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Obscured American: Rudy List the Retired Math Professor
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Rudy List and Henry Herskovitz
Rudy List and Henry Herskovitz

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Though each life is rich, some are staggeringly so. Over four days in July, I had a series of conversations with Rudy List at his house in Dexter, Michigan. A 74-year-old retired math professor, Rudy introduced me to Hua Luogeng, Zitang Zhang and Terence Tao. In return, I told him about Otto Dix, Cindy Sherman, Honey Boo Boo and Jerry Springer. It was certainly not fair trade.

In Rudy’s kitchen, an aging, sick dove cooed. Across the road, field corn grew. No sounds of cars, crickets or cicadas wafted through the open windows, only late summer weather. Darkness came. As we talked for hours, Rudy’s Hong Kong-born wife pretty much left us alone. A realtor, she had enough on her mind.

How can you tell if a mathematician is extroverted? As he’s talking to you, he’ll look at your shoes instead of his shoes!

My father started out plastering houses, but he was not a very big man, so when he was 30, he decided he wouldn’t last as a plasterer, the work was just so heavy. He became a machinist.

My father worked at Bay City Power Shovels for 25 years until the company fell apart. He spent a couple of years unemployed, then got hired by a place that made molds for casting.

When my mother got engaged to my father, she said, “I don’t want an engagement ring. I want a house,” so they built a house. I’ve lived in many houses and several countries, but this house we had in Bay City will always be home.

In elementary school, I learnt of Pythagoras’ Theorem. I was so fascinated by it that I drew a chalk drawing of its diagram on the basement wall of this house. It was still there 40 years later, in 1994.

Neither one of my parents went to a university. My mother never even went to high school. Her parents were illiterate. My mother was so poor growing up, she often ate bread with lard. She had 11 brothers and sisters.

From the age of 16, my mother was a hairdresser. She ultimately started her own business and had a very loyal following. I think her customers came for the conversations as much as anything else. My mother very forcefully supported her political views.

My father’s first language was German. He didn’t learn English until he went to school. When I was a child, we would all go to my grandparents’ house at Christmas to sing carols in German and eat traditional German food. My mother also spoke some German.

When I was about six or seven, I remember my grandmother cautioning my grandfather that he should speak English outside the house. It was two or three years after the war, and there was a lot of sentiment, still, against the Germans.

When I was in 5th or 6th grade, I wanted to learn how to read and write German. Since I went to a German Lutheran school, all the teachers knew German. A couple of other kids and I asked Mr. Ring if he would teach German to us after school. Mr. Ring was overjoyed.

I went home and told my mom, “We’re going to learn German in school.”

“Das ist gut!”

Within three weeks, a petition went around that said, “This is America. We speak English,” so our German lessons were shut down.

I got my master’s in mathematics from the University of Michigan, then my PhD from the University of Birmingham, where I also taught. I spent 19 years in England altogether. I also taught for a year in Iraq.

Before I started at the University of Mosul, I went to Iran to see a British friend, John. Shortly before I arrived, John’s wife was raped by an Iranian employee, a guy who came by each day to clean up.

The Iranians take things like that very seriously. They locked the rapist in a small cage that was just tall enough for him to stand in, and they didn’t give him food or water. His family came by to feed him, of course, but he was kept in the sun as it got up to 120 degrees. Only John could spare him.

His family went to John’s house each day to plead, but John would just spit at them. After several days in the hot sun, the man died. I didn’t like anything about that situation. I wouldn’t have let the guy die.

John is a complex person. Working in the oil industry, he was in Peru and on the Red Sea with a bunch of American rednecks. He got to know them pretty well. One night, they showed home movies of themselves hunting Indians. They killed the indigenous people, and had movies of themselves doing it.

The guy sitting here showing the movie is the guy in the movie, shooting the person.

I said, “So John, what did you do?!”

He said, “I didn’t do anything. We were on an oil platform, in the middle of the Red Sea.”

This is the sort of shit we don’t know about. You’ll never read it anywhere, but John had all kinds of stories. It’s almost like a government cover-up. You just don’t say anything.

Leaving Iran, I hitchhiked from Ahvaz to the Iraqi border. After I showed my papers at the Iranian checkpoint, I walked across the no man’s land separating Iran from Iraq. There were machine guns on either side trained on each other. It was the loneliest two hundred yards I’ve ever walked. Either side could have shot me and blamed it on the other.

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The guy on the Iraqi side stamped my passport, then went back to fingering his worry beads. There were two taxis nearby, I don’t know why, because there were no travelers. A driver approached and quoted a price, but it was way too high, so I kept walking. I didn’t know how to bargain. Basra was only 15 miles away, but it was 105, and in the desert. After I had walked about 50 yards, the driver ran after me and gave me a fairer price. He even bought me lunch.

The Basra bus station was just a big, unpaved lot with various sorts of vehicles. Some of them looked like school buses here, but they’re all beat up, and they carried anything, including goats and chickens. After half an hour or so, I found one that was going to Baghdad. I also learned the words for “this” and “that” in the process.

The first thing that happens when you get on a bus is they offer you water. They know you need water. Everybody needs water.

They had this big cistern, right near the front of the bus, with a big dipper. The driver offered me water, so I drank it then sat down. While waiting, I watched others board. After drinking, each said “shukran,” so, belatedly, I said “shukran” to the driver.

I got along fine in Iraq. There was never any problem, except for one time. I was walking down the street, smoking, and this guy just started yelling. He pointed at me and looked really angry, so I thought, Oh, he wants a cigarette!

I took out my pack and offered him one, but this only made him angrier. He yanked the cigarette from my mouth, threw it on the ground then stomped on it. That’s when I realized, It’s Ramadan! You’re not supposed to smoke during Ramadan.

It remains the most memorable year of my life. I learnt more in Iraq than anywhere else. It was just a fascinating place, with very old things everywhere. I saw so much that has been destroyed.

Living among Muslims, I knew it wasn’t a good idea to say you didn’t believe in God. The first time someone asked me about my religion, I said I don’t believe in God, I don’t think there is a God. This made them very upset. They were frightened. Like, how can that be? No, no!

Some of my students asked what religion I was? They asked if I believed in the Messiah? I just said, “Yeah, that’s what I believe.”

I lived with an American in an apartment we rented from a goldsmith. My roommate, Alan, also taught at the university. He was a writer of some sort. I can’t remember what the occasion was, but Alan went to Iran for a week, and when he came back, I found him lying on my bed.

Alan always slept stark naked, so there he was, stark naked, on my cot. He said, “Oh, you’ve got to help me.”

Alan had stitches in his face, arms, chest and back, all over. I said, “What happened to you?”

He said, “While I was over there, I had a nightmare. I saw two men in my room, and they were going to attack me, so I jumped through the window.”

Alan was on the second floor. After he landed, he just started running, all bloody and naked. He had no idea where he was.

When the cops came, they couldn’t understand Alan, so they made him jog alongside them, all bloody and naked, back to the police station. They didn’t want to get blood in their car.

At the station, there was someone who understood English, so they took Alan to the hospital, finally. There, they put all these stitches on him, but without anesthesia.

A month later, I heard this terrible rampage coming from his room. I jumped out of bed.

“What’s going on?”

“There are two men in my room!”

I switched on the light, looked around. Alan had knocked over his table. A bottle of ink had splashed all over. His bed was upside down. His books were everywhere.

I didn’t like this situation very much, so I moved, and that’s when I met this Iraqi family. The government was building these cement houses that looked like bunkers, and people from the villages were paid to watch the construction sites. They lived in these tents.

There was an old woman and her two children, Fatih and Aziza, and there was Najma, Aziza’s six-year-old daughter. Najma means “star” in Arabic.

I started to talk to them a bit, then I started to eat dinner with them.

Kids, they’ll repeat a word as many times as you want, so I taught Najma English, and I learnt Arabic from her.

One day, I asked Aziza, “Where do you get your food?”

“Ah, the people around, they have leftovers, so they give them to us.”

By this time, I was speaking Arabic fairly well. You know how to learn a language. Just learn the nouns, nouns, nouns. The connectors will come. They’ll tell you when you’re using them wrong.

I told Aziza, “Look, how about this, I’ll buy you the food, you cook it, and we all eat it together?”

I became Abu Lahm, The Father of Meat. I’d go with Aziza, or sometimes just Najma, to the market, and we’d say, “We want this, and we want that.” Quite often there was a shortage of things, but we always came back with something to eat.

Once, I went with Najma to get some kebabs, and as we were talking to the kebab seller, some guy came up and said to Najma, “Who is this? What is he doing with you?”

She said, “He’s my uncle.”

I felt slightly threatened, because it could have gone the wrong way. I did make a note, not to go to town alone with Najma ever again.

I noticed Aziza’s eyes were slightly bulging, so I looked at her throat, and it was bulging, so I thought, Goiter!

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Iraq had a national health service, and it was totally free, so we went to the hospital. It’s nothing like a hospital here. People were sitting on the floor, and some of them were even cooking. It might not have been very hygienic but, Jesus, it was sure comfortable in terms of social interactions. They all got to know each other. We can learn from this.

We went into this office where there was a doctor sitting behind a desk, looking important. He spoke to me in English, “What are you here for?”

“I think she’s got goiter.”

“What is she to you?”

“She’s my friend.”

“She’s an ignorant peasant.”

“Well, she’s my friend!”

When I was in university, I lived in a co-op, and we had people from all over the world. Indians, Arabs, Chinese, Africans. I loved it, I absolutely loved it. One of the guys, Afif, was a Palestinian from Lebanon. He told me how Arabs interact. He said, “Every Arab thinks of himself as an independent country! If he yells, you shouldn’t worry, but when an Arab gets really quiet, that’s when you should worry.

In the doctor’s office, I raised my voice a bit, so the guy raised his voice. I pounded my fist on the table and said, “I think she has goiter! She needs treatment! She needs to be looked at!”

He looked at me, “OK,” then he said, “We don’t have enough blood. If we’re going to work on her, we need somebody to contribute a pint of blood.”

So I gave a pint that day. I had never done this before. Watching this thing fill up, I thought, Jesus, I hope they remember to pull out the needle!

Done, I walked out. Aziza asked me, “Did you do it?” I said, “Yeah.” There were all these people milling about, conversing. Aziza announced to everybody at the top of her voice, “He gave blood for me! He gave blood for me!” They all looked and clapped. Whoaaah! I became an instant hero!

There was a solar eclipse that year and Aziza got really, really scared. She had no idea what was going on. I tried to explain what was happening, but Aziza wasn’t having any of it. She had no idea there were planets. Aziza knew there was the sun, and it came up each morning. She was back before Copernicus’ time.

After the sun came back out, Aziza started smiling again after a while.

I had friends up and down the scale. I knew a guy who worked at the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission. I had met Imad Khadduri in Ann Arbor. When I taught at the University of Birmingham, Imad was there for his PhD in nuclear engineering. For his last six months there, he stayed at my house. Imad is retired now. He has a website that keeps tracks of what’s going on in Palestine.

In Baghdad, I stayed at Imad’s dad’s house and, later, after he got married, at his house.

Arabs give things away. I actually found out I had to be careful, because if I said something was nice, they would offer it to me. It’s really true.

I asked my old landlord to help me buy a coat. He said, “OK, I’ll take you,” so we went out, and he pulled his gate down halfway. He had a bunch of gold in there.

As he walked off, I said, “What about that? It’s open.”

“Oh, no worries, the others will watch it for me.”

Around Christmas of 1974, I visited Lebanon with my friend, Stanley Hoo. Beirut was absolutely beautiful then. We stayed with a friend of ours in Sabra, one of those places that was destroyed in one of those wars in the 80’s. Shatila Massacre, I know exactly where that is.

Once, as we were walking from central Beirut back to Sabra, Stan said to me, “We’re being followed.”

I looked back and there were these two young guys, maybe 18, 19, and they were just walking behind us. They got closer and closer, then they got right up to us and said, “Where are you going?”

We showed them the address. They said, “Follow us.”

They took us down this little street. Stan said to me, “I don’t think this is going to work out too well.”

They took us into this garage. There was a jeep with a heavy caliber machine gun on the back of it. They opened a door to this office. There was a guy sitting behind a desk, and a guy standing by the wall with a machine gun. There was just one light bulb hanging from the ceiling.

They said, “We would like to ask you some questions.”

“OK.”

“First, where are your passports?”

We show them our passports. Stan’s Chinese. He was carrying an American passport.

“Where are you coming from?”

“England.”

They interrogated us for a while. We explained that we were visiting our friend, Mohammad. Finally, I said, “Please, call this number. Call him up, and he’ll explain.”

The guy finally did that. I said to Stan, “Should we just make a run for it?”

“We’d get killed for sure.”

They brought Mohammad to the garage. His wife was actually an assistant to Yasser Arafat and in the PLO. After everything was cleared up, the guy behind the desk said, “I’m sorry we gave you any trouble, but we have to be careful.”

These were your terrorists! That’s not true. They’re not terrorists! They were just trying to defend their land and get their property back. It’s what anybody would do.

I also visited a refugee camp in Tyre. It had been shelled by ships, probably Israeli, but using American weapons. Somewhere around here I have a piece of shrapnel, about that long, that I picked up in Tyre. It killed somebody.

In 1980, I went to Zambia to teach for six month. Three weeks after my arrival, the university shut down because of political turmoil, so I had nothing to do.

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What I saw was not all that distinctive from the United States. Lusaka is a big city. You have people driving around, people going to work, people going to medical school, people working in the university. What I saw was not that different than what I saw here.

But I saw, in addition, people who were still living in a traditional lifestyle, out in the bush. They live in these grass huts. They lock their door by putting a branch or a twig across it. They brew beer out there, and it gets pretty strong, and it’s not clear, like the beer here. They don’t filter it. It has a lot of yeast in it.

You see women walking down the road, with a stack that high on their heads, and it doesn’t move. I heard a guy say, “Well, women’s heads are made for carrying things, but men’s shoulders are.” It wasn’t like men’s heads are made for thinking or anything.

I got a bit enamored of a secretary in the mathematics department, so I visited her at her house. The next day, she said, “You should not come again.” She explained that such and such a guy, a Zambian, was after her, so he would cast a spell on me and I would die.

I told my friend, Ben, about this, and he said that if he went to work and saw a dead chicken on his desk, he would just go home.

“Why?”

“Nobody should be expected to work if he finds a dead chicken on his desk.”

So you have primitive people and non-primitive people in Zambia. It’s a funny mix. The people at the university were not primitive in a sense that, at least on a rational plane, they were mostly like me, but the dean of the faculty of science, the first time he ever wore shoes was at his graduation from college.

For the most part, the people at the highest strata were posing as sophisticated Europeans. They had all studied there.

I went to Ben’s house for lunch. There was a huge, empty field across from it. Two kids came in, they were maybe ten. They said there was a dead woman out in the field.

It was raining. We walked out and saw this woman, dead, obviously raped and murdered the night before, and left in the field. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing.

We took my Land Rover to the police station to give a report. The guy said, “Well, we have no car available to go and look.”

I said, “There has been a murder there. You’re supposed to investigate.”

“Well, you know, we can’t get anybody to go.”

“Give me somebody, and I’ll take him there!”

They found a photographer to come with us. We watched him daintily, daintily tread across the wet ground, so he could take a picture. That’s it. I don’t know how long she lay there.

This astonished me. I didn’t know this kind of thing could happen.

After I had returned to England, Ben wrote to say hi, and he said, “By the way, two months later, I found another dead person.”

Apparently, these women had taken buses from the villages to Lusaka. After they had hired a taxi at the bus station, the driver just raped and murdered them.

By 2001, I was back in Michigan and working for Lockwood Financial, a company I co-founded. On 9/11, I called Paul, a coworker, and he said, “Do you know what’s going on?”

“What’s going on?”

“Go watch a TV.”

I told him I didn’t have a TV, so he said, “Go find one.”

I went to this co-op not far from where I lived. There were about ten guys watching one of the World Trade towers burning. I looked at it. Then the fuckin’ thing collapsed! What the fuck is this?!

Bin Laden, fuckin’ Bin Laden, I wanted to kill Arabs now. What the fuck is going on?! I wanted to go and kill the people who did this.

Later, I heard about the beheading of a guy from Hillsdale, Michigan, not far from here, so I found a YouTube of it. I watched this guy cut the head off, then put it on the man’s back, and I just got sick. I was so overcome by feelings of hate, despair, anxiety, I had to leave the house. How do you process this?

In early 2003, Lockwood Financial had been sold, and I got some money, so I met with a banker. After we talked for a while, we went to lunch. I brought up 9/11 and said some hateful things about the Afghans and Bin Laden, so he said, “You know, three buildings collapsed at the World Trade Center that day.”

I said, “Why don’t I know that?”

He said, “It’s because nobody will say anything. They don’t want you to know.”

At home, I got on the internet and saw Building 7 falling down. I had seen controlled demolitions, and this was controlled demolition. Everybody in the world who sees this will say that it is controlled demolition, so we must do something, but it doesn’t work that way.

I started doing research. In 2005, Loose Change came out. I looked at that and thought, OK, this is going to convince anybody, so I phoned my brother. I said, “Paul, 9/11 was an inside job.”

He’s like, “What?!”

“It’s not what you think it is.”

“I can’t believe that. They wouldn’t do that to their own people.” Standard argument.

“Look, I’m sending you this video. Watch it and make up your own mind.”

Next day Paul called and said, “We’re all fucked.”

There is no way the official story is true. We’re all fucked.

I became obsessed by 9/11. I watched and read everything I could. Everything that has happened since 9/11 appeals to that, and it’s all false.

After I looked at Building 7, I went back and looked at the other two towers, and I thought, Of course, they’re not collapsing! They’re exploding! What’s wrong with me?! Look at that shit flying out!

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I’m going to get a bit technical here. Bear with me. During an unassisted gravitational collapse of a structure, the loss of gravitational potential energy is equal to the gain in kinetic energy. After the collapse has finished, all the potential energy the structure had before the collapse has been converted to kinetic energy, and a re-organization of a part of the universe has taken place. The assumption that destruction of the towers was simply a gravitational collapse implies that the totality of the driving force causing the collapse was pointing down. Since a massive amount of debris was thrown in trajectories arcing up and out at up to 70mph, the question arises: What potential energy was the source of that kinetic energy?

In 2010, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth had reached a thousand signatures, so they scheduled a press conference in San Francisco. I flew there to attend it. I wanted to see what would happen when the press get there, what would they do? Well, the press didn’t show up!

I did get to meet Richard Gage and David Ray Griffin.

By 2008, I had discovered Christopher Bollyn. He had written about 9/11 from the beginning, and Bollyn pointed to Israel. I thought, What does Israel have to do with this? I kept denying this for about a year, but what Bollyn was talking about, I was able to verify from many other sources. Bollyn was telling the truth.

I don’t want to be anti-Semitic, I thought. I don’t want to be thought of as anti-Semitic. You go through these stages, you know. Here I am trying to find out the truth, and I’m worried about being anti-Semitic?! It doesn’t make sense! The evidence points there, so that’s where I have to go.

It is the Israelis, with complicit elements in our government, which by that time I realized was run by Jews. I got onto the Zionist project. I thought, It has got to be Israeli intelligence, and American intelligence, together, running this operation. There’s no way around it.

In 2010, I met Henry Herskovitz at a protest against the bombing of Iran. I had read about Henry, the most vilified and hated person in Ann Arbor. Each Saturday for 13 years now, Henry leads a vigil outside the Beth Israel Synagogue. I joined him, and the more I went, the more I realized that what he was doing was very courageous and the right thing to do.

Muslims are bound together by strict obeisance to a religion. This is pretty much the only binding thing, so they really protect that well. They don’t want anything to touch the boundaries. Jews are bound together by identity politics. Henry is no longer a Jew.

Gilad Atzmon has come to Ann Arbor a couple of times. He actually interviewed me in front of the synagogue. He asked me, “Why are you here?” I said, “The rabbi has said that the congregation unanimously supports Israel. I’m opposed to people who support Israel, because I’m against genocide.”

No Jewish organization will call for the dismantling of Israel, so they’re all Zionist organizations.

The Holocaust is the core element in the foundation of Jewish power, of Zionism. Without that, the whole thing collapses. The same with 9/11. Once 9/11 goes, everything goes.

The Jews are unique in the way that they’ve suffered throughout history, there is no other suffering like that, and the Holocaust is the culmination of the suffering of the Jews. We’re still suffering, but you can’t ever erase that. That’s the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of the world, OK? That’s pure evil manifest. You rip that away, and they’re no different than anybody else. Jews have suffered, but so has everybody else.

The British could decode the Enigma machine, so they knew what the Germans were doing. There’s no mention of gas chambers. The Red Cross inspected the concentration camps, and there’s no mention of it. If there’s anything to the official narrative, there must be some documentation about gas chambers in the German archives, but nobody has found anything about it, and there’s nothing in the Russian archives.

Jews declared economic war on Germany, and they were having an effect. The Jews controlled higher education, media and the entertainment industry in Germany in the 30’s. They controlled much of the banking sector. Jews were fighting tooth and nail, economically, with whatever means they could, and Hitler said, “We’ve got to sort out this country, for the Germans,” and Germans supported him. Hitler revived the economy. He started Volkswagen and gave people jobs. Most Germans were elated.

The vigil has become the focal point of my week. I look forward to it. Sometimes people give me the finger. Sometimes they beep the horn and give me a thumb up.

My wife sometimes says, “Ummm, you’re always angry. Why?”

“It’s because of the state of the world. It’s the unconscious people of the world. I don’t understand why they don’t understand anything.”

She says, “Well, you just have to think about something else.”

Everything now is propaganda, even football games, and the intention of it all is to make us afraid. They’ve generated this fear that’s inside everybody, and it’s just there, ready. When they say you should be afraid of this, it hooks onto it, the fear is already there, they don’t have to generate it any more. It’s just incredible.

And the anger, all of the cops are angry now, all the time.

I know a survivalist in northern Michigan. He’s got a degree in chemical engineering. He does consulting one day a week and lives on almost nothing. He said, “People like me are going to take back the country when the revolution comes.”

I said, “You’re not going to do anything. You’ve got a gun, and they have all these huge weapons. They’re trained murderers.”

“They’re not going to shoot their own people.”

“You’re not their people! They’ll shoot at whoever they’re told to. This is what they’ve been trained to do.”

That’s what all the first person shooter video games are about. It’s the training vehicle, and the recruiting vehicle for the guys who go do that, especially the drone operators that sit in these places and kill people with drone rockets. They’ve never been on a battle field, but they’ve played a lot of video games.

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I don’t want to fly anywhere in the United States. If I have to go to the West Coast, I’ll drive there. I can’t stand the TSA. I don’t understand why people put up with them. Later this year, I’ll go to England to visit my daughter, so I’ll fly from Toronto.

Australian airports are OK. Hong Kong airport is OK. Leaving Heathrow once, I was pulled aside because they wanted to check my bag. There was a man and a woman. As the lady took things out, I asked her, “What are you looking for?”

“We don’t know.” They both spoke with a non-British accent, so they were immigrants. “We’re just looking for something dangerous.”

“Do you ever find anything?”

“No.”

“Do you know why you’re doing this?” She looked at me, and I said, “It’s because the United States government tells you you have to. They’re setting the rules. It’s because of 9/11, but 9/11 was an inside job.”

She said, “I know.”

They found nothing. We shook hands. As I was trying to figure out where to go next, which gate, a guy who was on his break came over and said, “I want to hear more about this.”

So I told him about Building 7. He didn’t know about it. It was 576 feet tall, with 47 stories, and it fell at about 20 past five in the afternoon. BBC News reported this 23 minutes before it happened. I told him about Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. He was really keen.

Chomsky is a smart guy, but I also think he’s a liar. He’s too smart to really believe what he said about 9/11.

I look up at the sky on a clear day and I see the chemtrails, and I think, Why are they doing that? Then I read about the various false flags, Sandy Hook, BostonMarathon, Orlando, etc., and it becomes clear to me pretty quickly that this is all bullshit.

Three weeks ago, Newsweek put out a special edition on Hitler. On the cover, there’s a picture of Hitler, with the caption, “CAN HIS EVIL LEGACY EVER BE DEFEATED?” Henry bought it. What he was looking for were gas chambers, because that’s the most evil thing in the world that has ever happened, because the most evil thing in history is the gassing of the Jews.

Henry said to me, “Will you read through this for me? I’m not sure I read it carefully enough. I don’t see any mention of gas chambers in there.”

I read it, cover to cover, all 98 pages. There are two pages, each half covered by pictures, about the concentration camps. There is no mention of any gas chamber. At the bottom of the first page, there is something about using “gas trucks” and firearms to kill Jews.

“gas trucks”

Henry said, “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.”

If the official narrative was accurate, they would certainly concentrate on that. Henry reckons maybe the revisionists are starting to have an effect. On scientific and historic terms, the argument is finished. The revisionists have won. There were no gas chambers.

Recently in Michigan, it became law that the official version of the Holocaust must be taught in all public schools. The Jews still have this myth going.

The gas chambers are the central part of the official narrative, just like the 19 hijackers are the central part of 9/11. Each of which is false.

Henry thinks we’re going to see a change in emphasis pretty soon. The Jews are going to change the story. They’re going to say, “Nah, nah, we really didn’t mean gas chambers.”

Recently, a woman in her mid-60’s showed up at our vigil, and she had a sign, “GOD BLESS ISRAEL.” In response, we now have a sign, “GOD BLESS AMERICA. DELIVER US FROM ISRAEL.” We’ve also made these bumper stickers, “AMERICA FIRST. NOT ISRAEL.”

A long time ago, I bought into the open border argument. Why should we have boundaries? They’re just political constructs. Gradually, I figured out that people want these boundaries because they’ve developed a social system which works for them.

In 2003, I visited my daughter in Reading, England. I walked around and saw all these Muslims, just sort of taking over. In the 80’s, I was already aware of the Muslim problem. There were lots of Chinese in Reading as well, but they assimilated. They spoke Chinese among each other, but English to everybody else, and the second-generation Chinese were just English. The Muslims tried to remake the social rules, and even the laws, to accommodate them.

The destruction of nationalism is a part of the Zionist program. It’s very subversive. They support diversity, every group just doing its own thing. The Zionist own thing, though, is to take over the world. They’re already dominating a huge chunk of it.

Linh Dinh is the author of two books of stories, five of poems, and a novel, Love Like Hate. He’s tracking our deteriorating socialscape through his frequently updated photo blog, Postcards from the End of America.

 
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  1. The first half of this article is a masterpiece. I had to wipe away tears.

    The second half turns toward politics, most of which I agree with, but then there is the chemtrails non-sequitur. I am a mechanical engineer who has worked in aerospace. I have also logged hundreds of airline round trips within the US. Under common thermodynamic conditions, commercial aircraft engines will produce water-vapor trails, and wingtip vortexes will sometimes produce something similar.

    If you have lived near an airport, you know that aircraft are horrible polluters of soot and noise (not to mention the fact that piston aircraft still use leaded AVGAS). I say tell government to tax the hell out of real pollution, but don’t promote nonsense which only serves to obscure real problems and discredit other unreported truths.

    Read More
    • Replies: @restless94110
    Dry your tears.

    And in the 2nd half? Just accept that maybe we need to look into it. As opposed to you being an arrogant turd because of your 1,000s of years of experience.

    After all, we never ever need to question the opinions (for they are little else than just opinions) of the experts like you.

    If we do, then we are racist, sexist, illogical, cretins who should never ever express feelings and opinions that differ from you and your ilk: the experts that have coninually misled us over and over and over again.
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  2. Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world. It is especially bad in those countries that are nothing more than kackocracies, which is most of Africa, and much of Latin America.

    The business of 9/11 being an inside job is a myth.

    The Chemtrail trash is just that, trash. What has been pointed out as chemtrails is nothing more than contrails which are produced by aircraft under conditions of relatively high humidity at altitude. Occasionally they will be produced a lower altitudes, but, I guess, condensed water vapor is a chemical, but as far as them being some sort of poison, that’s simply a clownish belief.

    The UK lost Hong Kong because Thatcher didn’t negotiate competently. China was quite happy with HK continuing as a crown colony. There was a strong symbiotic relationship between HK and mainland China that benefitted both. That was lost with the reversion of the city to China.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @woodNfish

    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world.
     
    Not unless you travel to one.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.
     
    So true, but may be an insult to rubbish.
    , @restless94110
    Anyone that has been out of the country knows that all around the world they believe that 9/11 was an inside job.

    Only an utterly stupid fool would say differently. A know nothing moron.

    A batshit crazy nincompoop.
    , @dninmore
    You, also, are a fool. The sky is blue and clean. Within moments, the first jets appear, laying a trial that is perfectly criss-crossed with intent - making an "X" in my sky. This is repeated, over and over until the haze, by mid-noon, grows and overwhelms. Within a day the rains begin. This is a technology that began in Vietnam. Stupidity, or the Jewish Prerogative, rules over us all.
    , @dninmore
    Yet another fool. Many here - speaks volumes about the readership.
    , @Craig Morris
    I don't know what really happened on 911, but the official explanations of building 7, the nice round hole at the Pentagon and the barren field at Shanksville, PA are all whoppers. You seem to know what really happened. Please explain.
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  3. Faust says:

    I don’t know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I am not a denier of anything, h. including.
    Discussion about the positions of those deniers or of those who insist
    reminds me old atheistic joke.

    A person just has been converted to Christianity.
    Next day he comes to a priest to express certain doubts.
    --- What are your doubts, my son?
    --- That J.C. fed five thousand people by five loaves of bread, I believe in.
    That they satisfied their hunger as a result, I doubt.
    That Holy Mary ... .
    I skip this part of the joke, I do not want to offend believers.
    And a number of similar positions,
    upon which he partially believes, and partially doubts.

    So the God or, to that matter, the devil is in the details:
    what are the particulars.

    , @restless94110
    No, science denier, compression cannot create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    You just made that up. No one has ever advanced such an ignorant theory.

    Because no one has wanted to be called utterly devoid of any rationality.

    Until there was you....
    , @dninmore
    Have you read Ernst Zundel, or are you too afraid to face the biggest lie known to man? Folks like you make me laugh at your unadulterated stupidity.
    , @Wally
    Wake up, sucker.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    www.codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    Jews have been marketing the '6,000,000' lie since 1869:

    http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k598/WhiteWolf722/TheSixMillionMyth.jpg
    , @NoseytheDuke
    Congratulations! You make Quartermaster appear smart.
    , @Art

    I don’t know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.
     
    Say Faust,

    It is interesting that the Jews now have to defend both the "holocaust" and 9/11.

    Things are getting more difficult for them.

    They now are also the main defenders of the US government both domestic and foreign. By the day, this too is getting harder and harder to accomplish.

    Art
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  4. unit472 says:

    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.
    People were on the phone with the police, their relatives, etc and their phone calls were even recorded and many of them are on line…if you can bare listening to a secretary roasting to death.None of them reported secondary explosions of the Loixeaux family business variety.

    Taking down a large building via a controlled demolition is a very precise engineering project. The structural beams have to be exposed and interior walls and concrete jackhammered away so the explosives can cut the steel in a precise sequence. It takes the Loixeaux family weeks to prepare a large building for demolition. To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.

    Read More
    • Replies: @restless94110
    The sad thing about 9-11 official story lunatics is that the only thing they have to "rely" on is that their "theory" totally depends on the recordings of dead people.

    No one of them in a recording (that the Bush Administration refused to release for 8 years until they were forced to) said there was an explosion?

    That "proves" that where were no explosions!

    You know? Do I really need to point out how stupid this line of reasoning is?

    I mean really? Are you a free thinking American?

    Or are you a fool?

    Which? Where is only one side you can be on.

    Which is it, fool? Oops. I gave away my first impressions of your comment: the comments of a fool.

    But there is still time to find what's left of your brain. Good luck!
    , @dninmore
    You are nothing more than a rube - a fool. Free fall occurs because there is no structure underneath - much like your brain - it was all blown away, prior to the event.
    , @utu
    "controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft." - You have to have a courage to believe your own eyes, then you do not to have invoke witchcraft.

    Here is Dutch demolition expert after watching video of WTC7 collapse for the first time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1Lh7lYMNo
    , @TJM
    Really, so to you it is far more likely that a plane crashing into a huge building that caused a fire will perfectly demolish 3 buildings?

    You believe a group of "Muslim terrorists", took over all these planes, with little training and flew them with great accuracy into these building?

    You believe a plane crashed into the Pentagon, even though there was NO discernible remnants of a plane to be seen at the site?

    You believe that a plane could get close to the Pentagon without being targeting by US defense forces?

    The point is, you make out like this being an inside job is so outrageous, but compared to the alternative, it is actually quite likely.

    America/Israel clandestine services have a LONG history of subversion, espionage, initiating false flags events, but the most damming evidence of this being an inside job, is the fact that they took this tragedy and were ready to use if to their advantage, LIKE IT WAS PLANNED!

    They pivoted from this terrorist (Deep State terrorism) attack, not to find the culprit, the Saudis, oh no, they used this to justify an attack upon IRAQ?!

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain. This tragedy was not turned into a event that unified the world to deal with terrorism, or the causes of it, quite the contrary, it was used to incite even more terrorism.

    In a world where CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other Zionist propaganda outlets are the sole source of information, your comments would seem reasonable, but we no longer live in the Zio-induced ignorant world. Now you comments are seen as the outlier, the deceiver, the mouth piece for those who wish to keep Americans in the dark.
    , @Rurik

    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.
     
    I've listened to a call from a women trapped in the building on that day, talking about the unbearable heat, and then the call was cut off, and it turned out that she died.

    My reaction wasn't to wonder why there were no sounds of explosions during the brief phone call, (there are a lot of videos and other evidence of explosions). My reaction was to wonder at the sheer horror those people experienced and the unimaginable evil of those who murdered them so callously.

    To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.
     
    rather, to believe that building seven fell the way it did because of office fires and vibrations- is to demonstrate a capacity for infinite gullibility and zero understanding of physics at the 'in your face' level.

    Anyone with half a brain looking at building seven collapsing can see it was brought down.
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  5. LD, this is a masterpiece. Period.

    Read More
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  6. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Faust
    I don't know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    I am not a denier of anything, h. including.
    Discussion about the positions of those deniers or of those who insist
    reminds me old atheistic joke.

    A person just has been converted to Christianity.
    Next day he comes to a priest to express certain doubts.
    — What are your doubts, my son?
    — That J.C. fed five thousand people by five loaves of bread, I believe in.
    That they satisfied their hunger as a result, I doubt.
    That Holy Mary … .
    I skip this part of the joke, I do not want to offend believers.
    And a number of similar positions,
    upon which he partially believes, and partially doubts.

    So the God or, to that matter, the devil is in the details:
    what are the particulars.

    Read More
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  7. woodNfish says:
    @Quartermaster
    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world. It is especially bad in those countries that are nothing more than kackocracies, which is most of Africa, and much of Latin America.

    The business of 9/11 being an inside job is a myth.

    The Chemtrail trash is just that, trash. What has been pointed out as chemtrails is nothing more than contrails which are produced by aircraft under conditions of relatively high humidity at altitude. Occasionally they will be produced a lower altitudes, but, I guess, condensed water vapor is a chemical, but as far as them being some sort of poison, that's simply a clownish belief.

    The UK lost Hong Kong because Thatcher didn't negotiate competently. China was quite happy with HK continuing as a crown colony. There was a strong symbiotic relationship between HK and mainland China that benefitted both. That was lost with the reversion of the city to China.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.

    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world.

    Not unless you travel to one.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.

    So true, but may be an insult to rubbish.

    Read More
    • Replies: @restless94110
    Q: why would a moron read a column that they think is rubbish?

    A: Because they are sub-human? Because why would a human being not have empathy? Why would a human be able to forgo: there but fortune go you go I?

    It's a question that I have stopped asking. There just seem to be so many of these inhumane husks of humanity out there now...

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  8. pyrrhus says:

    This post probably set a record for the number of 3d rails it touched…very courageous, at least!

    Read More
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  9. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @landlubber
    The first half of this article is a masterpiece. I had to wipe away tears.

    The second half turns toward politics, most of which I agree with, but then there is the chemtrails non-sequitur. I am a mechanical engineer who has worked in aerospace. I have also logged hundreds of airline round trips within the US. Under common thermodynamic conditions, commercial aircraft engines will produce water-vapor trails, and wingtip vortexes will sometimes produce something similar.

    If you have lived near an airport, you know that aircraft are horrible polluters of soot and noise (not to mention the fact that piston aircraft still use leaded AVGAS). I say tell government to tax the hell out of real pollution, but don't promote nonsense which only serves to obscure real problems and discredit other unreported truths.

    Dry your tears.

    And in the 2nd half? Just accept that maybe we need to look into it. As opposed to you being an arrogant turd because of your 1,000s of years of experience.

    After all, we never ever need to question the opinions (for they are little else than just opinions) of the experts like you.

    If we do, then we are racist, sexist, illogical, cretins who should never ever express feelings and opinions that differ from you and your ilk: the experts that have coninually misled us over and over and over again.

    Read More
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  10. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @Quartermaster
    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world. It is especially bad in those countries that are nothing more than kackocracies, which is most of Africa, and much of Latin America.

    The business of 9/11 being an inside job is a myth.

    The Chemtrail trash is just that, trash. What has been pointed out as chemtrails is nothing more than contrails which are produced by aircraft under conditions of relatively high humidity at altitude. Occasionally they will be produced a lower altitudes, but, I guess, condensed water vapor is a chemical, but as far as them being some sort of poison, that's simply a clownish belief.

    The UK lost Hong Kong because Thatcher didn't negotiate competently. China was quite happy with HK continuing as a crown colony. There was a strong symbiotic relationship between HK and mainland China that benefitted both. That was lost with the reversion of the city to China.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.

    Anyone that has been out of the country knows that all around the world they believe that 9/11 was an inside job.

    Only an utterly stupid fool would say differently. A know nothing moron.

    A batshit crazy nincompoop.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    You paint an interesting picture of yourself. One who conducts conversations on serious subjects with artogant insult and who travels the world taking statistically significant samples of opinion on 9/11. Pray tell Sir: which countries, how many people, what questions, what languages do you speak? I have spent time in about 30 countries since 9/11 and in hundreds of serious conversations i have failed to discover any evidence that "all round the world they believe 9/11 was an inside job". But maybe I didn't meet enough imams and nut cases.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  11. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @Faust
    I don't know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    No, science denier, compression cannot create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    You just made that up. No one has ever advanced such an ignorant theory.

    Because no one has wanted to be called utterly devoid of any rationality.

    Until there was you….

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    You do have a problem don't you? Have you ever persuaded anyone of anything important by calm rational argument? Have you ever achieved the status of trusted authority on anything?
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  12. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @unit472
    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.
    People were on the phone with the police, their relatives, etc and their phone calls were even recorded and many of them are on line...if you can bare listening to a secretary roasting to death.None of them reported secondary explosions of the Loixeaux family business variety.

    Taking down a large building via a controlled demolition is a very precise engineering project. The structural beams have to be exposed and interior walls and concrete jackhammered away so the explosives can cut the steel in a precise sequence. It takes the Loixeaux family weeks to prepare a large building for demolition. To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.

    The sad thing about 9-11 official story lunatics is that the only thing they have to “rely” on is that their “theory” totally depends on the recordings of dead people.

    No one of them in a recording (that the Bush Administration refused to release for 8 years until they were forced to) said there was an explosion?

    That “proves” that where were no explosions!

    You know? Do I really need to point out how stupid this line of reasoning is?

    I mean really? Are you a free thinking American?

    Or are you a fool?

    Which? Where is only one side you can be on.

    Which is it, fool? Oops. I gave away my first impressions of your comment: the comments of a fool.

    But there is still time to find what’s left of your brain. Good luck!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Are you not up to date with the well illustrated theory that the explosions, whether causing the steel cores to fail or just explaining the noises heard, were a result of molten aluminium and water coming together?
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  13. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @woodNfish

    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world.
     
    Not unless you travel to one.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.
     
    So true, but may be an insult to rubbish.

    Q: why would a moron read a column that they think is rubbish?

    A: Because they are sub-human? Because why would a human being not have empathy? Why would a human be able to forgo: there but fortune go you go I?

    It’s a question that I have stopped asking. There just seem to be so many of these inhumane husks of humanity out there now…

    Read More
    • Replies: @woodNfish

    why would a human being not have empathy?
     
    Q: Why would a gruber like you believe everything you read or hear on the LLSM "news"?
    A: That is why you are a gruber.

    The third world is the third world because that is what those people want. You cannot have empathy for every pathetic human being in the world. After spending trillions of dollars trying to raise Africa out of its third world state you would think that even a gruber like you might realize that.

    Lastly, the author posed his statement, "Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world.", as if one had to travel to a third world country to know they are poor and whatever else they are. (Backwards? Cultural Neadnderthals?) I responded in kind. But I don't hold our response against you. I know comprehension is lost on a gruber.
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  14. woodNfish says:
    @restless94110
    Q: why would a moron read a column that they think is rubbish?

    A: Because they are sub-human? Because why would a human being not have empathy? Why would a human be able to forgo: there but fortune go you go I?

    It's a question that I have stopped asking. There just seem to be so many of these inhumane husks of humanity out there now...

    why would a human being not have empathy?

    Q: Why would a gruber like you believe everything you read or hear on the LLSM “news”?
    A: That is why you are a gruber.

    The third world is the third world because that is what those people want. You cannot have empathy for every pathetic human being in the world. After spending trillions of dollars trying to raise Africa out of its third world state you would think that even a gruber like you might realize that.

    Lastly, the author posed his statement, “Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world.”, as if one had to travel to a third world country to know they are poor and whatever else they are. (Backwards? Cultural Neadnderthals?) I responded in kind. But I don’t hold our response against you. I know comprehension is lost on a gruber.

    Read More
    • Replies: @restless94110
    Q: What the fuck is a gruber? A: you just made up a jargon-y word.
    Q: What the fuck is an LLSM? A: you just made up another piece of jargon.

    Jargon is the refuge of arrogant fools. It says: we can talk in our own special language so you lowly people can't understand what we are saying. It makes us feel superior because we know special words and you don't.

    Messge to woodNhead: I don't believe anything I read or hear from anyone anywhere. I check things out. I listen to what people are saying. If what they say makes sense perhaps they can be trusted. If it does not? I don't believe it.

    I guess that's why I am a gruber.

    So, let's get to you: "The third world is the third world because that is what those people want." So those people want to be poor, starving, constantly insecure and at times at risk of death? People want that so we don't need to empathize with others of our species. Because in your world people in the third world are actually not people at all. They are animals of a different species than your species.

    Your species apparently believes that it can sit in a chair somewhere in a comfy house and can know everything it needs to know about the sufferring of the human race. No need to broaden itself by travel amongst the alien species: the human race.

    Q: what do you call a thing that is not of the human species, as evidenced by your comments? A: a goober.
    , @TJM
    "After spending trillions of dollars trying to raise Africa out of its third world state you would think that even a gruber like you might realize that".

    Are you serious?!

    America does not spend billions helping anyone, except Israel.

    American money is spend destabilizing, corrupting, bribing, assassinating, never helping or building nations of Africa.

    America is the number one arms dealer in the world, while at the same time, tirelessly fight to get guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, whats wrong with that picture?

    If you think the US government is out their to help, yet read this site which informs to the contrary, your certifiable.
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  15. dninmore says:
    @unit472
    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.
    People were on the phone with the police, their relatives, etc and their phone calls were even recorded and many of them are on line...if you can bare listening to a secretary roasting to death.None of them reported secondary explosions of the Loixeaux family business variety.

    Taking down a large building via a controlled demolition is a very precise engineering project. The structural beams have to be exposed and interior walls and concrete jackhammered away so the explosives can cut the steel in a precise sequence. It takes the Loixeaux family weeks to prepare a large building for demolition. To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.

    You are nothing more than a rube – a fool. Free fall occurs because there is no structure underneath – much like your brain – it was all blown away, prior to the event.

    Read More
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  16. dninmore says:
    @Quartermaster
    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world. It is especially bad in those countries that are nothing more than kackocracies, which is most of Africa, and much of Latin America.

    The business of 9/11 being an inside job is a myth.

    The Chemtrail trash is just that, trash. What has been pointed out as chemtrails is nothing more than contrails which are produced by aircraft under conditions of relatively high humidity at altitude. Occasionally they will be produced a lower altitudes, but, I guess, condensed water vapor is a chemical, but as far as them being some sort of poison, that's simply a clownish belief.

    The UK lost Hong Kong because Thatcher didn't negotiate competently. China was quite happy with HK continuing as a crown colony. There was a strong symbiotic relationship between HK and mainland China that benefitted both. That was lost with the reversion of the city to China.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.

    You, also, are a fool. The sky is blue and clean. Within moments, the first jets appear, laying a trial that is perfectly criss-crossed with intent – making an “X” in my sky. This is repeated, over and over until the haze, by mid-noon, grows and overwhelms. Within a day the rains begin. This is a technology that began in Vietnam. Stupidity, or the Jewish Prerogative, rules over us all.

    Read More
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  17. dninmore says:
    @Quartermaster
    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world. It is especially bad in those countries that are nothing more than kackocracies, which is most of Africa, and much of Latin America.

    The business of 9/11 being an inside job is a myth.

    The Chemtrail trash is just that, trash. What has been pointed out as chemtrails is nothing more than contrails which are produced by aircraft under conditions of relatively high humidity at altitude. Occasionally they will be produced a lower altitudes, but, I guess, condensed water vapor is a chemical, but as far as them being some sort of poison, that's simply a clownish belief.

    The UK lost Hong Kong because Thatcher didn't negotiate competently. China was quite happy with HK continuing as a crown colony. There was a strong symbiotic relationship between HK and mainland China that benefitted both. That was lost with the reversion of the city to China.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.

    Yet another fool. Many here – speaks volumes about the readership.

    Read More
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  18. dninmore says:
    @Faust
    I don't know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    Have you read Ernst Zundel, or are you too afraid to face the biggest lie known to man? Folks like you make me laugh at your unadulterated stupidity.

    Read More
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  19. You don’t necessarily get to choose who disagrees with you but if I could choose I would prefer them all to be really old for obvious reasons.

    And here I get my wish-see the photo provided.

    BTW because Building 7 collapsed much later than the 2 larger ones everyone in Building 7 survived. No one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "no one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd." - How do you know it. Did you talk to everybody? Actually there were some people who were in WTC7 prior to collapse and saw damage that indicated some explosions. Here is interview with Barry Jennings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tr0TZa3WeI who witnessed explosions while being in WTC7.
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  20. utu says:

    The Mathematician was a sleepwalker through most of his life. His education, the Ph.D and vast travel did not wake him up. He lived in many countries and had interesting and good experiences among Muslims yet after 9/11 was ready to have them bombed and killed. He has awaken but now he is a neophyte, so he has a tendency to proselytize. Also he is way too open and may end up accepting anything just because it is against some official narrative like for example the chemtrails. This again is some kind of sleepwalking.

    The hardest thing is to doubt while the easiest is to believe in something. Our brains are constructed in a way that they must believe and doubts are only brief and fleeting. We live in psychological state of knowing while the state of conscious unknowing is the hardest thing to achieve. But one must to learn to be in a permanent doubt as long as there is no evidence.

    Anyway, I like this piece and I think I would like this guy but I suspect he still is in some somnambulic state but his heart is in a right place.

    Read More
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  21. utu says:
    @anony-mouse
    You don't necessarily get to choose who disagrees with you but if I could choose I would prefer them all to be really old for obvious reasons.

    And here I get my wish-see the photo provided.

    BTW because Building 7 collapsed much later than the 2 larger ones everyone in Building 7 survived. No one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd.

    “no one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd.” – How do you know it. Did you talk to everybody? Actually there were some people who were in WTC7 prior to collapse and saw damage that indicated some explosions. Here is interview with Barry Jennings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tr0TZa3WeI who witnessed explosions while being in WTC7.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    I agree.

    How can anyone make such a statement as “no one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd.”

    There is some amazing stuff going on in the skulls of the faithful.
    , @anony-mouse
    https://septembermyths.wordpress.com/world-trade-center/wtc-7-and-the-barry-jennings-story/
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  22. utu says:
    @unit472
    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.
    People were on the phone with the police, their relatives, etc and their phone calls were even recorded and many of them are on line...if you can bare listening to a secretary roasting to death.None of them reported secondary explosions of the Loixeaux family business variety.

    Taking down a large building via a controlled demolition is a very precise engineering project. The structural beams have to be exposed and interior walls and concrete jackhammered away so the explosives can cut the steel in a precise sequence. It takes the Loixeaux family weeks to prepare a large building for demolition. To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.

    “controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.” – You have to have a courage to believe your own eyes, then you do not to have invoke witchcraft.

    Here is Dutch demolition expert after watching video of WTC7 collapse for the first time:

    Read More
    • Replies: @boogerbently
    I don't speak Dutch.
    This guy could be ANYONE, saying ANYTHING.
    I mean, just to follow the "conspiracy theory" angle to conclusion.
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  23. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website

    Well, it’s a good thing that some people deviate from the official narrative, but why do they go so far? It’s one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.

    Same thing with Holocaust Revision. It goes from sensible skepticism of official history to some ironclad belief that the official history must be entirely bunk and there was no killing of Jews at all or some such.

