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Barack Backhands Bibi
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Did the community organizer from Harvard Law just deliver some personal payback to the IDF commando? So it would seem.

By abstaining on that Security Council resolution declaring Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem illegal and invalid, raged Bibi Netanyahu, President Obama “failed to protect Israel in this gang-up at the UN, and colluded with it.”

Obama’s people, charged Bibi, “initiated this resolution, stood behind it, coordinated on the wording and demanded that it be passed.”

White House aide Ben Rhodes calls the charges “falsehoods.”

Hence, we have an Israeli leader all but castigating an American president as a backstabber and betrayer, while the White House calls Bibi a liar.

This is not an unserious matter.

“By standing with the sworn enemies of Israel to enable the passage of this destructive, one-sided anti-Israel rant and tirade,” writes the Washington Times, “Mr. Obama shows his colors.”

But unfortunately for Israel, the blow was delivered by friends as well as “sworn enemies.”

The U.S. abstained, but Britain, whose Balfour Declaration of 1917 led to the Jewish state in Palestine, voted for the resolution.

As did France, which allied with Israel in the Sinai-Suez campaign of 1956 to oust Egypt’s Col. Nasser, and whose Mysteres were indispensable to Israel’s victory in the Six-Day War of 1967.

Vladimir Putin, who has worked with Bibi and was rewarded with Israel’s refusal to support sanctions on Russia for Crimea and Ukraine, also voted for the resolution.

Egypt, whose Gen. Abdel Fattah el-Sisi was welcomed by Bibi after his coup against the Muslim Brotherhood president, and who has collaborated with Bibi against terrorists in Sinai and Gaza, also voted yes.

China voted yes as did Ukraine. New Zealand and Senegal, both of which have embassies in Tel Aviv, introduced the resolution.

Despite Israel’s confidential but deepening ties with Sunni Arab states that share her fear and loathing of Iran, not a single Security Council member stood by her and voted against condemning Israel’s presence in Arab East Jerusalem and the Old City. Had the resolution gone before the General Assembly, support would have been close to unanimous.

While this changes exactly nothing on the ground in the West Bank or East Jerusalem where 600,000 Israelis now reside, it will have consequences, and few of them will be positive for Israel.

The resolution will stimulate and strengthen the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement against Israel, which has broad support among U.S. college students, Bernie Sanders Democrats and the international left.

If Israel does not cease expanding West Bank settlements, she could be hauled before the International Criminal Court and charged with war crimes.

Already, J Street, the liberal Jewish lobby that backs a two-state solution in Palestine — and has been denounced by Donald Trump’s new envoy to Israel David Friedman as “far worse than kapos,” the Jewish guards at Nazi concentration camps — has endorsed the resolution.

The successful resolution is also a reflection of eroding support for Israel at the top of the Democratic Party, as a two-term president and a presidential nominee, Secretary of State John Kerry, were both behind it.

Republicans are moving to exploit the opening by denouncing the resolution and the U.N. and showing solidarity with Israel. Goal: Replace the Democratic Party as the most reliable ally of Israel, and reap the rewards of an historic transfer of Jewish political allegiance.

That Sen. George McGovern was seen as pro-Palestinian enabled Richard Nixon to double his Jewish support between 1968 and 1972.

That Jimmy Carter was seen as cold to Israel enabled Ronald Reagan to capture more than a third of the Jewish vote in 1980, on his way to a 44-state landslide.

Moreover, U.S. acquiescence in this resolution puts Bibi in a box at home. Though seen here as a hawk on the settlements issue, the right wing of Bibi’s coalition is far more hawkish, pushing for outright annexation of West Bank settlements. Others call for a repudiation of Oslo and the idea of an independent Palestinian state.

If Bibi halts settlement building on the West Bank, he could cause a split in his Cabinet with rightist rivals like Naftali Bennett who seek to replace him.

Here in the U.S., the U.N. resolution is seen by Democrats as a political debacle, and by many Trump Republicans as an opportunity.

Sen. Chuck Schumer has denounced Obama’s refusal to veto the resolution, echoing sentiments about the world body one used to hear on America’s far right.

“The U.N.” said Schumer, “has been a fervently anti-Israel body since the days (it said) ‘Zionism is racism’ and that fervor has never diminished.”

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham says he will urge Congress to slash funding for the United Nations.

If the folks over at the John Birch Society still have some of those bumper stickers — “Get the U.S. out of the U.N., and the U.N. out of the U.S.!” they might FedEx a batch over to Schumer and Graham.

May have some converts here.

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of the new book “The Greatest Comeback: How Richard Nixon Rose From Defeat to Create the New Majority.”

Copyright 2016 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Israel Lobby, Israel/Palestine 
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  1. This is not an unserious matter.

    Well, it seems to me this is a completely unserious matter. There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel, demanding to end the occupation and to allow 1948 and 1967 refugees to return, condemning various acts of genocide and annexation of Jerusalem, etc., etc., etc.

    All these resolutions (including this latest one) unfortunately make no practical difference on the ground whatsoever. Moreover, this particular one doesn’t only condemn the settlements, but it also condemns legitimate Palestinian resistance. So, this is nowhere near any watershed event…

    Read More
    • LOL: frayedthread
    • Replies: @Avery
    {There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel, demanding to end the occupation and to allow 1948 and 1967 refugees to return, condemning various acts of genocide...}

    Which UNSC resolution condemns which alleged act of 'genocide'?
    , @USAMNESIA
    Totally agree. The Mideast pit bull has been unleashed since its inception. Words mean nothing. This most recent war criminal administration occupying the white House is pathetic in it's attempt to display some sort of altruistic traits. The majority of congress is just another piece of Israeli occupied territory. To not understand that is to exhibit supreme cognitive dissonance. ...similar to believing participatory politics exist in a world of inverted totalitarianism.
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  2. Informative & balanced article. The U.S. might’ve abstained but as Buchanan points out other friends of Israel such as Britain & France voted Yes on the resolution. Bringing this resolution to a vote was a good way for some to bring the spotlight back onto Israel and away from Syria, Russia, Turkey, Yemen & Iraq. Human rights & human lives seem to be of little account in those places but the U.N. is going to train it’s unrighteous eye on Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    Well as the Israelis are supporters of the terrorism in Syria, Iraq and Yemen, the spotlight should spend some time on the "Shitty little country".
  3. Mr. Buchanan, be careful how you speak to our Master, Israel. Us American GOYIM should show the proper respect and deference to our Overlord, who brooks no dissent.

    We should be happy to be enslaved to that Apartheid nightmare, making the US almost as hated as Israel, since we both cherish our G-d given right to destroy those who think Israel is a land thief, murderer and False Flag expert.

    Read More
  4. The UN vote is way to put Israel in front of a choice: Either seriously move on to a two states solution and Israel remaining a ‘Jewish state” or annex the West bank and occupied territories and create one single federalized country where no religion is associated to its name.
    Iran is strongly in favor of a unique country but has said that it will accept the Palestinians decision. The Israeli far right is also in favor of annexation so are many Palestinians in the occupied territories where they see the advantages of an “Israeli’ citizenship when they are none.
    Trump wants to be the president who solves this issue. Facing the stragnation of the ‘two states’ solution, he may use the UN security resolution to push Israel toward moving to a unique country. For that Netanyahu has to go and replaced by a preferably weak far right leader that Trump could lure into making the right moves into unification.
    Is is a coincidence that Netanyahu is been investigated just now?

    Read More
  5. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Nope, Pat, this is an utterly unserious matter. Israel will ignore the resolution and, domestically, AIPAC will whip the miscreants into line. Dems will whinge more than a slave in a Georgia plantation. At least they will provide comic relief instead of screwing up the country.

    Instead of JBS bumper stickers, maybe the GOP should send Obama a thank-you note for all the governorships, Legislative seats, Hillary, and this backhanding–such a lovely parting gift.

    Read More
  6. @Mao Cheng Ji

    This is not an unserious matter.
     
    Well, it seems to me this is a completely unserious matter. There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel, demanding to end the occupation and to allow 1948 and 1967 refugees to return, condemning various acts of genocide and annexation of Jerusalem, etc., etc., etc.

    All these resolutions (including this latest one) unfortunately make no practical difference on the ground whatsoever. Moreover, this particular one doesn't only condemn the settlements, but it also condemns legitimate Palestinian resistance. So, this is nowhere near any watershed event...

    {There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel, demanding to end the occupation and to allow 1948 and 1967 refugees to return, condemning various acts of genocide…}

    Which UNSC resolution condemns which alleged act of ‘genocide’?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine

    Sabra and Shatila
    http://www.un.org/documents/ga/res/37/a37r123.htm

    Yeah, I stand corrected: only one was addressed by the UN, apparently.

  7. @Avery
    {There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel, demanding to end the occupation and to allow 1948 and 1967 refugees to return, condemning various acts of genocide...}

    Which UNSC resolution condemns which alleged act of 'genocide'?
    Read More
  8. “By standing with the sworn enemies of Israel to enable the passage of this destructive, one-sided anti-Israel rant and tirade,” writes the Washington Times, “Mr. Obama shows his colors.”

    “Sworn enemies of Israel” seems like a pretty long list. Say, every country on the planet except the USA, and Israel herself. Seems much more efficient to list the exceptions (USA, Israel) instead.

    While this changes exactly nothing on the ground in the West Bank or East Jerusalem where 600,000 Israelis now reside, it will have consequences, and few of them will be positive for Israel.

    Indeed, the champions of the oppressed will be rubbing Zionists noses in this constantly, for decades to come. The phrase “rallying cry” comes to mind.

    Already, J Street, the liberal Jewish lobby that backs a two-state solution in Palestine — and has been denounced by Donald Trump’s new envoy to Israel David Friedman as “far worse than kapos,” the Jewish guards at Nazi concentration camps — has endorsed the resolution.

    J Street serves at least one purpose that is never mentioned by Big Media, GOPe, etc; as Jewish fig leaf. It’s of a piece with the typical Jewish strategy of funding (and subverting) both sides of an issue important to them. But like many weapons in an open society, this one is a double-edged sword: AIPAC’s revenue is thirty times J Street’s. That’s right; the conservative, hard-line Israel lobby is thirty times as funded (and thus, supported) as the moderate Israel lobby. That smoke trail you see is the notion that Jews’ leftist bona fides are genuine, going down in flames (the Jon Lovitz reflex is to point out that AIPAC’s been around much longer than J Street, but that’s just another way of saying the same thing).

    Along similar lines, J Street can draw cash away from any less Jewish-Supremacist alternatives. And give all those idle, rich Jewish hands something to do besides become a Devil’s Workshop.

    Republicans are moving to exploit the opening by denouncing the resolution and the U.N. and showing solidarity with Israel. Goal: Replace the Democratic Party as the most reliable ally of Israel, and reap the rewards of an historic transfer of Jewish political allegiance.

    A RINO move. The Jews will force the GOPe to move further left, to stay in their good graces.

    That Jimmy Carter was seen as cold to Israel enabled Ronald Reagan to capture more than a third of the Jewish vote in 1980, on his way to a 44-state landslide.

    The Jewish vote isn’t worth much, especially compared to Jewish money. An ant next to an anthill.

    Well, it seems to me this is a completely unserious matter. There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel

    When was the last one? If memory serves, it was thirty-odd years ago. This one is fresh, it’ll be another thirty-odd years before Zionists can call it ancient history.

    Bringing this resolution to a vote was a good way for some to bring the spotlight back onto Israel and away from Syria, Russia, Turkey, Yemen & Iraq. Human rights & human lives seem to be of little account in those places but the U.N. is going to train it’s unrighteous eye on Israel.

    Russia isn’t doing anything like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Russia even managed to come to a modus vivendi with friggin’ Chechnia, for Pete’s sake. Syria is in the middle of a vicious civil war, you dunce. Turkey is slowly descending into typical Muslim nuthouse status, but 1) They still aren’t doing anything like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, 2) If Israel wants to be compared to typical Muslim nuthouse countries as a matter of course, well, okay, I can go along with that. Yemen is in the middle of a civil war, you dunce. Iraq is just coming out of being in the middle of a civil war, you dunce.

    These are the countries that spring to your mind, for comparison with Israel: Muslim crap holes in the throes of civil war, Muslim crap holes that have been invaded and occupied for ten years by the US, and are just coming out of civil wars, and pseudo-civilized Muslim countries in a slide toward becoming Muslim crap holes.

    But I don’t recall US policy toward any of those countries being anything at all like US policy toward Israel. On the contrary, Israel is “our greatest ally”…

    If Trump is as dedicated and devious as I hope he is (I doubt it), he’s positioning himself to use Israel as a cudgel against the Jewish diaspora. “I love walls, I want one just like the Israeli wall.” “I love Israel’s immigration policies, I think I’ll try them here.” “Israel’s on to something with their ‘country for a nation’ thing, maybe we should give those kinds of folks some breathing room here in America.” “How can we support these people in Israel, but demonize them here?” “Majoritarian rule seems to work very well in Israel. Have I told you how much I love Love LOVE Israel?” “I’m just taking a cue from Our Greatest Ally; Israel doesn’t do Affirmative Action, so why should we?” Etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AntiSatan
    Even the most miserable muslim country, say, Yemen, would be stable if it recieved the 3 billion dollars a year that Isra-Hell recieves from American tax payers pockets.

    (Lets not even mention the grotesque sum of 38 billion dollars Obama and congress have promised Isra-Hell and its president Nut-in-Jew-Hoe.)

    Isra-Hell and its president Nut-In-Jew-Hoe already got the game plan down for you Goyim. Destroy America move American jewry to Russia. Israel is after all run by Russian Jews friendly with Putin. Silly Americans you have no idea. Do you think
    the Trump mentions Putin for nothing ha
    ha ha idiots.

    America has suffered a cout'd etat, the world knows it, only you silly American Isra-Hell slaves are clueless.

    Anti-Semite(Anti-Satan).
    , @Gabriel M

    Russia isn’t doing anything like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Russia even managed to come to a modus vivendi with friggin’ Chechnia, for Pete’s sake.
     
    If Israel did to the Palestine what the Russians did to Chechyna, there'd be a modus vivendi, quicker than you can say Svigor is a lying hypocrite.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
    Civilian casualty estimates range from 25,000 - 250,000

    Turkey is slowly descending into typical Muslim nuthouse status, but 1) They still aren’t doing anything like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians,
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish%E2%80%93Turkish_conflict_(1978%E2%80%93present)
    Demonstrably false, again.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Your arguable points would seem stronger if you didn't suggest large areas of ignorance on your part by saying that Israel has no friends (or non hostile relations) apart from the US. Australia, Singapore and Canada are just some of the sigificant exceptions.
  9. I don’t know why I was so hard on you dunc. I can totally get behind the equivalence of Jews and Syrians, Turks, Iraqis, Yemenis, etc.

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  10. “Hence, we have an Israeli leader all but castigating an American president as a backstabber and betrayer, while the White House calls Bibi a liar.”

    Many Americans rightfully view Barack Obama as a backstabber and a betrayer. What would it take for Americans to rightfully view Israel supporters (Obama is also a supporter of Israel!) as backstabbers and betrayers?

    What would it take to destroy Jewish power and dispense some much needed social justice to that community? Nothing lasts forever. Next Year in Washington!

    Read More
  11. no one has any respect for the UN except the bunch of hand wringing Liberal bureaucrats who work there. Just a giant shit sack.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    The UN is certainly a very bad thing for western countries. It has proven to be a key factor in the opening up of the west to the third world.
    , @jacques sheete

    no one has any respect for the UN except the bunch of hand wringing Liberal bureaucrats who work there. Just a giant shit sack.
     
    True.

    A very brief history of the origins of the United Nations.

    "The UN is controlled by countries with great military interests and expenditures—The United States, Britain, France, China, and Russia. You can't outlaw war and prepare for it at the same time."

    -Jeanette Rankin

    Rankin, running as a Republican Progressive, was the first woman voted to congress and was the only congressperson to vote against US entry into WW1. She was also the only one to vote against the war on Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt758005dx&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text

     

    Many of the key originators of the UN were Americans with ties to international banking and international communism.


    Harvard Law School student and State Department official, Alger Hiss was secretary-general of the San Francisco United Nations Conference on International Organization (the United Nations Charter Conference), which began on April 25, 1945. As a U.S. State Department official, he was a key originator of the United Nations, authoring the UN Charter with CFR stooges Palvosky, Dalton, Trumbull, and others. Hiss submitted the Charter to our Senate which signed it without even reading it. He was an executive secretary of the 1943 Dumbarton Oaks Conference, which developed plans for the future United Nations. He was later convicted and imprisoned as a Soviet spy.

    US Secretary of State Cordell Hull and his staff drafted the "Charter of the United Nations" in mid-1943 and later that year Hull served as United States delegate to the Moscow Conference. He had been Secretary of State under FDR who appointed him to lead the American delegation to the London Economic Conference. Hull also chaired the February, 1942 Advisory Committee on Postwar Foreign Policy. In 1945 Hull was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for "co-initiating the United Nations” and was referred to by President Roosevelt as the "Father of the United Nations."

    Henry Morgenthau Jr. was instrumental in dragging the US into WW1, was a Secretary of the Treasury under FDR, a strong supporter of Stalin despite that thug’s long history of hideous crimes, and he played the central role in financing US participation in World War II. In 1944 he headed the US representation to the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, and as chairman, opened it. The Bretton Woods Conference was the keystone of postwar international finance establishing the International Monetary Fund and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (World Bank) which pegged all international currencies to the dollar. The Bank and the UN have almost the same agendas and membership. In 1943 he wrote, “A United Nations Bank for Reconstruction and Development.” He was also a founding member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

    Harry Hopkins, FDR’s Presidential Special Assistant , helped prepare the Atlantic Conference which was a precursor meeting to United Nations. He helped Roosevelt establish the United Nations and was a major supporter and probably a spy for the Soviet Union.

    Harry D White was an assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Henry Morgenthau, Jr., a commie sympathizer, “internationalist” and co-founder and the first head of the International Monetary Fund, He was also a co-founder of the World Bank. He was the senior American official at the 1944 Bretton Woods conference, and reportedly dominated the conference and imposed his vision of post-war financial institutions on it. He was also a Soviet secret agent—"the most highly-placed asset the Soviets possessed in the American government." White succeeded in subverting American policy to favor Soviet interests over U.S. interests.

    The UN is essentially a creation of elite commie bankers who apparently intend to rule the world.
  12. By abstaining on that Security Council resolution declaring Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem illegal and invalid, raged Bibi Netanyahu, President Obama “failed to protect Israel in this gang-up at the UN, and colluded with it.”

    Israel’s “dindu nuffin it’s all coz I’z black” moment.

    No, Israelis, it’s because the entire world recognises the basic reality that the occupied territories are occupied in a war and you have no right to settle them as you have, utterly shamelessly, been doing in order to try to get around the general modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country. The only people who have ever voted against censuring you on this have been those doing so because they’ve been cajoled, bribed or threatened, or their politicians have been bought, into being dishonest on the issue – mostly US politicians wielding their country’s veto to save Israel from absolutely justified criticism time after time after time. And now you pissed off a US president enough that, at the safe fag end of his second term when Israeli media and political influence in the US doesn’t matter to him any more, he’s prepared to actually stand up to you.

