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Karaoke at the Golden Cicada, Jersey City
Karaoke at the Golden Cicada, Jersey City

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Years ago in McGlinchey’s, a Philly dive, I overheard a female voice, “I don’t know how anyone can get married, I don’t know, before they’re 45. I mean, hello!” The woman was in her mid-20’s.

In 2014, I was at the Golden Cicada in Jersey City when a karaoke session broke out. The participants were a group of three gay guys and two single women, plus a straight couple. In metropolitan New York, one often hears women complain about the dearth of straight men, so it’s no surprise to see these young ladies enjoying a night out with their gay buddies.

As for the couple, she was Indian and he, Italian. We talked. Staring lovingly at her boyfriend, she cooed that they were engaged. He showed no emotion.

As the increasingly boisterous singers howled, “No one knows what it’s like / To be the bad man / To be the sad man / Behind blue eyes,” I thought of India-born poet Reetika Vazirani. She had a child out of wedlock with Yusef Komunyakaa. I’ve had dinners with Yusef in Philly and New York, but I never saw Reetika face-to-face. We exchanged some emails.

On October 15th, 2002, she sent me:

After a long time. Wanted to say hello and say where I am with little Jehan who is nearly two. We are well.

Sending you the best.

Reetika

On March 25th, 2003, she wrote:

Dear Linh,

It has been so long since our dialogue in The Literary Review. I would like to stay in touch. Here is my number: 757-565-1810. I’ll be moving at the end of April. Can we speak before then?

My best, and many thanks for the messages,

Reetika

This request for a phone chat was a bit odd, I thought. Emailing back, I explained that I was in Italy. Though I was warm and solicitous enough, I never phoned Reetika. I dislike talking over the phone.

I received one more email from Reetika in May, then in July, words came that she had stabbed her son to death before committing suicide. Reetika and Jehan never lived with Yusef, but rented a house near him in Trenton. During her final months, she reached out to many people. Surely someone could have said something to save the 41-year-old woman and her baby?

One should recall that Jehan is the name of that man who loved his wife most enduringly, for after she died, he commissioned 20,000 artisans over two decades to conjure up that “dream in marble,” the Taj Mahal.

Since the poetry world is small, I know another of Yusef’s girlfriends. Savvier, she didn’t expect too much from their relationship. In her mid-40’s, this poet wrote a humorous newspaper article about online dating, then managed to get married soon after.

Though you can’t count on sampling endless partners before settling down at 45, this culture dopes us into thinking we can be young forever, with all options open until that cremation chamber. Just before we turn to ashes, we can have that last botox implant, face-lift and buttock augmentation. Men ape Hugh Hefner, and women, Madonna. Bring on the fresh meat!

A young Augustine bargained with God, “Give me chastity, but not yet.” We of the 21st century don’t care for checks to our appetite. Just give us protean sex! Chastity still comes, however, as too many of us find ourselves unmarried, loveless and compulsively molesting our forlorn, nether parts while ogling chaturbate. Boy, that felt good!

In 2013, I met three women in Oakland. They were in their early 30’s, cool, smart, attractive and fairly miserable. Three or four nights a week, you could find them sipping cocktails outside the Make Westing bar on Telegraph Avenue. It’s a hipster hangout, with two bocce courts inside.

Let’s call our three graces Splendor, Mirth and Good Cheer. Raised in Oklahoma, Splendor moved to San Francisco to have better access to art, knowledge and decadence. She lived in the Tenderloin, where a whore climbed through her window via the fire escape. Relocated to Oakland, Splendor was teaching 6th grade history and English in a public school.

After marrying without much conviction or a wedding, Splendor found herself mostly alone. “We have an open marriage. Charlie leaves when he feels like, and comes back when he feels like. He can disappear for months of a time. I don’t want to stand in the way of my husband’s freedom.”

Mirth was finishing a PhD in biology at Berkeley. For nearly three years, she was in a relationship, but each time her man proposed marriage, Mirth said no, thanks. It felt enough like marriage since they were living together and even bought a car together. When Mirth won a six-month fellowship to study in Paris, she finally agreed to get engaged. This way, her boyfriend could be assured she would come back and not shack up with some French beau.

Settled in Paris, Mirth decided she would jog each one of its streets, so for a month, her map filled up with red lines. She would conquer Paris, alley by alley. Her giddiness was torpedoed when friends in Berkeley emailed to say her fiancé was regularly seen with another woman. Mirth flew back to confront him, but the cad refused to meet. Dodging Mirth, he even left their apartment when she moved her stuff out. He kept their Chevy. Just like that, their relationship had turned into a public joke.

Trying to get even, Mirth kept raw fish in a jar on a balcony, in the sun. She planned on pouring the rotted slime into her ex’s carburetor. “That car would stink forever!” All that happened, though, was Mirth getting on all fours to clean up the shattered, splattered mess after seagulls knocked the jar over.

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Good Cheer was also doing a Berkeley PhD, but in literature. Since her live-in boyfriend was a star poet among her crowd, Good Cheer cherished all of his intense emails. She was his muse and confidante. An aspiring poet herself, Good Cheer would be a Sylvia Plath to his Ted Hughes, but minus the suicide. Without hints or explanations, however, he dumped her. Good Cheer took it in strides and still considered her boyfriend of three years a close friend.

When I met these lovelies, they were certainly alluring enough to score transient boyfriends or at least bed partners. Sadness was creeping in, however, and Splendor even admitted, “I have two cats because, well, it gets lonely.” She showed me self-made ceramics that resembled mangled uteruses, frankly. Resisting a primal urge to sniff them, I merely grunted, “These are nice.”

Two months ago, I profiled a young Philadelphia woman, B.B. Growing up in post-industrial and crime-wracked Camden, she suffered through a turbulent childhood spent mostly in foster homes and even jail, simply because the state had nowhere else to house her. Her dad died from work exposure to asbestos. Her stepfather sexually molested her.

At 32, B.B. got engaged, only to break it up when she found her man cheating. They fought. After B.B.’s fiancé accused her of stabbing him, she was jailed for 10 days, but the charge was tossed.

Again, B.B.’s life was in turmoil, with the only stability her two-days-a-week job at the Friendly Lounge, my local dive. Since B.B. said she had always wanted to write, I gave her tips and even an assignment. Tailored for B.B., it’s a 1,000-word story called “Creeps.” As an attractive bartender in an old man’s hangout, she certainly didn’t lack material.

Welcoming this challenge, B.B. thanked me repeatedly and gave me a drawing of a rabbit, with thread stitched into the paper. She promised me another rabbit, personalized. “You’re my only audience,” she confessed.

I showed B.B. a poem, published in Harper’s, that’s derived from my years as a house cleaner. It begins, “Belonging to the lower class, you’re expected / To cater to the upper class’ lower bodily functions.” Her work experience matters, I kept telling B.B., and of course her layers of wounds. She has overcome so much.

Each Thursday, I brought my laptop to the bar so B.B. could type out a draft, but there was nothing. She couldn’t focus. I read in her notebook an old account of a dream with a dead goose.

Listen, I have no illusion about writing as a career or vocation. As a public overture, it’s mostly pathetic, if not bathetic. So futile, most writers are lucky to have one attentive reader, counting the writer. As a meditation on self and the world, however, it can never be useless, for writing is just thinking made concrete. Writing is a deed to one’s experiences.

B.B. texted me:

it’s difficult to articulate but, it’s as though despite all i have and want to say, all I can see, all i can think about or even write about, are the issues I’ve been going through an trying to deal with in my personal life.. i know I need to get past it if iam to go anywhere with my life, let along my writing. i just don’t know how to go about getting past it all, it’s as though these problems have consumed me, and there is not even a “me” anymore… in the vacancy of where i was, are the problems and heartache that caused me to disappear.

Most alarmingly, B.B. spoke of suicide on two occasions. She said she didn’t know how to live, and just wanted to end it all. I tried to comfort B.B., cheer her up. I told her she needed time to heal, and surely she would heal.

Since suicide is the ultimate blasphemy, many of those who failed at the attempt speak of experiencing the darkest terror during their brief death. It is a paradox that one of the most devouts ever, Simone Weil, was a suicide, but of course, so was Jesus. God killed a third of himself. He also had a get-out-of-hell card. We don’t.

On Thanksgiving, the Friendly was closed, so B.B. lost half of that week’s wage. She ended up dumpster diving. Hunger-weakened and with carpal tunnel syndrome, B.B. had to strain to lift each heavy lid.

This week, along with my laptop I brought B.B. a story I published in 1997. Since it has a bar setting and a character from Camden, I thought she might be inspired by it. One of the dialogues is lifted straight from a conversation I had in McGlinchey’s. “You hear crazy shit like this all the time, so use it!” I was going to tell B.B.

When I opened the door, I saw a brand new bartender, however, and the place seemed darker than usual. It was dead. There was but one customer, a middle-aged woman with wiry, uncombed hair and a shabby jacket, hunched over an ashtray and her High Life.

“B.B. is not working today?”

“Nope!”

“Do you know when she’ll work next?”

“I don’t think she’ll be back.”

“She got fired?!”

“I don’t know.”

Home, I texted B.B., then called to make sure she was OK. Receiving no answer for two days, I feared the worst.

One of B.B.’s tattoos is “XXIII,” meaning she only found love, sort of, with her 23rd boyfriend. Sex hounded B.B. constantly. Men of all ages propositioned her daily with dinner, cash, coke or weed. Of course, she longed for love. Another ink of hers is “DIE BITCH.”

Many people talk of killing themselves, but how many have it etched into their skin? Years ago, a Friendly Lounge bartender became a massage therapist, then got busted twice for prostitution. Boozing in Friendly, she flirted with Don, its owner, then slurred that she wanted to off herself. Calling her bluff, Don laughed, “Can you lend me $50 first?” The 42-year-old overdosed on Seconal within a week.

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Editor Frank Wilson told me he spent three long evenings talking a friend out of ending her life. The night she finally did it, this smart, accomplished woman had a dozen close friends over. The dinner was a feast. An hour later, the lonely woman was dead. “If they really want to do it, there’s nothing you can do.”

In the early 90’s, I served in Philly’s City Hall Art Council with Ella King Torrey. She would rise to become President of the San Francisco Art Institute. Ella was tall, well-liked, never married, childless, in a field she loved, financially secure and with a spectacular career trajectory. In any room, Ella always had the biggest smile. She collected African-American quilts, drove long distance to see Cher’s Farewell Tour. Hillary Clinton invited Ella to the White House. At 45, she killed herself.

From Cleveland, Elizabeth Hayes sent me a most harrowing account of her attempted suicide, “Why I Jumped off the Lorain-Carnegie Bridge.” The key reason, in my mind, is her ill-considered marriage. Elizabeth:

When I was 19 somebody asked me, “But don’t you want to get married?” I said, “If I’m gonna get married, it will have to be 1) some autistic guy and 2) someone who is gone a lot.” By autistic, I meant somebody who would leave me alone and be incapable, and disinterested, in figuring out what I’m up to, as long as I’m fairly discrete. At 33, I decided I really wanted to have a child, so should find someone to marry, and none of the guys I’d been hanging with would think of having a child with anything but horror, and would have gotten pissed at me even bringing the matter up. And don’t give me this nonsense about how single motherhood is the way to go.

Then I met Malvin, appropriately named as it turned out (bad wine, get it?), a jazz musician (flute and sax) who had a steady job as a bureaucrat at Welfareland. At 45 he wanted to finally settle down, and get this, beyond his stupid bureaucrat job, he gigged at least three times a week! That fulfilled criterion number two, and Mal’s mood variations were nil, any intuitive powers lacking, which fulfilled criterion number one. Therefore, I decided I’d get a baby out of him.

In 2014, there were 41,143 American suicides, as compared to 16,108 murders. We hate ourselves and each other more than the citizens of just about any other First World nation. We are also the champs of drug taking and porn watching.

In practically any other place or time, a woman like B.B. would be a wife and mother, but here, now, sex is divorced from love, and we wouldn’t have it any other way. In this context, declarations of love are often cynical ploys, but better love sans sex than sex sans love, I’d say, though perhaps not yet. Soixante-neuf, mon chéri?

The ultimate poem, the marriage vows should outlast all others, “I take you to be my lawfully wedded husband/wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.”

Declared at a wedding, in front of practically everyone one knows, the vows are made not just to one’s spouse but the entire community that one will be a responsible adult, at last.

For a century, we’ve been reeducated about the evils of marriage, however. In 2013, youngish Canadian feminist Meghan Murghy reminded us:

Marriage has been an institution within which women have suffered abuse, rape, murder and forced reproduction. It’s an institution that guaranteed men a maid and someone to bear and raise their offspring.

That’s why Murphy wanted no part of it, although she’s interested in “a monogamous, love-type relationship” with, eventually, “a life partner.”

Most Western men born after WWII actually welcome such a rejection, for it means many booty calls and intimate relationships that can be ditched at will, even without pretexts. Feminists’ disavowal of the traditional family means much more variety for these horndogs.

Growing up among “church mouses,” my drinking buddy Marty was liberated by feminism to pounce on 140 sniffable, lickable and squeezable trophies, while blowing up five marriages along the way.

Encouraging heartlessness and dishonesty, this freedom to fornicate breeds cynicism, wrecks home and traumatizes children, but who wants to hear that? Sex is fun, rejuvenating, soul shaking, revenge, raid, exploration and carthasis, dude, while marriage anchors and delimits. Since husbands and fathers can be such tyrants, let’s just have playas. Pork and run is cool.

In my defense of marriage, I raved to the three Oakland graces, “To love is not to embrace a beautiful body but a decaying, aging person, practically a corpse.” Invite me to your next party, eh?

Alas, B.B. is not yet a cadaver. She just texted me. Like many among us, she will put on a brave face and slog forward. Tailed and cornered by creeps, she may even pretend that she is loved.

Linh Dinh’s Postcards from the End of America will be published by Seven Stories Press in January of 2017. Tracking our deteriorating socialscape, he maintains a photo blog.

 
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Feminism 
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  1. Ivy says:

    Women are confused and they have been sold a false product. They want to have it all but many will admit that the prospect of so much scares them. When going from bound to unbound there are likely to be disruptions and adjustments.

    Think of life as if living in a tight outfit and then shedding that outfit. The body has to adjust to the new conditions and lack of physical, emotional and psychological support, the muscles need to tone, the mind needs to adapt, or not. Many women don’t want that new responsibility but are ridiculed and shamed if they reject the proposed program.

    Biology is harsh and unforgiving, but is a fact to be acknowledged. Nature always wins.

  2. Why, one might almost think it’s part of a — I don’t know — PLAN, or something…

    • Replies: @JackOH
  3. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Philosopher Janis Joplin told us that freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. Seems as if people have been sold a bill of goods with some hidden costs. Feminism has had a corrosive effect on society and alienated atomization is one result. Since the article deals with women not feeling happy I have to ask how many of them actually considered that they’d need to work at making someone else happy as part of the bargain or did they think it was something that would be showered upon them with little or no effort on their part? I suspect the latter. Can’t get without giving.

  4. Dan Hayes says:

    A very wise and perceptive essay on the state (or lack) of modern marriage. Unfortunately it’s all too true. Again many thanks Linh for giving us an insight into modern-reality.

  5. Talha says:

    Wow – just – wow! I had no idea there were so many women hurting this bad. Thanks for sharing their stories Mr. Dinh.

    Peace.

  6. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Women are dumb as hell.

    • Replies: @Realist
  7. Readers of Chateau Heartiste will easily see in this story the consequences of women riding the alpha cock carousel, and the civilization-destroying consequences of feminism. Most women with children, even in unhappy marriages, are better off than these wretches.

  8. My fallow Americans, ponder this screed, throw away those Trojans and get busy! Then busier, raising kids. That is the only truly creative thing that most humans will ever be able to do.

  9. This is wonderful and horrible. Thank you.

  10. Initials B.B.?
    I saw what you did there, Gainsbarre.

  11. Truth says:

    this culture dopes us into thinking we can be young forever, with all options open until that cremation chamber. Just before we turn to ashes, we can have that last botox implant, face-lift and buttock augmentation. Men ape Hugh Hefner, and women, Madonna. Bring on the fresh meat!

    You nailed that one square.

    You watch movies like Eat Prey Love, and some other trash heap I just watched with Vince Vaughn and Aniston, and they always tell you that leaving what you have is the best option for you. The goofy dude always somehow gets into a room with a bunch of 22-y/o Asian strippers, and the chick leaves him to happily “find herself.” The strange thing about this is that Dudes don’t seem to realize that they have an expiration date too. It’s not as firm as the broads is, but it’s there if you are not unusually charismatic or successful, it starts clicking at 40.

    I’ve met really incredible playboys in my life, I mean true magicians with women, and the thing they all had in common was that they were truly miserable by 45. Yes, for, I would say 90 of the world, the ideal is a fairly young marriage (a few people just aren’t built for it).

    …But that’s not what your masters want, so they keep pushing what they push, and yes it’s intentional…

    PS: This is your best article yet Dinh.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  12. Most Western men born after WWII actually welcome such a rejection, for it means many booty calls and intimate relationships that can be ditched at will, even without pretexts. Feminists’ disavowal of the traditional family means much more variety for these horndogs.

    Meh, it’s women’s own fault, or to their credit depending on whether you believe anything was lost. They rejected the chivalrous model of marriage, home and kids at the behest of feminist slags who were the uglies that never got invited to the prom. These slags most assuredly would never have been asked their hand in marriage so naturally, they screwed it up for everyone else. How THOSE women wound up dictating their loveless existence to hundreds of millions of women the past 100 years or so is beyond me, but it worked then and still does today. It’s what women want after all.

    As for the notion that Western men welcomed said rejection of the marriage model, we didn’t welcome it. Rather, we only learned to “operate” within the new model of hitting and running, pumping and dumping, if you will, that feminists set up and dictated their sisters follow. That those women wound up unhappy, don’t blame me and my fellow horn dogs. Women after all, make the rules. From there, operators operate, the best operators being those men who at an early age, throw away chivalrous notions and treat women the way women need to be treated in the Post-Chivalrous age of modern feminism. It’s what women want after all.

    After all the talk of our fathers on how to treat the women as gentle princesses, to be gentlemen, it’s liberating for a man not to be concerned for the welfare of random women formerly known as “The Fairer Sex”. Much easier on a cold and dark night to say “Sorry, no jumper cables” when I have them, or “Sorry I don’t know how to change a flat tire” when I do, and walking away. A carpenter, mechanic, electrician and all-round fixer of things, when I’m dating some broad and she needs something fixed around the house, I clam up because she wouldn’t appreciate it anyway and then the flow of requests would never end, even to the point of “loaning me out” to fix her friends’ shit. Why should I? I’m getting what I want from her anyway. This is the world they shaped. And who am I to interfere with their wishes, not that I could anyway? It’s what women wanted after all.

    Male-Female relationships in the West are about some comfort, a little friendship if they’re capable and of course, getting L-A-I-D, not necessarily in that order. Get this much out of line Sweetie, and I’m on to the next one. The next chick is right around the corner and that train is never late. It’s what women want after all. Must be, because that’s the way it is.

  13. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Fathers are no longer patriarchs like Don Vito Corleone.

    They are trash who offer their daughters to Mammon.

    Sick and disgusting.

  14. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Mr Linh.

    Very good article. Thank you.

    Rarely is this kind of story told in America.

    • Replies: @jake
  15. I just bang pro independent escorts these days.

    I have the most honest relationships of anyone I know.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  16. Greg S. says:

    Feminism is destroying women and destroying society. This is not hyperbole, I actually believe this. Feminism lies, it tells women that they are just like men and can do anything a man can do. This is a lie, yet countless women are goaded into education and careers in things that make them miserable.

    Feminism tells women that men are useless and good for nothing, and so women treat men like dirt, and deny men a masculine protector role in their relationships, which then fail. It also turns these women into men – they are not caring or nurturing, they are “power women.” This makes them miserable but they don’t realize why. They are usually complete stress cases who can never be idle otherwise they would have to think about how miserable they are.

    Feminism has launched women into the upper echelons of boardrooms and high places, where they (often, not always) proceed to make terrible decisions because they lack the innate strategic thinking many men have. I work at such a place and the decisions from my female superiors are laughable and they have no concept of leadership.

    Feminism has ensured that government now takes care of women and children, who no longer need men to provide for them, so women have “families” without men. Feminism has also given men little incentive to form families, as the man takes on huge risks to do so. The man can literally lose everything he has in a marriage.

    An ex- girlfriend called herself a feminist. I thought I could convert her but failed. At the end, she was broke, in debt, expected me to support her and eventually take on those debts, and said I had no right to influence her decisions or tell her what to do because she was “still a feminist.” So I told her she could support herself and her bad choices on her own. Another potential family averted by feminism.

  17. Rod1963 says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    There is always a price to be paid and what looks like freedom isn’t freedom at all but another Faustian bargain.

    That’s what feminism was and is for women. What’s quite sad is that women know even in high school that males view sex entirely different than they do and they will if given the chance screw anything with a pulse. And again in college the differences in behavior is there for all to see. And of course these budding free spirited feminists all make a bee line for the alpha cock, who in reality is a total douche bag and creep.

    Yes they could find a mate who isn’t a douche nozzle but they aren’t fun guys nor sexy, they probably have a icky job like a plumber or code monkey. Not someone they can show off to their cool friends. Highly educated women being extremely class conscious just won’t lower themselves so they naturally limit themselves to some of the worst males in their social circle.

    It’s nothing new.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
  18. @Talha

    Wow – just – wow! I had no idea there were so many women hurting this bad. Thanks for sharing their stories Mr. Dinh.

    Hell, I’m no psychiatrist or psychoanalyst, and I’m really pretty dense, but it’s apparent even to me that there are tons of men that are hurting bad, too. The extensive use of mood altering drugs including alcohol probably means something.

    Years ago in McGlinchey’s, a Philly dive, I overheard a female voice, “I don’t know how anyone can get married, I don’t know, before they’re 45. I mean, hello!”

    I myself have often said that I’m glad I’m not female. For women, there is not only a dearth of straight males but a dearth of decent ones as well.

    LD, this is another dynamite article. Good stuff.

  19. Realist says:
    @Anonymous

    At least the white ones that vote against their own race.

  20. Dumbo says:

    Gee, that was cheerful.

  21. @anonymous

    You would be meaning philosopher Kris Kristofferson, the writer of the lyrics that Joplin sang.

  22. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Gloria Steinman and her ilk of family destroying feminazis should be proud of their plan coming to fruition.
    Yes, us men are so yucky, better to have a house filled with cats and a large rubber dildo for companionship, that will teach those men, who only have one thing in mind.

  23. neutral says:

    What is the deal with this Linh Dinh ? Is he supposed to be some kind of Vietnamese Tocqueville or is he supposed to be an agony aunt for first worlder problems ? And how on earth does he fund all of this, he is a poet, which normally means that one does not have the money to do endless globe trotting.

  24. Granted, I only skimmed the second half of the article, but I do want to mention that if the epidemic of suicide among middle-aged white people–men in particular–were happening to any other group, the MSM would be on it 24/7. Look up the stats if you dare.

    • Replies: @woodNfish
  25. BenKenobi says:

    Here at The End Of History the human costs of our glorious revolution are so obvious as to smack us in the face.

    How many of us can tell similar stories?

    A young woman I was close with — sweet, intelligent, cute, blonde, and yes I banged her — broke up with a long term boyfriend because his response to an accidental pregnancy was “good thing you can get rid of it with no stigma.” She got the abortion. And a cat. And is now on a thousand cock death march to punish herself for the fact. Women like this are legion.

    Our civilization has collapsed. But there’s always drinks and dancing in the rubble.

    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
  26. Seneca says:

    Wow.

    You nailed it… a real tour de force.

    Count me impressed.

  27. JackOH says:
    @SteveRogers42

    Yeah, agree. Toss together man-bashing feminist ideology and the corporations’ gaming of affirmative action to favor White women in employment, and what did people think they were going to get in the markets for dating and marriage? We’ve had a half-century of both at work. Anyone really think we’re better off? Blend in the “alternative lifestyles” lobbies for added social distortion. The single, middle-aged women I’ve known are often . . . scary desperate.

  28. @Greg S.

    Feminism is destroying women and destroying society. This is not hyperbole, I actually believe this.

    You are correct to believe it and it is not hyperbole. Tearing down society to “remake” it while not necessarily a bad thing in itself, has been a goal of some real crackpots and the sad thing is that they are winning.

    One of the goofiest and most rabid of the Red utopian nutjob Bolsheviks was Alexandra Kollantai. No one should ever forget that the Bolshie cats (among other degenerate perverts) were and probably still are considered avant garde and fashionable in high New York society, that the miserable money bag set supported them to the max, and no doubt also got some sort of sadistic pleasure by sacrificing countless millions in the process.

    But even if housework disappears, you may argue, there are still the children to look after. But here too, the workers’ state will come to replace the family, society will gradually take upon itself all the tasks that before the revolution fell to the individual parents. Even before the revolution, the instruction of the child had ceased to be the duty of the parents.

    Alexandra Kollontai, Communism and the Family, Komunistka, No. 2, 1920, and in English in The Worker, 1920;
    Source: Selected Writings of Alexandra Kollontai, Allison & Busby, 1977;
    Translated: by Alix Holt.

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1920/communism-family.htm

    • Replies: @woodNfish
  29. Is this article going to be in the Postcards… book?

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  30. Sunbeam says:
    @jacques sheete

    “I myself have often said that I’m glad I’m not female. For women, there is not only a dearth of straight males but a dearth of decent ones as well.”

    Wondered about this for a while.

    Look say you just want to have sex. Get your fix of the endorphins hitting your brain. Like any junkie I guess.

    If that’s what you want, you know “F#$% yourself to death,” well there are a whole lot of advantages to being gay.

    Instead of all the prep work and investment you have to do with women, you just work out and get nice clothes. Then you go to wherever the strip is, the gay bar, even the 3rd sublevel of the university library with the glory holes cut into it. Get your fix, then go home.

    And the next day you can do it all over again, without worrying about having to call them or not, or caring if you run into them again. Because, after all the person on the “other end” had exactly the same motivations you did, namely an eternal party without any strings attached.

    So to me, whenever I see a Lady’s Man, or Alpha Male, whatever you want to call them, I personally think “Dude, you could do this a lot more efficiently. And who knows? Maybe one fine day someone will device a system whereby you could sit in a corner with some Mountain Dew and Cheetos and fry your brain. You know like those rats in cages with the option to suck on the heroin teat as much as they want.”

