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Alan “Israel Did 9/11” Sabrosky: Most Censored Man in America
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Who’s afraid of Alan Sabrosky? Whoever they are, they have the ability to monitor and censor YouTube live-streams in real time. And they apparently don’t want you to know what Sabrosky thinks about the Holocaust.

That’s the obvious takeaway from the highly unusual example of YouTube censorship that disrupted the March 22 live broadcast of False Flag Weekly News. The broadcast, which live-streamed from Vimeo to three different YouTube channels, transpired normally up to the 59:31 mark, when Sabrosky stated that the Holocaust was “a technological and logistical impossibility—“ and suddenly his mike was cut…but only on the YouTube stream, archived here:

If you want to hear the rest of Dr. Sabrosky’s Holocaust statement (instead of long stretches of dead air) you’ll have to watch the Vimeo version, which was not censored:

Whoever did this must have been monitoring the broadcast in real time. It must have been a human, not an AI algorithm. The censor must have had his or her finger hovering over the “cut his mike” button throughout the show. And that censor must have been trained and given the power to cut Sabrosky’s mike within a couple of seconds of Sabrosky starting to “deny the Holocaust.” Altogether quite an amazing feat of censorship!

But however logistically and technologically impressive this bizarre crime against free speech may have been, it seems even more impressively stupid and self-defeating. Can they really believe that actions like this are going to stop people from asking questions about the Holocaust? Haven’t they heard of the Streisand Effect? Isn’t everyone who hears about this going to say, “gee, if they have to take such extreme measures to silence this guy, maybe he’s onto something?”

It is really quite a tribute to Dr. Sabrosky and False Flag Weekly News that someone went to so much trouble. They must be spending far more money to monitor and censor us than we are spending doing the show in the first place. Talk about asymmetrical information warfare!

But I don’t believe the people behind this are as stupid as they seem. Such apparently counterproductive acts sometimes do serve strategic purposes. In this case, I assume the censors were beta-testing protocols for censoring live-streams in real time. It is no coincidence that this attack on Alan Sabrosky’s First Amendment rights came exactly one week after the allegedly live-streamed Christchurch shooting. Since the Christchurch terror event, Facebook and YouTube representatives have been all over the MSM announcing that they have to fix their systems to prevent “the live-streaming of hate.”

If I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist I would wonder whether the Christchurch attack was a set-up to roll out the beta testing of precisely this sort of censorship. I would note the incongruity of the fact that the people pushing for internet censorship are almost all Zionist Jews, not Muslims—yet the censorship is being rolled out on the pretext that it is supposed to protect Muslims and “honor the sacred Christchurch victims.” Since when did Zionists care about Muslim lives? They proudly slaughter a Christchurch worth of Palestinian Muslims every month or two. And they have murdered 32 million Muslims, and created tens of millions of refugees, in the 9/11 wars for Israel.

It’s as if the people behind the Christchurch push-for-censorship PR op, and the subsequent deployment of new censorship systems like the one just beta-tested against FFWN, are trying to conceal their true identities. Perhaps that is why they made sure that the word “Jew” was almost entirely absent from the Tarrant manifesto. As Daniel Haqiqatjou notes:

The 73-page document reads like it was written by someone who is trying very hard to pretend to be a White Nationalist… But there is one glaring inconsistency. If you ever visit places on the internet frequented and owned by White Nationalists, such as 4chan, 8chan, Daily Stormer, or Gab, one immediate, indubitable fact hits you in the face: These people hate Jews. More than anyone else, White Nationalists hate Jews and are not afraid of expressing it with thousands of different memes…. What is bizarre about Tarrant’s alleged manifesto is that he says a great deal about this (Jewish) plot. He rails against immigration, fertility rates, and “White genocide.” But he doesn’t mention who the supposed plotters are. Why? Why is Tarrant following the White Nationalist script to the letter but doesn’t mention Jews once in the entire 73 pages?

(Except one passing mention that they’re fine when they’re Israeli!)

If the perps were hiding their identities while orchestrating Christchurch and the internet censorship campaign it launched, they dropped the mask when they silenced Alan Sabrosky. We all know who reacts reflexively against “Holocaust denial.” And we all know who hates Alan Sabrosky, the former US Army War College Head of Strategic Studies who came out as a 9/11 truther on my radio show in March, 2010—and announced that Israel did it.

The Zionist fear and loathing of Sabrosky is so off-the-charts that the mere mention of his name can get you arrested. That’s what happened to Jeremy Rothe-Kushel in May 2016 when he tried to ask Dennis Ross a question during the Q&A after Ross’s talk at the Kansas City Public Library.

https://youtu.be/hrsKzg0_BNA

Tellingly, the Times of Israel report on Rothe-Kushel’s free speech lawsuit tiptoes around Sabrosky’s unspeakable name.

Alan Sabrosky, “he who must not be named,” is also “he who must not be broadcast.” Bonnie Faulkner’s Guns and Butter radio show, one of the most popular and respected Pacifica staples, was abruptly terminated by KPFA management last August due to Sabrosky’s appearance there.

“Somebody” apparently doesn’t want Sabrosky on False Flag Weekly News, either. Last January 4th Alan Sabrosky made his debut appearance as a regular FFWN co-host. The audience gave him a huge thumbs-up. But when he tried to return on a regular basis, his computer suddenly started coming down with bizarre ailments. It always seemed to happen right before the show. His computer would be working fine, and then suddenly WHAM—it would melt down right before broadcast time and we’d scramble to find a replacement. This has happened so many times in the past three months that I have lost count. Tech experts who have tried to solve the problem say Sabrosky is the victim of a highly sophisticated cyber-attack. It was only this past Friday, March 22, that after elaborate precautions we were finally able to get Alan broadcasting again on FFWN. And miraculously enough, he somehow got through 58 minutes of live-streaming before they cut his mike.

Why is Dr. Alan Sabrosky the most censored man in America? Those seeking to silence him don’t want you to know what he thinks about two issues: 9/11 and the Holocaust. Specifically, they don’t want you to know that he thinks 9/11 was “a Mossad operation, period.” And they don’t want you to know that he thinks the official Holocaust narrative of six million Jews killed mostly in gas chambers is “a technological and logistical impossibility.”

Why are these two issues so sensitive? The Holocaust, whatever it was, happened 75 years ago. And 9/11 happened more than 17 years ago. Isn’t all that stuff ancient history?

The answer, I believe, is that both Official Conspiracy Theories (OCTs) are foundational myths of Zionism. The myth (sacred narrative) of the Holocaust is Israel’s primary basis of legitimacy in global public opinion and especially Jewish opinion. The Platonic guardians of Zionism need the Holocaust horror story to bludgeon world Jewry into accepting the necessity of establishing and maintaining a “Jewish state.”

Likewise the sacred official myth of 9/11 is the lynchpin of the “clash of civilizations,” which in essence is a long-term Western war against Israel’s enemies. Were it widely known that Israel itself orchestrated 9/11 and the ensuing crusade, Israel’s already-dubious future wouldn’t just be dubious—it would be nonexistent.

Alan Sabrosky happens to be one of the world’s best-credentialed and most-eloquent voices debunking the two foundational myths of Zionism. The fact that he hails from a Jewish background makes him that much more annoying—and that much more credible. Dr. Sabrosky is extremely well-informed, and he expresses himself in an engagingly straight-shooting manner. An ex-Marine as well as Strategic Studies professor, Alan Sabrosky has a full clip of info-ammo and unloads it with uncanny accuracy and alacrity. In many respects he is the Zionists’ worst nightmare.

No wonder “Doc Sabrosky” is the most-censored man in America.

 
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  1. lavoisier says: • Website

    The man sure has a lot of courage.

    He should be admired for his courage and willingness to challenge the sacred cows of our existence, not marginalized.

    He is a lot like Mr. Ron Unz–another admirable individual.

    Both could be absolutely wrong about what they say and write, but I would still admire them for their courage.

    • Agree: Twodees Partain, Moi, Alfred
    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
  2. El Dato says:

    This article starts out interesting but then immediately degenerates into the usual “everything is a conspiracy” train to strictly nowhere, so the only thought that comes up is

    “Hey dawg we heard you like false flag attacks, so we put a false flag attack into your false flag attack so that you can be a part of a conspiracy while you write about a conspiracy.”

  3. Some folks are still fighting to reveal the truth about the September 11, 2001 false flag operation:

    22 MARCH 2019 — Lawyers’ Committee and AE911Truth Announce FBI Lawsuit
    https://www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org/2019/03/23/22-march-ae911truth-and-lawyers-announce-fbi-lawsuit/

    07 NOVEMBER 2018 — Sea Change – 9/11 Grand Jury Empaneled
    https://www.lawyerscommitteefor9-11inquiry.org/2018/12/24/sea-change-9-11-grand-jury-empaneled/

  4. It does take courage to stand against our culture’s most sacred grand narratives. (And to wonder why the foundational sacred narratives of the state of Israel, population 8 million, became the most sacred narratives of the West, population over one billion.)

    • Agree: Z-man, Iris
  5. The youtube video has no sound.

  6. Sean says:

    Alan Sabrosky is part-Jewish. All the originators and most influential of these conspiracy (JFK, 9/11 ect ) theorists seem to be Jewish. Is it because only Ashkenazi Jews have an IQ high enough to function effectively while handicapped with thought disorder?

    • Replies: @ariadna
    , @Larry Kelley
    , @L.K
  7. ariadna says:
    @Sean

    Shall we deduce from this that you consider yourself free from “thoughtbdisorder” and having a low IQ?

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    , @Svigor
  8. ariadna says:

    “b” is very close to the space bar. I have digitation disorder

  9. @El Dato

    The “disintegration” you read into the article exists only in your own mind. Conspiracies are a fact of life. If you want the word to have the impact you desire, you’ll have to use the whole CIA term “conspiracy theory”.

  10. nik1975 says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    I would suggest it as pure white supremacy

    All along just a criminal enterprise fronted by supremacists

  11. kikz says:

    good to see sabrosky in reprint/repost.

  12. Thank you, Kevin Barrett, for another thought-provoking article.

    Jewish power is not only the power to control (and eliminate) the very discussion of Jewish power, but it is also their extraordinary ability to erect barriers, instill taboos and construct false flags that confuse, frighten, and gaslight the goyim.

    Protecting the Zio-Jewish galaxy of myths and half-truths requires the continued exercise of Jewish authority over mass media, political legislation, and public education.

    And let’s not ignore the matter of military supremacy–including the selective right to acquire and deny to others–nuclear weaponry.

    Other essential tricks in the Zionist arsenal include the systematic de-platforming of independent voices.

    When it comes to political action and Free Speech in America, this same key question remains:

    Is it good for the Jews?

    Thus the Zionist-friendly onslaught against politically-incorrect expression, especially if it’s anti-Jewish.

    Holocaust skepticism as well as non-violent utterances that are declared ‘anti-Semitic’ are no longer tolerated in our Free world.

    Ours is a Zionist-friendly world now.

    So shut up.

    Certain words, certain threads of thought, certain brands of ‘hate’, and certain expressions of discrimination will not be permitted. But only certain ones.

    Other brands of contempt, discrimination and violence are promulgated openly by leading ‘democracies’, including ours.

    Organized ‘hate’ and deliberate mass murder (preemptive wars) are still very acceptable in Zio-America–as long as the targets are correctly identified.

    These unprincipled efforts to shred liberty and deform the rule of law are nothing short of astonishing. And diabolical.

    They are also incredibly revealing since the ‘Jewish community’ has an unrivaled reputation for ‘championing’ Free Speech (ACLU) helping the downtrodden and defenseless (‘Civil Rights’) and breaking down any number of restrictive barriers that the old, authoritarian Christian world once imposed on weak and ‘defenseless’ POC.

    In the world of political make-believe, the Tribe has all the American bases covered.

    Political values inside the Jewish state on the other hand are of a different stripe. Just ask the hapless goyim who still exist there.

    Grand illusions do happen. But not by accident.

    Incredibly, the quintessential insiders–America’s new Establishment–still manage to depict themselves as perennial ‘outsiders’ as well as victims. This is a remarkable illusion.

    It deserves to be exposed, ridiculed and deconstructed.

    • Agree: Wally
    • Replies: @anon
  13. @El Dato

    The immediate degeneration actually appears to be both in your thinking and in your expression.

  14. anon[228] • Disclaimer says:
    @mark green

    Do you get angry with cows,goats,cats,dogs,buffaloes,elepahnts,tigers? No. You don’t. You learn and you control . They serve essential and various purposes . But you control them and sometimes you use one set against another like using the dog to protect the sheep an then shearing the sheep when you need to shear them pr slaughter them . Dogs get to eat some sheep meat also .

    Jews have included Muslim Hindus Christian in the list .

    • Replies: @Wally
  15. anarchyst says:

    It’s not “smarts” or “IQ” that gives jews an advantage over gentile whites, but is their rabid insistence on cultural and social cohesiveness, insularity and nepotism (but only for themselves) that gives them an “advantage”. This same cultural and social cohesiveness that is prized so highly by jewish interests is denied to gentile whites. Jews, to a man will fight to deny this same cultural and social cohesiveness to gentile whites that they themselves enjoy as it is a major part of the jewish purpose–the destruction of gentile white culture, which IS superior to any jewish cultural or social society. If jews did not possess this power, they would most likely be rag merchants, liquor merchants, or furniture merchants–nothing more. As I have previously stated, jewish success is based on cultural and social cohesiveness and insularity–NOT “smarts” or “IQ”. Once enough jews get into a position of power in the work world or education systems, they will hire and promote their own, even bypassing more qualified gentile white candidates.
    Jews have latched on to cultural cohesiveness and nepotism, as it serves their purpose exceedingly well.
    At the same time, jews pushed the concept of racial “equality”, (but only for gentile whites), backing it up with “civil-rights” and “equal accommodation” laws which are enforced by governments–but only against whites. These “civil-rights” laws are used as a “battering ram” against gentile whites to diffuse and fragment any semblance of gentile white solidarity and cohesiveness that may arise.
    A great reckoning dealing with the jews is coming. As gentile whites become more marginalized, the accusation of being tagged as “racist” or a “holocaust denier” is rapidly losing its “sting”.
    Increasingly, jews are more wary of being “called out” and recognized as “jews”. One can call a jew a shyster, shylock, bankster, criminal or ne-er-do-well, and it will roll off his back like water off a duck, BUT call a jew a “jew”, and he will recoil in horror, having been “found out”.

  16. Who’s afraid of Alan Sabrosky?

    He looks as fearful as Virginia Woolf…

  17. Miro23 says:

    The 73-page document reads like it was written by someone who is trying very hard to pretend to be a White Nationalist…

    I’ve got to agree with that – and the style just doesn’t fit Tarrant at all. It’s quite sophisticated in a fakey sort of emotionless way – not something that regular guy Tarrant would rush off (as it claims) before the attack.

  18. the idea that the Nazi movement – bitterly fractious and held together only by the common glue of Jew-hate…didn’t straighten a few kaftans when finally in power over most of Europe and in control of c. 5 million Jews,

    is of course absurd.

    Let’s leave that to Wally and his gay little band of codoh autists.

    but Sabrosky’s right about 9/11 as a Zionist plot, and proven so by any number of data points; of which my favorite:

    *Mossad film crew on the Jersey side of the Hudson, and set up there c. 20″ before AM11 hit the North Tower. Then arrested, released back to Israhell, where they admitted having been “sent to NY to record the event”

    *Reuters, a Rothschild operation, reporting WT7 down 15-20 minutes before it collapsed.

    *Lucky Larry (((Silverstein)))

    *Zionist neo-con PNAC document, one year beforehand: “what we need is a new Pearl Harbor”

    *etc.

  19. Jett Rucker says: • Website

    Anyone who is permitted to “speak” that is, post on the Internet, now must be suspected of having cut a deal of one kind or another with The Authorities.

    This is, after all, how bad money gains circulation where once good money circulated.

    The liars will hunt the truth-tellers down mercilessly, and thoroughly. They can easily find the ones they need to silence by noting how many appear to be listening.

    The truth has no chance – except possibly for the occasional glimpse that this dynamic might inadvertently afford.

    It’s a peep show, after all.

  20. wayfarer says:

    “New Zealand False Flag?”
    Dr. Kevin Barrett and Dr. Alan Sabrosky

    • Replies: @aandrews
  21. jfk says: • Website

    1 – 4 Alan Sabrosky — Was 9/11 a Mossad operation

  22. TKK says:

    I would note the incongruity of the fact that the people pushing for internet censorship are almost all Zionist Jews, not Muslims

    What a knee slapper! Try to put a cartoon of Mohommad on You Tube and see how fast you are banned. Any articles about blacks, gays, trannies or fat chicks are moderated in the MSM comments.

    What drama queens you all are.

    This Jewish obsession on this site to link every single tragedy to Jewish strategy, every bit of Jewish history as false was comical. But it has reached repellent stupidity.

    Makes Captain Ahab seem like a stoner.

    Without irony- get a fooking life. Run some articles that teach, enlighten or enrich.

    This Jew Boogie Man circle jerk is a pathetic snooze fest.

    • Disagree: apollonian
  23. jfk says: • Website

    5-6 Alan Sabrosky — Was 9/11 a Mossad operation

  24. jfk says:

    9 11 AND ISRAEL ALAN SABROSKY’S SHOCKING PRESS TV INTERVIEW
    YouTube 139,114 views

    Alan Sabrosky: Israel writing US laws, Zionist lobby now has total control

    • Replies: @freedom-cat
  25. Wally says:
    @anon

    That’s comparable to how Jews have incorporated a fake ‘5,000,000 others‘ into their impossible “holocaust” narrative of ‘6,000,000 murdered Jews’.
    i.e.: homosexuals & gypsies, Jehovah Witnesses, and a few more thrown in

    It’s simply a form of vote buying and baiting that encourage others to support and work for their agenda.

    http://www.codoh.com

  26. Wally says: • Website
    @anarchyst

    Indeed, Jews get to play by a different, more favorable set of rules.

    And no doubt, it’s not smarts. If Jews were really so smart they would have conjured up a better, more believable story than their impossibly fake & stupid ‘6,000,000, 5,000,000 others & gas chambers’.

    I’m also convinced that continually calling people “holocaust deniers” and attacking Revisionist scholars simply creates more interest and scrutiny of the scientifically impossible “holocaust” narrative.

  27. Escher says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    *Mossad film crew on the Jersey side of the Hudson, and set up there c. 20″ before AM11 hit the North Tower. Then arrested, released back to Israhell, where they admitted having been “sent to NY to record the event”

    *Reuters, a Rothschild operation, reporting WT7 down 15-20 minutes before it collapsed.

    *Lucky Larry (((Silverstein)))

    *Zionist neo-con PNAC document, one year beforehand: “what we need is a new Pea

    rl Harbor”

    Agree that the official narrative smells, but if this were indeed such a high level conspiracy, wouldn’t they cover their tracks better?
    What are your sources for the Mossad crew filming? Are these the notorious dancing Israelis?
    Reuters reporting WTC7 collapsed earlier than it did doesn’t make any sense. Why would they do that, even if they had advance knowledge of the event?
    Silverstein is Jewish, but so were many people who died that day.
    PNAC document: again, why would they broadcast their intentions?

  28. renfro says:

    Efforts to uncover real conspiracies are not helped by calling everything a conspiracy .
    Nutcases jumping in can, just like a rotten apple, rot the whole basket.

    • Replies: @atlantis_dweller
  29. Biff says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    You forgot anything there data point – using a moving company(urban moving) as a front to get your guys in and around various parts of the building to plant the demo-charges.

  30. @ariadna

    My IQ has been certified as,in the words of my high school counselor,”low grade moron.”
    I get along as best I can,but I know I will never be capable of spelling ” antidisestablishmentarianism”,let alone understand what it means. But I like the Daily Stormer.

  31. eah says:

    The fact that he hails from a Jewish background makes him…that much more credible.

    I don’t see why — ?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  32. HZ says:

    There is an another possibility in that the guy is false flagging himself for “I’m being persecuted” points. The stories of “huh computer goes off when I start steaming” sound like something a boomer would come up with.

  33. @Kevin Barrett

    It takes a lot of courage, and most will have their lives ruined as a result. Unfortunately, most people cannot be expected to give up their comforts for the privilege of taking a principled stand.

  34. Anon[732] • Disclaimer says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Wonder no longer why the foundational sacred narratives of the state of Israel became the most sacred narratives of the West; nobody wants to roast in brimstone forever, and salvation from such a horrible fate is from the Jews. Personally, I’m so grateful to the Chosenites that their salvation makes me want to identify as a genital mutilator. And send them shekels, since we Gentiles owe it to the Jews for such valuable salvation. Still wondering?

    • Replies: @Anon
  35. @anarchyst

    A great reckoning dealing with the jews is coming. As gentile whites become more marginalized, the accusation of being tagged as “racist” or a “holocaust denier” is rapidly losing its “sting”.
    It is losing it’s sting, but not where easy money is made.

  36. Anon[118] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    And nuclear blackmail helps.

    One other purpose of Israeli nuclear weapons, not often stated, but obvious, is their “use” on the United States.

    THE THIRD TEMPLE’S HOLY OF HOLIES: ISRAEL’S NUCLEAR WEAPONS
    Warner D. Farr, LTC, U.S. Army
    The Counterproliferation Papers, Future Warfare Series No. 2
    USAF Counterproliferation Center, Air War College, Air University, Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama
    http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

    If you can’t dazzle ’em with brimstone in the afterlife, you can threaten ’em with it in this life.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  37. Why is Dr. Alan Sabrosky the most censored man in America? Those seeking to silence him don’t want you to know what he thinks about two issues: 9/11 and the Holocaust.

    Knowing how cynical people are, they’re more likely to think that you’ve either fabricated the whole thing to boost your ailing fundraising drive, or, to be generous, that you’ve grossly misrepresented a minor technical glitch as indicative of a grand conspiracy.

    But if you’re interested in proving the point, why not invite Sabrovsky onto a forthcoming show, and discuss Holocaust revisionism for the whole hour and see what happens.

  38. Geranamo says:

    Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.
    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public. – See more at:Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11

  39. Of course the Zionists brought down the Twin Towers (explosives planted in elevator shaft/core during normal maintenance and detonated by remote control once the planes hit). It was a classic false flag op. leaving the poor arabs holding the bag. The only fly in the ointment was the other plane didn’t hit Building #7.

  40. Cesca says:

    Mossad would have no conscience probs doing 9/11 independently, think it seriously unlikely tho, long term access to WTC 1, 2 and 7 was needed to wire up for the detonations. The US Govt employing Mossad to carry out the atrocity is far more likely imo, offering them a shell of plausible deniability.

    I do personally think Israel is the proverbial tail that wags the dog, they are the stooge of the West in the ME. However, cos they do so many dirty deeds for the West, particularly the US, they know where the bodies are buried, it gives them immense power to call the shots often, cos the West doesn’t want the bodies to be dug up.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    , @Cesca
    , @Cesca
  41. Only Jews can save us from ehhh Jews. You people are out of your minds.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  42. Sparkon says:

    Here all this time I thought that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Myers and Giuliani are Americans, but now I learn they are actually Israelis in drag. Who knew?

    Just one more thing. The Weehawkin 5, sometimes known inaccurately as “the Dancing Israelis” were not dancing at all, but rather were high-fiving, celebrating, and taking pictures.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-dancing-israelis/#comment-2028484

    Working so hard to maintain their cover, the Weehawkin 5 were nevertheless spotted by an attentive near-by reasident.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  43. @joeshittheragman

    Problem: if the “Zionists” knew the planes were going to hit (and the assumption.had to ne that four might hit with equivalent PR impact) what was there to gain by adding complete demolition? Also, why risk a plane failing to hit and the demolition charges being discovered? Why risk the demolitions being so unanswerably obvious that they destroyed the political impact of the planes?

  44. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    [nb: my comment #42 was deleted during the 5 minute edit window as the clock was winding down. I clicked off on both verifications to delete the comment, but it appeared anyway. Below, the edited version:]

    —————–

    Here all this time I thought that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Myers and Giuliani are Americans, but now I learn they are actually Israelis in drag. Who knew?

    Just one more thing. The Weehawken 5, commonly but inaccurately known as “the Dancing Israelis” were not dancing at all, but rather were smiling, hugging, and giving each other high fives while taking photographs and videos.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-dancing-israelis/#comment-2028484

    Despite keeping a low profile to maintain their cover, the Weehawken 5 nevertheless somehow drew the attention of nearby residents, who called the cops.

  45. Cesca says:
    @anarchyst

    Israelis are nowhere near the top ten in the current pseudo Intelligence test and they will be less in the one i’m devising, which has great backers.

    Atm, a true intelligence test is on the way and it will be published, i’m also one of the best debaters around.

    • Replies: @Gemjunior
  46. Sabroskys statement on 911 is true and every thinking American knows that zionist Israel and the zionist controlled deep state did 911 to benefit Israel by giving the excuse to destroy the mideast for Israel and the zionist NWO!

    • Agree: 2stateshmustate
    • Replies: @Z-man
  47. @Haxo Angmark

    “…Sabrosky’s right about 9/11 as a Zionist plot, and proven so by any number of data points…”

    Some solid clues became known only much later, such as the forensic evidence of micro-thermite in dust samples, or seismographic readings correlating with multiple explosions. However, there were already very blatant anomalies as the event was still unfolding, from which critical observers could derive obvious conclusions, for instance:

    • Ehud Barak just ever-so-coincidentally happened appear at BBC headquarters in London to provide the anchor and framework regarding how this should be interpreted and what needed to be done.

    • George W. Bush continued to remain in the classroom after notification of the plane hitting the second tower, yet no immediate evacuation since Secret Service already knew he was not in danger.

    • The phrase “New Pearl Harbor” was used repeatedly by narrators, invoking imagery in the three-hour film Pearl Harbor that had been shown in movie theaters that summer to “prime” for the event.

    In other words, the smart people could already figure out at the outset who was behind this operation. The accumulated evidence that became known in subsequent days merely reinforced that initial understanding. This event serves as an important litmus test, that separates sophisticated observers from the masses of gullible and intimidated conformists.

  48. Anon[180] • Disclaimer says:

    9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB – HERE IS THE PROOF:

    When structural engineers design a stationary structure, such as a bridge or a building, they use an engineering “factor of safety,” which determines how much stronger the structure has to be, than the possible maximum load on the structure. A bride has to be five times stronger than the maximum weight of all the possible vehicles crossing the bridge, at any one time. Structural engineers know there are large commercial and military airplanes that may fly into a standing building, so they design the building to be able to withstand five large airplanes hitting the building, all at the same time.

    FIVE LARGE AIRPLANES HITTING A WORLD TRADE CENTER BUILDING, AT THE SAME TIME, WOULD NOT HAVE BROUGHT THE BUILDING DOWN!

    THEREFORE, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ONLY ONE LARGE AIRPLANE TO HAVE BROUGHT A WORLD TRADE BUILDING DOWN; CONSEQUENTLY, 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

  49. A crucial step in removing the Nine-Eleven conspiracy from the crackpot ledger would be to explain how the buildings were rigged for demo without it being noticed. This would require knowing something about controlled demolition. If the truthers do not demonstrate plausibility, reasonable people will assume that they cannot.

  50. Rurik says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    And to wonder why the foundational sacred narratives of the state of Israel, population 8 million, became the most sacred narratives of the West

    actually the meme has more to do with how, rather than why

    the why = has to do with a netherworld imperative to dominate and exploit, tribalism and genocidal hatred.

    These people hate Jews. More than anyone else, White Nationalists hate Jews and are not afraid of expressing it with thousands of different memes….

    I wouldn’t characterize it as ‘hate’. That’s how the Jewish supremacists characterize any criticism of their myriad schemes for Zionism, war and genocide = ‘hate’. (specifically anti-Semitism, or irrational hatred of Jews).

    But that’s not what it is. It isn’t hate, but rather a survival response to hate. Or simply the truth. Truth = hate to a Zionist, Jewish supremacist. Just ask Dr. Sabrosky.

    If a Palestinian says Zionists are criminals and murderers and thieves, then most honest and knowledgeable people would simply concede that such is the objective and obvious truth. At least for those Zionists murdering and stealing in the Holy Land, or facilitating such.

    But all Jewish supremacists would call such truth = hate.

    And similarly, if an Alt-righter were to say that Barbara Spectre was motivated by a genocidal hatred to see Sweden sent reeling into the abyss of strife and misery, they too would be doing nothing more than speaking the obvious and objective truth, which of course we all know would be mischaracterized by many as ‘hate’.

    When Germany tried to expel the Jews from Germany, they were accused of hate. But who were the original haters? The Germans who graciously invited the Jews in (as they were running for their lives from Cossacks and Russians), and given succor in Germany..

    Or the Bolshevik, Jewish supremacists who tried to (and did to untold millions) genocide the Germans off the planet?

    If you’re responding to a genocidal scheme to replace you in your own lands, and call out the people doing it, is that hate? Because you’re resisting your own ethnic cleansing and marginalization and ultimate replacement? This is hate?

    I don’t think so. I think it’s just being rational and telling the (obvious by now) truth.

    And that goes for Palestine, the Golan Heights, Germany, England and even here in the good ol’ ZUS of A.

    Bibi = Noel Ignatiev

    • Agree: DESERT FOX, ThreeCranes
    • Replies: @anarchyst
    , @Bill Jones
  51. Rurik says:
    @anarchyst

    It’s not “smarts” or “IQ” that gives jews an advantage over gentile whites, but is their rabid insistence on cultural and social cohesiveness, insularity and nepotism (but only for themselves) that gives them an “advantage”.

    the cohesiveness would be nothing without the Fed

    If America printed its own money, as it’s constitutionally obliged to, then the power of the J-supremacists would dry up overnight.

    When you can hit a few keys on your computer and create trillions of dollars of the world’s ‘reserve’ currency, you call all the shots. Period.

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
    , @Iris
  52. anarchyst says:
    @Anon

    Let’s not forget that Israel has blackmailed the world with its “Samson Option”.
    If a nuclear device is “lit off” in an American or European city, it will have Israel’s fingerprints all over it. Israel is desperate to keep the American money spigot running, as well as sabotaging the Palestinian “peace process” that the world wants it to take seriously.
    In fact, if a nuclear device is “lit off” anywhere in the world, it will have come from Israel’s secret nuclear “stockpile”.
    Israel refuses to abide by IAEA guidelines concerning its nukes as they are already distributed around the world. Israel would not be able to produce all of them as most of them are not in Israel, proper. No delivery systems are needed as Israel’s nukes are already in place. Look for another false flag operation with the blame being put on Iran or Syria. You can bet that some Iranian or Syrian passports will be found in the rubble.
    Israel has also threatened to detonate nuclear devices in several US cities. Talk about total INSANITY; the so-called Samson Option is it.
    American foreign aid is prohibited from being given to any country that has not signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (the Symington Amendment)or refuses to abide by International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) guidelines regarding its nuclear devices. Guess what?? Israel does not abide by EITHER and still gets the majority of American foreign aid. This prohibition also applies to countries that do not register their agents of a foreign government with the U S State Department. Guess what?? Israel (again) with its American Israel Political Action Committee (AIPAC) still gets “foreign aid” in contravention of American law..

  53. anarchyst says:
    @Rurik

    How were the jewish internationalists able to get away with it?
    The answer is: easy…
    Woodrow Wilson was gravely ill for the last few years of his presidency. Only his wife was allowed in the room with him. She shuttled back and forth with vital documents that needed his approval.
    The “fix” was in…

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Haxo Angmark
  54. Rurik says:
    @eah

    The fact that he hails from a Jewish background makes him…that much more credible.

    I don’t see why — ?

    because the paradigm (or matrix) we’ve all been systematically marinated in for over a hundred years, is that Jews are perennially innocent victims of irrational anti-Semitism, and that anyone who criticizes anything that a Jew does, is ultimately motivated by an irrational and intractable hatred for Jews. (Nazi/KKK/David Duke/terrorist) And that goes for Palestinians as much as American victims of 9/11.

    If your husband died in the terror attacks on 9/11, and you blamed Israel, then most of the people in America would simply kneejerk assume that you had become demented somewhere along the line, and had descended into a hysterical and irrational ‘hatred of Jews’.

    What other motivation could you possibly have for criticizing Israel?!

    So when a Jew criticizes Israel, the programmed kneejerk motivation for doing so becomes somewhat muted. ‘Wow’, the sheople contorts in his programmed mind, why would he hate himself?!

    • Replies: @Sean
  55. Cesca says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Pretty easy Fred, 9/11 needed to be based around the central core not all over the building, which is where the lifts were. Just make it look like maintenance.

  56. Fakaza 2019 says: • Website

    Woodrow Wilson was gravely ill for the last few years of his presidency. Only his wife was allowed in the room with him. She shuttled back and forth with vital documents that needed his approval.

    nonsense

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  57. Rurik says:
    @anarchyst

    Woodrow Wilson was gravely ill for the last few years of his presidency.

    yes but he betrayed America, his oath, his office, the people of America, and indeed doomed Western civilization to depraved dissolution – all while he was lucid.

    He does not deserve a pass for what he did. Quite the contrary. He should go down as the worst traitor to his people of all time. At the bottom of Dante’s n’th. Down there with Judas, having his eyes plucked out by crows for eternity.

    • Agree: anarchyst, DESERT FOX
  58. Anon[570] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Your Chaimstream version of 9-11 bankrupted all demolition companies, because that day proved that all one needs to drop a building into its foundational footprint is a simple office fire with papers, an accelerant, and a couple hours. There is nothing a demolition company does that cannot be accomplished much more easily and economically by an arsonist with a match.

    • Replies: @Iris
  59. Rurik says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    explain how the buildings were rigged

    I can’t explain how life came to be, but it’s here.

    It’s enough that we know what’s possible and impossible. And it’s impossible for people to know of building Seven’s collapse before it happened, without advanced knowledge (in other words, it had been rigged). Just as it would have been impossible for the Mossad to know the attack was going to happen without advance knowledge.

    How did the Mossad know? I can’t explain that. But it’s enough to know that they did, and then work backwards. Just like with life. We know it exists, now we can work backwards to try to understand how. Or pretend that it doesn’t exist.

  60. Agent76 says:

    May 25, 2014 FDNY 9/11 Survivor Witness and Whistleblower Speaks on WTC 7

    Listen very carefully starting at the ’20’ second mark! As a firefighter on 9/11, he was at Ground Zero and was there when Building 7 came down.

    Sep 11, 2013 9/11 – Echoes of Darkness [Mini-documentary]

    The powers that be shredded the constitution and took you into a series of wars that have left countless civilians dead based on this event. You owe it to your children and grand children to take another look at it.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  61. Che Guava says:
    @anarchyst

    I agree, in principle, and most Jews, in my experience, both in Japan and abroad, are pretty horrible, they aren’t all so.

    I have never met Mr. Unz, but he is our host, but I think I would like him if I were to meet him. Although, from his phrasing in his good articles, he may express himself a little ponderously.

    When learning of Jews overseas (I had no idea before that most so set themselves apart), the process was exposure to suspicion and whining.

    However, I met exceptions, two pretty art-scene women, one film-buff man, all quite close friends. The film-fan spoke with a very exaggerated version of Woody Allen accent. He knew so much about films!

    From what I read since, I suppose, what is called ‘Sephardi’, dark skin, very hairy.

    Israelis, OTOH, I have only met in Japan, and from my sample (25 or so), they all had descipable points. Whether running illegal street stalls, selling illegal drugs, working as escorts (they all had a connection to the second point), then whining about the police enforcing the law, not at that time, being deported, but the govt. stopped all of their nonsense.

    Once or twice, I met older Israelis, I was thinking ‘wow, these people will make more sense’, but I came away with the feeling (and saying to others at times since) ‘these people are far more arrogant than the worst of our fascists, or of National Socialists.’

    I have a few of friends from our extreme right.

    None match the Israelis for supercilious and baseless arrogance. For the former, if you can speak Japanese, or they can speak what language you speak, they do not adopt automatic distrust, automatic supremacy.

    I am sure (but not very), if one is to visit Israel, one may find different types of people, but unlikely, and I have been mentally ‘boycott Israel’ for many years, I really wanted to visit Syria.

    That they have largely wrecked Syrian antiquities does not make me wish to visit Israel.

  62. @Frederick V. Reed

    The elevator shafts offered easy access to the core columns. People who worked in the Towers were heavily inconvenienced by the unusual amount of “elevator work” that transpired in 2001. A minor and allegedly mobbed up elevator company called Ace Elevator, rather than the standard big companies, did the work. Highly suspicious details are at http://aneta.org/911experiments_com/AceElevator/ .

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
    , @DESERT FOX
    , @Saggy
  63. Anon[570] • Disclaimer says:
    @TKK

    MSM, say you?

    • Replies: @vagabondtheelder
    , @Wally
  64. Anon[570] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    Wrong analogy for a “intelligent design” creationist. Fred has a penchant for “TADA!”

  65. republic says:

    https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2018/Human%20Costs%2C%20Nov%208%202018%20CoW.pdf

    And they have murdered 32 million Muslims, and created tens of millions of refugees, in the 9/11 wars for Israel.

    The Brown University study shows deaths from the post 9/11 wars in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan at around 500,000, and 0ther 500,000 from the Syrian war since 2011

    • Replies: @annamaria
  66. Che Guava says:

    I don’t know of this Sabrosky.

    As for ‘most censored on the Internet’, that would go to

    1. Brenton Tarrant

    2. Andrew Anglin & Assoc.

    3. Alex Jones.

    not Sabrosky, no matter how interesting his ideas may be.

  67. Zumbuddi says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Off topic:
    Is Debbie Menon still around and perched in The Catbird Seat?

    How about Taxi ?

  68. Brenton didn’t say “Israelis are fine”, he said Jews are fine in Israel. I think this goes against the false-flag idea, because if (((they)))’d wanted his manifesto to be dismissed, it would have ranted against Jews. As it was, he got a lot of support from anti-muslim people, which I’m sure was his intent.

  69. @Rurik

    There’s a lot of stupid on the thread in here, but bro, anyone reading your posts is likely to suffer the most.

    Someone else asked you

    explain how the buildings were rigged

    and you responded with

    I can’t explain how life came to be, but it’s here.

    Really though, I just came to say it’s funny all the lemmings rush to comment on everything but flat earth because a guy’s mic went out.

    — ah, Veteran’s Today, should’ve checked the author before opening the link.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  70. @Kevin Barrett

    In addition see Dr. Judy Woods site drjudywood.com and her videos on youtube and her book Where Did The Towers Go and April Gallops videos where she tells of the demolition on the pentagon where her office was, her videos on youtube.

  71. Saggy says: • Website
    @Kevin Barrett

    First – I agree that Mossad probably masterminded 9/11, but then, it would be nice to have some actual evidence, which Sabrosky does not.

    Second, it’s easy to see that the truthers’ claim that the buildings were wired with explosives is absurd, for several reasons –

    #1 – The whole premise of the truthers is that the feds wired the buildings with explosives, and then used drones or Arab stooges to mask their activities by flying planes into the buildings. But, that premise is absurd because they couldn’t and didn’t fly a plane into WTC 7.

    #2 – See how building is prepared for demolition – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5IgqJXyLbg, it’s an extensive involved process that takes place throughout the entire building. It can’t be done when a building is occupied, much less done unobserved.

    #3 – WTC 7 and the south tower collapsed in completely different ways, which would not have happened had they been wired. WTC 7 collapsed from below, with all floors of WTC 7 beginning to fall simultaneously when the collapse starts. The south tower collapsed from above, with each floor not beginning to fall until the collapsing top floor reaches it. The difference is dramatic and easily observable:
    South tower at 0:20
    WTC 7 at 0:28
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W00HXsep_c

  72. @Frederick V. Reed

    Something people may not have connected, when the World Trade Center was truckbombed in 1993
    the same culprits were no doubt involved.
    I don’t know if my understanding is incorrect, wasn’t the whole place shut down ( closed)for almost a whole year? This was for maintenance ,repairs ,safety . I could be wrong ,but this would provide ample time to wire the buildings for demolition. Only thing after that is a little patience.

    It’s also true that our enemies definitely are playing a long game. They have patience , it’s ours that is getting short.

  73. j2 says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    “A crucial step in removing the Nine-Eleven conspiracy from the crackpot ledger would be to explain how the buildings were rigged for demo without it being noticed. This would require knowing something about controlled demolition. If the truthers do not demonstrate plausibility, reasonable people will assume that they cannot.”

    You do not need to know anything about commercial controlled demolition in order to produce an explanation that is better than the official explanation and explains your concerns. All you need to know is a well-known military pioneer trick that all armies know.

