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Sex Differences in Intelligence in Nigeria
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african-teenagers3 (1)

There is nothing like sex differences in intelligence to put you on the wrong side of half the population. The story so far is that the standard academic opinion on sex differences in intelligence is that there aren’t any, or that they are small, or that the few that exist counterbalance each other. Women are a bit more verbal, men are a bit more mechanical and spatial, but these differences are nothing to write home about, not that men are likely to write home to anybody, tending to leave that pastime to women.

There is agreement among these same researchers that despite equality in means there is a sex difference in standard deviations: women are somewhat more closely clustered around the mean, men more scattered to the world’s imagined corners, with all the variety of an untidy room. There are more extremely foolish and extremely bright men than extremely foolish and extremely bright women.

http://www.unz.com/jthompson/are-girls-too-normal-sex-differences-in/

Like all agreed positions, there are some discrepant findings. For example, it may be a sampling issue, but the usual sex difference in standard deviations does not show up in Romania.

http://www.unz.com/jthompson/no-sex-differences-in-romania

Furthermore, as you may have read in my last post “Women’s brains”, when a large sample of people have their brains scanned, men are 3.75 IQ points brighter than the women, but there is no difference between the two on the standard deviations of intelligence, so that goes against the general pattern of the findings.

Richard Lynn (1994) argued that some of this confusion arises because so many tests of intelligence are carried out on school age children, and since girls mature faster than boys, so they lead in intelligence initially, but when boys finally mature at roughly 15 year of age, men end up a little brighter than women, by about 4 IQ points. This finding has been supported by various studies, though some find male advantage sooner in child development.

Now a new study has been published which shows a male advantage appearing by the age of 10 in Nigeria.

Testing Lynn’s Theory of Sex Differences in Intelligence in a Large Sample of Nigerian School-Aged Children and Adolescents (N >11,000) using Raven’s Standard Progressive Matrices Plus
Yoon-Mi Hur, Mokpo National University, Jeonnam, South Korea
Jan te Nijenhuis, University of Amsterdam, The Netherlands,
Hoe-UK Jeong, Mokpo National University, Jeonnam, South Korea
MANKIND QUARTERLY 2017 57:3 428-437

Corresponding author: Yoon-Mi Hur, PhD, ymhur@mokpo.ac.kr

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3c4TxciNeJZT3BLN2FrMGE3RVE

The authors say:

However, Liu and Lynn (2011) observed a consistent male advantage in the Full Scale IQ scores at ages as young as 5 to 6 years in a Chinese sample, and on spatial ability tests of the Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence (WPPSI) among children aged four and five years in China, Japan, and US. The magnitudes of sex differences were inconsistent as well. While Lynn and Irwing’s meta-analysis demonstrated an average sex difference of 0.33d, two large-scale studies (Lynn & Kanazawa, 2011; Rojahn & Naglieri, 2006) converged to indicate that although sex differences followed the developmental pattern as Lynn (1994, 1999) suggested, the differences after puberty were less than 0.12d and thus concluded that the differences were practically insignificant.

While sex differences in cognitive abilities have been extensively studied in Europeans, Americans, and Asians, there are only a few reports on sex differences in cognitive abilities among Africans. Lynn (2002) administered the Raven’s SPM to 3,979 15- to 16-year-olds in secondary schools in South Africa and found that males obtained a higher mean equivalent to 0.16d among 15-year olds and to 0.31d among 16-year-olds, suggesting that the sex difference increases with age. However, these differences were not consistent across ethnic groups in the study sample. More recently, Bakhiet et al. (2015) analyzed scores of the SPM in 7226 students aged from 6 to 18 years in Sudan. Females tended to perform slightly better than males on the total score up to age 11 years, with a highest d of -.12. From the age of 12 years onwards, however, a male advantage began to appear even though the magnitudes of sex differences were generally moderate ranging from d = .10 to d = .20 with an exception of d = .66 for 17-yearolds.

The present study consisted of 11,164 students (mean age = 13.5, SD = 2.6 years) drawn from three separate samples in the Nigerian twin-and-sibling studies. This sample is far larger than all previous intelligence test results put together, indeed, almost 7 times as large as the best studies previously available. More attention was paid to sampling than ever before. Currently, it is the definitive study of school age Nigerian intelligence.

The children were drawn from public schools, and education officials were involved in picking representative ones, and this was done in Lagos and in Abuja Capital Territory. It may have left out both elite schools and the unschooled, so the exclusions are probably counter-balanced. Intelligence was measured using Raven’s matrices, the best validated and widely used non-verbal intelligence test.

The SPM+ consists of 60 matrix items divided into five sets (A, B, C, D, & E) constructed to become progressively more difficult moving from set A to E. Validity and reliabilities of the SPM+ have been well established (Raven, 2008). As the SPM+ is a non-verbal test, it has commonly been used to assess sex differences in cognitive abilities in diverse populations with different languages and cultural backgrounds.

By the way, if you look at item difficulties on SPM overall, children of all genetic backgrounds have difficulties with the same items (with only 3 items out of 60 showing slight deviations, in two cases Africans having somewhat more difficulty and in the last case Europeans having more difficulty). This means that different genetic groups can have almost identical error patterns while having very different total scores. It is a power difference, not an operating system difference. We can look at those arguments later, in another post.

Anyway, here are the scores for boys and girls in Nigeria.

Nigerian sex differences

The pattern of sex differences is a little hard to see, so here it is in a simple graph:

Nigerian boys and girls graph

As you can now see clearly, (SPM+ scores on the Y axis, age on the X axis) male advantage is evident by age 10 and increases with age. So, this is another finding which strengthens Lynn (1994) and in this sample puts the age of male advantage back to 10 years of age. This might suggest that Africans mature faster than Europeans, for which there is some evidence, but it seems to be part of a bigger picture of early male advantage in general intelligence. Measured at age 18-19 when students are entering the workforce, or higher education, this is a massive 7 IQ point male advantage. If one takes a broader view, and takes the almost 4000 strong sample of 15 to 19 year olds, the difference is still a 5 IQ point male advantage.

Turning to standard deviations, the average for the whole sample is males 9.2 females 8.6. Clearly, women are slightly more normal. Looking only at the 15 to 19 year olds, the average male standard deviation is 9, the average female standard deviation 8.6 The general pattern of greater male variability is sustained in this sample, though the difference is small.

The authors issue a caution about their findings:

More studies need to be carried out so that a meta-analysis can be performed (Schmidt, 1992), which will allow us to make strong conclusions and examine whether sex differences in cognitive abilities are moderated by ethnic or racial groups. The World Economic Forum (2011) determined that in Nigeria, gender gaps in education, economic empowerment and political participation remain. Moreover, cultural and religious influences foster the maintenance of a ‘son preference’ within the country, which may also influence teachers’ attitudes and behaviors towards boys versus girls. These influences should also be taken into account in future studies.

What does all this mean for Nigerian men and women? If access to professional jobs is based solely on mental ability, then setting a SPM+ cutoff point at 39 (roughly two standard deviations above the mean) you will find that 80% of those top jobs will go to men. So, a fair distribution of employment will seem to favour men by 4 to 1.

Finally, though not discussed by these authors, what do these results mean for Nigeria?

The Standard Progressive Matrices have been the most widely used test in cross cultural studies. Despite an ever-present worry that any test may be culturally biased, close examination on the contrary reveals that the test items show the same characteristics despite the genetics of the test takers.It is as good a test of intelligence as it is possible to apply to different cultures.

Do the results from this massive sample change our view of Nigerian intelligence? Previous studies, based on far smaller samples, with raise the usual doubts about representativeness, had suggested a Nigerian national IQ of about 69, with one sample up to 75. This definite sample comes up with a result of IQ 70 and I think should be considered the best estimate of Nigerian IQ.

Is this result credible, given Nigerian accomplishments? I think we must always question that, and look for discrepant achievements, but I think we probably do not have to revise this estimate, though we will discuss that later, in another post.

 
• Category: Science • Tags: Africans, IQ, Nigeria 
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  1. Seeing how this ‘indicator’ is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don’t think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    So in your world maturation is purely environmental?
    , @Anon
    That conclusion isn't in any way warranted. For example, girls mature sooner, so there is an age at which many will be taller than their male counterparts. However, at the time of final maturity boys will be approximately 5 inches taller on average. Would it be appropriate to say that the height difference between males and females is purely environmental based on a previous measurement before maturity? Clearly not. Male/female height differences are strongly genetic. You have provided no valid reason to suggest that the male/female IQ difference is in any way environmental other than simply stating that you think it is. The data, and common sense, suggest a genetic link.
    , @AnotherDad

    Seeing how this ‘indicator’ is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don’t think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.
     
    Wow. Doesn't leave "any doubt".

    Not like anything biological happens with boys and girls between nine and adulthood.

    Perhaps the dumbest comment i've ever read on Unz which is really saying something.
    , @Santoculto
    I think it's purely environmental because...
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  2. @Mao Cheng Ji
    Seeing how this 'indicator' is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don't think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.

    So in your world maturation is purely environmental?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    Depends on what you mean by 'maturation'. The mental state, yes, definitely. Say, you're locked in a dark sound-proof closet at the age of 9 and kept there for 10 years. When they let out, what kind of 'maturation' will you have?
  3. This definite sample comes up with a result of IQ 70 and I think should be considered the best estimate of Nigerian IQ.

    Can you elaborate on how you derived a mean IQ of 70 from their results? Are you able to derive an SD value as well?

    The reference I found on this topic only gave a range of Raven/IQ conversions from 36/85 to 60/134
    http://epm.sagepub.com/content/48/4/1091 Table 2
    One thing in that reference I found surprising is that SPM and APM only correlated 0.587
    Is that a typical result? That seems low for two tests which are so similar.

    Wicherts et al. 2010 looks like a better reference for our purposes: Raven’s test performance of sub-Saharan Africans: Average performance, psychometric properties, and the Flynn Effect

    Table 1 gives an overview of the previous studies. Your point about better sampling in this study is important.

    Appendix A discusses converting raw scores to IQ, but doesn’t actually say how to do it. Is that information proprietary?

    Any thoughts of how Raven’s being relatively subject to the Flynn Effect (which seems not to have happened in Africa yet) might affect the conclusions we can draw from these analyses?

    Rushton and Skuy 2000 Performance on Raven’s Matrices by African and White University Students in South Africa provides a more selected SPM comparison sample (this sample is included in Wicherts 2010).

    From the Rushton paper we have:

    The SPM is usually regarded as a good measure of the non-verbal component of
    general intelligence not bound by culturally specific information.

    Is it possible that the SPM understates African IQ relative to a more verbal IQ test? That seems like a reasonable hypothesis given Black verbal fluency, but I have no idea how to estimate an effect size.

    Figure 1 of the Rushton paper shows an interesting spike for African (non-white AFAICT) scores near the ceiling of the SPM. Any idea what is going on there? Who are those people?

    Is this result credible, given Nigerian accomplishments? I think we must always question that, and look for discrepant achievements, but I think we probably do not have to revise this estimate, though we will discuss that later, in another post.

    I think this result combined with accomplishments provides evidence for there being subpopulations with different mean IQs. I would expect the private school Nigerians to undergo testing as part of their schooling (is this a reasonable expectation?). Does anyone have access to those numbers? Are there any statistics for Nigerian school status (non/public/private) by tribe?

    Low-cost Private Education: Impacts on Achieving Universal Primary Education
    provides some public/private school numbers and other information for Nigeria. Page 114 notes that comparative examination performance data could not be obtained from the authorities (interesting…). There are pages missing in the preview, but the book appears fairly available at university libraries for those who have access.
    My suspicion would be we could learn something by looking for clusters of high scorers in private schools.

    This presentation has some useful background, but no test scores: HIGHER EDUCATION STATISTICS- NIGERIA EXPERIENCE IN DATA COLLECTION

    This book has some interesting commentary on elite private schools in Nigeria (Their test scores would be fascinating, surely someone somewhere is bragging about the results? Thoughtless bragging is a great way to find otherwise hidden information): Elite Education: International perspectives

    This is probably a good list of places to look: https://buzznigeria.com/top-23-most-expensive-secondary-schools-in-nigeria-the-fees-are-really-mind-blowing/

    From that list (#9) here are test scores (unfortunately I have no idea how the “West African Secondary Examinations” are normed) for what looks like a particularly competitive school:

    http://www.loyolajesuit.org/result_stats.htm

    Looking forward to your future posts on these topics.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Emil Kirkegaard
    You need the Raven norms from the manual for children. The study you mention is for adults only, hence the lack of range. I can't find an internet copy of the right manual, but I know that Lynn, Becker etc. have a copy. Presumably James got one from them, or has a copy himself.
    , @James Thompson
    Thanks for all your points. I was intending to get into these issues in another full post, particularly on item analysis of Raven's tests and their characteristics as culture fair tests. I also need to post on presumed Nigerian exceptionalism.
    In the mean time, a more up to date reference than Wicherts is Heiner Rindermann "African cognitive ability: Research, results, divergences and recommendations." Personality and Individual Differences 55(3):229–233 · July 2013
    DOI: 10.1016/j.paid.2012.06.022
    Raven does not always publish relevant data, which is a nuisance.
    A more verbal test would help, but it is harder to ensure that they are culturally fair.
    There is still a case that any genetic group may have specific skills which would be revealed by new tests. However, we need to find these skills before we can add them in to our cross-cultural comparisons.
    Hope to turn to this after a few weeks.
    , @Anonymous Nephew
    Nigerian fraudsters are among the best marketers on the planet, but I guess they have a large population so there will be a few bright boys even with a 70 average. Aren't the Ibo (now Igbo - I can't keep up) said to be of higher average IQ?

    Maybe the smartest fractions are most likely to end up in the UK/US, so we get a distorted picture. For example, I only know one Ghanaian, an Ashanti, and he's very smart.
    , @phil
    Regarding the Flynn effect in Africa:

    If you take all of Wicherts' African IQ data going back to the 1930s (adjusted by Wicherts for Flynn effects), there is no clear trend line. If the Flynn effect had not really started in Africa, there would be a falling trend in the Flynn-adjusted scores. But there is no falling trend.

    Looking ahead, the Flynn effect in Africa seems likely to continue, whereas it is stalling out or going into reverse in Western Europe and North America. Thus, the gap between Western and African scores should narrow to some degree in the years ahead. However, contra Wicherts, there is no evidence at this point that African scores will one day equal those in the West, let alone those in Northeast Asia.
  4. For example, it may be a sampling issue, but the usual sex difference in standard deviations does not show up in Romania.

    Given the averaging effect of having two (potentially different) X chromosomes operational in your body, this seems unlikely. (The impact on dosage dependent proteins …)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Am I right to take you as saying that, to the extent a measured attribute is the product of genetic information in the X chromosome the sd for that attribute is liksly tl be lower amongst females than males because the female version of the attribute will be an average of two sets of genetic causes of which one will usually be closer to the population average than the other is?

    What you say about dosage dependent proteins needs elaboration for the laity.
  5. @AP
    So in your world maturation is purely environmental?

    Depends on what you mean by ‘maturation’. The mental state, yes, definitely. Say, you’re locked in a dark sound-proof closet at the age of 9 and kept there for 10 years. When they let out, what kind of ‘maturation’ will you have?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    AP's point, which is valid, is that age differences do not necessarily indicate a lack of innate difference. For example, male muscular hypertrophy doesn't happen until later in age as well, but it doesn't mean that its purely environmental.
    , @AP
    And if you are not fed adequately fed you will be short. So?
  6. @Mao Cheng Ji
    Depends on what you mean by 'maturation'. The mental state, yes, definitely. Say, you're locked in a dark sound-proof closet at the age of 9 and kept there for 10 years. When they let out, what kind of 'maturation' will you have?

    AP’s point, which is valid, is that age differences do not necessarily indicate a lack of innate difference. For example, male muscular hypertrophy doesn’t happen until later in age as well, but it doesn’t mean that its purely environmental.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    For example, male muscular hypertrophy doesn’t happen until later in age as well, but it doesn’t mean that its purely environmental.
     
    That's not the issue. Anything is possible of course, but it seems clear that the idea that ability to solve logical puzzles (so-called 'intelligence') is gender-dependent suffers a big blow from this chart. Boys and girls are equally capable, and then, as socially-constructed gender roles kick in, it starts diverging. That's what I see on this chart, anyway. Obviously doctrinaires will insist on the doctrinal explanation...
  7. @Mao Cheng Ji
    Depends on what you mean by 'maturation'. The mental state, yes, definitely. Say, you're locked in a dark sound-proof closet at the age of 9 and kept there for 10 years. When they let out, what kind of 'maturation' will you have?

    And if you are not fed adequately fed you will be short. So?

    Read More
  8. @res

    This definite sample comes up with a result of IQ 70 and I think should be considered the best estimate of Nigerian IQ.

     

    Can you elaborate on how you derived a mean IQ of 70 from their results? Are you able to derive an SD value as well?

    The reference I found on this topic only gave a range of Raven/IQ conversions from 36/85 to 60/134
    http://epm.sagepub.com/content/48/4/1091 Table 2
    One thing in that reference I found surprising is that SPM and APM only correlated 0.587
    Is that a typical result? That seems low for two tests which are so similar.

    Wicherts et al. 2010 looks like a better reference for our purposes: Raven's test performance of sub-Saharan Africans: Average performance, psychometric properties, and the Flynn Effect

    Table 1 gives an overview of the previous studies. Your point about better sampling in this study is important.

    Appendix A discusses converting raw scores to IQ, but doesn't actually say how to do it. Is that information proprietary?

    Any thoughts of how Raven's being relatively subject to the Flynn Effect (which seems not to have happened in Africa yet) might affect the conclusions we can draw from these analyses?

    Rushton and Skuy 2000 Performance on Raven's Matrices by African and White University Students in South Africa provides a more selected SPM comparison sample (this sample is included in Wicherts 2010).

    From the Rushton paper we have:

    The SPM is usually regarded as a good measure of the non-verbal component of
    general intelligence not bound by culturally specific information.
     
    Is it possible that the SPM understates African IQ relative to a more verbal IQ test? That seems like a reasonable hypothesis given Black verbal fluency, but I have no idea how to estimate an effect size.

    Figure 1 of the Rushton paper shows an interesting spike for African (non-white AFAICT) scores near the ceiling of the SPM. Any idea what is going on there? Who are those people?

    Is this result credible, given Nigerian accomplishments? I think we must always question that, and look for discrepant achievements, but I think we probably do not have to revise this estimate, though we will discuss that later, in another post.
     
    I think this result combined with accomplishments provides evidence for there being subpopulations with different mean IQs. I would expect the private school Nigerians to undergo testing as part of their schooling (is this a reasonable expectation?). Does anyone have access to those numbers? Are there any statistics for Nigerian school status (non/public/private) by tribe?

    Low-cost Private Education: Impacts on Achieving Universal Primary Education
    provides some public/private school numbers and other information for Nigeria. Page 114 notes that comparative examination performance data could not be obtained from the authorities (interesting...). There are pages missing in the preview, but the book appears fairly available at university libraries for those who have access.
    My suspicion would be we could learn something by looking for clusters of high scorers in private schools.

    This presentation has some useful background, but no test scores: HIGHER EDUCATION STATISTICS- NIGERIA EXPERIENCE IN DATA COLLECTION

    This book has some interesting commentary on elite private schools in Nigeria (Their test scores would be fascinating, surely someone somewhere is bragging about the results? Thoughtless bragging is a great way to find otherwise hidden information): Elite Education: International perspectives

    This is probably a good list of places to look: https://buzznigeria.com/top-23-most-expensive-secondary-schools-in-nigeria-the-fees-are-really-mind-blowing/

    From that list (#9) here are test scores (unfortunately I have no idea how the "West African Secondary Examinations" are normed) for what looks like a particularly competitive school:
    http://www.loyolajesuit.org/result_stats.htm

    Looking forward to your future posts on these topics.

    You need the Raven norms from the manual for children. The study you mention is for adults only, hence the lack of range. I can’t find an internet copy of the right manual, but I know that Lynn, Becker etc. have a copy. Presumably James got one from them, or has a copy himself.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    Thanks!
    , @Johan Meyer
    If/Once you find the manual, could you give an estimate of the Flynn effect in that sample?
  9. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Mao Cheng Ji
    Seeing how this 'indicator' is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don't think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.

    That conclusion isn’t in any way warranted. For example, girls mature sooner, so there is an age at which many will be taller than their male counterparts. However, at the time of final maturity boys will be approximately 5 inches taller on average. Would it be appropriate to say that the height difference between males and females is purely environmental based on a previous measurement before maturity? Clearly not. Male/female height differences are strongly genetic. You have provided no valid reason to suggest that the male/female IQ difference is in any way environmental other than simply stating that you think it is. The data, and common sense, suggest a genetic link.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AP
    He has a pattern of posting nonsense.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    He does seem to have some ztrong prejudices but I suppose there could be environmental causes of you include social influences in societies with important differences in the way bous and girlz are regarded, taught and conditioned.
  10. @Emil Kirkegaard
    You need the Raven norms from the manual for children. The study you mention is for adults only, hence the lack of range. I can't find an internet copy of the right manual, but I know that Lynn, Becker etc. have a copy. Presumably James got one from them, or has a copy himself.

    Thanks!

    Read More
  11. @Anon
    That conclusion isn't in any way warranted. For example, girls mature sooner, so there is an age at which many will be taller than their male counterparts. However, at the time of final maturity boys will be approximately 5 inches taller on average. Would it be appropriate to say that the height difference between males and females is purely environmental based on a previous measurement before maturity? Clearly not. Male/female height differences are strongly genetic. You have provided no valid reason to suggest that the male/female IQ difference is in any way environmental other than simply stating that you think it is. The data, and common sense, suggest a genetic link.

    He has a pattern of posting nonsense.

