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“It’s Uncle Sam who’s pushing us into this slaughter. And let’s be frank, many politicians in Ukraine are just following his orders.”

– Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko

The Minsk Ceasefire Protocol has very little chance of succeeding. In fact, the meeting between the warring parties was not convened to stop the violence as much as it was to buy time for the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) to retreat and regroup. In the last two weeks, the junta’s army has suffered “catastrophic” losses leaving President Petro Poroshenko with the choice of either calling for a truce or facing the unpleasant prospect of complete annihilation. Poroshenko wisely chose to withdraw under cover of the ceasefire agreement. But let’s not kid ourselves, Poroshenko only accepted that humiliation because he had no other choice. Once he gathers his forces and rearms, he’ll be back with a vengeance.

A recent survey found that 57 percent of the Ukrainian people oppose Poroshenko’s so-called “antiterror operation”. Even so, the fratricidal campaign will continue for the foreseeable future because it’s all part of Washington’s grand plan for the region. What the Obama administration is trying to do, is draw Russia into a costly and protracted conflagration in Ukraine to prove to its European allies that Russian President Vladimir Putin is a dangerous aggressor and a serious threat to global security. The US needs this justification to move ahead with its plan of establishing NATO forward-bases on Russia’s western border where they’ll pose an existential threat to Moscow’s survival. The puppet Poroshenko’s role in this bloody farce is to exacerbate the humanitarian catastrophe, crush the resistance, and try to provoke Putin into sending in the tanks. So far, the bumbling “Chocolate King” has only made matters worse by destroying his army and sabotaging US plans for NATO intervention. Obama’s frustration was apparent in the speech he gave at the NATO summit in Wales last weekend. Here’s a clip:

“Russia must stop its violations of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.” Russia’s “brazen assault” on Ukraine “challenges the most basic of principles of our international system – that borders cannot be redrawn at the barrel of a gun; that nations have the right to determine their own future. It undermines an international order where the rights of peoples and nations are upheld and can’t simply be taken away by brute force.”

Obama’s fulminations were meant to torpedo the ceasefire by poisoning the atmosphere and inflaming passions. Even while the negotiations were underway, the US and NATO were busy rattling sabers trying to derail the process. The summit in Wales was not so much a conference on regional defense as it was a platform for slinging mud at Russia and denouncing its “evil dictator” Putin. Like we said, Obama and Co. are getting frustrated by the fact that Putin has out maneuvered them at every turn. Here’s a clip from the New York Times with some details about the truce:

“The cease-fire agreement called for amnesty for all those who disarm and who did not commit serious crimes; the release of all hostages; the disbanding of militias; and the establishment of a 10-kilometer buffer zone (about six miles) along the Russian-Ukrainian border, with compliance overseen by international monitors.

It also points the way to a possible political solution to the conflict. Mr. Putin, insistent that Ukraine be tied to Russia instead of the West, has pressed for regional autonomy for the southeastern regions, while the Ukrainian government has so far been open only to the idea of decentralization.” (“A Cease-Fire in Ukraine”,New York Times).

Naturally, one would expect NATO and the US to tone down the rhetoric and postpone further escalation in order to show their support for the fragile ceasefire. But that hasn’t happened.

On Sunday, two NATO warships entered the Black Sea through the Bosporus joining French and US destroyers already located in the area. According to Itar Tass:

“The NATO ships’ crews will conduct the Sea Breeze exercises from September 8 to September 10. It is expected that along with the four abovementioned ships the drills will involve Turkey’s frigate Oruc Reis, Romania’s frigate Regele Ferdinand and Georgia’s patrol boat Sukhumi,” the source added.” (“Two NATO warships enter Black Sea – source“, Itar Tass)

The Sea Breeze exercises will be conducted at the same time as NATO military drills in Latvia that will involve more than “2,000 soldiers from nine different countries…(and which) ” simulate the deployment of NATO soldiers and equipment during a crisis situation.”

“We want to send a clear message to everyone who wants to threaten NATO, that it’s not a thing you should do,” General Hans-Lothar Domrose, commander of the NATO military command in Brunssum, Netherlands, told reporters.” (“NATO stages massive military drills in Latvia.”)

The drills have nothing to do protecting civilians from foreign aggression. They’re a blatant attempt to intimidate Putin and show that the western alliance is willing to risk a Third World War to achieve its objectives in Ukraine. The same could be said about NATO’s new Rapid Reaction Force, which is a 4,000-man combat group that will be deployable to any place in Europe within 48 hours. The new “Spearhead” force creates the dangerous precedent of a NATO standing army which will be used by the same reckless organization that assisted in the destruction of Serbia, Afghanistan and Libya. NATO’s interventions have been nearly as disastrous as those of the United States.

Aside from the additional troop deployments, warships to the Black Sea, and Rapid Reaction Force; we should not forget that the US Air Force deployed two B-2 stealth bombers to be stationed in east Europe earlier in the year. The B-2′s, which are capable of delivering nuclear weapons to their targets, are a clear message to Moscow that Washington will take whatever steps it deems necessary to defend its interests in Eurasia.

