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Is That Russia Troll Farm an Act of War?
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According to the indictment by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, Russian trolls, operating out of St. Petersburg, took American identities on social media and became players in our 2016 election.

On divisive racial and religious issues, the trolls took both sides. In the presidential election, the trolls favored Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein and Donald Trump, and almost never Hillary Clinton.

One imaginative Russian troll urged Trumpsters to dress up a female volunteer in an orange prison jump suit, put her in a cage on a flatbed truck, then append the slogan, “Lock Her Up!”

How grave a matter is this?

This Russian troll farm is “the equivalent (of) Pearl Harbor,” says Cong. Jerrold Nadler, who would head up the House Judiciary Committee, handling any impeachment, if Democrats retake the House.

When MSNBC’s Chris Hayes pressed, Nadler doubled down: The Russians “are destroying our democratic process.” While the Russian trolling may not equal Pearl Harbor in its violence, said Nadler, in its “seriousness, it is very much on a par” with Japan’s surprise attack.

Trump’s reaction to the hysteria that broke out after the Russian indictments: “They are laughing their (expletives) off in Moscow.”

According to Sunday’s Washington Post, the troll story is old news in Russia, where reporters uncovered it last year and it was no big deal.

While Mueller’s indictments confirm that Russians meddled in the U.S. election, what explains the shock and the fear for “our democracy”?

Is the Great Republic about to fall because a bunch of trolls tweeted in our election? Is this generation ignorant of its own history?

Before and after World War II, we had Stalinists and Soviet spies at the highest levels of American culture and government.

The Hollywood Ten, who went to prison for contempt of Congress, were secret members of a Communist Party that, directed from Moscow, controlled the Progressive Party in Philadelphia in 1948 that nominated former Vice President Henry Wallace to run against Harry Truman.

Soviet spies infiltrated the U.S. atom bomb project and shortened the time Stalin needed to explode a Soviet bomb in 1949.

As for Russian trolling in our election, do we really have clean hands when it comes to meddling in elections and the internal politics of regimes we dislike?

Sen. John McCain and Victoria Nuland of State egged on the Maidan Square crowds in Kiev that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine. When the democratically elected regime of Mohammed Morsi was overthrown, the U.S. readily accepted the coup as a victory for our side and continued aid to Egypt as tens of thousands of Muslim Brotherhood members were imprisoned.

Are the CIA and National Endowment for Democracy under orders not to try to influence the outcome of elections in nations in whose ruling regimes we believe we have a stake?

“Have we ever tried to meddle in other countries’ elections?” Laura Ingraham asked former CIA Director James Woolsey this weekend.

With a grin, Woolsey replied, “Oh, probably.”

“We don’t do that anymore though?” Ingraham interrupted. “We don’t mess around in other people’s elections, Jim?”

“Well,” Woolsey said with a smile. “Only for a very good cause.”

Indeed, what is the National Endowment for Democracy all about, if not aiding the pro-American side in foreign nations and their elections?

Did America have no active role in the “color-coded revolutions” that have changed regimes from Serbia to Ukraine to Georgia?

ORDER IT NOW

When Republicans discuss Iran on Capitol Hill, the phrase “regime change” is frequently heard. When the “Green Revolution” took to the streets of Tehran to protest massively the re-election of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2009, Republicans denounced President Obama for not intervening more energetically to alter the outcome.

When China, Russia and Egypt expel NGOs, are their suspicions that some have been seeded with U.S. agents merely marks of paranoia?

The U.S. role in the overthrow of Premier Mossadegh in Iran in 1953, and of Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954, and of President Ngo Dinh Diem in Saigon in 1963 are established facts.

When the democratically elected Marxist Salvador Allende was overthrown in Chile in 1973, and committed suicide with an AK-47 given to him by Fidel Castro, the Nixon White House may have had no direct role. But the White House welcomed the ascendancy of Gen. Augusto Pinochet.

What do these indictments of Russians tell us? After 18 months, the James Comey-Robert Mueller FBI investigation into the hacking of the DNC and John Podesta emails has yet to produce evidence of collusion.

Yet we do have evidence that a senior British spy and Trump hater, Christopher Steele, paid by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC to dig up dirt on Trump, colluded with Kremlin agents to produce a dossier of scurrilous and unsubstantiated charges, to destroy the candidacy of Donald Trump. And the FBI used this disinformation to get FISA Court warrants to surveil and wiretap the Trump campaign.

Why is this conspiracy and collusion with Russians less worthy of Mueller’s attention than a troll farm in St. Petersburg?

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of a new book, “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2018 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: 2016 Election, Donald Trump, Russia 
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  1. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    A couple questions.

    “When the democratically elected Marxist Salvador Allende was overthrown in Chile in 1973, and committed suicide with an AK-47 given to him by Fidel Castro, the Nixon White House may have had no direct role.”
    Why so coy, Mr. Buchanan? Or can’t you recall?

    “Yet we do have evidence that a senior British spy and Trump hater, Christopher Steele, paid by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC to dig up dirt on Trump, colluded with Kremlin agents to produce a dossier of scurrilous and unsubstantiated charges, to destroy the candidacy of Donald Trump.”
    What is that evidence — other than Mr. Steele’s assertions in the dossier itself — as to the involvement of “Kremlin agents”?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Addendum, lifted from comment (#3) of Ronald Thomas West:

    “What do these indictments of Russians tell us? After 18 months, the James Comey-Robert Mueller FBI investigation into the hacking of the DNC and John Podesta emails has yet to produce evidence of collusion." Are you still unaware of the forensic evidence and credible analysis of people like Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity that the DNC emails were leaked, not hacked?

    Columnists like Pat Buchanan and Andrew Napolitano may help people find this website, but week in and week out they show themselves as sloppy, at best. There may be something to be said for putting them up here, where they can be compared to Dinh, Giraldi, Hopkins, Sailer, Whitney, et al.

    I read their columns closely when it comes to Russia, and comment when I see them serving the Establishment line. It has become apparent that "Judge" is purposeful in his Eastasia bulls**t. I am reaching the same conclusion about Mr. Buchanan.

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  2. Randal says:

    This “hysteria” as Buchanan accurately describes it is very characteristically American, in its sheer hypocritical dishonesty.

    The US has made a regular practice for a century or more of pushing and attacking others, via political interference, subversion, diplomacy or outright military aggression, until they respond, and then screaming hysterically about “unprovoked aggression” against America.

    It’s who they are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Gruskos
    Jerrold Nadler is not an American.

    His hysterics have nothing whatsoever to do with the national character of Americans.
    , @Anon
    But this hysteria is essentially Jewish or, more accurately, Jewish supremacist.

    For most of US history, Americans favored non-intervention. The exceptions were when yellow press stirred up hysteria, as with the events leading up to Spanish-American War.
    , @ussr andy
    >very characteristically American

    it's the manichaeism (which is historically recent.) (no offence to actual Manichaeans, if such exist/fans of old Persia etc)
    https://aeon.co/essays/why-is-pop-culture-obsessed-with-battles-between-good-and-evil

    tl;dr: morals are attached not to the person, but to his group
    in order to be a good person, you have to be member of the right group (libs, presumably)
    AND you don't actually have to be a good person, just being a right-thinking person justifies anything

    , @Ximenes
    "This “hysteria” as Buchanan accurately describes it is very characteristically American, in its sheer hypocritical dishonesty."

    More accurately, it is characteristically Soviet, or Communist. It is a rehash of what Russians were bombarded with during the Soviet era. Maybe that's why the Russians are so blase about it today, they recognize it from their own past.
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  3. Of several factual mistakes in your piece, Pat, why do you slip in crap like this…

    “Yet we do have evidence that a senior British spy and Trump hater, Christopher Steele, paid by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC to dig up dirt on Trump, colluded with Kremlin agents to produce a dossier of scurrilous and unsubstantiated charges, to destroy the candidacy of Donald Trump”

    …bs claiming ‘Kremlin agents’ when it would appear the entire hit job on Trump originated with s**t made up on the USA end, and Steele was little more than a cut-out to give the USA’s DoJ (and more likely CIA) cover? Isn’t that more than just a bit like playing the insider game? If you”re going to take a shot at Hillary, why not bring up the actual Russia collusion concerning uranium?

    And pushing the ‘hack’ line…

    “What do these indictments of Russians tell us? After 18 months, the James Comey-Robert Mueller FBI investigation into the hacking of the DNC and John Podesta emails has yet to produce evidence of collusion”

    …giving cover to the ‘Russians did it’ hack bs when it is clear the DNC ‘hack’ was actually an insider leak? You’re no better than yellow rag Marcy Wheeler’s ‘empty wheel’ blog:

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2018/01/31/the-wheel-is-indeed-empty/

    You’re both disgusting, limited-hangout-sellouts.

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    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    You beat me to it. Pat can't restrain himself from repeating the false memes of the MSM in his articles. Of course, it may be as you point out, that he is deliberately pushing the "limited hangout" view to influence those who still take him seriously.

    Referring to Steele's compliation of his fake dossier as having been fed by agents of the Kremlin keeps alive the whole idea that Russian officials were involved in whatever Mueller et al pretend to be investigating.
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  4. yurivku says:

    Why is this conspiracy and collusion with Russians less worthy of Mueller’s attention than a troll farm in St. Petersburg?

    Strange question. Just because the US is indespensable precious nation with a true democracy in action.
    Didn’t you know? Every Russian knows that.

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  5. Destroying the democratic process? A president was shot dead in full view of the nation and it was never properly investigated, the same goes for 9/11. Endless and unconstitutional wars that have bankrupted the nation. I’d say that it was destroyed a long time ago and all that remains is nostalgia. Buckle up my colonial cousins!

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    • Agree: Carroll Price, Rurik
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  6. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Is all this Russia medling in US elections really an anti Israeli plot? By shinning a light so bright on the actions of some Russian troll group are they really trying to set a trap? A trap which would make illegal any interaction by foreign nations and the US election process on any level? One might wonder if the big fish being set up in all this is Israel. Those who speak loudest about the Russian involvement might well plan on bringing such onslaught of charges against individuals US Citizens who engage in activities to help Israel, to show in an undue harsh light lobbying practices which are only desgined to help the strong US/Israeli bonds. In short are these attacks at Russia meddling a first step in attacking those who only want to support and help Israel by defaming them as anti-american – not us.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    No, Israel always gets passover privileges. What applies to other nations doesn't apply to Israel.
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  7. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    A couple questions.

    "When the democratically elected Marxist Salvador Allende was overthrown in Chile in 1973, and committed suicide with an AK-47 given to him by Fidel Castro, the Nixon White House may have had no direct role."
    Why so coy, Mr. Buchanan? Or can't you recall?

