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The End of Israel
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Protest outside AIPAC Convention, Washington 2015
Protest outside AIPAC Convention, Washington 2015

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John Kerry’s speech of December 28th, 2016 is an eye-opening indictment of Israel. Though prolix and padded with platitudes, its meat is a long overdue j’accuse.

Much of the world has long viewed the Jewish state as a serial landgrabbing killer. Indirectly, Kerry converged with this near consensus, “the settler agenda is defining the future of Israel. And their stated purpose is clear. They believe in one state: greater Israel,” but this settler agenda is the very definition of Israel, for it was founded on stealing other people’s land and killing them.

Unchecked, it will gobble up even more of its neighbors’ territories. Eric Margolis points out, “Israel may look small on the map but it’s a giant of a country, filled with very smart people who know just what they want and how to get it.”

On November 29th, 2012, the United Nations voted to recognize Palestine as a “non-member observer state.” 139 countries assented, 41 abstained and only 9 said no. The sulkers were Israel, United States, Canada, CzechRepublic, Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and Panama. The very next day, Israel announced it would build 3,000 more homes for Jews in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem. Screw the world, responded Israel.

Kerry quoted Shimon Peres to tell us that the 52% of Palestine given to Jews had ballooned to 78%, as of 2014. Kerry:

I don’t think most people in Israel, and certainly in the world, have any idea how broad and systematic the process has become. But the facts speak for themselves. The number of settlers in the roughly 130 Israeli settlements east of the 1967 lines has steadily grown. The settler population in the West Bank alone, not including East Jerusalem, has increased by nearly 270,000 since Oslo, including 100,000 just since 2009, when President Obama’s term began.

As Kerry said, stealing land from Palestinians is systematic and ongoing, but without systematic, bloody land theft, there would be no Israel at all. Stealing land is Israel’s core and DNA.

To most Americans, however, the Jewish homeland is a sacred, eternal victim that must be defended till the end (time). Jewish scripture is routinely evoked to defend Jewish larceny. Considering this most unnatural nation “God’s outpost,” Pat Robertson believes Jews must own it all. He cites:

I am going to give all this land to you and your offspring as a permanent possession (Genesis 13:15)

O our God, did you not drive out those who lived in this land when your people arrived? And did you not give this land forever to the descendants of your friend Abraham? (II Chronicles 20:7)

Influential blogger Michael Snyder believes God has punished the US ten times for not kissing Israel’s tush enough. When Bill Clinton met with Bashar al-Assad in 1994 to discuss the possible return of the Golan Heights, Yahweh retaliated within 24 hours by slamming California with the Northridge Earthquake. When Clinton failed to show enough love to Netanyahu at the White House in 1998, the Monica Lewinsky scandal spattered onto newsprint that same day. When Bush fils set August 23rd, 2005 as the deadline for removing Jewish settlers from Gaza, Hurricane Katrina took aim for New Orleans. The fact that it only caused minimal damage to the Bahamas and Cuba shows how excellent of a marksman God is.

Obama must have gotten a kick out of having a Jew, Kerry, shame the Jewish homeland. This affront won’t be shrugged off. What’s in your closet, Barack? The sex-slave island set up by mysteriously-funded Jewish billionaire Jeffrey Epstein ensnared some the world’s most powerful, but Obama never went there, apparently. Did he, however, order pasta and ice cream from Besta [Bestia, Beast] Pizza?

Israel’s defenders have lambasted Kerry’s speech as shameful, reckless and destructive. I asked my Palestinian friend, Tahseen al Khateeb, for a response. He emailed me from Amman, Jordan:

The only good thing about Mr. Kerry’s speech is that this is the first time we hear such blunt words from an American diplomat! Kerry’s rebuke of Israel is warmly welcomed all over the Arab world, but what’s really going on? I don’t believe the American administration’s conscience is suddenly awaken. The Obama Administration did nothing to help the Palestinians build their own free independent state, and nothing to prevent Israel’s war on Gaza. They did nothing to stop the building of settlements. So why now, in their final days in power, are they talking about Palestinian rights?!

In the near future, nothing will change with this US pivot, but symbolically, we’re living in a new world, one where Israel is universally seen as criminal in essence, a fact that’s reinforced each day it refuses to abandon its +130 illegal settlements.

Speaking to leaders of Muslim countries in 2003, Malaysian President Mahathir Mohamad described the founding of Israel as Europeans dumping their “Jewish problem” onto Muslims, a situation they had to swallow due to their weakness. After abusing Jews, Christians made Muslims pay to eternity. Thus:

There is a feeling of hopelessness among the Muslim countries and their people. They feel that they can do nothing right. They believe that things can only get worse. The Muslims will forever be oppressed and dominated by the Europeans and the Jews. They will forever be poor, backward and weak.

Backing Israel has only discredited and immiserated the US and its Christian allies, however, and that’s why they’re starting to wash their hands of this nightmare. Leaving office, Obama can finally afford to pipe up some truth. Coming in, Trump is prostrating himself most abjectly. He’s showing his true colors. To defend this deeply despised nation is to go against the world, truth, justice, common sense and America.

Another apartheid country, South Africa, had to remake itself after becoming delegitimized and universally condemned, so the end of Israel is within sight. Without this endless font of strife and mendacity, the world will be a much better place. Amen.

Linh Dinh’s Postcards from the End of America will be published by Seven Stories Press in January of 2017. Tracking our deteriorating socialscape, he maintains a photo blog.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Israel Lobby, Israel/Palestine 
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  1. Please, no premature celebrations. They’ve as much as promised to take the USA down with them when and if they go..

    ETA: “Obama must have gotten a kick out of having a Jew, Kerry, shame the Jewish homeland.”

    Linh, tell me you did not just say that John Kerry is of the Tribe. What’s wrong with you?

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
    , @Lorax
  2. Clyde says:

    For all the Palestinians who were displaced in 1948 an equal number of Jews were driven out of Muslim Arab nations. So lets call it even Steven. Or at least I will. Half of Israel’s population comes from these Middle East derived Jews and other half from European Jews.
    Meanwhile Islam is conquering Europe via immigration, sucking up Euro-welfare system’s money and converting this into explosive birthrates. For Europe’s future demographics take a look at French and Swedish kindergarten classes. So who is smart and who are the chumps?
    What Lihn Dinh objects to is that the Israelis know how to keep the Muslim wolves at bay as the hapless Europeans cave in/submit/ and self destruct.

    The Expulsion of the Jews from Muslim Countries, 1920-1970: A History of Ongoing Cruelty and Discrimination
    Prof. Shmuel Trigano, November 4, 2010

    Between 1920 and 1970, 900,000 Jews were expelled from Arab and other Muslim countries. The 1940s were a turning point in this tragedy; of those expelled, 600,000 settled in the new state of Israel, and 300,000 in France and the United States. Today, they and their descendents form the majority of the French Jewish community and a large part of Israel’s population.
    In the countries that expelled Jews, a combination of six legal, economic, and political measures aimed at isolating Jews in society was instituted: denationalization; legal discrimination; isolation and sequestration; economic despoilment; socioeconomic discrimination; and pogroms or similar acts.
    It is the custom to say that Zionism was responsible for this development. However, the region’s anti-Semitism would have developed even without the rise of the state of Israel because of Arab-Islamic nationalism, which resulted in xenophobia.

    http://jcpa.org/article/the-expulsion-of-the-jews-from-muslim-countries-1920-1970-a-history-of-ongoing-cruelty-and-discrimination/

  3. Most of Syria is part of the “Promised Land” described in the Bible. So it belongs to the Jews! Israel openly annexed Syria’s Golan Heights many years ago and the world did nothing except refuse to recognize this. Does this explain Obama’s senseless support for the overthrow of popular and moderate President Assad by arming foreign Jihadists? Note that Israel conducts airstrikes in Syria on a weekly basis, and even missile attacks. http://defense-update.com/20161208_israels-precision-rockets.html

    When “radical” ISIS reached Israel’s border two years ago, these hard core Islamist didn’t attempt to cross. They never fired mortars, rockets, or bullets across the fence. Israel even provided medical aid to wounded ISIS Jihadists.

    If Assad goes, so goes Syria. It would be a chaotic mess and Israel would be justified to invade to establish a huge “security zone”, now cleared of Syrians killed or refugeed. Jewish settlements would appear in these occupied territories, as they did in the Golan. None of this is disclosed or discussed in the American media. But it does explain why nearly all American political leaders chant “Assad Must Go!” yet refuse to explain why.

  4. God has punished the US ten times for not kissing Israel’s tush enough.

    God had a bit of help (from Israel) on 9/11.

    Mr. Dinh, the reality of the 9/11 conspiracy doesn’t mean one must jump on every conspiracy bandwagon. The Podesta emails reveal that not only are Democrat insiders contemptuous of fair play, they are contemptuous of common American family values. This is enough to condemn them forcefully! There is no need for evidence-free conjecture about child sex trafficking.

  5. Lot says:

    Stealing land is Israel’s core and DNA.

    You just say this. Both the Bible, genetic history, and the right of conquest that established the borders of nearly every country all say the West Bank is rightfully Israel’s.

    The Golan Heights were taken after Syria twice invaded Israel.

  6. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Kyle McKenna

    Boston Globe, 6/15/03:

    For the past 15 years or so, Kerry says, he knew his paternal grandmother was probably Jewish, and he also knew the Kerrys came from the former Austrian empire. But he said he did not know, until informed by the Globe earlier this year, that his grandfather was a Czech Jew named Fritz Kohn who changed his name to Frederick Kerry to escape a violent strain of anti-Semitism. According to a story passed down to at least one family member, Kohn and his siblings randomly dropped a pencil on a map of Europe, spotted Ireland’s County Kerry, and adopted the name. Kohn and his wife, Ida Lowe, who was born Jewish in Budapest, changed their name to Kerry, were baptized as Catholics in 1902, and immigrated to the United States in 1905.

    Haaretz, 12/21/12:

    When Kerry was Kohn: The Jewish roots of John Kerry
    Dina Kraft

    BOSTON – Senator John Kerry, with his mother’s New England patrician pedigree and his Irish last name actually has a grandfather who was born a Jew in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire.

    The news was a revelation to Kerry himself, who only found out about his Jewish roots while running in the 2004 presidential election.

    His paternal grandfather Frederick A. Kerry, was born Fritz Kohn in a town in what today is the Czech Republic before changing his name ahead of his immigration to the United States a century ago.

    Kerry is a long-time U.S. Senator representing Massachusetts, who was nominated Friday by President Barack Obama as his next secretary of state.

    Kerry, if confirmed in the position, will not be the first U.S. Secretary of State to have discovered a Jewish family past later in life.

    In 1997 Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, who was born in Prague, learned three of her four grandparents were Jewish.

    In more immediate Jewish family ties, Kerry’s brother Cameron converted to Judaism after marrying Kathy Weinman, a Jewish woman and fellow lawyer he met on the job at a Washington law firm.

    In 1994 as his brother campaigned for president, Cameron Kerry, known as Cam, traveled to Israel for the first time on what was termed a “private visit” that was arranged by a branch of AIPAC. Accompanying him on that trip was Kerry’s top advisor on Mideast and Jewish affairs.

    During the visit he recalled finding out about his family’s Jewish roots and calling up his in-laws to tell them the news.

    “I called up Kathy’s parents and said ‘I’m Jewish,’ and they said, ‘Yeah we know’ and I said, ‘No, I’m really Jewish,’” he said in an interview with JTA at the time.

  7. US geopolitical strategists view it as an asset. Huge military base in the middle of a super-important region. An extremely useful trouble-maker behind enemy lines.

    Consequently, all the ‘human rights’ stuff, outrage at some group’s sufferings, etc. — none of that is applicable here, as that only can be used for discrediting the US enemies. End of story. It will keep going the way it is until the price of doing it is too high (and then some, probably).

    • Replies: @Art
    , @Wizard of Oz
  8. During the 1980′s as house parents in a busy international youth hostel in Key West, Florida my family lived with hundreds of Israeli young men and women most of whom were Sabras (native born). What was most striking about the Israelis, compared to other groups we lived with, was the flat personal aspect and steely visage of these young men and women. Many carried, at a tender age, what has been described as the thousand-yard stare of veteran combatants. more https://robertmagill.wordpress.com/2016/10/07/broken-warriors/

    • Replies: @edNels
    , @RobinG
  9. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    There can be no doubt that the most dangerous countries on earth today are Israel and the US; and with AIPAC et al controlling the latter, they should be considered one & the same

  10. @Linh Dinh. Have you read the Controversy of Zion, by Douglas Reed? I recommend the last 10 chapters. http://www.controversyofzion.info/Controversybook/index.htm

  11. mcohen says:

    linh

    i have been enjoying your postcard series because they describe real people.so why write this article.did you do your research.have you been to israel.
    however when i got to the end and read the last sentence i unbuckled a chuckle.
    amen indeed

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  12. @Clyde

    For all the Palestinians who were displaced in 1948 an equal number of Jews were driven out of Muslim Arab nations. So lets call it even Steven.

    Ya gotta hand it to this crowd. They certainly know how to “one up” the goyim, even if they have to make stuff up.

    If the smart asses are so clever, how come they’re not smart enough to lay low for once? Or at least refrain from making nuisances of themselves to the point that they’re universally loathed?

    Why can’t the smart ones see that lies, murder and theft have a shelf life? Arrogance and chutzpah too.

    If they’re so smart why do they not only repeatedly reject their own prophet’s admonitions to the point that they even torture and kill ‘em? Despite their brains and wealth, they repeatedly think and act like they’re above their own G-d’s laws.

    Answer me that, oh smarties!

    What’s going on in the settlements is the oh-so-clever infiltration (well honed, I might add from constant practice since the expulsion from the Garden) that everyone’s supposed to ignore or pretend isn’t happening. I bet the serpent was a python.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  13. n230099 says:

    “Another apartheid country, South Africa, had to remake itself…”

    And yet Americans that separated the indigenous peoples here putting them on their so called ‘reservations’ see no irony in the fact that they themselves live in settlements on occupied land. Oh yes, you’ll now hear that we ‘bought’ or ‘traded’ for some of the land and that’s true…well to the extent that we dealt with the ones we didn’t murder as we killed our way across the land. On the bright side, we now allow them to have casinos and the President just took millions of acres of Nevada and Utah into federal custody to preserve, in part, ‘sacred’ sites of our own ‘palestinians’. Yay America….boo Israel.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Ace
  14. iffen says:

    LD,

    Please, more fabulous postcards, no more polemics.

    STOP reading Unz.

    • Disagree: Stephen R. Diamond
  15. biz says:

    Meh, whatever. The restoration of Jewish independence in a tiny fraction of the land that was forcibly conquered and colonized by Islamic interlopers is one of the triumphs of humanity of the 20th century. The preservation of that independence in the face of four wars of genocidal intent started by the Arabs, as well as the largest and silliest sustained propaganda barrage in the history of the world is an additional triumph.

    Today Israel, in spite of being nine miles wide, without natural resources, and surrounded by barbaric failed states, is a modern democracy with a human capital based economy. It has managed against all odds to not only preserve but thrive, including absorbing the Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Muslim countries which now form the majority of its population. At any point Israel’s neighbors and their useful idiot enablers in the West could have decided to live in peace with it, but have chosen the path of denial every time. I see the trend continues…

    • Replies: @The Grate Deign
    , @Bill
  16. Randal says:

    Influential blogger Michael Snyder believes God has punished the US ten times for not kissing Israel’s tush enough.

    And Americans still have the sheer, unselfaware cheek to criticise muslims for being driven by irrational religious motivations!

  17. Sherman says:

    “The end of Israel is within sight”

    Ha!

    I remember when I was in college in the late 1980s a lefty professor told my class that Israel had only about twenty years left. He claimed Israel would inevitably collapse under the weight of a booming Arab population within its borders and technological advances of Arab militaries.

    Today Israel is stronger and wealthier than ever. For all its “apartheid” status much of the world is lining up to do business with it. Even Arab and Muslim countries want to trade with it.

    (Have you read about Azerbaijan and Israel lately?).

    Israel even has oil and gas!

    Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians is just an annoying sideshow to the greater dysfunctions in the Mideast. Even the Arabs don’t really care about the Palestinians any more.

    That said, I believe Israel would be better off if it stopped building these silly settlements and even dismantled many of them. But I don’t think this would make any difference. The Palestinians will inevitably reject any Israel peace overtures (as they have done repeatedly).

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @Anonymous
    , @raphee
  18. Randal says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Still seems a little thin to justify the flat assertion “a Jew, Kerry” in your original piece.

    Is it useful to apply some sort of “one drop” rule to identify jewish people, and for what purpose would this be appropriate? In the case of a public figure like Kerry, the only really useful reason to identify their racial/ethnic/religious/national affiliations would seem to be to identify potential conflicts of loyalty and interest, and there seems no good reason to anticipate such in the case of Kerry, who appears to have been raised Catholic without strong, direct links to his distant jewish relatives.

    Even the specific purpose in your piece, to claim Obama might have enjoyed the situation, doesn’t seem justified by it.

    During the visit he recalled finding out about his family’s Jewish roots and calling up his in-laws to tell them the news.

    “I called up Kathy’s parents and said ‘I’m Jewish,’ and they said, ‘Yeah we know’ and I said, ‘No, I’m really Jewish,’” he said in an interview with JTA at the time.

    These kinds of people would seem likely to be the archetypal “fair weather” jews, who will insist they are jewish now, in US and Israeli circles where it’s fashionable or advantageous to do so, but suddenly forget it once the pendulum swings back.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  19. Durruti says:

    Linh Dinh,

    A hard hitting and revealing essay. Congratulations on your courage.

    The successful passage of the United Nations Security Council Resolution is a glowing symbol that the Zionist Land Thieves and their Jewish backers in America, and throughout the world, have lost the blind support that they held from millions, thanks to the overwhelming brainwashing by means of the Jewish control of the Mainstream Media.

    The ugly truth of the Terrorist Zionist Land Thieves is being revealed (little by little).

    In the last days of 2016, the Palestinians have experienced their best moments, since their General Strike (for Independence), in 1936.

    Conversely, for the Zionist Land Thieves and their Jewish supporters, 2016 was the year their lies were best exposed. They have been condemned as the worst Terrorists since Hitler and the Nazi movement. It is the Zionists who are -Anti-Semites. The Zionists, and most Jews, hate Arabs. Arabs are Semites. Zionists and their Jewish supporters, who treat the Palestinian and other Arab peoples as the untermenschen, are the true Anti-Semites (most Jews are not Semites). My blond haired blue eyed German Jewish (mother’s side) family certainly are not Semites; some reside in Tel Aviv, having tossed their morals and radical politics 65 years ago.

    My mother (who was an early organizer of the Teacher’s Union and associate of Albert Shanker), insisted on us joining a Protestant Church, when I was 6 and my sister 5. Father was a Christian, and had no objections. Since then, my sister has joined the Mormons, and I, the Catholic Church. I follow the trajectory of Padraic Pearse and Pedro Albizu Campos, who joined the Catholic Church for spiritual and political reasons.

    As an Anarchist:

    I Respect All! And Bow to None!

  20. @biz

    Add to that: Just based on observing the modern dar al Islam, you’d have to conclude that a Moslem state never really becomes all that civilized.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  21. Mario64 says:
    @Clyde

    Muslim wolves?? What about the Americans??

    Albright interview:
    On May 12, 1996, Madeleine Albright (then U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations) appeared on a 60 Minutes segment in which Lesley Stahl asked her “We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?” and Albright replied “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it.” Albright wrote later that Saddam Hussein, not the sanctions, was to blame. She criticized Stahl’s segment as “amount[ing] to Iraqi propaganda”; said that her question was a loaded question;[63][64] wrote “I had fallen into a trap and said something I did not mean”;[65] and regretted coming “across as cold-blooded and cruel”.[66] The segment won an Emmy Award.[45][67] Albright’s “non-denial” was taken by sanctions opponents as confirmation of a high number of sanctions related casualties.[57][63]
    (Wikipedia)

    Iraq Sanctions imposed by UN Security Council at request of US and UK.
    New York Times. December 1, 1995
    UNITED NATIONS, Nov. 30— As many as 576,000 Iraqi children may have died since the end of the Persian Gulf war because of economic sanctions imposed by the Security Council, according to two scientists who surveyed the country for the Food and Agriculture Organization.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/world/iraq-sanctions-kill-children-un-reports.html

    Denis J. Halliday (born c.1941)[1] was the United Nations Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq from 1 September 1997 until 1998.
    I was driven to resignation because I refused to continue to take Security Council orders, the same Security Council that had imposed and sustained genocidal sanctions on the innocent of Iraq. I did not want to be complicit. I wanted to be free to speak out publicly about this crime.
    And above all, my innate sense of justice was and still is outraged by the violence that UN sanctions have brought upon, and continues to bring upon, the lives of children, families – the extended families, the loved ones of Iraq. There is no justification for killing the young people of Iraq, not the aged, not the sick, not the rich, not the poor.
    (Wikipedia)

    Hans von Sponeck
    After Denis Halliday resigned as UN Humanitarian Coordinator for Iraq in October 1998, Sponeck took over, heading all UN operations in Iraq and managing the Iraqi operations of the Oil-for-Food Programme.[1] In February 2000, Sponeck and Jutta Burghardt, head of the UN World Food Programme in Iraq, both resigned for the same reason as Halliday, to protest against the Iraq sanctions policy of the UN. Sponeck and Halliday wrote an article in The Guardian explaining their position, accusing the sanctions regime of violating the Geneva Conventions and other international laws and causing the death of thousands of Iraqis. (Wikipedia)

    From Global Research:
    US Sponsored Genocide Against Iraq 1990-2012. Killed 3.3 Million, Including 750,000 Children
    Statement by Professor Francis Boyle, Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal
    Approximately 3.3 million Iraqis, including 750,000 children, were “exterminated” by economic sanctions and/or illegal wars conducted by the U.S. and Great Britain between 1990 and 2012, an eminent international legal authority says.
    The slaughter fits the classic definition of Genocide Convention Article II of, “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part,” says Francis Boyle, professor of international law at the University of Illinois, Champaign, and who in 1991 filed a class-action complaint with the UN against President George H.W. Bush.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-genocide-against-iraq-1990-2012-killed-3-3-million-including-750000-children/5314461

    • Replies: @Druid
  22. alexander says:

    Dear Linh,

    The election of Barack Obama, eight years ago, was due to no uncertainty that he was the only qualified candidate who had been “on record” for having opposed the catastrophic Iraq war.

    And for many, there was a quiet understanding that his redemption of our nation for this awful crime was to be found in his completing the long standing “two state solution” and bringing peace not only to the Holy Land, but the world.

    Under Obama, the role of the United States was supposed to transform from that of a belligerent, criminal, war instigator…to a benevolent, powerful, peace maker.

    The preemptive “Nobel Peace Prize”, the “Cairo speech” and the visit by Joe Biden to Israel were all clear signals that redemption through peace, was the highest priority of his administration.

    The coterie of Neocon think tankers, oligarchs, Media moguls and special interest groups who ‘defrauded ‘ the American people into the titanic Iraq fiasco, were wholly discredited.

    Looking back, it may be one of our nations greatest tragedies that they were merely sidelined and not arrested on charges of committing the supreme “terrorist” act,……” lying us into a war of aggression”.

    One can only imagine where we would all be today, if they were the ones rightly reposited to Guantanamo Bay.

    Sadly, the Obama administration not only failed to close the “two state” deal, and bring peace, but continued (albeit reluctantly) with the pre-planned neocon rampage throughout the middle east, by “midwifing” the destruction of Libya, Syria and Yemen…..the continued collapse of Iraq…..and fully funding our decades old occupation of Afghanistan.

    Those in the know, are well aware, too, that the entire “Iran crisis”, was largely fabricated to DERAIL the completion of the implementation of the peace plan (for Palestine) by the P5 +1.

    King Bibi’s tactic of substituting the imminent Iran “nuclear threat”, for his having to make peace with the state of Palestine…worked like a charm.

    Obama was forced to spend the final three years of his administration hammering out the Iran agreement, letting any meaningful actions on the two state solution, slip by the wayside.

    The final counter blow that President Obama struck, for all these shenanigans, was the abstention at the UN last week on the condemnation of Israeli settlements.

    Although President Obama failed in the central task for which he was elected, he did permit a certain “glasnost” in Americans understanding of the Israel/Palestine conflict, which heretofore had been wholly “verboten”.

    Wholly Verboten !

    Obama played a double game…..the more Israel postponed making peace…the more “real” history of the dynamics of Israel/Palestine was permitted to be disclosed and digested by the American electorate …..and the world.

    The more King Bibi stalled the peace process…the more the curtain was “pulled back” on the actual horrors that befell the Palestinians…and the crimes committed against them, by the “morally perfect” Israel.

    The “truth will out” as Shakespeare once said.

    Consider that for nearly five decades, any mention by ANYONE, in US discourse, as to the reality of the “Nakba” and the brutal ethnic cleansing of Palestinians during the birth pangs of the “Jewish State” was understood as the very pinnacle of “Blood Libel” against ALL of World Jewry….the very quintessential definition of “Antisemitic Hate Speech”…baseless, bereft of fact, and wholly inaccurate.

    Israel was created as a” land without a people for a people without a land”…and ANY deviation from this understanding, was total “heresy”…..a moral abomination equivalent to “Holocaust denial”.

    Peace may have escaped us, but the very fact that Secretary Kerry was able to even mention the “Nakba”, in an open political forum on US soil , is quite astonishing….

    Quite astonishing indeed.

  23. TJM says:

    Watch “Christian” TV, it is a 24/7 advertisement to be loyal to Israel. From raising money to “help poor Israeli’s afford Passover”, to sponsoring trips to Israel to be milked form money.

    Or “military” TV, which I was observing the other day try to sell US on the idea that Syria was building “weapons of mass destruction”.

    Point is we are handed propaganda from every angle every minute of everyday, to support the criminals in Israel, and their Zionist supporters.

  24. Art says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    US geopolitical strategists view it as an asset. Huge military base in the middle of a super-important region. An extremely useful trouble-maker behind enemy lines.

    It is true that there are US Gentiles who think that way. The Project for a New America Century has Gentiles in it. Cheney, Rumsfeld, and others. But they are surrounded by Jews – Jews fund them.

    The same with defense contractors – many of them have Jews on their boards of directors. Boeing a proud born and bred quintessential State of Washington company moved its headquarters to high tax Jew infested Chicago – Hmm – Why?

    The same with the geopolitical CIA, state department, et al. They all have Jew minders.

    Without Jew interference, the Gentile geopolitical warmongers would be swamped by the American people’s natural tendency to be isolationists (Jew media – “isolationists” are evil and bad, irresponsible slackers).

    Without the heavy hand of AIPAC, would congress be so war minded – NO!

    It’s the Jews folks – they are the power behind the US geopolitical throne!

    Peace — Art

    • Agree: Mark Green
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  25. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    I think it goes beyond a potential land grab. Israel has sought to weaken any potential enemies by creating a chaotic mess. Countries with internal strife, civil war, don’t project strategic threats outside their borders. I know, it does sound like textbook demonic crap. The devil uses the very same tactics.

    Israel (neocons) is responsible for Iraq, Libya, now Syria. Initially the targets (Clean Break) included Iran as well, but Russia has since been added to the list. This is why you hear the neocon ventriloquist dummies (e.g., Fox News, Congress, etc.) calling Russia an enemy, calling for greater sanctions against Russia, Obama expelling Russian diplomats, etc. This after Russia is accused of hacking a private email server. But when China hacks a U.S. federal government agency and steals the data of millions of people with security clearances, well, crickets.

    Cybercrime
    OPM hack: China blamed for massive breach of US government data

    US Representative Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the House select intelligence committee, said: “The last few months have seen a series of massive data breaches that have affected millions of Americans.

    He called the latest intrusion “among the most shocking because Americans may expect that federal computer networks are maintained with state-of-the-art defences”.

    Hebrew Congressman Adam Schiff sounds so measured regarding China hack. Just beef up cyber security in response. But with Russia:

    Rep. Schiff: Congress will push for Russia sanctions if Trump undoes Obama’s action.

    We’ve got aluminum tubes, reports of yellow cake purchases, and grainy satellite photos with indefinable objects circled. Let’s declare war! What, you’re against defending America?? You traitor!

    How many countries must a people and its pseudo-country destroy??

  26. @The Grate Deign

    you’d have to conclude that a Moslem state never really becomes all that civilized.

    What a fascinating thing to say:

    A “Jewish state” has never, not once in the entire history of the Jewish-Yiddish-Hebrew-Yehud people, come into being as its own civilized state, under its own steam. Jews couldn’t even build their own temple, but needed help from Persians, the Romans

    “The foundation of the second Temple was laid in the second month of the second year after the Return, but no further headway was made for fifteen or sixteen years, owing to the active interference and positive misrepresentations to the Persian kings by the Samaritans to whom the Jews had denied a share in the work of rebuilding the House of the Lord. Meantime, the Jews themselves lost much of their interest in the reconstruction of the Temple; and it is only in 520 B.C. that the Prophets Aggæus and Zacharias succeeded in rousing them from their supineness. Pecuniary help came too from the Jewish community in Babylon, and also, a little later, from the Persian king. Thus encouraged, they made rapid progress and on 3 March, 515 B.C., the new Temple was solemnly dedicated. The Jewish leaders next started on the rebuilding of the walls of Jerusalem, and here again met with the hostility of the Samaritans, who complained at the Court of Persia .”

    • Replies: @The Grate Deign
  27. Dumbo says:

    You know what, I am of the opposite opinion. Israel doesn’t bother me so much, diaspora Jews bother me more. I think all Jews from Europe and the US could go to Israel, or Greater Israel for that matter, and stay there. Having their own nation would solve a lot of problems for us and for them.

    Let’s say Israel ends, where will all the Israeli Jews go? That’s right, US and Europe again. Or maybe China and Russia, who knows. Will they be well received? I doubt it. So for me they can remain in Israel.

    Of course, the problem Jews have with Arabs will remain, and it is probably no easy way to solve it.

    As for Palestinians, I don’t really think it was a country before, just a territory. I mean they are Arabs and many countries in that region had arbitrary borders created by the colonizers. What’s the difference between Palestinians, Jordanians and Syrians, for instance? Is there any ethnic difference (other than Sunni and Shia and other religious differences), or is it just the geographical region where they were born? (I really don’t know, I am asking).

    This does not mean of course that Palestinians are not suffering or being oppressed, or that they do not have legitimate grievances or nationalism. I think they do. But I really don’t know how to solve their problem.

    As for “stealing the land”, all countries in the Americas started like that, and a few in Europe too. I guess if Israel remains for a few hundred years it will be OK then? How long do you have to exist to become legitimate in the eyes of history?

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  28. iffen says:
    @Sherman

    a lefty professor told my class that Israel had only about twenty years left.

    No doubt this will coincide with the rise of Brazil as a super power.

    You didn’t harm the goat, did you?

    • Replies: @Sherman
  29. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sherman

    Linh Dinh thrives on pessimism. Who is that Stoic philosopher who advocated this view of life? If you have worst case scenario as your weltanschauung you’ll go through life pleasantly surprised by outcomes. Have you read his articles on how the U.S. is doomed (even with Trump in the White House) and will by a third-world clusterfuck pretty soon? Or his articles on Europe and Germany? Great stuff. It keeps my optimism in check.

  30. Clyde says:
    @jacques sheete

    The Israelis would never take your style of harebrained advice. This is why they are still around in an ocean of Muslims and doing great economically. They are an exporting super power and hi-tech giant including cutting edge medical high tech. What do the Muslims s give/sell to the world? Oil is about it and frackin is killing them.
    One day your life will be saved by an Israeli medical advance. Or some ailment put on hold or cured.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Druid
  31. 5371 says:

    Israel is empty and all the sleazy liars are here.

    • Replies: @iffen
  32. @Durruti

    Padraic Pearse and Pedro Albizu Campos

    Never heard of ‘em, but a brief Google search yielded some fascinating things. Will need to read some when I’m not pressed for time.

    They remind me of Jose Rizal, the Filipino freedom fighter. Also, it’s guys like these who make mockery of the IQ claims of the “superior” ones.

    LD, do you have any pieces on Vietnamese freedom fighters? I don’t know much about Uncle Ho, but he seems to have been quite a fine dude as well.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
    , @Durruti
  33. @Linh Dinh

    Dammit!!

    Does this mean that now I cannot openly ridicule Lurch without being accused of anti-Semitism?

  34. Another apartheid country, South Africa, had to remake itself after becoming delegitimized and universally condemned, so the end of Israel is within sight. Without this endless font of strife and mendacity, the world will be a much better place. Amen.

    Your prediction might have better prospects if the “remaking” of South Africa had worked a little better. As it stands – not so much.

    I think ye do err if you expect the Israelis to go gently into that night.

    Expecting the world to suddenly become “a much better place” is just silly.

  35. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @jacques sheete

    Hi jacques sheete,

    Communism sought to destroy the fabric of Vietnamse society, but thanks to its slackening, Vietnamese practices (good or bad) and traditions are going through a revival. It’s too big a topic to go into here, but my novel, Love Like Hate, is a portrait of 20th century Vietnam.

    A few years ago, I was one of the initiators of Wikivietlit, an online overview of Vietnamese literature. The project never took off, but here are four typical entries (I had to write myself):

    Nam Cao (1915-1951), real name Trần Hữu Trí, was a fiction writer, playwright and poet, as well as an educator and author of a memoir.
    Nam Cao.jpg

    He was born in Hà Nam, went to Nam Định at age 10 to study, got sick and had to return home before graduating from high school. He married at age 18, then took a train to Saigon a few months later to become a secretary for a tailor. In 1936, he published his first stories and poems.

    Returning North that year, he obtained his high school degree, taught at a private school in Hanoi until it was requisitioned by the invading Japanese Army in 1940, forcing him to go to Thái Bình, where he continued to teach. One of his five children died of hunger during the Japanese occupation.

    He joined the Vietminh resistance movement in 1943, then the Communist Party in 1948. He wrote about himself, “He was not suitable for the gun or the sword, so he would have to fight with the pen.” In 1951, he was caught by the French in Ninh Bình and executed.

    Nam Cao’s 1941 short story,”Chí Phèo”, is one of the most celebrated in Vietnamese literature, with its eponymous character an emblem for a type of hapless, desperate, downtrodden yet deeply human individual.

    Trần Vàng Sao (1942), real name Nguyễn Đính, is a poet, also a memoirist.

    He was born in Hue. Soon after, his father was killed by the French during the First Indochina War. During the Vietnam War, he contributed to the underground newspaper Thanh Niên Chống Mỹ [Youth against America]. He joined the National Liberation Front in 1965, lived in areas under its control, broadcasting propaganda until 1969, when he was injured and removed to the north.