Also, Poroshenko announced on Friday that he reached an agreement with a number of western governments on the delivery of lethal weapons. (Officials from the US have since denied that they will send arms to Kiev.)

In any event, the pattern is clear : Escalate, escalate, escalate. The United States is determined to establish a NATO beachhead in Ukraine consistent with its plan to pivot to Asia. The alarming buildup of military assets in the Balkans and the Black Sea, as well as the steady drumbeat of anti-Russia propaganda in the media, suggests that Washington is embarking on a major operation that could explode into a full-blown war.

Europeans Oppose Arming Ukraine

Despite the nonstop demonization of Russia in the media, there’s no indication that the European people support the current policy in Ukraine. Check this out:

“The Journal du dimanche reported yesterday that the German Marshall Fund think-tank is preparing to release a poll showing that 81 percent of Frenchmen and 85 percent of Germans oppose arming the Ukrainian regime. The same poll found that in every European country except Poland, a majority of the population opposes the entry of Ukraine into either NATO or the European Union.”…..(“Fighting flares in eastern Ukraine despite ceasefire”, Johannes Stern and Alex Lantier, World Socialist Web Site)

Finally, after 13 years of continuous warfare, the people have lost their appetite for US-NATO adventurism. Maybe there’s reason for hope, after all.

SANCTIONS: No Proof Needed

On Monday, the EU stepped up its economic war on Moscow by announcing a forth round of sanctions that could go into effect as early as Thursday. (The sanctions have been temporarily delayed so EU members can judge the effectiveness of the ceasefire.) The new measures will be the most painful to date and are aimed primarily at “three major state-run oil companies – Rosneft, Transneft and Gazprom Neft, as well as several companies of the military industrial sector.” The objective is to inflict maximum damage on the Russian economy by cutting off access to the capital markets, pushing the economy into recession, and triggering political instability. (The ultimate goal is regime change.) Not surprisingly, there won’t be any sanctions on the gas sector, particularly, Gazprom, which is Europe’s biggest gas supplier. EU leaders have shown repeatedly that they are only too willing to stand on principal as long as their own interests aren’t effected.

It’s worth noting that the new sanctions will be imposed without any evidence of wrongdoing and without any legal process for Russia to defend itself. The US and EU cannot be bothered with anything as trivial as due process or the presumption of innocence, which are the cornerstones upon which English Law rests dating back 500 years. Simply put: Russia is guilty because, well, because we say so.

There’s only the slimmest chance that the ceasefire in Ukraine will last, mainly because Washington needs a war to achieve its broader strategic objectives. What Obama and his lieutenants really want is “to break up Russia, subjugate its economic space, and establish control over the resources of the giant Eurasian continent. They believe that this is the only way they can maintain their hegemony and beat China.” (Quote: Sergei Glaziev, Putin’s economic advisor) That means, there won’t be peace in Ukraine until Washington’s puppets in Kiev are removed and Ukrainian sovereignty is restored.

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Russia, Ukraine 
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  1. szopen says:

    eeeem… I am Polish. We literally begged USA to establish NATO bases in Poland for more than 20 years. We tried to convince world that Putin is not a reasonable partner, but threat to our security for years. No one has to convince us to anything. If USA had secret plan to finally follow our requests, then we would be excstatic.

    The same could be said abotu NATO special force. That’s lauded all over the press in Poland as the greatest idea ever, and that finalyl someone in NATO started to lsiten to our politicians, since WE asked for REAL guarantees for years.

  2. Kiza says:

    There is zero doubt that the crisis in Ukraine will continue. This has never been about Ukraine, then exclusively about Russia. Otherwise, the West and their Nazi puppets would have accepted autonomy that the East demanded after the coup organized by the US and EU. The West is desperate to draw Russia into the conflict, every false flag, every threat, every manipulation has been focused on this. As Mike says, the ultimate goal is division of Russia into fiefdoms ruled by oligarchs compliant with the wishes of the West, that is, return to feudalism for Russia and endless exploitation of resources by the US and EU bankrupts.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  3. @Kiza

    If you let him borrow your mind reading machine, Kazi will give you proof about this claim. He can read American policy-setters, minds but his curse is that he can’t prove what he sees.

    The numbers speak for themselves thousands of Russian soldiers in the Ukraine no US soldiers. How with these realities can USA be the aggressor. It can’t but Russia knows American involvement will doom its efforts at neo-Stalinist/ Chekist imperialism so it’s got to throw everything I can at preventing it. The Chekist and oligarchies that run Russia are desperate a recession is coming and all of sudden Putin’s palatial dachas and 700000 watch collection are going to give the Russian mob the idea that they are ruled by a Marie Aintoinette. Hundreds of Russian mothers want to know where their solider sons are but Kiza has no answer for that.

  4. noguerra says:
    @szopen

    What happened the last time Poland got guarantees?

