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Here’s your legal koan for the day: When is an indictment not an indictment?

Answer– When there is no intention of initiating a criminal case against the accused. In the case of the 13 Russian trolls who have just been indicted by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, there is neither the intention nor the ability to prosecute a case against them. (They are all foreign nationals who will not face extradition.)

But, if that’s the case, than why would Mueller waste time and money compiling a 37-page document alleging all-manner of nefarious conduct when he knew for certain that the alleged perpetrators would never be prosecuted? Why?

Isn’t is because the indictments are not really a vehicle for criminal prosecution, but a vehicle for political grandstanding? Isn’t that the real purpose of the indictments, to add another layer of dirt to the mountain of unreliable, uncorroborated, unproven allegations of Russian meddling. Mueller is not acting in his capacity as Special Counsel, he is acting in his role of deep state hatchet-man whose job is to gather scalps by any means necessary.

Keep in mind, the subjects of the indictment will never be apprehended, never hire an attorney, never be in a position to defend themselves or refute the charges, and never have their case presented before and judge or a jury. They will be denied due process of law and the presumption of innocence. Mueller’s ominous-sounding claims, which were the centerpiece of his obscene media extravaganza, made sure of that. In most people’s minds, the trolls are guilty of foreign espionage and that’s all there is to it. Case closed.

But the indictments themselves suggest that Mueller’s narrative is wrong. The objective was not to influence the election, but make money by getting viewers to “click on” advertisements. Check it out:

“Defendants and their co-conspirators also used the accounts to receive money from real U.S. persons in exchange for posting promotions and advertisements on the ORGANIZATION-controlled social media pages. Defendants and their co-conspirators typically charged certain U.S. merchants and U.S. social media sites between 25 and 50 U.S. dollars per post for promotional content on their popular false U.S. persona accounts, including Being Patriotic, Defend the 2nd, and Blacktivist.”

That sounds like a money-making scheme to me not an attempt to subvert US democracy. So why is Mueller in such a lather? Isn’t this all just an attempt to divert attention from the fact that the Nunes’ investigation has produced proof that senior-level officials at the FBI and DOJ were “improperly obtaining” FISA warrants to spy on members of the Trump Campaign? Isn’t that what’s really going on?

If we can agree that the indictments were not intended to bring the “accused” to justice, then don’t we also have to agree that there must have been an ulterior motive for issuing them? And what might that ulterior motive be? What are the real objectives of the investigation, to cast a shadow on an election that did not produce the results that powerful members of the entrenched bureaucracy wanted, to make it look like Donald Trump did not beat Hillary Clinton fair and square, and to further demonize a geopolitical rival that has blocked Washington’s imperial ambitions in Syria and Ukraine? Which of these is the real driving force behind Russiagate or is it ‘all of the above?’

Nothing will come of the indictments because the indictments were not designed reveal the truth or bring the accused to justice. They were written to shape public perceptions and to persuade the American people that Trump cheated in the elections and that Russia poses a serious threat to US national security. The indictments have no legal merit, they are a form of domestic propaganda and disinformation. The real target is the American people.

It’s worth noting, that if Mueller really wanted to get to the bottom of the Russia-gate allegations, he would interview the people who have first-hand knowledge what actually happened. He would question Julian Assange (WikiLeaks) and Craig Murray, both of whom have stated publicly that they know who stole the Podesta emails. Mueller hasn’t done that, nor has he contacted the VIPs (Ray McGovern, William Binney, Skip Folden, etc) who did extensive forensic investigation of the “hacking” allegations and proved that the emails were not hacked but leaked. Mueller has not pursued that line of inquiry either. Nor has he interviewed California Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, who met with Assange personally and who has suggested that Assange may reveal the name (of the DNC “leaker”) under the right conditions. Instead of questioning witnesses, Mueller has spent a great deal of time probing the online activities Russian trolls who were engaged in a money-making scheme that was in no way connected to the Russian government, in no way connected to the Trump campaign, and in no way supportive of the claims of hacking or collusion. None of this reflects well on Mueller who, by any stretch, appears to be either woefully incompetent or irredeemably biased.

The indictment states that the organization that employed the trolls “had the strategic purpose of sowing political discord in the United States.” This seems to be a recurrent theme that has popped up frequently in the media as well. The implication is that the Russians are the source of the widening divisions in the US that are actually the result of growing public angst over the lopsided distribution of wealth that naturally emerges in late-stage capitalism. Moscow has become the convenient scapegoat for the accelerated parasitism that has seen 95% of the nation’s wealth go to a sliver of people at the top of the foodchain, the 1 percent. (But that’s another story altogether.) Here’s a brief clip from the portentous-sounding indictment:

“The general conspiracy statute… creates an offense “[i]f two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose….

The intent required for a conspiracy to defraud the government is that the defendant possessed the intent (a) to defraud, (b) to make false statements or representations to the government or its agencies in order to obtain property of the government, or that the defendant performed acts or made statements that he/she knew to be false, fraudulent or deceitful to a government agency, which disrupted the functions of the agency or of the government. It is sufficient for the government to prove that the defendant knew the statements were false or fraudulent when made.”

The above statement helps to prove my point that the indictments are not a vehicle for criminal prosecution, but part of a politically-motivated information campaign to damage Trump and vilify Russia. No one seriously believes that Mueller would ever try to prosecute this case based on the spurious and looney claims of a criminal conspiracy. The whole idea is laughable.

There are a couple interesting twists and turns regarding the indictments that could be significant, but, then again, maybe not. We found it interesting that Rob Goldman, who is the Vice President of Facebook Ads, tweeted this revealing disclaimer on Monday which Trump posted on Twitter:

“I have seen all of the Russian ads and I can say very definitively that swaying the election was *NOT* the main goal.”

Then there are the puzzling comments by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein who said on Friday:

“There’s no allegation in this indictment that any American had any knowledge. And the nature of the scheme was the defendants took extraordinary steps to make it appear that they were ordinary American political activists, even going so far as to base their activities on a virtual private network here in the United States so, if anybody traced it back to that first jump, they appeared to be Americans….”

Do you notice anything unusual about Rosenstein’s remarks?

There’s no mention of Trump at all, which is a striking omission since all of previous public announcements have been used to strengthen the case against Trump. Now that’s changed. Why?

