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Argentina’s New $50 Billion IMF Loan Is Designed to Replay Its 2001 Crisis
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The recently elected neoliberal government of Mauricio Macri has decided to seek a $50 billion IMF credit line, which will only enable more capital flight for the upper class and greater unpayable debt for the rest of the population, says the economist Michael Hudson.

SHARMINI PERIES: It’s The Real News Network. I’m Sharmini Peries, coming to you from Baltimore.

For several months now. Argentines have been taking to the streets to protest against neoliberal austerity measures of President Mauricio Macri. The most recent such protest took place on July 9 on Argentine’s Independence Day. There have also been three general strikes thus far. In the two years since he took office, President Macri has laid off as many as 76,000 public sector workers, and slashed gas and water and electricity subsidies, leading to a tenfold increase in prices in some cases.

The government argues that all this is necessary in order to stem inflation and the decline of the currency’s value. Last month, Macri received the backing of the International Monetary Fund. The IMF agreed to provide Argentina with a $50 billion loan, one of the largest in its history. In exchange, the Macri government will deepen the austerity measures already in place.

Joining me now to analyze Argentina’s economic situation and its new IMF loan is Michael Hudson. Michael is a distinguished research professor of economics at the University of Missouri Kansas City. Welcome back, Michael.

MICHAEL HUDSON: Good to be back, Sharmini.

SHARMINI PERIES: Michael, why is it that Argentina needs such a huge credit line from the IMF?

MICHAEL HUDSON: For precisely the reason that you explained. Its neoliberal policy aims at rolling back the wage increases and employment that Mrs. Kirschner, the former president, achieved. So it’s part of the class war to shrink the economy. To lower wages, you have to cut back business so as to cut back employment. Like almost all IMF loans, the purpose is to subsidize capital flight out of Argentina before this austerity occurs, so that wealthy Argentinians can take their money and run before the currency collapses.

The loan will indebt Argentina so much that its currency will continue to go down and down, chronically wrecking the economy. That’s what the IMF does. That’s its business plan. It makes a loan to subsidize capital flight, emptying out the economy of cash, leading the currency to collapse, as it has recently collapsed. As soon as the $50 billion was expended, wasted in letting wealthy Argentinians take their pesos, convert them into dollars, move them offshore – to the United States, to England, to the Dutch West Indies, and offshore banking centers – then they let the currency collapse.

The IMF model’s basic assumption, which it’s announced for the last 50 years, is that when you depreciate a currency, what you’re really lowering is the price of labor. Raw materials and capital have an international price. But when a currency goes down, it makes imports much more expensive, and that causes a price umbrella over the cost of living. Labor has to pay a higher domestic price for grain, food, oil and gas, andfor everything else.

So what Macri has done is to agree with the IMF to wage class war with a vengeance. Devaluation leaves Argentina so hopelessly indebted that it can’t possibly repay the IMF loan. So what we’re seeing is a replay of what happened in 2001.

 

SHARMINI PERIES: Exactly. I was going to ask you, now, that was only 17 years ago, Michael. Argentinians do have memory here. They know what happened. They experienced it as well. Now, that was back in 2001 during the economic crisis when unemployment had increased so dramatically. That country went through a series of presidents and went through a series of crises. And we saw images very similar to what we have seen in, in Greece not too long ago. Now, tell us more about that history. What exactly happened during that crisis, and then eventually how did Nestor Kirschner relieve the economy and come out of that crisis?

MICHAEL HUDSON: Well, the IMF staff said, “Don’t make the loan. There’s no possible way Argentina can pay it. It’s all going to be made to the oligarchy for capital flight. You’re giving the IMF money for crooks, and you’re expecting the Argentine people to have to pay.” So Argentina very quickly was left broke.

Although that was 17 years ago, for the last 17 years the IMF has had a slogan: “No more Argentinas.” In other words, they said, they were never going to make a loan that is only given to oligarchs for capital flight. That’s what happened when it lent to Ukraine, to the Russian kleptocrats, and to the Greek banks to move offshore. Yet here again, we’re having a replay.

After Mrs. Kirschner came in, it was obvious to everybody, as it had been to the IMF staff (many of whom had resigned) that Argentina couldn’t pay. So about 80 percent of Argentina’s bondholders agreed to write down the debt to something that could be paid. They saw that either it’s a total default because they can’t pay, or they would write it down very substantially to what could be paid, because the IMF really made an incompetent – not incompetent, but outright corrupt – insider deal.

ORDER IT NOW

Unfortunately, the oligarchy had a fatal clause put in the original bond issue, saying that Argentina would agree to U.S. arbitration under U.S. law if there was any dispute. Well, after the old Argentine bonds depreciated in price – the bonds that were not renegotiated as part of the 80 percent – you had vulture funds buy them up. Especially Paul Singer, the Republican campaign donor who tends to buy politicians along with foreign government bonds. He sued, demanding 100 percent on the dollar, not the 40 cents or whatever they’d settled for. The case was assigned to the senile, dying Judge Griesa in New York City. He who said there was something about a clause that said investors have to be treated symmetrically. Argentina had said, “That’s fine, we’ll pay the other 20 percent the same as what the 80 percent of all agreed to. The majority rules.” But Griesa said, “No, you have to pay the 80 percent all the money that the 20 percent demands. That’s symmetry.” He let the hedge funds win. That set Argentina on the road to go bankrupt again, wreck the government, and bring back the oligarchy.

That ruling caused turmoil. The United States State Department set out to support the oligarchy by doing everything it could to destabilize Argentina. The Argentine people voted in a government that was supported by the United States, hoping it would be nice to them. I don’t know why foreign countries think that way, but they thought maybe if they voted neoliberal, the United States would agree to forgive some of its debt.

Well, that’s not what neoliberals do. Macri did just what you said at the beginning of the program. He announced that he was going to cut employment, stop inflation by making the working class bear all of the costs, and would borrow – actually, it was the largest loan in IMF history – the $50 billion to enable the Argentine wealthy class to move its money offshore. That’s what the IMF does.

 

SHARMINI PERIES: Right. So let’s imagine you are given the opportunity to resolve this issue. How would you advise the Argentine government in terms of what can they do to stabilize the economy, given the circumstances they’re facing right now?

 

It doesn’t have to be this way

MICHAEL HUDSON: Very simple. I’d say that this debt is an Odious Debt. There is no way Argentina can pay. The clause that bankrupted it was put in as a result of tens of thousands of professors, labor leaders, and land reformers having been assassinated. The United States financed an assassination team throughout Latin America after Pinochet in Chile, to support what was basically a proxy government. The Argentine loan said it would follow U.S. rules, not Argentine rules. That basically should disqualify that debt from having to be paid. And it should say the IMF debt is an odious debt, given under fraudulent purposes solely for purposes of capital flight.

 

SHARMINI PERIES: Now, Michael, just one last question. Did you want to add something to what you were saying?

MICHAEL HUDSON: Well, once it doesn’t pay the foreign debt, its balance of payments will be more stable. But creditors have always used violence in order to get their way. I don’t see how the Argentina situation can be solved without violence, because the creditors are using police force and covert assassination. They’re just as bad as the Dirty War that had that mass assassination period in the late, into the late 1980s and early ’90s. There’s obviously going to be not only the demonstrations that you showed, but an outright war, because it’s broken out in Argentina more drastically than anywhere else right now in Latin America, except in Venezuela.

 

SHARMINI PERIES: Michael, at the moment, the Fed is gradually increasing interest rates and the dollar is gaining in value. This is sucking the financial capital not only in Argentina but in many places around the world. Also, you know, they’re going to be soon in crisis as well. What is, what can the developing economies do?

MICHAEL HUDSON: Here’s the problem: When the United States raises interest rates, that causes foreign money to flow into the dollar, because the rest of the world, Europe and other areas are keeping low interest rates. So as money goes into the dollar, to take advantage of the rising interest rates, the dollar rises. That makes it necessary for Argentina or any other country, third world country, to pay more and more pesos in order to buy the dollars to pay that foreign debt.

Argentina and other Third World countries have violated the prime rule of credit: never to denominate debt in another currency that you can’t print. Now, the dollar debts become much more expensive in peso terms. As a result, throughout the world right now, you’re having a collapse of bond prices of Third World debt. Argentine bonds, Chilean bonds, African bonds, Near Eastern bonds. Third World debt bonds are plunging, because the investors realize that the countries can’t pay. The game looks like it may be over.

The good side of this is that Argentina now can join with other Third World countries and say, “We are going to redenominate the debts in our own currency, or we just won’t pay, or we will do what the world did in 1931 and announce a moratorium on intergovernmental debts for German reparations and the World War I Inter-Ally debts.” An international conference is needed to declare a moratorium and say, what is the amount that actually can be paid? The aim would be to write down third world debts to the amount that should be paid.

The principle that countries have to support is that no country should be obliged to sacrifice its own economy, its own employment, and its own independence to pay foreign creditors. Every country has a right to put its own citizens first and its own economy first before foreign creditors, especially when the loans are made under false pretenses, as the IMF has made pretending to stabilize the currency instead of subsidizing capital flight to destabilize the currency.

 

SHARMINI PERIES: All right, Michael. I thank you so much. And we’ll continue this conversation. There’s so much more to discuss, and so many countries here in this situation for that discussion as well. I thank you so much for joining us today.

MICHAEL HUDSON: Thanks. I think it’s going to get worse, so we’ll have a lot to discuss.

SHARMINI PERIES: And thank you for joining us here on The Real News Network.

(Republished from The Real News Network by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Call me a neoliberal shill if you’d like, but I am completely unmoved by this line of argument.

    Argentina has long mismanaged its economy. The previous Kirchner regime left inflation running at a whopping 40%. Worse, they even fudged their inflation statistics for a long time in an attempt to mask the severity of the problem.

    Macri himself made a series of errors. Starting with taking huge loans from foreigners – even before this IMF bailout – by trying to plug a huge current account deficit. In other words, he prioritised growth by debt binging instead of closing down the CAD, which of course implies that growth must fall. Who forced him to make these choices? Who forced Kirchner to fudge inflation statistics? Did the IMF?

    The pathological unwillingness of some on the left to put blame at the feet of national governments is a tired routine. That does not mean that the IMF is without blame, which anyone having read Yanis Varoufakis latest book should know by now. Nevertheless, countries can re-negotiate a deal with the IMF. My own country did so in the early 1990s as we had a large external debt balance and we conducted very tough negotiations with the IMF to re-write a deal. Since then we never had to go back and we are now a net creditor to the IMF. If we could do it, why can’t Argentina, Pakistan, Turkey etc?

  2. slorter says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Your correct you are a neoliberal!
    Hudson been around long enough to know how the IMF works !
    Be interesting to know which country you refer!!

    • Agree: L.K
  3. slorter says:

    very clear article the loan is odious!

  4. I happened to know an Argentine intellectual quite well.
    He reminded me of the statement ‘S American intellectuals sit around and talk about how things should be different, but do nothing’.
    It is a quite corrupt country, where foreign companies get away with anything by bribery.
    The ruling class rules on.
    The army ready to put down any insurrection.

  5. Wally says:

    Argentina is the very definition of leftist economic fiasco.

    A lazy, parasitical, & unproductive neo-Communist Argentina, like Greece, just can’t admit the fact that it can’t carry it’s own weight.

    No pity for Argentina, who wants everything, but produces little.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  6. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    MICHAEL HUDSON: Here’s the problem: When the United States raises interest rates, that causes foreign money to flow into the dollar, because the rest of the world, Europe and other areas are keeping low interest rates. So as money goes into the dollar, to take advantage of the rising interest rates, the dollar rises. That makes it necessary for Argentina or any other country, third world country, to pay more and more pesos in order to buy the dollars to pay that foreign debt.

    Mr Hudson did get this one fairly right. And the US economy is riding very high, and the dollar is quite strong. Now who can tell me what generally happens following this?

    • Replies: @animalogic
    , @Wally
  7. Respect says:

    Well , Hudson , Argentina is in 2018 , not in 2001 , the world is in 2018 , not in 2001 . The 2001 crisis will nor come back in Argentina . The US is still living 1n 1945 .

    Fed up with yankee opinionators , varufuckers of all countries , priests of the economic yankee pseudoreligion , supremacists , and ill wishers .

    Argentina will go ahead , cry for your crumbling USA Hudson , not for Argentina .

  8. Respect says:
    @Polish Perspective

    to : polish perspective

    well , the southern european ( and english ) perspective is that Poland should never have joined the EU , maybe she should have joined her beloved USA … ?? , and Ukraruina can also join Usakistan , or Russia , the EU never ,never , never . never ever .

    Ever since the poles , the baltics , rumanians , hungarians ..and the rest of euro-oriental parasites entered the EU , I want to get out of the EU .

    Fantastic Brexit ( I guess you know the wave of polish fobia that swept England during Brexit referendum ) . I hope Italexit , Spanxit , Francoexit , Portuexit , Greekexit will follow soon . For southern europe it has been a disgrace the euro-orientals entering the EU .

  9. Respect says:

    Hudson , the Malvinas war was a pirric english victory ( with american help ) . In the Malvinas ( Falklands ) war the british navy suffered so many loses and damages that ever since the british navy is a third rate navy , never recuperated . https://www.elmalvinense.com/bajasbritanicas.html

    In Argentina there is a lot of resentment towards the IMF , and towards the USA . If the US led IMF keeps its usury practices , even filoamerican Macri may turn to other powers : the EU , China , Japan , Russia , even latinoamerica .

  10. @Polish Perspective

    Your comment seems to hedge around quite a bit.
    ” That does not mean that the IMF is without blame,” & “Nevertheless, countries can re-negotiate a deal with the IMF. ”
    So, Argentina & the IMF are to blame. Yet, given that, why even allow such a loan ? Regardless of whether it was a left or right government that carries the most blame, why support any kind of loan designed to bail out oligarchs at the expense of the public ? How could an unrepayable loan be renegotiated to become payable when the purpose of the loan is a perfect demonstration of the concept “odious” loan.
    This is a neoliberal hatchet job – I’d be ashamed to claim I was neoliberal on such a basis.

    • Replies: @Polish Perspective
  11. @Anonymous

    I’ve always felt (given the accurate views of a Mr Rothschild as to control of the money supply) that a government that borrows in a foreign currency is more than likely guilty of real treason….

  12. Respect says:

    A 50 billion US $ loan to Argentina , that`s to say to 45 million argentinians , is a 1,100 dollar loan per argentinian capita .

    Well that is nothing , peanuts , how come that ” experts ” are playing the apocalyptic ( and racist ,supremacist ) trumpets of economic collapse for Argentina ????

    How come that the euroyankee supremacists think that the average argentinian can not repay a 1,100 dollar loan ? fools , who the hell you think you are ?

    Or maybe western colonialists are coveting the natural resources of Argentina`s 2,800.000 km2 ??? How disgusting …..

