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If a U.S. president calls an adversary “Rocket Man … on a mission to suicide,” and warns his nation may be “totally destroyed,” other ideas in his speech will tend to get lost.

Which is unfortunate. For buried in Donald Trump’s address is a clarion call to reject transnationalism and to re-embrace a world of sovereign nation-states that cherish their independence and unique identities.

Western man has engaged in this great quarrel since Woodrow Wilson declared America would fight in the Great War, not for any selfish interests, but “to make the world safe for democracy.”

Our imperialist allies, Britain, France, Russia, Japan, regarded this as self-righteous claptrap and proceeded to rip apart Germany, Austria, Hungary and the Ottoman Empire and to feast on their colonies.

After World War II, Jean Monnet, father of the EU, wanted Europe’s nations to yield up their sovereignty and form a federal union like the USA.

Europe’s nations would slowly sink and dissolve in a single polity that would mark a giant leap forward toward world government — Alfred, Lord Tennyson’s “Parliament of man, the Federation of the world.”

Charles De Gaulle lead the resistance, calling for “a Europe of nation-states from the Atlantic to the Urals.”

For 50 years, the Gaullists were in constant retreat. The Germans especially, given their past, seemed desirous of losing their national identity and disappearing inside the new Europe.

Today, the Gaullist vision is ascendant.

“We do not expect diverse countries to share the same cultures, traditions, or even systems of government,” said Trump at the U.N.

“Strong sovereign nations let diverse countries with different values, different cultures, and different dreams not just coexist, but work side by side on the basis of mutual respect. …

“In America, we do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to watch.”

Translation: We Americans have created something unique in history. But we do not assert that we should serve as a model for mankind. Among the 190 nations, others have evolved in different ways from diverse cultures, histories, traditions. We may reject their values but we have no God-given right to impose ours upon them.

It is difficult to reconcile Trump’s belief in self-determination with a National Endowment for Democracy whose reason for being is to interfere in the politics of other nations to make them more like us.

Trump’s idea of patriotism has deep roots in America’s past.

After the uprisings of 1848 against the royal houses of Europe failed, Lajos Kossuth came to seek support for the cause of Hungarian democracy. He was wildly welcomed and hailed by Secretary of State Daniel Webster.

But Henry Clay, more true to the principles of Washington’s Farewell Address, admonished Kossuth:

ORDER IT NOW

“Far better is it for ourselves, for Hungary, and for the cause of liberty that, adhering to our wise, pacific system, and avoiding the distant wars of Europe, we should keep our lamp burning brightly on the western shore as a light to all nations, than to hazard its utter extinction amid the ruins of fallen or falling republics in Europe.”

Trump’s U.N. address echoed Clay: “In foreign affairs, we are renewing this founding principle of sovereignty. Our government’s first duty is to its people … to serve their needs, to ensure their safety, to preserve their rights, and to defend their values.”

Trump is saying with John Quincy Adams that our mission is not to go “abroad in search of monsters to destroy,” but to “put America first.” He is repudiating the New World Order of Bush I, the democracy crusades of the neocons of the Bush II era, and the globaloney of Obama.

Trump’s rhetoric implies intent; and action is evident from Rex Tillerson’s directive to his department to rewrite its mission statement — and drop the bit about making the world democratic.

The current statement reads: “The Department’s mission is to shape and sustain a peaceful, prosperous, just, and democratic world.”

Tillerson should stand his ground. For America has no divinely mandated mission to democratize mankind. And the hubristic idea that we do has been a cause of all the wars and disasters that have lately befallen the republic.

If we do not cure ourselves of this interventionist addiction, it will end our republic. When did we dethrone our God and divinize democracy?

And are 21st-century American values really universal values?

Should all nations embrace same-sex marriage, abortion on demand, and the separation of church and state if that means, as it has come to mean here, the paganization of public education and the public square?

If freedom of speech and the press here have produced a popular culture that is an open sewer and a politics of vilification and venom, why would we seek to impose this upon other peoples?

For the State Department to declare America’s mission to be to make all nations look more like us might well be regarded as a uniquely American form of moral imperialism.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of a new book, “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2017 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Donald Trump 
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  1. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    So Donald Trump is now Charles de Gualle?

    At least Mr. Buchanan’s latest column has no Establishment horsefeathers about Russian “hacking” of our precious democracy. However, doesn’t he yet realize that there’s usually something for everyone in any formal address by President Trump?

    The author can pluckily show how passages (apparently written by Stephen Miller?) are consistent with America’s founding principles, and perhaps an essay like this will reach and enlighten others. But the President doesn’t understand or hold those principles, as will once again become evident in his own words thumbed into a so called smart phone and the actions of an imperial Establishment for which he is, at best, nothing more than an embarrassing annoyance.

    And Ms. Haley is at the UN every day.

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    • Agree: utu, reiner Tor
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  2. KenH says:

    “In America, we do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to watch.”

    Perhaps not, but we have been trying to impose (((American))) style democracy and where/when that’s not possible, puppet dictators. We claim to respect national sovereignty but overthrew Saddam Hussein, helped overthrow Qadaffi, staged a color revolution in Ukraine, seem to be undermining Maduro of Venezuela, are looking for ways to break the nuclear agreement and reimpose sanctions on Iran and until recently, attempting to overthrow and depose the duly elected leader of Syria which may still be in the works.