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  31. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian

    An interesting (and true) statement.

  32. @neutral

    What is the deal with this Linh Dinh ?

    He’s the guy peeking behind the curtain and telling us about it.

  33. “Drove long distance to see Cher’s farewell show”

    “Was invited to the whitehouse by HC”

    “At 45 she killed herself”

    It all fits perfectly together, cynical as it may sound.

    Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” society member of forty-plus years and pro jazz artist.

  34. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @TelfoedJohn

    No, the Postcards book was sent to Seven Stories a while back. The book is already at the printer.

    It begins with 20 color portraits of people I met across the country. There’s Harriet in Richmond, VA. A beautiful lady, she worked in a thrift store.

    Though Jewish, Harriet got married in a church because her husband was Irish. “At the ceremony, the priest told me I should wear my Star of David inside my dress, and I had on a white dress because I was a virgin. I said, ‘I’ll wear this inside my dress if you remove that cross from the wall, behind you.’”

  35. Most people will not see the connection but this all traces back to : Karl Marx, the most evil MF to ever have set foot upon this insane planet.

    Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” Society member of forty-plus years and pro jazz artist.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  36. @BenKenobi

    ” thousand cock death march”

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

    Damn is that a great depiction.

    Authenticjazzman “Mensa” society member of forty-plus years and pro jazz artist.

  37. Home run, Linh. Particularly the penultimate paragraph. Count me among the uninvited.

    “Love abides.”

  38. iffen says:

    Absolutely one of your best, LD.

  39. Marcus says:

    In a lot of ways women are doing better than men, the new economy favors them, and they wanted to be independent careerists anyway, so no tears from me.

  40. I pray we all receive and give true love, which is our duty.

    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
  41. Hard hitting article, kudos Linh.

    Today’s society certainly makes it difficult for women to be women, men to be men, and children to be children. We are in a Fourth Turning underlain by a century of leftist “progress”. Things are going to get very ugly, but despite the turmoil around us we are still the captains of our own ship.

  42. @Inque Yutani

    At the end of the day, you don’t pay them to bang, you pay them to go away.

    • Replies: @Inque Yutani
  43. @Greg S.

    An excellent blast, and all true! Women are gullible, and stupid, and have been sold a false bill of goods w the big lie of feminism (others here have noted the same). These stupid women are pathetically moronic, thinking that they can will themselves into men. All these feminists want to be men, until they don’t. I think most of them need a punch in the face to welcome them to the fraternity. Have you ever worked with or for these women? They are the worst. they are bitschy and indecisive and incompetent, and never will step up and show leadership and let people know that they will be willing to take heat and blame if something goes wrong. They have no business being in any kind of leadership in government or the private sector. Oh, also, they *never* are wrong. How can anyone work with such arrogant meatheads? they turn a 10-minute meeting into 2 wasted hours b/c they can’t make a decision and they cannot get to the point but they have to talk and blather and waste everyone’s time. They are so useless, they want to be men but they can’t shingle a roof or unclog a toilet or catch a varmint or go up on a roof and clear the snow, or mine, or clean out a sewer system, or even pound a friggin nail. Without men, the world would come to a grinding halt by COB today. But women don’t need men. Their stupidity and entitlement mentality is mind boggling.
    Many men want nothing to do with them, understandably, and these women can’t figure this out b/c they have been told how awesome they are. Men’s job prospects are diminished and salaries lowered b/c of all the women in the work force, and men also have been hammered by all the immigrants coming in here and depressing everyone’s wages. Then women wonder why men don’t want to hitch themselves to a life with them, where everything costs more and you can’t afford kids unless everyone is working 90 hours/week and sitting in traffic 3 hours/day, doesn’t that sound like an exciting and rewarding 25-year proposition?
    then we are told the answer to a stabilizing/declining birth rate is …. import more third worlders! This country is so f’d, the only way of turning this around is to stop immigration dead in its tracks and deport all illegals. There is a lot of fixing to do.

    • Agree: Stonehands
    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Greg S.
  44. @Sunbeam

    Hey everyone! Have an drink of HIV/Hepatitis on Sunbeam! Yeah, yeah, I gotta get going on working out so I can stick my dick in a gloryhole. Faggots–this tale right here is proof positive it’s a choice, not imposed. A convenience.

    • Replies: @woodNfish
  45. Marcus says:
    @jacques sheete

    Opioid (often prescription) overdoses have nearly tripled since 2000. Alcohol consumption remains pretty low by historical standards.

    https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWwju1fFxSmkfZQd8rNps5Bym-d_0NRL6lQegUnRSQ4y7JCob0

    I myself have often said that I’m glad I’m not female. For women, there is not only a dearth of straight males but a dearth of decent ones as well.

    I find it to be much worse for men: American women are overwhelmingly obese, cold, and selfish, yet they retain high standards for men. Maybe increase in male homosexuality is due to lack of prospects.

    http://www.theamericanrose.net/2012/02/ridiculous-expectations-of-womennot-men.html

  46. Recently heard a story of a late-thirties jobless guy who lived on and off with two different professional women, both of whom were so desperate that they put up with his two-timing crap. They paid all his expenses while he spent his days lounging around their houses, playing computer games and generally being a slob. If one of them challenged his behavior he simply threatened to move back to the other.

    Feminism has unwittingly taken power away from women. Men for the most part aren’t interested in kids or relationships; for men, traditionally the only routes to sex was marriage or prostitution. Sex gave women control over men and any women in a long-term relationship with children had a degree of status in society that single childless women didn’t have.

    Now that men can get sex pretty much at will there is little motivation for them to commit. Why bother? As many comments here have said, men have been made redundant and this is contributing to their lack of interest in putting up with all the other stresses of a long-term partnership. By giving it away for free, woman have removed their single point of leverage over men. I’d be pretty sure this is also the primary reason for collapsing Western demographics. On a side note it would be interesting to see if sliding sexual norms in Western societies have led to a decline in prostitution.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Fooner
  47. nsa says:

    THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH…..everyone knows this 2000 year old aphorism. 40% of the adult US population has some kind of VD….probably closer to 90% among sexually active singles…..and maybe 150% among middle aged bar skanks (some have more than one flavor). You bang a couple of these pus pots after 10 beers, and you got something that won’t wash off no matter how many rubbers you use. But then the author is more concerned with the spiritual VD infecting most the population……..

  48. Have women ever been happy though? From my vantage point the fairer sex has always seemed consigned to a sighing dissatisfaction alternately punctuated by bouts of melancholy and fleeting fits of childish glee.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    , @utu
  49. @Jim Christian

    For some reason, reading “feminist slugs” into your comment was duly amusing.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  50. Truth says:
    @Jim Christian

    I don’t know if you realize it, Chief, but you sound more bitter than the Broads.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  51. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth

    That was a great and interesting comment. And something I never hear much about. There’s a definite creep factor for bachelors after a certain age and still womanizing.

  52. Truth says:
    @The King is a Fink

    Feminism has unwittingly taken power away from women

    Women had more power before feminism?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  53. @Joe six pack

    Motherhood calms women down. The best ones become good mothers and aunts, and go gracefully into noble matronhood. Within the family, they can socialize daughters, nieces, granddaughters and grandnieces. Women who answer a religious call can become formidable Mother Superiors. Outside the institution of the family they are generally disasters.

  54. utu says:
    @Joe six pack

    “From my vantage point the fairer sex has always seemed consigned to a sighing dissatisfaction alternately punctuated by bouts of melancholy and fleeting fits of childish glee.”

    Perhaps it was because of your presence. Do not forget about the Heisenberg effect.

  55. @Truth

    I know some women who are agree with that statement. Before feminism, women had more domestic power and associated with family/kin groups such that they would be able to get what they wanted within a framework. Most middle or upper class women had guaranteed expectations of being married, having a place to live in, or the like. Since less was expected of them, it was easier for them to gain status as well.

    Poor women didn’t have much power then, though and victims of a great number of crimes.

    But poor women don’t have much power now, either.

    Being poor sucks,

  56. Hibernian says:

    Generally like your work, Linh, but I have to challenge this:

    “…Simone Weil, was a suicide, but of course, so was Jesus.”

    You’re generally much too intelligent for this. Holding on to your convictions in the face of death is much different than jumping off a bridge. Unless we take an extremely cynical view; one which almost reduces Jesus to the level of Judas.

    • Agree: Whoever
  57. This movie really had a bad effect on impressionable teens and college age students when it was released in 1969. It personifies the evil of Hollywood…

  58. Sad content, but nicely written, Linh. Your own writing voice and style read much better than the pure stream of consciousness of your subjects.

  59. woodNfish says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    Oh, the LSM reports on it, just not in the way you think they should. Most white males use a gun to off themselves. The LSM likes to lump in those gun suicides with gun murders to pump up the numbers in their anti-gun crusade.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
  60. woodNfish says:
    @jacques sheete

    Tearing down society to “remake” it while not necessarily a bad thing in itself, has been a goal of some real crackpots and the sad thing is that they are winning.

    Yeah, because throwing out social traditions that have taken hundreds and thousands of years to create has worked so well. Dumbest thing I’ve read all day.

  61. woodNfish says:
    @Jim Christian

    You missed, “A perversion.”

  62. @Rod1963

    “Alas, B.B. is not yet a cadaver.”

    Alas? Good news, I’d have thought.

    There may be a lot of unhappy women in the world, but the suicide stats say there are even more unhappy men. But you don’t tend to find those men in bars, and women wouldn’t try to pick them up if they went there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/05/antidepressant-prescriptions-in-england-double-in-a-decade

    “The number of antidepressants given to patients in England has doubled in a decade, official figures show. In 2015 there were 61m such drugs prescribed and dispensed outside of hospitals. They are used to treat clinical depression as well as other conditions such as generalised anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder and panic attacks. The total was 31.6m more than in 2005 and up 3.9m, or 6.8% on 2014″

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
    , @markflag
  63. “Men aren’t really very strong at all…At the first sign of trouble a man falls apart. That’s why women have to work so hard to stay optimistic and upbeat, to be frugal and understanding. To not question everything” Ann Hood …’The Obituary Writer’ more

    https://robertmagill.wordpress.com/2016/09/03/humankind-the-post-bellum-species/

  64. @jacques sheete

    “For women, there is not only a dearth of straight males but a dearth of decent ones as well… L.D., this is another dynamite article. Good stuff.”

    I agree, Talha! Linh Dinh has finger upon what the U.S. “Me-Me” Culture of Spiritual Death has wrought upon relationships and marital vows. I foresee this article as part of a future L.D. book, “Obscured Americans.” .

    I know you’re an avid reader, Talha. A couple times each year I re-read Bernard Shaw’s great “Preface” to his play “Saint Joan.” There, under preface heading, The Evolutionary Appetite,” Shaw wrote, “… that as she (Joan) was a pretty girl, and had been abominably treated and finally done to death by a superstitious rabble of medieval priests hounded on by a corrupt political bishop.”

    The way you make comments on Unz Review should make millions of American women envious. But as the 1970′s song goes, “American woman… stay away from me,” the majority (unfortunately) never heard about Shaw’s “Saint Joan.” Wish you well!

    • Replies: @Talha
  65. Miro23 says:

    Pre modern-world socially arranged marriages seemed to work out better than all this.

    At least the two parties knew what to expect:

    Family support / same social class / part of a society / traditional gender roles / similar friends / likely known each other already for years / some vetting by parents / some economic security and assistance in finding work (for the husband) / parents and grandparents around for children / usually a religious ethical environment with sanctions against infidelity.

    • Replies: @Njguy73
  66. @Talha

    Talha

    I’m in “2-minute drill”l mode for pm school bus pickup, and student return. Made a mistake and addressed “Jacques Sheete” in comment # 59 and thinking it was you.

    Pardon me, Jacques? My “publish comment” trigger finger was anxious.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  67. Miro23 says:

    There might also be something in the idea that married couples keep each other’s bad habits under control.

  68. Linh Dinh says: • Website

    Hi Hibernian,

    Simone Weil rejected the self so methodically and ruthlessly, she had to erase herself.

    As for Jesus, I understand his project as proof that God himself could put up with the worst that we must go through (thanks to God), but Jesus never had to age and never had to deal with the slow, daily slogs of seeing his loved ones become wretched. A perfect suicide, Jesus lived hard, died young and left a most beautiful corpse. He was also sure his death was an illusion. We don’t.

    Speaking of Weil makes me think of my old friend, Barbara. Three decades ago, I gave her a copy of the 529-page Simone Weil Reader. I haven’t heard from Barbara in ages, but a quick google check reveals that she now runs a yoga studio and has an adopted, cross-racial son. Her last name is still intact, so it’s likely she never married.

    Linh

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Hibernian
  69. @neutral

    “What is the deal with this Linh Dinh ? Is he supposed to be some kind of Vietnamese Tocqueville or is he supposed to be an agony aunt for first worlder problems ? “

    Now, some folks say he looked like Zubin Mehta;
    Still others say, bullshit, man he’s just another greasy guy who happened to be born next to the Frozen Beef Pies at Boney’s Market.
    Still others say, pshaw, piss on you, Jack! He’s just a crazy Italian who drove a red car.
    You see, nobody knows for sure ’cause he was so-o-o-o-o-o mysterious.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    , @Karl
  70. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey JS,

    Yes, I believe that men are hurting too. I’m not (nor was I ever in the dating scene) so I don’t know how this all works other than from movies or comments from co-workers, but it seems to me that any male that comes across as serious about settling down and makes that clear from the beginning has a serious advantage due to a lack of men with that motivation. Again, I could be wrong – it’s not my forte.

    After I read these two articles, I realized that there is no way a woman can be happy with the current post-modern setup (not that it does wonders for men either). It just goes against the hard-wiring of what most females need and desire at the fundamental level:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating

    https://aeon.co/ideas/coeducation-at-university-was-and-is-no-triumph-of-feminism

    No doubt, one of the best LD has to offer. A friend read it and said it made him feel unwell just from the visceral description of despair.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  71. @Talha

    When women reject marriage and childbirth which is their natural fate in life, then of course they are miserable. Sex with a bunch of clowns does not satisfy them of course, but just adds to their misery.For who wants a whore as a wife? I hope not many men do.

  72. @neutral

    It’s interesting hearing other people’s stories, and when you no longer drink in such bars it’s the only way you get to hear ‘em.

  73. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Linh Dinh

    his death was an illusion

    This is a valid but uncommon viewpoint, regarded by most churches as heretical. But if correct it would negate the idea of suicide in any sense, no?

    left a most beautiful corpse

    I understand you’re quoting, but there seems to be a lot of controversy on this point …

  74. @Diversity Heretic

    You are darn right on that one! Even those miserable wretches when they see you in the malls, or parks with your wife and children, look at you with wicked eyes full of wrath and envy. They have no one to blame but themselves for believing in the evil and wicked lie of feminism. Whoring around does not bring them but, loneliness and damnation.

  75. imbroglio says:

    Some of these women should come here to P.C.ville where they’d find decent men who are going begging because so many of the women here look down on marriage while many of those who don’t will only consider exceptional men even if the women themselves are quite ordinary. Of course, if only the best is good enough — best in image and appearance — then these ladies would likely be doomed regardless of where they were.

  76. My wife, son and I took a nice leisurely drive through Amish country this past Sunday.

    Though everything was closed [ Honoring God on the sabbath is healthy and honorable in countless ways], we observed families returning from church with their jaunty horses and buggy carriages.

    The young woman in their modest dresses- and the young men who will court them- will most likely make a believers decision to submit to Jesus Christ, and to base their future families stake on the literal revelation of the Bible and its requirements.

    When all is said a done, Jesus maintained that His yoke was light and easy- compared to that fox Herod, or whoever is the current “benefactor”.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @NoseytheDuke
  77. iffen says:
    @Talha

    it seems to me that any male that comes across as serious about settling down and makes that clear from the beginning has a serious advantage due to a lack of men with that motivation.

    This is true. The problem is that there are many men who fit, or could fit, this description, but in our economy they do not have the education or training to enable family formation. Big numbers of them, Talha, this is why it’s falling apart.

    • Replies: @Talha
  78. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Hi Anonymous Nephew,

    Yes, of course it’s great news that she’s alive, and I made sure to convey my relief and happiness in my return text.

    With “alas,” I’m playing off the previous paragraph to mean that she’s not loved, as well as saying suicide still hangs over her, but I think I got way too cute here. Upon rereading, it does sound rather sinister. Thanks for raising the red flag.

    Linh

  79. sturbain says:

    Others had said it but, your best piece ever sir. I was moved almost to tears. What have we done to ourselves? Can we recover?

    I thank God for my wife of 25 years and my children. And a set of values that inspired us to treasure family. I know my wife and I have passed those values down to our children. Best thing I’ve ever done in life.

  80. @Authenticjazzman

    Karl Marx, the most evil MF to ever have set foot upon this insane planet.

    For sure. However, his ideas spawned several generations of utter degenerates who were even worse and worse yet, Wall Street funded a lot of them.

    Hard as it is to believe, we still have people today who claim to admire him and various of his disciples. But then we also have whole passels of knuckleheads who glorify the Wall Street credo as well.

    No wonder Gawd sent the flood and h(is)(er) Son to fix the situation. No wonder, too that even (s)he failed. Maybe (s)he’ll get it right on the third try, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

    I’m happy that the various commie factions loathed each other to the point of trying to wipe each other off the map. If only Wall Street would do the same, we all might obtain a few moments of sanity and peace. I’m not Mr. Sanguine on that either.

    BTW, for some entertaining reading, Lucian’s “Dialogues of the Gods” is pretty funny stuff. Even they had “love” troubles galore; Zeus in particular.

    Here’s one of many such tales.

    5 (I). PROMETHEUS AND ZEUS
    PROMETHEUS
    Release me, Zeus; I have suffered enough.
    ZEUS
    Release you? you? Why, by rights your irons should be heavier, you should have the whole weight of Caucasus upon you, and instead of one, a dozen vultures, not just pecking at your liver, but scratching out your eyes. You made these abominable human creatures to vex us, you stole our fire, you invented women. I need not remind you how you overreached me about the meat-offerings; my portion, bones disguised in fat: yours, all the good.

    http://www.theoi.com/Text/LucianDialoguesGods1.html#5

  81. epnngg says: • Website

    Truly a dark and depressing society we have become as Americans!
    Narcissism abounds as truth and reality have faded into a gray mist of
    hopelessness.

    Relativism, self-absorption, and a dispossessed place in life are generally the
    rule in so many tragic lives of men, women, and children today. The anchors of
    loving, caring, families and involved communities; that bring hope, fulfillment, and
    giving sacrifice are all but gone from the American landscape. We have truly become
    a nation of drug induced zombies. Is it any wonder that tyranny has replaced liberty and
    our rulers prey on the multitudes of the weak and helpless among us!

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  82. bb753 says:

    Linh Dinh, I like your stuff, but please stop pedestalizing sluts. Don´t waste your time and money with them.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Truth
    , @Njguy73
  83. Do women really have it so bad?

    As far as I know, the rate of suicide for men is much higher than that for women.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  84. ChrisZ says:

    The reference to McGlinchy’s in Philly attracted me to this piece; but I became swept up in the excellence of the storytelling and writing. The sentiment in the penultimate paragraph is genuine poetry. Thanks for writing this, Linh.

    As the comments attest, the stories you tell could be multiplied infinitely. The magnitude of willing (perhaps better to say “willful?) unhappiness in our country is so great that it does take on an aspect of having been planned from the start by malign cultural forces.

    To me, these cultural forces seem to be leading society in the direction of polygamy. On the one hand, we have a large population of dissatisfied women who are ill-suited for companionate marriage, but who crave having a child, and would welcome the stability and security of being taken care of by a man, even at the cost of sharing him with others (this is in fact the situation they find themselves in now, from which the legal commitment of polygamy would be a step up).

    On the other hand, we have a situation where the appetites of young men are being trained away from the one-man/one-woman model, and indeed encouraged to look beyond women for satisfaction, with the legitimation of homosexuality and the ubiquity of porn (not to mention emerging virtual experiences). These practices would serve to pacify young male sexual appetite (which when frustrated is a threat to social order) and give license to a small elite of wealthy males to take up multiple spouses.

    As for how this might all come about, I keep thinking about the scenario depicted in Michel Houellebecq’s novel “Submission.

    • Replies: @Jon Halpenny
  85. Where have all the good men gone?

    They’re back in your 20s, where you left them.

    I know a parade of women in their late 30s and beyond who are shocked to discover that they’ve reached the point where men are no longer willing to walk through a burning house to bring them a glass of water. A friend lamented that she’d become “invisible to men” after 38. She was upfront about it because I’d been warning her it would happen for 10 years – she thought she’d have her looks “into her fifties” (apparently expecting to be the first woman to do so).

    As was written on Chateau Heartiste once,

    During a Roman Triumph it was traditional for a slave to ride with the victor and whisper to him reminders of how fleeting is glory and how short is life. In Latin this was called “memento mori”.

    I propose that we resurrect the memento mori for the hot young ladies in our society. A coming-out parade, of sorts, where the ladies will ride in cars accompanied by an old woman who will whisper to them things like, “By 40 you will be invisible to men” and “You’ll be over 40 for more than half your life” and “At 55 the only things that will bring you joy are your children and grandchildren; not your career, not your travels, nor your accomplishments.”

    • Replies: @Sam J.
  86. epnngg says: • Website

    We have become a detached, narcissistic, people. Truth has become relative and the lives of so many men, women, and children live a disconnected, individualistic existence devoid of all hope.

    It seems there is a complete disconnect for so many from a distinct place, loving family, and hopeful traditions. Our culture has fragmented into many lonely and isolated parts drifting in a self-deluded darkness of hopelessness. Gone are the committed, loving families that worked together, shared tragedy and joy together, and served their communities together.

    The terrible fruits of total self-absorption are manifesting themselves today in so many evil ways. To escape the futility and meaninglessness of their lives, so many people are turning their lives over to a slow suicide of drugs, alcohol, and a complete dependence on a prying, tyrannical government that only adds to their hopeless demise.

  87. Skeptikal says:

    God, how depressing.
    And I don’t mean the content or the stories.
    I mean the author herself.
    And not a sign of remorse at having blown of the Indian woman, who so *obviously* was trying to connect and needed to do so.
    Not a tear shed at ignoring this woman’s pleas for contact, no compassion whatsoever.
    The poor thing was just the author’s first stat and maybe helped her get her piece off the ground.
    Is the author clueless as to how shallow she sounds?

    • Replies: @Jeff
    , @FooBakka
  88. Hibernian says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Linh,

    I take it that you’re an atheist or at least an agnostic. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  89. Skeptikal says:
    @Buck Turgidson

    ” They are so useless, they want to be men but they can’t shingle a roof or unclog a toilet or catch a varmint or go up on a roof and clear the snow, or mine, or clean out a sewer system, or even pound a friggin nail.”

    Well, this describes some married women I know. The unmarried ones are obliged to do for themselves, drive their own nails and shovel their own driveway, if they have one. It is astounding to me how badly some wives treat their husbands–like servants. Then dump on them, constantly correct them, actually laugh at them in social situations. Show no appreciation of the fact their husbands have allowed them to have a much high standard of living than the unmarried. None of this would I ever dream of doing. Not to “catch” a man, but because it is so unappealing. But many married women are also obtuse and somehow think they are invisible when they behave like nags and exchange knowing looks and try to get one to join them in their dumping on their hubbies. Ugh.

    Plenty of reason to prefer being single than unhappily married. Apparently no unhappy housewives or husbands got the author’s attention. I guess because he was hanging out in bars and at his computer.

  90. iffen says:
    @bb753

    please stop pedestalizing sluts. Don´t waste your time and money with them.

    Sluts need love, too.

    I am not sure how someone can read this piece and claim that they like it without understanding anything that was written.

  91. Jeff says:
    @Skeptikal

    Litch – the author is a guy. I’m curious why you came to the conclusion that Linh is female – care to explain?

  92. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    Hi Hibernian,

    Agnostic is a reasonable tag. I was raised very Catholic. Back in Saigon, my paternal grandma went to church every day, and was the first outside the church door before it even opened. When she was too old to walk to church, my cousin hired a pedicab to wait outside each morning for her. She only stopped when she could no longer get out of bed. My grandma prayed all day long.

    As a child, I went to church with her once and found myself moving on my knees the length of a church just so I could kiss the feet of a Jesus statue. I went to a Catholic school in Vietnam.

    My paternal family is from Nam Dinh, the most heavily Catholic province in Vietnam. If you google “Nam Dinh churches,” you can see some very impressive ones, especially when you consider that they were built by very poor peasants.

    My notion of marriage and the family is certainly derived from Catholicism.

    Linh

    • Replies: @Karl
  93. FooBakka says:
    @Skeptikal

    You don’t know what their relationship was like – and if you actually tried to comprehend the text, you’d notice that Mr. Dinh’s friendship was with her husband, not her.

    • Replies: @FooBakka
    , @Skeptikal
  94. FooBakka says:
    @FooBakka

    … and by husband I mean baby father.

  95. jacob says:

    @skeptical:

    “..It is astounding to me how badly some wives treat their husbands–like servants. Then dump on them, constantly correct them, actually laugh at them in social situations. Show no appreciation of the fact their husbands have allowed them to have a much high standard of living than the unmarried….But many married women are also obtuse and somehow think they are invisible when they behave like nags and exchange knowing looks and try to get one to join them in their dumping on their hubbies…”

    Perfect explanation for why I got a divorce. Being treated like a deficient domestic appliance by a narcissistic woman with swivel hips and stringy hair gets old awfully fast. All women have to do to keep a man happy is to throw him some sex once in a while, stop the nagging, and make an honest effort at keeping their figures. Men like to take care of women, but only if they appreciate it and respect us in return. Women are pretty savvy about relationships; wonder why they don’t get that?

  96. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Hey iffen,

    I agree, economy makes it tougher – no doubt. And we really don’t know if that’ll get better any time soon. But there is something more basic afoot. People in dirt-poor countries get married all the time. The guy might have one cow and a goat to his name, but there he is, wife and kids in tow. They marry during famines, they marry while recovering from cataclysmic events. One of my teachers recently returned from studying in Bangladesh. His teacher lived in a remote village, in a house with a ceiling slightly higher than his head and made of bricks that weren’t properly fixed together with mortar…but, these people get married. And many are actually happy (they might be hungry for three quarters of the day), but many are actually content with their little ‘castle’. If you’ve ever traveled through parts of the third world, you’ll know what I mean.

