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Are America's Wars Just and Moral?
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“One knowledgeable official estimates that the CIA-backed fighters may have killed or wounded 100,000 Syrian soldiers and their allies,” writes columnist David Ignatius.

Given that Syria’s prewar population was not 10 percent of ours, this is the equivalent of a million dead and wounded Americans. What justifies America’s participation in this slaughter?

Columnist Eric Margolis summarizes the successes of the six-year civil war to overthrow President Bashar Assad.

“The result of the western-engendered carnage in Syria was horrendous: at least 475,000 dead, 5 million Syrian refugees driven into exile in neighboring states (Turkey alone hosts three million), and another 6 million internally displaced. … 11 million Syrians … driven from their homes into wretched living conditions and near famine.

“Two of Syria’s greatest and oldest cities, Damascus and Aleppo, have been pounded into ruins. Jihadist massacres and Russian and American air strikes have ravaged once beautiful, relatively prosperous Syria. Its ancient Christian peoples are fleeing for their lives before US and Saudi takfiri religious fanatics.”

Realizing the futility of U.S. policy, President Trump is cutting aid to the rebels. And the War Party is beside itself. Says The Wall Street Journal:

“The only way to reach an acceptable diplomatic solution is if Iran and Russia feel they are paying too high a price for their Syria sojourn. This means more support for Mr. Assad’s enemies, not cutting them off without notice. And it means building up a Middle East coalition willing to fight Islamic State and resist Iran. The U.S. should also consider enforcing ‘safe zones’ in Syria for anti-Assad forces.”

Yet, fighting ISIS and al-Qaida in Syria, while bleeding the Assad-Iran-Russia-Hezbollah victors, is a formula for endless war and unending terrors visited upon the Syrian people.

What injury did the Assad regime, in power for half a century and having never attacked us, inflict to justify what we have helped to do to that country?

Is this war moral by our own standards?

We overthrew Saddam Hussein in 2003 and Moammar Gadhafi in 2012. Yet, the fighting, killing and dying in both countries have not ceased. Estimates of the Iraq civilian and military dead run into the hundreds of thousands.

Still, the worst humanitarian disaster may be unfolding in Yemen.

After the Houthis overthrew the Saudi-backed regime and took over the country, the Saudis in 2015 persuaded the United States to support its air strikes, invasion and blockade.

By January 2016, the U.N. estimated a Yemeni civilian death toll of 10,000, with 40,000 wounded. However, the blockade of Yemen, which imports 90 percent of its food, has caused a crisis of malnutrition and impending famine that threatens millions of the poorest people in the Arab world with starvation.

No matter how objectionable we found these dictators, what vital interests of ours were so imperiled by the continued rule of Saddam, Assad, Gadhafi and the Houthis that they would justify what we have done to the peoples of those countries?

“They make a desert and call it peace,” Calgacus said of the Romans he fought in the first century. Will that be our epitaph?

Among the principles for a just war, it must be waged as a last resort, to address a wrong suffered, and by a legitimate authority. Deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.

The wars in Syria, Libya and Yemen were never authorized by Congress. The civilian dead, wounded and uprooted in Syria, and the malnourished millions in Yemen, represent a moral cost that seems far beyond any proportional moral gain from those conflicts.

In which of the countries we have attacked or invaded in this century — Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen — are the people better off than they were before we came?

And we wonder why they hate us.

ORDER IT NOW

“Those to whom evil is done/Do evil in return,” wrote W. H. Auden in “September 1, 1939.” As the peoples of Syria and the other broken and bleeding countries of the Middle East flee to Europe and America, will not some come with revenge on their minds and hatred in their hearts?

Meanwhile, as the Americans bomb across the Middle East, China rises. She began the century with a GDP smaller than Italy’s and now has an economy that rivals our own.

She has become the world’s first manufacturing power, laid claim to the islands of the East and South China seas, and told America to keep her warships out of the Taiwan Strait.

Xi Jinping has launched a “One Belt, One Road” policy to finance trade ports and depots alongside the military and naval bases being established in Central and South Asia.

Meanwhile, the Americans, $20 trillion in debt, running $800 billion trade deficits, unable to fix their health care system, reform their tax code, or fund an infrastructure program, prepare to fight new Middle East war.

Whom the Gods would destroy…

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of a new book, “Nixon’s White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever.”

Copyright 2017 Creators.com.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Military, Neocons, Syria 
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  1. Imperial Washington is in the service of evil.

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  2. Wally says:

    Surely Pat means ‘Israel’s wars’ … fought & paid for by the US taxpayers.

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  3. Renoman says:

    Nothing just or moral about it. The entire World thinks America is just a gang of thugs, they should get out and stay out, let Israel fight it’s own bully wars on it’s own for a change.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    let Israel fight it’s own bully wars on it’s own for a change.
     
    That would be neither a moral nor just position to take. We, the USA, played a major role in creating monster Israel. We have an obligation to "confess our sins; do penance; make reparations."

    If ever a cause existed for Americans to fight to reclaim their values and their moral integrity, it would be to fight to contain, or better yet, quoting Obama, to "degrade and destroy" the zionist rot emanating from Israel and its malign influence on USA.

    -----
    @ Randal


    The US has not fought a just war since at least the 1990 war against Iraq, and that one was pretty dubious.
     
    Pat has written and argued that US involvement in WWII in Europe was an <a href = "http://www.unz.org/Pub/BuchananPatrick-2008"Unnecessary War."
    If Just War principles require that:

    "it must be waged as a last resort, to address a wrong suffered, and by a legitimate authority,"
     
    then the claim that a war was "unnecessary" seems to demonstrate that it was not "waged as a last resort."
    Therefore, US involvement in WWII in Europe did not comply with Just War principles.

    Just War theory has two major components: principles for when one may wage a war, and those for how a war ought to be fought, once joined. Pat alluded to this second category with this statement:


    Deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.
     
    In the course of the war against Germany in the 1940s, the USA (along with its allies) engaged in some of the most egregious, deliberate targeting of- and crimes against- civilian noncombatants in the history of modern warfare.

    USA pegs its rise to superpower status, and its burst of prosperity, to its victory over Germany and Japan in World War II.

    If that victory was the outcome of a war illegitimately joined, and immorally fought, war, then the USA has prospered on the fruits of a rotten tree.

    Because the American people have been not only deluded -- propagandized -- but actively compelled under threat of taboo, censorship, career loss, etc., to believe that their involvement in WWII was just and moral, the effort of the "greatest generation," they have not confronted the crimes committed in their name, nor come to terms with the real source of their prosperity and superpower status. Like an addict, or any criminal habituated to the seeming success of his/her criminal behavior, the USA keeps repeating the behavior -- until it hits the wall.

    Randal mentioned the 1990 war (against Iraq). Prof. Jeffrey Engel studied the archives to determine how and why the George H W Bush team waged that war. In a speech at Texas A&M in 2013, Engel said:


    Bush saw in the Gulf War AN OPPORTUNITY as well as an invasion, a point that I will make by way of conclusion. .. He saw within it a chance to demonstrate that Washington would continue to lead. Leading it in particular towards the kind of world promised to His generation as their reward for service in World War II. It would be a world he said, Quote “Where the United Nations freed from Cold War stalemates [i.e. checked by no other counterbalancing power -ed.] is poised to fulfill its historic vision of its founders” End Quote http://www.c-span.org/video/?310832-1/book-discussion-desert-reflections-gulf-war
     
    USA has done just that: as it won a war over Germany & Japan by firebombing innocent civilians and destroying cultures in 1942 - 1945, in flagrant disregard of all moral compunctions, so it has firebombed and destroyed cities and cultures throughout the ME (and elsewhere) over the ensuing years.

    ---
    Rurik has argued that harking back to WWII is the wrong battle, but that the deception involved in 9/11 should be the rallying point. I agree that 9/11 and its coverup are egregious wrongs that must be addressed, but they exist on the continuum whose point of origin is in FDR's administration (if not Woodrow Wilson's).

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  4. KA says:

    No not by any stretch of imagination. All immoral wars eventually end in internal decomposition , rotting away from within and in erosion of standing abroad . The doubt starts creeping in . Monolithic environment of majoritian consensus among the general public wears thin .
    Afghanistan war shows how disorganized thinking has become . Was it moral? Was it legal?
    One thing is sure that the question raised by perfectionist and constitutionalist and international lawyers was not answered by NATO or US.

    Power and sense of righteous entitlement or belief in divine guidance put America right where Soviet was in 1979. Ideology of Soviet blinded them to adjust, reload and advance . Dismissive attitude to local mores,values,and history paved the stage with failures .

    Today America is looking at mirror and is seeing Soviet with uncanny resemblance both within and outside – domestic and foreign .

    This article from Politico doesn’t point to a result different from what awaited Soviet ‘s fate in
    Afghanistan—-http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/24/donald-trump-afghanistan-215412

    Truth, morality, and the final outcome are all tied and bound up together despite each of them belonging to different spheres . It is our understanding that these are separate that is what is wrong .

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  5. Randal says:

    The US has not fought a just war since at least the 1990 war against Iraq, and that one was pretty dubious.

    Among the principles for a just war, it must be waged as a last resort, to address a wrong suffered, and by a legitimate authority.

    Since the US voluntarily waived its right to wage war without the authority of the UNSC (except in necessary defence against ongoing armed attack), the right authority for any war of choice is clearly the UNSC. For all that body’s inadequacies (though in truth it’s not as though other human authorities, such as the US regime itself, are any less venal and self-interestedly dishonest), it is what the US regime voluntarily signed up to, and until the US withdraws from the UN treaty it is bound, morally at least, by that commitment.

    Don’t like it? Fine, then campaign for the US to leave the UN and regain its freedom of action, without trying hypocritically to impose the rules of UN membership on others whilst evading them yourselves.

    UNSC approval is necessary to make a war of choice just, but not alone sufficient. However, it does at least make a war legal.

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  6. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “The only defensible war is a war of defense.”- G.K. Chesterton

    How many U.S. wars or military actions can honestly be called a war of defense?? I wonder how many Americans, who’ve engaged in this most grave offense to God, think their actions were perfectly acceptable, even noble (“thank you for your service”)??

    “You were never friends of mine; depart from me, you that traffic in wrong-doing.”

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  7. MEexpert says:

    Are America’s Wars Just and Moral?

    Absolutely not. A just and moral war is the one that is fought in defense of one’s country. No American war, since the American revolution, has been moral or just. A hero is a person who gives his life defending his country. None of the Americans who died in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria died defending their country. They died destroying other countries. None of those countries was a threat to or had threatened this country.

    How could a war be moral if it is waged by dropping bombs from the safety of the sky or launching drones sitting in an air conditioned building in the Nevada desert, or ordering missiles fired from a ship miles away while the president is enjoying a chocolate cake (or whatever)? This is not war. It is pure murder.

    The Defense Department should again be called War Department since it is only good at waging wars on other countries. It can’t even defend the Pentagon against a lone airplane (even accepting the official narrative about 9/11).

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    • Replies: @Johann
    America Nova delenda est.
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  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The destruction and slaughter in Syria has one purpose: to create an Israeli client state and colony, probably to be initialized as an Israeli “protectorate”.

    The reason the American (((media))) carry a bogus hue-and-cry against all things Russian is because Russian installations in Syria are proving difficult for Tel Aviv to expunge. Yahweh’s would-be feudal lords grow impatient; the slippered foot stomps with growing demands that American peasants pay for more American mercenaries to carry out Israel’s demands for wealth, power, and territory.

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  9. Anonym says:

    It is exceedingly strange how the USA can murder millions of people abroad with nary a question raised, and yet a person would be Hitler to the nth power to suggest a paid, bloodless mass repatriation of the non-white citizens admitted since the 1965 immigration act. We can control our demographics, we just have to want it bad enough.

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  10. Rurik says: • Website

    What justifies America’s participation in this slaughter?

    well Pat, being as you are an overt Christian, you ought to know that the justification comes directly from the 70 million Christian Zionists here in the ZUS who support all these wars, and vote for Lindsey Graham and John McBloodstain and others in order to slaughter enough Muslims so that the Jews will return to Biblical Israel and the Christian Zionists will then be able to force the second coming of Jesus Christ and get their thousand years of rapture!

    Duh

    So since I know that you know this, and you know that these Christians are the voting block that the Zionists have been counting on for decades, why don’t you ever write about them? Without these bloodthirsty Christians, howling for war, war, war!!! There’d be no more of these Satanic wars, and you know it.

    Its ancient Christian peoples are fleeing for their lives before US and Saudi takfiri religious fanatics.”

    from the perspective of Lindsey Graham and McBloodstain (and their Christian voting supporters) a few slaughtered and raped and crucified Christians sacrificed for their personal prize of a thousand years of rapture is a price *”they’re”* easily! willing to pay. Especially since they’re just brown Christians anyways, and like the Palestinian Christians, don’t really matter, do they?