    This talk of false flag at Sandy Hook, chem-trails, and etc. And building #7. Wow.

    This is why most people stick with official narrative. Skepticism may begin healthy and interesting but soon gives over to new absolutes by conspiracy theorists. Those who are ultra-skeptical of official narrative tend to be super-gullible for the alternative narrative.

    Why do we see this phenom over and over?

    I think it has to do with psychology and personality. Consider religion. Some people are satisfied with moderate faith in God. But some people must have more. They must have total faith in God, they must feel God in their souls… like the crazy mother in CARRIE. Religious fanaticism appeals to people of certain personality who must have MORE. They must be pure in faith.
    It’s like food. Majority of people are satisfied with enough food. But some people must have more. They are gluttonous. They must eat and eat and fill themselves like pigs.
    Or look at sex. Majority are happy with enough. But guys like Clinton must have more and more and more. He’s pud-crazy. He’s a fanadick. Enough is never enough for people with such personalities.

    We see the same thing with people for whom healthy and critical skepticism isn’t enough. It’s not satisfying. Skepticism means too many unanswered questions. Too many uncertainties.
    Paradoxically, the conspiracy theorists tend to be both radically rebellious and radically obedient. They tend to reject whatever happens to be the official narrative. But they surrender totally to the new alternative narrative. They go from “official 9/11 narrative may be wrong” to “this theory of what really happened is totally right”.

    This is why one cannot talk reason to such people. They may be secular and even intelligent. But their personalities call for strong medicine, hard truths, absolutes. The problem with officialdom in a Liberal Democracy is it’s usually the product of compromise of middle-of-the-road sort. Such middling officialdom isn’t satisfying to those who want Old Time Religion or New Time Reason. Old Time Religion or New Time Reason, the appeal is in the fundie or radical conviction of absolutism.

    Some people are obedient and fanatical. Such people don’t mind groveling to the Ruling Power and swallowing the Narrative.
    Some people are rebellious and libertine. Such people refuse to grovel to the Ruling Power and don’t need some strong faith or medicine in anything. They just want to be free.
    Some people are rebellious and fanatical. They love to mock and attack the system.. but they hunger for a new system of absolute truth. They reject one god but demand another god.

    This is the appeal of Holocaust Denial and why you cannot argue with its adherents. It’s not so much their lack of intelligence or sanity. It’s that they have rebellious and fanatical personalities. They like to rebel against the status quo, but they don’t feel comfortable with freedom and critical individuality. So, they seek a new panacea, a new theory or cause that is absolute in its truth. They reject the comfort of officialdom but seek new comforts of radical absolutism.

    For Holocaust Deniers, the Act of Denial is like strong religious faith. Being skeptical of official claims is too vague, confusing, and challenging. How better to know with total certainty that the Holocaust didn’t happen. Hallelujah.

    It seems like the individuals covered by Dinh have that kind of personalities. They are smart and even sane. But their personalities hunger for strong faith, a New Time Reason, a secular version of Old Time Religion.
    Even as they take pride in being intelligent and skeptical enough to reject and disbelieve the official narrative, they baptize themselves in the certainties of all these conspiracy theories.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    I have see-eeeen the light.

    I repent. I been saaaaved.

    I hereby pledge my faith in the Holy Trinity: Priss Factory, Dominique Francon, and Anonymny.

    I believe!! I do Believe!!



    (PS Priss: you missed that line where Rudy said:

    I don’t want to be anti-Semitic, I thought. I don’t want to be thought of as anti-Semitic. You go through these stages, you know. Here I am trying to find out the truth, and I’m worried about being anti-Semitic?! It doesn’t make sense! The evidence points there, so that’s where I have to go.
     
    Maybe you cruised past that whole "go where the evidence points" thing because it doesn't fit your armchair schlockology. )
    , @Rurik

    It’s one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.
     
    what narrative are you talking about Priss?

    I've perused many truther sites and to this day I don't know of one that claims to know exactly how those buildings were brought down on that day or who exactly brought them down. All they say is that the official version is pure bullshit. And they have several members of the official 911 commission on their side.

    So who are these people with their iron clad narrative?

    What we all know is that it would have been impossible for the BBC and Fox News to know building seven was going to fall before it did, unless someone who knew it provided those news organizations with a written script for its collapse. (And that someone was not Bin Laden).

    We all know that the Israeli government had Mossad agents set up cameras to "document the event" on that day. And so that means that certain Israelis at the highest levels knew about the attack.

    We know that.

    Most other things are speculation, but one can extrapolate certain things based on what we all know.

    We all know that certain elements inside our government wanted a pretext to destroy countries in the middle east that were inconvenient to Israel's wider agenda. This we know, because they wrote papers on the subject, and men like Dick Cheney were not just members of PNAC or the CFR, but were its director too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJZSTJJuPk

    we know many things at this point. We know they wanted a "new Pearl Harbor" like event to catalyze the US public for war. We know this because they stated it.

    We know it was none other than Philip Zelikow who wrote an article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, entitled CATASTROPHIC TERRORISM: Imagining the Transformative Event. And then it was none other than this same Zionist and Israeli citizen who went on to be the executive director of the 911 Commission Report. Isn't that something? They had an Israeli citizen and uber-Zionist who had called for the kind of thing that happened on 911 to happen, investigate the event when it finally did miraculously happen just as he had openly hoped for.

    Do they think we're all that fucking stupid?

    Why yes, yes they do.

    And the truth be told, in many cases, they're quite right.
    , @dninmore
    What does "freedom" or "individuality" have to do with the fact that there were no homicidal gas chambers?
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  24. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @woodNfish

    why would a human being not have empathy?
     
    Q: Why would a gruber like you believe everything you read or hear on the LLSM "news"?
    A: That is why you are a gruber.

    The third world is the third world because that is what those people want. You cannot have empathy for every pathetic human being in the world. After spending trillions of dollars trying to raise Africa out of its third world state you would think that even a gruber like you might realize that.

    Lastly, the author posed his statement, "Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world.", as if one had to travel to a third world country to know they are poor and whatever else they are. (Backwards? Cultural Neadnderthals?) I responded in kind. But I don't hold our response against you. I know comprehension is lost on a gruber.

    Q: What the fuck is a gruber? A: you just made up a jargon-y word.
    Q: What the fuck is an LLSM? A: you just made up another piece of jargon.

    Jargon is the refuge of arrogant fools. It says: we can talk in our own special language so you lowly people can’t understand what we are saying. It makes us feel superior because we know special words and you don’t.

    Messge to woodNhead: I don’t believe anything I read or hear from anyone anywhere. I check things out. I listen to what people are saying. If what they say makes sense perhaps they can be trusted. If it does not? I don’t believe it.

    I guess that’s why I am a gruber.

    So, let’s get to you: “The third world is the third world because that is what those people want.” So those people want to be poor, starving, constantly insecure and at times at risk of death? People want that so we don’t need to empathize with others of our species. Because in your world people in the third world are actually not people at all. They are animals of a different species than your species.

    Your species apparently believes that it can sit in a chair somewhere in a comfy house and can know everything it needs to know about the sufferring of the human race. No need to broaden itself by travel amongst the alien species: the human race.

    Q: what do you call a thing that is not of the human species, as evidenced by your comments? A: a goober.

    Read More
    • Replies: @woodNfish
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Gruber_%28economist%29
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/mit-economist-jonathan-gruber-had-bigger-role-in-health-law-emails-show-1434910195

    LLSM - Lying Lame Stream Media
    , @annamaria
    He is just a provocateur enjoying his littering the UnzReviw with little petards. It is not difficult to spot the defenders of Israel on this site. The detours and fake high-brow blowiating are their strategy.
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  25. Wally says: • Website
    @Faust
    I don't know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    Wake up, sucker.

    The ’6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers’ are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the ‘holocaust’ scam debunked here:
    http://www.codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:

    http://forum.codoh.com

    Jews have been marketing the ’6,000,000′ lie since 1869:

    Read More
    • Replies: @TJM
    Nice research.

    As is often the case, its how determined that someone fights to defend the lie, that lets you know its a lie.

    The truth does not need defending, people often know it when they see it. Its the lies that need defending, the lies that just don't seem to add up.

    In much of Europe, as we know, its a crime to deny the holocaust. That sounds pretty strongly defending to me. I mean, if someone does not want to believe it, that's their business, but the Jews need this lie to continue, to insure their ability to manipulate the masses with guilt.

    I don't know the number of Jews killed in WW2, all I do know is that I have seen/read Jews lie as easily as the rest of us breath. Nothing would surprise me anymore, and that is very sad for the Jewish population.
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  26. Personally, I don’t care if L. Dinh shares the views of his subject or not. All of this criticism about Dinh’s rubbish.. the most I would critique him for is how his subjects just seem to ramble on and on and always seem to talk about the most conspiracy-est stuff. Of course, when you have a conspiracy theory, and someone is open to listening, it’s hard not to talk about it – so I assume that Dinh’s articles are really just evidence of how much rapport he builds with his subjects. But, it’s a style, and the article is a condensed version of the interview, we assume Dinh isn’t just writing fan fiction for Unz.com.

    Mr. Dinh, I would be very interested to see an interview of some middle class leftists, say an elementary school teacher or a protestant preacher. It might be harder to pin them down, and they’re very skittish about crimethink, but you never know. Then again, it could just be incredibly banal and painful to read. Lower class leftists could be interesting as well, but they might not have enough independence of thought to interview..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I agree that Linh Dinh obviously has a great talent as a sympathetic (seeming) listener, maybe positive charm and gives us the benefit of perhaps the equivalent of a great old-fashioned novelist's introduction to an unfamiiar part of one's world - with the bonus of its being actually true at least for one tiny snapshot.
    , @anon
    he never talks to these people because they dont exist. its a literary device. these are lin dins thoughts that he is too ashamed to take credit for outright , even using a pseudonym.
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  27. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    One of my favorite posts of the year from thus site. We’ll done.

    Read More
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  28. @Priss Factor
    Well, it's a good thing that some people deviate from the official narrative, but why do they go so far? It's one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.

    Same thing with Holocaust Revision. It goes from sensible skepticism of official history to some ironclad belief that the official history must be entirely bunk and there was no killing of Jews at all or some such.

    This talk of false flag at Sandy Hook, chem-trails, and etc. And building #7. Wow.

    This is why most people stick with official narrative. Skepticism may begin healthy and interesting but soon gives over to new absolutes by conspiracy theorists. Those who are ultra-skeptical of official narrative tend to be super-gullible for the alternative narrative.

    Why do we see this phenom over and over?

    I think it has to do with psychology and personality. Consider religion. Some people are satisfied with moderate faith in God. But some people must have more. They must have total faith in God, they must feel God in their souls... like the crazy mother in CARRIE. Religious fanaticism appeals to people of certain personality who must have MORE. They must be pure in faith.
    It's like food. Majority of people are satisfied with enough food. But some people must have more. They are gluttonous. They must eat and eat and fill themselves like pigs.
    Or look at sex. Majority are happy with enough. But guys like Clinton must have more and more and more. He's pud-crazy. He's a fanadick. Enough is never enough for people with such personalities.

    We see the same thing with people for whom healthy and critical skepticism isn't enough. It's not satisfying. Skepticism means too many unanswered questions. Too many uncertainties.
    Paradoxically, the conspiracy theorists tend to be both radically rebellious and radically obedient. They tend to reject whatever happens to be the official narrative. But they surrender totally to the new alternative narrative. They go from "official 9/11 narrative may be wrong" to "this theory of what really happened is totally right".

    This is why one cannot talk reason to such people. They may be secular and even intelligent. But their personalities call for strong medicine, hard truths, absolutes. The problem with officialdom in a Liberal Democracy is it's usually the product of compromise of middle-of-the-road sort. Such middling officialdom isn't satisfying to those who want Old Time Religion or New Time Reason. Old Time Religion or New Time Reason, the appeal is in the fundie or radical conviction of absolutism.

    Some people are obedient and fanatical. Such people don't mind groveling to the Ruling Power and swallowing the Narrative.
    Some people are rebellious and libertine. Such people refuse to grovel to the Ruling Power and don't need some strong faith or medicine in anything. They just want to be free.
    Some people are rebellious and fanatical. They love to mock and attack the system.. but they hunger for a new system of absolute truth. They reject one god but demand another god.

    This is the appeal of Holocaust Denial and why you cannot argue with its adherents. It's not so much their lack of intelligence or sanity. It's that they have rebellious and fanatical personalities. They like to rebel against the status quo, but they don't feel comfortable with freedom and critical individuality. So, they seek a new panacea, a new theory or cause that is absolute in its truth. They reject the comfort of officialdom but seek new comforts of radical absolutism.

    For Holocaust Deniers, the Act of Denial is like strong religious faith. Being skeptical of official claims is too vague, confusing, and challenging. How better to know with total certainty that the Holocaust didn't happen. Hallelujah.

    It seems like the individuals covered by Dinh have that kind of personalities. They are smart and even sane. But their personalities hunger for strong faith, a New Time Reason, a secular version of Old Time Religion.
    Even as they take pride in being intelligent and skeptical enough to reject and disbelieve the official narrative, they baptize themselves in the certainties of all these conspiracy theories.

    I have see-eeeen the light.

    I repent. I been saaaaved.

    I hereby pledge my faith in the Holy Trinity: Priss Factory, Dominique Francon, and Anonymny.

    I believe!! I do Believe!!

    (PS Priss: you missed that line where Rudy said:

    I don’t want to be anti-Semitic, I thought. I don’t want to be thought of as anti-Semitic. You go through these stages, you know. Here I am trying to find out the truth, and I’m worried about being anti-Semitic?! It doesn’t make sense! The evidence points there, so that’s where I have to go.

    Maybe you cruised past that whole “go where the evidence points” thing because it doesn’t fit your armchair schlockology. )

    Read More
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  29. Rehmat says:

    This reminds me of American Mathematics professor Jeffrey Lang.

    I attended his lecture by professor Jeffrey Lang in downtown Toronto a few years ago. He started his lecture with story of his bitter childhood – growing up in a Roman Catholic family with an abusive and alcoholic father who regularly beat his wife, a mother of his five children – brought tears to my eyes.

    Young Lang, at the age of 16 while studying at a Catholic school turned into an atheist. He start hating his Christian God like he hated his violent father. Questions like “if there is a God, and He is all merciful and all loving, then why is there suffering on this earth? Why does not He just take us to heaven? Why create all these people to suffer?” began bothering him.

    However, his life took a huge turn when at the age of 20 he started studying Holy Qur’an – a copy of which was gifted to him by one of his friends at the University of Kansas, Mahmoud Qandeel. Lang found answers to all his questions he used to challenge people who believe in a Supreme Power, Allah, G-d, God or Bhagwan.

    As a young lecturer in Mathematics at San Francisco University, Lang found his religion where God is finally a reality. That was shown to him by a few of the Muslim friends he had met at the university. “We talked about religion. I asked them my questions, and I was really surprised by how carefully they had thought out their answers,” Lang said.

    https://rehmat1.com/2012/04/27/dr-jeffrey-lang-and-holy-quran/

    Read More
    • Replies: @anonymous
    f*&k off Rehmat

    if the only way you can sell Islam is by running down what other people believe, you and the creed you're selling are failures.

    personally myself, I don't think Islam is a failure. I think it's got profound things to say.

    so it must be you.
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  30. @restless94110
    The sad thing about 9-11 official story lunatics is that the only thing they have to "rely" on is that their "theory" totally depends on the recordings of dead people.

    No one of them in a recording (that the Bush Administration refused to release for 8 years until they were forced to) said there was an explosion?

    That "proves" that where were no explosions!

    You know? Do I really need to point out how stupid this line of reasoning is?

    I mean really? Are you a free thinking American?

    Or are you a fool?

    Which? Where is only one side you can be on.

    Which is it, fool? Oops. I gave away my first impressions of your comment: the comments of a fool.

    But there is still time to find what's left of your brain. Good luck!

    Are you not up to date with the well illustrated theory that the explosions, whether causing the steel cores to fail or just explaining the noises heard, were a result of molten aluminium and water coming together?

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Yes Wiz, water and aluminium mixed together not only melt thick steel but also keep it molten for weeks on end.

    Your contributions to this site are surely appreciated by all genuine lovers of comedy.
    , @restless94110
    No, I am not up-to-date with the totally-made-up "theory" that water and molton aluminum can cause steel cores to fail all at once on every single floor, or that water and aluminum coming together could explain the hundreds of synchronized explosion heard by hundreds of witnesses.

    If you think about it for more than 10 seconds, like I just did, you would realize that even if some "theory" existed it would still not be relevant.

    The laws of physics necessitate removal by some means the foundations of a building's structure. For the building to fall into its own footprint that removal must be even across the building's girth and it must be syncrhonized to take out the undergirding structure completely. Else the building does not fell down, it will fall over.

    Random water combining with random molton aluminum does not explain the symetry.....because it is random.
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  31. woodNfish says:
    @restless94110
    Q: What the fuck is a gruber? A: you just made up a jargon-y word.
    Q: What the fuck is an LLSM? A: you just made up another piece of jargon.

    Jargon is the refuge of arrogant fools. It says: we can talk in our own special language so you lowly people can't understand what we are saying. It makes us feel superior because we know special words and you don't.

    Messge to woodNhead: I don't believe anything I read or hear from anyone anywhere. I check things out. I listen to what people are saying. If what they say makes sense perhaps they can be trusted. If it does not? I don't believe it.

    I guess that's why I am a gruber.

    So, let's get to you: "The third world is the third world because that is what those people want." So those people want to be poor, starving, constantly insecure and at times at risk of death? People want that so we don't need to empathize with others of our species. Because in your world people in the third world are actually not people at all. They are animals of a different species than your species.

    Your species apparently believes that it can sit in a chair somewhere in a comfy house and can know everything it needs to know about the sufferring of the human race. No need to broaden itself by travel amongst the alien species: the human race.

    Q: what do you call a thing that is not of the human species, as evidenced by your comments? A: a goober.
    Read More
    • Replies: @restless94110
    I don't need you to provide your own personal dictionary that deciphers your jargon.

    I didn't mention in my previous reply that jargon is also used by those in a field that are speaking with their peers in the field as a type of shortcut to communicating with each other: jargon words can shorten and speed communication between people who are in the field where the jargon words would be understood.

    Your gruber made up word and your llsm made-up achronym mean nothing to me even if they mean something to you, which it is apparent are only for you to use the ad hominem logical fallacy in your reply to me.

    I am a "gruber" meaning my points are untrue. No. I could be Josef Stalin, but what I say, my reasoning, is still either logical and true or not based on the logic and background of what I say, not what my name is.

    Even if I was a proven liar of 1000 lies, you'd still need to look at my reasoning to determine if it had validity or not.

    You are one of the many who has the fatal illness called snarkism. You snark this and snark that and then thing you pwned someone.

    All you did was to reveal yourself to be full of snark and empty of intellect.
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  32. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    This reminds me of American Mathematics professor Jeffrey Lang.

    I attended his lecture by professor Jeffrey Lang in downtown Toronto a few years ago. He started his lecture with story of his bitter childhood – growing up in a Roman Catholic family with an abusive and alcoholic father who regularly beat his wife, a mother of his five children – brought tears to my eyes.

    Young Lang, at the age of 16 while studying at a Catholic school turned into an atheist. He start hating his Christian God like he hated his violent father. Questions like “if there is a God, and He is all merciful and all loving, then why is there suffering on this earth? Why does not He just take us to heaven? Why create all these people to suffer?” began bothering him.

    However, his life took a huge turn when at the age of 20 he started studying Holy Qur’an – a copy of which was gifted to him by one of his friends at the University of Kansas, Mahmoud Qandeel. Lang found answers to all his questions he used to challenge people who believe in a Supreme Power, Allah, G-d, God or Bhagwan.

    As a young lecturer in Mathematics at San Francisco University, Lang found his religion where God is finally a reality. That was shown to him by a few of the Muslim friends he had met at the university. “We talked about religion. I asked them my questions, and I was really surprised by how carefully they had thought out their answers,” Lang said.

    https://rehmat1.com/2012/04/27/dr-jeffrey-lang-and-holy-quran/

    https://youtu.be/3H_C0BMyGCA

    f*&k off Rehmat

    if the only way you can sell Islam is by running down what other people believe, you and the creed you’re selling are failures.

    personally myself, I don’t think Islam is a failure. I think it’s got profound things to say.

    so it must be you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    Hi coward Jew hiding behind anonymous ID.

    I have read your filthy Talmud which not only hates humans but animals also.

    Israel daily YNet reported on June 16, 2011 that a Jerusalem rabbinical court recently sentenced a wandering dog (considered an impure animal by Halacha) to death by stoning. The cruel sentence stemmed from the suspicion that the spirit of a famous secular lawyer, who insulted the court’s judges 20 years ago, had been transferred into the dog’s body.

    The judgement was probably based on Exodus 21:28: “If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible”.

    https://rehmat1.com/2011/06/17/israeli-dog-sentenced-to-death-by-stoning/
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  33. @restless94110
    Anyone that has been out of the country knows that all around the world they believe that 9/11 was an inside job.

    Only an utterly stupid fool would say differently. A know nothing moron.

    A batshit crazy nincompoop.

    You paint an interesting picture of yourself. One who conducts conversations on serious subjects with artogant insult and who travels the world taking statistically significant samples of opinion on 9/11. Pray tell Sir: which countries, how many people, what questions, what languages do you speak? I have spent time in about 30 countries since 9/11 and in hundreds of serious conversations i have failed to discover any evidence that “all round the world they believe 9/11 was an inside job”. But maybe I didn’t meet enough imams and nut cases.

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    • Replies: @Stephen Douglas
    What I can say, Wiz, is stop talking to your fellow spooks when you travel abroad. It should take you about 15 seconds on Google to find hundreds of polls over the last 15 years that doubt the official story.

    I have not gone back to my original reply to verify if I said the words inside job, but if I did let me correct myself (and you as well) and say that a majority of the world and the US poplulation doubt the official story.

    Furthermore, it is not arrogant to speak the truth in a direct matter. And I don't have to travel the world doing a statistical survey. I can simply turn to google and examine the hundreds of surveys done.

    And as Linh's interviewee relates his experience in Heathrow, more people than you would think realize the obvious: the official story does not stand up logically, scientifically, politically, and they reject it. That they don't go around wearing sandwich boards proclaiming it, does not make it any less true.

    It is the reality, Wiz, perhaps you should come out from behind that curtain of illusion you use to hide from the obvious.
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  34. @restless94110
    No, science denier, compression cannot create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    You just made that up. No one has ever advanced such an ignorant theory.

    Because no one has wanted to be called utterly devoid of any rationality.

    Until there was you....

    You do have a problem don’t you? Have you ever persuaded anyone of anything important by calm rational argument? Have you ever achieved the status of trusted authority on anything?

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Ultimately, how is Stephen Douglas's categorization of people who do- vs people who do not believe the dogmatized narrative re 9/11 differ, in essence, from anonymity's categorization of people who do- and people who do not- believe, trust, swallow whole etc. the dogmatized narrative of holocaustism?

    The only differences I see are of style and number of pixels consumed.
    , @restless94110
    The problem I have is when the ignorant pretend that they are learned and reserved while spouting totally irrational nonsense.

    What I have done or not done, what I have acheieved or not has absolutely nothing to do with the fallacies of the official story of 9-11.

    Try to stay focused.
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  35. TJM says:
    @unit472
    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.
    People were on the phone with the police, their relatives, etc and their phone calls were even recorded and many of them are on line...if you can bare listening to a secretary roasting to death.None of them reported secondary explosions of the Loixeaux family business variety.

    Taking down a large building via a controlled demolition is a very precise engineering project. The structural beams have to be exposed and interior walls and concrete jackhammered away so the explosives can cut the steel in a precise sequence. It takes the Loixeaux family weeks to prepare a large building for demolition. To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.

    Really, so to you it is far more likely that a plane crashing into a huge building that caused a fire will perfectly demolish 3 buildings?

    You believe a group of “Muslim terrorists”, took over all these planes, with little training and flew them with great accuracy into these building?

    You believe a plane crashed into the Pentagon, even though there was NO discernible remnants of a plane to be seen at the site?

    You believe that a plane could get close to the Pentagon without being targeting by US defense forces?

    The point is, you make out like this being an inside job is so outrageous, but compared to the alternative, it is actually quite likely.

    America/Israel clandestine services have a LONG history of subversion, espionage, initiating false flags events, but the most damming evidence of this being an inside job, is the fact that they took this tragedy and were ready to use if to their advantage, LIKE IT WAS PLANNED!

    They pivoted from this terrorist (Deep State terrorism) attack, not to find the culprit, the Saudis, oh no, they used this to justify an attack upon IRAQ?!

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain. This tragedy was not turned into a event that unified the world to deal with terrorism, or the causes of it, quite the contrary, it was used to incite even more terrorism.

    In a world where CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other Zionist propaganda outlets are the sole source of information, your comments would seem reasonable, but we no longer live in the Zio-induced ignorant world. Now you comments are seen as the outlier, the deceiver, the mouth piece for those who wish to keep Americans in the dark.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    You could write a loony tune. False flag! False flag! There is no false flag like a Zio false flag!
    Are you trying to usurp J Revusky who is the Unz Minister of False Flags?
    , @SolontoCroesus

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain.
     
    Edwin Black wrote in The Transfer Agreement that "Zionist Jews returned from Versailles with a dual triumph: they acquired a homeland for Jews in Palestine, and guarantee of rights of Jews in Europe. "

    USA was a major beneficiary of WWI: it held most of the gold and controlled almost all of the finance of major European states.

    USA, Jews & Jewish creeds & ideologies were the major beneficiaries of WWII: USA stole much of Germany's gold; tons of Germany's patents/ intellectual property; German scientists -- best in the world at the time --were offered a deal: come to USA, live long & prosper, or rot or be hanged. After Germany was thoroughly looted, by USA as well as the Russians, Jews looted Russia's intellectual and economic capital.
    You never hear about all the German art work & cultural artifacts that made their way to USA, but the people who stole it know, and so do the people who control the German archive in Washington, DC. (Film at 11:00 in 2096). USA post-war economic prosperity was boosted by war spending; major boost by supplying materiel etc. to rebuild the German (and French & Italian) towns that Allies bombed to rubble -- how generous, that Marshall Plan, don't you agree?--

    They pivoted from this terrorist (Deep State terrorism) attack, not to find the culprit, the Saudis, oh no, they used this to justify an attack upon IRAQ?!

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain. This tragedy was not turned into a event that unified the world to deal with terrorism, or the causes of it, quite the contrary, it was used to incite even more terrorism.
     
    They couldn't possibly use the event to "deal with terrorism . . . or the causes of it" because they are the terrorists and the causes of eruptions of terrorism, which some people call defending one's homeland and culture, and have been since at least 1905.
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  36. @utu
    "no one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd." - How do you know it. Did you talk to everybody? Actually there were some people who were in WTC7 prior to collapse and saw damage that indicated some explosions. Here is interview with Barry Jennings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tr0TZa3WeI who witnessed explosions while being in WTC7.

    I agree.

    How can anyone make such a statement as “no one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd.”

    There is some amazing stuff going on in the skulls of the faithful.

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  37. TJM says:
    @Wally
    Wake up, sucker.

    The '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers' are scientifically impossible frauds.
    see the 'holocaust' scam debunked here:
    www.codoh.com
    No name calling, level playing field debate here:
    http://forum.codoh.com

    Jews have been marketing the '6,000,000' lie since 1869:

    http://i1117.photobucket.com/albums/k598/WhiteWolf722/TheSixMillionMyth.jpg

    Nice research.

    As is often the case, its how determined that someone fights to defend the lie, that lets you know its a lie.

    The truth does not need defending, people often know it when they see it. Its the lies that need defending, the lies that just don’t seem to add up.

    In much of Europe, as we know, its a crime to deny the holocaust. That sounds pretty strongly defending to me. I mean, if someone does not want to believe it, that’s their business, but the Jews need this lie to continue, to insure their ability to manipulate the masses with guilt.

    I don’t know the number of Jews killed in WW2, all I do know is that I have seen/read Jews lie as easily as the rest of us breath. Nothing would surprise me anymore, and that is very sad for the Jewish population.

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  38. @Wizard of Oz
    You do have a problem don't you? Have you ever persuaded anyone of anything important by calm rational argument? Have you ever achieved the status of trusted authority on anything?

    Ultimately, how is Stephen Douglas’s categorization of people who do- vs people who do not believe the dogmatized narrative re 9/11 differ, in essence, from anonymity’s categorization of people who do- and people who do not- believe, trust, swallow whole etc. the dogmatized narrative of holocaustism?

    The only differences I see are of style and number of pixels consumed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @restless94110
    You know, the man that Linh interviewed has only said one thing about the holocaust: where are the gas chambers? He is saying there is no evidence they existed, and that some historical accounts that appear to be "official" do not mention them at all.

    Is this true?

    It either is or it isn't. In other words, if it is not true, then it should be very easy to find detailed, verified accounts of gas chambers and/or verified physical evidence that they existed.

    Then the man could be proved to be wrong.

    He appears to be a very learned, well-travelled, successful business man and academic, which would imply that he is someone who draws conclusions from evidence or the lack of evidence.

    While I don't know that much about what he is saying about the Holocause, I do know quite a lot about the 9-11 events and his reasoning is sound in that area.

    That would infer that his reasoning is probably sound on the Holocaust topic.

    But, again, he is basing his reasoning on one thing: where are the accounts and evidence of gas chambers?

    And again, if there is evidence, then his conclusions can be proven wrong.
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  39. TJM says:
    @woodNfish

    why would a human being not have empathy?
     
    Q: Why would a gruber like you believe everything you read or hear on the LLSM "news"?
    A: That is why you are a gruber.

    The third world is the third world because that is what those people want. You cannot have empathy for every pathetic human being in the world. After spending trillions of dollars trying to raise Africa out of its third world state you would think that even a gruber like you might realize that.

    Lastly, the author posed his statement, "Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world.", as if one had to travel to a third world country to know they are poor and whatever else they are. (Backwards? Cultural Neadnderthals?) I responded in kind. But I don't hold our response against you. I know comprehension is lost on a gruber.

    “After spending trillions of dollars trying to raise Africa out of its third world state you would think that even a gruber like you might realize that”.

    Are you serious?!

    America does not spend billions helping anyone, except Israel.

    American money is spend destabilizing, corrupting, bribing, assassinating, never helping or building nations of Africa.

    America is the number one arms dealer in the world, while at the same time, tirelessly fight to get guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, whats wrong with that picture?

    If you think the US government is out their to help, yet read this site which informs to the contrary, your certifiable.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    This is how he was taught at the "most moral." His vocabulary suggests that he is a teen - and a rather nasty one, with superiority complex.
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  40. utu says:

    “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.”

    There is something to it. The Auschwitz death number was reduced from 4 millions to 1.1-1.3 millions. Plaques in 23 languages stating the 4 millions number at Auschwitz Birkenau monument were removed in 1990′s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    In 1985, I visited Auschwitz and Birkenau. We were also shown the film of the Red Army liberating the camp. If there was more comprehensive information about the Auschwitz complex, we missed it. Has anyone been there more recently?

    Does a site visit now include (as it should) maps and descriptions of all Auschwitz camps? How about the Monowitz Buna-Werke, the IG Farben factory within the Auschwitz III camp complex? No doubt that Jews died there. Also no doubt that huge numbers were simply worked to death. Besides the factory, Jews also slaved in mines.

    Everyone says Wikipedia is biased and edited by hasbarat, etc., but this article does more to cast doubt on the Hollywood holocaust legend than all the "deniers."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowitz_concentration_camp
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  41. Rurik says:
    @unit472
    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.
    People were on the phone with the police, their relatives, etc and their phone calls were even recorded and many of them are on line...if you can bare listening to a secretary roasting to death.None of them reported secondary explosions of the Loixeaux family business variety.

    Taking down a large building via a controlled demolition is a very precise engineering project. The structural beams have to be exposed and interior walls and concrete jackhammered away so the explosives can cut the steel in a precise sequence. It takes the Loixeaux family weeks to prepare a large building for demolition. To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.

    The sad thing about the 9/11 nuts is that they ignore the evidence of the people inside the buildings.

    I’ve listened to a call from a women trapped in the building on that day, talking about the unbearable heat, and then the call was cut off, and it turned out that she died.

    My reaction wasn’t to wonder why there were no sounds of explosions during the brief phone call, (there are a lot of videos and other evidence of explosions). My reaction was to wonder at the sheer horror those people experienced and the unimaginable evil of those who murdered them so callously.

    To imagine they ( or any other demolition company) could do a controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft.

    rather, to believe that building seven fell the way it did because of office fires and vibrations- is to demonstrate a capacity for infinite gullibility and zero understanding of physics at the ‘in your face’ level.

    Anyone with half a brain looking at building seven collapsing can see it was brought down.

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  42. @Faust
    I don't know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    Congratulations! You make Quartermaster appear smart.

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  43. @Wizard of Oz
    Are you not up to date with the well illustrated theory that the explosions, whether causing the steel cores to fail or just explaining the noises heard, were a result of molten aluminium and water coming together?

    Yes Wiz, water and aluminium mixed together not only melt thick steel but also keep it molten for weeks on end.

    Your contributions to this site are surely appreciated by all genuine lovers of comedy.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Satire, and even crude sarcasm, can't cut it if not based on true statements or implications of fact and some evident knowledge. Yours fails on both grounds as the work of Dr Frank Greening and his Norwegian metallurgist collaborator Christian Simensen appears in the absence of counter evidence to show that there were tons of molten aluminium produced by fire heating the aluminium of which the planes were made, that there was plenty of water from the building's fire protection systems available and that massive explosions, comparable at least to large quantities of TNT, were both theoretically possible and known to have destroyed aluminium smelters in fact. The 2014 documentary I saw was by Smithsonian TV et al. One of the truthers, Richard Gage, has I see purported to answer their claims but only by twisting facts and misrepresenting the doco as far as I could see.

    Instead of wasting space and time with silly and totally fabricated misrepresentations of the case why not just butt out until you have used your time to do the needed homework. If you then have something to say I'm sure you have a readership for your humble retractions.

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  44. Clyde says:
    @TJM
    Really, so to you it is far more likely that a plane crashing into a huge building that caused a fire will perfectly demolish 3 buildings?

    You believe a group of "Muslim terrorists", took over all these planes, with little training and flew them with great accuracy into these building?

    You believe a plane crashed into the Pentagon, even though there was NO discernible remnants of a plane to be seen at the site?

    You believe that a plane could get close to the Pentagon without being targeting by US defense forces?

    The point is, you make out like this being an inside job is so outrageous, but compared to the alternative, it is actually quite likely.

    America/Israel clandestine services have a LONG history of subversion, espionage, initiating false flags events, but the most damming evidence of this being an inside job, is the fact that they took this tragedy and were ready to use if to their advantage, LIKE IT WAS PLANNED!

    They pivoted from this terrorist (Deep State terrorism) attack, not to find the culprit, the Saudis, oh no, they used this to justify an attack upon IRAQ?!

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain. This tragedy was not turned into a event that unified the world to deal with terrorism, or the causes of it, quite the contrary, it was used to incite even more terrorism.

    In a world where CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other Zionist propaganda outlets are the sole source of information, your comments would seem reasonable, but we no longer live in the Zio-induced ignorant world. Now you comments are seen as the outlier, the deceiver, the mouth piece for those who wish to keep Americans in the dark.

    You could write a loony tune. False flag! False flag! There is no false flag like a Zio false flag!
    Are you trying to usurp J Revusky who is the Unz Minister of False Flags?

    Read More
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  45. tim s says:

    The issues raised by the math professor are mainly physics and, secondarily, statistics related – Is the explanation possible, and if so, how likely is it considering all surrounding factors.

    There is no place for high emotions when discussing physics, and there should be no third rails in a free society. But, we don’t really live in a free society with open debate, so here we get passionate attacks, or perhaps passive-aggressive attacks. But even attacks can be smokescreens made to discredit a theory even if one seems to support it.

    9/11 may be the most interesting event in US history, but it seems we’re too close to it to have a rational discussion. No surprise, since we’re still living it.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "...how likely is it considering all surrounding factors."
    The 9/11 commission had problems - by the admission of the commission' members.
    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/911-commissioners-didnt-believe-government.html
    Collection of evidence was compromised: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

    9/11 Commission executive director Philip Zelikow "tried to influence the final report..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission
    Mr. Zelikow in his own words:" I’ll tell you what I think the real threat [is] and actually has been since 1990 – it’s the threat against Israel" http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/20/142478/

    "...in the morning of 9/11 with the BBC’s extension to Ehud Barak, a former Prime Minister of Israel, of full license to finger on world television the targets for post-9/11 revenge. Without any formal investigation at all, the former Israeli General and intelligence officer named as probable culprits Osama bin Laden, Yasser Arafat, Iraq, Iran and Libya. Barak provided this list only minutes after an aircraft was pictured not even slowing down as it cut into the South Tower like a hot knife slicing through butter." - Splendid! Compare the Israelis' list of the alleged culprits with the list of countries targeted by Yinon plan: http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
    and named in Gen. Clark interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
    http://ahtribune.com/in-depth/899-911-scam.html
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  46. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor
    Well, it's a good thing that some people deviate from the official narrative, but why do they go so far? It's one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.

    Same thing with Holocaust Revision. It goes from sensible skepticism of official history to some ironclad belief that the official history must be entirely bunk and there was no killing of Jews at all or some such.

    This talk of false flag at Sandy Hook, chem-trails, and etc. And building #7. Wow.

    This is why most people stick with official narrative. Skepticism may begin healthy and interesting but soon gives over to new absolutes by conspiracy theorists. Those who are ultra-skeptical of official narrative tend to be super-gullible for the alternative narrative.

    Why do we see this phenom over and over?

    I think it has to do with psychology and personality. Consider religion. Some people are satisfied with moderate faith in God. But some people must have more. They must have total faith in God, they must feel God in their souls... like the crazy mother in CARRIE. Religious fanaticism appeals to people of certain personality who must have MORE. They must be pure in faith.
    It's like food. Majority of people are satisfied with enough food. But some people must have more. They are gluttonous. They must eat and eat and fill themselves like pigs.
    Or look at sex. Majority are happy with enough. But guys like Clinton must have more and more and more. He's pud-crazy. He's a fanadick. Enough is never enough for people with such personalities.

    We see the same thing with people for whom healthy and critical skepticism isn't enough. It's not satisfying. Skepticism means too many unanswered questions. Too many uncertainties.
    Paradoxically, the conspiracy theorists tend to be both radically rebellious and radically obedient. They tend to reject whatever happens to be the official narrative. But they surrender totally to the new alternative narrative. They go from "official 9/11 narrative may be wrong" to "this theory of what really happened is totally right".

    This is why one cannot talk reason to such people. They may be secular and even intelligent. But their personalities call for strong medicine, hard truths, absolutes. The problem with officialdom in a Liberal Democracy is it's usually the product of compromise of middle-of-the-road sort. Such middling officialdom isn't satisfying to those who want Old Time Religion or New Time Reason. Old Time Religion or New Time Reason, the appeal is in the fundie or radical conviction of absolutism.

    Some people are obedient and fanatical. Such people don't mind groveling to the Ruling Power and swallowing the Narrative.
    Some people are rebellious and libertine. Such people refuse to grovel to the Ruling Power and don't need some strong faith or medicine in anything. They just want to be free.
    Some people are rebellious and fanatical. They love to mock and attack the system.. but they hunger for a new system of absolute truth. They reject one god but demand another god.

    This is the appeal of Holocaust Denial and why you cannot argue with its adherents. It's not so much their lack of intelligence or sanity. It's that they have rebellious and fanatical personalities. They like to rebel against the status quo, but they don't feel comfortable with freedom and critical individuality. So, they seek a new panacea, a new theory or cause that is absolute in its truth. They reject the comfort of officialdom but seek new comforts of radical absolutism.

    For Holocaust Deniers, the Act of Denial is like strong religious faith. Being skeptical of official claims is too vague, confusing, and challenging. How better to know with total certainty that the Holocaust didn't happen. Hallelujah.

    It seems like the individuals covered by Dinh have that kind of personalities. They are smart and even sane. But their personalities hunger for strong faith, a New Time Reason, a secular version of Old Time Religion.
    Even as they take pride in being intelligent and skeptical enough to reject and disbelieve the official narrative, they baptize themselves in the certainties of all these conspiracy theories.

    It’s one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.

    what narrative are you talking about Priss?

    I’ve perused many truther sites and to this day I don’t know of one that claims to know exactly how those buildings were brought down on that day or who exactly brought them down. All they say is that the official version is pure bullshit. And they have several members of the official 911 commission on their side.

    So who are these people with their iron clad narrative?

    What we all know is that it would have been impossible for the BBC and Fox News to know building seven was going to fall before it did, unless someone who knew it provided those news organizations with a written script for its collapse. (And that someone was not Bin Laden).

    We all know that the Israeli government had Mossad agents set up cameras to “document the event” on that day. And so that means that certain Israelis at the highest levels knew about the attack.

    We know that.

    Most other things are speculation, but one can extrapolate certain things based on what we all know.

    We all know that certain elements inside our government wanted a pretext to destroy countries in the middle east that were inconvenient to Israel’s wider agenda. This we know, because they wrote papers on the subject, and men like Dick Cheney were not just members of PNAC or the CFR, but were its director too

    we know many things at this point. We know they wanted a “new Pearl Harbor” like event to catalyze the US public for war. We know this because they stated it.

    We know it was none other than Philip Zelikow who wrote an article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, entitled CATASTROPHIC TERRORISM: Imagining the Transformative Event. And then it was none other than this same Zionist and Israeli citizen who went on to be the executive director of the 911 Commission Report. Isn’t that something? They had an Israeli citizen and uber-Zionist who had called for the kind of thing that happened on 911 to happen, investigate the event when it finally did miraculously happen just as he had openly hoped for.

    Do they think we’re all that fucking stupid?

    Why yes, yes they do.

    And the truth be told, in many cases, they’re quite right.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.

    Some even say a plane didn't hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Do you know any experienced TV journalists, editors or producers? The idea that someone mistakenly says on a day like 9/11 that a building that has been burning inside all day has come down when it is in fact obviously going to come down soon means anything more than thst there was a typical minor stuff up or misunderstanding is patheticslly naive in a grown man who no longer lives at home sheltered from TV and other naughty influences.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Another bloody wipeout when my battery failed in the middle of my typing a long analysis of what the likely facts were if Israeli intelligence had got wind of the plot and kept a kid on whatever they knew although not so tight that they didn't have operatives in NY who knew snd observed. Conclusion: they probably wouldn't have been ruthless (and reckless) enough to allow it to go ahead without at least some covering warning to the US if they had expected the Twin Towers to be brought down and potentially many more than 3000 people killed.

    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

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  47. @NoseytheDuke
    Yes Wiz, water and aluminium mixed together not only melt thick steel but also keep it molten for weeks on end.

    Your contributions to this site are surely appreciated by all genuine lovers of comedy.

    Satire, and even crude sarcasm, can’t cut it if not based on true statements or implications of fact and some evident knowledge. Yours fails on both grounds as the work of Dr Frank Greening and his Norwegian metallurgist collaborator Christian Simensen appears in the absence of counter evidence to show that there were tons of molten aluminium produced by fire heating the aluminium of which the planes were made, that there was plenty of water from the building’s fire protection systems available and that massive explosions, comparable at least to large quantities of TNT, were both theoretically possible and known to have destroyed aluminium smelters in fact. The 2014 documentary I saw was by Smithsonian TV et al. One of the truthers, Richard Gage, has I see purported to answer their claims but only by twisting facts and misrepresenting the doco as far as I could see.

    Instead of wasting space and time with silly and totally fabricated misrepresentations of the case why not just butt out until you have used your time to do the needed homework. If you then have something to say I’m sure you have a readership for your humble retractions.

    Read More
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  48. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Rurik

    It’s one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.
     
    what narrative are you talking about Priss?

    I've perused many truther sites and to this day I don't know of one that claims to know exactly how those buildings were brought down on that day or who exactly brought them down. All they say is that the official version is pure bullshit. And they have several members of the official 911 commission on their side.

    So who are these people with their iron clad narrative?

    What we all know is that it would have been impossible for the BBC and Fox News to know building seven was going to fall before it did, unless someone who knew it provided those news organizations with a written script for its collapse. (And that someone was not Bin Laden).

    We all know that the Israeli government had Mossad agents set up cameras to "document the event" on that day. And so that means that certain Israelis at the highest levels knew about the attack.

    We know that.

    Most other things are speculation, but one can extrapolate certain things based on what we all know.

    We all know that certain elements inside our government wanted a pretext to destroy countries in the middle east that were inconvenient to Israel's wider agenda. This we know, because they wrote papers on the subject, and men like Dick Cheney were not just members of PNAC or the CFR, but were its director too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJZSTJJuPk

    we know many things at this point. We know they wanted a "new Pearl Harbor" like event to catalyze the US public for war. We know this because they stated it.

    We know it was none other than Philip Zelikow who wrote an article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, entitled CATASTROPHIC TERRORISM: Imagining the Transformative Event. And then it was none other than this same Zionist and Israeli citizen who went on to be the executive director of the 911 Commission Report. Isn't that something? They had an Israeli citizen and uber-Zionist who had called for the kind of thing that happened on 911 to happen, investigate the event when it finally did miraculously happen just as he had openly hoped for.

    Do they think we're all that fucking stupid?

    Why yes, yes they do.

    And the truth be told, in many cases, they're quite right.

    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.

    Some even say a plane didn’t hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.
     
    maybe they know that because you can hear the explosions and see the 'squibs'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9X_8flGeM

    Some even say a plane didn’t hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.
     
    did you see a plane hit the Pentagon? The Pentagon is probably about the most video surveilled piece of real estate in the world. Why no videos of the plane at all? Ever wonder about that? Or the missing flight data recorders? Nothing to worry about?

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.
     
    from what I understand there were no bodies or luggage found. And no plane. Just what looks like a crater in an existing gorge. Like they shot a missile into an existing gorge, and that's good enough for most people.

    why were there no bodies found? Remember the scenes from the jet that Putin shot down in Ukraine? And all the bodies and luggage all over the place? Why were there no bodies at the Shanksville, PA crash site?

    Nothing to worry about?
    , @SolontoCroesus

    statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.
     
    Anonmny, a true believer. Who woulda thunkit.

    https://americanfreepress.net/shanksville-resident-speaks-out-about-9-11/ (w/ photos)
    Nicole told this reporter: “To my knowledge, a plane went down near Imgrund Mountain Road off of New Baltimore Road. It’s so isolated and rocky along that hillside that it’d be an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    Nicole’s revelations coincide with information provided in Phantom Flight 93, especially a crucial live telecast filed by CNN’s Brian Cabell on September 11. He reported that a second debris field had been cordoned off approximately six miles from Shanksville. Obviously, plane crashes don’t cause wreckage to mysteriously fly six miles through the air.

    Nicole agreed and felt suspicious of the official story from day one.

    “I could tell right away that there was something fishy about it,” she said. “I knew a plane couldn’t have gone in there [the 20-foot Shanksville crater] from the pictures I saw on TV. It was such a farce. The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”
     

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2013/02/shanksville-pennsylvania-on-911.html
    Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on 9/11: The Mysterious Plane Crash Site Without a Plane

    The field where Flight 93 allegedly crashed

    "This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no
    bodies, and no noise."
    - Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

    "I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal.
    There was nothing."
    - Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

    "I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form,
    look like a plane crash."
    - Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset
    barracks of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]


    Many people who witnessed the site where United Airlines Flight 93 is supposed to have gone down on September 11, 2001, have said how little it resembled what they expected the scene of a plane crash to look like.

    According to official accounts, Flight 93, the fourth plane to be hijacked on September 11, crashed in a field in Pennsylvania after its courageous passengers and crew members attempted to retake control of their plane. However, numerous individuals who spent time at the supposed crash site have described seeing almost nothing resembling wreckage from a plane there. Some witnesses have recalled seeing little or no human remains at the site. And although Flight 93 was reportedly "heavily laden with jet fuel" when it crashed, investigators found no contamination from jet fuel in the soil and ground water around the site.
     
    The most interesting thing about the Shanksville crash site is that there's no there there. To be sure someone figured out how to get a buncha US government fiat money to pour a whole lot of concrete and build a weepateria, but nothing else is happening in the region: no bustling new shops to support the tourist industry -- that never developed; no new centers for research into the courage of ordinary people; no think-tankers hypothesizing about the Let's Roll phenomenon.

