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Has Amnesty International Lost Its Way? Part 1
How Amnesty International’s attempt at a ‘balanced’ approach at the conflict turns into an apologetic for Israel’s aggression against Gaza.
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Amnesty International is among the premier human rights organizations in the world. Its pronouncements shape public opinion, while councils of state feel obliged if not to heed them at any rate to respond. A movement for justice aspiring to reach a broad public and inflect state policy can ill afford to ignore Amnesty if and when it goes astray. It is the contention of this monograph that Amnesty has indeed lost its way, and it is the intention of this monograph to document this proposition, in the hope that Amnesty will perform—or its grassroots membership will compel it to perform—a midcourse correction.

In recent years, Amnesty International has issued meticulously documented, legally unflinching human rights reports on the Israel-Palestine conflict, for example, Operation “Cast Lead”: 22 days of death and destruction[1]2009., a searing indictment of Israel’s 2008-9 assault on Gaza. But this has not always been the case. For many decades, this venerable human rights organization effectively gave Israel a free pass on its pervasive torture practices in the occupied Palestinian territories[2]Norman G. Finkelstein, Knowing Too Much: Why the American Jewish romance with Israel is coming to an end (New York: 2012), p. 97.. Judging by the reports it issued after Israel’s summer 2014 assault on Gaza, Operation Protective Edge, Amnesty is regressing to its earlier apologetics. For those who have come to rely on and cite Amnesty as a source of accurate human rights reportage, this development is troubling and deeply frustrating. The primary purpose of this monograph is not to account for Amnesty’s apparent backpedaling, although some speculations on this score will be ventured in the conclusion, but to thoroughly document it, focusing in particular on Amnesty’s comprehensive indictment of Hamas[3]Hamas is here used to denote all armed groups in Gaza., Unlawful and Deadly: Rocket and mortar attacks by Palestinian armed groups during the 2014 Gaza/Israel conflict[4]2015..

SPURIOUS BALANCE

Table 1 presents the raw data from which a human rights assessment of Operation Protective Edge (hereafter: OPE) necessarily begins[5]For background to OPE, see Norman G. Finkelstein, Method and Madness: The hidden story of Israel’s assaults on Gaza (New York: 2014)..

TABLE 1 Civilian Losses in Operation Protective Edge
Total fatalities (of whom children) Civilians (% of total fatalities) Combatants (% of total fatalities) Direct damage to civilian infrastructure (in dollars) Civilian homes destroyed/rendered uninhabitable
Israel 73 (1) 6** (8) 67 (92) 55,000,000[6]Most of the Israeli data in this monograph draws from State of Israel, The 2014 Gaza Conflict, 7 July-26 August 2014 (May 2015). Itreports that total compensation for direct damages to Israeli civilians will reach $40 million, while the state will spend an additiona $15 million to repair public infrastructure that was damaged (paras. 112, 223). 1***
Gaza* 2,200 (550) 1,560 (70)[7]The casualty figures and breakdowns for Gaza are based on UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), Fragmented Lives (March 2015). The major Gaza-based human rights organizations (Al Mezan, Palestinian Center for Human Rights) put the number of civilians killed at 1,600-1,700. Israel’s 2014 Gaza Conflict alleged that, of the 1,700 Gazan deaths it has thus fartabulated from a total of 2,125, 940 (44 percent) were Hamas “militants,” 760 (36 percent) were civilians, and 420 (20 percent) were “yet to be categorized.” It also states that “in all but a few rare instances, women, children under the age of 16, and the elderly were automatically categorized as ‘uninvolved’” in its calculations. Setting aside all the other absurdities in Israel’s bookkeeping, according to OCHA, the number of Gazan women and children killed—that is, not including any adult males—already totaled 850. (The one slight discrepancy is that OCHA reckoned a child as under 17 years of age.) The Israeli report faults OCHA for basing its combatant/civilian breakdown on “daily fatality lists issued by the Hamas-controlled Gaza Ministry of Health,” which, it continues, “do not identify whether the deceased was a militant.” It’s hard to figure how OCHA could have relied on the Ministry’s breakdown if the Ministry didn’t give a breakdown. See 2014 Gaza Conflict, p. 56n165; Annex—Palestinian Fatality Figures in the 2014 Gaza Conflict, paras. 9, 13, 26-27. 640 (30) 4,000,000,000[8]State of Palestine, The National Early Recovery and Reconstruction Plan for Gaza (October 2014), p. 9. 18,000****
  • * Gaza figures are rounded out. Throughout this monograph, larger numbers are similarly rounded out to the nearest ten, hundred or thousand.
  • ** One civilian was a Thai guest worker.
  • *** 11 others suffered some damage.
  • **** 38,000 others suffered some damage.

“On both sides,” Amnesty observes in Unlawful and Deadly, “civilians once again bore the brunt of the third full-scale war in less than six years.” Although arguably true[9]On the other hand, only eight percent of total Israeli fatalities were civilians., this statement obscures the yawning gap separating the magnitude of suffering inflicted on Gazan as compared to Israeli civilians[10]In the last report it released, “Strangling Necks”: Abductions, torture and summary killings of Palestinians by Hamas forces during the 2014 Gaza/Israel conflict (2015), Amnesty does briefly mention that, “The extent of the casualties and destruction in Gaza wrought by Israeli forces far exceeded those caused by Palestinian attacks on Israel, reflecting Israel’s far greater firepower, among other factors.”. It is hard to come up with a more palpable instance of a quantitative difference turning into a qualitative one than the single Israeli child versus the 550 Gazan children killed, and it doesn’t diminish the sanctity of every life to take note that, if the death of one Israeli child is terrible, then, on the same calculus, the child deaths in Gaza are 550 times as terrible. An international Medical Fact-Finding Mission, recruited by the Israeli branch of Physicians for Human Rights and comprised of eminent medical practitioners, concluded its report on OPE with this caveat: “While not wishing to devalue in any way the traumatic effects of the war on Israeli civilians, these pale in comparison with the consequences of the massive destruction wreaked on Gaza.”[11]Jutta Bachmann et al., Gaza 2014: Findings of an independent medical fact-finding mission(2015), p. 101. (Hereafter: Medical Fact-Finding Mission) Even UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, who in the past has disgraced his office with apologetics on Israel’s behalf[12]Finkelstein, Method, pp. 101-20., carefully distinguished between Israel’s lethal attacks on UN facilities during OPE, which “I deplore,” and Hamas’s misuse of UN facilities, about which “I am dismayed.”[13]Ban Ki-moon’s remarks are appended to the summary of the final report of a UN Board of Inquiry he commissioned to investigate “certain incidents that occurred in the Gaza Strip between 8 July 2014 and 26 August 2014.” (Hereafter: UN Board of Inquiry) One searches in vain for a comparable acknowledgment or nuance by Amnesty.

In keeping with its pretense of evenhandedness, Amnesty conveys the impression that Israel and Hamas were equally guilty of breaching the laws of war. It issued a pair of postwar reports documenting Israel’s crimes and a pair of reports documenting Hamas’s crimes (four altogether), while, amazingly, it devoted, all told, many more pages to indicting Hamas (107) than Israel (78)[14]In addition to Unlawful and Deadly and “Strangling Necks,” Amnesty issued Families under the Rubble: Israeli attacks on inhabited homes (2014), and “Nothing Is Immune”: Israel’s destruction of landmark buildings in Gaza (2014). It bears noting that these four reports were released during the critical window of opportunity between the end of OPE and the issuance of the UN Human Rights Council report on OPE in June 2015. Whatever Amnesty releases after the UN report will have little or no political impact. As it happens, the UN Report did make extensive use of Amnesty’s quartet of publications, a topic to which this writer will return in a future monograph.. In Operation “Cast Lead,” Israel bore the brunt of Amnesty’s indictment (60 versus 13 pages), making this earlier report’s relative space allocations more, if still far from fully, commensurate with the death and destruction inflicted by each side[15]A precise juxtaposition casts an even darker shadow on Amnesty’s space allocations: in absolute numbers, the scale of civilian death and destruction inflicted by Israel during Protective Edge was much more massive than during Cast Lead, whereas in the case of Hamas it was roughly the same.. The introduction to each of its postwar reports on OPE methodically balances the distribution of guilt. As if that weren’t problematic enough, Unlawful and Deadlydetails the death of the single Israeli child killed by a Hamas attack across more than two pages. Were it truly committed to effecting—as against affecting—balance, shouldn’t Amnesty have devoted 1,100 pages to the children in Gaza who were killed? Amnesty even suggests that Hamas was the more manifestly culpable party to the conflict. Thus, Unlawful and Deadly’s conclusion unequivocally deplores Hamas’s “flagrant disregard for international humanitarian law,” whereas one of Amnesty’s reciprocal reports, Families under the Rubble: Israeli attacks on inhabited homes, cautiously concludes that the destruction wrought—18,000 Gazan homes were destroyed or rendered uninhabitable, leaving 110,000 people homeless—“raise[s] difficult questions for the Israeli government which they have so far failed to answer.[16]On the other hand, “Strangling Necks” does categorically state, “Israeli military forces committed war crimes and other grave violations of international law during Operation Protective Edge.” Human Rights Watch (HRW) has also been much quicker to condemn Hamas than Israel. “It’s obviously easier to denounce as a war crime, say, Hamas’s efforts to shoot rockets into civilian areas,” HRW executive director Kenneth Roth commented during OPE. “That’s, you know, blatantly obvious. It doesn’t take a huge investigation to figure that one out. Israel, it does take more of an investigation” (http://m.democracynow.org/stories/9979).” It is, of course, conceivable that Hamas committed as many war crimes as Israel, if not more, during OPE, but, prima facie, that would be a most anomalous conclusion. In both absolute and relative terms, the scales of guilt appear to tilt heavily to the Israeli side: Hamas killed 73 Israelis of whom only 8 percent were civilians, whereas Israel killed 2,200 Gazans of whom fully 70 percent were civilians; the damage inflicted on Gaza’s civilian infrastructure ($4 billion) exceeded by a factor of 70 the damage inflicted on Israel’s infrastructure ($55 million), while the ratio of civilian dwellings destroyed by Israel versus Hamas stood at 18,000:1. The intriguing question is, how does Amnesty manage to turn this wildly imbalanced balance sheet into a “balanced” indictment of both parties to the conflict?

[1] 2009.

[2] Norman G. Finkelstein, Knowing Too Much: Why the American Jewish romance with Israel is coming to an end (New York: 2012), p. 97.

[3] Hamas is here used to denote all armed groups in Gaza.

[4] 2015.

[5] For background to OPE, see Norman G. Finkelstein, Method and Madness: The hidden story of Israel’s assaults on Gaza (New York: 2014).

[6] Most of the Israeli data in this monograph draws from State of Israel, The 2014 Gaza Conflict, 7 July-26 August 2014 (May 2015). Itreports that total compensation for direct damages to Israeli civilians will reach $40 million, while the state will spend an additiona $15 million to repair public infrastructure that was damaged (paras. 112, 223).

[7] The casualty figures and breakdowns for Gaza are based on UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), Fragmented Lives (March 2015). The major Gaza-based human rights organizations (Al Mezan, Palestinian Center for Human Rights) put the number of civilians killed at 1,600-1,700. Israel’s 2014 Gaza Conflict alleged that, of the 1,700 Gazan deaths it has thus fartabulated from a total of 2,125, 940 (44 percent) were Hamas “militants,” 760 (36 percent) were civilians, and 420 (20 percent) were “yet to be categorized.” It also states that “in all but a few rare instances, women, children under the age of 16, and the elderly were automatically categorized as ‘uninvolved’” in its calculations. Setting aside all the other absurdities in Israel’s bookkeeping, according to OCHA, the number of Gazan women and children killed—that is, not including any adult males—already totaled 850. (The one slight discrepancy is that OCHA reckoned a child as under 17 years of age.) The Israeli report faults OCHA for basing its combatant/civilian breakdown on “daily fatality lists issued by the Hamas-controlled Gaza Ministry of Health,” which, it continues, “do not identify whether the deceased was a militant.” It’s hard to figure how OCHA could have relied on the Ministry’s breakdown if the Ministry didn’t give a breakdown. See 2014 Gaza Conflict, p. 56n165; Annex—Palestinian Fatality Figures in the 2014 Gaza Conflict, paras. 9, 13, 26-27.

[8] State of Palestine, The National Early Recovery and Reconstruction Plan for Gaza (October 2014), p. 9.

[9] On the other hand, only eight percent of total Israeli fatalities were civilians.

[10] In the last report it released, “Strangling Necks”: Abductions, torture and summary killings of Palestinians by Hamas forces during the 2014 Gaza/Israel conflict (2015), Amnesty does briefly mention that, “The extent of the casualties and destruction in Gaza wrought by Israeli forces far exceeded those caused by Palestinian attacks on Israel, reflecting Israel’s far greater firepower, among other factors.”

