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Kushner’s Debacle: “Deal” Fizzles, Conference Implodes
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Deal of the Century is a 1983 Hollywood comedy about crooked arms dealers conspiring to peddle new weapons that “allow for localized and conventional wars that will keep (the global arms industry’s) business viable into the next century.” Thirty-five years later, a non-fictional crooked businessman, Jared Kushner, has borrowed the title for his so-called Middle East peace plan. Is this some kind of sick joke? A bad Hollywood remake? Have Kushner and his accomplices Jason Greenblatt and David Friedman chosen this title for their so-called peace plan as a snarky acknowledgment that its real purpose is to keep the Zionist war on the Muslim East viable into the next century?

Kushner’s alleged peace plan was obviously set up to fail. It does not offer the bare minimum acceptable to Palestinians: A genuinely sovereign Palestine including all territories stolen by Israel in 1967, with its capital al-Quds, alongside an Israeli acknowledgment of the internationally-recognized Palestinian right of return and a plan—however gradual—for its implementation. Anything less is a non-starter.

Kushner’s plan does not just offer a little less than the above, nor even a lot less. It is a joke. According to Arab officials briefed on the plan, the Zionists would keep and expand their settlements on territories stolen in 1967. They would take all of al-Quds, leaving a few Palestinian neighborhoods on the outskirts. There would be no sovereign Palestinian state. Instead, the Palestinians would be herded into a slightly-expanded Gaza open-air concentration camp including a small portion of the adjacent Egyptian desert that would remain under Egyptian, not Palestinian, control. The resulting constellation of Bantustans would be labeled “New Palestine,” and its residents would have no sovereignty. Instead, they would actually pay their Israeli prison wardens for “protection.”

The “deal” amounts to the liquidation of Palestine and the completed genocide of the Palestinian people. Clearly Kushner’s radical Zionist advisors, Jason Greenblatt and David Friedman, know that their plan is not only unviable, but an insult to every Palestinian. The only thing it offers is money—as if the Palestinians, who have fought and sacrificed bravely for their cause for more than a century (losing tens of thousands of martyrs in the process) are willing to prostitute themselves in return for something even worse than humiliating surrender.

Clearly this grossly insulting proposal was designed to be rejected. Perhaps its real purpose is to unleash a new round of war justified by the public relations slogan: “We offered the Palestinians a very good deal, so good we called it ‘the deal of the century,’ but those ungrateful Palestinians wouldn’t accept it.” This is precisely what the Zionists have done in the past, notably after the 2000 Camp David Summit, during which they intentionally presented non-viable proposals in order to obtain a Palestinian rejection that would provide PR cover to go ahead with their 9/11 false flag, ruthlessly attempt to crush the Palestinian resistance, and trick the USA into invading and destabilizing regional nations that the Zionists consider enemies. All of this was in line with the Zionist strategy laid out in the 1996 Netanyahu-commissioned Clean Break document authored by neocons led by 9/11 suspect Richard Perle—roughly the same group that authored the September 2000 blueprint for 9/11 “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” that openly called for the coming “New Pearl Harbor.”

Since the Kushner-Greenblatt-Friedman “peace plan” is really a war plan, any geopolitical analysis of its ramifications must examine the conflict(s) that will accelerate once the plan is officially rolled out and rejected. Those conflicts will presumably be continuations of the ongoing, long-standing conflicts in the region.

Short- and Medium-Term Impact

First, the Israeli government, dominated by ever-more-extreme right-wing hardliners, will intensify its program of settlement building and ethnic cleansing. The Palestinians will be left with no choice but to continue their resistance, through peaceful demonstrations and rallies, the global BDS movement, and greater or lesser degrees of military resistance depending on their capabilities and strategic opportunities. The good news for Palestinians is that the shockingly insulting nature of Kushner’s Deal offers an opportunity to unify their ranks, ending or moderating the schism between the Palestinian Authority and the genuine resistance organizations including Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Ramzi Baroud suggests that newfound Palestinian unity around the rejection of Kushner’s “deal” could lead to a reconciliation between Hamas and non-corrupt elements of Fatah, followed by the resurrection of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Baroud writes that “the steps taken by Washington to isolate the PA through denying Palestinians urgently needed funds, revoking the PLO’s diplomatic status in Washington and shunning the PA as a political ally provide the opportunity to open the necessary political dialogue that could finally accomplish a serious Fatah-Hamas reconciliation. Israel, too, by withholding tax money collected on behalf of the PA, has lost its last pressure card against Mahmoud Abbas and his government in Ramallah. At this point, there is little else that the US and Israel could do to exert more pressure on the Palestinians.”

The US-Zionist loss of leverage offers the Palestinians real opportunities. The late Alan Hart, a former BBC Mideast correspondent and back-channel peace negotiator, argued for several years before his death in January 2018 that the Palestinians’ best strategy would be “dissolving the impotent and corrupt PA and handing back to Israel full and complete responsibility and accountability for occupation.” Such a move, Hart wrote, “would not only impose significant financial, security and other burdens on Israel, it would enable global discussion and debate about the conflict to be focused without distraction on the occupation and the need for it…to be ended.” This is essentially what Baroud is advocating in his recommendation that a unified PLO be revived. And now that the US is no longer bribing the PA to do Israel’s dirty work, such a scenario seems eminently feasible.

If the PA were dissolved, and Palestinians were to form a united Resistance front, the resulting stand-off would cry out for arbitration—but not by the usual (American) suspects. All past “peace processes” have been abysmal failures for one overriding reason: Zionists dominate US media, finance, and politics, so the US cannot be a reasonably neutral arbiter. Instead, it acts as an appendage of Zionism. Effective arbiters and negotiations-facilitators would have to represent entities that accept the broad international consensus as reflected in 70 years of UN resolutions. The United Nations General Assembly itself, or possibly a coalition of relatively independent nations, could be far more effective peace brokers than the Americans have ever been.

Along with unifying the Palestinians, Kushner’s “Fiasco of the Century” might also have the beneficial effect of unifying the relatively reasonable forces in the region in opposition to the plan, and in support of a newly united PLO presiding over the dissolution of the PA and demanding that the Zionists fulfill their obligations under international law. A broad coalition of nations in the Muslim East, led by the Axis of Resistance consisting of Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Yemen, but also extending to such non-Axis members as Turkey, Qatar, and indeed any other regional nation that can afford to forego Saudi bribes, will line up against Kushner’s ludicrous Deal. In the end, the Saudis and their evil twins the Emiratis will be left holding their bag of bribes that nobody wants.

The failure of the Deal could accelerate a regional realignment that has been developing during the draw-down of the war on Syria. Turkey and Qatar, both of which had originally been enthusiastic participants in the war on Syria, have been forced to re-think their priorities and strategies due to the triumph of the Syrian anti-regime-change struggle. Both nations will undoubtedly join the Axis of Resistance in heaping scorn on the Deal and supporting the Palestinian rejection of it.

In the long term, Kushner’s debacle will likely have the opposite of its intended effect: Instead of sealing the doom of the Palestinians, it will rally and unify the Palestinians and their supporters. The stillborn Deal will go down in history as a major strategic blunder. It may one day be viewed as a major milestone in the long road toward the liberation of Palestine.

Bahrain Conference Fiasco

On June 25 and 26, the corrupt tyrants of the House of Khalifa and their Saudi masters hosted a meeting of criminal oligarchs and their henchmen from four continents. The agenda: Kosher Nostra princeling Jared Kushner’s doomed attempt to bribe Palestinians into complicity in their own genocide.

Kushner’s idea, in a nutshell, was to strong-arm the Anglo-Zionist Empire’s Gulf puppet states into offering Palestine $50 billion in return for unconditional surrender. The vile terms of that abject surrender would come down like a hammer later, after the Palestinian mouse had nibbled the cheese.

But the mouse didn’t bite. Nor did anyone else. The whole affair turned into an unmitigated fiasco, a train wreck that informed observers had seen coming a mile away.

The conference’s Orwellian title: “Peace to Prosperity.” But instead of proposing a viable peace plan as a road to prosperity, as the name suggests, the conference was just the latest in a series of Zionist-sponsored Western undertakings that sought to put the cart before the proverbial horse, by waving around fistfuls of other people’s mythical money as a first step, in the hopes that “peace”—for Palestinians, the peace of the grave—would magically follow. That oft-failed approached could be summarized as: “Let’s throw money at the Palestinians in hopes that they’ll go away.”

Kushner and his Zionist colleagues tried to spin the conference as a breakthrough in Arab acquiescence to the Israeli expansionist agenda. But the reality was precisely the opposite. The only Arab nations that even showed up were those under de facto Anglo-Zionist occupation (namely Jordan, Morocco, Egypt, and the Gulf puppet monarchies). And even those quisling governments pointedly refused to send anyone important. Instead, they were “represented” by obscure low-level ministers.

The Europeans, for their part, could not even be bothered to send junior ministers. Most deployed mid-level civil servants, while the French absent-mindedly sent someone over from their Bahrain embassy. (Maybe it was the janitor?) As Daniel Levy writes in The American Prospect: “In the absence of serious people, that paragon of global transparent governance, FIFA President Gianni Infantino, was left to play a starring role.”

It wasn’t just the serious people who failed to show up; it was also the serious money. Kushner’s mythical $50 billion aid package for Palestine remained entirely mythical, as the Gulf states conspicuously failed to offer pledges, much less pony up any actual cash.

But the biggest lacuna was not the absence of cash and important figures; it was the absence of the people the conference was supposedly about, namely the Palestinians. All Palestinian factions united to boycott Kushner’s charade, forcing the Americans to disinvite the Israelis in order to maintain the pretense that the whole production was something other than an Israeli-orchestrated public relations spectacle.

That spectacle predictably fell flat on its face. So why would Israel bother orchestrating such a monumental flop? Did they really believe they could engineer a split between Palestinians and their leadership? Did they imagine that ordinary Palestinians would drool at the prospect of Kushner’s phantasmagorical $50 billion, then rise up and force their leaders to surrender to the Zionists? Don’t the Israelis realize that the Palestinian people are generally far more committed to their cause than most of their leadership is? Are the Israeli PR experts really that incompetent? “The trouble with us Israelis is that we’ve become the victims of our own propaganda,” Major General Shlomo Gazit once told BBC correspondent Alan Hart. Gazit’s point, put bluntly, is that Israelis are so in love with themselves, and so unable to see anyone else’s point of view, that they cannot tell the difference between propaganda lies and reality—an ethical and strategic failing that will eventually prove their undoing.

The Zionists hoped the Manama conference would succeed in dividing-and-conquering their opposition. Such has been the Israeli approach at least since Oden Yinon laid it out in his infamous article “A Strategy for Israel in the 1980s.” Specifically, they hoped to divide the Palestinian people from each other, and from their leadership. And they wanted to divide Arabs from Arabs, and especially Arabs from Iranians. (It is no accident that the Bahrain conference aimed at establishing closer ties between Arab despots and the Zionist entity at the precise moment that the US was escalating tensions with Iran almost to the breaking point.)

But the Conference at Four Seasons Manama backfired, unifying both the Palestinians and most other relevant parties in opposition to Kushner’s farce. The whole Palestinian leadership, including all significant factions (and even insignificant ones), boycotted the conference and held it in open contempt. In this they had the near-unanimous support of the Palestinian people. The only Palestinians who came to Manama were a couple of small-time wannabe businessmen on the make, angling for a few shekels and representing nobody but their own pathetic pocketbooks. They were reviled as traitors upon returning to Palestine.

“Kushner’s Folly” was also boycotted by most members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC). The most significant OIC countries including Turkey, Pakistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, and of course Islamic Iran all refused to dignify the Manama proceedings with their presence.

Set Up to Fail?

Did the hardline Zionists who orchestrated the Manama charade through their puppet Kushner really expect anything to come of it? They cannot have been so naïve as to expect it to draw significant Palestinian participation. So it must have been set up to fail. To what end?

First, the conference was obviously designed to draw quisling Arab elites deeper into the Zionist-sponsored fake peace process, in order to further align those elites against the Palestinians and their supporters, the most important of which is Islamic Iran. But those Arab puppet governments, beginning with the Gulf sheikhdoms, can only go so far, because their people sympathize with the Palestinians. Any attempt at full normalization with Israel would likely lead to popular unrest and internally-driven regime change. So the Manama conference made, at most, an incremental contribution to the stealth realignment of Arab elites with their erstwhile Zionist enemies.

Secondly, the conference was designed to sell the usual fake news story of “Palestinian rejectionism.” The Zionists have used this method countless times over the decades: Make an absurd “offer” that no Palestinian could possibly accept, and then use the Zionist-dominated Western media to pump out the message: “The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.” The reality—that the Palestinians have succeeded, bravely and brilliantly, in “missing” repeated opportunities to help genocide themselves—is obvious to everyone who hasn’t been hypnotized by the Zionist propaganda apparatus.

The Manama conference not only failed to achieve its ostensible, official objective, it also failed to achieve the abovementioned real ones. Far from helping treasonous Arab billionaires realign with Israel, it actually made said realignment more difficult. The psychotically Islamophobic Trump Administration, represented by Kosher Nostra princeling and First Son-in-Law Jared Kushner, is not exactly popular among the Arab masses, especially after the US endorsement of the Zionist theft of Jerusalem al Quds. The implosion of the “Kushner peace plan” is hardly a PR plus for pro-Zionist Arab traitors.

As for the narrative of Palestinian rejectionism, that was a hard sell even in the late 1990s, when the Zionists used their honey trap agent Monica Lewinsky to prevent Bill Clinton from forcing Israel to agree to terms the Palestinians could accept. Even back then, when Zionist domination of mainstream media meant total control of the official narrative, nobody with two synapses firing bought the nonsensical Zionist propaganda line that the failure of Oslo was somehow the fault of the Palestinians.

Today, the media landscape has changed. The mainstream media no longer commands widespread confidence, and the truth about the crimes of Zionism is getting harder and harder to hide. A substantial and growing number of Westerners, including increasing numbers of American Jews, recognizes that extremist Likudnik Zionism has dragged Israel and the world to the brink of catastrophe. For these and other reasons, the fallout from the disastrous Manama conference, rather than putting the world to sleep, will only assist in its awakening.

Portions of this article are being published in Quarterly of the Islamic Consultative Assembly and Crescent International

 
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  1. “Everything Jared touches turns to gold.”

    So his FIL told us.

    More like shite.

  2. Nice maps. But hey–that’s what happens when you start and then lose war after war. You lose territory after territory. Dumbass crybaby Mohammedans have yet to figure this out. Let those so-called Palestinians move to Iran if they don’t like their situation.

  3. chris says:

    Mayb it’s not a coincidence that this “stillborn” trap should be announced around the anniversary of the Versailles Treaty.

  4. Lot says:

    Regarding your jihadi-approved map series…

  5. @Lot

    Uh….Syria was wrecked by ISIS and ISIS was funded by Mossad and the CIA.
    The destruction of Syria was not the fault of Assad.

    So there you go.

    Israel is intent on wrecking the entire ME, as well as all of Christendom.

    People understand what is happening.

    Nice graphics though.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  6. Milton says:

    The Zionists who currently rule Israel are synonymous with the “Synagogue of Satan.” They do not enjoy God’s protection or blessing, because they disobey His Law and Covenant. They are not entitled to the Promised Land, because they do not believe in the Promisor. They are the heirs of the proto-Zionists Simon bar Giora, John of Giscala and Eleazar ben Simon, and will bring the modern state of Israel to ruin just as their forefathers brought the Second Temple to ruin. They are the wicked Israelites whom Elijah contended with on Mt. Carmel, the wicked Israelites who derided, tortured and killed the Old Testament Prophets, the wicked Israelites from whom the Antichrist will be born, and the wicked Israelites whom God is recorded in the Sacred Scripture laughing at from his Throne in Heaven. They are currently on top of the world, but Pride goeth before the Fall and they are being primed to fall very far indeed. God isn’t mocked forever and their sins cry to heaven for vengeance.

  7. JNDillard says:

    Can anyone tell me why Palestine is yet to go to the UN Security Council and demand a vote on its status as a State? Knowing that will fail, why does it not then go to the General Assembly and demand a vote, where it would surely pass? Where is the resistance within the Palestinian community coming from for this obvious and effective step forward toward international recognition of its rights, something the US, Israel, and the EU are obviously blocking?

    • Replies: @Miggle
    , @renfro
    , @Curmudgeon
  8. It reads as well reasoned. But….. what’s the evidence for Monica Lewinsky being part of a Zionist honey trap? On his record weren’t his foolish blow jobs followed by perjury because of entanglemement in the Paula Jones case readily accomplished by him alone?

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  9. Alfred says:
    @Charles_Martel

    start and then lose war after war

    Which war did the Palestinians or their neighbours start?

    And when is the last time the Israelis won a war? 1967?

  10. Jared Kushner hosted this bizarre meeting in Bahrain’s capital Manama. This gathering consisted of corrupt tyrants of the House of Khalifa, its murderous Saudi masters, and foreign henchmen such as the war criminal Tony Blair. This conference aimed at bribing the Palestinians into total surrender. No Palestinian showed up because everybody knew that it was a Zionist plan hammered out by Benjamin Netanyahu, Jason Greenblatt, and the infamous US ambassador David Friedman. This Manama charade was set up by the Zionist to fail. As long as President Trump is in office, no Palestinian should speak, not to negotiate with any of his representatives. To start new fruitless negotiations, Palestinians should instead talk to the real master in Jerusalem directly.

  11. As for the narrative of Palestinian rejectionism, that was a hard sell even in the late 1990s, when the Zionists used their honey trap agent Monica Lewinsky to prevent Bill Clinton from forcing Israel to agree to terms the Palestinians could accept.

    This is a fascinating theory but is there anything to it besides the fact that Lewinsky was Jewish?

    After all, Jews often marry into prominent gentile families (Chelsea Clinton, Lauren Bush, Ivanka Trump all married Jewish men; and these Christian girls had Jewish weddings). But why aren’t these marriages merely examples of assortative mating patterns and/or Jewish power climbing?

    • Agree: Ilyana_Rozumova
  12. @Charles_Martel

    In 1947, Chapter 1, Article 1 paragraph 2 of the UN Charter,

    To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

    Palestine was 70% Palestinian then. The State of Israel is against the spirit and the letter of international law as it stood at its independence.

  13. The Zionist Askenazi (1880-1917-1947-)

    The Zionist Azkenazi (60-70% European and 30-40% Turkish-Syrian-Persian) … arrived in “the Land of Canaan” … and unleashed chaos and terror …

    and they (the Zionist Askenazi) did what the Romans did not: expel the arabhebrew “people of the land” (“am ha’erezt”) of “the Land of Canaan” … and they brought people of Arab culture and rabbinic tradition (mizrahim)

    Here are four very different stories:

    (A) the history of the Arabhebrew people of “the land of Canaan” in the Bronze Age
    (B) the history of an Aramaic ruling class in the Persian Empire
    (C) the history of a Religion widespread in the ancient world, which expanded as fire by gunpowder among women
    (D) the history of Askenazi Terror (1930/1947-) … an identitarian State whrere there are a “people (of lords)” (“HerrensVolk”) and a population that live without civil rights and under military domination

  14. @Lot

    The Ziobots are really out in force tonight!

  15. A123 says:

    Here is an actual map of Palestine:

    — 3/4 of the land went to Muslim Palestine
    — 1/4 of the land went to Jewish Palestine

    _____

    The author uses a fake and 100% debunked map from MSNBC:

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2015/10/msnbc-middle-east-expert-martin-fletcher-uses-anti-israel-propaganda-map/

    Remember, the Koran requires Muslims to lie. The practice is known as Taqiyya (1). The Islamic principal of Jihad requires Muslims to steal land from Infidels. Like any petty crook, they then have to use Taqiyya lies to cover up the theft.

    The fake MSNBC map is *intentionally* designed to make peace impossible. It is an instrument of Jihadi conquest. Violent Islamic Jihadi groups like Fatah and al’Hamas claiming to speak for Muslims living Judea and Samaria are trying to kill this peace effort.

    Fatah and al’Hamas are unpopular with people who are trying to make a living under their extremist rule. The one thing that could jump start the peace effort is giving INDIVIDUALS and FAMILIES, the ability to ‘Vote with Their Feet’ by returning to their historical homeland, thus escaping the violent rule of al’Hamas and Fatah.

    PEACE

    _______

    (1) https://barenakedislam.com/2009/04/09/muslim-lies-learn-how-to-recognize-taqiyya-islamic-art-of-deception/

  16. @Lot

    You have the before picture of Gaza,…

    Here’s the after

    Explain what your definition of ‘bordered by‘ is exactly.

  17. @Charles_Martel

    You may deserve some money as a holocaust survivor.

    For you info ass-O-le ,
    let USA give arms and money to the Palestinians like they do to illegal-israel and then we can see who is going to figure out, what.

  18. It’s probably a good idea to have the money in hand if you intend to purchase land. And i also think it’s a good idea to have prepped the meeting with decision makers, their prominance is of no value if the proposal is untenable. Nobel laureates were awarded the last peace proposal.

    The financials are important in my view and should be considered. I say that because the international community has no interest in protecting what remains of Palestine. And that has always been essential. It is no coincidence that the map, if accurate reflects the withdrawal of international enforcement of agreements. And that is unfortunate.

    And if I were the Palestinians, I would look to that fact in making any assessment. The foreign community makes a lot of hay about Israeli violations, but they are very short in insuring that said agreements are maintained.

    ____________________________

    “Regarding your jihadi-approved map series…”

    I am unsure what this means. While I support Israel right to exist, I am suspect that she is surrounded by hostile states minus provocation. And that is where I have to consider your map suspect. Israel has instigated so much hostility — and no small amount deliberately. And that matters. In her establishment she made assurances that she would not engage in Zionist ambitions but has repeatedly done just the opposite.

    I am going to eschew the “God” said so assail. Because will do what he says he will do. For people of faith it’s always the question whether it’s God or me. It’s easy to assume that successful endeavours are of God or that success is achieved as god intended.

    I suspect that should 300 million people descend on Israel she would be over run. The reality is that she is not being threatened by 300 million people. It’s not that complicated or all engrossing. The matter is rather simple — if there is evidence that Israel has violated agreements or codices regarding Palestine, they should be redressed. The fact that Israel has antagonized her neighbors is not cause for land graft.

    ———————————————

    I appreciate the faith and practice of christians, but what constitutes christian ethos is the New Testament. The old testament has incredible value and force, but that value and force as with all things biblical has very particular contexts. And not a single Apostle, not Christ, not a single christian even is noted to have made a case for christians to support Israel no matter what she does in the secular sense. Provision for christ’s sake. And clearly the US has done so. But then we are not talking about Israelies who support murdering children in the womb, homosexual relations, or any number of very specific scriptural violations. In fact those jews who have a strict adherence to scripture are largely shunned in Israel.

    I guess it comes down to a matter if faith as opposed to will.

    ———————————–

    Still Palestine should consider seriously her options and to that I think the article makes a fine point she must be unified in purpose and plan.

  19. GazaLibre says:

    I can’t wait to see his deal for Americans living under zionist occupation in the US. Let me guess: in exchange for the right to work in an Amazon warehouse for $6 an hour we must agree to have all white people liquidated and Christianity declared a crime punishable by imprisonment in the local Jewish-run gulag. Except of course for girls under fourteen, who get a temporary reprieve in order to serve the racially superior Jew. Oh, thank you Jared!

  20. “The trouble with us Israelis is that we’ve become the victims of our own propaganda,” Major General Shlomo Gazit once told BBC correspondent Alan Hart. Gazit’s point, put bluntly, is that Israelis are so in love with themselves, and so unable to see anyone else’s point of view, that they cannot tell the difference between propaganda lies and reality—an ethical and strategic failing that will eventually prove their undoing.

    Count on it. Their undoing is beginning and I’m already enjoying the completion of it.

  21. Miggle says:
    @JNDillard

    Ali Abunimah of Electronic Intifada and Israel Shamir despite their falling out indicating that Abunimah may be a phony are nevertheless (if I remember correctly) unanimous that the only possible solution is a one-state solution with equal rights for all. So, how is a UNSC vote on a second state going to help? All the European talk about a two-state solution means freedom next time. No, next time.

    The Palestinians are their own worst enemies. Islam cannot tolerate separation of Church and State, or freedom of religion, because it must be the hegemon. It defends freedom of worship which is something different from freedom of religion.

    If Hamas were to give up on past Utopianism, demand one state, immediate but total annexation, equal citizenship and equal rights for all, in a state named Israel but with the Knesset having the right to change the name, not troubling for now over refugee return but with the Knesset able to legislate on that, the problem would disappear. But because Islam is its own worst enemy that won’t happen for a little while.

    Again, let the top priority of Hamas be one state with equal rights for all, admit that that is the only real essential thing.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  22. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    Why are you lying about how Occupied Palestine really turned out in 1948? European invaders were given 55% of Palestine and the indigenous Palestinians remanded to 45%.

    Even that wasn’t enough for the greedy invaders, who now have stolen around 80% of Palestine and control the rest.

    Kushner-Greenblatt-Friedman, the three ‘Americans’ who put together the STEAL of the Century.

    A steal if your a Khazar invader.