    I've travelled the roads around Shanksville for years, pre-9/11 and as recently as 2 weeks ago. Not much has changed: What has to be the world's biggest junk yard is about 2 miles from the entrance to the Shanksville weepateria; the field itself was home to a strip-mining operation, and shares space with an expanding windmill farm. Just a few hundred feet from the entrance is an industrial plant with a sign on the road that says, ENTER HERE, and a sign on the gate just 5 feet back that says, DO NOT ENTER.
    Pre-9/11 the industrial plant had its advert painted on a billboard next to its front building; now, that sign has some mawkish 'remember 9/11' stuff painted on it. Looks like the shop owner's grandkids designed it.
    The nearest town is Bedford, Pa -- sleepy; quaint -- probably built by Germans in the mid- to late-1800s. Their economy is based on tourism and a prison not far away. One relatively recent addition is the huge flag of Israel that flies from the corner of a building owned by the town's evangelical nutcase. On the opposite corner is the US flag, same size. Between the flags, on the side of the building, is a neon display -- probably 40' across, "Jesus Saves" (or something like that). The flags and the neon are visible from the major road past the town, Rte. 30.
    , @Paul C.
    Can you provide a picture of the plane or debris that hit the Pentagon or a picture of the plane or debris in Pennsylvania?

    The reason you cannot, is you've been misled.
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  49. @Rurik

    It’s one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.
     
    what narrative are you talking about Priss?

    I've perused many truther sites and to this day I don't know of one that claims to know exactly how those buildings were brought down on that day or who exactly brought them down. All they say is that the official version is pure bullshit. And they have several members of the official 911 commission on their side.

    So who are these people with their iron clad narrative?

    What we all know is that it would have been impossible for the BBC and Fox News to know building seven was going to fall before it did, unless someone who knew it provided those news organizations with a written script for its collapse. (And that someone was not Bin Laden).

    We all know that the Israeli government had Mossad agents set up cameras to "document the event" on that day. And so that means that certain Israelis at the highest levels knew about the attack.

    We know that.

    Most other things are speculation, but one can extrapolate certain things based on what we all know.

    We all know that certain elements inside our government wanted a pretext to destroy countries in the middle east that were inconvenient to Israel's wider agenda. This we know, because they wrote papers on the subject, and men like Dick Cheney were not just members of PNAC or the CFR, but were its director too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJZSTJJuPk

    we know many things at this point. We know they wanted a "new Pearl Harbor" like event to catalyze the US public for war. We know this because they stated it.

    We know it was none other than Philip Zelikow who wrote an article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, entitled CATASTROPHIC TERRORISM: Imagining the Transformative Event. And then it was none other than this same Zionist and Israeli citizen who went on to be the executive director of the 911 Commission Report. Isn't that something? They had an Israeli citizen and uber-Zionist who had called for the kind of thing that happened on 911 to happen, investigate the event when it finally did miraculously happen just as he had openly hoped for.

    Do they think we're all that fucking stupid?

    Why yes, yes they do.

    And the truth be told, in many cases, they're quite right.

    Do you know any experienced TV journalists, editors or producers? The idea that someone mistakenly says on a day like 9/11 that a building that has been burning inside all day has come down when it is in fact obviously going to come down soon means anything more than thst there was a typical minor stuff up or misunderstanding is patheticslly naive in a grown man who no longer lives at home sheltered from TV and other naughty influences.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    on a day like 9/11 that a building that has been burning inside all day has come down when it is in fact obviously going to come down
     
    well, it was perhaps obvious to you wiz, but to thousands of professionals, it was an anomaly, to say the least.
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  50. @TJM
    Really, so to you it is far more likely that a plane crashing into a huge building that caused a fire will perfectly demolish 3 buildings?

    You believe a group of "Muslim terrorists", took over all these planes, with little training and flew them with great accuracy into these building?

    You believe a plane crashed into the Pentagon, even though there was NO discernible remnants of a plane to be seen at the site?

    You believe that a plane could get close to the Pentagon without being targeting by US defense forces?

    The point is, you make out like this being an inside job is so outrageous, but compared to the alternative, it is actually quite likely.

    America/Israel clandestine services have a LONG history of subversion, espionage, initiating false flags events, but the most damming evidence of this being an inside job, is the fact that they took this tragedy and were ready to use if to their advantage, LIKE IT WAS PLANNED!

    They pivoted from this terrorist (Deep State terrorism) attack, not to find the culprit, the Saudis, oh no, they used this to justify an attack upon IRAQ?!

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain. This tragedy was not turned into a event that unified the world to deal with terrorism, or the causes of it, quite the contrary, it was used to incite even more terrorism.

    In a world where CNN, MSNBC, Fox and other Zionist propaganda outlets are the sole source of information, your comments would seem reasonable, but we no longer live in the Zio-induced ignorant world. Now you comments are seen as the outlier, the deceiver, the mouth piece for those who wish to keep Americans in the dark.

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain.

    Edwin Black wrote in The Transfer Agreement that “Zionist Jews returned from Versailles with a dual triumph: they acquired a homeland for Jews in Palestine, and guarantee of rights of Jews in Europe. ”

    USA was a major beneficiary of WWI: it held most of the gold and controlled almost all of the finance of major European states.

    USA, Jews & Jewish creeds & ideologies were the major beneficiaries of WWII: USA stole much of Germany’s gold; tons of Germany’s patents/ intellectual property; German scientists — best in the world at the time –were offered a deal: come to USA, live long & prosper, or rot or be hanged. After Germany was thoroughly looted, by USA as well as the Russians, Jews looted Russia’s intellectual and economic capital.
    You never hear about all the German art work & cultural artifacts that made their way to USA, but the people who stole it know, and so do the people who control the German archive in Washington, DC. (Film at 11:00 in 2096). USA post-war economic prosperity was boosted by war spending; major boost by supplying materiel etc. to rebuild the German (and French & Italian) towns that Allies bombed to rubble — how generous, that Marshall Plan, don’t you agree?–

    They pivoted from this terrorist (Deep State terrorism) attack, not to find the culprit, the Saudis, oh no, they used this to justify an attack upon IRAQ?!

    This is ALWAYS the prime evidence of a crime, who has the most to gain. This tragedy was not turned into a event that unified the world to deal with terrorism, or the causes of it, quite the contrary, it was used to incite even more terrorism.

    They couldn’t possibly use the event to “deal with terrorism . . . or the causes of it” because they are the terrorists and the causes of eruptions of terrorism, which some people call defending one’s homeland and culture, and have been since at least 1905.

    Read More
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  51. @utu
    "no one from that building has ever mentioned any explosives or anything suspicious, or spoke to anyone about anything odd." - How do you know it. Did you talk to everybody? Actually there were some people who were in WTC7 prior to collapse and saw damage that indicated some explosions. Here is interview with Barry Jennings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tr0TZa3WeI who witnessed explosions while being in WTC7.
    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    So it is possible that what Jennings took to be an explosion in WTC7 was the effect of collapsing WTC1 or WTC2. And it is not impossible that Jennings was a witness of an explosion.
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  52. I knew an ex-employee of an oil company operating in South America who said that the oil companies and local governments used to massacre the local Indians in order to drive them from their land. He was nuts and claimed that he participated. Maybe he wasn’t lying. By his age, this would have happened in the 1970s or 80s.

    Read More
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  53. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor
    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.

    Some even say a plane didn't hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.

    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.

    maybe they know that because you can hear the explosions and see the ‘squibs’

    Some even say a plane didn’t hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.

    did you see a plane hit the Pentagon? The Pentagon is probably about the most video surveilled piece of real estate in the world. Why no videos of the plane at all? Ever wonder about that? Or the missing flight data recorders? Nothing to worry about?

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.

    from what I understand there were no bodies or luggage found. And no plane. Just what looks like a crater in an existing gorge. Like they shot a missile into an existing gorge, and that’s good enough for most people.

    why were there no bodies found? Remember the scenes from the jet that Putin shot down in Ukraine? And all the bodies and luggage all over the place? Why were there no bodies at the Shanksville, PA crash site?

    Nothing to worry about?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    Thank you proving my point.
    , @RobinG
    WTF, Rurik...

    The best you can say is, "the jet that [USA and Kiev neo-Nazis allege that] Putin shot down in Ukraine."
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  54. @Priss Factor
    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.

    Some even say a plane didn't hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.

    statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.

    Anonmny, a true believer. Who woulda thunkit.

    https://americanfreepress.net/shanksville-resident-speaks-out-about-9-11/ (w/ photos)
    Nicole told this reporter: “To my knowledge, a plane went down near Imgrund Mountain Road off of New Baltimore Road. It’s so isolated and rocky along that hillside that it’d be an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    Nicole’s revelations coincide with information provided in Phantom Flight 93, especially a crucial live telecast filed by CNN’s Brian Cabell on September 11. He reported that a second debris field had been cordoned off approximately six miles from Shanksville. Obviously, plane crashes don’t cause wreckage to mysteriously fly six miles through the air.

    Nicole agreed and felt suspicious of the official story from day one.

    “I could tell right away that there was something fishy about it,” she said. “I knew a plane couldn’t have gone in there [the 20-foot Shanksville crater] from the pictures I saw on TV. It was such a farce. The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2013/02/shanksville-pennsylvania-on-911.html
    Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on 9/11: The Mysterious Plane Crash Site Without a Plane

    The field where Flight 93 allegedly crashed

    “This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no
    bodies, and no noise.”
    - Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

    “I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal.
    There was nothing.”
    - Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

    “I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form,
    look like a plane crash.”
    - Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset
    barracks of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]

    Many people who witnessed the site where United Airlines Flight 93 is supposed to have gone down on September 11, 2001, have said how little it resembled what they expected the scene of a plane crash to look like.

    According to official accounts, Flight 93, the fourth plane to be hijacked on September 11, crashed in a field in Pennsylvania after its courageous passengers and crew members attempted to retake control of their plane. However, numerous individuals who spent time at the supposed crash site have described seeing almost nothing resembling wreckage from a plane there. Some witnesses have recalled seeing little or no human remains at the site. And although Flight 93 was reportedly “heavily laden with jet fuel” when it crashed, investigators found no contamination from jet fuel in the soil and ground water around the site.

    The most interesting thing about the Shanksville crash site is that there’s no there there. To be sure someone figured out how to get a buncha US government fiat money to pour a whole lot of concrete and build a weepateria, but nothing else is happening in the region: no bustling new shops to support the tourist industry — that never developed; no new centers for research into the courage of ordinary people; no think-tankers hypothesizing about the Let’s Roll phenomenon.

    I’ve travelled the roads around Shanksville for years, pre-9/11 and as recently as 2 weeks ago. Not much has changed: What has to be the world’s biggest junk yard is about 2 miles from the entrance to the Shanksville weepateria; the field itself was home to a strip-mining operation, and shares space with an expanding windmill farm. Just a few hundred feet from the entrance is an industrial plant with a sign on the road that says, ENTER HERE, and a sign on the gate just 5 feet back that says, DO NOT ENTER.
    Pre-9/11 the industrial plant had its advert painted on a billboard next to its front building; now, that sign has some mawkish ‘remember 9/11′ stuff painted on it. Looks like the shop owner’s grandkids designed it.
    The nearest town is Bedford, Pa — sleepy; quaint — probably built by Germans in the mid- to late-1800s. Their economy is based on tourism and a prison not far away. One relatively recent addition is the huge flag of Israel that flies from the corner of a building owned by the town’s evangelical nutcase. On the opposite corner is the US flag, same size. Between the flags, on the side of the building, is a neon display — probably 40′ across, “Jesus Saves” (or something like that). The flags and the neon are visible from the major road past the town, Rte. 30.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    The most interesting thing about the Shanksville crash site is that there’s no there there.
     
    here's the crash site

    http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/photos/docs/pacrash.jpg

    it's become an object of mockery

    https://climatism.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/911-crash.gif

    there is no plane, and no bodies and no debris, and that gorge in the landscape was preexisting

    http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7508/1605/1600/crater13.gif

    they simply exploded something in the middle of a pre-existing gorge and called it a crash site, and that was good enough

    because they all know the level of gullibility of the sheeple, and just like with so many of their monstrous and myriad crimes, all they have to do is control the narrative from the msm, and boom, they can declare wars based on lies and everyone can know that they declared wars based on lies and no one really cares.

    Isn't that something?
    , @Priss Factor
    You're relying on a blog called shoestring911?

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com

    You gotta be shi**in' me.
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  55. @StAugustine
    Personally, I don't care if L. Dinh shares the views of his subject or not. All of this criticism about Dinh's rubbish.. the most I would critique him for is how his subjects just seem to ramble on and on and always seem to talk about the most conspiracy-est stuff. Of course, when you have a conspiracy theory, and someone is open to listening, it's hard not to talk about it - so I assume that Dinh's articles are really just evidence of how much rapport he builds with his subjects. But, it's a style, and the article is a condensed version of the interview, we assume Dinh isn't just writing fan fiction for Unz.com.

    Mr. Dinh, I would be very interested to see an interview of some middle class leftists, say an elementary school teacher or a protestant preacher. It might be harder to pin them down, and they're very skittish about crimethink, but you never know. Then again, it could just be incredibly banal and painful to read. Lower class leftists could be interesting as well, but they might not have enough independence of thought to interview..

    I agree that Linh Dinh obviously has a great talent as a sympathetic (seeming) listener, maybe positive charm and gives us the benefit of perhaps the equivalent of a great old-fashioned novelist’s introduction to an unfamiiar part of one’s world – with the bonus of its being actually true at least for one tiny snapshot.

    Read More
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  56. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Do you know any experienced TV journalists, editors or producers? The idea that someone mistakenly says on a day like 9/11 that a building that has been burning inside all day has come down when it is in fact obviously going to come down soon means anything more than thst there was a typical minor stuff up or misunderstanding is patheticslly naive in a grown man who no longer lives at home sheltered from TV and other naughty influences.

    on a day like 9/11 that a building that has been burning inside all day has come down when it is in fact obviously going to come down

    well, it was perhaps obvious to you wiz, but to thousands of professionals, it was an anomaly, to say the least.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    It was obviously going to come down once many hours of fire had destroyed the limited protection the core framework had, and then heated the core to a point of dangerous weakness. Which experts do you say would or do deny that what actually happened was possible according to their expertise?

    If you still think that WTC 7 was set up on some previous weekend or public holiday to be able to be imploded, presumably by remote control, many hours after planes have crashed into the Twin Towers you really need a plausible story of motive for anyone to take the risk of discovery, technological failure etc so that some benefit can accrue.

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  57. Paul C. says:
    @Priss Factor
    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.

    Some even say a plane didn't hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.

    Can you provide a picture of the plane or debris that hit the Pentagon or a picture of the plane or debris in Pennsylvania?

    The reason you cannot, is you’ve been misled.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    Do me a favor and get some truth.

    Watch the film UNITED 93 and ask yourself 'what happened to those passengers?'

    I mean they have grieving family members. You mean to tell me US gubment had those passengers taken away and killed and disappeared? The pilots too?

    Get some truth.
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  58. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Rurik

    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.
     
    maybe they know that because you can hear the explosions and see the 'squibs'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9X_8flGeM

    Some even say a plane didn’t hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.
     
    did you see a plane hit the Pentagon? The Pentagon is probably about the most video surveilled piece of real estate in the world. Why no videos of the plane at all? Ever wonder about that? Or the missing flight data recorders? Nothing to worry about?

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.
     
    from what I understand there were no bodies or luggage found. And no plane. Just what looks like a crater in an existing gorge. Like they shot a missile into an existing gorge, and that's good enough for most people.

    why were there no bodies found? Remember the scenes from the jet that Putin shot down in Ukraine? And all the bodies and luggage all over the place? Why were there no bodies at the Shanksville, PA crash site?

    Nothing to worry about?

    Thank you proving my point.

    Read More
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  59. Rurik says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.
     
    Anonmny, a true believer. Who woulda thunkit.

    https://americanfreepress.net/shanksville-resident-speaks-out-about-9-11/ (w/ photos)
    Nicole told this reporter: “To my knowledge, a plane went down near Imgrund Mountain Road off of New Baltimore Road. It’s so isolated and rocky along that hillside that it’d be an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    Nicole’s revelations coincide with information provided in Phantom Flight 93, especially a crucial live telecast filed by CNN’s Brian Cabell on September 11. He reported that a second debris field had been cordoned off approximately six miles from Shanksville. Obviously, plane crashes don’t cause wreckage to mysteriously fly six miles through the air.

    Nicole agreed and felt suspicious of the official story from day one.

    “I could tell right away that there was something fishy about it,” she said. “I knew a plane couldn’t have gone in there [the 20-foot Shanksville crater] from the pictures I saw on TV. It was such a farce. The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”
     

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2013/02/shanksville-pennsylvania-on-911.html
    Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on 9/11: The Mysterious Plane Crash Site Without a Plane

    The field where Flight 93 allegedly crashed

    "This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no
    bodies, and no noise."
    - Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

    "I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal.
    There was nothing."
    - Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

    "I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form,
    look like a plane crash."
    - Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset
    barracks of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]


    Many people who witnessed the site where United Airlines Flight 93 is supposed to have gone down on September 11, 2001, have said how little it resembled what they expected the scene of a plane crash to look like.

    According to official accounts, Flight 93, the fourth plane to be hijacked on September 11, crashed in a field in Pennsylvania after its courageous passengers and crew members attempted to retake control of their plane. However, numerous individuals who spent time at the supposed crash site have described seeing almost nothing resembling wreckage from a plane there. Some witnesses have recalled seeing little or no human remains at the site. And although Flight 93 was reportedly "heavily laden with jet fuel" when it crashed, investigators found no contamination from jet fuel in the soil and ground water around the site.
     
    The most interesting thing about the Shanksville crash site is that there's no there there. To be sure someone figured out how to get a buncha US government fiat money to pour a whole lot of concrete and build a weepateria, but nothing else is happening in the region: no bustling new shops to support the tourist industry -- that never developed; no new centers for research into the courage of ordinary people; no think-tankers hypothesizing about the Let's Roll phenomenon.

    I've travelled the roads around Shanksville for years, pre-9/11 and as recently as 2 weeks ago. Not much has changed: What has to be the world's biggest junk yard is about 2 miles from the entrance to the Shanksville weepateria; the field itself was home to a strip-mining operation, and shares space with an expanding windmill farm. Just a few hundred feet from the entrance is an industrial plant with a sign on the road that says, ENTER HERE, and a sign on the gate just 5 feet back that says, DO NOT ENTER.
    Pre-9/11 the industrial plant had its advert painted on a billboard next to its front building; now, that sign has some mawkish 'remember 9/11' stuff painted on it. Looks like the shop owner's grandkids designed it.
    The nearest town is Bedford, Pa -- sleepy; quaint -- probably built by Germans in the mid- to late-1800s. Their economy is based on tourism and a prison not far away. One relatively recent addition is the huge flag of Israel that flies from the corner of a building owned by the town's evangelical nutcase. On the opposite corner is the US flag, same size. Between the flags, on the side of the building, is a neon display -- probably 40' across, "Jesus Saves" (or something like that). The flags and the neon are visible from the major road past the town, Rte. 30.

    The most interesting thing about the Shanksville crash site is that there’s no there there.

    here’s the crash site

    it’s become an object of mockery

    there is no plane, and no bodies and no debris, and that gorge in the landscape was preexisting

    they simply exploded something in the middle of a pre-existing gorge and called it a crash site, and that was good enough

    because they all know the level of gullibility of the sheeple, and just like with so many of their monstrous and myriad crimes, all they have to do is control the narrative from the msm, and boom, they can declare wars based on lies and everyone can know that they declared wars based on lies and no one really cares.

    Isn’t that something?

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  60. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Paul C.
    Can you provide a picture of the plane or debris that hit the Pentagon or a picture of the plane or debris in Pennsylvania?

    The reason you cannot, is you've been misled.

    Do me a favor and get some truth.

    Watch the film UNITED 93 and ask yourself ‘what happened to those passengers?’

    I mean they have grieving family members. You mean to tell me US gubment had those passengers taken away and killed and disappeared? The pilots too?

    Get some truth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul C.
    The film is fiction. If we're talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.
    , @anonymous
    A friend - an absolutely sober, upright, also somewhat unimaginative gent, tells a story about a relative who worked for government, one day he disappeared. poof.
    his family think he is in witness protection program.

    one of the articles linked above mentioned another site 6 miles from the Shanksville site, "an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    [Six miles from the main site . . .] "The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”
     
    Is that where Flight 93 passengers were transferred from 93 to planes to their new homes away from home?
    Did the guvmint have to keep the place off limits until they could erase the landing strip and return it to its rugged state?

    You watch a lot of movies, anonymny; is the above scenario such a stretch of the imagination?

    Plausible/implausible that passengers on those flights "are not dead, they're just away" -- in a witness protection program. Could be their families got a cash payment. you didn't hear me say hush money.

    ---
    consider the case of Barbara Olsen, whose telephone calls to hubby Ted provided the "box cutters" meme -- turns out its suspect whether those calls could have happened http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-2/

    too many holes in the narrative.
    If the glove don't fit, so you can't convict.
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  61. @Rurik

    It’s one thing to be skeptical about official narrative about 9/11, but the truthers go from skepticism to a new kind of absolutism. They figure the official truth must be false, therefore their own narrative must be 100% true.
     
    what narrative are you talking about Priss?

    I've perused many truther sites and to this day I don't know of one that claims to know exactly how those buildings were brought down on that day or who exactly brought them down. All they say is that the official version is pure bullshit. And they have several members of the official 911 commission on their side.

    So who are these people with their iron clad narrative?

    What we all know is that it would have been impossible for the BBC and Fox News to know building seven was going to fall before it did, unless someone who knew it provided those news organizations with a written script for its collapse. (And that someone was not Bin Laden).

    We all know that the Israeli government had Mossad agents set up cameras to "document the event" on that day. And so that means that certain Israelis at the highest levels knew about the attack.

    We know that.

    Most other things are speculation, but one can extrapolate certain things based on what we all know.

    We all know that certain elements inside our government wanted a pretext to destroy countries in the middle east that were inconvenient to Israel's wider agenda. This we know, because they wrote papers on the subject, and men like Dick Cheney were not just members of PNAC or the CFR, but were its director too

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peJZSTJJuPk

    we know many things at this point. We know they wanted a "new Pearl Harbor" like event to catalyze the US public for war. We know this because they stated it.

    We know it was none other than Philip Zelikow who wrote an article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, entitled CATASTROPHIC TERRORISM: Imagining the Transformative Event. And then it was none other than this same Zionist and Israeli citizen who went on to be the executive director of the 911 Commission Report. Isn't that something? They had an Israeli citizen and uber-Zionist who had called for the kind of thing that happened on 911 to happen, investigate the event when it finally did miraculously happen just as he had openly hoped for.

    Do they think we're all that fucking stupid?

    Why yes, yes they do.

    And the truth be told, in many cases, they're quite right.

    Another bloody wipeout when my battery failed in the middle of my typing a long analysis of what the likely facts were if Israeli intelligence had got wind of the plot and kept a kid on whatever they knew although not so tight that they didn’t have operatives in NY who knew snd observed. Conclusion: they probably wouldn’t have been ruthless (and reckless) enough to allow it to go ahead without at least some covering warning to the US if they had expected the Twin Towers to be brought down and potentially many more than 3000 people killed.

    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

    Say Wiz,

    As a non-Jew - you sure work your little fingers to the bone typing one defense of Jews after another.

    You now have to defend the "holocaust", 9/11, the US economic policy, and the US foreign policy.

    You must have a staggering intellect - that takes a boat load of endless lies - how do you do it?

    Kudos man.

    Art
    , @Rurik

    if Israeli intelligence had got wind of the plot ...
    ... potentially many more than 3000 people killed.
     
    so the Israelis would have (did) allow the attack to commence -without warning us- because they didn't expect quite so many casualties?

    one wonders how many would be too many

    sure, they'd allow for the passengers and crew of the planes to die horribly, and of course a few dozen or even scores of people in the towers, (I mean why not?)

    but when it came to actually thousands of Americans to die, well then that would just be too much for the Israelis, because such carnage would be too reckless

    "it's very good"

    at least as my government sends its annual levy of billion$ of extorted tax lucre to Israel, perhaps it will comfort us to know that Israel wouldn't actually want for more than a few hundred Americans to get slaughtered to bolster support for the Zionist state.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    As I recall, initial estimates of the dead were as many as 60,000.

    I recall Rudy Giuliani claiming a place in history when he comforted the nation; he said the numbers of the dead might be "more than any of us can bear."

    According to this NYTimes article, that statement was made at about 1:00 pm on 9/11/2001.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/21/us/politics/21giuliani.html?_r=0

    That's over four hours after 8:46 am, when "the first plane hit the towers." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_for_the_day_of_the_September_11_attacks

    According to an ABC News report, a woman saw the five dancing Israelis taking photos of the World Trade Center Towers "shortly after the first plane hit the towers.

    She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

    Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. "They seemed to be taking a movie," Maria said.

    The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. "


    Just before 11:30 am (EST), "three hours after what happened in America," the interviewer observed, Ehud Barak spoke from a studio in London.
    (Barak suggested that the attack was a "bin Laden-type operation." Later, after pronouncing that the "US should lead" a concerted efforts by major world powers, including Russia, to eliminate terrorism," Barak included "Iran, Iraq and Libya" in the category "rogue states" who should be the target of a "six-to-ten-year long campaign against terrorism." bin Laden is, of course, a Saudi, not Iranian, Iraqi or Libyan. )


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Zj1fnGtjk

    Thus, at a time when Rudy Giuliani and ABC News believed and were broadcasting to the entire world that as many as 60 thousand people had been killed -- "more than we can bear -- Jewish Israeli nationals took photos of the burning towers and evidenced not dismay or distress but, according to Maria, the same witness,

    What struck Maria were the expressions on the men's faces. "They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange," she said.
     
    "Ehud Barak uttered no statement, one way or the other, of sympathy or elation, about the numbers of people killed, at a time when the world still thought the number might be as high as 60 thousand, but in any event was "more than any of us can bear."

    In short, Wizard, the timeline does not support your "Conclusion: they probably wouldn’t have been ruthless (and reckless) enough to allow it to go ahead without at least some covering warning to the US if they had expected the Twin Towers to be brought down and potentially many more than 3000 people killed."
    , @Anonymous
    Internet scuttle is that the Israelis warned Israelis working in the WTT to stay away that day, but they did not extend the warning to American Jews.
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  62. Paul C. says:
    @Priss Factor
    Do me a favor and get some truth.

    Watch the film UNITED 93 and ask yourself 'what happened to those passengers?'

    I mean they have grieving family members. You mean to tell me US gubment had those passengers taken away and killed and disappeared? The pilots too?

    Get some truth.

    The film is fiction. If we’re talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "The film is fiction." - You do not understand Anonymny. He gets reality form the movies. I imagine him being paralyzed, living in a basement and permanently connected to TV set.
    , @Priss Factor
    "The film is fiction. If we’re talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim."

    Look, I know the film is a speculation of what may have happened. No one really knows.

    But one thing is for sure. There were passengers on that plane, and, as show in the movie, some called their loved ones from the plane.

    So, a hijacking did happen. So, what happened to those passengers? Were they and their family members all 'actors' hired by the gubment? Were they killed by the gubment and was the whole thing shushed up? I mean come on.

    I know there is a lot of bad shit happening in gubment, but... imagine someone in CIA or some organization going to a bunch of underlings and saying, "look, fellers, we are gonna carry out this false flag operation you see, and we are gonna kill a bunch of American passengers on a US plane and make it seem like the terrorists done it."

    I mean what is the chance of anyone in gubment going along with such lunacy? I know there are some psychopaths in the US government, but that is bridge too far.
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  63. Art says:
    @Faust
    I don't know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    I don’t know how to credit Holocaust deniers, it strains credulity.

    As to Building 7, compression can create an effect similar in appearance to explosion.

    Say Faust,

    It is interesting that the Jews now have to defend both the “holocaust” and 9/11.

    Things are getting more difficult for them.

    They now are also the main defenders of the US government both domestic and foreign. By the day, this too is getting harder and harder to accomplish.

    Art

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  64. I think it was the Discovery Channel that had a reality program about building demolitions in the late 90s and early 00s, and the first thing I thought when I saw the buildings come down on 9-11 is that it looked like a demolition from the tv series. I was more concerned about going to war when it sunk in, so I wasn’t thinking about why it looked like a demolition.

    I’ve never thought about chemtrails.

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  65. utu says:
    @anony-mouse
    https://septembermyths.wordpress.com/world-trade-center/wtc-7-and-the-barry-jennings-story/

    So it is possible that what Jennings took to be an explosion in WTC7 was the effect of collapsing WTC1 or WTC2. And it is not impossible that Jennings was a witness of an explosion.

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  66. utu says:
    @Paul C.
    The film is fiction. If we're talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.

    “The film is fiction.” – You do not understand Anonymny. He gets reality form the movies. I imagine him being paralyzed, living in a basement and permanently connected to TV set.

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  67. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Another bloody wipeout when my battery failed in the middle of my typing a long analysis of what the likely facts were if Israeli intelligence had got wind of the plot and kept a kid on whatever they knew although not so tight that they didn't have operatives in NY who knew snd observed. Conclusion: they probably wouldn't have been ruthless (and reckless) enough to allow it to go ahead without at least some covering warning to the US if they had expected the Twin Towers to be brought down and potentially many more than 3000 people killed.

    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

    Say Wiz,

    As a non-Jew – you sure work your little fingers to the bone typing one defense of Jews after another.

    You now have to defend the “holocaust”, 9/11, the US economic policy, and the US foreign policy.

    You must have a staggering intellect – that takes a boat load of endless lies – how do you do it?

    Kudos man.

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Except he doesn't do it at all. The only support he gets here turn out to be from those cut from the same shabby, full of holes cloth.

    The ever increasing absurdity of his pathetic and nonsensical defences of the indefensible just goes to show that any idiot can become a lawyer then learn to lick arse well enough to teach others to do the same. Should one ever wonder just how it happens that so many lawyers turn out to be nothing more than lying wankers in the extreme take a read of Wiz's posting history and understand that this "great" Wizard actually teaches at a level above primary school. Little wonder the west is doomed.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    You really are a primitive slugger aren't you? You purport to make relevant comment wrt my views yet fail to notice that I am a critic of US foreign policy and economic policy.

    Perhaps you are confused by my choosing to point to the errors of the mad critics of the Fed and some purely imagined versions of US foreign policy.
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  68. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Another bloody wipeout when my battery failed in the middle of my typing a long analysis of what the likely facts were if Israeli intelligence had got wind of the plot and kept a kid on whatever they knew although not so tight that they didn't have operatives in NY who knew snd observed. Conclusion: they probably wouldn't have been ruthless (and reckless) enough to allow it to go ahead without at least some covering warning to the US if they had expected the Twin Towers to be brought down and potentially many more than 3000 people killed.

    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

    if Israeli intelligence had got wind of the plot …
    … potentially many more than 3000 people killed.

    so the Israelis would have (did) allow the attack to commence -without warning us- because they didn’t expect quite so many casualties?

    one wonders how many would be too many

    sure, they’d allow for the passengers and crew of the planes to die horribly, and of course a few dozen or even scores of people in the towers, (I mean why not?)

    but when it came to actually thousands of Americans to die, well then that would just be too much for the Israelis, because such carnage would be too reckless

    “it’s very good”

    at least as my government sends its annual levy of billion$ of extorted tax lucre to Israel, perhaps it will comfort us to know that Israel wouldn’t actually want for more than a few hundred Americans to get slaughtered to bolster support for the Zionist state.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I can well understand your attitude to some part of official Israel being so ruthless but my point is that one doesn't have to spin elaborate conspiracy theories just because one accepts that it is possible Israel's intelligence did a better job than the CIA and FBI and maybe decided ruthlessly that a couple of crashed airliners and a few people in offices burned to death would serve Israel's interests too well to throw away. But I would back a couple of other consequential probabilities. One is that it couldn't have been kept secret for 15 years and, above all, senior Israeli intelligence people would factor in very high probability of the secret getting out and doing immense damage to Israel at an unpredictable time. (What about the USS Liberty? Well, Israel was actually at war and there weren't thousands of litigious civilians involved.)

    That would make it very certain that Israeli intelligence would have communicated with US authorities in ways that covered their tracks. Nicely balanced so that it doesn't have to come out.

    The same reasoning leads to doubt about the dancing Israelis story if also including their being Israeli agents who were hustled out of the country. First their controllers would know they were loose cañnons and, second, how would you keep them shtum for 15 years?

    Still, the short answer is that the supposed Israeli foreknowledge adds absolutely nothing to the case for saying 9/11 was an inside job or a made in the USA conspiracy.
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  69. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Priss Factor
    Do me a favor and get some truth.

    Watch the film UNITED 93 and ask yourself 'what happened to those passengers?'

    I mean they have grieving family members. You mean to tell me US gubment had those passengers taken away and killed and disappeared? The pilots too?

    Get some truth.

    A friend – an absolutely sober, upright, also somewhat unimaginative gent, tells a story about a relative who worked for government, one day he disappeared. poof.
    his family think he is in witness protection program.

    one of the articles linked above mentioned another site 6 miles from the Shanksville site, “an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    [Six miles from the main site . . .] “The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”

    Is that where Flight 93 passengers were transferred from 93 to planes to their new homes away from home?
    Did the guvmint have to keep the place off limits until they could erase the landing strip and return it to its rugged state?

    You watch a lot of movies, anonymny; is the above scenario such a stretch of the imagination?

    Plausible/implausible that passengers on those flights “are not dead, they’re just away” — in a witness protection program. Could be their families got a cash payment. you didn’t hear me say hush money.


    consider the case of Barbara Olsen, whose telephone calls to hubby Ted provided the “box cutters” meme — turns out its suspect whether those calls could have happened http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-2/

    too many holes in the narrative.
    If the glove don’t fit, so you can’t convict.

    Read More
    • Replies: @edNels


    Now I know there was people who have been said to be lost from the passengers and crews of the several planes. Some from our are even.

    But really how sure can anybody be that the passengers ever existed or got on , or did ''said planes'' really fly that day? I mean in some of these events since then, there's conjecture of fake ''Crises Actors''and stuff so, how about fake documentation, cheaper by far.

    I don't remember anymore, but I guess there was lists of all the purported lost souls from that day, from the planes specifically, and they were from all over the country, as the planes were long haul to west coast, for the fuel load.

    Is that where Flight 93 passengers were transferred from 93 to planes to their new homes away from home?
     
    But did anybody ever undertake to do and exhaustive review of these individuals and were they really among the lost, did they all really ever exist etc.?

    Well if they did, then I doubt many are alive today, other than a few, who are living a luxurious life in South America, because, one, the number of ''souls'' lost, was too many to either relocate, or squelch, (too many witnesses, that's…Faux pas 101).

    Much easiier to fake the whole thing from the airport on, and faked the planes to, etc.

    Hell then, they probably took the real planes and ditched in the drink, and brought in fully automated droned surplus fuselages from out of mothballs. Pocket some change at every turn,
    just like the sly bastard too with that crooked smile.
    , @Priss Factor
    "You watch a lot of movies, anonymny; is the above scenario such a stretch of the imagination?"

    Movie logic doesn't apply to real life. Movies are useful for telling us about the power of myth, the power of narrative to obfuscate, distort, and amplify reality. Movies should never be seen as reality but as myth of reality. If you learn to read the myth, you can learn about reality. It's like you can learn about the power and ways of media and Hollywood by taking a closer look at something like SOCIAL NETWORK. It tells lies about what really happened, but it is very revealing about the game of power. Sorkin twisted the story to serve the narrative of Jewish guy gets revenge by being kept out of wasp country club. It tells a lie but reveals a deeper truth about the way of power because, after all, media and movies are tools of narrative which justify or vilify certain powers.

    But you seem to think reality is like a movie.

    If anything, I'll bet the Government loves 9/11 conspiracy theorists since their outlandish movie-like claims will never be taken seriously by most people.

    I think there were dark forces behind 9/11. There is no question Muslim radicals carried it out. But I think some in US and Israel(and maybe Saudi government) knew what was up but didn't do anything because it might be useful.

    Instead of focusing on that, we have all these whackjob movie-like theories that belong in 007 movies.

    It's like in CLOSE ENCOUNTERS. Within that universe, real UFO's really do exist, and Roy(Dreyfus) wants to get to the bottom of it. The government is trying to cover it up. It is to the advantage of the government that some people would rather talk about Big Foot and other wild stuff than focus on what is really happening. More outlandish the claims, the more it turns into a circus. And then, people will think people who see UFO's are all nuts, cranks, or clowns.

    If you stole a million dollars, you have less to fear from someone who says you stole 1 billion than from someone who says you stole 1 million. The number of one billion is so outlandish that the accusation will not be taken seriously.
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  70. @Wizard of Oz
    Another bloody wipeout when my battery failed in the middle of my typing a long analysis of what the likely facts were if Israeli intelligence had got wind of the plot and kept a kid on whatever they knew although not so tight that they didn't have operatives in NY who knew snd observed. Conclusion: they probably wouldn't have been ruthless (and reckless) enough to allow it to go ahead without at least some covering warning to the US if they had expected the Twin Towers to be brought down and potentially many more than 3000 people killed.

    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

    As I recall, initial estimates of the dead were as many as 60,000.

    I recall Rudy Giuliani claiming a place in history when he comforted the nation; he said the numbers of the dead might be “more than any of us can bear.”

    According to this NYTimes article, that statement was made at about 1:00 pm on 9/11/2001.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/21/us/politics/21giuliani.html?_r=0

    That’s over four hours after 8:46 am, when “the first plane hit the towers.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_for_the_day_of_the_September_11_attacks

    According to an ABC News report, a woman saw the five dancing Israelis taking photos of the World Trade Center Towers “shortly after the first plane hit the towers.

    She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.

    Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. “They seemed to be taking a movie,” Maria said.

    The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. “

    Just before 11:30 am (EST), “three hours after what happened in America,” the interviewer observed, Ehud Barak spoke from a studio in London.
    (Barak suggested that the attack was a “bin Laden-type operation.” Later, after pronouncing that the “US should lead” a concerted efforts by major world powers, including Russia, to eliminate terrorism,” Barak included “Iran, Iraq and Libya” in the category “rogue states” who should be the target of a “six-to-ten-year long campaign against terrorism.” bin Laden is, of course, a Saudi, not Iranian, Iraqi or Libyan. )

    Thus, at a time when Rudy Giuliani and ABC News believed and were broadcasting to the entire world that as many as 60 thousand people had been killed — “more than we can bear — Jewish Israeli nationals took photos of the burning towers and evidenced not dismay or distress but, according to Maria, the same witness,

    What struck Maria were the expressions on the men’s faces. “They were like happy, you know … They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange,” she said.

    “Ehud Barak uttered no statement, one way or the other, of sympathy or elation, about the numbers of people killed, at a time when the world still thought the number might be as high as 60 thousand, but in any event was “more than any of us can bear.”

    In short, Wizard, the timeline does not support your “Conclusion: they probably wouldn’t have been ruthless (and reckless) enough to allow it to go ahead without at least some covering warning to the US if they had expected the Twin Towers to be brought down and potentially many more than 3000 people killed.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Your conclusion doesn't affect my main point that Israeli foreknowledge doesn't help give credit to the generaility of conspiracy theories about how it happened or who did it.

    I'm not much impressed with the dancing Israelis evidence for reasons I have given elsewhere but also because I don't see it as unlikely that a group of young men making a film for some other reason would confratulate themselves thoughtlessly and callously on the valuable footage that they had got by chance. Do you?
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  71. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @StAugustine
    Personally, I don't care if L. Dinh shares the views of his subject or not. All of this criticism about Dinh's rubbish.. the most I would critique him for is how his subjects just seem to ramble on and on and always seem to talk about the most conspiracy-est stuff. Of course, when you have a conspiracy theory, and someone is open to listening, it's hard not to talk about it - so I assume that Dinh's articles are really just evidence of how much rapport he builds with his subjects. But, it's a style, and the article is a condensed version of the interview, we assume Dinh isn't just writing fan fiction for Unz.com.

    Mr. Dinh, I would be very interested to see an interview of some middle class leftists, say an elementary school teacher or a protestant preacher. It might be harder to pin them down, and they're very skittish about crimethink, but you never know. Then again, it could just be incredibly banal and painful to read. Lower class leftists could be interesting as well, but they might not have enough independence of thought to interview..

    he never talks to these people because they dont exist. its a literary device. these are lin dins thoughts that he is too ashamed to take credit for outright , even using a pseudonym.

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  72. edNels [AKA "geoshmoe"] says:
    @anonymous
    A friend - an absolutely sober, upright, also somewhat unimaginative gent, tells a story about a relative who worked for government, one day he disappeared. poof.
    his family think he is in witness protection program.

    one of the articles linked above mentioned another site 6 miles from the Shanksville site, "an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    [Six miles from the main site . . .] "The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”
     
    Is that where Flight 93 passengers were transferred from 93 to planes to their new homes away from home?
    Did the guvmint have to keep the place off limits until they could erase the landing strip and return it to its rugged state?

    You watch a lot of movies, anonymny; is the above scenario such a stretch of the imagination?

    Plausible/implausible that passengers on those flights "are not dead, they're just away" -- in a witness protection program. Could be their families got a cash payment. you didn't hear me say hush money.

    ---
    consider the case of Barbara Olsen, whose telephone calls to hubby Ted provided the "box cutters" meme -- turns out its suspect whether those calls could have happened http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-2/

    too many holes in the narrative.
    If the glove don't fit, so you can't convict.

    Now I know there was people who have been said to be lost from the passengers and crews of the several planes. Some from our are even.

    But really how sure can anybody be that the passengers ever existed or got on , or did ”said planes” really fly that day? I mean in some of these events since then, there’s conjecture of fake ”Crises Actors”and stuff so, how about fake documentation, cheaper by far.

    I don’t remember anymore, but I guess there was lists of all the purported lost souls from that day, from the planes specifically, and they were from all over the country, as the planes were long haul to west coast, for the fuel load.

    Is that where Flight 93 passengers were transferred from 93 to planes to their new homes away from home?

    But did anybody ever undertake to do and exhaustive review of these individuals and were they really among the lost, did they all really ever exist etc.?

    Well if they did, then I doubt many are alive today, other than a few, who are living a luxurious life in South America, because, one, the number of ”souls” lost, was too many to either relocate, or squelch, (too many witnesses, that’s…Faux pas 101).

    Much easiier to fake the whole thing from the airport on, and faked the planes to, etc.

    Hell then, they probably took the real planes and ditched in the drink, and brought in fully automated droned surplus fuselages from out of mothballs. Pocket some change at every turn,
    just like the sly bastard too with that crooked smile.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Apparently, the footage of the "high jackers" going through airport security at Boston airport that were repeated over and over were later found to be from footage taken on a day prior to 9/11.
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  73. @Quartermaster
    Anyone that has been out of the country knows about conditions in the 3rd world. It is especially bad in those countries that are nothing more than kackocracies, which is most of Africa, and much of Latin America.

    The business of 9/11 being an inside job is a myth.

    The Chemtrail trash is just that, trash. What has been pointed out as chemtrails is nothing more than contrails which are produced by aircraft under conditions of relatively high humidity at altitude. Occasionally they will be produced a lower altitudes, but, I guess, condensed water vapor is a chemical, but as far as them being some sort of poison, that's simply a clownish belief.

    The UK lost Hong Kong because Thatcher didn't negotiate competently. China was quite happy with HK continuing as a crown colony. There was a strong symbiotic relationship between HK and mainland China that benefitted both. That was lost with the reversion of the city to China.

    So much of what Linh Dinh posts is mere rubbish.

    I don’t know what really happened on 911, but the official explanations of building 7, the nice round hole at the Pentagon and the barren field at Shanksville, PA are all whoppers. You seem to know what really happened. Please explain.

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  74. Rehmat says:
    @anonymous
    f*&k off Rehmat

    if the only way you can sell Islam is by running down what other people believe, you and the creed you're selling are failures.

    personally myself, I don't think Islam is a failure. I think it's got profound things to say.

    so it must be you.

    Hi coward Jew hiding behind anonymous ID.

    I have read your filthy Talmud which not only hates humans but animals also.

    Israel daily YNet reported on June 16, 2011 that a Jerusalem rabbinical court recently sentenced a wandering dog (considered an impure animal by Halacha) to death by stoning. The cruel sentence stemmed from the suspicion that the spirit of a famous secular lawyer, who insulted the court’s judges 20 years ago, had been transferred into the dog’s body.

    The judgement was probably based on Exodus 21:28: “If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible”.

    https://rehmat1.com/2011/06/17/israeli-dog-sentenced-to-death-by-stoning/

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    • Replies: @anon
    anonymous jew coward. hey ramhat is that your full name ? if not , you are just as big a coward as him . btw recently released studies reveal pakistani men like yourself to be the 2nd weakest in the world behind bengladeshis LoL.

    here is ayatollah khomeinis thoughts on sex with animals :
    “A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.”  – From Khomeini’s book,Tahrir al-Vasyleh, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990
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  75. Right. So the remaining survivors of the Nazi’s cruelty were all in cahoots to spread the “myth of the gas-chamber”. Ridiculous. U.S aid to Israel isn’t the evil bogeyman many would have it here on Unz. I will admit though that people like this interviewee are masterful at composing and creating doubt.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    Right. So the remaining survivors of the Nazi’s cruelty were all in cahoots to spread the “myth of the gas-chamber”.
     
    exactly so.

    U.S aid to Israel isn’t the evil bogeyman many would have it here on Unz.
     
    evil boogeyman or flying purple people eater, it has to stop.
    At a SRO talk by somebody named Viorst about his book on Zionism, the mostly-Jewish audience agreed on this: STOPPING US aid to Israel is the sine qua non to ending Israel's addiction to the thuggish ideology of Jabotinskyit/ revisionist zionism.

    But you don't have to be Jewish to have a vote: if you're an American and a taxpayer, you HAVE a vote, that should be exercised, with extreme prejudice, against one more centime to Israel.

    people like this interviewee are masterful at composing and creating doubt.
     
    The interviewee said only that he looked at the evidence from one source after the other --
    British codebreaker transcripts;
    Red Cross;
    Russian archives;
    German archives --
    nowhere, not even in the archives of Germany going back to Bismarck that are in the hands of Americans and have been under the control of a Jewish archivist, Robert Wolfe, since ~1945, was Rudy List able to find documentation of gas chambers. (I wonder: USAF flew numerous missions over Auschwitz, taking photos for intelligence purposes etc. Are there any photos in USAF archives that show gas chambers? Any reports?)

    Whom should Rudy believe, Elie Wiesel or his lyin' eyes?
    , @Art

    So the remaining survivors of the Nazi’s cruelty were all in cahoots to spread the “myth of the gas-chamber”. Ridiculous.
     
    Yo Benji,

    Not ridiculous -- the "holocaust" is a huge cash cow for the Jews.

    The "six million" is a lie - the consensus number is 500,000 to 1.5 million dead Jews - truly an ungodly numbers. Fifty million died in WWII – Jews represent 2% of the deaths. Yet we can see that they get 98% of the victimization press.

    What is particularly vexing is that they have used this lopsided press to cause havoc in the ME. Truly, the stealing of Palestine from its thousand year inhabitants is a great crime.

    The Six Million Lie – is bringing The Stain of Palestine to the worlds Jews.

    You cannot lie to all the people all the time.

    Art
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  76. annamaria says:
    @restless94110
    Q: What the fuck is a gruber? A: you just made up a jargon-y word.
    Q: What the fuck is an LLSM? A: you just made up another piece of jargon.

    Jargon is the refuge of arrogant fools. It says: we can talk in our own special language so you lowly people can't understand what we are saying. It makes us feel superior because we know special words and you don't.

    Messge to woodNhead: I don't believe anything I read or hear from anyone anywhere. I check things out. I listen to what people are saying. If what they say makes sense perhaps they can be trusted. If it does not? I don't believe it.

    I guess that's why I am a gruber.

    So, let's get to you: "The third world is the third world because that is what those people want." So those people want to be poor, starving, constantly insecure and at times at risk of death? People want that so we don't need to empathize with others of our species. Because in your world people in the third world are actually not people at all. They are animals of a different species than your species.

    Your species apparently believes that it can sit in a chair somewhere in a comfy house and can know everything it needs to know about the sufferring of the human race. No need to broaden itself by travel amongst the alien species: the human race.

    Q: what do you call a thing that is not of the human species, as evidenced by your comments? A: a goober.

    He is just a provocateur enjoying his littering the UnzReviw with little petards. It is not difficult to spot the defenders of Israel on this site. The detours and fake high-brow blowiating are their strategy.

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    You are probably right since it has been widely-reported that the Isreali government has hired an army of trolls to do nothing but spout propaganda all over the internet.

    I usually ask a suspected troll if he or she is a citizen of Isreal or of the US.

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.

    However, my question still applies: what country has your allegiance? There can be only one, not both.
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  77. annamaria says:
    @TJM
    "After spending trillions of dollars trying to raise Africa out of its third world state you would think that even a gruber like you might realize that".

    Are you serious?!

    America does not spend billions helping anyone, except Israel.

    American money is spend destabilizing, corrupting, bribing, assassinating, never helping or building nations of Africa.

    America is the number one arms dealer in the world, while at the same time, tirelessly fight to get guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, whats wrong with that picture?

    If you think the US government is out their to help, yet read this site which informs to the contrary, your certifiable.

    This is how he was taught at the “most moral.” His vocabulary suggests that he is a teen – and a rather nasty one, with superiority complex.

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  78. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Paul C.
    The film is fiction. If we're talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.

    “The film is fiction. If we’re talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.”

    Look, I know the film is a speculation of what may have happened. No one really knows.