[11] Jutta Bachmann et al., Gaza 2014: Findings of an independent medical fact-finding mission(2015), p. 101. (Hereafter: Medical Fact-Finding Mission)

[12] Finkelstein, Method, pp. 101-20.

[13] Ban Ki-moon’s remarks are appended to the summary of the final report of a UN Board of Inquiry he commissioned to investigate “certain incidents that occurred in the Gaza Strip between 8 July 2014 and 26 August 2014.” (Hereafter: UN Board of Inquiry)

[14] In addition to Unlawful and Deadly and “Strangling Necks,” Amnesty issued Families under the Rubble: Israeli attacks on inhabited homes (2014), and “Nothing Is Immune”: Israel’s destruction of landmark buildings in Gaza (2014). It bears noting that these four reports were released during the critical window of opportunity between the end of OPE and the issuance of the UN Human Rights Council report on OPE in June 2015. Whatever Amnesty releases after the UN report will have little or no political impact. As it happens, the UN Report did make extensive use of Amnesty’s quartet of publications, a topic to which this writer will return in a future monograph.

[15] A precise juxtaposition casts an even darker shadow on Amnesty’s space allocations: in absolute numbers, the scale of civilian death and destruction inflicted by Israel during Protective Edge was much more massive than during Cast Lead, whereas in the case of Hamas it was roughly the same.

[16] On the other hand, “Strangling Necks” does categorically state, “Israeli military forces committed war crimes and other grave violations of international law during Operation Protective Edge.” Human Rights Watch (HRW) has also been much quicker to condemn Hamas than Israel. “It’s obviously easier to denounce as a war crime, say, Hamas’s efforts to shoot rockets into civilian areas,” HRW executive director Kenneth Roth commented during OPE. “That’s, you know, blatantly obvious. It doesn’t take a huge investigation to figure that one out. Israel, it does take more of an investigation” (http://m.democracynow.org/stories/9979).

(Republished from Byline.com by permission of author or representative)
 
    []
  1. What a relief to know that Norman Finkelstein still lives, breathes, and writes. There may be hope for the world after all.

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  2. joe webb says:

    Finkelstein , like Chomsky, is a zionist.

    I attended a talk by Finkelstein at Stanford University several years ago. He went into a Jewish lawyer meta-legalize razzle-dazzle on how 1948 was legal while 1967 was illegal. I did not want to rain on their parade (Arab students) but should have in retrospect. Of course, I have learned since that Arabs are pretty dumb, like around 85 IQ in general for the various Arab countries, and of course, the Stanford cohort must have been at least 100….. and I waited in vain for them to hoot the Jew zionist out of town….

    Still, he is a good looking aryan Jew and must be credited with enough smarts to do his chamelion act and get away with it. I especially liked his remarks about his mother, a putative holocaust survivor…(any jew in Europe alive after the war is legally a holocaust survivor). Finkelstein , in his Holocaust Industry I think, quotes Mom, “With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?” Amen to that.

    Sill, at the personal level, he is all right.

    Joe Webb

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    • Replies: @Seraphim
    @“With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?”

    The late French writer Roger Peyrefitte, in his book 'The Jews' (1971), dedicated to combating anti-semitism by 'demonstrating' that anyone who was counting in France was a Jew, tells a very funny story happening immediately after the end of the war.

    "I (it is a fictional Romanian Jew that talks) was in Monmartre one evening in a cabaret where there were numerous Jews. Of all the survivors, Jews were the ones who needed diversion most. Martini, the chansonnier, came on stage, looked the crowd over slowly and said, "Well then, those crematoriums must have been incubators!" I know enough that French wit never gives up its rights, but I considered it rather bitter to greet our return that way... What! Martini is a Catalonian Jewish name of the thirteenth century? Well, that changes everything. Then that shocking remark becomes Jewish humour. But the author should have told it to us in Yiddish".
    Here you go.

    , @annamaria
    Norman provided the readers with concrete facts; your post did not address any of the points of his report. Willingly or not, your post shouts "shoot the messenger."
  3. Yevardian says:

    Who else was extremely surprised to see Norman Finkelstein appearing here at the Unz Review? I imagine this will be the last straw for many of Finkelstein’s former admirers among the new-left.

    Congratulations to Ron Unz on Norman’s inclusion, as they seem radically opposed on nearly every domestic issue.

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  4. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Great Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    The head of Amnesty International USA is a protégée of the fat-ankled hairy violent psychopath bulldyke Hillary Clinton.

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  5. alexander says:

    Dear Dr. Finkelstein ,

    Perhaps the amnesty report is a “last ditch “attempt to forestall the conclusion that most of us reached in watching the carnage in Gaza last summer .

    That we are witnessing the wholesale extermination of the Palestinian people and the Genocide of Palestine.

    The notion of” Hamas” and all the ideological baggage associated with fighting it(as the good fight )…has dissolved into the certainty of Israels cruel but logical overarching calculus….

    .The only real solution to the “Right of Return”for Palestinian refugees and its eternal “demographic threat” is “the final solution.”……Extermination !

    Look at it as bluntly as you can , Dr Finkelstein (as I have), and see if the demographic threat that ALL dispossessed Palestinians and their offspring represent isn’t the real key to the slaughter of civilians , that we bore witness to in Gaza.

    Consider the logic of it .

    If the ultimate goal of Israel is the guaranteed self determination of the Jewish people within a sovereign and democratic state….then even the “unborn seeds” of the dispossessed Palestinians carry the unalterable “right of return” and the future of an upended demographic.

    That ‘right of return” runs with the people and cannot be washed away regardless if it is Hamas in power, Islamic jihad, Fatah, Isis or anyone else……

    It doesn’t matter !

    ” Operation Protective Edge” while seeking to portray itself as an extension of the “Heroic War on Terror”against nasty “Hamas” , is really just the culling of the Palestinian “herd” into a permanent minority within the “Greater Israel” project.

    Israel will cull, and provide whatever pretexts it needs ,to KEEP culling until an insured Jewish demographic majority is guaranteed !

    When those facts present themselves within the Amnesty report…you know they will have done their job….all other statistics , data, and war crimes allegations, are just footnotes to the unfolding tragedy that is… The Holocaust of Palestine .

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  6. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Great Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    Niether Finklestien nor Chomsky support the right of return for Palestinians. That’s a..ok…with me. However, Chomsky supports an open borders post-1965 immigration policy with the intent of demographic warfare against The Historic Native Born White American Majority. Noam Chomsky is our mortal enemy…best friend that MEGA CEO Parasite Jack Welch could ever have.

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  7. Seraphim says:
    @joe webb
    Finkelstein , like Chomsky, is a zionist.

    I attended a talk by Finkelstein at Stanford University several years ago. He went into a Jewish lawyer meta-legalize razzle-dazzle on how 1948 was legal while 1967 was illegal. I did not want to rain on their parade (Arab students) but should have in retrospect. Of course, I have learned since that Arabs are pretty dumb, like around 85 IQ in general for the various Arab countries, and of course, the Stanford cohort must have been at least 100..... and I waited in vain for them to hoot the Jew zionist out of town....

    Still, he is a good looking aryan Jew and must be credited with enough smarts to do his chamelion act and get away with it. I especially liked his remarks about his mother, a putative holocaust survivor...(any jew in Europe alive after the war is legally a holocaust survivor). Finkelstein , in his Holocaust Industry I think, quotes Mom, "With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?" Amen to that.

    Sill, at the personal level, he is all right.

    Joe Webb

    @“With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?”

    The late French writer Roger Peyrefitte, in his book ‘The Jews’ (1971), dedicated to combating anti-semitism by ‘demonstrating’ that anyone who was counting in France was a Jew, tells a very funny story happening immediately after the end of the war.

    “I (it is a fictional Romanian Jew that talks) was in Monmartre one evening in a cabaret where there were numerous Jews. Of all the survivors, Jews were the ones who needed diversion most. Martini, the chansonnier, came on stage, looked the crowd over slowly and said, “Well then, those crematoriums must have been incubators!” I know enough that French wit never gives up its rights, but I considered it rather bitter to greet our return that way… What! Martini is a Catalonian Jewish name of the thirteenth century? Well, that changes everything. Then that shocking remark becomes Jewish humour. But the author should have told it to us in Yiddish”.
    Here you go.

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    • Replies: @joe webb
    the dinner? cabaret in Monmartre: did the Jews present ask to please pass the salt and pepper, and did they have the "is it good for the Jews?" line then?

    Controlling the opposition may be unfair to Finkelstein, but it is close. He is a zionist, and it is as simple as that. However, I have long since given up on criticizing jews for being jews. They have, from an evolutionary/biological position, every right to lie, cheat, and steal for their people. And we have every duty to stop them, for our people. They have a right to a national home, and so do we, and every other race. Problem for them is that they stole their country...that does not work these days. Israel is the best thing that ever happened for the cause of anti-semitism. Hallelujah.

    Blair Mountain has it right. By the way, on about page 39 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, I discovered to my delight about ten years ago, C. states his zionist credentials. I blew the whistle on him, one of the first I believe to do so amongst the leftie groupies...I of course was never a groupie, but was somewhat leftish....a testament to family script, Vietnam, civil rights movement, and mostly, my own surplus altruism, now, thank god, redirected to my own people.

    I do not recall if I advertised my Uncle Sam routine of a few years ago here. Search for Uncle Sam and Joe Webb....get some chuckles. This was ca. 2004 in SF Bay Area.


    The Jew talks and talks and talks...all jewish lawyers. Except some of us pierce the talmudic muck with our skewers.

    By the way, going back to Shamir piece....these Jewish communists continue the Class argument and racial equality argument, in a desperate attempt to save themselves from a race discourse, and the rest of it. The Sacker may actually be a jew. I see on his website that he resides on Synagogue Street, somewhere in Russia I guess. Communism was largely a race war...jews agin goys

    Joe Webb
  8. geokat62 says:

    I had the pleasure of attending a conference that took place last year in which Prof. Finkelstein was the guest speaker. The conference was entitled Gaza and Egypt Intertwined and since the audience was permitted to ask questions at the end of the conference, I put the following question to Prof. Finkelstein:

    I just wanted to get a better understanding about your refusal to support the BDS movement. I believe it all turns on which solution is more viable – the 2SS or 1SS. At a recent book tour you indicated that the 2SS is twice as dead as the 1SS. My question is a simple one: How many more cycles of violence (commonly referred to as “mowing the lawn”) must the Palestinians endure before you are prepared to embrace BDS. What the Palestinians need more of is people of your stature and influence to breathe life into the BDS movement, which will finally lead to a liberated Palestine.

    Here is how Prof. Finkelstein responded (it is not verbatim):

    But what’s your (BDS movement) stance on Israel? They say they don’t take a stance on Israel…
    So if you say you want the enforcement of international law, you can’t then say we take no position on Israel. That’s the law, Israel is a state. If there’s an answer to that, I’m curious to hear it.. but I have not heard it so far…

    But when I hear people from BDS, there’s no discussion about the politics, it’s just: This is what we want! It’s like a child having a rattle and the rattle says “One State.” And you keep shaking the rattle. Where is the political force supporting One State? There are 195 countries or so now in the UN. Is there one state in the world that currently supports One State in Palestine? They all support two states. Is there a single human rights organization that supports One State? There’s no political support for it in the world! So even if it is in principle correct, … that is not what political people do. They don’t hold to political principles at the expense of assessing political forces – what’s possible, what’s not possible. Because at the end of the day, isn’t the goal to improve people’s lives, to make the situation better… or do you want to just sit here in the comfort of the West and hug your political principles while the suffering continues over there? That doesn’t make sense to me… and that’s my problem with the BDS. (emphasis added)

    I didn’t get the opportunity to respond to his response but if I had, I would have simply said that your response sounded like a paean to political expediency! While it’s true there is little support for the 1SS today, this doesn’t mean it will always remain so. How politically viable did a liberated South Africa, a Jewish Homeland, an independent America, the abolition of slavery appear in the early stages of their development?

    But what you fail to recognizeis is something the great Nelson Mandela once said: “It always seems impossible until its done.”

    That’s why I still call upon you to do the right thing and endorse BDS.

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  9. Tom_R says:

    AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL—HOW MANY JEWISH DONORS AND JEWISH OFFICIALS?

    Welcome to unz.com, Dr. Finkelstein. And thanks for the interesting article.

    The reason for the pro-Israel bias might be due to the fact that, out of fear of being criticized by Amnesty International, and the powerful impact such criticism could have on the Jewish lobby and Israel, Jewish Oligarchs might have started donating to Amnesty International in a big way to muzzle it. This is a very common Jewish tactic—to attack, muzzle, threaten, bribe, or buy out the opposition.

    In fact, the head of its US branch is Jewish herself.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/amnesty-intl-collapse-new-head-is-former-state-dept-official-who-rationalized-iran-sanctions-gaza-onslaught

    Did the Oligarchs demand a Judaist be appointed to lead the organization in exchange for the donations? Quite possible.