    Read More
  12. @Daniel Chieh
    AP's point, which is valid, is that age differences do not necessarily indicate a lack of innate difference. For example, male muscular hypertrophy doesn't happen until later in age as well, but it doesn't mean that its purely environmental.

    For example, male muscular hypertrophy doesn’t happen until later in age as well, but it doesn’t mean that its purely environmental.

    That’s not the issue. Anything is possible of course, but it seems clear that the idea that ability to solve logical puzzles (so-called ‘intelligence’) is gender-dependent suffers a big blow from this chart. Boys and girls are equally capable, and then, as socially-constructed gender roles kick in, it starts diverging. That’s what I see on this chart, anyway. Obviously doctrinaires will insist on the doctrinal explanation…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    And there's absolutely no way that "socially constructed gender roles" would later also environmentally select for those who genetically have such skills. I mean, genetic co-evolution with environment is completely impossible.

    Yeah, do run with that idea.

    At any rate, brains don't stop developing and specializing significantly until at least twelve, then at a lesser rate into early adulthood. There's a lot of likelihood of sexual differentiation later in age, as I indicated with muscle hypertrophy.

    Biology usually doesn't develop the same when subjected to different chemicals or hormones. I mean, even a small but steady supply of lead causes significant divergences, why wouldn't larger and massive quantities of hormones?

    , @Harold
    Boys and girls are equally flat-chested, and then, as socially-constructed gender roles kick in, it starts diverging.
  13. I seem to get a lot of high IQ female Nigerian students (possibly Igbo, in most cases I don’t know), they seem brighter than my male Nigerian students on average. I don’t generally see this (female generally brighter than male) outside of sub-Saharan African students. With most other groups they’re not distinguishable; with Germanics the brightest tend to be male. So I wonder what’s going on; when I saw the title I assumed it would be talking about a ca 5 pt female advantage, not disadvantage. From some countries my students tend to be drawn from the elites, but my Nigerian students seem to be from mostly lower middle (white collar clerical) to middle-middle class backgrounds.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fredrik
    Not disputing your observation but I wonder if you have adjusted for 'personality'`? A lot of young diverse men behave in a way that isn't entirely compatible with the norms of white middle class persons. That can make the diverse young men appear more stupid than they are.
  14. Mr. Thompson,

    I have just come across the following research:

    If you have AA then you will have the highest dopamine, while GG results in the lowest dopamine. AG is somewhere in the middle.

    Either too little or too much Dopamine can decrease cognitive performance (R).

    Under stress, dopamine increases. High dopamine producers (AA) will perform worse under stress because they will have too much dopamine. Low dopamine producers (GG) will perform better because now they’ll have an optimal level.
    [...]
    COMT and Gender Effects

    COMT is decreased by estrogen (R), such that overall COMT activity in prefrontal cortex and other tissues is about 30% lower in females than in males (R). This diminished COMT activity translates to about 30% higher baseline Dopamine levels in females than males (R).

    Females have near optimal levels of baseline dopamine levels, but males having somewhat too low baseline dopamine, such that male performance improves when dopamine levels are slightly increased, whereas female performance does not.

    Therefore, having SNPs that result in lower COMT (such as the A allele for rs4680) will be more helpful for males, but not females. Indeed, males with lower COMT do, in fact, demonstrate improved performance on tasks dependent on the prefrontal cortex, whereas females do not (R).

    https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/24/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/

    Continental Differences

    G allele frequencies: East Asians have 71% G’s, Africans 69% G’s Americans 61% G’s, Europeans 48% G’s (R). So East Asians are going to be more likely to have GG vs Europeans.http://uswest.ensembl.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=22:19963248-19964248;v=rs4680;vdb=variation;vf=4468

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/#comment-1866207

    Correlation of the COMT Val158Met polymorphism with latitude and a hunter-gather lifestyle suggests culture–gene coevolution and selective pressure on cognition genes due to climate Piffer (2013)

    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/correlation-of-the-comt-val158met-polymorphism-with-latitude-and-a-hunter-gather-lifestyle-suggests-culturee28093gene-coevolution-and-selective-pressure-on-cognition-genes-due-to-climate.pdf

    However, COMT is only one of the many genes responsible for variation in cognition, although it is the best studied so far. Thus, it is probable that many other genes act along with COMT to explain cognitive and cultural differences. Particularly interesting is the relatively low frequency of COMT in East Asian populations (range 0.22–0.30), which contrasts with their reported higher IQ (105). In fact, a recent study (Wang et al., 2013) shows that the COMT polymorphism operates in the opposite fashion among Chinese subjects. In this population, the Vat allele was associated with better WM performance and greater hippocampal volume. The authors interpreted this surprising finding in terms of population-specific effects of gene–gene interaction.

    Is it possible, that males on avergae perform better than females and East Asian males perform better than European males on IQ tests, the SAT, exams, etc., because taking these tests is stressful, i.e., it increases a person’s dopamine levels, and since females and Europeans have higher baseline dopamine levels to begin with, they perform not as well under stress/pressure?:

    The Worrier (A)…Lower COMT, Higher Dopamine. (Met)
    AA is considered the ‘risk’ or ‘bad’ allele in part because people don’t do well with stress [...]
    Better cognitive function when not under stress: Better attention and processing of information (executive function). (R) However, realize that this one gene only accounts for 4% of the difference in executive function. The FAB exam tests executive function. GG scored an average of 16.0, GA 15.7 and AA 15.3. These scores are statistically significant, but not large.

    https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/24/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/#The_Good

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Correction: ...that males on *average* perform better than females...

    Love this conclusion!

    Why Girls Tend to Get Better Grades Than Boys Do

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/09/why-girls-get-better-grades-than-boys-do/380318/


    On the whole, boys approach schoolwork differently. They are more performance-oriented. Studying for and taking tests taps into their competitive instincts. For many boys, tests are quests that get their hearts pounding. Doing well on them is a public demonstration of excellence and an occasion for a high-five. In contrast, Kenney-Benson and some fellow academics provide evidence that the stress many girls experience in test situations can artificially lower their performance, giving a false reading of their true abilities. These researchers arrive at the following overarching conclusion: “The testing situation may underestimate girls’ abilities, but the classroom may underestimate boys’ abilities.”
     
  15. @res

    This definite sample comes up with a result of IQ 70 and I think should be considered the best estimate of Nigerian IQ.

     

    Can you elaborate on how you derived a mean IQ of 70 from their results? Are you able to derive an SD value as well?

    The reference I found on this topic only gave a range of Raven/IQ conversions from 36/85 to 60/134
    http://epm.sagepub.com/content/48/4/1091 Table 2
    One thing in that reference I found surprising is that SPM and APM only correlated 0.587
    Is that a typical result? That seems low for two tests which are so similar.

    Wicherts et al. 2010 looks like a better reference for our purposes: Raven's test performance of sub-Saharan Africans: Average performance, psychometric properties, and the Flynn Effect

    Table 1 gives an overview of the previous studies. Your point about better sampling in this study is important.

    Appendix A discusses converting raw scores to IQ, but doesn't actually say how to do it. Is that information proprietary?

    Any thoughts of how Raven's being relatively subject to the Flynn Effect (which seems not to have happened in Africa yet) might affect the conclusions we can draw from these analyses?

    Rushton and Skuy 2000 Performance on Raven's Matrices by African and White University Students in South Africa provides a more selected SPM comparison sample (this sample is included in Wicherts 2010).

    From the Rushton paper we have:

    The SPM is usually regarded as a good measure of the non-verbal component of
    general intelligence not bound by culturally specific information.
     
    Is it possible that the SPM understates African IQ relative to a more verbal IQ test? That seems like a reasonable hypothesis given Black verbal fluency, but I have no idea how to estimate an effect size.

    Figure 1 of the Rushton paper shows an interesting spike for African (non-white AFAICT) scores near the ceiling of the SPM. Any idea what is going on there? Who are those people?

    Is this result credible, given Nigerian accomplishments? I think we must always question that, and look for discrepant achievements, but I think we probably do not have to revise this estimate, though we will discuss that later, in another post.
     
    I think this result combined with accomplishments provides evidence for there being subpopulations with different mean IQs. I would expect the private school Nigerians to undergo testing as part of their schooling (is this a reasonable expectation?). Does anyone have access to those numbers? Are there any statistics for Nigerian school status (non/public/private) by tribe?

    Low-cost Private Education: Impacts on Achieving Universal Primary Education
    provides some public/private school numbers and other information for Nigeria. Page 114 notes that comparative examination performance data could not be obtained from the authorities (interesting...). There are pages missing in the preview, but the book appears fairly available at university libraries for those who have access.
    My suspicion would be we could learn something by looking for clusters of high scorers in private schools.

    This presentation has some useful background, but no test scores: HIGHER EDUCATION STATISTICS- NIGERIA EXPERIENCE IN DATA COLLECTION

    This book has some interesting commentary on elite private schools in Nigeria (Their test scores would be fascinating, surely someone somewhere is bragging about the results? Thoughtless bragging is a great way to find otherwise hidden information): Elite Education: International perspectives

    This is probably a good list of places to look: https://buzznigeria.com/top-23-most-expensive-secondary-schools-in-nigeria-the-fees-are-really-mind-blowing/

    From that list (#9) here are test scores (unfortunately I have no idea how the "West African Secondary Examinations" are normed) for what looks like a particularly competitive school:
    http://www.loyolajesuit.org/result_stats.htm

    Looking forward to your future posts on these topics.

    Thanks for all your points. I was intending to get into these issues in another full post, particularly on item analysis of Raven’s tests and their characteristics as culture fair tests. I also need to post on presumed Nigerian exceptionalism.
    In the mean time, a more up to date reference than Wicherts is Heiner Rindermann “African cognitive ability: Research, results, divergences and recommendations.” Personality and Individual Differences 55(3):229–233 · July 2013
    DOI: 10.1016/j.paid.2012.06.022
    Raven does not always publish relevant data, which is a nuisance.
    A more verbal test would help, but it is harder to ensure that they are culturally fair.
    There is still a case that any genetic group may have specific skills which would be revealed by new tests. However, we need to find these skills before we can add them in to our cross-cultural comparisons.
    Hope to turn to this after a few weeks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Yes please.... with particular reference to the gun that doesn't smoke (OK it seemed OK as it first bounced into ghe cortex) - I mean the odd fact that the Flynn effect shows up more on Raven's Matrices than on tests of vocabulary or simple numeracy. How can the more culturally determined abilities be less affected by the causes of the Flynn effect than the "culture fair"? That looms as a big question to me, and one that needs answering for the credit of those of us that think g and IQ matter.
  16. @Emil Kirkegaard
    You need the Raven norms from the manual for children. The study you mention is for adults only, hence the lack of range. I can't find an internet copy of the right manual, but I know that Lynn, Becker etc. have a copy. Presumably James got one from them, or has a copy himself.

    If/Once you find the manual, could you give an estimate of the Flynn effect in that sample?

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Thompson
    Will be posting up the latest Becker Edition of the Lynn database in a few weeks, with particular emphasis on STM results only, with a standard Flynn correction
  17. @res

    This definite sample comes up with a result of IQ 70 and I think should be considered the best estimate of Nigerian IQ.

     

    Can you elaborate on how you derived a mean IQ of 70 from their results? Are you able to derive an SD value as well?

    The reference I found on this topic only gave a range of Raven/IQ conversions from 36/85 to 60/134
    http://epm.sagepub.com/content/48/4/1091 Table 2
    One thing in that reference I found surprising is that SPM and APM only correlated 0.587
    Is that a typical result? That seems low for two tests which are so similar.

    Wicherts et al. 2010 looks like a better reference for our purposes: Raven's test performance of sub-Saharan Africans: Average performance, psychometric properties, and the Flynn Effect

    Table 1 gives an overview of the previous studies. Your point about better sampling in this study is important.

    Appendix A discusses converting raw scores to IQ, but doesn't actually say how to do it. Is that information proprietary?

    Any thoughts of how Raven's being relatively subject to the Flynn Effect (which seems not to have happened in Africa yet) might affect the conclusions we can draw from these analyses?

    Rushton and Skuy 2000 Performance on Raven's Matrices by African and White University Students in South Africa provides a more selected SPM comparison sample (this sample is included in Wicherts 2010).

    From the Rushton paper we have:

    The SPM is usually regarded as a good measure of the non-verbal component of
    general intelligence not bound by culturally specific information.
     
    Is it possible that the SPM understates African IQ relative to a more verbal IQ test? That seems like a reasonable hypothesis given Black verbal fluency, but I have no idea how to estimate an effect size.

    Figure 1 of the Rushton paper shows an interesting spike for African (non-white AFAICT) scores near the ceiling of the SPM. Any idea what is going on there? Who are those people?

    Is this result credible, given Nigerian accomplishments? I think we must always question that, and look for discrepant achievements, but I think we probably do not have to revise this estimate, though we will discuss that later, in another post.
     
    I think this result combined with accomplishments provides evidence for there being subpopulations with different mean IQs. I would expect the private school Nigerians to undergo testing as part of their schooling (is this a reasonable expectation?). Does anyone have access to those numbers? Are there any statistics for Nigerian school status (non/public/private) by tribe?

    Low-cost Private Education: Impacts on Achieving Universal Primary Education
    provides some public/private school numbers and other information for Nigeria. Page 114 notes that comparative examination performance data could not be obtained from the authorities (interesting...). There are pages missing in the preview, but the book appears fairly available at university libraries for those who have access.
    My suspicion would be we could learn something by looking for clusters of high scorers in private schools.

    This presentation has some useful background, but no test scores: HIGHER EDUCATION STATISTICS- NIGERIA EXPERIENCE IN DATA COLLECTION

    This book has some interesting commentary on elite private schools in Nigeria (Their test scores would be fascinating, surely someone somewhere is bragging about the results? Thoughtless bragging is a great way to find otherwise hidden information): Elite Education: International perspectives

    This is probably a good list of places to look: https://buzznigeria.com/top-23-most-expensive-secondary-schools-in-nigeria-the-fees-are-really-mind-blowing/

    From that list (#9) here are test scores (unfortunately I have no idea how the "West African Secondary Examinations" are normed) for what looks like a particularly competitive school:
    http://www.loyolajesuit.org/result_stats.htm

    Looking forward to your future posts on these topics.

    Nigerian fraudsters are among the best marketers on the planet, but I guess they have a large population so there will be a few bright boys even with a 70 average. Aren’t the Ibo (now Igbo – I can’t keep up) said to be of higher average IQ?

    Maybe the smartest fractions are most likely to end up in the UK/US, so we get a distorted picture. For example, I only know one Ghanaian, an Ashanti, and he’s very smart.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Thompson
    Agree that our personal experiences are most likely with elites who have left Africa. Intend to do a post calculating the smart fractions for all countries on which we have reasonable data. Heiner Rindermann has already done the bulk of the work, on the top 5% of the population in all countries.
  18. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    It is a power difference, not an operating system difference. We can look at those arguments later, in another post.

    Is this also true of white Whites and Chinese/Korean/Japanese?
    After reading Nisbett’s The geography of thought one would not expect that to be the case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Geography of Thought was fairly vague and inconclusive, though. You can read these conclusions that the IQ test has indeed managed to be "cultural independent" such that the background/detail differences in hereditary didn't matter here - which I think is fair, or that the difference is indeed only an artifact of language which is erased by a common language of Raven Matrices, as Nisbett somewhat suggested(which I think is buying far too much into the blank slate theory).
  19. @Johan Meyer
    If/Once you find the manual, could you give an estimate of the Flynn effect in that sample?

    Will be posting up the latest Becker Edition of the Lynn database in a few weeks, with particular emphasis on STM results only, with a standard Flynn correction

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I have read James Flynn's suggested explanations of the Flynn effect, Ron Unz's contribution in pointing to the nonsensical in some of the Lynn figures, and I have added quite a few of my own from antibiotics and anti-inflammatories to tuning in to quickfire radio comedy and electronic games, via test sophistication. But what I find difficult to believe and can see no explanation for is the Flynn effect being strongest in relation to abstract culture free tests like Raven's Matrices. Surely vocsbulsry e.g. would have to have improved more?

    A related point - because it concerns credibility and validity - is the need to back up these magnificently large samples with some teaching and testing that would be much less expensive. I mean that 200 of the tested thousands should be chosen at random and then sibjected to teaching (to the extent possible), practice and retesting over say three months. It would at least answer suspicion that the tests are flawed by the manner of administration and/or reporting and/or by very low test sophistication.

  20. @Anonymous Nephew
    Nigerian fraudsters are among the best marketers on the planet, but I guess they have a large population so there will be a few bright boys even with a 70 average. Aren't the Ibo (now Igbo - I can't keep up) said to be of higher average IQ?

    Maybe the smartest fractions are most likely to end up in the UK/US, so we get a distorted picture. For example, I only know one Ghanaian, an Ashanti, and he's very smart.

    Agree that our personal experiences are most likely with elites who have left Africa. Intend to do a post calculating the smart fractions for all countries on which we have reasonable data. Heiner Rindermann has already done the bulk of the work, on the top 5% of the population in all countries.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I was first introduced to the term Smart Fraction by the author of La Griffe du Lion posts and he said it was those above about 107 IQ. The "top 5% of the population of all [sic] countries" doesn't make sense in that context.
    , @phil
    Within each country, Rindermann has estimated the score level that the Top 5% of that country are able to exceed.
  21. @Mao Cheng Ji

    For example, male muscular hypertrophy doesn’t happen until later in age as well, but it doesn’t mean that its purely environmental.
     
    That's not the issue. Anything is possible of course, but it seems clear that the idea that ability to solve logical puzzles (so-called 'intelligence') is gender-dependent suffers a big blow from this chart. Boys and girls are equally capable, and then, as socially-constructed gender roles kick in, it starts diverging. That's what I see on this chart, anyway. Obviously doctrinaires will insist on the doctrinal explanation...

    And there’s absolutely no way that “socially constructed gender roles” would later also environmentally select for those who genetically have such skills. I mean, genetic co-evolution with environment is completely impossible.

    Yeah, do run with that idea.

    At any rate, brains don’t stop developing and specializing significantly until at least twelve, then at a lesser rate into early adulthood. There’s a lot of likelihood of sexual differentiation later in age, as I indicated with muscle hypertrophy.

    Biology usually doesn’t develop the same when subjected to different chemicals or hormones. I mean, even a small but steady supply of lead causes significant divergences, why wouldn’t larger and massive quantities of hormones?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    I mean, even a small but steady supply of lead causes significant divergences, why wouldn’t larger and massive quantities of hormones?
     
    I suppose a physical damage (a concussion) might make it more difficult to solve puzzles. A chemical that kills brain cells - sure. But hormones? I mean, sure, if they make you preoccupied with something else, not caring about tests. But that would be something different, no? It wouldn't look like this chart.
  22. @Anonymous

    It is a power difference, not an operating system difference. We can look at those arguments later, in another post.
     
    Is this also true of white Whites and Chinese/Korean/Japanese?
    After reading Nisbett's The geography of thought one would not expect that to be the case.

    Geography of Thought was fairly vague and inconclusive, though. You can read these conclusions that the IQ test has indeed managed to be “cultural independent” such that the background/detail differences in hereditary didn’t matter here – which I think is fair, or that the difference is indeed only an artifact of language which is erased by a common language of Raven Matrices, as Nisbett somewhat suggested(which I think is buying far too much into the blank slate theory).

    Read More
  23. @Daniel Chieh
    And there's absolutely no way that "socially constructed gender roles" would later also environmentally select for those who genetically have such skills. I mean, genetic co-evolution with environment is completely impossible.

    Yeah, do run with that idea.

    At any rate, brains don't stop developing and specializing significantly until at least twelve, then at a lesser rate into early adulthood. There's a lot of likelihood of sexual differentiation later in age, as I indicated with muscle hypertrophy.

    Biology usually doesn't develop the same when subjected to different chemicals or hormones. I mean, even a small but steady supply of lead causes significant divergences, why wouldn't larger and massive quantities of hormones?

    I mean, even a small but steady supply of lead causes significant divergences, why wouldn’t larger and massive quantities of hormones?

    I suppose a physical damage (a concussion) might make it more difficult to solve puzzles. A chemical that kills brain cells – sure. But hormones? I mean, sure, if they make you preoccupied with something else, not caring about tests. But that would be something different, no? It wouldn’t look like this chart.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Hormones directly affect neural chemicals which affect not only immediate behavior, but also long term changes, much as they can cause muscular hypertrophy. For example, elevated exposure to Provigil not only causes immediate and increased wakefulness and focus, but in the long time, may also downregulate states needed for creativity.

    On hormones themselves, exposure to oxytocin - very central to women - creates feelings of bonding and love - perhaps unpleasantly, its generated by stretching of vagina, such that feelings of fondness could appear both for birthing babies and being regularly raped by the same man. Its a good example of how its a simple hormones with powerful effects, as well as unintended side effects. Long term exposure to more or less testosterone can have similar effects.

    Biology isn't like a computer program that creates specific functions just for one role - its just all hacked together so as long as it mostly works. So, for example, your stomach uses strong acid to slightly break down food and to kill bacteria, even though it can also cause a host of other problems. Same thing goes for hormones, so as long as it slightly promotes more reproduction, it'll become an advantageous mutation(and humans are indeed sexually dimorphic). And social preferences do, pretty quickly, become biologically favorable as well - humans have become less violent, for example, partly because we've domesticated ourselves much as we have bred for less violent dogs, cattle, etc.

    Its often been explained that the human brain is kind of bolted together, with more novel and rational elements slapped on top of more "primitive" elements. It is so. And that's also why the notion of identical brains(or anything else) is pretty silly.

  24. @Mao Cheng Ji

    I mean, even a small but steady supply of lead causes significant divergences, why wouldn’t larger and massive quantities of hormones?
     
    I suppose a physical damage (a concussion) might make it more difficult to solve puzzles. A chemical that kills brain cells - sure. But hormones? I mean, sure, if they make you preoccupied with something else, not caring about tests. But that would be something different, no? It wouldn't look like this chart.

