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Washington Slapdown: Turkey Turns to Moscow for Help
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“Turkey is slowly leaving the Atlantic system. That is the reason behind this coup. That is the reason why NATO is panicking. This is much broader and much bigger than Erdogan. This is a tectonic movement. This will affect Turkish-Syrian relations, Turkish-Chinese relations, Turkish-Russian relations and Turkish-Iranian relations. This will change the world.”

— Yunus Soner, Deputy Chairman Turkish Patriotic Party

“It is becoming clear that the attempted putsch was not just the work of a small clique of dissatisfied officers inside the armed forces; it was rather the product of a vast conspiracy to take over the Turkish state that was decades in the making and might well have succeeded.”

— Patrick Cockburn, CounterPunch

On August 9, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan will meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin in Saint Petersburg The two leaders will discuss political developments following the recent coup-attempt in Turkey, tourism, and the launching of Turkstream, the natural gas pipeline that will transform Turkey into southern Europe’s biggest energy hub.. They are also expected to explore options for ending the fighting in Syria. Putin will insist that Erdogan make a concerted effort to stop Islamic militants from crossing back-and-forth into Syria, while Erdogan will demand that Putin do everything in his power to prevent the emergence of an independent Kurdish state on Turkey’s southern border. The meeting will end with the typical smiles and handshakes accompanied by a joint statement pledging to work together peacefully to resolve regional issues and to put an end to the proxy war that has left Syria in tatters.

All in all, the confab will seem like another public relations charade devoid of any larger meaning, but that’s certainly not the case. The fact is, the normalizing of relations between Russia and Turkey will foreshadow a bigger geopolitical shift that will link Ankara to Tehran, Damascus and other Russian allies across Eurasia. The alliance will alter the global chessboard in a way that eviscerates the imperial plan to control the flow of energy from Qatar to Europe, redraw the map of the Middle East and pivot to Asia. That strategy will either be decimated or suffer a severe setback. The reasons for this should be fairly obvious to anyone who can read a map. Turkey’s location makes it the indispensable state, the landbridge that connects the wealth and modernity of the EU with the vast resources and growing population of Asia. That vital connecting piece of the geopolitical puzzle is gradually slipping out of Washington’s orbit and into enemy territory. The July 15 coup is likely the final nail in the NWO coffin for reasons we will discuss later. Here’s a clip from Eric Draitser’s insightful piece titled “Erdogan’s Checkmate: CIA-Backed Coup in Turkey Fails, Upsets Global Chessboard” that summarizes what’s going on:

“Ultimately, the failed 2016 coup in Turkey will have lasting ramifications that will impact the years and decades ahead. With Turkey now clearly breaking with the US-NATO-EU axis, it is rather predictable that it will seek to not only mend fences with both Russia and China, but to place itself into the non-western camp typified by BRICS, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, China’s One Belt One Road strategy, the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, etc.” (“Erdogan’s Checkmate: CIA-Backed Coup in Turkey Fails, Upsets Global Chessboard“, Global Research)

In an earlier part of the article, Draitser correctly identifies the followers of Fethullah Gulen as the perpetrators of the coup. As he and others have pointed out, Gulen’s agents have penetrated all levels of the Turkish state and military acting as a shadow government (aka- “parallel state”) that poses a direct threat to Turkey’s national security.. Here’s journalist Patrick Cockburn making the same point in a recent article in CounterPunch:

“There is little question left that the followers of Fethullah Gulen were behind the coup attempt, despite his repeated denials. “I don’t have any doubt that the brain and backbone of the coup were the Gulenists,” says Kadri Gursel, usually a critic of the government. He adds that he is astonished by the degree to which the Gulenists were able to infiltrate and subvert the armed forces, judiciary and civil service. ….

…it is difficult to find anybody on the left or right who does not suspect that at some level the US was complicit in the coup attempt. Erdogan is probably convinced of this himself, despite US denials, and this will shape his foreign policy in future….

…if the coup had more successful, Turkey would have faced a full-blown military dictatorship or a civil war, or both. Erdogan said in an interview that foreign leaders who now counsel moderation would have danced for joy if he had been killed by the conspirators….” (“After the Coup, Turkey is Being Torn Apart“, Patrick Cockburn, CounterPunch)

If the coup had succeeded, then it is quite likely that Erdogan would have been savagely murdered like Gadhafi while the state was plunged into a long-term civil war. This is why Erdogan has removed tens of thousands of Gulen sympathizers or operatives from their positions in the state, the media, the military and the universities. These prisoners will now be charged with supporting the coup (treason?) and could face the death penalty. Critics in the Obama administration and western media have lambasted Erdogan for violating civil liberties in his effort to rid the country of fifth columnists and traitors, but the Turkish President will have none of it. He has angrily responded saying that Washington was “taking the side of the coup leaders.”

“Now I ask”, said Erdogan, “does the West give support to terror or not? Is the West on the side of democracy or on the side of coups and terror? Unfortunately, the West gives support to terror and stands on the side of coups….We have not received the support we were expecting from our friends, neither during nor after the coup attempt.”

Erdoğan lamented that no Western leader had come to Turkey to express condolences and show solidarity with the Turkish people.” (Hurriyet, Turkish Daily)

He has a point, doesn’t he? While I am no fan of the autocratic and narcissistic Erdogan, it’s very suspicious that Washington is so eager to criticize and so reluctant to help. After all, the two countries are allies, right?

And what does Erdogan want?

He wants the US to extradite Gulen (who currently lives in exile in Pennsylvania) so he can face charges of treason in Turkey.. According to Erdogan, “Documents have been sent to the U.S.” establishing Gulen’s guilt. But the Obama administration remains unmoved, even though Turkey has handed over terrorists to the US in the past without evidence. Apparently, sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

It’s worth repeating what Cockburn said in the excerpt above. He said: “it is difficult to find anybody on the left or right who does not suspect that at some level the US was complicit in the coup attempt.”

Why is that? Why does everyone in Turkey –regardless of their politics or ethnicity–think the US had a hand in the coup?

Take a look at this clip from an article at the World Socialist Web Site which helps to explain:

“US claims that Washington had no advance warning of the coup are simply not credible. Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base, which hosts more than 5,000 American soldiers and is the main base for the US-led bombing campaign against Syria and Iraq, was the organizing center of the putsch. Pro-coup fighter jets flew in and out of Incirlik as the coup unfolded. Shortly after the coup failed, the base commander, General Bekir Ercan Van, was arrested along with other pro-coup soldiers at the base.

Given that Incirlik is the site of dozens of US nuclear weapons, no credibility can be given to claims that US intelligence was unaware that a coup against Erdogan was being organized from there. Were that truly the case, it would represent a CIA intelligence breakdown of stunning proportions….

A pro-coup officer captured by the Turkish government, Lieutenant Colonel Murat Bolat, told the conservative Yeni Savak newspaper that his unit was designated to detain and possibly murder Erdogan after receiving precise information on Erdogan’s location from US sources.

“A person in the meeting, whom I guess was an officer from the Special Forces, said, ‘Nobody will be allowed to rescue the president from our hands,’” he said, indicating that this meant Erdogan was to be shot after he was captured if the forces who had arrested him faced any counterattack.” (“Erdogan accuses US of supporting failed coup in Turkey“, World Socialist Web Site)

While the information is not conclusive, it is suspicious. At the very least, Washington knew a coup was being planned and looked the other way. This except from a post by Harvard professor, Dani Rodrik seems like a very plausible explanation of US involvement to me. Here’s a brief clip:

“The U.S. government may not have had a direct hand in Gulen’s activities, but it is more difficult to dismiss the argument that it provided tacit support – or that some parts of the U.S. administration prevailed on other parts who were less keen on Gulen.