Naturally, Trump picked up on Rosenstein’s omission and blasted this triumphant message on Twitter:

“Deputy A.G. Rod Rosenstein stated at the News Conference: “There is no allegation in the indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election.” Donald Trump

So, what’s going on here? Mueller and Rosenstein are smart guys. They must have known that Trump would use the dates and the absence of anything remotely suggesting collusion as vindication. Was that the purpose, to let Trump off the hook while the broader propaganda campaign on Russia continues?

This is the great mystery surrounding the indictments, far from helping to establish Trump’s culpability, they appear to imply his innocence. Why would Mueller and his allies want to do that? Are the Intel agencies and the FBI looking for a way to end this political cage-match before a second Special Counsel is appointed and he starts digging up embarrassing information about the involvement of other agencies (and perhaps, the White House) in the Russiagate fiasco?
Just think about it for a minute: There is nothing in the indictments that suggests that Trump or anyone in his campaign was involved with the Russian trolls. There is nothing in the indictments that suggests Trump was acting as a Russian agent. And there’s nothing in the indictments that suggests the Russian government helped Trump win the election. Also, the timeline of events seems to favor Trump as does Rosenstein’s claim that the online activity did not have “any effect on the outcome of the election.”

Bottom line: The indictments were very good news for Donald Trump, but very bad news for Robert Mueller who appears to have run into a brick wall. But has he? Has Mueller abandoned the attacks on Trump or is there something else going on just below the surface?

I can only guess at the answer, but it looks to me like Trump may have made a deal to support the attacks on Russia provided he is acquitted on charges of collusion. That’s what he’s wanted from the beginning, so, maybe he won this round? Here’s one of his recent tweets that helps to support my theory:

“I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said “it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer.” The Russian “hoax” was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia – it never did!” Donald Trump

Hmmm? So Trump now Trump is okay with blaming Russia as long as he’s not included too? Is that what he’s saying? Here’s more in the same vein:

“If it was the GOAL of Russia to create discord, disruption and chaos within the U.S. then, with all of the Committee Hearings, Investigations and Party hatred, they have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. They are laughing their asses off in Moscow. Get smart America!” Donald Trump

Okay, so now Trump is turning the tables and saying, ‘Yeah, maybe Russia has been ‘sowing discord’, but the Democrats are the ones you should be blaming not me.’

So Trump is not opposed to demonizing Russia, he’s just opposed to demonizing Donald John Trump. That’s where he draws the line.

What’s wrong with that? If Trump’s enemies want to provide him with a Get-Outta-Jail-Free card, then why shouldn’t he snatch it up and put this whole goofy probe behind him? That’s what most people would do.

The problem is that Trump’s biggest supporters want him to continue struggle against “The Swamp”. They want him to fight for their interests and expose the crooked goings-on behind the Russiagate scandal. They want him to lift up the rock that conceals the activities of the National Security State so everyone can see the maggots squirming below. That’s what they want, a modern-day Samson who shakes the temple’s pillars and brings the whole crooked system crashing down around him.

These same people are hopeful that the Nunes memo and the Grassley-Graham “criminal referral” are just the tip of the iceberg that will inevitably lead to the bigger fish involved in this deep-state conspiracy, namely former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, Former FBI Director James Comey, and very likely, Barack Hussein Obama himself. What role did these men play in spying on the Trump campaign? Were they actively trying to sabotage the elections by giving Hillary an edge? Should a second Special Counsel be appointed to investigate whether crimes were committed in their targeting of the Trump team?

All of these questions need to be answered in order to clear the air, hold the guilty parties accountable and restore confidence in the government. Trump’s backers hope that he is principled and pugnacious enough to go nose-to-nose with these Intel agency serpents and give them the bloody whooping they so richly deserve. Unfortunately, I don’t see any evidence that that’s what he has in mind. We’ll see.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: American Media, Deep State, Donald Trump, Russia 
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  1. Punz says:

    My goodness, what a rambling mess. Can we please get an editor in here? I suggest you read these out loud in front of someone so you can get your arguments into some semblance of a structure.

    • Agree: utu
    • Disagree: for-the-record
  2. ChrisD says:

    Goldman, an executive at Zucc’s Book, displayed evidence at a House Committee hearing of Russian bots trolling the US by portraying Sanders as ‘sexy’ and Trump as a hero. These memes were generally amusing but largely ineffectual. The idea of election meddling by Russia to elect Trump has largely been debunked, and both the Left and the Right now see it as a distraction to the real issue: Deep State malfeasance. Those Never Trumpers in the Dems and McCain camps are now left disgraced and humiliated and their only allies are WaPo, NYT, CNN and a few other fake news outlets. The test for Trump will be whether he can take a wrecking ball to the FBI and Department of State and to truly cleanse the bureaucracy of ne’er-do-wells who have constantly been undermining him from the beginning.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    , @Twodees Partain
  3. I think the author is correct in his assumptions. One area of hope, though, is that the allegations are so ridiculous and others have pointed out, for instance, that the Australian Labor party sent operatives to the US to help defeat Trump, and Trump has to realize that he would be neutered by the continuance of the Mueller witchhunt, so I think that if it is a deal, it is tactical for the present. As the article indicates, Trump would lose a lot of his support if he follows through on the deal. Also, pro-Trump websites are continuing on with the drumbeat against Mueller, and in my view, the Democrats overplayed their hand by calling this clickbait scam the “equivalent of Pearl Harbor” and make pushback more likely.

    I think that one thing the indictment has accomplished is to reveal to anybody not paid to think otherwise that the yankee imperium entered the post-legal era years ago, and that the legitimacy of the yankee state has totally evaporated.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  4. why would he? why should he?

    the investigation creates so much noise it masks everything he does. that includes everyone and the red party. I doubt he can create a better distraction even if he wanted to.

    as it continues, he gains more support from his base :) genius. his handlers are geniuses.

  5. Isn’t is because the indictments are not really a vehicle for criminal prosecution, but a vehicle for political grandstanding? Isn’t that the real purpose of the indictments, to add another layer of dirt to the mountain of unreliable, uncorroborated, unproven allegations of Russian meddling. Mueller is not acting in his capacity as Special Counsel, he is acting in his role of deep state hatchet-man whose job is to gather scalps by any means necessary [...] It’s worth noting, that if Mueller really wanted to get to the bottom of the Russia-gate allegations, he would interview the people who have first-hand knowledge what actually happened. He would question Julian Assange (WikiLeaks) and Craig Murray, both of whom have stated publicly that they know who stole the Podesta emails.[sic][...] None of this reflects well on Mueller who, by any stretch, appears to be either woefully incompetent or irredeemably biased

    Misdirection here by Mike Whitney. Whitney can’t bring himself to say Mueller has been, for decades, ‘historically, criminally corrupt with longtime habit of maintaining a DoJ cover for CIA.’ As well, why does Mike exclude mentioning Seymour Hersh and Kim Dotcom concerning the proposed fact Seth Rich leaked the DNC mails? He sticks with a weak ‘we really don’t know’ line of bs.