    Hormones directly affect neural chemicals which affect not only immediate behavior, but also long term changes, much as they can cause muscular hypertrophy. For example, elevated exposure to Provigil not only causes immediate and increased wakefulness and focus, but in the long time, may also downregulate states needed for creativity.

    On hormones themselves, exposure to oxytocin – very central to women – creates feelings of bonding and love – perhaps unpleasantly, its generated by stretching of vagina, such that feelings of fondness could appear both for birthing babies and being regularly raped by the same man. Its a good example of how its a simple hormones with powerful effects, as well as unintended side effects. Long term exposure to more or less testosterone can have similar effects.

    Biology isn’t like a computer program that creates specific functions just for one role – its just all hacked together so as long as it mostly works. So, for example, your stomach uses strong acid to slightly break down food and to kill bacteria, even though it can also cause a host of other problems. Same thing goes for hormones, so as long as it slightly promotes more reproduction, it’ll become an advantageous mutation(and humans are indeed sexually dimorphic). And social preferences do, pretty quickly, become biologically favorable as well – humans have become less violent, for example, partly because we’ve domesticated ourselves much as we have bred for less violent dogs, cattle, etc.

    Its often been explained that the human brain is kind of bolted together, with more novel and rational elements slapped on top of more “primitive” elements. It is so. And that’s also why the notion of identical brains(or anything else) is pretty silly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    The issue is not of 'identical brains'. The issue is the doctrine that a female brain is, on average, less 'intelligent' than a male brain.

    The chart shows that in Nigeria a 9 year-old female brain is, on average, just as 'intelligent' as a 9 year-old male brain.

    [Shouldn't this be treated as a very significant, very meaningful finding (by those who are into these things)?]

    The subsequent divergence could be easily attributed to socially constructed (albeit, I agree, prompted by biology) gender roles. This, imo, is the strongest hypothesis by far (fine, I take back my "no doubt whatsoever" @1). Instead, you keep insisting that the divergence is probably caused by hormones. Is this a fair description of our discussion so far?

    , @Santoculto
    When illibs say no have brain differences between sexes or it is socially construct "they want" to say: There is a fundamental model of human brain. All healthy men and women have exactly the same "things": memory areas, language/communication areas, visual spatial areas, etc... But because "cultural norms" (different selective pressures) women and men has differentiated one each other. In other words, men on avg are better in visual spatial skills not because it's intrinsic and immutable aspect of male nature but because this skills has been more selected among them. We have the same model of brain and because different selective/cultural pressures (as well ancient inherited patterns from primates) human groups have differentiate one each other.

    There are bio-culturally construct brains.

    Just repeat myself ^.^
  25. @Daniel Chieh
    Hormones directly affect neural chemicals which affect not only immediate behavior, but also long term changes, much as they can cause muscular hypertrophy. For example, elevated exposure to Provigil not only causes immediate and increased wakefulness and focus, but in the long time, may also downregulate states needed for creativity.

    On hormones themselves, exposure to oxytocin - very central to women - creates feelings of bonding and love - perhaps unpleasantly, its generated by stretching of vagina, such that feelings of fondness could appear both for birthing babies and being regularly raped by the same man. Its a good example of how its a simple hormones with powerful effects, as well as unintended side effects. Long term exposure to more or less testosterone can have similar effects.

    Biology isn't like a computer program that creates specific functions just for one role - its just all hacked together so as long as it mostly works. So, for example, your stomach uses strong acid to slightly break down food and to kill bacteria, even though it can also cause a host of other problems. Same thing goes for hormones, so as long as it slightly promotes more reproduction, it'll become an advantageous mutation(and humans are indeed sexually dimorphic). And social preferences do, pretty quickly, become biologically favorable as well - humans have become less violent, for example, partly because we've domesticated ourselves much as we have bred for less violent dogs, cattle, etc.

    Its often been explained that the human brain is kind of bolted together, with more novel and rational elements slapped on top of more "primitive" elements. It is so. And that's also why the notion of identical brains(or anything else) is pretty silly.

    The issue is not of ‘identical brains’. The issue is the doctrine that a female brain is, on average, less ‘intelligent’ than a male brain.

    The chart shows that in Nigeria a 9 year-old female brain is, on average, just as ‘intelligent’ as a 9 year-old male brain.

    [Shouldn't this be treated as a very significant, very meaningful finding (by those who are into these things)?]

    The subsequent divergence could be easily attributed to socially constructed (albeit, I agree, prompted by biology) gender roles. This, imo, is the strongest hypothesis by far (fine, I take back my “no doubt whatsoever” @1). Instead, you keep insisting that the divergence is probably caused by hormones. Is this a fair description of our discussion so far?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Close, however, my argument is that "socially constructed" roles will eventually select for biological reinforcement. The mechanism can be hormonal. Therefore, distinguishing between the two becomes fairly pointless: cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.

    For example, widespread and massive capital punishment laws in Western Europe seems to have reduced the prevalence of the "warrior gene" which triggers violence. This was a cultural change, which resulted in a biological change to fitness, by discriminating against violence in young men. Likewise, if intelligent women aren't having as many children, but "dumb girls" who effectively do all of the wrong things and end up getting accidentally pregnant a lot do, then being less intelligent is actually advantageous for a woman.

    And no, not really, the argument that similarity at young age indicates similarity at a later age is silly. Young chimpanzee infants are comparable to intelligence in many ways to young human infants, divergence happens later.

    , @Santoculto
    Female brain is not less intelligent just different. Logic is highly related with intelligence. Women are more affectively empathetic than cognitively empathetic while men tend to be otherwise. Man is not on avg "just" a hunter but also a engineer while woman has been selected to be more socially and emotionally smarter than man.

    We are talking about averages and different specializations caused by different selective pressures for both sexes.

    It's not a fixed feature still a feature. Some studies have showed similar patterns among primates. This seems a mammally construct, even more old than the appearance of the first human beings.

    Women has been continually selected to be good at "domestic" and social things but we can select more tom boys and sissies inverting this overall patterns if "eugenics" is trivial.
    , @Santoculto
    In Sweden we no have any barrier preventing women to do whatever they want but the same patterns can be found. One of the most illiberal country in the world and very conservative "country" as Nigeria showing the same patterns. In other hand seems very conservative Romania have little cognitive differences between sexes. (So it's expected higher % of Romanian female studying engineering.. Maybe a lot of Romanian tomboys as well Romanian homosexuals, or not)

    Yes seems there is implicit narrative there

    Men are invincibly smarter than women

    Because

    They score ~ 4 points higher than women
    Namely in spatial skills

    Have disproportionate rates of geniuses and other brighter types

    So .. In the end of day, men surpass women (+ historical of men achievements).

    Men are not invincibly smarter than women, period. Men and women are complementary because, on avg, what lacks in one exceed in other. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe would be better if men and women were more completed and not mutually dependent. My tip about wisdom, the advantages of both in one individual. If women are better to little details, nuances and men are better to big picture so why not this two gifts in one individual?

    Each male achievements can be related to each negative male achievements, period.

    It's not fixed or immutable, period.
    - it's not a fundamental feature of female nature, if it can be changed, period.

  26. @Mao Cheng Ji
    The issue is not of 'identical brains'. The issue is the doctrine that a female brain is, on average, less 'intelligent' than a male brain.

    The chart shows that in Nigeria a 9 year-old female brain is, on average, just as 'intelligent' as a 9 year-old male brain.

    [Shouldn't this be treated as a very significant, very meaningful finding (by those who are into these things)?]

    The subsequent divergence could be easily attributed to socially constructed (albeit, I agree, prompted by biology) gender roles. This, imo, is the strongest hypothesis by far (fine, I take back my "no doubt whatsoever" @1). Instead, you keep insisting that the divergence is probably caused by hormones. Is this a fair description of our discussion so far?

    Close, however, my argument is that “socially constructed” roles will eventually select for biological reinforcement. The mechanism can be hormonal. Therefore, distinguishing between the two becomes fairly pointless: cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.

    For example, widespread and massive capital punishment laws in Western Europe seems to have reduced the prevalence of the “warrior gene” which triggers violence. This was a cultural change, which resulted in a biological change to fitness, by discriminating against violence in young men. Likewise, if intelligent women aren’t having as many children, but “dumb girls” who effectively do all of the wrong things and end up getting accidentally pregnant a lot do, then being less intelligent is actually advantageous for a woman.

    And no, not really, the argument that similarity at young age indicates similarity at a later age is silly. Young chimpanzee infants are comparable to intelligence in many ways to young human infants, divergence happens later.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.
     
    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn't happen. I'm pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by 'biology' you mean 'psychology'.

    Human beings are, first and foremost, social animals. 75 years ago masses of Germans were acting like bloodthirsty animals. And then within the span of a few decades they were socially re-conditioned to act like placid domesticated animals. Don't tell me their biology had changed. The only thing that had changed was social environment.

    biological difference will inspire cultural roles
     
    Biological phenomena are the foundation, but they don't dictate cultural norms. The necessity for survival and for prosperity (economy) of the tribe dictates cultural norms.

    For example: in a small shrinking tribe abortion (or any other kind of refusal to procreate) should be tabooed, forbidden. But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do. So, yes, biology, but biology as means to an end, not biology as the destiny. And it's the same story with gender roles, I'm sure.
  27. @Mao Cheng Ji
    The issue is not of 'identical brains'. The issue is the doctrine that a female brain is, on average, less 'intelligent' than a male brain.

    The chart shows that in Nigeria a 9 year-old female brain is, on average, just as 'intelligent' as a 9 year-old male brain.

    [Shouldn't this be treated as a very significant, very meaningful finding (by those who are into these things)?]

    The subsequent divergence could be easily attributed to socially constructed (albeit, I agree, prompted by biology) gender roles. This, imo, is the strongest hypothesis by far (fine, I take back my "no doubt whatsoever" @1). Instead, you keep insisting that the divergence is probably caused by hormones. Is this a fair description of our discussion so far?

    Female brain is not less intelligent just different. Logic is highly related with intelligence. Women are more affectively empathetic than cognitively empathetic while men tend to be otherwise. Man is not on avg “just” a hunter but also a engineer while woman has been selected to be more socially and emotionally smarter than man.

    We are talking about averages and different specializations caused by different selective pressures for both sexes.

    It’s not a fixed feature still a feature. Some studies have showed similar patterns among primates. This seems a mammally construct, even more old than the appearance of the first human beings.

    Women has been continually selected to be good at “domestic” and social things but we can select more tom boys and sissies inverting this overall patterns if “eugenics” is trivial.

    Read More
  28. @Mao Cheng Ji
    The issue is not of 'identical brains'. The issue is the doctrine that a female brain is, on average, less 'intelligent' than a male brain.

    The chart shows that in Nigeria a 9 year-old female brain is, on average, just as 'intelligent' as a 9 year-old male brain.

    [Shouldn't this be treated as a very significant, very meaningful finding (by those who are into these things)?]

    The subsequent divergence could be easily attributed to socially constructed (albeit, I agree, prompted by biology) gender roles. This, imo, is the strongest hypothesis by far (fine, I take back my "no doubt whatsoever" @1). Instead, you keep insisting that the divergence is probably caused by hormones. Is this a fair description of our discussion so far?

    In Sweden we no have any barrier preventing women to do whatever they want but the same patterns can be found. One of the most illiberal country in the world and very conservative “country” as Nigeria showing the same patterns. In other hand seems very conservative Romania have little cognitive differences between sexes. (So it’s expected higher % of Romanian female studying engineering.. Maybe a lot of Romanian tomboys as well Romanian homosexuals, or not)

    Yes seems there is implicit narrative there

    Men are invincibly smarter than women

    Because

    They score ~ 4 points higher than women
    Namely in spatial skills

    Have disproportionate rates of geniuses and other brighter types

    So .. In the end of day, men surpass women (+ historical of men achievements).

    Men are not invincibly smarter than women, period. Men and women are complementary because, on avg, what lacks in one exceed in other. Maybe it’s a good thing, maybe would be better if men and women were more completed and not mutually dependent. My tip about wisdom, the advantages of both in one individual. If women are better to little details, nuances and men are better to big picture so why not this two gifts in one individual?

    Each male achievements can be related to each negative male achievements, period.

    It’s not fixed or immutable, period.
    - it’s not a fundamental feature of female nature, if it can be changed, period.

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  29. @Daniel Chieh
    Hormones directly affect neural chemicals which affect not only immediate behavior, but also long term changes, much as they can cause muscular hypertrophy. For example, elevated exposure to Provigil not only causes immediate and increased wakefulness and focus, but in the long time, may also downregulate states needed for creativity.

    On hormones themselves, exposure to oxytocin - very central to women - creates feelings of bonding and love - perhaps unpleasantly, its generated by stretching of vagina, such that feelings of fondness could appear both for birthing babies and being regularly raped by the same man. Its a good example of how its a simple hormones with powerful effects, as well as unintended side effects. Long term exposure to more or less testosterone can have similar effects.

    Biology isn't like a computer program that creates specific functions just for one role - its just all hacked together so as long as it mostly works. So, for example, your stomach uses strong acid to slightly break down food and to kill bacteria, even though it can also cause a host of other problems. Same thing goes for hormones, so as long as it slightly promotes more reproduction, it'll become an advantageous mutation(and humans are indeed sexually dimorphic). And social preferences do, pretty quickly, become biologically favorable as well - humans have become less violent, for example, partly because we've domesticated ourselves much as we have bred for less violent dogs, cattle, etc.

    Its often been explained that the human brain is kind of bolted together, with more novel and rational elements slapped on top of more "primitive" elements. It is so. And that's also why the notion of identical brains(or anything else) is pretty silly.

    When illibs say no have brain differences between sexes or it is socially construct “they want” to say: There is a fundamental model of human brain. All healthy men and women have exactly the same “things”: memory areas, language/communication areas, visual spatial areas, etc… But because “cultural norms” (different selective pressures) women and men has differentiated one each other. In other words, men on avg are better in visual spatial skills not because it’s intrinsic and immutable aspect of male nature but because this skills has been more selected among them. We have the same model of brain and because different selective/cultural pressures (as well ancient inherited patterns from primates) human groups have differentiate one each other.

    There are bio-culturally construct brains.

    Just repeat myself ^.^

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  30. @FKA Max
    Mr. Thompson,

    I have just come across the following research:


    If you have AA then you will have the highest dopamine, while GG results in the lowest dopamine. AG is somewhere in the middle.

    Either too little or too much Dopamine can decrease cognitive performance (R).

    Under stress, dopamine increases. High dopamine producers (AA) will perform worse under stress because they will have too much dopamine. Low dopamine producers (GG) will perform better because now they’ll have an optimal level.
    [...]
    COMT and Gender Effects

    COMT is decreased by estrogen (R), such that overall COMT activity in prefrontal cortex and other tissues is about 30% lower in females than in males (R). This diminished COMT activity translates to about 30% higher baseline Dopamine levels in females than males (R).

    Females have near optimal levels of baseline dopamine levels, but males having somewhat too low baseline dopamine, such that male performance improves when dopamine levels are slightly increased, whereas female performance does not.

    Therefore, having SNPs that result in lower COMT (such as the A allele for rs4680) will be more helpful for males, but not females. Indeed, males with lower COMT do, in fact, demonstrate improved performance on tasks dependent on the prefrontal cortex, whereas females do not (R).
     
    - https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/24/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/

    Continental Differences

    G allele frequencies: East Asians have 71% G’s, Africans 69% G’s Americans 61% G’s, Europeans 48% G’s (R). So East Asians are going to be more likely to have GG vs Europeans. - http://uswest.ensembl.org/Homo_sapiens/Variation/Population?db=core;r=22:19963248-19964248;v=rs4680;vdb=variation;vf=4468
     
    - http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/#comment-1866207

    Correlation of the COMT Val158Met polymorphism with latitude and a hunter-gather lifestyle suggests culture–gene coevolution and selective pressure on cognition genes due to climate Piffer (2013)

    https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/correlation-of-the-comt-val158met-polymorphism-with-latitude-and-a-hunter-gather-lifestyle-suggests-culturee28093gene-coevolution-and-selective-pressure-on-cognition-genes-due-to-climate.pdf

    However, COMT is only one of the many genes responsible for variation in cognition, although it is the best studied so far. Thus, it is probable that many other genes act along with COMT to explain cognitive and cultural differences. Particularly interesting is the relatively low frequency of COMT in East Asian populations (range 0.22–0.30), which contrasts with their reported higher IQ (105). In fact, a recent study (Wang et al., 2013) shows that the COMT polymorphism operates in the opposite fashion among Chinese subjects. In this population, the Vat allele was associated with better WM performance and greater hippocampal volume. The authors interpreted this surprising finding in terms of population-specific effects of gene–gene interaction.
     
    Is it possible, that males on avergae perform better than females and East Asian males perform better than European males on IQ tests, the SAT, exams, etc., because taking these tests is stressful, i.e., it increases a person's dopamine levels, and since females and Europeans have higher baseline dopamine levels to begin with, they perform not as well under stress/pressure?:

    The Worrier (A)…Lower COMT, Higher Dopamine. (Met)
    AA is considered the ‘risk’ or ‘bad’ allele in part because people don’t do well with stress [...]
    Better cognitive function when not under stress: Better attention and processing of information (executive function). (R) However, realize that this one gene only accounts for 4% of the difference in executive function. The FAB exam tests executive function. GG scored an average of 16.0, GA 15.7 and AA 15.3. These scores are statistically significant, but not large.
     
    - https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/24/worrier-warrior-explaining-rs4680comt-v158m-gene/#The_Good

    Correction: …that males on *average* perform better than females…

    Love this conclusion!

    Why Girls Tend to Get Better Grades Than Boys Do

    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/09/why-girls-get-better-grades-than-boys-do/380318/

    On the whole, boys approach schoolwork differently. They are more performance-oriented. Studying for and taking tests taps into their competitive instincts. For many boys, tests are quests that get their hearts pounding. Doing well on them is a public demonstration of excellence and an occasion for a high-five. In contrast, Kenney-Benson and some fellow academics provide evidence that the stress many girls experience in test situations can artificially lower their performance, giving a false reading of their true abilities. These researchers arrive at the following overarching conclusion: “The testing situation may underestimate girls’ abilities, but the classroom may underestimate boys’ abilities.”

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  31. Girls are married off at young ages in some parts of Nigeria. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/11/the-tragedy-of-nigerias-child-brides

    The Nigerian government made child marriage illegal in 2003, but according to campaigners from Girls Not Brides, 17% of girls in the country are still married before the age of 15. In the Muslim-dominated northwest, 48% of girls are married by the age of 15 and 78% are married by the time they hit 18. In Kibbe state, the average age of marriage for girls is just 11.

    Access to education is also unequal, by gender. It is not the case that a school will enroll all children of both genders at the same age.

    It is quite likely the difference in performance is influenced by the patterns of girls leaving school to be married. I would expect the smarter girls to be more desired as wives, at least by in-laws.

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  32. @Simon in London
    I seem to get a lot of high IQ female Nigerian students (possibly Igbo, in most cases I don't know), they seem brighter than my male Nigerian students on average. I don't generally see this (female generally brighter than male) outside of sub-Saharan African students. With most other groups they're not distinguishable; with Germanics the brightest tend to be male. So I wonder what's going on; when I saw the title I assumed it would be talking about a ca 5 pt female advantage, not disadvantage. From some countries my students tend to be drawn from the elites, but my Nigerian students seem to be from mostly lower middle (white collar clerical) to middle-middle class backgrounds.

    Not disputing your observation but I wonder if you have adjusted for ‘personality’`? A lot of young diverse men behave in a way that isn’t entirely compatible with the norms of white middle class persons. That can make the diverse young men appear more stupid than they are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simon in London
    That's not really a big issue for postgraduate African students in my field. I was going more by quality of academic work - Christian Nigerian female students tend to get Merits (60-69), Nigerian male students more typically get Passes (50-59). Nigerian female students tend to do notably well, better on average than any but NW & Italian European students I think (so better than Eastern & SE Europe and Spain), whereas male students are more typical.

    Black British undergraduates definitely can be boisterous, especially first year students. Male ones tend to do pretty well though, probably through selection - only the most motivated make it to University.
    , @Anonymous
    This is the truth. When you are looking at a minority population the women are always going to seem smarter than the men, assuming they don't practice extreme gender discrimination within their societies. Minority women will generally find it easier to adhere to the norms of the majority, and their better social and communication skills will enable them to overcome some of the handicaps posed by their minority-status. I think that's one of the reasons East Asian women seem so much smarter than East Asian men in the USA.

    Which again leads back to the fact that the ability to solve logical puzzles (aka IQ) is counting for less and less in this managerial and feminized world of ours. Verbal facility, energy, cheerfulness, charisma, fitting in and social cunning seem as important, if not more.
  33. @Daniel Chieh
    Close, however, my argument is that "socially constructed" roles will eventually select for biological reinforcement. The mechanism can be hormonal. Therefore, distinguishing between the two becomes fairly pointless: cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.

    For example, widespread and massive capital punishment laws in Western Europe seems to have reduced the prevalence of the "warrior gene" which triggers violence. This was a cultural change, which resulted in a biological change to fitness, by discriminating against violence in young men. Likewise, if intelligent women aren't having as many children, but "dumb girls" who effectively do all of the wrong things and end up getting accidentally pregnant a lot do, then being less intelligent is actually advantageous for a woman.

    And no, not really, the argument that similarity at young age indicates similarity at a later age is silly. Young chimpanzee infants are comparable to intelligence in many ways to young human infants, divergence happens later.

    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.

    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn’t happen. I’m pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by ‘biology’ you mean ‘psychology’.

    Human beings are, first and foremost, social animals. 75 years ago masses of Germans were acting like bloodthirsty animals. And then within the span of a few decades they were socially re-conditioned to act like placid domesticated animals. Don’t tell me their biology had changed. The only thing that had changed was social environment.

    biological difference will inspire cultural roles

    Biological phenomena are the foundation, but they don’t dictate cultural norms. The necessity for survival and for prosperity (economy) of the tribe dictates cultural norms.