…As the Wikileaks cables I referred to above make clear, the State Department, at least, has been well aware of Gulenist infiltration of the Turkish military for quite some time. The Gulenists’s role in Sledgehammer, which led to the discharge of many of the most Kemalist/secularist officers in the military is equally clear. Beyond Sledgehammer, the Gulenists’ wide range of clandestine operations against opponents in Turkey must be well known to American intelligence…..

…the head of the Turkish military, who was held hostage by the putschists during the coup attempt, has said that one of his captors offered to put him in touch with Gulen directly. This, on its own, is prima facie evidence of Gulen’s involvement, and likely passes the “probable cause” test that is required for extradition. Incredibly, administration officials are still quoted as saying “there is no credible evidence of Mr. Gulen’s personal involvement.” In other words, these officials must think that the army chief of their NATO ally is lying.” (“Is the U.S. behind Fethullah Gulen?“, Dani Rodrik’s Blog)

The Obama administration’s support for the Kurds in Syria as well as its behavior following the coup of July 15, has led to a dramatic deterioration in US-Turkey relations. This will undoubtedly effect Erdogan’s willingness to allow the US to use its airbases for conducting bombing raids in Syria in the future. It’s also bound to accelerate the pace at which Turkey strengthens relations with Russia, Iran and others as it will need the protection of new allies to better defend itself against threats from the west.

The Obama administration is still uncertain of how to proceed mainly because no one had expected that Erdogan would break with Washington, purge his enemies, pursue rapprochement with Moscow, Tehran and Damascus, and throw a wrench in Uncle Sam’s plan for redrawing the map of the Middle East. At present, the administration is trying to ease tensions by dispatching one high-ranking official after the other to persuade Erdogan that the US was not involved in the coup. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joseph Dunford visited Ankara just this week while Secretary of State John Kerry and Vice President Joe Biden are scheduled for later in the month. Eventually, even Obama will be asked to make the trek. No effort will be spared to bring Erdogan back into the fold.

If, however, the charm offensive fails, as I expect it will, Erdogan will be crucified in the western media (Hitler Erdogan) while covert operatives and NGOs try to foment political instability. At least, that’s the way things normally play out.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at fergiewhitney@msn.com.

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Counterpunch Archives, Erdogan, Russia, Turkey 
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  1. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “Now I ask”, said Erdogan, “does the West give support to terror or not? Is the West on the side of democracy or on the side of coups and terror?

    That’s pretty rich, coming from a person involved in the Ghouta false flag chemical attack that killed hundreds of innocent civilians. Apparently he and his clique think nothing of committing mass murder. They have a record of involvement with the events in Syria and support for the worst sort of terrorist jihadis.
    What were the aims of the coup leaders? Is it known in what direction they wanted to steer Turkey? Loyalty to one’s country is not the same as blind obedience to whatever dictator happens to be in charge at the moment. Removing a megalomaniac criminal is not treason, it’s patriotism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    Very well put - but don't expect the "yayy-Erdogan-the-people's-democracy-hero" cheerleading nitwits, like for instance that Smart Pundit Man-Fraud Israel Shamir, to admit these basic commonsense facts. As if Erdogan, his regime, or Turkey today have anything to do with real democracy.
    , @Dogan
    This first comment by anonymous summarizes the biggest fault about the American Foreign Policy. You gotta understand "The end doesn't justify the means." at some point after all those mistakes in the last 3 decades.
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  2. So Turkey joins with Russia, China and Iran. How long before Germany sees the light?

    Read More
    • Replies: @attonn
    There will be another coup, far more brutal and efficient. Give it some time, but it's a certainty.

    Erdogan is a marked man for Washington.
  3. “… no credibility can be given to claims that US intelligence was unaware that a coup against Erdogan was being organized from there.”

    This is stupid beyond words. US Intelligence has often shown dire incompetence and it is not even close to being outside the realm of credible that the CIA & DIA knew nothing of the coup attempt.

    What is going on here is the next step in setting up the alliance that will act out Ezekial chapters 38 & 39. Persia is already in the fold, and now Gomer is coming in.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Begemot
    Gomer? Gomer Pyle? Is coming in? Wow. I'm all Agog.
  4. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website

    US is sure to bitch about this and go blah blah blah.

    But is Zionist-controlled US any better than Saddam Hussein?

    Hussein was a tyrant scum who had 100,000s of Kurds killed, many by poison gas attacks.
    Hussein did this to force his authority over them and to crush their defiance and will.

    US says this makes Hussein a monster.

    But what did US do in the 90s?

    To make Iraq obey and comply to American agenda, the US used sanctions to collectively harm and destroy entire populations.

    US didn’t use poison gas against the Iraqis. Instead it used disease and starvation to crush Iraqi will. Like Hussein, US came to kill 100,000s of innocent people, mostly women and children.

    So, Zio-US is just as ruthless and heartless as Hussein.

    And now we have Hillary against Libya and Syria the spirit of IT TAKES A PILLAGE.

    Hollywood gave us some critical movies about US Middle East policy in the Bush yrs. But none in the Obama yrs. That is ‘progressivism’. It is anti-war only under Republican regime. It is either pro-war or ignore-war under Democratic regime. Ever since the anti-war movement destroyed the Johnson presidency, the Progs have been very selective about the politics of anti-war agenda. Use it only for partisan purposes and damn the principles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ronan
    So we can't have a discussion in European press these days without Antisemitic drivel....LOL
    , @Wizard of Oz
    You seem to forget, as do those who rail mindlessly against the recent agreement with Iran, that effective sanctions aren't something involving just two countries: not even when the US is one of them.
  5. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website

    There are so many competing narratives about what happened.

    Turkey might as well be called Murkey.

    I wonder if Saudi Royal Family is worried about the US.

    US shook hands with Gadaffi but had him deposed.

    US treated Erdogan as ally but have have worked with Gulen to try to overthrow him.

    US supported the military coup against democratically elected governments in Egypt and Ukraine.

    US supported the coup in Honduras.

    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/9/hillary-clinton-honduraslatinamericaforeignpolicy.html

    The Saudi family might be thinking… ‘are we next?’

    They better be total bitches to the US cuz they might meet the same fate as the Gadfly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Hill
    I wonder how it is that Uncle Sam's vassals never figure out that doing a deal with Uncle Sam is signing one's own death warrant.
  6. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website

    From Gold Standard to Black Gold(petroleum) Standard.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    loonie logic.

    basically, this dude's argument = "It was better to smash Iraq, Libya, Syria, spending trillions of dollars, creating unfathomable human misery and shattered states and lives for generations to come, in order to oversee a slloooww decline of US dollar (which decline is extraordinarily precipitated by US spending trillions to smash Iraq, Libya, etc,), rather that experience a fast decline of US dollar.

    Doesn't make sense.

    The dollar, and US as a nation with global respect and fair trading relationships could have been more secure and sound had US, beginning with George H W Bush in 1990, followed the advice of non-neocons like Flynt Leverett https://www.sia.psu.edu/faculty/leverett

    Thus, one has to assume that the smashing of Iraq, Libya, Syria etc. with resultant chaos was not an unforeseen sort-kinda mistake, it was a plan.

    In a chat at Wilson Center last year, Aaron David Miller (playing Netanyahu) and Yossi Alpher (channeling the outgoing foreign minister) discussed the mistakes US policymakers made re Syria, Iraq, Libya; noted that the chaos surrounding Israel was a benefit to Israel. In response to a question from Jane Harman, who runs the US taxpayer-funded Wilson Center, re Israeli support for military dictator Sisi in Egypt and that strategy's impact on young Egyptians whose rights were being suppressed and denied by Sisi, Alpher said, "Of course it's horrible that young Egyptians are having their human rights denied, and it will make them angry. Israel acts in its own interest, and it is in the interest of Israel to have Egypt controlled by a military dictator."
  7. It’s worth repeating what Cockburn said in the excerpt above. He said: “it is difficult to find anybody on the left or right who does not suspect that at some level the US was complicit in the coup attempt.”