    Well done, Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country.

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?
  13. @Svigor

    “By standing with the sworn enemies of Israel to enable the passage of this destructive, one-sided anti-Israel rant and tirade,” writes the Washington Times, “Mr. Obama shows his colors.”
     
    "Sworn enemies of Israel" seems like a pretty long list. Say, every country on the planet except the USA, and Israel herself. Seems much more efficient to list the exceptions (USA, Israel) instead.

    While this changes exactly nothing on the ground in the West Bank or East Jerusalem where 600,000 Israelis now reside, it will have consequences, and few of them will be positive for Israel.
     
    Indeed, the champions of the oppressed will be rubbing Zionists noses in this constantly, for decades to come. The phrase "rallying cry" comes to mind.

    Already, J Street, the liberal Jewish lobby that backs a two-state solution in Palestine — and has been denounced by Donald Trump’s new envoy to Israel David Friedman as “far worse than kapos,” the Jewish guards at Nazi concentration camps — has endorsed the resolution.
     
    J Street serves at least one purpose that is never mentioned by Big Media, GOPe, etc; as Jewish fig leaf. It's of a piece with the typical Jewish strategy of funding (and subverting) both sides of an issue important to them. But like many weapons in an open society, this one is a double-edged sword: AIPAC's revenue is thirty times J Street's. That's right; the conservative, hard-line Israel lobby is thirty times as funded (and thus, supported) as the moderate Israel lobby. That smoke trail you see is the notion that Jews' leftist bona fides are genuine, going down in flames (the Jon Lovitz reflex is to point out that AIPAC's been around much longer than J Street, but that's just another way of saying the same thing).

    Along similar lines, J Street can draw cash away from any less Jewish-Supremacist alternatives. And give all those idle, rich Jewish hands something to do besides become a Devil's Workshop.

    Republicans are moving to exploit the opening by denouncing the resolution and the U.N. and showing solidarity with Israel. Goal: Replace the Democratic Party as the most reliable ally of Israel, and reap the rewards of an historic transfer of Jewish political allegiance.
     
    A RINO move. The Jews will force the GOPe to move further left, to stay in their good graces.

    That Jimmy Carter was seen as cold to Israel enabled Ronald Reagan to capture more than a third of the Jewish vote in 1980, on his way to a 44-state landslide.
     
    The Jewish vote isn't worth much, especially compared to Jewish money. An ant next to an anthill.

    Well, it seems to me this is a completely unserious matter. There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel
     
    When was the last one? If memory serves, it was thirty-odd years ago. This one is fresh, it'll be another thirty-odd years before Zionists can call it ancient history.

    Bringing this resolution to a vote was a good way for some to bring the spotlight back onto Israel and away from Syria, Russia, Turkey, Yemen & Iraq. Human rights & human lives seem to be of little account in those places but the U.N. is going to train it’s unrighteous eye on Israel.
     
    Russia isn't doing anything like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Russia even managed to come to a modus vivendi with friggin' Chechnia, for Pete's sake. Syria is in the middle of a vicious civil war, you dunce. Turkey is slowly descending into typical Muslim nuthouse status, but 1) They still aren't doing anything like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, 2) If Israel wants to be compared to typical Muslim nuthouse countries as a matter of course, well, okay, I can go along with that. Yemen is in the middle of a civil war, you dunce. Iraq is just coming out of being in the middle of a civil war, you dunce.

    These are the countries that spring to your mind, for comparison with Israel: Muslim crap holes in the throes of civil war, Muslim crap holes that have been invaded and occupied for ten years by the US, and are just coming out of civil wars, and pseudo-civilized Muslim countries in a slide toward becoming Muslim crap holes.

    But I don't recall US policy toward any of those countries being anything at all like US policy toward Israel. On the contrary, Israel is "our greatest ally"...

    If Trump is as dedicated and devious as I hope he is (I doubt it), he's positioning himself to use Israel as a cudgel against the Jewish diaspora. "I love walls, I want one just like the Israeli wall." "I love Israel's immigration policies, I think I'll try them here." "Israel's on to something with their 'country for a nation' thing, maybe we should give those kinds of folks some breathing room here in America." "How can we support these people in Israel, but demonize them here?" "Majoritarian rule seems to work very well in Israel. Have I told you how much I love Love LOVE Israel?" "I'm just taking a cue from Our Greatest Ally; Israel doesn't do Affirmative Action, so why should we?" Etc.

    Even the most miserable muslim country, say, Yemen, would be stable if it recieved the 3 billion dollars a year that Isra-Hell recieves from American tax payers pockets.

    (Lets not even mention the grotesque sum of 38 billion dollars Obama and congress have promised Isra-Hell and its president Nut-in-Jew-Hoe.)

    Isra-Hell and its president Nut-In-Jew-Hoe already got the game plan down for you Goyim. Destroy America move American jewry to Russia. Israel is after all run by Russian Jews friendly with Putin. Silly Americans you have no idea. Do you think
    the Trump mentions Putin for nothing ha
    ha ha idiots.

    America has suffered a cout’d etat, the world knows it, only you silly American Isra-Hell slaves are clueless.

    Anti-Semite(Anti-Satan).

    Read More
    • Agree: Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Even the most miserable muslim country, say, Yemen, would be stable if it recieved the 3 billion dollars a year that Isra-Hell recieves from American tax payers pockets.
     
    Israel's GDP: $296 billion

    Yemen's GDP: $36 billion.

    If you took America's $3 billion from Israel and gave it to Yemen, Israel's economic growth would dip by 1% in the next year, and Yemen would still be getting bombed by Saudi Arabia (with American assistance).
  14. @duncsbaby
    Informative & balanced article. The U.S. might've abstained but as Buchanan points out other friends of Israel such as Britain & France voted Yes on the resolution. Bringing this resolution to a vote was a good way for some to bring the spotlight back onto Israel and away from Syria, Russia, Turkey, Yemen & Iraq. Human rights & human lives seem to be of little account in those places but the U.N. is going to train it's unrighteous eye on Israel.

    Well as the Israelis are supporters of the terrorism in Syria, Iraq and Yemen, the spotlight should spend some time on the “Shitty little country”.

    Read More
  15. @AntiSatan
    Even the most miserable muslim country, say, Yemen, would be stable if it recieved the 3 billion dollars a year that Isra-Hell recieves from American tax payers pockets.

    (Lets not even mention the grotesque sum of 38 billion dollars Obama and congress have promised Isra-Hell and its president Nut-in-Jew-Hoe.)

    Isra-Hell and its president Nut-In-Jew-Hoe already got the game plan down for you Goyim. Destroy America move American jewry to Russia. Israel is after all run by Russian Jews friendly with Putin. Silly Americans you have no idea. Do you think
    the Trump mentions Putin for nothing ha
    ha ha idiots.

    America has suffered a cout'd etat, the world knows it, only you silly American Isra-Hell slaves are clueless.

    Anti-Semite(Anti-Satan).

    Even the most miserable muslim country, say, Yemen, would be stable if it recieved the 3 billion dollars a year that Isra-Hell recieves from American tax payers pockets.

    Israel’s GDP: $296 billion

    Yemen’s GDP: $36 billion.

    If you took America’s $3 billion from Israel and gave it to Yemen, Israel’s economic growth would dip by 1% in the next year, and Yemen would still be getting bombed by Saudi Arabia (with American assistance).

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?
  16. International Freemasonry Hands Illuminati Rothschild Israel Their Ass

    With the resounding United Nations vote against Israel this past week condemning Israel for their illegal settlements and expansionist philosophy since at least 1967, the world’s Freemasons have officially signaled their throwing off of their Illuminati-infiltration at their highest levels, to re-emerge as a Brotherhood of multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious Brothers globally.

    Readers may recall that the Illuminati was borne of three distinct groups back in 1776 – (1) Adam Weishaupt who was a University of Ingolstadt Jesuit Professor in Bavaria Germany who was the ideological brains of the outfit of “no borders, no religions, no families, worldwide communism, one world currency/economy, etc,” bankrolled by (2) Amscher Rothschild and family with his incalculable and uncountable money, and fueled religiously by a Satanic fusion of a virulent strain of weird heretical Judaism using the satanic “Babylonian Talmud” ideas of Sabbatai Zvi by his successor (3) Jacob Frank, ie, Sabbatean-Frankist Judaism (as opposed to real “Torah” Judaism practiced by Hasidic Jews or less evil Luciferian Jerusalem Talmud practiced by others in the Sephardic world).

    Babylonian Talmudism is in reality just crypto-Judaism descended from the Khazarian King’s (Kagan) conversion of his millions of people en masse in 700 AD, who originally worshiped Ba’al, Moloch, and Baphomet, but who were threatened with choosing either Islam, Christianity or Judaism by their Russian Christian neighbors to their North, and their Turkish/Ottoman Empire Muslim neighbors to their South in 700 AD, after the Khazarians raped, murdered, pirated, destroyed, and committed other criminal acts against traders from China, Russia, and the Ottoman Empire for centuries.

    The Illuminati had set their sights on organized Freemasonry infiltration in 1787 at the Congress of Wilhelmsbad after they recounted the successful infiltration of the Catholic Church through the crypto-Jewish Jesuit movement in the 1500s by their fellow Babylonian Talmudist Ignatius Loyola.

    The Illuminati infiltration of both the Catholic Church through the Jesuits and Freemasonry had a good run for the past more than 200 years – but with the advent of the internet, social media, and scores of Illuminati Defectors and Whistleblowers, their reign is coming to and end.

    Unfortunately that means in order to survive, the Illuminati will now begin to cut itself off from the rest of the world (Netanyahu is already ordering his people to do this right now) and they will then begin to murder, assassinate, attack, sabotage, and possibly nuclear annihilate all other nations and leaders around the world who dared to approve this United Nations Security Council resolution, which was unanimously backed up by 14 different countries on this security council.

    The Illuminati will not go quietly into the night – and that is a near certainty.

    Read More
  17. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Dave Pinsen

    Even the most miserable muslim country, say, Yemen, would be stable if it recieved the 3 billion dollars a year that Isra-Hell recieves from American tax payers pockets.
     
    Israel's GDP: $296 billion

    Yemen's GDP: $36 billion.

    If you took America's $3 billion from Israel and gave it to Yemen, Israel's economic growth would dip by 1% in the next year, and Yemen would still be getting bombed by Saudi Arabia (with American assistance).

    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    I wasn't arguing that it should, just noting it's not enough money to make Israel materially worse of it if were removed, and it's not enough to fix Yemen.
    , @Mao Cheng Ji

    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?
     
    I don't think it should, but the idea is that Israel is a Western colonial outpost, heavily-armed bulwark in a very important geopolitical region.
    , @Karl
    > Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?


    to stop it from going to Loretta Lynch & Eric Holder?
  18. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Renoman
    no one has any respect for the UN except the bunch of hand wringing Liberal bureaucrats who work there. Just a giant shit sack.

    The UN is certainly a very bad thing for western countries. It has proven to be a key factor in the opening up of the west to the third world.

    Read More
  19. @anon
    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?

    I wasn’t arguing that it should, just noting it’s not enough money to make Israel materially worse of it if were removed, and it’s not enough to fix Yemen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Doesn't America give much more than the official $3 or 4 billion annually? Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid, oil/energy guarantees, weapons and technology transfers, weapons to use.....The list goes on and on, and that's not counting what Germany and other nations have given Israel over the years.
  20. @Dave Pinsen
    I wasn't arguing that it should, just noting it's not enough money to make Israel materially worse of it if were removed, and it's not enough to fix Yemen.

    Doesn’t America give much more than the official $3 or 4 billion annually? Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid, oil/energy guarantees, weapons and technology transfers, weapons to use…..The list goes on and on, and that’s not counting what Germany and other nations have given Israel over the years.

    Read More
    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    Dov Zakheim looted the pentagon for weapons systems that were suddenly surplus to requirement and sold to the Zionists for cents on the dollar. A hundred billion's worth by one account I read.
    , @Wally
    The admitted billions is merely the tip of a very big iceberg:

    Every US taxpayers "loan" that 'Israel' receives, and they are many and are massive, have never been paid back. The Israeli Occupied Congress curiously "forgives" all these huge debts. As if it wasn't assumed at the beginning.

    "Jewish groups get up to 97% of grants from the Homeland Security"
    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/islamophobia-shmislamophobia-97-of-homeland-security-security-grants-go-to-jewish-orgs
    and:
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189
    and:
    The Zionist attempt to control language.
    The Israel Project’s 2009 GLOBAL LANGUAGE DICTIONARY
    https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf
    and:
    The commander behind the pro-Israel student troops on U.S. college campuses
    http://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page//.premium-1.709014
    and:
    Israel tech site paying “interns” to covertly plant stories in social media
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israel-tech-site-paying-interns-covertly-plant-stories-social-media
    and:
    Israeli students to get $2,000 to spread state propaganda on Facebook
    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-students-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook

    Let's not mention the vast sums they receive from 'Homeland Security to do much of the spying.

    "Jame Bamford of Wired subsequently reported that the NSA had hired secretive contractors with extensive ties to Israeli intelligence to establish 10 to 20 wiretapping rooms at key telecommunication points throughout the country."
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-impact-of-nsa-domestic-spying-2013-6#ixzz3NxPMujNo
    and:
    "Two Secretive Israeli Companies Reportedly Bugged The US Telecommunications Grid For The NSA"
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-bugged-the-us-for-the-nsa-2013-6#ixzz3NxPnnUFg
    and:
    "IDF Unit 8200 Cyberwar Veterans Developed NSA Snooping Technology"
    Read more:http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/06/08/idf-unit-8200-cyberwar-veterans-developed-nsa-snooping-technology/
    , @Dave Pinsen

    Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid
     
    Which loans guaranteed by the US has Israel not repaid? Israel's credit rating is investment grade, similar to those of Ireland and Japan: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/israel/rating

    If Israel defaulted on a loan guaranteed by the US, the US would be stuck with the bill, and if that happened, would be unlikely to guarantee future loans. I don't know of an instance of that happening, but I'd think it would be big news if it did.

  21. @anon
    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?

    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?

    I don’t think it should, but the idea is that Israel is a Western colonial outpost, heavily-armed bulwark in a very important geopolitical region.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    I don’t think it should, but the idea is that Israel is a Western colonial outpost, heavily-armed bulwark in a very important geopolitical region.
     
    Could you please stop propagating such nonsense? I've pointed out before that this "idea" is commonly referred to as the "dog wags tail" thesis, put forward by closet Zionist, Noam Chomsky. This "idea" has subsequently been overtaken by the thesis put forward by Profs. Mearsheimer and Walt, better known as the "tail wags dog" thesis. If you're unfamiliar with it, you should read their book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy.
  22. @Svigor

    “By standing with the sworn enemies of Israel to enable the passage of this destructive, one-sided anti-Israel rant and tirade,” writes the Washington Times, “Mr. Obama shows his colors.”
     
    "Sworn enemies of Israel" seems like a pretty long list. Say, every country on the planet except the USA, and Israel herself. Seems much more efficient to list the exceptions (USA, Israel) instead.

    While this changes exactly nothing on the ground in the West Bank or East Jerusalem where 600,000 Israelis now reside, it will have consequences, and few of them will be positive for Israel.
     
    Indeed, the champions of the oppressed will be rubbing Zionists noses in this constantly, for decades to come. The phrase "rallying cry" comes to mind.

    Already, J Street, the liberal Jewish lobby that backs a two-state solution in Palestine — and has been denounced by Donald Trump’s new envoy to Israel David Friedman as “far worse than kapos,” the Jewish guards at Nazi concentration camps — has endorsed the resolution.
     
    J Street serves at least one purpose that is never mentioned by Big Media, GOPe, etc; as Jewish fig leaf. It's of a piece with the typical Jewish strategy of funding (and subverting) both sides of an issue important to them. But like many weapons in an open society, this one is a double-edged sword: AIPAC's revenue is thirty times J Street's. That's right; the conservative, hard-line Israel lobby is thirty times as funded (and thus, supported) as the moderate Israel lobby. That smoke trail you see is the notion that Jews' leftist bona fides are genuine, going down in flames (the Jon Lovitz reflex is to point out that AIPAC's been around much longer than J Street, but that's just another way of saying the same thing).

    Along similar lines, J Street can draw cash away from any less Jewish-Supremacist alternatives. And give all those idle, rich Jewish hands something to do besides become a Devil's Workshop.

    Republicans are moving to exploit the opening by denouncing the resolution and the U.N. and showing solidarity with Israel. Goal: Replace the Democratic Party as the most reliable ally of Israel, and reap the rewards of an historic transfer of Jewish political allegiance.
     
    A RINO move. The Jews will force the GOPe to move further left, to stay in their good graces.

    That Jimmy Carter was seen as cold to Israel enabled Ronald Reagan to capture more than a third of the Jewish vote in 1980, on his way to a 44-state landslide.
     
    The Jewish vote isn't worth much, especially compared to Jewish money. An ant next to an anthill.

    Well, it seems to me this is a completely unserious matter. There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel
     
    When was the last one? If memory serves, it was thirty-odd years ago. This one is fresh, it'll be another thirty-odd years before Zionists can call it ancient history.

    Bringing this resolution to a vote was a good way for some to bring the spotlight back onto Israel and away from Syria, Russia, Turkey, Yemen & Iraq. Human rights & human lives seem to be of little account in those places but the U.N. is going to train it’s unrighteous eye on Israel.
     
    Russia isn't doing anything like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Russia even managed to come to a modus vivendi with friggin' Chechnia, for Pete's sake. Syria is in the middle of a vicious civil war, you dunce. Turkey is slowly descending into typical Muslim nuthouse status, but 1) They still aren't doing anything like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, 2) If Israel wants to be compared to typical Muslim nuthouse countries as a matter of course, well, okay, I can go along with that. Yemen is in the middle of a civil war, you dunce. Iraq is just coming out of being in the middle of a civil war, you dunce.

    These are the countries that spring to your mind, for comparison with Israel: Muslim crap holes in the throes of civil war, Muslim crap holes that have been invaded and occupied for ten years by the US, and are just coming out of civil wars, and pseudo-civilized Muslim countries in a slide toward becoming Muslim crap holes.

    But I don't recall US policy toward any of those countries being anything at all like US policy toward Israel. On the contrary, Israel is "our greatest ally"...

    If Trump is as dedicated and devious as I hope he is (I doubt it), he's positioning himself to use Israel as a cudgel against the Jewish diaspora. "I love walls, I want one just like the Israeli wall." "I love Israel's immigration policies, I think I'll try them here." "Israel's on to something with their 'country for a nation' thing, maybe we should give those kinds of folks some breathing room here in America." "How can we support these people in Israel, but demonize them here?" "Majoritarian rule seems to work very well in Israel. Have I told you how much I love Love LOVE Israel?" "I'm just taking a cue from Our Greatest Ally; Israel doesn't do Affirmative Action, so why should we?" Etc.