    What injury did the Assad regime, in power for half a century and having never attacked us, inflict to justify what we have helped to do to that country?

    when you’re talking about a thousand years of rapture, or in the case of the Christian preachers – getting a brand new Gulfstream! who cares?!

    Is this war moral by our own standards?

    if you mean Christian standards, as they’re applied in the ZUS, then yes, of course!

    Will that be our epitaph?

    ‘We murdered children for Jesus Christ’

    malnourished millions in Yemen, represent a moral cost that seems far beyond any proportional moral gain from those conflicts.

    the gain isn’t moral, rather it’s measured in personal ecstasy and durational

    As the peoples of Syria and the other broken and bleeding countries of the Middle East flee to Europe and America, will not some come with revenge on their minds and hatred in their hearts?

    and who are the driving force behind facilitating all these Muslims into Western lands?

    is not Merkel and those who will reelect her “Christian” Democrats?

    are not the people who’ve facilitated all the Somalis into Minnesota (like the one that just shot that woman in her pajamas [three times!]) .. Christians?

    and yet for all of that, I don’t think I remember Pat Buchanan even once offering even tepid criticism for all the Christian who’re obviously behind all these wars and horrors that he so eloquently (and myopically) bemoans.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nickels
    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.
    The body of Christians is Israel.
    , @Assistant Village Idiot
    Evangelicals are not attempting to force the Second Coming with their pro-Israel sympathies. I have never heard one say any such thing in my senior-citizen life. They may be wrong or misguided or unthinking or any number of other blamable things, but this one springs entirely from the fevered imaginations of their critics. It is a misinterpretation based on the desire of Christians for the return of Christ - which is not the same thing as taking actions to force His hand.
    , @Lawrence Fitton
    pat's a christian. a true believer, i believe.
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  11. @Renoman
    Nothing just or moral about it. The entire World thinks America is just a gang of thugs, they should get out and stay out, let Israel fight it's own bully wars on it's own for a change.

    let Israel fight it’s own bully wars on it’s own for a change.

    That would be neither a moral nor just position to take. We, the USA, played a major role in creating monster Israel. We have an obligation to “confess our sins; do penance; make reparations.”

    If ever a cause existed for Americans to fight to reclaim their values and their moral integrity, it would be to fight to contain, or better yet, quoting Obama, to “degrade and destroy” the zionist rot emanating from Israel and its malign influence on USA.

    —–
    @ Randal

    The US has not fought a just war since at least the 1990 war against Iraq, and that one was pretty dubious.

    Pat has written and argued that US involvement in WWII in Europe was an <a href = "http://www.unz.org/Pub/BuchananPatrick-2008"Unnecessary War."
    If Just War principles require that:

    “it must be waged as a last resort, to address a wrong suffered, and by a legitimate authority,”

    then the claim that a war was “unnecessary” seems to demonstrate that it was not “waged as a last resort.”
    Therefore, US involvement in WWII in Europe did not comply with Just War principles.

    Just War theory has two major components: principles for when one may wage a war, and those for how a war ought to be fought, once joined. Pat alluded to this second category with this statement:

    Deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.

    In the course of the war against Germany in the 1940s, the USA (along with its allies) engaged in some of the most egregious, deliberate targeting of- and crimes against- civilian noncombatants in the history of modern warfare.

    USA pegs its rise to superpower status, and its burst of prosperity, to its victory over Germany and Japan in World War II.

    If that victory was the outcome of a war illegitimately joined, and immorally fought, war, then the USA has prospered on the fruits of a rotten tree.

    Because the American people have been not only deluded — propagandized — but actively compelled under threat of taboo, censorship, career loss, etc., to believe that their involvement in WWII was just and moral, the effort of the “greatest generation,” they have not confronted the crimes committed in their name, nor come to terms with the real source of their prosperity and superpower status. Like an addict, or any criminal habituated to the seeming success of his/her criminal behavior, the USA keeps repeating the behavior — until it hits the wall.

    Randal mentioned the 1990 war (against Iraq). Prof. Jeffrey Engel studied the archives to determine how and why the George H W Bush team waged that war. In a speech at Texas A&M in 2013, Engel said:

    Bush saw in the Gulf War AN OPPORTUNITY as well as an invasion, a point that I will make by way of conclusion. .. He saw within it a chance to demonstrate that Washington would continue to lead. Leading it in particular towards the kind of world promised to His generation as their reward for service in World War II. It would be a world he said, Quote “Where the United Nations freed from Cold War stalemates [i.e. checked by no other counterbalancing power -ed.] is poised to fulfill its historic vision of its founders” End Quote http://www.c-span.org/video/?310832-1/book-discussion-desert-reflections-gulf-war

    USA has done just that: as it won a war over Germany & Japan by firebombing innocent civilians and destroying cultures in 1942 – 1945, in flagrant disregard of all moral compunctions, so it has firebombed and destroyed cities and cultures throughout the ME (and elsewhere) over the ensuing years.


    Rurik has argued that harking back to WWII is the wrong battle, but that the deception involved in 9/11 should be the rallying point. I agree that 9/11 and its coverup are egregious wrongs that must be addressed, but they exist on the continuum whose point of origin is in FDR’s administration (if not Woodrow Wilson’s).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    Even before the creature from Jekyll Island, there have been failed attempts to create a central bank to control the finances of this country by the Rothschild cabal. Andrew Jackson's closing of the second Federal Bank is an instance of this. It is a pity that the quote attributed to him was not his:

    You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out.
     
    Nonetheless, it would not surprise me if that is what he believed and there is no reason why that couldn't be our rallying cry against the stranglehold of global jewish bankers that have incarnated Dante's Inferno on this planet.

    Yes, 9/11 is just another milepost along the long road littered with the graves of innocents from before any of us was born, and the road fades into the horizon before us with no end in sight.

    , @Rurik
    Hey SC,

    Rurik has argued that harking back to WWII is the wrong battle, but that the deception involved in 9/11 should be the rallying point. I agree that 9/11 and its coverup are egregious wrongs that must be addressed, but they exist on the continuum whose point of origin is in FDR’s administration (if not Woodrow Wilson’s).
     
    surely you are aware that I, more than anyone I know has railed against Woodrow Wilson's original treachery and betrayal by authorizing the Fed, which led to the rapine of WWI, and set in motion the Zio-Fiend that has the planet today by the short hairs, and is responsible for all the evils you so eloquently and cogently point out. Including the deepstate coup d'état when they assassinated JFK.

    But, I consider it more likely that today's people are simply not intellectually savvy enough to mentally meander all the way back to what for most of them, is ancient history.

    911 was/is an obviously lied-about crime. The evidence is glaring and the perpetrators still in power. And, all the things you speak of that are egregious wrongs were and are being perpetrated by the very same people, (or their offspring) who were/are responsible for 9/11.

    If the American people were to ever really glimpse the true nature of the special relationship, then perhaps something could bubble up from the grass roots to clamp down on America's serial wars for Israel, especially once the people understand that it was Israel who perpetrated 9/11.

    That's my theory

    , @Thirdeye
    The point of origin would be J.P. Morgan. He invested in the Brits' war and launched the effort to get the US away from neutrality to protect his investment. Unseating William Jennings Bryan, who as Secretary of State favored following the laws on neutrality, was his coup.

    The entanglement of financing an empire over whom the US had no political control remained until Roosevelt told Churchill what's what on the terms of US involvement in WWII, in May 1941. It was politically necessary as even pro-interventionists were less than enthusiastic about having Americans die to prop up Britain's tottering empire. The aftermath of the WWI was still fresh in memory. Churchill, of course, did everything he could to subvert those terms up to his last days in office.
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  12. nickels says:
    @Rurik

    What justifies America’s participation in this slaughter?
     
    well Pat, being as you are an overt Christian, you ought to know that the justification comes directly from the 70 million Christian Zionists here in the ZUS who support all these wars, and vote for Lindsey Graham and John McBloodstain and others in order to slaughter enough Muslims so that the Jews will return to Biblical Israel and the Christian Zionists will then be able to force the second coming of Jesus Christ and get their thousand years of rapture!

    Duh

    So since I know that you know this, and you know that these Christians are the voting block that the Zionists have been counting on for decades, why don't you ever write about them? Without these bloodthirsty Christians, howling for war, war, war!!! There'd be no more of these Satanic wars, and you know it.


    Its ancient Christian peoples are fleeing for their lives before US and Saudi takfiri religious fanatics.”
     
    from the perspective of Lindsey Graham and McBloodstain (and their Christian voting supporters) a few slaughtered and raped and crucified Christians sacrificed for their personal prize of a thousand years of rapture is a price *"they're"* easily! willing to pay. Especially since they're just brown Christians anyways, and like the Palestinian Christians, don't really matter, do they?

    What injury did the Assad regime, in power for half a century and having never attacked us, inflict to justify what we have helped to do to that country?
     
    when you're talking about a thousand years of rapture, or in the case of the Christian preachers - getting a brand new Gulfstream! who cares?!

    Is this war moral by our own standards?
     
    if you mean Christian standards, as they're applied in the ZUS, then yes, of course!

    Will that be our epitaph?
     
    'We murdered children for Jesus Christ'

    malnourished millions in Yemen, represent a moral cost that seems far beyond any proportional moral gain from those conflicts.
     
    the gain isn't moral, rather it's measured in personal ecstasy and durational

    http://finkorswim.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/the-rapture.jpg


    As the peoples of Syria and the other broken and bleeding countries of the Middle East flee to Europe and America, will not some come with revenge on their minds and hatred in their hearts?
     
    and who are the driving force behind facilitating all these Muslims into Western lands?

    is not Merkel and those who will reelect her "Christian" Democrats?

    are not the people who've facilitated all the Somalis into Minnesota (like the one that just shot that woman in her pajamas [three times!]) .. Christians?

    and yet for all of that, I don't think I remember Pat Buchanan even once offering even tepid criticism for all the Christian who're obviously behind all these wars and horrors that he so eloquently (and myopically) bemoans.

    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.
    The body of Christians is Israel.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.
     
    yes I know. But Catholics are Christians, and as such, they ought to know and speak out against the Satanic/murderous influences in the Christian body. No?

    If someone of Pat's stature in the Christian body were to tell the truth about the Christian Zionists, then perhaps he could effect real change. Even if he was persecuted for telling the truth.

    Mel did it (told the truth as he saw it) and was persecuted for his efforts, but also beautified and graced at the same time.
    , @Minnesota Mary
    Unfortunately, there are some loopy Catholics who read the "Left Behind" books and have bought into Zionism as have some other Christians.
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  13. Patriot says:

    Thanks Pat, for again telling the truth.

    America’s actions in Syria are War Crimes, and I pray that those politicians, generals, industrialists, and media propagandists responsible be punished.

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  14. Realizing the futility of U.S. policy, President Trump is cutting aid to the rebels. And the War Party is beside itself.

    Hah! Sure he is!

    According to RT:

    https://www.rt.com/usa/397437-trump-washington-post-syria/

    President Donald Trump has again hit back at the Washington Post, accusing the paper of “fabricating” facts about his alleged decision to cancel a CIA-funded program to train Syrian rebels fighting Bashar Assad’s government.
    The president fired off a series of angry tweets on Monday.

    “The Amazon Washington Post fabricated the facts on my ending massive, dangerous, and wasteful payments to Syrian rebels fighting Assad…..,” Trump wrote.

    We are hanging from the rafters by the Jewish noose, and there are no saviors to extricate us. Our only hope is for us to wake up united and throw our bodies into the machine.

    Read More
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  15. @SolontoCroesus

    let Israel fight it’s own bully wars on it’s own for a change.
     
    That would be neither a moral nor just position to take. We, the USA, played a major role in creating monster Israel. We have an obligation to "confess our sins; do penance; make reparations."

    If ever a cause existed for Americans to fight to reclaim their values and their moral integrity, it would be to fight to contain, or better yet, quoting Obama, to "degrade and destroy" the zionist rot emanating from Israel and its malign influence on USA.

    -----
    @ Randal


    The US has not fought a just war since at least the 1990 war against Iraq, and that one was pretty dubious.
     
    Pat has written and argued that US involvement in WWII in Europe was an <a href = "http://www.unz.org/Pub/BuchananPatrick-2008"Unnecessary War."
    If Just War principles require that:

    "it must be waged as a last resort, to address a wrong suffered, and by a legitimate authority,"
     
    then the claim that a war was "unnecessary" seems to demonstrate that it was not "waged as a last resort."
    Therefore, US involvement in WWII in Europe did not comply with Just War principles.