    Didn’t they still get married and have kids during the Great Depression?

    I guess what I’m getting at is; one can’t control the economy (and yes, the elite couldn’t care less about these people and probably hope they die off quicker), but one can control one’s own attitude and approach. You only get one chance at this; should someone let life pass them by because they were born in an unfortunate era or circumstance?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @DC9-32
    , @Sam Shama
  97. Talha says:
    @Stonehands

    Hey Stonehands,

    Love the Amish; they may not have much, but they seem to be very content people and that comes from having expansive hearts.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Karl
  98. @ChrisZ

    “To me, these cultural forces seem to be leading society in the direction of polygamy”

    True, I think. But arguably polygamy is the default setting of relations between the sexes anyway. Monogamy enforced by Christianity may be an anomalous phenomenon.

  99. Talha says:
    @Chuck Orloski

    Hey Chuck,

    I found the preface and will read it – looks very interesting.

    should make millions of American women envious

    Just a note Chuck, I know my name throws people off (the name is for males, but is on the female form) – but I am quite male – last time I checked anyway. :)

    But I did marry an American woman – a Berkeley girl at that! Strange – I know, but she kicked that life to the side during her college days.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Chuck Orloski
  100. @Daniel Chieh

    For some reason, reading “feminist slugs” into your comment was duly amusing.

    Actually, the word is “slags”. Waste material. In this case, modern feminists. There are uses for them, but you have to think long and hard before you do.

    I’m here to amuse YOU? I make youse laugh?

  101. third world women are unhappy, too. Yes they have their marriage and children, but they think about financial problems, health problems, problems with their children all day long. Who is happy anyway?

  102. Truth says:
    @bb753

    Let’s say a woman is 35 years old; what are the parameters of her being a “slut” in your opinion? Is it a raw number of bed partners, and if so, what is the number?

    Let’s come up with a comprehensive and verifiable definition of the term “slut” because at 50, I’m still not sure what it means.

  103. Truth says:

    BTW, I read a statistic this week that said that %42 percent of all unmarried thirty year olds in Japan are virgins. If you are hand-wringing over “the degradation of American society” let that sink in.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @RadicalCenter
  104. old okie says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    Seems Feminism liberated men not women – the irony

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  105. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Karaoke at the Golden Cicada, Jersey City”

    That photo above….

    Is that a woman with a Groucho Marx glasses and mustache?

  106. Talha says:
    @Jon Halpenny

    Hey JH,

    There was a study done in the late 1990′s. They made an anthropological breakdown (from 1998) of over 1250 distinct cultures on our planet (section ’9: Marital Composition’). Strictly monogamous cultures are in the minority (less than 15-%) – the rest of the world is occasionally or frequently polygamous.

    http://eclectic.ss.uci.edu/~drwhite/worldcul/Codebook4EthnoAtlas.pdf

    Such is life.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  107. Art says:

    Do each of us have a finite amount of emotional intimacy within us – and when we use it up – do we no longer have it to help us bind ourselves to others? Doesn’t shared intimacy help and allow people to get past everyday difficulties? Isn’t shared sexual intimacy the grand bargain of love between men and women?

    What is more intimate then sex – how many different people can we have sex with and still feel the ultimate beneficial intimate closeness that binds us to each other? Losing a love hurts. Isn’t it human to back off more with each successive loss of love? Does each successive encounter diminish our capacity to be intimate? Do we have less to give with each successive encounter?

    Is this not most important to women – is not the open intimacy to their bodies and mind, their ultimate exchange and gift in love?

    This is a very sad article – perhaps free love is not so free – perhaps there is a cost with each encounter?

    If we cannot attain intimacy with others – is it time to die?

    Peace — Art

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    , @Talha
  108. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth

    That’s not a bad thing necessarily.

    Ideally, people shouldn’t throw their virginity on some punk or floozy.

    It should be lost with right lover/spouse.

    It used to the norm that virginity was prized and highly regarded as something precious. It was something you guarded and kept, especially if you were a woman, and finally offered to the one you truly loved.

    But then, virginity came to be seen as something like a disease, a plague. It had to be gotten rid of as fast as possible. It was like the cooties.
    So, we have teens eager to lose it as fast as possible with someone they don’t even like.
    So, some teen guy will roll in the hay with some fat ho’ and say “Hey guys, I lost my virginity.” Or the teen girl will lose it with some half-wit moron and brag to her friend that she lost it.

    How did this happen? How did we go from a society that prized virginity as something precious that should offered to the one you love to a society that regards virginity as social disease, something one should be ashamed of?
    Pop Culture?

    Now, I do understand the Japan Case is somewhat strange because the high rate of virginity among men is probably not due to morals or social ideals. After all, Japanese culture is pretty porny and sexually crude, in some ways more than in America.

    It may be due to (1) timidity among men as Japanese evolved as servile face (2) porn that allow men to indulge in artificiality (3) rise of individualism and more female independence, which means men have to make more effort to gain sexual attention, something Japanese men are unfit for personality-wise (4) globalization that allows Japanese women to seek out superior non-Japanese men who are taller and bigger-pudded AND decline of Japanese male confidence.

    Still, for most of human history — at least outside Negro-verse of wild bunner behavior in Africa and America — , the ideal was to hold virginity as something special to finally offer to the one you love.

    Take the concept of ‘deflowering’. So, the virginal poon was like a pretty flower and it was to be offered for deflowering only to the worthy gardener. But now the only concept is ‘plowing’. A guy will say he will meet some ho’ and ‘plow’ her fat arse.

    I compare the generation of my friends’ parents and my friends, and there is no comparison. Whether Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, Italian, Asian, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever, the parents all got married, raised families, and grew up. But so many of my friends are immature infantile degenerate tards forever.
    Also, among my parents generation, it was often the case that their husbands were the first and only man the mothers did it with. There was special bonding and loyalty. But among the daughters, I see a lot of whore behavior. And some of them got ugly tattoos, and they dress like hoors. Now, what kind of mothers will they be to their kids? It will be like kids growing up with prostitute moms. Most of my friends had moms whom they respected. They saw their moms as having been respectable women before they met their hubbies and had kids. But when their daughters become moms, their kids will grow up seeing their tattoo mom-whores as someone who banged tons of guys before they finally settled down with some husband who might not even stick around.

    It’s all shudder-worthy. What degeneration of society. It’s like the world is becoming Neglobalized.

    • Troll: landlubber
  109. Ganderson says:
    @Lovernios X

    You can never really tell about a guy like that, whether he’s really a nice person, or if he just smiles a lot: Or if he has a son named Pinocchio or what?

  110. Skeptikal says:
    @FooBakka

    “If you tried to comprehend the text . . .’

    I don’t claim to know what their relationshiop was like. But you seem to claim that they didn’t have a relationship, so where is the logic?
    Obviously they had a relationship because they were exchanging emails, emails that meant a lot to Reetika. Perhaps FooBakka is the one to reread and comprehend.
    Reetika says specifically Can we speak? She gives her number. She thanks Linh for the messages. If Linh is a friend of Yusef’s, he must know that Reetika and Jehan are on their own in Trenton. Reetika again attempts to contact Linh in May.
    Then, Linh writes, cluelessly,
    ” During her final months, she reached out to many people. Surely someone could have said something to save the 41-year-old woman and her baby?”
    Yeah, surely *someone*, as long as it’s not *me*.
    Come on. There is nothing whatsoever out of whack with my comment.

    As for Linh’s gender, or identity, I see nothing that indicates that the writer is male. Where is that?
    To me it looks like a woman hanging out with other women. Why isn’t Linh chewing the fat with other guys?
    But, actually, what does strongly suggest that the writer is male is his utter lack of empathy for this woman and her child, and his apparently cluelessness as to how shallow this narrative makes him look.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  111. BB753 says:
    @Truth

    I know a slut when I see one.

  112. Max Payne says:

    I can’t understand the suicide thing. Sure we all go through dark periods and perhaps I’m not the best judge (having not been sober for the past 15 odd years of my life) but why kill yourself when you can make other people’s lives miserable? But I guess it’s better than going on a shooting spree or blowing yourself up in a supermarket.

    The problem with women unable to find men is that they are insatiable in general. We all know the joke of the women riding the elevator, a little reminder:

    [MORE]

    A group of women are riding an elevator and hit the first floor, the elevator speaker declares “charming and intelligent men are on this floor”. The women continue up to the second floor and the speaker blares out “charming, intelligent and rich men are on this floor”. The women turn giddy and want to see what the next level offers. They hit floor 3 and the speaker proclaims “Charming, intelligent, rich AND handsome men are on this floor”. The women, now curious, continue to the fourth floor for the speaker only to spout “This floor is just to prove you can’t satisfy women”.

    And thus why most guys treat women like….quaint acquaintances until they get bored of them. And some women are okay accepting that type of behavior because of either low self-esteem, not knowing what they want (which is a curse 99.98382668% women suffer) or they’re just bat-shit crazy.

    I’m also astounded how many women are surprised guys don’t want to marry the town bicycle. I mean… if you basically banged every branch down as you fell off the whore-tree chances are you aren’t going to find a “decent” man who isn’t pussy desperate (like a 40 year old virgin).

    Like the saying goes, if you have a key that can open any lock, that’s a great key. If you are a lock in which any key can open … well that’s a crappy lock.

    But men suffer from their own curse. A lot of rich, handsome, intelligent guys end up marrying (and sticking around) with fat ugly Giggerota like women only because it’s their first taste of pussy (or a woman willing to do things he assumes most women won’t do). There are way too many beta males out there that some women believe all men will humor their bullshit and wait on them to grow up.

    As I understand it, as a man my value appreciates the older I get. I become wiser, have more money/assets, even get a bit more handsome as age sometimes give men a hardened look. Women on the other hand: as time goes by their beauty decreases, their biological clock for baby-making dwindles, and generally speaking asides from the Western walls of civilization women in vast portions of the world do not hold the same influence as men and thus their range is limited. And yet the expect to be treated like the Virgin Mary.

    I’m just glad my parents were old school. My mother was 21 when she married my 29 year old father. 32 years of marriage and 2 kids with no issues. Young parents can keep up with their hyperactive children (a 34 year old man and 26 year old woman can easily handle a 5 year old and his 1 year old brother) but at 45 you’re going to be overwhelmed.

  113. @Truth

    I don’t know if you realize it, Chief, but you sound more bitter than the Broads.

    Heh, you should see these broads if you think I’m bitter. All this is the same as when I was back in the DC region, Northern Virginia, except the women are better looking here in Boston. But this is the Boston region, every one of these women, their walls are papered with Diploma-Mill printouts from B.U. or UMass, like that. Chicks from Harvard don’t trouble themselves with a rogue like me. Like back in DC, these girls here don’t know shit about anything really, they’ve spent their lives in cubicles, a few of em made it to an office, none on the corner. Publishing, education admin, invented jobs for dopey broads. Liberal as Hillary every one of them, I don’t get along with em for long, nor they me, frankly. Hey, that’s the pickings around here, whaddya gonna do?

    I’d like to respect them in the morning, I really would. Settle in with one for awhile, but they’re impossible. So, I have a Brazilian chick that runs her sister’s books comes up for weekends every now and then and I fill in with the local talent during the week. Meanwhile, to them, I’m a fun date on the motorcycles, for cocktails and dinner and a roll in the hay, but they ain’t marrying me and I suppose, I ain’t marrying them. Never shopped rings with em, that’s for sure.

    Bitter? Nah, a little disappointed at the state of things, but then, I suppose I cope rather well with the situation. After all, if I was married I’d be cut out of the variety and the hunt. Variety is good too.

    Merry Christmas.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @RadicalCenter
  114. Njguy73 says:
    @bb753

    Did Linh Dinh ever state that he spends money on the women he profiles?

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    , @BB753
  115. iffen says:
    @Talha

    People in dirt-poor countries get married all the time.

    Apples and oranges, Talha, all boats are supposed to rise together. People adjust reasonably well to some having bigger boats, not so much to small boats sinking while big boats are rising higher and higher.

    one can’t control the economy

    Yes one can absolutely control the economy. The elites do it every day. And when you control it in a manner where some people don’t have an economic chance, it is willful, intentional neglect and indifference to human suffering.

    one can control one’s own attitude and approach

    You know as well as I that our attitudes and personality are not under our control.
    We have to unbalance the scales so that the less able have a chance to make it.

    Nice of you to give a shout-out to Homer.

    • Replies: @Talha
  116. Njguy73 says:
    @Miro23

    And the potential for negative sanctions.

    Since everyone knows each other in these situations, everyone knows they better watch their asses.

    If you start dating a woman and you’re told up front, “You make her sad, her brother will demand satisfaction and request that you meet him on the field of honor at dawn,” you’ll be nice or else.

  117. @Greg S.

    Michael Crichton wrote an excellent summary of the modern woman in his non-fiction book Travels, the chapter is called They and is well worth reading.

  118. Njguy73 says:
    @Max Payne

    “If Americans can be divorced for ‘incompatibility of temper’, I cannot conceive why they are not all divorced. I have known many happy marriages, but never a compatible one. The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. For a man and a woman, as such, are incompatible.” – G.K. Chesterton

  119. @Stonehands

    Isn’t the Sabbath a Saturday? Sabbado is Saturday in espanol?

    Sunday is of course the day that modern “Christians” unknowingly pay homage to Sol Invictus.

    I do agree that the Amish appear to be a quite contented people, but who really knows?

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Stonehands
  120. @Truth

    First off, only women can be sluts.

  121. iffen says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    I do agree that the Amish appear to be a quite contented people

    The un-contented leave. That’s how it works. Works reasonably well, too.

  122. @woodNfish

    Yep, a standard TOP MEN! argument: “It wasn’t a shitty idea, we just had the wrong people in charge!”

    “Society” isn’t a strip mall you can tear down and turn into condos. Everyone has to still live in it while it’s being “torn down” (destroyed) and somehow survive until it gets “rebuilt” (how exactly?). How can this seem a reasonable idea?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  123. @Njguy73

    Did Linh Dinh ever state that he spends money on the women he profiles?

    Only the ones Linh sleeps with.

  124. @Jon Halpenny

    “Do women really have it so bad? As far as I know, the rate of suicide for men is much higher than that for women”

    They have it made, women today. If a chick is good looking, she’s royalty, if she doesn’t fuck up.

    • Replies: @CrunchybutRealistCon
  125. @Talha

    “I am quite male.”

    Sorry Talha…, was an innocent mistake. I’d like to blame the sort of genderless names that appear here, but…

    Oh well, I know you will appreciate B. Shaw’s “Preface” to Saint Joan, who was not a Berkeley girl! Thank you.

  126. I found this piece uninteresting and did not finish reading it. Later, finding so many positive comments I went back and slogged through it. This is the bit that stood out for me:

    In 2014, there were 41,143 American suicides, as compared to 16,108 murders. We hate ourselves and each other more than the citizens of just about any other First World nation. We are also the champs of drug taking and porn watching.

    It’s called decadence. I could talk about my adolescence before the advent of “the pill”. Or about American men being raised almost exclusively by women. Or the mistakes of feminism. Or my own two failed marriages. But nothing I can say will change the fact that the society I was born into is dying. At 72 I try to be kind and helpful to the people I meet in daily life. Paul McCartney wrote – ” In the end the love you take is equal to the love you make”.

  127. @NoseytheDuke

    Sunday is of course the day that modern “Christians” unknowingly pay homage to Sol Invictus.

    Aww…

    I thought everyone knew Christ conquered the “invincible sun” when He rose from the dead…

    Hallelujah!

  128. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Civilization is turning into crap because the connective links have been lost.

    It’s like cells. Why are we different from single-cell organisms? A single cell organism like an amoeba lives only for itself.

    In contrast, all the cells in the body must coordinate together. No cell in the human body can exist or live alone. It only has meaning in relation to all the other cells in the body. A single brain cell is nothing. It only has meaning in relation to other brain cells, and the cells in the brains have meaning in relation to cells in the heart, cells in the lungs, cells in the bloodstream.

    Civilization is like that. Each person has meaning in relation to larger society. Without such link, his life has no larger purpose.
    What is the difference between a thug/criminal and a soldier? Both commit acts of violence. The difference is the thug uses violence only for self-gain. He is like a lone animal that attacks only to serve itself. In contrast, a soldier fights for the good of the team, the army, the society, nation. Ideally, he fights for a just cause or for the survival of the community.
    It’s like the Mifune character in SEVEN SAMURAI gains larger meaning by using his fighting skills to defend a village. He could have become a petty thief serving himself, but he chose to fight and die for something bigger.
    And the thief in KAGEMUSHA gains meaning through attachment to the Clan. Prior to that, he was just some lone thief with nothing to live for or die for except his own petty interests.
    It’s like the outlaws in THE WILD BUNCH gain a bit of redemption when they find something to die for. Prior to that, they’d just been killers and thieves.

    So, the difference between thug violence and soldier/policeman violence is the thug only thinks of himself whereas the solider or police officer thinks of the larger community and higher ideals and/or just cause.

    Unlike animals that live for brute survival and narrow interest, humans have developed complex morality, values, and organizations. Being part of something bigger, our lives gain meaning in terms of morals, values, responsibilities, duties, legacy, and posterity. Civilization is about posterity, whore culture is about posterior.

    What goes for violence also goes for sex. Sex is an animal and natural thing. But humans are more than animals. Non-black races are more than savages. So, they have found deeper meaning in sex. Animals don’t know sex leads to new life. They just go into heat and hump one another. Negroes know sex leads to new life, but Negro men don’t want to take care of their kids. They just wanna go around and bang as many ho’s as possible and leave it to OTHERS to take raise their kids. (And Cuck Christians, in serving this role, encourage more blacks to act nasty and bad.)

    But the civilized races don’t see sex as mere animal horniness or fun. They see it as a natural drive/process that leads to new life and all the attendant blessings and responsibilities. Also, sex is seen as part of something bigger: search for love, courtship, marriage, new life, parenting, acculturation, and etc. So, sex isn’t just for sex but part of something broader, deeper, and more meaningful. Without such mindset, civilization is impossible. Civilization isn’t about individuals indulging independent of larger needs of society. It’s about building links between various facets of life and society to construct and preserve a system of meaning, worth, and higher values. Society links a warrior’s violence with duty, cause, heroism, and sacrifice. Civilization links sexual desire with love, marriage, parenting, children, and posterity. When such links are cut off, warriors are reduced to thugs and mercenaries. And sexual desire just turns animal and crude. It is just for the pleasure of the moment.

    It is all the more dangerous today because the hubris of animal drives are no longer checked by nemesis of consequences. By the ruthless laws of nature, a woman who fools around too much will become pregnant or become diseased(and die). Being pregnant, she will have to sober up and take care of the kid. But in modern society, a woman can rely on artificial means of the Pill, condoms, and abortion to be free of the consequences of her behavior. So, she can act wild and excessive without the natural check on her wildness. If she gets a disease, she can be treated with antibiotics. And even if she does decide to have the kid, the state will pay for child care and provide her with everything. So, female behavior can get totally out of control, and it’s gone totally nuts in the black community esp where black mothers raise their kids to twerk. Advanced technology enable people to act even wilder and more savage than they would in the jungle wild. And this craziness is spreading to white and Asian communities too.

    It should be no surprise that homomania made huge gains in recent times. It is due to the de-linking of the natural drives, morality, culture, and higher themes of society. There was a time when marriage linked nature, morality, culture, family, spirituality, and children. But as the links have been cut, there is only the hedonism of the individual. So, everything is judged according to what kind of pleasure it brings to the Individual cut off and de-linked from rest of society. So, if vain homo individuals will be happy with ‘marriage’, then they must be allowed to ‘marry’ too.
    This is what happens when ‘marriage’ is de-linked from nature, morality, & culture and seen merely as a jolly for individuals in search of their hedonistic ‘happiness’.

    And women have been raised to think this way. They no longer see sexual desire as a link in the chain of love, courtship, marriage, family, parenting, children, and posterity. It’s just a Lena-Dunham thing where it’s just about momentary orgasms, howling like morons at nightclubs, dancing by sticking their asses to be rubbed by male groins in public, and etc. And there is no shame… or shame has been repressed as Mammon says nothing is more shameful than to feel shame about debauchery.
    Shame the shame and de-link people from larger themes and meanings of society. Just tell them that what matters most is the individual’s pleasure of the moment.

    But of course, moments pass, and people grow old. And when all their moments were lived only for the moment, they have nothing to call their own.

    Moments are like bricks. If you can see the bigger picture, you stack each moment like a brick in the building of a house. Over time, all those moments are linked into a house.
    But if you see each brick as just something to toss into the air for the fun of it, all those bricks are strewn and lost, and there is no house at the end.

    The de-linking of natural drives from culture, meaning, morality, and posterity will be the undoing of civilization.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
    • Troll: landlubber
  129. @Talha

    They made an anthropological breakdown (from 1998) of over 1250 distinct cultures on our planet (section ’9: Marital Composition’). Strictly monogamous cultures are in the minority (less than 15-%) – the rest of the world is occasionally or frequently polygamous.

    Agreed. True enough. What are the modern-day accomplishments of those cultures? Where you have polygamy, 10-15% of the males are mating with ALL the females, leaving 85-90% with nothing to do but make war, not love. Can’t do much with an environment like that.Wasn’t that part of the bargain with modern man, say, since the industrial revolution began? That for every ugly man, an ugly woman and hence, someone to work for, someone to defend, someone with whom to have ugly children?

    Can’t have anything in a society where it’s a fight to the death to get pussy. We see those places on the continent of Africa, in the Middle East. China has its “empty branches”, that is, perpetually-single generations of men as a result of Chinese parents drowning the female children and trying for yet another son. Little thought was given to the fact of 150:100 man:woman ratios. Empty branches cause trouble if you don’t vacuum them up into industry and the military where even now, they worry about the disgruntlement of so many men with no chance to marry or carry progeny forward. What after all, are they defending? Someone else’s apple pie, the rich guys’.

  130. @Jim Christian

    They have it made, women today. If a chick is good looking, she’s royalty, if she doesn’t fuck up.

    Agreed. The obesity crisis (& piercing, tattoo crises) has skewed the dating market wildly in favor of medium to slim regular women. Even average looking non-overweight women have many options. Their dilemma may actually be that they have so many options, they keep deferring on marriage, looking to trade up. Then they hit 32, and their options start thinning out, panic sets in, but they are torn w/ indecision between a yearn for the alpha they had briefly years ago, vs settling for the boring avg dude.

  131. @Truth

    what are the parameters of her being a “slut” in your opinion? Is it a raw number of bed partners, and if so, what is the number?

    It’s like obscenity in art, Truth: I know it when I see it. The two broads in the picture? Total sluts, complete with slutty-eyed, Thousand Cock-Stare. A little obese, they drink too much and forget much of what they’ve done when they drink. Just as well. Now, I’m not judging, of course, but seriously, do you want to risk making a baby with 30+ year old drunk women that likely have been on hormonal birth control for 20 years? A chick with a lot of man-tracks on her? A couple of abortions on her ticket? Std’s known and unknown? Toxic, hostile womb isn’t conducive to healthy children.

    Because THIS is why men don’t want them after their thirties because we KNOW what they are. All we’re arguing after that is price of admission. You’d think their “jobs” were so noble, like they were curing cancer and so they didn’t marry, right? Wrong. Cubicle jobs, working for companies owned by men, all so they could say they didn’t want to marry and be a slave to a man. And children. And a home.

    They’re perfect, you know, these women in their thirties. Not only are you supposed to forgive their destruction, you’re supposed to be happy about it, commit to it, celebrate it. And when we don’t? Heh..

    • Replies: @Truth
  132. ChrisZ says:
    @Jon Halpenny

    Jon (and Talha too): I’m persuaded that polygamy may in some sense be the more “natural” or spontaneous ordering of male-female relations: the default, as you say, for the human species. But there seems to be some connection between monogamy and civilization, or at least with human advancement. And there’s a profound connection between monogamy and political freedom. The society that unravels the former is, blindly or conspiratorially, unraveling the latter.

    Steve Sailer wrote a great article in the 1990s which breaks out the benefits (and beneficiaries) of monogamy and polygamy as social strategies.

    Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

  133. @Jim Christian

    For most. The two I’ve been a long time regular client of are pretty good friends. We hang out and go out for fun.

  134. Greg S. says:
    @Buck Turgidson

    Excellent comment yourself, and all true. It’s not that women are inferior, they are simply different. Imagine if the social engineering was reversed: instead of goading women into high tech companies, we were goading men into nursing and day care. Men would be dropping babies on the floor and the women there would be wondering what all these meatheads were doing there.

    • Replies: @Buck Turgidson
  135. DC9-32 says:
    @Talha

    Sounds like a straightforward consequence of R/K theory. Although it would be interesting to learn more about what effects the Depression had.

  136. Miro23 says:
    @Anon

    Unlike animals that live for brute survival and narrow interest, humans have developed complex morality, values, and organizations. Being part of something bigger, our lives gain meaning in terms of morals, values, responsibilities, duties, legacy, and posterity.

    Good comment/essay but many animal groups have evolved so that “brute survival” and “narrow interest” are best served by working in a community. Cooperation in a hunting wolf pack serves the survival and self interest of each individual wolf better than trying to pull down big game alone (can’t do it).

    In reality the “lone wolf” will have no mate, and a life of hunting for scraps. And it’s always a male. The bitches also have their ranks but in a world of high fatalities they are too important to exclude.

  137. @Greg S.

    Yes, you are right on all counts. Men do some things well, and women do some things well. I know many very competent women doing woman-like things. The problems arise when they and feminists go off their rockers and into their rage and want to displace and destroy men. They should stay out of men’s work, and vice versa. Women i’ve worked with who keep the books, go over the contract details, do payroll — excellent. My mom used to work for a great boss who was a great entrepreneur and business/construction guy and made a ton of $$. He was a good people person and good at building / fixing stuff, he was the one on the bucket truck when it was raining and 40 — but he could not add or keep the books or organize the office and was a slob. Mom had all this crap together, cut the checks, balanced the books for the first time in his business, all the pens and pencils and books and notepads and documents had their assigned places, she cleaned up the place, knew how to market the business, made the office inviting and cheerful instead of a pig sty, they were a good team. The problems I’ve seen is when women decide they are going to move into analytical and management-type positions (esp sciences, engineering, policy). Women in these settings are out of their depth and it does not work. The women in these areas are shallow, arrogant, entitled, loud-mouthed, bad in meetings, bad listeners, impatient, touchy, incompetent — most are not cut out for that work. They complain all the time, they do crappy work, they can’t work with others, everything is someone else’s fault, they never are wrong. Like you say, this would be like insisting that men do wallpapering work and color selection and choose the right style and color of draperies and decide what kind of cookware is the best, and so on. Women would roll their eyes at guys’ stupidity and cluelessness — rightfuly so! I could go on, good exchange!