  5. schmenz says:

    It might be in Russia’s interest to have a 24/7 live photographic surveillance of the US and French and other warships in the Black Sea and have them broadcast as a constant YouTube stream. Let the world see who is provoking whom and who fires the first shot.

  6. Davidski says: • Website

    Poland knows that guarantees from the west mean jack shit. That’s why it’s modernizing its army as fast as it can.

    Indeed, America won’t be putting any NATO bases in Poland, except some infrastructure for a quick reaction force, despite the fact that Poland has been asking for bases for years.

    So Whitney’s article is out of touch with reality.

  7. Kiza says:

    @ Sam Haysom

    My mind reading machine is called “Zbigniew Brzezinski”, what is your propaganda machine called? Maybe “Tony Abbott”? Or do you need a few lessons in history to understand that the Steppes of Ukraine have always been the staging ground for the armies attacking Moscow, especially for Hitler’s armies in WW2?

    It appears that you are deep into US and Australian regime propaganda about Russian soldiers and Putin’s wealth? Obviously, the 2,000 NATO soldiers in Western Ukraine now on “military drills” are the Angels of Freedom and Democracy and they do not count as a foreign army. And all those military supplies coming from your side to Western Ukrainians, this is all to help the side which is being bombarded by Eastern Ukrainians, right? Oh no, it is the other way around – to help your Nazis bombard the civilian population in revenge for the losses on the battlefield.

    FYI, it is only the Polish mercenaires and Azov Battalion Nazis who are the reliable fighters for your side. The Ukrainian army conscripts just run when the shooting starts. Perhaps this is why the NATO Angels of Peace will be moving towards the East. The typical Western strategy: scream about enemy’s aggression whilst preparing for yours, repositioning armaments and troops; then start a blitzkrieg and if you win, claim that this is the new reality on the ground now.

    The ultimate goal is as per my previous post – Ukraine is just the staging ground for pressure on Russia: economic strangulation, change of leadership and division of Russia into feudal fiefdoms ruled by oligarchs subservient to the US and EU. Then comes China’s turn. Oh those wet dreams of a global empire of a few financially and morally bankrupt Western countries!

  8. Why are you so worried about Russia’s interest. Isn’t that why Bill Kristol sucks because he’s worried about another nations’ interest.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  9. We shouldn’t be antagonizing Russia right now given the common interest with us in fighting ISIS.

  10. Kiza says:

    @ Sam Haysom

    Finally a reasonable (albite a rhetorical) question. Let me start from you first – you call yourself a paleocon. I have great respect for paleocons such as Buchanan, Taki, Matlock and people around amconmag.com where Ron Unz appears to originate from. But I note that the paleocons appear divided into two groups: pro-Russia-war and against-Russia-war. You obviously belong to the first. I believe that such people are neocons pretending to be paleocons.

    I believe in libertarians such as Ron Paul. All libertarians are decidedly against any war on Russia. I am not worried about Russia, I am worried about the West that I live in. War is a horrible substitute for a healthy economy and a progressive society. Most Americans view war in positive light because the US has prospered from WW2. But I cannot see a single positive thing from war. I also see that US and its satellites desperately want war as panacea for all the failings of their economies and their societies, ultimately the failings of leadership. Finally, cheat outside your country, then you will cheat inside your country. Drone outside the country, then you will drone inside as well. Wage a war outside, soon enough you will wage a war inside.

    In brief, I would prefer to see us trading with Russia and China instead of trying to blockade them and rule them or exploit them. But most of all, I would prefer to live in a country which thrives on healthy money (Austrian School of Economics), which nobody is printing in abandon.

    Comparing my concern about a war on Russia with Kristol’s concern for Israel’s interests is totally ridiculous.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  11. Hunsdon says:
    @Sam Haysom

    Because it’s a hundred years after WW1 started, it’s 70 years after the Soviet Union rolled the Nazis back from the same area, and because the Russian Federation has the world’s second largest nuclear arsenal, and the holy trinity of ICBMs, boomer submarines and intercontinental bombers, and because I don’t want the world to end in nuclear fire. Is that a good reason to worry about Russia’s interest?

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  12. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “The summit in Wales was not so much a conference on regional defense as it was a platform for slinging mud at Russia and denouncing its “evil dictator” Putin.”

    This is personal with Bathhouse Barry, our Sodomite in Chief. President Putin doesn’t celebrate Barry’s alternative lifestyle of man-to-man sodomy, in fact Russia doesn’t allow sodomites to advertise their repugnant deathstyle, and so President Putin must be punished so long as the Bathhouse Regime is in power. The belligerent rhetoric spewing from the Bathhouse Regime’s brown orifice will only cool off the moment President Putin stages weekly Pride [sic] parades through Red Square. That’s all this whole hot mess is about, and nothing more.

  13. “What Obama and his lieutenants really want is ‘to break up Russia, subjugate its economic space, and establish control over the resources of the giant Eurasian continent. They believe that this is the only way they can maintain their hegemony and beat China.’”

    If that’s what they truly believe, they are insane. Breaking up Russia would deliver its eastern half into Chinese hands.