    Just War theory has two major components: principles for when one may wage a war, and those for how a war ought to be fought, once joined. Pat alluded to this second category with this statement:


    Deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.
     
    In the course of the war against Germany in the 1940s, the USA (along with its allies) engaged in some of the most egregious, deliberate targeting of- and crimes against- civilian noncombatants in the history of modern warfare.

    USA pegs its rise to superpower status, and its burst of prosperity, to its victory over Germany and Japan in World War II.

    If that victory was the outcome of a war illegitimately joined, and immorally fought, war, then the USA has prospered on the fruits of a rotten tree.

    Because the American people have been not only deluded -- propagandized -- but actively compelled under threat of taboo, censorship, career loss, etc., to believe that their involvement in WWII was just and moral, the effort of the "greatest generation," they have not confronted the crimes committed in their name, nor come to terms with the real source of their prosperity and superpower status. Like an addict, or any criminal habituated to the seeming success of his/her criminal behavior, the USA keeps repeating the behavior -- until it hits the wall.

    Randal mentioned the 1990 war (against Iraq). Prof. Jeffrey Engel studied the archives to determine how and why the George H W Bush team waged that war. In a speech at Texas A&M in 2013, Engel said:


    Bush saw in the Gulf War AN OPPORTUNITY as well as an invasion, a point that I will make by way of conclusion. .. He saw within it a chance to demonstrate that Washington would continue to lead. Leading it in particular towards the kind of world promised to His generation as their reward for service in World War II. It would be a world he said, Quote “Where the United Nations freed from Cold War stalemates [i.e. checked by no other counterbalancing power -ed.] is poised to fulfill its historic vision of its founders” End Quote http://www.c-span.org/video/?310832-1/book-discussion-desert-reflections-gulf-war
     
    USA has done just that: as it won a war over Germany & Japan by firebombing innocent civilians and destroying cultures in 1942 - 1945, in flagrant disregard of all moral compunctions, so it has firebombed and destroyed cities and cultures throughout the ME (and elsewhere) over the ensuing years.

    ---
    Rurik has argued that harking back to WWII is the wrong battle, but that the deception involved in 9/11 should be the rallying point. I agree that 9/11 and its coverup are egregious wrongs that must be addressed, but they exist on the continuum whose point of origin is in FDR's administration (if not Woodrow Wilson's).

    Even before the creature from Jekyll Island, there have been failed attempts to create a central bank to control the finances of this country by the Rothschild cabal. Andrew Jackson’s closing of the second Federal Bank is an instance of this. It is a pity that the quote attributed to him was not his:

    You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out.

    Nonetheless, it would not surprise me if that is what he believed and there is no reason why that couldn’t be our rallying cry against the stranglehold of global jewish bankers that have incarnated Dante’s Inferno on this planet.

    Yes, 9/11 is just another milepost along the long road littered with the graves of innocents from before any of us was born, and the road fades into the horizon before us with no end in sight.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    More than just another milepost, 9/11 is THE thread to pull on in order to unravel the interwoven threads of deceit, corruption and crimes that are/have destroyed the USA. Rurik is correct.
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  16. Rurik says: • Website
    @SolontoCroesus

    let Israel fight it’s own bully wars on it’s own for a change.
     
    That would be neither a moral nor just position to take. We, the USA, played a major role in creating monster Israel. We have an obligation to "confess our sins; do penance; make reparations."

    If ever a cause existed for Americans to fight to reclaim their values and their moral integrity, it would be to fight to contain, or better yet, quoting Obama, to "degrade and destroy" the zionist rot emanating from Israel and its malign influence on USA.

    -----
    @ Randal


    The US has not fought a just war since at least the 1990 war against Iraq, and that one was pretty dubious.
     
    Pat has written and argued that US involvement in WWII in Europe was an <a href = "http://www.unz.org/Pub/BuchananPatrick-2008"Unnecessary War."
    If Just War principles require that:

    "it must be waged as a last resort, to address a wrong suffered, and by a legitimate authority,"
     
    then the claim that a war was "unnecessary" seems to demonstrate that it was not "waged as a last resort."
    Therefore, US involvement in WWII in Europe did not comply with Just War principles.

    Just War theory has two major components: principles for when one may wage a war, and those for how a war ought to be fought, once joined. Pat alluded to this second category with this statement:


    Deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.
     
    In the course of the war against Germany in the 1940s, the USA (along with its allies) engaged in some of the most egregious, deliberate targeting of- and crimes against- civilian noncombatants in the history of modern warfare.

    USA pegs its rise to superpower status, and its burst of prosperity, to its victory over Germany and Japan in World War II.

    If that victory was the outcome of a war illegitimately joined, and immorally fought, war, then the USA has prospered on the fruits of a rotten tree.

    Because the American people have been not only deluded -- propagandized -- but actively compelled under threat of taboo, censorship, career loss, etc., to believe that their involvement in WWII was just and moral, the effort of the "greatest generation," they have not confronted the crimes committed in their name, nor come to terms with the real source of their prosperity and superpower status. Like an addict, or any criminal habituated to the seeming success of his/her criminal behavior, the USA keeps repeating the behavior -- until it hits the wall.

    Randal mentioned the 1990 war (against Iraq). Prof. Jeffrey Engel studied the archives to determine how and why the George H W Bush team waged that war. In a speech at Texas A&M in 2013, Engel said:


    Bush saw in the Gulf War AN OPPORTUNITY as well as an invasion, a point that I will make by way of conclusion. .. He saw within it a chance to demonstrate that Washington would continue to lead. Leading it in particular towards the kind of world promised to His generation as their reward for service in World War II. It would be a world he said, Quote “Where the United Nations freed from Cold War stalemates [i.e. checked by no other counterbalancing power -ed.] is poised to fulfill its historic vision of its founders” End Quote http://www.c-span.org/video/?310832-1/book-discussion-desert-reflections-gulf-war
     
    USA has done just that: as it won a war over Germany & Japan by firebombing innocent civilians and destroying cultures in 1942 - 1945, in flagrant disregard of all moral compunctions, so it has firebombed and destroyed cities and cultures throughout the ME (and elsewhere) over the ensuing years.

    ---
    Rurik has argued that harking back to WWII is the wrong battle, but that the deception involved in 9/11 should be the rallying point. I agree that 9/11 and its coverup are egregious wrongs that must be addressed, but they exist on the continuum whose point of origin is in FDR's administration (if not Woodrow Wilson's).

    Hey SC,

    Rurik has argued that harking back to WWII is the wrong battle, but that the deception involved in 9/11 should be the rallying point. I agree that 9/11 and its coverup are egregious wrongs that must be addressed, but they exist on the continuum whose point of origin is in FDR’s administration (if not Woodrow Wilson’s).

    surely you are aware that I, more than anyone I know has railed against Woodrow Wilson’s original treachery and betrayal by authorizing the Fed, which led to the rapine of WWI, and set in motion the Zio-Fiend that has the planet today by the short hairs, and is responsible for all the evils you so eloquently and cogently point out. Including the deepstate coup d’état when they assassinated JFK.

    But, I consider it more likely that today’s people are simply not intellectually savvy enough to mentally meander all the way back to what for most of them, is ancient history.

    911 was/is an obviously lied-about crime. The evidence is glaring and the perpetrators still in power. And, all the things you speak of that are egregious wrongs were and are being perpetrated by the very same people, (or their offspring) who were/are responsible for 9/11.

    If the American people were to ever really glimpse the true nature of the special relationship, then perhaps something could bubble up from the grass roots to clamp down on America’s serial wars for Israel, especially once the people understand that it was Israel who perpetrated 9/11.

    That’s my theory

    Read More
    • Agree: SolontoCroesus
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  17. Rurik says: • Website
    @nickels
    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.
    The body of Christians is Israel.

    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.

    yes I know. But Catholics are Christians, and as such, they ought to know and speak out against the Satanic/murderous influences in the Christian body. No?

    If someone of Pat’s stature in the Christian body were to tell the truth about the Christian Zionists, then perhaps he could effect real change. Even if he was persecuted for telling the truth.

    Mel did it (told the truth as he saw it) and was persecuted for his efforts, but also beautified and graced at the same time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nickels
    Yes, it truly is a blight on Christianity, I agree.
    , @Minnesota Mary
    Me thinks you want to see Pat Buchanan condemned and ostracized.
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  18. In a way it is kind of funny. Pat is basically saying:

    “Who knew that when we got rid of all those stupid peaceniks, all we would have left is warmongers?”

    Are America’s Wars Just and Moral?

    The answer is blowing in the wind.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lawrence Fitton
    bob dylan wrote blowin' in the wind. perhaps his recording would have been a better choice.
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  19. @Rurik

    What justifies America’s participation in this slaughter?
     
    well Pat, being as you are an overt Christian, you ought to know that the justification comes directly from the 70 million Christian Zionists here in the ZUS who support all these wars, and vote for Lindsey Graham and John McBloodstain and others in order to slaughter enough Muslims so that the Jews will return to Biblical Israel and the Christian Zionists will then be able to force the second coming of Jesus Christ and get their thousand years of rapture!

    Duh

    So since I know that you know this, and you know that these Christians are the voting block that the Zionists have been counting on for decades, why don't you ever write about them? Without these bloodthirsty Christians, howling for war, war, war!!! There'd be no more of these Satanic wars, and you know it.


    Its ancient Christian peoples are fleeing for their lives before US and Saudi takfiri religious fanatics.”
     
    from the perspective of Lindsey Graham and McBloodstain (and their Christian voting supporters) a few slaughtered and raped and crucified Christians sacrificed for their personal prize of a thousand years of rapture is a price *"they're"* easily! willing to pay. Especially since they're just brown Christians anyways, and like the Palestinian Christians, don't really matter, do they?

    What injury did the Assad regime, in power for half a century and having never attacked us, inflict to justify what we have helped to do to that country?
     
    when you're talking about a thousand years of rapture, or in the case of the Christian preachers - getting a brand new Gulfstream! who cares?!

    Is this war moral by our own standards?
     
    if you mean Christian standards, as they're applied in the ZUS, then yes, of course!

    Will that be our epitaph?
     
    'We murdered children for Jesus Christ'

    malnourished millions in Yemen, represent a moral cost that seems far beyond any proportional moral gain from those conflicts.
     
    the gain isn't moral, rather it's measured in personal ecstasy and durational

    http://finkorswim.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/the-rapture.jpg


    As the peoples of Syria and the other broken and bleeding countries of the Middle East flee to Europe and America, will not some come with revenge on their minds and hatred in their hearts?
     
    and who are the driving force behind facilitating all these Muslims into Western lands?

    is not Merkel and those who will reelect her "Christian" Democrats?

    are not the people who've facilitated all the Somalis into Minnesota (like the one that just shot that woman in her pajamas [three times!]) .. Christians?

    and yet for all of that, I don't think I remember Pat Buchanan even once offering even tepid criticism for all the Christian who're obviously behind all these wars and horrors that he so eloquently (and myopically) bemoans.

    Evangelicals are not attempting to force the Second Coming with their pro-Israel sympathies. I have never heard one say any such thing in my senior-citizen life. They may be wrong or misguided or unthinking or any number of other blamable things, but this one springs entirely from the fevered imaginations of their critics. It is a misinterpretation based on the desire of Christians for the return of Christ – which is not the same thing as taking actions to force His hand.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hello AVI,

    Evangelicals are not attempting to force the Second Coming with their pro-Israel sympathies. I have never heard one say any such thing in my senior-citizen life. ... .... It is a misinterpretation based on the desire of Christians for the return of Christ – which is not the same thing as taking actions to force His hand.
     
    I don't expect that they ever really put it quite that way, but let me ask you respectfully...

    why do the Christian Zionists vote for men like Lindsey Graham who is quite obviously a raging war monger?

    is it not because he promises to do all he can to support the Jewish Zionists as they genocide the Palestinians (including the Christian Palestinians) out of their ancient lands, that the Christian Zionists believe God promised to the Jews?

    (if you're honest, I suspect that you'd answer in the affirmative)

    and why do the Christian Zionists do that, unless it's to foment the Second Coming?

    This isn't rocket science, it's simple logic. They do what they do - support war mongers and the slaughter of innocents in the holy land... because they believe that when the Jews return to Israel, according to their (twisted version of) scripture, that it will herald the Second Coming.

    Is that not so?

    and if it is indeed so, then how am I wrong in positing that what they're trying to do is force the Second Coming of the Lord, by facilitating the return of the Jews to biblical Israel, so that they can be rewarded with their thousand years of rapture?

    as far as everything I've read and heard and learned about it, this is exactly the scenario that we're facing today.

    although it's true that not too many preachers (with their Israeli government supplied private jets) - put it in quite those terms.

