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Postcard from the End of America: New Haven
Poets Phan Nhien Hao and To Thuy Yen (far left) in New Haven
Poets Phan Nhien Hao and To Thuy Yen (far left) in New Haven

I’ve only been to New Haven four times, and last week, it was only to participate in the commemoration of the Fall of Saigon, as organized by the Vietnamese Studies Program at Yale. I was one of three poets invited. The other two were Phan Nhien Hao (b. 1967) and To Thuy Yen (b. 1938).

I’m the translator of the only book by Hao in English, Night, Fish and Charlie Parker (2005). I first met Hao in Saigon in 2000, and we’ve hung out in San Jose, Illinois and Philly. I’ve even bought a used car from the man. We’re friends, in short. Hao’s father died while fighting for South Vietnam in 1975.

To Thuy Yen, I only got to know last week at Professor Quang Phu Van’s house, where we all stayed. It’s very Vietnamese to prefer the friendlier, shared space of a home, instead of separate hotel rooms. We ate wonderful dishes cooked by Van’s wife and downed vast quantity of his beer, wine and whiskey. Our conversations lasted for hours.

Visiting Iceland in 2007, I learned that a Vietnamese water puppet troupe had performed there. At their hotel, the Vietnamese had converged into just two rooms to socialize, with many sleeping on the floor instead of returning to their own beds. The man who related this was quite bemused. With so few people, Iceland has more than enough space for everyone.

Since To Thuy Yen’s real surname is also Dinh, I brought that up immediately, but we couldn’t establish any shared regional roots. We did discover we had many mutual friends, however, despite our age difference. As a South Vietnamese colonel in charge of propaganda, Yen had many writers working under him.

I asked Yen how much influence did the Americans have on South Vietnamese propaganda, and he said very little, surprisingly. It was the Taiwanese who worked closely with Yen, “Since they had lost to the Communists, they had plenty of experience in dealing with them. The Taiwanese sent four advisors and maintained an office in South Vietnam for about a decade. Our people also went to Taiwan to learn.”

Wartime South Vietnam had many private newspapers, unlike the North, with its government monopoly on all publishing. “Whenever an article appeared that was somewhat favorable to the Communists, they would buy as many copies as possible, since this encouraged the editor to publish similar stories in the future. The article could also be distributed in areas under their control, for their propaganda.”

South Vietnam was also crawling with North Vietnamese agents. “One man was caught on the beach in Phan Thiet. He was originally a Southerner, so spoke like a local, but he had forgotten to adjust his watch! Back then, Hanoi was an hour ahead of Saigon. One of our policemen noticed this discrepancy.”

“That’s amazing!”

“Unfortunately, he was killed in jail by other Communists. They knew he had too much information.”

In hindsight, of course the man should have been kept separately but, as with any war, there were so many prisoners to manage. After the Fall of Saigon, Yen found himself locked up for 13 years altogether, “When they first came in, they had a guy with a red armband and an AK-47, guarding my house, then a truck came by to take all of my books away, to burn or sell as scrap.”

Before 1975, Yen sometimes interrogated Communists at a jail by the SaigonRiver. Now, he was kept in the same prison. “History is just people changing costumes,” Yen chuckled.

Like all South Vietnamese soldiers, Yen was never convicted or sentenced, but simply kept until his captors decided he was properly reeducated. After a decade, Yen was finally released. At least, he didn’t die in custody. His wife, whom I also met in New Haven, had brought food and medicines to Yen while he was imprisoned. The strength of the Vietnamese family is testified by the fact that so many women never abandoned their jailed and highly stigmatized husbands.

Life inside Vietnam was extremely difficult during those postwar years. In a 2000 interview, Phan Nhien Hao told me he had been hungry all the time, “One could hardly think of anything but food.” Luckily, Yen received cash assistance from overseas friends and admirers. Some visited him in Saigon.

When one of his poems was smuggled out and published anonymously in France, Vietnamese state intelligence quickly found out whose it was, thus Yen was again jailed, this time for three years.

“Did he apologize later?” I asked about the man who had leaked the poem. I know this prominent scholar.

“No.”

In 1993, Yen and his family were finally allowed to emigrate to the US. “The day before we left, I warned my wife and kids to watch what they say even after we get on the plane, because it’s still their territory. They can always turn that plane around. It wasn’t until we had landed in Taiwan that we could speak freely.”

Though the global powers, Russia, China and the US, certainly got involved in the Vietnam War, it was still essentially a civil conflict. All of the groups that were aligned against the Communists, such as the Catholics, Cao Dai, Hoa Hao and various nationalist parties, were active way before the Americans showed up. This shouldn’t surprise, for Vietnam, like any other country, didn’t exist simply to be pro or against America. The same Vietnamese factions are still squabbling.

For over a century ending in 1775, Vietnam was also divided, with war erupting between the two halves regularly. Into eternity, most northerners will be annoyed by the southern accent, and vice versa. Like folks everywhere, Vietnamese value their family and home town above all, so no rootless, globalist ideology can enlist them, except by deceit, temporarily. Dodging taxes, they hate centralized control.

Yen, “All societies are tribal. You protect your family and friends, and you get by on your network of allies.”

ORDER IT NOW

One of those Yen took under his wings is a poet friend of mine, “He started out as a captain, but went AWOL twice, so was demoted to second lieutenant when assigned to me. He was totally useless as a soldier. He would be carousing in town all day, then steal cigarettes from my drawers in the evening. I would find him sleeping on my desk! Once he sneaked into a morgue to eat the banana offerings to a corpse!”

Of course, this man’s appalling behavior was deeply unfair to those who had to fight and die, but most men are more like him than a hero under fire. Behind the myth of a John McCain or Davey Crockett is often a frightened, browbeaten, bumbling and compromised mortal. Many others simply won’t fight out of an innate revulsion to slaughter.

At Yale, I read a poem by a man who sided with the Viet Cong. Here’s his bio from my anthology of contemporary Vietnamese poetry, The Deluge, “Tran Vang Sao, real name Nguyen Dinh, was born in Hue in 1942, where he now lives. His father was killed by the French during the First Indochina War. During the Vietnam War, Sao was a contributor to the underground newspaper ‘Youths Against America.’ He joined the National Liberation Front in 1965, lived in areas under its control, broadcasting propaganda until 1969, when he was injured and removed to the north. In spite of his allegiance to the Communist cause during the war—his pen name, ‘Vang Sao,’ means ‘Yellow Star,’ a reference to the national flag—he has been blacklisted since 1972 for his candid depictions of social conditions inside Vietnam. He’s been harassed constantly, even imprisoned, his manuscripts confiscated.”

I’ve introduced you to two poets who chose radically different paths during the Vietnam War. For siding with the losing South, Yen lost 13 years of his life. After fighting for the victorious North, Sao has still been punished because his poetry dared to stray from the tyrannical state’s view of itself.

Wandering through Yale, I saw flyers announcing a John Kerry talk, so his shape shifting from anti-war activist to war monger has caused no consternation among his admirers. Likewise, Obama’s eight-year reign as the world’s leading mass murderer hardly dimmed the glow of his Nobel Peace Prize.

In the US, a wrong political stance yields no dire personal consequences, and since no special valor is required, no cowardice is exposed. One can wave the red flag, join the Nazi party, cheer for Trump, swoon for Hillary or idolize Bernie, all without risking anything, really. Collectively, however, Americans’ collusion with their leaders’ political charade is resulting in the ongoing destruction of this nation.

As a child, I witnessed the violent collapse of one country. As an adult, I’m living through the systematic, orderly and, so far, meekly accepted dismantling of another.

You can bet it won’t stay calm much longer. Soon, we’ll see who are our rare heroes, and who will do whatever it takes just to survive another day.

Linh Dinh’s Postcards from the End of America has just been released by Seven Stories Press. He maintains an active photo blog.

 
• Category: History • Tags: Vietnam, Vietnam War 
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  1. “Obama’s eight-year reign as the world’s leading mass murderer”: fascinating comment.

    I’m trying to think of anyone else who was in office in January 2017 who could vie for this title. Assad?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Assad is hugely popular by his people in Syria, particularly the Christians and other minorities. Otherwise, how would he have been able to stay in power in the face of sustained murderous attacks by Turkey, the US, Israel, and their creation and ally ISIS, for the last five years. If you believe that he is a mass murderer, you must be a fan of the MSM, where reality is turned upside down and inside out.
    , @Truth
    Hey it's all relative, Sport. In 1989, Don Majkowski led the NFL in passing yards.
    , @Bill
    What mass murders has Assad committed?
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc.
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  2. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @dearieme
    "Obama’s eight-year reign as the world’s leading mass murderer": fascinating comment.

    I'm trying to think of anyone else who was in office in January 2017 who could vie for this title. Assad?

    Assad is hugely popular by his people in Syria, particularly the Christians and other minorities. Otherwise, how would he have been able to stay in power in the face of sustained murderous attacks by Turkey, the US, Israel, and their creation and ally ISIS, for the last five years. If you believe that he is a mass murderer, you must be a fan of the MSM, where reality is turned upside down and inside out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dearieme
    I have every confidence that it is possible to be both popular and a mass murderer. Consider Stalin, Mao, Hitler.

    "If you believe that he is a mass murderer": get somebody to explain to you the meaning of "?".
    , @Right wing Jew
    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned. Get over it. You nazis have more in common with ISIS than Israel and your beloved Adolf had a fond affection for the savage cult, which contrasted with his loathing of Christian Europe.
    , @jack ryan
    Agreed and well said.

