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In Hong Kong, It's US vs. China Now
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At first glance, it would appear that five months of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong had produced a stunning triumph.

By September, the proposal of city leader Carrie Lam that ignited the protests — to allow criminal suspects to be extradited to China for trial — had been withdrawn.

And though the protesters’ demands escalated along with their tactics, from marches to mass civil disobedience, Molotov cocktails, riots and attacks on police, Chinese troops remained confined to their barracks.

Beijing wanted no reenactment of Tiananmen Square, the midnight massacre in the heart of Beijing that drowned in blood the 1989 uprising for democratic rights.

In Hong Kong, the police have not used lethal force. In five months of clashes, only a few have perished. And when elections came last month, Beijing was stunned by the landslide victory of the protesters.

Finally, last month, Congress passed by huge margins in both houses a Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act that threatens sanctions on Hong Kong authorities should they crush the rebels.

When President Donald Trump signed the bills, the protesters now had the U.S. as an ally, and the Chinese reacted viscerally.

An enraged Foreign Ministry declared: “The US … openly backed violent criminals who rampantly smashed facilities, set fire, assaulted innocent civilians, trampled on the rule of law and jeopardized social order.

“This so-called bill will only make the Chinese people … further understand the sinister intentions and hegemonic nature of the United States. It will only make the Chinese people more united and make the American plot more doomed to failure.”

Thus do the Hong Kong protesters appear victorious, for now.

Sunday, black-clad masked protesters were back in the streets, waving American flags, erecting barricades, issuing new demands — for greater autonomy for Hong Kong, the release of jailed protesters and the punishment of police who used excessive force.

This confrontation is far from over.

Instead, it has escalated, and the U.S. government, having given up its posture of benevolent neutrality in favor of peaceful demonstrators for democracy, has become an open ally of often-violent people who are battling Chinese police inside a Chinese city.

On Monday, China retaliated, suspending visits to Hong Kong by U.S. military planes and Navy ships and declaring sanctions on the National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House and half a dozen other U.S. agencies that promote democracy for interfering in the internal affairs of China.

And there is another issue here — the matter of face.

China has just celebrated the 70th anniversary of the Revolution where Mao proclaimed, “China has stood up!” after a century of foreign humiliations and occupations.

Can Xi Jinping, already the object of a Maoist cult of personality, accept U.S. intervention in the internal affairs of his country or a city that belongs to China? Not likely. Nor is China likely to accede to demands for greater sovereignty, self-determination or independence for Hong Kong.

This would only raise hopes of the city’s eventual escape from its ordained destiny: direct rule by Beijing when the 50-year China-U.K. treaty regarding the transfer of Hong Kong expires in 2047.

For Xi to capitulate to the demands of Hong Kong’s demonstrators could cause an outbreak of protests in other Chinese cities and bring on a crisis of the regime.

Xi Jinping is no Mikhail Gorbachev. He is not going to let his people go. He is not going to risk a revolution to overturn the Maoist Revolution he has served his entire life.

ORDER IT NOW

A ruler committing the atrocities Xi is committing today in the concentration camps in the Uighur regions of China is staying his hand in Hong Kong only so the world and the West cannot see the true face of the ideology in which this true believer believes.

In providing moral support for protesters in Hong Kong who desire the freedoms we enjoy, America is on the right side. But to align the U.S. with the protesters’ cause, and threaten sanctions if their demands are not met, is to lead these demonstrators to make demands that Hong Kong’s rulers cannot meet and China will not allow.

We should ask ourselves some questions before we declare our solidarity with the protesters engaging the Hong Kong police.

If the police crush them, or if China’s army moves in and crushes the demonstrators whose hopes were raised by America’s declared solidarity, then what are we prepared to do to save them and their cause?

Are we willing to impose sanctions on Beijing, such as we have on Venezuela, Iran and Vladimir Putin’s Russia?

Some of us yet recall how the Voice of America broadcast to the Hungarian rebels of 1956 that if they rose up and threw the Russians out, we would be at their side. The Hungarians rose up. We did nothing. And one of the great bloodbaths of the Cold War ensued.

Are we telling the protesters of Hong Kong, “We’ve got your back!” when we really don’t?

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2019 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: China, Hong Kong, Russia 
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  1. mijj says:

    as usual, wisdom emanating from the US is of the cartoon variety.

    • Agree: Realist, AnonFromTN
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  2. Huskynut says:

    “In providing moral support for protesters in Hong Kong who desire the freedoms we enjoy, America is on the right side”.

    Oh, FFS..! The US desires to wound its rival China via support for their enemies. Nothing less and nothing more.

    If China (or Russia, Iran, Venezuela etc) supported, say, the Poor Boys (or Black Lives Matter) in the same manner and to the same extent as the US is supporting the Hong Kong protesters, US political heads would explode in anger.

    Buchanan is a little more nativist USA’n – dedicated to US prominence and dominance. Their is a huge difference between being patriotic and defending your country’s internal structure, and defending the “right” to dominate external countries.

    • Replies: @Realist
  3. US will not back Hong Kongians.
    ‘Murka backs just one chosen country,
    And it’s not our own.

    China will cut off rare earthians.
    When ‘Murka loses cell and TV,
    They will run and moan.

  4. Pat, this article reads like pre-Internet propaganda, from the days when we had no choice but to swallow the nonsense our government churned out. Not anymore.

    There was no “midnight massacre in Tiananmen Square, the heart of Beijing, that drowned in blood the 1989 uprising for democratic rights”. No massacre, no blood, and no interest in democratic rights. Read the whole story here: http://www.unz.com/article/tiananmen-square-1989-revisited/

    As to the “atrocities Xi is committing today in the concentration camps in the Uighur regions of China”? There are no concentration camps and no atrocities. The allegations are made by people who have never visited the centers–including the EU, which twice refused to send inspectors.