    We start from this that you support the official theory: thus you believe that if one floor in a WTC building burns because of the airplane crash, the fire weakens steel pillars and the result is the collapse that was seen. So, let us assume fire can weaken pillars and the building then crashes down, but let us assume the fire was not jet fuel and office stuff burning but that it was made by placing to one floor incendiatory devices next to steel columns. As this is an old way military brings down power lines, the expertise (the little of it what is needed here) was easy to find. It requires only a few men, a number of incenditory devices and little time. Assuming that the official theory that fire can bring down the building just as was seen in the videos, this modification can do it just as or better well as a plane. As you can calculate the burning time and energy, you get all columns to collapse at the same time. Additionally you have enough material that burns with a very high temperature to explain the high temperatures of Ground Zero.

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  74. Zumbuddi says:
    @Fakaza 2019

    My head is so thoroughly tin foiled that I believe Wilson’s second wife was ‘selected for him.

    Untermeyer paid off Wilson’s paramour/blackmailed (shades of Michael Cohen) in exchange for appointment of Louis Brandeis to SCOTUS.

    From that post, paid by U S taxpayers, Brandeis grinned up TWO wars, and according to Jeff Rosen (now Head of U S Constitution center in Phila.!), is the Jewish Zionist most responsible for establishment of The Jewish State. Rosen adores Brandeis.

    Back to Wilson & Edith: Wilson was a weak & vainglorius man who needed constant Handling, which Edith supplied.

    A spate of books in hero worship of Edith further persuade me she was a tool of The Fiend. (Jews control most major publishing houses, even university presses.)

  75. Z-man says:
    @DESERT FOX

    Sabroskys statement on 911 is true and every thinking American knows that zionist Israel and the zionist controlled deep state did 911 to benefit Israel by giving the excuse to destroy the mideast for Israel and the zionist NWO!

    My agree button is disabled. (Grin)

    • Agree: Rurik
    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
  76. DaveE says:

    Things like 9/11 truth and anti-Semitism are not motivated by hate. They are motivated by LOVE. Love of truth, love of justice and love of our fellow man. (at least the Gentile ones…..)

    People like Mr. Sabrosky and Mr. Barrett and many others who have worked tirelessly, for many years with next to no pay, are the Saints of the modern world. (If I were a Christian I’m sure I could dig up some NT quotes about self-sacrifice for righteous causes, but I’m not.)

    Carry on fighting The Devil, Mssrs. Sabrosky and Barrett. Your work inspires all non-idiots who are motivated by LOVE.

    • Agree: Iris
  77. @Z-man

    Thanks, on the site whatreallyhappened.com there is an article titled, 911 index what really happened, just scroll down on the homepage, has a lot of information on what really happened on 911.

  78. Rurik says:
    @vagabondtheelder

    and you responded with

    I can’t explain how life came to be, but it’s here.

    OK, for the simpletons out there

    the reason the ‘intelligent design’ meme is analogous to the implosion of building Seven..

    is because both events (advent and existence of life and the controlled demolition of building seven) are manifestly, glaringly obvious.

    But some people have a penchant for cognitive dissociation when it comes to events they find unpalatable or inconvenient.

    So when you point out that life exists, even when its origins can not be explained, it only requires a very short trip in logic to see that there are other events that also are quite obvious, even tho you’re not privy to their technological or logistic (or organic) origins.

    In other words the fact that you can’t always explain exactly how an event was coordinated or facilitated, does not mean the event did not take place, especially when its manifestations are as brutally obvious as the nose on your face.

    because a guy’s mic went out.

    Not because a guy’s mic went out, but because a cohort of fiends conceived and carried out the most heinous, monstrously criminal act on American soil in all history, and have used that enormity to foist Endless Wars for Israel, and the concurrent subversion of American’s constitutional rights. Ushering in a Total Surveillance police state, and murdering and maiming and droning millions of innocent people all over the planet.

    For the record.

    But please, let’s due keep this conversation going.. because as your shill your obfuscations, readers out there are being edified..

  79. Wally says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    Poor Haxo Angmark, an empty vessel.

    I have challenged him repeatedly to give us proof of his sacred religion, the “holocaust”.
    He has failed utterly, but he faithfully believes.

    I’m just the messenger, the absurd stupidity and impossibility of the “holocaust” narrative is the message.

    Cheers.

    • Agree: apollonian
  80. Wally says:
    @TKK

    said:
    “This Jewish obsession on this site to link every single tragedy to Jewish strategy, every bit of Jewish history as false was comical. But it has reached repellent stupidity.”

    – The typical hasbarist strawman.

    – No one says “every single tragedy”, but there are factual reasons why they are disliked worldwide.

    – However, The Usual Enemies of Free Speech certainly are being nailed for what they did do, and it’s about time. The fact that it’s a long list speaks of Jew behaviour, nothing else, they did what they obviously did.

    – For the life of me I cannot think of a single group that has been claiming ‘6,000,000’ dead since at least 1823.

    The fact is you have no rational rebuttal and resort to false arguments.
    You’re fooling no one.

  81. anarchyst says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    That’s easy…anyone who knows anything about building maintenance is aware that there are all kinds of “maintenance people” running around in any large building, and that they remain relatively unnoticed.
    Not “rocket science”…

  82. republic says:

    A lot more Americans are becoming aware of Israel’s role in 9/11. This is probably the reason behind the increasing censorship on various websites and social media platforms.

    Many people living abroad are much more aware of the true actors behind 9/11.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  83. wayfarer says:

    “Books Banned, Ideas Censored, We Are in the Dystopian Future”

  84. Suicide bombers and shooters don’t make much sense unless you include handlers and hypnotists.
    Below is a link to a credible video that I watched on ‘Discovery’ channel some years ago.

    I think almost all the mass murderers are primed and controlled by different nations. The New Zealand massacre was just one of the many.

    The subject has to have some antipathy towards the victims and this is amplified/exploited by the handler/hypnotist.

    People shy away from hypnosis as it negates their idea of free will and autonomy and violates the core of our being.

    But the fact that it works (hypnosis/mesmerism) is undeniable.

  85. @Wizard of Oz

    Why risk the demolitions being so unanswerably obvious that they destroyed the political impact of the planes?

    Maybe the “planes” were like the whale in the gym, or the polar bears in the shopping mall.

  86. @Rurik

    One does not edify others by calling them names, or overtly conveying to them that he is tbeir educator and from him they are to gain gheir understanding of the world, or through any of that curtness, or affirming his affirmation (or demonstrations) with growing loudness and loud terms (obvious, glaringly,…).

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @ThreeCranes
  87. @renfro

    What/whom is your comment addressed at?

  88. @Wizard of Oz

    You make no sense.
    The complete demolition was to make a bigger impact. Just four or five floors destroyed in each tower is logical to an average Joe but the shekels to silverstien and CIA records in building #7 had to be obliterated too.
    And limited damage wouldn’t classify as a ‘Second Pearl Harbor’.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  89. Damn, is Ron is going to screw us at a future date?
    Read what it says at the bottom of the comment section.

    Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter.

    I hope anonymity will be maintained by Ron Unz.

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @ThreeCranes
    , @Wade
  90. Anon[180] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    “There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.”
    ― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Boscombe Valley Mystery

    “How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?” ― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Sign of Four

    “Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell.”
    ― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The Adventure of the Copper Beeches

  91. @Escher

    If criminals were “imperfect” in their crime that does not mean their crime was not real.
    Criminals make mistakes, just like ordinary people do.

  92. Rurik says:
    @atlantis_dweller

    One does not edify others by calling them names

    well, I was going to call you a dickweed, because you obviously didn’t bother to read what I was responding to:

    There’s a lot of stupid on the thread in here, but bro, anyone reading your posts is likely to suffer the most.

    But then I figured perhaps you’re just lazy, and not necessarily being a pompous arse.

    So you see, I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt.

    tbeir educator and from him they are to gain gheir [sic] understanding of the world

    I’m no educator, just a humble voice of truth on the Internet. All I’m doing is pointing out glairing and obvious absurdities for others to check out for themselves what the truth is, and thereby get edified.

    curtness

    “Curtness”?!

    Heaven forfend that I should ever be ‘curt’ to some imbecile who just called me stupid.

    Not that I’m not, 😉 but it wasn’t for that particular commenter to make that particular judgment call.

    growing loudness and loud terms (obvious, glaringly,…).

    Well, I was kind of hoping that the notion of life existing, would be one thing that we call all agree up0n was glaringly obvious . So that we could then extrapolate from there that certain other things that are glaringly obvious, like knowing building Seven was going to fall before it did, is prima facia evidence that there was foreknowledge, and therefor that means the building was wired for a controlled demolition. Because no one could have anticipated it, (let alone reported on it), if they didn’t already know it was going to collapse. ‘Look out for that building, it’s about to come down’

    or ‘ maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.’ And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.”.

    How’s that for a doozie, eh?

    But the most damning are the news reports of it collapsing before it did.

    You’d have to be extremely obtuse not to see that as glaringly obvious evidence, (proof even) that some people knew the building was going to collapse, and so from there, I leave it to you to edify yourself as to what’s is glaringly obvious.

  93. @Rev. Spooner

    Why would the CIA records have to be destroyed by Mossad? Or were the CIA complicit?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  94. @republic

    My impression is that 9/11 trutherism is all but dead in the water. I can’t think of any prominent Alt-righters who endorse it. Has Alex Jones moved on too?

  95. MEFOBILLS says:
    @lavoisier

    The man sure has a lot of courage.

    I measure people by how far they have traveled, not where they are.

    A Jew that becomes morally outraged, and then takes on Zionism and other outrageous Jewish narratives, has traveled far indeed.

    They are to be applauded above all others. Generally people like this e.g. Gilad Atzmon, no longer ascribe to Jewish in-group narratives, and instead walk their own path.

    • Replies: @Sean
  96. republic says:

    https://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/doug-casey-on-what-happens-after-the-next-911/

    Doug Casey, who currently lives in Argentina thinks that another 9/11 is very possible,
    And that it will be another false flag , to usher in some new aggression abroad and
    To institute a real police state in the US.

    It is highly probably that such a plan has already been prepared and just waiting for the opportune
    Time to implement it.

  97. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Rurik

    When you can hit a few keys on your computer and create trillions of dollars of the world’s ‘reserve’ currency, you call all the shots. Period.

    Tribesters have been running their usury money magic schemes since forever.

    Haibaru donkey Caravaneers have donkey bones interred outside gates of Sumer. (Haibaru’s were a proto Hebrew speaking tribe.)

    In those days, there were entrepot cities located between City States. Caravaneers were merchants who traveled between city states, and were comprised of peoples from entrepot cities, often peoples who were outcast. In other words, the big city states would kick out people for crimes, and the criminals would soon reside in an entrepot lawless city. Entrepot cities still exist today, such as off shore banking centers like the Cayman Islands.

    In those days you would be shunned and kicked out if your crimes were egregious enough – this was the punishment, not going to jail.

    The notion of merchant money issued by the merchant as credit, or credit riding on gold, or other tricks goes back deep into history. The merchant is always standing at the gates intent on tearing down the city state, or whatever civilization they target.

    Our friends took rents on the east-west movement of silver-gold. This secret method of exchange rate thefts on gold/silver movement funded the tribe for centuries. Our friends tried to get Greeks into silver debts by using clay tablets to mark up a debt relations, and then making silver dear during harvest season. This then allowed our friends to grab Greek lands, or impress Greek farmers as slaves, to pay off the debts. Or, the highly lucrative slave trade, as Jewish capital funded slave movement into Muslim lands.

    Our friends ran laundering schemes around the Mediterranean, as they had their merchant brothers in all city ports, much like they did in entrepot cities in preceding centuries.

    The Jew is an evolutionary construct, evolved to take rents and steal. Much of this method is passed down verbally, in secret – hence the verbal tradition. Other groups, like the Roma have tribal memory and method, and so does the Jew.

    Granted, getting rid of the FED would be great, but something like what Justinian (in Byzantium) did would be more permanent. That is, prevent Jews from certain occupations – most especially money/banking. They also couldn’t be school teachers, or in government positions.

    Based on history, Justinian was correct.

    Expulsion is the other method, but the Jew always sneaks back in, so he can feast on the “mark.”

    Today, conveniently, if Jews are expelled, they have a country they can go to. Note that many refuse to return, and prefer to say in host countries.

    To my mind, expulsion is the best solution, that way the future is preserved, and our sons/daughters won’t be cursing us (their forefathers).

  98. Sean says:
    @Rurik

    The original JFJ conspiracy theory implicating LBJ was originated b 100% Jewish Jews such as Mark Lane, and the original 9/11 conspiracy theory was by a Jew. The prime movers in organised anti Zionism are humanistic Jewish intellectuals many of them Israeli.

    • Troll: Rurik
    • Replies: @Wally
  99. republic says:
    @Henry's Cat

    My impression is that virtually all alt-Right groups have been compromised and are essentially controlled by the Zionists.

    classical controlled opposition.

    Jones for sure.

    Interestingly both Assange and Snowden accept the official 9/11 narrative

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Henry's Cat
    , @Wally
    , @Rurik
  100. Sean says:
    @MEFOBILLS

    No. Jews like Mary-Kay Wilmers, Atzmon and Stephen Rose are the cutting edge and prime movers of the anti Israel movement. Pro Palestinian activism is really an argument between Jews. Only intellectual Jews have the brains, the academic achievements, and the money to get traction in anti Israel activism. Zionist Jews pretend the white Gentile anti-Semites are the main force behind opposing the military Zionist policies of Israel, but it is really the Jewish intelligentsia who are Israel’s mortal enemy.

    • Agree: annamaria
    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
  101. j2 says:
    @republic

    “My impression is that virtually all alt-Right groups have been compromised and are essentially controlled by the Zionists.”

    That is the traditional way this conspiracy has always worked. Then it tries to turn controlled opposition groups to violent actions. A classic case.

  102. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website

    More kookery.

    These Western institutions either support or don’t oppose Wars for Israel that killed a million Muslims, BUT they make a big fuss about a t-shirt.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/why-is-cambridge-afraid-of-jordan-peterson/

    The policy is “Do but don’t say.” Do wage wars and kill countless Muslims but do NOT say ‘Muzzies suck’. After all, if you say it while doing it, stupid Muslims might finally wake up, unite as one faith and civilization, and fend off the West(under control of Zionists).
    But as long as the West says ‘We love Muslims’ while killing bushels of them, there will always be Muslims who will ally with the West in wars against fellow Muslims.

    Sticks and Stones May Kill tons of Muslims, but Words will never alert them.

  103. @republic

    But how – I mean, by what methods – are they compromised? Are you sure that 9/11 trutherism isn’t itself a false flag meant to distract, divide and confuse? And you, how can I trust you? These are slippery sands…

    • Replies: @Gg Mo
  104. anonomy says:

    The 9/11 truth movement was started by the left, not alt-right, or right as some people might suggest. But it’s simple deduction, ( I just watched Sherlock Holmes), They all vote on the same side, both the Jews in America and the Muslims, of course along with all the others, crying about injustices in foreign lands, that someone (us) needs to do something about. Don’t believe that the left is that way, just look at Congress members travel, hard to tell who votes for them and what country. Almost every site on the internet tilts left. You’d be surprised to know that there are many Jewish folks who feel just like you, 🙁 the poor Palestinians, thousands of miles away, needs more “democracy”.
    Now look at the right compared to the left as in violence. How many cowboys do you see blow things up or attack large groups of people? The Mormons? People who like the Hobby Lobby and eat Chic Fil A. Even white supremacists numbers would be lower for plowing planes into buildings. Now look left. I’m not going any further, I’ll spare you, but some people do things and lead you totally in the wrong direction.

  105. Wally says:
    @republic

    said:
    “My impression is that virtually all alt-Right groups have been compromised and are essentially controlled by the Zionists.”

    If they all take the ridiculous “holocaust” bait then you are certainly correct.
    http://www.codoh.com

  106. Wally says:
    @Sean

    LOL

    So Jews try to tell us.

    Jews: the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral

    • Replies: @Sean
  107. wayfarer says:

    “Zionist Connections to the New Zealand Mosque Massacre”

    • Replies: @DESERT FOX
    , @Sean
  108. Wally says:
    @Henry's Cat

    LOL
    You’re simply engaging in attempted & unconvincing hasbarist distraction.
    I suggest:
    Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
    https://www.ae911truth.org/
    “More than 3,000 architects and engineers have signed our petition”

    Many informative sections & research there, such as:

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    , @Incitatus
  109. Wally says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    Don’t post here if you don’t like it.

  110. @joeshittheragman

    Succinct and on target.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  111. Rurik says:
    @MEFOBILLS

    To my mind, expulsion is the best solution, that way the future is preserved, and our sons/daughters won’t be cursing us (their forefathers).

    First end the Fed

    then ban all dual citizens from positions in government or banking, whether they’re Canadian or Israeli. No dual citizens in any positions of influence.

    I suspect that in itself would go a long way towards sorting it all out.

    Sound money would leave them pounding sand. Sound money (gold and silver backed currency, issued by the US Treasury sans anyone (((fingers)))) is the ultimate anti-Semite.

    Cheers.

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @Miro23
  112. Rurik says:
    @republic

    My impression is that virtually all alt-Right groups have been compromised and are essentially controlled by the Zionists.

    anytime someone tells you that ‘but he’s a leader of the Alt-right, and he says.. blah, blah, blah…

    they’re full of shit, and you’re right, there is no leader of the so-called Alt-right.

    The Alt-right are basically the Joe Sobran wing of conservatism before Bill Buckley betrayed Joe and sold his soul to Jewish supremacism for his thirty shekels.

    (I sense there are lots of Bill Buckleys out there in the world posing as conservatives and straight-talkers but who’re really bought and paid for shills for Zion).

    The Alt-right are simply people who don’t like ‘in and out-sourcing, don’t like PC culture, don’t like massive immigration and La Raza and BLM supremacists that ignore white men being murdered by cop also.

    Basically rational people of all races and creeds that are against the Eternal Wars for Israel, and the ‘in your face’ Globohomo.

    They are also part of the ‘9/11 truther movement, at least once they’ve been woke. That’s our job.

    It’s obviously more complicated than that, but that’s the gist of it..

  113. If we banned the Fed, how would they loan themselves money with which to buy out America’s tangible assets? How would they have made enough credit available to unqualified home buyers whose loans they processed, bundled and sold as derivatives worldwide to unsuspecting investors?

    The template was formulated by the hostile takeover artists of the 70’s and 80’s. “Why not”, they asked themselves, “use the same technique on a broader scale and buy the entire country?” “And then, the World!” chime in the globalists. “It’s so audacious that no-one will grasp what’s happening until too late.”

    • Agree: wayfarer, ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Gg Mo
  114. Robjil says:
    @Henry's Cat

    It is realism. No towers ever fell from a plane crashing in them. None fell like a control demolition – ever.

    Santa Clausism is what our “free” press MSM is selling. Big H is a big Santa Claus one that our “free” press sells for Israel to get a free press forever. No investigations or realism is ever “allowed”. Santa Clausism is what we are dealing with the past hundred years since the Fed in 1913.

    Our “free” press does not question why Seven nations must be destroyed. It worries about the tiniest insults or peccadillos but destroying seven nations is nothing to them. This Seven nations to destroy theme comes from Deuteronomy 7.1-2. I thought our “free” press is for separation of church/synagogue and state.

    Santa Clausism has been going for decades now. When will our “free” press ever “allow” us to grow up. Grown ups question and investigate everything. Santa Clausists just believe whatever our “free” press says and repeats it back to each other.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  115. Rurik says:
    @ThreeCranes

    @joeshittheragman

    Succinct and on target.

    yep

  116. Iris says:
    @Rurik

    “the cohesiveness would be nothing without the Fed”

    Great summary.

    And it is by their control over worthless fiat currencies that the Hebraic bankers can, at no cost, grab ever growing sections of the real economy and world riches. A broad daylight Talmudic robbery.

  117. Iris says:
    @Anon

    Thanks for the laugh. Best

  118. @wayfarer

    The NZ deal was a psyop , no one died, the whole deal was a staged event by the deep state for gun control, just like the ones in the US.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @wayfarer
  119. @Henry's Cat

    And let’s remember there is no possibility of there being any copy of those CIA records backed up elsewhere and no possibility that someone in the CIA (perhaps a Giraldi wannabe) who complains about the destruction of those records that he wanted to consult…..

  120. Sean says:
    @wayfarer

    Zionist connection to Kevin Bacon?

  121. @El Dato

    … they dropped the mask…

    Hey dawg, you just dropped something!

  122. Sean says:
    @DESERT FOX

    New Zealand! Crucial geopolitical pivot of world influence.

  123. @anarchyst

    Increasingly, jews are more wary of being “called out” and recognized as “jews”. One can call a jew a shyster, shylock, bankster, criminal or ne-er-do-well, and it will roll off his back like water off a duck, BUT call a jew a “jew”, and he will recoil in horror, having been “found out”.

    That quote sounds like something Douglas Reed said, and while searching for it, I stumbled upon this, which may ring a few bells. In fact, the whole (very short) article is worth a read.

    The peasant is entirely in the hands of the Jews. If he has any money and wishes to buy anything, he must buy it from a Jew. If he has no money, and needs to borrow some for his taxes or his mortgage, he must borrow it from a Jew. If he has something to sell, he can only sell it to the Jewish dealers. If he wishes to hire a plough, he must hire it, at a high rate, from a Jew.

    The Jew and the Peasant, by Douglas Reed

    Note: For some unknown reason I am currently unable to edit my comments or even view them until they’ve been permanently posted.

  124. @Wally

    Almost every post I see now from the dwindling band of 9/11 truthers concentrates on WTC7. They seem to think it’s their only trump card left. Yes, the circumstances of the collapse of the building are strange, but not I think inexplicable. But what I still don’t get is why that building had to come down at all? The usual proferred reasons are too absurd for words.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Sean
    , @Wally
  125. @Wizard of Oz

    And let’s remember there is no possibility of there being any copy of those CIA records backed up elsewhere…

    And, let us add, that there is of course absolutely no possibility whatsoever that some shadowy Deep State cabal capable of orchestrating a massive false flag involving multiple government agencies in several countries, four passenger jets, the entire news media, insurance companies, fake-movers-cum-demolition experts, and God knows who else (and about which none of the conspirators has ever said a word), could not have found some simpler way of just removing the files from the building, if they really wanted them gone.

  126. Sean says:
    @Wally

    Well they invented the atomic bomb.

    • Replies: @Wally
  127. @Robjil

    How many skyscrapers have ever been hit by a jet-liner? If your sample size is less than three, your inferences are tentative to say the least.

    As for controlled demolitions, you do realise that the most popular theory for how the towers came dpwn rely on the use of thermite not explosives? Care to explain how many controlled demolitions of multi-storey buildings have ever used thermite?

    Take yourself to YouTube and watch closely some videos of how the towers actually collapsed. The collapse begins from the top of the buildings and the building concertinas downwards as the massive weight crushes everything below it. A typical controlled demolition happens by blowing away the supporting columns at the base. So the first floors to give way are at the bottom.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @ThreeCranes
    , @Gg Mo
  128. @MEFOBILLS

    Most interesting comments!

    Our friends took rents on the east-west movement of silver-gold. This secret method of exchange rate thefts on gold/silver movement funded the tribe for centuries. Our friends tried to get Greeks into silver debts by using clay tablets to mark up a debt relations, and then making silver dear during harvest season. This then allowed our friends to grab Greek lands, or impress Greek farmers as slaves, to pay off the debts.

    I’ve “spelunked” in the old silver mines at Laurium, just outside Athens, and have long wondered about the history, but have not yet found the time to get into it. Would you be so gracious as to provide some recommended reading and also a source for what you stated in the “blockquote,” above? I do not doubt it a bit, but find it most interesting. Thanks.

    I am impressed by your comments in general. Very excellent information and insights.

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
  129. wayfarer says:
    @DESERT FOX

    “Apocalyptic End Times – Fanatics Run America”

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @denk
  130. @Wizard of Oz

    One of the skills of seasoned truthers is the ability to keep several balls in the air at one time….

  131. Incitatus says:
    @Wally

    LOL
    You’re simply engaging in attempted & unconvincing hasbarist distraction.
    I suggest:
    Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
    https://www.ae911truth.org/
    “More than 3,000 architects and engineers have signed our petition”

    Actually 3122 architects and engineers [of 933,554] have petitioned for a new investigation after reviewing “informative sections & research”.

    In other words 99.65% professionals haven’t signed the ae911truth petition. Why, Wally?

    Guess what? Many Gage signatories aren’t licensed. Means even fewer legitimate professionals. Sorry.

    Yitzhak Edward Asner (born of Jewish-Russian-born immigrants 1929) is your best shot Wally? He’s your 9/11 WTC source?

    Loved him as Lew Grant. Now he’s just another nut case. Sad.

    Just like you, Wally.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Wally
  132. @Henry's Cat

    …the dwindling band of 9/11 truthers …

    Dwindling? You must be kidding. How did you come to that conclusion?

  133. Incitatus says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    “A crucial step in removing the Nine-Eleven conspiracy from the crackpot ledger would be to explain how the buildings were rigged for demo without it being noticed.”

    One thing is certain. It wasn’t Klingons. Claims 15 of 19 “swarthy humanoids characterized by prideful ruthlessness and brutality” are long disproved, another shameful Deep State red herring. It/they/whatever never happened.

    Hint: check out Romulans. Arch-enemies of the Federation. The cloaking device is key (nudge/nudge/wink/wink).

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+romulan+cloaking+device&view=detail&mid=D0146C7DFB27C4839228D0146C7DFB27C4839228&FORM=VIRE

    “It will be our secret.” Enough said.

    Meanwhile, send your dollars to Richard Gage and ae911truth. His website’s a going concern. 3122 architects and engineers so far, in eighteen (18) years. Of 933,554 architects and engineers in the US [113,554 RAs + 820,000 PEs – source NCARB, NCEES].

    Sure, 99.65% haven’t signed his petition. They’re unpatriotic shills, part of the conspiracy, (whisper) Romulans (?).

    Critics say it’s even worse. Many listed in Gage’s list aren’t licensed professionals, un-credentialed (have no standing) in the USA. So what? Can any doubt their (expertise)?

    Not to worry. “Anyone who knows anything about building maintenance” knows “all kinds of “maintenance people” run “around in any large building” and “remain relatively unnoticed”. Inside tenant space? At grade mining freestanding columns?

    Also “elevator shafts offered easy access to the core columns” and “A minor and allegedly mobbed up elevator company called Ace Elevator, rather than the standard big companies, did the work”.

    Golly. How many core columns (toilet rooms, utility shafts, stairwells, etc.) weren’t accessible from elevator shafts? No matter.

    It’s the thought that counts.

  134. @Escher

    “wouldn’t they cover their tracks better?”

    (((they))) got away with murderous war-scams like the Lusitania episode (via Rothschild property Churchill) and the Pearl Harbor set-up (Churchill + Roosevelt); (((they))) now believe (((they))) can get away with anything, no matter how sloppy. And, so far, (((they))) have been proven correct.

    “Mossad crew”…that stuff is all over Youtube, including vids of the back-in-Israel statements. Just do your own search. And, yes, these are the “dancing Israelis”.

    Reuters re WT7: originally, BBC reported bldg 7 down 15 minutes before it happened. That vid is also on Utube, and is always a good laff: reporter-grl standing there with WT7 clearly looming over her shoulder. BBC, when finally asked about this, responded: “well, that’s what Reuters told us….” At (((Reuters))), apparently, someone screwed up and got ahead of the script. Everyone, including conspirators, makes mistakes.

    “Silverstein is Jewish…other Jews died that day.” Zion has never been averse to sacrificing Jews from the lower orders to further the cause, esp. run-of-the-mill diaspora Jews; cf. also the “holocaust”….when they wrote off 3 million, then claimed 6. W/O which, no Israel. Not too many upper-crust Jews got chopped on 9/11 though. Fr’instance, though nearly everyone @ Cantor-Fitzgerald was killed, the (((bossman))) wasn’t in that day…he “had to drive his son to school”. In fact, both of Lucky Larry’s kids worked in his 85th floor office (N. tower, N. face) too, but they (normally in @8:30) were “delayed in traffic”.

    PNAC manifesto. See: chutzpah, contempt for goyim. Again, so far, (((they))) have gotten away with it. At a wild guess, the next murderous Israel-aggrandizing false flag…will be even more obvious.

  135. Robjil says:

    Why is the date 9/11? This might be the clue. This is from the Sepher Yetzirah, the book of creation, one of the earliest Kabbalistic books. It was written in 200 AD.

    http://648568pray.com/book-of-creation.pdf

    This the fourth verse of chapter one.

    “4. Ten are the numbers of the ineffable (in·ef·fa·ble – defying expression ) Sephiroth (Sephirot the ten attributes that God created through which he can manifest) , ten and not nine, ten and not eleven. Learn this wisdom, and be wise in the understanding of it, investigate these numbers, and draw knowledge from them, fix the design in its purity, and pass from it to its Creator seated on his throne.”

    Notice ten and not nine, ten and not eleven. God has ten attributes not nine or eleven.

  136. @anarchyst

    Woodow Wilson wasn’t gravely ill on 24 December 1913: that’s when (((Rothschild))), (((Warburg))), Morgan, and Rockefeller smuggled the charter for the (((Third National Bank))), alias “Federal Reserve” through an eager-to-adjourn Congress…WW signed on a couple days later. And a debt-financed World War broke out shortly thereafter. Just….another cohencidence.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  137. Iris says:
    @Henry's Cat

    “If your sample size is less than three, your inferences are tentative to say the least.”

    Statistics science has no bearing , structural engineering has.
    The WTC towers were built to sustain the shock of a plane crashing, with a safety margin on top.
    Structural engineering, unlike fluid dynamics or aerodynamics, can be modelled with an extreme precision and produces predictable results. The towers collapsing constitutes not just one, but a quick succession of 3 engineering “miracles” over the span of only a few hours.

    “The collapse begins from the top of the buildings and the building concertinas downwards as the massive weight crushes everything below it”

    In your dreams. An unanswerable argument of the 9/11 Truth movement is precisely that WTC7 fell in free fall.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Henry's Cat
  138. @TKK

    Try to put a cartoon of Mohommad on You Tube and see how fast you are banned.

    So you’re claiming that… Arabs control YouTube? Huh.

    You might want to check your sources on that claim, because, back in the real world, YouTube’s CEO is (((Susan Wojcicki))), ex-sister-in-law of Google founder Sergey Brin.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Wojcicki

    “Wojcicki is the daughter of Esther Wojcicki, an educator of Russian-Jewish descent”

    Needless to say, (((Brin))) is also a member of the Tribe.

    YouTube is not an independent company, of course — it is a subsidiary of Alphabet (Google’s parent company). The president of Alphabet is… (((Sergey Brin))). CEO is (((Larry Page))) — who is a co-ethnic of Brin and Wojcicki’s. The top two shareholders of Alphabet are… Brin and Page, who retain effective overall control of the company.

    But they’ve apparently delegated a lot of the responsibility for YT censorship to an organization called the ADL — what’s that, the Arab Defense League? Perhaps that’s what you’re thinking of…

    This Greenblatt guy looks sorta Middle Eastern/ Levantine. Is he an Arab?

    https://www.adl.org/

    The SPLC is also heavily involved in YouTube censorship — perhaps they’re an Arab/ Muslim organization as well?

    Let’s see what the Jewish Daily Forward has to say:

    https://forward.com/fast-forward/420919/southern-poverty-law-center-fires-founder-morris-dees/

    “The group’s leadership has been heavily Jewish for much of its history.

    Huh. Probably just a cohencidence.

  139. @joeshittheragman

    Not in the elevator shaft, silly. The buildings were 70% vacant. “Renovations” were going on. The stuff was installed professionally and correctly, using double strength explosive, for good measure. 17,000 people walked out. Should have been 50,000 tenants and many thousands more visitors. New York Times said “surprisingly few people came to work that day.” It was surprisingly few every day, that is why they were sold and why they were demolished. Of course, it started 8:46 with a warning explosion in the basement. If it was later, there would have been tourists going up tower two starting at 9 am. Giuliani, being very humane, would not have wanted the tourists to be endangered. Foreign governments nosing around, you know? There was no “other” plane. There were “no planes” at all. There was only a decoy plane flying around to make noise and be seen. Get your dream straight or you will never wake up. Or were you one of those planted on the ground to yell “a plane hit the building!”?

  140. aandrews says:
    @wayfarer

    At 13:00 forward…two things, though. They’ve got Tarrant alive, who can be interrogated six ways from Sunday, and, supposedly, a bunch of dead bodies. The lady that was laying off the sidewalk calling for help, that looked real. A portion of her skull flew away with the last shot. Her body with that type of wound should be among the casualties.

    BTW, The Daily Stormer has both the video and manifesto archived as a torrent.

    However, looking at the video again, the lady being shot, at 12:05-12:06, she’s shot once in the head and she brings her right hand to her head (!). And she is definitely struck; her hair flies up. Then she’s shot a second time and what one assumes is a portion of skull with hair attached flies away. Not that I’m well versed in such things, but the hand movement doesn’t look like something you would expect to see. Too, after being shot in the head like that, she doesn’t flounce around or at least quiver and stretch out. That whole sequence kinda sets my bullshit detector off.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @aandrews
  141. @Incitatus

    The Grand Obfuscator, InZitatus, mockingly wrote: “Yitzhak Edward Asner (born of Jewish-Russian-born immigrants 1929) is your best shot Wally? He’s your 9/11 WTC source?… Loved him as Lew Grant. Now he’s just another nut case.”

    Ycch! It’s you again, InZit. (Zigh) Am wishing FB tunes into this article and exposes your little “nuts,” again. 😌

    Regarding your narcissist words, above, and fyi, a rather cynical Jew asked a disciple of The Christ, “What good can come from Nazareth!”

    So here’s what I say to you, fucker:
    In (Yitzhak) Edward Asner, incarnate goodness has sprouted from The Mary Tyler Moore Show.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Incitatus
  142. @atlantis_dweller

    Yeah, Rurik. Stop making loud noises as they heap more burnable material around your pyre. You’re supposed to take it like a man. (Whohoo!) Where’s your breeding ferChrisake?

  143. wayfarer says:
    @aandrews

    “Everybody with a Pulse… Needs to Understand This… Now!!”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  144. @Rev. Spooner

    You might as well sing out cause none of us are anonymous.

  145. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Inject yourself with the HIV virus and see if Asner the Aids denialist is a misleader who is all the more convincing because of his Jewish people skills.

  146. @Cesca

    Israel as the tail that wags the dog seems an accurate statement, but it diesn’t follow that Israel is a stooge of the West. It appears more a case of Israel as the shot-caller for the disastrous ME wars conducted on the behalf of Israel by western nations, particularly the US.

    Israel, if it’s a stooge, wouldn’t have the massive influence that it has just because western governments wouldn’t want the bodies exhumed. Israel’s influence more likely lies in the realm of international bankers. Zionism is a favored tool of that particular cabal.

  147. @Wizard of Oz

    They had to kill a Pearl Harbor’s worth of people to get a New Pearl Harbor. And above all they needed to hypnotize the world by repeatedly broadcasting horror footage of the Towers exploding into pyroclastic clouds chasing people down the streets of Manhattan. Those images were the core of the operation.

    Also, the Towers were white elephants, full of obsolete communications infrastructure and condemned for asbestos. Demolishing them legally would have cost billions.

  148. @melgibstein

    No, see…you don’t get it. The regulah joos are saving us from the eevull joos. Try to keep up, OK?

  149. aandrews says:
    @aandrews

    In fact, thinking about it, maybe that’s why the video is being suppressed.

    https://imgur.com/a/Rtx4kL9

    • Replies: @aandrews
  150. Sean says:
    @Henry's Cat

    No. It is impossible for the structure of 9/11 conspiracy theories to collapse, because they are made of a bullcrap alloy that remains rock solid by means of a inner pendulum just like modern super skyscrapers.

    Inside the edifice of 9/11 Trutherism is a mobile element called “cognitive slippage”, whereby events are interpreted in accordance with symbols and meanings rather than facts, and no generalizing from one situation to another analogous one can take place.

    • Agree: vagabondtheelder
    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @ChuckOrloski
  151. Sean says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    They had to kill a Pearl Harbor’s worth of people to get a New Pearl Harbor. And above all they needed to hypnotize the world by repeatedly broadcasting horror footage of the Towers exploding into pyroclastic clouds chasing people down the streets of Manhattan. Those images were the core of the operation.

    The Japanese actually attacked Pear Harbour and sank battleships though. Moreover, the US predictably went to war with Japan as a result . The 9/11 attack was by Saudis, and clouds of dust did not predictably influence the invasion of Iraq. Those images at core of your putative false flag operation were repeatedly broadcast, but it they were were so obviously showing a controlled demolition the purport of the whole thing is beyond rational explanation.

    Also, the Towers were white elephants, full of obsolete communications infrastructure and condemned for asbestos. Demolishing them legally would have cost billions.

    Please. Far from being white elephants the WTC towers were in a prime location making it a goldmine whatever the condition of the property.

  152. aandrews says:
    @aandrews

    Revision: The first shot was a miss, very close. She was probably injured by it but not incapacitated and could’ve brought her hand up to her head, which is what would be expected, actually.

    The human race is a sorry lot.

  153. 9/11 was a yuge conspiracy. Israeli Mossad were definitely involved, the dancing Israelis and other Mossad agents arrested with a van full of explosives near Washington bridge after the attacks proves this.

    CIA was no doubt involved, had to be, CIA and US Secret Service both had offices in Building 7. CIA is the muscle of the Wall St banks, Corporations. The Neocons, Oil and gas corporations. The military industrial complex, private military contractors (mercenaries), the Mafia all play a role in successfully pulling off these false flags, assassinations, hybrid warfare and coups.

    The Pentagon, NORAD (North American Air Defense) were complicit.

    The Saudis helped fund it, provided the patsies, several “hijackers” were found to still be alive after driving the planes into the WTC.

    The FBI, with Robert Mueller as director covered up the whole thing. The 9/11 commission was a sham, several members including Max Cleland said the commission was set up to fail, was underfunded intentionally from the start.

    The media lied about it, and continue to lie about it, so they are complicit.

    Pretty much all of congress and senate lied and continue to lie about it. People like Dennis Kucinich, Max Cleland, and Cynthia McKinney who were asking real questions about it are thrown out by rigging elections, media smearing them, as they will do with Ilhan Omar when she comes up for reelection.

    The Lavon Affair and USS Liberty were two where they got caught with their pants down.

    Its never as simple as just blaming one person, country or group. 9/11 was a huge conspiracy. I think 9/11 is a big reason why Americans are so depressed, turning to drugs and alcohol then suicide. This country is literally sick. I think that the fact that our “government” has murdered so many innocent people in our name, all over this false flag. The disgust that these evil degenerates would kill 3000 of their fellow citizens to get their war of terror is eating America up from the inside. Blaming Muslims for it, so they create racial and religious hatred, and they continue to fucking lie about it.

    The truth about 9/11 as well as JFK assassination needs to be put out in the open. People need to go to jail, not still be free to repeat this BS over and over again. Bolton, Kissinger, Elliot Abrams etc..

    • Agree: DESERT FOX
    • Replies: @ploni almoni
    , @Mike P
  154. Biff says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    A crucial step in removing the Nine-Eleven conspiracy from the crackpot ledger would be to explain how the buildings were rigged for demo without it being noticed.

    Urban moving company!

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  155. @Haxo Angmark

    Try to get your elementary facts right. The war didn’t start till end July/beginning of August 2014. And it required the Kaiser’s communications to be sabotaged by his generals to be sure it happened. Where do you see the hand of the bankers and Rockefellers in that? Sources?

    • Replies: @Haxo Angmark
  156. Robjil says:
    @Sean

    Santa Clausism is what our MSM touts. Believe whatever MSM says no matter how irrational it is . We are not “allowed” to investigate things.

    The doers of nine eleven will keep doing things like it again and again until we say – Never Again.

    You mention facts. There are plenty of facts that point to Israeli connections.

    Why can’t we investigate them and talk openly about them in our “free” press, then?

    Airport security at Boston’s Logan and Newark was run by an Israeli owned company, ICTS International/Huntleigh USA.

    Five Dancing Israelis, who were spotted filming the falling towers and celebrating it.

    Crime scene evidence was controlled by Zionists. Rubble sold to China to be smelted. It wasn’t even examined before it was sold. Why? It was the biggest crime scene in US history?

    Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga knows that the Mossad did 9/11. He said that all intelligence services in Europe and America know that the 9/11 attacks were run by Mossad.