    Plus President Assad of Syria has a beautiful, very well educated British Wife - she's modern, but respectful of local customs - not a feminist bitch, whore, nore a 7th century slave confined to a burka.

    I always support the best looking, the best dressed Middle Eastern leaders with the best looking wives.
  3. Thanks for another nuanced and thought provoking essay. Anytime I see a new column by you in the Unz Review, Linh Dinh, it is the first thing I read.

    Civil wars are always tragedies. The civil war in Vietnam was longer and more brutal than most. It is heartening to read how some of the victims of this war have recovered and prospered to some degree. I am expecting a civil war in this country sooner or later. I am glad to read evidence that there is always hope of some sort of eventual recovery, even for the future (pieces of the ???) USA.

    Read More
  4. February 23, 2015 America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776 The U.S. Has Only Been At Peace For *21* Years Total Since Its Birth

    Below, I have reproduced a year-by-year timeline of America’s wars, which reveals something quite interesting: since the United States was founded in 1776, she has been at war during 214 out of her 235 calendar years of existence. In other words, there were only *21* calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41086.htm

    US Imperialism 1900-2010

    Timeline of United States military operations; dates show the year in which the US dispatched troops.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Thanks for the timeline.
    , @jacques sheete
    93% of the time it's been involved in shooting wars.

    The other 7% of the time was quite likely spent planning and instigating them.

    If one adds the internal wars, I bet Amerika has been in de facto shooting wars 100% of the time even before it was declared the US of A.

    If we consider economic wars, I wouldn't be surprised to find the figure at 100% either, and all the time accompanied by a continuous effluence of readily accepted lies and theft.
  5. A very informative piece about the Vietnam War and Vietnamese literature from the perspective of a writer who is really knowledgeable about these two subjects. Thanks.

    Read More
  6. American intervention in the Vietnamese civil war was a colossal and tragic blunder that inflicted enormous additional suffering on people who could not possibly present a threat to us and destroyed or very negatively impacted the lives of at least hundreds of thousands of Americans.
    The only conceivable benefit to this country would have lain in learning a very costly lesson but even that has apparently been thrown away.
    Discouraging. Very discouraging.

    Read More
  7. Linh,

    I am afraid that your penultimate paragraph will prove all too true.

    Who would have thought that the Soviet Empire would have collapsed and be dismembered overnight?

    Certainly not our own Kremlinologists who had spent their whole careers studying Russia only to be caught totally unaware!

    Read More
  8. Not for nothing, but New Haven is known by many locals as ‘Drug Haven.’ Testimony to the family’s difficult past that life there didn’t factor one whit into this story?

    Read More
  9. Linh, thanks. Do you know offhand whether the archives of the former North Vietnam are open to Western researchers? I’m thinking, of course, of the political and military records during America’s involvement there.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
    Hi JackOH,

    It depends on which archives. American academics and POW/MIA team have had access to certain archives for a while now.

    Just like with Washington, Hanoi keeps a lot in the dark!


    Linh
  10. The U.S. is fine.

    We’re a stolidly middle class country. Everybody’s fat.

    You’re imposing a world view from your home country on the most bourgeois society in human history.

    Poets and musicians and writers are drama queens. The U.S. is boring. There aren’t going to be any great upheavals for you to poetize. Get used to it.

    We’re more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that’s good.

    It just doesn’t appeal much to the romantic in poets.

    Read More
    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    As long as the money's still good.
    , @Sam Shama
    I have never seen this truth so powerfully yet simply put. Nice comment.
    , @Clyde

    We’re more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that’s good.
     
    Lawn mowers are very interesting, I maintain and use mine as the slave to a green carpet. More interesting than poetry but not great dramas.
    , @Dumbo

    We’re a stolidly middle class country

     

    So was Germany before WWI / Weimar republic. So was Rome before the collapse. Things take a long time to be built, but they have a tendency to go to hell pretty fast.

    I am not saying this will happen in the near future (I am not quite as pessimist as Lihn Dihn), but it could happen.

    Also, I have seen recently more and more people barely affording to live paycheck to paycheck. And I mean white, educated people.

    Also, if immigration of illegal Mexicans continues at the current rhythm, in a few decades the US will become a "stolidly middle class country" like Mexico. Just redefining what "middle class" means.
    , @Stonehands
    Haha, fantastic! But are you really damming your assertions with faint praise?
  11. @Anon
    Assad is hugely popular by his people in Syria, particularly the Christians and other minorities. Otherwise, how would he have been able to stay in power in the face of sustained murderous attacks by Turkey, the US, Israel, and their creation and ally ISIS, for the last five years. If you believe that he is a mass murderer, you must be a fan of the MSM, where reality is turned upside down and inside out.

    I have every confidence that it is possible to be both popular and a mass murderer. Consider Stalin, Mao, Hitler.

    “If you believe that he is a mass murderer”: get somebody to explain to you the meaning of “?”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    I have every confidence that it is possible to be both popular and a mass murderer. Consider Stalin, Mao, Hitler.
     
    You forgot Churchill and FDR, although one doesn't have to dig back that far. All one has to do is remember "Bibi."

    PS: It doesn't take any special degree of insight to discover that Hitler's purported mass murders were ultimately caused by Brit "diplomacy" and Bolshevik depravity with a little help from the power hungry FDR and the goofy French leadership. Don't let the usual suspects dupe ya, again.
  12. @dearieme
    "Obama’s eight-year reign as the world’s leading mass murderer": fascinating comment.

    I'm trying to think of anyone else who was in office in January 2017 who could vie for this title. Assad?

    Hey it’s all relative, Sport. In 1989, Don Majkowski led the NFL in passing yards.

    Read More
  13. @Shouting Thomas
    The U.S. is fine.

    We're a stolidly middle class country. Everybody's fat.

    You're imposing a world view from your home country on the most bourgeois society in human history.

    Poets and musicians and writers are drama queens. The U.S. is boring. There aren't going to be any great upheavals for you to poetize. Get used to it.

    We're more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that's good.

    It just doesn't appeal much to the romantic in poets.

    As long as the money’s still good.

    Read More
  14. @JackOH
    Linh, thanks. Do you know offhand whether the archives of the former North Vietnam are open to Western researchers? I'm thinking, of course, of the political and military records during America's involvement there.

    Hi JackOH,

    It depends on which archives. American academics and POW/MIA team have had access to certain archives for a while now.

    Just like with Washington, Hanoi keeps a lot in the dark!

    Linh

    Read More
    • Replies: @JackOH
    Linh, thanks. I'd really like to know the judgments of Ho Chi Minh and other North Vietnamese leaders of Presidents Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, the American military leadership, and so on.

    My knowledge of Vietnam and the American intervention there is pretty weak. What little I've read seems to not mention at all what seems obvious to me. North Vietnam could enlist the primal power of anti-colonialism, national and family unification, national independence, and whatever appeal Marxist thought had, plus significant combat experience on familiar terrain. I'll admit I don't know if anti-colonialism and so on actually translated into a motive force for the average soldier or guerrilla.

    But, yes, I can understand where Hanoi would want to keep a lid on North Vietnam's evaluations of America's leaders.
  15. @Agent76
    February 23, 2015 America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776 The U.S. Has Only Been At Peace For *21* Years Total Since Its Birth

    Below, I have reproduced a year-by-year timeline of America’s wars, which reveals something quite interesting: since the United States was founded in 1776, she has been at war during 214 out of her 235 calendar years of existence. In other words, there were only *21* calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41086.htm

    US Imperialism 1900-2010

    Timeline of United States military operations; dates show the year in which the US dispatched troops.

    https://youtu.be/Q51NFAkmE-g

    Thanks for the timeline.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Agent76
    You are very welcome Alden, I am just keeping it real.
  16. @Linh Dinh
    Hi JackOH,

    It depends on which archives. American academics and POW/MIA team have had access to certain archives for a while now.

    Just like with Washington, Hanoi keeps a lot in the dark!


    Linh

    Linh, thanks. I’d really like to know the judgments of Ho Chi Minh and other North Vietnamese leaders of Presidents Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon, the American military leadership, and so on.

    My knowledge of Vietnam and the American intervention there is pretty weak. What little I’ve read seems to not mention at all what seems obvious to me. North Vietnam could enlist the primal power of anti-colonialism, national and family unification, national independence, and whatever appeal Marxist thought had, plus significant combat experience on familiar terrain. I’ll admit I don’t know if anti-colonialism and so on actually translated into a motive force for the average soldier or guerrilla.

    But, yes, I can understand where Hanoi would want to keep a lid on North Vietnam’s evaluations of America’s leaders.

    Read More
  17. I haven’t been to NH since I left the Venezuelan utopia in the making called Connecticut, but one thing about NH that I remember was the downtown presence of their sharply uniformed mounted police.

    I mention this because few things would work better in controlling leftist mobs than mounted police. No tear gas or sound cannons or armored trucks needed. Just let leftist thugs harm one horse or its rider and it’d be over in minutes.

    For this reason I would expect leftist politicians in sanctuary cities and infesting legislatures to instinctively seek to eliminate mounted police and their symbolic representation of American order.

    Read More
  18. @dearieme
    "Obama’s eight-year reign as the world’s leading mass murderer": fascinating comment.