    In spite of his allegiance to the Communist cause during the war–his pen name, “Vàng Sao,” means “Yellow Star,” a reference to the national flag–he has been blacklisted since 1972 for his candid depictions of social conditions inside Vietnam. He’s been harassed constantly, even imprisoned, his manuscripts confiscated.

    His poetic voice is bemused, ironic, deliberately banal, a reaction against the dogmatic bombast of many of his contemporaries. His poems have been translated into English and published in the journals American Poetry Review (Vol.28/No.1, Jan/Feb 1999) and The Literary Review (Winter 1999).

    Trần Dần (1926-1997), as a novelist, first rallied intellectuals to war against the French, then as poet inspired them to critical resistance to Communist Party domination of public and intellectual life.

    He was born in Nam Định and died in Hanoi. In 1946, he joined the Vietnamese Communist resistance against the French, but by 1953, had fallen out of favor with the Party. In 1956, he was jailed for three months in Hoả Lò Prison (better known to Americans as Hanoi Hilton), where he tried to commit suicide. In 1956-57, he was one of the key members of the dissident group Nhân Văn Giai Phẩm. During 1958-1960, he was condemned to hard labor for months at a time. From 1959 until 1988, he was banned from publishing, although he continued to write novels and poems. His poetry is among the most radical in the history of Vietnamese literature. Phạm Thị Hoài has edited a book of his journal entries Trần Dần – Ghi: 1954-1960 (Paris: TD Mémoire, 2001)

    He is translated into English and included in the anthology, Black Dog, Black Night.

    Nguyễn Chí Thiện (1939) is a poet, also the author of short stories and memoirs concerning his life as a political prisoner.

    He was born in Hanoi, the youngest of four children, then moved to Hải Phòng with his family in 1956. His father was a minor official at the court, his mother a small merchant. He contracted tuberculosis in his youth, and never studied beyond high school, although he read and educated himself, and became somewhat proficient in French. His troubles began in December of 1960. Substituting for a sick friend, he taught a high school class and noticed that the history textbook stated that the Soviet Union had defeated the Japanese Army in Manchuria, bringing an end to World War II. Oh no, he told his students, the United States defeated Japan when they dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He paid for this remark with three years and six months in labor camps. There, he met other literary men, composed poems in his head and learned them by heart. In 1966 he was returned to prison after a short release.

    This time the police charged him with composing politically irreverent poems that circulated in Hanoi and Hải Phòng. He denied it, and spent another eleven years and five months in labor camps. Authorities never brought him to trial, for lack of evidence, but they had the right man. The tubercular youth had become an outlaw whose every step and breath counted the beat of verses, poetry against oppression.

    In 1977, two years after Saigon fell, Thien and other political prisoners were released to make room for officers of the Republic of Vietnam. He had been composing poems all the while, and now seized the opportunity of freedom to write them down and bring his art to the world. Two days after Bastille Day, on July 16, 1979, he dashed into the British Embassy at Hanoi with his manuscript of four hundred poems. He had prepared a cover letter in French, but the embassy of France was too closely guarded.

    British diplomats welcomed him and promised to send his manuscript out of the country. When he got out of the Embassy, security agents waited for him at the gate. Dragged to Hỏa Lò prison, the famous Hanoi Hilton now empty of US flyers, he spent another twelve years in jail and prison camps, often in stocks in solitary darkness. It came to a total of twenty-seven years’ imprisonment. But meanwhile, the British diplomats kept their word. His manuscript collection, Hoa địa ngục [Flowers of Hell], appeared in two separate editions overseas.

    Nguyễn Chí Thiện had the great satisfaction of seeing a copy of his book waved in his face by his angry captors. He didn’t know that his poems also were translated into English, French, German, Dutch, Chinese, Spanish, and Korean. They were set to music by the great Phạm Duy and sung around the world. While their author lay in irons, Thiện’s poems won the International Poetry Award in Rotterdam in 1985. Six years later the poet was released from jail, as the socialist world collapsed in 1991. He lived in Hanoi under close watch by the authorities, but his international following also kept an eye on Thiện.

    Human Rights Watch honored him in 1995. That year he emigrated to the United States, due to the intervention of Noburo Masuoka, retired Air Force colonel, a career military officer who was drafted into the U.S. Army from an internment camp for Japanese Americans in 1945. After the normalization of relations with Vietnam, Masuoka was able to arrange special asylum for the poet in the United States. Thiện went to Virginia, the home of his brother, Nguyễn Công Giân, whom he had not seen for forty-one years. Giân himself had lived America only since 1993. A lieutenant colonel in the Army of the Republic of Vietnam, he had been taken to a re-education camp in the North right after the fall of Saigon in 1975, to remain for thirteen years.

    As if released from prison once more, Thiện wrote another book’s worth of poems from memory. The three hundred Vietnamese poems and some select English translations were published in 1996. In 1998, The International Parliament of Writers awarded Nguyễn Chí Thiện a three-year fellowship in France. He lectured around Europe while he wrote and published a collection of short stories, rooted in the reality of his years in Hỏa Lò prison.

    He returned from France to Orange County, California, where he took the oath of American citizenship in 2004. He continues to improve his health and speaks regularly on humanitarian issues of interest to the Vietnamese community.

  36. iffen says:
    @5371

    Your arguments are getting smaller and smaller.

    • Replies: @5371
  37. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Washington Post (1/1/17):

    Venezuelan Jews are moving to Israel to escape deepening poverty https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/venezuelan-jews-are-moving-to-israel-to-escape-deepening-poverty/2017/01/01/437d015b-8676-49ed-89d3-1edc0a57418e_story.html?utm_term=.474f561e792a

    …Last year, the U.S.-based Anti-Defamation League condemned a magazine for using anti-Semitic imagery on its cover that suggested the country’s economic problems were brought on by wealthy people of “Israelite origin.”

    “For several years we have seen anti-Semitic accusations and themes appear in Venezuelan public discourse,” said Jonathan A. Greenblatt, chief executive of the ADL, responding to the magazine’s cover in August. “This shockingly graphic manifestation of anti-Semitic imagery on full display on Venezuelan newsstands is unacceptable and repulsive.”…

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    , @Druid
  38. Durruti says:
    @jacques sheete

    On “Uncle Ho,” Google & pick & choose.

    He spent some time in Paris, and his movement were considered Allies (resisted the Japanese), during WW II, until betrayed after the war by the French, and, later, the United States Government.

    Zionist general, Moshe Dayan, recommended the U.S. use Nuclear weapons against the Vietnamese.

    Within the USA, little will change until we:

    Restore the Republic!

    * Most Americans never heard of Pedro Albizu Campos, Puerto Rican Nationalist, imprisoned by the American Government for 20 years and tortured. [Harvard Law School Grad. 2nd Lieut in the American Army. supporter of Irish Independence]

    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Albizu.jpg&imgrefurl=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Albizu_Campos&h=275&w=168&tbnid=Ch5w_RCJxYqu4M:&vet=1&tbnh=186&tbnw=113&docid=qO3EqaZ6ojFpDM&itg=1&usg=__RIo3TB5vsIfrxDEkcRage4Xz_dg=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZ2Pbp7KPRAhXGOyYKHeg-BlYQ_B0IcjAK

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwix1-OR76PRAhWGQiYKHbTXDDQQFggaMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPonce_massacre&usg=AFQjCNFmM5u2ioZx2QcKfNuUntxFpORN4g&sig2=a5yTSx-6r43nUaB_VO52mA

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwimg_qg7aPRAhWBVCYKHSy6C0cQFggaMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUnited_States_Capitol_shooting_incident_(1954)&usg=AFQjCNFn0UYFZCW3_JStOQjoN-Wij1SXHA&sig2=IbjMiQ9qrJGfo5vkMBGdD

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  39. @Art

    many of them have Jews on their boards of directors

    What you write seems silly to me. People in the picture on top of this page look like individuals I would identify as ‘Jews’. But those appear to be against supporting Israel. People sitting on boards of directors typically have no religion or ethnicity. They do business. Money is their religion. You think they’re fanatics loyal to some far-away piece of land, but in fact they’d probably sell their own parents for more stock options. Don’t make sense, sorry.

    • Replies: @Art
  40. Lorax says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    A person who is born to a Jewish mother is Jewish. It’s that simple.
    John Kerry was born to Rosemary Forbes, and his mother was Episcopalian.
    He is not a born (or converted) Jew. Has some Ashkenazi DNA though.
    As do Michael Douglass, Robert Downey Jr. and Sean Penn whose mothers
    were all Christian European. Ditto for Paul Newman. All well born IMO.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Hibernian
  41. Wally says: • Website
    @Lot

    Hasbarist hilarity.

    The Bible says so? LOL

    Actually Syria defended itself from that “shitty little county”.

    and:
    Leaked report: Israel acknowledges Jews in fact Khazars; Secret plan for reverse migration to Ukraine

    http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/leaked-report-israel-acknowledges-jews-in-fact-khazars-secret-plan-for-reverse-migration-to-ukraine/

    And why have supremacist Jews have been marketing the ’6,000,000′ lie since at least 1869?

    Must reads:
    Holocaust Handbooks & Documentaries

    http://holocausthandbooks.com

    and:

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:

    http://codoh.com

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Karl
  42. Bill says:
    @biz

    The restoration of Jewish independence in a tiny fraction of the land that was forcibly conquered and colonized by Islamic interlopers

    Uh, the Muslims did not forcibly conquer a Jewish, independent Palestine. They conquered it from the Christian Byzantines. Furthermore, the population of Palestine at the time wasn’t all that Jewish—the diaspora had already happened and had not been reversed. Prior to 1948, the Jews had not ruled Palestine nor been a supermajority of its popuation for a long, long, long time.

    • Replies: @biz
    , @mcohen
  43. @Lot

    That’s not the position of international law, and it doesn’t answer the question what Israel is supposed to do with the Palestinians in the West bank. Permanently keeping them as a subjected non-citizen population looks pretty bad to the rest of the world and expelling them won’t be possible absent some major international crisis. Granting them citizenship and equal rights however will destroy Israel as a Jewish nation state.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
  44. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Interesting. I recall opining 30+ years ago that maybe Israel should be looked on as America’s army in the Middle East and valuable as such when ME oil was still vitally important and the Cold War hadn’t ended. It is hard to see Israel as having the same value to the US now.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  45. @Durruti

    What courage? What an absurd cliché which I imagine the often observant Linh Dinh would disavow as embarrasing.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  46. Jizzraelis and Jizzlamists deserve each other. We just need to make sure they don’t impact us in any way.

  47. DB Cooper says:

    Ashkenazi Jews has as much rights to ‘return’ to Palestine as the Filipinos (who are overwhelmingly Catholic) has the rights to the Vatican.

    • Replies: @biz
    , @Hibernian
  48. Linh Dinh – I support those who would like you to stick to what you are very good at and know about instead of losing all persuasiveness for your rants by evident indifference to the facts. For example, calling Kerry Jewish is ridiculous as he is Catholic and his mother was not Jewish. Worse, Bashar al-Assad wasn’t in power till years after you have him meeting Clinton in 1994.

    Back to your knitting would be best.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  49. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    I do thank Durruti for his compliment. Let me put it this way, I used to teach at Bard College, which has an Israeli President, and once was even invited to talk to a class at Yeshiva University in Manhattan. Those kinds of opportunities are not exactly knocking down my door these days.

    For the record, Jews have been most instrumental in my life. In college, my three most supportive professors, Boris Putterman, Stephen Berg and Eileen Neff, were Jews, with Berg and Neff practically my surrogate parents, they nurtured me so much. Berg bought a painting of mine to put over his fireplace, and lent me money several times. My fiction publisher, Dan Simon, is Jewish, and Jewish Ron Unz has treated me better than any other webzine editor. Novelist Matthew Sharpe has talked me up in the fiction world. I can go on and on. Hell, my first date was with a Jewish girl, and I even lost my virginity to a Jew! I traveled through remote northwest Vietnam with photographer Mitch Epstein, and with 6-9 Lloyd Luntz, explored the Mekong Delta. Jews swarm me, fill my head, course through my veins. I can go on and on.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Hacienda
  50. @Wizard of Oz

    It is hard to see Israel as having the same value to the US now.

    It has no value to the US, the nation. Not now, and not during the cold war, which itself had no value to the US, the nation.

    It certainly does have value to the US, the global empire, with its main post-cold-war objective “to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival“. The resource-rich middle east, plus Iran, plus Turkey, plus – maybe – Russia and/or China – that would be a very powerful global competitor. Like I said: a very important geopolitical region.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  51. biz says:
    @Bill

    It doesn’t matter who they conquered it from. The Muslims still conquered it. They are not indigenous.

    In fact, when it comes to the land between the Med and the Jordan River, most of the Muslim tribes and lineages there are remarkably recent arrivals. When they think that Westerners aren’t paying attention they actually really play this up, because it is considered high status to be from a family that was recently located in the Hijaz and other originating places.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Druid
    , @Eagle Eye
  52. Of cooours

    jews and zionists are fatal enemies, lol!!

    only white zombie to believe in other bulshitism.

  53. biz says:
    @DB Cooper

    Any Jews have more right to live there than the Muslim tribes who conquered and colonized it relatively recently.

    In any case, it doesn’t matter what you want. Israel is there, and it is thriving.

    • Replies: @greysquirrell
    , @DB Cooper
  54. Hacienda says:

    LOL. This is the age of infiltration, subversion. Locally and globally. As an Asian, I see it every day. In California, at UCLA, WM/AF couples, Samsung, ESL, Korean/Philippino marriages. The Muslim lower reaches do it. WASPs and Blacks are artists at this game, Asian women, too. The Jews are hated for being both good at it and making $$$. How about Asian men starting to learn this game beyond the business, trading, rhetorical level?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  55. joe webb says:

    Jews swarm me, fill my head, course through my veins. I can go on and on. uh-huh.

    Better take a look at the people who gave you free speech, critical thinking, etc. It was not your jewish perfessers. I guess that your non-white pedigree was attractive to the white-killing jewish perfessers. Affirmative action for anybody but Whites.

    Joe Webb

  56. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Yes, it was Hafez al-Assad and not his son. Kerry is as Jewish as Obama is black, for his father was 100% Jewish. My confusion of Bashar with Hafez does not detract from my argument. Instead of nitpicking, do refute that.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  57. Agent76 says:

    Dec 29, 2016 Rabbis Support UN Resolution in front of White House

    Rabbi Dovid Feldman of Neturei Karta International, Jews United Against Zionism, speaks at a press conference in support of recent United Nations resolution 2334 condemning Israeli settlements as illegal. The event took place in front of the White House in Washington DC, on December 29, 2016.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  58. De Gaulle says:

    What is truth? Are there facts about Israel and Palestine all may agree on? Much discussion seems no more than speculation and conjecture.
    Forgotten former email so now am De Gaulle2

    • Replies: @FredFish
  59. Sherman says:
    @iffen

    Actually, when I was in college everyone was predicting Japan was going to take over the world with its invincible economy.

    Even my economics professor said this.

    A bunch of my friends took Japanese lessons and spent a semester in Japan because they thought learning Japanese would be important in the future.

    These predictions about Japan didn’t exactly turn out correctly.

    People predict all sorts of nonsense, just like Linh Dinh is doing now.

  60. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Oh please. You’re spending too much time around poets. Their worldview is quite atypical. Regular people, in America, in Europe, and I’d bet in East Asia too, they sympathize with the Israelis. They don’t care about the Palestinians MuhInigenousRights argument, no matter how valid the intellectuals think it is. They see Israel and then they see what the land of Israel would be without its Jews: another crappy Arab country full of honor killings and Koran-memorization institutes. Morally right or morally wrong, that’s how they think. Thus, until it becomes a European caliphate, no European politician will ever do anything to seriously isolate Israel, nothing like what was done to South Africa. The voters don’t want it, and, more importantly, Europe’s “Jewish communities” don’t want it. East Asia isn’t going to do anything, they wouldn’t hurt their own businesses just for “justice” for a bunch of camel herders. As for Latin America and Africa, who cares? They’re beggars, and you know what they say about beggars.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Santoculto
  61. mcohen says:
    @Bill

    Bill

    Every single invader that came to Jerusalem knew it was the spiritual land of the Jews.even before Islam,before Christianity.they came they conquered and they left.one by one.the latest invader is Saudi Arabia.it too will leave.2017 will see the fall of the Saudi Arabia.destroyed by those they attempted to enslave.

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @Ace
  62. Art says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    People (Jews) sitting on boards of directors typically have no religion or ethnicity. They do business. Money is their religion.

    Sorry – but I must disagree. It is naive to think that Jews do not work together – that they do not act together as a tribal team in money matters, social maters, and political matters. It is naive to think that they do not use their positions in organizations to do Jew political business.

    Fellow Jews put pressure on them to do Jew political and social business — end of story.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  63. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @biz

    In fact, when it comes to the land between the Med and the Jordan River, most of the Muslim tribes and lineages there are remarkably recent arrivals.

    unlike the chosen offspring of Abraham whose origins are in Ur of the Chaldees.

    “At the end of every Hebrew sentence that you utter
    There sits an Arab Smoking his hookah,
    Even if it begun in Siberia
    Or in Hollywood
    With Hava Hagilah.”

    Jews are history’s longest-living losers; a losing streak longer than the the Chicago Cubs by a multiple of 20, more or less.

    In US politics, “Dems” = “Jews.”
    And to observe how badly Dems are handling losing gives an insight into character traits of the core demographic of that political body. They lash out in anger; they leave destruction in their wake; they blame all others, and threaten all others with annihilation or extermination. Losing gracefully is not in their skill set, but it really needs to be, since winning fairly is also not their strong suit, not by a long shot.

    Our Irish mentors taught us to the “Humble in victory and gracious in defeat.”
    It was a formula that more often produced winning outcomes.

  64. 5371 says:
    @iffen

    No, just more concise. Meatier.

  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    dream on Anonymous.

    Ever pour salt on a slug?

    Ever tell a Jew you don’t like him?

    Same reaction.

    People don’t like Jews.
    Jews terrorize people to keep them from revealing their true beliefs.

    But the balloon has not been made that can withstand that pressure and expand forever. Eventually they gotta pop.

    KA — BLAM!

    Bye bye the Jew pressure machine.

    It’ll happen, that’s for shoah.
    In USA.
    Not IF but When, and how bad.

    Keep your wife and your children close.

  66. edNels says:
    @Robert Magill

    I don’t want to say it, but it seems to be an example of the Bad Seed theory. Born that way. Iron Jawed mfr’s… Stiff Necked!

  67. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Linh Dinh

    For the record, Jews have been most instrumental in my life. In college, my three most supportive professors, Boris Putterman, Stephen Berg and Eileen Neff, were Jews, with Berg and Neff practically my surrogate parents, they nurtured me so much

    Jews are great as intellectual middlemen. As a result they make the best popularizers. Hell, even Einstein was a popularizer. As renowned Cambridge University mathematician E.T. Whittaker detailed:

    In 1951 (Vol. 1) and 1953 (Vol. 2), he published an extended and revised edition of his book in two volumes. The second volume contains some interesting historical remarks. For example, it contains a chapter named “The Relativity Theory of Poincaré and Lorentz”, where Whittaker credited Henri Poincaré and Lorentz for developing special relativity,and especially alluded to Lorentz’s 1904 paper (dated by Whittaker as 1903), Poincaré’s St. Louis speech (The Principles of Mathematical Physics) of September 1904, and Poincaré’s June 1905 paper.[9] He attributed to Einstein’s special relativity paper only little importance, which he said “set forth the relativity theory of Poincare and Lorentz with some amplifications, and which attracted much attention”, and he credited Einstein only with being the first to publish the correct relativistic formulas for relativistic aberration and the Doppler effect. He also attributed the formula
    E=mc^{2} to Poincaré. In 1984 Clifford Truesdell wrote that Whittaker “aroused colossal antagonism by trying to set the record straight on the basis of print and record rather than recollection and folklore and professional propaganda,…

    But don’t bring this up in polite company. Einstein denial is one degree of separation from Holocaust denial. And it’s no use anyway, the narrative has already been solidly established.

  68. ”Ideological diversity” in campus [ more conservatives] = we need it

    why**

    to increase ”Israel-supporters” and theorics…

  69. @Agent76

    Gertrude Stein, Righteous Jew

    The Reverie of the Zionist

    -Gertrude Stein, 1920

    I know all about the war I have been in France ever since the peace.
    Remember what was said yesterday.
    We can think and we know that we love our country so.
    Can we believe that all Jews are these.
    Let us remember that the little bird of all is not the one that has the singing dell.
    It sings and it sings and a great many people say it is not pleasant.
    Is it likely that there is real grief.
    Anywhere there are beards and everywhere there are girls and all about there is a wealth of imagery.
    I saw all this to prove that Judaism should be a question of religion.
    Don’t talk about race. Race is disgusting if you don’t love your country.
    I don’t want to go to Zion.
    This is an expression of Shem.

  70. @Durruti

    “As an Anarchist:

    I Respect All! And Bow to None!”

    Right on brother! The notion of “State” and it’s built in violence has caused humanity far too much to continue believing in it. Israel is such a perfect example.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  71. @Clyde

    “For all the Palestinians who were displaced in 1948 an equal number of Jews were driven out of Muslim Arab nations. So lets call it even Steven. Or at least I will. Half of Israel’s population comes from these Middle East derived Jews and other half from European Jews.”

    Why should the Palestinians need to pay for others in the MidEast evicting Jews ; that’s the same as saying the Palestinians need to pay for what Germans did to Jews.

    • Replies: @biz
  72. @biz

    Palestinians are descended from the native people of that area who were converted to Islam ; converts from Christianity ,Judaism and whatever else beliefs were there prior to Muslim conquests.

    The Arab Muslim invaders did not wipe out the natives and replace them, they mixed with them but by and large the Palestinians are descended from the pre-Islamic invaders ; same for Egypt , Syria, Lebanon, North Africa. Do you think people in Turkey are from what is now Mongolia, just because they speak a Turkic language.

    • Replies: @Avery
  73. Skeptikal says:
    @Lorax

    “A person who is born to a Jewish mother is Jewish. It’s that simple.”

    It’s that simple for the tribal Jews.
    For everyone else it is nonsense.
    Half a person’s DNA comes from each parent.
    Legally, the nationality (if that is your pleasure) is generally determined by the father’s nationality.
    If the grandfather was a Czech Jew, then Kerry is 1/4 Jew.
    He should be proud of his heritage. (Of course, acknowledging Jewish forebears might have affected Kerry’s eligibility for Scull and Bones at Yale.)

    I always found it pretty hard to believe that neither Albright nor Kerry “knew” that they descended from Jews. Come on. Don’t these highly intelligent, well-educated people have a smidgin of curiosity? None of this would really matter nowadays if (1) the State of Israel had never been founded and (2) so many American secular Jews had not therefore been transformed into Zionists and Israel supporters and, actually, hysterics (“It could still happen here!!! They have a right to shoot those boys throwing rocks!!”) by the existence and demands of the State of Israel.

    • Replies: @sarz
  74. Skeptikal says:
    @Lot

    “genetic history,”

    This is a biggie. I have long thought that all Israeli Jews should have DNA profiles done and compare them to archaeological remains.
    That would quickly separate the sheep from the goats.
    But I am unaware of any program to systematically carry out DNA tests on the Jewish colonizers and settlers.
    In particular I would love to see the tests of the Jewish cowboys who have transferred from substandard digs in Brooklyn to a nice house in the the settlements, all on the Israeli (read American) taxpayer’s shekel.

    • Replies: @Alden
  75. Avery says:
    @greysquirrell

    {Do you think people in Turkey are from what is now Mongolia, just because they speak a Turkic language.}

    Yes, Turks – different from Kurds – in Asia Minor are descendants of UygurTürkoğlar nomad invaders from East and Central Asia.

    In fact Muslim Turk nomad invaders did wipe out the natives – indigenous peoples of Asia Minor (Armenians, Assyrians, Pontic Greeks (latecomers), others) – and replace them.

    You must have been living in a cave all these years not to have heard about the Armenian Genocide (and Assyrian Genocide, and Pontic Greek Genocide) by invadonomad Muslim Turks.

    There are certainly genes of indigenous peoples mixed in, in what are called Turks today: no surprise after several centuries of nomad Turks abducting indigenous Christian women and children and forcibly mixing their nomad genes with cultured peoples’.

    But at the core, Turks are the same savage nomad Turks that invaded Asia Minor around 1,000 A.D.
    They were nomad savages 1,000 years ago and still are.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @greysquirrell
  76. @Anonymous

    A lot of ”anonymous” here are indeed, hasboara’s

  77. Sam Shama says:

    [so the end of Israel is within sight]

    A defect of the lens caused by a flaw in the spherical curvature, resulting in distorted images, as light rays are prevented from converging on a common focus.

    Not your camera, nor the postcards; those instruments tend to fabricate the occasionally enjoyable but reliably despondent stories for depression seekers.

  78. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    Jesus, you’re stupid. That Times of Israel piece you linked to is satire. So either you didn’t actually read it or you didn’t understand it. So which is it? Are you irresponsible or just retarded?

    • Replies: @Santos
  79. biz says:
    @greysquirrell

    There is no such thing as a “Palestinian.” They are Muslim Arabs. For purely propaganda purposes some people devised the Palestinian identity in the 1970s, precisely to confuse Westerners into thinking that there is not an Arab-Jewish conflict but rather a Palestinian-Jewish one. I see that this sleight of hand worked on you.

    There is only an Arab-Jewish conflict and as Arabs they are responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Jews. Furthermore, in regard to what Nazis did, their biggest collaborators were in the Arab world, led by the Mufti Al-Husseni. So actually, Arabs are far from blameless for the Nazi holocaust.

  80. @Carlton Meyer

    Your link states, ” If the Syrian claim is correct, this incident is the first time that Israel’s Defense Forces (IDF) have used precision guided surface-launched missiles, a new type of weapon procured this year..” But is the Syrian claim correct? If it is an Israeli missile, how are you sure the IDF is firing it? All reports I’ve seen indicate that Israel does not intervene in the Syria war except when military goods are headed to Hezbollah.

  81. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    Could you also elucidate the source of the birthright of the former Soviet Jews on the Palestinian orchards and century-old Palestinian cemeteries ? What about the “good-German” behavior towards Palestinian civilians by the “most moral” IDF? The use of torture (even on the the underage) and the collective punishment against the NATIVE Palestinians by the newcomers?
    There is nothing new about Israelis’ behavior: the “most moral” imitates both the Kievan pogroms and Nazi’ tactics against “unworthy” and “unchosen.”
    When getting power in Russia one hundred years ago, in 1917, the commanding Jews were totally merciless towards Russian nobility and Russian clergy; by trying to exterminate the intellectuals, the Bolshevic power aimed at exterminating the important carriers of the native cultural traditions.
    In the US, the ziocons have been “arranging” the channeling of the country resources towards their dearest project of Eretz Israel, while spreading lies (see Ledeen and Iraq WMD) and removing the competent and principled America-firsters from the position of influence (see the story of the idiotic Douglas Feith and the superbly qualified Colonel Patrick Lang). The criminal policies in the Middle East – the policies that follow miraculously the Yinon Plan for Eretz Israel – have resulted in the ruined states of Iraq, Libya, and Syria and in the huge waves of desperate people (including the whole families with small children) running from the death and destruction. When you write, “Meanwhile Islam is conquering Europe via immigration,” you remind the readers that the “conquering of Europe by Islam” is the direct consequence of the wars against the formerly-functioning neighbors of Israel. Moreover, Europe would not suffer from the ongoing waves of low-IQ sub-Saharan migrants if Qaddaffi were still in power in Libya. But the members of PNAC had a plan for the Middle East.
    It is an open secret that the state of Israel does not want to have the prosperous and stable states among its neighbors. For instance, listen carefully to some prominent Israeli generals that articulate their preference for ISIS to sovereign Syria.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  82. @Art

    Fellow Jews put pressure on them to do Jew political and social business — end of story.

    I’m sure you have a point there, but I feel that you’re exaggerating it.

    First of all, you don’t even know whether people you’re talking about here are ‘Jews’ is the sense you’re using the word here – part of the ethnic network. They might have Jewish-sounding names – and have little or no connection to the ethnic culture/network.

    You’re operating with stereotypes, but stereotypes are unreliable and often obsolete, formed generations ago. An ‘Italian-American’ is not necessarily in the Mafia.

    Aside from that, people have all kinds of pressures. However, people in upper strata tend to have strong sociopathic tendencies (I believe), and to be motivated by what they see as their personal interests, rather any perceived group interest. This is how they get to the top – by doing what’s good for them.

    • Replies: @Art
  83. Fatalist says:

    “There is a feeling of hopelessness among the Muslim countries and their people. They feel that they can do nothing right. They believe that things can only get worse. The Muslims will forever be oppressed and dominated by the Europeans and the Jews. They will forever be poor, backward and weak.”

    The cure for this is the continued existence, and active presence of Israel in the Middle East. The refined and evolved Jew is a mighty source of inspiration and progress for all humanity. Sure, there are such individuals in all ethnicities, awkward way of saying the obvious in PC terms. The refined Jew is the salt of the earth, so empower him whenever and wherever you can. Bless Ron Unz.

  84. @Linh Dinh

    Thanks for educating me, and I apologize for my last remark especially. I had looked up ‘John Kerry Jewish’ upon reading your piece but couldn’t find anything. As the other commenter said, it may be a stretch to call him Jewish outright, but at least his facial physiognomy makes more sense now ;)

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  85. @Carlton Meyer

    “If Assad goes, so goes Syria. It would be a chaotic mess and Israel would be justified to invade to establish a huge “security zone”, now cleared of Syrians killed or refugeed. Jewish settlements would appear in these occupied territories, as they did in the Golan. None of this is disclosed or discussed in the American media. But it does explain why nearly all American political leaders chant “Assad Must Go!” yet refuse to explain why.”

    I had never heard of Greater Israel until I read a Wolf Blitzer article in the Jerusalem Post covering the push for an Israel from the Mediterranean to Mesopotamia. Apparently Zionists believe that most of the Middle East belongs to them, not just Israel, the West Bank, Occupied Territories and small parts of neighboring countries. I have no idea if the Israeli edition of the paper is different than the American edition, but I don’t believe that Blitzer would ever speak of Greater Israel to a non-Jewish, American audience. That’s a real problem.

    I really don’t care that much about the ME, and believe that many of our current problems are due to Jewish power in America, not Israeli influence. Put a hard check on Jewish power in the U.S., and Israel wouldn’t be the issue it is, and the ME would be much more stable. America would also be freer, less corrupt and likely more prosperous. At the very least, Americans would be better informed.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
  86. @German_reader

    Which is one of several reasons to support integrating the two peoples into one democratic state. Also, unlike the so-called ‘two-state solution’ integration is actually possible. Again, South Africa provides the template. I never said it was perfect…

    • Replies: @German_reader
  87. @Anonymous

    Will this miracle work for the USA too?

  88. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Randal

    Quit being so melodramatic and politically correct.

    You act like Jews themselves don’t throughly investigate a person’s background for jewish heritage to see if they will be good to the tribe.

    Isreal itself is a racial state. They absolutely consider how jewish you are for citizenship and what positions you will hold in society.

    • Replies: @Randal
  89. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Clyde

    Ohhhhhhkay Clyde.

    So we gotta give the Jews the keys to the castle because if not the muslims will conquer us?

    The Jews are the ones who destabilized Muslim countries to make room for the greater Isreal project, and Jews are the people who are forcing western countries to accept Muslim immigrants.

    Sounds like Jews are just manufacturing problems for the west to justify further Jewish rule.

    No thanks.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  90. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot

    Did you really just say that the Bible gives you the rights to that land? Lol

    Jewish genetics trace back to Europe as much as the holy land.

    And as far as right of conquest, you actually got that part right. But what was stolen can be taken back.

    • Replies: @Lot
  91. @OilcanFloyd

    I have no idea if the Israeli edition of the paper is different than the American edition

    Usually the English-language versions are similar if not identical. It’s the Hebrew editions which are different. The redoubtable Israel Shahak made a cottage industry back in the day of comparing & contrasting English- and Hebrew-language versions of Israeli media. It was fun, and scary.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  92. RobinG says:
    @Avery

    LOL.

    This squirrel “must have been living in a cave all these years” not to anticipate a smackdown coming from Avery!

  93. Another apartheid country, South Africa, had to remake itself after becoming delegitimized and universally condemned, so the end of Israel is within sight.

    This type of rhetoric is meaningless without a timeline.

    Yes, the world think the Land of Israel rightfully belongs to the Palestinians. What else is new?

    It doesn’t matter what the gentiles say, it only matters what the gentiles *do*. And the last 100 years have shown that the gentiles aren’t going to do jack shit about our dispossession of the Palestinians. Polls show that in every non Islamic country, even ultra anti semitic places like Germany, Greece and Hungary, the population overwhelmingly believes their countries should be neutral.

    And even if the world’s non Islamic countries decided that they were going to try to take on Israel, which will never happen, what could they do anyway? The only country that has the ability to project force against Israel is the US, and by the time the US turns against Israel it will have long lost it’s ability to project military power globally.

    I don’t have a problem with people saying that Israel is going down. But when people refuse to give a timeline or explain how a country as powerful as Israel is going to be destroyed, it is just pathetic and annoying.

  94. @Kyle McKenna

    I guess that Blitzer was counting on the fact that non-Jews outside of Israel don’t read the English version of the JP, and that the MSM in the U.S. would not see or report on his article.

    Correction: English not American edition.

  95. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Kyle McKenna

    Hi Kyle,

    I’m going to change my name to Fergus O’Breasail and run for Boston City Council!

    It is curious that Fritz Kohn [Cohen, Kahan, Cohn] decided on an Irish surname, since the Irish were very low on the totem pole in 1905 America, when the newly minted Fred Kerry arrived in Chicago.

    Linh

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    , @Anonymous
  96. @Kyle McKenna

    The Israelis will never agree to accept Palestinians as citizens with equal rights (which would obviously be madness), and they’ve got nukes…who’s willing to risk the Samson option for the sake of the Palestinians? I don’t think the comparison with South Africa is that meaningful, whites there were a much lower percentage of the population.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
  97. @Linh Dinh

    Well, that’s what the Irish would have you believe. But in Boston, for example, the first Irish-born mayor (Hugh O’Brien) was elected in in 1884–more than twenty years earlier–and went on to serve four terms.

    The first Irish-born mayor of in New York was four years earlier–Wm Russell Grace in 1880.

    Chicago’s first Irish-American mayor, with them so very low on the totem pole, was John Patrick Hopkins, elected in 1893 (although some claim Alexander Lloyd of 1840 was also of Irish descent).

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  98. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Linh Dinh

    I’m going to change my name to Fergus O’Breasail and run for Boston City Council!