  14. rod1963 says:

    The U.S. wants a war with Russia, if you look at the continual ratcheting up of economic sanctions and military moves and they don’t care if it wrecks Europe in the process, it’s quite apparent.

    Then you have stupid countries like Poland who are going out their way to make themselves a big fat target by turning themselves into puppets for the U.S. because Uncle Sam waves a few suitcases of money at the Polish leadership. And when your U.S. big brother pushes Putin into a corner I hope the Poles are happy and willing to pay the price in blood and freezing your ass in winter when push comes to shove. Because you will and don’t expect the U.S. to help because they can’t and won’t.

    Remember the U.S. is a ocean away and they have a habit of selling their allies out when it’s convenient to them. Remember Georgia, Noriega, Saddam, Murbarak and Gadaffi.

    You Europeans would be fools to trust the U.S. Because once you’ve outlived your usefulness you will be discarded.

    • Replies: @HA
  15. “If USA had secret plan to finally follow our requests, then we [Poles] would be excstatic.”

    But not Lech Walesa, architect and hero of Poland’s rebellion against the Soviet, who views current western policy as misguided and dangerous.

  16. conatus says:

    Aren’t we the original bad faith actors in this drama? Didn’t Clinton dishonor a ‘gentleman’s agreement” with Gorbachev, crafted during the reuniting of Germany. At the time the Russians were negotiating from a position of strength, they had 350,000 troops in Europe. Yet they agreed to let Germany reunite if we agreed NOT TO EXPAND NATO!
    How well have we honored our end of this bargain? I think there are ten more NATO members, all of whom bear a historical brief against the Russians.
    Talk about Janus-faced Capitalistas!

    Why did the US whine about the Monroe doctrine if there is no need of buffer states? I know Kerry declared it dead but we were squealing as late as the 90s. Does anyone seriously think we would let Al Qaeda take over Cuba?
    It is easy to make moral pronouncements when you have two huge oceans between you and everyone else, not so easy if they are right across some little river.

    Isn’t there a double standard going on here? We invoke the Monroe doctrine to keep Russian missiles from our borders but we can get so close via NATO, the Russian bear’s hairs tickle our nose?

    Remember the Monroe doctrine which Kennedy cited in 1962 over the Cuban Missile Crisis? Look at it from Putin’s point of view, this noose of NATO is tightening around Mother Russia, when Gorbachev had an implicit guarantee it wouldn’t.

    From a 2009 NYT article, by Mary Elise Sarotte, Enlarging Nato, Expanding Confusion, discussing the ‘gentleman’s agreement’ that Gorbachev understood as meaning no NATO expansion, applying to his agreeing to German reunification.

    NYT says “Did the United States betray Russia at the dawn of the post-cold war era? The short answer is no. Nothing legally binding emerged from the negotiations over German unification. In fact, in September 1990, an embattled Mr. Gorbachev signed the accords that allowed NATO to extend itself over the former East Germany in exchange for financial assistance from Bonn to Moscow. A longer answer, however, shows that there were mixed messages and diplomatic ambiguities.

    By acknowledging that there might be some substance to Russian grievances, the Obama administration would strengthen our relations with Moscow. Given that NATO enlargement has already taken place and efforts for further expansion are stalled, little would be lost with such an acknowledgment but much could be gained.” Unquote

    We, in the West, are the original bad faith actors, we come from a dishonorable world…and we act accordingly.

    • Replies: @Anon2
  17. michael says:

    Felix Dzerzhinsky 1st head of the Cheka was purportedly of POLISH nobility, so don’t flap your gums about USSR/RUSSIA and VLAD BAD . The US even tried to say Putin stole an NFL SUPERBOWL ring from a poor, frightend, JEWISH oligarch named Robert Kraft, WEAK! Study the HOLODOMOR which gets lost in the shadow of the holocaust.

  18. @Hunsdon

    No it just makes you Kristolite dual loyalty traitor. American interest first when dealing with Israel and when dealing with Russia. Hundson and Bill Kristol don’t put American interests first. Why does Hundson whine about Kristol again.

    I’ll care about Russian interests when they stop losing global decade long stand offs with us. Until then American interest first. Charles Lindbergh. Robert Taft. No Moscow-firsters. No neo-Reds.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  19. @Kiza

    This isn’t an argument. It’s question begging. No one is at all confused as to whether or not you support Russian interests and subordinate all other questions to the issue. It’s kind of embarrassing how transparent you are. Uh yea I support paleocons and their diametric opposite libertarians but only so long as they defer to Russian interests. In other words you didn’t answer the question you just restated your biases. In other words you are exactly what you criticize Kristol for being. You can’t just hand wave if away no one is honest about their biases.

    It’s frustrating isn’t getting hoisted with your own dual loyalty petard. Solutions easy though stop putting St. Petersberg first.

