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Can Trump Still Avoid War with Iran?
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President Donald Trump does not want war with Iran. America does not want war with Iran. Even the Senate Republicans are advising against military action in response to that attack on Saudi Arabia’s oil facilities.

“All of us (should) get together and exchange ideas, respectfully, and come to a consensus — and that should be bipartisan,” says Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Jim Risch of Idaho.

When Lindsey Graham said the White House had shown “weakness” and urged retaliatory strikes for what Secretary of State Mike Pompeo calls Iran’s “act of war,” the president backhanded his golfing buddy:

“It’s very easy to attack, but if you ask Lindsey … ask him how did going into the Middle East … work out. And how did Iraq work out?”

Still, if neither America nor Iran wants war, what has brought us to the brink?

Answer: The policy imposed by Trump, Pompeo and John Bolton after our unilateral withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.

Our course was fixed by the policy we chose to pursue.

Imposing on Iran the most severe sanctions ever by one modern nation on another, short of war, the U.S., through “maximum pressure,” sought to break the Iranian regime and bend it to America’s will.

Submit to U.S. demands, we told Tehran, or watch your economy crumble and collapse and your people rise up in revolt and overthrow your regime.

Among the 12 demands issued by Pompeo:

End all enrichment of uranium or processing of plutonium. Halt all testing of ballistic missiles. Cut off Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza. Disarm and demobilize Shiite militias in Syria and Iraq. Terminate support for the Houthi rebels resisting Saudi intervention in Yemen.

The demands Pompeo made were those that victorious nations impose upon the defeated or defenseless. Pompeo’s problem: Iran was neither.

Hezbollah is dominant in Lebanon. Along with Russia and Hezbollah, Iran and its militias enabled Bashar Assad to emerge victorious in an eight-year Syrian civil war. And the scores of thousands of Iranian-trained and -allied Shiite militia fighters in the Popular Mobilization Forces in Iraq outnumber the 5,200 U.S. troops there 20 times over.

Hence Tehran’s defiant answer to Pompeo’s 12 demands:

We will not capitulate, and if your sanctions prevent our oil from reaching our traditional buyers, we will prevent the oil of your Sunni allies from getting out of the Persian Gulf.

Hence, this summer, we saw tankers sabotaged and seized in the Gulf, insurance rates for tanker traffic surge, Iran shoot-down a $130 million U.S. Predator drone, and, a week ago, an attack on Saudi oil production facilities that cut Riyadh’s exports in half.

This has been followed by an Iranian warning that a Saudi attack on Iran means war, and a U.S. attack will be met with a counterattack. We don’t want war, the Iranians are saying, but if the alternative is to choke to death under U.S. sanctions, we will use our weapons to fight yours.

America might emerge victorious in such a war, but the cost could be calamitous, imperiling that fifth of the world’s oil that traverses the Strait of Hormuz, and causing a global recession.

Yet even if there is no U.S. or Saudi military response to Saturday’s attack, what is to prevent Iran from ordering a second strike that shuts down more Arab Gulf oil production?

Iran has shown the ability to do that, and, apparently, neither we nor the Saudis have the defenses to prevent such an attack.

A more fundamental question arises: If the United States was not attacked, why is it our duty to respond militarily to an attack on Saudi Arabia?

ORDER IT NOW

Saudi Arabia is not a member of NATO. It is not a treaty ally. The Middle East Security Alliance or “Arab NATO” chatted up a year ago to contain Iran — of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the Arab Gulf states — was stillborn. We are under no obligation to fight the Saudis’ war.

Nor is Saudi Arabia a natural American ally.

Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman runs an Islamic autocracy.

He inserted himself into first position in the line of succession to the throne of his father, who’s in failing health. He locked up his brother princes at the Riyadh Ritz Carlton to shake them down for billions of dollars.

He summoned the prime minister of Lebanon to the kingdom, where the crown prince forced him to resign in humiliation. He has ostracized Qatar from Arab Gulf councils. He has been accused of complicity in the murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul.

With his U.S.-built and bought air force, the Crown Prince has made a hell on earth of Yemen to crush the Houthis rebels who hold the capital.

The question President Trump confronts today:

How does he get his country back off the limb he climbed out on while listening to the Republican neocons and hawks he defeated in 2016, but who have had an inordinate influence over his foreign policy?

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2019 Creators.com.

 
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  1. anon[256] • Disclaimer says:

    “All of us (should) get together and exchange ideas, respectfully, and come to a consensus — and that should be bipartisan,” says Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Jim Risch of Idaho”

    That’s the freaking slippery slope . That’s where the neocon – light get you there and make you debate . But it’s they who have already reached the conclusion . All they want you and the senator from Idaho to act the roles , express sadness, blame Iran, praise American patience deliberations and express confidence in bipartisan democratic process , then declare war with a prayer and a flag.

    Then neocon heavy come and tell brain dead bribed media and evangelical to extend the war to perpetuity.

    Screw the morons . Tell them no war and never . That’s it
    Tell them to go to frontline with the donors they are indebted to .

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
  2. peterAUS says:

    Define war. Cancel that. The word lost meaning.

    Can the regime in Washington avoid “use of force” against Iran….no, it can not. It shall happen, save some miracle, sooner or later, on Trump’s watch.

    The miracle would require a change of US policy against Iran. Lifting sanctions.

    How will that “use of force” unravel, well, it’s been regurgitated in this pub dozens of times so far. Becoming boring.

    • Replies: @Herald
  3. JasonT says:

    “what is to prevent Iran from ordering a second strike that shuts down more Arab Gulf oil production?”

    There is no evidence that Iran ordered a strike on Saudi (not “Arab Gulf”) oil production. Iran denies involvement and the Houthis claim responsibility. Given the American track record of lying about almost everything, I will believe the Iranians and Houthis on this one until real evidence can be presented indicating otherwise.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Amerimutt Golems
  4. Mike Pompeo is FILTHY FUCKING COCKROACH….Perhaps something worse than a FILTHY FUCKING COCKROACH…….Perhap’s one of Pastor John Hagee’s dingle-berries?….Perhaps one of Lindsay Graham’s anal warts?

    • LOL: Nodwink
  5. @War for Blair Mountain

    Where’s the lie? 😂

    (Next time don’t hold back?)

  6. @anon

    Send Grand Nagus Shelley Adelson to the front in his wheelchair, along with Pompeo, Bolton, Kristol, Frum, the Bedbug and the various Kagans and Bushes.

    • Replies: @Herald
  7. Ypresguy says:

    Dear Sir,
    The Austrian government delivered 12 demands to Serbia after shooting of arch duke and wife.
    We all know what followed.

  8. @War for Blair Mountain

    Pompeo is actually a giant Botfly maggot. Just wait till he pupates and we see the truly disgusting insect he actually is.

  9. Blankaerd says:

    Just like you said in your book Hitler/Churchill and the unnecessary war ‘no war is unavoidable until it begins’

  10. Renoman says:

    Saudi Arabia is the slimiest Country in the World, hated by pretty well everyone, why would America defend them? Do what the citizen’s want for a change and get away from middle East wars. Nobody wants them except the Democrats and no one is listening to them these days, just don’t do it.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Druid
    , @Carroll Price
  11. Iran is the first of these little adversaries that can sink the carriers sent to police them: This almost certainly changes the neo-con calculus in Mr. Trump’s opinion. It doesn’t really matter if Iran is reponsible or not, it matters that they can make our punishment of them a costly exercise.

    The US has been butt-hurt since the revolutionaries removed its puppet and took what they called a den of spies hostage. But hey, they let the spies go. You’d think after nearly four decades the US could get over being dumped, but the US government is like a crazy ex-girlfriend stalker that just can’t let go. It doesn’t help that the propaganda machine keeps re-hashing the history since 1979, conveniently ignoring the fifty years of history before that, which whips up the blood-lust in the people as well.

    Mr. Trump’s instincts with these “rogue” nations is to bring them back into the family of nations and let commerce work out the niceties of how the are governed: In that he is totally right. The problem is that he keeps listening to people like Pompeo, Bolton, the KSA, and Israel. It is time for Trump to be Trump.

  12. KenH says:

    How does he get his country back off the limb he climbed out on while listening to the Republican neocons and hawks he defeated in 2016, but who have had an inordinate influence over his foreign policy?

    We voted for America first but are getting Israel first on steroids. Trump just sold American foreign policy to Sheldon Adelson for campaign shekels. Trump’s an insufferable philosemite anyway.

    Maximum pressure, slights and insults isn’t working and dealing with Iranian leaders isn’t like dealing with decadent and corrupt NYC real estate magnates. The Iranian leadership are serious men who aren’t easily cowed and intimidated Twitter blustering.

    • Replies: @Avery
  13. anon[260] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Hopefully, Trump knows about this:

    Millennium Challenge 2002 (MC02) was a major war game exercise conducted by the United States Armed Forces in mid-2002. The exercise, which ran from July 24 to August 15 and cost $250 million…many lines of evidence pointing at Iran as the red side.[1][2]…Thus warned of Blue’s approach, Red used a fleet of small boats to determine the position of Blue’s fleet by the second day of the exercise. In a preemptive strike, Red launched a massive salvo of cruise missiles that overwhelmed the Blue forces’ electronic sensors and destroyed sixteen warships. This included one aircraft carrier

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

    And this:

    I’ve just read one of the most shocking stories in years. It comes from the US Naval Institute, not exactly an alarmist or anti-Navy source. And what it says is that the US carrier group is scrap metal.

    THE WAR NERD: THIS IS HOW THE CARRIERS WILL DIE (UPDATED VERSION)
    By Gary Brecher | APRIL 1, 2009
    http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/all/1/

    I know he knows about Iran’s fake carrier it has built on a barge platform for targeting practice.

    …the US Defense lobby is so easily scared by this Trojan Carrier: They know that aircraft carriers are the most inviting and helpless naval targets since those Spanish galleons crammed with Peruvian gold made their last voyage.

    The War Nerd: Iran is building a “fake” aircraft carrier? How can you tell?
    https://pando.com/2014/05/26/the-war-nerd-iran-is-building-a-fake-aircraft-carrier-how-can-you-tell/

    I love this line: This is what logicians call the “Ad Tehranem” argument, and it generally works, because everybody who’s anybody in US foreign policy is phobic on Iran. And by “everybody” I mean two countries: Saudi Arabia and Israel. 🙂

    • Agree: The Alarmist
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Jim Christian
  14. Paul says:

    Donald Trump painted himself into a corner when he demagogued and broke the nuclear deal with Iran. To mix metaphors, now the chickens have come home to roost. But you can’t tell him anything. He may know something about the real estate business (Atlantic City casinos excluded), but he knows little about foreign affairs. However, he pretends to be an instant expert on everything.

  15. Altai says:

    I just can’t see it happening. Remember, despite over 60 years of dispute since the end of the Korean war, the US has never attacked the DPRK because it could capably fight back, to the point that they now have nukes and are building ICBMs. If we took Washington’s language at face value they should have long since attacked them.

    Wars of aggression over thousands of miles just don’t take place against adversaries who can defend themselves and whose conflict will target a country with powerful allies. Nobody in Washington would have started the Vietnam war if they realised their war aims couldn’t be achieved militarily. This is doubly so with Iran where the US isn’t even pursuing it’s own military or national interests but Israel’s. Everyone knows it would just be a disaster that would cement the Sino-Russia alliance to oust the US from prominence and ruin the careers of everyone associated with it and Trump knows it would define his presidency.

    In those cases Washington prefers endless sanctions that it has now gotten into the habit of periodically revoking so it has something to put under sanction again when they get into dispute.

    • Replies: @Rich
  16. Realist says:

    Can Trump Still Avoid War with Iran?

    Yes, if he can borrow a real man’s balls.

    • Replies: @Herald
  17. Avery says:
    @KenH

    { The Iranian leadership are serious men who aren’t easily cowed and intimidated …}

    Well said.

    Ayatollah Khamenei was a frontline fighter in the brutal Iran-Iraq war.
    The entire country – including teenage volunteers – fought an uneven 8 year war with technologically superior forces of Iraq. Iraq even used chemical weapons against Iranians. US & UK helped Iraq with satellite intelligence, and various other dirty tricks. Iranians fought on and on and on…… until Iraqi troops were ejected from Iranian lands they had grabbed.

    Iranian people know they are descendants of 1,000s years old civilization. They are conscious of and proud of their nation&nationalism. Nothing will force the Iranians to so-called “bend” to the will of some foreign power.

    • Agree: follyofwar, Incitatus
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  18. Neither sides want war. Both sides are incrementally moving closer towards it while pursuing their own national interests. For Tehran sanctions are crippling, and could pose an existential threat. The question of survival might not be so imminent for the US. But conflict in the Persian Gulf has the potential to escalate; Russia and China also have vital interests in the region: when vital interests clash the result is war. War between America and a Sino-Russian alliance will be world war. That is the pattern of history, the pattern of history that is leading us towards the brink.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  19. TGD says:

    Surprised that Pat and the commenters haven’t mentioned Israel. Rest assured that if the US launches a big strike on Iran, Iran’s proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza will hit Israeli cities with a big barrage of rockets. The question is how will Israel retaliate?

    • Replies: @anon
  20. Really, Pat is right. It was inevitable that the situation with Iran would reach this point when Trump, like a child having a temper tantrum, tore up the hard won JCPOA. This agreement was signed by all 5 permanent members of the UN Security Council (China, France, Russia, the UK & the US) plus Germany, making it the P5+1. All of the other signatories wanted to keep the agreement, and the UN inspectors consistently reported that Iran was in compliance with its terms. Did Trump even contact any of them beforehand? Doubtful. And, even if he did, he wasn’t about to pay attention.

    Then pompass Pompeo (he must have approved it with Trump) declared that the US was going to stop all Iranian exports of oil, forcing beyond all doubt that Iran was not about to comply with any new US diktats. The monstrous actions of Trump/Pompeo/Bolton demonstrated, yet again, that the US is the world’s worst pariah nation, and the main reason why the world is constantly at war. Ironically, if Trump’s Admin had negotiated the Iran deal instead of Obama’s, he would have hailed it as his crowning achievement in foreign policy.

    Children like cockatoo Trump should not be allowed anywhere near WMD’s. Maybe Pat is right that Trump, at bottom, does not want war. But even war criminals Bush and Obama were not stupid enough to take on the ancient civilization of Persia. Through his rank ignorance, Trump has led this country right up to the abyss, all because he foolishly listened to the Rabid Dog Neocons, as well as his evil mentor Netanyahu, and used the JCPOA for toilet paper. Victory to Iran!!!

  21. @Rabbitnexus

    Perhaps you believe that I have committed a grave injustice to the BLATARIA Species by comparing Mike Pompeo to them?

  22. Rurik says:
    @JasonT

    “what is to prevent Iran from ordering a second strike that shuts down more Arab Gulf oil production?”