    The re-education centers are for a bunch of illiterate would-be terrorists getting job training before they graduate and go out to jobs that have been created for them. That’s what twelve inspectors from Muslim countries–despatched there by the World Muslim Council–reported. Read http://www.unz.com/article/uyghurs-political-islam-the-bri/ and http://www.unz.com/article/china-and-the-uyghurs/

    • Agree: follyofwar
    • Replies: @follyofwar
  5. Svevlad says:

    Tiananmen was literally blown out of proportion, turning it into a object of religious devotion for western cucks of all political sides

  6. “China retaliated, suspending visits to Hong Kong by U.S. military planes and Navy ships and declaring sanctions on the National Endowment for Democracy, Freedom House and half a dozen other U.S. agencies that promote democracy for interfering in the internal affairs of China.”
    Good God ! Its taken this long for the Chinese to wise up ? (“A ruler committing the atrocities Xi is committing today in the concentration camps in the Uighur regions ” Incidentally Pat, apart from a lack of evidence for “atrocities”, if the NED etc had NOT interfered in Chinese business by encouraging & financially supporting Uighur terrorism, then perhaps the “concentration camps”
    might have proved unnecessary.

    “Are we telling the protesters of Hong Kong, “We’ve got your back!” when we really don’t?”
    Is this question actually sincere, rhetorical, or the consequence of deep delusion ?

    “the U.S. government, having given up its posture of benevolent neutrality in favor of peaceful demonstrators for democracy, has become an open ally of often-violent people who are battling Chinese police inside a Chinese city.”
    “Benevolent neutrality” ? Peaceful & violent demonstrators ? I’m glad Pat can tell them apart because many of us haven’t found it that easy.
    The US has always favoured the “violent” demonstrators, because they have the best chance of causing the long hoped for sequel: Tiananmen Square – The empire Strikes Back.

    • Replies: @Arioch
  7. Alfred says:

    Vladimir Putin’s Russia

    That phrase tells you all you need to know about the writer.

    “Vladimir Putin’s Russia” is certainly no longer “Boris Abramovich Berezovski’s Russia” 🙂

    • Agree: El Dato
    • Replies: @anonymous
  8. Washington might wish to avoid direct confrontation with Beijing. But history shows nations can be drawn incrementally into wars: ultimately finding themselves in the very war they were seeking to avoid. The crux of the problem is that America and China have competing rivalries that they must protect. Historically, it is the clash of interests that has always led to war. And both run the risk of destroying those interests; because war between the US and China will be a world war.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  9. “The crux of the problem is that America and China have competing rivalries that they must protect.”

    You make it sound like “America” has some legitimate interest in preventing peace on the Korean peninsula, occupying Japan and South Korea, surrounding China with military bases, trying to destabilize Hong Kong, arming Taiwan, criticizing China for its activities in the South China sea while illegally occupying Syria and seizing Syrian oilfields, etc. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but “America” is nothing but a lawless, reckless, criminal enterprise.

  10. Anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:

    Hong Kong is not even 1% of China, so I don’t know what they are expecting, that they can become a territory of the US or something? Also, they were a British overseas territory, not an American one so I don’t know why they are waving US flags and basically asking to be part of the US. Shouldn’t they be asking to become a British overseas territory again as it was the British who founded Hong Kong not the Americans.

    These Hong Kong protests/riots seem totally irrational, they don’t seem to have a very good understanding of the history they claim to be representing. They seem to be under the impression that Hong Kong was part of the US.

    • Replies: @Realist
  11. Realist says:
    @Huskynut

    If China (or Russia, Iran, Venezuela etc) supported, say, the Poor Boys (or Black Lives Matter) in the same manner and to the same extent as the US is supporting the Hong Kong protesters, US political heads would explode in anger.

    True, but would be good to see.

  12. Realist says:
    @Harold Smith

    You make it sound like “America” has some legitimate interest in preventing peace on the Korean peninsula, occupying Japan and South Korea, surrounding China with military bases, trying to destabilize Hong Kong, arming Taiwan, criticizing China for its activities in the South China sea while illegally occupying Syria and seizing Syrian oilfields, etc. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but “America” is nothing but a lawless, reckless, criminal enterprise.

    Excellent points as usual.

  13. Arioch says:

    > ….direct rule by Beijing …. in 2047

    > Beijing wanted no reenactment of Tiananmen Square….
    > In Hong Kong, the police have not used lethal force….

    > violent people who are battling Chinese police

    FFS, please, spin whatever makes you feel well, but can you at least make your mind upon WHAT are you spinning?

    It is 2047 already or not yet? Does Beijing “rule directly” over HK in 2019 or not yet?

    HK police is not Chinese police, in the sense of the article.
    HK police restraint is not Beijing’s fear of reenactment, it is HK’s fears or decisions or whatever, but not Beijing’s ones. Not yet.

    ….all those siren calls “coward Putin lost Poland, coward Putin lost Ukraine”, now “sly fat cat”( (c) Limonov ) Xi looses Hon Kong. Like there is that huge a lot to be lost and nothing to be gained.

    > the landslide victory of the protesters

    > Sunday, black-clad masked protesters were back in the streets, waving American flags, erecting barricades, issuing new demands

    So, Xi now has a bullet-proof and pictorial demonstration that Appeasement does not work with HK/USA dictators. And not in some remote Africa or Russia with those weird foreigners, but right on your doors with people much like you, dear Chinese mundane people. Open your eyes wide and see what can happen to YOUR OWN HOUSE in few months if you try Appeasement with people like those.

    What did Xi loose? I think he gained. Like Putin in Ukraine.

    > China is staying his hand in Hong Kong only so the world and the West cannot see the true face of the ideology

    Really? China does not stay her hand in “Uighur concentration camps” but does in HK? Why???

    Alternatively, is it, just maybe, because ROI of hypothetical Chinese intervention into HK are negative for China?

    > ….direct rule by Beijing …. in 2047

    And what would Beijing have in HK in 2047? A proud at least and snobbishly ignorant perhaps city, hating everything “backwardly Chinese” and competing with China’s cities, demanding concessions and privileges why crying victim and being “ripped of their European destiny” or how do they call it there? Does Xi or China really need it? Why ???