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  10. I think someone might congratulate the IDF on the remarkably modest ratio of civilians killed to physical destruction. (Bibi or a minister has probably done that I guess). So what’s NF’s – or anyone else’s answer to a criminal gang in charge of a large partially supportive family compound that uses that compound to launch potentially and sometimes actually lethal rocket attacks on one’s law abiding workers and families?

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    • Replies: @geokat62

    So what’s NF’s – or anyone else’s answer...
     
    Here's NF's answer:

    AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, IT IS A VERY SIMPLE CONCEPT. PERSON “A” IS GRAPPLING AND SUFFOCATING (SUFFOCATING IS A FANCY WORD FOR CHOKING)… JAMES. JAMES MANAGES, IN THE COURSE OF BEING SUFFOCATED, TO SCRATCH HIM A LITTLE. HE’S NOW ENRAGED. HE IS FURIOUS AT THE SCRATCHES, AND SO BEYOND SUFFOCATING HIM HE STARTS TO BEAT HIM AND BEAT HIM AND HE SAYS “IT’S MY RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE. HE SCRATCHED ME. IT’S MY RIGHT OF SELF DEFENSE.” SOME PEOPLE SAID HE HAS NO CHOICE. JAMES IS SCRATCHING HIM. ANYONE WITH COMMON SENSE AND DECENCY KNOWS FULL WELL THAT HE HAS A CHOICE. IF HE DOESN’T WANT JAMES TO SCRATCH HIM, ALL HE HAS TO DO IS TO STOP SUFFOCATING JAMES.

    IF ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT TO BE THE SUBJECT OF OCCASIONAL SCRATCHES, WHICH IS ALL THAT THESE ROCKET ATTACKS COME TO, IT HAS A VERY SIMPLE OPTION. IT COULD STOP SUFFOCATING THE PALESTINIANS, IT COULD PACK UP ITS BAGS AND RETURN TO ITS STATE. THE BORDERS UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IT CAN FINALLY LET THE PALESTINIANS LIVE IN PEACE.
     
    , @silviosilver

    I think someone might congratulate the IDF on the remarkably modest ratio of civilians killed to physical destruction.
     
    An excellent point. By my calculation Israel's ratio of civilians killed to homes destroyed is 1:11.5. The Palestinian ratio is a horrific 6:1. If Palestinians destroyed as many Israeli homes as Israelis did Palestinian, there would have been 108,000 dead Israeli civilians. Clearly Bibi's more than just a great humanitarian; he's a veritable Peace Prize. I wonder how the supporters of terrorism are going to try and spin their way out of this one.
  11. Flower says:

    What has not been discussed is Palestinian issue in regards to other Arab nations. What I mean by this is that so many Arab countries are angry at the Jews ostensibly because of the Palestine issue, yet I have yet to hear about any Arab country actually HELPING the Palestinian people. There are currently some 100k Somalians in Minneapolis, having been allowed to immigrate into the US, supposedly to try and free those Somalians from further distress in their own country. Very white of us, I’d say. Yet, how many Arab countries have opened their borders to even 1 Palestinian? Why doesn’t, say, filthy rich Saudi Arabia declare love and kisses to the Palestinians and let them immigrate into the Saudi lands? Or filthy richer Qatar, or filthier rich Oman or Jordan or the Arab Emirates?

    Really, it seems like the only thing the Arab world is concerned about Palestine and Palestinians is that it continue to be the pivot man for Arabs to hate Jews. Not that Arabs have ever needed much of an excuse, or vice versa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Technomad
    One reason is that most if not all Arab countries are at carrying capacity, or over it, already. They only have so much arable land, and so much water.

    Another reason is that they don't see why they should have to pay the piper for what Israel did and does.

    The third reason...considering that some folks I could name spent two thousand years saying "Next year in Jerusalem!" is it that hard to believe that the Palestinians might be just as devoted to justice for themselves as the others were to get "their homeland" back?
    , @Whatever
    Take it from me you are talking out of your @$$. about 6 million Palestinians live in the Arab world. Next time please check before you say whatever comes to your head.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians
  12. J says:

    Dr Finkelstein needs to experience the Amira Hass learning moment to return to normalcy. The antiZionist Dr Amira Hass was asked to stop her lecture and was brutally kicked out of Ramallah’s Birzeit University because the students felt that she – an Israeli Jew – however loyal and dedicated to the Palestinian case, intruded in their “safe space”. Dr Finkelstein should be mentally prepared to be publicly rejected and humiliated by his adored Arabs, as Dr Hass was.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Could you give a commentary on the following? - "It is hard to come up with a more palpable instance of a quantitative difference turning into a qualitative one than the single Israeli child versus the 550 Gazan children killed, and it doesn’t diminish the sanctity of every life to take note that, if the death of one Israeli child is terrible, then, on the same calculus, the child deaths in Gaza are 550 times as terrible."
    How is your mental health re the image of 550 children killed by the Israelis? Do you really believe that each and every Israeli is a paragon of nobility and intelligence or your ethnic pride is too sensitive to ponder on that question?
  13. Biff says:

    The intriguing question is, how does Amnesty manage to turn this wildly imbalanced balance sheet into a “balanced” indictment of both parties to the conflict?

    Politics. One plus one equals three, and it’s as old as mankind, like a species indicator.

    Read More
  14. joe webb says:
    @Seraphim
    @“With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?”

    The late French writer Roger Peyrefitte, in his book 'The Jews' (1971), dedicated to combating anti-semitism by 'demonstrating' that anyone who was counting in France was a Jew, tells a very funny story happening immediately after the end of the war.

    "I (it is a fictional Romanian Jew that talks) was in Monmartre one evening in a cabaret where there were numerous Jews. Of all the survivors, Jews were the ones who needed diversion most. Martini, the chansonnier, came on stage, looked the crowd over slowly and said, "Well then, those crematoriums must have been incubators!" I know enough that French wit never gives up its rights, but I considered it rather bitter to greet our return that way... What! Martini is a Catalonian Jewish name of the thirteenth century? Well, that changes everything. Then that shocking remark becomes Jewish humour. But the author should have told it to us in Yiddish".
    Here you go.

    the dinner? cabaret in Monmartre: did the Jews present ask to please pass the salt and pepper, and did they have the “is it good for the Jews?” line then?

    Controlling the opposition may be unfair to Finkelstein, but it is close. He is a zionist, and it is as simple as that. However, I have long since given up on criticizing jews for being jews. They have, from an evolutionary/biological position, every right to lie, cheat, and steal for their people. And we have every duty to stop them, for our people. They have a right to a national home, and so do we, and every other race. Problem for them is that they stole their country…that does not work these days. Israel is the best thing that ever happened for the cause of anti-semitism. Hallelujah.

    Blair Mountain has it right. By the way, on about page 39 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, I discovered to my delight about ten years ago, C. states his zionist credentials. I blew the whistle on him, one of the first I believe to do so amongst the leftie groupies…I of course was never a groupie, but was somewhat leftish….a testament to family script, Vietnam, civil rights movement, and mostly, my own surplus altruism, now, thank god, redirected to my own people.

    I do not recall if I advertised my Uncle Sam routine of a few years ago here. Search for Uncle Sam and Joe Webb….get some chuckles. This was ca. 2004 in SF Bay Area.

    The Jew talks and talks and talks…all jewish lawyers. Except some of us pierce the talmudic muck with our skewers.

    By the way, going back to Shamir piece….these Jewish communists continue the Class argument and racial equality argument, in a desperate attempt to save themselves from a race discourse, and the rest of it. The Sacker may actually be a jew. I see on his website that he resides on Synagogue Street, somewhere in Russia I guess. Communism was largely a race war…jews agin goys

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    @page 39 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle

    I personally had no doubt about that and I suspected that all his output was to divert attention from the real thing. I never had the patience to go through all his ravings, partly because I smelled the rat. Thank you to draw my attention to his "reluctant" confession. (In the version that I consulted is at page 40).
    , @silviosilver
    Joe, I'm curious: out of all the commentary you've egested over the years, what percentage of it would you estimate has actually helped your cause? Have you cracked a the whole-number barrier yet?
  15. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Great Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    Both Chomsky and Finkelstien support a Racial National Origins Policy for the Jewish State of Israel. Noam Chomsky wages hyper-ethnic Jewish warfare against The Historic Native Born White American Christian Majority. If anyone has any doubts about this…they should go read the extensive interview with Noam Chomsky in the NYT three months ago. Here is my question:why hasn’t Steve Sailer made a post about this interview.

    Noam Chomsky…and possibly Norman Finkelstien…are Jewish racists….This shouldn’t even be a debatable point.

    Read More
  16. geokat62 says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I think someone might congratulate the IDF on the remarkably modest ratio of civilians killed to physical destruction. (Bibi or a minister has probably done that I guess). So what's NF's - or anyone else's answer to a criminal gang in charge of a large partially supportive family compound that uses that compound to launch potentially and sometimes actually lethal rocket attacks on one's law abiding workers and families?

    So what’s NF’s – or anyone else’s answer…

    Here’s NF’s answer:

    AS A PRACTICAL MATTER, IT IS A VERY SIMPLE CONCEPT. PERSON “A” IS GRAPPLING AND SUFFOCATING (SUFFOCATING IS A FANCY WORD FOR CHOKING)… JAMES. JAMES MANAGES, IN THE COURSE OF BEING SUFFOCATED, TO SCRATCH HIM A LITTLE. HE’S NOW ENRAGED. HE IS FURIOUS AT THE SCRATCHES, AND SO BEYOND SUFFOCATING HIM HE STARTS TO BEAT HIM AND BEAT HIM AND HE SAYS “IT’S MY RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE. HE SCRATCHED ME. IT’S MY RIGHT OF SELF DEFENSE.” SOME PEOPLE SAID HE HAS NO CHOICE. JAMES IS SCRATCHING HIM. ANYONE WITH COMMON SENSE AND DECENCY KNOWS FULL WELL THAT HE HAS A CHOICE. IF HE DOESN’T WANT JAMES TO SCRATCH HIM, ALL HE HAS TO DO IS TO STOP SUFFOCATING JAMES.

    IF ISRAEL DOES NOT WANT TO BE THE SUBJECT OF OCCASIONAL SCRATCHES, WHICH IS ALL THAT THESE ROCKET ATTACKS COME TO, IT HAS A VERY SIMPLE OPTION. IT COULD STOP SUFFOCATING THE PALESTINIANS, IT COULD PACK UP ITS BAGS AND RETURN TO ITS STATE. THE BORDERS UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IT CAN FINALLY LET THE PALESTINIANS LIVE IN PEACE.

    Read More
  17. The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.

    If Mr. Finkelstein is really so concerned about the welfare of the Palestinians, he should try to organize their mass emigration from our Holy Soil so we would not be forced to harm them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.
     
    What if the Germans had their own Torah that made it clear that any nation that made war on the German people was destined for extermination and had no human rights? Would that make it right?

    Judea Declares War on Germany - 1933 Newspaper headline.

    http://guardian.150m.com/jews/jews-declare-war.htm
    , @Tom_R
    SOME FACTS ABOUT THE FORGERY CALLED THE TORAH ONE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE RELYING ON IT.


    You said:

    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.

     

    The Torah (OT) is a "forgery" (See the book: "Forgery of the Old Testament" by Joseph McCabe) and "spurious" (--Thomas Paine). That is obvious from book 1, page 1. The Earth is not 6000 years old. Cultures (unknown to the scribes) flourished much before. Written records and archeological evidence using carbon dating show man's presence tens of thousands of years ago, probably over a 100,000 years ago. A million people cannot live in a vast desert (without water or food) in a hostile nation for 40 years---and leave no trace.

    Moshe (an Egyptian, therefore African and Black) never existed. His story is copied from the older African myth of Mises. Exile and Exodus never happened. For eg., as stated in "Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho" (by Prof. Ze'ev Herzog of the Dept. of Archaeology, Tel Aviv University):

    "This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel...."

    See:

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm
    http://www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/False_Testament_(Harpers).htm

    About who fabricated the Torah, see the "Documentary Hypothesis" on wikipedia.

    The scribes who fabricated the Torah (OT) were black criminals or "human animals" (--Hitchens) who lied about God and then made up self-serving lies that they are "God's Chosen."

    It is sad to see anybody rely on the bogus "Torah" in this day and age.
  18. geokat62 says:
    @Greasy William
    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.

    If Mr. Finkelstein is really so concerned about the welfare of the Palestinians, he should try to organize their mass emigration from our Holy Soil so we would not be forced to harm them.

    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.

    What if the Germans had their own Torah that made it clear that any nation that made war on the German people was destined for extermination and had no human rights? Would that make it right?

    Judea Declares War on Germany – 1933 Newspaper headline.

    http://guardian.150m.com/jews/jews-declare-war.htm

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    What if the Germans had their own Torah that made it clear that any nation that made war on the German people was destined for extermination and had no human rights? Would that make it right?
     