    I'm trying to think of anyone else who was in office in January 2017 who could vie for this title. Assad?

    What mass murders has Assad committed?

    Read More
    • Replies: @dearieme
    "What mass murders has Assad committed?"

    Yes, that was my question. Do you have an answer?
  19. I don’t want to diminish this article by trying to offer my opinion of it since I know of no adjectives or even series of them to adequately describe its vlaue.

    Also, I was tempted to comment and congratulate every paragraph, but each one kept getting better until there would be too much to say!!!

    Anyway, yes to all…

    In the US, a wrong political stance yields no dire personal consequences, and since no special valor is required, no cowardice is exposed. One can wave the red flag, join the Nazi party, cheer for Trump, swoon for Hillary or idolize Bernie, all without risking anything, really. Collectively, however, Americans’ collusion with their leaders’ political charade is resulting in the ongoing destruction of this nation.

    As a child, I witnessed the violent collapse of one country. As an adult, I’m living through the systematic, orderly and, so far, meekly accepted dismantling of another.

    Here’s another fine article describing some of the keys to the methods..

    I’m constantly amazed by the ability of those in power to create a narrative trusted by a gullible non-critical thinking populace. Appealing to emotions, when you have millions of functionally illiterate, normalcy bias ensnared, iGadget distracted, disciples of the status quo, has been the game plan of the Deep State for the last century.

    - By Jim Quinn, The Horror! The Horror!

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/05/jim-quinn/the-horror/

    Read More
  20. @dearieme
    I have every confidence that it is possible to be both popular and a mass murderer. Consider Stalin, Mao, Hitler.

    "If you believe that he is a mass murderer": get somebody to explain to you the meaning of "?".

    I have every confidence that it is possible to be both popular and a mass murderer. Consider Stalin, Mao, Hitler.

    You forgot Churchill and FDR, although one doesn’t have to dig back that far. All one has to do is remember “Bibi.”

    PS: It doesn’t take any special degree of insight to discover that Hitler’s purported mass murders were ultimately caused by Brit “diplomacy” and Bolshevik depravity with a little help from the power hungry FDR and the goofy French leadership. Don’t let the usual suspects dupe ya, again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lex
    Are you telling us Hitler murdered all those Polish, Soviet and other civillians and POWs because Brits forced him to? Could you provide any evidence?
  21. @Agent76
    February 23, 2015 America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776 The U.S. Has Only Been At Peace For *21* Years Total Since Its Birth

    Below, I have reproduced a year-by-year timeline of America’s wars, which reveals something quite interesting: since the United States was founded in 1776, she has been at war during 214 out of her 235 calendar years of existence. In other words, there were only *21* calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41086.htm

    US Imperialism 1900-2010

    Timeline of United States military operations; dates show the year in which the US dispatched troops.

    https://youtu.be/Q51NFAkmE-g

    93% of the time it’s been involved in shooting wars.

    The other 7% of the time was quite likely spent planning and instigating them.

    If one adds the internal wars, I bet Amerika has been in de facto shooting wars 100% of the time even before it was declared the US of A.

    If we consider economic wars, I wouldn’t be surprised to find the figure at 100% either, and all the time accompanied by a continuous effluence of readily accepted lies and theft.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    I think the most evil war was the suppression of the whiskey rebellion by our elite founding fathers.
    Briefly, the founders borrowed 13 billion in today's dollars from France to fight the revolution and buy our first gold reserves.
    After the revolution we had to pay it back, although I don't know if we actually did pay the entire amount.
    So who was tapped to pay back that loan? The wealthy coastal landowners? Never!!
    The wealthy merchants? Never!!

    Hamilton looked around and discovered the cottage industry of whiskey distillation on the frontier. But of course, the perfect suckers to pay for the revolution

    Washington led more troops to suppress the whiskey rebellion than he ever led against the British.

    Learning about that war turned me into a class warrior populist. But then the class war turned into a race war and I'm consigned to the looser race.

    And a few years later President Madison made the unelected life long tenured Supreme Court dictators over the people and their elected representatives and the elected president

    , @Agent76
    Here it is in reading format as well. Thanks for commenting and viewing. February 23, 2015 America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776

    The U.S. Has Only Been At Peace For 21 Years Total Since Its Birth. Below, I have reproduced a year-by-year timeline of America’s wars, which reveals something quite interesting: since the United States was founded in 1776, she has been at war during 214 out of her 235 calendar years of existence. In other words, there were only 21 calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41086.htm
  22. So we read the usual compartmentalizing: commies over there, the not-commies over here – which is to say, an oversimplification. That’s the way we like it. But “the same Vietnamese factions are still squabbling.” Pay or reward people and they’ll repeat, believe and do just about anything. Ironically, the greatest delusions are going to originate from those we’d assume ‘lived through it’, or ‘were there at the time’.

    Read More
  23. The war in Vietnam wasn’t a civil war. The shameless French, defeated and humiliated by the Nazi and the Japanese, rode on the tail of the American imperialists and returned to Vietnam after world war II trying reconquer their former colony but was kicked shitless by the Viet Minh. The Americans immediately took up where their French underlings left off, in the Western Imperialist tradition, and what followed was 20 years of the most horrific holocaust perpetrated by the US war machine the world had ever seen. Those who say the war was only a conflict between the north and the south are still deluded by the US and their Saigon puppets’ propaganda, even after all these years. Geopolitics? That’s another subject.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jack ryan
    Oh do please psssss off.

    French policy, french culture was/is great for Viet Nam and so many other places.

    Consider the mix of French and Vietnamese cuisine served by beautiful young Vietnamese women waitresses, wearing French fashions.

    And what was the Viet Minh, Viet Cong alternative?

    A bowl of rice with locals dressed in sexless Mao uniforms.

    Siagon is now Siagon for a great reason.....

    The French.

    Viva Le France

    Please take your Communist S#*&$#@ to North Korea - if you are lucky the locals will give you a small bowl of rice.

    Jees
    , @Wizard of Oz
    You have concocted most of that picture from youthful ignorance and a mind where absence of factual knowledge is made up for by theory and dogma - just like religion for most people. "Their French underlings" is ridiculous even before de Gaulle returned (remember Suez? No probably not only not born then but not aware of it). And are you denying agency to all those millions of Buddhists, Christians and other opponents of the Soviet Union supported Communists with their doctrines that regarded their fellow citizens as needing "re-education" ? You also ignore the key points against your thesis. I refer to the fact that America's serious involvement only started in1964 AND that it had nothing to do with "Western Imperialism" but everything to do with the Cold War [heard of that?] and the fear of expansive Communism, not least in South Korea, South East Asia generally, and Australasia.
  24. LBJ got his ass kicked by a little guy in sandals. A perfect punishment

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    America was untouched. Vietnam was devastated. And then Vietnam got into war with China and then got stuck in a war with Cambodia. A most bitter victory.

    Given Vietnam's caving to homomania and Diversity, it looks like the US conquered Vietnam with bribes and hedonism. Vietnamese men are pimps again whoring out their daughters.

    Viet Cong must be rolling their graves. Viet Cucks now rule the nation.

    All for nothing.
  25. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Pandos
    LBJ got his ass kicked by a little guy in sandals. A perfect punishment

    America was untouched. Vietnam was devastated. And then Vietnam got into war with China and then got stuck in a war with Cambodia. A most bitter victory.

    Given Vietnam’s caving to homomania and Diversity, it looks like the US conquered Vietnam with bribes and hedonism. Vietnamese men are pimps again whoring out their daughters.

    Viet Cong must be rolling their graves. Viet Cucks now rule the nation.

    All for nothing.

    Read More
  26. @Anon
    Assad is hugely popular by his people in Syria, particularly the Christians and other minorities. Otherwise, how would he have been able to stay in power in the face of sustained murderous attacks by Turkey, the US, Israel, and their creation and ally ISIS, for the last five years. If you believe that he is a mass murderer, you must be a fan of the MSM, where reality is turned upside down and inside out.

    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned. Get over it. You nazis have more in common with ISIS than Israel and your beloved Adolf had a fond affection for the savage cult, which contrasted with his loathing of Christian Europe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Get over it.
     
    Really?

    Well that's pretty rich, coming as it did, from yet another "eternal victim."
    , @Bill

    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned
     
    I don't believe you.

    Why, for example, does ISIS apologize when it accidentally engages in friendly fire incidents with its Israeli allies?

    , @Sam J.
    "...Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS..."

    This either a straight up lie or a bit of a lie in that they didn't actually create it. The US did. They support it and provide weapons, arms and medical care.
  27. @Right wing Jew
    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned. Get over it. You nazis have more in common with ISIS than Israel and your beloved Adolf had a fond affection for the savage cult, which contrasted with his loathing of Christian Europe.

    Get over it.

    Really?

    Well that’s pretty rich, coming as it did, from yet another “eternal victim.”

    Read More
  28. @jacques sheete

    I have every confidence that it is possible to be both popular and a mass murderer. Consider Stalin, Mao, Hitler.
     
    You forgot Churchill and FDR, although one doesn't have to dig back that far. All one has to do is remember "Bibi."

    PS: It doesn't take any special degree of insight to discover that Hitler's purported mass murders were ultimately caused by Brit "diplomacy" and Bolshevik depravity with a little help from the power hungry FDR and the goofy French leadership. Don't let the usual suspects dupe ya, again.

