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Trump: War President or Anti-Interventionist?
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Visualizing 150 Iranian dead from a missile strike that he had ordered, President Donald Trump recoiled and canceled the strike, a brave decision and defining moment for his presidency.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, John Bolton and Vice President Mike Pence had signed off on the strike on Iran as the right response to Tehran’s shootdown of a U.S. Global Hawk spy plane over the Gulf of Oman.

The U.S. claims the drone was over international waters. Tehran says it was in Iranian territory. But while the loss of a $100 million drone is no small matter, no American pilot was lost, and retaliating by killing 150 Iranians would appear to be a disproportionate response.

Good for Trump. Yet, all weekend, he was berated for chickening out and imitating President Barack Obama. U.S. credibility, it was said, has taken a big hit and must be restored with military action.

By canceling the strike, the president also sent a message to Iran: We’re ready to negotiate. Yet, given the irreconcilable character of our clashing demands, it is hard to see how the U.S. and Iran get off this road we are on, at the end of which a military collision seems almost certain.

Consider the respective demands.

Monday, the president tweeted: “The U.S. request for Iran is very simple — No Nuclear Weapons and No Further Sponsoring of Terror!”

But Iran has no nuclear weapons, has never had nuclear weapons, and has never even produced bomb-grade uranium.

According to our own intelligence agencies in 2007 and 2011, Tehran did not even have a nuclear weapons program.

Under the 2015 nuclear deal, the JCPOA, the only way Iran could have a nuclear weapons program would be in secret, outside its known nuclear facilities, all of which are under constant U.N. inspection.

Where is the evidence that any such secret program exists?

And if it does, why does America not tell the world where Iran’s secret nuclear facilities are located and demand immediate inspections?

“No further sponsoring of terror,” Trump says.

But what does that mean?

As the major Shiite power in a Middle East divided between Sunni and Shiite, Iran backs the Houthi rebels in Yemen’s civil war, Shiite Hezbollah in Lebanon, Alawite Bashar Assad in Syria, and the Shiite militias in Iraq who helped us stop ISIS’s drive to Baghdad.

In his 12 demands, Pompeo virtually insisted that Iran abandon these allies and capitulate to their Sunni adversaries and rivals.

Not going to happen. Yet, if these demands are nonnegotiable, to be backed up by sanctions severe enough to choke Iran’s economy to death, we will be headed for war.

No more than North Korea is Iran going to yield to U.S. demands that it abandon what Iran sees as vital national interests.

ORDER IT NOW

As for the U.S. charge that Iran is “destabilizing” the Middle East, it was not Iran that invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, overthrew the Gadhafi regime in Libya, armed rebels to overthrow Assad in Syria, or aided and abetted the Saudis’ intervention in Yemen’s civil war.

Iran, pushed to the wall, its economy shrinking as inflation and unemployment are rising, is approaching the limits of its tolerance.

And as Iran suffers pain, it is saying, other nations in the Gulf will endure similar pain, as will the USA. At some point, collisions will produce casualties and we will be on the up escalator to war.

Yet, what vital interest of ours does Iran today threaten?

Trump, with his order to stand down on the missile strike on Iran, signaled that he wanted a pause in the confrontation.

Still, it needs to be said: The president himself authorized the steps that have brought us to this peril point.

Trump pulled out of and trashed Obama’s nuclear deal. He imposed the sanctions that are now inflicting something close to unacceptable if not intolerable pain on Iran. He had the Islamic Revolutionary Guard declared a terrorist organization. He sent the Abraham Lincoln carrier task force and B-52s to the Gulf region.

If war is to be avoided, either Iran is going to have to capitulate, or the U.S. is going to have to walk back its maximalist position.

And who would Trump name to negotiate with Tehran for the United States?

The longer the sanctions remain in place and the deeper they bite, the greater the likelihood Iran will respond to our economic warfare with its own asymmetric warfare. Has the president decided to take that risk?

We appear to be at a turning point in the Trump presidency.

Does he want to run in 2020 as the president who led us into war with Iran, or as the anti-interventionist president who began to bring U.S. troops home from that region that has produced so many wars?

Perhaps Congress, the branch of government designated by the Constitution to decide on war, should instruct President Trump as to the conditions under which he is authorized to take us to war with Iran.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2019 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Donald Trump, Iran 
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  1. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:

    “Perhaps Congress, the branch of government designated by the Constitution to decide on war, should instruct President Trump as to the conditions under which he is authorized to take us to war with Iran.”