    Russia isn’t doing anything like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Russia even managed to come to a modus vivendi with friggin’ Chechnia, for Pete’s sake.

    If Israel did to the Palestine what the Russians did to Chechyna, there’d be a modus vivendi, quicker than you can say Svigor is a lying hypocrite.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

    Civilian casualty estimates range from 25,000 – 250,000

    Turkey is slowly descending into typical Muslim nuthouse status, but 1) They still aren’t doing anything like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish%E2%80%93Turkish_conflict_(1978%E2%80%93present)

    Demonstrably false, again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    There was a war in Chechnya (a province of Russia), where Chechens, Russians, and others fought against Chechen, Arab, and other militant wahhabists. Government forces had won, and the place is peaceful now, and it's governed by the Chechens, the native population.

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in, ethnically cleansed most of the local population, and created a settler-colonialist entity in the middle of the Arab world. Thus creating the ongoing disaster and endless conflict.

    In other words, these two stories have nothing whatsoever in common.
  23. @Gabriel M

    Russia isn’t doing anything like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Russia even managed to come to a modus vivendi with friggin’ Chechnia, for Pete’s sake.
     
    If Israel did to the Palestine what the Russians did to Chechyna, there'd be a modus vivendi, quicker than you can say Svigor is a lying hypocrite.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
    Civilian casualty estimates range from 25,000 - 250,000

    Turkey is slowly descending into typical Muslim nuthouse status, but 1) They still aren’t doing anything like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians,
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish%E2%80%93Turkish_conflict_(1978%E2%80%93present)
    Demonstrably false, again.

    There was a war in Chechnya (a province of Russia), where Chechens, Russians, and others fought against Chechen, Arab, and other militant wahhabists. Government forces had won, and the place is peaceful now, and it’s governed by the Chechens, the native population.

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in, ethnically cleansed most of the local population, and created a settler-colonialist entity in the middle of the Arab world. Thus creating the ongoing disaster and endless conflict.

    In other words, these two stories have nothing whatsoever in common.

    Read More
    • LOL: iffen
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    I was mistaken when I once called you a hasbarist.
    , @Marcus
    Jews still have more in common with Levantines than Europeans after centuries of living among the latter. BTW Chechnya was only conquered by Russia in the late 19th century after an extremely brutal war and was never completely pacified.
    , @KenH

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in
     
    You mean European JEWS. Jews are semitic and therefore not European nor do they claim to be. Israel is not a European colony but some European nations are arguably vassal states of Israel.
    , @Gabriel M
    What does that have to do with anything? If Israel applied the same methods that Russia did against Chechnya, then the result would be much the same in Chechnya. Chechen separatists didn't give up because you explained to them that they are in the wrong.
  24. @Randal

    By abstaining on that Security Council resolution declaring Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem illegal and invalid, raged Bibi Netanyahu, President Obama “failed to protect Israel in this gang-up at the UN, and colluded with it.”
     
    Israel's "dindu nuffin it's all coz I'z black" moment.

    No, Israelis, it's because the entire world recognises the basic reality that the occupied territories are occupied in a war and you have no right to settle them as you have, utterly shamelessly, been doing in order to try to get around the general modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country. The only people who have ever voted against censuring you on this have been those doing so because they've been cajoled, bribed or threatened, or their politicians have been bought, into being dishonest on the issue - mostly US politicians wielding their country's veto to save Israel from absolutely justified criticism time after time after time. And now you pissed off a US president enough that, at the safe fag end of his second term when Israeli media and political influence in the US doesn't matter to him any more, he's prepared to actually stand up to you.

    Well done, Israel.

    modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country.

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Does this prohibition apply to Russia....}

    Give a modern example of Russia 'incorporating territories taken in war into your own country'.

    btw: I have no clue what is the definition of 'modern' as per poster [Randal].
    , @Randal

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?
     
    Well I suppose I'd have to say it does, or I'd be breaking the law of my country by writing what I wrote (at least as the jewish identity lobbyists of the CAA would have it interpreted), by falling foul of the new "official definition of antisemitism".

    Fortunately neither China nor Russia has incorporated any territories taken in war in the past 50 years, anyway.
    , @Art

    modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country.

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?

     
    "But mommy mommy - Johnny does it!"

    "No iffy - we are better then Johnny."

    p.s. Being no better then the worst - is being very bad.
  25. @Mao Cheng Ji
    There was a war in Chechnya (a province of Russia), where Chechens, Russians, and others fought against Chechen, Arab, and other militant wahhabists. Government forces had won, and the place is peaceful now, and it's governed by the Chechens, the native population.

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in, ethnically cleansed most of the local population, and created a settler-colonialist entity in the middle of the Arab world. Thus creating the ongoing disaster and endless conflict.

    In other words, these two stories have nothing whatsoever in common.

    I was mistaken when I once called you a hasbarist.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    He is disseminating insidious disinformation, whether he is on the payroll of Israel or not. The idea of Israel as a colony of the US/Europe is pathetic New Left fantasy.
  26. @Mao Cheng Ji
    There was a war in Chechnya (a province of Russia), where Chechens, Russians, and others fought against Chechen, Arab, and other militant wahhabists. Government forces had won, and the place is peaceful now, and it's governed by the Chechens, the native population.

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in, ethnically cleansed most of the local population, and created a settler-colonialist entity in the middle of the Arab world. Thus creating the ongoing disaster and endless conflict.

    In other words, these two stories have nothing whatsoever in common.

    Jews still have more in common with Levantines than Europeans after centuries of living among the latter. BTW Chechnya was only conquered by Russia in the late 19th century after an extremely brutal war and was never completely pacified.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Jews still have more in common with Levantines than Europeans after centuries of living among the latter.
     
    Nonsense. 'Jew' is a mere personal identity, and a (say) Russian person who self-identifies as a 'Jew' has everything in common with other Russians, and nothing whatsoever in common with Palestinians. The word 'Palestinians', on the other hand, identifies the totality of native population of Palestine. Some of the Palestinians self-identify as Arabs, some as Greeks or Druse, as Muslims and as Christians, and some as Jews - but only those integrated into the native Palestinian society, as opposed to the settler-colonialist one.
  27. @iffen
    modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country.

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?

    {Does this prohibition apply to Russia….}

    Give a modern example of Russia ‘incorporating territories taken in war into your own country’.

    btw: I have no clue what is the definition of ‘modern’ as per poster [Randal].

    Read More
  28. @Marcus
    Jews still have more in common with Levantines than Europeans after centuries of living among the latter. BTW Chechnya was only conquered by Russia in the late 19th century after an extremely brutal war and was never completely pacified.

    Jews still have more in common with Levantines than Europeans after centuries of living among the latter.

    Nonsense. ‘Jew’ is a mere personal identity, and a (say) Russian person who self-identifies as a ‘Jew’ has everything in common with other Russians, and nothing whatsoever in common with Palestinians. The word ‘Palestinians’, on the other hand, identifies the totality of native population of Palestine. Some of the Palestinians self-identify as Arabs, some as Greeks or Druse, as Muslims and as Christians, and some as Jews – but only those integrated into the native Palestinian society, as opposed to the settler-colonialist one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    No, Jews remained a distinct breeding group from their Gentile hosts (behavior typical of Mideastern "segmentary societies"). This is common knowledge and has been confirmed by studies. Speaking of Russia, you only have to look at how overrepresented Jews were in revolutionary groups and in the modern opposition to see how little the identify with gentile Russians.
    http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/wp-content/blogs.dir/461/files/2012/04/i-8745bd8ca17ce6cc74c6be27bdb56117-jewsa2.png
  29. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Jews still have more in common with Levantines than Europeans after centuries of living among the latter.
     
    Nonsense. 'Jew' is a mere personal identity, and a (say) Russian person who self-identifies as a 'Jew' has everything in common with other Russians, and nothing whatsoever in common with Palestinians. The word 'Palestinians', on the other hand, identifies the totality of native population of Palestine. Some of the Palestinians self-identify as Arabs, some as Greeks or Druse, as Muslims and as Christians, and some as Jews - but only those integrated into the native Palestinian society, as opposed to the settler-colonialist one.

    No, Jews remained a distinct breeding group from their Gentile hosts (behavior typical of Mideastern “segmentary societies”). This is common knowledge and has been confirmed by studies. Speaking of Russia, you only have to look at how overrepresented Jews were in revolutionary groups and in the modern opposition to see how little the identify with gentile Russians.

    http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/wp-content/blogs.dir/461/files/2012/04/i-8745bd8ca17ce6cc74c6be27bdb56117-jewsa2.png

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    But of course every identity has its own narratives and myths, usually along the lines of a classic martyr complex. That's how identities get created, and that's how identities survive and prevent people from liberating themselves, removing the blinders. You're perfectly entitled to buy into it.
  30. @Avery
    {Does this prohibition apply to Russia....}

    Give a modern example of Russia 'incorporating territories taken in war into your own country'.

    btw: I have no clue what is the definition of 'modern' as per poster [Randal].

    Crimea

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    That's what I thought you'd write.

    Wrong.
    Try again.

    Crimea was part of Russian Empire for centuries, even before Ukraine existed.
    Crimea was part of Russia SSR, when Khrushchev, on his own, without asking the people of Crimea, moved it from Russia SSR jurisdiction to Ukraine SSR jurisdiction.
    Another illegal action by an un-elected Soviet leader.

    When USSR broke apart in 1991, Crimea Oblast held a referendum on sovereignty. It was passed by 94% of the voters.
    Kiev ignored the referendum.

    In 2014, Crimea, populated primarily by ethnic Russians voted to re-join Russia. The vote was 95% 'Yes'.

    No need to recount why and how Crimeans were compelled to re-join Russia after the neo-Nazi coup in Kiev.
    , @Bill Jones
    You are either stunningly ignorant or a piss-poor liar.

    The Crimean people voted, by a factor of better than ten to one, to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia.
    , @OutWest
    You’d have done better with the Kurile Islands before the post WW2 exemption was imposed.
  31. @OilcanFloyd
    Doesn't America give much more than the official $3 or 4 billion annually? Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid, oil/energy guarantees, weapons and technology transfers, weapons to use.....The list goes on and on, and that's not counting what Germany and other nations have given Israel over the years.

    Dov Zakheim looted the pentagon for weapons systems that were suddenly surplus to requirement and sold to the Zionists for cents on the dollar. A hundred billion’s worth by one account I read.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Israel also apparently got its nuclear subs from Germany for a steal. Israel would likely be not much different than its neighbors if it only got $3 billion per year. The benefits Israel gets are immeasurable. France was a huge benefactor for years, Germany still is, and apparently Britain still gives lots of aid to Israel. Looking at American aid to Israel, which is far greater than the $3 billion per year acknowledged, is only a part of the picture. How many nations give to Israel? Is it down to three at this point?

    According to this website, Britain give Israel 6 billion PS yearly along with military aid.

    https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-stop-uk-aid-to-israel-both-financially-and-militarily

    Along with foreign and military aid, the German government also runs programs specifically to help Israelis start businesses in tech fields.

    http://www.existstartupgermany.com

    Why exactly does Israel need foreign aid if it is a nation or tireless geniuses?
  32. @Mao Cheng Ji
    There was a war in Chechnya (a province of Russia), where Chechens, Russians, and others fought against Chechen, Arab, and other militant wahhabists. Government forces had won, and the place is peaceful now, and it's governed by the Chechens, the native population.

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in, ethnically cleansed most of the local population, and created a settler-colonialist entity in the middle of the Arab world. Thus creating the ongoing disaster and endless conflict.

    In other words, these two stories have nothing whatsoever in common.

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in

    You mean European JEWS. Jews are semitic and therefore not European nor do they claim to be. Israel is not a European colony but some European nations are arguably vassal states of Israel.

    Read More
    • Agree: Marcus
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Jews are semitic
     
    Well, in my opinion, at least in Europe and North America 'Jews' are nothing; a mere self-identification, not even a religion anymore. Tens of thousands of people self-identify as 'Jedi' or 'Klingon', and some other people as 'Jew'. It doesn't make them different from the rest of general population in any way. And if you're talking about some, far in the past, ancestors of some of them, I think I saw somewhere they were mostly Italians. You probably have all the same ancestors, because the world used to be a very small place.

    In the 17th century Puritans colonized part of North America, and that was European colonization. Around the same time Huguenots colonized parts of South Africa, and that was also European colonization. Same thing.

  33. @KenH

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in
     
    You mean European JEWS. Jews are semitic and therefore not European nor do they claim to be. Israel is not a European colony but some European nations are arguably vassal states of Israel.

    Jews are semitic

    Well, in my opinion, at least in Europe and North America ‘Jews’ are nothing; a mere self-identification, not even a religion anymore. Tens of thousands of people self-identify as ‘Jedi’ or ‘Klingon’, and some other people as ‘Jew’. It doesn’t make them different from the rest of general population in any way. And if you’re talking about some, far in the past, ancestors of some of them, I think I saw somewhere they were mostly Italians. You probably have all the same ancestors, because the world used to be a very small place.

    In the 17th century Puritans colonized part of North America, and that was European colonization. Around the same time Huguenots colonized parts of South Africa, and that was also European colonization. Same thing.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    In the 17th century Puritans colonized part of North America

    And have been purifying North America and the world ever since.
    , @Marcus
    Your opinion is wrong and idiotic. Jews do form a distinct group based on genetics, culture, and centuries-old shared identity: to this day even many non-orthodox Jews don't feel at ease about intermarrying with gentiles. An imperfect but useful comparison would be to the Chinese diaspora communities elsewhere in Asia. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/160994/jewish/Why-Are-My-Non-Religious-Parents-Against-My-Marrying-a-Non-Jew.htm
  34. @Bill Jones
    Dov Zakheim looted the pentagon for weapons systems that were suddenly surplus to requirement and sold to the Zionists for cents on the dollar. A hundred billion's worth by one account I read.

    Israel also apparently got its nuclear subs from Germany for a steal. Israel would likely be not much different than its neighbors if it only got $3 billion per year. The benefits Israel gets are immeasurable. France was a huge benefactor for years, Germany still is, and apparently Britain still gives lots of aid to Israel. Looking at American aid to Israel, which is far greater than the $3 billion per year acknowledged, is only a part of the picture. How many nations give to Israel? Is it down to three at this point?

    According to this website, Britain give Israel 6 billion PS yearly along with military aid.

    https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-stop-uk-aid-to-israel-both-financially-and-militarily

    Along with foreign and military aid, the German government also runs programs specifically to help Israelis start businesses in tech fields.

    http://www.existstartupgermany.com

    Why exactly does Israel need foreign aid if it is a nation or tireless geniuses?

    Read More
    • Replies: @HdC
    Good summary.

    One correction though: The Germans did NOT supply nuclear subs (which implies nuclear power propulsion systems).

    The German subs are very sophisticated conventional propulsion submarines which are capable of nuclear armament. HdC
    , @Wizard of Oz
    I looked at your first link and, as well as a general air of fecklessness about the change.org I noted the absurd implausibility of the bald assertion that the UK was giving Israel £6 billion a year in addition to "military aid". A very brief check discloses the ending of development aid in 1999 and that there is no military aid, only sales.

    Your reference to the German startup finance seems to be similarly random frivolity on a serious subject. Who wouldn't want to get in on the ground floor with smart Israeli entrepreneurs? I have certainly tried though, as with most government attempts to pick winners I, and a lot of smarter much richer investors, did our dough on the big one!
  35. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Jews are semitic
     
    Well, in my opinion, at least in Europe and North America 'Jews' are nothing; a mere self-identification, not even a religion anymore. Tens of thousands of people self-identify as 'Jedi' or 'Klingon', and some other people as 'Jew'. It doesn't make them different from the rest of general population in any way. And if you're talking about some, far in the past, ancestors of some of them, I think I saw somewhere they were mostly Italians. You probably have all the same ancestors, because the world used to be a very small place.

    In the 17th century Puritans colonized part of North America, and that was European colonization. Around the same time Huguenots colonized parts of South Africa, and that was also European colonization. Same thing.

    In the 17th century Puritans colonized part of North America

    And have been purifying North America and the world ever since.

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  36. @iffen
    modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country.

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?

    Well I suppose I’d have to say it does, or I’d be breaking the law of my country by writing what I wrote (at least as the jewish identity lobbyists of the CAA would have it interpreted), by falling foul of the new “official definition of antisemitism”.

    Fortunately neither China nor Russia has incorporated any territories taken in war in the past 50 years, anyway.

    Read More
  37. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Jews are semitic
     
    Well, in my opinion, at least in Europe and North America 'Jews' are nothing; a mere self-identification, not even a religion anymore. Tens of thousands of people self-identify as 'Jedi' or 'Klingon', and some other people as 'Jew'. It doesn't make them different from the rest of general population in any way. And if you're talking about some, far in the past, ancestors of some of them, I think I saw somewhere they were mostly Italians. You probably have all the same ancestors, because the world used to be a very small place.

    In the 17th century Puritans colonized part of North America, and that was European colonization. Around the same time Huguenots colonized parts of South Africa, and that was also European colonization. Same thing.

    Your opinion is wrong and idiotic. Jews do form a distinct group based on genetics, culture, and centuries-old shared identity: to this day even many non-orthodox Jews don’t feel at ease about intermarrying with gentiles. An imperfect but useful comparison would be to the Chinese diaspora communities elsewhere in Asia. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/160994/jewish/Why-Are-My-Non-Religious-Parents-Against-My-Marrying-a-Non-Jew.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Jews do form a distinct group based on genetics, culture, and centuries-old shared identity: to this day even many non-orthodox Jews don’t feel at ease about intermarrying with gentiles.
     
    I don't doubt that you feel this way, but no, they don't form any distinct group, nor do a vast majority of them feel any unease about 'intermarrying' (this term doesn't even make sense here). The most backwater provincial (the equivalent of American hillbillies) might, but certainly not even the half-way educated ones. It's just not a consideration. They find a partner and they get married; no one cares about silly identities dear to their feeble grandparents.

    This is the 21th century, man, and you're still living in the dark ages.
  38. Why the hell is everything about Israel??? Is America first or not? Israel has stollen nuclear secrets from the US (via Jonathan Pollard). Israel holds the entire M.E. hostage because they are the only nuclear country in the M.E. And we wonder why any other M.E. country wants to have nukes???

    Trump campaigned on ‘America First” and making the US great again. We will never do it as long as we are Israel’s flipping lackey.

    I have had enough of this crap.

    Kerry’s speech today was laughable. These clowns had eight flipping years to try and restart a peace process but the entire thing remained dormant, for eight years!!!

    Now, after the ninth inning, Obama’s regime wants to do what? Start a peace process with twenty some days to go? And they mention words like ‘Occupation’, ‘Nakba’ and ‘Palestinian rights’? They could give a damn about any of these things until now?

    Israel is NOT my country. The US is my country.

