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Trump Did NOT Convince Kim to Ditch His Nukes. China Did
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Donald Trump thinks his “maximum pressure” campaign persuaded North Korea to abandon its nuclear weapons program. But it’s a bunch of baloney. The reason Kim Jong-un is planning to denuclearize is because China adamantly opposes nuclear weapons on the peninsula. That’s the whole deal in a nutshell. China, who is North Korea’s biggest trading partner, gave Kim an ultimatum: Ditch the nukes or face long-term economic strangulation. Kim very wisely chose the former option, which is to say, he backed down.

The situation in North Korea is really quite bleak. Consider, for example, this recent piece in a United Nations periodical titled “The 5 most under-reported humanitarian crises that are happening right now”. Heading the list is this blurb on North Korea:

“….what has been drastically underreported in the last year is that unprecedented number of people who are going hungry. The UN estimates that 70 percent of the population, or 18 million people, are food-insecure and reliant on government aid. To make things worse, last year North Korea experienced its worst drought in 16 years, exacerbating an already dire food shortage. With tight control of its borders keeping out aid organizations and journalists, it’s almost impossible to capture how many are actually receiving the urgent food aid they need.” (U.N. Dispatch)

Unfortunately, famine and drought are just the tip of the iceberg. The economic sanctions have added a whole new layer to the North’s misery, in fact, they have brought the economy to its knees. Pyongyang might have been able to muddle through had Beijing not joined the international blockade, but once China agreed to participate, the North’s fate was sealed. In the last year, the DPRK’s currency has dropped precipitously, the country’s import-export trade has been slashed by half, and the battered economy has plunged into a deep slump. The problem is almost entirely attributable to China’s tightening sanctions regime which has effectively cut off the flow of capital and vital resources to the North. In order to grasp how overly dependent the DPRK is on China, take a look at this:

“Trade with China represents 57% of North Korea’s imports and 42% of its exports. …

In February 2017, China restricted all coal imports from North Korea until 2018. This is considered to be extremely harmful to the North Korean economy, as coal was the top export of the nation, and China was their top trading partner…

On 28 September 2017… China ordered all North Korean companies operating in China to cease operations within 120 days. By January 2018 customs statistics showed that trade between the two countries had fallen to the lowest level recorded.

Banking

On 7 May 2013, Bank of China, China’s biggest foreign exchange bank and other Chinese banks closed the account of North Korea’s main foreign exchange bank.

On 21 February 2016 China quietly ended financial support of North Korea without any media publicity. It is reported to be due to the fallout of relations between the two governments….”(Wikipedia)

China Sanctions Summary:

  1. China destroyed the North’s import and export trade, including the North’s primary export, coal.
  2. China shut down all the DPRK’s companies operating in China. (terminating the recycling of revenues back to the North.)
  3. China cut off access to foreign banking. (and, thus, foreign investment)
  4. China stopped providing any financial support for the North.

What other country could withstand this type of economic strangulation by its biggest trading partner?

None of this has anything to do with Trump’s “maximum pressure” campaign which really had no effect onKim’s decision at all. Denuclearization is all China’s doing. China put a gun to Kim’s head and simply waited for him to cave in. Which he did. He very wisely chose the path of least resistance: Capitulation. The question is: What did Kim get in return?Before we answer that, we need to understand that China-DPRK relations have been strained for more than a year, dating back to early 2017 when China joined the US effort to impose sanctions on the North. The Korean News agency sharply rebuked China for its disloyalty saying, “(China) is dancing to the tune of the US while defending its hostile behavior with excuses that (the sanctions) were not meant to hurt the North Korean people, but to check its nuclear program.”

While the North’s anger is understandable, it’s worth pointing out that Beijing has always opposed Kim’s nuclear weapons programs, in fact, in 2016, (long before bilateral relations soured) China’s Foreign Minister openly condemned the DPRK’s behavior saying, “We strongly urge the DPRK side to remain committed to its denuclearization commitment, and stop taking any actions that would make the situation worse.”

The warning was followed a year later by joint sanctions aimed at forcing Kim to give up his nukes. To Beijing’s credit, the goal was never to punish or humiliate the North, but to strengthen regional security by reducing access to nuclear weapons. Bottom line: China has acted responsibly throughout.

In March 2018, Kim made an unannounced visit to General Secretary Xi Jinping in Beijing. Kim was given the red carpet treatment for four days while the two leaders huddled and worked out their strategy for denuclearization in the context of a broader economic revitalization program aimed at integrating the peninsula with the rest of the continent.Very little is known about the 4-day confab in Beijing, but it’s obvious that Kim was encouraged to normalize relations with his counterpart (Moon Jae-in) in the South based on a firm commitment to decommission his nuclear weapons. It is no coincidence that the meeting between the two leaders and Kim’s dramatic reversal in policy took place just weeks after Kim met with the Chinese Premier. Clearly, China was the driving force behind Kim’s decision.

Critics of process think the North is engaged in an elaborate hoax that will amount to nothing, but that is probably not the case. Keep in mind, it is Beijing that is calling the shots not Kim. If China wants Kim to abandon his nukes, that’s probably what he will do. Of course, Kim would not go along with Beijing’s demands if he thought he might be putting his country at risk of a preemptive attack by the United States. Nor would he give up his nukes if he thought he was going to wind up like Mummar Gaddafi who was savagely skewered after he succumbed to US demands to surrender his WMD.

So how did China manage to convince Kim that he had nothing to worry about?

This question has not yet been fully answered, but we have to assume that China (and perhaps Russia) provided assurances to Kim that his country would be defended if attacked by the United States. Such guarantees would not be unprecedented, in fact, in 2017 Beijing stated clearly that no unprovoked attack by the US on the DPRK would go unanswered. Here’s part of the statement which appeared in Chinese state media:

“China should make it clear that if North Korea launches missiles that threaten U.S. soil first and the U.S. retaliates, China will stay neutral,” (but) “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so.”

“China opposes both nuclear proliferation and war in the Korean Peninsula. It will not encourage any side to stir up military conflict, and will firmly resist any side which wants to change the status quo of the areas where China’s interests are concerned.”

Beijing must have allayed Kim’s fears or he never would have agreed to denuclearize. But now that he feels protected, Kim appears to be eager to reconcile with his new friends in the South. Here’s what he said on Friday:

“I look forward to making the most of this opportunity so that we have the chance to heal the wounds between the North and the South…. I came here to put an end to the history of confrontation as well as to work shoulder to shoulder with you to tackle the obstacles between us. I came with the confidence that a brighter future awaits us.”

Kim is serious. He wants to restart the peace process and restore economic ties with the South. He formalized his commitment by signing a document that called for “the prohibition of the use of force in any form against each other”, “an end to the war” and”complete denuclearization.” Also, both leaders are committed to the gradual economic integration of the North and South via vital infrastructure projects that will strengthen popular support for the (eventual) reunification of the country. The importance of this joint commitment cannot be overstated. Kim is not simply giving up his nukes to placate China or ease sanctions, he is taking the first step on a path towards “balanced economic growth and shared prosperity”. Item 6 in the Panmunjeom Declaration”, which Kim Jong-un and South Korean President Moon Jae-in signed on Friday, lays it out in black and white:

“South and North Korea agreed to actively implement the projects previously agreed in the 2007 October 4 Declaration, in order to promote balanced economic growth and co-prosperity of the nation. As a first step, the two sides agreed to adopt practical steps towards the connection and modernization of the railways and roads on the eastern transportation corridor as well as between Seoul and Sinuiju for their utilization.”

The clause articulates the same vision for the future as an earlier integration plan that was drafted at the the Eastern Economic Forum (EEF) in Vladivostok on September 6-7, 2017. The meetings– which included North and South Korea, Japan, Russia and China– focused on drawing neighboring states into a common economic space with lowered trade barriers to promote development and prosperity. The strategy has been dubbed the Putin Plan and it is designed in a way that it can be easily linked to the Eurasian Union project and China’s strategic “Silk Road Economic Belt” project. The ultimate objective is to create a free-trade zone (“Greater Europe”)that extends from Lisbon to Vladivostok.

The plan is explained in greater detail in Gavan McCormick’s excellent article at The Asia-Pacific Journal titled “North Korea and a Rules-Based Order for the Indo-Pacific, East Asia, and the World”. The Putin Plan anticipates multiple Siberian oil and gas pipelines criss-crossing the two Koreas to railways and ports that are linked to Japan, China, the Middle East, South Asia, and Europe. Here’s an excerpt from the article:

“South Korea’s President Moon projected his understanding of this within the frame of what he called “Northeast Asia-plus,” which involved construction of “nine bridges of cooperation” (gas, railroads, ports, electricity, a northern sea route, shipbuilding, jobs, agriculture, and fisheries), embedding the Korean peninsula in the frame of the Russian and Chinese-led BRICS, the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and Shanghai Cooperation Organiziation (SCO) organizations, extending and consolidating those vast, China- and Russia-centred geo-political and economic groupings. Though billed as “economic,” and having no explicit “security” element, the Vladivostok conference was nevertheless one that would go a long way towards meeting North Korea’s security concerns and making redundant its nuclear and missile programs. …Unstated, but plainly crucial, North Korea would accept the security guarantee of the five (Japan included), refrain from any further nuclear or missile testing, shelve (“freeze”) its existing programs and gain its longed for “normalization” in the form of incorporation in regional groupings, the lifting of sanctions and normalized relations with its neighbor states, without surrender….

….Vladivostok might mark a first step towards a comprehensive, long overdue, post-Cold War re-think of regional relationships….” (“North Korea and a Rules-Based Order for the Indo-Pacific, East Asia, and the World”, Gavan McCormick, The Asia-Pacific Journal)

In my opinion, Kim Jong-un is prepared to liquidate his nuclear weapons stockpile in order to join this massive regional development project that will draw the continents closer together, create new centers of power and prosperity, undermine Washington’s self-aggrandizing “pivot to Asia” strategy, and strengthen a rules-based multi-polar world order that protects the sovereignty and rights of all its members. Thus, “denuclearization” conceals a tectonic shift in the global power structure.

Bravo, for that.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: China, Donald Trump, North Korea 
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  1. Anonymous[392] • Disclaimer says:

    Great article.

    I cant believe Trump supporters kept shouting Nobel as if Trump did anything for the peace process.

  2. Mike, I like generally appreciate your political commentary despite coming from the opposite side of the aisle, but who do you think ultimately leaned on the Chinese in order to make them drag the Norks in to compliance?

    Rhetorical question.

  3. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Seymour Buhtz

    but who do you think ultimately leaned on the Chinese in order to make them drag the Norks in to compliance?

    Exactly. China feared that if NK keeps making trouble, US might start a war in Asia… and then China would either have to lose NK to the US or intervene to save NK and end up fighting with the US, in which case the whole trade regimen between US and China collapses. Bad for business.

    Also, if NK keeps saber-rattling, it might lead to Japan getting nukes with blessing of the US. And even if Japan doesn’t get it, US can use NK as excuse to drive Japan to greater militarization.

    China put the pressure on NK, but I think China was somewhat surprised by events. They expected Kim to obey but Kim went the extra step and called for talks with the US and peace with SK. At this point, China feared losing NK to the other wide entirely. So, China then welcomed Kim to Beijing in an official visit. A way to keep him on the leash. This is also good for NK if it is to get rid of nukes. With good relations between two nations, NK can rely on Chinese backup if the US were to start a war on a denuclearized NK.