    "Yet we do have evidence that a senior British spy and Trump hater, Christopher Steele, paid by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC to dig up dirt on Trump, colluded with Kremlin agents to produce a dossier of scurrilous and unsubstantiated charges, to destroy the candidacy of Donald Trump."
    What is that evidence -- other than Mr. Steele's assertions in the dossier itself -- as to the involvement of "Kremlin agents"?

    Addendum, lifted from comment (#3) of Ronald Thomas West:

    “What do these indictments of Russians tell us? After 18 months, the James Comey-Robert Mueller FBI investigation into the hacking of the DNC and John Podesta emails has yet to produce evidence of collusion.” Are you still unaware of the forensic evidence and credible analysis of people like Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity that the DNC emails were leaked, not hacked?

    Columnists like Pat Buchanan and Andrew Napolitano may help people find this website, but week in and week out they show themselves as sloppy, at best. There may be something to be said for putting them up here, where they can be compared to Dinh, Giraldi, Hopkins, Sailer, Whitney, et al.

    I read their columns closely when it comes to Russia, and comment when I see them serving the Establishment line. It has become apparent that “Judge” is purposeful in his Eastasia bulls**t. I am reaching the same conclusion about Mr. Buchanan.

    Read More
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  8. Jason Liu says:

    Read this NYT article about American interference in other countries’ elections. Makes Russia look like an amateur.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html

    And it’s still going on under the guise of NGOs. So if Russians tweeting stuff is an act of war, then the US is already at war with a bunch of countries.

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  9. Renoman says:

    Come on America, when are you gonna clean up your mess? You’re a laughing stock.

    Read More
    • Agree: yurivku
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  10. People like Rep. Nadler are either oblivious to the “Sauce for the goose” or the “Glass House/Stone-throwing” principles. US fingerprints are all over a host of election meddling across the past century:

    One of the bigger ones was the circumvention of 1948 peninsula-wide elections in Korea by installing Syngman Rhee as president of the the newly formed ROK, leading to the Korean War and a loss of 60k american lives and another million or so other UN forces, not to mention millions of Koreans.

    Then there is the Vietnam election of 1956, which the US circumvented by helping “found” the RVN; cost of avoiding that election was another 60k American lives.

    And of course the two dozen other noteworthy electoral adventures Uncle has engaged in since WW2 alone.

    So we’re supposed to be ready to go to war over $1m of Russian “meddling?” Haven’t we lost enough American lives due to our own meddling in others’ elections?

    People like Nadler are in full TDS and probably should have a full psych-workup done before being allowed to take their seats in the Capitol.

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  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Let’s always recollect that the “National Endowment for Democracy” was a creation of the sainted Reagan.

    Read More
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  12. @Randal
    This "hysteria" as Buchanan accurately describes it is very characteristically American, in its sheer hypocritical dishonesty.

    The US has made a regular practice for a century or more of pushing and attacking others, via political interference, subversion, diplomacy or outright military aggression, until they respond, and then screaming hysterically about "unprovoked aggression" against America.

    It's who they are.

    Jerrold Nadler is not an American.

    His hysterics have nothing whatsoever to do with the national character of Americans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    Jerrold Lewis Nadler is an American attorney and politician who serves as the U.S. Representative from New York's 10th congressional district. He is a member of the Democratic Party. Although Wikipedia studiously avoids revealing his ethnic background, it's a sure bet he's a Ziojew. If that is indeed the case, your statement regarding him not being an American is accurate.
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  13. Before and after World War II, we had Stalinists and Soviet spies at the highest levels of American culture and government.

    During WW2, too.

    They were running some of the biggest banks and corporations, too. It was fashionable for the trust fund kiddies and some of the money bags “upper crust” to play commie as well. Still is, apparently.

    Famous names, Vanderbilt, Lamont, Whitney, Morgan, mingled with those of communist leaders. The Russian Institute was so respectable that it was allowed to give in-service courses to New York City schoolteachers for credit.

    -Bella Dodd, School of Darkness, Chap 11

    Read More
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  14. @Ronald Thomas West
    Of several factual mistakes in your piece, Pat, why do you slip in crap like this...

    "Yet we do have evidence that a senior British spy and Trump hater, Christopher Steele, paid by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC to dig up dirt on Trump, colluded with Kremlin agents to produce a dossier of scurrilous and unsubstantiated charges, to destroy the candidacy of Donald Trump"

    ...bs claiming 'Kremlin agents' when it would appear the entire hit job on Trump originated with s**t made up on the USA end, and Steele was little more than a cut-out to give the USA's DoJ (and more likely CIA) cover? Isn't that more than just a bit like playing the insider game? If you''re going to take a shot at Hillary, why not bring up the actual Russia collusion concerning uranium?

    And pushing the 'hack' line...

    "What do these indictments of Russians tell us? After 18 months, the James Comey-Robert Mueller FBI investigation into the hacking of the DNC and John Podesta emails has yet to produce evidence of collusion"

    ...giving cover to the 'Russians did it' hack bs when it is clear the DNC 'hack' was actually an insider leak? You're no better than yellow rag Marcy Wheeler's 'empty wheel' blog:

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2018/01/31/the-wheel-is-indeed-empty/

    You're both disgusting, limited-hangout-sellouts.

    You beat me to it. Pat can’t restrain himself from repeating the false memes of the MSM in his articles. Of course, it may be as you point out, that he is deliberately pushing the “limited hangout” view to influence those who still take him seriously.

    Referring to Steele’s compliation of his fake dossier as having been fed by agents of the Kremlin keeps alive the whole idea that Russian officials were involved in whatever Mueller et al pretend to be investigating.

    Read More
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  15. When MSNBC’s Chris Hayes pressed, Nadler doubled down: The Russians “are destroying our democratic process.” While the Russian trolling may not equal Pearl Harbor in its violence, said Nadler, in its “seriousness, it is very much on a par” with Japan’s surprise attack.

    “One cannot observe democracy objectively without being impressed by its curious distrust of itself—it’s apparent ineradicable tendency to abandon its philosophy at the first sign of strain. I need not point to what invariably happens in democratic states when the national safety is menaced. All the great tribunes of democracy, on such occasions, convert themselves into instant despots of an almost fabulous ferocity.” H.L. Mencken

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  16. @John Gruskos
    Jerrold Nadler is not an American.

    His hysterics have nothing whatsoever to do with the national character of Americans.

    Jerrold Lewis Nadler is an American attorney and politician who serves as the U.S. Representative from New York’s 10th congressional district. He is a member of the Democratic Party. Although Wikipedia studiously avoids revealing his ethnic background, it’s a sure bet he’s a Ziojew. If that is indeed the case, your statement regarding him not being an American is accurate.

    Read More
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  17. Rurik says:

    it’s a sure bet he’s a Ziojew. If that is indeed the case, your statement regarding him not being an American is accurate.

    he is

    See also[edit]
    List of Jewish members of the United States Congress

    check out his mug

    could be Abe Foxman’s fraternal twin

    And yes, these guys are quintessentially anti-American, insofar as the America of the founders still persists in hamlets across this nation. Repudiating the evils of Eternal Wars for Israel and demanding (locked and loaded ; ) the sanctity of our increasingly subverted Constitutional rights. Carrying on and bolstering the traditions we inherited vis-a-vis the Magna Carta, and principles of human freedom that America once represented, and still does wherever Americans thumb their noses at the treasonous zio-scum that today profanes our sacred covenants and perverts our way of life.

    If only the people of our cultural provenance; Europa, had enough of that brazen grit, that once (and still does in the heart’s of Les Deplorables) defined America, and found it in them to repudiate their zio-quislings and cultural Marxists across the pond – that dominate their lands as utterly as a pedophile raping a British boy, or as Muslims rape their school girls.

    Brexit was an encouraging sign, but alas, it seems that too often- Europe is even more slavish in its servile fealty to all things Zion, than even the ZUSA, if that’s even possible.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/15/uk-blames-russia-notpetya-cyber-attack-ukraine

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  18. Mr. Buchanan is correct, of course, that we interfere in other countries. But defending foreign hostility to America by pointing to America’s own misdeeds is a traditional leftist line. As a patriotic American, Buchanan shouldn’t be making that argument (nor does he need to, when the issue is a ridiculously tiny trolling operation).

    There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side. We’re not obligated to submit to invasion, just because we took this country from the Indians. We’re not obligated to tolerate nuclear weapons in Kim Il Sung’s hands, just because we have nuclear weapons of our own.

    None of this is to say that we should use our power recklessly or with unnecessary ruthlessness. But putting our own interests first inevitably requires some deviation from a strict application of the Golden Rule.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Mr. Buchanan is correct, of course, that we interfere in other countries. But defending foreign hostility to America by pointing to America’s own misdeeds is a traditional leftist line.
     
    It's not a "leftist line" (at least in this case), it's one that's basic to human nature - don't dish it out if you can't take it in turn, and don't whine like a hypocritical two year old when you do get some back. Nothing "left wing" about that.

    There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side.
     
    No, not if you don't mind being a hypocrite.

    But hypocrisy is a very American thing - throughout your history you've been manipulated into wars by the very weakness you adhere to here. "We can do it but if anyone does it back to us that's unacceptable, because we're special" has been pretty much the way the US has been kept interfering around the world for decades.

    The answer is to stop doing it yourself, then complain about other people doing it. But that isn't going to happen, is it? Your lords and masters are going to keep poking their noses into other countries' affairs all over the world, and people like you are going to complain like bitches if you get any back, and those complaints will justify further aggression in response to supposedly unacceptable foreign "unprovoked" aggression/interference against your country.

    And I write that while being pretty much the very opposite of anything that could be described as "left wing", just as a foreigner weighing US behaviour.
    , @Rurik

    There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side.
     
    you're having fun aren't you

    it's always amusing when a Zionist Jew uses the expression 'our own country', and then speaks of the America of apple pie and baseball as if that is the country that people (rightfully) want to see crushed under a thousand tons of comeuppance for its serial and heinous crimes.

    no Jew, it isn't the America of Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best, that people are reeling from. It isn't the America of 1970's Rock and Roll, or Motown or even Disco!, that people everywhere would like to see locked up at Gitmo and water boarded.

    No International Jew. Rather it's what America has become- ever since our government was fully corrupted into the service Israel, to the point of destroying other nations, torturing goat herders, 'bug-splatting' children, droning weddings, and mass-murdering, maiming and displacing millions upon millions of innocent men, women and children, all in a vain act of Satanic evil to sate an insatiable lust for murder and vengeance that emanates out of the bowels of your people's endemic pathologies.

    Indeed, the very same insatiable lust for death and suffering and wholesale slaughter that dragged the US into two disastrous wars on behalf of Perfidious Albion. That festering den of snakes and pedophiles and treason, where Rothschild himself makes his home, and where International Jewish banksters have schemed for centuries to enslave the world to debt and tyranny. And of course, where "British" International Jews speak of as if it too is their country, as they scheme to spill British (and American) blood wherever possible.