    I guess the Jew(s) who wrote Trump’s speech is hoping the world has amnesia. If Trump truly means what he says then he will start closing our military bases and bringing our troops home. His lofty words need to be matched by deeds.

    If we ever want to overthrow any leader we just claim they are killing and torturing their own people or possess unauthorized WMD. But if you are killing and torturing your people and Israel likes you or doesn’t feel threatened by you then we’ll stand down.

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  3. Rurik says:

    And are 21st-century American values really universal values?

    Should all nations embrace same-sex marriage, abortion on demand, and the separation of church and state if that means, as it has come to mean here, the paganization of public education and the public square?

    the moral rot and spiritual sewage pumped out of ((Hollywood)) and ((Madison Ave.)) are hardly pagan.

    Paganism is a spiritual celebration of a people’s blood and ancient Gods of lust, fertility and heroism. The SJW of ((American)) culture today are the exact opposite of paganism, as they wallow in blood-profaning ‘diversity’ and spiritual septic tanks of homomania.

    If freedom of speech and the press here have produced a popular culture that is an open sewer and a politics of vilification and venom, why would we seek to impose this upon other peoples?

    it isn’t freedom of speech or a free press that has produced the evils you speak of Pat, but rather the consolidation of our press and media by the enemies of free speech. Duh.

    For the State Department to declare America’s mission to be to make all nations look more like us might well be regarded as a uniquely American form of moral imperialism.

    hardly moral imperialism, rather amoral imperialism.

    promoting, indeed demanding moral rot and spiritual gangrene are ((America’s)) exports today, along with debt and bombs.

    If Trump can somehow turn this situation around, and rein in the ((purveyors)) of hatred and mass-murder, he’ll be a modern day Charles [The Hammer] Martell. The Lion of the West, and savior of Christendom and Europa.

    An (unlikely) Second Coming of sorts, where Satan’s nefarious rule is pushed back, and humanity and Western civilization are once again free from the evils of Moloch’s minion$.

    Just imagine Putin in the East, and Trump in the West, and a healthy and ascendant Europe in between, free from mass migrations and serial wars of ((imposed)) hatred and theft and misery. Oy veh!

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @ANon

    abortion on demand
     
    Pagan.

    same-sex marriage
     
    Pagan. Mostly less the "marriage", except Nero.

    separation of church and state
     
    Not really pagan. In some cases like Mithra and to a lesser extent Isis.

    the paganization of public education
     
    I refer to Chesterton here: https://www.chesterton.org/the-song-of-the-strange-ascetic/
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  4. If a U.S. president calls an adversary “Rocket Man … on a mission to suicide,” and warns his nation may be “totally destroyed,”

    …then it is quite irrelevant what else he says, because what’s obvious is that he’s continuing his game of nuclear chicken with the North Korean regime, which is because he has a problem with the fact that a country on the other side of a huge ocean is developing nuclear weapons. Not very Gaullist, I think.

    He was also threatening Iran, all the while lengthily admonishing Iran’s leaders for their form of government, for leading a “dictatorship”, for having allegedly mismanaged their country. This is not a Gaullist position at all, for example, quite the opposite.

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  5. utu says:

    At this stage trying to spin Trump utterances like that he might be a Gaullist is a complete nonsense. His only redeeming value is that his enemies are who they are. Still as last several months indicate Trump always ends up doing exactly what these “enemies” want.

    http://patriotrising.com/2017/09/22/trump-hardly-knew-ye-bad-camelot-brief-shining-moment/
    “Trump has unfortunately proven to be exactly what his detractors claimed he was; immature, egotistical, unprincipled, vain, elitist. This certainly doesn’t make most of his critics any less offensive than they are. Indeed, that is the lone redeeming value of Trump’s administration; he continues to have all the right enemies. The threats of violence, even assassination, from every pillar of the establishment almost make one want to continue to defend him. Almost.”

    Read More
    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha

    His only redeeming value is that his enemies are who they are.
     
    Long live President Not-Hillary!!!

    Peace.
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  6. Baloney.

    The US Multi-National Chamber of Commerce makes most of its money by arbitrage between high price retailing to consumers in the USA and low cost manufacturing in China, et.al.. And the C of C is nakedly buying the best Congressional GOP/RNC and DNC available…and they’re ALL available.

    This is called channel-stuffing. Stuff more people into the USA, get more arbitrage.

    Then there’s nakedly laundering payments to US corporations via “foreign aid.” In every case, the “aid” is either money to buy American weapons or such, or Uncle buys it himself and sends it. Either way, the US Treasury borrows and spends….and US corporations collect.

    In this regard, Uncle Sam is just like the typical college student or medical patient, a means by which the supplier creates a conduit to the fruits of borrowed money.

    Every bit of this grew up the last 36 years (well, it got way worse, anyway, from poisonous seeds earlier) and it won’t end until interest rates rise and choke off borrowing.

    This will happen when the Mass Mind finally awakens from a three and a half decade stupor and realizes just what happened. Instead of empty platitudes about unpayable debts and uncollectable pensions and future cash flows, the Mass Mind will SEE it clearly for the first time.

    Oh, the RAGE will be epic. I need to buy myself a cavern or old missile silo in which to sit out the actions that will be animated by it.