    • Replies: @Johnk
    , @James Forrestal
  4. Realist says:

    Nothing has happened yet.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  5. Randal says:

    The basic position seems sound here – that it was Chinese pressure that brought NK to its knees on the nuclear issue. This should come as no surprise to anyone, since China has (for obvious reasons) never liked the idea of its neighbour having nuclear weapons and it has always been Chinese refusal to come on board fully that has enabled the NKs to ride out past sanctions. From the Chinese pov, it’s clearly much preferable for the NKs to rely on Chinese protection rather than having nukes of their own – from the NK perspective this situation is obviously not ideal on a couple of counts. In the end, the Chinese seem to have chosen to force the NKs to buckle under US pressure.

    The interesting issue is, as the article notes, how the Chinese propose their neighbour should manage that process, without facing the seemingly inevitable Gaddafi fate. NK has nuclear weapons for a very good reason – that they are the only thing that deters US attack. Chinese guarantees are all very well, but from NK’s pov, what certainty can there be that China will live up to them in the event of a US attack, and what will China’s response be if there is no reasonable US response even in the face of effective surrender to the US’s supposed demands? The likes of John Bolton are not really interested in nuclear disarmament of NK per se, but merely pursue it as a means to the end of regime change.

    Presumably the plan is to generate an atmosphere of enthusiasm for a new rapprochement between North and South Korea that will make it difficult for the US to impose its maximalist objectives. It will be interesting to see if it works. I wonder if the NKs are thinking that they will go down the road a bit and when the US regime proves fixedly dedicated to regime change (as it likely will) and seeks to push ever more unreasonable demands for “verification” and de facto surrender on the NKs, they will see the Chinese return to a more supportive role.

    The alternative outcome perhaps intended by the Chinese is their own “regime change” in NK a few years down the line when they have restored and massively built up their own internal lines of influence in the country (as will inevitably be a result of economic reopening). The NKs are doubtless aware of this probability.

    As always, aggressive US regime policies of “regime change” and of fundamental untrustworthiness as an agreement partner force neutrals or semi-neutrals further into the arms of US rivals, for sheer survival. Competent as ever.

  6. To be honest, I can’t envision how Kim will still be alive 20 years from today. He’s hated by the Chinese, the Americans, the South Koreans, and probably his own people, and is now relinquishing the only things which provided any security to him, his nukes. Probably he overplayed his hand – he should’ve stayed with the ineffectual nuclear stockpile he had a few years ago, instead of aiming for a true ICBM deterrent. Now he won’t have any nuclear deterrent at all.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  7. Anon[283] • Disclaimer says:

    To Beijing’s credit, the goal was never to punish or humiliate the North, but to strengthen regional security by reducing access to nuclear weapons. Bottom line: China has acted responsibly throughout.

    .

    They have a very high disposition to follow their own interests responsibly indeed, and avoiding loud noise-making. That is praise-worthy.

    China’s goal was to seek China’s interests. Regular and legitimate, but why misname it?
    It’s as if, as soon as some true words are said about the USA, misnomers need to be used to talk of others.

  8. @Anonymous

    I cant believe Trump supporters kept shouting Nobel as if Trump did anything for the peace process.

    Let them shout all they want. The Chinese are being their usual, clever selves here by letting Trump & Co. publicly claim all the credit. This gives Trump a reason to buy into the peace deal by investing him in it psychologically. Very smart!

    The main problem here is that, whatever Trump & Friends may want, the DC establishment has no interest whatsoever in any lasting peace on the Korean Peninsula–never did. That’s why they never signed a peace treaty with the Norks, even before Pyong Yang proliferated 25 years ago.

    In other words, once Trump leaves office in 2021 or 2025, they can gin up some more instability on Korean Peninsula at will. You doubt me? This is exactly what happened 15 years ago during the Bush administration. Remember the ‘Sunshine Policy’ of the 90s, negotiated with Kim Jong Ill by Bill Richardson? Whatever happened to that? Well, once the Bushies were ensconced in power a few years later, they promptly declared N. Korea to be part of their ‘Axis of Evil’ and unilaterally suspended the agreement with Pyong Yang, which went right back to testing their missiles after several years of inactivity (as had been stipulated in the agreement). Peace problem solved!

    So that’s the bad news here: even if Trump reaches an agreement with Kim, there’s no guarantee it will long outlast his own administration.

    • Agree: Sean
  9. @Seymour Buhtz

    @Seymour Buhtz

    Precisely. Anyone with half a brain knows that the key to influencing North Korea is China. Trump deserves credit for convincing China to put pressure on North Korea. Compare the respect the Chinese give Trump to how they treated Obama. The last time Obama showed up in China they forced him to deplane from the back of Air Force One with no official reception.

    I’m ambivilant about Trump. Surely he’s better than HRC would have been, but that’s not too high a hurdle, is it? There can be no doubt however, that he’s convinced world leaders (Xi, Putin, Abe, Kim) that he is to be taken seriously. Fingers crossed he knows what to do with the increased influence he’s gaining for US foreign policy.

  10. Another solid piece from Whitney! He rarely disappoints.

    Just a few things mentioned in this article that I find surprising or puzzling:

    “….what has been drastically underreported in the last year is that unprecedented number of people who are going hungry. The UN estimates that 70 percent of the population, or 18 million people, are food-insecure and reliant on government aid.”

    I was under the impression that North Korea is communist. If so, wouldn’t that mean that a hundred percent of the population is “reliant on government aid”?

    In the last year, the DPRK’s currency has dropped precipitously …

    This I also found surprising. Can it be true that North Korea, with its state-planned economy, actually has a free-floating currency? Not even the Chinese have that, even though nearly half of their GDP is now private-sector. But the Norks do? Weird. I wonder how that works?

    The ultimate objective is to create a free-trade zone (“Greater Europe”)that extends from Lisbon to Vladivostok.

    That’s precisely what the DC establishment seeks to prevent at all costs. That’s why we should not get our hopes up here. Any agreement will probably turn out to be, at most, only a temporary hudna.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  11. Trump played a major role in this simply by not really doing anything of substance. Any other US President would have felt compelled to make real ultimatums, stand up to the Chinese, etc, and generally mess things up in order to establish American Hegemony. Trump has crippled the State Department and weakened our intelligence services. Trump is withdrawing from the world and that may not be a bad thing.

    • Replies: @JosephB
    , @anon
  12. @Seymour Buhtz

    I suppose I shouldn’t even reply to someone who uses such a precious pseudonym or uses dismissive neologisms like “Norks”, but what the hey, huh?

    What you dismissively call a rhetorical question is hardly that at all. It may be a foolish question (presuming your answer to it) but hardly rhetorical. Rather, I would say that China acted in China’s interest. That China’s interest may have coincided in some fashion with US interests is a serendipitous coincidence. Or perhaps in that chess game of diplomacy, China gently pushed the US into a position where serendipitous coincidences might just occur.

    While I do acknowledge that Donald Trump may just be a master of diplomacy himself, I doubt he leaned on China to do anything that China didn’t want to do.

    It’s like Br’er Rabbit and the briar patch. “Oh, please, please, don’t throw me in the briar patch, Br’er Fox. Please don’t throw me in the briar patch.”

    • Replies: @seeing-thru
  13. JosephB says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I concur with this comment. China was the key player, but publicly attacking China to restrain North Korea would have gotten nowhere. I don’t know if Trump’s belligerent approach with North Korea was calculated, but was a great play.

    Trump threatens North Korea –> China gets nervous about war –> China threatens North Korea –> North Korea drops nuke program

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @anon
  14. Trump made it clear the US had the South’s back. China doesn’t want an unhinged, dependent, and increasingly problematic North Korea firing missiles over Japan and igniting a theater-wide war in its backyard. So China tells Kim to get real and Kim, a fat youngster who inherited a dictatorship, comes to the table. Well-played all around. Trump seems to relish these multi-polar situations unlike his clumsy, ideologue predecessors. He cuts Gordian knots while the “experts” come up with a million justifications for the status quo.

    What other country could withstand this type of economic strangulation by its biggest trading partner?

    Well certainly not a juche socialist hermit state that’s outlived its usefulness to that partner.

    • Replies: @byrresheim
    , @Thirdeye
  15. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Actually, Trump is more deserving of the Nobel for the Syrian bombing campaign than for the Korean deal.

    He was under immense pressure to go all in on Syria by the Deep State and Jewish Power. His enemies concocted a chemical attack false flag to goad him into war. If he did nothing, he’d be called weak or puppet of Putin. So, he was forced to act. So, he made lots of noises about ‘animal Assad’. But he was secretly working to minimize the damage and let the whole thing blow over. And as a result, there was no escalation.

  16. Sean says:
    @JosephB

    And the Chinese have Trump drop his economic nationalism.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/calling-north-koreas-bluff-and-chinas-too/

    America is going to be hollowed out and end up facing a mega power China.

    • Replies: @Anon
  17. Svigor says:

    Trump’s just lucky!

  18. Svigor says:
    @Anonymous

    The bar’s pretty low now. Obama did nothing to earn his Nobel Peace Prize; Trump has done more to earn one.

  19. Svigor says:
    @Realist

    Sort of; more has happened than happened in 8 years of Hussein.

    But it’s all mere coincidence! Trump’s just lucky, I tell you! Lucky, lucky, lucky!!!

    • Replies: @CalDre
  20. Pressuring China through back channels to pressure N. Korea couldn’t have hurt. Besides, one bomb in the wrong spot contaminates an entire region clear to Japan IF the N.K’s are really messing about with nuclear. My thought was they set off conventional explosives in that mountain. Never saw rads measurements from inevitable leakage if those were real nukes.

    Threatening Iran again with pulling the nuclear deal Obama made might cut off missile transfers to North Korea, too. Deals, these are the deals that must be made.

    • Replies: @Sean
  21. Sean says:
    @Jim Christian

    The only real problem Decepticon China had with a country it had no traction with was Bannion/Trump 1.0′s American economic nationalism. China gave Trump a problem per Kim’s sudden nuke and missile progress.(China has form, it is known to have gave Pakistan missile parts) and, lo and behold, Trump needs China. The secret sell-the pass deal is to taking the West down the deindustrialisation river , but the pres diplomats and military industrial who have to face a China transformed into an unbeatable megapower are still children. Meanwhile the US is getting increasing angry with Russia. I am sure it is a coincidence that there are no profits to be made outsourcing and selling technology to Russia.

  22. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @JosephB

    Nobody has got nervous ever from the threat of a twitter. Trump’s bellicosity was matched both by numbers and intensity of Kim. China even told Trump “you attack NK We will attack you”

    No USA saw the sign and read the riot act and folded. It has agreed to meet and discuss before any decentralization.
    Trump’s actions could not be separated from past American positions. Trump had same position until now.

    • Replies: @JosephB
  23. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “The U.S. invasion of Iraq, based on lies, intended to impose regime change in 2003, and the U.S.-led destruction of Libya in 2011, after Gadafy had surrendered his weapons of mass destruction, surely lent the North Korean effort an extra degree of urgency. In 2017 no fewer than 16 missile tests were conducted, each producing western consternation and threats. But the North Koreans calmly proceeded, no doubt thinking that China’s historical role as Korea’s protector and the U.S. indebtedness to China would preclude a U.S. “preemptive attack” on DPRK facilities.

    So while Trump engaged in saber-rattling, the Dear Leader got on the phone and arranged for North Korean involvement in the PyongChang Olympics. Then a visit of over 100 musical performers from the south to the north. Then a high level visit of South Korean officials to Pyongyang, resulting in their delivery to Trump Kim’s personal invitation for a summit, which Trump spontaneously accepted (to the South Koreans’ relief and delight). Now this surprise summit at the DMZ, and the signing of a statement declaring the state of war between the two countries over and declaring the goal of the denuclearization of the peninsula through negotiation with China and the U.S.