    For example: in a small shrinking tribe abortion (or any other kind of refusal to procreate) should be tabooed, forbidden. But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do. So, yes, biology, but biology as means to an end, not biology as the destiny. And it’s the same story with gender roles, I’m sure.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Simon in London
    "To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog"

    No. Any variation in reproductive success by inheritable character trait will affect biology. Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.
    , @res


    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.
     
    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn’t happen. I’m pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by ‘biology’ you mean ‘psychology’.
     
    Do you know about sexual selection?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection

    Do you deny that what individuals consider attractive in the opposite sex is affected by culture?
    , @RaceRealist88
    "I’m pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology"

    What is gene-culture coevolution?

    You'd be interested in this book:

    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/dna-is-not-destiny-steven-j-heine/1123956915

    Just came out last month. I just finished it the other day. He makes some solid arguments.

    One thing he said is that all genes are height genes, then he claims that all genes are IQ genes and so looking for genes for either is stupid. Don't know what I think about that... Here is an excerpt:

    http://imgur.com/a/vIo4a

  34. @Peripatetic commenter

    For example, it may be a sampling issue, but the usual sex difference in standard deviations does not show up in Romania.
     
    Given the averaging effect of having two (potentially different) X chromosomes operational in your body, this seems unlikely. (The impact on dosage dependent proteins ...)

    Am I right to take you as saying that, to the extent a measured attribute is the product of genetic information in the X chromosome the sd for that attribute is liksly tl be lower amongst females than males because the female version of the attribute will be an average of two sets of genetic causes of which one will usually be closer to the population average than the other is?

    What you say about dosage dependent proteins needs elaboration for the laity.

    Read More
  35. @Anon
    That conclusion isn't in any way warranted. For example, girls mature sooner, so there is an age at which many will be taller than their male counterparts. However, at the time of final maturity boys will be approximately 5 inches taller on average. Would it be appropriate to say that the height difference between males and females is purely environmental based on a previous measurement before maturity? Clearly not. Male/female height differences are strongly genetic. You have provided no valid reason to suggest that the male/female IQ difference is in any way environmental other than simply stating that you think it is. The data, and common sense, suggest a genetic link.

    He does seem to have some ztrong prejudices but I suppose there could be environmental causes of you include social influences in societies with important differences in the way bous and girlz are regarded, taught and conditioned.

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  36. @James Thompson
    Agree that our personal experiences are most likely with elites who have left Africa. Intend to do a post calculating the smart fractions for all countries on which we have reasonable data. Heiner Rindermann has already done the bulk of the work, on the top 5% of the population in all countries.

    I was first introduced to the term Smart Fraction by the author of La Griffe du Lion posts and he said it was those above about 107 IQ. The “top 5% of the population of all [sic] countries” doesn’t make sense in that context.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Thompson
    Yes Griffe du Lion used that cutoff, and others have been proposed. There are various ways of calculating the "smart fraction" but the general finding, twice replicated, is that the smart fraction have a disproportionately positive impact on economic growth.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/is-smart-fraction-as-valuable-as
  37. @Fredrik
    Not disputing your observation but I wonder if you have adjusted for 'personality'`? A lot of young diverse men behave in a way that isn't entirely compatible with the norms of white middle class persons. That can make the diverse young men appear more stupid than they are.

    That’s not really a big issue for postgraduate African students in my field. I was going more by quality of academic work – Christian Nigerian female students tend to get Merits (60-69), Nigerian male students more typically get Passes (50-59). Nigerian female students tend to do notably well, better on average than any but NW & Italian European students I think (so better than Eastern & SE Europe and Spain), whereas male students are more typical.

    Black British undergraduates definitely can be boisterous, especially first year students. Male ones tend to do pretty well though, probably through selection – only the most motivated make it to University.

    Read More
  38. @Mao Cheng Ji

    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.
     
    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn't happen. I'm pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by 'biology' you mean 'psychology'.

    Human beings are, first and foremost, social animals. 75 years ago masses of Germans were acting like bloodthirsty animals. And then within the span of a few decades they were socially re-conditioned to act like placid domesticated animals. Don't tell me their biology had changed. The only thing that had changed was social environment.

    biological difference will inspire cultural roles
     
    Biological phenomena are the foundation, but they don't dictate cultural norms. The necessity for survival and for prosperity (economy) of the tribe dictates cultural norms.

    For example: in a small shrinking tribe abortion (or any other kind of refusal to procreate) should be tabooed, forbidden. But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do. So, yes, biology, but biology as means to an end, not biology as the destiny. And it's the same story with gender roles, I'm sure.

    “To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog”

    No. Any variation in reproductive success by inheritable character trait will affect biology. Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.
     
    I don't think so. Check for your confirmation bias.

    You get visible effects, people getting taller when they get more food, more dairy products; or heavier - with more sugar, less physical activity. But that's all purely environmental, no breeding.
  39. @James Thompson
    Will be posting up the latest Becker Edition of the Lynn database in a few weeks, with particular emphasis on STM results only, with a standard Flynn correction

    I have read James Flynn’s suggested explanations of the Flynn effect, Ron Unz’s contribution in pointing to the nonsensical in some of the Lynn figures, and I have added quite a few of my own from antibiotics and anti-inflammatories to tuning in to quickfire radio comedy and electronic games, via test sophistication. But what I find difficult to believe and can see no explanation for is the Flynn effect being strongest in relation to abstract culture free tests like Raven’s Matrices. Surely vocsbulsry e.g. would have to have improved more?

    A related point – because it concerns credibility and validity – is the need to back up these magnificently large samples with some teaching and testing that would be much less expensive. I mean that 200 of the tested thousands should be chosen at random and then sibjected to teaching (to the extent possible), practice and retesting over say three months. It would at least answer suspicion that the tests are flawed by the manner of administration and/or reporting and/or by very low test sophistication.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Thompson
    If you teach to a test you will probably get an improvement, also known as a practice effect. What is interesting is if there is an improvement in another, conceptually similar test on which students have not been trained. That effect rarely happens.
  40. @Simon in London
    "To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog"

    No. Any variation in reproductive success by inheritable character trait will affect biology. Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.

    Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.

    I don’t think so. Check for your confirmation bias.

    You get visible effects, people getting taller when they get more food, more dairy products; or heavier – with more sugar, less physical activity. But that’s all purely environmental, no breeding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    So, is it purely by accident that cattle-raising people have left descendants that are capable of digesting lactose past infancy? Or that the Nepalese have adaptations to living in high areas with reduced oxygen? What/who was the selective breeding that created sexual dimorphism in gorillas, who are huge in comparison in females?

    Cultural norms affect who lives, who dies, and who is more successful in life - when this success is correlated with reproductive success, it does indeed increase alleles in a population, basically biological change. Chimpanzees and bonobos are gentically almost identical and can probably breed, yet thanks to many generations of "cultural" norms, it has led to different biology after a few generations with the patriarchial chimpanzee culture/biology being much more violent, better at tool use, and far better at surviving. Humans evolved from chimpanzees and the similarities in culture and biology are not accidental.

    There's a lot of information on HBD here, but specially I recommend Jayman's pages on it which show a lot of detail on the studies. But for another example, though, horses all had regional differences even before they were bred specifically(controlled breeding only really happened by the Renaissance). But even during the medieval times, regional variations of horses were recognized(The Arab, the Spanish horse, etc) and this was at a time when there was really very little effort at selective breeding - the horses were mostly adapting to the "culture" they were put in, and it made for stronger horses in some areas, and smaller and smarter horses in others.

    You can maintain your belief in a blank slate if you wish, but its basically untrue. It makes very little sense from a biological perspective. Height differences across populations even after nutrition has normalized show that its a combination of both hereditary(biological) and environmental factors.

    , @gcochran
    Breeder's equation: if taller-than-average people have more children than average, the next generation will be taller. Equally true if for "taller" we substitute "fatter", "smarter", "paler", or"more nervous". Right now selection trends "dumber", about one IQ point a generation.

    Women are getting shorter.
    , @Santoculto
    NOTHING that is related with organic things is purely environmental.
  41. @Wizard of Oz
    I have read James Flynn's suggested explanations of the Flynn effect, Ron Unz's contribution in pointing to the nonsensical in some of the Lynn figures, and I have added quite a few of my own from antibiotics and anti-inflammatories to tuning in to quickfire radio comedy and electronic games, via test sophistication. But what I find difficult to believe and can see no explanation for is the Flynn effect being strongest in relation to abstract culture free tests like Raven's Matrices. Surely vocsbulsry e.g. would have to have improved more?

    A related point - because it concerns credibility and validity - is the need to back up these magnificently large samples with some teaching and testing that would be much less expensive. I mean that 200 of the tested thousands should be chosen at random and then sibjected to teaching (to the extent possible), practice and retesting over say three months. It would at least answer suspicion that the tests are flawed by the manner of administration and/or reporting and/or by very low test sophistication.

    If you teach to a test you will probably get an improvement, also known as a practice effect. What is interesting is if there is an improvement in another, conceptually similar test on which students have not been trained. That effect rarely happens.

    Read More
  42. @Wizard of Oz
    I was first introduced to the term Smart Fraction by the author of La Griffe du Lion posts and he said it was those above about 107 IQ. The "top 5% of the population of all [sic] countries" doesn't make sense in that context.

    Yes Griffe du Lion used that cutoff, and others have been proposed. There are various ways of calculating the “smart fraction” but the general finding, twice replicated, is that the smart fraction have a disproportionately positive impact on economic growth.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/is-smart-fraction-as-valuable-as

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  43. The same arguments.

    Yes humans can behave in different ways specially men!! But it don’t prove your points, aka behaviorism. What people must understand is that because all behaviors are more or less plastic it doesn’t mean it’s not genetic (or based on instinct). Illibs have a very caricature of genetics as if something is primarily genetic so it must be rigid.

    Most illibs seems is that people who think that is very bright in the moral and psychological departments…

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  44. Dear Dr. Thompson:
    I think this is an appropriate place to ask if Chanda Chisala,

    http://www.unz.com/author/chanda-chisala/

    is male or female ?
    I was unable to determine that from the corresponding posts on Unz Review.
    Thank you, I.f.f.U.

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Thompson
    Male
    , @res
    As Dr. Thompson said, male. For more information notice this from the bio at the end of his articles:

    Chanda Chisala, originally from Zambia, has been a John S. Knight Visiting Fellow at Stanford University, a Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution, and a Reagan-Fascell Fellowship at the National Endowment for Democracy.
     
    Then see http://jsk.stanford.edu/fellows/class-of-2009/chanda-chisala/
    His website is https://chandachisala.wordpress.com/about/

    It will be interesting to revisit this post of his in 10 (or fewer?) years: https://chandachisala.wordpress.com/2016/05/09/who-will-be-disappointed-with-genetic-findings-on-race-and-intelligence/
    I think his predictions there are more defensible than some of the things he says on the Unz Review. One that especially caught my eye was:

    my prediction is that the IQ genetic profile of Ashkenazi Jews will be closer to (at least some) SubSaharan African populations than to East Asians
     
    Note how vigorously he argues with me about the importance of African subpopulations here on Unz in recent posts. Of course, tribes were much more important two years ago for some reason: http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/?highlight=tribe
  45. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.
     
    I don't think so. Check for your confirmation bias.

    You get visible effects, people getting taller when they get more food, more dairy products; or heavier - with more sugar, less physical activity. But that's all purely environmental, no breeding.

    So, is it purely by accident that cattle-raising people have left descendants that are capable of digesting lactose past infancy? Or that the Nepalese have adaptations to living in high areas with reduced oxygen? What/who was the selective breeding that created sexual dimorphism in gorillas, who are huge in comparison in females?

    Cultural norms affect who lives, who dies, and who is more successful in life – when this success is correlated with reproductive success, it does indeed increase alleles in a population, basically biological change. Chimpanzees and bonobos are gentically almost identical and can probably breed, yet thanks to many generations of “cultural” norms, it has led to different biology after a few generations with the patriarchial chimpanzee culture/biology being much more violent, better at tool use, and far better at surviving. Humans evolved from chimpanzees and the similarities in culture and biology are not accidental.

    There’s a lot of information on HBD here, but specially I recommend Jayman’s pages on it which show a lot of detail on the studies. But for another example, though, horses all had regional differences even before they were bred specifically(controlled breeding only really happened by the Renaissance). But even during the medieval times, regional variations of horses were recognized(The Arab, the Spanish horse, etc) and this was at a time when there was really very little effort at selective breeding – the horses were mostly adapting to the “culture” they were put in, and it made for stronger horses in some areas, and smaller and smarter horses in others.

    You can maintain your belief in a blank slate if you wish, but its basically untrue. It makes very little sense from a biological perspective. Height differences across populations even after nutrition has normalized show that its a combination of both hereditary(biological) and environmental factors.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    So, is it purely by accident that cattle-raising people have left descendants that are capable of digesting lactose past infancy? Or that the Nepalese have adaptations to living in high areas with reduced oxygen?
     
    These sound like legitimate examples of adaptation, over a very long chain of generations, yes.

    yet thanks to many generations of “cultural” norms, it has led to different biology after a few generations with the patriarchial chimpanzee culture/biology being much more violent, better at tool use, and far better at surviving
     
    The chimpanzees don't have concealed ovulation, like humans do (and bonobos, I think?). That's why their males need to be violent. It's a completely different game.

    You can maintain your belief in a blank slate if you wish [...] its a combination of both hereditary(biological) and environmental factors.
     
    I suppose I do believe in the hereditary factor. As a baseline of a sort. And the potential. I mean, my child would not become Mozart, no matter what. But Mozart could've easily become a shepherd or a useless drunk. Or a boring accountant or something.

    But what's the logical consequence of this belief?

  46. @Immigrant from former USSR
    Dear Dr. Thompson:
    I think this is an appropriate place to ask if Chanda Chisala,
    http://www.unz.com/author/chanda-chisala/
    is male or female ?
    I was unable to determine that from the corresponding posts on Unz Review.
    Thank you, I.f.f.U.

    Male

    Read More
  47. @Mao Cheng Ji

    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.
     
    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn't happen. I'm pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by 'biology' you mean 'psychology'.

    Human beings are, first and foremost, social animals. 75 years ago masses of Germans were acting like bloodthirsty animals. And then within the span of a few decades they were socially re-conditioned to act like placid domesticated animals. Don't tell me their biology had changed. The only thing that had changed was social environment.

    biological difference will inspire cultural roles
     
    Biological phenomena are the foundation, but they don't dictate cultural norms. The necessity for survival and for prosperity (economy) of the tribe dictates cultural norms.

    For example: in a small shrinking tribe abortion (or any other kind of refusal to procreate) should be tabooed, forbidden. But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do. So, yes, biology, but biology as means to an end, not biology as the destiny. And it's the same story with gender roles, I'm sure.

    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.

    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn’t happen. I’m pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by ‘biology’ you mean ‘psychology’.

    Do you know about sexual selection?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection

    Do you deny that what individuals consider attractive in the opposite sex is affected by culture?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Do you deny that what individuals consider attractive in the opposite sex is affected by culture?
     
    Like fancy sneakers and fake eyelashes? No I don't, but what does it have to do with anything?

    I don't see many women around looking like Barbie, and those who do probably achieved it by horrific diets and liposuction, rather than breeding.
  48. @Immigrant from former USSR
    Dear Dr. Thompson:
    I think this is an appropriate place to ask if Chanda Chisala,
    http://www.unz.com/author/chanda-chisala/
    is male or female ?
    I was unable to determine that from the corresponding posts on Unz Review.
    Thank you, I.f.f.U.

    As Dr. Thompson said, male. For more information notice this from the bio at the end of his articles:

    Chanda Chisala, originally from Zambia, has been a John S. Knight Visiting Fellow at Stanford University, a Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution, and a Reagan-Fascell Fellowship at the National Endowment for Democracy.

    Then see http://jsk.stanford.edu/fellows/class-of-2009/chanda-chisala/
    His website is https://chandachisala.wordpress.com/about/

    It will be interesting to revisit this post of his in 10 (or fewer?) years: https://chandachisala.wordpress.com/2016/05/09/who-will-be-disappointed-with-genetic-findings-on-race-and-intelligence/
    I think his predictions there are more defensible than some of the things he says on the Unz Review. One that especially caught my eye was:

    my prediction is that the IQ genetic profile of Ashkenazi Jews will be closer to (at least some) SubSaharan African populations than to East Asians

    Note how vigorously he argues with me about the importance of African subpopulations here on Unz in recent posts. Of course, tribes were much more important two years ago for some reason: http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/?highlight=tribe

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    I know something about Zambians. My wife runs a charity building schools there.

    Rural Zambians can't count well enough to give change. This does not mean that they are stupid. They see the world in cycles. Parents>children, life of animals, annual crops/rain, round huts clustered in round circles. This seems to block arithmetic processes. Put them in a city for a generation with a rectangular life and they can count.

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.
  49. Is the Raven’s still regarded as a good test of general intelligene? They point to Jensen here but RPM scores didn’t correlate that well with g in a recent study

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001002

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Thompson
    Gignac's suggestion of using 4 subtests of the Wechsler misunderstands the difference between a very expensive, clinician administered test which must be standardised in each language with a group administered, much cheaper and generally quicker cross-cultural measure. Different instruments for different budgets and different purposes.
    , @Emil Kirkegaard
    Gignac finds a correlation of g and Raven's of about .70. Larger study of http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289607000931 finds a value of about .80 for the similar Cattell test.

    However, these are individual-level results, not group-level, which is what we are interested here. Unless there's some very strong group differences in non-GCA factors, we won't have a problem in this context.
  50. @res


    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.
     
    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn’t happen. I’m pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by ‘biology’ you mean ‘psychology’.
     
    Do you know about sexual selection?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_selection

    Do you deny that what individuals consider attractive in the opposite sex is affected by culture?

    Do you deny that what individuals consider attractive in the opposite sex is affected by culture?

    Like fancy sneakers and fake eyelashes? No I don’t, but what does it have to do with anything?

    I don’t see many women around looking like Barbie, and those who do probably achieved it by horrific diets and liposuction, rather than breeding.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    No I don’t, but what does it have to do with anything?
     
    Do you really not understand that was exactly the point of mentioning sexual selection in the first part of my comment 47 (which you failed to quote)?
    , @Daniel Chieh
    Well, there's a pretty clear example of it. There was an African tribe where women were huge, engorged labias were seen as attractive - its sufficiently unusual that we don't really see it outside of that sub-population at all, their labias were almost like a tiny skirt. Over many generations, women with larger labias had more children and that subpopulation actually developed an unique phenotype for their women.

    Their women basically evolved an entire secondary sexual characteristic due to a cultural preference, which turn into a biological change.

    There's also steatopygia as well, in another and related tribe. Basically, if something is seen as attractive in a culture and is biologically influenced at all, and this is related to how many children you'll have, then it'll also become more of a biological fact.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatopygia

    [blockquote] But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do.[/quote]

    This is probably the most honest part of your post, in that you believe that biology should be overcome by "new culture." That's fine, but realize that this also causes biological changes too. For example, in a world where the "law" says that having only one child is best, one way to "biologically win" is to be able to cheat at it and have children secretly outside. Therefore, the more clever and less lawful you are, you will have more children like you and you'll end up gradually affecting the biological composition of the entire population.

  51. @Commenting
    Is the Raven's still regarded as a good test of general intelligene? They point to Jensen here but RPM scores didn't correlate that well with g in a recent study

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001002

    Gignac’s suggestion of using 4 subtests of the Wechsler misunderstands the difference between a very expensive, clinician administered test which must be standardised in each language with a group administered, much cheaper and generally quicker cross-cultural measure. Different instruments for different budgets and different purposes.

    Read More
  52. I can agree with that, test has its merits of course. But the authors suggest that “The use of Raven’s SPM would allow a strong test of sex differences in the g factor, because the Raven’s SPM is a test of reasoning ability known to be one of the best measures of general intelligence (Jensen, 1998; Mackintosh, 1996).”

    I don’t think either Jensen or Mackintosh presented any data on this actually. Idea that the RPM is such a great measure of g seems to be a rumour that gets reiterated a lot

    Read More
    • Replies: @James Thompson
    Linda Gottfredson commented once "People say Raven's is a good test of g simply because Jensen said so". I think it is a good test of non-verbal intelligence, and it has particular merit because it has been used so often that there is considerable comparative data, and lots of item analysis data. On the downside, Raven does not publish everything for commercial reasons.
  53. @Daniel Chieh
    So, is it purely by accident that cattle-raising people have left descendants that are capable of digesting lactose past infancy? Or that the Nepalese have adaptations to living in high areas with reduced oxygen? What/who was the selective breeding that created sexual dimorphism in gorillas, who are huge in comparison in females?

    Cultural norms affect who lives, who dies, and who is more successful in life - when this success is correlated with reproductive success, it does indeed increase alleles in a population, basically biological change. Chimpanzees and bonobos are gentically almost identical and can probably breed, yet thanks to many generations of "cultural" norms, it has led to different biology after a few generations with the patriarchial chimpanzee culture/biology being much more violent, better at tool use, and far better at surviving. Humans evolved from chimpanzees and the similarities in culture and biology are not accidental.

    There's a lot of information on HBD here, but specially I recommend Jayman's pages on it which show a lot of detail on the studies. But for another example, though, horses all had regional differences even before they were bred specifically(controlled breeding only really happened by the Renaissance). But even during the medieval times, regional variations of horses were recognized(The Arab, the Spanish horse, etc) and this was at a time when there was really very little effort at selective breeding - the horses were mostly adapting to the "culture" they were put in, and it made for stronger horses in some areas, and smaller and smarter horses in others.

    You can maintain your belief in a blank slate if you wish, but its basically untrue. It makes very little sense from a biological perspective. Height differences across populations even after nutrition has normalized show that its a combination of both hereditary(biological) and environmental factors.