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2017/09/16/incompetent-espionage-wikileaks-iii/

    https://ronaldthomaswest.com/2018/02/07/bob-manson-charlie-mueller/

    These same people are hopeful that the Nunes memo and the Grassley-Graham “criminal referral” are just the tip of the iceberg that will inevitably lead to the bigger fish involved in this deep-state conspiracy, namely former CIA Director John Brennan, former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, Former FBI Director James Comey, and very likely, Barack Hussein Obama himself. What role did these men play in spying on the Trump campaign? Were they actively trying to sabotage the elections by giving Hillary an edge? Should a second Special Counsel be appointed to investigate whether crimes were committed in their targeting of the Trump team?

    Yeah, well Mike, ‘hope springs eternal’ is the apropos folk wisdom. Why not look at this instead:

    “Of course, none of this will be brought out by the Congressional intelligence committees, to collapse the credibility of ‘three amigos’ Special Counsel Mueller, fired Director Comey & present FBI boss Wray to help kill the ‘Russia collusion’ farce; because all parties are complicit and tainted in the cover-up. Grassley wants the DoJ personalities to fall on their swords while Feinstein is besides herself, going crazy, as the investigation into President Skunk implodes around the Steele Dossier. It’s like an exclusive ‘serial-killers only’ swingers’ club where everybody is tired of the limited opportunity at couplings, yet their sex addiction requires everyone screwing everyone out of habit and everyone hates everyone’s guts. At some point, the entire crew will resort to some new mass murder, like allowing war in Korea, to get it all back on track” (See second link, preceding.)

    Ron West

    • Replies: @Ronald Thomas West
  6. There is no crime called “collusion”. So Trump cannot be “acquitted”, let alone be charged with something that is not a crime.

    Apparently the deep state and media’s repetition of “collusion” has duped not just the public, but this author with thinking it is some kind of crime.

    That’s the purpose of endlessly repeating this vague term in pejorative rhetoric, without ever referencing a criminal statute like the Foreign Agent Registration Act or whatever.

    This gigantic diversionary twaddle has worked because the seditionists have still not been stopped. I’m not real optimistic about it, but there are some positive developments. There is a big disappointment in the offing with the Inspector General report coming out soon. Horowitz is a deep state operative who has covered for the Clintons in the past. They have to do something, so expect a limited hangout or partial whitewash. That way the drug and weapons ratlines can continue to fund our unconscionable acts across the globe.

  7. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    “Hurry, hurry, step right up folks. See the bald man with hair, the fearsome Dyke of Arkansas who eats her enemies, the Kenyan man who covers his face in bodily excretions!”

    That’s what we have in the USA, a big carnival show, with the politicians playing the fools, while the marks–Americans–stand around with stupid grins on their faces, watching the carny barker while his confederates pick our pockets.

    If Trump strays too far from the script, he’ll join JFK in Arlington.

    • Agree: jacques sheete, renfro
  8. Spin machines in over drive.

  9. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Deep state, Big Jew, is going to label the altright as Russian agents for an eventual round up and extermination of white Christian Americans. Mueller’s indictment is a message to the altright.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  10. Ma Laoshi says:

    Trump needs the swamp to produce politicized intel for his campaigns against Iran and Venezuela (plus a dozen other countries which don’t threaten the US). He needs the hated MSM (not much more than the swamp’s media branch) to sell the Iran war to his voters, who are supposed to pay for it. He needs his shady relatives to stay OUT of prison, where several of them seem to belong (of course, papa Kushner has already spent time inside). So appeasement it is.

    Sorry, but on the whole Trump voters are too dumb to pose much of an obstacle. They like the campaigns against Iran because of religion, and against Venezuela because of “socialism”. They didn’t raise a peep when it became clear that THEIR money would all go to the Armies of Mordor. That this is “Saddam-WMD-9/11″ all over again just hasn’t registered with them, and never will. Just like Trump winning his primary running against outside money, and immediately afterwards selling out for Adelson’s shekels–it exceeds the deplorables’ attention span, so it never happened. Keep harping on immigrants and it’s all good; razzle-dazzle them, as it was called in the Chicago movie.

    So on the whole, yes, already since his inauguration it has been clear that The Donald is mostly playing along, as long as he’ll be allowed to stay president. The question remains if (just like Putin in Syria) he isn’t trying to appease something which won’t be appeased–maybe Trump thinks he has a deal, but his enemies, while technically backing off from the collusion claim, will still squeeze his relatives so hard on their finances and other shenanigans that something breaks. I say: would serve Trump right for sleeping with the dogs.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  11. Intriguing if these 13 Russians turned up at US District Court for a chat with a Federal Prosecutor with the International press in tow. It would be lovely to have Vlad present his people for investigation and trial. Mueller set these 13 up, again, ‘knowing’ he would never have to prove a damned thing and so, there are many embellishments. Mueller ‘knows’ he’ll never try them, but he also ‘knew’, as they ALL did, that Hillary was getting in and so these crimes would never come to light.

    Love to have Putin blow up yet another thing these folks thought they ‘knew’. I’d contribute to the GoFundMe for the best lawyers there are..

    • Replies: @expeedee
  12. So Trump is not opposed to demonizing Russia, he’s just opposed to demonizing Donald John Trump. That’s where he draws the line.

    Bingo. Well guys, if there’s anyone here who still abides by the ’5-D chess’ theory, I think it’s time to face facts: Trump has thrown us all under the bust to save himself. Expect a war in Syria, or Ukraine, or maybe both.

    It’s all up to Nunes now. Let’s hope he doesn’t sell us out, too:

    https://consortiumnews.com/2018/02/19/nunes-fbi-and-doj-perps-could-be-put-on-trial/

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  13. This is all kabuki.

    It doesn’t matter who is President or what he does.

    America is captive to its maleficent Jewish shadow government that rules by extortion, propaganda and fraud.

    • Agree: Seamus Padraig
  14. The indictments have no legal merit, they are a form of domestic propaganda and disinformation. The real target is the American people.

    That’s pretty much what this banana republic’s government is all about. One way or another, everything they do is designed to ultimately squeeze something out of us dumb ‘Merkin proles and peasants, especially us stupid goyim.