    Touché. Not only the North Koreans but the Koreans in general are saying to Trump: back off, let us handle this, we are family here, we fear you and your threats of annihilation. We know you want to keep 23,000 of your troops in the south, and Kim has indicated his willingness to accept that if the joint military exercises are scaled back. The Chinese and Russians have advocated a trade: a nuclear freeze for suspension of the military exercises. South Korean popular opinion favors this.

    “A new history begins now,” wrote Kim in the Panmunjon guest book. CNN’s Korean consultant Gordan Chang calls it “breathtaking.” Some other respected commentator says “this is legacy-building for Trump” as though these events are mainly driven by Trump’s wild expressions of belligerence, whose efficacy we only now realize in the wake of the Koreans’ summit.”
    Gary Leupp http://www.counterpunch.com

  24. myself says:

    Just remember the Chinese modus operandi, for millennia.

    Always give honor, accolades and reputation to your competitor.

    It costs you nothing, and makes some rivals feel good. Meanwhile, you reap the real benefits – your empire expands, his contracts, that sort of thing.

    Would not be surprised if China doesn’t contradict Trump’s narrative that HE was responsible for the thaw. “When strong, pretend to be weak”.

    Or when winning, pretend to be losing. When serene, pretend to be terrified. That sort of thing.

    • Replies: @anon
  25. Trump basically insinuated he would launch a new Korean War if China didn’t ratchet up the pressure on North Korea.

    That China already didn’t care much for the Kims or their nukes of course made it much easier for China to pursue this course of action.

    Xi, Trump, Kim, and yes Dennis Rodman all deserve credit here.

    Should be a four-way joint Nobel Peace Prize if they see this through.

  26. @Anonymous

    Actually, I suspect that the Donald may have done something for the peace process, unwittingly of course.

    The Donald’s baloney, threats, and wholly unpredictable zigzagging has left many aghast and quite defenceless. And then, on top, are his tweets! God knows what Mr. Trump might tweet next. The statesmen of the world, once they came to realize that there is no defense against Mr. Trump and his tweets, pushed NK hard against the wall, with both Presidents Xi and Putin giving their biggest pushes ever, and voila, the peace process was born.

    So the Nobel peace prize goes to … the Donald!

  27. tankoktim says: • Website
    @Seymour Buhtz

    Lip service?

    Will Trump invite Kim to meet on AirForce One if they continue to be lost at sea over the venue?

    Will Kim find it uncomfortable onboard?

    ===========

    No event and nothing on earth happens by coincidence or accident…

    Time is for Wa, 和 harmony, there is no turning back to more conflicts or destruction. It is over. Game over.

    The world has now entered a New Age of Wa, 和 harmony, a mirror image of the the Great Harmony in the Divine spiritual world.

    There is no coincidence for events to move so fast on the Korean Peninsula for Wa harmony to manifest there.

    It will be an example, a model, for countries and regions around the world to emulate. It is Wa time.

    ========

    Wa harmony on the Korean Peninsula.

    If both North and South Korean nations want peace, and sign peace accord between them, and start to dismantle military installations at the 38th, withdraw forces, leading to denuclearisation, USA, Russia, China and of course Japan will find it hard to go against the two Korean nations’ actions and deeds to bring down tension and military provocations across the 38th Parallel.

    The UN will have to step in and the UN GA will pass resolutions to scale down the sanctions.

    It will all lead one step at a time to peace, Wa.

    USA cannot go against the UN GA when member countries start to act in support of the two Korean nations’ actions and deeds for Wa.

    It is clear Wa is in the hands of the two Korean nations, not in the hands of USA, China, Russia or Japan.

    Those who continue to go against Wa, create tensions and stir up conflicts will be in vain, and will suffer in grief.

    The time now is for Wa, not for going back to have more conflicts, destruction and unhappiness. It is over.

    =======

    USA should not be the main deal maker for Wa, harmony on the Korean Peninsula. USA is far across the Pacific.

    Should N. Korea and S. Korea themselves, with Russia and China [the four countries sharing common borders in North East Asia] get together [the Americans can come in later] to make efforts on Wa [harmony] and have denuclearisation on the Korean Peninsula?

    The four countries should make efforts to achieve:

    a] set target dates to start denuclearisation in N. Korea under UN and international nuclear experts involvement and supervision. It should include the end of chemical weapons and weapons of mass destruction too.

    b] N. Korea and S. Korea shall withdraw troops from the 38th Parallel under UN supervision;

    c] guarantee N-umbrella protection for N. Korea by Russia and China.

    d] sign peace agreement between N.Korea and S. Korea under UN auspices.

    e] lift UN sanctions on economic and trading blockage on N. Korea progressively.

    f] Russia and China to open their borders to trade with N. Korea, and provide economic aids to N. Korea.

    ==========

    When all the above are progressing according to schedule and deadline, the Americans can get involved and remove their troops progressively at S. Korean request and in conjunction with [b] above under UN supervision.

    The world superpowers and the UN shall provide economic aids to N. Korea under UN supervision when all the above have progressed according to schedules and plans.

  28. @Macon Richardson

    You accuse Trump of being a master of diplomacy? And you also link chess games and convoluted strategies to Mr. Trump’s simple name? Now I am scratching my simple head! Looks like there are two Donald Trumps: Trump of Twitter fame and the devourer of double hamburgers; and Trump the master diplomat and chess strategist. Now which Trump did I vote for?

  29. anon[119] • Disclaimer says:

    As usual, the understated East Asian did all the work, whitey takes all the credit:). Even the president of South Korea gave all the credit to Trump and said he deserved a Nobel peace price. At least Trump himself was classy enough to give credit to Xi and said he couldn’t have done it without his help.

    The fact that Kim agreed to denuclearize completely before he even met with Trump should tell you it wasn’t Trump who convinced him to do it.

    Of course, neither Xi nor Trump will ever get a Nobel Peace prize since it’s controlled by the libtard Norwegians, the same shit organization that gave a peace prize to Obama just for getting elected POTUS, then watched him go on to launch 2 wars and never asked for it back.

    Trump got the ball rolling and put the pressure on Xi, and Xi got the job done. Both deserve credit. The Nobel Peace Prize has zero credibility left after Obama. Neither needs one.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  30. anon[119] • Disclaimer says:
    @myself

    Actually, Trump gave a lot of credit to China. He tweeted this:

    Please do not forget the great help that my good friend, President Xi of China, has given to the United States, particularly at the Border of North Korea. Without him it would have been a much longer, tougher, process!

    • Replies: @CalDre
  31. I just hope Kim doesn’t cave in.

    Having friends like red China is worse than having enemies like the US.

    The US has once again, as in the fourties, furthered Chinese interests without even understanding what is going on.

    Anyway, Kim has led the way for other small nations, and even if he falls, others will rise, sooner rather than later. Had Tibet had nuclear weapons, or Sikkim for that matter, some unpleasantness might have been avoided.

    Starving a whole people to death is a crime. We have some very nice, beautifully courtrooms at Nürnberg, in case someone were interested in pursuing such crimes.

  32. @The Anti-Gnostic

    The hermit state is a hermit state because of US policies.

    Trump being part of the solution rather than the problem concerning North-Korean nuclear weapons notwithstanding, it are the US who paved the way for further Chinese expansion.

    Now the US even have to be grateful to China for colonizing another small country.

    Well done?

    Really well done?

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  33. Thirdeye says:
    @Seymour Buhtz

    The Chinese acted in their own interests, which include strengthening ties with ROK.

  34. Thirdeye says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Well certainly not a juche socialist hermit state that’s outlived its usefulness to that partner.

    Bingo. DPRK was useful to China when China was much weaker militarily and economically. China did not want to compete with a unified Korea but can handle it now. ROK has surpassed DPRK in importance to China.

  35. JosephB says:
    @anon

    Ok, so your hypothesis is that:
    1. Despite China having years to pull the rug out from North Korea, they just happened to pick shortly after Trump ratched up the talk of aggression.

    2. The president of South Korea is simply uninformed when he said Trump should get the Nobel prize for his efforts. https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/30/asia/south-korea-trump-nobel-prize-intl/index.html

    You’re certainly entitled to your own view of the world, but hopefully you’ll understand if others are skeptical.

  36. CalDre says:
    @Svigor

    The Orangutan finds himself at the right place at the right time. China began cracking down on N. Korea long before Trump was a candidate. Perhaps they had a great vision of Trump’s victory and decided to act early out of deference to the Grand Orangutan! lol.

    Fact is China does not want a nuclear N. Korea (as it will incentivize others to arm, particularly S. Korea and Japan, both of whom are quite capable, and China already has four nuclear neighbors).

    Best thing Trump can do is stay out of the way.

    • Replies: @Svigor
  37. CalDre says:
    @anon

    Actually, Trump gave a lot of credit to China.

    But he gave himself more credit. Without it being at all apparent, for what? So far he has done nothing, except agree maybe to remove US troops from S. Korea. Well that’s not gonna be your choice, Orangutan. Get them out or China, S. Korea and N. Korea will assist their departure.

  38. Joe Wong says:
    @Seymour Buhtz

    The most lethal weapon the American has is their big mouth loose cannon and the capability to claim credit where credit is not due.

    • Replies: @TT
  39. DCThrowback says: • Website
    @Seamus Padraig

    What if Trump announced it was time for US troops to leave South Korea and brought them all home?

    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig
  40. Anonymous[345] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seamus Padraig

    With regards to the North Korean Won, generally currencies which have a fixed exchange rate (such as the Chinese Yuan) have large foreign exchange reserves backing their value. In the case of North Korea, they did indeed have a fixed exchange rate at one point (pre-2001) being strapped for cash they couldn’t maintain that rate, so the won now trades at the same rate as on the black market.

  41. @byrresheim

    North Korea is a hermit kingdom because it was run by a succession of crazed socialists. Now, it’s become the property of Kim the Third who, like the rest of us, didn’t ask for the circumstances of his birth. He seems at least smart enough to realize that the socialist labor-camp model isn’t sustainable.

    A lot of countries had a hand in sustaining the Kims’ miserable regimes, giving them foreign aid without which they would have collapsed.

  42. tankoktim says:

    When Wa harmony arrives on the Korean Peninsula, the withdrawal of 26,000 American troops could mean some US$ savings.

    Will the UN change the UN Security Council and rename it as UN Security Council for Peace and encourage all countries to reduce military spending by 5% by 2030?

    5% will mean some US$680 billion in savings, which could be used for social programmes rather on military weapons, wars and conflicts.

    There will be more savings when Wa harmony is achieved around the world step by step starting from the Korean Peninsula.

    The benefits for all mankind will be enormous.

  43. Wikipix says:

    Let’s give a Nobel Peace Prize to a broken clock for bring accurate.

  44. Trump credited China in a tweet. South Korea’s foreign minister credited Trump. It didn’t happen when Obama was pres. There was no chance that the US would attack a denuclearized North Korea. Why should I read this article?

  45. @DCThrowback

    That’d be nice. But for the reasons I stated earlier, I doubt TPTB would ever let it happen, regardless of what Trump wanted.

  46. Bach says:

    The reason Kim Jong-un is planning to denuclearize is because China adamantly opposes nuclear weapons on the peninsula. That’s the whole deal in a nutshell. China, who is North Korea’s biggest trading partner, gave Kim an ultimatum: Ditch the nukes or face long-term economic strangulation. Kim very wisely chose the former option, which is to say, he backed down.

    It was NKorea’s strategy to denuke after achieving credible nuclear capability. The grand bargain with the US could only be possible from this standpoint. I don’t believe the Chinese twisted any arms. Both sides were probably in on the game.

