in fact, since 2000, only once, in 2004, did they elect the more warmongering candidate. In 2000, Dubya was running from a quasi isolationist platform. In 2008, Obama was obviously the better choice, don't forget, it was the deranged McCain who was the other candidate. Then Obama was again, at least from a foreign policy perspective, the better candidate, in spite of what he had done in Libya. At least he chickened out of Syria. I'm not sure Romney wouldn't have attacked Syria. Then in 2016 came Trump.
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  38. Amanda says:
    @Anon
    "Why Is Kim Jong Un Our Problem?"

    Why is NK America's problem?

    Same reason US is stuck with Israel/Palestine.

    If not for US meddling, there would have been no Israel. US made it and is stuck with it.

    Likewise, Korea would not have gotten divided if not for US request to USSR to enter North Asia. US offered all of Korea to Stalin and then changed the plan to dividing Korea. US policy created NK.

    Palestine was divided too, but Jews won the war and unified it by kicking Palestinians out.

    Korea was nearly united too under Kim Il Sung, but US intervened... and then it was nearly united under US... but then China entered and the division remained.

    And then, there was the long Cold War where US aided Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, South Vietnam, and Japan against communist China.

    So, we need some historical perspective here. North Korea exists only because of the US plan with USSR to divide Korea. And currently, the US holds onto South Korea as pawn against China. As for Jews, they are worried about Nork technology going to Arab nations.

    Given the history, it's not easy for US to just walk away. And it doesn't want to walk away since SK is a land base for US empire. Also, SK is a compliant puppet of the US, its Puerto Rico of Asia, not least because most Kor-Americans are such slavish collaborators of the empire(especially with the Democrats).

    I agree with Buchanan that it's time for US to move out of SK, but the history needs to be addressed.
    Also, US foreign policy since end of Cold War also needs to be addressed: that the reason why NK got nukes is because the US has been the most invasive and aggressive power in the world. Also, given the lies behind Iraq war and destruction of Libya --- and US aid to terrorists in Syria and its dirty tricks in Ukraine ---, the US cannot be trusted. US, ruled by Jews, waged Wars for Jewish Globalism all over.

    Also, the US remains the lone nasty great power in the region.

    After all, China has okay relations with both NK and SK. Russia also has okay relations with NK and SK. But US insists on denouncing NK as 'rogue nation' while acting like biggest rogue nation in the world.

    China and Russia used to back NK against SK. No longer. But US insists on backing SK against NK even though the cold war is over and even though NK's panicked tantrums are the result of US threats.

    It's time for US to say "We regret forcing the division of Korea by colluding with Stalin. It caused much harm in Asia. But Cold War is over. SK has a much bigger economy and population. It should defend itself and work together for unification that is historically just. And US won't interfere in improvement of relations between north and south."

    But unification of Korea can mean the whole thing may tilt to China eventually, and that is something US doesn't want. US sees SK like Woltz in Godfather saw that girl.

    I agree w/your overall response. But in response to your comment about “If not for US meddling, there would be no Israel” I just wanted to add that it’s worth looking into what Benjamin Freedman had to say about how Israel came about. He was there (he was assistant to Bernard Baruch, who was the Soros of yesterday), so he knows what happened.

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  39. Rurik says:
    @Randal
    We had almost this exact exchange a short while ago, when you responded similarly to a similar comment of mine, with a lengthy tu quoque diversion followed by an attempt to pretend the American people are some kind of pacifist peacenik collective repeatedly fooled into electing warmongers. So rather than go into it at length again, I'll just summarise it here:

    1 Tu quoque is not a meaningful or useful response to the point I made, it is just a diversion, and;

    2 Americans have repeatedly elected and re-elected open warmongers such as McCain and Graham, and where they have elected presidents who are supposedly opposed to interventionist wars (as with Bush II and Trump), that aspect has only ever been a minor part of their appeal, bolstered as it was with plenty of "American military might is great" and "I will smash ISIS" militarism, and;

    3 Even to the extent there is any truth in the claim that Americans have repeatedly voted for peace only to be fooled by lying warmongers, that merely emphasises the stupidity aspect of the American people over the evil aspect.

    You need to stop trying to divert from the responsibility of the American people for the actions of their elected representatives, recognise and take ownership of that responsibility, and then you can start to confront the real problems honestly. If you persist in believing "the noble American people were fooled yet again", you are going to keep on being surprised when it happens yet again.

    Americans have repeatedly elected and re-elected open warmongers such as McCain

    you got me there

    for the life of me I can’t explain how any sane person could pull the lever for that man

    3 Even to the extent there is any truth in the claim that Americans have repeatedly voted for peace only to be fooled by lying warmongers, that merely emphasises the stupidity aspect of the American people over the evil aspect

    I’m not saying Americans aren’t stupid. By and large, they are. But no more so than any other people. And they certainly are not evil. It is our Zio-government that is evil. Just like England’s. Or France’s or Germany’s.