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/falwell_jet_rogues_gallery.jpg


    but please do correct me if I'm somehow mistaken about any of that..
    , @NoseytheDuke
    That's a cop-out! Surely in between their Bible studies they've had time enough to understand the concept of cause and effect? What is the point of praying to a higher power while at the same time ones actions defile the very values that motivate one to pray in the first place? Does praying absolve one from taking responsibility for ones actions? I would have thought not.
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  20. nickels says:
    @Rurik

    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.
     
    yes I know. But Catholics are Christians, and as such, they ought to know and speak out against the Satanic/murderous influences in the Christian body. No?

    If someone of Pat's stature in the Christian body were to tell the truth about the Christian Zionists, then perhaps he could effect real change. Even if he was persecuted for telling the truth.

    Mel did it (told the truth as he saw it) and was persecuted for his efforts, but also beautified and graced at the same time.

    Yes, it truly is a blight on Christianity, I agree.

    Read More
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  21. Rurik says: • Website
    @Assistant Village Idiot
    Evangelicals are not attempting to force the Second Coming with their pro-Israel sympathies. I have never heard one say any such thing in my senior-citizen life. They may be wrong or misguided or unthinking or any number of other blamable things, but this one springs entirely from the fevered imaginations of their critics. It is a misinterpretation based on the desire of Christians for the return of Christ - which is not the same thing as taking actions to force His hand.

    Hello AVI,

    Evangelicals are not attempting to force the Second Coming with their pro-Israel sympathies. I have never heard one say any such thing in my senior-citizen life. … …. It is a misinterpretation based on the desire of Christians for the return of Christ – which is not the same thing as taking actions to force His hand.

    I don’t expect that they ever really put it quite that way, but let me ask you respectfully…

    why do the Christian Zionists vote for men like Lindsey Graham who is quite obviously a raging war monger?

    is it not because he promises to do all he can to support the Jewish Zionists as they genocide the Palestinians (including the Christian Palestinians) out of their ancient lands, that the Christian Zionists believe God promised to the Jews?

    (if you’re honest, I suspect that you’d answer in the affirmative)

    and why do the Christian Zionists do that, unless it’s to foment the Second Coming?

    This isn’t rocket science, it’s simple logic. They do what they do – support war mongers and the slaughter of innocents in the holy land… because they believe that when the Jews return to Israel, according to their (twisted version of) scripture, that it will herald the Second Coming.

    Is that not so?

    and if it is indeed so, then how am I wrong in positing that what they’re trying to do is force the Second Coming of the Lord, by facilitating the return of the Jews to biblical Israel, so that they can be rewarded with their thousand years of rapture?

    as far as everything I’ve read and heard and learned about it, this is exactly the scenario that we’re facing today.

    although it’s true that not too many preachers (with their Israeli government supplied private jets) – put it in quite those terms.

    but please do correct me if I’m somehow mistaken about any of that..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Minnesota Mary
    You are mistaken in the premillennial, dispensationslist view of the rapture.

    These people believe that the true believers (themselves) will be raptured up to heaven right before Armageddon, and then there will be a tribulation lasting seven years, and then Jesus will come to earth and reign from Jerusalem as an earthly potentate for a thousand years.

    These people refuse to accept that Armageddon already happened in 70 AD when Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.
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  22. Johann says:
    @MEexpert

    Are America's Wars Just and Moral?
     
    Absolutely not. A just and moral war is the one that is fought in defense of one's country. No American war, since the American revolution, has been moral or just. A hero is a person who gives his life defending his country. None of the Americans who died in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria died defending their country. They died destroying other countries. None of those countries was a threat to or had threatened this country.

    How could a war be moral if it is waged by dropping bombs from the safety of the sky or launching drones sitting in an air conditioned building in the Nevada desert, or ordering missiles fired from a ship miles away while the president is enjoying a chocolate cake (or whatever)? This is not war. It is pure murder.

    The Defense Department should again be called War Department since it is only good at waging wars on other countries. It can't even defend the Pentagon against a lone airplane (even accepting the official narrative about 9/11).

    America Nova delenda est.

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  23. KenH says:

    America’s current foreign policy is the very antithesis of good and moral and anyone who thinks our wars are for righteous causes is afflicted with psychopathy. It’s nothing but pure murder and nation wrecking in service to a militantly pro-Israel ideology dressed up as “American exceptionalism” and protecting innocent people from dictators so as to mollify the restless American goys.

    I don’t see things improving very much since Trump has largely abandoned his campaign promises of an America first (i.e., neutrality and diplomacy over force) foreign policy platform and opted to become a slightly kinder and gentler neo-conservative.

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  24. Thomm says:

    A large part of this is that after our victory in WW2, defense was a large part of our GDP and as an industry, it has to justify its own continuance and generate new revenue for itself.

    That is one of the many factors present here.

    Almost anyone who truly cares about defense will admit that our defense budget can easily be slashed in half without any decrease in our safety.

    Large nation-states no longer go to war with America, and the methods to effectively counter terrorists need not be as expensive as the ineffective methods America has used. Frankly, the way to stop Islamic terror is to identify and publicly list the top 100 people responsible for it (either funding, ideology, or leadership), and kill them + freeze their assets. That is it. Eliminate the 100 key people, and radical Islamic terror diminishes greatly.

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  25. TG says:

    I think one particularly pragmatic statesman said something to the effect of, that a particular policy was worse than evil, it was stupid.

    I do point out, what the mass media continues to ignore, that the misery in Syria is really not our fault. It is the fault of the Syrian government’s deliberate creation of a population explosion – even making the sale and possession of contraceptives a crime! – and the population doubled, and doubled, and the water ran out…

    http://globuspallidusxi.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-real-story-on-syria-forced.html

    Syria is a small country and mostly arid plateau. Water is something that you just can’t make, not in quantities large enough for significant agriculture. Syria would have collapsed anyhow, our (admittedly stupid) interventions just tarred us with blame for what is really not our fault.

    But the press has censored any mention of demographics. Because if we could freely discuss how Syria’s population policy plunged that nation into misery, it would be hard to avoid talking about our own nation’s population policy….

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    You are correct that over population causes problems but not in saying that it was THE problem with Syria. Foreign mercenaries and fanatics paid, supplied and assisted by the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel and of course the peace-loving USA are the main reason for the horror that Syria endures today.
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  26. Thirdeye says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    let Israel fight it’s own bully wars on it’s own for a change.
     
    That would be neither a moral nor just position to take. We, the USA, played a major role in creating monster Israel. We have an obligation to "confess our sins; do penance; make reparations."

    If ever a cause existed for Americans to fight to reclaim their values and their moral integrity, it would be to fight to contain, or better yet, quoting Obama, to "degrade and destroy" the zionist rot emanating from Israel and its malign influence on USA.

    -----
    @ Randal


    The US has not fought a just war since at least the 1990 war against Iraq, and that one was pretty dubious.
     
    Pat has written and argued that US involvement in WWII in Europe was an <a href = "http://www.unz.org/Pub/BuchananPatrick-2008"Unnecessary War."
    If Just War principles require that:

    "it must be waged as a last resort, to address a wrong suffered, and by a legitimate authority,"
     
    then the claim that a war was "unnecessary" seems to demonstrate that it was not "waged as a last resort."
    Therefore, US involvement in WWII in Europe did not comply with Just War principles.

    Just War theory has two major components: principles for when one may wage a war, and those for how a war ought to be fought, once joined. Pat alluded to this second category with this statement:


    Deaths of civilians are justified only if they are unavoidable victims of a deliberate attack on a military target.
     
    In the course of the war against Germany in the 1940s, the USA (along with its allies) engaged in some of the most egregious, deliberate targeting of- and crimes against- civilian noncombatants in the history of modern warfare.

    USA pegs its rise to superpower status, and its burst of prosperity, to its victory over Germany and Japan in World War II.

    If that victory was the outcome of a war illegitimately joined, and immorally fought, war, then the USA has prospered on the fruits of a rotten tree.

    Because the American people have been not only deluded -- propagandized -- but actively compelled under threat of taboo, censorship, career loss, etc., to believe that their involvement in WWII was just and moral, the effort of the "greatest generation," they have not confronted the crimes committed in their name, nor come to terms with the real source of their prosperity and superpower status. Like an addict, or any criminal habituated to the seeming success of his/her criminal behavior, the USA keeps repeating the behavior -- until it hits the wall.

    Randal mentioned the 1990 war (against Iraq). Prof. Jeffrey Engel studied the archives to determine how and why the George H W Bush team waged that war. In a speech at Texas A&M in 2013, Engel said:


    Bush saw in the Gulf War AN OPPORTUNITY as well as an invasion, a point that I will make by way of conclusion. .. He saw within it a chance to demonstrate that Washington would continue to lead. Leading it in particular towards the kind of world promised to His generation as their reward for service in World War II. It would be a world he said, Quote “Where the United Nations freed from Cold War stalemates [i.e. checked by no other counterbalancing power -ed.] is poised to fulfill its historic vision of its founders” End Quote http://www.c-span.org/video/?310832-1/book-discussion-desert-reflections-gulf-war
     
    USA has done just that: as it won a war over Germany & Japan by firebombing innocent civilians and destroying cultures in 1942 - 1945, in flagrant disregard of all moral compunctions, so it has firebombed and destroyed cities and cultures throughout the ME (and elsewhere) over the ensuing years.

    ---
    Rurik has argued that harking back to WWII is the wrong battle, but that the deception involved in 9/11 should be the rallying point. I agree that 9/11 and its coverup are egregious wrongs that must be addressed, but they exist on the continuum whose point of origin is in FDR's administration (if not Woodrow Wilson's).

    The point of origin would be J.P. Morgan. He invested in the Brits’ war and launched the effort to get the US away from neutrality to protect his investment. Unseating William Jennings Bryan, who as Secretary of State favored following the laws on neutrality, was his coup.

    The entanglement of financing an empire over whom the US had no political control remained until Roosevelt told Churchill what’s what on the terms of US involvement in WWII, in May 1941. It was politically necessary as even pro-interventionists were less than enthusiastic about having Americans die to prop up Britain’s tottering empire. The aftermath of the WWI was still fresh in memory. Churchill, of course, did everything he could to subvert those terms up to his last days in office.

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  27. @Cloak And Dagger
    Even before the creature from Jekyll Island, there have been failed attempts to create a central bank to control the finances of this country by the Rothschild cabal. Andrew Jackson's closing of the second Federal Bank is an instance of this. It is a pity that the quote attributed to him was not his:

    You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out.
     
    Nonetheless, it would not surprise me if that is what he believed and there is no reason why that couldn't be our rallying cry against the stranglehold of global jewish bankers that have incarnated Dante's Inferno on this planet.

    Yes, 9/11 is just another milepost along the long road littered with the graves of innocents from before any of us was born, and the road fades into the horizon before us with no end in sight.

    More than just another milepost, 9/11 is THE thread to pull on in order to unravel the interwoven threads of deceit, corruption and crimes that are/have destroyed the USA. Rurik is correct.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Cloak And Dagger
    No doubt, if that thread could be pulled effectively, the whole enchilada would unravel. Over the past ~16 years, there have been several moments when revelations from (supposed) eye witnesses have given us hope that such an apocalypse was imminent. The most recent one was the (alleged) deathbed confession of a puported CIA operative who claimed to have participated in the 9/11 drama (apparently debunked by Snopes: http://www.business2community.com/us-news/cia-agent-confessing-deathbed-government-blowing-world-trade-center-911-fake-news-01880508#BuecMmQPhsVA6Xwp.97). But, each of these have led nowhere.

    So, I have little hope of that unraveling coming to pass.
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  28. @Assistant Village Idiot
    Evangelicals are not attempting to force the Second Coming with their pro-Israel sympathies. I have never heard one say any such thing in my senior-citizen life. They may be wrong or misguided or unthinking or any number of other blamable things, but this one springs entirely from the fevered imaginations of their critics. It is a misinterpretation based on the desire of Christians for the return of Christ - which is not the same thing as taking actions to force His hand.

    That’s a cop-out! Surely in between their Bible studies they’ve had time enough to understand the concept of cause and effect? What is the point of praying to a higher power while at the same time ones actions defile the very values that motivate one to pray in the first place? Does praying absolve one from taking responsibility for ones actions? I would have thought not.

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  29. @TG
    I think one particularly pragmatic statesman said something to the effect of, that a particular policy was worse than evil, it was stupid.