    I hope the economists and popular pundits who kept telling us debt was “no problem” are at the head of the line when scapegoating gets REAL.

    Read More
    • Replies: @27 year old
    >I need to buy myself a cavern or old missile silo in which to sit out the actions that will be animated by it.

    Yours for only $850k:

    https://www.survivalrealty.com/united-states/north-dakota/fsbo/rare-sprint-missile-site-for-sale-12000-sqft-underground/
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  7. @dc.sunsets
    Baloney.

    The US Multi-National Chamber of Commerce makes most of its money by arbitrage between high price retailing to consumers in the USA and low cost manufacturing in China, et.al.. And the C of C is nakedly buying the best Congressional GOP/RNC and DNC available...and they're ALL available.

    This is called channel-stuffing. Stuff more people into the USA, get more arbitrage.

    Then there's nakedly laundering payments to US corporations via "foreign aid." In every case, the "aid" is either money to buy American weapons or such, or Uncle buys it himself and sends it. Either way, the US Treasury borrows and spends....and US corporations collect.

    In this regard, Uncle Sam is just like the typical college student or medical patient, a means by which the supplier creates a conduit to the fruits of borrowed money.

    Every bit of this grew up the last 36 years (well, it got way worse, anyway, from poisonous seeds earlier) and it won't end until interest rates rise and choke off borrowing.

    This will happen when the Mass Mind finally awakens from a three and a half decade stupor and realizes just what happened. Instead of empty platitudes about unpayable debts and uncollectable pensions and future cash flows, the Mass Mind will SEE it clearly for the first time.

    Oh, the RAGE will be epic. I need to buy myself a cavern or old missile silo in which to sit out the actions that will be animated by it.

    I hope the economists and popular pundits who kept telling us debt was "no problem" are at the head of the line when scapegoating gets REAL.

    >I need to buy myself a cavern or old missile silo in which to sit out the actions that will be animated by it.

    Yours for only $850k:

    https://www.survivalrealty.com/united-states/north-dakota/fsbo/rare-sprint-missile-site-for-sale-12000-sqft-underground/

    Read More
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  8. Talha says:
    @utu
    At this stage trying to spin Trump utterances like that he might be a Gaullist is a complete nonsense. His only redeeming value is that his enemies are who they are. Still as last several months indicate Trump always ends up doing exactly what these "enemies" want.

    http://patriotrising.com/2017/09/22/trump-hardly-knew-ye-bad-camelot-brief-shining-moment/
    "Trump has unfortunately proven to be exactly what his detractors claimed he was; immature, egotistical, unprincipled, vain, elitist. This certainly doesn’t make most of his critics any less offensive than they are. Indeed, that is the lone redeeming value of Trump’s administration; he continues to have all the right enemies. The threats of violence, even assassination, from every pillar of the establishment almost make one want to continue to defend him. Almost."
     

    His only redeeming value is that his enemies are who they are.

    Long live President Not-Hillary!!!

    Peace.

    Read More
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  9. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Western man has engaged in this great quarrel since Woodrow Wilson declared America would fight in the Great War, not for any selfish interests, but “to make the world safe for democracy.”

    To Wilson’s credit, the logic of his argument was nationalist against imperialism. In principle(if not in practice), he was calling for self-determination and national sovereignty for all peoples of the world.

    Wilson was NOT calling for wars to spread democracy. He was saying nations should self-determine their own destinies and HOPEFULLY, democracy is the path they take.

    In this sense. Bush and Neocons were not Wilsonian but closer to Teddy Rooseveltism that was for empire and a World Club of Imperial Nations.

    That said, Trump is a two-headed snake. Gaulle was a truly legendary leader. Trump is a showman who has now cucked out to globalist. His rhetoric means nothing.

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  10. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    For 50 years, the Gaullists were in constant retreat. The Germans especially, given their past, seemed desirous of losing their national identity and disappearing inside the new Europe.

    This makes no sense. The German Guilt in WWII was imperialism, not nationalism. They waged war on nationalism all over Europe. They forced Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, and etc to forgo their identity and dissolve into German empire as helots.

    Anti-Nazi struggle in WWII meant recovery of one’s nation’s sovereignty and independence(though this was thwarted once again by Soviet domination of Eastern Europe).

    Germans sure learned the wrong lesson. They no longer send armies to other nations, but their message is the same to Poles, Hungarians, Greeks, and others.. SURRENDER YOUR INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY AND BE RUN OVER BY FOREIGN INVADERS, this time Muslims and Africans who are even worse than Germans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    The Germans especially, given their past, seemed desirous of losing their national identity and disappearing inside the new Europe.
     
    What is called Germany today is NOT recognizably German. The remnants of Germany were "Americanized" by cadres within US occupying forces who, according to Cora Sol Goldstein in "Capturing the German Eye," ignored the policy prescriptions of the US Congress and of US military leaders in favor of enforcing, by psychological warfare and while in command of a monopoly on violence, largely Jewish preferences and cultural values while eradicating as completely as possible German identity, culture, legacy and values. Germany today represents the second- or third-generation outcome of what was perhaps the most thorough and insidious exercise in mass brainwashing-by-terror in modern history.
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  11. polskijoe says:

    They no longer send armies to other nations, but their message is the same to Poles, Hungarians, Greeks, and others.. SURRENDER YOUR INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY AND BE RUN OVER BY FOREIGN INVADERS,

    agreed. now its more political and economic.

    but to be fair, we dont know how much power Germany elites really have. how much of their talk is really their views, vs how much is influenced from US/France/etc. do they want eu seperate, do they want atlanticist eu-us connection?

    i wonder how the demographic problems will play in the future. assuming projections are right, slavic lands (especially between Germany and Russia) will have less people due to fertility rates. will that be lebensraum for the new mixed society of germany?