    I guess what’s a little off-putting is the knee-jerk antipathy of so many people for the average schmo in America who has no power to control anything, but who gets all the blame for all the evil that our demonic government perpetrates all over the world, because somehow, since we have the vote, we’re supposed to only elect good people. Which is what we always try to do, but then these politicians always turn out rotten because they’re corrupted by the money men. (Just like in England or Germany) And I suspect that many of us Americans, hate these traitorous scum even more than someone like you does. But rather than blame the traitorous scum, there are a lot of people who’d prefer to blame the janitors and waitresses and welders and secretaries than blame the Obama’s and Dick Cheney’s who really are the super-criminals.

    You can pooh-pooh the American people for voting against the wars, and suggest that they “take ownership of that responsibility”, but I’d really like to know how you expect us to do that. Would you have us take to arms? Raise the black flag? Start slitting throats? (actually I suspect there are a lot of Americans that would like to do exactly that ; )

    We voted for Trump because he said he was against the wars. Trump is a famous billionaire and has the means to run for president. Most of us Americans don’t. All we can do is vote for the guy who says he’s against the wars, and then hope for the best. Perhaps he’ll do the right thing, and perhaps not. But if he doesn’t, then at least we can be sure that there will be a lot of smug people the world over who will want to place the blame squarely on the working schmo in America for not controlling the MIC/neocons/msm/Federal Reserve better.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    for the life of me I can’t explain how any sane person could pull the lever for that man
     
    John McCain, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, elected to Congress in 1982 largely on the basis of military background (personal and family), acted as a fairly consistent warmonger and advocate of military action and confrontation, to the general approval of Republican voters in Arizona who reelected him to the House in 1984 with 78% of the vote, and then to the Senate in 1986 with 60% of the vote, reelected him in 1992 with 56%, and again in 1998 with 69% after voting to bomb Bosnian Serbs, again in 2004 by a whopping 77% after voting for both the evil Kosovo aggression and the colossally stupid Iraq aggression, again in 2010 after openly promoting military action in Iraq and in Afghanistan and pretty much coming out as a fully fledged R2P "humanitarian" interventionist zealot, and finally in 2016 with 53% of the vote after openly supporting military aggression in Libya and Syria, and openly pushing for it in Ukraine.

    Looks to me like American Republican voters, in Arizona anyway, like their government to walk loudly and swing a big stick at every opportunity.

    Something similar could be written about the careers of quite a few senior US politicians, starting with Lindsey Graham but certainly not limited to Republicans.


    guess what’s a little off-putting is the knee-jerk antipathy of so many people for the average schmo in America who has no power to control anything
     
    I think it's something to do with the rest of us having been bombarded with propaganda about how the US is the exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill, where government is of the people, by the people and for the people, the land of the free and home of the brave, and told that you above all peoples have supposedly retained both the right and the ability (via the 2nd Amendment) to change your government when it no longer represents you.

    No personal offence intended (and I've every respect for you as a commenter here in general, you talk a lot of well informed sense), but that sits ill with whining about having been "deceived", time after time after time.

    I’d really like to know how you expect us to do that. Would you have us take to arms? Raise the black flag? Start slitting throats? (actually I suspect there are a lot of Americans that would like to do exactly that ; )
     
    Well at least stopping supporting the institutional structures that enable the warmongering, in the Republican and Democrat parties, and voting third party in larger numbers, would be a start. The fact is that more than enough Americans just like bombing foreigners, or think it really is their sacred duty to do so, or are easily scared into supporting it, to ensure that the small numbers voting for Democrat or Republican politicians on the basis of vague indications of foreign policy reasonableness will always be ignore once in office. Trump seemed to perhaps be the exception to that rule, so I don't blame those who supported him (quite the contrary, give the alternative). But it's looking increasingly as though he's merely the final proof of it.
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  40. Corvinus says:
    @nickels
    Quality post as usual, lol.

    Apparently you are impotent to do anything about the power of the elites. How said, you could prove that you are indeed a patriot.