    Are you telling us Hitler murdered all those Polish, Soviet and other civillians and POWs because Brits forced him to? Could you provide any evidence?

    Read More
    • Troll: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    Not all. And not only the Brits.

    Blockade.

    Comintern.

    Bankers.

    Etc.


    Think about those.

    Here's more...

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler's Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    - Murray Rothbard 1966
    http://mises.org/daily/2592
     
    And here's another primer. You seem to have a lot of work to do. Get on it.

    Review of The Origins of the Second World War
    By Murray N. Rothbard


    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/murray-n-rothbard/origins-2nd-world-war/ [From a memo to Mr. Kenneth Templeton at the William Volker Fund, April 18, 1962.]

     

    PS: Don't bother employing the old canard that Rothbard was a self loather.
  29. @Bill
    What mass murders has Assad committed?

    “What mass murders has Assad committed?”

    Yes, that was my question. Do you have an answer?

    Read More
  30. @Right wing Jew
    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned. Get over it. You nazis have more in common with ISIS than Israel and your beloved Adolf had a fond affection for the savage cult, which contrasted with his loathing of Christian Europe.

    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned

    I don’t believe you.

    Why, for example, does ISIS apologize when it accidentally engages in friendly fire incidents with its Israeli allies?

    Read More
    • Replies: @jack ryan
    ISIS wasn't created by Israel, same as 9/11/01 was done by the Mossad and inside CIA Zionists.

    That said.

    Israel is strangely near 100% allied with the House of Saud - Sunni Islamists who did fund ISIS, Osama Bin Laden Was Saudi Sunni $ billionaire, 14 out of the 18 9/11/01 mass murderer terrorists were Saudi Sunni Islamists.

    The Israelis, American Israeli lobby, the American Jewish elite are sadly also on the side of Saudi Arabia that there must not be any restrictions on mass Muslim migrations to Europe, UK, USA, Australia the West.

    Any of us supporting President Trump's very modest policies to restrict mass Muslim migration - we're denounced as terrible racist NAZIS by BOTH the Israelis, American Jewish community and Saudi Sunni Islamists.

    Israel and Saudi Arabia aren't taking ANY Syrian Islamist war refugees they agree that they must all be dumped on Western Europe, Scandinavia, England and the good old US of A.

    Neither Saudi Arabia or Israel is on our side regarding ISIS or resisting the Mass Muslim invasions of the West.

    I hope that answers everyone's question on this.
  31. @Lex
    Are you telling us Hitler murdered all those Polish, Soviet and other civillians and POWs because Brits forced him to? Could you provide any evidence?

    Not all. And not only the Brits.

    Blockade.

    Comintern.

    Bankers.

    Etc.

    Think about those.

    Here’s more…

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler’s Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    - Murray Rothbard 1966

    http://mises.org/daily/2592

    And here’s another primer. You seem to have a lot of work to do. Get on it.

    Review of The Origins of the Second World War
    By Murray N. Rothbard

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/murray-n-rothbard/origins-2nd-world-war/ [From a memo to Mr. Kenneth Templeton at the William Volker Fund, April 18, 1962.]

    PS: Don’t bother employing the old canard that Rothbard was a self loather.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lex
    Doesn't explain murdering Poles, Belarusians, Russians, Jews and Gypsies in occupied territories. And that's what I was asking about. Don't change the subject.
    , @Sam J.
    I read the link at
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/murray-n-rothbard/origins-2nd-world-war/
    and it has a huge problem. It doesn't mention at all the "World Island" theory.

    http://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/geography/mackinders-heartland-theory-explained/42542/

    The idea that if one power in Europe could control Eastern Europe it could eventually control all the Worlds biggest Island. Europe, Russia, China, etc. since they are all tied together. Whether this is right or not it extremely likely that that's why the British decided to attack Germany. Poland was just one more brick in the wall of controlling all of Eastern Europe. In my mind not taking this into account destroys his whole argument. Now I may very well be wrong about this but I think you would be hard pressed to prove that the English didn't hold the World Island idea to be valid and that they weren't thinking about it at all. The idea that they were just hard asses has a lot less evidence than a theory promoted by the British themselves.
  32. My grandfather recalls the 1967 New Haven riots … for others though it was the Summer of Love and of Sgt Pepper – in Dwight Street …

    Read More
  33. @Shouting Thomas
    The U.S. is fine.

    We're a stolidly middle class country. Everybody's fat.

    You're imposing a world view from your home country on the most bourgeois society in human history.

    Poets and musicians and writers are drama queens. The U.S. is boring. There aren't going to be any great upheavals for you to poetize. Get used to it.

    We're more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that's good.

    It just doesn't appeal much to the romantic in poets.

    I have never seen this truth so powerfully yet simply put. Nice comment.

    Read More
  34. @Shouting Thomas
    The U.S. is fine.

    We're a stolidly middle class country. Everybody's fat.

    You're imposing a world view from your home country on the most bourgeois society in human history.

    Poets and musicians and writers are drama queens. The U.S. is boring. There aren't going to be any great upheavals for you to poetize. Get used to it.

    We're more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that's good.

    It just doesn't appeal much to the romantic in poets.

    We’re more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that’s good.

    Lawn mowers are very interesting, I maintain and use mine as the slave to a green carpet. More interesting than poetry but not great dramas.

    Read More
  35. I liked this personal account with fair history, respectful to most sides but LINH DINH writes:

    “In the US, a wrong political stance yields no dire personal consequences, and since no special valor is required, no cowardice is exposed. One can wave the red flag, join the Nazi party, cheer for Trump, swoon for Hillary or idolize Bernie, all without risking anything, really.”

    I respond:

    That is simply not true – at the best it’s very naive, at the worst…..

    To tell you how bad it is on American college campuses, graduate school, the mainstream media or just in certain places.

    I was in the Stern NYU MBA program, rated the #1 MBA program in the USA. I was invited to a TA event to see the Vice Presidential Debate between GOP Dan Qualye and Dem Loyd Benson. The teacher and women TAs were all just hating on Dan Qualye and I defended him as not being really that bad -that he hadn’t raped or killed anyone and his crime was just being a Midwestern guy from Indiana and I was a Midwestern guy from Illinois….

    I was ostracized, smeared as a terrible racist, hater, extremists and the one job interview I set up on my own I sure was sabotaged.

    It’s just reality that the United States does not have freedom of speech, freedom of association for Conservatives, traditional Christians or in my case heterosexual White Midwesterners.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    In fairness, however, I believe that a distinction should be made. Mr. Dinh appears to have been referring to the activity of government, as opposed to such non-governmenatl entities as colleges and universities (whose administrations behave in a manner almost indistinguishable from a garden variety totalitarian police state). On the other hand, considering who runs the government apparatus (and the increasing presence of the so-called "Deep State") that distinction is becoming increasingly blurred
  36. @Shouting Thomas
    The U.S. is fine.

    We're a stolidly middle class country. Everybody's fat.

    You're imposing a world view from your home country on the most bourgeois society in human history.

    Poets and musicians and writers are drama queens. The U.S. is boring. There aren't going to be any great upheavals for you to poetize. Get used to it.

    We're more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that's good.

    It just doesn't appeal much to the romantic in poets.

    We’re a stolidly middle class country

    So was Germany before WWI / Weimar republic. So was Rome before the collapse. Things take a long time to be built, but they have a tendency to go to hell pretty fast.

    I am not saying this will happen in the near future (I am not quite as pessimist as Lihn Dihn), but it could happen.

    Also, I have seen recently more and more people barely affording to live paycheck to paycheck. And I mean white, educated people.

    Also, if immigration of illegal Mexicans continues at the current rhythm, in a few decades the US will become a “stolidly middle class country” like Mexico. Just redefining what “middle class” means.

    Read More
  37. @Anon
    Assad is hugely popular by his people in Syria, particularly the Christians and other minorities. Otherwise, how would he have been able to stay in power in the face of sustained murderous attacks by Turkey, the US, Israel, and their creation and ally ISIS, for the last five years. If you believe that he is a mass murderer, you must be a fan of the MSM, where reality is turned upside down and inside out.

    Agreed and well said.

    Plus President Assad of Syria has a beautiful, very well educated British Wife – she’s modern, but respectful of local customs – not a feminist bitch, whore, nore a 7th century slave confined to a burka.

    I always support the best looking, the best dressed Middle Eastern leaders with the best looking wives.

    Read More
  38. @jacques sheete
    Not all. And not only the Brits.

    Blockade.

    Comintern.

    Bankers.

    Etc.


    Think about those.

    Here's more...

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler's Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    - Murray Rothbard 1966
    http://mises.org/daily/2592
     
    And here's another primer. You seem to have a lot of work to do. Get on it.

    Review of The Origins of the Second World War
    By Murray N. Rothbard


    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/murray-n-rothbard/origins-2nd-world-war/ [From a memo to Mr. Kenneth Templeton at the William Volker Fund, April 18, 1962.]

     

    PS: Don't bother employing the old canard that Rothbard was a self loather.

    Doesn’t explain murdering Poles, Belarusians, Russians, Jews and Gypsies in occupied territories. And that’s what I was asking about. Don’t change the subject.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Doesn’t explain murdering Poles, Belarusians, Russians, Jews and Gypsies in occupied territories. And that’s what I was asking about. Don’t change the subject.
     
    Don't tell me what to do. And for that, don't expect me to attempt to deal with you in a reasonable fashion.