    Do you mean, like, a declaration? What President Reagan didn’t need to rescue our medical students in Grenada from the Marxist thugs?

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
  2. anon[329] • Disclaimer says:

    Trump doesn’t drink.

    Ralph Fiennes: “You’re never drunk. That’s control. Control is power.”
    […]
    Liam Neeson: “Power is when we have every justification to kill, and we don’t.”

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  3. @anonymous

    “Perhaps Congress, the branch of government designated by the Constitution to decide on war, should instruct President Trump as to the conditions under which he is authorized to take us to war with Iran.”

    Congress has an even lower credibility rating that the president.

    Moreover, if the decision whether to wage war on Iran were vested in the Congress (the Constitutionally proper approach), how do you suppose the jackanapes who bobbed for Bibi 27 times would vote?

    The only time the US Congress comes together is when the issue is some benefit for Israel.

    Trump is the only resistance.
    Does that scare the crap out of you?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Rurik
    , @gsjackson
  4. peterAUS says:

    It’s just me, probably, but I am getting an impression that the author is starting to feel a bit desperate
    I mean, expecting from Trump and, OMG, US Congress to prevent an armed conflict with Iran is just, no offense to the author, just surreal.

    The best course of action for most of us here not even in USA would be to try to hedge against the fallout from the conflict.
    Hehehe….did I say “fallout”?
    It won’t come to that I am sure. Say…….95 %.
    Still, those 5 % …..

    That the life will become a little bit more interesting, it will.

    Much less interesting for cannon fodder and/or collateral damage in the region.

  5. Hail says: • Website

    what vital interest of ours does Iran today threaten?

    Good question, Mr. Buchanan.

    Incidentally, I note that the word “Israel” makes zero appearances in this article.

  6. anon19 says:
    @Hail

    Iran does not threaten America. It possibly threatens the people who CONTROL America. Its Jewish-lobby.

  7. @Hail

    Buchanan doesn’t point to the big gorilla in the room because he was denounced as an antiSemite for doing it in the first Gulf War, and he’s obviously wary. One other patriotic American writer, Paul Craig Roberts, used to be reluctant to name the big gorilla, but I have noticed that now he does, frequently.

  8. ““The U.S. request for Iran is very simple — No Nuclear Weapons and No Further Sponsoring of Terror!””

    Sounds like good demands to place on Israel.

    “Does he want to run in 2020 as the president who led us into war with Iran, or as the anti-interventionist president who began to bring U.S. troops home from that region that has produced so many wars?”

    The region hasn’t produced any wars, but Israel has.

    Pat, why is it so hard for you to even mention Israel?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Carroll Price
  9. Rurik says:

    Yet, what vital interest of ours does Iran today threaten?

    Six million was not enough for Patrick J. Buchannan!

    Trump, with his order to stand down on the missile strike on Iran, signaled that he wanted a pause in the confrontation.

    What he signaled is that he is Neville Chamberlain reincarnated.

    And here I thought it was Putin that was Adolf Hitler! I guess trump is jealous, and doesn’t want Vlad (and Maduro!) to be the only Hitler!!

    or the U.S. is going to have to walk back its maximalist position.

    you can have Czechoslovakia and Austria and here’s a hundred and thirty billion while you’re at it! You’re going to need that money to build that bomb so Trump can finish the Final Solution!!!

    Perhaps Congress, the branch of government designated by the Constitution to decide on war, should instruct President Trump as to the conditions under which he is authorized to take us to war with Iran.


    Good column. Which way Mr. President?

    • Replies: @anon19
    , @Christo
  10. anon19 says:
    @Rurik

    What is truly scary is how many people think like you or listen to your drivel.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  11. swamped says:

    Remarkably fine article. Everything you need to know about U.S/Iran in 1,000 words or less. Best of all, it could just as well be published in ‘The Nation’.
    “As for the U.S. charge that Iran is ‘destabilizing’ the Middle East, it was not Iran that invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, overthrew the Gadhafi regime in Libya, armed rebels to overthrow Assad in Syria, or aided and abetted the Saudis’ intervention in Yemen’s civil war.” hear, hear!
    “Iran, pushed to the wall, its economy shrinking as inflation and unemployment are rising, is approaching the limits of its tolerance.” Believe it!This is where Right meets Left, the ‘grand coalition’ the late Alexander Cockburn used to dream about.The anti-war movement re-born!
    And who’s to stop them? Just about everybody. Joe Biden, B. Sanders, E. Warren, et.al.; all more interested in bashing the President & making sure never to side with him, no matter what the risk of war. As well as his plotting lieutenants, Mike Pompeo, John Bolton and Vice President Mike Pence who”had signed off on the strike”. And the repellent neo-con’s at New Republic & National Review & NYT & followers, that make up the permanent War coalition. Along with the spineless Pelosi & Schumer comedy team who can’t be distracted from doling out patronage. So don’t expect much out of the creaky congress.
    Pat, you make too much sense. How could you put up with Washington all these years?

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  12. Trump is a fucking moron. He thinks the Persians will surrender without a fight. His Vice President, Secretary Of State and National Security Advisor are war mongers. I could wish for his impeachment but his enemies are no better. The only elected officials in Washington who are not in thrall to Israel are the newly elected Communists.

  13. Visualizing 150 Iranian dead from a missile strike that he had ordered, President Donald Trump recoiled and canceled the strike, a brave decision and defining moment for his presidency.

    Yeah, sure … that’s the official explanation. More likely that Trump learned that at least one of our aircraft entered Iranian airspace, making it a righteous shoot; or, maybe someone whispered in Trump’s ear that in 1988 the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner while it was still in Iranian airspace, and he decided he didn’t want to add another 150 to the 290 already dead lest the Iranians start to really shoot back. The minute we lose a carrier, it is game over, so we don’t want to actually put ourselves in that position.

    • Agree: Realist
    • Replies: @follyofwar
  14. anon[252] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Pat, why is it so hard for you to even mention Israel?

    He worships the Jews.

    • “We worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.” —John 4:22

    • “To the Jews ‘belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship…’” —Catechism of the Catholic Church

    • Replies: @nsa
  15. ‘…it is hard to see how the U.S. and Iran get off this road we are on, at the end of which a military collision seems almost certain.’ It is always competing interests that drives nations to war, ultimately in response to a perceived existential threat. Being fatalistic, if there is no way of preventing war, is there any hope of stopping nuclear war with Russia and China? Both countries have vital interest to protect and so will back Tehran; not to mention other potential flashpoints such as the South China Sea or Europe. Pat Buchanan is right to call on Congress to step in, if they want to prevent Armageddon, as the pattern of history points to another world war.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  16. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Yeah, some “resistance.” If President Trump were ever legitimately opposed to the Empire, that didn’t survive his woodshedding after Helsinki last July. (And he always would have been among the last to stop clapping for Bibi.)

    This “10 minutes before launch” stuff is almost certainly orchestrated. I would rather put my hope in the thought that Uncle Sam will figure out that he doesn’t want this fight.

  17. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Trump is the only resistance.

    Does that scare the crap out of you?

    you want scary, S2C?

    Please remember her cackling over Gadhafi’s bloody death, and think of the bullet we all barely dodged.

    Even today, there are throngs of people who’d prefer Hillary had won, wars and all.

    That’s what I find scary.

  18. Rurik says:
    @anon19

    What is truly scary is how many people think like you

    ooh, some hurt feeling out there?

    You don’t like me pointing out that Pat Buchannan doesn’t care that Iran is planning a second Holocaust?

    How many times does Bibi have to tell you about Iran’s nuclear bombs before you anti-Semites stop goose stepping long enough to save your own lives?

    Are you bothered how I tell the truth that Trump is Neville Chamberlain for appeasing the Mullahs, and hoping he can prevent a Holocaust by begging and pleading and acting weak, even as they blow our planes out of the skies and assassinate our CIA assets?

    Who cares where exactly the United States of Zio-America was flying our plane?!

    Let me say that again, so it sinks in… The United States of Zio-America, boy!

    The nation of god’s people who single handedly saved Europe’s arse, not once, but twice!

    They’d all be goose stepping to Deutschland uber alles’, if it weren’t for us, and now we have to save Europe and the Jews from gas chambers again, because Europeans are too pantywast to upset Hitler/Putin over there in Russia shooting down planes and invading Ukraine and putting all gays in prisons. All while Europe cowers in the corner, doing their best appeasement act.