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
  138. @Jim Christian

    You remind me of guys who watch porn. When reminded that there are women who are horribly exploited, abused and spiritually destroyed in the making of porn, the porn watcher simply says “it was their choice”.

    They wash their hands and go on watching ignoring the fact that in consuming such a product they perpetuate misery.

    Your attitudes above seems to perpetuate misery. Is it really worth it?

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  139. @Fran Macadam

    It is really the only honest thing we can do in life.

    When we turn away from this it is always a lie and eventually will lead to despair and terror.

  140. Sam J. says:
    @Johanus de Morgateroyde

    “…They’re back in your 20s, where you left them…”

    You’re so right.

    • Replies: @sparrowhawk6
  141. Sam J. says:

    “…Listen, I have no illusion about writing as a career or vocation. As a public overture, it’s mostly pathetic, if not bathetic. So futile, most writers are lucky to have one attentive reader, counting the writer. As a meditation on self and the world, however, it can never be useless, for writing is just thinking made concrete. Writing is a deed to one’s experiences…”

    I really like this. I’m going to send it with a link to some other bloggers and writers I like. I like your writing. So many people on the Earth live, die and crumble to dust and you never hear anything about them. Your writing shows that these people are interesting too and most everyone has a few interesting things about them. A story to tell.

    • Agree: Whoever
  142. @old okie

    Not irony. It is men who wanted the freedom, always men, like de sade and so many others. They liberated women because they wanted their freedom, without wives, without children, without guilt. Especially without guilt!

    But not “everyman”, just the powerful, as Donald says, “grab them anywhere” if you’re rich they let you.

    Poor men and plain women have lost everything with the sexual revolution and the welfare state that is needed to sustain it. Some are lucky and may find love and dignity in life

    Rich men consider themselves the height of virtue and culture. Rich men have many women and many wives. They never consider the damage they have done.

    • Replies: @Truth
  143. @woodNfish

    Yeah, because throwing out social traditions that have taken hundreds and thousands of years to create has worked so well. Dumbest thing I’ve read all day.

    So you approve, for example, of chattel slavery, wage and tax slavery, Salem witch burnings, extermination of the Indians, the building of empires, rape of the land? Shouldn’t we at least reconsider, if not remake such things?

    Do you even know what the phrase, “not necessarily” means?

  144. @Oleaginous Outrager

    Yep, a standard TOP MEN! argument: “It wasn’t a shitty idea, we just had the wrong people in charge!”

    Yep, standard STRAW MAN argument. See my reply to the guy named after a woodie…

    BTW, the self proclaimed “Christian” probably doesn’t have a clue that JC himself was sick of aspects of his society. too. That was his way of “remaking” society, and you can see what a hopeless task that was.

    Your responses are examples of why nothing will really ever change in a spiritual sense.

  145. TheJester says:

    Linh,

    You are spot-on about feminism freeing males from commitment in a sexually promiscuous environment (and we know that being promiscuous is what proves to women that they have finally broken free of male oppression).

    As my father used to say, “Why buy the cow when the milk is free!”

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  146. @Chuck Orloski

    Pardon me, Jacques? My “publish comment” trigger finger was anxious.

    You’re fine, good sir! No pardon needed!

  147. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Skeptikal

    Psst! Quit digging.

  148. @woodNfish

    Good point. Those trigger-happy white males will be the death of us all. Provided you don’t look too far into the details.

  149. @Max Payne

    The problem with women unable to find men is that they are insatiable in general.

    And the spoiled chicks from materially rich families are especially insatiable. They’re usually so narcissistic they’re typically especially miserable too.

    Anyway, as to your original insatiability claim, most versions versions of “the Bible” change this translation to something more “acceptable.” Instead of the more accurate “mouth of the womb,” almost all English versions change it to “barren.” Older Latin translations of the Hebrew are better translated,

    Douay-Rheims Bible Proverbs 30:15-16

    The horseleech hath two daughters that say: Bring, bring. There are three things that never are satisfied, and the fourth never saith: It is enough.

    Hell, and the mouth of the womb, and the earth which is not satisfied with water: and the fire never saith: It is enough.

    I’d like to know what the original Hebrews meant.

  150. @Anon

    Congratulations on your expression of pure wisdom.

    Regarding Luna dunham : she is the epitome of everything that has gone haywire within society, she is the most disgusting perfect example of liberal lunacy.

    But this all may be, as trivial as it sounds, traced back to Karl Marx, and somehow or other there must finally be an exposure and resolution to the issue of leftist “Professors”, as these perfidious bastards are at the bottom of all of this malaise.

    Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” society member of forty-plus years and pro jazz artist.

  151. @Jon Halpenny

    But arguably polygamy is the default setting of relations between the sexes anyway. Monogamy enforced by Christianity may be an anomalous phenomenon.

    They don’t have families in China? They didn’t have families in the Roman Empire before Christianity?

  152. The hipster life leaves you broke, alone, old and miserable… usually childless, too. This is worth writing fucking poetry?

    Go ahead. Fuck around until you’re 45. It turns bitter, tiresome, violent and depressing pretty fast in your mid 20s.

    Instead of being proud of being fucked up (and I’ve been there), you might consider cleaning up your act, acquiring a decent job skill, going to church and committing yourself to wife and children.

    • Replies: @Truth
  153. @PseudonymicHandle

    “They don’t have families in China? They didn’t have families in the Roman Empire before Christianity? ”

    I’m not sure the point you’re making? Polygamous societies have families, it’s just that the family structure is somewhat different from a monogamous society.

    Roman Empire is interesting. As far as I know, the Romans practiced monogamy long before they were Christian. Most Pagans in Ancient Europe were polygamous. The powerful men got most of the women.

    • Replies: @jake
  154. @Buck Turgidson

    Admit it–you’re describing Marissa Meyers there at Yahoo! I just saw on television that Yahoo was hacked in 2013 (and they’ve just now discovered/admitted it) and personal data of over a billion people were compromised. Her management at Yahoo has been a textbook case of mismanagement–had she been a man she would (most likely) never been hired or fired by the board of directors eighteen months after they realized their mistake.

    • Replies: @Rod
  155. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    [ People in dirt-poor countries get married all the time. The guy might have one cow and a goat to his name, but there he is, wife and kids in tow. ]

    I think two reasons: (1) larger families are natural responses to poverty, providing human capital sharing and diversifying against calamitous events befalling the individual and (2) marriage possibly being the simplest if not the only avenue for sex; primary activity in a limited set of entertainment options.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Talha
    , @Anon
  156. jake says:
    @Anonymous

    To tell this is to be a deplorable Sexist, who almost certainly is also a racist, homophobic anti-Semite and Islamophobe.

    Liberalism cannot tolerate such freedom of speech.

  157. BB753 says:
    @Njguy73

    It’s very likely he buys them drinks or they wouldn’t give him the time of day. No offense meant, it happens to a lot of men.

  158. jake says:
    @Jon Halpenny

    Greeks were not polygamous. and neither were most Celts and Germans. Earlier Greeks did allow concubines, who usually were slaves. And Celts and Germans did the same. But polygamy as was normal among Semites and Turks, as well as black Africans, was not close to typical among Indo-Europeans.

  159. @Sam J.

    Many have seemed to miss the obvious. Where have all the good men gone….” gone to flowers, every one.” Yes my friends we have been at war, hot or cold, for nearly all of my (66 year) life. Those men who were not killed or maimed outright later fall to drug or drink, or the demons marathoning their dreams. Those who make it through unscathed are at a premium when the ladies go searching for, “A Few Good Men.”

  160. @Pat the Rat

    Hey, I didn’t hang third wave feminism around everyone’s neck. And yeah, hookers and strippers and porn chicks get to do whatever they want. Try to stop them. Go ahead, put a stop to it. In any case, I patronize none of it. But they are free to do as they see fit. As for you, Rat, you remind me of Jim Baker, railing against porn today and tonight, you’re at the feet of the nastiest, fattest, Blackest junkie crack hoe on the Quarter. Just an impression. Is your misery really worth it? Is your crack-hoe’s?

    Like I said, men work with what they have to work with. This was imposed from on high, it’s infected the colleges, the workplace, politics, media. Capitol Hill used to be a pretty cooperative place until feminism took its place on the aisle. I couldn’t stop any of that destruction either. And you know what? Any entity that allowed it, got what they deserved.

    Their attitudes certainly perpetuated misery. Was it worth it? Or is Capitol Hill simply working with whom and what it was sent?

    • Replies: @Pat the Rat
  161. Corvinus says:
    @Diversity Heretic

    “Readers of Chateau Heartiste will easily see in this story the consequences of women riding the alpha cock carousel, and the civilization-destroying consequences of feminism.

    I wouldn’t trust the readers of CH to be anything other than wretches themselves. They learn how to take “advice” from single, childless men themselves to do whatever it takes to bed women, then have the audacity to claim that these same women they worked so hard to plow, ought to have refused their advances in the name of chastity. What destroys civilization are men and women who engage in sex outside of marriage, as commanded by the Bible, according to Dalrock and company, i.e. “male Christian alphas”.

    “Most women with children, even in unhappy marriages, are better off than these wretches.”

    No. Single men and women who lack the financial means and the mental toughness to raise children ought to remain single until they mature enough to handle this incredibly demanding responsibility.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @King George III
  162. @Art

    Beautifully said. I think your understanding is right. How sad indeed that so many people today will never know real love and intimacy. And will never know the pure and glorious love of a baby and then a child.

  163. Corvinus says:
    @TheJester

    “You are spot-on about feminism freeing males from commitment in a sexually promiscuous environment…”

    My great uncles, who served in WWII, had told my father, who conveyed the stories to me that women even during that time frame were promiscuous as single women. Indeed, the 1960′s sexual revolution played a major role in enabling men and women to discuss openly about sex and their experiences, but women since the early 1900′s were engaging in all sorts of depraved acts, it’s just that it wasn’t widely reported at that time.

  164. @Truth

    And yes, the modern pastime of westerners, pretending they are confused about something the damn well understand.

  165. Truth says:
    @Jim Christian

    Chicks from Harvard don’t trouble themselves with a rogue like me.

    Jim, I am an amateur psychologist at best, but what you, and a million guys like you are really saying is “Chicks at Harvard who are 20 years younger than me, whom I would have been attracted to when I was their age, don’t trouble themselves with a rouge like me.”

    Just as when Reed or Derbyshire talks about how they race traited because “white women are such creatures”, are really saying “I race taited because I was no longer attractive to white women 20 years younger than me.”

    The world is not that complicated unless you make it so.

    And Merry Christmas to you as well, my friend.

  166. @Truth

    I’m not sure it is a problem to refrain from sex when unmarried / unengaged.

    The problem would rather seem to be that so few of them are getting married at a healthy young age, or any age, and having children.

    Like our young people, in a way. Here, especially in the Left and in bigger cities, they need to get off the Internet, stop the whining about big bad daddy and big bad America and big bad whitey, cut down the drinking, and get a real life already. It’s amazing how much time and effort is available for real adult intimacy — marriage — and raising children, when you dump the Pokémon, the video games, and drop “feeling micro-aggressive” as a hobby.

    But figuring out whether to say “hir” or “Zie” is so much more important than perpetuating one’s own family and nation, it seems.

    • Replies: @Truth
  167. To the unhappy women crying that “having it all” is not fulfilling:
    Enjoy your boxed wine and pointy-eared furry children.
    We’re glad you’re strong and independent, and encourage you to stay that way.

    Signed-
    The men of MGTOW

    PS – promiscuity only gets you a higher-value male for a night or two.
    He’s not committing because he’s got lots of options.
    You’re just a special snowflake in a snowbank full of promiscuous women.
    How’s that working out for you?

  168. @old okie

    See your point, but it is degrading our men, too, and leaving too many of them mired in loneliness, substance abuse, the pathetic altnerate reality of all-the-time internet, and increasingly, homsosexuality and bisexuality.

    A lot of men are ending up childless and fundamentally unhappy after their decades of sexual conquests and mindless hookups. Not to mention diseased.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  169. Truth says:
    @Anon

    Non-black races are more than savages. So, they have found deeper meaning in sex.

    But the civilized races don’t see sex as mere animal horniness or fun…

    You sure about that one, Old Sport?

    https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=pederasty+in+ancient+greece&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

    http://facultyblog.eternitybiblecollege.com/2013/09/homosexuality-in-ancient-rome-and-why-it-matters/#.WFLOYGU-Z-0

  170. Truth says:
    @Jim Christian

    It’s like obscenity in art, Truth: I know it when I see it. The two broads in the picture? Total sluts, complete with slutty-eyed, Thousand Cock-Stare.

    May he who has not sinned, cast…

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  171. @Jim Christian

    This comment is the most poetic version of the cold hard truth I have yet to read on this subject.

    “It’s what women want after all. Must be, because that’s the way it is.”

    Just poetic.

  172. Truth says:
    @Pat the Rat

    Poor men and plain women have lost everything with the sexual revolution and the welfare state that is needed to sustain it.

    Please, do some research as to what life was like before the sexual revolution, in America; not for the 1% but for guys on the level you are on now, and get back to us.

  173. @Max Payne

    You are quite right. I’m mid-40s with three kids under age five. I am content and happy in a way I never had been before, but man is it tiring at this age.

    I’d do it again in a minute to have my Wife and these children, but starting at least ten years earlier would have been wise.

  174. @Jim Christian

    Move somewhere else, then, and get serious about finding a good wife before you’re much older. Sorry to sound like the old guy, but you’ll regret it bitterly if you don’t do it. You seem to have your head on straight and should not waste any more time in this purposeless lifestyle and seemingly inhospitable environment.

    You deserve fulfillment, which you recognize you aren’t going to find the way you’re going. And other decent people in this society need the kind of children whom you are likely to raise.

    • Replies: @Ivy
    , @Jim Christian
  175. Truth says:
    @Shouting Thomas

    The hipster life leaves you broke, alone, old and miserable… usually childless, too. This is worth writing fucking poetry?

    Go ahead. Fuck around until you’re 45. It turns bitter, tiresome, violent and depressing pretty fast in your mid 20s.

    I agree, generally, I think your time frame may be a bit off, most guys can probably have fun with that until 0r so, but yes, for, I would say %90 of men, happiness comes in a committed relationship with children.

    As I think I wrote earlier, I had met, in my life, 5 true magicians with women, going to a nightclub and arranging threesomes with 22 year old Russian models,the didn’t know in 2 hours, that sort of thing,and at this point in their lives, the 4 that I have kept contact with are miserably unhappy bastards.

  176. Truth says:
    @jake

    Greeks were not polygamous.

    Not with women, anyway.

    • LOL: Talha
  177. Truth says:
    @Corvinus

    I wouldn’t trust the readers of CH to be anything other than wretches themselves. They learn how to take “advice” from single, childless men themselves to do whatever it takes to bed women

    And in most cases, fail miserably at their objective. Let’s not leave this out.

  178. Che Guava says:
    @jake

    Good point, Celtic and Germanic tribes (pre-mediaeval), and Greeks in classical times and later, all put great stress on it.

    Roman writers make ample comments in the context of the Germanic tribes, though at war with them, with respect and showing respect to the devotion of the man and wife in married couples to each other.

    Their customs also came to form a large part of Christian marriage customs, and of those widely adopted from there among other cultures, the wedding ring being a particularly clear example, but much more than that comes from their customs, rather than the Church.

    The Celts and Greeks in places had orgiastic festivals, but they had little to do with the modern concept of ‘an orgy’, those customs seem to have evolved to get the young singles married, sure, they must have produced many cases of mistaken paternity!

    In China (pre-Mongol invasion), Korea (loyal monogamy unto death before betrayal is a major theme in folklore and semi-historical writing from the Korean peninsula), except among royalty and parts of the nobility in Japan, but even here, it was also the ideal. Vietnam, too, but I have only read passing references to the folklore, those I have read seem similar to Korean tales.

    Many other cultures (American Indians, most of the patchwork in India, except the excreta of the Muslim invasion) appear the same, but I don’t have enough reading on them in that respect to say much.

    The interesting thing is perhaps to consider the opposite, the anti-monogamy cultures, where they are, the retrogade effects they have, and their rates of population explosion.

    It would be very funny if the Mormons, seeing Muslim invaders in the US being allowed to break the law on bigamy and polygamy (as they are), reverted to their original doctrines.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @grapesoda
    , @Talha
  179. Truth says:

    So NOBODY wants to take a crack at how many lovers makes a 30 y/o woman a “slut?” I need raw numbers here, Gentlemen…

  180. Talha says:
    @Art

    Wow – that was seriously deep. Art. Wisdom from a life of experience. I wish our young would listen more to their elders – this is another massive problem in our societies. Post-modern youth have been spoon-fed a diet of narcissistic individualism that makes them think they already know it all. It is a guilty pleasure, but I’ll admit to watching short clips of Judge Judy yell at young irresponsible buffoons (men and women) on youtube – “And you had kids with him??!!” “That’s her car, she doesn’t have to loan it to you!!!!”

    I really hope these people aren’t a measure of most real people and are picked due to their outlandish behavior.

    Peace.

  181. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth

    “Chicks at Harvard who are 20 years younger than me, whom I would have been attracted to when I was their age, don’t trouble themselves with a rouge like me.”

    They’d have been well within their rights and preferences to not trouble with a rouge; rogue or not.

  182. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    Hey Che,

    American Indians…but I don’t have enough reading on them

    “The Native Americans practiced polygamy (they had more than one wife), because many men died in the struggle to survive, so there was an excess of women to be cared for.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/shp/americanwest/nativeamericansrev1.shtml

    “Moreover, the United States has recognized Native American polygamous unions as a matter of course.”

    http://lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=twlj

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  183. @PseudonymicHandle

    Polygamy in China was extremely rare. Even in Christian monogamous societies, kings regularly would have mistresses – while it was more common for plural marriage in Chinese societies, its probably not nearly to the extent as some here imagine.

    My family was nobility and I don’t think we ever had more than two wives at a time.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  184. @Sam Shama

    I would also say that status is gained by having children and being known as being decent parents of children there; in more developed countries, its harder to gain status as being parents. In most non-industrial positions, having a larger family is an actual material gain.

  185. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    Agree – the modern welfare nation-state definitely is a major contributor in changing the value of the family.

    Peace.

  186. Che Guava says:
    @RadicalCenter

    That is their choice. I was standing on a bridge, late last year, quietly watching the moon and the river.

    Some American arsehole comes charging along yelling into his phone, I can’t express the words literally, close, I do not have a mimetic memory (but much closer than most).

    ‘Hey, Yuki, saw your profile on Tindr. You are in so many cool groups, threesomes too, that would be so cool!’

    That is the only part I mimetecally remember, but hIs body language was so ugly, of course staring into his phone screen the whole time, not noticing anything around also walking in a very pumped up way.

    Educational.

  187. Ivy says:
    @RadicalCenter

    Jim could do worse than attending church services regularly. There are many women to meet and those awakening on Sunday morning without a hangover or other issues are probably better for men and certainly for themselves in the long run. Spiritual nourishment helps all around, and the more adventurous could even try the various discussion or study groups.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  188. Che Guava says:
    @Truth

    You have a funny habit of misusing *traited*, not a word AFAIK, you may try the ‘preview’ function, may helping you to not be such a fool in the future.

    I wanted to say that I am sad to hear about BB to Linh, this thread is too long, one or two other things, must sleeping, work tomorrow.

    • Replies: @Truth
  189. Ron Unz says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Polygamy in China was extremely rare. Even in Christian monogamous societies, kings regularly would have mistresses – while it was more common for plural marriage in Chinese societies, its probably not nearly to the extent as some here imagine.

    I happened to notice that comment, which I think is exactly correct. Lots of Western analysts unfamiliar with Chinese history get severely confused on this point. Here’s a short discussion I provided a couple of years ago in response to exactly such an error (it’s in the second half) provoked by my Chinese Social Darwinism article:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/meritocracy-the-college-admissions-season/

    http://www.unz.com/article/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    Even though polygamy was illegal in Christian Europe, monarchs and nobles often had significant numbers of “concubines” or mistresses, occasionally even rising to harem levels. For example, in the 18th Century, contemporaneous accounts claimed that King August II of Saxony-Poland sired over 350 illegitimate children, though most modern historians believe this is a considerable exaggeration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_II_the_Strong#Illegitimate_issue

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  190. @jake

    “Greeks were not polygamous. and neither were most Celts and Germans. Earlier Greeks did allow concubines, who usually were slaves. And Celts and Germans did the same. But polygamy as was normal among Semites and Turks, as well as black Africans, was not close to typical among Indo-Europeans.”

    We can argue to what extent Pagan Celts, Germans and Vikings were polygamous. I’m Irish-I know Gaelic chiefs practiced polygamy even centuries after the country had become Christian. Indeed it was only the English conquest that brought polygamy to an end. So it was certainly common in Ireland.

    Recent genetic research on the early Indo-Europeans also indicates polygamy was the norm among them. Modern Europeans seem to be descended from a surprisingly limited number of patriarchs who lived during the early Indo-European period.

    “A single patriarch is father to half of European men”. http://www.speroforum.com/a/VPEITOCBHE28/77878-A-single-patriarch-is-father-to-half-of-modern-European-men

  191. grapesoda says:
    @Che Guava

    Yes, ancient India, as depicted in the Puranas and Itihasas etc., was mostly monogamous. It was mostly kings and other higher ups who had the multiple wives on occasion. Ergo, the percentage of women who were taken up by rich men was not very high.

  192. grapesoda says:

    I want to get married, just not in America, because of the oppressive divorce laws. But really, if you look at it, pretty much every country has huge red flags in one way or another. One just needs to do the best one can with the options that are available.

  193. @Jim Christian

    The man doth protest his powerlessness too much methinks.

    As for misery on my part. None really, but I have a family which gives a different perspective.

    Is it worth it? I think so, in the end our promiscuity and porn culture does incredible damage to our dignity as human beings. Think Amanda that Linh wrote about a few months back. Her life happens because others think their pleasure is worth more than her suffering.

    • Replies: @BucephalusXYZ
  194. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Hey iffen,

    I agree with you – the elites don’t care (expect that you are a commodity and for votes) about these people. And I totally agree we need to bring balance back and that the rich are obscenely wealthy compared to the rest of people. But – do you think that dirt-poor people in Oujda are going to stop trying to form families simply because their king could buy out their city and scores of others (and there is no avenue for them to replace him*):

    http://www.forbes.com/profile/king-mohammed-vi/

    What I mean is; how long is it worth waiting for? Japan’s economy has been stagnant for a couple of decades. How long will it take us to bring that balance back into the US? And are people going to simply hold off on their dreams (even if small) for a promise that may not come in their lifetimes? You get one shot at this – and only within a couple of decades for a normal human living span.

    Europeans survived crazy things; multiple instances of the plague, horrendous religious wars, horrendous political wars – hell, they lived under feudalism for centuries (if we want to talk about exploitation of the masses). Yet, through it all, they buckled down and had families and many of the people on the thread are here due to their perseverance. And the situation in those days was far more dire than it is today.

    Amr ibn al-’As (ra), whose armies kicked Roman behind up and down North Africa, had very praiseworthy words about them (and remember, ar-Rum was the word the Arabs used for Europeans in general):
    “They are the most judicious of people during a tribulation, they are the quickest to recover after a calamity, they are the quickest to return to battle after a retreat, and they behave well with the poor and weak. A fifth of theirs quality is good and beautiful: they are best at preventing the oppression of their kings.”

    Will the inheritors of that culture wipe themselves out due to Tinder hook-ups, narcissism and lack of foresight and will? It is not necessarily the poverty-stricken man that I’m talking of; because if he truly lacks the means, what can he do but be patient. Rather those who are in a position but will not bother themselves about it.

    But hey, it’s their genes – if they want to voluntarily remove them from human inheritance, it’s their choice.

    Prediction: This thread will blow out the number reached on the 9/11 thread.

    Peace.

    *Not that they want to, he is fairly popular among the people.

    • Replies: @landlubber
    , @iffen
  195. Truth says:
    @Che Guava

    I’m well aware that “trained” is not a word, but “traded” does not make any sense in this case. There is not a word that I am aware of for the past form of what a “traitor” does.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  196. markflag says:
    @Anonymous Nephew

    Though one cannot always trust statistics, the incidence of depression in the young has increased every decade since WW II.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
  197. Skeptikal says:
    @jake

    Per the most recent Harper’s Index:
    “Percentage of users on Polygamy.com, a website that facilitates polygamous marrriage, who are women: 55″

    Ha ha, hate to spoil the narrative. Actually, polygamy has quite a few advantages for women.
    You get someone to father a couple of children and take care of you and them, but you don’t have to put up with all of the pater’s unwanted demands for boring sex (yeah, I know all o> think they are great lays, but few are).

  198. Truth says:
    @RadicalCenter

    I’m not sure it is a problem to refrain from sex when unmarried / unengaged.

    Late virginity implies no interest in sex, no sex: No children; and this is 4/10 adults in the nation.

    • Replies: @Talha
  199. anonimo says:

    But why not take the chances with someone? Be honest to yourself of the main qualities you want or would like and give it a try. You will never know a person entirely. Humans change and experiences changes us. I know it is not simple!

  200. @Talha

    Prediction: This thread will blow out the number reached on the 9/11 thread.

    Yeah, because with the exception of the author, none of the over-50 dudes doing the bulk of the commenting has talked with a young woman for 20 years, so the thread is wide open.

    • LOL: Talha
  201. @Truth

    So NOBODY wants to take a crack at how many lovers makes a 30 y/o woman a “slut?”

    Was that pun intended? ;)

  202. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    except the excreta of the Muslim invasion

    Even our poop is polygamous!!!

    We will out-breed you all!!! Bwaahahahaha!!!

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  203. gwynedd1 says:
    @Truth

    A 30 year old woman who has anymore than say 5 sexual partners is clearly not geared for whatever reason for basic human pair bonding either by choice or because of poor judgment. Even 5 is rather pushing it for marriage material.