    Have a nice day now!
  39. @TranHungDao
    The war in Vietnam wasn't a civil war. The shameless French, defeated and humiliated by the Nazi and the Japanese, rode on the tail of the American imperialists and returned to Vietnam after world war II trying reconquer their former colony but was kicked shitless by the Viet Minh. The Americans immediately took up where their French underlings left off, in the Western Imperialist tradition, and what followed was 20 years of the most horrific holocaust perpetrated by the US war machine the world had ever seen. Those who say the war was only a conflict between the north and the south are still deluded by the US and their Saigon puppets' propaganda, even after all these years. Geopolitics? That's another subject.

    Oh do please psssss off.

    French policy, french culture was/is great for Viet Nam and so many other places.

    Consider the mix of French and Vietnamese cuisine served by beautiful young Vietnamese women waitresses, wearing French fashions.

    And what was the Viet Minh, Viet Cong alternative?

    A bowl of rice with locals dressed in sexless Mao uniforms.

    Siagon is now Siagon for a great reason…..

    The French.

    Viva Le France

    Please take your Communist S#*&$#@ to North Korea – if you are lucky the locals will give you a small bowl of rice.

    Jees

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stonehands
    Praise the Lord! You slaughtered them to save them- so the survivors could serve you baguettes and their women could service you in the latest French fashions...
  40. @Bill

    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned
     
    I don't believe you.

    Why, for example, does ISIS apologize when it accidentally engages in friendly fire incidents with its Israeli allies?

    ISIS wasn’t created by Israel, same as 9/11/01 was done by the Mossad and inside CIA Zionists.

    That said.

    Israel is strangely near 100% allied with the House of Saud – Sunni Islamists who did fund ISIS, Osama Bin Laden Was Saudi Sunni $ billionaire, 14 out of the 18 9/11/01 mass murderer terrorists were Saudi Sunni Islamists.

    The Israelis, American Israeli lobby, the American Jewish elite are sadly also on the side of Saudi Arabia that there must not be any restrictions on mass Muslim migrations to Europe, UK, USA, Australia the West.

    Any of us supporting President Trump’s very modest policies to restrict mass Muslim migration – we’re denounced as terrible racist NAZIS by BOTH the Israelis, American Jewish community and Saudi Sunni Islamists.

    Israel and Saudi Arabia aren’t taking ANY Syrian Islamist war refugees they agree that they must all be dumped on Western Europe, Scandinavia, England and the good old US of A.

    Neither Saudi Arabia or Israel is on our side regarding ISIS or resisting the Mass Muslim invasions of the West.

    I hope that answers everyone’s question on this.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I think you oversimplify the Israel-Saudi relationship and implicitly exaggerate its durability. Plain logic suggests that it is the increasingly precarious position of the Saudi royal family which makes them de facto allies of Israel (a bit like the Egyptian army and Sisi). Once the Saudis have real trouble with their Shia population near most of their oil and run out of money to buy off other discontents they will no doubt split, with most of the rich drifting off to peaceful modrrn countries and a hard core doing what it takes, like the Assads and Saddam Hussein to rule by fear. Even then they won't be wanting trouble with Israel. Survival comes first. So the relationship will be de facto not much changed - unless the hard heads see a need for support from anti-Israel fanatics.
  41. @Lex
    Doesn't explain murdering Poles, Belarusians, Russians, Jews and Gypsies in occupied territories. And that's what I was asking about. Don't change the subject.

    Doesn’t explain murdering Poles, Belarusians, Russians, Jews and Gypsies in occupied territories. And that’s what I was asking about. Don’t change the subject.

    Don’t tell me what to do. And for that, don’t expect me to attempt to deal with you in a reasonable fashion.

    Have a nice day now!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Lex
    You've lost. Your idol - Hitler - knew what to do when he lost. Do you?
  42. @jack ryan
    ISIS wasn't created by Israel, same as 9/11/01 was done by the Mossad and inside CIA Zionists.

    That said.

    Israel is strangely near 100% allied with the House of Saud - Sunni Islamists who did fund ISIS, Osama Bin Laden Was Saudi Sunni $ billionaire, 14 out of the 18 9/11/01 mass murderer terrorists were Saudi Sunni Islamists.

    The Israelis, American Israeli lobby, the American Jewish elite are sadly also on the side of Saudi Arabia that there must not be any restrictions on mass Muslim migrations to Europe, UK, USA, Australia the West.

    Any of us supporting President Trump's very modest policies to restrict mass Muslim migration - we're denounced as terrible racist NAZIS by BOTH the Israelis, American Jewish community and Saudi Sunni Islamists.

    Israel and Saudi Arabia aren't taking ANY Syrian Islamist war refugees they agree that they must all be dumped on Western Europe, Scandinavia, England and the good old US of A.

    Neither Saudi Arabia or Israel is on our side regarding ISIS or resisting the Mass Muslim invasions of the West.

    I hope that answers everyone's question on this.

    I think you oversimplify the Israel-Saudi relationship and implicitly exaggerate its durability. Plain logic suggests that it is the increasingly precarious position of the Saudi royal family which makes them de facto allies of Israel (a bit like the Egyptian army and Sisi). Once the Saudis have real trouble with their Shia population near most of their oil and run out of money to buy off other discontents they will no doubt split, with most of the rich drifting off to peaceful modrrn countries and a hard core doing what it takes, like the Assads and Saddam Hussein to rule by fear. Even then they won’t be wanting trouble with Israel. Survival comes first. So the relationship will be de facto not much changed – unless the hard heads see a need for support from anti-Israel fanatics.

    Read More
  43. @TranHungDao
    The war in Vietnam wasn't a civil war. The shameless French, defeated and humiliated by the Nazi and the Japanese, rode on the tail of the American imperialists and returned to Vietnam after world war II trying reconquer their former colony but was kicked shitless by the Viet Minh. The Americans immediately took up where their French underlings left off, in the Western Imperialist tradition, and what followed was 20 years of the most horrific holocaust perpetrated by the US war machine the world had ever seen. Those who say the war was only a conflict between the north and the south are still deluded by the US and their Saigon puppets' propaganda, even after all these years. Geopolitics? That's another subject.

    You have concocted most of that picture from youthful ignorance and a mind where absence of factual knowledge is made up for by theory and dogma – just like religion for most people. “Their French underlings” is ridiculous even before de Gaulle returned (remember Suez? No probably not only not born then but not aware of it). And are you denying agency to all those millions of Buddhists, Christians and other opponents of the Soviet Union supported Communists with their doctrines that regarded their fellow citizens as needing “re-education” ? You also ignore the key points against your thesis. I refer to the fact that America’s serious involvement only started in1964 AND that it had nothing to do with “Western Imperialism” but everything to do with the Cold War [heard of that?] and the fear of expansive Communism, not least in South Korea, South East Asia generally, and Australasia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Stonehands
    Nobody is denying "agency" -to anyone- to fight the latest MIC boogyman...DO IT on your own dime.

    And- low and behold- the US now has diplomatic and trade relations with those ebil commies.
  44. @jacques sheete
    93% of the time it's been involved in shooting wars.

    The other 7% of the time was quite likely spent planning and instigating them.

    If one adds the internal wars, I bet Amerika has been in de facto shooting wars 100% of the time even before it was declared the US of A.

    If we consider economic wars, I wouldn't be surprised to find the figure at 100% either, and all the time accompanied by a continuous effluence of readily accepted lies and theft.

    I think the most evil war was the suppression of the whiskey rebellion by our elite founding fathers.
    Briefly, the founders borrowed 13 billion in today’s dollars from France to fight the revolution and buy our first gold reserves.
    After the revolution we had to pay it back, although I don’t know if we actually did pay the entire amount.
    So who was tapped to pay back that loan? The wealthy coastal landowners? Never!!
    The wealthy merchants? Never!!

    Hamilton looked around and discovered the cottage industry of whiskey distillation on the frontier. But of course, the perfect suckers to pay for the revolution

    Washington led more troops to suppress the whiskey rebellion than he ever led against the British.

    Learning about that war turned me into a class warrior populist. But then the class war turned into a race war and I’m consigned to the looser race.

    And a few years later President Madison made the unelected life long tenured Supreme Court dictators over the people and their elected representatives and the elected president

    Read More
    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    I think the most evil war was the suppression of the whiskey rebellion by our elite founding fathers.
     
    That certainly was evil and so was the elite's oppression leading up to, and their war against, Shay's rebellion.

    Regarding the Whiskey rebellion, I believe that G Washington was one of the most prominent whiskey makers of the time, and he wasn't about to have any competition from the prols and peasants especially since it was a medium of exchange at the time.

  45. Remember McNamara and Westmoreland and all the god dam generals and politicians who kept the war going, knowing full well that it was a loser. All those lives, Vietnamese and American lost to politics.

    Beware – add the Jews, to the generals and politicians and we got Iraq – now we have Iran coming up!

    All this war making is crazy. It does not have to be. Do not give your power to these evil people. Do not be passive.

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam J.
    "...Remember McNamara and Westmoreland and all the god dam generals and politicians who kept the war going, knowing full well that it was a loser. All those lives, Vietnamese and American lost to politics..."