    Won’t HK better be a “sh**hole country” by 2047, a scorched earth, disenfranchised of all markets, ruined economically and culturally, living on few shards of past property that evaded destruction by 40 years of non-stop protesting? And ready to lick any hand and even any boot that will drop them bread crumbles? Some shining prize UK and USA will try to snatch – or a garbage they would be happy to toss aside?

    Which of two different HK-2047 variants would better fit China in 1947? Successful or depressive? Vibrant or depopulated? Influential or god-forgotten? Which???

    Right now HKians are preparing the best possible outcome for Beijing, and they doing it by their own hands. Beijing does not to invest any efforts into it, HKians are suiciding their city. Why stop them? Why interfere? Why jump over one’s head to feed the hostile rival, which finally wants to remove himself from the equation?

    > Beijing was stunned by the landslide victory of the protesters.

    No, Beijing was not.
    Though Beijing will never accept it officially and publicly – because this time indeed it does not need for HKians and bleeding-heart Chinese to “see the true face” of politics.

    But behind the politically correct face masks and disguised voice intonations – Beijin was relieved and cheered that protesting HKians got “head-spinned with successes” and doubled down on their race towards the cliff.

    Towards 2047 Hon Kong should spent off all his love to UK masters, live through their newfound romance with USA and finally starting to crave for literally any new master with the only demand to be fed. And then China will come.

  14. Arioch says:
    @animalogic

    > Its taken this long for the Chinese to wise up ?

    Perhaps it “took this long” for Beijing to get a vivid and undisputable evidence that Appeasement does not work with USA and Americans willful puppets.

    And no, evidence not for you or me, but for those faithful believers in Shining Beacon among Chinese themselves. They should had had their personal “face to the wall” moment, and inflicted upon them by their own kin.

    And, for other Chinese people, it should be the evidence that believers. who can not wake up even seeing Hon Kong televised, would never wake and should be just written off as incurable.

    Simply saying, at the expense of HKians he gets more of Chinese population to side with him on those decisions, that can drive a wedge.

  15. This is akin to China claiming support for the Antifa thugs here and threatening sanction against the US if our police try to arrest anyone when violence breaks out.

    Wait, they have no such fear. Our police don’t do a thing against Antifa – cue Portland. I guess that’s why we wish the same fate on Hong Kong.

    Violent protests = Democracy

    It’s who we are. The difference is, the violent protesters here are the anti-Trumpers, the violent protesters in HK are the Trump supporters. Go figure.

    America needs to keep its nose out of everyone else’s business. But if this vote from Congress hastens the decoupling of US and China, I say more power to it. While we’re at it, can we cancel all visas and green cards to Chinese nationals (incl. HK & Taiwan) and send them all packing?

  16. @Godfree Roberts

    Mr. Buchanan remains a rabid anti-communist who, at least when it comes to China, is blinded by ideology.

    For a more in depth and more balanced perspective, I highly recommend RT America, specifically Rick Sanchez’s show. His excellent reporter, Michelle Greenstein, has spent considerable time on the ground in Hong Kong, covering the riots (they are far more than mere protests) in great detail. She recently did a half hour special on the situation.

    If you believe her reporting (I do) it is the police who have shown tremendous restraint in the face of crazed rioters, funded, fed, and supplied by Western NGOs, with the CIA playing a prominent role. Hong Kong’s economy has ground to a halt and tourism, a big part of their economy, has evaporated. If it was a US city facing such riots, the military, or at least the National Guard, would have been called in months ago.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  17. Giuseppe says:

    I must express my surprise with the other commenters that a renowned non-interventionist whom I admire and respect could write this. Tiananmen, the Uighur unrest and Hong Kong are not entirely organic uprisings, just as the Maidan or the protests in Venezuela and Bolivia are not. The CIA has worked Hong Kong behind the scenes, and the most violent offenders, like the thugs who doused the elderly man in white gas and then struck a match, are CIA assets brought in to foment chaos and keep the revolutionary flames burning. So when viewed from the standpoint of the nations of the world, it’s getting to be more and more difficult for the USA to continue to brand itself as the beacon of freedom and justice in the world on the one hand when on the other hand its own clandestine services plot, assassinate and torture their way to world control, including fomenting unrest in China. Why should we as a nation, given the lofty ideals we say we hold to, support yet another phony violent political movement engendered and nourished by our own rogue covert agencies, paid for with their dirty drug money? Why exactly did you write this?

    • Replies: @HorriblyDepressed
  18. Whatever. Really no different from the UK working to involve America in their war.

    • Replies: @HorriblyDepressed
  19. “To be an enemy of the United States is perilous, but to be a friend – now that is fatal.”
    – Henry Kissinger

  20. @Joe Stalin

    Agreed, but it is just as reprehensible.

  21. Haha says:

    Sadly, Pat Buchanan seems to be losing it. In the past, his was a reasoned voice of the traditional and thoughtful conservative. In this article he comes out as a not-too-smart propaganda bullhorn of the sort that abounded in the sixties over outlets such as Radio Free Europe and Voice of America.

    Sorry to have to remind you Pat but the world HAS changed, you know. There ain’t no more evil commies running around. Sorry but “A ruler committing the atrocities Xi is committing today in the concentration camps in the Uighur regions” falls flat, very flat, and sounds propagandist in a very silly and amateurish way. There ain’ no “concentration camps” in the Uighur region and you ought to know that. There ARE Islamic people there however, some of whom are rather fascinated with the philosophy of Al Qaida and the like. Perhaps Mr. Xi should let them have their way?

    The real problem is not that the Chinese are ruled by tyrannical commie rats; the real issue of our times is that the Chinese are proving to be very, very astute world traders and manufacturers, outselling America and others in industry after industry and market after market. The remedy for America is to fix its own industry and competitiveness, examine closely the dogma of “free trade” that caused it to lose its industry to competition, and to rein-in its corrupt corporations. Hurling insults and provocations at China and others, handing out cookies and cash (and equipment for rioting) in Ukraine and Hong Kong, and writing propaganda pieces (or rah-rah pieces for that matter) ain’t gonna fix nothing.