    Not many people know that the Israelis got caught a month later in Mexico on 10/10/01.

    http://www.thenatemaxproject.com/2015/02/13/1-month-after-911-mossad-caught-attempting-to-blow-up-the-mexican-congress-2001/

    “MOSSAD CAUGHT ATTEMPTING TO BLOW UP THE MEXICAN CONGRESS 2001 :::
    Little known due to the 9/11 aftermath, #Israel got caught attempting to bomb the #Mexican Congress one month after 911, to blame 9/11 on #Iran and get the U.S. to attack Iran. Any doubts? How about the official Mexican government release of the incident: http://www.pgr.gob.mx/cmsocial/bol01/oct/b69701.html MOSSAD IDF Colonel Salvador Guersson Smecke and Saur Ben Zvi were caught with bombs materials. The Israeli Embassy at Sierra Madre immediately closed it doors to any press. This is a very grave incident with many serious international implications. Many have questioned who may be really behind many of the more recent terrorist acts around the world including the ones against the #WTC and the Pentagon. The Mexican public and congress had been against the #PNAC plan ‘War on Terror.’ If one looks at the foreign policies and the Neoconservative PNAC/CLEAN BREAK ACT group, one may begin to see just who desires #war and revolution in the world…It’s written out openly, as anyone can ready this policy agenda publicly.”

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Sean
  157. wayfarer says:

    Richard Gage of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth – http://www.ae911truth.org – talks about the collapse of three high rise buildings in New York on the fateful morning of 9/11, killing almost three thousand people.

    More than 2300 international Architects and Engineers question the official explanation on how these buildings were able to collapse on their respective footprints. They demand, on behalf of the American People, a truly independent investigation on the 9/11 events, specifically into the collapse of WTC Building 7.

    9/11 Building Collapse | Richard Gage

  158. Alfred says:

    This webpage has an incredible number of “coincidences” to do with 9/11

    “9-11/Israel did it”

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/9-11/Israel_did_it

    My favourite, which is not listed above is that only 1 Israeli was killed. Only one Israeli was in the 3 huge buildings in the heart of the financial district of New York at office hours and on a working day. Miracle!

    A Chi-squared statistical test were carried as to the randomness of this event would confirm that there is zero probablity of that having been by chance. It is a shame few people seem to study math.

    “Chi-squared test”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi-squared_test

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @republic
  159. @Henry's Cat

    >My impression is that 9/11 trutherism is all but dead in the water.

    You should reconsider that impression:

    https://www.livescience.com/56479-americans-believe-conspiracy-theories.html

    About one decade ago, the stats were just above %30. Now, it’s reached critical mass.

    And there’s no indication it’s losing steam.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Henry's Cat
  160. @Sean

    Sean said🃏: “Inside the edifice of 9/11 Trutherism is a mobile element called “cognitive slippage”, whereby events are interpreted in accordance with symbols and meanings rather than facts, and no generalizing from one situation to another analogous one can take place.”

    Regarding whatever could be derived from the above slippery concoction written by Sean,🙄linked below is a meaningful article about an elevator company called “ACE,” and how the WTC towers could be wired for explosion.

    http://aneta.org/911experiments_com/AceElevator/

    • Replies: @Sean
  161. @Henry's Cat

    “as the massive weight crushes everything below it”

    and yet the bottom three quarters of the building had had no problem holding up that top section since the 1970’s, was in fact, designed to do just that.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  162. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Glad to see your first class education was not wasted Charles. An “enhanced capacity to recognize a concave mask rather than ‘correcting’ to the standard convexity of a face” is a an ability found in schizophrenics. Not a very useful ability, but perhaps that is the point. Tapping away on your keyboard into the wee small hours in a chaotic ill-ventilated room is the very opposite to action directed at a goal. But I suppose this bizzare-as-banal life of yours maintains ipseity. Just try not to stare into mirrors.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  163. @Kevin Barrett

    Now we’re back to 9/11 and all the amazing variety of barely compatible and incompatible conspiracies it is opportune to ask the smartest person on these threads, namely our host Ron Unz to give us a list of the facts he regards as

    (a) enough to prove that a conspiracy other than Al Qaeda’s was the cause of 9/11 events

    (b) established and in contradiction to the official facts (with reasons preferably)

    I say that, after going back to his major piece of September last wherein he showed that he had done a lot more reading than almost anyone but the obsessive nutters but also that he was now giving largely unexplained credence to quite a few authors some sceptics might think of as at least as dodgy as a White House spokesman. It was as usual an impressive demonstration of the Unz intellect at work but then I remind myself that some highly intelligent successful people believe in an Abrahamic creator deity that cares about us and I have just watched a program showing how a Cambridge physicist turned head of a Melbourne University college became totally involved as supporter of a charismatic female cult leader whose only merit was being less dangerous than Jim Jones. So… where do I suggest we are at?

    Ron made an overwhelming case against 9/11 being a conspiracy involving Rumsfeld or Cheney, let alone Bush. Right. But he has helped move me some way towards believing Israel might have been behind it. I have to put that in the context of my not accepting that Israel would have dared assassinate a US president in 1963 when Israel’s security depended more on the US than any other factor. And yet, and yet… one has to acknowledge the many murders carried out against the British, albeit by much younger men, as indicating what Zionists might do for Israel. They later spied on and stole from their No. 1 protector so perhaps very unlikely and criminal risktaking for Israel at any time becomes only unlikely – but possible. But where do we go with that?

    Asking the basic cui bono question requires one to notice Ron’s surprising willingness to put right up front his belief that Osama bin Laden was telling the truth when he denied responsibility for the twin towers attack. He had motive to do that because Mullah Omar wasn’t about to approve his safety if he had claimed responsibility. It is also quite likely that he didn’t expect anything like the level of destruction achieved – well beyond a few Jewish bond traders and Pentagon bureaucrats as expected collateral damage. And, if the point is about maximising harm to the enemy why not add an element of confusion once you know US government thinking is moving in the right direction (i.e. to invade Afghanistan)? But…

    I concede that serious Zionist risktakers might also see merit in just getting the US militarily involved against the Muslim world. But think for a moment of the arguments and counter arguments and how the many doubters would have inhibited the colossal amount of needed planning and execution. So, one of the PNAC people comes up with “you know, I don’t thing all our highly focused thinking has shown the way to go. What about we just launch the US, preferably with multiple allies, into a messy war situation against Middle East Muslims?” and

    “It’s actually better if it doesn’t start on Israel’s doorstep but just starts the ball rolling where it will keep on reverberating”

    but

    “Yeah, yeah, great idea. Launch a ‘we don’t even want an exit strategy war’ so our shares in Lockheed-Martin, Northrop-Grumman, United Technologies will all look after our grandkids Ivy League places….”

    As I say, think for a moment how much enthusiasm is generated amongst those neo con intellectuals or their roughneck connections in the CIA by the great idea to have civilian planes crash into major buildings with a view to having Al Qaeda blamed and America launched into an invasion of Afghanistan. “Geez, just keep it simple buddy. Let’s just have one of Saddam’s men shoot the President”. And if it comes from Mossad do we really think that’s going to make all those traitorous former friends of Ron’s go along tamely?

    Before I forget I should interpolate this link because it and associated pages have a bearing on the supposed knockdown technical arguments

    https://www.nist.gov/topics/disaster-failure-studies/faqs-nist-wtc-7-investigation

    And while it’s in mind let me tackle Ron’s apparent willingness to believe that Flight 77’s passengers vanished into thin air and that no plane hit the Pentagon. Well I remember pictures of what looked very convincingly like an American Airlines tail on the lawn outside the Pentagon and that made me take special note of some commenters allegation that no black boxes were recovered. Understandable amidst the WTC rubble but not so easy to explain in the other cases. And, sure enough it seems that the black boxes were recovered for the other flights, at least according to this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/02/13/why-wasnt-one-single-black-box-recovered-from-any-of-the-crashes-on-911

    So my prospective concession that there is a question to be asked has been turned by a simple Google question into near certainty that the doubts about the Pentagon strike are BS.

    I don’t know whether Ron wants to persist in regarding the alleged presence of thermite traces as critically important, especially given the alternative view about demolition charges which are different apparently. Maybe there is something to explain. But maybe there are alternative explanations as for the explosions said to have been heard after the crashes which, anyway aren’t consistent with either the thermite or demolition theories. Could that be one of Ron’s critical facts ultimately exonerating Al Qaeda?

    Ron is surely one of the few with the scientific and mathematical background to assess all the claims about free fall and the alleged impossibility of the fires caused by plane crashes bringing down the towers. I wish he would. To me, in the absence of expert proof, the fact of the tower with the greater weight of upper stories collapsing in much shorter time after impact gives huge prima facie advantage to the fire-weakening + gravity explanation, especially as no one has explained why the collapses were so different from conventional demolitions which involve explosions at the base level. (Reminder too: have a look at the NIST Faq page I linked).

    Finally, as a real test for UR’s sharpest intellect. Even supposing the Mossad geniuses were given the green light after much anguished debate how were they proposing to handle the eventuality of one of the planes missing its WTC tower and the other being inspected thoroughly? And what had they done to cope with the uncertainty as to which levels would be struck by the aircraft. After all the collapses had to look the same in both cases with only the levels at which they started differing.

    If the impossibility of the Twin Towers collapsing as a result of heat plus gravity is proven then I concede. Until then…. So bring on the Grand Jury.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  164. @Rurik

    You don’t have an IQ within 3 standard deviants of mine. Now, quit trying to crawl up to where you don’t belong and stick with Rosie O’Donnell mutterings “Fire? Fire? Fire? I don’t believe it.” asininity; also, take your Alex Jones vitamins before bed, they’ll help give that numbed pecker of yours a chance at rising in the morning.

    • Replies: @Anon
  165. @wayfarer

    More than 2300 international Architects and Engineers question the official explanation on how these buildings were able to collapse on their respective footprints.

    Wow, 2300 international architects AND engineers. 2,300, astonishing there are this many.

    Ha, not really, there are probably more than 2,300 of each in Harris County Texas alone. Bing says ~2.7 million architects in the world; another search shows a ~million PEs in the US alone. Considering India and China’s rapid expansion in education over the last 25 years, I’d toss out each have more than than the US. Your 2,300 here isn’t looking good as a number to put out, .0001 or something ya know.

    I bet if surveyed, there’d probably be >.00o2 who could make an argument or have a belief in flat earth or Nessie.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  166. @Alfred

    A serious person might even have been led to inquire as to how many Israelis were working in the towers and who they were followed by questions directed to them and their friends, families and associates about where they were at the relevant times and why? If it is indeed true that there was one Israeli known to be killed how reliably is it known how many Israelis were working on the floors affected? I am not sure why you would expect there to be many Israelis. Jews, certainly. And that raises the question why, on your view of the facts, Israelis who happened to be working in American businesses in New York would be given some risky warning message but other Jews would not be.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  167. @AnonStarter

    Yep. It’s time to start witch trials again. Its just a matter of preparing the believers.

    It seems unlikely that the extra percentages derive from any actual improvement in the state of the public’s knowledge of 9/11. So it is worth considering whether disillusioned disbelief in anything said by government has grown because of Trump’s own indifference to truth and his accusing almost everyone else of lying.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  168. @wayfarer

    Why do you give any credit to Richard Gage and his tiny fraction (not increased after the first flush of enthusiasm over 10 years ago) of people claiming to have some architectural or engineering skills?

  169. Fred Reed practices a kind of anti-science, built from logical fallacies, to discourage investigation of the incriminating evidence. I post here, for the benefit of all who promote the official Arab-framing lies, a mere mote of that evidence…

    1) Explosions/flashes at WTC1 during impact at WTC2
    (slight of hand)

    2) Witness reports from inside WTC1 during WT2 impact

    3) Pre-weakening of perimeter columns with thermite cutters:

    WTC1 & 2 did not “collapse” or “pancake.” As all footage clearly shows, the buildings (2000% live-load redundancy, Engineering News Record, 1967) exploded.

  170. @Iris

    The WTC towers were built to sustain the shock of a plane crashing, with a safety margin on top.

    I don’t have such a naive faith in manufacturers’ claims (ever bought a non-stick frying pan ‘guaranteed for life’?) but it may have escaped your notice that the towers did sustain the shock of a plane crashing. Without the resulting fires, they wouldn’t have collapsed. Those fires sufficiently weakened enough of the remaining steel support columns (shorn of their protective coating) and then the massive weight above did the rest. That was the design flaw that the architects either didn’t foresee or ignored.

    An unanswerable argument of the 9/11 Truth movement is precisely that WTC7 fell in free fall.

    As mentioned previously, the seeming desire to switch to WTC7 at every opportunity. I’m happy to do so, but first, did the twin towers also collapse at free fall speed? If not, why the difference?

    • Replies: @ploni almoni
  171. @AnonStarter

    I should have made clearer that I was talking about 9/11 trutherism advocates. Those zealous enough to actively preach the gospel and seek new converts. Those so outraged and distraught at the idea that the American government (or the Israelis or whoever) conspired to kill thousands of its citizens as a pretext to kill hundreds of thousands of more in foreign wars, etc. etc. It’s those that are becoming increasingly thin on the ground. How many new truther writers have come to prominence in the last few years?

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @AnonStarter
  172. @redmudhooch

    They have you going around in circles. The three thousand victims of 9/11 are fake. The six million are fake. First figure out what is real and what is not.

  173. Robjil says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    In the late 1990s and early 2000s, right before nine eleven, there was endless “suicide” bombings in Israel. Israelis were on edge. This Odigo message thing was used on nine eleven. An Israeli would read the Hebrew message warning and take it as real. The common Israeli probably did not know how bad it would be, thus they did not warn other people. They were used to not going to places that might have a terrorist event with this warning system. This is the reason only one or three Israelis were killed on nine eleven. It is estimated four hundred American Jews were killed on nine eleven. All of humanity does not want something like nine eleven to never happen Ever Again.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  174. @j2

    It is obvious that 9/11 was not a natural event, but man made. It is obvious that the airplanes story is phony and cannot explain it. And ludicrously stupid. It is obvious that besides insurance fraud, stock market fraud, there was political fraud. And that governments and their handmaiden the media are involved, at city, state, and federal level. The psy-op involved a phony Naudet Bros documentary for television, just as the Kennedy assassination involved a controlled Zapruder film. So what are you going to do about it?

    • Replies: @j2
  175. Robjil says:
    @Henry's Cat

    Santa Clausism is the only thing “allowed” these days in our “free” press. If one writes rationally, one does not get a MSM job. Our MSM is flooded endlessly with irrational Santa Claus like tales. Russiagate, Assad “gases” his own people, Aleppo is in mortal “danger” says a child spokesperson Bana Alabed, Guaido is “president” of Venezuela, Jerusalem must be the capitol of Israel, World War II can’t be investiged rationally, US support for coups, terrorism and drug cartels are never investigated, US support for Israel is never questioned, etc. We live in a Santa Claus like world these days in the “free” world.

    • Agree: densa
  176. Mike P says:
    @redmudhooch

    Bravo. Excellent summary and insight.

  177. @Wizard of Oz

    >It seems unlikely that the extra percentages derive from any actual improvement in the state of the public’s knowledge of 9/11.

    You may be right. Then again, your very sentence is conjecture, which is a bit ironic.

    >So it is worth considering whether disillusioned disbelief in anything said by government has grown because of Trump’s own indifference to truth and his accusing almost everyone else of lying.

    It is also worth considering that the flow of information is not as corralled and centralized as it had been prior to the advent of the internet, the recent “purges” notwithstanding.

    In the end, it’s a matter of faith. And the application of Occam’s Razor simply doesn’t yield favorable results for a government so obviously controlled by Zionist interests. Alas, the believers (in said government) were prepared long ago and remain more influential than not.

  178. @Henry's Cat

    Understood.

    It doesn’t appear as if that actually matters in the greater picture. You’ll note that a near majority also feel the same way about the JFK assassination, which indicates another increase over the course of time in spite of the fact that the skeptic movement surrounding it has lost considerable steam. Of course, we can’t predict what the outcome of all this might be. Americans appear to have an impressive track record of being hoodwinked.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
  179. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @vagabondtheelder

    How large is a deviant? Has ot perchance got something to do with your having a non numb pecker?

  180. @Robjil

    You appear, with respect, to be lazily giving credence to rubbish though it didn’t waste very much of my time to enlarge on your vague reference to Odigo by a simple search which produced this

    Home
    Hijackers
    Foreknowledge
    Stand down
    WTC
    ,,,

    Odigo

    The story…

    An Israeli company called Odigo received advanced warning of the attacks. Here’s Alex Jones take on the story:

    [MORE]

    Odigo admitted publicly… that yes, they got a warning, an Instant Message, hundreds of their employees, in the Towers, and told them, to leave the building, 4 hours before the planes slammed into it. This is on the record and cannot be ignored.
    Alex Jones
    Martial Law 911

    [PLEASE NOTE ALEX JONES IS AS SLAPDASH AS YOU – I REFER TO HIS “4 hours before the planes slammed into it”.]

    And repeated in one of his radio interviews…

    Odigo admits that they instant messaged their people to get out of the building.
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/march2005/300305newrevelations.htm

    Our take…

    Jones makes a dramatic story, and from this account you’d think the case was proven. After all, a warning that saved hundreds of lives cannot be ignored, right? Trouble is, what he’s saying isn’t exactly accurate. Let’s look at the original report.

    Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.

    Micha Macover, CEO of the company, said the two workers received the messages and immediately after the terror attack informed the company’s management, which immediately contacted the Israeli security services, which brought in the FBI.

    “I have no idea why the message was sent to these two workers, who don’t know the sender. It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right. And I don’t know if our information was useful in any of the arrests the FBI has made,” said Macover. Odigo is a U.S.-based company whose headquarters are in New York, with offices in Herzliya.
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=77744&contrassID=/has%5C

    So, problem #1 with Jones account: the company say nothing about telling their employees to “leave the building”. They told no-one about the message until after the attacks. But didn’t they feel under threat? No, these employees were in Israel, not America.

    Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales and marketing, confirmed
    that workers in Odigo’s research and development and international
    sales office in Israel received a warning from another Odigo user
    approximately two hours prior to the first attack.
    http://amenusa.org/prior.htm

    Still, the message did predict the attack, right? Maybe not.

    Odigo Vice President of Sales and Marketing… Alex Diamandis today in a telephone interview also said the warning message did not identify the World Trade Center as the attack target.
    http://amenusa.org/prior.htm

    That explains why they didn’t notify their employees in the towers, then — they didn’t know the attack was coming after all. In fact for all we know, the message could have been something very vague that only seemed meaningful later: “America will pay for its crimes, and sooner than anyone believes”. That seems plausible from the comment Alex Diamandis made in another article.

    “Without going into details, the message was most noteworthy due to the timing, not due to the substance of the ‘warning.’ It could easily be coincidence,” Diamandis said.
    http://www.atnewyork.com/news/article.php/8471_893851

    There is another reason why Odigo didn’t alert their WTC employees, of course. They didn’t have any offices there.

    Odigo’s New York office is located four blocks from the site of the World Trade Center, in an area that was blocked off for a short time following the attacks.
    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/01/09/WTC_Odigo2.html

    And just by way of completeness, it doesn’t even seem Odigo had “hundreds” of employees to flee the WTC office that, uh, they didn’t have.

    [June 13th 2001]
    The Odigo team consists of 80 employees.
    http://www.ruksun.com/html/news/odigo.html

    And also, once you know the full story, another question comes to mind. If this is supposed to be a “warning”, why send it to people in Israel who would be unaffected by the event? And not give them enough information to warn colleagues closer to the attacks, in New York? It doesn’t make sense, and without knowing the message text, it certainly doesn’t prove foreknowledge.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @NoseytheDuke
  181. @Wizard of Oz

    Reasonably, Wizard of oZ said: “If the impossibility of the Twin Towers collapsing as a result of heat plus gravity is proven then I concede. Until then…. So bring on the Grand Jury.”

    Although there are Zio constipation efforts underway to slow down the south Manhattan-based assembly of a Grand Jury, which will be tasked to address the Architects & Engineers riveting 9/11 lawsuit, I still think there’s a chance you might get “proof.”

    Yes, oZ! The Grand Jury, “Bring it on,” along with respectable coverage by my “Homeland’s” Jewish Corporate Media!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  182. republic says:
    @Alfred

    My favourite, which is not listed above is that only 1 Israeli was killed.

    All Israelis received a text message prior to 9/11 (Odigo)

    A few Jews were killed

  183. @Robjil

    Peanuts characters debate: “Is ‘no Santa Claus’ just a conspiracy theory?” https://kevinbarrett.heresycentral.is/2018/12/xmaspiracy/

    • LOL: Cloak And Dagger
    • Replies: @Robjil
  184. @Sean

    Apparently domiciled in a ZUSA Guaranteed Security & Pleasure Dome, Sean tried to belittle me and said: “Tapping away on your keyboard into the wee small hours in a chaotic ill-ventilated room is the very opposite to action directed at a goal. But I suppose this bizzare-as-banal life of yours maintains ipseity.”

    Hey fucker!

    Did you ever read any “samizdat” written by Russian writers who kept notes while imprisoned in Siberia by Stalin? Fyi, in Gulag Archipelago One, Solzhenitsyn did so, and he did time in the Lubyanka’s “chaotic ill-ventilated room.”

    Uh, maybe Bradley Chelsea Manning is keeping a diary while under arrest & doing time inside his OSHA-approved prison cell?

    Frankly, I am grateful to the Almighty for her having a small, clean, and well lit room. In addition, dickweed, I am thrilled to not dwell in either Mar a lago or the White House where t-Rump emotes texts 💣 and practiced his Zionized State of the “Homeland’s” Union speech.

    “ipseity” my ass! (zzZigh) Another cheap & uptown word, typically deployed by regular U.R.-comment deception freaks, InZitatus & Maven Sam Shama. So Mr. Little Mind, and to paraphrase an old Reagan sound bite, you are not InZitatus!

    Here at U.R. comments, & fyi little boy Sean, I typically write in opposition & revolt to stinky people like you, and those others who think they shall continue to enjoy & prosper from their ideologically blind 🙃 & non-“banal” life in ZUS of A.

    Have a good day!🖕

    • Replies: @Sean
  185. Sparkon says:
    @wayfarer

    More than 2300 international Architects and Engineers question the official explanation on how these buildings were able to collapse on their respective footprints.

    Please note that WTC1 and WTC2 did not collapse onto their respective footprints.

    If they had fallen straight down, then the Deutsche Bank building across the street wouldn’t have been shattered with ejected debris from WTC2 to such extent that the building had to be written off and dismantled a decade later, nor would the Winter Garden Atrium across the street from WTC 1 have been punctured with ejected structural members from WTC 1, with one of the exterior support chex sections visibly protruding from the glass of the atrium.


    Deutsche Bank

    I doubt Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth are starting with the incorrect premise that WTC 1 and WTC 2 fell straight down onto their respective footprints. If they are, then I hold little hope for a legitimate and truthful outcome from their work.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  186. @Sean

    Judaism is a religion, NOT a bloodline.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Wally
  187. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Sean

    NO.

    The anti-jew jews have a larger platform. They speak out against the tribe, and hence are useful to un-hypnotize goyim idiots.

    Only intellectual Jews have the brains, the academic achievements, and the money to get traction in anti Israel activism.

    Only intellectual Jews have the platform to get traction among other Jews. Their brains and academic achievements do not outstrip Goys, but their ethnicity/platform gives them an edge amongst other jews. Anti-Jew jews use their ethinicity/platform as a shield of protection which allows them to speak whereas a goy cannot.

    Zionist Jews pretend the white Gentile anti-Semites are the main force behind opposing the military Zionist policies of Israel, but it is really the Jewish intelligentsia who are Israel’s mortal enemy.

    Zionism and Israel are the same thing. It was Zionists who became one with Rothschild at the first Zionist Congress. It was private banking money that bought Israel to begin with. It is this same deep state money that protects Israel today by usurping the polity in America and other Globalist institutions, like the European Union.

    Jewish Intelligentsia who are anti Zionist, would be the enemy of Zionism.

    Jews have always had disagreements with each other, and those Jews are useful to us as agents to push OUR self interest, especially where they dovetail. Those Jews who are useful to us have a moral backbone, and have walked away from Jewish perfidy, and should be recognized as such.

  188. MEFOBILLS says:
    @jacques sheete

    Jacques,

    The best source on the East/West Gold-Silver rent method is found in Zarlinga’s book:

    https://www.monetary.org/

    The Lost Science of Money.

    Buy the book, it is worth the money.

    Also, if you want to research further, the footnotes will lead you to other source material. Zarlinga touches on Greek silver debts, and then Solon’s reforms that these debts engendered.

    Creating debts that must be paid with compound interest is a concept independent of metal as money. Once the metal coin gets its “stamp” it becomes legal fiat of the king. However, the debtors are harvested to return this metal money at compounding rates, which is outside of nature.

  189. @Sparkon

    The collapses of all three buildings were indeed “straight down into their own footprints”, though there were components of both towers ejected outward by the explosions and those components did damage other buildings nearby. Bldg. 7 was damaged by flying building components from the towers before it collapsed into its own footprint.

    Pieces large enough to damage other buildings were ejected by the force of explosions, but that doesn’t mean that WTC 1,2 and 7 didn’t collapse as described. That wasn’t even a nice try, but thanks for the added retardation, there, sparky.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    , @Sparkon
  190. @AnonStarter

    That cuts both ways. I’ve met very few truthers who can withstand, let alone willingly invite even the slightest bit of scrutiny. Then I’m part of the ‘sheeple’.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Herald
  191. @Robjil

    You’re free to discuss the detail of 9/11 with me here. Or you can continue to just run your rhetorical mouth.

  192. @Twodees Partain

    Are the explosions you talk of the ones involved in the controlled demolition?

  193. denk says:
    @wayfarer

    Fanatics Run America”

    And yet you swallow its B.S. about Chinese hacking into Boeing, ..and whatever.

    I’ve seen lots of outrageous comments from dumb down murkkans in my time, but…
    YOur insinuation of China’s complicity in the 737 Max disaster surely takes the cake !

  194. @Sean

    I hope you will run a critical eye over #166 and perhaps prod Ron into applying himself seriously to assessing the conspiracy theories he has been too uncritical about.

  195. Wally says:
    @Henry's Cat

    Obviously you did not look at:
    Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth: https://www.ae911truth.org/
    with coverage of every aspect of 9/11

    “Dwindling” my ass:
    Breaking: Families, Lawyers, AE911Truth File Lawsuit against FBI over ‘9/11 Review Commission Report’: https://www.ae911truth.org/fbi

    False strawman arguments, the favored tactic of Zionists.

  196. @Larry Kelley

    But it is the tribe rather than the religion that matters. That is the term used by Einstein and also recently by The Times of Israel (or maybe the Jerusalem Post). The tribe I suppose is like a psychological bloodline.

  197. Wally says:
    @Sean

    And what would be your “humanistic” about that?

  198. @ChuckOrloski

    Don’t give credit to those so-called architects and engineers. It is the Lawyers Committee for 9/11 Inquiry.

  199. Wally says:
    @Incitatus

    My my, you are in denial.

    Essentially because of intimidation by The usual Enemies of Free Speech.

    I recommend that you actually read the article under discussion.

    Ditzy hasbarist Incitatus, talks a lot, but cannot refute anything I post.

    Cheers.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  200. Wally says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Except that the WTC was closed while “elevator repairs were being done”.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  201. Robjil says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Thanks Kevin, that is funny. It is the reality that we live in. Santa Clausism, tales to control us that make no sense, are being pushed on us every day in the western world these days.

    • Agree: Mike P
  202. One Tribe says:
    @MEFOBILLS

    Like Rurik and Jacques, I am respectful of the perspective of your comment; thank you.

    I note that the prescription for exclusions on profession, from what I understand, are in place in Iran, a longstanding continuous culture, which has learned from great mistakes of the past.

    On “expulsion“: we are sacrificing an entire region of the planet, and all of the civilians, to implement this alternative to the problem.

    On the problem:
    The issue is the ideology, which, first and foremost, insists on separation between affiliates/adherents, and everybody else. It continues by insisting on a formalized dis-empowerment/dis-enfranchisement of all out-group people as inferior, or as repeatedly insisted upon in the Talmud, sub-humans are the goy.
    Damaging the innate human empathetic response to create a selective empathy for only in-group people.
    Thereby, it creates license in all adherents to do anything to the out-group, necessarily the large majority, for what is the advantage to getting exceptional treatment … in all things, if you are in fact the majority (then it isn’t exceptional anymore, wouldn’t it be?)

    The adhesion of the adherents, to the in-group, as a collective is critical.

    The rest is as your anecdote illustrates, but it is only one example of a culture of systematic gaming out-group social values, which enable a society to function on a sustainable basis.

    This is the real issue

    The approach is re-ifying, which means, it will out-compete others, the only way to compete is to adopt the same approach… so the same approach of gaming the society is adopted by out-groups.
    But there is a first-mover advantage; so even the players who adopt the amoral tactic to gain wealth/power, will not likely achieve the same level of power/control as the first-mover.
    Furthermore, systematically, more and more people will abandon the values/behavioural traits required for the ongoing viability of the society…

    … making the society non-viable; ultimately leading to the collapse of that society!

    This is where the empire is now!

    Moving and/or limiting it’s operation in a host society will not stop it at a generational time-frame.

    Besides actual extermination, which would also likely fail, for it is an ideology, not the physical housings, which is the problem, what can be done?

    Ironically, I believe that it is education.

    The first victims of the system of enslavement which would better be described as Rabbinical Talmudism (rather than judaism, a made-up term, like so many others, to confuse and constrain all out-group people from acting against it), are the adherents, most of which are ignorant as to what they are ascribing to, and deceived on an ongoing basis to continue to support the in-group.
    Without this pawn base, their systems of sub-ordination and enslavement will fail.
    The truth is their ultimately enemy, for most people in-group and out-group alike, will coil in revulsion, and take an antagonistic position, if they were to know the well-published (but not necessarily easily accessed) information about this extremist hateful cult.

    After those that can be rescued from the cult are salvaged… re-assessment of the option will likely need to be considered against the hard-core genocidal enemies of humanity.

  203. L.K says:
    @Sean

    All the originators and most influential of these conspiracy (JFK, 9/11 ect ) theorists seem to be Jewish. Is it because only Ashkenazi Jews have an IQ high enough to function effectively while handicapped with thought disorder?

    TROLL button already used.

    Sean == Troll

    • Replies: @Sean
  204. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    I think your school of thought is actually a style of thought, and therefore to assess it the content of your arguments is not the main thing. What you possess is along the lines of the aforementioned “enhanced capacity to recognize a concave mask rather than ‘correcting’ to the standard convexity of a face”, which is an advantage in certain circumstances. Is the mask convex on one side or two?

    Is it rotating in one direction or in two? The Russian psychologist Polyakov saw a the style of thinking, which is is able to perceives an extremely rare reality when it occurs because of a default for identifying the outlier, as a failure to interpret the world in accordance with what is likely. In the great majority of cases such an ability is more of a hinderance than a help. Chuck, you may well have a very real advantage over 99.9% of people in how good you are at recognizing conspiracies, and if the prior ocurrence of actual conspiracies of the type you believe in had been demostrated it would be a vauable tendency. But Chuck, the prior occurence of major conspiracy events is not established, and so the tried and trusted defaults for immediate problems of survival of not suspecting the leadership of one’s group (or country) is malevolent and inimical to one’s interests would remain the thought tools of choice, if we were free to to choose our style of thought. Which we are not.

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
  205. j2 says:
    @ploni almoni

    “It is obvious that 9/11 was not a natural event, but man made. It is obvious that the airplanes story is phony and cannot explain it. And ludicrously stupid. It is obvious that besides insurance fraud, stock market fraud, there was political fraud. And that governments and their handmaiden the media are involved, at city, state, and federal level. The psy-op involved a phony Naudet Bros documentary for television, just as the Kennedy assassination involved a controlled Zapruder film. So what are you going to do about it?”

    I have tried to think of a solution to this problem, but so far I have not solved it yet. Usually there is a solution to everything, but it is not so easy to find it. The traditional solution has been an expulsion, but I doubt it solves anything anymore. People suggest all kind of solutions, like build a wall to stop immigrants, make a revolution to remove kings, but such solutions usually bring other problems. Maybe changing the election system in a democracy to one that is not easily taken over would be a better solution. It is a take-over problem. What to do would follow once there is a solution. So, let’s say there is a working solution. Then you should get many people to support it. It usually takes at least 100 years and good luck to get anybody support anything. So far I am working on the problem.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  206. Incitatus says:
    @Wally

    “My my, you are in denial.”

    Comprehension problems? This was the question:

    99.65% professionals haven’t signed the ae911truth petition. Why, Wally?

    Well?

    Denial indeed.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  207. Robjil says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Odigo worked well for Israelis on nine eleven. Whatever they were told on Odigo, it worked. Only one or two Israelis died in the nine eleven tragedy.

    In the years 1997 to 2002, Israel had many “suicide” bombings. Israelis were on edge. If given any message from Odigo,no matter how it was phrased, the timing is the most important, they were given a time frame. Thus, they would take precautions and not go to public areas.

    One of the worst “suicide” bombings in Israel happened a few months before nine eleven. It was in a public area – a beach front disco. Since this was so close in time to nine eleven, Israelis would be very cautious about any warnings and would not go to any public area for the time frame given.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/02/israel1

    “At least 17 people were killed and scores wounded last night when a suicide bomber infiltrated a popular beach-front disco in Tel Aviv and blew himself up in the middle of the crowds waiting to get in.
    Israeli television said 17 people, many of them 16-year-olds, had been killed and 85 injured, seven critically, in the explosion at the Dolphinarium, inflicting the heaviest toll on Israelis in five years.
    Officials called it one of the most inhuman attacks in Israel’s history. “

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  208. wayfarer says:

    Disturbing 9/11 Facts (Part 1).

    Disturbing 9/11 Facts (Part 2).

    Disturbing 9/11 Facts (Part 3).

  209. @Wally

    If you stop to think about this for even a moment, you’ll see why it’s not really possible.

    First of all, 50,000 people worked in the WTC. You can’t just decide to not allow 50,000 people to stay home from work. At the very least, you’re going to have to have some of the elevators out of commission while others are still working because you can’t close the buildings and you can’t have the buildings functional without at least some elevators.

    Now, it has been alleged that some of the elevators were out of order. Let’s assume for a moment that this is true. Would explosives within some of the elevator shafts be enough to take the buildings down? If you know anything about how explosives are distributed in controlled demolitions, you know that you’d need the majority of explosives around the perimeter of the building — not in the center. But the elevator shafts were in the center. So this explanation seems implausible.

    In fact, the above isn’t even necessary to argue, however, since the WTC was not closed for elevator repairs. It’s a falsehood, plain and simple.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Wally
  210. MEFOBILLS says:

    OneTribe

    from what I understand, are in place in Iran, a longstanding continuous culture, which has learned from great mistakes of the past.

    Yes, and Zion has tried to entice Iranian Jews to Israel, and to Zion’s consternation, Iranian Jews remain. Why? They are happy in Iran.

    To reword an aphorism: The Jew cries out for us to restrain him. The Jew cannot help himself.

    I think of it like this… human’s run on narrative, something like a computer program. If a narrative is supported by inputs of money and social sanction, then it will grow and flower. So, that is where we are at now, with false narrative watering a weed to our detriment. Even worse, we are funding our own dispossession.

    The weed is watered by usury, which is the real locus to my mind. This is the point of focus, all else is knock on effects.

    The first victims of the system of enslavement which would better be described as Rabbinical Talmudism

    Rabbinical Talmudism came into being after 73 AD when Temple fell, and all Levite records were erased. No genealogy tables, no priesthood, no temple – the former Torah religion of Israel was no more.

    What took its place is a new religion based on Verbal Tradition, and this Verbal Tradition formerly was secret. The East West Mechanism was Secret and source of money power during this period. When Rome moved north of Jerusalem and interdicted caravan routes, that is when our ((friends)) went nuts. The especially went nuts and massacred Greeks by the thousands.

    So, I agree with you, education of Goyim should include narrative which shows our Rabbinical Talmudic scholars to be in abeyance of the Logos; to be enemies of morality and honesty – Talmudic Jews are enemies of those things that normal humans believe in. Talmudism is a psychopathic religion, written by psychopaths, and it genealogy is verbal Magick religions. Cabala and Hermeticism are part of this Magick genealogy, and Hermes is the god of Merchants.

    The history of our friends show them taking rents, espousing false narratives, and maneuvering to their self benefit at expense of others.

    It takes a very monolithic culture (or one tribe!) to limit the Jew as in Iran. There is no way U.S. could summon the will to limit the Jew, given free-dumb narratives absorbed by most sheeple.

    Education is probably lowest hanging fruit right now, and next would be changing our money system to be non-usurious. This is a law change only, and will come about by education.

    Next, would be to pay our worst elements to leave. Take the Gold or take Lead to the Head, but only after legal system has rendered its verdict on Jewish (or whoever) malfeasance. We don’t want Jews to claim victim-hood status or a moral high ground, especially when they don’t own it. We have to pay them to leave, and since credit comes from the future, we are buying a better future.

    (A form of money that is redeemable for U.S. goods only would actually stimulate production, to then pay for Jew removal. Win Win! Basically you pay them in bill form – like Schacht’s Mefobill, which channels only to a targeted person, and is redeemed/discounted only for dollars spent on American goods.)

    This is my idea of expulsion, it is only done after money system becomes sovereign, otherwise it would backfire. As long as the Jew has money power over us, we are paying for our own dispossession.

    And to be explicit, usury money system has spread beyond the Jew to include many Goy’s, who may be natural psychopaths. However, Goys don’t have a governing religion which gives cover and sanction for theft, slavery and murder.

    http://www.sovereignmoney.eu

    • Agree: wayfarer
    • Replies: @One Tribe
    , @Druid
  211. “Our purpose was to document the event”

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  212. Sparkon says:
    @Twodees Partain

    Nope, you’re wrong.

    Take some time to study this big overhead image, which was taken by NOAA on Sept. 23, 2001, when much of the debris had been cleared from the streets already, but not from in front of the Winter Garden Atrium, which gives an indication of the debris from the exterior support structures from the WTCs that was ejected laterally, and thus did not fall straight down, despite what you believe.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  213. @Frederick V. Reed

    Wasn’t exactly the same parody of logic (practically word to word) aired in a quite recent
    article here ?
    With the same reasoning similar to “This man definitely died from repeatedly
    (9 times) slipping on a banana peel and falling on a sharp kitchen knife. Any other
    version is a conspiracy theory by definition, unless approved by the authors of
    “banana version”…
    I understand, it’s not an easy task to sell the ears of a dead donkey as a bouquet of roses,
    but shouldn’t you guys at least try to diversify your efforts ?
    For example, once in a while, try to justify a pure nonsense related to physics or math by
    insisting that under certain extreme circumstances (like in times of war) sin(X) may
    reach values of 2, 3, or even higher…
    That may also be a good training for inevitably and fast approaching need to explain a
    lot of things, related not so much to the physics of events (including 9/11) but to their
    math. You may start practicing already by adding up “WTC2, 10:05am + … + …”.

  214. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    When 7 WTC collapsed, debris caused substantial damage and contamination to the Borough of Manhattan Community College’s Fiterman Hall building, located adjacent at 30 West Broadway, to the extent that the building was not salvageable. A revised plan called for demolition in 2009 and completion of the new Fiterman Hall in 2012, at a cost of $325 million. The adjacent Verizon Building, an art deco building constructed in 1926, had extensive damage to its east facade from the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, though it was able to be restored at a cost of US$1.4 billion.

    If enough debris was ejected laterally from the WTC so that several surrounding buildings were substantially damaged, with two subsequently written off and demolished, and expensive repairs on others, then it can’t be true that the buildings of the WTC collapsed into their own footprints.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    Debris showering well beyond building’s footprint
    Is it real or is it CGI?

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  215. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    “So here’s what I say to you, fucker”

    Tsk, tsk. And I thought we were getting on so well.

    Guess your ‘James-Joyce-has-a-stroke free verse’ fooled me. Especially mixed with newfound Emojis (nothing like a shiny toy for a child).

    Let me make amends. A peace offering. Brain teasers for you (doubtless you know the answers):

    Q: You go to a cockfight. How do you know if a Polak is there?
    A: He’s the one with a duck.

    Q: How do you know if an Italian is there?
    A: He bet on the duck.

    Q: How do you know if the Mafia is there?
    A: The duck wins.

    No need to thank me, Chuckles.

  216. Sean says:
    @Robjil

    Does not need a typhoon to bring down a steel structure. One hour of steady 41 MPH wind did for the girders in a bridge.

    Bin Laden was a civil engineer you know. His father was the leading buiding contracter od Suadi Arabia and in fact overengineered the Mecca complex to such an extent that when it was taken over by terrorists in the 1979 Grand Mosque seizure the Saudi army had extreme trouble blasting holes in the structural walls.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Iris
  217. @j2

    Wisely, j2 said: “The psy-op involved a phony Naudet Bros documentary for television, just as the Kennedy assassination involved a controlled Zapruder film.”

    Broken but sunny Scranton greetings, j2!

    Specifically regarding your having mentioned (above) that the JFK killing involved a “controlled Zapruder film,” am wondering if you’re aware about Abraham Zapruder’s granddaughter, Alexandra, and her book, “Twenty six seconds.”