    But one thing is for sure. There were passengers on that plane, and, as show in the movie, some called their loved ones from the plane.

    So, a hijacking did happen. So, what happened to those passengers? Were they and their family members all ‘actors’ hired by the gubment? Were they killed by the gubment and was the whole thing shushed up? I mean come on.

    I know there is a lot of bad shit happening in gubment, but… imagine someone in CIA or some organization going to a bunch of underlings and saying, “look, fellers, we are gonna carry out this false flag operation you see, and we are gonna kill a bunch of American passengers on a US plane and make it seem like the terrorists done it.”

    I mean what is the chance of anyone in gubment going along with such lunacy? I know there are some psychopaths in the US government, but that is bridge too far.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    but… imagine someone in CIA or some organization going to a bunch of underlings and saying, “look, fellers, we are gonna carry out this false flag operation you see, and we are gonna kill a bunch of American passengers on a US plane and make it seem like the terrorists done it.”
     
    they would never even think of such a thing!!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    imagine people at the highest levels of the US government deciding on a plan of lies and treachery to foist a war upon an innocent country and people that would ultimately slaughter and maim and displace millions, not to mention slaughtering and maiming tens of thousands of young Americans. All with a deliberate agenda to bolster Israel. Can you imagine such a thing? Can you imagine our very own CIA and all the other acronyms of Satan taking part in such an operation?

    why it's madness!

    it's also exactly what was done

    Not just to Iraq, but to several other countries as well.

    If you think that elements at the highest levels of our government and media are not capable of telling murderous lies that will recklessly get thousand of Americans killed and maimed, (not to mention millions of innocent civilians slaughtered, maimed and ruined) you're a little more naïve than I think you are. Indeed, I suspect this myopic gullibility is a bit of deliberate obtuseness.

    every single war of the last century was based on lies and false flags

    every single one, and hundreds of millions perished in the conflagrations; to the ecstatic elation of all Zionists everywhere.

    and we all know that the Bush administration was hell bent on war from day one. That's why Bush's Treasury secretary Paul O'Neill resigned in disgust, because he said Bush and the rest of the war pig scum were intent on a war with Iraq from day one. Long before 911 even happened.

    They are stone-cold psychopaths Priss. And ideological Zionists = genocidal fiends. You of all people ought to be able to wrap your brain around that.
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  79. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @anonymous
    A friend - an absolutely sober, upright, also somewhat unimaginative gent, tells a story about a relative who worked for government, one day he disappeared. poof.
    his family think he is in witness protection program.

    one of the articles linked above mentioned another site 6 miles from the Shanksville site, "an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    [Six miles from the main site . . .] "The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”
     
    Is that where Flight 93 passengers were transferred from 93 to planes to their new homes away from home?
    Did the guvmint have to keep the place off limits until they could erase the landing strip and return it to its rugged state?

    You watch a lot of movies, anonymny; is the above scenario such a stretch of the imagination?

    Plausible/implausible that passengers on those flights "are not dead, they're just away" -- in a witness protection program. Could be their families got a cash payment. you didn't hear me say hush money.

    ---
    consider the case of Barbara Olsen, whose telephone calls to hubby Ted provided the "box cutters" meme -- turns out its suspect whether those calls could have happened http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-2/

    too many holes in the narrative.
    If the glove don't fit, so you can't convict.

    “You watch a lot of movies, anonymny; is the above scenario such a stretch of the imagination?”

    Movie logic doesn’t apply to real life. Movies are useful for telling us about the power of myth, the power of narrative to obfuscate, distort, and amplify reality. Movies should never be seen as reality but as myth of reality. If you learn to read the myth, you can learn about reality. It’s like you can learn about the power and ways of media and Hollywood by taking a closer look at something like SOCIAL NETWORK. It tells lies about what really happened, but it is very revealing about the game of power. Sorkin twisted the story to serve the narrative of Jewish guy gets revenge by being kept out of wasp country club. It tells a lie but reveals a deeper truth about the way of power because, after all, media and movies are tools of narrative which justify or vilify certain powers.

    But you seem to think reality is like a movie.

    If anything, I’ll bet the Government loves 9/11 conspiracy theorists since their outlandish movie-like claims will never be taken seriously by most people.

    I think there were dark forces behind 9/11. There is no question Muslim radicals carried it out. But I think some in US and Israel(and maybe Saudi government) knew what was up but didn’t do anything because it might be useful.

    Instead of focusing on that, we have all these whackjob movie-like theories that belong in 007 movies.

    It’s like in CLOSE ENCOUNTERS. Within that universe, real UFO’s really do exist, and Roy(Dreyfus) wants to get to the bottom of it. The government is trying to cover it up. It is to the advantage of the government that some people would rather talk about Big Foot and other wild stuff than focus on what is really happening. More outlandish the claims, the more it turns into a circus. And then, people will think people who see UFO’s are all nuts, cranks, or clowns.

    If you stole a million dollars, you have less to fear from someone who says you stole 1 billion than from someone who says you stole 1 million. The number of one billion is so outlandish that the accusation will not be taken seriously.

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  80. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @SolontoCroesus

    statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.
     
    Anonmny, a true believer. Who woulda thunkit.

    https://americanfreepress.net/shanksville-resident-speaks-out-about-9-11/ (w/ photos)
    Nicole told this reporter: “To my knowledge, a plane went down near Imgrund Mountain Road off of New Baltimore Road. It’s so isolated and rocky along that hillside that it’d be an ideal place for a plane to be hidden.”

    Nicole’s revelations coincide with information provided in Phantom Flight 93, especially a crucial live telecast filed by CNN’s Brian Cabell on September 11. He reported that a second debris field had been cordoned off approximately six miles from Shanksville. Obviously, plane crashes don’t cause wreckage to mysteriously fly six miles through the air.

    Nicole agreed and felt suspicious of the official story from day one.

    “I could tell right away that there was something fishy about it,” she said. “I knew a plane couldn’t have gone in there [the 20-foot Shanksville crater] from the pictures I saw on TV. It was such a farce. The main road off Route 30 leading into New Baltimore was cordoned off for weeks afterward. Nobody could drive down it unless they lived there. Everyone was told to shut up and not to say anything to anyone.”
     

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com/2013/02/shanksville-pennsylvania-on-911.html
    Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on 9/11: The Mysterious Plane Crash Site Without a Plane

    The field where Flight 93 allegedly crashed

    "This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no
    bodies, and no noise."
    - Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

    "I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal.
    There was nothing."
    - Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

    "I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form,
    look like a plane crash."
    - Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset
    barracks of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]


    Many people who witnessed the site where United Airlines Flight 93 is supposed to have gone down on September 11, 2001, have said how little it resembled what they expected the scene of a plane crash to look like.

    According to official accounts, Flight 93, the fourth plane to be hijacked on September 11, crashed in a field in Pennsylvania after its courageous passengers and crew members attempted to retake control of their plane. However, numerous individuals who spent time at the supposed crash site have described seeing almost nothing resembling wreckage from a plane there. Some witnesses have recalled seeing little or no human remains at the site. And although Flight 93 was reportedly "heavily laden with jet fuel" when it crashed, investigators found no contamination from jet fuel in the soil and ground water around the site.
     
    The most interesting thing about the Shanksville crash site is that there's no there there. To be sure someone figured out how to get a buncha US government fiat money to pour a whole lot of concrete and build a weepateria, but nothing else is happening in the region: no bustling new shops to support the tourist industry -- that never developed; no new centers for research into the courage of ordinary people; no think-tankers hypothesizing about the Let's Roll phenomenon.

    I've travelled the roads around Shanksville for years, pre-9/11 and as recently as 2 weeks ago. Not much has changed: What has to be the world's biggest junk yard is about 2 miles from the entrance to the Shanksville weepateria; the field itself was home to a strip-mining operation, and shares space with an expanding windmill farm. Just a few hundred feet from the entrance is an industrial plant with a sign on the road that says, ENTER HERE, and a sign on the gate just 5 feet back that says, DO NOT ENTER.
    Pre-9/11 the industrial plant had its advert painted on a billboard next to its front building; now, that sign has some mawkish 'remember 9/11' stuff painted on it. Looks like the shop owner's grandkids designed it.
    The nearest town is Bedford, Pa -- sleepy; quaint -- probably built by Germans in the mid- to late-1800s. Their economy is based on tourism and a prison not far away. One relatively recent addition is the huge flag of Israel that flies from the corner of a building owned by the town's evangelical nutcase. On the opposite corner is the US flag, same size. Between the flags, on the side of the building, is a neon display -- probably 40' across, "Jesus Saves" (or something like that). The flags and the neon are visible from the major road past the town, Rte. 30.

    You’re relying on a blog called shoestring911?

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com

    You gotta be shi**in’ me.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    You’re relying on a blog called shoestring911?
    You gotta be shi**in’ me.
     
    iow you can't prove whether Barbara Olsen did or did not use a telephone or place calls to her husband.

    check.

    btw -- above, @ 78. you wrote in response to

    Paul C: “The film is fiction. If we’re talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.”

    You responded:

    Look, I know the film is a speculation of what may have happened. No one really knows.

    But one thing is for sure.
    There were passengers on that plane, and, as show in the movie, some called their loved ones from the plane.

    So, a hijacking did happen.
     
    -- You didn't provide a picture or other proof.
    -- You acknowledged that film is speculation; you repeated that, with a little Anonymny homily for emphasis, in comment # 79, where you wrote:

    Movie logic doesn’t apply to real life.

    Which I take to mean, making up stories from the windmills of your mind is not reality; it is not evidence or proof or the truth that Paul C. is striving for.

    So how do you get from "No one really knows" . . . to "One thing is for sure?"
    The same way Thelma and Louise fly into the Grand Canyon in a convertible, then Susan Sarandon and Geena Davis make public appearances last April to promote the movie's 25th anniversary? (heh. holocaust survivors.)

    What evidence, what proof do you have, Anonymny?
    , @vinteuil
    Anonymny, you just slipped out of character.
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  81. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    Hi coward Jew hiding behind anonymous ID.

    I have read your filthy Talmud which not only hates humans but animals also.

    Israel daily YNet reported on June 16, 2011 that a Jerusalem rabbinical court recently sentenced a wandering dog (considered an impure animal by Halacha) to death by stoning. The cruel sentence stemmed from the suspicion that the spirit of a famous secular lawyer, who insulted the court’s judges 20 years ago, had been transferred into the dog’s body.

    The judgement was probably based on Exodus 21:28: “If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible”.

    https://rehmat1.com/2011/06/17/israeli-dog-sentenced-to-death-by-stoning/

    anonymous jew coward. hey ramhat is that your full name ? if not , you are just as big a coward as him . btw recently released studies reveal pakistani men like yourself to be the 2nd weakest in the world behind bengladeshis LoL.

    here is ayatollah khomeinis thoughts on sex with animals :
    “A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.”  – From Khomeini’s book,Tahrir al-Vasyleh, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990

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    • Replies: @5371
    You can read Persian?
    , @Rehmat
    Hi anon - Is your real name is Zionist Israeli pig?

    http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2016/05/29/jewish-student-kicked-called-zionist-pig-during-an-anti-israel-protest-in-toronto.html
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  82. annamaria says:
    @tim s
    The issues raised by the math professor are mainly physics and, secondarily, statistics related - Is the explanation possible, and if so, how likely is it considering all surrounding factors.

    There is no place for high emotions when discussing physics, and there should be no third rails in a free society. But, we don't really live in a free society with open debate, so here we get passionate attacks, or perhaps passive-aggressive attacks. But even attacks can be smokescreens made to discredit a theory even if one seems to support it.

    9/11 may be the most interesting event in US history, but it seems we're too close to it to have a rational discussion. No surprise, since we're still living it.

    “…how likely is it considering all surrounding factors.”
    The 9/11 commission had problems – by the admission of the commission’ members.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/911-commissioners-didnt-believe-government.html

    Collection of evidence was compromised: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

    9/11 Commission executive director Philip Zelikow “tried to influence the final report…” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_9/11_Commission
    Mr. Zelikow in his own words:” I’ll tell you what I think the real threat [is] and actually has been since 1990 – it’s the threat against Israel” http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09/20/142478/

    “…in the morning of 9/11 with the BBC’s extension to Ehud Barak, a former Prime Minister of Israel, of full license to finger on world television the targets for post-9/11 revenge. Without any formal investigation at all, the former Israeli General and intelligence officer named as probable culprits Osama bin Laden, Yasser Arafat, Iraq, Iran and Libya. Barak provided this list only minutes after an aircraft was pictured not even slowing down as it cut into the South Tower like a hot knife slicing through butter.” – Splendid! Compare the Israelis’ list of the alleged culprits with the list of countries targeted by Yinon plan: http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
    and named in Gen. Clark interview:

    http://ahtribune.com/in-depth/899-911-scam.html

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  83. @utu
    "controlled demolition of the WTC and Building 7 surreptitiously is to believe in witchcraft." - You have to have a courage to believe your own eyes, then you do not to have invoke witchcraft.

    Here is Dutch demolition expert after watching video of WTC7 collapse for the first time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1Lh7lYMNo

    I don’t speak Dutch.
    This guy could be ANYONE, saying ANYTHING.
    I mean, just to follow the “conspiracy theory” angle to conclusion.

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  84. @Benji Gold
    Right. So the remaining survivors of the Nazi's cruelty were all in cahoots to spread the "myth of the gas-chamber". Ridiculous. U.S aid to Israel isn't the evil bogeyman many would have it here on Unz. I will admit though that people like this interviewee are masterful at composing and creating doubt.

    Right. So the remaining survivors of the Nazi’s cruelty were all in cahoots to spread the “myth of the gas-chamber”.

    exactly so.

    U.S aid to Israel isn’t the evil bogeyman many would have it here on Unz.

    evil boogeyman or flying purple people eater, it has to stop.
    At a SRO talk by somebody named Viorst about his book on Zionism, the mostly-Jewish audience agreed on this: STOPPING US aid to Israel is the sine qua non to ending Israel’s addiction to the thuggish ideology of Jabotinskyit/ revisionist zionism.

    But you don’t have to be Jewish to have a vote: if you’re an American and a taxpayer, you HAVE a vote, that should be exercised, with extreme prejudice, against one more centime to Israel.

    people like this interviewee are masterful at composing and creating doubt.

    The interviewee said only that he looked at the evidence from one source after the other –
    British codebreaker transcripts;
    Red Cross;
    Russian archives;
    German archives –
    nowhere, not even in the archives of Germany going back to Bismarck that are in the hands of Americans and have been under the control of a Jewish archivist, Robert Wolfe, since ~1945, was Rudy List able to find documentation of gas chambers. (I wonder: USAF flew numerous missions over Auschwitz, taking photos for intelligence purposes etc. Are there any photos in USAF archives that show gas chambers? Any reports?)

    Whom should Rudy believe, Elie Wiesel or his lyin’ eyes?

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  85. @Priss Factor
    You're relying on a blog called shoestring911?

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com

    You gotta be shi**in' me.

    You’re relying on a blog called shoestring911?
    You gotta be shi**in’ me.

    iow you can’t prove whether Barbara Olsen did or did not use a telephone or place calls to her husband.

    check.

    btw — above, @ 78. you wrote in response to

    Paul C: “The film is fiction. If we’re talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.”

    You responded:

    Look, I know the film is a speculation of what may have happened. No one really knows.

    But one thing is for sure. There were passengers on that plane, and, as show in the movie, some called their loved ones from the plane.

    So, a hijacking did happen.

    – You didn’t provide a picture or other proof.
    – You acknowledged that film is speculation; you repeated that, with a little Anonymny homily for emphasis, in comment # 79, where you wrote:

    Movie logic doesn’t apply to real life.

    Which I take to mean, making up stories from the windmills of your mind is not reality; it is not evidence or proof or the truth that Paul C. is striving for.

    So how do you get from “No one really knows” . . . to “One thing is for sure?”
    The same way Thelma and Louise fly into the Grand Canyon in a convertible, then Susan Sarandon and Geena Davis make public appearances last April to promote the movie’s 25th anniversary? (heh. holocaust survivors.)

    What evidence, what proof do you have, Anonymny?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    I remember seeing a TV interview with some of the family members of the victims of United 93.

    You mean they were actors?

    Why don't you give it up?
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  86. 5371 says:
    @anon
    anonymous jew coward. hey ramhat is that your full name ? if not , you are just as big a coward as him . btw recently released studies reveal pakistani men like yourself to be the 2nd weakest in the world behind bengladeshis LoL.

    here is ayatollah khomeinis thoughts on sex with animals :
    “A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.”  – From Khomeini’s book,Tahrir al-Vasyleh, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990

    You can read Persian?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    dey gots dis new google machine and dontcha know it can translate dozens of languages !!!!!
    , @Alden
    Reading Persian is not that unusual in some parts of America. If I walk less than 2 blocks to the neighborhood senior center any weekday, I can find between 20 and 100 Persian speakers who would be happy to translate.
    Less than a mile away is a major hospital medical office complex All I would have to do is walk in and ask random Whites if they could translate Persian for me and I'd find someone in 10 minutes or less.

    Such is multiculturalism and unlimited immigration.
    What I would not find working in that medical center is European descent Whites.
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  87. Art says:
    @Benji Gold
    Right. So the remaining survivors of the Nazi's cruelty were all in cahoots to spread the "myth of the gas-chamber". Ridiculous. U.S aid to Israel isn't the evil bogeyman many would have it here on Unz. I will admit though that people like this interviewee are masterful at composing and creating doubt.

    So the remaining survivors of the Nazi’s cruelty were all in cahoots to spread the “myth of the gas-chamber”. Ridiculous.

    Yo Benji,

    Not ridiculous — the “holocaust” is a huge cash cow for the Jews.

    The “six million” is a lie – the consensus number is 500,000 to 1.5 million dead Jews – truly an ungodly numbers. Fifty million died in WWII – Jews represent 2% of the deaths. Yet we can see that they get 98% of the victimization press.

    What is particularly vexing is that they have used this lopsided press to cause havoc in the ME. Truly, the stealing of Palestine from its thousand year inhabitants is a great crime.

    The Six Million Lie – is bringing The Stain of Palestine to the worlds Jews.

    You cannot lie to all the people all the time.

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Benji Gold
    [Using a variety of different handles to conceal your identity is not permitted here. Use a single handle (or Anonymous/Anon), or prepare to see your comments trashed, or perhaps instead your other identity revealed.]

    Yo Fart,

    Name me one serious historian concordant with your views. You're a straw-man Farty. No historian has ever validated the number of six-million. The Russians, right after the war estimated that tens of millions died. Today the primary mode of thought is 1.5 million. You're bringing something up fallacious to seem smart. Worst form of argument. But this is irrelevant. (By the way, I'm not sure where you're coming up with this 98% victimization press theory, Basic high school history courses do not spend as much time on the holocaust, nor do the textbooks devote 98% of their WWII chapters to the Jewish extermination. Bad hyperbole.)

    You clearly show no understanding in basic historic cycles. You cannot fence in a piece of land and say it's yours forever, thats simply childish. One could easily make the argument that all the man-made borders are irrelevant in that case and that all land is stolen. Its a ridiculous string of thought. Wars and campaigns have decided the major rulers of lands across the globe. On a global scale, land isn't proprietary. Should we give back Italy all the land it "stole" at the hand of Caesar's campaigns? In fact, I could just as easily say that your thousand year inhabitants stole the land from the Jews that were there 2 thousand years ago, and now we've taken it back. You're posing a circular argument for a whiny, lazy, and un-accomplished people.
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  88. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor
    "The film is fiction. If we’re talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim."

    Look, I know the film is a speculation of what may have happened. No one really knows.

    But one thing is for sure. There were passengers on that plane, and, as show in the movie, some called their loved ones from the plane.

    So, a hijacking did happen. So, what happened to those passengers? Were they and their family members all 'actors' hired by the gubment? Were they killed by the gubment and was the whole thing shushed up? I mean come on.

    I know there is a lot of bad shit happening in gubment, but... imagine someone in CIA or some organization going to a bunch of underlings and saying, "look, fellers, we are gonna carry out this false flag operation you see, and we are gonna kill a bunch of American passengers on a US plane and make it seem like the terrorists done it."

    I mean what is the chance of anyone in gubment going along with such lunacy? I know there are some psychopaths in the US government, but that is bridge too far.

    but… imagine someone in CIA or some organization going to a bunch of underlings and saying, “look, fellers, we are gonna carry out this false flag operation you see, and we are gonna kill a bunch of American passengers on a US plane and make it seem like the terrorists done it.”

    they would never even think of such a thing!!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    imagine people at the highest levels of the US government deciding on a plan of lies and treachery to foist a war upon an innocent country and people that would ultimately slaughter and maim and displace millions, not to mention slaughtering and maiming tens of thousands of young Americans. All with a deliberate agenda to bolster Israel. Can you imagine such a thing? Can you imagine our very own CIA and all the other acronyms of Satan taking part in such an operation?

    why it’s madness!

    it’s also exactly what was done

    Not just to Iraq, but to several other countries as well.

    If you think that elements at the highest levels of our government and media are not capable of telling murderous lies that will recklessly get thousand of Americans killed and maimed, (not to mention millions of innocent civilians slaughtered, maimed and ruined) you’re a little more naïve than I think you are. Indeed, I suspect this myopic gullibility is a bit of deliberate obtuseness.

    every single war of the last century was based on lies and false flags

    every single one, and hundreds of millions perished in the conflagrations; to the ecstatic elation of all Zionists everywhere.

    and we all know that the Bush administration was hell bent on war from day one. That’s why Bush’s Treasury secretary Paul O’Neill resigned in disgust, because he said Bush and the rest of the war pig scum were intent on a war with Iraq from day one. Long before 911 even happened.

    They are stone-cold psychopaths Priss. And ideological Zionists = genocidal fiends. You of all people ought to be able to wrap your brain around that.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    Read the wiki entry you supplied.

    "The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the US government's anti-communist Cuban Project, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy. According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals."

    It was rejected because it was too crazy. Exactly my point.

    Sure, there are nutters in US government coming up with crazy plans. But killing Americans is too risky.

    I think US government would approve of killing foreigners in false flag operations.
    But killing Americans would risk too much, and such plan could not see the light of day.

    However, I'm willing to believe that some in the US government may have known an attack on Americans was imminent but didn't take decisive action because the ensuing crisis would give US the chance to take decisive action.

    This has been said of Pearl Harbor, i.e. FDR knew it was gonna happen but remained mum about it. I dunno.

    Of 9/11, I think there were some in US and Israel government who knew something was up but played dumb because something like 9/11 would unleash a jackpot of opportunities for US to do as it pleases in the Middle East.
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  89. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @5371
    You can read Persian?

    dey gots dis new google machine and dontcha know it can translate dozens of languages !!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Someone has put Khomeini's original text on the internet? You can provide a link to it in that case.
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  90. “There is no mention of any gas chamber. At the bottom of the first page, there is something about using “gas trucks” and firearms to kill Jews.

    “gas trucks”

    Henry said, “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.””

    Umm, it’s well known that the German Einsatzgruppen carried out mass shootings of hundreds of thousands of Jews in 1941 (ever heard of Babi Yar?); same applies to the use of gas vans…this is known to anybody with even a basic knowledge of the Holocaust, bizarre to see this cited as “evidence” for Holocaust denial.
    Seriously, I’m pretty far right myself…but this stuff is simply insane.

    Read More
    • Replies: @avraham
    Thanks for that information. I had not known that fact.
    , @Alden
    There is a lot of evidence that Babi Yar never happened either Remember the Russian communists were heavily Jews.
    So many of the people killed by the Germans in Russia were communist government workers who just happened to be Jews.

    I myself tend to believe the holocaust never happened simply because almost everything Jewish officialdom says is a lie.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    hundreds of thousands??

    Documents exist having Einsatzgruppen killing 33, 7__ something -- the exact number is stated, in a German doc.

    There's another instance of German soldiers killing 43,000.

    But did you ever calculate how much time and effort it takes to shoot "hundreds of thousands?"

    The "gas vans" -- the holocaust industry reported that "Jews were packed into diesel trucks, hoses run from the exhaust to the back of the truck, and the Jews inside killed."
    except that diesel fumes don't kill.
    ooops.

    Mark Weber wrote recently about uncovering documents showing that a shed -- "the white house" -- behind one of the camps was used to gas prisoners. It was a smallish house, certainly not the industrial scale killing alleged in the gas chamber mythology.

    In the first military actions against Russians, Stalin's soldiers surrendered by the hundreds of thousands, into the millions. Germans could neither keep them penned up nor feed them. Many were summarily killed. These were soldiers, mano a mano.
    In the face of these mass surrenders, Zhukov created groups that would kill any Russian soldier who did not advance. Any Russian soldier who surrendered or survived POW internment would be exiled or killed upon return to Russia, and his family would be exiled. So one way or the other, the plight of Russian soldiers was not optimistic.

    Both David Engel (prof at NYU & TelAviv U) and Timothy Snyder (prof at Yale) have published and spoken on the reality that many, many Jews were killed not by Germans but by the citizens of the places where they dwelt -- Poles killed Jews; Czechs killed Jews; Hungarians killed Jews, in many instances, far more Jews were killed by people who had been neighbors and countrymen of Jews than by warring or occupying Germans.

    It's significant that even Frenchmen turned Jews over to Germans.

    Payback's a baetch.
    , @iffen
    …but this stuff is simply insane

    SC and ilk worship your grandparents; it's a religion.
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  91. vinteuil says:
    @Priss Factor
    You're relying on a blog called shoestring911?

    http://shoestring911.blogspot.com

    You gotta be shi**in' me.

    Anonymny, you just slipped out of character.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    What? When was I ever a conspiracy nut?
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  92. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Rurik

    but… imagine someone in CIA or some organization going to a bunch of underlings and saying, “look, fellers, we are gonna carry out this false flag operation you see, and we are gonna kill a bunch of American passengers on a US plane and make it seem like the terrorists done it.”
     
    they would never even think of such a thing!!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

    imagine people at the highest levels of the US government deciding on a plan of lies and treachery to foist a war upon an innocent country and people that would ultimately slaughter and maim and displace millions, not to mention slaughtering and maiming tens of thousands of young Americans. All with a deliberate agenda to bolster Israel. Can you imagine such a thing? Can you imagine our very own CIA and all the other acronyms of Satan taking part in such an operation?

    why it's madness!

    it's also exactly what was done

    Not just to Iraq, but to several other countries as well.

    If you think that elements at the highest levels of our government and media are not capable of telling murderous lies that will recklessly get thousand of Americans killed and maimed, (not to mention millions of innocent civilians slaughtered, maimed and ruined) you're a little more naïve than I think you are. Indeed, I suspect this myopic gullibility is a bit of deliberate obtuseness.

    every single war of the last century was based on lies and false flags

    every single one, and hundreds of millions perished in the conflagrations; to the ecstatic elation of all Zionists everywhere.

    and we all know that the Bush administration was hell bent on war from day one. That's why Bush's Treasury secretary Paul O'Neill resigned in disgust, because he said Bush and the rest of the war pig scum were intent on a war with Iraq from day one. Long before 911 even happened.

    They are stone-cold psychopaths Priss. And ideological Zionists = genocidal fiends. You of all people ought to be able to wrap your brain around that.

    Read the wiki entry you supplied.

    “The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the US government’s anti-communist Cuban Project, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy. According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals.”

    It was rejected because it was too crazy. Exactly my point.

    Sure, there are nutters in US government coming up with crazy plans. But killing Americans is too risky.

    I think US government would approve of killing foreigners in false flag operations.
    But killing Americans would risk too much, and such plan could not see the light of day.

    However, I’m willing to believe that some in the US government may have known an attack on Americans was imminent but didn’t take decisive action because the ensuing crisis would give US the chance to take decisive action.

    This has been said of Pearl Harbor, i.e. FDR knew it was gonna happen but remained mum about it. I dunno.

    Of 9/11, I think there were some in US and Israel government who knew something was up but played dumb because something like 9/11 would unleash a jackpot of opportunities for US to do as it pleases in the Middle East.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    But killing Americans would risk too much
     
    they did it with the cameras rolling:

    http://victimasectas.com/Terrorismo/USA/WacoEj.jpg

    all they had to do is call the victims "whackos" and say the children were molested, (and so they apparently deserved to die)

    - it has turned out that the FBI lied about using flammable gas canisters during the Waco siege and also people were shot with automatic weapons at the only exit as the flames consumed the compound, so we can dispense with the silly notion that the US gov wouldn't dare kill an American. They do so all the time. They assassinated that American Muslim and his son by drone, and they also assassinated Michael Hastings and didn't even try to hide it. They have passed laws that give them the legal authorization to black-bag and rendition Americans to off-shore torture sites based on secret evidence from anonymous government agents claiming national security as their pretext without legal recourse or even charges. What the **** more proof do you need that they are capable of anything?

    Of 9/11, I think there were some in US and Israel government who knew something was up but played dumb because something like 9/11 would unleash a jackpot of opportunities for US to do as it pleases in the Middle East
     
    you're right about the bold text part, that's for sure

    but building seven was a controlled demolition, and Osama and his nineteen henchmen didn't rig it, nor did Osama tell the BBC and Fox News that it was going to come down, before it did. That shit was done at the highest levels of our gov/media.

    I’m willing to believe that some in the US government may have known an attack on Americans was imminent but didn’t take decisive action because the ensuing crisis would give US the chance to take decisive action.
     
    they did it

    they didn't just sit by and let it happen

    they (Israel, Cheney, Zelikow, Rabbi Zakheim and assorted neocons did it in order to get their wars. And Lucky Larry to get his shekels)

    the evidence that they did it is irrefutable

    >><<

    and why were there no bodies or luggage or other debris at Shanksville?

    could it be that maybe they lied about what happened to flight 93?

    could it be that they lied about the Pentagon, and that's why there are no videos of any plane?

    could it be that they lied about WMD?

    could it be that they lied about Syrian gas attacks?

    could it be that they lied about Putin shooting down the plane?

    like their lies and murderous treachery and false flag attack on the USS Liberty?

    could it be that they're a den of murderous psychopaths who lie with every feculent breath?

    hmm
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  93. Rehmat says:
    @anon
    anonymous jew coward. hey ramhat is that your full name ? if not , you are just as big a coward as him . btw recently released studies reveal pakistani men like yourself to be the 2nd weakest in the world behind bengladeshis LoL.

    here is ayatollah khomeinis thoughts on sex with animals :
    “A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.”  – From Khomeini’s book,Tahrir al-Vasyleh, fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990
    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    Ramhat, When I think of you and your assuredly birth defect riddled body , due of course to the intergenerational incestuous marriages in Islamic families in Paksitan , I am always reminded of the Great Jewish General of the Indian Army , One JFR Jacob . I am sure you are familiar with his work , i.e. bringing the Islamic Republic of Pakistans army ( staffed with the 2nd weakest men in the world according to new studies ) to its knees in total defeat and unconditional surrender to India .

    I love to see the faces on those generals of the Islamic mujehadeen of the Pakistan army surrendering to a JEW , who completely out maneuvered them and totally worked them over !!!!
    Seriously how embarrassing is it for you and our fellow Pakistanis to pretend to be so tough and such great mujehadeen , thinking you are superior to jews ,outnumbering jews 100 to 1, while the whole world knows you had to get on your knees and accept unconditional surrender to a JEW , the great JFR Jacobs .

    I guess you guys console yourselves with being number 1 or number 2 in the world in so many metrics . For instance :
    Number 1 in the world for birth defects !!!!!!
    Number 1 in the world for most inbred / incestuous population !!!!
    Number 1 in most degraded genetics in the world !!!!
    Number 2 for worlds weakest men !!!!!!!

    Yaay Pakistan !!!!!!!
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  94. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @SolontoCroesus

    You’re relying on a blog called shoestring911?
    You gotta be shi**in’ me.
     
    iow you can't prove whether Barbara Olsen did or did not use a telephone or place calls to her husband.

    check.

    btw -- above, @ 78. you wrote in response to

    Paul C: “The film is fiction. If we’re talking about truth, provide the pictures that backup your claim.”

    You responded:

    Look, I know the film is a speculation of what may have happened. No one really knows.

    But one thing is for sure.
    There were passengers on that plane, and, as show in the movie, some called their loved ones from the plane.

    So, a hijacking did happen.
     
    -- You didn't provide a picture or other proof.
    -- You acknowledged that film is speculation; you repeated that, with a little Anonymny homily for emphasis, in comment # 79, where you wrote:

    Movie logic doesn’t apply to real life.

    Which I take to mean, making up stories from the windmills of your mind is not reality; it is not evidence or proof or the truth that Paul C. is striving for.

    So how do you get from "No one really knows" . . . to "One thing is for sure?"
    The same way Thelma and Louise fly into the Grand Canyon in a convertible, then Susan Sarandon and Geena Davis make public appearances last April to promote the movie's 25th anniversary? (heh. holocaust survivors.)

    What evidence, what proof do you have, Anonymny?

    I remember seeing a TV interview with some of the family members of the victims of United 93.

    You mean they were actors?

    Why don’t you give it up?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Paul C.
    You've answered my question. You have no proof, because none exists. How is it possible that a plane crashes in Shanksville and then disappears? How is it possible a plane hits the Pentagon but there's no evidence of it?

    The interview is a distraction. Would you know the difference between a real interview versus a staged one? Likely not. You need to look at the evidence. 3 towers fell at nearly free fall speed. The structure should have provided resistance in each case. Controlled demolitions, without a doubt.

    I suspect you know this though.
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  95. Alden says:
    @5371
    You can read Persian?

    Reading Persian is not that unusual in some parts of America. If I walk less than 2 blocks to the neighborhood senior center any weekday, I can find between 20 and 100 Persian speakers who would be happy to translate.
    Less than a mile away is a major hospital medical office complex All I would have to do is walk in and ask random Whites if they could translate Persian for me and I’d find someone in 10 minutes or less.

    Such is multiculturalism and unlimited immigration.
    What I would not find working in that medical center is European descent Whites.

    Read More
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  96. avraham says:
    @German_reader
    "There is no mention of any gas chamber. At the bottom of the first page, there is something about using “gas trucks” and firearms to kill Jews.

    “gas trucks”

    Henry said, “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.”"

    Umm, it's well known that the German Einsatzgruppen carried out mass shootings of hundreds of thousands of Jews in 1941 (ever heard of Babi Yar?); same applies to the use of gas vans...this is known to anybody with even a basic knowledge of the Holocaust, bizarre to see this cited as "evidence" for Holocaust denial.
    Seriously, I'm pretty far right myself...but this stuff is simply insane.

    Thanks for that information. I had not known that fact.

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  97. Alden says:
    @German_reader
    "There is no mention of any gas chamber. At the bottom of the first page, there is something about using “gas trucks” and firearms to kill Jews.

    “gas trucks”

    Henry said, “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.”"

    Umm, it's well known that the German Einsatzgruppen carried out mass shootings of hundreds of thousands of Jews in 1941 (ever heard of Babi Yar?); same applies to the use of gas vans...this is known to anybody with even a basic knowledge of the Holocaust, bizarre to see this cited as "evidence" for Holocaust denial.
    Seriously, I'm pretty far right myself...but this stuff is simply insane.

    There is a lot of evidence that Babi Yar never happened either Remember the Russian communists were heavily Jews.
    So many of the people killed by the Germans in Russia were communist government workers who just happened to be Jews.

    I myself tend to believe the holocaust never happened simply because almost everything Jewish officialdom says is a lie.

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    • Replies: @Art
    I myself tend to believe the holocaust never happened simply because almost everything Jewish officialdom says is a lie.

    You mean like Israel's IDF is the most moral army in the world?

    Israeli army withdraws from Al-Fawwar, after killing one Palestinian, injuring 59, and searching dozens of homes

    The Israeli army withdrew, late on Tuesday at night, from the al-Fawwar refugee camp, south of Hebron, in the southern part of the occupied West Bank, after concluding a massive military invasion, leading to the death of one Palestinian, while at least 59 others have been injured and dozens of homes invaded and ransacked.

    https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/israeli-army-withdraws-from-al-fawwar-after-killing-one-palestinian-injuring-59-and-searching-dozens-of-homes/
     
    How about this?

    Army Razes Farmland in Hebron

    Israeli army bulldozers, on Wednesday morning, have reportedly leveled Palestinian-owned lands to the south of Hebron province.

    A local journalist in Hebron said, according to the PNN, that the Israeli army destroyed a water tank and bulldozed Palestinian lands covering an area of 15 dunams in the western town of Beit Oula, in the southern occupied West Bank.


    http://imemc.org/article/army-razes-farmland-in-hebron/
     
    The outrage just goes on and on - what devils!
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  98. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @vinteuil
    Anonymny, you just slipped out of character.

    What? When was I ever a conspiracy nut?

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    • Replies: @vinteuil
    sorry, a - I just meant that it's unusual for you to write so succinctly & rationally.
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  99. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Rehmat
    Hi anon - Is your real name is Zionist Israeli pig?

    http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2016/05/29/jewish-student-kicked-called-zionist-pig-during-an-anti-israel-protest-in-toronto.html

    Ramhat, When I think of you and your assuredly birth defect riddled body , due of course to the intergenerational incestuous marriages in Islamic families in Paksitan , I am always reminded of the Great Jewish General of the Indian Army , One JFR Jacob . I am sure you are familiar with his work , i.e. bringing the Islamic Republic of Pakistans army ( staffed with the 2nd weakest men in the world according to new studies ) to its knees in total defeat and unconditional surrender to India .

    I love to see the faces on those generals of the Islamic mujehadeen of the Pakistan army surrendering to a JEW , who completely out maneuvered them and totally worked them over !!!!
    Seriously how embarrassing is it for you and our fellow Pakistanis to pretend to be so tough and such great mujehadeen , thinking you are superior to jews ,outnumbering jews 100 to 1, while the whole world knows you had to get on your knees and accept unconditional surrender to a JEW , the great JFR Jacobs .

    I guess you guys console yourselves with being number 1 or number 2 in the world in so many metrics . For instance :
    Number 1 in the world for birth defects !!!!!!
    Number 1 in the world for most inbred / incestuous population !!!!
    Number 1 in most degraded genetics in the world !!!!
    Number 2 for worlds weakest men !!!!!!!

    Yaay Pakistan !!!!!!!

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  100. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor
    Read the wiki entry you supplied.

    "The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the US government's anti-communist Cuban Project, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authorized by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy. According to currently released documentation, none of the operations became active under the auspices of the Operation Northwoods proposals."

    It was rejected because it was too crazy. Exactly my point.

    Sure, there are nutters in US government coming up with crazy plans. But killing Americans is too risky.

    I think US government would approve of killing foreigners in false flag operations.
    But killing Americans would risk too much, and such plan could not see the light of day.

    However, I'm willing to believe that some in the US government may have known an attack on Americans was imminent but didn't take decisive action because the ensuing crisis would give US the chance to take decisive action.

    This has been said of Pearl Harbor, i.e. FDR knew it was gonna happen but remained mum about it. I dunno.

    Of 9/11, I think there were some in US and Israel government who knew something was up but played dumb because something like 9/11 would unleash a jackpot of opportunities for US to do as it pleases in the Middle East.

    But killing Americans would risk too much

    they did it with the cameras rolling:

    all they had to do is call the victims “whackos” and say the children were molested, (and so they apparently deserved to die)

    - it has turned out that the FBI lied about using flammable gas canisters during the Waco siege and also people were shot with automatic weapons at the only exit as the flames consumed the compound, so we can dispense with the silly notion that the US gov wouldn’t dare kill an American. They do so all the time. They assassinated that American Muslim and his son by drone, and they also assassinated Michael Hastings and didn’t even try to hide it. They have passed laws that give them the legal authorization to black-bag and rendition Americans to off-shore torture sites based on secret evidence from anonymous government agents claiming national security as their pretext without legal recourse or even charges. What the **** more proof do you need that they are capable of anything?

    Of 9/11, I think there were some in US and Israel government who knew something was up but played dumb because something like 9/11 would unleash a jackpot of opportunities for US to do as it pleases in the Middle East

    you’re right about the bold text part, that’s for sure

    but building seven was a controlled demolition, and Osama and his nineteen henchmen didn’t rig it, nor did Osama tell the BBC and Fox News that it was going to come down, before it did. That shit was done at the highest levels of our gov/media.

    I’m willing to believe that some in the US government may have known an attack on Americans was imminent but didn’t take decisive action because the ensuing crisis would give US the chance to take decisive action.

    they did it

    they didn’t just sit by and let it happen

    they (Israel, Cheney, Zelikow, Rabbi Zakheim and assorted neocons did it in order to get their wars. And Lucky Larry to get his shekels)

    the evidence that they did it is irrefutable

    >><<

    and why were there no bodies or luggage or other debris at Shanksville?

    could it be that maybe they lied about what happened to flight 93?

    could it be that they lied about the Pentagon, and that’s why there are no videos of any plane?

    could it be that they lied about WMD?

    could it be that they lied about Syrian gas attacks?

    could it be that they lied about Putin shooting down the plane?

    like their lies and murderous treachery and false flag attack on the USS Liberty?

    could it be that they’re a den of murderous psychopaths who lie with every feculent breath?

    hmm

    Read More
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "all they had to do is call the victims 'whackos' and say the children were molested, (and so they apparently deserved to die)"

    I don't know what happened exactly at Waco. But it is a fact that there was a wacky cult led by some nut. He also violated a bunch of gun laws and stuff. It was a crazy religious cult, no doubt about it. Did the government handle the problem responsibly? I don't think so, and I think most people don't think so. But it was a botched attempt at law enforcement.

    It was not a false flag operation. The government didn't create this cult, and the people in the compound were not 'actors' or agents pretending to make trouble. They were real weirdos.

    Your kind of conspiracy theorizing is on a different level. You're not talking of government incompetence or abuse of power in enforcement. You are saying the US government would create the very situation in which innocent Americans would get killed.
    It'd be like saying David Koresh was just a government agent. That no one really died in the standoff between US government and the Waco cultists. That it was all make-believe just to expand government power. Or, it's like saying the US government created the cult in order to bring about the violence that would expand government power.

    I mean if we are at it, why not say Timothy McVeigh was either a patsy or a government agent. Maybe he didn't blow up the building and was only brainwashed into thinking he did. Or maybe he wasn't executed. Maybe his death was faked, and he's still alive somewhere.

    Now, there are plenty of people in US government who would stop at nothing to get what they want. A lot of people who enter politics and government are sociopaths and psychopaths. It's like the fruitkin agent in NO WAY OUT or the slimeball in CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. There are lots of good people in government, but some people just love power and wouldn't hesitate to do all sorts of slimeball stuff to get their way. Nixon had some real dirtbags working for him. So yes, morally a lot of people in government are capable of doing just about ANYTHING to get what they want.

    If these people in US government had the power of Old USSR or Red China, they would be doing horrible things. Indeed, most people in US government are no better(or worse) than most people in communist or fascist regimes. It's just that there are more checks and balances against total abuse of power in the US. Stalin and Mao could get away with killing of millions. In the US, even killing a few lives can be risky as hell for US government. Now, most Americans don't care if US actions lead to deaths of foreigners, even lots of them. But when it comes to US citizens, even the linkage of ONE death by government abuse of power could have huge repercussions. So, with such fear of consequences, people in US government have to think twice, thrice, frice, fiftice, etc. before deciding to pull some stunt where Americans will die.

    Now, there may be rogue elements in US government who might be plotting some dirty deed, but the idea of US president or top chiefs of any agency signing onto a plot that targets innocent US citizens? I don't see it. Not because such people aren't morally capable of it --- some of them are sociopath scum --- but because even psychos must know that the risks are too high.

    US government did infiltrate radical groups and encouraged their self-destructive tendencies. In Italy, there have been rumors and accusations that some of the Red terror in the 70s were actually carried out be far-right groups or rogue elements in the government. It comes more naturally to greasers maybe. They got that mafia culture thing, even in government.

    9/11 attack was huge. It was too big for rogue elements to pull it off. So, if it was a conspiracy done by the US government, it means the top people in various departments had to have been involved. It is simply incredible that all those people would sign onto a plot where 1000s of Americans would die in an attack on NY and Pentagon. There's no way US plotted this.
    At most, some rogue elements in US and Israel knew something was up but remained silent because the ensuing crisis would give US a window of opportunity to do whatever it wanted to in the Middle East for several yrs. The fact that US cannot smoke out those elements is the real shame of the nation. We know why. If it connects to Israel, there will be hell to pay. And the Jewish elites who run the US won't allow it. Just like they won't allow the full narrative of what really happened to USS Liberty.

    "but building seven was a controlled demolition"

    No, it wasn't. Read David Cole on the matter. He is totally convincing.

    http://takimag.com/article/enough_with_the_truthers_already_david_cole/print#axzz4HeL1ln8I

    One thing is certain. A lot of people in US government are sociopaths or sycophants(maybe they should be called psychophants). Sociopaths have no qualms about anything. And sycophants are so into their career and promotion that they just go along with the powers that be.

    From the Ukraine Crisis and Libya/Syria, I learned how vile, vicious, dirty, and lowdown people in US government can be. And the Western Media. So, if these people had the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin had, they would stop at nothing to push their ruthless demented agenda. And US agents have a freer reign to pull dirty shit OUTSIDE the US with non-US citizens.
    But when it comes to Americans, it is too risky for US government to have them killed(esp 1000s of them) just to push some agenda.

    However, in the War on Terror, we've seen how the line between US citizen and foreigner is getting blurred.
    There was a time when an American Citizen mostly referred to white Americans(and also to black Americans)with roots in American history. So, there was a clear distinction between American and non-American.

    But with massive immigration and rising Diversity, the meaning of 'American', 'citizen' , and 'foreigner' isn't as clear anymore. (Even the meaning of 'legal' and 'illegal' isn't clear anymore. PC says referring to any person as 'illegal' is dehumanizing'. We live in a nation that has trouble telling the difference between 'man' and 'woman', between true marriage and 'gay marriage'.)
    When 'American' meant white American with considerable roots in American land and history, the idea of US government killing US citizens would have sounded appalling.
    And when it came to US blacks, the mantra is their rights must be respected with Miranda rights. Richard Daley got hell for saying 'shoot to kill, shoot to maim'. So, even when blacks burn, loot, and kill, their rights must be respected and there must be due process. But in overseas ventures, if people get out of line, US military can just mow down entire peoples like in Serbia and Somalia. (And Americans sure don't care about all those dead Palestinians killed by Zionists and Yemenis killed by Saudis as allies of US.) But with so many US citizens now being non-white newcomers with shallow roots(and who move back and forth between the West and non-West), Americans are more willing to accept the 'right' of US government to kill US citizens if they are engaged in terrorism or suspected of such. These 'US citizens' are seen as foreign terrorists who just happened to have acquired US citizenship without genuine love of country.

    The dangerous implication of this logic is as follows: Killing foreign terrorists is a must. No need for due process and rule of law. Just kill the scumbag. If a Muslim US citizen is abroad and aiding terrorists, he too is a terrorist and should be killed on the spot. It violates due process, but since terrorists deserved to die, priority deems that he must killed too and due process must take the backseat. Such logic establishes that US citizen can be killed without due process for terror. But it sets the template that US government doesn't need due process to kill an American citizen. And if terror is used as the justification today, what will be invoked to kill US citizens in the future? And if Muslim US citizens are killed today, might it lead to the killing of white US citizens as well? Maybe for 'hate crimes'? With US government turning global than national, white American patriots in the future might be seen the way foreign terrorists are seen today. Today, terrorists abroad must killed for resisting US hegemony. Tomorrow, patriotic white 'haters' may have to be killed by US government for resisting Inclusive Globalist Hegemony.

    This is the problem of mass immigration and diversity. Notice how terrorist attack happens, and then the attacker is mentioned as a 'Norwegian' or 'Frenchman' or 'German' or 'Briton' when he is clearly an Arab or Muslim or some such. When Norwegians were all white, the idea of killing a Norwegian without due process would have been horrific. But with 'Norwegians' committing acts of terror and EU turning into a militarized zone, the authorities are more prone to gun down suspects terrorists on the spot without due process... even if they person is legally a 'European'. But if 'Europeans' could be killed without due process today for terror, might not real Europeans be killed without due process over some other excuse in the future?

    Even up to the early 90s, the term 'American' immediately invoked the image of White American with some roots in American history. But with massive immigration and promotion of Diversity, it is no longer so. Say 'American' today, and people see Diversity. So, American can mean some Muslim who's been in the US for just several yrs and got citizenship. He or she is deemed just as 'American' as Americans with ancestry going back to Mayflower. And with easy and cheap air travel, this 'American' might travel back and forth often between US and his native country. And with cellphone and internet, he could be communicating with people back home and even be plotting with them to pull some bad shit in the US. It could be terror or some fraud scheme like those pulled by Nigerians or Pakistanis. And all those Chinese with their birth tourism. They come here pregnant to have 'American' kids who are entitled to all the goodies.

    If the meaning of 'American' becomes so vague, and there is no longer any clear distinction between us and them, between whites and non-whites, then things may indeed get scarier for Americans.

    Traditionally, Americans haven't cared what the US government does overseas as long as it respects the Rights of US citizens. So, if US military mowed down 1000s of Somalis like in BLACKHAWK DOWN, no big deal. But if one Negro is killed under funny circumstances in the US, it is a very big deal.