    Kushner, a failed NYC/Baltimore slumlord, thought he could use the same sleazy tactics he uses in his tenements, but it failed big time.
    So instead of Daddy-in-law explaining what failed, Tubby the Grifter has slapped on his Klan hood and went night hunting for Americans who were uppity enough to use their right to Free Speech.
    Something that Trump doesn’t understand, since he was a DRAFT DODGER when his nation called.

  23. @A123

    And what about? ref. Wikipedia.

    Article 25 of the Mandate for Palestine allowed for the exclusion of Transjordan from unspecified provisions of the Mandate. On 16 September 1922, Lord Balfour, representing the United Kingdom, reminded the Council of the League of Nations of Article 25 of the Mandate for Palestine (which had been previously approved but had not yet come into effect). He then told the council that the British government now proposed to carry out this article, as had always been intended by the League of Nations and the British government. He then presented a memorandum for approval.

    The border between the territory of Transjordan and Mandatory Palestine was defined for the first time in the memorandum, as follows: all territory lying to the east of a line drawn from a point two miles west of the town of Akaba on the Gulf of that name up the centre of the Wady Araba, Dead Sea and River Jordan to its junction with the River Yarmuk: thence up the centre of that river to the Syrian frontier.

    In September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations recognised Transjordan as a state under the terms of the Transjordan memorandum. Transjordan remained a British mandate until 1946, but it had been granted a greater level of autonomy than the region west of the Jordan River.

    From that point onwards, Britain administered the part west of the Jordan River as Palestine, and the part east of the Jordan River as Transjordan.

    So what you have labelled in your map as Arab Palestine was never that; it was recognised only as Transjordan and it became the Kingdom of Jordan. It looks like you are being dishonest and not Kevin Barrett.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  24. @Commentator Mike

    And for those who claim that Wikipedia lies in favour of the Jews, how come in this case it has not revised history to bolster the Zionist case? But when it comes to the Holocaust and WWII some of you wiki doubters claim it is all Jewish lies and cannot be relied on to give the facts as they are.

  25. Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto , a Palestinian holocaust!

    Not a voice of protest is raised against this crime against the have murdered Palestinian men , women and children as the Israeli murderers stole Palestinians homeland\

    Israel is doing to Palestinians what the nazis did to the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto, committing a holocaust against the Palestinians and stealing the Palestinians home land in a crime of world proportions as the Israelis shoot men, women and children and Palestine disappears.

  26. Rags says:
    @Lot

    No one on your kosher approved map is a serious enemy of Jewish occupied Palestine except Iran.

  27. anon[260] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles_Martel

    > that’s what happens when you start and then lose war after war

    So the Holocaust was fair to the losers of this war? Thanks for clearing that up.

    • Replies: @Al Liguori
  28. @Wizard of Oz

    As I recall, Clinton’s biggest Zionist financial backer sent Lewinsky to the White House, where she became a “modern Esther”: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/latter-day-esther-a-boon-to-jewish-right-1.128348 All informed observers agree that she wrecked Clinton’s chances to force Israel to make peace.

    • Replies: @Greg Bacon
  29. @A123

    As Nicolas just said, the Zionists are really out in force on this one.

    • Replies: @A123
  30. Trump appointed his Orthodox Jewish son in law Jared Kushner as the head peace negotiator. The Orthodox oppose Zionism and always have. They refuse to fight in the IDF. Moreover, as an Orthodox Jew, Kushner philosophically opposes the creation of Israel to begin with. Why hasn’t the MSM/DoS/CIA even passingly mentioned this obvious fact in their domestic propaganda operations?

    • Replies: @Antares
  31. Barrett’s piece really seems to have triggered the Zionists.

    They’re dragging out every discredited old lie they can think of. I take it they have no response to anything that’s actually in the article.

  32. nsa says:

    Commenters here might reconsider what they wish for. If the jew were evicted from the Levant, where do you think he would go? You got it….to the New Jerusalem across the pond and we would have 5 million more of the conniving assholes over here fleecing the peasantry at their crappy businesses and grifting the system to the max. You want that? Better to emulate the Russians and figure out how to export the jew to the Levant where they can stay busy cheating each other and jousting endlessly with the muzzie hordes, who may not be very smart but make up for it in numbers.

  33. Greg Bacon says: • Website
    @Kevin Barrett

    All informed observers agree that she wrecked Clinton’s chances to force Israel to make peace.

    Yes, but she had help, in the very willing and way too randy Clinton, who never learned to keep his zipper shut.

    But Monica had help. The Mossad keep a psychological profile of all Western politicians, so they know where their weak spot is to take advantage.
    Just the sort of thing an ally does to its friend?

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
    , @Malla
  34. @Greg Bacon

    Mossad sexual blackmail is of course back in the news thanks to Clinton/Trump’s child-pimp pal Jeffrey Epstein.

  35. anonymous[252] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles_Martel

    “Let those so-called Palestinians move to Iran if they don’t like their situation.”

    Exactly. Muslims took over the vast majority of Christian/Jewish Middle East over the centuries. Massacred and enslaved millions, confiscated their property, forced conversions. I have no sympathy for asshole Muslim Palestinians in their “claims”. Let Muslims give back the land they stole from Christians and Jews and then we’ll talk. Let’s start with the atrocities of the millions of Armenians and Greeks who were exterminated in Turkey. Nothing good comes from the presence of Muslims in Christian countries as we’ve seen in countless examples whether it’s the civil war in Lebanon or what’s happening in Europe and the US.

  36. Malla says:
    @Greg Bacon

    The Mossad keep a psychological profile of all Western politicians, so they know where their weak spot is to take advantage.
    Just the sort of thing an ally does to its friend?

    They have been doing this for centuries.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  37. @Malla

    Not only that, but Israel and traitors in the zio/US did 911 and the USS Liberty, see the book Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen, can be had on amazon, about the joint zio/US and Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.

    • Replies: @Malla
  38. This strikes me as at least as relevant as most of the Zionists’ posts — and it has the virtue of not consisting of gross falsehoods.

    ‘Twelve Israelis, some under 18, were arrested in Cyprus on suspicion that they raped a 19-year-old British tourist at a hotel in the resort town Ayia Napa, local media outlets reported Wednesday…’

    ‘Israelis,’ of course, always means ‘Israeli Jews.’

  39. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:

    Please watch the following interview done by Judy Woodruff with a zionist jewish mafia, as Trump’s ‘advisor’, Jason Greenblatt, a pathological liar.

    You realize soon that how criminal and savage these thieves are. Judy woodruff even does not dare to challenge Greenblatt’s lies.

    What is the purpose of this show except entertainment?

    THEY CANNOT FOOL ANYONE except themselves. Throw the fifth column family, trump regime, in the garbage bin now. Trump regime is dominated and CONTROLLED by the criminal Jewish mafia.
    Only uncivilized people do not see that they are ruled by a fifth column regime.,

    https://www.pbs.org/video/deal-of-the-century-1563402318/

    • Replies: @Steve Naidamast
  40. Antares says:
    @δημοσιογράφος

    Trump appointed his Orthodox Jewish son in law Jared Kushner as the head peace negotiator. The Orthodox oppose Zionism and always have. They refuse to fight in the IDF. Moreover, as an Orthodox Jew, Kushner philosophically opposes the creation of Israel to begin with. Why hasn’t the MSM/DoS/CIA even passingly mentioned this obvious fact in their domestic propaganda operations?

    Jared Kushner is on board with an organisation that has donated money to an illegal settlement on the West Bank: https://www.timesofisrael.com/jared-kushners-parents-donated-to-settlement-groups/

  41. kikz says:

    the entirety is most probably cover for tribal biz dealings., aka Night Manager’s Dickey Roper’s ‘humanitarian aid’ presser scam.

  42. A123 says:
    @Colin Wright

    Telling the truth to counter neo-Nazi Islamofacists and their Taqiyya lies.

  43. schrub says:

    So many Zionists are now showing up on UNZ that I would like to make a request.

    Do you think I could have the sole concession on this site to supply mail order matzo ball soup, chopped liver and pastrami to these people.

    If they continue to multiply in the numbers that they recently have been, it might quickly make this venture financially feasible.

    I can also supply bargain priced mail order circumcision kits that make use of commonly owned Swiss army knives, scissors and sheetrock blades. No cost ice cubes for use as an anesthetic are just a step away in your freezer. (Dry ice is, of course, a slightly more deluxe but somewhat controversial option) No more being ripped off by overpriced, possibly herpes infected mohels! No more expensive bris where all your reputed third cousins mysteriously make an appearance accompanied by their over-sized doggy bags!

    Mail orders to Israel will of course cost a bit more and will require air freight for food items.

  44. @GazaLibre

    Why not? americans are already under occupation.
    The Jeffery Epstein sordid saga is the the last chance your nation has to get your country back. I spent endless hours watching youtube channels that make the same claims.
    Do your spring cleaning now or forget about being a leading first world country. Seriously!!!

  45. Trump Puts The Interests Of Israel Ahead Of The Interests Of The United States Of America.

    Trump And The Israel First Treasonites Would Say That There Is No Daylight Between The Interests Of The USA And The Interests Of Israel.

    There Is Massive DAYLIGHT Between The Interests Of Israel And The Interests Of The United States Of America!

    Israel is a client state millstone of the American Empire.

    The US military must no longer be used as muscle to fight wars on behalf of Israel.

    AMERICA FIRST! DAMMIT!

  46. @nsa

    Yes that would be a problem. But not just the US, they’d be going back to Europe and Russia too.

    Didn’t I read somewhere that Putin was trying to attract Jews from western Europe who felt threatened by rising anti-semitism due to increasing Islamisation and growing populism? He’s definitely called on many oligarchs who escaped with loot from Russia to return with their stolen finances, and you know who most of such oligarchs are.

    • Replies: @Malla
  47. @Alfred

    No, 1973. Just 36 years ago.

    • Replies: @Poco
  48. @nsa

    I haven’t seen anyone saying that the Israelis should be kicked out of Palestine. What most here (except the ziotard trolls) say is that US money and military forces should be wiithdrawn, allowing Israel to handle their own affairs.

    if Israel were to be cut off from US military and monetary aid, there would soon be no Israel problem in the ME. No Israel = No Israel problem.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @RadicalCenter
  49. @Twodees Partain

    Israel is the largest WELFARE recipient of the zio/US per the labor of the American taxpayer!

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  50. @Lot

    I don’t think you are aware of the heavily non-Arab genetics of most people in those supposed “Arab lands” in North Africa.

    If you mean to call them Muslim lands, that would be more accurate.

    • Agree: Talha
  51. renfro says:
    @Lot

    Oh whine whine whine…the Arabs have more then we Jews do!…Not fair!…the world should give us more countries!….because…..well because…..We are Jews!…you owe us!..the world owes us!..whine whine.

    Sorry chum…you Jews are a grain of sand in the Christian and Muslim world

    As of 2017, there are about 1.8 billion Muslims in the world, according to the Pew Research Center; Islam is growing more rapidly than any other religion in the world, according to a new report by the Pew Research Center that says the religion will nearly equal Christianity by 2050

  52. @Twodees Partain

    Israel would have to negotiate if the US minded its business and stopped attacking, sanctioning, and threatening israel’s Neighbors and enemies.

    There’s a deal to be had.

    Some coastal land for Israel, some for the new sovereign Palestine.

    All muslims leave Israel and can’t get citizenship there; the same would be true for Jews in Palestine.

    Some rights for each people/country to explore for, drill for, refine, and use or export nearby oil and natural gas.

    Split Jerusalem between the two countries or have it internationally administered with largely autonomous areas for Muslims, Christians, and Jews.

    There we go.

  53. @Milton

    They do not enjoy God’s protection or blessing, because they disobey His Law and Covenant.

    As a Christian I appreciate your position, but appealing to historical touchstones is likely doomed to failure.

    1) Most people don’t believe the Bible, so its use as a source is contaminated.
    2) “Today’s Jews are really 14th-century Khazars” etc., is hopelessly arcane.
    3) People aren’t pissed about lineage, or some series of affronts in 1325.

    I suggest we renounce Israel and the diaspora Jews because of what they’re doing today, July 18, 2019. God knows there’s still more than enough psychopathic villainy to keep us occupied.

  54. @nsa

    ‘Commenters here might reconsider what they wish for. If the jew were evicted from the Levant, where do you think he would go? You got it….to the New Jerusalem across the pond and we would have 5 million more of the conniving assholes over here fleecing the peasantry at their crappy businesses and grifting the system to the max…’

    …and, given our complicity in the creation, continued existence, and crimes of Israel, we would deserve it.

    Where do you think the Zionists should come, if not here? They can’t stay where they are. The Palestinians never did anything to deserve such a blight.

    We take in the Jews infesting Palestine. That’s what we can do to atone for our crimes.

    Happily, all that has to happen is that we (a) pull the plug, and (b) let planes from Ben Gurion land here for a few years. It’ll be easy — and the right thing to do. How often can you say that?

  55. renfro says:
    @JNDillard

    Can anyone tell me why Palestine is yet to go to the UN Security Council and demand a vote on its status as a State?

    Palestine began applying for Statehood in 2012. It failed due to the US vetoing it in the UNSC voting, 14 UN Security council members voted for it but US voted against it.
    Palestine was though given non member “observer statehood status” at that time.
    Palestine has in fact re applied every year for statehood….the US vetoes it every time.

    Some of the latest actions:

    176 Nations at UN General Assembly call for Palestinian statehood
    https://www.jpost.com/Arab…/176-nations-at-UN-call-for-Palestinian-statehood-5185…
    Dec 20, 2017 – 176 nations at UN call for Palestinian statehood. The United States, Canada and Israel were among the seven that opposed the text; four states …

    U.N. allows Palestinians to act more like full member in 2019 – Reuters
    https://www.reuters.com/…palestinians-un/un-allows-palestinians-to-act-more-like-full…
    Oct 16, 2018
    – The 193-member United Nations General Assembly on Tuesday allowed the Palestinians to act more like a full U.N. member state during …

    Also worth noting Palestine has been calling for International Peace Keeping forces between Palestine and Israel for decades BUT the US votes that down also.
    You can imagine why Israel doesnt want peace keeping forces to witness their crimes and land thefts in Palestine.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @JNDillard
  56. @RadicalCenter

    Some coastal land for Israel, some for the new sovereign Palestine.

    A two state solution is dead, the Israeli settlements make this impossible.
    A two state solution would only lead to war, Palestine would try to arm to defend themselves from jewish aggression obviously. Granted someone would sell them arms, Iran would probably do that.

    But how about a one state solution, with the right to return of the Palestinians?
    You know, cultural enrichment, plural society and all that nice stuff they tell us 24/7.

    A one state solution is obviously impossible too, because Israel defines itself as “the jewish state”, something they deny all European counties by now.

    So, I am for a multicultural Palestine, which has Jews and Muslims, and Christians, maybe some Africans from Somalia, Nigeria and Kongo too, Afghans, Pakistanis whatever is necessary to enrich these Jews culturally.

    The Jews in Israel haven’t yet learned how to be multicultural, we have to fix this. They need to appreciate the enrichment.

    • Replies: @A123
  57. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Hmmm, I suspect you might actually like Jews after all, Colin 🙂

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  58. Trump Puts The Interests Of Israel Ahead Of The Interests Of The United States Of America.

    To Trump’s credit he hasn’t yet dropped a nuclear bomb on Iran or started a war with Iran. Shelly Adelson wanted the US embassy moved to Jerusalem and the Iran nuclear deal killed and a war with Iran and a nuclear bomb dropped on Iran. Shelly Adelson said let’s drop a nuke on Iran as a demonstration of resolve or strength or determination or some other damn thing.

    Trump has only whored himself out to Shelly Adelson for the embassy move and the killing of the Iran nuclear deal.

    The American Empire and Israel and all the antics attached to that relationship puts me in a cynical mood.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  59. @RadicalCenter

    ‘There’s a deal to be had.

    Some coastal land for Israel, some for the new sovereign Palestine.’

    That was one of the deals — of several that went by, as time passed.

    You’ve just described the 1947 U.N. Partition Resolution — which Israel accepted.

    The difficulty is that — as with every agreement Israel has accepted from the 1922 League of Nations mandate for Palestine on — Israel never keeps her word.

    There’s no point in ‘making a deal.’ Israel will just violate it. You decide what conditions to impose — and then blockade Israel until she honors those conditions. Then — and only then — you turn the lights back on.

    • Agree: anarchyst
  60. Iris says:

    “A conference set up to fail?”

    The Israelis are neither that smart, nor in control anymore.

    The reasons why they set the failed Manama conference are probably closer to fear and desperation.

    In his recent interview to Al Manar channel, Hezbollah’s lead Hassan Nasrallah, who is neither imprudent nor a braggart, has stated that his resistance movement possesses enough missiles to strike any target on Israeli territory, down to Eilat, and that all of Northern Israel where most of the population lives, is within reach of Lebanese weapons. He said Hezbollah can strike all the government buildings, military installations, airports, economic centres and commercial centres…

    Hassan Nasrallah: “We Have Enough Missiles to Send Israel Back to the Stone Age; Iran Would Be the First to Attack Israel If War Breaks Out “

    https://english.almanar.com.lb/781783

    https://www.memri.org/tv/hizbullah-sec-gen-nasrallah-missiles-israel-stone-age-north-coast-key-installations-iran-war-region/transcript

    Israeli military might is a myth that the Arab public does not believe anymore:

    https://youtu.be/a2TsyH4fFQc

    • Replies: @Malla
  61. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    You know, Colin, instead of going to so much trouble to bring so many Jews to you, you can just convert to Judaism.

    We’d welcome you, Colin 🙂

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  62. Judaism was a religion widely spread in the ancient world, spread like fire by gunpowder among women, and continued to expand until the early middle ages

    Different issue is the terror unleashed by the Zionists in “the Land of Canaan” where “the people of the land” have lived for more than two thousand years

  63. Malla says:
    @Colin Wright

    How about Africa (outside South Africa)? Imagine the benefits the highly intelligent Jews could bring to that continent. There are no evil Whitey goyims in most parts of the continent. Thus no evul nazis gonna spray da swastika on their synagogues late at night. Jews have always promoted black music and black culture on whitey’s face, now they are in an ocean of talent. Imagine the number of basketball teams to be owned and shekels made. Looks like a win win.

    • Replies: @Anon
  64. Malla says:
    @DESERT FOX

    Thanks bud, I will see it. Though I already know about the USS Liberty incident.

  65. @Colin Wright

    “…and, given our complicity in the creation, continued existence, and crimes of Israel, we would deserve it.”

    LOL – Clearly your meds are out of balance. I’m not sure there’s even a clinical designation for myopic jew haters who’s FS to the JQ is to bring them closer to themselves and everyone else he’s decided is guilty of… what exactly? I’m guessing a lot of self-medicating goes on in the back of your windowless van.

    There is no “we” in what you feel is deserved. If YOU have a guilty conscience, then that is your problem, and the left’s strategy of fostering white guilt upon normal Americans has been a complete success in your case.

    Instead of more Jews coming here, I suggest Jews go to Somalia with you and Ilhan Omar.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  66. Anon[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Don’t give them any ideas.

  67. @AaronB

    ‘You know, Colin, instead of going to so much trouble to bring so many Jews to you, you can just convert to Judaism.

    We’d welcome you, Colin ‘

    I might well fit right in — but that’s not the point.

    The point is that the Jews who have invaded Palestine have to be allowed to settle somewhere — and who would be more deserving than ourselves?

    Me converting, not converting, or taking up Scientology has nothing to do with the question at all.

  68. Talha says:

    Kings…taking it to the limit…

    That’s why we remember you around the world…patience, brothers, patience and prayer.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @neutral
  69. @Poco

    That’s right, 46 years ago. Since then IDF “heroically” lost to Hezbollah and withdrew from South Lebanon, leaving its Lebanese allies to their fate, and even more “heroically” murdered quite a few unarmed civilians in Gaza.

  70. @Alfred

    yeah right….. won the war in part by slaughtering US servicemen on the USS Liberty… no the real war the won was complete control of the US government through blackmail and filthly lucre.. witness LBJ’s ordering rescue plans from US aircraft carrier to stand down and Admiral McCain’s crushing of the investigation. I pray the Epstein pedophilia scandal brings down the whole Mossad infiltration of our government, including most likely the orange one.

  71. @A123

    right and the Talmud requires the goyim to be killed like dogs, but not to worry. all is forgiven on Purim.

  72. A123 says:
    @Germanicus

    You fail to mention the One State Solution that has a substantial chance of success.

    A confederation between:
    — Historic Muslim Palestine (a.k.a. TransJordan or Jordan), and
    — New Muslim Palestine (a.k.a. Area “A” and Gaza inside Jewish Palestine).
    Building cooperation between two Muslim populations would be straight forward as they already have common culture and language. No multicultural enrichment is required except for cooperation between Muslim Bedouin and Muslim Arab populations.

    All Muslims in Judea and Samaria would be citizens of New Muslim Palestine. All Jews would be citizens of Israel. Members of other faiths (Christians, Druze, etc.) would be able to pick one or the other. So, there would be some multiculturalism for Israel, but for the most part Jews already have stable relationships with these religions.

    PEACE

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Germanicus
  73. @JNDillard

    The bigger question is why is Israel still a member of the UN, as it has failed to live up to its commitments that allowed its entry.

    https://www.wrmea.org/011-july/third-time-s-a-charm-israel-admitted-as-u.n.-member-in-1949.html

    • Replies: @JNDillard
  74. @A123

    ‘You fail to mention the One State Solution that has a substantial chance of success.

    A confederation between…’

    You’re easier to take when you snarl rather than attempt to deceive.

    • Replies: @A123
  75. @A123

    You fail to realize, you can only keep what you can defend.
    That is the sad state of affairs, and atm, the Jews have the bigger gun than the Palestinians.
    Sadly, you can only make Jews listen and have a somewhat rational talk with them, if your gun is bigger than theirs.

    • Replies: @frankie p
  76. Malla says:
    @Iris

    Hassan Nasrallah: “We Have Enough Missiles to Send Israel Back to the Stone Age; Iran Would Be the First to Attack Israel If War Breaks Out “

    Actually Brendan O Connel had a video on Iran which has been scrubbed off youtube. He was there, he says the Iranians are really not scared of Israel. Besides the Iranian elites have deep links to Zio bankers in Europe. According to him, Iran is to Israel what the Soviet Union was to the USA, a false opposition. A scary opposition (Death to Israel) actor nation, justifying Israel’s need for aid and American support. Makes Israel look like a poor victim against the crazy mullahs.

  77. Z-man says:

    Forget about ‘Kush the Kike’ the real danger here is Plump’eo, a rabid Christian Zionist and Bolton, a Zionist boot licker and chicken hawk. They have to be removed. Unfortunately the heretic Christian Zionist movement is very powerful here and Trump caters to it.

  78. Malla says:
    @Commentator Mike

    One of those oligarchs, I cannot recall his name but I know his face, ran away to Ukraine after a short stay in Israel. He said his reason for leaving was, there are too many Jews. Something alluding to, “it is hard to leech in a glass full of leeches”. Ukrainian Goyim are better hosts.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  79. anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:

    [[Kushner’s idea, in a nutshell, was to strong-arm the Anglo-Zionist Empire’s Gulf puppet states into offering Palestine $50 billion in return for unconditional surrender.]]

    This is not correct. The money that Trump regime and his Jewish family Kushner are offering to buy Palestinians and erect Oded Yinon “greater Israel’, is not coming from the Jewish mafia thieves assets, USA or Israel. 99% of it going to be forced on ARAB PEOPLE, their colonies.

    The jewish mafia thieves, although have accumulated vast amount of wealth through Organ trafficking, human trafficking, sex trafficking, drug trafficking, diamond trafficking, oil trafficking, Opium trafficking and…. are NOT paying a penny for their crimes against humanity, but they are expecting to loot the region. They take this wish into their graves, one by one.

    [The mytical $50 billions is going to be extorted from the Arab assets, not a penny by the zionist baby killers where is going to buy not only Palestinians, but number of Arab countries including Lebanon, Jordan and colony Egypt. The zionist criminal corrupt thieves are not going to pay a penny, rather to make billions of dollars, including the fifth column Trump family.

    It would offer Lebanon $6 billion to upgrade the country’s dilapidated transportation infrastructure and link it to other countries, and another $325 million for regional trade integration and to support small- and medium-size enterprises.
    Almost three-quarters of that sum – $4.625 billion – would be in the form of loans. Another $1.25 billion would come from the private sector, leaving $450 million in grants.
    The $6 billion for transportation is divided simply: $3 billion for roads, $2 billion for rail and $1 billion for airports, seaports and border crossings.]

    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2019/Jun-25/486024-not-selling-out-lebanon-rejects-billions-in-kushner-plan.ashx

    Lebanon’s Parliament speaker, Nabih Berri, said Sunday that the proposal’s author, White House senior adviser Jared Kushner, was “mistaken if he thinks waving billions of dollars can tempt Lebanon – struggling under a [difficult] economic crisis – to comply or trade in its” principles.
    In Lebanon, Nabih Berri’s remarks: The plan “aims to replace the legitimate … rights of the Palestinian people in return for financial and economic projects, as if the rights of return, an independent Palestinian state, freedom and a life of dignity can be replaced by a few donations.”
    The economic portion of the plan, which was released over the weekend, offers over $50 billion to jump-start the economies of Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and “Gaza and the West Bank.” The documents do not mention “Palestine.”