    Well, in that book, she noted how grandpa Abraham first copied his film, & then instead of taking it to either the Dallas P.D. or FBI, Zapruder placed the film into Secret Service agency custody. 🤔

    Fyi, mathematician & physicist, Mr. David Lifton, wrote a terrific but regrettably ignored book titled, “Best Evidence.”
    A scientist, Mr. Lifton, did not conclude anything regarding “who ‘dunnit” except to assert definite Secret Service involvement in JFK’s murder and subsequent US cover-up.

    So I fully endorse your use of the words “a controlled Zapruder film.” Fyi, and included in Jewess Alexandra’s book, the patriotic 🇮🇱 surrender of the original film copy (for historical posterity), 🙄 brought millions of US ‘guvmint-consigned dollars to the Zapruder beneficiary family. 😞 (Zigh) Refer below, j2, and thanks from the bottom of my beating heart!

    http://www.thenewsherald.com/downriver_life/zapruder-granddaughter-presents-her-book-at-jewish-book-fair/article_1afada3b-e424-50bb-87ba-67d3182770ed.html

  218. @Wizard of Oz

    the Sarajevo hit…a joint project of the French/Russians/Serbs

    took place on 26 June. As to the interval, it takes a while to put all the pieces on the board…and no war conspiracy is ever “for sure” successful…until the war happens. This one did.

    but finance, as usual came first.

    and as to facticity, you can’t hold a candle to me:

    it was the waffling Czar’s generals that cut his phones…

    not the Kaiser’s.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  219. @Incitatus

    Taking off from InZitatus The Builder’s corny humor, I offer this:

    Q: How do you know if the Jewish Mafia is there?
    A. t-Rump wins and gets into Resorts International and the White House.🤑

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  220. @Sparkon

    All of what you are picturing there is ejected material, thrown outward by explosives. The collapse was still straight down into the foundations, which meets the description of a “collapse into its own footprint” for all three buildings.

    I have never claimed that the collapse was the kind of textbook example of a carefully controlled implosion. It was very sloppy, indicating a gross overuse of explosives. What is obvious is that this was not a collapse caused by an airplane collision and subsequent fires.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  221. Robjil says:
    @Sean

    Nine Eleven was a false flag. We should not support the criminals who did it by denying that fact. They will keep doing these doing things like this to us little people over and over again if we do not stand up say and Never Again!

  222. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Taking off from InZitatus The Builder’s corny humor, I offer this:
    Q: How do you know if the Jewish Mafia is there?
    A. t-Rump wins and gets into Resorts International and the White House.

    How wonderful! The Scranton-sage replies!

    Sorry, didn’t vote for DJT and I’m not Jewish. Seems you project a bit too much.

    Still, another peace offering in levity:

    Q: How do you know if a Polak has been using a computer?
    A: There’s whiteout on the screen.

    Q: How did the Polish mother teach her son which way to put his underwear on?
    A: Yellow in the front, Brown in the back!

    Sound about right, Chuckles?

    Feel free to use Emojis.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  223. @vagabondtheelder

    More than 2300 international Architects and Engineers question the official explanation on how these buildings were able to collapse on their respective footprints.

    “Wow, 2300 international architects AND engineers. 2,300, astonishing there are this many.”

    What’s astonishing is the lack of meaningful professional opposition to the 2,300. Where are all the architects and engineers who’ve publicly gone on record in support of the official narrative?

    Oh that’s right, I forgot, you’ve got heavyweight Hymie Brown on your side, the impostrous assclown who somehow got himself on TV on 9/11, falsely introduced as the “architect” and the “project engineer” of the WTC towers. Of course the assclown then went on to try to baffle the viewing audience with disingenuous bullshit.

    And then, when Hymie and his lies were finally exposed, Hymie fled to Israel (of course).

  224. JamesinNM says:

    Truth can withstand the most rigorous inquiry, but a lie cannot.

  225. Iris says:
    @Sean

    “Does not need a typhoon to bring down a steel structure. One hour of steady 41 MPH wind did for the girders in a bridge.”

    The Tacoma bridge collapsed because of a well-known phenomenon called natural resonance.

    Natural resonance is a situation where vibrations forced on a object happen to match a natural and unique characteristic called its natural frequency. If the natural frequency is reached, no dampening or attenuation of the vibration happens anymore, and the amplitude of the vibration inexorably increases until the object in question breaks.

    The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse was due to the aero-elastic flutter caused by high-speed winds matching the natural frequency of the structure.

    Vibrational modes are now well understood and such accidents can be excluded by design, except if the architects oversee a parameter favouring ample vibration. It was the case for the London Millennium Bridge, where lateral vibrations caused by pedestrian traffic were not anticipated, and the bridge had to be closed and strengthened.

    So, there is nothing mysterious with the collapse of the Tahoma Bridge.

    9/11, on the other hand, is a succession of “miracles” which defy all the knowledge we have gathered so far in most areas of engineering: structural, thermal, mechanical, material science, metallurgy, nuclear, etc…
    9/11 is a “miracle” which has kept engineers flabbergasted for two decades.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski, Robjil
  226. @James Forrestal

    James Forrest’s quoted a “dancing Israeli” who said: “Our purpose was to document the event.”

    Hello, James Forrestal!

    CAUTION: You are reading the comment of a man who trusts nothing that Mossad agents said about 9/11. This includes the “dancing Israelis,” staged across the river, and who allowed themselves to become open to getting caught by NJ police & brought downtown for questioning. The fuckers. 🤔

    Please consider the Mighty Mossad’s needless sloppiness & having to take on scene snapshots of the exploding Towers, when TV network & cable news teams were all over the event & simulcasting worldwide?
    It was a macabre ritual dance celebration, and no one in either D.C. or Tel Aviv gave one fuck that the dancers were caught.

    In addition, I sincerely suggest my “Homeland’s” NASA must have had real-time satellite imagery available, and which no doubt, Israel🇮🇱 would have been “c.c.’d” all the best aerial pictures.

    And the average American?
    They would be, as usual, ☹️left in the darkness of Zionist Corporate Media.

    Full disclosure, James: I think the “dancing Israelis” were merely a Psy-Op display of unaccountable Jewish power. (Zigh) The real 9/11 masterminds, & definitely not OBL and KSM, swaggered straight into-‘Merikan-kissers.😕

    Now they heartily laugh at men (like me) who point to evidence of Israel’s 9/11 foreknowledge, and subsequent evil complicity for the False Flag & launch of GWOT.

    Please, please, please respond, and “hit me with your best shot!” Thanks a lot Mr. Forrestal.

  227. @Sean

    Thanks for your Agree. There are some useful additional points in this thread, not least the complete refutation of the “fell in their own footprint” nonsense. Intetesting that no one has reviewed the NIST stuff I linked and attempted to resurrect the “free fall speed” shibboleth.

    • Replies: @Iris
  228. @Incitatus

    InZitatus told me this joke: “Q: How did the Polish mother teach her son which way to put his underwear on?
    A: Yellow in the front, Brown in the back!”

    Above, more Elementary School level & washed up jokes from InZitatus The Builder.👷 (Zigh) Fyi, he flunked the 3-credit course, Jack Benny Joke-Book of Literature 101, at the South’s Kosciusko University!

    But yea, InZit, okay, okay. I admit you always do manage to sound (anti-Likud) t-Rump, and simultaneously, left leaning Jewish Lobby-approved “right.” So here’s a 🖕and right into your oft violated butt hole!

    • Agree: L.K
  229. @Wizard of Oz

    From the study of building 7 in arguing against conspiracy, the NIST says “Intentional demolition usually requires applying explosive charges to most, if not all, interior columns, not just one or a limited set of columns in a building.”

    Okay, then why if intentional destruction would have required sabotaging “most, if not all, interior columns” did alleged unintentional destruction only require undermining the integrity of one (# 79) or three (+ #80, 81) columns?

    “fuel for the fires was ordinary office combustibles at ordinary combustible load levels”

    How does such a fire spread when virtually every bit of modern office furniture and carpet is rated as fire retardant?

    The report attributed collapse of vertical columns to failure at the junction with horizontal floor cross members, due, ostensibly, to thermal expansion. How is this possible? Strip away the horizontal support and the vertical still remain intact. Why would it collapse into its own footprint?

    The twin tower buildings are basically high tensile steel box beams set on end. Imagine planting a car (another hollow box) nose first in the ground. What kind of weight would you have to drop on the tail end of the car to cause it to literally explode into dust?

    It wouldn’t. Drop another car on it and it would simply crumple. We see this in head-on collisions all the time. The car doesn’t disintegrate. It folds into an accordion. And so would a steel frame building. It would deform, bend, lean drunkenly and maybe, partially topple over. But this very deformation absorbs some of the kinetic energy, which is why a damaged building won’t fall in free fall.

    One reason high tensile steel is still valued as a bicycle frame (another truss system) is because it deforms slowly in the event of failure. It does not “fail catastrophically”.

    What I meant in my original comment was that the lower portion of the building was already designed to hold up the upper part. There was no sudden added crushing weight as many people imagine. What was added was the momentum of the top portion as it fell. In my opinion, as the lower part crumpled, it would have absorbed the energy of the falling upper part and decelerated it. There was plenty of intact structure beneath the damaged floors to do that.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  230. @Haxo Angmark

    Well, while swinging well lubricated haymakers in the partially indexed library, consider this on Czar-Kaiser communications

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/kaiser-wilhelm-of-germany-and-czar-nicholas-of-russia-exchange-telegrams

    True it doesn’t refer to any cutting of communications to the Kaiser but it does make me ask what you are talking about when you refer to the Czar’s generals (at some unspecified date) “cut[ing] his phones”. Since it was the Kaiser who was sidelined during the war and Nicjolas who made himself Commander-in-Chief I would need some convincing that you are not BSing. So, sources?

    Here’s another link which, incidentally, makes it hard to avoid judgment as to which of Queen Victoria’s grandsons deserves history’s greatest condemnation. Note that neither cousin responded to George V’s urgent telegrams.

    https://www.facinghistory.org/holocaust-and-human-behavior/chapter-3/last-ditch-effort-prevent-war

    I’ve given up tracking down the cutting off of peace possibilities by the German generals but came across this which I commend as a well told (true) story

    https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2016/winter/zimmermann-telegram

    True that Britain and America’s relationship in 1916/17 was not a precise precursor to the current Israel/US relatiomship but it is interesting to note the British spying on US diplomatic cables….. Of course!!

  231. @Henry's Cat

    I’m not certain to which of my remarks you’re referring in your last comment.

    Thus far, I made no claims concerning the ability of anyone — either pro- or anti-skeptic — to “willingly invite even the slightest bit of scrutiny.”

  232. @Robjil

    What in lawyers’ court jargon is called “non responsive”.

    Alternatively “So?”

  233. @Incitatus

    I think you must be Hungarian 😉

  234. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Hello Wizard;

    I shouldn’t take the bait, but still, I will you update about the “credibility” of the “NIST stuff”.

    In 2016, EurophysicsNews, the magazine of the European Physics Society, a peer-reviewed publishing organisation, issued a noted article about the WTC collapse, entitled “15 years later: On the Physics of High-Rise Buildings”.

    https://www.europhysicsnews.org/articles/epn/abs/2016/04/epn2016474p21/epn2016474p21.html

    1) The articles states with regard to WTC7:
    NIST’s final report provides an elaborate scenario involving an unprecedented failure mechanism. [.. ] NIST was able to arrive at this scenario only by omitting or misrepresenting critical structural features in its computer modelling. Correcting just one of these errors renders NIST’s collapse initiation indisputably impossible. Yet even with errors that were favourable to its predetermined conclusion, NIST’s computer model fails to replicate the observed collapse [..]

    2) And it is even more radical concerning NIST’s version of the collapse of Twin Towers:
    ” the definitive report on the collapse of the Twin Towers contains no analysis of why the lower sections failed to arrest or even slow the descent of the upper sections—which NIST acknowledges “came down essentially in free fall”.

    And the articles ends up with the following conclusion:

    It bears repeating that fires have never caused the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise before or since 9/11.
    Did we witness an unprecedented event three separate times on September 11, 2001? The NIST reports, which attempted to support that unlikely conclusion, fail to persuade a growing number of architects, engineers, and scientists. Instead, the evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that all three buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition
    .

    The fairies in Tel-Aviv want us to believe that the WTC collapsed by the magic of office fires. Why not? As fellow commentator J2 says, to hell with Physics, with Science, with Engineering, with Isaac Newton and James Maxwell !!! …. Let’s all believe in the fairies in Tel-Aviv instead.

  235. One Tribe says:
    @MEFOBILLS

    Thank you so much for, paying attention, and sharing.

    I don’t disagree with much of what you wrote, however, part of my recommendation would be to try education (for everybody, incidentally; just the facts for all; and then, as still part of the plan, pay attention and don’t decide anything else until you see how the primary plan is going’.
    Why get ahead of ourselves?

    Your example of Iran and who is staying is very, very interesting, and I believe could be very relevant, in… the education.

    I agree that usury and rent have to be brought under control, perhaps on a global scale; these are key operational elements that work against the ongoing viability of functioning society.

    BTW: understanding that actually implementing the education, might give rise to … warfare-like events.

    Many times we have seen analysts, some we respect, suggesting that the new form of warfare is comprised of:
    – 80% informational
    – 15% economic
    – 5% kinetic, usually by proxy forces

    The war is well underway.
    It’s just that nobody told me?

    But it doesn’t take too much looking at the facts and comparing them to even physical possibilities, as our science understands and explains the world around us in a comparatively objective manner, to start to become intrigued by the strange trend of exceptional outcomes, strange especially in its odd consistency and reliability!

    They are vulnerable to the actual facts!
    That’s a fact.

    Getting the facts out there is the highest-probability-of-winning tactic, right now.

    All free minds must contemplate and exchange alternative approaches for how?

  236. Anonymous[188] • Disclaimer says:
    @ThreeCranes

    What I meant in my original comment was that the lower portion of the building was already designed to hold up the upper part. There was no sudden added crushing weight as many people imagine.

    Exactly, and the lower portion was actually designed to hold up much more than the upper part to allow for emergency situations, misuse or deterioration. It’s called “Factor of Safety”. I don’t know what factor they used for WTCs but it had to be at least 2 (double the expected load) even for non-critical components.

    Which would mean that even if one floor completely vanishes, for some sci-fi reason, the lower portion would have no problem withstanding the top plus a few meters of acceleration. We’d see plenty of localised damage in the impact area after which the top of the building would quickly move into the path of least resistance and fall over the side.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    , @Wizard of Oz
  237. Sean says:
    @Iris

    The second law of thermodynamics suggests that life should not exist, yet here we are.

    Correcting just one of these errors renders NIST’s collapse initiation indisputably impossible

    Something the weight of the Titanic high in the sky represents potential energy, and an impact and a fire could free that potential energy. As Wizard Of Oz pointed out the tower with the greatest number of floors above the impact was significantly faster down to the ground. The Titanic sank to the bottom of the sea, but there are people who say otherwise (the one I know is a card carrying schizophrenic ).

    “Does the flap of a butterfly’s wings in Brazil set off a tornado in Texas?” – Edward Lorenz

    When Donald Trump started campaigning he was universally laughed at. When he said Mexicans coming tothe US were rapists and murderers he was universally regarded as doomed. When he mocked McCain everyone thought Trump was commiting political suicide, but Trump seemed to lose no indispensible amount of support at any stage . One would think that Trump would have acculumlated too much damage from the numerous bitter controversies he got into during the campaign, but that did not happen. How could he destoy opponent after opponent with being so progressively pulverised himself so as to be out of wherewithal before the end? Runaway momentum, that is how.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  238. Iris says:

    Over 16 lines of pussyfooting, Sean. I’ll do it in 1 line:

    The 9/11 official version is a cock and bull story written by the creative writers in Tel Aviv.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski, republic
  239. @Iris

    I wonder whether you are a liar in the real sense or just in the internet blog sense but I would like to think you were just lazy and a little inebriated because it didn’t take me long, after wondering what Europeanphysicsnews was and doing a search, to come up with the fact that the paper you cite by several wellknown *American* 9/11 conspiracy theorists was not a “peer reviewed paper or indeed accepted by the publisher as any kind of scientific paper. E.g. see this fact check

    Claim
    The European Scientific Journal, a peer-reviewed academic publication, concluded that the collapse of the Twin Towers and World Trade Center Building 7 on 11 September 2001 was the result of a controlled demolition.

    [MORE]

    See Example(s)
    Rating

    False
    About this rating
    Origin
    In their July-August 2016 issue, the science news magazine Europhysics News (EPN) published a feature by a group of scientists who have long been involved with the promotion of 9/11 conspiracy theories. The piece argued that the structural failure of the WTC buildings on 9/11 was not adequately explained by burning jet fuel, and that it was instead better explained by a controlled demolition:

    [T]he evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that all three buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition. Given the far-reaching implications, it is morally imperative that this hypothesis be the subject of a truly scientific and impartial investigation by responsible authorities.

    Unfortunately, that truly scientific and impartial study is not this paper. EPN, which is run by the European Physics Agency and owned by EDP Sciences (a company unrelated to the the entity that owns the European Scientific Journal), even put a disclaimer at the beginning of the story stating that it was “somewhat different” from its “purely scientific articles” in that it includes “some” speculation:

    This feature is somewhat different from our usual purely scientific articles, in that it contains some speculation. However, given the timing and the importance of the issue, we consider that this feature is sufficiently technical and interesting to merit publication for our readers. Obviously, the content of this article is the responsibility of the authors.
    These caveats in place, a variety of websites — notably the website Anon HQ — published the claim that this news feature was a scientific article published in the European Scientific Journal, suggesting that because it was peer-reviewed it was a stronger validation than than previously published conspiracy theories. In response, the publishers of the European Scientific Journal issued a statement clarifying that they had nothing to do with the article:

    Regarding the recent developments on social media, we would like to inform the public that neither the European Scientific Journal, ESJ, nor the European Scientific Institute, ESI have published content on 9/11 attacks.

    Issues of false attribution aside, the article was written by four authors who have aggressively promoted 9/11 conspiracy theories and who are members of groups such as Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth and Scholars for 911 Truth. The paper primarily targets the official conclusion of the NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster, which argued that fire adequately explained the collapse of all three WTC buildings. The Europhysics Newsarticle relied heavily on discredited claims, none of which were new, including:

    Jet fuel cannot melt steel beams (This claim is misleading, as steel beams do to not need to melt completely to be compromised structurally).
    A sprinkler system would have prevented temperatures from rising high enough to cause to cause structural damage. (This claim ignores the fact that a crash from a 767 jet would likely destroy such a system.)
    The structural system would have been protected by fireproofing material (similarly, such a system would have been damaged in a 767 crash).
    Puffs of smoke exploding from below the collapsing towers suggests controlled demolition. (This claim does little to address the simplerexplanation that air pressure from the collapse of one of the largest buildings ever built would have forced air and debris through windows).
    The buildings fell at a rate possible only by a controlled demolition. (Numerous engineers and scientists have argued that the rate at which the buildings fell is consistent with the manner in which the towers failed, and that the exact time of total collapse is hard to pin down reliably in the first place.)
    In response to the EPN story, NIST, the government agency that investigated the World Trade Center attack, stated that they stand behind their study, calling it “the most detailed examination of structural failure ever conducted.”

    For their part, EPN released a statement after having been pressed by podcaster Stephen Knight:

    EPN is a magazine that publishes a range of news and views to stimulate discussion – unlike peer reviewed research which would be published in a scholarly journal. EDP Sciences [their parent company] follows the most rigorous peer review standards for its journals of which EPN is not one.

    As a magazine, the editorial policy of EPN is to publish news and views, which are sometimes controversial. EDP Sciences recognizes that the article discusses some speculative and controversial issues. However EPN and EDP Sciences believe that the best (and the most scientific) way to settle such issues is to publish them and have an open discussion with all due arguments in which the truth will finally emerge. A counter article is to be published by EPN in the next issue.

    BY ALEX KASPRAK
    PUBLISHED 9 OCTOBER 2016
    FILED UNDER 9/11 , SEPTEMBER 11 , TWIN TOWERS
    Dear Reader,
    Snopes.com has long been engaged in the battle against misinformation, an effort we could not sustain without support from our audience. Producing reliable fact-checking and thorough investigative reporting requires significant resources. We pay writers, editors, web developers, and other staff who work tirelessly to provide you with an invaluable service: evidence-based, contextualized analysis of facts. Help us keep Snopes.com strong. Make a direct contribution today. Learn More.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @j2
  240. Robjil says:

    Wiz,

    Snopes does not work for the good of humanity. It is a tool to control us. We all have critical thinking skills that works just fine. We do not need a tool to brainwash us like Snopes.

    http://accuracyinpolitics.blogspot.com/2013/05/snopes-got-snoped.html

    “Snopes is run by a man and a woman with no background in investigation using Google.
    Snopes.com has been considered the ‘tell-all final word’ on any comment, claim and email. Once negative article by them and people point and say, “See, I told you it wasn’t true!” But what is Snopes? What are their methods and training that gives them the authority to decide what is true and what is not? For several years people have tried to find out who exactly was behind the website Snopes.com. Only recently did they get to the bottom of it. Are you ready for this? It is run by a husband and wife team – that’s right, no big office of investigators scouring public records in Washington, no researchers studying historical stacks in libraries, no team of lawyers reaching a consensus on current caselaw. No, Snopes.com is just a mom-and-pop operation that was started by two people who have absolutely no formal background or experience in investigative research.”

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Wizard of Oz
  241. Robjil says:
    @Sean

    Humanity advanced through the use of critical thinking. Santa Clausism, believing whatever the big grown ups say no matter how irrational, which you seem believe in so much keeps us in a child like state.

    If this Santa Clausism continues to be promoted by our MSM, humanity will descend down the evolutionary ladder. It will be a “runaway momentum”, as you say, straight to bottom. Soon the chimpanzees will have new neighbors. Our “leaders” already are at the chimp level. Chimps are aggressive, tribal and violent. This is exactly how the PNAC doctrine has been working since the nine eleven false flag.

    Our MSM is trying best to stomp any critical thinking going on.

    • Replies: @Sean
  242. @Iris

    It bears repeating that fires have never caused the total collapse of a steel-framed high-rise before or since 9/11.

    How about the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edif%C3%ADcio_Wilton_Paes_de_Almeida ?

    YouTube:

    There’s also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasco_Building

    Neither had been hit by a plane, apparently.

    • Replies: @Herald
  243. @Wizard of Oz

    It may just have been someone who was joking and turned out they accidentally got it right

    LOL! For someone who constantly references Occam’s razor it’s odd that you seem to latch on to the most unlikely and absurdist theories like few others. Your previous efforts include “JFK was shot accidentally by an SS agent who lost his balance while travelling behind the presidential limo”. “The explosions in the Twin Towers were possibly as a result of hot aluminium coming into contact with the cold water from the sprinkler systems” Yessiree!

    Hilarious stuff Wiz. You should be on the stage!

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  244. @Andrew E. Mathis

    There were total power shutdowns just prior to the event for the first time in the history of the buildings. IIRC the reason given was for data cable upgrades.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Wally
  245. @Incitatus

    The question was answered…

    Essentially because of intimidation by The usual Enemies of Free Speech.

    It’s quite clear from the above that it is you with the comprehension problems and FYI, 99.65% of professional architects and engineers have not stated that Newton’s Laws of physics (not theories) were miraculously suspended on 9/11 as you attempted to imply, albeit weakly and with your customary disingenuous MO.

    It would appear that old queens never die, they just take a break for a while. Welcome back IDI, we’ve missed your bullshit.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  246. @Wizard of Oz

    Just stop it Wiz, before you go blind.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  247. Mike P says:
    @Robjil

    Snopes does not work for the good of humanity.

    They sure do – they always tell us what exactly the PTB want us to think. You know the saying “Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied” – Snopes provides a timely and comprehensive Official Denial Service. If that is not to the good of humanity, I don’t know what is.

  248. If their IQ is that high, why do they have to cheat steal and lie all the time. ??

  249. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Wiz wrote; “after wondering what Europeanphysicsnews was and doing a search, to come up with the fact that the paper you cite by several wellknown *American* 9/11 conspiracy theorists was not a “peer reviewed paper or indeed accepted by the publisher as any kind of scientific paper.”

    Wiz, maybe this is again one of the fields you do not know that well.

    For two decades I paid the membership fee of the Finnish Physics Association and, as all members paying the membership fee, regularly got the European Physics News and the national publication Archimedes. (Then I decided that I probably will not move back to physics and resigned.)
    Both bulletins had interesting articles written by competent scientific authors.

    Peer-review is used for original scientific contributions and the articles in these bulletins are not intended as publications of original research but as information of what is actual in physics for a large audience of physicists. The article of WTC was not original research as those claims were known for a long time and published elsewhere. Thus, the article was not written to be submitted to a peer-reviewed journal. it was submitted to the attention of a very large audience of professional physicists and someone would certainly comment in case the claims were false.

    But if we drop the question of originality of the contribution and focus on reliability of the information, I would any time put European Physics News above many American peer reviewed journals, e.g. many of those of the IEEE. Many original papers present claims that are later refuted.

    Peer-review does not at all mean checking the paper for validity. Indeed, papers accepted by editors are checked by as competent or a more competent person than is the case in the peer-review process. Editors of science bulletins act and have acted as referees in quite many peer-reviewed papers. Thus, for checking the validity of the claims the European Physics News is a more valued forum and it is more difficult there to pass through incorrect claims than in American peer-reviewed (or let us say, friend-reviewed) journals.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Iris
  250. Sparkon says:
    @Twodees Partain

    What is obvious is that this was not a collapse caused by an airplane collision and subsequent fires.

    We agree on most of that. However, I insist it wasn’t any kind of traditional “collapse” in the case of the twin towers. Those buildings were blown apart sequentially from the top down, with much material ejected laterally, along with clouds of toxic dust that ended up all over lower Manhattan, and not in the twin towers’ footprints. Thus the destruction of the WTC twin towers was not a “collapse” in any sense of the word.

    You’re still trying to have it both ways. If material from the twin towers was blown all over lower Manhattan, then it is completely inaccurate to parrot this dogma that the WTC collapsed into its own footprint. ‘Didn’t happen.

    Indeed, I cannot be sure even that the videos showing the WTCs being torn apart are 100% unedited. I’m reasonably certain, in fact, that the initiation of the destructive sequence for each building must be CGI because I cannot understand how the tops of each tower could’ve been separated from the lower floors, as we saw in the videos.

    Again I stress that video insertion systems — such as that marketed by PVI before 2000 — had the capability to remove (edit) solid objects from a video, and add or paste over live action with animated CGI sequences, and do it all in real time.

  251. @Henry's Cat

    You can’t tell the difference between computer graphics and a real plane? Of course you can. You are not one of the “sheeple.” You are one of the wolves. No planes, fake fires fueled by butane, collapse through controlled demolition, payoff through insurance fraud and stock market fraud and the blood of millions are on your head. It won’t bother you, of course, you need a soul for that, and you don’t have one.

  252. @Anonymous

    Not to beat a dead horse, but to sum up my take on the whole thing in one sentence.

    If a modern, steel-framed, high-rise building could be brought down within its own footprint by unplanned destruction of a randomly selected portion of the building, then why do building demolition experts go to such lengths to place a myriad of charges at very carefully selected sites and set them off in a meticulously timed sequence?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  253. @Kevin Barrett

    Demolishing them legally would have cost billions.

    In contrast, Silverstein is said to have made billions by collecting insurance, but it may be a mere rumor.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  254. I shouldn’t have been so naive!

    AE911Truth, probably most starched and ironed of all the 9/11 conspiracy groups, was formed in 2006 as a place for building experts to advocate for a reinvestigation of the World Trade Center attacks. AE911Truth has spent the past decade convincing a brain trust of YouTube commenters that tall buildings simply cannot collapse due to fire. But rather than accepting the Plasco Building as a thundering rebuttal to their theories, AE911Truth concluded that Plasco was also a controlled demolition. Before the dust had even settled in Tehran, AE911Truth issued a press release urging President Hassan Rouhani to investigate the “possible use of explosives” in the destruction of the tower.

    https://gizmodo.com/why-9-11-truthers-are-obsessed-with-the-plasco-high-ris-1822203542

  255. @NoseytheDuke

    You misunderstand Occam’s Razor.

    Take any acceptable version of it, e.g.

    The version used by scientists can best be summarized as: ‘when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better.’

    Or you can prefer an emphasis on choosing an explanation which requires fewer assumptions.

    In any case it has got nothing to do with negating the value of using imagination to find a possible simple explanation. Until proven otherwise (maybe via the Grand Jury already empanelled and subsequent public trial) I think the simple explanation is that what we thought we saw on TV in the shape of airliners hitting buildings occurred and set off fires which weakened the structures enough for gravity to prevail. Accordingly there would have to be innocent explanations of loud noises like explosions being heard, if they were, while the fires were burning and well before the buildings collapsed. One possibility – just to illustrate the fact that there are available plausible explanations – is explosions of molten aluminium and water (isn’t thermite an illustration of the explosive or heat generatingpower power of aluminium?).

    Likewise, you even mistake the way I referred to McLaren et als, theory about the head shot from the Secret Service man. I merely observed (a) that I hadn’t come across any dismissal of its physical possibility, and that, *if* you wanted a conspiracy you could believe in, and a reason for some pretty odd behaviour by the Secret Service, this possible one had the advantage that you didn’t even have to postulate wickedness to understand why it might have been covered up. As with 9/11 Occam’s Razor says that a cover up is best explained by an embarrassing cock up. Surely you know that good old Australian maxim that healthy minded politicians of all parties repeat about what you should prefer every time the choice is between a conspiracy and a cock up. Practical Occamism at work.

    • Troll: Rurik
  256. @Robjil

    That’s your argument from [negative] authority. Now what’s your substantive answer on the issue and the checkable matters he/she raised?

  257. @j2

    Do you pay any attention to what other people say.? You have wasted my time reading totally non responsive irrelevant guff. Iris had asserted peer reviewed (clearly a scientific research paper) and I gave good reason for believing that to be nonsense. I drew attention to the editors distancing themselves from the piece by four notorious activists. So, really, what is your point?.

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @j2
  258. @jacques sheete

    It appears from one report I recall that he had not updated the insurance on WTC7 but had, some months earlier, on WTC 1 and 2 because it was required part of the bank financing package. I have not seen it plausibly reported that he over insured.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  259. @NoseytheDuke

    Total BS because total guesswork. A tiny fraction of all the persons claiming to be not just Richard Gage’s mates but architects and engineers signed up many years ago and then, you say, it stopped because of pressure from the powerful. There has to be just some little bit of evidence of that from the remaining hundreds of thousands. But you haven’t even produced stray fag ends of anecdotal evidence let alone a real case for what you fecklessly assert.

  260. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    insurance on WTC7

    here the mass-murdering psychopath admits that he had plans drawn up for the new building Seven in 2000, a year before the convenient (and extremely profitable) destruction of the buildings.

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/911-larry-silverstein-designed-new-wtc-7-one-year-attacks/214821/

    Silverstein breezes over the demolitions of 9/11/2001 as if they were not even worth remarking on, instead going straight from his new-WTC-7 design meeting in April 2000 to the beginning of construction in 2002.

    • Agree: Robjil
  261. @NoseytheDuke

    Have you read the prima facie evidence I provided that she was either stupid, or drunk, or lying? Are you really going into bat for her low grade tripe? If so, let’s hear it.

    You know we really are down to the final test. If those buildings couldn’t have collapsed as they did without deliberate demolition then it will only be a question of which non ObL conspiracy theory gets up. Otherwise, truthers pack up! Want a side bet? Say $100,000 at even money, Steve Sailer to arbitrate. Even if you’ve blown Daddy’s money you say you are highly paid so I don’t imagine it would be more than a flesh wound to lose.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Gg Mo
  262. Sparkon says:
    @ThreeCranes

    then why do building demolition experts go to such lengths to place a myriad of charges at very carefully selected sites and set them off in a meticulously timed sequence?

    Indeed, professionals do it that way in a classic controlled demolition so that debris from the demolished building does not fly all over the place and damage adjacent property, but rather the debris falls into — and is confined within — the demolished structure’s footprint. Contrast with the WTC on 9/11.

    FEMA’s debris distribution schematic.

    For scale, each twin tower had a footprint of 208’x208′. The exterior columns embedded in the Winter Garden Atrium were hurled laterally over 400 feet.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  263. denk says:

    Who benefits, ?
    The deep state.

    Whats’ the crime ?
    911

    When ?
    2001

    Why ?
    Enabled Boots on the ground in Afpak, all Stans, Africa.
    Carte Blanche to attack any country accused of
    harboring terrorists.

    Thats’ enough.

    There’s a reason for placing How right at the bottom,
    wasting too much time debating the methods is counter productive,.
    Apprehend the criminals and waterboard them,
    they’ll spill out everything.

    ——————————-
    How ?
    Planes, missiles, mini nukes , C4 ???

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50390.htm

  264. Sean says:
    @Robjil

    Schizotypal personality disorder (STPD) or schizotypal disorder is a mental disorder characterized by severe social anxiety, thought disorder, paranoid ideation, derealization, transient psychosis, and often unconventional beliefs.

  265. Anonymous[730] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sparkon

    Your own picture proves controlled demolitions – or did you expect several hundred thousand tons of material to compress itself into a super-dense, ten-story cube at the bottom? Lol!

    So no – the purpose of controlled demolitions is not to contain every little bit of debris within the building’s floor-plan. That’s not what “into the footprint” means and it’d be impossible. Some debris always spills over of flies off and in the case of such huge buildings the sheer amount of mass has to end up covering a very wide area.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  266. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    ” clearly a scientific research paper and I gave good reason for believing that to be nonsense.”

    How very wet this water was”. Well done for finding yet another way to look stupid.

    Specialised physics paper are, of course, for specialists and are generally based on arduous mathematics, whereas the magazine of the ESP addresses the larger public.
    How you could confuse an article written in layman English with research papers based on specialist concepts only indicates your education issues.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  267. Iris says: • Website
    @j2

    Thanks for your time and consideration, J2.

    I have found interesting new research regarding the possible use of nuclear explosives at the WTC. The physicists who came up with it have, as expected, based a large part of their demonstration on the excessive temperatures measured on the footprints of the 3 towers (and only them !) for over 3 months.; they also made other very original and convincing observations.

    1- In the aftermath of the collapse, most of the fumes escaping the WTC had the appearance of steam. This is quite obvious from the below photo, with very white fumes to the left in contrast with the darker streak in the middle. The WTC behaved like a giant steam turbine. So, where did the water and the heat come from?

    And another photo showing very white “fumes” coming out the rubble; this looks more like water vapour.

    So, the WTC was operating like a giant steam turbine. Where did the necessary water and heat come from?

    2- The researchers next address the water supply and relate it to the damage incurred by the “Bathtub”, the fence protecting the site against groundwater.
    Sections of the Bathtub basement walls got damaged, while others near WTC2 completely collapsed.

    How could a heavily-engineered underground structure be so affected by explosions at the furthest points, at the top of the towers? It is incomprehensible, unless of course the basement was precisely the seat of these explosions. The damage to the walls then allowed water ingress and the supply of water.

    3- Finally, they address the supply of heat, using a very sensible quantitative method.
    The heat footprint of the WTC towers allows assessing the temperature at the considered time by infrared thermography.
    Calculating only the heat transfer occurring by convection is relatively easy: such transfer is exponentially decreasing. Once the characteristic period (Tau) is determined, one can calculate the initial energy at collapse, when the heat transfer started.

    The approximate initial energy value calculated was a staggering 1 petaJoules (10 to the power of 15 Joules). Producing such level of energy would require:
    – about 100,000 tons of fossil fuel
    – or about 1000 tons of nuclear fuel.

    The calculation elegantly demonstrate that only nuclear explosives could have the production of heat such as recorded at the WTC.

    The research is available on several German and French Physics websites, so the genie of truth is definitely out of the Zionist bottle. Best.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @Iris
    , @Mike P
  268. j2 says:
    @Iris

    “The research is available on several German and French Physics websites, so the genie of truth is definitely out of the Zionist bottle.”

    Thanks Iris! Another highly interesting comment from you. I will try to look at this, though I do not know much anything of nukes. Could you send me a link to this study, I read both languages, French maybe somewhat better, my German is from school times and very rusty.

  269. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Do you pay any attention to what other people say.? You have wasted my time reading totally non responsive irrelevant guff. Iris had asserted peer reviewed (clearly a scientific research paper) and I gave good reason for believing that to be nonsense.”

    Gee, Wiz, sorry. You are always my favorite hasbara, but the only lies I have noticed from Iris are the compliments she likes to write. I admit I did not read your comment to the end, stopped at the word lies.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  270. Sparkon says:
    @Anonymous

    Your own picture proves controlled demolitions

    Where did I say anything else?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  271. Iris says: • Website
    @Iris

    @J2

    Typo error. The energy required should read 10 tons of nuclear fuel, equivalent to 100,000 tons of fossil fuel.

  272. Anonymous[730] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sparkon

    Here:

    Contrast with the WTC on 9/11.

    If you’re “contrasting” a claim with a picture (evidence) you have to explain why “contrasting” means “agree”. If you don’t, “contrasting” stands on its own.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  273. Mike P says:
    @Iris

    The approximate initial energy value calculated was a staggering 1 petaJoules (10 to the power of 15 Joules). Producing such level of energy would require:
    – about 100,000 tons of fossil fuel
    – or about 1000 tons of nuclear fuel.

    The calculation for fossil fuel is approximately correct, but there is a slight problem – we still need the oxygen to burn it, which would be pretty close to 3 times as much by weight. Thus, 100,000 tons of fossil fuel + 300,000 tons of oxygen. Of course, real explosives have the oxygen built into the molecular structure – so you would have something like 400 to 500,000 tons of chemical explosive.

    The calculation for nuclear fuel is vastly off, however. Remember that the Hiroshima bomb (allegedly) released an energy equivalent of some 15-20,000 tons of TNT, by fissioning an alleged 2 kg of 235-U (out of the, allegedly, 50 kg of uranium the bomb contained). So, the weight ratio here is approximately 1 kg of fissionable uranium to 10,000,000 kg of conventional explosive. Thus, only some 50 kg of 235-U would have had to undergo fission in order to release the amount of heat allegedly required to produce the effects that allegedly occurred at “ground zero.” The numbers for plutonium bombs are slightly different but not much.

    However, I just don’t believe that anywhere near this amount of energy was involved. If indeed a nuclear blast had occurred, there should have been a large amount of radioactive contamination. I have looked for but not found evidence of that. Also, a nuclear explosion is just that, an explosion; the radioactivity of the fission products would peter out pretty rapidly; for the heat to still linger after months, the heat in the immediate aftermath would have been enormous. As far as I can see, it just does not fit the facts.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  274. Anonymous[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    No it is you that are looking stupid for having forgotten, or thinking that no one would notice, that it was *you* that put in bold that the paper you cited was in a journal that used peer review. *You* dishonestly tried to give it scientific status.

  275. Anonymous[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    Haven’t you just shot yourself in the foot? Unless he had raised the insurance on WTC7 shortly before 9/11 how can you connect his plans for its redevelopment to anything sinister?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  276. Anonymous[187] • Disclaimer says:
    @wayfarer

    Interesting that you identify with that low IQ wigger.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  277. @j2

    OK. Keep it short for your attention span. How do you justify Iris’s bold emphasis on peer review when the publishers had clearly said the piece was not a peer reviewed scientific paper? Where did you stop reading in her comments so you could give your fatuous approval to her crap. And have you now gone nuclear with her?

    • Replies: @j2
  278. Sparkon says:
    @Anonymous

    I said:

    Indeed, professionals do it that way in a classic controlled demolition so that debris from the demolished building does not fly all over the place and damage adjacent property, but rather the debris falls into — and is confined within — the demolished structure’s footprint. Contrast with the WTC on 9/11.

    Nowhere have I ever said that the WTC buildings weren’t blown up on 9/11.

    “Contrast” because all debris from WTC 1 and WTC 2 did not fall into their respective footprints as in a “classic controlled demolition.” It doesn’t mean that the buildings weren’t demolished, but that the debris didn’t fall straight down and rather flew all over the place and did damage adjacent buildings. That’s the contrast. I know it must be a difficult point for you, but please read my other comments before confusing yourself, and others.

    We agree on most of that. However, I insist it wasn’t any kind of traditional “collapse” in the case of the twin towers. Those buildings were blown apart sequentially from the top down, with much material ejected laterally, along with clouds of toxic dust that ended up all over lower Manhattan, and not in the twin towers’ footprints. Thus the destruction of the WTC twin towers was not a “collapse” in any sense of the word.

    http://www.unz.com/kbarrett/alan-israel-did-9-11-sabrosky-most-censored-man-in-america/#comment-3118273

    Is it crystal clear for you yet, or do you need more help?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  279. Paul C. says:
    @Rurik

    here the mass-murdering psychopath admits that he had plans drawn up for the new building Seven in 2000, a year before the convenient (and extremely profitable) destruction of the buildings

    .