    Of course not.
    , @Bill Jones
    Here, have a graphic

    https://terragermania.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dailyexpress_judea_declares_war_on_germany.gif?w=300&h=212
  19. MQ says:

    Wow, the anti-semites are really out on this thread.

    Finkelstein , in his Holocaust Industry I think, quotes Mom, “With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?” Amen to that.

    My grandfather (born in Poland around 1900) had seven siblings, he was the only one who survived the war. My mother grew up here with no paternal uncles, aunts, or cousins. So those were a few of the people who got killed.

    Of course after looking at your comment 14 I see that your view is that no matter how many Jews Hitler killed, he didn’t get enough.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    You forgot that the topic of this discussion is the Israelis' slaughter of Palestinians.
    The nazis committed horrible atrocities against Jews, Slavs, and Gypsies. But that was then. Today Israelis commit atrocities against the native population of the Middle East. The former Soviets from Moldova and Central Asia and Ukraine claim the Palestinian land as their own and this ethnocentric claim is based mendaciously on the ancient myths and insane ideas of romanticized German Jews (Jabotinsky and Herzl). The Israelis have been reenacting Holocaust in Palestine towards the native population since 1948. When people today think about the word Holocaust, they think about native Palestinians and about the cruelty and ethnic arrogance of Jews.
    , @silviosilver

    Wow, the anti-semites are really out on this thread.
     
    Yeah, it was a lucky save. Finkelstein's article was pretty damning, but fortunately anti-semitism came to the rescue and rendered everything Finkelstein said irrelevant.
    , @joe webb
    typical jewish logic and hatred. "Of course after looking at your comment 14 I see that your view is that no matter how many Jews Hitler killed, he didn’t get enough."

    I said that? Jew lawyer again. Maybe you did not get the jewish humor of the Fink's mother.

    As for the holocaust, I don't believe it was anyway near the shrieking 6 million. Lots of jews were murdered and also killed as partizans. Whena people gets clobbered there is a reason for it. Most reasons are bad reasons, but in the case of the Jews, they are the constant haters of all things Christian and White. They will get wiped out sooner or later, if not by us, then by the Chinese.

    Auschwitz was claimed by the Jewish dominated communist party of Poland ca. 1946 to have murdered some 9 million jews. Or was it 14 million? the official number now is down well under one million including gentiles, who died either thru murder or illness. When you put the total number of 50 or so million deaths in the war, the whole jewish whining is just a fart in the wind.

    My advice to Jews is this: wanna stay alive? join the white race against the coloreds. It is that simple. We will forgive you your manifold and manifest sins against Whites if you do so.
    Of course, you will not do this, you instead will yammer on about anti-semites until the words stick in your throats due to violent acts. I am an anti-semite and proud of it....that I had the sense to awaken from my philo-semitism. Jews are nothing but pure Enemy of Whites, and actually of everybody else as well. They are haters first and last.


    Joe Webb
  20. Technomad says:
    @Flower
    What has not been discussed is Palestinian issue in regards to other Arab nations. What I mean by this is that so many Arab countries are angry at the Jews ostensibly because of the Palestine issue, yet I have yet to hear about any Arab country actually HELPING the Palestinian people. There are currently some 100k Somalians in Minneapolis, having been allowed to immigrate into the US, supposedly to try and free those Somalians from further distress in their own country. Very white of us, I'd say. Yet, how many Arab countries have opened their borders to even 1 Palestinian? Why doesn't, say, filthy rich Saudi Arabia declare love and kisses to the Palestinians and let them immigrate into the Saudi lands? Or filthy richer Qatar, or filthier rich Oman or Jordan or the Arab Emirates?

    Really, it seems like the only thing the Arab world is concerned about Palestine and Palestinians is that it continue to be the pivot man for Arabs to hate Jews. Not that Arabs have ever needed much of an excuse, or vice versa.

    One reason is that most if not all Arab countries are at carrying capacity, or over it, already. They only have so much arable land, and so much water.

    Another reason is that they don’t see why they should have to pay the piper for what Israel did and does.

    The third reason…considering that some folks I could name spent two thousand years saying “Next year in Jerusalem!” is it that hard to believe that the Palestinians might be just as devoted to justice for themselves as the others were to get “their homeland” back?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    If the carrying capacity argument had any more validity than an argument to limit the right to live in NYC because of limited arable land and water those states government's should, like India briefly, and China for decades, done something effective to curb fertlity in their own countries. Or they could just replace the millions of south, SE and East Asians they have imported to work for them with Palestinians.
  21. annamaria says:
    @joe webb
    Finkelstein , like Chomsky, is a zionist.

    I attended a talk by Finkelstein at Stanford University several years ago. He went into a Jewish lawyer meta-legalize razzle-dazzle on how 1948 was legal while 1967 was illegal. I did not want to rain on their parade (Arab students) but should have in retrospect. Of course, I have learned since that Arabs are pretty dumb, like around 85 IQ in general for the various Arab countries, and of course, the Stanford cohort must have been at least 100..... and I waited in vain for them to hoot the Jew zionist out of town....

    Still, he is a good looking aryan Jew and must be credited with enough smarts to do his chamelion act and get away with it. I especially liked his remarks about his mother, a putative holocaust survivor...(any jew in Europe alive after the war is legally a holocaust survivor). Finkelstein , in his Holocaust Industry I think, quotes Mom, "With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?" Amen to that.

    Sill, at the personal level, he is all right.

    Joe Webb

    Norman provided the readers with concrete facts; your post did not address any of the points of his report. Willingly or not, your post shouts “shoot the messenger.”

    Read More
  22. annamaria says:
    @J
    Dr Finkelstein needs to experience the Amira Hass learning moment to return to normalcy. The antiZionist Dr Amira Hass was asked to stop her lecture and was brutally kicked out of Ramallah’s Birzeit University because the students felt that she - an Israeli Jew - however loyal and dedicated to the Palestinian case, intruded in their "safe space". Dr Finkelstein should be mentally prepared to be publicly rejected and humiliated by his adored Arabs, as Dr Hass was.

    Could you give a commentary on the following? – “It is hard to come up with a more palpable instance of a quantitative difference turning into a qualitative one than the single Israeli child versus the 550 Gazan children killed, and it doesn’t diminish the sanctity of every life to take note that, if the death of one Israeli child is terrible, then, on the same calculus, the child deaths in Gaza are 550 times as terrible.”
    How is your mental health re the image of 550 children killed by the Israelis? Do you really believe that each and every Israeli is a paragon of nobility and intelligence or your ethnic pride is too sensitive to ponder on that question?

    Read More
  23. Oh, grow up! Amnesty International’s original purpose was to speak up for nonviolent prisoners of conscience worldwide. Personally, I believe that they would do well to stick to that and let war crimes and other mass atrocities to others. Believe it or not, there are things going on in the world other than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    Read More
    • Replies: @silviosilver
    Damn right. There are far more important things to worry about than innocent people being oppressed and slaughtered in the name of a supremacist sociopolitical ideology. People really need to grow up.
    , @Technomad
    I would personally be delighted not to have to care much, but I find myself dragged kicking and screaming into the fight because many of my idiotic fellow-citizens have a stupid squishy girly crush on the Israelis.

    Part of this is because, during the Cold War years, the Israelis looked like winners, when we mostly backed what looked to be, or turned out to be, losers. Part of this is because one segment of our population has largely replaced worship of the God of Israel with blind support of the State of Israel, and punishes dissidents with expulsion. Part of this is because a large, ignorant portion of our population follows a heretical, convoluted interpretation of Scripture where Israel's existence is needed to bring on the "End Times," where they get to go to Heaven without the distasteful necessity of dying, while we sinners get to go through, and then to, Hell. And part of this is because our news media industry has long been an echo chamber, where being accused of "anti-Semitism" or "bigotry" or "homophobia" or, the Ghods forbid, "racism" is far, far worse than mere pecadillos like murder, treason or slanting the news they are trusted to report.
  24. annamaria says:
    @MQ
    Wow, the anti-semites are really out on this thread.

    Finkelstein , in his Holocaust Industry I think, quotes Mom, “With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?” Amen to that.
     
    My grandfather (born in Poland around 1900) had seven siblings, he was the only one who survived the war. My mother grew up here with no paternal uncles, aunts, or cousins. So those were a few of the people who got killed.

    Of course after looking at your comment 14 I see that your view is that no matter how many Jews Hitler killed, he didn't get enough.

    You forgot that the topic of this discussion is the Israelis’ slaughter of Palestinians.
    The nazis committed horrible atrocities against Jews, Slavs, and Gypsies. But that was then. Today Israelis commit atrocities against the native population of the Middle East. The former Soviets from Moldova and Central Asia and Ukraine claim the Palestinian land as their own and this ethnocentric claim is based mendaciously on the ancient myths and insane ideas of romanticized German Jews (Jabotinsky and Herzl). The Israelis have been reenacting Holocaust in Palestine towards the native population since 1948. When people today think about the word Holocaust, they think about native Palestinians and about the cruelty and ethnic arrogance of Jews.

    Read More
  25. Seraphim says:
    @joe webb
    the dinner? cabaret in Monmartre: did the Jews present ask to please pass the salt and pepper, and did they have the "is it good for the Jews?" line then?

    Controlling the opposition may be unfair to Finkelstein, but it is close. He is a zionist, and it is as simple as that. However, I have long since given up on criticizing jews for being jews. They have, from an evolutionary/biological position, every right to lie, cheat, and steal for their people. And we have every duty to stop them, for our people. They have a right to a national home, and so do we, and every other race. Problem for them is that they stole their country...that does not work these days. Israel is the best thing that ever happened for the cause of anti-semitism. Hallelujah.

    Blair Mountain has it right. By the way, on about page 39 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, I discovered to my delight about ten years ago, C. states his zionist credentials. I blew the whistle on him, one of the first I believe to do so amongst the leftie groupies...I of course was never a groupie, but was somewhat leftish....a testament to family script, Vietnam, civil rights movement, and mostly, my own surplus altruism, now, thank god, redirected to my own people.

    I do not recall if I advertised my Uncle Sam routine of a few years ago here. Search for Uncle Sam and Joe Webb....get some chuckles. This was ca. 2004 in SF Bay Area.


    The Jew talks and talks and talks...all jewish lawyers. Except some of us pierce the talmudic muck with our skewers.

    By the way, going back to Shamir piece....these Jewish communists continue the Class argument and racial equality argument, in a desperate attempt to save themselves from a race discourse, and the rest of it. The Sacker may actually be a jew. I see on his website that he resides on Synagogue Street, somewhere in Russia I guess. Communism was largely a race war...jews agin goys

    Joe Webb

    @page 39 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle

    I personally had no doubt about that and I suspected that all his output was to divert attention from the real thing. I never had the patience to go through all his ravings, partly because I smelled the rat. Thank you to draw my attention to his “reluctant” confession. (In the version that I consulted is at page 40).

    Read More
  26. @geokat62

    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.
     
    What if the Germans had their own Torah that made it clear that any nation that made war on the German people was destined for extermination and had no human rights? Would that make it right?

    Judea Declares War on Germany - 1933 Newspaper headline.

    http://guardian.150m.com/jews/jews-declare-war.htm

    What if the Germans had their own Torah that made it clear that any nation that made war on the German people was destined for extermination and had no human rights? Would that make it right?

    Of course not.

    Read More
  27. geokat62 says:
    @Greasy William

    What if the Germans had their own Torah that made it clear that any nation that made war on the German people was destined for extermination and had no human rights? Would that make it right?
     
    Of course not.

    Of course not.

    I thought so!

    Read More
  28. @Adolf Verloc
    Oh, grow up! Amnesty International's original purpose was to speak up for nonviolent prisoners of conscience worldwide. Personally, I believe that they would do well to stick to that and let war crimes and other mass atrocities to others. Believe it or not, there are things going on in the world other than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    Damn right. There are far more important things to worry about than innocent people being oppressed and slaughtered in the name of a supremacist sociopolitical ideology. People really need to grow up.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Adolf Verloc
    There are many organizations that oppose Israeli policy that I fully support. Amnesty can do more good focussing con defending nonviolent prisoners of conscience of whom there are tragically many. Do you expect them to tackle deforestation or global warming - both good causes?
  29. @MQ
    Wow, the anti-semites are really out on this thread.

    Finkelstein , in his Holocaust Industry I think, quotes Mom, “With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?” Amen to that.
     
    My grandfather (born in Poland around 1900) had seven siblings, he was the only one who survived the war. My mother grew up here with no paternal uncles, aunts, or cousins. So those were a few of the people who got killed.

    Of course after looking at your comment 14 I see that your view is that no matter how many Jews Hitler killed, he didn't get enough.

    Wow, the anti-semites are really out on this thread.

    Yeah, it was a lucky save. Finkelstein’s article was pretty damning, but fortunately anti-semitism came to the rescue and rendered everything Finkelstein said irrelevant.