    I do point out, what the mass media continues to ignore, that the misery in Syria is really not our fault. It is the fault of the Syrian government's deliberate creation of a population explosion - even making the sale and possession of contraceptives a crime! - and the population doubled, and doubled, and the water ran out...

    http://globuspallidusxi.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-real-story-on-syria-forced.html

    Syria is a small country and mostly arid plateau. Water is something that you just can't make, not in quantities large enough for significant agriculture. Syria would have collapsed anyhow, our (admittedly stupid) interventions just tarred us with blame for what is really not our fault.

    But the press has censored any mention of demographics. Because if we could freely discuss how Syria's population policy plunged that nation into misery, it would be hard to avoid talking about our own nation's population policy....

    You are correct that over population causes problems but not in saying that it was THE problem with Syria. Foreign mercenaries and fanatics paid, supplied and assisted by the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Israel and of course the peace-loving USA are the main reason for the horror that Syria endures today.

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  30. America’s wars are just and moral as long as those wars are fought on behalf of God and his chosen ONES

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  31. America has fought immoral wars for so long that some of its allies now consider this to be normal and acceptable conduct. Saudi Arabia’s immoral war in Yemen would be egregious, were it not for Americas multiple wars in the Middle East.

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  32. @NoseytheDuke
    More than just another milepost, 9/11 is THE thread to pull on in order to unravel the interwoven threads of deceit, corruption and crimes that are/have destroyed the USA. Rurik is correct.

    No doubt, if that thread could be pulled effectively, the whole enchilada would unravel. Over the past ~16 years, there have been several moments when revelations from (supposed) eye witnesses have given us hope that such an apocalypse was imminent. The most recent one was the (alleged) deathbed confession of a puported CIA operative who claimed to have participated in the 9/11 drama (apparently debunked by Snopes: http://www.business2community.com/us-news/cia-agent-confessing-deathbed-government-blowing-world-trade-center-911-fake-news-01880508#BuecMmQPhsVA6Xwp.97). But, each of these have led nowhere.

    So, I have little hope of that unraveling coming to pass.

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  33. @nickels
    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.
    The body of Christians is Israel.

    Unfortunately, there are some loopy Catholics who read the “Left Behind” books and have bought into Zionism as have some other Christians.

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  34. @Rurik

    Pat is Catholic. Catholics are not Zionists.
     
    yes I know. But Catholics are Christians, and as such, they ought to know and speak out against the Satanic/murderous influences in the Christian body. No?

    If someone of Pat's stature in the Christian body were to tell the truth about the Christian Zionists, then perhaps he could effect real change. Even if he was persecuted for telling the truth.

    Mel did it (told the truth as he saw it) and was persecuted for his efforts, but also beautified and graced at the same time.

    Me thinks you want to see Pat Buchanan condemned and ostracized.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    Me thinks you want to see Pat Buchanan condemned and ostracized.
     
    not at all

    I consider Mr. Buchanan a giant on the American cultural and intellectual stage. A genuine American patriot and a national treasure.

    I just think that all the things he laments vis-a-vis the death of the West, are all a consequence of the scourge of this particular brand of Christian Zionism, and perhaps he might want to point that out, without repudiating any tenant of Christianity that is sound, salient, and/or sacred. That's all.
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  35. @Rurik
    Hello AVI,

    Evangelicals are not attempting to force the Second Coming with their pro-Israel sympathies. I have never heard one say any such thing in my senior-citizen life. ... .... It is a misinterpretation based on the desire of Christians for the return of Christ – which is not the same thing as taking actions to force His hand.
     
    I don't expect that they ever really put it quite that way, but let me ask you respectfully...

    why do the Christian Zionists vote for men like Lindsey Graham who is quite obviously a raging war monger?

    is it not because he promises to do all he can to support the Jewish Zionists as they genocide the Palestinians (including the Christian Palestinians) out of their ancient lands, that the Christian Zionists believe God promised to the Jews?

    (if you're honest, I suspect that you'd answer in the affirmative)

    and why do the Christian Zionists do that, unless it's to foment the Second Coming?

    This isn't rocket science, it's simple logic. They do what they do - support war mongers and the slaughter of innocents in the holy land... because they believe that when the Jews return to Israel, according to their (twisted version of) scripture, that it will herald the Second Coming.

    Is that not so?

    and if it is indeed so, then how am I wrong in positing that what they're trying to do is force the Second Coming of the Lord, by facilitating the return of the Jews to biblical Israel, so that they can be rewarded with their thousand years of rapture?

    as far as everything I've read and heard and learned about it, this is exactly the scenario that we're facing today.

    although it's true that not too many preachers (with their Israeli government supplied private jets) - put it in quite those terms.

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/falwell_jet_rogues_gallery.jpg


    but please do correct me if I'm somehow mistaken about any of that..

    You are mistaken in the premillennial, dispensationslist view of the rapture.

    These people believe that the true believers (themselves) will be raptured up to heaven right before Armageddon, and then there will be a tribulation lasting seven years, and then Jesus will come to earth and reign from Jerusalem as an earthly potentate for a thousand years.

    These people refuse to accept that Armageddon already happened in 70 AD when Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    These people believe that the true believers (themselves) will be raptured up to heaven right before Armageddon, and then there will be a tribulation lasting seven years, and then Jesus will come to earth and reign from Jerusalem as an earthly potentate for a thousand years.
     
    do they believe that during that thousand years (of rapture? as I understand it), that they will personally cavort and glory in the grace and presence of the Christ Himself? IOW are they expecting some wondrous personal payoff for their murderous, thieving and genocidal intentions in the holy land?

    (I'm not being hyperbolic IMHO, but objectively factual when I characterize their voting habits and the policies of their respective political representatives)

    as I understand it, they're sacrificing the Palestinians (including the Christian ones) for their personal experience of a thousand years of rapture with the Christ

    . http://cdn.charismanews.com/images/stories/2015/featured-news/Facebook-John-Hagee.JPG

    That's how I've always understood it, and why I've sat horrified at what they've wrought over there. It seemed to me that George W. Bush could lie us into wars all day long so long as he mentioned 'Jesus' from time to time, and mollified the Christian Zionist preachers.

    Indeed, I suspect that George W. Bush is a hero of the Dispensationalist evangelicals even to this day, especially with (or even because of) all the blood on his war criminal hands.

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  36. Sparkon says:

    Whom the Gods would destroy…

    They first give a movie star president…

    And as the Reagan presidency empowered Bush and his neocon henchmen, it also unleashed the Gipper’s “voodoo economics” — where the national debt was tripled over Reagan’s years — and the union-busting, deregulation, offshoring, and outsourcing that resulted in many American manufacturing and tech jobs being lost to China, and India.

    And speaking of meddling in U.S. elections, could the Iranians have made it any more clear that a deal had been stuck with the Reaganauts, than in the way the hostages were released the minute Ronnie was sworn in?

    Where was all the media frenzy, and breathless hysteria about “collusion” then? Of course, it wasn’t just collusion, it was arms for hostages, and no October Surprise, which might have tipped the election to Carter, who certainly had legal authority to negotiate with the Iranians, where Reagan did not.

    Reagan also signed the Simpson–Mazzoli Act in 1986, which granted amnesty to about 3 million illegal immigrants living in the U.S.A.

    On the positive side of the slate, just about everybody seemed to love Ronald Reagan, who was in fact quite a smash hit with the starlets when he first hit Hollywood, being linked to the likes of Betty Grable, Doris Day, even Marilyn Monroe, so it’s a small surprise that the relatively mousy little Nancy Davis was able to win the Gipper’s hand, perhaps simply because she could stand being called “Mommy Poo Pants,” where the other dames couldn’t.

    Well, the Gipper’s gone, but it doesn’t look like the Gods are quite done yet…

    The evil that men do lives after them;
    The good is oft interred with their bones
    –William Shakespeare

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  37. Wow, Mr. Buchanan. you’ve really gone and done it this time! Fantastic comments reflecting shock of your readers, even though this is hardly the first time that you have published unvarnished truth.

    But I think someone here should remind:

    ” [The Congress shall have Power...] To declare War ”

    – U.S. Const., Art. I, Sect. 8, Clause 11

    That, and the doctrine of the separation of powers.

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  38. Speaking of fighting just wars is ridiculous. The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany. All the other wars fought out of a confusion of mind, especially since 1990 and after 9/11. What the US military and political class have done to the Middle East is a war crime according to the Nuremberg Principles. George W. Bush and his gang, Obama, and Hillary Clinton should stand trial a the Criminal Court at The Hague.

    The US and its criminal allies such as the Saudis and the other corrupt Arab regimes started the uprising in Syria in 2011. The CIA fabricated these protests and supported the so-called moderate rebels that are just terrorist gangs such as ISIS and al-Qaeda. The only moderates in this civil war are the Russians, the Iranians, President al-Assad, and Hizbollah who defend an elected President from being overthrown by outside forces.

    When the three Amazons, i. e. Clinton, Rice, and Power pushed Obama into the Libyan adventure to overthrow Gaddafi; President Putin promised that he would never be led astray again because the UN Security Resolution on Lybia perverted by the US and its Western vassal states.

    President Trump made the right decision to stop the support of the moderate terrorists. If the Saudis and the Israelis, two beacons of Western values, want to fight al-Assad let them do. It would be much better if the US would disassociate itself from the rogue regimes to regain its old reputation it once had.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    Please define with excruciating specificity how that war was "just."

    nb. An argument along the lines that "Hitler declared war on USA" is not adequate.
    Here's why:
    In his book, "The Worth of War," Benjamin Ginsberg claims "there is no such thing as nonviolent resistance." He cites the example of Martin Luther King, who understood that an entity that has little power gets its way by "provoking and provoking and provoking" an adversary, until that adversary is compelled to react, whereupon the powerless entity calls upon its massively powerful friends to drop the hammer on the adversary.

    A similar dynamic played out in the case of Germany vis a vis Britain-France-Jewish zionists- and FDR.

    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that "pulling the 9/11 thread" will unravel the "whole enchilada."

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of "provoke - provoke - provokes" carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers' involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.

    I hammer away at this argument for several reasons, the most important one being that the US Congress, led by the same primary operators -- zionist Israel-firsters and their traitorous American toadies, are enacting the same strategy regarding Russia, Iran and North Korea.

    Yesterday the US Congress voted 4__ ?? to 3 in favor of a bill, drafted by Eliot Engel, D-Israel, to impose sanctions intended to cripple the economies of Iran, Russia and NK.

    In 1933, "International Jewry" declared an economic war intended to "bring Germany to its knees" by destroying its export economy, "upon which Germany's existence depends."

    I respect those who think another approach should be taken to awaken the American people, and to organize resistance to the schemes of "the fiend," aka "the Borg;" Do Your Thing; Go Forth and give 'em hell. I'll occupy my soap box and try to get across a point -- a set of facts and patterns -- that I think is important.

    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.
    , @MEexpert

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    As I wrote in my post #7, the last just war was the American revolution war, for freedom, against Great Britain. Since then every war America has fought has been war of choice. The results of these wars have been death and destruction of innocent life and property.
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  39. OMG.

    I’ve almost given up on Mr B.

    I don’t know what happened, but the gentleman is mercifully back on track, placing blame where it belongs.

    Good one, sir!

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  40. Rurik says: • Website
    @Minnesota Mary
    Me thinks you want to see Pat Buchanan condemned and ostracized.

    Me thinks you want to see Pat Buchanan condemned and ostracized.

    not at all

    I consider Mr. Buchanan a giant on the American cultural and intellectual stage. A genuine American patriot and a national treasure.

    I just think that all the things he laments vis-a-vis the death of the West, are all a consequence of the scourge of this particular brand of Christian Zionism, and perhaps he might want to point that out, without repudiating any tenant of Christianity that is sound, salient, and/or sacred. That’s all.

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  41. Rurik says: • Website
    @Minnesota Mary
    You are mistaken in the premillennial, dispensationslist view of the rapture.

    These people believe that the true believers (themselves) will be raptured up to heaven right before Armageddon, and then there will be a tribulation lasting seven years, and then Jesus will come to earth and reign from Jerusalem as an earthly potentate for a thousand years.

    These people refuse to accept that Armageddon already happened in 70 AD when Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.

    These people believe that the true believers (themselves) will be raptured up to heaven right before Armageddon, and then there will be a tribulation lasting seven years, and then Jesus will come to earth and reign from Jerusalem as an earthly potentate for a thousand years.

    do they believe that during that thousand years (of rapture? as I understand it), that they will personally cavort and glory in the grace and presence of the Christ Himself? IOW are they expecting some wondrous personal payoff for their murderous, thieving and genocidal intentions in the holy land?

    (I’m not being hyperbolic IMHO, but objectively factual when I characterize their voting habits and the policies of their respective political representatives)

    as I understand it, they’re sacrificing the Palestinians (including the Christian ones) for their personal experience of a thousand years of rapture with the Christ

    .
    That’s how I’ve always understood it, and why I’ve sat horrified at what they’ve wrought over there. It seemed to me that George W. Bush could lie us into wars all day long so long as he mentioned ‘Jesus’ from time to time, and mollified the Christian Zionist preachers.