    One of the many faces of evil. He and his children worked in one of the Twin Towers and all were conveniently not there that day. Presumably they knew many people in those buildings. I don’t know how they can live with themselves.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  280. @Wizard of Oz

    Dear Dummy Whizzy, Please avail yourself of the following and try to broaden your mind. I do realise that that is like telling a chironomus spp to spread his wings but do try.

    Scholars who attempt to elucidate the crime perpetrated on 9/11 – who are commonly referred to as 9/11 truthers – are often criticized for relying on conjecture and speculation in support of their claims. Such criticism may at times be justified, though often made in bad faith. There is actually no need to resort to speculative arguments that the official account of 9/11 is a fraud since there are hard facts that support this conclusion. Here are 10 such undisputed facts:

    [MORE]

    1. U.S. authorities have failed to trace, arrest, try (prosecute), and punish anyone responsible for the crime against humanity committed on 9/11.

    The mass murder committed on September 11, 2001 represents, under international law, a crime against humanity. The State where it was committed – in this case the United States of America – bears the obligation to the international community to trace, arrest, try, and punish individuals responsible for that crime.

    Since 2002, U.S. authorities admit they have detained a handful of persons at Guantánamo Bay who are accused of helping to orchestrate 9/11. Their identities remain in doubt; their alleged confessions were made behind closed doors; and their trial by a military court does not fulfill minimal international norms of due process.

    U.S. authorities claim to have sentenced Zacarias Moussaoui to life imprisonment for not having warned the FBI about the preparations for 9/11, an allegation he denied. No evidence was presented that he was involved in the preparations for 9/11 or knew anything about these preparations. No evidence was presented that he even knew the alleged hijackers. U.S. authorities also claim to hold, since 2003, a man by the name of Khalid Sheikh Mohamed (KSM) in Guantánamo who allegedly confessed to have masterminded 9/11 and more than 30 other terrorist operations. He also allegedly confessed to having planned an attack on a bank in Washington State that did not exist until after he was already in Guantánamo. The man, whose identity remains murky and whose connection to 9/11 is limited to what he said in his ludicrous confession, has not been prosecuted, let alone sentenced. No one seriously expects him to be ever brought to trial, let alone a trial fulfilling international norms.

    2. When announcing to the United Nations their decision to attack Afghanistan, U.S. authorities failed to provide evidence that the crime of 9/11 was in any way connected to Afghanistan. In fact, such evidence has still not been produced.

    See the letter from U.S. Representative John Negroponte to the President of the UN Security Council, October 7, 2001 (mirrored here).

    3. The United States government did not authorize an investigation of the events of 9/11 that could have fulfilled minimal international standards: The 9/11 Commission was neither independent nor impartial, and its investigation was neither thorough nor transparent.

    Regarding minimal standards of investigation, see Elias Davidsson, “The Events of 11 September 2001 and the Right to the Truth.” (See this or this)

    4. Despite vilifying Osama bin Laden as a terrorist leader, judicial authorities in the United States have failed to charge him in connection with 9/11. He was not even wanted in connection with this crime.

    The FBI admitted in June 2006 that it possesses no concrete evidence linking Osama bin Laden to 9/11. (See: Ed Haas, “FBI says, it has no ‘hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11,” Information Clearing House, June 18, 2006, mirrored here)

    5. Authorities in the United States have failed to produce clear and convincing evidence that the 19 persons named by the FBI as 9/11 hijackers even boarded aircraft that they are alleged to have subsequently hijacked.

    To be precise: U.S. authorities have failed to produce authenticated passenger lists that would include the names of the alleged hijackers; witnesses who saw these alleged hijackers in the airports or boarding the aircraft; authenticated security-camera videos proving their presence in the airports of departure; and DNA identification of these individuals’ bodily remains (see detailed analysis in Elias Davidsson, Hijacking America’s Mind on 9/11 [Algora Publishers, New York, 2013], Chapter 2).

    6. U.S. authorities have failed to produce clear and convincing evidence that passenger airliners crashed at the known landmarks on 9/11.

    The FBI admitted in a letter to the Nevada District U.S. Court on March 14, 2008, signed by Assistant U.S. Attorney Patrick A. Rose, that records detailing the collection and positive identification of the wreckage of the crashed aircraft do not exist (Letter mirrored here). He thus admitted that the FBI failed to formally identify the wreckage found at the various crash sites as belonging to the allegedly hijacked aircraft. It is, therefore, not established that the allegedly hijacked aircraft crashed at these locations.

    7. U.S. authorities have failed to explain why more than 1,100 persons, who were present at the World Trade Center on 9/11, vanished into thin air.

    Vast parts of the Twin Towers were literally pulverized as can be seen from video recordings, photos, and testimonies. Of more than 1,100 missing persons, not a single tooth, nail, or bone has been found as of 2011 (See, inter alia, Anemona Hartocollis, “Connecting with lost loved ones, if only by the tips of fingers,” The New York Times, September 11, 2011 [mirrored here]). U.S. authorities have never explained what could have caused more than 1,100 persons to vanish without leaving a trace. They bear the obligation, under human rights law, to determine the reason for such disappearances.

    8. U.S. authorities compensated families of 9/11 victims that agreed to waive their right to further court action. The compensation exceeded by at least seven times what was paid to the families of firefighters who died in rescue operations on 9/11.

    The families of 9/11 victims received from the U.S. Compensation Fund, established in October 2001, an average of $2.1 million if they agreed to waive their right to engage in civil proceedings (see, inter alia, Brian Bernbaum, “9/11 Fund Chief Faults Payments,” CBS News, 4.9.2003 [mirrored here]). As of 2013, spouses of firefighters who die in line of duty can obtain $333,605 under the Public Safety Officers’ Benefits (PSOB) Act (42 U.S.C. 3796). The figure for 2001 was undoubtedly lower. The 95 families, who did not apply to the Compensation Fund and preferred to let courts determine their rights, obtained an average of $5.5 million in out-of-court settlements (see, Ashby Jones, “The 9/11 Victim Settlements: A Chat with Skadden’s Sheila Birnbaum,” The Wall Street Journal, 13.3.2009 [mirrored here]).

    9. U.S. authorities have failed to explain the effect of numerous military drills conducted on the morning of 9/11 – including the simulation of aircraft hijackings – on the commission of the mass murder.

    Military drills caused confusion and surprised military and civilian personnel responsible for air traffic, as reported in U.S. media. For example, NORAD Major General Larry Arnold said that, “By the end of the day, we had twenty-one aircraft identified as possible hijackings.” (See, Eric Hehs, “Conversation with Major General Larry Arnold,” One Magazine, January 2002 [mirrored here]). Colonel Robert Marr, NEADS battle commander, said he had been told that across the nation there were “29 different reports of hijackings.” (See, Robert A. Baker, “Commander of 9/11 Air Defenses Retires,” Newhouse News Service, March 31, 2005 [mirrored here]). U.S. authorities failed to explain how these drills affected the commission of the crime, including the apparent failure to intercept hijacked aircraft.

    10. U.S. authorities promoted numerous officials who, according to the official account on 9/11, had failed to carry out their duties with regard to 9/11. Not a single person has been held accountable anywhere in government for what went wrong on or prior to 9/11.

    Here are few examples: Richard Myers, in charge of the Pentagon on 9/11, was promoted to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on October 1, 2001; Ralph Eberhart, in charge of NORAD on 9/11, was promoted to head the new “Northern Command” a year after 9/11; Captain Charles J. Leidig, acting NMCC Director on 9/11, was promoted in 2004 to the rank of admiral; Brigadier General Montague Winfield, who on 9/11 was in charge of the National Military Command Center (NMCC), was promoted in May 2003 to the two-star rank of major general; Marion (Spike) Bowman, who blocked FBI investigations into the alleged hijackers before 9/11, was given an award for “exceptional performance” after a 9/11 Congressional Inquiry report claimed that his unit gave Minneapolis FBI agents “inexcusably confused and inaccurate information” that was “patently false.”

    Conclusion

    The above facts are sufficient to reject the official account of 9/11 and consider the administration of President George W. Bush as the main suspect for this crime against humanity. While the facts are not sufficient for leveling criminal charges against specific individuals, they permit general conclusions to be drawn regarding the dangerous nature of the U.S. regime and the complicity of the political class, mainstream media, academia, and the justice system of NATO member states in covering-up the crime of 9/11 and shielding those responsible for that crime.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/ten-irrefutable-devastating-911-facts/5637525

  281. wayfarer says:
    @Anonymous

    “AIPAC Has Taken Over the Government and Universities”

  282. @Mike P

    As to my comprehension capability, Mike P convincingly wrote: “Thus, only some 50 kg of 235-U would have had to undergo fission in order to release the amount of heat allegedly required to produce the effects that allegedly occurred at “ground zero.”

    Thanks for your educated & researched comment, Mike P!

    Nonetheless, as quoted above, I am uncertain as to why you twice used the word “allegedly.”

    The visual “effects” of the required “amount of heat” at “ground zero” are available for even Scranton School District bus drivers to see.🤗 A legitimate point and question?

    A You Tube video was/is available & which showed 9/11 emergency response workers at the “hot-hot” Ground Zero, & who were properly🤔dressed in OSHA approved (Level C) Personal Protection Equipment.

    Fyi, although it’s required, I do not recall seeing any Haz Mat radioactive air-monitoring activity going on during the crucial early days of the “ground zero” emergency response.
    But hell, why monitor for possible worker radioactivity exposure? Use LEL O2 meters!

    Suppose the overwhelming response effort was to some degree, operating under Mayor Rudy Giuliani’s operational emergency command.😟 Wonder who were the appointed on site (ground zero) Health & Safety supervisors? Hm. They might have been told that the expected & primary contaminant impact upon 9/11 molten steel & debris was merely fossil fuel, and “trust us.”💀

    Finally, it beats the fuck out of me to know that a significant portion of allegedly🙄 jet fuel (kerosene) contaminated WTC tower steel had to be shipped to China for metal recycling. (Zigh) Why dump trailer loads of 9/11 scrap steel could have been very cheaply recycled by Scranton-based metal recycling facilities & which are equipped with radioactivity monitors. And a little over a 2-hour (nighttime) run from Manhattan!

    Nonetheless, thanks very much for your “allegedly’👍 scientific and valuable comment, Mike P!

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Iris
  283. Anonymous[730] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sparkon

    They did fall into their own footprint, sparky.

    You obviously don’t understand what it means and assume that absolutely massive buildings with hundreds of thousands tons of volume can be compressed within their own floor-plan in any kind of demolition – controlled or uncontrolled.

    Interestingly enough, your twin brother in another thread, j2, is trying to sell the same rubbish at the same time and getting the same schooling. Any relation?

  284. Wally says:
    @Larry Kelley

    Really?

    DNA Links Prove Jews Are a ‘Race,’ Says Genetics Expert : https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.5220113

    Israeli lawmaker proclaims supremacy of ‘Jewish race’: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-lawmaker-lauds-supremacy-of-jewish-race/

    U.S. Court Rules Jews Are Protected ‘Race’ Under Civil Rights Act of 1964 : https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/u-s-court-rules-jews-are-protected-race-under-civil-rights-act-1.6291921

    Not according to Netanyahu who referred to Jews as a race.

  285. j2 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Where did you stop reading in her comments so you could give your fatuous approval to her crap. And have you now gone nuclear with her?”

    I just scanned those comments, I must have missed this particular comment. I gave my disapproval to your choice of words, that’s all. I like better the old Wiz, more cultured. I intend look again at the nuclear demolition theory. I have already twice thought about it and both times discarded it, but one should be open to all possible explanations as long as the problem is not solved.

  286. Herald says:
    @Henry's Cat

    “Then I’m part of the ‘sheeple’.” No one in their right mind would argue with that.

  287. Herald says:
    @Henry's Cat

    It’s not too hard for the realist to envisage that this collapse might well have been ably assisted by those who have the relevant experience of this sort of thing. Now another unprecedented collapse would really show those shiploads of sceptical architects and engineers that fire really can bring down a modern steel framed building, wouldn’t it just. Better still, make it happen at night and any anomalies will be less likely seen.

    The added bonus for the perps would be that all this happened in spiteful Iran, how tragic.

  288. Sparkon says:
    @Anonymous

    Nope, you’re still wrong. Study this schematic, which proves that all debris from the twin towers did not fall into into their respective footprints.

    Do you need help understanding the drawing?

  289. Rurik says:
    @Anonymous

    how can you connect his plans for its [WTC7] redevelopment to anything sinister?

    where were his plans for the dismantling of the existing building if he had plans for a new building drawn up?

    You can’t plop a new building there unless you first remove the existing one, and doing so would require plans, and permits from the Port Authority, and inspections and endless hand-wringing over the process of a controlled demolition vs. a systematic dismantling. And then a controlled demolition would have to have plans and contractors all lined up, and expensive evacuation protocols, all requiring city funds, and I would think massive expense to make sure the process was safe.

    Vs. coming up with a ‘clever’ idea with your good buddy Bibi, (with whom you were known to speak on a weekly basis), and a cabal of NYC Zionist psychopaths.

    In all probability, the decision to buy the lease to the WTC complex was only made once the ‘clever’ plan for the ‘attack’ (Jewish lightning) had been codified. Dov explained that from his position as Comptroller of the Pentagon, (where Rumsfeld had said trillions were missing from, on 9/10/2001) and with his expertise at remote controlled systems for jets, pulling it all off was going to be a cakewalk. And if anything went wrong, they already knew from their experience with the USS Liberty, that virtually anything they did, no matter how treacherous or pathological, would always be covered up with an owned and complicit media, and with owned and complicit goyim politicians. (Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Giuliani, etcetera ad nauseam)

    So as he stands there, discussing his plans for a new building Seven were finalized a year before the existing building serendipitously plopped into its basement at free-fall speed, we are privy to the thought-processes of a clinical psychopath. Utterly indifferent to the massive loss of (goyim) life his schemes would entail. Which was also going to be used to turn the 21st century into a blood-fest of slaughter for Greater Israel. Such a deal!

    You want to know what’s really sad?

    Is that I suspect these guys all realized that if the goyim ever really do figure it all out, that they’re not really going to do anything about it anyways. Just like with the Liberty, their bovine apathy (or greed, depending on from which perch the goyim occupy) will win the day, and all will simply trend on as if nothing happened. Because the goyim minds and their spirits and their will- all have been so systematically handicapped by generations of Jewish supremacist media programming, that the beast-like creatures they speak of in the Protocols, are what we’ve actually become.

    Hmm..

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Anonymous
  290. Sparkon says:
    @Anonymous

    .

    “You obviously don’t understand what it means and assume that absolutely massive buildings with hundreds of thousands tons of volume can be compressed within their own floor-plan in any kind of demolition – controlled or uncontrolled.”

    That’s special pleading. I know exactly what “into its own footprint” means, and haven’t assumed anything.

    Now you’re moving the goalpost and arguing that, because they were so massive, it would be impossible to contain all that material from the twin towers within their own footprints. So you acknowledge that it didn’t happen, just as I’ve been insisting.

    It’s not what I believe, but rather what the words mean. As Confucius said,

    “If words are not correct then language will not be in accordance with the truth of things.”

    Only those who are very sloppy with language — or who are trolling — can continue to insist that the twin towers were dropped onto their own footprints, when clearly they were not.

    The twin towers were demolished, but not in an entirely controlled fashion. There was extensive damage to surrounding property because the two 110-story towers did not drop into their respective footprints.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  291. Rurik says:
    @Paul C.

    One of the many faces of evil. He and his children worked in one of the Twin Towers and all were conveniently not there that day. Presumably they knew many people in those buildings. I don’t know how they can live with themselves.

    I remember watching some video about Unit 731.

    This from Wiki

    Vivisection[edit]

    Thousands of men, women, children, and infants interned at prisoner of war camps were subjected to vivisection, often without anesthesia and usually ending with the death of the victim.[20][21] Vivisections were performed on prisoners after infecting them with various diseases. Researchers performed invasive surgery on prisoners, removing organs to study the effects of disease on the human body. These were conducted while the patients were alive because it was thought that the death of the subject would affect the results.[22]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

    In any case the things they were said to have done there, are beyond monstrous.

    But I was struck by the absolute indifference to human suffering that these people displayed. They were either beasts on two legs, or intelligent but deranged well.. psychopaths. Ted Bundy with the power of the state. Salomon Morel.

    So when I heard that the PA systems of the WTC number two, were ordering everyone to return to their offices, because ‘there was no danger’, and that if people ignored these public announcements and tried to leave the building, the security prevented them, I was sort of benumbed by the sheer calculated evil of that. They were ordered to say there because they wanted maximum casualties. They were ordered to stay there so that they would die there. Silverstein must have known many of these people personally- secretaries and receptionists and janitors and so many others. But once all the Israelis were safely warned to leave, then all the remaining folks were not just doomed, but ordered to stay and die.

    When I was a young kid, they used to show me Holocaust imagery as part of my programming.

    I remember the feelings of revulsion, even at a young age. Who knew that I’d one day feel the same utter revulsion at ‘my fellow’ “human beings” as an adult.

    • Agree: Franklin Ryckaert
    • Replies: @denk
    , @NoseytheDuke
  292. Mike P says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hi Chuck,

    thanks for your comment.

    The visual “effects” of the required “amount of heat” at “ground zero” are available for even Scranton School District bus drivers to see. 🙂 A legitimate point and question?

    Well, I’m sure something happened at ground zero that involved the release of a great deal of energy. However, the exact amount of energy quoted by Iris seems very large – it is this specific number which I doubt.

    A You Tube video was/is available & which showed 9/11 emergency response workers at the “hot-hot” Ground Zero, & who were properly dressed in OSHA approved (Level C) Personal Protection Equipment.

    Right, I saw that. It rather does suggest that someone was concerned about possible radioactive contamination; but does it prove such contamination as fact? I don’t think so, but instead would want to see some actual radioactivity, for example in soil from the excavation site or in the dust samples in which thermite residue was detected. The indefatigable Architects and Engineers have looked into this issue and not found compelling evidence. I share their opinion.

    Your point about the hasty removal of the steel is well taken; like you, I believe that this was done to remove incriminating evidence. However, this evidence might equally well have been thermite residue and the characteristic traces of cutter charges.

    Ultimately, all of this is about technical detail; and regardless of the remaining open questions, we have abundant proof that the towers were exploded, that the planes were video fakes, and that everybody’s favourite and most valuable ally has their fingerprints all over this event. We thus can agree on the overall political meaning of it – which I know we do.

    Have a good day, M.

  293. @Rurik

    Patriotic, bravely, and common sense articulate, Brother Rurik conveyed this rare truth: “Because the goyim minds and their spirits and their will- all have been so systematically handicapped by generations of Jewish supremacist media programming, that the beast-like creatures they speak of in the Protocols, are what we’ve actually become.”

    👍

    • Replies: @Sean
  294. @NoseytheDuke

    Well summed up summary.

    • Agree: Rurik, ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  295. Rurik says:

    what we’ve actually become.”

    not everyone brother Chuck!

    • Replies: @tac
    , @tac
  296. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    A false flag is not a phoney method to fool the world that something that is in truth impossible has actually happened.No, a false flag is for attributing responsablity to the selected patsy. The idea of a false flag must surely be to make it all look convincingly real, or at least plausible on the face of it and it seems to me that if something obviously cannot in fact be done, trying to fake it is an extremely odd way to frame the target with having done it. Professor Plub in the liberary with a lead pipe would fly, with a banana?

    A false flag appearing to down the WTC7 by a very uncertain or imposible means would be like framing someone for a murder comitted by the doing the Indian rope trick. Those saying that planes could not have brought down the towers on 9/11 must think ithe Israeli planners intended as an insulting and macabre joke, rather than a country that was going to be scrubbed off of the face of the Earth if the American people thought Mossad was resposible.

    Sabrosky’s main argument for 9/11 being a Mossad operation is the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, because WTC7 was not hit by a plane and it collapsed, and so WTC7 must have been wired with explosives before hand and deliberately demolished. But why would Mossad false flag planners pre place demolition charges in WTC7 to bring it down when they knew was not going to be hit by a plane?

  297. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    1. U.S. authorities have failed to trace, arrest, try (prosecute), and punish anyone responsible for the crime against humanity committed on 9/11.

    They have also failed to stop people like you accusing the American government in culusion with Israel of doing 9/11.

    2. When announcing to the United Nations their decision to attack Afghanistan, U.S. authorities failed to provide evidence that the crime of 9/11 was in any way connected to Afghanistan. In fact, such evidence has still not been produced

    Youhave failed to provide evidence that Afghanistan is not a shithole of no interest to anyone as long as they mind their own business.

    3. The United States government did not authorize an investigation of the events of 9/11 that could have fulfilled minimal international standards:

    That was the mistake made with Osama bin Laden before 9/11, trying to use forensic legalism.

    If 9/11 happening the way the US government was imposible, it certainly is not impossible for them to shut you up and stop you posting all this stuff. But they don’t bother doing that.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  298. @Sean

    (Zigh) Sean asked me🤔: “But why would Mossad false flag planners pre place demolition charges in WTC7 to bring it down when they knew was not going to be hit by a plane?”

    (Zigh) Above, that is a terrific question which Mr. Mueller’s FBI crime scene investigation team might have asked Lucky Larry Silverstein or perhaps the Mossad-affiliated “dancing Israelis.” (zzzZigh)

    Uh, not me dude…, and how the hell would I know? 🙄 Besides, given I did know & along with having backup evidence, I’d be either one of those ‘mothafuckers or dead.

    • Replies: @Sean
  299. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    Empty Footprints

    Image: A Citizen for 9/11 Truth

    Where oh where are the rubble heaps from two 110-story skyscrapers that supposedly collapsed into their own footprints? We see some debris in the footprints, but not nearly enough to account for massive structures like the WTC twins.

    Photo: WTC 7, WTC 6, WTC 5, and looking across the dome of WFC 2 down into the footprint of WTC 1, where parts of two plaza-level exterior walls still stand with their signature arches, and two vertical sections of the central core are poking up, but the footprint doesn’t show much of a debris heap of any kind, all the business about the two skyscrapers collapsing into their own footprints notwithstanding. So where did all the debris from the buildings go?

    One possibility, according to FEMA:

    Most of the concrete from the WTC site was pulverized into dust in the Sept. 11 attacks. But huge amounts of structural steel remained scattered in tangled heaps, says Allen Morse, USACE chief debris expert and FEMA technical advisor.

    Somewhere in there, a footprint or two, but much of the dust must have missed it.

  300. denk says:
    @Rurik

    731…

    Worse still,
    The U.S. granted Unit 731 war criminals immunity, in exchange for the precious data from their diabolical biowarfare program.

    WJustice B.V.A Roling
    “It is a bitter experience for me to be informed now that centrally ordered Japanese war criminality of the most disgusting kind was kept secret from the court by the U.S. government. This Japanese war criminality consisted, in part, of using human beings, prisoners of war, Chinese as well as American, as “guinea pigs” in an endeavor to test the impact of specific biological warfare weapons.” (Congressional Record. Nov. 10, 1999; quoted by Christopher Reed. The U.S. and the Japanese Mengele: Payoffs and Amnesty for Unit 731 Scientists, The Asia-Pacific Journal: Japan Focus, 2006)
    ………………
    There is no dispute about the lack of interest shown by high ranking U.S. government officials; nor about their lack of concern about the victims of diabolical medical war crimes, including U.S. servicemen who had been violated in heinous biological experiments. U.S. officials were focused on concealing the evidence and shielding the criminals responsible.

    The U.S. was thus complicit in Japan’s cover-up of its worst crimes and atrocities; enabling Japan to dismiss the charges for decades. “What the US did in making the deal with top doctors is unconscionable.” (Japan’s Biowarfare Exposed, Taipei Times, March 2004)

    http://web.archive.org/web/20150915230213/http://ahrp.org/conspiracy-of-denial-complicity-of-u-s-government-in-japans-fabricated-history-decades-of-willful-national-amnesia/

    • Replies: @Mike P
  301. Robjil says:
    @Sean

    They did not care that is why they added building seven as a bonus. The perps have no empathy for humanity. They have the media totally under their control. Media is their biggest tool for their brainwashing.

    The perps, with their total control of media, knew they could get away with it. It is very sad that we do not have a free press. When we, the little people, try to speak up and look things as they really are . We are squashed and not listened too. It has gone too far.

    The Israel experiment and the US experiment should be dismantled for the sake of humanity. The nine eleven game is an unspeakable evil, it is beyond words.

    • Agree: Iris
  302. Rurik says:
    @Sean

    But why would Mossad false flag planners pre place demolition charges in WTC7 to bring it down when they knew was not going to be hit by a plane?

    because a plane crashing into a steel frame building is not enough to cause its steel structure to uniformly disintegrate, and collapse into nice pile of short lengths of steel for quick and quiet transportation out of the country to be melted down before any kind of forensic examination could be done.

    Skyscrapers (especially of the WTC design) are engineered to easily withstand the impact of a fully loaded commercial passenger jet.

    WTC7 was even more modern and well-built than the twin towers.

    The idea a plane crashing into it would cause it to implode into its basement, is an absurdity.

    Not that most laypeople aren’t gullible enough that it can’t be used as a pretext.

    If 9/11 happening the way the US government was imposible, it certainly is not impossible for them to shut you up and stop you posting all this stuff. But they don’t bother doing that.

    I wonder how many pathetic losers such as yourself have written to Mr. Unz and petitioned him to close down these conversations. No doubt appealing to his Jewishness and the need to protect certain narratives.

    I’d love to know the answer to that one. 😉

  303. denk says:

    On opportunity….

    Donald Rumsfeld
    9/11 created “the kind of opportunities that World War II offered, to refashion the world.”

    Condoleezza Rice
    “think about ‘how do you capitalize on these opportunities’ to fundamentally change American doctrine, and the shape of the world, in the wake of September 11th.”
    “if the collapse of the Soviet Union and 9/11 bookend a major shift in international politics, then this is a period not just of grave danger, but of enormous opportunity.”

    even as the poisonous smoke was still rising from the ruins of the World Trade Center in September 2001, Bush giddily declared that
    “through my tears, I see opportunity.”

    We now know exactly what he saw: the opportunity to launch the long-determined invasion of Iraq, even though he knew that his stated reasons for the war were false, as Tyler Drumheller, the CIA’s top man in Europe before the war, noted this week. Drumheller told CBS that his team had direct intelligence from Saddam’s inner circle confirming Iraq’s dearth of WMD – intelligence backed up by multiple sources — but the White House told him it didn’t matter. They had decided on war and “were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy” – the formula for falsehood revealed in the “Downing Street Memos” uncovered in 2004. Predictably, this latest smoking gun evidence of the most heinous war crime imaginable – launching a war of aggression based knowingly on a false and manufactured threat (the precise equivalent of Hitler’s invasion of Poland in 1939) – was instantly deep-sixed by the Establishment media, like all the other proofs of the Regime’s criminal perfidy that have surfaced briefly over the years.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/hideous-kinky-moral-nullity-as-normality-in-pentagon-plans/2354

  304. Mike P says:
    @denk

    There is no dispute about the lack of interest shown by high ranking U.S. government officials; nor about their lack of concern about the victims of diabolical medical war crimes, including U.S. servicemen who had been violated in heinous biological experiments. U.S. officials were focused on concealing the evidence and shielding the criminals responsible.

    The U.S. was thus complicit in Japan’s cover-up of its worst crimes and atrocities …

    There is a sequel to this story – the Americans then used the knowledge obtained from the Japanese not just on an experimental scale, but on the North Korean population – see here.

    • Replies: @denk
  305. Wade says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    Sounds to me like Ron just wants the ability to circulate interesting comments if he wants. Would probably just say “According to anonymous commenter Rev. Spooner, [your comment]..”

    Don’t worry about it. It should be more of a concern to you that one day an intelligence and/or criminal organization hacked his servers in an effort to dox commenters. Why would Ron do this though on purpose?

  306. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    I’d be either one of those ‘mothafuckers or dead

    Or both. Why would those like the fellow who owned the buildings that is being repeatedly named not fear assasination in the aftermath. Why such insoucience about their own personal safety. You are identifying individuals as mass murderers, and they live in a country where is is not dificult to get a gun.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Henry_Wilson,_1st_Baronet

    Let us say someone here has it worked out 100% right about Israel doing 9/11 in association with the buidings owner and exactly how that was accoumplished as a false flag. Even if they do not have CSI cast iron case the truth is going to convince enought people reading it for the visible part of the conspiracy to be in extreme danger. Come to think of it, what is stopping you from doing something more effective than being a brave patriotic keybord commando. OK you’re too moral. but that would not go for everyone. These people you are naming are living openly, they are essentially sitting ducks. No guilty would sit tight and alowing you to identify them as the slaughter of thousands of innocent people on 9/11, because they would expect someone to take it seriously. It would only take Fromme to Squeaky though.

    Barrett understands the aforementioned inaction by the plotters as damaging, hence his emphasis on Sabrosky being censored from saying that Israel was behind 9/11. It is not impossible that Israel intelegence service Mossad did mount a 9/11 false flag operation. I think it is very unlikely but camnot completely discount such a possibility. One thing I am absolutely certain of is that none of the people who say it is so actually believe it to be true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practical_syllogism
    Aristotle discusses the notion of the practical syllogism within his treatise on ethics, his Nicomachean Ethics. A syllogism is a three-proposition argument consisting of a major premise stating some universal truth, a minor premise stating some particular truth, and a conclusion derived from these two premises.[2] The practical syllogism is a form of practical reasoning in syllogistic form, the conclusion of which is an action. An example might be that the major premise food cures hunger and the minor premise I am hungry leads to the practical conclusion of my eating food. Note that the conclusion here is not a third proposition, like I will eat, or the occurrence of an utterance like “I will eat,” but is simply the act of eating.

    Practical reason operates in the form of a practical syllogism, whose conclusion is imperative action. Until a conspiracy theory has become more than a theoretical belief, as when someone acted on its premises, it can safely be ignored. You are “bravely” repeating but in actuality ignoring your own accusation. How can anyone take it seriously?

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @ChuckOrloski
  307. dkshaw says:
    @TKK

    4 things.
    1. You are a bigot.
    2. I like “fat chicks”.
    3. Wouldn’t you like to know why a British reporter stated bldg 7 collapsed before it did.
    4. It would be interesting to know why there was almost NO REPORTING RE: BLDG 6. (If anyone’s curiosity is piqued don’t look to me for further enlightenment. Go look it up.

  308. @Sean

    >You are “bravely” repeating but in actuality ignoring your own accusation. How can anyone take it seriously?

    Translation: In order to be “taken seriously”, we have to become the equivalent of a Breivek or Tarrant.

    So which alphabet agency do you work for?

    • Replies: @Sean
  309. @Sean

    Ko(Zigh) Sean “syllogized” to me: “. Until a conspiracy theory has become more than a theoretical belief, as when someone acted on its premises, it can safely be ignored.”

    Hey Squeaky Sean!

    Re, above😌; a question.

    Has Zelikow’s conspiracy theory, a.k.a., 9/11 Commission Report, reached the level of a “theoretical” belief? (Zigh)

    • Replies: @Sean
  310. Anonymous[119] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rurik

    Because the goyim minds and their spirits and their will- all have been so systematically handicapped by generations of Jewish supremacist media programming, that the beast-like creatures they speak of in the Protocols, are what we’ve actually become.

    The goyim are waking up and some even resisting in various ways so I wouldn’t be that harsh but you’re not wrong for the most part. Media programming is certainly a factor but let’s not forget the medical one. Western males have lost more than half of their sperm counts in the past 50 years or so. This is a proven fact and not a theory. That’s a problem on its own, but along with it, they’ve also lost their testosterone levels (both effects come from underperforming testicles).

    Interestingly enough, low T-levels produce exactly what you’re describing – docile sheep. It’s also interesting that “we” “knew” this for decades but the powers that be seem to be uninterested in saving people’s fertility and fighting spirit. Now, why would that be?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  311. Iris says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hello Mr O., and thanks for raising so many fundamental questions with regard to nine eleven.

    The official version of events is beyond the laws of physics and every engineering knowledge; it is so ridicule that is hardly worth discussing.

    Among those who recognise that the nine eleven evil crime was committed through controlled demolition, opinions differ re the execution.
    The use of nanothermite was proven by spectrometric analysis of dust samples; it is an irrefutable identification method. No explanation was ever provided as per why military grade explosives were present in the rubble of the WTC.

    However, nanothermite cannot account for the elevated and long-lasting temperatures recorded at “Ground Zero”. Firemen described “molten steel temperatures” , i.e. temperatures in the order of 1000 degree, and Rudy Giuliani stated:” They were standing on top of a cauldron. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days“.
    Below is a photo taken on Sep 27th. The temperature, indicated by steel colour chart, is over 1000 degree.

    High temperatures lasting for weeks is a giant red flag. It is impossible to sustain such production of energy in the open air, for three months, without addition of fuel.
    If that were possible, blast furnaces built to maintain elevated temperature within large volumes of space wouldn’t be necessary.

    The amount of energy (heat) released at the time of the collapse of the Towers can be approximated thanks to the evolution of the temperature of the WTC footprint, photographed by infrared thermography.
    It has been assessed by European physics academics to be in the order of a million billions J (J, for Joules, is the standard unit for energy).

    There are many different forms of energy, but there are only two that can be produced by matter:
    – Chemical energy released by chemical reactions, such as this produced by gas or petrol burning. Chemical energy involves electrons, the light particles “spinning” around an atomic nucleus. They produce energy in the order of 10 million Joules per kilogram of fuel.
    – Nuclear energy, which involves breaking the atom’s nucleus (fission) or merging it with others (fusion). Nuclear energy typically produces 100,000 million Joules per kilo of nuclear, so 10,000 times more than a similar mass of conventional fuel.

    Achieving the temperatures recorded at the WTC would have required a quantity of conventional fuel in the order of 100,000 tons. To give an idea, 100,00 tons is the estimated mass of one of the Twin Towers (NIST). So, not something sesy to hide or to bury.

    The most likely explanation for the WTC’s persistent elevated temperatures was that underground nuclear charges were used to bring down the towers. With regards.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  312. republic says:
    @Iris

    9/11 is a “miracle” which has kept engineers flabbergasted for two decades.

    9/11, the day that the laws of physics were suspended

    • Replies: @Iris
  313. Iris says:
    @republic

    The thing that wasn’t suspended by Nine Eleven was Talmudic Chutzpah.

    It was at work to spin a story after photos of the glass detonation cavities caused by the nuclear charges were leaked, and hailed the discovery of “Ice Age Pot Holes” right in the middle of where each of the Twin Towers used to stand.

    Obviously, these giant “potholes” would have been completely invisible when the Twin Towers were constructed. Yet another miracle.

    ‘There are areas in local parks that have small vertical potholes exposed,” Cheryl J. Moss, the senior geologist at Mueser Rutledge, told The New York Times.
    But I’m not aware of anything in the city with a whole, self-contained depression on this scale.”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1060043/Pictured-The-40ft-pothole-shows-Ground-Zero-site-Ice-Age-glacier.html

    • Agree: Robjil
  314. @Sparkon

    Yeah, so it did fall perfectly into its footprint. Nobody’s perfect. You think that a cowboy is a boy who is part cow?

  315. Druid says:
    @MEFOBILLS

    Very good. Usury, pornography,

  316. Sean says:
    @AnonStarter

    Breivek and Tarrant slaughtered dozens of blameless people. You and thousands of those who think like you, are accusing identified people of committting mass murder with impunity. So there would be no parallel to be made.

    I must admit though, that if killing people innocent people for no good reason is equivalent to not even trying to put under peaceful non-violent citizen’s arrest those one truely knows to be engaged in ongoing mass murderer, then you are as bad as Breivek or Tarrant. And have far less courage than Squeaky Fromme.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @AnonStarter
  317. @Iris

    Kindly, Iris said: “Hello Mr O., and thanks for raising so many fundamental questions with regard to nine eleven.”

    Dear Iris!

    Thanks, I do my best.

    Am disappointed, to date, & having named-names involved in the 9/11 criminal fraud, that commenter “Sean” hasn’t offered his appreciation to me.🤔

    Fyi, and maybe you can help me with the matter of Christopher Bollyn’s outstanding books, “Solving 9/11” and “The War on Terror, The Plot to Rule the Middle East”?

    As you likely know, Iris, & to a much greater extent, Mr. Bollyn did what I did, but, but he named many (all?) of the Israelite 9/11 perps names.🙌

    My question is this: In the 1st chapter of the book “Solving 9/11,” Mr. Bollyn shared the beginnings of his daring 9/11 research. One day, & nearby his Chicago home, a goon squad, disguised as cops, beat him up. 🤕Obviously, they did not kill Christopher, and he managed to live & publish the seminal work, “Solving 9/11.” *

    The above question was asked by me here at U.R.-comments and no one responded.
    Not trusting anything Zionists say, I am left to wonder if they just did not care one shit-bit about Bollyn’s survival, & amazing information having gone public.

    I especially posit this “radical” thought based upon Israel’s long & documented record, and their being unaccountable to any evil crime they commited against my “Homeland’s” interest. First example, JFK’s assassination and then barbaric murder at sea, the USS Liberty crew.☹️

    In fact, I intuit Rothschild heirs & their minions are in-‘Merikan-faces, and are belly laughing at how extremely “dumb” are their dumb goyim underlings.

    Answer as & if you please, Iris, and now I am calling it a day.

    So & whether you “believe” or not, God bless you, Iris! Thank you.

    * Full disclosure: As author Kevin Barrett is key staff @ Veterans Today, I find it troubling to know how much flack Christopher Bollyn gets from editor Gordon Duff. Fyi, I know (to layman extent) how Mr. Bollyn insists that nano-thermite was the major chemical used by Jews to cream the WTC towers. Mr. Duff attacks that controlled demolition method & he and Bollyn appear to be at “Hot” war.🤔 Uh, why? I’d prefer a collegial war.

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @Iris
  318. @Den Lille Abe

    Thanks but I cannot take any credit, it came from globalresearch.ca Cheers

  319. @Anonymous

    This is a case of semantics really. The buildings exploded prior to coming down in a manner that it was hoped would seem like the cause was the “planes” crashing into them. Obviously it couldn’t be as blatant as a genuine controlled demolition and the objectives were not the same as in a legitimate job. Certainly the buildings came down in a manner that contradicted both the official explanation and the laws of physics so it might be better to describe them as intentional unlawful demolitions.

  320. @Rurik

    The WTC was always a prestige project and it is the symbolism why they were chosen to be destroyed, that and the money, of course.

    • Agree: Rurik
  321. @Sean

    Save it for someone who cares about your opinion, which is not me. You are not a commenter that I respect at all nor are you one who comes here to comment in good faith.

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Anonymous
  322. @Sean

    Fawn Sean passed judgement: “And have far less courage than Squeaky Fromme.

    Hey, fucker.

    Lay off Squeaky Fromme!

    Fyi, while on pass from Fort Polk, La, A.I.T., North Fort, 1970, I had a blind date with Squeaky.

    While at a Leesville dive bar, she sweetly asked me, “Chuck, how do you like the “X” carved into my forehead by Tex Watson?”

    I swooned, replied, “It’s groovy, Squeaky, but did it hurt?”

    “Not much, but I did tell Tex that he’d be fucking dead if the cut hurt any.”

    “Oh, uh, (gulp), can you give me your telephone number?”

    “Nope, but I guess we can go on a nonstop drunk and creepy crawl around this dump neighborhood until you have to go back to Polk?”

    Of course, Fawn Sean, at that point I lost my guts, changed the subject, wickedly smiled, and asked Squeaky, “By chance, would you like to go to a bingo with me when I get another pass?”

    She grinned, cackled, “Uh, to rob the joint, Chuck?”

    • Replies: @Sean
  323. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Ko(Zigh) Sean “syllogized” to me: “. Until a conspiracy theory has become more than a theoretical belief, as when someone acted on its premises, it can safely be ignored.” … Has Zelikow’s conspiracy theory, a.k.a., 9/11 Commission Report, reached the level of a “theoretical” belief? (Zigh)

    I don’t follow you. The US Government did what followed from the conclusion of the report. Identifiable people invoved ina real 9/11 false flag plot exposed by crusading bloggers would shut down those broadcasting iincriminating information that would byacted upon. Youry breezy tone certainly does not sound like someone who think the the worlds best secret service and some of the country’s most influential policital and government operatives are out to get him.