    There is no evidence that Iran ordered a strike on Saudi (not “Arab Gulf”) oil production. Iran denies involvement and the Houthis claim responsibility. Given the American track record of lying about almost everything, I will believe the Iranians and Houthis on this one until real evidence can be presented indicating otherwise.

    My thoughts too.

    Buchannan, provocative use of pronouns aside, is generally punctilious with his facts, (as all writers with any hope of credibility must be).

    Ironically, for as close to the objective truth that might be out there, I went to RT to find out what is known.

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/469181-washington-iran-policy-riyadh/

    Houthis, it should be pointed out, have carried out drone and missile strikes against strategic targets in the kingdom before, so it is conceivable that their claim to have been responsible for this attack carries with it the ring of truth

    Yes, the Iranians have no doubt been supplying the Houthis with weaponry and no doubt also the expertise in how to use them in their conflict against the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen. What of it? Have the Saudis not supplied opposition groups in Syria with weapons? Have the British and Americans not been supplying the Saudis with weaponry and military expertise in support of its four-year-long and counting war in Yemen? And have those weapons not been responsible for killing thousands of civilians in that benighted and forsaken land?

    Sounds reasonable, based on what we know.

    Pat Buchannan:

    The policy imposed by Trump, Pompeo and John Bolton after our unilateral withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.

    Our course was fixed by the policy we chose to pursue.

    There he goes again with his “we” chose to pursue’.

    When Obama unleashed the FBI and CIA to spy on the Trump campaign, should president Trump speak of that by saying, ‘well, since we decided to spy on my campaign, it has turned out that we used questionable intelligence for our pretexts to authorize spying on my campaign’.

    Eh Pat?

    After all, according to your studious use of the English language, with a storied career as a gifted writer, the ZUS government and = the American people- are exactly the same thing.

    Sitting Bull = General Sherman.

    Bonus army = General MacArthur

    Men who died on the USS Liberty = president Johnson, (who demanded that no assistance be given to those men).

    Beleaguered 21st century American = psychopathic anti-American Zionist scum controlling ZUS government.

    All one and the same thing, huh Pat?

    A more fundamental question arises: If the United States was not attacked, why is it our duty to respond militarily to an attack on Saudi Arabia?

    Thank you!

    The grotesque Zionist ogre Pompeo keeps calling the attack on Saudi Arabia as “an act of war”.

    Well, duh!

    Yemen has been at war with Saudi Arabia for years now. Why the f’ wouldn’t they be expected to reciprocate to acts of violence and genocide against their country?

    This has become the metric in our era of ubiquitous and unilateral Zionist thuggery, bullying and insanity.

    The ZUSA and it’s master Israel, feel justified to bomb and drone and assassinate anyone anywhere for what ever whim they feel like, without even so much as a pretext for ‘justification’.

    And if anyone dares to resist, then it’s all out shrieking by the cowardly big petulant bully who got a black eye from the little kid he was bullying.

    How dare an Afghan “terrorist” living in Afghanistan kill an occupying Zionist soldier!

    How dare the Syrian army kill some of Saudi’s head-slicing ISIS orcs!

    And then to add to the already insane metric, the blubber-arsed Pompeo has the pus nads to imply that Yemen (or Iran for that matter) fighting against the regime waging war upon them.. is somehow a provocation against the United States.

    ‘The Saudis give us billions of dollars and are allied with our masters in Tel Aviv. As they starve your nation into submission to their stone age domination, if you fight back, we’ll consider that an act of war against America’s homeland.’

    “War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength”

  23. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    It is interesting to learn how the senseless killings have been normalized by the war on the terror ,by the chaos created by the war, by the push back against any peace effort ,by the interest in arms sales and by the bribes that flow into the candidates coffers to fight election and from the universal consensus in the media,most think tanks,most academia and the administration for war as first response to any disagreements .

    It is also a big career move for a lot of psychopaths who wont be able to function in society otherwise and eke out a living from performing normal job.

    The one thing is clear that the so called cry for democracy human right freedom were nothing but total nonsense in the service of hoodwinking people and justifying illegal wars .

  24. Anon[348] • Disclaimer says:

    All the animosity towards Iran is all cooked up by the mainstream media, which is all run by Jews. Iranians themselves bare no hostility towards Americans. Watch and follow this vlogger as he travels through Iran:

    • Replies: @turtle
  25. @Paul

    He wanted to appear ‘tough’ like his screen idol. Instead he fell into a neocon trap.

  26. @Rurik

    Attempted a very crude Google translation of the top and bottom poster captions (they appear to incorporate German, Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish):

    “Culture Terrorist”

    “U.S.A. will save
    Europe culture
    from downfall
    with hulk straight?”

    Makes sense to me except for the last word “straight.”

    Powerful icon images a French criticism I once heard,
    that the US is vulgar, brutal, and mercenary.

    • Agree: Rurik
    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  27. The US would strangle Iran
    Down to the last woman, child, and man.
    Cut off oil, meds, and heartless banks:
    “Christian” ‘Murka joins the devil’s ranks.

  28. @The Alarmist

    Perhaps there is no Trump? There never was a Trump?

    There is only the real estate, money, media machine we call Trump.

  29. “Yet even if there is no U.S. or Saudi military response to Saturday’s attack, what is to prevent Iran from ordering a second strike”

    And Paddy sneaks in the lie that Iran was behind the first attack.

    What a piece of war-mongering shit.

    • Replies: @turtle
  30. @peter mcloughlin

    My only hope is that, if war comes between the US and Iran, that the Russians and Chinese band together to defend the Persian republic and clobber the shit out of the Hegemon. No country is more deserving of a comeuppance than the degenerate USofA. If it turns into a World War, so be it. If it doesn’t go nuclear, the US will lose. If it does go nuclear, everyone loses, but the planet will do much better without humans anyway. The current situation is intolerable.

    • Replies: @A123
  31. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Renoman

    “Saudi Arabia is the slimiest Country in the World…”

    No, that would be Israel.

  32. Incitatus says:
    @Rurik

    “My thoughts too.”

    Kindly attribute “War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength” to Orwell.

    Kindly identify the source of your wonderful “Kulture-Terror” 4-armed, two-legged image. Give us the source.

    The hooded head, “Ku-Klux-K…(obscured)” collar, Miss-America (native eagle-feather headdress blowing a jazz-horn under a demonic vinyl recording (demon Jazz?); ‘Miss Victory’ holding the American flag under money-bags (corrupt American capitalism); American Army-Air Force wings/markings, hangmans noose, “jitterbug triumph of…” cage, tommy-gun, grenade (BIG MISTAKE – they used a German ‘potato-masher’ grenade. And, of course the ‘drum’ body, Jewish loin-cloth, left-foot bomb?

    Wild guess. Nazi Germany 1942 (before the really awful bombing 1943-45)?

    Who authored the image? Aryan in good standing? Judische untermensch in in a KZ? Give us a clue.

    Do you use Nazi images to support your talking points, Rurik?

    What’s up with that?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  33. @Avery

    The Byzantines and Sasanids, precursors of modern Iran, fought a series of wars, the last of which lasted 26 years and left both empires susceptible to being over-run by the muslims. Modern day Iran may not scale to the Sasanian Empire of 602AD, but that does not mean their US opponents will fare any better by extended warfare with them.

  34. Rurik says:
    @Incitatus

    Kindly attribute “War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength” to Orwell.

    why?

    It’s a very well-known quote for most educated people. Not too many illiterates here at Unz.

    If I write “Blessed are the Peacemakers”, do you need that attributed too?

    Kindly identify the source of your wonderful “Kulture-Terror” 4-armed, two-legged image. Give us the source.

    who elected you Unz hall monitor?

    The (rather famous) artwork speaks for itself.

    But because others were interested, it’s a Norwegian WWII era poster.

    Do you use Nazi images to support your talking points, Rurik?

    My ‘talking points’ are supported by their own cogence.

    And the Nazis were correct about many things. Many things indeed.

    Jets make for useful airplane engines, for example. Commies are for killing, and crony capitalism is a menace. Who could argue with those?

    Or the star of David, the bag of money, and the bombs raining down on innocent people.

    As the drums of war and slaughter and cultural terror lay waste to civilizations the world over.

    Reposted just for you! ; )

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  35. A123 says:
    @follyofwar

    My only hope is that, if war comes between the US and Iran, that the Russians and Chinese band together to defend the Persian republic

    If Iran starts a war it will be between Shia and Sunni. Why would China, the U.S., or Russia put boots on the ground in the middle of that sort of quagmire? Are you really suggesting that Russian Orthodox Putin is that crazy? They might sell or give weapons to their side but the the big nuclear armed powers do not want to accidentally approach a direct fight.

    Trump has been trying to extract U.S. Troops from Afghanistan, but a limited number of probably CIA funded Taliban leaders just screwed that up. The number of troops he is willing to put on the ground in Iran is near zero. As things rapidly go bad, worse, worst for Khameni — Allowing him to escape could require another bin Laden style hunt if he flees the country and hides like a coward. Placing a few boots on the ground to prevent the Ayatollah from slithering away would be a be a very limited but valid mission.
    _____

    In economic terms, essentially 100% of the big, easily hit, relatively easily damaged, oil facilities on all sides will be wiped out within the first few months. The major players have been looking at options to permanently replace Persian Gulf production. Russia is in an excellent position, the U.S. neutral, and China is the most inconvenienced. However, China has planned well ahead for this contingency.

    China talks about One Belt One Road [OBOR]. However, their actions and spending clearly indicate a strategy better described All Belt No Road [ABNR]. The only place where major Belt spending is gearing up build s the “Iron Road” not the silk road. Hydrocarbon transport and rail inks from Russia to China, which would allow China to reduce their dependency on Gulf Oil.

    ABNR spending that reaches all the way to Venezuela would be another obvious play if they can purchase a substantial stake in PDVSA. Imagine how much the NeoConDemocrats of the Globalist, establishment pro-war left would scream if China became 25% owner of PDVSA. Biden would probably make Hillary Secretary of Offense and let her invade.

    The development of fracking has given the U.S. a short term, but huge, supply of natural gas, and the opportunity to develop new oil fields for the long haul. If there is no way to prevent Iran from starting a war, losing the entire gulf region including the Saudis to deindustrialization would not be a crippling blow. The gas surge, while expensive to export, would allow the U.S. to sell into new markets if Gulf production is going offline for decades.
    _____

    The best option is the Iranian people and military freeing the nation from oppressive rule. The Ayatollah has become so hated and repressive that Iranians are burning themselves to death to resist Khameni’s rule. (1)

    Twenty-nine-year-old Sahar Khodayari died several days after setting herself on fire on September 2, 2019 outside a courthouse, where she had been summoned after being arrested for trying to enter Tehran’s Azadi Stadium in March dressed as a man.

    The Ayatollah is more hated than the Shah. The Globalist created Green revolution failed, because the outside forces wanted to turn Iran into a servitor playground of unelected elites. However, a true internal revolution gives the Iranian people a chance at freedom and self-determination. Trump wants to strike directly at the religious tyrants, not the Iranian military. The Iranian generals are the way out of the problem if they are bold enough to act.

    PEACE

    _____

    (1) https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/09/sahar_the_blue_girl_of_iran_struck_down.html

    • Replies: @MEexpert
  36. @SeekerofthePresence

    Attempted correction with Google translation of captions, top and bottom, of poster (Norwegian WWII era, as Rurik notes):

    “CULTURE-TERROR”

    “U.S.A. will save Europe’s culture from ruin…With the hulk, right?”

    (Ellipsis and comma my interpolations.)

    P.S. Recent Princeton simulation shows limited nuclear war in Europe could result in 34 million casualties in the first several hours.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bjwv3z/even-limited-nuclear-war-could-cause-90-million-casualties-in-a-few-hours

  37. anon[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @TGD

    Iran’s proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza” have not and will not forget that the war against Iran was started by Israel and was perpetuated by Israel. Saudi Arabia joined late possibly out of blackmail by Israel. American moon might forget the history but ”
    Iran’s proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza” haven’t and will not .

    Just before the war, Israel might try to untangle itself and even become anti war, again “Iran’s proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza” won’t fall for that shit . That shit is for the evangelical, for the dewey eyed liberal and for the primary school attendees to fall for and they will. Fox will tell after the damage to US has been proven to be self inflicted and obvious that Israel told us not to get into war and MSNBC would say same but again ” Iran’s proxies in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza” will not be guided by that piece of BS. They do what they do best :stand up to a bully that has bullied USA for last 100 years .

    Now look at what Israel has done to this country . It has been reduced to an undernourished , neglected , abused and abandoned dog by Israel.

  38. anon[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    What was this country doing by showcasing an attack on Iran in 2002 ? Was Houthi there then ? Was Syria burning then ? Was Iran in Syria then ? WTF this country was doing that then ?

  39. MEexpert says:
    @A123

    If Iran starts a war it will be between Shia and Sunni.

    If?

    Iranians are not stupid. If they wanted to start a war, they would have done so by now. Cowards Israel and the Arab monarchs want war badly but only if Americans fight it. Iran knows it and precisely for this reason she won’t start one. A123, you should stop smoking Israeli hashish. It is not good for you. Khamenei is not King Salman, MBS, or Netanyahu. If war comes, he knows how to fight a war. He will not hide.

    Iran has said time after time that she does not want war. But if it comes, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Israel will not escape it, whether US starts it or they do. Israel is scared to death of Hizbullah missiles. Remember A123, it is missiles not rockets. One missile and bye bye Dimona. Also don’t forget Hamas and the Palestinians. They will not miss their chance to get back at Israel.

    Poor Saudis! They couldn’t handle poverty sticken Yemen. How do you think they will stand up to Iran, Iraq, and the Shia population of the Eastern province while still fighting Yemen.

    You must choke every time you use the word Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Rurik
  40. Talha says:
    @MEexpert

    Poor Saudis!

    Now apparently we are going to deploy troops – again – to Saudi, because, I guess, the last three decades didn’t actually happen.

    Saudi military is the most expensive and useless military in the world, bar none. It’s only good for starving a nation as poor as Yemen and apparently they are having trouble with that. 🤨

    How do you think they will stand up

    They won’t, they’re going to have the US do all the fighting.

    Aren’t these gulf guys embarrassed at this level of cowardice and incompetence?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @MEexpert
    , @Rurik
  41. There’s an interesting interview by the ABC’s excellent Geraldine Doogue with George Friedman (of Stratfor or whatever it is called now) on this morning’s Radio National Saturfay Extra

    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/saturdayextra/george-friedman-on-iran-and-the-oil-refinery-attack-against-sau/11529940

    He credits Trump with brains enough to try and avoid war with Iran, while using economic sanctions – as he does… Ayatollah Kamenei he rates very highly. He is quite clear that Iran had to be responsible for the attack on oil refineries that the Houthi rebels claimed credit for. What was to me was his most important contribution to understanding Iran’s posiiion was reference to the 1 million young men killed in the 1980s Iraq-Iran war. He didn’t even mentiin America’s support for Iraq.. And he didn’t rub it in by noting that America can’t get over a few hundred hostages in 1979.