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  12. polskijoe says:

    trump is not a gaullist, at all.

    charles de guale wanted europe. he left nato, he criticized US influence.

    the cia (through dulles) tried to remove him (I recall reading this somewhere, cant confirm).

    the modern sarkozy and those are fakes pretending to be guallist.

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  13. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Hey, if you don’t like it “you’re fired!” And you can’t play football either! To think I once was a Trump supporter :( Hillary or not, this guy is dangerous.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    And you can’t play football either!
     
    hey Scalpel

    finally I don't agree with you on something!

    Like Trump and others, I also can't stand to see those privileged and pampered multi-million dollar athletes preening their solidarity with Michael Brown, the thug who caught a bullet when he couldn't further throttle a smaller man.

    their argument is that white cops and others are shooting black men for being black, and there's zero proof that that's happening. Travon was proven to be a violent thug and Zimmerman justified in defending his own life.

    not that there isn't obvious evidence of cops callously murdering black (and white) men and getting away with it, (Freddy Gray for instance) but the racial component is a tiresome media fed dishonest hysteria, and million dollar football players are the last people on this planet that should be whining about America's privileged caste, as plenty of poor white men feel the brunt of thuggish cops every day in this country.

    just my two cents..

    cheers
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  14. ANon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rurik

    And are 21st-century American values really universal values?

    Should all nations embrace same-sex marriage, abortion on demand, and the separation of church and state if that means, as it has come to mean here, the paganization of public education and the public square?
     

    the moral rot and spiritual sewage pumped out of ((Hollywood)) and ((Madison Ave.)) are hardly pagan.

    Paganism is a spiritual celebration of a people's blood and ancient Gods of lust, fertility and heroism. The SJW of ((American)) culture today are the exact opposite of paganism, as they wallow in blood-profaning 'diversity' and spiritual septic tanks of homomania.


    If freedom of speech and the press here have produced a popular culture that is an open sewer and a politics of vilification and venom, why would we seek to impose this upon other peoples?
     
    it isn't freedom of speech or a free press that has produced the evils you speak of Pat, but rather the consolidation of our press and media by the enemies of free speech. Duh.

    For the State Department to declare America’s mission to be to make all nations look more like us might well be regarded as a uniquely American form of moral imperialism.
     
    hardly moral imperialism, rather amoral imperialism.

    promoting, indeed demanding moral rot and spiritual gangrene are ((America's)) exports today, along with debt and bombs.

    If Trump can somehow turn this situation around, and rein in the ((purveyors)) of hatred and mass-murder, he'll be a modern day Charles [The Hammer] Martell. The Lion of the West, and savior of Christendom and Europa.

    An (unlikely) Second Coming of sorts, where Satan's nefarious rule is pushed back, and humanity and Western civilization are once again free from the evils of Moloch's minion$.

    Just imagine Putin in the East, and Trump in the West, and a healthy and ascendant Europe in between, free from mass migrations and serial wars of ((imposed)) hatred and theft and misery. Oy veh!

    abortion on demand

    Pagan.

    same-sex marriage

    Pagan. Mostly less the “marriage”, except Nero.

    separation of church and state

    Not really pagan. In some cases like Mithra and to a lesser extent Isis.

    the paganization of public education

    I refer to Chesterton here: https://www.chesterton.org/the-song-of-the-strange-ascetic/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik



    abortion on demand
     
    Pagan.

     

    how so?

    Paganism died hundreds of years ago, and I doubt there were too many abortion clinics in the realm. Not that defectives weren't probably put down in moments of charity and compassion, but I suspect that healthy babies were the ultimate celebration of the God's favor.

    abortion on demand is a progressive, liberal invention, and there's nothing less pagan than the worshipers of diversity and homomania.

    From what I understand, (I'm not a scholar by any means) is that Pagans loved life and each other, and yes, the flesh, and reveled in it, and lived for the now and for life's harrows and triumphs, rather than repudiating this life for the next.

    Perhaps they were wrong, and are today smoldering in the eternal flames of the "loving" true god's wrath, but I don't think so. I suspect they loved their babies as few people in history ever have.

    same-sex marriage

    Pagan. Mostly less the “marriage”, except Nero.
     
    where do you get this crap?

    I don't know of one place of paganism that suffered the sodomites

    places like Burning Man are no doubt rampant orgies of homomania, but it's similarities to ancient pagans ends with the fire. Pagans loved their people, and worshiped motherhood as sacred, and tried their very best to make as many mothers and babies as their lusty hearts and loins could accord!

    nothing whatsoever to do with the repulsive degradation of today's homomania

    at least as far as my limited knowledge of such things go

    are there known scholarly works that point out paganisms promotion of abortion or sodomy?
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  15. If freedom of speech and the press here have produced a popular culture that is an open sewer and a politics of vilification and venom, why would we seek to impose this upon other peoples?