    Well, not the Exceptional People! We are the Z.U.S. of America! son. We’re not just going to sit around while Iran and Russia build gas chambers! We’re not just going to sit around while Europe wrings its fag hands, while the Jews are marched into ovens again!

    But don’t worry, we’re used to saving Europe and Israel and so many others from Adolf Hitler. Whether Hitler manifests himself as Saddam Hussein or Gadhafi or Bashar Assad or Nicolas Maduro. So go ahead and crawl under your bed, and beg the Mullahs not to gas you too, as they’re planning (and succeeding with your help) in taking over America- and on that day son, you’ll be glad there were some Americans still out there, who can shout ZUSA! ZUSA!! like we mean it!

    • LOL: gsjackson, anon19
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  19. @swamped

    If Mr. Trump really sought honest negotiations with Iran, a necessary first step would be to immediately fire John Bolton, who has been nothing but an albatross around his neck. Then, if that act would not be enough to straighten out Pompeo, he should be next. The problem with firing Pompeo, however, is that Trump would have to quickly nominate a new candidate, and the Senate runs slower than molasses. The US hasn’t even had a SecDef since General Mattis (a voice of moderation) was pushed out six months ago, and Pompeo has stepped in to fill the void, essentially running both departments.

    • Agree: SeekerofthePresence
  20. As it seems, Pat Buchanan still has confidence in Congress, but this gathering of bought politicians is a joke. President Trump is surrounded by ardent Zionist, who follows the orders of Benjamin Netanyahu. He is the man in charge behind the scene and guides Bolton, Pompeo, Pence, Kushner, what have you. They all want war at the expense of America. These lower class soldiers have to spend their lives for the racist Zionist regime. America’s Middle Eastern policy is driven and directed by Israel. It shouldn’t surprise anybody that it is so messy. For Israel’s sake, the US attacked Iraq, and now it’s supporting the murderous Saudi regime, which brought famine and misery upon the Yemeni people. When Trump, Pompeo, and their ilk talk about Iran as the mains “sponsor of terrorism,” they should take a closer look at the so-called allies, Israel and Saudi Arabia. They are the ones that spread misery around in the region. The Zionist regime has been subjugating the Palestinian people for the last 70 years in the name of democracy. If the US backs Israeli democracy style, the Palestinians have no other choice than keep up their struggle for independence and freedom. Trump should kick Bolton, Pompeo, and Pence in the pants because these political rascals will lead the US directly into the war.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  21. @The Alarmist

    If Trump is so worried about 150 dead Iranians, then why is he unconcerned about the thousands who will die from the brutal, illegal sanctions, which are themselves an act of war, that he has imposed?

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  22. nsa says:
    @anon

    “Pat worships the jews”
    Exactly. Scratch any christian and you come up with a warmed over jew.

  23. @anon

    Power is when we have every justification to kill, and we don’t.

    Nifty idea. How would one describe this situation?

    Power is when we have every justification to kill, and we can’t.

    and how do you tell them apart, absent telepathy?

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @anon
  24. @Ludwig Watzal

    Trump should kick Bolton, Pompeo, and Pence in the pants

    Interesting metaphor. Why do you think Bolton, Pompeo, and Pence wear metaphorical athletic cups at work?

    Counterinsurgency

  25. Here was Pat Buchanan back in early 2003 – on the Israel lobby and Gulf War II – absolutely spot on and absolutely applicable 16 years on:

    Whose War?
    By PATRICK J. BUCHANAN, March 24, 2003, The American Conservative

    [MORE]

    The War Party may have gotten its war. But it has also gotten something it did not bargain for. Its membership lists and associations have been exposed and its motives challenged. In a rare moment in U.S. journalism, Tim Russert put this question directly to Richard Perle: “Can you assure American viewers … that we’re in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?”

    Suddenly, the Israeli connection is on the table, and the War Party is not amused. Finding themselves in an unanticipated firefight, our neoconservative friends are doing what comes naturally, seeking student deferments from political combat by claiming the status of a persecuted minority group. People who claim to be writing the foreign policy of the world superpower, one would think, would be a little more manly in the schoolyard of politics. Not so…

    …What Kaplan, Brooks, Boot, and Kagan are doing is what the Rev. Jesse Jackson does when caught with some mammoth contribution from a Fortune 500 company he has lately accused of discriminating. He plays the race card. So, too, the neoconservatives are trying to fend off critics by assassinating their character and impugning their motives.