    The rest is mere detail. Understanding that saves a lot of time and energy.

  15. If “The Russians” really wanted to screw with us, they’d send a couple of the indictees over to stand trial, and hire some lefty-lawyer like Dershowitz to defend them.

    • Replies: @Beckow
  16. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Thanks, to both Mr. Whitney and to Mr. Unz.

    Cf., the latest from Mr. Napolitano, conveniently here for critical, thoughtful comparison.

  17. Very good analysis.
    I’d just add that Trump revealed some deep underlining splits in US society.
    The liberal media have done their utmost not to report on them for the past 30 years.
    No wonder anyone looking for a commercial opportunity on the internet focused on the same social splits as Trump did.

  18. A deal is certainly plausible. Trump gives up his Russian contacts in return for immunity. His reaction to the indictments tends to contradict that theory but that could be an act. Certainly, the target is Putin, not Trump. The point of Russiagate is to prevent Trump capitulating to Putin in Ukraine. The links between Putin and Trump are based almost entirely on Trump’s own statements and they too may have been an act. By openly intervening in the Italian election, Putin has tacitly admitted that he also interfered in the US election, so there’s no real need to prove anything else.

  19. AndrewR says:
    @ChrisD

    Trump is too stupid and narcissistic to be effective in… well… anything. There is a bizarre and widespread delusion on this site that Trump is anything more than a stepping stone for a real nationalist uprising.

  20. @ChrisD

    “The test for Trump will be whether he can take a wrecking ball to the FBI and Department of State ”

    He could have done that a year ago. Trump has left more people loyal to Obama in their jobs than would have thought possible. His advisors are all seemingly pushing their own agendas and haven’t clued him in on the fact that he has Obama’s bureaucracy snapping at his ankles and he needs to go on a firing rampage.

    I doubt that he even knows who he can fire outright and who would have to be moved into another department.

    • Replies: @Bill
  21. lavoisier says: • Website
    @anonymous

    The Deep state, Big Jew, is going to label the altright as Russian agents for an eventual round up and extermination of white Christian Americans. Mueller’s indictment is a message to the altright.

    Are you serious? White Christians are almost all fully on board with the Zionist project! No need to round these folks up. Keep the bought and paid for fundamentalist preachers in the pulpit to bring in the countless rubes to collectively celebrate the greater glory of Zion and the coming rapture!!

    No greater friend of the Zionists than the fundamentalist Christians.

  22. The Duran has another article that busts Mueller’s game:

    http://theduran.com/13-russian-trolls-indictment-debunked-by-journalist-profiled-the-operation-in-2015/

    According to the author, this troll farm had 90 employees assigned to the American market who designed clickbait ads using titles that would attract doofuses wanting to read articles on their favorite subjects related to the election.

    If you surf the net without a good adblocker, you’ll see all these clickbait ads with titles like “Defeat Trump with one weird trick”, or “What Trump said to Hillary off stage will astonish you” in an attempt to get the reader to go to their site and buy something.

    That’s what these trolls were doing, and it had nothing to do with influencing voters.

  23. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Seamus Padraig

    Bingo. Well guys, if there’s anyone here who still abides by the ’5-D chess’ theory, I think it’s time to face facts: Trump has thrown us all under the bust to save himself. Expect a war in Syria, or Ukraine, or maybe both.

    It does really look like this is true.

    I was expecting more of a profile in courage under the tutelage of someone smarter than Trump; instead we are seeing another profile in venality and stupidity.

  24. ante says:

    there have been thousands of such people in Balkans, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Greece, who set up web pages and made money on advertising, who used the presidential election, as honey pot.
    Mueller is such an idiot, that he does not know it.
    Sorry, he is so clever, to go only after russian trace.
    you can start here:

    https://www.wired.com/2017/02/veles-macedonia-fake-news/

  25. @Ma Laoshi

    Sorry, but on the whole Trump voters are too dumb to pose much of an obstacle.

    True, but that goes for any banana republic voter.

    They like the campaigns against Iran because of religion, and against Venezuela because of “socialism”.

    They like the excitement of the campaigns but nothing more. Religion and socialism or whatever are nothing more than pretexts. Even worse, the sad truth is that they don’t even need a pretext to peddle violence and to wallow in cesspool grade stupidity and gratuitous sadism.

  26. Beckow says:
    @The Alarmist

    send a couple of the indictees over to stand trial, and hire some lefty-lawyer like Dershowitz to defend them

    That was my initial reaction. But that assumes that a Washington court would not be a show trial with emphasis on process minutia, e.g. ‘identity theft’ and some financial violations. With media in overdrive proving their hyper-patriotism.

    US has too many laws that are ambiguous beyond belief, almost anything can be declared a ‘crime’. Plus you have limited disclosure due to national security (‘methods and sources subterfuge always works). Volunteering for a political show trial doesn’t work.

    We just have to let it go, it is now a ‘crime’ for foreigners to criticise US politicians without first registering with Washington. Quite a beacon of freedom for the world.

  27. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Is Mike Whitney hacked and leaked onto the internet and can VIPS investigate that too?

  28. Indicting foreign election interference trolls sets a precedent for prosecuting domestic election interference trolls. The domestic election interference trolls spent hundreds of millions and left very prolific financial and digital footprints. Jim Messina shouldn’t be sleeping easy.

  29. Bill says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Trump’s failure to fire people by the truckload during the first week of his presidency is a topic worth exploring. Probably we won’t know why he failed to do this until after his presidency sometime, but it is a curious choice given how widespread and intense was the hatred of him.

  30. @Bill

    We can know why now. Trump was kneecapped from day one in the Oval Office and he’s surrounded by treasonous people who’ll either keep him in line or step out of the way of Trump’s political enemies. Pence and his ideologically (theologically, actually) aligned Christian Zionist generals have it under control:

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2018/02/11/president-held-hostage/

    Meanwhile Trump is the perfect idiot to take the heat and end up holding the bag. The momentary big, inside fight, is fundamentalist Christian Pentagon vs neoliberal CIA for upper hand at the White House with Bibi (via AIPAC) solidly on the side of Pence, probably not if, but much more likely when, Trump is taken down.

    That fool actually believed he would be allowed to become President. Well, he was wrong. He got the title, he gets the heat, but he’ll never be allowed to exercise the power.

  31. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill

    Trump belongs to the Ruling Class. If he didn’t, the rulers never would have selected him as president. I thought the producers had brought in the Trump character to change the direction of the play. But no, still the same old Empire first, the rich second, and everything else later. How much did the Trump family save from the new tax law? That’s another story all together.