    So I know you're really amusing yourself by referring to that America of pre-Eternal Wars for Israel (and torture camps and droned weddings), as if it had any semblance whatsoever to the black and rotten soul of your OT maggot god of hatred and death- which has been the America of post 9/11 Israeli treachery and crime.

    Your "America" and mine are two mutually incompatible Americas, International Jew, as you well know.

    Yours is the America of standing ovations for a mass-murderer and genocidal war criminal.

    yours is the America of the Mossad working closely with the CIA to perpetrate 9/11

    your is the "America" of Total surveillance and police state thuggery and shipping automatic weapons to Mexican drug cartels, because you want to disarm my America, huh International Jew?

    Because my America is the one that one day just might hold yours responsible for the myriad and monstrous crimes it has committed and continues to commit in our name. And no Jew, when I say our, I do not mean America and Israel, but the America that might one day figure out what Israel did on 9/11, and then hold her to account.

    On that day, International Jew, you'll find that using the word "our" to describe America, just won't resonate like it has these past few decades.

    One that day, you'll probably want to slither back to London, where you can feel safe and at home in your country. ;)
    , @Twodees Partain
    "There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side."

    True, so long as we don't confuse the country with the government. The country is the land, the people and a common culture. The government is a collection of criminals who want very much for the people to think of the government as the country.
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  19. All this fuss about some Russian larking about, mostly after the election result was known.
    Yet when it comes to an aggressive rival building fortified islands in the South China sea, and physically asserting itself ? (…..crickets).
    It is to laugh.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    China would be foolish NOT to fortify those islands, especially given the Western interference over an extended period in the region which is, after all, in China's backyard. China seeks trade not war and those islands are vital to securing their most important shipping routes.
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  20. This is an excellent article summarizing the major issues presented. Though I have views which vary somewhat about the postwar witchhunt in the US which sort of sets the beginning precedent for this one the fact situation described is correct. As for whether it is an act of war, I say that it is, but not by the Russians. It is an act of war by out of control extra-legal yankee authorities against any individual, foreign or domestic, who would choose to resist them in any fashion, including those just trying to make money like the Russians in this case from farming US internet subscribers.

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  21. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    It’s more pearl-clutching than Pearl Harbor.

    This Pearl Harbor narrative was put out by Jews. Max Boot and Jonathan Alter are going nuts with it.

    Jews got brains but no balance. And goyim are a bunch of cucks and dogs.

    If this silly trolling was Pearl Harbor, then the real US role in meddling in Russia in the 90s was Operation Barbarossa.

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  22. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Well, one good thing is that the Progs are now the deep state, the military-industrial complex, warmongers, surveillance state, and the imperialists.

    We get to play the role of dissidents that is nobler.

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  23. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Randal
    This "hysteria" as Buchanan accurately describes it is very characteristically American, in its sheer hypocritical dishonesty.

    The US has made a regular practice for a century or more of pushing and attacking others, via political interference, subversion, diplomacy or outright military aggression, until they respond, and then screaming hysterically about "unprovoked aggression" against America.

    It's who they are.

    But this hysteria is essentially Jewish or, more accurately, Jewish supremacist.

    For most of US history, Americans favored non-intervention. The exceptions were when yellow press stirred up hysteria, as with the events leading up to Spanish-American War.

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  24. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    Is all this Russia medling in US elections really an anti Israeli plot? By shinning a light so bright on the actions of some Russian troll group are they really trying to set a trap? A trap which would make illegal any interaction by foreign nations and the US election process on any level? One might wonder if the big fish being set up in all this is Israel. Those who speak loudest about the Russian involvement might well plan on bringing such onslaught of charges against individuals US Citizens who engage in activities to help Israel, to show in an undue harsh light lobbying practices which are only desgined to help the strong US/Israeli bonds. In short are these attacks at Russia meddling a first step in attacking those who only want to support and help Israel by defaming them as anti-american - not us.

    No, Israel always gets passover privileges. What applies to other nations doesn’t apply to Israel.

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  25. Russiagate is a starched and stuffed empty suit. Buchanan is right to demean its significance. And yes, there is the shameful fact of rank US hypocrisy in all this. No doubt. But the relatively modest impact of Russian ‘meddling’ in the last US election, coupled with the moral emptiness within the entire Russiagate investigation, is what’s most revealing.

    Indeed, not only does the US routinely interfere (and even overthrow) other sovereign states, but Russian machinations in America pales besides other extranational interference, particularly Israel’s.

    When it comes to pushing around Washington and shaping US public opinion, Israel is in a class by itself. You haven’t noticed?

    Not only do crypto-Israelis own or supervise most American mass media (including hard news) but hundreds of young, paid Jewish/Israeli trolls regularly clog US social media sites, American internet news comments sections, and Wikipedia entries.

    Israelis (and their US-based cousins) are the masters of political chicanery. No one else comes close.

    Then there’s the overbearing influence of AIPAC, the ADL, and dozens of other crypto-Israeli pressure groups. These highfalutin lobbies have managed to buy their way into the halls of Congress, the White House, and onto national TV. It’s a continuous phenomena. But we’re not supposed to notice or be concerned. After all, they’re our best friends!

    By comparison, Russian access and interference in American life is infantesimal.

    Does this shock you? It shouldn’t. It’s been this way in America for decades.

    Incredibly, it’s publicly examining, discussing, and criticizing this odd situation that becomes ‘shocking’ (and career-ending). That’s the scary part.

    Crypto-Israelis have dominated, and continue to dominate, a vast swath of American culture; especially news and entertainment.

    Henry Ford, Charles Lindburgh, and Marlon Brando all complained about this unique and dangerous situation. And conditions have not improved since they did. If anything, Zionist power in America has only hardened.

    This makes far-away Russia even more of a bit player in our corrupt political circus. And this is why Russiagate is such a farce.

    In Hollywood, on Wall Street, as well as in Washington, the top dog (and most sacred cause) involves Israel. Every US politician recognizes this unpublicized fact. Just read their speeches. See how they vote. And those public servants who don’t recognize Israel’s unique status in Washington tend to fade rapidly into oblivion. This is Jewish power.

    Zio-Americans helped steer Washington into its preemptive and criminal annihilation of Libya and Iraq and, if they have their way again, there will be additional American wars fought on behalf of the Jewish state.

    Due in large part to Zionist dictates, Assad’s Syria is being targeted by Washington right now. Iran is next. All foes of Israel end up in Washington’s crosshairs.

    America has been quietly captured and domesticated by Zionists.

    Sadly, even referring to the overriding impact of Zionist power in America is taboo. Buchanan and others have learned this lesson the hard way. But this explosive fact ultimately renders the entire Russiagate ‘scandal’ little more than a contrived distraction.

    Call it Jewish political theater if you like. But it’s mostly a charade.

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  26. Randal says:
    @International Jew
    Mr. Buchanan is correct, of course, that we interfere in other countries. But defending foreign hostility to America by pointing to America's own misdeeds is a traditional leftist line. As a patriotic American, Buchanan shouldn't be making that argument (nor does he need to, when the issue is a ridiculously tiny trolling operation).

    There's nothing wrong with us taking our own country's side. We're not obligated to submit to invasion, just because we took this country from the Indians. We're not obligated to tolerate nuclear weapons in Kim Il Sung's hands, just because we have nuclear weapons of our own.

    None of this is to say that we should use our power recklessly or with unnecessary ruthlessness. But putting our own interests first inevitably requires some deviation from a strict application of the Golden Rule.

    Mr. Buchanan is correct, of course, that we interfere in other countries. But defending foreign hostility to America by pointing to America’s own misdeeds is a traditional leftist line.

    It’s not a “leftist line” (at least in this case), it’s one that’s basic to human nature – don’t dish it out if you can’t take it in turn, and don’t whine like a hypocritical two year old when you do get some back. Nothing “left wing” about that.

    There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side.

    No, not if you don’t mind being a hypocrite.

    But hypocrisy is a very American thing – throughout your history you’ve been manipulated into wars by the very weakness you adhere to here. “We can do it but if anyone does it back to us that’s unacceptable, because we’re special” has been pretty much the way the US has been kept interfering around the world for decades.

    The answer is to stop doing it yourself, then complain about other people doing it. But that isn’t going to happen, is it? Your lords and masters are going to keep poking their noses into other countries’ affairs all over the world, and people like you are going to complain like bitches if you get any back, and those complaints will justify further aggression in response to supposedly unacceptable foreign “unprovoked” aggression/interference against your country.

    And I write that while being pretty much the very opposite of anything that could be described as “left wing”, just as a foreigner weighing US behaviour.

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    • Replies: @yurivku

    The answer is to stop doing it yourself, then complain about other people doing it.
     
    Great! Agree.
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  27. @Hans Tholstrup
    All this fuss about some Russian larking about, mostly after the election result was known.
    Yet when it comes to an aggressive rival building fortified islands in the South China sea, and physically asserting itself ? (.....crickets).
    It is to laugh.

    China would be foolish NOT to fortify those islands, especially given the Western interference over an extended period in the region which is, after all, in China’s backyard. China seeks trade not war and those islands are vital to securing their most important shipping routes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hey Duke,

    in China’s backyard
     
    what about the Philippines?

    From what I understand, the disputed islands are much closer to the Philippines than to China.

    If proximity = claim, then doesn't the Philippines have a legitimate case?
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  28. SteveK9 says:

    ‘Yet we do have evidence that a senior British spy and Trump hater, Christopher Steele, paid by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC to dig up dirt on Trump, colluded with Kremlin agents to produce a dossier of scurrilous and unsubstantiated charges, to destroy the candidacy of Donald Trump. And the FBI used this disinformation to get FISA Court warrants to surveil and wiretap the Trump campaign.’

    Correct except for ‘Kremlin agents’ … Steele hadn’t been to Russia in more than 20 years. The ‘dossier’ is full of ridiculous mistakes … about Russia. It’s just as likely he made the whole thing up, or was fed stuff by the CIA, not the Kremlin.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    Yes, this is the same point made above by other commenters, including R T West and me.

    Does anyone here, at this point, honestly dispute that Mr. Buchanan and Mr. “Judge” Napolitano are not jesters at the imperial court, condoned by the Establishment as long as they’re willing to carry its Russophobic water? I had this revelation months ago - an intramural “red pill” about “our side” - and have since been addressing it and fruitlessly inviting rebuttal in my comments.
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  29. gp says:

    I don’t care about USA hypocrisy, I care about the stupidity of thinking that elections are somehow tainted for no other reason than that spurious points of view were expressed by somebody somewhere.