    The Kushner program has another wrinkle: It places all $6 billion for Lebanese transit in Phase III, the last three years of the 10-year plan.

    The document warned that the deal poses a threat not just to Palestine but also to Lebanon and other Arab countries. “Manipulating the maps of these countries and permanently resettling 5.2 million Palestinian refugees … outside their country of origin … would represent a new fragmentation of the Arab region,” the parties said.

    Expose the Jewish mafia ‘greater Israel’ plan to be funded by the Arab assets, NOT A PENNY FROM THE CRIMINAL ZIONIST COLONIST THIEVES including the fifth column Trump family and his corrupt regime.

    Throw the zionist Trump family out of the office soon.

  80. “The people of the Land” (“am ha’eretz”)

    “The people of the Land” (“am ha’eretz”) of “the Land of Canaan” throughout its history has had different religious expressions

    the Zionist would like “the land of Canaan” not to exist or be an island off the coast of Norway

    But

    “Moses” Father-in-Law was an Arab priest (Exodus 3,1) and Yahvé -“Yahvé of Teman”- was an Arabhebrew deity (Cfr. Book of Judges 5,4) and Kuntillet Ajrud

    we must bear in mind that the Judaism of “the people of the land” was not Rabbinical Judaism (200-) but surely it was very similar to primitive Islam, so that it was very easy for them this variant of what after all in his root it was the same religion of those lands

  81. @Charles_Martel

    Likewise, let those so-called Israelis move to Fort Lauderdale if they don’t like their situation.

  82. @Malla

    You mean by any chance Ihor Kolomoyskyi? Who runs private mercenaries in Ukraine, drafted from the IDF, who do false flags as “nazis” so the jewish press has something to complain about?

    • Replies: @Malla
  83. Sean says:

    Clearly this grossly insulting proposal was designed to be rejected. Perhaps its real purpose is to unleash a new round of war justified by the public relations slogan: “We offered the Palestinians a very good deal, so good we called it ‘the deal of the century,’ but those ungrateful Palestinians wouldn’t accept it.” This is precisely what the Zionists have done in the past, notably after the 2000 Camp David Summit,

    The Palestinians turned up for that and it was not a take it or leave it thing but genuine negotiations with movement from the opening bargaining position. While the final position of Barak was undoubtedly bad from the Palestinian point of view, it indisputably was a serious advance on anything that Israel had proposed before, or since.

    2000 Camp David Summit, during which they intentionally presented non-viable proposals in order to obtain a Palestinian rejection

    A lot of experienced diplomats said those 2000 negotiations had been immediately doomed by Barak having had made a beginner’s error at Camp David because he made big concessions in his opening position and instead of the Palestinians reciprocating, they became extremely encouraged having interpreted Barak’s bold logjam-clearing initiative as evidence Israeli negotiators were caving in and total success for the Palestinians was on the cards if they kept up the pressure.

    Moreover, Barak became disillusioned when Palestinians tried to use the final position Israeli offer they rejected at the 2000 Camp David talks as a bedrock starting point for making fresh demands as they did in the Taba negotiation of 2001, The perception created by these negotiation being contemporaneous with the Second Intifada wave of suicide bombing attacks was esculating terrorism what was making Israel give more and more. That doomed Barak’s government, and Israel decided they needed to try another way Hence the wall. In June 2002, Yasser Arafat said in an Haaretz interview that he was willing to accept the positions Israel had taken in the Taba for a final status settlement. It has become obvious that no Israel PM is going to offer what was put on the table what was offered in 2000.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Replies: @AaronB
  84. neutral says:
    @Talha

    Not peace and not patience, get WMDs and start launching them on Israel endlessly. Target their nuclear reactor, their Knesset, their schools, their wailing wall. Once this foul entity is wiped out, other foul regimes such as the Saudis and Egyptian junta will also fall.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Colin Wright
  85. Agent76 says:

    Great topic often overlooked.

    The New American Century Part 1/10

    This film goes in detail through the untold history of The Project for the New American Century with tons of archival footage and connects it right into the present.

    “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”

    A Summary Blueprint of the PNAC Plan for U.S. Global Hegemony

    Some people have compared it to Hitler’s publication of Mein Kampf, which was ignored until after the war was over.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3249.htm

  86. @Charles Pewitt

    The only reason Trump has not bombed Iran for his zionist overlords is that Russia would come in on the side of Iran and so would China and then the war would go nuclear and although the zionists believe they can survive a nuclear war in their DUMBs aka deep underground military bases that they have throughout the zio/US and zio/Europe and Israel, when the war ends there wouldn’t be anything left to fight over.

    However the zionists are at some point going to try it and take the world with them, research King Torah and the Samson Option, the zionists are demonic !

  87. Malla says:
    @Germanicus

    No, now I remember, it is Sergei Mogilevich but thanks for the new info on chosenite oligarchs, will check this Ihor Kolomoyskyi guy out. And sorry, it is Hungary not Ukraine, where he ran away too. I confused him with a Semion Mogilevich.

    From
    http://geopolitics-behind-the-mask.36089.n8.nabble.com/The-Judeo-Russian-Mafia-td151.html

    Basing his first operations in Israel, where he fleeced Jewish refugees from Russia, Mogilevich acquired Hungarian citizenship after making the comment that the biggest problem with Israel is that there are “too many Jews there.”

  88. anarchyst says:
    @RadicalCenter

    The “solution” to the location of the U. S. Embassy in Jerusalem would have been to place the U. S. Embassy squarely on the “green line”, half of the building in East Jerusalem for Palestine’s interests and the other half in West Jerusalem for Israel’s interests. Of course, the jews would have a fit, but so what?
    THAT would have been an equitable solution for the U. S. Embassy in Jerusalem

  89. A123 says:
    @Colin Wright

    You’re easier to take when you snarl rather than attempt to deceive.

    I only tell the truth. And, it is The TRUTH that you find hard to take.

    PEACE

  90. “Palestinians” and their sympathizers need to come to grips with the consequences of losing so many consecutive wars by such huge margins of victory. Isreal has not stolen its lands, it won them fair and square in wars Arabs started and holds them by right of conquest.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @Colin Wright
  91. Talha says:
    @neutral

    There are rules to warfare – it is irrelevant if the enemy abides by them; we are bound by sacred law.

    If there comes a time for war, let it come, but fight it right.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @frankie p
  92. @Charles_Martel

    Go back to Brietbart asshole.

    • LOL: Talha
  93. @Normie-American

    Israel started every war it was involved in in the mideast and Israel was a terrorist state and still is, read the book Blood in the Water by Joan Mellen about the joint zio/US and Israeli attack on the USS Liberty and also the attack on the WTC was done by Israel and traitors in the zio/US government.

  94. How else could it concluded?

  95. “They want Americans to kill muslims in the middle east.”

    I don’t think the president wants to kill anyone in the ME or anywhere.

    He wants to win re-election.

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  96. Peredur says:

    The same evil Zionists who are at war with the truth (as in what really happened in concentration camps, on 9/11, etc.) are trying to erase the existence of people who inadvertently got in the way of the Zionist project.

  97. @Normie-American

    Zionist. This really brought ’em out of the woodwork.

    …like turning over an old sheet of plywood in the alley, or something. God…

  98. frankie p says:
    @Germanicus

    Inaccurate statement.

    You can only keep the land if your people are willing to stay there. The fact is, the Jews of Israel will continue to have the bigger gun than the Palestinians, but the Palestinians, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran can take advantage of any future military action to rain missiles down on Israel proper, making the majority of the Jews who have means seriously consider emigration to Europe or the US. I am not a supporter of this, but I see the truth. The tide has changed, and in military matters the advent of missiles will nullify the air superiority of the Israelis. Why has Israel not used its air force on southern Lebanon in recent years? It knows that Hezbollah is active in preparing for the battles to take back the Shebba Farms and aid Syria in taking back the Golan Heights. Israel will not attack southern Lebanon because Nasrallah will adopt the same approach that Iran has signaled to the US. Any attack, no matter how small and inconsequential, will be met by a disproportionate response with maximum firepower. Another air attack on south Beirut or southern Lebanon by the Israeli air force will result in thousands of missiles being launched. This is a trend that will not be reversed. The Israeli leadership knows this, and so they double their efforts to convince the US to fight the Israeli war for the Israelis. They seem to have difficulty understanding that the jig is up; the Resistance knows that an American attack will be the result of Jewish pressure on the US, and Israel will become an immediate target.

    Kushner’s “Deal” is a joke. The Palestinians need to continue to practice sumud, steadfast resistance against the oppression that they have faced for so many years. The very idea that these people would cave in to some Jewish financial incentives (from Gulf States no less!) after the deaths, crippling, and endless incarceration of so many of their men and boys and the incremental theft of their land and property over decades just shows what a bizarre world Kushner, his Ziobrigade, and Trump live in. These Americans DO NOT UNDERSTAND what dealing with men of integrity entails. Khameni would not even open the envelope that Trump sent with Abe during the Japanese leaders trip to Iran. The Iranians responded to Trump’s plea “Let me bomb some sand in the desert so that this can be a win-win for both of us.” with the appropriate response: “Any attack on any Iranian territory will be met with a disproportionate and massive military response.”
    Trump, Kushner and company think that they are in the Jew world of NYC real estate, but they are actually in a very different world, a world in which men are willing to die for their countries, their beliefs, and their faith.

    Frankie P

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  99. @neutral

    ‘Not peace and not patience, get WMDs and start launching them on Israel endlessly. Target their nuclear reactor, their Knesset, their schools, their wailing wall. Once this foul entity is wiped out, other foul regimes such as the Saudis and Egyptian junta will also fall.’

    This makes no sense. If the US is still strong and still slaved to Israel’s will, the ‘strategy’ is suicidal.

    If the US is either no longer strong, or no longer slaved to Israel’s will, Israel is dead anyway, so it’s unnecessary.

    A step in the right direction has already been taken. Israel is ceasing to be an object of universal approval in US politics, and is becoming the property of the Right. The only real danger is if Israel suddenly starts making nice. Just let her continue as she has, and it should all be over within a generation.

    I recommend discreetly baiting her. The worse she behaves, the sooner she ceases to exist.

  100. frankie p says:
    @Talha

    Again, Tahla is expressing ideas that come from integrity: it is irrelevant if the enemy abides by our rules; we are bound by our rules, and will continue to follow them.

    There is no need for indiscriminate use of WMDs against Israel. Nasrallah, Iran, Syria, and the Shia militias of Iraq will continue to stockpile, plan and wait for the opportune time. The leaders of the resistance have no desire to wipe out the Jewish Israeli population of civilians; they understand that when the situation becomes clear to this population, those with the means will leave on their own accord. When government buildings, transportation infrastructure hubs, industrial capacity is compromised by missile attacks, the attitude of the Israeli people will change fundamentally. They may even push their leaders to compromise and reach a just settlement agreed upon by the Palestinian people. This will be accepted by the Resistance, provided it is an authentic agreement by Palestinian society as a whole, not a corrupt PA. Please note that these missile attacks will be a response; they will not be initiated by the resistance. So for now, sumud and prayer.

    Tahla,
    On a religious note, I have a question for you. What is the opinion of Muslim cleric and religious scholars on the birth of Jesus Christ? Is there a belief as among Christians of a virgin birth, or is the opinion that Joseph was Jesus Christ’s biological birth father? Thanks in advance.

    Frankie P

    • Replies: @Talha
  101. JNDillard says:
    @renfro

    Dear Renfro, This was very helpful. Thank you very mcch. This is an excellent example of what the internet can do – strangers helping strangers to advance knowledge and a cause – exactly what those who want to “manufacture our consent,” as NoamChompsky puts it, would like to control, but no longer can. Thanks again.

    • Replies: @renfro
  102. FB says: • Website

    It does not offer the bare minimum acceptable to Palestinians: A genuinely sovereign Palestine including all territories stolen by Israel in 1967, with its capital al-Quds [East Jerusalem], alongside an Israeli acknowledgment of the internationally-recognized Palestinian right of return and a plan—however gradual—for its implementation. Anything less is a non-starter.

    This is it in a nutshell…international law, including several UNSC Resolutions [the highest law on the planet] does not recognize one inch beyond Israel’s pre 1967 borders…this is in fact the backbone of the postwar global world order…that territorial acquisition by means of force of arms is completely illegitimate…

    For a time back in the 1990s it seemed like Israel might agree to leave the occupied territories, but not to accept back the landowners driven out in the Naqba…their number has grown just too great…one can sympathize to some extent with Israel’s position on the return issue…it would mean the end of the ‘Jewish’ state…

    However this issue by itself may just possibly be amenable to some sort of financial compensation…however this ‘deal of the century’ is a slap in the face…

    In the end…time is on the Palestinians’ side…the US looks like its heading for tango uniform in a hurry…once the doodoo hits the fan…I think few in the US will have the luxury to think about backstopping Israel’s colonialism…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @A123
  103. JNDillard says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Israel has tied its destiny to the US. As we all know, it presently largely controls US foreign policy – to a point. It has not yet succeeded in over-ruling the Pentagon and forcing a war on Iran. But it has succeeded in doing so with Iraq and Syria; therefore one would be naive to think that it will give up getting others – proxies and stupid goys – to fight and die for it. It has done this successfully not only with the US but with NATO and of course the Arabs, where it has turned Wahabbism into a tool for its own purposes for decades now. But tying its destiny to that of the US will result in its deconstruction when the US empire collapses in upon itself. We can all feel that it is already living on borrowed time, on massive debt and financial budgets hiding a hollowed-out economy that has no more genuine industrial sector and has forsaken meritocracy for bribes, social promotions, and affirmative action. Corrupt to the core, alienating even its lap dog poodle allies, one can only marvel that it has not yet collapsed. The basic reason is that the rest of the world does not want it to, because the results will be too devastating. The world is trying to let it down easily and slowly, so it has the time and resources to sustain its implosion of the world economic system. But when that day comes the support that Israel depends upon to maintain its apartheid will collapse and it will have to negotiate with Palestine, meaning it will have to deal with it on fair and equal terms, make restitution, and no longer be an ethnically-based theocracy. The only thing I see that will stop that inevitable outcome is nuclear holocaust. While that still remains a real catastrophic possibility, as long as the Pentagon holds out against going to war against Iran, that will be avoided. However, if Israel and its sycophantic Zionist neoconservatives, “progressives,” “liberals,” and Zionist Christians in the US and the EU get the Pentagon to attack Iran, all bets are off. I don’t think such a war is capable of being contained, because Iran can and will take out US and allied assets throughout the Gulf region, probably precipitating nuclear retaliation. Thanks for your comment.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  104. @frankie p

    ‘…These Americans DO NOT UNDERSTAND what dealing with men of integrity entails…’

    I keep fearing this sort of thing will be proved wrong; but it keeps on turning out to be proved right.

    …of course, I think a good deal of this has to be credited to the sheer incompetence of Jews as conquerors. I’m suspicious of any thesis that implies any especial moral superiority to the Palestinian people.

    …just on principle, my working assumption is that they must be kind of average.

    So if they’re still standing, the explanation must lie in the flaws of their oppressors.

    • Replies: @renfro
  105. @FB

    ‘…This is it in a nutshell…international law, including several UNSC Resolutions [the highest law on the planet] does not recognize one inch beyond Israel’s pre 1967 borders…’

    There are no ‘1967 borders.’ Those were just the 1949 cease-fire lines. Israel’s legal boundaries remain those she was allocated and accepted in 1947 — about 53%, not 78%, of Palestine.

    Not that there’s anything just about that either — but if we’re to talk about ‘law,’ ‘Israel’ needs to withdraw to the one set of borders she was assigned, and that she accepted.

    • Replies: @FB
  106. AaronB says:
    @Sean

    I remember very well the 90s – the Israeli Left back then was infected with an extraordinary streak of naive idealism, and Barack thought that with a dramatic gesture of sheer magnanimity, of sheer good faith, he would elicit a genuine response in kind back from the Palestinians.

    This idealism reflects to some extent the warrior and farmer ethos of Israelis, and is an echo of the idealism of the Kibbutz and the communist founders.

    It is a very different mindset from the merchant mindset of American Jews.

    When the Palestinians responded with an unprecedented campaign of slaughter directed at Israeli civilians, like wolves who scented blood, the shock in Israel went to the very core of their beings.

    The Israeli Left has to confront the crude reality that they were dealing with an adversary on an astonishingly low moral level. This is responsible for the almost permanent rightward tilt of Israeli politics and a sense of total disillusionment. The naive idealism of the 90s vanished like a puff of smoke exposed to sunlight.

    The real reason Palestinians have been making such little headway, and the Arab world in general, is because their societies suffer from a deep spiritual sickness. And you cannot succeed at anything unless you have a high sense of personal morality.

    I believe that the Palestinian tactic of targeting Israeli civilians has created a tremendous amount of secret shame and self disgust among Palestinians. Military targets are literally everywhere in Israel, yet when infants, children, and women are your primary targets – no human can feel self respect when this is his primary method of waging warfare. No man can.

    I think this is one of the reasons Israeli intelligence finds it so easy to infiltrate all levels of Palestinian society – a huge number of Palestinians lack the basics of moral self respect, and are secretly disgusted with themselves. By contrast, Israeli society generates a high level of loyalty and solidarity, and self respect.

    That Israeli society operates on a higher moral level than the Arab world is the determining factor in all their wars. Israeli officers lead from the front and expose themselves to the greatest personal risk. By contrast, Arab officers give orders from the rear and are notorious for abandoning their troops. The moral level is lacking.

    And lack of morality towards others is mirrored by lack of morality towards members of their own group.

    The Israeli Army has a purity of arms policy, and soldiers must take classes in it. Such a thing is unimaginable among Palestinians – who precisely adopt lack of purity of arms as their primary tactic.

    The Palestinians, and the Arab world in general, will continue to suffer setback after setback until they elevate their spiritual and moral level, both among themselves and towards their enemies.

    One interesting and positive development is that the long conflict with Israel seems to be transforming the Palestinians to some small extent – they are being affected in a moral direction by their contact with Israelis, even in conflict.

    More and more Palestinians are expressing admiration at the cohesion and support of Israeli society, the way they take care of their own, and its higher moral level in war. And Palestinians are more and more selecting military targets rather than civilians for their attacks, although they still regular target the weak and defenseless in Israel.

    And that is natural – it is a wonder though that Israel did not get dragged down, but rather succeeded in elevating the Palestinians, even to a small extent. Although perhaps that’s too optimistic an assessment – Israel has unfortunately had to fight dirty sometimes to prevail against its relentless enemies.

    • Troll: renfro, Iris
  107. Kevin Barrett, you are an example of what happens to a Western male when he converts to a heretical belief system and marries a non-Western female – you lose your ability to think and degenerate to the level of the genetic waste in the Middle East.

    As a Christan Western woman, I will give you a plan that is the best for the West. Muslims and Jews will not like, but I don’t care about them. I want this problem solved so that the West can deal with its own issues.

    Muslim Palestinians belong in Jordan. Big picture, 90% of Middle East Muslims have black ancestry and an average IQ of 84. They easily fit in any of the existing countries in the Middle East. Jordan is closest to Israel, so their move will be an easy one.

    Jerusalem stays in Israeli hands because I trust the Jews more to protect Christian holy sites than Muslims. I want the Al-Aqsa Mosque turned into a church. The Crusaders turned it into a church.

    I want Israel to define its borders. This is happening as they are reconquering the West Bank. This is fine because then Nazareth and Bethlehem will be under Israeli control and Palestinian Christians can move back to these towns.

    The average Israeli Jewish IQ is 93 so they have the ability to run a functioning country. I’ve been to Israel so I have firsthand experience. Present day Jews are not related to the Jews of the Old Testament or when Jesus lived. If these “Jews” want to practice “Judaism,” they have to do it in Israel. Jews are not Western and cannot live in Western countries. They must go to Israel. Foreign aid to Israel should be stopped. They can take care of themselves.

    As a reminder, Islam is a Christian heresy so any claims to holy sites in Jerusalem is nonsense. Also, Islam is a biologically degenerative belief system as it promotes miscegenation, polygamy, first cousin marriage and concubinage – IQ lowering practices. Your Moroccan wife is a product of this system. Muslims in the Middle East will be told that Israel is there to stay and that they must deal with their countries. Muslims in the West will be deported.

    In the USA, we’ll take care of idiot Christian Zionists who are causing problems in the Middle East.

    You do have a higher IQ than the average Middle East Muslim, so it is best if you and your family move to the Middle East to help Muslims with their problems.

    The West is not black/Asian/Jewish/Muslim.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  108. Talha says:
    @frankie p

    Hi Frankie,

    My teachers have taught me that one cannot both hope and plead for God to be with them, while deliberately breaking the very rules He has obligates upon us. In fact, the very reason for our inability to make any traction may well be because we attempt to fight using immoral means. This must change.

    As far as your other question; yes, he (may his name be blessed) was indeed born of a virgin birth. I know of no difference of opinion on this and believing otherwise may put one outside the fold of Islam.

    Peace.

  109. @AaronB

    I knew you were a Zionist swine.

    Sure enough, it came out.

    Please, take all your nauseating lies and shove them right up your first-born’s virgin rectum.

    Please.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  110. @AaronB

    ‘…Israel has unfortunately had to fight dirty sometimes to prevail against its relentless enemies.’

    That’s called ‘shoot and cry.’ You aren’t the first one to dream it up.

    The lies have run out. Someday, you’ll have to resort to the truth.

    …only there isn’t any, is there?

  111. renfro says:
    @JNDillard

    You’re welcome…happy to provide the info.

  112. A123 says:
    @FB

    This is it in a nutshell…international law, including several UNSC Resolutions [the highest law on the planet] does not recognize one inch beyond Israel’s pre 1967 borders…

    Wholly incorrect. International Law was set in the 1920’s by the League of Nations.

    The UN openly violated International Law in the 40’s and 1967, when it collaborated with Jihadi Islamist plans to steal Jewish land. The U.N. continues to commit War Crimes on a regular basis. They have been caught supplying weapons depots and missile launch facilities to Hamas (1) *multiple* times. The defunding of UNRWA is the most positive development in recent history as the U.N. actively opposes peace.

    Hopefully the world will come to its senses and abolish the warmongering U.N. Though that may be unrealistic optimism on my part.

    PEACE

    ______

    (1) http://www.thetower.org/1955-un-report-confirms-hamas-stored-and-fired-weapons-from-un-schools/

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @FB
  113. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    …just on principle, my working assumption is that they must be kind of average.

    I don’t think so…..ask yourself……would/could you have lived under brutal occupation for 54 years and still have the will and fortitude to resist the theft of your homeland?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  114. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    When did I deny I am Zionist? In my own responses to you, Colin, I said I believe all Jews should move to Israel. You were there for that.

    I believe the diaspora is unhealthy for us, and it’s ethically wrong for Jews who identify primarily with Judaism to have such outsize influence in the US.

    I think this is a principled stand on my part.

    Israel is the ancestral land of the Jews, the center of our religious life. The idea that we cannot have this tiny sliver – while Muslims and Christians between them half half the world – is morally preposterous.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @renfro
  115. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Crying after you shoot, is better than your whole community erupting in celebrations and handing out candy after you murdered a baby in its sleep.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  116. @A123

    ‘Wholly incorrect. International Law was set in the 1920’s by the League of Nations.’

    Why there you go.

    …and the Zionists agreed with the League of Nations that ‘a national homeland’ would on no account be taken as a mandate for an autonomous (to say nothing of independent) state.

    https://colinwrightssite.wordpress.com/2019/07/15/the-balfour-declaration-dont-blame-the-british/

    Good move.

    • Replies: @Talha
  117. FB says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    No that’s not correct…the 1947 UN partition plan did propose a 55 to 45 split in favor of Israel…but this later became moot as events on the ground overtook the process…

    The biggest problem was the British [then still the formal administrators of the territory] were dragging their feet as if wanting to do the most harm possible…the Jews took up arms and finally forced the British out in 1947…the Brits were also plotting with the neighboring Arabs at the same time…since they had no intention of giving up their mandate…

    After the UN general assembly [whose decisions are not legally binding, like those of the Security Council] adopted the partition plan, the neighboring Arab countries attacked [they were encouraged in this by perfidious Albion…and actually led by British officers…]

    But the plucky Jews managed to beat them back and grab more land…they declared independence in 1948 while the war was still raging…the Soviet Union gave official recognition three days later on 17 May, 1948 and also supplied the Israelis with crucial arms by way of Czechoslovakia…the US and other countries did not de jure recognize Israel until 1949 when an armistice was signed…

    This effectively locked in the approximately 50 percent gain in territory over the non binding UN plan…later Security Council Resolutions affirmed those 1949 borders…so legally Israel is entitled to its pre 1967 borders…but not an inch more…

    The villain in all this is perfidious Albion of course…had they not been playing their usual double dealing the UN plan might have had a chance…

  118. FB says: • Website
    @A123

    International Law was set in the 1920’s by the League of Nations.