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  41. bluedog says:
    @Rurik

    “Its a tribute to the American people that have to be lied to, but its no tribute that they are so easily deceived.”
     
    what nationality are you sir? (I think you're a 'sir' ; )

    IOW I just don't know of a people anywhere who are not susceptible to scoundrels taking over the levers of their society and lying them into disastrous wars.

    do you know of any such people?

    yesterday it was the Russians, who under the thrall of the Bolsheviks rained down terror and genocide upon the Russian people and her neighbors

    what was it Goering said?:

    "Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
     
    Hungary suffered under Béla Kun

    China endured Mao

    look at the Khmer Rouge

    Persia was once an empire, imposing itself on others

    today the (Zionist) Jews are drunk on power

    I recently had a go at England and the British people's regrettable, eternal fealty to war mongering pedophiles and moldering monarchs

    all through history there have been tyrants lying their people into wars, from ancient Egypt to modern day Ukraine/Turkey/KSA/Israel/ZUSA/France/UK and indeed, all NATO nations are directly complicit by principle in today's evil and disastrous warsⓊ.

    who are these elusive people who are not "so easily deceived"? Eh?

    Well yes you could say I’m a “sir” hmm on my fathers side my ancestors came from Normandy and Scotland with some Native American thrown in and my mother was Welsh, and that’s my nationality not that I can say it has anything to do with the matter at hand; for you see we are exceptional and really ought to know better

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  42. @Randal
    We had almost this exact exchange a short while ago, when you responded similarly to a similar comment of mine, with a lengthy tu quoque diversion followed by an attempt to pretend the American people are some kind of pacifist peacenik collective repeatedly fooled into electing warmongers. So rather than go into it at length again, I'll just summarise it here:

    1 Tu quoque is not a meaningful or useful response to the point I made, it is just a diversion, and;

    2 Americans have repeatedly elected and re-elected open warmongers such as McCain and Graham, and where they have elected presidents who are supposedly opposed to interventionist wars (as with Bush II and Trump), that aspect has only ever been a minor part of their appeal, bolstered as it was with plenty of "American military might is great" and "I will smash ISIS" militarism, and;

    3 Even to the extent there is any truth in the claim that Americans have repeatedly voted for peace only to be fooled by lying warmongers, that merely emphasises the stupidity aspect of the American people over the evil aspect.

    You need to stop trying to divert from the responsibility of the American people for the actions of their elected representatives, recognise and take ownership of that responsibility, and then you can start to confront the real problems honestly. If you persist in believing "the noble American people were fooled yet again", you are going to keep on being surprised when it happens yet again.

    I don’t think it’s useful to blame a people for behaving the way people have behaved since time immemorial. Most (basically, all) peoples are sheeples.

    The Americans have often elected the less warmonger of the two, in fact, since 2000, only once, in 2004, did they elect the more warmongering candidate. In 2000, Dubya was running from a quasi isolationist platform. In 2008, Obama was obviously the better choice, don’t forget, it was the deranged McCain who was the other candidate. Then Obama was again, at least from a foreign policy perspective, the better candidate, in spite of what he had done in Libya. At least he chickened out of Syria. I’m not sure Romney wouldn’t have attacked Syria. Then in 2016 came Trump.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    I don’t think it’s useful to blame a people for behaving the way people have behaved since time immemorial. Most (basically, all) peoples are sheeples.
     
    I think that's rather naïve, to be honest, even if I have said it myself many times before :-)

    A lot of the people who support modern interventionist wars (in the US and elsewhere) are not "sheeple", they are people who genuinely like the idea of bombing foreigners when it's reasonably safe for them to do so, or feel it's their duty to do so out of some religious or ideological or patriotic (not necessarily American) motivation, or are too easily scared into feeling they have to support mass murder for their own safety.

    It's not useful to live one's life in some hippy dream that if only the people could be told the truth they will come around.

    The Americans have often elected the less warmonger of the two
     
    But only after any genuinely non-interventionist candidates have been ridiculed away from any chance at office by charges of being naïve, or a nutter, or uncaring or dangerously cavalier with their nation's vital military security. Charges that clearly resonate with a very large proportion of the electorate.

    A significant proportion of the voters for Bush II and Trump (and every other US President) are actively supporters of the use of military power, just not necessarily in every circumstance. Most of the rest really aren't interested in foreign policy as long as their side isn't seen to lose. By the time it comes to reelection, he will be an incumbent, and he'll win anyway as long as he doesn't preside over a period of undue economic hardship (in which case he'll lose anyway).

    And the result is that once in office, the president or senator knows he can safely ignore the small proportion of his vote that was genuinely opposed to military activism and get on with pandering to the various interventionist and militarist lobbies. (Trump might be the exception on that, given how uniquely vulnerable he will be to impeachment if he doesn't maintain a reasonable level of core support - but then again the more he panders to the war lobbies the less hard they will try to get him replaced).

    Trump looks likely to have been the final straw. It really is time to move on from Republican and Democrat politics for any honest opponent of US military interventionism.