    Act of war? Dangerous balderdash! Most of the information available to voters is always a mish-mash of lies, myth and spin. It’s the voters’ responsibility, as in all areas of life, to assess incoming info with skepticism and individual research. You can not hold an election if you insist on invalidating it afterwards whenever a lie is discovered in the petabytes of hype that support it.

    Looking at the lefty dupes who actually fell for this trolling, I surmise that (1) the disinformation only confirmed the choices they already made, and (2) the stupidity of those sky-screaming dupes will never be good for success of a democracy, whether they are trolled or not.

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  30. yurivku says:
    @Randal

    Mr. Buchanan is correct, of course, that we interfere in other countries. But defending foreign hostility to America by pointing to America’s own misdeeds is a traditional leftist line.
     
    It's not a "leftist line" (at least in this case), it's one that's basic to human nature - don't dish it out if you can't take it in turn, and don't whine like a hypocritical two year old when you do get some back. Nothing "left wing" about that.

    There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side.
     
    No, not if you don't mind being a hypocrite.

    But hypocrisy is a very American thing - throughout your history you've been manipulated into wars by the very weakness you adhere to here. "We can do it but if anyone does it back to us that's unacceptable, because we're special" has been pretty much the way the US has been kept interfering around the world for decades.

    The answer is to stop doing it yourself, then complain about other people doing it. But that isn't going to happen, is it? Your lords and masters are going to keep poking their noses into other countries' affairs all over the world, and people like you are going to complain like bitches if you get any back, and those complaints will justify further aggression in response to supposedly unacceptable foreign "unprovoked" aggression/interference against your country.

    And I write that while being pretty much the very opposite of anything that could be described as "left wing", just as a foreigner weighing US behaviour.

    The answer is to stop doing it yourself, then complain about other people doing it.

    Great! Agree.

    Read More
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  31. ussr andy says:
    @Randal
    This "hysteria" as Buchanan accurately describes it is very characteristically American, in its sheer hypocritical dishonesty.

    The US has made a regular practice for a century or more of pushing and attacking others, via political interference, subversion, diplomacy or outright military aggression, until they respond, and then screaming hysterically about "unprovoked aggression" against America.

    It's who they are.

    >very characteristically American

    it’s the manichaeism (which is historically recent.) (no offence to actual Manichaeans, if such exist/fans of old Persia etc)

    https://aeon.co/essays/why-is-pop-culture-obsessed-with-battles-between-good-and-evil

    tl;dr: morals are attached not to the person, but to his group
    in order to be a good person, you have to be member of the right group (libs, presumably)
    AND you don’t actually have to be a good person, just being a right-thinking person justifies anything

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  32. Anon • Disclaimer says:

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  33. Rurik says:
    @International Jew
    Mr. Buchanan is correct, of course, that we interfere in other countries. But defending foreign hostility to America by pointing to America's own misdeeds is a traditional leftist line. As a patriotic American, Buchanan shouldn't be making that argument (nor does he need to, when the issue is a ridiculously tiny trolling operation).

    There's nothing wrong with us taking our own country's side. We're not obligated to submit to invasion, just because we took this country from the Indians. We're not obligated to tolerate nuclear weapons in Kim Il Sung's hands, just because we have nuclear weapons of our own.

    None of this is to say that we should use our power recklessly or with unnecessary ruthlessness. But putting our own interests first inevitably requires some deviation from a strict application of the Golden Rule.

    There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side.

    you’re having fun aren’t you

    it’s always amusing when a Zionist Jew uses the expression ‘our own country’, and then speaks of the America of apple pie and baseball as if that is the country that people (rightfully) want to see crushed under a thousand tons of comeuppance for its serial and heinous crimes.

    no Jew, it isn’t the America of Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best, that people are reeling from. It isn’t the America of 1970′s Rock and Roll, or Motown or even Disco!, that people everywhere would like to see locked up at Gitmo and water boarded.

    No International Jew. Rather it’s what America has become- ever since our government was fully corrupted into the service Israel, to the point of destroying other nations, torturing goat herders, ‘bug-splatting’ children, droning weddings, and mass-murdering, maiming and displacing millions upon millions of innocent men, women and children, all in a vain act of Satanic evil to sate an insatiable lust for murder and vengeance that emanates out of the bowels of your people’s endemic pathologies.

    Indeed, the very same insatiable lust for death and suffering and wholesale slaughter that dragged the US into two disastrous wars on behalf of Perfidious Albion. That festering den of snakes and pedophiles and treason, where Rothschild himself makes his home, and where International Jewish banksters have schemed for centuries to enslave the world to debt and tyranny. And of course, where “British” International Jews speak of as if it too is their country, as they scheme to spill British (and American) blood wherever possible.

    So I know you’re really amusing yourself by referring to that America of pre-Eternal Wars for Israel (and torture camps and droned weddings), as if it had any semblance whatsoever to the black and rotten soul of your OT maggot god of hatred and death- which has been the America of post 9/11 Israeli treachery and crime.

    Your “America” and mine are two mutually incompatible Americas, International Jew, as you well know.

    Yours is the America of standing ovations for a mass-murderer and genocidal war criminal.

    yours is the America of the Mossad working closely with the CIA to perpetrate 9/11

    your is the “America” of Total surveillance and police state thuggery and shipping automatic weapons to Mexican drug cartels, because you want to disarm my America, huh International Jew?

    Because my America is the one that one day just might hold yours responsible for the myriad and monstrous crimes it has committed and continues to commit in our name. And no Jew, when I say our, I do not mean America and Israel, but the America that might one day figure out what Israel did on 9/11, and then hold her to account.

    On that day, International Jew, you’ll find that using the word “our” to describe America, just won’t resonate like it has these past few decades.

    One that day, you’ll probably want to slither back to London, where you can feel safe and at home in your country. ;)

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    There are strange things afoot in Patagonia regarding large investments from Israel and much human activity, if it's at all possible to refer to Israel's military personnel as human. It is a large, isolated and mostly barren area and yet there have been several reports of much activity there. I wonder if this is one of the chosen (pardon the pun) locations to sit out the chaos they're causing?
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  34. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SteveK9
    'Yet we do have evidence that a senior British spy and Trump hater, Christopher Steele, paid by the Hillary Clinton campaign and DNC to dig up dirt on Trump, colluded with Kremlin agents to produce a dossier of scurrilous and unsubstantiated charges, to destroy the candidacy of Donald Trump. And the FBI used this disinformation to get FISA Court warrants to surveil and wiretap the Trump campaign.'

    Correct except for 'Kremlin agents' ... Steele hadn't been to Russia in more than 20 years. The 'dossier' is full of ridiculous mistakes ... about Russia. It's just as likely he made the whole thing up, or was fed stuff by the CIA, not the Kremlin.

    Yes, this is the same point made above by other commenters, including R T West and me.

    Does anyone here, at this point, honestly dispute that Mr. Buchanan and Mr. “Judge” Napolitano are not jesters at the imperial court, condoned by the Establishment as long as they’re willing to carry its Russophobic water? I had this revelation months ago – an intramural “red pill” about “our side” – and have since been addressing it and fruitlessly inviting rebuttal in my comments.

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  35. Rurik says:
    @NoseytheDuke
    China would be foolish NOT to fortify those islands, especially given the Western interference over an extended period in the region which is, after all, in China's backyard. China seeks trade not war and those islands are vital to securing their most important shipping routes.

    Hey Duke,

    in China’s backyard

    what about the Philippines?

    From what I understand, the disputed islands are much closer to the Philippines than to China.

    If proximity = claim, then doesn’t the Philippines have a legitimate case?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    The Philippines are not a world power, whereas China is. It's up to the Philippines to come to terms with China over their dispute (which seems to be proceeding at the moment), and those terms will inevitably reflect the different power levels and the different needs (China has a lot of trade at stake and realistic threats from external powers such as the US - a well established military aggressor, Philippines does not).

    It's a bit like the US versus its Monroe Doctrine satellites. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. So long as it is merely minor economic and security disputes such as over these islands and the sea around them, it's no sensible business of foreigners to interfere (and nor is US interference honest anyway - it's not really about helping the Philippines but about containing China and trying to hold on to the US's anachronistic position of relative power in the western Pacific).

    The US does and will interfere, of course, on exactly the same basis, for reasons of promoting its own power relative to China. But there's no special moral merit in it, and if it results in embarrassing failure or disproportionately costly conflict then that's the responsibility of the US regime, for its decision to interfere.
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  36. it’s amazing what supposed educated and elites believe.

    There’s not an iota of evidence that Russia has thus far done anything. There’s clear evidence that Israelis/Jews are conspiring via AIPAC, others, with members of the US to initiate laws that will make it impossible for US citizens to criticize or engage in boycotting Israel. There is in my view some credible evidence that Jews in this country and out have as ethos and practice steps to destroy the lives of anyone who criticizes Israel or as I understand it any Jew.

    In my view attempts by the Israeli government directly or indirectly to hinder the lives of US citizens is an act of war.

    Strange political organizations with no ties to the Russian government are just that strange political entities who may or may not have broken the law.

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  37. Svigor says:

    Spending a hundreds of thousands of dollars on digital marketing = beyond the pale.

    Invading southwest Asia and ending hundreds of thousands of lives = democracy.

    It’s more pearl-clutching than Pearl Harbor.

    Lol, classic.

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  38. @International Jew
    Mr. Buchanan is correct, of course, that we interfere in other countries. But defending foreign hostility to America by pointing to America's own misdeeds is a traditional leftist line. As a patriotic American, Buchanan shouldn't be making that argument (nor does he need to, when the issue is a ridiculously tiny trolling operation).

    There's nothing wrong with us taking our own country's side. We're not obligated to submit to invasion, just because we took this country from the Indians. We're not obligated to tolerate nuclear weapons in Kim Il Sung's hands, just because we have nuclear weapons of our own.

    None of this is to say that we should use our power recklessly or with unnecessary ruthlessness. But putting our own interests first inevitably requires some deviation from a strict application of the Golden Rule.

    “There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side.”

    True, so long as we don’t confuse the country with the government. The country is the land, the people and a common culture. The government is a collection of criminals who want very much for the people to think of the government as the country.

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  39. Randal says:
    @Rurik
    Hey Duke,

    in China’s backyard
     
    what about the Philippines?

    From what I understand, the disputed islands are much closer to the Philippines than to China.

    If proximity = claim, then doesn't the Philippines have a legitimate case?

    The Philippines are not a world power, whereas China is. It’s up to the Philippines to come to terms with China over their dispute (which seems to be proceeding at the moment), and those terms will inevitably reflect the different power levels and the different needs (China has a lot of trade at stake and realistic threats from external powers such as the US – a well established military aggressor, Philippines does not).

    It’s a bit like the US versus its Monroe Doctrine satellites. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. So long as it is merely minor economic and security disputes such as over these islands and the sea around them, it’s no sensible business of foreigners to interfere (and nor is US interference honest anyway – it’s not really about helping the Philippines but about containing China and trying to hold on to the US’s anachronistic position of relative power in the western Pacific).