    You’re hallucinating, moron…the founding of the UN superceded The League of Nations…

    The UN Security Council is the ONLY body that can issue LEGALLY BINDING resolutions on member states…a number of which UNSC resolutions Israel has been flouting for fifty years…

    I’m surprised the Jewish Internet Defense Force can’t hire anything more intelligent than a fucking cucumber…

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  119. @renfro

    ‘I don’t think so…..ask yourself……would/could you have lived under brutal occupation for 54 years and still have the will and fortitude to resist the theft of your homeland?’

    I sympathize with the sentiment — but one thing that has struck me over the years is that the Jews don’t give the Palestinians any place to go, so to speak.

    If you were an Indian living under the British, you join the military, or could study, get yourself a position in the civil service hierarchy, and move up the ladder. If you were an Indian in Spanish America, you could convert to Christianity and find yourself a (rather low) rung on the hierarchy of Spanish colonial society. Even under Nazi rule, you could (sometimes) allow yourself to be classified as Volksdeutsch, thus solving your problems. Irish-Americans become police, Polish Americans become steel workers, etc.

    One way or another, all successful conquerors make cooperation possible. The Jews in Palestine specialize in kicking in the teeth of even those who would be their Quislings.

    Palestinians have to resist. The Jews give them no choice. I see this every time I read another story about Jewish soldiers humiliating their own ghetto police.

    • Replies: @renfro
  120. @EliteCommInc.

    Trump will do whatever Israel tells him to do and Trump has done everything that Israel has told him to do, Trump is a compromized pied piper leading America to destruction.

  121. @FB

    ‘No that’s not correct…the 1947 UN partition plan did propose a 55 to 45 split in favor of Israel…but this later became moot as events on the ground overtook the process…’

    No…it is correct. The Yishuv ‘accepted’ the partition — and then immediately set about deliberately violating its provisions so as to drive out as many Palestinians as possible and grab as much additional land as possible. Do a search on ‘Plan Dalet.’

    • Replies: @renfro
  122. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    Thanks for that link – much appreciated!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  123. @FB

    ‘…the US and other countries did not de jure recognize Israel until 1949 when an armistice was signed…

    This effectively locked in the approximately 50 percent gain in territory over the non binding UN plan…’

    Don’t be silly. The cease-fire lines of an armistice don’t magically become borders because you want them to.

    …I don’t know why I repetitively argue about this crap. The implicit assumption is that my interlocutors are sincere, and they’re obviously not. At best, they go to their Zionist propaganda sites and willingly lap up the mendacious crap they find there.

    • Replies: @FB
  124. @AaronB

    ‘Crying after you shoot, is better than your whole community erupting in celebrations and handing out candy after you murdered a baby in its sleep.’

    Jeepers, Aaron. Maybe we shouldn’t give the Palestinians any more arms and money than we give the Jews!

    I’m all for that. How about you?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  125. @AaronB

    /When the Palestinians responded with an unprecedented campaign of slaughter/

    But the Intifada actually did not start for another two months (after Camp David broke down). In the meantime, there was relative calm in the occupied territories. During this period of quiet, the two sides continued negotiating behind closed doors. Meanwhile, life for the Palestinian population under Israeli occupation went on as usual. On July 28, Prime Minister Barak announced that Israel had no plans to withdraw from the town of Abu Dis, as it had pledged to do in the 1995 Oslo II agreement (Israel Wire, 7/28/00). In August and early September, Israel announced new construction on Jewish-only settlements in Efrat and Har Adar, while the Israeli statistics bureau reported that settlement building had increased 81 percent in the first quarter of 2000. Two Palestinian houses were demolished in East Jerusalem, and Arab residents of Sur Bahir and Suwahara received expropriation notices; their houses lay in the path of a planned Jewish-only highway (Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 11-12/00).

    The Intifada began on September 29, 2000, when Israeli troops opened fire on unarmed Palestinian rock-throwers at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, killing four and wounding over 200 (State Department human rights report for Israel, 2/01). link

    /The Israeli Left has to confront the crude reality that they were dealing with an adversary on an astonishingly low moral level. This is responsible for the almost permanent rightward tilt of Israeli politics and a sense of total disillusionment./

    The Taba talks are one of the most significant and least remembered events of the “peace process.” While so far in 2002 (1/1/02-5/31/02), Camp David has been mentioned in conjunction with Israel 35 times on broadcast network news shows, Taba has come up only four times–never on any of the nightly newscasts. In February 2002, Israel’s leading newspaper, Ha’aretz (2/14/02), published for the first time the text of the European Union’s official notes of the Taba talks, which were confirmed in their essential points by negotiators from both sides.

    “Anyone who reads the European Union account of the Taba talks,” Ha’aretz noted in its introduction, “will find it hard to believe that only 13 months ago, Israel and the Palestinians were so close to a peace agreement.” At Taba, Israel dropped its demand to control Palestine’s borders and the Jordan Valley. The Palestinians, for the first time, made detailed counterproposals–in other words, counteroffers–showing which changes to the 1967 borders they would be willing to accept. The Israeli map that has emerged from the talks shows a fully contiguous West Bank, though with a very narrow middle and a strange gerrymandered western border to accommodate annexed settlements.

    In the end, however, all this proved too much for Israel’s Labor prime minister. On January 28, Barak unilaterally broke off the negotiations. “The pressure of Israeli public opinion against the talks could not be resisted,” Ben-Ami said (New York Times, 7/26/01).

    Shlomo Ben-Ami, who was directly engaged with Arafat at Taba, has repeatedly confirmed that it was Israeli public unwillingness to make concessions at Taba that scuttled any peace deal. In other words, they were already intransigent, no “rightward tilt” needed.

    /And you cannot succeed at anything unless you have a high sense of personal morality./

    And your “high sense of personal morality” begins with your own honesty, Aaron.

    The “purity of arms” shtick you’re peddling is just so much hasbara, particularly when we’ve got folders stocked to overflow with examples of Israeli army malevolence.

    One such example:

    Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child’s body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. “She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs,” he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. “The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face.” link

    If you want to shed some light on this dark corner of the web, may I suggest avoiding this topic henceforth. Your words are not consonant with the best of what you have to offer.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
    , @Colin Wright
  126. @AaronB

    ‘…Israel is the ancestral land of the Jews, the center of our religious life. The idea that we cannot have this tiny sliver – while Muslims and Christians between them half half the world – is morally preposterous.’

    We’ve been over that. You can no more trace your ancestry to Palestine than I can.

    On the other hand, the Palestinians…

  127. @FB

    ‘…I’m surprised the Jewish Internet Defense Force can’t hire anything more intelligent than a fucking cucumber…’\

    Hey. Are you talking shit about my cucumbers?

    • LOL: Talha, FB
  128. @AaronB

    ‘Hmmm, I suspect you might actually like Jews after all, Colin 🙂’

    I like Germans, too.

    At least the problem with them is in the past tense.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  129. FB says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    The cease-fire lines of an armistice don’t magically become borders because you want them to.

    That is correct…but like I said, subsequent UNSC resolutions did recognize the pre 1967 borders…so that’s that…

    Like I said the general assembly resolutions are not binding…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  130. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    I generally don’t support America giving Israel any money – at this point, it is just symbolic. Its 1% of Israel’s GDP.

    Obviously I support America selling Israel weapons to defend itself – which, by the way, it only did after after Israel’s 1967 victory, when it emerged Israel might be a useful as an ally in the Cold War.

    But my original point is that there can be no comparison between someone who regrets civilian casualties and someone who targets civilians.

    Do a thought experiment – in Israel soldiers are literally everywhere, all over the place, in uniform. There are also military checkpoints and bases all over the country, easily accessible, with soldiers in various states of alertness, often low.

    So its not like Palestinians lack military targets. They can regularly pick off soldiers walking around. Imagine for a moment Palestinians only killed soldiers, and attacked bases and checkpoints. Imagine they never murdered babies in their sleep. Imagine they never kidnapped teenagers. They never suicide bombed wedding halls.

    They would kill just as many Israelis, but they would all be combatants. They choose infants, children, and teenagers because this causes the most emotional damage.

    Israelis can tolerate soldiers dying, it’s expected of them, that’s their job.

    It’s a tactic chosen not for operational reasons but to inflict maximum trauma in the cruelest way possible.

    But how much more sympathetic Palestinians would be – how much more self respect they would have in their own eyes! – if they behaved in this manner!

    What Palestinians don’t realise is that by succumbing to their lowest instincts they hurt themselves in their own eyes and degrade their own society – out of this culture of moral degradation arises the fact that Arab officers abandon their soldiers in a crisis, and so many Palestinians are willing to cooperate with Israeli intelligence out of self disgust.

    One needs moral self respect. Our behavior towards others is entwined with our sense of self respect, and ultimately, our behavior towards our selves.

  131. @attilathehen

    Present day Jews are not related to the Jews of the Old Testament or when Jesus lived.

    Everybody on the planet would descend from the Israelites after all this time. With the possible exception of the Sentinelese islanders. Do the arithmetic.

    1,267,650,600,228,229,401,496,703,205,376 is the number of ancestral places you’d have had 100 generations ago. There were only about 100,000,000 people in the world in 500 BC [sic].

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  132. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    People have been prevailing over despots and injustice for centuries…..the fat lady hasn’t sung on Palestine yet.

    • Replies: @Iris
  133. Yep, The so called “Israelis” really do believe their own bullshit. The MSM will do their part and spin it, as always. The Palestinians will be the terrorists who turned down the awesome deal of the century, that would have given them everything they ever hoped for and more. Its their fault, so now so called “Israel” has the right to murder more of them and steal their land and resources.

    The so called “Israelis” are living on borrowed time, and they know it. The younger generation does not buy into their BS, more and more Jews are turning on them. No way they can exist the way they wish to. Its only a matter of time now.

    I don’t blame most regular “Israelis” They are even more brainwashed than Americans, more so than even the “Christian Zionists” The leaders of “Israel” care nothing about the ordinary citizens, or the Jewish religion, only things they care about or worship are money and power. Colonialism/Imperialism same as it ever was.

    The ordinary citizens are programmed from birth to act the way they do, it’s just ignorance. No different here. Their “leaders” are no different than ours, all the mainstream parties are the same, voting makes little or no difference, the media is the same as ours, 24/7 nonsense and race baiting, divide and rule.

    Always follow the money. 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline legally belong to Palestine. Think the so called “Israelis” intend to ever let them profit from it? Same deal with Syria and Lebanon.

    War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza’s Offshore Gas Fields
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/war-and-natural-gas-the-israeli-invasion-and-gaza-s-offshore-gas-fields/11680

    Preparing the Chessboard for the “Clash of Civilizations”: Divide, Conquer and Rule the “New Middle East”
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/preparing-the-chessboard-for-the-clash-of-civilizations-divide-conquer-and-rule-the-new-middle-east/27786

    Israel Steals Gaza’s Offshore Natural Gas: $15 Billion Deal with Jordan
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-steals-gazas-offshore-natural-gas-15-billion-deal-with-jordan/5399736

    Shares in Givot Olam, an Israeli oil exploration company, rallied in October on reports that it had located much larger oil reserves at its Meged site than expected.

    The field is located a few dozen yards on Israel’s side of the Green Line, the armistice line that separates Israel and the Palestinian territory of the West Bank. But the oil field—which extends over a large area, somewhere between 48 and 96 square miles, according to officials at the Israeli energy ministry – is assumed to lie under occupied territory as well.

    According to Palestinian officials, Israel—claiming security—has moved the course of its concrete and steel separation wall to provide Givot Olam with unfettered access to the site, between the Israeli town of Rosh Haayin and the Palestinian village of Rantis, northwest of Ramallah.

    https://www.wrmea.org/014-january-february/the-nakba-continues-israel-continues-its-theft-of-palestinian-natural-resources.html

  134. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    I also like Germans 🙂 I even admire them. My favourite European writers are German.

  135. @FB

    ‘That is correct…but like I said, subsequent UNSC resolutions did recognize the pre 1967 borders…so that’s that…

    Like I said the general assembly resolutions are not binding…’

    ? You may want to look up what specifically the UNSC Resolutions said, and what legal force they have.

    What remains true is that Israel herself accepted the 1947 Partition Declaration boundaries. If I agree in writing to pay you $1500 a month rent, isn’t my rent $1500 a month?

    …or is Israel exempt from honoring her word? I mean, evidence implies she is, but…

    • Replies: @FB
  136. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin is correct.
    Furthermore if anyone wants claim Israel didn’t agree to UN boundaries they can go to the Office of the Historian and look up the letter conveyed to Truman by the then Israel Minster saying they accepted the UN plan and requirements in UN Res 181 and would formally announce the Jewish State’s creation. Res.181 laid out the borders in detail.

    I don’t have time to go get it but the Israeli letter is specific….so when the Jews claim they never accepted the boundaries or that there never were any specific boundaries they are lying.

    • Replies: @FB
  137. @Talha

    ‘Thanks for that link – much appreciated!

    You’re welcome.

    …the only problem is that this can get like shooting the animals at some perversely magical merry-go-round.

    You shoot the lion, and it goes around and out of sight, and you shoot the giraffe, and it goes around and out of sight, and you shoot the unicorn, and it goes around and…

    …and there’s the lion again! Quite unharmed.

    Zionists have this array of a score or so lame and easily debunked arguments. No matter — they just trot them out one after the other, and when you’ve shot down number twenty, they just calmly produce number 0ne again.

    You have to recognize with this shit…your interlocutors have absolutely no intellectual integrity whatsover,

    • Replies: @Talha
  138. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    There are indeed countless examples of individual Israeli soldiers committing crimes in the field – but there is a system that investigates and punishes this, and it is prohibited and soldiers must attend classes on how to act morally.

    There are also countless cases where Israeli pilots and soldiers aborted missions on legitimate military targets because of potential civilian casualties.

    I am certainly not claiming Israeli behavior is without taint – but there is a literal universe of difference between the Israeli attitude, however flawed, and glam attitude which deliberately seeks out the weakest and most defenseless to kill, and a community that erupts in festivity in response to this.

    A flawed moral system cannot be compared to a complete disregard for the moral dimension.

    To bring this difference into vivid and sharp relief, consider the Israeli reaction to the recent case of a soldier who shot a neutralized terrorist – not even an innocent civilian, but an actual terrorist who moments ago attacked soldiers.

    The soldier was tried and served time in prison.

    Can one imagine anything remotely comparable among the Palestinians? They celebrate when they kill babies, can one imagine them punishing someone who shot dead an Israeli soldier who was neutralized? That would be the expected and desired thing.

    These comparisons are preposterous.

    And until the Palestinians grasp they are doing immense damage to their own moral fabric, that they are paradoxically reducing their ability to win and degrading themselves in their own eyes – because yes, they are human beings with consciences, and it registers on a deep level no matter what they tell themselves – their aspirations will come to nothing.

  139. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    Actually, the Camp David Accords failed because the Palestinians insisted on the right of return of refugees into Israel proper, demonstrating they would settle for nothing less than the total erasure of Israel, in an astonishingly revelation of their true intentions and scuttling the notion once and for all that they are interested in compromise.

    The Palestinians refused to sign this agreement. They made it clear that the issue of the refugees that Israel had expelled from Palestine in 1948 was at the heart of the conflict and that the conflict was not solely about the future of the occupied territories. They restated that a solution could not be reached so long as Israel did not recognize the right of return of refugees. The Israeli Parliament decided that the right of return of Palestinians to the properties they left behind in 1948 was non-negotiable.

    Camp David II failed and was followed by a resurgence of the Palestinian uprising or intifada.

    https://fanack.com/arab-palestinian-israeli-conflict/reparations-for-palestinians/peace-efforts-right-of-return/

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  140. @AnonStarter

    ‘…One such example:

    Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child’s body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. “She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs,” he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. “The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face.” link

    If you want to shed some light on this dark corner of the web, may I suggest avoiding this topic henceforth. Your words are not consonant with the best of what you have to offer.’

    I think this is an example of that ineffable Jewish spiritual superiority AaronB was referring to a while back. You’ll note that Captain R’s punishment was progressively reduced until he was confined to base for a few months and suffered a reduction in rank — and then he successfully sued for damages!

    The irony, of course, is that the only reason Captain R was charged at all was that he was such an incredibly unpopular officer that his own men were willing to testify against him. Normally, of course, killing some little shiksa piece of vermin would be regarded as a mitzvah in the ol’ Light unto. One shot, two kills, as they say.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  141. @AaronB

    ‘Obviously I support America selling Israel weapons to defend itself – which, by the way, it only did after after Israel’s 1967 victory, when it emerged Israel might be a useful as an ally in the Cold War.’

    Ahem. We already demonstrated that was a lie, Aaron.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  142. renfro says:
    @AaronB

    The idea that we cannot have this tiny sliver – while Muslims and Christians between them half half the world – is morally preposterous

    lol….this sooooo typical…….Jews are only 13 to 15 million people….the world is 7 billion people…with Christians, Catholics and Muslims being the bulk of the 7 billion.

    What’s morally ridiculous is what the Jews have done with the piece of land they do have…..its the ultimate in immorality .

  143. @AaronB

    ‘…So its not like Palestinians lack military targets. They can regularly pick off soldiers walking around. Imagine for a moment Palestinians only killed soldiers, and attacked bases and checkpoints. Imagine they never murdered babies in their sleep. Imagine they never kidnapped teenagers. They never suicide bombed wedding halls.

    They would kill just as many Israelis, but they would all be combatants. They choose infants, children, and teenagers because this causes the most emotional damage.

    Israelis can tolerate soldiers dying, it’s expected of them, that’s their job…’

    I think if you ever work out the respective combatant/civilian kill ratios for each side, you’ll have to give yourself chutzpah points for this one, Aaron.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  144. FB says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    You may want to look up what specifically the UNSC Resolutions said, and what legal force they have.

    They have the ultimate legal force, as they are legally binding on all UN member states…nothing trumps a UNSC resolution…

    Anyway…don’t want to flog a dead horse…but you’ve been given a bum steer on that 1947 borders thing…it just ain’t so…but I withdraw from further debate on that…

    Either way, the Kushner ‘deal’ is totally a non event…Kushner comes off as a total lightweight…and frankly his presence in the WH is rightly seen as a big negative by a lot of people…but Trump does need the Jewish endorsement…not to mention the Christian Zionists…PG has a good article on that today on the strategic-culture.org website…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  145. @AaronB

    but there is a system that investigates and punishes this, and it is prohibited and soldiers must attend classes on how to act morally.

    Like Captain R??? http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/child-killed.html

    Watchtower: “It’s a little girl. She’s running defensively eastward.”
    Operations room: “Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?”
    Watchtower: “A girl of about 10, she’s behind the embankment, scared to death.”
    Captain R (after killing the girl): “Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed.”

    “Captain R” was promoted and given a bonus.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  146. Andrew Ho says:
    @Lot

    Imagine that! A guy who is named after an Old Testament “saint” would have the gall to defend Israel!

  147. @AaronB

    ‘There are indeed countless examples of individual Israeli soldiers committing crimes in the field – but there is a system that investigates and punishes this, and it is prohibited and soldiers must attend classes on how to act morally…’

    Several in jokes there, already, don’t you think?

    Will you explain the humor, or should I?

  148. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    From wiki –

    Kennedy ended the arms embargo that the Eisenhower and Truman administrations had enforced on Israel

    Kennedy in the early 60s was the first to sell weapons to Israel and the Arab armies equally, but in small amounts.

    Before this time and until 1968 –

    France became Israel’s main arms supplier at this time and provided Israel with advanced military equipment and technology. This support was seen by Israel to counter the perceived threat from Egypt under President Gamal Abdel Nasser with respect to the “Czech arms deal” of September 1955

    Then –

    Following the war, the perception in Washington was that many Arab states (notably Egypt) had permanently drifted toward the Soviets. In 1968, with strong support from Congress, Johnson approved the sale of Phantom fighters to Israel, establishing the precedent for US support for Israel’s qualitative military edge over its neighbors. However, the US continued to provide military equipment to Arab states such as Lebanon and Saudi Arabia, to counter Soviet arms sales in the region.

    Large scale arms sales to Israel, with the US replacing France as its main supplier, began at this time, and the policy of maintaining Israel’s qualitative edge.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  149. @AaronB

    ‘…The soldier was tried and served time in prison.’

    Don’t be such a hypocrite. First off, he only served a couple of months.

    Secondly, and you know this perfectly well, the only reason he was charged at all was that he had been videotaped carrying out the murder in cold blood — and the footage had escaped into the public domain.

    ..,and to think you actually had the effrontery to gargle about Jewish spiritual superiority. You’re the most shamelessly dishonest hypocrite I’ve encountered on this board.

    …God knows. Maybe by Israeli moral standards you are pretty good. It could be. What’s the bottom like?

    • Replies: @AaronB
  150. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Lol, the weaponry at Israel’s disposal is vastly more lethal.

    In questions of guilt, one asseses intention and targeting, not only outcome.

    But yes, I would be comfortable doing such a kill ratio assessment, despite the vastly greater lethality of Israeli weapons, since probably around 95% percent of Palestinian attacks target civilians.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  151. @AaronB

    ‘…And until the Palestinians grasp they are doing immense damage to their own moral fabric, that they are paradoxically reducing their ability to win and degrading themselves in their own eyes – because yes, they are human beings with consciences, and it registers on a deep level no matter what they tell themselves – their aspirations will come to nothing.’

    And until then we get to keep grinding our boots into their faces!

    How convenient. And don’t be shy — you really like that part. It all goes with that spiritual superiority you’re so proud of.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  152. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    I don’t think this will get resolved politically. I used to have hopes it would, but I do not think it can.

    As you point out, the markers along the way did not move along with the political input and sign off of all involved.

    That’s OK, lands taken by conquest can be regained through conquest ultimately. Again, it is paramount that our side follows the rules of war (whether through our sacred law or any international rules we have signed onto).

    The last foray into Lebanon helped prove out that Israel herself is militarily contained; containment was a prime goal. We can’t have her invading places like Lebanon and Jordan.

    There is a beautiful scene I remember from Lion of the Desert where Omar Mukhtar (ra) stops his men from shooting a young Italian officer, saying; “They are not our teachers.”

    It took us a while to slide to this place (disunity, greed, etc.) and it will take us time to get out of it. In reality, Israel really is a monument built on the foundation of our sins. Patience is required, we’ve got time, we’re not going anywhere – we’ve dealt with this plenty of times before.

    Peace.

  153. @FB

    ‘They have the ultimate legal force, as they are legally binding on all UN member states…nothing trumps a UNSC resolution…’

    Until you quote evidence to support that — and cite the specific language used, this is a non-argument.

    I can assert the US Supreme Court said I have the right to hunt deer out of season, and I can claim nothing trumps a US Supreme Court ruling — but until I cite the actual language of the specific ruling, we’re just dealing with my claim that it’s so.

    • Replies: @FB
  154. @AaronB

    You do it, and like I have, you’ll find that it’s the reverse.

    Proportionately, the IDF kills far more civilians than Palestinian fighters do.

  155. AaronB says:
    @Al Liguori

    Absolutely, we have our evil people. Difference is, we also have our good people, and the establishment and our majority are behind our good people.

    Who is the establishment and the majority behind among the Palestinians? Where are the Palestinians who aborted a mission because of civilian casualties lol? The question, is, obviously, nonsensical. They target civilians.

    Look, like I said, Palestinians hurt themselves more than they hurt Israelis with this – they cannot have a successful society until they address the moral rot that is at the core of their culture.

    A successful society requires trust, loyalty, and cooperation among its members – a society that is morally depraved towards its enemies will be incapable of generating the moral qualities needed to sustain itself on a high level.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @FB
  156. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Secondly, and you know this perfectly well, the only reason he was charged at all was that he had been videotaped carrying out the murder in cold blood — and the footage had escaped into the public domain

    .

    And how would the Palestinian public react to videotaping the murder in cold blood of Israeli children?

    Do you understand the difference here…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  157. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    As I said – Palestinians could kill an equal number of Israelis if they targeted only military. They choose not to.

    It is what is.

    Arab and Muslim societies ate not doing too well now, and the reasons are moral.

    Israel is flourishing.

    The underlying reasons are moral in both cases.

    If Palestininans don’t wish to change, that is up to them.

    The ball is in motion, and things will develop as they develop, according to Gods rules.

    Have a good night.

  158. @Charles_Martel

    Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.
    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public

    Islam stands in their way of usury-ripping of mankind of their resources and defrauding mankind via bank thefts.

    Bring on the Shariah Law. I would much rather live under Shariah, God’s Constitution than under Euoropean/Western diabolic, satanic, fraudulent monies, homosexual, thievery, false flag hoaxes, WMD’s, bogus wars, Unprovoked oppression, tel-LIE-vision, Santa Claus lies, Disney hocus pocus , hollywood, illuminati, free mason, monarchy, oligarchy, millitary industrial complex, life time congressman/senators, upto the eye balls taxation, IRS thievery, Fraudulent federal reserve, Rothchild/Rockerfeller/Queens and Kings city of London satanic cabal, opec petro$$$ thievery, ISISraHELL’s, al-CIA-da hoaxes, Communist, Atheist, Idol worshippers, Fear Monger’s, Drugged and Drunken’s oxy crystal coccaine meth psychopath, child pedeophilia, gambler’s, Pathological and diabolical liars, Hypocrites, sodomites…..I can’t think of any right now, because my mind is exploding with rage because of these troubling central banker’s satanic hegemony!

