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IQ Does Not Exist (Lead Poisoning Aside)
Lead poisoning reduces social mobility
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Lead_poisoning There are still many people who believe that intelligence does not exist or that it cannot be measured, particularly if the summary result is given as a single figure. The argument seems to be that single figure cannot possibly represent their myriad abilities. Quite so.

What are they to make of a recent finding by the Dunedin study team? This is an epidemiologically based study of child development in Dunedin, New Zealand, and it suggests that lead ingested in childhood is bad for intelligence and for later social mobility. If you maintain that intelligence does not exist, you need not be concerned.

March 28, 2017
Association of Childhood Blood Lead Levels with Cognitive Function and Socioeconomic Status at Age 38 Years and With IQ Change and Socioeconomic Mobility Between Childhood and Adulthood
Aaron Reuben; Avshalom Caspi; Daniel W. Belsky; et al

The authors say:

A prospective cohort study based on a population-representative 1972-1973 birth cohort from New Zealand; the Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study observed participants to age 38 years (until December 2012).
EXPOSURES
Childhood lead exposure ascertained as blood lead levels measured at age 11years. High blood lead levels were observed among children from all socioeconomic status levels in this cohort.
MAIN OUTCOMES AND MEASURES
The IQ (primary outcome) and indexes of Verbal Comprehension, Perceptual Reasoning, Working Memory, and Processing Speed (secondary outcomes) were assessed at age 38 years using the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale–IV (WAIS-IV; IQ range, 40-160). Socioeconomic status (primary outcome) was assessed at age 38 years using the New Zealand Socioeconomic Index-2006 (NZSEI-06; range, 10 [lowest]-90 [highest]).
RESULTS
Of 1037 original participants, 1007 were alive at age 38 years, of whom 565 (56%) had been lead tested at age 11 years (54% male; 93% white). Mean (SD) blood lead level at age 11 years was 10.99 (4.63) μg/dL. Among blood-tested participants included at age 38 years, mean WAIS-IV score was 101.16 (14.82) and mean NZSEI-06 score was 49.75 (17.12). After adjusting for maternal IQ, childhood IQ, and childhood socioeconomic status, each 5-μg/dL higher level of blood lead in childhood was associated with a 1.61-point lower score (95% CI, −2.48 to −0.74) in adult IQ, a 2.07-point lower score (95% CI, −3.14 to −1.01) in perceptual reasoning, and a 1.26-point lower score (95% CI, −2.38 to −0.14) in working memory. Associations of childhood blood lead level with deficits in verbal comprehension and processing speed were not statistically significant. After adjusting for confounders, each 5-μg/dL higher level of blood lead in childhood was associated with a 1.79-unit lower score (95% CI, −3.17 to −0.40) in socioeconomic status. An association between greater blood lead levels and a decline in IQ and socioeconomic status from childhood to adulthood was observed with 40% of the association with downward mobility mediated by cognitive decline from childhood.
CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE
In this cohort born in New Zealand in 1972-1973, childhood lead exposure was associated with lower cognitive function and socioeconomic status at age 38 years and with declines in IQ and with downward social mobility. Childhood lead exposure may have long-term ramifications. JAMA. 2017;317(12):1244-1251. doi: 10.1001/jama.2017.1712

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3c4TxciNeJZTS1JYU9FT2UxUDQ

The big advantage of this sample is that it is very well drawn up to be representative of the New Zealand population, and by implication representative of European populations. It has been closely studied and assiduously followed up. Happily, we also have a good genetic study of the participants, so it is apposite to give those results. Sorry for this nested parenthetical approach, but it provides context.

The Genetics of Success: How Single-Nucleotide Polymorphisms Associated With Educational Attainment Relate to Life-Course Development.

Daniel W. Belsky, Terrie E. Moffitt, David L. Corcoran, Benjamin Domingue, HonaLee Harrington, Sean Hogan, Renate Houts, Sahttp://www.paulgraham.com/say.htmlendhya Ramrakha, Karen Sugden, Benjamin S. Williams, Richie Poulton, Avshalom Caspi.

June 1, 2016. Psychological Science Vol 27, Issue 7, 2016

Abstract
A previous genome-wide association study (GWAS) of more than 100,000 individuals identified molecular-genetic predictors of educational attainment. We undertook in-depth life-course investigation of the polygenic score derived from this GWAS using the four-decade Dunedin Study (N = 918). There were five main findings. First, polygenic scores predicted adult economic outcomes even after accounting for educational attainments. Second, genes and environments were correlated: Children with higher polygenic scores were born into better-off homes. Third, children’s polygenic scores predicted their adult outcomes even when analyses accounted for their social-class origins; social-mobility analysis showed that children with higher polygenic scores were more upwardly mobile than children with lower scores. Fourth, polygenic scores predicted behavior across the life course, from early acquisition of speech and reading skills through geographic mobility and mate choice and on to financial planning for retirement. Fifth, polygenic-score associations were mediated by psychological characteristics, including intelligence, self-control, and interpersonal skill. Effect sizes were small. Factors connecting DNA sequence with life outcomes may provide targets for interventions to promote population-wide positive development.

Of course, this is the sort of snappy title and genetic finding which drives some people to doubt the existence of intelligence. It is against this background that the neurotoxic effects of lead are interesting. Crucially, lead exposure in New Zealand in the 1980s did not follow a social class gradient. It mostly came from car exhausts, and was thus an equal opportunity toxin.

Of 1037 participants in the original cohort, 1007 were still alive at age 38 years, 565 (56%) of whom had been lead tested at age 11 years (303 [54%] male; 525 [93%] white). Participants alive at age 38 years with childhood blood lead data (n=565) and without childhood blood lead data (n=442) did not differ to a statistically significant extent from each other in terms of their mothers’ IQ scores or their social class origins, but those without blood lead data did have lower mean childhood IQ scores as a group.

The differences are not big, but they are linear, suggesting a dose-response relationship.
Lead levels IQ and social mobility

The correlation between childhood blood level and age 38 IQ is merely -.11 which is the sort of size I usually ignore, yet the mean differences are instructive, as shown above.

Lead and child and maternal IQ

Table 2 is interesting at many levels. Maternal IQ, tested on verbal material only, correlates at r= 0.38 with child IQ, and rises to r= 0.44 at age 38, long after the child has left home, which is the typical pattern. Childhood IQ is a better predictor of socio-economic status at age 38 (r= 0.43) than childhood economic status (r= 0.35).

The net result is that after controlling for participants’ own childhood IQ score, their mothers’ IQ score, and their socioeconomic background, each 5-μg/dL higher level of blood lead in childhood was associated with an additional 1.61-point lower score (95% CI, −2.48 to −0.74; P<.001) in the full scale IQ.

Children with higher levels of blood lead at age 11 years scored lowest on indexes tapping perceptual reasoning and working memory.

First, childhood blood lead level was associated with lower adult IQ scores nearly 3 decades later, reflecting cognitive decline following childhood lead exposure. There were significant associations between childhood blood lead levels and lower scores on the Perceptual Reasoning IQ and the Working Memory IQ, but no significant association with the Verbal Comprehension IQ or the Processing Speed IQ. These associations remained significant after adjusting for the participants’ childhood IQs, their mothers’ IQs, and their social class backgrounds.

Second, childhood blood lead level was associated with lower adult socioeconomic status, reflecting downward social mobility following childhood lead exposure. These associations too remained significant after adjusting for the participants’ childhood IQs, their mothers’ IQs, and their social class backgrounds.

Third, the relationship between childhood lead exposure and downward social mobility by midlife was partially but significantly mediated by cognitive decline following childhood lead exposure.

In conclusion, this study shows how a neuro-toxin can have an effect on intelligence, of similar magnitude to low birth weight. By the way, intelligence can be influenced by the environment despite having a large genetic component. By the way, the effect shows up on the “single figure” of Wechsler Full Scale IQ, and by looking at the 10 subtests you can identify which abilities are most affected. The exposure to lead decreases ability (one figure) and thereby reduces achieved socio-economic status (one figure). No surprise for us, but possibly a surprise to some sociologists. The effect is not uniform, and it is not clear why something like Processing Speed is unaffected. Processing speed certainly slows with age and is often poor in children with brain related disorders. This is minor puzzle in the general picture, but since this is an excellent representative sample it is more likely to be right than the necessarily selective clinical brain damage samples.

Final word: if someone tells you they do not believe in intelligence reply that you wish them well, but that if they have children they should keep them well away from neuro-toxins because, among other things, they reduce social mobility.

 
• Category: Science • Tags: IQ, Lead Poisoning 
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  1. JayMan says: • Website

    Here’s my problem with this study: it doesn’t really address the genetic confound. Yes, it’s totally plausible that lead negatively impacts IQ, but then it also sounded plausible that neighborhood deprivation did so, as well.

    I’d feel much more comfortable if someone had large pedigree study on lead exposure akin to Amir Sariaslan’s work (Sariaslan et al 2016).

  2. @JayMan

    Thanks Jayman. Not sure about that. Sure, Amir was able to show that social drift accounted for the loss of SES in schizophrenia, but I think that the Dunedin study does not have too much of a problem in that regard. I will think about it further.

  3. @James Thompson

    I tend to, rather unsurprisingly, agree with JayMan on this. There is substantial non-random selection into deprived neighbourhoods, where the lead exposure is presumably higher. One would need to account for such effects by using adequate research designs that can handle unmeasured confounders.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
    , @Harold
  4. FKA Max says:

    I just watched Emil Kirkegaard’s recent Youtube interview, in which lead poisoning was one of the topics discussed in regards to IQ. Mr. Kirkegaard stated, that there had not been any “environmental” ways to boost IQ found yet, only “environmental” causes which depressed IQ, e.g., he gave the example of lead poisoning; but as I understand it, iodine has been found and confirmed to be a quite significant “environmental” factor in boosting IQ, and it is also relatively easy and cost-effective to do so. Am I wrong? Is the iodine-IQ story/research just “fake (feel good) news?”:

    According to public health experts, iodisation of salt may be the world’s simplest and most cost-effective measure available to improve health, only costing US$0.05 per person per year.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/height-changes-from-1914-2014/#comment-1506435

    Iodine Deficiency – An Old Epidemic Is Back
    The mineral is much more important tha[n] most realize
    [...]
    Scientists James Feyrer, Dimitra Politi, and David N. Weil have found in the U.S. that the proliferation of iodized salt increased IQ by 15 points in some areas.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/what-do-iq-researchers-really-think-about-the-flynn-effect/#comment-1706913

    Lead poisoning is briefly discussed from about 10 minutes into the video:

    Emil OW Kirkegaard: IQ And The Future Of Eugenics

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @anon
  5. There are still many people who believe that intelligence does not exist or that it cannot be measured, particularly if the summary result is given as a single figure.

    These are two very different propositions, you know. It seems to me that anyone with IQ above 60 should understand that ‘intelligence’, by almost any definition, can not indeed be measured by a single number.

    • Agree: CanSpeccy
  6. There are still many people who believe that intelligence does not exist or that it cannot be measured, particularly if the summary result is given as a single figure. The argument seems to be that single figure cannot possibly represent their myriad abilities. Quite so.

    old can’t learn new tricks, it’s sad!1

    Two person with same ”general” IQ:

    Different personalities: different intrinsic motivations, different levels of CHARACTER [something many hbdds lacrimously accuse on the left to no have], different levels of psychological resilience, ETC

    Different ´PSYCHO-cognitive styles: H-verb/ L-quantit or High-emphatizing/L-systemizing, ETC…

    You just repeat the same thing since, i even don’t know more…

    No doubt ”hyper-systemizing typos” are not full-humans but proto-robots incapable to understand and be interested in many nuances that human mind usually have.

    It’s not pay attention to this details but just repeat the same vague informations about IQ, intelligence, whatever, cognitive psycho-logy.

    If every people with the same general IQ is also the same or very similar in other variables OR even with this diversity they still would produce the same results, i would not disagree with you. ”Even” in intelligence ACHIEVEMENTS they usually are very different.

    Yes i’m more emphatizing than systemizing, and this de-being-zation or massification of beings treating them as cold bricks in the wall no make sense for me.

    When IQ tests embodied creativity AND ratio-nality tests i will start to agree with you, more than now.

    Just because we have ”higher IQ” individuals who lacks character/rationality governing the west [well, since...], in other words, we treat intelligence as separated from psychological traits, creates a systemizing-meritocratic system to the above middle classes and sustain a malignantly emphasizing- elites, that all this problems are, again, happening.

  7. @Amir Sariaslan

    But there was no social gradient to this exposure, authors said..

    • Replies: @Amir Sariaslan
  8. @James Thompson

    There may be other types of selection mechanisms that are not accounted for. We need better data and research designs to be more certain about the causal nature of the associations.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  9. @Amir Sariaslan

    Ok. Now we look at the Italian study David Piffer mentioned. Also apparent lead effect on IQ in Italy. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935112002344

    Haven’t read it yet, because bedtime. Cheers

  10. FKA Max says:

    FYI:

    Only telling half the story, but at least IQ somewhat exists.

    Good News for the Older Mothers

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/well/family/good-news-for-the-older-mothers.html

    Alice Goisis, a research fellow at the London School of Economics and Political Science and the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research in Germany, and the lead author on the study, said, “the characteristics of older mothers have changed drastically over time.” In the older studies, she said, the women who were having children into their late 30s were more likely to be women who had many children, and possibly poorer, whereas in the later study, the millennium cohort study done in 2000-2, the older mothers were more likely to be educated, and socioeconomically better off. Twenty-six percent were giving birth to their first child at ages 35-39, as opposed to 11 percent in the 1958 study.

    “One question I am often asked is whether these results are suggesting that women should wait to have children so they will have smarter children, and the answer is that our results are not addressing that,” Dr. Goisis said.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  11. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Conflicting and contradictory evidence. My personal opinion is that iodine is important to cognitive development. Also the authors of the first study referenced did not specify, as far as I could tell, if the study was conducted in (historically) naturally iodine sufficient (IS) or in severely iodine deficient (ID) areas; they just mentioned that “universal salt iodization has been implemented in all counties in China since 1995”:

    Emil OW Kirkegaard‏ @KirkegaardEmil

    No effect of folic acid or iron supplements or multimicronutrient (15 vit and mins) on IQ in rural China. N=1744.

    https://twitter.com/kirkegaardemil/status/689494681554542592

    Prenatal Micronutrient Supplementation Is Not Associated with Intellectual Development of Young School-Aged Children Li et al. (2015) http://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/Prenatal-Micronutrient-Supplementation-Is-Not-Associated-with-Intellectual-Development-of-Young-School-Aged-Children.pdf

    In addition, iodine deficiency is associated with poor development, and iodine deficiency during pregnancy has negative effects on the developing fetus and mental development of the offspring. However, universal salt iodization has been implemented in all counties in China since 1995, individual iodine nutrition has improved, and the current iodine nutrition status of the population is adequate (20).

    Siberian Fox‏ @SilverVVulpes
    Replying to @PsyBrief

    @PsychologyBrief @KirkegaardEmil mums diet and early diet of child(i.e. mil of the baby)

    https://twitter.com/SilverVVulpes/status/690922132876980224

    The effects of iodine on intelligence in children: a meta-analysis of studies conducted in China Qian et al. (2005)

    http://apjcn.org/update%5Cpdf%5C2005%5C1%5C32-42%5C32.pdf

    The intelligence damage of children exposed to severe ID was profound, demonstrated by 12.45 IQ points loss and they recovered 8.7 IQ points with iodine supplementation or IS before and during pregnancy. Iodine supplementation before and during pregnancy to women living in severe ID areas could prevent their children from intelligence deficit. This effect becomes evident in children born 3.5 years after the iodine supplementation program was introduced.

  12. hyperbola says:

    In medically related GWAS studies of “complex” diseases (e.g. Parkinsons), it is rather usual to find that large numbers of genetic variants can be related to the disease, but that many of them are neither necessary or sufficient. That is, inheritance of such a variant gene is statistically related to a cohort of people with the disease, but people with the disease do not necessarily have the genetic difference and those with the genetic variant do not necessarily have the disease.
    In short, the evidence is often that it is networks of large numbers of genetic changes that produce genetic susceptibility to specific genes. Conversely, single gene variants are often related to “rare” diseases (and usually considered to be about 1% of disease loading in a population).
    This means that all the “shortcuts” being taken by naive genetic screening are pretty useless. In the case of Parkinsons, the ca. 40 genes involved in the human population can only “explain” about 50% of inheritable effects, with the caveats noted above for individual genes.

    The general lesson is that we are dealing with very complex, highly integrated networks where it is the network rather than individual genes (factors) that is determinant. With sufficient complexity, individual effects are largely unknowable.

    “Intelligence” (whatever that is) may be a similar, partly unknowable complex network.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
    , @anon
  13. @hyperbola

    As I understand it, it is generally agreed that what we call intelligence is based on many genes of small effect, most with more than one effect.

    • Replies: @hyperbola
  14. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The argument seems to be that single figure cannot possibly represent their myriad abilities. Quite so.

    Taken literally, that is as they say.
    But g, which I prefer to IQ (and I wonder why you mention so many fewer times than IQ) is a fabulous approximation (the best available), and it precisely represent some of those myriad cognitive abilities.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  15. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    wwebd said: g is the best approximation over large numbers of people faced with unchallenging but complicated cognitive tasks, but it is no more than that.
    Anecdotal evidence, which will be gathered by AIs over the next few decades, will of course demonstrate that any given individual, asked to rank a hundred individuals with which he or she is familiar, will most likely rank the person with the highest g as at the best at accomplishing ‘cognitive tasks’.
    That being said, the AI gathered evidence will run several billion regression analyses which may have interesting results.
    And the version of g that the well-informed of the future will consider the best approximation will be much more loaded towards creativity – even in ranked cohorts of hundreds, and fantastically much more so in ranked cohorts of thousands and millions – than the current g is.
    Genes, prenatal health, a complete lack of iatrogenic and parental negative load, and local golden ages of Christian religious belief in the obvious megalopolis of secular and ideologically religious mystical beliefs will be where these predictions seem most accurate. Maybe.
    And, just as nobody cares anymore about the portrait of Dora Marr, nobody will feel anything but pity for the poor scientific geniuses (I am thinking more von Neumann than Kolmogorov here – check out their relative bios) who spent their lives scrambling to discover little tricks of number theory just moments or just days or months ahead of their rivals. (just kidding about von Neumann but wow that is one weird biography).
    On the other hand, maybe there are no golden ages ahead. There will still be lots of good art and lots of good food and nice people, one hopes, anyway. The eccentric mania for measurement will subside and maybe, as it (i.e., the world) rejoiced, in its way, in the very complex and uncharted cities of China of just three generations ago, the world will again rejoice, to a certain extent, in being unmapped.
    How about that.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
    , @utu
  16. @anonymous

    A fine essay. If creativity is to be the best guide to real ability, then it will be interesting to see if measures of creativity differ very much from measures of high ability.
    Rex Jung is working on that issue, and tells me he is beginning to doubt that there is very much difference between them.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/heave-half-brick-at-creativity

    • Replies: @anonymous
  17. dearieme says:

    “g is the best approximation over large numbers of people faced with unchallenging but complicated cognitive tasks, but it is no more than that.”

    Quite. And Newton’s Theory of Gravitation is just an approximation that has proved useful for understanding a wide range of apparently distinct phenomena, but it is no more than that.

  18. hyperbola says:
    @James Thompson

    Yep. Pretty much the same as complex diseases, where individual genes (really proteins) may have many effects. In such complex systems, “statistics” proving the involvement of a single factor are often not really very informative. I suspect that much of current genetic screening is too naive to be useful (how do we get to a useful level of networks?) and suspect that the same is probably true for “intelligence” factors.

    Maybe a “hopeful” factor in these days of “big data rules” is the realization that the number of factors and degree of complex integration means that we are all unique and “big data” will always have only limited success?

  19. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    I just had another look at the NY Times article, specifically this sentence:

    “These women tend to be advantaged,” she said, and to take better care of themselves during pregnancy; they were less likely to smoke and more likely to breast-feed, compared to the younger mothers.

    Then I listened to this interview with Stuart Ritchie:

    Does Breastfeeding Increase IQ?
    More or Less: Behind the Stats

    A major 30-year study claims to show breastfed babies become more intelligent, higher earning adults. It’s not the first time we’ve heard that breastfeeding raises IQ levels; but is this evidence any more convincing? Ruth Alexander and Hannah Moore explore the details with Dr Stuart Ritchie from The University of Edinburgh.
    This programme was first broadcast on the BBC World Service.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02rzdl8

    Mr. Ritchie doubts that breastfeeding increases cognitive ability, because the parents in the Brazilian study were not specifically tested for IQ, and he believes this to be a significant confounder/weakness of the study.

    Since my other comments in this thread were mostly concerning the relationship between iodine deficiency and lowered cognitive functioning/ability, I checked whether there were any differences in the iodine content of breast milk and infant formula. Again, there is conflicting evidence on the subject:

    Formula as Good as Breastmilk for Iodine Levels (2013)

    The mean age of the mothers was about 33, 62% were white, and 56% had a graduate or professional degree.
    Overall, Leung and colleagues found similar concentrations of urinary iodine across groups, and all met iodine sufficiency standards
    [...]
    Leung warned, however, that the study was limited because several potential confounders — including iodine concentrations of maternal urine, breastmilk, maternal multivitamins, and infant formula — were not measured.

    Also, the study involved a Boston-area convenience sample, making it a homogeneous population and it may not be representative of the general U.S. population. More studies would be needed to confirm whether these findings are similar for infants nationwide, she said.

    Iodine content of infant formulas and iodine intake of premature babies: high risk of iodine deficiency. Ares et al. (1994) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7820714

    As part of a study of thyroid function in premature babies, the iodine content of their mothers’ breast milk, that of 32 formulas from different brands used in Spain, and that of 127 formulas used in other countries was determined. Breast milk contained more iodine–mean (SEM) 10 (1) microgram/dl–than most of the formulas, especially those for premature babies. Iodine intakes were therefore below the recommended daily amount (RDA) for newborns: babies of 27-30 weeks’ gestational age took 3.1 (1.1) micrograms/day at 5 days of age and 29.8 (2.7) micrograms by 2 months of age. This problem is not exclusive to Spanish premature babies as the iodine content of many of the formulas on sale in other countries was also inadequate. It is concluded that preterm infants who are formula fed are at high risk of iodine deficiency.

    Could breastfeeding actually increase the IQ of infants due to breast milk containing more iodine on average than infant formula, if the mothers themselves are not suffering from iodine deficiency?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @alan2102
    , @anon
  20. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    I forgot to give the link to the article:

    Formula as Good as Breastmilk for Iodine Levels

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/meetingcoverage/ata/42372

    Some more papers from Leung et al. on the topic:

    Iodine Nutrition in Pregnancy and Lactation Leung et al. (2011) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3266621/

    Adequate iodine nutrition during pregnancy and lactation is needed for thyroid hormone synthesis and normal neurodevelopment of the developing fetus in utero and in the breastfed infant. Iodine deficiency during pregnancy has been associated with impairments of infant neurologic and psychological outcomes.
    [...]
    Although the overall adult population in the United States remains iodine sufficient in recent national surveys, a subset of pregnant and lactating women may have inadequate dietary iodine intake. A public health approach has been undertaken to achieve recommended median urinary iodine concentrations during pregnancy and lactation.
    [...]
    Further studies are needed to assess the impact of environmental exposures to substances that may interfere with iodine use.

    Breastmilk Iodine Concentrations Following Acute Dietary Iodine Intake Leung et al. (2012) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3487113/

    Following ingestion of 600 μg KI, there is a measurable rise in breastmilk iodine concentrations, with peak levels occurring at 6 hours. These findings strongly suggest that breastmilk iodine concentrations should be interpreted in relation to recent iodine intake.

    ———————

    Iodine Supplementation in the Newborn Ghirri et al. (2014) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3916868/

    Iodine deficiency can be defined as the world’s greatest single cause of preventable brain damage. Prevention of fetal and neonatal hypothyroidism, caused by iodine deficiency, starts prior to conception and then continues during pregnancy and lactation ensuring an adequate iodine supplementation. Studies on healthy preterm and full-term newborns lead to believe that the iodine intake required to maintain a positive balance are 15 µg/kg/day in full-term newborns and 30 µg/kg/day, and up to 60 µg/kg/day, in preterm babies. In the term newborn, an adequate iodine intake is granted from the first days of age if he or she is formula fed or breastfed by an adequately supplemented mother

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  21. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @James Thompson

    Thanks for reading my comment. Based on anecdotal memories of people I have met, I have to say I think Rex Jung is probably right. Maybe 50 years (or maybe even much less – maybe 5 to 10 years) from now, it will be interesting to see whether the people with extreme and by-then easily measurable genetic luck vis a vis both intelligence and creativity will withdraw from the advantages offered them into an easy life, or will exploit those advantages (to become famous, or powerful, or just influential) at the price of exposing themselves to the hatred of the mob. My guess is that there will be a lot more team work then than there is now, and the teamwork will start at much younger ages, because the type of exhausting Mandarin academic winnowing that is now so popular almost everywhere will be well on its way to becoming a sad regretful collective memory. Also, I think that there is no chance, absent an unpredictable AI complete or near-complete takeover, that anytime in the next hundred years there will be any shortage of people whose intelligence and creativity, starting from an unremarkable level measured genetically, will have been spurred on to dizzying heights by extreme hardship, whether emotional, physical, or spiritual: and there will never be a secular time without spiritual hardship.

  22. Harold says:
    @Amir Sariaslan

    As a New Zealander, albeit not very familiar with Dunedin, my thoughts are that Dunedin doesn’t have deprived neighbourhoods with more lead exposure. Take a look at a satellite view of Dunedin.

    Maybe we need better research design, but for this matter, I would bet it wouldn’t change anything.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  23. Iodine or whatever “cause” lower IQ

    Only way to prove it is

    Sons consistently scoring lower in IQ tests than their fathers or new generations scoring lower than their fathers.

    But I think there is a social confounding here.

    If there is a social confounding so it’s likely that have a genetic confounding too.

    Also there is a inductive reasoning confounding (if I remember what it mean) with deductive reasoning…

    By now was found a correlation. Period.

    Seems more difficult to prove causality.

    We also can find

    Smarter and extra-verted people score higher in IQ tests cause they eat more fruits…

    Low quality diet reduce IQ..

  24. @Harold

    The fact that Dunedin does not have deprived neighbourhoods with more lead exposure is a strength of this study, since it avoids SES confounding

  25. @FKA Max

    Don’t know about iodine insufficiency, but these reports are interesting. However, evidence for breast feeding boosting IQ is weak, in my view.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/breast-feeding-intelligence-and

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @Wizard of Oz
  26. FKA Max says:
    @James Thompson

    Thank you, Mr. Thompson.

    As Angela Leung pointed out:

    Although the overall adult population in the United States remains iodine sufficient in recent national surveys, a subset of pregnant and lactating women may have inadequate dietary iodine intake

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/iq-does-not-exist-lead-poisoning-aside/#comment-1825370

    Until recently, about 25% of the iodine in the diet was from wheat, because iodine was used in the processing of flour. Now, however, a lot of flour in the U.S. is processed with a chemical cousin of iodine, bromide (potassium bromate), which helps makes flour doughier, rise higher, and gives the loaf a better appearance. But bromide is a double-edged sword: not only has it replaced iodine, it may block the activity of iodine. That’s also true for two more of iodine’s chemical cousins – chlorine and fluoride, both of which are common in drinking water. [...] And people are using less and less iodized table salt at home, because of the misguided medical advice (except in those with heart failure) to avoid salt.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/what-do-iq-researchers-really-think-about-the-flynn-effect/#comment-1706913

    Taking into account these recent changes in our Western dietary habits/ideology and food processing, one could even argue that breastfeeding compared to feeding one’s baby sufficiently-iodinized infant formula could actually increase the risk of depressing one’s baby’s IQ, if, as Angela Leung warned, an increasing number of breast-feeding Western mothers are (unknowingly) iodine deficient.

    It is, indeed, a complex matter.

    I personally suspect that this return of higher rates of iodine deficiency among Westerners could be another contributor to the “Woodley Effect,” besides the boom in myopia patients, etc.:

    The myopic people have greater reaction time than emmetropic people even though when their refractive error is corrected. This adds refractive error as a new member in the row of factors that affects the VRT.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-woodley-effect/#comment-1765219

    But it was obvious that genes could not be the whole story. One of the clearest signs came from a 1969 study of Inuit people on the northern tip of Alaska whose lifestyle was changing2. Of adults who had grown up in isolated communities, only 2 of 131 had myopic eyes. But more than half of their children and grandchildren had the condition. Genetic changes happen too slowly to explain this rapid change — or the soaring rates in myopia that have since been documented all over the world (see ‘The march of myopia’).

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-woodley-effect/#comment-1768329

    Maybe, after all, lead poisoning is only one of the lesser problems in the grand scheme of things?

    • Replies: @FKA Max
    , @anon
  27. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Some good news for people who have been exposed to lead in their life. Iodine seems to mitigate the effects of lead poisoning:

    Effects of lead on thyroid functions in lead-exposed workers Pekcici et al. (2010) http://link.springer.com/article/10.2478/s11536-009-0092-8

    These results suggest that high levels of lead in the blood may affect thyroid physiology. Clinicians should be aware of the potential hazardous effects of lead on the thyroid, especially in patients who have been occupationally exposed to lead.

    Lead poisoning secondary to hyperthyroidism: report of two cases. Klein et al. (1998) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9506864

    With long-term exposure to lead, lead accumulates in bone, where it is stored for years. These quiescent lead stores are mobilised when increased bone turnover occurs, and latent lead toxicity may then become symptomatic. Although Graves’ disease is a common cause of increased bone turnover, to date hyperthyroidism has been implicated in lead poisoning only twice. We describe herein two cases of hyperthyroidism, one caused by toxic multinodular thyroid enlargement, the second by Graves’ disease, leading to lead poisoning. Treatment of hyperthyroidism with radioactive iodine cured both hyperthyroidism and lead poisoning and no chelating agent therapy was necessary. Lead poisoning is an important environmental health problem, and physicians must be aware of the endocrine disorders such as hyperthyroidism and hyperparathyroidism that increase bone turnover, favouring lead mobilisation. Atypical symptoms should draw the physician’s attention to the possibility of lead poisoning, particularly in workers with occupational exposure to lead and in areas where lead poisoning is endemic.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  28. FKA Max says:
    @FKA Max

    Important qualification:

    Balance is important in all aspects of life, especially nutrition. While iodine deficiency plagues much of the world, consuming too much iodine can also be a problem.
    [...]
    While too much iodine can induce hyperthyroidism, iodine can, oddly enough, also be the solution.

    Iodine as the Solution to Hyperthyroidism

    Iodine can be used to slow thyroid hormone release. Potassium iodide, Lugol’s solution, or, my personal preference, nascent iodine, can be used to initiate this effect. Applied in this way, iodine can halt complications like those of a Thyroid Storm, where the thyroid overproduces and over releases thyroid hormones leading to serious and potentially fatal effects.

    In some cases, small amounts of Iodine-131 (a radioactive iodine) will be applied to slow thyroid hormone production. Studies of individuals exposed to iodine-131 radiation have shown consistent development of hypothyroidism, a condition of reduced thyroid hormone output. [3] In medical applications, only the smallest amount is used to achieve the necessary result.

    http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/iodine-and-hyperthyroidism/

    Graves Remission with Iodine Case Report by Jeffrey Dach MD

    http://jeffreydachmd.com/2014/04/graves-remission-iodine-case-report-jeffrey-dach-md/

  29. There must be a lot of lead in Africa, and I am not referring to the copper-jacketed variety.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  30. FKA Max says:
    @Peripatetic commenter

    How Lead Poisoning Is Devastating Countries Around the World

    Recent research published in the Mexican health journal Salud Publica, or Public Health, found that lead contamination in the country has reduced average IQ by five points across the country’s population.[...] “Think of an entire society that’s impaired, an entire village that’s having trouble learning how to read, how to process numbers,” says Caravanos. “Your Einsteins just won’t be there.”

    http://time.com/4227906/lead-poisoning-global-impact/

    Blood Lead Levels in Mexico and Pediatric Burden of Disease Implications Caravanos et al. (2014) http://pureearth.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Mexico-blood-lead.pdf

    Our results indicate that more than 15% of the population will experience a decrement of more than 5 IQ points from lead exposure.

  31. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Who doubts the existence of intelligence? …. Exactly. No one.

    What any rational observer of humanity is bound to reject is the notion that a unidimensional scale, IQ for example, provides a valid measure of ability in all intellectual domains. At best, such a test can provide a mean ranking in several domains.

    Moreover, the idea that a comprehensive assessment of individual genius is possible with a test based on a few numerical, verbal, and shape-matching puzzles reveals an amazing blindness to the range of human aptitude — a conclusion that is not refuted by the existence of factors, either genetic or environmental, that have a general effect on mental function.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  32. alan2102 says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    “It seems to me that anyone with IQ above 60 should understand that ‘intelligence’, by almost any definition, can not indeed be measured by a single number.”

    Ha. Yes. But the psychometricians are desperate to claim otherwise; emotionally and intellectually, they are totally invested in that idea; “all in”, so to say.

    • Replies: @The Z Blog
    , @AP
    , @Wizard of Oz
  33. alan2102 says:
    @FKA Max

    “Could breastfeeding actually increase the IQ of infants due to breast milk containing more iodine on average than infant formula”

    Absolute quantity of iodine itself is important. But still more important is organified iodine, specifically iodothyronines — T2, T3, T4. The heavy impact on brain development (and consequently IQ) depends on iodinated thyronines, not the iodide ion /per se/. Hypothyroidism, broadly defined, (i.e. insufficient organification of iodine), is the problem as much as absolute iodine supply. Though of course iodine in absolute terms must be sufficient as well. Breast milk is a good source of iodothyronines, IF the mother is organifying iodine adequately and IF the mother is adequately supplied with iodine.

  34. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    Mr. Kirkegaard stated, that there had not been any “environmental” ways to boost IQ found yet, only “environmental” causes which depressed IQ, e.g., he gave the example of lead poisoning; but as I understand it, iodine has been found and confirmed to be a quite significant “environmental” factor in boosting IQ, and it is also relatively easy and cost-effective to do so. Am I wrong?

    He may have meant that iodine doesn’t increase IQ above its natural (i.e. genetic) potential.

    Iodine deficiency dramatically lowers IQ and adding iodine i.e. removing the deficiency, lets it reach its natural limit but (if genetic IQ is true) it doesn’t increase IQ above its genetic limit – only gene frequency can do that.

    Hence all the current programs to reduce iodine deficiency in Africa and the earlier programs in the western countries starting from the 1920s to add iodine to table salt (or to cattle feed in the milk drinking anglo countries).

    http://www.sightandlife.org/fileadmin/data/Magazine/2013/27_3_2013/iodine_nutrition_in_africa.pdf

    The iodine thing, along with the increased consumption of fish in the developing world, is a possible candidate for the Flynn effect.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  35. dearieme says:

    The comment flood seems to have ebbed, so let me just compliment you on your headline, doc. Fine stuff.

  36. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @hyperbola

    In the case of Parkinsons, the ca. 40 genes involved in the human population can only “explain” about 50% of inheritable effects, with the caveats noted above for individual genes.

    For the sake of argument, if a lot of ailments were caused by too much or too little of some micro nutrient x then either

    - a diet with too much or too little x

    or

    - a gene that retained or expelled too much x

    would have the same result.

    #

    for example

    say NW Europe had a poor climate for neolithic crops leading to it becoming populated by dairy farmers and that led to lactose tolerance and milk drinking to get enough calories…

    however milk has very little iron so a gene that retained iron might be selected for in NW Europe as a “good” gene until a diet comes along providing sufficient iron and the good gene now retains too much iron and it becomes a bad gene.

    #

    extending that example – how many regions in neolithic Eurasia had a deficiency or surfeit in some micro nutrient or other where something similar may have occurred?

    I’d guess hundreds.

    tailored diet and tailored medicine may be two sides of the same coin

    #

    regarding IQ the many genes of small effect associated with intelligence may simply be the genes related to a healthy brain i.e. a healthy brain is intelligent

    (genes with large effect and a downside would be a special case)

  37. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    Could breastfeeding actually increase the IQ of infants due to breast milk containing more iodine on average than infant formula, if the mothers themselves are not suffering from iodine deficiency?

    Since first reading up on this stuff I’ve thought the obvious place to put brain boosting adaptations is breast milk.

    In which case the answer to your question might be it depends i.e. there may be genes for optimizing the iodine in breast milk and not all women may have them (or all of them).

    If correct this might explain conflicting studies.

    If correct then
    - if your family is smart then breast feed 100%
    - if your family is dumb then maybe get formula (probably Japanese).

  38. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @FKA Max

    But bromide is a double-edged sword: not only has it replaced iodine, it may block the activity of iodine. That’s also true for two more of iodine’s chemical cousins – chlorine and fluoride, both of which are common in drinking water.

    Yes, there’s dozens of examples of this happening e.g. the switch away from iodine as an antiseptic in the dairy industry.

    (Also some places (like Argentina) have a lot of naturally flouridated water.)

    (Pure guess) this may even be the connection to lead – lead iodide is a toxin so maybe the lead is reacting with iodine in the body both reducing the iodine available for brain growth and creating a toxin?

  39. The argument against IQ is primarily because it shows that blacks are genetically less intelligent than Whites. This goes against the “we’re all the same!” philosophy of irrational liberalism. We’re all the same….even if we need “diversity”. Positing a biological/genetic component of intelligence must be stopped at all costs, according to the left. Why? Because if it is true, then the left’s entire narrative of universal equality falls apart. And most researchers now admit there is a definite genetic component, even if it is not 100% of intelligence and even if we don’t know all the genes associated with such a nebulous concept.

    IQ measures something. This is obvious because of all the correlations between certain behaviors and IQ. Does it measure intelligence? You have to define intelligence first. Do we even have a universal definition of what intelligence is? Apparently not.

  40. The Z Blog says: • Website
    @alan2102

    This is a pretty good example of what psychology calls projection. This form of “argument” is common with the creationists and ID’ers.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  41. The Z Blog says: • Website

    Assuming professionals in the field read this stuff, I wonder why no one has gained access to the rather large database of IQ scores held by NIH going back decades. One institute in particular conducts longitudinal studies on the effects of specific treatment regimens. For example, children diagnosed with a specific form of cancer. They will get a base line, administer a range of tests (WISC, Ravens, etc) and then re-examine over the course of years, even after the patient is cancer free and no longer in treatment.

    There’s a lots of data to examine the impact of environmental factors.

  42. Agent76 says:

    March 11, 2014 Harvard: Fluoride Can Increase Autism and Attention Deficit Disorder Government and Top University Studies: Fluoride Lowers IQ and Causes Other Health Problems

    We reported last month that a Harvard study found that fluoride can lower children’s IQ by 7 points, and that numerous government reports have shown that fluoride can injure the brain and neurological system. Now, one of the world’s most prestigious medical journals – Lancet – has published a Harvard study showing that fluoride is one of the chemicals which can increase autism and attention deficit disorder.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/harvard-fluoride-can-increase-autism-and-attention-deficit-disorder/5372893

  43. OK, enough of this. No, one number can’t explain the “whole person”. Nobody ever said it could. But it can make a pretty good guess. lead poisoning? Give me a break. As one writer says, they must be a lot of it in Africa.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  44. @Anonymous White Male

    Psychometricians tell us there is only one intelligence ’cause factor g. Ok, i believe they are saying, even they still don’t perceived, that intelligence is a system, just like human [or being] organism with many sub-systems there.

    No there such thing emotional intelligence separated from general intelligence. I agree. The problem is that ”they” are just repeating the same old fashioned arguments without give us new [and redundant] insights to complete this puzzle.

    There is such thing ”emotional/instinctive/logic to rational mode” inside general intelligence-system. Some people have more developed this area, like, emotional/limbic area, than others. Seems obvious to conclude.

    Yes, there is such thing ”emotional intelligence”, as well instinctive intelligence, as well logic TO rational intelligence, but all this are in the domain of general intelligence, so they can be also treated as ”sub-intelligence”, just like solar system/general intelligence to their planets/ psycho-cognitive diversity or [re]combinations of the ”standard-model” of general intelligence.

    All individual ”general intelligence’s” are equal, but some them are more equal than others.

    Because many psychometricians lean on the right so they tend to dispise the gradient of the spectrum by the poles.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  45. And dentists still put lead fillings in the people’s teeth merily. How come?

  46. Three comments regarding lead poisoning. First off, one should expect a correlation between parental exposure and child exposure, which reduces the apparent effect of iq loss by correcting for (subtracting) parental IQ.

    One mechanism by which parental and child exposure is correlated is the neighbourhood exposure to lead fallout from gasoline (it was not equal opportunity—some neighbourhoods had far more lead than others prior to phaseout of leaded, which happened quite recently outside North America). In the US, Black neighbourhoods often had far higher blood lead levels.

    A second mechanism of parent child correlation of poisoning is living in the same neighbourhood (or similar, in terms of infrastructure e.g. lead water pipes, paint), which is a particular problem in the US, disproportionately affecting blacks. Find e.g. blood lead level distribution (e.g. histogram) data from NHANES II (leaded gasoline era) and III (post gasoline, mainly pipes and paint).

    Finally, there is an issue with the use of blood lead level as an epidemiological proxy variable. I spelled this issue out in my first comment on unz, here.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  47. @Santoculto

    Doesn’t the causal explanation and correlation for g fall off at the higher end of the IQ scale?

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  48. alan2102 says:
    @Anonymous White Male

    “Positing a biological/genetic component of intelligence must be stopped at all costs, according to the left. Why? Because if it is true, then the left’s entire narrative of universal equality falls apart.”