    It may be difficult but not impossible. I remember an article published not so long ago by Philip Giraldi in which he was trying to absolve the US from any involvement. In his opinion to suggest that CIA had a hand in the coup is absurd.

    Read More
  8. Patriot says:

    It is the goal of Israel and its puppet, America, to overthrow or destroy all Islamic nations that can threaten Israel. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakastan are on that list. Watch the You-Tube video: General Clark The Plan for the other countries selected to receive large doses of “Freedom & Democary”.

    Read More
  9. Begemot says:
    @Quartermaster
    "... no credibility can be given to claims that US intelligence was unaware that a coup against Erdogan was being organized from there."

    This is stupid beyond words. US Intelligence has often shown dire incompetence and it is not even close to being outside the realm of credible that the CIA & DIA knew nothing of the coup attempt.

    What is going on here is the next step in setting up the alliance that will act out Ezekial chapters 38 & 39. Persia is already in the fold, and now Gomer is coming in.

    Gomer? Gomer Pyle? Is coming in? Wow. I’m all Agog.

    Read More
    • LOL: Bill
    • Replies: @Brohemius
    What's wrong? Do you not know the writings of the Prophet Hal?
  10. Parbes says:
    @anonymous

    “Now I ask”, said Erdogan, “does the West give support to terror or not? Is the West on the side of democracy or on the side of coups and terror?
     
    That's pretty rich, coming from a person involved in the Ghouta false flag chemical attack that killed hundreds of innocent civilians. Apparently he and his clique think nothing of committing mass murder. They have a record of involvement with the events in Syria and support for the worst sort of terrorist jihadis.
    What were the aims of the coup leaders? Is it known in what direction they wanted to steer Turkey? Loyalty to one's country is not the same as blind obedience to whatever dictator happens to be in charge at the moment. Removing a megalomaniac criminal is not treason, it's patriotism.

    Very well put – but don’t expect the “yayy-Erdogan-the-people’s-democracy-hero” cheerleading nitwits, like for instance that Smart Pundit Man-Fraud Israel Shamir, to admit these basic commonsense facts. As if Erdogan, his regime, or Turkey today have anything to do with real democracy.

    Read More
  11. Parbes says:

    Mike Whitney gets almost everything wrong here, like he frequently does when opining about world events far away from the U.S. homeland that he only semi-understands. The coup attempt was carried out by a coterie of desperate secular army officers, not “Gülenists”; it is Erdogan regime propaganda that seeks to pin it on “Gülenists”, in order to be able to kill two birds with one stone and push ahead with his preplanned massive purges of both secularists AND Gülenists. Erdogan has not really broken with the U.S./NATO yet, or become part of any sort of a “Eurasian axis” with Russia. He has made no moves at all to leave NATO or close the NATO Incirlik Airbase in Southern Turkey. He is still very much in the Anglo-Zionist/Saudi/jihadi axis, and continuing to support the jihadi terrorists in Syria and everywhere else. The Erdogan regime’s so-called “rapprochement” with Russia is entirely fake and insincere, and in the end nothing will come of it. Erdogan is just trying to play the U.S. and Russia off against one another, lull Russia into passivity while he gains time and consolidates his internal position via purges and repression, act like a sultry mistress with the U.S. to get more favors (like handing over Gülen or suppressing his activities), and maybe get some economic goodies (cheap natural gas, renewed tourism, contracts for Turkish construction companies) from foolish Russia to prop up his faltering economy, thus tamping down public discontent with his Islamist dictatorship.

    Read More
    • Replies: @landlubber
    Yeah, I will believe Erdogan has changed policies when ISIL in Syria is literally starving, which it would be if trade with Turkey were cut off.
    , @Dogan
    I think you're the one who is commenting about a world event far away from U.S. homeland that you only semi-understand. The coup has nothing to do with the secularist army officers, and it's almost certain that Gulen was behind the coup, either with direct or indirect order.

    The article is embellished for sure, but not that part.
  12. attonn says:
    @WorkingClass
    So Turkey joins with Russia, China and Iran. How long before Germany sees the light?

    There will be another coup, far more brutal and efficient. Give it some time, but it’s a certainty.

    Erdogan is a marked man for Washington.

    Read More
  13. @Parbes
    Mike Whitney gets almost everything wrong here, like he frequently does when opining about world events far away from the U.S. homeland that he only semi-understands. The coup attempt was carried out by a coterie of desperate secular army officers, not "Gülenists"; it is Erdogan regime propaganda that seeks to pin it on "Gülenists", in order to be able to kill two birds with one stone and push ahead with his preplanned massive purges of both secularists AND Gülenists. Erdogan has not really broken with the U.S./NATO yet, or become part of any sort of a "Eurasian axis" with Russia. He has made no moves at all to leave NATO or close the NATO Incirlik Airbase in Southern Turkey. He is still very much in the Anglo-Zionist/Saudi/jihadi axis, and continuing to support the jihadi terrorists in Syria and everywhere else. The Erdogan regime's so-called "rapprochement" with Russia is entirely fake and insincere, and in the end nothing will come of it. Erdogan is just trying to play the U.S. and Russia off against one another, lull Russia into passivity while he gains time and consolidates his internal position via purges and repression, act like a sultry mistress with the U.S. to get more favors (like handing over Gülen or suppressing his activities), and maybe get some economic goodies (cheap natural gas, renewed tourism, contracts for Turkish construction companies) from foolish Russia to prop up his faltering economy, thus tamping down public discontent with his Islamist dictatorship.

    Yeah, I will believe Erdogan has changed policies when ISIL in Syria is literally starving, which it would be if trade with Turkey were cut off.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    Precisely. But this simple logic eludes the genius brains of many pompous pontificators who rush to proclaim this Islamist tyrant their hero for surviving a coup attempt.
  14. Brohemius says:
    @Begemot
    Gomer? Gomer Pyle? Is coming in? Wow. I'm all Agog.

    What’s wrong? Do you not know the writings of the Prophet Hal?

    Read More
  15. Parbes says:
    @landlubber
    Yeah, I will believe Erdogan has changed policies when ISIL in Syria is literally starving, which it would be if trade with Turkey were cut off.

    Precisely. But this simple logic eludes the genius brains of many pompous pontificators who rush to proclaim this Islamist tyrant their hero for surviving a coup attempt.

    Read More
  16. Dogan says:
    @Parbes
    Mike Whitney gets almost everything wrong here, like he frequently does when opining about world events far away from the U.S. homeland that he only semi-understands. The coup attempt was carried out by a coterie of desperate secular army officers, not "Gülenists"; it is Erdogan regime propaganda that seeks to pin it on "Gülenists", in order to be able to kill two birds with one stone and push ahead with his preplanned massive purges of both secularists AND Gülenists. Erdogan has not really broken with the U.S./NATO yet, or become part of any sort of a "Eurasian axis" with Russia. He has made no moves at all to leave NATO or close the NATO Incirlik Airbase in Southern Turkey. He is still very much in the Anglo-Zionist/Saudi/jihadi axis, and continuing to support the jihadi terrorists in Syria and everywhere else. The Erdogan regime's so-called "rapprochement" with Russia is entirely fake and insincere, and in the end nothing will come of it. Erdogan is just trying to play the U.S. and Russia off against one another, lull Russia into passivity while he gains time and consolidates his internal position via purges and repression, act like a sultry mistress with the U.S. to get more favors (like handing over Gülen or suppressing his activities), and maybe get some economic goodies (cheap natural gas, renewed tourism, contracts for Turkish construction companies) from foolish Russia to prop up his faltering economy, thus tamping down public discontent with his Islamist dictatorship.

    I think you’re the one who is commenting about a world event far away from U.S. homeland that you only semi-understand. The coup has nothing to do with the secularist army officers, and it’s almost certain that Gulen was behind the coup, either with direct or indirect order.