    Indeed, it is the charge of “anti-Semitism” itself that is toxic. For this venerable slander is designed to nullify public discourse by smearing and intimidating foes and censoring and blacklisting them and any who would publish them. Neocons say we attack them because they are Jewish. We do not. We attack them because their warmongering threatens our country, even as it finds a reliable echo in Ariel Sharon.

    And this time the boys have cried “wolf” once too often. It is not working…

    …We charge that a cabal of polemicists and public officials seek to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interests. We charge them with colluding with Israel to ignite those wars and destroy the Oslo Accords. We charge them with deliberately damaging U.S. relations with every state in the Arab world that defies Israel or supports the Palestinian people’s right to a homeland of their own. We charge that they have alienated friends and allies all over the Islamic and Western world through their arrogance, hubris, and bellicosity…

    …They charge us with anti-Semitism—i.e., a hatred of Jews for their faith, heritage, or ancestry. False. The truth is, those hurling these charges harbor a “passionate attachment” to a nation not our own that causes them to subordinate the interests of their own country and to act on an assumption that, somehow, what’s good for Israel is good for America…

    • Replies: @nsa
  26. You bet that was a great column in 2003 by Buchanan – he really went after the Israel-First crowd and utterly harpooned them.

    How refreshing!

    Still, he conclusion – a warning to W – should also concern herr trumpf:

    Though we have said repeatedly that we admire much of what this president has done, he will not deserve re-election if he does not jettison the neoconservatives’ agenda of endless wars on the Islamic world that serve only the interests of a country other than the one he was elected to preserve and protect.

  27. nsa says:
    @herewegoagain

    “a hatred of jews for their….blah blah blah’
    So exactly what is wrong with hating the jew? It’s called self-preservation and is the first law of nature.

  28. @anonymous

    What President Reagan didn’t need to rescue our medical students in Grenada from the Marxist thugs?

    There was and is no evidence that “our medical students” were in any need of being rescued. The internal affairs of other countries, irrespective of political orientation, are none of the US’s f*#king business.

  29. NSA, what’s wrong with Americans simply hating American policies that harm them, but benefit a foreign country?

  30. gsjackson says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    What a throwaway sentence — recommending that Israel’s stenographer give Trump instructions on war with Iran. Does Buchanan not remember referring to Congress as “Israeli-occupied territory?”

  31. gsjackson says:
    @Rurik

    Amen. That phony laugh is like a death knell. An absolute monster.

    An encouraging note from the heartland of Merka: My nephew’s fiancee is an average, apolitical, 30-year old white woman in flyover country. But when HRC is mentioned she engages fully — “pure evil” was her apt description of the war hag, who I believe lost the white woman vote in 2016.

    • Agree: Rurik
  32. gsjackson says:
    @Rurik

    Gravel’s estimation of Obama at the end of that 2008 primary process is also worth recalling — “arrogant and cynical.” Did that guy tell it like it is or what?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  33. @Curmudgeon

    It was a message to Yuri Andropov that, yes, indeed, Ronnie was plum loco.

  34. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:

    [Visualizing 150 Iranian dead from a missile strike that he had ordered, President Donald Trump recoiled and canceled the strike, a brave decision and defining moment for his presidency.]

    ONLY DUMB, CRIMINAL, AND GULLIBLE PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE THESE LIES.

    Your dark history shows that you are a criminal group where should be bombed and destroyed.

    Stop covering for a Jewish mafia pimp who has been sent to WH by $$$$ from WHORE HOUSES you call Casino! He is a pimp living with a former illiterate Escort, where people call a whore. He knows shit about military hardware and the cost of war who is surrendered by Jewish mafia and Israeli firsters, like himself and his family, who does not care about American criminals and work for the expansion of Israel. All are fifth column where should be executed. This family is a Jewish mafia member and a traitor. He like Netanyahu is an ASSASSIN and baby killer.

    All fifth column and assassins are executed in many countries including in the United Snakes to bring peace on earth.

    He is NOT a president. According to many credible women he is a rapist who has lived among many whores and pimps. Send him to his natural home, a whore house.

    [Legendary advice columnist E. Jean Carroll accused Donald Trump of raping her in the dressing room of a New York City department store some 23 years ago, joining more than a dozen women who have previously come forward with allegations of Trump’s sexual misconduct.]