    Israel is an occupying country, an apartheid state, being fully funded the the US/West because they have nukes.

    FREE PALESTINE! Let Israel live with the consequences of their own actions and that list is long.

    Not in my name and not with my tax dollars.

    Read More
    • Replies: @smoke signals
    Really - Why all this now and about Israel now?

    Things are worse between India and Pakistan. Four big wars and fighting over Kashmir much worse than what is going on in Israel! Bombay under attack for days!

    And that's a BIGGER problem...both sides have nukes! YIKES! And the UN Security Council and Obama and Kerry are worried about ISRAEL? Misplaced priorities and a "Jewish" problem blown out of proportion?

    How about get India and Pakistan to make a peace deal and see how that works first...its a bigger problem.....over 10 million Paki and Indian refugees when the Brits partitioned there in 1947....over 1 million dead in sectarian violence and continuing to this day. Compared to India and Pakistan Israel and Arabs are quite civilized thank you! Also compared to Europe too - peace in Europe only since 1945. Before that no peace between England and France and Germany and Italy and millions upon millions dead...Protestant wars and Catholic wars and Orthodox wars and on and on and on!

    Why is everyone concerned about Israel? There is relative peace there in the west bank BECAUSE of the settlements and the Israel army!

    There is no ISIS there.... just look at Syria and Iraq and Yemen and Egypt and Lebanon and Turkey and Kurdistan and Gaza... AND 20+ year peace deal with Jordan and 30+year peace deal with Egypt. This is success between Israel and Arab countries right? Can't argue with success and OBJECTIVE FACTS!

    Compared to Syria and Iraq and Yemen and Egypt and Lebanon and Gaza and Turkey (another bombing here and another ambassador killed there and throw in a coup to boot!) Judea and Samaria are quite peaceful all thanks to Israel. Look at the OBJECIVE facts

    PROOF that Israel military presence is necessary - Look what happened when Israel left Gaza - big civil war between Palis and the place is now rubble all because of the civil war! And ISIS is infiltrating there. If Israel leaves Judea and Samaria all hell will break loose and that place will become another Syria. You want that?

    Muslims are stirring up trouble all around the world. They fight and eat each other. Look at Iraq and Iran and their war - over 1 million dead! Shia blow up Sunni and vice versa! Israel has the best record with the Arabs and Muslims and many many Muslims live peacefully in Israel the Jewish state! This is OBJECTIVE fact.

    So get that log out of your eye. Look around. Things are relatively peaceful in Israel and all the disputed territories there. You want to save human lives - work on India and Pakistan instead - that is if it is humanity that really concerns you. Do Obama and Kerry have a 6 point idea/vision/plan for India and Pakistan? Do you? Why not? No Jews there?
  39. @Marcus
    Your opinion is wrong and idiotic. Jews do form a distinct group based on genetics, culture, and centuries-old shared identity: to this day even many non-orthodox Jews don't feel at ease about intermarrying with gentiles. An imperfect but useful comparison would be to the Chinese diaspora communities elsewhere in Asia. http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/160994/jewish/Why-Are-My-Non-Religious-Parents-Against-My-Marrying-a-Non-Jew.htm

    Jews do form a distinct group based on genetics, culture, and centuries-old shared identity: to this day even many non-orthodox Jews don’t feel at ease about intermarrying with gentiles.

    I don’t doubt that you feel this way, but no, they don’t form any distinct group, nor do a vast majority of them feel any unease about ‘intermarrying’ (this term doesn’t even make sense here). The most backwater provincial (the equivalent of American hillbillies) might, but certainly not even the half-way educated ones. It’s just not a consideration. They find a partner and they get married; no one cares about silly identities dear to their feeble grandparents.

    This is the 21th century, man, and you’re still living in the dark ages.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    I don't "feel" that way, I know it due to basic knowledge of history, Jewish/Israeli law and opinion, as well genetics; you on the other hand have "it's the current year, omg!" But if you'd like to educate yourself, there's plenty of material to work with, Jews haven't exactly flown under the radar over the last 200 years. http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/99494/a-case-for-genetic-jewishness
    http://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/_blog/The_ProsenPeople/post/Albert_Einstein_A_Highly_Committed_Jew_by_Heritage_and_Origin
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/02/jewish-americans-vote-democratic
  40. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Jews do form a distinct group based on genetics, culture, and centuries-old shared identity: to this day even many non-orthodox Jews don’t feel at ease about intermarrying with gentiles.
     
    I don't doubt that you feel this way, but no, they don't form any distinct group, nor do a vast majority of them feel any unease about 'intermarrying' (this term doesn't even make sense here). The most backwater provincial (the equivalent of American hillbillies) might, but certainly not even the half-way educated ones. It's just not a consideration. They find a partner and they get married; no one cares about silly identities dear to their feeble grandparents.

    This is the 21th century, man, and you're still living in the dark ages.

    I don’t “feel” that way, I know it due to basic knowledge of history, Jewish/Israeli law and opinion, as well genetics; you on the other hand have “it’s the current year, omg!” But if you’d like to educate yourself, there’s plenty of material to work with, Jews haven’t exactly flown under the radar over the last 200 years. http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/99494/a-case-for-genetic-jewishness

    http://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/_blog/The_ProsenPeople/post/Albert_Einstein_A_Highly_Committed_Jew_by_Heritage_and_Origin

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/02/jewish-americans-vote-democratic

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    let me get this straight, Marcus: you are insisting that Jewishness is a genetic, or, in older terminology, a racial, characteristic.

    I thought only nazees insisted on a definition of Jews as a race.

    Jews have been doing so for two centuries, you say.
    Well, wasn't AH the johnnie-come-lately.
    , @Max Payne
    The only Jews I know that marry inside the tribes are the ones that failed to make a life in the West. So they go along with the whole "birth right settlement" thing, go to Palestine, steal some land, find a woman, get married, and all of a sudden its "to keep the bloodlines pure".

    Most (successful) Jews I know have spouses from different backgrounds (Italian, Philippines, Russian, American, British, etc.) but because they're successful in their countries they didn't let the indoctrination of Israel get to them.

    Of course there will always be the retard religious with their inbreeding, that seems to be a very Semite problem both Arab and Jew. We really need to stem that...
  41. @iffen
    Crimea

    That’s what I thought you’d write.

    Wrong.
    Try again.

    Crimea was part of Russian Empire for centuries, even before Ukraine existed.
    Crimea was part of Russia SSR, when Khrushchev, on his own, without asking the people of Crimea, moved it from Russia SSR jurisdiction to Ukraine SSR jurisdiction.
    Another illegal action by an un-elected Soviet leader.

    When USSR broke apart in 1991, Crimea Oblast held a referendum on sovereignty. It was passed by 94% of the voters.
    Kiev ignored the referendum.

    In 2014, Crimea, populated primarily by ethnic Russians voted to re-join Russia. The vote was 95% ‘Yes’.

    No need to recount why and how Crimeans were compelled to re-join Russia after the neo-Nazi coup in Kiev.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    So there was no violence involved in the secession of parts of the Ukraine?

    No on-going hostile stand-off?

    FWIW, if I was the Russian leader, I wouldn't give up Sevastopol either.
  42. Not clear on where to print this; but, it deals with the same subject matter introduced by Patrick Buchanan.

    The ‘Saker‘ wrote the following in his missive: 2016: The Year of Russia’s Triumph.

    “The Russians need to revisit the kind of terror campaign the Palestinians waged in the 1970s against the Israelis when they attacked not only Israeli cultural centers, but also Jewish daycare centers, schools, and synagogues. Russian Orthodox churches are now facing the very same threat including bombings and hostage taking. As somebody who has attended Russian Orthodox churches all my life and all over the planet I know that the number of potential targets are in the *hundreds* and that they are all completely unprotected.

    The Israeli example is crucial here because the Israelis rapidly realized that they simply could not count on the local police forces to protect them. This is why they organized various local organizations directly attached to a synagogue or school staffed by volunteers who could do many very useful and fully legal things to protect Israeli/Jewish targets such as, for example, begin to occupy all the parking spaces around a synagogue 48 hours before any religious holiday to make sure that no VBIEDs (aka “car bombs”) could be placed next to the synagogue. There is *a lot* a well educated group of volunteers can do to legally protect an exposed civilian target. They can do even better when they work with the locals cops and the security specialists at the embassy. The Russians urgently need to study the Israeli experience in dealing with a kind of threat which they will soon face. Remember, the Palestinians also began by attacking diplomats, officials and aircraft, but as soon as these targets were “hardened” they turn to daycare centers, schools and synagogues.”

    The Saker is denouncing the resistance of the victims of Zionist Imperialism, while praising (and justifying, and omitting mention of), the Ethnic Cleansing, and Genocidal actions of the Land Thieving Zionist Nazis. Does he report on these violent events – based on the reports of the Zionist owned media? The well known butchery of the Zionist Terrorists – against the indigenous Palestinian inhabitants, (which has included numerous massacres of civilians, destruction of their places of worship, and destruction of thousands of their homes and farms), receives no mention from him, whatsoever.

    The Palestinians are terrorists? The Native Americans were also terrorists?

    What is the ‘Saker’s’ true role? His real name is public knowledge.

    You read this. You decide.

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  43. @iffen
    Crimea

    You are either stunningly ignorant or a piss-poor liar.

    The Crimean people voted, by a factor of better than ten to one, to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    You are either stunningly ignorant or a piss-poor liar.

    These two are not mutually exclusive.
  44. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Marcus
    I don't "feel" that way, I know it due to basic knowledge of history, Jewish/Israeli law and opinion, as well genetics; you on the other hand have "it's the current year, omg!" But if you'd like to educate yourself, there's plenty of material to work with, Jews haven't exactly flown under the radar over the last 200 years. http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/99494/a-case-for-genetic-jewishness
    http://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/_blog/The_ProsenPeople/post/Albert_Einstein_A_Highly_Committed_Jew_by_Heritage_and_Origin
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/02/jewish-americans-vote-democratic

    let me get this straight, Marcus: you are insisting that Jewishness is a genetic, or, in older terminology, a racial, characteristic.

    I thought only nazees insisted on a definition of Jews as a race.

    Jews have been doing so for two centuries, you say.
    Well, wasn’t AH the johnnie-come-lately.

    Read More
  45. @Bill Jones
    You are either stunningly ignorant or a piss-poor liar.

    The Crimean people voted, by a factor of better than ten to one, to secede from Ukraine and rejoin Russia.

    You are either stunningly ignorant or a piss-poor liar.

    These two are not mutually exclusive.

    Read More
  46. @Avery
    That's what I thought you'd write.

    Wrong.
    Try again.

    Crimea was part of Russian Empire for centuries, even before Ukraine existed.
    Crimea was part of Russia SSR, when Khrushchev, on his own, without asking the people of Crimea, moved it from Russia SSR jurisdiction to Ukraine SSR jurisdiction.
    Another illegal action by an un-elected Soviet leader.

    When USSR broke apart in 1991, Crimea Oblast held a referendum on sovereignty. It was passed by 94% of the voters.
    Kiev ignored the referendum.

    In 2014, Crimea, populated primarily by ethnic Russians voted to re-join Russia. The vote was 95% 'Yes'.

    No need to recount why and how Crimeans were compelled to re-join Russia after the neo-Nazi coup in Kiev.

    So there was no violence involved in the secession of parts of the Ukraine?

    No on-going hostile stand-off?

    FWIW, if I was the Russian leader, I wouldn’t give up Sevastopol either.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {So there was no violence involved in the secession of parts of the Ukraine?}

    Now you are changing from 'Crimea' to 'parts of the Ukraine'?
    Now you are changing from 'war' to 'violence'?

    So your 'Crimea' answer was debunked, you are now expanding to the rest of Ukraine?
  47. @iffen
    So there was no violence involved in the secession of parts of the Ukraine?

    No on-going hostile stand-off?

    FWIW, if I was the Russian leader, I wouldn't give up Sevastopol either.

    {So there was no violence involved in the secession of parts of the Ukraine?}

    Now you are changing from ‘Crimea’ to ‘parts of the Ukraine’?
    Now you are changing from ‘war’ to ‘violence’?

    So your ‘Crimea’ answer was debunked, you are now expanding to the rest of Ukraine?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Was Crimea part of the Ukraine?

    So, if it any area was part of the Russian Empire at any time, we are good to go?

  48. @OilcanFloyd
    Doesn't America give much more than the official $3 or 4 billion annually? Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid, oil/energy guarantees, weapons and technology transfers, weapons to use.....The list goes on and on, and that's not counting what Germany and other nations have given Israel over the years.

    The admitted billions is merely the tip of a very big iceberg:

    Every US taxpayers “loan” that ‘Israel’ receives, and they are many and are massive, have never been paid back. The Israeli Occupied Congress curiously “forgives” all these huge debts. As if it wasn’t assumed at the beginning.

    “Jewish groups get up to 97% of grants from the Homeland Security”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/07/islamophobia-shmislamophobia-97-of-homeland-security-security-grants-go-to-jewish-orgs

    and:
    Zionist Wikipedia Editing Course

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139189

    and:
    The Zionist attempt to control language.
    The Israel Project’s 2009 GLOBAL LANGUAGE DICTIONARY

    https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf

    and:
    The commander behind the pro-Israel student troops on U.S. college campuses

    http://www.haaretz.com/misc/article-print-page//.premium-1.709014

    and:
    Israel tech site paying “interns” to covertly plant stories in social media

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israel-tech-site-paying-interns-covertly-plant-stories-social-media

    and:
    Israeli students to get $2,000 to spread state propaganda on Facebook

    http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-students-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook

    Let’s not mention the vast sums they receive from ‘Homeland Security to do much of the spying.

    “Jame Bamford of Wired subsequently reported that the NSA had hired secretive contractors with extensive ties to Israeli intelligence to establish 10 to 20 wiretapping rooms at key telecommunication points throughout the country.”
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-impact-of-nsa-domestic-spying-2013-6#ixzz3NxPMujNo
    and:
    “Two Secretive Israeli Companies Reportedly Bugged The US Telecommunications Grid For The NSA”
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/israelis-bugged-the-us-for-the-nsa-2013-6#ixzz3NxPnnUFg
    and:
    “IDF Unit 8200 Cyberwar Veterans Developed NSA Snooping Technology”
    Read more:http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2013/06/08/idf-unit-8200-cyberwar-veterans-developed-nsa-snooping-technology/

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  49. @iffen
    You are either stunningly ignorant or a piss-poor liar.

    These two are not mutually exclusive.

    True, but I like to be generous.

    Read More
  50. @Avery
    {So there was no violence involved in the secession of parts of the Ukraine?}

    Now you are changing from 'Crimea' to 'parts of the Ukraine'?
    Now you are changing from 'war' to 'violence'?

    So your 'Crimea' answer was debunked, you are now expanding to the rest of Ukraine?

    Was Crimea part of the Ukraine?

    So, if it any area was part of the Russian Empire at any time, we are good to go?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    You are desperately throwing out nonsense, are getting caught at it, are getting debunked, and instead of admitting you have no argument and are cornered - you are throwing more nonsense in desperation.

    We got from specifically 'modern', specifically 'Crimea' to.......'any area' and 'any time'.

    Sure, why not.
    , @Mao Cheng Ji

    Was Crimea part of the Ukraine?
     
    Crimea was an autonomous republic within Ukraine, trying to get out of Ukraine by political means.

    In February 2014 there was an armed coup in Kiev, and therefore, due to a breakdown of the constitutional order -- acknowledged even by the putschists themselves (they call it 'revolution of dignity'; revolution, you see?) -- the state of Ukraine of which Crimea was part, ceased to exist. The people of Crimea used it as the opportunity to declare independence and then to join Russian Federation. That's the story.

  51. @Mao Cheng Ji

    This is not an unserious matter.
     
    Well, it seems to me this is a completely unserious matter. There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel, demanding to end the occupation and to allow 1948 and 1967 refugees to return, condemning various acts of genocide and annexation of Jerusalem, etc., etc., etc.

    All these resolutions (including this latest one) unfortunately make no practical difference on the ground whatsoever. Moreover, this particular one doesn't only condemn the settlements, but it also condemns legitimate Palestinian resistance. So, this is nowhere near any watershed event...

    Totally agree. The Mideast pit bull has been unleashed since its inception. Words mean nothing. This most recent war criminal administration occupying the white House is pathetic in it’s attempt to display some sort of altruistic traits. The majority of congress is just another piece of Israeli occupied territory. To not understand that is to exhibit supreme cognitive dissonance. …similar to believing participatory politics exist in a world of inverted totalitarianism.

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  52. @iffen
    Was Crimea part of the Ukraine?

    So, if it any area was part of the Russian Empire at any time, we are good to go?

    You are desperately throwing out nonsense, are getting caught at it, are getting debunked, and instead of admitting you have no argument and are cornered – you are throwing more nonsense in desperation.

    We got from specifically ‘modern’, specifically ‘Crimea’ to…….‘any area’ and ‘any time’.

    Sure, why not.

    Read More
  53. “Barack Backhands Bibi”

    If Trump were smart he’d find a way to smack “Bibi” too, very early.

    Once the proper relationship has been restored then he can work out what’s best for the US in this relationship- or if there needs to be one at all.

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  54. @Donna Volatile
    Why the hell is everything about Israel??? Is America first or not? Israel has stollen nuclear secrets from the US (via Jonathan Pollard). Israel holds the entire M.E. hostage because they are the only nuclear country in the M.E. And we wonder why any other M.E. country wants to have nukes???

    Trump campaigned on 'America First" and making the US great again. We will never do it as long as we are Israel's flipping lackey.

    I have had enough of this crap.

    Kerry's speech today was laughable. These clowns had eight flipping years to try and restart a peace process but the entire thing remained dormant, for eight years!!!

    Now, after the ninth inning, Obama's regime wants to do what? Start a peace process with twenty some days to go? And they mention words like 'Occupation', 'Nakba' and 'Palestinian rights'? They could give a damn about any of these things until now?

    Israel is NOT my country. The US is my country.

    Israel is an occupying country, an apartheid state, being fully funded the the US/West because they have nukes.

    FREE PALESTINE! Let Israel live with the consequences of their own actions and that list is long.

    Not in my name and not with my tax dollars.

    Really – Why all this now and about Israel now?

    Things are worse between India and Pakistan. Four big wars and fighting over Kashmir much worse than what is going on in Israel! Bombay under attack for days!

    And that’s a BIGGER problem…both sides have nukes! YIKES! And the UN Security Council and Obama and Kerry are worried about ISRAEL? Misplaced priorities and a “Jewish” problem blown out of proportion?

    How about get India and Pakistan to make a peace deal and see how that works first…its a bigger problem…..over 10 million Paki and Indian refugees when the Brits partitioned there in 1947….over 1 million dead in sectarian violence and continuing to this day. Compared to India and Pakistan Israel and Arabs are quite civilized thank you! Also compared to Europe too – peace in Europe only since 1945. Before that no peace between England and France and Germany and Italy and millions upon millions dead…Protestant wars and Catholic wars and Orthodox wars and on and on and on!