    I suggest that this line of "it was a loser" is unmitigated bullshit. After the Tet offensive the Viet Cong were mostly gone. The attacks were mostly from the North. When the North attacked and the South fell it was the biggest agglomeration of tanks since WWII and the battle of Kursk. The reason the South lost was the Democratic Congress refused to allow Ford to use American air power. There's only a few roads leading to the South. They were completely jammed with tanks and troop trucks. It was a complete turkey shoot. Ford was told he would be impeached if he used air power to stop them so the South fell. The Democrats had been saying the war could never be won and by God they were not going to be proven wrong. The Democrats voted a completely inadequate amount of arms, the South Vietnamese ran out of ammunition and were beaten. This did not have to happen. With a minimal of air power the North could have been completely routed. It might have set them back so far they would have never tried again.

    The idea that the Vietnam vets died for nothing is a huge psyops by the Democrats. Can you read a map? South Vietnam has one of the best deep water ports in Asia and it's the stepping stone to all of South Asia. Just take a look at the damn map and see what is around Vietnam. It's a very strategic point.

    I remember those times. The USSR had over 20,000 nuclear missiles pointed at us. They had guerilla wars all over the place. They were winning. We decided to fight them in Vietnam to slow them down and it worked partially. A lot of the Southeastern countries defeated their Communist guerilla forces while the Vietnam war was going on and now while they aren't all perfect they beat the reeducation camps of the Commies.
    , @Sam J.
    Yes McNamara and Westmoreland were sort of pieces of shit but looking at the situation they wee in they were trapped. For Westmoreland the only way to stop the enemy was to go out and kill them. Maybe you have better ideas about this but if so they're not readily apparent. We couldn't attack the North in full force. Remember North Korea and the Chinese? At the time the Chinese had been and was going ape shit and killing their own people right and left. What would be a few million more while killing Americans to the Chinese???

    Johnson was even more incompetent than Nixon. Nixon mined their harbors, shut down their railroads and fucked up their supply situation really good. Blasting their supply dumps in Cambodia really gave them fits and B-52 drops on their troops set them WAY back. As for McNamara, he knew that it was going to be a long slog with the constrictions against direct action against the North and he didn't tell us. He knew. Was this a good idea? I don't know. I think if all of them had been straight and laid out the case that the Commies had killed over 100 million of their own people and were slowly attacking every government on the planet just about and would do us in if we didn't fight and then went balls to the walls in Vietnam, AND WON within in a year. I think it would have been better all around instead of hiding the truth. For those that were against the war at least it would have been clear instead of being muddled as some one off police action.
  46. @jacques sheete

    Doesn’t explain murdering Poles, Belarusians, Russians, Jews and Gypsies in occupied territories. And that’s what I was asking about. Don’t change the subject.
     
    Don't tell me what to do. And for that, don't expect me to attempt to deal with you in a reasonable fashion.

    Have a nice day now!

    You’ve lost. Your idol – Hitler – knew what to do when he lost. Do you?

    Read More
  47. In the US, a wrong political stance yields no dire personal consequences

    That is beginning to change with the fascist DNC sponsored anti-free speech riots on university and college campuses and outside town halls, as well as the blacklisting and career destroying attacks from the fascist Left on social media.

    Read More
  48. @jacques sheete
    93% of the time it's been involved in shooting wars.

    The other 7% of the time was quite likely spent planning and instigating them.

    If one adds the internal wars, I bet Amerika has been in de facto shooting wars 100% of the time even before it was declared the US of A.

    If we consider economic wars, I wouldn't be surprised to find the figure at 100% either, and all the time accompanied by a continuous effluence of readily accepted lies and theft.

    Here it is in reading format as well. Thanks for commenting and viewing. February 23, 2015 America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776

    The U.S. Has Only Been At Peace For 21 Years Total Since Its Birth. Below, I have reproduced a year-by-year timeline of America’s wars, which reveals something quite interesting: since the United States was founded in 1776, she has been at war during 214 out of her 235 calendar years of existence. In other words, there were only 21 calendar years in which the U.S. did not wage any wars.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41086.htm

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  49. @Alden
    I think the most evil war was the suppression of the whiskey rebellion by our elite founding fathers.
    Briefly, the founders borrowed 13 billion in today's dollars from France to fight the revolution and buy our first gold reserves.
    After the revolution we had to pay it back, although I don't know if we actually did pay the entire amount.
    So who was tapped to pay back that loan? The wealthy coastal landowners? Never!!
    The wealthy merchants? Never!!

    Hamilton looked around and discovered the cottage industry of whiskey distillation on the frontier. But of course, the perfect suckers to pay for the revolution

    Washington led more troops to suppress the whiskey rebellion than he ever led against the British.

    Learning about that war turned me into a class warrior populist. But then the class war turned into a race war and I'm consigned to the looser race.

    And a few years later President Madison made the unelected life long tenured Supreme Court dictators over the people and their elected representatives and the elected president

    I think the most evil war was the suppression of the whiskey rebellion by our elite founding fathers.

    That certainly was evil and so was the elite’s oppression leading up to, and their war against, Shay’s rebellion.

    Regarding the Whiskey rebellion, I believe that G Washington was one of the most prominent whiskey makers of the time, and he wasn’t about to have any competition from the prols and peasants especially since it was a medium of exchange at the time.

    Read More
  50. There seems to be a lot of smarmy comments about so called “leftists.”

    The goofy left/right dichotomy is, and has been, an utterly bogus concept for decades and those who think and express themselves in such terms may want to dig a bit deeper. At a minimum the use of those terms is a credibility damper if not destroyer.

    The quote is from a short but as always excellent article by Rothbard explaining the concept, written almost 50 years ago. Hint:The terms change meaning and have become essentially meaningless when discussing political issues.

    It is obvious that something is very wrong with the old [political] labels, with the categories of “left” and “right,” and with the ways in which we customarily apply these categories to American political life. My personal odyssey is unimportant; the important point is that if I can move from “extreme right” to “extreme left” merely by standing in one place, drastic though unrecognized changes must have taken place throughout the American political spectrum over the last generation.

    - Rothbard, Murray N.. Confessions of a Right-Wing Liberal, Ludwig von Mises Institute

    https://mises.org/library/confessions-right-wing-liberal

    Read More
  51. @jack ryan
    Oh do please psssss off.

    French policy, french culture was/is great for Viet Nam and so many other places.

    Consider the mix of French and Vietnamese cuisine served by beautiful young Vietnamese women waitresses, wearing French fashions.

    And what was the Viet Minh, Viet Cong alternative?

    A bowl of rice with locals dressed in sexless Mao uniforms.

    Siagon is now Siagon for a great reason.....

    The French.

    Viva Le France

    Please take your Communist S#*&$#@ to North Korea - if you are lucky the locals will give you a small bowl of rice.

    Jees

    Praise the Lord! You slaughtered them to save them- so the survivors could serve you baguettes and their women could service you in the latest French fashions…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Well, if that's all, then clearly every country needs to be "saved" at least once a century. The women would be an improvement.
  52. @Wizard of Oz
    You have concocted most of that picture from youthful ignorance and a mind where absence of factual knowledge is made up for by theory and dogma - just like religion for most people. "Their French underlings" is ridiculous even before de Gaulle returned (remember Suez? No probably not only not born then but not aware of it). And are you denying agency to all those millions of Buddhists, Christians and other opponents of the Soviet Union supported Communists with their doctrines that regarded their fellow citizens as needing "re-education" ? You also ignore the key points against your thesis. I refer to the fact that America's serious involvement only started in1964 AND that it had nothing to do with "Western Imperialism" but everything to do with the Cold War [heard of that?] and the fear of expansive Communism, not least in South Korea, South East Asia generally, and Australasia.

    Nobody is denying “agency” -to anyone- to fight the latest MIC boogyman…DO IT on your own dime.

    And- low and behold- the US now has diplomatic and trade relations with those ebil commies.

    Read More
  53. @Stonehands
    Praise the Lord! You slaughtered them to save them- so the survivors could serve you baguettes and their women could service you in the latest French fashions...

    Well, if that’s all, then clearly every country needs to be “saved” at least once a century. The women would be an improvement.

    Read More
  54. @Shouting Thomas
    The U.S. is fine.

    We're a stolidly middle class country. Everybody's fat.

    You're imposing a world view from your home country on the most bourgeois society in human history.

    Poets and musicians and writers are drama queens. The U.S. is boring. There aren't going to be any great upheavals for you to poetize. Get used to it.

    We're more interested in lawn mowers than poetry and great dramas. And that's good.

    It just doesn't appeal much to the romantic in poets.

    Haha, fantastic! But are you really damming your assertions with faint praise?

    Read More
  55. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    “Like folks everywhere, Vietnamese value their family and home town above all, so no rootless, globalist ideology can enlist them, except by deceit, temporarily. Dodging taxes, they hate centralized control.”

    Bravo! By Jove, my kind of people!!

    Read More
  56. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jack ryan
    I liked this personal account with fair history, respectful to most sides but LINH DINH writes:

    "In the US, a wrong political stance yields no dire personal consequences, and since no special valor is required, no cowardice is exposed. One can wave the red flag, join the Nazi party, cheer for Trump, swoon for Hillary or idolize Bernie, all without risking anything, really."

    I respond:

    That is simply not true - at the best it's very naive, at the worst.....

    To tell you how bad it is on American college campuses, graduate school, the mainstream media or just in certain places.

    I was in the Stern NYU MBA program, rated the #1 MBA program in the USA. I was invited to a TA event to see the Vice Presidential Debate between GOP Dan Qualye and Dem Loyd Benson. The teacher and women TAs were all just hating on Dan Qualye and I defended him as not being really that bad -that he hadn't raped or killed anyone and his crime was just being a Midwestern guy from Indiana and I was a Midwestern guy from Illinois....