    The article is embellished for sure, but not that part.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    "The coup has nothing to do with the secularist army officers, and it’s almost certain that Gulen was behind the coup"

    Your evidence for this statement? And no, the disinformation put out by the Erdogan regime is not "evidence". Nothing that they say or claim is reliable; and free press has been muzzled in Turkey.

    I think you are a pro-Erdogan propagandist.
  17. Dogan says:
    @anonymous

    “Now I ask”, said Erdogan, “does the West give support to terror or not? Is the West on the side of democracy or on the side of coups and terror?
     
    That's pretty rich, coming from a person involved in the Ghouta false flag chemical attack that killed hundreds of innocent civilians. Apparently he and his clique think nothing of committing mass murder. They have a record of involvement with the events in Syria and support for the worst sort of terrorist jihadis.
    What were the aims of the coup leaders? Is it known in what direction they wanted to steer Turkey? Loyalty to one's country is not the same as blind obedience to whatever dictator happens to be in charge at the moment. Removing a megalomaniac criminal is not treason, it's patriotism.

    This first comment by anonymous summarizes the biggest fault about the American Foreign Policy. You gotta understand “The end doesn’t justify the means.” at some point after all those mistakes in the last 3 decades.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Parbes
    What does Anonymous' comment have to do with "American foreign policy" or "the end justifying the means", third-rate Erdogan troll?
  18. Perhaps this explains the evacuation of all American military and diplomat families from Turkey last March:

    http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/hundreds-of-military-dependents-ordered-to-leave-turkey-1.401622

    “The mandatory departure order, announced by the State Department, affects nearly all Defense Department dependents assigned to Incirlik, as well as those at smaller bases in Izmir and Mugla. The families of U.S. diplomats in the same areas also are ordered to depart.

    On Monday Israel issued a new travel advisory for Turkey, warning Israeli citizens to leave the country as soon as possible and avoid any traveling there.”
    __________________

    They blamed ISIS, but the USA has been bombing “terrorists” in the region for over a decade, but never considered families at risk until recently, just before the attempted coup.

    Read More
  19. utu says:

    We hears already of budding Netanyahu’s bromance with Putin. With Erdogan we have interesting ménage à trois.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/08/israel-and-russia-bbfs-netanyahus-budding-bromance-with-putin/

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Steven Simon, an Israel firster, said in a conference at Dartmouth in Fall 2014 that the Israel-US relationship was on the wane, that Israel did not need US any more. Israel can form relationships with China and India, in addition to Netanyahu's initiative toward Saudi Arabia, he argued.

    When Dennis Ross became the charter chairman of Israel's Jewish People's Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI) back in 2002, one of the first white papers produced was Schlomo Wald's assessment of he potential for an Israeli-China relationship in the coming event of US decline in superpower status.



    The Obama administration is dragging its feet on a new 10 year MOU that Israelis want, but little missies McCain and Graham, Trump's new BFFs -- are cheerleading for more US money for Israel and increasing Israeli infiltration into the deepest secrets of US military, intelligence and weaponry.

    American legislators MUST think very seriously about US handing money and secrets to Israel at a time when Israel is drawing closer to China. US is providing financial support to the regime that will destroy it, and that regime is Israel.


    1993: Israel Sells Arms to China, U. S. Says
    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html


    2013: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China
    http://www.defensetech.org/2013/12/24/report-israel-passes-u-s-military-technology-to-china/



    If US is wary of a rising China that will displace US as world's economic superpower, then the first thing US congress must do is stop funding Israel.
    , @bigbadwolf
    Both Turkey and Israel can sense the way the wind is changing. The US-centric world is in irrevocable decline. The only ones who don't see this are Americans living in the US and hence trapped in the false world created by US mass media. Even the Germans are now hedging their bets.
  20. Ronan says:
    @Priss Factor
    US is sure to bitch about this and go blah blah blah.

    But is Zionist-controlled US any better than Saddam Hussein?

    Hussein was a tyrant scum who had 100,000s of Kurds killed, many by poison gas attacks.
    Hussein did this to force his authority over them and to crush their defiance and will.

    US says this makes Hussein a monster.

    But what did US do in the 90s?

    To make Iraq obey and comply to American agenda, the US used sanctions to collectively harm and destroy entire populations.

    US didn't use poison gas against the Iraqis. Instead it used disease and starvation to crush Iraqi will. Like Hussein, US came to kill 100,000s of innocent people, mostly women and children.

    So, Zio-US is just as ruthless and heartless as Hussein.

    And now we have Hillary against Libya and Syria the spirit of IT TAKES A PILLAGE.

    Hollywood gave us some critical movies about US Middle East policy in the Bush yrs. But none in the Obama yrs. That is 'progressivism'. It is anti-war only under Republican regime. It is either pro-war or ignore-war under Democratic regime. Ever since the anti-war movement destroyed the Johnson presidency, the Progs have been very selective about the politics of anti-war agenda. Use it only for partisan purposes and damn the principles.

    So we can’t have a discussion in European press these days without Antisemitic drivel….LOL

    Read More
  21. utu says:

    Pipeline, oil gas are all secondary. Mike Whitney thinks too much like a Marxist or capitalist. The most important issue to Turkey are Kurds. Erdogan was betrayed by Americans who began to implement Israel policy of building up Kurds to make partition of Iraq permanent. He realized that only Russia can give him now a leverage against the US. Up to now he did everything what was asked from him by the US: he was supporting rebels in Syria, kept supplying ISIS and in November 2015 shot down Su-24 to prevent rapprochement between France and Russia on Syrian issue after the Bataclan terror attack. To get Russia support he had to reorient his policy in Syria by announcing that (1) regime change in Syria is not necessary, Assad can stay and (2) Turkey will fight ISIS. Before that he started contacts with Putin and restored diplomatic relations with Israel. He even had terrorist attack on Istanbul airport arranged and blamed on ISIS. None of so-called ISIS media outlet run by ISIS imposters took responsibility for the attack. The attack was for the internal consumption to justify the policy change in Syria. Turks would not understand why Assad suddenly ceased to be the chief enemy. About at the same time he replaced his Prime Minister. And then, within few days, the coup happened. From the point of view cui bono the US must be the culprit. There are not many Turks who think otherwise. Whether US was behind it or not is now irrelevant. The Turks will not accept returning to the pre coup status vis a vis America. Erdogan has no choice now but to actually carry out the promise of the change of policy in Syria. It’s is great chance for Russia and a lifesaver for Assad.

    Read More
  22. I looked at headlines and skimmed the Comments to see whether anyone thought MW had a contribution to make on the subject but content myself with the pleasure of contemplating (with ill will to all) Putin and Erdogan becoming entangled. What’s not to like?

    And, further thought. Who needs Turkey in NATO unless you really think Russia is going to start gobbling up Eastern Europe again?

    If the EU is to survive it is surely going to have to learn how to turn back boat arrivals without crawling to Turkey.

    Read More
  23. Jason Liu says:

    Good. Did you ever think a Russian led coalition of nationalist societies would be the ones to challenge liberal democracy, and therefore maybe save the west in the long run? The best thing to do now is for Europe is gradually defect from western values to Russian ones, then maybe the purgings can begin.

    Read More
  24. Parbes says:
    @Dogan
    I think you're the one who is commenting about a world event far away from U.S. homeland that you only semi-understand. The coup has nothing to do with the secularist army officers, and it's almost certain that Gulen was behind the coup, either with direct or indirect order.

    The article is embellished for sure, but not that part.

    “The coup has nothing to do with the secularist army officers, and it’s almost certain that Gulen was behind the coup”

    Your evidence for this statement? And no, the disinformation put out by the Erdogan regime is not “evidence”. Nothing that they say or claim is reliable; and free press has been muzzled in Turkey.

    I think you are a pro-Erdogan propagandist.

    Read More
  25. Parbes says:
    @Dogan
    This first comment by anonymous summarizes the biggest fault about the American Foreign Policy. You gotta understand "The end doesn't justify the means." at some point after all those mistakes in the last 3 decades.