  13. Respect says:

    Poland gets 12 .000 millions of euros / year of subventions from the EU

    From Southern Europe : get out of the EU !!!!!!! we do not want you in the EU !!!!! go to America .

  14. @animalogic

    So, Argentina & the IMF are to blame.

    Argentina certainly is to blame for having to mismanaged their finances on their own so thoroughly for so long. As for the IMF, I take a case-by-case basis. Not every single IMF intervention has been harsh for the recipient country. For instance, they recently had a program with Pakistan in 2014 in which they were ridiculously lax on the Pakistanis.

    How could an unrepayable loan be renegotiated

    Unrepayable only if the mismanagement continues. And it can be renegotiated. As I pointed out, Poland did a strong renegotiation strategy in the early 1990s with the IMF, they are not impossible to reason with. But you need to have good arguments and a credible plan.

    Macri allowed the CAD to fester, naïvely thinking that the easy global liquidity would continue for years to come, so foreign funding of a huge CAD wouldn’t be an issue, only to be caught offside as the fed hiked rates faster than many predicted and Trump lowered US corporate tax rates, thereby boosting the US economy and making the case for a return to ‘safe assets’ stronger. Those who relied on massive foreign funding – Turkey, Pakistan, Argentina – and who also had other weaknessess, such as high inflation or large budget deficits – paid the predictable price. If you do not reform when times are good and run a tight ship, you’ll be naked and exposed when the tide of easy global liquidity is receding.

    If Macri had walked the disciplined path, which would have been unpopular but necessary (take down the CAD but also take a growth hit), then none of this would be necessary. It is too early to tell if the IMF will be unduly harsh as in the case of Greece, or quite soft as in the case of Pakistan’s 2014 bailout. Whatever the case, Poland’s precedent from the early 1990s shows that you can renegotiate any deal you find unsatisfactory, but you need to have strong arguments and a credible long-term plan.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @animalogic
  15. @Polish Perspective

    Polish boy is being very dishonest. Poland received £56 billion in Development Funds from the EU in the period 2007-13 and is due to receive £60 billion for the period 2014-20. That doesn’t include money received prior to 2007. None of this Poland has to pay back.

  16. @Wally

    Stick to battling the lies regarding “the holocaust”; your economic views about usurious public debt are not exactly enlightening.

    What type of economic system do you think the Germans sadly and unsuccessfully tried mightily to avoid becoming enslaved to?

    Try reading Perkins’ Confessions of an Economic Hit Man and check out Ron Unz’s fine column describing the goons who funded the Commies.

    When people casually used to joke about the total insanity of “anti-Semitic conspiracy theories” no better example was ever tossed around than the self-evidently absurd notion that the international Jewish bankers had created the worldwide Communist movement. And yet by any reasonable standard, this statement appears to be more or less true,

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-bolshevik-revolution-and-its-aftermath/

    Who the bleep do you think is responsible for the new Argentine fiasco Hudson is lamenting? And please remember, that if you’re an American, you’re a citizen of the most indebted country and corrupt in the world which is also the really sick enforcement arm of the biggest and most cruel protection racket in the world.

    “… I spent most of my [33 years in the Marine Corps] being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

    In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for [crony] capitalism.”

    Major General Butler USMC, War is a Racket, 1935

    http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

    • Agree: Carroll Price
  17. What do you call an Italian who speaks Spanish and thinks he is British? An Argentine.

    Blessed with tremendous natural resources, the Argies have managed to screw up everything economically, going from one of the richest countries in the world, right into the Third World. The problem is not Argentina. It is the Argentine people. Corrupt, arrogant and lazy. The rest of South America hates them, and for good reason.

    • Replies: @Respect
    , @Wally
    , @Z-man
  18. The problem is not Argentina. It is the Argentine people.

    Which people?

    I’m guessing it’s the 1% who are the most corrupt. Correct me where I’m wrong.

    PS: Your description of Argentina applies equally well to the US ( a corrupt and indebted third world strip mall republic) and other large (and some small) political entities.

  19. Respect says:
    @Hannah Katz

    From which superior race are you ?

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  20. Let’s hope Michael Hudson is correct.

    The last time the Argies blew up their economy and collapsed their currency, my brother was able to stay in the finest hotels of Buenos Aires and enjoy the finest meals for just ten Dollars per day.

    And it’s not like Latin Americans deserve to have a good standard of living to begin with, so I see only upsides here.

  21. @jacques sheete

    I largely accept the conclusions of Perkins and Butler, but don’t see the problem.

    Why shouldn’t our foreign policy maximize profits? It’s not like Third Worlders deserve (or are even capable of) affluence.

    A major problem with US foreign policy since the latest 1930s is the prioritization of “security” (and Zionism) over commercial interests.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Dan
  22. Respect says:
    @Verymuchalive

    Churchill said Poland was the hyena of Europe before WWII .

    Poland destroyed USSR and the Catholic Church with its Woytilas & Walensas , and will end up destroying the EU and even the USA

  23. gsjackson says:
    @jacques sheete

    Agreed. A friend of mine ran into a classmate at a reunion not too long ago. The classmate, a Jewish fellow who enjoys a lofty position in the IMF hierarchy, rather candidly was bragging about all the countries they/we own, Argentina included.

  24. TomV says:

    Hudson:“A don’t see how the Argentina situation can be solved without violence”

    News report: “Argentina’s President Mauricio Macri has given the green light to the creation of several US military bases on his country’s territory, media reported citing sources.
    According to the Mexican news portal Aristegui Noticias, at least three US bases could be established in the provinces of Neuquen, Misiones and Tierra del Fuego. Their creation would be financed by the US Southern Command.

    • Replies: @Vidi
    , @Colin Wright
  25. @Thorfinnsson

    Why shouldn’t our foreign policy maximize profits?

    What do you mean by profits and who should profit? Long term profits or short term? Both or neither or what? Profits by any means, such as debt slavery, or what? Mafia bosses and politicians often roll in profits. What have you to say about that.

    A major problem with US foreign policy since the latest 1930s is the prioritization of “security” (and Zionism) over commercial interests.

    Close.

    A mucho mejor problem with US foreign policy since 1913 (not ’302) is the prioritization of the agendas of the chosen “elite” of 0.001%. Smedley Butler and countless others were correct.

    Recall the origins of the IMF, ( Bretton Woods and brainchild of Keynes and H D White(the swine), )in fact. None of what Hudson describes should surprise any of us, but what amazes me is the naivete shown in assigning blame, when it should be obvious.

    PS: I can do ya one better. I “dined” at the finest hotel in East Berlin decades ago for a pittance, but I wouldn’t want to impose that sick system on anyone for the bennies they afforded me.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  26. Ooops..

    I wrote,… since 1913 (not ’302).

    Should have been … since 1913 (not ’30s).

  27. History shows that buying the elites of a small inconsequential country is relatively cheap. It is said that fools learn from their mistakes, whereas smart people learn from the mistakes of the fools. Now, what do you call people who don’t learn even from their own mistakes? This is an important question, as we need to know what to call Argentinians and Ukies.

  28. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    said:
    “Who the bleep do you think is responsible for the new Argentine fiasco Hudson is lamenting? ”

    The lazy, unproductive, leftist Argentinians, that’s who. Pay attention.

    I’ve read all those. Yawn. They do no disprove the fact that lazy Argentina, like Greece, cannot carry it’s own weight.

    Argentina has been living off others like forever.

    ‘The first time it’s on them, after that it’s on you.’

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @utu
    , @Vidi
  29. anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:

    The criminal zionist jews CONTROL WOLRD ECONOMY AND KILL CHILDREN FOR THE BENEFITS OF ZIONIST TRIBE. EDUCATE YOURSELF AND DESTROY THESE CRIMINALS AND THIER TRIBE.

    Please watch the following EXCELLENT AND INFORMATIVE video to know who is responsible for so much blood shed and runs it.

    https://richardedmondson.net/2014/03/20/a-jew-at-the-pinnacle-of-world-power/

  30. @Respect

    “the british navy suffered so many loses and damages that ever since the british navy is a third rate navy , never recuperated . ”

    Complete nonsense.

    We lost 2 frigates – Ardent and Antelope – 2 destroyers – Sheffield and Coventry – and the LSL Sir Galahad

    These were replaced by the 4 Batch 3 Broadsword class Frigates commissioned between 88 and 90 and a new Sir Galahad commissioned in 87.

    The decline of the RN started with the defence cuts made after the collapse of the USSR and was deepened by the decades of incompetence, corruption and adoption of PC since then.

    • Replies: @Respect
    , @peterAUS
  31. Wally says:
    @Anonymous

    What happens is that lazy, Marxist Argentina wants other people to bail them out, as usual.

    The people of Argentina must face the consequences of their behavior.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  32. Wally says:
    @Respect

    Whatever race she’s part of, Hannah certainly has it right.

    Your desperate attempt to use race is noted, Maxine.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  33. Anonymous[366] • Disclaimer says:
    @Respect

    You know the answer lol.

    That’s why they keep getting kicked out of every country they are a part of.

  34. Respect says:
    @nearhorburian

    BBC , British Bullshit Corporation

    you almost lost the fleet in the Malvinas , and the yankees saved your ass . You should have compromised with the argentinians in the Malvinas , you arrogant senile imperialists , greedy colonialists

    your royal navy is , as you recognize , decadent , low class .

    Next war the argentinians will buy more missiles .

  35. Z-man says:
    @Hannah Katz

    Hanna go suck an egg. Katz? LOL

  36. gwynedd1 says:

    I remember when lazy and corrupt was a good reason not to loan someone money. Really showing my age here…

  37. Dan says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    “It’s not like Third Worlders deserve (or are even capable of) affluence.”

    One needn’t be a died in the wool bleeding heart to see how sick a statement this is. It’s also grossly ignorant. The “third world” is the way it is because of “first world” deception and brutality. And one needn’t be a died in the wool “leftist” to understand that. Even a cursory study of indigenous populations is quite illustrative, if one is willing to abandon preconceived notions and actually learn something.

    • Agree: Mike P, jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  38. @gwynedd1

    In many cases lazy and corrupt is still a good reason not to loan someone money. However, geopolitics often overrides that. E.g., if being corrupt precluded borrowing, Ukraine wouldn’t be able to get a penny, yet it borrowed tens of billions since 2014, which it will never repay. IMF is not a financial tool, it is a geopolitical tool. Hence this loan.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  39. peterAUS says:
    @Polish Perspective

    …The pathological unwillingness of some on the left to put blame at the feet of national governments is a tired routine….

    Agree.

  40. peterAUS says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Good post.
    Especially:

    Argentina certainly is to blame for having to mismanaged their finances on their own so thoroughly for so long. As for the IMF, I take a case-by-case basis.

    and

    Unrepayable only if the mismanagement continues. And it can be renegotiated.

    But you need to have good arguments and a credible plan.

    with

    If you do not reform when times are good and run a tight ship, you’ll be naked and exposed when the tide of easy global liquidity is receding.

    The problem with Argentine is cultural.
    As already pointed out in comments here:

    …It is a quite corrupt country…

    as a tip of the iceberg.

  41. @jacques sheete

    Butler describes the era of “Dollar Diplomacy”, when US foreign policy deliberately forced foreign markets open.

    Since the second Roosevelt administration the pattern has been instead to trade access to the American market for “security” objectives. More or less what Trump complains about.

    Long-term profits should be the goal, and by promoting the export of manufactured goods ordinary workers will share in the prosperity.

    Why for instance is South America permitted to operate MERCOSUR with high tariff barriers against American produced goods? It’s absurd. The Taft Administration could’ve solved that in a weekend with a little gunboat diplomacy.

    The IMF is mainly a racket to provide do-nothing jobs to connected people who couldn’t survive in private industry, and of course to bail out politically favored countries who wouldn’t be able to get credit on commercial terms (and, of course, to protect foolish Western banks).

    It should be disbanded and everyone who works there forced to get a real job flipping hamburgers.

  42. @Dan

    False.

    Third Worlders are biologically inferior and not capable of organizing or running modern societies.

    They’re only useful if they’re exploited by First World populations. Otherwise they simply engage in subsistence agriculture, and any surpluses available are skimmed off by the corrupt local elites.

    Take the extreme case of blacks for instance–basically completely useless unless enslaved.

    Better populations like mestizos, Southeast Asians, Indians, etc. can be relied upon as wage laborers without much coercion.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @jacques sheete
  43. Ranger67 says:

    I really enjoy the Unz Review and believe it is a site where Ron consistently posts articles that stimulate the intellectual curiosity in intelligent and well read individuals. I also usually enjoy reading the comments section to get a feeling of what others think of the article and sometimes learn more about the subject matter from links provided.

    There are several comments above, however, that I believe have no place on this site. There is absolutely no reason for “Southern European” and others to make disparaging comments about and personal attacks on Poles, Argentinians, Brits, and others in response to well thought out and researched comments by individuals they do not agree with or do not like racially or ethnically. If they don’t have the intellectual capacity to debate another individual in a logical and civil manner, they have no business posting here.

    I fear that allowing the comments section to degenerate into a cesspool of hate filled name calling will greatly diminish the value of the site to individuals who truly desire intellectual stimulation and debate and might well drive some of the best and most informed commenters elsewhere. Maybe that is exactly what these few individuals hope to achieve.

    I hope Ron will see my comments and take appropriate steps to remove these types of posts from his site.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
    , @peterAUS
  44. As long as world populations continue to increase our world financial systems will be Okay. The problem is that in 1st world nations the population are shrinking, and that means the 1st world nations need to increase the immigration rate from Africa and ME for the financial systems to continue.

    There will be civil wars in the future, you can count on that. Either that or a large powerful police state.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  45. @Ranger67

    There is in fact every reason.

    Personal attacks rule.

    Dweebs like you are to blame for garbage websites like Reddit ruining the internet by turning it into a gigantic hugbox.

    That said Southern European should learn how to read and write.

  46. peterAUS says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    Cold and harsh, but at the same time, something is there.

  47. peterAUS says:
    @Ranger67

    Good comment.

    A suggestion if I may:
    a) Develop skim reading.
    b) Skip over worthless.
    c) Put the, ahm, “unpleasant”, into your ignore list.

    It’s not so bad to have those, shitty, comments here. They are also a feedback of sort.
    Then, it’s not a bad way to observe and learn about people, cultures…stuff like that.

    And, of course, as soon as you start censoring you start sliding down a slippery slope. Always finishes with

    …drive some of the best and most informed commenters elsewhere

    by its very nature. Censorship I mean.

    My two cents.

  48. peterAUS says:
    @europeasant

    There will be civil wars in the future, you can count on that. Either that or a large powerful police state.

    Agree.
    And, I’d say sometimes “both” instead of “either”. Civil war resulting in police state or police state resulting in civil war.
    Fun times.