    The US does and will interfere, of course, on exactly the same basis, for reasons of promoting its own power relative to China. But there’s no special moral merit in it, and if it results in embarrassing failure or disproportionately costly conflict then that’s the responsibility of the US regime, for its decision to interfere.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    The Philippines are not a world power, whereas China is. It’s up to the Philippines to come to terms with China over their dispute
     
    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?

    The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
     
    but, aren't we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?

    I know it's not about helping the Philippines per se, but I do wonder if nations like Japan aren't counting on the ZUS to contain China, since it has relinquished its military under those terms.

    Personally, I'd like the ZUS military to disband all its overseas adventures and bases and come home. And stop interfering in other nation's affairs, but then doesn't the US have an obligation to protect Japan's interests and the other nations of the region if China becomes a military bully?

    Or at least until they can build a military of their own, no?

    Wouldn't it be nice if the UN weren't a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this. Too bad everything has to boil down to the Darwinian language of reptiles and pond scum.

    Where are the civilized adults?
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  40. Rurik says:
    @Randal
    The Philippines are not a world power, whereas China is. It's up to the Philippines to come to terms with China over their dispute (which seems to be proceeding at the moment), and those terms will inevitably reflect the different power levels and the different needs (China has a lot of trade at stake and realistic threats from external powers such as the US - a well established military aggressor, Philippines does not).

    It's a bit like the US versus its Monroe Doctrine satellites. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. So long as it is merely minor economic and security disputes such as over these islands and the sea around them, it's no sensible business of foreigners to interfere (and nor is US interference honest anyway - it's not really about helping the Philippines but about containing China and trying to hold on to the US's anachronistic position of relative power in the western Pacific).

    The US does and will interfere, of course, on exactly the same basis, for reasons of promoting its own power relative to China. But there's no special moral merit in it, and if it results in embarrassing failure or disproportionately costly conflict then that's the responsibility of the US regime, for its decision to interfere.

    The Philippines are not a world power, whereas China is. It’s up to the Philippines to come to terms with China over their dispute

    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?

    The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?

    I know it’s not about helping the Philippines per se, but I do wonder if nations like Japan aren’t counting on the ZUS to contain China, since it has relinquished its military under those terms.

    Personally, I’d like the ZUS military to disband all its overseas adventures and bases and come home. And stop interfering in other nation’s affairs, but then doesn’t the US have an obligation to protect Japan’s interests and the other nations of the region if China becomes a military bully?

    Or at least until they can build a military of their own, no?

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the UN weren’t a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this. Too bad everything has to boil down to the Darwinian language of reptiles and pond scum.

    Where are the civilized adults?

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    • Replies: @Randal

    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?
     
    As far as I'm concerned the war to expel Argentine occupiers from the Falklands was the last incontrovertibly legitimate war my country engaged in (with the debatable exception of the first war against Iraq).

    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?
     
    No, "you" are the single biggest "bully" in the world.

    When you are told you are "standing up to a bully" it's almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the UN weren’t a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this.
     
    Well there were some very important international laws based upon treaty commitments your country voluntarily entered into, involving giving up your right to wage wars without collective authorisation (via UNSC vote). Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn't need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren't prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.

    For a further and more recent demonstration of the US sphere's complete disregard for the laws they themselves signed up to, look at Syria, and the arrogation by the US (and now France, it appears, is claiming the same status as rogue state) of a fabricated "right" to wage unilateral and shamelessly illegal aggressive war in response to reported supposed uses of chemical weapons.

    So if you want the biggest reason in today's world why laws still don't prevail even in the gravest matters of war and peace, look to Washington (and London, admittedly).
    , @NoseytheDuke
    The Islands that China is fortifying are largely unoccupied and are vital to their security and welfare, whereas the Falklands have a long history of occupation by people who have retained their British cultural identity and ties. The people have voted overwhelmingly to remain British. The islands have been settled by British people since even before Argentina was a nation. They claim inheritance from Spain but Spain didn't actually own the islands to pass on to Argentina at the time of independence.

    In any event, Argentina tried to settle the matter by force and lost.

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  41. Ximenes says:
    @Randal
    This "hysteria" as Buchanan accurately describes it is very characteristically American, in its sheer hypocritical dishonesty.

    The US has made a regular practice for a century or more of pushing and attacking others, via political interference, subversion, diplomacy or outright military aggression, until they respond, and then screaming hysterically about "unprovoked aggression" against America.

    It's who they are.

    “This “hysteria” as Buchanan accurately describes it is very characteristically American, in its sheer hypocritical dishonesty.”

    More accurately, it is characteristically Soviet, or Communist. It is a rehash of what Russians were bombarded with during the Soviet era. Maybe that’s why the Russians are so blase about it today, they recognize it from their own past.

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  42. Randal says:
    @Rurik

    The Philippines are not a world power, whereas China is. It’s up to the Philippines to come to terms with China over their dispute
     
    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?

    The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
     
    but, aren't we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?

    I know it's not about helping the Philippines per se, but I do wonder if nations like Japan aren't counting on the ZUS to contain China, since it has relinquished its military under those terms.

    Personally, I'd like the ZUS military to disband all its overseas adventures and bases and come home. And stop interfering in other nation's affairs, but then doesn't the US have an obligation to protect Japan's interests and the other nations of the region if China becomes a military bully?

    Or at least until they can build a military of their own, no?

    Wouldn't it be nice if the UN weren't a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this. Too bad everything has to boil down to the Darwinian language of reptiles and pond scum.

    Where are the civilized adults?

    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?

    As far as I’m concerned the war to expel Argentine occupiers from the Falklands was the last incontrovertibly legitimate war my country engaged in (with the debatable exception of the first war against Iraq).

    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?

    No, “you” are the single biggest “bully” in the world.

    When you are told you are “standing up to a bully” it’s almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the UN weren’t a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this.

    Well there were some very important international laws based upon treaty commitments your country voluntarily entered into, involving giving up your right to wage wars without collective authorisation (via UNSC vote). Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn’t need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren’t prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.

    For a further and more recent demonstration of the US sphere’s complete disregard for the laws they themselves signed up to, look at Syria, and the arrogation by the US (and now France, it appears, is claiming the same status as rogue state) of a fabricated “right” to wage unilateral and shamelessly illegal aggressive war in response to reported supposed uses of chemical weapons.

    So if you want the biggest reason in today’s world why laws still don’t prevail even in the gravest matters of war and peace, look to Washington (and London, admittedly).

    Read More
    • Replies: @MEexpert

    As far as I’m concerned the war to expel Argentine occupiers from the Falklands was the last incontrovertibly legitimate war my country engaged in (with the debatable exception of the first war against Iraq).
     
    I think you have it backwards. UK is the occupier in this case. They occupy a land that is thousands of miles away from the mainland. Argentina has more right on the Falklands than the British.

    Furthermore, there is no debate about the first Gulf war. That war was totally manufactured by the US.
    , @Rurik



    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?
     
    No, “you” are the single biggest “bully” in the world.
     
    one thing about you Randal, is that you generally choose your words carefully

    So, rather than saying 'the ZUS', or even the 'US', is the single biggest bully in the world, you instead write "you" are the single biggest bully in the world.

    Implying (or rather specifically stating in the king's English, that it is "I", humble Rurik, who is the biggest bully in the world.

    but of course it's not due to my forum frolics, for which I earn this dubious distinction, but rather because I happen to have been born a citizen of the ZUS of A. Huh?

    Few if any have been more critical of the zio-wars, so even if we're a peace-loving, truth-speaking American, that doesn't change the fact that we are- all of us, every singe one, guilty of the crimes of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

    By this metric, Ron Paul ought to be reviled and shouted down where ever he tries to speak. Oh, sure, he can wax on about 'we marched in, we can just march out', but that hardly changes the FACT that Ron Paul is an AMERICAN!, and that means that he too is a God damn bully!!

    Indeed, the "single biggest bully in the world" !

    huh?

    When you are told you are “standing up to a bully” it’s almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.
     
    no shit Sherlock

    Who, more than any other person on this forum has been pointing out the illegality and immorality of the Eternal Wars for years now?

    Is it possible that you're that daft? You don't seem so otherwise. Perhaps this is an issue with you?

    I point out that our government and ((media)) lie us into wars, and you rail at me for that, as if I am the government and ((media)). It's really so preposterous as to be funny.

    Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn’t need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren’t prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.
     
    I suppose this is an improvement, since now it isn't "you", but "your country", that is menacing the planet. But let's take a look shall we, at how your country treated those violations of International Law, eh?

    The United Kingdom participated in the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, which resulted in a UN administration of Kosovo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations

    hmm..

    so it seems, based on your metric, that you too are a bully and war criminal. How does that feel eh, Randal? Shouldn't you be showing some contrition for 'your' crimes?

    glass houses Randal

    (and London, admittedly).
     
    awe looky

    he tosses in that tepid little caveat of no real significance, huh?

    I'm the biggest bully in the world and war criminal and bastard, because I'm an American, and my government provides most of the blood and treasure spilled in the Fiend's eternal zio-wars.

    Rurik did it!

    but poor Randal is just a victim, because his government only provides a few souls to die for Israel, instead of thousands. And all he's doing (being as he's a Brit and therefor guilty of everything the British government does) is providing the moral 'justification' for the Eternal Wars, not most of the bombs.
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  43. MEexpert says:
    @Randal

    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?
     
    As far as I'm concerned the war to expel Argentine occupiers from the Falklands was the last incontrovertibly legitimate war my country engaged in (with the debatable exception of the first war against Iraq).

    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?
     
    No, "you" are the single biggest "bully" in the world.

    When you are told you are "standing up to a bully" it's almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the UN weren’t a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this.
     
    Well there were some very important international laws based upon treaty commitments your country voluntarily entered into, involving giving up your right to wage wars without collective authorisation (via UNSC vote). Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn't need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren't prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.

    For a further and more recent demonstration of the US sphere's complete disregard for the laws they themselves signed up to, look at Syria, and the arrogation by the US (and now France, it appears, is claiming the same status as rogue state) of a fabricated "right" to wage unilateral and shamelessly illegal aggressive war in response to reported supposed uses of chemical weapons.

    So if you want the biggest reason in today's world why laws still don't prevail even in the gravest matters of war and peace, look to Washington (and London, admittedly).

    As far as I’m concerned the war to expel Argentine occupiers from the Falklands was the last incontrovertibly legitimate war my country engaged in (with the debatable exception of the first war against Iraq).

    I think you have it backwards. UK is the occupier in this case. They occupy a land that is thousands of miles away from the mainland. Argentina has more right on the Falklands than the British.