    But as 'us and them' becomes blurred, 'they' are 'us' and 'we' are 'they'. And if US government can attack and kill 'them' by the bushel, and if 'they' and 'us' can no longer be told apart, it means US government may kill 'us' as 'them'.

    Indeed, this is related to the White Death phenom. US government no longer sees white American working class as True Americans with roots in the US. People whose ancestors built this nation. Instead, they are seen much like white people once used to regard American Indians. People who need to be pushed aside to make for the New Americans. So, 'they' become the new 'us'. This makes US more 'inclusive', but Americans nevertheless still don't care when US is killing bushels of foreigners abroad.
    I mean there never was a Iraqi Lives Matter when all those bombs were being dropped on Iraq. There never was a Libyan Lives Matter when US was turning Libyan cities to rubble. So, this invite/invade stuff is leading to some schizo-americanism.
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  101. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The article is sad on so many levels . The guy supposedly interviewed is a sad case . He believes every conspiracy theory he has ever encountered . he claims :

    I’m opposed to people who support Israel, because I’m against genocide.”

    Thats a curious thing to say . In 1967 the Palestinian Population in Israel was 900,000, now in 2016 it is 5.2 million. More than 500% increase. Some genocide. In the entirety of the Israel Palestinian conflict beginning in 1967 , 22,000 Palestinians have been killed . To put that in context , since the 1963 occupation of Papua by Indonesia , 500,000 Papuans have been killed , also since 1990 over 1 million people have been killed in Darfur by the Islamic Republic of Sudan . Darfur and Papua are real genocides committed by Islamic regimes . Does he protest these real genocides ??

    But Lin Din let out a random kernel of truth , a truth we have seen so many time here before :

    My wife sometimes says, “Ummm, you’re always angry. Why?”

    How many times have we seen peoples unhinged jew hatred be internalized and ruin their life . Turning their anger inside and adopting proxies ( jews ) to attack instead of their real problems. He admits he is always angry . Is this a way to go thru life ? He admits his wife dislikes it . it probably has ruined his marriage to a degree.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "...unhinged jew hatred..."
    See the US ziocons.
    , @5371
    [In 1967 the Palestinian Population in Israel was 900,000, now in 2016 it is 5.2 million. More than 500% increase. Some genocide.]

    In 1800 there were about 1 million Jews in the world, now there are more than 15 million. More than 1400% increase. Some holocaust.

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  102. Rednecks with home video of hunting Indians? WTF
    LD finds a prize winner without even going to the bar.

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  103. @German_reader
    "There is no mention of any gas chamber. At the bottom of the first page, there is something about using “gas trucks” and firearms to kill Jews.

    “gas trucks”

    Henry said, “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.”"

    Umm, it's well known that the German Einsatzgruppen carried out mass shootings of hundreds of thousands of Jews in 1941 (ever heard of Babi Yar?); same applies to the use of gas vans...this is known to anybody with even a basic knowledge of the Holocaust, bizarre to see this cited as "evidence" for Holocaust denial.
    Seriously, I'm pretty far right myself...but this stuff is simply insane.

    hundreds of thousands??

    Documents exist having Einsatzgruppen killing 33, 7__ something — the exact number is stated, in a German doc.

    There’s another instance of German soldiers killing 43,000.

    But did you ever calculate how much time and effort it takes to shoot “hundreds of thousands?”

    The “gas vans” — the holocaust industry reported that “Jews were packed into diesel trucks, hoses run from the exhaust to the back of the truck, and the Jews inside killed.”
    except that diesel fumes don’t kill.
    ooops.

    Mark Weber wrote recently about uncovering documents showing that a shed — “the white house” — behind one of the camps was used to gas prisoners. It was a smallish house, certainly not the industrial scale killing alleged in the gas chamber mythology.

    In the first military actions against Russians, Stalin’s soldiers surrendered by the hundreds of thousands, into the millions. Germans could neither keep them penned up nor feed them. Many were summarily killed. These were soldiers, mano a mano.
    In the face of these mass surrenders, Zhukov created groups that would kill any Russian soldier who did not advance. Any Russian soldier who surrendered or survived POW internment would be exiled or killed upon return to Russia, and his family would be exiled. So one way or the other, the plight of Russian soldiers was not optimistic.

    Both David Engel (prof at NYU & TelAviv U) and Timothy Snyder (prof at Yale) have published and spoken on the reality that many, many Jews were killed not by Germans but by the citizens of the places where they dwelt — Poles killed Jews; Czechs killed Jews; Hungarians killed Jews, in many instances, far more Jews were killed by people who had been neighbors and countrymen of Jews than by warring or occupying Germans.

    It’s significant that even Frenchmen turned Jews over to Germans.

    Payback’s a baetch.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I do not care about events that happened long ago. But the statement

    except that diesel fumes don’t kill.
     
    is plane stupid, and only extremely uneducated person could make it.
    Consider usual gas that one burns for cooking in the kitchen. When methane burns, there are no fumes, almost no smell. But C-O_2 is the product of burning, and in the absence of exchange with external atmosphere, this C-O_2 kills, since there is not enough oxygen left.
    I doubt the wisdom of the rest of statements of that commenter, but I do not care about them.
    , @anon

    diesel fumes don’t kill.
     
    They don't ?? Hey why don't you pump them into a closed space and inhale for a several minutes and report the results here !!!!!! ??????

    But before you do , would you please give me a few blunt's worth of whatever greens you be smokin !!!!!!!
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  104. Art says:
    @Alden
    There is a lot of evidence that Babi Yar never happened either Remember the Russian communists were heavily Jews.
    So many of the people killed by the Germans in Russia were communist government workers who just happened to be Jews.

    I myself tend to believe the holocaust never happened simply because almost everything Jewish officialdom says is a lie.

    I myself tend to believe the holocaust never happened simply because almost everything Jewish officialdom says is a lie.

    You mean like Israel’s IDF is the most moral army in the world?

    Israeli army withdraws from Al-Fawwar, after killing one Palestinian, injuring 59, and searching dozens of homes

    The Israeli army withdrew, late on Tuesday at night, from the al-Fawwar refugee camp, south of Hebron, in the southern part of the occupied West Bank, after concluding a massive military invasion, leading to the death of one Palestinian, while at least 59 others have been injured and dozens of homes invaded and ransacked.

    https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/israeli-army-withdraws-from-al-fawwar-after-killing-one-palestinian-injuring-59-and-searching-dozens-of-homes/

    How about this?

    Army Razes Farmland in Hebron

    Israeli army bulldozers, on Wednesday morning, have reportedly leveled Palestinian-owned lands to the south of Hebron province.

    A local journalist in Hebron said, according to the PNN, that the Israeli army destroyed a water tank and bulldozed Palestinian lands covering an area of 15 dunams in the western town of Beit Oula, in the southern occupied West Bank.

    http://imemc.org/article/army-razes-farmland-in-hebron/

    The outrage just goes on and on – what devils!

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    • Replies: @anon
    http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/darfur-genocide

    The “Darfur Genocide” refers to the current mass slaughter and rape of Darfuri men, women and children in Western Sudan. The killings began in 2003 and continue still today, as the first genocide in the 21st century. As of today, over 480,000 people have been killed, and over 2.8 million people are displaced.
     
    In contrast to the 22,000 Palestinains have been killed since 1967.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/11/un-displaced-violence-darfur-

    20131114132610566629.html
    Al Jazeera reports that 460,000 have been displaced in Darfur in 2013 alone !!!!!!
     
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/WOMEN-TELL-OF-BRUTAL-RAPES-IN-SECRET-CAMP-2755619.php

    http://rense.com/general54/rapes.htm


    While African women in Darfur were being raped by the Janjaweed militiamen, Arab women stood nearby and sang for joy, according to an Amnesty International report published yesterday. The songs of the Hakama, or the "Janjaweed women" as the refugees call them, encouraged the atrocities committed by the militiamen.
     

    According to an African chief quoted in the report, the singers said: "The blood of the blacks runs like water, we take their goods and we chase them from our area and our cattle will be in their land. The power of [Sudanese president Omer Hassan] al-Bashir belongs to the Arabs and we will kill you until the end, you blacks, we have killed your God."
     
    So here you have a real genocide to get worked up about . This genocide has everything . Racism -Arab supremacists massacring the native black population . Ethnic cleansing and arabizing the population by rape in the form of the governnment militia known as the janjaweed. Muslim on religious minority killings . The president Omar Bashir wanted on genocide charges by the International criminal court .estimates of 480,000 killed to 2 million killed . Occupation . Why concentrate on fake genocides ??
    , @Jacques Sheete

    The outrage just goes on and on – what devils!
     
    For sure, and what rational person could even suspect stuff like this?:

    Israel’s Stolen Babies Remains the State’s Darkest Secret

    “The story of the stolen babies, however, offers the shock of the unexpected. These crimes were committed not against Palestinians but other Jews. The parents whose babies were abducted had arrived in the new state lured by promises that they would find in Israel a permanent sanctuary from persecution.


    The stolen babies were not randomly seized. A very specific group was targeted: Jews who had just immigrated from the Middle East. Most were from Yemen, with others from Iraq, Morocco and Tunisia.

    The Arabness of these Jews was viewed as a direct threat to the Jewish state’s survival, and one almost as serious as the presence of Palestinians. Israel set about “de-Arabising” these Middle Eastern Jews with the same steely determination with which it had just driven out most of the area’s Palestinians.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-stolen-babies-remains-the-states-darkest-secret/5540906?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles
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  105. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Art
    I myself tend to believe the holocaust never happened simply because almost everything Jewish officialdom says is a lie.

    You mean like Israel's IDF is the most moral army in the world?

    Israeli army withdraws from Al-Fawwar, after killing one Palestinian, injuring 59, and searching dozens of homes

    The Israeli army withdrew, late on Tuesday at night, from the al-Fawwar refugee camp, south of Hebron, in the southern part of the occupied West Bank, after concluding a massive military invasion, leading to the death of one Palestinian, while at least 59 others have been injured and dozens of homes invaded and ransacked.

    https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/israeli-army-withdraws-from-al-fawwar-after-killing-one-palestinian-injuring-59-and-searching-dozens-of-homes/
     
    How about this?

    Army Razes Farmland in Hebron

    Israeli army bulldozers, on Wednesday morning, have reportedly leveled Palestinian-owned lands to the south of Hebron province.

    A local journalist in Hebron said, according to the PNN, that the Israeli army destroyed a water tank and bulldozed Palestinian lands covering an area of 15 dunams in the western town of Beit Oula, in the southern occupied West Bank.


    http://imemc.org/article/army-razes-farmland-in-hebron/
     
    The outrage just goes on and on - what devils!

    http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/darfur-genocide

    The “Darfur Genocide” refers to the current mass slaughter and rape of Darfuri men, women and children in Western Sudan. The killings began in 2003 and continue still today, as the first genocide in the 21st century. As of today, over 480,000 people have been killed, and over 2.8 million people are displaced.

    In contrast to the 22,000 Palestinains have been killed since 1967.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/11/un-displaced-violence-darfur-

    20131114132610566629.html Al Jazeera reports that 460,000 have been displaced in Darfur in 2013 alone !!!!!!

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/WOMEN-TELL-OF-BRUTAL-RAPES-IN-SECRET-CAMP-2755619.php

    http://rense.com/general54/rapes.htm

    While African women in Darfur were being raped by the Janjaweed militiamen, Arab women stood nearby and sang for joy, according to an Amnesty International report published yesterday. The songs of the Hakama, or the “Janjaweed women” as the refugees call them, encouraged the atrocities committed by the militiamen.

    According to an African chief quoted in the report, the singers said: “The blood of the blacks runs like water, we take their goods and we chase them from our area and our cattle will be in their land. The power of [Sudanese president Omer Hassan] al-Bashir belongs to the Arabs and we will kill you until the end, you blacks, we have killed your God.”

    So here you have a real genocide to get worked up about . This genocide has everything . Racism -Arab supremacists massacring the native black population . Ethnic cleansing and arabizing the population by rape in the form of the governnment militia known as the janjaweed. Muslim on religious minority killings . The president Omar Bashir wanted on genocide charges by the International criminal court .estimates of 480,000 killed to 2 million killed . Occupation . Why concentrate on fake genocides ??

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    [While African women in Darfur were being raped by the Janjaweed militiamen, Arab women stood nearby and sang for joy, according to an Amnesty International report published yesterday.]

    These are Africans, that's their excuse for claiming something so comical. What's your excuse for believing it?
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  106. @Art
    If you factor in the Greenfield- Simensen explanation forvthevsound lf explosions and collapse then what nystery is left?

    Say Wiz,

    As a non-Jew - you sure work your little fingers to the bone typing one defense of Jews after another.

    You now have to defend the "holocaust", 9/11, the US economic policy, and the US foreign policy.

    You must have a staggering intellect - that takes a boat load of endless lies - how do you do it?

    Kudos man.

    Art

    Except he doesn’t do it at all. The only support he gets here turn out to be from those cut from the same shabby, full of holes cloth.

    The ever increasing absurdity of his pathetic and nonsensical defences of the indefensible just goes to show that any idiot can become a lawyer then learn to lick arse well enough to teach others to do the same. Should one ever wonder just how it happens that so many lawyers turn out to be nothing more than lying wankers in the extreme take a read of Wiz’s posting history and understand that this “great” Wizard actually teaches at a level above primary school. Little wonder the west is doomed.

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  107. @edNels


    Now I know there was people who have been said to be lost from the passengers and crews of the several planes. Some from our are even.

    But really how sure can anybody be that the passengers ever existed or got on , or did ''said planes'' really fly that day? I mean in some of these events since then, there's conjecture of fake ''Crises Actors''and stuff so, how about fake documentation, cheaper by far.

    I don't remember anymore, but I guess there was lists of all the purported lost souls from that day, from the planes specifically, and they were from all over the country, as the planes were long haul to west coast, for the fuel load.

    Is that where Flight 93 passengers were transferred from 93 to planes to their new homes away from home?
     
    But did anybody ever undertake to do and exhaustive review of these individuals and were they really among the lost, did they all really ever exist etc.?

    Well if they did, then I doubt many are alive today, other than a few, who are living a luxurious life in South America, because, one, the number of ''souls'' lost, was too many to either relocate, or squelch, (too many witnesses, that's…Faux pas 101).

    Much easiier to fake the whole thing from the airport on, and faked the planes to, etc.

    Hell then, they probably took the real planes and ditched in the drink, and brought in fully automated droned surplus fuselages from out of mothballs. Pocket some change at every turn,
    just like the sly bastard too with that crooked smile.

    Apparently, the footage of the “high jackers” going through airport security at Boston airport that were repeated over and over were later found to be from footage taken on a day prior to 9/11.

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  108. annamaria says:
    @anon
    The article is sad on so many levels . The guy supposedly interviewed is a sad case . He believes every conspiracy theory he has ever encountered . he claims :


    I’m opposed to people who support Israel, because I’m against genocide.”
     

    Thats a curious thing to say . In 1967 the Palestinian Population in Israel was 900,000, now in 2016 it is 5.2 million. More than 500% increase. Some genocide. In the entirety of the Israel Palestinian conflict beginning in 1967 , 22,000 Palestinians have been killed . To put that in context , since the 1963 occupation of Papua by Indonesia , 500,000 Papuans have been killed , also since 1990 over 1 million people have been killed in Darfur by the Islamic Republic of Sudan . Darfur and Papua are real genocides committed by Islamic regimes . Does he protest these real genocides ??

    But Lin Din let out a random kernel of truth , a truth we have seen so many time here before :


    My wife sometimes says, “Ummm, you’re always angry. Why?”
     


    How many times have we seen peoples unhinged jew hatred be internalized and ruin their life . Turning their anger inside and adopting proxies ( jews ) to attack instead of their real problems. He admits he is always angry . Is this a way to go thru life ? He admits his wife dislikes it . it probably has ruined his marriage to a degree.

    “…unhinged jew hatred…”
    See the US ziocons.

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    • Replies: @anon

    “…unhinged jew hatred…”
    See the US ziocons.
     
    The guy admitted to being always angry and hating jews . Where is your quibble ??
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  109. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @annamaria
    "...unhinged jew hatred..."
    See the US ziocons.

    “…unhinged jew hatred…”
    See the US ziocons.

    The guy admitted to being always angry and hating jews . Where is your quibble ??

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  110. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @SolontoCroesus
    hundreds of thousands??

    Documents exist having Einsatzgruppen killing 33, 7__ something -- the exact number is stated, in a German doc.

    There's another instance of German soldiers killing 43,000.

    But did you ever calculate how much time and effort it takes to shoot "hundreds of thousands?"

    The "gas vans" -- the holocaust industry reported that "Jews were packed into diesel trucks, hoses run from the exhaust to the back of the truck, and the Jews inside killed."
    except that diesel fumes don't kill.
    ooops.

    Mark Weber wrote recently about uncovering documents showing that a shed -- "the white house" -- behind one of the camps was used to gas prisoners. It was a smallish house, certainly not the industrial scale killing alleged in the gas chamber mythology.

    In the first military actions against Russians, Stalin's soldiers surrendered by the hundreds of thousands, into the millions. Germans could neither keep them penned up nor feed them. Many were summarily killed. These were soldiers, mano a mano.
    In the face of these mass surrenders, Zhukov created groups that would kill any Russian soldier who did not advance. Any Russian soldier who surrendered or survived POW internment would be exiled or killed upon return to Russia, and his family would be exiled. So one way or the other, the plight of Russian soldiers was not optimistic.

    Both David Engel (prof at NYU & TelAviv U) and Timothy Snyder (prof at Yale) have published and spoken on the reality that many, many Jews were killed not by Germans but by the citizens of the places where they dwelt -- Poles killed Jews; Czechs killed Jews; Hungarians killed Jews, in many instances, far more Jews were killed by people who had been neighbors and countrymen of Jews than by warring or occupying Germans.

    It's significant that even Frenchmen turned Jews over to Germans.

    Payback's a baetch.

    I do not care about events that happened long ago. But the statement

    except that diesel fumes don’t kill.

    is plane stupid, and only extremely uneducated person could make it.
    Consider usual gas that one burns for cooking in the kitchen. When methane burns, there are no fumes, almost no smell. But C-O_2 is the product of burning, and in the absence of exchange with external atmosphere, this C-O_2 kills, since there is not enough oxygen left.
    I doubt the wisdom of the rest of statements of that commenter, but I do not care about them.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    According to NIZKOR, the statement that "diesel fumes do not kill" was reckless and not supportable: in tests, animals died in closed chambers filled with diesel fumes.

    http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-19.html
    , @anonymous
    “The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted… The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees.”
    President Ronald Reagan

    Lots of forests in Germany.
    They probably grew the forests to kill Jews.
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  111. vinteuil says:
    @Priss Factor
    What? When was I ever a conspiracy nut?

    sorry, a – I just meant that it’s unusual for you to write so succinctly & rationally.

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  112. RobinG says:
    @utu
    “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.”

    There is something to it. The Auschwitz death number was reduced from 4 millions to 1.1-1.3 millions. Plaques in 23 languages stating the 4 millions number at Auschwitz Birkenau monument were removed in 1990's.

    In 1985, I visited Auschwitz and Birkenau. We were also shown the film of the Red Army liberating the camp. If there was more comprehensive information about the Auschwitz complex, we missed it. Has anyone been there more recently?

    Does a site visit now include (as it should) maps and descriptions of all Auschwitz camps? How about the Monowitz Buna-Werke, the IG Farben factory within the Auschwitz III camp complex? No doubt that Jews died there. Also no doubt that huge numbers were simply worked to death. Besides the factory, Jews also slaved in mines.

    Everyone says Wikipedia is biased and edited by hasbarat, etc., but this article does more to cast doubt on the Hollywood holocaust legend than all the “deniers.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowitz_concentration_camp

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    and Anonymous @ 110 -- ok, what you say about burning carbon based fuels thus producing C-O_2 which, in the absence of exchange with external atmosphere, this C-O_2 kills, since there is not enough oxygen left, is surely true.

    After reading the wikipedia link RobinG provided, it occurs to me that the innumerable references to Jews create the situation in which Jews, their presence, treatment, etc. are the only things that mattered in the whole discussion. It's not much different from all the rest of us being in a gas chamber in which Jews burn with an unquenchable fire of hatred, producing a toxic atmosphere that sucks out all the oxygen.

    There is a great deal more to be learned about World War II, about the NSDAP, about who-did-what-to-whom, when and why, that the world-at-large has not been permitted to discuss or learn or debate freely, because if it does not pay obeisance to Jews-as-perpetual-victims, it is antisemitic.

    Obviously, this has to stop or we will all suffocate in imposed ignorance.

    If Jews don't like that I or any other American thinks and speaks and writes truths that implicate or distress them, that's too bad. I have as much right to think and speak and write freely as I do to breathe the oxygen that I need to survive.

    It's time for Jews to open the doors to the gas chambers they constructed and allow the oxygen of truth to douse the flames of hate.
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  113. @Anonymous
    I do not care about events that happened long ago. But the statement

    except that diesel fumes don’t kill.
     
    is plane stupid, and only extremely uneducated person could make it.
    Consider usual gas that one burns for cooking in the kitchen. When methane burns, there are no fumes, almost no smell. But C-O_2 is the product of burning, and in the absence of exchange with external atmosphere, this C-O_2 kills, since there is not enough oxygen left.
    I doubt the wisdom of the rest of statements of that commenter, but I do not care about them.

    According to NIZKOR, the statement that “diesel fumes do not kill” was reckless and not supportable: in tests, animals died in closed chambers filled with diesel fumes.

    http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-19.html

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    Indeed. You must have been typing awfully fast to not see how ridiculous that was.

    A corollary to the harmless diesel fumes.... The pseudo-scientists who allege there was no gas residue at Auschwitz... but in practically the same paragraph they confess that people crowded into a windowless bunker would expire soon enough from lack of oxygen, with or without [Zyklon B].

    So, just how did they dispose of all the exhausted slave-laborers who could no longer drag themselves to IG Farben or the mines?
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  114. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Are you not up to date with the well illustrated theory that the explosions, whether causing the steel cores to fail or just explaining the noises heard, were a result of molten aluminium and water coming together?

    No, I am not up-to-date with the totally-made-up “theory” that water and molton aluminum can cause steel cores to fail all at once on every single floor, or that water and aluminum coming together could explain the hundreds of synchronized explosion heard by hundreds of witnesses.

    If you think about it for more than 10 seconds, like I just did, you would realize that even if some “theory” existed it would still not be relevant.

    The laws of physics necessitate removal by some means the foundations of a building’s structure. For the building to fall into its own footprint that removal must be even across the building’s girth and it must be syncrhonized to take out the undergirding structure completely. Else the building does not fell down, it will fall over.

    Random water combining with random molton aluminum does not explain the symetry…..because it is random.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Why waste everyone's time replying to something you haven't bothered to inform yourself about?

    You apparently want others to look again at the evidence and overthrow the NIST report but you don't even take the elementary trouble to learn of Dr Frank Greening's explanation of his modeling which showed the time the two main towers took to collapse fitted exactly with what you would expect from the number of floors above the levels at which the planes hit because of the weight of what was above the points of impact and consequent critical weaknesses.

    BTW weren't you impressed by the Comment which gave some detail of the enormously elaborate preparation required to set up a controlled demolition? Have you any expertise at all relating to demolitions?
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  115. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @woodNfish
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Gruber_%28economist%29
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/mit-economist-jonathan-gruber-had-bigger-role-in-health-law-emails-show-1434910195

    LLSM - Lying Lame Stream Media

    I don’t need you to provide your own personal dictionary that deciphers your jargon.

    I didn’t mention in my previous reply that jargon is also used by those in a field that are speaking with their peers in the field as a type of shortcut to communicating with each other: jargon words can shorten and speed communication between people who are in the field where the jargon words would be understood.

    Your gruber made up word and your llsm made-up achronym mean nothing to me even if they mean something to you, which it is apparent are only for you to use the ad hominem logical fallacy in your reply to me.

    I am a “gruber” meaning my points are untrue. No. I could be Josef Stalin, but what I say, my reasoning, is still either logical and true or not based on the logic and background of what I say, not what my name is.

    Even if I was a proven liar of 1000 lies, you’d still need to look at my reasoning to determine if it had validity or not.

    You are one of the many who has the fatal illness called snarkism. You snark this and snark that and then thing you pwned someone.

    All you did was to reveal yourself to be full of snark and empty of intellect.

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    • Replies: @woodNfish
    Most people who pay attention to the news know what LSM and "gruber" are. A gruber is someone who is okay with being lied to. Other than explaining it to you, I really don't care what you think of it.
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  116. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Anonymous
    I do not care about events that happened long ago. But the statement

    except that diesel fumes don’t kill.
     
    is plane stupid, and only extremely uneducated person could make it.
    Consider usual gas that one burns for cooking in the kitchen. When methane burns, there are no fumes, almost no smell. But C-O_2 is the product of burning, and in the absence of exchange with external atmosphere, this C-O_2 kills, since there is not enough oxygen left.
    I doubt the wisdom of the rest of statements of that commenter, but I do not care about them.

    “The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted… The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees.”
    President Ronald Reagan

    Lots of forests in Germany.
    They probably grew the forests to kill Jews.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    They probably grew the forests to kill Jews.

    Katyn Forest Massacre explained!!!
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  117. @Wizard of Oz
    You paint an interesting picture of yourself. One who conducts conversations on serious subjects with artogant insult and who travels the world taking statistically significant samples of opinion on 9/11. Pray tell Sir: which countries, how many people, what questions, what languages do you speak? I have spent time in about 30 countries since 9/11 and in hundreds of serious conversations i have failed to discover any evidence that "all round the world they believe 9/11 was an inside job". But maybe I didn't meet enough imams and nut cases.

    What I can say, Wiz, is stop talking to your fellow spooks when you travel abroad. It should take you about 15 seconds on Google to find hundreds of polls over the last 15 years that doubt the official story.

    I have not gone back to my original reply to verify if I said the words inside job, but if I did let me correct myself (and you as well) and say that a majority of the world and the US poplulation doubt the official story.

    Furthermore, it is not arrogant to speak the truth in a direct matter. And I don’t have to travel the world doing a statistical survey. I can simply turn to google and examine the hundreds of surveys done.

    And as Linh’s interviewee relates his experience in Heathrow, more people than you would think realize the obvious: the official story does not stand up logically, scientifically, politically, and they reject it. That they don’t go around wearing sandwich boards proclaiming it, does not make it any less true.

    It is the reality, Wiz, perhaps you should come out from behind that curtain of illusion you use to hide from the obvious.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    The Wiz is intoxicated by his belief in his own self importance. It is both comical and sad to witness such delusions so proudly on display.
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  118. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    You do have a problem don't you? Have you ever persuaded anyone of anything important by calm rational argument? Have you ever achieved the status of trusted authority on anything?

    The problem I have is when the ignorant pretend that they are learned and reserved while spouting totally irrational nonsense.

    What I have done or not done, what I have acheieved or not has absolutely nothing to do with the fallacies of the official story of 9-11.

    Try to stay focused.

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  119. RobinG says:
    @Rurik

    What? Truthers know FOR SURE that explosives were planted inside the building.
     
    maybe they know that because you can hear the explosions and see the 'squibs'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A9X_8flGeM

    Some even say a plane didn’t hit the Pentagon. It was a bomb planted by the gubment.
     
    did you see a plane hit the Pentagon? The Pentagon is probably about the most video surveilled piece of real estate in the world. Why no videos of the plane at all? Ever wonder about that? Or the missing flight data recorders? Nothing to worry about?

    Paul Craig Roberts is a fine critic of US foreign policy, but his statement that no debris were found in Pennsylvania is nuts. They found the debris.
     
    from what I understand there were no bodies or luggage found. And no plane. Just what looks like a crater in an existing gorge. Like they shot a missile into an existing gorge, and that's good enough for most people.

    why were there no bodies found? Remember the scenes from the jet that Putin shot down in Ukraine? And all the bodies and luggage all over the place? Why were there no bodies at the Shanksville, PA crash site?

    Nothing to worry about?

    WTF, Rurik…

    The best you can say is, “the jet that [USA and Kiev neo-Nazis allege that] Putin shot down in Ukraine.”

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    • Replies: @Rurik
    Hi Robin,

    I was trying to have fun with that one. Sort of as just one more example of how our entire Western world's media and governments and institutions are all completely corrupted and in the service of $atan. To the point that they can actually just tell a lie like 'Putin shot down the plane', and then watch as the Australians and Dutch and everybody else just falls in line with the lie as if it had a shred of merit, when obviously it's a ludicrous slander.

    How many other lies and slanders have they sold to us wholesale?

    I read somewhere that like 70% of the American public think Saddam had something to do with 911

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

    when he had nothing whatsoever to do with it, and they've always known that. But they lie with such alacrity and singular purpose that they're easily able to steer the sheeple in any direction they want to. And they're never held accountable.

    If it came out that MH17 was shot down by an Ukrainian pilot, (which it was ; ), there'd be nothing but yawns, just like with the lies about Saddam's 'ties' to 911 or his 'WMD'. They can start wars based on lies and slaughter and maim millions and create all sorts of international catastrophes and humanitarian holocausts of misery and suffering, and when it all comes out that it was all lies and treachery, the ones responsible can get elected president.
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  120. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    Ultimately, how is Stephen Douglas's categorization of people who do- vs people who do not believe the dogmatized narrative re 9/11 differ, in essence, from anonymity's categorization of people who do- and people who do not- believe, trust, swallow whole etc. the dogmatized narrative of holocaustism?

    The only differences I see are of style and number of pixels consumed.

    You know, the man that Linh interviewed has only said one thing about the holocaust: where are the gas chambers? He is saying there is no evidence they existed, and that some historical accounts that appear to be “official” do not mention them at all.

    Is this true?

    It either is or it isn’t. In other words, if it is not true, then it should be very easy to find detailed, verified accounts of gas chambers and/or verified physical evidence that they existed.

    Then the man could be proved to be wrong.

    He appears to be a very learned, well-travelled, successful business man and academic, which would imply that he is someone who draws conclusions from evidence or the lack of evidence.

    While I don’t know that much about what he is saying about the Holocause, I do know quite a lot about the 9-11 events and his reasoning is sound in that area.

    That would infer that his reasoning is probably sound on the Holocaust topic.

    But, again, he is basing his reasoning on one thing: where are the accounts and evidence of gas chambers?

    And again, if there is evidence, then his conclusions can be proven wrong.

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  121. @Art
    I myself tend to believe the holocaust never happened simply because almost everything Jewish officialdom says is a lie.

    You mean like Israel's IDF is the most moral army in the world?

    Israeli army withdraws from Al-Fawwar, after killing one Palestinian, injuring 59, and searching dozens of homes

    The Israeli army withdrew, late on Tuesday at night, from the al-Fawwar refugee camp, south of Hebron, in the southern part of the occupied West Bank, after concluding a massive military invasion, leading to the death of one Palestinian, while at least 59 others have been injured and dozens of homes invaded and ransacked.

    https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/israeli-army-withdraws-from-al-fawwar-after-killing-one-palestinian-injuring-59-and-searching-dozens-of-homes/
     
    How about this?

    Army Razes Farmland in Hebron

    Israeli army bulldozers, on Wednesday morning, have reportedly leveled Palestinian-owned lands to the south of Hebron province.

    A local journalist in Hebron said, according to the PNN, that the Israeli army destroyed a water tank and bulldozed Palestinian lands covering an area of 15 dunams in the western town of Beit Oula, in the southern occupied West Bank.


    http://imemc.org/article/army-razes-farmland-in-hebron/
     
    The outrage just goes on and on - what devils!

    The outrage just goes on and on – what devils!

    For sure, and what rational person could even suspect stuff like this?:

    Israel’s Stolen Babies Remains the State’s Darkest Secret

    “The story of the stolen babies, however, offers the shock of the unexpected. These crimes were committed not against Palestinians but other Jews. The parents whose babies were abducted had arrived in the new state lured by promises that they would find in Israel a permanent sanctuary from persecution.

    The stolen babies were not randomly seized. A very specific group was targeted: Jews who had just immigrated from the Middle East. Most were from Yemen, with others from Iraq, Morocco and Tunisia.

    The Arabness of these Jews was viewed as a direct threat to the Jewish state’s survival, and one almost as serious as the presence of Palestinians. Israel set about “de-Arabising” these Middle Eastern Jews with the same steely determination with which it had just driven out most of the area’s Palestinians.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israels-stolen-babies-remains-the-states-darkest-secret/5540906?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

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  122. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @annamaria
    He is just a provocateur enjoying his littering the UnzReviw with little petards. It is not difficult to spot the defenders of Israel on this site. The detours and fake high-brow blowiating are their strategy.

    You are probably right since it has been widely-reported that the Isreali government has hired an army of trolls to do nothing but spout propaganda all over the internet.

    I usually ask a suspected troll if he or she is a citizen of Isreal or of the US.

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.

    However, my question still applies: what country has your allegiance? There can be only one, not both.

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    • Replies: @anon

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.
     
    BS
    Wrong Wrong Wrong
    Try google before you make an anus of yourself.
    USA allows dual citizenship from any country , not just Israel .

    From the USA State Department :
    The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth.

    A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality.

    Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

    However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. nationality. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose nationality.

    Does providing this information make me a Troll now ?????????????
    , @annamaria
    There is only one problem: Some are Fifth Column (filth column). See the leading ziocons. This is not about Jewish people. This is about supremacists of "chosen" persuasion. The true face of modern Israel is Avigdor Lieberman, a Moldovan felon and minister of defense. http://rense.com/general95/avig.html
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.722376
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  123. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @SolontoCroesus
    hundreds of thousands??

    Documents exist having Einsatzgruppen killing 33, 7__ something -- the exact number is stated, in a German doc.

    There's another instance of German soldiers killing 43,000.

    But did you ever calculate how much time and effort it takes to shoot "hundreds of thousands?"

    The "gas vans" -- the holocaust industry reported that "Jews were packed into diesel trucks, hoses run from the exhaust to the back of the truck, and the Jews inside killed."
    except that diesel fumes don't kill.
    ooops.

    Mark Weber wrote recently about uncovering documents showing that a shed -- "the white house" -- behind one of the camps was used to gas prisoners. It was a smallish house, certainly not the industrial scale killing alleged in the gas chamber mythology.

    In the first military actions against Russians, Stalin's soldiers surrendered by the hundreds of thousands, into the millions. Germans could neither keep them penned up nor feed them. Many were summarily killed. These were soldiers, mano a mano.
    In the face of these mass surrenders, Zhukov created groups that would kill any Russian soldier who did not advance. Any Russian soldier who surrendered or survived POW internment would be exiled or killed upon return to Russia, and his family would be exiled. So one way or the other, the plight of Russian soldiers was not optimistic.

    Both David Engel (prof at NYU & TelAviv U) and Timothy Snyder (prof at Yale) have published and spoken on the reality that many, many Jews were killed not by Germans but by the citizens of the places where they dwelt -- Poles killed Jews; Czechs killed Jews; Hungarians killed Jews, in many instances, far more Jews were killed by people who had been neighbors and countrymen of Jews than by warring or occupying Germans.

    It's significant that even Frenchmen turned Jews over to Germans.

    Payback's a baetch.

    diesel fumes don’t kill.

    They don’t ?? Hey why don’t you pump them into a closed space and inhale for a several minutes and report the results here !!!!!! ??????

    But before you do , would you please give me a few blunt’s worth of whatever greens you be smokin !!!!!!!

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    the closed space is the critical element, it would seem.

    As for the greens -- in my Italian tradition, we cook greens, frequently with beans, sometimes with a ham hock for flavor; we don't smoke em.
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  124. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @restless94110
    You are probably right since it has been widely-reported that the Isreali government has hired an army of trolls to do nothing but spout propaganda all over the internet.

    I usually ask a suspected troll if he or she is a citizen of Isreal or of the US.

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.

    However, my question still applies: what country has your allegiance? There can be only one, not both.

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.

    BS
    Wrong Wrong Wrong
    Try google before you make an anus of yourself.
    USA allows dual citizenship from any country , not just Israel .

    From the USA State Department :
    The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth.

    A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality.

    Intent can be shown by the person’s statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person’s allegiance.

    However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. nationality. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose nationality.

    Does providing this information make me a Troll now ?????????????

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    • Replies: @utu
    It is because of Jews the US now tolerates dual nationality:

    Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a man born in Poland, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim's right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    In principle American Jews that serve in IDF should be deprived of the citizenship. I think there is a law that could be enforced (*). But does not happen. Why? Because Jews are special.

    (*) Military service by U.S. nationals may cause problems in the conduct of our foreign relations since such service may involve U.S. nationals in hostilities against countries with which we are at peace. For this reason, U.S. nationals facing the possibility of foreign military service should do what is legally possible to avoid such service.

    Federal statutes long in force prohibit certain aspects of foreign military service originating within the United States. The current laws are set forth in Section 958-960 of Title 18 of the United States Code. In Wiborg v. U.S. , 163 U.S. 632 (1896), the Supreme Court endorsed a lower court ruling that it was not a crime under U.S. law for an individual to go abroad for the purpose of enlisting in a foreign army; however, when someone has been recruited or hired in the United States, a violation may have occurred. The prosecution of persons who have violated 18 U.S.C. 958-960 is the responsibility of the Department of Justice.

    Although a person's enlistment in the armed forces of a foreign country may not constitute a violation of U.S. law, it could subject him or her to the provisions of Section 349(a)(3) of the INA [8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(3)] which provides for loss of U.S. nationality if a U.S national voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. nationality enters or serves in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serves in the armed forces of any foreign country as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer.
    , @restless94110
    Tsk, tsk, Such rage. Such outrage culture nonsense. The only anus in this equation is you.

    Yeah, I misread a key decision that the Supreme Court made in 1967 when it decided that an Isreali dual national had not forfeited his US citizenship by voting in an Isreali election, a criterion that, up until then, had been the way things were done (an example of which was the stripping of US citizenship from a Mexican dual national).

    The real problem is members of government with dual national status. That's why Ted Cruz and Michelle Bachman renounced their dual nationality recently. But that just doesn't happen with the many many Isreali dual nationals in US government. The Hill has this to say about that:

    Yet dual citizenship in the United States poses a hitherto unappreciated issue for policy-level members of the legislative, executive and judicial branches. The divided national loyalties of dual citizens can create real or apparent conflicts of interest when such legislators, judges or senior officials make or speak out on policies that relate to their second country.

    The potential damage to our democracy is the greater when such potential conflicts of interest are concealed in undisclosed dual citizenship.

    Current entries on the Internet contain a number of undocumented assertions as to which members of Congress and senior officers are dual citizens. Without reliable data, however, Americans can only speculate on which senators and representatives may have divided national loyalties.

    The lack of transparency regarding citizenship erodes trust in government, raising credibility doubts where there should be none, and allowing some apparent conflicts of interest to continue undetected.

    When a senator, representative or senior U.S. official speaks out, submits bills or determines policy on an issue of importance to a foreign country of which that member or official (or judge) has the tie of citizenship, their constituents and the U.S. public at large should at least be able to assess whether such views or actions are influenced by the divided loyalty.

    Since they don’t involve national loyalty, religion and ethnicity seldom raise conflict issues. Moreover, they are generally matters of public record.

    By contrast, dual citizenship creates conflict of interest through divided loyalties. Thus it would seem reasonable to require that dual citizen members of Congress, the judiciary and the executive be required to renounce citizenship in another country as a condition of public service.

    Again, all dual nationals regarding Isreal who are in US government should renounce Isreali citizenship or be impeached and removed from office.

    My points still stand, Cool your fucking jets.
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  125. @RobinG
    In 1985, I visited Auschwitz and Birkenau. We were also shown the film of the Red Army liberating the camp. If there was more comprehensive information about the Auschwitz complex, we missed it. Has anyone been there more recently?

    Does a site visit now include (as it should) maps and descriptions of all Auschwitz camps? How about the Monowitz Buna-Werke, the IG Farben factory within the Auschwitz III camp complex? No doubt that Jews died there. Also no doubt that huge numbers were simply worked to death. Besides the factory, Jews also slaved in mines.

    Everyone says Wikipedia is biased and edited by hasbarat, etc., but this article does more to cast doubt on the Hollywood holocaust legend than all the "deniers."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowitz_concentration_camp

    and Anonymous @ 110 — ok, what you say about burning carbon based fuels thus producing C-O_2 which, in the absence of exchange with external atmosphere, this C-O_2 kills, since there is not enough oxygen left, is surely true.

    After reading the wikipedia link RobinG provided, it occurs to me that the innumerable references to Jews create the situation in which Jews, their presence, treatment, etc. are the only things that mattered in the whole discussion. It’s not much different from all the rest of us being in a gas chamber in which Jews burn with an unquenchable fire of hatred, producing a toxic atmosphere that sucks out all the oxygen.

    There is a great deal more to be learned about World War II, about the NSDAP, about who-did-what-to-whom, when and why, that the world-at-large has not been permitted to discuss or learn or debate freely, because if it does not pay obeisance to Jews-as-perpetual-victims, it is antisemitic.

    Obviously, this has to stop or we will all suffocate in imposed ignorance.

    If Jews don’t like that I or any other American thinks and speaks and writes truths that implicate or distress them, that’s too bad. I have as much right to think and speak and write freely as I do to breathe the oxygen that I need to survive.

    It’s time for Jews to open the doors to the gas chambers they constructed and allow the oxygen of truth to douse the flames of hate.

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  126. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    According to NIZKOR, the statement that "diesel fumes do not kill" was reckless and not supportable: in tests, animals died in closed chambers filled with diesel fumes.

    http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-19.html

    Indeed. You must have been typing awfully fast to not see how ridiculous that was.

    A corollary to the harmless diesel fumes…. The pseudo-scientists who allege there was no gas residue at Auschwitz… but in practically the same paragraph they confess that people crowded into a windowless bunker would expire soon enough from lack of oxygen, with or without [Zyklon B].

    So, just how did they dispose of all the exhausted slave-laborers who could no longer drag themselves to IG Farben or the mines?

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    You're quite right, RobinG; I'm doing way too much retorting and reacting before far too little reflection (although Anonymny has not yet explained how he/she/they got from "no one knows for sure" to "it is certainly true . . .").

    Is the phenomenon contagious?

    ---
    before committing the same offense another time, may I ask you to explain what you meant in #112 --

    "In 1985, I visited Auschwitz and Birkenau. We were also shown the film of the Red Army liberating the camp. If there was more comprehensive information about the Auschwitz complex, we missed it."
     
    Is the implication that you believe you saw, in the buildings and the film, "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" **

    In addition, I've read the wikipedia entry on Monowitz a few times. I do not understand your comment (also in #112):

    "Everyone says Wikipedia is biased and edited by hasbarat, etc., but this article does more to cast doubt on the Hollywood holocaust legend than all the “deniers.”
     
    I thought the article could have been written by a Hollywood scriptwriter, or maybe one of the fabulists who writes scenarios for the State Department. Do you really believe the anecdote about the I G Farben exec saying, Kill that Polish Jew, and he was summarily killed, dying in his comrade's arms? Does Anna Netrebko do male roles?

    i.e.

    The pseudo-scientists who allege there was no gas residue at Auschwitz… but in practically the same paragraph they confess that people crowded into a windowless bunker would expire soon enough from lack of oxygen, with or without [Zyklon B].

    So, just how did they dispose of all the exhausted slave-laborers who could no longer drag themselves to IG Farben or the mines?
     
    This goes to what was very clumsily stated above, #125 -- why are so many bits of history about WWII always all about Jews.

    That this is the case -- that explanations of WWII situations are always all about Jews is summarized in a statement by Robert Cohen:

    Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. - http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited/#sthash.vPzE66Z7.dpuf
     
    Any and every explanation of how and why the war was fought must start with the premise that "it was all about the Jews," then fit the rest of the facts of the situation into a relationship that will support that preordained conclusion. Further, even at this date, 70 years removed, Germans, Nazis, Hitler, the Third Reich may be perceived and defined only as brutish, evil, barbaric, genocidal and murderous. Those two presumptions are declared at the beginning of most histories or discussions of WWII, then fact fitted and forced to support them.

    I think it's important to clear the mind of underlying assumptions, to break the frame imposed by the dominant narrative of "Jews = innocent victims, Hitler = irredeemably evil;" and free the mind to ask different questions about the evidence on the table.


    Applying such a method to your statements quoted above reveals some curious linkages. Based on the underlying pre assumption that Nazis are evil, they must have worked "slaves" to "exhaustion," then, to dispose of their exhausted-but-live bodies they jammed them into confined spaces in which they are left to suffocate. Once the last bit of oxygen has been consumed and life squeezed from every body, they are removed and ---- disposed of.

    Ooops.
    We still haven't solved the problem of disposing of the corpses of "exhausted slave laborers who could no longer drag themselves to I G Farben." We've only consumed a whole lotta man hours in the labor of moving "exhausted bodies" from one place to another to squeeze the last bit of oxygen from them.

    That's what happens when the narrative must begin with "Jews = innocent & perpetual victims, the whole purpose of war = to exterminate Jews, and Nazis = evil."

    I ask different questions and, I confess, start with a different set of pre-assumptions. Key among them are:
    A. in the early 1920s American and British war planners determined that the most effective way to fight a war would be with air power, used to destroy the adversary's means of producing war materiel; and
    B. as Robert Kagan stated in a radio broadcast in ~2014 and Abraham Lincoln observed a century and a half earlier, the United States is a virtually unassailable fortress.
    C. The British and US Air Force were bombing the hell out of Germany at the time when I G Farben built factories to produce synthetic fuel, etc., while USA had begun as early as August 1938 to build dozens of aircraft factories in the USA, that German fighters could not touch.

    Applying my pre-assumptions to the Monowitz scenario, I would ask questions about why -- or if -- I G Farben would be so inefficient as to deliberately reduce its workforce to such a bedraggled state, given the organizational expertise made Germany an industrial powerhouse; and given that production of synthetic fuel was essential to the success of the Wehrmacht. Furthermore, the quoted anecdote is surely almost laughably false and melodramatic. How much more of the reporting on conditions at the I G Farben slave labor camp were similarly rendered through the same hyperbole machine?

    ** PS I recognize that having been to Iran, I have a far different attitude and way of thinking about Iran, US conflicts with Iran, etc. Having made a person-to-person connection has humanized what US government considers an enemy. Is it fair to speculate that your on-site experience at Auschwitz evoked a similar response, that you view the situation through a more humanistically informed perspective?
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  127. @anon

    diesel fumes don’t kill.
     
    They don't ?? Hey why don't you pump them into a closed space and inhale for a several minutes and report the results here !!!!!! ??????

    But before you do , would you please give me a few blunt's worth of whatever greens you be smokin !!!!!!!

    the closed space is the critical element, it would seem.

    As for the greens — in my Italian tradition, we cook greens, frequently with beans, sometimes with a ham hock for flavor; we don’t smoke em.

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  128. Paul C. says:
    @Priss Factor
    I remember seeing a TV interview with some of the family members of the victims of United 93.

    You mean they were actors?

    Why don't you give it up?

    You’ve answered my question. You have no proof, because none exists. How is it possible that a plane crashes in Shanksville and then disappears? How is it possible a plane hits the Pentagon but there’s no evidence of it?

    The interview is a distraction. Would you know the difference between a real interview versus a staged one? Likely not. You need to look at the evidence. 3 towers fell at nearly free fall speed. The structure should have provided resistance in each case. Controlled demolitions, without a doubt.

    I suspect you know this though.

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  129. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Rurik

    But killing Americans would risk too much
     
    they did it with the cameras rolling:

    http://victimasectas.com/Terrorismo/USA/WacoEj.jpg

    all they had to do is call the victims "whackos" and say the children were molested, (and so they apparently deserved to die)

    - it has turned out that the FBI lied about using flammable gas canisters during the Waco siege and also people were shot with automatic weapons at the only exit as the flames consumed the compound, so we can dispense with the silly notion that the US gov wouldn't dare kill an American. They do so all the time. They assassinated that American Muslim and his son by drone, and they also assassinated Michael Hastings and didn't even try to hide it. They have passed laws that give them the legal authorization to black-bag and rendition Americans to off-shore torture sites based on secret evidence from anonymous government agents claiming national security as their pretext without legal recourse or even charges. What the **** more proof do you need that they are capable of anything?

    Of 9/11, I think there were some in US and Israel government who knew something was up but played dumb because something like 9/11 would unleash a jackpot of opportunities for US to do as it pleases in the Middle East
     
    you're right about the bold text part, that's for sure

    but building seven was a controlled demolition, and Osama and his nineteen henchmen didn't rig it, nor did Osama tell the BBC and Fox News that it was going to come down, before it did. That shit was done at the highest levels of our gov/media.