    No, what must be stopped is the ugly racial supremacism and classism that associates with — and always has associated with, sometimes in most egregious forms (e.g. Nazi eugenics) — genetic determinism. Arthur de Gobineau, H S Chamberlain, Madison Grant, Lothrop Stoddard, the Nazi racial “scientists”, and a whole slew of others, too many to name; it is a long, loathsome and at times overtly criminal history. Ideas associated with genetic determinism, and energized by genetic determinism, have been responsible for hundreds of millions killed, maimed, tortured, enslaved, immiserated, etc.

    THAT is what the left objects to, and what every decent human being objects to. Thank God the left has so objected, and been largely successful. Thanks to the left and political correctness, we now live in a much more decent world, in some respects, than we did 50 years ago or 100 years ago. For example, you cannot now lynch blacks, and you can’t let loose your inner bigot and yell “nigger!” at a black person anymore, whereas 60 years ago you could. That is progress, for which we owe the left. Much more progress is needed, and we are still living in a racist society, but at least we’ve come that far. Thank God.

    The right was of course useless, never lifting a finger to police itself, much less participate in the march of human progress. And why is that? Because ugly bigotry and viciousness reflects what the right IS, constitutionally. The right is retarded, reptilian. Their consciousness is monopolized by regressive, philogenetically archaic impulses — dominance hierarchies, primitive territorialism, and of course racism (just one facet of their retarded natures). Or to put it bluntly: they’re assholes, just barely fit for human civilization, and that is being charitable. You can take right-wingers out of the jungle, but you can’t take the jungle out of right-wingers.

    I have no trouble with the idea that intelligence (as defined by psychometricians) exists and has perhaps some modest genetic component. That idea, itself, is no big deal. What IS a big deal is the associations, and the way in which reactionaries and closet fascists wish to use that idea to justify and advance gross social injustice, wild disparities of wealth and income (utterly unrelated to merit), wild disparities in access to health care, a wildly racist criminal and penal “justice” system, and general viciousness and cruelty. And make no mistake: that IS what this IQ thing is really about. Armies of racist troglodytes, neo-nazis, and miscellaneous right-wing assholes LOVE the idea that blacks can be proven inferior to whites by way of IQ tests. That idea does wonders for their reactionary, anti-human agenda. They are anxious to roll-back the last century of human progress, and the racial IQ story is a golden gift to them. Again, THAT is what the left objects to — and for god damn good reason.

    As for the “left’s narrative of universal equality”, do you mean the strange, unjustifiable idea that society should seek fairness and opportunity for all? Almighty God, Forbid It!

  49. @Johan Meyer

    I don’t understand your question.

    Please, do it again in the way i can understand it.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  50. @alan2102

    That idea, itself, is no big deal. What IS a big deal is the associations, and the way in which reactionaries and closet fascists wish to use that idea to justify and advance gross social injustice, wild disparities of wealth and income (utterly unrelated to merit), wild disparities in access to health care, a wildly racist criminal and penal “justice” system, and general viciousness and cruelty

    You are

    generalizing

    and

    being BIASED against a diversity of subtypes of right’s wingers and NON-lunatics on the left– people.

    Regular right wing people believe in the hard working and meritocracy, you have/and deserve what you plant. If you are careless farmer so it’s YOUR FAULT, primarily.

    This is their ideal, i’m not saying it’s factual or totally correct but it’s make some sense.

    And yes, there are a lot of duller right winger who believe that a bilionaire just deserve be bilionaire in contrast of masses of very poor people. They believe accumulates enormous amount of money [subsequently live in the luxurious lifestyle and don't give a schultz for social issues] is a kind of morally accepted talent.

    As for the “left’s narrative of universal equality”, do you mean the strange, unjustifiable idea that society should seek fairness and opportunity for all? Almighty God, Forbid It!

    So so-meone explain me the existence of super-rich leftist celebrities**

    Opportunity for all mean ”for all who are not regular whites*”

    En masse immigration to the european countries blaming current living white people for all sins is fair* or just revenge*

    Opportunity for all, less for white race remain existent…

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  51. @Johan Meyer

    One mechanism by which parental and child exposure is correlated is the neighbourhood exposure to lead fallout from gasoline (it was not equal opportunity—some neighbourhoods had far more lead than others prior to phaseout of leaded, which happened quite recently outside North America). In the US, Black neighbourhoods often had far higher blood lead levels.

    Lead poisoning in rural deep south too*

    Blacks on rural areas of deep south tend to have the lowest IQ among american blacks. Interestingly they score higher in urban areas of northeast.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  52. THAT is what the left objects to, and what every decent human being objects to. Thank God the left has so objected, and been largely successful. Thanks to the left and political correctness, we now live in a much more decent world, in some respects, than we did 50 years ago or 100 years ago. For example, you cannot now lynch blacks, and you can’t let loose your inner bigot and yell “nigger!” at a black person anymore, whereas 60 years ago you could. That is progress, for which we owe the left. Much more progress is needed, and we are still living in a racist society, but at least we’ve come that far. Thank God.

    I agree that in the recent past western societies was not good for many people namely in the ”minorities’ but also for, maybe, majority of people who wasn’t white/OR jewish, OR/rich and powerful. But the ideometer was to the far right to the far left, it’s reasonable**

    Right wing have A LOT OF good points. They are just like soldier sentinels, they, on avg, no have the same sofistication many left-leaning have, but they are ALMOST right about what they are good, detect dangers, specially foreign dangers, while [not all] on the left usually believe the dangerous ones are within us.

    Both sides have their good and bad points, do you can agree with me in this part*

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  53. @Santoculto

    between and not within us, ;)

    even, in the end, everyone have their inner monster and inner saint, =)

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  54. @JayMan

    Jayman, you are black. You belong to the race with the lowest IQ.

  55. @James Thompson

    James Thompson are you married? If so, is your wife Asian or black?

  56. There are 3 races: Caucasian, Asians, blacks. Caucasians (the West) have the highest IQs, Asians are second, blacks at the bottom. Any Caucasians who do not believe in IQ can move to Asia or Africa.

  57. @Santoculto

    Regular right wing people believe in the hard working and meritocracy, you have/and deserve what you plant. If you are careless farmer so it’s YOUR FAULT, primarily.

    This is their ideal, i’m not saying it’s factual or totally correct but it’s make some sense.

    I agree that the main purpose of the IQ stuff is to justify the existing social order, and the racist component is only a minor part of that. Only it’s not because ‘regular right wing people believe’ in something, but because it’s the purpose of the dominant ideology.

    What I don’t understand (perhaps my IQ isn’t high enough) is how this justification works. What is this ‘meritocracy’, exactly? The farmer deserves what he plants, sure, but the high-IQ swindler who bankrupts the farmer, what does he deserve? I mean, it seems quite obvious to me that in this society the clever (high-IQ) people generally use their wits to relieve the hard-working ones of the products of their labor… No?

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @utu
    , @CanSpeccy
  58. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Most reasonable people whatever their ideological positions believe that corrupt ones must be jailed at the best, regular right wingers included.

    Right wing mindset is strongly explicitly utilitarian. This explain partially why they are on avg less prone to enjoy arts. Many them also believe because entrepreneurs are those who create jobs so they are valuable than those who don’t do it. Of course we will have a diversity of this basal ideological guidelines.

    Funnily they are on avg very proletarian mind.

    No there such thing racist component at least among most of hbd types. Charles Murray is not racist firstly because he married a non-white non-Jewish woman and because he emphasize that east Asians in IQ hierarchies appear to be insufferably smarter than “whites”. Yes he’s more classicist even I don’t demonize him because unfortunately poor people are not poor just because the rich is disproportionately evil, selfish and/or greedy but also because they/the poor tend to be less CLEVER or high profile smart street and many them simply can’t control their sexual impulses and have kids before build a comfortable economic stability == the cycle of poverty. But there are a lot of good people among the poor. Unfortunately we have many bad apples promiscuously mixed/interacting with good apples among them. It’s not rare we have good control, conscious and honest parents with criminal sons. Poor tend to be more like that also because bad social conditions increase the fertility of sociopathic alphas over less territorial and aggressive men.

    Many right wingers unfortunately as well happen with many left wingers tend to be more partisans than citizens and tend to “rationalize” the wealthy and sins of “their” rich. What “liberals” usually do with their favorite powerful people with the same ideological positions for example Madame Hillary Clinton in this last American election.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    , @alan2102
  59. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @alan2102

    So even if you secretly believed
    - base IQ was primarily genetic (possibly downgraded by factors like lead and iodine)
    and (mostly) the result of
    - many genes of small effect
    which would lead to the possibility that
    - different populations could have different frequencies of those genes
    then you’d want to deny it anyway for political/moral reasons – which is okay.

    However assuming that secretly you do believe it’s genetic and there are differences in the average between various groups then by denying it you’d be effectively sentencing dumb people to be dumb forever with no solutions to the problems caused by their dumbness.

    If the HBD case is true then the only way to fix it is by changing the gene frequencies.

    This could be done without publicly accepting racial differences – just admitting that intelligence is partly genetic would change people’s mating behavior.

    Say mating decisions were brains vs brawn (where brawn means looks, health etc) I’d say -
    - women in the top 1/3 already weight it 60:40
    - women in the middle 1/3 maybe 50:50
    - and women in the bottom 1/3 40:60
    and by telling the truth the middle might shift to 55:45 and the bottom 1/3 to 50:50.

    This would have a huge impact on future generations, both on the ex-dumb and the people currently paying for the dumb.

    So if you secretly believed the HBD case was true then your position could still make sense politically – for example it could mean you thought you needed a large dumb underclass as a voting bank but there is no moral case for ensuring dumb people have dumb kids forever with no way out.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  60. Agent76 says:

    March 14, 2017 Strong link between fluoridated water and ADHD, according to scientific study

    Fluoridated water and the ingestion of fluoride have now been identified as factors in the development of ADHD, according to researchers. A report on this topic was published in Environmental Health, and the study is the first of its kind to closely examine the relationship between ADHD and exposure to fluoridated water.

    http://www.naturalhealth365.com/fluoridated-water-adhd-2169.html

    January 08, 2011 Scientists uncover truth about fluoride and other water contaminants

    In the same vein, deadly carcinogens have been found in cities across the United States. Hexavalent chromium, also known as chromium-6, is a deadly carcinogen that was found in the drinking water of 31 U.S. cities.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/030948_fluoride_water.html#ixzz4TUNHsLWg

  61. @alan2102

    “No, what must be stopped is the ugly racial supremacism and classism that associates with — and always has associated with, sometimes in most egregious forms (e.g. Nazi eugenics) — genetic determinism. Arthur de Gobineau, H S Chamberlain, Madison Grant, Lothrop Stoddard, the Nazi racial “scientists”, and a whole slew of others, too many to name; it is a long, loathsome and at times overtly criminal history. Ideas associated with genetic determinism, and energized by genetic determinism, have been responsible for hundreds of millions killed, maimed, tortured, enslaved, immiserated, etc.”

    Where to begin? Your present your laughable straw men as somehow being the sum total of all racial realism. The truth is unpleasant to the left. It does not fit your childish narrative of “universal equality” so anyone that ever posited something that is not politically correct today has to be 100% wrong. First of all, there is no such thing as universal equality. If you can’t admit that, you cannot think. Give us your definition of racial supremacism and classism. I would venture that it tends toward the “Any suggestion that there is ANY difference between the races is an evil lie that MUST be outlawed because someone’s feeling might get hurt”. Race realism recognizes that their are racial differences. You cannot admit that. You will do whatever you can to suppress any truth concerning race at any cost. In fact, you deny there are any such thing as races, even though you acknowledge them when negroes can not succeed on their own. You are not interested in the truth.

    Why don’t you show us examples of the hundreds of millions killed, maimed, tortured, enslaved, immiserated, etc.? Let’s pretend the Nazis were guilty as charged. Were the Communists, Soviet, Chinese, and Cambodian “genetic determinists”? How many American Indians were there? Were the few million black slaves enslaved because of “genetic determinism” or just sold into slavery by their own people? Frankly, you can’t come up with hundreds of millions unless you assume that any inequality in the history of the world is due to “genetic determinism”. If you are correct, the years since 1964 have been essentially two generations of blacks. And yet they are even more backward today than they were in 1964. Which would mean you are wrong. Turn the mirror on yourself.

  62. Sean says:

    A little bit probably makes you smarter, per hormesis

    But if a little bit of lead is good for you how explain why lead poisoning has been suggested to have been a cause of the fall of the Roman Empire. Simple, Romans used to improve the flavor of their wine with lead and they suffered terrible lead poisoning because the combination increases the toxicity of lead. See ‘That ethanol consumption may affect lead toxicity was first suggested in 1966 by Cramer, who reported a higher incidence of lead poisoning among occupationally exposed (i.e., battery factory) workers with higher alcohol consuption…’.

  63. utu says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    “The farmer deserves what he plants, sure, but the high-IQ swindler who bankrupts the farmer, what does he deserve? ”

    Swindle on account of his higher IQ deserves the fruits of his swindle. This is the amoral morality of IQers.

  64. @Santoculto

    Charles Murray is not racist firstly because he married a non-white non-Jewish woman and because he emphasize that east Asians in IQ hierarchies appear to be insufferably smarter than “whites”.

    Well, whatever he emphasizes and whoever he’s married to, he’s certainly a ‘racialist’, like the fella @58. Otherwise, why would he even care about the measurement broken down by the dimension of so-called ‘races’. And once you start comparing ‘races’, inevitably you’ll find the superior and inferior ones among them. What you’re probably saying is that he isn’t a vulgar racist…

    and many them simply can’t control their sexual impulses and have kids before build a comfortable economic stability

    That’s quite an assumption, to believe that young-age births are explained by the inability to control sexual impulses, rather than by socioeconomic conditions, the culture produced by them. Suppose we kidnapped Chelsea Clinton at her birth and placed her into a hillbilly family. Would she be able to control her impulses?

  65. @alan2102

    “THAT is what the left objects to, and what every decent human being objects to. Thank God the left has so objected, and been largely successful. Thanks to the left and political correctness, we now live in a much more decent world, in some respects, than we did 50 years ago or 100 years ago. For example, you cannot now lynch blacks, and you can’t let loose your inner bigot and yell “nigger!” at a black person anymore, whereas 60 years ago you could. That is progress, for which we owe the left. Much more progress is needed, and we are still living in a racist society, but at least we’ve come that far. Thank God.”

    So, the left is the representative of every decent human being, eh? How are you any different than Catholic churchmen that knew what the truth was and had no problem with burning people at the stake because it was God’s will? You’re not. You’re just another self-righteous prick that assumes the moral superiority of your religion and wishes it imposed on everyone else. Why are you right? Just because. The difference between the left and right is that the right is capable of observing the results of policy and seeing that the promise does not equal the reality. The left is not. The left will squeal that communism didn’t work because it was not done right and never have the mental capacity to examine whether it was a flawed system that could not work.

    Lynching is such a “noble” crusade for you dim bulbs. How many blacks were lynched? From 1882-1968, 4,743 lynchings occurred in the United States. Of these people that were lynched 3,446 were black. That means that over one-fourth of those lynched were Whites. Does the left even recognize this salient point? No, because only black suffering is important to your self-righteous narrative. No, people were lynched because they broke the law, not for walking while black. While this was justice outside of the legal system, so what? Who is the legal system supposed to be for? The lawyers? And try to be honest: lynching kept the black community in line. Who is keeping them in line in Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, anywhere where there are too many blacks? No one. They do not keep their own people in line. Apparently, the slave states were right about how to make blacks at least pretend to be White.

    Oh, and “nigger”. This is just a word. I’m sorry, but for blacks and their apologists, this somehow justifies theft, rape, and murder. Do you ever see a White person get upset about being called a honky. No, you don’t. We just laugh. Remember, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. It looks like blacks aren’t civilized enough to realize this. You let one thing slip. You said, “Thanks to the left and political correctness, we now live in a much more decent world, in some respects, than we did 50 years ago or 100 years ago”. In SOME respects. But, not in all. The truth is that the black race is a parasite that can only glom onto a host to live a first world life. So, the White race has not benefited from their presence. And Whites constantly move to get away from black dysfunction. But, you and your ilk want to prevent that from happening because freedom of association is not important to you and you are incapable of admitting that freedom of disassociation is just as important. You can’t allow this because it shows what blacks are not capable of. But, we already see that in Africa, don’t we? Remember South Africa and Rhodesia?

    • Replies: @alan2102
  66. @alan2102

    “As for the “left’s narrative of universal equality”, do you mean the strange, unjustifiable idea that society should seek fairness and opportunity for all? Almighty God, Forbid It!”

    Yes, fairness for all is unjustifiable. Why? You cannot achieve it. No society ever has or ever will. Life is not fair. Everyone except the left knows this. And you don’t really want opportunity for all. You want equal RESULTS for all. This is also impossible because, face it, people are not born equal. A few are actually physically and mentally disadvantaged. Some people are dreamers and have no grounding in reality. And some people are just lazy. Guess what? Some people are just evil, too.

    I find it amusing that when someone that calls themselves a leftist uses “God” as somehow justification for their self-righteous smugness. It is that left that has removed the concept of “God” from public discourse. But, they claim it when ever it suits their narrative. Like gay marriage. “Oh, God loves everyone!” Unfortunately, God doesn’t love everyone. Read the Bible if you disagree. Anyone, any group of people that deny a concept exists when it doesn’t support their position and then inserts it if it can has a specific name. They are called hypocrites. You are black, aren’t you?

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @alan2102
  67. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous White Male

    The argument against IQ is primarily because it shows that blacks are genetically less intelligent than Whites. This goes against the “we’re all the same!” philosophy of irrational liberalism.

    Nonsense. If IQ tests results show racial differences in IQ, so be it. What IQ test do not measure is human potential in all domains and indeed can totally fail in identifying genius, as the Terman study proved and as the cases of Nobel Prize winners such as J.D. Watson and Richard Feynman prove.

    However, what IQ tests can do is give people who are good at certain types of petty puzzle a sense of entitlement because of their superior intelligence — a sense of entitlement liable to minimize the inclination to hard work, while giving others to understand that because of their supposed lack of potential they might as well not bother trying to succeed at anything other than being a surf.

    In addition, IQ testing seems to give those supposedly knowledgeable on the subject an insufferable sense of power and superiority.

  68. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Suppose we kidnapped Chelsea Clinton at her birth and placed her into a hillbilly family. Would she be able to control her impulses?

    This supositions are generally problematic. I don’t know how she would act even because we are talking about non-controlled scenarios. Many things would can happen and i don’t know what is her personality to infer with some safety margin how she likely would act in this hypothetical and extraordinary situation.

    But i can tell you that she is likely to act with more prudence than a avg and classical/stereotypical hillbilly person.

    In the past seems most people had kids before and build their home after but even among them there are those who were better to manage it.

    Well, among people with lower general and cognitive intelligence, smarter people also can born. It’s more rare than among families with higher ”intelligence”, but still happen occasionally.

    Well, whatever he emphasizes and whoever he’s married to, he’s certainly a ‘racialist’, like the fella @58. Otherwise, why would he even care about the measurement broken down by the dimension of so-called ‘races’. And once you start comparing ‘races’, inevitably you’ll find the superior and inferior ones among them. What you’re probably saying is that he isn’t a vulgar racist…

    whatever criteria you may can use, you will finish to create a ranking and with yourself inside it.

    So-called races are so evident and important that liberals are those who are more concerned and repetitive about it. If races really don’t exist or better, if liberals really believe in their own beliefs they at least no more would mention so-called races.

    If you don’t believe in so-called human races so you’re positive about globalism* For China too*

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  69. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    The farmer deserves what he plants, sure

    Oh no. Not in an IQ-ocracy.

    Working hard and expecting to reap what one sows, whether it be a sack of rice or a Nobel Prize is so Confucian. Indeed it is just taking advantage of one’s more intelligent neighbor who is undoubtedly thinking very fine thoughts and deserves the best of whatever life has to offer, whether it be an education at Harvard or a place on the company board.

  70. @CanSpeccy

    I don’t think IQ tests ”do it”, but that stupid people in the higher IQ-layers who don’t understand intelligence and no have curiosity no intellectual discipline to learn better about it.

    • Agree: CanSpeccy
  71. @Mao Cheng Ji

    “and many them simply can’t control their sexual impulses and have kids before build a comfortable economic stability”

    ‘That’s quite an assumption, to believe that young-age births are explained by the inability to control sexual impulses, rather than by socioeconomic conditions, the culture produced by them.

    By using the word “many” he is not making quite an assumption that ‘young-age births’ are explained by the inability…yada yada. You are trying to imply he said that ALL young-age births are the result of parents being unable to control their sexual impulses. What is it with you people? Do you just have poor reading comprehension skills or do you just like to split hairs?

    ‘Suppose we kidnapped Chelsea Clinton at her birth and placed her into a hillbilly family. Would she be able to control her impulses?’

    A hillbilly family would actually have been a step up for Chelsea Clinton. And since we have no way of knowing, what is your motivation for using an unknown as an example?

  72. @Mao Cheng Ji

    For example, your beliefs in ”races don’t exist” IS itself a manifestation of self-superiority belief even because you think people who disagree with you about it are less smarter at least in this aspect, isn’t*

    Accuse the other [specially if he is your adversary] to create a qualitative ranking as if you never do this in your life seems imprudent.

    A qualitative ranking of what you believe it’s the correct answer or thinking lines is also a ranking of superiority.

  73. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    I really meant “serf,” not “surf,” although if you have a low IQ, I guess joining Kary Mullis down the beach might be as good a way to pass the time as any. Mullis, incidentally, is a Nobel Prize winner generally considered to be insane, although I suppose being insane is not quite the same as having a low IQ.

  74. Mokiki says:

    See An Element of Doubt
    Disinterested research casts doubt on claims that lead poisoning from paint is widespread among American children. Ironically, lead-paint removal can be a cause of poisoning

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1995/12/an-element-of-doubt/376495/

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Johan Meyer
  75. @Anonymous White Male

    God doesn’t love everyone. Read the Bible if you disagree

    We are reaching a new level in this parallelized debate, ;)

    But you’re right, ”leftists” just removed the contradictions in the bible to foment their system of beliefs, ;)

  76. AP says:
    @alan2102

    “It seems to me that anyone with IQ above 60 should understand that ‘intelligence’, by almost any definition, can not indeed be measured by a single number.”

    Ha. Yes. But the psychometricians are desperate to claim otherwise;

    No they aren’t, and they don’t.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  77. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Mokiki

    Lead poisoning from the gas additive tetraethyl lead, which was banned in the US in 1984, has been a major cause of lead poisoning apparently. The effects may be wearing off a bit by now although soil contamination from auto emissions is still a cause elevated blood lead concentrations in some places.

    In New Y ork City, ingestion of lead by those residing near major highways is believed to be responsible for an elevated incidence of a form of the disease known as porphyria, which may have been the cause of King George’s insanity.

  78. @CanSpeccy

    Who believes in that “comprehensive assessment”?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  79. @The Z Blog

    What is your “this”? What you are replying to or what he was replying to/criticising?

    • LOL: The Z Blog
  80. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Consider what you are replying to. JT has merely affirmed that sometimes (quite often in fact) the results of tests of intelligence are “summarised” in a single figure. The appropriate question is as to whether the summary figure has any legitimate utility or evidentiary value.

    But maybe you are teasing the solemn. You have after all used the single figure of 60 to pretend to make your point. You seem to be adopting my (soft) thresholds point.

  81. @alan2102

    “Anyone with an IQ above [not 60 but let's say an alert and educated 110] should understand that” Mao Cheng Ji may be engaged in teasing irony. See #82

  82. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Who believes in that “comprehensive assessment”?

    IQists, surely?

    Certainly they rarely state any limitation on the implication of IQ. It’s supposed, according to them, to measure a young person’s prospects of getting a PhD, a patent, a tenured professorship, success in business, and by implication so much more, or so James Thompson would have us believe.

    Thing is, though, while reference is often made to the success of those who were found in youth to have high IQ’s, less, indeed much less if anything at all, is said about those who though having been found to have not such high IQs in youth nevertheless went on to success as Nobel Prize winners, Professors, business executives, etc.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @utu
  83. pyrrhus says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    But the fact that IQ doesn’t measure every ability doesn’t mean that the ‘single number’ doesn’t have a lot of significance.

  84. @anon

    Thanks to adding to my battery of explanations for the Flynn effect. Mine include test sophistication, radio programs which required focus and attention (not least the comedies), antibiotics, anti-inflammatories etc

    • Replies: @anon
  85. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AP

    No they aren’t, and they don’t.

    Well in that case, the better to be understood, they might make a point of stating more often and more clearly exactly what it is that IQ measures, i.e., aptitude on a few numerical, verbal and pattern-matching tests, which may or may not have much to do with relative capacity in many functions of either the intellect or the central nervous system, or in life-time achievement.

    • Replies: @AP
    , @alan2102
    , @anon
  86. @CanSpeccy

    Do you believe if IQ tests start to measure/predict creative and rational ”skills” it will become more comprehensive*

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  87. alan2102 says:
    @Santoculto

    Santoculto:

    You are generalizing

    Yes, of course I am. That’s what all of us do, almost all of the time. We do it because it is a very useful and indispensable technique.

    Regular right wing people believe in the hard working and meritocracy

    Not really. They SAY they do. But they are almost invariably in the “born on third and think they hit a triple” group. There might be rare exceptions, but so what? What I say is generally true, and that’s good enough. In discussions with right-wingers I note that there is a complete absence of any awareness of the empirical work on social mobility and “meritocracy” — which clearly shows that the idea of meritocracy is largely rubbish. It is simply one of their cherished myths — one of the comfortable and comforting lies that they tell themselves. They must tell themselves such lies because the truth would be far too painful for them to face.

    explain me the existence of super-rich leftist celebrities**

    There are no super-rich leftists. That is a contradiction in terms. Some rich celebrities support one or other pet “progressive” cause, but that does not make them leftists. Money perverts people and turns them into right-wing assholes, in nearly 100% of cases. There might be rare exceptions, but so what? What I say is generally true, and that is good enough. Leonardo DeCaprio is “concerned” about climate change, while he flies his private jet around the world. Fuck him. He is a right-wing asshole, barely different from the Koch brothers. You cannot atone for your right-wing assholery by a few pious statements of “concern”, or even by writing big checks to the relevant NGOs. Sorry.

    En masse immigration to the european countries blaming current living white people for all sins is fair* or just revenge*

    What is important is the CAUSE if massive immigration. It was caused by right-wing assholes, pursuing policies that destroyed economies and cultures such that immigration to the West/North is the only route to a better life. You’ll note I said it was “caused by right-wing assholes”, NOT that it was caused by “current living white people”. It so happens that most of said right-wing assholes ARE white, but that is not important. As far as the currently living generation is concerned, that’s largely incidental. They could just as easily be black, or any other color. Or they could be women. Margaret Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Condi Rice, and many others — all right-wing assholes. Your IDENTITY as a black, a latino, a woman, etc., does not atone for your right-wing assholery, either.

    I agree that in the recent past western societies was not good for many people namely in the ”minorities’ but also for, maybe, majority of people who wasn’t white/OR jewish, OR/rich and powerful.

    Indeed. Life sucked for most white people, too. Poor and working-class whites had it bad. White slavery was a real and terrible thing. Do not mistake what I am saying as a buy-in to the racial reductionistic narrative that locates the blame for everything on whites. That’s not the case, and is not at all what I believe. White supremacy has been responsible for a ton of atrocities and outrages, but it is not responsible for everything, not even close.

    Right wing have A LOT OF good points. They are just like soldier sentinels…. [they] detect dangers, specially foreign dangers

    True. If you’re in a survival situation, you had best have some of those reptilian qualities. But then, 99.9% of us live, 99.9% of the time, in situations where those qualities are at best useless, and at worst destructive.

    Most reasonable people whatever their ideological positions believe that corrupt ones must be jailed

    The issue is not whether or not you believe that “corrupt ones must be jailed”, because of course EVERYONE believes that. The issue is WHAT YOU CAN SEE; specifically, what corruption and criminality you are capable of seeing. Most people, for example, do not see that the prison-industrial complex is a gigantic immoral and criminal enterprise that should be dismantled immediately. Most people do not see this because they are in the grip of a right-wing mass media and right-wing education, and are deluged with right-wing propaganda day in and day out, with almost never any serious critique.

    Charles Murray is not racist firstly because he married a non-white non-Jewish woman

    Irrelevant. Instances of retail interpersonal non-bigotry are quite cheap and count for little. The real action is in the ideas that you propagate, the institutions you support, the ways you obtain and spend money. You cannot atone for your right-wing assholery by marrying a non-white, especially an asian, or by having a few non-white friends, especially asians. I know that right-wing assholes would LOVE to believe otherwise, and I’m sorry to disappoint them.

  88. @CanSpeccy

    “Nonsense. If IQ tests results show racial differences in IQ, so be it. What IQ test do not measure is human potential in all domains and indeed can totally fail in identifying genius, as the Terman study proved and as the cases of Nobel Prize winners such as J.D. Watson and Richard Feynman prove.”

    Well, IQ test results do show racial differences in IQ. So, so be it. And NO ONE here or ANYWHERE said anything about IQ tests measuring human potential in all domains. Why do you people need to create straw men? If you wish to talk about human potential, don’t get into a thread debating IQ test results. And while IQ tests may not have measured “genius” correctly in the TWO whole examples you mention, what does this have to do with statistics? Why do you feel the need to point to the specific when a generalization is being made and then point to a generalization when a specific point is made? Don’t do it again!

    “However, what IQ tests can do is give people who are good at certain types of petty puzzle a sense of entitlement because of their superior intelligence — a sense of entitlement liable to minimize the inclination to hard work, while giving others to understand that because of their supposed lack of potential they might as well not bother trying to succeed at anything other than being a surf.”

    So, according to you, doing well on IQ tests makes a person tend to coast, while doing poorly on an IQ test does the same thing. I’m getting the feeling that you have not scored very well on IQ tests. I mean, with your comment about IQ tests only resulting in a high score among those who are good at “certain types of PETTY puzzles”. Sounds like sour grapes. We’ll never know, will we?

    “In addition, IQ testing seems to give those supposedly knowledgeable on the subject an insufferable sense of power and superiority.”

    Well, does it give people, like yourself, that are supposedly unknowledgeable on the subject a sad inferiority complex? Are you black, by any chance?

    • Replies: @alan2102
  89. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    ” while reference is often made to the success of those who were found in youth to have high IQ’s, less, indeed much less if anything at all, is said about those who though having been found to have not such high IQs in youth nevertheless went on to success ”

    And not much is made of those who have high IQ but their only life success is a membership in MENSA.

  90. AP says:
    @CanSpeccy

    What you say now isn’t the same as what I responded to.

  91. alan2102 says:
    @CanSpeccy

    CanSpeccy:

    Certainly they [the IQ-ists] rarely state any limitation on the implication of IQ. It’s supposed, according to them, to measure a young person’s prospects of getting a PhD, a patent, a tenured professorship, success in business, and by implication so much more, or so James Thompson would have us believe.

    That’s right. Stating the limitations would — apart from being honest — diminish their status and the perceived import of their work. They imagine themselves to be working on THE psychological matter that largely determines life outcomes, and it is VERY important to them that others believe the same. The mythos must be supported, whether or not it corresponds to reality. Typical “professionals”. It is like that in most fields.

    Thing is, though, while reference is often made to the success of those who were found in youth to have high IQ’s, less, indeed much less if anything at all, is said about those who though having been found to have not such high IQs in youth nevertheless went on to success as Nobel Prize winners, Professors, business executives, etc.

    Is that so? I did not know. Which is a reflection of how well the IQ-obsessed (the IQ-ists, the psychometricians) have done their brainwashing work. I’m not dumb, and I’ve read a fair amount of the IQ-related stuff, and I was not aware of what you just said. Whereas, if the field were honest and forthright, it would impossible for me (or anyone) to get far without encountering that fact. Ah, well. Typical “professionals”. It is like that in most fields. Corruption and lying is the norm.

    they [the IQ-ists] might make a point of stating more often and more clearly exactly what it is that IQ measures, i.e., aptitude on a few numerical, verbal and pattern-matching tests, which may or may not have much to do with relative capacity in many functions of either the intellect or the central nervous system, or in life-time achievement.

    Yes, indeed they might! Except that telling the truth in that manner would have the effect of undermining their status, and with that, possibly, their influence, and even their salaries. So, instead of plain honest truth-telling, they inflate. It is NOT just “aptitude on a few pattern-matching tests”, it is GENERAL intelligence, they say, with the clear implications of “universal” and “applicable and crucial in all situations” and even “that on which SUCCESS IN LIFE depends”!

    I don’t think I’ve ever heard an idea more arrogant and presumptuous and self-important (on the part of those advancing it) than “GENERAL intelligence”. And, to top it off, the reality of what they are actually talking about is that it is SPECIFIC intelligence — quite specific to certain types of problems. There’s nothing wrong with it, of course, and other things equal it is surely an advantage to have more rather than less of that specific ability. But jeezuz. “General” intelligence, my ass!

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  92. alan2102 says:
    @Anonymous White Male

    Anonymous White Male:

    And NO ONE here or ANYWHERE said anything about IQ tests measuring human potential in all domains.

    That’s what the phrase “general intelligence” does: it implies human potential in all domains. Does not quite state it, so there is plausible deniability (just barely), but strongly implies it.

    Reflect for a while on that phrase: GENERAL intelligence. What does it mean to you? What do you think it was intended to mean? What do you think its creators wished it to evoke within you?

  93. @CanSpeccy

    Do most children know their snd their classmates IQ scores? No. But they sll know who is quickest to put his hand up and get the right answer, who knows the meaning of the difficult words and finishes the msth test first with no or few mistakes. So why doesn’t the idle IQ 145 kid in 1000 inspire the 10 IQ 135 contemporaries to work hard when they know that ovcasionally ny hard work they can beat him? Of course neither the good nor the bad depends upon any of thrm knowing their IQ scores. But surely the IQ score comes into its own as one important prompt to schools to make sure their 3, 4, 5, 6 sigma kids are not bored to distraction and delinquency.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  94. alan2102 says:
    @Anonymous White Male

    Anonymous White Male:

    “As for the “left’s narrative of universal equality”, do you mean the strange, unjustifiable idea that society should seek fairness and opportunity for all? Almighty God, Forbid It!”

    Yes, fairness for all is unjustifiable. Why? You cannot achieve it.

    I said nothing about achieving it. I said society “should SEEK fairness”. I write precisely what I mean. All you have to do is read.

    True that abstract values like fairness can never be achieved. But that’s fine. Abstractions are abstractions; they serve their purpose of inspiring, motivating, energizing. That’s good enough. It is enough to SEEK. We SEEK beauty, and justice, and other abstract things. We are transformed for the better in the seeking, coming closer to our ideal, but never achieving it. That is OK. It is enough to SEEK.

    If decent human beings have any say, society will SEEK fairness, and in the process, will improve itself as it moves toward greater fairness.

    Your protestations — “life is not fair!”, “no society ever has or ever will” — are technically correct, but miss the point and are therefore rubbish.

    you don’t really want opportunity for all. You want equal RESULTS for all.

    No I don’t. I love diversity of outcome. Equal (or as close as we can reasonably get to equal) opportunity, and wild diversity of outcome, including great diversity of income and wealth. Like, say, some people FIVE TIMES as rich as others. Maybe even TEN TIMES. WILD, WILD DIVERSITY. That’s my thing.

    You’re just lashing out ignorantly and mouthing stale right-wing talking points because… because… well, I don’t know! Because it feels good? Because it makes your dick hard? I really don’t know.

    • Replies: @Anonymous White Male
  95. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Santoculto

    Do you believe if IQ tests start to measure/predict creative and rational ”skills” it will become more comprehensive

    There are two limitations with IQ tests. First, they measure not innate ability, but innate ability modified by experience, experience including education which may be lacking altogether, modest, intense or extreme (Mozart for example, whose father abandoned his own career to educate his children). You cannot do number tests without having been taught to be numerate, you cannot do verbal tests without having been taught to be literate, and standards of education vary immensely even at the elementary level. So what your test measures will never be pure innate ability.

    Second, IQ tests are based on implicit assumptions about the nature of human intelligence, or at least the intelligence that the test is supposed to measure. Mostly, intelligence tests have been devised either to see whether potential army recruits can understand and rationally act upon instructions such as “this way up” or “keep away from an open flame”, etc., or whether prospective school entrants will be able to handle the curriculum.

    In some degree, IQ tests undoubtedly serve such purposes, although perhaps no better than other kinds of tests, e.g., relevant academic tests for school entrants. But certainly they do not measure innate ability unmodified by experience. Further, they measure no more than a narrow range of what constitutes intelligence if, by intelligence, we mean the adaptive function of the central nervous system, a function that is manifest in a vast range of capabilities.

    Such misrepresentation of what an IQ test measures results in absurdities such as in the case of a musical genius such as Derek Paravicini, who can identify by ear each of ten notes struck on the piano keyboard simultaneously, and like Mozart can memorize the Papal mass at a single hearing, but who yet has an IQ of less than 35.

    While most would probably consider intelligence as something displayed only in the intellectual sphere, to a biologist the distinction between intellectual functions of the brain and all its other functions seems entirely artificial. The brain is an organ that aids survival and reproduction. Intellectual functions may serve those ends, but so do many other functions of the brain. Kinesthetic aptitude, for example, serves at least as importantly in assuring survival and reproduction as any intellectual capacity. And, boy, doesn’t that girl Simone Biles give you goose bumps? — her gymnastic performance is sheer genius.

    Or what about Bill Clinton and his claimed 2000 conquests! The power and versatility of the human brain is amazing and it cannot be captured in any comprehensive way by some simple paper and pencil test however ingenious.

  96. alan2102 says:
    @Anonymous White Male

    So, the left is the representative of every decent human being, eh?

    No. But there is a rough correlation.

    How are you any different than Catholic churchmen that knew what the truth was and had no problem with burning people at the stake

    That’s an easy one. I don’t advocate burning people at the stake. That’s how I am different. I also don’t advocate a LONG list of other things which amount to the equivalent — in terms of collective injustice, cruelty, and so on — of burning people at the stake. I suspect that I am different from you in that regard.

    You’re just another self-righteous prick that assumes the moral superiority of your religion

    You’re right. I assume the moral superiority of decency, fairness, justice, and the like. I am a total prick about those things. I also assume the moral superiority of kindness to children and animals, and I am a total prick about those things, too. Insufferably self-righteous.

    If only the world could be rid of busybody do-gooder leftists like me, so that we could bring back chattel slavery, prejudicial scapegoating, cruelty to animals, child labor, public torture, and ALL the wonderful stuff from the good old days!

    The left will squeal that communism didn’t work because it was not done right

    Communism DID work to raise hundreds of millions out of serfdom and miserable poverty, and to extend life expectancies dramatically.

    only black suffering is important to your self-righteous narrative.

    As I made clear up thread, white suffering is very important to me. Race and racial supremacism, while important, are secondary matters. Class is primary.

    Oh, and “nigger”. This is just a word. I’m sorry, but for blacks and their apologists, this somehow justifies theft, rape, and murder.

    What in the hell are you talking about?

    The truth is that the black race is a parasite that can only glom onto a host to live a first world life.

    Good gracious mercy me. I did not know the Stormfront crowd had arrived. But I should not be surprised. They swarm in whenever the door is opened a crack. Show me a “race realist” or “hbd” site, and I will show you a mob of rabid Nazi hangers-on. It goes with the territory.

    [SNIP the rest of "Anonymous White Male"s semi-coherent, inconsistent, largely irrelevant, racist, low-IQ rant]

  97. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    But surely the IQ score comes into its own as one important prompt to schools to make sure their 3, 4, 5, 6 sigma kids are not bored to distraction and delinquency.

    The teaching business is incredibly conservative. The business of making children advance in lockstep with 30 others in their class for 12 years, guarantees that education is vastly less effective than it might be.

    Ideally, each child should be taught at their own pace and should advance through the grades as they achieve adequate mastery at each level, not because they have put in the time at a particular level. And with technology, teaching at the individual’s own pace is surely now feasible, but educationalists are too dumb, it seems, to bring about the radical changes needed.

    As for the interaction of children of different abilities, it must be remembered that children do not all advance at the same pace. The fact that girls mature earlier than boys seems like a good reason for single sex education. And within any class of boys or girls there will be some that mature years earlier than others. Slow developers will suffer in the early going but developing late they will develop longer. So again, we cannot have the most effective education without adjusting the pace to the individual. At the end of each stage, we should be able to say not who is best at math or spelling but that everyone has achieved full proficiency, even if some never get beyond grade six or eight after 12 years of schooling.

    As it is, not only does the present system make school seem dull to the brightest kids but it makes school seem humiliating to the slowest kids, which is why as I recall, much of school was a dead loss, except for anything in a lab, or stuff with numbers. But oh God, French … Latin… English grammar…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  98. @Santoculto

    With regards to blacks in the rural south, there were depression era programs to supply lead paint to rural people, e.g. blacks in Alabama. In fairness, lead paint was a status object at the time, so a comparison with Obama phones is warrantes. See “Brush with Death: A Social History of Lead Poisoning” by Christian Warren, p9.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  99. alan2102 says:
    @Chris Bridges

    “lead poisoning? Give me a break. As one writer says, they must be a lot of it in Africa.”

    Yes, there’s a lot of lead poisoning in Africa. Also other poisoning, both inorganics and organics, many of which are known to impair brain development and IQ expression. Also a lot of high-fluoride drinking water (powerful goitrogen, iodine antagonist). Also a vast amount of iron deficiency, often responsible for lowering IQ by 10 points or more. Also a vast amount of iodine deficiency, often responsible for lowering IQ by 10 points or more. Also a great deal of selenium deficiency; selenium being essential to thyroid hormone utilization (i.e. “iodine utilization”, to put it briefly); selenium deficit is the probable cause of cretinism — profound IQ loss (like, scores of points). Also a vast amount of untreated parasitic infestation, which alone can cause dramatic IQ decrement. Also…. oh, geez, it is late and I don’t feel like continuing. Suffice to say it is a long list. A list that will never be discussed in detail by the “race realists” and “HBD” crowd. Also never to be discussed by the “race realist” crowd is the way in which the West/North has looted and fucked-over Africa for generations, RESULTING in much (though not all) of the foregoing; i.e. our wonderful high-IQ whites created a continental context of chaos, poverty, chronic malnutrition and poor health, causing low population IQs, and then they conclude, since the majority of the African fuckees happen to be black, that it is the genetic inferiority of the black race that causes the low IQs! It is really quite a spectacle. Lies mixed with willful ignorance mixed with criminality mixed with blindness to the criminality mixed with toxic sludge. Delicious!