    Furthermore, there is no debate about the first Gulf war. That war was totally manufactured by the US.

    Read More
    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @Randal

    I think you have it backwards. UK is the occupier in this case. They occupy a land that is thousands of miles away from the mainland. Argentina has more right on the Falklands than the British.
     
    No, that's - and no general disrespect intended - infantile nonsense based presumably on C20th hippy anti-colonial rubbish that doesn't even apply in this case because there were never any native inhabitants to colonise.

    Sovereignty is about people, not geographical location, and the people on the Falklands are as British as Orkney Islanders and have been for generations, and furthermore clearly want to be British and not Argentine.

    It's the equivalent of arguing that the Crimea should be Ukrainian regardless of the clear preference of the people there merely because Crimea is physically closer to Ukraine than to Russia.

    You ought to have grown out of that by now, frankly.


    Furthermore, there is no debate about the first Gulf war. That war was totally manufactured by the US.
     
    Now that is at least an issue that can be debated by grownups on both sides. I tend to sympathise with the American manipulation argument but ultimately come down on the side that says Saddam was responsible for letting himself be manipulated and his country paid the price. But I recognise the arguments on both sides.
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  44. @Rurik

    There’s nothing wrong with us taking our own country’s side.
     
    you're having fun aren't you

    it's always amusing when a Zionist Jew uses the expression 'our own country', and then speaks of the America of apple pie and baseball as if that is the country that people (rightfully) want to see crushed under a thousand tons of comeuppance for its serial and heinous crimes.

    no Jew, it isn't the America of Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best, that people are reeling from. It isn't the America of 1970's Rock and Roll, or Motown or even Disco!, that people everywhere would like to see locked up at Gitmo and water boarded.

    No International Jew. Rather it's what America has become- ever since our government was fully corrupted into the service Israel, to the point of destroying other nations, torturing goat herders, 'bug-splatting' children, droning weddings, and mass-murdering, maiming and displacing millions upon millions of innocent men, women and children, all in a vain act of Satanic evil to sate an insatiable lust for murder and vengeance that emanates out of the bowels of your people's endemic pathologies.

    Indeed, the very same insatiable lust for death and suffering and wholesale slaughter that dragged the US into two disastrous wars on behalf of Perfidious Albion. That festering den of snakes and pedophiles and treason, where Rothschild himself makes his home, and where International Jewish banksters have schemed for centuries to enslave the world to debt and tyranny. And of course, where "British" International Jews speak of as if it too is their country, as they scheme to spill British (and American) blood wherever possible.

    So I know you're really amusing yourself by referring to that America of pre-Eternal Wars for Israel (and torture camps and droned weddings), as if it had any semblance whatsoever to the black and rotten soul of your OT maggot god of hatred and death- which has been the America of post 9/11 Israeli treachery and crime.

    Your "America" and mine are two mutually incompatible Americas, International Jew, as you well know.

    Yours is the America of standing ovations for a mass-murderer and genocidal war criminal.

    yours is the America of the Mossad working closely with the CIA to perpetrate 9/11

    your is the "America" of Total surveillance and police state thuggery and shipping automatic weapons to Mexican drug cartels, because you want to disarm my America, huh International Jew?

    Because my America is the one that one day just might hold yours responsible for the myriad and monstrous crimes it has committed and continues to commit in our name. And no Jew, when I say our, I do not mean America and Israel, but the America that might one day figure out what Israel did on 9/11, and then hold her to account.

    On that day, International Jew, you'll find that using the word "our" to describe America, just won't resonate like it has these past few decades.

    One that day, you'll probably want to slither back to London, where you can feel safe and at home in your country. ;)

    There are strange things afoot in Patagonia regarding large investments from Israel and much human activity, if it’s at all possible to refer to Israel’s military personnel as human. It is a large, isolated and mostly barren area and yet there have been several reports of much activity there. I wonder if this is one of the chosen (pardon the pun) locations to sit out the chaos they’re causing?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    strange things afoot in Patagonia
     
    I've heard about that Duke,

    seem an Israeli billionaire or something is buying up the place and turning it into an IDF playground of sorts with lots of secrecy. Can't be good.

    The Islands that China is fortifying are largely unoccupied and are vital to their security and welfare, whereas the Falklands have a long history of occupation by people who have retained their British cultural identity and ties.
     
    I remember now the referendums held on the Falklands, and that's good enough for me. Self-determination is my mantra.

    >><<

    How are the islands any more vital to China's security and welfare than the Philippine's security and welfare?

    It seems like to me to be an ascendant China pushing the envelope of its hegemony.

    Who do the islands belong to historically? (I have no idea) Are there international protocols for dealing with such issues, or does it always boil down to who has the most guns?
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  45. @Rurik

    The Philippines are not a world power, whereas China is. It’s up to the Philippines to come to terms with China over their dispute
     
    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?

    The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
     
    but, aren't we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?

    I know it's not about helping the Philippines per se, but I do wonder if nations like Japan aren't counting on the ZUS to contain China, since it has relinquished its military under those terms.

    Personally, I'd like the ZUS military to disband all its overseas adventures and bases and come home. And stop interfering in other nation's affairs, but then doesn't the US have an obligation to protect Japan's interests and the other nations of the region if China becomes a military bully?

    Or at least until they can build a military of their own, no?

    Wouldn't it be nice if the UN weren't a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this. Too bad everything has to boil down to the Darwinian language of reptiles and pond scum.

    Where are the civilized adults?

    The Islands that China is fortifying are largely unoccupied and are vital to their security and welfare, whereas the Falklands have a long history of occupation by people who have retained their British cultural identity and ties. The people have voted overwhelmingly to remain British. The islands have been settled by British people since even before Argentina was a nation. They claim inheritance from Spain but Spain didn’t actually own the islands to pass on to Argentina at the time of independence.

    In any event, Argentina tried to settle the matter by force and lost.

    Read More
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  46. Randal says:
    @MEexpert

    As far as I’m concerned the war to expel Argentine occupiers from the Falklands was the last incontrovertibly legitimate war my country engaged in (with the debatable exception of the first war against Iraq).
     
    I think you have it backwards. UK is the occupier in this case. They occupy a land that is thousands of miles away from the mainland. Argentina has more right on the Falklands than the British.

    Furthermore, there is no debate about the first Gulf war. That war was totally manufactured by the US.

    I think you have it backwards. UK is the occupier in this case. They occupy a land that is thousands of miles away from the mainland. Argentina has more right on the Falklands than the British.

    No, that’s – and no general disrespect intended – infantile nonsense based presumably on C20th hippy anti-colonial rubbish that doesn’t even apply in this case because there were never any native inhabitants to colonise.

    Sovereignty is about people, not geographical location, and the people on the Falklands are as British as Orkney Islanders and have been for generations, and furthermore clearly want to be British and not Argentine.

    It’s the equivalent of arguing that the Crimea should be Ukrainian regardless of the clear preference of the people there merely because Crimea is physically closer to Ukraine than to Russia.

    You ought to have grown out of that by now, frankly.

    Furthermore, there is no debate about the first Gulf war. That war was totally manufactured by the US.

    Now that is at least an issue that can be debated by grownups on both sides. I tend to sympathise with the American manipulation argument but ultimately come down on the side that says Saddam was responsible for letting himself be manipulated and his country paid the price. But I recognise the arguments on both sides.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    but ultimately come down on the side that says Saddam was responsible for letting himself be manipulated and his country paid the price
     
    they were Iraqis after all!

    they shouldn't have tossed those babies out of those incubators!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y57tFwDsem0

    just listen to the first few seconds as he mentions (with his proper British accent)

    "what the Ministry of Defense describes as a successful mission"..

    If you've read Orwell, the BBC journalist using the term "Ministry of Defense" is as Orwellian as it gets.

    Rurik ~ the war criminal
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  47. Not to mention the fact that the Argentine Junta was a brutal dictatorship that “disappeared” tens of thousands of their people including by throwing them out of aeroplanes over the sea. They thought that the war would increase feelings of “patriotism” and get them off the hook but they miscalculated as the hateful Mrs Thatcher saw that the “patriotic” boost would help her too and sadly, she was right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Not to mention the fact that the Argentine Junta was a brutal dictatorship
     
    Well I didn't mention that because it implies it might have been alright for Argentina to occupy the Falklands if Argentina were run by a nice hippy bunch of handshakeworthy lefties.

    That way lies the leftist branch of the bipartisan US sphere warmongery justification - "humanitarian intervention". It's ok to bomb people if it's good guys bombing bad guys.


    they miscalculated as the hateful Mrs Thatcher saw that the “patriotic” boost would help her too and sadly, she was right
     
    I voted for her myself, and would do so again. She was far from perfect and did a lot of damage in her own way, but like Trump she was head and shoulders above the alternatives (the best you can expect in any large democracy). The fact that she had the testicular fortitude (sic) to boot out the Argentine occupiers - at serious risk of terminal damage to her career and reputation if anything had gone wrong, and it very easily could have done - was just another reason for voting for her. Most of the Tory inadequates around her and all of the treasonous types in the opposition parties would have entered into "negotiations" with the Argies - in other words, surrendered first and then stated talking about what the terms would be afterwards.
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  48. Mr. Hack says:

    Sen. John McCain and Victoria Nuland of State egged on the Maidan Square crowds in Kiev that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine.

    A big Boo Hoo, eh Pat? It was Nuland’s milk and cookies and the PR campaign of an old American cowboy that inspired the presence of hundreds of thousand of demonstrators on the streets of Kyiv that brought down one of the most corrupt politicians that Europe has experienced in decades since the end of WWII?…It’s time to update your Oliver Stone inspired BS narrative.

    Read More
    • Replies: @22pp22
    Are their replacements any less corrupt? I am not Ukrainian, but I have Ukrainian friends who are divided politically between pr0-Westerners from Lviv and Russophiles from Odessa and one from Kiev who sits resolutely on the fence.

    All of them knew that the Maidan would lead to war. Yours is the BS narrative.
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  49. 22pp22 says:
    @Mr. Hack

    Sen. John McCain and Victoria Nuland of State egged on the Maidan Square crowds in Kiev that overthrew the elected government of Ukraine.
     
    A big Boo Hoo, eh Pat? It was Nuland's milk and cookies and the PR campaign of an old American cowboy that inspired the presence of hundreds of thousand of demonstrators on the streets of Kyiv that brought down one of the most corrupt politicians that Europe has experienced in decades since the end of WWII?...It's time to update your Oliver Stone inspired BS narrative.

    Are their replacements any less corrupt? I am not Ukrainian, but I have Ukrainian friends who are divided politically between pr0-Westerners from Lviv and Russophiles from Odessa and one from Kiev who sits resolutely on the fence.

    All of them knew that the Maidan would lead to war. Yours is the BS narrative.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Hack

    Are their replacements any less corrupt?
     