    Read More
  30. @joe webb
    the dinner? cabaret in Monmartre: did the Jews present ask to please pass the salt and pepper, and did they have the "is it good for the Jews?" line then?

    Controlling the opposition may be unfair to Finkelstein, but it is close. He is a zionist, and it is as simple as that. However, I have long since given up on criticizing jews for being jews. They have, from an evolutionary/biological position, every right to lie, cheat, and steal for their people. And we have every duty to stop them, for our people. They have a right to a national home, and so do we, and every other race. Problem for them is that they stole their country...that does not work these days. Israel is the best thing that ever happened for the cause of anti-semitism. Hallelujah.

    Blair Mountain has it right. By the way, on about page 39 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, I discovered to my delight about ten years ago, C. states his zionist credentials. I blew the whistle on him, one of the first I believe to do so amongst the leftie groupies...I of course was never a groupie, but was somewhat leftish....a testament to family script, Vietnam, civil rights movement, and mostly, my own surplus altruism, now, thank god, redirected to my own people.

    I do not recall if I advertised my Uncle Sam routine of a few years ago here. Search for Uncle Sam and Joe Webb....get some chuckles. This was ca. 2004 in SF Bay Area.


    The Jew talks and talks and talks...all jewish lawyers. Except some of us pierce the talmudic muck with our skewers.

    By the way, going back to Shamir piece....these Jewish communists continue the Class argument and racial equality argument, in a desperate attempt to save themselves from a race discourse, and the rest of it. The Sacker may actually be a jew. I see on his website that he resides on Synagogue Street, somewhere in Russia I guess. Communism was largely a race war...jews agin goys

    Joe Webb

    Joe, I’m curious: out of all the commentary you’ve egested over the years, what percentage of it would you estimate has actually helped your cause? Have you cracked a the whole-number barrier yet?

    Read More
  31. joe webb says:
    @MQ
    Wow, the anti-semites are really out on this thread.

    Finkelstein , in his Holocaust Industry I think, quotes Mom, “With all these holocaust survivors, who did Hitler kill?” Amen to that.
     
    My grandfather (born in Poland around 1900) had seven siblings, he was the only one who survived the war. My mother grew up here with no paternal uncles, aunts, or cousins. So those were a few of the people who got killed.

    Of course after looking at your comment 14 I see that your view is that no matter how many Jews Hitler killed, he didn't get enough.

    typical jewish logic and hatred. “Of course after looking at your comment 14 I see that your view is that no matter how many Jews Hitler killed, he didn’t get enough.”

    I said that? Jew lawyer again. Maybe you did not get the jewish humor of the Fink’s mother.

    As for the holocaust, I don’t believe it was anyway near the shrieking 6 million. Lots of jews were murdered and also killed as partizans. Whena people gets clobbered there is a reason for it. Most reasons are bad reasons, but in the case of the Jews, they are the constant haters of all things Christian and White. They will get wiped out sooner or later, if not by us, then by the Chinese.

    Auschwitz was claimed by the Jewish dominated communist party of Poland ca. 1946 to have murdered some 9 million jews. Or was it 14 million? the official number now is down well under one million including gentiles, who died either thru murder or illness. When you put the total number of 50 or so million deaths in the war, the whole jewish whining is just a fart in the wind.

    My advice to Jews is this: wanna stay alive? join the white race against the coloreds. It is that simple. We will forgive you your manifold and manifest sins against Whites if you do so.
    Of course, you will not do this, you instead will yammer on about anti-semites until the words stick in your throats due to violent acts. I am an anti-semite and proud of it….that I had the sense to awaken from my philo-semitism. Jews are nothing but pure Enemy of Whites, and actually of everybody else as well. They are haters first and last.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Re: Auschwitz

    In January 1988 the German ARD Television broadcasted the film, „VOR VIERZIG JAHREN" transmitted on the Third Programme on January 8, 1988. This contained the entire German movie newsreel (Wochenschau) released in Germany forty years earlier, on January 8, 1948, with the title 'Welt im Film.' This newsreel contained a report on the closing scenes of the Krakow Auschwitz Trial late in 1947. You may find a short clip @https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upgiaNvSEA4

    „In Krakau ging vor einem polnischen Gerichtshof der Prozeß gegen die Hauptverantwortlichen für das Konzentrationslager Auschwitz zu Ende. Die Angeklagten sind deutsche Lagerwachen oder Angehörige des deutschen Verwaltungspersonals. Es wurden ihnen unerhörte Greueltaten gegen die Lagerinsassen nachgewiesen, besonders gegen weibliche Gefangene. Insgesamt kamen nahezu 300.000 Menschen verschiedenster Nationen im Konzentrationslager Auschwitz um. Das Gericht verurteilte 23 Angeklagte zum Tode, 6 zu lebenslänglichem Gefängnis, 10 zu längeren Gefängnisstrafen, einer wurde freigesprochen. Das Konzentrationslager Auschwitz bleibt als Mahnmal der Schande so erhalten, wie es heute steht, zum bleibenden Gedenken an seine 300.000 Opfer."
    translation
    "IN KRAKOW the trial of the principal culprits for the Auschwitz concentration camp came to an end before a Polish court . The defendants were German camp guards or members of the German camp administration staff. Unheard-of atrocities against the camp inmates, particularly against female prisoners, were proved against them. Altogether nearly 300,000 people from the most different nations died in the Auschwitz concentration camp. The court sentenced 23 of the accused to death, six to life sentences, and ten to lengthy jail terms; one was acquitted. The Auschwitz concentration camp remains as it stands today, as a monument of shame to the lasting memory of its three hundred thousand victims."
  32. Technomad says:
    @Adolf Verloc
    Oh, grow up! Amnesty International's original purpose was to speak up for nonviolent prisoners of conscience worldwide. Personally, I believe that they would do well to stick to that and let war crimes and other mass atrocities to others. Believe it or not, there are things going on in the world other than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    I would personally be delighted not to have to care much, but I find myself dragged kicking and screaming into the fight because many of my idiotic fellow-citizens have a stupid squishy girly crush on the Israelis.

    Part of this is because, during the Cold War years, the Israelis looked like winners, when we mostly backed what looked to be, or turned out to be, losers. Part of this is because one segment of our population has largely replaced worship of the God of Israel with blind support of the State of Israel, and punishes dissidents with expulsion. Part of this is because a large, ignorant portion of our population follows a heretical, convoluted interpretation of Scripture where Israel’s existence is needed to bring on the “End Times,” where they get to go to Heaven without the distasteful necessity of dying, while we sinners get to go through, and then to, Hell. And part of this is because our news media industry has long been an echo chamber, where being accused of “anti-Semitism” or “bigotry” or “homophobia” or, the Ghods forbid, “racism” is far, far worse than mere pecadillos like murder, treason or slanting the news they are trusted to report.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Adolf Verloc
    I have been strongly opposed to Israeli and American Middle East policy for decades. My point is that as an institution, Amnesty should concentrate on defending nonviolent prisoners of conscience, its original mission.
  33. @Wizard of Oz
    I think someone might congratulate the IDF on the remarkably modest ratio of civilians killed to physical destruction. (Bibi or a minister has probably done that I guess). So what's NF's - or anyone else's answer to a criminal gang in charge of a large partially supportive family compound that uses that compound to launch potentially and sometimes actually lethal rocket attacks on one's law abiding workers and families?

    I think someone might congratulate the IDF on the remarkably modest ratio of civilians killed to physical destruction.

    An excellent point. By my calculation Israel’s ratio of civilians killed to homes destroyed is 1:11.5. The Palestinian ratio is a horrific 6:1. If Palestinians destroyed as many Israeli homes as Israelis did Palestinian, there would have been 108,000 dead Israeli civilians. Clearly Bibi’s more than just a great humanitarian; he’s a veritable Peace Prize. I wonder how the supporters of terrorism are going to try and spin their way out of this one.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Clearly Bibi’s more than just a great humanitarian; he’s a veritable Peace Prize. I wonder how the supporters of terrorism are going to try and spin their way out of this one.
     
    One would think population density is a major explanatory factor. Considering how less densely populated southern Israel is and the minimal damage that primitive rockets inflict, I was surprised to find that even one Israeli home was destroyed!

    When you contrast that with how densely populated Gaza is and that most Gazans reside in apartment complexes, which probably qualified as one home, it was a miracle "only" 1,560 civilians died. I'm sure, to deal with the demographic bomb threat, a higher threshold was targeted by your Nobel Peace Laureate. But I'm sure he'll address this issue by simply shortening the pauses between the cycles of "mowing the lawn"!

  34. Whatever says:
    @Flower
    What has not been discussed is Palestinian issue in regards to other Arab nations. What I mean by this is that so many Arab countries are angry at the Jews ostensibly because of the Palestine issue, yet I have yet to hear about any Arab country actually HELPING the Palestinian people. There are currently some 100k Somalians in Minneapolis, having been allowed to immigrate into the US, supposedly to try and free those Somalians from further distress in their own country. Very white of us, I'd say. Yet, how many Arab countries have opened their borders to even 1 Palestinian? Why doesn't, say, filthy rich Saudi Arabia declare love and kisses to the Palestinians and let them immigrate into the Saudi lands? Or filthy richer Qatar, or filthier rich Oman or Jordan or the Arab Emirates?

    Really, it seems like the only thing the Arab world is concerned about Palestine and Palestinians is that it continue to be the pivot man for Arabs to hate Jews. Not that Arabs have ever needed much of an excuse, or vice versa.

    Take it from me you are talking out of your @$$. about 6 million Palestinians live in the Arab world. Next time please check before you say whatever comes to your head.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians

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  35. @Technomad
    One reason is that most if not all Arab countries are at carrying capacity, or over it, already. They only have so much arable land, and so much water.

    Another reason is that they don't see why they should have to pay the piper for what Israel did and does.

    The third reason...considering that some folks I could name spent two thousand years saying "Next year in Jerusalem!" is it that hard to believe that the Palestinians might be just as devoted to justice for themselves as the others were to get "their homeland" back?

    If the carrying capacity argument had any more validity than an argument to limit the right to live in NYC because of limited arable land and water those states government’s should, like India briefly, and China for decades, done something effective to curb fertlity in their own countries. Or they could just replace the millions of south, SE and East Asians they have imported to work for them with Palestinians.

    Read More
  36. In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course.

    Read More
    • Replies: @silviosilver

    In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course.
     
    Yeah, I think that's right. That's why what Jews have always said about the nazis, after all. And when governments around the world offer to build Holocaust Museums, Jewish organizations rise up in and say in unison, "No, no, the nazis were stronger than us. That's the way of the world and we just have to accept what happened to us." I'm not even going to comment on the extreme embarrassment they feel when gentiles keep on producing holocaust documentaries.
    , @annamaria
    "In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course."
    Then what was the purpose of building the numerous Holocaust Museums? Before that, the Western civilization achieved a great leap forward by adopting the Bill of Rights, and, rather recently, the Geneva Conventions. American have already had their hands bloodied till shoulders because of the numerous regime changes, covert operations, "democracies on the march" and such. If Israelis (and the US Zionists) want to change the rules of the civilized society and rationalize the Jewish apartheid, they should first stop squeaking about anti-semitism and demanding from others to behave in civilized manner. It is long overdue to treat Israelis' property in Europe and the US the same way the Israelis have been treating the property of the native Palestinians.
  37. geokat62 says:
    @silviosilver

    I think someone might congratulate the IDF on the remarkably modest ratio of civilians killed to physical destruction.
     
    An excellent point. By my calculation Israel's ratio of civilians killed to homes destroyed is 1:11.5. The Palestinian ratio is a horrific 6:1. If Palestinians destroyed as many Israeli homes as Israelis did Palestinian, there would have been 108,000 dead Israeli civilians. Clearly Bibi's more than just a great humanitarian; he's a veritable Peace Prize. I wonder how the supporters of terrorism are going to try and spin their way out of this one.

    Clearly Bibi’s more than just a great humanitarian; he’s a veritable Peace Prize. I wonder how the supporters of terrorism are going to try and spin their way out of this one.

    One would think population density is a major explanatory factor. Considering how less densely populated southern Israel is and the minimal damage that primitive rockets inflict, I was surprised to find that even one Israeli home was destroyed!

    When you contrast that with how densely populated Gaza is and that most Gazans reside in apartment complexes, which probably qualified as one home, it was a miracle “only” 1,560 civilians died. I’m sure, to deal with the demographic bomb threat, a higher threshold was targeted by your Nobel Peace Laureate. But I’m sure he’ll address this issue by simply shortening the pauses between the cycles of “mowing the lawn”!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
    No shit. Let's recognize NuttyYahoo as the great humanitarian he is (?!).

    Anyway, never forget that the boys in Tel Aviv are at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis the Palestinians. The former are helpless and unarmed, while the nuclear-armed Palestinians are a mortal threat.
  38. @silviosilver
    Damn right. There are far more important things to worry about than innocent people being oppressed and slaughtered in the name of a supremacist sociopolitical ideology. People really need to grow up.