    The real conundrum is: how do you constrain a supposed democracy from acting as a military aggressor when the voters are by and large as happy as the oligarchs for its government to be such?
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  43. Rurik says:

    that’s my nationality

    well, not to split hairs, but I’d say that’s your ethnicity

    your nationality apparently is American of the US variety, (I guess)

    the only way Americans are exceptional is that we’re exceptionally lied to and dumbed down and marinated and forced to wallow in 24/7, 364 cultural sewage

    that’s what makes us exceptional

    we’re taxed for Eternal Wars for Israel, and scolded 24/7 for our sins vis-a-vis slavery and the Holocaust, for which we have to pay annual tithes in support of museums that document our (white, Gentile) heinous and eternal crimes against the chosen

    we have our children ground up as cannon fodder in wars for Israel and are made debt slaves to the ((banksters)) for loans we never see any benefit from

    our good name is blackened by an elite that is the moral incarnation of the banality of evil

    it’s sooo fun being an ‘exceptional American’, as our communities are transformed into ethnic enclaves of hatred and strife, and our children’s souls rotted by pop culture offal, we also get to be blamed for all the wars our Zio-whores in congress drag us into. Such a deal!

    I think I’ll go turn on the ballgame and crack open a Budweiser

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    Hmm if you open two I'll join you...
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  44. El Dato says:
    @blah blah teleblah
    A NATO that never expanded beyond Germany would help keep the peace with Russia, but for reasons that are often misunderstood. The thing that any Russian statesman, including Putin, fears more than anything is a truly independent Germany, i.e. a Germany whose military is not constrained by the United States. Right now, Germany is more or less a pacifistic nation. However, who knows what happens if the influx of refugees accelerates, there's some sort of economic collapse or some other shock. The last thing Russia wants is an angry Germany free to re-arm as it wishes and perhaps with nuclear weapons. As long as Germany is in NATO, and to a lesser extent the EU, it's freedom to do that sort of thing is severely limited.

    I imagine that there's a similar dynamic between Japan and China. While China sometimes saber rattles a bit against Japan when it wants to whip up public sentiment in one direction or another, it probably realizes that its security is ultimately guaranteed by the US's de facto military dominance of Japan.

    Maintaining this dominance of Japan and Germany costs a pretty penny, but it has made another European war or another Sino-Japanese war seem unthinkable. Small price to pay I guess.

    The times of Tojo are over.

    WWII Japan could expand into a weak, fragmented and warlord-controlled China. It could (actually, had to, to break the US economic stranglehold) into the Pacific with low-tech, cheap & cheerful, barely past-iron-age wargear (and the story might have been over before it even started if some “looking the other way” shenanigans hadn’t gone on regarding Pearl Harbor)

    These times are very gone.

    Any extensive aggro movement by Japan would make it a toasty critter in few hours.

    Same with Germany. And I don’t see any reason for a confrontation between Germany and Russia either, the times of the Total Socialisms is gone, too. We hope. Might as well talk of another war between France and Germany. HAH! “Oh hey, we are in your capital in 15 minutes or so….”

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  45. Randal says:
    @Rurik

    Americans have repeatedly elected and re-elected open warmongers such as McCain
     
    you got me there

    for the life of me I can't explain how any sane person could pull the lever for that man


    3 Even to the extent there is any truth in the claim that Americans have repeatedly voted for peace only to be fooled by lying warmongers, that merely emphasises the stupidity aspect of the American people over the evil aspect
     
    I'm not saying Americans aren't stupid. By and large, they are. But no more so than any other people. And they certainly are not evil. It is our Zio-government that is evil. Just like England's. Or France's or Germany's.

    I guess what's a little off-putting is the knee-jerk antipathy of so many people for the average schmo in America who has no power to control anything, but who gets all the blame for all the evil that our demonic government perpetrates all over the world, because somehow, since we have the vote, we're supposed to only elect good people. Which is what we always try to do, but then these politicians always turn out rotten because they're corrupted by the money men. (Just like in England or Germany) And I suspect that many of us Americans, hate these traitorous scum even more than someone like you does. But rather than blame the traitorous scum, there are a lot of people who'd prefer to blame the janitors and waitresses and welders and secretaries than blame the Obama's and Dick Cheney's who really are the super-criminals.