    The average person knows nothing about jet airplanes and how they fly. The skin or outer shell of the plane is aluminium about as thick as a Dime. They think that it can penetrate steel that’s 8 inches thick and can fly acrobatics in between buildings in lower Manhattan at 500 MPH.
    Operation Mockingbird media made 911 possible. Until a President dismantles the CIA, the USA will continue to be a very sick failed state nation. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, signers of the Constitution, had a hunch that the new nation, the USA, would eventually fail and be destroyed by INTERNAL enemies. Were they correct? Time will tell.
    The process of destruction has already started and has been underway for over 70 years now. One President tried to stop it and he had a very bad day in Dallas….56 years ago.

    One of the MOST IMPORTANT facts left out of this and almost every other article claiming to discuss israeli culpability for 9-11 is the fact that out of the more than 100 israeli nationals arrested on 9-11 and 9-12, more than half were in the country illegally AND more than a dozen arrested were demolitions experts (all in the country illegally)…….Nobody sends demolition experts into a foreign country illegally and therefore secretly to conduct espionage, unless they are planning/carrying out…………demolitions……
    Now I realize this kind of rocket science is clearly too much for most people to accept……….
    The unofficial motto of Israel’s “secret” cyberspace Propaganda unit 8200: Never let the truth, get in the way of a good lie……..

  159. @AaronB

    Your original statement.

    ‘…Obviously I support America selling Israel weapons to defend itself – which, by the way, it only did after after Israel’s 1967 victory…’

    ‘…In the early 1960s, Israel signed a deal with West Germany to purchase 150 M48A2 Patton tanks. However, due to strong Arab nation opposition, only 40 were received. Then the US decided to supply the remaining 110 M48A2 Patton tanks and to add another 100 M48 tanks. So, in 1965, Israel received 90 M48 tanks from the US and another 120 M48 tanks in 1966…’

    Should we go further?

    Look: if you can’t quit lying, I’m going to have to start ignoring you.

  160. @AaronB

    /Actually, the Camp David Accords failed because the Palestinians insisted on the right of return of refugees into Israel proper/

    There’s no evidence that this was on the table at Taba. None. I’ve provided you with the statement of Shlomo Ben-Ami himself, who said quite clearly that it was Israeli public unwillingness that led to the breakdown of peace negotiations. You gave me a link to a site that repeats stock hasbara lies about Camp David, mentioning nothing about Taba.

    You’re now attempting to move the goalposts, Aaron, which does not reflect well upon you.

    Not a path to God, to be sure.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  161. @AaronB

    ‘…Absolutely, we have our evil people. Difference is, we also have our good people, and the establishment and our majority are behind our good people.

    Who is the establishment and the majority behind among the Palestinians? Where are the Palestinians who aborted a mission because of civilian casualties lol? The question, is, obviously, nonsensical. They target civilians…’

    It’s almost clinically interesting to observe how Aaron demonizes the Palestinians.

    Note that although there are two million Palestinians living in Israel proper, and thousands more enter every day to work, it has been over two years since an actual Jewish civilian has been killed within Israel proper.

    …yet the majority are constantly lusting for blood. Missing what must be literally millions of opportunities a day, somehow.

    One starts to get a sense of what it would have been like to talk to an Einsatzgruppe member in 1941. Basically, Aaron — only perhaps more direct.

    Of course, since they are fiends in human form, it’s quite alright for the Jews to murder them as they see fit. One starts to see how this works.

    • Replies: @renfro
  162. FB says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) is one of the six principal organs of the United Nations (UN),[1] charged with ensuring international peace and security,[2] accepting new members to the United Nations[3] and approving any changes to its charter.[4]

    Its powers include the establishment of peacekeeping operations and international sanctions as well as the authorization of military actions through resolutions – it is the only body of the United Nations with the authority to issue binding resolutions to member states.

    United Nations Security Council

    In short the entire authority of the UN and the weight of international law rests with the UNSC…this is basic information about the postwar world order we live in…there is nothing to debate…

    That’s why the five permanent members that each have veto power are the big victors of the war…they agreed on the global legal system…

  163. @Reg Cæsar

    The Jews in the Old Testament and when Jesus lived were Caucasians.

    Modern day Jews are miscegenated. Here’s an interesting youtube on “Jews of color.”

    https://www.centralsynagogue.org/worship/sermons/detail/moses-married-a-cushite-woman-recognizing-the-many-colors-of-the-jewish-com

    Angela Buchdahl is not the Western idea of a Yiddische Mommy.

  164. Anyway, it’s anecdotal, but here’s our last killing in Palestine.

    ”A Palestinian child who was riding his bicycle near his village in the southern part of the West Bank was hit by an unknown Israeli settler and killed on Monday.
    Tariq Zebania, 7 years old, was from Tarqumia, west of Hebron, and was riding his bicycle by the settlement road near his town. He was struck by a car driven by an Israeli settler who headed into the ‘Adhoura’ settlement after hitting the boy.’

    These aren’t accidental — either that or Jews are incredibly bad drivers.

    ‘…Local sources report that no efforts were made by the Israeli authorities to apprehend the driver who killed the boy.’

    Of course not. It’s not actually a crime to kill a Palestinian in Israel, is it, Aaron?

  165. FB says: • Website
    @AaronB

    Palestinians hurt themselves more than they hurt Israelis with this – they cannot have a successful society until they address the moral rot that is at the core of their culture.

    You’re a very very sick DORK

    You talk about Palestinians targeting ‘civilians’…with what bottle rockets…?

    Meanwhile Israeli attacks on Gaza [like Operation Cast Lead]…employ a massive, modern killing machine that results in hundreds of lives taken overnight…

    When was the last suicide bombing in Israel…it was in 2008…eleven years ago…since then Israel has butchered hundreds upon hundreds…almost all totally unarmed and incapable of resistance…many of them children…

    The IDF is the world’s most COWARDLY military…

    In fact it doesn’t even deserve to be called a military…it is a modern day Schutzstaffel…full of psychopaths and sadists…

    You…who have shown yourself repeatedly on this forum as a completely unbalanced DORK…have just showed us non-Israelis how these ongoing crimes just keep continuing…because ‘people’ like you justify the unjustifiable…

    You can rationalize any horrror…any outrage that is beneath and beyond human comprehension…

    You blame the victim, just like Nazis blamed you Jews while slaughtering you…

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  166. Talha says:

    The Jews in the Old Testament and when Jesus lived were Caucasians.

    Da Old Time Joos:

    We wuz Semytes ‘n sheeeiit!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Violetta
  167. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    SHLOMO BEN-AMI: Well, the Clinton parameters say the following. They say that on the territorial issue, the Palestinians will get 100% of Gaza, 97% of the West Bank, plus safe passage from Gaza to the West Bank to make the state viable. There will be a land swap. The 97%, which I mentioned, takes into account the land swap, where they will get 3% on this side, within the state of Israel, so we will have the blocks of settlements and they will be able to settle refugees on this side of the border.
    About Jerusalem, it says what is Jewish is Israeli, and what is Palestinian is -— sorry, and what is Arab is Palestinian. It includes full-fledged sovereignty for the Palestinians on Temple Mount, on the Haram al-Sharif, no sovereignty, no Jewish sovereignty on the Haram al-Sharif, which was at the time and continues to be a major, major problem for Israelis and Jews, that these things mean to them a lot. And then, with the question of refugees, it says that the refugees will return to historic Palestine, to historical Palestine, and that Israel will maintain its sovereign right of admission. That is, it will have to absorb a number of refugees but with restrictions that need to be negotiated between the parties. But the bulk of the refugees will be allowed to return to the state of Palestine. This is the essence of the Clinton parameters.

    https://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_shlomo_ben

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AnonStarter
  168. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    This is from wiki –

    It appears the Palestinians demanded the right of return to Israel proper of all refugees, but gave verbal assurances they would try and channel many elsewhere – without committing to success in this or guaranteeing it.

    At Camp David, the Palestinians maintained their traditional demand that the right of return be implemented. They demanded that Israel recognize the right of all refugees who so wished to settle in Israel, but to address Israel’s demographic concerns, they promised that the right of return would be implemented via a mechanism agreed upon by both sides, which would try to channel a majority of refugees away from the option of returning to Israel.[20] According to U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, some of the Palestinian negotiators were willing to privately discuss a limit on the number of refugees who would be allowed to return to Israel.[21] Palestinians who chose to return to Israel would do so gradually, with Israel absorbing 150,000 refugees every year.

    The Israeli negotiators denied that Israel was responsible for the refugee problem, and were concerned that any right of return would pose a threat to Israel’s Jewish character. In the Israeli proposal, a maximum of 100,000 refugees would be allowed to return to Israel on the basis of humanitarian considerations or family reunification. All other people classified as Palestinian refugees would be settled in their present place of inhabitance, the Palestinian state, or third-party countries. Israel would help fund their resettlement and absorption. An international fund of $30 billion would be set up, which Israel would help contribute to, along with other countries, that would register claims for compensation of property lost by Palestinian refugees and make payments within the limits of its resources.[22]

  169. Miro23 says:
    @JNDillard

    … get the Pentagon to attack Iran, all bets are off. I don’t think such a war is capable of being contained, because Iran can and will take out US and allied assets throughout the Gulf region, probably precipitating nuclear retaliation.

    The US is moving its forces into the Gulf with a view to air strikes. This seems to be the game plan – to destroy Iranian infrastructure, the same as Iraq infrastructure was destroyed. Iran is better prepared than Iraq and has more effective air defense. Also, the US commitment to new ME wars is weaker now (seeing how the other ME wars have turned out).

    A failed US air war could turn nuclear but this couldn’t be entered into lightly (even for Trump).

    Europe (apart from the UK) would conclusively dump the US. They are already looking for ways to disentangle themselves from the US politically and economically. Russia and China would do the same. The present day US only gets by, through its world economic hegemony, which is nearer the “dry up and blow away” stage than it’s given credit for.

    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.”

    Binyamin Netanyahu

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  170. FB says: • Website
    @renfro

    Again…it is beside the point…UN general assembly resolutions are NOT BINDING…

    Only UNSC resolutions are…and those have affirmed the 1949 borders…like it or not Israel is legally entitled to its pre 1967 borders…that’s not in dispute…

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  171. renfro says:
    @Colin Wright

    It’s almost clinically interesting to observe how Aaron demonizes the Palestinians.

    Its good he does it…..its useful for us to have the comments of a typical jew/Israeli to show people.
    Once in a while when some friends come over for pre dinner cocktails and politics comes up I show them comments on this site. …….the Jews don’t look so good to them when the see comments by the Israel trolls . I guess I am contributing to anti-Semitism…..but its their own fault…I am innocent I tell you!….. cause I belong to the ancient chosen white man Christian Crusaders and we can do no wrong!….even if I am doing wrong its still the Jews fault for making me be mean cause they hate me just because I am a Gentile…..so there!

  172. @AaronB

    ‘And how would the Palestinian public react to videotaping the murder in cold blood of Israeli children?

    Do you understand the difference here…’

    Sure I understand the difference here.

    You’re comparing the hypothetical murder of a child to the actual murder of an adult. You’re also comparing the hypothetical reaction of an oppressed people to the actual reaction of their oppressors.

    I also know that in actual fact, there was widespread outrage that the Jew who actually murdered someone was tried at all, that he received an absurdly light sentence, and that he was greeted as a hero upon his release.

    Do you have a point? Maybe you feel the US should stop sending F-35’s to the Palestinian air force? Perhaps we shouldn’t have given all those standing ovations to Nasrallah?

    Are you conducting black propaganda for Hamas? If so, I gotta admit: it’s working.

    • Replies: @Talha
  173. JNDillard says:

    Interesting quote from Netanyahu, that. I wonder if his pals Kushner and Trump have seen that?

  174. @Miro23

    ‘…Europe (apart from the UK) would conclusively dump the US. They are already looking for ways to disentangle themselves from the US politically and economically. Russia and China would do the same…’

    Given how the Democrats are talking themselves into deep left field, I think Trump knows there are only two ways he’s likely to lose in 2020: (1) if the economy tanks, or (2) if he starts a war with Iran.

    The question is whether he has any choice about starting a war with Iran. I’m not sure how good a grip Israel has on his testicles. He seems to be trying to finesse not actually doing anything, but he may wind up pushing Iran too far.

    Of course, ultimately that war with Iran winds up with us finally pulling the plug on Israel. So unpleasant as it will be for all concerned, maybe we should just go ahead and lance that boil and get it over with. Start our disastrous war with Iran, come out as a still-large-but-no-longer dominant power, and see an end to the Zionist entity.

    Whatever the risks, it’s hard to see how waiting makes them go away.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  175. Violetta says:
    @Talha

    Don’t be facetious – the racial make-up of the ancient Israelites is no trivial matter. Besides, the term “semite” refers to a linguistic group, not an ethnical or racial one.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

    • Replies: @Talha
  176. @DESERT FOX

    As Paul C Roberts pointed out, this welfare given to Israel is used to control US politicians through bribes and threats. If the welfare is cut off and the Likudniks have to dig into their own pockets for “campaign contributions” (aka bribes), all they would have left are threats.

    Removing the carrot from the equation would leave them with only the stick and that would cause immediate pushback from politicians.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
  177. @RadicalCenter

    Without the US military, Israel would have nothing to use in negotiations. Israel would simply fold, becoming a non-nation community in a region where Jews are a minority. That would suit me fine.

  178. @Colin Wright

    Nah. The Israelites didn’t come from here, for the most part. They came from Europe. The crimes you say are ours weren’t committed by Americans, but by Israelites in America. If any atonement is due, let the Israelites return to Europe and atone for their invasion of Europe by mideastern muslims.

    They broke it, let them fix it, on their own dime using their own blood and money. The USA has more than enough Israelites as it is.

    • Replies: @Talha
  179. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    If I recall, the vast majority of Palestinians opposed the killing of a settler family in their sleep some years ago:
    “Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called the attack “despicable, immoral and inhuman.” The poll found 63 percent opposed the attack and 32 percent backed it.”
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053251,00.html

    Was there a baby killed since then?

    I do remember a few years back some Israeli settlers celebrated the burning of a Palestinian toddler in an arson attack, but it was also condemned by most Israelis and their leadership:

    Have there been more attacks on women and kids by Palestinians since that earlier attack?

    Peace.

  180. @AaronB

    Oy vey, Aaron …

    1. You originally lied about the start of the 2000 intifada, which began only after Israel stole land, destroyed homes and shot dead protestors at Aqsa. You attempt to place the blame entirely on Palestinians, when it was Israel who initiated hostilities.

    2. When I exposed your lie, you then shifted the goalposts by mentioning the subject of refugee return, essentially confirming that it was the Israeli public and not the Palestinians who were to blame for the breakdown of talks at Taba.

    Now let’s humor you and pursue your new goalposts. From your DN transcript link:

    Norman Finkelstein: … Now, Dr. Ben-Ami will surely agree that the Palestinians were not demanding and never demanded the full return of six million refugees. He gives a figure of 4-800,000. In fact – I’m not going to get into the numbers, because it’s very hard to pin it down — other authors have given figures of the tens of thousands to 200,000 refugees returning. That’s well short of six million.

    4-800,000 hovers around 10% of six million. Ten percent.

    And, according to your wiki link, Israel was willing to absorb only 50,000 less per year than originally proposed by Arafat. There is nothing in that link about Arafat not “committing to success in this or guaranteeing” the placement of remaining refugees elsewhere. That’s just more hasbara on your behalf.

    I’d provide a lot more that would decisively demolish the Potemkin facade you construct here, but there’s actually little need for it. You see, Aaron, we can turn back the calendar all the way to Ahad Ha’am and the late 19th century, when it was evident that Herzl’s foot soldiers had no intention of peaceful co-existence with Arabs indigenous to the land. Their intent to displace this population has been confirmed by copious documentation, it’s what precipitated all the riots of the early 20 century. In short, your people have been on a war footing from the very beginning of the modern zionist project.

    When you insist on waging war, you get nothing but war in return. As such, your complaints about what happens to illegal occupiers of land whom you dishonestly call “civilians” ring hollow. You don’t think they’re illegal? Well, that’s because you’ve discarded international law, which merely confirms you want to impose your own standards of law and to hell with everything else. In other words, you invite war upon yourselves and have nobody but yourselves to blame for it.

    And, just in case you’ve forgotten, many empires were exceedingly “successful” in their time, not a single one of whose leadership predicated their administration upon God-consciousness. God gave them just enough rope, and the rest is, as they say, history — into the dustbin and consigned to the realm of morality plays.

    And the contemporary polity of Israel, for all of its posturing, is merely enjoying the high life just before the final act.

    Enjoy it while it lasts.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Talha
    , @Colin Wright
  181. @FB

    /like it or not Israel is legally entitled to its pre 1967 borders…that’s not in dispute…/

    Uh … Yes, it is.

    https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/

    Before a final agreement upon the status of Palestine could be reached at the U.N., Israel unilaterally declared statehood, thereafter commencing to ethnically “cleanse” Palestine of most of its Arab inhabitants.

    And that is not in dispute.

    • Replies: @FB
  182. Talha says:
    @Twodees Partain

    They came from Europe.

    That was definitely the original settler stock since the entire enterprise was really a secular ethno-nationalist dream of atheist European Jews. If you read their remarks, they were extremely pissed off at the Jews in places like Egypt and Iraq were dismissive of their plans; “Nah, we’re good here, thanks!”

    Though, eventually, the Jews from all over the Middle East and Africa ended up in Israel (thanks to the short-sighted actions of Arab secular ethno-nationalists).

    “The majority of the world’s Jewish population are Ashkenazim, tracing their ancestry to Europe, In Israel, Sephardic Jews, who descend from communities in the Middle East and North Africa, account for just over half (52%) of the Jewish population.“
    https://cija.ca/resource/israel-the-basics/demographics-of-israel/

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  183. Talha says:
    @Violetta

    Yeah it was a joke – basically making fun of post #173.

    Peace.

  184. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    And, just in case you’ve forgotten, many empires were exceedingly “successful” in their time, not a single one of whose leadership predicated their administration upon God-consciousness. God gave them just enough rope, and the rest is, as they say, history — into the dustbin and consigned to the realm of morality plays

    .

    Are you prepared to admit, then, that the Muslim conquest of the Middle East did not rest on superior moral qualities than their adversaries?

    I would disagree. The early Muslims clearly exhibited superior moral qualities, both towards their enemies, and since it is all intertwined, towards themselves.

    I do not think these early Muslim commanders abandoned their men in the field.

    All successful large scale operations depend on superior moral qualities. Even the Roman empire demonstrated extraordinary moral and spiritual qualities at first.

    The extraordinary creation of Israel, and its ability to flourish and prevail, are due to its superiority qualities compared to their foes.

    If Israel disappears, it will be because we have lost our moral fiber, and God will abandon us. Perhaps that will happen one day, in the fullness of time and as the wheel turns.

    But at the moment, all trends are in the other direction.

    Failing to recognize this merely prolongs the moral morass the Muslim world finds itself in, for so long now.

    Talha is quite honest about the negative moral predicament of the Muslim world, and correctly attributes the setbacks that afflict it to this – you would do well to follow his lead.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Colin Wright
  185. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    As such, your complaints about what happens to illegal occupiers of land whom you dishonestly call “civilians” ring hollow. You don’t think they’re illegal?

    Yes, the occupation zone is effectively a military conflict area an Palestinians have every right to oppose it, even with violence.

    That means military age males in the zone are fair game (which most settlers realize and are armed). But the lives of women and children are inviolable, even in the midst of a battle so they cannot be targeted for sure and proper caution must be taken to avoid harming them.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Colin Wright
  186. @Colin Wright

    I’m under the impression that Aaron thinks he’s addressing an AEI or FDD audience here. You know, the kind that just sit there and reflexively nod their heads upon hearing something that their long since suffocated conscience would otherwise find repellent.

    I can even hear the golf claps as we speak.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  187. @Talha

    /But the lives of women and children are inviolable, even in the midst of a battle so they cannot be targeted for sure and proper caution must be taken to avoid harming them./

    Islamically, yes, but we were referring to secular international law, to which Aaron implicitly appeals when he uses the term “civilian,” claiming such status in an attempt to whitewash the contemporary history of Palestine.

    was-salaam.

  188. @GazaLibre

    The best chance to break out of it is the Hard Left/Islamic alliance – the same that Trump has been trashing lately.

  189. @AaronB

    /Are you prepared to admit, then, that the Muslim conquest of the Middle East did not rest on superior moral qualities than their adversaries?/

    1. You’re conflating morality with martial proficiency. Indeed, it appears to be a fallacy entertained by many people that military success constitutes some kind of incontrovertible “proof” that “God is on our side.” Courage is only admirable when it advances what is good, and there are too many examples of courageous endeavor premised upon worldly objectives to even begin meriting mention.

    2. The egalitarian ethos of Islam was such a draw to those suffering beneath the yoke of proximate polities that they often assisted Muslims in their ascension to political reign. Israel enjoyed no such assistance from those whose land they dispossessed. Apples and oranges.

    Israel is “successful” in what it does because it applies elements of Islam particular to the attainment and preservation of political power — solidarity and self-effacement being among the most important. Such are notably distinct from those elements of Islam it so obviously lacks.

    Millennial world Muslims and their followers lost the knowledge of Islam long ago, but what we’ve witnessed consistently is that when God provides it anew to the goyim, most inhabitants of the House of Israel militate against it — not prayer, nor fasting, nor charity per se, no, but against application of the very science of attaining political strength that Israel wants to claim as its exclusive property. Hence, the concerted effort to outlaw even non-violent movements such as BDS. Anti-revisionist legislation that incarcerates someone merely for having an alternative academic opinion is yet another example, and the litany of lawfare waged by Israel against those who assert their right to self-determination is too extensive to summarize here. It is legion.

    So enjoy your time in the sun, Aaron. Sooner or later, it’ll set and the only light to guide you won’t be the memory of your worldly success.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  190. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    Military success is assuredly evidence of moral qualities developed over time – the high level of social cooperation, trust, dedication, and self sacrifice required cannot exist outside an extremely elevated moral framework.

    Now, you are correct that military power can and often is used for wrong ends – and this usually initiates the process of moral corruption, and ends in loss of military efficiency.

    And you are correct that a particular people enjoying military success may be in this transitional stage towards moral decay, and using up its moral capital so to speak.

    But even that is evidence of recently accumulated moral capital.

    What stage Israel is in, time will tell. I know how the evidence seems to me.

    The egalitarian ethos of Islam was such a draw to those suffering beneath the yoke of proximate polities that they often assisted Muslims in their ascension to political reign. Israel enjoyed no such assistance from those whose land they dispossessed. Apples and oranges.

    This isn’t quite true.

    By any tangible measure, Israel offers far greater political freedom, social freedom, and economic opportunity to Palestinians who live within or at peace with it than they have under the Palestinian authority.

    The Druze who have made a pact with us and serve in the IDF, are treated as brothers and friends. They are allowed to serve in the best and most sensitive units, including pilots, and become generals and commanders of entire brigades (with occasional, and deplorable, exceptions of the kind that bedevil all social relations).

    Conversion to Islam after conquest took decades and centuries, and was accompanied by an element of coercion Israel does not employ. Further, Islam was spread out over the entire area, exerting a gravitational pull tiny Israel cannot quite match yet.

    In the coming decades, may the Palestinians abandon their immoral ambitions and form similar pacts of friendship and brotherhood with us, to the benefit of both of our peoples. Their nationalist aspirations can be satisfied through the 22 Arab states that already cover nearly the whole of the Middle East.

    We would also welcome sincere Palestinian converts who wish to join themselves to our nation and share our fate.

    Federation and pacts of friendship between us are the obvious moral solution – but gaining political dominance, the Palestinian ambition, is off the table.

    May God lead the Palestinians to wisdom soon.

  191. @AaronB

    ‘…If Israel disappears, it will be because we have lost our moral fiber, and God will abandon us. Perhaps that will happen one day, in the fullness of time and as the wheel turns…’

    If Israel disappears, it will be because we here in the US finally pull the plug on it.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  192. @AaronB

    ‘…Their nationalist aspirations can be satisfied through the 22 Arab states that already cover nearly the whole of the Middle East…’

    How about Jews satisfying their national aspirations in the lands they came from?

    For example, in the US, Jews — a minority making up 1.5% of the population — are a third of the justices on the Supreme Court, make up a third of all billionaires, control a wildly disproportionate share of the media, and hold a tenth of all seats in Congress and the Senate.

    Isn’t that enough? Why should you have more? Why do you need to drive an unoffending people from their land — a land most Jews can’t even be bothered to move to?

    The greed, amorality, and complete indifference to the rights of others is utterly sickening.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  193. @AnonStarter

    ‘I’m under the impression that Aaron thinks he’s addressing an AEI or FDD audience here. You know, the kind that just sit there and reflexively nod their heads upon hearing something that their long since suffocated conscience would otherwise find repellent.’

    There is the occasional idiosyncrasy, but basically, he’s regurgitating hasbara talking points.

    One thing that makes me a little wary of continuing to respond to his baiting is that I suspect he’s being paid to do this while we’re not.