    I’m willing to believe that some in the US government may have known an attack on Americans was imminent but didn’t take decisive action because the ensuing crisis would give US the chance to take decisive action.
     
    they did it

    they didn't just sit by and let it happen

    they (Israel, Cheney, Zelikow, Rabbi Zakheim and assorted neocons did it in order to get their wars. And Lucky Larry to get his shekels)

    the evidence that they did it is irrefutable

    >><<

    and why were there no bodies or luggage or other debris at Shanksville?

    could it be that maybe they lied about what happened to flight 93?

    could it be that they lied about the Pentagon, and that's why there are no videos of any plane?

    could it be that they lied about WMD?

    could it be that they lied about Syrian gas attacks?

    could it be that they lied about Putin shooting down the plane?

    like their lies and murderous treachery and false flag attack on the USS Liberty?

    could it be that they're a den of murderous psychopaths who lie with every feculent breath?

    hmm

    “all they had to do is call the victims ‘whackos’ and say the children were molested, (and so they apparently deserved to die)”

    I don’t know what happened exactly at Waco. But it is a fact that there was a wacky cult led by some nut. He also violated a bunch of gun laws and stuff. It was a crazy religious cult, no doubt about it. Did the government handle the problem responsibly? I don’t think so, and I think most people don’t think so. But it was a botched attempt at law enforcement.

    It was not a false flag operation. The government didn’t create this cult, and the people in the compound were not ‘actors’ or agents pretending to make trouble. They were real weirdos.

    Your kind of conspiracy theorizing is on a different level. You’re not talking of government incompetence or abuse of power in enforcement. You are saying the US government would create the very situation in which innocent Americans would get killed.
    It’d be like saying David Koresh was just a government agent. That no one really died in the standoff between US government and the Waco cultists. That it was all make-believe just to expand government power. Or, it’s like saying the US government created the cult in order to bring about the violence that would expand government power.

    I mean if we are at it, why not say Timothy McVeigh was either a patsy or a government agent. Maybe he didn’t blow up the building and was only brainwashed into thinking he did. Or maybe he wasn’t executed. Maybe his death was faked, and he’s still alive somewhere.

    Now, there are plenty of people in US government who would stop at nothing to get what they want. A lot of people who enter politics and government are sociopaths and psychopaths. It’s like the fruitkin agent in NO WAY OUT or the slimeball in CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. There are lots of good people in government, but some people just love power and wouldn’t hesitate to do all sorts of slimeball stuff to get their way. Nixon had some real dirtbags working for him. So yes, morally a lot of people in government are capable of doing just about ANYTHING to get what they want.

    [MORE]

    If these people in US government had the power of Old USSR or Red China, they would be doing horrible things. Indeed, most people in US government are no better(or worse) than most people in communist or fascist regimes. It’s just that there are more checks and balances against total abuse of power in the US. Stalin and Mao could get away with killing of millions. In the US, even killing a few lives can be risky as hell for US government. Now, most Americans don’t care if US actions lead to deaths of foreigners, even lots of them. But when it comes to US citizens, even the linkage of ONE death by government abuse of power could have huge repercussions. So, with such fear of consequences, people in US government have to think twice, thrice, frice, fiftice, etc. before deciding to pull some stunt where Americans will die.

    Now, there may be rogue elements in US government who might be plotting some dirty deed, but the idea of US president or top chiefs of any agency signing onto a plot that targets innocent US citizens? I don’t see it. Not because such people aren’t morally capable of it — some of them are sociopath scum — but because even psychos must know that the risks are too high.

    US government did infiltrate radical groups and encouraged their self-destructive tendencies. In Italy, there have been rumors and accusations that some of the Red terror in the 70s were actually carried out be far-right groups or rogue elements in the government. It comes more naturally to greasers maybe. They got that mafia culture thing, even in government.

    9/11 attack was huge. It was too big for rogue elements to pull it off. So, if it was a conspiracy done by the US government, it means the top people in various departments had to have been involved. It is simply incredible that all those people would sign onto a plot where 1000s of Americans would die in an attack on NY and Pentagon. There’s no way US plotted this.
    At most, some rogue elements in US and Israel knew something was up but remained silent because the ensuing crisis would give US a window of opportunity to do whatever it wanted to in the Middle East for several yrs. The fact that US cannot smoke out those elements is the real shame of the nation. We know why. If it connects to Israel, there will be hell to pay. And the Jewish elites who run the US won’t allow it. Just like they won’t allow the full narrative of what really happened to USS Liberty.

    “but building seven was a controlled demolition”

    No, it wasn’t. Read David Cole on the matter. He is totally convincing.

    http://takimag.com/article/enough_with_the_truthers_already_david_cole/print#axzz4HeL1ln8I

    One thing is certain. A lot of people in US government are sociopaths or sycophants(maybe they should be called psychophants). Sociopaths have no qualms about anything. And sycophants are so into their career and promotion that they just go along with the powers that be.

    From the Ukraine Crisis and Libya/Syria, I learned how vile, vicious, dirty, and lowdown people in US government can be. And the Western Media. So, if these people had the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin had, they would stop at nothing to push their ruthless demented agenda. And US agents have a freer reign to pull dirty shit OUTSIDE the US with non-US citizens.
    But when it comes to Americans, it is too risky for US government to have them killed(esp 1000s of them) just to push some agenda.

    However, in the War on Terror, we’ve seen how the line between US citizen and foreigner is getting blurred.
    There was a time when an American Citizen mostly referred to white Americans(and also to black Americans)with roots in American history. So, there was a clear distinction between American and non-American.

    But with massive immigration and rising Diversity, the meaning of ‘American’, ‘citizen’ , and ‘foreigner’ isn’t as clear anymore. (Even the meaning of ‘legal’ and ‘illegal’ isn’t clear anymore. PC says referring to any person as ‘illegal’ is dehumanizing’. We live in a nation that has trouble telling the difference between ‘man’ and ‘woman’, between true marriage and ‘gay marriage’.)
    When ‘American’ meant white American with considerable roots in American land and history, the idea of US government killing US citizens would have sounded appalling.
    And when it came to US blacks, the mantra is their rights must be respected with Miranda rights. Richard Daley got hell for saying ‘shoot to kill, shoot to maim’. So, even when blacks burn, loot, and kill, their rights must be respected and there must be due process. But in overseas ventures, if people get out of line, US military can just mow down entire peoples like in Serbia and Somalia. (And Americans sure don’t care about all those dead Palestinians killed by Zionists and Yemenis killed by Saudis as allies of US.) But with so many US citizens now being non-white newcomers with shallow roots(and who move back and forth between the West and non-West), Americans are more willing to accept the ‘right’ of US government to kill US citizens if they are engaged in terrorism or suspected of such. These ‘US citizens’ are seen as foreign terrorists who just happened to have acquired US citizenship without genuine love of country.

    The dangerous implication of this logic is as follows: Killing foreign terrorists is a must. No need for due process and rule of law. Just kill the scumbag. If a Muslim US citizen is abroad and aiding terrorists, he too is a terrorist and should be killed on the spot. It violates due process, but since terrorists deserved to die, priority deems that he must killed too and due process must take the backseat. Such logic establishes that US citizen can be killed without due process for terror. But it sets the template that US government doesn’t need due process to kill an American citizen. And if terror is used as the justification today, what will be invoked to kill US citizens in the future? And if Muslim US citizens are killed today, might it lead to the killing of white US citizens as well? Maybe for ‘hate crimes’? With US government turning global than national, white American patriots in the future might be seen the way foreign terrorists are seen today. Today, terrorists abroad must killed for resisting US hegemony. Tomorrow, patriotic white ‘haters’ may have to be killed by US government for resisting Inclusive Globalist Hegemony.

    This is the problem of mass immigration and diversity. Notice how terrorist attack happens, and then the attacker is mentioned as a ‘Norwegian’ or ‘Frenchman’ or ‘German’ or ‘Briton’ when he is clearly an Arab or Muslim or some such. When Norwegians were all white, the idea of killing a Norwegian without due process would have been horrific. But with ‘Norwegians’ committing acts of terror and EU turning into a militarized zone, the authorities are more prone to gun down suspects terrorists on the spot without due process… even if they person is legally a ‘European’. But if ‘Europeans’ could be killed without due process today for terror, might not real Europeans be killed without due process over some other excuse in the future?

    Even up to the early 90s, the term ‘American’ immediately invoked the image of White American with some roots in American history. But with massive immigration and promotion of Diversity, it is no longer so. Say ‘American’ today, and people see Diversity. So, American can mean some Muslim who’s been in the US for just several yrs and got citizenship. He or she is deemed just as ‘American’ as Americans with ancestry going back to Mayflower. And with easy and cheap air travel, this ‘American’ might travel back and forth often between US and his native country. And with cellphone and internet, he could be communicating with people back home and even be plotting with them to pull some bad shit in the US. It could be terror or some fraud scheme like those pulled by Nigerians or Pakistanis. And all those Chinese with their birth tourism. They come here pregnant to have ‘American’ kids who are entitled to all the goodies.

    If the meaning of ‘American’ becomes so vague, and there is no longer any clear distinction between us and them, between whites and non-whites, then things may indeed get scarier for Americans.

    Traditionally, Americans haven’t cared what the US government does overseas as long as it respects the Rights of US citizens. So, if US military mowed down 1000s of Somalis like in BLACKHAWK DOWN, no big deal. But if one Negro is killed under funny circumstances in the US, it is a very big deal.

    But as ‘us and them’ becomes blurred, ‘they’ are ‘us’ and ‘we’ are ‘they’. And if US government can attack and kill ‘them’ by the bushel, and if ‘they’ and ‘us’ can no longer be told apart, it means US government may kill ‘us’ as ‘them’.

    Indeed, this is related to the White Death phenom. US government no longer sees white American working class as True Americans with roots in the US. People whose ancestors built this nation. Instead, they are seen much like white people once used to regard American Indians. People who need to be pushed aside to make for the New Americans. So, ‘they’ become the new ‘us’. This makes US more ‘inclusive’, but Americans nevertheless still don’t care when US is killing bushels of foreigners abroad.
    I mean there never was a Iraqi Lives Matter when all those bombs were being dropped on Iraq. There never was a Libyan Lives Matter when US was turning Libyan cities to rubble. So, this invite/invade stuff is leading to some schizo-americanism.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    No, the government didn't create the Branch Davidian Cult but US government ATF agents did use tactics best described as entrapment to drum up the charges of violations of gun laws. The claims of child molestation were clearly bogus to anyone who has watched the still available videos of the children's interactions with David Koresh and knows the typical behavioural patterns of molested children.

    BTW, wacky religious cults are guaranteed religious freedom under the US Constitution 1st Amendment, how could you not know this?

    I gave up reading any more of the long rambling drivel that you wrote. Stick to your Hollywood movies, they are mostly made to appeal the the intellects of 15 year olds so I can see why you are so enamoured.

    I am so disappointed in you Priss/ Anonymny/DFS, I once was of the opinion that you were an original thinker but the more of your comments that I read the more I'm inclined to agree with your own earlier self assessment that you are just plain nutty.

    I think it was Ronald Thomas West who first claimed as much in an answer to me after I'd defended something you'd written. You're now in close competition for prize idiot with that idiot Wiz.
    , @Rurik

    I don’t know what happened exactly at Waco. But it is a fact that there was a wacky cult led by some nut. He also violated a bunch of gun laws and stuff. It was a crazy religious cult, no doubt about it.
     
    that's pretty much all they had to say after they assaulted, terrorized and then shot anyone trying to leave and burned those people (including children) alive

    "what's that? Oh, they were whacky cult people?! well then f 'em.

    Did the government handle the problem responsibly? I don’t think so, and I think most people don’t think so. But it was a botched attempt at law enforcement.
     
    it wasn't a botched attempt at law enforcement, it was an horrific display of power-crazed thuggism gone insane with murderous blood lust.

    They could have arrested David Koresh anytime they wanted to. He was often out on runs or even and the shooting range with LEOs all the time. They wanted to be cowboys on camera showing us all how tough they were, and making a production out of their heroics as they assaulted the church people. But when the terrorized people shot back, and some of the "heroes" got a taste of what they were dishing out, they went insane. Literally, and became the Fiend incarnate.

    if you watch one of the more recent videos, you can listen to the conversations between the governments negotiator and the guy on the inside trying to negotiate their surrender, and the government guy says 'their patience has run out, no one is coming out of there'.

    Koresh humiliated the Fiend, and the Fiend was hell bent on revenge. That's a long way from a "botched attempt at law enforcement".

    It was not a false flag operation. The government didn’t create this cult, and the people in the compound were not ‘actors’ or agents pretending to make trouble. They were real weirdos.
     
    I never said the government created them. All I said was that holocaust (literally) was just one more act of the US fecal government murdering US citizens. And yes, to try to justify it, they simply called them weirdo whackos. I suppose for a lot of people, that makes it all OK.

    One wonders, Priss.. what would they call you?

    You are saying the US government would create the very situation in which innocent Americans would get killed.
     
    that's right

    at Waco and on 911 that is exactly what they did.

    In the case of Waco, it was a tragic attempt at macho, cowboy "heroics" that went terribly wrong and they made those people pay for their incompetence and stupidity and barbarism by burning them alive.

    In the case of 911, they deliberately wanted maximum casualties to create a sense of outrage in the American public, to get us willing to destroy entire countries inconvenient to Israel.

    Indeed, most people in US government are no better(or worse) than most people in communist or fascist regimes.
     
    well on this we sure agree!

    But when it comes to US citizens, even the linkage of ONE death by government abuse of power could have huge repercussions
     
    I remind you of Waco

    or Michael Hastings, who it appears to me was obviously assassinated by our government. And he's a white guy. Very white.

    9/11 attack was huge. It was too big for rogue elements to pull it off.
     
    but not too big for a guy in a cave on dialysis with nineteen coke-snorting morons who couldn't fly a Cessna, but who possessed magical passports that floated through the fireballs and carnage and gently dropped down to the NY street for the FBI to find who the culprits really were.

    It was huge, and so complicated that NORAD and SACs were paralyzed, standing there doe-eyed, and no jets were scrambled, and the "orders still stand", and the anomalies and flat out lies and distortions and avalanche of impossibilities and destruction of forensic evidence and all the other proof that this was done at the highest levels of our gov/media, is all just waved away as too complicated for the Mossad and CIA and FBI and others to pull off. But the evil genius in the cave with his AK and box cutters, now it was nothing for him.

    It is simply incredible that all those people would sign onto a plot where 1000s of Americans would die in an attack on NY and Pentagon. There’s no way US plotted this.
     
    how many Americas do you suspect will end up dead as a result of the fecal government's agenda of massive immigration of third world illiterates and stone age Muslims into the US? Eh?

    the numbers are already in the thousands. This is a campaign to destroy American's way of life, and impose a new Orwellian agenda of Total government control over every facet of our lives. And it has and will get thousands of Americans killed and harmed and raped and slaughtered. And it's being perpetrated with the full complicity of the fecal government and media and the highest levels of not just the US, but the entire western world.

    You of all people ought to be able to see the obvious in this. To pretend that our government doesn't hate us and engage in conspiracies to see us dead and disenfranchised and used as cannon fodder for Israel, (which is what both world wars were all about) is really quite naïve from you Priss. IMHO

    “but building seven was a controlled demolition”

    No, it wasn’t.
     
    I don't need any 'expert' to tell me what my eyes are perfectly able to see, thankyouverymuch.

    So, if these people had the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin had, they would stop at nothing to push their ruthless demented agenda
     
    Americans are still armed to the teeth. Wait for the day that they get the guns. Then watch what they do.

    It violates due process, but since terrorists deserved to die, priority deems that he must killed too and due process must take the backseat.
     
    and you're naïve enough to think this will only be done to Muslim Americans? Who do you think they hate more, Muslims or white American, freedom-loving, patriotic men with guns?
    They already refer to veterans and people who quote the US Constitution as suspect terrorists, how far a leap is it to call you one?

    it means US government may kill ‘us’ as ‘them’.

     

    you're catching on Priss!
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  130. annamaria says:
    @restless94110
    You are probably right since it has been widely-reported that the Isreali government has hired an army of trolls to do nothing but spout propaganda all over the internet.

    I usually ask a suspected troll if he or she is a citizen of Isreal or of the US.

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.

    However, my question still applies: what country has your allegiance? There can be only one, not both.

    There is only one problem: Some are Fifth Column (filth column). See the leading ziocons. This is not about Jewish people. This is about supremacists of “chosen” persuasion. The true face of modern Israel is Avigdor Lieberman, a Moldovan felon and minister of defense. http://rense.com/general95/avig.html

    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.722376

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    Agreed and that was my point: No dual-national should be allowed to serve in any position anywhere in the US governement ever. If you want to hang out and sell car insurance in Rochester, and go back to the old country and vote for Prime Minister, feel free to.

    If you want to run for dog catcher in the United States, renounce your dual citizenship.
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  131. utu says:
    @anon

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.
     
    BS
    Wrong Wrong Wrong
    Try google before you make an anus of yourself.
    USA allows dual citizenship from any country , not just Israel .

    From the USA State Department :
    The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth.

    A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality.

    Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

    However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. nationality. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose nationality.

    Does providing this information make me a Troll now ?????????????

    It is because of Jews the US now tolerates dual nationality:

    Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967), is a major United States Supreme Court case in which the Court ruled that citizens of the United States may not be deprived of their citizenship involuntarily.[1][2] The U.S. government had attempted to revoke the citizenship of Beys Afroyim, a man born in Poland, because he had cast a vote in an Israeli election after becoming a naturalized U.S. citizen. The Supreme Court decided that Afroyim’s right to retain his citizenship was guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution. In so doing, the Court overruled one of its own precedents, Perez v. Brownell (1958), in which it had upheld loss of citizenship under similar circumstances less than a decade earlier.

    The Afroyim decision opened the way for a wider acceptance of dual (or multiple) citizenship in United States law.[3] The Bancroft Treaties—a series of agreements between the United States and other nations which had sought to limit dual citizenship following naturalization—were eventually abandoned after the Carter administration concluded that Afroyim and other Supreme Court decisions had rendered them unenforceable.

    In principle American Jews that serve in IDF should be deprived of the citizenship. I think there is a law that could be enforced (*). But does not happen. Why? Because Jews are special.

    (*) Military service by U.S. nationals may cause problems in the conduct of our foreign relations since such service may involve U.S. nationals in hostilities against countries with which we are at peace. For this reason, U.S. nationals facing the possibility of foreign military service should do what is legally possible to avoid such service.

    Federal statutes long in force prohibit certain aspects of foreign military service originating within the United States. The current laws are set forth in Section 958-960 of Title 18 of the United States Code. In Wiborg v. U.S. , 163 U.S. 632 (1896), the Supreme Court endorsed a lower court ruling that it was not a crime under U.S. law for an individual to go abroad for the purpose of enlisting in a foreign army; however, when someone has been recruited or hired in the United States, a violation may have occurred. The prosecution of persons who have violated 18 U.S.C. 958-960 is the responsibility of the Department of Justice.

    Although a person’s enlistment in the armed forces of a foreign country may not constitute a violation of U.S. law, it could subject him or her to the provisions of Section 349(a)(3) of the INA [8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(3)] which provides for loss of U.S. nationality if a U.S national voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. nationality enters or serves in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the United States or serves in the armed forces of any foreign country as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer.

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  132. @restless94110
    No, I am not up-to-date with the totally-made-up "theory" that water and molton aluminum can cause steel cores to fail all at once on every single floor, or that water and aluminum coming together could explain the hundreds of synchronized explosion heard by hundreds of witnesses.

    If you think about it for more than 10 seconds, like I just did, you would realize that even if some "theory" existed it would still not be relevant.

    The laws of physics necessitate removal by some means the foundations of a building's structure. For the building to fall into its own footprint that removal must be even across the building's girth and it must be syncrhonized to take out the undergirding structure completely. Else the building does not fell down, it will fall over.

    Random water combining with random molton aluminum does not explain the symetry.....because it is random.

    Why waste everyone’s time replying to something you haven’t bothered to inform yourself about?

    You apparently want others to look again at the evidence and overthrow the NIST report but you don’t even take the elementary trouble to learn of Dr Frank Greening’s explanation of his modeling which showed the time the two main towers took to collapse fitted exactly with what you would expect from the number of floors above the levels at which the planes hit because of the weight of what was above the points of impact and consequent critical weaknesses.

    BTW weren’t you impressed by the Comment which gave some detail of the enormously elaborate preparation required to set up a controlled demolition? Have you any expertise at all relating to demolitions?

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    Why waste everyone's time replying to something you haven't informed yourself about?

    1,000s of archtects, engineers, physicists and demo experts have said in the most certain terms that the smoking gun of the WTC is the symetry of the collapses: This cannot happen from random fires.

    Have you looked at Architects & Engineers for 9-11 Truth?

    If not, why not. Have you viewed the hours of testimony and explanation on the video Explosive Evidence (or something close to that: do a search on youtube, you'll find it).

    No theory can be valid that does not account for the symetrical removal of underlying mass in the structures. No one has come up with an explanation, least of all NIST, which admitted finally that doesn't have any idea how WTC7 fell.

    Furthermore, any theory of how things were rigged has no relevance to the collapse. Just because some guy doesn't think it would have been possible to rig charges all over the place has no relevance to the inescapable fact that the structures fell symetrically.

    How it was done would be the subject of an investigation, after it has been acknowledged what every architect and engineer (and physicists) knows: skyscrapers of any kind cannot and do not fall symetrically after less than 90 minutes from light damage to a few floors high up in their structure, or, in one case, no damage at all (WTC7).

    I don't have to be a demolitions expert to use my reason on my knowledge of physics and engineering. I can just turn to the many demo experts who have concluded the same thing.

    Your reasoning is fallacious, filled with logical fallacies. You believe theories that do not correcpond to the laws of gravity, Newtonian physics.

    You should ask yourself why you fight so hard to resist science and engineering precepts that allow humankind to build high rises all over the world, and why 9-11 didn't stop new skyscrapers from being designed and built, because if architects and engineers believed the half-baked cockamamie "theories" of NiST and whatever other quack you want to quote, then all building would have immediately stopped and there would have been worldwide conferences of all relevant disciplines to determine what if any design changes would have to be implemented in order to account for the new information that random fired a 100 stories could cause high rised to fall symetrically into their own footprint in less than 90 minutes.

    No such conferences ever occurred. No buildings were stopped in the middle of their construction. 100s of new skyscrapers were designed and build. The people that build these things, that design them, and that test them, have voted their opinion of NIST nonsense.

    It's not possible what you suggest. Stop suggesting it. Educate yourself.
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  133. @Stephen Douglas
    What I can say, Wiz, is stop talking to your fellow spooks when you travel abroad. It should take you about 15 seconds on Google to find hundreds of polls over the last 15 years that doubt the official story.

    I have not gone back to my original reply to verify if I said the words inside job, but if I did let me correct myself (and you as well) and say that a majority of the world and the US poplulation doubt the official story.

    Furthermore, it is not arrogant to speak the truth in a direct matter. And I don't have to travel the world doing a statistical survey. I can simply turn to google and examine the hundreds of surveys done.

    And as Linh's interviewee relates his experience in Heathrow, more people than you would think realize the obvious: the official story does not stand up logically, scientifically, politically, and they reject it. That they don't go around wearing sandwich boards proclaiming it, does not make it any less true.

    It is the reality, Wiz, perhaps you should come out from behind that curtain of illusion you use to hide from the obvious.

    The Wiz is intoxicated by his belief in his own self importance. It is both comical and sad to witness such delusions so proudly on display.

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    Yeah,

    There is a rabid army of non-believers in science and in logic that have infested US thought on this matter. I have seen plenty of it.

    A lot of them skip to the who or the how and proclaim that unless the who and the how is explained to them then the what (that buildings cannot fall like that from random fires) is not true.

    But that's not logical. That's not how you do things.

    For example: a man is discovered murdered in his own apartment and the doors and windows are locked. The murder weapon, a gun, is not found. The detectives don't go---well, it is impossible for someone to have gotten into the apartment, so he could not have been murdered. They may never figure out how the guy was murdered, but they know he was murdered.

    It's really as simple as that. Investigations are not done backwards like they were by NIST. You start at the beginning, then you go to the how, then you go to the why, not the other way around.
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  134. 5371 says:
    @anon
    dey gots dis new google machine and dontcha know it can translate dozens of languages !!!!!

    Someone has put Khomeini’s original text on the internet? You can provide a link to it in that case.

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  135. 5371 says:
    @anon
    The article is sad on so many levels . The guy supposedly interviewed is a sad case . He believes every conspiracy theory he has ever encountered . he claims :


    I’m opposed to people who support Israel, because I’m against genocide.”
     

    Thats a curious thing to say . In 1967 the Palestinian Population in Israel was 900,000, now in 2016 it is 5.2 million. More than 500% increase. Some genocide. In the entirety of the Israel Palestinian conflict beginning in 1967 , 22,000 Palestinians have been killed . To put that in context , since the 1963 occupation of Papua by Indonesia , 500,000 Papuans have been killed , also since 1990 over 1 million people have been killed in Darfur by the Islamic Republic of Sudan . Darfur and Papua are real genocides committed by Islamic regimes . Does he protest these real genocides ??

    But Lin Din let out a random kernel of truth , a truth we have seen so many time here before :


    My wife sometimes says, “Ummm, you’re always angry. Why?”
     


    How many times have we seen peoples unhinged jew hatred be internalized and ruin their life . Turning their anger inside and adopting proxies ( jews ) to attack instead of their real problems. He admits he is always angry . Is this a way to go thru life ? He admits his wife dislikes it . it probably has ruined his marriage to a degree.

    [In 1967 the Palestinian Population in Israel was 900,000, now in 2016 it is 5.2 million. More than 500% increase. Some genocide.]

    In 1800 there were about 1 million Jews in the world, now there are more than 15 million. More than 1400% increase. Some holocaust.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    As a percentage of the original populations, the annual (simple average) growth rates were:

    (1) Jewish since 1800 : {14m/(216*1,000000)} ~ 6.48%
    (2) Palestinian since 1967: {4.3m/(49*900,000)} ~ 9.75%

    That is more than 3.25% higher for the palestinians. So if you are somehow peddling the angle for a palestinian 'genocide' and deny the Holocaust, the numbers do not favor your product.

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  136. 5371 says:
    @anon
    http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/darfur-genocide

    The “Darfur Genocide” refers to the current mass slaughter and rape of Darfuri men, women and children in Western Sudan. The killings began in 2003 and continue still today, as the first genocide in the 21st century. As of today, over 480,000 people have been killed, and over 2.8 million people are displaced.
     
    In contrast to the 22,000 Palestinains have been killed since 1967.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/11/un-displaced-violence-darfur-

    20131114132610566629.html
    Al Jazeera reports that 460,000 have been displaced in Darfur in 2013 alone !!!!!!
     
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/WOMEN-TELL-OF-BRUTAL-RAPES-IN-SECRET-CAMP-2755619.php

    http://rense.com/general54/rapes.htm


    While African women in Darfur were being raped by the Janjaweed militiamen, Arab women stood nearby and sang for joy, according to an Amnesty International report published yesterday. The songs of the Hakama, or the "Janjaweed women" as the refugees call them, encouraged the atrocities committed by the militiamen.
     

    According to an African chief quoted in the report, the singers said: "The blood of the blacks runs like water, we take their goods and we chase them from our area and our cattle will be in their land. The power of [Sudanese president Omer Hassan] al-Bashir belongs to the Arabs and we will kill you until the end, you blacks, we have killed your God."
     
    So here you have a real genocide to get worked up about . This genocide has everything . Racism -Arab supremacists massacring the native black population . Ethnic cleansing and arabizing the population by rape in the form of the governnment militia known as the janjaweed. Muslim on religious minority killings . The president Omar Bashir wanted on genocide charges by the International criminal court .estimates of 480,000 killed to 2 million killed . Occupation . Why concentrate on fake genocides ??

    [While African women in Darfur were being raped by the Janjaweed militiamen, Arab women stood nearby and sang for joy, according to an Amnesty International report published yesterday.]

    These are Africans, that’s their excuse for claiming something so comical. What’s your excuse for believing it?

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    • Replies: @anon
    your racism towards blacks is at an insane level. you have made jokes about the ongoing genocide in darfur before and now you have gone further denying it along with making jokes about it. they are not reliable witnesses because they are black ?

    your racism and hate towards blacks and jews end up turning you into the same type of person as the obviously dejected and defeated face in the photo at the begining of the article. thats your futute . enjoi !
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  137. woodNfish says:
    @restless94110
    I don't need you to provide your own personal dictionary that deciphers your jargon.

    I didn't mention in my previous reply that jargon is also used by those in a field that are speaking with their peers in the field as a type of shortcut to communicating with each other: jargon words can shorten and speed communication between people who are in the field where the jargon words would be understood.

    Your gruber made up word and your llsm made-up achronym mean nothing to me even if they mean something to you, which it is apparent are only for you to use the ad hominem logical fallacy in your reply to me.

    I am a "gruber" meaning my points are untrue. No. I could be Josef Stalin, but what I say, my reasoning, is still either logical and true or not based on the logic and background of what I say, not what my name is.

    Even if I was a proven liar of 1000 lies, you'd still need to look at my reasoning to determine if it had validity or not.

    You are one of the many who has the fatal illness called snarkism. You snark this and snark that and then thing you pwned someone.

    All you did was to reveal yourself to be full of snark and empty of intellect.

    Most people who pay attention to the news know what LSM and “gruber” are. A gruber is someone who is okay with being lied to. Other than explaining it to you, I really don’t care what you think of it.

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    • Replies: @restless94110
    I pay attention to the news, I'm sure more than you ever dreamed of paying attention, woodNhead.

    Jargon is for lame-ass losers who can't just speak plainly. A gruber is some workd you made up based on some story about some guy. I don't give a shit where you decided to make up the word or who the guy even is. It doesn't matter at all. It's a jargon word. Jargon is for losers because it does not communicate anything other than you are part of an "in" crowd and everyone else is..... a gruber.

    You can't explain anyting to me, when you use jargon words. Your use of jargon words explains everything to me. You are unable to express yourself, so you fall back onto jargon words.
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  138. iffen says:
    @German_reader
    "There is no mention of any gas chamber. At the bottom of the first page, there is something about using “gas trucks” and firearms to kill Jews.

    “gas trucks”

    Henry said, “What are they doing? I think they’re starting to back away from the myth of the gas chambers.”"

    Umm, it's well known that the German Einsatzgruppen carried out mass shootings of hundreds of thousands of Jews in 1941 (ever heard of Babi Yar?); same applies to the use of gas vans...this is known to anybody with even a basic knowledge of the Holocaust, bizarre to see this cited as "evidence" for Holocaust denial.
    Seriously, I'm pretty far right myself...but this stuff is simply insane.

    …but this stuff is simply insane

    SC and ilk worship your grandparents; it’s a religion.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    SC and ilk worship your grandparents; it’s a religion.
     
    Deuteronomy 5:16
    'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may go well with you on the land which the LORD your God gives you.
    , @German_reader
    My grandparents (only German on my maternal side btw) weren't Holocaust deniers though...my grandfather was in Ukraine and Belarus during the war and heard at least rumours about the extermination camps during the war, and never had any doubts that it all was true. There's a reason why Holocaust denial never was more than a fringe element in post-war Germany...it's just obviously nonsense.
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  139. iffen says:
    @anonymous
    “The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted… The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees.”
    President Ronald Reagan

    Lots of forests in Germany.
    They probably grew the forests to kill Jews.

    They probably grew the forests to kill Jews.

    Katyn Forest Massacre explained!!!

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    not that facts or reality ever got in the way of your Jews-as-victim obsession, iffen, but to the best of my knowledge, the victims at Katyn were Polish, and the killers were Russian, not German. And Katyn is not in Germany but in Poland. It was, however, a forest.

    other than that, spot on.

    There are forests in central Virginia. No doubt that signifies that Virginia is for Antisemites.
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  140. @Priss Factor
    "all they had to do is call the victims 'whackos' and say the children were molested, (and so they apparently deserved to die)"

    I don't know what happened exactly at Waco. But it is a fact that there was a wacky cult led by some nut. He also violated a bunch of gun laws and stuff. It was a crazy religious cult, no doubt about it. Did the government handle the problem responsibly? I don't think so, and I think most people don't think so. But it was a botched attempt at law enforcement.

    It was not a false flag operation. The government didn't create this cult, and the people in the compound were not 'actors' or agents pretending to make trouble. They were real weirdos.

    Your kind of conspiracy theorizing is on a different level. You're not talking of government incompetence or abuse of power in enforcement. You are saying the US government would create the very situation in which innocent Americans would get killed.
    It'd be like saying David Koresh was just a government agent. That no one really died in the standoff between US government and the Waco cultists. That it was all make-believe just to expand government power. Or, it's like saying the US government created the cult in order to bring about the violence that would expand government power.

    I mean if we are at it, why not say Timothy McVeigh was either a patsy or a government agent. Maybe he didn't blow up the building and was only brainwashed into thinking he did. Or maybe he wasn't executed. Maybe his death was faked, and he's still alive somewhere.

    Now, there are plenty of people in US government who would stop at nothing to get what they want. A lot of people who enter politics and government are sociopaths and psychopaths. It's like the fruitkin agent in NO WAY OUT or the slimeball in CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. There are lots of good people in government, but some people just love power and wouldn't hesitate to do all sorts of slimeball stuff to get their way. Nixon had some real dirtbags working for him. So yes, morally a lot of people in government are capable of doing just about ANYTHING to get what they want.

    If these people in US government had the power of Old USSR or Red China, they would be doing horrible things. Indeed, most people in US government are no better(or worse) than most people in communist or fascist regimes. It's just that there are more checks and balances against total abuse of power in the US. Stalin and Mao could get away with killing of millions. In the US, even killing a few lives can be risky as hell for US government. Now, most Americans don't care if US actions lead to deaths of foreigners, even lots of them. But when it comes to US citizens, even the linkage of ONE death by government abuse of power could have huge repercussions. So, with such fear of consequences, people in US government have to think twice, thrice, frice, fiftice, etc. before deciding to pull some stunt where Americans will die.

    Now, there may be rogue elements in US government who might be plotting some dirty deed, but the idea of US president or top chiefs of any agency signing onto a plot that targets innocent US citizens? I don't see it. Not because such people aren't morally capable of it --- some of them are sociopath scum --- but because even psychos must know that the risks are too high.

    US government did infiltrate radical groups and encouraged their self-destructive tendencies. In Italy, there have been rumors and accusations that some of the Red terror in the 70s were actually carried out be far-right groups or rogue elements in the government. It comes more naturally to greasers maybe. They got that mafia culture thing, even in government.

    9/11 attack was huge. It was too big for rogue elements to pull it off. So, if it was a conspiracy done by the US government, it means the top people in various departments had to have been involved. It is simply incredible that all those people would sign onto a plot where 1000s of Americans would die in an attack on NY and Pentagon. There's no way US plotted this.
    At most, some rogue elements in US and Israel knew something was up but remained silent because the ensuing crisis would give US a window of opportunity to do whatever it wanted to in the Middle East for several yrs. The fact that US cannot smoke out those elements is the real shame of the nation. We know why. If it connects to Israel, there will be hell to pay. And the Jewish elites who run the US won't allow it. Just like they won't allow the full narrative of what really happened to USS Liberty.

    "but building seven was a controlled demolition"

    No, it wasn't. Read David Cole on the matter. He is totally convincing.

    http://takimag.com/article/enough_with_the_truthers_already_david_cole/print#axzz4HeL1ln8I

    One thing is certain. A lot of people in US government are sociopaths or sycophants(maybe they should be called psychophants). Sociopaths have no qualms about anything. And sycophants are so into their career and promotion that they just go along with the powers that be.

    From the Ukraine Crisis and Libya/Syria, I learned how vile, vicious, dirty, and lowdown people in US government can be. And the Western Media. So, if these people had the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin had, they would stop at nothing to push their ruthless demented agenda. And US agents have a freer reign to pull dirty shit OUTSIDE the US with non-US citizens.
    But when it comes to Americans, it is too risky for US government to have them killed(esp 1000s of them) just to push some agenda.

    However, in the War on Terror, we've seen how the line between US citizen and foreigner is getting blurred.
    There was a time when an American Citizen mostly referred to white Americans(and also to black Americans)with roots in American history. So, there was a clear distinction between American and non-American.

    But with massive immigration and rising Diversity, the meaning of 'American', 'citizen' , and 'foreigner' isn't as clear anymore. (Even the meaning of 'legal' and 'illegal' isn't clear anymore. PC says referring to any person as 'illegal' is dehumanizing'. We live in a nation that has trouble telling the difference between 'man' and 'woman', between true marriage and 'gay marriage'.)
    When 'American' meant white American with considerable roots in American land and history, the idea of US government killing US citizens would have sounded appalling.
    And when it came to US blacks, the mantra is their rights must be respected with Miranda rights. Richard Daley got hell for saying 'shoot to kill, shoot to maim'. So, even when blacks burn, loot, and kill, their rights must be respected and there must be due process. But in overseas ventures, if people get out of line, US military can just mow down entire peoples like in Serbia and Somalia. (And Americans sure don't care about all those dead Palestinians killed by Zionists and Yemenis killed by Saudis as allies of US.) But with so many US citizens now being non-white newcomers with shallow roots(and who move back and forth between the West and non-West), Americans are more willing to accept the 'right' of US government to kill US citizens if they are engaged in terrorism or suspected of such. These 'US citizens' are seen as foreign terrorists who just happened to have acquired US citizenship without genuine love of country.

    The dangerous implication of this logic is as follows: Killing foreign terrorists is a must. No need for due process and rule of law. Just kill the scumbag. If a Muslim US citizen is abroad and aiding terrorists, he too is a terrorist and should be killed on the spot. It violates due process, but since terrorists deserved to die, priority deems that he must killed too and due process must take the backseat. Such logic establishes that US citizen can be killed without due process for terror. But it sets the template that US government doesn't need due process to kill an American citizen. And if terror is used as the justification today, what will be invoked to kill US citizens in the future? And if Muslim US citizens are killed today, might it lead to the killing of white US citizens as well? Maybe for 'hate crimes'? With US government turning global than national, white American patriots in the future might be seen the way foreign terrorists are seen today. Today, terrorists abroad must killed for resisting US hegemony. Tomorrow, patriotic white 'haters' may have to be killed by US government for resisting Inclusive Globalist Hegemony.

    This is the problem of mass immigration and diversity. Notice how terrorist attack happens, and then the attacker is mentioned as a 'Norwegian' or 'Frenchman' or 'German' or 'Briton' when he is clearly an Arab or Muslim or some such. When Norwegians were all white, the idea of killing a Norwegian without due process would have been horrific. But with 'Norwegians' committing acts of terror and EU turning into a militarized zone, the authorities are more prone to gun down suspects terrorists on the spot without due process... even if they person is legally a 'European'. But if 'Europeans' could be killed without due process today for terror, might not real Europeans be killed without due process over some other excuse in the future?

    Even up to the early 90s, the term 'American' immediately invoked the image of White American with some roots in American history. But with massive immigration and promotion of Diversity, it is no longer so. Say 'American' today, and people see Diversity. So, American can mean some Muslim who's been in the US for just several yrs and got citizenship. He or she is deemed just as 'American' as Americans with ancestry going back to Mayflower. And with easy and cheap air travel, this 'American' might travel back and forth often between US and his native country. And with cellphone and internet, he could be communicating with people back home and even be plotting with them to pull some bad shit in the US. It could be terror or some fraud scheme like those pulled by Nigerians or Pakistanis. And all those Chinese with their birth tourism. They come here pregnant to have 'American' kids who are entitled to all the goodies.

    If the meaning of 'American' becomes so vague, and there is no longer any clear distinction between us and them, between whites and non-whites, then things may indeed get scarier for Americans.

    Traditionally, Americans haven't cared what the US government does overseas as long as it respects the Rights of US citizens. So, if US military mowed down 1000s of Somalis like in BLACKHAWK DOWN, no big deal. But if one Negro is killed under funny circumstances in the US, it is a very big deal.

    But as 'us and them' becomes blurred, 'they' are 'us' and 'we' are 'they'. And if US government can attack and kill 'them' by the bushel, and if 'they' and 'us' can no longer be told apart, it means US government may kill 'us' as 'them'.

    Indeed, this is related to the White Death phenom. US government no longer sees white American working class as True Americans with roots in the US. People whose ancestors built this nation. Instead, they are seen much like white people once used to regard American Indians. People who need to be pushed aside to make for the New Americans. So, 'they' become the new 'us'. This makes US more 'inclusive', but Americans nevertheless still don't care when US is killing bushels of foreigners abroad.
    I mean there never was a Iraqi Lives Matter when all those bombs were being dropped on Iraq. There never was a Libyan Lives Matter when US was turning Libyan cities to rubble. So, this invite/invade stuff is leading to some schizo-americanism.

    No, the government didn’t create the Branch Davidian Cult but US government ATF agents did use tactics best described as entrapment to drum up the charges of violations of gun laws. The claims of child molestation were clearly bogus to anyone who has watched the still available videos of the children’s interactions with David Koresh and knows the typical behavioural patterns of molested children.

    BTW, wacky religious cults are guaranteed religious freedom under the US Constitution 1st Amendment, how could you not know this?

    I gave up reading any more of the long rambling drivel that you wrote. Stick to your Hollywood movies, they are mostly made to appeal the the intellects of 15 year olds so I can see why you are so enamoured.

    I am so disappointed in you Priss/ Anonymny/DFS, I once was of the opinion that you were an original thinker but the more of your comments that I read the more I’m inclined to agree with your own earlier self assessment that you are just plain nutty.

    I think it was Ronald Thomas West who first claimed as much in an answer to me after I’d defended something you’d written. You’re now in close competition for prize idiot with that idiot Wiz.

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "BTW, wacky religious cults are guaranteed religious freedom under the US Constitution 1st Amendment, how could you not know this?"

    As long as they follow the law and respect the rights of other individuals within the cult.

    But some cults are crazy and try to turn people into virtual mental-emotional slaves.

    Surely, you heard of Manson family. The Jim Jones cult.
    Mhoon turned his minions into mind-slaves.
    Scientology came close at times into turning into a dangerous cult with total power over its minions.
    MOVE organization in Philly was nuts.
    Or consider the save-the-zombie cult in Dawn of the Dead.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRPHl1DIed4

    And if not for government intervention, the Mormons would have created a weirdo society.
    Ironically, the Morms, whose Christianity is wackiest, have become the most Normal Americans. It seems some homos are following the Mormon lead. The weird try to mask their weirdness with ultra-form-of-normality.

    Now, I'm wary of government intrusion into most affairs. Government can be overbearing. It is also never fair. For example, the elites are more likely to go after Catholic pedos than Jewish pedos. It is more likely to target white 'haters' than black ones. It is more likely to hunt Muslim spies than Zionist ones.
    Also, government pushes its own crazy cults like MLK worship, homomania, tranny-mania, xenomania... even calling kids of illegals 'dreamers'. With homomania as the new religion of america, there is no separation of church(or cult or chult) and state.

    But some cults are pretty crazy, and the government exists to look into possible abuses.

    Waco was handled terribly by the government, but it was not a false flag operation.
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  141. @RobinG
    Indeed. You must have been typing awfully fast to not see how ridiculous that was.

    A corollary to the harmless diesel fumes.... The pseudo-scientists who allege there was no gas residue at Auschwitz... but in practically the same paragraph they confess that people crowded into a windowless bunker would expire soon enough from lack of oxygen, with or without [Zyklon B].

    So, just how did they dispose of all the exhausted slave-laborers who could no longer drag themselves to IG Farben or the mines?

    You’re quite right, RobinG; I’m doing way too much retorting and reacting before far too little reflection (although Anonymny has not yet explained how he/she/they got from “no one knows for sure” to “it is certainly true . . .”).

    Is the phenomenon contagious?


    before committing the same offense another time, may I ask you to explain what you meant in #112 –

    “In 1985, I visited Auschwitz and Birkenau. We were also shown the film of the Red Army liberating the camp. If there was more comprehensive information about the Auschwitz complex, we missed it.”

    Is the implication that you believe you saw, in the buildings and the film, “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?” **

    In addition, I’ve read the wikipedia entry on Monowitz a few times. I do not understand your comment (also in #112):

    “Everyone says Wikipedia is biased and edited by hasbarat, etc., but this article does more to cast doubt on the Hollywood holocaust legend than all the “deniers.”

    I thought the article could have been written by a Hollywood scriptwriter, or maybe one of the fabulists who writes scenarios for the State Department. Do you really believe the anecdote about the I G Farben exec saying, Kill that Polish Jew, and he was summarily killed, dying in his comrade’s arms? Does Anna Netrebko do male roles?

    i.e.

    The pseudo-scientists who allege there was no gas residue at Auschwitz… but in practically the same paragraph they confess that people crowded into a windowless bunker would expire soon enough from lack of oxygen, with or without [Zyklon B].

    So, just how did they dispose of all the exhausted slave-laborers who could no longer drag themselves to IG Farben or the mines?

    This goes to what was very clumsily stated above, #125 — why are so many bits of history about WWII always all about Jews.

    That this is the case — that explanations of WWII situations are always all about Jews is summarized in a statement by Robert Cohen:

    Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews.http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited/#sthash.vPzE66Z7.dpuf

    Any and every explanation of how and why the war was fought must start with the premise that “it was all about the Jews,” then fit the rest of the facts of the situation into a relationship that will support that preordained conclusion. Further, even at this date, 70 years removed, Germans, Nazis, Hitler, the Third Reich may be perceived and defined only as brutish, evil, barbaric, genocidal and murderous. Those two presumptions are declared at the beginning of most histories or discussions of WWII, then fact fitted and forced to support them.

    I think it’s important to clear the mind of underlying assumptions, to break the frame imposed by the dominant narrative of “Jews = innocent victims, Hitler = irredeemably evil;” and free the mind to ask different questions about the evidence on the table.

    Applying such a method to your statements quoted above reveals some curious linkages. Based on the underlying pre assumption that Nazis are evil, they must have worked “slaves” to “exhaustion,” then, to dispose of their exhausted-but-live bodies they jammed them into confined spaces in which they are left to suffocate. Once the last bit of oxygen has been consumed and life squeezed from every body, they are removed and —- disposed of.

    Ooops.
    We still haven’t solved the problem of disposing of the corpses of “exhausted slave laborers who could no longer drag themselves to I G Farben.” We’ve only consumed a whole lotta man hours in the labor of moving “exhausted bodies” from one place to another to squeeze the last bit of oxygen from them.

    That’s what happens when the narrative must begin with “Jews = innocent & perpetual victims, the whole purpose of war = to exterminate Jews, and Nazis = evil.”

    I ask different questions and, I confess, start with a different set of pre-assumptions. Key among them are:
    A. in the early 1920s American and British war planners determined that the most effective way to fight a war would be with air power, used to destroy the adversary’s means of producing war materiel; and
    B. as Robert Kagan stated in a radio broadcast in ~2014 and Abraham Lincoln observed a century and a half earlier, the United States is a virtually unassailable fortress.
    C. The British and US Air Force were bombing the hell out of Germany at the time when I G Farben built factories to produce synthetic fuel, etc., while USA had begun as early as August 1938 to build dozens of aircraft factories in the USA, that German fighters could not touch.

    Applying my pre-assumptions to the Monowitz scenario, I would ask questions about why — or if — I G Farben would be so inefficient as to deliberately reduce its workforce to such a bedraggled state, given the organizational expertise made Germany an industrial powerhouse; and given that production of synthetic fuel was essential to the success of the Wehrmacht. Furthermore, the quoted anecdote is surely almost laughably false and melodramatic. How much more of the reporting on conditions at the I G Farben slave labor camp were similarly rendered through the same hyperbole machine?

    ** PS I recognize that having been to Iran, I have a far different attitude and way of thinking about Iran, US conflicts with Iran, etc. Having made a person-to-person connection has humanized what US government considers an enemy. Is it fair to speculate that your on-site experience at Auschwitz evoked a similar response, that you view the situation through a more humanistically informed perspective?

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    • Replies: @RobinG
    S2, you are really wired, either on caffeine or your own frayed nerves. Is there anything you can do to chill? Maybe you think this was incisively devastating, but I just think, oh brother, you're too hyped up to see what's written. (That can happen. I've done it.)

    The answer to your (2nd) question (after the 1st block quote) is self evident from the (my) next sentences. In 1985, there may well have been maps and explanations in the visitor's center. If so, I didn't notice them. Perhaps we were being hustled off to the tour. (I was with a university group, on a forced march sort of schedule.) Perhaps this was also explained in Wm. Shirer's book (read in 1980's) but I don't remember. So when I saw the photo of the Monowitz IG Farben plant it Wikipedia, it was new to me.

    I'm sorry that no one has yet replied that they've been there more recently and can tell us what is represented at Auschwitz now.

    About the Wiki, guess what, I didn't read it all, didn't see your story. But I've spoken with men (old soldiers of Hungary and Belarus) who saw SS officers shoot prisoners, in one case just to dispose of a slow walker. The point is that the images and scenes I recall from films here (which may not even be what the films were like, but just the impressions I'm left with) are trains unloading, people herded into crowded pens, then to death. But the Wiki, however Jew-centric you find it, blows that apart. They were brought to work and got a little extra food to do so (it says). That's all. Sure, other regimes have done this, but you can type all you want, I'm not going to flip over and say, "Oh dear, the poor Nazis, this was all foisted upon them."

    So, not extermination camps. Just brutal slave-labor camps. Are you so busy looking for incriminating details that you missed that broader concession? Your indifference to these unfortunate Jews is not becoming. I even prefer Art's "Little Jew, Big Jew" meme.