    You can pooh-pooh the American people for voting against the wars, and suggest that they "take ownership of that responsibility", but I'd really like to know how you expect us to do that. Would you have us take to arms? Raise the black flag? Start slitting throats? (actually I suspect there are a lot of Americans that would like to do exactly that ; )

    We voted for Trump because he said he was against the wars. Trump is a famous billionaire and has the means to run for president. Most of us Americans don't. All we can do is vote for the guy who says he's against the wars, and then hope for the best. Perhaps he'll do the right thing, and perhaps not. But if he doesn't, then at least we can be sure that there will be a lot of smug people the world over who will want to place the blame squarely on the working schmo in America for not controlling the MIC/neocons/msm/Federal Reserve better.

    for the life of me I can’t explain how any sane person could pull the lever for that man

    John McCain, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, elected to Congress in 1982 largely on the basis of military background (personal and family), acted as a fairly consistent warmonger and advocate of military action and confrontation, to the general approval of Republican voters in Arizona who reelected him to the House in 1984 with 78% of the vote, and then to the Senate in 1986 with 60% of the vote, reelected him in 1992 with 56%, and again in 1998 with 69% after voting to bomb Bosnian Serbs, again in 2004 by a whopping 77% after voting for both the evil Kosovo aggression and the colossally stupid Iraq aggression, again in 2010 after openly promoting military action in Iraq and in Afghanistan and pretty much coming out as a fully fledged R2P “humanitarian” interventionist zealot, and finally in 2016 with 53% of the vote after openly supporting military aggression in Libya and Syria, and openly pushing for it in Ukraine.

    Looks to me like American Republican voters, in Arizona anyway, like their government to walk loudly and swing a big stick at every opportunity.

    Something similar could be written about the careers of quite a few senior US politicians, starting with Lindsey Graham but certainly not limited to Republicans.

    guess what’s a little off-putting is the knee-jerk antipathy of so many people for the average schmo in America who has no power to control anything

    I think it’s something to do with the rest of us having been bombarded with propaganda about how the US is the exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill, where government is of the people, by the people and for the people, the land of the free and home of the brave, and told that you above all peoples have supposedly retained both the right and the ability (via the 2nd Amendment) to change your government when it no longer represents you.

    No personal offence intended (and I’ve every respect for you as a commenter here in general, you talk a lot of well informed sense), but that sits ill with whining about having been “deceived”, time after time after time.

    I’d really like to know how you expect us to do that. Would you have us take to arms? Raise the black flag? Start slitting throats? (actually I suspect there are a lot of Americans that would like to do exactly that ; )

    Well at least stopping supporting the institutional structures that enable the warmongering, in the Republican and Democrat parties, and voting third party in larger numbers, would be a start. The fact is that more than enough Americans just like bombing foreigners, or think it really is their sacred duty to do so, or are easily scared into supporting it, to ensure that the small numbers voting for Democrat or Republican politicians on the basis of vague indications of foreign policy reasonableness will always be ignore once in office. Trump seemed to perhaps be the exception to that rule, so I don’t blame those who supported him (quite the contrary, give the alternative). But it’s looking increasingly as though he’s merely the final proof of it.

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    I think it’s something to do with the rest of us having been bombarded with propaganda about how the US is the exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill, where government is of the people, by the people and for the people, the land of the free and home of the brave, ...
     
    yea, I know

    but I still say if we're lied to, it's not the same as deliberately perpetrating war crimes

    there is a difference imho

    No personal offence intended (and I’ve every respect for you as a commenter here in general, you talk a lot of well informed sense),
     
    right back at cha

    but that sits ill with whining about having been “deceived”, time after time after time.
     
    I'm not whining about being deceived, I'm whining about my nation being deceived, (by 24/7 Zionist lies)

    let me ask you, (and you can answer on another forum, since this thread is sort of dead) when you first heard about 9/11, did you realize that is was perpetrated by Israel and the CIA? Or were you deceived at first into thinking it was Muslims?

    And if you were deceived, do you blame yourself personally?
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  46. Randal says:
    @reiner Tor
    I don't think it's useful to blame a people for behaving the way people have behaved since time immemorial. Most (basically, all) peoples are sheeples.

    The Americans have often elected the less warmonger of the two, in fact, since 2000, only once, in 2004, did they elect the more warmongering candidate. In 2000, Dubya was running from a quasi isolationist platform. In 2008, Obama was obviously the better choice, don't forget, it was the deranged McCain who was the other candidate. Then Obama was again, at least from a foreign policy perspective, the better candidate, in spite of what he had done in Libya. At least he chickened out of Syria. I'm not sure Romney wouldn't have attacked Syria. Then in 2016 came Trump.

    I don’t think it’s useful to blame a people for behaving the way people have behaved since time immemorial. Most (basically, all) peoples are sheeples.

    I think that’s rather naïve, to be honest, even if I have said it myself many times before :-)

    A lot of the people who support modern interventionist wars (in the US and elsewhere) are not “sheeple”, they are people who genuinely like the idea of bombing foreigners when it’s reasonably safe for them to do so, or feel it’s their duty to do so out of some religious or ideological or patriotic (not necessarily American) motivation, or are too easily scared into feeling they have to support mass murder for their own safety.

    It’s not useful to live one’s life in some hippy dream that if only the people could be told the truth they will come around.