    SKorea’s President Moon is the perfect complement to Kim Jong-un because he wants peace even more than the North. With the rise of Moon, a perfect momentary window appeared. It was incumbent on KJU to complete his nuclear testing. Then reach out to Moon and pursue detente full bore. With Moon/Kim in sentimental diplomatic embrace, that would make it nearly impossible for the US to interfere.

    NKorea’s best security guarantee comes from the South. The Siamese twins are tethered in life and death. Moon and KJU understand that reality. And the closer they stick together, the greater the chance both can stay alive.

    China and Russia have their roles but they are last resort. They’ll step in if war breaks out. Moon is the navigator here. International waters are treacherous.

    Fortunately for Moon/KJU, Trump is a guy that wants to deal. Unlike Pompeo, Bolton and other hawks, Trump will do a peace treaty. And Moon/KJU will give him all the credit. It’s shameless flattery but a good trade: Trump gets the Nobel, the Koreas finally get their peace after 70 years.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @PJ London
  47. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    A white man spewing taqiyyah for the benefit of the Chinese !!! Globalism and multiculturalism really are a gas !!!

  48. @Seymour Buhtz

    The deal is that US neocons gets what they want, namely an NK that cannot help Iran defend against Israel/US invasion, and China gets what it wants, namely a US that will show appreciation by dropping Trump’s campaign promise to get tough on its trade practices. So the bottom line, as always, is Do what’s best for Israel and screw the American voters.
    Trump gets an accomplishment to boast of, but as with the tax cut, it’s not one that he ran on but actually undermines his MAGA agenda.

  49. Hotshades says:

    The whole purpose of Kim denuclearizing is due to blowing off a complete mountain top. Now with the help of China & South Korea Kim is running with his tail between his legs because now he knows what’s at steak. Does he want China & South Korea to help clean up His NUCLEAR FALLOUT ? Mother Nature is Pissed Off!! Hear her roar!!!!

  50. Considering that trade increased by just over 20% I doubt the impact of sanctions matters much. More importantly is for China to avoid any major glitches in her long term plans. that glitch would include a collapse of North Korea — and given the long history of sanctions — I would be skeptical.

    I would believe that assurances already in place as a practical matter, that China would be the N. Korean umbrella made all the difference. In conjunction that there is another reality, Several thousand years of being a union is hard to sever in fifty years. And while these conversations have been going on for decades tepid though they were – the desire for reconciliation has always been present. And that desire may not lead to a single country – but more amiable relations.

    Pres Kim Jung Un is his father’s son. He is not his father. Each generation will hunger to honor their father — buy they will also seek to chart their own course, make their own way. I think this the case for President Moon.

    But for our role, I think that Pres trump’s choice to have a face to face is a monumental break from past US policy and deserves the notice. That choice may demonstrated more good will and even pressure on China, South Korea and North Korea for healthier relations.

    I acknowledge that what may be of benefit to them, may be a slight loss for the US in some ways. But if it;s nuclear reduction one wants — threats and sanctions were unlikely to get one there. Not given the record and the history.

  51. N Korea of course will never ditch nuclear bombs and long range missiles.
    Kim does not want to end as Saddam, Ghadaffi or Milosevitch.
    In the good old days deposed dictators retired in safety to their mansions in the South of France.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  52. Momus says:
    @Seymour Buhtz

    Exactly. Chinas’ leader saw Trump would indeed go in hard and leave them with huge problems. Whitney’s case is very weak; the economic arguments for NK’s disarming are motherhood statements.

  53. Did China sanctions have an effect? Of course, they did though some reports indicate the sanctions were porous for certain goods.

    Were China’s actions the main catalyst to bring NK to the negotiating table? Considering there is no love lost between the Chinese and Koreans, no, but it was a big factor.

    Should Trump take credit?

    Yes, but not in the way it is being portrayed domestically in the US. His talk of fire and fury and obliterating North Korea surely scared the bejesus out of South Korea, a wealthy country with twice the population and 40 times the GDP of the North. Why would a country as wealthy and financially secure, as say Switzerland, want to take a chance that Trump might actually bring a war to its front steps, even into its living room and effectively decimate the nation?

    The answer is there is no reason for South Korea to accept the danger and every reason for it to change its position and open real negotiations with the North, talks that include what we are now seeing, a Peace Treaty with reunification on the table.

    So, yes, Trump did it, in his own way, not mainly by influencing China or Kim, but by putting the fear into South Korea with the uncertainty that he might actually do what he says and destroy their country.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  54. TT says:
    @Bach

    It was NKorea’s strategy to denuke after achieving credible nuclear capability. The grand bargain with the US could only be possible from this standpoint. I don’t believe the Chinese twisted any arms. Both sides were probably in on the game

    Swiss educated Kim is not as naive, to believe another Libya agreement with his ass sodomized by bayonet or tear up by Trumps with Jp Abe presenting power point borrowed from Nethanyahoo. Prez Putin already make it so clear, NK rather eat grass than give up nuke that guaranteed their destruction like Libya or Iraq.

    All Potus failed to pressure NK in giving up nuke, so will Trump who get played by Kim like clown in world stage. Only when China cutoff all NK lifelines, which Prez Xi took by coordinating with Trumps, while clearly issued China stands of No Invasion or collapse of NK.

    Kim has no choice, to get strangle until weakness appear & lost all bargain chips, or play the cards timely holding China hand that alone can guaranteed its safety & prosperity with faith backed by Chinese Korean war history.

    To trust Russia will be no different from believing US, both have long history of reneged their pledges & throwing allies down the bus at slightest gain. So Kim didn’t visit Putin, learning from last Korea war history & Syria war now. Russia will never defend NK when US attack, except trying to occupy some border land like it did for Balkans war & Syria.

    With Moon/Kim in sentimental diplomatic embrace, that would make it nearly impossible for the US to interfere.

    Is that another naive thought? Kim JU father, grandfather all signed agreements with US Potus for denuke, under SK Prez Kim Da Zong & other more charismatic & popular strongman than faceless Moon. History is good textbook, US simply reneged when its purpose served. SK prez will be brought down if disobey, by corruption charge or color revolution.

    NKorea’s best security guarantee comes from the South. The Siamese twins are tethered in life and death. Moon and KJU understand that reality. And the closer they stick together, the greater the chance both can stay alive.

    China and Russia have their roles but they are last resort. They’ll step in if war breaks out. Moon is the navigator here. International waters are treacherous.

    If SK is under US mercy, how can it provide coverage for its northern brother?

    Russia will never risk a limb for anyone, not in history or Syria war now. Only China has proven itself as reliable ally in long history, such as both disastrous Korea & Vietnam-US wars, defending Asean against Vietnam-Soviet invasion, protecting Philippine from US-ISIS, Mauritius from US-India, Nepal from India aggression recently.

    Fortunately for Moon/KJU, Trump is a guy that wants to deal. Unlike Pompeo, Bolton and other hawks, Trump will do a peace treaty. And Moon/KJU will give him all the credit. It’s shameless flattery but a good trade: Trump gets the Nobel, the Koreas finally get their peace after 70 years.

    Hopeless. Trumps is juz a puppet taking TPTB order like his grand plan now to focus on Iran under Israel order. So are Pompeo & Bolton brought in to increase rhetoric after Mad Dog Mattis is not crazy enough for Syria war.

    Nobel prize is a toilet paper for any dissidents of FUKUS enemies, or FUKUS friends that can kill the most. If monstrous murderers like Kissinger & Obama can get, any dog will be more qualified. So Prez Xi, Kim, Moon are more than happy to give trumps the toilet paper while keeping the real prize- peace.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  55. TT says:
    @Joe Wong

    And that was also US most lethal weakness. Its think tanks competing for funding will publish every of their strategies publicly hoping some idiot Potus will pick up, like Obama’s pivot to AsiaP, & destroying 7 countries in 5yrs are well known.

    Everyone in WH & NSA are trying to leak like a broken sieve to sabotage each other, blocking any bills to deny opposition performance.

    In a democracy system, politicians need every undue credits to woo votes at all cost to win first, talk later. So any little donation & cheap credit like Nobel toilet prize will be able to exchange for a murkans limb to fight a war for Israel or give up its core interest like manufacturing hollow out. Democracy is itself biggest enemy of US & West, India, Brazil & world demise.

    China biggest strength lies on Central Power helmed by best proven men elected by 90M elite cccp members, able to plan & execute long term plan without worry of election. Spore LKY & PAP party was a mastery of that, which produced Spore of today with a pseudo democracy that suppressed all credible opposition with defamation lawsuits.

  56. @jilles dykstra

    But the argument is that China will guarantee Kim’s security just as we guarantee the NATO partners’.
    China has already announced it will not stand by and let US invade NK. Of course, China could change its mind, but why would it want to? They don’t want the US marauding on their doorstep.

  57. @reiner Tor

    I very much agree with you there. If the Chinese are really behind this, that may be their longer term aim – replace the Rocketeer with someone much more amenable to Chinese interests, preferably not one of the Kim dynasty, with a denuclearised North Korea to boot.

  58. @Joe Ureneck

    Certainly nothing as heavy as you suggest. Have a gander at the history of war rhetoric of fire and brimstone brought by US presidents —

    there’s nothing new or all that intimidating. Intimidation has not stopped the Chinese from engaging is dicey strategic maneuvers with US aircraft or navies. I just doubt that anyone can ignore fifty years of history and proclaim — aha, Pres Trump did it.

    It’s as empty a bowl as claiming that Pres. Reagan ended the cold war.

  59. @EliteCommInc.

    as for the fears of South Korea, nor hardly. They have lived with Presidential North Korean dire stoking rhetoric for quite some time and have always managed to steer away from conflict leading to all out war. But what has weighed heavily is the living history of severed ties, and broken relations. Despite polling data, the relational weight remains a burden on South Korea and they have almost as routine now sought to improve relations with their North Korea.

    The near misses to war have been plenty since the Korean conflict. But nothing was more frightening than the hot exchanges between North and South when North Korea launched a missile attack in a disputed territory. It was China and South Korea who kept cool heads and prevented all out war.

    I think many vastly underestimate the power of other states to act on their own behalf and interests. And I suspect that serious countries examining the consequence of our middle east engagements have been reconsidering US decision making and invincibility. The consequences of our invasions have many tentacles.

  60. Animal says:

    I disagree with this author. NK has had nukes for years and China did nothing. Along come Trump and now things get done/ What China fears is a Japan feeling threatened , changing their constitution and Japan getting nukes.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  61. @Seamus Padraig

    ” The chinese are being their usual clever selves”

    Yeah sure because as we all know that they, the Chinese, are endowed with the “cleverness” gene, with which of course the dumb, crude, ignorant Americans have not been blessed.

    Sort of like claiming that blacks are endowed with a “sports” gene, which then is positive and factual, and if someone is to state that they are also endowed with a “criminal” gene, this would then be a “racist” observation.

    The Chinese convinced NK to get rid of it’s nukes : No problem, seeing as DT convinced them, the Chinese, to then convince NK to ditch them, their nukes.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained us Army vet, and pro jazz artist.

  62. @TT

    ” Swiss educated Kim”

    Okay so in Switzerland is where normal human beings are then, through the otherworldly Swiss, superhuman perfessers, and the other-dimensional edumacation system, then elevated to the status of divinely wise and all-knowing : right?

    Myself , aside from my formal musical studies, having been unfortunate enough to have been “educated” in the uncultured, cretinous US of A, therefore this places me apparently at the bottom of the totem pole of enlightened folks.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

  63. @EliteCommInc.

    War rhetoric against an enemy certainly but not against a country (indirectly but not less disastrously) that has been sitting pretty for the past few decades unconcerned that its ally could actually start a war, ostensibly on its behalf, and upset the apple cart completely.