    "...humanistically informed perspective?" Not sure how that applies. There are no Jews there, or Germans. Birkenau was so desolate, quite apparent to me that I wouldn't have lasted long in those cold sheds in the winter. Auschwitz is very tidy, like a little Smithsonian exhibit. Even with the piles of eyeglasses, etc., much less emotional. But like I implied, the tour should include a visit to the remains (it was bombed) of the Buna-Werke (factory) or at least the site if it's no longer there.
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  142. @iffen
    …but this stuff is simply insane

    SC and ilk worship your grandparents; it's a religion.

    SC and ilk worship your grandparents; it’s a religion.

    Deuteronomy 5:16
    ‘Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may go well with you on the land which the LORD your God gives you.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    on the land which the LORD your God gives you.

    I thought you rejected the Jewish claim to the Land of Israel.
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  143. Rurik says:
    @RobinG
    WTF, Rurik...

    The best you can say is, "the jet that [USA and Kiev neo-Nazis allege that] Putin shot down in Ukraine."

    Hi Robin,

    I was trying to have fun with that one. Sort of as just one more example of how our entire Western world’s media and governments and institutions are all completely corrupted and in the service of $atan. To the point that they can actually just tell a lie like ‘Putin shot down the plane’, and then watch as the Australians and Dutch and everybody else just falls in line with the lie as if it had a shred of merit, when obviously it’s a ludicrous slander.

    How many other lies and slanders have they sold to us wholesale?

    I read somewhere that like 70% of the American public think Saddam had something to do with 911

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2003-09-06-poll-iraq_x.htm

    when he had nothing whatsoever to do with it, and they’ve always known that. But they lie with such alacrity and singular purpose that they’re easily able to steer the sheeple in any direction they want to. And they’re never held accountable.

    If it came out that MH17 was shot down by an Ukrainian pilot, (which it was ; ), there’d be nothing but yawns, just like with the lies about Saddam’s ‘ties’ to 911 or his ‘WMD’. They can start wars based on lies and slaughter and maim millions and create all sorts of international catastrophes and humanitarian holocausts of misery and suffering, and when it all comes out that it was all lies and treachery, the ones responsible can get elected president.

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  144. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @5371
    [While African women in Darfur were being raped by the Janjaweed militiamen, Arab women stood nearby and sang for joy, according to an Amnesty International report published yesterday.]

    These are Africans, that's their excuse for claiming something so comical. What's your excuse for believing it?

    your racism towards blacks is at an insane level. you have made jokes about the ongoing genocide in darfur before and now you have gone further denying it along with making jokes about it. they are not reliable witnesses because they are black ?

    your racism and hate towards blacks and jews end up turning you into the same type of person as the obviously dejected and defeated face in the photo at the begining of the article. thats your futute . enjoi !

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  145. iffen says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    SC and ilk worship your grandparents; it’s a religion.
     
    Deuteronomy 5:16
    'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be prolonged and that it may go well with you on the land which the LORD your God gives you.

    on the land which the LORD your God gives you.

    I thought you rejected the Jewish claim to the Land of Israel.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    Mary Settegast offers compelling evidence and argument that Zoroaster originated monotheistic beliefs and a religious system based on ethical behavior; Settegast believes the evidence proves that Zoroaster lived between 8000 BC and 6500 BC, well before Abraham appeared on the scene.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIxNlFQCLTk

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.

    It was Ezra, not Moses, who reduced to writing the tales Jews told themselves, and Ezra who wrote the Ten Commandments. Ezra was, of course, delegated to do so -- probably taught to write -- by members of the Persian monarchy at the time of the great King Cyrus or his heirs. Cyrus was a Zoroastrian. (It was also Cyrus who instructed that the temple be built in Jerusalem.

    So it's really Persians/Iranians who hold the deed to the so-called Land of Israel. Which might explain why zionists are so eager to knock them off.
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  146. @iffen
    They probably grew the forests to kill Jews.

    Katyn Forest Massacre explained!!!

    not that facts or reality ever got in the way of your Jews-as-victim obsession, iffen, but to the best of my knowledge, the victims at Katyn were Polish, and the killers were Russian, not German. And Katyn is not in Germany but in Poland. It was, however, a forest.

    other than that, spot on.

    There are forests in central Virginia. No doubt that signifies that Virginia is for Antisemites.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    the best of my knowledge

    Who to believe: Nazis or Stalinists? Decisions. Decisions.
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  147. @iffen
    on the land which the LORD your God gives you.

    I thought you rejected the Jewish claim to the Land of Israel.

    Mary Settegast offers compelling evidence and argument that Zoroaster originated monotheistic beliefs and a religious system based on ethical behavior; Settegast believes the evidence proves that Zoroaster lived between 8000 BC and 6500 BC, well before Abraham appeared on the scene.

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.

    It was Ezra, not Moses, who reduced to writing the tales Jews told themselves, and Ezra who wrote the Ten Commandments. Ezra was, of course, delegated to do so — probably taught to write — by members of the Persian monarchy at the time of the great King Cyrus or his heirs. Cyrus was a Zoroastrian. (It was also Cyrus who instructed that the temple be built in Jerusalem.

    So it’s really Persians/Iranians who hold the deed to the so-called Land of Israel. Which might explain why zionists are so eager to knock them off.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    who reduced to writing ... who hold the deed...


    Very important, just ask the American Indians.
    , @anon
    so the bible is a fake ripoff of local folktales . but the bible guarantees ownership of land to iranians. which one is it ?????

    so if the jewish bible is fake , how much more fake are islam and christianity which are both based on judaism and recycle many of the main players.?
    , @Art

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.
     
    There is only one reason that that the Jew old testament has any importance in this world. That is because of Jesus Christ. Without the importance of Jesus to humanity, the Jews old testament would have little value to the world.

    The thrust of the old testament is mean and cruel – the story in the new testament is the opposite – it is about hope and love and forgiveness. The early Catholic church built their religion around a new image of god – a different image of god then that of the Jew’s.

    Without question the practical political temporal authority of the Pope was a negative for humanity. Martin Luther did a good thing breaking that authority. But in the process he muddied the waters between these different images of god. He needed an authority other than the Catholic Pope for his new Protestant religion. Luther made the bible (old and new) the authority of his Christian religion. This has not worked well for Christianity.

    Whenever you see a Christian preacher go wrong, he is always sighting the Jew old testament.

    p.s. Make no mistake – the Jew outlook on life is antagonistic, bloody, and pessimistic. Look at Israel.
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  148. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke
    No, the government didn't create the Branch Davidian Cult but US government ATF agents did use tactics best described as entrapment to drum up the charges of violations of gun laws. The claims of child molestation were clearly bogus to anyone who has watched the still available videos of the children's interactions with David Koresh and knows the typical behavioural patterns of molested children.

    BTW, wacky religious cults are guaranteed religious freedom under the US Constitution 1st Amendment, how could you not know this?

    I gave up reading any more of the long rambling drivel that you wrote. Stick to your Hollywood movies, they are mostly made to appeal the the intellects of 15 year olds so I can see why you are so enamoured.

    I am so disappointed in you Priss/ Anonymny/DFS, I once was of the opinion that you were an original thinker but the more of your comments that I read the more I'm inclined to agree with your own earlier self assessment that you are just plain nutty.

    I think it was Ronald Thomas West who first claimed as much in an answer to me after I'd defended something you'd written. You're now in close competition for prize idiot with that idiot Wiz.

    “BTW, wacky religious cults are guaranteed religious freedom under the US Constitution 1st Amendment, how could you not know this?”

    As long as they follow the law and respect the rights of other individuals within the cult.

    But some cults are crazy and try to turn people into virtual mental-emotional slaves.

    Surely, you heard of Manson family. The Jim Jones cult.
    Mhoon turned his minions into mind-slaves.
    Scientology came close at times into turning into a dangerous cult with total power over its minions.
    MOVE organization in Philly was nuts.
    Or consider the save-the-zombie cult in Dawn of the Dead.

    [MORE]

    And if not for government intervention, the Mormons would have created a weirdo society.
    Ironically, the Morms, whose Christianity is wackiest, have become the most Normal Americans. It seems some homos are following the Mormon lead. The weird try to mask their weirdness with ultra-form-of-normality.

    Now, I’m wary of government intrusion into most affairs. Government can be overbearing. It is also never fair. For example, the elites are more likely to go after Catholic pedos than Jewish pedos. It is more likely to target white ‘haters’ than black ones. It is more likely to hunt Muslim spies than Zionist ones.
    Also, government pushes its own crazy cults like MLK worship, homomania, tranny-mania, xenomania… even calling kids of illegals ‘dreamers’. With homomania as the new religion of america, there is no separation of church(or cult or chult) and state.

    But some cults are pretty crazy, and the government exists to look into possible abuses.

    Waco was handled terribly by the government, but it was not a false flag operation.

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  149. iffen says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    Mary Settegast offers compelling evidence and argument that Zoroaster originated monotheistic beliefs and a religious system based on ethical behavior; Settegast believes the evidence proves that Zoroaster lived between 8000 BC and 6500 BC, well before Abraham appeared on the scene.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIxNlFQCLTk

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.

    It was Ezra, not Moses, who reduced to writing the tales Jews told themselves, and Ezra who wrote the Ten Commandments. Ezra was, of course, delegated to do so -- probably taught to write -- by members of the Persian monarchy at the time of the great King Cyrus or his heirs. Cyrus was a Zoroastrian. (It was also Cyrus who instructed that the temple be built in Jerusalem.

    So it's really Persians/Iranians who hold the deed to the so-called Land of Israel. Which might explain why zionists are so eager to knock them off.

    who reduced to writing … who hold the deed…

    Very important, just ask the American Indians.

    Read More
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  150. iffen says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    not that facts or reality ever got in the way of your Jews-as-victim obsession, iffen, but to the best of my knowledge, the victims at Katyn were Polish, and the killers were Russian, not German. And Katyn is not in Germany but in Poland. It was, however, a forest.

    other than that, spot on.

    There are forests in central Virginia. No doubt that signifies that Virginia is for Antisemites.

    the best of my knowledge

    Who to believe: Nazis or Stalinists? Decisions. Decisions.

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  151. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @SolontoCroesus
    Mary Settegast offers compelling evidence and argument that Zoroaster originated monotheistic beliefs and a religious system based on ethical behavior; Settegast believes the evidence proves that Zoroaster lived between 8000 BC and 6500 BC, well before Abraham appeared on the scene.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIxNlFQCLTk

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.

    It was Ezra, not Moses, who reduced to writing the tales Jews told themselves, and Ezra who wrote the Ten Commandments. Ezra was, of course, delegated to do so -- probably taught to write -- by members of the Persian monarchy at the time of the great King Cyrus or his heirs. Cyrus was a Zoroastrian. (It was also Cyrus who instructed that the temple be built in Jerusalem.

    So it's really Persians/Iranians who hold the deed to the so-called Land of Israel. Which might explain why zionists are so eager to knock them off.

    so the bible is a fake ripoff of local folktales . but the bible guarantees ownership of land to iranians. which one is it ?????

    so if the jewish bible is fake , how much more fake are islam and christianity which are both based on judaism and recycle many of the main players.?

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    syntax error > syntax error <

    It is not the Bible that guarantees ownership of the land to Iranians.

    Iranians civilized the land before there was a bible, or Hebrews/Jews/Israelis/zionists, from which it certainly follows that Christianity & Islam are dependent upon the ethical & precursor monotheistic beliefs of Zoroaster.

    Yossi Alpher said something funny, in a pathetic kind of way, that let the cat out of the bag of the deeply embedded Jewish inferiority complex. Alpher said:

    We Israelis, again, back to that isolation -- we Israelis, to this day, have a need to -- a deep need to be recognized and accepted by the region. You see, Bibi’s demand, which is supported by most Israelis, that the Palestinians recognize us as a Jewish state, or the state of the Jewish people -- the nation-state of the Jewish people -- this goes way back, this need to be recognized. . . .and so at the height of the periphery doctrine, when things are going well, there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, okay. We go back with Iran, we just celebrated Purim, all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. The Egyptian, the Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. So, this is almost a biblical -- a new biblical chapter.
    This is how some people in Israel felt. There were also some people who were just cynical,practitioners of realpolitik. Everybody in Tehran and in Addis and

    in Ankara were cynical practitioners of realpolitik. They did not reciprocate. They said, we kidded ourselves that they did. And we still do to this day, because if you believe that this is -- we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers, then who’s Khomeini? This wasn’t meant to be.
    And so the Shah falls, and there are all kinds of Iranians going around making contacts, and if you just give us this, that, and the other, we’ll get rid of these guys and go back to the good old days. https://www.brookings.edu/events/israels-periphery-doctrine-and-search-for-middle-east-allies/
     
    "We go back 2600 years with Iran . . ."

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe that Khomeini and the Muslims in Iran are interlopers; that Jews are the real heirs to the Persian empire.

    And Jews like Alpher are willing to -- and has-- destroy anything and anybody, any nation or culture that gets in the way of the huge imago that makes up the psychopathic god of zionism.

    Zionist Jews are willing to starve; to destroy the economy; to assassinate; to bomb, perhaps with nuclear weapons, Iranians in order to satisfy this belief that Jews are co-equal with Persian royalty.
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  152. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor
    "all they had to do is call the victims 'whackos' and say the children were molested, (and so they apparently deserved to die)"

    I don't know what happened exactly at Waco. But it is a fact that there was a wacky cult led by some nut. He also violated a bunch of gun laws and stuff. It was a crazy religious cult, no doubt about it. Did the government handle the problem responsibly? I don't think so, and I think most people don't think so. But it was a botched attempt at law enforcement.

    It was not a false flag operation. The government didn't create this cult, and the people in the compound were not 'actors' or agents pretending to make trouble. They were real weirdos.

    Your kind of conspiracy theorizing is on a different level. You're not talking of government incompetence or abuse of power in enforcement. You are saying the US government would create the very situation in which innocent Americans would get killed.
    It'd be like saying David Koresh was just a government agent. That no one really died in the standoff between US government and the Waco cultists. That it was all make-believe just to expand government power. Or, it's like saying the US government created the cult in order to bring about the violence that would expand government power.

    I mean if we are at it, why not say Timothy McVeigh was either a patsy or a government agent. Maybe he didn't blow up the building and was only brainwashed into thinking he did. Or maybe he wasn't executed. Maybe his death was faked, and he's still alive somewhere.

    Now, there are plenty of people in US government who would stop at nothing to get what they want. A lot of people who enter politics and government are sociopaths and psychopaths. It's like the fruitkin agent in NO WAY OUT or the slimeball in CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER. There are lots of good people in government, but some people just love power and wouldn't hesitate to do all sorts of slimeball stuff to get their way. Nixon had some real dirtbags working for him. So yes, morally a lot of people in government are capable of doing just about ANYTHING to get what they want.

    If these people in US government had the power of Old USSR or Red China, they would be doing horrible things. Indeed, most people in US government are no better(or worse) than most people in communist or fascist regimes. It's just that there are more checks and balances against total abuse of power in the US. Stalin and Mao could get away with killing of millions. In the US, even killing a few lives can be risky as hell for US government. Now, most Americans don't care if US actions lead to deaths of foreigners, even lots of them. But when it comes to US citizens, even the linkage of ONE death by government abuse of power could have huge repercussions. So, with such fear of consequences, people in US government have to think twice, thrice, frice, fiftice, etc. before deciding to pull some stunt where Americans will die.

    Now, there may be rogue elements in US government who might be plotting some dirty deed, but the idea of US president or top chiefs of any agency signing onto a plot that targets innocent US citizens? I don't see it. Not because such people aren't morally capable of it --- some of them are sociopath scum --- but because even psychos must know that the risks are too high.

    US government did infiltrate radical groups and encouraged their self-destructive tendencies. In Italy, there have been rumors and accusations that some of the Red terror in the 70s were actually carried out be far-right groups or rogue elements in the government. It comes more naturally to greasers maybe. They got that mafia culture thing, even in government.

    9/11 attack was huge. It was too big for rogue elements to pull it off. So, if it was a conspiracy done by the US government, it means the top people in various departments had to have been involved. It is simply incredible that all those people would sign onto a plot where 1000s of Americans would die in an attack on NY and Pentagon. There's no way US plotted this.
    At most, some rogue elements in US and Israel knew something was up but remained silent because the ensuing crisis would give US a window of opportunity to do whatever it wanted to in the Middle East for several yrs. The fact that US cannot smoke out those elements is the real shame of the nation. We know why. If it connects to Israel, there will be hell to pay. And the Jewish elites who run the US won't allow it. Just like they won't allow the full narrative of what really happened to USS Liberty.

    "but building seven was a controlled demolition"

    No, it wasn't. Read David Cole on the matter. He is totally convincing.

    http://takimag.com/article/enough_with_the_truthers_already_david_cole/print#axzz4HeL1ln8I

    One thing is certain. A lot of people in US government are sociopaths or sycophants(maybe they should be called psychophants). Sociopaths have no qualms about anything. And sycophants are so into their career and promotion that they just go along with the powers that be.

    From the Ukraine Crisis and Libya/Syria, I learned how vile, vicious, dirty, and lowdown people in US government can be. And the Western Media. So, if these people had the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin had, they would stop at nothing to push their ruthless demented agenda. And US agents have a freer reign to pull dirty shit OUTSIDE the US with non-US citizens.
    But when it comes to Americans, it is too risky for US government to have them killed(esp 1000s of them) just to push some agenda.

    However, in the War on Terror, we've seen how the line between US citizen and foreigner is getting blurred.
    There was a time when an American Citizen mostly referred to white Americans(and also to black Americans)with roots in American history. So, there was a clear distinction between American and non-American.

    But with massive immigration and rising Diversity, the meaning of 'American', 'citizen' , and 'foreigner' isn't as clear anymore. (Even the meaning of 'legal' and 'illegal' isn't clear anymore. PC says referring to any person as 'illegal' is dehumanizing'. We live in a nation that has trouble telling the difference between 'man' and 'woman', between true marriage and 'gay marriage'.)
    When 'American' meant white American with considerable roots in American land and history, the idea of US government killing US citizens would have sounded appalling.
    And when it came to US blacks, the mantra is their rights must be respected with Miranda rights. Richard Daley got hell for saying 'shoot to kill, shoot to maim'. So, even when blacks burn, loot, and kill, their rights must be respected and there must be due process. But in overseas ventures, if people get out of line, US military can just mow down entire peoples like in Serbia and Somalia. (And Americans sure don't care about all those dead Palestinians killed by Zionists and Yemenis killed by Saudis as allies of US.) But with so many US citizens now being non-white newcomers with shallow roots(and who move back and forth between the West and non-West), Americans are more willing to accept the 'right' of US government to kill US citizens if they are engaged in terrorism or suspected of such. These 'US citizens' are seen as foreign terrorists who just happened to have acquired US citizenship without genuine love of country.

    The dangerous implication of this logic is as follows: Killing foreign terrorists is a must. No need for due process and rule of law. Just kill the scumbag. If a Muslim US citizen is abroad and aiding terrorists, he too is a terrorist and should be killed on the spot. It violates due process, but since terrorists deserved to die, priority deems that he must killed too and due process must take the backseat. Such logic establishes that US citizen can be killed without due process for terror. But it sets the template that US government doesn't need due process to kill an American citizen. And if terror is used as the justification today, what will be invoked to kill US citizens in the future? And if Muslim US citizens are killed today, might it lead to the killing of white US citizens as well? Maybe for 'hate crimes'? With US government turning global than national, white American patriots in the future might be seen the way foreign terrorists are seen today. Today, terrorists abroad must killed for resisting US hegemony. Tomorrow, patriotic white 'haters' may have to be killed by US government for resisting Inclusive Globalist Hegemony.

    This is the problem of mass immigration and diversity. Notice how terrorist attack happens, and then the attacker is mentioned as a 'Norwegian' or 'Frenchman' or 'German' or 'Briton' when he is clearly an Arab or Muslim or some such. When Norwegians were all white, the idea of killing a Norwegian without due process would have been horrific. But with 'Norwegians' committing acts of terror and EU turning into a militarized zone, the authorities are more prone to gun down suspects terrorists on the spot without due process... even if they person is legally a 'European'. But if 'Europeans' could be killed without due process today for terror, might not real Europeans be killed without due process over some other excuse in the future?

    Even up to the early 90s, the term 'American' immediately invoked the image of White American with some roots in American history. But with massive immigration and promotion of Diversity, it is no longer so. Say 'American' today, and people see Diversity. So, American can mean some Muslim who's been in the US for just several yrs and got citizenship. He or she is deemed just as 'American' as Americans with ancestry going back to Mayflower. And with easy and cheap air travel, this 'American' might travel back and forth often between US and his native country. And with cellphone and internet, he could be communicating with people back home and even be plotting with them to pull some bad shit in the US. It could be terror or some fraud scheme like those pulled by Nigerians or Pakistanis. And all those Chinese with their birth tourism. They come here pregnant to have 'American' kids who are entitled to all the goodies.

    If the meaning of 'American' becomes so vague, and there is no longer any clear distinction between us and them, between whites and non-whites, then things may indeed get scarier for Americans.

    Traditionally, Americans haven't cared what the US government does overseas as long as it respects the Rights of US citizens. So, if US military mowed down 1000s of Somalis like in BLACKHAWK DOWN, no big deal. But if one Negro is killed under funny circumstances in the US, it is a very big deal.

    But as 'us and them' becomes blurred, 'they' are 'us' and 'we' are 'they'. And if US government can attack and kill 'them' by the bushel, and if 'they' and 'us' can no longer be told apart, it means US government may kill 'us' as 'them'.

    Indeed, this is related to the White Death phenom. US government no longer sees white American working class as True Americans with roots in the US. People whose ancestors built this nation. Instead, they are seen much like white people once used to regard American Indians. People who need to be pushed aside to make for the New Americans. So, 'they' become the new 'us'. This makes US more 'inclusive', but Americans nevertheless still don't care when US is killing bushels of foreigners abroad.
    I mean there never was a Iraqi Lives Matter when all those bombs were being dropped on Iraq. There never was a Libyan Lives Matter when US was turning Libyan cities to rubble. So, this invite/invade stuff is leading to some schizo-americanism.

    I don’t know what happened exactly at Waco. But it is a fact that there was a wacky cult led by some nut. He also violated a bunch of gun laws and stuff. It was a crazy religious cult, no doubt about it.

    that’s pretty much all they had to say after they assaulted, terrorized and then shot anyone trying to leave and burned those people (including children) alive

    “what’s that? Oh, they were whacky cult people?! well then f ‘em.

    Did the government handle the problem responsibly? I don’t think so, and I think most people don’t think so. But it was a botched attempt at law enforcement.

    it wasn’t a botched attempt at law enforcement, it was an horrific display of power-crazed thuggism gone insane with murderous blood lust.

    They could have arrested David Koresh anytime they wanted to. He was often out on runs or even and the shooting range with LEOs all the time. They wanted to be cowboys on camera showing us all how tough they were, and making a production out of their heroics as they assaulted the church people. But when the terrorized people shot back, and some of the “heroes” got a taste of what they were dishing out, they went insane. Literally, and became the Fiend incarnate.

    if you watch one of the more recent videos, you can listen to the conversations between the governments negotiator and the guy on the inside trying to negotiate their surrender, and the government guy says ‘their patience has run out, no one is coming out of there’.

    Koresh humiliated the Fiend, and the Fiend was hell bent on revenge. That’s a long way from a “botched attempt at law enforcement”.

    It was not a false flag operation. The government didn’t create this cult, and the people in the compound were not ‘actors’ or agents pretending to make trouble. They were real weirdos.

    I never said the government created them. All I said was that holocaust (literally) was just one more act of the US fecal government murdering US citizens. And yes, to try to justify it, they simply called them weirdo whackos. I suppose for a lot of people, that makes it all OK.

    One wonders, Priss.. what would they call you?

    You are saying the US government would create the very situation in which innocent Americans would get killed.

    that’s right

    at Waco and on 911 that is exactly what they did.

    In the case of Waco, it was a tragic attempt at macho, cowboy “heroics” that went terribly wrong and they made those people pay for their incompetence and stupidity and barbarism by burning them alive.

    In the case of 911, they deliberately wanted maximum casualties to create a sense of outrage in the American public, to get us willing to destroy entire countries inconvenient to Israel.

    Indeed, most people in US government are no better(or worse) than most people in communist or fascist regimes.

    well on this we sure agree!

    But when it comes to US citizens, even the linkage of ONE death by government abuse of power could have huge repercussions

    I remind you of Waco

    or Michael Hastings, who it appears to me was obviously assassinated by our government. And he’s a white guy. Very white.

    9/11 attack was huge. It was too big for rogue elements to pull it off.

    but not too big for a guy in a cave on dialysis with nineteen coke-snorting morons who couldn’t fly a Cessna, but who possessed magical passports that floated through the fireballs and carnage and gently dropped down to the NY street for the FBI to find who the culprits really were.

    It was huge, and so complicated that NORAD and SACs were paralyzed, standing there doe-eyed, and no jets were scrambled, and the “orders still stand”, and the anomalies and flat out lies and distortions and avalanche of impossibilities and destruction of forensic evidence and all the other proof that this was done at the highest levels of our gov/media, is all just waved away as too complicated for the Mossad and CIA and FBI and others to pull off. But the evil genius in the cave with his AK and box cutters, now it was nothing for him.

    It is simply incredible that all those people would sign onto a plot where 1000s of Americans would die in an attack on NY and Pentagon. There’s no way US plotted this.

    how many Americas do you suspect will end up dead as a result of the fecal government’s agenda of massive immigration of third world illiterates and stone age Muslims into the US? Eh?

    the numbers are already in the thousands. This is a campaign to destroy American’s way of life, and impose a new Orwellian agenda of Total government control over every facet of our lives. And it has and will get thousands of Americans killed and harmed and raped and slaughtered. And it’s being perpetrated with the full complicity of the fecal government and media and the highest levels of not just the US, but the entire western world.

    You of all people ought to be able to see the obvious in this. To pretend that our government doesn’t hate us and engage in conspiracies to see us dead and disenfranchised and used as cannon fodder for Israel, (which is what both world wars were all about) is really quite naïve from you Priss. IMHO

    “but building seven was a controlled demolition”

    No, it wasn’t.

    I don’t need any ‘expert’ to tell me what my eyes are perfectly able to see, thankyouverymuch.

    So, if these people had the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin had, they would stop at nothing to push their ruthless demented agenda

    Americans are still armed to the teeth. Wait for the day that they get the guns. Then watch what they do.

    It violates due process, but since terrorists deserved to die, priority deems that he must killed too and due process must take the backseat.

    and you’re naïve enough to think this will only be done to Muslim Americans? Who do you think they hate more, Muslims or white American, freedom-loving, patriotic men with guns?
    They already refer to veterans and people who quote the US Constitution as suspect terrorists, how far a leap is it to call you one?

    it means US government may kill ‘us’ as ‘them’.

    you’re catching on Priss!

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    • Replies: @Priss Factor
    "They could have arrested David Koresh anytime they wanted to. He was often out on runs or even and the shooting range with LEOs all the time. They wanted to be cowboys on camera showing us all how tough they were, and making a production out of their heroics as they assaulted the church people."

    Yeah, but it's still not false-flag.

    And there were no cameras when the three agents were killed. They were just doing their job, but the Waco nuts shot them, and then all hell broke loose. Look, if you kill federal officers, there's gonna be severe response. It's like what happened to the Dallas negro who killed cops. He was blown up by R2D2. Yes, Koresh could have been arrested alone earlier, but then the cult members would have been alerted and may have acted violently.
    Anyway, the whole thing could have been averted if Koresh gave himself up instead of killing the three agents. Once that happened, government couldn't cut any sweet deals.

    "guy on the inside trying to negotiate their surrender, and the government guy says ‘their patience has run out, no one is coming out of there’."

    But negotiate in good faith? Also, I mean what is there to negotiate? Just come out with their hands up. Did you see FROG DAY AFTERNOON? First, the police and agents try to negotiate, but things just get more and more difficult until the agents have to take tough measures. It is a key film of the 70s because even Lumet the liberal was admitting how badly the social revolution had gone in the 60s and early 70s. The ugly counter-culture, knee-jerk rebellion, populist radicalism, romanticization of criminals as heroes, media sensationalism, etc. It is the Anti-Bonnie-and-Clyde. It's like a movie version of Better Devils of Our Nature by Pinker. 70s NY going to hell, also seen in Taxi Driver and Cruising.
    Even Lumet the liberal, even as he empathizes with the hoodlums, fully understands why the gubment did what it had to do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB6Gk5EtunI

    I don't think US government is murderous when it comes to US citizens here. But it is reckless and mass-murderous with foreign peoples. If anything, most of the mayhem and murder and oppression in the US are not by the government but by black thugs, illegal drug cartels, radical activists, and a**holes of the type who attacked Trump supporters. If anything, cops should deal harshly with such thugs.
    Some yrs back, I was at Madison Wisc Halloween fest(out of nostalgia). Cops were very nice and professional. Good people doing their job. But when the night was coming to an end, a bunch of young punks all got together, chanted ugly stuff, and hurled stuff at mounted horses who didn't do anything. I wished the cops would give the punks the Chicago 68 treatment.
    People can be destructive. Look at the riot some yrs ago in Canada after a hockey game.
    Look at the fiasco that engulfed the Disco Demolition. It took Chicago cops to finally drive the morons off the field.

    "One wonders, Priss.. what would they call you?"

    One who spends nearly every waking hour writing extremely long-winded comments on websites, most of them off-topic, random, ignorant, insulting, rhetorical, and often vacuous, though admittedly sometimes amusing. Actually that's wrong---maybe a few hours each week are spent watching old movies, especially THE GODFATHER.

    In other words, they know I'm harmless. All talk, no walk.
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  153. imbroglio says:

    Wait, he left something out. The Jews are behind global climate change.

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  154. @anon
    so the bible is a fake ripoff of local folktales . but the bible guarantees ownership of land to iranians. which one is it ?????

    so if the jewish bible is fake , how much more fake are islam and christianity which are both based on judaism and recycle many of the main players.?

    syntax error > syntax error <

    It is not the Bible that guarantees ownership of the land to Iranians.

    Iranians civilized the land before there was a bible, or Hebrews/Jews/Israelis/zionists, from which it certainly follows that Christianity & Islam are dependent upon the ethical & precursor monotheistic beliefs of Zoroaster.

    Yossi Alpher said something funny, in a pathetic kind of way, that let the cat out of the bag of the deeply embedded Jewish inferiority complex. Alpher said:

    We Israelis, again, back to that isolation — we Israelis, to this day, have a need to — a deep need to be recognized and accepted by the region. You see, Bibi’s demand, which is supported by most Israelis, that the Palestinians recognize us as a Jewish state, or the state of the Jewish people — the nation-state of the Jewish people — this goes way back, this need to be recognized. . . .and so at the height of the periphery doctrine, when things are going well, there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, okay. We go back with Iran, we just celebrated Purim, all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. The Egyptian, the Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. So, this is almost a biblical — a new biblical chapter.
    This is how some people in Israel felt. There were also some people who were just cynical,practitioners of realpolitik. Everybody in Tehran and in Addis and

    in Ankara were cynical practitioners of realpolitik. They did not reciprocate. They said, we kidded ourselves that they did. And we still do to this day, because if you believe that this is — we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers, then who’s Khomeini? This wasn’t meant to be.
    And so the Shah falls, and there are all kinds of Iranians going around making contacts, and if you just give us this, that, and the other, we’ll get rid of these guys and go back to the good old days. https://www.brookings.edu/events/israels-periphery-doctrine-and-search-for-middle-east-allies/

    “We go back 2600 years with Iran . . .”

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe that Khomeini and the Muslims in Iran are interlopers; that Jews are the real heirs to the Persian empire.

    And Jews like Alpher are willing to — and has– destroy anything and anybody, any nation or culture that gets in the way of the huge imago that makes up the psychopathic god of zionism.

    Zionist Jews are willing to starve; to destroy the economy; to assassinate; to bomb, perhaps with nuclear weapons, Iranians in order to satisfy this belief that Jews are co-equal with Persian royalty.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    How do you know which Jews to believe, and when? Do you flip a coin?
    , @anon
    thats a lot of gibberish to sort through so ill just adress this :


    is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.
     
    persian blood is royalty ?
    by what authority ?
    i have never heard of anyone ,jew or gentile endorsing or giving deference to this claim. do you defer and prostrate yourself to persian royalty?

    58% of the jewish pop of israel are mizrahi , 5% ethiopian , 20% russian. why would you use jews with polish, lithuanian decent as an example when they are clearly a minority.
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  155. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    You're quite right, RobinG; I'm doing way too much retorting and reacting before far too little reflection (although Anonymny has not yet explained how he/she/they got from "no one knows for sure" to "it is certainly true . . .").

    Is the phenomenon contagious?

    ---
    before committing the same offense another time, may I ask you to explain what you meant in #112 --

    "In 1985, I visited Auschwitz and Birkenau. We were also shown the film of the Red Army liberating the camp. If there was more comprehensive information about the Auschwitz complex, we missed it."
     
    Is the implication that you believe you saw, in the buildings and the film, "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?" **

    In addition, I've read the wikipedia entry on Monowitz a few times. I do not understand your comment (also in #112):

    "Everyone says Wikipedia is biased and edited by hasbarat, etc., but this article does more to cast doubt on the Hollywood holocaust legend than all the “deniers.”
     
    I thought the article could have been written by a Hollywood scriptwriter, or maybe one of the fabulists who writes scenarios for the State Department. Do you really believe the anecdote about the I G Farben exec saying, Kill that Polish Jew, and he was summarily killed, dying in his comrade's arms? Does Anna Netrebko do male roles?

    i.e.

    The pseudo-scientists who allege there was no gas residue at Auschwitz… but in practically the same paragraph they confess that people crowded into a windowless bunker would expire soon enough from lack of oxygen, with or without [Zyklon B].

    So, just how did they dispose of all the exhausted slave-laborers who could no longer drag themselves to IG Farben or the mines?
     
    This goes to what was very clumsily stated above, #125 -- why are so many bits of history about WWII always all about Jews.

    That this is the case -- that explanations of WWII situations are always all about Jews is summarized in a statement by Robert Cohen:

    Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. - http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited/#sthash.vPzE66Z7.dpuf
     
    Any and every explanation of how and why the war was fought must start with the premise that "it was all about the Jews," then fit the rest of the facts of the situation into a relationship that will support that preordained conclusion. Further, even at this date, 70 years removed, Germans, Nazis, Hitler, the Third Reich may be perceived and defined only as brutish, evil, barbaric, genocidal and murderous. Those two presumptions are declared at the beginning of most histories or discussions of WWII, then fact fitted and forced to support them.

    I think it's important to clear the mind of underlying assumptions, to break the frame imposed by the dominant narrative of "Jews = innocent victims, Hitler = irredeemably evil;" and free the mind to ask different questions about the evidence on the table.


    Applying such a method to your statements quoted above reveals some curious linkages. Based on the underlying pre assumption that Nazis are evil, they must have worked "slaves" to "exhaustion," then, to dispose of their exhausted-but-live bodies they jammed them into confined spaces in which they are left to suffocate. Once the last bit of oxygen has been consumed and life squeezed from every body, they are removed and ---- disposed of.

    Ooops.
    We still haven't solved the problem of disposing of the corpses of "exhausted slave laborers who could no longer drag themselves to I G Farben." We've only consumed a whole lotta man hours in the labor of moving "exhausted bodies" from one place to another to squeeze the last bit of oxygen from them.

    That's what happens when the narrative must begin with "Jews = innocent & perpetual victims, the whole purpose of war = to exterminate Jews, and Nazis = evil."

    I ask different questions and, I confess, start with a different set of pre-assumptions. Key among them are:
    A. in the early 1920s American and British war planners determined that the most effective way to fight a war would be with air power, used to destroy the adversary's means of producing war materiel; and
    B. as Robert Kagan stated in a radio broadcast in ~2014 and Abraham Lincoln observed a century and a half earlier, the United States is a virtually unassailable fortress.
    C. The British and US Air Force were bombing the hell out of Germany at the time when I G Farben built factories to produce synthetic fuel, etc., while USA had begun as early as August 1938 to build dozens of aircraft factories in the USA, that German fighters could not touch.

    Applying my pre-assumptions to the Monowitz scenario, I would ask questions about why -- or if -- I G Farben would be so inefficient as to deliberately reduce its workforce to such a bedraggled state, given the organizational expertise made Germany an industrial powerhouse; and given that production of synthetic fuel was essential to the success of the Wehrmacht. Furthermore, the quoted anecdote is surely almost laughably false and melodramatic. How much more of the reporting on conditions at the I G Farben slave labor camp were similarly rendered through the same hyperbole machine?

    ** PS I recognize that having been to Iran, I have a far different attitude and way of thinking about Iran, US conflicts with Iran, etc. Having made a person-to-person connection has humanized what US government considers an enemy. Is it fair to speculate that your on-site experience at Auschwitz evoked a similar response, that you view the situation through a more humanistically informed perspective?

    S2, you are really wired, either on caffeine or your own frayed nerves. Is there anything you can do to chill? Maybe you think this was incisively devastating, but I just think, oh brother, you’re too hyped up to see what’s written. (That can happen. I’ve done it.)

    The answer to your (2nd) question (after the 1st block quote) is self evident from the (my) next sentences. In 1985, there may well have been maps and explanations in the visitor’s center. If so, I didn’t notice them. Perhaps we were being hustled off to the tour. (I was with a university group, on a forced march sort of schedule.) Perhaps this was also explained in Wm. Shirer’s book (read in 1980′s) but I don’t remember. So when I saw the photo of the Monowitz IG Farben plant it Wikipedia, it was new to me.

    I’m sorry that no one has yet replied that they’ve been there more recently and can tell us what is represented at Auschwitz now.

    About the Wiki, guess what, I didn’t read it all, didn’t see your story. But I’ve spoken with men (old soldiers of Hungary and Belarus) who saw SS officers shoot prisoners, in one case just to dispose of a slow walker. The point is that the images and scenes I recall from films here (which may not even be what the films were like, but just the impressions I’m left with) are trains unloading, people herded into crowded pens, then to death. But the Wiki, however Jew-centric you find it, blows that apart. They were brought to work and got a little extra food to do so (it says). That’s all. Sure, other regimes have done this, but you can type all you want, I’m not going to flip over and say, “Oh dear, the poor Nazis, this was all foisted upon them.”

    So, not extermination camps. Just brutal slave-labor camps. Are you so busy looking for incriminating details that you missed that broader concession? Your indifference to these unfortunate Jews is not becoming. I even prefer Art’s “Little Jew, Big Jew” meme.

    “…humanistically informed perspective?” Not sure how that applies. There are no Jews there, or Germans. Birkenau was so desolate, quite apparent to me that I wouldn’t have lasted long in those cold sheds in the winter. Auschwitz is very tidy, like a little Smithsonian exhibit. Even with the piles of eyeglasses, etc., much less emotional. But like I implied, the tour should include a visit to the remains (it was bombed) of the Buna-Werke (factory) or at least the site if it’s no longer there.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus

    So, not extermination camps.
     
    It occurred to me in the middle of the night: the wikipedia article (the bits that you read) caused you to realize that Auschwitz was a work camp not an "extermination camp."

    I thought everybody knew that.

    Jewish leaders certainly knew that.

    I'm pretty sure I've linked to a paper Rafael Medoff wrote for the Wyman Center that quoted David Ben Gurion, director of the Jewish Agency, about whether the Agency should ask the Allies to bomb Auschwitz. On June 11, 1944 the Agency met and reached the consensus opinion that "they believed Auschwitz was a labor camp," and "they did not want to be responsible for harm to come to a single Jewish person."

    nb. RobinG, I believe that a short while ago you commented that "SC is not a holocaust denier." Thank you for your support, but while semantically true, in fact, that is not the case.

    I do not consider myself a holocaust denier because the term forces one to implicitly affirm that something called a holocaust is the obvious truth. Based on the evidence I have seen, and the many books, articles and lectures I have read and studied, I conclude that the construct is built on the basest of lies.

    I think the holocaust narrative is bogus, a lie, and that the well-being of the USA (and of Israel & Jewish people, but they're not my chief concern) demands that the dogmatized holocaust narrative be deconstructed. I consider it a moral imperative to tell the truth about the 20th century's Thirty Years war and its long and bloody sequels.

    You really should actually read some small portion of the masses of material about the alleged holocaust, RobinG; after a while you develop the ability to trace the ways that a new lie had to be concocted to cover up the exposure of an older lie. I'm listening to a series of lectures by David Engel, prof. of holocaust studies at NYU and a "scholar" for the holohoax museum in DC. I'm listening while cleaning out a basement, so I went thru the whole program two or three times, then a fourth time for certain parts. The instances of self-contradiction; the numbers of pompous and arrogant but baseless assertions take your breath away. That this person is teaching the young people who will lead the USA is absolutely frightening.

    Your indifference to these unfortunate Jews is not becoming.
     
    Spare me the violins about "these unfortunate Jews." They've had their 15 min of sadomasochistic fame at the expense of millions of people who have been killed or their lives, homelands and cultures destroyed in service to their psychopathology. You too, iffen.

    My heart bleeds for truly "unfortunate people" like German_reader; he/she is the victim of a "living genocide," hollowed out, psychologically abused to the point of being induced to "dishonor thy father and thy mother," and to deny or loose connection with their very culture, the unifying glue of a great people.
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  156. iffen says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    syntax error > syntax error <

    It is not the Bible that guarantees ownership of the land to Iranians.

    Iranians civilized the land before there was a bible, or Hebrews/Jews/Israelis/zionists, from which it certainly follows that Christianity & Islam are dependent upon the ethical & precursor monotheistic beliefs of Zoroaster.

    Yossi Alpher said something funny, in a pathetic kind of way, that let the cat out of the bag of the deeply embedded Jewish inferiority complex. Alpher said:

    We Israelis, again, back to that isolation -- we Israelis, to this day, have a need to -- a deep need to be recognized and accepted by the region. You see, Bibi’s demand, which is supported by most Israelis, that the Palestinians recognize us as a Jewish state, or the state of the Jewish people -- the nation-state of the Jewish people -- this goes way back, this need to be recognized. . . .and so at the height of the periphery doctrine, when things are going well, there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, okay. We go back with Iran, we just celebrated Purim, all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. The Egyptian, the Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. So, this is almost a biblical -- a new biblical chapter.
    This is how some people in Israel felt. There were also some people who were just cynical,practitioners of realpolitik. Everybody in Tehran and in Addis and

    in Ankara were cynical practitioners of realpolitik. They did not reciprocate. They said, we kidded ourselves that they did. And we still do to this day, because if you believe that this is -- we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers, then who’s Khomeini? This wasn’t meant to be.
    And so the Shah falls, and there are all kinds of Iranians going around making contacts, and if you just give us this, that, and the other, we’ll get rid of these guys and go back to the good old days. https://www.brookings.edu/events/israels-periphery-doctrine-and-search-for-middle-east-allies/
     
    "We go back 2600 years with Iran . . ."

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe that Khomeini and the Muslims in Iran are interlopers; that Jews are the real heirs to the Persian empire.

    And Jews like Alpher are willing to -- and has-- destroy anything and anybody, any nation or culture that gets in the way of the huge imago that makes up the psychopathic god of zionism.

    Zionist Jews are willing to starve; to destroy the economy; to assassinate; to bomb, perhaps with nuclear weapons, Iranians in order to satisfy this belief that Jews are co-equal with Persian royalty.

    How do you know which Jews to believe, and when? Do you flip a coin?

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  157. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @SolontoCroesus
    syntax error > syntax error <

    It is not the Bible that guarantees ownership of the land to Iranians.

    Iranians civilized the land before there was a bible, or Hebrews/Jews/Israelis/zionists, from which it certainly follows that Christianity & Islam are dependent upon the ethical & precursor monotheistic beliefs of Zoroaster.

    Yossi Alpher said something funny, in a pathetic kind of way, that let the cat out of the bag of the deeply embedded Jewish inferiority complex. Alpher said:

    We Israelis, again, back to that isolation -- we Israelis, to this day, have a need to -- a deep need to be recognized and accepted by the region. You see, Bibi’s demand, which is supported by most Israelis, that the Palestinians recognize us as a Jewish state, or the state of the Jewish people -- the nation-state of the Jewish people -- this goes way back, this need to be recognized. . . .and so at the height of the periphery doctrine, when things are going well, there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, okay. We go back with Iran, we just celebrated Purim, all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. The Egyptian, the Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. So, this is almost a biblical -- a new biblical chapter.
    This is how some people in Israel felt. There were also some people who were just cynical,practitioners of realpolitik. Everybody in Tehran and in Addis and

    in Ankara were cynical practitioners of realpolitik. They did not reciprocate. They said, we kidded ourselves that they did. And we still do to this day, because if you believe that this is -- we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers, then who’s Khomeini? This wasn’t meant to be.
    And so the Shah falls, and there are all kinds of Iranians going around making contacts, and if you just give us this, that, and the other, we’ll get rid of these guys and go back to the good old days. https://www.brookings.edu/events/israels-periphery-doctrine-and-search-for-middle-east-allies/
     
    "We go back 2600 years with Iran . . ."

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.

    Yossi is saying that Jews in Israel believe that Khomeini and the Muslims in Iran are interlopers; that Jews are the real heirs to the Persian empire.

    And Jews like Alpher are willing to -- and has-- destroy anything and anybody, any nation or culture that gets in the way of the huge imago that makes up the psychopathic god of zionism.

    Zionist Jews are willing to starve; to destroy the economy; to assassinate; to bomb, perhaps with nuclear weapons, Iranians in order to satisfy this belief that Jews are co-equal with Persian royalty.

    thats a lot of gibberish to sort through so ill just adress this :

    is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.

    persian blood is royalty ?
    by what authority ?
    i have never heard of anyone ,jew or gentile endorsing or giving deference to this claim. do you defer and prostrate yourself to persian royalty?

    58% of the jewish pop of israel are mizrahi , 5% ethiopian , 20% russian. why would you use jews with polish, lithuanian decent as an example when they are clearly a minority.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    I think that he is helping lay the groundwork for the Jews to claim the Sassanid Empire, or the Archaemenid one. Talk about your Greater Israel.
    , @SolontoCroesus
    That "most Israelis" seek to be recognized, and their linkage to various Middle Eastern royal dynasties is not a claim I made, anon, it's a claim Yossi Alpher made. (re-Posted below, for your convenience.)

    Alpher, who was born in Washington, DC, served in IDF, spent 12 years in Mossad, and is former director of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University.

    Here are his words, from a conversation with Bruce Reidel at the Brookings Institute's Saul/Zikha rooms in Feb. 2015:

    there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, [1
    ]okay. We go back with Iran, [2]
    we just celebrated Purim, [3]
    all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. [4]
    The Egyptian& Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. [5] So, this is almost a biblical — a new biblical chapter.

    This is how some people in Israel felt. There were also some people who were just cynical,practitioners of realpolitik. Everybody in Tehran and in Addis and in Ankara were cynical practitioners of realpolitik. They did not reciprocate. They said, we kidded ourselves that they did. And we still do to this day, because if you believe that this is — we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers [6]. . .
     
    [1] You didn't ask about this but it's intriguing: Alpher seeks to distance Israelis from an Arab past. Yossi Alpher is antisemitic! (Iranians/Persians are not Arab, not Semites, but Aryans, from the plateau in the Caucasus.

    [2] per Alpher, Israeli Jews trace their lineage to Iran 2600 years ago. (As mentioned elsewhere, with reference to Mary Settegast, he roots of Iranian/Persian Zoroastrian tradition date back to somewhere between 8000 BC and 6500 BC. When Hebrews encountered Persians 2600 years ago, Cyrus's Zoroastrian tradition was already over 3000 years old.

    [3] . . .Purim . . .-- commemoration of Esther usurping the place of Vashti, Queen of Persia and wife of Ahasuerus. Ahasuerus and Vashti were king and queen, i.e. royalty. Esther became Queen Esther. Royalty. Esther is buried in a royal tomb in Iran.

    [4] see [2].

    [5] King Solomon, Queen of Sheba -- royalty.

    [6] We Israeli Jews are "blood brothers" with these Middle Eastern royal dynasties, and "we Israelis . . . most Israelis" need to be recognized as such.

    Yossi's words.
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  158. iffen says:
    @anon
    thats a lot of gibberish to sort through so ill just adress this :


    is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.
     
    persian blood is royalty ?
    by what authority ?
    i have never heard of anyone ,jew or gentile endorsing or giving deference to this claim. do you defer and prostrate yourself to persian royalty?

    58% of the jewish pop of israel are mizrahi , 5% ethiopian , 20% russian. why would you use jews with polish, lithuanian decent as an example when they are clearly a minority.

    I think that he is helping lay the groundwork for the Jews to claim the Sassanid Empire, or the Archaemenid one. Talk about your Greater Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    yes
    i believe that among the ziocons this is refereed to as the yinon plan 2.0 . barbara specter will have a youtube video explaining it all real soon !!!!
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  159. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website
    @Rurik

    I don’t know what happened exactly at Waco. But it is a fact that there was a wacky cult led by some nut. He also violated a bunch of gun laws and stuff. It was a crazy religious cult, no doubt about it.
     
    that's pretty much all they had to say after they assaulted, terrorized and then shot anyone trying to leave and burned those people (including children) alive

    "what's that? Oh, they were whacky cult people?! well then f 'em.