    The Americans have often elected the less warmonger of the two

    But only after any genuinely non-interventionist candidates have been ridiculed away from any chance at office by charges of being naïve, or a nutter, or uncaring or dangerously cavalier with their nation’s vital military security. Charges that clearly resonate with a very large proportion of the electorate.

    A significant proportion of the voters for Bush II and Trump (and every other US President) are actively supporters of the use of military power, just not necessarily in every circumstance. Most of the rest really aren’t interested in foreign policy as long as their side isn’t seen to lose. By the time it comes to reelection, he will be an incumbent, and he’ll win anyway as long as he doesn’t preside over a period of undue economic hardship (in which case he’ll lose anyway).

    And the result is that once in office, the president or senator knows he can safely ignore the small proportion of his vote that was genuinely opposed to military activism and get on with pandering to the various interventionist and militarist lobbies. (Trump might be the exception on that, given how uniquely vulnerable he will be to impeachment if he doesn’t maintain a reasonable level of core support – but then again the more he panders to the war lobbies the less hard they will try to get him replaced).

    Trump looks likely to have been the final straw. It really is time to move on from Republican and Democrat politics for any honest opponent of US military interventionism.

    The real conundrum is: how do you constrain a supposed democracy from acting as a military aggressor when the voters are by and large as happy as the oligarchs for its government to be such?

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    Most peoples around the world like tough leaders and strong militaries kicking the asses of supposed enemies. So you're still blaming them for being like most peoples around the world.
    , @Achmed E. Newman

    But only after any genuinely non-interventionist candidates have been ridiculed away from any chance at office by charges of being naive, or a nutter, or uncaring or dangerously cavalier with their nation’s vital military security.
     
    Yes, but the Ron Pauls and Ross Perots have been ridiculed and minimized by Neocons in the Lyin' Press over many years, so this goes back to the same thing: People are pretty ignorant and don't think they must pay attention. They'd better start, and I think things are changing already. The www has been around for everyone 2 decades now, but things don't turn on a dime.

    Just today, a friend told me that on this college football following website dealy, on the political forum part, almost all of the commenters were against us having anything to do with war in Syria. This is on a FOOTBALL site, mind you, but sure, just an anecdote.
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  47. bluedog says:
    @Rurik

    that’s my nationality
     
    well, not to split hairs, but I'd say that's your ethnicity

    your nationality apparently is American of the US variety, (I guess)

    the only way Americans are exceptional is that we're exceptionally lied to and dumbed down and marinated and forced to wallow in 24/7, 364 cultural sewage

    that's what makes us exceptional

    we're taxed for Eternal Wars for Israel, and scolded 24/7 for our sins vis-a-vis slavery and the Holocaust, for which we have to pay annual tithes in support of museums that document our (white, Gentile) heinous and eternal crimes against the chosen

    we have our children ground up as cannon fodder in wars for Israel and are made debt slaves to the ((banksters)) for loans we never see any benefit from

    our good name is blackened by an elite that is the moral incarnation of the banality of evil

    it's sooo fun being an 'exceptional American', as our communities are transformed into ethnic enclaves of hatred and strife, and our children's souls rotted by pop culture offal, we also get to be blamed for all the wars our Zio-whores in congress drag us into. Such a deal!

    I think I'll go turn on the ballgame and crack open a Budweiser

    Hmm if you open two I’ll join you…

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    it'd be my pleasure bluedog : )
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  48. @Randal

    I don’t think it’s useful to blame a people for behaving the way people have behaved since time immemorial. Most (basically, all) peoples are sheeples.
     
    I think that's rather naïve, to be honest, even if I have said it myself many times before :-)

    A lot of the people who support modern interventionist wars (in the US and elsewhere) are not "sheeple", they are people who genuinely like the idea of bombing foreigners when it's reasonably safe for them to do so, or feel it's their duty to do so out of some religious or ideological or patriotic (not necessarily American) motivation, or are too easily scared into feeling they have to support mass murder for their own safety.

    It's not useful to live one's life in some hippy dream that if only the people could be told the truth they will come around.

    The Americans have often elected the less warmonger of the two
     
    But only after any genuinely non-interventionist candidates have been ridiculed away from any chance at office by charges of being naïve, or a nutter, or uncaring or dangerously cavalier with their nation's vital military security. Charges that clearly resonate with a very large proportion of the electorate.

    A significant proportion of the voters for Bush II and Trump (and every other US President) are actively supporters of the use of military power, just not necessarily in every circumstance. Most of the rest really aren't interested in foreign policy as long as their side isn't seen to lose. By the time it comes to reelection, he will be an incumbent, and he'll win anyway as long as he doesn't preside over a period of undue economic hardship (in which case he'll lose anyway).