    Why is everyone concerned about Israel? There is relative peace there in the west bank BECAUSE of the settlements and the Israel army!

    There is no ISIS there…. just look at Syria and Iraq and Yemen and Egypt and Lebanon and Turkey and Kurdistan and Gaza… AND 20+ year peace deal with Jordan and 30+year peace deal with Egypt. This is success between Israel and Arab countries right? Can’t argue with success and OBJECTIVE FACTS!

    Compared to Syria and Iraq and Yemen and Egypt and Lebanon and Gaza and Turkey (another bombing here and another ambassador killed there and throw in a coup to boot!) Judea and Samaria are quite peaceful all thanks to Israel. Look at the OBJECIVE facts

    PROOF that Israel military presence is necessary – Look what happened when Israel left Gaza – big civil war between Palis and the place is now rubble all because of the civil war! And ISIS is infiltrating there. If Israel leaves Judea and Samaria all hell will break loose and that place will become another Syria. You want that?

    Muslims are stirring up trouble all around the world. They fight and eat each other. Look at Iraq and Iran and their war – over 1 million dead! Shia blow up Sunni and vice versa! Israel has the best record with the Arabs and Muslims and many many Muslims live peacefully in Israel the Jewish state! This is OBJECTIVE fact.

    So get that log out of your eye. Look around. Things are relatively peaceful in Israel and all the disputed territories there. You want to save human lives – work on India and Pakistan instead – that is if it is humanity that really concerns you. Do Obama and Kerry have a 6 point idea/vision/plan for India and Pakistan? Do you? Why not? No Jews there?

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  55. @Renoman
    no one has any respect for the UN except the bunch of hand wringing Liberal bureaucrats who work there. Just a giant shit sack.

    no one has any respect for the UN except the bunch of hand wringing Liberal bureaucrats who work there. Just a giant shit sack.

    True.

    A very brief history of the origins of the United Nations.

    “The UN is controlled by countries with great military interests and expenditures—The United States, Britain, France, China, and Russia. You can’t outlaw war and prepare for it at the same time.”

    -Jeanette Rankin

    Rankin, running as a Republican Progressive, was the first woman voted to congress and was the only congressperson to vote against US entry into WW1. She was also the only one to vote against the war on Japan after the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt758005dx&brand=calisphere&doc.view=entire_text

    Many of the key originators of the UN were Americans with ties to international banking and international communism.

    [MORE]

    Harvard Law School student and State Department official, Alger Hiss was secretary-general of the San Francisco United Nations Conference on International Organization (the United Nations Charter Conference), which began on April 25, 1945. As a U.S. State Department official, he was a key originator of the United Nations, authoring the UN Charter with CFR stooges Palvosky, Dalton, Trumbull, and others. Hiss submitted the Charter to our Senate which signed it without even reading it. He was an executive secretary of the 1943 Dumbarton Oaks Conference, which developed plans for the future United Nations. He was later convicted and imprisoned as a Soviet spy.

    US Secretary of State Cordell Hull and his staff drafted the “Charter of the United Nations” in mid-1943 and later that year Hull served as United States delegate to the Moscow Conference. He had been Secretary of State under FDR who appointed him to lead the American delegation to the London Economic Conference. Hull also chaired the February, 1942 Advisory Committee on Postwar Foreign Policy. In 1945 Hull was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for “co-initiating the United Nations” and was referred to by President Roosevelt as the “Father of the United Nations.”

    Henry Morgenthau Jr. was instrumental in dragging the US into WW1, was a Secretary of the Treasury under FDR, a strong supporter of Stalin despite that thug’s long history of hideous crimes, and he played the central role in financing US participation in World War II. In 1944 he headed the US representation to the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, and as chairman, opened it. The Bretton Woods Conference was the keystone of postwar international finance establishing the International Monetary Fund and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (World Bank) which pegged all international currencies to the dollar. The Bank and the UN have almost the same agendas and membership. In 1943 he wrote, “A United Nations Bank for Reconstruction and Development.” He was also a founding member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR).

    Harry Hopkins, FDR’s Presidential Special Assistant , helped prepare the Atlantic Conference which was a precursor meeting to United Nations. He helped Roosevelt establish the United Nations and was a major supporter and probably a spy for the Soviet Union.

    Harry D White was an assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Henry Morgenthau, Jr., a commie sympathizer, “internationalist” and co-founder and the first head of the International Monetary Fund, He was also a co-founder of the World Bank. He was the senior American official at the 1944 Bretton Woods conference, and reportedly dominated the conference and imposed his vision of post-war financial institutions on it. He was also a Soviet secret agent—”the most highly-placed asset the Soviets possessed in the American government.” White succeeded in subverting American policy to favor Soviet interests over U.S. interests.

    The UN is essentially a creation of elite commie bankers who apparently intend to rule the world.

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  56. @Marcus
    I don't "feel" that way, I know it due to basic knowledge of history, Jewish/Israeli law and opinion, as well genetics; you on the other hand have "it's the current year, omg!" But if you'd like to educate yourself, there's plenty of material to work with, Jews haven't exactly flown under the radar over the last 200 years. http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/99494/a-case-for-genetic-jewishness
    http://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/_blog/The_ProsenPeople/post/Albert_Einstein_A_Highly_Committed_Jew_by_Heritage_and_Origin
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/02/jewish-americans-vote-democratic

    The only Jews I know that marry inside the tribes are the ones that failed to make a life in the West. So they go along with the whole “birth right settlement” thing, go to Palestine, steal some land, find a woman, get married, and all of a sudden its “to keep the bloodlines pure”.

    Most (successful) Jews I know have spouses from different backgrounds (Italian, Philippines, Russian, American, British, etc.) but because they’re successful in their countries they didn’t let the indoctrination of Israel get to them.

    Of course there will always be the retard religious with their inbreeding, that seems to be a very Semite problem both Arab and Jew. We really need to stem that…

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  57. @Marcus
    No, Jews remained a distinct breeding group from their Gentile hosts (behavior typical of Mideastern "segmentary societies"). This is common knowledge and has been confirmed by studies. Speaking of Russia, you only have to look at how overrepresented Jews were in revolutionary groups and in the modern opposition to see how little the identify with gentile Russians.
    http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/wp-content/blogs.dir/461/files/2012/04/i-8745bd8ca17ce6cc74c6be27bdb56117-jewsa2.png

    But of course every identity has its own narratives and myths, usually along the lines of a classic martyr complex. That’s how identities get created, and that’s how identities survive and prevent people from liberating themselves, removing the blinders. You’re perfectly entitled to buy into it.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    Dismissing ~2600 years of documented history, backed up by genetics, shows you're the one with blinders on (or just an idiot).

    That’s how identities get created, and that’s how identities survive and prevent people from liberating themselves, removing the blinders.
     
    Your puerile Lennonist vision of fully atomized individuals has been realized in much of North America and Europe, the result isn't liberation, but civilization-level suicide http://takimag.com/article/white_american_anomie_sacco_vandal
  58. @iffen
    Was Crimea part of the Ukraine?

    So, if it any area was part of the Russian Empire at any time, we are good to go?

    Was Crimea part of the Ukraine?

    Crimea was an autonomous republic within Ukraine, trying to get out of Ukraine by political means.

    In February 2014 there was an armed coup in Kiev, and therefore, due to a breakdown of the constitutional order — acknowledged even by the putschists themselves (they call it ‘revolution of dignity’; revolution, you see?) — the state of Ukraine of which Crimea was part, ceased to exist. The people of Crimea used it as the opportunity to declare independence and then to join Russian Federation. That’s the story.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    So you would be okay with Tibetans, and only ethnic Tibetans, conducting a referendum on whether to remain a part of China?
  59. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?
     
    I don't think it should, but the idea is that Israel is a Western colonial outpost, heavily-armed bulwark in a very important geopolitical region.

    I don’t think it should, but the idea is that Israel is a Western colonial outpost, heavily-armed bulwark in a very important geopolitical region.

    Could you please stop propagating such nonsense? I’ve pointed out before that this “idea” is commonly referred to as the “dog wags tail” thesis, put forward by closet Zionist, Noam Chomsky. This “idea” has subsequently been overtaken by the thesis put forward by Profs. Mearsheimer and Walt, better known as the “tail wags dog” thesis. If you’re unfamiliar with it, you should read their book The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy.

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  60. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Was Crimea part of the Ukraine?
     
    Crimea was an autonomous republic within Ukraine, trying to get out of Ukraine by political means.

    In February 2014 there was an armed coup in Kiev, and therefore, due to a breakdown of the constitutional order -- acknowledged even by the putschists themselves (they call it 'revolution of dignity'; revolution, you see?) -- the state of Ukraine of which Crimea was part, ceased to exist. The people of Crimea used it as the opportunity to declare independence and then to join Russian Federation. That's the story.

    So you would be okay with Tibetans, and only ethnic Tibetans, conducting a referendum on whether to remain a part of China?

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    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    So you would be okay with Tibetans, and only ethnic Tibetans, conducting a referendum on whether to remain a part of China?
     
    No, why only ethnic Tibetans? That's not how things are done. Leave your ethnicity at home. All Tibetan society. Just like in N.Ireland, where both Catholics and Protestants vote.

    But in any case, this is not a Crimea/Ukraine-like situation. China is a stable state today, sovereign state. As such, it imposes its own rules. Just like the US of A - Texas can't secede from the union, not peacefully, it's just not allowed. But when there is a revolution in Beijing and the government falls, then, sure, it becomes free for all... Secessions, civil wars, the whole nine yards...
  61. @Mao Cheng Ji
    But of course every identity has its own narratives and myths, usually along the lines of a classic martyr complex. That's how identities get created, and that's how identities survive and prevent people from liberating themselves, removing the blinders. You're perfectly entitled to buy into it.

    Dismissing ~2600 years of documented history, backed up by genetics, shows you’re the one with blinders on (or just an idiot).

    That’s how identities get created, and that’s how identities survive and prevent people from liberating themselves, removing the blinders.

    Your puerile Lennonist vision of fully atomized individuals has been realized in much of North America and Europe, the result isn’t liberation, but civilization-level suicide http://takimag.com/article/white_american_anomie_sacco_vandal

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Your puerile Lennonist vision of fully atomized individuals
     
    I'm very much against individualism and social atomization (and so was Lenin, I'm pretty sure). And I'm not against cultural identification, as long is it isn't an obsession used as a tool of tribal animosity and aggression.

    But then there are so many other identities, much more meaningful. Maybe you're a parent? That's an identity, and you should be able to empathize with other parents. Or, you - oh, I dunno - like opera? Jazz? Are you an engineer? A farmer? Poker player? There are plenty of identities that bind people together.
  62. @OilcanFloyd
    I was mistaken when I once called you a hasbarist.

    He is disseminating insidious disinformation, whether he is on the payroll of Israel or not. The idea of Israel as a colony of the US/Europe is pathetic New Left fantasy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    I don't buy Israel as a colony of the U.S. or Europe, either. But I do give credit for shooting down a comparison between Israel's actions in Palestine and Russia's actions in Chechnya. The true test would be to admit that the founding of the U.S., which was a colony of a European power, isn't comparable to the founding of Israel, which wasn't.
  63. @Marcus
    Dismissing ~2600 years of documented history, backed up by genetics, shows you're the one with blinders on (or just an idiot).

    That’s how identities get created, and that’s how identities survive and prevent people from liberating themselves, removing the blinders.
     
    Your puerile Lennonist vision of fully atomized individuals has been realized in much of North America and Europe, the result isn't liberation, but civilization-level suicide http://takimag.com/article/white_american_anomie_sacco_vandal

    Your puerile Lennonist vision of fully atomized individuals

    I’m very much against individualism and social atomization (and so was Lenin, I’m pretty sure). And I’m not against cultural identification, as long is it isn’t an obsession used as a tool of tribal animosity and aggression.

    But then there are so many other identities, much more meaningful. Maybe you’re a parent? That’s an identity, and you should be able to empathize with other parents. Or, you – oh, I dunno – like opera? Jazz? Are you an engineer? A farmer? Poker player? There are plenty of identities that bind people together.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    I am, of course, referring to John Lennon, an "icon" among your fellow New Left manchildren.

    And I’m not against cultural identification, as long is it isn’t an obsession used as a tool of tribal animosity and aggression.
     
    Humans are tribal by nature, always have been, always will be. There's nothing more potent than ties of blood and shared memories, see my link about Einstein (hardly a proto-Likudnik) and his views on Jewishness.
  64. @iffen
    So you would be okay with Tibetans, and only ethnic Tibetans, conducting a referendum on whether to remain a part of China?

    So you would be okay with Tibetans, and only ethnic Tibetans, conducting a referendum on whether to remain a part of China?

    No, why only ethnic Tibetans? That’s not how things are done. Leave your ethnicity at home. All Tibetan society. Just like in N.Ireland, where both Catholics and Protestants vote.

    But in any case, this is not a Crimea/Ukraine-like situation. China is a stable state today, sovereign state. As such, it imposes its own rules. Just like the US of A – Texas can’t secede from the union, not peacefully, it’s just not allowed. But when there is a revolution in Beijing and the government falls, then, sure, it becomes free for all… Secessions, civil wars, the whole nine yards…

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    That’s not how things are done.

    Who? Whom? All the way down.
    , @smoke signals
    Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng Confused - Jews always resided in Israel and Judea and Samaria and Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and they are native to the middle east region. Right now Israel is about 50% European Jews and 50% Arab Jews from places like Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Morocco, Yemen, Lebanon, Tunisia, Libya and ME country Iran and some even from India; further more Jews from Ethiopia and some black Jews from USA. Israel is a multi cultural country. There are Arabs living in Israel too who are Israeli citizens - Xn muslim allawites druze samarians etc. So not only European white Jews live in Israel. All kinds of people live in Israel.

    Also many of the Arabs in Palestine are converted from Judaism to Islam and Xnism so to say that ethnic religious cultural Jews have no right to live in Israel is like saying that any Egyptian Arab has no right to live in so called 'palestine'.

    So Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng wants ethnic cleansing? So called Arabs in Judea and Samaria also from all over the world and there is no such thing as a pure Palestine Arab. The Arabs in so called 'palestine' are from Egypt Syria Iraq Lebanon etc. All countries all over the world have people living in them from all over the world. This is the 21st century.

    Bottom line - Present Islamic tendency is violent and disposed toward violence.

    And the fighting has nothing to do with the European Jews. Muslims and Arabs fight with each other and everyone else. Look at Iran -Iraq war (1 million dead) Syrian Civil War (500k dead) all the bombings and at mosques shiite and sunni all over the uma (world of Islam.) Islamic world is in a violent deadly posture and this is nothing new and has nothing to do with Jews or Israel.

    So if Palestine is for the Arabs the Arab Jews in Palestine are in the right place and they can associate with whomever they want including their European brothers and sisters, n'est pas?

  65. @iffen
    modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country.

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?

    modern prohibition on incorporating territories taken in war into your own country.

    Does this prohibition apply to Russia and China?

    “But mommy mommy – Johnny does it!”

    “No iffy – we are better then Johnny.”

    p.s. Being no better then the worst – is being very bad.

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  66. @Marcus
    He is disseminating insidious disinformation, whether he is on the payroll of Israel or not. The idea of Israel as a colony of the US/Europe is pathetic New Left fantasy.

    I don’t buy Israel as a colony of the U.S. or Europe, either. But I do give credit for shooting down a comparison between Israel’s actions in Palestine and Russia’s actions in Chechnya. The true test would be to admit that the founding of the U.S., which was a colony of a European power, isn’t comparable to the founding of Israel, which wasn’t.

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  67. @Mao Cheng Ji

    So you would be okay with Tibetans, and only ethnic Tibetans, conducting a referendum on whether to remain a part of China?
     
    No, why only ethnic Tibetans? That's not how things are done. Leave your ethnicity at home. All Tibetan society. Just like in N.Ireland, where both Catholics and Protestants vote.

    But in any case, this is not a Crimea/Ukraine-like situation. China is a stable state today, sovereign state. As such, it imposes its own rules. Just like the US of A - Texas can't secede from the union, not peacefully, it's just not allowed. But when there is a revolution in Beijing and the government falls, then, sure, it becomes free for all... Secessions, civil wars, the whole nine yards...

    That’s not how things are done.

    Who? Whom? All the way down.

    Read More
  68. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Your puerile Lennonist vision of fully atomized individuals
     
    I'm very much against individualism and social atomization (and so was Lenin, I'm pretty sure). And I'm not against cultural identification, as long is it isn't an obsession used as a tool of tribal animosity and aggression.

    But then there are so many other identities, much more meaningful. Maybe you're a parent? That's an identity, and you should be able to empathize with other parents. Or, you - oh, I dunno - like opera? Jazz? Are you an engineer? A farmer? Poker player? There are plenty of identities that bind people together.

    I am, of course, referring to John Lennon, an “icon” among your fellow New Left manchildren.

    And I’m not against cultural identification, as long is it isn’t an obsession used as a tool of tribal animosity and aggression.

    Humans are tribal by nature, always have been, always will be. There’s nothing more potent than ties of blood and shared memories, see my link about Einstein (hardly a proto-Likudnik) and his views on Jewishness.

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    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I am, of course, referring to John Lennon, an “icon” among your fellow New Left manchildren.
     
    Lennon and Ronald Reagan bumped into one another despite their hosts' desperate attempts to keep them apart. Reagan put his arm around Lennon and explained the rules of American football, and Lennon was enchanted.

    Must be that half-quantum of Irish blood they shared. And/or the memories (or lack thereof) of reckless Irish fathers. So much for universalism.
    , @Mao Cheng Ji
    Humans are not tribal, it's just that some get sentimental about their native, old, 'back in the day' culture, as they become older.

    And of course there are no such things as "ties of blood and shared memories", these are metaphors. Metaphors, again, describing cultural idiosyncrasies: the food, the songs, the jokes, the body language, basic ethical judgments, other little familiars (though insignificant) details. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that, as long it doesn't become an obsession with victimization complex attached to it.

    I must say, in all fairness, I understand, of course, how it could happened in the aftermath of WWII (Zionism wasn't popular at all before Nazism came in full swing), but come on, that was a long time ago. It's different times now; whole new, different generations. Enough is enough.

  69. @OilcanFloyd
    Israel also apparently got its nuclear subs from Germany for a steal. Israel would likely be not much different than its neighbors if it only got $3 billion per year. The benefits Israel gets are immeasurable. France was a huge benefactor for years, Germany still is, and apparently Britain still gives lots of aid to Israel. Looking at American aid to Israel, which is far greater than the $3 billion per year acknowledged, is only a part of the picture. How many nations give to Israel? Is it down to three at this point?

    According to this website, Britain give Israel 6 billion PS yearly along with military aid.

    https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-stop-uk-aid-to-israel-both-financially-and-militarily

    Along with foreign and military aid, the German government also runs programs specifically to help Israelis start businesses in tech fields.

    http://www.existstartupgermany.com

    Why exactly does Israel need foreign aid if it is a nation or tireless geniuses?