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/e-jean-carrolls-accusation-against-donald-trump-and-the-raising-and-lowering-of-the-bar

    HOW LOW AMERICANS HAVE GONE to praise him for “a brave decision and defining moment for his presidency.”

    He is a con man, a rapist and a pathological liar.

    • Replies: @Christo
  35. @Rurik

    Agree.

    My town is dominated with people who think a vote against Hillary was immoral. Unnatural. Inconceivable.

    Libya?
    What’s that?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  36. HEREDOT says:

    Trump is one of the greatest trolls in history and this is the president of the troll usa. USA’de The world’s largest circus clowns can become president

  37. Rurik says:
    @gsjackson

    Gravel’s estimation of Obama at the end of that 2008 primary process is also worth recalling — “arrogant and cynical.” Did that guy tell it like it is or what?

    bull’s eye

    Here’s to hoping (yes, I know, perhaps naively) that we won’t be saying the same thing about Donny a few months or years from now.

    But I can’t imagine how he could be worse than the war hag. Your friend is right, “pure evil”.

  38. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Libya?
    What’s that?

    Exactly

    Other than some vague brouhaha over something like Benghazi or something, I doubt most Americans have the slightest idea what Libya is like today. And why.

    I hear that cackle in the video, and it sets something apart in me. It really seems like I’m hearing the actual sound of pure, Satanic evil, (if there is such a thing). If not, her cackle (and the place from where it comes) created it.

    • Replies: @nsa
  39. Virgile says:

    Trump does not know if punishing Iran militarily and risking a war will help his re election or will have the opposite effect.
    His hawk staff Pence, Bolton, Pompeo tell him that it will guarantee his re election. Other, such as Tucker Carlson tell him the other way around
    There is no middle ground, either a deadly military escalation on both sides with no end, or the USA will ask for negotiations after rewinding the sequence of sanctions.
    No wonder Trump is confused and keep contradicting himself.

    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
  40. KenH says:

    I’m afraid war is coming one way or another. Mr. Mustache hurriedly flew to Israel, the seat of the American empire, to genuflect before emperor Bibi and reassure him that America will do its bidding and destroy Iran, but it will just take a little more time.

    Either there will be a false flag attack that kills American serviceman which always enrages the merican public or Iran will get sick and tired of being sanctioned, insulted and humiliated that they will launch a limited military strike against U.S. assets in the region.

  41. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Correct — I was poking at Mr. Buchanan’s retelling of the fairy tale in one of his recent columns here.

  42. anon[300] • Disclaimer says:
    @Counterinsurgency

    It seems you’re the absent-minded sort who needs telepathy to know his own motivation for a decision you made.

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency
  43. nsa says:
    @Rurik

    Maybe one American in a hundred could find Libya on a globe, and that one would be a school kid taking a geography class. The ignorance of the new worlders is as astounding as it is hilarious……bringing great joy to us cynical wanderers stranded here. Example: Dan Quayle, former VP, once quipped he was boning up on his Latin for his upcoming trip to Latin America.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  44. SafeNow says:

    I posted this once before, on a different thread, but it comes to mind again. Senator Fred Thompson, in a scene from Red October. 11-second video.

  45. @Curmudgeon

    There was and is no evidence that “our medical students” were in any need of being rescued. The internal affairs of other countries, irrespective of political orientation, are none of the US’s f*#king business.

    The students were a ruse: We didn’t want a hostile airbase at another choke-point to the Panama Canal.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  46. @anon

    It seems you’re the absent-minded sort who needs telepathy to know his own motivation for a decision you made.

    Hey, how did I get into this? I asked a question, can you answer it?

    Counterinsurgency

  47. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Shhh! You’ll upset the Grand Old Paleoconservative.

  48. Christo says:
    @Rurik

    “Six million?”

    Minus the Auschwitz signage error which said 4 million of which 3 were “Jews” on which the whole “Six-million figure was predicated on. You had better start talking about 3 million or at best 4 million or you lose all credibility. 3-4 is perfectly within the bounds of reality. The Einsatzgruppen killed 800K in their anti-partisan actions against Communist and another 2-3 million died from starvation, typus , hardships from being refugees, or in ghettoes or camps and yes , some killed by ‘extermination” methods, starting as far back as the T4 program , since some Jews as some Germans were considered “useless eaters”. Overall given the hell of WWII in Europe and Russia it is no surprise a lot of civilians died . 3 million German civilians died from the same ravages of war the Jews of Europe/Russian died from.