    South Korea did not want to a pawn in the game with the stakes so high while North Korea has been ready for talks for a long time. Now they have their weapons, no reason at all to delay.

    As far as Reagan, different claim altogether.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  64. @anon

    But we didn’t elect Trump to make peace with North Korea. They only hate us because they know we want to take out their regime, and we only want THAT because they send weapons to Israel’s enemy Iran. Trump could have just said “I have no interest in overthrowing you.”
    We elected Trump to get jobs back by ending unfair and unequal trade arrangements with China and Mexico. Now that China is going to bat for Trump over NK Trump will not be in a position to demand China change its trade practices. So the MAGA agenda is traded away in order to do something nice for Israel. As usual.

  65. Bliss says:

    Mike Whitney:

    Trump Did NOT Convince Kim to Ditch His Nukes. China Did

    Who convinced China to convince Kim to ditch his nukes? Have the decency to give credit where it’s due. Like the President of South Korea.

    This reminds me of Trump’s excellent State of the Union Address when the Democrats sat on their hands with frowns on their faces even when Trump spoke eloquently in support of issues that Democrats, more so than Republicans, also support.

    Political partisanship corrupts Democracy.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  66. Winston2 says:

    This deal has been on the table for 3+ years and was ignored by the USA.
    Kim’s development of H bombs and ICBMs are what forced the USA to the table.
    I suspect Kim’s new found power may have gone to his head and the Chinese and Russians
    had to rein him back in by going along with the sanctions.Both Russia and China were/are
    guarantors for the original deal, and US troops will have to leave.No way they could stay
    and the peninsular be nuke free.
    I hope it goes through, but fear the neocons will derail any deal.

  67. @Animal

    China is not afraid of Japan

  68. @Bliss

    Laughing —-

    democracy is built on partisanship. The partisanship that is destructive is that played for merely partisan reasons.

    I have supported Pres Trump before he even decided to run — and I don’t have any doubts that he has some hand in this. But what that is will be limited to what he controls and impacts. His willingness to have a conversation, expressed more than a year ago(?) was a huge signaling. Tough talk — nothing new. But the choice to have a face to face and treat North Korea as we would any other state — monumental.

  69. @Joe Ureneck

    No. US presidents have used rhetoric directly against North Korea and her leadership.

    I am unclear what the rest refers to.

    My position is that while Pres Reagan in tough talk and held the US to a firm stance — it was not anything all that unique to previous Presidents. He is not soley responsible for the end of the cold war. any more than Pres Trump can claim sole ownership for what is happening now.

  70. Lenny says:

    The fact the North Kores’s nuclear test site mountain has collapsed, and that Punggye-ri is only 100 km from China might also have motivated the Chinese to say “enough” to Kim.

  71. peterAUS says:

    The regime of a country not really on the sights of The Empire, in possession of some nuclear capability and could rely on some help from a superpower…….blinked.
    Interesting. Sort of.

    What does it make of the regime in Tehran I wonder….not.
    It’s definitely on the sights, has no nuclear weapons and as for help from a superpower I’d say its on much lover level.

    Doesn’t look good for mullahs.
    On a positive side they’ll see their maker sooner than later and enjoy all those things in Paradise.

  72. Johnk says:
    @Anon

    The U.S. wouldn’t dare start a war on the Korean peninsula. Tens of thousands would be killed. The U.S. would be hated for decades to come. Trump is too stupid to realize this, but the top generals aren’t. They run things, not him. Kim Jong Un has no fear of Trump, and he is not going to give up his nukes. The dance will continue long after Trump’s sorry ass is turfed out of office.

    • Replies: @TT
  73. ACDoty says:

    I imagine China wanted to avoid escalation with the US and the possibility that US nuclear weapons would be placed in SK if they are not there already.

  74. It’s remarkable that the author did not investigate why the Chinese started getting testy with North Korea in early 2017. Perhaps it did not suit his narrative, because it is known that Trump had pointed out that China was the key to reigning in North Korea since before he was elected–and he’s been leaning on China about it since early 2017 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/04/12/donald-trump-xi-jinping-china-north-korea/100363990/). We also know that China would be a big loser if war broke out on the Korean peninsula because China would get overrun by refugees from North Korea–which was probably one of the main motivators for them dealing with/giving aid to NK when NK really didn’t have much to offer in return, all this time.

    So I think that it is disingenuous to deny that Trump had any hand in this apparent turnaround by North Korea, particularly when no less than South Korean president Moon Jae-in recommended Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize for his involvement–and I suggest that few would disagree that the SK president knows more about what’s going on than we, social media pundits, do…

  75. Buddy Ray says:

    But why did China exert pressure? Because Trump is serious about a trade war. Trump is the key motivator to all of this. He does deserve the peace prize. Well, until he walks out on the Iran agreement he does.

  76. Anon[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Yeah, I remember that article from mr. Fingleton. Once again,he proved how well he understands east Asia. He is always at least one year ahead comparing to other analysts. And more or less,everything is quite true,almost prophetic,I would say

    • Replies: @Sean
  77. Sam J. says:
    @Seymour Buhtz

    Trump threatened to allow South Korea and Japan to build nuclear weapons. This caught the Chinese attention I bet.

  78. @Anon

    Also, if NK keeps saber-rattling, it might lead to Japan getting nukes with blessing of the US. And even if Japan doesn’t get it, US can use NK as excuse to drive Japan to greater militarization.

    That’s why Trump brought that up as a possibility:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-japan-south-korea-might-need-nuclear-weapons/

  79. @InconvenientTruth

    “South Korean president Moon Jae-in recommended Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize for his involvement–and I suggest that few would disagree that the SK president knows more about what’s going on than we, social media pundits, do…”

    It’s called political diplomatic politeness. And I would grant President some credit, especially for direct dialogue, and strong hand to negotiation is not unheard of, I am loathe to support any Nobel prizes here. Regardless how Mexican illegals and Hispanics jump on their chamelian band wagon to be off the hook for undermining US citizens.

    We are still in violation of others states sovereignty making violent chaos despite their not being a threat to the US or her allies. Now unfortunately the previous executive was awarded merely for getting elected with his intent on tamping down US regime change in the Middle East, they should have waited — he failed to deliver, and instead made it worse.

    And that he was beholden to Sec Clinton and her freinds in finance is no excuse.

  80. @InconvenientTruth

    “So I think that it is disingenuous to deny that Trump had any hand in this apparent turnaround by North Korea, particularly when no less than South Korean president Moon Jae-in recommended Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize for his involvement–and I suggest that few would disagree that the SK president knows more about what’s going on than we, social media pundits, do…”

    There are several things already at work that are coming together at the same time, and some are not in any way connected.

    1. The removal of Pres Park.

    2. The long time discussions with North Korea in some manner of reconciliation.

    3. The passing of Pres Kim Jung Il and the advent of his son

    4. The growth and opening of China into the global market place

    5. The election of Pres. Moon Jae-In

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/world/asia/moon-jae-in-president-south-korea.htmlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-39866696

    https://www.britannica.com/biography/Moon-Jae-In

    notes:
    a.see the dates // I agree, the president of S. Korea knows more — I would be
    interested in the source for your reference excuse my use of the NYT and the
    Atlantic
    b. it was not the threat of force it was the removal of the threat that’s called
    quid pro quo. You do this — I will that or you don’t do this — I will do that

    Now suppose all of what has transpired previous was theater deliberately created for this time, I would certainly grant the president more credit.

    I certainly grant that his position to direct talks is monumental.

  81. If we are going to play presidential peace prize roullette

    Then

    President Hoover

    President Nixon and President Carter

    are the only real players.

  82. TT says:
    @Johnk

    Tens of thousands death is in 1st day artillery exchange fire only.

    US Pentagon, Def Sec Mad Dog Mattis had preempted Trumps’ fantasy war with NK by publicly announcing: Tens of thousands death in 1st day artillery /rockets exchange. Est 10M casualties on conventional war alone without nuke, with Seoul & all US stationed troops within NK artillery range, Tokyo within missiles range. US can never afford to fight such war.

    And NK can detonate its nuke manually even without capability to launch by missiles. Juz set off at SK border & using submarines to give Jp & Guam some Fukushima. Such radiative is damaging enough.

    That is still on presumption of no intervention from China, which potential new USM AP top Gen juz announced China has already gained military dominant in SCS.

    All US bases & present in AP will be wipeout under China missile arsenal. Any counter attack to China mainland military bases with missiles fired from US mainland will trigger a full disastrous retaliation to US cities, escalating to nuke exchange.

    Thereafter, Russia is ready to join in to finish off if US is still breathing. US will be completely toasted/ fried.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Authenticjazzman
  83. Anon[400] • Disclaimer says:
    @TT

    Nice fantasy scenario. I like where your head is at .

    To recap : Artillery decimating all US and South Korean troops . NK detonating a nuke aboard a submarine to decimate the south with the added bonus of creating tsunamis and Fukashima style scenarios on Guam and Japan ( but no mention of any other countries that may be affected). Then radiation flooding US allies , but China is unaffected.

    Next China launches a missile barrage to wipe out any remaining survivors. If the US retaliated against this unprecedented barrage then China will wipe out major cities in the US mainland. There is zero response from the US or allies , save from grabbing ankles and crying.

    Do please wipe up your hands after you climax.

    • Replies: @TT
    , @TT
  84. TT says:
    @Anon

    Wanker, do read objectively before making foolish remark. That’s not my fantasy, but open military analyst report.

    Of course the whole region will engulf in radioactive by NK detonating nukes in open even without the disastrous US & China nuke exchange that will endanger the whole world.

    Mattis knew well why all past Potus never attempt to strike NK even when they not yet obtain nuke. So he is emphasizing these scenario to deter those empty headed politicians from fantasizing a surgical strike or Trumps fire & fury in believing murkans can destroyed NK & get away unscathed like Iraq war. He only need to tell what will happen to US & its allies, don’t need to encourage those fools how bad China will be.

    People like PeterAus still believe its viable, even come out with his own attack plan in saker’s previous article.

  85. TT says:
    @Anon

    Btw, if you ever read a little on military articles:

    1. Seoul & all US bases in SK are all within NK ww2 era heavy artillery range. The long range multi rocket launchers NK show case last year in its military parade will cover much further.

    2. Any NK open nuke detonation will engulf the whole region in radioactive cloud. SK, Jp & China can’t escape. Even somehow NK failed to put nuke warhead on missiles, they can still create disastrous mess as retaliation. It will also force to launch everything at first contact to avoid been disable.

    3. China has proven its determination in last Korea war that its not afraid to intervene US aggression at its border, even it had no nuke to counter US that time. Now with its completed AA/AD system, thousands of missiles, a/carrier killer missiles, 3Mt H-bombs nuke, nuke subs, its warning to intervene is beyond any doubt.

    All war games are to simulate realistic outcome, USM & SK army know what its like to attack NK. This make even infamous mad dog Mattis turn into dove in Pentagon. But stupid politicians in hubris of invincible USM don’t, hence they are testing Russia in every chance now. History proved when bear or dragon bites, its fatal.

    Now wanker, wipe clean your barrel & mouth before you comment.

    • Replies: @gwynedd1
  86. polistra says:

    It’s clear to anyone who has been following this story that the prime mover is South Korea, with considerable ‘flank support’ from Russia and China. SoKo has been working on this for decades, pushing and pulling and trying everything in the book. Russia has added carrots and China has added sticks.

    Trump slowed things down by encouraging Kim’s infantile side, and it looks like US will continue to ruin the agreement.

    Note that one of Russia’s carrots is already starting up: A road between Russia and NoKo, built by NoKo labor with Russian equipment. This will make it easier to set up commerce in NoKo, and commerce is the long-term cure.