    Unlike Squeaky (did no more than pull a single action automatic without a chambered round in Ford’s vicinityr) you have a job and one requiring a backgound check and family, which seems odd if you actually believe that the people who you talk about as being in on 9/11a are remotely as as bad and as organised as you say, because you use your full real name. And you have a family too. Tawkis cheap, naming a real person as leader of a criminal gang committing serious crimes would required real courage, as long as you had not invented the activities and the gang is a real one.
    https://themobmuseum.org/blog/blinded-by-acid/
    But if you know deep down it is not real, then tawkin about it under your own name requires less bravery than the average mouse posesses. There is a book about skin in the game and the difference between it and “tawk”. If guilty, the people and organisations you are accusing would have skin in the game and would not be able to simply ignore you and others putting their name out there for mass murder, they just wouldn’t. It is like a reverse Lindy effect, the longer the old 9/11 accusation game show has been running, the less likely it is to be any good (true).

    Who’s afraid of Alan Sabrosky? Whoever they are, they have the ability to monitor and censor YouTube live-streams in real time. And they apparently don’t want you to know what Sabrosky thinks about the Holocaust

    See how Barret works.The post is titled ‘Alan “Israel Did 9/11” Sabrosky: Most Censored Man in America’, but begins with clickbait for Barrett’s boring Holocaust theories show. Reverse Lindy effect again.

  324. Robjil says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    The perps “allow” us, little people, to talk about who were the real perps of false flags, like nine eleven, though never in MSM, Why?

    Ole Dammergard mentions the reason why. He says it is a karma thing. They think that if they give you clues that they did it. And then you don’t get it or do anything about it. Then, the bad karma is on you and not the perps.

    In other words, the victims by doing nothing to stop them, releases their bad karma to their victims. It also implies that the victims are too stupid, thus deserve their fate. Notice the IQ mania of many our “rulers” when they post on this site. It is twisted logic but it makes sense with the many good clues found at their false flag events that they did it or sloppy work at the sites.

    Good clues/ sloppy work that point out that our rulers “did it” have been found at all the false flags in this PNAC century, such as, the clean passports of the “hijackers” found at the horrific wreckage of the WTC. This little clue and many other such clues did not wake up the masses and or make them to go on the streets. The only time the masses go on the streets is when their puppet master MSM tells them to do so. The yellow vests may be an exception to this rule in the west.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  325. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    There comes a time when you have to conclude that there is a lack of approproiate attitude among you and like minded conpiracy theorists that amounts to bad faith. Why are you not scared to publically (and the internet is transparent to spies) name people as mass murderers for a powerful secret otrganisation with a long arm?

    Were you living in South Central LA you would not be naming people as triggermen for the Crips so readily as you are identifying indiviruals as in on Israel’s 9/11 false flag I’ll wager. But then, the Crips are real and extremely dangerous, while your internet activity is along the lines of a role playing game. The fact is by showing no inclination to take leave of the internet and go where things are at genuine issue, you and your little mutual admiration club demonstate that you are not for real.

  326. Anonymous[119] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Yes it’s basically semantics but that’s why Sparkon shouldn’t get agitated when people say the buildings collapsed into their own footprint. He started it ( 😛 ).

    The way I see it, WTC7 was a classic controlled demolition but the other two were non-classic. The beams were weakened to a lesser degree and offered a bit more resistance than what you’d find in a normal demolition.

    • Replies: @Sean
  327. @Sean

    Have you caught on to the fact that nobody gives two shits what you think?

  328. @Sean

    (zzZigh) Hiding in Bushes, Fawn Shawn warned NoseytheDuke & presumably me: “Were you living in South Central LA you would not be naming people as triggermen for the Crips so readily as you are identifying indiviruals as in on Israel’s 9/11 false flag I’ll wager.”

    Hey fucker, I am a Crip! Scranton Chapter.

    To others posting here, and fyi, multimillionaire Bruce Springsteen had “skin in the game” when he first performed his daring song, “American Skin,” linked below. NYPD also had “skin in the Diallo game,” they did not like the song, & set off an impressive nationwide protest against the NJ-born “Boss.” *

    (Zigh) Too bad he turned to demanding North Carolina concert venues to provide for transgender Rest Rooms?

    * Presently, ZUS city police departments get special training from Israelis.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  329. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    One of the Manson girls had years before went on a blind date with an assistant to the prosocuter at the main Manson trial. Your account elsewhere of what Squeaky did to get her 34 years was very misleading. Anyway, the point is that people who believe in theories more than the authors who make them up are not that rare. Three weeks after Squeaky, Sara Jane Moore (married five times, 4 kids), made a determined effort in which she shot right at Ford.

    Members of a 9/11 conspiracy would not be walking around waiting to be the targets of people a lot better equipped to carry out a successful asassination than Moore. The plotters would know they are guilty. Having the truth on ones side is a very powerful persuader, and the guilty people identified as such would know that a serious attempt on their life by someone who had been conviced by the internet accusations with the ring of truth was only a matter of time.

    What you would have already seen if you and your cronies were right about 9/11 Chuck, is the people you name moving heaven and earth to get the internet activity of Truthers (actually correct in this hypothetical remember) stamped out before it got off the ground. It that did not work, the people named as culprits of 9/11 would leave America out od fear. Neither of these things have happened.

  330. Sean says:
    @Anonymous

    The way I see it, WTC7 was a classic controlled demolition but the other two were non-classic. The beams were weakened to a lesser degree and offered a bit more resistance than what you’d find in a normal demolition.

    Controled demolition requires pre planning and wiring up of explosives. If WTC7 was a classic controlled demolition of a building, and the WTC towers collapses were less classic, one wonders why the building that that no plane was going to hit –which made its collapse more surprising –had tyhe most blatant controlled demolition of them all. I mean why would the have a plan to pre wire the two WTC towers for demolition to make it look like the a plane impact and fire brought them down, and then have WTC7 , which was never planned to be hit by either of the two planes, brought down in almost exactly the same way?

    They must have pre wired WTC7 too. Why? Sabrosky says that as WTC7 came down despite not being hit by a plane it was pre wired and the WTC towers must have been too because they came down almost the same way. WTC 7 presented less of a technical problem as you say, but planning, preparing and carrying out a classic controled demolition on the one building that did not get hit with a plane is contrary to the objective for having controlled demolitions in the first place as far as I can see

  331. @Robjil

    Hey Robjil!

    “Sloppy work” is a characteristic of the 9/11 snow job. Here too, as with the “dancing Israelis,” they wanted to get caught.

    Am totally with you here: “The only time the masses go on the streets is when their puppet master MSM tells them to do so.”

    I recall how my “Homeland’s” restless consumers stampeded a Walmart and killed somebody while trying to buy limited supplies of “Tickle Me Elmo” dolls.”

    Thanks a lot for all you do, Robjil!

    • Agree: Robjil
  332. Saggy says: • Website
    @Sean

    Sabrosky’s main argument for 9/11 being a Mossad operation is the collapse of 7 World Trade Center, because WTC7 was not hit by a plane and it collapsed, and so WTC7 must have been wired with explosives before hand and deliberately demolished. But why would Mossad false flag planners pre place demolition charges in WTC7 to bring it down when they knew was not going to be hit by a plane?

    Exactly right, and as I noted previously …

    #1 – The whole premise of the truthers is that the feds wired the buildings with explosives, and then used drones or Arab stooges to mask their activities by flying planes into the buildings. But, that premise is absurd because they couldn’t and didn’t fly a plane into WTC 7.

    However, you are wrong about the holohoax, see http://www.holohoax101.org

  333. Sparkon says:

    se·man·tics
    /səˈman(t)iks/
    noun
    noun: semantics; noun: logical semantics; noun: lexical semantics

    the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.

    ——————————

    Yes, words have meaning.

    Attempts to change or assign new ad hoc meanings to words entail at least two logical fallacies: equivocation and special pleading.

    Psst. “Into its footprint” can mean anything we want, and we get to keep using the term, whether it is accurate or not, because that’s what everyone is saying, and besides, we’ve got brain barnacles.

    Question: Why do some cling so resolutely to the collapsed into its own footprint meme?

    Answer: Because it tends to point away from the decisive fact that the Twin Towers did not collapse so much as they were blown apart with very powerful explosives capable of turning all that concrete to dust, responsible for ejecting heavy structural members several hundred feet laterally, and additionally causing severe damage to several neighboring properties without regard or respect for any footprint.

    Can anyone explain why photos of Ground Zero show no large rubble heaps that one might reasonably expect from the controlled demolition and subsequent collapse of a 110-story, 500,000-ton building?

    Where are the elevator cars, stairways, desks, filing cabinets, floor pans, plumbing, joists, doors, light fixtures and such in the debris fields visible in the photos? Was all that material turned to dust as well?

    Please pay close attention again to this oblique overhead photo where the view looks down across the dome atop World Financial Center 2 and into the much discussed footprint of WTC 1. A couple columns from the central core can be seen sticking up from about ground level – vertical orientation determined by trademark arches on the still standing portions of the exterior walls.

    The fact that we can peer down into WTC 1’s footprint near ground level and see part of the central core poking up argues strongly that there is no large debris heap in WTC 1’s footprint.

    So, there’s the footprint, but where are the remains of the building?

    While any interested parties ponder that question, I’ll close by noting that
    Any passion in pursuit of the truth is no vice.

  334. Rurik says:
    @Anonymous

    Western males have lost more than half of their sperm counts in the past 50 years or so. This is a proven fact and not a theory. That’s a problem on its own, but along with it, they’ve also lost their testosterone levels

    Tucker Carlson has mentioned this a few times on his show.

    I have zero doubt that it is being orchestrated.

    They promote homosexuality and denigrate normal sexual lifestyles as pathological.

    If they can reduce the American male into soy-boy catamites

    they’ll Never Again have to worry about any resistance to their supremacist agenda.

    I advocate being very careful about all corporate retail products that might come into contact with your skin or especially ingested. Don’t use any products by Procter and Gamble.

    Remember the recent Gillette commercial, just to keep in mind (((their))) relentless, eternal agenda.

  335. Look what ((they)) did to Victor Thorn for his research and publications: The Holocaust Hoax Exposed; Made in Israel – 9/11; Pulling the Trigger; etc.

  336. @Sean

    As relentless work of a Junior Grand U.R.-Obfuscator, a dozen notches below the stature of Grand Obfuscator InZitatus, (zzZigh), Fawn Sean asked: “I mean why would the have a plan to pre wire the two WTC towers for demolition to make it look like the a plane impact and fire brought them down, and then have WTC7 , which was never planned to be hit by either of the two planes, brought down in almost exactly the same way?”

    Ha-ha-ha! Where is InZitatus when the South Manhattan Grand Jury assembly for the Architects & Engineer lawsuit needs him most?

    (Zigh)

    The best Zio-approved way to determine an evidence-based answer to Fawn Shawn’s inarticulate obfuscation, quoted above, is by implementation of some good ole time “waterboarding” interrogation of the demolished WTC tower owner, Lucky Larry Silverstein.

    His building project team had to have access to WTC, knowledge of contractor👷 comings & goings, including a detailed “log” record which might still be in existence & listing cintractor assigned tasks.

    A dumb goyim, for example like me, is prompted to figure that Lucky Larry’s building insurance company adjuster🕵️would have insisted to see such logs before doling out claim awards to him and worth multi $millions.

    Nonetheless, maybe Silverstein’s insurance company was special, and his agent was barred from asking too many relevant and routine “nuts & bolts” questions? 🙄

    But, hee-hee, a reasonable GWOT-related question:
    Would the barbaric Dubya administration lawyer, & now esteemed Professor John Yoo, support results-focused
    t-Rump (MAGA) administration torture action inflicted upon his friend & 9/11 “un-sub,” Lucky Larry, and of course implemented now by the experienced CIA Director, Gina Haspel? 🙄 (Zigh) For the helluva it, I’d really love to ask such question to the Capitol Police-tackled & bruised Ray McGovern!

    Fyi, to obtain a Zionist-required confession, the captured 9/11 “Mastermind,” KSM, was er, legally😈waterboarded many times at Camp X-Ray. Afterward, & with Corporate Media hyped “Homeland” security concerns, PreZident Obama balked at an opportunity to try KSM in a “Homeland” city venue. (Zigh)

    Selah, Wisdom be attentive, and a reading from The Book of Prophet Fawn Sean, “They must have pre wired WTC7 too.”🙌

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @Incitatus
  337. Cesca says:
    @Cesca

    Didn’t imply it followed on Twodees P, offered a very viable theory. The powerful Zionists are Corporate scum, secular totally, not Jewish, they’re just PART of the elite that wants to take over.

    Israel isn’t the reason for the wars of the 21st C, Afghanistan was just an excuse for the inside job of 9/11, Iraq, Bushbaby’s Daddy but mainly Saddam wanted to trade oil in Euros for Iraq, Gadaffi in gold, Syria cos of the scum wanting to introduce a US useful interest gas pipeline etc. Blame the Zionists all u want, they are part of the hell the elite wants to unleash, only part tho.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  338. Cesca says:
    @Cesca

    Making us think Zionists are the enemy is just a distraction in my book, Israel is a ME stooge and the Israel Govt barks at their will. Giving cover for what’s truly happening, pls watch this vid to understand how ordinary Israelis are indoctrinated from when they’re tots: Defamation (english)

  339. denk says:
    @Mike P

    The US built its bio-war program from that sordid deal with the Unit731 monsters.
    US had no qualm using bio weapon on the Koreans../Chinese civilians.
    The only complain from the US high command was,….it wasnt’ lethal enough, the kill rate was too low ! [1]

    Same On the Jp side,
    No punishment, no remorse.

    The reason jp was left alone to rebuild its shattered country into a first world economy is simple, to be used as uncle sham’s pit bull in Asia .

    They figure its that time now.
    On Washington’s instigation, jp has thrown out its constitutional constraint on re-militarisation, armed to the teeth, itching to relive the glorious jp imperial army’s day of ww2.

    A in your face taunt to the Chinese,

    but you wouldnt know this reading the western media,
    its all about oh so defenceless jp desperately needing uncle sham’s protection against the big bad dragon
    Er, FOR ITS part, the jp are required to buy more weapons from US to strengthen its own defense.

    [1]
    https://www.telesurenglish.net/opinion/Expert-Exposes-US-Biological-Warfare-During-Korean-War-20171005-0006.html

  340. Saggy says: • Website
    @ChuckOrloski

    The best Zio-approved way to determine an evidence-based answer to Fawn Shawn’s inarticulate obfuscation, quoted

    Why are you writing such idiotic drivel? Seriously.

    That ‘inarticulate obfuscation’ is a perfectly clear demonstration of the absurdity of the truthers claims.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  341. @Sean

    Yo Fawn Sean!

    Am now preempting a possible reasoned & earned response comment from you.

    Regarding the existence of WTC building logs of contractor “comings & goings,” no doubt the hard copy records were blown up, unavailable.

    Nonetheless, am convinced that the Tower’s building engineer staff would have in their possession, at minimum, both verbal & electronic records of contractor “coming & goings,” and perhaps invoices for what work was done.

    Were TV’s “Columbo” the insurance investigator assigned to evaluate Lucky Larry’s huge $ insurance claim due to the Tower’s weird controlled-demolition, he’d strive to make determination as to who🤔 had access to work in the skyscrapers, including a time frame way prior to their profitable elimination.
    In short, FIND WHO OWNED THE SKYSCRAPERS AND WHO HAD ACCESS TO THEIR INTERIOR INFRASTRUCTURE!
    Doubtless, Detective Columbo would make that his 1st priority order of business. And typically, sound serial murder arrests would follow.

    Fyi, Little Fawn, in American history, there are probably thousands of homeowner claims involving cases where insurance companies were told the dwellings were struck by fire, and it turned out to be proved that the house was hit by “Jewish Lightning.” 🙄

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Sean
  342. denk says:

    They said Reagan was a teflon prez….nuthin sticks.

    YOu can say the same about all 45 potus, nuthin sticks.
    You can say the same about the gawd damned USA,
    nuthin sticks.

    How did they get away with it not once, not twice, but hundreds of times ???

    Having the criminals themselves double up as investigators surely helps !

    So you see the debris on 911 ground zero shipped out to China, Korea pronto.

    Ditto the debris on the Bali bombing, which was dumped far out on sea. , before anybody except the
    Aussies, FBI , CIA, had a chance to sniff at it. !

    What happens to mh370 ?
    The CIA, FBI have been on the case since 2014,
    Im not holding my breath for it !

    Tip of an iceberg.

    Criminals investigating its own crimes,
    Stuffs like this can only happen in the rule based 5liars domain,
    hehehhehe

  343. Incitatus says:
    @Sean

    “There comes a time when you have to conclude that there is a lack of approproiate attitude among you and like minded conpiracy theorists that amounts to bad faith… you [NoseytheDuke] and your little mutual admiration club demonstate that you are not for real.”

    Good observation. Nosey insists 99.65% professionals [architects and engineers] haven’t signed the ae911truth petition due to “intimidation by The usual Enemies of Free Speech”. He can’t name any of them. He smears any/all who fail his conspiracy purity test. A cloudy day is a deep-state plot in his passive-aggressive universe.

    Why? Nosey’s a walk-on-water Robespierre:

    “I think that job one is to reach a tipping point of awareness and understanding among the sheeple, that this needs to be investigated openly and treated as the greatest challenge to America’s survival until the traitors within are rooted out and strung up, publicly.”

    “Sheeple” and lynching? Messianic condescension and a thirst for blood. Justice? Reach for a rope!

    Nosey is unthinkingly loyal to the like-minded. FB, for example. A ‘Russian aeronautical engineer’ working for NASA obsessed with ‘wind’ who couldn’t produce engineering credentials. FB insisted structural steel could survive fires concrete couldn’t, failed to explain why structural steel requires applied fireproofing. Nosey, hopelessly in love, climbed right into FB’s lap:

    “I couldn’t say if FB’s comments have basic errors or not but I do think he has a gift for explaining complex information in layman terms.”

    Translation: ‘FB may spout nonsense (I’m too stupid to know), but it’s what I like to hear’.

    What’s Nosey’s expertise?

    Tradesman daddy [a jewelry salesman] owned “Bentleys, but only one at a time”.

    Sadly, daddy appears not to have endowed Nosey with similar intelligence or means.

    Then again, Kardashians love Bentleys and they’re not very intelligent. Maybe the acorn falls not far from the tree?

    Make no mistake. Nosey’s a true crusader:

    “America really does need another war, one against those who actually do represent a very real threat. A war against those who had the audacity to kill a president and the means to cover it up. A war against those behind the September 11 attacks and those who pushed for the ruinous wars that have followed.
    The war I refer to would not be too difficult since the names of many of the enemy are already known and they can be easily located…”

    1 Feb 2019
    http://www.unz.com/pbuchanan/trump-vs-the-spy-chiefs-whos-right/#comment-2793924

    Brave altruism. He’s Brit-twitt on his third country:

    “That said, I am thankful every single day that despite having a US green card I decided to return to live in the land of wonder down under.”
    -12nov2018

    “I am legally an Aussie and choose to live in Australia but am never mistaken to be one.”
    -22aug2018

    Now he’s busy trying to serve New Zealand the same conspiracy/deep-state/hang-them-all agenda. Curtesy of his you-tube graduate degree.

    “Bad faith”? You got him dead to rights.

    Beware the like-minded cavalcade of tiny minds. Chuckles, sloppy-seconds ‘Polish Falcon’ clean-up artist. Loves Nazis. Mighty BM’s still working on explaining his “involuntary assisted suicide” (whatever that is) defense of Hitler’s Aktion-T4 murder spree.

    Nosey? Americans are glad you’re “in the land of wonder down under”. Please stay there.

  344. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    “Grand Obfuscator InZitatus”

    Chuckles, you’re getting much too excited. Hasn’t your doctor warned you?

    Take a break. Calm down.

    Deep breath in, deep breath out.

    Please relax (it’s all we think about). Consider:

    Q: How did the Germans conquer Poland so fast?
    A: They marched in backwards and the Polish thought they were leaving.

    Q: How do you stop a Polish army on horseback?
    A: Turn off the carousel.

    Feel better? Hope so!

    No need to thank me!

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  345. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    “Hey fucker, I am a Crip! Scranton Chapter.”

    Ah, such language Chuckles!

    Please calm down. Think nice thoughts. There must be a few left in Scranton (?).

    Take a deep breath. Consider levity:

    Q: Why do Polish dogs have flat noses?
    A: From chasing parked cars.

    No need to thank me!

  346. @Saggy

    Saggy said: “Why are you writing such idiotic drivel? Seriously.”

    (zzZigh)

    Hey Waggy Saggy of Sean the Fawn’s doe tail! (Zigh)

    Above, I often write here at Unz Review in order to help other commenters comprehend the fact that:

    1. Traitors, like you for one stinky sulphur👿example, strive to perpetuate international Jewry’s control over American minds and national resources including independence from Israel.

    2. Am a member of Scranton’s St. Joseph’s Melkite Church, fyi, all parishioners are called to expose the current evil abominations as originating &perpetuated by the “Synagogue of Satan.”
    A. To love one’s neighbor includes action designed to raise human awareness to “evildoers” who dress in Good Shepherd clothing.😟 For one excellent example, America’s Zionist-Christian Vice President, Mike Pence who cheerleads for a t-Rump war upon Iran.

    Nonetheless, thanks for asking, fucker.

    • Replies: @Saggy
  347. @Incitatus

    InZitatus praised the lightweight loudmouth, Fawn Sean: “Good observation. Nosey insists 99.65% professionals [architects and engineers] haven’t signed the ae911truth petition due to “intimidation by The usual Enemies of Free Speech”. He can’t name any of them.”

    Hey, fucker!

    Why pick on NoseytheDuke to “name names” appearing on the A&E 9/11 reinvestigation lawsuit? (zzZigh) S

    As U.R.’s Grand Obfuscator, you know the names are likely available to the southern Manhattan judge, and they will become collective plaintiff when-and-if a Grand Jury hearing is assembled, a date set.

    Important point here is that I know who & what you are — a phoney Southern man.🇮🇱

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  348. Sean says:
    @Incitatus

    https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/43/3/514/2997408
    Results revealed disorder-specific patterns of TD, in which schizophrenia was characterized by “fluid thinking, interpenetrations of one idea by another, unstable verbal referents, and overly concise and contracted communications ”… Conversely, manic thought processes were described as “loosely tied together ideas that are excessively and immoderately combined and elaborated” with “a playful, mirthful, and breezy quality to their productions”63

    I suppose it is possible that to see through to the total correctness in the Israel did 9/11 conspiracy theory one needs to be a bit schizy and the reason they they Israel theory Truthers sound like they’re not really serious is because that is the just way they talk all the time. The Israel conspiracy theory is not flying saucer stuff it is in the realm of the possible.

    Yet, they are accusing identified people of mass murder it and saying those named individuals are part of a huge ruthless organistation shutting up Truthers, one would expect Truthers to be a bit more concerned about doing someing about the conspirators in the US who are not beyound the reach of anyone with a little determination. Their suspects living in the US and public figures could not, if guilty, let those accusations be made over and over again unless they wanted to be assasinated. Those aspects are what weighs heavily with me, not the technical stuff.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
    , @NoseytheDuke
  349. @Incitatus

    InZitatus The Builder reflected, asked me: “Chuckles, you’re getting much too excited. Hasn’t your doctor warned you?”

    Not nearly as excited as you got while talking French to the Maven, Sam Shama.😌

    Excuse me but my previous comment, # 358, failed to post a post scriptum where I advised you to seek the knowledgeable engineer, U.R. commenter “FB,” who might help you to learn the names of all engineers who did not sign the A&E 9/11 lawsuit.

    No need to thank me, InZit! I only ask that you update your jokes.🖕

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  350. Saggy says: • Website
    @ChuckOrloski

    Nonetheless, thanks for asking, fucker.

    I figured you were the real CO (Uncommon Thought). Now I think I must be mistaken.

    In any case …. My thing is the holohoax, I’m new to the 9/11 debate as I never gave any credence to the truthers because of their many preposterous claims.

    But now, with little to do, I thought I’d join in mainly to disassociate the idiotic truthers from the holocaust deniers, as they are now dragging down CODOH.

    And, in less than a week, I’ve quickly come to the conclusion that the truthers are, or at least give every indication of being, brain dead.

    The two planes for three towers argument destroys the truthers’ position right out of the gate, and shows that is more than wrong or lacking evidence, it is preposterous, absurd.

    Which is why the truthers here, as on CODOH, respond with sheer idiocy, as you have done.

    Are you the Uncommon Thought CO? If so, please, get a brain. If, as I suspect, not, then … nevermind.

  351. Sean says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    I understand the motive to destroy WTC7 from the point of view of the owner. I still don’t understand the reason why Mossad ect would go to all this trouble to fake a plane causing the collapse of a tthe towers. And then, hours after all this effort to put the blame for the deaths and destruction on Arab hijackers, the plotters demolish WTC7 to fake a building collapsing without being hit by a plane!

    Fyi, Little Fawn, in American history, there are probably thousands of homeowner claims involving cases where insurance companies were told the dwellings were struck by fire, and it turned out to be proved that the house was hit by “Jewish Lightning.” 🙄

    One does not get any pay out from insurance company unless they are satisfied the claim is above board. There are insurance investigators and the companies have it in their contracts that they don’t have to pay out on a suspect claim, and so you can torch your property, evade prosecution, and still end up with nothing. From time to time I have heard about business owners who said they were ruined by a fire because they did not have insurance, but its likely they did have a policy but were simply refused a pay out because the insurance companies investigators thought it was a fradualent claim.

    From the false flag and/or insurance point of view, it made no sense to bring down WTC7, especially as the construction of WTC7 above a substation was something that the Port Authority and Con Edison required a lot of convincing by the owner. That building coming down drew unwanted attention to the very unusual constuction and how he got permission for it.

    And like insurance investigators, grieving relatives do not need to prove anything. Anyone rausing suspicion by bringing down WTC 7 for the money despite it not being hit by a plane could not count on getting anything (and the American government actually froze all insurance and legal claims, in the aftermath). The investment in the rebuilding came in part from specially issued Liberty Bonds. The WTC owner could easily have been ruined by 9/11 or at least ended up with his net worth greatly reduced.

    As already mentioned, in addition to risking his fortune he would not live to spend his gains if foolish enough to remain in the US. Someone who actually did what you are suggesting would be assasinated, either by Mossad because dead men tall no tales or when someone took the law into their own hands after being convinced by the evidence that the owner was a mass murderer. The truth has special force and someone would click that was detrmined enough. This would be an insane risk to his busieness and life; we are talking about an aged billionaire not a pawnshop robber with clown face tattoos, dawg.

  352. Sean says:
    @Saggy

    The two planes for three towers argument destroys the truthers’ position right out of the gate, and shows that is more than wrong or lacking evidence, it is preposterous, absurd.

    To think that WTC7 was brought down by people trying to covince everyone that the other two collapsed because they were hit by planes?

  353. Robjil says:
    @Saggy

    Realists is a better term.

    PNAC wanted a new Pearl Harbor.

    “Pearl Harbor” blockbuster film was playing at the theaters in the summer of 2001. Getting the public ready for the big event.

    Silverstein bought the towers a few weeks before 9/11/01.
    Silverstein collects 4 billion for a 124 million investment.
    Gee, us little people have to fight with our insurance companies for the our little houses. Where do these insurance companies get billions for Silverstein?

    Dancing Israelis were celebrating and filming as the towers were going down. The lack of empathy by these characters is a crime itself.

    Hugo Neu, Israeli owned company, sold the scrap metal of the towers to China and other Asian countries. Why wasn’t the evidence of the worst crime on US soil studied? For that alone, our “free” press (like we really have one) should have gone crazy about. Yet, silence by our “free press” about that?

    Michael Chertoff, an Israeli national, was head of the FBI investigation of “evidence” and the collection of evidence. Obviously, he did none of that. He sent it to Hugo Neu to be destroyed.

    It was a false flag for the US to fight wars for Israel. The proof is right in front of our faces. It is what it is.

    • Replies: @Saggy
  354. @Saggy

    Mindlessly, Saggy said: “I’m new to the 9/11 debate…” and unscientifically opined, “And, in less than a week, I’ve quickly come to the conclusion that the truthers are, or at least give every indication of being, brain dead.”

    (zzzZigh) Re, above; Am not impressed, especially as Zionists 🇮🇱 are pushing the name “truthers” like dope upon the dumb goyim, instead of using what really is a patriotic noun, “9/11 Gospel,” which represents a principled assembly of on-site witnesses, scientists, physicists, architects & engineers, crime investigators, authors, street-smart Average Joes, and a veteran US Marine, for example, Alan Sabrosky.🙌

    (Zigh) Saggy, do you need any evidentiary help in order to confirm that I am the guy who appeared at The Uncommon Thought Journal?

    If asking me (again) ain’t your thing, M.O., suggest you spend a week contacting your local ADL chapter to find out. They will get back. (zzzZigh)

  355. Incitatus says:
    @Sean

    Can’t speak for Truthers. Some bleat ‘deep-state’, others the ‘new-world-order’, still others the ‘Mossad-Israel-Jews-the Fed’.

    Paranoia, outlandish fantasy? Fortified by you-tube and web-cut-and-paste nonsense? Who knows?

    In many seems a love/hate thing. They love the opportunity to hate.

    Hate, needless to say, extended to all who disagree.

    Technical stuff? Not to worry. They don’t have a clue about construction or demolition.

    They simply have faith GWB pulled-off 9/11 – the most diabolical inside-job in history – without one insider leak in eighteen years. They can’t explain how/why the same ‘good job brownie’ master villain let Katrina happen, or so visibly came up short of WMDs in Iraq.

    They don’t want answers. They want arguments. Year after year after year the same arguments. Makes them feel important.

    Spiders like venomous Nosey weave webs to catch prey. Passive-aggressive delight.

    Others, like Chuckles, come along for the ride.

  356. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    [You should use blockquotes rather than bold italics on quotations. Too much bolding may get comments trashed.]

    “Hey, fucker! Why pick on NoseytheDuke to “name names” appearing on the A&E 9/11 reinvestigation lawsuit? (zzZigh) S”

    Didn’t pick him. He picked me. Read #252.

    “Important point here is that I know who & what you are — a phoney Southern man.”

    Really? What does that mean Chuckles?

    Wait, I’d rather not know.

    “I only ask that you update your jokes.”

    Q: Who wears a forest ranger’s hat and carries a can of kerosene?
    A: Stanislaus the Fire Prevention Bear of the Polish National Forest Service.

  357. Iris says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hello Mr O.;
    Thanks ever so much for bringing Christopher Bollyn’s writings to the readers’ attention, they are very interesting indeed.

    Mr Bollyn’s view that nano-thermite was used to perpetrate the Nine Eleven crime is amply supported by a scientific article published in 2009. The analysis of dust samples, collected by different eye-witnesses in the immediate aftermath of the towers’ collapse proved the presence of nano-thermite.

    Nano-thermite is a military-grade explosive that was still being developed at experimental stage in April 2000. So not something any “secondary” country can get hold of. Publication is below.

    http://www.bollyn.com/public/Active_Thermite_at_WTC.pdf

    – The use of nano-thermite and other chemical explosives was firstly necessary to simulate the alleged plane attacks. The reality of “planes” is a much debated topic, but one that grossly violates material sciences.
    The WTC structure was that of a tube within a tube, with both the internal and external structure laterally supporting the floors. The external facades were sturdy structural steel. A plane made of aluminium, a very soft metal, cannot dive entirely and disappear into a steel structure. This defies everything we know about metals’ scale of hardness: it cannot have happened, no planes hit the Twin Towers.

    Also, nano-thermites have a remarkable “quality”: they possess the feature of “impulse management” and can be tailored to produce a controlled level of noise. Perfect to conceal an explosion.

    The nano-thermite hypothesis is realistic and supported with material facts, but does not explain other physical phenomena: the pulverisation of large quantities of matter (sign of an excessively powerful shockwave), the elevated and persistent temperatures, the vitrified rocks found in the foundation, the damage occurred to the underground “Bath Tub” structure, the time lapse between the “seismic” wave captured on videos and the subsequent collapse of a tower.

    There was more than just nano-thermite involved; there were nuclear charges in the basements of WTC1, WTC2 and WTC7.

    This thesis was first brought up online by a Russian former military (Khalezov), and was further made public by German magazine Nexus and popular French websites. In Europe, it is publicly endorsed by Physics academics with impeccable credentials.

    I don’t know much about “Veterans Today”, who endorse the “nuclear demolition” thesis too. May be you should ask the author of this article, dear Mr O.? With kind regards.

    P.S: You have a great taste and insight; the David Lifton book you recommended was a revelation in many ways.

  358. Robjil says:
    @Saggy

    I guess the Big Six is OK to question since Nuland joined the club. She set up the US coup in Ukraine with neo-nazis. So it figures more and more people are questioning the Big Six since Nuland joined the club.

    I remember as a kid, this was before the fall of Berlin wall, when kids mentioned their nationalities in class. Jewish classmates would squirm when some one said they were Ukrainian or Hungarian. A lot Ukrainian ancestry people said they were Polish, when Jewish people questioned their ancestry to stop the squirm on the faces of Jewish people.

    This squirm from Jewish classmates was because they thought that there were Ukrainian guards at many of the camps and that there was many shootings of Jews in Ukraine. Yet, now everything is OK with neo-nazis in Ukraine? Strange world we live in. Suddenly, now neo-nazis in Ukraine are not so horrible for the Jewish people. Makes one wonder, what really happened in WWII after all?

    I notice that many our “rulers” like to make fun of Poles too. Yet, the Poles created the Ashkenazis. The Polish kings invited them in Poland a thousand years ago. 25000 Jews came from Western Europe, ex-Roman empire areas, and settled in Poland. This small group had a very good time in Poland for centuries and grew to many millions. Descendants of Ashkenazis from Poland are now all over the world. Ashkenazis should give great honor to Poland, and not make fun of their creators.

    Is nine eleven the new taboo subject? The taboo about who really did it.

  359. Anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @Saggy

    The two planes for three towers argument destroys the truthers’ position right out of the gate

    It does no such thing. You’re basically arguing that the official story must be true because one of its components is too obvious in its fakery. It’s a “they couldn’t have been this brazen/stupid” defence.

    Meanwhile, most other components fall into that same category – undefended skies, no prosecutions, failing laws of physics, destruction of evidence etc.

  360. Narcissist, InZitatus The Builder, bragged: “Technical stuff? Not to worry. They don’t have a clue about construction or demolition.”

    You’re fortunate no commenters here recall how the engineer, “‘FB,” took you to the woodshed on the topic of 9/11 and in particular, the principles of “heat transfer.”

    Ha-ha-ha. Suppose your head is swelled while building up Sean’s “outlandish fantasies.”

    As stated several times prior to now, I know what you are, The Southern 🇮🇱 Man. (zzzZigh)

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Incitatus
  361. Saggy says: • Website

    The person who wrote this …

    I assert that the unleashing of such devastation is probably the single most important event in the short life of the U.S.

    appears to me to have a brain. It’s not something you hear often. I’ve made that argument myself …. https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-disasters-worse-than-the-Holocaust

    But your posting on this site appears to me brainless. Sean and I have given an argument that destroys the truthers’ version of events, that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition, without even looking at the videos or any other evidence.

    The argument – it is preposterous to believe that the 911 plotters would wire three buildings for demolition, and then fly planes into two of them to cover the fact that the buildings were wired for demolition.

    The truthers’ version of events is preposterous on its face.

    Or if you prefer, the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth’s version of events is preposterous on its face.

    Now, can you address that single argument, or will you resort to insult and irrelevance? I’ve been making this argument for a week and it has not been acknowledged much less answered. Instead the response has been boilerplate and/or idiocy.

    That is my evidence that the truthers are brain dead. Prove me wrong. Or get off this idiocy !

  362. @Iris

    Narcissist, InZitatus The Builder, bragged: “Technical stuff? Not to worry. They don’t have a clue about construction or demolition.”

    You’re fortunate no commenters here recall how the engineer, “‘FB,” took you to the woodshed on the topic of 9/11 and in particular, the principles of “heat transfer.”

    Ha-ha-ha. Suppose your head is swelled while building up Sean’s “outlandish fantasies.”

    As stated several times prior to now, I know what you are, The Southern 🇮🇱 Man. (zzzZigh)

  363. @Sean

    Please. Far from being white elephants the WTC towers were in a prime location making it a goldmine whatever the condition of the property

    .
    Yet it’s the location of the WTC1 and WTC2 in the area between West, Vesey, Church
    and Liberty Streets that made them truly priceless, but only after being turned into a pile
    of rubble precisely on 9.11.2001,Tuesday.
    Which explains, otherwise irrational, desire to deal with such complexity for a crazy,
    with practically zero chances to succeed, suicidal attack, or, for that matter, an imitation
    of such attack, even with much higher chances to succeed.
    A few cars/trucks with explosives here and there in Manhattan would’ve had more than
    sufficient effect for either reason. Which means there was something well beyond
    conventional reasoning.
    Only not in the minds of those who you label here as “mental”, “schizo”, etc., but in the
    minds of the real psychopaths, with the real “cognitive slippage”, based on possession
    of certain knowledge, that, they believe, makes them very special…
    And it sure does, in perfect accordance with how and for what they use it.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke, Rurik
  364. Iris says:

    “Is nine eleven the new taboo subject? The taboo about who really did it.”

    Nine Eleven is one of the most abject crimes against humanity to have ever been committed.

    All the physical evidence points at the utilisation of nuclear weapons, in a densely populated area, against the country’s own population, during peacetime. Such depravation is unprecedented in History.

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  365. @Incitatus

    Thanks for re-posting excerpts from my previous comments, I’m proud to stand by them still. Were anyone to bother re-posting the highlights of your own comments we’d be treated to little more than a selection of some weak, third rate Polish jokes, relentless snide and bitchy “humour” that only an old queen such as yourself would produce and a great many all too blatant attempts to obfuscate issues that real patriots seek to discuss on this fine forum.

    As Sparkon wisely stated, Any passion in pursuit of the truth is no vice.

    As for FB, I would place the value of any one of dozens of his informed and well-written comments to be well above the entirety of your own so your attempt to demean is just more waffle from the Queen of disingenuous wafflers.

    The best part of you commenting here though is that while you’re tapping out your little bitchisms at length at least you aren’t out in the public playgrounds menacing little boys

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Incitatus
  366. Saggy says: • Website
    @Robjil

    PNAC wanted a new Pearl Harbor.

    Sabrosky (I think) makes the point that a typical Arab terrorist operation consists of strapping on some bombs and wandering into a crowd of people, whereas the 9/11 event was an operational and organizational masterpiece, as foreign to the Arab terrorists as firmament to fin. I agree. But that is not evidence.

    A cynic like myself could believe that the function of the A&E for 9/11 Truth is to focus all attention on the preposterous claim that the towers where wired for demolition, and to divert any attention from a serious investigation of who actually plotted and carried out the caper.

    It also diverts attention from the fact that the US had been bombing the ME continuously for 10 years prior to 9/11 and hence even if the Arabs did manage to pull it of it was purely a retaliatory and defensive measure.

    • Replies: @Iris
  367. @Iris

    Dear Iris,

    Except for the U.R. commenter, L.K, who takes “gloves off” when discussing the 9/11 False Flag event, you are the first person who braved to share detail on Christopher Bollyn’s work. And if course, he “named” key Israeli-affiliated perpetrator names.

    Had a percentage of hope for Mr. Kevin Barrett’s offering a comment on the peculiar Christopher Bollyn vs. (VT editor) Gordon Duff feud, but K.B. might be away on business.

    Maybe we’ll get a Rosetta Stone code-bonus though, Iris? Because at present, InZitatus The Builder & ideological blind, Sean, just might contribute some of their cheap & uptown Tribe thought. 🙄

    Thank you very much, and my love & respect!

  368. @Sean

    Save your pseudo-psycho babble ramblings for the Dr Phil Show. Perhaps you and IDI the disingenuous old queen could appear on the show together and explain to that mass audience exactly how you “birds of a feather” have figured everything out. Dr Phil might even learn from you. Go for it! http://www.drphil.com

    • Replies: @Sean
  369. @Saggy

    Or if you prefer, the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth’s version of events is preposterous on its face.

    Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth make no assertions of any version of events as you falsely claim. They simply use the laws of Newtonian physics to refute the official narrative and call for an new, open and independent investigation. It would appear from your comment that your zealotry to a cause has blinded you from seeing reason.

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.”
    Leo Tolstoy

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski, Iris
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Saggy
  370. Rurik says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    The Southern Man

    Hey!

    I’m the Southern Man.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @Hercule Poirot
  371. Iris says:

    Great song. Best.

  372. Anonymous[325] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    The quote doesn’t work. Saggy doesn’t really believe his own narratives and he’s not intelligent.

  373. @Iris

    Dear Iris!

    You are aware of the classic Bible film, “The Greatest Story Ever Told.”

    Well, international Jewry & ZUS Neoconservatives aspire to make sure that the 9/11 “depraved” crime against humanity will continue to be cast as, “The Greatest Story Never Told.”

    Thanks forever, Iris!

    • Agree: Robjil
  374. @Rurik

    You are El Superbo, Sir!

    Nice work.

  375. @Sparkon

    Obviously fake.