  49. republic says:

    I think that Argentina has a big open borders movement like in the US, in Argentina it is not illegals from Mexico but illegals from Bolivia, Paraguay and Chile. So Argentina which was once famous for being a white country is following the same trends as in the US, Canada, NZ, Australia, the UK and Western European countries and slowing becoming less white.

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  50. @Wally

    Ok, Wally and all the rest who blame “the Argentinians” I’ll hold you lazy curs responsible for the debt of the US. The US elite (and you who support them) have been living off of the rest of the world for decades.

    The IMF is another racket. A sheep shearing racket run by the usual thugs and their political tools. You and I pay. Why is that so hard?

    Wally, you’re an expert on WW2. What do you think that was all about? What do you people think the Commie movement was all about? I’ll put it simply: It was all about wealth transfer and imposing a monetary system that no one could escape and that would benefit mainly a few chosen ones.Now that its been in place for decades, you defend it.

    Nutz.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    , @Wally
  51. @Wally

    The people of Argentina must face the consequences of their behavior.

    “The people,” I assume you mean the masses, of Argentina have no more control over the imposition of public debt on them by their criminal politicians and the criminal IMF bankers than you or I have over the indebtedness of the US government. If you think they do, please explain.

    Th bankers know perfectly well that the purposes of the loans are to loot the masses, and they know the risks. They and their politician friends should be held responsible by YOU and me, the ones who are forced to foot the bill in the end.

  52. @Wally

    Whatever race she’s part of, Hannah certainly has it right.

    Your desperate attempt to use race is noted, Maxine.

    See response #34.

    • Replies: @Wally
  53. @gwynedd1

    I remember when lazy and corrupt was a good reason not to loan someone money. Really showing my age here…

    Bingo!

    But don’t tell Wally and the rest of the statist dolts.

    • Replies: @Wally
  54. @Verymuchalive

    > muh billions

    Learn per capita, unless it is too difficult for you.

    BTW:

    The notion that these EU funds are a “gift” is complete nonsense. Nothing is free in life. CEE in general pays a much greater cost in private outflows + emigration.

    Not that you’d understand an argument made out of more than a single part, though :)

    • Replies: @Respect
    , @Verymuchalive
    , @utu
  55. @Thorfinnsson

    The IMF is mainly a racket to provide do-nothing jobs to connected people who couldn’t survive in private industry, and of course to bail out politically favored countries who wouldn’t be able to get credit on commercial terms (and, of course, to protect foolish Western banks).

    It should be disbanded and everyone who works there forced to get a real job flipping hamburgers.

    You’re getting close, but don’t tell Wally, the “ekonumist.” I wonder where sam (the Divine) Shama is? He and Wally could chant “Debt is Good” together and make the goof, Krugman, smile.

  56. @Thorfinnsson

    Otherwise they simply engage in subsistence agriculture, and any surpluses available are skimmed off by the corrupt local elites.

    And that must really piss off the corrupt global elites who are not used to getting cut out of the deal so handily.

    Can you explain why the corrupt global elite wanted to turn industrial Germany into an agricultural economy,and nearly succedded? Must’ve been other, overriding concerns, eh? ;)

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  57. Respect says:

    Aproximate figures :

    USA GDP 17,000.000 ,000.000 US$ 17 trillion
    320.000.000 people , per capita income 53.000 US dollars

    USA national debt 21 ,000.000,000.000 21 trillion , 120% of PIB
    320,000.000 people , debt per capita , 65.000 US dollars , 120% of yearly income per capita

    Argentina ( provisional data in dollars before the devaluation of last month , which doubtless will be followed by more inflation in the coming months )

    GDP 650.000 ,000.000 US $
    45.000.000 people , per capita income 14,400 US dollars
    Argentina National debt 350.000 ,000.000 US dollars , aprox. 60 % of PIB , debt per capita about 8.000 US $ per capita

    So , Argentina is in trouble , yes but so is the USA and many other countries of the world . Many comments ,probably from self satisfied westeners have shown disdain , ridicule , laugh , jokes , lack of respect , contempt , and utter joy , yes , utter joy as well as racial supremacism towards argentinians and their problems , what is unacceptable , completely unacceptable , and even more unacceptable considering that Argentina collaborates with the west .

    If the self satisfied westeners want to be respected they will also have to respect poorer countries , if not they will not be respected . In Argentina live children , elderly , lazy people as well as competent hard working people , like in any country . It is pathetic that some comments viciously denigrate ,attack and ridicule Argentina , even some coming from countries which are as poor as Argentina , or worse . If Argentina is not respected , Argentina will not respect you .

  58. @Thorfinnsson

    Since the second Roosevelt administration the pattern has been instead to trade access to the American market for “security” objectives.

    Security?

    You really believe that? Let me introduce you to the concept of “pretense.” Get it?

    How are we supposed to take you seriously when you write something like that?

    • Replies: @Thorfinnsson
  59. No one is forcing the IMF to grant the loans, but those hacks and their politician buddies are forcing the loans on the masses of Argentina, and in turn, the are really increasing the debt burden of the gulled US taxpayer, who is ultimately saddled with even more debt.

    The IMF should be abolished and all the directors, supporters and profiteers ought to be jailed. For “security” purposes, of course.

    • Replies: @Wally
  60. peterAUS says:
    @nearhorburian

    Hehe….you are breaking the only rule when discussing Falklands war: doing it with an Argentine.
    O.K. maybe too harsh. If a guy you are chatting was a member of 601 and 602 Commando, that’s O.K. Them only.

    I presume you’ve read the book “Razor’s Edge: The Unofficial History of the Falklands War”. If you haven’t give it a shot.
    Chapters “Guilt”, “Complicity” and “Shame” in particular.

  61. There are those (me) who think that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) is a huge load of worthless, corrupt crap, not only because their dismal record pretty much shows that they are miserable failures, but because that is the way things always end up when someone is given power and money in huge amounts, or even in moderate amounts.

    - THE MOGAMBO GURU, The IMF, the EMF and All the Worthless Money In Between

    https://dailyreckoning.com/the-imf-the-emf-and-all-the-worthless-money-in-between/

    Even he’s only partially correct. It’s a con game operated under the guise of some sort of benevolent organization.

    Don’t be suckered. Again.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  62. @republic

    https://www.amren.com/features/2017/04/argentina-a-mirror-of-your-future-buenos-aires-latin-america/

    There’s more to it than this, however.

    Argentina was very prosperous a century ago because its population was small and prices for its exports (nearly all primary products) were high.

    In the interwar period prices collapsed.

    Peron tried to revive prosperity through import-substitution industrialization, with mixed results (production did indeed increase, but imports of capital goods skyrocketed).

    The old landed elite viewed Peron as a demonic figure and came to see industrialism as some sort of sin, and when it returned to power it treated labor savagely.

    • Replies: @republic
  63. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    If Argentinians better managed their economy, they wouldn’t need these loans.

    But you know how Latins are. They like to work as little as possible and take as much as possible from the state while paying as little as possible into the system.

  64. Respect says:

    Ranger ,

    I claim the right of self defense , if there are guys who attack , insult , ridicule and despise southern europeans , argentinians , latinos or wherever it be , I claim the right to self defense . If all the hostile comments should be removed , they should be removed from whenever they come from : from southern Europe , yes , but also from northern Europe , from eastern Europe , from western Europe , from the Americas , from the middle east , or from hell itself .

    And thank you very much to Unz , and the patience he shows with his querulant chicken garden . Really Unz , you have a unique blog , very interesting and fun ( despite of the quarreling , or maybe thanks to the quarreling , because without some quarreling ir would not be so fun )

  65. Respect says:
    @Polish Perspective

    So , you have a good reason to leave the EU , go , go away . We do not want you . Go back to Russia who gave you cheap oil and gas .

  66. @jacques sheete

    The plan was opposed by significant factions of the elite right from the beginning, and they eventually succeeded in scrapping the plan. The British dropped support almost immediately after Churchill’s departure, and most of the State and War Departments in America were opposed.

    Not that they were consulted, but I doubt very much Wall Street liked the plan. Starving nations aren’t creditworthy borrowers after all.

    Without the Soviet Union, sure, maybe the plan would’ve been put into place.

    Can I explain why? Sure, a combination of Jewish vengeance and the widespread feeling that Germany was solely responsible for launching the two world wars.

  67. @jacques sheete

    Did you ignore the quote marks or something?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  68. @Polish Perspective

    But without the very considerable foreign investment, as well as EU aid, there wouldn’t be any real growth in these economies at all and little in the way of profits to export,
    As you don’t advocate exchange controls and the retention of profits within the individual national economies, then you are obviously a Neoliberal, despite your protestations to the contrary.

  69. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    And the lazy Argentinian masses support taking other people’s money.

    The Marxist Argentinian masses are the epitome of “statists”.

    Try harder, Jacques, as we laugh a yet another Argentine debacle.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @L.K
  70. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Yet the Argentine public supports taking these loans.
    Oops!

  71. Wally says:
    @Anon

    Nailed it.

    It’s always ‘manana, manana’.

  72. @Thorfinnsson

    Starving nations aren’t creditworthy borrowers after all.

    Whether they are creditworthy or not is beside the point. The point is to subjugate people, not to give them credit or anything other than grief and the bootheel. Uncreditworthy people can be easier to loot, in fact.

    As an example, look at how the mortgage scams work. It’s all variations on a theme; the theme being, let’s see how far we can go to grab everything for ourselves while making the proles grovel for crumbs.

  73. ohmy says:

    WTF! Isn’t anyone paying attention? Look at what is happening to Greece. The USA, my country, will pay the bankers $500 billion in interest just for 2018, and it’s tax free. We’re just the largest debtor, there’s over a hundred other nations playing their game. Once a year we all run out to buy Forbes magazine’s issue, richest men in the world. And each year the list is missing the same names, Rothschild, Rockefeller, Schiff, Loeb, Warburg, Brown, Lehman etc. These people are divide and share trillions each year, yet produce nothing, zilch. They are vampires, and we are brainwashed. Wake up people or you’re all through. I doubt there is an innocent politician alive. How can I say that? Because, throughout history the bankers have murdered every man who came even close to exposing them. For the centuries of crime the penalty should be blood for blood.
    Michael Hudson has a noble answer. The debtor countries should band together and together with adjusting their current debt balances the nations have to insist on paying in t the banks in the debtor nation’s own currency. Will it ever happen? Maybe when the wolf is at our door, but that may be too late.

  74. @Thorfinnsson

    The plan was opposed by significant factions of the elite right from the beginning,

    Yes. Even “the elite” are not monolithic. (Thank G-wd…I just wish they’d fight their own battles and wars.)

  75. @Thorfinnsson

    Can I explain why? Sure, a combination of Jewish vengeance and the widespread feeling that Germany was solely responsible for launching the two world wars.

    No, no, no.

    That’s not how things work. No one gives a crap about Jewish vengeance (though the phenomenon is real), and no one gives a damn about widespread beliefs of the masses.

    Try again. Hint: To whom can one grant loans? Another hint: Which is more likely to “need” a loan, a dependent nation or an industrialized, independent, competitive one?

    Here’s a primer for ya, and it appears, an excellent one.:

    The international version of the game called Bailout is similar to the domestic version in that the overall objective is to have the taxpayers cover the defaulted loans so that interest payments can continue going to the banks. The differences are: (1) instead of justifying this as protecting the American public, the pretense is that it is to save the world from poverty; and (2) the main money pipeline goes from the Federal Reserve through the IMF /World Bank. Otherwise, the rules are basically the same.

    There is another dimension to the game, however, that involves more than mere profits and scam. It is the conscious and deliberate evolution of the IMF/World Bank into a world central bank with the power to issue a world fiat currency. And that is an important step in an even larger plan to build a true world government within the framework of the United Nations.

    Economically strong nations are not candidates for surrendering their sovereignty to a world government. Therefore, through “loans” that will never be paid back, the IMF /World Bank directs the massive transfer of wealth from the industrialized nations to the less developed nations. This ongoing process eventually drains their economies to the point where they also will be in need of assistance. No longer capable of independent action, they will accept the loss of sovereignty in return for international aid.
    The less developed countries, on the other hand, are being brought into The New World Order along an entirely different route.

    https://www.thomhartmann.com/users/dr-peterpalms/blog/2015/10/building-new-world-order-imf-and-world-bank-and-taxpayers-pay-bill

    All emphases mine.

    PS: And the typical ‘Merkin taxpayer thinks his country won the world wars. All I can say is that they continue to be suckers. The US prole paid, and is still paying, for those criminal theatrics. Dumbasses.

  76. republic says:
    @Thorfinnsson

    thanks for posting that amren article, I remember reading it. I have visited Argentina several times beginning during the “dirty war,” of the mid 70s and I was actually there during the great economic meltdown of 2001-02.

  77. Vidi says:
    @TomV

    According to the Mexican news portal Aristegui Noticias, at least three US bases could be established in the provinces of Neuquen, Misiones and Tierra del Fuego. Their creation would be financed by the US Southern Command.

    I wonder if this has anything to do with the purchase of an immense amount of land in Patagonia, Argentina, by the Jewish billionaire Joe Lewis, a friend of George Soros. Apparently the newly purchased land is several times larger than Israel.

    Thierry Meysson speculates:

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article198968.html

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
    , @republic
  78. @Wally

    Meaning?

    Wally Wally Wally.

    How can a person smart enough to see through the fraud of “the” holocaust fail to see the other lies and scams related to that one?

    If a person such as yourself feels the need to ask, “meaning?,” then there is no hope. None. Nor is there any way to explain. And I am not even going to try at this point.

    To paraphrase Aquinas, “For those who know and understand, there is no need to explain; for those who do not know or understand, there is no way to.”

    You’ll need to figure this stuff out yourself, but I doubt that’ll happen. Good luck.

  79. @AnonFromTN

    E.g., if being corrupt precluded borrowing, Ukraine wouldn’t be able to get a penny, yet it borrowed tens of billions since 2014, which it will never repay. IMF is not a financial tool, it is a geopolitical tool. Hence this loan.

    The loans will never be repaid. This is known by the loaning entity “going in”. Remember that bank loan committee members are not loaning their own (god forbid) money; it is depositor money (i.e. your money). Those who authorize the disbursement of funds demand conditions, guarantees that return benefit to them. Stuff like trade policy, exchange rate, leases on property of value, rights of way, sea-port access, conditions imposed on where and how the money will be spent, etc.). You and your neighbor in New Jersey end up on the hook for the loan; those authorizing the loan get even more filthy rich.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @gsjackson
  80. @jacques sheete

    What? Wait … what do you mean?

  81. Read John Perkins’ book
    “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.” The Argentinian people need to remove their puppet president from office.