  100. @CanSpeccy

    IQ is well correlated with ability in multiple fields, especially from median IQ down (many tasks are so-called g-loaded). Your counter-example is a case of savantism, an exception that accounts for a small portion of the population.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  101. @Mokiki

    I’ve not yet gotten to the comment to which you are replying, but I read the article to which you linked. It mentions that blood lead level is correlated to soil lead, which suggests continuous poisoning. I’ve argued elsewhere (comment 8) that sporadic poisoning leads to blood lead levels that are not correlated well to poisoning. NHANES III distribution of BLL suggests paint is sporadic poisoning. A better proxy for sporadic poisoning is bone, as lead in the bone has a half life of 30 years, and can be measured by K edge subtraction radiography.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  102. alan2102 says:
    @anon

    Anon:

    So even if you secretly believed….

    However assuming that secretly you do believe….

    So if you secretly believed the HBD case was true….

    I have no “secret beliefs”. I made it PERFECTLY clear what I believe, and you cannot possibly have missed it, unless you’re stupid, and I’m assuming you’re not stupid. So, stop this “secretly believe” speculative bullshit and say what you have to say, whatever that may be.

    As far as remediation of low IQ is concerned, there are a bunch of options that have nothing to do with modifying gene frequencies (though gene expression would for sure be modified). The specifics of practical measures is a whole long discussion and I would rather not enter into it right now, though I have studied it in depth in years past.

    IQ probably has a genetic component, as I said in the initial post. How much of a genetic component is the question. My hunch, and I could be wrong, is: not much. But regardless, there are so many practical options for raising population IQs the world over — there is so very much fundamental work to be done to correct the fundamental causes of poor brain development and consequent cognitive/IQ problems — that there is no reason to directly fool with genes at all for at least a couple of generations, if even then. We have much more basic and urgent work to do.

    Some things are more important than IQ, as pointed out above by Mao Cheng Ji. What good are high IQs if they are used mostly to facilitate cheating and theft? This is an important question, but it does not justify nihilism with respect to basic fetal, infant and child care and brain development. We can and should pursue, as an axiomatic good, normal brain development, accompanied by normal IQ and cognitive development, for all children everywhere. We should engage in the fundamental work — nutrition, health care, environmental cleanup, etc. — that assures same. We know what to do. The science is clear enough.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @utu
    , @Wizard of Oz
    , @anon
  103. FKA Max says:
    @alan2102

    Height Changes from 1914-2014

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/height-changes-from-1914-2014/

    In contrast, there was little change in adult height in some sub-Saharan African countries and in South Asia over the century of analysis.
    [...]
    Height is always interesting as a not-wholly-perfect analog for the Flynn Effect in IQ.
    [...]
    Africans were taller when the colonial era ended in the 1960s. They may have lost height because of collapsing health care systems, rising population density and less dietary diversity among urbanites, the authors said.

    ABOLISH ALL SCIENCE ‘COS ITS RACIST! -SJW University Student

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @alan2102
  104. @Santoculto

    See the second paragraph of the introduction of this article. At lower IQs, there is little evidence for multiple intelligences, and g has the most explanetory power. The paper argues that education reduces the mental load that an IQ test presents, although it should also be possible that a baseline minimum general intelligence is needed before specialization becomes significant enough to be measured.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Santoculto
  105. @alan2102

    If the IQ gap between Europe and sub Saharan Africa were primarily due to lead, Africa would likely be three to five times more violent, e.g. as measured by murder rates. I am aware of the very recent phase out of leaded petrol as well as the often very high lead content of the petrol e.g. 0.8 gram per litre in RSA iirc until 1981, as well as continued application of lead paint. Unless and until an environmental scientific account can explain the ethnic distribution of IQ in full, one will not have falsified the ethnic genetic hypothesis, and a premature effort at falsification is distraction from a larger and more important task of addressing the understood environmental problems, and developing further scientific understanding.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  106. @alan2102

    Also, as the author of the OP has an English surname, and as I have an ethnic duty to occasionally feign hatred toward the English (Anglo Boer war and all that), I’ll put some blame for the African IQ on soccer.

  107. utu says:
    @alan2102

    “The specifics of practical measures is a whole long discussion and I would rather not enter into it right now, though I have studied it in depth in years past.”

    I am sure you can suggest some reading material. Publications…

    “We know what to do. The science is clear enough.”

    Again, publications, please.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  108. utu says:
    @alan2102

    “What good are high IQs if they are used mostly to facilitate cheating and theft? “

    Are you alluding to Jews?

    • Replies: @alan2102
  109. utu says:
    @alan2102

    “a lot of lead poisoning in Africa. Also other poisoning, both inorganics and organics, many of which are known to impair brain development and IQ expression. Also a lot of high-fluoride drinking water (powerful goitrogen, iodine antagonist). Also a vast amount of iron deficiency, often responsible for lowering IQ by 10 points or more. Also a vast amount of iodine deficiency, often responsible for lowering IQ by 10 points or more. Also a great deal of selenium deficiency; selenium being essential to thyroid hormone utilization (i.e. “iodine utilization”, to put it briefly); selenium deficit is the probable cause of cretinism — profound IQ loss (like, scores of points). “

    Can yu provide any references for these claims?

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  110. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I went and got the article you cited: Education, Wechsler’s Full Scale IQ, and g and was shocked to find out that it was funded by the Spanish ‘‘Ministerio de Educacion y Cultura.” Who’s funding this ministry, Koch brothers?

    The authors got seduced by the concept of g and promulgate the rigmarole of 2nd order factors extracted from the 1st order factor, etc., etc.. All this is done on the shaky edifice constructed by very non-rigorous part time mathematician Spearman of ambiguous factor analysis that took 80 or so year of propping it up with many ad hoc criteria to assume some semblance of mathematical uniqueness. Total bunk. I wonder how this indoctrination of young scientist is being perpetrated? They are poor mathematicians, I guess, who rely of statistical packages to produce this nonsense. No self respecting mathematician would touch this junk.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  111. @James Thompson

    I was about to suggest to CanSpeccy that we ask you to say just what IQ tests are useful forand how useful they are with any necessary discriminations between different highly correlated measures of g. And I do…. But then a different question occurred to me also.

    Are there commonly used tests of (particularly) verbal abilities which are highly correlated with g and others which are not? If so what would the justification be for using the less g correlated? Has any research been done to show that some occupations require e.g. vast specialised or non-specialised vocabularies that csn be acquired by sheer hard work?

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  112. @alan2102

    Your suggesting that IQ’s genetic componentis “not much” suggests that you are not distinguishing between the question wrt ethnic groups and the question about individuals regardless of ethnicity. Why? Because no one with their eyes and ears open or the slightest acquaintance with the literature – particularly twin studies – has any doubt that smart patents tend to have smart kids and vice versa regardless of upbringing, though that helps in an often reciprocal way.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  113. @Santoculto

    So-called races are so evident and important that liberals are those who are more concerned and repetitive about it.

    Yes, liberals are very much into ‘races’; it’s one of their favorite identities.

    I disagree that ‘races’ are evident: there are different definitions, borderlines are very much blurred already, and likely to become more and more blurred in the future, until this particular classification will stop making sense completely.

    I also disagree that it is important (essential). A very similar characteristic was customary essentialized not so long ago: hereditary nobility, hereditary royalty. It seemed extremely important only 200 years ago, and yet it’s almost completely gone now, and hardly anyone is bothered by its disappearance…

    • Replies: @alan2102
    , @Santoculto
  114. utu says:
    @anonymous

    “The eccentric mania for measurement will subside “

    Not really if it serves the power structure. There will be funding coming often from strange and shady sources. See Charles Murray.

  115. @alan2102

    It’s psychometric general intelligence, ;)

    • Replies: @alan2102
  116. @Johan Meyer

    To say”there is little evidence for multiple intelligence” is not prudent. Specially when we have psychometricians on the right telling it because seems they will quickly conclude that “no there such people who are emotionally smarter, it’s just a better psychological traits arrangements”. They believe intelligence is only cognitive. Period. Thanks to the earlier psychometricians and for the lack of curiosity and perfectionism of subsequent generations of psychometricians to just try to see what their subject lacks. Of course I already understand the problem here. No there such thing “emotional intelligence separated from general intelligence”. Emotional abilities is in the domain of general intelligence. But there are that people who are emotionally smarter than others because they can understand better the emotional states of other people, they can know better other people and themselves if self knowledge also is part of emotional intelligence.

    G is a thing that psychometricians helps us to confuse or not to explain correctly what it’s mean. I found in Paul Coojimans blog the most simplest and correct explanation for g, read: Real g= (correct) pattern recognition. For everything we do we need , first of all, recognize patterns. This is the real g, what is underlying in every activity we do from the most trivial to the most important.

    You need develop more your statements. For example why or how education reduce mental load of IQ tests?? What is the mental load of IQ tests? I still don’t understand.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Santoculto
  117. @CanSpeccy

    There are two limitations with IQ tests. First, they measure not innate ability, but innate ability modified by experience, experience including education which may be lacking altogether, modest, intense or extreme (Mozart for example, whose father abandoned his own career to educate his children). You cannot do number tests without having been taught to be numerate, you cannot do verbal tests without having been taught to be literate, and standards of education vary immensely even at the elementary level. So what your test measures will never be pure innate ability.

    In my opinion the most severe flaws of IQ TESTS is

    - no have context. To be smart or smarter in real world we must have real scenarios, the real world to be/act like that;

    - IQ don’t ”measure” psychological aspects, because intelligence IS the combination of cognitive and psychological features.

    I don’t believe Mozart would not become a genius fundamentally because your father because he already had the touch of innate originality inside him. It was a partnership, without Mozart genius the dedication of your father is likely would be infertile. Yes in terms of creative achievement the world is not this linear and expected chain of events what many people believe, namely for those who are more independent or at least original to think but when this people find a place to specialize they tend to go deeply into this area.

    I ask how would be the scores of highly creative achievers aka geniuses in divergent thinking tests.

    IQ don’t measure creative achievement so i think your example of Mozart don’t make sense here.

    Yes, to score higher in IQ tests namely in verbal tests [arythmetic and verbal] we must need to be exposed to this respective knowledges, learn a language, be literate and numerate. But i still believe that in normal situations IQ is good to measure what it measure. good enough to express more than just a single number.

    But even if we have hypothetical situation: a ”feral” person [Tarzan] without numeracy and literacy and compared with a average-intelligence person with numeracy and literacy, i think the feral person, when she is exposed to the human cultural knowledge, she will learn faster, but specially, she’s likely will be more perceptive and intelectually curious than the average-intelligence person. We are talking about genotypical intelligence, strongly associated with pattern recognition skills.

    I don’t believe education is magical to improve or to decrease innate intelligence, specially before correct literacy and numeracy. It’s personality traits and yes, innate cognitive abilities, now associated with literacy and numeracy that will mediate the scholastic performance.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @CanSpeccy
  118. @Santoculto

    Of course, a ”feral” person WITH higher innate intelligence, born like that.

  119. @CanSpeccy

    ”Second, IQ tests are based on implicit assumptions about the nature of human intelligence, or at least the intelligence that the test is supposed to measure. Mostly, intelligence tests have been devised either to see whether potential army recruits can understand and rationally act upon instructions such as “this way up” or “keep away from an open flame”, etc., or whether prospective school entrants will be able to handle the curriculum.”

    I agree. IQ tests are also based on what their creators believe it’s the ”intelligent thing” to ask and to answer. Even with all this limitations, IQ in my opinion is reasonably good enough to measure cognitive aspects of intelligence. Not everything, but it’s something.

    In my case for example. I know in terms of ”general cognitive intelligence” i will score above average [Greenwich 100] but not above 120. General is just the perimeter of intelligence. If i’m compared with many people i know in this general and cognitive aspect i will be above-average. I can visualize it very well.

    In some degree, IQ tests undoubtedly serve such purposes, although perhaps no better than other kinds of tests, e.g., relevant academic tests for school entrants. But certainly they do not measure innate ability unmodified by experience. Further, they measure no more than a narrow range of what constitutes intelligence if, by intelligence, we mean the adaptive function of the central nervous system, a function that is manifest in a vast range of capabilities.

    I think IQ measure some innate abilities but embodied by ”cultural clothes”, for example, verbal ”intelligence” [;)]. Innate abilities or skin and literacy or ”cultural clothes”. You can deduct the shape of breast based on format he do in the clothes, specially if the clothes are thin. You can deduct ”verbal” innate ability based on how bigger [and qualitative] it be in literacy.

    And it’s the description and qualification of things that is underlying in verbal ability. ”We” invent and use words to associate them with real things and to descript and qualify them.

    I don’t think they measure a narrow, if verbal skills for example are extremely important for us, to communicate, to understand a mathematical problem, to verbalize the shape of geometric figures, etc… i think they measure the basal level of this.

    IQ is important but we must take into account psychological assessment and ”measurement” of creativity and rationality, and never treat it as ultimate evaluation, only for some perspectives.

  120. @CanSpeccy

    Such misrepresentation of what an IQ test measures results in absurdities such as in the case of a musical genius such as Derek Paravicini, who can identify by ear each of ten notes struck on the piano keyboard simultaneously, and like Mozart can memorize the Papal mass at a single hearing, but who yet has an IQ of less than 35.

    Paravicini born with Savant syndrome. A island of genius sorrounded by a ocean of deficience.

    He have or had a very unusual brain, with innate and/or natural ability to learn music at master or very professional levels at very faster way. I always think savant people are a great counterargument to the supposed and restrict necessity of the education, ;), because savant syndrome is a extremely intense and umbalanced demonstration about what also tend to happen with gifted people.

    Kinesthetic aptitude, for example, serves at least as importantly in assuring survival and reproduction as any intellectual capacity. And, boy, doesn’t that girl Simone Biles give you goose bumps? — her gymnastic performance is sheer genius.

    Yes, most people know that IQ don’t measure athletic skills.

    One of the two most fundamental flaws of IQ i don’t said in my previous comment

    IQ don’t ”measure”

    character /benignity

    self knowledge

    most of this IQ-tards or IQ-diots who think they are geniuses only because their higher scores in IQ tests and… simply don’t prove their self-declared geniuses lacks

    self-knowledge

    If all human beings have some of this fundamental traits just like rationality and self knowledge i doubt we still would live in this hell on Earth.

    But psychometricians specially on the right, seems, have little to nonexistent curiosity to learn more about self knowledge.

    Intrapersonal skills in my opinion is fundamental, primordial to the intelligence. If you misunderstood yourself the probabilities to be or to act in stupid ways will be higher. It’s just like the domino effect.

    Or what about Bill Clinton and his claimed 2000 conquests! The power and versatility of the human brain is amazing and it cannot be captured in any comprehensive way by some simple paper and pencil test however ingenious.

    We are talking about sociopathy too*

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @CanSpeccy
  121. @Santoculto

    G is mostly biological capacity and speed to correctly identify patterns. The paper to which I linked may be interpreted in this framework, on its author’s terms, as saying that biological pattern recognition capacity dominates variation in IQ at lower IQs, but that learned pattern recognition dominates at higher IQs. Have you ever worked with pattern recognition and neural networks? They are widely used to recognise patterns that do not necessarily fit trivial mathematical forms. Neural networks must be trained with data conforming to the pattern and not conforming to the data to successfully discriminate the pattern in data. For many patterns, education may play that role when raw biological computational power does not suffice to give a large portion of the population the ability to discriminate a given set of patterns.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  122. @utu

    It could be tested quite simply. There is a weak but real correlation between cranial volume and IQ. A stronger correlation may be obtained by using the average cranial volume of say a hundred people with the same IQ. Does the relationship between IQ and cranial volume hold as well at the higher end of the scale as it does at the lower end of the scale?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  123. @utu

    As I have taken an interest in the matter, two references, on paint and petrol. Note that most studies on blood lead in Africa are after the petrol phaseout and lead paint poisoning usually does not result in high average blood lead levels over time (my complaint about sporadic poisoning).

  124. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    you’re welcome.

    it’s been known for decades that iodine deficiency lowers IQ so anything that adds to or reduces a deficiency will effect people.

    and that is not just adding iodine itself (where deficient) e.g. more fish, but also other factors which may reduce the positive effect of iodine e.g. bromide, chloride, fluoride, lead(?).

    • Replies: @alan2102
  125. alan2102 says:
    @Johan Meyer

    If the IQ gap between Europe and sub Saharan Africa were primarily due to lead

    Who on earth ever has, or ever would, make such a preposterous assertion?

    Unless and until an environmental scientific account can explain the ethnic distribution of IQ in full, one will not have falsified the ethnic genetic hypothesis

    Perhaps, if said falsification is anyone’s goal. It isn’t mine. I think genes probably have some modest influence. But it is not terribly important, for reasons I mentioned up thread.

    and a premature effort at falsification is distraction from a larger and more important task of addressing the understood environmental problems

    I agree about “larger and more important task”, but I don’t think the distraction is that great. Maybe I am wrong. Why do you say what you say? Convince me that I am wrong.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  126. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    what it is that IQ measures

    brain health?

    (at least the many genes of small effect)

    (i suspect any large effect genes with negative side effects would more likely be the result of a selective niche)

  127. @Johan Meyer

    I think you are confusing social class with lead poisoning

    Because they tend to be poor, governments, specially in the past, with ZERO echological and social conscience, has transferred hard industries to the poor neighborhoods. So we have a association of three variables: [already existent] avg lower intelligence/lack of control impulse, black ethnicity and comparatively higher exposition to industrial toxicity.

    http://www.healthline.com/health/lead-poisoning#prevention8

    If most blacks [whatever the place they are**] are constantly presenting these symptoms, then we are actually talking about something closer to what you have advocated here.

    ”We” must prove that

    is really happening/happened a epidemic lead poisoning;

    that lead poisoning [in higher levels of contamination] reduce intelligence [''aka'' IQ] as zika virus cause microcephaly,

    that this reduction of intelligence will persists…

    I’m born and live in place where levels of lead poisoning has been lower and still i see the same white-black-whatever discrepancies in intelligence…

    The cognitive and psychological discrepancies are not local phenomena, it’s general, generalized, whatever place people are.

    I’m understanding your thinking lines, you are saying basically that ”lead poisoning is one of the responsible for lower intelligence/aggressive behavior of blacks, on avg”… so ”no there such thing innate lower black intelligence, it’s environmental AND by racist reasons”.

    Indeed poor people has been neglected about some basic rights throughout the human history but i think even all social injustice they have suffered, they are not poor only because the evil rich but because they born with lower intelligence and impulse controls, this factors make them vulnerable to the predation or parasitism of evil clever people.

    London population has been exposed for very higher pollution levels since a long time, whatever social classes, even because London city is quite demographically populated and not with bigger size but is not everyone who have their intelligence levels reduced…

    In the end, i’m trying to understand what’s going on and yes, based on what i see here where i live, blacks are not less smarter and more prone to violent behavior because evil white men but because themselves.

    And leftists tend to be extremely stubborn/intelectually arrogant, hypocritical, dissimulated and ignorant about human behavior.

    What do you think about en masse immigration to the western countries*

    Answer this question, please.

    Even, in this case you’re right, ”you” already have a historical of lies, dissimulations and stupid theories, for example, the so-called ”gender theory”.

  128. alan2102 says:
    @FKA Max

    Africans were taller when the colonial era ended in the 1960s. They may have lost height because of collapsing health care systems, rising population density and less dietary diversity among urbanites, the authors said.

    Yes. Colonialism was a mix of good and bad, mostly bad. The reaction to colonialism, the “push-back”, created conditions in some ways even worse than under colonialism; i.e. the remedy was in some ways worse than the disease. But the disease remains/remained the disease. The ugly truth is that the West/North fucked-over Africa horribly for centuries, and the fallout continues to this day. Part of the fallout is widespread malnutrition and disease, which naturally (is anyone surprised? COULD anyone be surprised?) results in stunting both mentally and physically, including low population IQs.

    For a good intro to the subject of how Africa has been fucked over for generations, read Patrick Bond’s Looting Africa: The Economics of Exploitation. The full text is free, online.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  129. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @alan2102

    I have no “secret beliefs”. I made it PERFECTLY clear what I believe, and you cannot possibly have missed it, unless you’re stupid, and I’m assuming you’re not stupid.

    That’s what I thought.

    from an earlier post

    …lead poisoning in Africa…high-fluoride drinking water (powerful goitrogen, iodine antagonist). Also a vast amount of iron deficiency…iodine deficiency, often responsible for lowering IQ by 10 points or more. Also a great deal of selenium deficiency; selenium being essential to thyroid hormone utilization (i.e. “iodine utilization”, to put it briefly); selenium deficit is the probable cause of cretinism — profound IQ loss (like, scores of points)…

    Cool. Personally all I ask from SJWs who can’t or won’t accept the genetic aspect (at least publicly) is they focus on biological solutions rather than the 60 years of sociological nonsense about pre-school, stereotype threat etc that will never work.

    It’s biological.

    What good are high IQs if they are used mostly to facilitate cheating and theft?

    No argument there. I’m personally more interested in raising the IQ of the left side of the Bell curve out of the “running with scissors” range as that’s where the consequences of low IQ are at their most bloody – particularly for the kids.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  130. @Johan Meyer

    The paper to which I linked may be interpreted in this framework, on its author’s terms, as saying that biological pattern recognition capacity dominates variation in IQ at lower IQs, but that learned pattern recognition dominates at higher IQs

    Yes i understand now. Basically lower IQ people have basal capacity to pattern recognition but higher IQ people already have the capacity to recognize complex/abstract patterns… because they are better to learn more of this complex things and tend to advance more based on this previous learnings.

    Basically, metaphorically speaking, we have a ladder. Lower IQ people tend to reach only the first step of this ladder while Higher IQ people have the capacity and usually reach many/more steps of this [convergent] ladder.

    If i finally understand well.

    For many patterns, education may play that role when raw biological computational power does not suffice to give a large portion of the population the ability to discriminate a given set of patterns.

    Do you could give some example about it*

    Play that role in lower IQ people*

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  131. @Santoculto

    My view is let the chips fall where they may. However, I do notice general ignorance (left and right, including among advocates for lead removal) a very large ignorance about lead poisoning realities (distribution of poisoning e.g. geographical, biomechanics e.g. wrt placenta, blood brain barrier etc).

    You say that your region has had lower poisoning—prior to leaded gasoline phaseout, what was the geometric mean blood lead level, and post-phaseout, what proportion of the infant population had bll above 10microgram per decilitre? In the sporadic poisoning regime, that number may be roughly multiplied by ten to get actual poisoning.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  132. @alan2102

    “For example, you cannot now lynch blacks, and you can’t let loose your inner bigot and yell “nigger!” at a black person anymore, whereas 60 years ago you could.”

    This is what I was speaking of, dim bulb. You don’t remember typing this? I guess you can’t make the appropriate connections in your argument. Not surprising. Your argument consists of regurgitating feelings and somehow believing that wasting everyone’s time running around with your head cut off accomplishes anything except alienating half or more of the population. The things you stand for were rejected in the last election. I’m not implying that elections are anything other than bread and circuses. I am saying that the productive people of the world are sick of trying to pursue your goals, which have ZERO percent chance of being realized. And this is the difference between thinking and feeling people. Thinking people know that utopia cannot be achieved and you don’t get extra points from the universe for believing that just clapping will bring back Tinkerbell. We see that society should function as smoothly as possible. It should “work”. Nations should not waste time an effort fixing something that can’t be fixed. Something that can’t be fixed is not a problem. It is fools like yourself that make it a never ending problem, one that requires more and more money spent on something that will never disappear. Let’s look at the following statement:

    “That’s what the phrase “general intelligence” does: it implies human potential in all domains. Does not quite state it, so there is plausible deniability (just barely), but strongly implies it.”

    So, general intelligence implies human potential in all domains? Obviously you need to make this statement because of the fact that it doesn’t. The definition of “general intelligence”, also known as g factor, refers to the existence of a broad mental capacity that influences performance on cognitive ability measures. Nothing about human potential. You made the connection because you cannot argue about IQ based on the facts, so you have to bring in your childish attempt to discredit it. Can’t have IQ or g factor showing that negroes are not as well equipped.

    Look, I can deal with your lies, misrepresentations, childish feelings, ad hominems, and non-existent logic on a point-by-point basis. But, it takes up space on the server and serves no real purpose. You are beyond reason. You exist in a make believe universe with no natural laws, just changeable feelings. Everything you believe is based on lies and false assumptions. You don’t even realize that every time a government takes on a “problem” that only your ilk sees as a problem, they don’t do it because they are well meaning. They do it because it forces the productive people of a nation to borrow money into existence to take care of this insolvable problem. And once started, it will never be stopped because the problem can’t be solved. You are a fool and delusional. You are a slave and you want everyone to be a slave, not a successful person.

    Oh, and you never answered. Are you black? I find blacks and women get the angriest about IQ discussions because deep down, they know intelligence is real and some people and races have more.

  133. @alan2102

    Since you do not have the debate skills to use reasoned argument, I am just going to point out to all the others reading this what your position encompasses. You are Stan/Loretta. This sketch is a good analogy of what you “want” to believe.

    JUDITH: I do feel, Reg, that any Anti-Imperialist group like ours must reflect such a divergence of interests within its power-base.

    REG: Agreed. Francis?

    FRANCIS: Yeah. I think Judith’s point of view is very valid, Reg, provided the Movement never forgets that it is the inalienable right of every man–

    STAN: Or woman.

    FRANCIS: Or woman… to rid himself–

    STAN: Or herself.

    [MORE]

    FRANCIS: Or herself.

    REG: Agreed.

    FRANCIS: Thank you, brother.

    STAN: Or sister.

    FRANCIS: Or sister. Where was I?

    REG: I think you’d finished.

    FRANCIS: Oh. Right.

    REG: Furthermore, it is the birthright of every man–

    STAN: Or woman.

    REG: Why don’t you shut up about women, Stan. You’re putting us off.

    STAN: Women have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.

    FRANCIS: Why are you always on about women, Stan?

    STAN: I want to be one.

    REG: What?

    STAN: I want to be a woman. From now on, I want you all to call me ‘Loretta’.

    REG: What?!

    LORETTA: It’s my right as a man.

    JUDITH: Well, why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?

    LORETTA: I want to have babies.

    REG: You want to have babies?!

    LORETTA: It’s every man’s right to have babies if he wants them.

    REG: But… you can’t have babies.

    LORETTA: Don’t you oppress me.

    REG: I’m not oppressing you, Stan. You haven’t got a womb! Where’s the foetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!

    LORETTA: crying

    JUDITH: Here! I– I’ve got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can’t actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody’s fault, not even the Romans’, but that he can have the right to have babies.

    FRANCIS: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister. Sorry.

    REG: What’s the point?

    FRANCIS: What?

    REG: What’s the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he can’t have babies?!

    FRANCIS: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.

    REG: Symbolic of his struggle against reality.

  134. @alan2102

    The reason I feel it is a very harmful distraction is because there is a critical mass of IQ researchers (the Human Biodiversity crowd) that has an immense interest in the matter. If they can be convinced to substantially test viable environmental models, it can force the hands of governments in poor countries. The leadership of the poor countries tend to believe in white supremacy, so if an account, however incomplete, of environmentally induced white supremacy can be given, especially from a white source, those rotters can be forced into action.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  135. alan2102 says:
    @utu

    I am sure you can suggest some reading material. Publications…

    I would love to, but I’m no longer in the business. I moved on.

    Years ago, around 2003-2010, I undertook a detailed study of this stuff — environmental, nutritional and related influences on brain development and IQ. My intention was to write a book on the subject. I was shocked by how much stuff was being ignored by the (so-called) “race realists”, and by how studied was their ignorance. I mean, for “realists” who supposedly had a passionate interest in IQ and influences on IQ, it was amazing how they apparently had never lifted a finger to learn about the many and sometimes profound influences on IQ! My intention was to remedy that.

    But, several things kept me from completing the project. For one, it is a LOT of work, since there is such a large literature on these subjects, and most of it is scattered; composing and organizing it all is a massive task, and an UNPAID task. I am not rich, or a tenured professor, or someone working on a comfortable stipend. Also, I am not the best person to do the job, not having the best qualifications (to put it mildly! high school dropout autodidact). Also, to some extent I lost interest as I came to realize that the whole “race realism” thing was largely a tempest in a teapot. At the time (and occasionally even now! see my fiery posts up thread) I felt like I had to fight the ugly tide of right-wingery associated with “race realism”. But the truth is that I don’t, because “race realism” has no power or influence and is not going anywhere. The great majority of people reject it — sometimes for poor reasons, but reject it they do, anyway. They sense its toxic (Stormfront-type) associations and they recoil in horror, as they should. So it is really not something that urgently calls for my activist efforts. “Race realism” will sputter along, impotently, for decades, but never go anywhere. Aside from a small coterie of rather dumb barely-literate Nazis (like AWM, here), no one is paying attention. Which is good.

    Anyway, that’s my story. Sorry I can’t give you a quick-’n-easy list of links to back up what I said. I should probably comb through the many megabytes of material, and many hundreds of citations, that I stored on disk, and come up with some kind of partial presentation (shy of the book that I intended, but at least something). That would be a good thing to do. If I get a month or so free, and some ambition for it, I might just do it.

    • Replies: @utu
  136. @alan2102

    Yes, of course I am. That’s what all of us do, almost all of the time. We do it because it is a very useful and indispensable technique.

    Specially when it’s against your enemy isn’t* ;)

    Yes, we tend to generalize a lot, BUT it’s smart stop to do it, at least, after to have good reasons to do it.

    Not really. They SAY they do. But they are almost invariably in the “born on third and think they hit a triple” group. There might be rare exceptions, but so what? What I say is generally true, and that’s good enough. In discussions with right-wingers I note that there is a complete absence of any awareness of the empirical work on social mobility and “meritocracy” — which clearly shows that the idea of meritocracy is largely rubbish. It is simply one of their cherished myths — one of the comfortable and comforting lies that they tell themselves. They must tell themselves such lies because the truth would be far too painful for them to face.

    So you’re basing yourself on your discussions with rightists?

    There are different types of rightists, i still think you can’t simply generalize them as if they were all the same.

    What i said.

    You deserve what you plant.

    If you’re clever enough to become super rich using the flaws or even the windows of the system so you deserve it.

    Rightism is mostly about self-responsibility. This explain why they tend to be nasty with ”loser” people, for example, with homeless people.

    [New] Leftism is mostly about responsibility of governors over the governed [at its surface, for sure, ;) ].

    Most rightist people, seems, are very hard working [believe in it at the point to engage themselves] and they work expecting be rewarded [they are more competitive, believe in meritocracy].

    There are no super-rich leftists. That is a contradiction in terms. Some rich celebrities support one or other pet “progressive” cause, but that does not make them leftists.

    Hillary is other example of fake leftist*

    Money perverts people and turns them into right-wing assholes, in nearly 100% of cases.

    OK.

    right is 100% evil,
    left is 100% good.

    There might be rare exceptions, but so what? What I say is generally true, and that is good enough. Leonardo DeCaprio is “concerned” about climate change, while he flies his private jet around the world. Fuck him. He is a right-wing asshole, barely different from the Koch brothers. You cannot atone for your right-wing assholery by a few pious statements of “concern”, or even by writing big checks to the relevant NGOs. Sorry.

    I think the terms ”right” and ”left wing”, even they have their validations, are old fashioned, evem because a lot of people ”on the right” and ”on the left” have more similarities than differences. The bigger confront is between vitalists and materialists.

    Materialistic people enphasizes ”material goods” over ”vital/life goods”, aka, humans or living beings. Money, a big house, a big and sophisticated car, are more important for them than other lifes.

    Vitalistic people enphasizes ”vital goods” over ”material goods”, and they are obviously right because we are talking about a inanimate objects and real living beings.

    Maybe you’re right that most of this celebrities and politicians {most of them} who are super rich are not truly ”left wingers”, concerned about social justice, but why most of leftists don’t think like you*

  137. @Santoculto

    About education, it is patterns that are not automatically accessible to higher IQ people—lower IQ are already excluded, as that basal pattern recognition is needed to learn and apply the more abstract and generalisable (math) and more specific (science) algorithms of pattern recognition. Only those with already substantial intelligence should be able to escape biological limitations of g, and then only partially.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  138. @alan2102

    What is important is the CAUSE if massive immigration. It was caused by right-wing assholes, pursuing policies that destroyed economies and cultures such that immigration to the West/North is the only route to a better life. You’ll note I said it was “caused by right-wing assholes”, NOT that it was caused by “current living white people”. It so happens that most of said right-wing assholes ARE white, but that is not important. As far as the currently living generation is concerned, that’s largely incidental. They could just as easily be black, or any other color. Or they could be women. Margaret Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, Condi Rice, and many others — all right-wing assholes. Your IDENTITY as a black, a latino, a woman, etc., does not atone for your right-wing assholery, either.

    Yes, but

    - policy of open borders (left wing);

    - ”brainwashing” the new generations of theory of nonexistence of human races ((left wing));

    - white guilty ”brainwashing” (((left wing)))

    just this examples, happened a lot to this very problematic situation in the west.

    So almost of this people who advocate for white racism, multiculturalism and nonexistence of human races are indeed right wing assholes**

  139. @alan2102

    Indeed. Life sucked for most white people, too. Poor and working-class whites had it bad. White slavery was a real and terrible thing. Do not mistake what I am saying as a buy-in to the racial reductionistic narrative that locates the blame for everything on whites. That’s not the case, and is not at all what I believe. White supremacy has been responsible for a ton of atrocities and outrages, but it is not responsible for everything, not even close.

    I know about working classe whites. How english workers were [ab]used specially during the first and second period of industrial revolution. I mostly agree in this part.

    I believe there are tons of superiority, equivalence and inferiority about everything in the world, even between races, even this scenarios can change completely and now who is the predator can become the prey, but i think when you recognize important superior aspect of yourself in comparison to other people, you don’t legimitate you to do what you want with this people.

    True. If you’re in a survival situation, you had best have some of those reptilian qualities. But then, 99.9% of us live, 99.9% of the time, in situations where those qualities are at best useless, and at worst destructive.

    I think to the castle be safe enough for us don’t worry about our own survive, sentinels are extremely important to protect us/the castle.

    Unfortunately the same predator detector skills that remain ”the castle” safe tend to make sentinels more insensitive about other important issues.

    The issue is not whether or not you believe that “corrupt ones must be jailed”, because of course EVERYONE believes that. The issue is WHAT YOU CAN SEE; specifically, what corruption and criminality you are capable of seeing. Most people, for example, do not see that the prison-industrial complex is a gigantic immoral and criminal enterprise that should be dismantled immediately. Most people do not see this because they are in the grip of a right-wing mass media and right-wing education, and are deluged with right-wing propaganda day in and day out, with almost never any serious critique.

    Why prison-industrial complex must be dismantled**

    Do you believe most of prisoners are innocent*

    • Replies: @alan2102
  140. @Santoculto

    As to immigration, I shall restrict my comments to large scale immigration such as is now a problem. There is the concern about IQ and cultural practices, the concern about ethnic displacement, and the concern about elite motivation.

    As to ethnic displacement, that is evil, both in the first and third world; see a rant by Andre Vltchek in regards the latter. I cannot condone it.

    As to cultural practices, once they become entrenched in the new home, they become harder to eradicate there than in the old home. Cases in point: FGM (almost absent in northern Nigeria, very strongly present in southern Nigeria—consider likely route of transmission) and honour killings (Palestinian if Fisk is to be believed, yet seems to be a bigger problem in the Diaspora than in historical Palestine). So another evil…

    As to IQ, we shall see—my intuition is that inter-ethnic IQ is dominated by environment, but some of that is cultural (e.g. mercury based skin bleaches), and much of Europe only recently phased out leaded petrol (outside Germany and the Nordics), so the children of immigrants should be pathological for a while yet (tendency to settle in larger cities; tendency toward lactose intolerance hence little calcium intake to displace lead).

    As to elite motivation, I think they want sheep, cheap labour (the threat of immigrant scabs), and the breakdown of ethnicity as a source of commonality for resistance to elite designs.

  141. alan2102 says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    no one with…the slightest acquaintance with the literature – particularly twin studies – has any doubt that smart patents tend to have smart kids and vice versa

    No one with the slightest acquaintance with the literature critiquing the twin studies has any doubt that the twin studies are not what they’ve been cracked-up to be — probably not even close.

    Will the twin study technique eventually be consigned to the wastebasket of pseudoscience? Who knows? But it is a possibility.

    http://logosjournal.com/2015/joseph-twin-research/

    The Twin Research Debate in American Criminology

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  142. alan2102 says:
    @utu

    Are you alluding to Jews?

    No.

  143. @Santoculto

    I missed that you are from London (I assume UK, not ON Canada). What proportion of London blacks were born in UK? Lead poisoning is largerly an issue in infancy wrt crime, IQ. Also, for those areas with UK born blacks, what is the age of the housing stock? Lead paint was banned in the 30s in UK iirc. As to lead and pathology, despite my disagreement on epidemiology with Nevin, I do recommend his website as a starting point—though I am suspicious of his dose response (IQ) based on the epidemiological concern.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  144. @alan2102

    Irrelevant. Instances of retail interpersonal non-bigotry are quite cheap and count for little. The real action is in the ideas that you propagate, the institutions you support, the ways you obtain and spend money. You cannot atone for your right-wing assholery by marrying a non-white, especially an asian, or by having a few non-white friends, especially asians. I know that right-wing assholes would LOVE to believe otherwise, and I’m sorry to disappoint them.

    Even he is a ”right wing asshole” i don’t think their works about jewish-east asian-white-black IQ and socio-economic outcomes discrepancies exactly a pseudo-science, what do you think about it*

  145. @Johan Meyer

    I understand that external signs of harsh lead proportion in the air and in the ground are based on number of heavy industry in the region and in my region, where i was born and where i actually live at least in terms of number of heavy industry and atmospheric pollution has been lower than in other places. For example, lower than in big brazilian cities, no doubt.

    You know to the positive diagnosis of lead poisoning is need people have correlate symptoms as well in medical exams.

    Do you believe blacks are, on avg, innately less smart than whites*

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  146. @Santoculto

    In particular I would like your comments about this piece by Nevin (again, with my complaint about BLL)… It strikes me as a direct test of the claimed causality, with strong failure to falsify.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Santoculto
  147. alan2102 says:
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    I disagree that ‘races’ are evident: there are different definitions, borderlines are very much blurred already, and likely to become more and more blurred in the future, until this particular classification will stop making sense completely.
    I also disagree that it is important (essential). A very similar characteristic was customary essentialized not so long ago: hereditary nobility, hereditary royalty. It seemed extremely important only 200 years ago, and yet it’s almost completely gone now, and hardly anyone is bothered by its disappearance…

    YES! And this is another reason that I lost interest. Taking the long view, race is doomed to irrelevance and non-existence in the modern/post-modern worlds of high mobility, social/marital mixing/dilution, combined with prevailing views which obscure or dismiss race as a category entirely. It might take another century, but it will happen. Race itself is doomed, and with it, racism and “race realism” and the like. Which of course is a good thing.

    • Replies: @anon
  148. @Johan Meyer

    Only those with already substantial intelligence should be able to escape biological limitations of g, and then only partially.

    Are you talking about creativity here*

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  149. alan2102 says:
    @Santoculto

    It’s psychometric general intelligence

    But no one actually uses that phrase — “PSYCHOMETRIC general intelligence”. Ever. EVER.

    A google search for the phrase “psychometric general intelligence” returns 32 hits. 32!

    A google search for ” general intelligence” returns 636 THOUSAND hits.

    This is deliberate. It is not referred to as “psychometric” general intelligence because that would place a proper, realistic, honest limit on the idea. The IQ-ists don’t want that. They want to claim — arrogantly, presumptuously, self-importantly — GENERAL INTELLIGENCE. Get it?

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  150. alan2102 says:
    @anon

    not just adding iodine itself (where deficient) e.g. more fish, but also other factors which may reduce the positive effect of iodine e.g. bromide, chloride, fluoride

    Yes, in addition to other goitrogens, including organic dietary ones such as cyanogenic glycosides, richly supplied by the non-indigenous (introduced by the colonizers) staple food cassava. Goiter and hypothyroidism are rampant throughout Africa, with disastrous implications for brain development and IQ. The real action with respect to iodine is thyroid status, as I pointed out up thread. All of this is well-documented, if anyone cares to look.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  151. @alan2102

    That article has a severe scientific logical problem. Irrespective of whether, in the final analysis (perhaps two decades from now), crime and IQ is in fact due to genetics (see some results published on this site, not relying on twin studies—Bengali blogger who has since left), it is perfectly valid to develop a scientific model/hypothesis involving genes, perform simulations, and see if your genetic assumption is falsified—it is a good common sense check. It does not prove that genes are responsible, but the onus is on those who seek to disprove such a result. And the route of said simulations has been closed off, by the researchers doing that check.

    • Replies: @utu
  152. @Santoculto

    Not creativity as normally understood, though some creativity is needed to find and encode these pattern recognition processes.

  153. @alan2102

    I’m sorry moderators. I can’t resist.

    “Communism DID work to raise hundreds of millions out of serfdom and miserable poverty, and to extend life expectancies dramatically.”