  20. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Bill Blizzard and his Men"] says:
    @Sam Haysom

    You either support the Irish Skank Samantha Powers’s and the mulato midget Susan Rices’s ongoing policy of exterminating the Ukranian Russian Population or you don’t…..most of us here don’t. And what’s wrong about being concerned with this particular Russian interest?….absolutely nothing.

    In the larger scheme of things you are a nut who with high probability is willing to risk thermonuclear war with Russia followed by permanent extinction of the Human Species.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  21. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Bill Blizzard and his Men"] says:
    @szopen

    You know… I’m really getting sick of you Poles. It’s bad enough that you flood into The US post-War Criminal Corporate Whore Ronnie Reagan era. But now you want to exterminate the Russian speaking Ukranian population and then impose psychopathic billionaire Oligarchs back on the Russian People for a second time. Last time that happened back during the Billy Clinton era….it caused a genocidal collapse of the Russian population.

    Moreover, why you are advocating will in the annihilation of thousands of Native Born White American from the American Heartland. Billions will be spent mass murdering Russians followed by the permanent extinction of The Human Species!!!

    • Replies: @HA
  22. These days I feel more ‘brotherhood’ with the Russians than I do with my fellow Americans. Is the spirit of ’76 stronger in the Russians than in the Americans in 2014? I wonder.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  23. @War for Blair Mountain

    I love it supporting American interests first like my hero Robert Taft means I support Samantha Powers. The name calling is almost loud enough to disguise the fact that you guys are no different than the Rosenbergs you just don’t have anything useful to offer. It make a you so mad that a traditional conservative doesn’t by into your Putin-fetishization. The real Bill Blizzard would despise you a) because he was a doer not a whiner but most importantly b) even with all his anger at the mine bosses he never forgot that he was an American. He didn’t go running off to Lenin and Comintern for help. Kristolite Moscow firsters disgust me.

  24. @Tom Not Terrific

    No. I mean are you genuinely confused. Do you really think they froze to death at Valley Forge in order to advance the cause of Orthodox Caesaropapism? Putin who rode to power with a false flag attack on an appartment building stands for a state controlled press, intimidated opposition, and neo-Soviet conquest and neo-Chekist domestic control. This isn’t even debatable. Why don’t you guys move to Russia I’m curious. Isn’t that what you always taunt the Kristols of the world with. Just move their. Plenty of undersexed, disillusioned Americans like Oswald have done it. You don’t even have to defect. All those beautiful women that won’t ignore you guys like they do in America, all that sweet sweet fuhrerprinzip. Sure there’s a bunch of immigration there too but if I’ve learned anything from you guys it’s that if Putin does it then it’s not bad anymore. Heck you guys wouldn’t even mind if Putin cuckholded you with one of those beautiful wives you guys are sure to snag.

  25. Kiza says:

    @ Sam Haysom

    It reads again as if I hit a raw nerve, this time by calling you a neocon. This is because the truth can hurt. No, you are wrong that paleocons and libertarians are diametrically opposite. Yes, you are right that neocons (you) and libertarians are diametrically opposite, and for that matter, neocons and paleocons too.

    Every political group in this world has/had quasi-members who do not belong there: Christopher Hitchens, Bernard-Henri Lévy (la gauche caviar) and so on. Your ne0-Trotskytes are not conservatives, you only deserve “neo” out of neoconservative.

    By trying to hurt Russia you will hurt EU through higher unemployment when it is already bad. Give it six months for the sanctions to start working their way through EU economies and I expect a smoking hot spring in EU, with street-riots and a few governments down and out, much sooner than your target Putin may come to be challenged by your Maidan-like NGOs. After MH17, what kind of false flag could you produce to continue hurting EU?

  26. @SamHaysom

    “Orthodox Caesaropapism?” Yikes! “Valley Forge.” George Washington, who was there, warned the USA against foreign entanglements and … what do we do? Our armies etc. are everywhere. “Foreign entanglements” is our middle name. We are more foreign entangled than all the other countries of the world are and for the entire history of the world. “Why don’t you guys move to Russia?” This is basically what a five year old child would say but anyway I can say this: Edward Snowden in America is in jail. Edward Snowden in Russia is … listen up very carefully now … free.

  27. HA says:
    @Sam Haysom

    You give these guys way too much credit. It’s not a matter of dual loyalty. Their loyalty is to Putin.

    That goes even for some of the American-born ones, though I don’t think anyone would confuse Kiza with one of those. They can elide their backstabbing by the fact that Obama and NATO are just race-replacers, or Sodomites, or Irish skanks, or whatever – oh yeah, and neocons. Let us never forget to mention neo-cons. Or neo-fascists and blitzkriegs — as I always say, the one true mark of a paleocon is that they see fascists under every bedspread and regard them as ever and always the greatest threat to mankind.

    But Russia on the other hand is a nation of proud people who are willing to fight to defend their own interests, and any nation that does that deserves acknowledgment and appreciation. Unless of course that nation is part of NATO. Or if it dares to cross Putin.

    At some point they might realize that it’s not just the Obamas and the race-replacers or whatever that they hate about the West. It is simply that it is populated with far too many backstabbers like themselves.