  82. @Vidi

    I wonder if this has anything to do with the purchase of an immense amount of land in Patagonia, Argentina, by the Jewish billionaire Joe Lewis, a friend of George Soros. Apparently the newly purchased land is several times larger than Israel.

    There ya go. That’s how it works. Jew buys wasteland for penny an acre. US taxpayer gives Jew $100 an acre for wasteland for use as military base.

  83. republic says:
    @Vidi

    Lots of the world’s super rich are looking for a new place to live in the Southern Hemisphere in case of a financial crisis, some are buying properties in Patagonia, others in New Zealand.
    World statesmen have recently visited Antarctica for unknown reasons. That article also mention elite Israelis looking at property in Argentina/Chile.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  84. KA says:
    @Polish Perspective

    All l know that Anerica is trying to turn Iraq into Argentina . The killing of honest leaders and promotion of corrupt leaders are part of the equation to get that result

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  85. @Anon

    But you know how Latins are. They like to work as little as possible and take as much as possible from the state while paying as little as possible into the system.

    Bingo. And now they are 51% of the US population.

    The un-repaid loan scam has worked — been foisted on working Americans — since when? FDR’s New Deal? But now, there ain’t no working Americans. How will the banks/elite get money out of the illegals?

    This should all collapse soon. 2040 seems about right.

    • Replies: @L.K
  86. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    IOW, you can’t explain away the fact that the lazy & unproductive Argentine people want & approve of these loans.

    If they were openly rejecting the loans and the loans were still being made against their will, then maybe you & comrade Hudson would have a point, but they are not.

    Simple stuff really.

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @Dillon Sweeny
  87. @Respect

    ‘Hudson , the Malvinas war was a pirric english victory ( with american help ) . In the Malvinas ( Falklands ) war the british navy suffered so many loses and damages that ever since the british navy is a third rate navy , never recuperated …

    Yet another crushing Argentinian victory, then.

  88. @TomV

    ‘…According to the Mexican news portal Aristegui Noticias, at least three US bases could be established in the provinces of Neuquen, Misiones and Tierra del Fuego. Their creation would be financed by the US Southern Command.’

    At least we won’t be able to get into too much trouble there. What are we going to do, seize the Beagle Straits?

    Every Marine who is in Tierra del Fuego is one who isn’t in Iran. I’m for this.

  89. @KA

    ‘All l know that Anerica is trying to turn Iraq into Argentina . The killing of honest leaders and promotion of corrupt leaders are part of the equation to get that result’

    I’d certainly rather be in Argentina than Iraq, so I fail to see why anyone should object to that.

    …but seriously. Trout in Iraq?

  90. @Wally

    IOW, you can’t explain away the fact that the lazy & unproductive Argentine people want & approve of these loans.

    Not all Argentines are lazy and unproductive. No more so than Americans being lazy and unproductive.

    Much like the situation developing in the USA (once the very definition of a productive people), where more and more people who believe in being productive, and who prefer to be productive, are recognizing that the deck is stacked against them. Stacked so effectively as to prohibit circumscription — no way to win. Once-productive American workers now sit back,watch the Messicans being exploited, and wait.

    Eventually, rebellion is inevitable, ill-fated and insufficient though it may be. Say, in 2040?

    • Replies: @Wally
  91. This whole thing is about arranging for every nation-state to enter the Bankruptcy court all at the same time. That way the Globalists hope to arrange to get all the assets, and leave all the debt in the hands of us mutts.

    The IMF plans (with the able assistance of every banker (central and not) of note on the planet) to subordinate all currencies to the ONLY recognized unit, the Special Drawing Right issued by (wait for it…) the IMF. Every currency (Euro, U$D, Pound, Peso, Remnibi/Yuan, Ruble etc) will be officially reduced to the category of local scrip. As though it were not so already.

    The global debt reset will be couched as a revaluation of existing denomination currency into the SDR. It will be sold (and bought, before they try to return it) as a “Social Justice” necessity, combined with “Too Big to Fail” excuses to keep the thieves in power with enough of the “victims” supporting or at least acquiescing. The poor people will be all in favor, the world over.

    So, all you broke MFs all over the world, all 4.5 billion of you? Fear not. Broke now, and broke in the future. No change. Maybe a free 5g smartphone in it for you.

    All you REALLY rich, hooked up folks, you top 1% of the 10%? As long as you boys and girls play ball and kiss the right asses, you can keep your yacht. Maybe get a nice young girlfriend, too.

    All you folks like me? Worked hard, paid taxes, lived (sort of) responsibly, thought yourself respeonsible and (sort of) respectable? Thinking you have a little money, own some negotiable securities, got a pension coming, own and operate a profitable small business? You are SCREWED. All gone, every dime of it. As sure as the sun rises in he East. Nothing you can do about it, no place to hide that you want to live in. They are going global and all at once.

    Oh it will be a few years yet, but not too long. Don’t get mad, this has been coming for a long time.

    After the Globalist scheme (essentially like Mr. Madoff and Mr. Ponzi) fails, then things will get really sporty! Tell your children (between 6 and 20 years old) about it. They will have some interesting opportunities when middle age comes on them.

  92. L.K says:
    @Wally

    And the lazy Argentinian masses

    I bet most Argentinians work harder than you ever did in your life.

    The truth is you don’t know a damn thing about economics and merely regurgitate neoliberal dogmas.

    Every single time I come read Hudson’s excellent articles I find you here attacking him and repeating stupid neoliberal mantras.
    As a “right-wing” Zamerican, you see Hudson as a “Commie”, cause you see commies under every bed.

    I guess Dr.P.C. Roberts must be another ‘commie’ too!

    http://michael-hudson.com/2017/04/paul-craig-roberts-on-junk-economics/

    Paul Craig Roberts

    If you want to learn real economics instead of neoliberal junk economics, read Michael Hudson’s books.

    What you will learn is that neoliberal economics is an apology for the rentier class and the large banks that have succeeded in financializing the economy, shifting consumer spending power from the purchase of goods and services that drive the real economy to the payment of interest and fees to banks. …

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jacques sheete
  93. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Show me us a graph with all EU countries and you will realize that total outflow>total inflow. And the ask the question where the difference went or a better question about definition “outflow” and “inflow”. You and Hudson are suckers for stats.

  94. L.K says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    But you know how Latins are. They like to work as little as possible and take as much as possible from the state while paying as little as possible into the system. Bingo.

    BS.

    And now they are 51% of the US population.

    More BS. Hispanic % of US pop. is more like 18%.

  95. utu says:
    @Wally

    Wally, did CODOH fire you? Where are the links to CODOH? You will not be paid for these comments.

  96. utu says:
    @Polish Perspective

    Yes, you are a neoliberal shill.

  97. Wally says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    No one said all Argentines are lazy, no false strawman arguments; but most certainly are. They prove it everyday, their economy proves it, constant bailouts prove it. Visiting Argentina confirms it.

    You can’t be serious. Americans are way past them in work ethic, just compare the economies, compare who makes what.

    And you still can’t explain away the fact that the Argentine people want & approve of these loans.

    If they were openly rejecting the loans and the loans were still being made against their will, then maybe you would have a point, but they are not.

  98. L.K says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey Jacques,

    You said to Wally:

    Wally Wally Wally.

    How can a person smart enough to see through the fraud of “the” holocaust fail to see the other lies and scams related to that one?

    Ideological intoxication is the explanation, my friend… in ‘wally’s’ case, typical Zamerican “right-wing” intoxication, a thread of which is to repeat, like a drone, neoliberal garbage as if it were good science. This is particularly bizarre considering that wally does not appear to be critical of National Socialism’s economic policies…
    Funny thing though, if the National Socialists had practiced wally’s economic “views”, one thing is for sure; the German economic miracle and very fast economic revival would have never occurred…

    J.S to wally:

    If a person such as yourself feels the need to ask, “meaning?,” then there is no hope. None. Nor is there any way to explain. And I am not even going to try at this point.

    You’ll need to figure this stuff out yourself, but I doubt that’ll happen. Good luck.

    There is indeed no hope & Wally won’t even try.
    He’ll hold to his dogmas as fast as the holohoaxters hold to theirs! :-)

    Great posts btw!

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  99. L.K says:
    @Wally

    Your reply to this Dillon Sweeny guy is so bad, so stupid, that it can only have been written by a very lazy person… and you have never been to Argentina.

    • Replies: @Wally
  100. gsjackson says:
    @jacques sheete

    Yes, really. Who is this guy, and what has he done with Wally?

    • Replies: @Wally
  101. Vidi says:
    @republic

    Lots of the world’s super rich are looking for a new place to live in the Southern Hemisphere in case of a financial crisis, some are buying properties in Patagonia, others in New Zealand.

    Why would even a billionaire need an area several times the size of Israel?

  102. gsjackson says:
    @Dillon Sweeny

    Assuming IMF loans are originated in the same way they are in most banks, around 90 percent of the loaned money isn’t deposited funds, it’s stroke-of-the-keyboard, made from scratch, new money. Actually, does the IMF have any deposited funds at all?

    It’s called the fractional reserve system, if anybody’s unfamiliar with the concept. The banks make up fake money to give you to buy a real house, then when you can’t pay the fake money back they take the house. Such a deal!

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  103. Wally says:
    @gsjackson

    Jacques painted himself into a corner, embarrassed himself, and now has only childish replies.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  104. Wally says:
    @L.K

    That’s it? That’s your low IQ response?

    You still can’t explain away the fact that the Argentine people want & approve of these loans. You simply dodge that fact.

    But then there it is, in all it’s glory, the usual Argentine’s Marxist laziness & inability to carry their own bloated weight.

    Anyway, I have been to Argentina numerous times. Will be going again later this year. If those lazy ass clowns aren’t on strike or something. LOL

    Cheers.

  105. @L.K

    Hispanics in the United States are Indians. Argentinians are mostly Italians and Spanish whites. How many Argentinians look like MS-13?

    Those are jungle Indians.

    Some posters on here will try and claim that illegal immigrants are Mestizos but they are basically Aztecs and some jungle tribes from Central American.

    No white from Latin America has any reason to come to the United States and live in the poverty of East Los Angeles, save whites from Cuba.

  106. @L.K

    Latin?

    The illegal immigrants in the United States are a bunch of Indians who look like Filipinos and like the Filipinos the ruling elite are a few Spanish aristocrat families.

    You might be able to classify the average Cuban in Miami as a Latin-Ricky Martin has played Italians and Pacino has played Cubans.

    But the problem in North America are Aztecs and other Indians from prehistoric Asian tribes who like the Polynesians belong to some ancient branch of the Mongoloid race that predates modern East Asians.

  107. Wally says:
    @L.K

    said:
    “I bet most Argentinians work harder than you ever did in your life.
    The truth is you don’t know a damn thing about economics and merely regurgitate neoliberal dogmas.”

    You lose then. No they haven’t & do not.

    What dogmas have I “regurgitated”? Yawn.

    Sorry, but it’s obviously the Argentines who “don’t know a damn thing about economics”. LOL

    Argentine Marxist laziness & lack of productivity is well known & rather glaring. After all, it is they who keep getting bailed out.

    Well, they do have the tango.

    Keep trying though, this is entertaining.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  108. @Vidi

    The 1% won’t move to Argentina because it is Los Angeles on steroids. Even Israel is not that attractive to the Jewish ones.

    They’ll move to New Zealand or Australia, those last bastions of Anglo-Saxon stability.

  109. @Vidi

    Forgot the South of France, that is another favorite of the 1%.

  110. Anonymous[405] • Disclaimer says:
    @Polish Perspective

    which anyone having read Yanis Varoufakis latest book

    Is he a reliable narrator?

    • Replies: @Mike P
  111. @Polish Perspective

    I’m afraid that you are still missing the point.
    No one is or should suggest that Argentina is not an economic mess. Why ? is not the primary question – the fact remains. If you accept Mr Hudson’s argument here, then you should accept that a 50 billion loan to Argentina is not only unpayable but is purely intended to benefit various local & foreign Oligarchs. I can’t see how such a loan could be defended – by the IMF OR the Argentine government.
    It is corruption on a grand scale.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  112. @Anon

    But you know how Latins are. They like to work as little as possible and take as much as possible from the state while paying as little as possible into the system.

    But you know how Americans and Israelis are. They like to work as little as possible and steal as much as possible from the citizens of the state while paying as little as possible into the system.

    Business corporations as we know them, in fact, are designed to extract as much as possible from the citizens of the state while paying as little as possible into the system. They privatize profits while socializing risk.

    • Replies: @Wally
  113. @Wally

    Argentine Marxist laziness & lack of productivity is well known & rather glaring. After all, it is they who keep getting bailed out.

    The IMF is a product and tool of the Marxist one world crowd, Wally. If Hitler knew what you were saying, he’d likely disown you and smack you upside the head.

    I’ll ask you again (since you avoided an answer): What type of system do you think the Nazis were trying to avoid?

    PS: Here’s Marx’s “5th Plank.:”

    5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

    The IMF takes that one step further. Figure it out.

    • Agree: Dillon Sweeny
    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Wally
  114. @L.K

    Excellent comments, as usual, LK!

    Thanks for adding PCR’s comment to the mix. It’s really discouraging to see the neo-lib (and neo-con) mouthpieces attacking Hudson and defending a Marxist inspired looting operation and blaming the results on the victims.

    Waly apparently doesn’t realize that the ignorant tilt to his comments discredit his otherwise praiseworthy attempts to debunk the holohoax.

  115. @Wally

    Nevertheless, countries can re-negotiate a deal with the IMF.

    In theory, maybe, but how do you negotiate to your advantage with powerful economic guns in your face?

    The IMF is a product and tool of the Marxist flavored one world “elite.” Always has been, and as such it’s a criminal operation at least from the peasant’s and proles’ points of view.

  116. @gsjackson

    It’s called the fractional reserve system, if anybody’s unfamiliar with the concept. The banks make up fake money to give you to buy a real house, then when you can’t pay the fake money back they take the house. Such a deal!

    Then they declare a loss on their fake money and get bailouts from the government which borrows the money from their accomplices, the Fed, whcih gives the government the money in the form of credits pulled out of thin air.

    Now those are some deals!

    • Replies: @Wally
  117. @Wally

    Wally, exposed as a troll. Sad.

    Jacques painted himself into a corner, embarrassed himself, and now has only childish replies.

    He must be too lazy to educate himself on the basics of fractional reserve banking and how it’s inspired and practiced by Marxist looting “elite.”

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Wally
  118. @Wally

    And you still can’t explain away the fact that the Argentine people want & approve of these loans.

    You can’t prove that they do.

    The swindle is so transparent that it shouldn’t need explaining. Arrrgggghhh!

    • Replies: @Wally
  119. @L.K

    He’ll hold to his dogmas as fast as the holohoaxters hold to theirs!

    Yup. And he doesn’t even realize that he’s supporting the same criminal classes that his “buddies” correctly fought against!