    I was ostracized, smeared as a terrible racist, hater, extremists and the one job interview I set up on my own I sure was sabotaged.

    It's just reality that the United States does not have freedom of speech, freedom of association for Conservatives, traditional Christians or in my case heterosexual White Midwesterners.

    In fairness, however, I believe that a distinction should be made. Mr. Dinh appears to have been referring to the activity of government, as opposed to such non-governmenatl entities as colleges and universities (whose administrations behave in a manner almost indistinguishable from a garden variety totalitarian police state). On the other hand, considering who runs the government apparatus (and the increasing presence of the so-called “Deep State”) that distinction is becoming increasingly blurred

    Read More
    • Replies: @JackOH
    " . . . [C]olleges and universities (whose administrations behave in a manner almost indistinguishable from a garden variety totalitarian police state)." Agree. I've already mentioned in an earlier comment that the nests of surveillance cameras at my local Podunk Tech are routinely used for supervision by intimidation and harassment. Department chairs and staff supervisors, not people thought of as exercising police functions, have monitoring stations in their offices and will target disfavored employees. The faculty union has publicly said nothing.
  57. @anonymous
    In fairness, however, I believe that a distinction should be made. Mr. Dinh appears to have been referring to the activity of government, as opposed to such non-governmenatl entities as colleges and universities (whose administrations behave in a manner almost indistinguishable from a garden variety totalitarian police state). On the other hand, considering who runs the government apparatus (and the increasing presence of the so-called "Deep State") that distinction is becoming increasingly blurred

    ” . . . [C]olleges and universities (whose administrations behave in a manner almost indistinguishable from a garden variety totalitarian police state).” Agree. I’ve already mentioned in an earlier comment that the nests of surveillance cameras at my local Podunk Tech are routinely used for supervision by intimidation and harassment. Department chairs and staff supervisors, not people thought of as exercising police functions, have monitoring stations in their offices and will target disfavored employees. The faculty union has publicly said nothing.

    Read More
  58. @Lex
    You've lost. Your idol - Hitler - knew what to do when he lost. Do you?

    Umm … Pack the gold and move to Brazil?

    Read More
  59. “One can wave the red flag, join the Nazi party, cheer for Trump, swoon for Hillary or idolize Bernie, all without risking anything, really. “

    You really do risk things by joining the Nazi party. You would probably lose job opportunities. Even voting for Trump would make you a social outcast in big cities.

    As for Hillary, communism, or Bernie, of course you are under no threat for supporting them.

    Read More
  60. @Right wing Jew
    Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS, an entity that would like to see the Jewish state destroyed and its people burned. Get over it. You nazis have more in common with ISIS than Israel and your beloved Adolf had a fond affection for the savage cult, which contrasted with his loathing of Christian Europe.

    “…Israel had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of ISIS…”

    This either a straight up lie or a bit of a lie in that they didn’t actually create it. The US did. They support it and provide weapons, arms and medical care.

    Read More
  61. “…As an adult, I’m living through the systematic, orderly and, so far, meekly accepted dismantling of another…”

    I believe this is true also.

    Read More
  62. @Art
    Remember McNamara and Westmoreland and all the god dam generals and politicians who kept the war going, knowing full well that it was a loser. All those lives, Vietnamese and American lost to politics.

    Beware – add the Jews, to the generals and politicians and we got Iraq - now we have Iran coming up!

    All this war making is crazy. It does not have to be. Do not give your power to these evil people. Do not be passive.

    Peace --- Art

    “…Remember McNamara and Westmoreland and all the god dam generals and politicians who kept the war going, knowing full well that it was a loser. All those lives, Vietnamese and American lost to politics…”

    I suggest that this line of “it was a loser” is unmitigated bullshit. After the Tet offensive the Viet Cong were mostly gone. The attacks were mostly from the North. When the North attacked and the South fell it was the biggest agglomeration of tanks since WWII and the battle of Kursk. The reason the South lost was the Democratic Congress refused to allow Ford to use American air power. There’s only a few roads leading to the South. They were completely jammed with tanks and troop trucks. It was a complete turkey shoot. Ford was told he would be impeached if he used air power to stop them so the South fell. The Democrats had been saying the war could never be won and by God they were not going to be proven wrong. The Democrats voted a completely inadequate amount of arms, the South Vietnamese ran out of ammunition and were beaten. This did not have to happen. With a minimal of air power the North could have been completely routed. It might have set them back so far they would have never tried again.

    The idea that the Vietnam vets died for nothing is a huge psyops by the Democrats. Can you read a map? South Vietnam has one of the best deep water ports in Asia and it’s the stepping stone to all of South Asia. Just take a look at the damn map and see what is around Vietnam. It’s a very strategic point.

    I remember those times. The USSR had over 20,000 nuclear missiles pointed at us. They had guerilla wars all over the place. They were winning. We decided to fight them in Vietnam to slow them down and it worked partially. A lot of the Southeastern countries defeated their Communist guerilla forces while the Vietnam war was going on and now while they aren’t all perfect they beat the reeducation camps of the Commies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Whoever
    While I am a non-interventionist and don't think we should have gotten involved in Viet Nam, you are correct. The 1975 North Vietnamese invasion -- bigger than D-Day at Normandy -- would have turned into an utter disaster for the North had we responded as we did to their 1972 invasion. The North Vietnamese gave us a target-rich environment such as had probably not been seen since the Falaise Pocket in 1944.
    Nineteen seventy-five was fully into the smart-bomb era with the BOLT-117, HOBOS television-guided bomb and Paveway (Thanh Hóa Bridge, 1972, being the poster child), and the devastation we could have wrought would have been unbelievable. Using the early versions of laser-guided and television guided bombs during the 1972 North Vietnamese invasion, with far fewer bombs dropped, we destroyed more targets per day that we did per week during Rolling Thunder (1967), so much more accurate was our weapons delivery capability.
    By 1975, with the LGBs then available, we could have destroyed in days what would have taken months to destroy in the pre-guided bomb era.
    , @Art
    I suggest that this line of “it was a loser” is unmitigated bullshit. After the Tet offensive the Viet Cong were mostly gone.

    Really - we won every battle but lost the war - I call that losing!

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Killing a million people is losing.

    p.s. War is for losers.

    p.s. Westmoreland is in hell.
  63. @jacques sheete
    Not all. And not only the Brits.

    Blockade.

    Comintern.

    Bankers.

    Etc.


    Think about those.

    Here's more...

    “… this entire myth, so prevalent then and even now about Hitler, and about the Japanese, is a tissue of fallacies from beginning to end. Every plank in this nightmare evidence is either completely untrue or not entirely the truth.
    If people should learn this intellectual fraud about Hitler's Germany, then they will begin to ask questions, and searching questions…”

    - Murray Rothbard 1966
    http://mises.org/daily/2592
     
    And here's another primer. You seem to have a lot of work to do. Get on it.

    Review of The Origins of the Second World War
    By Murray N. Rothbard


    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/murray-n-rothbard/origins-2nd-world-war/ [From a memo to Mr. Kenneth Templeton at the William Volker Fund, April 18, 1962.]

     

    PS: Don't bother employing the old canard that Rothbard was a self loather.

    I read the link at

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/03/murray-n-rothbard/origins-2nd-world-war/

    and it has a huge problem. It doesn’t mention at all the “World Island” theory.

    http://www.yourarticlelibrary.com/geography/mackinders-heartland-theory-explained/42542/

    The idea that if one power in Europe could control Eastern Europe it could eventually control all the Worlds biggest Island. Europe, Russia, China, etc. since they are all tied together. Whether this is right or not it extremely likely that that’s why the British decided to attack Germany. Poland was just one more brick in the wall of controlling all of Eastern Europe. In my mind not taking this into account destroys his whole argument. Now I may very well be wrong about this but I think you would be hard pressed to prove that the English didn’t hold the World Island idea to be valid and that they weren’t thinking about it at all. The idea that they were just hard asses has a lot less evidence than a theory promoted by the British themselves.

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  64. @Sam J.
    "...Remember McNamara and Westmoreland and all the god dam generals and politicians who kept the war going, knowing full well that it was a loser. All those lives, Vietnamese and American lost to politics..."

    I suggest that this line of "it was a loser" is unmitigated bullshit. After the Tet offensive the Viet Cong were mostly gone. The attacks were mostly from the North. When the North attacked and the South fell it was the biggest agglomeration of tanks since WWII and the battle of Kursk. The reason the South lost was the Democratic Congress refused to allow Ford to use American air power. There's only a few roads leading to the South. They were completely jammed with tanks and troop trucks. It was a complete turkey shoot. Ford was told he would be impeached if he used air power to stop them so the South fell. The Democrats had been saying the war could never be won and by God they were not going to be proven wrong. The Democrats voted a completely inadequate amount of arms, the South Vietnamese ran out of ammunition and were beaten. This did not have to happen. With a minimal of air power the North could have been completely routed. It might have set them back so far they would have never tried again.

    The idea that the Vietnam vets died for nothing is a huge psyops by the Democrats. Can you read a map? South Vietnam has one of the best deep water ports in Asia and it's the stepping stone to all of South Asia. Just take a look at the damn map and see what is around Vietnam. It's a very strategic point.