    Indeed, I suspect that George W. Bush is a hero of the Dispensationalist evangelicals even to this day, especially with (or even because of) all the blood on his war criminal hands.

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    • Replies: @Minnesota Mary
    You need to know that there are Premillenial Dispensationlists, Postmillenials, and Amillenials. They differ in their beliefs. I suggest you get a copy of David Currie's book, "Rapture" with the subtitle, "The End Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind" to get a full understanding of the Rapture peoples' thinking. Currie was raised on the Rapture and came out of it. His book on the end times is the best I have ever read. He knows history, the Bible, and "The Works of Josephus."

    These people believe that they will be raptured up to heaven with Jesus right before the 7 year tribulation. They won't be coming back to earth with Jesus after the Tribulation. They will be the new saints in heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus will return to earth and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
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  42. @Ludwig Watzal
    Speaking of fighting just wars is ridiculous. The last "just war" the US fought was against Hitler Germany. All the other wars fought out of a confusion of mind, especially since 1990 and after 9/11. What the US military and political class have done to the Middle East is a war crime according to the Nuremberg Principles. George W. Bush and his gang, Obama, and Hillary Clinton should stand trial a the Criminal Court at The Hague.

    The US and its criminal allies such as the Saudis and the other corrupt Arab regimes started the uprising in Syria in 2011. The CIA fabricated these protests and supported the so-called moderate rebels that are just terrorist gangs such as ISIS and al-Qaeda. The only moderates in this civil war are the Russians, the Iranians, President al-Assad, and Hizbollah who defend an elected President from being overthrown by outside forces.

    When the three Amazons, i. e. Clinton, Rice, and Power pushed Obama into the Libyan adventure to overthrow Gaddafi; President Putin promised that he would never be led astray again because the UN Security Resolution on Lybia perverted by the US and its Western vassal states.

    President Trump made the right decision to stop the support of the moderate terrorists. If the Saudis and the Israelis, two beacons of Western values, want to fight al-Assad let them do. It would be much better if the US would disassociate itself from the rogue regimes to regain its old reputation it once had.

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.

    Please define with excruciating specificity how that war was “just.”

    nb. An argument along the lines that “Hitler declared war on USA” is not adequate.
    Here’s why:
    In his book, “The Worth of War,” Benjamin Ginsberg claims “there is no such thing as nonviolent resistance.” He cites the example of Martin Luther King, who understood that an entity that has little power gets its way by “provoking and provoking and provoking” an adversary, until that adversary is compelled to react, whereupon the powerless entity calls upon its massively powerful friends to drop the hammer on the adversary.

    A similar dynamic played out in the case of Germany vis a vis Britain-France-Jewish zionists- and FDR.

    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that “pulling the 9/11 thread” will unravel the “whole enchilada.”

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of “provoke – provoke – provokes” carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers’ involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.

    I hammer away at this argument for several reasons, the most important one being that the US Congress, led by the same primary operators — zionist Israel-firsters and their traitorous American toadies, are enacting the same strategy regarding Russia, Iran and North Korea.

    Yesterday the US Congress voted 4__ ?? to 3 in favor of a bill, drafted by Eliot Engel, D-Israel, to impose sanctions intended to cripple the economies of Iran, Russia and NK.

    In 1933, “International Jewry” declared an economic war intended to “bring Germany to its knees” by destroying its export economy, “upon which Germany’s existence depends.”

    I respect those who think another approach should be taken to awaken the American people, and to organize resistance to the schemes of “the fiend,” aka “the Borg;” Do Your Thing; Go Forth and give ‘em hell. I’ll occupy my soap box and try to get across a point — a set of facts and patterns — that I think is important.

    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.

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    • Replies: @Liberty Mike
    Put another way:

    Regarding the justness of America's WWII cause, if A makes war on B even though B did not attack A, and C arms A, and C embargoes B's goods, harasses B's shipping, and unofficially engages in acts of violence against B, how can it be said that A's official war-making against C, including its mass murder of C's non-combatants, is just?

    , @Cloak And Dagger

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    I agree - that was not a "just war" by any definition. It was, however, a masterpiece of deceit. There is no possible justification for the *genocide of Dresden, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima, not to mention the countless other less mentioned *genocides by Stalin and the Jewish world order. The subsequent Nuremberg trials was just as farcical with manufactured "evidence" and coerced confessions, not to mention the even more deceitful Holocaust narrative that would add more salt to the wounds.

    Many of my German friends express their frustration with how they are being punished even today for a crime that never happened - but whose very mention can lead to years of incarceration and worse.


    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that “pulling the 9/11 thread” will unravel the “whole enchilada.”
     
    I can't speak for the others, but I did mention that I thought that this was unlikely and I had little hope of it happening. Frankly, I don't know what will unravel the absolute power of those who have inserted themselves into all aspects of politics, finance, and media. Their control is so complete that chinks in their armor are soon repaired and they continue forth unassailed.

    These are dark times indeed.


    * Yes I deliberately used the word 'genocide', other definitions of the word notwithstanding.

    , @NoseytheDuke
    I don't disagree with what you have written here especially regarding the FED, I just think that the 9/11 thread is the best one to pull at this time considering the evidence available, the lividity of the perps and the relevance to the average American citizen leading to the required outrage.
    , @Rurik

    “pulling the 9/11 thread” will unravel the “whole enchilada.”

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of “provoke – provoke – provokes” carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers’ involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.
     

    what a nice, concise little synopsis SC

    and you could take that one step back to the Rothschild banking family and the Napoleonic wars, or even go back to Oliver Cromwell allowing the Jews to return to England. Or if you wanted, you could go back to Babylon and the creation of fiat money. When they discovered that a piece of paper denoting gold, could be used as gold itself! And that's when they discovered that the alchemists who were trying to turn lead into gold, were armatures. They had discovered how to turn paper into gold, and now it's binary bits conjured by a few key strokes on their computer that can create trillions of dollars out of thin air to accomplish everything that your narrative describes and more.

    Ultimately what I'd like for people to understand is that the Fed gives ((them)) total power over our societies, and with that total power they're like that guy from that science fiction movie who has 'monsters from his id',

    http://vintageexposition.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/forbidden-planet-morbius-c.jpg

    that can manifest anything he wants, and what he wants harkens back to Carl Sagan's ... Demon-Haunted World of our limbic and reptilian brains.

    it is from this reptilian (or 'triune' brain)

    http://justwriteonline.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a55c9cd1970c01b8d13eb787970c-800wi

    .. that the things you mention; the burning alive of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children, (not to mention centuries of Barouche culture and sublime achievement) in Dresden... or indeed, the final solution and ultimate destruction of all Christendom (and any Muslim country that gets in the way).. are all manifested here on earth.

    They simply have been given unlimited power with the Fed. And they are using it. And will continue to, unless we can somehow wrest that nefarious power from them. If we can't, then I can pretty much guarantee you that this century will ultimately end up much like the last one. And it will be the nail in Western civilization's coffin.


    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.
     
    I hope so SC, (and all the rest of us who value our collective history, and the thousands upon thousands of years of struggle to get to where we are today, only to have it all burned down to the ground...

    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3804930/images/o-DRESDEN-BOMBING-facebook.jpg

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140515175210-34-week-in-photos-0515-restricted-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

    ...to mollify the demons of an envious, angry and petulant id).

    http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/06/19/8c7f3c93-de26-46aa-aaa3-28be79337f26/resize/620x465/7eb9eec127f1eaa7afbf3864f559413f/twilight-zone-its-a-good-life.jpg

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  43. @SolontoCroesus

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    Please define with excruciating specificity how that war was "just."

    nb. An argument along the lines that "Hitler declared war on USA" is not adequate.
    Here's why:
    In his book, "The Worth of War," Benjamin Ginsberg claims "there is no such thing as nonviolent resistance." He cites the example of Martin Luther King, who understood that an entity that has little power gets its way by "provoking and provoking and provoking" an adversary, until that adversary is compelled to react, whereupon the powerless entity calls upon its massively powerful friends to drop the hammer on the adversary.

    A similar dynamic played out in the case of Germany vis a vis Britain-France-Jewish zionists- and FDR.

    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that "pulling the 9/11 thread" will unravel the "whole enchilada."

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of "provoke - provoke - provokes" carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers' involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.

    I hammer away at this argument for several reasons, the most important one being that the US Congress, led by the same primary operators -- zionist Israel-firsters and their traitorous American toadies, are enacting the same strategy regarding Russia, Iran and North Korea.

    Yesterday the US Congress voted 4__ ?? to 3 in favor of a bill, drafted by Eliot Engel, D-Israel, to impose sanctions intended to cripple the economies of Iran, Russia and NK.

    In 1933, "International Jewry" declared an economic war intended to "bring Germany to its knees" by destroying its export economy, "upon which Germany's existence depends."

    I respect those who think another approach should be taken to awaken the American people, and to organize resistance to the schemes of "the fiend," aka "the Borg;" Do Your Thing; Go Forth and give 'em hell. I'll occupy my soap box and try to get across a point -- a set of facts and patterns -- that I think is important.

    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.

    Put another way:

    Regarding the justness of America’s WWII cause, if A makes war on B even though B did not attack A, and C arms A, and C embargoes B’s goods, harasses B’s shipping, and unofficially engages in acts of violence against B, how can it be said that A’s official war-making against C, including its mass murder of C’s non-combatants, is just?

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  44. @Rurik

    What justifies America’s participation in this slaughter?
     
    well Pat, being as you are an overt Christian, you ought to know that the justification comes directly from the 70 million Christian Zionists here in the ZUS who support all these wars, and vote for Lindsey Graham and John McBloodstain and others in order to slaughter enough Muslims so that the Jews will return to Biblical Israel and the Christian Zionists will then be able to force the second coming of Jesus Christ and get their thousand years of rapture!

    Duh

    So since I know that you know this, and you know that these Christians are the voting block that the Zionists have been counting on for decades, why don't you ever write about them? Without these bloodthirsty Christians, howling for war, war, war!!! There'd be no more of these Satanic wars, and you know it.


    Its ancient Christian peoples are fleeing for their lives before US and Saudi takfiri religious fanatics.”
     
    from the perspective of Lindsey Graham and McBloodstain (and their Christian voting supporters) a few slaughtered and raped and crucified Christians sacrificed for their personal prize of a thousand years of rapture is a price *"they're"* easily! willing to pay. Especially since they're just brown Christians anyways, and like the Palestinian Christians, don't really matter, do they?

    What injury did the Assad regime, in power for half a century and having never attacked us, inflict to justify what we have helped to do to that country?
     
    when you're talking about a thousand years of rapture, or in the case of the Christian preachers - getting a brand new Gulfstream! who cares?!

    Is this war moral by our own standards?
     
    if you mean Christian standards, as they're applied in the ZUS, then yes, of course!

    Will that be our epitaph?
     
    'We murdered children for Jesus Christ'

    malnourished millions in Yemen, represent a moral cost that seems far beyond any proportional moral gain from those conflicts.
     
    the gain isn't moral, rather it's measured in personal ecstasy and durational

    http://finkorswim.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/the-rapture.jpg


    As the peoples of Syria and the other broken and bleeding countries of the Middle East flee to Europe and America, will not some come with revenge on their minds and hatred in their hearts?
     
    and who are the driving force behind facilitating all these Muslims into Western lands?

    is not Merkel and those who will reelect her "Christian" Democrats?

    are not the people who've facilitated all the Somalis into Minnesota (like the one that just shot that woman in her pajamas [three times!]) .. Christians?

    and yet for all of that, I don't think I remember Pat Buchanan even once offering even tepid criticism for all the Christian who're obviously behind all these wars and horrors that he so eloquently (and myopically) bemoans.

    pat’s a christian. a true believer, i believe.

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  45. @Si1ver1ock
    In a way it is kind of funny. Pat is basically saying:

    "Who knew that when we got rid of all those stupid peaceniks, all we would have left is warmongers?"

    Are America's Wars Just and Moral?

    The answer is blowing in the wind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ayV1XU0csE

    bob dylan wrote blowin’ in the wind. perhaps his recording would have been a better choice.

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  46. @SolontoCroesus

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    Please define with excruciating specificity how that war was "just."

    nb. An argument along the lines that "Hitler declared war on USA" is not adequate.
    Here's why:
    In his book, "The Worth of War," Benjamin Ginsberg claims "there is no such thing as nonviolent resistance." He cites the example of Martin Luther King, who understood that an entity that has little power gets its way by "provoking and provoking and provoking" an adversary, until that adversary is compelled to react, whereupon the powerless entity calls upon its massively powerful friends to drop the hammer on the adversary.