    So, is it purely by accident that cattle-raising people have left descendants that are capable of digesting lactose past infancy? Or that the Nepalese have adaptations to living in high areas with reduced oxygen?

    These sound like legitimate examples of adaptation, over a very long chain of generations, yes.

    yet thanks to many generations of “cultural” norms, it has led to different biology after a few generations with the patriarchial chimpanzee culture/biology being much more violent, better at tool use, and far better at surviving

    The chimpanzees don’t have concealed ovulation, like humans do (and bonobos, I think?). That’s why their males need to be violent. It’s a completely different game.

    You can maintain your belief in a blank slate if you wish [...] its a combination of both hereditary(biological) and environmental factors.

    I suppose I do believe in the hereditary factor. As a baseline of a sort. And the potential. I mean, my child would not become Mozart, no matter what. But Mozart could’ve easily become a shepherd or a useless drunk. Or a boring accountant or something.

    But what’s the logical consequence of this belief?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    It doesn't take that many generations for a trait to become common, actually. I think there's been some studies on West Hunter that show that if a trait means that even one more child over the average is grown to maturity by people with such trait, in only a few generations, it will become very common in a population.

    But what’s the logical consequence of this belief?
     
    The logical consequences of this belief is to understand that if people are different, then first equality isn't necessarily a moral good to strive for, and secondarily, its okay to have policies that treat people differently, because everyone is maximized differently.

    If women are biologically more inclined to be more nurturing, then its fine to have gendered jobs and encourage more women into nuture jobs while reserving other jobs for men. This might even be optimal for productivity.

    Everyone might be happier for it, and that would, perhaps, not a terrible thing.

  54. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Do you deny that what individuals consider attractive in the opposite sex is affected by culture?
     
    Like fancy sneakers and fake eyelashes? No I don't, but what does it have to do with anything?

    I don't see many women around looking like Barbie, and those who do probably achieved it by horrific diets and liposuction, rather than breeding.

    No I don’t, but what does it have to do with anything?

    Do you really not understand that was exactly the point of mentioning sexual selection in the first part of my comment 47 (which you failed to quote)?

    Read More
  55. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Do you deny that what individuals consider attractive in the opposite sex is affected by culture?
     
    Like fancy sneakers and fake eyelashes? No I don't, but what does it have to do with anything?

    I don't see many women around looking like Barbie, and those who do probably achieved it by horrific diets and liposuction, rather than breeding.

    Well, there’s a pretty clear example of it. There was an African tribe where women were huge, engorged labias were seen as attractive – its sufficiently unusual that we don’t really see it outside of that sub-population at all, their labias were almost like a tiny skirt. Over many generations, women with larger labias had more children and that subpopulation actually developed an unique phenotype for their women.

    Their women basically evolved an entire secondary sexual characteristic due to a cultural preference, which turn into a biological change.

    There’s also steatopygia as well, in another and related tribe. Basically, if something is seen as attractive in a culture and is biologically influenced at all, and this is related to how many children you’ll have, then it’ll also become more of a biological fact.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatopygia

    [blockquote] But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do.[/quote]

    This is probably the most honest part of your post, in that you believe that biology should be overcome by “new culture.” That’s fine, but realize that this also causes biological changes too. For example, in a world where the “law” says that having only one child is best, one way to “biologically win” is to be able to cheat at it and have children secretly outside. Therefore, the more clever and less lawful you are, you will have more children like you and you’ll end up gradually affecting the biological composition of the entire population.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    engorged labias were seen as attractive
     

    There’s also steatopygia as well, in another and related tribe
     
    I'm sure this is a mere hypothesis, that it wasn't common, then it was deemed attractive, and because of that after a while it became common. Not a very strong hypothesis imo.

    For example, in a world where the “law” says that having only one child is best, one way to “biologically win” is to be able to cheat at it and have children secretly outside.
     
    But I don't think humans tend behave like this, that they are eager to "biologically win". In economically developed countries where they could easily afford a dozen, they typically have one or two. If one child becomes the norm, I don't think they will be looking for ways to have children secretly outside. We are not like other animals in that we have human minds, we reflect, we don't mindlessly follow primitive instincts. Our human minds have - and use - the veto power over our instincts.
  56. Since w’re unable to define intelligence, we cannot measure it.
    An IQ test just measures IQ, whatever it is.
    On top of that, IQ is culturally biased.

    Read More
    • LOL: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Commenting
    We do define intelligence e.g.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattell%E2%80%93Horn%E2%80%93Carroll_theory

    one can disagree on definitions of course so I usually just point out that IQ is a good predictor of various outcomes. Doesn't matter as much what it measures when it clearly is something of importance
    , @Anonymous
    Are you by any chance related to figure skater Sjoukje Dijkstra,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjoukje_Dijkstra ?
  57. @Mao Cheng Ji

    So, is it purely by accident that cattle-raising people have left descendants that are capable of digesting lactose past infancy? Or that the Nepalese have adaptations to living in high areas with reduced oxygen?
     
    These sound like legitimate examples of adaptation, over a very long chain of generations, yes.

    yet thanks to many generations of “cultural” norms, it has led to different biology after a few generations with the patriarchial chimpanzee culture/biology being much more violent, better at tool use, and far better at surviving
     
    The chimpanzees don't have concealed ovulation, like humans do (and bonobos, I think?). That's why their males need to be violent. It's a completely different game.

    You can maintain your belief in a blank slate if you wish [...] its a combination of both hereditary(biological) and environmental factors.
     
    I suppose I do believe in the hereditary factor. As a baseline of a sort. And the potential. I mean, my child would not become Mozart, no matter what. But Mozart could've easily become a shepherd or a useless drunk. Or a boring accountant or something.

    But what's the logical consequence of this belief?

    It doesn’t take that many generations for a trait to become common, actually. I think there’s been some studies on West Hunter that show that if a trait means that even one more child over the average is grown to maturity by people with such trait, in only a few generations, it will become very common in a population.

    But what’s the logical consequence of this belief?

    The logical consequences of this belief is to understand that if people are different, then first equality isn’t necessarily a moral good to strive for, and secondarily, its okay to have policies that treat people differently, because everyone is maximized differently.

    If women are biologically more inclined to be more nurturing, then its fine to have gendered jobs and encourage more women into nuture jobs while reserving other jobs for men. This might even be optimal for productivity.

    Everyone might be happier for it, and that would, perhaps, not a terrible thing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    then first equality isn’t necessarily a moral good to strive for
     
    How you define 'equality'? If you're referring to the liberal idea that every liberal 'identity' has to be proportionally represented everywhere, then I completely agree, it's total bs. But perhaps you're talking about something else.

    If women are biologically more inclined to be more nurturing, then its fine to have gendered jobs and encourage more women into nuture jobs while reserving other jobs for men.
     
    Just based on averages? Suppose these days 40% of all women and 25% of all men like to cook. Why would you want to encourage anyone, or have any gendered policies based on this statistic? I see no reason.
    , @gcochran
    "one more child over the average" - that's a huge advantage.
  58. @res
    As Dr. Thompson said, male. For more information notice this from the bio at the end of his articles:

    Chanda Chisala, originally from Zambia, has been a John S. Knight Visiting Fellow at Stanford University, a Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution, and a Reagan-Fascell Fellowship at the National Endowment for Democracy.
     
    Then see http://jsk.stanford.edu/fellows/class-of-2009/chanda-chisala/
    His website is https://chandachisala.wordpress.com/about/

    It will be interesting to revisit this post of his in 10 (or fewer?) years: https://chandachisala.wordpress.com/2016/05/09/who-will-be-disappointed-with-genetic-findings-on-race-and-intelligence/
    I think his predictions there are more defensible than some of the things he says on the Unz Review. One that especially caught my eye was:

    my prediction is that the IQ genetic profile of Ashkenazi Jews will be closer to (at least some) SubSaharan African populations than to East Asians
     
    Note how vigorously he argues with me about the importance of African subpopulations here on Unz in recent posts. Of course, tribes were much more important two years ago for some reason: http://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/?highlight=tribe

    I know something about Zambians. My wife runs a charity building schools there.

    Rural Zambians can’t count well enough to give change. This does not mean that they are stupid. They see the world in cycles. Parents>children, life of animals, annual crops/rain, round huts clustered in round circles. This seems to block arithmetic processes. Put them in a city for a generation with a rectangular life and they can count.

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.
     
    I basically agree with this. Some questions though:
    1. What is the baseline? Looking at some of the African studies (e.g. the Wicherts table mentioned above) I'm not convinced the population you describe is well represented in the current numbers.
    2. How massive? Any thoughts on where you expect the African Flynn effect to top out in terms of average IQ?

    Thanks for providing your real world experiences. Does your wife have any experience with (and thoughts about) the Zambian elite?
    , @Santoculto
    Maybe strong earlier cultural inculcation can have a effect but this doesn't mean when/if they were put in "westernized environments" they will reach to the Eurasian levels. And yes, western colonization keep strong in Africa but by now it's via "globalitarian" culture and its techniques.
  59. @jilles dykstra
    Since w're unable to define intelligence, we cannot measure it.
    An IQ test just measures IQ, whatever it is.
    On top of that, IQ is culturally biased.

    We do define intelligence e.g.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattell%E2%80%93Horn%E2%80%93Carroll_theory

    one can disagree on definitions of course so I usually just point out that IQ is a good predictor of various outcomes. Doesn’t matter as much what it measures when it clearly is something of importance

    Read More
  60. Why is this article listed under “Science” articles in UNZ review? There is very little if any science in this field.

    Is someone with 21 publications over the past 27 years a credible “tutor” for this field? The “academic” record doesn’t look very impressive – 3 articles in the past 5 years.

    Article: THE COGNITIVE COMPETENCES of IMMIGRANT and NATIVE STUDENTS ACROSS the WORLD: AN ANALYSIS of GAPS, POSSIBLE CAUSES and IMPACT
    Article · Nov 2014 · Journal of Biosocial Science
    Heiner Rindermann Heiner Rindermann James Thompson James Thompson
    Read 8Citations 129Reads

    Article: Ability rise in NAEP and narrowing ethnic gaps?
    Article · Nov 2013 · Intelligence
    Heiner Rindermann Heiner Rindermann James Thompson James Thompson
    Read 20Citations 43Reads

    Article: Richard Lynn’s contributions to personality and intelligence
    Article · Jul 2012 · Personality and Individual Differences
    James Thompson James Thompson
    Read 3Citations 77Reads

    …… https://www.researchgate.net/profile/James_Thompson5/publications

    Finally, I had a relatively high regard for UCL in the past, but this kind of wanking makes me wonder. Is Thompson actually part of UCL? He doesn’t seem to be listed on the UCL website.

    Read More
  61. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @jilles dykstra
    Since w're unable to define intelligence, we cannot measure it.
    An IQ test just measures IQ, whatever it is.
    On top of that, IQ is culturally biased.

    Are you by any chance related to figure skater Sjoukje Dijkstra,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjoukje_Dijkstra ?

    Read More
  62. @Philip Owen
    I know something about Zambians. My wife runs a charity building schools there.

    Rural Zambians can't count well enough to give change. This does not mean that they are stupid. They see the world in cycles. Parents>children, life of animals, annual crops/rain, round huts clustered in round circles. This seems to block arithmetic processes. Put them in a city for a generation with a rectangular life and they can count.

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.

    I basically agree with this. Some questions though:
    1. What is the baseline? Looking at some of the African studies (e.g. the Wicherts table mentioned above) I’m not convinced the population you describe is well represented in the current numbers.
    2. How massive? Any thoughts on where you expect the African Flynn effect to top out in terms of average IQ?

    Thanks for providing your real world experiences. Does your wife have any experience with (and thoughts about) the Zambian elite?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Indeed the idea of Raven''s Progressive Matrices being invalidated for testing tribal people whose culture precludes reliable counting is fascinating and potentially enlightening. I would hope to read James Thompson on that with particular reference to my question raising the need for an explanation of the Flynn Effect being more marked for Raven's non verbal tests than for, e.g., vocabulary.

    Mind you we know Zambian Africans are capable of Wall Street style capitalidm in concept and practice as Mr. Mugabe's co-predators can clearly count, and add, and possibly - if they can defer gratification - do compound interest calculations.

    , @Philip Owen
    Well, one young Zambian woman from the elite had to go to Malaysia to study for a degree because no other top 100 Universities would take a 16 year old. (Cambridge does for Maths but she wanted to study business). By 19 she was completing her Master's in International Development in Cardiff. I am meeting a guy who is promoting a utility scale solar farm in three weeks time. He seems to combine qualifications in medicine (mental illness) and engineering. So some, at least, are really rather good. Beyond these anecdotes, I can say nothing systematic.

    It is worth noting that Zambia is peaceful and tolerant (the last Vice President was white; Indian shopkeepers are still around).
  63. @res

    This definite sample comes up with a result of IQ 70 and I think should be considered the best estimate of Nigerian IQ.

     

    Can you elaborate on how you derived a mean IQ of 70 from their results? Are you able to derive an SD value as well?

    The reference I found on this topic only gave a range of Raven/IQ conversions from 36/85 to 60/134
    http://epm.sagepub.com/content/48/4/1091 Table 2
    One thing in that reference I found surprising is that SPM and APM only correlated 0.587
    Is that a typical result? That seems low for two tests which are so similar.

    Wicherts et al. 2010 looks like a better reference for our purposes: Raven's test performance of sub-Saharan Africans: Average performance, psychometric properties, and the Flynn Effect

    Table 1 gives an overview of the previous studies. Your point about better sampling in this study is important.

    Appendix A discusses converting raw scores to IQ, but doesn't actually say how to do it. Is that information proprietary?

    Any thoughts of how Raven's being relatively subject to the Flynn Effect (which seems not to have happened in Africa yet) might affect the conclusions we can draw from these analyses?

    Rushton and Skuy 2000 Performance on Raven's Matrices by African and White University Students in South Africa provides a more selected SPM comparison sample (this sample is included in Wicherts 2010).

    From the Rushton paper we have:

    The SPM is usually regarded as a good measure of the non-verbal component of
    general intelligence not bound by culturally specific information.
     
    Is it possible that the SPM understates African IQ relative to a more verbal IQ test? That seems like a reasonable hypothesis given Black verbal fluency, but I have no idea how to estimate an effect size.

    Figure 1 of the Rushton paper shows an interesting spike for African (non-white AFAICT) scores near the ceiling of the SPM. Any idea what is going on there? Who are those people?

    Is this result credible, given Nigerian accomplishments? I think we must always question that, and look for discrepant achievements, but I think we probably do not have to revise this estimate, though we will discuss that later, in another post.
     
    I think this result combined with accomplishments provides evidence for there being subpopulations with different mean IQs. I would expect the private school Nigerians to undergo testing as part of their schooling (is this a reasonable expectation?). Does anyone have access to those numbers? Are there any statistics for Nigerian school status (non/public/private) by tribe?

    Low-cost Private Education: Impacts on Achieving Universal Primary Education
    provides some public/private school numbers and other information for Nigeria. Page 114 notes that comparative examination performance data could not be obtained from the authorities (interesting...). There are pages missing in the preview, but the book appears fairly available at university libraries for those who have access.
    My suspicion would be we could learn something by looking for clusters of high scorers in private schools.

    This presentation has some useful background, but no test scores: HIGHER EDUCATION STATISTICS- NIGERIA EXPERIENCE IN DATA COLLECTION

    This book has some interesting commentary on elite private schools in Nigeria (Their test scores would be fascinating, surely someone somewhere is bragging about the results? Thoughtless bragging is a great way to find otherwise hidden information): Elite Education: International perspectives

    This is probably a good list of places to look: https://buzznigeria.com/top-23-most-expensive-secondary-schools-in-nigeria-the-fees-are-really-mind-blowing/

    From that list (#9) here are test scores (unfortunately I have no idea how the "West African Secondary Examinations" are normed) for what looks like a particularly competitive school:
    http://www.loyolajesuit.org/result_stats.htm

    Looking forward to your future posts on these topics.

    Regarding the Flynn effect in Africa:

    If you take all of Wicherts’ African IQ data going back to the 1930s (adjusted by Wicherts for Flynn effects), there is no clear trend line. If the Flynn effect had not really started in Africa, there would be a falling trend in the Flynn-adjusted scores. But there is no falling trend.

    Looking ahead, the Flynn effect in Africa seems likely to continue, whereas it is stalling out or going into reverse in Western Europe and North America. Thus, the gap between Western and African scores should narrow to some degree in the years ahead. However, contra Wicherts, there is no evidence at this point that African scores will one day equal those in the West, let alone those in Northeast Asia.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Flynn effect finish also for blacks in north America and some European countries? Would be interesting to compare south African elites by races to see if we similar enriched environments they still differ and with expected advantages for non-blacks. Representative differences among elites also can say something about general populations.
  64. @Daniel Chieh
    It doesn't take that many generations for a trait to become common, actually. I think there's been some studies on West Hunter that show that if a trait means that even one more child over the average is grown to maturity by people with such trait, in only a few generations, it will become very common in a population.

    But what’s the logical consequence of this belief?
     
    The logical consequences of this belief is to understand that if people are different, then first equality isn't necessarily a moral good to strive for, and secondarily, its okay to have policies that treat people differently, because everyone is maximized differently.

    If women are biologically more inclined to be more nurturing, then its fine to have gendered jobs and encourage more women into nuture jobs while reserving other jobs for men. This might even be optimal for productivity.

    Everyone might be happier for it, and that would, perhaps, not a terrible thing.

    then first equality isn’t necessarily a moral good to strive for

    How you define ‘equality’? If you’re referring to the liberal idea that every liberal ‘identity’ has to be proportionally represented everywhere, then I completely agree, it’s total bs. But perhaps you’re talking about something else.

    If women are biologically more inclined to be more nurturing, then its fine to have gendered jobs and encourage more women into nuture jobs while reserving other jobs for men.

    Just based on averages? Suppose these days 40% of all women and 25% of all men like to cook. Why would you want to encourage anyone, or have any gendered policies based on this statistic? I see no reason.

    Read More
  65. @Mao Cheng Ji
    Seeing how this 'indicator' is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don't think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.

    Seeing how this ‘indicator’ is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don’t think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.

    Wow. Doesn’t leave “any doubt”.

    Not like anything biological happens with boys and girls between nine and adulthood.

    Perhaps the dumbest comment i’ve ever read on Unz which is really saying something.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Perhaps the dumbest comment i’ve ever read on Unz which is really saying something.
     
    It might be fun to have a permanent open thread where we could link all of the contestants. Perhaps along with a voting feature.
  66. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.
     
    I don't think so. Check for your confirmation bias.

    You get visible effects, people getting taller when they get more food, more dairy products; or heavier - with more sugar, less physical activity. But that's all purely environmental, no breeding.

    Breeder’s equation: if taller-than-average people have more children than average, the next generation will be taller. Equally true if for “taller” we substitute “fatter”, “smarter”, “paler”, or”more nervous”. Right now selection trends “dumber”, about one IQ point a generation.

    Women are getting shorter.

    Read More
  67. @Daniel Chieh
    Well, there's a pretty clear example of it. There was an African tribe where women were huge, engorged labias were seen as attractive - its sufficiently unusual that we don't really see it outside of that sub-population at all, their labias were almost like a tiny skirt. Over many generations, women with larger labias had more children and that subpopulation actually developed an unique phenotype for their women.

    Their women basically evolved an entire secondary sexual characteristic due to a cultural preference, which turn into a biological change.

    There's also steatopygia as well, in another and related tribe. Basically, if something is seen as attractive in a culture and is biologically influenced at all, and this is related to how many children you'll have, then it'll also become more of a biological fact.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatopygia

    [blockquote] But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do.[/quote]

    This is probably the most honest part of your post, in that you believe that biology should be overcome by "new culture." That's fine, but realize that this also causes biological changes too. For example, in a world where the "law" says that having only one child is best, one way to "biologically win" is to be able to cheat at it and have children secretly outside. Therefore, the more clever and less lawful you are, you will have more children like you and you'll end up gradually affecting the biological composition of the entire population.

    engorged labias were seen as attractive

    There’s also steatopygia as well, in another and related tribe

    I’m sure this is a mere hypothesis, that it wasn’t common, then it was deemed attractive, and because of that after a while it became common. Not a very strong hypothesis imo.

    For example, in a world where the “law” says that having only one child is best, one way to “biologically win” is to be able to cheat at it and have children secretly outside.

    But I don’t think humans tend behave like this, that they are eager to “biologically win”. In economically developed countries where they could easily afford a dozen, they typically have one or two. If one child becomes the norm, I don’t think they will be looking for ways to have children secretly outside. We are not like other animals in that we have human minds, we reflect, we don’t mindlessly follow primitive instincts. Our human minds have – and use – the veto power over our instincts.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Just based on averages? Suppose these days 40% of all women and 25% of all men like to cook. Why would you want to encourage anyone, or have any gendered policies based on this statistic? I see no reason.

     

    Because knowing so will overall make more happy, and among other things, possibly simplify and reduce the emotional and physical cost to maintain artificial impressions of equality and blank slatism?

    I’m sure this is a mere hypothesis, that it wasn’t common, then it was deemed attractive, and because of that after a while it became common. Not a very strong hypothesis imo.

     

    Evolution is a mere hypothesis too. I would say that the evidence is pretty damn strong. But moving on...

    But I don’t think humans tend behave like this, that they are eager to “biologically win”. In economically developed countries where they could easily afford a dozen, they typically have one or two. If one child becomes the norm, I don’t think they will be looking for ways to have children secretly outside. We are not like other animals in that we have human minds, we reflect, we don’t mindlessly follow primitive instincts. Our human minds have – and use – the veto power over our instincts.

     

    Do all humans think like this? No. Do some humans think like this? Yes. Do some humans engage in other behavior that perhaps causes them to have more children, like forget to use protection? Yes.