    The adjusted figure of 3 million goes a long way for explaining why encyclopedias with pre-war and post-war figures do not show a 6 million decline in Jewish population in eastern Europe- Russia. The 3 million figure would have been “covered-up” by the replacement rate. What the figures infer is that the Jewish population did not increase in the war years.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Jacques Sheete
  49. Christo says:
    @anonymous

    Dude, to paraphrase Trump, ‘When you are rich , you can grab them by the pussy and they don’t care.” Trump never raped any women , did not have to , money makes their clothes fall off.

    The other stuff about Trump being the whore of the Jewish mafia and the other stuff seems to be true, but he is no rapist or a “pimp”, he is an inherited money real estate developer. The “rapist” accusation is simply TDSbs and jealousy of somebody who is rich and somebody

    • Agree: Rurik
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    , @anonymous
  50. In order to ensure his re-election ,Trump will probably hold off waging war against Iran on behalf of Israel until November of 2020 . However , in the meantime if any US servicemen are killed and Iran can be blamed for their deaths all bets are off . By his appointments of Pompeo , Haspel , Bolton Abrams , et al., Trump has shown that he is certainly not an anti-interventionist.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  51. Low IQ, loser pres
    Knows how to stage rallies and TV shows;
    But teams with loon who says,
    Bomb everyone, ignore their crying throes.
    Pres cucks himself to cons who squeeze the world,
    Like a calf around which a python curled.

  52. Rurik says:
    @Christo

    What the figures infer is that the Jewish population did not increase in the war years.

    well I’m not surprised.

    Every German household had three or four lampshades made from Jewish hides. Often with tattoos (no, not the numbers) on full display. When most German soldiers were captured, their wallets were all made of Jewish skin, and tanned with lard taken from ovens, where Jews were packed in on top of each other. (say what you want about those Germans, they were efficient!)

    And it’s not just the numbers, but there are tones of survivor testimony that Nazi surgeons often did horrific experiments on Jews. Sewing their feet on the end of their arms! And vice versa, just to see what it would look like if a person tried to eat or write using their big toe. Monstrous !

    Did you know they’d shrink Jewish heads for ornaments on their Mercedes hoods, (the demented scoundrels!).

    Who goes around with a shrunken Jewish head on his car?! Nazis, that’s who!

    And please don’t give in to the idea that the Six Million number is negotiable. It’s not.

    I don’t care how many anti-Semites and deniers try to say the Holocaust never happened. And that not one Jew had one hair on his head harmed, the whole duration of the war. Because those two memes are fundamentally indistinguishable. Anyone who questions the Six Million number, is effectively saying that none of it happened, period.

    Please don’t go down that road. Don’t become a genocidal Nazi by default, by claiming it was 5, 874,987 Jews that perished in the Holocaust. Because that is the exact same thing as saying none of it happened.

    Don’t be a Denier, if you know what’s good for you.

  53. @9/11 Inside job

    Given the thugs that you mentioned, who actually WANT war, it’s hard to believe that no servicemen will be killed before the 2020 election. Any false flag will guarantee that. The saddest part for the American people is that Trump, the so-called anti-interventionist, is solely responsible for creating this looming disaster.

    • Agree: SeekerofthePresence
  54. Trump’s daily problem is figuring out a way to avoid being JFK’ed by the deep state while avoiding, yet pretending to support wars being planned by Jewish neocons in control of the US government. So far, he’s done a damned good job.

  55. @Twodees Partain

    Pat, why is it so hard for you to even mention Israel?

    Pat cherishes his occasional 5 minutes of exposure on Morning Joe and other left-wing talk shows where he appears to provide “balance”.

    • Replies: @Hail
  56. The real reason has not yet to come out, but rest assured that the 150 dead Iranian thing is total bullshit.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
  57. @Curmudgeon

    …but cured the lingering Vietnam malaise

  58. Hail says: • Website
    @Carroll Price

    Pat cherishes his occasional 5 minutes of exposure on Morning Joe

    I thought he was banned by MSNBC?

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  59. @Hail

    May have been. I don’t keep up with it.

  60. @follyofwar

    If Trump is so worried about 150 dead Iranians, then why is he unconcerned about the thousands who will die from the brutal, illegal sanctions, which are themselves an act of war, that he has imposed?