  28. HA says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    “I’m really getting sick of you Poles… you want to exterminate the Russian speaking Ukranian population and then impose psychopathic billionaire Oligarchs back on the Russian People for a second time. Last time that happened…it caused a genocidal collapse of the Russian population.”

    Based on the whatever it is that Bill has been reading, it is fairly clear that if the great peace-maker Putin wants to defend Russia and Russian speakers, he will have to keep rolling those “vacationing” tanks at least as far as Warsaw.

  29. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Bill Blizzard and his Men"] says:
    @Sam Haysom

    You are either for murdering Russian speaking Ukranians with the Irish Skank Samantha Powers’ violent psychopathic gangsters subsidized by US Tax $$$$$$…..billions of $$$$ just as US tax $$$$ subsidized Pol Pot….or you aren’t. Which one is it?

  30. TomB says:

    Well I’ll be darned: I would have thought that the Russian/Ukrainian business involved some complexity and competing considerations and here it turns out to be just a simple matter of name-calling and aspersion casting.

  31. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Bill Blizzard and His Men"] says:
    @TomB

    We’ll it is a straight forward easy to understand issue:do the Russian People have a right to defend themselves against the violent psychopaths funded by US tax payers…billions. The obvious answer is yes.

    The ongoing mass murder of Russian speaking Ukranians never would have occured were it not for the US tax payer subsidy of violent Ukranian psychopaths.

    Thoudands of Native Born White American Teenage Males from the economically distressed AMERICAN Heartland are going to end up in the US Military sent to the Ukraine and end up limbless…blind…face burn off….deaf… silently begging to be euthanized attached to a bedpan at Walter Reed Army Hospital. Go to google images and type in Smedley Butler..scan the photos…look for the photo of the WW1 basket case.

    The destruction of Native Born White Make teenagers are the cannon fodder for the late English Foriegner Christopher Hitchens’ kiddie laptop bomber brigade whose members include Sam Haysom.

  32. Hunsdon says:
    @Sam Haysom

    Sam Haysom: How is it in US interests to provoke a shooting war with Russia?

    I find it hilarious that you reference Charles Lindbergh and Robert Taft, who were both famously anti-interventionist, in support of your very interventionist position.

    Am I missing something here?

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  33. HA says:
    @rod1963

    “Then you have stupid countries like Poland who are going out their way to make themselves a big fat target…”

    You hear that, Poles? According to Putin’s backup singers shouting out for you to just-lay-back-and-enjoy-it, your efforts to resist Russia’s tender embraces only make you guilty of whatever it is Putin is planning for you. It’s your stupidity that is to blame. Sorry, baby — I wouldn’t have to beat you up if you had never tried getting that restraining order in the first place.

    But don’t worry. He may not roll the tanks as far as Warsaw. Maybe he’ll send a few of them back home to Katyn Forest – you know, to take care of any unfinished business.

    For any of the rest of you who were surprised to hear that Poland is indeed now in Putin’s cross-hairs, let’s just pretend you heard it here first.

  34. Oma says:

    When Putin talked Obama out of attacking Syria after the totally fabricated Sarin attack issue last year, the neocons in the U.S State Dept went berzerk….So when demonstrations in Kiev started they went into action in Kiev (Victoria Nuland and Sen John McCain) and fraternized not just with Ukrainian demonstrators but with the notorious Nazi goons Svoboda, a left over from WW2. A taped phone conversation between Ms.Nuland and the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine shows a detailed discussion on who should replace the then President…She then adds the infamours comment “F*ck the EU. These were covert activities in order to undermine President Obama. So now the Nazis are in control in Kiev and supported by Uncle Sam. There are photos of Sen. McCain fraternizing with member of ISIS which the U.S State Dept. has been funding…..
    President Putin inherited a totally destroyed country from the drunkard Yeltsin who allowed foreign investors and U.S.Corporation to rape the country. Putin put a halt to this wanton thievery and jailed a few of those oligarchs….Putin concentrated on building up infrastructure, creating jobs, exporting products worldwide and building relationships with his European neighbors. Russia now sits in on EU meetings, cannot vote, but they know what the EU does. There is a great deal of trust that has been build between Putin and the rest of the EU….Much of what the MSM claims regarding sanctions against Russia are meaningless. Angela Merkel,(from Eastrn Germany) speaks Russian fluently and speaks almost daily with Putin …Putin understands that the EU is being squeezed by Uncle Sam…..Polish leadership is simply bought as is their media. So anything hailing from them is nothing but U.S.propaganda.
    Washington’s interest is not Ukraine. It is Russia. It’s MO is to provoke Russia into action by invading Ukraine and then cause a whole conflagration because Russia does not accept U.S. hegemony…Putin being the Statesman is not falling for this and understands he has nothing to lose by sitting still and observe. So the U.S. propaganda is now in full swing…non-stop vilification none of which are backed up with any evidence….So now the U.S. has lost Ukraine…..BUT it will come to the assistance of the poor Syrians by bombing ISIS whom we have trained and funded…Right. Bombing another country without their consent is a war crime…..The world is watching.
    Washington consists of poorly informed politicians, not ONE diplomat amongst them. This country is run by an intelligence network like the Stasi in East Germany….worse than a police state.
    Russia enjoys having the second largest number of immigrants after the United States. Life is pleasant in Russia. Putin enjoys 89% popularity amongst his people.