    The fact that you would say this shows that you are either incapable of honesty or you are an idiot. Or both. This alone disqualifies any of your posts. If you actually believe this, your entire position is one of self-deception.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @alan2102
  154. @Santoculto

    I am not sure wrt Brazilian cities—it depends on the era as Brazil reduced lead petrol. What portion of the smelter fallout is biologically available e.g. ionic, as opposed to metallic?

    As to blacks, it depends on what you mean by innate. I have no hope that someone with a low IQ will later have a high IQ. As to their offspring, my intuition is that the latter’s environment will determine most of that outcome, but the chips will fall where they may—I may be wrong and it may be predominantly genetic—but I do hold that genetic causality has not yet been demonstrated, especially for group differences. Environmental models are woefully incomplete, and assignation of genetic effect will be in competition with environment.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  155. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @alan2102

    It might take another century, but it will happen. Race itself is doomed, and with it, racism and “race realism” and the like. Which of course is a good thing.

    Not in China.
    Not in India.
    Not in Africa.
    Only in the once-White countries.

    This is where egalitarianism combined with denying the reality of genetics leads: SJW support for the global genocide of white people.

    It’s the same reason for the institutional psychological abuse of white children in the schools over “privilege.” Their “privilege” is genetic and so for the Left the only way to equalize things is the eradication of white children – kinda like a racial version of the Khmer Rouge.

    Alternatively they could admit genetics is the reason and instead of dragging one group down they could lift other groups up – but that would involve having to admit they were wrong. Much easier to scapegoat white children in the schools.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @alan2102
  156. @alan2102

    Thanks for that. I shall be spreading that information among my west African friends.

  157. @Johan Meyer

    I believe epidemic lead poisoning must need have a demographically monumental manifestation of their symptoms throughout human populations.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  158. alan2102 says:
    @anon

    Personally all I ask from SJWs who can’t or won’t accept the genetic aspect (at least publicly) is they focus on biological solutions rather than the 60 years of sociological nonsense about pre-school, stereotype threat etc that will never work. It’s biological.

    The “sociological nonsense” like preschool programs, anti-poverty programs, etc., ARE biological and make a modest contribution to the desired outcomes. They exert effects that are ultimately biological. For example, by reducing poverty, improving neighborhoods and other “sociological nonsense”, we reduce stress and cortisol levels. Cortisol (HPA axis activation) has a substantial impact on brain development and IQ, particularly fluid intelligence; cortisol in excess literally causes brain ATROPHY. Such programs are good and necessary, but they are not sufficient. They are weak, and need to be combined with other, more powerful technics.

    In the course of work along these lines we will no doubt discover interesting complementarities and synergies; like, say, reduced stress COMBINED with improved omega-3 fatty acid nutrition COMBINED with zeroing-out exposure to goitrogens might be found to have a gratifying synergistic impact on brain development and, ultimately, IQ. This is a fertile field for research, which could easily go on for a century or more before we have good answers. The research has not even begun.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  159. @anon

    Really? Based on which observations?

    • Replies: @anon
  160. alan2102 says:
    @alan2102

    I just wrote: “In the course of work along these lines we will no doubt discover interesting complementarities and synergies”

    I was talking about positive (desirable, beneficial) synergies. But it can work the other way, too — negative (undesirable, harmful) synergies. For example, iron deficiency (vast prevalence in Africa and South Asia, surprisingly prevalent also in the developed world, particularly among disadvantaged mothers and their children) greatly increases the susceptibility to the harmful effects of lead. A negative synergy.

  161. @Anonymous White Male

    China, Russia both had massive increases in life expectancy, despite (because of?) famines (caloric intake limitation?), as did Chile (see Andre Gunder Frank on the de facto famine in the first few years of Pinochet—the open letters to Friedman and Harbeggar (spelling?) and nationmaster or similar for the rise in life expectancy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous White Male
  162. @Johan Meyer

    Innate i mean predominant and easily transferable condition.

    I also believe that some people may have more resistance to all this industrial toxicity than others. If not everyone in Eastern Europe and China would be suffering this effects.

    What i already said. Blacks, on avg, have lower intelligence even before industrial revolution, slavery is a example.

    Yes, epidemic poisoning can increase problems and i no doubt many cases has been reported but i doubt this scale is gigantic and extremely influent as seems you are suggesting, well, i can be wrong, absolutely.

  163. @Santoculto

    The problem of lead poisoning is that its symptoms are non-specific, e.g. IQ loss, stomache ache, constipation aka colic, and only at very severe poisoning do very specific symptoms manifest, e.g. blue lead gumline. Blood lead works for a consistent poisoning regime, but not so well for sporadic poisoning, hence my wish to have large scale bone K-edge subtraction diagnosis, although correction for age is needed, as well as for subsequent occupational exposures.

  164. @Johan Meyer

    thank you for this interesting comment. I am looking at blood lead dose-response relationships at the moment.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  165. alan2102 says:
    @Johan Meyer

    The reason I feel it is a very harmful distraction is because there is a critical mass of IQ researchers (the Human Biodiversity crowd) that has an immense interest in the matter. If they can be convinced to substantially test viable environmental models, it can force the hands of governments in poor countries.

    1. The HBD crowd has no power and no influence. Which is good. They don’t deserve to have any power or influence. They’ve failed to police themselves, failed to expunge the Nazi and allied toxic elements from their ranks. They’ve put themselves in an untenable position, and the untenability is deserved. It is not so much that they are wrong, scientifically; it is that they have failed to construct the appropriate cordon sanitaire around their field, screening-out the scum. So, they are now getting what they deserve: obscurity, dismissal and censure.

    2. No one’s hands need to be forced. It is not like that, not a power play thing. It is a general development thing, an economic latitude thing, and a persuasion thing. It is difficult to make environmental changes, and it requires general development, as well as programmatic and administrative funding and persistence.

    For one small example: there are hundreds of salt companies in Pakistan. To achieve total iodization of salt in Pakistan, alone, is a big project. An office must be set up and staffed, the program/regulations need to be economically reasonable for the subject salt companies, there needs to be good followup and testing to ensure compliance, and so on. Further, once such a program is established, it has to be maintained, for decades, which is not a trivial matter. Programs such as iodization programs are often set up and then, for various reasons (usually budget-related) they are partially or entirely disbanded, and things go back to the pre-program state. Get the picture?

    Doing this kind of stuff is a big, long-term deal. My example is of just ONE thing (iodine) in ONE country. Multiple that by a couple dozen factors (not just iodine, but iron, and goitrogens, and omega-3 fatty acids, and environmental lead and mercury and PCBs, and lots of other IQ-relevant things) and then multiply THAT by scores of countries.

    In sum, it is a GREAT BIG HONKIN’ DEAL, a huge long-term project, which requires funding, organization and persistence, probably under the aegis of an institution of the general character and reach of the United Nations, in a wide variety of cultural and political contexts, over decades. See? BIG, BIG DEAL. Not at all a simple matter of “forcing their hands”.

    The HBD crowd will have no role and no influence in the century-long global project that ultimately results in the environmental and human developmental outcomes that, themselves, ultimately result in higher population IQs. One of the reasons for this (apart from what I already mentioned, above) is that the HBD crowd is far, far too obsessed with the narrow matter of IQ, when the real problems that the world faces — i.e. that the human family and that the human project in general faces — are broad environmental and human developmental ones. IQ is simply one “side effect”, albeit an important one (IMO). The proper emphasis is on general development, rather than narrow obsession with a cognitive measure.

    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Johan Meyer
  166. @Johan Meyer

    I’m not sure what you are implying. You usually seem open to facts, but the implication in response to my comment that praising Communism shows inferior mental reasoning and self-justification for SJW BS makes me wonder if your post is showing a positive opinion about Communism. It may not be. I checked out your links. The China link showed that life expectancy increased once the Great Leap Forward ended. Not surprising. People were no longer being killed for ideological “impurity”. But the fact that Chinese life expectancy is almost at European levels is at a time when China can no longer be considered Communist. Oh, sure, they are in name, but they have embraced elements of Capitalism so they can compete on the world stage. The Russia link does not specifically support increase in life expectancy that I can find. The comment that specifies this says:

    “You know what he’s leaving out of this? The fact that the USSR doubled the life expectancy by the end of the Stalin-era. In the 60’s at one point it actually surpassed that of the US. The figure he is quoting here is from the present, post-Soviet time. It’s a well-known fact that the fall of the USSR led to a sharp decline in life expectancy. Nice try, pal.”

    This is a deluded opinion. Where is a link to these stats? Can you post it? The Stalin regime was notorious for its propaganda disseminated to the West. Plus, the death of millions of Kulaks and other non-believers would definitely lower the life expectancy, don’t you think?

    Pinochet was a Fascist. Are you saying that a Fascist regime also had increases in life expectancy? If so, what does that have to do with Communism? I may have missed your point.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Johan Meyer
  167. @Wizard of Oz

    Interesting question. I don’t have a simple guide to all intelligence tests, but agree that it would be useful. There are overviews in “IQ and human intelligence” Nicholas Mackintosh 2011 and “Human Intelligence” Earl Hunt 2012 , but I don’t have a brief version. A task for someone. The most commonly used are probably Wechsler, Kaufman, Woodcock-Johnson, Raven’s and Cattell.
    On Vocabulary tests I have posted some ideas

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/vocabulary-humanitys-greatest

  168. alan2102 says:
    @Santoculto

    Why prison-industrial complex must be dismantled**
    Do you believe most of prisoners are innocent*

    Yes, as presently constituted — as the racist and human-rights obscenity that it is — of course it should be dismantled. That does not mean that all prisoners are innocent or that none need to be detained, perhaps in a prison-like institution. There IS such thing as dangerous, anti-social criminals who should be locked up. But the prison-industrial complex as it exists is an utter human rights outrage, housing huge numbers of perps of victimless “crimes”, in addition to other faults, and if you spend even one hour looking into it you will agree with me, if you are a decent human being.

    https://www.libertariannews.org/2011/09/29/victimless-crime-constitutes-86-of-the-american-prison-population/

    Victimless Crime Constitutes 86% of The Federal Prison Population

    http://returntonow.net/2016/06/13/prison-labor-is-the-new-american-slavery/

    How Prison Labor is the New American Slavery and Most of Us Unknowingly Support it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow

    The New Jim Crow

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  169. @Anonymous White Male

    My point is that violent and ideological regimes often do improve life expectancy—the net effect (lengthening by things such as land reforms and very foundational scientific development minus losses due to killing) is often positive. Most of the increase in life expectancy did occur under stalin, though the question of his crimes is separate. Communism was effectively being subject to a small clique and the various forces they unleashed, for good and for evil. I prefer a liberal order, though most of the countries that underwent spectacular growth in the 20th century started as very illiberal—see Dani Rodrik’s paper on Taiwan and South Korea. I would like to see the developmental effects in terms of ground work for development achieved under the illiberal regimes, achieved under more liberal regimes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous White Male
  170. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Based on observations of SJWs, often ex teachers, who know that some part of group differences is genetic but won’t admit it.

    Knowing this leaves them with two choicess:
    1) raise the lower group
    or
    2) lower the upper group
    but raising the lower group requires first admitting they were wrong so they choose option (2) – the mass institutional child abuse of white children in schools over “privilege”.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  171. @Anonymous White Male

    Robert Lindsay who is left but hbd, had an article on the matter. Unfortunately his links are now dead, though he should be able to find them (etext archive got merged with archive.org if I understand correctly).

  172. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @alan2102

    The HBD crowd has no power and no influence.

    The “sociological nonsense” like preschool programs, anti-poverty programs, etc., ARE biological and make a modest contribution to the desired outcomes.

    I’d say the shift to biological environmental arguments is a step in the direction of the HBD position – which is based on biology – even if the motives aren’t always.

  173. utu says:
    @alan2102

    But, several things kept me from completing the project. For one, it is a LOT of work, since there is such a large literature on these subjects, and most of it is scattered; composing and organizing it all is a massive task, and an UNPAID task.

    So you are lazy person with strong ideological beliefs.

    not having the best qualifications (to put it mildly! high school dropout autodidact)

    That shows plus some personality disorder. Are you sure you are getting right micro elements balance in your diet?

    • Replies: @alan2102
  174. @James Thompson

    I am glad to have stirred your interest. The dose responses will invariably mix sporadic and continuous dose, often in the same individual, so the dose response to BLL I expect will be a function of time and place of the study. Sporadic dose will necessarily introduce very wide variance if blood rather than bone is used as tissue.

  175. @anon

    Let the chips fall where they may. There are some confounds, though—irrespective of genetic causation, stupid children will not get smarter if lead is causal, and blacks are more likely in the US to live in lead painted structures.

  176. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Yes, liberals are very much into ‘races’; it’s one of their favorite identities.

    I disagree that ‘races’ are evident: there are different definitions, borderlines are very much blurred already, and likely to become more and more blurred in the future, until this particular classification will stop making sense completely.

    It’s not a good thing, i live in Brazil and most people here, who are mixed race, are not superior than anyone, otherwise, it’s a nightmare for real smart people.

    The extermination of pure races, primarily white caucasian race, is the globalistic/global elitistic process. It’s not good in any instance. I would no had problem with it if were based on truth and uncritical ideals but it’s not.

    You disagree. It’s extremely easy to discern a caucasian blue eyes person from a black african dark skin person. I’m not talking about what you disagree or what i disagree, but what is, whatever our personal opinions about it.

    hereditary nobility, hereditary royalty. It seemed extremely important only 200 years ago, and yet it’s almost completely gone now, and hardly anyone is bothered by its disappearance…

    You can’t compare a true social construct with races, primarily, a biological construct.

    Anyone with ”load-poisoned” brains as lieberals, seems…

    I can agree that races MAY BE NOT relevant, depend the perspective we are enphasizing, but while we have people who give relevance to it, ”she” still be relevant…

    I’m more concerned about psychological ”races” than physiological, but in the end, because all this liars and psychopaths manipulating ”us”’ to believe races don’t exist i become totally against this kaballistic global mèlange.

    In the IDEAL world, pure and mixed races will live in harmony and will have a perpetual balance between them.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  177. alan2102 says:
    @Anonymous White Male

    “Communism DID work to raise hundreds of millions out of serfdom and miserable poverty, and to extend life expectancies dramatically.”

    The fact that you would say this shows that you are either incapable of honesty or you are an idiot.

    The fact that you would say this shows that you are either ignorant of history or that you are an idiot. Or a combination of the two, which is likely in your case.

    Russia and China before their revolutions were horrible places with life expectancies of ~30. Life expectancies went from ~30 to ~60 within a short few decades after the revolutions, due to dramatic improvements in general conditions — nutrition, medicine, sanitation, etc. People were desperately poor, dying by the millions at very young ages, before the revolutions. China was a horrid feudal backwater, as was most of Russia. The communists instituted huge improvements for the common people on all fronts: public health, nutrition, medical care, education, and so on. The demographic stats clearly reflect the improvements. This is well documented, a matter of undeniable statistical record. Although it IS frequently denied by ignorant and/or stupid right-wing turds.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  178. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I looked at “The Twin Research Debate in American Criminology” (http://logosjournal.com/2015/joseph-twin-research/) I do not see anything there that could invalidate twin studies of IQ heritability This is unfortunate because the de facto definition of heritability that is used in IQ research should be addressed to tackle the problem.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Johan Meyer
  179. @alan2102

    ”Victimless” is a poor criteria.

    Any type of crime against other, specially if s/he is innocent, cannot be tolerated.

    I believe there is a factor g too for criminality. Someone who steal other people by futile motivation already have impulse to do other bad things, specially with inocent people.

    Crimes is a manifestation of extreme lack of control as well lack of real empathy. Less when you practice against other criminal, ;)

    Maybe we have the same ”new jim crow” in places like Norway, ;)

  180. @alan2102

    Let us start with iodine. I am opposed to iodinated salt as a means of addressing iodine deficiency. Prior to bromine displacing iodine in bakery of bread, most people got their iodine from bread, both in the US and USSR.

    Secondly, most of the world has analogue​s to western racism, be it state nationalist hatred toward other states, ethnic, clan or tribal animosity and nepotism, and so forth. If you wish to address environmental issues of IQ, then you must act to some extent within these confines.

    A Bangladeshi once gave me an example, regadding environment and corruption. Some of his age mates decided that they want to do something about estuary pollution, fish populations and peasant nutrition. They got their necessary academic degrees, paid the necessary bribes to become lower level wildlife managers, and went to work. They showed peasants that if they catch the young fish and release them into ponds, hence protecting them from pollution, then release them back into the rivers once they are large enough, the adults are far healthier, and the population is larger. Catching young fish and consuming them is likely to get one battered now.

    Salt iodination requires that stupid and foolish people conduct themselves wisely.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  181. @alan2102

    The communists instituted huge improvements for the common people on all fronts: public health, nutrition, medical care, education, and so on

    as well a lot of lead poisoning, ;)

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Santoculto
  182. @utu

    Heritability is a statistic used in breeding and genetics works that estimates how much variation in a phenotypic trait in a population is due to genetic variation among individuals in that population

    =

    identical twins concordance…

    ;) It’s don’t make sense.

    I’m more fan of inheritance than heritability, this concept is already too vague, at least for me.

  183. @Santoculto

    It’s extremely easy to discern a caucasian blue eyes person from a black african dark skin person

    I don’t know. Frankly, to me these two guys:

    look less dissimilar than these two:

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
    , @Santoculto
  184. @utu

    The study is very problematic; I did not finish reading it. The more interesting question is to what extent IQ that is inherited is due to inherited environment and due to genes. The one useful comment in that piece that I noticed is that monozygotic twins spend much time together. It would be interesting to do a bone study to see how well their bone lead correlates. Another study of interest would be a comparison of heritability of IQ of medium SES white (tolerable proxy for absence of lead paint) twins before and after lead petrol phaseout. That should give a relatively clean estimate of genetic standard deviation of intelligence.

  185. @Mao Cheng Ji

    oops. it was showing images in preview… Here:

  186. @Santoculto

    Petrol lead poisoning, yes, though the USSR was one of the first to ban lead paint iirc, though probably on an incomplete understanding. China has recently been undermining efforts to ban lead paint.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  187. The problem is not the twin studies but the name people are using to call it, SEEMS

    Twin studies ”just” have proved what most people already knew: identical twins are often very similar one each other and yes, it’s prove that genetics have a large impact in our behavior but even without it, people with great self knowledge perceive it in their behaviors.

  188. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    IQ is well correlated with ability in multiple fields

    Except that creativity is understood as among the highest forms of intelligence by anyone but a psychologist with a stake in the business of intelligence testing.

    Thus, for example, Rushton, wrote:

    Eysenck suggests that intelligence* and creativity are essentially independent. In earlier work, Eysenck (1983) argued that creativity is significantly related to IQ up to about IQ 120, but after this, becomes independent of IQ. This has also been the view of other reviewers, none of whom downplays the importance of intelligence (e.g., Vernon, 1987).

    To most people, it would seem a contradiction in terms to suggest that intelligence is independent of creativity, since we view creative genius such as that of people like Newton, Einstein, Feynman (IQ 123) as the highest form of intelligence.

    However, psychologists have a large stake in establishing their authority to grade mankind according to “intelligence,” and therefore they refuse to acknowledge that anything not measured by an IQ test can be intelligence, even though this forces them into absurd contortions such as claiming that creative genius is not a form of intelligence.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  189. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Santoculto

    IQ don’t measure creative achievement so i think your example of Mozart don’t make sense here.

    My point was precisely that the highest form of intelligence, i.e., creativity, is not measured by an IQ test. Therefore, and IQ test, whatever it measures, is not a comprehensive measure of what people understand by the term intelligence.

  190. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Santoculto

    Yes, most people know that IQ don’t measure athletic skills.

    Kinesthetic ability being an aspect of intelligence, understood as the term is defined e.g., by the Merriam Webster dictionary:

    (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations…

    So physical coordination is a vital part of intelligence, and the fact that psychologists blithely ignore it in their assessment of human ability is further proof of their narrow and misleading acceptation of the term intelligence.

    The Greeks of ancient times were more intelligent in this regard as is evident from their emphasis in education on developing physical as well as mental skills.

  191. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Santoculto

    most of this IQ-tards or IQ-diots who think they are geniuses only because their higher scores in IQ tests and… simply don’t prove their self-declared geniuses lacks self-knowledge

    Your comment reminds me of an old classmate. In our first term at a new school I came first in the class in, I think, every subject, he came last. After studying the announcement of results posted on the classroom noticeboard, he peered around the room — he was terribly short-sighted, with Coke-bottle-bottom glasses — until, picking me out, he strode across the room hand outstretched and said “Well done ….” Recently, I saw it announced that my charmingly well mannered classmate had received an honor from Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II, for his contribution in the field of social services.

    So, yes, self-knowledge, humility, and decency can pay off big-time as a means of adapting the individual successfully to their environment, and thus should be understood as an important aspect of intelligence.

    • Replies: @Anonymous White Male
  192. @CanSpeccy

    Your model of creativity may be simply refined intelligence. I have a different model of creativity, to wit: a baseline or more intelligent individual has some goal and incomplete understanding. That understanding is then used to attempt to achieve the goal. The attempt fails, and reflection results in modified understanding, including of the methods used to attain the goal. The process repeats. This works as well for music as for science. So while I disagree with independence from intelligence, I also disagree with identity and variation.

  193. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    There is a weak but real correlation between cranial volume and IQ.

    Yes, very weak, 7% according to Stephen Jay Gould, and that probably due largely to the effect of pathological microcephaly giving the relationship a small slant.

    It is interesting in that connection, that the brain of Carl Friedrich Gauss, perhaps the greatest mathematician of all time, was found on autopsy to weigh a mere 1,492 grams (only slightly above average) . As a result, there were some who concluded that Gauss could n’t have been such a great mathematician as people had thought.

    We see the same reaction to revelations such as that neither Shockley nor Alvarez, winners of the Nobel Prize for physics, made the cut when tested by Terman for his long-term study of gifted individuals: they really couldn’t have been that smart.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Johan Meyer
  194. @Johan Meyer

    Well, you’re welcome to your opinion. Land reform? How do you quantify that? The Kulaks possessed their own land prior to Stalin’s reforms. He basically stole their land and gave it to the State. Sure, that’s a “reform”, but is it a “liberal” reform as you define it? And again, I don’t see how you can posit an increase in life expectancy when millions were killed in engineered (which may be debatable) famines and during WWII (which is not debatable). Think about that. How can you possibly say there was an increase in life expectancy when maybe 30 to 40 million people died due to famine and 25 million due to WWII. Won’t those reductions in life spans skew life expectancy results? I think we can state that all they could do would be to reduce national life expectancy. So, where are reliable statistics that support your original contention? And are they verified by any non-Soviet source?

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Mao Cheng Ji
  195. alan2102 says:
    @anon

    Alan2102: ” It might take another century, but it will happen. Race itself is doomed, and with it, racism and “race realism” and the like. Which of course is a good thing.”

    Not in China.
    Not in India.
    Not in Africa.

    You’re right. I was too optimistic when I said one century. Try: TWO centuries. It will take that long for general development to reach a level that allows full mobility and mixing, as it is now doing in the more-developed parts of the world (U.S. and Europe). China has a good start and will be first, then India, then (in, say, ~150 years) Africa.

    As general and economic development proceed, as people become more educated, better-nourished, healthier and more intelligent, they leave the provincialism of the “old country”. They look to travel, to experience other people and places, often to relocate, and of course generally to MIX, including sexual and marital mixing. It is all part of general development.

    This is where egalitarianism combined with denying the reality of genetics leads: SJW support for the global genocide of white people.

    Oh for God’s sake. “Genocide”! You view the general development and upliftment of the human race, resulting inevitably in racial mixture, as “genocide” of your “pure” whiteness. Gads. Shades of Madison Grant or Lothrup Stoddard. It is fortunate indeed that there are so few people like you, and that your kind are dying off. A century ago, people like you were everywhere. Now, ~2017, you’ve been reduced to a tiny struggling band, soon to be extincted. Thank heaven. The arc of human progress is long, but it trends ever toward improvement.

    It’s the same reason for the institutional psychological abuse of white children in the schools over “privilege.” Their “privilege” is genetic and so for the Left the only way to equalize things is the eradication of white children – kinda like a racial version of the Khmer Rouge.

    Jeezuz M F Christ. Well, like I say, the HBD world has marginalized itself, and those paranoid and ridiculous words are a good example as to why. When you put things in Stormfront-speak, like you just did, (“eradication of white children”), you contribute to the consignment of the HBD/”race-realism” community, to the extent that you represent it or are tolerated by it, to the permanent dustbin of justifiably rejected and abhorred bullshit. Not rejected because it contains no grain of scientific truth (it DOES contain grains of truth), but because of the racist wingnut bilge that is associated with that truth. Or, as some wag put it: “who you ARE speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you are saying” (i.e. “your gross character flaws overwhelm whatever minor grains of objective fact you may be uttering”).

    It might be possible for the HBD community to rehabilitate itself, over a couple or three decades. But it would have to re-construct itself, completely eliminating the Stormfront/Nazi wingnut types. You simply can’t have those kinds of people in your community and expect society in general to take you seriously. Don’t you see that? Is anyone listening? Hey, I’m trying to offer friendly advice with which you might have a snowball’s chance of actually getting somewhere in this world. :-) I actually have a soft spot in my heart for lost or nearly-lost causes, like HBD.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Santoculto
  196. @CanSpeccy

    You have a problem with the concept of intelligence. You are trying to define it to fit your preconditioned perception. I know you’ve gone out on a limb and have staked out a position, but humility, decency, and adapting to ones environment are not intelligence any more than intelligence is humility, decency, and adapting to ones environment. Here are synonyms for intelligence:

    intellectual capacity, mental capacity, intellect, mind, brain(s), IQ, brainpower, judgment, reasoning, understanding, comprehension, acumen, wit, sense, insight, perception, penetration, discernment, smartness, canniness, astuteness, intuition, acuity, cleverness, brilliance, ability, braininess

    Words have definitions. To study something with the scientific method you must define your terms. If a term is defined as one thing and then someone wants to redefine it to suit their argument, that is just an attempt to misrepresent your opinion as being valid.

    You also use the concept of “Kinesthetic ability being an aspect of intelligence”. What a joke! You are implying that muscle memory is the same as intelligence. I know that this is an argument that people making excuses for low IQ scores for blacks started using to try and equate blacks’ ability to run and jump as some form of intelligence. Sorry, that is something that occurs on a physiological level, not at the seat of intelligence. But, it is as genetic as intelligence. Its just not intelligence.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Santoculto
  197. alan2102 says:
    @utu

    So you are lazy person with strong ideological beliefs.

    Yes, a couple thousand hours of unpaid labor on the project, with reluctance to continue when contemplating many thousands MORE unpaid hours, sure does prove that I am a lazy ass mofo.

  198. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Perhaps Carl Friedrich Gauss did not get enough iodine and yes, selenium? And too much lead. I am sure his metal cups he used contained lost of lead.

    When UN is going to start spraying iodine over Africa to flood the world with mathematical geniuses?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  199. alan2102 says:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12700371

    N Engl J Med. 2003 Apr 17;348(16):1517-26.

    Intellectual impairment in children with blood lead concentrations below 10 microg per deciliter.

    Canfield RL1, Henderson CR Jr, Cory-Slechta DA, Cox C, Jusko TA, Lanphear BP.

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND:
    Despite dramatic declines in children’s blood lead concentrations and a lowering of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s level of concern to 10 microg per deciliter (0.483 micromol per liter), little is known about children’s neurobehavioral functioning at lead concentrations below this level.

    METHODS:
    We measured blood lead concentrations in 172 children at 6, 12, 18, 24, 36, 48, and 60 months of age and administered the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale at the ages of 3 and 5 years. The relation between IQ and blood lead concentration was estimated with the use of linear and nonlinear mixed models, with adjustment for maternal IQ, quality of the home environment, and other potential confounders.

    RESULTS:
    The blood lead concentration was inversely and significantly associated with IQ. In the linear model, each increase of 10 microg per deciliter in the lifetime average blood lead concentration was associated with a 4.6-point decrease in IQ (P=0.004), whereas for the subsample of 101 children whose maximal lead concentrations remained below 10 microg per deciliter, the change in IQ associated with a given change in lead concentration was greater. When estimated in a nonlinear model with the full sample, IQ declined by 7.4 points as lifetime average blood lead concentrations increased from 1 to 10 microg per deciliter.

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Blood lead concentrations, even those below 10 microg per deciliter, are inversely associated with children’s IQ scores at three and five years of age, and associated declines in IQ are greater at these concentrations than at higher concentrations. These findings suggest that more U.S. children may be adversely affected by environmental lead than previously estimated.

    Comment in
    Intellectual impairment and blood lead levels. [N Engl J Med. 2003]
    Intellectual impairment and blood lead levels. [N Engl J Med. 2003]
    Intellectual impairment and blood lead levels. [N Engl J Med. 2003]
    Exposure to lead in children–how low is low enough? [N Engl J Med. 2003]
    Intellectual impairment in children with blood lead concentrations below 10 microg per deciliter. [J Pediatr. 2003]

    PMID: 12700371
    PMCID: PMC4046839
    DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa022848
    Free PMC Article

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  200. FKA Max says: • Website
    @alan2102

    Thank you.

    What is your take on the influence of the Catholic Church/Vatican in Africa, in particular when it comes to birth control, etc.? http://www.population-security.org/

    White Davos Men Urge Africans to Maintain Sky High Fertility

    http://www.unz.com/comments/isteve/white-davos-men-urge-africans-to-maintain-sky-high-fertility/

    Bush birth control policies helped fuel Africa’s baby boom

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article24566695.html

    Opposition to birth control also comes from the Roman Catholic Church, the country’s largest
    [...]
    WALLACE: Well then, ironically enough one of the greatest forces against communism in the world, the Catholic Church, according to your thesis would seem to be pushing us directly into the hands of the communists because they are against birth control.

    HUXLEY: Well, I think this strange paradox probably is true. There is, er…, it’s an extraordinary situation actually. I mean, one has to look at it, of course, from a biological point of view: the whole essence of biological life on earth is a question of balance and what we’ve done is to practice death control in the most intensive manner without balancing this with birth control at the other end.
    [...]
    Melinda Gates: ‘I’m a Catholic, but women need access to contraceptives’
    [...]
    The Effects of ‘Youth Bulge’ on Civil Conflicts

    http://www.cfr.org/world/effects-youth-bulge-civil-conflicts/p13093

    Between 1970 and 1999, 80 percent of civil conflicts occurred in countries where 60 percent of the population or more were under the age of thirty, according to the PAI report. Today there are sixty-seven counties with youth bulges, of which sixty of them are experiencing social unrest and violence.

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/2016/10/14/?commenterfilter=FKA+Max

    There are about 35 million Catholics in the country[1] with six archdioceses and 41 dioceses.[138] The impact of the Roman Catholic Church in the Democratic Republic of Congo is difficult to overestimate.[!!!!!!!] Schatzberg has called it the country’s “only truly national institution apart from the state.”[139] Its schools have educated over 60% of the nation’s primary school students and more than 40% of its secondary students. The church owns and manages an extensive network of hospitals, schools, and clinics, as well as many diocesan economic enterprises, including farms, ranches, stores, and artisans’ shops.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-empire-strikes-back-the-msms-3-point-plan-to-recapture-the-narrative/#comment-1686225

    You should be more sympathetic towards the Alt Right and the HBD crowd (they are not quite the same thing, but there is much overlap), since you have much in common with them. Most of them (the intelligent ones) are against “brain-draining” the Third World of its most talented people and they also oppose exploiting and extracting African resources, etc., and they are in favor of birth control foreign aid to the Third World, etc.:

    There is a reason the Catholic Church opposes the Alt Right:

    Catholics Stand against Alt-Right Wrongs

    https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/catholics-stand-against-alt-right-wrongs

    The Pro-Life Temptation

    https://altright.com/2017/03/19/the-pro-life-temptation/

    http://www.unz.com/forum/why-the-alt-right-loves-single-payer-health-care/#comment-1831100

    The “Latino” Oligarchy, as is often the case with Mercantile elites, is short-sighted and profit oriented. Their alliance with the Church has put in place a system that pays no heed to genetic inheritance. When the Catholic Church is in power in Latin America, whether the stronger ecclesiastical current of time is on the Right or Left, the arc of history will always lead to a country (even one as white as Argentina) that looks like Brazil or the Dominican Republic, with all of the politico-economic problems that entails.
    [...]
    This was due entirely to the influence of the Catholic hierarchy on politics. The now Pope Emeritus, Benedict XVI denounced the policy to make birth control affordable during his visit at that time. So the churches right wing makes sure the poor non-White Catholics have more children than they can care for, and the church’s Left wing keeps them in the pews through its social gospel discourse and demands that wealthy responsible White People submit to invasion by their parishioners. Just to reemphasize, the Left and Right wings of the Church are not opposing social forces, they are merely the right hand and left hand of the same dysgenic system.

    https://www.counter-currents.com/2015/10/white-nationalists-need-planned-parenthood-not-the-pope/

    • Replies: @alan2102
  201. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    When UN is going to start spraying iodine over Africa to flood the world with mathematical geniuses?

    Dunno about Africa flooding the world with geniuses, but it looks pretty certain that they are going to flood the world, with a projected population growth of 1.3 billion in the next 35 years.

  202. alan2102 says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I am opposed to iodinated salt as a means of addressing iodine deficiency. Prior to bromine displacing iodine in bakery of bread, most people got their iodine from bread, both in the US and USSR.

    There are several routes to correction of micronutrient deficiencies in populations, and none of them are perfect. Each has advantages and drawbacks. Salt iodization is good in some ways, not so good in others. It is a toss-up. Relying on iodinated dough conditioners is not optimal, either. Perhaps the best approach might be a mix: modest nutrification of salt, iodinated dough conditioners, direct supplementation of vulnerable populations, and modest nutrification of drinking water. Or, much better, though longer-term, is to make it possible and likely that the population will eat more iodothyronine-containing foods, like seafoods, good milk, eggs and insects. These are far better than iodine supplements, in part because of the (crucial) quality of the iodine provided, but also because of the other brain-specific nutrients therein, including but not limited to zinc, iron, taurine, selenium, retinol, omega-3 fats, etc., etc.

    most of the world has analogue​s to western racism, be it state nationalist hatred toward other states, ethnic, clan or tribal animosity and nepotism, and so forth. If you wish to address environmental issues of IQ, then you must act to some extent within these confines.

    True, and this goes to the points I was making about general development. You must act within those confines initially, of course, but as development proceeds — as modernity takes hold — those atavistic tendencies (racism, tribal animosity, etc.) start to fall away. As a society becomes more developed, it becomes easier to become more developed, in a sort of virtuous cycle. As people become better-nourished, healthier, better-educated and smarter, they create systems, institutions and contexts in which it is more likely that they will become better-nourished, healthier, better-educated and smarter. Most of the planet is still underdeveloped and pretty darn retarded, but if we can refrain from blowing ourselves up or ruining the climate, there’s a good chance that we’ll recover from our retardation and build a great new world.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  203. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @alan2102

    Not rejected because it contains no grain of scientific truth (it DOES contain grains of truth)

    So, if you accept that some percentage of the gap is genetic you must accept that some percentage of the institutional psychological abuse inflicted by people like yourself on white children for their “privilege” is unjustified.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  204. @Johan Meyer

    Source?

    Yes China is just now try to become less anti ecological and little pro human rights. Living being rights…

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  205. @Santoculto

    Don’t forget complete lack of free speech and diversity of ideas….

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  206. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous White Male

    Oh dear! Another of those poor sad souls unable to understand intelligence except as it has been redefined by the psychos to mean what they measure with an IQ test. For such people, that IQ equals intelligence is merely a tautology.

    For those who accept common usage not the dictates of narrow-mined and self-serving academics, intelligence is, as the Merriam Webster dictionary indicates, the ability to modify behavior according to circumstances in ways that are adaptive: logically, that definition includes kinesthetic aptitude without which your chances of survival outside of a padded room will be quite low.

  207. @Santoculto

    Don’t forget that comunist China is anxious to start “eugenics”…

  208. @Anonymous White Male

    If you take the average life expectancy, given your numbers for the death tolls, of both before and after the famines, life expectancy may not have changed as much. Post famines, the life expectancy average (i.e. of those still alive) was much higher.

    As to the alleged Soviet data (Stalin sympathetic source) Kulaks, the version I heard was that having multiple horses was the standard for being a Kulak, as the community occasionally reassigned land, going back to Tsarist times, as the Kulaks were also of the former serf class rather than landed gentry. What is the source of Kulak land ownership?

    As to non-Soviet sources on life expectancy, those academic studies that look at life expectancy in the Soviet union invariably in the final analysis rely on Soviet data, which is a consequence of the illiberal character of the regime—only foreign military attaches had the means of substantial data gathering outside the state. So the matter is not directly testable. The closest available measure to a test is the change in life expectancy reported in the first years after Stalin’s death. Also keep in mind, with regarda to life expectancy, that it is a mean of age at death—many of the people killed by Stalin would have lived at least half of their natural life span (born and lived before the Soviet union), so the effect, even in the tens of millions case would be to shave off about four years of the average (assume 20 years mean remaining, and 20 percent killed).

  209. @Santoculto

    I cannot sea using this device to which comment you are responding, but I assume it is in regards China and lead paint. The source is VOA, which might also have its own biases.

  210. @alan2102

    Complicated try yo debate with a genocidal fanatical as you Alain.

    Alain: The planet earth is ours…

    Poor fauna and flora. This type will dominate the beautiful blue planet only because “inhuman Boeings” want to “know” new places, cultures… So cute and irresponsible.

    New cultures, culinary, Yuumi, the same brainless zombies I see in my house, when I studied in university, want the entire planet only for them. Fuck biodiversity, human and nonhuman…

    Planet earth is doomed. Human cancer will dominate every place and in the future thanks to the white slaves “we” will have the same luxurious lifestyle of first world countries, draining even their last resources before to migrate for other victim-candidate planets to host human parasitoid beings. ;)

    Poor people who no have economic conditions to travel when they want and are those who suffer a lot with”immigration”, in the case of south Africa for example, don’t seems be happy with all this sweet situation.

    First, hbd is not alt right that is not neonazism

    The first group are very heterogeneous and don’t care a lot about white nationalism. The second group care about not only white nationalism but with white self defense, I’m not talking about white upper classes but middle AND specially working classes..

    Seems quite complicated establish some bridge of sanity with you. Unfortunately I don’t know who you are to know if you are just a clever psychotic or if you lack basic character.

    It’s a waste of time try to establish some point of reasonability with you. You’re just dancing above white working classes sacrifice…

    I hope your unrealistic”utopia” be destroyed soon… And with you inside.

    No doubt MOST of leftoids are brainless at the best and I’m not rightist or even conservative, I’m true moderate and always search for reasonable and factually correct “point of views”.

    Human “progress” require a lot of present day sacrifices is not Al?

    • Replies: @alan2102
  211. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    if the foundation of IQ is (mostly) the frequency of many genes of small effect then denying it means low IQ groups can’t improve themselves.

    telling the truth would allow women to make different reproductive choices.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  212. @CanSpeccy

    But that matter (Gauss’s brain mass) is precisely the kind of data (when suitably averaged) that would fail to falsify the idea that at higher IQs, the g-loading drops off. It is one data point, though, so it is early for me to celebrate.

    The relevant concern is for the below average population.

    • Replies: @utu
  213. @CanSpeccy

    The relevant question is whether IQ results correlate with intelligence as commonly understood. Aside from your definition of creativity, do you dispute such a correlation, and a strong one at that? If not, what are you driving at?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Mao Cheng Ji
  214. @Anonymous White Male

    Always the same forced dichotomy…

    Kinesthetic skills need intelligence too, period. You need memory and reasoning to learn and internalize a set of routines, in the case of gymnastics, for example. You need quick thinking even in situations you must need improvise. Rationality and creativity are also required specially in the highest levels.

    And yes there are some pure manifestations of intelligence, read: Brain-centric and less body-centric or kinesthetic. To think/analyze -criticize, for example is a pure manifestation of intelligence. Analyze a gymnastic routine is more about intelligence/brain-centric/pattern recognition than to do a physical activity/body-brain-centric. In the end every voluntary behavior must need intelligence. But I understand that for humans this connection body mind become less intense as for other species for example birds were kinesthetic skills are essential to the survive and usually very connected or simultaneous with more intellectual/brain-centric activities. Or not and I’m saying bulshitism..

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @CanSpeccy
  215. Among the 100 more polluted cities in the world a lot are in ex-communist countries in Eastern Europe or in China, a current politically communist country. More specifically the top 20 of most polluted seems most are in this countries.

    And, I’m not saying “so capitalism is infinitely better”, no way.

    • Replies: @alan2102
  216. @alan2102

    Yes Alain, “planet” is retarded and you’re a special type of this sad macro-conjuncture.

    You’re thinking too far to the ground. Some reasonable people call it psychosis.

    For sure, only whites are atavistically racist…

    You see a perpetrator
    I see a victim..