    As gcochran notes, we're "trending dumber" because perhaps the people who "do follow primitive instincts" are having more children, who also are more likely to "follow primitive instincts." Therefore, biological change occurs again.

    And if you actually have laws against having children, then you're encouraging the people who "follow primitive instinct, and are good at sneakily breaking the law." Great population you'll create there.

    Come on, man. You are a bright guy. You can follow the logic and you can realize that at the very least, we're coming from somewhere sensible. Whoever has more children, in the long run, replaces the population; increases his or her phenotype, and essentially, causes biological change to the population.

  68. @Daniel Chieh
    It doesn't take that many generations for a trait to become common, actually. I think there's been some studies on West Hunter that show that if a trait means that even one more child over the average is grown to maturity by people with such trait, in only a few generations, it will become very common in a population.

    But what’s the logical consequence of this belief?
     
    The logical consequences of this belief is to understand that if people are different, then first equality isn't necessarily a moral good to strive for, and secondarily, its okay to have policies that treat people differently, because everyone is maximized differently.

    If women are biologically more inclined to be more nurturing, then its fine to have gendered jobs and encourage more women into nuture jobs while reserving other jobs for men. This might even be optimal for productivity.

    Everyone might be happier for it, and that would, perhaps, not a terrible thing.

    “one more child over the average” – that’s a huge advantage.

    Read More
  69. @AnotherDad

    Seeing how this ‘indicator’ is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don’t think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.
     
    Wow. Doesn't leave "any doubt".

    Not like anything biological happens with boys and girls between nine and adulthood.

    Perhaps the dumbest comment i've ever read on Unz which is really saying something.

    Perhaps the dumbest comment i’ve ever read on Unz which is really saying something.

    It might be fun to have a permanent open thread where we could link all of the contestants. Perhaps along with a voting feature.

    Read More
  70. @Mao Cheng Ji

    engorged labias were seen as attractive
     

    There’s also steatopygia as well, in another and related tribe
     
    I'm sure this is a mere hypothesis, that it wasn't common, then it was deemed attractive, and because of that after a while it became common. Not a very strong hypothesis imo.

    For example, in a world where the “law” says that having only one child is best, one way to “biologically win” is to be able to cheat at it and have children secretly outside.
     
    But I don't think humans tend behave like this, that they are eager to "biologically win". In economically developed countries where they could easily afford a dozen, they typically have one or two. If one child becomes the norm, I don't think they will be looking for ways to have children secretly outside. We are not like other animals in that we have human minds, we reflect, we don't mindlessly follow primitive instincts. Our human minds have - and use - the veto power over our instincts.

    Just based on averages? Suppose these days 40% of all women and 25% of all men like to cook. Why would you want to encourage anyone, or have any gendered policies based on this statistic? I see no reason.

    Because knowing so will overall make more happy, and among other things, possibly simplify and reduce the emotional and physical cost to maintain artificial impressions of equality and blank slatism?

    I’m sure this is a mere hypothesis, that it wasn’t common, then it was deemed attractive, and because of that after a while it became common. Not a very strong hypothesis imo.

    Evolution is a mere hypothesis too. I would say that the evidence is pretty damn strong. But moving on…

    But I don’t think humans tend behave like this, that they are eager to “biologically win”. In economically developed countries where they could easily afford a dozen, they typically have one or two. If one child becomes the norm, I don’t think they will be looking for ways to have children secretly outside. We are not like other animals in that we have human minds, we reflect, we don’t mindlessly follow primitive instincts. Our human minds have – and use – the veto power over our instincts.

    Do all humans think like this? No. Do some humans think like this? Yes. Do some humans engage in other behavior that perhaps causes them to have more children, like forget to use protection? Yes.

    As gcochran notes, we’re “trending dumber” because perhaps the people who “do follow primitive instincts” are having more children, who also are more likely to “follow primitive instincts.” Therefore, biological change occurs again.

    And if you actually have laws against having children, then you’re encouraging the people who “follow primitive instinct, and are good at sneakily breaking the law.” Great population you’ll create there.

    Come on, man. You are a bright guy. You can follow the logic and you can realize that at the very least, we’re coming from somewhere sensible. Whoever has more children, in the long run, replaces the population; increases his or her phenotype, and essentially, causes biological change to the population.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Whoever has more children, in the long run, replaces the population; increases his or her phenotype, and essentially, causes biological change to the population.
     
    You caricature my position as believing in a 'blank slate'. If I were to respond in kind, I would accuse you of 'genetic determinism'. Someone will have (conceive) children, but they will become society members, with all that it entails. I don't think that biological ancestry is all that important.

    Also, I don't know it's true for all the species of mammals, but isn't it true for most species that the parents don't relate to their grownup offsprings in any special way? Isn't it also true that females have (more or less) the same fondness to all babies, not just their own? I don't think there's this specifically individualistic instinct of procreation in nature.
  71. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Fredrik
    Not disputing your observation but I wonder if you have adjusted for 'personality'`? A lot of young diverse men behave in a way that isn't entirely compatible with the norms of white middle class persons. That can make the diverse young men appear more stupid than they are.

    This is the truth. When you are looking at a minority population the women are always going to seem smarter than the men, assuming they don’t practice extreme gender discrimination within their societies. Minority women will generally find it easier to adhere to the norms of the majority, and their better social and communication skills will enable them to overcome some of the handicaps posed by their minority-status. I think that’s one of the reasons East Asian women seem so much smarter than East Asian men in the USA.

    Which again leads back to the fact that the ability to solve logical puzzles (aka IQ) is counting for less and less in this managerial and feminized world of ours. Verbal facility, energy, cheerfulness, charisma, fitting in and social cunning seem as important, if not more.

    Read More
  72. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Often within a few generations you can get visible effects, without selective breeding.
     
    I don't think so. Check for your confirmation bias.

    You get visible effects, people getting taller when they get more food, more dairy products; or heavier - with more sugar, less physical activity. But that's all purely environmental, no breeding.

    NOTHING that is related with organic things is purely environmental.

    Read More
  73. @Mao Cheng Ji
    Seeing how this 'indicator' is equal for boys and girls at the age of nine and then diverges, I don't think it leaves any doubt whatsoever that the difference is of a purely environmental nature.

    I think it’s purely environmental because…

    Read More
  74. @phil
    Regarding the Flynn effect in Africa:

    If you take all of Wicherts' African IQ data going back to the 1930s (adjusted by Wicherts for Flynn effects), there is no clear trend line. If the Flynn effect had not really started in Africa, there would be a falling trend in the Flynn-adjusted scores. But there is no falling trend.

    Looking ahead, the Flynn effect in Africa seems likely to continue, whereas it is stalling out or going into reverse in Western Europe and North America. Thus, the gap between Western and African scores should narrow to some degree in the years ahead. However, contra Wicherts, there is no evidence at this point that African scores will one day equal those in the West, let alone those in Northeast Asia.

    Flynn effect finish also for blacks in north America and some European countries? Would be interesting to compare south African elites by races to see if we similar enriched environments they still differ and with expected advantages for non-blacks. Representative differences among elites also can say something about general populations.

    Read More
    • Replies: @phil
    The Flynn effect may not be finished for American blacks, but the difference in average scores as compared to whites is primarily on g-loaded test items, and the Flynn effect has very little to do with raising g. (I realize that you are not, as compared to brand-name intelligence researchers, a supporter of the concept of g, and I suggest you write something for peer review by a professional journal.)

    There has been roughly a one standard deviation difference in average scores for a hundred years despite a greatly improved environment for blacks over time. There is hardly any Flynn effect for a backwards digits test and a substantial racial difference remains.

    Blacks from household incomes of more than $100,000 score worse than Asians or whites reared in poverty.

  75. @Philip Owen
    I know something about Zambians. My wife runs a charity building schools there.

    Rural Zambians can't count well enough to give change. This does not mean that they are stupid. They see the world in cycles. Parents>children, life of animals, annual crops/rain, round huts clustered in round circles. This seems to block arithmetic processes. Put them in a city for a generation with a rectangular life and they can count.

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.

    Maybe strong earlier cultural inculcation can have a effect but this doesn’t mean when/if they were put in “westernized environments” they will reach to the Eurasian levels. And yes, western colonization keep strong in Africa but by now it’s via “globalitarian” culture and its techniques.

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  76. This is a school sample so unless the boys and girls in Nigeria got very different education somehow I really don’t see how any environmental effect could cause the large disparity here. On the other hand the “girls get better grades than boys with equal IQ” confound seems a likely candidate to explain part of the difference. The developmental trend predicted by Lynn does not replicate consistently anyhow. Some studies find evidence it’s real. Others do not.

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    • Replies: @Pericles
    I recall Swedish grading and education being changed in the mid-90's so that girls would get better grades than before. For the sake of fairness, you see.

    I would say that education nowadays seems to prefer conscientiousness, agreeableness and sitzfleisch over actual intelligence.
  77. @Santoculto
    Flynn effect finish also for blacks in north America and some European countries? Would be interesting to compare south African elites by races to see if we similar enriched environments they still differ and with expected advantages for non-blacks. Representative differences among elites also can say something about general populations.

    The Flynn effect may not be finished for American blacks, but the difference in average scores as compared to whites is primarily on g-loaded test items, and the Flynn effect has very little to do with raising g. (I realize that you are not, as compared to brand-name intelligence researchers, a supporter of the concept of g, and I suggest you write something for peer review by a professional journal.)

    There has been roughly a one standard deviation difference in average scores for a hundred years despite a greatly improved environment for blacks over time. There is hardly any Flynn effect for a backwards digits test and a substantial racial difference remains.

    Blacks from household incomes of more than $100,000 score worse than Asians or whites reared in poverty.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    G concept is limited to psychometric comprehension and psychometric method deny the idea that intelligence is also psychological. G factor is not only a intelligence concept, it's a general concept for everything.

    What your understanding of g?? I'm curious.

    I doubt American blacks STILL don't "complete" Flynn effect.

    I know about black Americans. I'm talking about black Africans and south Africa seems a good place to start this analysis.

    Bear in mind seems no elite Africans were enslaved.

  78. @Commenting
    I can agree with that, test has its merits of course. But the authors suggest that "The use of Raven’s SPM would allow a strong test of sex differences in the g factor, because the Raven’s SPM is a test of reasoning ability known to be one of the best measures of general intelligence (Jensen, 1998; Mackintosh, 1996)."

    I don't think either Jensen or Mackintosh presented any data on this actually. Idea that the RPM is such a great measure of g seems to be a rumour that gets reiterated a lot

    Linda Gottfredson commented once “People say Raven’s is a good test of g simply because Jensen said so”. I think it is a good test of non-verbal intelligence, and it has particular merit because it has been used so often that there is considerable comparative data, and lots of item analysis data. On the downside, Raven does not publish everything for commercial reasons.

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    • Replies: @Commenting
    I would have to agree with Gottfredson there. In general I have no problem with researchers using the Raven's, they should just stop overstating its meaningfulness regarding g
  79. @James Thompson
    Linda Gottfredson commented once "People say Raven's is a good test of g simply because Jensen said so". I think it is a good test of non-verbal intelligence, and it has particular merit because it has been used so often that there is considerable comparative data, and lots of item analysis data. On the downside, Raven does not publish everything for commercial reasons.

    I would have to agree with Gottfredson there. In general I have no problem with researchers using the Raven’s, they should just stop overstating its meaningfulness regarding g

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  80. @Mao Cheng Ji

    For example, male muscular hypertrophy doesn’t happen until later in age as well, but it doesn’t mean that its purely environmental.
     
    That's not the issue. Anything is possible of course, but it seems clear that the idea that ability to solve logical puzzles (so-called 'intelligence') is gender-dependent suffers a big blow from this chart. Boys and girls are equally capable, and then, as socially-constructed gender roles kick in, it starts diverging. That's what I see on this chart, anyway. Obviously doctrinaires will insist on the doctrinal explanation...

    Boys and girls are equally flat-chested, and then, as socially-constructed gender roles kick in, it starts diverging.

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    • Agree: AP
    • Replies: @Pericles
    That is a masterclass meme that could engage feminism for a generation. My sincere congratulations.
  81. @phil
    The Flynn effect may not be finished for American blacks, but the difference in average scores as compared to whites is primarily on g-loaded test items, and the Flynn effect has very little to do with raising g. (I realize that you are not, as compared to brand-name intelligence researchers, a supporter of the concept of g, and I suggest you write something for peer review by a professional journal.)

    There has been roughly a one standard deviation difference in average scores for a hundred years despite a greatly improved environment for blacks over time. There is hardly any Flynn effect for a backwards digits test and a substantial racial difference remains.

    Blacks from household incomes of more than $100,000 score worse than Asians or whites reared in poverty.

    G concept is limited to psychometric comprehension and psychometric method deny the idea that intelligence is also psychological. G factor is not only a intelligence concept, it’s a general concept for everything.

    What your understanding of g?? I’m curious.

    I doubt American blacks STILL don’t “complete” Flynn effect.

    I know about black Americans. I’m talking about black Africans and south Africa seems a good place to start this analysis.

    Bear in mind seems no elite Africans were enslaved.

    Read More
    • Replies: @phil
    I do suspect that, insofar as many American blacks are of West African ancestry, they do not constitute a random sample of people from the western part of sub-Saharan Africa. On the other hand, they have about 20 percent white admixture on average, and the whites with which they have interbred are not a random sample of whites. It remains to be seen what the asymptotic IQs are for sub-Saharan Africans vs. African-Americans, but this research that Professor Thompson has highlighted does not bode well for the former group. Igbos may have higher-than-average scores for the group, but as evidenced by Christainsen's research in Intelligence (September-October 2013), poor living conditions do not offer a sufficient explanation for low African intelligence levels. Indeed, the cause-and-effect to a large extent seems to be that low intelligence is responsible for the poor living conditions (despite large deposits of oil).
  82. @Daniel Chieh

    Just based on averages? Suppose these days 40% of all women and 25% of all men like to cook. Why would you want to encourage anyone, or have any gendered policies based on this statistic? I see no reason.

     

    Because knowing so will overall make more happy, and among other things, possibly simplify and reduce the emotional and physical cost to maintain artificial impressions of equality and blank slatism?

    I’m sure this is a mere hypothesis, that it wasn’t common, then it was deemed attractive, and because of that after a while it became common. Not a very strong hypothesis imo.

     

    Evolution is a mere hypothesis too. I would say that the evidence is pretty damn strong. But moving on...

    But I don’t think humans tend behave like this, that they are eager to “biologically win”. In economically developed countries where they could easily afford a dozen, they typically have one or two. If one child becomes the norm, I don’t think they will be looking for ways to have children secretly outside. We are not like other animals in that we have human minds, we reflect, we don’t mindlessly follow primitive instincts. Our human minds have – and use – the veto power over our instincts.

     

    Do all humans think like this? No. Do some humans think like this? Yes. Do some humans engage in other behavior that perhaps causes them to have more children, like forget to use protection? Yes.

    As gcochran notes, we're "trending dumber" because perhaps the people who "do follow primitive instincts" are having more children, who also are more likely to "follow primitive instincts." Therefore, biological change occurs again.

    And if you actually have laws against having children, then you're encouraging the people who "follow primitive instinct, and are good at sneakily breaking the law." Great population you'll create there.

    Come on, man. You are a bright guy. You can follow the logic and you can realize that at the very least, we're coming from somewhere sensible. Whoever has more children, in the long run, replaces the population; increases his or her phenotype, and essentially, causes biological change to the population.

    Whoever has more children, in the long run, replaces the population; increases his or her phenotype, and essentially, causes biological change to the population.

    You caricature my position as believing in a ‘blank slate’. If I were to respond in kind, I would accuse you of ‘genetic determinism’. Someone will have (conceive) children, but they will become society members, with all that it entails. I don’t think that biological ancestry is all that important.

    Also, I don’t know it’s true for all the species of mammals, but isn’t it true for most species that the parents don’t relate to their grownup offsprings in any special way? Isn’t it also true that females have (more or less) the same fondness to all babies, not just their own? I don’t think there’s this specifically individualistic instinct of procreation in nature.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    This is where reading the draft for HBD information is helpful, it demonstrates the exact importance of biological ancestry. Much as adaptation to high altitudes came from "biological ancestry", so will adaptation to the social environment.

    Most evidence from twin studies, etc. shows that it is at least 50% of a person's personality; therefore, children with inherited characteristics to survive and propagate in the new environmental, including "societal cultural" values of the environment, will continue to spread their genes.

    And no, not all women show the same fondness for all babies at all. Consider how fairy tales often have the "evil stepmother" character; this stereotype exists because it has truth to it. I've known at least one woman who basically drove away every single stepchild out of her house at 18; others clearly favor their own children.

    And parents don't relate to grownup offspring in any special way? Aren't you Chinese? Is this some sort of joke?
  83. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Whoever has more children, in the long run, replaces the population; increases his or her phenotype, and essentially, causes biological change to the population.
     
    You caricature my position as believing in a 'blank slate'. If I were to respond in kind, I would accuse you of 'genetic determinism'. Someone will have (conceive) children, but they will become society members, with all that it entails. I don't think that biological ancestry is all that important.

    Also, I don't know it's true for all the species of mammals, but isn't it true for most species that the parents don't relate to their grownup offsprings in any special way? Isn't it also true that females have (more or less) the same fondness to all babies, not just their own? I don't think there's this specifically individualistic instinct of procreation in nature.

    This is where reading the draft for HBD information is helpful, it demonstrates the exact importance of biological ancestry. Much as adaptation to high altitudes came from “biological ancestry”, so will adaptation to the social environment.

    Most evidence from twin studies, etc. shows that it is at least 50% of a person’s personality; therefore, children with inherited characteristics to survive and propagate in the new environmental, including “societal cultural” values of the environment, will continue to spread their genes.

    And no, not all women show the same fondness for all babies at all. Consider how fairy tales often have the “evil stepmother” character; this stereotype exists because it has truth to it. I’ve known at least one woman who basically drove away every single stepchild out of her house at 18; others clearly favor their own children.

    And parents don’t relate to grownup offspring in any special way? Aren’t you Chinese? Is this some sort of joke?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    Consider how fairy tales often have the “evil stepmother” character; this stereotype exists because it has truth to it.
     
    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it's all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.

    And parents don’t relate to grownup offspring in any special way?
     
    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don't think so.

    I'm not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What's the difference?
  84. In Nigeria, those from the east are made to score higher marks to gain admission into government unity schools while the students from the north and west are to score lower marks.

    A survey conducted between 2002 and 2007 showed that the east have more people applying for higher education than any region in Nigeria and what was most surprising is that the east had more female going to school that males of other regions of Nigeria. The males from the east had more admission rate than the females and at some point were almost equal.

    http://nigeriaworld.com/articles/2009/feb/101.html

    it should be noted also that the eastern part of Nigeria(The Igbos), culturally are highly enterprising people who many times enroll their male child into learning a trade/skill once he is done with secondary school while his female counterpart is allowed to further her education up to university level. this practice is common especially among the poor who cannot bare the cost of a university education for their sons.A Male child in the east to decide very early in life if he is to further his education considering the family financial status or go learn a trade. if he is the eldest son, going forward, the family will be looking up to him to help raise his younger siblings. In turn the girl child is expected to graduate with good grades with the hope that she will get a good job and also marry a rich igbo businessman(who many not be as educated as she is)

    Abia – Male (130) Female (130)
    Adamawa – Male (62) Female (62)
    Akwa-Ibom – Male (123) Female (123)
    Anambra – Male (139) Female (139)
    Bauchi – Male (35) Female (35)
    Bayelsa – Male (72) Female (72)
    Benue – Male (111) Female (111)
    Borno – Male (45) Female (45)
    Cross-Rivers – Male (97) Female (97)
    Delta – Male (131) Female (131)
    Ebonyi – Male (112) Female (112)
    Edo – Male (127) Female (127)
    Ekiti – Male (119) Female (119)
    Enugu – Male (134) Female (134)
    Gombe – Male (58) Female (58)
    Imo – Male (138) Female (138)
    Jigawa – Male (44) Female (44)
    Kaduna – Male (91) Female (91)
    Kano – Male (67) Female (67)
    Kastina – Male (60) Female (60)
    Kebbi – Male (9) Female (20)
    Kogi – Male (119) Female (119)
    Kwara – Male (123) Female (123)
    Lagos – Male (133) Female(133)
    Nassarawa – Male (58) Female (58)
    Niger – Male (93) Female (93)
    Ogun – Male (131) Female (131)
    Ondo – Male (126) Female (126)
    Osun – Male (127) Female (127)
    Oyo – Male (127) Female (127)
    Plateau – Male (97) Female (97)
    Rivers – Male (118) Female (118)
    Sokoto – Male (9) Female (13)
    Taraba – Male (3) Female (11)
    Yobe – Male (2) Female (27)
    Zamfara – Male (4) Female (2)
    FCT Abuja – Male (90) Female (90)

    https://www.proshareng.com/news/People/The-Scandalous-Cut-Off-Marks-for-Unity-Schools—FEDERAL-CHARACTER-in-Nigeria/20169

    In Nigeria, the igbo are seen as very smart and intelligent hence there is a state sponsored system to limit them as they are seen as having the ability to dominate every sector of the economy which has in turn been the greatest fall of Nigeria, because the backwards and least qualified ones now rule the country while the smart and progressive ones are relegated to the background. That is why Nigeria has remained a third world country today after 60yrs of its Independence and the Igbos are still clamoring for Biafra. Nigeria have refused to take advantage of the igbo intelligence because of envy and jealousy. Nigeria has institutionalized tribalism, nepotism, mediocrity and quota system over merit

    http://www.naij.com/866751-controversy-ben-bruce-read-said.html?source=index_main

    http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/08/igbo-blessing-nigeria/

    http://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/03/hausa-students-not-smart-igbos-deemed-smart/

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    From your naij.com link:

    Disclosing this via his Facebook page, Ben Bruce said what has happened in the southeast is nothing short of a miracle.
    He said: "They receive some of the lowest federal allocation, yet they have achieved such remarkable educational and economic growth.
    There is something to be learned from them. Is it their policy? Is it their budgeting practice? Is it their sense of community? Whatever it is, it is working!"
     