    Did the government handle the problem responsibly? I don’t think so, and I think most people don’t think so. But it was a botched attempt at law enforcement.
     
    it wasn't a botched attempt at law enforcement, it was an horrific display of power-crazed thuggism gone insane with murderous blood lust.

    They could have arrested David Koresh anytime they wanted to. He was often out on runs or even and the shooting range with LEOs all the time. They wanted to be cowboys on camera showing us all how tough they were, and making a production out of their heroics as they assaulted the church people. But when the terrorized people shot back, and some of the "heroes" got a taste of what they were dishing out, they went insane. Literally, and became the Fiend incarnate.

    if you watch one of the more recent videos, you can listen to the conversations between the governments negotiator and the guy on the inside trying to negotiate their surrender, and the government guy says 'their patience has run out, no one is coming out of there'.

    Koresh humiliated the Fiend, and the Fiend was hell bent on revenge. That's a long way from a "botched attempt at law enforcement".

    It was not a false flag operation. The government didn’t create this cult, and the people in the compound were not ‘actors’ or agents pretending to make trouble. They were real weirdos.
     
    I never said the government created them. All I said was that holocaust (literally) was just one more act of the US fecal government murdering US citizens. And yes, to try to justify it, they simply called them weirdo whackos. I suppose for a lot of people, that makes it all OK.

    One wonders, Priss.. what would they call you?

    You are saying the US government would create the very situation in which innocent Americans would get killed.
     
    that's right

    at Waco and on 911 that is exactly what they did.

    In the case of Waco, it was a tragic attempt at macho, cowboy "heroics" that went terribly wrong and they made those people pay for their incompetence and stupidity and barbarism by burning them alive.

    In the case of 911, they deliberately wanted maximum casualties to create a sense of outrage in the American public, to get us willing to destroy entire countries inconvenient to Israel.

    Indeed, most people in US government are no better(or worse) than most people in communist or fascist regimes.
     
    well on this we sure agree!

    But when it comes to US citizens, even the linkage of ONE death by government abuse of power could have huge repercussions
     
    I remind you of Waco

    or Michael Hastings, who it appears to me was obviously assassinated by our government. And he's a white guy. Very white.

    9/11 attack was huge. It was too big for rogue elements to pull it off.
     
    but not too big for a guy in a cave on dialysis with nineteen coke-snorting morons who couldn't fly a Cessna, but who possessed magical passports that floated through the fireballs and carnage and gently dropped down to the NY street for the FBI to find who the culprits really were.

    It was huge, and so complicated that NORAD and SACs were paralyzed, standing there doe-eyed, and no jets were scrambled, and the "orders still stand", and the anomalies and flat out lies and distortions and avalanche of impossibilities and destruction of forensic evidence and all the other proof that this was done at the highest levels of our gov/media, is all just waved away as too complicated for the Mossad and CIA and FBI and others to pull off. But the evil genius in the cave with his AK and box cutters, now it was nothing for him.

    It is simply incredible that all those people would sign onto a plot where 1000s of Americans would die in an attack on NY and Pentagon. There’s no way US plotted this.
     
    how many Americas do you suspect will end up dead as a result of the fecal government's agenda of massive immigration of third world illiterates and stone age Muslims into the US? Eh?

    the numbers are already in the thousands. This is a campaign to destroy American's way of life, and impose a new Orwellian agenda of Total government control over every facet of our lives. And it has and will get thousands of Americans killed and harmed and raped and slaughtered. And it's being perpetrated with the full complicity of the fecal government and media and the highest levels of not just the US, but the entire western world.

    You of all people ought to be able to see the obvious in this. To pretend that our government doesn't hate us and engage in conspiracies to see us dead and disenfranchised and used as cannon fodder for Israel, (which is what both world wars were all about) is really quite naïve from you Priss. IMHO

    “but building seven was a controlled demolition”

    No, it wasn’t.
     
    I don't need any 'expert' to tell me what my eyes are perfectly able to see, thankyouverymuch.

    So, if these people had the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin had, they would stop at nothing to push their ruthless demented agenda
     
    Americans are still armed to the teeth. Wait for the day that they get the guns. Then watch what they do.

    It violates due process, but since terrorists deserved to die, priority deems that he must killed too and due process must take the backseat.
     
    and you're naïve enough to think this will only be done to Muslim Americans? Who do you think they hate more, Muslims or white American, freedom-loving, patriotic men with guns?
    They already refer to veterans and people who quote the US Constitution as suspect terrorists, how far a leap is it to call you one?

    it means US government may kill ‘us’ as ‘them’.

     

    you're catching on Priss!

    “They could have arrested David Koresh anytime they wanted to. He was often out on runs or even and the shooting range with LEOs all the time. They wanted to be cowboys on camera showing us all how tough they were, and making a production out of their heroics as they assaulted the church people.”

    Yeah, but it’s still not false-flag.

    And there were no cameras when the three agents were killed. They were just doing their job, but the Waco nuts shot them, and then all hell broke loose. Look, if you kill federal officers, there’s gonna be severe response. It’s like what happened to the Dallas negro who killed cops. He was blown up by R2D2. Yes, Koresh could have been arrested alone earlier, but then the cult members would have been alerted and may have acted violently.
    Anyway, the whole thing could have been averted if Koresh gave himself up instead of killing the three agents. Once that happened, government couldn’t cut any sweet deals.

    “guy on the inside trying to negotiate their surrender, and the government guy says ‘their patience has run out, no one is coming out of there’.”

    But negotiate in good faith? Also, I mean what is there to negotiate? Just come out with their hands up. Did you see FROG DAY AFTERNOON? First, the police and agents try to negotiate, but things just get more and more difficult until the agents have to take tough measures. It is a key film of the 70s because even Lumet the liberal was admitting how badly the social revolution had gone in the 60s and early 70s. The ugly counter-culture, knee-jerk rebellion, populist radicalism, romanticization of criminals as heroes, media sensationalism, etc. It is the Anti-Bonnie-and-Clyde. It’s like a movie version of Better Devils of Our Nature by Pinker. 70s NY going to hell, also seen in Taxi Driver and Cruising.
    Even Lumet the liberal, even as he empathizes with the hoodlums, fully understands why the gubment did what it had to do.

    [MORE]

    I don’t think US government is murderous when it comes to US citizens here. But it is reckless and mass-murderous with foreign peoples. If anything, most of the mayhem and murder and oppression in the US are not by the government but by black thugs, illegal drug cartels, radical activists, and a**holes of the type who attacked Trump supporters. If anything, cops should deal harshly with such thugs.
    Some yrs back, I was at Madison Wisc Halloween fest(out of nostalgia). Cops were very nice and professional. Good people doing their job. But when the night was coming to an end, a bunch of young punks all got together, chanted ugly stuff, and hurled stuff at mounted horses who didn’t do anything. I wished the cops would give the punks the Chicago 68 treatment.
    People can be destructive. Look at the riot some yrs ago in Canada after a hockey game.
    Look at the fiasco that engulfed the Disco Demolition. It took Chicago cops to finally drive the morons off the field.

    “One wonders, Priss.. what would they call you?”

    One who spends nearly every waking hour writing extremely long-winded comments on websites, most of them off-topic, random, ignorant, insulting, rhetorical, and often vacuous, though admittedly sometimes amusing. Actually that’s wrong—maybe a few hours each week are spent watching old movies, especially THE GODFATHER.

    In other words, they know I’m harmless. All talk, no walk.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    ..their heroics as they assaulted the church people.”

    Yeah, but it’s still not false-flag.
     
    Well, I never said it was.

    Waco was like Ruby Ridge, another infamous and murderous act of the fecal government, where they murdered woman and child with equal callous disregard.

    And if you think the American people would get too outraged over our government murdering and assassinating American women and children, well then all they have to do is smear the victims as 'whackos' or 'white supremacists', and then here's how Bill Maher will express his outrage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdY8GTl76-Q

    (Randy Weaver was never in the Aryan Nations. In fact the reason the fecals decided to terrorize him is because he simply refused to infiltrate some group like that and act as an informer for the FBI. For his refusal, they murdered his wife and son.)

    they shot a twelve year old boy in the back, killing him, and the guy laughs and says the dog's death was the only tragedy.

    Also of note is that the sniper who shot Vicky Weaver standing in her cabin doorway holding her newborn was also one of the snipers at Waco, shooting Americans with cold precision.

    No, Waco and Ruby Ridge were not false flags. They were examples of our fecal government's murderous hatred for Americans who want to be left alone. Who march to a different drummer and who have a deep suspicion of the Federal government and its assorted mechanizations and uniformed, murderous goons.

    And I only bring them up as just more proof that our fecal government not only is perfectly willing to murder American citizens, including white ones, and then you can sit back and watch Bill Maher mock those deaths to the giggles of his audience. Like he does those who died on 911 and those who want to get at the truth.

    And there were no cameras when the three agents were killed. They were just doing their job, but the Waco nuts shot them, and then all hell broke loose.
     
    they assaulted the compound without warning. Went in with guns blazing, and then acted shocked when the terrified residents shot back once the shooting started. (The fecal marshals shot first).

    Once that happened, government couldn’t cut any sweet deals.
     
    they didn't want any sweet deals, just not to be shot while walking out to the murderous goons who were terrorizing them, and shooting them when they walked outside.

    In other words, they know I’m harmless. All talk, no walk.
     
    I remember reading about what they did to Julius Streicher, a German publisher who as far as I know never broke a law or harmed one hair on anyone's head. But because he said things about Jews that Jews didn't like, he was tortured and hanged by the allies. From memory, one of the things they did to him was force his mouth open with a piece of wood, and then Negros and Jews would take turns spitting into his mouth.

    Then they hanged him.

    For what he wrote about Jews.
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  160. @iffen
    …but this stuff is simply insane

    SC and ilk worship your grandparents; it's a religion.

    My grandparents (only German on my maternal side btw) weren’t Holocaust deniers though…my grandfather was in Ukraine and Belarus during the war and heard at least rumours about the extermination camps during the war, and never had any doubts that it all was true. There’s a reason why Holocaust denial never was more than a fringe element in post-war Germany…it’s just obviously nonsense.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    My grandparents (only German on my maternal side btw) weren’t Holocaust deniers

    Did not wish to imply that in any manner.

    SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII. (Needless to say, other nationalities have committed similar acts, it's not Germans, it's humans.)
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  161. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @iffen
    I think that he is helping lay the groundwork for the Jews to claim the Sassanid Empire, or the Archaemenid one. Talk about your Greater Israel.

    yes
    i believe that among the ziocons this is refereed to as the yinon plan 2.0 . barbara specter will have a youtube video explaining it all real soon !!!!

    Read More
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  162. Art says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    Mary Settegast offers compelling evidence and argument that Zoroaster originated monotheistic beliefs and a religious system based on ethical behavior; Settegast believes the evidence proves that Zoroaster lived between 8000 BC and 6500 BC, well before Abraham appeared on the scene.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIxNlFQCLTk

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.

    It was Ezra, not Moses, who reduced to writing the tales Jews told themselves, and Ezra who wrote the Ten Commandments. Ezra was, of course, delegated to do so -- probably taught to write -- by members of the Persian monarchy at the time of the great King Cyrus or his heirs. Cyrus was a Zoroastrian. (It was also Cyrus who instructed that the temple be built in Jerusalem.

    So it's really Persians/Iranians who hold the deed to the so-called Land of Israel. Which might explain why zionists are so eager to knock them off.

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.

    There is only one reason that that the Jew old testament has any importance in this world. That is because of Jesus Christ. Without the importance of Jesus to humanity, the Jews old testament would have little value to the world.

    The thrust of the old testament is mean and cruel – the story in the new testament is the opposite – it is about hope and love and forgiveness. The early Catholic church built their religion around a new image of god – a different image of god then that of the Jew’s.

    Without question the practical political temporal authority of the Pope was a negative for humanity. Martin Luther did a good thing breaking that authority. But in the process he muddied the waters between these different images of god. He needed an authority other than the Catholic Pope for his new Protestant religion. Luther made the bible (old and new) the authority of his Christian religion. This has not worked well for Christianity.

    Whenever you see a Christian preacher go wrong, he is always sighting the Jew old testament.

    p.s. Make no mistake – the Jew outlook on life is antagonistic, bloody, and pessimistic. Look at Israel.

    Read More
    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    yoo-hoo, Art, hellooo ---

    here's the thrust of Mary Settegast's -- and my -- claim:

    Zoroaster

    came

    first.

    By several thousand years.

    Evangelicals happily give Jews their head as they relegate to obscurity Zoroaster and Cyrus, the most important figure, the 'gods-figure, end the only historically verifiable figure in the entire Old Testament.

    re:

    There is only one reason that that the Jew old testament has any importance in this world. That is because of Jesus Christ.
     
    You Protestant bible-belters are the ones who gave an opening for an impossible situation; you (and several named Catholic muckety-mucks like Augustine) embued the biibble with more importance than the Yellow Pages. sheesh. you worship a book, and you insist on a linkage between Jesus and Hebrew scriptures.



    Susannah Heschel's screed, "The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany," is a major tip-off to one of the really big reasons Jews felt compelled to destroy Germany: German theologians were applying rigorous scholarship to the task of separating "Jesus" from a Hebrew/Old Testament matrix.

    Jews could not let that happen: as you suggest, Jesus is the only thing the Good Book had going for it. Jews -- like Amy-Jill Levine -- have been busy about redefining Christianity to more closely accord with Jewish needs and identity while taking every opportunity to belittle and demean Christian traditions and teaching.
    It's ok when Jews do it but when Christians, like Walter Grundmann, think, write and speak out in defense of a strictly New Testament Jesus, then all hell breaks lose. The same Jewish gallery that condemns Christian "super secessionism" similarly excoriates a separate Jesus, Jesus with the Jew carved off.
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  163. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @5371
    [In 1967 the Palestinian Population in Israel was 900,000, now in 2016 it is 5.2 million. More than 500% increase. Some genocide.]

    In 1800 there were about 1 million Jews in the world, now there are more than 15 million. More than 1400% increase. Some holocaust.

    As a percentage of the original populations, the annual (simple average) growth rates were:

    (1) Jewish since 1800 : {14m/(216*1,000000)} ~ 6.48%
    (2) Palestinian since 1967: {4.3m/(49*900,000)} ~ 9.75%

    That is more than 3.25% higher for the palestinians. So if you are somehow peddling the angle for a palestinian ‘genocide’ and deny the Holocaust, the numbers do not favor your product.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    I'm not a big fan of anyone peddling a "genocide".
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  164. iffen says:
    @German_reader
    My grandparents (only German on my maternal side btw) weren't Holocaust deniers though...my grandfather was in Ukraine and Belarus during the war and heard at least rumours about the extermination camps during the war, and never had any doubts that it all was true. There's a reason why Holocaust denial never was more than a fringe element in post-war Germany...it's just obviously nonsense.

    My grandparents (only German on my maternal side btw) weren’t Holocaust deniers

    Did not wish to imply that in any manner.

    SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII. (Needless to say, other nationalities have committed similar acts, it’s not Germans, it’s humans.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @German_reader
    "SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII."

    I don't think for most people like SC it's really about Germans (just like they don't really care about Palestinians). It's about their obsession about a supposedly all-powerful Jewish conspiracy. What better way to show the supposed malevolence and power of the Jews than to claim that the Holocaust is total invention, merely fiction created to advance Jewish interests?
    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s...I can't refute the logic of that argument.
    Now I don't think either Jewish individuals or organizations should be beyond criticism (and in the case of the heavily Jewish neoconservatives such criticism is overdue in my opinion)...but the Holocaust denialism that seems to be a leitmotiv in Linh Dinh's articles can't be helpful in that regard either...it's simply insane.
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  165. @anon
    thats a lot of gibberish to sort through so ill just adress this :


    is saying that Jews in Israel believe, and operate on the firm belief that Jews (from Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, etc.) are of the same royal blood as the Persian dynasty.
     
    persian blood is royalty ?
    by what authority ?
    i have never heard of anyone ,jew or gentile endorsing or giving deference to this claim. do you defer and prostrate yourself to persian royalty?

    58% of the jewish pop of israel are mizrahi , 5% ethiopian , 20% russian. why would you use jews with polish, lithuanian decent as an example when they are clearly a minority.

    That “most Israelis” seek to be recognized, and their linkage to various Middle Eastern royal dynasties is not a claim I made, anon, it’s a claim Yossi Alpher made. (re-Posted below, for your convenience.)

    Alpher, who was born in Washington, DC, served in IDF, spent 12 years in Mossad, and is former director of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University.

    Here are his words, from a conversation with Bruce Reidel at the Brookings Institute’s Saul/Zikha rooms in Feb. 2015:

    there’s this sense that the ancient peoples of the Middle East have created an alliance, the people who precede the Arabs, [1
    ]okay. We go back with Iran, [2]
    we just celebrated Purim, [3]
    all right, we go back 2,600 years with Iran. [4]
    The Egyptian& Ethiopian national narrative is King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. [5] So, this is almost a biblical — a new biblical chapter.

    This is how some people in Israel felt. There were also some people who were just cynical,practitioners of realpolitik. Everybody in Tehran and in Addis and in Ankara were cynical practitioners of realpolitik. They did not reciprocate. They said, we kidded ourselves that they did. And we still do to this day, because if you believe that this is — we are somehow Middle Eastern, ancient blood brothers [6]. . .

    [1] You didn’t ask about this but it’s intriguing: Alpher seeks to distance Israelis from an Arab past. Yossi Alpher is antisemitic! (Iranians/Persians are not Arab, not Semites, but Aryans, from the plateau in the Caucasus.

    [2] per Alpher, Israeli Jews trace their lineage to Iran 2600 years ago. (As mentioned elsewhere, with reference to Mary Settegast, he roots of Iranian/Persian Zoroastrian tradition date back to somewhere between 8000 BC and 6500 BC. When Hebrews encountered Persians 2600 years ago, Cyrus’s Zoroastrian tradition was already over 3000 years old.

    [3] . . .Purim . . .– commemoration of Esther usurping the place of Vashti, Queen of Persia and wife of Ahasuerus. Ahasuerus and Vashti were king and queen, i.e. royalty. Esther became Queen Esther. Royalty. Esther is buried in a royal tomb in Iran.

    [4] see [2].

    [5] King Solomon, Queen of Sheba — royalty.

    [6] We Israeli Jews are “blood brothers” with these Middle Eastern royal dynasties, and “we Israelis . . . most Israelis” need to be recognized as such.

    Yossi’s words.

    Read More
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  166. 5371 says:
    @Anonymous
    As a percentage of the original populations, the annual (simple average) growth rates were:

    (1) Jewish since 1800 : {14m/(216*1,000000)} ~ 6.48%
    (2) Palestinian since 1967: {4.3m/(49*900,000)} ~ 9.75%

    That is more than 3.25% higher for the palestinians. So if you are somehow peddling the angle for a palestinian 'genocide' and deny the Holocaust, the numbers do not favor your product.

    I’m not a big fan of anyone peddling a “genocide”.

    Read More
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  167. @Art

    Hebrew Scriptures are a johnnie-come-lately reinterpretation of myths and folk tales that swirled about the entire region for centuries, if not millennia.
     
    There is only one reason that that the Jew old testament has any importance in this world. That is because of Jesus Christ. Without the importance of Jesus to humanity, the Jews old testament would have little value to the world.

    The thrust of the old testament is mean and cruel – the story in the new testament is the opposite – it is about hope and love and forgiveness. The early Catholic church built their religion around a new image of god – a different image of god then that of the Jew’s.

    Without question the practical political temporal authority of the Pope was a negative for humanity. Martin Luther did a good thing breaking that authority. But in the process he muddied the waters between these different images of god. He needed an authority other than the Catholic Pope for his new Protestant religion. Luther made the bible (old and new) the authority of his Christian religion. This has not worked well for Christianity.

    Whenever you see a Christian preacher go wrong, he is always sighting the Jew old testament.

    p.s. Make no mistake – the Jew outlook on life is antagonistic, bloody, and pessimistic. Look at Israel.

    yoo-hoo, Art, hellooo —

    here’s the thrust of Mary Settegast’s — and my — claim:

    Zoroaster

    came

    first.

    By several thousand years.

    Evangelicals happily give Jews their head as they relegate to obscurity Zoroaster and Cyrus, the most important figure, the ‘gods-figure, end the only historically verifiable figure in the entire Old Testament.

    re:

    There is only one reason that that the Jew old testament has any importance in this world. That is because of Jesus Christ.

    You Protestant bible-belters are the ones who gave an opening for an impossible situation; you (and several named Catholic muckety-mucks like Augustine) embued the biibble with more importance than the Yellow Pages. sheesh. you worship a book, and you insist on a linkage between Jesus and Hebrew scriptures.

    Susannah Heschel’s screed, “The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany,” is a major tip-off to one of the really big reasons Jews felt compelled to destroy Germany: German theologians were applying rigorous scholarship to the task of separating “Jesus” from a Hebrew/Old Testament matrix.

    Jews could not let that happen: as you suggest, Jesus is the only thing the Good Book had going for it. Jews — like Amy-Jill Levine — have been busy about redefining Christianity to more closely accord with Jewish needs and identity while taking every opportunity to belittle and demean Christian traditions and teaching.
    It’s ok when Jews do it but when Christians, like Walter Grundmann, think, write and speak out in defense of a strictly New Testament Jesus, then all hell breaks lose. The same Jewish gallery that condemns Christian “super secessionism” similarly excoriates a separate Jesus, Jesus with the Jew carved off.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    [Evangelicals happily give Jews their head]

    The word "their" is superfluous here
    , @RobinG
    And the legend of "strictly New Testament Jesus" is an invention of Paul of Tarsus... :) (I'm pretty sure the other kids in my Sunday School class also knew they were "stories of Jesus" they were being told.)
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  168. “My wife sometimes says, “Ummm, you’re always angry. Why?”

    “It’s because of the state of the world. It’s the unconscious people of the world. I don’t understand why they don’t understand anything.”

    I’m not *always* angry, but his response pretty much encapsulates my existence. I just can’t understand the sheer ignorance of so many people, and their dogged unwillingness to do anything about it.

    People who believe the official 9/11 story really need to accept reality. I just can’t fathom how learning about Building 7 alone wasn’t enough to rattle you to the core.

    Mr. Dinh is a talented purveyor of stories from those people we’d otherwise never hear about, I always look forward to his articles.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Max Payne

    I just can’t understand the sheer ignorance of so many people, and their dogged unwillingness to do anything about it.
     
    It's just that most people have other things to do. They just don't care. Sometimes you'll find yourself a new group of people to hang out with or a new girl and before you know it you too become so removed from world politics, from world events that you stop caring yourself. (Distractions in the West are aplenty).

    People are too busy with their own lives to care about some national conspiracy or international war crimes or some proxy war supported by your tax dollars.

    Besides... unless you're gonna be building tunnels and stocking up on rockets to fight governments in a guerilla fashion what are you going to do about it? Really? You can shout and march and protest all you want but in the end it'll be for nothing... and most people in the West understand this.

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  169. @iffen
    My grandparents (only German on my maternal side btw) weren’t Holocaust deniers

    Did not wish to imply that in any manner.

    SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII. (Needless to say, other nationalities have committed similar acts, it's not Germans, it's humans.)

    “SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII.”

    I don’t think for most people like SC it’s really about Germans (just like they don’t really care about Palestinians). It’s about their obsession about a supposedly all-powerful Jewish conspiracy. What better way to show the supposed malevolence and power of the Jews than to claim that the Holocaust is total invention, merely fiction created to advance Jewish interests?
    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s…I can’t refute the logic of that argument.
    Now I don’t think either Jewish individuals or organizations should be beyond criticism (and in the case of the heavily Jewish neoconservatives such criticism is overdue in my opinion)…but the Holocaust denialism that seems to be a leitmotiv in Linh Dinh’s articles can’t be helpful in that regard either…it’s simply insane.

    Read More
    • Agree: iffen
    • Replies: @anon
    take a look at a photo of linh dinh online. he is a truly repulsive looking individual. i dont say this to insult him , itd simply a fact. he looks like a mix of brian peppers and the micky roony fake asian character in breakfast at tiffanys.

    if you looked like linh dinh you would be looking for proxies(jews) to attack and blame for your problems. of course dinh is too much of a coward to do it outright , hey he cant help it if everyone he meets hates jews. its a coincedence, hes just conducting interviews.

    now lets switch gears from dihns appearance to his subjects. the math teacher looks like the most dejected , defeated sad case i have ever seen , and check out his body language. he admits hes always angry. great life , a total loser who cant take blame for his shitty exidstance so he blames jews. surely a guy many commentaters here would relate to and even look up to.

    the other guy with the cheesey shit eating grin is just a classic attention whore. hes just thrilled someone is paying attention to him.


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i-b-KwkOQ4I
    , @utu
    What do you mean by Holocaust denial? That less than 4 millions died in Auschwitz complex of camps? Or less than 1.3 million? Or that majority of them died of diseases, malnutrition and overwork? Or that evidence for gas chambers are very slim? Or that on the territory of the III Reich there was no gas chambers? Or that significantly lower number of Jews than 6 millions died in the WW II? Or that we do not really know how extermination was carried out in Treblinka? Or that there was no Hitler order for extermination? There are many excellent questions.

    You seem to be very incurious. You do not really care, right? Is it a German trait, Germans in the grips of a Stockholm syndrome?
    , @Clyde

    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s…I can’t refute the logic of that argument.
     
    The most intelligent comment on this thread. The Unz.com cadre of StormFront rejects showed up in full force to regurgitate their Holocaust and 911 theologies for the thousandth time. I think this is the Linh Dinh thread with the most comments, so if he was fishing for feedback he got it.
    , @Art

    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s…I can’t refute the logic of that argument.
     
    So - if someone does not buy the "Six Million Lie" that means they are Nazi like killers?

    That is insulting - what a small mind - just another reason to greatly dislike the Jews.

    p.s. You Jews used The Six Million Lie to steal Palestine - Shame shame!

    p.s. The Stain of Palestine on all Jews is a greater wrong then the lost of life by the Jews in WWII.
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  170. 5371 says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    yoo-hoo, Art, hellooo ---

    here's the thrust of Mary Settegast's -- and my -- claim:

    Zoroaster

    came

    first.

    By several thousand years.

    Evangelicals happily give Jews their head as they relegate to obscurity Zoroaster and Cyrus, the most important figure, the 'gods-figure, end the only historically verifiable figure in the entire Old Testament.

    re:

    There is only one reason that that the Jew old testament has any importance in this world. That is because of Jesus Christ.
     
    You Protestant bible-belters are the ones who gave an opening for an impossible situation; you (and several named Catholic muckety-mucks like Augustine) embued the biibble with more importance than the Yellow Pages. sheesh. you worship a book, and you insist on a linkage between Jesus and Hebrew scriptures.



    Susannah Heschel's screed, "The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany," is a major tip-off to one of the really big reasons Jews felt compelled to destroy Germany: German theologians were applying rigorous scholarship to the task of separating "Jesus" from a Hebrew/Old Testament matrix.

    Jews could not let that happen: as you suggest, Jesus is the only thing the Good Book had going for it. Jews -- like Amy-Jill Levine -- have been busy about redefining Christianity to more closely accord with Jewish needs and identity while taking every opportunity to belittle and demean Christian traditions and teaching.
    It's ok when Jews do it but when Christians, like Walter Grundmann, think, write and speak out in defense of a strictly New Testament Jesus, then all hell breaks lose. The same Jewish gallery that condemns Christian "super secessionism" similarly excoriates a separate Jesus, Jesus with the Jew carved off.

    [Evangelicals happily give Jews their head]

    The word “their” is superfluous here

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  171. Max Payne says:
    @Alfred1860
    "My wife sometimes says, “Ummm, you’re always angry. Why?”

    “It’s because of the state of the world. It’s the unconscious people of the world. I don’t understand why they don’t understand anything.”


    I'm not *always* angry, but his response pretty much encapsulates my existence. I just can't understand the sheer ignorance of so many people, and their dogged unwillingness to do anything about it.

    People who believe the official 9/11 story really need to accept reality. I just can't fathom how learning about Building 7 alone wasn't enough to rattle you to the core.

    Mr. Dinh is a talented purveyor of stories from those people we'd otherwise never hear about, I always look forward to his articles.

    I just can’t understand the sheer ignorance of so many people, and their dogged unwillingness to do anything about it.

    It’s just that most people have other things to do. They just don’t care. Sometimes you’ll find yourself a new group of people to hang out with or a new girl and before you know it you too become so removed from world politics, from world events that you stop caring yourself. (Distractions in the West are aplenty).

    People are too busy with their own lives to care about some national conspiracy or international war crimes or some proxy war supported by your tax dollars.

    Besides… unless you’re gonna be building tunnels and stocking up on rockets to fight governments in a guerilla fashion what are you going to do about it? Really? You can shout and march and protest all you want but in the end it’ll be for nothing… and most people in the West understand this.

    Read More
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  172. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @German_reader
    "SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII."

    I don't think for most people like SC it's really about Germans (just like they don't really care about Palestinians). It's about their obsession about a supposedly all-powerful Jewish conspiracy. What better way to show the supposed malevolence and power of the Jews than to claim that the Holocaust is total invention, merely fiction created to advance Jewish interests?
    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s...I can't refute the logic of that argument.
    Now I don't think either Jewish individuals or organizations should be beyond criticism (and in the case of the heavily Jewish neoconservatives such criticism is overdue in my opinion)...but the Holocaust denialism that seems to be a leitmotiv in Linh Dinh's articles can't be helpful in that regard either...it's simply insane.

    take a look at a photo of linh dinh online. he is a truly repulsive looking individual. i dont say this to insult him , itd simply a fact. he looks like a mix of brian peppers and the micky roony fake asian character in breakfast at tiffanys.

    if you looked like linh dinh you would be looking for proxies(jews) to attack and blame for your problems. of course dinh is too much of a coward to do it outright , hey he cant help it if everyone he meets hates jews. its a coincedence, hes just conducting interviews.

    now lets switch gears from dihns appearance to his subjects. the math teacher looks like the most dejected , defeated sad case i have ever seen , and check out his body language. he admits hes always angry. great life , a total loser who cant take blame for his shitty exidstance so he blames jews. surely a guy many commentaters here would relate to and even look up to.

    the other guy with the cheesey shit eating grin is just a classic attention whore. hes just thrilled someone is paying attention to him.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i-b-KwkOQ4I

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  173. RobinG says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    yoo-hoo, Art, hellooo ---

    here's the thrust of Mary Settegast's -- and my -- claim:

    Zoroaster

    came

    first.

    By several thousand years.

    Evangelicals happily give Jews their head as they relegate to obscurity Zoroaster and Cyrus, the most important figure, the 'gods-figure, end the only historically verifiable figure in the entire Old Testament.

    re:

    There is only one reason that that the Jew old testament has any importance in this world. That is because of Jesus Christ.
     
    You Protestant bible-belters are the ones who gave an opening for an impossible situation; you (and several named Catholic muckety-mucks like Augustine) embued the biibble with more importance than the Yellow Pages. sheesh. you worship a book, and you insist on a linkage between Jesus and Hebrew scriptures.



    Susannah Heschel's screed, "The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany," is a major tip-off to one of the really big reasons Jews felt compelled to destroy Germany: German theologians were applying rigorous scholarship to the task of separating "Jesus" from a Hebrew/Old Testament matrix.

    Jews could not let that happen: as you suggest, Jesus is the only thing the Good Book had going for it. Jews -- like Amy-Jill Levine -- have been busy about redefining Christianity to more closely accord with Jewish needs and identity while taking every opportunity to belittle and demean Christian traditions and teaching.
    It's ok when Jews do it but when Christians, like Walter Grundmann, think, write and speak out in defense of a strictly New Testament Jesus, then all hell breaks lose. The same Jewish gallery that condemns Christian "super secessionism" similarly excoriates a separate Jesus, Jesus with the Jew carved off.

    And the legend of “strictly New Testament Jesus” is an invention of Paul of Tarsus… :) (I’m pretty sure the other kids in my Sunday School class also knew they were “stories of Jesus” they were being told.)

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    I never went to Sunday school.

    Isn't that where kids make Mother's Day cards with elbow macaroni and popsicle sticks?
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  174. utu says:
    @German_reader
    "SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII."

    I don't think for most people like SC it's really about Germans (just like they don't really care about Palestinians). It's about their obsession about a supposedly all-powerful Jewish conspiracy. What better way to show the supposed malevolence and power of the Jews than to claim that the Holocaust is total invention, merely fiction created to advance Jewish interests?
    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s...I can't refute the logic of that argument.
    Now I don't think either Jewish individuals or organizations should be beyond criticism (and in the case of the heavily Jewish neoconservatives such criticism is overdue in my opinion)...but the Holocaust denialism that seems to be a leitmotiv in Linh Dinh's articles can't be helpful in that regard either...it's simply insane.

    What do you mean by Holocaust denial? That less than 4 millions died in Auschwitz complex of camps? Or less than 1.3 million? Or that majority of them died of diseases, malnutrition and overwork? Or that evidence for gas chambers are very slim? Or that on the territory of the III Reich there was no gas chambers? Or that significantly lower number of Jews than 6 millions died in the WW II? Or that we do not really know how extermination was carried out in Treblinka? Or that there was no Hitler order for extermination? There are many excellent questions.

    You seem to be very incurious. You do not really care, right? Is it a German trait, Germans in the grips of a Stockholm syndrome?

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    The 4 million deaths number for Auschwitz (originally based on Soviet propaganda if I'm not mistaken) has long been disproven, no serious historian today claims that...current estimates (which are unlikely to change) are about 1,1 million people were killed at Auschwitz, the majority of them Jews.
    It's true that there were no mass gassings of Jews on pre-war German territory (at least I don't know of them; gassing was used though in the killings of the disabled which preceded the Holocaust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4#Gassing ), but what's your point?
    As for the rest of your "excellent questions", not even worth bothering with.
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  175. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @anon

    Then I discovered that Isreal is the only country in the World that is allowed by the United States to hold dual citizenship.
     
    BS
    Wrong Wrong Wrong
    Try google before you make an anus of yourself.
    USA allows dual citizenship from any country , not just Israel .

    From the USA State Department :
    The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a national of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own nationality laws based on its own policy. Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. national parents may be both a U.S. national and a national of the country of birth.

    A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality.

    Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

    However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. nationality. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose nationality.

    Does providing this information make me a Troll now ?????????????

    Tsk, tsk, Such rage. Such outrage culture nonsense. The only anus in this equation is you.

    Yeah, I misread a key decision that the Supreme Court made in 1967 when it decided that an Isreali dual national had not forfeited his US citizenship by voting in an Isreali election, a criterion that, up until then, had been the way things were done (an example of which was the stripping of US citizenship from a Mexican dual national).

    The real problem is members of government with dual national status. That’s why Ted Cruz and Michelle Bachman renounced their dual nationality recently. But that just doesn’t happen with the many many Isreali dual nationals in US government. The Hill has this to say about that:

    Yet dual citizenship in the United States poses a hitherto unappreciated issue for policy-level members of the legislative, executive and judicial branches. The divided national loyalties of dual citizens can create real or apparent conflicts of interest when such legislators, judges or senior officials make or speak out on policies that relate to their second country.

    The potential damage to our democracy is the greater when such potential conflicts of interest are concealed in undisclosed dual citizenship.

    Current entries on the Internet contain a number of undocumented assertions as to which members of Congress and senior officers are dual citizens. Without reliable data, however, Americans can only speculate on which senators and representatives may have divided national loyalties.

    The lack of transparency regarding citizenship erodes trust in government, raising credibility doubts where there should be none, and allowing some apparent conflicts of interest to continue undetected.

    When a senator, representative or senior U.S. official speaks out, submits bills or determines policy on an issue of importance to a foreign country of which that member or official (or judge) has the tie of citizenship, their constituents and the U.S. public at large should at least be able to assess whether such views or actions are influenced by the divided loyalty.

    Since they don’t involve national loyalty, religion and ethnicity seldom raise conflict issues. Moreover, they are generally matters of public record.

    By contrast, dual citizenship creates conflict of interest through divided loyalties. Thus it would seem reasonable to require that dual citizen members of Congress, the judiciary and the executive be required to renounce citizenship in another country as a condition of public service.

    Again, all dual nationals regarding Isreal who are in US government should renounce Isreali citizenship or be impeached and removed from office.

    My points still stand, Cool your fucking jets.

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  176. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @woodNfish
    Most people who pay attention to the news know what LSM and "gruber" are. A gruber is someone who is okay with being lied to. Other than explaining it to you, I really don't care what you think of it.

    I pay attention to the news, I’m sure more than you ever dreamed of paying attention, woodNhead.

    Jargon is for lame-ass losers who can’t just speak plainly. A gruber is some workd you made up based on some story about some guy. I don’t give a shit where you decided to make up the word or who the guy even is. It doesn’t matter at all. It’s a jargon word. Jargon is for losers because it does not communicate anything other than you are part of an “in” crowd and everyone else is….. a gruber.

    You can’t explain anyting to me, when you use jargon words. Your use of jargon words explains everything to me. You are unable to express yourself, so you fall back onto jargon words.

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    • Replies: @woodNfish
    Your lack of comprehension isn't my problem. Get over yourself.
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  177. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @annamaria
    There is only one problem: Some are Fifth Column (filth column). See the leading ziocons. This is not about Jewish people. This is about supremacists of "chosen" persuasion. The true face of modern Israel is Avigdor Lieberman, a Moldovan felon and minister of defense. http://rense.com/general95/avig.html
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.722376

    Agreed and that was my point: No dual-national should be allowed to serve in any position anywhere in the US governement ever. If you want to hang out and sell car insurance in Rochester, and go back to the old country and vote for Prime Minister, feel free to.

    If you want to run for dog catcher in the United States, renounce your dual citizenship.

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  178. Linh Dinh says: • Website

    the Holocaust denialism that seems to be a leitmotiv in Linh Dinh’s articles can’t be helpful in that regard either…it’s simply insane.

    I have 211 articles archived at Unz, and in only four of them are the word “Holocaust” even mentioned.

    1) In “American Crisis”, a 2014 piece about Thomas Paine, I mention in passing a Jacques Lipchitz sculpture at the Thomas Paine Plaza in Philadelphia, “Composed of torturous human forms holding up some insufferable burden, it’s titled ‘Government of the People,’ though walking by it for decades, I actually thought it was a Holocaust memorial. ”

    2) In “Flagless Germany” (2015), I cite “Holocaust” just once, “Free speech in Germany is limited, and one must not, above all, publicly criticize Israel or Jews, or raise questions about the Holocaust.”

    3) In “A View From Iceland,” I only mention the Holocaust when describing Bobby Fischer, “He called the US a ‘brutal, evil dictatorship’ controlled by Jews, whom he characterized endlessly as criminals, parasites, liars and thieves. The Holocaust is ‘a money-making invention.’”

    4) In the current “Obscured American: Rudy List the Retired Math Professor,” Mr. List talks about the Holocaust at length because he sees it as the linchpin of Jewish power.

    I may bring up the Holocaust more in the future, but I have scarcely mentioned it after more than 400,000 word in 211 articles.

    Though Holocaust denial is clearly not a leitmotiv in my writing, the Holocaust itself must be ever present in German Reader’s mind. Otherwise, why would he see it everywhere?

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    • Replies: @German_reader
    Well, there also was that American living in England...who turned up in the comments' section and let slip that he thought David Irving and Ernst Zundel were "convincing":
    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/an-american-in-brighton/
    I really don't care that much and I won't be looking through all of your articles...but you do seem to know some pretty strange people, and I don't see anything indicating that you think they might be somewhat misguided or foolish in this matter.
    But hey, if Ron Unz wants to publish your stuff, I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you.
    , @Anonymous
    Mr. Dinh,

    Sir, am a great fan of yours.

    This is off-thread (my apologies).

    I recall you giving out your Facebook details recently.

    But I can't seem to locate which article you've posted 'em.
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  179. @Linh Dinh

    the Holocaust denialism that seems to be a leitmotiv in Linh Dinh’s articles can’t be helpful in that regard either…it’s simply insane.
     
    I have 211 articles archived at Unz, and in only four of them are the word "Holocaust" even mentioned.

    1) In "American Crisis", a 2014 piece about Thomas Paine, I mention in passing a Jacques Lipchitz sculpture at the Thomas Paine Plaza in Philadelphia, "Composed of torturous human forms holding up some insufferable burden, it’s titled 'Government of the People,' though walking by it for decades, I actually thought it was a Holocaust memorial. "

    2) In "Flagless Germany" (2015), I cite "Holocaust" just once, "Free speech in Germany is limited, and one must not, above all, publicly criticize Israel or Jews, or raise questions about the Holocaust."

    3) In "A View From Iceland," I only mention the Holocaust when describing Bobby Fischer, "He called the US a 'brutal, evil dictatorship' controlled by Jews, whom he characterized endlessly as criminals, parasites, liars and thieves. The Holocaust is 'a money-making invention.'"

    4) In the current "Obscured American: Rudy List the Retired Math Professor," Mr. List talks about the Holocaust at length because he sees it as the linchpin of Jewish power.

    I may bring up the Holocaust more in the future, but I have scarcely mentioned it after more than 400,000 word in 211 articles.

    Though Holocaust denial is clearly not a leitmotiv in my writing, the Holocaust itself must be ever present in German Reader's mind. Otherwise, why would he see it everywhere?

    Well, there also was that American living in England…who turned up in the comments’ section and let slip that he thought David Irving and Ernst Zundel were “convincing”:

    http://www.unz.com/ldinh/an-american-in-brighton/

    I really don’t care that much and I won’t be looking through all of your articles…but you do seem to know some pretty strange people, and I don’t see anything indicating that you think they might be somewhat misguided or foolish in this matter.
    But hey, if Ron Unz wants to publish your stuff, I’m not going to waste my time arguing with you.

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    ain't that just like a German to want to censor speech.

    Still got that Nazi-gotta-burn-books-I-don't - agree-with going on.

    German underscore reader is a closet Nazi.
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  180. Clyde says:
    @German_reader
    "SC apparently thinks Germans are some sort of virtuous beings that were framed for the atrocities committed by them and in their name in WWII."

    I don't think for most people like SC it's really about Germans (just like they don't really care about Palestinians). It's about their obsession about a supposedly all-powerful Jewish conspiracy. What better way to show the supposed malevolence and power of the Jews than to claim that the Holocaust is total invention, merely fiction created to advance Jewish interests?
    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s...I can't refute the logic of that argument.
    Now I don't think either Jewish individuals or organizations should be beyond criticism (and in the case of the heavily Jewish neoconservatives such criticism is overdue in my opinion)...but the Holocaust denialism that seems to be a leitmotiv in Linh Dinh's articles can't be helpful in that regard either...it's simply insane.

    Some guy from some Jewish organization once said Holocaust deniers are the kind of people who would have supported or perpetrated the Holocaust back in the 1940s…I can’t refute the logic of that argument.

    The most intelligent comment on this thread. The Unz.com cadre of StormFront rejects showed up in full force to regurgitate their Holocaust and 911 theologies for the thousandth time. I think this is the Linh Dinh thread with the most comments, so if he was fishing for feedback he got it.

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    • Replies: @dninmore
    "Science" is not "theology", as "so-called Jews" are not "the Chosen". No gas chambers, no 6 million.
    , @Anonymous
    Umm...yes, you can refute it because it is not true, considering the character and calibre of many of the people who are questioning it. I don't know the truth but forensic investigation of a major concentration camp in 1990 reduced the death total of that camp by 75%. What is an intelligent supposed to think? The truth liea in the middle.
    What kind is "German reader" referring to? He often mentions "conspiracy theories" as if that phrase should dismiss them because they are obviously nonsense because they don' t fit the narrative.So I tend to dismiss him. Brilliant way to shut up potential questions though.
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  181. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Why waste everyone's time replying to something you haven't bothered to inform yourself about?

    You apparently want others to look again at the evidence and overthrow the NIST report but you don't even take the elementary trouble to learn of Dr Frank Greening's explanation of his modeling which showed the time the two main towers took to collapse fitted exactly with what you would expect from the number of floors above the levels at which the planes hit because of the weight of what was above the points of impact and consequent critical weaknesses.

    BTW weren't you impressed by the Comment which gave some detail of the enormously elaborate preparation required to set up a controlled demolition? Have you any expertise at all relating to demolitions?

    Why waste everyone’s time replying to something you haven’t informed yourself about?

    1,000s of archtects, engineers, physicists and demo experts have said in the most certain terms that the smoking gun of the WTC is the symetry of the collapses: This cannot happen from random fires.

    Have you looked at Architects & Engineers for 9-11 Truth?

    If not, why not. Have you viewed the hours of testimony and explanation on the video Explosive Evidence (or something close to that: do a search on youtube, you’ll find it).

    No theory can be valid that does not account for the symetrical removal of underlying mass in the structures. No one has come up with an explanation, least of all NIST, which admitted finally that doesn’t have any idea how WTC7 fell.

    Furthermore, any theory of how things were rigged has no relevance to the collapse. Just because some guy doesn’t think it would have been possible to rig charges all over the place has no relevance to the inescapable fact that the structures fell symetrically.

    How it was done would be the subject of an investigation, after it has been acknowledged what every architect and engineer (and physicists) knows: skyscrapers of any kind cannot and do not fall symetrically after less than 90 minutes from light damage to a few floors high up in their structure, or, in one case, no damage at all (WTC7).

    I don’t have to be a demolitions expert to use my reason on my knowledge of physics and engineering. I can just turn to the many demo experts who have concluded the same thing.

    Your reasoning is fallacious, filled with logical fallacies. You believe theories that do not correcpond to the laws of gravity, Newtonian physics.

    You should ask yourself why you fight so hard to resist science and engineering precepts that allow humankind to build high rises all over the world, and why 9-11 didn’t stop new skyscrapers from being designed and built, because if architects and engineers believed the half-baked cockamamie “theories” of NiST and whatever other quack you want to quote, then all building would have immediately stopped and there would have been worldwide conferences of all relevant disciplines to determine what if any design changes would have to be implemented in order to account for the new information that random fired a 100 stories could cause high rised to fall symetrically into their own footprint in less than 90 minutes.

    No such conferences ever occurred. No buildings were stopped in the middle of their construction. 100s of new skyscrapers were designed and build. The people that build these things, that design them, and that test them, have voted their opinion of NIST nonsense.

    It’s not possible what you suggest. Stop suggesting it. Educate yourself.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    This is your thng not mine. I couldn't care less what the truth may be about 9/11 but it interests me when people - you ckearly being one - have their minds so made up that they don't even bother to read what they purport to contradict. I have said that Dr. Frank Greenfield claimed to have modeled the collapses and found his theory consistent with them. Obviously that encompasses the symmetry as that is the way the towers fell.

    If it bothers you at least learn find out what is being said rather than fall back on preconceptions about symmetry. Then consider this layman's simple example: build a lattIce work metal frame then crush it under a weight far greater than it was designed to support. How do you think itwill collapse?

    Effectively the falling structure from and above the weakened or exploded area would have been such a weight would it not?

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  182. restless94110 [AKA "Stephen Douglas"] says:
    @NoseytheDuke
    The Wiz is intoxicated by his belief in his own self importance. It is both comical and sad to witness such delusions so proudly on display.

    Yeah,

    There is a rabid army of non-believers in science and in logic that have infested US thought on this matter. I have seen plenty of it.

    A lot of them skip to the who or the how and proclaim that unless the who and the how is explained to them then the what (that buildings cannot fall like that from random fires) is not true.

    But that’s not logical. That’s not how you do things.

    For example: a man is discovered murdered in his own apartment and the doors and windows are locked. The murder weapon, a gun, is not found. The detectives don’t go—well, it is impossible for someone to have gotten into the apartment, so he could not have been murdered. They may never figure out how the guy was murdered, but they know he was murdered.

    It’s really as simple as that. Investigations are not done backwards like they were by NIST. You start at the beginning, then you go to the how, then you go to the why, not the other way around.

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  183. @utu
    What do you mean by Holocaust denial? That less than 4 millions died in Auschwitz complex of camps? Or less than 1.3 million? Or that majority of them died of diseases, malnutrition and overwork? Or that evidence for gas chambers are very slim? Or that on the territory of the III Reich there was no gas chambers? Or that significantly lower number of Jews than 6 millions died in the WW II? Or that we do not really know how extermination was carried out in Treblinka? Or that there was no Hitler order for extermination? There are many excellent questions.

    You seem to be very incurious. You do not really care, right? Is it a German trait, Germans in the grips of a Stockholm syndrome?

    The 4 million deaths number for Auschwitz (originally based on Soviet propaganda if I’m not mistaken) has long been disproven, no serious historian today claims that…current estimates (which are unlikely to change) are about 1,1 million people were killed at Auschwitz, the majority of them Jews.
    It’s true that there were no mass gassings of Jews on pre-war German territory (at least I don’t know of them; gassing was used though in the killings of the disabled which preceded the Holocaust: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4#Gassing ), but what’s your point?
    As for the rest of your “excellent questions”, not even worth bothering