    Don’t blame freedom of speech and the press for the popular culture that’s an open [moral] sewer; blame the self anointed money bag “elite” who control the press and much of everything else whose “culture” has always been a sewer, albeit somewhat discreetly closed.

    They say a fish rots from the head down, and evidently the rule has, and still does, apply to human social systems as well.

    The “why would we seek to impose this upon other peoples?” question is spot on, however.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    for the popular culture that’s an open [moral] sewer; blame the self anointed money bag “elite” who control the press and much of everything else whose “culture” has always been a sewer,
     
    Hey Jacques,

    I thought you said we shouldn't criticize Jews as such?

    ;)

    (always enjoy your thoughtful and provocative comments here sir!)
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  16. Ken 1 says:

    I’m afraid Pat Buchanan, who I admire, just can’t face the fact that he bought into Donald Trump’s lies. Trump was never an America Firster. He’s always been a Trump Firster. Mr. Buchanan please stop trying to save face and just admit that you’ve been had.

    Read More
    • Agree: utu
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  17. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Can Resident Dump spout empty rhetoric and chew gum at the same time? Defending Nation States at the UN is like calling for temperance leagues at an Irish Bar or promoting celibacy at a chicken ranch in Nevada methinks. After hitting the Syrians for making his grown daughter cry and threatening a tinpot dictator in Asia that is far less threatening than the invaders who came to kill him and rape his women, Resident Dump has taken up the low baton of every cheap con man ever in making the most hollow and empty promises still seem dumber simply by doing the exact opposite and then just pretending not to notice. Like all amateurs in the game of politicking, Resident Dump makes that rookie mistake of covering all the bases and ending up not pleasing anyone.
    Politics is a game not for reality stars and camera hogs. Power is not a game show with cash and prizes you shell out. It may seem that way, but only because leadership is the Unicorn that “conservatives” believe in but ultimately never seem to find…

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  18. @Anon
    For 50 years, the Gaullists were in constant retreat. The Germans especially, given their past, seemed desirous of losing their national identity and disappearing inside the new Europe.

    This makes no sense. The German Guilt in WWII was imperialism, not nationalism. They waged war on nationalism all over Europe. They forced Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, and etc to forgo their identity and dissolve into German empire as helots.

    Anti-Nazi struggle in WWII meant recovery of one's nation's sovereignty and independence(though this was thwarted once again by Soviet domination of Eastern Europe).

    Germans sure learned the wrong lesson. They no longer send armies to other nations, but their message is the same to Poles, Hungarians, Greeks, and others.. SURRENDER YOUR INDEPENDENCE AND SOVEREIGNTY AND BE RUN OVER BY FOREIGN INVADERS, this time Muslims and Africans who are even worse than Germans.

    The Germans especially, given their past, seemed desirous of losing their national identity and disappearing inside the new Europe.

    What is called Germany today is NOT recognizably German. The remnants of Germany were “Americanized” by cadres within US occupying forces who, according to Cora Sol Goldstein in “Capturing the German Eye,” ignored the policy prescriptions of the US Congress and of US military leaders in favor of enforcing, by psychological warfare and while in command of a monopoly on violence, largely Jewish preferences and cultural values while eradicating as completely as possible German identity, culture, legacy and values. Germany today represents the second- or third-generation outcome of what was perhaps the most thorough and insidious exercise in mass brainwashing-by-terror in modern history.

    Read More
    • Agree: Kevin C.
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  19. Rurik says:
    @The Scalpel
    Hey, if you don't like it "you're fired!" And you can't play football either! To think I once was a Trump supporter :( Hillary or not, this guy is dangerous.

    And you can’t play football either!

    hey Scalpel

    finally I don’t agree with you on something!

    Like Trump and others, I also can’t stand to see those privileged and pampered multi-million dollar athletes preening their solidarity with Michael Brown, the thug who caught a bullet when he couldn’t further throttle a smaller man.

    their argument is that white cops and others are shooting black men for being black, and there’s zero proof that that’s happening. Travon was proven to be a violent thug and Zimmerman justified in defending his own life.

    not that there isn’t obvious evidence of cops callously murdering black (and white) men and getting away with it, (Freddy Gray for instance) but the racial component is a tiresome media fed dishonest hysteria, and million dollar football players are the last people on this planet that should be whining about America’s privileged caste, as plenty of poor white men feel the brunt of thuggish cops every day in this country.

    just my two cents..

    cheers

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    Rurik,

    Sorry, but I don't disagree with you on any of that. If Trump said what you said, then I would not have a problem with him either. But Trump did not say that. Trump simply said something to the effect of, "you have no right to protest any government policy at an NFL game." I believe there is a difference between saying I disagree with someone, and saying that someone has no right to voice their opinion even though I may disagree with it. Anyway, that's my take on it and I don't think that you would disagree with my take on it even if that is not your take on it.

    Trump also made the national anthem and the flag into some sort of religious symbols. It happens all the time and it turns my stomach. The party that it does it claims that they speak for the God of the flag, national anthem, or all Americans in general. That frame of mind is one that I find particularly offensive. It is a sort of holier than thou attitude and is usually associated with ignorance and the threats of violence against any dissenting opinion.