    I don’t think you have the touch of wisdom in your hands to talk about progress or harmony…

    • Replies: @alan2102
  217. alan2102 says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China

    “In 1949 [at the time of the revolution --alan2102] crude death rates were probably higher than 30 per 1,000, and the average life expectancy was only 35 years. Beginning in the early 1950s, mortality steadily declined; it continued to decline through 1978 …. Health care has improved dramatically in China since 1949. Major diseases such as cholera, typhoid, and scarlet fever have been brought under control. Life expectancy has more than doubled, and infant mortality has dropped significantly.”

    http://www.sciencemagazinedigital.org/sciencemagazine/20110729?folio=581&pg=93#pg93

    “China’s most substantial mortality decrease took place in the period between 1950 and 1975 [i.e. the Mao years, first generation after the revolution --alan2102], when the country was still one of the poorest in the world. This rapid decline in the death rate is mainly a result of economic development and improvements in education and health services, especially the public hygiene movement…”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union

    “After the [Russian] October revolution, the life expectancy for all age groups went up. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. This improvement was seen in itself by some as immediate proof that the socialist system was superior to the capitalist system.[8]”

    http://www3.sympatico.ca/sr.gowans/reds.html

    October 19, 2004
    Hail the Reds
    By Stephen Gowans
    snip
    “Where Reds have prevailed, the outcome has been far-reaching material gains for the bulk of the population: full employment, free health care, free education through university, free and subsidized child care, cheap living accommodations and inexpensive public transportation. Life expectancy has soared, illiteracy has been wiped out, and homelessness, unemployment and economic insecurity have been abolished. Racial strife and ethnic tensions has been reduced to almost the vanishing point. And inequalities in wealth, income, opportunity, and education have been greatly reduced. Where Reds have been overthrown, mass unemployment, underdevelopment, hunger, disease, illiteracy, homelessness, and racial conflict have recrudesced. Communists produced gains in the interest of all humanity, achieved in the face of very trying conditions, including the unceasing hostility of the West and the unremitting efforts of the former exploiters to restore the status quo ante. What they achieved surpassed anything achieved by social democratic struggle in the West, where the advantages of being more advanced industrially, made the promises of socialism all the more readily achievable – and to a far greater degree than could be achieved elsewhere in the world. Hidden, or at best, acknowledged but quickly brushed aside as matters of little significance, these are achievements that have been too long ignored in the West – and greatly missed in the countries where they were reversed in the interests of restoring the wealth and privileges of a minority.”

    • Replies: @utu
  218. alan2102 says:
    @Santoculto

    Among the 100 more polluted cities in the world a lot are in ex-communist countries in Eastern Europe or in China

    Development is DIRTY BUSINESS, Santo! The U.S. learned that many decades ago. Blackened skies, terribly polluted water, etc. But then, dirty development gives rise to cleaner development, and then still cleaner development. All part of the process. China is perhaps ~30 years behind the U.S., on this trajectory. Maybe less. They are spending megabucks on cleanER development. Their use of coal has peaked and is now declining. Of course it will take some decades to clean things up.

    At least, development WAS dirty business, 1800-2010 or so. Things are changing. It is becoming possible — with, among other things, cheap, high-efficiency solar and other renewable technologies — to undertake much much cleaner development than ever before. Starting approximately now, in most parts of the world, coal-burning plants are no longer necessary. India’s development (major project for the next half-century) can be powered largely with renewables, as can Africa’s development (more like next full century).

  219. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Hod do you know that Gauss had high IQ? He never was tested.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  220. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    The relevant question is whether IQ results correlate with intelligence as commonly understood.

    If by “intelligence as commonly understood” you mean as defined by the Merriam Webster dictionary, then the answer appears to be that they are not well correlated, though there is bound to be some correlation — Shockley could not, presumably, have invented the transistor without the logical capacity (measurable presumably with an IQ test) that is necessary to mastery of the elements of solid state physics.

    The thing is, though, Shockley did not need an IQ sufficient to meet Terman’s criterion of exceptional giftedness, to discover what many with similar access to knowledge as himself and higher IQs failed to discover.

    And if, as I think is consistent with the commonly understood definition of the term, you include as an aspect of intelligence, capacities manifest as social skill, then probably you can have exceptional intelligence of that particular kind despite a perhaps rather modest IQ.

    Whether you consider Simone Biles’ kinesthetic skills a manifestation of intelligence, is perhaps open to debate, but let there be no doubt that those skills depend on properties of the central nervous system, both spine and the brain. They are certainly not, as someone bizarrely stated above, due to “muscle memory.”

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  221. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Santoculto

    But I understand that for humans this connection body mind become less intense as for other species for example birds were kinesthetic skills are essential to the survive

    Not always. Not until recently anyway. Here in British Columbia, as recently as the 1970′s, the fatal accident rate in the lumbering industry was over 1% per annum, which meant anyone spending a lifetime working in the woods had a better than 30% chance of being killed on the job. For that reason, it was a tradition in the industry that if a boss saw a man stumble or otherwise act in a clumsy fashion, the man would be fired on the spot (for his own good, as well as that of his workmates).

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  222. alan2102 says:
    @Santoculto

    only whites are atavistically racist

    Everyone, at a certain (low) level of development, is racist. I’m sure there are more racist blacks and browns in the world than racist whites. It is quite natural, but not fixed. Development solves the problem, with the exception of an inevitable few stragglers. Once development has happened, there’s not much excuse for clinging to your atavistic racist impulses. This is the noblesse oblige of development: you are obligated to become a decent (less animal-like) human. But it is also much easier, and much more fun, to become a decent human.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  223. alan2102 says:
    @Santoculto

    Planet earth is doomed. Human cancer

    I can relate. I got bitten by the Malthusian nihilism bug many years ago, too. But I gave that up. Of course, it IS true (as I said up thread) that humanity might blow itself up or precipitate unrecoverable climate catastrophe. Those things are possibilities, I know. I pray that it does not come to that.

    I hope your unrealistic”utopia” be destroyed soon… And with you inside.

    Thanks for the kind thoughts, Santo.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  224. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @anon

    if the foundation of IQ is (mostly) the frequency of many genes of small effect then denying it means low IQ groups can’t improve themselves.

    Can’t see how knowing the genetic basis of IQ is going to help. The only way that low-IQ groups are going to improve there IQ, or any other aspect of their intelligence, will be through selective breeding, either selection by natural processes, e.g., as the result of differences in fertility related to occupation or income, or as the the result of state intervention, i.e., eugenics.

    Most people seem to think eugenics is bad, but it is probably not as bad as dysgenics, which is what all the Western welfare states practice now by paying mainly stupid or idle women to breed at public expense, preventing the indigent from dying of cold or hunger, etc.

    To combat these adverse effects of their own policy, Western states import millions of energetic, ambitious and fairly intelligent people from the Third World, thereby replacing their own population with people from elsewhere. This is a policy usually described as pro-diversity anti-racism, whereas it is in fact genocide of the European people in the furtherance of globalization.

  225. alan2102 says:
    @anon

    …institutional psychological abuse inflicted by people like yourself on white children

    You’ve got me there, anon. I forgot about the terrible, terrible institutional psychological abuse inflicted by people like me on white children. I promise hereby to reform myself, after a suitable period of contemplating my crime in contrite silence. Thereafter, would that I become a worthy and faithful supporter of the white race against the dreadful Rising Tide of Color.

    14/88!

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @anon
  226. @utu

    True, I don’t know that Gauss had a high IQ, but as there seems to be no suggestion of savantism, the assumption that the past was like the present, coupled with his obvious achievements and the correlation between intellectual achievements and IQ suggest that he likely did. At any rate, your observation that he was not tested means that I must drop him as a data point. Bummer.

  227. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Can’t see how knowing the genetic basis of IQ is going to help. The only way that low-IQ groups are going to improve there IQ, or any other aspect of their intelligence, will be through selective breeding, either selection by natural processes, e.g., as the result of differences in fertility related to occupation or income, or as the the result of state intervention, i.e., eugenics.

    There’s a third kind of selective breeding – women being more choosy over who they get pregnant by. if they were told traits like IQ and violence were partly hereditary they’d adjust their decisions.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  228. @CanSpeccy

    To what extent did Shockley master the elements of solid state physics? The Shockley-Read-Hall comes from a cartoon level simplification of band structure coupled with consideration of effective mass so that the continuity equations for electrons and holes can be written. I didn’t have to master band structures to follow the math, and I do not know whether he had such a detailed understanding as you ascribe to him—we are talking, as a first step, of using three dimensional Fourier transforms of the crystal structure, to find the band structure (momentum energy diagrams).

    His development of the bjt was accidental, and the understanding of operation was not due to detailed band structures, but due to application of Fick’s law iirc.

    And the Shockley Ramo theorem, clever as it is, requires only classical electrodynamics, albeit with some implicit results from low carrier density semiconductors.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  229. alan2102 says:
    @FKA Max

    What is your take on the influence of the Catholic Church/Vatican in Africa, in particular when it comes to birth control, etc.? http://www.population-security.org/

    When it comes to birth control, of course they are a bad influence.
    On the other hand:

    There are about 35 million Catholics in the country[1] with six archdioceses and 41 dioceses.[138] The impact of the Roman Catholic Church in the Democratic Republic of Congo is difficult to overestimate.[!] Schatzberg has called it the country’s “only truly national institution apart from the state.”[139] Its schools have educated over 60% of the nation’s primary school students and more than 40% of its secondary students. The church owns and manages an extensive network of hospitals, schools, and clinics, as well as many diocesan economic enterprises, including farms, ranches, stores, and artisans’ shops.

    Right, and that is why it is not smart to blanket-denounce the Church! What they do is a very mixed bag, probably more good than bad.

    Also, one other comment in (very very mild) defense of the Catholics: although their anti-birth-control jihad is obviously wrong and bad, especially for Africa, it is also true that far too much has been made of “overpopulation” as a global problem. The problem is not overpopulation, it is overconsumption. There are too many over-consuming rich people. (See: Herve Kempf: How the Rich are Destroying the Earth.) The church is wrong to be standing in the way of birth control, but they are correct that “overpopulation” hysteria has gone too far. (At least historically it has. Not quite so much in recent years.)

    You should be more sympathetic towards the Alt Right and the HBD crowd (they are not quite the same thing, but there is much overlap)

    Yes there is much overlap, and that’s a problem. When you go to prominent alt right sites (like counter-currents that you linked), you find, for example, a prominent display of works by fanatical Nazi Savitri Devi! Not only a fanatical Nazi, but also a key figure of “esoteric Naziism”, i.e. the occult/Nazi nexus. A double-whammy.

    If you have any intention of advancing HBD, you simply CANNOT have those kinds of first-degree associations. It instantly puts you in a category with deviant whacko creeps, like Satan-worshippers, or public advocates of pedophilia, or KKK Grand Dragons, or the like. Do you see what I’m saying? You CAN’T have those kinds of associations! Unless you just don’t give a shit, and it is OK with you that HBD remains marginal and irrelevant forever. I’m giving you sincere advice, even though I’m not on your side. I’m embarrassed for you guys — watching you shoot yourselves in the foot.

    since you have much in common with them. Most of them (the intelligent ones) are against “brain-draining” the Third World of its most talented people and they also oppose exploiting and extracting African resources, etc.

    They DO?! I’m skeptical. If they are genuinely against exploitation and extraction of African resources, then they are almost by definition left anti-imperialists. I doubt that. But I am open to being proved wrong.

    As for being “against brain-draining”: this is an aspect of their nativism and desire to “keep the muds OUT!”; i.e. their anti-brain-draining sentiment is not coming from a decent-human-being place (unwillingness to rob), but from a mean, ethnocentric place. Yes, it might produce the same effect, and that’s OK, but intent matters too. In other words: they appear to be assholes, even if some of the objective effects of things they advocate might be good. But again: prove me wrong. I enjoy being proved wrong.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  230. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @anon

    There’s a third kind of selective breeding – women being more choosy over who they get pregnant by. if they were told traits like IQ and violence were partly hereditary they’d adjust their decisions.

    You kidding?

    Do you have the slightest idea how the lower orders breed?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @anon
  231. alan2102 says:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4672305/

    Sci Rep. 2015; 5: 17963.
    Published online 2015 Dec 8. doi: 10.1038/srep17963
    PMCID: PMC4672305

    The Inevitability of Ethnocentrism Revisited: Ethnocentrism Diminishes As Mobility Increases

    Soham De,b,1 Michele J. Gelfand,a,2 Dana Nau,3 and Patrick Roos1

    Abstract
    Nearly all major conflicts across the globe, both current and historical, are characterized by individuals defining themselves and others by group membership. This existence of group-biased behavior (in-group favoring and out-group hostile) has been well established empirically, and has been shown to be an inevitable outcome in many evolutionary studies. Thus it is puzzling that statistics show violence and out-group conflict declining dramatically over the past few centuries of human civilization. Using evolutionary game-theoretic models, we solve this puzzle by showing for the first time that out-group hostility is dramatically reduced by mobility. Technological and societal advances over the past centuries have greatly increased the degree to which humans change physical locations, and our results show that in highly mobile societies, one’s choice of action is more likely to depend on what individual one is interacting with, rather than the group to which the individual belongs. Our empirical analysis of archival data verifies that contexts with high residential mobility indeed have less out-group hostility than those with low mobility. This work suggests that, in fact, group-biased behavior that discriminates against out-groups is not inevitable after all.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @utu
    , @anon
  232. @alan2102

    You will pray?? Are you hearing it mister planet?? He will pray for your luck!!

    Such a…

    For nothing sweet Alain!! ^_

    I think you earned it _^

  233. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    His [Shockley's] development of the bjt was accidental.

    Not really, according to this account. Or if there was an element of chance in the development, it was of the kind that favors the prepared mind.

    Shockley was an MIT PhD grad in physics and had been appointed team leader by the Bell Laboratories to invent a device that does what a transistor does (whatever that may be). He had a hunch as to what would work and pushed his guys to keep trying until they found the right modifications to confirm his hunch.

    Having developed several commercially successful patented products, I see Shockley’s approach as consistent with my experience of a systematic and diligent search in the right place for the chance that is needed. A very sound fellow, that Shockley, I would say. By which I mean intelligent.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  234. @alan2102

    Dissimulation and performance is in your blood isn’t??

  235. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    In fact, if you try flashing your IQ-140 Club badge where the welfare mums hang out, all you’d probably get is having your teethe punched out by one of the local lads.

    • Replies: @anon
  236. utu says:
    @alan2102

    Ethnocentrism Diminishes As Mobility Increases

    Really? Gypsies and Jews have very high mobility. The latter in more ways than one and I do not see there any decrease in their ethnocentrism.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  237. @alan2102

    Yes in your rainbowled mind whites who have such criminal attitude only can act like that because their irrational, aka, instinctive impulses and not because they are recognizing patterns of higher % of bad behaviors from the blacks. It’s the color of skin we are seeing and not the bad behaviors being constantly associated with blacks, specially young and men.

    Many whites and I are, since a long time find associative patterns of violence and other irrational attitudes for example DISRESPECT a common attitude of many blacks against other non black people but also among themselves.

    But.. It’s just a instinctive, aka, irrational impulses. Of course we can find assholes in all human so-called races, but we can find even more assholes in some groups than in others. For sure, dark skin don’t cause bad behaviors per si and there are numerous minority or even a tiny majority of them who are… I can say… Normal or reasonable people in variable levels.

    Seems reasonability it’s something you don’t born with. It’s just your personal war against rightness but also against reasonableness. Why you don’t try to joint correct part of both sides??

    You accuse other people to be instinctive but I think you still don’t understand what instinct is.

    Instinct is not violent behavior per si. Violence or aggressive behavior is a common product of instinct specially in dangerous situations.

    Instinct is auto pilot ou automatic mode of think and behave. No reflection of your own thoughts and actions. Among social species usually instinct can become social too. The same auto pilot but more directed go the social issues. You born like that and your mind-body system order him and you act based on this dictatorial relationship. Your self is doomed since when you was born. So when you simply generalize a entire group (who are not generalizable because it’s diverse) and conclude arrogantly that this group no have any good points and your group/TRIBAL-esque are always right so you’re acting in instinctive way. So sorry for that!

    We hate blacks too much because they have dark skin. It’s your thinking about deplorable ones?

  238. utu says:
    @alan2102

    Where Reds have prevailed [...] homelessness, unemployment [...] have been abolished.

    This is correct, they were literary abolished by rounding up homeless, unemployed, invalids and sending them to camps. This had been done with street urchins kids bezprizorni who because homeless after their parents vanish in great purges in late 1930s. The same was done to invalids of the Great Patriotic War in late 1940s who were sent to camps were often they were starved to death.

    https://thevieweast.wordpress.com/2012/06/21/the-littlest-enemies-children-of-the-stalinist-era/

    “There Are No Invalids in the USSR!”: A Missing Soviet Chapter in the New Disability History

    http://www.dsq-sds.org/article/view/936/1111

    There was a much darker side to Soviet policy vis-à-vis disabled veterans, whose continuing need for more support was unwelcome evidence of the Soviet state’s inability or unwillingness to adequately provide for all citizens’ needs. During the late 1940s and 1950s disabled veterans were dispersed from Moscow and other large cities for forced resettlement in remote areas. According to Fieseler (2006:51), kolkhoz supervisors in rural areas, in order to shed inefficient disabled workers, sometimes turned them in as “parasites;” such workers were then deported, presumably to labor camps.24 Penal camps were established in the Soviet Union for disabled prisoners and disabled veterans of the Russian Civil War and the two World Wars. The most infamous of these is the Spasskaia labor colony near Karaganda, Kazakhstan, to which 15,000 disabled prisoners were sent in the late 1940s and early 1950s (Solzhenitsyn 1985). Similarly, disabled veterans of the Second World War were secretly exiled from Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) and Leningrad oblast’ to the Valaam archipelago, in the Republic of Karelia (Russian Federation). Valaam and the fate of those veterans are still shrouded in mystery (Fefelov 1986:51-57).

  239. @CanSpeccy

    Interesting. I had heard a story about efforts to develop a semiconductor controlled rectifier. I checked—his thesis was on the electronic structure of NaCl. So he did have that background. I stand corrected.

  240. FKA Max says: • Website
    @alan2102

    Thanks, generally good and sound advice.

    You are probably aware of Jørgen Randers:

    We won’t be nine billion: Jørgen Randers at TEDxMaastricht

    I am more than a little bit surprised though, that you are defending the Catholic Church(!!!), even if only ever so very, very mildly. That puts you in the same camp as “Agenda 21” conspiracy theory nut-jobs like “Lord” Christopher Monckton et al. in my book: http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/over-population-another-non-problem/

    You CAN’T have those kinds of associations! Unless you just don’t give a shit

    I accept your opinion, but I strongly disagree, and find it extremely odd, that an obviously highly intelligent person like yourself, would do this and hold an indefensible opinion like this.

    Monckton is a liveryman of the Worshipful Company of Broderers, an Officer of the Order of St John of Jerusalem, a Knight of Honour and Devotion of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, and a member of the Roman Catholic Mass Media Commission.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Monckton,_3rd_Viscount_Monckton_of_Brenchley#Personal_life

    Incidentally, judging from his buggy eyes, he might actually be suffering from Graves’ disease, i.e., a thyroid function imbalance, potentially caused by lead poisoning ( see my comment at #27):

    The classic finding of exophthalmos and lid retraction in Graves’ disease

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graves%27_disease

    Vatican responsibility for the torrent of disinformation on population and related issues. http://www.population-security.org/issue_r.htm

    THE BOGUS “DEMOGRAPHIC TRANSITION” THEORY

    Perhaps the single most important myth used by the Vatican to undermine concern about world population growth has been the demographic transition theory. The Vatican has promoted this myth through numerous institutions and individuals for decades. By 1975 it had largely fallen into disfavor because it was rather obvious that it was not working. However, it continues to be promoted, mostly by politicians, journalists, and foundation and population organization staffers, many of whom are Catholic. The theory is simple: the increase in well-being derived from economic development leads to a decrease in fertility.

    http://www.population-security.org/24-CH16.html#11

    DISINFORMATION CREATES WRONG PERCEPTIONS

    Then, along came Simon with his book, The Ultimate Resource, in 1981.275 Simon attempts to make the case that it is not possible to have overpopulation; that people are the ultimate resource, and the more the better. Simon is an economist. In this book, Simon intermingles fact with fantasy throughout and misrepresents his material as fact. It was one misrepresentation of reality after the other. Simon was ridiculed by the scientific community. I could not believe that Princeton University Press had published this book. How could Simon have possibly placed this book with this publisher? This was a very serious setback for the population growth control movement. Princeton University had put its prestige behind this intellectually dishonest treatment of the issue of population growth.
    [...]
    With propaganda machinery in place, the Vatican set out to create many wrong perceptions, serving to undermine the scientific consensus that world overpopulation is a grave problem for the U.S. These wrong perceptions and illusions, of course, serve as obstacles to a constructive response. Why? The constructive responses almost always include controls on population growth and immigration, threatening Vatican survival.

    http://www.population-security.org/24-CH16.html#8

  241. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    The point is not whether ethnocentrism diminishes as mobility increases but that there a scholarly article saying that ethnocentrism diminishes as mobility increases, thereby making the progressives more comfortable about the genocide of their own people by suppressed reproduction and mass replacement immigration.

    Such soothing academic twaddle discourages those who are are:

    disposed to mistake predicting troubles for causing troubles and even for desiring troubles: “If only,” they love to think, “if only people wouldn’t talk about it, it probably wouldn’t happen.”

    Perhaps this habit goes back to the primitive belief that the word and the thing, the name and the object, are identical.

    At all events, the discussion of future grave but, with effort now, avoidable evils is the most unpopular and at the same time the most necessary occupation for the politician. Those who knowingly shirk it deserve, and not infrequently receive, the curses of those who come after. …

    The peroration to that speech begins with the words:

    As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding; like the Roman, I seem to see “the River Tiber foaming with much blood.”

  242. @CanSpeccy

    Yes I’m saying among humans this connection seems less significant than among non human living beings but it doesn’t mean humans can’t “act as nonhuman living beings”.

  243. @Anonymous White Male

    How can you possibly say there was an increase in life expectancy when maybe 30 to 40 million people died due to famine

    Oh, dear. To find this scale of famine deaths you’d have to go India ruled by its high-IQ British overlords. Nothing of this sort ever happened in the USSR.

    What did happen there during that period (1920s-30s) was an industrial revolution, accompanied by dramatic improvements in literacy, hygiene, communications, availability of medical care, etc. Electric power getting available everywhere (GOELRO), mass-migration of the peasantry (who, according Arthur Koestler, didn’t even have the concept of ‘hours’ and ‘minutes’) to the cities, and so on. You bet it resulted in dramatic increases of the life expectancy…

    • Replies: @Anonymous White Male
  244. @Johan Meyer

    The relevant question is whether IQ results correlate with intelligence as commonly understood. Aside from your definition of creativity, do you dispute such a correlation, and a strong one at that?

    But your understanding could be completely different from mine. I completely agree with CanSpeccy here, and let me suggest more ingredients that I would definitely include into the concept of ‘intelligence’: empathy, decency, honesty, modesty, etc.

    To define as ‘intelligent’ someone who can quickly figure out which number goes next after 1,1,2,3,5? That’s just… stupid.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Santoculto
  245. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Your usage seems to be conflation of morality and intelligence. I see no value in such a conflation. The more useful question is whether intelligence and morality are correlated, and teasing out causal connections. My own intuition on the matter is that loss of intelligence due to lead (but not due to iodine deficiency) will be connected to loss of morality, sharing the cause of lead poisoning, so that someone who suffered mild lead poisoning may be relatively intelligent yet evil, intelligence understood here largely as IQ.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  246. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Oh, God! A true believer! The information is there if you have the courage to research it. You might want to see what the Ukrainians think about the Holodomor. The most common figures associated with this are 7 to 10 million dead. Plus, most historians now recognize Stalin’s complicity in this.

    You know, the USSR was notorious for their closed society and their State run propaganda organs designed to spread disinformation to the world. Hey, the US is too. But, claiming “dramatic” improvements in “literacy, hygiene, communications, yada, yada, yada” is just choosing the lies you wish to believe. You also admit to the FORCED mass-migration of the peasantry, i.e., the Kulaks, which resulted in decreased agricultural output for several years and augmented starvation throughout the Soviet Union. You say look at India for numbers that large and point your finger at the British. Those numbers were pretty consistent for India before the British ever got there. The British actually kept statistics, the Indians just shrugged their shoulders.

    Your continued crutch of leaning on life expectancy as a “gift” of the wise Communists just shows you will not think about this. Like I said, the high numbers of 30 to 40 million starved and killed in the Soviet Union during Stalins reign is debatable. But the approximately 10 million Ukrainians is not, plus the similar famine in Kazakhstan. When you consider the “enemies of the state” that were liquidated by the Soviet government, along with millions who died that were imprisoned in gulags, labor camps, or deported to other areas, we are talking about at least 20 million people that experienced decreased “life expectancy”. Do you understand mathematics at all? Obviously not. With 20 million dying early due to incompetent and evil Soviet policy and 25 million killed in WWII, how can you conceive of a situation where life expectancy increases when possibly 1/4th of the population died young?

  247. I have a proposal for preparation for further IQ research on environmental factors, in particular on lead poisoning and genetic confounds. As the goal is to find both dose response and societal effect, the mathematical tools and experimental method must be up to the task. Taking the data is expensive and funds for such research will become more constrained as the economy continues to struggle. As such, I suggest that data be generated from a priori assumptions, that may be varied to create different data sets, so that the mathematical machinery and experimental methods can be tested. I am referring to Monte Carlo methods, or the use of pseudo random variables to create data sets that arise from prior assumptions about lead poisoning, thus allowing a test of whether experimental methods and the math can tease out the prior assumptions.

    The data may consist of parent and child shared genetic pre-poisoning IQ (Gaussian distributed with assumed genetic standard deviation on the US scale—total standard deviation need not be 15), individual variation (think of monozygotic intra-twin IQ variation), lead poisoning (both continuous and sporadic, for both parent and child, including correlation between parent and child), with an assumed dose response.

  248. @CanSpeccy

    I’m sorry you have a low IQ. I know you want to discount IQ tests because of that. But, by lying and stretching the definition of intelligence to include muscle memory and the will to improve as synonymous with intelligence is just a a desire to call black white.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  249. alan2102 says:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27837574

    Psychiatriki. 2016 Jul-Sep;27(3):204-214.

    There is no safe threshold for lead exposure: Α literature review.

    Vorvolakos T1, Arseniou S1, Samakouri M1.

    Abstract

    [MORE]

    Lead was one of the most dangerous environmental toxic substances for a long time in western countries, and this is still the case for many places on earth today. Its neurotoxic potential is highly significant but its secure blood level concentration remains unknown. The aim of this study was to approach the above issue from the perspective of social psychiatry. A systematic search was made of Dialog and Datastar interfaces for data regarding the neuropsychiatric complications of direct or chronic exposure to lead, and a review of the relevant literature was conducted using the databases Medline, Embase, CAB Global Health and Cochrane. Lead affects the cholinergic, dopaminergic and gloutamergic systems, thus intervening in the normal function of neurotransmion. The consequence of neurotoxicity in the central nervous system includes apoptosis and excitotoxicity. Direct as well as chronic exposure causes serious neurological symptoms and possibly constant cognitive impairment. Acute encephalopathy, the most serious expression of lead poisoning, occurs in blood level concentrations over 100 μg/dL in adults and 80-100 μg/dL in children. Early symptoms of lead neurotoxicity include irritability, headaches and difficulties in concentration in both children and adults. Continuous exposure in children produces neurobehavioral symptoms, such as decreased concentration, inability to follow instructions, difficulty to play games and low IQ, which are associated with concentrations of 10-35 μg/dL. However, some studies claim that cognitive decline and low IQ can occur in concentrations <10 μg/dL. The commonest symptom in adults is peripheral neuropathy with foot drop. Prenatal exposure to lead has been correlated with antisocial behavior and schizophrenia. Long-term lead exposure causing low and medium lead concentration in blood has been linked to depression as well as generalized anxiety disorder and other behavioral disorders. High blood level concentrations correlate with psychotic symptoms like delusions and hallucinations but more rarely with psychotic syndromes. Despite the fact that lead has been banned from gasoline, paint and water pipes, quite significant quantities of lead still exist, particularly in deprived areas of modern cities, in transition zones and city centers, and there are also great concentrations around lead mines and in developing countries, but even for the remaining areas there is no safe threshold.

    CONCLUSIONS:
    Lead was and still is an environmental factor that increases neurologic and psychiatric morbidity. It also causes developmental disorders, especially in deprived areas. Prevention should be the single most important way of dealing with lead poisoning.

    PMID: 27837574

  250. I ran out of time to edit the previous comment. The lead poisoning may be correlated to various degrees (different data sets) with genetic IQ, per comment 132 (social class correlated with IQ hence confound).

  251. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous White Male

    I cannot confirm or deny your repeated insolent assertion that I have a low IQ, since I have no idea what my IQ is and do not care what it is. What I can tell you is that I have achieved most of the things that James Thompson has stated elsewhere (see his Table 1) may be achieved (though with rather low probability in most cases) by people with an IQ of 160.

    Now, since you seem to think that the truth of any proposition must depend solely on the IQ of the person uttering it, why don’t you tell us how many peer-reviewed papers or books you have published, doctorates you have earned, tenured faculty positions you have held or patented products you have developed.

    • Replies: @res
  252. @Anonymous White Male

    In WWII, the deaths may have involved many young, but during famines, the elderly oftend sacrifice themselves for the sake of the young. The political repression killings would largely have affected the older population.

    As to the 1932 famine in the Soviet Union, it extended from Ukraine to Siberia, and from the Caucasus to Arkhangelsk. Ukraine and the northern Caucasus were affected the worst, but other regions also suffered greatly. As to cause, there were several, including disruption due to collectivisation (questions of efficiency of arrangements, lack of experience with new arrangments, resistance to new arrangements by sabotage), plant fungal disease (see Tauger’s more recent studies), and the expenses of industrialisation (the west was willing to buy Soviet wheat, but not Soviet gold—questions of managing the gold standard wrt price).

    Also bear in mind that in Ukraine, it was the east that had been hit hardest, and that region had had a large ethnic Russian population, going back to Catherina the Great’s conquest from the Crimean Khanate (which had depopulated the region by slave raids) as well as arrivals durin the 19th century due to the efforts of a Welsh industrialist (the locals were content to be peasants).

  253. I should also mention that the ethnic Ukrainian population in eastern Ukraine also date from Catherina the Great’s conquest—Ukrainians/Ruthenians, Russians, and other eastern Orthodox people (Greeks, Romanians and Serbs) were used to repopulate the region.

    Also bear in mind that the Ukrainian nationalists who complain about the famine and pretend that it was exclusively targeted against Ukrainians, are largely from Galitsia in the west, which was part of Poland during the famine.

  254. @Anonymous White Male

    The most common figures associated with this are 7 to 10 million dead.

    That’s not the most common number. That’s Ukrainian nationalist victimization narrative. And still it’s nowhere near 30-40 million.

    But, claiming “dramatic” improvements in “literacy, hygiene, communications, yada, yada, yada” is just choosing the lies you wish to believe.

    I don’t think there’s any controversy about what I said, at all. You’re imagining it.

    You also admit to the FORCED mass-migration of the peasantry, i.e., the Kulaks, which resulted in decreased agricultural output for several years and augmented starvation throughout the Soviet Union.

    That’s a very tendentious narrative. What happened there was ‘collectivization’, a switch to collective farming. A land reform. Yes, those who resisted were punished, exiled, some executed. But also they played a significant role in the famine, by slaughtering their farm animals and destroying crops, rather than to agree to ‘collectivize’ them.

    But the approximately 10 million Ukrainians is not

    It’s not debatable, because it’s bs.

    This and your other bizarre calculations of the ‘victims of communism’ don’t change the fact that life expectancy increased dramatically. Ironically, it collapsed immediately after the collapse of the Soviet system and only very recently (in Russia) reached (and now surpassed) the Soviet levels.

    After the October revolution, the life expectancy for all age groups went up. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. This improvement was seen in itself by some as immediate proof that the socialist system was superior to the capitalist system.[8]

    The trend continued into the 1960s, when the life expectancy in the Soviet Union went beyond the life expectancy in the United States.(^citation need) The life expectancy in Soviet Union were fairly stable during most years, although in the 1970s went slightly down probably because of alcohol abuse.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Soviet_Union

  255. alan2102 says:

    fragile, corruptible fetuses:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24704588 — “CONCLUSION: Our study demonstrates that fetal lead exposure as low as 5μg/dl has an adverse effect on neurodevelopment, most expressed during the first trimester and best arrested by measuring maternal BLLs. The collective evidence indicates that screening and intervention after the first trimester may be too late to prevent the fetal neurotoxic effects.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17107860 — “CONCLUSIONS: Fetal lead exposure has an adverse effect on neurodevelopment, with an effect that may be most pronounced during the first trimester and best captured by measuring lead in either maternal plasma or whole blood.”

    cadmium, too:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23220728 — “CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that there is dose-dependent interaction between prenatal exposure to Pb and prenatal exposure to Cd. The results further demonstrate the biological complexities of examining the neurodevelopmental effects of co-exposure to multiple toxicants.”

    and, here’s a surprise:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26417717

    Sci Rep. 2015 Sep 29;5:14466. doi: 10.1038/srep14466.
    Multigenerational epigenetic inheritance in humans: DNA methylation changes associated with maternal exposure to lead can be transmitted to the grandchildren.
    Sen A1,2, Heredia N1, Senut MC1, Land S3,4, Hollocher K5, Lu X1, Dereski MO6, Ruden DM1,3,4.
    Abstract
    We report that the DNA methylation profile of a child’s neonatal whole blood can be significantly influenced by his or her mother’s neonatal blood lead levels (BLL). We recruited 35 mother-infant pairs in Detroit and measured the whole blood lead (Pb) levels and DNA methylation levels at over 450,000 loci from current blood and neonatal blood from both the mother and the child. We found that mothers with high neonatal BLL correlate with altered DNA methylation at 564 loci in their children’s neonatal blood. Our results suggest that Pb exposure during pregnancy affects the DNA methylation status of the fetal germ cells, which leads to altered DNA methylation in grandchildren’s neonatal dried blood spots. This is the first demonstration that an environmental exposure in pregnant mothers can have an epigenetic effect on the DNA methylation pattern in the grandchildren.
    PMID: 26417717
    PMCID: PMC4586440
    DOI: 10.1038/srep14466
    Free PMC Article

  256. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @alan2102

    I forgot about the terrible, terrible institutional psychological abuse inflicted by people like me on white children. I promise hereby to reform myself, after a suitable period of contemplating my crime in contrite silence.

    Good.

  257. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Do you have the slightest idea how the lower orders breed?

    Yes. I have a lot of experience in those kind of environments.

    Even a marginal shift in female reproductive behavior would have a huge effect imo (over time).

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  258. @Johan Meyer

    Your usage seems to be conflation of morality and intelligence.

    Not morality, but the knack for social interactions, for living in harmony with other people. You know, the stereotypical ‘geek’ can hardly be viewed as an intelligent person…

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  259. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Right – the change in behavior would be a woman having a kid with IQ 95 DeShawn rather than IQ 85 DeShavius.

  260. res says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I cannot confirm or deny your repeated insolent assertion that I have a low IQ, since I have no idea what my IQ is and do not care what it is.

    So you have never taken a standardized test that correlates highly with IQ? Seems implausible given your assertion of accomplishments.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  261. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @alan2102

    This existence of group-biased behavior (in-group favoring and out-group hostile) has been well established empirically, and has been shown to be an inevitable outcome in many evolutionary studies. Thus it is puzzling that statistics show violence and out-group conflict declining dramatically over the past few centuries of human civilization. Using evolutionary game-theoretic models, we solve this puzzle by showing for the first time that out-group hostility is dramatically reduced by mobility.

    I think there is truth in both parts of that – how ethnocentrism is perfectly natural adaptation and how widening circles of sympathy create larger groups with less internal conflict (well explored by hbdchick).

    The reasons why it’s not going to work are:

    1) rate of change – too many people over too short a time (the process is being rushed because a large part of the root motivation is anti-white rather than pro-peace)

    2) cousin marriage or other forms of cultural endogamy (religion etc) counter acts the process. for example people from a village move to a city but still marry their cousins from the village

    3) even if (1) and (2) didn’t apply then importing low IQ people into high average IQ countries will be a disaster for separate but obvious reasons

    so as s (1) and (2) do apply this SJW experiment will inevitably end in civil war.

    • Replies: @helena
  262. @Anonymous White Male

    Capitalism or communism are not concerned with the well being of their citizens but with the good health of their slaves. It’s different.

    The fact that standard living increased in Soviet Union don’t mean this country was impeccably benign to their citizens and the same can be said about USA.

    Soviet Union as 100% of communist countries never had, protect and assure individual liberties, free speech one of them. Indeed communists living in capitalistic countries also don’t care about this fundamental values of human well being and we can see via politically correctness. And capitalism usually want “free” speech specially because he want new ideas to improve the efficacy and sophistication of their dehumanized machinery. Capitalism explore human spontaneity while communism is a kind of highly defective long term-thinking system, that planned instead bet in the human creativity. Capitalism is essentially short term because it’s dependent on levels of consumerism.

  263. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @anon

    Even a marginal shift in female reproductive behavior would have a huge effect imo (over time).

    The issue is complex, but if you want a eugenics policy, you need to begin by eliminating the existing dysgenics program. That means slashing welfare spending, particularly in support of unwed mothers and the males that impregnate them.

    Having cut welfare spending you can then cut the huge burden of taxation on the most productive section of the community. I would suggest a $50,000 tax break for every child. This will not affect the poor and the unemployed who pay no income tax, but it would be a big deal for those with incomes several times the US median (ca $29,000). By having babies, a married woman might save a high income husband much of what she could earn on her own. In any case, the saving would amply cover the cost of good quality daycare, if the wife wished to go out to work.

    To make the incentive even more effective, the tax break should be delivered in the form of a cash payment to the wife.

    In addition, there should be an end to the anti-reproductive propaganda in schools, e.g., pro-queer/trans agenda, and instruction in sexual perversion from kindergarten on up. At the same time the stigma attached to illegitimacy should be restored. That won’t prevent young unmarried girls getting pregnant, but it will make them more careful, with the result that they are more likely to be impregnated by the better class of male. Moreover, the father of every illegitimate child should be identified by DNA profiling and compelled to make child support payments.

    • Replies: @anon
  264. @Mao Cheng Ji

    The geek, in addition to being socially inept, also is limited mainly to memory—he can recite statements of fact, but often has a limited capacity for applying the recited facts to an argument and make a plan of action. It is not the social ineptness that makes him unintelligent, though social ineptness may be correlated with lack of intelligence.

  265. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Your example is a very simple exercise of pattern recognition. This can become difficult and yes this correlates with “culturally purified” human capacity to find and follow patterns. That’s the problem. As you can see, this exercise is not based on real context. Psychometrics at the same time is right searching for culturally neutral tests, to compare populations of different cultures, measuring what almost human beings have in common, their capacity to pattern recognition, to find logic and order, this is the deductive reasoning too. But, again, psychometrics committed a great mistake when decided to treat “human capacity to cultural pattern recognition” as less representative of intelligence than neutral-cultural pattern recognition. Whatever the culture, when we live in the world we are constantly interacting with the cultures we was born, via other people and now via new technologies. This also require pattern recognition, find logic, for example, analyzing and criticizing certain ideology before decide to follow it, to become member of this ideological system. We use more neutrally cultural pattern recognition in our jobs even some jobs also require more cultural/non purely technical knowledge. In my opinion it’s not exactly what we can do about neutrally cultural pattern recognition that matter in the end but also how we recognizing patterns correctly in the real/cultural world to find and follow factual statements.

    Find contradictions or logic in a sample of numbers is something. Find contradictions or logic in… Syria situation is other thing, other level of application of intelligence in real situations and not in controlled ones. In this case we are using not only our cognitive but also our psychological side to analyze, criticize and possibly understand partially or totally this subject.

  266. helena says:
    @anon

    Plus it would require everyone to be living at the same pace and level of multiculture as London, everywhere, all the time.

    The melting pot idea goes against what we know about how evolution operates i.e. towards differentiation – it was the finches that gave the game away,

    but no doubt there will be some interesting new ethnicities and no doubt the traces of European features will hold their own alongside those of other races.

  267. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I’d agree all of that would help the process.

  268. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @res

    So you have never taken a standardized test that correlates highly with IQ?

    This kind of personal attack seems to confirm that the typical IQist has a fascistic personality: intent on labeling people so that those with the IQ 80 label can be commanded to advance with bayonets mounted into a wall of lead from the machine guns of the enemy, which the officer class with IQs of 140 plus lounge around in a French Chateau well behind the lines, and the dirty work of organizing the carnage is done by fairly bright but subservient, and not too well educated junior officers with an IQ 120 sticker on their shoulder.

    But yes, I did take some standardized tests or whatever. As the result of one, called the 11-Plus, I was admitted to an English grammar school, but I was not given a score, or IQ rating.

    At a later point, I was sent for three days for testing by an outfit called the Institute for Industrial Phsychologists (Sir Cyril Burt, Prop., allegedly crooked President of the British Psychological Society) . They said I was very good at sorting out colored patterns, an ability of which I am of course tremendously proud, although I cannot actually do Rubik’s cube.

    They also said that if I were to attend university (not an inevitable course back in 1950′s Britain) I should study mathematics, which seemed odd since I had a lousy math teacher at the time who had entirely killed my interest in the subject so that I never did grasp calculus (which, at the school to which I had by then been transferred, we did at the age of 14).

    But in any case Sir Cyril’s report did not assign to me an IQ, which come to think of it, makes sense. I mean, I was good at colored blocks but not so good at some other things, so why average it all out. To do so wouldn’t have made a lot sense would it? Which is why I think IQism is bollocks.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @res
    , @FKA Max
  269. @Johan Meyer

    Social ineptness is mostly psychological but this can be cognitive too. We can have true social ineptness, lower emotional intelligence, and paradoxically, too much emotional intelligence that make us less socially active or socially inapt because we need usually to adapt to the normies because they are majority.

    Geeks tend to have hyper masculine brain, specially via cognitive side, even more than some types of autistics for example aspergers, who appear to be more androgynous in personality than hyper masculine, namely in cognition but also in personality.

  270. res says:
    @CanSpeccy

    That question was hardly an attack. Especially in contrast with this gem:

    typical IQist has a fascistic personality: intent on labeling people so that those with the IQ 80 label can be commanded to advance with bayonets mounted into a wall of lead from the machine guns of the enemy, which the officer class with IQs of 140 plus lounge around in a French Chateau well behind the lines, and the dirty work of organizing the carnage is done by fairly bright but subservient, and not too well educated junior officers with an IQ 120 sticker on their shoulder.