    It is curious that Fritz Kohn [Cohen, Kahan, Cohn] decided on an Irish surname, since the Irish were very low on the totem pole in 1905 America, when the newly minted Fred Kerry arrived in Chicago.

    LOL. I live in Boston. I’ll look for and vote for you four times Fergus O’Breasail. But I think your name change should be “Liam Dineen”.

  99. FredFish says:
    @De Gaulle

    Truth: if peace were declared today and Palestine layed down all their arms, tomorrow they would enjoy their new peace. If Israel were to disarm today, tomorrow they would be massacred.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  100. Wow, just look at Richd Kerry’s photo. It’s as someone said when the NYT ‘exposed’ Madeleine Albright’s shocking lineage: “Are you really surprised? Just look at her!”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kerry

    I definitely got edumacated today ;)

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  101. Randal says:
    @Anonymous

    Quit being so melodramatic and politically correct.

    Grow up.

    You act like Jews themselves don’t throughly investigate a person’s background for jewish heritage to see if they will be good to the tribe.

    Isreal itself is a racial state. They absolutely consider how jewish you are for citizenship and what positions you will hold in society.

    What has this to do with what I wrote?

    Are you trying to suggest that Kerry would be considered “jewish enough” for Israeli citizenship and therefore that justifies Linh Dinh’s suggestion that Obama would have take extra satisfaction in having “a jew” deliver his message? If so, then you would have been better concentrating on explaining yourself better rather than slinging childish, inaccurate and over-defensive accusations.

  102. Alden says:
    @Skeptikal

    It’s pretty well known that many, many of the Russian “jews” who immigrated to Israel and America are not Jews at all.

    Many of the Russian not Jews only live in Israel a few months of the year. The rest of the time they are home in Russia.

  103. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    A colleague, Jack (& his wife) just had a baby.

    Jack’s parents were divorced ~10 years ago, when Jack was in mid-20s.

    Jack’s father Mike re-married, to Emily.

    Episcopal church bulletin where Mike & Emily attend announced that Emily is grandmother of Jack’s child.

    If that were a synagogue instead of an Episcopal church, would lineage be traced to the legal (grand)mother, the biological (grand)mother, or the religious (grand)mother?

    • Replies: @Karl
  104. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Kyle McKenna

    Hi Kyle,

    I have Thomas Sowell’s Ethnic America in front of me. I quote from the chapter on the Irish:

    One of the earliest and most spectacular rises of the Irish in America was in politics. Block voting of the Irish in the big cities, where they were often the largest single group, assured them political influence, evident as early as the 1830s.

    From the same chapter, though, there is this:

    As late as 1906, there were more Irish than Italian paupers, beggars, and inmates of almhouses, even though the Italians arrived a generation later and were generaly poorer at the turn of the century.

    A couple decades ago, I found a guide book to New York from around 1900, and it said there were many Chinese men married to Irish women, since both groups were socially at the bottom. Moving so many times, I no longer have this curious book to cite from, unfortunately.

    Linh

  105. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @FredFish

    FredFish, that is so very sad.

    How can we help?

    What comfort can we give to poor beleaguered Israelis, doing everything they can possibly do to keep from being massacred?

    Oh.
    Oh.
    Just so
    very
    depressing.

    How can Israelis possibly draw a breath, and make it one day to the next knowing that if they got rid of their nuclear weapons, their nuclear subs, their tanks, drones, airplanes, checkpoints, high-tech weapons, DIME, phosphorus munitions, Skunk bombs, sonic bombs they might be massacred??

    How can ANYONE live a happy life, frolic on the beach, carry multiple passports and keep houses on several different landmasses with the realization always, always hanging over his head like the sword of Damocles that if the entire population of young Israelis were not armed to the teeth and trained to kill children, then Israelis might be massacred??

    aaaahhhhh.

    so
    very
    sad.

    sigh

    • Replies: @mcohen
  106. Clyde says:
    @annamaria

    You are another member of the Yinon cult. As if something this obscure nobody Yinon said 30 years ago has guided Israeli policy. Your Rosetta stone for understanding Israel……hilarious!

    Cutting through your windbag post….. The equation is very simple, roughly 800,000 Arabs were displaced when Israel was born. After they attacked the Jews and lost that war. Many of them fled planning on returning after the Arab armies massacred the Jews. But the Jews won and Israel was created. Prior to this these Jews were called Palestinians and today’s Jerusalem Post newspaper was called the Palestine Post.
    Before and after Israel’s creation Jews were being forced to live oppressive dhimmi lives in the Arab Muslim nations. Iraq had 300,000 Jews. As revenge for the creation of Israel the Arab Muslim nations made life lots worse for Jews. 800,000 Jews were were forced out with most taken in by Israel. Most left without any money or compensation for anything they owned.

    This looks like a population exchange to me. There were other ones after WW2 such as Germans being kicked out of Russian lands they had farmed and lived in for generations.

    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Bill Jones
  107. Karl says:
    @Wally

    42 Wally> The Bible says so? LOL

    so you also reject American-Indian claims that they should be able to exclude others, and shut down usage of – their “sacred places” ?

    Is Linh Dinh cool with me tearing up Buddhist sacred places in Vietnam?

    • Replies: @Wally
  108. “the end of Israel is within sight”

    On the contrary, Israel has never been stronger than they are right now.

    They have a nationalist/social conservative government and culture, a high birthrate among their core ethnic group, an immigration system designed to bolster their core ethnic group, and the world’s best border fence; their core ethnic group is the majority, and likely to remain the majority.

    They are militarily unassailable. They have the strongest conventional military in the Middle East, and the only nuclear arsenal in the Middle East. Of their 4 main foreign enemies, Iraq, Libya and Syria have been completely destroyed, and Iran is distant. Furthermore, the Syrian Civil War has driven a wedge between Shiites and secular Arab nationalists on the one hand, and radical Sunnis on the other – permanently weakening hostile militant groups.

    Neither America nor Europe want to impose stringent economic sanctions on Israel; barring massive demographic change or a radical change in popular attitudes, they probably never will.

    The only real danger Israel faces is her friends in the West. In both America and in Western Europe, the staunchest supporters of Israel are also the most flamboyant supporters of invade-the-world/invite-the-world. This is terribly short-sighted.

    As I made clear above, Israel no longer needs the support which America can no longer afford. America needs to boost exports, yet the friends of Israel support job-killing sanctions against Russia, Syria and Iran. America is facing a budget crisis, yet the friends of Israel support massive aid to Israel, including bribes to Egypt and Jordan to maintain an Israel-friendly stance, and aid to Syrian rebels. Americans want justice for the terrorist attacks committed by radical Sunni groups such as Al-Qaeda and ISIS, yet the friends of Israel want wars against the enemies of Al-Qaeda and ISIS – Saddam Hussein, Qaddafi, Assad, Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis etc. This foreign policy, which clearly doesn’t put America First, hasn’t turned the masses against Israel – at least, not yet. But if this disastrous foreign policy continues, despite the fact that Israel no longer needs this assistance, and despite the hopes raised by the America First campaign promises of President-Elect Trump, a nasty anti-Israel backlash is a strong possibility.

    Similarly, pro-Israel sentiment in America and Western Europe could change to reflect 3rd world anti-Israel sentiment, if the mass immigration supported by the misguided friends of Israel continues.

    If President-Elect Trump is a true friend of Israel, he will ignore the misguided Israel lobby and implement his promise to make America First the theme of his presidency – in trade, immigration, and foreign policy – and he will encourage his European counterparts to also rule as nationalists. Israeli nationalism will no longer be so open to criticism when other nations are also embracing nationalism.

    And if, in a future crisis, Israel needs more fund’s than her tax base and credit can provide, then her wealthy friends such as Paul Singer and Haim Shaban should consider giving directly to Israel, rather than bribing American politicians to squander taxpayer dollars.

    • Replies: @SFG
  109. Durruti says:
    @biz

    Yipes!

    biz (Netenyahooo) wrote:

    Propaganda:

    1. “There is no such thing as a “Palestinian.”

    2. “They are Muslim Arabs.”

    3. ” people devised the Palestinian identity in the 1970s, ”

    The Truth:

    1. Hmmm! Essentially, an American is someone who was born and raised somewhere in America; and a Palestinian is someone who was born and raised in Palestine.

    2. Half of all Palestinians are Christians.

    3. There was the Palestinian General Strike and insurrection (for national independence) in 1936. Link enclosed below. There are books and dozens of internet links for one to learn about Palestinians.

    https://worldhistoryproject.org/1936/arab-revolt-in-palestine

    The Palestinian General Strike and the Insurrection that followed, were brutally repressed by the British Colonial Government. Many thousands of Palestinian rebels were killed – in heavy fighting.

    Note the date of the strike-1936, precedes the Netenyahooo-biz’ offered date of 1970. Hell; it precedes World War II.

    Pay attention Now!!!

    The Palestinian National struggle preceeded the Holocaust, exaggerated Holocaust, or so-called Holocaust (you choose your favorite). In 1936, Zionist Terrorists sided with Colonial England against the legitimate national aspirations of the Palestinians. Later, the Zionists would oppose the national aspirations of the South African People, and later, Vietnam, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, all of Europe, and in recent decades they have suborned the very national existence
    of the American people.

    Palestine survives by a fingernail. America survives slightly better.

    We must Restore Our Republic!

    • Replies: @biz
  110. Karl says:
    @Anonymous

    > Episcopal church bulletin where Mike & Emily attend announced that Emily is grandmother of Jack’s child

    Most likely, a secretary in the church office wrote that. Churchian statements of such a nature often tend to revolve around who’s gonna make the donations which occur from the kid’s future “lifecycle celebrations”

    Before it is anything else, religion is a business. Including the YHWH-cult.

    I can recommend “Temples, Tithes, & Taxes” at amazon. I forget the authoress’ name. She’s a CPA-turned-religion-professor at a small Protestant seminary in Pennsylvania, if memory serves.

    Throughout the ancient middle east, centralized temple buildings encompassed a wide range of routine economic activities. EG, writing shipping insurance, issuing documentary letters of credit, acting as bonded warehouses, etc.

    The humans of that era were not crazier than those of now. These practices arose because it made the most sense in their (pre-technology) world.

  111. mcohen says:
    @Anonymous

    Anon

    From hasbara central.comfort would be much appreciated.just bend over and let bibi drive.he knows the way

  112. Clyde says:
    @Anonymous

    The Jews are the ones who destabilized Muslim countries to make room for the greater Isreal project, and Jews are the people who are forcing western countries to accept Muslim immigrants.

    If you stepped back for a moment you might see how silly you sound. So Jews forced Germany and Sweden to take in all those Muslim migrants in the last two years.? Angela Merkel is Jewish?
    What is really going on is that Israel does a good job of fending off the Muslim hordes while the leftist Europeans invite them in via mass immigration invasions.
    ________
    According to the Pew Forum, the total number of Muslims in Europe in 2010 was about 44 million (6%),[32] excluding Turkey. The total number of Muslims in the European Union in 2010 was about 19 million (3.8%).[32] Approximately 9 million Turks are living in Europe, excluding the Turkish population of Turkey, which makes up the largest Muslim immigrant community in Europe.[33] However the real number of Muslims in Europe is not well-known.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
    , @K.J.
  113. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @n230099

    Talk about comparing oranges and apples.

  114. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Even If Israel vanished tomorrow and the world found a cheap and plentiful alternative to oil, the Arab-Muslim world would still be dysfunctional, unfree and openly hostile to all the non-Islamic areas of the world. Islam was violent, predatory and expansionist from its very first beginnings. Muslims have the greatest difficulties living in harmony and peace with other peoples and as soon as their numbers reach a critical mass they cause chaos and even civil war in other countries.

  115. SFG says:
    @John Gruskos

    I basically agree. I’m sick of giving Israel a blank check, though I don’t think they’re a major threat to the USA.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
  116. @Mao Cheng Ji

    To say the cold war was of no value to the nation is a very curious way of expressing something and your “something” is unclear. Obviously wars tend to reduce value but that is hardly the point when for whatever reason you are in a major contest for control of the world (even if you would see it as just precautionary and therefore defensive but your opponent appears to have a messianic vision) and there is such a failure of trust or basic agreement on principles that you can’t let your guard down.

    You seem to assume a continuation of American delusions and anachronistic beliefs. The combination of countries you posit is entirely implausible, the resources of the Middle East are only peripherally relevant to US prosperity and economic power (think fracking and renewables) and there is no prospect of China not emerging as a new rival (though much more rationally concentrated on its particular interests). Regardless of China or rivalry, Russia should have been enlisted as a friend with a warm and generous embrace from 1990, a point you may well agree with.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  117. biz says:
    @Durruti

    Haha, I didn’t get past this part:

    2. Half of all Palestinians are Christians.

    Actual stats:
    West Bank: Christians are 1.0-2.5%
    Gaza: Christians are 0.7%

    FFS, are you anti-Israel idiot/liars even trying anymore?

  118. Bill says:
    @mcohen

    Sure, but it certainly isn’t the spiritual land of the Talmudists.

  119. Hacienda says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Fascinating LD. You’re becoming alt-left Steve Sailer of this site. Steve, too, has mentioned his deep incubation with Jews. Jews seem to occupy the social center of this planet. For the record, my first girlfriend was Jewish.

  120. @Clyde

    So Jews forced Germany and Sweden to take in all those Muslim migrants in the last two years.? Angela Merkel is Jewish?

    She isn’t, nor were FDR, LBJ, Reagan, Clinton, or Bush. And yet

    If you stepped back for a moment you might see how silly you sound.

    Physician, heal thyself.

  121. @Anonymous

    Very interesting. I was aware of Poincaré’s possible priority but with fewer specifics. But I wonder if you are implying that Jews are popularisers rather than creators or original thinkers? The fact that Jews were still, in the late 19th/early 20th centuries emerging fully from the medieval to the Enlightenment (if only because so many were still illiterate) would explain why most new science was still non-Jewish. You aren’t really trying to say that all those Jewish Nobel Prize winners are basically overrated and just a class above talented plagiarisers are you?

    To my mind one of the greatest of Nazi evils was the loss of brainpower they inflicted on the world by their killing of so many Jews. Would you disagree? And on the ground that they would basically have been just popularizers?

  122. @SFG

    I’m sick of giving Israel a blank check, though I don’t think they’re a major threat to the USA.

    How many more ruinous wars against Israel’s latest enemy du jour will it take before the threat becomes clear? Please permit me to remind you that the ruination isn’t just economic. It’s also political and moral. Once upon a time the USA could credibly claim moral leadership on the world stage. Will it ever again be able to make that claim?

  123. Svigor says:

    Unchecked, it will gobble up even more of its neighbors’ territories.

    I tend to agree. If able to keep their birthrate high, I think Israeli Jewry will eventually start colonizing the surrounding territory (Eretz Israel), in the name of lebensraum (though I doubt they’ll use that word). They’ll expand their settlement-building project into western Jordan (east bank), southern Lebanon, southwestern Syria, and Egypt (Sinai). It will all be done as a “private” enterprise by “individual” Jews, though they will use their military to thwart any attempted move against the settlements by militaries in the countries targeted. They will use Arab cutouts to buy, and regime-change against any attempt to nationalize the land. PMCs, private militias, etc., will handle day-to-day security. It will be done one country at a time, so as to avoid biting off too much to chew. When local Arabs inevitably turn to terrorism and low-intensity conflict, the Jewish locals will put the Apartheid boot down in their areas, as a “defensive” measure. The Zionist PR machine will spin it all as a story of “Jews persecuted by Muslims.” This will continue as long as their birthrate is high, and no interested party has nukes.

    This is all assuming the Israelis don’t come up with some innovative way to turn the Negev into fertile land (say, truly cost-efficient solar power), which is probably at least as likely. In that case, they’ll develop the Negev first, but they’ll have a huge problem on their hands, because the Arabs will do the same with their deserts, and churn out a couple billion kids.

    If Assad goes, so goes Syria. It would be a chaotic mess and Israel would be justified to invade to establish a huge “security zone”, now cleared of Syrians killed or refugeed. Jewish settlements would appear in these occupied territories, as they did in the Golan. None of this is disclosed or discussed in the American media. But it does explain why nearly all American political leaders chant “Assad Must Go!” yet refuse to explain why.

    Indeed, this would seem plausible, and to mesh well with the plan outlined above.

    The very next day, Israel announced it would build 3,000 more homes for Jews in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem. Screw the world, responded Israel.

    It is kind of interesting how Israeli Jews have openly framed their settlement-building as an assault on the world, “revenge” against their enemies, etc. It seems to be their response to every offense. Which sort of makes it obvious that their settlements are offensive (as Boobie is fond of saying, “Jews don’t turn the other cheek”)…

    The Muslims will forever be oppressed and dominated by the Europeans and the Jews. They will forever be poor, backward and weak.

    Well, they might consider sorting out their rulers, who keep fighting amongst themselves.

    For all the Palestinians who were displaced in 1948 an equal number of Jews were driven out of Muslim Arab nations. So lets call it even Steven.

    Well, no. The Palestinians should not have to pay for what their neighbors did, any more than they should have to pay for what the Europeans did.

    You just say this. Both the Bible, genetic history, and the right of conquest that established the borders of nearly every country all say the West Bank is rightfully Israel’s.

    The Golan Heights were taken after Syria twice invaded Israel.

    Scratch a moderate rightist, find a radical Zionist?

    The Bible isn’t relevant to the rest of the world, or to Israel’s neighbors. In fact, its use as a factor in American foreign policy is probably a violation to the Holy Separation of Church and State, as practiced by modern diaspora Jewry, and the American left.

    Genetic history? Like, Jews were far less than 2% of America’s founding, so their population should be pared (way) back, to be in line with genetic history? That kind of genetic history?

    The right of conquest isn’t much of a justification. It works for Zionists, but few else. And it’s ye classic double-edged sword.

    US geopolitical strategists view it as an asset. Huge military base in the middle of a super-important region. An extremely useful trouble-maker behind enemy lines.

    Not really. South Africa was a huge military base in an important region, an extremely useful trouble-maker behind enemy lines, and the American left (led by Jews, as always) threw them under the bus. They were much more loyal and cooperative than the Israelis.

    Strategic issues are secondary.

    During the 1980′s as house parents in a busy international youth hostel in Key West, Florida my family lived with hundreds of Israeli young men and women most of whom were Sabras (native born). What was most striking about the Israelis, compared to other groups we lived with, was the flat personal aspect and steely visage of these young men and women. Many carried, at a tender age, what has been described as the thousand-yard stare of veteran combatants.

    Sort of like the Wehrmacht, or the SS.

    linh

    i have been enjoying your postcard series because they describe real people.so why write this article.did you do your research.have you been to israel.
    however when i got to the end and read the last sentence i unbuckled a chuckle.
    amen indeed

    Never speak of anywhere you’ve never been? Where does this obtain? Certainly not among Zionists, who have an awful lot to say about Arab populations they’ve never lived among. Agnostic on the Moon landings, are we? Get your Zionist friends in line, before you try to police us.

    “Another apartheid country, South Africa, had to remake itself…”

    And yet Americans that separated the indigenous peoples here putting them on their so called ‘reservations’ see no irony in the fact that they themselves live in settlements on occupied land. Oh yes, you’ll now hear that we ‘bought’ or ‘traded’ for some of the land and that’s true…well to the extent that we dealt with the ones we didn’t murder as we killed our way across the land. On the bright side, we now allow them to have casinos and the President just took millions of acres of Nevada and Utah into federal custody to preserve, in part, ‘sacred’ sites of our own ‘palestinians’. Yay America….boo Israel.

    I’d be willing to bet that at least 90% of diaspora Jews are on “team Amerind” when it comes to the American colonial debate. Just like they’re on “team black minority” vs. the white majority. But they suddenly switch values 180 degrees, when it comes to “team Palestians” and the Israeli colonial debate. They’ve got no room to talk about the irony. Just listen to you play the Zionist fiddle for the oppressed Indian natives, FFS.

    The preservation of that independence in the face of four wars of genocidal intent started by the Arabs

    Frequent Zionist lie, made no more true by their endless repetition.

    Today Israel, in spite of being nine miles wide, without natural resources, and surrounded by barbaric failed states, is a modern democracy with a human capital based economy. It has managed against all odds to not only preserve but thrive, including absorbing the Jews who were ethnically cleansed from Muslim countries which now form the majority of its population.

    Israel is an Apartheid state that continually makes a ruin of Jewry’s reputation. Shows all their leftist posturing (in the diaspora, of course) for the lie it is.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Gabriel M
  124. @Linh Dinh

    Interesting.

    there were more Irish than Italian paupers

    But there were also more Irish than Italian immigrants, for several decades anyway. So is Sowell talking numbers or percentages?

    Strive to keep your hard copies (or at least scanned versions) of old material, particularly that which is politically ‘out of style’…as we’ve seen lately, gatekeepers such as Google and Facebook are only too happy to delete far more recent material from the public record, if it’s politically ‘inconvenient’ material.

    People deride me my vast collection of old books. But they are at the mercy of political fashion, not that that bothers them, or is even apparent to them. All this in the FWIW dept of course.

  125. @Linh Dinh

    There is too much good stuff in the comments, especially yours, for me to continue my criticism but I do note that your comparison of Kerry and Obama fails in an obvious way that I would have thought you would have noticed. Kerry in no way identifies as Jewish but Obama has made much of his black identity and sympathies.

  126. @Avery

    What has the Armenian genocide got to do with DNA ancestry of Anatolian Turks?

    You are wrong ; the bulk of the genetic ancestry of modern day Anatolian Turks is a carry-over from pre-Turkic inhabitants. Population genetic studies pegged East Asian Y-Dna at around 8%.

    Just look at the phenotype of Turkic speaking people like the Uighurs, Kazakh , Krygz and Turkmen and compare them to Anatolian Turks. Vast majority of Turks do not have that East Asian epicanthic eyefold.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @L.K
  127. nsa says:

    Notice the way the entire KM (kosher media) is now just lacerating Obongo and Johnny Ketchup? Anything happen lately to engender all this jooie bile and hatred? Funny, can’t think of anything right off…….

  128. @German_reader

    I don’t think the comparison with South Africa is that meaningful, whites there were a much lower percentage of the population.

    Also FWIW, whites were a much, much higher percentage of the population in SA 50 and 100 years ago, before out-migration of whites and in-migration of blacks intensified. Moreover, the vastly higher birth rates of blacks accelerated the effect even more.

    So the comparison remains germane, if you take your three dimensions and add time. Where the comparison falls down is with the extreme violence which Israelis have visited upon the Palestinians. If the Apartheid authorities had slaughtered 1200-1500 Africans at a time, as Israel has done in Gaza and Lebanon, boycotts and divestments would have been the least of their worries.

    • Replies: @Gabriel M
  129. Hibernian says:
    @Lorax

    Reform Judaism has begun to recognize patriarchal descent lately.

    • Replies: @Alden
  130. Svigor says:

    The refined and evolved Jew is a mighty source of inspiration and progress for all humanity.

    Almost as inspiring as the Aryan Race and their Third Reich.

    There is no such thing as a “Palestinian.” They are Muslim Arabs. For purely propaganda purposes some people devised the Palestinian identity in the 1970s, precisely to confuse Westerners into thinking that there is not an Arab-Jewish conflict but rather a Palestinian-Jewish one. I see that this sleight of hand worked on you.

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Indeed, indeed!”

    There is no such thing as an “Amerind,” “Native American,” or “American Indian.” They are now mostly-White descendents of people who are not properly referred to with any one arbitrary and catch-all term, but paleo-east-Asians who came over the Bering land bridge and wiped out all the irreplaceable American megafauna. For purely propaganda purposes, they have latched onto the aforementioned terms, foisted upon them by White imperialist racists.

    Diaspora Jewish response: “rrrraaaaaaciiiiiist!”

    Truth: if peace were declared today and Palestine layed down all their arms, tomorrow they would enjoy their new peace. If Israel were to disarm today, tomorrow they would be massacred.

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Hear hear!”

    If Black America would stop shooting each other today, and start acting civilized, tomorrow things would turn around for them completely. If White America stopped locking their doors at night this very day, tomorrow they would be massacred.

    Diaspora Jewish response: “rrrraaaaaaciiiiiist!”

    They [Israel] are militarily unassailable.

    The American military could crush Israel like a bug. They aren’t the only one. Better hope Jews are full of shit with all their talk of eternal, omnipresent anti-semitism…

    Even If Israel vanished tomorrow and the world found a cheap and plentiful alternative to oil, the Arab-Muslim world would still be dysfunctional, unfree and openly hostile to all the non-Islamic areas of the world. Islam was violent, predatory and expansionist from its very first beginnings. Muslims have the greatest difficulties living in harmony and peace with other peoples and as soon as their numbers reach a critical mass they cause chaos and even civil war in other

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Indeed, indeed!”

    Evin if all the Europeans vanished tomorrow, the Black world would still be dysfunctional, unfree, and openly hostile to each other and the world. Blacks have been violent, low-HDI people throughout history. Blacks have the greatest difficulties living in harmony and peace with other peoples, and as soon as their numbers reach a critical mass, they cause chaos and and ruin wherever they are found.

    Diaspora Jewish response: “rrrraaaaaaciiiiiist!”

  131. Art says:
    @biz

    For purely propaganda purposes some people devised the Palestinian identity in the 1970s, precisely to confuse Westerners into thinking that there is not an Arab-Jewish conflict but rather a Palestinian-Jewish one.

    (Oh my — Hasbara Central has the basement Zombies working tonight.)

    How are you Biz — please please give us a new lie – this is BORING!

    Peace — Art

    p.s. The Palestinians have had many rulers – only the Jews have stolen their personal property.

  132. @Anonymous

    Easy to answer this one, dangerous to all of the countries on earth but especially to themselves and their “allies”.

  133. Hibernian says:
    @DB Cooper

    The proper analogy would be to people of Irish descent returning to a Republic of Ireland that wants to, but doesn’t yet, control the entire island. We can, although I don’t want to.

  134. @biz

    Your argument is straight propaganda. Palestinian is just the name given to the natives of the area who were not Jewish or Druze or members of the tiny minorities like Greek and Armenian orthodox. Saying there is no such thing as a Palestinian is like saying there is no such thing as a Native American since Native-American is a term created by Whites.

    The Arabs or Palestinians had no hand in the Holocaust; just because the Mufti was on good terms with the Nazis does not mean Palestinians actually assisted in the Holocaust. Some Zionists had a relationship with the Nazis ; some examples mentioned in below article.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/03/04/denying-nazi-zionist-collusion/

  135. Hibernian says:
    @Hacienda

    A Korean who marries a Filipino is a race traitor? Which of those two ethnicities do you belong to?

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  136. Hibernian says:
    @Anonymous

    I’ve brought this up before at unz.com but I’ll repeat it: It’s no secret that Einstein, like Newton, “stood on the shoulders of giants” such as Fitzgerald and Lorentz, about whom I learned as a high school student in the early 1970s.

  137. Avery says:
    @greysquirrell

    This is what you wrote above: {….invaders did not wipe out the natives and replace them, ….}

    Then: {Do you think people in Turkey are from what is now Mongolia, just because they speak a Turkic language.}

    Implying that Turk invader did not wipe out the natives.
    You did imply that, did you not?

    So……what the Armenian Genocide has to do with it is this: contrary to what you wrote about invaders not wiping out the natives, a patently false claim and a bold faced Denialist lie, Turk invaders in fact did wipe out the indigenous peoples of Asia Minor – Armenians, Assyrians, and Pontic Greeks. About 4 million or so Christian Armenians, Christian Assyrians, and Christian Greeks wiped out by invading Muslim Turks between 1895 and 1923 alone. No reliable records how many the nomad Turk invaders wiped out before 1895.

    After you have figured out that ‘genocide’ in fact means ‘wipe out’, we can discuss DNA, eyefold, and all that.

    Let me know when you are ready.

    • Replies: @Marcus
  138. Hibernian says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Even in the 19th century, politics, the police force, and the priesthood were not the only avenues of social mobility for Irish-Americans. Google “Irish Big Four,” and/or “Silver Kings,” and/or “Auction Lunch Rooms.” Two Irish born and two American born Irish-American men teamed up to make vast fortunes in Nevada silver mining. The surnames of three of them were Fair, McKay, and O’ Brien; I forget the fourth.

  139. Hacienda says:
    @Hibernian

    Infiltration and subversion in the sense of Sun Tzu. I don’t necessarily mean it in a derogatory way.

  140. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Split-Nationality Disorder

  141. DB Cooper says:
    @biz

    There is no such thing as Muslim tribes. The Palestinians are the indigenous people there. And about 10% of them are Christians.

    • Replies: @biz
  142. paratrop says:
    @Clyde

    If you want to read a less biased source than the “Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs” try this along with the usual hasbarist comments being refuted.

    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/09/israeli-hasbara-effort-justice-for-jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries-gets-pushback-from-baghdadi-jews/

    Mizrahi Yisrael Yeshayahu: “We are not refugees. [Some of us] came to this country before the state was born. We had messianic aspirations.”

    And read about the Lavon Affair in Egypt.

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/lavon.html

    • Replies: @Clyde
  143. Wally says:
    @Karl

    There is no comparison to what a book called The Bible says and what American Indians claim.

  144. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    was it mentioning of the documented role of Jewish revolutionaries in a victory of Bolshevism in Russia, which struck the nerve and provoked your rudeness?
    You prefer to evoke the history of the Middle East in pre-Nuremberg times. Since then the west became populated by Holocaust museums and Germany was forced to pay huge compensations to Jewish survivors. The international law had changed since Nuremberg process; and if you believe that the lost Jewish property in Europe should be compensated, then Palestinians have the right to demand compensation for their lost property in Israel.
    You want the state of Israel look glorious, righteous, and powerful? – That’s fine. However, the problem with Israel-firsters is their pretense on superior morality of Israel – and this is something that the civilized world does not recognize (anymore), and for good measure. For instance, any criticism of Israel’ policies became equated, magically, with anti-Semitism (which became criminalized): https://theintercept.com/2016/02/16/greatest-threat-to-free-speech-in-the-west-criminalizing-activism-against-israeli-occupation/
    Then there is an amazing story of a book – a documentary! – that has been sequestered by all main publishing houses in the US/EU: http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/most-banned-book-in-the-world-200-years-together-aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/
    Going back to Yinon plan, the ziocon-produced “Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm” was surprisingly reminiscent of the Yinon Plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinon_Plan

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article186019.html

    • Replies: @Clyde
  145. Clyde says:
    @paratrop

    Do you deny that 50% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi? Your MondoWeiss link admits this.

    • Replies: @mcohen
  146. Seraphim says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    @If Assad goes, so goes Syria

    Stay calm, neither he will go, nor Syria. It would be rather Israel as a “Jewish state’.

    • Replies: @paratrop
  147. @Anonymous

    Oops, sorry. The previous comment was meant for the Wiz. Unz comment software is so much smarter than I will ever be.

  148. Dan Hayes says:
    @Anonymous

    Anonymous, Wizard of Oz, and Hibernian:

    The relativity discussed by Whittaker was Special Relativity where Einstein’s efforts were only contributory. This was not the case for the later General Relativity where Einstein’s efforts were both singular and original.

  149. K.J. says:
    @Clyde

    “If you stepped back for a moment you might see how silly you sound. So Jews forced Germany and Sweden to take in all those Muslim migrants in the last two years.? Angela Merkel is Jewish?
    What is really going on is that Israel does a good job of fending off the Muslim hordes while the leftist Europeans invite them in via mass immigration invasions.”

    Yes, Angela Merkel is Jewish as her mother is a Jewess and Bibi said she was one of them.
    Yes, Israeli helpers facilitated the migration of the Arabs last year in a number of ways. (Jewish) Merkel invited them in (no doubt in accordance with a larger plan) and Barbara Lerner Spectre, among others, admitted that Jews play a major role in making Europe’s white population brown, see http://www.whyileftsweden.com/?p=198
    Yes, leftist Europeans are responsible for the mass inundation and they deride anyone who resists their opinions as Nazi, populist, rightist, nationalist, etc. Merkel, the leader of the formerly conservative CDU, was (is still?) a communist functionary who does the bidding of George Soros (so do the Greens in Germany, by the way).
    Do facts sound silly? Yes, unfortunately, in Merkel Germany they do, her favourite word nowadays is “post-factual” (in the 10 yrs previously it was “alternativlos” (sound pretty much like A.H./Stalin, no?).

    • Replies: @K.J.
    , @Clyde
  150. K.J. says:
    @K.J.

    P.S.
    In the 70′s Ruth Montgomery, channeling the famous American medium Ford, wrote that all the bloodshed in the ME was pointless as eventually most of Israel will end up under water due to rising sea levels. Two years ago, when in Israel, I read that over a million Israelis had a applied for a Spanish passport /dual citizenship and that other EU countries were offering the offspring of once expelled Jews the same deal. If the ME gets too hot (or wet), they’ve got a new haven with a high standard of living and accustomed-to social handouts waiting for them.

    • Replies: @Alden
  151. RobinG says:
    @Robert Magill

    You may have gotten the wrong end of the stick, Bob. The Israel Zionist elite have purposely instilled that stare.

    It is exactly the future that Israeli social planners are preparing for, by systematically indoctrinating their youth to feel threatened and victimized, superior and entitled. As the old Shoah survivors die out, they need the next generations imbued with both self-righteousness and paranoia.

    This film, made by an Israeli Jew BTW, is worth 10,000 words -

    Behind the Scenes of the ADL
    “Defamation”

    • Replies: @Robert Magill
    , @chris
  152. Eagle Eye says:

    So here we have the president of Malaysia – a large South-East Asian nation with more than 30 million people and with significant oil reserves – whining about the backwardness of Muslim countries.

    Could it be that some, er, factor other than Evil Zionist Domination accounts for the backwardness of Muslim countries?

    There is a feeling of hopelessness among the Muslim countries and their people. They feel that they can do nothing right. They believe that things can only get worse. The Muslims will forever be oppressed and dominated by the Europeans and the Jews. They will forever be poor, backward and weak.

    Perhaps Muslims who are familiar with Islamic culture are right in feeling that their nations will “forever be poor, backward and weak.”

  153. Talha says:

    I am going to give all this land to you and your offspring as a permanent possession

    That must obviously mean – doh! Ambiguous!

    And possible later clarification?
    “And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation.”
    Genesis 17:20

    Hmmmm… :)

    Peace.

  154. Max Payne says:

    Yahweh retaliated within 24 hours by slamming California with the Northridge Earthquake. When Clinton failed to show enough love to Netanyahu at the White House in 1998, the Monica Lewinsky scandal spattered onto newsprint that same day. When Bush fils set August 23rd, 2005 as the deadline for removing Jewish settlers from Gaza, Hurricane Katrina took aim for New Orleans. The fact that it only caused minimal damage to the Bahamas and Cuba shows how excellent of a marksman God is.