  120. Mike P says:
    @Anonymous

    which anyone having read Yanis Varoufakis latest book

    Is he a reliable narrator?

    I distrust Varoufakis. A while before the Greek financial crisis busted onto the world stage, and before he had assumed political office, he proposed on his well-read blog that the solution to the Greek debt problem was for the ECB to issue unlimited low-interest Euro-bonds – all of Europe would be on the hook for the debt incurred by any member country. He had to know that this would amount to Greece giving up on repaying any debt, ever, and just roll it over into infinity. Since them, I have considered him a fraud, even though I admit that he is very intelligent and knowledgeable.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  121. @Wally

    Anyway, I have been to Argentina numerous times. Will be going again later this year

    Tango lessons, I’m guessing?

    ;-)

    Takes two, ya know.

  122. Mike P says:
    @jacques sheete

    I don’t see why you can’t all be right. IMF and World Bank issue odious debt to Argentina and other countries that mismanage their finances. Sort of like the payday loan sharks around the corner – it is up to you to avoid falling prey to them, but they are still predators.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  123. utu says:
    @jacques sheete

    Was Wally fired from CODOH? The longest series of comments by him w/o a single line to CODOH.

    He must hate Argentinians even more then Jews.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @jacques sheete
  124. @Mike P

    I distrust Varoufakis. A while before the Greek financial crisis busted onto the world stage, and before he had assumed political office, he proposed on his well-read blog that the solution to the Greek debt problem was for the ECB to issue unlimited low-interest Euro-bonds – all of Europe would be on the hook for the debt incurred by any member country.

    Thanks for that, which I was unaware of. Perhaps he’s a fraud, or maybe he’s seen the light. In either case he’s a politician who still apparently believes that the state is the messiah (instead of an instrument of thieves) and for that I have never trusted him either.

    Still, his book, Adults in the Room, is chock full of valid insights. He does unfortunately draw the wrong conclusion as to the solutions.

  125. @Mike P

    it is up to you to avoid falling prey to them,

    It is, but in the case of countries, it’s the crooked politicians who decide, not the “masses.” So the responsibility lies mainly with the loan sharks and their partners in crime, the politicians and the
    mouthpieces ( e.g. the Krugmans of the world) who support them politically.

    These loans are designed to undermine the sovereignty of the countries in various ways, and that’s exactly what they do.

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Wally
  126. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Are they protesting against yet another loan? Nope.

    Are they striking against yet another loan? Nope.

    Bottom line: you dodge my points because you have no answers. LOL

    Next.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  127. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Yawn.
    I know all about that, but it still doesn’t answer my points about the Marxist Argentines’ incredible laziness and lack of a work ethic.

    And it is they who obviously know nothing about economics.

    Your dodging continues. LOL

  128. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    The lesson there, don’t borrow money you cannot pay back.

  129. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Sorry, but the topic is not NS economics, which I haven’t posted on.
    Your desperation is showing.

    I reiterate: Take the money? Then pay it back. Don’t like the deal? Then don’t accept it.

    Generally called taking responsibility for your actions. Not something the lazy Argentines are very good at. Obviously.

  130. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Then the Argentine public can protest against the loan.

    But alas, they accept, wholeheartedly, other peoples money, yet again.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @gsjackson
  131. Wally says:
    @utu

    utu, you keep changing the subject, not me, so, Moderator, here we go, please allow this response.

    I never worked for CODOH. They rely on volunteers.

    Of course, it’s CODOH information which has debunked your laughable belief in the impossible ‘Nazi gas chambers’.
    Just one example: http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany/
    comment 429:

    http://www.codoh.com

  132. Mike P says:
    @jacques sheete

    in the case of countries, it’s the crooked politicians who decide, not the “masses.”

    We are all aware of the limitations of “representative democracy” – to a large degree, it is a sham system designed for its own abuse, and I agree with you in principle. However, one can still observe that e.g. Greek and Swiss governments, in their approach to fiscal discipline, reflect the general attitudes prevailing in their respective countries. Do we have specific reason to believe that this does not apply in Argentina’s case? I don’t know – have never been there.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  133. @utu

    Was Wally fired from CODOH?

    If I were a CODOH admin, I’d pay him to go away. He makes those fine fellows look like dunces.

    Speaking of CODOH, they would not be happy, I’m sure, with Wally’s defense of the international bankster brotherhood.

    Wally would do well to read some of CODOH’s stuff, but I can see where this sort of thing wouldn’t appeal to the intellectually lazy. And Wally, above, was squawking about IQ ‘n such.

    [Mosley’s] reaction to such events was always to give a constructive solution, and this time the solution was so far-reaching that all contemporary figures have utterly rejected it; in any case it challenged the whole structure of their international system of trade and finance established five years before at Bretton Woods under such glittering edifices as GATT, the IMF, and the World Bank. (They are not quite so splendid today, as their international system groans beneath world-wide recession and immense debts.)

    - Robert Row, Sir Oswald Mosley: Briton, Fascist, European
    https://codoh.com/library/document/2102/

    More from Mosley, on the world’s banking system, not that Wally knows anything about him or his ideas.

    That consecrated combination of private interests and public plunders.

    -Mosley Annual Report (1925) of the Independent Labour Party, quoted in Robert Skidelsky, Oswald Mosley (Papermacs, 1981), p. 142.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @L.K
  134. @Mike P

    However, one can still observe that e.g. Greek and Swiss governments, in their approach to fiscal discipline, reflect the general attitudes prevailing in their respective countries.

    I ‘d like to have some proof of that.

    In fact, in the case of Greece, the majority knew that they were about to get hosed, so Varoufakis’ party (Syriza) won, somewhat reminiscent of the surprising way Trump won. The party, after they won, allowed themselves to be bullied by the EU, the EC, and the ECB, and betrayed the people. The whole sad story is in Varoufakis’ fine book, and the betrayal is the reason he resigned, in protest, as finance minister.

    The masses of Greek people are typically fiscally conservative and were sick of being jacked around. They voted to stop the madness, but were screwed again. Democracy my arse!!!

    • Replies: @Mike P
  135. @Wally

    Then the Argentine public can protest against the loan.

    But alas, they accept, wholeheartedly, other peoples money, yet again.

    While ‘Merkin corporations, politicians, military and Israel lobby for the money and accept it by the wheelbarrowful.

    As for protesting, what makes you thin it would do any good? Why don’t you protest against the IMF forcing the loan down their throats?

    Why do you refuse to see that it isn’t the Argentine “volk” who get the money, but the Argentine oligarchs and other crooks who get it? Can’t you see the Marxist scam for what it is????

    How much simpler does it have to get?

    People with your ideas are an insult and embarrassment to fiscal conservatives everywhere.

  136. Wally says:

    said:
    “If I were a CODOH admin, I’d pay him to go away. He makes those fine fellows look like dunces.”

    Except that there has been a huge surge in CODOH readership since I started posting here.

    Jacques, I have simply hammered you on this Argentina issue, so you try to change the subject.

  137. Jacques, I have simply hammered you on this Argentina issue, so you try to change the subject.

    You mean stammering. You still have not proved your repeated claim that Argentinians are lazy. You just keep repeating it and calling it hammering.

    Except that there has been a huge surge in CODOH readership since I started posting here.

    That, of itself, proves nothing. Could be coincidence. I could make the same claim and it would be just as valid as yours even tho I rarely mention it. Now go read the CODOH linked article on Moseley.

    Here’s the link again.

    https://codoh.com/library/document/2102/

    • Replies: @Tim too
  138. Mike P says:
    @jacques sheete

    The masses of Greek people are typically fiscally conservative and were sick of being jacked around.

    They have also serially voted for governments that arranged for goodies like letting police officers retire at fourty with full pensions for life, and they have willingly accepted those cushy jobs. Greek doctors have been known to refuse treatment to gravely sick patients who were unable to pay bribes on the spot – not fees, bribes – and we got to read how the poor Greek people had to suffer such abuse, as if the perpetrators were not also Greek. People loaning money for “investment” to private parties in Greece tend to discover that repayment was never part of the business plan. If you get robbed as a tourist on a Greek island, don’t bother with the police – they are on the take. Oh, and in Greek, being “fiscally conservative” doesn’t imply saving money; it just means not paying your taxes.

    I’m sure there are many fine individuals in Greece, but nevertheless Greece is a (Donald Trump’s patented moniker) country, and that is why they are in a fiscal mess. Of course that Varoufakis guy has tales of woe to tell; they probably are true, but that just takes us back to square one – predatory lenders being unpleasant company etc.

    • Replies: @peterAUS
    , @jacques sheete
  139. Tim too says:
    @jacques sheete

    It is kind of bizarre that someone would accuse others of laziness, without proof. Does this accusation come from someone from the country with ‘innocent until proven guilty’?

    Are they lazy or not? I don’t know, I doubt it. And so you’re not the only one that wants, requires or demands proof.

    Is it laziness to not provide proof?

  140. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Wake up, we’re talking about Argentina, 2018, not Mosley, 1930s. LOL

    The proof of Argentine’s laziness is themselves.
    Laughably low production, constantly wanting others to pay for their, laziness. Like you, their ignorance of real world economic is pathetic.

    CODOH readership is surging since my posts started here. Do better next time.

  141. peterAUS says:
    @Mike P

    Agree.

    What leftists simply can’t get re this topic is just one, simple word: CORRUPTION.

    Greece, Argentina….etc..etc…..

    From the bottom to the very top. The same attitude, just different amount, depending on one’s position in society.

    Get rid, somehow, of corruption, a lot of things would get much better, for everyone.

    Impossible, of course.

    • Replies: @utu
  142. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    said:
    “These loans are designed to undermine the sovereignty of the countries in various ways, and that’s exactly what they do.”

    Yet the Argentine public loves these loans.
    The loans allow them to continue their laziness, unproductive ways, while living off of other peoples money.

  143. gsjackson says:
    @Wally

    It’s not “other people’s money” in any meaningful sense. It is funny money, stroke-of-the-keyboard stuff created in order to subjugate the borrowing nations. No Americans or anybody else worked and saved to create earned money that they deposited with the IMF. It’s a scam.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Wally
  144. Wally says:
    @gsjackson

    Prove it. I’m listening.

    • Replies: @gsjackson
  145. Tim too says:
    @Wally

    What measure of productivity are you using? In view of the massive technological differences between US, various other countries, Argentina, and others, comparing productivity is comparing apples and oranges. You have to provide a measure of laziness/non-laziness that people can see means something. Do you know of a measure of laziness that is generally agreed on?

    Productivity doesn’t measure laziness or non-laziness.

  146. Yet the Argentine public loves these loans.

    Provide one bit of credible evidence.

    PS: Even if they do love them, it’s irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and has nothing to do with the point of the article. Get the hint?

  147. @Wally

    CODOH readership is surging since my posts started here.

    They started surging since my posts started here as well. Your point is?

  148. Is it laziness to not provide proof?

    Without a doubt.

    It’s also due to ignorance, simple mindedness and obsessive troll-like tendencies apparently.

  149. @Wally

    Wake up, we’re talking about Argentina, 2018, not Mosley, 1930s. LOL

    Well, you better tell CODOH so they can delete him. Anyway, he’s relevant to the discussion here as I pointed out. It’s pretty obvious, so why is it that you can’t understand?

    Why don’t you direct CODOH to provide a position statement on central banks, especially international ones, on national sovereignty so we know where they stand?

    • Replies: @Wally
  150. @Mike P

    Oh, and in Greek, being “fiscally conservative” doesn’t imply saving money; it just means not paying your taxes.

    What’s wrong with not wanting to pay taxes? Especially when, as you described, officialdom is full of corruption? Taxes are extortion and I’d think it immoral to pay them willingly. Like you said, the police ( and government ) are not your friends. Why encourage ‘em?

    • Replies: @Mike P
  151. https://www.ft.com/content/5ac33abc-551b-11e7-9fed-c19e2700005f

    How the fuck can a country that one year ago sold a 100 year bond now get a mother fucking loan from the IMF? I am a financial infant cause none of this makes sense to me.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  152. Respect says:

    Has anyone noticed that Argentina was one of the few western countries where abortion was not legal ? , thanks to its Catholic roots .

    And that now , just in the last few weeks , the argentinian Congress is debating the legalization of abortion ? , the left & liberals are pushing for legalization of course , and I wonder if the IMF with its 50 billion loan is demanding some sacrifices …. to Moloch .

  153. utu says:
    @peterAUS

    Greece, Argentina….etc..etc…..

    What if there is something deeper?

    ANTI-SEMITISM IN ARGENTINA

    https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Anti-Semitism-in-Argentina-402322

    Why Is Greece the Most anti-Semitic Country in Europe?

    https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/how-anti-semitic-is-greece-really-1.5248999

    • Replies: @peterAUS
  154. Mike P says:
    @jacques sheete

    What’s wrong with not wanting to pay taxes? Especially when, as you described, officialdom is full of corruption?

    You are right; in a corrupt country like Greece, taxes are for suckers. However, there are better countries that give tax payers some value for their money – the U.S. wouldn’t be the best example of that either, of course.

    That still leaves us with its own pervasive corruption as the root cause of Greece’s troubles – it brought on financial ruin and enabled all the predatory schemes, which started with Goldman-Sachs bookkeeping tricks for faking Greek compliance with Euro membership requirements, and which are designed to squeeze the rest of Europe in perpetuity. Greece is the indebted drunk, but the real prize is Europe, Greece’s captive family. (See Varoufakis and his demented Euro-bond scheme – Goldman-Sachs enthusiastically approves.)

  155. utu says:

    However, there are better countries that give tax payers some value for their money – the U.S. wouldn’t be the best example of that either, of course.

    For this reason American developed Pavlovian response that all taxes are bad while a well functioning state serving needs of its citizen obviously requires significant taxation to operate smoothly and efficiently. But the “all taxes are bad” Pavlovian reflex is very useful for the oligarchy that runs America with a great help of useful idiots like libertarians.

  156. peterAUS says:
    @utu

    What if there is something deeper?

    Don’t think so.

    Agree, an interesting thought, but….no….

    Those countries are deeply into corruption. It’s structural, cultural. It’s simply the way of life there.

    Of course (some) of us here know what’s the name of the game.
    Still, doesn’t exonerate those, and similar, countries.

    Yes, we know that corporations do their best to get people hooked to their fast food etc.
    Doesn’t exonerate an obese person from his/her own responsibility.

    Better analogy is a loan shark. No need to waste time on describing him/her.
    Still, if you take a loan and then go gambling, well….

    We still, or do we, remember all that brouhaha about Greece recently.
    Blop….they meekly went with the program.

    The (eternal) problem with (proper) left is taking lower classes as saints.
    It’s all “upper/somebody else’s” fault. No, it isn’t, plenty of it is from within. Genetic stupidity, plain laziness, drive for instant gratification etc…etc…

    Of course, the (eternal) problem with (proper) right is the opposite.