  22. Realist says:
    @Anonymous

    These Hong Kong protests/riots seem totally irrational, they don’t seem to have a very good understanding of the history they claim to be representing. They seem to be under the impression that Hong Kong was part of the US.

    That is because the protests are a wholly owned, bought and paid for US propaganda ploy.

  23. @Giuseppe

    I actually agree that this is probably not an “organic” uprising – or at least not entirely. When China sanctions the National Endowment for Democracy, they correctly identify the culprits.

    However, most Americans don’t accept that proposition. They still think that we are “the good guys”. Whatever his opinions of the true source of this uprising, Mr. Buchanan is trying to convince a large segment of the American population – large enough to actually affect our foreign policy. This requires that he accept the Hong Kong protests at face value.

    His point is that, even if you accept these premises, our policy makes no sense. China will not back down. China cannot back down. The United States will not take any measures that risk military conflict. The United States cannot risk military conflict with China (or her ally, Russia). Therefore, the Hong Kong protesters are doomed if they continue to escalate the conflict. This is absolutely true, and it is a great argument to make if you are trying convince the American people (and through them, the American government) to back off.

    Again, I agree with your point. If the American government is sincere in their aggressive support of the Hong Kong protests, then they are stupid. If they are not stupid, then they are playing a crooked game with Hong Kong lives.

    I don’t think they are stupid. I think they are evil.

    • Agree: follyofwar, Giuseppe
    • Replies: @Giuseppe
    , @Kratoklastes
  24. anonymous[128] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfred

    Yes, Mr. Buchanan does this consistently. It’s the complement to his pronoun propaganda – “we, us, our” — conflating the American people with their rulers in Washington.

  25. @Harold Smith

    What do you expect from JUSA? We are just a bigger, richer version of Israel, essentially a vassal state, same worldview, same end goal, same tactics. Deep state runs the country and deep state is entirely under the thumb of Mossad. Trump is being squeezed on all fronts by deep state to ensure he stays a good puppet.

    JUSA will run the world as it sees fit, with as much unscrupulousness and ruthlessness as called for — the end justifies the means, it’s how (((they))) operate, for five thousand years, maybe longer.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  26. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Wow. The real Pat the apologist shines through. Partially brainwashed, partially senile.

    This is a perfect opportunity for China to let Hong Kong slowly self-destruct while all the capital makes its way back to the mainland

  27. Giuseppe says:
    @HorriblyDepressed

    I actually agree that this is probably not an “organic” uprising – or at least not entirely. When China sanctions the National Endowment for Democracy, they correctly identify the culprits.

    However, most Americans don’t accept that proposition.

    We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.

  28. ‘Murka, as usual, misleads the rioters;
    Shows them to a verdant plot where it’s quieter.

  29. El Dato says:

    If “students” take over university buildings and take up defensive positions and start throwing firebombs (possibly with catapults) and shooting arrows, I my book, it’s all over. What are they trying to achieve (wreck their own city?) Who do they think they are?

    REMOVE RABBLE FROM PREMISES.

    I mean, do they actually take all the “revolutionary student movements” seriously? Against a communist government? Sounds like scripted theatrics.

    Then there is clearly propaganda at work:

    Indonesia journalist, who was shot by the Hong Kong police and lost sight permanently on her right eye, decided to sue the Police

    In France, if that happens, the government accommodates the “students” because France is composed of emasculated powdered wig wearers pretending to have an ear for the commie in the youth. That’s bad policy.

    Something from the shop the John Kerry tells us to avoid. even if you are dubious about the content, it’s good to check out. The sanction bills are ridiculous, something that might have appeared just before WWI:

    Hong Kong unmasked: The real reasons & instigators behind anti-Beijing riots

    “They are demanding sanctions on their own city”.

    REMOVE RABBLE.

    Meanwhile:

    ‘5G now America-free’: China’s Huawei assembles latest phones without US parts

    • Replies: @Anon
  30. Some have known freedom.
    But now a cog in the State–
    Slave ship from Eden.

  31. @mijj

    This is either incredibly naïve or an outright lie. Some statements are lies, like the fairy tale about Uighur oppression, the only excuse being that the liars often end up believing their own lies and are blinded by them.

    The reality is, these “protests” are the response of the population to the fact that HK is losing badly the competition with Shanghai and other major Chinese cities. The “protests” have about as much chance of succeeding as protests against gravity or laws of physics.

    Of course, Xi is not likely to give HK greater autonomy than it already has. What’s more, Xi is likely experiencing schadenfreude watching HK committing economic suicide: the tourism is already down by ~50%, corporations are running away from HK madhouse to China, port activities also moved to safer havens in China proper, etc.

    The US chose to back the wrong horse, again. The US elites are livid that the Empire cannot dictate its terms to China, so in their impotence they are trying to annoy Chinese government instead. They are forgetting that mild annoyance of China will end up causing major headaches for the Empire. The same stupid policy has already forced Russia and China into a de-facto alliance, which is quite unnatural and would have been impossible otherwise. The US elites behave like a deranged gambler, who keeps losing good money after the bad. If that means being “on the right side”, I am the Emperor of the East.

  32. peterAUS says:

    Are we telling the protesters of Hong Kong, “We’ve got your back!” when we really don’t?

    No.
    The regime in Washington is.

    The (coming) dead will simply be used for the regime’s internal, and external, politicking.
    Like Kurds, for example.

  33. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @El Dato

    Given how violently the masked protesters attacked the police and any opposition dissident or anyone looking at them the wrong way, it was a very good job done by the HK law enforcement to minimize the numbers of injuries.

    By comparison, the protesters in France have suffered a great deal.

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20190129/france-in-numbers-police-violence-during-yellow-vest-protests

    Here’s a look at the numbers.

    1,700 people

    According to government figures, 1,700 people have been injured and 1,000 policemen or gendarmes have been hurt in the 11 weeks of conflict.

    Out of those injured, 100 have been seriously hurt and 11 people have now died. Most of those casualties resulted from road accidents at blockades in the early days of the protest. The government stress that no protester has dies as a result of police action.

    One protester died of a heart attack during Saturday’s demo in Paris that turned violent.