    By taking this course of action, I see Trump as either ignorant or appealing to ignorance. He is either intolerant or appealing to those who are intolerant. I do not want to live in a society ruled by ignorance and intolerance. I would call that a totalitarian society.

    Until now I have considered Trump to be better than Hillary Clinton because Hillary Clinton was known to be very evil. Now I am beginning to think that giving trump the benefit of doubt because he was somewhat of an unknown has opened the possibility that unbeknownst to us, he is just as bad in his own way

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  20. Rurik says:
    @ANon

    abortion on demand
     
    Pagan.

    same-sex marriage
     
    Pagan. Mostly less the "marriage", except Nero.

    separation of church and state
     
    Not really pagan. In some cases like Mithra and to a lesser extent Isis.

    the paganization of public education
     
    I refer to Chesterton here: https://www.chesterton.org/the-song-of-the-strange-ascetic/

    abortion on demand

    Pagan.

    how so?

    Paganism died hundreds of years ago, and I doubt there were too many abortion clinics in the realm. Not that defectives weren’t probably put down in moments of charity and compassion, but I suspect that healthy babies were the ultimate celebration of the God’s favor.

    abortion on demand is a progressive, liberal invention, and there’s nothing less pagan than the worshipers of diversity and homomania.

    From what I understand, (I’m not a scholar by any means) is that Pagans loved life and each other, and yes, the flesh, and reveled in it, and lived for the now and for life’s harrows and triumphs, rather than repudiating this life for the next.

    Perhaps they were wrong, and are today smoldering in the eternal flames of the “loving” true god’s wrath, but I don’t think so. I suspect they loved their babies as few people in history ever have.

    same-sex marriage

    Pagan. Mostly less the “marriage”, except Nero.

    where do you get this crap?

    I don’t know of one place of paganism that suffered the sodomites

    places like Burning Man are no doubt rampant orgies of homomania, but it’s similarities to ancient pagans ends with the fire. Pagans loved their people, and worshiped motherhood as sacred, and tried their very best to make as many mothers and babies as their lusty hearts and loins could accord!

    nothing whatsoever to do with the repulsive degradation of today’s homomania

    at least as far as my limited knowledge of such things go

    are there known scholarly works that point out paganisms promotion of abortion or sodomy?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon

    Paganism died hundreds of years ago, and I doubt there were too many abortion clinics in the realm. Not that defectives weren’t probably put down in moments of charity and compassion, but I suspect that healthy babies were the ultimate celebration of the God’s favor.
     
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=contraception+and+abortion+in+antiquity&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ4oSHkMnWAhWKiRoKHaNYDmAQgQMIJDAA

    Or perhaps you prefer death by exposure*?

    I don’t know of one place of paganism that suffered the sodomites
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome

    at least as far as my limited knowledge of such things go
     
    It would be less limited if you would use Google. I know you oppose their monopolism, but there are not only similar competitors but some things called "libraries" which stored bizarre objects called "books" and which provided a primitive equivalent in the Dark Ages before the Internet.

    I think these objects would be worth examining; doing so requires a lost art known as "reading".

    *Look this one up, I'm not providing references.
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  21. Rurik says:
    @jacques sheete

    If freedom of speech and the press here have produced a popular culture that is an open sewer and a politics of vilification and venom, why would we seek to impose this upon other peoples?
     
    Don't blame freedom of speech and the press for the popular culture that's an open [moral] sewer; blame the self anointed money bag "elite" who control the press and much of everything else whose "culture" has always been a sewer, albeit somewhat discreetly closed.

    They say a fish rots from the head down, and evidently the rule has, and still does, apply to human social systems as well.

    The "why would we seek to impose this upon other peoples?" question is spot on, however.

    for the popular culture that’s an open [moral] sewer; blame the self anointed money bag “elite” who control the press and much of everything else whose “culture” has always been a sewer,

    Hey Jacques,

    I thought you said we shouldn’t criticize Jews as such?

    ;)

    (always enjoy your thoughtful and provocative comments here sir!)

    Read More
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  22. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Rurik

    And you can’t play football either!
     
    hey Scalpel

    finally I don't agree with you on something!

    Like Trump and others, I also can't stand to see those privileged and pampered multi-million dollar athletes preening their solidarity with Michael Brown, the thug who caught a bullet when he couldn't further throttle a smaller man.

    their argument is that white cops and others are shooting black men for being black, and there's zero proof that that's happening. Travon was proven to be a violent thug and Zimmerman justified in defending his own life.

    not that there isn't obvious evidence of cops callously murdering black (and white) men and getting away with it, (Freddy Gray for instance) but the racial component is a tiresome media fed dishonest hysteria, and million dollar football players are the last people on this planet that should be whining about America's privileged caste, as plenty of poor white men feel the brunt of thuggish cops every day in this country.

    just my two cents..

    cheers

    Rurik,

    Sorry, but I don’t disagree with you on any of that. If Trump said what you said, then I would not have a problem with him either. But Trump did not say that. Trump simply said something to the effect of, “you have no right to protest any government policy at an NFL game.” I believe there is a difference between saying I disagree with someone, and saying that someone has no right to voice their opinion even though I may disagree with it. Anyway, that’s my take on it and I don’t think that you would disagree with my take on it even if that is not your take on it.