    But you forgot to mention how the first Israeli in space had his shuttle break up over Palestine, Texas.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine,_Texas

    It’s as if Yahweh sees the debacle in Palestine and doesn’t want that happening in space.

  155. Eagle Eye says:

    Linh Dinh:

    Your sensitive “Postcards from the End of America” and similar literary reporting were always interesting and touching.

    This kind of literary reporting is your strength. Stick to it.

    I note you spent some 2 years in Vietnam to learn more about the language, the people and the culture of the land of your birth. You also spent significant time in Italy to learn about that country’s language, culture and people.

    You do not seem to have lived in Israel, and do not appear to understand Hebrew. Nor do you mention living in any Muslim country although you derive income from writing for publications in the Muslim world.

    Semi-informed diatribes against Israel, based on talking points put to you by a Jordanian citizen, are unworthy of you.

    Readers unfamiliar with the Muslim world should know that your Jordanian (“Palestinian”) correspondent would be ostracized and quite possibly assassinated for expressing any doubt about Muslim supremacy. Many people publish anti-Israeli opinions in Tel Aviv, but one cannot publish anti-Muslim facts or opinions in Amman (or anywhere else in the Muslim world).

    Knowledge question: which is the penultimate Surah in the Qur’an in terms of generally agreed time of “revelation”? What does it say? WHY IS THE SEQUENCE IMPORTANT?

    • Replies: @mcohen
  156. sarz says:
    @Skeptikal

    When Madeleine Albright discovered she was Jewish, some years into her appointment as secretary of state, a friend who lives in Washington mentioned that he had known her uncle for several decades and the uncle had known all along that he was Jewish.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  157. MEexpert says:

    Pat Robertson cites:

    I am going to give all this land to you and your offspring as a permanent possession (Genesis 13:15)

    O our God, did you not drive out those who lived in this land when your people arrived? And did you not give this land forever to the descendants of your friend Abraham? (II Chronicles 20:7)

    Abraham’s offsprings were Ishmael and Isaac. The land belongs to both the Arabs and the Jews. Ishmael and Isaac are the descendents of Abraham.

  158. @Wizard of Oz

    To say the cold war was of no value to the nation is a very curious way of expressing something and your “something” is unclear.

    I don’t know what that means, what you typed there. I believe that the fundamental choice was between war and ‘convergence’, as suggested by Sakharov, as well as some intellectuals in the West.

    I’ll note that the neutral European states that essentially embraced the path of ‘convergence’ — Finland, Scandinavia, Austria — have been most successful in their socioeconomic development.

    The combination of countries you posit is entirely implausible

    You have the right to an opinion, of course. Obviously it’s unlikely today (which is exactly my point), but then there was a period in the early 1960s, when the advances of Arab Socialism (Nasserism) were pointing to the direction of a strong Arab-Soviet alliance.

    the resources of the Middle East are only peripherally relevant to US prosperity

    That’s irrelevant to imperial strategies; US prosperity is not the issue. Like I said, it’s a resource-rich region, and therefore, if you want to be the global empire, it has to be controlled, or at least weakened and divided.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  159. paratrop says:
    @Seraphim

    Of course I admit that 50% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahim. I don’t live in a fantasy world. The question to be asked is why they are there. Some were expelled (as a response to Zionist expulsions of Palestinians), but as Yeshayahu says, many went there without coercion – with Messianic aspirations as he says – some went there because of Israeli inducements, and some went there because of Israeli false flag operations. On the other hand, pretty well all Palestinians who left were driven out either by violence or by threats of violence.

  160. Gabriel M says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    If the Apartheid authorities had slaughtered 1200-1500 Africans at a time, as Israel has done in Gaza and Lebanon

    What “if”?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Border_War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

    Looking at what a real war looks like can induce a serious case of perspective.

  161. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Linh Dinh

    A couple decades ago, I found a guide book to New York from around 1900, and it said there were many Chinese men married to Irish women, since both groups were socially at the bottom. Moving so many times, I no longer have this curious book to cite from, unfortunately.

    Today you’ll find the same pairings in places like Cambridge, MA, among the cognitive elite. Irish-American women with names Colleen Chung and Megan Wong, who met their Chinese husbands while they were both MIT post-docs.

  162. Lot says:
    @Anonymous

    I agree the Arabs have a right to try to reconquer Israel. They have failed repeatedly. They should fight honorable declared wars, then accept a reasonable peace when defeated.

  163. Clyde says:
    @annamaria

    What is interesting about you is that you have a one track mind when it comes to imperialism and conquest. You only see what Israelis have done and can quote chapter and verse from the books you have poured over that preach this.
    Meanwhile. You are completely oblivious to Islam’s 1400 year track record of blood, forcible conversion, slaughter and imperialism. They are the world’s most successful imperialists. What other imperialists are still around after 1400 years? Only Muhammad’s cult. Islamic imperialism and bloodletting started with Muhammad’s many Jihad wars that Muhammad’s immediate successors continued.
    In more recent history, take a look at the imperialist Ottoman Empire and its vast slaughter of Armenians, Greeks and other Christians.

    Islam’s current most important imperialist project is taking over Europe via immigration, bleeding European welfare systems dry so that they can punch out as many Muslim babies as possible. Its the slow-motion Jihad of conquest via demographic warfare.

    My point being that any Israeli imperialism is a drop in the bucket compared to 1400 years of Muslim imperialism. So the Israelis now have the Golan Heights due to winning this in a war? Nothing compared to the lands Islam has taken during 1400 years of conquest and imperialism. Very important because the creation and existence of Israel is just another round of The Jews versus The Muslims.
    The time around the Jews have their own land and nation that they can defend militarily instead of living as oppressed and submitting dhimmis in Muslim lands.

  164. iffen says:

    I hope you are pleased with yourself, LD.

    All this time and effort put into finding someone with a great grandmother with a funny sounding name.

  165. mcohen says:
    @Clyde

    did you quote……… mondoweiss.you being serious……….the site is a cia front gathering info on left wing nutjobs.would not quote………..Anything or believe anything written there………

    • Replies: @Clyde
  166. You are sort of entertaining when you do the pseudo-Bukowski thing… the stuff about how drunks and failures are the real people.

    Stick with that.

  167. mcohen says:
    @Eagle Eye

    interesting question regarding revelation.i am curious as to what your answer is

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  168. @RobinG

    Possibly. But one reaction is, the last time I saw the numbers, 640,000 exit visas issued for Israelis wishing to leave permanently. Many, strangely enough, for Germany!

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  169. mcohen says:

    true story

    one night i was driving home between cities,out in the countryside.it was a dark night.i pulled over to take a piss and while i was standing there i saw all these white coloured things strewn in the grass around me.i zipped up and picked one up.it was paper but i could not see what was written on it.got back into the car and had a better look.it was a page from the bible,book of job,around verse 22.someone had thrown it out of a car window while driving down the highway.i mean what are the odds.200 km long highway, 11 pm at night, pitch black,not many cars on the road,pull over walk around to passenger side and there it is.
    anyway thats when i started to believe.
    in the last few years i have had more such happenings,some about israel,around when obama visited,the sandstorms,some about 7 falling stars,the fire in brooklyn.
    it is all starting to move quicker now towards a point.i can feel it,can any of you.

  170. Clyde says:
    @mcohen

    Please…mondoweiss is a skunk but paratrop linked to it. I scanned what it said/which was not much/ then threw back to paratrop a quote from it. As simple as this.
    Quick question for you in this new year of 2017. What is the word’s most successful and enduring imperialism?

    • Replies: @mcohen
    , @paratrop
  171. Clyde says:
    @K.J.

    Yes, Angela Merkel is Jewish as her mother is a Jewess and Bibi said she was one of them.
    Compete psychedelic delusion. If you have something to back this up please post it.

    Yes, Israeli helpers facilitated the migration of the Arabs last year in a number of ways. (Jewish) Merkel invited them in (no doubt in accordance with a larger plan) and Barbara Lerner Spectre….
    Gottcha! Barbara Lerner Spectre is calling the shots in the current Mulism migration invasion of Europe. I am aware of her and detest Lerner, but she has little influence, unless she has some souped up mind ray machine that is zapping Swedish leaders.

    • Replies: @Kyle McKenna
  172. Skeptikal says:
    @sarz

    It is too bad these people are not more proud of their Jewish heritage.
    Potentially, it makes them more interesting and interested—that is, if they follow up with curiosity, it gives them a route into greater understanding of themselves and their family (in the sense of both family history and family dynamic), the world around them, and history generally. This should make them better public servants and statesmen and -women.

    I don’t know these people personally, so I am just speculating about their mental mindsets. But to me the “I never knew!” thing is stupid and irritating and boring. However, perhaps they are correct in assuming that the American public is not able to see nuances, so better to “Keep it simple, stupid!”

  173. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Thanks for the courtesy of a reasoned response.

    As to your first par. I suppose I could also be accused of using a curious way of expressing myself…. but what I was principally referring to was the idea of a war being valuable or not. As one would not see anything comparably odd or unidiomatic in e.g. “confonting the Soviet Union at every point during the Cold Wat was on the whole damaging to the US economy and to its long term geo-political interests” it raised the question why you didn’t say something like that rather than what you did say which made the cold war sound like an exogenous phenomenon visited on the US which turned out to be a gift that the US shouldn’t have accepted.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  174. Skeptikal says:
    @biz

    “There is no such thing as a “Palestinian.” ”

    How exceedingly odd!
    A woman, German Jew, resident in Palestine from 1933, who traveled in 1936 from Palestine to Britain to study, was described as “Palestinian” on her official documents.

    So someone in both Palestine and Britain thought that there was such a thing as Palestine.
    In fact, someone thought that there was such a thing as Palestine qua political entity, not race or ethnicity.
    All the people living in Palestine, also Jews, were Palestinians.
    That includes local Jews and the recent migrants from Europe.
    But the European Jews wanted the whole place for themselves and launched a war of ethnic cleansing to get it. Where previously they had just bought up the place piece by piece, using to a great extent Rothschild funds. But that was taking too long, and elicited the great ire of the original locals, who couldn’t compete moneywise with the rich newcomers.

    REally, the guests from hell!!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  175. Marcus says:

    Kerry should explain to the Israelis and Arabs his “ultimate wisdom of a borderless world”: problem solved.

  176. Lepanto says:

    While there are plenty of grounds to criticize Israel, I find many ultimately falter when they revert to seeing Israel’s founding and the displacement of the Palestinians in almost metaphysical terms as uniquely unjust.

    The reference to Malaysia’s Mahathir is telling here given his own argument that the Malay Muslims who migrated to the region hundreds of years ago have more claim to the land than the indigenous groups living there, e.g.:http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/05/mahathir-malay-claims-to-country-stronger-than-oran-asli/

    Like it or not, Jews have a long-standing connection to Palestine, much more so than Malay Muslims to Malaysia.

    To paraphrase Charlton Heston in Planet of the Apes, some colonialists are more colonialist than others.

  177. @Wizard of Oz

    Well, the ‘cold war’ was really an epoch, a strategic long-term choice, with a whole bunch of little (and not so little) wars resulting from it. I saw Oliver Stone linking it to the 1948 presidential election, to Henry Wallace being defeated by the establishment, getting (come to think of it) the treatment Trump received in the 2016 campaign… But of course alternative history doesn’t exist, and I’m really a determinist myself…

    Anyway, the point I was making (and I thought it was clear) is that the US actions need to be analyzed as actions of a global empire. Israel is not important to the US (the nation) at all, but it is very important to the global empire ruled from Washington, DC. And that’s the most productive way to analyze American foreign policy…

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Art
  178. L.K says:
    @greysquirrell

    greysquirrell,

    Avery knows all that, he is just a sad Armenian LIAR who hates Turks and consistently lies about them.
    Avery thinks that hysterically screaming 2 + 2 =5 on a daily basis, will eventually convince people, at least ignorant people, that the Turks from Turkey are ‘nomadic uigher nomadic savages’ from China or wherever.

    Pathetic really.

    You are also correct about the Palestinians. The Arab invaders never expelled them( nor did the Romans expell the Jews, another zio myth), only mixed with the indigenous people to an extent.

    The Palestinians are an ancient Levantine people whose core origins go back to pre-historic times.

    • Replies: @Avery
  179. Avery says:
    @L.K

    You still around you noe-Nazi mongrel POS?

    • Replies: @L.K
  180. raphee says:
    @Sherman

    Ah yes, Israeli peace overtures. Last time was when the Israelis bombed Gaza.

    Pesky Palestinians just don’t get it, do they?

  181. biz says:
    @DB Cooper

    And about 10% of them are Christians.

    I see you didn’t follow my above links in response to the other comment but you can easily look up, in e.g. the CIA World Factbook or any other source, that Christians are less than 2% of the population of the West Bank and less than 1% of the population of Gaza. Sorry.

    At least you didn’t claim that Christians are half like the other commenter. Progress lol.

    As for them being indigenous, I know you want it to be that way, but it simply isn’t the case. “Palestinians” are just Arabs descended from relatively recent Muslim invaders.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Druid
  182. Corvinus says:
    @Clyde

    “You are completely oblivious to Islam’s 1400 year track record of blood, forcible conversion, slaughter and imperialism. They are the world’s most successful imperialists.”

    No, that would be the Europeans who carved out individually niches around the globe.

    “What other imperialists are still around after 1400 years?”

    The United States and China.

    “In more recent history, take a look at the imperialist Ottoman Empire and its vast slaughter of Armenians, Greeks and other Christians.”

    “Islam’s current most important imperialist project is taking over Europe via immigration, bleeding European welfare systems dry so that they can punch out as many Muslim babies as possible. Its the slow-motion Jihad of conquest via demographic warfare.”

    I would dare say that they are following in the footsteps of their Christian counterparts. After all, white people set the standard.

    • Replies: @Feargus
    , @Talha
  183. Skeptikal says:
    @Svigor

    “They’ll expand their settlement-building project into western Jordan (east bank), southern Lebanon, southwestern Syria, and Egypt (Sinai). It will all be done as a “private” enterprise by “individual” Jews,” ”

    That is exactly how they got started in Palestine. Private land purchases that gradually started to “link up.”
    And it is more or less how the Americans did it: Plant yourself in a territory and then demand protection from the U.S. Army.
    If I were a country abutting any “border” of Israel or anywhere in the Eretz Israel neighborhood, I would pass some very clear laws concerning land purchases by foreigners and restricting locations and densities. E.g., distance from the “border,” etc. Or even specify Israelis or even Jews. Because the latter have a pattern and it is not discriminatory to point out this pattern and the dangers of obliviously letting private land purchases go forward.

    In fact, even passing such laws or publishing an intent to do so might flush out some land-grabbing Zionists by causing a rush on land purchases in Eretz Israel territory.

  184. @SolontoCroesus

    STC,

    I’ll take that as concurrence with my comments about Moslem states. ;-P

    PLT,

    The Grate Deign

  185. Skeptikal says:
    @Robert Magill

    They probably stand a pretty good chance of getting German citizenship (if their fathers or grandfathers were German-born; forget it if the mother was German), which would be a huge advantage for them, as they could then live and work anywhere in the EU—plus Israel, of course.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  186. Art says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    However, people in upper strata tend to have strong sociopathic tendencies (I believe), and to be motivated by what they see as their personal interests, rather any perceived group interest

    .

    Not to be labor the point – but whatever clannishness or tribalness is – nature or nurture – the Jews have it in spades.

    Peace — Art

  187. Feargus says:

    As long as the average sleepy Westerner has a visceral horror at the Muslim mobs in the West, he’ll emotionally sympathize with the Israeli state and the Israeli people, who wear sundresses and flip flops just like his own folks. The introduction of Muslim mobs into the West may or may not be a Zionist plot designed to elicit just that sympathy for Israel. Whatever the case, it just goes to show that simultaneously campaigning against anti-Muslim sentiment and against Zionism is an unnatural and futile position going against deeply felt instincts in the Western man’s protoplasm. A dreamer and a Lysenkoist can tackle the two targets of Zionism and anti-Muslim sentiments at the same time but will be fighting a losing action.

    Of course, the particular problem outlined above facing our intrepid thought leaders becomes a moot point if #whitegenocide can actually come to pass and the population of the West can be replaced with sincerely pro-Muslim and anti-Zionist folks, i.e. the actual Muslims themselves.

  188. Gabriel M says:
    @Svigor

    I tend to agree. If able to keep their birthrate high, I think Israeli Jewry will eventually start colonizing the surrounding territory (Eretz Israel),

    Of all the gaylordy things about SJW/Stormfag ranting about Israel, the attempts to show off their insider knowledge they got from Stormfag.com by by using Hebrew terms has to be the gaylordiest. 1) It’s “Eretz Yisrael”. 2) The term simply means “The Land of Israel” and since this term already has a known English equivalent of long duration it is simply weird and uncouth to use the Hebrew equivalent, still less inaccurately . It’s like someone pretending to be an authority about Italy and banging on about Furenzi and Venebia. Sad.

    They’ll expand their settlement-building project into western Jordan (east bank), southern Lebanon, southwestern Syria, and Egypt (Sinai). It will all be done as a “private” enterprise by “individual” Jews, though they will use their military to thwart any attempted move against the settlements by militaries in the countries targeted. They will use Arab cutouts to buy, and regime-change against any attempt to nationalize the land. PMCs, private militias, etc., will handle day-to-day security. It will be done one country at a time, so as to avoid biting off too much to chew

    Yeah, OK. Back in reality, here’s some of our “Apartheid boot” in action.

    The Arabs have actually figured out a pretty good strategy for not losing land to Israelis: don’t launch wars of extermination against Israel. They’ve been employing this strategy since 1973 and it’s served them pretty well. Shame it took them two and half decades to figure it out, but they’re not the brightest tools in the box.

    In that case, they’ll develop the Negev first, but they’ll have a huge problem on their hands, because the Arabs will do the same with their deserts, and churn out a couple billion kids.

    By that inestimable logic, because Israel is already a world leader in medicine, biotech and computing, so is the Arab world. Any minute now I guess. You should invest, there’s doubtless money to be made.

  189. @Clyde

    The Israelis would never take your style of harebrained advice. This is why they are still around in an ocean of Muslims and doing great economically.

    Ummm, anyone with a lick of sense understands that there’s a bit more to it than that.

    They are an exporting super power and hi-tech giant including cutting edge medical high tech.

    All Mickey Mouse. Yawn. You sound like a cargo cultist.

    What do the Muslims s give/sell to the world?

    Next we’ll hear from you that you’re part of a super race and all the rest will just have to be exterminated. BTW, you asked the question bass ackwards, but I don’t expect you to understand. Just don’t expect me to ‘splain it to ya, either.

    One day your life will be saved by an Israeli medical advance. Or some ailment put on hold or cured.

    So what? The world doesn’t revolve around me, but don’t ask me to explain. Adolescent narcissists need not apply.

  190. Feargus says:
    @Corvinus

    It’s a dog eat dog world out there between the world’s great culture-collectivity-organisms. In this jungle, to lack collective guilt about imperialism is a trait of strength generally. Islam currently has the upper hand over Europe in this regard but it hasn’t always been this way, and maybe not in the future either. The question therefore becomes, will European self-guilt be a permanent character trait or is it just a temporary fancy? The first option is what is popularly called “cuckoldry” and suicide while the second option leads to a renewal of the furor teutonicus. Neither option smacks of moderation but then again Western man is notable for the relentless passion of his endeavors, in whatever he decides to undertake.

    • Replies: @Talha
  191. @Linh Dinh

    Communism sought to destroy the fabric of Vietnamse society,

    Yes. And it comes as no surprise to me since Marxists were supported by big money which in turn was made by colonialists who had already been busy tearing societies to shreds for centuries. Orwell’s last sentence in Animal Farm was spot on.

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    ― George Orwell, Animal Farm

    Here’s Mencken with a similar comment.

    The Pinks have a magnificent capacity for mistaking Freudian wishes for objective facts, but they are still in sufficient contact with reality to know, if only subconsciously, that the difference between Communism and Fascism is fundamentally very slight, and that the one always tends to turn into the other.

    - H.L. Mencken, The American Future The American Mercury, February 1937, pp. 129-136

    https://www.unz.org/Pub/AmMercury-1937feb-00129

    but thanks to its slackening, Vietnamese practices (good or bad) and traditions are going through a revival.

    I am very happy to hear that.

  192. Talha says:
    @biz

    Hey biz,

    “Palestinians” are just Arabs descended from relatively recent Muslim invaders.

    Yeah – I guess 1400+ years is relatively recent when you take the age of the Earth into account.

    As for them being indigenous, I know you want it to be that way, but it simply isn’t the case.

    Yes, yes, please explain to us how Ethiopian Jews are indigenous.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @biz
  193. @Linh Dinh

    LD…

    Those “entries” you wrote are stunning. What a difference between those guys and the punk American “heroes” of today.

    Cảm ơn anh

  194. Talha says:
    @Corvinus

    Hey Corvinus,

    I don’t know if you’ve ever come across this map; it is a geographical mapping of all battles in recorded history – an amazing and useful endeavor. See any patterns, any clusters perhaps?

    http://battles.nodegoat.net/viewer.p/23/385

    Which is why I don’t take these jokers too seriously, neither should you. If Mawlana Clyde isn’t being paid for his work here, he should be.

    Peace.

    P.S. Actually on second thought, most of his stuff is completely unoriginal copy-paste from his previous posts – so no soup for him!

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Clyde
  195. @Durruti

    On “Uncle Ho,” Google & pick & choose.

    I asked because I was hoping to hear LD’s personal suggestions and insights. I guess he told me, with the comment that the Commies sought to destroy society (which they did), what he thinks of “Uncle” Ho. I was brought up in a very comprehensive Roman Catholic tradition of long standing and loathing of Comminizm was imbibed along with me mother’s milk and is still part of my bones.

    However, I learned only one part of the story, and have since learned that there are many parts to it and I retain a probably pathologic curiosity about them.

    Anyway, Googling, both random and focused, is a favorite sport of mine and I did just that for the guys you mentioned, and I thank you.

    I really need to read up on this dude…Pedro Albizu Campos. I find it amazing and tragic that a guy like that is so obscure.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  196. @iffen

    Please, more fabulous postcards, no more polemics.

    Cuz the truth hurts.

  197. mcohen says:
    @Clyde

    Imperial English leather followed by old spice.

  198. @disturbed_robot

    Respect All! And Bow to None!”

    I myself only respect the respectable, and any bowing I may be doing is laced with mucho loathing. Any bowing is generally fleeting while the loathing is permanent.

    Character defect, I guess.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  199. Santos says:
    @Anon

    No it is not satire, you must be a dishonest person, most probably a Khazar.

    • Replies: @Anon
  200. Skeptikal says:
    @Clyde

    I wonder whether a basic historical/anthropological point is being overlooked in the whole Muslims vs. West discussion.

    I have read that what drove the so-called “hordes” from east to west was “rumors” (not the appropriate word but I can’t think of a better) of a land to the west that was green and there was plentiful rainfall. Central Asian nomadic tribes either tried to get into China (hence the Great Wall), and some of them succeeded (the Yuan Empire), or traveled west in a multi-generational movement in search of nicer lands, more grass, etc. (Ghengis Khan and his descendants), who also succeeded (cf. the Golden Horde). The existence of more rainfall and grass in the western peninsula hanging off the Eurasian land mass would surely have been a constant beckoning feature whenever there was any population pressure among the nomads.

    Perhaps “Muslim” is one of those terms that actually is kind of useless . . .
    Can the current migrations be viewed as, on some level, a continuation of this constant thrust west of Central Asian peoples to richer and more hospitable lands? In this context the expansion of the Russian Imperium eastward would have been anomalous or, actually, based on more complex survival issues than merely having enough food. And might have prevented the development of larger Central Asian demographic and political challengers to the West.

    Just speculating . . . Back to work . . .

    • Replies: @Clyde
  201. @Gabriel M

    What “if”?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Border_War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

    Looking at what a real war looks like can induce a serious case of perspective.

    An even bigger difference is the casus belli. South Africa went to war over the possibility of hostile states on its border, whereas Israel went to war over actual cross-border attacks mounted by Arabs.

  202. Svigor says:

    If I were a country abutting any “border” of Israel or anywhere in the Eretz Israel neighborhood, I would pass some very clear laws concerning land purchases by foreigners and restricting locations and densities. E.g., distance from the “border,” etc. Or even specify Israelis or even Jews. Because the latter have a pattern and it is not discriminatory to point out this pattern and the dangers of obliviously letting private land purchases go forward.

    This will move the offending country to the head of the Regime Change queue.

    wars of extermination against Israel.

    I suppose this plays well to the Zionists and their Baptist stooges, but nobody else is buying this scheisse.

    By that inestimable logic, because Israel is already a world leader in medicine, biotech and computing, so is the Arab world. Any minute now I guess. You should invest, there’s doubtless money to be made.

    It’s not a reach to suggest that parity in solar power would be reached more quickly than in much broader categories like “medicine,” “biotech,” and “computing.” A solar panel is a product, not a service, much less a field of inquiry, and I’ve never seen anything to indicate that the solution to the problem of cost-effective solar power will be something requiring the infrastructure of, say, nuclear. I think someone will be willing to sell the Arabs solar panels; doesn’t seem that far fetched to me. I certainly wouldn’t base a cocksure reading of the future on it not being so.

    In other words, there’s an awful lot of insolation in MENA.

    Could it be that some, er, factor other than Evil Zionist Domination accounts for the backwardness of Muslim countries?

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Hear hear!”

    Could it be that some, er, factor other than White Privilege, White Racism, etc., accounts for the backwardness of Black populations?

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Rrrrrrrrrrracist! Faaaasciiiist!”

    Perhaps Muslims who are familiar with Islamic culture are right in feeling that their nations will “forever be poor, backward and weak.”

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Amen!”

    Perhaps Blacks who are familiar with Black culture are right in feeling that their populations will “forever be poor, backward and weak.”

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Rrrrrrrrrrracist! Faaaasciiiist!”

    Of course, Black Americans reward their diaspora Jewish champions by supporting sanctions on Israel in near-majority numbers.

    You do not seem to have lived in Israel, and do not appear to understand Hebrew. Nor do you mention living in any Muslim country although you derive income from writing for publications in the Muslim world.

    Good point: I’m going to start telling Zionists to STFU about Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, Oman, Egypt, Jordan, Afghanistan, etc., etc., etc. What with 99% of them never having lived in those places, and all.

    did you quote……… mondoweiss.you being serious……….the site is a cia front gathering info on left wing nutjobs.would not quote………..Anything or believe anything written there………

    Sounds like projection over MEMRI, CAMERA, etc., etc., etc.

    While there are plenty of grounds to criticize Israel, I find many ultimately falter when they revert to seeing Israel’s founding and the displacement of the Palestinians in almost metaphysical terms as uniquely unjust.

    One could make the case: Jews are obviously the world’s biggest whiners about their own kind’s persecution, and their sanctimony on this, and any related subject has to be seen to be believed. “I am a Jew,” they announce by way of preamble, as if synonymous with “enlightened authority on all things humanitarian.” Then they turn around and give the Palestinians the Warsaw Ghetto treatment.

    Absent that, I suppose you have a point; it is not unique, it is of a piece with the centuries-dead practices of imperialism, found throughout history. Of course, anyone who refuses to recognize this is refuting the contemporary Narrative on the issue, though in practice almost none have the balls to come out and admit it.

  203. @Gabriel M

    What “if”?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Border_War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War

    Looking at what a real war looks like can induce a serious case of perspective.

    The Sino-Vietnamese War in 1979 was even more vicious – 100K dead on both sides in just under 4 weeks.

  204. @biz

    There is no such thing as a “Palestinian.”

    Why? Did the usual suspects wipe ‘em all out when I wasn’t looking?

    What are we supposed to call the people of Palestine?

    If there was no Palestine for the Zionists to invade, then why did Ze’ev refer to the land as such? Why did Ze’ev Baby refer to “Palestinians?” Sumpin wrong wit da guy er what???

    We cannot give any compensation for Palestine, neither to the Palestinians nor to other Arabs. Therefore, a voluntary agreement is inconceivable. All colonization, even the most restricted, must continue in defiance of the will of the native population. Therefore, it can continue and develop only under the shield of force which comprises an Iron Wall which the local population can never break through. This is our Arab policy. To formulate it any other way would be hypocrisy.

    - Ze’ev Jabotinsky,The Iron Wall (1923).

    • Replies: @L.K
  205. Talha says:
    @Feargus

    Hey Feargus,

    You make a lot of good points. I think having guilt about British Imperialism or something gone almost a generation ago is just stupid. It was a dog-eat-dog (or empire-eat-empire) world. Sorry, but we all invaded each other and some were just better than others.

    Now that we have an international order based on some legal precepts (I know there are tons of imperfections) we can try to make sure we can bring that historic norm to a minimum – on all sides. Especially given the destructive power of our weapons; we aren’t talking crossbows and pikes anymore folks.

    The best policy forward seems to be “don’t invade, don’t invite” until Europe figures out its identity issues.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    , @Anon
  206. Skeptikal says:
    @Dumbo

    “As for Palestinians, I don’t really think it was a country before, just a territory. I mean they are Arabs and many countries in that region had arbitrary borders created by the colonizers.”

    The Palestinians’ national aspirations are analogous to those of all the territories that were under the heel of the Ottoman Turks prior to WW1: present=day Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Trans-Jordan, etc. Very important to distinguish between Arabs and Turks. The Turks were teh original oppressors in the area. The WW1 allies, esp. Britain, really betrayed all of these national leaders when they literally drew lines on maps to create Iraq, Syria, Trans-Jordan, etc., put the House of Saud in charge of Saudi Arabia instead of the Hashemites (to whom they gave Trans-Jordan). Mainly they threw the Palestinians under the bus at the behest of Britain when Palestine became the de facto locus for a Jewish state following WW1 isntead of creating teh state that they wanted, which I think at that time included current Lebanon and TransJordan but not sure about exactly what was planned to belong to the new state Palestine at that time.
    No time now to provide an exposition on all of this, but an excellent source is Peter Mansfield (a Brit), The Arabs. Here you can read, in a book published in 1976, before the current round of acrimony, of the ongoing and invariable intransigence of the Jews when it came to negotiating with the Palestinians or any other Arabs. They always refused any compromise and threw tantrums until they got exactly what they wanted. With a lot of enabling from the Americans.

    Another excellent source for, literally, the process of line drawing on maps is Janet Wallach, Desert Queen (bio of Gertrude Bell, 1868–1926, who did a lot of the line drawing; she was the only one who had any understanding of the tribal politics, etc.). Both of these are available as cheap secondhand paperbacks. Re Bell, you can skip the early chapters and start with chapter 5, “First Steps in the Desert.” When Bell traveled to Jerusalem to learn Arabic in ca. 1890 it was in PALESTINE.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  207. Svigor says:

    TUR’s resident “centrist” and “arch-moderate” weighs in:

    “You are completely oblivious to Islam’s 1400 year track record of blood, forcible conversion, slaughter and imperialism. They are the world’s most successful imperialists.”

    No, that would be the Europeans who carved out individually niches around the globe.

    “What other imperialists are still around after 1400 years?”

    The United States and China.

    “In more recent history, take a look at the imperialist Ottoman Empire and its vast slaughter of Armenians, Greeks and other Christians.”

    “Islam’s current most important imperialist project is taking over Europe via immigration, bleeding European welfare systems dry so that they can punch out as many Muslim babies as possible. Its the slow-motion Jihad of conquest via demographic warfare.”

    I would dare say that they are following in the footsteps of their Christian counterparts. After all, white people set the standard.

    A notable comment, for the dogs that aren’t barking. He criticizes White Europeans, but not Jews, in a thread about the Israel Palestine issue. In fact, he does not mention Israel or Jews anywhere. Is it possible that he doesn’t think Jews are White? That is one implication of his eagerness to accuse Whites, but never Jews.

    He defends Muslims and attacks Whites, while ignoring Israel, Jews, and Palestinians altogether, in a thread about Israel and Palestine. That’s pretty telling.

    A pro-Muslim Zionist “arch-moderate,” our Corvinus:

    Anti-White-European
    Zionist
    Pro-Muslim

    Allow me to repeat: in a thread about Israel and Palestine, he defends Muslims by pointing out European behavior, criticizes White Christian behavior of centuries ago, and doesn’t breathe a word about what Jews are up to in Israel right now.

  208. Skeptikal says:
    @Skeptikal

    PS
    One of the Allies’ war aims in WW1 (esp. Britain/Churchill but not only) was to carve up the lands of the Ottoman Empire for themselves. It is partly within this scenario that the Armenian genocide occurred (both Greece and Russian Armenia wanted to grab chunks of present-day Turkey). It is, actually, a miracle that the Turks (Young Turks) managed to thwart Churchill et al. and wrest a country of their out of the grasping claws of the European imperialist powers. At enormous sacrifice among the Turkish civilian population in support the nationalist struggle. Say what you want about present-day Turkey, Erdogan, etc., but credit where credit is due.

  209. biz says:
    @Talha

    The first military conquest by the Caliphate was indeed 1400 years ago, but the process of colonization and displacement of the natives by Muslim Arabs from the Peninsula was gradual and ongoing, and mostly concentrated in the last 600 years. Estimates are that the Fertile Crescent area had Muslim minority, with Arab Muslims outnumbered by combined Assyrians, Greek Orthodox, Maronites, Jews, and others, until as late as 1700. Even that late settlement is dwarfed, however, by the Arab settlement that came in the beginning of the 20th century from Egypt, Jordan, and elsewhere, attracted by the economic opportunities opened up by British and Jewish enterprises.

    Anyway you slice it, the Muslim Arabs who have in very recent decades been called “Palestinians” are too recent arrivals to be honestly considered ‘indigenous’ if that word is to have any meaning.

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    , @Talha
  210. Sam Shama says:
    @jacques sheete

    I have to admit your posts unfailingly echo a mix of honesty and humour. That part about bowing and loathing brought back memories of a pupil in chronic dread of the Head Master’s wrath.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  211. @Skeptikal

    I think Jews have proven that they need a homeland of their own, and should not be allowed to wander wherever they please. I also think Germany, the U.S. and just about every other nation where Jews reside in large enough numbers to be a problem would be better off without them. They’ve made their bed with Israel and should be forced to stay or move there. My problem with Israel is that it is a parasite nation. If they’d just fight their own wars (physical, diplomatic, propaganda…), pay their own way and stay out of other nations’ internal affairs, I wouldn’t care what they do in Palestine….I also wouldn’t care if they were driven into the sea, and wouldn’t lift a finger to help them if it happened.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  212. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Santos

    Well, I guess that settles it then. Some person who’s never posted here before jumps into a thread to tell me that some I said to someone else was incorrect.

    Sockpuppet much?