    Out of those injured, 15 people are thought to have sustained serious eye injuries, including a police officer who lost an eye.

    One of the many who have lost the use of an eye include one of the leaders of the yellow vests, Jérôme Rodrigues, who was badly wounded in his right eye at the weekend.

  34. anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:

    China should just give Hong Kong its independence and cut off everything it supplies them with. If the US loves the citizens of Hong Kong so much, let them pay for them. In reality, if you gave every Chinee in Hong Kong the choice to stay in HK or move to the US, there would be a mass influx of 6 million or so landing on US shores.

  35. Anon[681] • Disclaimer says:

    Hong Kongers are some of the rudest, nastiest people on earth, same with their Cantonese kins in China, who are now stirring up shite in Guangzhou, or their other kins in Chinatowns all over the US. The Cantonese are the worst tribe among all Chinese, nasty POS all. Really don’t care if the whole island sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

    But then again, it isn’t like the mainland Chinese are any better. Don’t mind if they go too. Or just all GTFO of the US. Take the Jews, blacks, homos and Indians with them. These people all deserve one another.

    • Troll: d dan
  36. ‘… Some of us yet recall how the Voice of America broadcast to the Hungarian rebels of 1956 that if they rose up and threw the Russians out, we would be at their side. The Hungarians rose up. We did nothing. And one of the great bloodbaths of the Cold War ensued…’

    We did the same to the people of Egypt as well.

  37. @Harold Smith

    It wasn’t supposed to work out this way when “America” quite happily demolished the bulk of its manufacturing base and moved a great deal of it to China. The Chinese were supposed to be immensely grateful to be the low-wage worker drones for the AngloZionist Empire’s consumer needs. They were to be absorbed into the great Globalist one-world government, submitting to their role and toeing the line. Where do they get off thinking they have a right to self-determination, national sovereignty and great-nation status?

  38. US is slowly becoming the Emperor of North pole. (You probably did not see the movie,)
    Xi is not punishing the US fleet. It is not a problem for US.
    Xi is punishing the HK. US fleet did bring in good money for HK, and now even that money is gone.

  39. @Harold Smith

    It is just business as usual for the Empire Inc. and El Trumpo is no different from other presidents.

    The CIA was doing worse things in Tibet for decades till Pat Buchanan’s former boss Nixon went to China.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  40. Rebel0007 says:

    The entire situation is a total disaster. China insists on One China policy, but Hong Kong was under British colonialism for over 70 years and then the Brits just hand Hong Kong over to China. Leave it to the Brits. Hand Palestine over to the Zionists, Hong Kong over to China. No skin off of their Red Coats.

    As far as America preaching to other nations about human rights abuses goes, who could ever take them seriously?! The 9/11 attack cover ups and evident collusion were a “subtle hint” that this country is run by a cult of Satanic Hedonists that are incapable of thinking five minutes ahead, let alone five years ahead!

    I’ve woken up from more than my fair share of hang overs in the past, but I never woke up and said, “holy $#!+ ! I imploded the world trade towers, bombed the Pentagon, blamed it on unwitting Muslims, created an international holocaust against Muslims, killing 4 million and 8,000 service members, and destroyed 7 countries in the Middle East, our own country, the constitution, liberty, several countries in Latin America, killed 400,000 people in an opioid epidemic, have 500,000 missing persons, the highest prison population on Earth, destroyed the economy, looted $21 trillion from the Pentagon, and had high ranking members of the government involved in a pedophile sex slave black mail ring! – Well, I guess that we should impeach Trump! ”

    Why Trump is focussing on Iran and not those things is equally baffling!

  41. The Scalpel says: • Website

    “I’ve woken up from more than my fair share of hang overs in the past, but I never woke up and said, “holy $#!+ ! I imploded the world trade towers, bombed the Pentagon, blamed it on unwitting Muslims, created an international holocaust against Muslims, killing 4 million and 8,000 service members, and destroyed 7 countries in the Middle East, our own country, the constitution, liberty, several countries in Latin America, killed 400,000 people in an opioid epidemic, have 500,000 missing persons, the highest prison population on Earth, destroyed the economy, looted $21 trillion from the Pentagon, and had high ranking members of the government involved in a pedophile sex slave black mail ring! – Well, I guess that we should impeach Trump! ”

    LOVE IT

  42. Jason Liu says:

    What confuses me is that HK’s most fervent American supporters all seem to be middle-aged conservatives. You don’t realize you’re supporting liberal kids, just from a different country? Or is the hypocrisy intentional?

  43. Ace1 says:

    Since the mainland will not let our Navy have liberty at Hong Kong, move it to Taiwan.

    • Replies: @d dan
  44. @Jason Liu

    Most supporters of the recent Hong Kong insurrection seem to be boomer conservatives who are excited to be reliving their memories of previous colour revolutions that occurred during their youth. The hypocrisy is intentional as China being destabilised is good for the US and it just might kick off some similar events in the more far-flung provinces of China.

    Just imagine if the Chinese Communist party passed a bill supporting Antifa in the USA, and all of the Antifa thugs were waving China flags and holding up pictures of Xi while they burned down Portland.

  45. @HorriblyDepressed

    Whatever his opinions of the true source of this uprising, Mr. Buchanan is trying to convince a large segment of the American population – large enough to actually affect our foreign policy. This requires that he accept the Hong Kong protests at face value.

    The second sentence is a non-sequitur (regardless of whether or not the first sentence is a sensible reading of his objectives, which it’s not).

    As to the first sentence: Buchanan understands that if you want “to actually affect [US] foreign policy“, the American population is completely and utterly irrelevant.

    This isn’t a US-only phenomenon: no government on the planet gives a fuck what its citizenry thinks about foreign policy (and cares little what they think of domestic policy unless it’s 3 weeks before an election).

    So he’s not trying to ‘convince’ any segment of the US populace; he’s just adding to the maelstrom of bullshit. (He’s got to think of something to write every few days, and he’s not as smart as Jim Goad or as provocative as David Cole).