  194. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Then how did Israel survive till 1968, in some ways its best military period?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  195. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    How about Jews satisfying their national aspirations in the lands they came from

    Returning to Israel is just that 🙂

    I told you already I do not support Jews who identify primarily as Jewish dominating key institutions in the US.

    Moving to Israel is one very good way – the only good way, unless you wish to kill us – to rectify this.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  196. @Talha

    ‘Yes, the occupation zone is effectively a military conflict area an Palestinians have every right to oppose it, even with violence.

    That means military age males in the zone are fair game (which most settlers realize and are armed). But the lives of women and children are inviolable, even in the midst of a battle so they cannot be targeted for sure and proper caution must be taken to avoid harming them.

    Wa salaam.’

    It’s a fine point, but do you think you should just grant your oppressor the right to move his women and children onto your land in impunity?

    When, during World War Two, the Germans attempted to establish a settlement deep within occupied Poland — at Zamosc — the Polish Home Army looked at this. They realized it couldn’t be tolerated, and they attacked the families, killing the women and children.

    The Germans abandoned the project. No one ever condemned the Polish Home Army.

    If you want the invader to go away, you can’t be polite about it. If you discover a pig eating the apples you’ve harvested, it won’t do any good to politely explain to him that these are your apples.

    You have to smack him on the snout. Make it hurt so bad he goes away and never comes back. If their women and children will be killed at night, the Jews won’t come. Whatever else there is to be said about it, that much is true.

    • Replies: @Talha
  197. @AaronB

    ‘This isn’t quite true.

    ‘By any tangible measure, Israel offers far greater political freedom, social freedom, and economic opportunity to Palestinians who live within or at peace with it than they have under the Palestinian authority.’

    Of course, given that the Palestinian Authority is a body that you yourselves manipulate, fund, staff, and control, the hypocrisy of that statement is spectacular.

    …Honestly. You blockade and starve the Palestinians — then point out how they lack economic opportunity. You murder and imprison their leaders, arrest the representatives they elect, and shut down their radio stations and newspapers — then say they lack political freedom.

    Could you be more hypocritical? Is there some additional twist you can think up?

  198. @AaronB

    ‘Then how did Israel survive till 1968, in some ways its best military period?’

    So let’s pull the plug on it now, and see how it does.

    No aid, no protection in the UN, no license to pillage the rest of the world via organized crime, no sanctioned technology theft and resale…just another Sudan or Myanmar or Paraguay.

    We’ll let Israel sink or swim.

    I don’t think it’ll be around for long. After all, as it is, forty percent of the Jews there say they would emigrate if only they could. You’ll need those walls to keep everybody in.

    But hey. Maybe I’ll be wrong. At least I won’t still be sponsoring the evil.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  199. @AaronB

    ‘Returning to Israel is just that 🙂’

    I warned you about repeating lies.

  200. @AnonStarter

    ‘1. You originally lied about the start of the 2000 intifada, which began only after Israel stole land, destroyed homes and shot dead protestors at Aqsa. You attempt to place the blame entirely on Palestinians, when it was Israel who initiated hostilities.’

    I think we can safely move on from the specific to the general here. As a rule, the following statement is true about Israel:

    ‘1. You originally lied about the start of ______, which began only after Israel stole land, destroyed homes and shot dead _______ at _______. You attempt to place the blame entirely on _________, when it was Israel who initiated hostilities.’

    There. Nicely covers most of the cases, doesn’t it?

    • Agree: AnonStarter
  201. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    I would not have a problem with that, provided that all international actors stay out of the conflict. Just leave the two sides to themselves. Sure.

    American support has been a blessing, but also a huge restraint. If not for the need to to consider American and European sensibilities, I suspect the West Bank would have been fully Israeli, and Jordan would most likely be the Palestinian state. And there would actually be a rough peace prevailing.

    From 1948 to 1967, Israel flourished with no to negligible American support.

    But I don’t think things are going to go in that direction. Instead, the nascent Western nationalisms will form alliances with Israel, against the Muslim world.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  202. @AaronB

    Dearest Aaron … Your obfuscation is not becoming a man of God.

    You’re attempting to redefine what I had meant by “morality,” which, to any given reader, obviously was not referring exclusively to the “social cooperation, trust, dedication, and self sacrifice” of a successful army. Basic, common sense morality, as defined by God, would necessitate that, first and foremost, Israel would have to admit egregious wrongdoing in its willful dispossession of Palestinian land and subsequent mistreatment of its people. This is all a matter of record and yet you prattle on prodigally in plain denial of it, pretending that none of it matters.

    Distilling your argument to its raw substance, you’re essentially saying that success in our worldly life is manifest evidence of success in the next, which is an assertion for which you won’t find any support from God — not in The Torah, nor in The Psalms.

    I wrote

    The egalitarian ethos of Islam was such a draw to those suffering beneath the yoke of proximate polities that they often assisted Muslims in their ascension to political reign. Israel enjoyed no such assistance from those whose land they dispossessed. Apples and oranges.

    You then twist this to mean something completely different from what I originally wrote, ignoring the fact that, from before the time of Ahad Ha’am to the present, Israel has done everything it could to dispossess Palestinians and subjugate them to humiliating living conditions. The only reason it confers limited rights to Arabs on its side of the front lines is that to do otherwise would be scandalous in the eyes of the world, a consideration literally codified in the Talmud.

    But Israel’s veneer is quite thin, as Palestinians on its side of the front will tell you:

    https://www.adalah.org/en

    I also have quite a large collection of evidence proving that Israel is not the idyllic polity for Arabs you would like us to believe it is. Here’s a small sample of some titles I’ve bookmarked:

    Israel’s Arab citizens fight for a roof over their heads
    Israeli city revives historic mission to keep out Arabs
    ‘Every dark skin in Israel is now a target’
    Israeli death penalty for terrorists won’t apply to Jews
    Israel’s war on the Arabic language
    Jewish Syrian, now a Muslim, not allowed to immigrate to Israel
    ‘Hundreds of thousands can’t marry in Israel’
    The Wanted 18: Israel Blocks Palestinian Filmmaker from Making NYC Film Premiere

    That’s just the tip of the proverbial iceberg, Aaron. Here’s a good indication of why Israeli “democracy” has yielded such inequity:

    Major poll: About half of Israeli Jews want to expel Arabs

    Nearly four fifths – 79 percent – of Arab Israelis say there is major discrimination against Muslims in Israeli society. Jews believe the opposite. The vast majority, 74 percent, says they do not see much discrimination against Muslims in Israel.

    … which explains your particular variety of blindness to the matter. And the kicker:

    … public opinion among Jews is divided on the question of whether Israel can be a national home for the Jewish people while maintaining the Arab minority in the country. Nearly half of Israeli Jews, 48 percent, say Arabs should be deported or exiled from Israel. Religious people tend to be particularly supportive of such a move: about 71 percent agree that Arabs should be expelled. [emphasis mine]

    So it appears Jewish religiosity is not quite the foundation for universal liberty that you imagine it to be. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    One final note:

    The PA is about as Islamic as a keg of beer. And I never mentioned “conversion to Islam,” which has always been readily available to anyone at any given time, doesn’t take “decades and centuries,” and was decidedly not “accompanied by an element of coercion.”

    I, too, pray that God will transform us, AaronB. May he make us as those who genuinely know Him and respect Him as He would love to be respected.

    Ameen.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @AaronB
  203. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    but do you think you should just grant your oppressor the right to move his women and children onto your land in impunity?

    We don’t grant any rights – we don’t have the right to grant rights to things such as life. God has granted women and children inviolability through the words of His Messenger (pbuh). In fact, the hadith are transmitted so clearly and through so many chains on this subject that there is no doubt as to the words and some say they have the same weight as any verse of the Qur’an. On top of that, one of the transmissions specifically states that a woman was found killed on the battlefield and he prohibited it in response to this – thus there simply is no room for misunderstanding.

    The only exceptions to this are; 1) if the woman (or child) is armed and attacking (even fleeing women warriors are given protection, unlike the men that can be cut down at will) and 2) women or children killed accidentally and not by any deliberate attempt at their lives.

    You have to understand, the Muslim scholars dealt with these situations centuries ago, so these things are nothing new. Even if the enemy uses his own women and children as shields you have to make an attempt to avoid hitting them.

    Again, we simply do not abide by ends-justifies-the-means and anger is not an excuse:
    “O you who believe, be persistently standing firm for Allah, witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just! That is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah, indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.” (5:8)

    “Beware of the supplication of the oppressed, even if he is an unbeliever, for there is no barrier between it and Allah.” – reported in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad

    And I simply cannot see how a Muslim will be able to answer for something as vile as murdering a child on the Day of Judgment.

    Peace.

  204. FB says: • Website
    @AnonStarter

    Look…I’m not going to waste time on this wrongheaded BS forever…

    Did you actually read the article you linked to…if you had you would know that the GA res 181 was passed on to the Security Council…but the SC never adopted the plan…

    In later UNSC resolutions Israel’s pre 1967 borders are affirmed…so it is settled…

    Again…do not bother me any more with this nonsense…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @AnonStarter
  205. @AaronB

    ‘…From 1948 to 1967, Israel flourished with no to negligible American support…’

    Other than, as noted, several hundred tanks. Shall we go through the rest of Israel’s 1967 arsenal? Half tracks, for example? Artillery, per chance?

    There’s also the minor detail that it’s improbable Israel would have come into being in 1948 at all absent American support.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Colin Wright
    , @Talha
  206. @AnonStarter

    ‘The PA is about as Islamic as a keg of beer. And I never mentioned “conversion to Islam,” which has always been readily available to anyone at any given time, doesn’t take “decades and centuries,” and was decidedly not “accompanied by an element of coercion.”’

    It’s varied; but in the case of the actual Jews of Palestine, the process seems to have been rather the reverse.

    The first Muslim conquerors did not encourage converts. Then, at some point, they ‘opened the books,’ so to speak. This was when the Jewish population of Palestine seems to have taken up Islam and became — along with those who had adopted Christianity — the ancestors of today’s ‘Palestinians.’

    …whom Aaron and his buds so relentlessly grind under foot.

    • Replies: @Talha
  207. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    To change the subject for a moment, if you will allow me –

    I was just in the Barnes and Nobles on Union Square and began leafing through a book on the Quaran by Garry Wills…

    In it he says the Quaran says no People of the Book should convert to any of the other religions of the Book. That a Covenant was given to each people, and that is correct and appropriate to them.

    Christianity seeks to abolish Judaism and become universal – one of the main regrettable sources of tension – but Islam seems to be more narrowly defined as the specific Covenant for a specific people, like Judaism.

    And seems to share the Jewish belief that people outside the faith can find salvation, but even more powerfully, in that no distinction is made in the quality of salvation arising from each Faith – and Judaism definitely makes distinctions in this regard.

    If this is true, this makes Islam at once more liberal and permissive than Christianity, and more restrictive at the same time as a covenant for a specific people – and with regard to Judaism, more liberal in that it makes no distinction in the quality of salvation arising from each Faith, and as restrictive in that covenants are made with specific people.

    If this is true, there seems to be no reason any non-pagan should convert to Islam – it is just one way to God appropriate to one people.

    However, there are clearly senses in which Islam regards itself as superior – I believe Mohammeds revelation supersedes all others when they contradict, and is considered the final and most authoritative. And Muslims are expected to acquire political sovereignty over the earth, and Christian or Jewish land once coming under Islamic rule must remain so forever – clearly suggesting the faiths are hardly equal.

    I imagine there are many other aspects I don’t know.

    This is natural, as a merely Perennial Philosophy style believe in the essential equality of paths to God could not generate much loyalty to a particular tradition…

    So – is any if this correct or is Gary Wills completely mistaken? Or am I misunderstanding?

    I invite any Muslim who so wishes to contribute an answer…

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
    , @Colin Wright
  208. AaronB says:
    @Colin Wright

    The Soviet Union recognized Israel first, and America only a few days later.

    America placed an arms embargo on Israel during the 48 war, and actually stopped Jewish purchased arms shipments.

    As I showed above, American arms only began reaching Israel in the early 60s under Kennedy, who ended the embargo – and only in substantial quantities and for the purpose of maintaining a quantitative edge after the 67 war.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Colin Wright
  209. Miro23 says:
    @JNDillard

    “Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.”
    Binyamin Netanyahu

    Unfortunately, poorly sourced: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/2304897-anti-american-netanyahu-quote-has-been.html

    I can’t see anything wrong with it. Do you need Netanyahu to include this statement in an official speech ?

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060512234448/http://www.onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/092105Madsen/092105madsen.html

    There’s no doubt that Netanyahu wanted Pollard released, but his really interesting private conversations would be the ones regarding 9/11.

  210. @Colin Wright

    My.

    Looking into this further, the 1967 IDF seems to have been a big user of the M3 half track, and their artillery seems to have largely consisted of US 105 and 155 mm pieces.

    No US equipment. No sirree.

  211. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    This idea is reminiscent of the Roman and Greek idea that each people had its own God, but limited to fewer groups.

  212. @FB

    ‘…In later UNSC resolutions Israel’s pre 1967 borders are affirmed…so it is settled…

    Again…do not bother me any more with this nonsense…’

    And yet, you never quote the specific text. Now, if I want to make a point about the Balfour Declaration, say, I quote it.

    • Replies: @FB
  213. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    Actually, the fact that Israel kicked massive butt of those Arab armies shouldn’t surprise anyone. The entire defense of that area was outsourced to the quite capable Ottoman military command. The officer core were extremely capable Turks (at times even officers from the Balkans and at times even borrowing talent from Germany) that led garrisons manned by Turks and Bosnians/Albanians along with Arab auxiliaries. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed, the nascent Arabs were left on their own and without centuries of collective experience of fighting large scale battles against very formidable and modern foes.

    And man, did they crash and burn by that trial by fire.

    Well, at least they got trounced under Arab leadership instead of a Turkish one, so they have that to show for it.

    Now, Arabs have always been quite capable at small unit actions that operate independently in a war of attrition. That is their shtick and they are good at it when they apply it. Lebanon 2006 was a great example.

    My guess; if they really want to win a war against Israel, they are going to have to borrow a command/control structure manned by someone else and be just be willing to do the fighting. Again, they have time for this since containment as been achieved for the foreseeable future.

    Peace.

  214. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    And actual military aid packages, I think, started in 1985, I believe.

  215. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    The first Muslim conquerors did not encourage converts.

    The Rashidun did, but one of the main concerns of men like Caliph Umar (ra) was that the Muslims should be careful to retain their religion and not be so free and easy about mixing it in with others; one of the main reasons so many new garrison towns were established; for instance Kufa and Fustat (that would later sprawl and become Cairo). So the focus was not so much on spreading the religion at that point as much as preserving its foundations from dilution and corruption.

    The Ummayyads did actually have an official policy of discouraging conversions; due to loss in revenue from jizyah.

    Peace.

  216. FB says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    Look you can use google right?…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

    The actual document…

    https://undocs.org/S/RES/242(1967)

    There have been numerous subsequent UNSC resolutions including…338, 1397, 1515, 1850…

    Wow…talk about OBSTINATE…

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  217. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    Scratch that I did some research on Wills it seems he is a virtue signaller in the style of Karen Armstrong and the Perennial Tradition, and not a reliable source.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Colin Wright
  218. AaronB says:
    @AaronB

    I’m embarrassed. Seems Wills just flat out falsified and made stuff up.

    Disregard my comment.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  219. @Colin Wright

    ” Start our disastrous war with Iran, come out as a still-large-but-no-longer dominant power, and see an end to the Zionist entity.”

    Why is it necessary to start a war with Iran in order to dump Israel?

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  220. @Talha

    My point, exactly. Israeli jews didn’t come from the US, with the exception of a relative handful of American born jews who have relocated. it’s foolish to say that they should be allowed to come here if their attempt at world domination fails.

    I can’t agree with Colin that Americans are at fault and owe recompense for Israel’s crimes.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Talha
  221. Talha says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Agreed, if Israel is dissolved, they should be allowed to either remain or granted access back to their ancestral lands throughout the Muslim world. We’ll keep the European imports as well and figure out some quid pro quo – we’re not going to have another situation where we send them all back and then Europe goes on its periodic let’s-boot-out-the-Jews fests and then we got to deal with this bakwas all over again.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  222. @AaronB

    /I’m embarrassed./

    No need for that. There’s both truth and falsehood in there, but I personally prefer going straight to The Qur’an, which is usually clear enough as it is.

    Islam certainly permits Muslims to make treaties. Some reasonably question the extent to which those treaties may be made, and they have valid points, though it’s worth remembering that Umar, who endured great tribulation at the hands of Jewish tribes, nevertheless made possible the peaceful restoration of Jews to Jerusalem.

    The early generation made a concerted effort to understand their subject population and administrate them equitably in accordance with that understanding. As Talha earlier mentioned, corruption set in within a generation and we’ve seen nothing but terminal collapse since.

    But it’s not as though the Arabs didn’t see it coming. They knew, just as did Jews, that Islam would not be theirs for long, though, just as Jews, they did their best to “keep it in the family,” which is why so many non-Arabs still think they need an Arab or one of their similitude to understand Islam when, in fact, they don’t. Yes, God chose Arabic and our Prophet sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam, but Islam at its core remains a matter of conduct, and in this, anyone can be Muslim, because prayer at its core is a pleading of the heart, one that cannot be divorced from the soul.

    May our prayer, as such, be wise, a humble entreaty for what is both certainly good and everlasting.

    Ameen.

  223. @FB

    /but the SC never adopted the plan … In later UNSC resolutions Israel’s pre 1967 borders are affirmed…/

    And since it occurred without due process, that affirmation is ultra vires.

    But I’ll leave you to imagine otherwise.

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @FB
  224. @Twodees Partain

    ‘Why is it necessary to start a war with Iran in order to dump Israel?’

    It’s necessary because the scales need to fall from our eyes — or be knocked from them.

    A catastrophic war with Iran should have that effect.

    Mind, so would a Sixty Minutes segment — but we’re not going to get that, so we’ll just have to do this the hard way.

    • Agree: Iris
  225. @AaronB

    ‘The Soviet Union recognized Israel first, and America only a few days later.

    Oh — but who got the Partition Declaration passed?

    …but you know perfectly well that’s the point. You’re just evading it.

    ‘America placed an arms embargo on Israel during the 48 war, and actually stopped Jewish purchased arms shipments.’

    See below. You’ll pardon me if I don’t follow this one up.

    As I showed above, American arms only began reaching Israel in the early 60s under Kennedy, who ended the embargo – and only in substantial quantities and for the purpose of maintaining a quantitative edge after the 67 war.’

    We just showed the Israelis had already received more than a hundred modern tanks from the US. When I looked further, I found a reference to Israel deploying six battalions of US artillery for just one battle in 1967.

    You were lying, and now you’re still lying.

  226. @FB

    ‘Look you can use google right?…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

    The actual document…

    And I go, and…

    Lookit that! No reference to what Israel’s legal boundaries might be (probably not at all inadvertently).

    Just the demand that she withdraw from the further territories she just seized.

    It seems to me that the only set of legal boundaries Israel has are still those laid out in the 1947 UN Partition Declaration. At any rate, you’ve yet to produce anything superseding those.

    • Replies: @FB
  227. @Talha

    ‘Agreed, if Israel is dissolved, they should be allowed to either remain or granted access back to their ancestral lands throughout the Muslim world. ‘

    There are many potentially just and reasonably equitable solutions. Israel, for example, could become an actual egalitarian democracy, with the franchise extended to all those under her rule, regardless of religion, and equal opportunities for promotion within the military and police, cabinet rank, the judiciary. A confession-blind immigration policy, etc. You know — like a modern Western state.

    …or it could just be disbanded.

    …or it could even withdraw to its legal boundaries. After all, legally, that is supposed to be a Jewish state — with equal rights and security of property for the non-Jews within it, of course.

    Lots of possibilities — just not the mini-Nazi wet dream that’s currently in place.

  228. FB says: • Website
    @AnonStarter

    And since it occurred without due process…

    Obviously you are profoundly fucking retarded…what part of the legal authority of UNSC resolutions do you not understand…?

    A UNSC resolution IS due process…in fact it is the supreme authority of international law…I have provided several relevant links…but you prefer to shoot diarrhea BEFORE actually informing your silly ass…

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  229. @AaronB

    ‘Scratch that I did some research on Wills it seems he is a virtue signaller in the style of Karen Armstrong and the Perennial Tradition, and not a reliable source.’

    Nothing quite like reading the Quran to know what’s in the Quran.

    It perpetually disgusts me how few people do that. It’s not hard to obtain. It’s not particularly obscure. It’s not particularly long.

  230. @AaronB

    ‘To change the subject for a moment, if you will allow me –

    I was just in the Barnes and Nobles on Union Square and began leafing through a book on the Quaran by Garry Wills…’

    And here I was thinking you lived in Israel.

    You’re not another one of those Zionists who isn’t about to move to Zion himself, are you?

  231. FB says: • Website
    @Colin Wright

    Well you can imagine what you wish…it’s clear I’m dealing with a nitwit here…

    The 1947 UN partition plan was never adopted by the UNSC…so it means diddly…

    The UNSC resolution 242 does not need to explicitly spell out borders…it demands withdrawal back to the 1949 borders…until that resolution came along the question of borders could have remained an open subject…but since 242 says to get back to 1949 borders…that is implicit in the territory that constitutes LEGAL Israel…in the eyes of the UNSC…

    • Troll: Colin Wright
  232. @Talha

    ‘…My guess; if they really want to win a war against Israel, they are going to have to borrow a command/control structure manned by someone else and be just be willing to do the fighting. Again, they have time for this since containment as been achieved for the foreseeable future.’

    How many wars did the African National Congress win against South Africa? How many battles did the Algerian FLN win against France? In Viet Nam, the largest US unit ever overrun was a company.

    This struggle won’t be won militarily. In fact, I kind of like watching Israel keep dumping more and more money and resources into more and more advanced weapons in an attempt to assuage her gnawing sense of insecurity.

    That sense of insecurity comes from a consciousness of her own deficiencies as a nation and the immorality of her position. No number of F-35’s will address that. Indeed, all those arms merely serve as symbols of US support for Israel. We could ship her state-of-the-art toasters and all she would have to do would be to pretend. The effect would be the same.

  233. @Talha

    ‘…Again, they have time for this since containment as been achieved for the foreseeable future.’

    That strikes me as a tad optimistic. Iraq? Syria? Iran? Not to mention Israel getting her hooks into Egypt and Saudi Arabia. She’s always trying to work up the nerve to go after Lebanon again as well.

    I don’t think Israel’s contained at all. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if she starts lashing out more as her fundamental situation continues to deteriorate. She’ll need the US to prove she truly loves her, if nothing else. Show her you really care…say it with dead Americans.

    …if that place was an individual, we could get it institutionalized.

    • Replies: @Talha
  234. @Talha

    ‘‘…My guess; if they really want to win a war against Israel, they are going to have to borrow a command/control structure manned by someone else and be just be willing to do the fighting. Again, they have time for this since containment as been achieved for the foreseeable future.’’

    Another objection to this is you don’t win a war by fighting it on your enemy’s terms. If I’m going to fight the reigning Golden Gloves champion, maybe I’ll pick something other than boxing.

    Israel obsessively keeps building the largest, most formidably armed conventional force possible: state of the art battle tanks, the latest US fighters, anti-missile systems. Moreover, she’s got the whole US Military-Industrial complex slaved to her needs. …and don’t even think about the electronics.

    …so it’s foolish to start trying to win the war she wants to fight. Go where she isn’t, not where she is.

    Viet Nam didn’t beat the US by fighting America’s war. The Arabs won’t beat Israel by fighting her war.

    • Agree: Talha
  235. @FB

    Well, it’s quite possible I don’t understand something, but your lack of basic civility isn’t very persuasive, even if you’re in the right.

    In your correspondence with Colin, you imply that the ’49 Armistice Agreement established borders:

    The UNSC resolution 242 does not need to explicitly spell out borders…it demands withdrawal back to the 1949 borders…

    First, there is no mention of 1949 borders in the text of the resolution. But, arguendo, let’s take your word at face value.

    Now the question is, what part of the ’49 AA transforms the armistice demarcation line into a political or territorial boundary?

    And, if it isn’t too much trouble, try keeping it clean this time. Otherwise, we’re done.

    • Replies: @FB
  236. @Talha

    ‘When the Ottoman Empire collapsed, the nascent Arabs were left on their own and without centuries of collective experience of fighting large scale battles against very formidable and modern foes.

    And man, did they crash and burn by that trial by fire.’

    Just to be inconsistent with my previous posts, it’s worth pointing out that the best fighting force in 1948 wasn’t actually the Haganah, but Jordan’s Arab Legion.

    It had been recently expanded, but the core was a British-officered force that had been in existence for twenty years or so.

    …and it did very well. In fact, Israel may have only been saved by the fact that the Arab Legion did depend on Britain for artillery ammunition, and Britain embargoed any resupply of 25 pounder shells.

    • Replies: @Talha
  237. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    I meant militarily contained int the sense that I don’t see another invasion like what they did in Lebanon in the 80’s.