    And the result is that once in office, the president or senator knows he can safely ignore the small proportion of his vote that was genuinely opposed to military activism and get on with pandering to the various interventionist and militarist lobbies. (Trump might be the exception on that, given how uniquely vulnerable he will be to impeachment if he doesn't maintain a reasonable level of core support - but then again the more he panders to the war lobbies the less hard they will try to get him replaced).

    Trump looks likely to have been the final straw. It really is time to move on from Republican and Democrat politics for any honest opponent of US military interventionism.

    The real conundrum is: how do you constrain a supposed democracy from acting as a military aggressor when the voters are by and large as happy as the oligarchs for its government to be such?

    Most peoples around the world like tough leaders and strong militaries kicking the asses of supposed enemies. So you’re still blaming them for being like most peoples around the world.

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  49. Rurik says:
    @bluedog
    Hmm if you open two I'll join you...

    it’d be my pleasure bluedog : )

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  50. Rurik says:
    @Randal

    for the life of me I can’t explain how any sane person could pull the lever for that man
     
    John McCain, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, elected to Congress in 1982 largely on the basis of military background (personal and family), acted as a fairly consistent warmonger and advocate of military action and confrontation, to the general approval of Republican voters in Arizona who reelected him to the House in 1984 with 78% of the vote, and then to the Senate in 1986 with 60% of the vote, reelected him in 1992 with 56%, and again in 1998 with 69% after voting to bomb Bosnian Serbs, again in 2004 by a whopping 77% after voting for both the evil Kosovo aggression and the colossally stupid Iraq aggression, again in 2010 after openly promoting military action in Iraq and in Afghanistan and pretty much coming out as a fully fledged R2P "humanitarian" interventionist zealot, and finally in 2016 with 53% of the vote after openly supporting military aggression in Libya and Syria, and openly pushing for it in Ukraine.

    Looks to me like American Republican voters, in Arizona anyway, like their government to walk loudly and swing a big stick at every opportunity.

    Something similar could be written about the careers of quite a few senior US politicians, starting with Lindsey Graham but certainly not limited to Republicans.


    guess what’s a little off-putting is the knee-jerk antipathy of so many people for the average schmo in America who has no power to control anything
     
    I think it's something to do with the rest of us having been bombarded with propaganda about how the US is the exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill, where government is of the people, by the people and for the people, the land of the free and home of the brave, and told that you above all peoples have supposedly retained both the right and the ability (via the 2nd Amendment) to change your government when it no longer represents you.

    No personal offence intended (and I've every respect for you as a commenter here in general, you talk a lot of well informed sense), but that sits ill with whining about having been "deceived", time after time after time.

    I’d really like to know how you expect us to do that. Would you have us take to arms? Raise the black flag? Start slitting throats? (actually I suspect there are a lot of Americans that would like to do exactly that ; )
     
    Well at least stopping supporting the institutional structures that enable the warmongering, in the Republican and Democrat parties, and voting third party in larger numbers, would be a start. The fact is that more than enough Americans just like bombing foreigners, or think it really is their sacred duty to do so, or are easily scared into supporting it, to ensure that the small numbers voting for Democrat or Republican politicians on the basis of vague indications of foreign policy reasonableness will always be ignore once in office. Trump seemed to perhaps be the exception to that rule, so I don't blame those who supported him (quite the contrary, give the alternative). But it's looking increasingly as though he's merely the final proof of it.

    I think it’s something to do with the rest of us having been bombarded with propaganda about how the US is the exceptional nation, the shining city on the hill, where government is of the people, by the people and for the people, the land of the free and home of the brave, …

    yea, I know

    but I still say if we’re lied to, it’s not the same as deliberately perpetrating war crimes

    there is a difference imho

    No personal offence intended (and I’ve every respect for you as a commenter here in general, you talk a lot of well informed sense),

    right back at cha

    but that sits ill with whining about having been “deceived”, time after time after time.

    I’m not whining about being deceived, I’m whining about my nation being deceived, (by 24/7 Zionist lies)

    let me ask you, (and you can answer on another forum, since this thread is sort of dead) when you first heard about 9/11, did you realize that is was perpetrated by Israel and the CIA? Or were you deceived at first into thinking it was Muslims?

    And if you were deceived, do you blame yourself personally?

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  51. @Corvinus
    Apparently, you don't understand nuance.

    "I think, Corvinus, that you should read zerohedge and its commenters or peakstupidity for a few years, and you will understand what is really going on."

    Propaganda at its finest, just like HuffPo or MSNBC.

    "By then our country will be lost, though, so it won’t matter."

    Ye of little faith. So, what are you specifically doing to stop our country from being lost, considering that you "get it" compared to the dumb masses? Or are you simply riding out in its decline?