    Instead, his core argument reads like Bill Kristol wrote it: it’s actually that self-serving (the argument also seems half-witted and tin-eared, but to think that is to miss the point: he’s done as he was told like a reliable shill does).

    .

    If Buchanan wasn’t just a typical Establishment shill, he[1] would spend fifteen minutes to try and get some sensible estimate of the facts, and would use those facts to frame his argument.

    Now I should stipulate: the vast mass of Americans are the same as the vast mass of people generally – i.e., they are poorly equipped to discern shit from clay.

    So it might seem odd for me to argue that facts are a better starting point that some set of premises that Buchanan has cut’n’pasted from the US State Dept’s Twitter timeline.

    If your audience has the same cognitive shortcomings as viewers of the average ab-roller infomercial, surely the best thing to do is just bullshit[2] your head off?

    That argument has intuitive appeal, and it’s certainly the go-to mechanism for the political, bureaucratic, media and ecclesiastic classes. #OrangeManBad’s twitter account is a case in point.

    However that intuition is wrong when when the audience can be presented with counter-arguments at low cost. That’s what those aforementioned classes (and the ‘big end’ media) have yet to fully grok.

    In an open (two sided) argument, being able to argue a case based on facts (especially facts that can be obtained at low cost) is a superior strategy to arguing the same case based on bullshit. It should be the preferred strategy if it’s available. (Back to #OrangeManBad’s twitnonsense: even if Bibi and Jared think it’s full of sick burn, the non-bullshit reactions ripple out and affect the marginal non-idiot.. the bullshit reactions energise the existing proselytes on both sides and are otherwise a wash).

    If you start from bullshit premises, you expose yourself to counter-bullshit arguments and bullshit counter-arguments. If you eliminate the bullshit, you are not vulnerable to counter-arguments that expose bullshit, and you can easily refute[3] counter-arguments that rely on bullshit.

    So eventually your opponents are forced to engage on the facts: in an ideal word whoever is shown to be wrong will change their mind – in practice whoever is shown to be wrong becomes a dead-ender for the phenomenon under discussion (that’s been true for every positive social change in human history).

    If both sides are doing the ‘bullshit’ strategy, everything just winds up being noise – polemic, hyperbole, and rhetoric (in the pejorative sense of ‘rhetoric’, which is the only remaining sense in which the word is used). Everything becomes indistinguishable from a US talk show – and nobody wants that.

    The current ‘Trump Impeachment’ imbroglio is a stark case in point: nobody gives a fuck about the facts, and everybody on all sides is trying to memelord their way to victory.

    I enjoy a good /b/ shitpostfest more than most, but I don’t pretend that it will move the chains.

    [1] Since Buchanan’s a typical establishment shill, he would probably get an unpaid intern to do the Google-machine stuff. And the copypasta.

    [2] ‘Bullshit’ (and bullshitting) is qualitatively different from lies (lying). Harry Frankfurt’s “On Bullshit” is the go-to source.

    [3] Refute in the actual meaning of the word, i.e., to prove an argument wrong – as opposed to the journalistic usage (where ‘X refutes the claim‘ almost always means nothing more than ‘X asserts that the claim is untrue‘).

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  46. Amon says:

    Are we telling the protesters of Hong Kong, “We’ve got your back!” when we really don’t?

    What do you mean by we?

    I have zero intention of supporting violent terrorists of any nationality or race.

  47. Amon says:
    @Jason Liu

    I’ve noticed it, it was one of the fist things I noticed about it.

    By wouldn’t you know it, the moment I pointed out that the supporters of the HK rioters are siding with Soros of all people, I got downvoted and told to get out because it is okay to do so when it is about exporting “democracy” and fighting communism.

  48. peterAUS says:
    @Kratoklastes

    ….no government on the planet gives a fuck what its citizenry thinks about foreign policy (and cares little what they think of domestic policy unless it’s 3 weeks before an election)…..

    Yep.
    It’s, perhaps, even worse:
    Citizenry does not think, actually. Or, better, the majority of it doesn’t. The minority doesn’t matter in that game.

    Here we are.

  49. d dan says:

    1. I consider this author a very slow witted guy, but even he seems to realize that the so called HK “Human Rights, blah” act is a piece of shit: it is at best an empty gesture, at worse creating moral hazard or even risk of nuclear war. And yet this shit can be passed with unanimous vote in the Congress. So the question is: are every single clowns in Congress even more retarded than this author?

    I often heard some commenters praising individual congress persons (e.g. Tulsi Gabbard or whoever) as anti-war or as persons of reason, or some libertarians like Rand Paul as courageous, blah, blah. So where are all these persons of so-called “courage and wisdom” gone when it comes to issue on China?

    2. As if this is not stupid enough, I heard the Congress is enthusiastically working on an iteration of the next useless project, the Xinjiang “blah” act. And that is on top of the Taiwan “Travel blah” act they passed (again with close to unanimous vote) last year.

    3. Sounds like we do have a bunch of psychopaths who think that it is simply fun to poke the seemingly harmless panda, while working full-steam ahead to derail Trump’s desire to have a trade deal.

    Can’t get more idiotic than that.

  50. Hong Cong has long been a favorite liberty city for US sailors. In the process a lot of US dollars have been spent there, so you can bet the various merchants will feel the effect and try to dampen the protests.

  51. @Jason Liu

    For most people in society (>90% of population), when personal problems present itself that are not easily fixed, a common reaction is to to find a distraction (sports, politics, beer etc..).

    Other peoples/countries problems are always easier to fix than your own problems and that should be self explanatory. Whether you are conservative, liberal, young, old etc..makes no difference.

    The media plays a huge role in directing peoples distraction. Currently its China but at a blink of an eye, it can be Syria, North Korea or the Kardashians. The fervent support is by extension suppressed racism; this is PC at its best. It’s really foolish for people to not recognize and accept their own racism. Racism is in everybody. Racism is NORMAL Sun Tzu sums it up nicely:

    “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

  52. Smith says:

    I’m kinda surprised that the kids in HK fought hard as they did, against such a brutal police force like the chinks, while we cry crocodile tears about the Yellow Vest (truth: Yellow Vests suffer more or less teargas attacks than HK students did, yet we are supposed to demonize the HK protesters but cry tears for Yellow Vests, because of politics!).