    Finding a proper balance is something that we, people, apparently don’t do well.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  157. @interesting

    I am a financial infant cause none of this makes sense to me.

    You are not an infant for the simple reason that you recognize that this is all nonsensical. It is.
    It’s so bizarre that no reasonable person could ever hatch such nuttiness let alone implement it.

    The bankers are crazy.

    This explains it, but instead, the author of it will be called crazy.:

    Dr PeterPalms
    BUILDING THE NEW WORLD ORDER WITH IMF, WORLD BANK, AND TAXPAYERS PAY THE BILL
    The Game-Called-Bailout reexamined and shown to be far more than merely a means of getting taxpayers to foot the cost of bad loans MADE DOMESTICALLY; the final play revealed as the merger of all nations into world government; the unfolding of that strategy as applied to Panama, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, China, Eastern Europe, and Russia.

    https://www.thomhartmann.com/users/dr-peterpalms/blog/2015/10/building-new-world-order-imf-and-world-bank-and-taxpayers-pay-bill

  158. gsjackson says:
    @Wally

    Well, in the case of the U.S. contribution to the IMF, I guess you could call it either taxpayer-funded or part of the large federal budget deficit, as you please. In other words, either real money backed by someone’s labor, or funny money. Since the U.S. gets financial assets back from the IMF considered equivalent to what it puts in, the contribution is not characterized as a budget outlay, so in the smoke-and-mirrors game of the federal budget it really doesn’t compute as taxpayer-funded.

    I don’t know about the contributions of the other member countries.

    The U.S. is not threatened by a default of any given country — its arrangement is with the IMF, which has never failed to meet its obligations to Uncle Bully. Indebted countries may occasionally roll over the debt, but they always pony up.

    If the IMF doesn’t function precisely like other banks, it is a risk-free operation with the frequent result that we (as in the Pat Buchanan propaganda “we”) in effect own a bunch of countries.

  159. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    increasingly desperate, said:
    “Well, you better tell CODOH so they can delete him. Anyway, he’s relevant to the discussion here as I pointed out. It’s pretty obvious, so why is it that you can’t understand?
    Why don’t you direct CODOH to provide a position statement on central banks, especially international ones, on national sovereignty so we know where they stand?”

    - Nothing to tell CODOH. I do not see them comparing Mosely & Argentina. Do you?

    - Why delete the article? Mosely was relevant to the period because he was a British fascist and the British were /are eager to smear him as being a ‘Nazi’. And ‘Nazi’ means the fake ‘holocaust’ and all the other fake things the Germans are accused of doing.

    - CODOH, AFAIK, doesn’t generally discuss international central banks & national sovereignty. Please pay attention.

    - I remind you that CODOH stands for:
    Committee for Open Debate on the ‘Holocaust’.

    Cheers.

  160. @peterAUS

    We still, or do we, remember all that brouhaha about Greece recently.
    Blop….they meekly went with the program.

    How do you know they went meekly? Please provide at least a tiny shred of credible evidence, otherwise you’re peddling hearsay. And please define who “they” are in this context.

    • Replies: @Wally
  161. - I remind you that CODOH stands for:
    Committee for Open Debate on the ‘Holocaust’.

    I remind you that all these things are related.

    FYI, if their articles are to be limited to only those touching on “the” holohoax, then why did they link to an article that didn’t even address that issue?

    PS: When are you going to provide some credible evidence for your claims about Argentinians? Why do you dance around that question and provide (weak) distractions?

    PSS: Did you know that CODOH readership has skyrocketed since I began posting here? The moon has also waxed and waned many times since then…you think, maybe…????

    • Replies: @Wally
  162. @Polish Perspective

    the imf is a loanshark’s loanshark. even the mob would blush at the imf’s antics.

  163. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    I explained why they have the Mosely piece, pay attention.
    I’ll spoon feed you, again:

    ” Mosely was relevant to the period because he was a British fascist and the British were /are eager to smear him as being a ‘Nazi’. And ‘Nazi’ means the fake ‘holocaust’ and all the other fake things the Germans are accused of doing.”

    What points about the Argentines need proof? Their own behavior, as I explained and you dodged, is that proof. Again pay attention.

    Indeed, I have driven up interest in CODOH. Hurts don’t it?

    Bye.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Troll: L.K
  164. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    said:
    “How do you know they went meekly?”

    Obviously they went meekly because they have , well, gone away … meekly.
    No surprise there.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  165. L.K says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey Jacques,

    J.S

    If I were a CODOH admin, I’d pay him to go away. He makes those fine fellows look like dunces.

    Indeed.

    J.S:

    Speaking of CODOH, they would not be happy, I’m sure, with Wally’s defense of the international bankster brotherhood.

    Wally would do well to read some of CODOH’s stuff, but I can see where this sort of thing wouldn’t appeal to the intellectually lazy.

    Correct… or the intellectually dishonest, since, despite focusing on the holohoax, CODOH does cover other issues… As a matter of fact, in the codoh forum itself, which is run, at least in part, by ‘wally’, there is a long thread discussing the German economic miracle under the National Socialists.
    I have also heard Germar Rudolf discuss some of these issues.

    inconvenienthistory.com, which is published by CODOH, features several great articles about N.S and Fascism in Europe, or the Japanese in East Asia, and their economic policies.

    The Myth of the Big Business-Nazi Axis – https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/7/3/3434

    … Among the National Socialists in Germany, opposition to international capital figured prominently from the start. The National Socialists, even prior to adopting that name, within the small group, the German Workers’ Party, saw capital as intrinsically anti-national. The earliest party program, in 1919, stated that the party was fighting “against usury… against all those who make high profits without any mental or physical work,” the “drones” who “control and rule us with their money.” It is notable that even then the party did not advocate “ socialization” of industry but profit-sharing and unity among all classes other than “drones.”[5] As the conservative spokesman Oswald Spengler pointed out, Marxism did not wish to transcend capital but to expropriate it. Hence the spirit of the Left remained capitalist or money-centered.[6] The subordination of money to state policy was something understood in Germany even among the business elite, and large sections of the menial class; quite different to the concept of economics understood among the Anglophone world, where economics dominates state policy. …

    American Famine and the Failure of the New Deal – http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/9/2/4359

    Two of the great myths of recent history are that:

    - Germany achieved economic recovery through rearmament;
    - Roosevelt overcame the Depression through his New Deal social reforms.
    These assumptions are in inverse proportion to actuality. Germany achieved economic recovery in a similar way the Labour Government in New Zealand did at about the same time: state credit for public works without recourse to debt.

    Origins of the Japanese-American War
    A Conflict of Free Trade vs. Autarchy

    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/8/2/4165

    One important, but often overlooked element of the causes of the Second World War is economics. In fact, it may be said that World War II was a conflict between two systems of economy: free trade, or what is today called globalization, and autarchy, or the economic self-sufficiency of states or more commonly trading blocs, including empires.

    As noted in my article “The Myth of the Big Business-Nazi Axis,” even Reich finance minister Schacht, a mole within the Third Reich in the service of the world banking cabal, commented that antagonism towards Germany was significantly prompted by Germany’s autarchic economic policy, with a trade policy based on barter. The Bank of International Settlements at the time was noting that this autarchic system of trade was becoming a world trend.1

    Japan, Italy and Germany all followed similar banking, economic and trade policies. The Bank of Japan was reorganized as a state bank in 1932, although since its founding in 1882 the Imperial House had been the major shareholder. The Bank of Japan Law was modeled on the 1939 Reichsbank Act. Japan experienced extraordinary economic growth.2

  166. @Wally

    Obviously they went meekly because they have , well, gone away … meekly.

    Citation please.

    For a guy who usually likes to post lots of links, I’ve noticed that you’ve become reticent to do so of late.

    Why?

    • Replies: @Wally
  167. @L.K

    Thanks, L.K.

    That’s some great commentary, and I see that you back up your assertions with sources. I wonder why Wally doesn’t?

    He makes a very poor Fascist sympathizer in that he doesn’t seem to understand what Mosley and others, as you point out, had to say about international finance.

    This has long been apparent to me and in fact, this is how and why the IMF was able to come into being.:

    One important, but often overlooked element of the causes of the Second World War is economics. In fact, it may be said that World War II was a conflict between two systems of economy: free trade, or what is today called globalization, and autarchy, or the economic self-sufficiency of states or more commonly trading blocs, including empires.

    WW1 was about the same. I don’t think it’s a mere coincidence that the war started soon after the money spigot in the form of the Fed came into being.

    BTW:: Wally has shown, by his “argument” style, why we goyim will never win and that’s because Jews generally stick together while we goyim argue amongst ourselves.

  168. @L.K

    Those are some dynamite quotes, L.K.! I’ve re-read your comment several times and can’t wait to find the time to read the articles.

    Many, many thanks again.

    • Replies: @L.K
  169. @L.K

    L.K. provided a link to an excellent article.

    I would add that US had the Monroe Doctrine which effectively claimed all of the Western Hemisphere for domination by the US, but Japan was not to be allowed her own sphere of influence.

    Japan’s dream was for an autarchic East Asia bloc, and “Asia for the Asians.” Her ambitions were limited to that extent, in contrast to the world-conquering ambitions of the USA and the unlimited horizons set across the world for the British Empire, or to the Communist aim of world conquest.

    http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/8/2/4165

    The US and it’s bosses in the international banking houses are still waging war in a similar fashion on the rest of the world. As that excellent article describes, it starts with propaganda against other nations, then moves to economic warfare ( such as the goof, Trump, and his bosses are doing to Iran, Russia and China). How people can fail to understand this is a mystery to me.

    The IMF “loans” to Argentina are a means to subjugate Argentina. Seeing what happened to Germany and the rest (Iraq, Libya) who decided to resist the international capitalists, would encourage anyone to “go meekly” it would seem. Wally, to his shame meekly supports the international banking cabal and blames the cabal’s victims. Hudson does a good job describing the crimes.

  170. I see that UR has linked to Ford’s book, “The International Jew – The World’s Foremost Problem (Henry Ford) (1920′s)”

    Since the IMF is a tool of international financiers obviously to be used to subjugate nations, I thought I’d see what Ford would have to say about similar things. So far, I found this and I’m only about a third of the way through.:

    It is this international quality of the Jewish banking group which largely accounts for Jewishfinancial power: there is team-play, intimate understandings, and while there is a margin of
    competition among themselves (as at golf) there is also a wiping out of that margin when it
    comes to a contest between Jewish and “Gentile” capital.

  171. Well, one things for sure – Argentina’s IMF loan will quiet any regime change request coming out of Wall Street.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  172. Oh Wally…!

    Oooh, dem lazy Argentineans! They oughta be like us hard werkin ‘Merkins!

    As operating groups, the governments are bankrupt now. Only their power of confiscation keeps them up. The United States, commonly referred to as the richest country in the world, is just as poor as a government as is any other. It has nothing; it is in debt and borrowing. And its creditors are constantly discounting their obligations and are putting it into worse hands than ever.
    - Henry Ford, The International Jew – The World’s Foremost Problem (1920′s)

    https://archive.org/stream/TheInternationalJewTheWorldsForemostProblemhenryFord1920s/TheInternationalJewTheWorldsForemostProblemhenryFord1920s_djvu.txt

    Ooops! What did Ford know? And besides he wrote that in the 1920s so it couldn’t possibly be relevant to situations today. An’ not only dat, dis thread ain’t ‘bout old Henry, the dim-witted kunspiracy theerist!!

    • Replies: @Wally
  173. @jacques sheete

    My agree button is used-up, but I agree.

  174. @jacques sheete

    As most of you know (or should know) the IMF is one head of a three-headed monster known as the Rothschild Banking Cartel, owned and operated by Internationalist Jews for the exclusive benefit of Jews. The remaining two heads of the monster are The Bank of England and Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

  175. @Wally

    Wally, how much resistance are the American people (and that includes you) presenting to the US government who routinely spends far more than it takes in in tax revenues, resulting in borrowing trillions of additional dollars from the Federal Reserve banking cartel? If I’m not mistaken, the American people currently owe the Jewish bankers around 2 trillion dollars.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  176. Tim too says:
    @L.K

    L.K. you quoted “The subordination of money to state policy was something understood in Germany even among the business elite, and large sections of the menial class; quite different to the concept of economics understood among the Anglophone world, where economics dominates state policy. … ”

    If you read more of Michael Hudson’s work you can see that economic policy in the US has had different qualities over the decades, including a very German bent, as many economists in the late 1800′s were educated in Germany. Including ideas of subjugation of monetary policy to state interest, rather than private interest, including money as a state infrastructure, rather than private. Read Hudson’s essay on Simon Patten

    http://michael-hudson.com/2017/12/on-simon-patten/

    Hudson has some other interesting insights on Patten , Veblen etc. on his website

    • Replies: @L.K
  177. @Carroll Price

    I hope you don’t expect a reasonable answer from Wally; he’s too lazy to respond to those types of challenges with anything but troll-like insults and other such silliness.

    • Replies: @Wally
  178. L.K says:
    @Tim too

    Hello Tim too,

    If you read more of Michael Hudson’s work you can see that economic policy in the US has had different qualities over the decades, including a very German bent

    Thanks Tim, I’m aware of that.

    Besides Hudson, Ellen Brown’s books are also excellent in describing, among other things, the struggle which took place in the US over the years, until the final & complete victory of the financial element and their take over.

    Brown tells us about the last stand, after the economic crisis of 1873:

    …The response of debt-stricken farmers and laid-off factory workers was a grassroots movement for monetary reform. Among their proposed reforms was that banking should be a public utility, operated by government employees as a public service. Monetary reform was a chief political issue for decades after the Civil War.
    An early leader in this Populist movement was a Kansas housewife and mother of four named Mary Ellen Lease. …
    In a speech given around 1890 that could have been written today, she said:

    “Wall Street owns the country. It is no longer a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, but a government of Wall Street, by Wall Street, and for Wall Street. The great common people of this country are slaves, and monopoly is the master. . . . Money rules . . . . Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags. The parties lie to us and the political speakers mislead us.
    We were told two years ago to go to work and raise a big crop, that was all we needed. We went to work and plowed and planted; the rains fell, the sun shone, nature smiled, and we raised the big crop that they told us to; and what came of it? Eight-cent corn, ten-cent oats, two-cent beef and no price at all for butter and eggs—that’s what came of it. The politicians said we suffered from overproduction. Overproduction, when 10,000 little children, so statistics tell us, starve to death every year in the United States, and over 100,000 shopgirls in New York are forced to sell their virtue for the bread their niggardly wages deny them. . . .
    We want money, land and transportation. We want the abolition of the National Banks, and we want the power to make loans direct from the government. We want the foreclosure system wiped out . . . . We will stand by our homes and stay by our fireside by force if necessary, and we will not pay our debts to the loan-shark companies until the government pays its debts to us. The people are at bay; let the bloodhounds of money who dogged us thus far beware. ”

    (THE PUBLIC BANK SOLUTION: From Austerity to Prosperity)

    • Replies: @Tim too
    , @utu
    , @jacques sheete
  179. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Jacques, again, were talking about Argentina, not the US. Please actually read the article.