  204. Talha says:
    @Truth

    Hey Truth,

    implies no interest in sex

    Well, at least with a warm body. If I remember correctly, one of the articles pointing this trend out mentioned the ubiquity of anime porn.

    this is 4/10 adults in the nation

    How did a culture of Samurai and concubines get to this point??!!

    Peace.

  205. Art says:

    These women chose suicide because they have no nest or the possibility of creating one. They have gone against their human nature and ignored the reality of who they are.

    We cannot escape what we are. Our biological makeup defines us. If we are a man, we are biologically programed to do certain things – if we are a woman we do different things – that is our biological nature exerting itself.

    All that is human is not in a man or in a woman. Because they conflict, the sum total of all the different human emotional reactions cannot reside in one human individual. Men’s emotions are suited for the outside world – women for the inside world or the nest. That is our human nature.

    Liberal culture says to ignore our biological makeup and be both a men and a woman – this just cannot happen. Men need an outside task suited to their emotional makeup – woman need a nest to satisfy their emotional nature.

    A great lie of liberal think is that the nest is not valuable. That somehow the workplace is the ultimate in human attainment. For 99% of everybody, what happens in the home far outlasts what happens in the workplace. Children and grandchildren and great grandchildren go on and on – while for most everyone, what they create in the workplace lasts only for a few years. How children are raised greatly matters for all – family and culture.

    The left is cheating women of their birth right to be what they are born to be – the most important thing in the lives of the future.

    As we live longer and longer there is plenty of time to go to work.

    Peace — Art

  206. Klokman says:
    @Jon Halpenny

    I suppose one could argue polygamy is the default, but I wouldn’t give 2¢ for that “study”.

    George Howard published his 3 vol research on matrimony in 1904, as did Ed Westermarck in his 3 vol research on marriage history, and Stephanie Coontz published her history on marriage in 2005 and they all reported the same thing: polygamy was an exception throughout the world as far back as records provide. Monogamy has always been the dominant form.

    As for thinking polygamy is a viable approach, I’ve been writing the history of my family for the last year, back to the 1600s. Polygamy was a significant portion of my mother’s ancestry. If one looks at family problems today for the mess it’s in, try looking at the mess that polygamy made of people’s lives in the 1800′s! Where these authors were able to obtain information on polygamous societies, they found them rife with problems every bit as much as monogamous ones.

    4th & 5th generation kids of Utah Territory pioneers are pretty much related to each other. Unless they move out of the area to find a spouse, chances are they’ll be marrying a cousin. My first wife and I are 8th cousins, and she and my second wife are 3rd. I expect to find a link with my second wife err long making us 6th. Probably a third of the kids I went to school with were distant cousins. Some of their ancestors keep showing up in one way or another in my family ancestry.

    I don’t have anything against marrying a cousin, but the single parameter that kept showing up in these books on marriage history was the concern for social and cultural stagnation. It wasn’t the genetic incest they were all concerned about as much as the inbreeding of attitudes, values, and customs. Most cultures are concerned with social diversity to prevent stagnation or extinction. The Arabs are now suffering from too many generations of having married 1st cousins. They are entrenched in their traditions to the point they have great difficulty adjusting to the world’s more diverse cultures.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  207. BB753 says:
    @Truth

    Ok, I’ll play. Two if she’s divorced, one if she’s still single.

  208. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    In Vietnamese literature, marital fidelity is a constant theme and always depicted as the highest virtue. There are many folk tales about the faithful wife with infinite patience and perseverance. A boulder by the sea, for example, would be interpreted as a woman waiting for her husband.

    I assume there are similar examples in Chinese literature.

    Ezra Pound gave us a glimpse of the Chinese ideal about marital fidelity in his famous “The River Merchant’s Wife,” very loosely translated from Li Bai:

    While my hair was still cut straight across my forehead
    I played about the front gate, pulling flowers.
    You came by on bamboo stilts, playing horse,
    You walked about my seat, playing with blue plums.
    And we went on living in the village of Chokan:
    Two small people, without dislike or suspicion.

    At fourteen I married My Lord you.
    I never laughed, being bashful.
    Lowering my head, I looked at the wall.
    Called to, a thousand times, I never looked back.

    At fifteen I stopped scowling,
    I desired my dust to be mingled with yours
    Forever and forever and forever.
    Why should I climb the look out?

    At sixteen you departed,
    You went into far Ku-to-yen, by the river of swirling eddies,
    And you have been gone five months.
    The monkeys make sorrowful noise overhead.

    You dragged your feet when you went out.
    By the gate now, the moss is grown, the different mosses,
    Too deep to clear them away!
    The leaves fall early this autumn, in wind.
    The paired butterflies are already yellow with August
    Over the grass in the West garden;
    They hurt me. I grow older.
    If you are coming down through the narrows of the river Kiang,
    Please let me know beforehand,
    And I will come out to meet you
    As far as Cho-fu-Sa.

    By Rihaku

    It’s interesting that B.B. recorded a dream of seeing a dead goose while walking, hand-in-hand, with her fiance. At chinesesage.info, there is this bit:

    A goose is a symbol of marital fidelity like the mandarin duck as it mates for life and often flies in pairs. An old tradition for marriage gifts reinforces this, the bridegroom’s family was given a gander and the bride’s family a goose. Wild geese are symbolic of separation as they migrate south in winter.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  209. iffen says:
    @Truth

    Sometimes slut just means, “I think she sleeps with everybody except me.”

    • Replies: @Truth
  210. @markflag

    These figures are accurate in that prescriptions have doubled, so I suppose the pills are being swallowed. If the UK experience is like the US one, twice as many women as men are taking them.

    Depression also seems to be a white thing, if the suicide rates are a guide. Highest in the North-East – whitest part of England and not wealthy, lowest in London where less than half the population are white Brits. There’s a lot of factors though – Northern Ireland had the lowest rate when ‘the Troubles’ were on and you didn’t know whether the IRA would blow up your high street that day. Since the peace deal it’s soared – doubled between 2004 and 2006.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2014registrations

  211. The evidence of polygamy in the past.

    “Dr. Baumeister explained that today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. Maybe 80 percent of women reproduced, whereas only 40 percent of men did.”

    “Most men who ever lived did not have descendants who are alive today. Their lines were dead ends.”

    http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/?_r=0

  212. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Linh Dinh

    I should add that much of this idealism has gone out the window in contemporary Vietnam. Today, money is king, prostitution is rampant and there is a mania for any man with a foreign passport, be he an overseas Vietnamese, other Asians (Korean, Taiwanese or Chinese) or a Westerner. The Vietnamese family is certainly in crisis.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Anon
  213. @Linh Dinh

    I wouldn’t doubt that a large factor in the desire to get out is due to the lingering effects of French colonialism as well as the French and American wars on those folk after WW2.

    Carpet bombing rice paddies and spraying vast acres with herbicides that are causing birth defects to this day, unexploded ordnance, lead sprayed practically everywhere, and herding people en masse into de facto concentration camps, etc. are just a few of the factors that have to be making life rough over there.

    I can imagine, too, that TV paints a picture of material Utopia elsewhere that’s hard to resist and I’m sure the bankers have found ways to screw the folks too.

  214. @Klokman

    I think its hard to argue that rich men practiced some form of polygamy, but at the same time, I think its doubtful that there were many societies where polygamy was such a norm that many men were wife-less. I believe some African tribal societies did that, and could only maintain that with very high male mortality rates.

  215. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Communism did a terrible job of suppressing human nature for too long.

    Now, nature is exploding. It’s about materialism and greed and money.

    But excesses of that will lead to another backlash… maybe like in Iran in 79.

    Only Neo-Fascism can maintain the balance between nature and culture.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  216. Truth says:
    @iffen

    No, that’s what “bitch” means. “Slut means she sleeps with everyone including me.

  217. @Corvinus

    You’re stupid on Jim’s blog, and you’re even stupider here.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
  218. Fooner says:
    @The King is a Fink

    > Men for the most part aren’t interested in kids or relationships

    This is simply not true. Men are very interested in having and raising kids, in leaving a legacy. Feminism, however, has stolen this away. Your sons can be taken from you on a whim. Happens all the time. This is the central reason why men “won’t commit” these days. It’s a false deal.

    If women and society want men to commit to marriage and relationships, there must be an ironclad guarantee that his sons will remain his. They must restore the ancient bargain between the sexes: the fruit of his labour in return for the fruit of her labour. For nothing less than a child of his own blood to raise as he sees fit will men agree to surrender all they have.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
  219. Yes. It is tragic to have been a part of and to see so clearly now. I’m a baby boomer who followed the path of my childhood muse Cat Stevens who is today Yusuf Islam and happily married to a traditional Muslim wife. I guess he’s as happy as I am today having survived two marriages and the sexual revolution and figured out what was wrong I’m very happily married to a traditional eastern girl and we’re both living in bliss not seen much in the West anymore and my name is now Muhammad Abbass. I can tell you why Islam is being demonized and assaulted by the Socialist New World Order too. This is it. You can easily enslave individuals. Not so easily a family or village. The traditional family structure is the enemy of those who would control everything.

    • Replies: @Talha
  220. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    It appears that only neo-fascism in the comment sections can get rid of Priss Factor.

  221. @Pat the Rat

    This is a good interchange. I think Pat the Rat and Jim Christian are both on the right track, seeking the truth.

  222. Back to the theme of ‘Unhappy Women’, I have noticed that older gals, ones having been divorced generally more than once and having had their childbearing obligations completed have now acquired a form of bitterness that I hadn’t seen before. The Trump melodrama seemed to have caused them to become somewhat radicalized and they started to spew their bile on social media and women being women, engaged their mouths (keyboards) before putting their brains into gear thereby leaving themselves open to statement analysis, the lost art of divining real thoughts.

    My observations are based on personal contacts having known these women essentially all their lives and though the individuals are disparate they now scowl in lockstep.

    The locus of their bitterness directly or indirectly is of course the male animal but now it fuses with getting old and hence relatively unattractive meaning having lost their natural hook while maybe sub-consciously realizing that the Cosmo/Steinem/Friedman juggernaut prodded them to burn their respective nests in divorce court by using ” you go girl” logic, that is no logic at all.

    The only salve they have now is the industry of feel good charlatans who convince them that they are beautiful inside and a beautiful soul etc…

    But the Trump phenomenon ignited something within them. I can only surmise that it is because he is a man’s man, rich beyond belief, takes no ka-ka from anyone, has a beautiful family and upgrades his wives to a newer, sleeker model as he requires.

    In other words they are now inflicted with classic cognitive dissonance whereby their programming of the male as a dominating, useless and vile creature was suddenly smashed to bits and the way things should be ( as remembered during their own upbringing) was thrust upon them with the force of a tsunami. After all that fraud Freud might have said that an American President symbolizes the father of the nation ( and of course the Gorgon would have supported and maintained their previous sense of reality). Anyway, perhaps another view of another cohort of ‘Unhappy Women’.

    These are just some things I heard while talking to myself.

    Cheers-

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Corvinus
  223. Karl says:
    @Lovernios X

    > next to the Frozen Beef Pies at Boney’s Market

    Life Pro Tip: it’s a good place to pick up cougars who are getting the Survivor Benefit of their deceased 3-star Admiral husband.

  224. @Truth

    There is not a word that I am aware of for the past form of what a “traitor” does.

    I think the verb related to “traitor” is “betray”. Past tense is “betrayed”.

  225. Karl says:
    @Linh Dinh

    > I was raised very Catholic

    yo peeps, you want to meet EXTREMELY Shtuppable Viet chicks?

    Any church named “Our Lady of Lavang” is gonna be crawling with them.

    LifeProTip: Viet Catholics are funny. Maybe 75% of the people will split IMMEDIATELY after Communion. Once your ticket’s been punched for the week, no point in singing any more songs, I suppose.

  226. Karl says:
    @Talha

    > but [the Amish] seem to be very content people and that comes from extreme violence during ice hockey matches

    fixed it for you!

    • Replies: @Talha
  227. iffen says:
    @Talha

    And the situation in those days was far more dire than it is today.

    You cannot compare differing economies and cultures and offer those examples as proof that the underclass can “pull themselves” up.

    It is one thing for a subsistence farmer to copy and emulate the successful farmers and a completely different task (mostly impossible) for low SES individuals to copy and emulate a successful chemical engineer.

    We need to grade on the curve, Talha.

  228. @Timur The Lame

    The bitterness can be quite amazing. My wife and I do some work at a place that’s mostly staffed with volunteers and we are constantly amazed that even there, the “hag” contingent spews the bile every chance it gets and never misses an opportunity to be difficult while the males are a basically jovial lot that’s a breeze to get along with.

    The volunteers, one would ordinarily guess, go there to have a good time and some camaraderie, but the unmarried middle aged women there are typically mouthy, nasty, controlling, caustic, sarcastic, hyper-critical, extremely opinionated and have a less than zero sense of humor. If ya have a tendency for impishness and once ya learn how to deal with them, they make a good source of laughs though. I do it by constantly challenging their goofy haughtiness while acting unctuously accommodating.

    We figure many of them go there to find an eligible pool of “nice” guys, but even there, they can’t hide what they are. They even smell bad.

    They are especially nasty to the women who’re married.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @TelfoedJohn
  229. Corvinus says:
    @Timur The Lame

    “I have noticed that older gals, ones having been divorced generally more than once and having had their childbearing obligations completed have now acquired a form of bitterness that I hadn’t seen before.”

    The same can be said with older men who went through the same experience. They think the world “owes” them because they made poor choices in women, and thus blame females in general because they were “misled”.

    “The Trump melodrama seemed to have caused them to become somewhat radicalized and they started to spew their bile on social media and women being women, engaged their mouths (keyboards) before putting their brains into gear thereby leaving themselves open to statement analysis, the lost art of divining real thoughts.”

    Again, the same thing with men, especially those who declare themselves as being “alpha”. They are mesmerized by Trump’s money and moxie with women–grab it!–and believe they are able to now openly act in similar fashion.

    “My observations are based on personal contacts having known these women essentially all their lives and though the individuals are disparate they now scowl in lockstep.”

    Well, we all know that personal anecdotes are rife with confirmation bias, right?

    “The locus of their bitterness directly or indirectly is of course the male animal but now it fuses with getting old and hence relatively unattractive meaning having lost their natural hook while maybe sub-consciously realizing that the Cosmo/Steinem/Friedman juggernaut prodded them to burn their respective nests in divorce court by using ” you go girl” logic, that is no logic at all.”

    Men also endure the same physical decline–loss of hair, paunch belly, flabby arms. They try to act young and go after women 20-30 years their junior by throwing money at them. But, in the end, reliving the glory years only yields disappointment and despair.

    “The only salve they have now is the industry of feel good charlatans who convince them that they are beautiful inside and a beautiful soul etc…”

    That would be the manosphere led by Roissy and Roosh.

    But the Trump phenomenon ignited something within them. I can only surmise that it is because he is a man’s man, rich beyond belief, takes no ka-ka from anyone, has a beautiful family and upgrades his wives to a newer, sleeker model as he requires.

    “In other words they are now inflicted with classic cognitive dissonance whereby their programming of the male as a dominating, useless and vile creature was suddenly smashed to bits and the way things should be ( as remembered during their own upbringing) was thrust upon them with the force of a tsunami.”

    You are actually describing projection here, a classic Freudian concept.

  230. people should read and put into practice Erich Fromm’s The Art of Loving

    missus charley and self repeat our wedding vows every night, to love and honor in sickness and health all the days of our life

    everyone needs someone or something to love, something to do, and something to look forward to

    Merry Christmas to all

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  231. @Fooner

    “Men are very interested in having and raising kids, in leaving a legacy. Feminism, however, has stolen this away.”

    Marriage is the only solemn contract which one sex (and only one) gets cash and prizes for breaking. Usually breaking a contract attracts penalties, but the penalties instead go to the party who’s stuck to the contract.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  232. @Karl

    “LifeProTip: Viet Catholics are funny. Maybe 75% of the people will split IMMEDIATELY after Communion. Once your ticket’s been punched for the week, no point in singing any more songs, I suppose.”

    You’ll see that in Ireland too, as the women head out to make Sunday lunch and the men head for a beer. Seen it in Italy as well. Not a majority do it, but a significant minority.

  233. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    I certainly would not recognise the BBC as a reliable source of information.

    Also think that you are citing a monogamous phonenomon that you don’t understand. Re-marriage after the death of the spouse is not polygamy.

    • Replies: @Talha
  234. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    Hey Che,

    I live in old Algonquin stomping grounds. Read up a bit more on the Plains Indians:
    “Polygamy was recognized as an acceptable adjustment for those men whose desire was not satisfied by a single spouse…A man could marry any number of women-it mattered only if he could support them. Some women could be bought cheaply; for others one had to pay a great deal. A man might marry as many as six wives…”
    The Sioux: Life and Customs of a Warrior Society – University of Oklahoma Press

    Re-marriage after the death of the spouse is not polygamy.

    Not for the woman, it is for the man who is already married and is marrying the new widow.

    Not advocating polygamy here – monogamy is obviously the ideal (pulled a 15th century Shafi’i Fiqh manual off my shelf last night, and yup, it says marrying just one woman is considered ‘superior’) – just saying, polygamy is as American as apple pie…possibly even more American.

    Peace.

  235. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey JS,

    Hmmmm…you would think that after trying Plan A (nasty, controlling, caustic, sarcastic, hyper-critical, extremely opinionated, etc.) for 20-25 years, they’d try shifting to Plan B-Z to find an eligible “nice” guy.

    Do these women also try to ‘catch a guy’ at church?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  236. Talha says:
    @Karl

    Hey Karl,

    Ice hockey is a sport with no peer. And the possibility that it may be the catharsis for keeping the Amish calm and otherwise contented means it shall not lose its scepter nor its throne any time soon!

    Peace.

  237. Talha says:
    @Rabbitnexus

    Salaam Bro,

    Congrats for stepping of the post-modern train wreck before it dives off a cliff.

    The traditional family structure is the enemy of those who would control everything.

    So true. May God grant you and your wife many happy years together.

    I think this breakdown of the family gets to the heart of what Brother Cat asked Post-Modern man decades ago – and he said it better than I ever could:
    “I know we’ve come a long way, We’re changing day to day, But tell me, where do the children play?”

    Wa Salaam

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @BB753
  238. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    You are excreta by definition. In my few years in a Western country that was allowing mass–immigration by Moslems, I was receiving immeasurable まharm.

    Re. Look at the earliest photos of the Earth from space, much more green on land than now, those ruined places correspond to the effects of your Islamic amd subb-Saharan friends.

    • Replies: @Talha
  239. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    I like my interpretation* of your words better.

    Peace.

    *Bonus: poo-lygamy

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  240. @Karl

    … Maybe 75% of the people will split IMMEDIATELY after Communion. Once your ticket’s been punched for the week, no point in singing any more songs, I suppose.

    A lost soul factory…the catholic church.

    • Disagree: Hibernian
  241. Tulip says:

    Your pieces are fantastic. If you could just find a way to give them a shitlib slant and dispense with the brutal honesty, you would get a Pulitzer.

  242. @ Corvinus,

    Though your handle would not indicate this you are most likely a Gurrlll (not that there is anything wrong with that) because your rebuttal points reveal the methodology of comparing apples with apples.

    The irony is that you might be an ‘enlightened’ one such as the ones I was making reference to. A real woman would know that men and women do not viscerally think the same way. The points you try to make are based on a false understanding of how men think by way of being indoctrinated by the same sources broadly known as feminist ideologues.

    I am between snowstorms so I cannot nor will not do a point by point rebuttal but wish to state that my post was an observation. My observation. All this envy of Trump (by men) “confirmation bias”, same physical decline problems (meaning that throughout history men only had their looks to catch women) and Roissy, Roosh references ( whoever it or they are) reveal a dogmatic and indoctrinated stance on your part in my opinion. It’s your life and if you sincerely think that way then it is your right to do so.

    Just to make myself clear, I haven’t had a disastrous life experience due to matrimony, I am
    physically robust, I do not envy any man and my opinions and observations are fluid meaning that new facts and evidence can change long held beliefs. Your rebuttal actually supported the observations I had in my original post. Thanks, I suppose.

    Cheers-

  243. Jesus was NOT a suicide. You need to read the Bible with a little more comprehension.

    I used to be a teacher, and I knew a lot of these types of women. School teachers by day; by night, the desperate woman at the end of the bar who thinks “last call” is a love serenade.

    Modern women bought into the HOAX of feminism and are paying the price. Women are meant to bear children and to be mothers. The communists did a good job of convincing women that their intended job (motherhood) is actually some kind of slavery, and that the only way to be free was to take over men’s roles. The result is that women are left trying to do work that they are not suited for, (and which many only get because of government interference and marxist tinkering). And they despise and belittle the only job that will make them happy.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  244. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “you would think that after trying Plan A (nasty, controlling, caustic, sarcastic, hyper-critical, extremely opinionated, etc.) for 20-25 years, they’d try shifting to Plan B-Z to find an eligible “nice” guy.”

    Actually, all that bitterness comes later. At first, you’re much less opinionated, controlling, etc., and you invest in a guy (providing him with free sex and housework on top of paying half the bills) for about six years just to learn that he is “not ready” to have a real marriage or you’re not really all that compatible. Or you give a guy a baby but then he tries hard to shove you back into the workforce in a month or two after the birth. And, no, he’s not gonna be just as good as rearing an infant as you are and no, he’s not as good or motivated to do the housework as you are, so no, he’s not gonna always share the burden, but he sure will get that progeny to bear his last name.

    And no these guys are not alphas, just your typical post-modern average looking schmucks who just want to take whatever they can get from what the current life offers.

    You kinda feel cheated as a woman at some point.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Chukhed
  245. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    And they despise and belittle the only job that will make them happy.

    A dishonest claim. Women are pushed back into the labor market to pay their share of the bills mostly by their husbands, they are literally pulled away from their newborn infants. Just to keep the living standard. And to have dignity because in America if you are poor and if you are just a mom without an income, nobody will have respect for you. May not be the case for some upper middle class small white town mom, but it is the case for many (majority of) women.

  246. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Timur The Lame

    So you think younger women do not see older guys leaving their “old” wives and exchanging them for Melania types and don’t draw conclusions from that? You think that is somehow admirable and healthy for society and that’s how people should treat each other – as utility? Then don’t complain next time when you as a guy are only used as an ATM machine.

    • Replies: @dcite
  247. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Well, I agree with you there, those situations definitely do suck and the bitterness would be understandable. And women feeling cheated by those kinds of guys also makes sense. This 50%-50% stuff never made sense to me.

    Any man claiming to be an ‘alpha’ and not fully providing for even just one woman has a vastly different idea of what that word means than I do.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  248. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    When we are young, things look great for both parties. For a while. I can’t speak for everyone, but typically if a young woman “shacks up” with a guy (moves in together and sleeps with him exclusively), that means she is ready to settle down (unless she is some sort of a gold digger concubine type for a successful guy). That means marriage should preferably come within those two years of living together. In two to fours years the novelty will wear down and the biological reality will set in. If at that point, the woman is paying her “share” and provides her femininity and domesticity, for a young woman, that turns into a raw deal. I know that some women like it or prefer it that way (e.g., to keep options open or to keep their freedom), however, from the pov of female biology, if you’re already sleeping with the guy regularly that means you are most likely in love and ready for family. The bitterness comes years later.

    However, if this guy is talking about bitter, divorced women at church then I really don’t get it (even though divorce can be crushing). If you are a mother and receive help raising the child (financial and help from grandparents / daycare), there really is no need to feel bitter. Unless your husband cheated on you, which isn’t always the case. Personally, I’ve never met a divorced mom who is bitter. Even the ones that haven’t remarried have a pretty fulfilled (while not ideal) life. Once you have children, the whole game changes and you are no longer as needy of male attention. The bitter ones must be the never marrieds or especially childless ones (although we shouldn’t judge – there are understandable reasons for that too), the ones that were cheated on, or the ones that “played by the rules” (see above: were courted, moved in, stayed faithful, did the chores, worked outside of the home), but for some reason things didn’t work out and now they are much older with empty hands. In those women’s case, they are right to feel bitter. Because they were honestly cheated out of their biggest wealth (youth, beauty and fertility). In the meanwhile, the likes of Melania gave their youth and beauty to the highest bidder and cashed out. Is that how you want women to be?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Talha
  249. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    the likes of Melania gave their youth and beauty to the highest bidder and cashed out

    Overall, that’s better than giving same to the most consummate liar, which is what most women do.

  250. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I didn’t mean that there was something terribly wrong with that sort of a transaction, but is this what your typical Western man wants… hearing so often that they (especially the above mentioned mras) complain about how women only want status and money and not real love and companionship in a man.

  251. dcite says:
    @Anonymous

    “So you think younger women do not see older guys leaving their “old” wives and exchanging them for Melania types and don’t draw conclusions from that? You think that is somehow admirable and healthy for society and that’s how people should treat each other – as utility? Then don’t complain next time when you as a guy are only used as an ATM machine.”

    Yeah, appears so. Not one of the commenters recommending monogamy, life-long fidelity, religion, and children raised by two parents as mutually loyal as turtle doves (of which yours truly thoroughly approves, girl scout’s honor.) Hmm. Who do I vote for? The entertaining serial monogamist who wants to keep American business here and 30,000,000 huddled masses out, or do I vote for one of the smirking demons who want to ship business away and yet invite 30,000,000 huddled masses to America — to work and/or collect welfare (?!). hmmm. Who should it be? Trump’s spouse is the last thing we have to worry about, at least until she runs for president (her birth certificate could be forged. There’s precedent.)

    As for the bitter wimmin. Bitter is good sometimes for everyone. There’s a drink called bitters. Spa water is bitter; the sea is bitter. Yet most older people are not bitter, just relieved. The ones I like don’t get stuck in past bad luck and muck. There are few places darker than bars.

  252. @ anonymous

    My Trump/upgrade comment was mentioned as a possible reason for some of the bitterness I noticed in my observations. My post was related to “Unhappy Women” and how the recent election cycle seemed to ‘trigger’ a different sort nastiness that I had never seen in acquaintances as per my personal life. I am not putting forth the final word in the thousand year old ‘Vive la Difference’ debate.

    Personally I think that the cornerstone of a healthy society is a stable family unit and yes that would mean monogamy as a rule. Parents of my parent’s generation stayed together through all the inevitable bumps and grinds and entered the autumn of their years with financial stability, leisurely travel and enjoying their grandchildren.

    The problem however is that in my opinion the Powers That Be subverted society’s structure and this cornerstone got smashed out. Read Kollontai to see that this is no accident.