    Good point. The whole thing stinks of the “good cop – bad cop” routine. It’s no doubt an attempt to make the Marmalade Moron appear as the reasonable adult in the room. Meanwhile the filthy sanctions, open threats, and who knows what else continue unabated if not escalated.

    Stinking pigs!

  61. @Carroll Price

    Guaranteed. Far more are dying, or certainly will die, from the suffocating sanctions that Trump has placed on Iran. In Iraq, it has been said (and not denied by then SOS Madeline Albright) that 500,000 children died from years of sanctions imposed by Bill Clinton.

  62. @Christo

    3-4 is perfectly within the bounds of reality.

    Well, maybe not perfectly.

    Allowing for a maximum of 100,000 who succeeded in emigrating from Europe, this would bring the total number of Jews under the direct rule of Nazi Germany to about 3,200,000.

    AMERICAN JEWISH YEAR BOOK 1941-2, p 664

    http://www.ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Files/1941_1942_9_Statistics.pdf

    I don’t think many more came under Germany’s control after that nor were they 100% efficient even if they wanted to be.

  63. @Virgile

    Trump does not know if punishing Iran militarily and risking a war will help his re election or will have the opposite effect.

    No doubt true..

  64. @Christo

    Trump never raped any women , did not have to , money makes their clothes fall off.

    Hell, it don’t even take money. Forty years ago, when in my prime, all it took was a dozen red roses to put ball bearings on their bloomers.

  65. @Hail

    It’s somewhat referenced auspiciously; ever-so lightly

  66. Rurik says:
    @nsa

    The ignorance of the new worlders is as astounding as it is hilarious

    ‘Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don’t let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?’

    — Joseph Stalin

    I remember being appalled when I heard that black slaves in the south were forbidden from reading.

    Now I realize that in the same way, mental chains are being forged for the minds of all people under ((their)) domination. Our school children are required to sit though Holocaust indoctrination at every year of k – 12 “education”. They come out knowing their religious catechisms about the holy holocaust, but if matched up against their 19th century ancestors of the eighth grade, would appear to be drooling imbeciles by comparison.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
  67. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @Christo

    [The “rapist” accusation is simply TDSbs and jealousy of somebody who is rich and somebody]

    This ‘jealousy’ business has been created by rapists and thieves themselves in America, that you call ‘elite’. This kind of justification works only on the ignorant and criminal population who are not even aware that they have been fooled and brainwashed to make them ACCOMPLICES that they have happily accepted.

    Trump is a Jewish mafia servant, surrounded by the Jewish mafia criminals where FBI had them under their own umbrella using their criminal activities to use them in FBI dirty works including Spying.

    These kind of mafia and pimps were close buddies of this fifth column family. Trump is not rich because of his ‘brain’, rather through cheating and extortion, from both the government, and milking the Arab ‘leaders’ promising them protection and ‘prosperity’ where everyone knows is piece of shit.
    Now, the criminal Trump jewish family extorting billions of dollars, from the Arab traitor ‘leaders’ , Saudi Arabia, Qatar, more than $50 Billion dollars to expand his apartheid entity with more than $50 billions STOLEN MONEY FROM the ARABS to continue his business and satisfy his masters. The Jewish mafia who is running the country and the economy, is faking ‘statistics’ for ‘good economy’ to keep the dummies on board.

    Any business he has touched, it went DOWN THE TUBE and went bankrupt. The criminal Kushner is purchasing Real Estate with ARAB MONEY not their own money, like the $50B that have promised to buy Palestinians. These ‘rich’ criminals don’t have this kind of money and will obtain it by selling influence. This is TREASON.

    Kushner is in debt, millions of dollar, where he tried to extort some from Qatar, but Qatar was not willing to give the full price they were demanding, and we saw what happened and Qatar came under attack and viewed as ‘terrorist’ state.

    Only dummies believe his lies. These criminals using the ‘office’ to cash in.

  68. gsjackson says:
    @Rurik

    Oops, Mark confused Veterans Day with Memorial Day. My father was keen on the distinction, objecting when I offered congratulations on Memorial Day that he was still kicking and to get back to him on Veterans’ Day.

    Got to be careful when you’re doing these dumb American vids. They are a hoot, and never any shortage of material. I think there was one where he gave the date — 1776 — in the question, and then asked (confoundingly) when it happened.

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