  87. MDH says:

    Yeah, China is responsible for the change of events. Because China is N. Korea’s biggest trade partner I wonder what made them to decide NOW to speak a little louder. Could it be the sanctions President Trump imposed on everyone (including businesses and governments) who choose to do business with N. Korea? Could it be that China decided it wasn’t worth fighting the US on those sanctions and gave N. Korea a dose of reality? If China decides to not fight the US in Trumps new sanctions it means their trade with N. Korea would cease thereby stragulaing the N. Korean economy. It begs the question… what happened in the last year to suddenly make China more vocal about their disapproval of the N. Korean nuclear arms program? I mean, they haven’t ever supported it so what changed?

  88. Of course, but they also had their facility self-destruct.

    Religious logic that really is bad.

  89. gwynedd1 says:
    @Anonymous

    Typical fallacy of complex cause. If its your guy, then he gets credit for pointing to the moon with his finger despite all the engineering, resources and man power to land there. If its not then well it was one big group effort and he was just pointing his wee wee. All it takes to keep a car off the road is a few nuts and bolts.

    Now given that parts is parts….

    The one component that was recently replaced was the POTUS. Thus it sure seems like the missing part of the getting this show on the road had something to do with that.

  90. gwynedd1 says:
    @TT

    You do realize that that heavy artillery is a civilian threat, right? Even mobile artillery will not last long without air superiority.

    China going nuclear?

    https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Nuclearweaponswhohaswhat

    That looks like a bad idea. China has enough war heads , and means to deliver them to cause a lot of damage. The US has enough firepower to spare to raze their ghost towns.

    Why would China even bother.? Boots on the ground in North Korea is not going to happen with the US. And even if the US made any head way, China could support them as proxies. It would be a nightmare occupation.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @myself
    , @TT
  91. @TT

    Quite impressive how you have figured it all out by yourself, and you “know” precisely the outcome of said scenario.
    Of course an America hating fool such as yourself will allow no possibility for things to work out any other way, than your anti-american peanut brain will allow, and you obviously believe that all of the adversaries of the US are endowed with superhuman intelligence and forsight so as to bring about your prayed for destruction of your hated US, but you my friend are an idiot, and you have no clue as to what you are blathering about.
    I’m sure that you also believe that the Viet Cong “defeated” the US.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro jazz artist

    • Replies: @TT
  92. peterAUS says:
    @gwynedd1

    You do realize that that heavy artillery is a civilian threat, right? Even mobile artillery will not last long without air superiority.

    That “artillery belt” is NK fiction and SK/West boogeyman. It’s simply for public consumption.

    The reality is that, with proper warning/preparation, it’s pretty much useless.
    Payload simply can’t penetrate into even a cellar of a normal two storey house.

    The more of a problem are ballistic missiles.
    Still, if British were able to survive all that in WW2 for months, SK should for a day or two.
    That will be enough to destroy/force into hiding all that from the air.

    And, all that shelling/firing on the SK would just give better pretext to really hammer all that on the North. Including “Daisy Cutters”.
    Even better, a pretext for limited ground incursion into that “artillery belt”.

    But, before all that Chinese themselves, on a first hint that such trouble is brewing, would take out the Fat Boy and his cabal. Or help Americans do that.

    It’s almost sad to watch here all this explaining why the Fatso folded.
    Reeks of desperation.
    Another (false)”champion” of the fight against The Empire didn’t deliver.
    Fear not. Iran will.
    When it folds Russia will……

    The Hope.

  93. myself says:
    @gwynedd1

    China publicly only has some 400 strategic warheads, mostly on anywhere from 100 to 150 ICBMs. The force is increasingly on mobile (road and rail) launchers – pretty survivable, at least the increasing mobile fraction of the force.

    400 megaton-scale warheads delivered, or even 200, would basically destroy any continental-sized area (think China itself, or say the United States) and outright kill at least 50% of the population (closer to 75% for the more urban U.S.) These are just off the top of my head, apologies if the numbers are somewhat off (though I think they’re not off by too much). The United States and Russia have 4,000 and 4,500 warheads respectively. Because China’s arsenal is relatively small, all their warheads are targeted on cities, with none spared for hitting enemy nukes. A so-called “counter-value” strategy.
    (A “counter-force” strategy seeks to eliminate the enemy nukes via first-strike, and needs a great many more warheads. Such a strategy may also be unviable – FAR easier to reliably kill cities than deployed warheads.)

    (China is only now embarking on an expansion of its strategic nuclear arsenal, and the recent push for nuclear power generation in their country will make this easier. Not directly, but it will give them more experience and technology in Uranium enrichment.)

    In any case, China will not shoot first. The presently small arsenal is meant as credible deterrent. The U.S. can destroy China, while China can, for all practical purposes, also destroy the U.S. Both countries know the score.

    Analogy: We have a 12-gauge shotgun pointed at China’s chest, while they only have a .45 cal. handgun pointed at ours. The thing with nuclear war is, though, (as far as my layman understanding goes), that in essence, the “dead” nation still gets to shoot! And it cannot be prevented from doing so.

    If you shoot someone with a shotgun, and he shoots you with a “mere” handgun, you are both dead. But you leave a better-looking corpse – still undoubtedly a corpse, though. More importantly, you cannot intimidate someone with your powerful weapon, if he knows that his weaker weapon will kill you just as dead as he. That’s the nuclear balance for you.

    As a sidenote, why do you think Russia can’t threaten Britain or France with nukes? Britain and France have small arsenals, Russia has a huge arsenal, and the U.S. probably won’t commit suicide for the 2 mentioned countries (UK/France). America isn’t sacrificing itself for anyone else.

    But Russia knows Britain and France would retaliate, and Russia, even firing first, simply can’t prevent it. Therefore, Russia can’t intimidate Britain or France, at least not with nuclear weapons.

    Again, just the way nuclear deterrence works, for everyone. (As far as I know).

  94. @jim jones

    I am going to continue to play on the wrong side of history here.

    I was interested in yout link, but I only got a photo. I have read an article in which the South Lorean Foreign mister made that claim . But nothing from President Moon Kae In.

    Look I have supported this president through thick and thin. I certainly cannot support everything — and I won’t support anything that runs a foul of foul.

    To that, I find it hard pressed to consider anyone who called for torture as a candidate for a humanitarian award. That and far too many other questionable choices.

    But in the world of high IQ’s and I hate to mention it — all that is wrangling whites and wanna be whites — anything is possible.

    On it’s merits — I couldn’t defend it.

  95. RHink says:

    I think we need to focus on the goal rather than the credit. Does the pebble that starts an avalanche get the credit. The risks are real and it will be years before we know if the nukes are really gone. I have been reading a lot of posts on the subject and a few books on life inside North Korea. One problem is we are dealing with a leader who has a distorted view of reality. I read Escape from Camp 14 a few months ago and it confirms a lot of crazy stuff you read on the internet. I am reading a new fictional book now that talks about a lot of these issues. Chungdol Conflict. Both books are on Amazon. The last makes you really think about what is going on over there.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  96. Anonymous[385] • Disclaimer says:

    The author is flat-out wrong.

    If China had really been interested in STOPPING NK’s nukes, why did it not do so years and decades ago?

    Because China enjoyed NK scaring the US, SK, and Japan with nukes. That’s why.

    So the author is clearly wrong.

    What happened in the last year? Trump. He threatened and placed sanctions on NK, and this made China nervous because it could see a real calamity coming.

    Hence, China is doing something about it, finally — but we have to wait and see.

    I do not think that NK is serious. It has played this kind of game before.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  97. TT says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    You have juz exposed your IQ82 ability to lie shamelessly about your mensa & being a veteran. Get educated, duke.

    Before spewing your moronic comment like other anonymouse, pls understand these are your 4* general Mattis & other US officials disclosure of various USM realistic analysis reports, 2005 Atlantic wargaming conclusion, 2017 Military study, idiots.

    It reveal the hard facts that NK alone will inflict casualties unacceptable high in 10M range due to dense cities like Seoul & Tokyo are all within NK deeply dug in artillery & missiles firepower. NK also hold the nuke wild card.

    Also USM entire AsiaPac bases are within China missiles range readily to be destroyed once China intervene. Since US has no mean to repel Chinese overwhelming conventional power at its own backyard, the only option is a war ending with US total defeat & permanent retreat from Asia Pac, or a nuke exchange for mutual destruction to save face.

    A fool like you won’t understand is ok, at least foolish USM generals still not as stupid to plunge the world into hell fire. Its a catastrophic war US has never dare & can afford, worst than last Korea & Vietnam war combined, even Iran will be too much for LBGT US army running in high heeled boot. That’s why US only can brag on taking out weak countries like Granada & need its terrorists to attack Syria.

    For the sake of those fools like you fantasizing great invincible US military might, here’s a few US reports to sober up.

    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/352530-dems-ask-mattis-how-many-people-would-die-in-war-with-north-korea

    Officials and military experts have long said millions could die in a war between the United States and North Korea. Up to 100,000 people could die in the first days of the conflict if North Korea attacked Seoul, according to a 2005 war game published by The Atlantic.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/the-book-mattis-reads-to-be-prepared-for-war-with-north-korea/

    The campaign against ISIS in Iraq and Syria and so many campaigns before it have shown that aerial bombing only gets you so far; grubby, chaotic ground fighting, street by street and hilltop to hilltop, must finish the job. Against a foe as deeply dug in as the North Korean regime, that would be an epic effort, but Mattis, like Fehrenbach, seems to see no alternative.

    https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21735583-do-not-count-it-donald-trump-may-be-bluffing-over-pre-emptive-strike-north-korea

    In late 2016 Mr Obama’s National Security Council organised a war game, asking military, diplomatic and intelligence officials to simulate a mission to secure nuclear weapons in a North Korea tumbling into instability. Participants call the exercise deeply sobering, with so many American troops needed to secure the large number of nuclear sites that it could take months to build them up, losing any element of surprise, and raising seemingly insuperable questions about when to evacuate Americans from the region without triggering chaos. An unclassified letter sent by the Pentagon to Congress in November 2017 offered the assessment that only a ground invasion could find and secure all weapons sites. A senior American official recalls being asked by foreign counterparts why Mr Kim could not simply be killed. In reply he would point to the outside world’s dangerous lack of knowledge about what orders the leader’s death might trigger: “We seriously don’t know that there isn’t some sort of automatic doomsday process that pulls down the pillars of the temple.” The same official asked military colleagues for “horse’s head on the pillow” options that would terrify Mr Kim without triggering a full-scale response. “Nobody I spoke to in the military had an idea that could reliably thread the needle,” he says.

    Of course there are always fools like you here believing they know better than all these coward US generals, that NK colossal artillery fire belt is fake, NK tested 300+Kt nuke warheads are harmless, their missiles are good for fireworks, NK submarines are leaky, US airstrikes will decimal NK military with Kim & his millions army quake at sight of US bombers, China will never dare to intervene with its trade war looming.

    I’m sure that you also believe that the Viet Cong “defeated” the US.

    What else can i believe when your mighty USM shown its invincible power in nam war by scrambling off all its trembling boys from its “defeated” Vietcon in panick, leaving its puppet South Vietnam gov to perish. And Vietcon ruled Vietnam till this day, but.. but…fcuking US still win the war.

    Fakejazzman “Mensa” disqualified since 1973, hellborne trained US LBGT animal vet, and pro jazz conman

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  98. @Anonymous

    Unfortunately, this picture is far too short. The only shift made the election of Pres trump has been the open meeting. As for China’s role. There have been more pressure, but I doubt it was more than previously applied. In fact, when Pres. Trump made that comment last year after meeting with Chinese Pres. Xi, they openly mocked the reference. Now perhaps they were face saving , but I suspect they were not. It may even be more likely that China pointed to the Middle East and said don’t worry about the US, their hands are full and by the looks of it, despite being voted to reduce ME involvement, this president is going to do more. Let them get further embroiled in that mess as we Asians decide the future of Asia. Our defense is your defense.