    I will go further and say that these powers saw that the weakest rampart in a stable society was through the fairer sex. It all started to go down the crapper with the suffragettes. It’s not hard to draw a timeline from that point if one keeps an open mind.

    In plain English, the man of the family went from Ward Cleaver to Homer Simpson. With that Buffy and Jody went to Justin and Mylie. The (real) men who would not submit became lone wolves and hence the bitterness and unhappiness on both sides.

    ” Just get me on TV and I’ll sweep the women’s vote” Teddy Kennedy to his strategists. Don’t you just love democracy?

    Cheers-

  253. @Timur The Lame

    @ Corvinus …. * long, reasoned post follows *

    I’ll keep saying it – the greatest waste of time at a keyboard since Solitaire was bundled with Win 3.0.

  254. “Women are meant to bear children and to be mothers. The communists did a good job of convincing women that their intended job (motherhood) is actually some kind of slavery… and they despise and belittle the only job that will make them happy.”

    Sayyid Qutb, Muslim Brotherhood theorist executed by Nasser:

    ” … [the] family provides the environment under which human values and morals develop and grow in the new generation; these values and morals cannot exist apart from the family unit. If, on the other hand, free sexual relationships and illegitimate children become the basis of a society, and if the relationship between man and woman is based on lust, passion and impulse, and the division of work is not based on family responsibility and natural gifts; if woman’s role is merely to be attractive, sexy and flirtatious, and if woman is freed from her basic responsibility of bringing up children; and if, on her own or under social demand, she prefers to become a hostess or a stewardess in a hotel or ship or air company, thus using her ability for material productivity rather than the training of human beings, because material production is considered to be more important, more valuable and more honourable than the development of human character, then such a civilisation is ‘backward’ from the human point of view …”

  255. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    Lame. You made a stupid comment about pnpulation replacement, the world’s population is rapidly screaming up to 8,000 million.

    Those of you from cultures wilfully playing demographic war games with it should be confined to your own places.

    That goes for the ‘Ummah’ as a whole, much of India, and most of Africa.

    Continuation will turn our good Earth, a miracle in what we know of the universe, into a desert and a charnel house.

  256. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    Hey Che,

    It was called a joke – but you seem to have a personal issue with me since I’m Muslim – so no problems.

    That’s fine – I can’t speak for other Muslims, but I’m not advocating any demographic war – I’m simply doing what comes naturally; finding a wife and having kids – I’m guessing villagers in Hadramaut are likewise doing the same and don’t have some ‘demographic war’ conspiracy on their minds. Somehow the Western nations have stopped making that a priority – not our fault, but I can see why Muslim presence in those countries can then seem threatening. But Japan and Korea don’t have that problem and are willfully de-populating themselves (maybe out of concern for the environment, I don’t know them well enough to say)…to each his own.

    I’m fine with Muslims being asked to leave back to Muslim-majority lands – I’m not begging the master to please, please let me stay like some ‘house nigger’. As yet, Western countries are having an internal debate about the matter so we’ll see how it pans out.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    , @Che Guava
  257. Talha says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for these insights – assuming you are a Western female (anonymity is such a funny thing on the Internet, you could be somebody that looks like George R. R. Martin and just knows a lot from his sisters’ experiences) :)

    I come from a culture where a man and woman are not alone together (when done right) before their wedding night; we go into the courtship with marriage as the intention, not an afterthought and the families are involved in order to look out for their children’s interest in the matter. So these insights are far better than what one gets from media; I had no clue that a woman ‘shacking up’ basically was her signal that she is serious enough for marriage. Men would do well to gain insight from that piece of information.

    If at that point, the woman is paying her “share” and provides her femininity and domesticity, for a young woman, that turns into a raw deal.

    Yup, I agree, if the man doesn’t commit by that point – totally raw deal for the woman – he is getting far more than his ancestors did who expected no “paying her ‘share’” from their women. Of course, they did expect respect and no playing ‘politics’ when sex was requested.

    I know that some women like it or prefer it that way (e.g., to keep options open or to keep their freedom)

    I think it’s these women that surrender their right to be bitter, when that’s the arrangement they preferred, but it just didn’t work the way they wanted it to.

    I believe JS was not talking about divorced women, I believe he was talking about bitter spinsters. But, after reading your insights, I have more sympathy for some of the women that may have gone through the experiences you mentioned.

    The Melania phenomenon is built into men’s framework, beautiful women are a marker of good genetic make up. We will never escape giving importance to it and women will never escape using it to their advantage. However, if that was the only thing that matter, you would never see beautiful women getting divorced, but many do, even in the prime of their youth.

    Is that how you want women to be?

    No.

    “A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her piety. Seek the one who is pious, may your hands be rubbed with dust* (i.e., may you prosper).” reported in Bukhari

    Again, thanks for the insights; may God grant you (if He hasn’t already) a spouse that is the coolness of your eyes and you for him.

    *An idiomatic expression of the Hijazi Arabs to mean “may you prosper/be successful”

  258. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    Sth.Korea has very depopulated rural areas. I think that starts with the war, over 60 years ago, I have a book I bought there years ago, it seems that people were pushed off the land and into cities as part of the US strategy.

    Japan is not the same, but in the countryside around many smaller regional towns, people are mainly old or school-aged. The latter often dream of going to the nearest big city. It is a shame.

    In both cases, vanity and unrealistic expectations among many women are big contributors to the low birth rates. Slobbish men, too. In our case, maybe too many men are plainly effeminate as well.

    However, I think that returning to a population of 50 million, as was the case when the Americans arrived to forcibly open the place up, is a good thing. It is sustainable, and enough to keep modern tech. going.

    Did you check photos of the Earth from space?

    Compare the earliest and recent, it is a horror.

    Having children is great, but being anthropomorphic locusts (like most of the Ummah, sub-Saharan Africa, and much of India) is not.

    Regards.

  259. Linh Dinh says: • Website

    After this article was linked to at Naked Capitalism, the responses show how unbridgeable our cultural divide is. Ideology distorts everything.

    frosty zoom
    December 16, 2016 at 8:41 am
    a little off the nc beat, but well worth a read:

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/unhappy-women/

    Romancing The Loan
    December 16, 2016 at 9:44 am
    Yikes. I like postcards from the end of america but this was just creepy – sexist dude assumptions projected onto an artsy faux-concerned shallow sweep over the lives of many different suicidally depressed women and the author’s bizarre conclusion that therefore feminism (and casual sex, and i guess birth control?) is wrong and women have to trap men into marriage with sex or they’ll kill themselves.

    This is…not how most people think, men or women, straight or gay. It’s nuts.

    Portia
    December 16, 2016 at 11:20 am
    nothing new here–it’s still the woman’s fault (like everything).

    frosty zoom
    December 16, 2016 at 12:04 pm
    i can see how you’d get that impression – yet i did not. more than anything, i just felt sad. i don’t think he’s blaming feminism; i get the impression that the hopelessness applies to men as well.

    people torn between what is “normal” now and what was “normal” then..

    Portia
    December 16, 2016 at 12:10 pm
    I got that impression from this:

    my drinking buddy Marty was liberated by feminism to pounce on 140 sniffable, lickable and squeezable trophies, while blowing up five marriages along the way.

    Encouraging heartlessness and dishonesty, this freedom to fornicate breeds cynicism, wrecks home and traumatizes children, but who wants to hear that? Sex is fun, rejuvenating, soul shaking, revenge, raid, exploration and carthasis, dude, while marriage anchors and delimits. Since husbands and fathers can be such tyrants, let’s just have playas. Pork and run is cool.

    frosty zoom
    December 16, 2016 at 12:23 pm
    again, i just felt sad.

    reslez
    December 16, 2016 at 3:40 pm
    Yet another conservative writer who blames feminism for what neoliberalism hath wrought.

    If you want to increase stable marriages, give people stable living wage jobs. Until then, the chaos of poverty is going to sink most long-term relationships. That’s not the fault of women or men, it’s the fault of the .001%. Witness how they blame the victims for their “choices”.

    fresno dan
    December 16, 2016 at 6:29 pm
    I agree entirely. The stable, family values (real family values – not contrived values for political points) midwest of 70, 60, 50 years ago. How did all those people become oxy contin and meth addicts and start dying prematurely??? DE-Industrialization – mere coincidence?????
    Why, having no job has nothing to do with it (sarc)
    We have decades of inner city squalor that shows what poverty does to people, and we have it happening to white people too now, and there are people whose definition of character is that their tax rate can never, ever pay for more than the special privileges they get and the monopolies they are granted….

    frosty zoom
    December 16, 2016 at 10:32 pm
    it’s funny: i read the linked article and just felt so bad that there was someone who knew so many people who had killed themselves. the parts where he tries to find reasons for the tragedy just flew by me..

    i suppose having lived so close to so much pain would bring someone to find reasons for it.

    i have read much of this author’s work and have found that he is keenly aware of the pain caused by the greed of so few.

    my lord, i feel like i’ve linked to rush limbaugh or something. mr. dinh has chronicled the plight of america’s downtrodden for years. perhaps he says things so bluntly or, as you feel, misguidedly because he lives with these people and that is how they talk.

    Lee
    December 16, 2016 at 11:16 am
    Thanks for this. I am ambivalent toward the author’s point of view. But then, I am ambivalent about much that has to do with the human heart. As a meditation on loneliness, sex detached from emotional attachment, and suicide it is quite compelling. But is having a successful, lifelong romantic relationship the only answer? Surely it is for many but not necessarily for all.

    frosty zoom
    December 16, 2016 at 12:07 pm
    of course there are many paths to happiness. i think the author is lamenting the demise of one of the most vital of these pathways.

    …………………..

    It’s interesting to see several of these readers become defensive and dismissive immediately. My article points out how liberated sexual mores have enabled many men to behave even worse towards women. With concrete examples, I show how they use then dump them.

    It must have hit too close to home for Portia, for she lashes back with a particularly idiotic response.

    And it’s sad that frosty zoom had to almost apologize:

    “my lord, i feel like i’ve linked to rush limbaugh or something. mr. dinh has chronicled the plight of america’s downtrodden for years. perhaps he says things so bluntly or, as you feel, misguidedly because he lives with these people and that is how they talk.”

    Yes, there are economic factors to the breakdown of the family, but poverty alone does not explain it. Throughout history, many extremely poor societies managed to maintain the family and survived thanks to its strength.

    With a strong family, people can survive even the worst conditions. After the end of the Vietnam War, hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese wives did not abandon their imprisoned husbands but brought food and medicines to them for years, despite being near starvation themselves.

  260. @Timur The Lame

    I generally agree and am in the same situation.

    I won’t say that life hasn’t had some frustrations, especially when one considers the ideals that one has grown up with and the disappointments that one faces, that has ultimately made me yearn for a more traditional world. But its hardly an uniform result of a “disastrous life experience” that makes me feel that way.

    That said, I’m not hugely in fan of how Trump operates but better him than any feminist icon.

  261. @Che Guava

    Can’t deny though that as silly and frustrating as it might seem, they seem to be playing by the long-term rules of winning by democracy. This suggests that if anything, that they are actually playing the game correctly while the rest of us are paying the short-term material game.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  262. Che Guava says:
    @Talha

    BTW, as I said, I had an extremely bad (life-destroyiing) experience from Muslims when overseas many years ago. It seems to be typical.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @jacques sheete
  263. @Linh Dinh

    Well, how we see the world is tinted by the lens we were. For the liberals, those lens are pretty damn nice funhouse mirrors.

  264. @Linh Dinh

    I would argue that the disintegration of the family and community goes much farther than its final iteration in the destruction of nuclear family. The extended family was the first to fall, not to mention the bounds of community and friendship that once existed in a culture. We are probably as a generation, entirely mentally ill and have been defeated by our own greed.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
    , @Linh Dinh
  265. Corvinus says:
    @Anonymous Nephew

    “Marriage is the only solemn contract which one sex (and only one) gets cash and prizes for breaking. Usually breaking a contract attracts penalties, but the penalties instead go to the party who’s stuck to the contract.”

    You peddle this False News Story wherever you go. Roughly 95% of all divorces end up with both parties having a 50-50 split in assets and child custody. I understand that you experienced a brutal breakup yourself, but you do not need to be that bitter. I suggest you read the self-help books authored by Mike Cernovich.

    • Replies: @dcite
  266. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Daniel Chieh

    Hi Daniel Chieh,

    I just find it ridiculous, and sadly amusing, that Portia sees my piece as an indictment of women, when it is in fact extremely sympathetic towards women, and not as some abstraction either. The ones depicted here are women I’ve known. If I was an embittered man who resent women, I doubt they would bother talking to me.

    Linh

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  267. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Daniel Chieh

    As for “the bonds of community and friendship that once existed in a culture,” we can’t even talk to each other any more, and I mean this literally. There are few places to meet, and almost all social spaces have been made inhospitable by endless televised sports, loud music and, now, the always intrusive smart phone. Since we can’t think, can’t look at each other in the face and can’t hear each other, we’re entirely at our masters’ mercy. We aren’t just atomized, we’ve been broken up inwardly. Shattered.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
  268. Corvinus says:
    @Timur The Lame

    “Though your handle would not indicate this you are most likely a Gurrlll…”

    Sorry to disappoint, but I’m a straight white man.

    “A real woman would know that men and women do not viscerally think the same way.

    That’s your first mistake right there. “A real woman” comes from your own definition as to what females ought to appear and behave. Nothing inherently wrong with having your own personal thoughts on what is the ideal female, but your version is merely an opinion.

    “I am between snowstorms so I cannot nor will not do a point by point rebuttal but wish to state that my post was an observation. My observation.”

    Exactly, YOUR observation, which does not necessarily mean it is a universal phenomenon or entirely accurate.

    “All this envy of Trump (by men) “confirmation bias”, same physical decline problems (meaning that throughout history men only had their looks to catch women) and Roissy, Roosh references ( whoever it or they are) reveal a dogmatic and indoctrinated stance on your part in my opinion.”

    And somehow your position is NOT influenced by dogma and indoctrination?

    “Your rebuttal actually supported the observations I had in my original post.”

    Just because you made this statement does not mean it is accurate or true. In what specific ways did my rebuttal allegedly support your observations?

    “It all started to go down the crapper with the suffragettes. It’s not hard to draw a timeline from that point if one keeps an open mind.”

    It is amazing to me that some men still believe that since women received the right to vote that American society began to politically and socially break down. Perhaps you ought to follow your own advice and keep this in mind–powerful men helped women to secure liberties previously denied to them. Nations evolve. Nations move forward.

    “In plain English, the man of the family went from Ward Cleaver to Homer Simpson.”

    That is a wild generalization. They were degenerates and cads in the 1950′s. I don’t know why some men and women insist that this decade was Disney on steroids.

    “The (real) men who would not submit became lone wolves and hence the bitterness and unhappiness on both sides.”

    It would be most helpful if you would offer criteria as to what is a “real man”. Does not each man make their own determination as to what is manly or other than manly? Or must they ask for your approval as to whether they are effeminate or masculine?

  269. Corvinus says:
    @Christopher Marlowe

    “Modern women bought into the HOAX of feminism and are paying the price. Women are meant to bear children and to be mothers.”

    Men and women bought into what is the modern version of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They both choose to remain single, or marry inside or outside of their race, or have children.

    “(and which many only get because of government interference and marxist tinkering).”

    Thankfully, you used to be a teacher. Did you make these reference points when telling little girls that they should forgo their dream of becoming a teacher or a nurse to become a stay at home mother?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  270. dcite says:
    @Corvinus

    I’ve wondered about that too. Surely divorce laws reflect current reality. The man paying for everything– I haven’t seen that in years, anyway. In most states the property division is 50/50 and I know of cases where the man kept the house and the woman moved out. Not so rare. The child custody issue may be an instance where the man is unfairly treated, but even here custody is usually joint these days, and has been since the 1980s in my state. I don’t know. Maybe some states are stuck in 1950s divorce laws?

  271. @ corvinos

    Wow. Simply wow. And you declare yourself to be a straight male? I call bullshit on you.

    Even an amateur statement analyst could see (read) that you have a program to push. Maybe you are just an innocent asshole.

    Give me some meat Hondo.

    Cheers_

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Daniel Chieh
  272. @Corvinus

    Not that its really worth replying to you, but there’s a reason why NRX rejects the entire notion of blank statism. And frankly, the notion that everyone is pursuing their dreams thanks to glorious modernity is quite entirely a lie. I’ve had the fortune or otherwise to have been around quite a few women, many which felt that they had been basically bullied into what a modern version of women “should be.”

    One of my closest friends is a young twenty-something woman who said that all she had wanted was to be a mother with children, but then the world failed her and forced her to “take care of herself.” Her bitterness is directed at men sometimes, at modernity sometimes, at her family sometimes and at other women sometimes, but she is anything but happy. I’ve known her since she was a teenager and in years since, I know that she has a genuine desire to “be dependent” to this day but feels that she isn’t allowed to be.

    The reality is that we’re social animals that peer pressure and bully each other, one way or another, and no degree of ideology will change that. Did tradition work for everyone? Certainly not. But will modernity work for everyone? Or even more people? I’m doubtful, and I’m equally doubtful that there is any less peer pressure for the new norms.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Art
  273. @RadicalCenter

    Well, thanks for the toughtful reply, but I’m already an old guy, 59. But I still operate. I have sufficient fulfillment. All this has been going on since my “I’m not haaapy” wife hit the road in 92, so to speak. I got to see my daughter lots, probably more after the divorce than when I was working overtime to support her spending, my wife’s that is. She dabbled in alternate lifestyles for a bit and then married some poor bastard and birthed a kid with epilepsy. Tragic for her, close call for me, although he has spotty genetics. Strangely, my daughter married her college sweetheart and is already with child as they say, at 24. THAT makes me feel old. They make tons of dough and are having a ball, especially after they moved out of DC.

    Released into Bill Clinton’s Washington in 1992, life was a real party, work was loaded with broads, a single guy with plenty of dough, motorcycles and handguns was a pretty hot ticket for cute young Jewish chicks right out of college and I took full advantage. DC was teeming with them and this was before the age of obesity. Every woman in Washington was unleashing her inner Monica Lewinsky, ya shoulda been there at the time. A truly disgraceful time for the morals of relations between men and women, heh. I got no complaints, lots of good memories and few regrets. Plenty of talent here in Boston, although my targets are 40-55-ish and the market delivers. Cry not for me, Argentina.

    Merry Christmas.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  274. @Ivy

    Jim could do worse than attending church services regularly.

    Thanks, Ivy, but I’m pretty sure I’d burst into flames upon crossing the threshold. In the phone business, there are many churches in the customer base. They ask if I’m single, and tell me about the wonderful singles’ groups they have. I ask if they have female ministers/pastors or counselors to men and if they do, I wouldn’t set foot in the place, which is pretty much every church. I’ll fix their phones, I won’t worship in a hellhole such as would allow feminist ministers (the only kind there are).

    I have a very easy relationship with God. He doesn’t mess with me and in return, I’m kind to old Veterans, little kids, old women, my family. I ask nothing of Him and he asks of me so little.

    We’re even, right? The Hippocratic Oath of life, first rule, do no harm. It’s all I have to offer. And Merry Christmas to YOU sir. Assuming Ivy is a fella. If not, pardon me, Maam.

  275. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “Not that its really worth replying to you, but there’s a reason why NRX rejects the entire notion of blank statism.”

    Yes, I am familiar with the work of Moldberg, Nick Land, and Brett Stevens.

    “And frankly, the notion that everyone is pursuing their dreams thanks to glorious modernity is quite entirely a lie.”

    Quite entirely a lie, huh. Care to elaborate?

    “I’ve had the fortune or otherwise to have been around quite a few women, many which felt that they had been basically bullied into what a modern version of women “should be.””

    And I’ve been in situations where men and women have been badgered into thinking that their own personal decisions is a death blow to Western Civilization.

    “One of my closest friends is a young twenty-something woman who said that all she had wanted was to be a mother with children, but then the world failed her and forced her to “take care of herself.”

    There is nothing stopping her, except herself, from working toward that noble endeavor. Sounds like you and her are playing the victim card.

    “But will modernity work for everyone? Or even more people? I’m doubtful, and I’m equally doubtful that there is any less peer pressure for the new norms.”

    So are you going to step back and not use peer pressure yourself to enable men and women to pursue their own goals in this modern age, realizing that it is futile?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  276. Corvinus says:
    @Timur The Lame

    “And you declare yourself to be a straight male? I call bullshit on you.”

    The train is fine, Timur, the train is fine.

    “Even an amateur statement analyst could see (read) that you have a program to push.”

    Again, is not your position influenced by dogma and indoctrination? Please, share us your wisdom as to what you believe constitutes a “real” man and woman. Enlighten us on how the world ought to work from your perspective.

  277. @Linh Dinh

    I just find it ridiculous, and sadly amusing, that Portia sees my piece as an indictment of women

    Naw, you’re in the clear, Linh, it’s we judgemental pricks that actually have to try to commune with these women you write up (and their ilk up and down the scale) that form the indictment.

    Considering the Loony-Toon human flotsam and jetsam you have to work with, I’d say you’re more understanding than your readers towards these types. Bit of an empath you are. I’d like to see an indict, err, a story on the end result of all this, the slags of 45-60, childless, man-less, but with cats. Lovely to know if you could get the truth if working for a man in a cubicle was better than being a wife to a man and having children.

    Merry Christmas, if that’s your thing. I enjoy your stuff..

  278. @Timur The Lame

    Nah, as Linh Dinh notes, its all about the optics. Corvinus is essentially a typical liberal with a religion that equates maximization of individual instant gratification with societal happiness. As a belief, its a popular meme and like many other religions, it has some degree of truth in it.

    As with many other religions, however, the ideology often surpasses the reach of its usability and it makes universal proclamations when it should be more situational.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  279. @Truth

    Chicks from Harvard my own age. Chicks at Harvard are FORTY years younger than I, I’m not interested. You don’t realize what a fossil I am.

    Everything else, I stand by.

  280. @Corvinus

    We will stop using peer pressure to gauge our conscious and unconscious thoughts when we cease to be human and cease to need social approval. That’s not happening. That’s not going to happen.

    Simultaneously, employing ideology and relying on policy that assumes that we’re such islands is equally fallacious. We don’t exist as islands, our decisions are not made as islands, and ultimately, as Schopenhauer says, “Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.” Our societies(and diver other influences) pressure people to be one way or another, such that such individual will is as I see it, ultimately but a facade at best and a sad tool used to blame people when their happiness is subverted by forces well beyond their actual individual control.

    Not much more to add to that. You’re clearly positive on the atomization of the individual and the very shattering of the self, which works for your theology.

    Good for you. I applaud you in your dedication to your religion, and have some degree of admiration for anyone who is a true believer.

    My experiences and life in other societies have merely led me to other conclusions.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  281. @Truth

    May he who has not sinned, cast…

    What sin? That’s just what they are, I never miss the little details because it’s the little things that get you killed.

  282. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “Corvinus is essentially a typical liberal with a religion that equates maximization of individual instant gratification with societal happiness. As a belief, its a popular meme and like many other religions, it has some degree of truth in it.”

    First, I’m not a liberal. I’m an American white male who is able to make my own decisions about politics, race, and social phenomenon.

    Second, liberalism (and conservatism) are NOT religions. Rather, they are political ideologies. But, the NRx crowd tend to slap that label on it and hope it sticks.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  283. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    Is it a coincidence that Cat Steven’s art died as he embraced Islam? Your religion is stultifying.

    • Replies: @Talha
  284. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “We will stop using peer pressure to gauge our conscious and unconscious thoughts when we cease to be human and cease to need social approval. That’s not happening. That’s not going to happen.”

    So, like every other movement, NRxer’s will embrace shaming tactics, outright ridicule, and the use of force to promote its brand of ideology to the unwashed masses. Great to know.

    “Not much more to add to that. You’re clearly positive on the atomization of the individual and the very shattering of the self, which works for your theology.”

    The individual need not be subjected to your brand of collectivism–an expression of disdain for democratic ideas and a return to a rigid social order led by an aristocracy. Sounds cultish to me.

    “Good for you. I applaud you in your dedication to your religion, and have some degree of admiration for anyone who is a true believer.”

    It is other than admirable to double down on stupidity. Assuredly, a liberal, a conservative, a communist, or even an NRxer may religiously adhere to the principles of their ideology. But liberalism (and conservatism) clearly fails to meet the criteria as an organized religion.

    Bruce Charlton notably stated liberalism has only temporary idols, any of whom may be vilified and demonized at a moment’s notice, with the idols of SWJ’s as other than saints. In essence, liberalism functions as a club. Using his logic, the Dark Enlightenment would also fall under this description.

  285. Hacienda says:

    Very apropos of this article:

    Southeast Asians finally growing a spine?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/12/17/philippines-duterte-us-over-aid-bye-bye-america/95557384/

    Americans are a social cancer. Best that Asians acknowledge this both to Americans and to other Asians and to the greater world.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Corvinus
  286. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Women’s magazines are pure rot. They put horrible ideas into women’s minds about how one should live life and the goals one should have. I spent years reading Seventeen and then Glamour magazine, always thinking that the next issue I’d receive would finally be a good one. It never was. Every issue I ever received was a letdown, filled with disappointing, unhelpful articles and ugly clothes.

  287. Talha says:
    @BB753

    Hey BB753,

    No coincidence…it never died, it transformed. He shifted over to doing a lot of nasheeds; his work is well known in the Muslim community world-wide. He also helped discover and launch the careers of many other munshids from Malaysia to South Africa. You don’t care for that stuff, so it’s understandable that it’s not on your radar.

    Your religion is stultifying.

    Likely neither a Madonna nor a Michael Jackson would have sprung up in the Muslim world – but that’s only the goal if one wants to make it so.

    https://www.amazon.com/Mamluk-Splendour-Sultans-Islamic-Mediterranean/dp/1874044376

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @BB753
  288. Talha says:
    @Che Guava

    Hey Che,

    As I’ve said before, I empathize with you and find it deplorable that you suffered at the hands of morons who share my religion. That sucks and I hope you are granted the patience to recover from it.

    That said, a woman can also choose to blame all men for the fact that she was raped or the people of Nanjing to elect to hate all Japanese people in perpetuity for what happened to them; while that is understandable, that is contrary to what I’v been taught – but, to each his own.