    • Replies: @anon
  42. Herald says:
    @peterAUS

    Yes that’s right. I don’t often wholeheartedly agree with Peter, so I thought I would do it properly, rather than just pressing the button.

  43. MEexpert says:
    @Talha

    Now apparently we are going to deploy troops – again – to Saudi, because, I guess, the last three decades didn’t actually happen.

    Talk about five decades. The US military has been training Saudis for the past 50 years. The US would have do all the fighting. You can bet on it. The brave Prince Bundar bin Sultan of Bunder-Bush fame, would not even get into the plane if it was serviced by a Saudi. The plane had to be rechecked by an American technician before he would fly it.

    I wonder how many americans want to give their life for the Royal Saudi scums.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @follyofwar
    , @Rurik
  44. JasonT says:
    @Amerimutt Golems

    Two unnamed talking heads said something with no documentation to support what these mystery people said. The evidence is not ‘circumstantial’. The evidence is non-existent.

  45. It’s very easy to attack, but if you ask Lindsey … ask him how did going into the Middle East … work out. And how did Iraq work out?”

    Still, if neither America nor Iran wants war, what has brought us to the brink?

    The answer is, that quite a few blood sucking investors, including Lindsey girl herself, have done quite well from the War on Terror, thank you. Which explains why they do everything in their power to expand and prevent it from ever coming to an end.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  46. We need to set up two betting pools:

    1) Does Trump take us to war with Iran, and when?

    2) How soon will MBS be deposed?

    • Replies: @A123
    , @A123
  47. Rich says:
    @Altai

    Had the US listened to General MacArthur and attacked the Chicoms, N Korea would have been freed, and perhaps even the Chinese people themselves could have been freed from the communist boot. The US never intended to invade N Korea, or take any of its land. The war was a defensive one, fought to keep S Korea free from the communist butchers.

    The US didn’t “start” the Vietnam War, it was started by communists who invaded the South. The US sought only to defend the Southerners right to remain free of communism. S Vietnam would be free today if not for the leftist coup that removed Nixon and enabled the new US government to ignore treaty obligations the US had with the South.

  48. Corvinus says:

    “President Donald Trump does not want war with Iran.”

    followed by…

    “Answer: The policy imposed by Trump, Pompeo and John Bolton after our unilateral withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal.”

    So Trump MAY or MAY NOT want war. Wake me up when the bombs actually hit Teheran.

    • Replies: @Herald
  49. Corvinus says:
    @Rurik

    “Beleaguered 21st century American = psychopathic anti-American Zionist scum controlling ZUS government.”

    That would be Fake News.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  50. @Paul

    Trump’s problems result from three main flaws. An outsized ego, total ignorance of world affairs, and a penchant for picking and listening to Zionist advisors whose over-riding concern and allegiance is to Jews and Israel, not to Gentiles and the United States. With the same being true of every presidential administration since JFK who, as a result of not taking orders from Zionist, was assassinated in broad daylight.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke
  51. Talha says:
    @MEexpert

    The plane had to be rechecked by an American technician before he would fly it.

    Yup, it is the Saudi way; thtow money at a problem until it goes away:
    “Boeing contracted for sustainment of Saudi F-15s”
    https://www.upi.com/amp/Defense-News/2018/11/02/Boeing-contracted-for-sustainment-of-Saudi-F-15s/9491541173006/

    I wonder how many americans want to give their life for the Royal Saudi scums.

    I think the better question is; how many Americans want to die to keep Saudis providing more jobs via military contracts and purchases?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  52. anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Though Bin Laden never actually claimed any responsibility for 911 attack , the media was quick to jump to that conclusion because he
    did not condone ,because he got satisfaction out of it or becuse he was fine with the attack. Media ’s reaching of conclusion was based on fake admission and later on fake video . .

    Now a real and repeated claim emerges form Houthi saying it were they who attacked and sent the drone .Despite that Media wants the public to believe that it was Iran.

    Media has no problem in accepting the assertions of ISIS that it has carried out terrorism as facts whenever any terror is struck against anybody by anyone .

    Western media work in synch with Blair , Bush jr Obama Biden Samtha Power Bolton Biden Pompeo Trump and think tanks . Their handlers make it sure that they do.

  53. @MEexpert

    “I wonder how many Americans want to give their life for the Royal Saudi scums?”

    Not too many, I imagine. Yet, the grunts in the US military are no doubt scared to death to refuse to deploy or to desert. They are stuck. If there are not enough new recruits to replace the current bunch, the DOD can and will implement “Stop-Loss,” in effect making them draftees. In other words, slaves. So, as in all needless, counterproductive wars, they will fight for their buddies, as they always have. But they won’t be fighting for the Saudi royal family. That’s for sure.

    I know that the majority of recruits join the military to get out of poverty or for the hoped for educational benefits once their enlistments are up. Still, any young person who joins the military today must have rocks in his/her head. The best and brightest are refusing to sign up anyway, leaving the enlisted military with many who are functionally illiterate. I’d love to see what happens if Washington decides it must reinstitute the draft. The US military, so I’ve read, has a drastic shortage of qualified pilots. Maybe its hard for them to live with the fact that the bombs they dropped could have killed hundreds of innocent people.

    I’d imagine that the Iranians, faced with the extinction of their ancient culture, are a lot more motivated to fight. They hate the Americans much more than they may (or may not) hate their Ayatollah. US liberal hegemony may be about to face its Waterloo. Trump better proceed with extreme caution.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  54. @peter mcloughlin

    Any country that attacks Iran will become the “main battlefield” in the ensuing war. That is the message this weekend from the Iran’s Revolutionary Guards.

    In other words, it seems that a cruise missile launched from a US carrier or from a base in Saudi Arabia will lead to more than just a response on the carrier or the base. Targets are going to start blowing up and burning up in the United States itself. If the UK or France or other vassal states are coerced into cooperating with the US in this aggressive action, those countries will also see mayhem on their home soil following any attack on Iran. At least this is how I interpret their message.

    The Iranians have been planning their asymmetric response to US aggression for decades. I imagine they have “troops” in place in the US and Europe prepared to act if the climactic moment arrives. If they see an American attack on them as an existential threat, why would this not be their response?

  55. Rurik says:
    @MEexpert

    Also don’t forget Hamas and the Palestinians. They will not miss their chance to get back at Israel.

    not to mention millions of Americans that are sick of the treachery and treason.

    Millions of Americans know who perpetrated 9/11, and why.

    If it actually comes to war, all Americans of good character (there are millions) will be on Iran’s side. Knowing that this is Israel’s war, and that Americans are expected to die for the criminals who perpetrated 9/11.

    You must choke every time you use the word Peace.

    Just the opposite.

    A123 is like Anthony Weiner sending photos of his diminutive ‘manhood’ to underage girls. He gets a kick out of his flagrant perversion of common decency.

  56. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    They won’t, they’re going to have the US do all the fighting.

    Yep

    Because freedom and democracy are worth fighting and dying for!

    Peace.

    https://rense.com/general77/assassination.htm

  57. Rurik says:
    @MEexpert

    I wonder how many americans want to give their life for the Royal Saudi scums.

    but it’s for freedom and democracy!

    There seems to be some confusion over the question of when Jamal Khashoggi’s fingers were removed during his video taped torture and execution (for the amusement of the Saudi rat).

    Some theorize that his fingers might have been removed after he was dead, but that begs the question- why?

    If you’re torturing a man for the amusement it gives you to hear his screams, then why cut his fingers off after he’s dead?

    If you need to put his corpse in a suitcase or something, then sure, you might cut his legs off or something, in order to make it fit. But cutting off his fingers after he’s dead simply makes no damn sense, especially as you’d be very pressed for time, and eager to escape the Turkish embassy after your heinous crime.

    I would posit that it’s obvious that the Saudi mongrel had Khashoggi’s fingers cut off while he was still alive, perhaps because it was those journalist’s fingers that had typed words that offended the Saudi mongrel.

    Doesn’t that make more sense than cutting off his finger once he was dead?!

    Anyways, USA! USA!

    If you threaten freedom and democracy, then we’ll kill you in obedience to our stone age, finger-cutting, Saudi masters!

  58. Rurik says:
    @Carroll Price

    Which explains why they do everything in their power to expand and prevent it from ever coming to an end.

    yep

    And also, the Eternal War for Israel is seen as ‘good for the Jews’.

    Anything that’s perceived as ‘good for the Jews’, the US Senate will lick off Sheldon Adelson’s casino bathroom floor. Even what Lindsey and Marco leave behind.

    {In a way, I feel such imagery is a bit indecorous, but then what could be more indecent than young American men and women sent to kill and die on behalf of their enemies?

    The image of Mitt Romney licking Marco’s goo off the floor to impress Sheldon Adelson, isn’t even close to as offensive, and seems rather apropos.}

  59. For the US, the war with Iran is very easy to avoid – just don’t start it. Of course, Israel would be mad: they produced so many fakes to drive the US to war with Iran, they’d hate all that effort going to waste. The war with Iran would be against the best interests of the US as a country, likely even against the best interests of the US as an Empire. We’ll see whether the US President has the US interests in mind.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  60. @Rich

    Ever heard of Tonkin incident? That was a pretty well-established false flag. Not the last one.

  61. Rurik says:
    @Corvinus

    “Beleaguered 21st century American = psychopathic anti-American Zionist scum controlling ZUS government.”

    That would be Fake News.

    According to you, Corvy

    But to the rest of us, it’s quite obvious that America has been engaged in criminal aggressive wars in the Middle East on Israel’s behalf, at the catastrophic expense of the American people. Untold trillions of dollars borrowed at interest for America’s children to be on the hook for – for perpetuity. As the psychopathic anti-American Zionist scum

    controlling the US government, are dooming America’s children into permanent debt slavery (to their ((enemies))) so that tens of millions of innocent lives in the Middle East can be sent reeling into unimaginable suffering.

    All to sate an insatiable lust for hatred, misery- that Jewish supremacists get off on. Duh.

    You know as well as the rest of us, that the White House, US Senate and House are controlled by Jewish supremacist$. That’s the biggest ‘duh’ there is.

    And so as these treasonous scum in DC, demand that “Israel has a right to defend itself” while a jack-booted coward in an IDF uniform shoots another child for fun, they make a mockery of America and any notion of simple human decency.

    And we all know it.

    • Replies: @follyofwar
    , @Corvinus
  62. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    I think the better question is; how many Americans want to die to keep Saudis providing more jobs via military contracts and purchases?

    This is my query:

    How much of the slavish, servility of the US Gov. to the Saudi mongrels is due to the billions they spend on weapons..

    vs.

    The Saudi’s having positioned themselves as bestest buddies to Zion?

    IOW, is it simply for the cash, or is it more because of the US Gov.’s abased fealty to all things Israel.

    The Fed recently came out with more QE billions to pump into (((Wall Street))). If the powers that be needed a few trill, they can simply print it. They can (and do) print all the billions they need or want.

    Selling weapons is good for the “defense” industries, but if the ((real powers)) decide they want some more lucre, they just print it.

    Many nations are wealthy, but the ZUS Gov. seems to gush over the Saudis far beyond the money they send.

    It seems to me that if you want to find the motivating principle behind all relationships with the ZUS (and French and British and other) governments, then it really all does boil down to ‘what is good for Israel’.

    And it’s all very well known that the Saudis are ‘good for Israel’, because they too want to destroy Iran, (and Syria and are soulless rats willing to toss the Palestinians under the bus so they can cavort with whores and torture journalists to death).

    I don’t think the fealty to the Saudis is because of the money or oil.

    I suspect that it’s because of Saudi’s close special relationship with the Zionist regime, that ZUS presidents bow and scrap and generally humiliate the office of the president.

    If oil rich Iran were to declare their fealty to Zion, and promote homomania and porn and declare Israel’s eternal sovereignty over the Golan and West Bank and Gaza and Lebanon, then ZUS presidents would gush over Iran’s greatness and bow and scrap to its rulers like they do to the Saudis.

    IOW, I don’t think its the money. Rather is all about ‘What’s good for the Jews’.

    And the Saudis are definitely ‘good for the genocidal, murderous Jewish supremacists of Israel’. IMHO.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
  63. Rurik says:
    @follyofwar

    They hate the Americans much more than they may (or may not) hate their Ayatollah.

    As usual, I agree with your excellent comment, and only wanted to point out (as I suspect you’d agree) that I don’t think Iranians hate Americans.

    But rather they hate the ZUSA government- that is the enemy of not just Iranians, but Americans have ever had.

    They hate Lindsey Graham, and Mitt Romney, and Donald Trump, for his shameless, treasonous groveling to Zion.

    And rightly so.

    But I suspect that most Iranians have no beef with your typical American bus driver or accountant or waitress.

  64. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    That definitely has quite a bit to do with it; my personal feeling is that it is a combination of two aspects; being friendly with Israel and a loyal client for our arms industry. That and the fact that many of our elites actually have personal friendships with certain Saudis (like the Bush family, also I’m pretty sure Trump has had investment ties with Saudis in the past).

    Peace.

  65. @Rich

    Had the US listened to General MacArthur and attacked the Chicoms, N Korea would have been freed, and perhaps even the Chinese people themselves could have been freed from the communist boot. The US never intended to invade N Korea, or take any of its land. The war was a defensive one, fought to keep S Korea free from the communist butchers.

    Maybe, probably, Truman did not fancy WW3. There is doubt about the start of the Korean War. Maybe it was the North that started it and maybe it wasn’t. The Japanese had had more than 10mln troops in China and it was not enough. I suspect Stalin wanted the Korean war so that the US and China would both be weakened (I don’t think he wanted another Centre of World Communism outside his control.) OTH I don’t think he wanted the US running China as an industrial colony either. So McArthur had a choice, either a nuclear war with potentially disastrous consequences or a long-running war with no real end in sight. As it was, the Chinese and Koreans fought the US and its allies to a standstill.

    If China had become a US colony what sort of state do you think it would be in now? The US as we all know, of course, ” never intended to invade N Korea, or take any of its land. ” The US does not do things like that! Sa va sans dir!

    • Replies: @Rich
  66. A123 says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    We need to set up two betting pools:

    1) Does Trump take us to war with Iran, and when?

    2) How soon will MBS be deposed?

  67. muen says:

    Perhaps the only way to avoid wider conflicts in the Middle East is to stop giving billions of dollars to Israel, kick all neocons, Israelis and dual USA/Israel passport holders out of all federal, state and local government, the pentagon, nsa, cia, fbi, and Miami Beach. Then, American can have peace.

  68. A123 says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    Please ignore #67. A system crash created that post during browser recovery.