    I don't know whether to be encouraged or discouraged to find out the inability to consider "Is it the students?" seems to be widespread.

    Your next to last link was an interesting account of Igbo accomplishments written by a non-Igbo. Thanks.
  85. @Daniel Chieh
    This is where reading the draft for HBD information is helpful, it demonstrates the exact importance of biological ancestry. Much as adaptation to high altitudes came from "biological ancestry", so will adaptation to the social environment.

    Most evidence from twin studies, etc. shows that it is at least 50% of a person's personality; therefore, children with inherited characteristics to survive and propagate in the new environmental, including "societal cultural" values of the environment, will continue to spread their genes.

    And no, not all women show the same fondness for all babies at all. Consider how fairy tales often have the "evil stepmother" character; this stereotype exists because it has truth to it. I've known at least one woman who basically drove away every single stepchild out of her house at 18; others clearly favor their own children.

    And parents don't relate to grownup offspring in any special way? Aren't you Chinese? Is this some sort of joke?

    Consider how fairy tales often have the “evil stepmother” character; this stereotype exists because it has truth to it.

    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it’s all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.

    And parents don’t relate to grownup offspring in any special way?

    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don’t think so.

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh

    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it’s all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.
     
    On the contrary, as far as the selfish gene is concerned, the rest of the species can go extinct so as long as its particular phenotype exists. Your notion makes no sense; if that was the case, men and women would generally care for all humans. Instead, we repeatedly see the historical pattern of men genociding neighboring tribes. If they are charitable, they spare the women as chattel.

    At any rate, we have pretty clearly documented history of it not being true. During the Great Leap Forward, starving mothers forced to cannibalism refused to kill their own babies and killed the babies of other mothers for food.

    Terrible, right? Yet, those are the survivors. Those genes will remain. The ones that followed the societal rules of "never commit cannibalism" and "never kill babies" are dead.


    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don’t think so.

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?

     

    Yes, cats do. In fact, if stressed, female cats will kill "strange smelling" kittens and eat them, basically those not of her own. Tomcats habitually kill unrelated kittens, regardless of stress.

    If you were Chinese, you'll understand that we have extremely strong parent-child bonds, partly cultural, partly genetic. I'm pretty advanced in age, but I still listen and give deference to my father, despite lots of frustrations.

    Kinship bonds among the Chinese are extremely powerful, and even non-kin are defined along those lines. Guanxi employs notions of fictive kin, for example.

    Anyway, self-identification is pretty silly. If you feel like a woman, are you a woman?

    , @Santoculto

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho&feature=youtu.be
  86. @venus
    In Nigeria, those from the east are made to score higher marks to gain admission into government unity schools while the students from the north and west are to score lower marks.

    A survey conducted between 2002 and 2007 showed that the east have more people applying for higher education than any region in Nigeria and what was most surprising is that the east had more female going to school that males of other regions of Nigeria. The males from the east had more admission rate than the females and at some point were almost equal.

    http://nigeriaworld.com/articles/2009/feb/101.html

    it should be noted also that the eastern part of Nigeria(The Igbos), culturally are highly enterprising people who many times enroll their male child into learning a trade/skill once he is done with secondary school while his female counterpart is allowed to further her education up to university level. this practice is common especially among the poor who cannot bare the cost of a university education for their sons.A Male child in the east to decide very early in life if he is to further his education considering the family financial status or go learn a trade. if he is the eldest son, going forward, the family will be looking up to him to help raise his younger siblings. In turn the girl child is expected to graduate with good grades with the hope that she will get a good job and also marry a rich igbo businessman(who many not be as educated as she is)


    Abia – Male (130) Female (130)
    Adamawa – Male (62) Female (62)
    Akwa-Ibom – Male (123) Female (123)
    Anambra – Male (139) Female (139)
    Bauchi – Male (35) Female (35)
    Bayelsa – Male (72) Female (72)
    Benue – Male (111) Female (111)
    Borno – Male (45) Female (45)
    Cross-Rivers – Male (97) Female (97)
    Delta – Male (131) Female (131)
    Ebonyi – Male (112) Female (112)
    Edo – Male (127) Female (127)
    Ekiti – Male (119) Female (119)
    Enugu – Male (134) Female (134)
    Gombe – Male (58) Female (58)
    Imo – Male (138) Female (138)
    Jigawa – Male (44) Female (44)
    Kaduna – Male (91) Female (91)
    Kano – Male (67) Female (67)
    Kastina – Male (60) Female (60)
    Kebbi – Male (9) Female (20)
    Kogi – Male (119) Female (119)
    Kwara – Male (123) Female (123)
    Lagos – Male (133) Female(133)
    Nassarawa – Male (58) Female (58)
    Niger – Male (93) Female (93)
    Ogun – Male (131) Female (131)
    Ondo – Male (126) Female (126)
    Osun – Male (127) Female (127)
    Oyo – Male (127) Female (127)
    Plateau – Male (97) Female (97)
    Rivers – Male (118) Female (118)
    Sokoto – Male (9) Female (13)
    Taraba – Male (3) Female (11)
    Yobe – Male (2) Female (27)
    Zamfara – Male (4) Female (2)
    FCT Abuja – Male (90) Female (90)

    https://www.proshareng.com/news/People/The-Scandalous-Cut-Off-Marks-for-Unity-Schools---FEDERAL-CHARACTER-in-Nigeria/20169



    In Nigeria, the igbo are seen as very smart and intelligent hence there is a state sponsored system to limit them as they are seen as having the ability to dominate every sector of the economy which has in turn been the greatest fall of Nigeria, because the backwards and least qualified ones now rule the country while the smart and progressive ones are relegated to the background. That is why Nigeria has remained a third world country today after 60yrs of its Independence and the Igbos are still clamoring for Biafra. Nigeria have refused to take advantage of the igbo intelligence because of envy and jealousy. Nigeria has institutionalized tribalism, nepotism, mediocrity and quota system over merit



    http://www.naij.com/866751-controversy-ben-bruce-read-said.html?source=index_main

    http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/08/igbo-blessing-nigeria/

    http://www.vanguardngr.com/2017/03/hausa-students-not-smart-igbos-deemed-smart/

    From your naij.com link:

    Disclosing this via his Facebook page, Ben Bruce said what has happened in the southeast is nothing short of a miracle.
    He said: “They receive some of the lowest federal allocation, yet they have achieved such remarkable educational and economic growth.
    There is something to be learned from them. Is it their policy? Is it their budgeting practice? Is it their sense of community? Whatever it is, it is working!”

    I don’t know whether to be encouraged or discouraged to find out the inability to consider “Is it the students?” seems to be widespread.

    Your next to last link was an interesting account of Igbo accomplishments written by a non-Igbo. Thanks.

    Read More
  87. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Consider how fairy tales often have the “evil stepmother” character; this stereotype exists because it has truth to it.
     
    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it's all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.

    And parents don’t relate to grownup offspring in any special way?
     
    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don't think so.

    I'm not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What's the difference?

    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it’s all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.

    On the contrary, as far as the selfish gene is concerned, the rest of the species can go extinct so as long as its particular phenotype exists. Your notion makes no sense; if that was the case, men and women would generally care for all humans. Instead, we repeatedly see the historical pattern of men genociding neighboring tribes. If they are charitable, they spare the women as chattel.

    At any rate, we have pretty clearly documented history of it not being true. During the Great Leap Forward, starving mothers forced to cannibalism refused to kill their own babies and killed the babies of other mothers for food.

    Terrible, right? Yet, those are the survivors. Those genes will remain. The ones that followed the societal rules of “never commit cannibalism” and “never kill babies” are dead.

    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don’t think so.

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?

    Yes, cats do. In fact, if stressed, female cats will kill “strange smelling” kittens and eat them, basically those not of her own. Tomcats habitually kill unrelated kittens, regardless of stress.

    If you were Chinese, you’ll understand that we have extremely strong parent-child bonds, partly cultural, partly genetic. I’m pretty advanced in age, but I still listen and give deference to my father, despite lots of frustrations.

    Kinship bonds among the Chinese are extremely powerful, and even non-kin are defined along those lines. Guanxi employs notions of fictive kin, for example.

    Anyway, self-identification is pretty silly. If you feel like a woman, are you a woman?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji

    In fact, if stressed, female cats will kill “strange smelling” kittens and eat them, basically those not of her own.
     
    Kittens, they do know, although I suspect not necessarily those who are genetically theirs, but those they're parenting, feeding. My question was: once their kittens grow up and become adult cats, do they still remember them? Do they have any special feelings for them?

    if that was the case, men and women would generally care for all humans
     
    True, we don't see this. Still, do people or animals have the mechanism to recognize their biological progeny? If we switch a new-born baby at the hospital, will the mother realize that the baby she's breastfeeding is not hers? It seems that your thesis would really benefit from such a mechanism, and it seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to evolve it.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Help all non Chinese please by giving your take on the significance of "Mao Cheng Ji's" moniker if indeed he is not Chinese (or if he is).
  88. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Consider how fairy tales often have the “evil stepmother” character; this stereotype exists because it has truth to it.
     
    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it's all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.

    And parents don’t relate to grownup offspring in any special way?
     
    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don't think so.

    I'm not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What's the difference?

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    That amusing video seems to me a straight copy of a Swedish version I think I saw posted on a UR thread. Interestimg question: are there culturally significant differences between the US and Swedish versions.

    BTW wouldn't 99 per cent of the problem of men's and women's "rest rooms" (a round of applause here from my fellow non-Americans at proof of absolute American supremacy in the coining and use of euphemisms) be solved by a rule that uncovered penises are not allowed in female toilets (apologies to the Mitford family for that euphemism)?

  89. @Daniel Chieh

    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it’s all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.
     
    On the contrary, as far as the selfish gene is concerned, the rest of the species can go extinct so as long as its particular phenotype exists. Your notion makes no sense; if that was the case, men and women would generally care for all humans. Instead, we repeatedly see the historical pattern of men genociding neighboring tribes. If they are charitable, they spare the women as chattel.

    At any rate, we have pretty clearly documented history of it not being true. During the Great Leap Forward, starving mothers forced to cannibalism refused to kill their own babies and killed the babies of other mothers for food.

    Terrible, right? Yet, those are the survivors. Those genes will remain. The ones that followed the societal rules of "never commit cannibalism" and "never kill babies" are dead.


    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don’t think so.

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?

     

    Yes, cats do. In fact, if stressed, female cats will kill "strange smelling" kittens and eat them, basically those not of her own. Tomcats habitually kill unrelated kittens, regardless of stress.

    If you were Chinese, you'll understand that we have extremely strong parent-child bonds, partly cultural, partly genetic. I'm pretty advanced in age, but I still listen and give deference to my father, despite lots of frustrations.

    Kinship bonds among the Chinese are extremely powerful, and even non-kin are defined along those lines. Guanxi employs notions of fictive kin, for example.

    Anyway, self-identification is pretty silly. If you feel like a woman, are you a woman?

    In fact, if stressed, female cats will kill “strange smelling” kittens and eat them, basically those not of her own.

    Kittens, they do know, although I suspect not necessarily those who are genetically theirs, but those they’re parenting, feeding. My question was: once their kittens grow up and become adult cats, do they still remember them? Do they have any special feelings for them?

    if that was the case, men and women would generally care for all humans

    True, we don’t see this. Still, do people or animals have the mechanism to recognize their biological progeny? If we switch a new-born baby at the hospital, will the mother realize that the baby she’s breastfeeding is not hers? It seems that your thesis would really benefit from such a mechanism, and it seems that it wouldn’t be too difficult to evolve it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Yes, cats continue to recognize each other later in life. Animals use a highly developed sense of smell and do indeed recognize kin.

    Humans don't have that, mother-child bonding occurs heavily during breastfeeding so its possible to break that link. But she'll still bond to "her child" and then work to benefit him or her. And there is probably at least some imprinting on facial features.

    Biologically, it hasn't really been necessary to evolve that because mothers were usually separated from their children so the children they breastfeed, would usually be their own children(or those of close kin like nephews or nieces, so there's still genetic benefit). If this kept being broken on a large scale, something like that would evolve.

  90. @Mao Cheng Ji

    In fact, if stressed, female cats will kill “strange smelling” kittens and eat them, basically those not of her own.
     
    Kittens, they do know, although I suspect not necessarily those who are genetically theirs, but those they're parenting, feeding. My question was: once their kittens grow up and become adult cats, do they still remember them? Do they have any special feelings for them?

    if that was the case, men and women would generally care for all humans
     
    True, we don't see this. Still, do people or animals have the mechanism to recognize their biological progeny? If we switch a new-born baby at the hospital, will the mother realize that the baby she's breastfeeding is not hers? It seems that your thesis would really benefit from such a mechanism, and it seems that it wouldn't be too difficult to evolve it.

    Yes, cats continue to recognize each other later in life. Animals use a highly developed sense of smell and do indeed recognize kin.

    Humans don’t have that, mother-child bonding occurs heavily during breastfeeding so its possible to break that link. But she’ll still bond to “her child” and then work to benefit him or her. And there is probably at least some imprinting on facial features.

    Biologically, it hasn’t really been necessary to evolve that because mothers were usually separated from their children so the children they breastfeed, would usually be their own children(or those of close kin like nephews or nieces, so there’s still genetic benefit). If this kept being broken on a large scale, something like that would evolve.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    Usually were -not- separated, rather.
    , @Mao Cheng Ji
    Thanks Daniel. Appreciate your patience.
  91. @Mao Cheng Ji

    cultural roles, given enough time, usually will cause biological difference and biological difference will inspire cultural roles.
     
    Your first assertion I find highly implausible. To affect biology, you would have to breed humans like dog, and that just doesn't happen. I'm pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology, unless by 'biology' you mean 'psychology'.

    Human beings are, first and foremost, social animals. 75 years ago masses of Germans were acting like bloodthirsty animals. And then within the span of a few decades they were socially re-conditioned to act like placid domesticated animals. Don't tell me their biology had changed. The only thing that had changed was social environment.

    biological difference will inspire cultural roles
     
    Biological phenomena are the foundation, but they don't dictate cultural norms. The necessity for survival and for prosperity (economy) of the tribe dictates cultural norms.

    For example: in a small shrinking tribe abortion (or any other kind of refusal to procreate) should be tabooed, forbidden. But in the modern China having a second child is forbidden, and sterilization and abortion may eventually become social norms. The right, moral things to do. So, yes, biology, but biology as means to an end, not biology as the destiny. And it's the same story with gender roles, I'm sure.

    “I’m pretty sure cultural norms will not change biology”

    What is gene-culture coevolution?

    You’d be interested in this book:

    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/dna-is-not-destiny-steven-j-heine/1123956915

    Just came out last month. I just finished it the other day. He makes some solid arguments.

    One thing he said is that all genes are height genes, then he claims that all genes are IQ genes and so looking for genes for either is stupid. Don’t know what I think about that… Here is an excerpt:

    View post on imgur.com

    Read More
  92. @Daniel Chieh
    Yes, cats continue to recognize each other later in life. Animals use a highly developed sense of smell and do indeed recognize kin.

    Humans don't have that, mother-child bonding occurs heavily during breastfeeding so its possible to break that link. But she'll still bond to "her child" and then work to benefit him or her. And there is probably at least some imprinting on facial features.

    Biologically, it hasn't really been necessary to evolve that because mothers were usually separated from their children so the children they breastfeed, would usually be their own children(or those of close kin like nephews or nieces, so there's still genetic benefit). If this kept being broken on a large scale, something like that would evolve.

    Usually were -not- separated, rather.

    Read More
  93. @Santoculto
    G concept is limited to psychometric comprehension and psychometric method deny the idea that intelligence is also psychological. G factor is not only a intelligence concept, it's a general concept for everything.

    What your understanding of g?? I'm curious.

    I doubt American blacks STILL don't "complete" Flynn effect.

    I know about black Americans. I'm talking about black Africans and south Africa seems a good place to start this analysis.

    Bear in mind seems no elite Africans were enslaved.

    I do suspect that, insofar as many American blacks are of West African ancestry, they do not constitute a random sample of people from the western part of sub-Saharan Africa. On the other hand, they have about 20 percent white admixture on average, and the whites with which they have interbred are not a random sample of whites. It remains to be seen what the asymptotic IQs are for sub-Saharan Africans vs. African-Americans, but this research that Professor Thompson has highlighted does not bode well for the former group. Igbos may have higher-than-average scores for the group, but as evidenced by Christainsen’s research in Intelligence (September-October 2013), poor living conditions do not offer a sufficient explanation for low African intelligence levels. Indeed, the cause-and-effect to a large extent seems to be that low intelligence is responsible for the poor living conditions (despite large deposits of oil).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Yes, lower intelligence is [if not] the most important factor to explain cycle of poverty but not only ''lower cognitive skills'' but moral ones too, aka, rationality. I believe most human societies invariably use the criteria ''motivation and force'' 'to select people' to the power, but: force tend to be negatively correlated with reason and motivation to reach certain levels still don't mean that person is better for that function or work, even because most people are also monetarily interested and not intrinsicaly. And elite cognitive/moral qualities is also extremely important if most people are followers.

    Poverty is also caused by assymmetry between cultural/technical levels and psycho-cognitive/evolutionary composite. For example, inuit people. Inuit people are smartly adapted to their ancestral environments, seems, they are perfectly fitted into this environments but when they go to live in the western canadian world they become unadaptated, not exactly because they have lower intelligence than non-inuit canadians but also because they has been shaped to live in specific environments.

    Just like exotic species who can live only in specific environments/lifestyle.

    Smarter also tend to mean ''generalist'', that can adapt in most environments.
  94. @res

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.
     
    I basically agree with this. Some questions though:
    1. What is the baseline? Looking at some of the African studies (e.g. the Wicherts table mentioned above) I'm not convinced the population you describe is well represented in the current numbers.
    2. How massive? Any thoughts on where you expect the African Flynn effect to top out in terms of average IQ?

    Thanks for providing your real world experiences. Does your wife have any experience with (and thoughts about) the Zambian elite?

    Indeed the idea of Raven”s Progressive Matrices being invalidated for testing tribal people whose culture precludes reliable counting is fascinating and potentially enlightening. I would hope to read James Thompson on that with particular reference to my question raising the need for an explanation of the Flynn Effect being more marked for Raven’s non verbal tests than for, e.g., vocabulary.

    Mind you we know Zambian Africans are capable of Wall Street style capitalidm in concept and practice as Mr. Mugabe’s co-predators can clearly count, and add, and possibly – if they can defer gratification – do compound interest calculations.

    Read More
  95. @Santoculto

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho&feature=youtu.be

    That amusing video seems to me a straight copy of a Swedish version I think I saw posted on a UR thread. Interestimg question: are there culturally significant differences between the US and Swedish versions.

    BTW wouldn’t 99 per cent of the problem of men’s and women’s “rest rooms” (a round of applause here from my fellow non-Americans at proof of absolute American supremacy in the coining and use of euphemisms) be solved by a rule that uncovered penises are not allowed in female toilets (apologies to the Mitford family for that euphemism)?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    What you want to say: there are cultural differences between Sweden and US... regards this facet of leftism??
    , @Santoculto
    The easy solution for this exaggerated dilema (thanks ((leftism))) is: create a third bathroom in public places.
    , @Anonymous
    Uncovered penises? So uncircumcised is ok!
  96. @Daniel Chieh

    Yes, but I was talking about babies. To put it a different way, if a newborn is switched at the hospital, the mother will not know it. A baby is a baby; as far as nature is concerned it’s all about the species, not the individual and his/her genes. Individual is nothing; come from dust, return to dust.
     
    On the contrary, as far as the selfish gene is concerned, the rest of the species can go extinct so as long as its particular phenotype exists. Your notion makes no sense; if that was the case, men and women would generally care for all humans. Instead, we repeatedly see the historical pattern of men genociding neighboring tribes. If they are charitable, they spare the women as chattel.

    At any rate, we have pretty clearly documented history of it not being true. During the Great Leap Forward, starving mothers forced to cannibalism refused to kill their own babies and killed the babies of other mothers for food.

    Terrible, right? Yet, those are the survivors. Those genes will remain. The ones that followed the societal rules of "never commit cannibalism" and "never kill babies" are dead.


    Humans do, but humans internalize social norms. Does it happen in the animal kingdom? Do cats distinguish between their 2-year-old offsprings and unrelated cats? I don’t think so.

    I’m not Chinese. But sometimes I feel like one. What’s the difference?

     

    Yes, cats do. In fact, if stressed, female cats will kill "strange smelling" kittens and eat them, basically those not of her own. Tomcats habitually kill unrelated kittens, regardless of stress.

    If you were Chinese, you'll understand that we have extremely strong parent-child bonds, partly cultural, partly genetic. I'm pretty advanced in age, but I still listen and give deference to my father, despite lots of frustrations.

    Kinship bonds among the Chinese are extremely powerful, and even non-kin are defined along those lines. Guanxi employs notions of fictive kin, for example.

    Anyway, self-identification is pretty silly. If you feel like a woman, are you a woman?

    Help all non Chinese please by giving your take on the significance of “Mao Cheng Ji’s” moniker if indeed he is not Chinese (or if he is).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Country_(novel)

    He seems to be an unironic Communist. Amusingly, the Communists killed almost all of my family who were nobility and later, major figures in the KMT.
  97. @James Thompson
    Thanks for all your points. I was intending to get into these issues in another full post, particularly on item analysis of Raven's tests and their characteristics as culture fair tests. I also need to post on presumed Nigerian exceptionalism.
    In the mean time, a more up to date reference than Wicherts is Heiner Rindermann "African cognitive ability: Research, results, divergences and recommendations." Personality and Individual Differences 55(3):229–233 · July 2013
    DOI: 10.1016/j.paid.2012.06.022
    Raven does not always publish relevant data, which is a nuisance.
    A more verbal test would help, but it is harder to ensure that they are culturally fair.
    There is still a case that any genetic group may have specific skills which would be revealed by new tests. However, we need to find these skills before we can add them in to our cross-cultural comparisons.
    Hope to turn to this after a few weeks.