    I remember those times. The USSR had over 20,000 nuclear missiles pointed at us. They had guerilla wars all over the place. They were winning. We decided to fight them in Vietnam to slow them down and it worked partially. A lot of the Southeastern countries defeated their Communist guerilla forces while the Vietnam war was going on and now while they aren't all perfect they beat the reeducation camps of the Commies.

    While I am a non-interventionist and don’t think we should have gotten involved in Viet Nam, you are correct. The 1975 North Vietnamese invasion — bigger than D-Day at Normandy — would have turned into an utter disaster for the North had we responded as we did to their 1972 invasion. The North Vietnamese gave us a target-rich environment such as had probably not been seen since the Falaise Pocket in 1944.
    Nineteen seventy-five was fully into the smart-bomb era with the BOLT-117, HOBOS television-guided bomb and Paveway (Thanh Hóa Bridge, 1972, being the poster child), and the devastation we could have wrought would have been unbelievable. Using the early versions of laser-guided and television guided bombs during the 1972 North Vietnamese invasion, with far fewer bombs dropped, we destroyed more targets per day that we did per week during Rolling Thunder (1967), so much more accurate was our weapons delivery capability.
    By 1975, with the LGBs then available, we could have destroyed in days what would have taken months to destroy in the pre-guided bomb era.

    Read More
  65. @Sam J.
    "...Remember McNamara and Westmoreland and all the god dam generals and politicians who kept the war going, knowing full well that it was a loser. All those lives, Vietnamese and American lost to politics..."

    I suggest that this line of "it was a loser" is unmitigated bullshit. After the Tet offensive the Viet Cong were mostly gone. The attacks were mostly from the North. When the North attacked and the South fell it was the biggest agglomeration of tanks since WWII and the battle of Kursk. The reason the South lost was the Democratic Congress refused to allow Ford to use American air power. There's only a few roads leading to the South. They were completely jammed with tanks and troop trucks. It was a complete turkey shoot. Ford was told he would be impeached if he used air power to stop them so the South fell. The Democrats had been saying the war could never be won and by God they were not going to be proven wrong. The Democrats voted a completely inadequate amount of arms, the South Vietnamese ran out of ammunition and were beaten. This did not have to happen. With a minimal of air power the North could have been completely routed. It might have set them back so far they would have never tried again.

    The idea that the Vietnam vets died for nothing is a huge psyops by the Democrats. Can you read a map? South Vietnam has one of the best deep water ports in Asia and it's the stepping stone to all of South Asia. Just take a look at the damn map and see what is around Vietnam. It's a very strategic point.

    I remember those times. The USSR had over 20,000 nuclear missiles pointed at us. They had guerilla wars all over the place. They were winning. We decided to fight them in Vietnam to slow them down and it worked partially. A lot of the Southeastern countries defeated their Communist guerilla forces while the Vietnam war was going on and now while they aren't all perfect they beat the reeducation camps of the Commies.

    I suggest that this line of “it was a loser” is unmitigated bullshit. After the Tet offensive the Viet Cong were mostly gone.

    Really – we won every battle but lost the war – I call that losing!

    Peace — Art

    p.s. Killing a million people is losing.

    p.s. War is for losers.

    p.s. Westmoreland is in hell.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam J.
    "...Really – we won every battle but lost the war – I call that losing!..."

    You are a liar as I didn't say that. A blatant liar. I said we lost the final battle because the Democratic Congress has just got rid of Nixon and Ford was told he would be impeached if he used air power to defend the South. So no we did not win every battle and we know exactly whose fault it was that this happened. Just to make this less partisan I hate the Republicans and the Libertarians too. They all suck.
  66. @Art
    I suggest that this line of “it was a loser” is unmitigated bullshit. After the Tet offensive the Viet Cong were mostly gone.

    Really - we won every battle but lost the war - I call that losing!

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Killing a million people is losing.

    p.s. War is for losers.

    p.s. Westmoreland is in hell.

    “…Really – we won every battle but lost the war – I call that losing!…”

    You are a liar as I didn’t say that. A blatant liar. I said we lost the final battle because the Democratic Congress has just got rid of Nixon and Ford was told he would be impeached if he used air power to defend the South. So no we did not win every battle and we know exactly whose fault it was that this happened. Just to make this less partisan I hate the Republicans and the Libertarians too. They all suck.

    Read More
  67. @Art
    Remember McNamara and Westmoreland and all the god dam generals and politicians who kept the war going, knowing full well that it was a loser. All those lives, Vietnamese and American lost to politics.

    Beware – add the Jews, to the generals and politicians and we got Iraq - now we have Iran coming up!

    All this war making is crazy. It does not have to be. Do not give your power to these evil people. Do not be passive.

    Peace --- Art

    Yes McNamara and Westmoreland were sort of pieces of shit but looking at the situation they wee in they were trapped. For Westmoreland the only way to stop the enemy was to go out and kill them. Maybe you have better ideas about this but if so they’re not readily apparent. We couldn’t attack the North in full force. Remember North Korea and the Chinese? At the time the Chinese had been and was going ape shit and killing their own people right and left. What would be a few million more while killing Americans to the Chinese???

    Johnson was even more incompetent than Nixon. Nixon mined their harbors, shut down their railroads and fucked up their supply situation really good. Blasting their supply dumps in Cambodia really gave them fits and B-52 drops on their troops set them WAY back. As for McNamara, he knew that it was going to be a long slog with the constrictions against direct action against the North and he didn’t tell us. He knew. Was this a good idea? I don’t know. I think if all of them had been straight and laid out the case that the Commies had killed over 100 million of their own people and were slowly attacking every government on the planet just about and would do us in if we didn’t fight and then went balls to the walls in Vietnam, AND WON within in a year. I think it would have been better all around instead of hiding the truth. For those that were against the war at least it would have been clear instead of being muddled as some one off police action.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    Yes McNamara and Westmoreland were sort of pieces of shit but looking at the situation they wee in they were trapped. For Westmoreland the only way to stop the enemy was to go out and kill them. Maybe you have better ideas about this but if so they’re not readily apparent.
     
    What do you do? You unmercifully bomb a jungle for a month - declare a cease fire - make peace - and go home.

    You do what Reagan did in Lebanon when the Marine barracks was blown up. He unmercifully sent in a battleship and attacked rocks in the hills for a day or two – then we came home.

    Think NO war!

    Peace --- Art
  68. @Sam J.
    Yes McNamara and Westmoreland were sort of pieces of shit but looking at the situation they wee in they were trapped. For Westmoreland the only way to stop the enemy was to go out and kill them. Maybe you have better ideas about this but if so they're not readily apparent. We couldn't attack the North in full force. Remember North Korea and the Chinese? At the time the Chinese had been and was going ape shit and killing their own people right and left. What would be a few million more while killing Americans to the Chinese???

    Johnson was even more incompetent than Nixon. Nixon mined their harbors, shut down their railroads and fucked up their supply situation really good. Blasting their supply dumps in Cambodia really gave them fits and B-52 drops on their troops set them WAY back. As for McNamara, he knew that it was going to be a long slog with the constrictions against direct action against the North and he didn't tell us. He knew. Was this a good idea? I don't know. I think if all of them had been straight and laid out the case that the Commies had killed over 100 million of their own people and were slowly attacking every government on the planet just about and would do us in if we didn't fight and then went balls to the walls in Vietnam, AND WON within in a year. I think it would have been better all around instead of hiding the truth. For those that were against the war at least it would have been clear instead of being muddled as some one off police action.

    Yes McNamara and Westmoreland were sort of pieces of shit but looking at the situation they wee in they were trapped. For Westmoreland the only way to stop the enemy was to go out and kill them. Maybe you have better ideas about this but if so they’re not readily apparent.

    What do you do? You unmercifully bomb a jungle for a month – declare a cease fire – make peace – and go home.

    You do what Reagan did in Lebanon when the Marine barracks was blown up. He unmercifully sent in a battleship and attacked rocks in the hills for a day or two – then we came home.

    Think NO war!

    Peace — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam J.
    "...What do you do? You unmercifully bomb a jungle for a month – declare a cease fire – make peace – and go home..."

    NO that's what people like you do. That's why we lose so much.

    Nixon kicked their ass. He know exactly what he was doing as opposed to the idiot Johnson. If Nixon had not been cashiered then there would be no lose of South Vietnam. If the Democratic party had not betrayed them they would not have lost. You skip over that because you know it's true.
  69. @Art

    Yes McNamara and Westmoreland were sort of pieces of shit but looking at the situation they wee in they were trapped. For Westmoreland the only way to stop the enemy was to go out and kill them. Maybe you have better ideas about this but if so they’re not readily apparent.
     
    What do you do? You unmercifully bomb a jungle for a month - declare a cease fire - make peace - and go home.

    You do what Reagan did in Lebanon when the Marine barracks was blown up. He unmercifully sent in a battleship and attacked rocks in the hills for a day or two – then we came home.

    Think NO war!

    Peace --- Art

    “…What do you do? You unmercifully bomb a jungle for a month – declare a cease fire – make peace – and go home…”

    NO that’s what people like you do. That’s why we lose so much.

    Nixon kicked their ass. He know exactly what he was doing as opposed to the idiot Johnson. If Nixon had not been cashiered then there would be no lose of South Vietnam. If the Democratic party had not betrayed them they would not have lost. You skip over that because you know it’s true.

    Read More
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