  213. Marcus says:
    @Avery

    No doubt there were plenty of atrocities, but for the most part, the “Turks” are the descendants of indigenous Anatolians who converted due to force, pressure, or to move up in status. If the Turks had annihilated the indigenous population, the region would’ve been about as sparsely populated as Mongolia.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/are-turks-acculturated-armenians/

    @ LK, I fail to see how the modern Palestinians are an “ancient Levantine people,” they are just a mish-mash of Arabs, Arabized Levantines and other elements. The Aramaic or Canaanite speaking natives have disappeared.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Oscar Peterson
  214. @Clyde

    You are responding to some deliberate hasbarat disinformation, designed to derail the discussion. It’s a common tactic, and not always so obvious.

  215. Alden says:
    @K.J.

    About one million Israelis are permanent legal residents of the US. There is a big problem of cannon fodder. The orthodox, the majority of the population with the big families, are exempt from the military.

    So the burden of service falls on the secular a. There is no reform religion in Israel. It’s either ultra orthodox or nothing.

    So the seculars have realized that it is they who do the fighting while the orthodox stay home and live on the child benefit.

    That’s probably the reason why the Israelis and AIPAC have coerced America into fighting Israelis endless wars.

    Another problem with Israel is that nationalism is just not Jewish. They are basically travelers going from country to country for the easiest pickings. When things get bad they just move on.

    What with 1 million of the 5 or 6 million Jewish Israelis living in America and the increased birthrate of military exempt Israelis things might change although it might take a couple hundred years.

    But if America ends its military support of Israel they will find another great power. Living in a Jewish neighborhood I read the Jewish publications The big thing in the last 5 years is “how much Jews and Chinese have in common” There is a lot of support for Chinese woman Jewish man marriage. There are a lot of articles about the Persian Jew traders in China during medieval and earlier times .

    Some would say that having destroyed America the Jews plan to jump to China and colonize China as they colonized Poland and America.

    It’s the seculars who serve in the army who are getting second passports and leaving. The orthodox stay because they can live comfortably off the child benefits and other welfare.

    But it won’t happen in this century.

  216. @Gabriel M

    Indeed, a “real war” is something else entirely. As your example indicates, it has combatants on both sides, substantial casualties on both sides, and so on. Israel’s slaughter campaigns against powerless civilian populations in Gaza and Lebanon most definitely do not qualify. As your own example clearly demonstrates, Israel’s behavior qualifies as a war crime without there being an actual war.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    , @Gabriel M
  217. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    Islam with its 1400 year track record of conquest, killing and forcibly converting infidels. The world’s most during and successful imperials. Submit to (phony baloney) Allah or else. The word Islam means submission.
    “In Arabic, the word “Islam” means submission or surrender” https://goo.gl/NVFkC8

    So the brainwashed 5x daily head bumpers submit to Islam/Allah…… But all infidels must submit to.

    • Replies: @Talha
  218. L.K says:
    @Avery

    Always around to refute the pathetic LIES by Pinocchios such as yourself.

    • Replies: @Avery
  219. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “John Kerry’s speech of December 28th, 2016 is an eye-opening indictment of Israel. Though prolix and padded with platitudes, its meat is a long overdue j’accuse.”

    Given that US enabled and encouraged Zionism since the very beginning, this is too little too late. And so disingenuous.

    Everything Israel is ‘guilty’ of, US is too since it has been the sponsor of everything demanded by Israel and its Lobby in the US. Obama did precious little against any of this, and he turned on Israel ONLY BECAUSE Hillary lost and Netanyahu praised Trump’s victory.

  220. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “The sulkers were Israel, United States, Canada, CzechRepublic, Marshall Islands, Federated States of Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and Panama.”

    That is hilarious.

  221. Eagle Eye says:
    @mcohen

    Surah 9 is regarded as penultimate, hence SUPERSEDES all others (especially the peaceful verses) with its exhortations to murder and demean infidels. The last surah is very short.

    The trick is that in printed Qur’ans surahs are arranged by length, NOT date.

    Questioning the doctrine of the Qur’an is treated as apostasy and punished by assassination.

  222. Eagle Eye says:
    @biz

    “Palestinians” are in significant portion (probably 30-40%) neither Arab nor Muslim in terms of recent descent (say, since 1800).

    Moreover, many of the Arabs in Israel in 1948 had only immigrated to the area in the late 1800s and early 1900s precisely to take advantage of the early burgeoning brought by Jewish and other non-Muslim settlers.

    Note that the poor, put-upon Jordanian citizens (aka “Palestinians”) in Judea and Samaria hugely increased their numbers relative to the population of the rest of Israel since 1967.

  223. L.K says:

    Wow, the comment section to this article has really brought along the entire Hasbara brigade, aka, Zio lying SCUM, to work overtime spewing all types of lies, obfuscation and misdirection.

    The hasbarists have really managed to turn the comment section under this article into a complete sewer.
    Let’s name some of these people, many of whom appear regularly everytime ‘Israel’ and zionism are the subject of articles;
    mcohen , iffen, sam shameless, biz, gabriel, clyde, lot, eagle eye, wizard of lies, er, oz, etc…

    Yikes, what an overwhelming stink of excrement…

  224. Talha says:
    @biz

    Hey biz,

    process of colonization

    Was abrupt and immediate – there was no ‘gradual’. The Byzantines lost that area and never came back.

    displacement of the natives by Muslim Arabs

    Where is your proof they kicked people out? If anything, they let your folk and others (some of the Christian sects that the Byzantines ran out) live more easily than the Byzantines:
    “But leaving this visual of incredibly successful military victories tells only one part of a much broader story: the birth of the Muslim world built on the cooperation and participation of the subjugated peoples. The initial Arab conquests were, in fact, rarely destructive. One of the main reasons for the Arab’s early success was due to the aid they received from disgruntled populations in the Byzantine and Sasanid empires: the Copts in Egypt, the Monophysites in Syria, and the Nestorians in Persia. Moreover, the new rulers were quickly able to consolidate their additional territories precisely because the local populations willingly accepted the Arab regime.”

    http://www2.css.edu/app/depts/his/historyjournal/index.cfm?cat=6&art=46

    “It is interest to note here that, as far as Palestine is concerned, the right of Jews to ‘return’ to live in this small area of land was accepted by all successive Muslim rulers from the Muslim conquest to the end of the nineteenth century, when Zionist settlement there became entangled in European weltpolitik. Gibb and Bowen relate how, when the Jews of Europe ‘learned of the paradisiacal life awaiting them in Turkey’ and many of them set out for Palestine, it was not the Muslims who objected but the [Christian] Franciscans of Jerusalem, ‘who talked the Pope into forbidding the Venetians to carry Jewish passengers to the Holy Land.’”
    Israel’s Place in the Middle East: A Pluralist Perspective

    Estimates are that the Fertile Crescent area had Muslim minority, with Arab Muslims outnumbered by combined Assyrians, Greek Orthodox, Maronites, Jews, and others, until as late as 1700.

    And yet you just talked about displacement of natives from 600 C.E.
    Source for these estimates? A neutral academic source would be appreciated.

    the Muslim Arabs who have in very recent decades been called “Palestinians” are too recent arrivals to be honestly considered ‘indigenous’ if that word is to have any meaning.

    Bro, the Jews that were literally flown in from places like Bukhara, Morocco and Yemen or came from historic communities as far as Mumbai and Calcutta are also “too recent arrivals to be honestly considered ‘indigenous’”. How many of them are there?

    if that word is to have any meaning

    I’m willing to drop it if you are, let’s not have talk about how people from Poland are indigenous to Israel.

    If your basic premise is; well there were always fights over this land and we just won the most recent one – I can respect that. But history is long yet…

    Peace.

  225. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    Nothing here to disagree, Talha. Yet it is not without merit to posit that economic pressures lead to population movements; modern medicine without commensurate economic means cause population explosions leading to more economic pressures ending in population movements yet again.

    To have a stable world we need economic parity of at least some level.

    • Replies: @Talha
  226. L.K says:
    @jacques sheete

    Hey, jacques sheete,

    Contrary to what sad zionist LIARS such as this ‘biz’ scumbag, say, yes, of course the Palestinians exist:

    Palestinians are an ethnonational group[29][30][31][32][33][34][35] comprising the modern descendants of the peoples who have lived in Palestine over the centuries, including Jews and Samaritans, and who today are largely culturally and linguistically Arab.
    History and Genetics
    Nebel; et al. (2000). Human Genetics. 107: 630–641. doi:10.1007/s004390000426. PMID 11153918.“According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Muslim Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992)… Thus, our [genetic]findings are in good agreement with the historical record…”

  227. L.K says:

    Let’s take a look now at what some eyewitnesses who have spent time in occupied Palestine have to say on the matter:

    American Jewish Woman, Anna Baltzer, previously brainwashed by zio propaganda, exposes Israel Apartheid and Ethnic Cleansing

    Eva Bartlett An Eyewitnesses Account About How Israel Has Constructed a Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza

    ingaza.wordpress.com

    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
  228. Druid says:
    @Clyde

    Don’t forget to mention that a lot of that technology is stolen from the US kleptomaniac Israelis. They claim their high IQ as being respnsible. They have a massive IQ in thuggery and murder. Anything for the cause of this Talmudic trash interpretation of the Torah !

  229. L.K says:

    Another Zio ruse is to evoke the Right of Conquest re Palestine.

    It is just more BS, bc:

    …It(Right of Conquest) was traditionally a principle of international law that has gradually given way in modern times until its proscription after World War II…

    The completion of colonial conquest of much of the world (see the Scramble for Africa), the devastation of World War I and World War II, and the alignment of both the United States and the Soviet Union with the principle of self-determination led to the abandonment of the right of conquest in formal international law. The 1928 Kellogg–Briand Pact, the post-1945 Nuremberg Trials, the UN Charter, and the UN role in decolonization saw the progressive dismantling of this principle.

    Israel came into being after this ‘principle’ had already been dismantled. That was then, this is now.

  230. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    “Another apartheid country, South Africa, had to remake itself after becoming delegitimized and universally condemned, so the end of Israel is within sight. Without this endless font of strife and mendacity, the world will be a much better place. Amen.”

    The problem of Israel is not land-grabbing per se but land-grabbing with the natives intact. Israel Proper is reasonably sound because it was turned into a majority Jewish nation. West Bank is another matter because it has majority Palestinian population, and this is gonna be an ever worsening headache. The two-state farce has lost its cover. So, will West Bank be included into Israel? But that means huge increase in Arab numbers.

    The lesson of South Africa doesn’t really apply to Israel Proper. Apartheid was necessary for white rule since whites were the minority there. Democracy wasn’t possible if South Africa were to remain a civilized nation because blacks would take over and ruin everything. Given that only whites could rule a functioning modern nation in Africa, apartheid was justified on a civilizational grounds, i.e. if you want modern civilization in Africa, you have to ensure white rule By Any Means Necessary. Apartheid was seen as unjust on an egalitarian grounds that assume that all races are of equal character and quality. This basis has led to implosion of Zimbabwe and deterioration of South Africa, much of which is far worse now than under apartheid.
    South African under apartheid had iron rule of law — undemocratic but still lawful — whereas new South Africa is about rule of claw.

    Apartheid was necessary for whites to maintain order in South Africa. But the world, with its naive or cynical egalitarian ideology, forced democracy onto that country, and black rule since the early 90s had turned the nation into one giant Rape State.

    Israel is different. Arabs, problematic as they are, are not savage like blacks. Also, in Israel, due to ethnic cleansing of Nakba, Arabs were the minority. So, Israel could maintain a genuine democracy since Jews had numerical advantage. The most important thing for Jews is to keep this numerical advantage, and things would have been better for Jews if Nakba had kicked out all Arabs. But Jews kept many within Israel. During the 67 War, the smart thing for Jews to have done is push the remaining Arabs in Israel into West Bank then under Jewish occupation. Instead, Jews decided to grab the land and send Jews there.
    Jews could keep numerical advantage and forsake more land, or they could grab the land and undermine their numerical advantage. Jews went for the latter, and it’s been one headache after another since.

    Anyway, speaking of land-grabbing, does the US have the right to blame Israel? Look at all the US military bases all over the world. Isn’t that land-grabbing? And US invasion of Iraq, destruction of Libya, and etc are also land-grabbing. To be sure, much of this happened with considerable Jewish influence, but the point is US has little justification to be preaching to another nation, especially Israel whose policies had been enabled by US administrations — including Obama’s — for so long. And US has been the main pussy-grabbing nation. Look at all the Vietnamese women whose wombs were stuffed with American seeds. Vietnam is a whore nation of the US. The communists resisted and kicked the US out, but Vietnam is now whore nation once again due to capitalism.
    Btw, I’m not even sure Kerry’s speech was international in scope. It could be he’s trying to appease elements in the Democratic Party as the anti-Zionist factions seem to be growing in number and volume.

    Israel is a strange nation. It is accused of land-grabbing but it’s so small, even with West Bank and Golan Heights. So, it didn’t grab much. And it returned Sinai to Egypt long ago. It’s in the limelight because of its close ties to the US. If it were some isolated nation crushing another people, I don’t think people would care. There are terrible ethnic conflicts in Yemen and Afghanistan, but who cares? And not much noise about Chinese rule over Tibet and Uighurs.

    Jews lucked out because they took land from a untalented people with little symbolic value. If Palestinians had cranked out more heavy-hitters like Edward Said, things might have been different. But Palestinians have been dull and boring, only good at throwing rocks at tanks. Also, as the West dominates the world, its Politics of Conscience favors peoples who fascinate the Western Imagination, and they are Jews(Holocaust and Wealth/wit), blacks(slavery and sports/music), and homos(AIDS tragedy and fashion/entertainment). The West don’t have a strong view of Arabs as tragic victims or talented people. Now, if Israel had been founded in Uganda(as planned at one time), and if blacks had been crushed by Zionism, it would have been very different. Surely, even MLK, the pawn of Jewish power, couldn’t have endorsed Jews treating black Africans like a subject people, and it would have been far more difficult for Jews to forge an alliance between Holocaust Jews and Slavery blacks.

    Most people just don’t care about Palestinians, but this sad story in West Bank has been going on for too long. It’s impossible not to notice. Also, Israeli politics has gotten even more right-wing and close to the rightist movements in the West. Also, SJW’s are hungry for some Great Cause, and they don’t have after ‘gay marriage’ and after BLM turned into total crap. Also, people, right or left, who are pissed about Jewish Power, can pick on Israel since anti-Zionism is still permissible in the way that ‘antisemitism’ isn’t.

    In some ways, imperialism saved nations/peoples. In some ways, it destroyed nations/peoples. In some ways, it created new nations/peoples.

    Look at Cambodia. Prior to arrival of French Imperialism, it was fated for extinction as Vietnamese from the east and Thais from the west were gobbling it up. Viet and Siamese land-grabbers were local imperialists. But the French came and stopped the process. Cambodia came to be preserved as part of Indochina, and French archaeological findings revived a sense of Cambodian identity.

    In the case of Palestine, imperialism aided the Zionists to destroy the Palestinians. But then, in a way, imperialists also created the notion of ‘Palestine’. Prior to Western imperialists, people in that part of the region didn’t see themselves as ‘Palestinian’. They were Arabs of some clan or another. They were ‘Palestinian’ in the sense of inhabiting part of ancient Palestine, but the nationalist identity of ‘Palestinian-ness’ was imposed on the locals by the imperialists.

    And then, all the new nations carved out in Middle East and Africa resulted in land-grabbing by some dominant tribe. An average Arab or African nation is made up of several or even many tribes, clans, or ethnic groups. That means the dominant group is essentially grabbing and occupying the lands inhabited by other groups who resent the dominant group. This has accounted for so many wars in Africa. And the recent wars in the Middle East shows that allowing freedom leads to something like Yugoslavia in the 90s. So, they all suffer from the politics of land-grabbing. Even if these nations didn’t come into being by one group grabbing other lands, they were created by Western imperialists to result in scenario where some dominant clan or ethnic group would be ‘grabbing’ and dominating other peoples. The most tragic people in this regard in the Middle East are the Kurds, a non-Arabic and non-Turkic people, who were not given a land of their own but divided among several nations.

    Today, the part of the world whose land is being grabbed most is the West. To be sure, the West is INVITING its own destruction, not least because the minds of the Western Elites have been infected by the GLOB virus.
    Just like Palestinian elites and wealthy folks betrayed their own people by selling land to Jewish settlers who later evicted the poor Palestinians, the Western elites like Trudeau no longer care about their own people. Canadian elites are willing to welcome any Chinese or Hindu with lots of cash. Same with cuck elites in Australia.
    As long as the elites get to remain in the Club of the Privileged, they don’t care about the Deplorables.
    This is so much like what the Arab land-owning rich did. Prior to arrival of Jews, they owned lots of land and hired Arab labor. But when offered big cash, they sold the land to the Jews and retired to Cairo to live the good life while their fellow Arab working folks were reduced to squatters on Jewish land soon to be evicted.

    That’s how elites act without nationalist-fascist consciousness. One good thing about Israel is the bond between the elites and the masses. That is the core of all healthy nation.

    • Troll: landlubber
    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  231. L.K says:

    Too many cheap zio LIES are still pushed about Palestine and Palestinians and about the creation of Israel.
    This needs to be fought with the actual facts.

    In the 19th century the land of Palestine was inhabited by a multicultural population – approximately 86 percent Muslim, 10 percent Christian, and 4 percent Jewish – living in peace.

    Notice there were very few Jews.

    In the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as Zionists, they represented an extremist minority of the Jewish population. Their goal was to create a Jewish homeland, and they considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine.[2][...]

    This, of course, generated conflict.

    ..in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land. Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land.

    The Zio Myths and Lies re the 1947-1949 War

    While it is widely reported that the resulting war eventually included five Arab armies, less well known is the fact that throughout this war Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants combined – often by a factor of two to three. Moreover, Arab armies did not invade Israel – virtually all battles were fought on land that was to have been the Palestinian state.

    Finally, it is significant to note that Arab armies entered the conflict only after Zionist forces had committed 16 massacres, including the grisly massacre of over 100 men, women, and children at Deir Yassin.

    Full article at

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

    AT the top of the page one can find 4 maps showing the near total loss of Palestinian land to Zionism, from 1947 to the present…
    The website is from researcher and author, Alison Weir, who wrote the excellent:
    Against Our Better Judgment: The Hidden History of How the U.S. Was Used to Create Israel

    https://www.amazon.com/Against-Our-Better-Judgment-History/dp/149591092X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1483483607&sr=1-1&keywords=against+our+better+judgement

  232. L.K says:

    Alan Hart, a former BBC ME correspondent and author of several books on the israel/Palestine conflict, has this to say on Israel’s creation:

    [...]In the name of pragmatism, willingness to “merely to recognise” Israel – meaning to accept and live in peace with an Israel inside its pre-June ’67 borders – has long been the formal Palestinian and all-Arab position. Why does it stop short of recognising Israel’s “right to exist”, and why, really, does it matter so much to Zionism that Palestinians recognise this right?

    The answer is in the following.

    According to history as written by the winner, Zionism, Israel was given its birth certificate and thus legitimacy by the UN Partition Resolution of 29 November 1947. This is propaganda nonsense.

    - In the first place the UN without the consent of the majority of the people of Palestine did not have the right to decide to partition Palestine or assign any part of its territory to a minority of alien immigrants in order for them to establish a state of their own.

    -Despite that, by the narrowest of margins, and only after a rigged vote, the UN General Assembly did pass a resolution to partition Palestine and create two states, one Arab, one Jewish, with Jerusalem not part of either. But the General Assembly resolution was only a proposal – meaning that it could have no effect, would not become policy, unless approved by the Security Council.

    -The truth is that the General Assembly’s partition proposal never went to the Security Council for consideration. Why not? Because the U.S. knew that, if approved, it could only be implemented by force given the extent of Arab and other Muslim opposition to it; and President Truman was not prepared to use force to partition Palestine.

    -So the partition plan was vitiated (became invalid) and the question of what the hell to do about Palestine – after Britain had made a mess of it and walked away, effectively surrendering to Zionist terrorism – was taken back to the General Assembly for more discussion. The option favoured and proposed by the U.S. was temporary UN Trusteeship. It was while the General Assembly was debating what do that Israel unilaterally declared itself to be in existence – actually in defiance of the will of the organised international community, including the Truman administration.
    The truth of the time was that the Zionist state, which came into being mainly as a consequence of pre-planned ethnic cleansing, had no right to exist and, more to the point, could have no right to exist UNLESS … Unless it was recognised and legitimized by those who were dispossessed of their land and their rights during the creation of the Zionist state. In international law only the Palestinians could give Israel the legitimacy it craved.

    And that legitimacy was the only thing the Zionists could not and cannot take from the Palestinians by force.[...]

  233. Talha says:
    @Marcus

    C’mon Marcus,

    who converted due to force, pressure, or to move up in status

    Give us a little credit, bro. Nobody converted out of sincerity? Especially when that area has always been a big fan of Sufi orders of various stripes (and remains to this day).

    they are just a mish-mash of Arabs, Arabized Levantines and other elements

    That’s also what I conclude from what I’ve read also – the other elements are varied from admixture of the many elements that have crossed that area; Circassian, Mongol, Latins, Turk, etc. Yes and even Jews who converted.

    ““The closest genetic neighbors to most Jewish groups were the Palestinians, Israeli Bedouins, and Druze in addition to the Southern Europeans, including Cypriots,” as Ostrer and Skorecki wrote in a review of their findings that they co-authored in the journal Human Genetics in October 2012.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/science/1.681385

    Doh!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Marcus
  234. Druid says:
    @Mario64

    Well countered, mate! The psychos on so many sites so easily demonize Muslims as a group are blind to their immoral wars, regime changes, murders, false flags, Ziofascist obsessions, end of time BS, etc

  235. Druid says:
    @Anonymous

    The suggestion that they were responsible in large part is true!

  236. Eagle Eye says:
    @L.K

    Thank you, L.K., for presenting your facts and arguments in such a succinct and clear manner for our education and enlightenment.

  237. Druid says:
    @biz

    Your history is either jaded or lacking. Muslims conquered it, true, but the locals converted, many even Jews.

  238. Clyde says:
    @Skeptikal

    Islam was born in the driest desert of the world where life is very tough and water must be hoarded. They were nomadic herders or mostly so. They believe their phony baloney Allah telling them the whole world belongs to Islam. Notice how just about all Islamic nations are arid or half desert where irrigation is required to grow crops. The conscious and subconscious imperative of imperialist Islam’s lebensraum is to take over the green nations of the world where there is abundant rainfall. Where there is lots of greenery and vegetation. Where growing crops is easier.

    Europe is this place. Allah has promised it to Muslims. I have read about them saying so. Muslims love Europe because it is green and livable. Compare it to Tunisia, Egypt or Algeria which are mostly desert. Where would you rather live?

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  239. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    Vidal wrote, “…history is nothing more than the bloody record of the migration of tribes.” He had a way with words, didn’t he?

    To have a stable world we need economic parity of at least some level.

    To have economic parity, we need a stable world. Which, again, is not helped by invasions or breaking apart stable countries.

    On one note, I’m fine with hoping for some level of raising the technological and economic levels in the Muslim world. I actually hope that Islam can keep it from rising to the level in the West. I have seen what that level of materialism can do and I do not wish it upon my brothers and sisters – paradise is for the next world and self-imposed abstinence is a lost art – nay, a treasure.

    Personally, I never want people like this to disappear:
    “While in Geru, I came to know a great saint and scholar, Sidi Minnu, who was already an old man at the time. He memorized all of the Hisn al-Hasin of Imam al-Jazari and recited it everyday. His other time was spent in praying for the entire Ummah. Once, we were sitting on the sand and he picked some up with his hand and said to me, ‘Never be far away from the earth, for this is our mother.’ He then said something that struck me to the core: ‘I have never regretted anything in my entire life, nor have I ever wished for anything that I did not or could not have, but right now I wish that I was a young man so that I could accompany you on this great journey of yours to seek knowledge for the sake of God.’”

    https://sandala.org/another-mother-of-the-believers/

    On a related note, for those who are constantly hounding the Muslim world for being technologically and economically backwards due to their religion – I want them to seriously think through the idea of shaking the belief in a religion that discourages or impedes 1.6 billion and growing people from consuming resources per capita at the rate of an urban Parisians. Utter and criminal folly may be words too kind.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  240. @mcohen

    Why not write this article? Why does he have to have been to Israel?

    What is your argument against what he has written? Do you have an argument or just a lot of lower case twaddle?

    Yes, you like a lot of colorful safari-talk about the goyim. I bet you just love the Coen brothers. But criticism of Israel or Jewish mendacity in general disturbs you greatly.

    Some things never change.

    • Replies: @mcohen
  241. @L.K

    Yes, the Hasbarists are well-organized and never far away, especially when they sense that criticism of Israel is being spread to new audiences.

    Disgusting–but hardly unexpected.

    • Replies: @iffen
  242. @Marcus

    What is the difference between a “Levantine” and a Canaanite?

    The Aramaic and Canaanite speakers have not “disappeared” despite the best efforts of the murderous Yahweh cult. (God told us to genocide them because he wanted US to have their land!!) It’s just that they speak Arabic now.

  243. Eagle Eye says:
    @biz

    In fact, when it comes to the land between the Med and the Jordan River, most of the Muslim tribes and lineages there are remarkably recent arrivals.

    Quite true of the *Muslim tribes* in Judea and Samaria. (Puffington Host readers have learned to call this area the “West Bank” and to virtue-signal about it vociferously, without, of course, being able to find it on a map.)

    Just as significantly, many current “Palestinians” are recent descendants of non-Arab and mostly non-Muslim settlers who migrated to the area during the Ottoman era: Greeks, Armenians, Turks, Circassians, Georgians, Persians, etc. as noted by other commenters above.

  244. @OilcanFloyd

    Israel is made up of parasites so how could it not be a parasite nation?

    Why did Jews migrate in such large numbers into the Greek-speaking world in the late centuries BC that a majority of Jews lived outside “Judaea” by the 1st century AD?

    Too many cultists in one place is so combustible that large numbers of them must clear out and fix their lamprey-like teeth onto goy communities across the globe.

  245. @Anon

    The main issue in regard to Israel is strategic. Israel is a huge strategic liability to the US. The fact that disloyal American jewry can force the USG to support Israel despite its role in progressively alienating an entire region from the US and preparing the ground for China, shows how deeply decadent a Jew-inflected state really is.

  246. @Sam Shama

    I have to admit your posts unfailingly echo a mix of honesty and humour.

    That’s why my middle names are Democritus and Menippus! ;)

  247. iffen says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    criticism of Israel is being spread to new audiences

    Unz readers (and some writers) are shocked! Shocked, I say!

  248. iffen says:
    @L.K

    work overtime

    Wait a minute! They’re paying overtime!

    I didn’t get a single extra shekel this week.

    Why those tight-fisted, money-grubbing, etc., etc.

  249. Eagle Eye says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Interesting. Chí Phèo sounds like a Vietnamese version of “The True Story of Ah Q” by Lu Xun.

    Of course, noting that Vietnamese culture has been significantly influenced by China is taboo among semi-educated Westerners who live in eternal terror of being accused of the heresy of – gasp! – “Orientalism.” To adepts of PC purity, non-Western cultures are by definition noble and pure, never influenced by each other or the West.

    In fact, the millenia of interplay between native Vietnamese, Chinese and many other influences should be a fascinating field.

    Indeed, the mass murder and expulsion of “Hoa” (ethnic Chinese in Vietnam) by the prevailing North Vietnamese after 1975 indicates that the issue of ethnic and cultural identity was viewed as a life-and-death issue until quite recently and probably remains so today albeit in less open form. (One recalls, of course, that Vietnam war leaders had experienced Japan’s brand of ethnic supremacist ideology at first hand during WW II.)

  250. Clyde says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    Israel’s slaughter campaigns against powerless civilian populations in Gaza and Lebanon most definitely do not qualify. As your own example clearly demonstrates, Israel’s behavior qualifies as a war crime without there being an actual war.

    It is a war crime to fire rockets into Israel. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Nothing much from Gaza and South Lebanon in years. The 5x daily head bumpers of Hezbollah are too busy fighting Shiite-Alewite gangster wars against Sunni gangsters and Sunni 5x daily head bumpers. Keep bumping away boyos and leave the Israelis out of it.
    World’s sympathies for the Palestinians has ebbed away as they see the true nature of Islam. With Sunni and Shiite crazies killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Syria, Libya and so on. With the daily to weekly barbarism of ISIS sent out to the world in videos, to inspire the so called Muslim Ummah to man up and fight, fight, fight. The Israelis and their IDF are choirboys in comparison.

  251. Talha says:
    @Clyde

    Mawlana Saheb,

    You seem to have fallen into bad company, maybe Spencer? No worries, this can be remedied – here are some academic works on the subject:

    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8280.html

    https://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Islam-Others-Saw-Zoroastrian/dp/0878501258

    The word Islam means submission.

    OMG – no way! LOL! Wait a minute, let me check my Arabic lexicon…yup, there it is – first entry. Whaddya know!

    But all infidels must submit to…

    …whatever god they deem fit. There finished for you.

    Seriously though, if I had a dollar for every time you copy-pasted this canned response, I could probably cut out the middle man and offer to relocate the Palestinians myself.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  252. @Carlton Meyer

    One more barking mad piece of zionist shit.
    The US should have glassed Israel in 1967.

    • Replies: @iffen
  253. Marcus says:
    @Talha

    I think this was mainly true in the Balkans, by which time the government didn’t want converts since that would its erode tax base . There are accounts of even forced conversions in Anatolia, but none I know of in the Balkans other than devshirme (which didn’t affect most people). The Balkan peoples who converted probably did so out of deep cultural or religious divides (remember the Bogomils) rather than government pressure.

    • Replies: @Talha
  254. mcohen says:
    @Oscar Peterson

    oscar

    coen brothers are geniuses.great movies.big l was a laugh

    i have no arguement because the article is click bait.i just added more meat to the hook.ladies like you need to just say something.
    the last sentence should have alerted you but obviously you missed it.amen……or should i say ahhh men.kek

    question for you

    who are the people in the pic with the article.find out.you might learn something about bait

  255. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    [On a related note, for those who are constantly hounding the Muslim world for being technologically and economically backwards due to their religion – I want them to seriously think through the idea of shaking the belief in a religion that discourages or impedes 1.6 billion and growing people from consuming resources per capita at the rate of an urban Parisians. Utter and criminal folly may be words too kind.]

    Did not mean to give the impression that the Muslim world is backward or any such thing. My purpose was simply to underscore the economic impetus to migrate. I am not proposing an entire globe enjoying a living standard similar to that of a Parisian – G’d knows that would be unsustainable, and indeed ‘enjoying,’ possibly a word flawed in context :-), for I agree with you re: a life of balance, not extravagance.

    Really moved by the simple honesty if the words of the scholar Sidi Minnu.

    • Replies: @Talha
  256. @Clyde

    The vomiting of the state of Israel on the people of Palestine was the biggest mistake since WWII.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
    , @Eagle Eye
  257. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    I do not copy-paste my own material. I have it memorized. My mind is in gear and does not need any 5x daily head bumping to stimulate it. BTW what happens when a Muslim does not do the 5x daily? Do others get suspicious of him turning apostate and report him to the Imam?

    I know Islam is designed to make leaving it difficult. The 5x daily routine is powerful self-brainwashing, but with all credit of course to alleged Allah. I know Muslims hate dogs but the 5x daily bump-a-thon is classic Pavlovian conditioning.

    • Replies: @Talha
  258. Skeptikal says:
    @Bill Jones

    Agree.
    No, biggest mistake of the twentieth C.

  259. joey says:

    Not sure of this, but was the total death count in WAR #2 about 60 million, including 25 million Russians??

    Of the chosen-some believe 6 million.

    10%

    Maybe.

  260. nsa says:

    The present PM of Israel was a furniture salesman in Philadelphia…..you know, the kind of jooies who X out an absurdly high price written above the sale price. In their view, Yahweh invented Christians so there would be someone to bend over and pay retail.

  261. Talha says:
    @Marcus

    Hey Marcus,

    This looks like exactly what we are looking for:

    http://www.medievalhistories.com/islam-and-christianity-in-medieval-anatolia/

    Read the review – apparently a lot of stuff was going on, there doesn’t seem to be one simple narrative for what happened in Anatolia (especially over the centuries). Well worth the read (especially the ‘Part III’):

    https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/tmr/article/view/21128/27105

    I definitely learned some things like I didn’t know the more orthodox won out pretty late in the game – very interesting.

    Peace.

  262. Talha says:
    @Clyde

    Mawlana Saheb,

    BTW what happens when a Muslim does not do the 5x daily?

    He’s supposed to make it up – it’s in Quduri, remember?

    Do others get suspicious of him turning apostate and report him to the Imam?

    If they are meddlesome cranks, maybe. The qadi will likely boot them out because he has better things to do.

    I know Islam is designed to make leaving it difficult.

    True that.

    I know Muslims hate dogs

    Some do – as do some non-Muslims. I like them, I think they are great, loyal animals. The Maliki school is pretty chill with them and I know a student who studied with the great Maliki scholar Murabit al-Hajj and reported that he saw him feeding dogs from the same hand that he would eat out of and his own plate. And there’s this:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Clyde
  263. Eagle Eye says:
    @L.K

    Speaking of dumb American women who just had to experience the THRUST of “Palestinian” terrorism up close and personal, pride of place must surely go to the insipid Rachel “PANCAKE” Corrie.

    Pancake Corrie tried to stop the building of an anti-terrorist wall by placing herself in the path of a bulldozer. Sadly, she was outside the field of vision of the bulldozer operator. This is how she became Pancake Corrie.

  264. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    I could have saved you a bunch of typing – that side note was not meant for you; I didn’t think that was what you were implying. You were simply making a valid observation. That was meant for the people that cannot see past gadgets and tall buildings.

    Really moved by the simple honesty if the words of the scholar Sidi Minnu.

    I figured you’d be able to appreciate them.

    My teacher (a very accomplished pathologist) once told us; give me a person and I can make them into a doctor or engineer very easily, that is no accomplishment, that happens all the time – to make someone truly human, that is indeed difficult.

    The same person who wrote that article, also studied under the great Mauritanian Maliki scholar Murabit al-Hajj who has literally spent almost a century living an austere life, teaching the sacred law and has never said an unkind word about any human being (testified by people who have known him for over 80 years) reported that he would repeat this prayer often:
    “O my Lord, when that which there is repelling alights upon me,
    And I find myself leaving this abode,
    And become Your guest in a dark and lonely place,
    Then make the host’s meal for his guest the removal of my wrongs.
    A guest is always honored at the hands of a generous host,
    And You are the Generous, the Creator, the Originator.
    Surely kings, as a way of displaying their magnanimity,
    Free their servants who have grown old in their service.
    And I have grown old in Your service,
    So free my soul from the Fire.”