    Good summary.

    One correction though: The Germans did NOT supply nuclear subs (which implies nuclear power propulsion systems).

    The German subs are very sophisticated conventional propulsion submarines which are capable of nuclear armament. HdC

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    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    My mistake. The subs are usually called nuclear subs in the press, but Germany didn't supply nuclear weapons. Since Israel already has the weapons, the subs are usually called nuclear, though they weren't fitted with nuclear weapons when delivered to Israel.

    Then again, since Israel has never admitted to having nuclear weapons, or allowed inspections, it's even wrong to say that the subs will have nuclear armaments. Until we know for sure, we should all assume that the Israelis are bottling soda at Dimona.

    I guess one more advantage Israel has is the ability to lie to the international community about its nuclear and biological weapons capabilities and programs, and not be bombed back to the stone-age. That's priceless.
  70. @Mao Cheng Ji
    There was a war in Chechnya (a province of Russia), where Chechens, Russians, and others fought against Chechen, Arab, and other militant wahhabists. Government forces had won, and the place is peaceful now, and it's governed by the Chechens, the native population.

    And in Palestine, a bunch of militant Europeans moved in, ethnically cleansed most of the local population, and created a settler-colonialist entity in the middle of the Arab world. Thus creating the ongoing disaster and endless conflict.

    In other words, these two stories have nothing whatsoever in common.

    What does that have to do with anything? If Israel applied the same methods that Russia did against Chechnya, then the result would be much the same in Chechnya. Chechen separatists didn’t give up because you explained to them that they are in the wrong.

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  71. @HdC
    Good summary.

    One correction though: The Germans did NOT supply nuclear subs (which implies nuclear power propulsion systems).

    The German subs are very sophisticated conventional propulsion submarines which are capable of nuclear armament. HdC

    My mistake. The subs are usually called nuclear subs in the press, but Germany didn’t supply nuclear weapons. Since Israel already has the weapons, the subs are usually called nuclear, though they weren’t fitted with nuclear weapons when delivered to Israel.

    Then again, since Israel has never admitted to having nuclear weapons, or allowed inspections, it’s even wrong to say that the subs will have nuclear armaments. Until we know for sure, we should all assume that the Israelis are bottling soda at Dimona.

    I guess one more advantage Israel has is the ability to lie to the international community about its nuclear and biological weapons capabilities and programs, and not be bombed back to the stone-age. That’s priceless.

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    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    Every thing about the shitty little country is drenched with lies.
  72. Really – Why all this now and about Israel now?

    Things are worse between India and Pakistan. Four big wars and fighting over Kashmir much worse than what is going on in Israel! Bombay under attack for days!

    1. Indians and Pakistanis are nowhere near as influential as Jews in American politics.
    2. If you compare India and Pakistan to Israel, Jews will become indignant, Americans will scoff, etc.
    3. Indians and Pakistanis are not the vanguard and brain trust working against White ethnonationalism, while pursuing it themselves in their homelands.
    4. India and Pakistan are not held up as “our greatest ally.”
    5. Indians and Pakistanis are not holding the American megaphone, portraying themselves as “a light unto the nations,” the world’s conscience, oh-so-leftist and tolerant and multicultural, etc.

    In short, Indians and Pakistanis aren’t all up in my shit.

    This is what I refer to as “lying by venue.” Zionists really are inveterate liars. They routinely say things to one audience, designed to appeal to that audiences’ sensibilities, that would go over like a lead balloon, or get them lynched, given a different audience. And they will say something completely contradictory to their first argument, to the second audience. Their words are worthless, basically.

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    • Agree: Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Tony
    3. Indians and Pakistanis are not the vanguard and brain trust working against White ethnonationalism, while pursuing it themselves in their homelands.
    10. Indians and Pakistanis aren’t 35-40% of the Forbes 400.
    11. Indians and Pakistanis aren’t the heart and soul of the open borders lobby.

    Not yet, but its coming.
  73. Every time you hear a Zionist say, “oh, but x country gets to get away with y,” keep foremost in mind that he is creating the proper category for Israel to be grouped in with. France, Germany, United States, Canada, Japan, Australia, UK? No. It’s Russia, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, India, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.

    This same category should be used in other contexts: how much we should trust Israel, how much aid we should give them, how moral their citizens are, how moral their gov’t is, how prestigious their citizenship is, how much respect we should have for them as a nation, the proper place of the Jewish race in the racial standing sweepstakes, etc.

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  74. 6. We don’t routinely trust people with loyalties to India or Pakistan in American security posts, or with our secrets.
    7. There’s nowhere near the taboo on questioning Indian or Pakistani loyalty, as there is with Jews.
    8. Nobody pretends there’s a routine confluence of interests between the USA and India or Pakistan, while it’s almost mandatory to believe this of the USA and Israel.
    9. Everybody knows India and Pakistan are shitholes.
    10. Indians and Pakistanis aren’t 35-40% of the Forbes 400.
    11. Indians and Pakistanis aren’t the heart and soul of the open borders lobby.
    12. India and Pakistan are not lauded for their supposed enlightened values, as outposts of western civilization, etc.

    Get the fucking picture now?

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  75. “But mommy mommy – Johnny does it!”

    “No iffy – we are better then Johnny.”

    p.s. Being no better then the worst – is being very bad.

    “Mommy, are the Jews like us?”

    “No, honey. They’re like the Russians, Turks, Arabs, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis, etc. Just ask them, they’ll tell you.”

    “Oh, and the Apartheid South Africans. They’re a lot like the Apartheid South Africans.”

    Read More
  76. Already, J Street, the liberal Jewish lobby that backs a two-state solution in Palestine…

    How much you wanna bet that neither of these two “states” will be Christian?

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    • Replies: @Karl
    > How much you wanna bet that neither of these two “states” will be Christian?

    It is the Christian-State-Church countries of Scandinavia & UK which are THE MOST cucked by Muslims
  77. “Oh, and the Apartheid South Africans. They’re a lot like the Apartheid South Africans.”

    They were allied with the “Apartheid South Africans”, albeit discreetly.

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  78. 13. Jews claim Whiteness when it suits them, but they don’t suffer from the double-standard (very much supported, propagated, enforced, and strengthened by Jews) that says Whites must be held to a higher standard.

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  79. @Marcus
    I am, of course, referring to John Lennon, an "icon" among your fellow New Left manchildren.

    And I’m not against cultural identification, as long is it isn’t an obsession used as a tool of tribal animosity and aggression.
     
    Humans are tribal by nature, always have been, always will be. There's nothing more potent than ties of blood and shared memories, see my link about Einstein (hardly a proto-Likudnik) and his views on Jewishness.

    I am, of course, referring to John Lennon, an “icon” among your fellow New Left manchildren.

    Lennon and Ronald Reagan bumped into one another despite their hosts’ desperate attempts to keep them apart. Reagan put his arm around Lennon and explained the rules of American football, and Lennon was enchanted.

    Must be that half-quantum of Irish blood they shared. And/or the memories (or lack thereof) of reckless Irish fathers. So much for universalism.

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    • Replies: @Matra
    John Wayne, not Ronald Reagan, met John Lennon.
  80. @iffen
    Crimea

    You’d have done better with the Kurile Islands before the post WW2 exemption was imposed.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    My point was that the lines in the Ukraine are being re-drawn by force or the threat of force.

    This happens all the time: The Balkans, Sudan, Indonesia, Iraq?, Syria?

  81. @Reg Cæsar

    I am, of course, referring to John Lennon, an “icon” among your fellow New Left manchildren.
     
    Lennon and Ronald Reagan bumped into one another despite their hosts' desperate attempts to keep them apart. Reagan put his arm around Lennon and explained the rules of American football, and Lennon was enchanted.

    Must be that half-quantum of Irish blood they shared. And/or the memories (or lack thereof) of reckless Irish fathers. So much for universalism.

    John Wayne, not Ronald Reagan, met John Lennon.

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  82. @anon
    Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?

    > Even so WHY should America give Israel three billion dollars each and every year?

    to stop it from going to Loretta Lynch & Eric Holder?

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  83. @Reg Cæsar

    Already, J Street, the liberal Jewish lobby that backs a two-state solution in Palestine...
     
    How much you wanna bet that neither of these two "states" will be Christian?

    > How much you wanna bet that neither of these two “states” will be Christian?

    It is the Christian-State-Church countries of Scandinavia & UK which are THE MOST cucked by Muslims

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    • Replies: @5371
    Christianity in much of Scandinavia is barely even a memory.
  84. @Mao Cheng Ji

    So you would be okay with Tibetans, and only ethnic Tibetans, conducting a referendum on whether to remain a part of China?
     
    No, why only ethnic Tibetans? That's not how things are done. Leave your ethnicity at home. All Tibetan society. Just like in N.Ireland, where both Catholics and Protestants vote.

    But in any case, this is not a Crimea/Ukraine-like situation. China is a stable state today, sovereign state. As such, it imposes its own rules. Just like the US of A - Texas can't secede from the union, not peacefully, it's just not allowed. But when there is a revolution in Beijing and the government falls, then, sure, it becomes free for all... Secessions, civil wars, the whole nine yards...

    Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng Confused – Jews always resided in Israel and Judea and Samaria and Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and they are native to the middle east region. Right now Israel is about 50% European Jews and 50% Arab Jews from places like Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Morocco, Yemen, Lebanon, Tunisia, Libya and ME country Iran and some even from India; further more Jews from Ethiopia and some black Jews from USA. Israel is a multi cultural country. There are Arabs living in Israel too who are Israeli citizens – Xn muslim allawites druze samarians etc. So not only European white Jews live in Israel. All kinds of people live in Israel.

    Also many of the Arabs in Palestine are converted from Judaism to Islam and Xnism so to say that ethnic religious cultural Jews have no right to live in Israel is like saying that any Egyptian Arab has no right to live in so called ‘palestine’.

    So Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng wants ethnic cleansing? So called Arabs in Judea and Samaria also from all over the world and there is no such thing as a pure Palestine Arab. The Arabs in so called ‘palestine’ are from Egypt Syria Iraq Lebanon etc. All countries all over the world have people living in them from all over the world. This is the 21st century.

    Bottom line – Present Islamic tendency is violent and disposed toward violence.

    And the fighting has nothing to do with the European Jews. Muslims and Arabs fight with each other and everyone else. Look at Iran -Iraq war (1 million dead) Syrian Civil War (500k dead) all the bombings and at mosques shiite and sunni all over the uma (world of Islam.) Islamic world is in a violent deadly posture and this is nothing new and has nothing to do with Jews or Israel.

    So if Palestine is for the Arabs the Arab Jews in Palestine are in the right place and they can associate with whomever they want including their European brothers and sisters, n’est pas?

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    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng Confused – Jews always resided in Israel and Judea and Samaria and Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and they are native to the middle east region.
     
    Followers of Judaism have always resided in the ME, that's correct. They were integrated into the ME societies, they were part of them. Just like the Druze, for example. No one objects to that.

    But Bibi Netanyahu is not one of them, he's a Polak. Millions of Central and Eastern Europeans are not them. People from Brooklyn and Fort Lauderdale are not them. They are settler-colonialists who moved to Palestine, terrorized the locals, expelled 800,000 native population in 1947-48, and have been controlling the region and spreading murder and mayhem within Palestine, as well as in neighboring states, and all over the world, ever since.

  85. @Svigor

    Really – Why all this now and about Israel now?

    Things are worse between India and Pakistan. Four big wars and fighting over Kashmir much worse than what is going on in Israel! Bombay under attack for days!
     
    1. Indians and Pakistanis are nowhere near as influential as Jews in American politics.
    2. If you compare India and Pakistan to Israel, Jews will become indignant, Americans will scoff, etc.
    3. Indians and Pakistanis are not the vanguard and brain trust working against White ethnonationalism, while pursuing it themselves in their homelands.
    4. India and Pakistan are not held up as "our greatest ally."
    5. Indians and Pakistanis are not holding the American megaphone, portraying themselves as "a light unto the nations," the world's conscience, oh-so-leftist and tolerant and multicultural, etc.

    In short, Indians and Pakistanis aren't all up in my shit.

    This is what I refer to as "lying by venue." Zionists really are inveterate liars. They routinely say things to one audience, designed to appeal to that audiences' sensibilities, that would go over like a lead balloon, or get them lynched, given a different audience. And they will say something completely contradictory to their first argument, to the second audience. Their words are worthless, basically.

    3. Indians and Pakistanis are not the vanguard and brain trust working against White ethnonationalism, while pursuing it themselves in their homelands.
    10. Indians and Pakistanis aren’t 35-40% of the Forbes 400.
    11. Indians and Pakistanis aren’t the heart and soul of the open borders lobby.

    Not yet, but its coming.

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  86. @OilcanFloyd
    My mistake. The subs are usually called nuclear subs in the press, but Germany didn't supply nuclear weapons. Since Israel already has the weapons, the subs are usually called nuclear, though they weren't fitted with nuclear weapons when delivered to Israel.

    Then again, since Israel has never admitted to having nuclear weapons, or allowed inspections, it's even wrong to say that the subs will have nuclear armaments. Until we know for sure, we should all assume that the Israelis are bottling soda at Dimona.

    I guess one more advantage Israel has is the ability to lie to the international community about its nuclear and biological weapons capabilities and programs, and not be bombed back to the stone-age. That's priceless.

    Every thing about the shitty little country is drenched with lies.

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  87. @Svigor

    “By standing with the sworn enemies of Israel to enable the passage of this destructive, one-sided anti-Israel rant and tirade,” writes the Washington Times, “Mr. Obama shows his colors.”
     
    "Sworn enemies of Israel" seems like a pretty long list. Say, every country on the planet except the USA, and Israel herself. Seems much more efficient to list the exceptions (USA, Israel) instead.

    While this changes exactly nothing on the ground in the West Bank or East Jerusalem where 600,000 Israelis now reside, it will have consequences, and few of them will be positive for Israel.
     
    Indeed, the champions of the oppressed will be rubbing Zionists noses in this constantly, for decades to come. The phrase "rallying cry" comes to mind.

    Already, J Street, the liberal Jewish lobby that backs a two-state solution in Palestine — and has been denounced by Donald Trump’s new envoy to Israel David Friedman as “far worse than kapos,” the Jewish guards at Nazi concentration camps — has endorsed the resolution.
     
    J Street serves at least one purpose that is never mentioned by Big Media, GOPe, etc; as Jewish fig leaf. It's of a piece with the typical Jewish strategy of funding (and subverting) both sides of an issue important to them. But like many weapons in an open society, this one is a double-edged sword: AIPAC's revenue is thirty times J Street's. That's right; the conservative, hard-line Israel lobby is thirty times as funded (and thus, supported) as the moderate Israel lobby. That smoke trail you see is the notion that Jews' leftist bona fides are genuine, going down in flames (the Jon Lovitz reflex is to point out that AIPAC's been around much longer than J Street, but that's just another way of saying the same thing).

    Along similar lines, J Street can draw cash away from any less Jewish-Supremacist alternatives. And give all those idle, rich Jewish hands something to do besides become a Devil's Workshop.

    Republicans are moving to exploit the opening by denouncing the resolution and the U.N. and showing solidarity with Israel. Goal: Replace the Democratic Party as the most reliable ally of Israel, and reap the rewards of an historic transfer of Jewish political allegiance.
     
    A RINO move. The Jews will force the GOPe to move further left, to stay in their good graces.

    That Jimmy Carter was seen as cold to Israel enabled Ronald Reagan to capture more than a third of the Jewish vote in 1980, on his way to a 44-state landslide.
     
    The Jewish vote isn't worth much, especially compared to Jewish money. An ant next to an anthill.

    Well, it seems to me this is a completely unserious matter. There are dozens of UNSC resolutions condemning Israel
     
    When was the last one? If memory serves, it was thirty-odd years ago. This one is fresh, it'll be another thirty-odd years before Zionists can call it ancient history.

    Bringing this resolution to a vote was a good way for some to bring the spotlight back onto Israel and away from Syria, Russia, Turkey, Yemen & Iraq. Human rights & human lives seem to be of little account in those places but the U.N. is going to train it’s unrighteous eye on Israel.
     
    Russia isn't doing anything like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Russia even managed to come to a modus vivendi with friggin' Chechnia, for Pete's sake. Syria is in the middle of a vicious civil war, you dunce. Turkey is slowly descending into typical Muslim nuthouse status, but 1) They still aren't doing anything like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, 2) If Israel wants to be compared to typical Muslim nuthouse countries as a matter of course, well, okay, I can go along with that. Yemen is in the middle of a civil war, you dunce. Iraq is just coming out of being in the middle of a civil war, you dunce.

    These are the countries that spring to your mind, for comparison with Israel: Muslim crap holes in the throes of civil war, Muslim crap holes that have been invaded and occupied for ten years by the US, and are just coming out of civil wars, and pseudo-civilized Muslim countries in a slide toward becoming Muslim crap holes.

    But I don't recall US policy toward any of those countries being anything at all like US policy toward Israel. On the contrary, Israel is "our greatest ally"...

    If Trump is as dedicated and devious as I hope he is (I doubt it), he's positioning himself to use Israel as a cudgel against the Jewish diaspora. "I love walls, I want one just like the Israeli wall." "I love Israel's immigration policies, I think I'll try them here." "Israel's on to something with their 'country for a nation' thing, maybe we should give those kinds of folks some breathing room here in America." "How can we support these people in Israel, but demonize them here?" "Majoritarian rule seems to work very well in Israel. Have I told you how much I love Love LOVE Israel?" "I'm just taking a cue from Our Greatest Ally; Israel doesn't do Affirmative Action, so why should we?" Etc.

    Your arguable points would seem stronger if you didn’t suggest large areas of ignorance on your part by saying that Israel has no friends (or non hostile relations) apart from the US. Australia, Singapore and Canada are just some of the sigificant exceptions.

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  88. @OilcanFloyd
    Israel also apparently got its nuclear subs from Germany for a steal. Israel would likely be not much different than its neighbors if it only got $3 billion per year. The benefits Israel gets are immeasurable. France was a huge benefactor for years, Germany still is, and apparently Britain still gives lots of aid to Israel. Looking at American aid to Israel, which is far greater than the $3 billion per year acknowledged, is only a part of the picture. How many nations give to Israel? Is it down to three at this point?

    According to this website, Britain give Israel 6 billion PS yearly along with military aid.

    https://www.change.org/p/the-prime-minister-stop-uk-aid-to-israel-both-financially-and-militarily

    Along with foreign and military aid, the German government also runs programs specifically to help Israelis start businesses in tech fields.

    http://www.existstartupgermany.com

    Why exactly does Israel need foreign aid if it is a nation or tireless geniuses?

    I looked at your first link and, as well as a general air of fecklessness about the change.org I noted the absurd implausibility of the bald assertion that the UK was giving Israel £6 billion a year in addition to “military aid”. A very brief check discloses the ending of development aid in 1999 and that there is no military aid, only sales.