  32. edNels says:

    Back in the day, when knights were bold, prosecutors for real, laws were understood by all, they laid their turds beside the road, and walked away contented!

    Sheesh anyhow, This Comey, and his side kick Mueller are doing pretty good job of what they are charged with, (to do that is…charged with a task.) of charging Russians, those dirty Boris’s and Natashia’s over there in the dark forrest somewhere.

    A ticket a tasket, the case is in a basket, (basket case, of course) and Comey and Mueller are excellent in their roles, playing to a tough crowd, masterful impressions of Lerch and Herman Munster.

    What is the real job? could it be to extend childhood and adelescence… (strike that) wrong thought…. dupdada… here it is: could it be that the real job is to extend the election process FOOD FIGHT, indeterminately, thus displacing the expectations normally accruing to a change of administrations. That is a serious sounding term for adults, not for the kids. ADMINISTRATION… suit wearing mthfrkrs all around, all dry fake talk masking every possible meaning and to what end?

    That boat left the pier now the population is only to be amused, more of the same Food Fight please!

    You have an evolution of pollution of the process of regress into the abstraction/distraction. Mad Hatter’s Tea Party, now the new norm, and it seems to work,

    We’ve grown too cynical for the likes of Columbo, or Perry Mason, etc.

  33. I hope somebody was listening to Wayne LaPiere speech.
    He called Trumps enemies, and Democrats “EUROPEAN STYLE SOCIALISTS”
    Here is the hypocrisy:
    If schools could get dozens of volunteers to controls the intersections around the school so kids do not get hit by cars,
    it could get couple of volunteers with guns to watch the kids so they would not get killed by insane individuals.

    • Replies: @freebird
  34. @Ronald Thomas West

    Note to Ron Unz, I use the above, alternative, handle when the internet gods (or perhaps gatekeepers) refuse my comments, with a configuration change on this end to get the post through -

  35. freebird says:

    You repeated yourself a lot in this opinion piece. I agree with most of it except for the part that Trump is somehow shifting blame from himself onto the Russians. A lot of outside entities meddled in our election and have been doing so for decades. China, Mexico, Russia, to name a couple however their meddling pales in comparison to our own mainstream media. During this election cycle in 2016 they bashed Trump and shrilled for Clinton 24 x 7. Any outside interference by a group of opportunistic Russians on social media pales by comparison. Think of the hundreds of millions of dollars of positive propaganda coverage Clinton got verses the non-stop negative coverage Trump got. Russia meddles into the affairs of other countries – duh, really, stop the presses. We have an entire media that is fake media that feeds Americans a non-stop deluge of fake leftist BS day after day. Now I ask you which is worse for the body politic?

    • Agree: Alden
  36. freebird says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Gee why not simply hire a fully trained and qualified security guard and pay him a decent salary to protect the school. One at each school should do the job. And don’t say it can’t be done, prioritize the money to do it.

  37. The investigation like the Sword of Damocles may indeed get Pres Trump to further compromise his agenda as per the campaign. However, those who lost the election have no intention of of giving an inch. if at all possible, they intend to get rid of Pres Trump because he waylaid there plans. Unfortunately they are incorrect, it was Pres Trump, it was their agenda and and a solid opposition to it that defeated them during the election.

    Since the attempt to remove him includes the Russia investigation and it various tentacles I intend to defend the current President as much possible.

    Major Sjursen and Dr. Bacivich – ya ya ya I know . . . he’s a this and a that . . . ) seem to have reached the same conclusion – once in it’s “heck to fight” the preordained agenda.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  38. annamaria says:
    @exiled off mainstreet

    The RussiaGate affairs and collusion charge are the obvious “Banksters United” coup run with a stunning degree of incompetence. Russia must be demonized because of her mineral resources, which are still not available for free, and because of her “wrong” behavior in Syria. Bansksters need this war. Arm producers and dealers need this war. Only the apparent danger of suicide by nuclear answer stops the banksters and other war profiteers from an immediate attack against Russian Federation.
    The moneyed and powerful psychopaths-in-charge are enraged that the wealth of other nations is still outside their reach becasue of Russian “stubborness.” The US/UK banking section is the main engine behind the supreme crimes of aggression in the Middle East and Ukraine (the ongoing civil war there had been initiated on the CIA instructions in 2014; see Brennan “secret” visit to Kiev on the eve of military actions against the civilian populations of Eastern Ukraine: https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russian-media-report-cia-director-held-secret-consultations-in-kiev-33897).
    The FBI and the CIA are the hired gangster organizations for the banksters. If the FBI and the CIA cared about national security, the US would not suffer the infamy of Awan affair, CrowdStrike “conclusions,” and the US support for Daesh/ISIS/Al Qaida in the Middle East, as well as the US support for neo-Nazis in Ukraine. The US taxpayers have been financing both ISIS and neo-Nazis because banksters decided so.

    • Replies: @exiled off mainstreet
  39. annamaria says:

    “Banksters United” conference in Munich: http://www.voltairenet.org/article199781.html
    “The Middle East as seen by Berlin
    Germany invested a lot in the US project for the Middle East (the strategy of the destruction of societies and states, conceived by Admiral Arthur Cebrowski, but noticeably less in the British-US project for the « Arab Springs ». Since the Cold War, it has housed and supported several headquarters for the Muslim Brotherhood, including that of the Syrians in Aix-la-Chapelle. Germany took a part in the assassination of ex-Prime Minister of Lebanon, Rafic Hariri. In 2012, it co-wrote the Feltman plan for the total and unconditional capitulation of Syria. At present, Volker Perthes, director of the Stiftung Wissenschaft und Politik, the state think-tank, is advisor to Jeffrey Feltman at the UNO. [Jeffrey David Feltman is the United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs. Feltman was born to Jewish parents in the US… he speaks Hebrew, English, Arabic, French, and Hungarian.]
    For several years, the internal documents of the European External Action Service (EEAS) are copied and pasted from Volker Perthes’ notes for the German government. Volker Perthes was at Munich with Jeffrey Feltman and their friends, Lakdhar Brahimi, Ramzi Ramzi, Steffan de Mistura, Generals David Petraeus (the KKR was also represented by Christian Ollig) and John Allen (Brookings Institution), as well as Nasser al-Hariri, the President of the High Authority for Negotiations (pro-Saudi Syrian opposition), Raed al-Saleh, director of the White Helmets (Al-Qaïda) and their Qatari sponsors, including Emir Thamim.”
    There were also “three bosses – German BND (Bruno Kahl), British MI6 (Alex Younger) and the French DGSE (Bernard Emié), who explained in a private room, in front of an audience chosen for their naïveté, how nervous they were about the Turkish operation in Syria. The three men pretended to believe that the combatants of the YPG constitute the safest barrier against Daesh. Yet they were supposed to create the Frontier Security Force with certain ex-members of Daesh. … It’s clear that the job of these three super-spies is to know to whom they owe the truth, and to whom they can lie. Sustaining their momentum, they hinted that the Syrian Arab Army uses chemical weapons – profiting from the absence in the room of the US Secretary for Defence, Jim Mattis, who had testified a few days earlier that proof of this claim is inexistent.”
    — Lies, obfuscations, and crimes. The “three bosses” [of national security services] are in service to Banksters, corporations, and arm dealers and producers. On the public dime, of course… And is not it touching that Jeffrey Feltman [a veritable Israel-firster] designs the US military support for ISIS/Daesh in Syria?