    _____

    We need to set up two betting pools:
    1) Does Trump take us to war with Iran, and when?
    2) How soon will MBS be deposed?

    #1 — Do you mean a full fledged Ground invasion. If so, the question has an easy answer. Trump will not invade Iran. The U.S. taxpayers were stuck with a huge bill for nation building in Iraq by prior, establishment uniparty administrations.

    #2 — I wouldn’t want to predict a date for #2, but it is unlikely to be soon. Iran’s unprovoked aggression is causing the Saudi people to rally around MBS. And, he has taken action to eradicate the Muslim Wahhabi Brotherhood threat within Saudi Arabia and nearby countries. MBS eliminated Wahhabi Brother Kashoggi outside of SA borders. Can you imagine what the penalty will be if he catches a Wahhabi Terrorist Brother in SA?

    ______

    Let us review a partial list of only a few of the War Crimes committed by Ayatollah Khameni:
    — Using captured U.S. Marines as a propaganda tool.
    — Shooting down aircraft in international airspace. Fortunately, it was a drone not a manned aircraft.
    — Damaging several tankers in Saudi and/or international waters.
    — Holding uninvolved Indian nationals hostage.
    — Launching a first strike against Saudi Arabia without a UNSC resolution.

    I find the “Team Iran” posters here to be quite entertaining. Isn’t it amazing that just days ago they were condemning the U.S. for ignoring the UNSC. Now that Iran launched an unauthorized first strike, they are suddenly silent on the UNSC.

    Maybe my long-term education efforts have succeeded. They are adopting my logical position, ‘The UNSC is ignorable”.
    _______

    If you want to start pools, you need to ask better questions. How about:

    1) Will Ayatollah Khameni attempt to start a Shia-Sunni regional war? If so, when?

    2) How soon will international war criminal Khameni be removed by Iranian citizens?

    The Iranian people are victims of Khameni’s brutality. Hopefully, the Iranian military will step up to the plate and protect the citizens of Iran.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    , @anon
  69. @Rich

    You get an A+ in revisionist history.

  70. Incitatus says:
    @Rurik

    “It’s a very well-known quote for most educated people.”

    You’re an ‘educated person’ Rurik. What about the not-so-well-educated?

    Attribution is attribution. Theft is theft. Full stop.

    If I write “Blessed are the Peacemakers”, do you need that attributed too?

    Did I miss that post? Give me the link, Mahatma Rurik.

    “who elected you Unz hall monitor?”

    God forbid! Giraldi expelled me. But, of course, you knew that.

    Am I not allowed to ask questions?

    Petition Ron Unz, Rurik. Happy to waste less time here.

    “The (rather famous) artwork speaks for itself…But because others were interested, it’s a Norwegian WWII era poster.”

    Thank you for that. It was the object of my post.

    It’s a wonderful graphic. Norwegian? Name the artist. Production/publication date? What happened him/her 1940-45?

    Be clear. You use a 20C graphic without attribution, no mention of the artist, to support your views. Who was the artist, what was the date?

    “My ‘talking points’ are supported by their own cogence…And the Nazis were correct about many things. Many things indeed.”

    Yes, anyone who’s followed you knows your belief. All will give you that. You’re a ‘true believer’. Kudos for that.

    Are you right? Isn’t the real question?

    End point. You use 40s Nazi-Norwegian images to hawk your views.

    What’s up with that?

    • Replies: @turtle
    , @Rurik
  71. Druid says:
    @Renoman

    Their government is! Israel is the worst country with a psychopathic people and religion.

  72. @A123

    Re: #1. Trump is sending troops to KSA. That didn’t take long.

    Re: #2, Henry VIII used to promote nobility before engineering their downfalls. Don’t put too much stock in any rallying around MBS. MBS is popular only as long as he can keep Saudi bellies full. Arabs will try slice out a friend’s kidneys, and if they succeed, declare it was Allah’s will that such a thing came to pass.

    Why worry about Khameini when MBS has made beheading and crucifixion a spectator sport?

    You need to maintain perspective, ma’am.

    • Replies: @A123
  73. Talha says:
    @Carroll Price

    Thanks for the reference, much appreciated!

    Peace.

  74. @The Alarmist

    ‘…It doesn’t really matter if Iran is reponsible or not, it matters that they can make our punishment of them a costly exercise…’

    This is usually the calculation that deters bullies.

    As Iran just demonstrated. It really was a rather fine display of courage and carefully calculated firmness.

    They hit us just hard enough to demonstrate how much it will hurt if we persist — but not so hard that we can’t just ignore it.

    Obviously, they know how to communicate with thugs.

  75. The real question is: does anyone have the [email protected] to accuse Israel of the drone attack on Saudi Arabia?

    They want Iran destroyed for their ‘Eretz Israel”. Who has more motive to push America to war in Iran than Israel and all the Israel First Traitors in America? Bolton is gone. I predict Pompeo is gone after the 2020 Election. Trump may have flaws but being the sucker in the room that signs off on this Disaster in the Making, the attack on Iran that blows the world economy up? Not going to happen.

    Nice try Jewish Psychopaths. Now go console Bibi. I hear he could use cheering up.

  76. turtle says:
    @Bill Jones

    KSA uses weapons made in USA to attack Yemen.
    Yemen retaliates using weapons made in Iran.

    Why is the first considered unremarkable, and the second scandalous?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  77. @peter mcloughlin

    “Neither sides want war.”

    Nonsense. If the evil orange clown and his jewish supremacist handlers didn’t want war they wouldn’t be trying to start a war.

    “Both sides are incrementally moving closer towards it while pursuing their own national interests.”

    More nonsense. First, what actual “national interest” is team orange clown pursuing? None; he’s doing jew dirty work. Second, in what sense is Iran “incrementally moving closer towards (war)”; by merely refusing to surrender its sovereignty to the evil empire?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  78. turtle says:
    @Rich

    Had the US listened to General MacArthur and attacked the Chicoms

    Had the U.S. listened to Gen. Patton and attacked dem Russkies….Churchill might have been deprived of his Iron Curtain speech.
    In some alternate universe, perhaps…
    (And if the little dog hadn’t stopped, he would still be running.)

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
  79. @turtle

    ‘Why is the first considered unremarkable, and the second scandalous?’

    Whatever the explanation, it’s probably connected to the phenomenon that it would of course have been an outrage if Russia had interfered in our elections — but Pompeo calmly observed that if it looked like Corbyn was going to become Prime Minister of Britain, we’d have to intervene.

  80. @Harold Smith

    Nonsense. If the evil orange clown and his jewish supremacist handlers didn’t want war they wouldn’t be trying to start a war…’

    I don’t think it’s that simple. Trump probably did promise Adelson he’d start that war with Iran — but he knows perfectly well that as matters stand, if he does, there’s no way he’ll get re-elected in 2020.

    I see three possibilities. Trump reneges on his promises and simply doesn’t start the war. He resigns himself to not getting reelected and starts the war as he promised. Israel helps us stage a really impressive black flag operation — one with lots of dead Americans — shortly before the election. Trump then starts the war, hoping to get the ‘Mission Accomplished’ part before the election but not the aftermath.

    Trump’s walking a tightrope. He can’t start the war now and get re-elected — not without a better pretext.

  81. turtle says:
    @Incitatus

    Happy to waste less time here.

    Yet you return…
    What exactly is the draw, hoss?
    And since you evidently yearn for “Nazi-Norwegian” images, please find attached a “Nazi-Norwegian” cradle song..

    Evidently there are versions whose lyrics make no mention of the Third Reich
    e.g.

    No doubt those are “Nazi” images also, since all of us of German heritage have an “inner Nazi” just yearning to be born, eh?

    Got to go. we’re having a seance tonight, in which the object will be to contact Heinrich Himmler, learn his detailed plans for the expansion of Wewelsburg Castle.

    M.f.g,,
    Hans Zeichner

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  82. turtle says:
    @Colin Wright

    He resigns himself to not getting reelected and starts the war as he promised.

    Unlikely, Every pol wants to stay in power.

    really impressive black flag operation

    No doubt you intend “false flag.”

    He can’t start the war now and get re-elected — not without a better pretext.

    Agree.

  83. @Talha

    ‘also I’m pretty sure Trump has had investment ties with Saudis in the past).’

    I think what’s more relevant is that Trump spent his life doing business in and around New York City.

    If a third of the billionaires in the US as a whole are Jewish, what would the percentage be in New York City?

    And you know Trump hasn’t gone through his whole life without sinning somewhere — and so some Zionist fat cat must have something on him, and when that Zionist says ‘jump,’ all Trump can say is ‘how high?’

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @anon
  84. Miro23 says:
    @AnonFromTN

    For the US, the war with Iran is very easy to avoid – just don’t start it. Of course, Israel would be mad: they produced so many fakes to drive the US to war with Iran, they’d hate all that effort going to waste. The war with Iran would be against the best interests of the US as a country, likely even against the best interests of the US as an Empire. We’ll see whether the US President has the US interests in mind.

    There are other aspects to this.

    A replay of Iraq would be bad for Trump politically (he was elected on stopping ME wars), but probably more relevant, the US can’t afford another $ Trillion war on credit, especially one that would smash up the world’s premier oil producing region.

    Much higher oil prices would be blamed on Trump, with the whole leveraged house of cards (AKA the US economy) put at risk. The neo-cons couldn’t care less, but half of the world’s Jews also live in the US and would presumably balance their own financial interests against those of Israel.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  85. Talha says:
    @turtle

    Great video – thanks!

    Peace.

  86. @Colin Wright

    Meanwhile, Mayor Pete is running an impressive false-fag operation.

  87. Rich says:
    @foolisholdman

    Maybe you’re right, the haberdasher from Missouri agreed with you, but I agree with MacArthur, and the many other military men of the era who believed that the way to stop the Chicom advance was to attack them on the Mainland. Along with the Nationalists, who although defeated, still had a sizable number of supporters on the Mainland, and our other allies, it was believed by many that we would have defeated the Reds. Remember the Japanese had only very recently conquered most of China, and we had defeated them while fighting a two front war.

    • Replies: @davidgmillsatty
  88. @Rurik

    Scum like Max Boot (picture above) still control American foreign policy. These assholes are NOT NeoConservatives, whatever that is supposed to mean. They are NeoLIBERAL hegemonists. Trotskyite revolutionaries. Boot and his ilk are now regularly seen on leftist platforms like CNN and MSNBC. There is nothing conservative about forcing your gay rights agenda down peoples throats by bombing their countries into rubble.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  89. @Miro23

    Yes, Jews always carefully count their shekels. If you pay enough, a classical Jew would sell his/her mother, let alone Israel.

  90. Corvinus says:
    @Rurik

    “But to the rest of us, it’s quite obvious that America has been engaged in criminal aggressive wars in the Middle East on Israel’s behalf…”

    I would agree that America has engaged in aggressive wars in the Middle East. Whether it be criminal or on Israel’s behalf is up for fierce debate.

    “Untold trillions of dollars borrowed at interest for America’s children to be on the hook for”

    I would agree that we have a major problem with debt in our nation, but do not people who take out loans should bear responsibility for perhaps living above their means? Furthermore, for better or for worse, banks are a critical component of our capitalist system. Hell, banks have been the engine for (white) growth for the past 500 years!

    “All to sate an insatiable lust for hatred, misery- that Jewish supremacists get off on.”

    That’s your imagination running wild.

    “You know as well as the rest of us, that the White House, US Senate and House are controlled by Jewish supremacist$.”

    Who is this “rest of us”? Who is this “we”?

    Furthermore, what efforts are you currently undertaking other than lamenting on a blog that will expose this apparent corruption to the rest of the American people? Do you not have a duty as a patriot to get on your soapbox and travel from coast to coast to inform our citizens of this menace?

    Otherwise, are you not contributing to this continuing body count by our supposed Jewish oppressors refusing to offer a modicum of resistance, just like the Minutemen of yore? The Trojan Horse has already spilled its contents and we are being overrun.

    What are you waiting for?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Rurik
    , @anon
  91. anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    During the hostage crisis, Americans were obstructed not only by erstwhile friend of US that was Iran but also by Israeli infiltrators , old embassy staff and spies whose major roles were to remove the incriminating evidences of decade long Israeli torture, financial deal with SAVAK and Israeli corruption in Iran and to whisk out any Israelis even at the cost of worsening the American safety and security in Iran at that time

    Before the marine barrack attack, Israeli intentionally prevented the information reach the US . It sat on the information it knew was coming because Israeli provocations were causing a lot of anger among not only Shia but also among the Christians and Israel was doing it with full US’s help . Lebanese saw US as Israel’s ally . Israel knew that there would be reaction . When the suspicion became a certainty and from where the revenge would come from, Israel sat on the information and let Americans die.

  92. Iran’s proxy relationships have given it an extraordinary ability to impose costs on its adversaries while obscuring its role. Doing so allows it to manage its risks while politically constraining its adversaries’ response. It might seem intuitive to simply declare Iran responsible, and satisfying to retaliate against it directly. But international law sets a high bar for holding a proxy’s benefactor responsible for the actions of its proxy, making it difficult to build the kind of international consensus necessary to the legitimacy for any retaliation.

    Under international law, a state is accountable for the unlawful actions of a proxy only if an organ of the state ordered the proxy to commit the act. It is not sufficient simply to have provided material support or even encouraged the unlawful act. For example, in the 1980s, the International Court of Justice found the United States not liable for Contra violations of international humanitarian law,

    even after concluding that the United States had “financed, organized, trained, supplied, equipped and armed” the Contras, even to the point of providing training materials that discussed “shoot civilians attempting to leave a town, neutralize local judges and officials, hire professional criminals to carry out ‘jobs,’ and provoke violence at mass demonstrations to create ‘martyrs’.”

    https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/09/saudi-oil-attacks-arent-game-changing-they-show-how-game-has-changed/159947/?oref=d-river

  93. Herald says:
    @Realist

    Yes, if he can borrow a real man’s balls.

    Brief, concise and incorrect. With or without Hillary’s balls, a Trumpian war against Iran is clearly not winnable, by any normal measure. The inevitable and massive level of collateral damage both to the US military and its allies would make this war completely unwinnable by any normal measure. But all that being said, Trump is clearly stupid enough to still want to try, if it pleases his zio masters.

  94. Herald says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    Don’t forget the Clintons, I’m sure they wouldn’t want to miss out.

  95. TGD says:

    A small scale retaliatory strike on Iran by the US would not prevent Iran from launching a major counter attack on US allies in the region and precipitating a major regional conflict.

    In order for a first strike on Iran to be effective, it would have to be massive and would include destroying Iran’s nuclear research facilities.

    Anthony Cordesman’s 2009 study on Iran’s military infrastructure is still relevant and frightening.

    https://csis-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legacy_files/files/media/csis/pubs/090316_israelistrikeiran.pdf

  96. Herald says:
    @Corvinus

    So Trump MAY or MAY NOT want war. Wake me up when the bombs actually hit Teheran.