    Your attempted subject change is an admission by you of your failure to carry your argument, as scattered & bizarre as it is.

    Again, Argentines have repeatedly accepted the free rides they have gotten from these ‘loans’. This is nothing new.
    Each and everyone of them could have just said no to all the free lunches they received. But what the hell, ‘Why work for a living’? Gives them more time to drink and then strike for retirements at age 40. LOL

    I know the facts bothers you, but too bad, facts are facts.

    The rest of your nonsense is of topic 1930s silliness.

    Cheers.

  180. L.K says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey jacques,

    Thanks my friend!

    No time now, but let’s come back to this space later to continue our interesting conversation!

    Cheers

  181. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    What “challenges”? The irrelevant, off topic ones about 1930s Europe?

    Reminder, the article is about Argentina.

  182. Wally says:
    @Carroll Price

    BTW, the article is about Argentina, not the US.

    Please read it.

  183. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Yes, they should work harder and then not accept loans that they’re too lazy to pay back.

    Again, you’re stuck in a time warp & geographically confused.

    This is not the 1920s, the topic is not the US. FYI, the article is about Argentina.

    Read it.

    Cheers.

  184. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    A “citation” for what’s not happening? LOL As usual, your logic is lacking.

    Do we see Greeks in the streets still protesting? Nope. How quickly & meekly they went away.

    BTW, Ron Unz is censoring many of my on topic posts here, especially the ones where I rebut your uninformed childish nonsense about CODOH.

    But hey, it’s Ron’s site.

    Heaven forbid we have too much freedom speech.

    http://www.codoh.com

    • Replies: @utu
  185. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    “Who the bleep do you think is responsible for the new Argentine fiasco Hudson is lamenting? ”

    The lazy, unproductive, leftist Argentinians, that’s who. Pay attention.

    It’s far more likely that the ruling elites are corrupt bloodsuckers, draining the life out of Argentina. I notice that you don’t mention that. The new $50 billion loan is just another way of stealing from the people.

    The people are definitely aware of the corruption, which is why a few years ago they were banging pots all day long in protest. The elites, however, were too firmly entrenched to be removed.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Wally
  186. Vidi says:
    @Carroll Price

    Well, one things for sure – Argentina’s IMF loan will quiet any regime change request coming out of Wall Street.

    In one sense, yes. But in the larger sense, no.

    In the smaller sense, in getting the Macri government, the U.S. has already gotten the regime change it wanted. So things are back to normal, with the Argentinan oligarches stealing the people blind and slavishly obeying Uncle. Wall Street wouldn’t want to change that.

    In the larger sense, no. The purchase of an enormous chunk of Argentina, several times the size of Israel, by the Jews was followed by the recent announcement of 3 new U.S. military bases in the region — probably for protecting a possible second Jewish homeland, and for enforcing the eventual secession of this area from the rest of Argentina. If that is so, then I predict that Wall Street will begin to agitate for a new regime that would permit the loss of Argentinan territory.

    Perhaps the secession is already a done deal, and perhaps the new $50 billion loan was a bribe to some unbelievably craven Argentinan oligarches to acquiesce in the split. Time will tell.

    By the way, the possible preparation of an enormous chunk of Patagonia, Argentina, for Jewish settlement could be an admission (by at least some Jews) that Israel has no future.

    • Replies: @utu
  187. gsjackson says:

    Perhaps it’s not out of place to note here that not too long ago in the U.S. a bill of law materialized that would have made it a federal crime to criticize the banking system. I’m not certain whether it was actually introduced in Congress. It apparently got insufficient traction at the time, but expect it to be revisited when enough money and threats have been circulated amongst the solons.

    Especially if the abominable law in South Carolina criminalizing support for BDS survives constitutional challenge (there’s no way it can under any recognizable theory of First Amendment law, but constitutional law is just politics by another name, so you never know). If that happens, the First Amendment is a dead letter, and discussions like this will end.

  188. Tim too says:
    @L.K

    thank you L.K., I read Ellen Brown and all kinds of economists of different types, looking for good ideas. Another interesting writer is Michael Perelman, ‘The Invention of Capitalism’ and other books.

  189. @Carroll Price

    The US has accumulated a $22 trillion dollar national debt, not 2 trillion.

  190. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    said:
    “It’s far more likely that the ruling elites are corrupt bloodsuckers, draining the life out of Argentina. I notice that you don’t mention that. The new $50 billion loan is just another way of stealing from the people.”

    Is that why the Argentine public keeps taking the money anyway?

    “Far more likely”? Is that your best shot? LOL

    Of course I didn’t mention it. Nothing to mention.

    Q: How many times has the Argentine public accepted the money from these ‘loans’?

    A: Everytime.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  191. utu says:
    @L.K

    An early leader in this Populist movement was a Kansas housewife and mother of four named Mary Ellen Lease. …

    There used to be a healthy populist movement in the US. Both the left and right succeeded in marginalization of it. Thomas Frank in his “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” blames Republicans for making people vote against their interests but I suspect that the left including socialists when they still existed were instrumental in making the questions about money production and supply going away.

  192. utu says:
    @Vidi

    By the way, the possible preparation of an enormous chunk of Patagonia, Argentina, for Jewish settlement could be an admission (by at least some Jews) that Israel has no future.

    While allegedly six years ago Henry Kissinger said Israel will not exist in 10 years I am convinced that Jerusalem will not be abandoned. It is a part of the plan as the future Capital of the World. Ben Gurion in 1962:

    “In Jerusalem, the United Nations (a truly United Nations) will build a shrine of the prophets to serve the federated union of all continents; this will be the seat of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesied by Isaiah…”

    • Replies: @Vidi
  193. utu says:
    @Wally

    BTW, Ron Unz is censoring many of my on topic posts here, especially the ones where I rebut your uninformed childish nonsense about CODOH.

    Because your comments in this thread are so devastating. On the other hand he always lets you post all kinds of Holocaust stuff and give links to CODOH presumably because he thinks they are completely impotent and harmless.

    • Replies: @Wally
  194. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    Is that why the Argentine public keeps taking the money anyway?

    A few years ago, Argentinans were banging pots all day long. Does that sound like they thought their government was honest? That they were agreeing to what their government was doing?

    I notice that you omitted any mention of the banging pots. I wonder why?

    • Replies: @Wally
  195. @L.K

    OMG, this is one of the best comments I’ve seen, and there have been more than a few excellent ones here at UR.

    Thanks!

  196. @Wally

    A “citation” for what’s not happening? LOL As usual, your logic is lacking.

    Do we see Greeks in the streets still protesting? Nope. How quickly & meekly they went away.

    Ha ha.Look who’s yapping about logic.

    I’d like some credible source that supports your otherwise vacuous and unfounded opinion that Greeks are not protesting. What do you want them to do? Stamp their feet and wail like babies on your doorstep? How do you know that they are not?

    Most of us here, if we pay any attention to your comments at all, would like something a bit more substantial than your opinion. I do notice that you provide links to your claims regarding the holohoax, and you get a pat on the back for that. All I’m asking is that you provide similar support for your other claims; is that too much to ask?

    Also, you never answered my question about the Nazis. Again, what kind of system do you think they were trying to resist? I’d like some citations for any opinion you may have about that, too. Either that, or you’re just spouting off like an uneducated blowhard.

    I predict that you’ll ignore this request or just brush it off in punk fashion. Prove me wrong!

    • Replies: @Wally
  197. @Wally

    BTW, the article is about Argentina, not the US.

    Please read it.

    The article is not about Argentina, per se which is way too big a topic for an article here; it’s specifically about how the IMF and the Argentine oligarchs are screwing the people (Volk) of Argentina, and not about how lazy they are.

    Please reread the article and get with the program if possible.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Tim too
  198. Wally says:
    @utu

    said:
    “lets you post all kinds of Holocaust stuff and give links to CODOH presumably because he thinks they are completely impotent and harmless.”

    Yet I sure demolished YOU and your Zionist propaganda & laughably impossible ‘gas chambers’:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-post-war-france-and-post-war-germany/

    comment 429:

    LOL

  199. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    said:
    “A few years ago, Argentinans were banging pots all day long. ”

    Well there it is again. Proof that the Argentines are not lazy & and have a strong work ethic.

    Indeed, a very convincing argument.

    However, in checking I see you misspoke, it’s really:

    “A few years ago, Argentinans were smoking pot all day long.”

    • Replies: @Vidi
  200. Vidi says:
    @utu

    By the way, the possible preparation of an enormous chunk of Patagonia, Argentina, for Jewish settlement could be an admission (by at least some Jews) that Israel has no future.

    While allegedly six years ago Henry Kissinger said Israel will not exist in 10 years I am convinced that Jerusalem will not be abandoned. It is a part of the plan as the future Capital of the World. Ben Gurion in 1962:

    “In Jerusalem, the United Nations (a truly United Nations) will build a shrine of the prophets to serve the federated union of all continents; this will be the seat of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesied by Isaiah…”

    The world is full of prophecies, and some are more likely than others.

  201. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    “A few years ago, Argentinans were banging pots all day long. ”

    Well there it is again. Proof that the Argentines are not lazy & and have a strong work ethic.

    The loud, continuous banging of pots was definitely proof that they did not agree with their thieving government.

    • Replies: @Wally
  202. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    said:

    You mean the banging of pots that they stopped banging and took the money? LOL

    Don’t quit your day job.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  203. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    said:
    “The article is not about Argentina, per se which is way too big a topic for an article here; it’s specifically about how the IMF and the Argentine oligarchs are screwing the people (Volk) of Argentina, and not about how lazy they are.
    Please reread the article and get with the program if possible.The article is not about Argentina, per se which is way too big a topic for an article here; it’s specifically about how the IMF and the Argentine oligarchs are screwing the people (Volk) of Argentina, and not about how lazy they are.”

    - May I suggest the article title:
    ARGENTINA’S New $50 Billion IMF Loan Is Designed to Replay ITS 2001 Crisis

    - I note that Argentina / Argentines is mentioned only about 37 times in the article. LOL

    - True enough, Marxists like Hudson are not going call his unproductive basket case comrades ‘lazy’, but also true, lazy Argentina’s track record is well established. Loan after loan after loan. Low productivity & sloth are a way of like for Argentina. Their own economic record proves it.

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  204. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    illogically said again:
    “I’d like some credible source that supports your otherwise vacuous and unfounded opinion that Greeks are not protesting. What do you want them to do? Stamp their feet and wail like babies on your doorstep? How do you know that they are not?
    Most of us here, if we pay any attention to your comments at all, would like something a bit more substantial than your opinion. I do notice that you provide links to your claims regarding the holohoax, and you get a pat on the back for that. All I’m asking is that you provide similar support for your other claims; is that too much to ask?
    Also, you never answered my question about the Nazis. Again, what kind of system do you think they were trying to resist? I’d like some citations for any opinion you may have about that, too. Either that, or you’re just spouting off like an uneducated blowhard.”

    - The Greeks are obviously not protesting because they are not protesting.
    That’s absolute proof that they are in fact not protesting. I cannot post citations for a non-event.
    - But go head, show us current mass Greek protests. You’re the one who claims them. This will be entertaining.

    - Indeed, those who cannot refute the information I post (many have tried & failed, ask utu for example) usually keep quiet because they know they cannot refute my information and will show their laughable ignorance if they try.

    - Your frustration & desperation is showing mightily, you only have yourself to blame.
    For me being an “uneducated blowhard” (IQ 152) you certainly have acquired an obsession for me. LOL

    - BTW, German economics of the NS era are not the topic of this thread. Please read the article. I see no mention of it.

    Have a good one.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  205. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    You mean the banging of pots that they stopped banging and took the money? LOL

    Resuming the banging of pots will take time. And who exactly is the “they” that took the money? Certainly not the Argentinan 99%.

    In a few years, the new $50 billion debt will be the least of the Argentinians’ worries. A new Jewish colony is probably even now being prepared, with three U.S. military bases installed in the region to protect it. And it’s likely that when the colony is firmly established, it will try to secede. Then there will be war, unless the U.S. bases are too intimidating. The average Argentinan will really have something to worry about.

    But not the oligarchs of Argentina. They have already taken a $50 billion bribe.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Wally
  206. Tim too says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hello, Jacques:

    its obvious that Wally doesn’t understand the significance of the global social division of labor, the control of international development. Thus the inability to comprehend that the concept of productivity itself, and that laziness is inapplicable.

    • Agree: jacques sheete, L.K
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Wally
    , @L.K
  207. @Wally

    - BTW, German economics of the NS era are not the topic of this thread. Please read the article. I see no mention of it.

    Oh, you don’t think so? FYI, the Argentinians are suffering from the same types of criminal actions as what the Germans faced. If you’re so smart, why can’t you see it? You still never answered my question about what they were fighting. Why the sudden silence?

    Just answer the question, and I’ll show you how the topics are related. Anyway, Argentinian and Greek “laziness” are not the topics of this thread, so why do you keep harping on that simple minded claptrap?

    But go head, show us current mass Greek protests. You’re the one who claims them.

    OK, genius, tell me where I said they were. In case you missed it, you are the one who claimed they were not protesting so the onus probandi is on you. You self proclaimed “geniuses” sure don’t know much nor do you understand logic.

    - The Greeks are obviously not protesting because they are not protesting.
    That’s absolute proof that they are in fact not protesting.

    Do you know what a tautology is? Obviously not. Anyway, that’s not proof. It’s not even evidence. It’s just your claim, which you cannot substantiate in any manner. Also, the Germans protested (rather loudly ) and you can see how far that got ‘em.

    So, genius, tell us what they should do in protest, and tell us which Argentinians got the loot. That, my dear brainwad, IS a topic of the article, and you’ve repeatedly failed to answer it. You may need to reread the article, not that you’ll get it even then.

    • Replies: @Wally
  208. @Wally

    Thank you. You proved my point. The article is not about Argentina in general, but about a specific problem the “Volk” of Argentina face.

    Cheers!

    The only lazy one around here appears to be you. Can’t even provide a few links to support your farcical claim.

  209. @Vidi

    Wally (IQ 152) can’t grasp the concept.

    Pretty funny stuff with the ‘genius” crowd around here.

  210. @Tim too

    its obvious that Wally doesn’t understand the significance of the global social division of labor, the control of international development. Thus the inability to comprehend that the concept of productivity itself, and that laziness is inapplicable.

    It’s obvious he doesn’t know what the article is about, either, nor does he comprehend how the global mafiosi have been working for centuries.