    Yes please…. with particular reference to the gun that doesn’t smoke (OK it seemed OK as it first bounced into ghe cortex) – I mean the odd fact that the Flynn effect shows up more on Raven’s Matrices than on tests of vocabulary or simple numeracy. How can the more culturally determined abilities be less affected by the causes of the Flynn effect than the “culture fair”? That looms as a big question to me, and one that needs answering for the credit of those of us that think g and IQ matter.

    Read More
    • Replies: @phil
    "Culture fair" is a questionable term. The Armstrong-Woodley hypothesis is that the Flynn effect largely reflects the increased use of abstract frames of reference in our daily lives. We employ all sorts of "rules of thumb" and heuristic models to cope with complex challenges. When confronted with the Progressive Matrices, some people have had more practice with the use of abstract models than others. It is understandable that Nigerians would have had less of such practice than people in more developed countries, and this affects their test scores.

    Nevertheless, other evidence (backwards digits tests, tests of decision-making times, brain volumes, etc.) suggests that the scores of sub-Saharan Africans will still be lower even after adjustments have been made for the above point. Their average "genotypic" (or "asymptotic") IQ scores are (based on British norms) likely to be above 80, but may not be above 90.

    Ordinary Mainland Chinese who, in the past, have had average living standards comparable to those in sub-Saharan Africa, have been able to score at or above British levels.
  98. @Wizard of Oz
    Help all non Chinese please by giving your take on the significance of "Mao Cheng Ji's" moniker if indeed he is not Chinese (or if he is).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_Country_(novel)

    He seems to be an unironic Communist. Amusingly, the Communists killed almost all of my family who were nobility and later, major figures in the KMT.

    Read More
  99. @Daniel Chieh
    Yes, cats continue to recognize each other later in life. Animals use a highly developed sense of smell and do indeed recognize kin.

    Humans don't have that, mother-child bonding occurs heavily during breastfeeding so its possible to break that link. But she'll still bond to "her child" and then work to benefit him or her. And there is probably at least some imprinting on facial features.

    Biologically, it hasn't really been necessary to evolve that because mothers were usually separated from their children so the children they breastfeed, would usually be their own children(or those of close kin like nephews or nieces, so there's still genetic benefit). If this kept being broken on a large scale, something like that would evolve.

    Thanks Daniel. Appreciate your patience.

    Read More
  100. If Flynn effect specially this part: “British people in the 40′s have a avg IQ score around 70 to the actual standards” is credible so maybe it can be (or not) analogous to height. Avg taller people in 50′s had a avg height around 180cm while today they have a avg height around 190cm.

    Maybe verbal IQ tests changed little since the first models while non-verbal,namely matrices, have become more difficult even because psychometrics seems changed its emphasis from verbal-dominated tests to non-verbal (cultural fair) ones. Artificial improvement. As always wild speculations.

    Read More
  101. @James Thompson
    Agree that our personal experiences are most likely with elites who have left Africa. Intend to do a post calculating the smart fractions for all countries on which we have reasonable data. Heiner Rindermann has already done the bulk of the work, on the top 5% of the population in all countries.

    Within each country, Rindermann has estimated the score level that the Top 5% of that country are able to exceed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Anyone could take Lynn's or others' figures for the country averages then use Excel to give you the top 5 per cent's projected score assuming pure normal (Gaussian) distribution without fat tails and without any assortative mating (i.e.assuming it is all one randomly mating population which is usually the ridiculous unstated assumption even when figjres are given for Israel or India). So.... what has Rindermann done to add value?
  102. @Wizard of Oz
    Yes please.... with particular reference to the gun that doesn't smoke (OK it seemed OK as it first bounced into ghe cortex) - I mean the odd fact that the Flynn effect shows up more on Raven's Matrices than on tests of vocabulary or simple numeracy. How can the more culturally determined abilities be less affected by the causes of the Flynn effect than the "culture fair"? That looms as a big question to me, and one that needs answering for the credit of those of us that think g and IQ matter.

    “Culture fair” is a questionable term. The Armstrong-Woodley hypothesis is that the Flynn effect largely reflects the increased use of abstract frames of reference in our daily lives. We employ all sorts of “rules of thumb” and heuristic models to cope with complex challenges. When confronted with the Progressive Matrices, some people have had more practice with the use of abstract models than others. It is understandable that Nigerians would have had less of such practice than people in more developed countries, and this affects their test scores.

    Nevertheless, other evidence (backwards digits tests, tests of decision-making times, brain volumes, etc.) suggests that the scores of sub-Saharan Africans will still be lower even after adjustments have been made for the above point. Their average “genotypic” (or “asymptotic”) IQ scores are (based on British norms) likely to be above 80, but may not be above 90.

    Ordinary Mainland Chinese who, in the past, have had average living standards comparable to those in sub-Saharan Africa, have been able to score at or above British levels.

    Read More
  103. @phil
    I do suspect that, insofar as many American blacks are of West African ancestry, they do not constitute a random sample of people from the western part of sub-Saharan Africa. On the other hand, they have about 20 percent white admixture on average, and the whites with which they have interbred are not a random sample of whites. It remains to be seen what the asymptotic IQs are for sub-Saharan Africans vs. African-Americans, but this research that Professor Thompson has highlighted does not bode well for the former group. Igbos may have higher-than-average scores for the group, but as evidenced by Christainsen's research in Intelligence (September-October 2013), poor living conditions do not offer a sufficient explanation for low African intelligence levels. Indeed, the cause-and-effect to a large extent seems to be that low intelligence is responsible for the poor living conditions (despite large deposits of oil).

    Yes, lower intelligence is [if not] the most important factor to explain cycle of poverty but not only ”lower cognitive skills” but moral ones too, aka, rationality. I believe most human societies invariably use the criteria ”motivation and force” ‘to select people’ to the power, but: force tend to be negatively correlated with reason and motivation to reach certain levels still don’t mean that person is better for that function or work, even because most people are also monetarily interested and not intrinsicaly. And elite cognitive/moral qualities is also extremely important if most people are followers.

    Poverty is also caused by assymmetry between cultural/technical levels and psycho-cognitive/evolutionary composite. For example, inuit people. Inuit people are smartly adapted to their ancestral environments, seems, they are perfectly fitted into this environments but when they go to live in the western canadian world they become unadaptated, not exactly because they have lower intelligence than non-inuit canadians but also because they has been shaped to live in specific environments.

    Just like exotic species who can live only in specific environments/lifestyle.

    Smarter also tend to mean ”generalist”, that can adapt in most environments.

    Read More
  104. @phil
    Within each country, Rindermann has estimated the score level that the Top 5% of that country are able to exceed.

    Anyone could take Lynn’s or others’ figures for the country averages then use Excel to give you the top 5 per cent’s projected score assuming pure normal (Gaussian) distribution without fat tails and without any assortative mating (i.e.assuming it is all one randomly mating population which is usually the ridiculous unstated assumption even when figjres are given for Israel or India). So…. what has Rindermann done to add value?

    Read More
    • Replies: @phil
    Standard deviations differ somewhat across countries, and Rindermann converted PISA scores to IQ scales. It's one thing to say what can be done and another thing to be Rindermann; he really does it.
  105. @Wizard of Oz
    That amusing video seems to me a straight copy of a Swedish version I think I saw posted on a UR thread. Interestimg question: are there culturally significant differences between the US and Swedish versions.

    BTW wouldn't 99 per cent of the problem of men's and women's "rest rooms" (a round of applause here from my fellow non-Americans at proof of absolute American supremacy in the coining and use of euphemisms) be solved by a rule that uncovered penises are not allowed in female toilets (apologies to the Mitford family for that euphemism)?

    What you want to say: there are cultural differences between Sweden and US… regards this facet of leftism??

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Maybe. You tell me, though we probably suffer equivalent cultural handicaps for the task :-)
  106. @Wizard of Oz
    That amusing video seems to me a straight copy of a Swedish version I think I saw posted on a UR thread. Interestimg question: are there culturally significant differences between the US and Swedish versions.

    BTW wouldn't 99 per cent of the problem of men's and women's "rest rooms" (a round of applause here from my fellow non-Americans at proof of absolute American supremacy in the coining and use of euphemisms) be solved by a rule that uncovered penises are not allowed in female toilets (apologies to the Mitford family for that euphemism)?

    The easy solution for this exaggerated dilema (thanks ((leftism))) is: create a third bathroom in public places.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Can anyone use it? And why only one extra? Isn't everyone special in his/her/? own way?
  107. Anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Wizard of Oz
    That amusing video seems to me a straight copy of a Swedish version I think I saw posted on a UR thread. Interestimg question: are there culturally significant differences between the US and Swedish versions.

    BTW wouldn't 99 per cent of the problem of men's and women's "rest rooms" (a round of applause here from my fellow non-Americans at proof of absolute American supremacy in the coining and use of euphemisms) be solved by a rule that uncovered penises are not allowed in female toilets (apologies to the Mitford family for that euphemism)?

    Uncovered penises? So uncircumcised is ok!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    One can never have too much of a good thing so let's add Halosher public bathrooms to our shovel ready list of projects for the next recession's stimulus package.
  108. @Santoculto
    What you want to say: there are cultural differences between Sweden and US... regards this facet of leftism??

    Maybe. You tell me, though we probably suffer equivalent cultural handicaps for the task :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Err yes (or no) but I want to understand this part (don't ask me why).
  109. @Santoculto
    The easy solution for this exaggerated dilema (thanks ((leftism))) is: create a third bathroom in public places.

    Can anyone use it? And why only one extra? Isn’t everyone special in his/her/? own way?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Because only trans typos who tend to identify with opposite sex. Other 2000+++ new gender identifications seems not trans-genderic...
  110. @Anonymous
    Uncovered penises? So uncircumcised is ok!

    One can never have too much of a good thing so let’s add Halosher public bathrooms to our shovel ready list of projects for the next recession’s stimulus package.

    Read More
  111. @Wizard of Oz
    Maybe. You tell me, though we probably suffer equivalent cultural handicaps for the task :-)

    Err yes (or no) but I want to understand this part (don’t ask me why).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Are we perhaps guilty of microagressions in a public place? Shouldn't we consider our dignity and remember that we are dealing with a subject both sensitive and important? Or not, as the case may be.
  112. @Wizard of Oz
    Can anyone use it? And why only one extra? Isn't everyone special in his/her/? own way?

    Because only trans typos who tend to identify with opposite sex. Other 2000+++ new gender identifications seems not trans-genderic…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    Sorry,

    trans-gender seems different than trans-sex... if gender and sex is already different things, identification versus biology.

    The main idea of ''trans-gender'' start from the assumption the normative or prevalent gender is a ideal, as always happen, confounded with norm. But subjectively speaking the individual who already have that sexually-mixed feelings, namely about their sexual identity, it's not exactly a trans or identity-emmigrant if for them it's their natural way to interact and to understand reality.

    One of the greatest influence on post modernity and seems most people here don't take note is the existentialism... the very correct, creep and depressed idea that ''in the end, everyone will die someday'' so, leave that person identify with whatever thing s/he think more ''appropriate'' for it, in the end, this ''little things' don't matter, everyone will die.

    Leave that person marry with whateverone s/he want, in the end, we are finite creatures.

    It's appeal strongly to the existential/philosophical/self aware western trends, namely among those who are more brightly philosophical.
  113. @Santoculto
    Err yes (or no) but I want to understand this part (don't ask me why).

    Are we perhaps guilty of microagressions in a public place? Shouldn’t we consider our dignity and remember that we are dealing with a subject both sensitive and important? Or not, as the case may be.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Santoculto
    It's microscopically important, ;)

    Humans because their intelligence is obsessive opiniators/judges. So when we see a ''bug', for example, a trans-sex, we tend to categorize -him/her/hx as a problem to be solved or just a funny thing. We put in the same bag ''lack of basic sanitation'' and ''trans-sex''. Indeed the ''bizarre'' make us react in ''offensive'' ways. But just look for naked people. We believe naked people walking in streets is bizarre while it's just a normal thing, namely in intertropical/aka hot and humid places. Maybe we also tend to consider the scenario as criteria to give aesthetic judgment, what is appropriate and what's not appropriate, so called ''good sense''.

    Mico-agressions is by now a human way to interact/analyse and judge people via biological/evolutionary value, based on the way they are or behave.
  114. @Santoculto
    Because only trans typos who tend to identify with opposite sex. Other 2000+++ new gender identifications seems not trans-genderic...

    Sorry,

    trans-gender seems different than trans-sex… if gender and sex is already different things, identification versus biology.

    The main idea of ”trans-gender” start from the assumption the normative or prevalent gender is a ideal, as always happen, confounded with norm. But subjectively speaking the individual who already have that sexually-mixed feelings, namely about their sexual identity, it’s not exactly a trans or identity-emmigrant if for them it’s their natural way to interact and to understand reality.

    One of the greatest influence on post modernity and seems most people here don’t take note is the existentialism… the very correct, creep and depressed idea that ”in the end, everyone will die someday” so, leave that person identify with whatever thing s/he think more ”appropriate” for it, in the end, this ”little things’ don’t matter, everyone will die.

    Leave that person marry with whateverone s/he want, in the end, we are finite creatures.

    It’s appeal strongly to the existential/philosophical/self aware western trends, namely among those who are more brightly philosophical.

    Read More
  115. @Wizard of Oz
    Are we perhaps guilty of microagressions in a public place? Shouldn't we consider our dignity and remember that we are dealing with a subject both sensitive and important? Or not, as the case may be.

    It’s microscopically important, ;)

    Humans because their intelligence is obsessive opiniators/judges. So when we see a ”bug’, for example, a trans-sex, we tend to categorize -him/her/hx as a problem to be solved or just a funny thing. We put in the same bag ”lack of basic sanitation” and ”trans-sex”. Indeed the ”bizarre” make us react in ”offensive” ways. But just look for naked people. We believe naked people walking in streets is bizarre while it’s just a normal thing, namely in intertropical/aka hot and humid places. Maybe we also tend to consider the scenario as criteria to give aesthetic judgment, what is appropriate and what’s not appropriate, so called ”good sense”.

    Mico-agressions is by now a human way to interact/analyse and judge people via biological/evolutionary value, based on the way they are or behave.

    Read More
  116. @Wizard of Oz
    Anyone could take Lynn's or others' figures for the country averages then use Excel to give you the top 5 per cent's projected score assuming pure normal (Gaussian) distribution without fat tails and without any assortative mating (i.e.assuming it is all one randomly mating population which is usually the ridiculous unstated assumption even when figjres are given for Israel or India). So.... what has Rindermann done to add value?

    Standard deviations differ somewhat across countries, and Rindermann converted PISA scores to IQ scales. It’s one thing to say what can be done and another thing to be Rindermann; he really does it.

    Read More
  117. @Commenting
    This is a school sample so unless the boys and girls in Nigeria got very different education somehow I really don't see how any environmental effect could cause the large disparity here. On the other hand the "girls get better grades than boys with equal IQ" confound seems a likely candidate to explain part of the difference. The developmental trend predicted by Lynn does not replicate consistently anyhow. Some studies find evidence it's real. Others do not.

    I recall Swedish grading and education being changed in the mid-90′s so that girls would get better grades than before. For the sake of fairness, you see.

    I would say that education nowadays seems to prefer conscientiousness, agreeableness and sitzfleisch over actual intelligence.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Commenting
    Confound I mentioned exists precisely because personality matters for grades. Their IQ being equal girls tend to outperform boys in school leading to low IQ males dropping out whereas low IQ females work harder and get by. This may lead to a male IQ advantage - increasing with age - among schoolchildren (though this advantage is not always found)

    APA meta analysis claims girls have always achieved somewhat higher grades than boys but dunno about Sweden
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24773502
  118. @Harold
    Boys and girls are equally flat-chested, and then, as socially-constructed gender roles kick in, it starts diverging.

    That is a masterclass meme that could engage feminism for a generation. My sincere congratulations.

    Read More
  119. The validity of any longitudinal studies of IQ during child development is very questionable. Measuring IQ is not like measuring temperature. The same thermometer can be used to measure child and adult temperature and no corrections or scaling and offset need to applied to obtain “true” temperature. IQ scale for each age bracket is different and it is normalized under assumption that mean and stands deviation of IQ do not change with age. This is pretty audacious assumption.

    When testing IQ with Raven matrices one gets raw result (RR) of correctly answered questions from the total of 60. The raw result is converted to IQ by two coefficients S-slope and I-intercept which are age dependent. So for instance for Age-10 years:

    IQ(age 10)=S(age 10)*[RR+I(age 10)]

    How then the coefficients S(age 10) and I(age 10) are arrived at? Say that population of N of 10 year old children, say in England, produced RR results with Mean(RR) and St.Dev.(RR). Then S(age 10) and I(age 10) are selected in such a way so Mean(IQ(age 10))=100 and St.Dev(I(age 10))=15.

    The coefficients S and I are significantly different for different ages. The same raven matrix test, say produce Mean(RR)=20/60 for age 10 and say 25/60 at age 14.

    Why do they define scales this way? Because there is no other way. There is no absolute standard. It is all made up. But why did they decide to give each age bracket the same mean IQ? Because that’s what they do believe in. For them IQ is the number printed on your forehand the moment you are conceived.

    So what are the consequences of this approach? First, on average IQ does not change with age. But it must be kept in mind that this is not an empirical finding but a result of the definition of IQ scales. Unfortunately this fact is too often forgotten. The only fact here is that children solve correctly more Raven matrix puzzles as they get older. This is the only empirical truth here. IQ is mathematically constructed in such a way IQ on average doe snot change with age and has the same standard deviation.

    In true longitude studies one would track children and measure their IQ’s at different ages. What we hear about studies like that from people like author of this article: IQ is constant, i.e, independent of age. But this is not the conclusion.This is the assumption used when IQ scale were defined. But they still seem to be surprised and want us to be impressed with the result. What else do we hear? Heritability of IQ at, say age of 10 is 30% and in adulthood it is, say 80%. Yes, we heard it form the author of this article. Say it is true. Can heritability vary with age when at the same time we are told that IQ is constant during one’s lifetime. To measure heritability with twin studies to get 30% heritability IQ of the twins must differ more than twins that produce heritability of 80%, right?

    Let’s add to it the Flynn effect which by the tricks of scaling was overlooked (willingly or unwittingly) for years until James Flynn became a whistleblower and delivered, what he thought, would be the coup de grâce to this pseudo-science. Apparently the blow did not work. The beast is very resilient and seemingly has ability to survive by using Baron Münchausen trilemma tricks. They keep claiming that they can pull out of a mire by their own hair.

    Read More
  120. @Commenting
    Is the Raven's still regarded as a good test of general intelligene? They point to Jensen here but RPM scores didn't correlate that well with g in a recent study

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289615001002

    Gignac finds a correlation of g and Raven’s of about .70. Larger study of http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289607000931 finds a value of about .80 for the similar Cattell test.

    However, these are individual-level results, not group-level, which is what we are interested here. Unless there’s some very strong group differences in non-GCA factors, we won’t have a problem in this context.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Commenting
    Ah thanks, I hadn't seen the Johnson study yet. I agree that results such as this one can't be explained in large part by non-g factors but I don't think the idea of RPM being one of the best measures of g is really true
  121. Interesting how the image that illustrates this post seems express the psychological types of Sub Saharan people, or not-so.

    Read More
  122. @Pericles
    I recall Swedish grading and education being changed in the mid-90's so that girls would get better grades than before. For the sake of fairness, you see.

    I would say that education nowadays seems to prefer conscientiousness, agreeableness and sitzfleisch over actual intelligence.

    Confound I mentioned exists precisely because personality matters for grades. Their IQ being equal girls tend to outperform boys in school leading to low IQ males dropping out whereas low IQ females work harder and get by. This may lead to a male IQ advantage – increasing with age – among schoolchildren (though this advantage is not always found)

    APA meta analysis claims girls have always achieved somewhat higher grades than boys but dunno about Sweden

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24773502

    Read More
  123. @Emil Kirkegaard
    Gignac finds a correlation of g and Raven's of about .70. Larger study of http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289607000931 finds a value of about .80 for the similar Cattell test.

    However, these are individual-level results, not group-level, which is what we are interested here. Unless there's some very strong group differences in non-GCA factors, we won't have a problem in this context.

    Ah thanks, I hadn’t seen the Johnson study yet. I agree that results such as this one can’t be explained in large part by non-g factors but I don’t think the idea of RPM being one of the best measures of g is really true

    Read More
  124. @res

    Raven matrices will be confounded by such effects. There is a massive Flynn effect waiting to break out in rural Africa.
     
    I basically agree with this. Some questions though:
    1. What is the baseline? Looking at some of the African studies (e.g. the Wicherts table mentioned above) I'm not convinced the population you describe is well represented in the current numbers.
    2. How massive? Any thoughts on where you expect the African Flynn effect to top out in terms of average IQ?

    Thanks for providing your real world experiences. Does your wife have any experience with (and thoughts about) the Zambian elite?

    Well, one young Zambian woman from the elite had to go to Malaysia to study for a degree because no other top 100 Universities would take a 16 year old. (Cambridge does for Maths but she wanted to study business). By 19 she was completing her Master’s in International Development in Cardiff. I am meeting a guy who is promoting a utility scale solar farm in three weeks time. He seems to combine qualifications in medicine (mental illness) and engineering. So some, at least, are really rather good. Beyond these anecdotes, I can say nothing systematic.

    It is worth noting that Zambia is peaceful and tolerant (the last Vice President was white; Indian shopkeepers are still around).

    Read More
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