    Anyway, China has successfully pissed off the entire new generation of HK, and even the cantonese in general. This spells trouble for them for years to come.

    If China has balls though, they should sanction America right off the bats so that Trump can finally have no more choice but to stick to domestic industry and consumption (i.e. what his base wants). But alas, China has no balls, they say a barking dog is a no-biting dog, and that’s China.

  53. Yee says:

    AnonFromTN,

    “the tourism is already down by ~50%, corporations are running away from HK madhouse to China, port activities also moved to safer havens in China proper, etc.”

    I think you missed the most important point. HongKong is an international financial center, after NewYork, Tokyo and Paris.

    Corporations might leave for mainland China, but money in the stock market would probably leave for NewYork. Shanghai stock market isn’t open to international trading, so it’s not a competitor of HongKong in finance, NewYork is.

    HKers celebrated(!) the US passing a law to enable the US government to sanction them, I think they’d probably get their wish when the coming global financial crash hits… Wallstreet would need all the cash in the world to go to NewYork in a crash.

  54. @Yee

    Thanks for pointing out at least one winning aspect of the US game! That might explain the US policy, which otherwise appears totally suicidal.

  55. @Tired of Not Winning

    “Trump is being squeezed on all fronts by deep state to ensure he stays a good puppet.”

    Seriously? Why didn’t “(((they)))” squeeze Obama into walking away from the JCPOA agreement with Iran, withdrawing from the INF treaty, starving Venezuela into submission, relentlessly provoking China, etc.?

    Trump isn’t being squeezed into anything; he’s (((their))) knowing, willing, calculating, extremely enthusiastic agent.

  56. @Amerimutt Golems

    “It is just business as usual for the Empire Inc. and El Trumpo is no different from other presidents.”

    That’s not quite correct, IMO. The evil empire must escalate its war on the world or fold. Since continual escalation in the face of an increasingly powerful Russia and China (who will not surrender) is increasingly risky, U.S. presidents – as time goes on – must be willing to do more evil and take more risks. Trump MUST be worse than his predecessors or the evil empire’s finished. I predict that the last “president” will be the most evil one (or equivalently, the most evil one will be the last one). Trump may be that person.

  57. Anon[245] • Disclaimer says:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/liamstone_19/status/1200895901998272513

    This just happened a few days ago.

    One young guy was assaulted by one HongKong protester for removing road barriers protesters set up. The protester use a iron stick hit this guy’s head. This could kill him. HongKong is dead.

    Warning .. if you don’t want to watch the video, don’t click on the twitter page’s link.

    • Replies: @Smith
  58. @Yee

    The student thugs you see on TV throwing molotov cocktails and burning citizens alive are not University students. They are thugs or sponsored triad youth. The academia in HK are supporting the violent protestors because they realize it is now or never to push Beijing into granting them autonomy. The brains in HK are hoping for status similar to the Aland Islands (Finland/Sweden). It is true Shanghai is not ready to compete with Hong Kong as an international banking center. However, in a few years time, that will most likely change. Anyway, this is one reason why many HK citizens who DO NOT support the violence are willing to turn a blind eye to the violence. To them it is now or never as far as keeping Hong Kong relevant. HK is no Taiwan. Taiwan is an industrial force whereas HK is only unique in 2 areas; tourism and banking.

  59. d dan says:
    @Ace1

    “Since the mainland will not let our Navy have liberty at Hong Kong, move it to Taiwan.”

    Haha, just saw this ignorant and arrogant comment. Please google “The day that a U.S. Navy vessel arrives in Kaohsiung,…” to see what is next part.

  60. Smith says:
    @Anon

    More crimes made by agent provocateurs sent by Beijing I see, very popular tactics that the French police used against the Yellow Vest.

    A bit too little too late though, everyone knows the jig is up when the fucking UN comes out against the HK students.

    • Replies: @Anon
  61. Rebel0007 says:

    Pat,
    I realize that this happens to be off topic to China and Hong Kong, but there are no articles in Unz today addressing the evident disintegration of NATO. Germany is now also considering purchasing weapons systems from Russia, reported by Sputnik. Additionally, due to Trump’s incompetent advisors and his man crush on Netenyahu who is also evidently having the rug pulled out from under his feet, the rest of Europe is solidly anti-American because of Trump pulling out of the JCPOA. The neo-Con execs have gone so far as claiming that the U.S. Navy seized a small wooden boat in the Gulf of Oman filled with Iranian weapons parts to be distributed to Houthis in Yemen. Of course this has not been confirmed by any credible source that there were Iranian weapons, or that the Navy even seized a small wooden boat, but they claimed that they seized it because it was not flying a country flag, which is no readon to seize a boat either. The boat incident was also reported by Sputnik yesterday.

    Things are definitely looking bleaker by the day for America, much to my disappointment.

    Since you are an expert, I thought that I would bring this to your attention. Maybe you know where the breaks on this thing are located and can tell whomever how to steer.

  62. Thekid says:

    ‘In providing moral support for protesters in Hong Kong who desire the freedoms we enjoy, America is on the right side ‘. I think Pat Buchanan should put away the crack pipe. America is never on the right side of anything. If these so-called protesters acted like this in America they would get their skulls bashed in.

  63. Anon[176] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smith

    Why don’t you watch this interview? It is quite revealing on how some of them think.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @d dan
  64. anon[138] • Disclaimer says:

    This is a conflict the United States is destined to lose. As the US provokes the Chinese, they will drop the pacifism and likewise retaliate by interfering in American politics, likely to great effect* considering the nature of the country’s horrible demographics. I think this is more of a desperation move at this point by the American Empire than a calculated policy weighing cost vs benefit. The writing is on the wall: their time is over. And when it comes, their ruling class will lose legitimacy because they are the ones who engineered the situation against advice from Pat Buchanan, Ross Perot and a host of other modern day Cassandras.