    What does Anonymous’ comment have to do with “American foreign policy” or “the end justifying the means”, third-rate Erdogan troll?

    Read More
  26. @utu
    We hears already of budding Netanyahu's bromance with Putin. With Erdogan we have interesting ménage à trois.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/08/israel-and-russia-bbfs-netanyahus-budding-bromance-with-putin/

    Steven Simon, an Israel firster, said in a conference at Dartmouth in Fall 2014 that the Israel-US relationship was on the wane, that Israel did not need US any more. Israel can form relationships with China and India, in addition to Netanyahu’s initiative toward Saudi Arabia, he argued.

    When Dennis Ross became the charter chairman of Israel’s Jewish People’s Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI) back in 2002, one of the first white papers produced was Schlomo Wald’s assessment of he potential for an Israeli-China relationship in the coming event of US decline in superpower status.

    The Obama administration is dragging its feet on a new 10 year MOU that Israelis want, but little missies McCain and Graham, Trump’s new BFFs — are cheerleading for more US money for Israel and increasing Israeli infiltration into the deepest secrets of US military, intelligence and weaponry.

    American legislators MUST think very seriously about US handing money and secrets to Israel at a time when Israel is drawing closer to China. US is providing financial support to the regime that will destroy it, and that regime is Israel.

    1993: Israel Sells Arms to China, U. S. Says

    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html

    2013: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China

    http://www.defensetech.org/2013/12/24/report-israel-passes-u-s-military-technology-to-china/

    If US is wary of a rising China that will displace US as world’s economic superpower, then the first thing US congress must do is stop funding Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bigbadwolf
    "If US is wary of a rising China that will displace US as world’s economic superpower, then the first thing US congress must do is stop funding Israel."

    China is now the world's top economic power. The US is not wary about this as it has already occurred. The US, like every waning empire, is increasingly using military force to buttress its position as top dog in the international pecking order. Yet it continues to lose influence and face on almost daily basis.
    , @Alden
    I read the Los Angeles Jewish Journal all the time I can't help it, free copies are distributed all over the neighborhood
    ( gotta keep an eye on the enemy)

    Anyway, for the last ten years there have been articles extolling the similarities between Chinese and Jewish culture. It was also pushing marriage between Chinese women and Jewish men a decade before the Zuckerbergs became famous

    I can't comment on the rest of the article because I don't believe anything written by a Cockburn
  27. Rehmat says:

    Yunus Soner seems to be a smart politician. He avoided to mention the 800 Gorilla in Erdogan’s ‘royal palace’ – Israel.

    Turkey has always maintained cordial relations with Syria, Russia, and China. The situation changed four years ago when Erdogan offered his services to help a bloody regime change in Damascus for the Zionist regime. Bashar al-Assad never demanded the return of two Syrian provinces still under Turkish occupation.

    In June 2016, realizing that Turkey’s 4-year-old proxy war in Syria and Iraq for Israel has collapsed, Turkish prime minister Binali Yildirim announced that Ankara intends to repair its relation with Damascus and Baghdad which have maintained very close relations with Tehran.

    “We will expand the circle of friendship. We have already started doing it,” he said in a televised address.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/07/14/pm-turkey-wants-to-repair-relations-with-syria/

    Read More
  28. @utu
    We hears already of budding Netanyahu's bromance with Putin. With Erdogan we have interesting ménage à trois.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/08/israel-and-russia-bbfs-netanyahus-budding-bromance-with-putin/

    Both Turkey and Israel can sense the way the wind is changing. The US-centric world is in irrevocable decline. The only ones who don’t see this are Americans living in the US and hence trapped in the false world created by US mass media. Even the Germans are now hedging their bets.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    Even the Germans are now hedging their bets.
     
    in what ways?
  29. @SolontoCroesus
    Steven Simon, an Israel firster, said in a conference at Dartmouth in Fall 2014 that the Israel-US relationship was on the wane, that Israel did not need US any more. Israel can form relationships with China and India, in addition to Netanyahu's initiative toward Saudi Arabia, he argued.

    When Dennis Ross became the charter chairman of Israel's Jewish People's Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI) back in 2002, one of the first white papers produced was Schlomo Wald's assessment of he potential for an Israeli-China relationship in the coming event of US decline in superpower status.



    The Obama administration is dragging its feet on a new 10 year MOU that Israelis want, but little missies McCain and Graham, Trump's new BFFs -- are cheerleading for more US money for Israel and increasing Israeli infiltration into the deepest secrets of US military, intelligence and weaponry.

    American legislators MUST think very seriously about US handing money and secrets to Israel at a time when Israel is drawing closer to China. US is providing financial support to the regime that will destroy it, and that regime is Israel.


    1993: Israel Sells Arms to China, U. S. Says
    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html


    2013: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China
    http://www.defensetech.org/2013/12/24/report-israel-passes-u-s-military-technology-to-china/



    If US is wary of a rising China that will displace US as world's economic superpower, then the first thing US congress must do is stop funding Israel.

    “If US is wary of a rising China that will displace US as world’s economic superpower, then the first thing US congress must do is stop funding Israel.”

    China is now the world’s top economic power. The US is not wary about this as it has already occurred. The US, like every waning empire, is increasingly using military force to buttress its position as top dog in the international pecking order. Yet it continues to lose influence and face on almost daily basis.

    Read More
  30. @bigbadwolf
    Both Turkey and Israel can sense the way the wind is changing. The US-centric world is in irrevocable decline. The only ones who don't see this are Americans living in the US and hence trapped in the false world created by US mass media. Even the Germans are now hedging their bets.

    Even the Germans are now hedging their bets.

    in what ways?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bigbadwolf
    Look at their ambivalent statement towards Erdo's Russia visit. Look at Germany signing up for membership of the AIIB. Look at the internal debates within Germany about a more robust and more independent foreign and military policy. They are looking at what they should do once US hegemony has gone. I see the outlines of German - Chinese - Russian axis.
  31. @Priss Factor
    From Gold Standard to Black Gold(petroleum) Standard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOuLkfJjtgQ

    loonie logic.

    basically, this dude’s argument = “It was better to smash Iraq, Libya, Syria, spending trillions of dollars, creating unfathomable human misery and shattered states and lives for generations to come, in order to oversee a slloooww decline of US dollar (which decline is extraordinarily precipitated by US spending trillions to smash Iraq, Libya, etc,), rather that experience a fast decline of US dollar.

    Doesn’t make sense.

    The dollar, and US as a nation with global respect and fair trading relationships could have been more secure and sound had US, beginning with George H W Bush in 1990, followed the advice of non-neocons like Flynt Leverett https://www.sia.psu.edu/faculty/leverett

    Thus, one has to assume that the smashing of Iraq, Libya, Syria etc. with resultant chaos was not an unforeseen sort-kinda mistake, it was a plan.

    In a chat at Wilson Center last year, Aaron David Miller (playing Netanyahu) and Yossi Alpher (channeling the outgoing foreign minister) discussed the mistakes US policymakers made re Syria, Iraq, Libya; noted that the chaos surrounding Israel was a benefit to Israel. In response to a question from Jane Harman, who runs the US taxpayer-funded Wilson Center, re Israeli support for military dictator Sisi in Egypt and that strategy’s impact on young Egyptians whose rights were being suppressed and denied by Sisi, Alpher said, “Of course it’s horrible that young Egyptians are having their human rights denied, and it will make them angry. Israel acts in its own interest, and it is in the interest of Israel to have Egypt controlled by a military dictator.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    Here is more on the same point: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/10/the-stench-of-raw-propaganda-paul-craig-roberts/
    "Perhaps everyone has already forgotten that when Washington’s plan to invade Syria was blocked by the UK Parliament and Russian diplomacy, Washington sent the forces used against Gaddafi in Libya to overthrow Assad in Syria where they emerged as ISIS and commit extraordinary atrocities.
    As ISIS was serving Washington’s purpose, Washington took no action against them. After a couple of years of death and destruction suffered by Syrians, the Russian government lost its patience and backed the Syrian Army with air power. Soon ISIS was defeated and on the run.
    Washington was caught in a bind. In Iraq Washington was fighting ISIS, because ISIS was overthrowing Washington’s puppet in Iraq. However, in Syria Washington was supporting ISIS, often characterizing ISIS as “moderates” fighting to bring democracy to Syria. Now that ISIS is on the verge of total defeat in Syria, Washington’s whores among the “experts” want Russia punished for blocking Washington’s overthrow of Syria."
    Roberts pays particular attention to David Satter, the presstitute and convenient ignoramus for the enthusiastically whoring Hudson Institute.
  32. @SolontoCroesus

    Even the Germans are now hedging their bets.
     
    in what ways?