    Trump also made the national anthem and the flag into some sort of religious symbols. It happens all the time and it turns my stomach. The party that it does it claims that they speak for the God of the flag, national anthem, or all Americans in general. That frame of mind is one that I find particularly offensive. It is a sort of holier than thou attitude and is usually associated with ignorance and the threats of violence against any dissenting opinion.

    By taking this course of action, I see Trump as either ignorant or appealing to ignorance. He is either intolerant or appealing to those who are intolerant. I do not want to live in a society ruled by ignorance and intolerance. I would call that a totalitarian society.

    Until now I have considered Trump to be better than Hillary Clinton because Hillary Clinton was known to be very evil. Now I am beginning to think that giving trump the benefit of doubt because he was somewhat of an unknown has opened the possibility that unbeknownst to us, he is just as bad in his own way

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hey Scalpel,

    “you have no right to protest any government policy at an NFL game.”
     
    I actually Bing'd that quote just to make sure he didn't actually say that. (he didn't ; )

    but I get what you're saying about honoring the flag, and any calls to demand others honor it. When I had jury duty recently, we were all told to stand and recite the pledge of allegiance, and I sat and refused. I agree that expecting people to honor a symbol of nationalism, (or any 'ism' or religion) is anathema to the principles of freedom of thought and expression, and I suppose we agree on that principle.

    my problem is with the multimillion dollar football players acting sanctimoniously in solidarity with the (often innocent) people shot by the police- because their agenda is racist, not principled. Their mantra is that 'black lives matter', as if the cops only shoot black men, and that's a vile lie and a devise to divide the country and undermine what should be a light-hearted diversion for Americans- into a race-based creed of hatred and division.

    that black men are over-represented in the criminal justice system is hardly only a consequence of the occasional racist white cop, but is rather a consequence of the alarming violence and criminality of young black men. That is what these guys should be talking about (OFF THE FIELD!) if they want to effect some positive changes in the urban black communities, not trying to demonize all (often poor and put upon) white communities as endemically racist. I'm really tired of that particular line of identity politics, and feel like these pampered athletes (often violent criminals themselves) should feel grateful for every blessing American society has bestowed upon them. Not jumping into the divisive racist hate-fest of the leftist, progressive, hate-whitey circus.

    Play the game, collect your millions, and then go into black communities and spend some of that money (and eve more precious: time) trying to act as a role model for young black men, often who have no idea who their fathers are, and are getting very bad signals from the media about who's to blame for all their (very real) hardships.

    Cheers Scalpel, (and make no mistake, I too have my criticisms for Trump, but there's just no way he's as bad as Hillary would have been. At least so far ; )
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  23. Rurik says:
    @The Scalpel
    Rurik,

    Sorry, but I don't disagree with you on any of that. If Trump said what you said, then I would not have a problem with him either. But Trump did not say that. Trump simply said something to the effect of, "you have no right to protest any government policy at an NFL game." I believe there is a difference between saying I disagree with someone, and saying that someone has no right to voice their opinion even though I may disagree with it. Anyway, that's my take on it and I don't think that you would disagree with my take on it even if that is not your take on it.

    Trump also made the national anthem and the flag into some sort of religious symbols. It happens all the time and it turns my stomach. The party that it does it claims that they speak for the God of the flag, national anthem, or all Americans in general. That frame of mind is one that I find particularly offensive. It is a sort of holier than thou attitude and is usually associated with ignorance and the threats of violence against any dissenting opinion.

    By taking this course of action, I see Trump as either ignorant or appealing to ignorance. He is either intolerant or appealing to those who are intolerant. I do not want to live in a society ruled by ignorance and intolerance. I would call that a totalitarian society.

    Until now I have considered Trump to be better than Hillary Clinton because Hillary Clinton was known to be very evil. Now I am beginning to think that giving trump the benefit of doubt because he was somewhat of an unknown has opened the possibility that unbeknownst to us, he is just as bad in his own way

    Hey Scalpel,

    “you have no right to protest any government policy at an NFL game.”

    I actually Bing’d that quote just to make sure he didn’t actually say that. (he didn’t ; )

    but I get what you’re saying about honoring the flag, and any calls to demand others honor it. When I had jury duty recently, we were all told to stand and recite the pledge of allegiance, and I sat and refused. I agree that expecting people to honor a symbol of nationalism, (or any ‘ism’ or religion) is anathema to the principles of freedom of thought and expression, and I suppose we agree on that principle.

    my problem is with the multimillion dollar football players acting sanctimoniously in solidarity with the (often innocent) people shot by the police- because their agenda is racist, not principled. Their mantra is that ‘black lives matter’, as if the cops only shoot black men, and that’s a vile lie and a devise to divide the country and undermine what should be a light-hearted diversion for Americans- into a race-based creed of hatred and division.

    that black men are over-represented in the criminal justice system is hardly only a consequence of the occasional racist white cop, but is rather a consequence of the alarming violence and criminality of young black men. That is what these guys should be talking about (OFF THE FIELD!) if they want to effect some positive changes in the urban black communities, not trying to demonize all (often poor and put upon) white communities as endemically racist. I’m really tired of that particular line of identity politics, and feel like these pampered athletes (often violent criminals themselves) should feel grateful for every blessing American society has bestowed upon them. Not jumping into the divisive racist hate-fest of the leftist, progressive, hate-whitey circus.