    Perhaps slightly. However I have not come out with any ringing endorsements of the current crop. If need be, they should be chased out of town too.

    All of them knew that the Maidan would lead to war. Yours is the BS narrative.
     
    Russia initiated and continues to support this war. Ukrainians have every right to formulate their own policies, the right to assemble and to harass foreign troops within their territories. Your's is the BS narratives of appeasers and fifth column activists, ready to bend over to their Russian paymasters.
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  50. Randal says:
    @NoseytheDuke
    Not to mention the fact that the Argentine Junta was a brutal dictatorship that "disappeared" tens of thousands of their people including by throwing them out of aeroplanes over the sea. They thought that the war would increase feelings of "patriotism" and get them off the hook but they miscalculated as the hateful Mrs Thatcher saw that the "patriotic" boost would help her too and sadly, she was right.

    Not to mention the fact that the Argentine Junta was a brutal dictatorship

    Well I didn’t mention that because it implies it might have been alright for Argentina to occupy the Falklands if Argentina were run by a nice hippy bunch of handshakeworthy lefties.

    That way lies the leftist branch of the bipartisan US sphere warmongery justification – “humanitarian intervention”. It’s ok to bomb people if it’s good guys bombing bad guys.

    they miscalculated as the hateful Mrs Thatcher saw that the “patriotic” boost would help her too and sadly, she was right

    I voted for her myself, and would do so again. She was far from perfect and did a lot of damage in her own way, but like Trump she was head and shoulders above the alternatives (the best you can expect in any large democracy). The fact that she had the testicular fortitude (sic) to boot out the Argentine occupiers – at serious risk of terminal damage to her career and reputation if anything had gone wrong, and it very easily could have done – was just another reason for voting for her. Most of the Tory inadequates around her and all of the treasonous types in the opposition parties would have entered into “negotiations” with the Argies – in other words, surrendered first and then stated talking about what the terms would be afterwards.

    Read More
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  51. Mr. Hack says:
    @22pp22
    Are their replacements any less corrupt? I am not Ukrainian, but I have Ukrainian friends who are divided politically between pr0-Westerners from Lviv and Russophiles from Odessa and one from Kiev who sits resolutely on the fence.

    All of them knew that the Maidan would lead to war. Yours is the BS narrative.

    Are their replacements any less corrupt?

    Perhaps slightly. However I have not come out with any ringing endorsements of the current crop. If need be, they should be chased out of town too.

    All of them knew that the Maidan would lead to war. Yours is the BS narrative.

    Russia initiated and continues to support this war. Ukrainians have every right to formulate their own policies, the right to assemble and to harass foreign troops within their territories. Your’s is the BS narratives of appeasers and fifth column activists, ready to bend over to their Russian paymasters.

    Read More
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  52. Rurik says:
    @Randal

    If I may ask, where are you philosophically vis-a-vis the issue of the Falkland Islands?
     
    As far as I'm concerned the war to expel Argentine occupiers from the Falklands was the last incontrovertibly legitimate war my country engaged in (with the debatable exception of the first war against Iraq).

    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?
     
    No, "you" are the single biggest "bully" in the world.

    When you are told you are "standing up to a bully" it's almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if the UN weren’t a den of corruption, and were able to work these issues out like adults, with a nod to simple tenets of justice and fair play? Why are there no rules regarding these things. Why, at this late date, must all these issues boil down to who has the most guns?

    There ought to be International Laws governing stuff like this.
     
    Well there were some very important international laws based upon treaty commitments your country voluntarily entered into, involving giving up your right to wage wars without collective authorisation (via UNSC vote). Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn't need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren't prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.

    For a further and more recent demonstration of the US sphere's complete disregard for the laws they themselves signed up to, look at Syria, and the arrogation by the US (and now France, it appears, is claiming the same status as rogue state) of a fabricated "right" to wage unilateral and shamelessly illegal aggressive war in response to reported supposed uses of chemical weapons.

    So if you want the biggest reason in today's world why laws still don't prevail even in the gravest matters of war and peace, look to Washington (and London, admittedly).

    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?

    No, “you” are the single biggest “bully” in the world.

    one thing about you Randal, is that you generally choose your words carefully

    So, rather than saying ‘the ZUS’, or even the ‘US’, is the single biggest bully in the world, you instead write “you” are the single biggest bully in the world.

    Implying (or rather specifically stating in the king’s English, that it is “I”, humble Rurik, who is the biggest bully in the world.

    but of course it’s not due to my forum frolics, for which I earn this dubious distinction, but rather because I happen to have been born a citizen of the ZUS of A. Huh?

    Few if any have been more critical of the zio-wars, so even if we’re a peace-loving, truth-speaking American, that doesn’t change the fact that we are- all of us, every singe one, guilty of the crimes of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

    By this metric, Ron Paul ought to be reviled and shouted down where ever he tries to speak. Oh, sure, he can wax on about ‘we marched in, we can just march out’, but that hardly changes the FACT that Ron Paul is an AMERICAN!, and that means that he too is a God damn bully!!

    Indeed, the “single biggest bully in the world” !

    huh?

    When you are told you are “standing up to a bully” it’s almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.

    no shit Sherlock

    Who, more than any other person on this forum has been pointing out the illegality and immorality of the Eternal Wars for years now?

    Is it possible that you’re that daft? You don’t seem so otherwise. Perhaps this is an issue with you?

    I point out that our government and ((media)) lie us into wars, and you rail at me for that, as if I am the government and ((media)). It’s really so preposterous as to be funny.

    Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn’t need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren’t prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.

    I suppose this is an improvement, since now it isn’t “you”, but “your country”, that is menacing the planet. But let’s take a look shall we, at how your country treated those violations of International Law, eh?

    The United Kingdom participated in the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, which resulted in a UN administration of Kosovo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations

    hmm..

    so it seems, based on your metric, that you too are a bully and war criminal. How does that feel eh, Randal? Shouldn’t you be showing some contrition for ‘your’ crimes?

    glass houses Randal

    (and London, admittedly).

    awe looky

    he tosses in that tepid little caveat of no real significance, huh?

    I’m the biggest bully in the world and war criminal and bastard, because I’m an American, and my government provides most of the blood and treasure spilled in the Fiend’s eternal zio-wars.

    Rurik did it!

    but poor Randal is just a victim, because his government only provides a few souls to die for Israel, instead of thousands. And all he’s doing (being as he’s a Brit and therefor guilty of everything the British government does) is providing the moral ‘justification’ for the Eternal Wars, not most of the bombs.

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    • Replies: @Randal

    one thing about you Randal, is that you generally choose your words carefully

    So, rather than saying ‘the ZUS’, or even the ‘US’, is the single biggest bully in the world, you instead write “you” are the single biggest bully in the world.

    Implying (or rather specifically stating in the king’s English, that it is “I”, humble Rurik, who is the biggest bully in the world.
     
    You're right that I do generally choose my words carefully and in this case I'd say we have a genuine honest (and understandable) misunderstanding.

    My intention in putting "you" in quotes was specifically to make it clear that though I used the term "you" as shorthand, I did not mean you, personally, but rather your country (or its government, or those who "influence" its government, etc). My apologies for not making it clearer.

    As for the glass house bit, well I made it clear at the end that I recognise my own country's collaboration (enthusiastic on the part of its elites and most of its almost as propagandised as Americans people) with US misbehaviour.

    The difference is that my country is a regional power within the US sphere, that almost invariably does not act without an assumption at least of US approval, whereas your country is a superpower with global reach (indeed arguably the only superpower with genuinely global reach, though Russia advocates might dispute that), a prime mover.

    Big difference.

    Don't assume that anything I write should be interpreted as a personal slight, Rurik, because broadly speaking I like the cut of your jib. I disagree with you about some things, inevitably, some of them quite significant, but in the main I see you as part of the way forward, not part of the problem, like some other commenters. I'm not writing that to try to ingratiate or smarm, because I'm sure we will have our heated debates in the future as we have on occasion in the past. I just want to make clear that if in doubt you shouldn't jump to a conclusion that I'm making a personal dig at you. There are others here who would be justified in making that assumption, if not always correct.
    , @Twodees Partain
    "we are- all of us, every singe one, guilty of the crimes of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump."

    How is anyone guilty of their crimes besides them? Is it because we didn't storm their SS cordons and drag them out and hang them? Do you also think that the children of a murderer should be hanged?

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  53. Rurik says:
    @NoseytheDuke
    There are strange things afoot in Patagonia regarding large investments from Israel and much human activity, if it's at all possible to refer to Israel's military personnel as human. It is a large, isolated and mostly barren area and yet there have been several reports of much activity there. I wonder if this is one of the chosen (pardon the pun) locations to sit out the chaos they're causing?

    strange things afoot in Patagonia

    I’ve heard about that Duke,

    seem an Israeli billionaire or something is buying up the place and turning it into an IDF playground of sorts with lots of secrecy. Can’t be good.

    The Islands that China is fortifying are largely unoccupied and are vital to their security and welfare, whereas the Falklands have a long history of occupation by people who have retained their British cultural identity and ties.

    I remember now the referendums held on the Falklands, and that’s good enough for me. Self-determination is my mantra.

    >><<

    How are the islands any more vital to China's security and welfare than the Philippine's security and welfare?

    It seems like to me to be an ascendant China pushing the envelope of its hegemony.

    Who do the islands belong to historically? (I have no idea) Are there international protocols for dealing with such issues, or does it always boil down to who has the most guns?

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  54. Rurik says:
    @Randal

    I think you have it backwards. UK is the occupier in this case. They occupy a land that is thousands of miles away from the mainland. Argentina has more right on the Falklands than the British.
     
    No, that's - and no general disrespect intended - infantile nonsense based presumably on C20th hippy anti-colonial rubbish that doesn't even apply in this case because there were never any native inhabitants to colonise.

    Sovereignty is about people, not geographical location, and the people on the Falklands are as British as Orkney Islanders and have been for generations, and furthermore clearly want to be British and not Argentine.

    It's the equivalent of arguing that the Crimea should be Ukrainian regardless of the clear preference of the people there merely because Crimea is physically closer to Ukraine than to Russia.

    You ought to have grown out of that by now, frankly.


    Furthermore, there is no debate about the first Gulf war. That war was totally manufactured by the US.
     
    Now that is at least an issue that can be debated by grownups on both sides. I tend to sympathise with the American manipulation argument but ultimately come down on the side that says Saddam was responsible for letting himself be manipulated and his country paid the price. But I recognise the arguments on both sides.

    but ultimately come down on the side that says Saddam was responsible for letting himself be manipulated and his country paid the price

    they were Iraqis after all!

    they shouldn’t have tossed those babies out of those incubators!

    just listen to the first few seconds as he mentions (with his proper British accent)

    “what the Ministry of Defense describes as a successful mission”..