    Project much?

    As for the rest of your comment, I think we can see what is and is not bollocks. It is great fun to watch someone who has clearly benefited from their past test performance to describe how it is meaningless.

    P.S. I particularly enjoy your reflexive labeling of all people who disagree with you as “IQist” and their views as “IQism.” That clearly shows a penetrating intellect (in the full sense, not just IQ, of course) and a fine ability to understand the nuances of arguments and positions, right?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @utu
  271. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @res

    Project much?

    Nah. Read what he said. What I said was just tit-for-tat.

    As for your P.S., what you say is simply untrue. I call IQ-ist only those who insist that IQ and intelligence are synonymous — an obviously ridiculous proposition, for the reason that I explicitly stated, but which you seem to have overlooked.

    As for those who disagree about other things, I deal with their arguments, insofar as I respond at all, on their merits.

    • Replies: @res
  272. @Johan Meyer

    By ‘geek’ I mean something like idiot-savant. Rain Man. Brilliant memory, perfect formal logic, pattern recognition, odds-calculation, all the IQ-related stuff, but no understanding of human nature and cultural/ethical nuances whatsoever. But I see others (Santoculto) already wrote something similar.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  273. @Mao Cheng Ji

    See my comment 102. Geek is usually not savant, in normal usage. So such people exist, but are a small minority. For the majority, IQ is a tolerably good measure of intelligence. Also, regarding Canspeccy’s comment about Shockley’s IQ, I’ve played a bit with online IQ tests, and a certain discipline is needed in timed tests to tackle the easier rather than the more interesting problems—I could get up to a standard deviation of variation with such a strategy. Which brings me back to the question of g at higher IQs.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Santoculto
    , @Mao Cheng Ji
  274. @Johan Meyer

    Geeks tend to be quite SINCERE and DIRECT with other people, no doubt a ”social sin’.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  275. utu says:
    @res

    Sorry, for cutting in but I had to as you have just given birth to a most nonsensical argument:

    “It is great fun to watch someone who has clearly benefited from their past test performance to describe how it is meaningless.”

    Hey res, you really believe that w/o tests the world would not go around? Come on res, you are not that stupid. I guess persistent arguments by CanSpeccy are finally getting under your skin or I should say under the shallow armor that you wear and you lost your cool, right? He make lots of sense. IQ is just a test result. It is not a thing. It has not corporeal existence. And then the question is which test? Or should it be in the morning or in the evening or on a full moon night? Should Flynn effect be subtracted from it or not? All this tossing around of IQ this or IQ that are examples of pure unreflective reifications. CanSpeccy quite successfully cuts through this BS.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @res
  276. FKA Max says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I think you will enjoy this.

    Yesterday, Ann Coulter, whom I believe to be a female genius (she is tall, blue-eyed, etc.) — which does not mean she can’t be wrong or can’t buy into bogus ideas/ideologies — somewhat stepped in it on Twitter.

    These are the characteristics I am looking for: height and low testosterone as indicators/proxies for intelligence; “Nordic” phenotype (light eye pigmentation) as an indicator/proxy for creativity and curiosity.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1823832

    Maybe her testosterone levels were abnormally high that day, ha ha ha…

    She commented on this NY Times article:

    How I Learned to Take the SAT Like a Rich Kid

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/opinion/how-i-learned-to-take-the-sat-like-a-rich-kid.html

    Ann Coulter‏Verified account @AnnCoulter

    If libs weren’t too afraid of science to read @charlesmurray’s Bell Curve, they’d know SAT prep doesn’t do much.

    11:29 AM – 10 Apr 2017

    https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/851502374405365760

    She probably has not done much research into how much test prepping can actually improve SAT, etc. scores.

    Here a selection of comments from her Tweet:

    Only half right. IQ correlates with SAT ACT but not a direct correlation many aspects of the test are learnable so an ok IQ person can excel

    Fact that SAT ACT only partially correlate with IQ indicates they’re not good college/professional suc[c]ess predictors JUST do a plain IQ test

    The SAT is not an IQ test & I wish the[y] used the latter as a college admission mechanism college would be WAY more selective & worth the $

    they used to tell us that back in HS(80s) My score in math improved about 80 pts from PSAT.

    I am a bad test taker. Years ago I took an SAT prep course. My score bumped up significantly from the PSAT.

    You couldn’t be more wrong. I went from the bottom 25% on my LSAT to the top 25%. Difference I read a Barron’s prep book from end to end.

    Doubt it. SAT prep boosted my score by 100 points. I believe the College Board program and Kaplan both guarantee this result

    If educators ditched SAT scores altogether we might have a fairer system. I know Ph.Ds who had a hard time w/ standardized tests.

    This was true of pre-’95 SAT (when it was essentially an IQ ["aptitude"] test); it’s far less correlative with IQ, now (“achievement”).

    My own SAT score went up 330 points (on the 1600-pt scale) with study. The SAT, while correlated with IQ, is not an IQ test.

    East Asian Advantage

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/01/19/study-finds-east-asian-americans-gain-most-sat-courses

    Use of Test-Prep Courses and Gains, by Race and Ethnicity
    Group % Taking Test-Prep Course Post-Course Gain in Points on SAT
    East Asian American 30% 68.8
    Other Asian 15% 23.8
    White 10% 12.3
    Black 16% 14.9
    Hispanic 11% 24.6

    barcelona (1994) – perfect scores

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=japE8DzdhZ0

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/church-going/#comment-1704314

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @CanSpeccy
  277. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Which brings me back to the question of g at higher IQs.

    There is no g. Forget about it.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  278. @Johan Meyer

    Exactly, it’s a good measure, good…

    Excellent*

    Exceptional*

    JUST the perfect reflection of all individual and collective intelligence nuances**

    No.

    IQ still is not excellent measure, and even when, if, psychometricians design the pretentious perfect TEST, still will be a TEST.

    Life is not a TEST, it’s real, complex, confuse, specially because many of this higher IQ, ”invencibly” smarter, who govern us, creates this stupid confusion, because they can’t find the correct sequential patterns, ;) … or because they are plain EVIL.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  279. @FKA Max

    Nordic phenotype

    ;)

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  280. @Santoculto

    That is getting into the autistic spectrum. As I have a relative on the spectrum, I’ll comment. Phenomenal memory, but little self control over expression of internal state nor delayed gratification. Person involuntarily bursts out laughing when someone is injured, as an example—not spite as much as inappropriate response lacking in empathy (functioning mirror neurons? psychopaths have empathy, and use that empathy as feedback to finetune their torment).

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  281. @utu

    Yet there are some relatively consistent social and academic outcomes that correlate with these test outcomes. That is, the tests do provide a measure, however imperfect, of something causal.

  282. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @FKA Max

    If college education depended solely on the intellectual aptitudes that determine IQ or SAT test scores, then IQ or SAT test scores would provide the best indicator of college performance. However, college performance is certainly not solely a matter of aptitude of any kind, measurable or otherwise.

    In most fields, graduating first in your class depends mainly on spending a lot of time over your books. That seems a likely explanation for the finding that high school GPA predicts college performance as well as, or better than, IQ or SAT tests: Those who study hard at school are more likely to do so at university.

    So I don’t think the debate about SATs versus high school GPA as a predictor of academic performance tells us much about the assessment of intelligence, the biggest issue concerning which is perhaps the question of whether intelligence can be comprehensively assessed at all, other than by subjective evaluation of real-life performance.

    For example, can Winston Churchill, who published several times as much as Shakespeare, and won the Nobel Prize for literature, be regarded as highly intelligent when he had difficulty, by his own account, with numbers, and who said, with regard to a blunder while finance minister, “I never could make out what those damned dots meant.”

    And what about Jackson Pollack, whose creation, consisting of paint thrown at a canvas, sold for $165 million. Is he a genius? Certainly, he had the wit to do something extremely profitable that had occurred to no one else to do.

    Aptitude tests, exams, teacher evaluations may all have some validity in assessing an individual’s future performance, but people are too unpredictable for any method to reveal with any certainty how a particular individual will perform in a complex and fast changing world. And of course, university performance has little to do with subsequent achievement. High school and university dropouts become billionaires, academic prodigies go on to mundane careers as minor public servants, hen-pecked husbands and failed entrepreneurs.

    • Replies: @res
  283. @utu

    Make a substantial case against g, then. Provide an explanation why people who struggle at one thing quite often at other unrelated things.

    • Replies: @utu
  284. @Santoculto

    Your leadership is amoral—what of it? Do you regard your leadership as intelligent? My hypothesis, based in part on inadvertent confessions and in part on observation of and interaction with such, is that they are intellectually unremarkable (40th to 60th percentile), who are terminally bored, and pass their time using schedule I substances, with policy formation and golf for variety. They get occasional kicks out of more evil conduct. That is, the character of your leadership is irrelevant to the question of IQ, and can thus shine little light on the matter.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  285. FKA Max says:
    @Santoculto

    I believe her eyes are naturally blue and I don’t think she had her legs surgically lengthened, but I could be wrong ;-)

    A tall order
    It’s painful and slow, but can make you five inches taller. Jonathan Watts on the surgical trend sweeping China – leg-lengthening

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/dec/15/gender.uk

    Kong Jing-wen is one of a growing number of perfectly healthy Chinese young men and women who are willing to break a leg for beauty in order to rise up the ladder in height-conscious China. The complex and time-consuming procedure they are willing to endure was initially developed in Russia for people with stunted growth, mismatched legs or disfigurements. But these days the operation is increasingly used for cosmetic purposes.
    [...]
    Doctors have been able to pioneer new forms of this surgery because height is so socially important in China that it is often the first thing strangers will talk about. It is also listed among the criteria required on job advertisements. To get a post in the foreign ministry, for instance, male applicants need not bother applying unless they are at least 5ft 7in, while women must be at least 5ft 3in. Chinese diplomats are expected to be tall to match the height of their foreign counterparts.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  286. @Johan Meyer

    What i already read psychopaths [human predators] have very well developed cognitive empathy BUT not affective empative.

    He is asperger, high functioning or lower functioning*

  287. @FKA Max

    Yes, but her original face don’t appeared to be halstatt nordic, ;)

    I think a lot of historically recognized geniuses no had ”nordic phenotype” nor ” a predominance of neotenic features”.

    And i don’t think blue eyes is causal to increase intelligence per si, but correlates.

    Blue eyes is a exotic and beautiful feature. ”Indo-european” elites have selected this trait because their beauty, and as they are elites [usually, smarter, than other macro-social classes, specially in that pre-historic times], this correlation among: blue or light eyes, higher social class and higher intelligence has been connected. In general, elites throughout the world are more fair in skin than ”working classes”, again, probably because they have selected this traits, because their aesthetic value, but i doubt fair skin cause organically higher intelligence and the otherwise to the dark skin, because we have volumous ”exceptions” to this supposed rule in both sides.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  288. @Johan Meyer

    Your leadership is amoral—what of it? Do you regard your leadership as intelligent?

    Most of them are not, but the big ones, generally are ”smarter”, at least in IQ.

    Many european leaders have higher IQ. Most brazilian presidents have and…

    My hypothesis, based in part on inadvertent confessions and in part on observation of and interaction with such, is that they are intellectually unremarkable (40th to 60th percentile), who are terminally bored, and pass their time using schedule I substances, with policy formation and golf for variety.

    You are talking about the above avg politicians, seems.

    That is, the character of your leadership is irrelevant to the question of IQ, and can thus shine little light on the matter.

    I don’t understand this part.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  289. res says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Nah. Read what he said. What I said was just tit-for-tat.

    Except you replied to me (with a quote so I know it was not a mistake). Not sure why you are being disingenuous, but if the shoe fits…

    I call IQ-ist only those who insist that IQ and intelligence are synonymous — an obviously ridiculous proposition,

    I challenge you to provide just one comment in this thread that has done that. Clearly a strawman.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  290. @Santoculto

    Insofar as IQ is Gaussian, 50th percentile aka median is equal to the mean or average.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  291. res says:
    @utu

    Hey res, you really believe that w/o tests the world would not go around? Come on res, you are not that stupid.

    Of course not. But there is a long way between meaningless and world would not go round. Presumably the truth lies somewhere in that range. Do you disagree? Also, do you disagree that based on his account CanSpeccy has benefited from the standardized tests used?

    I should say under the shallow armor that you wear and you lost your cool, right?

    Not sure where you think I lost my cool. Please point to the comment specifically. It’s pretty funny for you to call my mild comment “lost your cool” given some of the exchanges we have had which warrant that label much more.

    CanSpeccy quite successfully cuts through this BS.

    LOL.

    • Replies: @utu
  292. res says:
    @CanSpeccy

    High school and university dropouts become billionaires,

    You mean like Bill Gates with his 1590 (pre-1995 recentering) SAT score? You might try arguments that make your case instead of the opposition’s.

  293. FKA Max says:
    @Santoculto

    halstatt nordic

    Hanseatic Nordics are probably on average smarter and taller than Hallstatt Nordics, because they have easier access to the ocean, i.e., saltwater fish are higher in iodine content generally, with some exceptions; and Hanseatic Nordics’ diet generally is probably higher in seafood due to them, as I said, living close(r) to the sea.

    The several sources that I consulted also provided varying answers to your question, but the reason for the disparity in iodine figures becomes clear when explained by Doris Hicks, a seafood technology specialist with the College of Marine Studies at the University of Delaware. Says Hicks, “The iodine content (of seafood) varies from species to species and within species depending on season when harvested as well as biological differences such as the animal`s size, age, sex, degree of sexual maturity and diet.“

    Saltwater fish and shellfish contain considerably more iodine than do freshwater species, and saltwater shellfish are the most iodine-rich of all seafood.

    Giving a very rough estimate, or average, saltwater fish has 330 micrograms of iodine per 100 grams of body weight, whereas freshwater fish has 66 mcg/g. Two other foods are higher in iodine content than saltwater fish — dried kelp, with 62,400 mcg/g; and iodized salt, with 7,600 mcg/g.

    In a list provided by Hicks, one shellfish stood out as having a significantly higher iodine content than the rest: softshell clams.

    http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1987-08-20/features/8703080258_1_iodine-fish-and-shellfish-grapefruit

    The results of the collected samples showed that the iodine concentration in fillet of salt water fish was 5 to 10 times higher than those of fresh water fish, with highest value of 920 microgram I/kg wet weight for change. The lowest iodine concentration in fillet was found in barbus from Lake Awasa with only 5-8 microgram I/kg wet weight. The iodine concentration in skin was higher than in fillets and the iodine concentration in fillets seemed to increase with fish size.

    – Iodine content in fish and other food products from East Africa analyzed by ICP-MS [1997] Eckhoff et al. http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=US1997077124

    But I don’t know if you read my comment properly and followed the link I provided?, because I never claimed that there was an association between blue/light eyes and intelligence. I believe there is an association between blue/light eyes and creativity and curiosity.
    It is scientifically proven though, that there is a correlation between height and intelligence, and also low(er) testosterone and intelligence (and/or accomplishment):

    These are the characteristics I am looking for: height and low testosterone as indicators/proxies for intelligence; “Nordic” phenotype (light eye pigmentation) as an indicator/proxy for creativity and curiosity.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1823832

  294. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    I call IQ-ist only those who insist that IQ and intelligence are synonymous — an obviously ridiculous proposition,

    I challenge you to provide just one comment in this thread that has done that. Clearly a strawman.

    Well that’s great. We agree on something that I think is important. IQ tests measure competence in certain types of mental operation, but they do not provide a comprehensive measure of what most people would understand to constitute intelligence, which includes such things as artistic, scientific and mathematical creativity, musicality, and perhaps even, so-called emotional intelligence, and physical coordination as exemplified by the surgeon or athlete.

    • Replies: @res
  295. @res

    Your intellectual dishonesty is impressive…

    Why not just admit that you guys really believe in IQ = intelligence and start to foment arguments to defend it instead this game of cat and rat??

    In most psychological papers today we already can find easily IQ = intelligence…

    IQ is no more a proxy for intelligence but intelligence itself…

    All the time the texts of sir Thompson here just prove our common points, with CanSpeccy.

    It’s not straw man it’s just the reality you are by no detectable rational reason trying to hide.

    Comment in this thread…

    Maybe in other threads…

    Kidding is not?

    Well we already have for example Anonymous White Male here who accuse CanSpeccy to have biased personal motivation (lower IQ) to be against over emphasis on IQ tests.

    Anonymous White Male even we agree with a lot of things is a good example of IQism popularization.

    • Replies: @res
  296. @Johan Meyer

    Wait
    You’re suggesting or saying politicians specially the most important, presidents, for example, are not smarter?

    Smarter can’t be evil??

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  297. res says:
    @Santoculto

    Your intellectual dishonesty is impressive…

    If you are going to throw around accusations like that you should at least offer some proof.

    Why not just admit that you guys really believe in IQ = intelligence and start to foment arguments to defend it instead this game of cat and rat??

    Perhaps because it’s not true? Why not admit you all are mostly arguing against strawmen here. That is much more intellectually dishonest than anything I have written.

    In most psychological papers today we already can find easily IQ = intelligence…

    Citation please. If this is really in “most” psychological papers it should be easy to find many.

    It’s not straw man it’s just the reality you are by no detectable rational reason trying to hide.

    More accusations without any attempt at proof.

    Maybe in other threads…

    Show me.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  298. res says:
    @CanSpeccy

    insist that IQ and intelligence are synonymous

    A strawman motte. (and yes we do agree this is not true, some people call statements like this “trivial truths”, I think that is a good description)

    but they do not provide a comprehensive measure of what most people would understand to constitute intelligence, which includes such things as artistic, scientific and mathematical creativity, musicality, and perhaps even, so-called emotional intelligence, and physical coordination as exemplified by the surgeon or athlete.

    Much more complex bailey. Please get back to me when you have decent measurements of those and can link them to outcomes. Be sure to measure g at the same time so you can check how much explanatory power they provide beyond what g gives.

    The link you so kindly gave us to this earlier article from Dr. Thompson: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-comparative-advantage-of-eminence/
    gives an example of this for IQ/g. Do you have anything comparable for your proposed constituents of intelligence?

    P.S. Still waiting for your reference to a comment justifying your use of “IQ-ist” earlier.

    • Replies: @utu
  299. @Santoculto

    Smart at what? Surely if you believe them to be smart, you should be able to point at some accomplishments that they have made. As to evil and intelligent, see my comment 255.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  300. utu says:
    @res

    Also, do you disagree that based on his account CanSpeccy has benefited from the standardized tests used?

    No, we do not know it. Perhaps the decision based on the test results were not beneficial to him. CanSpeccy does not know it either. Furthermore if he lived in society w/o any testing perhaps the outcome would be entirely different and possibly much better for him. Bu we won’t know it. That’s why I assumed you lost your cool because your statement about that CanSpeccy benefited from testing was so illogical to me. But now I can see that for you who lost all distance to the concept of IQ and its role it is very logical. So I am sorry. You kept your cool but remained nonsensical which is typical to IQers. Somehow I hoped you transcended this narrow-mindedness. Unfortunately I was wrong.

    • Replies: @res
  301. utu says:
    @res

    “Please get back to me when you have decent measurements of those and can link them to outcomes.

    These:”artistic, scientific and mathematical creativity, musicality, and perhaps even, so-called emotional intelligence, and physical coordination as exemplified by the surgeon or athlete.” are the outcomes. And you would like to reduce them just to one number served from how a person solves puzzles? IQers are adherents to One Dimensional Theory of Everything. They can explain life with just one number. Pretty ambitious folks. Super reductionist who haven’t noticed that they are reducing themselves ad absurdum. Very sad, as Trump would have said.

    Be sure to measure g at the same time so you can check how much explanatory power they provide beyond what g gives.

    Practically nobody’s measure g directly. I thought we have been through this issue already.

    • Replies: @res
  302. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Make a substantial case against g, then

    I will not do whole explanation here but just give you one hint. I presume you have read “Education, Wechsler’s Full Scale IQ, and g” that you cited here and alluded to on two occasions.

    (page 449 in abstract) The scientific construct of general intelligence ( g) rests on the correlations among test scores, while IQ rests on the summation of standardized scores.

    (page 450) While the scientific construct of general intelligence ( g) rests on the correlations among test scores, IQ rests on the summation of standardized scores. The simple sum of various test scores cannot be considered a proper measure of general intelligence ( g), but a measure of ‘‘intelligence in general’’ (IQ). It must be remembered that intelligence in general means g plus specific cognitive abilities and skills. IQ is a mixture of those abilities and skills:
    g + specific cognitive abilites + specific cognitive skills

    (page 454) An individual’s g factor score is calculated as a g-weighted mean of the individual’s standardized scores on each of the subtests.

    Conclusion: IQ and g as constructed by particular method are both linear combinations (weighted sums) of standardized scores on each of the subtest. These liner combinations have different coefficients but conceptually g and IQ are not different. Furthermore depending on method used one can construct different g’s.

    What is the a fatal flaw of the methodology in this paper apart of the mambo jumbo meaninglessness of g itself? That for each group of academic attainment different g is constructed, i.e, the coefficients in the linear combinations are different. From this they get the results of different loadings among low IQ and how IQ groups. However the g for low IQ and g for high IQ groups are two different animals. So how can you make statement that you keep repeating: “The present study found that the higher the educational level, the lower the loadings at the g factor derived from the WAIS-III subtests (page 456).”

  303. @Johan Meyer

    See my comment 102. Geek is usually not savant, in normal usage. So such people exist, but are a small minority.

    Extreme cases (including, arguably, Einstein, Newton, Turing) are a small minority, but I think these cases (plus the anecdotal evidence) might very well be pointing to a real pattern, indicating that the level of ‘human nature’ intelligence correlates negatively with the level of scholastic intelligence.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  304. res says:
    @utu

    You might want to work on your reading comprehension. From comment 278: “But yes, I did take some standardized tests or whatever. As the result of one, called the 11-Plus, I was admitted to an English grammar school,”

    In case you are unfamiliar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_school

    As far as the rest of your comments (e.g. “I can see that for you who lost all distance”), LOL. If you are going to be dismissive you really have to offer better arguments.

    P.S. That is what it looks like to provide a specific reference to a comment. Still waiting for an example of anyone arguing for the strawman arguments.

  305. res says:
    @utu

    These:”artistic, scientific and mathematical creativity, musicality, and perhaps even, so-called emotional intelligence, and physical coordination as exemplified by the surgeon or athlete.” are the outcomes.

    That quote refers to multiple things. The former: “”artistic, scientific and mathematical creativity, musicality, and perhaps even, so-called emotional intelligence, and physical coordination” are attributes. The latter: “surgeon or athlete” are outcomes. I am asking for measurements of those attributes linked to those (or other) outcomes.

    And you would like to reduce them just to one number served from how a person solves puzzles?

    Actually I would like the opposite, as I requested. Please supply me those other numbers so I can evaluate them. I’ve already agreed intelligence can’t just be reduced to one number. The thing is, the research (e.g. SMPY/TIP referenced above) shows that IQ has significant explanatory power for future outcomes. All of those others you talk about, not so much (but please, do supply some counterexamples to prove me wrong). Do you agree that the IQ research demonstrates it has useful ability to predict future outcomes? That’s all I am asking for for the other proposed intelligences.

    That you so persistently misunderstand plain words makes me doubt that you are arguing in good faith.

    IQers are adherents to One Dimensional Theory of Everything. They can explain life with just one number.

    Gotta love the strawman.

    Practically nobody’s measure g directly.

    That is so profound. /sarc
    Please give me an example of a psychological quantity (say one of those numbers you are advocating for) that is measured directly then. It fascinates me that you want to dismiss g based on an “argument” like that while being unwilling (or unable?) to provide any measurements for other metrics.

  306. @res

    Trying to extract honesty from dishonest people is just try to extract a confession from the clever criminal.

    Quite complicated.

    So answer this questions

    It’s possible a person who score ~ 140 be very stupid in some knowledge even in most known knowledge?? It’s possible a person who score above average be smarter than a person who score ~ 120 or higher?

    Emotional skills is part of intelligence or it’s just a good arrangement of psychological traits?

    Multiple theory intelligence’s is completely wrong for you? Why? There is or not cognitive diversity?

    What is rationality for you?

    A illiterate quizz I created now ;)
    I hope you enjoy!

    Obs.: The simple and evident fact that sir Thompson all the time write about IQ as synonymous of intelligence already prove my point, period.

    I don’t need search for evidences if I’m in one of the epicenter of IQsm, HBD.

    I don’t need and I don’t want search for volumous psychological papers that all the time treat IQ no more as proxy but as synonymous of intelligence.

    • Replies: @res
  307. @Johan Meyer

    Angela Merkel is a very good example, she have great scholastic credentials and… she is this s%$#

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Johan Meyer
  308. One of the most important in terms of intelligence is to understand the reality where you are, firstly, knowing yourself [intrapersonal], second, knowing their pairs of interactions [interpersonal], third, knowing your environment [nature and culture].

    Factual understanding is much more important than IQ, in my opinion, because it’s based on the proportion or ratio and quality of informations your brain is internalizing not only to the knowledge itself, but also for your own survive probabilities.

    What is the ratio or proportion of facts you already have internalized,

    what is the quality of your factual understanding,

    what is your capacity to the intellectual self-actualization/strongly correlated with intellectual humility.

    Whatever your IQ scores if you have internalized a lot of factoids so you have created for yourself and probably for personally related people a wrong map of reality and if you use it in dangerous situations there is a great chance for you commit fatal mistakes.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  309. res says:
    @Santoculto

    Trying to extract honesty from dishonest people is just try to extract a confession from the clever criminal.

    Indeed. I think that is well demonstrated by this thread. (still looking for references to the dishonest things I have said though)

    It’s possible a person who score ~ 140 be very stupid in some knowledge even in most known knowledge?? It’s possible a person who score above average be smarter than a person who score ~ 120 or higher?

    Intelligence and knowledge are separate. Though I think there does tend to be a correlation of intelligence with total knowledge, any individuals can have far different sets of knowledge. For example, there are plenty of IQ ~85 people who know far more P0rtuguese than me. A simple rule to distinguish them: knowledge is much easier to teach than intelligence is.

    “smarter” is difficult to quantify (when being more nuanced than just conflating it with IQ) and tends to be a bit funny in definition (e.g. is it intelligence or knowledge based?). It also depends on environment. An 85 IQ aboriginal will be much smarter about operating in his environment than I would be. A high IQ person is very capable of being stupid when starting from incorrect premises (e.g. see all the race is not biological commentary lampooned in iSteve).

    Emotional skills is part of intelligence or it’s just a good arrangement of psychological traits?

    I think emotional skills are a good arrangement of psychological traits that can be very helpful for gathering evidence and persuading people. These are helpful for (a part of) a broad definition of intelligence, but not really a part of IQ IMHO. They would be much more useful if they were measurable (and relatable to outcomes).

    For an analogy, running and jumping skills are distinct (but probably correlated), but both are related to athletic ability. You might notice that both of these are easy to measure (and relate to outcomes) and sports evaluations routinely include them (e.g. the NFL combine).

    Multiple theory intelligence’s is completely wrong for you? Why? There is or not cognitive diversity?

    Not wrong. Just vastly overhyped and underevidenced. As I have said multiple times above, please supply examples of measuring those and relating them to outcomes.

    What is rationality for you?

    The ability to correctly reason from evidence to conclusions. This generally requires both a knowledge base and the intelligence/training to use it effectively. This includes things like recognizing logical fallacies such as the strawman argument. It also includes things like the ability to evaluate the evidence (e.g. the SMPY/TIP studies linked above).

    Obs.: The simple and evident fact that sir Thompson all the time write about IQ as synonymous of intelligence already prove my point, period.

    A quote of him saying that without qualification, please. Do you guys really think if you repeat your strawman often enough it will magically become true?

    I don’t need search for evidences if I’m in one of the epicenter of IQsm, HBD.

    I don’t need and I don’t want search for volumous psychological papers that all the time treat IQ no more as proxy but as synonymous of intelligence.

    To paraphrase, “I have my opinions and don’t need to be confused by facts.”

    P.S. Quizzes like that are more fun if you play too. I gave answers. Please do the same.

  310. @Santoculto

    Ha, this reminds me of an article I read recently:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/04/the-illusion-of-reality/479559/

    So, yeah, “factual understanding” is understanding of ‘facts’ as human beings around you perceive them…

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Santoculto
  311. @utu

    As factor analysis is part of the same beast as principal component analysis, and as I last used that math more than a decade ago, I had to do some brushing up. Apologies for the delay.

    I understand g to be the first principal component. The basic observation leading to g theory of intelligence is that the off–diagonal components of the covariance matrix are almost always positive, hence the first principle component is positively correlated with each component of the original categories on which PCA is performed.

    The principal components are the matrix products of the (row) eigenvectors of the covariance matrix left-multiplied with the original data after subtraction of dataset means of the original components, which is, as you put it correctly, linear combinations of the original data.

    For the g of the low IQ set to be a different beast than the g of the high IQ set, the eigenvector corresponding to the first principal component must be different for the low set than for the high set; assume unit eigenvectors. In practice with real data, they will be different in general, but that raises the question of magnitude of difference. This difference can be expressed as the dot (inner) product of the (unit) eigenvectors corresponding to the respective first principal components. Unfortunately, the paper didn’t report that quantity iirc, but that would be a route to potentially falsifying g—if the dot product is less than say 0.95 (angle greater than 18 degrees in the shared plane), either the cause is very non-linear, or g is false.

    • Replies: @utu
  312. @Mao Cheng Ji

    No. It’s just factual understanding, what it is. I don’t need other humans around me to recognize a tree.

    The own language is a fact, a literally manufactured fact/ made by humans and not a “commodity or natural fact”.

    So language that is part of our reality is a illusion??

  313. @Mao Cheng Ji

    The individuals that you listed, while brilliant, simply made great achievements by investigating that which was assumed to be settled, and carrying on hunches, using apparently grotesque assumptions. That character aspect is probably important for research, but it is hard to get a degree with such an attitude. I speak from experience—rock the boat in undergrad, and your marks may suffer, but you may well get invited to do an advanced degree, as I was, during my undergrad.

  314. @Santoculto

    There is a Russian website called Politrash. Then again, sometimes rotten as the current crop are, worse is waiting in the wings, and false information is sometimes spread about current politicians so as to promote those who would take their place. Case in point being the lie that Mbeki supposedly denied the HIV connection to AIDS, so we got Zuma.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  315. @Mao Cheng Ji

    This is the subjetivity of factual understanding, typical from…..

    left

    unfortunately a lot of brightly smart people buying insipid ideas and thoughts..

    We are not super-perceivers, but we have very well-balanced developed senses, we have better holistic sense of reality than for example a living being with fantastic vision, even we can agree that have a holistic sensorial skills, vision included is already a fantastic features.

    For example, at night we have a moon in the size of our hand palms. This is a distortion of our perceptions because the moon no have this size** No, in the true, it’s not a distortion per si, because it’s the real perceived size of moon based on distance we are from her.

    It’s just the illusion of the left…

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  316. @res

    Indeed. I think that is well demonstrated by this thread. (still looking for references to the dishonest things I have said though)

    It’s in the air, underlying, as well some so-called ”conspiracy theory”.

    I already told you about Thompson’s posts. Hbd demonstrates via osmosis what IQism is.

    Intelligence and knowledge are separate. Though I think there does tend to be a correlation of intelligence with total knowledge, any individuals can have far different sets of knowledge. For example, there are plenty of IQ ~85 people who know far more P0rtuguese than me. A simple rule to distinguish them: knowledge is much easier to teach than intelligence is.

    Knowledge is the clothes of intelligence, period. It’s separate as well siamese brothers are separated and united at the same time.

    When you are teaching knowledge you are teaching intelligence. How teach intelligence, separated from knowledge**

    I think it’s doesn’t exist. Knowledge is what we go accumulating throughout our lives. Knowledge is the direct product of intelligence, what intelligence serve.

  317. @res

    “smarter” is difficult to quantify (when being more nuanced than just conflating it with IQ) and tends to be a bit funny in definition (e.g. is it intelligence or knowledge based?). It also depends on environment. An 85 IQ aboriginal will be much smarter about operating in his environment than I would be. A high IQ person is very capable of being stupid when starting from incorrect premises (e.g. see all the race is not biological commentary lampooned in iSteve).

    I’m not talking about that, You know very well that you can learn equal or better than a aboriginal about their environment even or specially if you are created among them because your genotypical intelligence is larger than them. Even, you could be considered their leader because it’s likely you would be capable to improve the survive strategies of the tribe. They are or has been specialized in some very specific tasks and their cognitive style just reflect it. But it’s doesn’t mean a ”man of the civilization” cannot learn to live in this environment, specially if he is created since its childhood.

    I’m talking about people in the same environment but with different ”IQ’s”. Remember even a single IQ score, often don’t reflect or synthetize better the entire individual landscape because we can be very smarter in specific facets and not in others.

    In other words, seems, many psychometricians, if i’m being unfair, simply despise the probabilities of better understanding own IQ offer. For example, giving more enphasis on the scores on SUB-tests instead over-enphasize in general scores.

    It’s not just that a ”higher IQ person” [for you synonimous of ”smarter people”, ;) ) can be dumb…

    IQists create a atmosphere of intelectual invencibility of so-called higher IQ’s, as if they are totally, absolutelly smarter and their IQ’s just reflects this supremacy. It’s what seems most IQists believe. So when a higher IQ/smarter, ;), person commit mistakes, read: obvious, IQists ”rationalize” them, the very popular excuse: s/he no have common sense.

    Even a ”higher IQ” celebrity, usually, is not invencibly smarter, i mean, smarter about everything or capable to understand and to improve everything, it’s what, again, most of IQists believe, unfortunately.

  318. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Your well informed comment is mostly above my head. But it raises the possibility in my mind that an individual’s neuro-physiological characteristics may, collectively, have an effect, positive or negative, across all cognitive domains.

    I am thinking of things like brain glucose metabolism; speed of nervous conduction, which must vary at least slightly among individuals; the threshold action potential necessary for impulse transmission across the synapse; the rates and amounts of neurotransmitter released during impulse transmission across the synapse; and the rates of neurotransmitter breakdown or re-uptake; etc. These variables considered together will, presumably, have a general effect on cognitive performance. Such a factor, large or small, may therefore be considered a general physiological intelligence factor, or p, that might be measurable as a correlation among an individual’s various cognitive capacities.

    It is, however, a fact well supported by observation that individuals often display large differences in ability among cognitive domains. Hence there is, or was, both a SAT math and a SAT verbal test, the results of the two, in some cases at least, correlating poorly. But by definition, such differences cannot be attributed to p. Equally, therefore, it is unlikely that large differences in capacity among individuals in a particular cognitive domain are chiefly attributable to differences in p. It is true, however, that at the extremes, i.e., in pathological cases, p must be important.

    What underlies differences among cognitive domains in an individual’s aptitude (i.e., relative to the population mean) is open to question. However, the brain has a modular structure that reflects differentiation in function. Thus it seems reasonable to suppose that differences in an individual’s ability among cognitive domains reflect, at least in part, the size or architecture of the various brain modules.

    In addition, variation among cognitive domains in an individual’s aptitude, can be attributed in part to environmental and motivational factors resulting in differential development of innate abilities. This, the proponents of g may say, indicates that lack of perfect correlation among an individual’s cognitive capacities is no disproof of the reality of g. However, that argument doesn’t hold water, since the only evidence the g-mongers have of the existence of g is the correlation among an individual’s cognitive capacities. In other words, they are apparently forced into the position of saying, correlation among an individual’s cognitive capacities is proof of g, non-correlation among an individual’s cognitive capacities is not disproof of g. This is not a high-g argument.

    Beside structurally-determined differentiation among an individual’s cognitive capacities, there is also the possibility of differentiation due to the reassignment of neurological resources. This is something that seems rarely if ever discussed in relation to the question of intelligence, yet it is a well-established phenomenon. For example, if you wear a blindfold for a week, your visual cortex will start processing auditory inputs. It is this phenomenon of neurological reassignment to which I suggest can be attributed the non-IQ determined emergence of genius. If, like Einstein, you spend years during youth, trying to envisage the experience of travelling on a beam of light, you may eventually develop an understanding about light, space and motion that surpasses that of perhaps every other inhabitant of planet Earth, even though you might have a quite ordinary IQ, maybe no higher than Richard Feyneman’s 124.

    Such neurological reassignment as I am suggesting may underlie at least certain instances of genius, will generally be driven by an obsessive personality, and it is here that p, an abnormality in the GABAergic transduction pathway, perhaps, may play a key role in determining what is generally understood to be intelligence.

    • Replies: @utu
  319. @res

    I think emotional skills are a good arrangement of psychological traits that can be very helpful for gathering evidence and persuading people.

    It’s just a semantic manipulation to say ”there is a emotional ‘intelligence’ ”. Pattern recognition there my son!! Reasoning there, memory there. What or how we use our psychological traits, how cognition use psychology, period.

    And emotional skills is not just to manipulate people.

    These are helpful for (a part of) a broad definition of intelligence, but not really a part of IQ IMHO. They would be much more useful if they were measurable (and relatable to outcomes).

    That’s your problem, you must need or require a measurement to recognize and work with evident existence. I think intelligence definition and its facets is already quite helpful but, i agree that it’s too much abstract. Therefore i prefer to understand intelligence as a system, just like human body/organism, with many sub-systems within it. Of course, emotional skill can be more understandable with measurements and quantitative comparisons, we tend to do intuitively, but if we don’t bear in mind that it’s not enough or we can also take into account the descriptive and critical analysis to better understand it,so the same problems of IQism we have about verbal, spatial and mathematical skills, we will have about emotional skills.

    For an analogy, running and jumping skills are distinct (but probably correlated), but both are related to athletic ability. You might notice that both of these are easy to measure (and relate to outcomes) and sports evaluations routinely include them (e.g. the NFL combine).

    I don’t think athletic skills is just correlated but integral part of intelligence, but it’s too primary or primitive and humans have evolved to atrophy them ”to” increase brainly skills.

    Yes, i know it’s more easy to give evaluations.

    Not wrong. Just vastly overhyped and underevidenced. As I have said multiple times above, please supply examples of measuring those and relating them to outcomes.

    Again, because we still no have works that find correlations of non-iq measured abilities or dimensions with ”outcomes” it’s doesn’t mean that they are not important. Indeed, intrapersonal ability is one of the most underrated of all.

  320. @utu

    I was not clear though. The loading, as I understand it, is the amount of variance in the original data, that appears in the first principal component, rather than the weightings of the different subtests in producing the first principal component—those weightings are the components (in terms of original subtests) of the eigenvector corresponding to the first principal component.

  321. @Santoculto

    This is the subjetivity of factual understanding

    Subjectivity, as opposed to what objectivity? Human perception is, well, human. Human, not ‘objective’. They, for example, feel empathy for others in pain. Any abstract, stripped of human context “factual understanding” actually distorts understanding of the phenomenon. Negates intelligence.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  322. @res

    The ability to correctly reason from evidence to conclusions. This generally requires both a knowledge base and the intelligence/training to use it effectively. This includes things like recognizing logical fallacies such as the strawman argument. It also includes things like the ability to evaluate the evidence (e.g. the SMPY/TIP studies linked above).

    Even i don’t disagree totally with your definition i think rationality is not just ”from evidence to conclusions”. You’re conflating scientific method with rational thinking mode. Rational thinking, even you no have solid evidences, and depending the type of knowledge, whatever it /evidence may be, can be realized.

    Rationality, in my rambo opinion, is the capacity to weight perspectives or sides, to really analyse [what vast people don't] instead to conclude via instinctive preconceptions, in precipited ways. In other words, it’s to compare if your instinct is right, cosi cosi or wrong. Rationality is strongly correlated with self-consciousness, the reflection of being, their mirroring, self-analysing, as well their thoughts and actions. Rationality elate with cognitive and with affective/behavioral.

    Scientific method is derived from rational thinking style but to be always dependent from scientifically-proved evidence don’t seems… rational.

    A quote of him saying that without qualification, please. Do you guys really think if you repeat your strawman often enough it will magically become true?

    HBD teach IQism via osmosis… only you here who are denying this self-evidence. Dishonesty or self-deception.

    It’s not a distorted opinion i have about your point of views. I know you agree with me about many things but you still deny things that seems very evident to be denied by now, for example, that HBD is the epicenter of IQism, near to the MENSA and other ”intelligent communities” if not a extension of them.

    The begining of modern psychometrics in the early XX already have wrong statements just like ”intelligence IS NOT emotional/psychological, just cognitive”, and most of its literature just reflect it.

    To paraphrase, “I have my opinions and don’t need to be confused by facts.”

    You deny that HBD use IQistic fallacy to ”rationalize” jewish domination of western societies, as if only by meritocratic/fair ways they are in the power, proportionally more than any other group. Ok, we have a diversity of ”point of views”, but seems more than a half of HBD-bloggers really believe that only direct meritocracy explain jewish dominance.

    Show me evidences, if you must need evidences of evident realities, where HBD is not IQistic.

    I think you will have a hard work to counterargue against it.

    I don’t think you know but you’re answering via indirect or languid ways, please, i don’t want your dishonesty.

    Tell me, explain me why you don’t think that the Terman intellectual descendents here don’t believe or applied IQism…

    The problem about IQ is that at the same time, he ”explain” or correlates well with many things, but still there is a lot of details and nuances that, make all differences. And to this tasks we need more nuanced minds, cognitive diversity, ;)

    And again, IQ seems has been under-used or under-appreciated by own psychometricians, specially about their sub-tests, and i will not say de novo about psychological aspects.

  323. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Human is not exactly human, in the end humans are the continuity of all other living beings but directed to the certain path. Humans are living beings with greatly balanced holistic perceptual and or sensorial skills. Human is a arrangement of traits that is in very different combinations and intensities or developments/decanted mutations in all other living beings. Because relatively less instinct we can become interested in things that are not immediately important for us, for our immediate survive. more holisticity…

    If facts is nothing for you so why you’re always trying to impose or sell your own facts [or ''facts''] for us***

    If what you perceive is a illusion, why you try to convince other people the otherwise*

    This supposed ”illusion of reality” is already a … fact… or treated like that for you.