    There are many organizations that oppose Israeli policy that I fully support. Amnesty can do more good focussing con defending nonviolent prisoners of conscience of whom there are tragically many. Do you expect them to tackle deforestation or global warming – both good causes?

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  39. Tom_R says:
    @Greasy William
    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.

    If Mr. Finkelstein is really so concerned about the welfare of the Palestinians, he should try to organize their mass emigration from our Holy Soil so we would not be forced to harm them.

    SOME FACTS ABOUT THE FORGERY CALLED THE TORAH ONE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE RELYING ON IT.

    You said:

    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.

    The Torah (OT) is a “forgery” (See the book: “Forgery of the Old Testament” by Joseph McCabe) and “spurious” (–Thomas Paine). That is obvious from book 1, page 1. The Earth is not 6000 years old. Cultures (unknown to the scribes) flourished much before. Written records and archeological evidence using carbon dating show man’s presence tens of thousands of years ago, probably over a 100,000 years ago. A million people cannot live in a vast desert (without water or food) in a hostile nation for 40 years—and leave no trace.

    Moshe (an Egyptian, therefore African and Black) never existed. His story is copied from the older African myth of Mises. Exile and Exodus never happened. For eg., as stated in “Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho” (by Prof. Ze’ev Herzog of the Dept. of Archaeology, Tel Aviv University):

    “This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel….”

    See:

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/biblemyth.htm

    http://www.worldagesarchive.com/Reference_Links/False_Testament_(Harpers).htm

    About who fabricated the Torah, see the “Documentary Hypothesis” on wikipedia.

    The scribes who fabricated the Torah (OT) were black criminals or “human animals” (–Hitchens) who lied about God and then made up self-serving lies that they are “God’s Chosen.”

    It is sad to see anybody rely on the bogus “Torah” in this day and age.

    Read More
  40. @Technomad
    I would personally be delighted not to have to care much, but I find myself dragged kicking and screaming into the fight because many of my idiotic fellow-citizens have a stupid squishy girly crush on the Israelis.

    Part of this is because, during the Cold War years, the Israelis looked like winners, when we mostly backed what looked to be, or turned out to be, losers. Part of this is because one segment of our population has largely replaced worship of the God of Israel with blind support of the State of Israel, and punishes dissidents with expulsion. Part of this is because a large, ignorant portion of our population follows a heretical, convoluted interpretation of Scripture where Israel's existence is needed to bring on the "End Times," where they get to go to Heaven without the distasteful necessity of dying, while we sinners get to go through, and then to, Hell. And part of this is because our news media industry has long been an echo chamber, where being accused of "anti-Semitism" or "bigotry" or "homophobia" or, the Ghods forbid, "racism" is far, far worse than mere pecadillos like murder, treason or slanting the news they are trusted to report.

    I have been strongly opposed to Israeli and American Middle East policy for decades. My point is that as an institution, Amnesty should concentrate on defending nonviolent prisoners of conscience, its original mission.

    Read More
  41. Amnesty International is among the premier human rights organizations in the world

    This opening line dismisses the article as patently misinforming BS. All one needs to do is use google search ‘francis boyle, amnesty international’ and you’ll have about all the reading you require on an organization that swaps leadership and top management in a revolving door policy with CIA (and no doubt other intelligence agencies) friendly organizations (e.g. USAID) to spin rights abuses that cannot be swept under the rug by program ‘managers.’

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  42. @geokat62

    Clearly Bibi’s more than just a great humanitarian; he’s a veritable Peace Prize. I wonder how the supporters of terrorism are going to try and spin their way out of this one.
     
    One would think population density is a major explanatory factor. Considering how less densely populated southern Israel is and the minimal damage that primitive rockets inflict, I was surprised to find that even one Israeli home was destroyed!

    When you contrast that with how densely populated Gaza is and that most Gazans reside in apartment complexes, which probably qualified as one home, it was a miracle "only" 1,560 civilians died. I'm sure, to deal with the demographic bomb threat, a higher threshold was targeted by your Nobel Peace Laureate. But I'm sure he'll address this issue by simply shortening the pauses between the cycles of "mowing the lawn"!

    No shit. Let’s recognize NuttyYahoo as the great humanitarian he is (?!).

    Anyway, never forget that the boys in Tel Aviv are at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis the Palestinians. The former are helpless and unarmed, while the nuclear-armed Palestinians are a mortal threat.

    Read More
    • Replies: @silviosilver

    No shit. Let’s recognize NuttyYahoo as the great humanitarian he is (?!).
     
    I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.

    I prefer to call him Nutandyahoo, but yours works too.

    The former are helpless and unarmed, while the nuclear-armed Palestinians are a mortal threat.
     
    Grin. Nice one.
  43. @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course.

    In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course.

    Yeah, I think that’s right. That’s why what Jews have always said about the nazis, after all. And when governments around the world offer to build Holocaust Museums, Jewish organizations rise up in and say in unison, “No, no, the nazis were stronger than us. That’s the way of the world and we just have to accept what happened to us.” I’m not even going to comment on the extreme embarrassment they feel when gentiles keep on producing holocaust documentaries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    Your point about Jewish hypocrisy is well taken. Perhaps I wasn't clear, as I am not Zionist sympathizer.

    I believe that the Israeli takeover of all of the lands of Palestine (with the possible exception of Gaza) is inevitable. I just don't want my country to be complicit in the process.

    I do think the Jews will eventually regret taking back their "homeland." I don't know when, but a price will ultimately be paid.
  44. @Orville H. Larson
    No shit. Let's recognize NuttyYahoo as the great humanitarian he is (?!).

    Anyway, never forget that the boys in Tel Aviv are at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis the Palestinians. The former are helpless and unarmed, while the nuclear-armed Palestinians are a mortal threat.

    No shit. Let’s recognize NuttyYahoo as the great humanitarian he is (?!).

    I guess my sarcasm was too subtle.

    I prefer to call him Nutandyahoo, but yours works too.

    The former are helpless and unarmed, while the nuclear-armed Palestinians are a mortal threat.

    Grin. Nice one.

    Read More
  45. @silviosilver

    In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course.
     
    Yeah, I think that's right. That's why what Jews have always said about the nazis, after all. And when governments around the world offer to build Holocaust Museums, Jewish organizations rise up in and say in unison, "No, no, the nazis were stronger than us. That's the way of the world and we just have to accept what happened to us." I'm not even going to comment on the extreme embarrassment they feel when gentiles keep on producing holocaust documentaries.

    Your point about Jewish hypocrisy is well taken. Perhaps I wasn’t clear, as I am not Zionist sympathizer.

    I believe that the Israeli takeover of all of the lands of Palestine (with the possible exception of Gaza) is inevitable. I just don’t want my country to be complicit in the process.

    I do think the Jews will eventually regret taking back their “homeland.” I don’t know when, but a price will ultimately be paid.

    Read More
  46. annamaria says:
    @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course.

    “In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course.”
    Then what was the purpose of building the numerous Holocaust Museums? Before that, the Western civilization achieved a great leap forward by adopting the Bill of Rights, and, rather recently, the Geneva Conventions. American have already had their hands bloodied till shoulders because of the numerous regime changes, covert operations, “democracies on the march” and such. If Israelis (and the US Zionists) want to change the rules of the civilized society and rationalize the Jewish apartheid, they should first stop squeaking about anti-semitism and demanding from others to behave in civilized manner. It is long overdue to treat Israelis’ property in Europe and the US the same way the Israelis have been treating the property of the native Palestinians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    "If Israelis (and the US Zionists) want to change the rules of the civilized society and rationalize the Jewish apartheid, ..."

    Annamarina, it is not a permanent change they are seeking. They just want to alter them until they achieve their goal... a Greater Israel. Once they have accomplished this, they will once again revert to the rules of civilized society... you can rest assured. All they are seeking is a little time to accomplish what the early Europeans accomplished viz-a-viz the indigenous populations of the Americas!
  47. geokat62 says:
    @annamaria
    "In the history of mankind the strong always defeat the weak and take their stuff. This is what will inevitably occur in Palestine. I say we Americans should wash our hands of the mess and let nature take its course."
    Then what was the purpose of building the numerous Holocaust Museums? Before that, the Western civilization achieved a great leap forward by adopting the Bill of Rights, and, rather recently, the Geneva Conventions. American have already had their hands bloodied till shoulders because of the numerous regime changes, covert operations, "democracies on the march" and such. If Israelis (and the US Zionists) want to change the rules of the civilized society and rationalize the Jewish apartheid, they should first stop squeaking about anti-semitism and demanding from others to behave in civilized manner. It is long overdue to treat Israelis' property in Europe and the US the same way the Israelis have been treating the property of the native Palestinians.

    “If Israelis (and the US Zionists) want to change the rules of the civilized society and rationalize the Jewish apartheid, …”

    Annamarina, it is not a permanent change they are seeking. They just want to alter them until they achieve their goal… a Greater Israel. Once they have accomplished this, they will once again revert to the rules of civilized society… you can rest assured. All they are seeking is a little time to accomplish what the early Europeans accomplished viz-a-viz the indigenous populations of the Americas!

    Read More
  48. annamaria says:

    “They just want to alter them [rules] until they achieve their goal… a Greater Israel. Once they have accomplished this, they will once again revert to the rules of civilized society… you can rest assured.”
    You mean if you kill somebody in order to achieve your goal of stealing something really valuable, something you really (really!) want and thus violate some inconvenient rules, then your accomplishment would make you at instant a law-abiding member of a civilized society?
    This is an astonishingly interesting concept. I am not sure that you took into consideration a time-scale. The murder and appropriation by the early Europeans in Americas (their accomplishments “viz-a-viz the indigenous populations”) had happened BEFORE the “never again,” Geneva Conventions, and other laws of civilized behavior have became integrated into fabric of today’s world. Of course some people break these rules (see Baybee, Cheney, El Chapo…), but the violation of laws is called a crime. When too-big-to jail are let free and when war criminals are not punished, this tears the society apart. According to your logic, it was wrong for Israelis to hunt Eichmann because he simply wanted to “achieve their [Germans'] goal.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    According to your logic,..
     
    Annamarina, this is not my logic. I was, too subtly in retrospect, exposing the mindset of the Israelis and U.S. Zionists, as you put it, for everyone to understand what we're dealing with!
  49. Karl says:

    the Al-Andalus people disappeared, and so will the Palestinians. They can’t have our country. However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.

    Sorry, Norm.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Tom_R
    THERE IS A MUSLIM BORN EVERY DAY.

    There are billions of muslims in the world and they wish for nothing more than to finish Israel and the Judaists.

    All it takes for them is to unite and decide, enough is enough, and impose on oil embargo on USA/EU and put mines in the Suez canal.

    All ships and planes will stop, trucks stop carrying goods and there will be long lines at the pump. They will demand nuclear weapons for Iran and Saudis, etc. and they will all nuke Israel.

    They can do it tomorrow, if they want.

    And Israel will be finished.

    Israel lives every day on the good will and patience or naivete of the 2 billion muslims.

    , @geokat62

    However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.
     
    EBY, welcome back! If they Nazis say this, they are evil. If the Zionists say it, they are strong and macho... right?
    , @geokat62

    However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.
     
    EBY, welcome back! If the Nazis say these things, they are evil. But if the Zionists say it, they are macho and strong, right?
  50. Tom_R says:
    @Karl
    the Al-Andalus people disappeared, and so will the Palestinians. They can't have our country. However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.

    Sorry, Norm.

    THERE IS A MUSLIM BORN EVERY DAY.

    There are billions of muslims in the world and they wish for nothing more than to finish Israel and the Judaists.

    All it takes for them is to unite and decide, enough is enough, and impose on oil embargo on USA/EU and put mines in the Suez canal.

    All ships and planes will stop, trucks stop carrying goods and there will be long lines at the pump. They will demand nuclear weapons for Iran and Saudis, etc. and they will all nuke Israel.

    They can do it tomorrow, if they want.

    And Israel will be finished.

    Israel lives every day on the good will and patience or naivete of the 2 billion muslims.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Greasy William

    They will demand nuclear weapons for Iran and Saudis, etc. and they will all nuke Israel.
     
    They can "demand" whatever they want, they won't be getting it.

    If Saudi Arabia or Iran decided to stop pumping out oil, those regimes would collapse and their populations would starve.