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  265. Eagle Eye says:
    @Bill Jones

    “Bill Jones”? Is that you, Ahmad?

    BTW how is your headache? You may want to go easy on the head-bumping. Five times a day must take a toll.

  266. paratrop says:
    @Clyde

    Ah – the mcohen of mondoweiss fame. If it is a skunk mcohen why do you post there so much?

    And I answered your post, Clyde.

  267. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Talha

    A guest is always honored at the hands of a generous host

    Hi Talha,

    That line makes me think of my friend, Do Kh. Born in Vietnam, he’s spent much of his adult life in France and the US. While studying in Paris, he fell in love with a Lebanese woman, but she had to return to Beirut. Do Kh. went there to continue courting her. In Beirut, her parents treated this strange Vietnamese interloper most graciously, although their daughter already had a fiance, and even the fiance treated Do Kh. very decently.

    Living in Los Angeles, Do Khiem and his Lebanese wife have two children.

    Linh

    • Replies: @Talha
  268. @jacques sheete

    I have read that Uncle Ho wasn’t a communist at all, he was a nationalist. His first choice was to model the Vietnamese system on the USA and went so far as to ask for US assistance in doing just that but was refused due to the US not wanting to upset the French. I read that he then turned to communists for help and when asked if he was a Marxist or Trotskyist he asked which one was for national independence?

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
    , @Mao Cheng Ji
  269. Gabriel M says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    If there was no war, how come Hamas declared victory?

    Maybe you should co-ordinate your message with the people you are championing a bit better?

  270. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    Hi NoseytheDuke,

    Ho Chi Minh was certainly a Communist. Here is some basic information on Ho as lifted from a Columbia University chronology:

    1920
    Ho became a founding member of the newly created French Communist Party.

    1923
    Ho traveled to Russia for the first time. After subsequent visits, he became acquainted with the most influential Soviet leaders including Nikolai BUKHARIN, Leon TROTSKY, and Joseph STALIN. While in Russia, Ho was trained as an agent of the Comintern. He studied the thought of Marx and Lenin as well as organizational and revolutionary techniques.

    1925
    Ho traveled to China where he worked closely with Mikhail BORODIN, a fellow Comintern agent, to foment socialist revolution in China.

    In the West these days, it is standard to whitewash all Communist figures, while true nationalists as often demonized as Fascists or belittled as puppets.

  271. Gabriel M says:
    @Svigor

    I suppose this plays well to the Zionists and their Baptist stooges, but nobody else is buying this scheisse.

    Ooooh zing! I’ll repeat: Jordan, Egypt and Syria have successfully managed to stop Israelis from colonising any of their land by the simple expedient of not attacking Israel. Easy really. As for wars of extermination, if they didn’t mean it, I guess they shouldn’t have said it.

    Then they turn around and give the Palestinians the Warsaw Ghetto treatment.

    That would be a good point, except it’s not true. In general, you would have a better case if you could stick to saying things that are true.

  272. @NoseytheDuke

    I have read that Uncle Ho wasn’t a communist at all, he was a nationalist.

    Anti-imperialist. He was, first and foremost, pro-independence. Fought, since 1941 and till his death, Japan, France, and the US. One of the greatest men of the 20th century, standing as an equal among such anti-imperialist giants as Chairman Mao, El Comandante Fidel, and Colonel Gaddafi.

  273. Sam Shama says:
    @Svigor

    One could make the case: Jews are obviously the world’s biggest whiners about their own kind’s persecution, and their sanctimony on this, and any related subject has to be seen to be believed.

    One couldn’t make that case if, were the comments sections of the UR taken as sample space, the gaylord-stormfag collective’s incessant whines would surely leave in the dust any Jewish voices a distant last.

    • Replies: @Talha
  274. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Hey Sam,

    Sorry, but what is; “gaylord-stormfag”?

    I tried looking it up and the first entry I get is this:

    http://www.gaylordchamber.com/index.php?catid=8&month=11&year=2010&eventid=460

    Doesn’t quite sound right.

    Peace.

  275. Talha says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Hey Mr. Dinh,

    That is extremely gracious – wow! So did he get the girl or end up with another Lebanese lady? I can’t tell exactly.

    When I was in So Cal I used to frequent Masjid Rahman, surrounded by the Vietnamese community in ‘Little Saigon’ aka Garden Grove. The relations between Vietnamese and the Muslims was good and cordial – hope it has gotten even better.

    When I lived in Fullerton, I sometimes attended a small musallah (prayer area that is not dedicated yet as a mosque) run by the Cham community. It was great attending the Friday prayers there; the young brother would speak mostly in Cham, while peppering it with Arabic phrases at the appropriate places. I could barely understand a word, but it was a wonderful experience and I felt an immense appreciation that I was able to able to share it with them.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Anon-og
    , @Linh Dinh
    , @Tony
  276. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    Hahahaaa. I really liked that description of White supremacists frequenting stormfront.org [I think]. It was coined by another commentator here:

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/the-end-of-israel/#comment-1715196

    • Replies: @Talha
  277. @Talha

    If I Google “gaylord white supremacist” I get a reference to a Chicago based white gang. Is that what gaylord refers to?

    Enlighten us, please.

  278. annamaria says:
    @Clyde

    “…you have a one track mind…you only see what Israelis have done”
    This is a comment section on an article titled “The end of Israel.” Moreover, it is not the state of Israel and its activities that worry me but the power of Israel-firsters in the US, whose influence on the US policies has been bloody destructive on a massive scale.

    The Muslims have been generally more tolerant to the Jews than the Christians (see, for instance, the status of Jews in an empire of Suleiman the Magnificent).
    In more recent times, the convergence of interests has brought oilmen and Zionists together in the Middle East. We witness an interesting configuration of relationships when the US and Israel are allied with fanatical Islam (Qatari, Saudi Arabia) against secular Arab population (Iraq, Syria, Libya) with the devastating consequences for the secular states. The same formula could be observed on a micro scale in Ukraine, where neo-Nazis joined jihadists in a fight against separatists; moreover, the most vicious pro-Kiev battalions have been privately financed by certain wealthy Jews prominent in Jewish community of Ukraine (see Kolomojsky).
    It is factually correct to say that the US policies in the Middle East and Europe have been heavily influenced by neoconservatives, majority of them ziocons. If the US/Israel were truly concerned with the rise of fanatical Islam, then it would be only logical that US/Israel unite their efforts with Russian Federation against jihadists and for support of secular Arab states, particularly because Russia has demonstrated both a successful cooperation with secular Muslims (see, for instance, that a short Russian occupation of Afghanistan produced the first ever cohort of the university-trained Iraqi women), and a successful struggle with fanatical Islam (see Chechen and Syria). But there is no such west-east cooperation against religious fanatics: Currently, Russian Federation (mostly white and Christian, though rather secular in character) is under onslaught of russophobic policies (see Kagans’ clan and such).
    As for the inflow of Muslims to Europe, this is the direct result of the US/NATO interventions in the Middle East. These interventions have squeezed the native populations of the ruined states, as well as opened a gate for the waves of low IQ sub-Saharan Africans to Europe (see Qaddafi warning re African migrants’ invasion to Europe). The Project for New American Century was fundamentally a ziocon project.

    • Replies: @Ace
  279. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama

    Ah OK – it’s knocking the Stormfront folks. How does the whole gay thing come into effect? Is it because of that Milo guy?

    Peace.

    For the record; my cat’s name is Milo – and he is neither gay nor a supremacist.

    • Replies: @Sam Shama
  280. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Talha

    Perhaps a bit off topic but wanted to add to this discussion especially since Talha is one of my favorite commenters on here for being very knowledgeable, patient, kind and how he handles ignorance with class.

    Interesting quotes I came upon regarding Jews in the Quran, sounds pretty spot on to me

    [MORE]

    [62.6] Say: O you who are Jews, if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then invoke death If you are truthful.
    [5.82] Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
    [5.42] (They are) listeners of a lie, devourers of what is forbidden; therefore if they come to you, judge between them or turn aside from them, and if you turn aside from them, they shall not harm you in any way; and if you judge, judge between them with equity; surely Allah loves those who judge equitably.
    [5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

    [5.13] But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).
    [4.160] Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah’s way.
    [4.161] And their taking usury though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the unbelievers from among them a painful chastisement.
    17:4
    ﮀﮁﮂﮃﮄﮅﮆﮇﮈﮉﮊﮋﮌﮍ
    “And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, “You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.

    • Replies: @Talha
  281. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Talha

    An interesting article I came upon as well, your thoughts and apologies for tasking you with all this reading

    In the Twilight of Empires

    “it’s time to talk about Israel.

    [MORE]

    By this I don’t mean that we need to go through yet another round of who-did-what-to-whom rhetoric in the shrill tones of moral absolutism that pervade the subject these days. There’s a point to discussing ethical issues surrounding the origins, conduct, and future of the nation-state of Israel, to be sure, but that discussion is already happening elsewhere, or more precisely would be happening if most of the potential participants weren’t too busy shouting past each other.  What gets misplaced in all the noise, though, is that this is not the only discussion worth having.

    In particular, the central theme of this series of posts—the decline and fall of America’s global empire—has aspects that are easiest to see from the perspective of one of America’s more vulnerable client states.  Those aspects are not particularly moral in nature, and the stridently self-righteous arguments that fill most current discussions of Israel’s fate have nothing to contribute here.  For the moment, then, I’d like to set aside squabbles about whether the nation-state of Israel as currently constituted should survive, and ask instead whether, in the post-American world of the not too distant future, it can survive. That’s a much simpler question, and the answer is equally simple:  no.

    To explain that answer, I’d like to tell a story.  Once upon a time—isn’t that how stories are supposed to begin?—there was a group of people who believed that their god had promised them a particular corner of the Middle East, and decided to take him up on the offer. It so happened that conditions just then were propitious for their project.  The cultural politics of the major Western powers of the time favored it, and not merely in an abstract sense:  money and weapons could be had for the attempt, and a great deal more could be made available if the project succeeded in establishing a foothold.

    Even more crucial was the state of the Middle East at that time.  The history of that region has a regular rhythm of systole and diastole that can be traced back very nearly to the earliest clay-tablet records: periods of centralization, in which a single major Middle Eastern power dominates as large a fraction of the world as the current transport technology will allow, alternate with periods of disintegration, in which the region fragments and turns into a chessboard on which powers from outside the region play their own power games.  At the time we’re discussing, the Middle East was in one of its diastole phases, fractured into small quarrelling states, and the sudden seizure of a strategically important part of the region drew only a local and ineffective response.

    So a new state came into being, surrounded by hostile neighbors, and a great deal of the shrill self-justifying rhetoric already described came from both sides of the new frontiers. Several of the major Western powers supported the new state with significant financial and military aid; of at least equal importance, members of the religious community responsible for creating the new state, who remained back in those same Western nations, engaged in vigorous fundraising efforts to support the new state, and equally vigorous political efforts to get existing governmental support maintained or increased. The resources thus made available to the new state gave it a substantial military edge against its hostile neighbors, and its existence became enough of a fait accompli that some of its neighbors backed away from a wholly confrontational stance.

    Still, the state’s survival depended on three things.  The first, and by far the most crucial, was the ongoing flow of support from the Western powers to pay for a military establishment far larger than the economic and natural resources of the territory in question would permit.  The second was the continued fragmentation and relative weakness of the surrounding states.  The third was the maintenance of internal peace within the state and of collective assent to a clear sense of priorities, so that it could respond with its full force to threats from outside instead of squandering its limited resources on civil strife or popular projects that contributed nothing to its survival.

    In the long run, none of these three conditions could be met indefinitely.  Shifts in cultural politics and, more importantly, in the economic stability of the Western powers of the time turned the large subsidies supporting the state into a political liability that eventually lost out in the struggle for available wealth. Meanwhile, in the Middle East, the power struggles between competing statelets began to give way to a new era of centralization.  Finally, the internal cohesion of the state broke down in power struggles between different factions, and too many resources had been committed to politically necessary but practically useless projects such as the support of large religious communities that did nothing but pray and study the scriptures.  The arrogant certainty that the state could always overcome its enemies and that the Western powers owed it the subsidies that paid for its survival put bitter icing on an already overbaked cake, and all but guaranteed the final disaster.

    And that, dear reader, was why the Crusader kingdom of Jerusalem fell to the armies of Saladin in  1187, and why the last scraps of the kingdoms of Outremer, as the Crusaders called the land now known as Israel, were mopped up by Muslim armies over the century that followed.

    Now I’m quite aware that comparing the current state of Israel to the Crusader states of Outremer is waving a red flag at some already overexcited bulls.  Any of my readers who are ready to leap up and insist that Israel either can or can’t be compared to the Crusaders on moral grounds are encouraged to stop, and remember that that’s not what we’re talking about. The relative moral standing of Crusaders and Israelis is irrelevant to the issues this post is trying to discuss; what’s relevant is that, in the purely pragmatic realms of politics and war, there are a great many parallels between the two examples.

    To begin with, Israel, as Outremer did in its time, depends for its survival on very large subsidies from the major Western powers.  In the case of Israel, those mostly come from the United States.  The US government spends many billions of dollars a year on direct and indirect aid to Israel, while America’s large and relatively wealthy Jewish community—which comprises the largest number of Jews in any single nation on Earth—engages in a great deal of fundraising for Israel on its own behalf.  Many synagogues and other Jewish community instititions in America serve just as effectively to channel resources to Israel as, say, the European properties and chapter houses of the Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller did to keep wealth and weapons flowing to the kingdoms of Outremer.  Without that aid, governmental and private, the large and well-equipped Israeli military would be far too great a burden on the economy of what is, after all, a very small and resource-poor country, and the balance of power in the region would shift dramatically to Israel’s disadvantage.

    Equally, the continued fragmentation of the Middle East is a crucial factor in Israel’s survival. The last two centuries or so have seen the long rhythm of Middle Eastern history enter a diastole period, splintering the once-powerful Ottoman Empire into more than two dozen small, quarrelsome, and vulnerable nations that were generally unable to counter incursions from Europe and America. To a real extent, the current condition of the Middle East is one of waiting for the next Saladin, with Iran, Turkey, or a future Islamic Republic of Arabia likely contenders for the center around which the next Middle Eastern superstate will coalesce. Of course it’s a core principle of Israeli diplomacy and military strategy to prevent the emergence of a single center of power capable of  mobilizing any large fraction of the resources of the Arab world; still, it bears remembering that this was an equally central principle of the strategy of Outremer, and the Crusaders’ efforts in this direction eventually failed.

    I don’t propose to pass judgment on the current state of Israeli politics and culture, even to the extent of deciding whether current trends toward political factionalism and the support of Orthodox communities at state expense do or don’t mirror the vicious political infighting of the Kingdom of Jerusalem’s final decades and the economic burden of Christian monasteries and nunneries that played so large a role in weakening Outremer. The crucial point just now, it seems to me, is Israel’s dependence on a constant inflow of funds from the United States.  If that goes away, the military balance of power shifts irrevocably, and so does the Israeli government’s capacity to afford the unproductive but politically necessary payoffs that maintain such social cohesion as there is; these shifts, in turn, promise an outcome as unwelcome to Israel, at least as currently constituted, as the equivalent was to Outremer.

    One of the central consequences of the trajectory of imperial decline we’ve been discussing over the course of the past year, in turn, is that the capacity of the United States government to afford lavish subsidies to client states overseas, as well as the capacity of any significant group of American citizens to carry out large-scale fundraising projects on their own, will not last indefinitely.  The United States has the ample wealth that allows it to support Israel because of the imperial wealth pump, that is to say, the systematic patterns of unbalanced exchange that funnel an oversized share of the world’s wealth into American hands.  As those patterns break down—and they are breaking down already—the subsidies that keep the Israeli economy afloat and make its current rate of military expenditure possible  will inevitably slow to a trickle and then stop.

     When that happens, Israel will find itself backed into a corner with no readily available means of escape. Finding another nation willing to take over the American role as sugar daddy is easier said than done; much of the support Israel gets from the US comes out of the fact that the American Jewish community is one of the better organized veto groups in American politics just now, with the votes and funding to swing a close election, while none of the rising powers likely to take over America’s role in the world has either a large enough Jewish minority or a political system sufficiently gridlocked to allow the same sort of pressure to be applied.  Given a choice between funding Israel and placating the petroleum-rich nations and ample export markets of the Arab world, it’s not hard to see where, for example, China’s obvious interest lies.

    Lacking outside support, in turn, Israel faces a future in which it can no longer dominate its region and may not be able to ward off military threats.  Its military depends, like most modern militaries, on large and reliable inputs of petroleum products, and petroleum is one of the many resources that Israel lacks; its ability to import as much gasoline, diesel fuel, jet fuel, and so on as it needs depends, like so much else, on the subsidies it gets from the United States.  The ability to field a large and technically advanced military machine also depends on those direct and indirect subsidies.  Lacking them, Israel’s military potential is not much greater than, say, Lebanon’s or Jordan’s—not enough, in other words, to sustain anything like its current dominance.  Its nuclear arsenal gives it a temporary edge, but one that will last only until a rival power in the region equips itself with its own stockpile of warheads and delivery systems.

    It’s probably necessary at this point to put paid to one of the widely repeated fantasies of our time, the notion that Israel might set out to guarantee its survival by threatening the rest of the world with nuclear war, or might simply start flinging warheads around in the event of its imminent demise. That’s one of those theories that seems to make sense as long as no one asks what happens next. The downside to any such action on Israel’s part, of course, is that the nations threatened or attacked would be able to respond with far more compelling threats and far more devastating reprisals.

    To begin with, Israel is a very small country.  Any nation with a significant nuclear arsenal could turn the whole of it into incandescent ash, along with its entire population, and still have bombs left over.  The threat to wreck a city or two has very little clout when the cost of following through on that threat could quite easily amount to immediate national annihilation.

    Furthermore, many of the nations that might plausibly be threatened with a bomb or two can respond at least as effectively by means of conventional warfare. Let’s imagine, for example, that Israel were to threaten Russia, among other countries, with nuclear bombs—we’ll assume, borrowing one of the common tropes, that the bombs in question have been smuggled into Saint Petersburg and Moscow—unless something is done to stop an otherwise unstoppable Arab advance.  Anyone who thinks Russia would respond in a manner favorable to Israel knows nothing of Russian culture or history, but then that’s a common mistake on this side of the Atlantic.

    We’ll assume, for the moment, that for some reason the Russian government decides not to inform the Israelis calmly that thirty minutes after either bomb goes off, a MIRV-tipped missile or two will return the favor to Tel Aviv with several hundred kilotons of interest.  The obvious alternative is to inform the Israelis with equal sang-froid that if either bomb goes off, Russia will declare war on Israel, and twenty or thirty Russian divisions with air support and all the other desiderata of modern warfare will join the Arab forces assaulting Israel. We don’t even need to talk about what additional threats the Russian government might quietly make concerning, for example, Russia’s remaining Jewish population. The same logic applies to other countries facing some comparable threat, since the only nation that would face assured destruction in a nuclear exchange with Israel, after all, is Israel.

    The existence of Israel’s nuclear arsenal, mind you, makes it unlikely that the sort of final Arab assault beloved of American fundamentalist apocalypse-mongers will happen at any point in the near to middle future. A far more likely scenario, as America’s empire enters its twilight, would see economic and political crisis in Israel spiraling out of control as moderate and extremist factions scramble for control of a dwindling stock of wealth and resources, and everyone who has the resources and common sense to flee the country gets out.  How the endgame would play out is anyone’s guess at this point, and it’s not impossible that a few mushroom clouds may have a part in it one way or another. As I mentioned in last week’s post, the next few decades may well see a few nuclear weapons being used, and it’s exactly in situations like Israel’s that this seems most likely.

    The western shores of the Pacific Ocean include another flashpoint of the same kind.  Taiwan is another American client state that has everything to lose as America’s global empire goes down, and it’s also a likely focus of the old and bitter geopolitical rivalry between China and Japan. It’s a core requirement of Chinese policy to regain control of Taiwan in order to secure the Chinese coast against any hostile power; Ir’s an equally core requirement of Japanese policy to keep China from regaining control of Taiwan, in order to secure the sea lanes that carry Japan’s fuel and food supplies against Chinese interdiction. It’s hard to think of a more perfect zero-sum game in the post-American world.  Japan’s position is by far the weaker, and it will face the difficult choice between submitting to Chinese suzerainty, and going to war as it did in 1941 against a rising superpower with vastly greater resources. Either way, it’s not going to be pretty.

    That’s the sort of thing that happens routinely in the twilight of empires, when client states that have staked everything on support from an imperial patron find themselves twisting in the wind. In empires that expand by annexing territory, it’s the frontier provinces that get clobbered first and hardest when decline sets in; in empires that prefer to expand by building a network of client states, it’s the client states closest to major hostile powers that generally pay the heaviest price when the empire falters. Israel is wedged tightly into such a position; and its fate will be the result of the hard realities of history, not of any set of ethical considerations—nor, it probably has to be said, of which side in the current debates claims the moral high ground most loudly. “

    • Replies: @Talha
  282. @Linh Dinh

    I know some of the history of “Uncle” Ho. My request for info from LD was intended as a request for some insights from his view of things. I can Google all week ( and have) but I’ve never had the good fortune to hear a “real” person’s views.

    Like I said, the fact that LD was raised Roman Catholic plus his response about Communists in general tell me a lot about how he feels, and at this point I don’t expect much more. Still, given LD’s manifest sensitivities about people and situations, I was hoping for more.

    Recently I had a brief encounter with 2 Vietnamese dudes and upon departing after a little friendly banter, I asked them how to say “goodbye.” One said, “It’s “chao”, just like Italian.” I, with a huge and goofy grin asked him if he was Italian, and all three of us yucked it up good. I suspect I’ll see them again and maybe it’ll get to the point where I can ask them.

    Thanks anyway.

  283. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Talha

    Hi Talha,

    The same woman.

    Regarding the Cham, the only mosques to be found in Vietnam belong to that community. All of central Vietnam was once Champa, of course, so the Vietnamese gobbled up that entire kingdom. Spoken Vietnamese in central Vietnam has a much harsher accent than both north and south, and I suspect it’s because of Cham speakers.

    The first chunk of Cham territory lost to Vietnam has an interesting story. Wikipedia:

    In 1301, the Vietnamese Emperor’s father, Trần Nhân Tông, visited the Champa kingdom and was given a lavish royal welcome by King Jaya Sinhavarman III. The visit lasted nine months. When Trần Nhân Tông left Champa for Đại Việt (the name of Vietnam at the time), he promised to give his daughter in marriage to king Jaya Sinhavarman III even though the Cham king was already married and that Cham queen was a Javanese named Tapasi. Jaya Sinhavarman III thereafter sent many envoys to Đại Việt to urge the Trần King to carry out the marriage plan as Trần Nhân Tông had promised but the Emperor refused. Among the Emperor’s men, only General Van Tuc Dao Thai and Minister Trần Khắc Chung supported the marriage. In 1306 Jaya Sinhavarman III offered to cede the two Cham provinces of Chau O and Chau Ly as a dowry and Trần Anh Tông finally agreed to give his sister in marriage to the Cham king. Princess Huyền Trân went to Champa but a year later, in May 1307, Jaya Sinhavarman III died and the crown prince sent an ambassador to Đại Việt to offer white elephants as gifts and announced the death of his king. According to Cham tradition, all of the royal wives would be cremated with the dead king. King Trần Anh Tông ordered a general named Trần Khắc Chung to go to Champa to officially attend the funeral but the real mission was for Trần Khắc Chung to rescue Huyền Trân and take her back to Đại Việt by boat. The trip back took a year.

    Linh

    • Replies: @Talha
  284. Talha says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Hey Mr. Dinh,

    The same woman.

    Sweet – he followed his heart and she followed him in return – beautiful!

    As always, thanks for those insights.

    Peace.

  285. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha

    [How does the whole gay thing come into effect? Is it because of that Milo guy?]

    That’s certainly a possibility I suppose, though I don’t know much about Milo in spite of a young cousin mentioning him fairly often. He seems to be something of a fixation on campuses.

    My own thoughts had taken me to the Third Reich, which boasted an early membership not insignificantly made up of all manner of perverts.

    Better keep your cat with a Greek name from being seconded to the newly established Hellenic supremacy movement.

  286. Talha says:
    @Anon-og

    Hey Mike,

    Definitely the Qur’an often rides the Jews very hard in certain verses (and sometimes the Christians too, full disclosure). There are reasons for this. But first, keep in mind that it also extols certain people among them and distinguishes them from others. So for instance you have this verse which talks about nuances:
    “If you entrust some of the People of the Book, with a large quantity of gold, they will return it to you while if you entrust others among them with a small quantity of gold, they will not give it back to you unless you keep insisting on its return. For they say, ‘We are not bound to keep our words with the illiterate people,’ and they themselves knowingly ascribe false statements to God.” 3:75

    Often the reason for the harsh tone was that many of the Jews living in the Hijaz were pretty arrogant – not all, but a good number. This was due to a couple of main things; they were literate (especially in sacred literature) and most Arabs were pagans and illiterate so they considered them inferior, they also had an economic stranglehold on the community and almost everyone in Madinah was in debt to them (ie. they were the 1%).

    Secondly, they would often boast about all the great things their ancestors did (which were actually great) like their prophets, military victories, their saints, etc. Thus the Qur’an basically comes at them with: You want to boast about your past? Fine, own all of it – including all the horrible stuff that you aren’t telling people about. In essence it is a learning tool for us – which is why I don’t apologize for the past crimes like genocides done by Muslims.

    Another thing to note, if you have 8 minutes or so…one must be careful in some of the things that the Qur’an says in assuming they translate over fine into English – they often do not. For instance, the Qur’an often uses the term ‘The People’ or The Jews’ in a way that does not mean all of them – it may in fact, be referring to just one person. It is a valid rhetorical device in the Arabic language that may not exactly work in other languages. This is perhaps one of the best, concise explanations on this subject using the hadith, “I have been commanded to fight the people..” as a case study:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIJSHvYg0V4&feature=youtu.be&t=10s

    Peace.

    P.S. I’ll comment on your other post once I get a chance to review.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  287. Druid says:
    @biz

    Actually, Christians were a much higher percentage until Ziofascism. They emigrated and said it was because of Ziofascist practices in Israel.

  288. Svigor says:

    Another problem with Israel is that nationalism is just not Jewish. They are basically travelers going from country to country for the easiest pickings. When things get bad they just move on.

    On the contrary, Jewry’s as nationalist as they come. They just don’t want anyone else (who they can “pass” for) being nationalist. They don’t do that “move to a country, assimilate, join their nationalism” thing. Just look at Jewish participation rates in the American military.

    Ooooh zing! I’ll repeat: Jordan, Egypt and Syria have successfully managed to stop Israelis from colonising any of their land by the simple expedient of not attacking Israel. Easy really. As for wars of extermination, if they didn’t mean it, I guess they shouldn’t have said it.

    “Wars of extermination” is silly Zionist propaganda. The usual Jewish hyperbole.

    As for Israel’s neighbors, they’re safe from Israeli colonization…for now. But Jewish “lebensraum” is probably in their future.

    That would be a good point, except it’s not true. In general, you would have a better case if you could stick to saying things that are true.

    Jewish lawyering.

    One couldn’t make that case if, were the comments sections of the UR taken as sample space, the gaylord-stormfag collective’s incessant whines would surely leave in the dust any Jewish voices a distant last.

    I might disagree with that, if I could make any kind of sense out of it.

    I do notice that Zionists do seem much more simpatico with sodomites, and perverts of every stripe, than anyone on the right.

    • Replies: @Anon
  289. Svigor says:

    Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians is just an annoying sideshow to the greater dysfunctions in the Mideast. Even the Arabs don’t really care about the Palestinians any more.

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Indeed!”

    America’s “civil rights” and “minorities” problems are just an annoying sideshow to the greater dysfunctions in the western hemisphere. Even the Africans don’t really care about black Americans anymore (or like them much).

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Racist! Fascist! White Supremacist!”

  290. Svigor says:

    Every single invader that came to Jerusalem knew it was the spiritual land of the Jews.

    “The Spiritual Land of the Joooos!”

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Hear, hear!”

    Every single immigrant knows that White men built America. Manifest Destiny.

    Diaspora Jewish response: “Rrrraaaaacist! Faaaasciiiist! Imperialist!”

  291. @Svigor

    One could make the case: Jews are obviously the world’s biggest whiners about their own kind’s persecution, and their sanctimony on this, and any related subject has to be seen to be believed. “I am a Jew,” they announce by way of preamble, as if synonymous with “enlightened authority on all things humanitarian.” Then they turn around and give the Palestinians the Warsaw Ghetto treatment.

    The Warsaw Ghetto:

    The Warsaw Ghetto[5] (German: Warschauer Ghetto, officially Jüdischer Wohnbezirk in Warschau; Polish: getto warszawskie) was the largest of all the Jewish ghettos in Nazi-occupied Europe during World War II. It was established in the Muranów neighborhood of the Polish capital between October and November 16, 1940; within the new General Government territory of German-occupied Poland. There were over 400,000 Jews imprisoned there,[4] at an area of 3.4 km2 (1.3 sq mi), with an average of 7.2 persons per room;[6][7] barely subsisting on meager food rations.[7] From the Warsaw Ghetto, Jews were deported to Nazi camps and mass-killing centers. In the summer of 1942 at least 254,000 Ghetto residents were sent to the Treblinka extermination camp during Großaktion Warschau under the guise of “resettlement in the East” over the course of the summer.[7]

    The death toll among the Jewish inhabitants of the Ghetto is estimated to be at least 300,000 killed by bullet or gas,[8] combined with 92,000 victims of rampant hunger and hunger-related diseases, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, and the casualties of the final destruction of the Ghetto.

  292. vinteuil says:
    @Talha

    Serious question, Talha: do you ever comment at extremist websites that support isis, al qaeda, and the like, trying to persuade your fellow muslims that they should adopt your own “moderate” interpretation of Islam?

    I would be really interested in reading an exchange of views between you and one of these extremists.

    Has there ever been such an exchange?

    If so, can you provide a link?

  293. @Skeptikal

    I had a conversation with an Israeli who had been living in Australia for 25 years and was my Uber driver. When I suggested that of course there was a Palestinian people, created by Israel after 1948 he agreed but said the date should be 1967. He then added that he was actually a Palestinian, his parents having been born and grown up under the Mandate.

  294. mcohen says:

    That’s a good question.wonder what talha will reply.

  295. Sam J. says:

    “…Malaysian President Mahathir Mohamad described the founding of Israel as Europeans dumping their “Jewish problem” onto Muslims…”

    Unfortunately it didn’t work as we can’t get the rest of them to follow.

  296. @Linh Dinh

    Well thank you for taking the time to respond and for setting me straight. On reflexion I think I meant to say he was pro-independence not communist but perhaps I would still have been wrong. I haven’t looked into it very much but I do recall reading that he questioned which type of communism was for independence and given that Vietnam had been dominated by different nations over time it made sense to me.

    I had an interest in the war with the US because I know a few US vets from that era. One time a dear friend, a tough and abrasive ex-marine, started talking about the war and how it had killed the dream and destroyed America in a very chic and very crowded restaurant in Santa Monica. He became so emotional that he burst into tears and my one great concern at the time was that people were staring at us and possibly thinking we were gay and that I was breaking up with him. Yes, that is how shallow I am, or was.

    He’s dead now. He was one of the funniest humans I have ever met and I’ve known more very funny people than most. He drank himself to death though it took him decades to do it. Just one more victim of the Vietnam fiasco. RIP Terry.

    Too bad you never met him he would have been great material for you. I enjoy your writing Linh Dinh. Cheers.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  297. @vinteuil

    A very good question. I’d be interested too.

    Salaam Talha.

  298. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    Hi NoseytheDuke,

    I’ve talked to many vets on all sides, American, ARVN and NVA, and they were all used to benefit the fat cats. Two of my uncles died fighting for the ARVN, and my father-in-law spent 13 years in a reeducation camp, though only a captain in the ARVN.

    I describe one American vet in my Riverside (NJ) Postcard.

    Thomas Bass is in Philly, so I’ll have a few beers with him later. Bass wrote about one of the strangest characters from the war, Pham Xuan An.

    Linh

  299. Talha says:
    @vinteuil

    Hey venteuil,

    No, but before I explain, a couple of true anecdotes.

    1. When I lived in SoCal, a group of us ran a small public musallah where we used to pray and hold lectures. Not too far away, there was a Saudi funded mosque. The nigh after 9/11, two men that had never attended our gatherings showed up, decked out in ultra-Muslim garb, head to toe and began an argument with us about how 9/11 was justified and they wanted us to prove that it was not (from Qur’an and hadith). We were already associated with an elder imam from out of state who was our adviser and had already announced that neither did we support 9/11 nor was it justified. Who do you think those two men were and where were they from and what were they trying to do?
    2. Once browsing around the internet for source material from traditional Islam, I came across a website that had a wonderful collection of links of various books that had been scanned and made available for free on the internet (kind of like this one: https://archive.org/details/fatawa_tatarkhaniya). Perusing around the site further, I came across a collection of audio files from the late Anwar Awlaki. I beat a hasty retreat and don’t plan on going back.

    I am a forty year old man with a wife and four kids, I have no desire to jeopardize my life or their security by exploring places in the dark web like some Don Quixote tilting at windmills. I have not been visited by FBI, nor do I want to invite that upon myself. Mere association with a site is likely enough for any jury to convict my bearded, Muslim-looking self in the current environment. My family has an obligation on me as head of household that I don’t do stupid things.

    In fact, if you know where Daesh and other extremists hang out, please publish the links and I will make sure neither I nor my sons ever visit those sites.

    I will say, in my interactions with other Muslims on the internet in this and other forums, I cannot think of a single certifiable extremist that I have ever come across. I usually come across Muslims that have horrible etiquette and are very foul in their language. Usually what triggers them is non-Muslims denigrating Islam or the Prophet (pbuh) and they lose their cool. With those guys I have asked them to chill out and have better manners (I did so even here on UNZ with a couple of guys) sometimes they listen, sometimes not. Are those angry Muslim guys potential for extremist fodder? Possibly, but nothing has indicated that they are in that state when I come across them.

    As for doing my part, I help run a growing Muslim youth group (boys 11-15, the prime target of extremists within a few years) in our area in which we not only do fun activities, but also introduce them to traditional Islam (including exposure to Sufism) and build a core identity before someone else does it for them.

    Let’s see what British intelligence has to say on the subject:
    “Far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could actually be regarded as religious novices. Very few have been brought up in strongly religious households, and there is a higher than average proportion of converts. Some are involved in drug-taking, drinking alcohol and visiting prostitutes. MI5 says there is evidence that a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/aug/20/uksecurity.terrorism1

    Keep watching the profiles on the perpetrators that commit these acts every month or so; please inform me when you find some student of sacred law in the, say, Maliki school and part of, say, the Shadhili Sufi order that blows themselves up in a crowded marketplace. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    Does that all make sense?