    Your reference to the German startup finance seems to be similarly random frivolity on a serious subject. Who wouldn’t want to get in on the ground floor with smart Israeli entrepreneurs? I have certainly tried though, as with most government attempts to pick winners I, and a lot of smarter much richer investors, did our dough on the big one!

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    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    With regards to UK aid to Israel, I stated that the UK apparently gives the aid, based on the link I posted, and it may be the case. The UK is apparently not as upfront as the U.S. about its aid to Israel, and the U.S. isn't all that upfront about how it benefits Israel. I assume there is some truth to the claim of UK aid to Israel. Do you claim that it is an outright lie? I'll look at the proof otherwise, but I couldn't find anything to refute it, and a refutation wouldn't erase the massive aid that Israel otherwise gets, which is the point.

    I don't think that anyone would believe that Germans are the main beneficiaries of a program set up by the German government to specifically shower Israelis with technology and money. That looks like another form of reparations and tech transfer to Israel.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel and the German program, it doesn't change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.
  89. @smoke signals
    Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng Confused - Jews always resided in Israel and Judea and Samaria and Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and they are native to the middle east region. Right now Israel is about 50% European Jews and 50% Arab Jews from places like Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Morocco, Yemen, Lebanon, Tunisia, Libya and ME country Iran and some even from India; further more Jews from Ethiopia and some black Jews from USA. Israel is a multi cultural country. There are Arabs living in Israel too who are Israeli citizens - Xn muslim allawites druze samarians etc. So not only European white Jews live in Israel. All kinds of people live in Israel.

    Also many of the Arabs in Palestine are converted from Judaism to Islam and Xnism so to say that ethnic religious cultural Jews have no right to live in Israel is like saying that any Egyptian Arab has no right to live in so called 'palestine'.

    So Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng wants ethnic cleansing? So called Arabs in Judea and Samaria also from all over the world and there is no such thing as a pure Palestine Arab. The Arabs in so called 'palestine' are from Egypt Syria Iraq Lebanon etc. All countries all over the world have people living in them from all over the world. This is the 21st century.

    Bottom line - Present Islamic tendency is violent and disposed toward violence.

    And the fighting has nothing to do with the European Jews. Muslims and Arabs fight with each other and everyone else. Look at Iran -Iraq war (1 million dead) Syrian Civil War (500k dead) all the bombings and at mosques shiite and sunni all over the uma (world of Islam.) Islamic world is in a violent deadly posture and this is nothing new and has nothing to do with Jews or Israel.

    So if Palestine is for the Arabs the Arab Jews in Palestine are in the right place and they can associate with whomever they want including their European brothers and sisters, n'est pas?

    Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng Confused – Jews always resided in Israel and Judea and Samaria and Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and they are native to the middle east region.

    Followers of Judaism have always resided in the ME, that’s correct. They were integrated into the ME societies, they were part of them. Just like the Druze, for example. No one objects to that.

    But Bibi Netanyahu is not one of them, he’s a Polak. Millions of Central and Eastern Europeans are not them. People from Brooklyn and Fort Lauderdale are not them. They are settler-colonialists who moved to Palestine, terrorized the locals, expelled 800,000 native population in 1947-48, and have been controlling the region and spreading murder and mayhem within Palestine, as well as in neighboring states, and all over the world, ever since.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    They are settler-colonialists

    Does this label apply to the Han in Tibet?
    , @SolontoCroesus

    expelled 800,000 native population in 1947-48, and have been controlling the region and spreading murder and mayhem within Palestine, as well as in neighboring states, and all over the world, ever since.
     
    holocaust revisionist (or that most dreadful of all epithets, denier ) that I am, I quibble with your timeline:

    Zionist "murder and mayhem . . . all over the world" did not start in 1947-48 when zionists expelled Palestinians and declared Israel a state.

    Zionism is way up there as an antagonist for the destruction of Christians in Russia and Poland, beginning at the turn of the century when Jacob Schiff paid the Japanese to do battle with the Russian monarch (Hitler was still wearing short pants and singing in the choir at a Benedictine monastery school).

    Zionists started displacing and undermining Palestinian Arabs, their homes, culture, institutions and business interests as early as 1910, when zionist Jews built Tel Aviv-- on the model of a European city, to "make settlers feel at home," -- hard by the prosperous Arab port at Jaffa, the better to undermine Arab trade and commerce.

    zionist (or at least Jewish) agitation heated up significantly in Nov. 1917, when Bolsheviks derailed the revolt of the Russian people and Communists staged a revolution of their own.

    zionism was a primary causal factor for US entry into the first world war, 1917;

    zionists ran the table at Versailles in 1918 and set up the circumstances for a repeat of world war;

    Levels of "murder and mayhem" only got worse over time, for Palestinian in their land, and for Germans in the chaotic Weimar era, dominated, as it was, by Jews; groaning under a massive migration of Eastern European Jews to Germany, and destabilized, as it was, by Bolsheviks.

    Very shortly after National Socialists took power in January 1933, Louis Brandeis, zionism's capo tuti capo, issued the directive: All Jews must leave Germany; all 587,000 of them must leave.

    The implications and importance of this directive cannot be overstated, and no understanding of the causes and effects of the second world war are complete without fully exploring that statement of Brandeis's. Yet, of the dozens, perhaps hundreds, of books and movies about the holocaust, most of them by Jews, I have seen Brandeis's directive referenced in only two: Rabbi Stephen Wise's autobiography, and Edwin Black's The Transfer Agreement.

    In 1935, Vladimir Jabotinsky, leader of militant zionism, issued a statement of the immediate goals of zionism, among them the "ingathering of all diaspora Jews to Palestine."

    By 1937, the zionist Jewish colonization in Palestine was the most prosperous region in the world, in the midst of the Great Depression. Tel Aviv's narrow streets were crowded with chauffeured Mercedes Benzes delivering fur-clad German Jews to their residences. Zionist Jews had several well-financed and armed terror gangs operating throughout France, Germany, Austria and Italy, as well as Palestine, where Jewish terror gangs did battle with their British protectors as well as indigenous Arabs.

    That 1937 date puts so-called Kristallnacht, November 1938, in a whole new light: zionist Jews had been attempting to persuade, or shepherd, or frighten, or coerce German Jews to leave their comfortable homes and situations in Germany and take their wealth to Palestine, or to USA, whither zionism had transferred its international headquarters.

    Many German Jews, however, remained reluctant, and more forceful measures were called for, to incentivize them to leave their synagogues and homes and businesses. Jews were in Exodus-mode and Germany was Egypt. If you wanna make a zionist omelet, you gotta break some glass.


    To be sure, Hitler and the Third Reich were fully supportive of efforts to remove Jews from Germany, for their own reasons. But a statement in a lecture by David Engel, scholar of the (alleged) holocaust, that "zionists and the German government collaborated on plans to resettle Jews in Madagascar or Poland," raises the intriguing question: when Germans rounded up Jews and sent them on trains to the East were cooperating with zionist directives?


    zionism is the primary causal factor for the second world war and the deliberate destruction of Germany and the German people.

    zionists, within and without US government, military, and intelligence networks, were major players in the subversion, firebombing, rape, looting, psychological warfare and cognitive occupation of Germany.



    The timeline that we mindlessly parrot turns cause-and-effect upside down; anyone who can count from one to 45, or from 1903 to 1948; and understand the cause-and-effect relationships within that basic timeline, cannot be anything other than a holocaust denier.

    (I suppose an exception should be made for Wiz of Oz: when Australians stand up, they are upside down, isn't that right?)

  90. @Marcus
    I am, of course, referring to John Lennon, an "icon" among your fellow New Left manchildren.

    And I’m not against cultural identification, as long is it isn’t an obsession used as a tool of tribal animosity and aggression.
     
    Humans are tribal by nature, always have been, always will be. There's nothing more potent than ties of blood and shared memories, see my link about Einstein (hardly a proto-Likudnik) and his views on Jewishness.

    Humans are not tribal, it’s just that some get sentimental about their native, old, ‘back in the day’ culture, as they become older.

    And of course there are no such things as “ties of blood and shared memories”, these are metaphors. Metaphors, again, describing cultural idiosyncrasies: the food, the songs, the jokes, the body language, basic ethical judgments, other little familiars (though insignificant) details. Like I said, there’s nothing wrong with that, as long it doesn’t become an obsession with victimization complex attached to it.

    I must say, in all fairness, I understand, of course, how it could happened in the aftermath of WWII (Zionism wasn’t popular at all before Nazism came in full swing), but come on, that was a long time ago. It’s different times now; whole new, different generations. Enough is enough.

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    • Replies: @Marcus
    Again, all of human history and modern science disagree with you, but you're welcome to cling to your 1960s fantasy, just be prepared to be bitchslapped by reality eventually.
  91. @OilcanFloyd
    Doesn't America give much more than the official $3 or 4 billion annually? Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid, oil/energy guarantees, weapons and technology transfers, weapons to use.....The list goes on and on, and that's not counting what Germany and other nations have given Israel over the years.

    Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid

    Which loans guaranteed by the US has Israel not repaid? Israel’s credit rating is investment grade, similar to those of Ireland and Japan: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/israel/rating

    If Israel defaulted on a loan guaranteed by the US, the US would be stuck with the bill, and if that happened, would be unlikely to guarantee future loans. I don’t know of an instance of that happening, but I’d think it would be big news if it did.

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    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    I'm aware of Israel's credit rating. Funny thing is that it wasn't so great in 1991. What's changed? It just appears that Israel is too small to fail.

    "American loan guarantees could save Israel as much as $200 million a year in interest payments, said John F. H. Purcell, the director of the sovereign research group at Salomon Brothers Inc. This is because Israel has a BBB credit rating, forcing it to borrow at an interest rate that is 2 percentage points higher than the rate for United States Government-guaranteed debt, he said."

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/23/world/us-aid-to-israel-77-billion-since-67.html

    How does Israel not repay loans when it is showered with more than enough money to repay the loans, and then there's the claim that Israel's loans are really grants in disguise, and never meant to be repaid in the first place. Why is Israel still getting the loan guarantees now that is has such a high credit rating?

    "Further, friends of Israel never tire of saying that Israel has never defaulted on repayment of a U.S. government loan. It would be equally accurate to say Israel has never been required to repay a U.S. government loan. The truth of the matter is complex, and designed to be so by those who seek to conceal it from the U.S. taxpayer.

    Most U.S. loans to Israel are forgiven, and many were made with the explicit understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them. By disguising as loans what in fact were grants, cooperating members of Congress exempted Israel from the U.S. oversight that would have accompanied grants. On other loans, Israel was expected to pay the interest and eventually to begin repaying the principal. But the so-called Cranston Amendment, which has been attached by Congress to every foreign aid appropriation since 1983, provides that economic aid to Israel will never dip below the amount Israel is required to pay on its outstanding loans. In short, whether U.S. aid is extended as grants or loans to Israel, it never returns to the Treasury."

    http://www.wrmea.org/1997-december/the-cost-of-israel-to-u.s.-taxpayers-true-lies-about-u.s.-aid-to-israel.html

    I assume that the above quote is accurate, and that the situation is much worse (for the U.S.) since 9-11.

    " But Israel has already received nearly $10 billion in loan guarantees from the United States since 1992, and while it has yet to default on any of those loans, this new round of guarantees is intended in part to help Israel pay off the old debt. Which means the United States could be stuck with a bill ranging anywhere from zero to $9 billion plus interest."

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2003/08/what_are_israels_loan_guarantees.html

    Sounds reasonable to me. Too small to fail! It must be nice to have a never-ending line of credit that the creditors will eat. Apparently, none of the money loaned ever makes its way back into the U.S. treasury. Whatever the truth is, I still stand by my claim that Israel receives far more than $3 billion annually, and that Israel receives extraordinary privileges from the U.S. and other nations. I'd even guess that Israel would be much more like Syria or Lebanon (had those nations not been destroyed and impoverished to benefit Israel) if Israel weren't the recipient of massive aid and freebies of all sorts that no other nation seems to get.
  92. @Karl
    > How much you wanna bet that neither of these two “states” will be Christian?

    It is the Christian-State-Church countries of Scandinavia & UK which are THE MOST cucked by Muslims

    Christianity in much of Scandinavia is barely even a memory.

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  93. @Matra
    John Wayne, not Ronald Reagan, met John Lennon.

    No, he’s right.

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    • Replies: @Matra
    I stand corrected. I thought Lennon and Wayne were once in the booth together on Monday Night Football but it seems they were on MNF on different nights.
  94. @OutWest
    You’d have done better with the Kurile Islands before the post WW2 exemption was imposed.

    My point was that the lines in the Ukraine are being re-drawn by force or the threat of force.

    This happens all the time: The Balkans, Sudan, Indonesia, Iraq?, Syria?

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  95. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng Confused – Jews always resided in Israel and Judea and Samaria and Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and they are native to the middle east region.
     
    Followers of Judaism have always resided in the ME, that's correct. They were integrated into the ME societies, they were part of them. Just like the Druze, for example. No one objects to that.

    But Bibi Netanyahu is not one of them, he's a Polak. Millions of Central and Eastern Europeans are not them. People from Brooklyn and Fort Lauderdale are not them. They are settler-colonialists who moved to Palestine, terrorized the locals, expelled 800,000 native population in 1947-48, and have been controlling the region and spreading murder and mayhem within Palestine, as well as in neighboring states, and all over the world, ever since.

    They are settler-colonialists

    Does this label apply to the Han in Tibet?

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  96. @Mao Cheng Ji
    Humans are not tribal, it's just that some get sentimental about their native, old, 'back in the day' culture, as they become older.

    And of course there are no such things as "ties of blood and shared memories", these are metaphors. Metaphors, again, describing cultural idiosyncrasies: the food, the songs, the jokes, the body language, basic ethical judgments, other little familiars (though insignificant) details. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with that, as long it doesn't become an obsession with victimization complex attached to it.

    I must say, in all fairness, I understand, of course, how it could happened in the aftermath of WWII (Zionism wasn't popular at all before Nazism came in full swing), but come on, that was a long time ago. It's different times now; whole new, different generations. Enough is enough.

    Again, all of human history and modern science disagree with you, but you’re welcome to cling to your 1960s fantasy, just be prepared to be bitchslapped by reality eventually.

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  97. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Mao Ji Mao Ji Cheng Confused – Jews always resided in Israel and Judea and Samaria and Lebanon and Syria and Iraq and they are native to the middle east region.
     
    Followers of Judaism have always resided in the ME, that's correct. They were integrated into the ME societies, they were part of them. Just like the Druze, for example. No one objects to that.

    But Bibi Netanyahu is not one of them, he's a Polak. Millions of Central and Eastern Europeans are not them. People from Brooklyn and Fort Lauderdale are not them. They are settler-colonialists who moved to Palestine, terrorized the locals, expelled 800,000 native population in 1947-48, and have been controlling the region and spreading murder and mayhem within Palestine, as well as in neighboring states, and all over the world, ever since.

    expelled 800,000 native population in 1947-48, and have been controlling the region and spreading murder and mayhem within Palestine, as well as in neighboring states, and all over the world, ever since.

    holocaust revisionist (or that most dreadful of all epithets, denier ) that I am, I quibble with your timeline:

    Zionist “murder and mayhem . . . all over the world” did not start in 1947-48 when zionists expelled Palestinians and declared Israel a state.

    Zionism is way up there as an antagonist for the destruction of Christians in Russia and Poland, beginning at the turn of the century when Jacob Schiff paid the Japanese to do battle with the Russian monarch (Hitler was still wearing short pants and singing in the choir at a Benedictine monastery school).

    Zionists started displacing and undermining Palestinian Arabs, their homes, culture, institutions and business interests as early as 1910, when zionist Jews built Tel Aviv– on the model of a European city, to “make settlers feel at home,” — hard by the prosperous Arab port at Jaffa, the better to undermine Arab trade and commerce.

    zionist (or at least Jewish) agitation heated up significantly in Nov. 1917, when Bolsheviks derailed the revolt of the Russian people and Communists staged a revolution of their own.

    zionism was a primary causal factor for US entry into the first world war, 1917;

    zionists ran the table at Versailles in 1918 and set up the circumstances for a repeat of world war;

    Levels of “murder and mayhem” only got worse over time, for Palestinian in their land, and for Germans in the chaotic Weimar era, dominated, as it was, by Jews; groaning under a massive migration of Eastern European Jews to Germany, and destabilized, as it was, by Bolsheviks.

    Very shortly after National Socialists took power in January 1933, Louis Brandeis, zionism’s capo tuti capo, issued the directive: All Jews must leave Germany; all 587,000 of them must leave.

    The implications and importance of this directive cannot be overstated, and no understanding of the causes and effects of the second world war are complete without fully exploring that statement of Brandeis’s. Yet, of the dozens, perhaps hundreds, of books and movies about the holocaust, most of them by Jews, I have seen Brandeis’s directive referenced in only two: Rabbi Stephen Wise’s autobiography, and Edwin Black’s The Transfer Agreement.

    In 1935, Vladimir Jabotinsky, leader of militant zionism, issued a statement of the immediate goals of zionism, among them the “ingathering of all diaspora Jews to Palestine.”

    By 1937, the zionist Jewish colonization in Palestine was the most prosperous region in the world, in the midst of the Great Depression. Tel Aviv’s narrow streets were crowded with chauffeured Mercedes Benzes delivering fur-clad German Jews to their residences. Zionist Jews had several well-financed and armed terror gangs operating throughout France, Germany, Austria and Italy, as well as Palestine, where Jewish terror gangs did battle with their British protectors as well as indigenous Arabs.

    That 1937 date puts so-called Kristallnacht, November 1938, in a whole new light: zionist Jews had been attempting to persuade, or shepherd, or frighten, or coerce German Jews to leave their comfortable homes and situations in Germany and take their wealth to Palestine, or to USA, whither zionism had transferred its international headquarters.

    Many German Jews, however, remained reluctant, and more forceful measures were called for, to incentivize them to leave their synagogues and homes and businesses. Jews were in Exodus-mode and Germany was Egypt. If you wanna make a zionist omelet, you gotta break some glass.

    To be sure, Hitler and the Third Reich were fully supportive of efforts to remove Jews from Germany, for their own reasons. But a statement in a lecture by David Engel, scholar of the (alleged) holocaust, that “zionists and the German government collaborated on plans to resettle Jews in Madagascar or Poland,” raises the intriguing question: when Germans rounded up Jews and sent them on trains to the East were cooperating with zionist directives?

    zionism is the primary causal factor for the second world war and the deliberate destruction of Germany and the German people.

    zionists, within and without US government, military, and intelligence networks, were major players in the subversion, firebombing, rape, looting, psychological warfare and cognitive occupation of Germany.

    The timeline that we mindlessly parrot turns cause-and-effect upside down; anyone who can count from one to 45, or from 1903 to 1948; and understand the cause-and-effect relationships within that basic timeline, cannot be anything other than a holocaust denier.

    (I suppose an exception should be made for Wiz of Oz: when Australians stand up, they are upside down, isn’t that right?)