    A similar dynamic played out in the case of Germany vis a vis Britain-France-Jewish zionists- and FDR.

    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that "pulling the 9/11 thread" will unravel the "whole enchilada."

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of "provoke - provoke - provokes" carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers' involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.

    I hammer away at this argument for several reasons, the most important one being that the US Congress, led by the same primary operators -- zionist Israel-firsters and their traitorous American toadies, are enacting the same strategy regarding Russia, Iran and North Korea.

    Yesterday the US Congress voted 4__ ?? to 3 in favor of a bill, drafted by Eliot Engel, D-Israel, to impose sanctions intended to cripple the economies of Iran, Russia and NK.

    In 1933, "International Jewry" declared an economic war intended to "bring Germany to its knees" by destroying its export economy, "upon which Germany's existence depends."

    I respect those who think another approach should be taken to awaken the American people, and to organize resistance to the schemes of "the fiend," aka "the Borg;" Do Your Thing; Go Forth and give 'em hell. I'll occupy my soap box and try to get across a point -- a set of facts and patterns -- that I think is important.

    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.

    I agree – that was not a “just war” by any definition. It was, however, a masterpiece of deceit. There is no possible justification for the *genocide of Dresden, Nagasaki, and Hiroshima, not to mention the countless other less mentioned *genocides by Stalin and the Jewish world order. The subsequent Nuremberg trials was just as farcical with manufactured “evidence” and coerced confessions, not to mention the even more deceitful Holocaust narrative that would add more salt to the wounds.

    Many of my German friends express their frustration with how they are being punished even today for a crime that never happened – but whose very mention can lead to years of incarceration and worse.

    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that “pulling the 9/11 thread” will unravel the “whole enchilada.”

    I can’t speak for the others, but I did mention that I thought that this was unlikely and I had little hope of it happening. Frankly, I don’t know what will unravel the absolute power of those who have inserted themselves into all aspects of politics, finance, and media. Their control is so complete that chinks in their armor are soon repaired and they continue forth unassailed.

    These are dark times indeed.

    * Yes I deliberately used the word ‘genocide’, other definitions of the word notwithstanding.

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  47. @Rurik

    These people believe that the true believers (themselves) will be raptured up to heaven right before Armageddon, and then there will be a tribulation lasting seven years, and then Jesus will come to earth and reign from Jerusalem as an earthly potentate for a thousand years.
     
    do they believe that during that thousand years (of rapture? as I understand it), that they will personally cavort and glory in the grace and presence of the Christ Himself? IOW are they expecting some wondrous personal payoff for their murderous, thieving and genocidal intentions in the holy land?

    (I'm not being hyperbolic IMHO, but objectively factual when I characterize their voting habits and the policies of their respective political representatives)

    as I understand it, they're sacrificing the Palestinians (including the Christian ones) for their personal experience of a thousand years of rapture with the Christ

    . http://cdn.charismanews.com/images/stories/2015/featured-news/Facebook-John-Hagee.JPG

    That's how I've always understood it, and why I've sat horrified at what they've wrought over there. It seemed to me that George W. Bush could lie us into wars all day long so long as he mentioned 'Jesus' from time to time, and mollified the Christian Zionist preachers.

    Indeed, I suspect that George W. Bush is a hero of the Dispensationalist evangelicals even to this day, especially with (or even because of) all the blood on his war criminal hands.

    You need to know that there are Premillenial Dispensationlists, Postmillenials, and Amillenials. They differ in their beliefs. I suggest you get a copy of David Currie’s book, “Rapture” with the subtitle, “The End Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind” to get a full understanding of the Rapture peoples’ thinking. Currie was raised on the Rapture and came out of it. His book on the end times is the best I have ever read. He knows history, the Bible, and “The Works of Josephus.”

    These people believe that they will be raptured up to heaven with Jesus right before the 7 year tribulation. They won’t be coming back to earth with Jesus after the Tribulation. They will be the new saints in heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus will return to earth and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    Why are the works of Josephus in quotes? Is that an Evangelical version of them, or something along those lines?
    , @Rurik

    ...Premillenial Dispensationlists, Postmillenials, and Amillenials...

    His book on the end times is the best I have ever read
     

    I want you to know Minnesota Mary, that I very much respect your efforts here to educate and edify us all as to these esoteric and convoluted doctrines and arcane knowledge from the obscure lore.

    Most of the Christians I know would never venture beyond a trite and shallow discussion about these things, because quite frankly, that's all they know or care about. At least that's been my observation. So thank you and kudos for your tenacity and obvious erudition.

    And if I might, I'd prefer for you to paraphrase the book's salient points for us here on Unz, who don't all the time or wherewithal to read the actual book.


    These people believe that they will be raptured up to heaven with Jesus right before the 7 year tribulation. They won’t be coming back to earth with Jesus after the Tribulation. They will be the new saints in heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus will return to earth and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
     
    is there a payoff for them?

    The reason I posted an image of the rapture, is because as I understand it, they will be selected for special glorification, while others (the non-believers) will perish in fires or other divine retribution, while the "rapture bunnies", (as they're often derisively referred to) will ascend to Heaven to consort in the company of Jesus Christ Himself

    the illustrations of the event are pretty unambiguous

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RkoA9trZlKE/TTRPPcbzp9I/AAAAAAAAAEQ/1qyMgbv05nc/s1600/At-the-rapture-jesus-17261138-300-408.jpg

    http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/26900000/rapture-jesus-26923179-636-503.jpg

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/images/theRapture/Jesus-is-coming-back-soon.jpg

    https://rapturewatcher.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/jesus-christ-introducing-raptured-saints-to-god.jpg

    there is a personal payoff when the rapture happens, and it isn't just some vague, (as I understand it) place in Heaven, but they will be selected for divine grace, and *feel* actual 'rapture', (a kind of ecstasy of sorts) that lasts for a very long time, perhaps forever if the characterization of yours that they will dwell in Heaven as saints for eternity, is true. While all the non-believers and unconverted Jews will all perish in God's wrathful judgment.

    No?

    Am I at least close? And if not, I would respectfully and gratefully appreciate being set straight, because what I'm describing is really what I've come to understand, albeit from a laypersons perspective.

    I admit that I didn't know they would linger in Heaven while Jesus returned to the earth to rule. I thought they were all going to stay in Jesus' company for the entire thousand years. In fact, I suspect that most of them believe just that, as I think you're a hundred times more thoughtful and educated than most of the ones I've conversed with vis-a-vis this complex and daunting subject.

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  48. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Minnesota Mary
    You need to know that there are Premillenial Dispensationlists, Postmillenials, and Amillenials. They differ in their beliefs. I suggest you get a copy of David Currie's book, "Rapture" with the subtitle, "The End Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind" to get a full understanding of the Rapture peoples' thinking. Currie was raised on the Rapture and came out of it. His book on the end times is the best I have ever read. He knows history, the Bible, and "The Works of Josephus."

    These people believe that they will be raptured up to heaven with Jesus right before the 7 year tribulation. They won't be coming back to earth with Jesus after the Tribulation. They will be the new saints in heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus will return to earth and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

    Why are the works of Josephus in quotes? Is that an Evangelical version of them, or something along those lines?

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  49. @SolontoCroesus

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    Please define with excruciating specificity how that war was "just."

    nb. An argument along the lines that "Hitler declared war on USA" is not adequate.
    Here's why:
    In his book, "The Worth of War," Benjamin Ginsberg claims "there is no such thing as nonviolent resistance." He cites the example of Martin Luther King, who understood that an entity that has little power gets its way by "provoking and provoking and provoking" an adversary, until that adversary is compelled to react, whereupon the powerless entity calls upon its massively powerful friends to drop the hammer on the adversary.

    A similar dynamic played out in the case of Germany vis a vis Britain-France-Jewish zionists- and FDR.

    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that "pulling the 9/11 thread" will unravel the "whole enchilada."

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of "provoke - provoke - provokes" carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers' involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.

    I hammer away at this argument for several reasons, the most important one being that the US Congress, led by the same primary operators -- zionist Israel-firsters and their traitorous American toadies, are enacting the same strategy regarding Russia, Iran and North Korea.

    Yesterday the US Congress voted 4__ ?? to 3 in favor of a bill, drafted by Eliot Engel, D-Israel, to impose sanctions intended to cripple the economies of Iran, Russia and NK.

    In 1933, "International Jewry" declared an economic war intended to "bring Germany to its knees" by destroying its export economy, "upon which Germany's existence depends."

    I respect those who think another approach should be taken to awaken the American people, and to organize resistance to the schemes of "the fiend," aka "the Borg;" Do Your Thing; Go Forth and give 'em hell. I'll occupy my soap box and try to get across a point -- a set of facts and patterns -- that I think is important.

    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.

    I don’t disagree with what you have written here especially regarding the FED, I just think that the 9/11 thread is the best one to pull at this time considering the evidence available, the lividity of the perps and the relevance to the average American citizen leading to the required outrage.

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  50. MEexpert says:
    @Ludwig Watzal
    Speaking of fighting just wars is ridiculous. The last "just war" the US fought was against Hitler Germany. All the other wars fought out of a confusion of mind, especially since 1990 and after 9/11. What the US military and political class have done to the Middle East is a war crime according to the Nuremberg Principles. George W. Bush and his gang, Obama, and Hillary Clinton should stand trial a the Criminal Court at The Hague.

    The US and its criminal allies such as the Saudis and the other corrupt Arab regimes started the uprising in Syria in 2011. The CIA fabricated these protests and supported the so-called moderate rebels that are just terrorist gangs such as ISIS and al-Qaeda. The only moderates in this civil war are the Russians, the Iranians, President al-Assad, and Hizbollah who defend an elected President from being overthrown by outside forces.

    When the three Amazons, i. e. Clinton, Rice, and Power pushed Obama into the Libyan adventure to overthrow Gaddafi; President Putin promised that he would never be led astray again because the UN Security Resolution on Lybia perverted by the US and its Western vassal states.

    President Trump made the right decision to stop the support of the moderate terrorists. If the Saudis and the Israelis, two beacons of Western values, want to fight al-Assad let them do. It would be much better if the US would disassociate itself from the rogue regimes to regain its old reputation it once had.

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.

    As I wrote in my post #7, the last just war was the American revolution war, for freedom, against Great Britain. Since then every war America has fought has been war of choice. The results of these wars have been death and destruction of innocent life and property.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    What about the War of 1812. Britain impressing American sailors was a slap in the face to American sovereignty.
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  51. TheOldOne says:

    All our wars have been unjust; we should have stayed with Britain instead of chasing “liberty”.

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  52. Rurik says: • Website
    @SolontoCroesus

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    Please define with excruciating specificity how that war was "just."

    nb. An argument along the lines that "Hitler declared war on USA" is not adequate.
    Here's why:
    In his book, "The Worth of War," Benjamin Ginsberg claims "there is no such thing as nonviolent resistance." He cites the example of Martin Luther King, who understood that an entity that has little power gets its way by "provoking and provoking and provoking" an adversary, until that adversary is compelled to react, whereupon the powerless entity calls upon its massively powerful friends to drop the hammer on the adversary.

    A similar dynamic played out in the case of Germany vis a vis Britain-France-Jewish zionists- and FDR.

    Rurik and Nosey the Duke & C&D think that "pulling the 9/11 thread" will unravel the "whole enchilada."

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of "provoke - provoke - provokes" carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers' involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.

    I hammer away at this argument for several reasons, the most important one being that the US Congress, led by the same primary operators -- zionist Israel-firsters and their traitorous American toadies, are enacting the same strategy regarding Russia, Iran and North Korea.

    Yesterday the US Congress voted 4__ ?? to 3 in favor of a bill, drafted by Eliot Engel, D-Israel, to impose sanctions intended to cripple the economies of Iran, Russia and NK.

    In 1933, "International Jewry" declared an economic war intended to "bring Germany to its knees" by destroying its export economy, "upon which Germany's existence depends."

    I respect those who think another approach should be taken to awaken the American people, and to organize resistance to the schemes of "the fiend," aka "the Borg;" Do Your Thing; Go Forth and give 'em hell. I'll occupy my soap box and try to get across a point -- a set of facts and patterns -- that I think is important.

    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.

    “pulling the 9/11 thread” will unravel the “whole enchilada.”