    Peace.

  300. @vinteuil

    Serious question, Talha: do you ever comment at extremist websites that support isis, al qaeda, and the like, trying to persuade your fellow muslims that they should adopt your own “moderate” interpretation of Islam?

    There probably are not enough extremists among them to bother with and they probably don’t frequent web sites. Besides, Talha is probably smart enough to avoid trying to convince the rads to change cuz it ain’t gonna happen.

    Has any of us ever been on a rad Izzy site and tried to convince them to go easy on the goyim? Ain’t gonna happen. In fact, the radz come to us and often dirty the place with their name calling, straw men, lies, threats, boasting and what not.

    While I’ve not gone to any rad sites that I know of, I’ve gone ’round and ’round with the goofies, both Izzy and extremist “Christian,” enough to know there’s no hope. In fact, I don’t know that I’ve ever been on a website where anyone who could be called a rad Muzzy has ever responded, and if one has (s)he never sounded nearly as deranged as the extremist Izzys and “Christians.”

    Come to think of it, there are plenty of extremist atheists, mostly burnt out Bolshies, (they seem not to realize that crap is went out of fashion around a century ago), who show up attacking hysterically just like the old time Bolshies and today’s Izzys…Is there a message there?

  301. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Svigor

    On the contrary, Jewry’s as nationalist as they come. They just don’t want anyone else (who they can “pass” for) being nationalist. They don’t do that “move to a country, assimilate, join their nationalism” thing. Just look at Jewish participation rates in the American military.

    Yes, Jews are very loyal to their country of citizenship. You made an unsubstantiated lazy claim re: participation in the military. A quick search [google and Wiki] finds :

    Jewish Americans have served in the United States armed forces dating back to before the colonial era, when Jews had served in militias of the Thirteen Colonies. Jewish military personnel have served in all branches of the armed forces and in every major armed conflict to which the United States has been involved. The Jewish Chaplains Council estimated that there are currently 10,000 known Jewish servicemen and servicewomen on active duty.[1][2]

    …….

    American Jews have also been significant in the development of military science and technology – including physicists Albert Einstein, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Richard Feynman, and Edward Teller, who were important in the Manhattan Project, which led to the development of the first nuclear weapons.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Jewish_Americans#cite_note-jewish-american-society-for-historic-preservation.org-1

    Jews are a high-achieving group, and most Jewish servicemen and women are in the officer corps, 215,000 in number today, which means they are 4.5% of the corps; Jews are 2% of the U.S. population.

    In every country, Jews are deeply loyal to the Sovereign; e.g, in Britain, Bar Mitzvahs, synagogue services and many functions are accompanied by a pledge of fealty to the Queen [the national anthem]

    Your statement, therefore, amounts to a mealy-mouthed accusation based on a lie.

    • Replies: @L.K
    , @Gabriel M
  302. Eagle Eye says:
    @Talha

    Now perhaps you can explain to the ignorant kufar here how you and your four sons live the prime directive of the Qur’an:

    “Fight [the unbelievers] … (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” — Qur’an 9:29

    The Pakistani politician and Islamic scholar Maulana Maududi explained the purpose of this verse as follows:

    The purpose for which Muslims are required to fight is not, as one might think, to compel the unbelievers into embracing Islam. Rather, its purpose is to put an end to the suzerainty of the unbelievers so that the latter are unable to rule over people. The authority to rule should only be vested in those who follow the True Faith; unbelievers who do not follow this True Faith should live in a state of subordination.

    In other words, all infidels must be subjugated and their women raped until they have become a slave class ruled over by Muslims.

    • Replies: @Talha
  303. Talha says:
    @Talha

    Related to this post…

    Due to the specific content that Mr. Unz allows to be published here and with respect to the traffic this site receives; if anyone thinks this site is not being regularly monitored by security assets (possibly from multiple governments) then I have a bridge to sell you…nay, I have two.

    Peace.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @iffen
  304. L.K says:
    @Anon

    Anon,

    You are another bloody LIAR. Svigor is correct about the low jew participation rate in the military. Quite the opposite of their horrendous overrespresentation in finance/banking, media, etc.

    Arnold L. Goldman
    “New York – A recent article in the Wall Street Journal (“Muslim Population in the Military Raises Difficult Issues”, 11/9/09) included a Defense Department circle graph, which depicts the declared religious affiliations of the collective, active duty members of all branches of the United States military. This graph displays a disturbing fact, one which should concern all Jewish Americans: Of a total of 1,359,948 active duty members of the military, just 4,515 are Jewish.
    That’s just 1/3 of one percent of the total
    …”

    This Jew A.Goldman is at least partially honest when he then states:
    ‘There is another reason why we ought to encourage military service among Jewish youth: it is in the best interest of all the world’s Jews to do so. We expect, demand and insist that America stand ready to defend Israel against all threats, even when doing so may be at cross purposes with United States national interest or result in divisive American public opinion. Yet those who must stand ready to be in the forefront of this defense are overwhelmingly not Jewish. It should not be so.’

    ZUSA is really screwed.

    • Replies: @Anon
  305. Talha says:
    @Eagle Eye

    Hey Eagle Eye,

    In other words, all infidels must be subjugated and their women raped until they have become a slave class ruled over by Muslims.

    Number one; you are taking Mawlana Mawdudi’s words and adding in your own – your problem, not ours. Number two; Mawlana Mawdudi (ra) was a scholar of Islam but never reached a high-level as that of his contemporary Mufti Muhammad Shafi (ra) or others – he was more of a thinker or intellectual thus his words do not count as much as you want them to.

    That directive (to not compel conversion, but politically make Islam dominant) has always been in place and will continue to be so in the absence of mutual non-aggression pacts – this is key to understanding.

    Under current international law, all Muslim and non-Muslim nations have pledged to non-aggression. We Muslims are obligated, morally, to follow through with our part of the agreements.

    In the past (before the promulgation of international law), in the age of kingdoms and empires, everyone invaded everyone else – unless there was a treaty or pact in place. Muslims were just often better at it. As far as jizya; can you tell me any other pre-modern military that invaded an area and did not demand political fealty and taxes (which is essentially what jizya is)? I’m not about to apologize for the Rashidun Caliphate rolling up the Sassanid and Byzantine Empires nor the Visigoth kingdoms; look at them roll – magnificent, eh?:

    The current international framework is not perfect but reasonable and should be upheld and promoted. If non-Muslims go back to the age of the British and French Empires, we go back to the age of the Ottomans and Mughals. No harm, no foul.

    Peace.

  306. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @L.K

    Which part of the sentence “they are largely in the officer corps” did you not understand fool?

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=total%20number%20of%20active%20duty%20military

    Jews are a high-achievement group and therefore super-represented in cognitive areas. You sound like just another idiot who does not understand that brain-work comes before any other human endeavor.

  307. @Talha

    …if anyone thinks this site is not being regularly monitored by security assets (possibly from multiple governments…)

    And I wouldn’t be surprised to find that some of the more inflammatory (crackpot) statements posted here and elsewhere are attempts to goad the susceptible into incriminating themselves.

    But I could just be paranoid…!

    • Replies: @Talha
  308. Talha says:
    @jacques sheete

    Tell us where you buried the body JS – nobody will judge or report you.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  309. Clyde says:
    @Talha

    Be careful you 5x daily head bumpers. You are closer to your rug than to Allah. You are praying to a rug for deliverance and good luck.

  310. Alden says:
    @Hibernian

    Because they’re getting desperate to end the outflow.

  311. Alden says:
    @Talha

    Is the Saudi Mosque you refer to that huge 3 story half a block building in Culver City ca?

    First time I saw it I thought wow, it’s a fortress. It probably has all sorts of sub basements and secret rooms. And it’s just a few miles from the airport, so convenient.

    Some of the 9/11 attackers met their contacts in a halal fast food place on Venice Blvd just a few blocks from the mosque.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Talha
  312. @Alden

    Hi Alden, I’d never heard anything about 9/11 and the halal fast food place on Venice Blvd. Do you have any links to that? I’d be interested in seeing them. I am quite familiar with the area though, enough to say that if peckish Tito’ Tacos is much closer (a local institution and very cheap) but I’d probably zip out to Rose Ave in Venice for those yumptious shrimp tacos from La Isla Bonita. No contest. Dios mio, que sabor!

    Anyway, I’m glad that you brought this up, after all, literally MILLIONS of deaths have resulted from the events of that day and TRILLIONS of US taxpayer dollars, borrowed dollars, have been literally burned, squandered or pilfered. It breaks my heart knowing that so many decent, hardworking Americans are going to have to forgo so much in the way of quality of life in future for themselves and their families directly due to decisions that were made in the wake of it.

    I’m not satisfied with the OBL story. He said he didn’t do it and considered it a sinful act. The videos claiming to show him claiming responsibility are blatant fakes, so who would fake such things? The story of his shooting was very fishy and a strange amount of those special ops guys are dead too. I’m not so sure there was all that much muslim involvement there was in 9/11 and that other actors were involved, have you looked into it at all?

    There’s a good article on it here at unz and some good comments with links too. I still think Americans deserve and can afford a new, open and exhaustive investigation. Do you agree?
    Cheers

  313. Gabriel M says:
    @Anon

    That’s “Jewish Lawyering”.

  314. Talha says:
    @Alden

    Hey Alden,

    Correct, that is the one (I lived in Palms) – they call it Masjid Malik (King) Fahad – after the late Saudi King. We always called it Masjid Ibn Taymiyyah in protest. It was a sad story; the community there was trying to build a mosque. They were having a tough time raising funds so the Saudis came in and made them a deal; we’ll build you a grand one, but you have to give us control and name it after the king.

    I remember its director, the late Tajuddin bin Shuayb, recounting this to some of our brothers with his eyes welling up in regret for the choice they made.

    And it’s just a few miles from the airport, so convenient.

    It’s also close to the Saudi embassy. Trust me, there are not going to be plots coming out of that place if Saudi intelligence can help it – they work extremely closely with US intelligence.

    US won’t let anything happen to that place – even from extremist Jews:
    “The final plans, authorities allege, were hatched Tuesday night at an Encino delicatessen when Rubin identified Issa’s office and the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City as targets and the informant unloaded five pounds of explosive powder in Krugel’s garage. Minutes later, dozens of law enforcement officers arrested both men without incident–Krugel at his home and Rubin in his car, not far from his residence in Monrovia.”

    http://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/13/news/mn-14501

    Apparently/allegedly, Irv Rubin and his son killed themselves – this is how Irv did it…hmmmm…:
    “Irv Rubin, Rabbi Kahane’s successor, was reported by officials to have committed suicide in 2002 in a Los Angeles federal detention center after cutting his throat with a jail-issued razor and then jumping or falling over a railing and plummeting to his death.”

    http://www.jewishjournal.com/tomstopics/item/violent_end_for_jdl_leaders_ari_rubins_death_ruled_suicide_201208151

    If you believe that, I have a third bridge…there is a pecking order.

    in a halal fast food place on Venice Blvd just a few blocks from the mosque

    Assuming the joints are still around, I may have eaten there.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  315. “If you believe that, I have a third bridge…there is a pecking order.”

    What is the pecking order?

    • Replies: @Talha
  316. Talha says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Hey OCF,

    Your guess is as good as mine, but it seems Israel and Saudi are in top tier (likely along with Britain).

    Now, if Rubin was acting on behest of Israelis – that’s a no-no – you can’t hit someone in your tier. And he may have been dealt with to tie up any embarrassing details that may have come out in court.

    If Rubin went rogue, well you definitely don’t do that and I figure the Israelis gave a nod to the Saudis and they went ahead and found some Salafi extremists in ‘the joint’ to take care of business.

    This is of course speculation, but maybe I’m completely wrong and people do slash their own throats and jump off heights when contemplating suicide.

    Peace.

  317. iffen says:
    @Bill Jones

    The US should have glassed Israel in 1967.

    Heaven forbid! If they were in a protective glass bubble they would feel impregnable. Who knows what mischief they might conceive if they thought they were invincible.

  318. iffen says:
    @Talha

    if anyone thinks this site is not being regularly monitored by security assets (possibly from multiple governments)

    Come and get me, copper!

  319. Tony says:
    @Talha

    Yeah right, Bet they all sit around the campfire and sing kumbiya. Wake up and smell the coffee, muslims cant live in peace with anybody, even themselves.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @jacques sheete
  320. RobinG says:
    @Talha

    ….there are not going to be plots coming out of that place if Saudi intelligence can help it – they work extremely closely with US intelligence.

    Which proves what, exactly?

    • Replies: @Talha
  321. Talha says:
    @Tony

    Hey Tony,

    You’re riling me up – now I’m going to have to beat the kids, because, well…We’re Muslims and can’t live in peace with anybody, even ourselves. Let their welts be on your conscience.

    Peace.

  322. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    Hey RobinG,

    Which proves what, exactly?

    Nothing other than US intelligence is going to look out for them on US soil and not let one of their big mosques get taken out. Also, that they share intelligence on these things. Cooperation between the two is not a surprise, is it?

    Peace.

  323. RobinG says:

    Looking out for them is not at all the same thing as ensuring no plots are hatched there. It could even be the opposite.

    • Replies: @Talha
  324. @Tony

    Yeah right, Bet they all sit around the campfire and sing kumbiya.

    That’d be the Izzies, right?

    Wake up and smell the coffee, muslims cant live in peace with anybody, even themselves.

    Name one large group that can.

    Have you ever read Josephus’ Wars of the Jews? Hmmmm?

    What do you know of “Christian” history? The Puritans were torturing and murdering fellow “Christians” (Especially Quakers) right here, in N America. not that long ago, and American “Christians” massacred fellow Christians in the Philippines a century ago, and incinerated hundreds of thousands of them with firebombs and nukes in recent history as well.

    • Replies: @Expletive Deleted
  325. Cyrano says:

    Just fairly recently the politically correct Americans renamed the Western Civilization as Judeo-Christian. Judeo-Christian my a**. The only Judeo contribution to western civilization was that the new religion had its roots in the older one.

    I propose a (final?) solution to the problem. Let’s rename the western civilization as HomoIslamoJudeoCristian. Notice how I hierarchically arranged the new all encompassing phrase in descending order relative to their contributions to western civilization, with the most important contributor starting first. That way everybody would feel included and experience the inclusiveness that brings such a joyous feeling and warms the heart.

    • Agree: Ace
  326. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    Hey RobinG,

    I have to say, good point. I can’t argue solidly to say that this is not a possibility.

    By the way, this is really bizarre with the Ft. Lauderdale shooting:
    “Last year, Santiago walked into the FBI’s office in Anchorage, claiming his mind was being controlled by a U.S. intelligence agency and that the CIA was forcing him to watch videos by the Islamic State group (also called ISIS).”

    http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-florida-fort-lauderdale-shooters-motive-still-unclear-look-back-other-islamic-2471541

    Why would someone claim that? I mean they could be crazy, but then why go to FBI. And what did the FBI do?

    Wonder if Sailer will post this one – I’m not holding my breath.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
    , @another fred
  327. iffen says:
    @Talha

    And what did the FBI do?

    They called the local police and got him off their hands.

    What did the FBI do with the guy whose fellow mosque member turned him in as a dangerous radical extremist?

    What did the FBI do with the guy whose father turned him in as a dangerous radical extremist?

    • Replies: @Talha
  328. @Talha

    Why would someone claim that?

    He’s about the right age for schizophrenia and the symptoms are there.

  329. Talha says:
    @iffen

    Hey iffen,

    That’s right, thanks for the reminders – what the hell do we pay these guys for???

    Peace.

    • Replies: @iffen
  330. iffen says:
    @Talha

    what the hell do we pay these guys for???

    Lately we have paid them, along with the AG, the CIA and many of the other alphabets, to interfere in our Presidential election.

  331. chris says:
    @Linh Dinh

    What’s up with all these US secretaries of State finding out they’re Jewish the day they’re sworn into office ? Didn’t Madeleine Albright claim to have had the same experience ?

    Didn’t somebody in Kerry’s family, living in Ireland notice a somewhat distorted map of Ireland in the mirror?

  332. chris says:
    @RobinG

    Brilliant movie, Robin !
    Thanks !
    It really is very well made. It’s just not the stuff we see every day.

  333. Svigor says:

    Jewish Americans have served in the United States armed forces dating back to before the colonial era, when Jews had served in militias of the Thirteen Colonies. Jewish military personnel have served in all branches of the armed forces and in every major armed conflict to which the United States has been involved. The Jewish Chaplains Council estimated that there are currently 10,000 known Jewish servicemen and servicewomen on active duty.[1][2]

    It is true that I based my claim on what I know from a survey of data available to Web searches, several years ago, and that I based my claim not on data from some Jewish organization, but on estimates of how many Jews had died in America’s wars. Long story short: the Jews dried up in the military around Vietnam, and never came back. Basically, they dropped off sharply after the draft ended. One could make the argument that there are plenty of REMF Jews in the military, but I’d something a bit better than you presented to buy in.

    I put a page up about it at my (now long since inactive) site:

    http://svyatoslav.50megs.com/JEWS&LOYALTY.HTML

    If Jewish scientists are participating in America’s armed forces simply by working on science or tech that winds up being used by the military, then we might as well say American participation in our armed forces is at 100%. We all pay taxes, after all.

    Jews are a high-achieving group, and most Jewish servicemen and women are in the officer corps, 215,000 in number today, which means they are 4.5% of the corps; Jews are 2% of the U.S. population.

    Yeah, there were tons of REMF Jews in the German army during the Weimar period. It’s typical ethnocentric Jewish tendentiousness to give numbers about the “officer corps,” when the issue is the armed forces in general.

    In every country, Jews are deeply loyal to the Sovereign

    Except when they’re fomenting revolution, you mean? Seriously though, Jews seem more loyal to Israel, than to America. More loyal to kings, than to the nation, or people. Calling that assimilating to the natives’ patriotism is silly.

  334. Svigor says:

    You have touched on a point, though; British Jews do seem more loyal to Britain, than American Jews do toward the USA.

  335. Svigor says:

    Svigor says:
    January 3, 2017 at 8:07 pm GMT • 300 Word

    Funny, he almost always replies. Usually just to say something stupid, or a lie, but he really likes getting the last word, and usually makes several attempts to get it.

    But, crickets now.

  336. Ace says:
    @n230099

    Spare me the violins and the sad, sad song of humans being conquered by other humans. I always want to cry over the injustice of it. It’s just so wrong!

    • Replies: @n230099
  337. Ace says:
    @mcohen

    Whether some part of the earth’s surface is anyone’s “spiritual land” is of no importance. Who cares?

    Someone can have a deep and sincere longing for the mountains/rills/vales/fens/ditches/lakes/marshes/streets/beaches/cedars/kebab joints of someplace but that too is of no importance whatsoever. No one cares.

    If X gets kicked out of Y that’s it for X’s territorial claims until X saddles up and retakes it by hijrah, purchase, or war.

    Jews were kicked out of Israel 2000 years ago. They infiltrated, murdered and fought to take it over again and now they’re masters of what they can hold militarily (with billions each year from the US, of course). Just like every other nation on earth. Jewish methods were everybody else’s methods.

    That control amounts to sovereignty and it means they can do what they want with any and all land they control, including building a zillion settlements. What’s with this “illegal settlements” nonsense?

    Israelis can also make non-Jews second-class citizens at their sole discretion, an alternative that’s particularly sweet given the Muslim love of dhimmitude.

    The Arabs tried to take it all back at various times and drive the Jews into the sea. They failed. It’s pathetic how they P&M about wanting to get back land they lost instead. Boo frigging hoo. Particularly because it’s land that they took from non-Muslims by conquest.

    I don’t see what’s difficult about this.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  338. @Clyde

    The Jews “expelled” is afrequent ‘talking point’, but somewhat of an exaggeration. According to israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics in the years 1949 to about 1952-3 only a few hundred thousand jews actually emigrated to israel and many of them left of their own volition and were economically incentivized by the zionists, often provided free housing in homes and villages formerly owned and populated by the expelled Palestinians. There are also reports of zionist false flag bombings intended to frighten Arab Jews into making aliya (How Zionist Jews Used False Flag Terrorism To Kill Iraqi Jews & To Get Them To Emigrate To Israel – Naeim Giladi, an Israeli agent operating in Iraq in the late 1940’s.).

    Emigration from Arab/Muslim countries continued at a relatively calm stable pace all the way up until 1964. So there wasn’t the catastrophic expulsion emergency israel’s internet shills describe. Moreover, whatever expulsions did occur happened only AFTER multiple massacres of Palestinians had occurred and over 500 of their villages were “wiped off the map” and fully half the native population of Arabs had been driven out by the European Jew invaders of Palestine in 1947-48…over 750,000 people. The size of the population of San Francisco.

  339. n230099 says:
    @Ace

    “Spare me”

    Really only you can ‘spare’ yourself. Reading what others say, getting all puckerbutted about it and then begging them to ‘spare you’ is no way to go through life son.

    • Replies: @Ace
  340. @Ace

    It’s funny how might makes right, dealing with minorities as second-class citizens or expelling them completely, territorial expansion, real politik, threatening the world and extreme tribalism are okay for very many Jews, as long as it is Jews acting on others.

    I read an article when I was in high school about attempts by Israeli scientists to find biological agents that will only affect Arabs, and I’ve heard speculation of genetic warfare on the part of Israelis many times since. Even if every Jewish claim about the Holocaust is true, that sort of aggressive, biological warfare would be worse.

    I get the impression that such behavior is typical Jewish aggression, and that the holocaust is just a convenient excuse to act.

    Don’t complain the next time the tables are turned, Ace.

    • Replies: @Ace
  341. Don’t complain the next time the tables are turned, Ace.

    The whining will happen. Count on it. Hopefully the goyim won’t be such suckers and their “leaders” won’t be such sell-outs next time.

    Hey, I can hope, can’t I? ;)

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  342. @jacques sheete

    You can bet your tuchus that Ace will not consider today’s attack on IDF soldiers an example of a Palestinian “saddling up” against the Israelis.

    • Replies: @Ace
  343. @Clyde

    the green nations of the world where there is abundant rainfall. Where there is lots of greenery and vegetation.

    Well there is that. But I can’t for the life of me see any desert nomad or steppe herder being overjoyed at the prospect of a lifetime in Argyll, or Donegal. Pretty rough on the poor horses too.
    There are some Syrian “refugees” in the Isle of Bute, they’re already whining to leave, they’ve have had enough after barely six months or a year. Some are turning to the bottle, bigly, and beating their wives, just like the local kuffar. Really making an effort to fit in, but … the rain. The abundant endless rain, and wind, and cold, and gloom. And the vastly increased peril of drowning, simply moving from one place to another.

  344. Ace says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Realpolitik is the only kind of politik that there is. It is practiced by all people. What they choose to do inside the borders of any lands they conquer they will do, limited only by their own consciences and and laws and what outside powers choose to do to stop them.

    Treating minorities inside one’s borders should be premised on ethical principle, of course. There is a particular aptness to treating Muslims you haven’t thrown out of your nation as second class citizens because treating non-Muslims as second class citizens and slaves is baked in their particular cake. So that is ethical as it embodies simple fairness. What you would do unto me, I do unto you.

    However, there’s every reason to deal fairly with other minorities who show a genuine willingness to abide by the laws of the rulers.

    I am all for “extreme” tribalism, such as exhibited by the Japanese and Chinese, for instance. There is no reason to import an unassimilable minority. Nor is there a requirement for majorities in particular nations to allow minorities to displace them but in most Western nations you risk prosecution and/or loss of your livelihood if you argue that point. Those nations are in fact fully committed to the inundation of their majority white populations and, almost certainly, their destruction or enslavement.

    What is characteristic Jewish behavior and thinking is not my focus here, any more than Singaporean or Zimbab behavior is.

    Turning the tables on anyone involves warfare whether by political or military means. If I end up complaining about mistreatment by any new overlords, it will be because I first waged what war I could to prevent it. Most Westerners seem to think that having the tables turned on them is obligatory on them, to be accepted meekly.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  345. Ace says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    It’s minority warfare against the majority. Is this hard?

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
  346. Ace says:
    @annamaria

    A most insightful comment.

    I disagree only in that the inflow of Muslims and low IQ sub-Saharan Africans to Europe is not the result of US/NATO interventions in the M.E. Rather, the inflow is the result of treason on the part of European leaders who deliberately chose not to defend Europe and repel an inflow caused by whatever circumstances.

    The land border of Greece and Bulgaria with Turkey is a mere 175 miles and easily defended by the more than 3.5M active and reserve troops of Europe. The sea approaches are easily defended using simple methods demonstrated by Australia. Instead the Italian “navy” acts as a taxi service.

    The inundation of Europe is by deliberate choice not by remote events, be they war, privation, or political upheaval.

    • Replies: @Alden
  347. @Mao Cheng Ji

    US actions need to be analyzed as actions of a global empire. Israel is not important to the US (the nation) at all, but it is very important to the global empire ruled from Washington, DC. And that’s the most productive way to analyze American foreign policy…

    this is an excellent point.

  348. Ace says:
    @n230099

    I’ve learned my lesson. I’ll be good. I promise.

  349. Art says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    Anyway, the point I was making (and I thought it was clear) is that the US actions need to be analyzed as actions of a global empire. Israel is not important to the US (the nation) at all, but it is very important to the global empire ruled from Washington, DC. And that’s the most productive way to analyze American foreign policy…

    The money that feeds this global empire comes from Jews – period – end of story.

    The Rothschild central banking cartels are doing their same old deeds, just like in past centuries, praying on all sides – only on a global scale with many more billions of people under their thumb.

    Peace — Art

  350. @Ace

    So it’s not an example of Palestinians “saddling up” to take back what was taken from them?

  351. @Ace

    Just don’t expect refuge when it blows up in your face. America has enough Israel-backing traitors already. We don’t need any Israelis. Maybe the Albanians will let you open a Dead Sea kiosk somewhere in their country.

  352. Talha says:
    @Anon-og

    Hey Mike,

    Finally got to read through this. I actually thought this was a great analysis, especially the analogy with Israel and the Crusader Kingdoms.

    I agree that, in the long term, it does not seem sustainable – there is a reason why Bani Ishmael and their confederates have had staying power over the last 14 centuries. Both the reality of the Crusaders and Israel have been more a reflection on the disunity and poor state of the Muslims than anything else; could Israel have even been imagined when the Ottomans fielded multiple armies (often manned by their very-capable Bosnians and Albanians) in the Levant? I personally do not see (or hope for) a full scale military assault on Israel from the Muslim countries. Because there is too much at stake and I personally do not like modern warfare as it is far too destructive*.

    I do think the very first step though is in a greater unified Muslim world. A serious military/economic cooperative from Morocco to Malaysia (almost in the vein of the 50 United States) would be a fourth/fifth major contender on the world scene. If the enterprise is relatively successful, the Israelis might even voluntarily want in without a shot fired and think about orienting their compass Eastward. It may be that they would again be able to travel and live in their various old stomping grounds in the Muslim world before all this madness took off.

    Peace.

    *Note: As a contrast, note how limited the warfare was as described by the traveler Ibn Jubayr during the time of the Crusades:
    “One of the astonishing things that is talked of is that though the fires of discord burn between the two parties, Muslim and Christian, two armies of them may meet and dispose themselves in battle array, and yet Muslim and Christian travellers will come and go between them without interference….This Sultan invested it, and put it to sore straits, and long the siege lasted, but still the caravans passed successively from Egypt to Damascus, going through the lands of the Franks without impediment from them. In the same way the Muslims continuously journeyed from Damascus to Acre (through Frankish territory), and likewise not one of the Christian merchants was stopped or hindered (in Muslim territories). The Christians impose a tax on the Muslims in their land which gives them full security; and likewise the Christian merchants pay a tax upon their goods in Muslim lands. Agreement exists between them, and there is equal treatment in all cases. The soldiers engage themselves in their war, while the people are at peace and the world goes to him who conquers.”

    http://www.arts.cornell.edu/prh3/259/texts/jubayr.htm

  353. @Talha

    The nigh after 9/11, two men that had never attended our gatherings showed up, decked out in ultra-Muslim garb, head to toe and began an argument with us about how 9/11 was justified and they wanted us to prove that it was not (from Qur’an and hadith).

    I just noticed this and looked through the thread. Surely you understand that these people were Deep State agents, no? They were sussing out whether any of you would serve as patsies or whether they could do some sort of Sting operation, the sort of the thing the FBI specializes in.

    They show up, say a bunch of crazy shit and see if any of you rise to the bait. This is what you have in the patsy milieus in the notorious “Jihadist” mosques in London, for example.

    I assume you understand this, no? But most of the complete morons you are talking to in this thread don’t get it, right? So why don’t you tell them? Or maybe you don’t get it? But that’s impossible… I don’t quite understand what is going on in this thread.

    • Replies: @Talha
  354. @vinteuil

    I would be really interested in reading an exchange of views between you and one of these extremists.

    Hey, Mr. Stefan Burton, shit eater idiot. If you weren’t such a complete fool, you would know that any of these “extremists” you’d find that way are Deep State agents and that they’re working for the show.

    Oh, never mind. You’re such an ignorant fool that you don’t even understand what I’m talking about. Maybe Uncle Talha can explain.

    Well, I assume he could explain it to you (slowly and patiently so that even you would finally understand) but he probably won’t. Explaining such things to fools like you doesn’t seem to be part of the Uncle Talha schtick.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
  355. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    Fo’ sho’ – they were definitely sent to try to get us to be on the record as saying something really stupid or radical.

    Kind of sloppy work though, I mean, just show up right after the event? They should have spent at least a month or so trying to lay the ground work or something.

    For our community you have to be careful of two things:
    1) The whole FBI setup.
    2) Getting on the Saudi’s radar (one of the reasons we are a bit muted publicly about the House of Saud); they control the traffic for the Hajj – you screw up and they will destroy any chance you or your family have of making the pilgrimage.

    I figured the people on the thread were intelligent enough to figure that detail out.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    , @ANon
  356. Alden says:
    @Lot

    Only idiots and evangelicals believe the collection of myths and fables collected in the bible, especially the Old Testament/Torah

  357. @Talha

    I figured the people on the thread were intelligent enough to figure that detail out.

    I’m puzzled as to how you arrived at that conclusion. You interact with these people far more than I do. I think I have a pretty good handle on just how stupid somebody like vinteuil, i.e. Stefan Burton, is.

    I wrote an article entitled “The Show Must Go On”, the one before my current one, to try to explain some of what is going on. But it went right over their heads.

    In any case, it is pretty much impossible to underestimate the intelligence of some of these people you are interacting with, like this Stefan Burton, a.k.a. vinteuil. Any time you assume that they understand something basic like this, you will be wrong. I can pretty much guarantee you that.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    , @Talha
  358. Alden says:
    @Ace

    Even the Irish navy is roaming the med ferrying Afros and Arabs to Europe.
    The most popular names for new borns in Ireland today are Mohammed for boys and Freya for girls. Freya is not just a Norse name but an Arab girls name

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Ace
  359. Avery says:
    @Alden

    {The most popular names for new borns in Ireland today are Mohammed for boys and Freya for girls. }

    Where did you get that?
    Muslims are about 1.5% of Ireland. (~65K of ~4.5 million).
    How is it possible for 1.5% of the population to produce the most babies?
    Makes no sense.

    And according to Irish official source, Mohammad is not the most popular.

    https://www.joe.ie/life-style/10-popular-names-irish-girls-boys-born-2016/572938

  360. Ace says:
    @Alden

    It is to weep. A friend emailed me and asked who I thought the winner of the Miss Helsinki contest was.

    This is a deep, deep sickness.

  361. @Jonathan Revusky

    “I wrote an article entitled “The Show Must Go On”, the one before my current one, to try to explain some of what is going on. But it went right over their heads.”

    I didn’t read your article, so I don’t know your point. But it’s odd when 5 or more articles about Jews and Israel appear on this site at once. And it’s no secret that the government uses trolls and spies online, and probably has writers and bloggers on the payroll. Where is the mystery? Give them what they want and more!

  362. Avery says:
    @L.K

    Keep lying Schweinhund.
    I debunked your ‘Armenian doctor’ lie sourced from Islamofascist Hurriyet a while back.
    Really pathetic.
    Typical of the progeny of stupid Brown Shirts.

    And the jackbooted Schweinhunden that were chopped to chunks of porkchops outside Stalingrad. No need for me to re-post the link to the picture of Schweinhunden fertilizing the rich Russian soil – that you like so much.

    Heil Hitler!
    Sieg Heil!

  363. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    On a related note; what’s your take on the Ft. Lauderdale shooting? Predictably, Mr. Sailer didn’t post it on his section. Unstable Muslim mass shooters are cause for alarm, unstable Latino Iraq War veterans – not so much. I mean, how many of those can there possibly be, right?

    Anyway, few things that stand out:
    1. This guy practically turned himself into the FBI a while back
    2. He is still alive to witness on the stand (up to this point, wonder if he will maybe slash his own throat and jump off a few stories like that Irv Rubin guy – nobody dies in custody, right?)
    3. Claims gov’t was radicalizing him with Daesh propaganda; either it’s true or he is crazy

    What I find interesting is the possibility that this was potentially a setup where they wanted this guy to become one of those guys that became a converted jihadist and wanted to go to Syria to go fight – but they would interdict him in time to show what great heroes they are. But the whole thing went off track.

    Anyway, wanted to get your take – or maybe you’re waiting for what comes out in the trial. Which can be sealed off quite tightly if the government starts claiming ‘national security’ privileges.

    Peace.

    Bonus: My daughter showed me a feature on her new iPhone that she thought was great! Yes, now you can bypass all of your pesky security stuff by simply registering your thumb print. It is amazing, but this next generation doesn’t even think twice about what nefarious use that info could be put to or who has access to it.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  364. ANon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Getting on the Saudi’s radar (one of the reasons we are a bit muted publicly about the House of Saud); they control the traffic for the Hajj – you screw up and they will destroy any chance you or your family have of making the pilgrimage.

    I figured the people on the thread were intelligent enough to figure that detail out.

    No, this is one of those things that’s just not on the radar of us non-Muslims here. Wow, though.

    I have family in Ceylon and knew the Saudis were spending quite a lot selling their own brand of Islam there; had no idea they were holding pilgrimage denial over people’s heads. That’s more or less why we launched the Crusades all those years ago; pretty serious stuff.

  365. @Talha

    On a related note; what’s your take on the Ft. Lauderdale shooting?

    Well, I haven’t looked into that specifically. I assume it’s just more Deep State theater. Well, it must be. Once you see that something happens in an airport, it’s obvious. Would some real independent terrorist (assuming there is such a thing even) go do something in an airport? Just think about it.

    That said, why even ask me? Why not just study the question yourself and state your conclusions? Why rely on me to tell you? I don’t actually have any access to any special information that is not available to you.