    Oma survived Nazi occupation in the Netherlands and 3 fire bombings by the U.S. Army Air Corps supposedly with a faulty atlas that told them they were in Germany.
    War is terror and we have dispensed it with great enthusiasm around the globe none of which were a threat the the national security of the United States…..The greatest threat to U.S. national security is Sen.McCain, who should immediately be put on a leash, have is passport revoked, not be allowed to leave this country, nor have a camera or a microphone in his face. The man is dangerous.

    Americans are the least informed on world affairs in the world. That is so by design. It makes it easier on the propagandist/media to snow the masses.
    Interestingly, during Soviet times no one in Russia believed ONE WORD their MSM said. Today in America, 95% of Americans swallow the drivel the MSM feeds us. What does that say about us?

    A good anti-dote to the poisonous drivel provided by the MSM is AlJazeera and RT…..NOS.nl (Netherlands) is plain American propaganda translated into Dutch. Germans are waking up and say “Nein”……My crytal ball says this will be the end of NATO!!!

  35. Matra says:

    A lot of the posters here would be winners at Russian Apology Bingo

    The only thing missing is Carlos the non-English-speaking air traffic controller who was thrown out of Ukraine only to sneak back in and resume his supposed old job at a Kiev airport where he proved that it was Putin’s plane that they were after! lol

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  36. michael says:

    PURCHASED POLISH PRESS- how about Anne Applebaum of the WASHINGTON POST being the demur bride to the Polish Foreign Minister RADOSLAV SIKORSKI, stranger than fiction. Keep watching football America.

  37. Svigor says:

    eeeem… I am Polish. We literally begged

    You Poles are nothing if not good at fomenting wars between great powers on your behalf. You’d think you people would learn to just STFU and lay low, eventually, but nope.

  38. Hunsdon says:
    @Matra

    That’s right, Matra! When you cannot refute our arguments, impugn our character. Hey, it usually works.

  39. @Hunsdon

    You are missing a lot of things Hunsdon dignity, likely any children, from the looks of it your chance of every convincing Putin that you are the one who really really loves him, but in this case what you are missing is any evidence of my supporting intervention. The fifth column for the Third Rome has already started banging the war drums to invade Poland, but strangely absent from this war hysteria is anyone advocating America get involved. Like my idol Robert Taft I stand for American interests first and that means calling out those who have in classic leap-frogging loyalty patterns pledged their intellectually fealty to the Napoleonic Complex of the East. I refuse to let modern day Alger Hisses to openly advocate invasion of NATO allies like Poland without calling them out as the dual loyalty Rosenbergesque stooges that they are. This message board is especially revealing because already multiple posters have issued threats to Poland on behalf of Russia revealing the paleocon war lust. Only that war lust is pursued by advancing the interest of a foreign country. Robert Taft who despised Russian checkist and there fellow travelling cronies would have identified people like you as fifth columnist in a second. Braying for Russia to unleash the dogs of war is war lust all the same as the most aggressive neo-con. In your hatred of neo-cons you became just like them. I just hope God spares me the ignominy of having my utter disdain of paleocons convert me into one.

    I know you will immeditately try to change the subject but the fact remains I’m not the war-monger here. The St. Petersberg castrati amen chorus are the ones calling for war. My only interest is calling a thug a thug. Putin is a thug that needs to be called out for his thuggery. But like a chubby girl defending her first boyfriend you interpret even bald statements of fact as some kind of aggression.

    • Replies: @Hunsdon
  40. Svigor says:

    Mosyah Mas says:

    Why are you so worried about Russia’s interest. Isn’t that why Bill Kristol sucks because he’s worried about another nations’ interest.

    This is one of the Jews’ favorite tactics: Jews do dirt on an ethnic scale, then when an individual from another group cries foul and returns the favor, they say, “look, you just personally justified what Jews do on an ethnic scale, with your individual actions.” Of course, they never put it that way, because that makes it obvious what they’re doing. I mean, more obvious than usual.

    you call yourself a paleocon.

    Paleocons don’t point to anyone but a Jew who does it, then ignore the fact that Jews do it wholesale. Jews and their water boys use this tactic.

    No it just makes you Kristolite dual loyalty traitor. American interest first when dealing with Israel and when dealing with Russia. Hundson and Bill Kristol don’t put American interests first. Why does Hundson whine about Kristol again.

    I’ll care about Russian interests when they stop losing global decade long stand offs with us. Until then American interest first. Charles Lindbergh. Robert Taft. No Moscow-firsters. No neo-Reds.