    Read More
  98. @5371
    No, he's right.

    I stand corrected. I thought Lennon and Wayne were once in the booth together on Monday Night Football but it seems they were on MNF on different nights.

    Read More
  99. @Wizard of Oz
    I looked at your first link and, as well as a general air of fecklessness about the change.org I noted the absurd implausibility of the bald assertion that the UK was giving Israel £6 billion a year in addition to "military aid". A very brief check discloses the ending of development aid in 1999 and that there is no military aid, only sales.

    Your reference to the German startup finance seems to be similarly random frivolity on a serious subject. Who wouldn't want to get in on the ground floor with smart Israeli entrepreneurs? I have certainly tried though, as with most government attempts to pick winners I, and a lot of smarter much richer investors, did our dough on the big one!

    With regards to UK aid to Israel, I stated that the UK apparently gives the aid, based on the link I posted, and it may be the case. The UK is apparently not as upfront as the U.S. about its aid to Israel, and the U.S. isn’t all that upfront about how it benefits Israel. I assume there is some truth to the claim of UK aid to Israel. Do you claim that it is an outright lie? I’ll look at the proof otherwise, but I couldn’t find anything to refute it, and a refutation wouldn’t erase the massive aid that Israel otherwise gets, which is the point.

    I don’t think that anyone would believe that Germans are the main beneficiaries of a program set up by the German government to specifically shower Israelis with technology and money. That looks like another form of reparations and tech transfer to Israel.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel and the German program, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    You confirm the impression of a rather haphazard way of making and supporting your points, especially your "I couldn't find anything to refute it".

    It took me about 10 seconds Googling to find this

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/63394/where-exactly-does-britains-122bn-foreign-aid-go

    Over 40 per cent of the UK's aid budget goes to international organisations. The top ten recipients of direct aid are listed and Israel isn't one of them (apparently it receives none at all). For the year Change.org was referring to the £6 billion would have been about 120 per cent of the direct ("bilateral") aid for the year! As the UK's piously internationalist achievement of 0.7 per cent of GDP in international aid is much criticised within the government party it is hardly likely that there are secret off budget payments in addition, let alone sums which would have nearly doubled the aid budget.

    So yes the overused word "lie" may well be appropriate - possibly of the big lie repeated often enough variety. Alternatively one might say that Change.org is a pretty dodgy source to base even a casual observation on.

  100. @Dave Pinsen

    Loan guarantees for loans that are supposedly never repaid
     
    Which loans guaranteed by the US has Israel not repaid? Israel's credit rating is investment grade, similar to those of Ireland and Japan: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/israel/rating

    If Israel defaulted on a loan guaranteed by the US, the US would be stuck with the bill, and if that happened, would be unlikely to guarantee future loans. I don't know of an instance of that happening, but I'd think it would be big news if it did.

    I’m aware of Israel’s credit rating. Funny thing is that it wasn’t so great in 1991. What’s changed? It just appears that Israel is too small to fail.

    “American loan guarantees could save Israel as much as $200 million a year in interest payments, said John F. H. Purcell, the director of the sovereign research group at Salomon Brothers Inc. This is because Israel has a BBB credit rating, forcing it to borrow at an interest rate that is 2 percentage points higher than the rate for United States Government-guaranteed debt, he said.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/23/world/us-aid-to-israel-77-billion-since-67.html

    How does Israel not repay loans when it is showered with more than enough money to repay the loans, and then there’s the claim that Israel’s loans are really grants in disguise, and never meant to be repaid in the first place. Why is Israel still getting the loan guarantees now that is has such a high credit rating?

    “Further, friends of Israel never tire of saying that Israel has never defaulted on repayment of a U.S. government loan. It would be equally accurate to say Israel has never been required to repay a U.S. government loan. The truth of the matter is complex, and designed to be so by those who seek to conceal it from the U.S. taxpayer.

    Most U.S. loans to Israel are forgiven, and many were made with the explicit understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them. By disguising as loans what in fact were grants, cooperating members of Congress exempted Israel from the U.S. oversight that would have accompanied grants. On other loans, Israel was expected to pay the interest and eventually to begin repaying the principal. But the so-called Cranston Amendment, which has been attached by Congress to every foreign aid appropriation since 1983, provides that economic aid to Israel will never dip below the amount Israel is required to pay on its outstanding loans. In short, whether U.S. aid is extended as grants or loans to Israel, it never returns to the Treasury.”

    http://www.wrmea.org/1997-december/the-cost-of-israel-to-u.s.-taxpayers-true-lies-about-u.s.-aid-to-israel.html

    I assume that the above quote is accurate, and that the situation is much worse (for the U.S.) since 9-11.

    ” But Israel has already received nearly $10 billion in loan guarantees from the United States since 1992, and while it has yet to default on any of those loans, this new round of guarantees is intended in part to help Israel pay off the old debt. Which means the United States could be stuck with a bill ranging anywhere from zero to $9 billion plus interest.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2003/08/what_are_israels_loan_guarantees.html

    Sounds reasonable to me. Too small to fail! It must be nice to have a never-ending line of credit that the creditors will eat. Apparently, none of the money loaned ever makes its way back into the U.S. treasury. Whatever the truth is, I still stand by my claim that Israel receives far more than $3 billion annually, and that Israel receives extraordinary privileges from the U.S. and other nations. I’d even guess that Israel would be much more like Syria or Lebanon (had those nations not been destroyed and impoverished to benefit Israel) if Israel weren’t the recipient of massive aid and freebies of all sorts that no other nation seems to get.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    I’d even guess that Israel would be much more like Syria or Lebanon (had those nations not been destroyed and impoverished to benefit Israel) if Israel weren’t the recipient of massive aid and freebies of all sorts that no other nation seems to get.
     
    Well, I strongly suspect that without constant cash injections Israel would've simply ceased to exit, and Palestine would've already been liberated. I imagine the number of fanatical Zionists is relatively small, insufficient to maintain the entity (not to mention that fanatics aren't usually good at management), and the rest of European colonizers would've quickly emigrated to lands with more milk and honey, and less hostile environment. It's a perfectly artificial entity.

    And actually, I believe the net migration has been negative for a while already, although they, of course, are hiding the stats...

    , @Dave Pinsen
    Ok, you answered it here:

    while it has yet to default on any of those loans
     
  101. @OilcanFloyd
    I'm aware of Israel's credit rating. Funny thing is that it wasn't so great in 1991. What's changed? It just appears that Israel is too small to fail.

    "American loan guarantees could save Israel as much as $200 million a year in interest payments, said John F. H. Purcell, the director of the sovereign research group at Salomon Brothers Inc. This is because Israel has a BBB credit rating, forcing it to borrow at an interest rate that is 2 percentage points higher than the rate for United States Government-guaranteed debt, he said."

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/23/world/us-aid-to-israel-77-billion-since-67.html

    How does Israel not repay loans when it is showered with more than enough money to repay the loans, and then there's the claim that Israel's loans are really grants in disguise, and never meant to be repaid in the first place. Why is Israel still getting the loan guarantees now that is has such a high credit rating?

    "Further, friends of Israel never tire of saying that Israel has never defaulted on repayment of a U.S. government loan. It would be equally accurate to say Israel has never been required to repay a U.S. government loan. The truth of the matter is complex, and designed to be so by those who seek to conceal it from the U.S. taxpayer.

    Most U.S. loans to Israel are forgiven, and many were made with the explicit understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them. By disguising as loans what in fact were grants, cooperating members of Congress exempted Israel from the U.S. oversight that would have accompanied grants. On other loans, Israel was expected to pay the interest and eventually to begin repaying the principal. But the so-called Cranston Amendment, which has been attached by Congress to every foreign aid appropriation since 1983, provides that economic aid to Israel will never dip below the amount Israel is required to pay on its outstanding loans. In short, whether U.S. aid is extended as grants or loans to Israel, it never returns to the Treasury."

    http://www.wrmea.org/1997-december/the-cost-of-israel-to-u.s.-taxpayers-true-lies-about-u.s.-aid-to-israel.html

    I assume that the above quote is accurate, and that the situation is much worse (for the U.S.) since 9-11.

    " But Israel has already received nearly $10 billion in loan guarantees from the United States since 1992, and while it has yet to default on any of those loans, this new round of guarantees is intended in part to help Israel pay off the old debt. Which means the United States could be stuck with a bill ranging anywhere from zero to $9 billion plus interest."

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2003/08/what_are_israels_loan_guarantees.html

    Sounds reasonable to me. Too small to fail! It must be nice to have a never-ending line of credit that the creditors will eat. Apparently, none of the money loaned ever makes its way back into the U.S. treasury. Whatever the truth is, I still stand by my claim that Israel receives far more than $3 billion annually, and that Israel receives extraordinary privileges from the U.S. and other nations. I'd even guess that Israel would be much more like Syria or Lebanon (had those nations not been destroyed and impoverished to benefit Israel) if Israel weren't the recipient of massive aid and freebies of all sorts that no other nation seems to get.

    I’d even guess that Israel would be much more like Syria or Lebanon (had those nations not been destroyed and impoverished to benefit Israel) if Israel weren’t the recipient of massive aid and freebies of all sorts that no other nation seems to get.

    Well, I strongly suspect that without constant cash injections Israel would’ve simply ceased to exit, and Palestine would’ve already been liberated. I imagine the number of fanatical Zionists is relatively small, insufficient to maintain the entity (not to mention that fanatics aren’t usually good at management), and the rest of European colonizers would’ve quickly emigrated to lands with more milk and honey, and less hostile environment. It’s a perfectly artificial entity.

    And actually, I believe the net migration has been negative for a while already, although they, of course, are hiding the stats…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Why do you think net migration of Jews to Israel has been negative for a while? You may well be right in the absence of continuing discrimination against Jews elsewhere but I would be interested to know your sources and how it is covered up officially.

    Also, as the point is quite often made that Israel has become economically very successful in the last 40 years so doesn't need the US taxpayer's help (and can't be coerced by threatening to withold it) how do you substantiate your opinion that its existence depends on them. (By the way I understand Israel now has vast undersea hydrocarbon resources. Are you aware of that?).
  102. @OilcanFloyd
    With regards to UK aid to Israel, I stated that the UK apparently gives the aid, based on the link I posted, and it may be the case. The UK is apparently not as upfront as the U.S. about its aid to Israel, and the U.S. isn't all that upfront about how it benefits Israel. I assume there is some truth to the claim of UK aid to Israel. Do you claim that it is an outright lie? I'll look at the proof otherwise, but I couldn't find anything to refute it, and a refutation wouldn't erase the massive aid that Israel otherwise gets, which is the point.

    I don't think that anyone would believe that Germans are the main beneficiaries of a program set up by the German government to specifically shower Israelis with technology and money. That looks like another form of reparations and tech transfer to Israel.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel and the German program, it doesn't change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.

    You confirm the impression of a rather haphazard way of making and supporting your points, especially your “I couldn’t find anything to refute it”.

    It took me about 10 seconds Googling to find this

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/63394/where-exactly-does-britains-122bn-foreign-aid-go

    Over 40 per cent of the UK’s aid budget goes to international organisations. The top ten recipients of direct aid are listed and Israel isn’t one of them (apparently it receives none at all). For the year Change.org was referring to the £6 billion would have been about 120 per cent of the direct (“bilateral”) aid for the year! As the UK’s piously internationalist achievement of 0.7 per cent of GDP in international aid is much criticised within the government party it is hardly likely that there are secret off budget payments in addition, let alone sums which would have nearly doubled the aid budget.

    So yes the overused word “lie” may well be appropriate – possibly of the big lie repeated often enough variety. Alternatively one might say that Change.org is a pretty dodgy source to base even a casual observation on.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    I saw the link you posted before. So what? The U.S. government also officially downplays, hides and outright lies about its massive aid to Israel. Apparently some people in Britain believe that their government gives money to Israel and isn't upfront about it, which is very possible, and doesn't erase the fact that the U.S. and Germany give massive amounts of aid to Israel.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.
  103. @Mao Cheng Ji

    I’d even guess that Israel would be much more like Syria or Lebanon (had those nations not been destroyed and impoverished to benefit Israel) if Israel weren’t the recipient of massive aid and freebies of all sorts that no other nation seems to get.
     
    Well, I strongly suspect that without constant cash injections Israel would've simply ceased to exit, and Palestine would've already been liberated. I imagine the number of fanatical Zionists is relatively small, insufficient to maintain the entity (not to mention that fanatics aren't usually good at management), and the rest of European colonizers would've quickly emigrated to lands with more milk and honey, and less hostile environment. It's a perfectly artificial entity.

    And actually, I believe the net migration has been negative for a while already, although they, of course, are hiding the stats...

    Why do you think net migration of Jews to Israel has been negative for a while? You may well be right in the absence of continuing discrimination against Jews elsewhere but I would be interested to know your sources and how it is covered up officially.

    Also, as the point is quite often made that Israel has become economically very successful in the last 40 years so doesn’t need the US taxpayer’s help (and can’t be coerced by threatening to withold it) how do you substantiate your opinion that its existence depends on them. (By the way I understand Israel now has vast undersea hydrocarbon resources. Are you aware of that?).

    Read More
  104. @OilcanFloyd
    I'm aware of Israel's credit rating. Funny thing is that it wasn't so great in 1991. What's changed? It just appears that Israel is too small to fail.

    "American loan guarantees could save Israel as much as $200 million a year in interest payments, said John F. H. Purcell, the director of the sovereign research group at Salomon Brothers Inc. This is because Israel has a BBB credit rating, forcing it to borrow at an interest rate that is 2 percentage points higher than the rate for United States Government-guaranteed debt, he said."

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/23/world/us-aid-to-israel-77-billion-since-67.html

    How does Israel not repay loans when it is showered with more than enough money to repay the loans, and then there's the claim that Israel's loans are really grants in disguise, and never meant to be repaid in the first place. Why is Israel still getting the loan guarantees now that is has such a high credit rating?

    "Further, friends of Israel never tire of saying that Israel has never defaulted on repayment of a U.S. government loan. It would be equally accurate to say Israel has never been required to repay a U.S. government loan. The truth of the matter is complex, and designed to be so by those who seek to conceal it from the U.S. taxpayer.

    Most U.S. loans to Israel are forgiven, and many were made with the explicit understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them. By disguising as loans what in fact were grants, cooperating members of Congress exempted Israel from the U.S. oversight that would have accompanied grants. On other loans, Israel was expected to pay the interest and eventually to begin repaying the principal. But the so-called Cranston Amendment, which has been attached by Congress to every foreign aid appropriation since 1983, provides that economic aid to Israel will never dip below the amount Israel is required to pay on its outstanding loans. In short, whether U.S. aid is extended as grants or loans to Israel, it never returns to the Treasury."

    http://www.wrmea.org/1997-december/the-cost-of-israel-to-u.s.-taxpayers-true-lies-about-u.s.-aid-to-israel.html

    I assume that the above quote is accurate, and that the situation is much worse (for the U.S.) since 9-11.

    " But Israel has already received nearly $10 billion in loan guarantees from the United States since 1992, and while it has yet to default on any of those loans, this new round of guarantees is intended in part to help Israel pay off the old debt. Which means the United States could be stuck with a bill ranging anywhere from zero to $9 billion plus interest."

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2003/08/what_are_israels_loan_guarantees.html

    Sounds reasonable to me. Too small to fail! It must be nice to have a never-ending line of credit that the creditors will eat. Apparently, none of the money loaned ever makes its way back into the U.S. treasury. Whatever the truth is, I still stand by my claim that Israel receives far more than $3 billion annually, and that Israel receives extraordinary privileges from the U.S. and other nations. I'd even guess that Israel would be much more like Syria or Lebanon (had those nations not been destroyed and impoverished to benefit Israel) if Israel weren't the recipient of massive aid and freebies of all sorts that no other nation seems to get.

    Ok, you answered it here:

    while it has yet to default on any of those loans

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    That's a completely dishonest reply. Why bother answering in the first place?

    Israel is like the spoiled child of wealthy parents who pay all of his bills.
  105. I would be interested to know your sources and how it is covered up officially

    When they aren’t bragging about people coming in, it’s the sure sign that people are leaving.

    how do you substantiate your opinion that its existence depends on them

    The whole world hates them. To most of the world, colonialism is the greatest evil; pretty much what ‘slavery’ means in the US. So, it wholly depends on the US.

    As for ‘economically very successful’, whatever that means – salaries are definitely lower than in the US/EU, opportunities are fewer, etc. It’s provincial backwater. And it’s a dangerous place. If you have a way to move to California, why would you stay there?

    Read More
  106. @Dave Pinsen
    Ok, you answered it here:

    while it has yet to default on any of those loans
     

    That’s a completely dishonest reply. Why bother answering in the first place?

    Israel is like the spoiled child of wealthy parents who pay all of his bills.

    Read More
  107. @Wizard of Oz
    You confirm the impression of a rather haphazard way of making and supporting your points, especially your "I couldn't find anything to refute it".

    It took me about 10 seconds Googling to find this

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/63394/where-exactly-does-britains-122bn-foreign-aid-go

    Over 40 per cent of the UK's aid budget goes to international organisations. The top ten recipients of direct aid are listed and Israel isn't one of them (apparently it receives none at all). For the year Change.org was referring to the £6 billion would have been about 120 per cent of the direct ("bilateral") aid for the year! As the UK's piously internationalist achievement of 0.7 per cent of GDP in international aid is much criticised within the government party it is hardly likely that there are secret off budget payments in addition, let alone sums which would have nearly doubled the aid budget.

    So yes the overused word "lie" may well be appropriate - possibly of the big lie repeated often enough variety. Alternatively one might say that Change.org is a pretty dodgy source to base even a casual observation on.

    I saw the link you posted before. So what? The U.S. government also officially downplays, hides and outright lies about its massive aid to Israel. Apparently some people in Britain believe that their government gives money to Israel and isn’t upfront about it, which is very possible, and doesn’t erase the fact that the U.S. and Germany give massive amounts of aid to Israel.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Bullshitting and mere assertion and speculation won't overcome the impact of your previous sloppiness.
  108. @OilcanFloyd
    I saw the link you posted before. So what? The U.S. government also officially downplays, hides and outright lies about its massive aid to Israel. Apparently some people in Britain believe that their government gives money to Israel and isn't upfront about it, which is very possible, and doesn't erase the fact that the U.S. and Germany give massive amounts of aid to Israel.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.

    Bullshitting and mere assertion and speculation won’t overcome the impact of your previous sloppiness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    Calling me sloppy or a bullshitter doesn't negate the point I made.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.
  109. @Wizard of Oz
    Bullshitting and mere assertion and speculation won't overcome the impact of your previous sloppiness.

    Calling me sloppy or a bullshitter doesn’t negate the point I made.

    Whatever the truth is of UK aid to Israel, it doesn’t change the fact that Israel receives massive amounts of aid, far beyond the $3 billion per year figure, and that Israel would likely be much more like neighboring countries if given similar or no aid throughout its history.

    Read More
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