    It might be of more direct concern to you, when the bombs actually hit Tel Aviv.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  97. anon[113] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    And might that Zionist be Bibi, via Barak, via Les Wexler, if it’s true that the younger Orange Clown*** once raped an underage girl at Epstein’s NYC mansion…..

    ***Just occurred to me that those who use this metaphor may do so in the sense of an evil clown, like The Joker … so double entendre.

    • Replies: @Smucker
  98. A123 says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    Why worry about Khameini when MBS has made beheading and crucifixion a spectator sport?

    You need to maintain perspective, ma’am.

    Why is the Saudi method of executing their death penalty an issue?
    Could it be that you are trying to distract from Ayatollah Khameni’s indefensible behaviour?

    At least MBS is trying to fix some of the mistakes made by prior Saudi leaders.

    Khameni has very limited mental perspective. He cannot see the mistakes made by prior Iranian leaders or his own errors. As a result, he keeps digging the whole deeper.
    _____

    Ayatollah Khameni has both a nuclear weapons program and a ballistic missile program approaching ICBM capability. Nuclear power plants for electricity use 3-5% enriched uranium. There are no ‘non-military’ uses for hundreds of kilos of of highly enriched uranium (20%+).

    Do you have enough perspective to understand that Iran’s neighbors and the world at large have objective reasons to be deeply concerned?

    Do you really want a nuclear arms race among Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and possibly others?

    _____

    Iran, under the previous Ayatollah, wrecked Lebanon by funding Shia violence and undermining the legitimate Lebanese goverment.
    — Prior to al’Hezbollah — Beirut was a regional hub for finance, tourism, and other successful commercial activity.
    — After contamination by Iranan al’Hezbollah. — Lebanon is teetering on the edge of collapse. Now, even the simplest government services such as trash collection are impeded by al’Hezbollah.

    Other leaders in the region have perspective on Iran’s actions. They want to make sure Iran doesn’t damage their countries the way they ruined Lebanon.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @anon
    , @anon
    , @MEexpert
    , @Anon
  99. anon[254] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    Peace in Hebrew means contamination of human soul.

    August 22 , 2018 http://www.mondoweiss.net

    ““In January however, a book was published that appears to reinforce the plausibility of Dean’s position. The book is Ronen Bergman’s Rise and Kill First. It has received rave reviews in the US press, and its author has been interviewed countless times since the book was published. The book focuses on Israeli ‘targeted assassinations’ and it contains one truly remarkable revelation.

    “In 1979, [Rafael] Eitan and [Meir] Dagan [both brass in the Israel Defense Forces] created the Front for the Liberation of Lebanon from Foreigners, and ran that fictitious group from 1979 to 1983. In 1981 and 1982, Ariel Sharon used that Front to conduct a series of indiscriminate car bombings that killed hundreds of civilians.

    “The objective of this massive ‘terrorist’ car bombing campaign was to ‘sow chaos’ amongst the Palestinian & Lebanese civilian population” and, in 1981-82, to provoke the PLO into resorting to ‘terrorism,’ thus providing Israel with an excuse to invade Lebanon.

    “The FLLF operation is described in great details in Bergman’s book. His account is based solely on first hand accounts from Israeli officials involved in the operation or who were aware of it at the time. It is also described in detail in my article here [in Mondoweiss in May: The remarkable disappearing act of Israel’s car-bombing campaign in Lebanon or: What we (do not) talk about when we talk about ‘terrorism’].”

  100. anon[254] • Disclaimer says:

    ‘Mr. Netanyahu’s exit, should it materialize, may halt this dangerous shift and provide a new Israeli government the opportunity to reclaim broad bipartisan support in the United States. ”
    NYT editorial board

    Broad bipartisan support to do what ? Get the same deals as Netanyahu got but this time with less racist words less bombastic behaviors less menacing behaviors?

    NYT is cultivating a mindset among the ‘liberal Democrats” that will argue itself and play out this way — –Israel has rejected Netanyahu’s behaviors, dishonesty ,corruption, pro Trump and anti Democrat attitudes. We need to embrace the new PM and give peace a chance and move on beyond Golan Heights , Syrian airspace violations or west bank settlements o Gaza wars or annexation of Jerusalem.

    Peace message from Israel to the world through NYT.

  101. @Corvinus

    ‘I would agree that America has engaged in aggressive wars in the Middle East. Whether it be criminal or on Israel’s behalf is up for fierce debate…’

    What do you see as the distinction between the two?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  102. @Rich

    Winning a war on the ground in Russia is harder than winning in Afghanistan where Empires go to die.

    • Replies: @Rich
  103. MEexpert says:
    @A123

    Why is the Saudi method of executing their death penalty an issue?

    Looks like you approve this method, just like you approve Israeli soldiers executing innocent palestinian women and children.

    Could it be that you are trying to distract from Ayatollah Khameni’s indefensible behaviour?

    What indefensible behavior?

    At least MBS is trying to fix some of the mistakes made by prior Saudi leaders.

    Good way to fix those mistakes by making blunders. Like Khashogi murder and Yemeni war.

    Ayatollah Khameni has both a nuclear weapons program and a ballistic missile program approaching ICBM capability. Nuclear power plants for electricity use 3-5% enriched uranium. There are no ‘non-military’ uses for hundreds of kilos of of highly enriched uranium (20%+).

    I suppose you have this information first hand. Either you are a mole in Iran Nuclear programs or a stupid fool that can dream up this things like your master Netanyahu coming up with those cartoons at the UN.

    Do you really want a nuclear arms race among Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and possibly others?

    Of course not! Only Israel has the right to nuclear weapon for which she lies and lies and lies.

    Iran, under the previous Ayatollah, wrecked Lebanon by funding Shia violence and undermining the legitimate Lebanese goverment.

    Don’t you choke on these lies. How do you make up these stories? Don’t you know that people on these fora are smarter than you give them credit for. They know these facts better than you. Hezbollah is Israeli creation that turned on Israeli, so Israel blames others.

    Don’t worry about Iran’s past mistakes. BTW, they have had only two post revolution supreme leaders. Worry about past mistakes by Israeli leaders that are coming back to haunt them. Pretty soon, Israel will find all herself all alone and will have to fight her own battle. Then the world will see how brave the Israeli soldiers are. There will mass exodus to the US from Israel.

  104. Rich says:
    @davidgmillsatty

    I agree that a ground invasion of Russia, especially while fighting a two front war, has been shown to be a difficult task. Of course, in WW1 the Germans forced the Russians to surrender, so there is that, right? In this instance, however, I was referring to a war against Red China in 1950 when the Chicoms sent troops to assist the brutal N Korean communists.

  105. @anon

    Good takes, Dis. Millennium Challenge 2002 was a giveaway, that 250 million split neatly between the Big Three consulting firms in the Tyson’s Corner corridor. But that was computer time and consulting. The real expense was the tie-up of masses of expensive Pentagon and defense-industry brainiacs and the think-tanks who were also consulted, human infrastructure that represents sunk cost. Consulting fees are extra, hence, the $250 million

    That they changed conditions forcing different outcomes to justify the vast expense of surface forces, especially Naval aviation surprised no one and everyone in Tyson’s Corner kept their traps shut. Their very existence depends on maintaining for the general public the mirage that these mighty armadas are necessary when they’ve known since the 70s they were merely targets against a real Navy. A tripwire. Not worth the expense in real terms, but then, it’s great business. Win the war, lose the war, get paid anyway.

  106. Smucker says:
    @Paul

    And seems to listen to no one but Neocons

  107. @Colin Wright

    “I don’t think it’s that simple.”

    Of course it’s that simple. Orange clown and his handlers have calculatingly burnt every bridge and have engaged in a series of escalating provocations in pursuit of a pretext, which Iran has so far skillfully denied them. In light of all that’s happened so far, your implication that team orange clown is not trying to start a war is absurd on its face.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  108. Smucker says:
    @anon

    If they’ve got something like that on him, why the media hate fest? Why the endless Deep State “operations” to frame him?

  109. Anon[997] • Disclaimer says:
    @A123

    Wow!!

    Israel was born with the skill of projecting its own devilish devious impulses on other .

    NYT ‘s article on Iran proves that even an indirect connection to Zionism is going to poison and distort the minds of the best .

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  110. @Renoman

    why would America defend them?

    Americans have zero interest in defending Saudi Arabia, but sre Trump does. Because Saudi sheikhs are heavily invested in Trump properties, including owning the entire 38th floor of the Trump Tower. And who knows what else they own since he refuses to make his tax records public? If not for Saudi investors who also purchased his expensive yacht creditors were in the process of seizing, and had not Jewish banksters bailed him out of 4 bankruptcies, he would be flat broke and another no-body.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  111. @Harold Smith

    ‘Of course it’s that simple. Orange clown and his handlers have calculatingly burnt every bridge and have engaged in a series of escalating provocations in pursuit of a pretext, which Iran has so far skillfully denied them. In light of all that’s happened so far, your implication that team orange clown is not trying to start a war is absurd on its face.’

    You attribute too much power to ‘Orange clown’ in all this.

    Whatever his limitations otherwise, it’s my belief that Trump is genuinely uninterested in the Middle East, and would happily leave Iran to its own devices — if it were up to him.

    However, it’s not up to him. He has sponsors he must satisfy. Sheldon Adelson would be the most obvious.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  112. @Colin Wright

    “You attribute too much power to ‘Orange clown’ in all this.”

    Sheesh; not this puerile assertion again. Anyone who makes this absurd claim has to explain why Obama didn’t: (1) pull out of the JCPOA agreement with Iran; (2) withdraw from the INF treaty with Russia; (3) move the embassy to Jerusalem; (4) give Syrian land to Israel; (5) start a self-destructive trade war with China; (6) try to starve Venezuela into submission; (7) arm the rogue government in Ukraine; etc., etc., etc, etc.

    Your messiah, orange clown, is flirting with WW3 and the possibility of planetary extinction, apparently without the slightest hint of meaningful political opposition; it takes some serious power to do that, don’t you think?

    “Whatever his limitations otherwise, it’s my belief that Trump is genuinely uninterested in the Middle East, and would happily leave Iran to its own devices — if it were up to him.”

    ROTFL! That comment doesn’t need a substantive reply as it’s self-refuting. And I’m not going to waste anymore time arguing absurdities with you.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  113. @Harold Smith

    ‘Sheesh; not this puerile assertion again…’

    That’s the end of that.

  114. @Anon

    ‘NYT ‘s article on Iran proves that even an indirect connection to Zionism is going to poison and distort the minds of the best .’

    ‘The best?’

    Thems war the days. I’d say your perceptions of the NYT are about ten years behind the times.

  115. Incitatus says:
    @turtle

    “No doubt those are “Nazi” images also, since all of us of German heritage have an “inner Nazi” just yearning to be born, eh?”

    “Eh’? Really, turtle? Do you have an inner Nazi that says: “the Nazis were correct about many things. Many things indeed.?”

    If so, what things? And why do you need a Norwegian artist in occupation to illustrate them?

    Why did Germany garrison Norway (population 3 million) with 400,000 troops (more than 300,000 in occupied France population 42 million) through the end of war? Was it because Norwegians were kindred Aryans?

    My German blood traces to 576 CE. My Norse blood to 854 (what is now Norway), 879 (what is now Denmark), bef 863 (what is now Sweden). I can assure you, I have no inner Nazi. Do you?

    I’ve spent decades reading to discover the cause of obvious NSDAP criminal depravity, the greatest disaster to befall German states in a thousand years. First perpetrated on ordinary Germans. That’s a main focus.

    Rurik is a very talented poster, fluid with graphics borrowed without attribution, publication date, context. Propaganda, not scholarship. I enjoy reading him, but regret his lack of balance. He writes one-off op-eds. Does he ever present context, the other side? Don’t think so.

    Another florid Rurik series featured Christian Templar imagery exciting Crusader tradition. My Frankish roots go back to 263 CE, include fondateurs du Temple et chefs de Croisade (Antioche, Édessa, Jérusalem). Some good, some bad. Millions have the same provenance. I’m cognizant of that “heritage” of which you seem sensitive, the very ‘heritage’ Rurik uses (without attribution or context) to fuel his posts. Thus my question.

    It’s easy, fish in a barrel. Ask him (yourself) what “Nazis were correct about”.

    Still waiting for the name Norwegian artist. Production/publication date? What happened him/her 1940-45.

    “Got to go. we’re having a seance tonight, in which the object will be to contact Heinrich Himmler, learn his detailed plans for the expansion of Wewelsburg Castle.”

    Der treue Heinrich? Well done. Agriculture degree 1922, lands his only private industry job (thanks to his father, rigid Bavarian grammar school teacher, suck-up to royals, knew a plant manager) 1 Sep 1922 as an ‘assistant administrator’ in an artificial fertilizer plant. Ersatz Manure. What could be more appropriate? Redundant late 1923. One year in private industry. His true avocation? Marches, rabble-rousing, sedition, murder, terror, thug organizer (he never personally engaged in combat – that was everybody else’s job).

    Ask Heinie what this was all about:

    “The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don’t ask for their love; only for their fear.”
    – Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler [Alberto Rivas “Visions of Reality – A Study of Abnormal Perception and Behavior” p.162]

    Agree with that turtle? How about:

    [MORE]

    “We live in an era of the ultimate conflict with Christianity. It is part of the mission of the SS to give the German people in the next half century the non-Christian ideological foundations on which to lead and shape their lives…”
    – Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler 1937 [Peter Longerich ‘Heinrich Himmler’ p.270]

    “Like every deprivation of liberty, the concentration camp is certainly a harsh and tough measure. Hard productive labour, a regular way of life, exceptional cleanliness in living conditions and personal hygiene, a faultless diet, firm but fair treatment, instruction in learning how to work again, and opportunities to acquire a trade, are the training methods. The motto which stands above these caps reads: There is only one road to freedom. Its milestones are called: Obedience, Diligence, Honesty, Orderliness, Cleanliness, Sobriety, Truthfulness, Self-Sacrifice and Love of the Fatherland.”
    – Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler 1939 Speech [Burleigh ‘The Third Reich’ p.201]

    Fast forward to 1944:

    “It is better that a young cohort dies and the nation is saved than I spare a young cohort and a whole nation of 80-90 million people dies out.”
    – Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler explaining why “to send 15-year-olds to the front” after announcing the Volkssturm 25 Sep 1944

    “The city [Warsaw] must completely disappear from the surface of the earth and serve only as a transport station for the Wehrmacht. No stone can remain standing. Every building must be razed to its foundation.”
    -Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler 17 Oct 1944 staff conference [85% of the city is deliberately destroyed]

    “Nothing can be defended so outstandingly as a major city or a field of rubble…Here we must defend…the country…The saying ‘till the last cartridge and bullet’ must be no idle phrase, but a fact. It must be our sacred duty to ensure that the sorrowful and costly exemplar which Warsaw gave us is enacted by the Wehrmacht and Volkssturm for every German city which has the misfortune to be encircled and besieged.”
    -Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler Oct 1944 [Stargardt ‘The German War’ p.459]

    “If there is any suspicion that a soldier has absenting himself from his unit with a view to deserting and thus impairing the fighting strength of his unit one member of the soldier’s family (wife) will be shot.”
    – Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler order as the Ardennes Offensive fails 6 Jan 1945;

    “Every male in a house where a white flag appears must be shot. Not a moment must be wasted in executing these measures. By male persons who must be considered responsible for their actions this means everyone aged fourteen years and upwards.”
    – General Order Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler 9 Apr 1945 [Antony Beevor ‘The Fall of Berlin 1945’ p.174]

    What happened turtle? Rabble-rouser, terror-master, exterminator Hitler suck-up Heinie turned on his own kin (Germans) and gleefully ordered summary justice on ‘defeatists’ and their families (Sippenhaft)? How did he end up arrested masquerading as Sergeant Heinrich Hitzinger? Was that a mistake? Didn’t he want to fight to the death? Didn’t he have a lot of other Germans killed for not fighting to the death?