    Look at their ambivalent statement towards Erdo’s Russia visit. Look at Germany signing up for membership of the AIIB. Look at the internal debates within Germany about a more robust and more independent foreign and military policy. They are looking at what they should do once US hegemony has gone. I see the outlines of German – Chinese – Russian axis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @mad1
    Germany is doubling the capacity of the Northstream pipeline from Russia, evidently they don't buy into the fantasy that we are going to somehow provide energy to the German economy.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    thank you.

    The brainwashing is wearing off, eh?

    When will Germans demand that US move out of Ramstein? After all, Germany needs lebensraum.
  33. mad1 says:
    @bigbadwolf
    Look at their ambivalent statement towards Erdo's Russia visit. Look at Germany signing up for membership of the AIIB. Look at the internal debates within Germany about a more robust and more independent foreign and military policy. They are looking at what they should do once US hegemony has gone. I see the outlines of German - Chinese - Russian axis.

    Germany is doubling the capacity of the Northstream pipeline from Russia, evidently they don’t buy into the fantasy that we are going to somehow provide energy to the German economy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bigbadwolf
    I agree. And the problem is the US has nothing to offer. Threats -- especially empty ones -- only go so far. The stick (or the threat of the stick) isn't enough -- a bit of carrot is needed as well. Which, alas, the US lacks.
  34. @bigbadwolf
    Look at their ambivalent statement towards Erdo's Russia visit. Look at Germany signing up for membership of the AIIB. Look at the internal debates within Germany about a more robust and more independent foreign and military policy. They are looking at what they should do once US hegemony has gone. I see the outlines of German - Chinese - Russian axis.

    thank you.

    The brainwashing is wearing off, eh?

    When will Germans demand that US move out of Ramstein? After all, Germany needs lebensraum.

    Read More
  35. Svigor says:

    it was rather the product of a vast conspiracy to take over the Turkish state that was decades in the making and might well have succeeded.

    I still find this a bit silly.

    They missed grabbing Erdogan by 45 minutes (or whatever it was). I guess in Turkey, planning something for decades and being 45 minutes late on go-day is normal. Turks (and Cockburn?) are impressed by this display of Turkish military precision?

    Read More
  36. Svigor says:

    I’d like to know why the USG would support a coup against Erdogan. Especially a poorly-executed one.

    Why is that? Why does everyone in Turkey –regardless of their politics or ethnicity–think the US had a hand in the coup?

    Well, it could be that the US gov’t had a hand in it, or it could be that everyone there thinks the US gov’t had a hand in everything. What the Turks think doesn’t really tell me much.

    The Obama administration is still uncertain of how to proceed mainly because no one had expected that Erdogan would break with Washington, purge his enemies, pursue rapprochement with Moscow, Tehran and Damascus, and throw a wrench in Uncle Sam’s plan for redrawing the map of the Middle East.

    That doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Read More
  37. @Priss Factor
    US is sure to bitch about this and go blah blah blah.

    But is Zionist-controlled US any better than Saddam Hussein?

    Hussein was a tyrant scum who had 100,000s of Kurds killed, many by poison gas attacks.
    Hussein did this to force his authority over them and to crush their defiance and will.

    US says this makes Hussein a monster.

    But what did US do in the 90s?

    To make Iraq obey and comply to American agenda, the US used sanctions to collectively harm and destroy entire populations.

    US didn't use poison gas against the Iraqis. Instead it used disease and starvation to crush Iraqi will. Like Hussein, US came to kill 100,000s of innocent people, mostly women and children.

    So, Zio-US is just as ruthless and heartless as Hussein.

    And now we have Hillary against Libya and Syria the spirit of IT TAKES A PILLAGE.

    Hollywood gave us some critical movies about US Middle East policy in the Bush yrs. But none in the Obama yrs. That is 'progressivism'. It is anti-war only under Republican regime. It is either pro-war or ignore-war under Democratic regime. Ever since the anti-war movement destroyed the Johnson presidency, the Progs have been very selective about the politics of anti-war agenda. Use it only for partisan purposes and damn the principles.

    You seem to forget, as do those who rail mindlessly against the recent agreement with Iran, that effective sanctions aren’t something involving just two countries: not even when the US is one of them.

    Read More
  38. @mad1
    Germany is doubling the capacity of the Northstream pipeline from Russia, evidently they don't buy into the fantasy that we are going to somehow provide energy to the German economy.

    I agree. And the problem is the US has nothing to offer. Threats — especially empty ones — only go so far. The stick (or the threat of the stick) isn’t enough — a bit of carrot is needed as well. Which, alas, the US lacks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Carrots and sticks is such a primitive way to conduct diplomacy, in addition to reflecting an extremely limited understanding of and respect for counter parties. For several years Hillary and Flynt Leverett had a blog at goingtotehran.com where a lot of Iranians as well as ex-pats were regulars. They were very well informed, could vanquish most American and British interlocutors in debate/argument, then close off with finesse and grace. They viewed the carrots and sticks meme somewhere between childish, insulting, and laugh-worthy, and indication of a poorly developed class of professional diplomats. Chas Freeman has spoken and written often in that same line: USA has neglected to develop and employ well-trained professional diplomats.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hdiX40xpvU

    In last week's dustup over the "ransom" paid to Iran a commenter on a NYTimes article said she "looked at some photos of Iran, and it looks like a surprisingly sophisticated place." jeezus krist. what did she expect -- pygmies dressed in loin cloths living in caves? Persians developed high culture very early, and their cultural pride is passed to the generations in their literature, art and architecture.

    MSM has thoroughly concatenated Iran-Saudi Arabia -terrorism - Wahhabi - ISIS etc. and it seems like very few American people have taken the trouble to expand their own knowledge base. Yes, the MSM and USA's elite class is leading the USA to ruin, but the American people are not doing much to demand better.
  39. Alden says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    Steven Simon, an Israel firster, said in a conference at Dartmouth in Fall 2014 that the Israel-US relationship was on the wane, that Israel did not need US any more. Israel can form relationships with China and India, in addition to Netanyahu's initiative toward Saudi Arabia, he argued.

    When Dennis Ross became the charter chairman of Israel's Jewish People's Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI) back in 2002, one of the first white papers produced was Schlomo Wald's assessment of he potential for an Israeli-China relationship in the coming event of US decline in superpower status.



    The Obama administration is dragging its feet on a new 10 year MOU that Israelis want, but little missies McCain and Graham, Trump's new BFFs -- are cheerleading for more US money for Israel and increasing Israeli infiltration into the deepest secrets of US military, intelligence and weaponry.

    American legislators MUST think very seriously about US handing money and secrets to Israel at a time when Israel is drawing closer to China. US is providing financial support to the regime that will destroy it, and that regime is Israel.


    1993: Israel Sells Arms to China, U. S. Says
    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/13/world/israel-sells-arms-to-china-us-says.html


    2013: Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military Technology to China
    http://www.defensetech.org/2013/12/24/report-israel-passes-u-s-military-technology-to-china/



    If US is wary of a rising China that will displace US as world's economic superpower, then the first thing US congress must do is stop funding Israel.