  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The Government exists for the rich to control the slaves. The rich choose one of their own to be President. The patriotic slaves, aka zombie morons left and right, vote for the slave masters every four years. And argue over their merits. Oh, the Trump has a much nicer touch with the lash than Obama.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  41. The DNC data was leaked by an insider — some say by the murdered Seth Rich. The Podesta emails were hacked. And what that hack revealed was a network of wealthy pedophiles that included both Podesta brothers, John and Tony, and other D.C. notables like Maeve Luzzatto and James Alefantis. It’s true that the PizzaGate conspiracy theory has been promoted by Twitter nutcases, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t truth in it.

    Obama CIA Director James Brennan’s heavy involvement in the Russia/election conspiracy theory might be a clue that the D.C. pedophile network might be a CIA blackmail operation, much as Jeffrey Epstein’s private Caribbean island was used as a Mossad honey trap.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  42. @lavoisier

    “No greater friend of the Zionists than the fundamentalist Christians.”

    True. And thanks for using the term “Zionist” because not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews. Most American Jews, while supportive of Israel, are not Zionists. Most American Jews are a benefit to the communities they call home. Zionism is a globalist cult that must be unmasked and destroyed.

    • Replies: @lavoisier
  43. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Zero difference between the Republicans and Democrats. Only the zombie slaves see differences. We call them zombie slaves for a reason. Voter = Zombie Slave. Only Zombie Slaves could vote for the creatures in the White House, Senate, and house that I have seen during my long life. Only Zombie Slaves could vote for Trump, Hillary, Obama, or any of the other creatures the masters put before us.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  44. notanon says:

    the media invented the Russia collusion story so Obama could use the NSA to spy on the Trump campaign for dirt

    watergate 2

    the Dems are owned by the banking mafia same as GOPe and the banking mafia want cheap labor – the only difference between Dems and GOPe on this is they use different spin to promote cheap labor – and Trump’s campaign promises (genuine or otherwise) were a threat to the banking mafia’s cheap labor supply.

  45. expeedee says:
    @Jim Christian

    That’s what I was thinking. Wouldn’t that be interesting?

  46. @Anonymous

    I would like to think I am loyal to the country. Whether that makes me a slave or not depends on what is meant by slave. I would dispute whether Pres trump is my master. I don’t have any “knee-jerk” defense for everything he says or does. In fact, we have had some very strong disagreements on several issues. I was hoping he would be tougher than he has turned out to be, but he was better than the alternatives.

    I have n illusions about his conservative foundations – they don’t exist and never have. He may develop some, but , but he does hold some views that I, as a conservative would like to have supported and will support those that reflect my perspective.

    I don’t have illusions that he is not on the same plane as I am regarding faith issues.

    The political system we have is far from perfect, ideal buy it’s what we have. And as long as I have breath and will, I intend to participate in it, despite the apoplectic fits others may have about my faith and practice.

    I see the Russia investigation as deeply disturbing to fundamental fairness and truth – the foundations of democracy itself.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  47. @annamaria

    I agree with your comment and it appears too much like we are experiencing an unstoppable slow-motion trainwreck which will lead to armageddon unless economic collapse of the imperium and/or major loss of satellite ally support prevents this from occurring

  48. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    English has a word for this system – slavery. The Voting Class loves their slavery. Democrats and Republicans make the best slaves because they all lack the intelligence to recognize their own slavery. Most of the slave audience is overcome with concern and emotion as they watch the actors play.

    “The best slave is the one who thinks he is free.” Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

    • Agree: edNels
    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  49. I agree with the first post this article is a mess. Unz is beginning to look like Huffpost. Same tired writers …same tired bull shit. Whitney doesn’t know that this entire thing is a set up. Rosenstein the magic Jew set this up with Mueller. Muller is the bagman. Does Whitney know what a bagman does? Are you kidding me?

  50. Alden says:
    @lavoisier

    The majority of the Christian denominations are not Zionists. Some, some of the Baptists are Zionist but not all. Some, not all United church of Christ are Zionist. The catholic, Methodist Anglican prespyterian Lutherans are not zionists.

    The black churches of whatever denomination are not Zionist It’s really mostly churches with the word evangelical in their names that are Zionist

    And it’s usually the Baptist and non mainstream southern Protestant churches that are Zionist due to obsession with the sex and violence of the Hebrew part of the Bible.

    They are a minority of American Christians but their bribed clergy are the loudest. But it’s mostly a southern phenomenon.

  51. annamaria says:
    @niteranger

    “Same tired writers …same tired bull shit.”
    — Longing for the MSM’ uniformity of thinking? – Then you are truly in a wrong place.

    • Replies: @niteranger
  52. flamingo says:

    It is all a play for time. Soon Gowdy will replace Sessions and then we will be entertained by the second act. Meanwhile USAians will have forgotten they are being farmed by oligarchs and their free and fair elections stolen by oligarchs. USA will remain the worlds most ridiculous and dangerous nation.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  53. lavoisier says: • Website
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Important point to emphasize.

  54. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @lavoisier

    Why did the Jews kill Christ?? Do you know why the Jews killed Christ? The Jews had and still have certain expectations of their messiah. The Jews expected their messiah to enslave the enemies of the Jews. The Jews expected their messiah to enslave the non-Jew. Christ preached forgiveness of ones enemies and peace making. This was blasphemy to the Jews and Christ was killed for it. Christ was killed because he refused to enslave human kind for the Jews. And for no other reason. And you think Christians, true Christians will ever side Jews on any thing in any manner??