    Nile to the Euphrates. If you like Muslims you should encourage them to make peace with us and thus spare them unnecessary suffering.
  51. geokat62 says:
    @annamaria
    "They just want to alter them [rules] until they achieve their goal… a Greater Israel. Once they have accomplished this, they will once again revert to the rules of civilized society… you can rest assured."
    You mean if you kill somebody in order to achieve your goal of stealing something really valuable, something you really (really!) want and thus violate some inconvenient rules, then your accomplishment would make you at instant a law-abiding member of a civilized society?
    This is an astonishingly interesting concept. I am not sure that you took into consideration a time-scale. The murder and appropriation by the early Europeans in Americas (their accomplishments "viz-a-viz the indigenous populations") had happened BEFORE the "never again," Geneva Conventions, and other laws of civilized behavior have became integrated into fabric of today's world. Of course some people break these rules (see Baybee, Cheney, El Chapo...), but the violation of laws is called a crime. When too-big-to jail are let free and when war criminals are not punished, this tears the society apart. According to your logic, it was wrong for Israelis to hunt Eichmann because he simply wanted to "achieve their [Germans'] goal."

    According to your logic,..

    Annamarina, this is not my logic. I was, too subtly in retrospect, exposing the mindset of the Israelis and U.S. Zionists, as you put it, for everyone to understand what we’re dealing with!

    Read More
  52. geokat62 says:
    @Karl
    the Al-Andalus people disappeared, and so will the Palestinians. They can't have our country. However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.

    Sorry, Norm.

    However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.

    EBY, welcome back! If they Nazis say this, they are evil. If the Zionists say it, they are strong and macho… right?

    Read More
  53. geokat62 says:
    @Karl
    the Al-Andalus people disappeared, and so will the Palestinians. They can't have our country. However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.

    Sorry, Norm.

    However many bullets it takes to ensure this, is the number we will use.

    EBY, welcome back! If the Nazis say these things, they are evil. But if the Zionists say it, they are macho and strong, right?

    Read More
  54. @Tom_R
    THERE IS A MUSLIM BORN EVERY DAY.

    There are billions of muslims in the world and they wish for nothing more than to finish Israel and the Judaists.

    All it takes for them is to unite and decide, enough is enough, and impose on oil embargo on USA/EU and put mines in the Suez canal.

    All ships and planes will stop, trucks stop carrying goods and there will be long lines at the pump. They will demand nuclear weapons for Iran and Saudis, etc. and they will all nuke Israel.

    They can do it tomorrow, if they want.

    And Israel will be finished.

    Israel lives every day on the good will and patience or naivete of the 2 billion muslims.

    They will demand nuclear weapons for Iran and Saudis, etc. and they will all nuke Israel.

    They can “demand” whatever they want, they won’t be getting it.

    If Saudi Arabia or Iran decided to stop pumping out oil, those regimes would collapse and their populations would starve.

    Nile to the Euphrates. If you like Muslims you should encourage them to make peace with us and thus spare them unnecessary suffering.

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62

    Nile to the Euphrates.
     
    How Zionists refer to Greater Israel.

    If you like Muslims you should encourage them to make peace with us and thus spare them unnecessary suffering.
     
    Didn't the Arabs put forward a peace proposal back in 2002 that they subsequently reaffirmed in 2007... that the Zionist project never accepted?
  55. annamaria says:
    @geokat62

    According to your logic,..
     
    Annamarina, this is not my logic. I was, too subtly in retrospect, exposing the mindset of the Israelis and U.S. Zionists, as you put it, for everyone to understand what we're dealing with!

    I apologize

    Read More
    • Replies: @geokat62
    No problem, Annamarina.

    btw - I really enjoy reading your posts.

  56. Seraphim says:
    @joe webb
    typical jewish logic and hatred. "Of course after looking at your comment 14 I see that your view is that no matter how many Jews Hitler killed, he didn’t get enough."

    I said that? Jew lawyer again. Maybe you did not get the jewish humor of the Fink's mother.

    As for the holocaust, I don't believe it was anyway near the shrieking 6 million. Lots of jews were murdered and also killed as partizans. Whena people gets clobbered there is a reason for it. Most reasons are bad reasons, but in the case of the Jews, they are the constant haters of all things Christian and White. They will get wiped out sooner or later, if not by us, then by the Chinese.

    Auschwitz was claimed by the Jewish dominated communist party of Poland ca. 1946 to have murdered some 9 million jews. Or was it 14 million? the official number now is down well under one million including gentiles, who died either thru murder or illness. When you put the total number of 50 or so million deaths in the war, the whole jewish whining is just a fart in the wind.

    My advice to Jews is this: wanna stay alive? join the white race against the coloreds. It is that simple. We will forgive you your manifold and manifest sins against Whites if you do so.
    Of course, you will not do this, you instead will yammer on about anti-semites until the words stick in your throats due to violent acts. I am an anti-semite and proud of it....that I had the sense to awaken from my philo-semitism. Jews are nothing but pure Enemy of Whites, and actually of everybody else as well. They are haters first and last.


    Joe Webb

    Re: Auschwitz

    In January 1988 the German ARD Television broadcasted the film, „VOR VIERZIG JAHREN” transmitted on the Third Programme on January 8, 1988. This contained the entire German movie newsreel (Wochenschau) released in Germany forty years earlier, on January 8, 1948, with the title ‘Welt im Film.’ This newsreel contained a report on the closing scenes of the Krakow Auschwitz Trial late in 1947. You may find a short clip @https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upgiaNvSEA4

    „In Krakau ging vor einem polnischen Gerichtshof der Prozeß gegen die Hauptverantwortlichen für das Konzentrationslager Auschwitz zu Ende. Die Angeklagten sind deutsche Lagerwachen oder Angehörige des deutschen Verwaltungspersonals. Es wurden ihnen unerhörte Greueltaten gegen die Lagerinsassen nachgewiesen, besonders gegen weibliche Gefangene. Insgesamt kamen nahezu 300.000 Menschen verschiedenster Nationen im Konzentrationslager Auschwitz um. Das Gericht verurteilte 23 Angeklagte zum Tode, 6 zu lebenslänglichem Gefängnis, 10 zu längeren Gefängnisstrafen, einer wurde freigesprochen. Das Konzentrationslager Auschwitz bleibt als Mahnmal der Schande so erhalten, wie es heute steht, zum bleibenden Gedenken an seine 300.000 Opfer.”
    translation
    “IN KRAKOW the trial of the principal culprits for the Auschwitz concentration camp came to an end before a Polish court . The defendants were German camp guards or members of the German camp administration staff. Unheard-of atrocities against the camp inmates, particularly against female prisoners, were proved against them. Altogether nearly 300,000 people from the most different nations died in the Auschwitz concentration camp. The court sentenced 23 of the accused to death, six to life sentences, and ten to lengthy jail terms; one was acquitted. The Auschwitz concentration camp remains as it stands today, as a monument of shame to the lasting memory of its three hundred thousand victims.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @joe webb
    So, Seraphim, is this the final count and is it reliable and how many jews vs. gentiles....?


    Quite a few years since 1989 and the holocaust deniers keep working on the thing and there must be some more recent research and numbers.
    thanks, Joe Webb
  57. joe webb says:
    @Seraphim
    Re: Auschwitz

    In January 1988 the German ARD Television broadcasted the film, „VOR VIERZIG JAHREN" transmitted on the Third Programme on January 8, 1988. This contained the entire German movie newsreel (Wochenschau) released in Germany forty years earlier, on January 8, 1948, with the title 'Welt im Film.' This newsreel contained a report on the closing scenes of the Krakow Auschwitz Trial late in 1947. You may find a short clip @https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upgiaNvSEA4

    „In Krakau ging vor einem polnischen Gerichtshof der Prozeß gegen die Hauptverantwortlichen für das Konzentrationslager Auschwitz zu Ende. Die Angeklagten sind deutsche Lagerwachen oder Angehörige des deutschen Verwaltungspersonals. Es wurden ihnen unerhörte Greueltaten gegen die Lagerinsassen nachgewiesen, besonders gegen weibliche Gefangene. Insgesamt kamen nahezu 300.000 Menschen verschiedenster Nationen im Konzentrationslager Auschwitz um. Das Gericht verurteilte 23 Angeklagte zum Tode, 6 zu lebenslänglichem Gefängnis, 10 zu längeren Gefängnisstrafen, einer wurde freigesprochen. Das Konzentrationslager Auschwitz bleibt als Mahnmal der Schande so erhalten, wie es heute steht, zum bleibenden Gedenken an seine 300.000 Opfer."
    translation
    "IN KRAKOW the trial of the principal culprits for the Auschwitz concentration camp came to an end before a Polish court . The defendants were German camp guards or members of the German camp administration staff. Unheard-of atrocities against the camp inmates, particularly against female prisoners, were proved against them. Altogether nearly 300,000 people from the most different nations died in the Auschwitz concentration camp. The court sentenced 23 of the accused to death, six to life sentences, and ten to lengthy jail terms; one was acquitted. The Auschwitz concentration camp remains as it stands today, as a monument of shame to the lasting memory of its three hundred thousand victims."

    So, Seraphim, is this the final count and is it reliable and how many jews vs. gentiles….?

    Quite a few years since 1989 and the holocaust deniers keep working on the thing and there must be some more recent research and numbers.
    thanks, Joe Webb

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    @is this the final count?

    Well, it is a figure given by a Tribunal in 1948. They certainly did not agree with the one given by the first "interrogators" sent to Europe from US to investigate the crimes. They came to the figure of 12 million Jews killed in the gas chambers. The fact that all the interrogators were Jews (either American of German emigrated to America) prompted the famous journalist Walter Lippman (himself Jew) to warn the Jews in the 'New York Herald Tribune' that they risked to undermine their own credibility and, lo and behold, the figure dropped to six.
    Once you drop, you will continue dropping.
    The original memorial plaque at the International Monument for the victims of Auschwitz was giving the figure of 4 million: "FOUR MILLION PEOPLE SUFFERED AND DIED HERE AT THE HANDS OF THE NAZI MURDERERS BETWEEN THE YEARS 1940 AND 1945".
    But to everyone amazement in 1995 the plaque was changed and the new inscription had:
    "FOR EVER LET THIS PLACE BE A CRY OF DESPAIR AND A WARNING TO HUMANITY, WHERE THE NAZIS MURDERED ABOUT ONE AND A HALF MILLION MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN MAINLY JEWS FROM VARIOUS COUNTRIES OF EUROPE. AUSCHWITZ-BIRKENAU 1940-1945".
    But the official estimate, currently given by the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum, is 1.1 million deaths.
    Another little change over time:
    "The Soviets also charged the German war criminals with killing 1.5 million prisoners at Majdanek. That figure has now been reduced to 78,000 by the Majdanek Museum. Out of this number, 59,000 were Jews."
    @https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/why-do-the-numbers-for-auschwitz-birkenau-keep-changing/
    , @Seraphim
    @final count... more recent research and numbers.

    Here are more recent numbers:

    LUENEBURG, Germany – A former SS officer known as the Bookkeeper of Auschwitz said he was "very sorry" for his time stationed at the Nazi death camp, ahead of a verdict in Germany expected on Wednesday.
    Groening has been on trial since April, accused of 300,000 counts of accessory to murder in the cases of deported Hungarian Jews sent to the gas chambers between May and July 1944.
    @http://www.enca.com/world/bookkeeper-auschwitz-trial-verdict-expected

    300,ooo!!!

    "Estimates provided by Buszko at the end of his article on Auschwitz, which appeared in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust:
    Of the 405,000 registered prisoners, 65,000 survived
    Of the 16,000 Soviet POW's, 96 survived
    Various estimates suggest 1.6 million were murdered"
    @http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-09.html

    So, the numbers in the first trial of the guards at Auschwitz (Krakow 1948) gives 300,000
    The second (of the Bookeeper - who is 94yo) gives the same figure.
    And registered were 405,000!
    All the rest are "estimations" of what should have happen!
  58. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    During the 2012 NATO summit in Chicago AI put up large ads at bus stop shelters with a picture of two burka-clad adult women leading a girl. In all caps it pronounced: HUMAN RIGHTS for WOMEN and GIRLS in AFGHANISTAN, and, NATO: KEEP THE PROGRESS GOING.
    This made me do a double take. Progress, what progress? Dropping bombs on people is a form of progress? Why would AI put up propaganda posters cheering on some war like this? AI has obviously been taken over from the inside.

    Read More
  59. geokat62 says:
    @Greasy William

    They will demand nuclear weapons for Iran and Saudis, etc. and they will all nuke Israel.
     
    They can "demand" whatever they want, they won't be getting it.

    If Saudi Arabia or Iran decided to stop pumping out oil, those regimes would collapse and their populations would starve.

    Nile to the Euphrates. If you like Muslims you should encourage them to make peace with us and thus spare them unnecessary suffering.

    Nile to the Euphrates.

    How Zionists refer to Greater Israel.

    If you like Muslims you should encourage them to make peace with us and thus spare them unnecessary suffering.

    Didn’t the Arabs put forward a peace proposal back in 2002 that they subsequently reaffirmed in 2007… that the Zionist project never accepted?

    Read More
  60. Seraphim says:
    @joe webb
    So, Seraphim, is this the final count and is it reliable and how many jews vs. gentiles....?


    Quite a few years since 1989 and the holocaust deniers keep working on the thing and there must be some more recent research and numbers.
    thanks, Joe Webb

    @is this the final count?