    I read the Los Angeles Jewish Journal all the time I can’t help it, free copies are distributed all over the neighborhood
    ( gotta keep an eye on the enemy)

    Anyway, for the last ten years there have been articles extolling the similarities between Chinese and Jewish culture. It was also pushing marriage between Chinese women and Jewish men a decade before the Zuckerbergs became famous

    I can’t comment on the rest of the article because I don’t believe anything written by a Cockburn

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "articles extolling the similarities between Chinese and Jewish culture" - It is the next big thing.

    The conquest of Asia by Jews is really a challenge. Asians are smart and have no complexes with respect to Jews. They are not Christians so this angle cannot be used against them. Also no guilt tripping about the Holocaust. On the other hand Chinese remember Opium Wars and who was behind it: Sassoons, Delanos. Asians could be the best allies in fight agains the Jews. But it won't happen. Jews are thinking way ahead of time.

    Chine must be tamed. Intermarriage is one way of infiltrating China. You know, Amy Chua the Tiger Mother. Slant eyed Jews need to be produced. Nobody knows they are Jewish. China will be tamed and conquered by the Jews only if Chinese elites betray the Chinese nation. The oligarchs of the West unite with the oligarchs of the East. Look up the names of people running geopolitical think-tanks and publications concerned with Asia.
  40. As Erdogan was clearly expecting a coup attempt some time soon and as it would be obvious to him that it would almost certainly occur when he was away from Istanbul (and Ankara) and that he would be targeted for capture or killing if he was in Turkey (or in a plane that could be shot down) some obvious questions arise.

    Did he rely on spies within the plot to ensure that he wouldn’t be caught on the hop (hence perhaps that 45 minutes that the plotters were too late). He would surely try to plant his own spies but, knowing that the spies might not be trusted with the vital details in real time he would have arranged sigint, wiretaps etc.

    Even so it seems plausible that the CIA or NSA and Russia’s corresponding agencies, to say nothing of Mossad, could have had some information about plotting in the Turkish armed forces, especially if they were keeping tabs on Gulen.

    What would they have done with it? How would such (certainly partial) information have been used? All sorts of scenarios can be envisaged depending on details known, certainty of info, protection of sources and methods and high level assessment of the importance of the outcome. Amongst the small but appreciable possibilities is a critical warning by Mossad – or Russia – or the US.

    Much as blowhards on UR like to shout certainties in our ears I haven’t learned anything from Whitney or Comments which closes off the field of uncertainty I have depicted above. (And let’s face it: despite its large budget it would hardly have been a prime CIA task to keep an eye on Turkish officers’ chatter).

    Read More
  41. @bigbadwolf
    I agree. And the problem is the US has nothing to offer. Threats -- especially empty ones -- only go so far. The stick (or the threat of the stick) isn't enough -- a bit of carrot is needed as well. Which, alas, the US lacks.

    Carrots and sticks is such a primitive way to conduct diplomacy, in addition to reflecting an extremely limited understanding of and respect for counter parties. For several years Hillary and Flynt Leverett had a blog at goingtotehran.com where a lot of Iranians as well as ex-pats were regulars. They were very well informed, could vanquish most American and British interlocutors in debate/argument, then close off with finesse and grace. They viewed the carrots and sticks meme somewhere between childish, insulting, and laugh-worthy, and indication of a poorly developed class of professional diplomats. Chas Freeman has spoken and written often in that same line: USA has neglected to develop and employ well-trained professional diplomats.

    In last week’s dustup over the “ransom” paid to Iran a commenter on a NYTimes article said she “looked at some photos of Iran, and it looks like a surprisingly sophisticated place.” jeezus krist. what did she expect — pygmies dressed in loin cloths living in caves? Persians developed high culture very early, and their cultural pride is passed to the generations in their literature, art and architecture.

    MSM has thoroughly concatenated Iran-Saudi Arabia -terrorism – Wahhabi – ISIS etc. and it seems like very few American people have taken the trouble to expand their own knowledge base. Yes, the MSM and USA’s elite class is leading the USA to ruin, but the American people are not doing much to demand better.

    Read More
  42. utu says:
    @Alden
    I read the Los Angeles Jewish Journal all the time I can't help it, free copies are distributed all over the neighborhood
    ( gotta keep an eye on the enemy)

    Anyway, for the last ten years there have been articles extolling the similarities between Chinese and Jewish culture. It was also pushing marriage between Chinese women and Jewish men a decade before the Zuckerbergs became famous

    I can't comment on the rest of the article because I don't believe anything written by a Cockburn

    “articles extolling the similarities between Chinese and Jewish culture” – It is the next big thing.

    The conquest of Asia by Jews is really a challenge. Asians are smart and have no complexes with respect to Jews. They are not Christians so this angle cannot be used against them. Also no guilt tripping about the Holocaust. On the other hand Chinese remember Opium Wars and who was behind it: Sassoons, Delanos. Asians could be the best allies in fight agains the Jews. But it won’t happen. Jews are thinking way ahead of time.

    Chine must be tamed. Intermarriage is one way of infiltrating China. You know, Amy Chua the Tiger Mother. Slant eyed Jews need to be produced. Nobody knows they are Jewish. China will be tamed and conquered by the Jews only if Chinese elites betray the Chinese nation. The oligarchs of the West unite with the oligarchs of the East. Look up the names of people running geopolitical think-tanks and publications concerned with Asia.

    Read More
  43. annamaria says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    loonie logic.

    basically, this dude's argument = "It was better to smash Iraq, Libya, Syria, spending trillions of dollars, creating unfathomable human misery and shattered states and lives for generations to come, in order to oversee a slloooww decline of US dollar (which decline is extraordinarily precipitated by US spending trillions to smash Iraq, Libya, etc,), rather that experience a fast decline of US dollar.

    Doesn't make sense.

    The dollar, and US as a nation with global respect and fair trading relationships could have been more secure and sound had US, beginning with George H W Bush in 1990, followed the advice of non-neocons like Flynt Leverett https://www.sia.psu.edu/faculty/leverett

    Thus, one has to assume that the smashing of Iraq, Libya, Syria etc. with resultant chaos was not an unforeseen sort-kinda mistake, it was a plan.

    In a chat at Wilson Center last year, Aaron David Miller (playing Netanyahu) and Yossi Alpher (channeling the outgoing foreign minister) discussed the mistakes US policymakers made re Syria, Iraq, Libya; noted that the chaos surrounding Israel was a benefit to Israel. In response to a question from Jane Harman, who runs the US taxpayer-funded Wilson Center, re Israeli support for military dictator Sisi in Egypt and that strategy's impact on young Egyptians whose rights were being suppressed and denied by Sisi, Alpher said, "Of course it's horrible that young Egyptians are having their human rights denied, and it will make them angry. Israel acts in its own interest, and it is in the interest of Israel to have Egypt controlled by a military dictator."

    Here is more on the same point: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/08/10/the-stench-of-raw-propaganda-paul-craig-roberts/
    “Perhaps everyone has already forgotten that when Washington’s plan to invade Syria was blocked by the UK Parliament and Russian diplomacy, Washington sent the forces used against Gaddafi in Libya to overthrow Assad in Syria where they emerged as ISIS and commit extraordinary atrocities.
    As ISIS was serving Washington’s purpose, Washington took no action against them. After a couple of years of death and destruction suffered by Syrians, the Russian government lost its patience and backed the Syrian Army with air power. Soon ISIS was defeated and on the run.
    Washington was caught in a bind. In Iraq Washington was fighting ISIS, because ISIS was overthrowing Washington’s puppet in Iraq. However, in Syria Washington was supporting ISIS, often characterizing ISIS as “moderates” fighting to bring democracy to Syria. Now that ISIS is on the verge of total defeat in Syria, Washington’s whores among the “experts” want Russia punished for blocking Washington’s overthrow of Syria.”
    Roberts pays particular attention to David Satter, the presstitute and convenient ignoramus for the enthusiastically whoring Hudson Institute.