    But to me, that means actually that the US is not contained and that Israel uses the US to do the smashing for her – she doesn’t seem capable of doing it herself anymore like before (again, see Lebanon 2006).

    Peace.

  238. FB says: • Website
    @AnonStarter

    No you didn’t read my comment…I never said nor implied the 1949 armistice constituted some kind of official border…but after UNSC 242 which IMPLICITLY did recognize that demarcation…that’s when it DID became legal…

    Look you people need to educate yourselves…the recognition of Israel’s pre 1967 border is no secret…this is becoming very tedious…

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  239. Iris says:

    More on AngloZionist “invincibility” in the Middle-East which explains why nobody bothers attending Kushner’s conference:

    “IRGC Releases Footage Refuting Trump’s Claims about Downing Iranian Drone – Video”


    https://english.almanar.com.lb/786469

  240. Talha says:
    @Colin Wright

    a British-officered force

    There you go.

    Peace.

  241. @FB

    All right, then.

    Well, even if 242 implicitly recognized demarcation, I don’t see how such recognition transforms the armistice line into a border. We’ll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

    But I thank you for honoring my request. Much appreciated.

  242. Though the author makes some very salient points in his piece, he also made a very glaring error in his analysis by failing to look at the very map he used to headline his article.

    Anyone with half a brain can see that “Resistance is futile”, as the famed deep-space Borg Collective would often inform the peoples of its next point of absorption…

    Militarily, to resist, even a greater foe, one must have some level of substantial, alternative options that can be effectively deployed against the aggressor. The Palestinians have absolutely none.

    Though the pathetic Kushner Plan is also not in any way a viable option for the Palestinians to accept, the author’s contentions as to how they could continue to resist their Israeli Overlords is based on assumptions that he presents little credible evidence in support of. The author’s contentions and recommendations are merely based on his own analysis of the situation and the subsequent conjecture that can be applied to it.

    For the Palestinians to win, they must do something that would change their own battlefield as standard military, tactical axioms would suggest. This would mean to initiate a plan that would do the unthinkable; offer the Israeli government the opportunity to work with the Palestinians to relocate them to a regional nation that would allow them to enter, find gainful employment, decent health care, and a much needed respite from the horrendous lives they have been up to this point forced to endure.

    What will happen to Israel under such a plan? Eventually it will increase the speed at which Israeli society will simply implode into itself.

    Lets look at why…

    On the one hand, Israeli society is becoming more totalitarian in a religious way as the Orthodoxy in that country are increasingly gaining political influence. Such Orthodox influence in government, historically will also increasingly make Israel an irrational nation, which it is already but even more so as such influence comes to manipulate critical decision making for the future of that country.

    On another level, we have the settler\colonizers who are the forefront of the operations to resettle annexed and occupied territories. These people make the Orthodox groups look almost sane by comparison as the settlers are all messianic to a person.

    As a result, you have two very strong groups in Israel that are both categorically nuts.

    Many well educated Israelis have already left the country or are in the process of doing so. This has and will cause a serious “brain drain” on Israeli society and is one of the primary factors in the extreme political nature of the country that has come about in the last decade. This aspect of Israeli society has already been well documented over the years.

    Politically and to a certain extent financially, the United States is a sinking ship. Unlike the Titanic of years gone by, the US has yet to its iceberg but it is definitely in the path of the US ship of state.

    At lower levels of the US political infrastructure you have many people who are slowly turning against Israel and the pandering to Israel many of its loony politicians force down everyone’s throats through the mass media. Over time this growing reticence to accept such homage to this tiny state will most likely grow into a policy to abort such handouts.

    Sociologically, the American Jewish Community is in decline as increasingly many marry out of the faith while the younger members of this community are increasingly losing interest in Israel itself and its constant promotions of their Holocaust.

    What I am trying to demonstrate with the previous points (and there are others that can be added), is that time is on the side of the Palestinians who need to have the courage and the fortitude to wait out the current deprivations of the Israeli state.

    They must institute a viable and orderly retreat instead of attempting to go on the offensive or skirmish with the current forces that the Israeli state can bring to bear.

    The Zionists believe they have the entire world eating out of their hands. Well, they are wrong and there are symptoms everywhere that demonstrate the falseness of such a notion. Then again Zionists may be highly organized and well financed, but they are also at increasing odds with the way the world is changing.

    Now let us assume that Iran opens its doors to the Palestinians, which would be the best option for them now, this does something for them that they could never hope to attain in their present circumstances; they will be aligned with a growing world power center who has no use or need for Israel.

    Though many have seen some of President Putin’s political moves in regards to what appear to be favoring Israel, there is just as much documentation demonstrating that such moves are merely to placate this troublesome nation until US weakness becomes so apparent that something more forthright can be done with it.

    Anyone who has followed President Putin’s long history as a Russian head of state could see that he is a highly practical and honorable man who would not be interested in making any type of alliance with Israel let alone put Russia into the same situation with Israel that US disreputable politicians have voluntarily done over the decades. And I am sure that he well understands how Israeli operatives in the US have been able to compromise the many levels of the US political infrastructure.

    With a Palestinian relocation to Iran or some other nation willing to take them in and give them a dignified life, Israel will lose the one thing it needs to most to now survive; someone to beat up and lord it over. Israel has become so used to occupying and depriving the Palestinians of what are rightfully theirs under international norms that there is good chance that Israeli society would have no idea how to proceed once peace is brought to their immediate environs. After 70 years, Israeli sociology has changed to a point where it relies on the Palestinians to make them feel superior as their Talmud has encouraged them to feel.

    True, Israel will continue to exist for some time after a Palestinian relocation but as the world becomes increasingly aware of what had happened over so many years, it is doubtful in the long term that this pathetic excuse for a nation will be able to survive without making its own reparations to the world. However, by then who knows if anything but the craziest of Jewish Sects will even exist by then. None of them offer anything to society no matter where they may reside. Such sects often experience high levels of unemployment and near poverty and this is true even for these sects in Israel. Even now there is still an uproar over a bill that would require their younger members to serve in the IDF.

    The Palestinians need to move on to get their lives back, revitalize their sociology, culture, and health, not spend the rest of eternity fighting for what they cannot currently win…

    Nothing lasts forever and neither will Israel. At some point in the future the Palestinians will be able to return to their homeland and reclaim what they have lost. But the time is not now…

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  243. Iris says:

    Nothing lasts forever and neither will Israel. At some point in the future the Palestinians will be able to return to their homeland and reclaim what they have lost. But the time is not now…

    Thanks for your very interesting comment.

    In his last interview to Al Manar news outlet, Hezbollah’s Hassan Nasrallah voiced confidence that the resistance will deal Israel a terrible defeat in the future war, voicing big hopes that he will be among those who will pray in Jerusalem during their lifetime.

    https://english.almanar.com.lb/781783

    • Replies: @Steve Naidamast
  244. @Iris

    Iris…

    Thank you for your note. Please know that I want very much to see the Palestinians receive their long deserved justice. However, my concept is to save the people as the land will always be there to be reclaimed.

    I found this comment very interesting from Sayyed Nasrallah in the interview you posted the link to…

    “In this regard, Sayyed Nasrallah noted that no Arab state can bear the repercussions of the ‘deal of the century since the deal means the explicit abandoning of the nation’s holy sites.”

    I don’t believe the article here mentions such a serious point of contention.

    I have been following the Hezbollah military build-up for quite some time along with other military developments in the region and Sayyed Nasrallah is correct to state that the IDF land forces are very much in decline. This was explained by a former US Army sergeant that did liaison work in Israel during one of his assignments and found the Israeli Army quite amateurish. he said that this was highlighted by the fact that it has no career NCOs, which are the backbone of knowledge and skills in any army. As a result, he found that most of the soldiers, who are just citizen soldiers to be lacking in many standard soldiering skills…

    • Replies: @Iris
  245. @anonymous

    I saw that interview with Judy Woodruff and in all fairness to Ms. Woodruff, I could see the discomfort in her mannerisms as a result of having to interview such a cretin.

    From the look of it, I don’t think she wanted to do this interview already knowing how she had to handle it but working for NPR she is under certain restrictions as to what she can do in such situations…

  246. @Miggle

    /Islam cannot tolerate separation of Church and State, or freedom of religion, because it must be the hegemon./

    I can understand why some have been led to believe this, and, as a Muslim myself, I will be the first to say that we are our own worst enemies. This, however, is easy to acknowledge in that we know every man to be his own worst enemy.

    The Qur’an, in its entirety, is — to paraphrase Colin Wright — a relatively short read. There are certain to be passages that are obscure. God Himself tells us up front that we needn’t pursue allegories unclear to us. The rest is clear. Problem solved.

    In The Qur’an, God doesn’t say anything about separation of Church and State, though it does say “No compulsion in religion,” and prior to the arrival of The Prophet in Medina, there was nothing in the world akin to his federation of disparate religious and tribal communities, all of whom were entitled to freedom of worship and adjudication of their affairs according to the laws of their sacred tradition. The Constitution of Medina is also an authentic primary source of ours, one which provides details confirming the foundation of the world’s first constitutional federal republic.

    For its time, it was unprecedented, and don’t imagine that neighboring polities and their subjects didn’t get the news of it. Some of them were part of religious orders whose predecessor patriarchs had been waiting for it for generations. In any event, we Muslims don’t distinguish between religion and worship because to do so would be to entertain a false dilemma. Your religion is no more than how you worship, and worship is about you live. A Muslim attains true mastery when his life becomes no more than a prayer to God.

    And Islam does fairly well in America, where it is most certainly not “the hegemon.” Oh, sure … there are some Genghis Khan wannabes who, as you read, ruminate about raising the flag of the Caliphate over the White House, though you can rest assured that just about every Islamic center on the map has at least one agent gathering intelligence on the ground and elsewhere. Many times imams and shuyukh themselves willingly establish a working relationship with law enforcement agencies. There’s a lot more correspondence than the average American is aware of.

    Muslim Americans have to put up with as much bigotry as the average person bearing a skin tone half a shade darker than alabaster, if even this much. It’s only when they walk the walk, presenting themselves with kufi, beard and jalabiya, or full niqab, that you can kiss any skin privilege goodbye. Then you’re a bona fides terrorist, no matter how pacific you may be.

    But the alphabet folk know better, which is why we don’t really mind. Heck, they’re welcome to learn if they want.

    Might as well get something useful out of us.

    • Replies: @Miggle
  247. Iris says:
    @Steve Naidamast

    Sayyed Nasrallah is correct to state that the IDF land forces are very much in decline.

    Very correct. The Lebanese increasing military superiority and Israeli unpreparedness have been often mentioned in Israeli media over the past months, and reported accordingly in Arab media.

    In MSM epitome “The Economist”:

    Why some Israeli generals believe their army is not prepared for war

    The military skills of the country’s ground forces have eroded over time.

    https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2018/09/28/why-some-israeli-generals-believe-their-army-is-not-prepared-for-war

    • Replies: @Steve Naidamast
  248. @Iris

    Iris…

    Thank you for the link you provided regarding the IDF’s ground forces preparedness.

    There are a number of reports I have read that basically all say the same thing; the average ground force Israeli grunt is lacking in expertise and hardened combat experience to face off against such a force as Hezbollah, which in military terms would be considered an irregular militia, though highly trained.

    I believe I read somewhere that members of Hezbollah are now working with the Lebanese Army to upgrade their effectiveness as well.

    • Replies: @Iris
  249. Iris says:
    @renfro

    …..the fat lady hasn’t sung on Palestine yet.

    North-African country Algeria have just won the football African Cup of Nations in Cairo.

    This is their winning football team parading on a bus after their victory; the only flag the players are waving is the Palestinian flag.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  250. Iris says:
    @Steve Naidamast

    I believe I read somewhere that members of Hezbollah are now working with the Lebanese Army to upgrade their effectiveness as well.

    The alliances within the Lebanese religious factions can seem very surprising to a Westerner’s eye: Shia Hezbollah’s closest and indefectible ally is the respected lead of the Christian minority, General Michel Aoun.

    On the contrary, Hezbollah has long-lasting feuds with its Saudi-backed Sunni Muslim counterpart, made worse by the murder of PM Hariri, as well as an open conflict with the Druze faction and its leader Jumblatt, despite Druzes being an offspring of the Shia scission.

    From what I read, Hezbollah is actually much more powerful than the Lebanese army, and is working together with the Syrians, the Iranians, the Russians, and even the Chinese in the background, keen to develop their OBOR initiative.

    Re-conquest of the ME is a strategic goal for all these players. I can’t see how demented, warmongering Israel can survive as a country, short of provoking a regional war.

  251. Walt says:

    Jews should leave Israel and move to countries they came from : Russia/Ukraine/Poland /Germany/etc. Why the hell does anyone want to liv in a desert? 6,000,000 Israeli Jews can easily be assimalated. Just put a stone wall around Jerusalem and go vivit the place when the weather is nice.

  252. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:

    Yes, this is true.

    This would be very, very bad to me if I was a Palestinian Arab (Arab Christian or just some Christian trying to make a life in Jerusalem the city of Jesus Christ).

    But, one can make similar maps of places that were once solidly part of the White Western Civilization world – French Algeria, Constantinople, Detroit MI in 2010. Lots of Jewish people living in Arab countries before 1947, lots of Jews in Iran/Persia, now they go back and forth between Beverly Hills CA and Israel – Iranian/Persian Jews are really repulsive.

    One can make similar horrible charts and photos about the changes of the student bodies of American Ivy League colleges.

    It’s long since time that we started rooting for our own team, started noticing extremely bad things (and also good changes in places like Central and Eastern Europe, Russia) happening to our people.

    Kindness means being kind first to your/our own kind.

    Zionist Jews are going to do what they are going to do, they do not care about UN resolutions or some article on the Unz Review, the American Conservative.

    Let’s try to contain, reverse some of the worst things this J tribe has done and is now doing in what was once my/our country – let’s do something about *#&[email protected] William Kristol, Harvey Weinstein, Sheldon Adelson, CNN’s Jeff Zucker, the SPLC, Chicago’s David Axelrod looking to make another mixed race Lib Leftist pro Israel guy the next US President – looks like that is Corrie Booker.

  253. anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    This nasty Palestinian/Arab homeland will soon be large chunks of France, Germany and Sweden.

    Israeli Jews, American Jews and strangely Saudi Arabia Sunni Islamist monarchists are all on the same side promoting the mass invasion of White Western Europe with low IQ, unskilled Arab males aged 19-40.

    Please study your history.

    Jews were expelled in 1492 from Spain or forced to convert to Catholic Christians under the Inquisition tortures for taking the Arab Muslim side against Whites in Spain. Jews were hated for so many things like selling White girls in to Harems, sexual slavery for Arab Muslim buyers. Jews have traditionally dominated White slavery, forced prostitution and now the hard core porn industry, though some of the nastier Muslims like Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham England are giving them competition in this terrible business.

  254. @Steve Naidamast

    In this context, surviving IS winning. The War Nerd says the Palestinians will win because they can endure vastly more suffering. The moment Israeli Jews see they are going to face a modest fraction of what the Palestinians have been suffering, they will head for Europe, Canada, USA, Australia, etc. Most already have second passports.

    • Replies: @Talha
  255. Talha says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    War Nerd is awesome. I wish he had a column at UNZ.

    Wa salaam.

  256. APilgrim says:

    There is no such creature as a Palestinian, with a ‘Historic-Claim’, to anything.

    The ‘Holy Lands’ were Empty & Open in 1867, as chronicled in ‘The Innocents Abroad’. The Innocents Abroad, or The New Pilgrims’ Progress is a travel book by American author Mark Twain (AKA Samuel Langhorne Clemens 1835 – 1910) published in 1869 which humorously chronicles what Twain called his “Great Pleasure Excursion” on board the chartered vessel Quaker City (formerly USS Quaker City) through Europe and the Holy Land with a group of American travelers in 1867. It was the best-selling of Twain’s works during his lifetime, as well as one of the best-selling travel books of all time.

    On the other hand, there are Kurds & Armenians, who should have homelands carved from Turkey, Iran, Syria & Iraq.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  257. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    The ‘Holy Lands’ were Empty & Open in 1867

    Excellent! Seems Jews from Europe have about as little historic claim to anything there as well.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  258. APilgrim says:
    @Talha

    The saying “possession is nine points of the law” is an old common law precept that means one who has physical control or possession over the property is clearly at an advantage or is in a better possession than a person who has no possession over the property. Even if a person is the rightful owner of the property but has no possession over it, the person who is in possession will be in a better position should the property ever be subject to challenge. This is especially true with adverse possession. However mere possession alone does not grant the possessor rights in the property superior to those of the actual owner.

    This adage “possession is nine tenths of the law” is not a law but a logical rule of force that has been recognized across ages.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @Talha
  259. Iris says:
    @APilgrim

    List of the 418 Palestinian century-old towns and villages destroyed during the 1948 genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people by the supremacist Zionists:

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  260. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    I have no problem with this. When we come back into possession of the land, the law will be nine-tenths on our side.

    What’s fair is fair – as I’ve said, we’ve been doing this over that land for a very long time, nothing new to us. This is simply the aftermath of the disunity of the Muslims that led to the fall of the Ottoman control of the land in that area. When we get whipped back into shape about our unity, we’ll be able to do something substantial.

    Until then, we have some house cleaning to do…and patience and prayer.

    Peace.

  261. APilgrim says:
    @Iris

    Muhammadan Palestinians are, in the main, as scummy as ISIS (Daesh), IMHPO.

    They are dirty, dangerous, stupid, terrorists. Again IMHPO.

    So I don’t care what the YIDS (Ashkenazim) do to them.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Iris
  262. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    They are dirty, dangerous, stupid, terrorists.

    Followed by…

    So I don’t care what the YIDS (Ashkenazim) do to them.

    No, sir – you most certainly do care what the Zionists do to them, you’re simply not being up front about it.

    But it’s OK – you’ve given us enough information to connect the dots.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @APilgrim
  263. RobinG says:
    @Talha

    Did you watch this press conference? Starting at 22 min., all on Pakistan/Afghan./Kashmir …. This is another world. Trump is so-o-o-o going to win in 2020, don’t you think?

    WATCH: Trump meets with Pakistani prime minister Imran Khan

    • Replies: @Talha
  264. APilgrim says:
    @Talha

    Muhammadans are, IMHPO, a virulent & invasive sub-species.

    Muhammadans are somewhat like: Ebola, Kudzu, & Fire Ants. (Again IMHPO!)

    None of the above have ever served any useful or redeeming purpose. (Also IMHPO.)

    • Replies: @Talha
  265. APilgrim says:
    @Iris

    Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton & John McCain momentarily invigorated Daesh into: IS, and then ISIS. ISIS then briefly morphed into ISIL, with the thefts of: the Libyan Strategic Gold Supply and the O&G supplies of Kurdistan.

    Syrian President Bashar Hafez al-Assad, Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and USA President Donald John Trump joined forces to exterminate ISIL. This was a welcome result on the world scene which has somewhat corrected the failure of the Late Syrian President Hafez al-Assad to exterminate Daesh.

    The world is now a MUCH better place, IMHPO.

  266. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    Muhammadans are, IMHPO, a virulent & invasive sub-species…None of the above have ever served any useful or redeeming purpose.

    Sure; all of which explains your positions with regard to Israel and her policies.

    Much thanks for the further clarifications. It’s very instructive to know the kinds of people that are Israeli fanbois.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  267. APilgrim says:
    @Talha

    Perhaps ‘Talha’ can highlight some RECENT Muhammadan ADVANCES in: Science, Literature, Art, Music, Philosophy, Mathematics, Computers, … anything …

    Start with May 14, 1948.

    • Replies: @Talha
  268. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    Perhaps ‘Talha’ can highlight some RECENT Muhammadan ADVANCES

    Why would I need to? Why should Muslims care about justifying our existence to you based on the terms you define?

    Look, I get you want is eliminated – fine, I have zero problems with this…get in line.

    Now if you actually want to do something about it, I suggest you grab a rifle and get to a Muslim land where you’ll have a target rich environment. Just don’t be a neocon wuss-pansy about it and send others or their sons; that’s just not respectable.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  269. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    Yeah – I think if he can negotiate an end and withdrawal, he will win in 2020. Also because the Democrats are acting like stupid children.

    I really hope the US and Pakistan can end this nonsense in Afghanistan and get back to normalized relations. This will also help curb the chances of war against Iran, Pakistan has zero interest in another destabilized border.

    Man, it was good to see my childhood cricket hero sitting in that position. It was even better to see that he dressed for the meeting in traditional Pakistani garb – I cannot tell you how long I have been waiting for Pakistani leadership to have a sense of cultural self-respect and ditch the Italian suits in their meetings with foreign nations.

    He looks very dapper in a classic formal sherwani:

    Peace.

  270. @APilgrim

    /The ‘Holy Lands’ were Empty & Open in 1867, as chronicled in ‘The Innocents Abroad’./

    You appear to be unfamiliar with the works of Mr. Samuel Clemens — a.k.a. Mark Twain.

    Twain was a satirist, and if any should imagine “The Innocents Abroad” constituted a travelogue providing a contemporaneously objective view of Palestine, he’s either Netanyahu or someone of like mind.

    https://hyperallergic.com/400528/how-a-mark-twain-travel-book-turned-palestine-into-a-desert/

    From Twain’s essay “Concerning the Jews,” written in 1898:

    Concerning the Jews, the Jewish race [as having an] unpatriotic disinclination to stand by the flag as a soldier . . . If the concentration of the cunningest brains in the world was going made in a free country . . . . , I think it would be politic to stop it. It will not be well to let that race find out its strength.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  271. APilgrim says:
    @AnonStarter

    Roughly 45 years ago, I read every available work of Mark Twain (AKA SLC). From Twain’s essay ‘Concerning the Jews’, https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/1898twain-jews.asp

    In the present paper I shall allow myself to use the word Jew as if it stood for both religion and race. It is handy; and, besides, that is what the term means to the general world. In the above letter one notes these points:

    1. The Jew is a well-behaved citizen.
    2. Can ignorance and fanaticism alone account for his unjust treatment?
    3. Can Jews do anything to improve the situation?
    4. The Jews have no party; they are non-participants.
    5. Will the persecution ever come to an end?
    6. What has become of the Golden Rule?

    Twain’s characterization of Muhammadans was less favorable.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @AnonStarter
  272. APilgrim says:
    @Talha

    Modern Muhammadans have contributed virtually nothing to: Medicine, Pharmacology, Chemistry, Engineering, Humanities, Government, Space Exploration, … or any other field of endeavor. IMHPO.

    • Replies: @Talha
  273. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    Irrelevant – neither have Aborigines in Australia.

    If the projections are correct, Muslims will number about 1/3 of the world’s population within my lifetime.

    What incentive does 1/3 of the world’s population have in justifying its existence to the other 2/3? If you want to eliminate us, I already outlined your options…again, just don’t act like a pansy neocon.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @APilgrim
  274. @Talha

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum.

    Funny how American universities don’t seem to share ApePilgrim’s perspective of Muslims, since they’ve been consistently recruited to STEM-related programs and met with remarkable success there for generations.

    I knew a mechanical engineering brother who, having earned his PhD in America, turned down a starting six-figure salary upon observing the jinn-ridden landscape with which he’d have to contend. Last I heard, he had two secretaries working for him back home.

    And he wouldn’t be the first.

    • Replies: @Talha
  275. @APilgrim

    /Roughly 45 years ago, I read every available work of Mark Twain/

    Oh, O.K.

    So then you know that you’re full of it.

    Thanks for clearing that up.

  276. APilgrim says:
    @Talha

    Western Civilization has ALL the options, for dealing with Muhammadans.

    Muhammadan average IQ is comparable with Australian Aborigines. (STUPID)

    Candidate Trump proposed a Muslim Ban. Now it is within his power, & should be policy.

    IMHPO

    • Replies: @Talha
  277. @APilgrim

    /In the above letter one notes these points:/

    You missed a few. Twain also asserted that

    7. Jews are insatiably greedy.

    “There was no way to successfully compete with [the Jew] in any vocation, the law had to step in and save the Christian from the poorhouse. . . . Even the seats of learning . . . had to be closed against this tremendous antagonist. [The Jew] has made it the end and aim of his life to get [money].”

    8. Zionism is an awful ideology.
    9. Jews are scoundrels and crooks.

    “All they want is a central organization for their international world swindle, endowed with its own sovereign rights and removed from the intervention of other states: a haven for convicted scoundrels and a university for budding crooks.”

    10. Jews are inherently alien wherever they live.
    11. Jews deserve the bigotry they receive.

    “By his make and ways [the Jew] is substantially a foreigner wherever he may be, and even the angels dislike a foreigner. I am using this word foreigner in the German sense–stranger. . . . You [Jews] will always be by ways and habits and predilections substantially strangers–foreigners– wherever you are, and that will probably keep the race prejudice against you alive.”

    Just rounding out the picture. Historical accuracy and all.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @APilgrim
  278. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    Western Civilization has ALL the options, for dealing with Muhammadans.

    Yes, yes – push-button-full-spectrum-nerd-warfare. Eventually robots will be doing everything.

    Good thing is that people like you aren’t allowed anywhere near the levers of power in Western civilization.