    What’s the source?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  376. Iris says:
    @Saggy

    In a short comment of only 9 lines, you shot on everybody, left, right and centre: the “stupid Arab terrorists”, the 9/11 Truth movement, the mysterious and unnamed perpetrators, the US…

    Everybody is named and shamed, expect the “greatest democracy in the ME”. Coincidence?

  377. @NoseytheDuke

    Ha-ha-ha! Cool!
    NoseytheDuke told InZitatus the Builder: “Were anyone to bother re-posting the highlights of your own comments we’d be treated to little more than a selection of some weak, third rate Polish jokes,”

    Hey NoseytheDuke!

    I just made up a Polish joke which, below, I will share with you.

    Q. How did ‘Dolph manage to persuade the Pope to become partners with him on The Final Solution?

    A. Hitler threatened to make a Jewish homeland in Vatican City.

  378. Olorin says:
    @Iris

    The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse was due to the aero-elastic flutter caused by high-speed winds matching the natural frequency of the structure.

    The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse was due to WA state engineer Clark Eldridge’s original plan–with stiffening trusses–being cheapened up (by some 40%) by NYC bridge consultant Leon Moisieff, who resisted all of Eldridge’s concern about wind resonance effects, under a federal public works (FDR) contract.

    On June 23, 1938 the Public Works Administration granted funds for the first Tacoma Narrows Bridge. It marked the culmination of over 14 years of community efforts.

    The full story behind this event is not well known. Federal authorities had been skeptical for several years about whether tolls on a Narrows span could generate enough revenue to repay a loan. But, now eastern engineers entered the picture.

    According to Clark Eldridge, “eastern consulting engineers” went to the PWA and RFC and said that the bridge could be built for much less than the $11 million Eldridge’s design would cost. By “eastern consulting engineers,” Eldridge meant the noted and nationally prominent New York bridge engineer Leon Moisseiff. The message fell on willing ears.

    Federal authorities made the award, but the money was less, only $6.4 million. And, it came with strings attached. They required the State Toll Bridge Authority to hire outside consultants for the bridge design. Those outside consultants, Clark Eldridge later claimed, were mandated by the Public Works Administration. He put it in simple words. “We were told we couldn’t have the necessary money without using plans furnished by an eastern firm of engineers, chosen by the money lenders.”

    The State Toll Bridge Authority reluctantly agreed. Leon Moisseiff of New York became the consultant hired to design the superstructure (towers, cables, etc.). The firm of Moran & Proctor of New York became the consultants hired to design the substructure (piers).

    When Moisseiff’s design arrived at the Washington State Highway Department in Olympia, the agency’s engineers protested. The state’s experts called Moisseiff’s plan “fundamentally unsound.” The design made the Narrows Bridge lighter and narrower than any bridge ever built, they said, “in the interests of economy and cheapness.”

    Nevertheless, the project went forward. On September 27 the state opened construction bids. The Pacific Bridge Company submitted the low bid for building the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in the amount of $5,594,730. The associate contractor for supplying steel was the Bethlehem Steel Company. John A. Roebling Sons Company of New York supplied the wire. The design consultants, Moisseiff’s firm and Moran & Proctor, divided the standard architect fee of 2-1/2 percent of the construction cost, amounting to $139,868.

    …Even in a light breeze, the Narrows Bridge moved. Suspension bridges are supposed to move. But, this was different.

    The roadway sometimes “bounced” or “rippled” in a wind of 3 or 4 miles per hour. Often, several waves of 2 to 3 feet (and on a few occasions up to 5 feet) would move from one end of the center span the other. There seemed to be no correlation between the wind speed and the size of the waves. Sometimes the span would “bounce” for a few moments then stop. Other times, the waves lasted for 6 or even 8 hours.

    Thrill-seekers drove to the Narrows from miles around when the ripples started. Some motorists became “seasick” and avoided using the bridge. But, for adventurous spirits the bridge became an amusement ride. Drivers crossing the span at times saw a car in front of them suddenly disappear into the trough of a wave. Moments later it reappeared as the roadway rose. According to one report, a couple of times drivers experienced waves 10 feet high.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190330063528/http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TNBhistory/Connections/connections2.htm

    To engineers Gertie’s “bounce” represented “structural instability.” They set about trying to fix the “vertical oscillation.”

    From the first week of May 1940, as workmen finished the bridge’s floor system, engineers and others noticed the deck’s vertical wave motions, or “bounce.” They knew something was wrong. Months before, in the summer of 1939, they had heard rumors of similar small waves in another suspension span, the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge, which opened in April 1939. The Bronx-Whitestone Bridge, like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, had been designed by consultant Leon Moisseiff of New York.

    They contacted Moisseiff. He admitted that two of his latest bridges (the Deer Island Bridge and the Bronx-Whitestone Bridge) were experiencing similar movements, though on a much smaller scale.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190330063757/http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TNBhistory/Connections/connections3.htm

    As for Eldridge, a full half-dozen of his bridges from the 1930s remain in operation today in Pugetopolis. His Columbia River bridge from Cathlamet, Wahiakum Co., to Puget Island (a wayss upriver from Astoria, OR) is in poor shape deckwise but remarkably sound structurally for its age. I regularly visit his Art Deco bridge down in the state capital, Olympia, when I have occasion to go there.

    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @Sean
    , @Iris
  379. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    False flaggot, allow me–if I may–to explain to you and your pals’ audience here (me and 3-4 others) that there are insuperable logical difficulties in Sabrosky’s contention that the WTC7 collapse proves a 9/11 (Israeli) government false flag conspiracy. Consider, Sarosky would have us believe that the 911 plotters wired three buildings for demolition (the WTC towers 1 and 2, plus the smaller WTC7), and then flew planes into the two WTC towers and shortly afterward detonated the preplaced explosives in the two towers to make it look like the planes brought the towers down. All well and good.

    But we are also asked by Sabrosky to believe that hours later with firemen, law enforcement and media all over the WTC7 location, the conspiracy did a controled demolition of WTC7, which happened to be a building not hit by a plane. It had looked so secure the Mayor had actually set up his emergency HQ in WTC7 earlier that day. This collapse of WTC7 without it being hit by a plane is the proof of controlled demolition og WTC& and a 9/11 false-flag plot and controlled demolition of the two WTC towers, according to to Sabrosky. Well why did the plotters bring down WTC7 then? If they did it there was a reason so Machivalian that no one can explain why the conspirators might have done it as part of a plan for putting over a false flag; even from the point of view of an fradualent insurance claim it makes lttle sense (and who was running this operation Mossad for Israel or a fraudster for himself) .

    Bringing downWTC7 would exponentially increase the chances of the conspiracy incriminating themselves. Only in fantasies do people do stuff without worrying about getting caught. The little people at the sharp end of a 9/11 false flag operation, and there would be a lot of them, could not be left alive. And they would know that. It is like that episode of Bilko when he convinces a thugish recuit that the squad are going to rob Fort Knox. Bilko can convince anyone of anything but the recruit flees.

    One thing I cannot accuse Sabrosky of is being paranoid, because paraniod people think there is a conspiracy against them, yet Sobotsky is the opposite of that, or he is lying to himself. Assume for the sake of argument he is correct about Israel and 9/11, In than case Sabotsky is totally oblivious to the self evident dangerousness of the knowlege he is dropping. Just knowing this stuff woud be perilous, while actually talking about it on podcasts would be suicidal.

    Same goes for any comenter. If their flase flag theory was anywhere near correct they would be silenced: bankrupted, sent to a mental institution, accused of sex crime, financial malfeasance and killed by accident or illness. And they would not stop at the target they family would be targeted. Iif you are serious about deterring whistleblowers/ investigators you go after their family ( implacable retribution on Skirpal’s daughter works to frighten wavering Russians out of taking Western money to betray their country). It would be inviting death to make podcast on such a group. Only in movies can the hero ignore the unconfortable fact that totally evil people with not spitefully kill mmrnbers of his family. It called plot satifaction, the way the hero up aganst a his level conspiracy does not have inexplicable misfortunes and end up in a prison where he is surounded by angry young black gang bangers. Anything the GRU can do Mossad can do better. The guilty plotters being named on comment thread could not just sit just sit and wait for a net spawned vigilante to take a shot at bring them th justice. One determined person could make a good attempt, even a small group would be likely to suceed..

    Please don’t say they a 9/11 plot cutting of Barrett’s live poscasts would not dare do anything to Truthers. These are the people you say did 9/11 under the nose of the watching world, and putatively brought down WTC7 even though no plane had crashed into it, They cannot arrange a fake heart attack, traffic accidient or suicide? Ignoring an snowballing campagn would not be an option for the people being accused if they were guilty. What would be literally insane is to name these organisations, countries and businessmen as a mass murdering conspiracy still micromanaging interferance of Barrett’s YouTube live feeds, if you thought they actually were what you say they are, or even that there was a good chance that may be the case. So no, I don’t think Sabrosky is insane. Insanity is serious and I don’t take Sabrosky’s allegations seriously. Judging by the fact that he is alive and well, no one else does either. Remember Mr X the whistleblower to Jim Garrison in Oliver Stone’s JFK , how X says that if he goes public he will be confined to a mental institution (General Edwin Walker was held in a mental institution on the orders of the Kennedys).

    • Replies: @Robjil
    , @ChuckOrloski
  380. @ChuckOrloski

    No need to thank me, InZit! I only ask that you update your jokes.

    Updating? Please, no. If they’re as cringe-worthy as its comments, that’s quite enough, thank you!

  381. Robjil says:
    @Sean

    Our rulers allow some naming to go on. It is part of the plan. Yes, the plausible deniability game, which you mentioned, is used by both the US and Israel as their most common way to get rid of dissidents.

    But, our rulers want some outlet for people, some steam to be let out, otherwise the whole thing with a slight crack would come tumbling down into tiny bits like WTC.

    The other reason it is the bad karma or the masses are stupid thing. Our rulers think by leaving a lot of shoddy work at their false flags. Then, if the little people take don’t investigate or point to our rulers with all the clues that they did it. The bad karma is given to the little people for not pursuing the criminals who did it. Also, mainly our rulers have firm knowledge that the masses are like farm “animals” since they don’t care what our rulers do them.

    Thus, the constant talk of IQ from our rulers. They think of us, the masses, as farm animals and nothing more than that. Mad Albright gave us a clue about this thinking when she said it was OK for 500000 Iraqi children dying from US sanctions. Wesley Clark mentions the seven nations to destroy plan for the nine eleven false flag. Why no outcry by our “free” press? Our “free” press is in the game, we are all farm “animals” to them to be herded this way or that way.

    • Replies: @Sean
  382. @Rurik

    The Southern Man

    Hey!

    I’m the Southern Man.

  383. @Olorin

    Very interesting comment. Would you be willing to make a brief comment on if it was replaced, and if so, how much it cost? Sorry for asking, but I’m currently short of time or I’d look it up.

  384. @Sean

    Speaking mindlessly downward to NoseytheDuke, Little Sean wrote: False flaggot, allow me–if I may–to explain to you and your pals’ audience here (me and 3-4 others) that there are insuperable logical difficulties in Sabrosky’s contention that the WTC7 collapse proves a 9/11 (Israeli) government false flag conspiracy.”

    Hey Mr. Know it All!

    First off, I take cordial issue with Kevin Barrett’s proclamation that Alan Sabrosky is “The most censored man in America.”

    I posit the honorable Mr. Sabrosky is in neck & neck competition with Christopher Bollyn. Of course were Michael Collins Piper not among the dearly Departed, he would be great competition as America’s most censored man.

    Fyi, Mr. Faggot Know it All, upon doing intense research in order to write his spectacular whistle-blowing book, “Solving 9/11,” Christopher Bollyn shared the fact that a goon squad, dressed as cops, beat him up nearby his Chicago residence.

    Am amazed Mr. Bollyn survived the beating. But then again, as Israeli criminals know that they can kill JFK & murder USS Liberty crewman, and do 9/11 without accountability / reprisal, why should they worry about Bollyn’s acts of truth-telling and hosting seminars, for one example, he was a featured speaker at a NOI assembly.

    I for one posit the idea that Israeli Jew “Deciders” made a principled decision to allow Christopher Bollyn to stay alive and continue exposure of the Zionist role in the 9/11 False Flag and subsequent kick-off of the abominable GWOT. (No doubt, claques of ruling international Jewry diabolically delight in rubbing P. Zelikow shit into the rubbed raw American dumb goyim faces)

    A question. As you routinely trash the patriotic work of US Marine Sabrosky here, do you think he’s more “censored” than Christopher Bollyn?

    (Zigh) In this article, butt-fucker, you try to make principled & intelligent U.R. commenters for ‘9/11 Truth” shiver for fear of their life & their families.😈 Doubtless, with understandable reason, many are!

    However, a percentage of aware American patriots recall & are inspired to ACTION by the 1st martyr to Jewish lies, punishment, & condemnation, The Christ. This sleeping global spiritual phenomenon is the one which the ‘Synagogue of Satan” fears most.

    So continue to be unflappably complicit by supporting Israeli deception & subsequent high crime, Little Sean! 🤗

    🖕And, “Good night America.”

    • Agree: Robjil, jacques sheete
  385. Sean says:
    @Robjil

    But, our rulers want some outlet for people, some steam to be let out, otherwise the whole thing with a slight crack would come tumbling down into tiny bits like WTC.

    Remember what I said about Trump and momentum, he started off as a joke but became unstoppable. I understand what you are saying, but I think preventing anyone building up a head of steam is the relevant metaphor. And that is only talking about public opinion and politics. For a vigilante attack it would need only one person to become convinced. I know Sabrosky and many others say they are convinced but their inaction is so inconsistant with their accusations it belies their declamations. One wonders what the Truthers are really doing and if one askes what purpose it serves, I think Trutherism must be acconted an entirely non principled activity. Serious people act on their principles. Not every Truther has a very slow hearbeat of course, but there would be one by now.

    The bad karma is given to the little people for not pursuing the criminals who did it.

    You will always get the one, and it only takes one. Look, if 99.9 % do not see what is going on and of that 0.1 %, 99.9% just make comments on the internet that still leaves a few who are going to take action. The public figure plotters outed as in on the murder of thousands would have a rather short life expectancy in America; someone would shoot them. But that is assuming the discussions of responsability are serious, which is my point. If a 9/11 conspiracy with its leadership partly in the US existed they could not ignore their members being named in false-flag-by- Israel allegations out of fear of vigilanty attacks . The other side of the coin is those attacks would come if the discussion was serious on the Truther’s side. People say one thing and do another all the time, but if the Truther’s avowed beliefs were genuinely held, there would be several among them who would already have acted rashly: Ted Kaczynski style. Kaczynski has an extremely low heart rate; homocide and the personal costs do not bother a tiny minority, and there are many of them in total.

    Although LH Oswald was motivated partly by desire to help Cuba, I think you’re missing the point talking about foreign countries that are suffering from US policy. Oswald tried to kill Gen Edwin Walker because the general was a domestic anticommunist. I don’t want to quote William L. Pierce’s “Hunter ” because it is a rather slapdash novel, but in that book an FBI agent uses a domestic terrorist to asassinate members of Mossad and top politicans in league with them. Any domestic intellegence agent could use people they were ostensibly investigating against a high level conspiracy if all other routes to justice were blocked. Whitey Bulger was killing off Boston gangsters for a rogue member of the FBI remember. There would be some Truthers outrages if the Truthers were what they claim, but in actuality they are far from real believers, being engaged in a role play game.

  386. Sean says:
    @Olorin

    WTC& had a lack of horozntal bracing. even though it was allowed by the Port Authitity to be built over a substation.

  387. Saggy says: • Website
    @NoseytheDuke

    Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth make no assertions of any version of events as you falsely claim.

    Christ in heaven ! I’ll give it a break. You can’t debate the brain dead.

    • Troll: L.K
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  388. Fyi:

    Penn Magazine
    April 2019

    Find it here:
    pennmagazine.us

    Also here:
    https://archive.org/details/AprilIssuePennMagazine_201903/page/n10

    Penn Magazine is named in honor of Penn Jones, Jr.,
    a small town journalist, newspaper reporter, editor, publisher,
    one of the first researchers into the John F. Kennedy murder,
    an honest newsman, who did not lie to us.

    Mike Palecek, editor
    Chuck Gregory, publisher
    [email protected]

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Iris
  389. Incitatus says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    “obfuscate issues that real patriots seek to discuss on this fine forum”

    You’re a “patriot”? What country Nosey? Disneyland?

    Is this an example of ‘discussion’:

    “relentless snide and bitchy “humour…Queen of disingenuous wafflers… old queen…The best part of you commenting here though is that while you’re tapping out your little bitchisms at length at least you aren’t out in the public playgrounds menacing little boys.”

    Quite the intellectual, aren’t you? Just like FB. How lucky we “sheeple” to have you!

    “As for FB, I would place the value of any one of dozens of his informed and well-written comments to be well above the entirety of your own”

    You can’t say “FB’s comments have basic errors or not.” QED your highest “value” is agreeable mimes that don’t tax your intellect. Lazy paranoia + passive-aggression + hopeless melancholia?

    Condolences on Alex Jones:

    “InfoWars host Alex Jones, who is being sued by several parents of Sandy Hook victims, said in a deposition released Friday that he now believes the massacre was not a hoax. In the deposition posted on YouTube, Jones said he believes 26 people were killed in the 2012 shooting, but that “a form of psychosis” made him believe it was staged.”

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/infowars-alex-jones-deposition-says-he-had-a-form-of-psychosis-when-spreading-sandy-hook-conspiracies/

    Alex’s sworn remarks are enlightening [emphasis added]:

    “I’ve always, from the beginning, had questions about any big public event that’s hyped up because so many times parts of it are being covered up or things are being staged or they’re not letting a new crisis go to waste. Sometimes things are completely made up…I questioned it [Sandy Hook] up front. The public questioned it. And then, as I had time to go over it, a lot of the anomalies turned out to not be accurate; and I believe school shootings happen…

    “sometimes people claim they’ve been hurt when they haven’t been. So you have to look at the agenda behind things. You have to balance things about
    And I, myself, have almost had like a form of psychosis back in the past where I basically thought everything was staged, even though I’m now learning a lot of times things aren’t staged. So I think as a pundit, someone giving an opinion, that, you know, my opinions have been wrong; but they were never wrong consciously to hurt people.”

    “Well, I’m just saying that the trauma of the media and the corporations lying so much, then everything begins…pretty soon they don’t know what reality is. So long before these lawsuits I said that in the past I thought everything was a conspiracy and I would kind of get into that mass group think of the communities that were out there saying that. And so now I see that it’s more in the middle. All right? So that’s where I stand”

    https://www.scribd.com/document/403646647/Alex-Jones-Sandy-Hook-Deposition

    No need to mention millions Alex’s made peddling mistrust.

    Forget Tolstoy, Nosey. Take it from Alex, this is more your style:

    “There’s a sucker born every minute.”

    -P. T. Barnum (attributed)

    [You have already been warned to use blockquotes rather than bolding. Too much bolding will get your comments trashed.]

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  390. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    “You’re fortunate no commenters here recall how the engineer, “‘FB,” took you to the woodshed on the topic of 9/11 and in particular, the principles of “heat transfer.”

    Why not refresh our memories? Tell us the relevance of “principles of heat transfer”. Here’s some of FB’s argument:

    “Shut the fuck up Inchworm…fucking fraud…fake…waste my time…fucking word games…useless fool…complete joke…assholes like you…you dimwit…what a shithead you are…you are butt hurt…a complete loser…You are shockingly limited…your own prejudices limit your ability…flim flam artists like you…”

    Same engineering school Nosey attended?

    While you’re at it, explain why structural steel, thought by FB more fire resistant than concrete, requires applied fireproofing.

  391. Wally says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    “There were total power shutdowns just prior to the event for the first time in the history of the buildings. IIRC the reason given was for data cable upgrades.”

    And of course that would require closing the WTC which Andrew Mathis denies, and that is when elevators were “being repaired” which Mathis also denies.

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  392. Sparkon says:
    @jacques sheete

    The drawing is credited to FEMA, although I haven’t been able to find the original FEMA document in the maze of 9/11 studies and publications.

    http://911encyclopedia.com/wiki/index.php/World_Trade_Center_Debris_Field_Distribution

    Why do you say the drawing is “obviously fake”?

    If a drawing or schematic does not reflect reality, it is usually described as being “inaccurate,” not “fake,” so I’m not sure what claim you are making. Feel free to flesh it out at little.

    As far as I can tell, the schematic generally reflects what I can see in the Ground Zero photographs, although placement of the Xs on the Winter Garden Atrium does not comport with the location of the exterior “chex” section photographed protruding more from the middle of the WGA, and not from its edge.

    Can you explain why there are no massive debris heaps apparent in the Ground Zero photographs of WTC 1 and 2?

    The debris heap for WTC 7 appears to be at least several stories high, and that building does appear to have “collapsed into its own footprint,” by and large, although Bldg. 7’s destruction did rip up an adjacent building to the point where it had be torn down, but at least we can see its debris heap generally confined within its original footprint, but where are the debris heaps for the twin towers?

    Anybody?

  393. Wally says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    See my comment #400.

    “Would explosives within some of the elevator shafts be enough to take the buildings down? If you know anything about how explosives are distributed in controlled demolitions, you know that you’d need the majority of explosives around the perimeter of the building — not in the center. ”

    Typical BS as if Mathis knows more than the architects & engineers at https://www.ae911truth.org/
    LOL
    The center of the WTC buildings was where the internal support columns carried the vast bulk of the load and I remind the always goofy Andrew Mathis that photos & videos show exterior explosions as well.

    also recommended:
    https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/explosive-features
    i.e.:
    https://www.ae911truth.org/news/479-security-alerts-disabled-fire-alarms-and-unused-elevators-suspicious-events-at-the-world-trade-center-before-9-11

    • Replies: @Andrew E. Mathis
  394. @Wally

    Except that didn’t actually happen and you can’t prove otherwise

  395. 9/11 remains the litmus test for which side of the line one is on. Have you ever read any shillizen™ on this forum not side with the official narrative? That should tell you all you need to know about them. Why engage in pointless debates with pro-Israeli shills?

    I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig.
    You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

    — George Bernard Shaw

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Robjil
  396. @Incitatus

    Regarding my explaining engineer FB’s argument, who the fuck do you think you are to tell me what to do, InZitatus the Builder? Ha-ha-ha! (zzzZigh)

    Since FB is M.I.A. from U.R. comment threads, you’re a lucky phoney. While such lasts, my congratulations!

    Uh, btw, how did you like my homemade Polish joke which appears above? 🖕

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  397. @Incitatus

    So magnanimously numb, linked below, InZitatus provided FB’s past comment which perfectly 🙌profiled him:

    “Here’s some of FB’s argument:
    “Shut the fuck up Inchworm…fucking fraud…fake…waste my time…fucking word games…useless fool…complete joke…assholes like you…you dimwit…what a shithead you are…you are butt hurt…a complete loser…You are shockingly limited…your own prejudices limit your ability…flim flam artists like…”

    Thanks a lot, InZit. And nobody could have “said it better” than engineer, ‘FB!

  398. @Wally

    Wrong

    In terms of structural system the twin towers departed completely from other high-rise buildings. Conventional skyscrapers since the 19th century have been built with a skeleton of interior supporting columns that supports the structure. Exterior walls of glass steel or synthetic material do not carry any load. The Twin towers are radically different in structural design as the exterior wall is used as the load-bearing wall. (A load bearing wall supports the weight of the floors.) The only interior columns are located in the core area, which contains the elevators. The outer wall carries the building vertical loads and provides the entire resistance to wind. The wall consists of closely spaced vertical columns (21 columns 10 feet apart) tied together by horizontal spandrel beams that girdle the tower at every floor. On the inside of the structure the floor sections consist of trusses spanning from the core to the outer wall.

    • Replies: @Sean
  399. Surely Andrew Anglin deserves the title “most censored man in America”, possibly the world?

    • Agree: Saggy
  400. Iris says:
    @Olorin

    The Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse was due to WA state engineer Clark Eldridge’s original plan–with stiffening trusses–being cheapened up (by some 40%) by NYC bridge consultant Leon Moisieff, who resisted all of Eldridge’s concern about wind resonance effects

    Thanks for posting this very valuable information.

    So the Civil Engineer made no mistake, and correctly calculated the stiffening required to avoid resonance vibration mode. But his design wasn’t respected due to a bureaucrat poking his big nose, and what the universal Laws of Physics predict with certainty happened; the Tacoma bridge’s vibration frequency reached the critical resonance frequency and the bridge collapsed.

    In summary, even in 1940, when engineers had no specialist software to process complex structural calculations, they were perfectly competent to design structures which would withstand any event that would have been catered for in the calculations..

    I am grateful to you making this point: it illustrates well what engineers mean by the Twin Towers being designed to withstand a plane crash. It is not magic, it is Physics, it is universal in time and space: on Nine Eleven, the Towers were not brought down by planes.

    • Agree: Robjil
  401. Sean says:
    @Andrew E. Mathis

    The WTC7 was built over a Con Edison Substation. In many ways WTC was a unique building. Transfer trusses were used on the 5–7th floors to redistribute load to the foundation. There were sereral hundred gallons of diesel fuel in tanks between the 5th and 7th floors

    A dissenting opinion on the developers having Con Edison’s case dismissed

    “Plaintiffs’ experts have articulated a standard of care: high-rise buildings must be built to withstand a fire that cannot be extinguished by the efforts of firefighters,” Wesley wrote. “One would think that, on this record, the majority, would want to hear from defendants’ experts on why 7 WTC collapsed.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/usa-worldtradecenter-conedison/high-rise-developers-win-court-protection-in-9-11-wtc-case-idUSL2N0JJ1F420131204

    Sabrosky has one argument for Israel having done a false flag controlled demolitions 9/11, and it is WTC7 collapsing without being hit by a plane. Planes carry fuel.

    • Replies: @Iris
  402. Iris says:
    @Mike Palecek

    Thank you for posting the link to the Penn Magazine on this forum; I, for one, much appreciate it.

    The readers interested in whether nuclear charges were used during Nine Eleven can read the letter of Stuctural Engineer Joe Olson to President Trump (from page 39), where he endorses the nuclear demolition thesis.

    He rightly points as some unmissable signs that the Twin Towers were destroyed by nuclear charges:
    – the dustification of large amounts of concrete and steel
    – the absence of stack of debris
    – 400 000 tons of “missing” steel and concrete.

    • Agree: Robjil
  403. @Incitatus

    For the record, FB put you back in your little box after you disingenuously attempted to draw parallels between a fire damaged, steel re-enforced concrete framed, medium height structure and the steel framed, skyscraper structures that were destroyed on 9/11. As a self described builder of tall buildings you would be expected to know the vast structural differences between the two so while it is true that FB resorts to extreme profanity when angered, it is also true that some people don’t tolerate fools gladly and are even more intolerant when they detect the disingenuous manipulations of an inchworm such as yourself.

    FWIW, I’ve heard of Alex Jones but have never looked at his website and I even had to look up Andrew Anglin when the name came up a few comments ago. I have never claimed to be an American patriot but have always maintained support for the cause of those whom I consider to be true American patriots. Is that clear enough for you now?

  404. @NoseytheDuke

    Inzi-shithead has also repeatedly tried to use the example of that collapsed South American building- that local authorities had publicly warned about previously as an unstable disaster in the waiting – to support the official line on 9-11. Truly a dishonest shithead.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  405. @Saggy

    You can’t debate the brain dead.

    That’s why I have yet to “debate” you and the bulk of the other true believers.

    I agree with L.K.’s assessment.

    • Agree: Beefcake the Mighty
  406. Iris says:
    @Sean

    Sabrosky has one argument for Israel having done a false flag controlled demolitions 9/11, and it is WTC7 collapsing without being hit by a plane.”

    What is it that you don’t understand in the simple statement that 3 towers cannot be brought down by 2 planes?

    WTC was only 186 metres high; it was too low for the path of a commercial plane and would have made the entire “plane crash” bogus story look even more grotesque than it already does.

    Interesting that you mention WTC7, because its collapse is another proof of demolition by an underground explosion.

    WTC7, standing on the Con Edison substation’s columns, had a larger footprint than its actual foundations.
    Up to the 7th Floor, exterior columns had no structural role and were in fact “hanging” of the upper structure rather than supporting it.

    So when the underground explosion occurred, the shock wave it caused was logically transmitted through the core foundation and pulverised WTC7, but did not affect the columns and walls up to the 7th floors, which experienced less or no shattering.

    This was quite visible from WTC7 rubble pile.

    • Replies: @Sean
  407. Robjil says:
    @Cloak And Dagger

    That is true. All Pro- Israel shillers seem to have the exact game plan as MSM, not one iota or speck of divergence from it.

    Why are they here? They have their homeland news – MSM.
    It is a waste of time talking to them.

    They are wasting their time here too since we who are realists at this site are not falling for Santa Clausism, which is the belief in, without one speck of doubt, in all things that the “Big Adults”of MSM say is so. Realists at this site want to hear voices outside the Santa Claus- like MSM racket.

    • Agree: Iris
  408. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Alex Jones is the only 9/11 Truther that people have demonstrated a belief in. The day after 9/11 Jones went on his radio show and called it “an inside job.” More recently he said Clinton ran child molestation ring out of a pizza restaurant in Washington, DC, with orders such as cheese, hot dog, and pizza, actually being code for molestation.. In 2017 a man from North Carolina went into the restraunt, reatedly fired an assault rifle, pointed it at an employess and threatened to kill people as famlies fled because he believed a conspiracy theory joned had been diseminating

    Two years before Jerad Miller and his wife nurdered two police officers and an concealed carry man who tried to intervene in the Miller’s2014 Las Vegas shootings spree, weed dealer Miller had posted about killing the police on Alex Jones site ( “The Police To Kill Or Not To Kill?), Miller thought his his bad teeth were the governments fault. Alex Jones insisted the murders Miller and his wife committed out were “absolutely staged” by the federal government.

  409. Sean says:
    @Iris

    Sabrosky is who this post is about, and he says the collapse of WTC7 without being hit by planes was clearl proofit was destroyed by a controled demolition so the towers were too. Silverstein got permission to build WTC7 over a Con Edison substation long before they acquired the ground rent for WTC 1 and 2. It would have been drawing attention to them to involve that building, which no one has suggested a reason for taking down anyway.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  410. Mike P says:
    @Sean

    The other two towers were destroyed by demolition, too, since

    1. the planes were clearly video fakes;

    2. even if they had been real, the force of their impact and the effects of the fires could not have brought down the towers;

    3. even if the fires could have done that, they could not have pulverised the buildings the way it happened;

    4. nanothermite explosive was detected in the form of unreacted residue, as were the telltale signs of its effects on steel beams.

    That doesn’t mean that nanothermite was the only explosive used; there may well have been others. Open questions remain. However, it is abundantly clear that the official story is a lie from top to bottom. You know it, I know it, everyone with half a brain who has ever looked into it knows it. How people position themselves to this question is not a question of knowledge or intellect but only of character and ethics.

    • Agree: NoseytheDuke
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @ChuckOrloski
    , @Sparkon
  411. Sean says:
    @Mike P

    But what was the reason for bringing down 7 WTC. They could have but why would they do something so counterproductive?

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Mike P
  412. @Mike P

    Hey Mike P!

    I suggest to all commenters here to boycott & desist from exchanging “thought” with Sean.

    Sean writes as if to intentionally violate even what little common sense & reason capacity he has.😌 He is an offense to every known tenet of crime scene investigation!

    Subsequently, & to reiterate, maintaining silence to his comments will force him to collaborate & bond with like-minded, the Grand Obfuscator InZitatus and Saggy.

    Of course do as you please, and thanks for your regular educational offerings, Mike P!

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    , @Mike P
  413. @Sean

    Again you reply to a sensible comment with yet another of your stupid questions. Stupid is as stupid does. Read it again, especially this part

    it is abundantly clear that the official story is a lie from top to bottom. You know it, I know it, everyone with half a brain who has ever looked into it knows it. How people position themselves to this question is not a question of knowledge or intellect but only of character and ethics.

  414. @ChuckOrloski

    I wrote a similar comment once and Ron Unz responded saying that there are a great many readers of these articles and comments who do not comment themselves. He suggested that by countering the Seans, Wizards, Inzits and that type (he didn’t actually name them) then those readers have a better chance of determining what is really true or not and who is earnest and who is not.

    • Agree: Mike P
    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
    , @Anonymous
  415. @Incitatus

    Objections to excessive use of CAPs I can understand (though posting from smartphones may make it one of the few available means of emphasis). But I can’t see what the editor’s point is about your bolding in this comment.

    BTW thanks for helping to demolish the sick Sandy Hook conspiracy theory. The Christchurch shooting seems to be as good at collecting up the seriously barmy …. but of course we know Ron is offering a fly trap which will allow the PTB [yep, I think I got the jargon right] to scoop up a bunch of paranoid nutters one day after raiding Ron’s server.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  416. @Iris

    You make very strong assertions about technical matters. What are your qualifications to do so?

    • Replies: @Iris
  417. @Anonymous

    You use the word “would” in a way which suggests you are not deploying any special knowledge of the facts or technical expertise so allow me to point out that your supposed double the expected load margin of safety doesn’t add up to much when you turn static load into dynamic. I suspect you haven’t read the NIST FAQ that I linked where people with undoubted technical qualifications address those issues. Time to open the mind perhaps.

  418. @Incitatus

    I am intrigued by your notes on the sad NtD character that emerges from his usually rather shortwinded and offensive emissions. I suppose that his pretensions could have been supported by inheritance from a jewellery *salesman* if he has no children, or at least none that he cares or provides for. I see an incel in a high rise apartment where he spends a few highly paid hours a month (taking him at his word) and now I can speculate it is valuing jewellery for insurance purposes. The trouble with that is that he would have to have some bulk trade for it to be very remunerative. Any advance on all that? But first, where do you get the jewellery salesman father from?

    • Replies: @Incitatus
    , @NoseytheDuke
  419. @NoseytheDuke

    A serious person doesn’t waste his time, apart maybe from a bit of private vaudeville, with the half deranged Chuck and you don’t improve your credentials by endorsing extravagant handwaving “lie from top to bottom” statements. That could be interpreted as denying that planes were hijacked, that their passengers died just for starters. And that way lies madness right up with Sandy Hook was a fake designed to support gun control.

    In the end (and that’s just for the sane because there’s no quenching paranoid fantasies) the resolution can only come from a redetermination of the causes of collapse, maybe as a result of current attempts to get it all up before a Grand Jury. Can we take it that you are open to a finding that weakening by fire plus gravity was all that was required? If not, why not,?

  420. Sean says:

    Commenter “what will you do when Alex Jones comes for your gums” Sean is the Most Censored Man in clownland. Who’s afraid of Sean? False flagots with the ability to monitor and censor Unz.com comment threads in real time are. And they apparently don’t want you to know Sean thinks a steady diet of Pizzagate and Trutherism from the obesity inflamed imagination of Jones leads to poor self care and dental hygiene. Ineluctably, Porphyromonas gingivalis bacteria are travelling to your brain, gingipain-ing your neurons and bringing your schizy mental state ever closer to the type of denouement that is twice as common as killing somone else. A final insult will be Jones insisting that your suicide was “absolutely staged” by the federal government.

    • LOL: Incitatus
  421. @NoseytheDuke

    …it is abundantly clear that the official story is a lie from top to bottom. You know it, I know it, everyone with half a brain who has ever looked into it knows it.

    I agree. In fact, one would do well to predict that any story they invent is bogus from the beginning.

    I also agree that there’s some value in responding to the trolls in that they provide opportunities to illuminate that truth, and I heartily thank all of you who take the time to do it.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  422. Mike P says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    Hi Chuck,

    I agree with Nosey on this one – I don’t reply to Sean because I hold out any hope that he will concede a point or otherwise start behaving like a sensible human being. Instead, I calibrate my comments to the hypothetical reader who may be undecided on the question and trying to determine which side has the better case. This is why I try (usually) not to get involved in mud-wrestling but instead stick to factual arguments.

    That doesn’t mean everyone has to adopt this slightly anaemic style – I much enjoy your colourful and witty language.

    Best, M.

    • Agree: jacques sheete, Robjil
  423. Sparkon says:
    @Mike P

    4. nanothermite explosive was detected in the form of unreacted residue, as were the telltale signs of its effects on steel beams.

    Wrong! Nanothermite is not an explosive. When will that fact penetrate some of the thicker skulls around here?

    Additionally, the study done by Dr. James Millette on WTC dust did not find any thermite or nanothermite. I’ve already pointed this out previously to NtD, so I don’t know why he’s agreeing with you.

    Conclusions

    The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.

    There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite

    –Dr. James Millette
    Progress Report of Results: MVA9119
    Analysis of Red/Gray Chips in WTC Dust

    Thermite is a red herring.

    And I’m still waiting for Jacques Sheete to explain why he thinks that FEMA drawing showing debris distribution is “obviously fake.”

    ‘Also waiting for someone, anyone, to point out any substantial debris heaps from the twin towers in the photographs of Ground Zero. We should be seeing two gigantic bosoms of debris in those, you know, footprints, but since we can see the remains of WTC 1’s central core in one of the photos (looking past dome of WFC2), it’s clear there is no debris heap there.

  424. @NoseytheDuke

    Productively, NoseytheDuke reminded: ‘He (Ron Unz)suggested that by countering the Seans, Wizards, Inzits and that type (he didn’t actually name them) then those readers have a better chance of determining what is really true or not and who is earnest and who is not.”

    Hey NoseytheDuke!

    Above, there is logic, & I agree.

    Nonetheless, did not Sean admit to merely studying the 9/11 event and circumstances for one (1) week?

    Such suggests to me that Sean lacks the minimum criterion of “standing” on the diabolical & world changing event that could still lead to WW3.

    Thanks a lot, Nosey!

  425. Mike P says:
    @Sean

    But what was the reason for bringing down 7 WTC. They could have but why would they do something so counterproductive?

    The motive is an important question. To answer it, we need a proper investigation – precisely what the Bush government avoided. Considering that the admirable Lawyers and the Architects/Engineers for 9/11 Truth have succeeded getting a new grand jury empaneled by the AG of NY, we may yet learn the truth.

    Meanwhile, WTC7 remains a “body with multiple bullets to the head” – we can rule out suicide, even if we did not apprehend the killer.

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski
  426. Mike P says:
    @Sparkon

    Wrong! Nanothermite is not an explosive. When will that fact penetrate some of the thicker skulls around here?

    Without supplying a precise definition of “explosive”, this is not a particularly useful comment. Yes, the explosive force/pressure developed by a gram of nanothermite going off will be much smaller than that developed by a gram of TNT. However, nanothermite develops intense heat that can slice through steel.

    If you reread my comment, you will notice that I acknowledged the possibility of other explosives having been used as well. In particular, TNT and other organic explosives will burn up completely into gaseous end products and thus will leave essentially no chemical trace. I think their use in addition to nanothermite is not only possible but very likely.

    Nevertheless, I insist that nanothermite was used and is detectable in the dust, in the form of both unreacted residue and of reaction products – tiny metal spherules that were also generated in the lab when some of the unreacted chips were induced to react simply by heating them up to 420 degrees Celsius. The study that demonstrated this, by Harrit and colleagues, was extremely thorough and careful and simply leaves no room for reasonable doubt.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  427. @Wizard of Oz

    I seriously doubt the PTB need access to Ron’s servers (IP addresses don’t really reveal much anyway) to know who’s reliable and who’s not. Most commentators here are already on a naughty list somewhere. You’re not off the hook either Whiz; you remind me of Parsons from 1984, and you know what happened to him.

  428. Iris says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    What are your qualifications to do so?

    For once, Wizard, I completely agree with you: discussion threads, especially on the UR because of its controversial topics, are swarming with commentators who pretend to be highly-qualified scientists, engineers, professional pilots, etc…
    Some of the claims they make are grotesque in the eyes of a real professional.
    There is a very sophisticated monitoring and controlling over Internet discussion threads, and role-playing is part of it.

    Unless commentators are brave enough to reveal their real identity, there is no way to ascertain their professional credentials, and their claims shouldn’t be taken at face value, including mine.

    I try to post links to the sources I get information from, and to provide clear and simple explanations, with the right keywords, so people can do their own research and verify my statements.

    But my insignificant comments really are pointless: it is the “9/11 Architects and Engineers collective” one should get their information from. Their credentials are verifiable, their sources are open to the public.

    I shall finish with commentator Erebus’ favourite cartoon:

  429. @Sparkon

    And I’m still waiting for Jacques Sheete to explain why he thinks that FEMA drawing showing debris distribution is “obviously fake.”

    Note the sources. Neither has any credibility except in the eyes of the true believers. Obviously fake. Utter garbage. Have a nice day.