    I’m not just gonna ride it out, Corvinus. I don’t particularly like that “enjoy the decline” guy (can’t remember his website name, but I read it a year or two back for a while). It’d be OK, I guess, if you have no love for the people and the land anymore, no kids/grandkids and are single. If I were that guy, I’d pick Uruguay, and I will say that I was looking up things about that country about 2 years back, before Derbyshire brought it up a few times. 90% white people – what a concept!

    So, what are you specifically doing to stop our country from being lost, considering that you “get it” compared to the dumb masses?

    I don’t think the masses are all dumb, I think most are uninformed. No use divulging info about what I am going to do – this is not a prepper site. There’s lot of them – you could learn something there, but to me zerohedge lays out the big picture of the financial pain to come (or at least the reasons for it, not exactly how things will go down) pretty well, were you to read it for a year or 2.

    Why do you keep mentioning the “nuance”?

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  52. @mikhas
    "Why Is Kim Jong Un Our Problem?"

    Well, since you killed several millions of Koreans during that war, you might be a problem to Koreans have you though about that? Certainly North Koreans but N.K decided long ago to settle that with a peace treaty being signed between US and N.K (and S.K) so they can go on with their lives, unite and prosper as one nation.

    But this has been denied them continuously by several US regimes for 60 years already because you need a hold on China and a Raison d’Etre to be to be there.
    Get the F out and leave these people at peace.

    so they can go on with their lives, unite and prosper as one nation.

    How’s that working out for the N. Koreans? haha, that has nothing to do with the US and much to do with what happens when then socialists let things escalate into tyranny.

    Get the F out and leave these people at peace

    Absolutely leave them the F alone and get out, but “peace” is not the be all to end all for a poor Kim Smoe in the North there. They’d be much better off living in violence and taking that crazy-assed ruling family down from their positions and hanging them.

    Peace with no food is not what it’s cracked up to be, Mikhas. Ask 40,000,000 people that lived under Mao without any more food and died after the tree bark and grass didn’t give them the amount of calories it takes to sustain life. Oh, wait, you can’t

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  53. @Randal

    I don’t think it’s useful to blame a people for behaving the way people have behaved since time immemorial. Most (basically, all) peoples are sheeples.
     
    I think that's rather naïve, to be honest, even if I have said it myself many times before :-)

    A lot of the people who support modern interventionist wars (in the US and elsewhere) are not "sheeple", they are people who genuinely like the idea of bombing foreigners when it's reasonably safe for them to do so, or feel it's their duty to do so out of some religious or ideological or patriotic (not necessarily American) motivation, or are too easily scared into feeling they have to support mass murder for their own safety.

    It's not useful to live one's life in some hippy dream that if only the people could be told the truth they will come around.

    The Americans have often elected the less warmonger of the two
     
    But only after any genuinely non-interventionist candidates have been ridiculed away from any chance at office by charges of being naïve, or a nutter, or uncaring or dangerously cavalier with their nation's vital military security. Charges that clearly resonate with a very large proportion of the electorate.

    A significant proportion of the voters for Bush II and Trump (and every other US President) are actively supporters of the use of military power, just not necessarily in every circumstance. Most of the rest really aren't interested in foreign policy as long as their side isn't seen to lose. By the time it comes to reelection, he will be an incumbent, and he'll win anyway as long as he doesn't preside over a period of undue economic hardship (in which case he'll lose anyway).

    And the result is that once in office, the president or senator knows he can safely ignore the small proportion of his vote that was genuinely opposed to military activism and get on with pandering to the various interventionist and militarist lobbies. (Trump might be the exception on that, given how uniquely vulnerable he will be to impeachment if he doesn't maintain a reasonable level of core support - but then again the more he panders to the war lobbies the less hard they will try to get him replaced).

    Trump looks likely to have been the final straw. It really is time to move on from Republican and Democrat politics for any honest opponent of US military interventionism.

    The real conundrum is: how do you constrain a supposed democracy from acting as a military aggressor when the voters are by and large as happy as the oligarchs for its government to be such?

    But only after any genuinely non-interventionist candidates have been ridiculed away from any chance at office by charges of being naive, or a nutter, or uncaring or dangerously cavalier with their nation’s vital military security.

    Yes, but the Ron Pauls and Ross Perots have been ridiculed and minimized by Neocons in the Lyin’ Press over many years, so this goes back to the same thing: People are pretty ignorant and don’t think they must pay attention. They’d better start, and I think things are changing already. The www has been around for everyone 2 decades now, but things don’t turn on a dime.

    Just today, a friend told me that on this college football following website dealy, on the political forum part, almost all of the commenters were against us having anything to do with war in Syria. This is on a FOOTBALL site, mind you, but sure, just an anecdote.

    Read More
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