    I have great relations with my neighbors; my Romanian neighbor sent his sons to plow my driveway because a day ago I went to do that for him. My son and I also went last week to help plow the sidewalks for the Catholic Church next to our mosque before their Sunday congregation. This is my experience with people of other faiths, thus it forms my world view.

    I think that returning to a population of 50 million…is a good thing

    Then effeminate and obese men and narcissistic women should be applauded in Japan. The problem is not necessarily putting the plane into a steep nose dive, but rather the assurance that one will be able to pull up before hitting the ground.

    The depletion of the earth’s resources at the current rate is deplorable; I can assure you that a single urban Japanese dweller consumes around the same amount of resources per year as half of a small village in the Sahel area of Mauritania. The Earth can handle many more people living simple lives as the latter – no so the former.

    Peace.

  289. @Hacienda

    As Peter Thiel notes, the limitations of the West are becoming more obvious to us despite the frantic protestations of leftists. So yes, we’re gradually growing a brand of resistance from Westernization, though our ultimate success will depend on whether we can also forge an alternative form of modernization. Signs are pointing to yes, but the verdict is still out.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Hacienda
  290. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “As Peter Thiel notes, the limitations of the West are becoming more obvious to us despite the frantic protestations of leftists.”

    Yes, to a small group of people who desire to install an aristocratic form of government, with any and all dissent to be brutally put down, with limitations on individual liberties. No thank you.

    “So yes, we’re gradually growing a brand of resistance from Westernization, though our ultimate success will depend on whether we can also forge an alternative form of modernization. Signs are pointing to yes, but the verdict is still out.”

    Feel free to engage in that effort. Just leave the rest of us out of your political experiments.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Hibernian
  291. Corvinus says:
    @Hacienda

    “Americans are a social cancer.”

    That is an anti-white statement. Please repent for your transgression against Caucasians.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  292. @Corvinus

    So sorry to brutally oppress you by trying something different from what must be evidently the ideal form of Western universalism which has priorities that are surely the same for us as well as anyone else. If only we listened to the religion of liberalization, it would surely be an utopian existence everywhere. Please, teach us more, so that we will never need to question or engage in any wrongthink.

    As I said, your dedication to your religion is quite inspiring.

    As for the last sentence, I believe it echoes very well for yourself and what your fellow faithful, indeed.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  293. Art says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Did tradition work for everyone? Certainly not. But will modernity work for everyone? Or even more people? I’m doubtful, and I’m equally doubtful that there is any less peer pressure for the new norms.

    Thirty is the old twenty where people began their adult lives – nowadays most young people cannot afford to marry and have a family before thirty. The problem is what happens to them in those ten years. Drugs, sex, and rock and roll dissipate emotions. Ten years of ups and downs with the opposite sex interferes with their capacity for closeness. Most survive somewhat hardened but intact – but many don’t. Of course the poorest have ten more years of the worst society has to offer.

    Pre the sixty’s liberal revolution marring at twenty worked for most all. It was done – it is possible. But I do not see things coming back to what they were.

    Peace — Art

  294. @ Corvinus,

    Reading your comments since my last post it seems that I had misjudged you. Good for you and your take on existence. Personally I think that you are so smart that you are outsmarting yourself. I still have difficulty seeing you as a male. I mean who else would refer to themselves as a ‘straight male’ in a fluid sentence when questioned about their gender on a blog. The normal and honest response would be something along the lines of “I am a man’ or something equivalent.

    Maybe you are a snowflake or a millenial retard so who am I to judge.

    You ask me about what I think is a real man and a real woman? I suppose the only way to answer that would be to refer to the yin and yang. Look into the ancient texts about this philosophy and you will uncover great wisdom.

    Modern times have strayed from universal truths.

    Cheers-

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  295. Hibernian says:
    @Talha

    “Likely neither a Madonna nor a Michael Jackson would have sprung up in the Muslim world …”

    They’re underground as they used to be in our culture.

  296. Hibernian says:
    @Corvinus

    Second, liberalism (and conservatism) are NOT religions. Rather, they are political ideologies.

    Could’ve fooled me.

  297. Hibernian says:
    @Corvinus

    “…an aristocratic form of government, with any and all dissent to be brutally put down, with limitations on individual liberties.”

    We already have that.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  298. Hacienda says:
    @Corvinus

    Venn diagram this. All Americans aren’t white, all whites aren’t Americans, and all Caucasians aren’t white. So it is neither an anti-white statement or anti-Caucasian statement. You need to repent for all the illogic you repeatedly gunk up this site with.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  299. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    I read up on hasheeds.. For Pete’s sake, most Muslim scholarsp prohibit the use of musical instruments! How is that not backward and stultifying?

    • Replies: @Talha
  300. Hacienda says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    You seem to have survivor bias. IOW, the opinion of those still surviving Westernization and able to express themselves in the West’s vernacular. I’m far more moved by those who have disappeared or are currently buried underneath Westernization. They are the increasing vital force that is the true resistance. And their numbers getting proportionately larger every passing year!

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  301. Talha says:
    @BB753

    Hey BB753,

    Yes, the majority opinion is one that prohibits use of musical instruments; though percussion instruments have generally been exempted.

    Stultifying? Yes, in the sense that it is indeed a restriction. But the Muslim world has also had a restriction on the use of images of living things and it made zero difference in the volume of art it was able to produce. If anything, it only guided art in a specific direction; use of geometric patterns, calligraphy, etc.:

    http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/otto1/hd_otto1.htm

    The desire for humanity to produce art and beauty cannot be suppressed – it can be guided however and we have a rich tradition of nasheed going back centuries. The Qasidah Burdah is a nasheed/poem going back to the 13th century – it is still one of the most popular songs sung in the Muslim world from Senegal to Malaysia in its various local forms:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Burda

    Backwards? Well, that’s an opinion – we’ll just have to disagree. I am willing to concede if you can present evidence that the sudden disappearance of pianos and electric guitars would likewise lead to the end of indoor plumbing and the internet. Though men like Biruni, Khwarezmi and Ibn al-Haytham really didn’t have a problem running their scientific/medical experiments and writing about them while troubadours were wandering around Medieval Europe with harps in hand – so I don’t know what one has to do with the other.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @BB753
  302. The Nomad says:

    While I enjoy Linh Dinh’s writing, the idea that women are unhappy as a direct result of the sexual liberation aspect of feminism is a bit simplistic. It also ignores the negative changes that men have undergone that contribute to this unhappiness.

    First I agree that women do not need to be sexually liberal in order to self actualize or achieve independence. Economic freedom was all that was necessary. Once women no longer needed to be dependant on anyone to have a roof over their heads, they could be more circumspect about the man they would like to marry or when to do so. Feminism was trying to solve a problem that did not need solving. However, the negative influence of feminism is merely an indication of a deeper issue.

    Feminism would have been nothing but inane, harmless bluster if not for the existence of a coercive centralized state which can be used by motivated individuals to promote their own agendas. Feminists (and their fellow progressives) have taken over the academic apparatus and the rest is history. The state has invaded almost every aspect of our economic and personal lives (including the sexual) and thoroughly indoctrinated a lot of women through the school system, media and other areas. The increasing power of the state has come at a tremendous cost: the marginalization of the family, community, church and other private, voluntary cultural institutions.

    Men have also been badly affected by the state school system. The school system has been on a mission to feminize and infantilize men and swarms of them are nothing more than neurotic, emotional balls of neediness and insecurity. Critical thinking (one of men’s strengths) has been all but erased by the time they leave the school system. Men like this are not reliable long term partners or candidates for marriage. The pickings are slim for both men and women.

    Marriage and avoiding having kids out of wedlock will not solve the problem. For a marriage to work, certain cultural and moral values need to exist. Long-term thinking, honesty, individual responsibility, commitment, sacrifice, self-determination and compromise are a few. These are not values promoted by a centralized state interested in turning everyone into mindless automatons. When a culture finds state-mandated welfare and socialized healthcare morally acceptable. When a culture views being taken care of as a right to be demanded from others and not a responsibility to oneself, this is what happens. With this sort of value system, marriage is entered into frivolously and discarded casually. Adult children will not be matured by simply getting married or avoiding having kids out of wedlock. There are a lot of financially successful middle class couples I know who got married, had a kid and divorced within a few years.

    The removal of the state’s pernicious influence on our culture and morals will allow the family, church (and other private associations that provide one with a proper, stable cultural and moral foundation) to regain the influence they have lost. This will lead to a repair of the damage to our cultural and moral values. Only then will women AND men lead more healthy, productive and happy lifestyles.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  303. @Talha

    Do these women also try to ‘catch a guy’ at church?

    I don’t know what their other tactics are, and I really don’t even wanna think about it! :)

  304. Men Are Jealous of the Love Button. Button, Button…Who’s got the button? Nothing on Earth has rankled, annoyed and befuddled men more than one exclusively female attribute. All bragging of male superiority is hollow and silly when a certain physical reality is placed on the scales of inherent worth. The world has suffered thousands of years of conflict, armies have moved, Cathedrals have been erected and multitudes denied happiness because one biological quirk has rendered to females a power denied males.more

    https://robertmagill.wordpress.com/2016/10/07/the-abrahamists-et-alii-vs-the-clitoris-or/

  305. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    Well, the sudden disappearence of the West and itse poples would certainly lead to the death of indoor plumbing and the Internet in your Muslim paradises.

    • Replies: @Talha
  306. @Che Guava

    Those of you from cultures wilfully playing demographic war games with it should be confined to your own places.

    That goes for the ‘Ummah’ as a whole, much of India, and most of Africa.

    When I was a kid, “Christians” played that game in the USA, and I know of some places where “Christians” still openly advocate and practice it as well.

  307. @Che Guava

    BTW, as I said, I had an extremely bad (life-destroyiing) experience from Muslims when overseas many years ago.

    I hope you didn’t go there as an aggressor…

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  308. Talha says:
    @BB753

    Possibly in some areas, and likely not in other areas – have you seen what the skyline looks like in Kuala Lumpur? Do you really think Malaysia would completely tank without White People around – given that they have fairly good relations with their advanced East Asian neighbors.

    What does disappearance of Western people have to do with musical instruments?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @BB753
  309. Corvinus says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “So sorry to brutally oppress you by trying something different from what must be evidently the ideal form of Western universalism which has priorities that are surely the same for us as well as anyone else.”

    Your merry band of NRxer’s have yet to oppress anyone. Continue on with your little intellectual group. I wait with bated breath if and when your ideology becomes a reality.

    “As I said, your dedication to your religion is quite inspiring.”

    You sound like a four-year-old who isn’t getting is way. One more time…liberalism is NOT a religion, it’s an ideology.

  310. Corvinus says:
    @Hibernian

    “Second, liberalism (and conservatism) are NOT religions. Rather, they are political ideologies. Could’ve fooled me.”

    It’s ok to admit that you’ve been fooled by the Coalition of the Right Fringe Groups when it comes to this characterization. The challenge is to not get bamboozled in the future. Are you up to the task?

    “We already have that.”

    No, we have a representative democracy. Oh dear, you have been indoctrinated by the CRFG.

  311. Corvinus says:
    @Hacienda

    The statement was “Americans are a social cancer”. Americans include whites. Had the commenter said “Non-white Americans are a social cancer”, then he would be clear in his intentions. But he never made that stipulation. Thus, the statement is characterized as “anti-white”. Why are you coming to his defense?

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  312. Corvinus says:
    @Timur The Lame

    “The normal and honest response would be something along the lines of “I am a man’ or something equivalent.”

    My response was completely normal. How odd for you to think otherwise.

    “You ask me about what I think is a real man and a real woman? I suppose the only way to answer that would be to refer to the yin and yang. Look into the ancient texts about this philosophy and you will uncover great wisdom.”

    In other words, you don’t really know. You make such grandiose statements, and when asked to clarify, you defer to “universal truths”. Next time, offer up your own analysis rather than take the easy way out.

  313. @The Nomad

    I believe Lindh indicated that its hardly as simple as villainizing any one concept or movement. Its the disruption of the entire sense of family and community that generally poisons the happiness of both sexes. I have a lot more materially now and am technically quite wealthy but I was far happier, for example, when I was a mostly unrecognized member of a larger community once, even if I was only appreciated by certain members of that community.

    Being part of something greater than myself and appreciated for what felt like a long tradition of my family’s skills rooted me in a sense of timeless beauty. No number of cars or houses will give the same sense.

  314. Hacienda says:
    @Corvinus

    When I say Americans are a social cancer, I mean Americans no longer have the means to directly, naturally express themselves with each other. The kind of natural communication that creates family, extended family, settled communities. That’s my sense as a Korean-American. I could be wrong. Possibly whites still retain this ability amongst themselves. But my eyes keep telling me American community and white-American community is a myth except for the priviledged.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  315. @Hacienda

    I think that you’ll be pleased to see the amount of condemnation that the “white left” get on Chinese social media and the general pulse of the population, then. That said, the ultimate determinant of the success of a culture is the satisfaction that it can bring its population and its ability to compensate for foreign influence here.

    I think that its promising that East Asia generally has avoided the same degree of democracy even when nominally so, with a culture and systems that rely on personal contact and guanxi enough that it cannot be easily subverted, but there’s always the concern of a certain number of blindly pro-Western liberals.

    They’re a minority, however, and there’s a significant and dominant brand of scholarship in political science here rejecting modern Western policies. The epilogue of Daniel Bell’s book “The China Model”, for example, has a beautiful little exchange with him trying to advance Western progressive values to a female Party member multiple times.

    She finds them plainly ridiculous, drawing on both history and Confucianism, and shoots him down each time. He lamely ends almost every attempt with “oh, I guess its more controversial than I thought.”

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  316. @ Corvinus

    I don’t think that you realized that you just gave me the biggest compliment possible in cyberspace in that you asked me for my personal opinion in leu of universal wisdom.

    The perfect male ? Me of course.

    The perfect female? Well, for my taste blonde, nice big hooters (not too big), carpet matches the drapes, has that fawning interested look on her face when I tell her about my boring day, laughs and giggles at my corny jokes and crowns the evening with a thunderous fake orgasm as I
    barely manage to give her the royal favour due to alcohol abuse.

    Ahh, heaven.

    Cheers-

  317. @mistah charley, ph.d.

    One of the best and truest comments all year. Exactly right. I finally have all three and wish it for everyone.

  318. @Jim Christian

    Man we shoulda hung out, though I wasn’t getting around as much as you ;)

    I lived in DC about five years, not quite a decade later. Did not like the vibe there overall, nor the weather. I figure, if you’re gonna deal with such onerous taxes, housing costs, traffic congestion, phony people, and hostile Africans, you’re better off in LA. Beautiful weather, wider variety of cuisines, more to do, and if you’re single a wider variety of women.

    Glad you have your daughter and now grandchild already, nothing can compete with that. I’m going to resume supervision of the asylum here, where we are barely keeping up with a baby, a toddler, and a little kid. Loving it, when we are not getting frazzled, and even then we are grateful to have them.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  319. Truth says:

    Man we shoulda hung out, though I wasn’t getting around as much as you ;)

    Big Jimbini and the Radster terrorizing the hipster bars together in DuPont Circle. Man, what an epic BroMance that would have been.

    I can just see the $1,200 hotel suites, midget Vietnamese hookers, and exotic African livestock now!

  320. @jacques sheete

    I don’t know if there is a pattern, but there is a women in my family who works caring for the elderly, and also does a lot of charity work. But in her personal life she is extremely caustic and bitter, constantly bad-mouthing her (second) husband. Not very happy. She is one of the ‘women should have it all’ types (be a mother, successful businesswomen etc), and has all standard left-wing opinions about everything.

    Maybe there is a connection between being a do-gooder in theory and profession, and being an awful human being in private life. The self-righteousness covering up the filthy interior. (Matthew 23:27-28)

  321. Unhappy women?

    Suicidology reports 42,773 suicides in the USA in 2014, and 33,113 were committed by males. That’s 77.4 percent, or 3.43 males who killed themselves for every female.

    http://www.suicidology.org/Portals/14/docs/Resources/FactSheets/2014/2014datapgsv1b.pdf

    Yet, most of society is more than happy to shame men who point out that it has failed to address the serious issues that MEN face. NOBODY wants to know why all these men feel they have it so bad that death seems like the better option.

    Because men are held accountable for their actions, and therefore should have “manned up” instead of taking the “cowards way out.” When it’s women on the other end, however, they must have been the victims of unfair expectations, a callous and cruel society, and, of course, men.

    The other piece of the puzzle is that divorce — which is initiated by women 70 percent of the time — more than doubles the likelihood that a man will commit suicide, but has no identified link to female suicides.

    http://jech.bmj.com/content/54/4/254.abstract

    Yet we are to believe that all these “wonderful” women are taking their relationship failures so much harder than all the supposedly cold and heartless men out there? Bruh, come on.

  322. @RadicalCenter

    RC,
    Didn’t actually live IN DC, I worked there many days, then like all the other White people, before sundown, did the hot foot out to the suburbs. Our customers were all over the region, many in DC, law firms, political lobbies by the hundreds, like that. My escape was to Fairfax City, a small town surrounded by enormous Fairfax County. I grew up there, returned when I got out of the Navy and into the phone business when they split up Bell. Depending on which company I worked for at the time (there were many), my office was in Bethesda, Tyson’s Corner, Potomac, Md. Eh, they developed the region out to the Blue Ridge Mountains, it’s a hellhole of traffic today. So I moved up to the Boston region having discovered a surprising lack of diversity here North of NYC, a lovely contrast from the DC region. Down there diversity is everywhere now, looks like Pakistan in one area, San Salvadore/Tijuana, with the crime of Rio in another area. And of course everywhere there, business is polluted with Indians, Muslims and Chinese, all pretending not to speak English while they attempted to pick your pocket. But until it became a smelting pot, that region 1982-2005 was a hot ticket, vibrant, low-crime (outside DC and Prince George’s County), high tech. Post Katrina’s housing crash really revealed the rot and that’s when they started throwing open the gates to H1Bs.

    I moved up here in 2009 and never looked back. Every now and again I pass through and it’s even worse. Even my kid and her husband got fed up with the COL and moved down toward Chesapeake and they only go back for friends’ weddings and the like.

    I passed through California via San Diego in the service, didn’t like it for any particular good reason, maybe I missed trees. Cheers.

  323. Che Guava says:
    @jacques sheete

    Absolutely not, and the attackers were fake refugees, which seems to be the usual invasion pattern.

  324. Corvinus says:
    @Hacienda

    “I mean Americans no longer have the means to directly, naturally express themselves with each other. The kind of natural communication that creates family, extended family, settled communities.”

    Yes, our society heavily relies on emails, texts, and Instagrams. But that does not mean that this artificial means via technology no longer enables a person to “naturally express themselves”–the means by which has simply changed.

  325. Hacienda says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I like the white left, like I enjoy watching “The Three Stooges”, “Laurel and Hardy”.
    Long live the white left.

  326. Chukhed says:
    @Anonymous

    @Anonymous

    You sound like a chick i used to date. She demanded i marry her after 6 years of her disrespect, cheating, backstabbing, alcoholism, and abuse. Of course i didnt marry her, she was a psycho.. She even abused her dog. That is not a woman i want to spend my life with. I stuck around for so long hoping she would get better, and she just got worse. I even gave her an Anger Management book that she took as an insult.

    She ended up getting knocked up by some fat smelly loser years ago, and i hear she’s lonely and miserable now. Maybe she is playing the victim just like you. You want the man to work full time to pay for everything while coming home and splitting the chores. Sounds like a great deal for you, but a terrible one for him.

    The other women i had LTRs with {at least 4 others} werent much better. Lying, cheating, demands, abuse, etc. Men like myself have standards. You want that ring so bad, learn how to work for it. Respect your partner first. Stop using sex as a weapon. Stop hating and blaming men for everything. Stop expecting some form of payment for household chores that everyone does. Stop competing with your partner and learn how to compromise. Competition is not meant for couples. Earn your happiness like everybody else must. Learn how to actually love someone other than yourself.

    Just maybe, you’re cheating yourself and everybody else by not taking responsibility for your own actions…. but what would i know, being one of those average shmucks, eh?

    • Replies: @iffen
  327. Che Guava says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I think you have some half-formed thoughts that you express.

    Who is ‘they’ in your account?

    I can guess the ‘they’, but you must be more clear on it, even if elliptical, you can express it.

    Also, don’t forgetting, the Iranian religious police aside, the people there have the most who are close to Europeans mentally, unlike Israel, which is a perpetual leach. US posters may calculate how much your government pays to every woman, man, and child in that place, it is many thousands of dollars, not even counting the free gifts of weaponry.

    Sick.

  328. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    Without the Chinese, yes Malaysia would tank. And without Westerners, so would Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States. Probably, the only Muslim countries with a sizable smart fraction are Turkey and Iran, in spite of Islam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  329. Talha says:
    @BB753

    Hey BB753,

    Without the Chinese

    Chinese aren’t White.

    And without Westerners, so would Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States.

    They never really had much indigenous development for centuries prior to the oil boom so I doubt they would spontaneously take it over. If they were smart enough they would hire the Turks and Persians (or Chinese or Japanese) to develop for them. Whites may or may not be superfluous to the equation now that some others have a good handle on things. I doubt the Chinese would turn down offers to develop the Middle East – and they’d probably do it for cheaper if not to the exact standards of the West. Some are already starting to look East:

    “The participation of China in this forum reflects the keenness of China to boost development projects with the UAE and open wider promising opportunities for both sides, he added.”

    http://www.wam.ae/en/news/economics-emirates/1395300466185.html

    “H E Yahya al Jabri, chairman of the Special Economic Zone Authority in Duqm (Sezad), on Monday signed the cooperation, usufruct and development agreements for the China-Oman Industrial Park in Duqm.”

    http://www.muscatdaily.com/Archive/Business/Deal-signed-for-China-Oman-Industrial-Park-4prq

    I’m not even going to mention joint Sino-Pakistani military hardware research and development.

    in spite of Islam

    Correct, converting to Islam neither increases nor decreases one’s IQ. I’m willing to concede this point if you have a scientific study proving otherwise.

    I understand you are a materialist from our previous exchanges. Either you are right or you are not. If you are incorrect, a word to the wise; the worst thing possible one can do is make claims that one or one’s people are indispensable. God has a track record of making sure His slaves recognize just how dispensable they are.
    “…God is the All-sufficient; you are the destitute. If you turn away, He will exchange you for some other people, and they will not be like you.” 47:38

    We Muslims are quite irrelevant to the equation, the world will run just fine without us; one of the greatest gifts one can be bestowed is the realization that one approaches the table holding no cards whatsoever.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @BB753
  330. Talha says:
    @Talha

    I’m not even going to mention

    Doh – just mentioned it!!! :)

  331. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    “Chinese aren’t White.”

    Who said they were? My point is that Malaysia relies on intelligent and industrious non-Muslims of foreign origin, in this case the Chinese, for its economy to grow and to keep its infrastructures working. Just like the Saudis for instance rely on Westerners.

    “converting to Islam neither increases nor decreases one’s IQ”

    But marrying your first cousin or niece does lower IQ. Islam fosters inbreeding by not repudiating such practices, as the Catholic Church did in the Middle Ages.
    Also, converting to Islam during the first centuries of its expansion was only appealing to the lower classes, those who could not afford dhimmitude, that is, paying high taxes just to be allowed to practice one’s original religion and being largely left alone. Thus all over the Islamic world, non-Muslims (Christians, Jews, etc) have higher IQ than their fellow Muslims.

    “We Muslims are quite irrelevant to the equation, the world will run just fine without us.. ”

    I wholeheartedly agree with you. What’s more, the world would be a better place without Muslims! Not that I believe we should nuke the whole lot of you, though the proposition is very tempting, but rather I favor forced mass conversion to Theravada Buddhism or some other more sensible religion.

    Peace, brother!

    • Replies: @Talha
  332. @anonymous

    Actually, it was Kris Kristofferson. JJ just sang his song.

  333. Talha says:
    @BB753

    Hey BB753,

    My point

    Is being constantly revised; started out with music, then White people, then…my simple mind is struggling to keep up.

    Malaysia relies on intelligent and industrious non-Muslims of foreign origin

    Sure thing, though the Malays are fairly intelligent themselves – but yes, they definitely lean on the Chinese for some things. Why is that a big deal? The first Muslim navy was built and heavily attended by Christian former-Byzantines. Muslims started out like that, then had a few very good centuries in leading the world in science and industry (mostly in Persia, the Levant, Egypt and Spain) and then went into decline. It’s been the age of Europe and its tributaries for that last few centuries and now the baton may be passed to the Far East. Everyone gets a turn!

    But marrying your first cousin or niece does lower IQ.

    Probably, but since when are we allowed to marry nieces? Are you confusing us with Orthodox Jews?

    Islam fosters inbreeding by not repudiating such practices

    It does nothing of the sort – it simply allows the choice of cousin marriage to be a cultural prerogative. I’ve never once seen one opinion of any school of jurisprudence that states it is encouraged – have you? The Hanbali school specifically discourages it – the rest are ambivalent. Many ethnicities have been Muslim for centuries (Javans, Malays, Chechens, etc.) and have zero or negligible rates of cousin marriage. Do you really think that the Irish would magically start marrying their cousins if they became Muslim?

    converting to Islam during the first centuries of its expansion was only appealing to the lower classes

    Islam always appeals to the lower classes at the beginning; this was the same in Madinah and Mecca (slaves, orphans, etc.). They have less attachment to the world and much more to look forward to in the next life. Incidentally, this was the case with Christianity as well before it went imperial.

    Thus all over the Islamic world, non-Muslims (Christians, Jews, etc) have higher IQ than their fellow Muslims.

    Hmmm – proof? Let’s put this to the test. Lebanon has the highest percentage Christian population in the Muslim Arab world – around 40% – thus they should be doing the heavy lifting to help their retarded Muslim co-citizens. However, scanning the web, I find three sources stating that they are below solid Muslim, tribal, Arab countries like Algeria, Jordan and Iraq – whazzup with that?:

    https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country

    Not that I believe we should nuke the whole lot of you

    You deserve a cookie for your moral fortitude!

    though the proposition is very tempting

    “Have no fear for atomic energy,
    ‘Cause none of them can stop the time”
    —Bob Marley

    forced mass conversion to Theravada Buddhism

    I’d definitely pay to see Buddhist monks forcibly converting people – wow – the cognitive dissonance would be enough to fry eggs on their shaved heads. I’d also pay to see Amish UFC champions.