    Play the game, collect your millions, and then go into black communities and spend some of that money (and eve more precious: time) trying to act as a role model for young black men, often who have no idea who their fathers are, and are getting very bad signals from the media about who’s to blame for all their (very real) hardships.

    Cheers Scalpel, (and make no mistake, I too have my criticisms for Trump, but there’s just no way he’s as bad as Hillary would have been. At least so far ; )

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Scalpel
    Minor point. I did mean to say that the quote you mentioned was not an <> quote, thus the preface "something to the effect of".

    Trump's statements never address the issues you address. It is simpy(simpelton-ly) don' t disrespect the flag, the country, etc. Again, ignorant and authoritarian i.e. Totalitarian. Intentionally so, to appeal to that impulse in many residents of the US. Dangerous

    Again I have no dispute with your views on the reasons the players are taking a knee.
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  24. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Rurik
    Hey Scalpel,

    “you have no right to protest any government policy at an NFL game.”
     
    I actually Bing'd that quote just to make sure he didn't actually say that. (he didn't ; )

    but I get what you're saying about honoring the flag, and any calls to demand others honor it. When I had jury duty recently, we were all told to stand and recite the pledge of allegiance, and I sat and refused. I agree that expecting people to honor a symbol of nationalism, (or any 'ism' or religion) is anathema to the principles of freedom of thought and expression, and I suppose we agree on that principle.

    my problem is with the multimillion dollar football players acting sanctimoniously in solidarity with the (often innocent) people shot by the police- because their agenda is racist, not principled. Their mantra is that 'black lives matter', as if the cops only shoot black men, and that's a vile lie and a devise to divide the country and undermine what should be a light-hearted diversion for Americans- into a race-based creed of hatred and division.

    that black men are over-represented in the criminal justice system is hardly only a consequence of the occasional racist white cop, but is rather a consequence of the alarming violence and criminality of young black men. That is what these guys should be talking about (OFF THE FIELD!) if they want to effect some positive changes in the urban black communities, not trying to demonize all (often poor and put upon) white communities as endemically racist. I'm really tired of that particular line of identity politics, and feel like these pampered athletes (often violent criminals themselves) should feel grateful for every blessing American society has bestowed upon them. Not jumping into the divisive racist hate-fest of the leftist, progressive, hate-whitey circus.

    Play the game, collect your millions, and then go into black communities and spend some of that money (and eve more precious: time) trying to act as a role model for young black men, often who have no idea who their fathers are, and are getting very bad signals from the media about who's to blame for all their (very real) hardships.

    Cheers Scalpel, (and make no mistake, I too have my criticisms for Trump, but there's just no way he's as bad as Hillary would have been. At least so far ; )

    Minor point. I did mean to say that the quote you mentioned was not an <> quote, thus the preface “something to the effect of”.

    Trump’s statements never address the issues you address. It is simpy(simpelton-ly) don’ t disrespect the flag, the country, etc. Again, ignorant and authoritarian i.e. Totalitarian. Intentionally so, to appeal to that impulse in many residents of the US. Dangerous

    Again I have no dispute with your views on the reasons the players are taking a knee.

    Read More
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  25. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rurik



    abortion on demand
     
    Pagan.

     

    how so?

    Paganism died hundreds of years ago, and I doubt there were too many abortion clinics in the realm. Not that defectives weren't probably put down in moments of charity and compassion, but I suspect that healthy babies were the ultimate celebration of the God's favor.

    abortion on demand is a progressive, liberal invention, and there's nothing less pagan than the worshipers of diversity and homomania.

    From what I understand, (I'm not a scholar by any means) is that Pagans loved life and each other, and yes, the flesh, and reveled in it, and lived for the now and for life's harrows and triumphs, rather than repudiating this life for the next.

    Perhaps they were wrong, and are today smoldering in the eternal flames of the "loving" true god's wrath, but I don't think so. I suspect they loved their babies as few people in history ever have.

    same-sex marriage

    Pagan. Mostly less the “marriage”, except Nero.
     
    where do you get this crap?

    I don't know of one place of paganism that suffered the sodomites

    places like Burning Man are no doubt rampant orgies of homomania, but it's similarities to ancient pagans ends with the fire. Pagans loved their people, and worshiped motherhood as sacred, and tried their very best to make as many mothers and babies as their lusty hearts and loins could accord!

    nothing whatsoever to do with the repulsive degradation of today's homomania

    at least as far as my limited knowledge of such things go

    are there known scholarly works that point out paganisms promotion of abortion or sodomy?

    Paganism died hundreds of years ago, and I doubt there were too many abortion clinics in the realm. Not that defectives weren’t probably put down in moments of charity and compassion, but I suspect that healthy babies were the ultimate celebration of the God’s favor.

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=contraception+and+abortion+in+antiquity&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ4oSHkMnWAhWKiRoKHaNYDmAQgQMIJDAA

    Or perhaps you prefer death by exposure*?

    I don’t know of one place of paganism that suffered the sodomites

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome

    at least as far as my limited knowledge of such things go

    It would be less limited if you would use Google. I know you oppose their monopolism, but there are not only similar competitors but some things called “libraries” which stored bizarre objects called “books” and which provided a primitive equivalent in the Dark Ages before the Internet.

    I think these objects would be worth examining; doing so requires a lost art known as “reading”.

    *Look this one up, I’m not providing references.

    Read More
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