    If you’ve read Orwell, the BBC journalist using the term “Ministry of Defense” is as Orwellian as it gets.

    Rurik ~ the war criminal

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  55. Randal says:
    @Rurik



    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?
     
    No, “you” are the single biggest “bully” in the world.
     
    one thing about you Randal, is that you generally choose your words carefully

    So, rather than saying 'the ZUS', or even the 'US', is the single biggest bully in the world, you instead write "you" are the single biggest bully in the world.

    Implying (or rather specifically stating in the king's English, that it is "I", humble Rurik, who is the biggest bully in the world.

    but of course it's not due to my forum frolics, for which I earn this dubious distinction, but rather because I happen to have been born a citizen of the ZUS of A. Huh?

    Few if any have been more critical of the zio-wars, so even if we're a peace-loving, truth-speaking American, that doesn't change the fact that we are- all of us, every singe one, guilty of the crimes of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

    By this metric, Ron Paul ought to be reviled and shouted down where ever he tries to speak. Oh, sure, he can wax on about 'we marched in, we can just march out', but that hardly changes the FACT that Ron Paul is an AMERICAN!, and that means that he too is a God damn bully!!

    Indeed, the "single biggest bully in the world" !

    huh?

    When you are told you are “standing up to a bully” it’s almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.
     
    no shit Sherlock

    Who, more than any other person on this forum has been pointing out the illegality and immorality of the Eternal Wars for years now?

    Is it possible that you're that daft? You don't seem so otherwise. Perhaps this is an issue with you?

    I point out that our government and ((media)) lie us into wars, and you rail at me for that, as if I am the government and ((media)). It's really so preposterous as to be funny.

    Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn’t need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren’t prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.
     
    I suppose this is an improvement, since now it isn't "you", but "your country", that is menacing the planet. But let's take a look shall we, at how your country treated those violations of International Law, eh?

    The United Kingdom participated in the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, which resulted in a UN administration of Kosovo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations

    hmm..

    so it seems, based on your metric, that you too are a bully and war criminal. How does that feel eh, Randal? Shouldn't you be showing some contrition for 'your' crimes?

    glass houses Randal

    (and London, admittedly).
     
    awe looky

    he tosses in that tepid little caveat of no real significance, huh?

    I'm the biggest bully in the world and war criminal and bastard, because I'm an American, and my government provides most of the blood and treasure spilled in the Fiend's eternal zio-wars.

    Rurik did it!

    but poor Randal is just a victim, because his government only provides a few souls to die for Israel, instead of thousands. And all he's doing (being as he's a Brit and therefor guilty of everything the British government does) is providing the moral 'justification' for the Eternal Wars, not most of the bombs.

    one thing about you Randal, is that you generally choose your words carefully

    So, rather than saying ‘the ZUS’, or even the ‘US’, is the single biggest bully in the world, you instead write “you” are the single biggest bully in the world.

    Implying (or rather specifically stating in the king’s English, that it is “I”, humble Rurik, who is the biggest bully in the world.

    You’re right that I do generally choose my words carefully and in this case I’d say we have a genuine honest (and understandable) misunderstanding.

    My intention in putting “you” in quotes was specifically to make it clear that though I used the term “you” as shorthand, I did not mean you, personally, but rather your country (or its government, or those who “influence” its government, etc). My apologies for not making it clearer.

    As for the glass house bit, well I made it clear at the end that I recognise my own country’s collaboration (enthusiastic on the part of its elites and most of its almost as propagandised as Americans people) with US misbehaviour.

    The difference is that my country is a regional power within the US sphere, that almost invariably does not act without an assumption at least of US approval, whereas your country is a superpower with global reach (indeed arguably the only superpower with genuinely global reach, though Russia advocates might dispute that), a prime mover.

    Big difference.

    Don’t assume that anything I write should be interpreted as a personal slight, Rurik, because broadly speaking I like the cut of your jib. I disagree with you about some things, inevitably, some of them quite significant, but in the main I see you as part of the way forward, not part of the problem, like some other commenters. I’m not writing that to try to ingratiate or smarm, because I’m sure we will have our heated debates in the future as we have on occasion in the past. I just want to make clear that if in doubt you shouldn’t jump to a conclusion that I’m making a personal dig at you. There are others here who would be justified in making that assumption, if not always correct.

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  56. Rurik says:

    in the main I see you as part of the way forward, not part of the problem,

    it’s mutual

    I know you put it in quotes, but I still sense a general hostility to America and yes, even Americans, on this forum at times.

    we’re seen as USA! chanting, bovine cowards who never actually take on a opponent who can fight back. The “exceptional” people, for Christ’s sake!

    And yes, look at what ‘we’ve’ done in our craven fealty to all things Israel. It’s beyond monstrous, but then, it’s not like it’s unprecedented, because look at what ‘we’ (England and the US, et al) did in the last century. The treachery against Germany and destroying her utterly because ‘we’ wanted ((Bolshevism)) to enslave Europe.

    But what some people don’t realize is how all that of that evil bothers some of us Americans more than it bothers some others (at least the ones America isn’t bombing at the moment).

    Some of us feel particularly angry that it is our nation that is used like a rabid dog to slaughter and maim innocent people for Jewish supremacists and the MIC.

    It is the ZUS that has lavished trillions on weapons and corruption so that Arabs and Ukrainians and others die (including young Americans).

    And all of it, ALL of it in service to our most intractable and insidious enemy. The same men who plotted and planed and conducted the staggeringly heinous crime of 9/11- that horrifically slaughtered thousands of Americans and others- are the same men on whose behalf we are dying and killing and bankrupting our future for. Not only is that morally loathsome, it’s down right humiliating. (Such a deal!)

    Not only are ‘we’ earning the well-deserved hatred of the people of the planet, but we’re damning ourselves as ‘we’ allow ((them)) to eviscerate our Constitutional rights and plunge us into a Total surveillance police state.

    So we get to lose our freedoms, and we get to bankrupt our children’s future, and we get to bury thousands of young Americans- plus the 20 or so who snuff it daily because their souls are intact and can not abide living with the evils the Fiend has caused them to do in its name.

    We now have a permanent torture camp, and so the America of my childhood is dead.

    Jimmy Stewart is no longer an icon of today’s American character. Now it’s Sheldon Adelson whose persona is stamped on our main exports, death and cultural sewage.

    I could write at length about this transformation from America of Bob Seger and Fleetwood Mac, into the America of ‘you’re either with us, or against us’ gangsterism, but I’m not sure I’ll accomplish anything.

    The people who hate what America has become, have very good reasons for doing so, and most of all those of us Americans who watch in horror at what the ((PTB)) have wrought and how our nation has been turned into a Satanic whore of the Fiend- and where that trajectory is taking us all.

    I, more so than many non-Americans, hope against all hope that the dollar loses it’s world reserve currency status, and even as our economy would implode, and there is much suffering…

    if that is what it would finally take to End the Fed, and put a stake though the black and Satanic heart of the Fiend, then by all means, please world, find an alternative reserve currency!

    You’re children’s welfare depends on it, (believe me!) no matter what nationality you happen to have been born with.

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  57. @Rurik



    but, aren’t we supposed to stand up to the bullies of the world, at least in principle?
     
    No, “you” are the single biggest “bully” in the world.
     
    one thing about you Randal, is that you generally choose your words carefully

    So, rather than saying 'the ZUS', or even the 'US', is the single biggest bully in the world, you instead write "you" are the single biggest bully in the world.

    Implying (or rather specifically stating in the king's English, that it is "I", humble Rurik, who is the biggest bully in the world.

    but of course it's not due to my forum frolics, for which I earn this dubious distinction, but rather because I happen to have been born a citizen of the ZUS of A. Huh?

    Few if any have been more critical of the zio-wars, so even if we're a peace-loving, truth-speaking American, that doesn't change the fact that we are- all of us, every singe one, guilty of the crimes of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.

    By this metric, Ron Paul ought to be reviled and shouted down where ever he tries to speak. Oh, sure, he can wax on about 'we marched in, we can just march out', but that hardly changes the FACT that Ron Paul is an AMERICAN!, and that means that he too is a God damn bully!!

    Indeed, the "single biggest bully in the world" !

    huh?

    When you are told you are “standing up to a bully” it’s almost invariably the propaganda lie used to gull you into supporting whatever war of aggression your lords and masters want to perpetrate.
     
    no shit Sherlock

    Who, more than any other person on this forum has been pointing out the illegality and immorality of the Eternal Wars for years now?

    Is it possible that you're that daft? You don't seem so otherwise. Perhaps this is an issue with you?

    I point out that our government and ((media)) lie us into wars, and you rail at me for that, as if I am the government and ((media)). It's really so preposterous as to be funny.

    Your country decided after the collapse of the Soviet Union that it didn’t need those stinking laws after all and attacked first Yugoslavia and then Iraq in complete disregard of the rules we all signed up to, because your rulers weren’t prepared to accept that other countries might disagree with your rulers about when a war was needed.
     
    I suppose this is an improvement, since now it isn't "you", but "your country", that is menacing the planet. But let's take a look shall we, at how your country treated those violations of International Law, eh?

    The United Kingdom participated in the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, which resulted in a UN administration of Kosovo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_relations

    hmm..

    so it seems, based on your metric, that you too are a bully and war criminal. How does that feel eh, Randal? Shouldn't you be showing some contrition for 'your' crimes?

    glass houses Randal

    (and London, admittedly).
     
    awe looky

    he tosses in that tepid little caveat of no real significance, huh?

    I'm the biggest bully in the world and war criminal and bastard, because I'm an American, and my government provides most of the blood and treasure spilled in the Fiend's eternal zio-wars.

    Rurik did it!

    but poor Randal is just a victim, because his government only provides a few souls to die for Israel, instead of thousands. And all he's doing (being as he's a Brit and therefor guilty of everything the British government does) is providing the moral 'justification' for the Eternal Wars, not most of the bombs.

    “we are- all of us, every singe one, guilty of the crimes of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.”

    How is anyone guilty of their crimes besides them? Is it because we didn’t storm their SS cordons and drag them out and hang them? Do you also think that the children of a murderer should be hanged?

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  58. Rurik says:

    “we are- all of us, every singe one, guilty of the crimes of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump.”

    How is anyone guilty of their crimes besides them?

    exactly my point Twodees,

    that part you quoted was sarcasm

    and it is directed at all the people here at Unz and beyond that blame the American sheople for the crimes of our criminal and unaccountable zio-government.

    The same zio-governments that controls England and France and Germany and Australia and Canada and many, many other nations. But because we Americans have the dubious distinction of being the Zionists big, stupid, deadly golem, we get to pay in our blood and treasure for the serial atrocities committed all over the planet in Zion’$ name.

    such a deal !

    not

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