    Contradictions baby!

    Merry Christmas is not a factual man, or a factual event that happen every year in the december month. The denial of Merry Christmas is itself a fact, a fact about what it’s not.

    Because partial psychosis has been selected among humans don’t mean reality is a illusion or ALL human beings are unable to create a good map of it, not complete because would be a Odyssey, but good enough to know a lot of things.

    Know about things is the same than reflect them.

    • Replies: @Mao Cheng Ji
  324. @Santoculto

    Look, what I’m saying is that scholastic logic – even with the knowledge of ‘facts’ – does not amount to intelligence. I’ve meet village people who probably would not be able to configure email on their mobile phone if their life depended on it, and yet they demonstrated (most of the time) remarkable wisdom in ordinary day-to-day affairs, interpersonal communications. And vice versa: talented mathematicians (for example), extremely obtuse in the day-to-day life. That’s all I’m saying, really.

  325. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Yes but this don’t mean our perceptions is ilusion, period.

  326. @Santoculto

    I was flippant. As to Merkel, as I have not studied her thesis, I cannot comment on her intelligence. It is striking though that she decided on politics—was her background not physics?

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  327. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Because people are diverse don’t mean EVERYTHING they perceive is wrong.

    Your examples don’t help you to advance your ideational positions.

    If a shaman of amazonian tribe find a causality between a medicinal plant and a reduction of fever, so it’s a fact. What is a true illusion is when a person try to distort certain ”entity” to fit with your ideological positions, even i believe there is a universal ideology, what is right or wrong, via moral/affective perspective or cognitive perspective.

  328. @Mao Cheng Ji

    Is that for lack of capacity for scholastic logic, or for lack of opportunity to study and master such? While I am from a city (a majority of my ethnic group has been agriculturally landless for about a century, despite a minority of my ethnic group holding a majority or near majority of privately held agricultural land in my country), I quit school to work after grade 8. It was much later that I obtained a matriculation and university education.

  329. @Johan Meyer

    So you are saying that it’s impossible for truly smarter people be evil*
    This is my central and repetitive question

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  330. res says:
    @Santoculto

    That’s a 3,000 word post. Please point me to what you mean. Excerpting a quote is easy (or should be, if you actually have one there).

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Santoculto
  331. @Santoculto

    And I have answered it, already (in response to Mao Chengji, comment 255), within a causal framework of lead poisoning as a probable source of most evil. Even if evil were exclusively from lead poisoning, one could have rather smart evil people. Let there be other causes of evil, then certainly. I just doubt that evil yet intelligent people would become politicians.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @FKA Max
    , @FKA Max
  332. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Factor analysis (FA) has pretty sound and straightforward mathematical foundations from linear algebra. On the other hand the Principal Component Analysis (PCA) formulated by Spearman (I think before FA existed) is mathematically iffy and it took many years of patching up with various additional mathematical criteria (some seemingly ad hoc) to assure a procedural stability. To the outsider like myself the procedures they use seem to be arbitrary. FA produces orthogonal base that is associated with eigenvalues of covariance matrix. However orthogonality itself does not guarantees uniqueness. You can transform two arbitrary vectors from that base by (n=2) rotation matrix and you will obtain two orthogonal vectors that are also orthogonal to remaining vectors of the base. So you created new orthogonal base that is no longer associated with all eigenvalues of the covariance matrix. So which of the bases is the right one from which to to pick the most dominant vector to be g? So, the non-uniquenss issue is present in FA.

    In PCA they obtain initial base from which they select several (say 3 ) dominant vectors and then they start to rotate them to redistribute (variance?, error?….) according to various criteria. Sometimes they use oblique rotation which produce vectors no longer mutually orthogonal. Why would they do it I do not know. But in my opinion orthogonality of the vectors is a bare minimum any methodology should preserve otherwise it is a joke. No serious self-respecting mathematician will go near PCA, in my opinion. The idiosyncrasies, arbitrariness and ambiguity in the PCA that is used in social sciences (like that concerned with IQ) might be kept there on purpose so the researchers can impose their “visions” and have them confirmed by the results of “scientific mathematical based PCA” that is really very malleable.

    Before computers, certainly in Spearman times, decomposing matrix into eigenvectors was not a trivial task. On the other hand constructing the problem as looking for just one, the most dominant vector, reduced the problem to simpler and easier to compute problem. I do not know whether this situation had impact on Spearman in his hypothesis that there is only one component of intelligence that he called g, but I suspect it was so. If he had modern mathematical tools the concept of g would not have been formulated. Is the 2nd next in “strength” component negligible? Many researchers did not believe so.

    The article you cited apart from all problems with g has other methodological flaws.

    (1) Formulas to calculate g are different for educated and less educated. Why single g can’t be extracted from one covariance matrix but we construct separate covariance matrices for two groups (actually 4 groups in the paper) even though both groups took the same battery of subtests? Should we push it further? Should g be parametrized by age or IQ? So this would mean that g changes with time and experience. But g suppose to be this factor that is associated with heritability only and not with environment? It suppose to represent genes, right? At least this is what g-mongers want us to believe.

    (2) There are some claims (strongly favored by HBD faction of IQ crowd) that heritability of IQ in young age is low while among adults is high. So, say, it is 30% for 10 years old and 75% for 19 years old). They calculate these numbers from their studies. The crux of the matter is the definition of heritability and how it is calculated from data but that si another story. Aside for it try to think if these results are not in contradiction of the result suggested by the paper you cited. Do you see it? Heritability of IQ is growing up with age on the one hand and g loadings are going down with educational level on the other hand. Can we have both? Isn’t it that g suppose to be heritable 100%? You can toss into it another factoid strongly favored by HBD faction of IQ crowd that IQ is stable over the age.

    The loading I think is a correlation between given subtest scores and g or (any other principal factor). I think this correlation translates to the so called explained variance. This concept of loading makes sense when the factors are orthogonal. When they are not as often in PCA after an oblique rotation the loading itself will have less explanatory power.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @res
  333. @Johan Meyer

    I doubt, evil there is in natural world. Come from the nature.

    Yanomamo??

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  334. @res

    HBD is the epicenter of IQism, the wrong idea that IQ is singular synonymous of intelligence. This post is a irrefutable prove that you have denied since a long time in our debates and that I already show for you.

    If IQ is intelligence for IQists so higher IQ people are INVINCIBLY smarter than anyone. There is only one intelligence that is measured by IQ tests. Emotional or psychological skills are not intelligence and emotional intelligence is in the true a good arrangement of psychological traits. People who are or appear to be very smarter but score lower or”below expected” have some congenital disorder that prevent them to score higher. IQ correlates very with “rationality”, ;). No doubt a genius as Feynman have scored so “lower” in IQ tests, etc = IQism

  335. @res

    There is something wrong with the test Feynman did.. Correcting

  336. @utu

    FA came first, PCA later, and it is FA that is subject to rotations iirc—I believe you are confusing the two. To be sure, FA is invoked for g, but when they do the brain subvolume studies, they get practical, and do either pca or paa (axis rather than component—said to have greater immunity to noise). As FA is somewhat arbitrary (the rotations to which you refer), I ignore it. As far as I’m concerned​, no rotations nor lack of orthogality should come in.

    Did you read my comment 331? I assume you are responding to 321, but I cannot see with this device.

    As to your concern about multiple covariance matrices, as long as the eigenvector of the 1st principal components are roughly parallel, it can serve as a validity check of the g hypothesis. Unfortunately they did not report the dot products of the different eigenvectors. This brings me to your concern about multiple components. If the second component you refer to is something valid then it should also be roughly parallel over the different population groupings, taking separate covariance matrices for the eigenvectors of the separate groups, although beyond a certain IQ, the ranking of the principal component may change.

    As to arrisal of g, my hypothesis is brain damage​, hence greater loading of g at lower IQs. Others can defend their own hypotheses. This brings me to adult IQ. Heritability may include environment (environment that parents faced in infancy is correlated with environment that child faces in infancy wrt brain damage and stunting). I doubt thay adult IQ is that fixed at the higher ranges.

    • Replies: @utu
  337. res says:
    @utu

    Factor analysis (FA) has pretty sound and straightforward mathematical foundations from linear algebra. On the other hand the Principal Component Analysis (PCA) formulated by Spearman (I think before FA existed) is mathematically iffy and it took many years of patching up with various additional mathematical criteria (some seemingly ad hoc) to assure a procedural stability.

    I think you got it backwards, utu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal_component_analysis

    • Replies: @utu
  338. FKA Max says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Mr. Meyer,

    I have extensively researched this topic.

    Here some links, and also please check out my other comments in these comment threads, if you are interested in further details on the topic of “evil”:

    on the topic of intelligence versus wisdom, where my argument was, that intelligence and wisdom always go hand in hand, but that there are plenty of very intelligent people, who lack wisdom, or can be outright evil, e.g. psychopaths.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-secret-in-your-eyes/#comment-1817068

    This was actually my original point, that corrupt and sociopathic/psychopathic high(er)-IQ individuals/races can do a lot more damage than low(er)-IQ ones, in terms of financial damage caused by their crimes, etc., and many so-called “race realists” and IQists completely ignore this dynamic, or even welcome it, which really makes them Social Darwinists, in my opinion.

    http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1731013

    Jews and the Chinese seem to be equally ambitious and competitive, some might even call it cunning. Interestingly, the two groups/races seem to have comparable IQs and seem to be carrying the low-activity 3-repeat MAOA allele at very similar rates
    [...]
    Low MAO-A activity is associated with a significantly increased risk of aggressive and antisocial behavior.

    http://www.unz.com/freed/iq-a-skeptics-view/#comment-1730862

    In my opinion, all applicants and candidates for high-level positions in government, business, the military, etc. and for prestigious elite schools/universities (both students and faculty), which are the springboards into high-level governmental, etc. positions and the elite’s main recruiting grounds, should be both IQ and Psychopathy Checklist tested.

    I think this would ensure a more genuine and solid meritocracy and elite.

    http://www.unz.com/forum/white-students-unfair-advantage-in-admissions/#comment-1754583

    Some additional information/comments on why, in my opinion, it is important to test for both IQ (Intelligence Quotient) and PQ (Psychopathy Quotient)

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-secret-in-your-eyes/#comment-1801503

    Psychopathy in women: theoretical and clinical perspectives

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/lifestyle-advice/#comment-1809071

    The female psychopaths I have assessed are every bit as dangerous as their male peers. The important point is for society—and clinicians—to understand that the female psychopath may look different on the surface because the behaviors are different.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/lifestyle-advice/#comment-1809777

    successful psychopaths [high(er) IQ] – corporate climbers involved in irregular crime who tend to have had more privileged background with little risk of legal penalties.
    unsuccessful psychopaths [low(er) IQ] – involved in regular crime who tend to have had less privileged backgrounds and much higher risk of legal penalties.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1821930

    According to Dutton, the ten careers that have the highest proportion of psychopaths are:
    [...]
    When you hear the word psychopath – what do you think of? Probably some brutal serial killer that was out of his mind – right? But – what if I told you that psychopaths that can function at extremely high levels – and succeed in all levels of society? If you think that psychopathic tendencies and success have nothing in common – then everything you know is wrong!

    http://www.unz.com/mhudson/bloombergs-hit-job-on-venezuela-and-me/#comment-1822862

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  339. utu says:
    @res

    Certainly! Thank you! I am getting old. Mistakes like that happen to me more frequently. It is as if some circuit responsible for self-check providing a feedback was malfunctioning.

  340. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I made a mistake. res also spotted it. In my comment FA and PCA just need to be swapped with each other. I am sorry for it. I hate when it happens.

    Answer t o#321.

    As FA is somewhat arbitrary (the rotations to which you refer), I ignore it. As far as I’m concerned​, no rotations nor lack of orthogality should come in.

    So we agree on this. Only vectors associated with eigenvalues, right? But they do not. So why do they do it? Which of their results do you trust then?

    Two parallel vectors that are normalized (as must be in this case) are identical. If the g vectors from four matrices had the same coefficients of their linear combination expansions they would announce it loudly as the great accomplishment and confirmation of g theory.

    Unfortunately they did not report the dot products of the different eigenvectors.

    You cannot (and certainly may not) calculate dot products of two vectors obtained from two different covariance matrices as each matrix was generated from separate data set of scores, right? Even if the two vectors were identical you cannot determine correlation between them as they are defined on two separate spaces of subtest scores data.

    As to arrisal of g, my hypothesis is brain damage​, hence greater loading of g at lower IQs. Others can defend their own hypotheses.

    Here we go again. You must love this idea. Let me guess why, because it is your own, right? I am not interested in explaining why there are loading differences between less and more educated but I am questioning whether these loading differences are just artifacts of data and the methodology because the methodology is questionable. Why did not they get a single g from one global covariance matrix and then calculated correlations of g scores and subtests’ scores separately for each educational level group? Would those correlation show differences? Perhaps then I might entertain your idea of brain damage, etc. But let’s suppose there is something to it. Then I would like to see longitudinal study where you do tests and covariance matrices through out their educational careers so you can differentiate those who pursued higher education from those who did not at the same level of education, say in high school. Would we see similar differences between the two groups while they were both in high school as we see (if we really see anything) after one graduated from university and one stopped at high school.

    As far as heritability of IQ, it is claimed that it increases with age from 30% in childhood to 70-80% in adulthood. Do I believe it? I have a problem with it. I think the crux of the matter is in the definition of heritability and how it is measured (twins or siblings, parents-offsprings?). If the result were true then identical twins should have significant divergence in IQ’s in young age and less so in adulthood. I do not think this was ever observed.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Johan Meyer
  341. FKA Max says:
    @Johan Meyer

    More info:

    Psychopathy in the Pedophile (From Psychopathy: Antisocial, Criminal, and Violent Behavior, P 304-320, 1998, Theodore Millon, Erik Simonsen, et al, eds.–See NCJ-179236)

    This paper argues that pedophilia may represent a special case or subcase of psychopathy and that the main aims of both the psychopath and the pedophile are to dominate, to use, and to subjugate another person in service of the grandiose self. [...] It notes that the major differences between psychopaths and pedophiles are that the object of the predation for the pedophile is a child and that the overt behavioral manifestation of the pathology is sexual.https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=179240

    http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/#comment-1673588

    Sometimes/often pedophilia (advocacy) and substance abuse go hand in hand though. Volker Beck is an example of that, and coincidentally he also happens to be somewhat of a John Podesta look-alike
    [...]
    During his life, Maciel was the focus of several investigations of his behavior. There were allegations of drug abuse , for which he was investigated in 1956; he was hospitalised for morphine addiction.[15] He was also investigated for allegedly sexually abusing children. He was returned as head of the Congregation.

    http://www.unz.com/article/precedents-for-pizzagate/#comment-1708349


    Breitbart’s Man in Rome: A Gentle Voice in a Strident Chorus

    At the time, Mr. Williams was the face of the conservative Legion of Christ religious order. In 1997, Mr. Williams helped found the conservative Legion-sponsored Zenit news agency, and he has written 15 books, including “Knowing Right From Wrong: A Christian Guide to Conscience.” [...]

    In the meantime, Mr. Williams became the go-to priest for Vatican analysis on American television and defended the leader of his order, the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado, from accusations of child molestation.

    Pope Benedict forced Father Maciel to leave public ministry in 2006, and after the priest died in 2008, it was shown he fathered several children, and abused drugs and children. (“I thought he was innocent,” Mr. Williams said quietly, adding: “I was wrong.”)

    http://www.unz.com/article/precedents-for-pizzagate/#comment-1722323

  342. @FKA Max

    Interesting. I would be interested to see control for lead poisoning, but certainly a viable hypothesis. If it proves to be the case after controls, that would raise the question of what lead to selection for or non-removal of such traits and genes.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  343. @Santoculto

    I have been sloppy and have avoided a definition of evil for my purposes. I shall attempt one here.

    Evil is harming one’s own species (this may include other species on which one’s own species dependence ultimately rest, e.g. ecology), with the intent or expectation of harm, where normal survival is available without such harm. Murder meets this condition, as it leads to social harm which damages the species (a subset population), as does theft, much pollution and most instances of war. The definition avoids a bias to the individual, without a blase utilitarianism, IMAO. People with limited self control tend toward evil conduct, as they lack the mechanisms of self control to avoid dubious (yet individually short term rewarding e.g. theft, murder etc) conduct.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  344. @utu

    I tried to find the paper that I had read (many years ago) on correlation between brain subvolume and g, which simply used 1st principal axis and MRI measured volume, but so many have been published since, mainly with the tomfoolery that you describe; as an example, this one. The fact that most subtests are positively correlated, and that brain volume is somewhat correlated, means that they can claim a g correlation. I didn’t realise the field is that mathematically pathetic.

    You cannot (and certainly may not) calculate dot products of two vectors obtained from two different covariance matrices as each matrix was generated from separate data set of scores, right? Even if the two vectors were identical you cannot determine correlation between them as they are defined on two separate spaces of subtest scores data.

    Why would it be a correlation calculation? If the data sets have a similar causal structure, the unit vectors should be roughly parallel—correlation doesn’t enter into it. You seemed to understand this earlier on:

    Two parallel vectors that are normalized (as must be in this case) are identical. If the g vectors from four matrices had the same coefficients of their linear combination expansions they would announce it loudly as the great accomplishment and confirmation of g theory.

    In fairness, again, I didn’t realise the degree of mathematical tomfoolery, so my use of that paper is dubious.

    Using principal components, there is a reason not to perform the analysis on the total set. If the subtest increase is a non-linear function of IQ, then principal component analysis over smaller ranges (e.g. 82-90, 83-91… 101-109) should be able to find the curve—which would be far more interesting than the “varimax” games—grief, if there are two significant components, they would be merged, and any variation with IQ would be destroyed.

    • Replies: @utu
  345. FKA Max says:
    @Johan Meyer

    If it proves to be the case after controls, that would raise the question of what lead to selection for or non-removal of such traits and genes.

    In China the explanation is likely this (the same selection pressures could have applied to the Jewish community/population). Article by Mr. Unz:

    How Social Darwinism Made Modern China
    A thousand years of meritocracy shaped the Middle Kingdom.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/how-social-darwinism-made-modern-china-248/

    A People Shaped by Their Difficult Environment

    With regard to the Chinese, the widespread view was that many of their prominent characteristics had been shaped by thousands of years of history in a generally stable and organized society possessing central political administration, a situation almost unique among the peoples of the world.
    [...]
    Winnowed by ages of grim elimination in a land populated to the uttermost limits of subsistence, the Chinese race is selected as no other for survival under the fiercest conditions of economic stress. At home the average Chinese lives his whole life literally within a hand’s breadth of starvation. Accordingly, when removed to the easier environment of other lands, the Chinaman brings with him a working capacity which simply appalls his competitors.[6]
    [...]
    Moreover, certain unique aspects of traditional Chinese society may have maintained and amplified this long-term effect, in a manner unlike that found in most other societies in Europe or elsewhere. China indeed may constitute the largest and longest-lasting instance of an extreme “Social Darwinist” society anywhere in human history, perhaps with important implications for the shaping of the modern Chinese people.[10]

    Remarkable Upward Mobility But Relentless Downward Mobility

    The vast majority of Chinese might be impoverished peasants, but for those with ability [plus cunning, risk taking, aggressiveness, etc.] and luck, the possibilities of upward mobility were quite remarkable in what was an essentially classless society. The richer strata of each village possessed the wealth to give their most able children a classical education in hopes of preparing them for the series of official examinations. If the son of a rich peasant or petty landlord were sufficiently diligent and intellectually able, he might pass such an examination and obtain an official degree, opening enormous opportunities for political power and wealth.
    [...]
    In many respects, Moise’s demographic analysis of China eerily anticipated that of Clark for England, as he pointed out that only the wealthier families of a Chinese village could afford the costs associated with obtaining wives for their sons, with female infanticide and other factors regularly ensuring up to a 15 percent shortfall in the number of available women. Thus, the poorest village strata usually failed to reproduce at all, while poverty and malnourishment also tended to lower fertility and raise infant mortality as one moved downward along the economic gradient. At the same time, the wealthiest villagers sometimes could afford multiple wives or concubines and regularly produced much larger numbers of surviving offspring. Each generation, the poorest disappeared, the less affluent failed to replenish their numbers, and all those lower rungs on the economic ladder were filled by the downwardly mobile children of the fecund wealthy.

    How Jews Became Smart: Anti-”Natural History of Ashkenazi Intelligence”

    What about those at the pinnacle, did they need high IQ’s? No doubt, it took cunning to see good opportunities. But other personality factors besides intelligence could lead to fortune. One could even keep this with a psychological Darwinian orientation by suggesting that risk taking, or aggressiveness-both traits often claimed to have genetic bases-led to great profit. — Jews (2R 1.3%; 3R 62%) carry low-activity MAOA at much higher rates than Whites (2R 0.2%; 3R 36%) http://theunsilencedscience.blogspot.com/2013/01/monoamine-oxidase-bibliography.html Yet more then any individual qualities, the most important factors leading to greater financial success were possession of capital, social connections, and political patrons. And let us not forget luck–circumstances that lead to a huge payoff, or sudden ruination.

    http://www.unz.com/announcement/expanding-our-science-and-history-coverage/#comment-1692309

    Genghis Khan very, very likely was a carrier of the low-activity MAOA allele, the “warrior gene.”

    1 in 200 Men Direct Descendants of Genghis Khan

    In the life and legacy of the great Mongol warlord I suspect we see the patterns of male domination and power projection which were the norm after the decline of hunter-gatherers, and before the rise of the mass consumer society. During this period complex civilizations built on rents extracted from subsistence agriculturalists arose. These civilizations were dominated by powerful men, who could accrue to themselves massive surpluses, and translate those surpluses into reproductive advantage. This was not possible in the hunter-gatherer world where reproductive variance was constrained by the reality that allocation of resources was relatively equitable from person to person. But with agriculture and village society inequality shot up, and the winner-take-all dynamic came to the fore. And so the appearance on the scene genetically of super-Y lineages. Over the past 200 years the pendulum has started to shift back, thanks to the spread of Western values and normative monogamy, which dampens the potential unequal reproductive outcomes between the rich and the poor.

    http://www.unz.com/gnxp/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  346. @Johan Meyer

    Evil is not a fixed trait but also I don’t think that evil is just harm its own species. Instinct make many living beings harm others to the survive. If environment is too harsh it can be reflected on living beings, only the harsh survive. Definition of evil for humans is relatively different from evil in natural world but i also believe that this moral/behaviorally proportional attitudes are universal. What’s differentiates as always it’s that humans because higher self awareness invariably have more knowledge/awareness about their own attitudes than other living beings. That’s all.

    Yes evilness can be caused by mutations, probably by environmental issues for example alcoholic mothers? But it can be caused by simple inheritance. I have a theory that non super self dysfunctional evil people tend to “inherit” their evilness.
    I don’t believe in your theory for everything about load poisoning, sorry, it’s my opinion by now.

  347. @Santoculto

    Sorry, evil is not a fixed concept and not trait.

  348. The reason I stated “harm the species” rather than “harm a being” is that some species engage even in cannibalism, without harming the population viability of the species.

    As to lead poisoning and evil, the question is whether it has explanatory power. Like any theory it should be falsifiable. We will see. Take Genghis Khan—if that gene drove him to evil, and if that gene drives others to evil, why did it take so long, and why has it not repeated? Why is the murder rate of Jews, and of Chinese, so low?

  349. @Santoculto

    Speaking of lead poisoning and theory of everything (your notion, not mine—I say only that it would be responsible for at least some evil and IQ loss), you never did respond to comment 151—I am particularly interested in your response to Nevin’s cohort data.

  350. @utu

    One could attack the varimax rotation games by showing that the vectors from different datasets, to calculate g are large angles to each other. Another thing would be to see of the brain volume studies should repeat (varimax rotated and all that), or if the subvolumes should shift somewhat based on the vectors used to calculate g. If the vectors, after varimax rotation are consistent (near parallel), then that is an interesting result, if in utter opposition to good mathematical taste.

  351. @FKA Max

    I shall read the references that Unz cites. I would be curious to know how far back the observations go, as the 19th century was particularly bad for China as well as many other places (see Davis’s Late Victorian Holocausts, for example—one famine reduced the population one part of China so badly—1870s iirc—that they did not recover their prefamine population until 1956).

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  352. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    “Why would it be a correlation calculation?”

    dot products of two vectors = correlation between two variables

    orthogonality = correlation is zero

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  353. @utu

    That is one application of the dot product. My background is more mechanical and engineering; the divergence, for example, is a differential dot product. In n-dimensional space, the dot product between two vectors gives the product of their lengths and the cosine of the angle between the two vectors in their shared plane, and that is the application that I am using in this case. I am not trying to calculate a correlation, so your concern is misplaced.

    In the dot product application that you have in mind, the components are corresponding data points, with their means subtracted and normalised to their standard deviations, which is a different yet valid application of the dot product.

    • Replies: @utu
  354. @Santoculto

    Another comment to which you failed to respond was 260, addendum to 257, and as a response to your comment 132 (social class as a confound for IQ versus lead). The purpose of my two comments was precisely to see how to account for the confounds that you and others had listed. Did you miss that comment? It demonstrates precisely that lead poisoning is manifestly not my “theory of everything”.

  355. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I am not trying to calculate a correlation, so your concern is misplaced.

    I think you do but you do not see it.

    In the PCA when you formulate the problem your metrics is a correlation (covariance). This metrics defines a Hilbert space. The vectors of this Hilbert space are actually the scores of each subtest. If for example you have N=1500 people who tested on Reading Comprehension (say as one of the subtests) you have vector R_C that is 1500 elements (scores) long. And if you have another subtests, say Math Problems you have another vector M_P, 1500 elements (scores) long. If you subtract means and divide by standard deviations both vectors then the dot product R_C*M_P=correlation. So the correlation is the metrics.

    When you are solving the PCA problem you do not need to deal with the vectors of the scores that are 1500 elements long anymore. You just have covariance matrix obtained form them. And that’s it. Only if you want to calculate individual scores of g for each individual you need the raw data. But for example to get correlation between g and R_C you get it from the covariance matrix w/o calculating g scores for individuals.

    The R_C or M_P are rather referred to as random variables than vectors. What gets some people confused is that solving PCA problem reduces it to finding the eigenvectors of the covariance matrix. These vectors belong to entirely different space. Their dimension is small equal to the dimension of the covariance matrix. When you obtain one of principal components it is really a variable, say g that is a linear combination of variables R_C, M_P,… etc. The g is also a random variable. It can be converted to a 1500 elements long vector of scores if you still have original raw data from subtests. The g is associated with the eigenvector of the matrix but it is not really an eigenvector because g is scalar when we think in terms of random variables or g is 1500 long vector when we think in terms of scores or g is k dimensional vector of coefficients of its linear combination of subtests, where k is the dimension of the covariance matrix. These k coefficients are directly related to the eigenvector.

    So when you talk about two variables (principal components) g1 and g2 obtained from two PCA’s from two different covariance matrices M1 and M2 how can you talk about them being parallel or not? You can look at coefficients of linear expansions of each vector and see if they are linearly dependent. That would be linear algebra approach.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  356. @Johan Meyer

    Johan,
    first, we are talking about a MACRO chain of trends with a complex web of variables. We have some constant patterns: blacks are disproportional violent WHATEVER the place they are; whites, namely western ones, and northeast asians, are less ”street-violent”, WHATEVER the place they are.

    So, we have since the most polluted city in the world, to the free-pollution areas, where this trends has ben well documented. If lead poisoning is so powerful not just blacks would be affected but everyone. If load poisoning is so high to affect blacks like that so it must affected other groups, we had a overall increase of violent behavior caused by load poisoning. How explain blacks who live in dangerous places and supposedly, are being affected by lead, don’t have the same behavior**

    We know many black neighbohoods in USA, for example, are near to the other ethnic ghettos. To this hypothesis be right, chineses, italians, irish, jews, everyone must have the same levels of violence that blacks, on disproportional avg, has showed.

    I use myself and the region i live as example. A region with much less pollution, a state, many middle and little cities, and tell you that: avg black behavior don’t change here.

    Even we know pollution levels have in mainland Africa i really doubt that their behavior has been shaped by load poisoning.

    I think you know human body have some tolerance to the lead…

    When a place is very polluted, this pollution don’t stay there but spread to the neighborhood.

    Based on your hypothesis, men must be disproportionately more affected by load ”poisoning” than women. For example, the level of criminality among black women in USA is the same levels to the white american criminality.

    To the decrease of incarcerations among younger and increase of incarcerations among older we have firstly studied what’s going, if it’s not only a local phenomena.

    The higher violence levels among black communities don’t appear to be modern phenomenon. Why do you think USA created a ”Jim Crow laws”*

    Why amerindians weren’t more enslaved but blacks were*

  357. @Johan Meyer

    Before to jump to the extraordinary evidence like that we need analyse what is more obvious to find contradictions to invalidates them, for example, demographic changes or changes in judicial aspect.

  358. @Santoculto

    Even we know pollution levels have in mainland Africa i really doubt that their behavior has been shaped by lead poisoning.

    …Even we know pollution levels have increased in…

  359. FKA Max says:
    @Johan Meyer

    It seems that very harsh and “Social Darwinist” environments and cultures do not necessarily select for intelligence exclusively, or maybe not even predominately, but that they mostly select for risk taking, aggressiveness, ruthlessness, i.e., psychopathic and rather anti-social traits. This has wide-ranging implications and consequences for our World and in particular for the (white) West when it comes to immigration; even or particularly when it comes to mass-immigration of high(er) IQ but also high(er) PQ people from China, etc. into Western cultures and nations, particular into more altruistic, individualistic, trusting(less corrupt, less cut-throat, less Social Darwinist) Protestant/Northern European cultures and nations:

    According to one hypothesis, some traits associated with psychopathy may be socially adaptive, and psychopathy may be a frequency-dependent, socially parasitic strategy, which may work as long as there is a large population of altruistic and trusting individuals, relative to the population of psychopathic individuals, to be exploited.[81][86] It is also suggested that some traits associated with psychopathy such as early, promiscuous, adulterous, and coercive sexuality may increase reproductive success.[81][86]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Other_theories

    Do we want to live in a more psychopathic/Social Darwinist/less altruistic (and less intelligent, if the Catholic Church gets its way) society or not?

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1812643

    Human beings don’t come much cleverer or more inspiring than Professor Stephen Hawking. So it was a classy touch to leave the studio for only the second time in the show’s 55-year history and go over to Cambridge’s Gonville & Caius College, Cambridge. The world’s foremost scientist paid warm, witty tribute to Balliol team, saying: “It’s not clear whether intelligence has any long-term survival value – bacteria manage to flourish without it – but it is one of the most admirable qualities, especially when displayed by such young minds.” A lovely moment for the Balliol quartet, who duly celebrated with schooners of sherry and endearingly awkward bonding.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/university-challenge-final-live-will-eric-monkman-wolfson-college/

    Cleverness may carry survival costs

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4200-cleverness-may-carry-survival-costs/

    Being smart is not always a good thing in the evolutionary race, suggests a new study by Swiss researchers

    If intelligence were always a positive attribute, it would always be selected for by natural selection. But it is not – people and animals have their dolts as well as their Einsteins.

    To evolutionary biologists, that diversity means that theoretically, there must be some cost to being smart. Now for the first time, researchers have shown that in fruit flies at least, it doesn’t always pay to be clever.

    When Frederic Mery and colleagues at the University of Fribourg, pitted fast-learning fruit fly larvae against their more dimwitted cousins in scarce food conditions – the slower fruit flies came out on top.

    “This shows that just having a better ability to learn involves a cost, even when you aren’t using it,” Mery told New Scientist.

    http://www.unz.com/comments/all/2016/08/15/?commenterfilter=FKA+Max

    I don’t think the high IQ community cares too much about its own survival as a collective in evolutionary terms, otherwise it would have a higher fertility rate.
    [...]
    With each increase of 15 IQ points, a woman’s urge to reproduce is diminished by 25%.

    The average IQ of women who want children is 5.6 points lower than those who don’t want them.

    Among all 45-year-old women in England, 20% are childless, but this figure rises to 43% among those with college degrees.
    [...]
    My apologies for not having been more precise in my above comment. I should have written, that individually high IQ persons will manage just fine on their own, and probably will live pretty long, productive, and semi- to completely-fulfilling lives, but collectively they are an endangered species, due to their reproductive behavior/inactivity, and therefore worthy of protection, (financial, etc.) nurturing/aid, and other sorts of positive encouragement and reinforcement in general. As some other commenters and I said and noticed, the true potential of this community has not even remotely been tapped into thus far. Doing so serves in the self-interest of humanity as a whole. Paradoxically, I guess, it technically is not self-interest to protect and nurture the high IQ community

    http://www.unz.com/runz/when-viacom-ceo-philippe-dauman-still-had-an-iq-of-260/#comment-1526049

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  360. @utu

    The R_C or M_P are rather referred to as random variables than vectors. What gets some people confused is that solving PCA problem reduces it to finding the eigenvectors of the covariance matrix. These vectors belong to entirely different space.

    Do they belong to an entirely different space? If so, the information in this link (page 17, step 5) is wrong, and PCA gains a seemingly metaphysical aspect. My non-metaphysical interpretation, following the link, is that the component directions (eigenvectors) are defined in terms of the starting directions, e.g. scores along math and verbal axes. At most, I could see an axis-dependent scaling being required before the dot product.

    On the assumption that the information in the link is correct, does say the mathematical subtest score contribute similarly to the 1st principal component calculated for the subset 85-95 as it does to the first principal component calculated for the subset 90-100? If it does not, is it because of a radical break in dependence, or is there a gradual shift? I am thinking in terms of differential geometry—how do the different subtests contribute on average to IQ differentially with respect to IQ? And do they do so consistently?

    So to speak of parallel (equal, for unit vectors) vectors (eigenvalues of 1st principal components, call the latter g for brevity despite lack of varimax), I mean only that if I draw the vectors (in n-space), there will be some angle between them (same origin), with an associated cosine, and that cosine will equal the dot product; the size of this dot product is a gauge of how rapidly (and consistently) the subtest dependence of the first principal component changes with IQ.

    • Replies: @utu
  361. @Santoculto

    You raised these concerns before, in comment 132. I responded to them, in comments 148 (you hit reply to produce 162, which was a evasion, to which I responded with 169, showing part of why your evasion does not work biologically—there are other biological problems with your evasion as well; you did not respond), and comment 137 (you evaded and raised other issues with comment 150; I adressed your one evasion—Brazil started phaseout of leaded petrol early—and your other concerns that you raised, in comment 159; you responded in comment 168, explaining why you suspect genetic causation).

    Why repeat these concerns, without addressing my response, also? Lead paint has been a major concern world wide, as it became very popular in the 1870s. I even suggested on this thread how to exclude lead poisoning as a cause of violence (K-edge imaging of bone), which, data willing, could exclude lead as a cause of black (and other) violence.

    Then there is the further issue of the time dependence of black (and other) violence, which is (again; 1st comment 151, 2nd comment 361) why I asked you to respond to the time dependence/cohort data of offending per Nevin. You’ve avoided this matter twice now. A third time, and I’ll take it that you don’t care to discuss evidence.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  362. @FKA Max

    I wonder though. Why has higher intelligence not disappeared then? A species is after all a vehicle for genes to reproduce, and genes (assuming such causation to a relevant degree) are somewhat dependent on each other within the population gene pool. Those traits you list also apply intra-ethnically, no?

    Without advocating for mass immigration, let’s consider what happens after a large (e.g. 5%) inmigration. Are they not subject to selective pressures based on the new environment? The first three generations may be harmful to some extent, but their unappealing conduct should lead to selection away from such a concentration, as the rest of the society will shortly exclude them. Altruistic people usually will stop being altruistic to individuals and groups who are exploitative. As an example, Ghanians consequently are leery in their dealings with Nigerians, and most people are careful, until personal trust is earned, with Scotsmen, Jews, Ukrainians, Gujeratis, Punjabis and Lebanese.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  363. @Santoculto

    As to your concern with it being a local phenomena, Nevin has found similar patterns throughout the US, and throughout the western world. Japan, for example, strongly reduced their lead in Petrol in the 70s, but only outright banned it in the 80s.

  364. @Johan Meyer

    Because I no have knowledge enough about it. I analyze patterns. This theory smell left… Maybe this author is a clever social justice warrior trying take from black nature this trend to the violence and less poisoning still can be used as “symptom of white racism”.

    What I said, this is a extraordinary statement seems without check previous possibilities and as usually happen with extraordinary statements this patterns must be global and the absence of lead poisoning the otherwise pattern must be evident. It’s not the case.

    Even in supposed poisoned black neighborhoods we have non violent blacks. How explain it if supposedly most of them has been over exposed to the lead??

    Refute my points. You are being invasive.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  365. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I do not think there is disagreement between us. There is no contradiction with your tutorial link.

    x and y in the tutorial are two random variables that are correlated on n=10 data points (scores). So the data are presented by two n=10 vectors x=(x1,…,x10) and y=(y1,…,y10). The dot product of these vectors n=10 dimensional space is their correlation is they were normalized by standard deviation and means were subtracted.

    You construct 2×2 correlation matrix C from them. Then you find two eigenvectors of the matrix C. Call them e1=(g11,g12) and e2=(g21, g22). The vectors are orthogonal in classical algebraic sense, i.e., their dot product g11*g21+g12*g22=0 in k=2 dimensional space to which they belong.

    The matrix G (or its inverse, right know I do not remember which) allows us to define two variables g1 and g2 such that 2-d vector (g1,g2) is obtain from 2-d vector (x,y) by multiplying (x,y) transpose by, say the matrix G. So you will be able to write that g1=a*x+b*y and g2=c*x+d*y where a, b, c, and d coefficients are derived from the matrix G. These two variables g1 and g2 are also n=10 vectors. And when you calculate correlation between g1 and g2 you will find that it is equal to zero. So the n=10 dimensional g1 and g2 vectors are orthogonal. And yes the fact that k=2 dimensional vectors e1 and e2 are orthogonal in a classical algebraic sense, i.e., g11*g21+g12*g22=0, is directly linked with the fact that g1 and g2 are orthogonal in sense of correlation.

    Sure you can look at an angle between vectors? What is the angle between data vectors x and y (n=10)? The cosine of that angle is the correlation if we normalized the vectors by their standard deviations first.

    However g1 and g2 are not the vectors in the same space as eigenvectors. They are n=10 dimensional while eigenvectors are k=2 dimensional. So when you talk about angles between vectors you must be precise which space the vectors belong to. And yes, one could call g1 or g2 an eigenvector but I would avoid it to not confuse the spaces or kept in mind that it is not an eigenvector of the covariance matrix. While PCA is reduced to an algebraic problem it originates in statistics and random variables. For this reason I prefer to call g1, x, y random variables and not vectors while keeping in mind that I can think of them as vectors and think of angles between them as well. The loading of x on g1 or vice versa is equal to the cosine of the angles between x and g1 vectors but we prefer to think of correlations rather than cosines of angles because we are in statistics not geometry.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  366. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Brain is a living organism, it process information as a set of interacting neural networks that keep growing, atrophying and modifying depending on stimulus and nutrients. Each network may have millions of nods. Certainly there is a general recipe for the rules how the network can grow that is encoded in the DNA.

    g-mongers and IQ-ers are telling us that they can assign a single number to encapsulate in it the totality of information about this network performance and operational potential (this would be IQ score) and furthermore they can extract a single number g that would be related to the recipe that is encoded in the DNA.

    Why do g-mongers feel the need to have g? How do they use this concept? We talked about it before and I think we agreed that it is just a rhetorical device used in various arguments. It does not forward any real research of science because the concept is really trivial and tautological. Every nonnegative symmetrical matrix has real (non imaginary) eigenvalues of which one must be the largest. So it serves the purpose to confound and dazzle the naive and unprepared.

    Why was it resurrected by Jensen when most of the researchers thought of it as some idiosyncrasy produced by Spearman in times when it was fashionable to mathematize psychology and at the same time mathematical tools to actually analyze multidimensional data were practically non existent and impractical to use?

    I did not pay attention to these topics until I stumbled at unz.com pursuing some article about situation in Syria. Since then I met so many aficionados of these concepts (g and IQ) and their alleged ramification I had to pause and started to look into it. A whole contingent of researchers and propagandists who really take themselves quite seriously like Karlin or Thompson is also here. As in any movements there are real actors and useful dupes. One needs to identify the real actors. One needs to follow the money. Who pays for this junk science? To what purpose?

    The question why Jensen or Lynn or Murray or Cochran became so active may have an interesting answers if you let yourself entertain some conspiratorial ideas. Who paid for it? Who prodded Charles Murray (could he be an CIA asset?) to write his Bell Curve? I do not think it is even his field. He had ghost writers me thinks.

    The most important question is qui bono. Who benefits? How does propagandization of the findings from this so called research serve the social-political status quo? What the population at large should really take from it: that Blacks are beyond redemption or that Jews are beyond reproach? Which one is more important? What popular articles have been written by Murray and Cochran? I do not think was about Africa or inner cities.

  367. @Santoculto

    What I said, this is a extraordinary statement seems without check previous possibilities and as usually happen with extraordinary statements this patterns must be global and the absence of lead poisoning the otherwise pattern must be evident. It’s not the case.

    The quote is grammatically strange enough that I cannot tell whether or not you are denying massive lead poisoning world wide especially starting 140 years ago and later, depending on location. If you are denying such poisoning, then you are at best misinformed. Europe banned leaded paint (depending on the country) between 1910 and 1930. USA and Canada banned leaded paint in the 1970s, although production had declined by 1910, with violent crime declining by the mid 30s. Blacks in the US would be subject to lead poisoning in the US; I am not aware of quality data of violence by blacks prior to the 1970s, outside USA. As to Britain, you have repeatedly avoided the matter, but I will raise it again: what proportion of blacks resident in Britain were born in Britain, and in which neighbourhoods were they born, and what is the distribution of the age of housing stock in these neighbourhoods? Reminder: poisoning in *infancy* is supposed to matter, not poisoning in *adulthood*.