    Well, it is a figure given by a Tribunal in 1948. They certainly did not agree with the one given by the first “interrogators” sent to Europe from US to investigate the crimes. They came to the figure of 12 million Jews killed in the gas chambers. The fact that all the interrogators were Jews (either American of German emigrated to America) prompted the famous journalist Walter Lippman (himself Jew) to warn the Jews in the ‘New York Herald Tribune’ that they risked to undermine their own credibility and, lo and behold, the figure dropped to six.
    Once you drop, you will continue dropping.
    The original memorial plaque at the International Monument for the victims of Auschwitz was giving the figure of 4 million: “FOUR MILLION PEOPLE SUFFERED AND DIED HERE AT THE HANDS OF THE NAZI MURDERERS BETWEEN THE YEARS 1940 AND 1945″.
    But to everyone amazement in 1995 the plaque was changed and the new inscription had:
    “FOR EVER LET THIS PLACE BE A CRY OF DESPAIR AND A WARNING TO HUMANITY, WHERE THE NAZIS MURDERED ABOUT ONE AND A HALF MILLION MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN MAINLY JEWS FROM VARIOUS COUNTRIES OF EUROPE. AUSCHWITZ-BIRKENAU 1940-1945″.
    But the official estimate, currently given by the Auschwitz-Birkenau Museum, is 1.1 million deaths.
    Another little change over time:
    “The Soviets also charged the German war criminals with killing 1.5 million prisoners at Majdanek. That figure has now been reduced to 78,000 by the Majdanek Museum. Out of this number, 59,000 were Jews.”
    @https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/why-do-the-numbers-for-auschwitz-birkenau-keep-changing/

    Read More
  61. Seraphim says:
    @joe webb
    So, Seraphim, is this the final count and is it reliable and how many jews vs. gentiles....?


    Quite a few years since 1989 and the holocaust deniers keep working on the thing and there must be some more recent research and numbers.
    thanks, Joe Webb

    @final count… more recent research and numbers.

    Here are more recent numbers:

    LUENEBURG, Germany – A former SS officer known as the Bookkeeper of Auschwitz said he was “very sorry” for his time stationed at the Nazi death camp, ahead of a verdict in Germany expected on Wednesday.
    Groening has been on trial since April, accused of 300,000 counts of accessory to murder in the cases of deported Hungarian Jews sent to the gas chambers between May and July 1944.
    @http://www.enca.com/world/bookkeeper-auschwitz-trial-verdict-expected

    300,ooo!!!

    “Estimates provided by Buszko at the end of his article on Auschwitz, which appeared in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust:
    Of the 405,000 registered prisoners, 65,000 survived
    Of the 16,000 Soviet POW’s, 96 survived
    Various estimates suggest 1.6 million were murdered”
    @http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-09.html

    So, the numbers in the first trial of the guards at Auschwitz (Krakow 1948) gives 300,000
    The second (of the Bookeeper – who is 94yo) gives the same figure.
    And registered were 405,000!
    All the rest are “estimations” of what should have happen!

    Read More
    • Replies: @szopen
    You have also estimations for various other events. Whenever you read in hsitory book that "30.000 people died" or "300.000 people died" it's mostly like an estimation.

    But still you have to account for the fact that before war we had 3 millions Jews in Poland alone, and after war some 200-300 thousand. And they had very, very high natural growth. Were they are? Are they all hiding somewhere?
  62. The Palestinians got exactly what they were asking for. They positioned their own children to be slaughtered for the benefit of media coverage. I have nothing but disgust for them. Nor do I agree with the premise that the Israelites are more responsible due to their higher efficiency at defending their interests than the Palestinians have.

    I’ll stick with despising specific Jews for their actions against America and Europe.

    Read More
  63. annamaria says:

    “They [Palestinians] positioned their own children to be slaughtered for the benefit of media coverage.”
    Actually, Israeli government prohibits the Palestinian youth from exiting Gaza in order to study abroad or in other part of Palestinian territories. Israeli government prefers exterminating the Palestinian students at their homes.

    http://gisha.org/updates/3939

    http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/children-s-rights/the-right-to-education/background-information-help-palestinians-access-education

    http://www.aaanet.org/issues/policy-advocacy/AAA-Calls-for-Freedom-to-Study-Abroad-for-Palestinians-in-Gaza.cfm

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.570281

    The Gaza Ghetto is used as a cage for humiliating and demoralizing the native population. It is really indecent that you follow Bibi’s claim that it was a fault of Palestinian parents that the Israeli bombardment of the locked Gaza Ghetto produced photogenic corpses of small children.

    Read More
  64. @Ozymandias
    The Palestinians got exactly what they were asking for. They positioned their own children to be slaughtered for the benefit of media coverage. I have nothing but disgust for them. Nor do I agree with the premise that the Israelites are more responsible due to their higher efficiency at defending their interests than the Palestinians have.

    I'll stick with despising specific Jews for their actions against America and Europe.

    Piss on Israel, that criminal, racist Zionist entity.

    Read More
  65. szopen says:
    @Seraphim
    @final count... more recent research and numbers.

    Here are more recent numbers:

    LUENEBURG, Germany – A former SS officer known as the Bookkeeper of Auschwitz said he was "very sorry" for his time stationed at the Nazi death camp, ahead of a verdict in Germany expected on Wednesday.
    Groening has been on trial since April, accused of 300,000 counts of accessory to murder in the cases of deported Hungarian Jews sent to the gas chambers between May and July 1944.
    @http://www.enca.com/world/bookkeeper-auschwitz-trial-verdict-expected

    300,ooo!!!

    "Estimates provided by Buszko at the end of his article on Auschwitz, which appeared in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust:
    Of the 405,000 registered prisoners, 65,000 survived
    Of the 16,000 Soviet POW's, 96 survived
    Various estimates suggest 1.6 million were murdered"
    @http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/auschwitz/auschwitz-faq-09.html

    So, the numbers in the first trial of the guards at Auschwitz (Krakow 1948) gives 300,000
    The second (of the Bookeeper - who is 94yo) gives the same figure.
    And registered were 405,000!
    All the rest are "estimations" of what should have happen!

    You have also estimations for various other events. Whenever you read in hsitory book that “30.000 people died” or “300.000 people died” it’s mostly like an estimation.

    But still you have to account for the fact that before war we had 3 millions Jews in Poland alone, and after war some 200-300 thousand. And they had very, very high natural growth. Were they are? Are they all hiding somewhere?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    Don't you find a strange coincidence that the same figure pops up at two identical trials? Were did those figures come from? And both well under the million mark?
    The trouble is that registers of death certificates have survived. Captured in 1945 by the Red Army, which "liberated" the already deserted camp, they have been kept in the Soviet archives and made known in 1989 (46 volumes spanning the years 1941, 42, 43. Inmate deaths at Auschwitz were recorded by the camp authorities on certificates that were bound in dozens of death registry volumes. The extant registers document (with all the German pedantic meticulosity) 67,227 deaths. To these, researchers added an additional 63,069 extrapolated deaths. So, it would appear that the total death toll at Auschwitz/Birkenau is less than 150,000.
    All the other "estimations" are based on the "confessions" and "affidavits" of Rudolf Hoss. Or on the memories of Elie Wiesel, who strangely enough chose to leave the camp with the Germans, although he was in hospital and the Germans left behind all the sick.
    , @Seraphim
    @3 millions Jews in Poland alone...Are they all hiding somewhere?

    In actual fact, yes.
    The Jews from Poland lived mainly in the Eastern part, occupied by the Soviets in 1939. At the beginning of the war in Russia, they have been evacuated to the East (Urals, Kazakhstan). The figure acknowledged by the American Jewish Council for Russian Relief is TWO MILLION. They all returned and pursued their journey to the West (maybe... Palestine?).
    The number of Jews in Europe in 1939 was 6,500,000
    The number of Jews in the Soviet Union in 1945 was 5,800,000 of which 2,200,000 who have "migrated to escape the Nazis"!
    Exterminated 6,000,000
    Number of Jews claiming indemnity from Germany in 1965 3,500,000.
    Strange mathematics! But maybe indeed the "ovens were incubators".
  66. Seraphim says:
    @szopen
    You have also estimations for various other events. Whenever you read in hsitory book that "30.000 people died" or "300.000 people died" it's mostly like an estimation.

    But still you have to account for the fact that before war we had 3 millions Jews in Poland alone, and after war some 200-300 thousand. And they had very, very high natural growth. Were they are? Are they all hiding somewhere?

    Don’t you find a strange coincidence that the same figure pops up at two identical trials? Were did those figures come from? And both well under the million mark?
    The trouble is that registers of death certificates have survived. Captured in 1945 by the Red Army, which “liberated” the already deserted camp, they have been kept in the Soviet archives and made known in 1989 (46 volumes spanning the years 1941, 42, 43. Inmate deaths at Auschwitz were recorded by the camp authorities on certificates that were bound in dozens of death registry volumes. The extant registers document (with all the German pedantic meticulosity) 67,227 deaths. To these, researchers added an additional 63,069 extrapolated deaths. So, it would appear that the total death toll at Auschwitz/Birkenau is less than 150,000.
    All the other “estimations” are based on the “confessions” and “affidavits” of Rudolf Hoss. Or on the memories of Elie Wiesel, who strangely enough chose to leave the camp with the Germans, although he was in hospital and the Germans left behind all the sick.

    Read More
  67. @Anna
    I know nothing of Bibi’s claim, the truth of the situation has been readily apparent for some time, to those who care to look. Tell me, is it your opinion that when the Palestinians elected Hamas, they were too stupid to know what they were voting for?

    @Orville
    Have at it. Drink plenty of water first.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    You mean, when the Jewish Ghettos inhabitants allowed themselves to rebel they did it only because they wanted to harm their children? "Between 1941 and 1943, underground resistance movements developed in approximately 100 ghettos in Nazi-occupied eastern Europe... The Jews knew that uprisings would not stop the Germans and that only a handful of fighters would succeed in escaping to join the partisans. Still, some Jews made the decision to resist. Weapons were smuggled into ghettos."
    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005407
    Bibi's indecent characterization, "“telegenically dead:"
    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/telegenic-israels-crumbling
    Some details of the history of Hamas: "How Israel helped create Hamas"
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847
  68. annamaria says:
    @Ozymandias
    @Anna
    I know nothing of Bibi's claim, the truth of the situation has been readily apparent for some time, to those who care to look. Tell me, is it your opinion that when the Palestinians elected Hamas, they were too stupid to know what they were voting for?

    @Orville
    Have at it. Drink plenty of water first.

    You mean, when the Jewish Ghettos inhabitants allowed themselves to rebel they did it only because they wanted to harm their children? “Between 1941 and 1943, underground resistance movements developed in approximately 100 ghettos in Nazi-occupied eastern Europe… The Jews knew that uprisings would not stop the Germans and that only a handful of fighters would succeed in escaping to join the partisans. Still, some Jews made the decision to resist. Weapons were smuggled into ghettos.”

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005407

    Bibi’s indecent characterization, ““telegenically dead:”

    http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/telegenic-israels-crumbling

    Some details of the history of Hamas: “How Israel helped create Hamas”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

    Read More
  69. Seraphim says:
    @szopen
    You have also estimations for various other events. Whenever you read in hsitory book that "30.000 people died" or "300.000 people died" it's mostly like an estimation.

    But still you have to account for the fact that before war we had 3 millions Jews in Poland alone, and after war some 200-300 thousand. And they had very, very high natural growth. Were they are? Are they all hiding somewhere?

    @3 millions Jews in Poland alone…Are they all hiding somewhere?

    In actual fact, yes.
    The Jews from Poland lived mainly in the Eastern part, occupied by the Soviets in 1939. At the beginning of the war in Russia, they have been evacuated to the East (Urals, Kazakhstan). The figure acknowledged by the American Jewish Council for Russian Relief is TWO MILLION. They all returned and pursued their journey to the West (maybe… Palestine?).
    The number of Jews in Europe in 1939 was 6,500,000
    The number of Jews in the Soviet Union in 1945 was 5,800,000 of which 2,200,000 who have “migrated to escape the Nazis”!
    Exterminated 6,000,000
    Number of Jews claiming indemnity from Germany in 1965 3,500,000.
    Strange mathematics! But maybe indeed the “ovens were incubators”.

    Read More
  70. @geokat62

    The Torah makes it clear that any nation that makes war on the Jewish people is destined for extermination and has no human rights.
     
    What if the Germans had their own Torah that made it clear that any nation that made war on the German people was destined for extermination and had no human rights? Would that make it right?

    Judea Declares War on Germany - 1933 Newspaper headline.

    http://guardian.150m.com/jews/jews-declare-war.htm
    Read More
  71. geokat62 says:
    @Bill Jones
    Here, have a graphic

    https://terragermania.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/dailyexpress_judea_declares_war_on_germany.gif?w=300&h=212

    Thanks

    Read More
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