    Then you should spend all of the time you allot to your America-first/no-dual-loyalty policy fighting the pro-Israeli power structure within the US, and none of it fighting the pro-Russia power structure within the US, because the former is all-powerful, and the latter is non-existent. Yet, something tells me you do the opposite. You’re like someone in Germany in 1936 claiming to oppose communism and National Socialism equally, but who spends all his time opposing communists; i.e., you’re a liar.

    Ooops, another liar exposed. They do love their particularism in universalist clothing, don’t they? Time to pick a new nom de plume, again.

  41. Svigor says:

    As far as I can tell, the “Russian tanks in Ukraine” thing is just a fig leaf for the fact that all of the rebels’ tanks have been captured from the Ukrainian army. If not, pics would be nice. I mean, several western journalists “personally witnessed” them crossing into Ukraine, and surely at least one of them had a cell phone with a camera…

    • Replies: @HA
  42. Hunsdon says:
    @Sam Haysom

    Wow, Sam, that’s a lot of invective, and very little substance.

    You say I like dignity, and children—on the basis of, exactly, what? Have I screamed? Have I exaggerated? Oh yes, the trope again that I must be in love with Putin. Do you have a basis for that, either? Or is this simply more invective? You say that, “The fifth column for the Third Rome has already started banging the war drums to invade Poland”—-could you provide us with a cite?

    You say that you “refuse to let modern day Alger Hisses to openly advocate invasion of NATO allies like Poland without calling them out as the dual loyalty Rosenbergesque stooges that they are. ” A two-fer! Any evidence? Has anyone here advocated the invasion of Poland? More particularly, have I? For your information and edification, I always thought Whittaker Chambers was probably right, and I prefer my Rosenbergs extra crispy—they were traitors to the United States.

    You say, “This message board is especially revealing because already multiple posters have issued threats to Poland on behalf of Russia revealing the paleocon war lust. ” Cite ’em if you’ve got ’em. I haven’t seen it—but I welcome the chance to see this paleocon war lust you keep talking about.

    You say, “Robert Taft who despised Russian checkist and there fellow travelling cronies would have identified people like you as fifth columnist in a second.” I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Communist Party of the United States—or any other Communist party. Oh, and it’s chekist, from the abbreviation Che-Ka, from the чрезвыча́йная коми́ссия (chrezvychaynaya komissiya, Emergency Commission), the forerunner to the NKVD, later KGB, and, yes, later, FSB.

    You say that “like a chubby girl defending her first boyfriend you interpret even bald statements of fact as some kind of aggression.”

    Sam, what color is the sky in your world?

  43. Davidski says:

    So let me get this straight, there are no Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine, but the place is just teeming with Polish mercenaries?

    These Polish mercenaries must be really awesome, since not a single one has been captured or killed yet.

    Wait, maybe they’re Polish Ninjas?

  44. HA says:
    @Svigor

    …pics would be nice.

    Did you bother doing a search at all? “Tanks” are a catch-all phrase designed to include heavy artillery as well as “vacationing” Russian soldiers, and even the Kremlin doesn’t deny the latter. You want to point out that the actual tanks, such as they are, are mostly seized Ukrainian ones, fine, but do not pretend you are not missing the point.

    http://aco.nato.int/new-satellite-imagery-exposes-russian-combat-troops-inside-ukraine.aspx

    As cited in:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/08/28/vladimir_putin_ramps_up_his_postmodern_non_invasion_invasion_of_ukraine.html

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/29/world/europe/ukraine-conflict.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LedeSum&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

    • Replies: @Anon2
  45. Anon2 says:
    @szopen

    You were afraid of Putin for more then 20 years??? That’s a revelation. Russia itself had him in power since 2000 (out of which 10 years as a President, check Wikipedia). But it’s ok to stay one jump ahead if you’re so eager to belong.

  46. Anon2 says:
    @HA

    Unfortunately, none of those images present sings “this is property of X”

    You can visit the very source of those images on the DigitalGlobe website. I did. The images presented on the NATO web site are not the original, but a cut and paste version. The original images are much larger and cover big area, including the border. This leaves us with a question, where are the pieces that show this machinery crossing the border? Unless, it somehow teleported itself.

  47. Anon2 says:
    @conatus

    “How well have we honored our end of this bargain? I think there are ten more NATO members”

    Come on! It’s just business, sell more weapons and get hold on more tax money. Weapons of mass distraction, nothing personal.

  48. Matra says:

    If not, pics would be nice.

    Because the Putin fellaters have been so open-minded thus far when presented with evidence of Russian lying! You will not accept as evidence anything unless Putin himself gives you the OK. The Russia Firsters have taken the template used by those who claim Jews do not have great influence in the US and are only ever victims and then applied said template on behalf of Russia and Putin. This gives them a chance to engage in the kind malevolent dissimulating and trolling that drives them crazy when used against them by their “anti-anti-semitic”/Israel Firster internet enemies. The typical American paleocon/WNist blogger has given up on having his own narrative and agenda and settled for being a useful idiot for anyone with a dispute (usually temporary) with Western elites and MSM. Sad.

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