    Furthermore considering the Long history of President Moon kae in’s work on formalizing relations with N. Korea, it would be dismissive of more than twenty years of labor on the subject.

    Pres. Trump certainly gets credit, but for how much and for what is not a closed question. And while I supported his bid for president, I give no applause to anyone who advocated torturing people and and not so subtle hints that police brutality is ok, they should do more of it.

    By the way, reducing the potential of conflicts for the US without sacrificing her security is one of the many jobs a president has.

  99. @RHink

    His view of reality is shaped by more than fifty years of the Us working overtime to to destroy North Korea. This for a nation that has remained in an official state of war since the end of the conflict. I am not defending communism.

    Furthermore, we had a denuclearization deal with North Korea that we reneged on because we assumed they were cheating. According to that lengthy article, we had no evidence that they were cheating, but we acted on the assumption. To this day, we have no evidence that they were cheating. But that was a signal that the US were not honest brokers. North Korea doesn’t need the examples of Iraq, Syria, Libya — they have their own experience — the others is mere confirmation.

    If at the end of the say we have to go to war with Russia, North Korea, or China so be it, but provoking a needless conflict doesn’t make much sense.

  100. TT says:
    @gwynedd1

    Yes, NK artillery will target Seoul 10M civilians & other cities to inflict max damage as retaliation to US/SK attack. So as long we don’t see the world evacuating their people from SK & Jp cities yet, with USM from its SK/Jp bases, all war shoutings are fake.

    Heavily dug in artillery are capable to resist normal aerial bombing, USM needs to drop plenty of bunker blasters. So a massive boots are required as USM report revealed which will trigger China direct intervention. If USM uses nuke on NK, whole region will be engulfed in radioactive, hence unacceptable to SK & Jp. But NK will use as retaliation.

    No one can win a ground war at China backyard. Any US boots in NK will meet massive PLA soldiers resistance. Korea & Vietnam war are examples. USM navy & bases will be defeated by massive missiles & aerial bombing launch from China inland bases. Any counter attack to China inland bases will get reciprocal strike on US cities, escalating fast.

    Once all USM bases destroyed, a/carriers & Navy sunk, cities damaged, the only option for US is to call a humiliating truce or a nuke exchange for mutual destruction.

    Is China nuke arsenal as rumoured only of 200s, without ability to wipe US? At least USM generals don’t think so. Its a open secret that China is the only one still operating mega tons H-bombs of diff design. One 3Mt H-bomb is capable of wiped out a huge area. According to Russia, enough for a France or Texas size. Even only ten warheads reached US is disastrous, with radioactive fall out for long time.

    US, UK, Fr, Soviet have all long stop H- bomb due to difficulty in maintaining. Even tactical nukes they operated need routine renewal, with Pentagon now pressing NNSA to renew nuke warheads at thrice NNSA capacity. Russia has declared renewal completion, with new H-bomb capable of taking out France/Texas in single warhead.

    As @myself pointed out, China nuke is for defensive purpose, hence all are targeting mega cities to inflict max damage as deterrence. I also pointed out previously to [email protected], in one China General Zhu Chenghu nuke war report, it surprisingly revealed China is so confident that it would survive on fighting multi fronts nuke war, mentioning with small part of its arsenal is sufficient to wipe US while simultaneously targeting other nuke attackers.

    So no one know exactly what’s China mix of nuke warheads, is it only the known 60 or all 200 are of H-bombs? How about another thousand of mobile tactical 50~500kt moving on their rails, missile warships, ship containers, submarines that can’t be tracked & fully destroyed?

    You only need to wipe enemy once to even the score, regardless how many times they can wipe you. Fukusind understand, without China consent, no countries at its border can be invaded. Myanmar, Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, NKorea are examples that survive in last 50yrs of FUKUS global aggression.

  101. @TT

    ” Scrambling off all its trembling boys”

    Listen you brainless cretin , my own ( deceased) brother spent a tour in Viet Nam and came home with a stiff leg and a bad heart. He experienced all of the “heroism” displayed by the “Viet Cong”, and he would tell you, in terms such as an idiot as yourself could understand, a thing or two about the “heroic” north Vietnamese.

    “And Viet Cong ruled Viet Nam till this day” Yeah with Mc Donalds and Burger King now all over the place and no evidence of Karl Marx to be found other than lip service.

    The US suffered 55, 000 fatalities and the Viet Cong : 2.5 million, and Viet Nam is now completely enthralled by the US “way of life”, whether you admit it or not.

    Look I consider you to be a rabid double-digit IQ, lunatic, and quoting Mark Twain :

    “Argue with a fool what do you get : two fools”.

    I really do not want to debate anything with you, as your stupidity turns my stomach.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army Vet, and pro jazz artist.

    • Replies: @TT
  102. Sean says:
    @Anon

    FT:

    German manufacturers are worried that tariffs on Chinese exports to the US will end up reducing demand for the German-made machines that are used in Chinese production. Fewer Chinese toys, for example, bought by US consumers means fewer German toymaking machines bought by Chinese

    Germany is the enemy within the West. Russia is a friend by comparison.

    • Replies: @myself
    , @TT
    , @Authenticjazzman
  103. myself says:
    @Sean

    Germany is NOT the enemy, what an unfounded sentiment.

    Germany’s responsibility is to Germans, same as ours is to Americans. National patriotism for us, and for ALL others as well.

  104. Sg says:

    Seriously one of the most ignorant articles I’ve read. Any pressure put on NK by China was because of the pressure that Trump put on China. The sanctions Trump laid down Both participating parties have said that Trump deserves credit for this, but why believe the words from the horses mouth when you make up a bunch of nonsense.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  105. Aj says:
    @Anonymous

    Denying the truth doesn’t make it so. Trump had everything to do with putting pressure on China and NK, something the last 4 presidents couldn’t. Nobel Prize should go to him.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  106. Svigor says:
    @CalDre

    Like I said, that goshdarn Trump’s Luck again!

    He’s like the real-world Forrest Gump!

  107. TT says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    Now you idiot do agree with your own US generals reports that murkans can never afford any war with countries like NK & Vietnam that determine to defend themselves? Syrians & Iranians are juz as formidable to defend against invaders to give you another nam war.

    Im sorry to hear your brother suffered from the cruel nam war done by your evil war criminals prez & lobby groups. I hope he died with great remorse in joining the nam war crimes & sincerely seek forgiveness from nam victims in his last moment.

    His little injury is nothing compare to the atrocities US committed to millions of innocent Vietnamese, even with inhuman biochem weapons Orange Agent & Napalm. Those involving nam war & every other US wars proudly are no hero but war criminals destined for hell without respite.

    And psychopath like you feel no guilt but proud of such murkans atrocity is a reason that why mass shootings & violent crimes are so rampage in US. Without lunatic like you, warmonger politicians won’t be elected term after term in murkans entire history filled with endless murderous wars, even grooming terrorists to invade others. There is no biggest evils like FUKUS.

    Imagine during US civil war, some powerful country like USofViet will to interfer in supporting of Southerners with puppet leader set up, as Vietcon think slavery is greatest ideology, they raised a false flag like Tonkin incident, bombed the entire northern US, raped all your women, killed millions brutally, spray millions of tons of Orange agent to contaminate vast area, and grilled murkans alive with napalm.

    Then fakejazzman brag & boast how glorious their people won the US war, killing them like pests in millions while only suffer 50,000. After 50yrs of peace, USofViet still goading USA to fight your neighbors with more wars, sell you weapons, make you eat junk food like Mcd & Burgerking, entrail your entire life with corrupted consumerism to slave you.

    Ooh…what a bizarre glorification for war criminals & corrupted capitalism by Fakejazzman “Mensa” disqualified retard. R.I.P. your mentaily is at most a high school drop out druggie making all murkans shameful here in your shameless bragging.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  108. TT says:
    @Sean

    What a foolish remark. Germany is the only sane country in West keeping its industry extremely strong without following capitalism blindly to hollow out. Its No1 power house in technology & high quality export, with incredible 1.5T export ~ 40% of GDP. US & Jp with much larger population only have 1.5T & 700B export respectively.

    Germans are one of most hardworking, sincere, honest and genius people that perform excellently in every aspects, which China has wisely partner with & embracing its Marxism.

    But murkan puppet Merkel has sold out & destroyed Germany by flooding it with rapefugees. Germans need to stand up & resist before too late.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Authenticjazzman
  109. Anon[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @TT

    Already too late for Germany. They have a negative birth rate and already muslims are majority in school age children. Add the massive immigration that will continue and huge welfare funded muslim birthrate and Germany is gone in 35 years , to be renamed ” Islamic republic of Germistan”.

    We will see the glory of a Jew free Germany. Im sure it will lead the world in every metric !!!

    • Replies: @TT
  110. @Aj

    Ohh good grief.

    while I voted Mr Trump, the idea of a Nobel prize for doing what every president has done for fifty years — is hardly noteworthy. The only noteworthy accomplishment has been to open direct talks.
    What I consider disqualifiers for any such award:

    1. wars violating the sovereignty of any state not a threat to the US or her allies

    2. advocating for more torture of prisoners of war or prisoners period.

    3. a history of advocating violations and citizens due process rights, including that of gun owners

    Absolutely nor. The last president should not have gotten one — the nobel committee seriously damaged their credibility in doing so — that even considering president Trump would make that award bankrupt.

  111. @TT

    South Vietnam was an internationally recognized sovereign state as was North Korea.

    It was not a civil war — but if it were you undermine your contention about interference because without the aide of:

    China, the Soviet Union and North Korea — the S. Vietnamese would obtained victory much sooner. Imagine that, someone complaining about interference all the while ging behind three foreign state —

    • Replies: @TT
  112. TT says:
    @Anon

    Sad thing, Germany always impress me among all countries beside China & Russia. Their people can always vote out Merkel & bring in a new party that do thing for their welfare, not for foreign deep states manipulating Germany.

    But democracy is dead, when deep states put their candidates for election, which ever you choose still serve their interest orbe removed. Look like China embracing of Marxism is better ideology that Germans should consider seriously.

    Germans are fighter race, they will not roll over for Germanistan. Hopefully no need another Hitler to appear for that, who can help the west & US to rid all the parasites. But Anglozionist hate to see a strong Germany that can lead the West to a prosperous peaceful world.

  113. TT says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Well we are living in the fog of misinformation. But i take the side of every nation should have their people to choose their own destiny. Whether its US, Russia or China, all shouldn’t intervene military but help seek peace for them

    From what i read, North Vietcon won the free election held by international body, but SViet don’t accept gracefully & declared independent state. That spark the civil or internal war. No? The US backed alliance & SViet gov prolong the war & created unnecessary deaths to keep capitalism trump communism. The rest are history.

    And NK decided to unite Korea with its communism ideology, it don’t warrant US invasion to wipe over 20% of their population off & prolong the division.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/north-korea-versus-the-united-states-who-are-the-demons/28342

    Anyhow, if Trumps could simply allow Korea to unite in peace without obstruction, that alone he deserves Nobel prize imo.

  114. @TT

    ” Without following capitalism blindly” : Germany

    And again you have no clue as to what you are blathering about, as Germany is the most hard-core capitalist country in Europe. In Germany debt-forgiveness is after thirty years, in the US seven years.
    There are not few professionals in Germany on wellfare after over-extending their credit and then unable to work themselves out of debt due to the inhumane german debt-forgiveness system. I knew a doctor, a co-worker of my first german wife, (she was a surgeon) who ended up in a homeless situation and lost his medical “Zulassung” : license due to his overloading himself with unrepayable debt.