    Ask him in your séance. Give us a clue.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  116. @Incitatus

    Everything you think you know about Nazism is war, or post-war propaganda delivered to you by a 100% Jewish owned propaganda media masquerading as a news and intertainment media. Prove me wrong.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  117. turtle says:

    Do you have an inner Nazi

    AFAIK, NO.
    As you may be aware, there are those who conflate German heritage with NS leanings.
    I spent a portion of my childhood listening to that sort of horse manure from ignorant American schoolchildren in the 1950s. So, yeah, I am sensitive about it on a personal level. The real question there, of course, is where they learned that sort of nonsense (their parents? mass media? who knows?). And of course there is the usual prattle from some so-called academics and other self-styled “intellectuals” decrying the (implied defective) “German national character.” No doubt you have heard these things, and as an intelligent, educated human, are sufficiently bright, and sufficiently well informed, to treat them with the derision they deserve. Others are either not that competent (perhaps excusable) or have their own agenda, for which “national character assassination” well suits their purpose, whatever that may be (inexcusable, but unfortunately a fact of life.).

    My German blood traces to 576 CE. My Norse blood to 854 (what is now Norway), 879 (what is now Denmark), bef 863 (what is now Sweden).

    I am impressed you are able to trace your family history back that far. In my own family, a 2nd cousin was able to trace our family back to Germany in the 1600s (church records, etc.) , which seemed to me a major achievement. Genealogy was his hobby in retirement.
    Three takeaways:
    1) People were born, lived their lives, and died, for the most part, without traveling more than, say, 20 miles from their home town.
    2) Women had large families, but very many children died in childhood, and women in childbirth.
    3) In my family there was not much originality in naming children. Lots of boys named Johann.
    I am 4th gen. German-American on both sides. To the New World in 1870s. Rhineland near Mannheim on father’s side, Black Forest on mother’s. Not pure bred, though. Stubborn Dutch grandmother, and English yeomen in the colonies almost since American Revolution round it out. No one of note, just honest, hardworking people. My given name rhymes with “German,” so I have no problem with “H_ the German,” but a REAL problem with “Nazi” tacked on the end (by ignorant children long ago, not by adults).

    I’ve spent decades reading to discover the cause of obvious NSDAP criminal depravity,

    I applaud your scholarship. As a novice, I must follow your lead, and that of others.

    the greatest disaster to befall German states in a thousand years.

    Agree without reservation.

    First perpetrated on ordinary Germans.

    Yes.

    That’s a main focus.

    Respect, and applause.
    NO offense intended to our Jewish friends (and I can say honestly that I have counted a select few Jewish people among my closest friends, at various times in my life – the key is intelligence, from which all else flows). That said, it is my considered opinion that focusing on “the Holocaust” (crimes against Jews by the Nazis) impedes and distracts from a deeper understanding of the German national nightmare known as National Socialism. I do not wish to belabor this point in this response. Perhaps you agree, (or not). Matters very little to me, either way, what you, or anyone else believes. Personally, I believe Germans are like any other people, and, scarily enough, the German nightmare could well repeat, perhaps with some variations, in many other populations, including our own.

    Heinie the chicken(shit) farmer?
    Worst P.O.S. the Nazis had, bar none.
    Probably responsible for many things for which his boss was blamed, I ‘d guess.
    Not impressive physically, or in any other way you might care to name.
    Would not have met height requirement of SS had minimum been set
    @ 5’-10″ instead of 5-9″, did not meet vision requirement in any case (20-20, no? No specs allowed, except for the boss). Bully who hid behind his organization. And as I like to say, ABAC (all bullies are cowards).

    With best regards,

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  118. Incitatus says:
    @Carroll Price

    “Everything you think you know about Nazism is war, or post-war propaganda delivered to you by a 100% Jewish owned propaganda media masquerading as a news and intertainment media. Prove me wrong.”

    Impressive. Please first tell me what I know about “Nazism is war, or post-war propaganda delivered to you by a 100% Jewish owned propaganda media” etc.”

    Then I’ll prove you wrong.

  119. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    Criminal does not automatically mean Israel, nor does Israel automatically mean criminal. It’s like you and others have a Pavlovian response to Jews…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  120. Corvinus says:
    @Herald

    “It might be of more direct concern to you, when the bombs actually hit Tel Aviv.”

    I’m not Jewish. I’m goy, pure (almond) goy.

  121. @Corvinus

    ‘…It’s like you and others have a Pavlovian response to Jews…’

    No…it is you and other Zionists who insistently conflate Israel with Judaism as a whole. To oppose Israel becomes to be anti-semitic.

    The logic is pathetic. Surely, to oppose Communism was not to hate Russians, nor was opposition to Nazism a demonstration that one was bigoted against Germans.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  122. Rurik says:
    @Incitatus

    Attribution is attribution. Theft is theft. Full stop.

    That’s doubleplus amazing, horse’s ass.

    I put the words in quotes, so that only a horse’s ass would think I’m “stealing” them.

    What a monumental asshole you are. No wonder Dr. G purged you. And he tolerates just about anything.

    If I write “Blessed are the Peacemakers”, do you need that attributed too?

    Did I miss that post?

    Umm.. you just quoted it, (asshole)

    If you quoted it, then presumably you read it.

    Am I not allowed to ask questions?

    Asking questions is one thing. Conducting yourself like an asshole- metaphorically wiping the forum with your rhetorical feces, is quite another.

    It’s a wonderful graphic. Norwegian? Name the artist. Production/publication date? What happened him/her 1940-45?

    when’s the last time he took a shit?

    God, but you’re a dufus.

    Be clear. You use a 20C graphic without attribution, no mention of the artist, to support your views. Who was the artist, what was the date?

    And you think acting like an asshole in this way, is going to further your cause?

    “My ‘talking points’ are supported by their own cogence…And the Nazis were correct about many things. Many things indeed.”

    Yes, anyone who’s followed you knows your belief

    That’s 100% right, horse’s ass.

    I’ve posted over a million words to this forum, over the years. My sentiments and sympathies are very well fleshed out by now.

    I despise liars and bullies. I especially despise liars and bullies who tell lies in the service of injustice and murder and genocide, so I am and always will be a vocal opponent of Zionism, as it’s practiced today.

    And as such, will continue to get harassed by vile little Zio-turds like yourself.

    ~ One wonders, is there anything more repulsive on this planet than an apologist for genocidal, Zionist Jewish supremacism, who goes around calling other people ‘Nazi’ ?

    As for whether or not the Nazis were indeed correct about many things..

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-understanding-world-war-ii/

    Suck on that.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  123. Rurik says:
    @follyofwar

    These assholes are NOT NeoConservatives, whatever that is supposed to mean. They are NeoLIBERAL hegemonists. Trotskyite revolutionaries.

    ~ genocidal Jewish supremacists..

    are their any other kind?

  124. Rurik says:
    @Corvinus

    “But to the rest of us, it’s quite obvious that America has been engaged in criminal aggressive wars in the Middle East on Israel’s behalf…”

    I would agree that America has engaged in aggressive wars in the Middle East. Whether it be criminal or on Israel’s behalf is up for fierce debate.

    You and horse’s ass should get a room.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  125. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “No…it is you and other Zionists…”

    Except I’m not a Zionist. I’m an American man who makes his own decisions about race and culture. I get it. It’s easier for you to simply label anyone you disagree with a Jew or Jew lover or Jew supporter. That way, you really don’t have to think very hard.

    “To oppose Israel becomes to be anti-semitic.”

    According to Who/Whom?

    “The logic is pathetic. Surely, to oppose Communism was not to hate Russians, nor was opposition to Nazism a demonstration that one was bigoted against Germans.”

    Nice strawman you erected. I never directly made, nor implied, those sentiments.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  126. Corvinus says:
    @Rurik

    Thanks for the deflection. I will ask again.

    What efforts are you currently undertaking other than lamenting on a blog that will expose this apparent corruption to the rest of the American people? Do you not have a duty as a patriot to get on your soapbox and travel from coast to coast to inform our citizens of this menace?

    Otherwise, are you not contributing to this continuing body count by our supposed Jewish oppressors refusing to offer a modicum of resistance, just like the Minutemen of yore? Has not the Trojan Horse has already spilled its contents, and we are in the process of being overrun?

    What are you waiting for?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  127. Rurik says:
    @Corvinus

    What efforts are you currently undertaking

    At the moment, rhetorically pissing in your face is what I find most entertaining.

    life is short, dude. You really have to get some fun out of it, or what’s the point?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  128. @Corvinus

    ‘…Except I’m not a Zionist. I’m an American man who makes his own decisions about race and culture. I get it. It’s easier for you to simply label anyone you disagree with a Jew or Jew lover or Jew supporter. That way, you really don’t have to think very hard…’

    You really don’t get it. I called you a Zionist. I neither claimed you were a Jew, nor a Jew lover, nor a Jew supporter.

    It would appear that it is you who is refusing to think…or at least read.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  129. Corvinus says:
    @Rurik

    “At the moment, rhetorically pissing in your face is what I find most entertaining.”

    More like you are rolling in your own soiled undergarments. Typical that you bitch and moan about the decline of America, yet do not seemingly lift a finger to do something about it. What about Nero and his fiddle?

    “You really have to get some fun out of it…”

    Fun that white America is being apparently birthed out of existence?
    Fun that white men are allegedly deemed expendable?

    You truly have an odd sense of humor.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  130. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “You really don’t get it. I called you a Zionist. I neither claimed you were a Jew, nor a Jew lover, nor a Jew supporter.”

    You could have fooled me. Regardless, I am not a Zionist. But feel free to vigorously depress your default button if that is going to soothe you.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  131. @Corvinus

    ‘Regardless, I am not a Zionist. ‘

    If you think Israel has a right to exist, you’re a Zionist. I’m betting you’re a Zionist.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  132. Incitatus says:
    @turtle

    Thanks for your interesting reply, turtle.

    “there are those who conflate German heritage with NS leanings. I spent a portion of my childhood listening to that sort of horse manure…”

    No question. Anyone lacking the standard WASP surname knows the feeling. The ‘how do you spell/pronounce’ routine, repeated all too frequently. Childhood (nit)wits hawk caricatures that demean and bully. Adults that do the same are simply bigots, little different than those that wear white robes and hoods, enjoy cross-burnings and carry coiled rope in the trunk.

    “there is the usual prattle from some so-called academics and other self-styled “intellectuals” decrying the (implied defective) “German national character.”

    ‘Social sciences’ seem the perfect venue for such talentless drivel. Don’t agree with it. Quite the opposite. I esteem Germans, Germany, my roots. What could be better than JS Bach’s Matthew Passion, Beethoven, Brahms, Mozart, Haydn, Mahler, Dürer, the Cranachs, Holbein, Klimpt, Gutenberg, Goethe, Schiller, Nietzsche, Mann, Remarque, Schinkel, and so on?

    That’s why Germany’s 20C journey is so inexplicably tragic. That’s the puzzle worth solving. How did it happen? Why did it happen?

    Why is it important? Because the USA is prone to the same imperial mistakes and seems well embarked on a course that will take us there. Iraq 2003/Patriot Act fair warning.

    I have a postcard ‘Köln 1945’ I view every day. Aerial of Köln Dom (apex of human achievement) and a city (and hauptbahnhof) otherwise leveled. How stupid are we humans!

    https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=köln+dom+1945&qpvt=köln+dom+1945&FORM=IGRE

    Germans were/are/always will be an extraordinary people. Was there foreign competition prior to WW1-WW2? Of course! When has there not been? Pass the blame around, by all means, but Germany pulled the trigger (invaded neighbors) WW1 and WW2. Why? Isn’t that the question? The UR ‘everybody else did it’ Dolchstoßlegende II mime seems embarrassingly inadequate. Especially when one considers Dolchstoßlegende I in 1919 blamed military revolts against incompetent leadership on the home front, Jews, Freemasons. A ‘Get out of Jail card’ for the corrupt scum-bags like Wilhelm II, Hindenburg and Ludendorff.

    The mechanics of how NSDAP leadership was empowered and sustained is THE cautionary tale. Heinie and Clubfoot Joe, Heß, Speer, Bormann and the rest. All careerist suck-ups to windbag Austrian Mr. Big. A guy that never held a job in the private sector, glided out of military service as a spy on Bavarian political parties.

    But then, you know that.

    “Genealogy was his hobby in retirement.”

    Confess the same. First with my dad (his late hobby as well). Most roots traced to ±1500. A noble gateway led to the rest (263 CE). If one seeks distinction, It’s nonsense. Millions can same the same.

    “People were born, lived their lives, and died, for the most part, without traveling more than, say, 20 miles from their home town”

    Maybe. But you may sell them short.

    Was surprised at the travel (Rome, Jérusalem, Santiago de Compostela, etc.). Usually by oath-breakers and penitents.

    Take Foulques III Nerra comte d’Anjou (972-1040; my 29G-GF). He made three pilgrimages to Terre-Sainte (1002, 1008, 1038). Why? Because he was a homicidal maniac repeatedly caught (burned his wife/ my grandmother to death Dec 999). Killed a lot of others.

    Path to penitent paridise: 4,843k kms. Anjou to Jérusalem. Hard trip. Even today.

    Stay well, Turtle

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @turtle
  133. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “If you think Israel has a right to exist, you’re a Zionist. I’m betting you’re a Zionist.”

    I am in favor of a holy land that has a Jewish state as well as a Palestinian state. Unfortunately, for a host of political reasons, there is but one state. As you know, Zionism is the nationalist movement of the Jewish people that espouses the re-establishment of and support for a Jewish state in the territory defined as the historic land of Israel. Since I am not Jewish, and am not part of this nationalist movement, I am not a Zionist in this context.