    It was their trade policies that industrialized a superior competitor while hollowing out their own country’s industry. It was their corporate greed that caused all those defense contractors to merge and outsource materials acquisitions overseas, almost guaranteeing a loss to China in any major war (almost 100% of some chemicals used in American missiles are imported from China and you can bet that supply will be cut off in a war). It was their utopian fantasies that imported 100 million foreigners who block-vote for a single party, greatly polarizing the government. It is their venture capitalist, diversity quota mentality that will one day ensure meritocratic Chinese companies dust American competitors. It is their woke culture that will one day lose global relevance.

    Side note: Does Hollywood make ANY good movies anymore? I mean, truly good, groundbreaking ones?

    China has a population of over a billion, 90%+ of the same ethnicity with a relatively high mean IQ. China also has a pretty good education system, and it gets better all the time. Polls say the Chinese approve of their government in astonishing numbers. The US, in comparison, has just 320 million people and only a little more than half are white at this point; that number falls every day. According to every metric, whites are the core productive value of the country due to numbers and relatively high intelligence. But the mean US IQ is 97 and falling while China’s continues to slowly climb. Despite decades of money dumping, the US education system has not closed racial gaps in achievement, so the prospect of those groups getting antsy and destabilizing the economic order in a Zimbabwe style farm-theft orgy will only increase with time now that the ruling class has to resort to blaming minority failures on mythical white racism. Polls also show a majority of Americans hate their government and wouldn’t volunteer to fight in a war for the country.

    In summary: The Americans have no solidarity and all hate each other. Their government is corrupt and inept. Their education system sucks and their corporations won’t be able to compete against meritocratic Chinese talent in the future. Their military can’t win a war due to economic corruption. They will also one day lose the culture war due to excessive wokeness. That has already happened to some degree as American celebrities are not as widely recognized in Asia as they once were back in the 1980s. China, in comparison, is headed in the opposite trajectory on nearly all fronts.

    *China’s Huawei is learning how to play the game. They are claiming, correctly, that bans on their products will hurt rural American areas. This will split the red state, Trump-voting, demographic further away from the blue areas. Polls show that really only Cloud People types hate the Chinese. Impressive considering all the anti-Chinese YouTube channels the CIA is secretly funding.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  65. Yee says:

    dogbumbreath,

    “To them it is now or never as far as keeping Hong Kong relevant. ”

    You’re probably right. However, it’s weird they imagine they’d accomplish that by showing Beijing how easily the US can manipulate HongKong.

    It’s more likely that HongKong become “enemy-occupied area” for Beijing and takes steps to reduce its importance…

  66. Smith says:
    @Anon

    More staged interview to literally antagonize kids.

    Nice try, it shows China is on the UN’s side.

    @anon:
    Blah, blah, blah, show us your balls and sanction the US.

    Stop barking and start biting, if you are so good. And no, chinks are pacifistic, they bully EVERY asian nations in the region, they just like to mess with the weak, they fear and cower before the strong.

    • Replies: @Showmethereal
  67. d dan says:
    @Anon

    Oh no, the fake “Vietnamese” is assigned back to work on the “HK color revolution” project again?

    I know it has been very unsuccessful and disappointing so far: no new war, no tank rolling in HK streets, too few people die, Trump still in the talk with China…

    • Replies: @Anon
  68. dfordoom says: • Website

    “This so-called bill will only make the Chinese people … further understand the sinister intentions and hegemonic nature of the United States. It will only make the Chinese people more united and make the American plot more doomed to failure.”

    This whole thing has been good in a way. The Chinese now understand that the United States is absolutely determined to destroy China, and they now understand that the US can never ever be trusted. They needed to understand this.

  69. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    He claimed he is Vietnamese. I don’t care if he is real or not.

    Australian journalist Robert Ovadia’s 2 minutes video more or less encapsulates what was going on in HK.

    This was on his Facebook.

    I never seen disinformation weaponised with such venom as my time in Hong Kong.
    We see in social media, right around the world, people’s refusal to acknowledge basic fact if it doesn’t confirm their entrenched political bias. In Hong Kong right now, this is toxic and dangerous.

    Well known Hong Kong actress, Celine Ma, protested the protesters. She had no less right to protest than they did, but because of it a solitary woman surrounded by an angry mob (championing “freedom” and “democracy”) was sprayed in the face, punched, shoved to the ground and had a glass bottle smashed over her head. This is fact and unambiguous.
    Organisations like Apple Daily, which has specific links to the “pro-democracy” protesters, deliberately edit videos out of context to alter their audience’s impression of what happened, to make it seem like she attacked protesters first

    Camera phones are everywhere. Regardless of one’s political persuasion, it is pretty easy to find out what some of the protesters did. For example, a video captures a man who was sprayed with gasoline and set on fire after he confronted a few masked protesters about vandalism. The man was sent to hospital in a critical condition with 90% burn to his body.

  70. @Smith

    Yeah there were some nimwits in power who thought Chinese are scared of tbe powerful. During the Korean War they thought to cross the Yalu River… China didnt bqck down…
    I find some things strange and would love to know where you learned history. The times Chinese lost was because they were disjointed as a nation – or in the 1800 and first half od the 20th when they fell behind technological.. But cowardice?? Where do you get that?

  71. @anon

    Mostly agree… But lets be honest about migration to the US. Prior to the 1960’s it was purposely dominated by European migration. Chinese were imported to build the railroads and “Mexicans” in the west were baked in because the US seized huge swaths of Mexico. The only reason non white migration was allowed en masse starting in the 60’s was because the Italians and Irish and German migrants mostly lost interest as Europe boomed. They needed someone to do the grunt work.

  72. @Yee

    I believe HK is ahead of Paris. Its only behind NY and London. True Shanghai is not wide open but it already is a bigger market than HK. When HK stock exchanged was rebuffed earlier this year when it tried to buy london – the comment was “Shanghai is the future of China – not Hong Kong”. London and Shanghai now have a direct stock connect.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  73. anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @Showmethereal

    Paris protests over Holocaust/Rothchilds TAXES on the poor.

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