    Why anybody chooses to judge Islam by lack of material wealth in its societies makes absolutely no sense to me when its main message is one of spiritual transcendence:
    “Know that the life of the world is only play, and idle talk, and pomp, and boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children; as the likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the tiller, but afterward it dries up and you see it turning yellow, then becoming debris. And in the Hereafter there is severe punishment or forgiveness from God and His good pleasure, whereas the life of the world is but matter of illusion.” 57:20

    “By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them.” – reported in Bukhari

    It is interesting, but (coming back to one of the points of this article – suicide) the list of countries with the smallest rates are heavy with Muslim populations:

    http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.MHSUICIDE?lang=en

    Iraq has one of the smallest – what a triumph of the soul!

    As I said before, it’s high time the hare stops to smell the flowers and take a good look at the expansive sky – the tortoise is well behind him, plodding along happily – he is only chasing his own shadow.

    Peace.

  334. iffen says:
    @Chukhed

    after 6 years of her disrespect, cheating, backstabbing, alcoholism, and abuse. Of course i didnt marry her, she was a psycho

    Slow learner?

    Seriously, any true cocksman will tell you that these women have the best pussy.

  335. @jacques sheete

    Where is there a dearth of straight men? Greenwich Village? One percent of the US male population identifies as gay.

  336. @Talha

    Islam always appeals to the lower classes at the beginning; this was the same in Madinah and Mecca (slaves, orphans, etc.). They have less attachment to the world and much more to look forward to in the next life. Incidentally, this was the case with Christianity as well before it went imperial.

    Talha. thanks for persisting in the good fight and shedding light where darkness reigns. The quote above is a special gem in a posting full of gems and it amazes me that so many people condemn what they know nothing about and don’t even consider elementary factors like that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  337. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Islam always appeals to the lower classes at the beginning; this was the same in Madinah and Mecca (slaves, orphans, etc.). They have less attachment to the world and much more to look forward to in the next life. Incidentally, this was the case with Christianity as well before it went imperial.

    This is still the case with Christianity; see, say, the life of St. Francis Xavier. It is, however, also the case that Christianity has a powerful intellectual appeal to the upper classes and to the more intelligent. RH Benson wrote about this double appeal somewhere; I’ll give you the reference if I can remember it. Isn’t this also true of Islam to some extent?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @jacques sheete
  338. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    No problem JS. After interacting with people on this forum and elsewhere, I think I have come to understand where a lot of this comes from – and I empathize with them. There seems to be a sign of desperation at play, a grasping for something that will make sense, that will assure someone that the curtain will not close on their act – maybe because they are God’s chosen, maybe because they have the right genes, maybe “magic dirt” – but assuredly it will. It is just a question of time. Note what I said:

    It’s been the age of Europe and its tributaries for that last few centuries and now the baton may be passed to the Far East. Everyone gets a turn!

    We Muslims (at least some of the regions like Persia, Levant, etc.) had our run at being at the top of the pyramid; scientifically, militarily, etc. But that curtain closed on our act centuries ago – thus, no big deal we don’t feel threatened because we’re not at the top any more. Somebody else can vie for it. Most others can do things or produce things better than the Muslim world, the only unique thing we have to offer people is what’s found in places like this (http://www.ibnpercy.com/the-masjid-mosque-of-shaykh-murabit-ul-hajj/) and this (http://tarim.shifa.net.au/) and people are most welcome to it. Or a wisdom about gender relations embedded in our tradition (yes, that’s a White shaykh, Tim Winter) – which is also desperately fighting to stay afloat above the madness:

    It is the difference between the reactions of a man who just extracted $20 from the ATM and put it in his wallet versus the man who just pulled out five grand – you best believe that guy will be looking around paranoid and suspicious at everything.

    And possibly, this was what was going through the minds of the Muslims a few centuries ago; why are these non-Muslims surpassing us in all these fields? And possibly why some Muslims lashed out in such violent desperation and started questioning the foundations of their own tradition. Others can be excused for such behavior, but we should know better since we make this prayer:
    “Say: ‘O Allah, Owner of Sovereignty! You give dominion to whom You will, and withdraw dominion from whom You will. You exalt whom You will, and You abase whom You will. In Your hand is all virtue and You have power over all things.’” 3:26

    Peace.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  339. Talha says:
    @anon

    I agree with you 100%. But we are talking about the degrees to who it appeals to and the rate at which different kinds of people come into these faiths. There are many parallels between Christianity and Islam on this (and other fronts).

    Isn’t this also true of Islam to some extent?

    Absolutely – men like Imams Ibn Rushd, Ghazali, Fakhr ud-din Razi, Baqillani (ra) were geniuses – anybody who studies their works honestly will admit the same.

    For a religion to be relevant and coherent, it must provide guidance and be pertinent to both the intelligent and the less so – for otherwise, is God making Himself only accessible to those with immense intellects?

    Peace.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @jacques sheete
  340. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    I quite agree.
    Incidentally, I tracked down the Benson reference; it’s from Christ in the Church (1911), starting on page 45 and going on for about ten pages. Curiously, Msgr. Benson is contrasting Catholicism with the other Christianities here (I know not with how much justification).

  341. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Do you really think that the Irish would magically start marrying their cousins if they became Muslim?

    No, but the English might, seeing as they did so quite happily while they were Anglican ( :) ).

  342. @Talha

    It is the difference between the reactions of a man who just extracted $20 from the ATM and put it in his wallet versus the man who just pulled out five grand – you best believe that guy will be looking around paranoid and suspicious at everything.

    That’s a recurrent theme in many of the old Greek writings as well.

    Here’s one. There are better ones, but I can’t recall them at the moment.

    Tim. I must obey, and be a rich man again, Hermes; what can one do, when Gods insist? But reflect what troubles you are bringing on my luckless head; I have had a blissful life of late, and now for no fault of my own I am to have my hands full of gold and care again.

    Lucian of Samosata, TIMON THE MISANTHROPE, ~150 AD

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/luc/wl1/wl111.htm

    That piece also deals with the fickleness and impermanence of material wealth, just as does your prayer.

  343. @anon

    It is, however, also the case that Christianity has a powerful intellectual appeal to the upper classes and to the more intelligent.

    Not to be argumentative, but I’m genuinely curious about the claim about the intellectual appeal. I am very familiar with that demographic group and am always fascinated by their apparent fascination and devotion to the superstitious aspects of the practices of what they call Christianity. It has long puzzled me that apparently intelligent people could actually believe some of the things they do. For many, if not almost all of them, money is the thing that has the most appeal to them. My view tho, is probably skewed because my experience is almost exclusively from Roman Catholicism and Greek Orthodox perspectives.

    Also,I have never detected a mustard seed’s worth of “intellectuality” about it, and I am not saying that to be contentious or even derogatory.

    Would you care to explain your claim in a little more detail?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Sam Shama
    , @Anon
  344. Art says:
    @Talha

    It is interesting, but (coming back to one of the points of this article – suicide) the list of countries with the smallest rates are heavy with Muslim populations:

    Talha,

    It is my impression that in Muslim society there is a strong pecking order. The strength of this system is that everyone has a place – that everyone has a connection to those above and those below – that everyone belongs.

    People who commit suicide cannot make connects to anyone. Everyone needs some psychological connection to someone else. It is most important in schools to have mentor systems for friendless children.

    Peace — Art

    • Replies: @Talha
  345. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey JS,

    If I may – though people like Newton or someone like Kierkegaard were not your ordinary Christian and held some beliefs that would be considered heretical – I believe these may be the kind of men that are being referred to here. At least that’s what I was getting at when I agreed to the statement.

    Also, the medieval clergy were probably the most learned people (as a class) in Christian societies.

    They certainly gave Muslim scholars a run for their money in their theological debates as far back as Abbassid times – let me tell ya!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  346. Talha says:
    @Art

    Hey Art,

    I would agree with this. The details obviously differ in the various societies from Senegal to Malaysia; some being tribal societies, some being matriarchal, etc. But yes, the basics of where everyone fits are reinforced (if you listen to the lecture I posted in #344, the scholar talks about the importance of well-defined gender roles). For instance, something that is germane to this topic; according to the majority of the schools, a woman cannot marry without the consent of her guardian (father, grandfather, older brother, etc. depending on who is alive) – the marriage is invalid on its face. The school I follow (Hanafi) validates it, but the father has an option to annul it in court if there is legitimate reason. For the record, the daughter also has veto power. Now this can certainly be abused (places where the father vetoes every option unless the guy is from his same village, or from his extended family, etc.), however, most fathers care for the well-being of their daughters and would intervene if they truly felt that the relationship is not in her long-term interest. Could these unhappy women have benefited from their fathers (knowing men way better than their daughters do) playing a greater role in guiding who they choose to marry or have a relationship with?

    People who commit suicide cannot make connects to anyone.

    You’ve been hitting them out the ball park as far as I’m concerned with the insights on this thread. This is extremely important and this is an unfortunate side-effect of a hyper-individualist society. The freedom, that the lack of connections can bring, is exhilarating – until it isn’t.

    Peace.

  347. Sam Shama says:
    @jacques sheete

    [Not to be argumentative, but I’m genuinely curious about the claim about the intellectual appeal. ]

    I’ve often thought it a curiosity well-grounded, one which recognises superstition merely cloaked in euphemisms. iow a great many intellectuals in that category were euphemists, and certainly not exclusive to Christianity.

    To paraphrase Chesterton commenting on the subject, suppose one said ‘The powers of persuasion and coercion which a modern citizen might apply to ensure that the burden of longevity in the previous generation does not encroach in an intolerable proportion, especially to the females,‘ one would observe the religious intellectual to gently rock to and fro in satisfied agreement like babies sent to sleep in a cradle; but remark with its precise equivalent in cold logic ‘Murder your mother,’ and they sit up startled!

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  348. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Shama

    It is not from reason and providence that people marry, but from inclination. A man is poor; he thinks , I cannot be worse, and so I’ll e’en take Polly*.

    (Dr. Johnson)

    *I see, upon checking my references, that the girl taken is in fact Peggy. But I will leave poor pretty Polly, for old times’ sake.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  349. @Talha

    Also, the medieval clergy were probably the most learned people (as a class) in Christian societies.

    This subject is not my forte, but it’s my understanding that the learned clergy, in this case, did not include anyone below bishop, and his word was not to be questioned.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, and thanks for the reply.

    Merry Christmas to ya. Is there a Muslim equivalent to that greeting?

    Peace back at ya, my friend!

    • Replies: @Talha
  350. @Sam Shama

    Thanks for that. I know nothing about Chesterton, but now you’ve piqued my interest. Talha has also done the same for the Muslim scholars he mentioned. I’ll never even begin to scratch the surface tho!!!

    And Merry Christmas to you as well or if you prefer, whatever it is that Jewish folk greet people with at this season.

    Bless you.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  351. @Talha

    Imams Ibn Rushd, Ghazali, Fakhr ud-din Razi, Baqillani

    I read a few paragraphs on these guys. I’ll never be able to study them in any depth, but they sound utterly fascinating.

    It sure would be awesome if a guy could discuss these things in person!

    • Replies: @Talha
  352. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey JS,

    Most of their stuff is not translated so it is very difficult stuff to get to. Imam Ghazali and Ibn Rushd (ra) have probably the most that has been translated from the original Arabic or Persian.

    This is a pretty good summary of Imam Ghazali (ra) who the Sunnis have called ‘The Proof of Islam’ due to how widely he was accepted:

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/al-ghazali/

    But this is why we believe he was accepted, far beyond his intellect, he completely annihilated his ego (remember he starts out this journey as one of the greatest jurists and debaters of his era and in charge of the Oxford of his day):

    Peace.

  353. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey JS,

    Without treading too far into an area of which I don’t have much knowledge; I will say that from what I have read before, that monasteries were often the only places of cultivated scholarship in certain parts of medieval Europe – read the paragraph starting with:
    “The seats of medieval civilization were not towns, which in the early centuries were rare, but monasteries and castles in the country…”
    The Social Origins of Modern Science

    Is there a Muslim equivalent to that greeting?

    Hmmm not really since we don’t celebrate Christmas – but I do wish you and family good cheer and abundant blessings through the New Year – and beyond!

    Peace.

  354. Sam Shama says:
    @jacques sheete

    Well, I love the Christmas cheer and its Hannukah for us when the jolly old Maccabees fought off Greek demands to submit to a complete cultural assimilation!! Today it is mainly involves lighting candles and eating jelly doughnuts!

    Happy Christmas to you, JS.

  355. Sam Shama says:
    @Anon

    Peggy is just as pretty as Polly, all differences blurred as they say, upon applying oneself diligently to J. Walker, or whatever sturdy ale is at hand.

    Happy Christmas to you!

  356. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    Malaysian IQ without the Chinese factoring in would be in the 85 range. Malays aren’t bright by world standards.

    As for Lebanon, Christians have been both outbred and pushed out by the less intelligent Muslims. Muslims will run Lebanon to the ground. Just look at how successful the diaspora Lebanese Christian are all over the world. It goes without saying that they are way more intelligent and hard-working than their Muslim co-nationals.

    My point is that Islam is a religion that fosters backwardness, moral turpitude and a parasytical way of life.

    Peace and Merry Christmas, heathen!

  357. Talha says:

    Hey BB753,

    Malaysian IQ without the Chinese factoring in would be in the 85 range.

    Prove. It.

    As for Lebanon, Christians have been both outbred and pushed out by the less intelligent Muslims.

    Nice – so they are below Algeria because the 50% Lebanese Muslim population is hyper-retarded. Again, prove it – they should be above all the other Arab countries by a long shot according to your assumptions.

    By the way – don’t tell the Israelis that they had their backsides handed to them in 2006 by a militia running at below 60 IQ – it’ll hurt their feelings.

    My point is that Islam is a religion that fosters backwardness, moral turpitude and a parasytical way of life.

    That’s fine – that’s why you are not Muslim – all of this is opinion and not provable by any historic measure. The Muslim polymaths of Persia, Levant, Egypt, Spain existed despite your protestations. Here is one of my early teachers of Arabic:
    “Prior to his final semester in medical school, Shaykh Omar traveled to Darul Uloom Zakariyya, South Africa to further pursue Islamic studies. There in South Africa, he completed the final year of the Shari’ah course studying under such luminaries as Shaykh Radha ul-Haq, one of the leading Muftis of South Africa. In 2006, he received degrees in both Shari’ah studies and Medicine.”
    “From 2007 to 2013, Shaykh Omar completed his medical residency in Anatomic and Clinical Pathology and fellowships in Hematopathology and Molecular Genetic Pathology at Washington University in St. Louis. During this time, he was also received formal authorization in the Islamic science of spiritual purification. Shaykh Omar is currently a staff physician at the Moffitt Cancer Center and an Assistant Professor of Oncological Sciences at the University of South Florida in Tampa where he resides.”

    http://pureway.org/shaykh-omar/

    How many credentialed religious scholars do you know that are also credentialed physicians? I know of two and one on the way.

    The backwardness that the Muslim world faces is entirely our own fault. We have lost our bearings:
    “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam, so if we seek honor from other than Islam, then Allah will humiliate us.” reported from Umar al-Khattab (ra)

    Our Lord has every right to censure, correct and humiliate His slaves at the hands of His other slaves until we mend our ways.

    Peace and I wish you good cheer and safety as the year comes to a close.

    • Replies: @BB753
  358. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    Talha, you are blind to reality. Your religion is like a fog. It prevents you from facing facts and seeing truth. This is why Islam is the very definition of evil: it makes worthy people a shadow of what they could have been but for their fanaticism.

    Peace and may you find the light instead of pursuing darkness and its lord

    • Replies: @Art
  359. Talha says:

    Hey BB753,

    It prevents you from facing facts and seeing truth.

    Why is it when I get into these discussions with folks that I am the one constantly citing facts and academic sources while the other side offers their opinions. And then I am told I can’t see the facts or truth?

    I mean let’s look at this Malaysia thing for example. Using this site as a reference (https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country) and accounting for the percentage of Chinese in Malaysia – assuming they did all the heavy lifting – the rest of ethnic Malays end up with an average IQ around 88/89. Let’s just take it at face value.

    Then we look around the neighborhood of non-Muslim countries; Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Thailand, Philippines, etc. and it all seems around the ball park given standard deviation errors – Vietnam seems to be ahead of the pack. So what evidence do we have that Islam has dumbed down ethnic Malays far beyond neighboring non-Muslim ethnicities? I mean it’s had a few centuries now to do its work.

    Also it doesn’t explain why Singapore is ahead of China when it should surely be bogged down by around 25% of the population being Indian or Malay (almost all of them Muslim). Again whazzup? Is it too much to ask for coherence?

    This is why Islam is the very definition of evil

    Aside from the fact that I take any pronouncements of ‘evil’ from materialists with huge sacks of salt – my very definition of evil involves more people in Nazi uniforms raping kittens while eating baby livers while contemplating how tempting it would be to nuke people that have done them no harm half-way across the world. I dunno – just my opinion.

    it makes worthy people a shadow of what they could have been

    Don’t like pathologists, eh? No problem.

    Peace, may we all be guided to the truth in all matters and may we have the courage to accept it, whether it is for us or against us.

    • Replies: @BB753
  360. Art says:
    @BB753

    Talha, you are blind to reality. Your religion is like a fog. It prevents you from facing facts and seeing truth. This is why Islam is the very definition of evil: it makes worthy people a shadow of what they could have been but for their fanaticism.

    BB753,

    Due to our unjust attack of Iraq and its follow on — poor Muslims are doing the majority of the dying. Is it not natural that they want to kill us back?

    Is it possible that if we stopped killing Muslims – that their bloody side would abate – that they would stop killing us.

    On the other hand, if we continue to kill Muslims in big numbers, the percentage of Muslims who want to kill us will grow (there are a lot of targets for lone wolf attacks (on average they are taking 10 of us at a time))? There are 1.5 billion of them.

    Does this make any sense?

    Peace — Art

    • Replies: @BB753
  361. BB753 says:
    @Art

    Muslims will want to kill us no matter what we do. But getting out of the Middle East would be a great idea, if only because it would mean fewer Muslims coming over as refugees.

  362. BB753 says:
    @Talha

    Talha,
    An average IQ of 88-89 confirms what I said: Malays aren’t bright.
    I won’t bother to answer the rest of your comments. Your act is very tiresome: a mixture of trolling and preaching.

    Peace

    • Replies: @Talha
  363. Talha says:
    @BB753

    Hey BB753,

    Malays aren’t bright.

    Apparently, neither is anyone in their immediate neighborhood according to your standards.

    I won’t bother to answer the rest of your comments.

    Don’t waste your time, you’re not the only one watching this exchange – those with an objective and academic bent have always been my intended audience. Coherence, remember?

    For the record, if you attack my faith and I defend it – I would have to be a master at rhetoric to pull it off without sounding preachy.

    Peace.

  364. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @jacques sheete

    Well, the ungracious reply would be simply to point you in the general direction of history and say “Look” …

    A good place to start would be to follow my reference and Talha’s.

    Looking down, I see that Talha has already covered quite well for me, but perhaps I should add a little. I’ve never known anyone who has either converted or apostatized from any religion for money. I’m sure the thing has happened in the past, but I doubt if it was much even then. The only exception I can think of is some of the conversions to Protestantism in the 16th century; in general people convert for more personal reasons: love or conviction or emotional experience.

    In my (worthless) opinion the RCC is the most intellectually respectable of the Christian churches; I have often heard it criticized for being too focused on reason, so I’ll center on it. The RCC from the earliest age delighted in intellectual controversy; see Tertullian (originally a Catholic), St. Justin Martyr, St. Augustine. St. Thomas Aquinas is probably the apogee of the super-rationalist trend; he speaks for himself and I urge you to read him if you have a taste for dry but precise Latin. In recent days quite a few well-known people have converted to the RCC or Christianity in general on rational grounds; Arnold Lunn, CEM Joad, C.S. Lewis, Edward Feser, for examples from the top of my head. Benson gives more, I think. If you ask around, I doubt you’ll find any priest who knows anyone who left the Church, having been convinced on a purely intellectual or argumentative level that its claims are false.

    Father Copleston SJ was regarded as a worthy opponent in controversy by Bertrand Russell.

    This is not the place, nor I the proper interlocutor, for a debate on the merits of Christianity or its logical necessity (or that of Islam, for that matter). For that, you can try writing your local bishop, who should be able to put you in touch with someone, or talk to you himself (if he’s unlike most bishops). Or you can try Edward Feser, or for a non-Catholic perspective William Lane Craig (I don’t know if these two would have the time, though) . If you want to discuss the intellectual merits of Islam, I’m sure Talha would be happy to oblige, or you could contact a nearby imam, if there is one, or even one farther away. I’d advise against Gulen because I have gotten a strong impression of disingenuousness from him.

    You are indeed being argumentative, but that is nothing at all to be ashamed of. It is so common for Christians and Christianity to be assailed with vagueness and innuendo that a clear challenge is welcomed; the Christian controversialist pricks up his ears, smelleth the battle afar off, and sayeth among the trumpets “Ha ha”. :) See Lunn’s dialogue with Knox, or his later dialogues with other figures.

    I see somewhere downthread that you express a desire to become better acquainted with Chesterton. This is an excellent thing to do. Chesterton combines a facility for seeing through the BS (pardon, monsieur) of the modern world with an equal facility for Christian apologetic. Senyor Shama’s quote (paraphrase, whatever) is from Eugenics and Other Evils, iirc; another good book in a similar vein is The Superstition of Divorce. Chesterton’s argument for Christianity is presented in The Everlasting Man, which supposedly had much to do with the conversion of CS Lewis. It is not a purely logical-philosophical argument in the mode of St. Thomas; I cannot explain it exactly; Chesterton must be read to be appreciated. Also his fiction is excellent, and much verse. The world is bursting at the seams with books of Christian apologetic, and it is not generally a field I would gladly explore, but another good work by a friend and contemporary of Chesterton’s is The Belief of Catholics by Fr. Ronald Knox.

    For a fellow who said he would add but a little, I have rambled like a drunken teenage girl, and it is time to stop, both relative to the length of this comment and absolutely, considering the time of day (night, actually). I am sorry to have responded so late, but I have had quite a bit to occupy me of late.

    Merry Christmas, and a happy New Year*!

    RSDB

    *Known to Catholics as the Feast of the Circumcision. Less gruesome than it sounds.

    • Replies: @Talha
  365. Talha says:
    @Anon

    Edward Feser…William Lane Craig

    Very good reads actually – I have read from both of those gentlemen and found their writings to be quite enjoyable.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon
  366. Simone Weil died of heart failure brought on by tuberculosis. Her health suffered due to her extreme asceticism, which exacerbated her illness. She did intend to kill herself, she only meant to share vicariously in the sufferings of the victims of the Nazis. Vicarious suffering that weakens your health is not at all the same as deliberately murdering yourself. You might as well call Francis of Assisi, or many of the other extreme ascetics whose self denial diminished their health suicides – they are not, and to call them that is insulting.

    Christ also did not kill himself. He laid his life down. Not the same thing at all. The Romans killed him, and he let them do it. The same logic applies to all Christian martyrs – they did not kill themselves; they refused to renounce the faith, and suffered death for it. When some one else kills you without your compulsion; it is murder or execution, not suicide.

    Go call soldiers who died risking their lives for their country and comrades sucides down at the local American Legion suicides and see how it goes over. Your ethical logic here sucks, and you should retract or revise your statement about Christ and Weil.

  367. Talha says:

    I am sad, my prediction at #196 did not come to pass – didn’t even get past a modest 400. I guess no one can dethrone the king of all discussions; 9/11 narratives and their evidences.

    Long live the king!

    Suicidal women – meh – who cares about them??? Wait, don’t tell them that, because…well, you know…

    Peace.

  368. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Glad you thought so. If you have the time and the inclination you should really try Chesterton as well; maybe The Man Who Was Thursday would be a good place to start. Chesterton also has the advantage of having been dead so long that most of his work is now available free online.

    Re #373, serves you right; isn’t fortunetelling prohibited in Islam? ( :) )

    • Replies: @Talha
  369. Talha says:
    @Anon

    LOL! Yes, but making an honest prediction is not – otherwise, how could one ever be a successful businessman?

    Fortune telling involves more of an assumption or declaration that what one is predicting comes from supernatural knowledge.

    But yes, I have egg on my face.

    Thanks for the Chesterton reference!

    Peace.

  370. PJ says:

    The end product of feminism: unhappy women. It’s similar in a way to the end product of welfare: destroyed families and dependent people. I’m actually pleased that humans are not such predictable machines, that simple-minded bureaucratic “solutions” could fix them. Still, it is depressing that people fall prey to these solutions anyway. The human costs are staggering.

    I’ve been reading Ralph Moody’s “Little Britches” autobiographical series of books, written about his experiences in the early 20th Century. His family was grindingly poor and the women “in their place”, yet for some strange reason they seemed happy. They took care of themselves even after the father died with a factory-induced respiratory disease. Even the very young children in that family contributed to its welfare.

  371. MarcB. says:

    “Women after all, make the rules. From there, operators operate, the best operators being those men who at an early age, throw away chivalrous notions and treat women the way women need to be treated in the Post-Chivalrous age of modern feminism”.

    This was the lay of the land as I understood it from age twenty, and accepting this limited my yearning and heartache. I only felt a strong enough connection to perhaps four of the woman in my rotation, and happily pushed away from the buffet in my life on those occasions. I would have gladly adapted my lifestyle for marriage while young had met a virtuous woman, but when you are a man-whore, all you see is world full of woman-whores, and who wants to end up with one of those…?

  372. frosty says:
    @Jim Christian

    Shallow, but then you already know you are. I’ll add that you are fucked up beyond toxic – but then sub-consciously you already know this, too. You are a pavement ape.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  373. @frosty

    Shallow, but then you already know you are. I’ll add that you are fucked up beyond toxic – but then sub-consciously you already know this, too. You are a pavement ape.

    That’s exactly what pussy-boy/girl feminists the world over always say to me. If you, Nancy, want to release women from their responsibility for what they are, say and become, feel free. Focus your sexual frustration on THEM, pussy, don’t EVER think you get credit from THEM for hassling me. But don’t look to me to join you, pussy-boy. Virtue signaling your feminist creds the way you do reminds me of Harvey Weinstein, celebrated Israeli Jew, who only rapes Gentile women. You male feminists are the creepiest rapers of all, pussy-boi/grrl.

    Fat, drunk and feminist is no way to go through life, Pussy-Boi/Grrrl. Now go suck a feminist teat, Frosty. You’ll find it quite dry and unsatisfying.

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