    I was previously married to two german women, my first wife was a so-called “von”, an my second wife was an MD , my current (german) wife is a retired teacher, and I most certainly know as much or more about the internal workings of Germany than you do, even if you per-chance may be a german “besserwisser” yourself.
    My first wife’s mother had a picture of her uncle, a high-ranking officer standing next to AH, and she related to myself astounding stories of the internal working of Germany during the third-Reich.

    “Germans” are one of most hardworking, sincere, honest and genius people, that perform ecellently in every aspects” : Sounds like you are propagating the “Herrenmenschen” concept, the idea that Germans are/were blessed with above normal genetic endowment, and therefore “superior” to us lowly “Untermenschen”.
    As far a “genius” is concerned : every european country has their own share of said individuals : the British invented jet-propulsion and the railroad, and the frenchman Gustav Eifel was an inovator beyound comparison. Marconi, the radio innovator was Italian.

    Look your german “Herrenmenschen” attitude has caused enough bloodshed and suffering on this planet, and mankind has had enough of : ” Am deutschen Wesen soll the Welt genesen” : The world shall be healed through the German spirit.
    You are a unredeemable fool and a a shit-talker beyond hope.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

    • Replies: @TT
  115. @Sean

    ” Germany is the enemy within the west”

    You are right on the money, with this, for most folks, incomprehensible statement.

    The pure unadulterated hatred in Germany for the US is mind-boggling, and beyond this is the incredible demand of the german media that the US alter it’s gun laws to match the totally restrictive german code.
    They are also demanding that the US eliminate it’s electoral college, which caused their prefered candidate HC to lose the election.
    The megalomaniacal Germans apparently think that they had in fact won the war, and that they now can dictate the internal policies of the US.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” qualified since 1973, airborne trained US Army vet, and pro Jazz artist.

  116. @TT

    No th South Vietnamese were concerned about election fairness. The North and the Vietcong had engaged in numerous bombings and intimidation campaigns and the US concurred with S. Vietnam that under such conditions, a free and fair election could not be held –

    The election process was pushed back. It is often argued that the elections were postponed because Pres. Eisenhower did not think the their side could win. While that is speculation, there was no question that intimidation campaigns were an issue.

    The United states prolonged the war — the question of defending S,. Vietnam was not an easy one. Press. Johnson knew and expressed ahead time the issues of sending “young americans” to die for someone else’s issue was going to be a serious problem.
    That choice, despite its anti-communist framing — was humanitarian in every sense of the word.

    .

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  117. @EliteCommInc.

    Correction: (intended as a rhetorical question initially that I answered. Replaced by a simple statement – no deliberate confusion intended) The United states did not prolonged the war — the question of defending S. Vietnam was not an easy one.

    South Vietnam could at point dropped it’s self defense and agreed to unify with the North, The US despite all the hand ringing regarding its mystical powers of CIA covert ops — would never have been able to prevent it, any more than they could have forced the Iranians to engage a coup in 1953 —

    there’s a reason more than a million S. Vietnamese gave their lives defending South Vietnam. I suspect if not for the Chinese, North Korean and Soviet Support when the US left after gaining treaty assurances, that S. Vietnam would fought back the communists as had done previously.

    The history of Vietnam is loaded with incorrect information, incorrect interpretation of events, utter childish comprehension and discussion about the nature of warfare and an Everest high Mountain of guilt and guilt mongering.

    Once someone understands that it was the North Vietnamese and only the North Vietnamese that engaged in war, every time, The only question left to figure out is while US college students were screaming give peace a chance at the two governments that supported peace – which always included reunification if so agreed upon by the South Vietnamese people.

  118. @TT

    While i gave been an adamant supporter of Pres Trump on issues for which I voted for him to support. I am not going to be supporting any further erosion of the honor of nobel prizes.

    But your comment reflects some telling assumptions. The South Koreans have exercised restraint and no small amount pf forbearance to avoid war. Even when hostilities by the North Koreans were hostile such as the missile strikes in disputed territories. And they did so despite US proddings to go to war –

    South Korea is its own country. And they make choices that best support their interests. They have resisted at every turn the press for war by the US. They have in their way to the US routinely and politely expressed their view that war is a last resort, unless the North invades South Korea — their first choice is to avoid conflict. Because of the safe saving nature of the culture, they have offered an olive branch to the US by being very complimentary to Pres Trump as the head executive of their chief ally.

    Don’t confuse that with subservience —- President Trump as with every president before him has no magical powers over the will of the South Koreans —

    Another case in point — it is often said that the South Vietnamese were US puppets. But upon taking a look at the numerous problems between the executives of states in relation to the US — one learns immediately , no state regardless of US support is a puppet to much of anything.

    In fact, France, Germany, and Great Britain Denmark and other Europeans states could be called more puppets than any of the Asian, Middle East or African allies, save for Japan.

  119. PJ London says:
    @Bach

    My view is that SK realised that Trump was crazy enough to actually start a war.
    They have always known that in the event of hostility, 1 – 2 million SK citizens would die in the first few hours, but never seriously considered that the US would be the antagonist.
    Sk and NK have always wanted peace on an equitable basis, only the US has been the problem. Russia and China would have required guarantees from SK that US troops and missiles will not be placed on their borders. NK (and China – Russia) problem is that US abrogated the last (and all previous) agreements, what can they do to make sure that this one is not “re-negotiated ” as soon as it becomes convenient for the US to do so.
    We will see whether SK can control who and what and where the US run around, once peace is declared.
    To me the Peace prize goes to the people and athletes of both Koreas as they are determined to re-unify the country, regardless of Washington, Beijing or their own politicians.

    • Replies: @Bach
  120. TT says:
    @Authenticjazzman

    You sound very strange & incoherent. If you hate Germans so much, why would you married their women again & again for 3x? You may know alot about Germany, but thru your hatred color lens?

    I do have german family member but he died in accident. Extremely tough, determined, straight talk honest & capable guy, a typical old german.

    Im speaking from my personal opinion about German in my encounter. I never said they are gentle, soft & kind or what, they are a fighter race like Russian, but those sincere, honest, industrious & innovative traits are observed throughout last 100 yrs. Much better than most whites i come across.

    Yes many countries have their great inventions, but Germans are obviously the apex so far. Russian & Chinese may be as great if given similar condition.

    If Germany followed capitalist blindly hollowing out, US & UK are great examples. They know well their patriotic is their core strength, but Merkel sell out Germany.

  121. Sad sad sad sad sad sad state of affairs when the Chinese are pushing Kim to give up his nukes when he should be allowed to pursue and improve their own missile technology and perhaps both countries can share the results of their research. And Kim is a complete idiot to really trust the US to keep its word to not invade. Gaddafi of Libya also gave up his nuclear arsenal to normalize relations with the US only to be sodomized by the US backed Al-Qaida rebels with a knife And Saddam of Iraq before him…..

    • Replies: @TT
    , @EliteCommInc.
  122. TJ says:

    Kim is an idiot to trust US to not invade and give in his nukes. And Chinese are idiots to get him to do so. They should work together and both should share knowledge and culmination of their research with each other, simultaneously aiming to seek peace with the South Korea and further economic cooperation.

  123. TT says:
    @mr_mystique

    Simple, Kim has China as backing, Gaddafi had none. Saddam kicked out UKUS to give all oil to France Totals & Infrastructure to Russia in return for guarantee of protection for trading in euro. But when US striked, Fr &:Russia do nothing. Fr Prez Chirac publicly scolded & slam away Bush hand during UN meeting, soon he lost his Prez.

    China want nuke free Korea & Jp. NK has no choice, all its trade, energy, financial transaction have to depend on China, so the peace talk is well time by Kim. Let’s see what is the outcome.

    Up to 1990′s US still have nuke in SK to aim at Soviet & China, its so hard to get it removed. US might use NK as excuse to install nuke, like Thaad. Jp is always trying to get hold of nuke, Fukushima explosion is more than simple melt down, some research is going on there. The world incl Russia experts offer to heincompetence rejected, rather do it alone with incompetent contractors, allowing tonnes of radioactive water to contaminate soil & ocean. Globalresearch had an article on this.

    China openly complaint about US loaning extraordinary huge amount of weapon grade material to Jp under research purpose for many years. Jp boasted it could make complete nuke arsena within a year. Obama got angry for the exposure & chided China, but took it back eventually.

    Its a joke that China needs to exchange with NK obsolete nuke & missiles tech. But likely China can give NK a dozen to aim at US as guarantee, like what US put in Nato illegally

  124. @mr_mystique

    I think we are a long way from a full solution. But this is a healthy start. North Korea has been willing to give up nuclear weapons as far back Reagan, maybe before. But it was the US that blew that deal, not North Korea.

  125. Ultrafart says:

    While the author has clearly put some constructive analysis into this article, I believe there’s some entrenched bias in the thinking of both the author and many of the commentors here.
    Specifically, Kim never said that he would get rid of his nuclear weapon stockpile. What he did commit to, and sensibly so, in a joint communique with the South Korean President Moon, was the “denuclearization of the Korean peninsula”. That includes all the American nukes stationed in South Korea.
    So, this is no capitulation by the North Korean leader, nor is it double-speak by either of the two Korean leaders. What we are seeing is a genuine attempt at reconciliation by the two Koreas.
    The Americans remain the fly in the ointment – if they’re not part of the solution (which, as many commentors suggest, the Americans most definitely are NOT), then they’re part of the problem.
    If the Trump regime persist in seeking the unilateral capitulation of North Korea to American domination, and continued subjection of South Korea to their military occupation, then the United States may well become irrelevant to Korean diplomacy.
    Needless to say, in that case the expected American response will be to pull a false flag attack to justify a full-fledged invasion and occupation of North Korea.

  126. Bach says:
    @PJ London

    I agree. Moon’s plan was to pursue detente but the obvious and absolute disregard for the SKorean people by Washington made his mission even more necessary and desperate.

  127. @Ultrafart

    That last paragraph may be a stretch, well more than a stretch. ‘

    – false flag

  128. @Ultrafart

    That last paragraph may be a stretch, well more than a stretch. ‘

    – false flag

  129. It is no secret that US Presidents have pressured China for decades. Trump took it to another level. He risked nuclear war, or did he? He outplayed all at nuclear poker

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  130. Roy says:
    @Ultrafart

    There are no American nukes on South Korean soil. Those were removed decades ago.

  131. gragor says:

    Interesting perspective. Not one you are going to read in the MSM.

    Personally I believe Kim would be crazy to let go of his hard won nuclear weapons and that he can trust no one to protect his little fiefdom from the ever changing winds of Super Power politics and alliances.

    As for the last few paragraphs, Vladivostok is located very close to Japan and the markets mentioned and it makes no economic sense to run the oil and gas pipelines through volatile North and South Korea when Russia could just terminate them on its own territory in a very similar location. This would be a political decision to include North Korea in any pipeline routing.

    The Chinese border is also located within 60 miles of Vladivostok.

  132. @Michael Slattery

    Uhhh maybe. Very doubtful.

    I don’t see any evidence for this. The Hawaiian gambit was very obvious — hardly worth a blink. I will grant that he scared US citizens –

  133. JimDandy says:

    Do we know that Trump’s actions did not alarm China and influence its decision to intervene. Do we know whether or not any kind of behind the scenes dealmaking between Trump’s administration and China happened.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  134. @JimDandy

    I have few doubts that te president had some influence —

    But as is evident from events — so the other parties involved.

    A Nobel prize — unsupportable for this president or the previous.

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