    Read More
  44. annamaria says:

    Some amazing facts about Hudson Institute that employs David Sutter and other Eliot-Higgings-like experts (at least Higgins, a college dropout, had an experience of selling women’s underwear. Today Higgins presence graces the Atlantic Council, another sinecure for useful half-wits and weasels).
    Hudson Institute employs Douglas J. Feith (yes, the same Israel-firster that gave us Iraq) as
    Director of Center for National Security Strategies: http://www.hudson.org/experts
    This is how this war criminal is described on the Hudson Institute website: “Douglas J. Feith served as Under Secretary of Defense for Policy from July 2001 until August 2005. In that position, he helped devise the U.S. government’s strategy for the war on terrorism and contributed to policy for the Afghanistan and Iraq campaigns. Mr. Feith’s duties included managing the Defense Department’s international relations…”
    Do you remember Abu Ghraib? – Feith’s office was in charge of Iraq’s military prisons:
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×1108655. “General Tommy Franks called neo-con Douglas Feith,
    undersecretary of defense for policy, creator of the Pentagon Office of Special Plans, “the fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth.”
    Wikipedia: “In 2009, Feith became one of several Bush Administration officials under consideration for investigation of possible war crimes in a Spanish court, headed by Baltasar Garzón under claims of universal jurisdiction. The case had reportedly still been active as of 2011.”
    These qualifications made Feith irresistible for the board of Hudson Institute. http://www.hudson.org/about/leadership

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  45. Svigor says:

    Utu, Jews look nothing like east Asians. Looking like Europeans is their biggest advantage in the west. I suppose they can breed out to change this, but that would seem to be somewhat self-defeating.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    Mimicry was the key factor for Jewish conquest of he West. It won't work in Asia the same way but it is a foot in the door.
  46. utu says:
    @Svigor
    Utu, Jews look nothing like east Asians. Looking like Europeans is their biggest advantage in the west. I suppose they can breed out to change this, but that would seem to be somewhat self-defeating.

    Mimicry was the key factor for Jewish conquest of he West. It won’t work in Asia the same way but it is a foot in the door.

    Read More
  47. Ron says:

    I commend Mike Whitney, but I found Cockburn’s and the other quote at top, overblown.
    The pathetic failure shows no decades’ worth of planning, and it went off half-cocked, after being rumbled.
    I believe we are watching the falling out of criminals, as is per usual. The criminal Washington regime as usual stabbed the Ankara criminal in the back, pushing its ‘Little Kurdistan’ project while still expecting the kosher pasha to help them smash Syria.
    Amerika is always about propping up the Zionist Abomination, above all other priorities. Little Kurdistan is such a project. The Beltway satans are mostly neocons, doing the work of the Khazars. As is usual they stab their co-plotters in the back. Quel surpris!
    As John Helmer’s source close to the St. Petersburg talks show,

    http://johnhelmer.net/?p=9169

    the Ottomanist gangster has royally pissed off Vladimir Putin, with his pre-meet refusals on critical issues re Syria. This coup is not over.

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    • Replies: @pogohere
    Re: Helmer (and the interview with Erdogan linked there)

    Turkey is posturing. The Russian audience is not applauding. Or even smiling.
  48. MJMD says:

    If the CIA was behind this fiasco of a coup (a fitting follow-up to Venezuela 2002), how far has the Agency fallen from the days of Allen Dulles? I suppose that the Gulenists only got their shot to be in the driver’s seat because of Erdogan’s removal of more senior Kemalist officers starting in 2010. But if the CIA is running the man in Pennsylvania, they bet the wrong horse. A coup against Erdogan would have succeeded just a few years ago.

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  49. pogohere says: • Website
    @Ron
    I commend Mike Whitney, but I found Cockburn's and the other quote at top, overblown.
    The pathetic failure shows no decades' worth of planning, and it went off half-cocked, after being rumbled.
    I believe we are watching the falling out of criminals, as is per usual. The criminal Washington regime as usual stabbed the Ankara criminal in the back, pushing its 'Little Kurdistan' project while still expecting the kosher pasha to help them smash Syria.
    Amerika is always about propping up the Zionist Abomination, above all other priorities. Little Kurdistan is such a project. The Beltway satans are mostly neocons, doing the work of the Khazars. As is usual they stab their co-plotters in the back. Quel surpris!
    As John Helmer's source close to the St. Petersburg talks show,
    http://johnhelmer.net/?p=9169
    the Ottomanist gangster has royally pissed off Vladimir Putin, with his pre-meet refusals on critical issues re Syria. This coup is not over.

    Re: Helmer (and the interview with Erdogan linked there)

    Turkey is posturing. The Russian audience is not applauding. Or even smiling.

    Read More
    • Replies: @pogohere
    Helmer interviewed:

    Gorilla Radio with Chris Cook, John Helmer, Lynn Perrin, Janine Bandcroft Aug. 10, 2016

    first 23 min
    http://www.gorilla-radio.com/2...
  50. Joe Hill says:
    @Priss Factor
    There are so many competing narratives about what happened.

    Turkey might as well be called Murkey.

    I wonder if Saudi Royal Family is worried about the US.

    US shook hands with Gadaffi but had him deposed.

    US treated Erdogan as ally but have have worked with Gulen to try to overthrow him.

    US supported the military coup against democratically elected governments in Egypt and Ukraine.

    US supported the coup in Honduras.

    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/9/hillary-clinton-honduraslatinamericaforeignpolicy.html

    The Saudi family might be thinking... 'are we next?'

    They better be total bitches to the US cuz they might meet the same fate as the Gadfly.

    I wonder how it is that Uncle Sam’s vassals never figure out that doing a deal with Uncle Sam is signing one’s own death warrant.

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  51. Joe Hill says:

    So much speculation, and so little evidence!

    I follow world events quite close, and I have never seen the name “Gullen” mentioned until the coup attempt. But now “everyone” is an expert on this guy, and every article must mention him and his all-pervasive organization that seems to have sprung up from nowhere. The story that a charismatic leader suddenly appears on the global stage after secretly organizing a vast conspiratorial network from half-a-world away is very suspicious. I’m not at all sure that it passes the smell test.

    Personally, I would like to know much more about Gullen’s relationship with Erdogan. Why do so few articles mention that they were buddy-buddy until just three years ago? I suspect that one could easily construct a story that Erdogan used Gullen and his organization to climb to the top of the heap. Once he secured the presidency, the prime minister’s office, and the military, he no longer needed Gullen, and likely saw him as rival for power, so he had to go, along with any potential Gullen sympathizers and everyone else in Turkey who has ever been reported for possible disloyal or improper thoughts.

    Would such a story reflect reality? I certainly don’t know. There is so much disinformation and pure bullshit that I’m going to wait for someone to leak another DIA memo before I make up my mind.

    So in some ways it looks more like a palace coup, with Erdogan the winner. As for the Turks themselves, well, no one much cares about them anyway (How many banners in the West proclaimed “We Are All Turks” after various atrocities?), so whether they end up winners or losers doesn’t really matter to the West, does it?

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  52. pogohere says: • Website
    @pogohere
    Re: Helmer (and the interview with Erdogan linked there)

    Turkey is posturing. The Russian audience is not applauding. Or even smiling.

    Helmer interviewed:

    Gorilla Radio with Chris Cook, John Helmer, Lynn Perrin, Janine Bandcroft Aug. 10, 2016

    first 23 min

    http://www.gorilla-radio.com/2…

    Read More
  53. Solemnity says:

    The author is wrong.
    Russia and Turkey were friendly up until a few months ago and it did not change the face of Eurasia.
    Turkey is interested in pan-Turkism — Azerbaijan all the way thru Central Asia — which Russia totally opposes for obvious reasons.

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  54. […] evidence of Gülen's involvement before any judicial process can begin, full stop. But look outside the bubble, and you'll see it stated […]

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