    But if calling me a Zionist improves your spirits, then go right ahead. It wouldn’t be accurate, but at least you would feel better about yourself. Don’t say that I don’t care about your well-being.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  134. @Corvinus

    Zionism is a movement whose goal was and is to establish a Jewish state in Palestine (although at times they denied that). You state:

    ‘I am in favor of a holy land that has a Jewish state as well as a Palestinian state.’

    You’re a Zionist.

    ‘…But if calling me a Zionist improves your spirits, then go right ahead. It wouldn’t be accurate.’

    As we’ve just demonstrated, it’s roughly as accurate as stating that if a=b, and b=c, then a=c.

    Nice doing business with you. Any other transactions?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  135. @Incitatus

    ‘…Germans were/are/always will be an extraordinary people…’

    You may like this quote from de Gaulle.

    At some point in the post-war era, he visited Stalingrad. While overlooking the Volga, on the literal edge of Europe, in the context of the Second World War, he murmured, ‘what a people.’

    His aide assumed he meant the Russians. De Gaulle corrected him: ‘no, I meant the Germans.’

    It was incredible, when you think about it. Forget about arguing about the morality or immorality of it all for a minute. Just the sheer magnitude of the eruption. Has there ever been anything like 1933-1945?

    If there have been others, they have been rare. To be possessed with so much energy and idealism, to be so overcome with zeal for a cause, to fight so desperately for it, almost literally to the last round…

  136. Incitatus says:
    @Rurik

    “That’s doubleplus amazing, horse’s ass.I put the words in quotes, so that only a horse’s ass would think I’m “stealing” them. What a monumental asshole you are. No wonder Dr. G purged you. And he tolerates just about anything.”

    Well, I am indeed humbled, Rurik. Admire your posts, though from time-to-time I may have questions. Forgive me.

    PG? Pulling down a government pension for failure to protect us, adding to that a tax-exempt ‘educational’ 501c3 slush fund to publish op-eds blaming Jews for CIA failure? Kismet, eh Rurik? Never mind, don’t think twice.

    “Asking questions is one thing. Conducting yourself like an asshole- metaphorically wiping the forum with your rhetorical feces, is quite another.”

    Well, what’s that mean, Rurik? “Rhetorical feces”? Please quote an example, give us hint.

    “when’s the last time he took a shit? God, but you’re a dufus”

    Sorry. Lost you there. Who’s “he”?

    “That’s 100% right, horse’s ass. I’ve posted over a million words to this forum, over the years. My sentiments and sympathies are very well fleshed out by now.”

    Yes, indeed. A million words and (don’t be modest) some wonderful graphics. Stolen? Why not be honest?

    All are aware of your “sentiments and sympathies”. You’re a font of entertaining nonsense.

    What qualifications do you have that should convince normal souls to agree with you? Tell us.

    “And as such, will continue to get harassed by vile little Zio-turds like yourself.”

    “Harassed”? “Zio-turds” That’s the best you’ve got? Defensive, aren’t you? Sad.

    “the Nazis were indeed correct about many things”

    Please enumerate their accomplishments. Don’t omit enslaving/killing ordinary Germans and total defeat 1945

    “Suck on that.”

    Really? That’s the best you’ve got? Sad.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  137. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “You’re a Zionist.”

    No. I favor both the creation of a Jewish AND a Palestinian nation. There are a number of Jews who are opposed to such an arrangement. Remember, not every inhabitant of Israel is Jewish; there are also many non-Jews living in Israel. And not all Jewish Israelis are ‘settlers’ who want to conquer more and more Palestinian land. There are also Jews who desire a Palestinian state alongside Israel as a solution to the rift. The “true Zionist”, according to the Who/Whom paradigm, would be opposed to such an arrangement.

    It is important here to be precise.

    “As we’ve just demonstrated, it’s roughly as accurate as stating that if a=b, and b=c, then a=c.”

    No, more like you trying to convince yourself that 1+1 = 3.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  138. turtle says:
    @Incitatus

    Thanks for your interesting reply,

    And yours as well.
    I look forward to future conversations.
    Stay well, hoss.

  139. Rurik says:
    @Incitatus

    from time-to-time I may have questions.

    Like I said, questions are one thing.

    PG? Pulling down a government pension for failure to protect us, adding to that a tax-exempt ‘educational’ 501c3 slush fund to publish op-eds blaming Jews for CIA failure?

    ‘blaming Jews’, eh?

    I’ve followed Dr. G. for a while now, and I don’t ever recall him writing anything in condemnation of ‘the Jews’. In fact, he’s always gone to pains to point out he doesn’t, and never has tried to condemned all Jews.

    However, if anyone is curious as to the motivation for America’s insane and disastrous Eternal Wars in the Middle East- to benefit Zionist, Jewish supremacists, then few are more eloquent in spelling out the treachery and disloyalty of some Jews than Dr. G. Just as the article I posted for you points out how another heroic truth-teller, Charles Lindbergh, tried to warn America ((who)) was behind the push for war in the last century.

    Some people feel like it’s always beyond the pale to blame ‘the Jews’ for anything.

    Hollywood sewage = not the Jews fault!

    Genocide in Palestine = Not the Jews fault!

    Serial wars in the Middle East to benefit Israel = not the Jews fault!

    And on and on, you see?

    So, (you’ll excuse me if I call you horse’s ass – with a nod to JS) – your tiresome attacks on Dr. G. for simply telling the important truth, has become impertinent.

    “Rhetorical feces”? Please quote an example, give us hint.

    =

    “some wonderful graphics. Stolen? Why not be honest?”

    “the Nazis were indeed correct about many things”

    Please enumerate their accomplishments. Don’t omit enslaving/killing ordinary Germans and total defeat 1945

    I already have.

    They heroically fought the (((genocidal Bolsheviks))) from enslaving all of Europe and beyond.

    They repudiated (((global crony capitalism))) for the menace that is was, and is.

    They fought off the largest collective army of orcs (Red Army rapists, American GI rapists, et al, etc..) ever assembled by the forces of evil in the world, and strove to bring sanity to an insane Europe.

    That they lost, and half of Europe was doomed to commie slavery and genocide, is partly America’s fault, but partly their own.

    Like today’s Zionists, they too made the tragic mistake of considering themselves somehow superior, or ‘exceptional. They doomed themselves with hubris, and are partly responsible for the horrors that were unleashed upon Germany and beyond.

    Anytime a people start to delude themselves that they’re somehow better than others, and more entitled to the blessings of life, then as surely as night follows day, those people will experience a hard comeuppance.

    The Nazis were racialist and arrogant, and they suffered for it.

    Many Americans today delude themselves that they’re somehow more ‘exceptional’ than the innocent people the ZUS military is grinding into the dirt the world over. And that bravado and arrogance is going to bite them in the arse, and many will deserve their fate.

    Providence has a tenacious way of dealing with hubris in the end, and often the consequences of hubris exceed even the crimes and atrocities of the guilty.

    The Nazis were racialists in the Darwinian sense, and they got blowback for it.

    The Zionists, however- are racialists in the Talmudic sense. They believe god himself has ordained their global superiority over their victims. And they behave accordingly.

    Compared to a Zionist Jewish supremacist, a Nazi is a neophyte. Jewish supremacists consider themselves to be divine, and in the grand scheme of things, so too will be their retribution.

    • Replies: @turtle
    , @Incitatus
  140. Rurik says:
    @Corvinus

    Fun that white America is being apparently birthed out of existence?

    gloat all you want Corvy, but whitey is going to be around for a long time.

    Far beyond yours and my expiration dates. And eventually he’s going to have his ‘dog in the corner’ moment, and turn on his tormentors.

    Yellow Vests, Brexit and Trump are just the nascent grumblings.

    A warning shot over the bow.

    Western civ. has been around for thousands of years, and it’s not going to go ‘gently into that goodnight’ just because of Tim Wise and Noel Ignatiev and AOC (and you ; ) want it to. (heh, heh)

    We have every reason to have fun and laugh at the pathetic efforts of you and your army of butt-hurts, all demanding we lay down and die.

    [not] sorry to disappoint.

    Life is a rollick, and the horizons are glorious as far as the eye can see. (already Trump has repudiated your Iran adventure ; )

    AI is going to take over at some point anyways, and be the ultimate repudiation of mediocrity the world has ever known. So don’t sweat it, Corv. Laugh and give a wry smile (or crestfallen grunt, as the case may be ; ) for what the future bodes. (heh, hehe)

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  141. turtle says:
    @Rurik

    Anytime a people start to delude themselves that they’re somehow better than others, and more entitled to the blessings of life, then as surely as night follows day, those people will experience a hard comeuppance.

    No truer words were ever spoken.

  142. @Corvinus

    ‘No. I favor both the creation of a Jewish AND a Palestinian nation.’

    Please. You can be in favor of whatever else you like. Be for bike lanes in your community.

    You can still be a Zionist. If you support a Jewish state in Palestine, you’re a Zionist. That’s what the word means.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  143. @turtle

    And if Wilson hadn’t dragged the US into WWI, there would have been a negotiated peace, no USSR, no Hitler, no holocaust and no cold war.

    • Replies: @turtle
    , @Rurik
  144. anon[117] • Disclaimer says:

    https://dailycaller.com/2013/08/29/verify-chemical-weapons-use-before-unleashing-the-dogs-of-war/

    According to these officers ( former military officers with access to the original intelligence reports), who served in top positions in the United States, Britain, France, Israel, and Jordan, a Syrian military communication intercepted by Israel’s famed Unit 8200 electronic intelligence outfit has been doctored so that it leads a reader to just the opposite conclusion reached by the original report.

    The doctored report was leaked to a private Internet-based newsletter that boasts of close ties to the Israeli intelligence community, and led to news reports that the United States now had firm evidence showing that the Syrian government had ordered the chemical weapons attack on August 21 against a rebel-controlled suburb of Damascus.
    The doctored report was picked up on Israel’s Channel 2 TV on Aug. 24, then by Focus magazine in Germany, the Times of Israel, and eventually by The Cable in Washington, DC.

    According to the doctored report, the chemical attack was carried out by the 155th Brigade of the 4th Armored Division of the Syrian Army, an elite unit commanded by Maher al-Assad, the president’s brother.
    However, the original communication intercepted by Unit 8200 between a major in command of the rocket troops assigned to the 155th Brigade of the 4th Armored Division, and the general staff, shows just the opposite.
    By-
    Kenneth Timmerman President, Foundation for Democracy in Iran

    Why do we see the repeats of the same crimes again and again? Because the son of the bitches from BBC CNN NYT Fox get away with lying. That’s why.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  145. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “You can still be a Zionist. If you support a Jewish state in Palestine, you’re a Zionist. That’s what the word means.”

    If you ONLY support a Jewish state in Palestine, you’re a Zionist. Since I support both a Jewish AND Palestinian homeland in the same religiously historic area, I am other than a Zionist.

    Why are you fixated on Zionism and Jews? Are they under your bed? In your closet?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  146. Corvinus says:
    @Rurik

    “gloat all you want Corvy, but whitey is going to be around for a long time.”

    No gloating on my part, my dear white friend.

    “And eventually he’s going to have his ‘dog in the corner’ moment, and turn on his tormentors.”

    What are YOU waiting for?

    “A warning shot over the bow.”

    Tough talk from an armchair warrior.

    • Troll: Rurik
  147. Rurik says:
    @Kolya Krassotkin

    And if Wilson hadn’t dragged the US into WWI, there would have been a negotiated peace, no USSR, no Hitler, no holocaust and no cold war.

    He didn’t just drag us into the war (he promised and was elected to keep us out of), he also betrayed America to its worst enemies when he authorized the Fed, on Christmas Eve in 1913.

    The very ‘den of snakes’ central bankers that our founders and Andrew Jackson risked their lives to free America from their demonic, Satanic grip.

    And he also facilitated Trotsky’s travel with suitcases of cash to Russia, to foment the Bolshevik terror, that would engulf the Western world in a civilizational conflagration.

    And, of course he came up with his ruse of Fourteen Points, to trick Germany into laying down their arms at the Armistice. Thereby facilitating the starvation betrayal of Germany and forcing Germany to sign away the German people over to cruel slavery. So that the (((Weimar regime)) could use Germany’s children as sex toys.

    Woodrow Wilson goes down in history as the most execrable traitor this nation and our civilization has ever suffered, and he very well may have doomed us all to an Orwellian dystopia.

    All to feed his vanity.

  148. @Corvinus

    ‘…If you ONLY support a Jewish state in Palestine, you’re a Zionist. Since I support both a Jewish AND Palestinian homeland in the same religiously historic area, I am other than a Zionist.’

    Well, this kind of begs the question. Why should there be anything other than a Palestinian state in Palestine? If I decide I should get half of your house, would you regard that as a reasonable proposition?

    ‘…Why are you fixated on Zionism and Jews? Are they under your bed? In your closet?’

    They are in my country, and forcing it to serve their evil.

    As I have explained before, it’s really quite simple. There may well be all kinds of teenagers out there, stealing cars and raping girls.

    That’s regrettable. If one of those teenagers is my son, it’s incumbent upon me to do something about it.

    China and Burma do bad things, and that’s deplorable. Israel, we can rein in any time we choose. We could pull the plug on that place tomorrow. It’s our crime.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  149. @anon

    ‘According to these officers ( former military officers with access to the original intelligence reports), who served in top positions in the United States, Britain, France, Israel, and Jordan, a Syrian military communication intercepted by Israel’s famed Unit 8200 electronic intelligence outfit has been doctored so that it leads a reader to just the opposite conclusion reached by the original report…’

    I never did look at it all carefully, but I recall something similar when Syria first allegedly ordered chemical weapons to be used.

    The gist was that the British monitoring station in Cyprus should have picked up the alleged communications — but didn’t. What they picked up was Assad and high command saying ‘what the fuck? Who ordered this?’

    I speculated at the time that Israel managed to bribe and/or otherwise somehow suborn some intermediate commander into firing off the chemical weapons.

    That’s not proven — but it would certainly fit.

  150. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    “Why should there be anything other than a Palestinian state in Palestine?”

    It has been and will continue to be a highly contested region between two religious groups who historically have opposed one other. Both claim legitimate ownership. Both should have the opportunity to live there, with fences.

    “If I decide I should get half of your house, would you regard that as a reasonable proposition?”

    Decide on what basis, on what claim?

    “They are in my country…”

    And what country is that again?

    “and forcing it to serve their evil.”

    What you are conditioned to believe or think is evil. Anything else that is construed as good or just, chances are those things are ignored or downplayed.

    “Israel, we can rein in any time we choose.”

    And who is this “we”?

  151. @Corvinus

    ‘It has been and will continue to be a highly contested region between two religious groups who historically have opposed one other. Both claim legitimate ownership. Both should have the opportunity to live there, with fences.’

    There is the minor detail that significant numbers of only one of these groups resided there.