  430. L’affaire Hymie Brown, by itself, implicitly proves that the official narrative of 9/11 is a lie, and since the imposter is a jew who apparently fled to Israel when his fraud was exposed, Israel is implicated in the crime.

    http://911blogger.com/news/2009-06-02/%E2%80%9Cchief-engineer%E2%80%9D-hyman-brown-patrick-marks

  431. @Sparkon

    You guys are hilarious.

    Nanothermite is not an explosive. When will that fact penetrate some of the thicker skulls around here?

    Wrong. It’s a type of thermite. Thermite reacts with explosive violence once ignited. Nano-thermites were developed to obtain a faster rate of energy release. Try to connect the dots.

    PS: Thermites have been employed to weld and cast steel; however, I doubt they’d affect the thick skull of author of the quote highlighted here.

  432. Iris says:

    Yes, the explosive force/pressure developed by a gram of nanothermite going off will be much smaller than that developed by a gram of TNT.

    This is incorrect: the contrary is correct.

    The (unchallenged) peer-reviewed research paper that revealed the presence of military-grade nano-thermite in the aftermath of Nine Eleven demonstrates it well enough:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228660396_Active_Thermitic_Material_Discovered_in_Dust_from_the_911_World_Trade_Center_Catastrophe

    Typically, TNT delivers slightly over 4 kiloJoules per gram of matter. The red nano-thermite chips from WTC samples 3 and 4 delivered, under experimentation, between 6 and 7 kiloJoules per gram of matter.

    Nano-thermite is an explosive much more powerful than TNT.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  433. j2 says:
    @Iris

    “I try to post links to the sources I get information from, and to provide clear and simple explanations, with the right keywords, so people can do their own research and verify my statements.”

    And this you do very well and your comments are very useful. It matters none if you are a French woman or a man from the US North-Eastern coast, or as Chuck wrote : “The Southern 🇮🇱 Man.” There are enough commenters who can correct it some claim is not quite true. BR.

    • Replies: @Iris
  434. Sean says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    No technical argument can settle the matter because one must always concede the possibility that the evidence available to us could be faked by a powerful enough conspiracy or Lobby. Nevertheless, certain questions about the conspiracy hypothesis can expose holes in it too, because a conspiracy for the very highest of stakes is not going to do anything that is very clearly against its own interests. If the government is presumed to be engaged on a high stakes deception operation to cover for the conspiracy in which they are trying to decieve (lie) about the whole thing, it is reasonable to point out a glaring anomaly that does not fit the “official story is a lie from top to bottom” scenario.

    A controlled demolition of 7WTC is, to me at least, something that a conspiracy could not risk, because it cast doubt on the official explaination of 1 and 2 WTC (the Towers) as having collapsed as a result of hijacked planes being flown into them, which the whole putative false flag operation was intended to bring the public to believe. Yet no plane hit 7WTC and it came down anyway. For a false flag conspiracy in the aformentioned context, taking the two WTC Towers down makes sense Why on earth a conspiracy would blow up 7 WTC and discredit their own core deception is something I have got no credible anwer to. If 7WTC was brought down without a plane strike or a controled demolition, then each of the two Towers were brought down by a plane strike and not a controlled demolition.

    The contention of Sabrosky that 7WTC coming down is proof of a contolled demolition plot is the absolute opposite of a logical who–benefits argument, as far as I can see. Nonetheless, Sabrosky’s contention that Israel was responsible for 9/11 is not at all refuted because Mossad could have been behind the 9/11 attacks, it’s not impossible and they did benefit.

  435. @Iris

    To Wizard of oZ, Iris profoundly said: For once, Wizard, I completely agree with you: discussion threads, especially on the UR because of its controversial topics, are swarming with commentators who pretend to be highly-qualified scientists, engineers, professional pilots, etc…”

    My, my, Iris! You are the real deal; careful, precise, annotated, & priceless are your comments.

    I too appreciate the cartoon. So again, thank you very much!

  436. Sparkon says:
    @Mike P

    Nevertheless, I insist that nanothermite was used and is detectable in the dust

    You can insist all you want, and I’m sure you will, but it doesn’t carry any weight until you explain why Dr. Millette failed to find any thermite or nanothermite in his thorough scientific examination of WTC dust.

    In summary, red/gray chips with the same morphological characteristics, elemental spectra and magnetic attraction as those shown in Harrit et al. were found in WTC dust samples from four different locations than those examined by Harrit, et al. The gray side is consistent with carbon steel. The red side contains the elements: C, O, Al, Si, and Fe with small amounts of other elements such as Ti and Ca. Based on the infrared absorption (FTIR) data, the C/O matrix material is an epoxy resin. Based on the optical and electron microscopy data, the Fe/O particles are an iron oxide pigment consisting of crystalline grains in the 100-200 nm range and the Al/Si particles are kaolin clay plates that are less than a micrometer thick. There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles detected by PLM, SEM-EDS, or TEM-SAED-EDS, during the analyses of the red layers in their original form or after sample preparation by ashing, thin sectioning or following MEK treatment.
    […]

    The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.

    There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite.

    (my bold)

    WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

    Wrong! Nanothermite is not an explosive. When will that fact penetrate some of the thicker skulls around here?

    Without supplying a precise definition of “explosive”, this is not a particularly useful comment.

    Ha ha. What malarkey! We’ve been down this path before Mike P, but just as a refresher:

    Nanothermite has an detonation velocity of 895 m/s. To destroy concrete or steel requires detonation velocities of at least 3,100 m/s for concrete and 6,100 m/s for steel.

    — Jim Fetzer

    https://kevinbarrett.heresycentral.is/2011/08/richard-forer-on-transforming-fear-into-compassion-jim-fetzer-questions-nanothermite/

    So no thermate, thermite, or nanothermite could have blown the twin towers apart and reduced much of their mass to dust to the point where there are no debris heaps “in their respective footprints.”

    But I suppose it’s easy enough to disbelieve your lying eyes when you’ve got dogma.

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Mike P
    , @Harold Smith
  437. Iris says:
    @j2

    Thanks J2, for the time and consideration.

    The point you make about who can analyse and draw conclusions from the Nine Eleven tragedy is extremely important:

    – The laws of Physics and Engineering are universal; there is no way they were suspended on that fateful day.

    – Everywhere in Western Europe, Russia, Asia, Africa, etc.. there are 100,000’s of people with, say, an academic level of Bachelor in Physics, who can easily acquire a deep understanding of what, in the official version, is in utter contradiction with science, making the official version therefore impossible.

    The truth will not go away: Nine Eleven was a crime against humanity which cannot be so easily covered up, thanks to the Internet. Best.

  438. @Sean

    “A controlled demolition of 7WTC is, to me at least, something that a conspiracy could not risk, because it cast doubt on the official explaination of 1 and 2 WTC (the Towers) as having collapsed as a result of hijacked planes being flown into them, which the whole putative false flag operation was intended to bring the public to believe.”

    How much risk is there when the perpetrators have almost total control of the U.S. government?

    Let’s consult the robust historical record for a clue: What happened to the perpetrators when they got caught red-handed trying to sink the USS Liberty and murder the whole crew, for example?

    Nothing, that’s what. In fact, the sitting jew puppet ruler at the time, Johnson, seemed angry that the jews failed in their mission to sink the ship murder his own people.

    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Mike P
  439. Iris says:
    @Sparkon

    And I’m still waiting for Jacques Sheete to explain why he thinks that FEMA drawing showing debris distribution is “obviously fake.”

    I can see a very good reason for that: the dustification process that completely shattered 100’s tons of rubble is an unmissable sign that the towers were destroyed by a formidable shock wave, resulting from an explosion.
    It was necessary to “fake” the presence of some rubble.

  440. Mike P says:
    @Iris

    Yes, the explosive force/pressure developed by a gram of nanothermite going off will be much smaller than that developed by a gram of TNT.

    This is incorrect: the contrary is correct.

    Iris, if you look at your own graph, you will see that the energy/mass ratio is lower for Al/Fe2O3 than for TNT; my comparison was based on this ratio.

    In addition, the explosive force depends not only on the amount of energy released, but on how much gas is produced in the reaction. One molecule of TNT produces about 7 molecules (in vacuum) to 11 molecules (in air) of various gases (I just looked it up). All that gas, when heated up, will develop a lot of pressure.

    In contrast, with nanothermite, there is no gas production – all the pressure will have to come from the heating up of surrounding air. This is probably what Sparkon is referring to when insisting that “nanothermite is not an explosive.” Because of this, I also tend to think that other, proper explosives must have been used in the demolition of the towers as well. That does not detract in any way from the importance of the detection of nanothermite.

    • Replies: @Iris
  441. CeeCee Lyles died on Sept. 11th.
    Listen to the message she left for her husband and specifically at the 36 second mark.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  442. Mike P says:
    @Sparkon

    What part of

    I think their use [of other explosives] in addition to nanothermite is not only possible but very likely

    do you fail to understand?

    As to Fetzer’s numbers, they are pseudo-accurate – it is pointless to state with triple digits what “velocities” are needed or produced without reference to the amounts of explosives or steel substrate present. That is like saying “a human requires exactly 2345,67 kcal of food per day,” without reference to size, age, and physical activity. That you would quote such numbers without context shows the “depth” of your understanding.

  443. Sean says:
    @Harold Smith

    There is an obvious motive for Israel shooting up the Liberty and pretending it was a mistake. Not only is there a lack of motive for blowing up 7WTC, doing so was seriously damaging to what any 9/11 false flag plot must have been trying to achieve. A demolition of 7 WTC would require pre placing of explosives and wiring, and so would mean it was plannned beforehand as a part of the 9/11 false flag, but the collapse of 7WTC , which unlike 1 and 2 WTC (the Towers) had not been hit by a plane, was highly counter-productive to the aim of convincing the public that both Towers had been brought down in a attack by Arab suicide terrorists using planes as missiles.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  444. Iris says:
    @Mike P

    Iris, if you look at your own graph, you will see that the energy/mass ratio is lower for Al/Fe2O3 than for TNT; my comparison was based on this ratio.

    You are looking at the wrong graph bar.

    Al/Fe2O3 family of composite materials, with 3.9 kiloJoules per gram to the left of the graph, is that of ordinary thermite, one that has been around for a long time and could, arguably, have been available to anybody, including Ben Laden.

    Nano-thermite was an experimental explosive still under development in 2001, and the Nine Eleven truthers have proved by experiment (right of the graph) that it is more powerful than TNT (in kJ/gr terms).

    It is important not to obfuscate this fact: who could have hade access to an explosive substance still under development?

    No wonder people look towards “the only democracy in the ME” with accusative eyes: it has a consistent story of stealing and appropriating all new weaponery developed by the US.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  445. @Sean

    Why on earth a conspiracy would blow up 7 WTC and discredit their own core deception is something I have got no credible anwer to.

    People keep making that comment as some sort of argument. Here’s a possibility.: They messed up. They got sloppy. Sumpin went wrong. They no doubt intended to “crash” a “plane” or whatever to dramatize the thing, but they bit off more than they could chew, and it never happened.

    It didn’t stop ’em from getting away with the crime, did it?

    • Agree: ChuckOrloski, L.K
    • Replies: @Sean
    , @Beefcake the Mighty
  446. @NoseytheDuke

    Exactly correct. The quibble about “falling into their own footprints” is a semantic ploy. The buildings came straight down. Whether or not all the debris remained within the foundation perimeters matters not in the least.

    The fact that large enough component parts were ejected far enough to damage other buildings across the street simply illustrates the irrefutable fact that there were explosions which couldn’t have resulted from an airplane colliding with two of the buildings.

    These benighted souls who are still strenuously arguing for the TV version of events have nothing else to present other than little ploys like quibbling over terminology. All of the actual evidence is against the TV version which was sloppily presented on 9/11/01 and in the days following.

    Anyone who watched the news reporting on network TV and didn’t react with skepticism is simply too gullible and uninformed to present an opinion, especially if they continue to believe the fantasyland version of events that official outlets are still stubbornly defending.

    • Agree: Mike P
  447. Mike P says:
    @Iris

    You are looking at the wrong graph bar.

    The number given for Al/Fe2O3 (4 kJ per gram) assumes that the reaction goes to completion. (I just did the calculation myself to verify.) As long as we assume that the WTC chips contained the same reactants, but no other, this is the theoretical maximum. You will notice that the bars given for the “WTC chips” 1 to 4 are quite different; I suggest that this reflects experimental uncertainty (the chips were very small) rather than actual differences in chemical composition.

    For TNT, the same number (4 kJ/g) is quoted as a minimum, but with combustion in air, or when augmented with other oxygen-supplying additives, it will be substantially higher. But even allowing that the energy may be no greater, the explosive force of TNT or similar organic explosives will be much greater due to the production of gas in the reaction.

    I am puzzled as to why you would insist that nanothermite was the only explosive/incendiary used. The unequivocal demonstration of nanothermite is all the smoking gun we need, but the perpetrators would certainly have used any additional explosives they saw fit. It is a purely technical question that does not change the political meaning of the event.

    • Replies: @j2
  448. @Cesca

    Yes, I understand your points. I agree that zionists are only one of the elite groups who benefit from an ongoing war.

  449. Mike P says:
    @Harold Smith

    Excellent insight, Harold.

  450. Mike P says:
    @Sparkon

    (my bold)

    WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette

    That link leads to some forum page, and the links from there to the purported original study (if it ever existed) are dead. My link works, and that study shows unequivocally that the material in question reacted swiftly and with substantial release of energy when heated to 420 degrees centigrade. Painted steel does not do that.

    All the evidence shows that all three buildings (but let’s not forget WTC6) were rigged for explosion beforehand and successfully exploded on the same day. We can quibble over technical details until the cows come home, but that won’t change the political significance one iota.

  451. Sean says:
    @jacques sheete

    People keep making that comment as some sort of argument.

    No. By far the most common contention about what the collapse of 7 WTC proves is the precise opposite to what I am arguing. The most popular argument is the one Sabrosky actually makes (7WTC was not hit by a plane and so it must have been a controlled demolition that brought it down).

    They got sloppy. Sumpin went wrong.

    To crash a plane into the much smaller and more dificult target of 7WTC well below the top floors would be a feat hardly consistant with crazy Arabs, and 7WTC would have to be done first because of the smoke. From the perspective of a false flag plot 7WTC would be a relatively low value target (and pulling a lot of exposure on Silverstein), yet if it was a controlled demolition it must have been carefully planned months in advance and extensively wired andprepped well beforehand. All this and then no one booked the plane. Please!

    ….but they bit off more than they could chew,

    Alex Jones can swallow a lot.

  452. @jacques sheete

    Yes. Some conspiracy theories are indeed flawed if not absurd, but few are any more ridiculous than the official story. Ultimately 9-11 was a grand mind-fuck, with a lot of different themes/plots going on. A very overlooked piece of the puzzle is building #6, which was bizarrely hollowed out. Whatever happened that day, it was far too weird to be explained by Arabs with box cutters and some dude dying of renal cancer directing the operation from a cave in Afghanistan.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
  453. j2 says:
    @Mike P

    “The number given for Al/Fe2O3 (4 kJ per gram) assumes that the reaction goes to completion. (I just did the calculation myself to verify.) As long as we assume that the WTC chips contained the same reactants, but no other, this is the theoretical maximum.”

    Mike P, I am a bit confused with your comment and also with the diagram. Chemicals that gives oxygen, like Fe2O2, are added in order to speed up the reaction. You can burn things with air oxygen, but for explosives you add something to give the oxygen in order to speed it up to get an explosion. What matters is not the energy in Joules but the power in Watts, that is, high explosives differ from normal explosives by having a larger detonation velocity. Thus, it is detonation velocity one should look at, not Joules. Then, often, very finely grained mixture reacts much faster than a coarser mixture.

    • Replies: @Mike P
  454. Incitatus says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    “For the record, FB put you back in your little box after you disingenuously attempted to draw parallels between a fire damaged, steel re-enforced concrete framed, medium height structure and the steel framed, skyscraper structures that were destroyed on 9/11…”

    Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida [24-floor high-rise in Sao Paulo] collapsed 2 May 2018 in a spectacular fire. It was described as a “modernist building…built between 1961 and 1968 by Morse & Bierrenbach [on] a plot of 650 m2…[with] 12,000 m2 (130,000 sq ft) of internal space. The structure of the building was metal with concrete slabs.” Significance? Collapse seems to contradict two Truther tenets:
    • Steel structures cannot collapse due to fire;
    • Building collapse on footprint indicates demolition;

    https://metro.co.uk/2018/05/01/residential-tower-block-collapses-huge-fire-rips-building-7511628/

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Edificio+Wilton+Paes+de+Almeida%2c+u-tube&&view=detail&mid=A7AB474C5153CFB26F56A7AB474C5153CFB26F56&&FORM=VRDGAR

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edif%C3%ADcio_Wilton_Paes_de_Almeida

    Structural failure occurred in ninety (90) minutes. The fire is now thought to have started due to “a short-circuit in a power extension that had microwave, TV and refrigerator connected on it, on 5th floor.” The fuel source comprised squatter furnishings.

    FB insisted:

    “Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida was NOT a steel frame building…the vertical columns are of concrete reinforced with rebar.”
    -[#699 19aug18]

    My reply:

    “If columns were reinforced concrete, as you insist, it’s even more surprising collapse occurred. Concrete is much more resistant to fire. As freshman structures students know. 24-storey Grenfell Tower in London (no sprinklers) is reinforced concrete. It’s still standing.”
    -[#714 19aug18]

    FB never explained his inconsistency, nor why structural steel requires fireproofing and concrete doesn’t. You weighed in with:

    “With all of your supposed qualifications you’ve contributed little more than falsehoods, disinformation and your snide, old queen “humour” while skrik, tac, FB, geokat62, Cloak And Dagger, LK and many, many more are engaged in a good faith exchange about a matter that is important. You’re exposed as a fraud and a phoney.”
    -[#1051 28aug18]

    My response:

    “Before any official postmortem FB argues Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida is totally concrete (columns, beams, slabs), thus not relevant to WTC 1+2 (steel). Here’s the thing. Concrete is more fire-resistant (a term FB didn’t know) than steel. That’s why steel requires applied fireproofing in all codes. If EWPdA is all concrete it’s even MORE relevant to WTC.”

    “EWPdA wasn’t hit by a plane. Touched off by a gas leak, fueled by squatter furnishings. Burned and collapsed on footprint. If all-concrete, it’s worse for 911truthers. A more fire-resistant high-rise failure on-footprint without demo? Troll FB was too stupid to realize his mistake. Never answered why 24-storey concrete Grenfell Tower in London didn’t collapse (asked several times).”
    -[#1057 29aug18]

    Source of the fire aside, nothing’s changed. Still waiting for answers, Nosey. It’s pretty simple.

    Kindly recap where “FB put [me] back in [my] little box”. Feel free to consult the “record”:

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/why-confronting-israel-is-important/#comments

    “FB resorts to extreme profanity when angered”

    Why Nosey? Isn’t he a ‘professional’?

    Trolls routinely adopt insulting smears. Gins up the naïve, covers a desperate lack of expertise. The more insults, the more desperate.

    Is “anger” why you can’t get through one exchange without petty insults? Why are you so angry?

    Are your insults (“disingenuous…Inchworm…IDI…fraud…phony…queen”) intended as a “good faith exchange”? Aren’t you simply rallying like-minded believers against all doubt, all heresy? A frantic attempt to compel unthinking belief?

    Are you a troll? Give us a hint.

    “I…have always maintained support for the cause of those whom I consider to be true American patriots”

    Like Major Tetley in the Ox-Bow Incident? Couldn’t lynch the ‘rustlers’ soon enough.

    You’re a kindred spirit.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  455. @Saggy

    The Truthers’ version of events? Which version? You trolls have slung the Truther label around so widely that you’ve branded everyone who has even voiced doubt in your silly conspiracy theory as a Truther.

    What is “preposterous on its face” is the silly scenario in which airplanes flown by people who can’t fly an airplane somehow strike two buildings and then those buildings suddenly fall straight down for no discernible reason. What makes this idea even more ridiculous is that another nearby building suddenly falls straight down as well without having been hit by a plane.

    You people were saying this same shit on Free Republic the day after the magical collapses were described on TV, and that was before anyone had even come up with any alternate ideas on how and why the 3 buildings simply fell down.

    Prepare yourself for the possibility that nobody believes your fairytale any more. Too much time has passed and too much evidence has surfaced for your ridiculous story to sustain itself.

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Amber Dekstris
  456. Incitatus says:
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    [Use blockquotes rather than dramatic bolding if you want your comments published.]

    [MORE]

    “Inzi-shithead has also repeatedly tried to use the example of that collapsed South American building- that local authorities had publicly warned about previously as an unstable disaster in the waiting – to support the official line on 9-11.”

    Kindly elaborate (with links) structural conditions “local authorities had publicly warned about” in Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida.

    How do those warnings (if they exist) pertain to structural failure due to fire and non-demo collapse on footprint?

    “Inzi-shithead…Truly a dishonest shithead”

    BM the intellectual.

    Didn’t get the memo? Insults betray inability of legitimate rebuttal.

    In the end, it was all FB had. And, so it seems, it’s all you have.

    Any progress on your Aktion-T4 “involuntary assisted suicide’ explanation?

    • Replies: @Iris
  457. @Sean

    You’re changing the subject. I was addressing the issue of “risk” (vis-a-vis control of the government); now you want to talk about “motive.” The possible motives involved in the demolition of WTC7, for example, are irrelevant when the perpetrators know that there will be no real investigation, but I’ll entertain your red herring.

    “There is an obvious motive for Israel shooting up the Liberty and pretending it was a mistake.”

    I disagree. The motives of demonically evil people – such as the people we’re dealing with here – are often far from “obvious.” We can only speculate as to a motive.

    Regardless of the motive, the attackers of the USS Liberty knew beforehand that there was a chance they would fail. In light of this, they had to have some very strong reason to believe that there would be no meaningful investigation into their crime if it all went badly; otherwise they simply wouldn’t have attempted it.

    “Not only is there a lack of motive for blowing up 7WTC…”

    LOL! Stop right there; that’s just a bare assertion. You could make the same argument in favor of a posthumous pardon for Jeffrey Dahmer: “Not only is there a lack of motive for drilling holes in peoples’ heads and pouring hydrochloric acid into the holes…”

    Anyway, the demolition of WTC7 may have been a nice payback to Silverstein for his trouble; whether or not you acknowledge them, there are several possibilities.

    “…doing so was seriously damaging to what any 9/11 false flag plot must have been trying to achieve.”

    ROTFL! Seriously? That’s just another bare assertion. Once again you could say the same thing regarding Jeffrey Dahmer: “Drilling holes in people’ heads and pouring hydrochloric acid into the holes was seriously damaging to what Dahmer must have been trying to achieve.”

    Let’s face it the “official” 9/11 narrative (including that of the ‘anthrax attacks’) was collectively preposterous; one more fantastic coincidence added on to the pile wouldn’t matter.

    “A demolition of 7 WTC would require pre placing of explosives and wiring, and so would mean it was plannned beforehand as a part of the 9/11 false flag…”

    Well of course it was.

    “…but the collapse of 7WTC , which unlike 1 and 2 WTC (the Towers) had not been hit by a plane, was highly counter-productive to the aim of convincing the public that both Towers had been brought down in a attack by Arab suicide terrorists using planes as missiles.”

    Or so says you in yet another highly subjective, rankly speculative, bare assertion. But if “the public” can be fed the story that 19 Arab hijackers with box cutters can accomplish superhuman feats of terror, for example, then why can’t “the public” be fed a story that a piece of debris from the “collapsing” North tower struck WTC7, causing a fire which brought it down?

    • Replies: @Sean
  458. Incitatus says:
    @ChuckOrloski

    “Regarding my explaining engineer FB’s argument, who the fuck do you think you are to tell me what to do, InZitatus the Builder? Ha-ha-ha! (zzzZigh)”

    Your original lament and my reply:

    “You’re fortunate no commenters here recall how the engineer, “‘FB,” took you to the woodshed on the topic of 9/11 and in particular, the principles of “heat transfer.”

    Why not refresh our memories? Tell us the relevance of “principles of heat transfer”…While you’re at it, explain why structural steel, thought by FB more fire resistant than concrete, requires applied fireproofing.

    Well?

    “Uh, btw, how did you like my homemade Polish joke which appears above?”

    Thanks Chuck. Always love a good joke. Keep working on one.

    • Replies: @ChuckOrloski
  459. Mike P says:
    @Twodees Partain

    The Truthers’ version of events? Which version? You trolls have slung the Truther label around so widely

    That of all things they chose to make “truth” into a dirty word tells you all you need to know about these people.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  460. @Sparkon

    “So no thermate, thermite, or nanothermite could have blown the twin towers apart and reduced much of their mass to dust to the point where there are no debris heaps “in their respective footprints.”

    Then what did?

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @headrick
  461. Mike P says:
    @j2

    “The number given for Al/Fe2O3 (4 kJ per gram) assumes that the reaction goes to completion. (I just did the calculation myself to verify.) As long as we assume that the WTC chips contained the same reactants, but no other, this is the theoretical maximum.”

    Mike P, I am a bit confused with your comment and also with the diagram.

    The reaction is: 2 Al + Fe2O3 -> Al2O3 + 2 Fe

    Since aluminium binds oxygen more tightly than iron does, the reaction releases energy. The amount of energy can be calculated as the difference of the respective energies of formation of the two metal oxides from the elements (Fe and O2, and Al and O2, respectively), which you can find tabulated in reference works.

    With the organic explosives, it is a bit trickier, since they are a bit short of oxygen; this means that combustion will be incomplete, and it is not self-evident what the exact mixture of reaction products will be.

    The diagram was supplied by Iris, but it simply gave reaction energies per weight and also per volume of the different substances. Thermite is denser than the organic explosives, so it has high energy per volume, but middling to low energy per mass.

    Chemicals that gives oxygen, like Fe2O2, are added in order to speed up the reaction.

    In this case, Fe2O3 is not a catalyst but a reactant – it gives up the oxygen to Al and is consumed in proportion to the Al2O3 generated.

    You are right that detonation velocities matter, but they are more dependent on particle size and other variables than energy is. However, this is beyond my pay grade. I am no expert on explosives and don’t want to pretend I am, but only wanted to point out a few things that can be inferred from very basic chemical considerations.

    • Replies: @j2
  462. j2 says:
    @Mike P

    “You are right that detonation velocities matter, but they are more dependent on particle size and other variables than energy is.”

    Thanks for your answer. I know the reaction. So, the diagram has the energy released by the reaction. That does not say if it explodes and how destructive the explosion is. My knowledge of explosives is limited to some conference lectures I listened long ago, mainly of improvised road side bombs, but I searched for denotation velocity nanothermite and found this presentation:
    http://www.serendipity.li/wot/high_explosive_nanothermite_more_bark_than_bite.pdf
    I have not read it, not to say checked it, but he seems to get the denotation velocity
    895 m/s for nanothermite

    That is not impressive. TNT is about 7000 m/s and high explosives are over 10,000 m/s. If it is only 700 m/s, then one can say that the stuff explodes but you do not bring a skyscraper down with it. You would need far too much of that stuff. I think already Iris’ favorite underground nuke is better, but I have not looked at it yet. It will be some time before I get there.

    • Replies: @Mike P
    , @Harold Smith
    , @Sean
  463. Iris says:
    @Harold Smith

    Then what did?

    Three deep underground nuclear explosions , each of at least 50kT equivalent TNT, and more probably in the order of 100kT TNT.

  464. I also noticed the absence in that manifesto about Zionist complicity in open borders and the Anti-White movement. Plus, the original reports (try to save those original reports cuz they have a tendency of disappearing later), said other people were involved and one report even named the guy but did not picture him. The other one was a woman. My guess is Torrant was selected, even beyond his ignorant understanding, to be an active shooter and blamed. He was even traveling to many nations prior and visited Israel.

    Right before the Norway shooting by the coward, Brevick, Norway had come out in favor of more Palestinian rights and 2 state solution.

    NZ had a run in with the Jews earlier as well, a few years ago I think it was. Brevick was also spewing out the same exact agenda as Torrant.

    I’m 99.9% sure Zionists were involved. The governments surely know, but most likely go along with agenda out of fear.

    • Agree: Mike P
  465. Iris says:
    @Incitatus

    Kindly elaborate (with links) structural conditions “local authorities had publicly warned about” in Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida.

    The disastrous condition in which this building was prior to the fire had been indeed long identified by Sao Paulo safety authorities, who failed to vacate it and were later publicly blamed for the casualties.

    This fact was unequivocally reported in the most “orthodox”, mainstream, zionist-controlled French press:

    https://www.lemonde.fr/ameriques/article/2018/06/01/tragedie-sociale-et-architecturale-au-c-ur-de-sao-paulo_5307847_3222.html

    https://www.lepoint.fr/monde/bresil-fin-des-recherches-apres-l-incendie-d-une-tour-a-sao-paulo-13-05-2018-2218027_24.php

  466. Mike P says:
    @j2

    The point of the nanothermite is precisely that unlike TNT it does not immediately dissipate its energy into a rapidly expanding cloud, but keeps it concentrated long enough to reach very high temperature and melt/cut through steel.

    As I said earlier, I suspect that other explosives (TNT or similar) were used as well, but these simply didn’t leave the kinds of traces the nanothermite did. “Nanothermite vs high explosives” is a false dichotomy.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    , @j2
  467. Incitatus says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Any poor ‘expertise’ on Nosey is unwelcomely derived from his routine pathetic heckling. His playbook (with eager acolytes) is to silence all opposition to insidious deep-state, sky-is-falling criminal conspiracies. Which, upon questioning, comprise you-tube or cut-and-paste nonsense. When that doesn’t suffice, petty insults flow. Skepticism seems to have made me his death-star.

    Nosey distinguishes himself with an arrogant aristocratic tone. He revels in living “in the land down under” but confides “I am legally an Aussie and choose to live in Australia but am never mistaken to be one.” Marie Antoinette couldn’t say it better. He instantly knew better about the NZ shooter (Konspiracy, Konspiracy, Konspiracy).

    Genuine scholarship (nobiliuty?) evades his posts (little more than paranoid belief and insults). Pride persists in daddy’s Bentleys (“one at a time”). That seems Nosey’s only accomplishment. He mentioned pater’s trade and service in North Africa in posts, along with the usual UR ‘WW2 was Woodie, Winnie, Frankie’ routine. Struck me at the time as odd, given the contradictions and walk-on-water screen demeanor. Needless to say, I could well be wrong and await his correction.

    “thanks for helping to demolish the sick Sandy Hook conspiracy theory”

    Thank Alex Jones. Folded like a cheap suit in hot weather. Very definition of scum-bag.

    Have a cousin in Newtown CT, site of Sandy Hook. Know the parent of a flight attendant on American FL11 on 911. Had clients in the WTC.

    Enough said.

    Nosey and his acolytes are no different from Alex Jones.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  468. After that horrible shooting at the synogogue, where people as old as 90 were mass murdered by another Coward, who only helped the Anti-white movement, I went to a Website of a local Synogogue to see if there was a donation page, as I wanted to donate (there ended up being one on go-fund-me) . I ended up in a youth page where high school kids were being offered large sums of money to write on the Holocaust. So, this is one of the other main ways they keep this stuff going.

  469. @Iris

    Thank you for your candour in disclosing the source of your faith based opinions. My provisional rating of architectsandengineersfor911truth
    with veteranstoday, codoh, and IHR means that I react to your assertions of mixed theory and fact much as I do to someone who is repeating the teachings of church, mosque or temple that they grew up with. Specifically, I don’t think the competing 911 conspiracy theories can advance toward resolution until the assertion that the WTC had to have been the subject of controlled demolitions is put to rest. Nothing you say because your preferred source says it will have any impact on that.

  470. @jfk

    Good video. Sad. but a must watch/listen. Thanks for sharing.

  471. Anonymous[243] • Disclaimer says:
    @NoseytheDuke

    Yours is a fantasy view of those Ron might have named: totally delusional. You, or rather those like you who display a little more mental energy and stamina than you, even if no more measured or courteous, are what he had in mind.

  472. Incitatus says:

    Dear moderator,

    “Use blockquotes rather than dramatic bolding if you want your comments published.”

    Please publish guidance on comments. Pull no punches, have no fear.

    I currently have 981 comments, 250,600 words.

    Have similar warnings been issued to:
    • NoseytheDuke: 2531 comments, 171400 words;
    • Beefcake: 2233 comments, 76700 words;
    • ChuckOrlaski: 2622 comments, 288400 words;
    • Jacues/Jacques Sheet: 8215 comments, 730200 words;
    • Wizard of Oz: 7747 comments, 800400 words;

    Please explain.

    [Stop using so much dramatic bolding if you want your comments published. If others do the same, they’ll get the same warning.]

  473. @Iris

    Thank you. He’s aware of this of course, this kind of information has been posted in response to his dishonest claims (that this fire and collapse has relevance to 9-11) before, to no avail. Like I said, he’s a dishonest piece of shit, even by hasbara standards.

    • Agree: Iris, ChuckOrloski
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
  474. @Sean

    >You and thousands of those who think like you, are accusing identified people of committting mass murder with impunity.

    News to me. I don’t recall accusing “identified people” at all.

    Might want to keep those schizoid tendencies in check, Dr. Sean.

  475. @Incitatus

    LOL, you probably know people who were in Auschwitz, too.

    • Replies: @Incitatus
  476. @Mike P

    I think they used high explosives in those places amenable to the same and thermite elsewhere, i.e., in places where high explosive cutter charges would’ve been inefficient, impractical or impossible for some reason. To quote from US Patent 7555986:

    “This thermite-based method will allow operators to penetrate a material in timeframes similar to explosive shape charges without the safety concerns and security risks associated with explosives. In addition, the sustained duration of a thermite jet will more effectively handle discontinuities and interfaces that normally disrupt and dissipate explosively driven shape charge jets. When a linear shaped charge is used for cutting steel on a steel bridge demolition project, a large degree of preparation work must be undertaken to ensure a successful cut or penetration. A “preconditioning” process involves removing overlapped plates and areas of reinforcement with a conventional cutting torch. This process is time consuming, expensive, and dangerous. Conversely, the sustained jet of a thermite charge offers improved performance over multi-plate materials with limited or substantially no preconditioning. The thermite charge’s sustained jet also affords a greater assurance in cutting plates of varying thickness, layered plate configurations, and any supporting or reinforcing members that may exist in the middle or on the backside of a material. While the projected thermite charge particle stream is a slower reaction than that of an explosively driven jet, it is very fast from the perspective of the operator. The anticipated timing for material penetration is typically on the order of hundreds of milliseconds.”

    • Agree: Mike P
  477. @Wizard of Oz

    One of reason for the Jews targeting the world trade center that you never hear is that by destroying these huge office buildings they just increased the value of the existing Jew owned New York office space. Also the world trade center was not near full occupancy and I believe it was no longer a high value office address so instead of going through the costly and difficult process of legally demolishing them, just do a false flag.
    So as the saying goes they killed at least 2 birds with one stone.

  478. Sparkon says:
    @Incitatus

    Collapse seems to contradict two Truther tenets:

    • Steel structures cannot collapse due to fire;
    • Building collapse on footprint indicates demolition;

    Actually, that’s not quite it, but nice strawman.

    The argument is that before 9/11 there was no precedent for steel-framed high rise structures collapsing due to fire. Those “steel buildings” exist only in your imagination. In fact, quite a few steel-framed structures have sustained severe fires that burned for hours like a torch virtually from top to bottom so that the entire building was consumed in flames, but did not collapse, like the fairly recent Mandarin Hotel fire in Beijing, but including also several earlier high rise conflagrations in LA, Philly, Madrid, and elsewhere.

    Edifício Wilton Paes de Almeida that collapsed after a severe blaze on May 2nd 2018 was not a steel-framed building. Rather it was built using what is called a curtain wall style of architecture where the vertical support columns are inset from the building’s exterior wall so that almost the entire facade can be rendered in glass.

    By contrast, WTC 7 was a steel-framed building, but it did not sustain any severe fires, nor was it hit by an airplane or flying pixels either one on 9/11 to explain or justify its collapse. Possibly WTC 7 was meant to come down simultaneously with WTC 1, but there was some technical glitch that caused a delay with its demolition, or perhaps there was video of a jetliner flying into WTC 7, but for some reason it wasn’t broadcast. That might explain why 9/11 investigators complained to a House panel in early 2002 that the networks refused to give them the videos that hadn’t been broadcast.

    Anyway, the cherished collapse on footprint may be a signature of a classic controlled demolition, but obviously the destruction of WTC 1 and WTC 2 did not conform to any classic precedent since there was no precedent at all for demolishing a structure of that size and type of construction, and in any event, as the photos I’ve posted above show, there is no debris heap in the footprint of either tower, so the question is not what caused the twin towers to collapse, but rather the question is what blew the twin towers to smithereens?

  479. @j2

    “That is not impressive. TNT is about 7000 m/s and high explosives are over 10,000 m/s.”

    Actually TNT is a high explosive.

    “If it is only 700 m/s, then one can say that the stuff explodes but you do not bring a skyscraper down with it. You would need far too much of that stuff. I think already Iris’ favorite underground nuke is better, but I have not looked at it yet. It will be some time before I get there.”

    They may have used both conventional explosives and thermite. Check out US patent# 7555986.

  480. Sean says:
    @j2

    Sounds like a very loud bang.

  481. annamaria says:
    @Agent76

    The traitorous Cheney, a rotten corpse that never had a soul.

  482. @Incitatus

    InZitatus The Builder wants me to take a position on the technical issues he embarrassingly rhubarbed with the U.R.-commenter engineer, FB. (zzZigh)

    No, don’t hold your breath? I do not allow myself to pretend expertise on topics & events when such is absent.

    Also, & fyi, I adhere to Iris’s mature & wise guideline, regarding commenters here at U.R. who write either anonymously or with quirky names, 🤔 & minus professional certification/experience documentation, they proceed to make themselves legendary scientists, engineers, descendants of Confederate Civil War Generals, et al.

    For one example, voila, you, “Incitatus”! 🤗

    Again, I keep faith Mr. FB returns and again takes you to the woodshed.

    Lastly, Southern🇮🇱Man, I leave you with the common sense of Iris who intelligently wrote: “… it is the “9/11 Architects and Engineers collective” one should get their information from. Their credentials are verifiable, their sources are open to the public.”

    Post scriptum: At least my Polish joke was original and offered under my real name, fucker.

  483. annamaria says:
    @republic

    The Brown University is an obedient American institution. Why don’t you look at the numbers provided by The Lancet?
    Food for thought: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/unworthy-victims-western-wars-have-killed-four-million-muslims-1990

    The mass death was seemingly intended. Among items banned by the UN sanctions were chemicals and equipment essential for Iraq’s national water treatment system. A secret US Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) document discovered by Professor Thomas Nagy of the School of Business at George Washington University amounted, he said, to “an early blueprint for genocide against the people of Iraq”. …

    Undisputed UN figures show that 1.7 million Iraqi civilians died due to the West’s brutal sanctions regime, half of whom were children.

    A retired biochemist at La Trobe University in Melbourne, Polya concludes that total avoidable Afghan deaths since 2001 under ongoing war and occupation-imposed deprivation amount to around 3 million people, about 900,000 of whom are infants under five.

    The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(17)30469-2/fulltext

    Since March, 2011, the Syrian civil war has lowered life expectancy by as much as 20 years.

    https://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2017/09/27/our-own-crimes-are-worse-than-those-of-our-ancestors-yes-slavery-was-bad-but-did-you-know-you-just-killed-32-million-muslims/

    Dr. Gideon Polya, a leading expert in avoidable mortality and comparative crimes against humanity, has written of “the horrendous carnage of the US War on Terror involving the deaths of 32 million Muslims abroad by violence or imposed deprivation.” He estimates that the US “war on terror” has killed about five million Muslims directly by violence, and another 27 million through deprivation and other indirect effects.

  484. Sean says:
    @Harold Smith

    This is a post on Sabrosky and he is unequivical that the collapse of 7WTC is proof of controlled demolitions on it and the WTC towers.

    If he is correct about a false flag demolitions, the two big ones on the Towers hit by planes went swimingly for the conspiracy, but it was certainly a very big mistake of them to take 7WTC down. I agree and am in fact doubling down on Sabrosky’s assertion. I think it is too big of a mistake for it to be credible.

  485. Ah yes, Alex Jones, the conspiracy theory debunkers’ favorite conspiracy theorist. Care to guess the ONE topic he won’t open his mouth about?

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Mike P
  486. @Iris

    I think three 50 or 100 kt nukes would’ve taken out all of New York City and then some.

    (BTW don’t forget that the structures themselves were massive stores of potential energy. A quick search reveals a mass of about 4.5 x10^8 kg and a height of about 415 meters for the South tower, which could potentially release up to 9.1×10^11 joules of energy, which is approximately equal to the energy of 219 tons of TNT, or something like that).

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @j2
  487. Incitatus says:
    @Iris

    Iris,

    “The disastrous condition in whic