  55. annamaria says:

    voice from the land of the owners of the US Congress: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/recording-of-sara-netanyahu-screaming-is-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg-1.5769985

    “If this was the lot of the good-natured Segal, who was considerably older than Sara Netanyahu, why would the rank-and-file employees, with their constant turnover, receive more courteous treatment? They didn’t. This was the daily ration of generations of employees who later went to court over their mistreatment. It’s likely the current staff is subject to the same.”

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  56. utu says:

    Was the motive financial? It is possible.

    Making money from creating fake news. Or at least this is what the guy said:

    We Tracked Down A Fake-News Creator In The Suburbs. Here’s What We Learned

    https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

    “The people wanted to hear this,” he says. “So all it took was to write that story. Everything about it was fictional: the town, the people, the sheriff, the FBI guy. And then … our social media guys kind of go out and do a little dropping it throughout Trump groups and Trump forums and boy it spread like wildfire.”

    And as the stories spread, Coler makes money from the ads on his websites. He wouldn’t give exact figures, but he says stories about other fake-news proprietors making between $10,000 and $30,000 a month apply to him. Coler fits into a pattern of other faux news sites that make good money, especially by targeting Trump supporters.

  57. @Anonymous

    i would grant that there is no such thing as absolute freedom. There are few in this life that live no obligation to another.

    Being a citizen requires some bond whatever obligations one owes to a community. In the US we accept this as largely a voluntary condition.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  58. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    You think the evidence suggests some sort of deal was made? Ok. But I don’t.

    I think it’s more likely there was some sort of deadline issued. Trump probably just didn’t want the investigation to drag on for years against him, so Mueller might get fired if he didn’t wrap that part up quickly. At least this way, he can keep his special powers to investigate in some other direction.

  59. @flamingo

    Session will not be replaced. He cannot do now more harm than what he did. Trump will keep him and give him chance for redemption.
    Gowdy (I like him very much) he feels that he is not appreciated. he said that at the end of the term will be leaving politics, and he will enter private practice.

  60. @annamaria

    What are you talking about? The piece is poorly written; poorly researched and poorly analyzed. It sounds like the MSM. Did you even read what I wrote? Or are you a few bricks short of full load? Do you know what a bagman is? Are you aware of what Mueller’s other investigations have shown? Perhaps you can get together with Whitney and slaughter the next piece for the UNZ.com. This site is beginning to look the MSM but you didn’t figure that out. You went for the opposite conclusion. There are tons of people in both the intelligence and investigative community who know exactly what this is about and it’s not Whitney. Perhaps they won’t write for UNZ or their pieces are rejected. Furthermore, lightweight don’t tell me or anyone else about being in the wrong place. When did the owners of this site die and leave you in charge.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  61. @niteranger

    Ahhh, everybody’s a critic. You can go check out ZH. There are other sites, y’know. BTW, have all 30 of your posts been criticisms of a site that is provided at no charge?

  62. @annamaria

    Dag, ol’ Sarah is as ugly as Bibi. I wonder if she’s as hateful as he is.

  63. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Do you pay income taxes? Why? The slave masters will throw you in prison if you don’t.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  64. annamaria says:
    @niteranger

    “…or are you a few bricks short of full load?”
    — Why the hysterics? Try to maintain at least a minimum of decorum – this is not a schoolyard.
    “Are you aware of what Mueller’s other investigations have shown?”
    – You mean, this Mueller? https://consortiumnews.com/2017/06/21/at-fbi-mueller-oversaw-post-911-torture/
    “When did the owners of this site die…”
    – If you hate this site so much then why are you attracted to it? Try to find your proper place.

    • Replies: @niteranger
  65. @annamaria

    Where did I hate this site just by criticizing it? Your proper place would be in an institution for limited learners. Cluelessness seems to be your major occupation so no use trying to get you to understand what this is about. You still have no idea what Mueller and his friends are doing and never will. Muller’s overseeing of the post 911 torture is nothing. The Bagman Cometh and each time democracy dies a little more.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  66. annamaria says:
    @niteranger

    Ms. Niteranger, your style and manners (see, “Your proper place would be in an institution for limited learners. Cluelessness seems to be your major occupation…”) — do not belong to this forum.
    First, you do not present your own research, which is a sign of either laziness or shortage of facts. Second, you inform the readers that you are in a possession of some very important knowledge that is known to “people in both the intelligence and investigative community who know exactly what this is about.” What is it? And where these people from “both the intelligence and investigative community” have been when the DOJ, the FBI, and the CIA have been smearing Douglas Campbell, “a man who dutifully served the CIA and FBI for decades until he chose an opportune moment to reveal a monumental corruption” of Uranium One deal? – https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-22/uranium-one-undercover-fbi-informants-attorney-demands-doj-inquiry-coordinated?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedge+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero%29
    “Despite the FBI’s knowledge of the money laundering scheme – while Robert Mueller was the Director, the Obama administration approved the related deal for Tenex to purchase Uranium One…. This is not just about bribery and kickbacks but about a U.S. company that was transporting yellow-cake for the Russians with our approval” – https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-21/journalist-sara-carter-slams-doj-attempt-discredit-fbi-informant-and-stonewall-urani?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zerohedge%2Ffeed+%28zero+hedge+-+on+a+long+enough+timeline%2C+the+survival+rate+for+everyone+drops+to+zero%29

  67. @Anonymous

    Laughing. Now that is an issue worthy of scrutiny. The government is mandated by the people to levy taxes. Whether or not they (the government, we the people) have that authority to impose income taxes is a very nuanced (complex) issue.

    The argument that income taxes are unconstitutional has not been officially tested.

    http://americannationalmilitia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/282-Supreme-Court-Dockets-Income-Tax-Challenge.pdf

    Even the noted case above falls short to an actual outright challenge to the income tax as legal. Close enough, in my view. I simply have yet come to a clear decision, but I lean against an income tax as constitutional. The income tax was the result of making alcohol illegal. (short version) The loss of that sales income, had Congress institute an income tax.
    —————-

    However, to address your question, no a tax alone does not make one a slave in my view. Whether a sales tax or otherwise, a tax is how we the citizens pay for the services we establish to manage the same.