    You could as easily argue — more easily argue — that we should go take it, as Christians. At the end of the day, the people actually living there — Muslims and Christians — obviously had a stronger claim than Jews who did not.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  152. @Corvinus

    ‘…What you are conditioned to believe or think is evil. Anything else that is construed as good or just, chances are those things are ignored or downplayed…’

    Now all you’re doing is defending Israel by insisting on no moral reference at all. How impressed would you be if Wally stopped claiming the Holocaust didn’t happen and just said it was fine because who’s to say gassing people isn’t fine?

    I think shooting unarmed children and lying about it, throwing people out of their homes, depriving them of any political rights in their own land — these things are objectively evil.

    ‘…And who is this “we”?’

    You and I.

  153. Corvinus says:
    @Colin Wright

    There is the minor detail that significant numbers of only one of these groups resided there.

    “You could as easily argue — more easily argue — that we should go take it, as Christians.”

    It may be an argument, but that may not be justified action nor a desired outcome.

    “At the end of the day, the people actually living there — Muslims and Christians — obviously had a stronger claim than Jews who did not.”

    Actually, all three groups have a strong claim. Your confirmation bias is showing again.

    “Now all you’re doing is defending Israel by insisting on no moral reference at all.”

    No, that would be you reading into things.

    “How impressed would you be if Wally stopped claiming the Holocaust didn’t happen and just said it was fine because who’s to say gassing people isn’t fine?”

    ?????

    “I think shooting unarmed children and lying about it, throwing people out of their homes, depriving them of any political rights in their own land — these things are objectively evil.”

    Indeed. We, as human beings, have a history of engaging in such heinous conduct. But that does not mean one entire group of people (Jews, whites) is more “evil” than another group of people (non-Jews, non-whites).

    “…And who is this “we”? You and I.”

    You and I as fellow white people? As fellow Americans? As fellow Christians? Be more specific.

  154. anon[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    you are becoming a bore, corvie.
    a one-note samba
    a one-trick Incitatus

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  155. @anon

    I apologise but I must correct you here, Corvinus has always been a bore.

  156. Incitatus says:
    @Rurik

    Thanks for your reply.

    “I’ve followed Dr. G. for a while now, and I don’t ever recall him writing anything in condemnation of ‘the Jews’. In fact, he’s always gone to pains to point out he doesn’t, and never has tried to condemned all Jews.”

    PG’s own words: “I discuss Jewish power nearly every week”. Naturally “nearly” all PG’s roads lead to Jews and their power.

    PG’s 501c3 tax-exempt lobbying charity ‘Council for the National Interest’ espouses “Working for Middle East Policies that Serve the American National Interest.” Most CNI topics relate to Israel, “Israel’ Fifth Column” etc.

    The record merits legal inquiry into foreign policy, 2002-03 neocons, Jews, Israel and more. No question.

    What’s missing? The (as geo might say) elephant in the room. An inquiry into what the CIA was doing (or NOT doing) during the last 50 years.

    Here’s the thing. Associating all ME evil with “Jewish Power” is excellent cover for incompetent American agencies and rapacious American industries that steered us into the mess, pulled the trigger. Remember Tenet’s “slam dunk”? Cheney’s KBR won the Iraq lottery and walked away with $39,000,000,000. Was that coincidence?

    PG’s credibility stems from 18 years in the CIA. The same CIA that failed to protect us in WTC 1993 and on 9/11/01.

    If 9/11 was Jews, shouldn’t the CIA have known that? Protected us from that? After all, the CIA helped “slam-dunk” Saddam and launch Iraq War 2003. The same CIA that destroyed democracy in Iran 1953 for BP, changed régimes in Guatemala 1954 for United Fruit, Bay-of-Pigs and Laos 1960, and so on (the many well-paid CIA FUs).

    Yet the CIA takes home a minimum of $15,000,000,000/year (published) for activities undisclosed. In fact, nobody really knows what they get (the black budget is rumored $50 billion plus). Nobody knows what they do. They probably don’t even know what they do.

    Not a recipe for responsible behavior. Or authentic alumni op-eds.

    Be honest, Rurik. You like Dr. Phil because he’s on point, week after week, with circular “Jewish power” tax-subsidized mimes.

    Yes, yes, it’s all the Jews! Makes you feel good? Those poor Lebensborn (tears/emotion gush here)!

    Does PG cover things like Genie Energy, former boss Woolsey and Cheney (standing neck-deep in corruption? Don’t think so. They’re not “Jewish Power”. They’re Wasps! No PG/UR percentage in that!

    “So, (you’ll excuse me if I call you horse’s ass – with a nod to JS) – your tiresome attacks on Dr. G. for simply telling the important truth, has become impertinent.”

    Call me whatever you want. Doesn’t bother me. “Impertinent”? LOL!

    You embrace any and all suck-ups to your tearful ‘Alex Jones’ level posts. Most admirable! Impartial advice? Keep your hand on your wallet, Rurik.

    “They [Nazis] heroically fought the (((genocidal Bolsheviks))) from enslaving all of Europe and beyond.”

    If fighting Bolsheviks was what Nazism was all about, why did Hitler ally with them 23 Aug 1939 in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact? Please tell us. Be specific.

    Why did Ludendorff fund Lenin with 40 million gold RM ($100 million) in 16 Apr 1917 and inject him into Russia? Ludendorff was Hitler’s mentor/patron 1923. Did Ludendorff expect blowback? Explain.

    “They [Nazis] repudiated (((global crony capitalism))) for the menace that is was, and is.”

    Indeed. They preferred local/national NSDAP crony ‘capitalism’. Sucking-up to a Führer with absolute power. Sky’s the limit!

    Max Amann, for example. Hitler’s Feldwebel/WW1 company sergeant, NSDAP business manager, then head of Eher Verlag the NSDAP publishing house. It owned 82+% of German newspapers after 1934. Paid (sight unseen) Göbbels a 200,000 RM advance and 100,000 RM per year (sight unseen) for the right to publish Clubfoot Joe’s Diary (unseen) post mortem.

    Crony Clubfoot had a wonderful living. Several primo-Mercedes (special rates), multiple villas, etc. Did he ever hold a job in private industry? Don’t think so. A failed author with a useless PhD. Is that “cronyism” Rurik?

    Crony Göring? The Four Year Plan? Plan Oldenburg? Looting Europe?

    Ag graduate Himmler spent a year working for an ‘artificial fertilizer [manure] producer’ 1922-23 before giving himself full time to rabble-rousing and terror. His slaves-for-profit in SS KZ camps? “Crony capitalism”?

    Krupp, Thyssen, Siemens, I.G. Farben, Dornier, Porsche, and the rest?

    But I’m no expert.

    “Compared to a Zionist Jewish supremacist, a Nazi is a neophyte. Jewish supremacists consider themselves to be divine, and in the grand scheme of things, so too will be their retribution.”

    Names and beliefs please. Ever been to the ME? Do you know a single Palestinian, a single Israeli?

    Don’t really care about either side, love that you use both to seed clouds for tears. Rurik’s chamber of horrors.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  157. Rurik says:
    @Incitatus

    Thanks for your reply.

    No problem.

    Since this thread looks like it’s about to drop off the edge of relevance, i’ll reply again, since you went to the trouble.

    What’s missing? The (as geo might say) elephant in the room. An inquiry into what the CIA was doing (or NOT doing) during the last 50 years.

    I suspect you’re (dishonestly?) mischaracterizing what Geo would describe as the ((very real)) elephant in the living room.

    Here’s the thing. Associating all ME evil with “Jewish Power” is excellent cover…
    Cheney’s KBR won the Iraq lottery and walked away with $39,000,000,000. Was that coincidence?

    I have said frequently that I consider Dick Cheney to be the worst of the worst. Far more sinister than even someone like Larry Silverstein, because at least Silberstein’s treachery was against the people he considers his enemies, (Gentiles), whereas Cheney’s treachery was against his own people and nation. The very people who paid him and empowered him and trusted him to keep them safe.

    Cheney belongs with McCain in the bowels of Dante’s n’th.

    PG’s credibility stems from 18 years in the CIA. The same CIA that failed to protect us in WTC 1993 and on 9/11/01.

    Nope. His credibility comes from his words.

    I don’t care if you spent the last 18 years as a neocon, so long as you redeemed your soul and are now telling the truth. Benjamin Freedman was likely involved in some unsavory shenanigans during his career, but in the end, he redeemed his soul with that speech.

    If 9/11 was Jews, shouldn’t the CIA have known that?

    They knew, and they assisted. No doubt with British intelligence and others.

    But that in no way implicates all the minions. Robert Mueller was charged with the cover up on 9/11 as head of the FBI, but that doesn’t implicate every FBI field officer in the nation.

    Where exactly the nexus of treason vs. honorable service happens, is actually something I’d be very curious to know.

    Consider the USS Liberty. Everyone involved was ordered to cover it all up. But that of course doesn’t implicate the survivors, at least one of whom went on to a career as a CIA officer. Does that mean we should blame him for the cowardly and treacherous attack?

    Yet the CIA takes home a minimum of $15,000,000,000/year (published) for activities undisclosed. In fact, nobody really knows what they get (the black budget is rumored $50 billion plus). Nobody knows what they do. They probably don’t even know what they do.

    Bingo!

    Don’t expect me to defend the CIA (or FBI or NSA or any of the so-called ‘sixteen intelligence agencies’) that are all as rotten and treasonous as can be – at the top.

    But that doesn’t mean every person working for them are also all rotten. Edward Snowden being the most celebrated example of a patriotic and decent person who worked for the NSA. (I wish there were more like him).

    Be honest, Rurik. You like Dr. Phil because he’s on point, week after week, with circular “Jewish power” tax-subsidized mimes.

    I am always honest and I like Dr. G. because he tells the brutal, salient and dire truth. And has the courage to do so.

    IF you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_if.htm

    Does PG cover things like Genie Energy, former boss Woolsey and Cheney (standing neck-deep in corruption? Don’t think so. They’re not “Jewish Power”. They’re Wasps! No PG/UR percentage in that!

    I’m sure he wouldn’t shrink from an honest discussion of all of that. Perhaps you’ve just given him an idea for his next article.

    (Woolsey is as bad as they get, and belongs with McCain as well).

    Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact? Please tell us. Be specific.

    Existential exigencies.

    Did Ludendorff expect blowback?

    Ditto

    Is that “cronyism” Rurik?

    I don’t care how many Mercedes he owned, and I’m not an apologist for the Nazi regime, but simply have an idea of how sinister their (existential enemies)) were, and are.

    Do you know a single Palestinian, a single Israeli?

    Plenty, actually.

    In fact I used to have some neighbors who were Israelis. (even had a romantic liaison with an Israeli gal who was a guest of theirs, at the time).

    One thing that struck me about them, was that one of them was an ethnic Palestinian, and he was the most rabid of them all in his denunciation of the Pals. Calling them cockroaches and other denigrating terms. I remember being amazed and appalled. Why would you speak that way of your own people?

    I suspect it was his way of proving his zio-cred among his fellow Israelis, but I was always struck by that.

    Don’t really care about either side,

    You’re lying of course.

    Rurik’s chamber of horrors.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  158. Incitatus says:
    @Rurik

    ‘What’s missing? The (as geo might say) elephant in the room. An inquiry into what the CIA was doing (or NOT doing) during the last 50 years.’
    “I suspect you’re (dishonestly?) mischaracterizing what Geo would describe as the ((very real)) elephant in the living room.”

    “Suspect”? Pleeeaaasse. Every elephant in geo’s Toronto room is ‘the Lobby’. Is it “dishonest” to compare aid to Israel ($3.8 billion) to the CIA budget ($15+ billion and then some, $50 billion in the black budget we’re not allowed to know about?) With the implied question why, magnitude of interest, aren’t responsible US agencies held to account? The question stands (geo avoids it too). Well done, Rurik!

    Scapegoating has great utility. Did GWB order Tommy Franks’ troops into Iraq 2003 assured by Tenet’s WMD ‘slam-dunk’ (our Gleiwitz) or did Israel/AIPAC/Jews issue the orders? If the latter, how did they do that? Be specific.

    How did Jews order German troops into rump Czechoslovakia, Poland, Memel in 1939? How did they order German invasions into Denmark, Norway, Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands, France 1940? North Africa, Yugoslavia, Greece, Crete, Eastern Poland, USSR 1941?

    Was Hitler co-opted by Jews who gave self-destructive orders? Or did Hitler use Jews, Freemasons, rival conservatives, social democrats, German Catholics, the Catholic Church, the Protestant Confessing Church, to scapegoat his mistakes? Think carefully.

    ‘PG’s credibility stems from 18 years in the CIA. The same CIA that failed to protect us in WTC 1993 and on 9/11/01.’
    “Nope. His credibility comes from his words.”

    Words are cheap. Just ask Allen Dulles and his brother John Foster. The 50s were halcyon days for CIA régime change. Saved BP and United Fruit from the pearls of democracy. Maximized corporate profit. Sort of ended with the Bay of Pigs FUBAR, but nobody’s perfect (keep those CIA pay-checks coming).

    Why doesn’t Giraldi ever mention the CIA as a ME player? You know, the guys that fell asleep on Al-Qaeda after giving stinger missiles to Afghan jihadists and their other greatest hits (WTC 1993, African Embassy bombings, USS Cole, etc.)? Doesn’t it bother you, Rurik?

    ‘If 9/11 was Jews, shouldn’t the CIA have known that?’
    “They knew, and they assisted. No doubt with British intelligence and others…But that in no way implicates all the minions. Robert Mueller was charged with the cover up on 9/11 as head of the FBI, but that doesn’t implicate every FBI field officer in the nation.

    Who cares about the “minions”? Who needs ‘stinken minions’! We’re not talkin about ‘stinken minions’!

    ‘Be honest, Rurik. You like Dr. Phil because he’s on point, week after week, with circular “Jewish power” tax-subsidized mimes.’
    “I am always honest and I like Dr. G. because he tells the brutal, salient and dire truth. And has the courage to do so.”

    I appreciate PG’s perspective, but really? He telling you what you want to hear, no doubt, but is it (in context) true? He has a sweet deal. Government pension, exceptional health care, tax-exempt DC charity slush fund.

    ‘Don’t really care about either side’
    “You’re lying of course.”

    Really? Different opinions are lies in your small universe? Rewind, Mr. “I am always honest”. Original post:

    Rurik: “Compared to a Zionist Jewish supremacist, a Nazi is a neophyte. Jewish supremacists consider themselves to be divine, and in the grand scheme of things, so too will be their retribution.”

    Incitatus: “Names and beliefs please. Don’t really care about either side, though you use both to seed clouds for tears. Rurik’s chamber of horrors.”

    Why am I “lying”, Rurik? Because I’m neither Nazi supremacist, nor a “Zionist Jewish supremacist”?

    Give us a hint. White or black, anything in between?

    “TRUTH”

    What would you know about that? You can’t really figure out who you are!

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