    Even in supposed poisoned black neighborhoods we have non violent blacks. How explain it if supposedly most of them has been over exposed to the lead??

    Or why do blacks who commit violence in some years not commit violence in other years? One can probably explain it with the same model used elsewhere e.g. physical sciences. One has a per year expectation of perpetration of violence, which may be fractional (e.g. 20 percent). Apply Poisson statistics to estimate what fraction will commit no act of violence in a given year, one act of violence, two acts of violence in a given year, etc. This is before consideration is given to geographical and individual distribution of degree of poisoning.

    As to white racism, explain. A more likely candidate is that whites were figuring out that lead causes infant brain damage. Again, see Brush with Death (Chris Warren)—allegedly scientific denial of brain damage by sterilisation enthusiasts (1930s; the lead industry was publishing claims that poisoning below 80 microgram/decilitre was harmless—their research probably supported that, as for paint blood lead is a useless proxy; see link in my comment 103 to an early comment on another thread, where I mathematically show as much) that lead chip eating causes brain damage, to a mother who observed her daughter go from bright, sociable and intelligent (e.g. mastering the alphabet at age 2), to dull and barely able to speak, is hardly going to convince such parents to trust the sterilisation enthusiasts, though it may make them sell their properties for cheap. Only problem was that there weren’t enough blacks to take all the lead painted property, and about half of it remained in white occupation by the early 90s, when the clean-up started, which resulted in further poisoning as dust was spread around (dry sanding, as well as demolition).

    Another country that had huge lead poisoning for a long time is Jamaica. Lead solder dissolving from still joints into rum, likely paint, then petrol and backyard recycling of lead acid batteries—have you heard of a tool called google scholar?

    The worst in terms of affected blacks (although Cape coloureds were affected worse) was South Africa—lead petrol contained about five times as much lead per litre as four star until 1981 (by 1989 it had been reduced to two and a half times), and it wasn’t removed until 2006. A formal ban on leaded paint came into nominal effect in 2010, but as of last year, the government was still not able to shut down all production, and had carried out several raids. Children are also much more likely to play on the street.

    Notice also in the last leak the fuel lead concentration in several African and Latin American countries, and consider children playing in the street.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @Santoculto
  368. @utu

    Let (ga11,ga12) be the eigenvector corresponding to the 1st principal component of the IQ 85-95 set, and (gb11,gb12) be the eigenvector corresponding to the same for the IQ 90-100 set. Do you still object to me finding (ga11,ga12) DOT (gb11,gb12)? If so, why? I have repeatedly explained in detail that this is the operation that I seek to carry out, and why I seek to carry it out.

    • Replies: @utu
  369. @utu

    IQ is correlated with crime, etc. Rick Nevin gave a plausible biological non-genetic account, albeit with epidemiology that is dubious. If you are looking for a ghost-authored book, read Sian Cansfield’s (pseudo-Romeo Dallaire’s) Shake Hands With The Devil. Then read Rwanda and the New Scramble for Africa. The problems that Murray et alia point to are real, and should be addressed.

  370. FKA Max says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I wonder though. Why has higher intelligence not disappeared then?

    It is still being selected for, but the how exactly is important and difficult to figure out. This is just speculation on my part so far, but I suspect and my research has led me to believe, that with greater emancipation of women selection for intelligence rather than aggressiveness, etc. actually increases. This could be another explanation for the Flynn Effect; greater emancipation and protection of women, which enables them to select their mates by traits they prefer and like, like intelligence and agreeableness rather than aggressiveness and violence/anti-social behavior. So the less chauvinistic/“macho” a race or culture is the more likely it is to select for intelligence and low(er) testosterone, i.e., lower aggressiveness, and against the “warrior gene,” i.e., psychopathy.

    Women like men to make them laugh for example; I think this has an evolutionary reason, because it is an easy way for women to test/detect intelligence, and also it is beneficial for one’s health and well-being if one is less often stressed/afraid and more happy, which is not the case if one is married to a violent psychopath for example, whom one cannot divorce, etc. Watch the video of Christopher Hitchens in my linked comment; he, rightly in my opinion, states that women are on average not as funny/intelligent as men, but that does not mean that they don’t have a sense of humor, i.e., they can, maybe even better than men, recognize and appreciate humor/intelligence/eccentricity:

    with the historic English predilection for young lovers selecting their own mates (e.g., in the 1590s, Shakespeare didn’t have any doubt whom his paying customers would sympathize with when he put on Romeo and Juliet) perhaps leading to the famous English appreciation for individualism and eccentricity.

    The English seem to have best recognized the importance and power of humor as an easily testable proxy for identifying intelligence. Giving young women more say in the selection of their mate is likely highly eugenic. No other culture that I know of has a more subtle, sophisticated, i.e., highly developed/advanced sense of humor and humor culture than the English
    [...]
    My point is mostly, that we can, and, most importantly, probably should, voluntarily, evolve/adapt into and adopt more peaceful, caring, and maybe more humorous ways of competing for mates; instead of bashing each other’s heads in. This would probably also help to select for higher intelligence, instead of selecting for high testosterone/aggression and/or the “warrior gene” ( i.e. anti-social/psychopathic behavior), which would be very eugenic and generally terrific, in my opinion.
    [...]
    Forty years ago, scientists were already asking this question. Hauck and Thomas, testing eighty elementary-level students, found a very high correlation between humour and intelligence (r = .91), but, of course, that was back in 1972.
    [...]
    Christopher Hitchens: Why Women Still Aren’t Funny

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/conformity-and-cousin-marriage/#comment-1834845

    A high tolerance [/appreciation] for eccentricity seems to be one of the keys in discovering and nurturing [and selecting for] ‘geniuses.’

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/isteve-metrics/#comment-1824441

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  371. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    No I do not object to calculating this dot product in this case even though the two vectors came from two separate matrices but in this case the covariance matrices were constructed from the same battery of subtests though for two separate populations. If the batteries of tests were different this dot product would be pointless. I know you wanted to do it but it seems you did not know that the dot product happens to be equal to the correlation and only by knowing it one would know how to interpret the angle between the vectors. Angle A between vectors itself has no meaning unless you know that cos(A)=correlation and correlation translates to variance explained. Without this knowledge would you say that A=5° is good enough while A=10° is not good enough? On what bases?

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Johan Meyer
  372. @utu

    Another ghost-authored book is From Time Immemorial (pseudo-Joan Peters). Its references are generally either entirely fraudulent or unrepresentative of what they cite. Would you make a similar claim for Murray and Herrnstein? If so, please supply a reference.

  373. @utu

    Correlation of eigenvectors? Correlation of subtest dependences (n=number of subtests, hence utter dubiousness of correlation interpretation)?

    No, what I seek to find is how the dependence of the bulk of the variation in IQ, i.e. how the dependence of the bulk of the variation in the first principle component, depends on IQ. If it fluctuates violently between subtest scores, then the first principal component is likely not dependent on specific processes in the brain. If it varies smoothly (think of a vector unit weighted in each subtest scores as the directional derivative of IQ, and the eigenvector as the directional derivative of first principal component), then g’ (1st principal component) is a more or less smooth function of IQ, and likely has a small number of fundamental biological causes, while violent variation suggests multiple small causes acting in near opposition.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @utu
  374. @Johan Meyer

    Gradient, not directional derivative.

  375. @FKA Max

    Continue to build these hypotheses, but try to think also of how they may legitimately falsified, i.e. think of what discoveries would tend to show them to be false. Once you start doing that, your hypotheses will become much more refined, as you will notice more logical problems in others’ thinking.

    • Replies: @FKA Max
  376. utu says:
    @utu

    Good stuff on Charle Murray here:

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/01/project-s-h-a-m-e-the-recovered-history-of-charles-murray.html

    Even if only half of it is true it is damning.

    The Bell Curve was also made possible by the generous support of ultra-rightwing foundations, including the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation which dished out $100,000 per year as he worked on his book at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, Murray’s home since the early 1990s.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  377. @utu

    The dot product of mean-subtracted, standard deviation normalised vectors produces a correlation—that much is obvious from writing out the dot product—the denominator is common, and I realised that during first year of undergrad. It is just that the notion of interpreting the dot product of eigenvectors, of principal components or in any other application, as correlations, especially when no statistical purpose is possible nor desired, strikes me as perverse.

    • Replies: @utu
  378. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    I can see that you are in the early stage of brain storming. Clearly you have some ideas as well as some some idee fix. Try to write it down with formulas. That’s the best way to find out you are not fooling yourself. You will have to spell out what “fluctuates violently between subtest scores” really mean. Or when trying to verify if “g is a more or less smooth function of IQ” how will you cope with the fact that g and IQ usually correlate at 80% (loading) so there will be come scatter if you plot g vs IQ. Will it be straight line? Or will the amplitude of the scatter depend on IQ? And how ill you generate g. One global for all IQ sets or will you break down data in subsets of IQ subranges and then do PCA in each subrange?

    Correlation of eigenvectors? Correlation of subtest dependences (n=number of subtests, hence utter dubiousness of correlation interpretation)?

    Why are you so obstinate? Open you mind and get over it. The best would be as always instead of reading books trying to figure it out by yourself. Say you have n random variables X1,…,Xn. Each variables is know at k values (scores). Find new n variables Y1,…,Yn such that correlations between Yi and Yj when i≠j is zero that Xi=ai1*Y1+…+ain*Yn. How to find the matrix A=(aij)? This is how the problem of PCA is formulated. Now from this show how it gets you to do decomposing of covariance matrix into eigenvectors and how eigenvectors are related to the matrix of coefficients A? If you do it once both the statistical formulation and algebraic presentation will merge into one and you will cease to have fits about the correlation and the dot products.

  379. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    no statistical purpose is possible nor desired, strikes me as perverse.

    Did you forgot why are you doing it for? The problem is of statistical nature. It is all about correlations. Say, correlation of IQ and RT? Eigenvalues and eigenvectors just come in to it as tools for the solution. Nobody really cares about eigenvectors but they do care about correlations. The covariance is the metrics that defines the Hilbert space of the problem. The covariance of normalized data happens to be a classical dot product in a Cartesian space. That’s why the dot product = correlation in this problem.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  380. @utu

    Let all of it be true. The obsession with number of babies of welfare dependent mothers reflects two problems common in society, namely the mental inability to apply Poisson statistics given the total fertility rate, and the tendency toward teen pregnancy and adult accidental pregnancy. The lead paint clean-up started in 1992 in the US; 17 years later is 2009. Since 2009, the black teen pregnancy rate in New York has dropped by half; I suspect that if you were to find data for elsewhere in the US, you’d find similar results.

    Vicious attitudes toward those on welfare, as well as racial animus hardly make him exceptional.

    Compare Murray to David Irving (Hitler enthusiast). Actual legitimate scholars of WWII including those investigating the destruction of the European Jews, praised Irving’s research, even when they strongly disagreed with and even condemned his methods and conclusions. Cases in point: Trevor-Roper, AJP Taylor, Peter Hoffman, John Charmley, John Keegan, Gordon Craig.

    But more to the point, what about Herrnstein? After all, he had the relevant background, rather than Murray, and thus he would have supplied most of the substance, which is what should be the question with regards to the Bell Curve.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @CanSpeccy
  381. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    But more to the point, what about Herrnstein? After all, he had the relevant background, rather than Murray, and thus he would have supplied most of the substance

    I suspect this was the case. The book had to be scientifically sound and that was probably Herrnstein’s job. But the animus to write it was political and it came from Murray and his handlers, I think.

  382. @utu

    Any real world problem will contain a statistical aspect, but the statistical interpretation part of the problem is complete prior to my dot product, *hence* my utter aversion to interpreting the dot product in statistical terms and *hence* my application of approximation of vector calculus. Is it really that difficult, is it dotage or is it dishonesty on your part?

    • Replies: @utu
  383. FKA Max says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Thank you very much, Mr. Meyer, I will do that in the future and just actually did this, here:

    “Maybe there is some hope though for America… or these positive trends might just be the result of credential/degree inflation?

    Childlessness Up Among All Women; Down Among Women with Advanced Degrees” – http://www.unz.com/jthompson/intelligence-and-general-knowledge-your-starter-for-10/#comment-1836076

    The comment exchange with you has been most fruitful and productive.

    Thanks again!

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  384. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    As in any movements there are real actors and useful dupes. One needs to identify the real actors. One needs to follow the money. Who pays for this junk science? To what purpose?

    Perhaps I am unduly naive, but I assume that most of the people in the IQ business think it useful work. Their problem is that they don’t have good models of the brain and are thus easily side-tracked by chimeras. It is, after all, not much more than a 100 years since people believed in vital force, and not much more than 50 years since people believed in psychoanalysis. In comparison, producing data from squiggle-matching tests, looks like hard science.

    As the 20th century advanced and enormous progress was made in other fields such as biochemistry and physics, psychologists sought to emulate their colleagues in these more productive sciences by putting their discipline onto a sound empirical footing. However, they had only the most limited means to observe what actually happens in brains and no ideas really of how a brain works. Thus many of them sought to explain everything on the basis of operant conditioning, dismissing entirely self-reported mental experience. Thus it was only with the development by the engineers of guided nuclear missiles that the psychologists were ready to concede that humans, and perhaps other animals too, are goal-seeking, as everyone but a behavioral psychologist already knew.

    As the software engineers make further progress with artificial intelligence, the psychologists will follow on behind. They will discover that the brain is not just one glob of neurons that processes everything with equal efficiency, but that the brain is modular and that not all modules are necessarily of equal effectiveness, either in size, architecture, or conditioning. Then will be acknowledged, what is plain for all to see, that people are not generally equally competent in every area of mental performance, including all those things like judgement; creativity — musical, artistic, scientific or mathematical; empathy; mimicry; and much else beside.

    As for the followers, I think their enthusiasm derives from the belief that their actual or imagined high IQ is a mark of natural aristocracy that warrants and justifies privilege. That is not to deny that those with high IQ’s are undoubtedly good at doing IQ tests and other things that employ the same skills. But it does not means that because someone has a high IQ they will necessarily have the judgement, creativity, empathy and much else beside that makes humans successful, popular, happy or wise.

  385. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    Vicious attitudes toward those on welfare, as well as racial animus hardly make him exceptional.

    Not sure what you call a vicious attitude, but I don’t agree that there is anything necessarily vicious in proposing reform of a welfare system that makes having babies at public expense a rational option for women at the bottom end of the socio-economic spectrum.

    Prior to the industrial revolution, the wealthy raised more children that survived to maturity than the poor, for obvious reasons. The result was that the rich were always downward mobile, their excess of surviving progeny making up for the reproductive deficiency of those of lower socio-economic status. This made for a coherent society in which the rich had poor relatives and the poor had rich relatives and thus all saw themselves as of one community.

    The industrial revolution, and with it the revolution in agricultural technique, alleviated poverty to a degree sufficient to allow the working class to multiply rapidly. This was accepted by the elite because additional labor was required to work the fast growing industrial machine. However, the relation of kinship between upper and lower classes was broken. Hence Disraeli’s two nations that hate one another: the rich and the poor.

    A revision to welfare and taxation systems to once again ensure higher fertility among those of the higher socio-economic strata is needed to restore the old population dynamic. Without it, we will not only see a continued decline in the quality of human capital, but the destruction of the ties that bind society as one family.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  386. @FKA Max

    The pleasure was mine—it seems it is much easier to have respectful and fruitful discussions with people with whom one has very large philosophical disagreements than people with whom one nearly agrees. It reminds me of a joke

  387. utu says:
    @Johan Meyer

    Dotage or dishonesty? Really? It seems that you do not understand. You aversions and dislikes are just signs of your ignorance. There is no room for aversions or dislikes in mathematics. I did my best but I failed and my efforts unfortunately awoke a little jerk in you. I am sorry. Good luck.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  388. @utu

    Dishonesty and trolling then. Seeing as the eigenvector of the first principal component is roughly its secant gradient, and seeing as you pulled this stunt of tens of comments distraction, I take it that you understood well enough and were trolling. Congratulations on having trolled me this long.

  389. @CanSpeccy

    Well, I am an old leftie, and I’d like it if the rich could steal less, especially from abroad. But then they’d either have to steal their poor relatives blind, or cease to be rich. It is the usual accounting problem that resurfaces with people who make that argument, both in terms of origin of wealth, and in terms of retaining genetic variability intraethnically. Which also suggests that the poor did have children—not nearly enough old world inbreeding to match your claim—which member of the gentry would willingly become part of the serf class during feudal regimes, or give up their priviliges thereafter? In reality, most of the last 500 years, the elite have been getting rid of their excess off-spring by giving them an allowance, and sending them especially to North America (remittance men), so that should an older sibling not survive, the remittance man could return and take the aristocratic title.

  390. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    I’d like it if the rich could steal less, especially from abroad.

    Well of course I am not advocating theft by anyone of anything from anywhere.

    But then they’d either have to steal their poor relatives blind, or cease to be rich.

    Um, well you may know something about statistics, but you are evidently an economic ignoramus. In general, in a competitive market economy, people who contribute more value gain more income. That is not theft, even if it is unfair in your view (are you in fact not just a leftie but a Commie?)

    It is the usual accounting problem that resurfaces with people who make that argument, both in terms of origin of wealth, and in terms of retaining genetic variability intraethnically.

    What the Heck is that about?

    Which also suggests that the poor did have children—not nearly enough old world inbreeding to match your claim

    And that. What does it mean? What the Heck are you talking about? I said nothing whatever about inbreeding. Actually, though, if you want to know, I’m rather in favor of it. It minimizes the genetic load.

    which member of the gentry would willingly become part of the serf class during feudal regimes, or give up their priviliges thereafter?

    I wasn’t talking of feudal regimes. I was actually quoting Adam Smith’s account of the relation between economic success and fertility. Smith, as you may know, or as an old leftie may not know, was perhaps the most famous advocate of a competitive free market economy.

    In reality, most of the last 500 years, the elite have been getting rid of their excess off-spring by giving them an allowance, and sending them especially to North America (remittance men), so that should an older sibling not survive, the remittance man could return and take the aristocratic title.

    Your history is a bit off. The United States did not exist 5oo years ago. Canada did not exist until a mere 150 years ago, and while we’re open to immigration, I’ve yet to meet a remittance man here in Canada.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  391. @CanSpeccy

    Your history is a bit off. The United States did not exist 5oo years ago. Canada did not exist until a mere 150 years ago, and while we’re open to immigration, I’ve yet to meet a remittance man here in Canada.

    The colonies don’t count? His majesty’s service and all that, except that the service would be paid out of royal coffers, cos money grows in royal coffers like potatoes, and is not obtained through taxation.

    Um, well you may know something about statistics, but you are evidently an economic ignoramus. In general, in a competitive market economy, people who contribute more value gain more income. That is not theft, even if it is unfair in your view (are you in fact not just a leftie but a Commie?)

    You say you are a Canuck. Interesting. So when your government leans heavily on third world governments (*cough* Ugly Canadian *cough* Canada in Africa *cough* Yves Engler *cough*), and obtains sweatheart deals for Canadian mining concerns, that’s free market, right? I’ll be so uncouth as to mention another Canuck, a French fellow from Thunder Bay Quebecois, with a serious attitude (albeit occasionally PC), namely Robin Philpot. Do I need to go into why Canada, USA, Britain and Belgium were arming the RPF since 1990? *Cough* Coltan *cough*. 5-10 million dead in DRC, and let’s be honest, it was mainly the Ugandan Tutsis that were killing, and mainly Rwandan Hutus and Burundian refugee Hutus in Rwanda that were killed. Another good Canuck, and an English Ontarian at that: Chris Black—any sore feelings about him destroying the official party line with regards to Ndindiliyimana? Remember, the fraudulent charges against him were part of the US/Canadian state free market program to get Congo-Kinshasa minerals on the cheap. But then again, your foreign exchange position would just not be all that comfortable otherwise, would it?

    The same considerations apply to the US, h/t Iranian students who pieced together the embassy documents.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  392. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    You say you are a Canuck. Interesting. So when your government …

    You think I’m responsible for what that twat Trudeau and his grand-daughter-of-a-Nazi foreign minister do? LOL.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Johan Meyer
  393. @CanSpeccy

    This business of the Congolese minerals started in 1990, took five years and a genocide (you blame the victims and make them into the perpetrators) to kick off, and relates especially to Canadian operative, Romeo Dallaire, who initially was quite frank about his activities; the sob cover story (warning about a genocide) was only ghost authored on his behalf much later. Trudeau Jnr was probably just out of high school. I should also mention—while Canadian and other business pays for those Congolese minerals (at much reduced price, given the above) they pay Rwanda, and buy the Congolese minerals in Kigali. I believe the legal term of art is trade in stolen property. It continues to the present, although Burundi is making it difficult, hence the ongoing efforts to get rid of the current government.

    The other funny Canadian governmental free market program that comes to mind, involves privatising governmental companies abroad, especially in poor countries. Bad as Nigeria’s state power company was at the time, under Canadian management (in the course of the privatisation program), it got worse. Eventually the Nigerian government renationalised the company, expropriating the Canadian company that had taken a large portion of the shares, namely Manitoba Hydro.

    Seeing as Nigeria had the most lead per liter petrol of any country, it should be rather interesting to see what happens in ten years, when the non-poisoned turn 21…

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  394. @CanSpeccy

    The other very interesting thing is that I mentioned these facts to mock your notion of a free market, not to assign any personal, ethnic or national population blame. You experience descriptions of how the world works as accusations. Even if that were valid, the numerous immigrants to Canada would also be party to the crime. But more relevantly, why such an interpretation? Was it because I referred to your (i.e. Canadian) foreign exchange position?

  395. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    This business of the Congolese minerals started in 1990, took five years and a genocide …

    Because I am a Smithite for competitive free markets, you seem to want me to argue in favor of wars for corporate rape and pillage. But obviously there is no connection.

    As for Canada’s settler state, all states are settler states if you go back far enough in history. We cannot unscramble eggs, or history, but we can, for the future, advocate the rule of law. We can also advocate for rational social policy that does not degrade the gene pool by enabling the most feckless and unproductive members of society to breed at public expense. And it seems that the advocacy of rational population policy is what outrages you.

  396. @CanSpeccy

    No, what outrages me is that you claim to be for something that empirically does not exist. The pillage of the Congo, for example, continues to the present. Smith was writing in the heyday of the colonial framework, itself based on pillage, yet he, like you, avoids substantial discussion, for reasons that are easy to fathom with a bit of algebra. But that will not change.

    By the way, what exactly is rational about inbreeding? If you are referring to purging of genetic load by extreme (such as sibling—sic) inbreeding, that requires successive population bottlenecks (mass culling) as well. It strikes me as foolish. Populations that practice hygeine against inbreeding, e.g. some Sudanese Nilo-Saharan speaking populations (last common ancestor must be at least 12 generations before) are much more vigorous.

  397. @CanSpeccy

    Although speaking of feckless and unproductive, though certainly wealthy, it is hard to think of more representative examples than the likes of those that pulled off the Rwanda, Ukraine and Haiti operations. But through their fecklessness and unproductiveness, that is, parasitism, they bring in wealth. Somehow, I cannot see you calling for their reproduction to be inhibited.

    By the way, if the “fecklessness” and “unproductiveness” is of genetic causation, why is it that your immigrants are said to be so industrious, yet their children so unproductive and feckless?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  398. @CanSpeccy

    I went and checked Smith—he discusses colonies, so I stand corrected. Initially his discussion is purely in terms of the development of the colonies, and most totally excludes the extraction of wealth, as I suspected and stated. His only discussion in the first half of such extraction (which gave value to British currency) is in terms of initiative of colonists.

    At one point, he jumps the shark, saying that Britain could get the produce of the colonies for cheaper without mercantilism. It is true in the short run, but then the colonies go on to manufactured goods, rather than “rude production,” which undermines British manufacture using colonial “rude production.” And the motivations of the Rwanda (Cobalt, Tantalum), Haiti (large oil field south of Haiti and Cuba), and Ukraine (fracking oil, and before your puppets ruined Ukraine’s industry, the know-how of the likes of YuzhMash) were either seizing rude production, or Five Eyes/Echelon-style industrial espionage.

    In the second half of his colonies chapter, he becomes a bit more honest, and looks at how to best manage colonial extraction:

    By raising the rate of mercantile profit, the monopoly discourages the improvement of land. The profit of improvement depends upon the difference between what the land actually produces, and what, by the application of a certain capital, it can be made to produce.

    So he too understood colonies as centres of extraction, but was concerned with *efficient* management of extraction.

  399. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    Although speaking of feckless and unproductive, though certainly wealthy, it is hard to think of more representative examples than the likes of those that pulled off the Rwanda, Ukraine and Haiti operations.

    High level criminality does not display a lack of initiative or strength of character, and cannot be equated with fecklessness.

    As for what may be said about “your immigrants”, let those who say it explain it.

    The irrefutable fact that you will say anything to refute is that most people strive for success, economic and otherwise, and some achieve greater success than others. The question then is this: do you want to populate the world with those whose characteristics enable them to achieve success in a civilized world where the rule of law obtains and free competitive markets dictate the distribution of income, or do you want to populate the world mainly with the descendants of those who, through the mediation of government, survive and raise children largely or entirely at the expense of others?

    But I suppose cannot expect you to respond except with some new irrelevance about Burundi-Ruanda, perhaps, or some additional criminal conspiracy by Canadians, who you seem to especially hate.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  400. @CanSpeccy

    The question then is this: do you want to populate the world with those whose characteristics enable them to achieve success in a civilized world where the rule of law obtains and free competitive markets dictate the distribution of income, or…

    But I suppose cannot expect you to respond except with some new irrelevance about Burundi-Ruanda, perhaps, or some additional criminal conspiracy by Canadians, who you seem to especially hate.

    So the fact of the absence of “the rule of law” and “free competitive markets” is an “irrelevance”. Good to know.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  401. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    So the fact of the absence of “the rule of law” and “free competitive markets” is an “irrelevance”.

    Irrelevant to the point I made and to which you objected? Yes.

    While we could probably agree that there is a moral obligation on those able to care for themselves to assist those who are unable to care for themselves, I reject your view that those who can care for themselves should be obliged, at the expense of their own ability to raise children, to enable those who cannot care for themselves to produce children for whom they are unable to care.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  402. @Johan Meyer

    I’m mot denying lead poisoning. I doubt it has been a shocking mega impact.

    Again, I think you are quite languid in the way you are making your statements.

    Start from the beginning.

    Do you think blacks are on avg more violent than whites, at least since XIX and I’m not talking about “violent in wars”? Do you believe or believed it is genetic? Races exist? Some populations are naturally smarter than others? Are you leftist, rightist,etc?

    Blacks also must need have a lot of miscarriages and babies with congenital defects as well a epidemiological evidence of lead poisoning via self reporting and medical reporting among afro communities.

    To the lead poisoning be so significant at the point to altere the behavior of many individuals of some population must be verified:

    Expected effects in generations as higher % of mental retardation as well other problematic mutations caused by lead poisoning, Large effects on violent behavior must be found in generalized way in other aspects.
    Well.

    There are some studies reporting higher % of brain injuries among criminal populations. What seems it’s not well demonstrated is that if this brain injuries are acquired or congenital or “congenital” in many cases.

    What do you think about higher violence of black men and less of black women. And the black men who live in this possibly or supposedly poisoned neighborhoods and no have any violent behavior nor ill health? Some blacks are more resistant to the lead poisoning?

    You are saying at it was what I’m understood is that this scenario is causal and generalized to cause violent behavior.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Johan Meyer
  403. @Johan Meyer

    If you have a causal link evidencing your claims ok.

    It’s something.

    I still believe that it’s a correlation + governmental asshollyness in the way elites and industrials have treated poor people.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
    , @Johan Meyer
  404. @Santoculto

    My hypothesis, which I want to see subjected to rigorous test, is that the excess black peace-time violence, and among North America blacks, the IQ deficiency, is due to lead poisoning.

    You and others have raised the concern of confounds (comment 132). To wit, it is possible that the statistical connection between lead poisoning and IQ deficiency, and lead poisoning and crime, are statistical artifacts, e.g. that the low IQ criminal population is of such a character due to genetic disposition, and is neglected, and thus subject to lead poisoning.

    My response to this concern, was comments 257 and 260 (which should be read as one comment). Perhaps those two comments were not clear. What I intend, is to create data sets (randomly generated individual blood lead, bone lead, SES, parental bone lead, parental age and unshown genetic IQ, with resultant IQ, parental IQ,) representing different ‘universes:’

    Universe 1-3: Criminal, low IQ population suffers neglect, and hence lead poisoning, but no additional IQ loss or criminality due to lead poisoning (thus connection to IQ and crime is an artifact); different lead poisoning regimes, but degree of poisoning a function of degree of IQ deficiency, which gives probability of criminality. Different correlations between parental and child poisoning for different sets.

    Universe 4-6: Genetically normally distributed (in terms of intelligence) population has low IQ and high criminality induced by lead poisoning, with different poisoning regimes; choose a dose response to produce data set. No connection between genetic IQ and crime, nor between genetic IQ and poisoning in these universes; they correspond to my hypothesis. Different correlations between parental and child poisoning for different sets.

    Universe 7-9: Genetically normally distributed (in terms of intelligence) population has poisoning proportional to prepoisoning genetic IQ, but there is additional IQ loss, and additional (or total—perhaps another 3 universes) criminality as a function of poisoning. These universes combine genetic and lead causation of violence. Different correlations between parental and child poisoning for different sets.

    Universe 10: Like 7-9, but with neighbourhood dependent correlation between child and parental sets.

    The data sets will be given as A-J, and it will be a challenge to lead poisoning researchers to identify, based on the individual measures of each data set, which of A-J correspond to which of 1-10.

    This exercise will determine which measurements are needed, and what analysis must be performed. At present, the question is open. Once the challenge is successfully met, researchers will know what data to gather.

  405. @Santoculto

    In response to your other concerns, I’ll respond here.

    The data is unambiguous. Blacks are more violent, and have lower IQ. The question is why. I think a proper study should try to discriminate between different causes, including genetics, lead poisoning, and whatever else is plausible. My bias is to suspect that it is entirely lead poisoning, but that may yet be disproven.

    Some populations are very clearly smarter than others. Again, one may ask why. At this point, the non-genetic biological confounds (e.g. lead, iodine, etc) are sufficiently poorly characterised that meaningful statistical conclusions about genetic contribution to inter-group difference is not possible. That is, more research is needed.

    As to my politics, I come from the left, but have become alienated from it. There is a general aversion to formal logical thinking, and a very tribalistic attitude; hence my presence on this right-leaning site, where I can have meaningful exchanges from time to time with people with whom I disagree, which is intellectually far more satisfying.

    As to miscarriages, that would be a concern during an era of leaded petrol/gasoline, and it should remain a concern in places where the water is contaminated with lead, e.g. due to lead water service pipe mismanagement (Flint, Michigan, for example). The lead poisoning due to paint is almost exclusively due to infant poisoning—infants crawl on the ground, get lead dust on their hands, and as normal play, put their fingers in their mouths; also, resuspended lead in soil will be more concentrated close to the ground than at standing level. Thus in general, at present, few cases of maternal lead poisoning should occur, thus few cases of lead induced miscarriage.

    Self-reporting (parental reporting) of lead poisoning is difficult except in extreme cases, as the majority of symptoms are non-specific, that is, other causes can give rise to the same symptoms. The standard epidemiological test is to check the concentration of lead in the blood. This test is valid if there is continuous poisoning (leaded petrol exhaust fallout or lead in the water). The test is largely invalid for sporadic poisoning; based on the math that I did that I linked to, e.g. in comment 103, and the NHANES III (post-leaded petrol phaseout), I believe that lead paint poisoning (of infants) is almost exclusively sporadic.

    In general, the research, epidemiologically problematic as it is, suggests that lead poisoning is more likely to make boys grow into violent men, than it is to make girls grow into violent women, for the same poisoning. I do not think that the lack of criminality of some blacks by itself is lack of evidence of poisoning. Rather, I hold that poisoning increases the probability of becoming a criminal. A better test is IQ.

    As to group dependence, I think the biggest issue for blacks is lactose intolerance, as milk products are generally rich in calcium, which displaces lead; lead is a calcium analogue.

  406. @CanSpeccy

    Your first objection was comment 398—you indicated your preference for higher fertility rates of the economically successful, as a means of ensuring social cohesion; your phrasing suggested that you’d like the poor not have children. You also suggest that having children at public expense is made into a rational option.

    I responded by pointing out (comment 402) that the wealth that the rich accumulate, is largely of a stolen character, with the theft achieved by state actors (comment), and suggest that without that theft, they would have much less to accumulate. I also attacked your notion that the rich were prolific reproducers. Actually, my argument was regarding the aristocracy, but it can be made much more strongly against the commercial class.

    You responded with comment 403, with the denial of large scale theft in the so-called free market world, and by citing Smith to the effect that a competitive, free market world leads to more reproduction by the economically successful.

    In comment 404, I listed large scale ongoing theft, contra your assertion in comment 403, accomplished with a fair bit of killing. Rather than acknowledge that your denial in 403 was false, you first insinuated that I was blaming you personally (405), and when I pointed out that that was false (and gave other examples of the fraudulence of the claimed status of theft-free free market, 406) and even spelled out the logic (407), you shifted the goal posts, from objecting to rational choice to have children at public expense for poor people yet not objecting to de facto same for rich people (398) to “rational population policy,” calling the poor feckless and unproductive, and the “turning the page” gambit (“for the future, advocate the rule of law,” without acknowledging that the theft is ongoing; comment 408).

    I responded by pointing out that the theft is ongoing (as well as attacked your bizarre genetic theories) in comment 409, pointed out the feckless and unproductive character of your preferred thieves, and within your framework of the feckless and unproductive poor, raised the question of genetic causation, which is the only rational consideration in preventing reproduction (comment 410). I also showed that Smith is not averse to colonial theft (411).

    You then claimed that high level criminality disproves fecklessness (grief, with all the early missed opportunities to install Kagame, and eventually having to resort to supplying him with a three month supply of battle field saturation weapons, well the competence speaks for itself), and again moved the goal posts, first (398) social cohesion, next avoiding fecklessness and unproductiveness (408) to having a population that would accord with the rule of law and a competitive free market environment (412), calling my attack on your previous position an “irrelevance”. I then called you on it (413).

    You then finally moved the goal posts once more, holding that public support for single mothers, at the expense of the rest of society to raise children, is objectionable (414).

    Very well, it is. The question then arises, to what extent such public support imperils that ability. Do you suggest that taxation imperils the ability to raise one’s own children? Debt is a far more likely candidate.

    As to the true moral question, namely whether in fact one is allowing children to be born who can be productive members of society, I hold that that is happening, at least in the US, due to the early 90s clean-up of leaded paint, resulting in a massive drop in teen pregnancy. See for example the statistical year books of New York City, available online, from 2009 to the present—I refer to the black population, which would have the per capita highest usage of welfare services, although I suspect the same holds for other groups. Having supported these mothers means greater population genetic diversity (no population bottleneck), and this investment (the clean-up was likely much more expensive than the welfare) will bring returns shortly. Another source is HeyJackass—enter their weekend age shooting and death data into a spreadsheet, with a column for date over the last three years, then prepare a histogram for age of victim by year—fewer shootings of the young, which suggests that the young are less likely to get involved in gangs.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  407. @Santoculto

    The major causal link thus far, other than the drop (reversed the last year and a half) of murder rates during the 90s and 2000s in the US (phaseout of leaded petrol in the 70s), is the drop of teen pregnancy (also associated with low IQ) amongst US blacks (New York City statistical data—if the link fails, look for “Summary of Vital Statistics,” and in those, look for teen pregnancy by mother’s ethnic/racial background) and others, since 2009 (the law mandating a cleanup of lead paint is from 1992).

    I do not accept the “sex ed reduced teen pregnancy” claim, as sexual education was present both during the rise and the fall of teen pregnancy.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  408. Yeah, the idea that rich parasites should reproduce and the working people shouldn’t seems like the apotheosis of this whole ‘genetics determine all traits’ bs. The parasite, brainwashed by his own propaganda, is dreaming of killing its host. I must say, this is highly amusing.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  409. @Santoculto

    Here is a paper that uses K-edge subtraction bone imaging, to compare delinquent and non-delinquent youth. Another paper goes into the effects on children in detail, and explains on a molecular and teratogenic level the effects on embryos and infants. Both papers are by Needleman, and he makes the same argument (in less mathematical terms) that I make, namely that blood lead is inappropriate for paint poisoning.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  410. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Johan Meyer

    Spew as much squid ink as you want, Johan, it won’t alter the fact that raising children on welfare is state enabled parasitism. Moreover, the people who pay aren’t, as you repeatedly assert, the monsters of international crime, but mostly middle-income tax payers.

    Anyhow, as an old Commie, you should be backing the international gangsters, they’re the globalists, they, like the Communists, want a world-spanning tyanny under which dissenters will be shot on the spot, to use one of Lenin’s favorite expressions.

    And it seems racist of you to focus so much on black people producing babies at public expense. I’m sure there are plenty of people of all colors doing that in New York, including Jews apparently.

    But if you want a society of incompetent and irresponsible people, by all means make those who are competent and responsible pay for the reproduction of those who are neither competent nor responsible.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  411. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Mao Cheng Ji

    I understand, Mao, as the bearer of a famous Communist name, you may feel a need to stand by a fellow Bolshevik, but do try to be logical. Working people are not parasites, and rich parasites, people like Bernie Madoff, pay not tax. It’s the honest working people whosupport the parasites both at the top and the bottom of the social pyramid.

    That utu agrees with you, raises a question about his logic circuits too.

  412. @Johan Meyer

    A correction—they use K-edge fluorescence imaging, rather than K-edge subtraction imaging. Their method is superior, as it is much cheaper and simpler to implement, and will result in a much lower dose to the patient being imaged, than K-edge subtraction imaging.

  413. @CanSpeccy

    Spew as much squid ink as you want, Johan, it won’t alter the fact that raising children on welfare is state enabled parasitism. Moreover, the people who pay aren’t, as you repeatedly assert, the monsters of international crime, but mostly middle-income tax payers.

    Sure, but the parasitism is by scientific appearance due to lead poisoning; you object to those forced into that parasitism being allowed to have non-parasitic offspring.

    Anyhow, as an old Commie, you should be backing the international gangsters, they’re the globalists, they, like the Communists, want a world-spanning tyanny under which dissenters will be shot on the spot, to use one of Lenin’s favorite expressions.

    Try anarchist. When the allies during WWI (USA, Britain, Japan and company) invaded Russia, and massacred left right and centre, putting the Bolsheviks to shame, anarchists in Siberia and Ukraine were holding them and their proxies off. Trotsky was playing the adventurer, costing Russia Galitsia, and Frunze was busy betraying the anarchists. Though I do hold that Trotsky killed Frunze, as Frunze was at least militarily competent; Stalin was a bureaucratic empire builder. But to be fair, anarchists have been suborned by the likes of Soros the last twenty five or so years.

    Your second last paragraph is sufficiently confused as to be incoherent, so I’ll focus on your last. As I showed on this thread, it is with great probability that the incompetent are incompetent due to environment, put in place by a subsection of those that you deem competent (paint/chemical industry); as the damage by the latter (in the US) has largely been resolved, the incompetence of the incompetent appears to no longer be (as strongly—some of the lead painted structures remain—foolishness of blood lead level as poisoning proxy) transmitted to their offspring. As such, it is not the incompetence to which you object, but the fact that poor people, forced into incompetence and parasitism, are allowed to reproduce. Thanks for that confession—such honesty is rare.

  414. @Johan Meyer

    http://www.naturalnews.com/053750_Flint_Michigan_felony_conspiracy_water_quality_managers.html

    I was reading this link and I note a anti white narrative clearly as if “white people are doing it”. If it is true ok but the anti white agenda/ deliberated plan to eliminate white people via mass immigration, purposeful reduction of fertility and anti white indoctrination in media and academia show us that one of the biggest victims of bad powerful people are regular whites. It’s don’t smell well…

    What I said I no have knowledge, nor motivation nor specialized capacity to infer any thing more interesting about this subject. So I’m trying to look for what seems don’t make sense, for example the disproportional % of black men who become criminal than black women. Black women commit crimes at the same rates than white men. Based on generalized poisoning, blacks everywhere, in USA, to start, must have symptoms and generalized violent behavior also among women (??). So, men are more vulnerable to poisoning than women?

    Unfortunately mister Meyer, there are a lot of fake scientists using science to manipulate people. Black criminality is not a American phenomenon. Everywhere they are there is a disproportional rate of criminality committed by them. And this phenomenon seems is not restricted to the industrial era. I promise when I have time I will read your links. Europeans gypsies has been poisoned too?? They share a lot of similarities with black under classes.

    You claims a correlation between supposed reduction of black criminality or arresting since lead poisoning has been reduced, is this?

    Again

    If you already investigated other variables or possibilities to explain it ok. If not, do it bearing in mind the gradual elimination of this possibilities before to jump too faster to this hypothesis.

    • Replies: @Johan Meyer
  415. @Santoculto

    What is funniest about that piece is that the author is white—probably self hating.

    The poisoning was purely because incompetent people were put in charge, and they put acidic water through the pipes, which removed the passivation layer that prevented lead from leeching from the pipes into the water. The broader problem is that the US’s infrastructure is in free fall. Keep in mind that about half of the very lead poisoned population in the US is white, and scapegoats will be sought. That website has a hatred for Dr Gorski, and his connection is that he lives in the same city where the laboratory fraud was perpetrated—he had no connection to the poisoning. That website is somewhat flaky, to say the least.

    As to gypsies, I do not know in general, though certainly in KLA run Kosovo; see this anti-Serb biased article. The only other article that I could find was this one

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