    (STUPID)

    Well yeah, that’s what you’ve been saying in various permutations since the beginning. But maybe you can say it again to let us really know how you feel.

    Trump

    You mean the dude who did the “sword dance” holding hands with a bunch of Saudis?

    Peace.

  279. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Wow – that’s almost the exact opposite of what homeboy here was asserting.

    Don’t worry, I’m sure he will come back with quotes from Twain about how Jews are the stuff and need to take over the Holy Land which is empty and make it into an oasis with their unique awesomeness.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  280. AaronB says:

    Mark Twain’s essay “Concerning the Jews” is one of the most philo-Semitic paeans ever written. Even I find it slightly embarrassing.

    [MORE]

    We must grant proposition No. 1 for several sufficient reasons. The Jew is not a disturber of the peace of any country. Even his enemies will concede that. He is not a loafer, he is not a sot, he is not noisy, he is not a brawler nor a rioter, he is not quarrelsome. In the statistics of crime his presence is conspicuously rare—in all countries. With murder and other crimes of violence he has but little to do: he is a stranger to the hangman. In the police court’s daily long roll of “assaults” and “drunk and disorderlies” his name seldom appears.

    That the Jewish home is a home in the truest sense is a fact which no one will dispute. The family is knitted together by the strongest affections; its members show each other every due respect; and reverence for the elders is an inviolate law of the house. The Jew is not a burden on the charities of the state nor of the city; these could cease from their functions without affecting him.

    When he is well enough, he works; when he is incapacitated, his own people take care of him. And not in a poor and stingy way, but with a fine and large benevolence. His race is entitled to be called the most benevolent of all the races of men. A Jewish beggar is not impossible, perhaps; such a thing may exist, but there are few men that can say they have seen that spectacle. The Jew has been staged in many uncomplimentary forms, but, so far as I know, no dramatist has done him the injustice to stage him as a beggar. Whenever a Jew has real need to beg, his people save him from the necessity of doing it. The charitable institutions of the Jews are supported by Jewish money, and amply. The Jews make no noise about it; it is done quietly; they do not nag and pester and harass us for contributions; they give us peace, and set us an example—an example which we have not found ourselves able to follow; for by nature we are not free givers, and have to be patiently and persistently hunted down in the interest of the unfortunate.

    These facts are all on the credit side of the proposition that the Jew is a good and orderly citizen. Summed up, they certify that he is quiet, peaceable, industrious, unaddicted to high crimes and brutal dispositions; that his family life is commendable; that he is not a burden upon public charities; that he is not a beggar; that in benevolence he is above the reach of competition. These are the very quint-essentials of good citizenship. If you can add that he is as honest as the average of his neighbors—But I think that question is affirmatively answered by the fact that he is a successful business man.

    The basis of successful business is honesty; a business cannot thrive where the parties to it cannot trust each other. In the matter of numbers of the Jew counts for little in the overwhelming population of New York; but that his honesty counts for much is guaranteed by the fact that the immense wholesale business houses of Broadway, from the Battery to Union Square, is substantially in his hands. I suppose that the most picturesque example in history of a trader’s trust in his fellow-trader was one where it was not Christian trusting Christian, but Christian trusting Jew.

    That Hessian Duke who used to sell his subjects to George III. to fight George Washington with got rich at it; and by-and-by, when the wars engendered by the French Revolution made his throne too warm for him, he was obliged to fly the country. He was in a hurry, and had to leave his earnings behind—$9,000,000. He had to risk the money with some one without security. He did not select a Christian, but a Jew—a Jew of only modest means, but of high character; a character so high that it left him lonesome—Rothschild of Frankfort. Thirty years later, when Europe had become quiet and safe again, the Duke came back from overseas, and the Jew returned the loan, with interest added.[

    ]

    There is a paragraph about minor forms of cheating Jews have a reputation for, then this.

    He is a frequent and faithful and capable officer in the civil service, but he is charged with an unpatriotic disinclination to stand by the flag as a soldier—like the Christian Quaker. Now if you offset these discreditable features by the creditable ones summarized in a preceding paragraph beginning with the words, “These facts are all on the credit side,” and strike a balance, what must the verdict be? This, I think: that, the merits and demerits being fairly weighed and measured on both sides, the Christian can claim no superiority over the Jew in the matter of good citizenship. Yet in all countries, from the dawn of history, the Jew has been persistently and implacably hated, and with frequency persecuted.

    • Replies: @Iris
  281. AaronB says:

    am persuaded that in Russia, Austria, and Germany nine-tenths of the hostility to the Jew comes from the average Christian’s inability to compete successfully with the average Jew in business—in either straight business or the questionable sort. In Berlin, a few years ago, I read a speech which frankly urged the expulsion of the Jews from Germany; and the agitator’s reason was as frank as his proposition.

    It was this: that eighty-five per cent. of the successful lawyers of Berlin were Jews, and that about the same percentage of the great and lucrative businesses of all sorts in Germany were in the hands of the Jewish race! Isn’t it an amazing confession? It was but another way of saying that in a population of 48,000,000, of whom only 500,000 were registered as Jews, eighty-five per cent. of the brains and honesty of the whole was lodged in the Jews.

    I must insist upon the honesty—it is an essential of successful business, taken by and large. Of course it does not rule out rascals entirely, even among Christians, but it is a good working rule, nevertheless. The speaker’s figures may have been inexact, but the motive of persecution stands out as clear as day. The man claimed that in Berlin the banks, the newspapers, the theatres, the great mercantile, shipping, mining, and manufacturing interests, the big army and city contracts, the tramways, and pretty much all other properties of high value, and also the small businesses, were in the hands of the Jews.

    In estimating worldly values the Jew is not shallow, but deep. With precocious wisdom he found out in the morning of time that some men worship rank, some worship heroes, some worship power, some worship God, and that over these ideals they dispute and cannot unite—but that they all worship money; so he made it the end and aim of his life to get it.

    He was at it in Egypt thirty-six centuries ago; he was at it in Rome when that Christian got persecuted by mistake for him; he has been at it ever since. The cost to him has been heavy; his success has made the whole human race his enemy—but it has paid, for it has brought him envy, and that is the only thing which men will sell both soul and body to get.

    He long ago observed that a millionaire commands respect, a two-millionaire homage, a multi-millionaire the deepest deeps of adoration. We all know that feeling; we have seen it express itself. We have noticed that when the average man mentions the name of a multi-millionaire he does it with that mixture in his voice of awe and reverence and lust which burns in a Frenchman’s eye when it falls on another man’s centime.

    To conclude.—If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one per cent. of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star-dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of; but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world’s list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers.

    He has made a marvellous fight in this world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished.

    The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

  282. AaronB says:

    Jew as a soldier, amending his earlier remarks

    [MORE]

    When I published the above article in Harper’s Monthly, I was ignorant – like the rest of the Christian world – of the fact that the Jew had a record as a soldier. I have since seen the official statistics, and I find that he furnished soldiers and high officers to the Revolution, the War of 1812, and the Mexican War. In the Civil War he was represented in the armies and navies of both the North and the South by 10 per cent. of his numerical strength – the same percentage that was furnished by the Christian populations of the two sections. This large fact means more than it seems to mean; for it means that the Jew’s patriotism was not merely level with the Christian’s, but overpassed it. When the Christian volunteer arrived in camp he got a welcome and applause, but as a rule the Jew got a snub. His company was not desired, and he was made to feel it. That he nevertheless conquered his wounded pride and sacrificed both that and his blood for his flag raises the average and quality of his patriotism above the Christian’s. His record for capacity, for fidelity, and for gallant soldiership in the field is as good as any one’s. This is true of the Jewish private soldiers and the Jewish generals alike. Major-General O. O. Howard speaks of one of his Jewish staff-officers as being “of the bravest and best”; of another – killed at Chancellorsville – as being “a true friend and a brave officer”; he highly praises two of his Jewish brigadier-generals; finally, he uses these strong words: “Intrinsically there are no more patriotic men to be found in the country than those who claim to be of Hebrew descent, and who served with me in parallel commands or more directly under my instructions.”

    Fourteen Jewish Confederate and Union families contributed, between them, fifty-one soldiers to the war. Among these, a father and three sons; and another, a father and four sons.

    In the above article I was not able to endorse the common reproach that the Jew is willing to feed upon a country but not to fight for it, because I did not know whether it was true or false. I supposed it to be true, but it is not allowable to endorse wandering maxims upon supposition – except when one is trying to make out a case. That slur upon the Jew cannot hold up its head in presence of the figures of the War Department. It has done its work, and done it long and faithfully, and with high approval: it ought to be pensioned off now, and retired from active service.

  283. AaronB says:

    Mark Twain on Palestine –

    Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. Palestine is desolate and unlovely – Palestine is no more of this workday world. It is sacred to poetry and tradition, it is dreamland.”(Chapter 56)[4][5] “There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country”. (Chapter 52)[6] “A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely. We never saw a human being on the whole route”. (Chapter 49)[7] “There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent – not for thirty miles in either direction. …One may ride ten miles (16 km) hereabouts and not see ten human beings.” …these unpeopled deserts, these rusty mounds of barrenness…”(Chapter 46)[8]

    Although to be fair, he describes some places as fertile and prosperous, like Shechem and Jaffa. This is merely his description of the majority of the country.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  284. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Yup. This was one of my first teachers in Arabic:
    “From 2007 to 2013, Shaykh Omar completed his medical residency in Anatomic and Clinical Pathology and fellowships in Hematopathology and Molecular Genetic Pathology at Washington University in St. Louis. During this time, he was also received formal authorization in the Islamic science of spiritual purification. Shaykh Omar is currently a staff physician at the Moffitt Cancer Center and an Assistant Professor of Oncological Sciences at the University of South Florida in Tampa where he resides.”
    http://pureway.org/shaykh-omar/

    I think the real problem is that we’re too stupid to know we’re stupid…(sigh) we’ll never learn.

    Wa salaam.

  285. AaronB says:

    I just want to make clear that the moderator, not I, chose which comments of mine to put under “more”, and which to give more emphasis to.

  286. AaronB says:

    Here is the context, from the same essay, for AnonStarter paragraph about Jews being foreigners. I am putting it after more tag –

    [MORE]

    Will the persecution of the Jews ever come to an end?”

    On the score of religion, I think it has already come to an end. On the score of race prejudice and trade, I have the idea that it will continue. That is, here and there in spots about the world, where a barbarous ignorance and a sort of mere animal civilization prevail; but I do not think that elsewhere the Jew need now stand in any fear of being robbed and raided.

    Among the high civilizations he seems to be very comfortably situated indeed, and to have more than his proportionate share of the prosperities going. It has that look in Vienna. I suppose the race prejudice cannot be removed; but he can stand that; it is no particular matter. By his make and ways he is substantially a foreigner wherever he may be, and even the angels dislike a foreigner. I am using this word foreigner in the German sense—stranger. Nearly all of us have an antipathy to a stranger, even of our own nationality. We pile gripsacks in a vacant seat to keep him from getting it; and a dog goes further, and does as a savage would—challenges him on the spot.

    The German dictionary seems to make no distinction between a stranger and a foreigner; in its view a stranger is a foreigner—a sound position, I think. You will always be by ways and habits and predilections substantially strangers—foreigners—wherever you are, and that will probably keep the race prejudice against you alive. But you were the favorites of Heaven originally, and your manifold and unfair prosperities convince me that you have crowded back into that snug place again.

    Here is an incident that is significant. Last week in Vienna a hailstorm struck the prodigious Central Cemetery and made wasteful destruction there. In the Christian part of it, according to the official figures, 621 window-panes were broken; more than 900 singing-birds were killed; five great trees and many small ones were torn to shreds and the shreds scattered far and wide by the wind; the ornamental plants and other decorations of the graves were ruined, and more than a hundred tomb-lanterns shattered; and it took the cemetery’s whole force of 300 laborers more than three days to clear away the storm’s wreckage. In the report occurs this remark—and in its italics you can hear it grit its Christian teeth “. . . lediglich die israelitische Abtheilung des Friedhofes vom Hagelwetter ganzlich verschont worden war.” Not a hailstone hit the Jewish reservation! Such nepotism makes me tired.

  287. AaronB says:

    And here is the context for AnonStarters quote about Jews gathering in a state in Palestine –

    Again under more tag –

    [MORE]

    It was a pathetic tale that was told by a poor Jew in Galicia a fortnight ago during the riots, after he had been raided by the Christian peasantry and despoiled of everything he had. He said his vote was of no value to him, and he wished he could be excused from casting it, for, indeed, casting it was a sure damage to him, since no matter which party he voted for, the other party would come straight and take its revenge out of him.

    Nine per cent. of the population of the empire, these Jews, and apparently they cannot put a plank into any candidate’s platform! If you will send our Irish lads over here I think they will organize your race and change the aspect of the Reichsrath.

    You seem to think that the Jews take no hand in politics here, that they are “absolutely non-participants.” I am assured by men competent to speak that this is a very large error, that the Jews are exceedingly active in politics all over the empire, but that they scatter their work and their votes among the numerous parties, and thus lose the advantages to be had by concentration. I think that in America they scatter too, but you know more about that than I do.

    Speaking of concentration, Dr. Herzl has a clear insight into the value of that. Have you heard of his plan? He wishes to gather the Jews of the world together in Palestine, with a government of their own—under the suzerainty of the Sultan, I suppose. At the Convention of Berne, last year, there were delegates from everywhere, and the proposal was received with decided favor.

    I am not the Sultan, and I am not objecting; but if that concentration of the cunningest brains in the world were going to be made in a free country (bar Scotland), I think it would be politic to stop it. It will not be well to let the race find out its strength. If the horses knew theirs, we should not ride any more.<

    The last sentence makes clear the irony Twain is utilizing.

  288. Iris says:
    @AaronB

    Mark Twain’s essay “Concerning the Jews” is one of the most philo-Semitic paeans ever written. Even I find it slightly embarrassing.

    Please don’t feel embarrassed.

    Even though Mark Twain was a great author, and certainly not the only one from America, who gave the genius William Faulkner to the world, us Europeans have an incomparably richer literary tradition, of which most great authors are self-proclaimed “anti-Semites”.

    The shining stars of European literature, Shakespeare, Ronsard, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Goethe, Rousseau, Voltaire, Dickens, Victor Hugo, Celine, all have expressed their disgust of Talmudic Judaism.

    Their thoughts have even been gathered in a French encyclopaedia of “anti-Semitic” quotes made by famous people:
    Le monde contre soi” and “Anthologie des propos contre les Juifs, le judaïsme et le sionisme“.

    Talmudists are far more “popular ” than Mohammedans, no doubts about that, LOL.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  289. Talha says:
    @AaronB

    Thanks for the reference, much appreciated!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  290. AaronB says:
    @Talha

    Actually that essay has one of my favourite lines by Mark Twain, that I have used often in my life.

    I can stand any society. All that I care to know is that a man is a human being—that is enough for me; he can’t be any worse.

    🙂

    • Agree: Talha
  291. AaronB says:
    @Iris

    Talmudists are far more “popular ” than Mohammedans, no doubts about that, LOL.

    I wasn’t suggesting Jews were more popular, or that Muslims should be unpopular.

    I believe Muslims are unfairly maligned in the West – or at least, the religion is unfairly maligned.

    I am sure Mark Twain would write a similarly interesting article on Islam if he were alive today.

  292. APilgrim says:
    @AnonStarter

    Mark Twain’s … ‘Concerning the Jews’, https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/mod/1898twain-jews.asp

    Contains no sections 7-11.

    However any interested reader is already aware that AnonStarter & Talha are liars & fools.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Talha
  293. @AaronB

    Welcome back, Aaron.

    /This is merely his description of the majority of the country./

    Well, Twain didn’t visit “the majority of the country.” He took the traditional route common to western sightseers of the era, and most significantly, he wrote as a satirist, the single most important fact consistently ignored by Zionists. (He speaks of casually cutting a Muslim in half with a sword, for example.) Exaggerated descriptions were a hallmark of his authorship and yet they suddenly become iron-clad “proof” that Palestine was largely unpopulated before European Jews began arriving en masse.

    In the same essay, Twain also uses similar words to describe Greece: “barren,” “bleak,” “unsmiling,” “a symbol of desolation,” and yet he states that its inhabitants number 800,000, which is a contradiction on its face. Apply the same standard to his description of Palestine and we can hardly say it constitutes proof of its “emptiness.”

    In any event, I merely responded to AP’s use of Twain as typical hasbara, which has been thoroughly debunked by other, more reliable historical documentation.

    As for Twain’s glowing paean to the Jewish people, I never denied it, and I appreciate the context provided to some of his statements, though — let’s face it — even those you chose to contextualize would elicit shrill cries of “anti-Semitism!” in today’s world.

    FWIW, the “scoundrels” and “crooks” comment is brutal, even for Twain.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  294. @APilgrim

    /Contains no sections 7-11./

    Nor did I claim it did.

  295. APilgrim says:

    AnonStarter,

    I call bullshit. Show your Mark Twain references for your FANTASY sections 7-11.

    Waiting … (but not holding my breath).

  296. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    I think that’s a fair point.

    Twain certainly was over dramatizing the bleakness of Palestine – writers write for effect. At the same time, there must be some truth there as well. It shouldn’t be taken at face value, I agree, but as an exaggerated picture.

    To be fair, as someone who has been to Greece, I was actually surprised at how desolate and bleak the area around Athens and many of the islands were 🙂

    Istanbul was a haven of cool greenery after hot and deserty Athens.

  297. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    Good old ad hominem!

    liars

    Muzzie taqiyyah awesomeness – check.

    fools

    Low IQ inbreds – check. Yet another variation on the same theme.

    Peace.

  298. @Talha

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum.

    SubHanALLAH.

    Well, it turns out the “crooks” and “scoundrels” quote isn’t Twain’s after all. Which makes perfect sense, given its inconsistency with the rest of his work.

    You see, Aaron … We’re all just walkin’, talkin’, stinkin’ clay.

    But He still loves our company.

    • Replies: @Talha
  299. APilgrim says:

    What do Ernest Hemingway, Charles Dickens, and Mark Twain have in common?

    They were all reporters. https://www.poynter.org/reporting-editing/2015/today-in-media-history-in-1863-a-reporter-named-samuel-clemens-became-mark-twain/

    Samuel Langhorne Clemens in 1835, began his career as a newspaperman at the precocious age of 12, working as a printer’s apprentice for the Missouri Courier after his father died of pneumonia. From there, he joined his brother Orion Clemens’ paper the Western Union as a typesetter and editorial assistant. He carried his burgeoning career to a number of cities, including St. Louis, Philadelphia, New York and Cincinnati. During the ensuing years, he famously worked as a riverboat pilot and began using his pen name, Mark Twain, in 1863.

  300. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Makes sense.

    One must be careful regarding the citations (especially in this age when anyone can set up their own garage-band website and claim anything they want), we don’t want to fall in the same category as the free wheeling shoot-from-the-hip anti-Muzlamics crowd.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  301. @Talha

    Nothing to do with a “garage-band website.” It was simply an error in organizing quotes on my behalf.

    But look at this thread again …

    Earlier, Aaron presented information he himself later recognized as inaccurate and provided an opportunity for us — not only to learn about his sincere humility, but to assure him that such matters are merely a means by which we may draw closer to our Lord.

    And now the shoe is, as they say, on the other foot.

    In this realm of smokeless fire and imaginary anonymity, it’s a terribly simple matter to forget who we are.

    And only the faithful receive admonition.

    was-salaam.

    • Agree: Talha
    • Replies: @AaronB
  302. Corvinus says:
    @Al Liguori

    The reality is that Hitler and Germany made the effort to take over sovereign nations, thus in part causing World War II.

  303. AaronB says:
    @AnonStarter

    Thank you for graciously accepting this.

    We all make mistakes or even do things we later regret – I certainly do all the time, often cringeworthy mistakes – and it really is an occasion for humility and a reminder of who we truly are 🙂

    Spiritually, this is the best medicine for us humans.

  304. No problem, Aaron. Your composure is a testament to your faith.

    In Arabic, the word for “person” is insan, derived from the same root shared by nisyan, meaning “forgetfulness.” If our existence were devoid of mistakes, it wouldn’t be what it is.

    That said, the grass is long and the weeds are growing like … well, weeds. It’s a relatively low-risk task where mistakes are concerned. A small toad or two might lurch clumsily into the cutting path, but I’ve successfully spirited each and every one of these whimsically oblivious amphibians to the woods so far this season, and it’s indescribably pleasant to engage in labor that doesn’t compel you to think too much.

    Insha’Allah, see you and Talha soon.

    was-salaam.

  305. APilgrim says:

    The round of Apologies, clarifications & corrections are accepted.

    We have ALL been ‘brain-washed’, propagandized, lied-to, and deceived hundreds of times. A high percentage of ‘quotes’ I heard as a child, and since were incorrectly attributed and/or outright wrong.

    The internet accelerates knowledge and deception, so our difficulties are amplified.

    • Replies: @Talha
  306. APilgrim says:

    Did anyone seriously think that Jared Corey Kushner would quickly and easily NAIL a Middle East peace?

    My 1st impression was that Donald Trump sent his son-in-law 5,000 miles away, on a ‘Snipe-Hunt’. Apparently the assignment is a genuine effort, by a trusted adviser.

    Thousands of previous genuine efforts by ‘Heavy-Hitters’ have failed. Probably many thousands of future Mid-East peace efforts will also fail.

  307. Talha says:
    @APilgrim

    The internet accelerates knowledge and deception, so our difficulties are amplified.

    One of the best and concise diagnoses I have read in a while.

    Peace.

  308. APilgrim says:

    China, Europe, Israel, Australia, & the Americas should expel & BAN Muhammadans.

    Turks, Persians & Arabs should be expelled from Kurdistan.

    This MIGHT lead to Mid-East Peace. It would end Muslim International Terrorism.

  309. Talha says:

    Turks, Persians & Arabs should be expelled from Kurdistan

    What a curious statement. Every serious analyst I’ve ever read says this independent Kurdistan being carved out of all those nations would cause very serious consequences and war in the area.

    All except one group, ah – yes, now I remember:
    “Netanyahu, Sole Leader to Endorse Independent Kurdistan…”
    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/netanyahu-hits-back-at-erdogan-for-supporting-hamas-1.5451118

    Peace.

    • Replies: @APilgrim
  310. APilgrim says:
    @Talha

    Kurds are a distinct tribe, which has dwelled in the ‘No Fly Zone’, for many millennia. And so a Kurdish homeland is fully justified.

    The so-called ‘Palestinians’ are a recent fabrication, mostly by the Romanian Secret Police, in Soviet Union days. ‘Palestinians are a faux tribe, with no historic ties to the lands of modern and/or ancient Israel.

    I favor re-partition of the Middle East along Tribal and/or Ethnic lines; and thus setting aside the crazy-quilt of Colonial Boundaries. Great Britain & the other colonial powers scrambled the tribal, ethnic and topographical boundaries to FOMENT discord. To the end of maintaining a continuous state of war, the colonial objectives have been accomplished.

  311. APilgrim says:

    The Camp David Accords were signed by Egyptian President Anwar Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin on 17 September 1978, following twelve days of secret negotiations at Camp David. The two framework agreements were signed at the White House, and were witnessed by President Jimmy Carter. The second of these frameworks (A Framework for the Conclusion of a Peace Treaty between Egypt and Israel) led directly to the 1979 Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty. Due to the agreement, Sadat and Begin received the shared 1978 Nobel Peace Prize. The first framework (A Framework for Peace in the Middle East), which dealt with the Palestinian territories, was written without participation of the Palestinians.

    Historian Jørgen Jensehaugen argues that by the time Carter left office in January 1981, he: was in an odd position—he had attempted to break with traditional US policy but ended up fulfilling the goals of that tradition, which had been to break up the Arab alliance, side-line the Palestinians, build an alliance with Egypt, weaken the Soviet Union and secure Israel. Jimmy Carter is the sole survivor, among the players in this deal.

  312. APilgrim says:

    I favor homelands, with defensible borders & walls, for: Alawites, Sunni-Arabs, Kurds, Shia-Arabs, Shia-Persians, Sunni-Persians, Jews, Turks, Wahhabis, Yazidis, Assyrians, and the many other tribal & ethnic groups in the Middle East. (Except Daesh (ISIS).

    And they should ALL be ‘Armed-to-the-Teeth’, IMHPO.

    Nothing else, in Modern History, has worked.

  313. Miggle says:
    @AnonStarter

    “No compulsion in religion,” and prior to the arrival of The Prophet in Medina, there was nothing in the world akin to his federation of disparate religious and tribal communities, all of whom were entitled to freedom of worship and adjudication of their affairs according to the laws of their sacred tradition.

    That’s what I said. Islam allows freedom of worship, allows Christians to worship in a Christian church, but freedom of worship is not freedom of religion. Law enforcement (“adjudication”) by one’s own religious authorities, or any religious authorities, any other than state authorities, is not freedom of religion but dictatorship of religion.

    Leave it to God to punish sin (breaches of God’s law) without earthly assistance, and leave it to the state to punish breaches of state law, and understand that there’s no other law. Separation of Church and State, total separation.

    Freedom of religion includes the right to abandon or change one’s religion. So, does Islam permit freedom of religion, or kill former Muslims who exercised it?

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