    I argue that that thread is anchored in the root of Anglo-zionist wars beginning with the Federal Reserve system (mimicking the Bank of England), then WWI, then the series of “provoke – provoke – provokes” carried out in Germany beginning with the post-armistice starvation of German civilians; the German revolution; Weimar; US, British, and Jewish financiers’ involvement in the creation of the economic collapse of Germany, leading up to 1933/Hitler taking power.

    what a nice, concise little synopsis SC

    and you could take that one step back to the Rothschild banking family and the Napoleonic wars, or even go back to Oliver Cromwell allowing the Jews to return to England. Or if you wanted, you could go back to Babylon and the creation of fiat money. When they discovered that a piece of paper denoting gold, could be used as gold itself! And that’s when they discovered that the alchemists who were trying to turn lead into gold, were armatures. They had discovered how to turn paper into gold, and now it’s binary bits conjured by a few key strokes on their computer that can create trillions of dollars out of thin air to accomplish everything that your narrative describes and more.

    Ultimately what I’d like for people to understand is that the Fed gives ((them)) total power over our societies, and with that total power they’re like that guy from that science fiction movie who has ‘monsters from his id’,

    that can manifest anything he wants, and what he wants harkens back to Carl Sagan’s … Demon-Haunted World of our limbic and reptilian brains.

    it is from this reptilian (or ‘triune’ brain)

    http://justwriteonline.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a55c9cd1970c01b8d13eb787970c-800wi

    .. that the things you mention; the burning alive of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children, (not to mention centuries of Barouche culture and sublime achievement) in Dresden… or indeed, the final solution and ultimate destruction of all Christendom (and any Muslim country that gets in the way).. are all manifested here on earth.

    They simply have been given unlimited power with the Fed. And they are using it. And will continue to, unless we can somehow wrest that nefarious power from them. If we can’t, then I can pretty much guarantee you that this century will ultimately end up much like the last one. And it will be the nail in Western civilization’s coffin.

    All things combined/considered, maybe we can make a difference.

    I hope so SC, (and all the rest of us who value our collective history, and the thousands upon thousands of years of struggle to get to where we are today, only to have it all burned down to the ground…

    …to mollify the demons of an envious, angry and petulant id).

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  53. Rurik says: • Website
    @Minnesota Mary
    You need to know that there are Premillenial Dispensationlists, Postmillenials, and Amillenials. They differ in their beliefs. I suggest you get a copy of David Currie's book, "Rapture" with the subtitle, "The End Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind" to get a full understanding of the Rapture peoples' thinking. Currie was raised on the Rapture and came out of it. His book on the end times is the best I have ever read. He knows history, the Bible, and "The Works of Josephus."

    These people believe that they will be raptured up to heaven with Jesus right before the 7 year tribulation. They won't be coming back to earth with Jesus after the Tribulation. They will be the new saints in heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus will return to earth and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

    …Premillenial Dispensationlists, Postmillenials, and Amillenials…

    His book on the end times is the best I have ever read

    I want you to know Minnesota Mary, that I very much respect your efforts here to educate and edify us all as to these esoteric and convoluted doctrines and arcane knowledge from the obscure lore.

    Most of the Christians I know would never venture beyond a trite and shallow discussion about these things, because quite frankly, that’s all they know or care about. At least that’s been my observation. So thank you and kudos for your tenacity and obvious erudition.

    And if I might, I’d prefer for you to paraphrase the book’s salient points for us here on Unz, who don’t all the time or wherewithal to read the actual book.

    These people believe that they will be raptured up to heaven with Jesus right before the 7 year tribulation. They won’t be coming back to earth with Jesus after the Tribulation. They will be the new saints in heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus will return to earth and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

    is there a payoff for them?

    The reason I posted an image of the rapture, is because as I understand it, they will be selected for special glorification, while others (the non-believers) will perish in fires or other divine retribution, while the “rapture bunnies”, (as they’re often derisively referred to) will ascend to Heaven to consort in the company of Jesus Christ Himself

    the illustrations of the event are pretty unambiguous

    there is a personal payoff when the rapture happens, and it isn’t just some vague, (as I understand it) place in Heaven, but they will be selected for divine grace, and *feel* actual ‘rapture’, (a kind of ecstasy of sorts) that lasts for a very long time, perhaps forever if the characterization of yours that they will dwell in Heaven as saints for eternity, is true. While all the non-believers and unconverted Jews will all perish in God’s wrathful judgment.

    No?

    Am I at least close? And if not, I would respectfully and gratefully appreciate being set straight, because what I’m describing is really what I’ve come to understand, albeit from a laypersons perspective.

    I admit that I didn’t know they would linger in Heaven while Jesus returned to the earth to rule. I thought they were all going to stay in Jesus’ company for the entire thousand years. In fact, I suspect that most of them believe just that, as I think you’re a hundred times more thoughtful and educated than most of the ones I’ve conversed with vis-a-vis this complex and daunting subject.

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    • Replies: @MInnesota Mary
    Rurik,

    As I stated before there are the premillenials, the post millenials, the Amillenials, and you can throw in the Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter Day Saints. There are differences in their beliefs of how the end times will be and what the end result will be.

    It is difficult to sort it all out as to the variations in the different belief systems. I don't have enough time or space here to go into it all, but I am Amillenial which means I reject the belief that Jesus will have a literal, thousand-year-long reign on earth. Jesus never disputed that Satan was Prince of this world. We know from the Book of Revelation that when war broke out in heaven, Lucifer and his angels were cast down to earth.

    I can't say enough good about David Currie's book. He explains it better than anyone. I've read it three or four times and will probably read it many more times before I depart this earth.
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  54. MarkinLA says:
    @MEexpert

    The last “just war” the US fought was against Hitler Germany.
     
    As I wrote in my post #7, the last just war was the American revolution war, for freedom, against Great Britain. Since then every war America has fought has been war of choice. The results of these wars have been death and destruction of innocent life and property.

    What about the War of 1812. Britain impressing American sailors was a slap in the face to American sovereignty.

    Read More
    • Replies: @MEexpert
    America was not threatened in anyway by this action. So the war was in no way in defense of the country. Hence an unjust war.

    Searching for the causes of war of 1812 I found this:

    In June 1812, the United States declared war against Great Britain in reaction to three issues: the British economic blockade of France, the induction of thousands of neutral American seamen into the British Royal Navy against their will, and the British support of hostile Indian tribes along the Great Lakes frontier.
     
    British economic blockade in no way threatened the United States.

    Induction of Americans into the British Navy, even if against their will, is not justification for war.

    British support of hostile Indian tribes. The United States does this all the time.

    No, the war of 1812 was not a just war.
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  55. woodNfish says:

    Are America’s Wars Just and Moral?

    Nope. Not since WWII. Trump is trying to put an end to our military adventurism, but traitors like McCain and the deep state are against him.

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  56. Sparkon says:

    Recent polls show over 70% of American believe in angels. I suggest that they are also willing to believe fairy tales like 9/11, because we put faith in our leaders, and we are one nation, under God, and all that.

    In a spiritual value system, faith trumps evidence.

    For the agnostic, it’s better to say “I don’t know” than it is to believe in nonsense, but that doesn’t necessarily mean throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There is much merit to The Golden Rule, and also in the rump of The Ten Commandments starting with the one about mom and dad.

    Really, that’s all we need.

    Belief in all the rest of the ancient mystic mumbo jumbo just empowers the witch doctors, and especially, the hidden hands pulling their strings.

    By now, even a lax scholar should have familiarized himself with the way Christianity was cobbled together in 325, by the First Council of Nicea under the Roman Emperor Constantine, from a hodge podge of ancient scripts, myths, and beliefs. The oldest extant bible is the Codex Sinaiticus, which shows evidence of numerous erasures, or scrapings, and editing, and even it was written some 350 years after the supposed life of the mystical man.

    But trying to reason with Christians about the historicity of the mythical man known today as Jesus is like arguing with my 7 year old niece, and insisting to her that there really is no Santa Claus.

    Until humanity can throw off the ancient superstitious religious beliefs, it will be plagued by warfare.

    When one witch doctor won’t do your bidding, there’s always another.

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  57. MEexpert says:
    @MarkinLA
    What about the War of 1812. Britain impressing American sailors was a slap in the face to American sovereignty.

    America was not threatened in anyway by this action. So the war was in no way in defense of the country. Hence an unjust war.

    Searching for the causes of war of 1812 I found this:

    In June 1812, the United States declared war against Great Britain in reaction to three issues: the British economic blockade of France, the induction of thousands of neutral American seamen into the British Royal Navy against their will, and the British support of hostile Indian tribes along the Great Lakes frontier.

    British economic blockade in no way threatened the United States.

    Induction of Americans into the British Navy, even if against their will, is not justification for war.

    British support of hostile Indian tribes. The United States does this all the time.

    No, the war of 1812 was not a just war.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    Induction of Americans into the British Navy, even if against their will, is not justification for war.

    Wars have been started for far less and nothing short of war was likely to stop the Brits from continuing to do it.
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  58. MarkinLA says:
    @MEexpert
    America was not threatened in anyway by this action. So the war was in no way in defense of the country. Hence an unjust war.

    Searching for the causes of war of 1812 I found this:

    In June 1812, the United States declared war against Great Britain in reaction to three issues: the British economic blockade of France, the induction of thousands of neutral American seamen into the British Royal Navy against their will, and the British support of hostile Indian tribes along the Great Lakes frontier.
     
    British economic blockade in no way threatened the United States.

    Induction of Americans into the British Navy, even if against their will, is not justification for war.

    British support of hostile Indian tribes. The United States does this all the time.

    No, the war of 1812 was not a just war.

    Induction of Americans into the British Navy, even if against their will, is not justification for war.

    Wars have been started for far less and nothing short of war was likely to stop the Brits from continuing to do it.

    Read More
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  59. @Rurik

    ...Premillenial Dispensationlists, Postmillenials, and Amillenials...

    His book on the end times is the best I have ever read
     

    I want you to know Minnesota Mary, that I very much respect your efforts here to educate and edify us all as to these esoteric and convoluted doctrines and arcane knowledge from the obscure lore.

    Most of the Christians I know would never venture beyond a trite and shallow discussion about these things, because quite frankly, that's all they know or care about. At least that's been my observation. So thank you and kudos for your tenacity and obvious erudition.

    And if I might, I'd prefer for you to paraphrase the book's salient points for us here on Unz, who don't all the time or wherewithal to read the actual book.


    These people believe that they will be raptured up to heaven with Jesus right before the 7 year tribulation. They won’t be coming back to earth with Jesus after the Tribulation. They will be the new saints in heaven. After the tribulation, Jesus will return to earth and rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years.
     
    is there a payoff for them?

    The reason I posted an image of the rapture, is because as I understand it, they will be selected for special glorification, while others (the non-believers) will perish in fires or other divine retribution, while the "rapture bunnies", (as they're often derisively referred to) will ascend to Heaven to consort in the company of Jesus Christ Himself

    the illustrations of the event are pretty unambiguous

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RkoA9trZlKE/TTRPPcbzp9I/AAAAAAAAAEQ/1qyMgbv05nc/s1600/At-the-rapture-jesus-17261138-300-408.jpg

    http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/26900000/rapture-jesus-26923179-636-503.jpg

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/images/theRapture/Jesus-is-coming-back-soon.jpg

    https://rapturewatcher.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/jesus-christ-introducing-raptured-saints-to-god.jpg

    there is a personal payoff when the rapture happens, and it isn't just some vague, (as I understand it) place in Heaven, but they will be selected for divine grace, and *feel* actual 'rapture', (a kind of ecstasy of sorts) that lasts for a very long time, perhaps forever if the characterization of yours that they will dwell in Heaven as saints for eternity, is true. While all the non-believers and unconverted Jews will all perish in God's wrathful judgment.

    No?

    Am I at least close? And if not, I would respectfully and gratefully appreciate being set straight, because what I'm describing is really what I've come to understand, albeit from a laypersons perspective.

    I admit that I didn't know they would linger in Heaven while Jesus returned to the earth to rule. I thought they were all going to stay in Jesus' company for the entire thousand years. In fact, I suspect that most of them believe just that, as I think you're a hundred times more thoughtful and educated than most of the ones I've conversed with vis-a-vis this complex and daunting subject.

    Rurik,

    As I stated before there are the premillenials, the post millenials, the Amillenials, and you can throw in the Jehovah’s Witnesses and Latter Day Saints. There are differences in their beliefs of how the end times will be and what the end result will be.

    It is difficult to sort it all out as to the variations in the different belief systems. I don’t have enough time or space here to go into it all, but I am Amillenial which means I reject the belief that Jesus will have a literal, thousand-year-long reign on earth. Jesus never disputed that Satan was Prince of this world. We know from the Book of Revelation that when war broke out in heaven, Lucifer and his angels were cast down to earth.

    I can’t say enough good about David Currie’s book. He explains it better than anyone. I’ve read it three or four times and will probably read it many more times before I depart this earth.

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