    Note: It takes considerable effort, but I do try to remind myself, that when we discuss any aspect of governmental authority, in the US we are essentially talk about the will of the people for which government is instituted to serve. The people are in fact the authority ad are responsible for even it’s failings.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  68. @Bill

    Despite his political inexperience, Pres Trump had a long and intense period to select his admin. I think he is responsible for selecting people who openly did not support his campaign agenda. And while they very well be honorable men, they opposed that agenda for which I voted and would be suspect going in.

    I was incorrect in believing that he would get them on board or they would have to go. And with no disrespect to those he selected, given the agenda I think they should not have been on board.

    That is the failure or the decision of the president to eschew that agenda.

  69. Trump has done his job. He has effectively used the bully pulpit to successfully reveal to the American people the truth about the Deep State malfeasance and Fake News Mainstream Media. The corruption is too systemic.

  70. edNels says:
    @niteranger

    Muller is the bagman. Does Whitney know what a bagman does?

    A bagman is a guy who delivers hundred dollar unmarked bills to people, so there’s no records.
    right or wrong?

    So who is getting the bag of lute, or do you mean it analogously? Who is getting something extra in the process surrepticiously through Mueller?

    Wouldn’t a bagman be somebody much less large than that? He’s too obvious, clunky, you need a quick agile nondescript little guy who don’t get caught.

  71. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    The US has legalized actual slavery in the 13th Amendment. Only the USA, the freest Nation in history has actual slavery and the biggest police forces in the world. Only the USA, the freest and bravest nation that ever existed allows cops to execute children on the street with impunity. And poor men and women, but not rich white men and women.

    Wake up. As long as one person remains oppressed, all of us remain oppressed. Show me where in the Constitution it says people must pay income taxes.

    No country has worse prisons than the USA. Only the US turns all prisoners into slaves and makes them work or suffer punishments, some very brutal, like years of solitary confinement. Americans love to throw stones but live in the most fragile glass house in all of history because they too are slaves. What other nation still has Slavery? None. Why does the US still have slavery? Because of the scum who rule this country and the zombie citizens who love their slave masters and vote for more and more cops and for more and more Government oppression with SWAT squads, electronic surveillance, military armed cops, and the biggest prison population in the world by actual numbers and per capita.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  72. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Trump’s scripts are handed to him on a daily basis. He agreed to play the role where ever it took him: “The Racist”. “The Womanizer”. “The Idiot”. But most famously “The Denier”.

    I doubt the producers will ask him to play the role of “The Impeached” he’s far too valuable of an asset. The second act includes “War President” and “The Enabler”.

  73. @Anonymous

    I am not sure what your intent is here. Save that one hurts all hurt.

    I get the existentialist press, but I have to eschew that all in one cupcake modality. Some hurts need tending to.

    I thought I gad addressed the tax issue and where I lean. But the debate on this issue swirls around the 16th amendment.

    “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

    In my view, paying an income tax may be unconstitutional as it is currently mandated, it is not tantamount to slavery.

    I could not in good conscience contend that our criminal justice system does not have serious issues, including the prison system. But those who have actually broken the law should redress the community in some manner. That redress is in most cases not a sentence to slavery.

    I don’t think we have the worst system, not by a long shot. and while I have expressed critique of our foreign policy – it is not yet so far gone as to advocate or impress slavery on anyone.

    I would also agree that our growth industry in surveillance and arming the police as if for war is troubling and in nearly all cases unnecessary. The police while not free of criticism enjoy widespread support among US citizens, again that does not mean there are not serious issues and serious critique (and there should be). There is a general view among the public that there are issues that need to addressed concerning the use of police and responses to police misbehavior that exceeds constitutional mandates.

    http://live-national-review.pantheonsite.io/sites/default/files/8-25-14-Police-and-Race-Release.pdf

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/28/blacks-whites-police/

    https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/black-white-blue-americans-attitudes-race-police/

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/25/usa-today-pew-poll-police-tactics-military-equipment/14561633/

    This polling data is a bit fated and reflects a period of tensions during the time in question.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  74. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Hard to argue with a zombie. I bet you vote and let others tell you how to live your life. I bet you believe the newspapers and their stories. Hard to argue when people have surrendered their sovereignty to others.

    When did the US end slavery? Never. Read the 13th Amendment. “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

    Over 2 million actual slaves in US prisons today. I bet you can find a better way to justify that horror.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  75. annamaria says:

    The moral image of the zion-occupied US government, the US security apparatus of the obliging gangsters, and the fourth estate of the CIA-approved presstitutes; https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-23/cia-so-bad-even-when-it-tells-truth-it-adds-lies

  76. @Anonymous

    I do think that our number 1 ranking in incarceration is interesting. I have no doubt that we have people in our system who should not be there. I have already granted that there are issue with the system that need change. I think it would be sage for me to say, means to end are not uncommon area of critique.

    But I would add this to the mix. One of the actors that makes the US a force in the world for good and ill, also explains why more of our population might engage in breaking the rules as a means of challenging the system. i have not tested this, but I suspect embodied in the very ideology of being a US citizen is the willingness to rebel against the system — willing to risk it, for good or ill.

    But as I say, I have not tested it, I just consider it. There are probably several other reasons, but they are not attributable to mere authoritarianism, not a desire to produce slaves. I am not sure how much you have read or understand about slavery and its various forms — but nothing like it exists in the US nor has anything like existed but for a select population.

    What you are discussing is the slavery of the mind, a mind in imprisoned – I can only say this — to talk freedom is unattainable. Some level of conformity is required to get along in this life and if want to call that slavery, I am certainly not going challenge you. From the time a human is born he or she is subject to the rigors of conforming to standards they neither created and standards in many respects don’t appreciate. Which is why every parent looks at their child in stunned silence when the child first says ,

    “No.”

    I appreciate the work of Dr. George Herbert Meade and his students compilation of his theories on human communication, socialization and development – how we come to meaning and apply to self and others as independent beings. Given your intense attention to keeping the chains off you might find that interesting and informative.

    In that stead, I am surprised you consider me a slave, laugh —

    Most everyone who knows would that I conform, even a tad more. I will admit to the following:

    – would that I be more a slave to christ
    – would that I not be a slave to my bitterness
    – would that I be a slave to more of the texts I have recently purchased and read
    them consistently
    – would that I, etc.

    Aside from a press to stop paying taxing and releasing US prisoners, I am unsure what else you’d like to be free of — doubtful I will cease being a conservative, celibate or vote independent (given the choices) anytime soon.

    I also confess that I would love to have trists with any number of long legged or shapely legged women, but alas, both christ, celibacy and poverty say otherwise. A slave to conformity in such areas — I am. like marriage first.

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