    And I can’t study all these things, frankly. There’s just too much of it and any given thing I look into, it always turns out to be some sort of hoax or false flag. Really glaringly even.

    Here’s one I’ve been asking people about. The alleged mass sexual assaults that occurred in Cologne railway station just about a year ago, New Year’s eve of 2015/2016. I scoured the internet looking for video or photographic evidence of this. I thought: how can something of this scale (supposedly hundreds of sexual assaults) occur and there be no video or photos?

    Then something occurred to me also. Look at this. https://www.google.es/search?q=k%C3%B6ln+hauptbahnhof&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj16J2JnrvRAhWCxRQKHRNFCxwQ_AUICSgC&biw=1024&bih=480

    Where did all this raping happen? On the train platforms? In the square outside? In the part where you buy the tickets? It’s a completely open space really. How could all this happen and for there to be no video or photographic evidence? In 2016, when everybody has a video camera in their pocket. So what do you make of that?

    Predictably, Mr. Sailer didn’t post it on his section.

    Well, the position of somebody like that is just to accept all of these things as real. Believe it, or pretend to believe it… I honestly don’t know. The passport or ID is found on the crime scene for the 57th time, say. They don’t find that there is anything odd about that… go figure… That’s what Muslims do, I guess. It must be somewhere in the Koran…

    Anyway, wanted to get your take

    Oh, I just take as a given that the whole thing is phony like everything else. But you really shouldn’t need me to tell you that.

    • Replies: @Talha
  366. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    To be completely honest, I thought you basically analyzed these things on a case by case basis as they occurred, but I can see your point about there being just too many of them.

    And thanks for your insights on that Cologne thing – I was suspicious of it at first but there were so many media reports floating around so I didn’t think much of my suspicions, but reading your posts about it with specific links and pointed questions definitely makes me question the narrative.

    Also, good interview with Mr. Barret.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  367. @Talha

    but I can see your point about there being just too many of them.

    Well, I’m not really a researcher per se. Besides, it gets too repetitious. Look, there are some obvious rules of thumb. Just off the top of my head:

    If something occurred on an airplane or in an airport, it’s a staged hoax or false flag of some sort. If they say somebody sat in front of his computer and looked at some websites, and self-radicalized, it’s nonsense. If they were running a drill of roughly the same event going on very close in time and place to where the thing happened, like with Boston Bombing or Sandy Hook, the thing is some sort of staged event as well. If the alleged perps leave their ID at the scene of the crime and then are shot dead so that there is no trial, then ditto….

    I’m sure that’s not an exhaustive list, but the above things are dead giveaways.

    but reading your posts about it with specific links and pointed questions definitely makes me question the narrative.

    So what is your plan now, Uncle Talha? When people repeat these things, are you going to challenge them on it? IOW, are you going to stop being such an “Uncle Talha” maybe?

    Also, good interview with Mr. Barret.

    Thank you. We discussed a range of things in the course of an hour. What part did you like in particular?

    • Replies: @Talha
  368. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    I like your rules of thumb – good starting points.

    When people repeat these things, are you going to challenge them on it?

    Possibly. I have no problem challenging people (with civility) – if you review my archives, I’m constantly asking people to back up nonsense claims about Islam or Muslim history. I do that because I’m pretty well-grounded in my tradition and history which has taken (and continues to take) up considerable time. For me to challenge people constantly on this terrorism stuff, I’d have to do a whole different set of research that I simply don’t have time for. I rely on people like you and Mr. Barrett for that. But you have given me some good baseline questions to pose.

    If that means I remain Uncle Talha, no problem – that sounds less threatening anyways.

    What part did you like in particular?

    Few things:
    1) First time I actually heard Mr. Barrett – so that was good.
    2) Didn’t know he was Muslim – pretty cool!
    3) I liked your insights on Dawkins book – I was thinking about reading or skimming through it, but it seems like a waste of time based on the arguments that you mentioned were in it. You know, I had to take logic (like Greek logic) as part of Computer Science at UCLA – I cannot understand how someone so intelligent can make such absurd arguments. Well, I guess I can – sell more books, make more money.
    4) Liked what you guys mentioned about how could any French policeman enforcing the Burkini ban take themselves seriously.
    5) Also liked how the demarcation between the behavior of actually observant Muslims and their more simply ‘ethnic-Muslim’ brothers was made.

    One note though, you mentioned that a lot of religious people seem to think supernatural or miraculous events were confined to a specific period in time but do not occur in the modern world. I don’t believe that is the case. From what I know for sure about the Muslim faith (and what I’ve gleaned from writings on other faiths), people believe miracles can and do and will continue to happen. The only thing in question is the veracity of the source.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  369. @Talha

    For me to challenge people constantly on this terrorism stuff, I’d have to do a whole different set of research that I simply don’t have time for.

    I don’t think that’s true at all, frankly. It seems like a cop-out. The fact is that these people are making accusations, accusing people of crimes. It does not require any particular research for you (or anybody) to insist that they outline for you what the strongest evidence for these accusations are. For example, to simply ask any of these people what the strongest evidence is that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated by a Muslim (named Osama Bin Laden) from Afghanistan — this is devastating generally, because they will just dance around and refuse to answer the question.

    In practice, they will just admit that they have no proof of the story, and that they are simply repeating something with no proof.

    As for the mass rapes in Cologne, to simply point to what the Cologne rail station looks like and ask these people where all the raping took place…

    https://www.google.es/search?q=k%C3%B6ln+hauptbahnhof&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjyrsuHlL_RAhWFtBQKHXEDAXcQ_AUICSgC&biw=1024&bih=480

    Again, this takes no particular research. The issue, as far as I can see, is that you don’t want to confront these people. In your deluded mind, the fact that these people like you (or seem to) is a sign that you are doing something right.

    For example, you have surely noted that all of these Zionist shills absolutely hate my guts. Yet they seem to like you. “Oh, that Talha, he’s a goooood Muzzie…” Well, my view is that the fact that they hate me so much and like you is a strong indication of who is relatively effective in countering their bullshit.

    In any case, you talk as if confronting false accusers is something optional. I’m not sure it is. The problem is that unchallenged statements eventually end up being accepted as the truth. Lenin famously said something to that effect, that a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. What I realize though is that religious writings have said the same thing many centuries before. Simply going along with false accusations is very problematic morally. The false rape accusations all the more so, since that’s how lynch mobs are formed and so forth.

    If you, a Muslim, don’t even challenge all these false narratives, then people can reason that they must be true. Even that jerk Fred Reed writes the occasional piece defending Mexicans from the typical racist stuff. And he’s not even Mexican, though he lives in Mexico and married a Mexican woman.

    If that means I remain Uncle Talha, no problem – that sounds less threatening anyways.

    Well, your idea seems to be that it is of such great importance to be mild and inoffensive to these people, some of whom are, as far as I can see, hard-core professional liars. I have no idea where you got the idea that being nice to such people is something so virtuous.

    As for the Kevin Barrett thing, that was the second interview. The first one was in May and is probably of more general interest to people: http://noliesradio.org/archives/114290

    • Replies: @Talha
  370. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    It seems like a cop-out.

    Possibly, but try juggling raising a family of four and keep a web development team running and keep up with traditional Islamic studies – I don’t watch TV much (an occasional episode of ‘House MD’ with the wife is about it). But it is a good point to insist on evidence. I do that a lot when people try to speak for Islam – usually there is no response when I ask them to bring evidence from the mouths or pens of our scholars.

    Zionist shills

    In my decades of experience, I have seen Zionists run a spectrum, from downright evil racist bastards to normal people who are misinformed. I have seen some people support Israel very reluctantly, and solely because they hear very sanguinary statements from certain Muslim sectors (which are real, I have heard sermons from the Middle East that make my stomach turn). They do not want a bloodbath on their people – I do not also want a bloodbath on their people. Also, my perspective on Israel comes from a very different place than the European experience. I think it is a massive miscalculation (a specifically European colonial enterprise) and does not serve the interests of Jewish people (including the ones that were once widely dispersed in and an important part of the Muslim world) in the wider picture. Did you know Baghdad was nearly 1/3 Jewish not too long ago?

    http://cs.nyu.edu/shasha/papers/iraqlastjews.html

    One can win a battle and lose the war. I treat people according to their place on the spectrum. Usually, the respect they give Islam is a dead give away. The people who regurgitate lies and talking points from Spencer and Geller; I have their number.

    Yet they seem to like you.

    If you think they like ‘me’ – or even they think they like ‘me’ – then you are both wrong. My teachers have mentioned that it is the prophetic example of conduct, the Sunnah, that people innately find attractive; whether the person who acts upon it is a Muslim or not.
    “Thus it is due to mercy from God that you deal with them gently, and had you been rough and hard-hearted, they would certainly have dispersed from around you; pardon them therefore and ask pardon for them, and take counsel with them in the affair; so when you have decided, then place your trust in God; surely God loves those who trust.” (3:159)

    “Not equal are the good deed and the evil deed. Repel with that which is fairer and behold, he – between whom and you there is enmity – shall be as if he were a loyal friend.” (41:34)

    One can challenge people – and firmly – without being unnecessarily offensive. Whether they like me personally or not is irrelevant, whether I conduct myself correctly is what I will be asked about.

    The problem is that unchallenged statements eventually end up being accepted as the truth.

    I agree with you there, I have often reluctantly entered the fray due to this same fear.

    I have no idea where you got the idea that being nice to such people is something so virtuous.

    We have our marching orders, even when in positions of unchallenged strength:

    http://insideislam.wisc.edu/2012/04/important-events-the-conquest-of-mecca/

    There is no way I am willing to answer for being a barrier for someone (anyone) looking into Islam due to poor conduct or character on my part.

    Our differences in approach don’t stem from politics, but rather metaphysics.

    Thanks for the link, I’ll try to check it out.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  371. @Talha

    Possibly, but try juggling raising a family of four and

    Yeah, blah blah. You see, this is why I do not precisely have a high regard for you. You are simply less than honest. For example, your above claim that you don’t challenge these people regarding all the lies about Muslims because you are so busy. Well, consider:

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=Talha

    At this point in time, you have written 1,941 comments on this site, totaling 340,600 words. The vast majority of that was in calendar year 2016, in which you wrote 1,769 comments. So, on a typical day in 2016, you wrote just short of 5 comments (4.83 per day), totalling nearly 1000 words.

    The claim that you did not ever challenge any of these people regarding all of the calumnies and slanders against Muslims because you lack the time — that is simply belied by these facts. Demonstrably, you obviously do have the time.

    Now, okay, it’s a typical white lie, where you say you don’t do something because you lack the time. It’s no big deal, and maybe you’re not trying to con me, but rather, are trying to con yourself.

    One can challenge people – and firmly – without being unnecessarily offensive. Whether they like me personally or not is irrelevant, whether I conduct myself correctly is what I will be asked about.

    Well, we went over this matter of what supposedly happened in Cologne. I demand proof of the accusations (and there never is any.) Your position apparently, as stated by you, was that you simply accepted the accusations BECAUSE EVERYBODY SEEMED TO BE REPEATING THEM.

    Between my standard of behavior and yours, which standard is higher? I think the answer is obvious. You preen yourself somehow that you were not “unnecessarily offensive”. However, you completely failed to stand up for the truth or to stand up for your people.

    I can kind of understand why you would behave the way you do, the psychology behind it. However, I don’t have a high opinion of it. I don’t find your spiritual pretenses very convincing. There is such a thing as “righteous anger”. We are in a situation where they constantly stage these fake events and frame Muslims for them. Yet you somehow never express real honest righteous anger about it. And your stance seems to be that you want to rely on somebody like me to stand up to this, yet you are then going to say: “look what a sweet, nice little cuddly Muzzie I am”. Well, frankly, to me, the whole thing is bullshit.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Alexander
  372. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    you did not ever challenge any of these people regarding all of the calumnies and slanders against Muslims because you lack the time

    Someone would have to pay me too challenge all of the nonsense that’s out there. For the time being, I am challenging the stuff I am interested in challenging. Adding more onto it would necessitate more time which I do not wish to divert. I am less interested in challenging the day to day political situation of Muslims than challenging the nonsense hurled at the foundations of my faith; the root as opposed to the branches. For instance, I haven’t seen you challenge people when they spout lies to besmirch the character of the Prophet (pbuh) or make up stuff about what Islamic law states – does that mean you agree with them? Or does it simply mean you are not interested in challenging that particular charge? Perhaps you simply do not care to do the research on that topic because it doesn’t interest you or because people like myself have it covered? So, should I consider you an enemy or a sellout?

    Demonstrably, you obviously do have the time.

    My wife would likely disagree and my regular exercise routine has suffered as a result – so you are right, I have to ease back. Something like max two posts a day or something.

    However, you completely failed to stand up for the truth or to stand up for your people.

    Sometimes the truth is against my people and sometimes for them.

    There is such a thing as “righteous anger”.

    Yup – but it doesn’t need to be expressed using expletives in my book.

    “look what a sweet, nice little cuddly Muzzie I am”

    Have you actually looked at the positions I have defended in the Shariah? Nothing cuddly about me.

    Well, frankly, to me, the whole thing is bullshit.

    Fortunately, I’m also not seeking acceptance from you. :)

    Or, as famously stated…

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  373. Alexander says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    JR,

    I think you would find that the vast majority of people in our country are honest if not all the time, 99% of the time.So there is an underlying assumption that when there is an incident of rape,or multiple rapes, as in the case of Cologne, that people who are stating it happened , would never make it up.

    Consider for a moment whether you would ever “falsely” accuse someone of committing rape.
    If you can imagine yourself doing it , you would also have to imagine yourself being a different person than you are. Right ?

    It is the same with “most” people, and it is for this reason, there is a credibility projection on incidents such as these merely on the “say so”, that it occurred..

    If I know I would never lie about something like that, and you know YOU would never lie about something like that….then the most natural assumption is that the rape victims would never lie about it either.

    Yet once you have seen evidence of such deceptions, and recognize it as a pattern of behavior in order to “manipulate” people to hate, or fear, or fight war, or whatever, then you are correct in viewing these incidents with skepticism, and scratching the surface for the tell tale signs of fraud.

    Nobody really likes fraud, JR, and nobody likes to be handed a lot of phony baloney…..I think what we are seeing today is the vast majority of Americans are convinced they have been deceived either by the powers -that-be or the big media…at least once.

    And there is an understanding we are being manipulated, and people don’t like it, they do not like it at all.

    Why should they ?

    Not only is it evil in itself, it inevitably obscures it when real tragedies, real rapes and real crimes occur.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
    , @Miro23
  374. Steve says:

    This article is wrong and stupid, for various reasons. Israel is far from perfect, but a lot of the anti-Israel narrative is very selective and (in fact) anti-Semitic (or anti-Jewish). Israel has a far better claim to existence and sovereignty over the land than many assume or care to research, and the ‘Palestinians’ (a very confused and misleading term) a far weaker one than generally portrayed. Wishing for its end is basically wishing for another sort of holocaust/judeocide, or at the very least brutal re-dispersal of the Israeli Jews, because that is what would likely happen were it to be really defeated (militarily or politically). The Islamist and other fanatic Muslims/Arabs do indeed have wholly or partly exterminationist and supremacist rhetoric and beliefs, and would be tremendously empowered and emboldened by a victory over Israel, and have far wider claims, including at least all of Europe formerly under Islamic sway, if not the entire world over the longer term. And South Africa is a terrible example, for all its undoubted problems, the foolish wholesale surrender from a position of strength to the Communist ANC with no guarantees has led to the substantial ruin of the whites, especially the rural Afrikaners, with likely far worse to come yet, and no improvement in the lot of most blacks either. And while Israel has been far from an ideal ally, the idea that the Arabs would be any better or even allies at all is a pipe-dream. The West is far better (and historically obligated) letting the Jews have their state than pandering vainly to the Muslims who despise and seek the conquest of the West and always have. But maybe a Vietnamese even in Germany doesn’t really get that.

  375. @Talha

    Someone would have to pay me too challenge all of the nonsense that’s out there.

    You continually reinforce my view that you are not a very honest person, always trucking in straw man arguments. Who said anything about challenging ALL of the nonsense that’s out there?

    For instance, I haven’t seen you challenge people when they spout lies to besmirch the character of the Prophet (pbuh) or make up stuff about what Islamic law states – does that mean you agree with them?

    Well, it’s true that I don’t care very much about that, since I’m not a Muslim myself. In general, though, I would venture to say that most people, whether Muslims or whatever they are, are far more oriented really towards what is going on NOW than what was going on in the 7th century or the middle ages. Whether Muslims are really responsible for the events of 9/11/2001 or all of these ridiculously transparent false flags and hoaxes in Europe is a much more important question practically than things that happened (or not) many centuries ago.

    Moreover, it is fairly easy to demonstrate that the official version of what happened on 9/11 is false. It is very difficult to demonstrate anything one way or the other about the character of the Prophet. I understand that religious people are emotionally committed to a religious tradition and the narrative that goes along with it. You apparently really did listen to that conversation I had with Kevin Barrett. I understand these things and I sympathize. However, as a practical question, it is far far more important to oppose false narratives regarding what is happening NOW (or has happened recently) than false narratives regarding events that transpired in the 7th century! Your fellow Muslim Kevin Barrett clearly understands that. Why don’t you?

    Well, to be honest, my sense is that you do understand that, but are being willfully obtuse. Or, if you cannot see this, maybe taking some distance from the question would make it more clear. Let’s make the thought experiment that Buddhists were falsely accused of doing 9/11. Also, some people are besmirching the character of Siddhartha Gautama, a.k.a. the Buddha, who lived 2500 years ago. I put it to you that it is obvious that it would be of far greater practical importance to defend Buddhists from false statements regarding their responsibility for 9/11 than false accusations regarding the character of the Buddha!

    In any case, the whole thing is silly in final analysis. People who are not even Muslims don’t care about the character of Muhammad any more than non-Buddhists care about the character of the Buddha. To the extent that they engage in this kind of thing, it would just be to push your buttons. To respond to this kind of thing and let the real issues regarding the false accusations in the here and now slide — this just plays into their hands, which is why you are popular among these people, while they hate somebody like me.

    As long as you are not challenging their narrative on anything of any practical current-day importance (i.e. 9/11 and the rest of the false flag terrorist events for which Muslims are typically framed) then you’re their lad basically!

    Sometimes the truth is against my people and sometimes for them.

    Well, this is a straw man. I never suggested that you defend Muslims in the cases where you think they are in the wrong. However, we have a whole series of staged events at this point in which Muslims are pretty clearly framed. I was obviously suggesting that you defend your people in the cases where they are accused unjustly.

    There is such a thing as “righteous anger”.

    Yup – but it doesn’t need to be expressed using expletives in my book.

    Well, the above is a straw man as well. I never said that you should use expletives. You can express righteous anger without using expletives. What bothers me is that you never seem to show any righteous indignation at all of the campaign of slanders and calumnies that Muslims are subjected to. I seem to be more angry about it than you.

    In fact, your approach seems to be simply to never challenge any of these accusations or even look into them. You seem to think you can opt out of this (which is dubious morally, I think) and then rely on somebody like me, a non-Muslim, to counter the false accusations being made against Muslims.

    Fortunately, I’m also not seeking acceptance from you

    Well, as the Bard said: “The lady doth protest too much.”

    It really does seem to be part of your character to seek approval from others. Now, granted, it’s likely true that you are not seeking it from me at this point because it is finally dawning on you that you will not get it. But, in general, I see a lot of your behavior on these pages seems to reflect a kind of desperate desire for approval. Then you take that terrible character weakness and try to claim that it is some sort of moral virtue!

    Well, sorry, I don’t think it is.

    • Replies: @Talha
  376. @Alexander

    So there is an underlying assumption that when there is an incident of rape,or multiple rapes, as in the case of Cologne, that people who are stating it happened , would never make it up.

    Hi, Alexander. The problem with all of this is that we are at a stage in history where we have to look at these sorts of things very soberly. What we have here, on the face of it, is a narrative that seems custom-made to push certain people’s buttons. Basically, it’s: “Look, these bands of swarthy savages are raping our white women…”

    This is the kind of that just glaringly looks like it could be a sort of synthetic narrative (FRAUD!) designed to affect people psychologically. As far as I can see, the only sensible response to a situation like this is to try to analyze soberly whether this really happened, or if it did, what the true extent of it was and so forth.

    The biggest single case of this sort of thing by far is 9/11. It’s: “Look what those people did and we have to go kick ass and blah blah”. It’s a completely psychological manipulation.

    That somebody like Rurik cannot even fathom why I feel the need to know what the actual evidence is on something like this — that is utterly exasperating.

    Consider for a moment whether you would ever “falsely” accuse someone of committing rape.

    Well, I wouldn’t and you wouldn’t, but there are millions and millions of people out there and some people will say anything for a few bucks.

    • Replies: @alexander
  377. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    However, as a practical question, it is far far more important to oppose false narratives regarding what is happening NOW (or has happened recently) than false narratives regarding events that transpired in the 7th century!

    This is your opinion – I simply disagree. Those throwing up smoke on his character are getting in the way of people seriously taking Islam as an option for themselves. This is not on your radar because you are not a religious person, so consequences are only important as they pertain to events and results of this world. I don’t expect you to have my priorities – and frankly, it would be silly for me to see the world and prioritize as you do. It is far more important for me that a person finds out the truth about Islam as opposed to what happened on 9/11 – for you it is the opposite.

    Your fellow Muslim Kevin Barrett clearly understands that.

    That’s what an Ummah is for – brothers like him are covering that front in a far more effective way than I ever could.

    In any case, the whole thing is silly in final analysis.

    More opinion – there is not anywhere close to near the same level of attack going on the foundations of Buddhism as on Islam. These attacks are well-funded and often connected to Israeli-firsters. The ARRF has us on their radar because we are the last ones standing who take our tradition seriously as a normative alternative to the (Post)Modern model. You know this already – you wrote a lengthy article on it – or didn’t you read it? ;)

    because it is finally dawning on you that you will not get it

    Dear nephew, that was quite clear for me through our very first exchange when you cursed at me like a sailor. But that’s cool – I still appreciate you putting people’s feet to the fire on the false narratives.

    Though I do appreciate the free psycho-analysis session – this is not getting anywhere.

    Peace.

    P.S. Mention me to Brother Kevin when you speak to him next, mention to him that there are a bunch of Muslims (traditional, Orthodox ones) that don’t personally believe in the official 9/11 narrative but don’t personally get involved too much in the efforts of trying to debunk it because of other priorities. I’d like to get his take on it.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  378. @Talha

    This is your opinion – I simply disagree. Those throwing up smoke on his character are getting in the way of people seriously taking Islam as an option for themselves.

    Talha, are you seriously trying to claim that you have written nearly 2000 comments comprising well over 300,000 words on this site because you believe that some people here might convert to Islam as a result? Because if this is the case, your grip on reality is quite tenuous.

    It is far more important for me that a person finds out the truth about Islam as opposed to what happened on 9/11 – for you it is the opposite.

    Talha, the 9/11 official narrative (along with the rest of the false flag terrorism in which Muslims are framed) constitutes a massive blood libel against Muslims — the people and the religion. Not only that, but it was the enabling event used to justify the launch of the so-called “War on Terror” which created an arc of destruction and murder across the Muslim world. The whole notion that it is more important to contest misconceptions about whatever happened in the 7th century than to contest that is patently absurd! That I realize this has nothing to do with my not being a Muslim myself or not being religious generally. It is simply common sense.

    Moreover, if, contrary to fact, I wanted people to convert to Islam, the first thing I would do is try to make them understand that these terrorism narratives are pretty much entirely false. The whole idea that you, as a Muslim, can really have a neutral stance on these questions is basically ridiculous. Obviously very few people will be attracted to Islam if they believe all these terrorism narratives!

    But anyway, can you imagine Jews behaving like this against a synthetic blood libel? “Oh, I’ll stay neutral on the question of whether Jews drink the blood of Christian children or not.” Of course not. Jews all understand that they must contest such blood libels.

    More opinion – there is not anywhere close to near the same level of attack going on the foundations of Buddhism as on Islam.

    Huh? But I never said there was a similar attack going on against Buddhism…. Oh… I see… you don’t understand what a “conceptual experiment” is. Oh well…

    when you cursed at me like a sailor

    Well, that’s true. I was expressing complete contempt for you. And nothing in particular has changed. But to me, the issue is not what I say regarding that, or whether I use coarse language when expressing my view honestly. The issue is that your behavior does not meet a very high moral standard and you really ought to raise it. In particular, this whole idea that you can go along with blood libels against your own people and never raise your voice against these things, I find this flabbergasting really.

    this is not getting anywhere.

    Well, that’s because you’re too stubborn to recognize the obvious truth of what I’m telling you.

    • Replies: @Talha
  379. Miro23 says:
    @Alexander

    I think you would find that the vast majority of people in our country are honest if not all the time, 99% of the time. So there is an underlying assumption that when there is an incident of rape, or multiple rapes, as in the case of Cologne, that people who are stating it happened , would never make it up.

    Yet once you have seen evidence of such deceptions, and recognize it as a pattern of behavior in order to “manipulate” people to hate, or fear, or fight war, or whatever, then you are correct in viewing these incidents with skepticism, and scratching the surface for the tell tale signs of fraud.

    I think that this is right. The MSM can get away with their agenda based propaganda because most people take reporting at face value, especially if it comes from historically trusted sources like the Washington Post or New York Times.

    I generally believed the MSM (ex Economist and WaPo subscriber here) until I went down the Building 7 rabbit hole. Until that point I didn’t question the 9/11 Al Qaeda story, and I read the 9/11 Commission Report and found it to be quite reasonable with its account of government crossed responsibilities and bungling (how could I question Building 7 if it the Report didn’t even mention it?)

    Turning general belief into general disbelief seems to be a slow process but it can happen. Witness the Soviet Union where the public eventually automatically discarded any news coming from an official source, and interestingly this was the beginning of the end for the CCCP.

    My personal (UK) experience with the media and the Iraq war was that 1) Saddam Hussein was presented as the bad guy that he was 2) that he was building nuclear and chemical WMD with seemingly credible evidence presented 3) that he was sheltering Al Qaeda bases, implying that he was part of the 9/11 story 4) that the UK was under imminent WMD threat from Iraq, as explained by Prime Minister Blair. This part seemed somewhat over-the-top at the time, but it was all in a good cause. There was no question that the Americans and British were the good guys, and the UK press quickly got onto the UK public’s favourite subject of analyzing weapons systems, battlefield diagrams etc.

  380. Talha says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Hey JR,

    This conversation should have really ended at around #375 on a friendly note, but…

    Yipee – more free psychoo-analysis!

    because you believe that some people here might convert to Islam as a result

    Stranger things have happened…

    No, my intention is to present an alternative narrative to what most people have been exposed to (most people have already been exposed to an alternative 9/11 narrative and most have made their minds and are pretty stuck on their narrative – I have rarely seen anyone seriously shift their position because they were yelled at enough). The vast majority of the people here have never heard of the four Sunni Orthodox schools or how they stand in contrast to the extremists. The MSM regularly has interviews with (Post)Modern or reformist Muslims that are from far Left field and hardly represent the tradition. The other intention is to expose the hypocrisy and the blatant lies that people like Gellar, Spencer and the other haters regularly throw – so that people do not take them seriously as a source of information. Some people have appreciated what I do, some people can’t wait for me to shut up.

    Maybe some people will do more research on their own, maybe they won’t – that’s between them and God – guidance belongs to Him alone.

    your grip on reality is quite tenuous

    Yes, and it may be contagious – I suggest you keep your distance.

    The whole notion that it is more important to contest misconceptions about whatever happened in the 7th century than to contest that is patently absurd!

    Not to a Muslim. A suggested experiment; walk into downtown Cairo or Tehran or Karachi, then yell at the top of your lungs that you believe a bunch of Muslims rammed jets into the Twin Towers and OBL was behind it. Then take a few steps to the left and scream out that you think the Prophet (pbuh) was a murderous barbarian. Tell us (assuming you can still type afterwards) which one returns the stronger reaction.

    The whole idea that you, as a Muslim, can really have a neutral stance on these questions is basically ridiculous.

    Quite ridiculous – which is why I don’t have a neutral stance about it.

    I was expressing complete contempt for you. And nothing in particular has changed.

    At least you are consistent.

    Well, that’s because you’re too stubborn to recognize the obvious truth of what I’m telling you.

    I think you are right – I’m a waste of your time really; a dishonest, low-brow cad and a traitor to my own people. In fact, I’ll do us both a favor. To save you the effort from wasting any further time typing, I will ignore any further comments aimed at me from you on UNZ or in my inbox…

    There, I just created a filter to forward to my delete box. Since you are definitely not a person who looks for approval, I’m sure you won’t bother with trying to change my mind.

    Don’t worry, I won’t bother you in your sandbox any more. But, as this is someone else’s sandbox, I’ll continue to poop in my corner until I’m asked to leave by them. If you don’t like the smell, feel free to shift over to the other three corners!

    Peace.

  381. alexander says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    I do not know your age, JR,

    But I am in my mid fifties, and I can recall ,very well, the four decades before 9-11, and there were very very few “terror ” incidents of any sort….and still less attributed to Muslims.

    As a matter of fact, there were more “terror events” last year than there were in the forty years between 1960-2000 combined.

    After checking, I saw that our entire DHS budget for 2016 was a shade under 65 billion dollars,and we have spent close to 850 billion over the last 15 years “eradicating terror”in the homeland…. yet somehow there were LESS terror events for the entire 40 years before 9-11, when our DHS budget did not even exist.

    So we spend practically ZERO on homeland security for forty years….and there is practically ZERO terror…And after spending nearly a trillion dollars of taxpayer money to eradicate it, there are more terror events in 2016 than there ever were, before 9-11.

    Have you considered this ?

    Does it add up to you ?

    As I mentioned in another post a few months back, its like paying your plumber to fix the leaky pipes in your home, and after having paid him exorbitant sums…there are more leaky pipes than ever.

    Does it seem like that to you ?

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  382. @Talha

    This conversation should have really ended at around #375 on a friendly note,

    I don’t see why. Things were just starting to get interesting…

    The whole notion that it is more important to contest misconceptions about whatever happened in the 7th century than to contest that is patently absurd!

    Not to a Muslim. A suggested experiment; walk into downtown Cairo or Tehran or Karachi, then yell at the top of your lungs that you believe a bunch of Muslims rammed jets into the Twin Towers and OBL was behind it. Then take a few steps to the left and scream out that you think the Prophet (pbuh) was a murderous barbarian. Tell us (assuming you can still type afterwards) which one returns the stronger reaction.

    Well, the above is really a very silly argument. It is based on the fallacious notion that the importance of an issue is related to the emotional reaction that it elicits. A simple example should suffice to illustrate this:

    Suppose you were out strolling with your wife and somebody came up and called your wife a whore. Now, I take it as a given that your wife is not and never has been a prostitute and the accusation is probably utterly absurd. However, such a thing is very likely to elicit a violent reaction. Maybe not from you but from many men. (Especially in the cases where there is truth to the accusation!) Regardless, many men would feel honor-bound to get into a real fight over something like this.

    Now, that the statement in question is highly inflammatory clearly does not mean that it is a matter of great practical importance in the world. Similarly, somebody saying that the Virgin Mary was a whore or that Muhammad was a rapist or any such thing could well elicit a violent reaction. However, that does not logically imply that it is a matter of great practical importance in the current day. It’s just that people don’t like having their religion insulted and they don’t like having their wife or mother insulted. And so forth. But again, that people react in a visceral manner to these sorts of provocations does NOT AT ALL logically imply that those things are really all that important as practical matters in the current day.

    In fact, the whole thing, analyzed calmly (assuming one can do that) is totally vacuous. The person insulting your wife typically does not even know your wife or anything about her. The person insulting your religion also knows absolutely nothing about your religion. In both cases, he’s just trying to push your buttons.

    No, clearly my point stands. All of the synthetic terrorist events for which Muslims are framed continually, this is a much more important matter practically than misstatements about the Prophet or what Muslims were up to in the Middle Ages or whatever. Even in terms of the prospects of considering Islam seriously for themselves, the association of Islam with terrorism and beheadings and the rest of it is surely the biggest obstacle in terms of people considering Islam. That is what REALLY MATTERS.

    As best I can guess, the reason that you don’t forcefully counter the statements that DO MATTER, i.e. all the framing of Muslims as terrorists is because you have internalized the key element of what I call ARRF, which is the CT strand. You are terrified (for whatever reason) of being labeled as a “conspiracy theorist”.

    “Oh, Allah forbid that somebody think I am a conspiracy theorist! Oy vey…”

    But regardless of the reasons for your behavior, the fact that you do not stand up for your people on the issues that really count leads me to rather negative conclusions regarding your character, i.e. lack of backbone etcetera. That you then try to rationalize your spinelessness in terms of your spirituality and religion — this just strikes me as pathetic.

    To save you the effort from wasting any further time typing, I will ignore any further comments aimed at me from you on UNZ or in my inbox…

    Oh, okay. Well, the thing is that you are such a chronically dishonest person too. Obviously, assuming you really are taking the above steps, it is most certainly not to save ME from any effort. The reason is that you cannot really withstand another iteration or two of this discussion. You are being taken apart. Your pretenses are getting systematically dismantled.

  383. vinteuil says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    “…shit eater idiot…complete fool…ignorant fool…fools like you…”

    Sad.

  384. vinteuil says:
    @Talha

    One lives, one learns.

    Personally, I suspect that the poster commonly known as “Jonathan Revusky” is, in fact, a composite, made up of a whole team of operatives, coming from who-knows-where, aiming at who-knows-what.

  385. hudat says:

    on the contrary- the heathens of this world have a great think coming. God does have a plan, actually. you can get behind the train or get in front, if you like.

  386. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    Now that we have an international order based on some legal precepts (I know there are tons of imperfections)

    There was an international order based on legal precepts. People didn’t always follow it, but it was there; it wasn’t as if a British fleet would suddenly show up off the coast of Ceylon or Japan and announce: “So sorry, my island now”. (Ceylon was acquired on behalf of the Dutch, who held it de jure during the French occupation and just never returned.)

    The British were famous for pulling questionable tricks (hence Perfide Albion) but they always at least pretended to be trying to do the right thing.

    The problem with empires is that they have a natural tendency to expand. People on the borders are always raising trouble; bandits and rebels are always sheltering in nearby areas; the Governor is a friend of some neighboring princeling who has been driven out, and so on.

    The collapse of the British empire was not due to guilt but to the fact that the colonies were fiscally a losing proposition. The American public is now slowly discovering that their empire is too; it largely exists as a way to siphon money from the public coffers to various destinations.

  387. greedy says:
    @Carlton Meyer

    yes most of the world is the promised land of zeonists, the greedy destructive monsters!

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