    The great genius’ profound insight is that the Argentine people are lazy, which isn’t even a topic of the article, and which he cannot substantiate, let alone prove!

    Amazing stuff.

    • Replies: @Wally
  211. ATBOTL says:
    @Polish Perspective

    No offense, but Poland has been strongly favored by the Anglo-Globalist elite becuase it is seen a bulwark against hated Russia. They wouldn’t want to do anything to make Poland too angry or unstable.

    The Anglo-Globalist Empire is not always so generous with other countries as to let them off of the hook for debts as you say Poland was let off the hook. In a country like Argentina, unlike Poland, there is the very real possibility of global financial elites using murder, torture and mass violence against anyone who tries conduct “very tough negotiations.” This actually happened only three decades ago.

    Knowledge of that colors the reactions of Argentina’s leaders and voters.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  212. Leon says:

    This Macri, is the worst NeoLiberal. Debts and social cruelty with retirees, teachers, and salaried people.

    • Replies: @L.K
  213. @ATBOTL

    …there is the very real possibility of global financial elites using murder, torture and mass violence against anyone who tries conduct “very tough negotiations.” This actually happened only three decades ago.

    Yes there is and there is a long history of it so thanks for pointing it out. It’s obvious, but too many uneducated “geniuses,” such Wally (IQ 152), completely miss the verity of the concept even when it’s pointed out to them. He’s apparently too lazy to educate himself so’s reduced to repeating unsubstantiated and likely false claims.

  214. Note to “geniuses” who don’t get it. Linh Dinh, who admits to being no genius (but actually writes as if he is one), has a few points for you.

    Goodbye to 12th and Chesnut, where in 2015 I met a homeless man with an IQ of 165. John’s SAT score was 1560, just 40 short of the maximum.

    In case you don’t already know, Philadelphia is filled with geniuses. Just yesterday, I met one more, 65-ish Jim, in the Friendly Lounge, “I’m a genius. I’m a combination of Albert Einstein, H.G. Well and Thomas Edison.

    No meaningful resistance against our criminal overlords can begin unless we probe, purge and overhaul our banking, media and educational system, for there dwell the main traitors and perverters of this country.

    -LINH DINH, Last Philly Glimpses

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/last-philly-glimpses/

    Let me emphasize:

    No meaningful resistance against our criminal overlords can begin unless we probe, purge and overhaul our banking, media and educational system, for there dwell the main traitors and perverters of this country. I bet Hudson would agree.

    • Agree: Dillon Sweeny
  215. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Oooh, I’ve really gotten under your skin. Good.

    You keep repeating the same nonsense that I have refuted.
    Clearly you are not a “genius”.

    Please show us that the Greeks are still protesting. You claim it, so back it up, dumsky.
    Until then, the Greeks are obviously not protesting because they cannot be shown to be protesting.

    The average lazy Argentine got the loot. It keeps their lazy & productive ways going.
    Now they want more. Like fat, spoiled children.

    Have a good one.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  216. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    Considering that ‘Argentina / Argentines’ are mentioned ca. 37 times in the article, I would say the article is about Argentina. LOL

    BTW, the article title is:
    Argentina’s New $50 Billion IMF Loan Is Designed to Replay Its 2001 Crisis

    Cheers.

  217. Wally says:
    @Tim too

    said:
    “its obvious that Wally doesn’t understand the significance of the global social division of labor, the control of international development”

    Where is that covered in the article under discussion?

    Bye.

  218. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    Don’t know anything about your “new Jewish colony”, but US military bases in Argentina are a waste of US taxpayers money.

    But the lazy & unproductive Argentines will no doubt accept & love them since they will pump more unearned cash into their pockets.

    And do try to get those incredible pots banging again. LOL

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  219. @peterAUS

    Did THe IJN give the british and asstralians a good hiding in the indian ocean and malaysia you cowardly asstralian , british diaspora are only victorious vs tiny and weak countries

  220. @Jeff Stryker

    Indians are superior genetically than all the white races and have big brains to boot the genes itself make native americans and asians biologically superior to skin cancer prone whites,

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  221. @Wally

    Oooh, I’ve really gotten under your skin. Good.

    Now that would be the goal of a troll and not a “genius” grade response (IQ 152 ???).Tsk, tsk.

    PS:You argue like you “reason”, i.e., like a lazy hasbara troll.

    BTW: You still have not substantiated your airhead claim that the masses of Greeks and Argentinians are lazy, but keep trying to avoid your responsibility. Also, your credibility here is probably next to zero, and sliding rapidly so it’s likely no one will with a brain will accept your claim on its own. Aren’t you the guy who loves to add links to his comments even tho they’re the same ones over and over, in lazy-boy fasion? Why no links substantiating your dippy claims about laziness?

    Anyway keep revealing yourself. It’s quite amusing.

    Sorry! :)

    • Agree: L.K
    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Wally
  222. L.K says:
    @jacques sheete

    A lazy troll indeed, and a very foolish one at that… at this point, wally is just merely spamming the thread…

    Is wally a bankster? Is he in the financial ‘industry’? If so, we’d have an explanation for his behavior…
    If not, and I’ve heard he is not, then wally is a much bigger idiot than we can surmise. :-)

    Anyway, when you can, watch the following presentation;

    A Discussion with Michael Hudson, Ellen Brown, & Walt McRee

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @gsjackson
  223. L.K says:
    @Leon

    This Macri, is the worst NeoLiberal. Debts and social cruelty with retirees, teachers, and salaried people.

    Certainly… but Macri is a good vassal to ZUS deep state interests & representative of local sell out oligarchs.

  224. L.K says:
    @Tim too

    Hey Tim too,

    If you haven’t yet, also check out Cambridge South Korean economist Ha-Joon Chang.
    He’s written several great books, one of which is ‘Kicking Away the Ladder: Development Strategy in Historical Perspective’.

    Cheers

    • Replies: @Tim too
  225. @L.K

    looks interesting nd i intend to view it. Thanks!

  226. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    But the lazy & unproductive Argentines will no doubt accept & love them since they will pump more unearned cash into their pockets.

    I ask you once more, and stop avoiding the question. Who exactly are the Argentines that are getting nearly all the $50 billion “loan”? The vast majority of the people, who were banging pots all day long in protest?

    Don’t know anything about your “new Jewish colony”

    You don’t seem to know much about anything.

    but US military bases in Argentina are a waste of US taxpayers money.

    I agree, but the three new US bases will still be built. Clearly, they are for protecting the new Jewish colony in southern Argentina. (And in addition, tens of thousands of soldiers from Israel take “vacations” there.) Why would the colony need protecting? Likely because it will do something utterly repulsive, as Israel does routinely. Argentina will have a major headache in the coming years.

    But that is nothing to the headache Israel will have. For the very existence of the probable Jewish colony in Argentina is an indication that the little country in the Middle East will not be there for much longer.

    • Replies: @Wally
  227. Wally says:
    @jacques sheete

    As I said & you ignore, Greeks & Argentines have proven the laziness by their repeated actions.
    They take loans and keep asking for more.

    fact:
    Argentina has already defaulted seven times (count ‘em) on ‘loans’. Oops!

    Not exactly what productive people do. LOL

    Dear child, if you’re going to keep repeating the same things that I have refuted then I suggest that it is you who this troll.

  228. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    - Who? Argentines of course.

    - Please show us the latest ‘banging of pots.’
    Sorry sir, it’s hard to keep from laughing.

    - Please show us your “Jewish colony”.

    - We agree, US bases are bad.

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  229. gsjackson says:
    @L.K

    Reading Web of Debt by Ellen Brown ten years ago was one of the most eye-opening experiences of my life. Hudson is simply the best economist alive, and a natural teacher. I learn something new pretty much every time I read something by him.

    • Replies: @Wally
  230. Wally says:
    @gsjackson

    said:
    “Hudson is simply the best economist alive, and a natural teacher. I learn something new pretty much every time I read something by him.”

    No doubt, there are those who curiously say they like Marxist economists like Hudson, while Marxist economies have yet to succeed.

    • Troll: L.K
  231. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    Who? Argentines of course.

    Ducking the question once more, Mister Honesty?

    I asked you to be specific about which Argentinans will be getting nearly all the $50 billion, the 99% or the 1%, and you have been like Bill Clinton avoiding questions about a blue dress.

    Please show us your “Jewish colony”.

    From:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/does-israel-have-a-patagonia-project-in-argentina/5624434

    hundreds of thousands [of empty houses] have been built

    (emphasis added). Note: the new Jewish area is near the south pole, so the “hot vacation spot” explanation is beyond laughable. There is only one other reason for building hundreds of thousands of empty houses in that frozen area: a colony.

    Obviously, the three new U.S. bases nearby are intended for protecting that colony, if it commits an Israeli-style atrocity. The bases will also be useful if (when) the colony splits from Argentina.

    • Replies: @Wally
  232. @britishbrainsize1325cclol

    The Gallegos actually did a good number on the Mestizos and they accept the pure Creole as the Lord and Master.

    But when they come over the border, they give Anglo-Saxons shit.

  233. Michael Hudson incorrectly identifies the President/Kirchner who defaulted on the IMF loan in 2003; it was Nestor Kirchner (https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/10/business/argentina-defaults-on-3-billion-imf-debt.html).

    Nestor also crowed in the local press that it was the best business deal in history.

    I was living in a neighbouring country and moto touring in Argentina in 12/2001 when the wheels came off, and living there (4 years total) when Nestor defaulted on the IMF.

    Have lived in a neighbouring country the past 10 years, and visit every few years.

    Please get the minimum facts correct.

  234. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    Argentines will get the money? My answer was correct.

    Your Jewish “colony”(really some land bought by a Jew) was part of your claim the US bases will built to protect it.
    Heretofore you have not proved your assertion.

    Given you logic, any US base near a plot of land owned by a Jew is there to protect that plot of land.

    I do not see the “colony” or bases mentioned in IMF loan, the subject of the article under discussion.

    I notice you are constantly changing the subject, since you’ve been hammered on the subject of the article.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  235. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    Argentines will get the money? My answer was correct.

    Bill Clinton wasn’t lying either, he just didn’t answer the questions.

    My question to you was and still is: which Argentines will be getting nearly all the $50 billion, the 99% or the 1%?

    Of course, as Mister Honest, you’ll continue to avoid answering.

    In my opinion, the new Jewish colony in Argentina is strong evidence that even some Jews think that Israel will not survive much longer. The Jews who think so must be highly placed, with enough authority to order tens of thousands of Israeli soldiers to “vacation” in the new land.

    Heretofore you have not proved your assertion.

    I do not intend to “prove” what you think was my assertion.

    • Replies: @Wally
  236. Tim too says:
    @L.K

    Thanks, L.K.

    just found a collection of Ha-Joon Chang’s works, I’m always looking for good reads, thanks again

  237. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    The average lazy Argentine will get the money. Like they have with the previous seven defaults. That free money is what perpetuates their laziness & low productivity.
    Otherwise they wouldn’t keep electing people who will get them free money.
    And they DO elect them. Oops.

    Your laughable “Jew colony” is merely some rich guy who invites his fellow Jews to vacation there.
    Did the Israelis steal this land in Argentina and are now planning to annex it to Israel?
    No, one rich guy purchased it and no doubt some Argentines made money from it. At last we have some Argentines who can support themselves.

    You said that the US bases were built / are being built to protect this rich Jew’s land.
    But you cannot back-up your assertions.

    Cheers

    • Replies: @Vidi
  238. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    The average lazy Argentine will get the money.

    You aren’t answering my question. Again.

    I asked which Argentines will be getting nearly all of the $50 billion, the 99% or the 1%. (Emphases added to show what Mister Honest is deliberately not addressing.)

    But you cannot back-up your assertions.

    A child thinks the future can be proven. An adult assesses the probabilities.

    (1) The newly purchased area is several times the size of Israel.
    (2) Several hundred thousand empty houses have been built on it.
    (3) Tens of thousands of Israeli soldiers have been there.
    (4) Three — not one, not two, but three — U.S. bases will be nearby.

    The overwhelming likelihood is that the area near Lago Escondido is intended to be a new Jewish settlement or colony, and the U.S. bases will be there to protect it — and to enforce a probable split between the new Jewish land and the rest of Argentina.

    By the way, point (3) is serious. For it means that someone in authority thinks the colony is urgent enough to send a lot of soldiers there — soldiers that will be needed badly in the next war in the Levant. Someone that highly placed is undoubtedly well informed about Israel’s strategic position — and he is clearly not encouraged about it.

    • Replies: @Wally
  239. Wally says:
    @Vidi

    - The Argentine citizens will get the money. As I explained & you dodged
    Prove otherwise if you can. LOL

    - Please show us a map of this land that a Jew supposedly bought. LOL

    - Please show us these “several hundred thousand empty houses”. LOL

    - Please give us proof that “Tens of thousands of Israeli soldiers have been there.”
    Tens of thousands? LOL

    - Please give us proof that the US bases are there because of this one Jew’s alleged land purchase. LOL
    You dodged that one too.

    - Please give proof that Israel is planning to annex this land. LOL
    You dodged that question too.

    Your imagination & paranoia are well, quite laughable. LOL

    I’m STILL waiting for you to prove our bizarre assertions. LOL

    Keep banging those pots, Mr. Unhinged. LOL

    • Replies: @Vidi
  240. Vidi says:
    @Wally

    - The Argentine citizens will get the money. As I explained & you dodged
    Prove otherwise if you can. LOL

    So you are reduced to misquoting me and then attacking what I did not say. But what else can I expect from Mister Honest?

    Of course, you can continue to avoid my question, like Bill Clinton demanding what “is” is. I will let you get on with it.

    Your imagination & paranoia are well, quite laughable. LOL

    Of course, you are in deep denial that the future of Israel isn’t promising, so you are laughing me off.

    A Jewish billionaire, however, disagrees with you so strongly that he is buying an enormous area and financing the construction of hundreds of thousands of houses in a tearing hurry. And an Israeli military officer powerful enough to order tens of thousands of soldiers is assisting in securing the new land. Perhaps they are wrong and you are right.

    But remember that you are disagreeing with a billionaire and a military officer of high rank, both of whom are probably extremely well-informed, who apparently think the Israelis will be retreating soon. You can’t deny that they might, just possibly, be right.

    I leave you with this thought. Sweet dreams.

  241. Anon-cdn says:

    Argentina on paper is very impressive; kind of a southern Canada
    . The problem is cultural: more than half the country are Southern Italians. Without an honest and industrious nOrth, Italy would be a European Argentina.
    This dynamic – the rich exiting and reentering the economy- is now hard wired. It’s not new-01 and ’18 are just the newer iterations. The argentine elite are vicous parasites- don’t like it? Would you like martial.law?
    Elites raping and pillaging in a ‘democracy’….where have I seen this before?

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