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I do not have a dog in the fight about dogs. My dad said that there was a dog in every boy’s life, and so we had some dogs when I was young, and then in my own life, no dogs. I was living a town life, and working, and had neither need nor wish for them. I have nothing against dogs, other than that they should live in the country, not the town, and preferably do something useful. In towns they are captive and, when badly trained, frequently a nuisance. In the country, so long as they are not worrying sheep, they are more agreeable company.

I can see that dogs have very probably evolved with us, in a symbiotic relationship. They know how to flatter us, in return for food and companionship. Parasitism it may be, but it works for many people, and virtually all dogs. Dogs and their owners are reciprocally besotted.

Frankly, I doubted owner’s stories about the intelligence of their pooches. We are creatures of habit, and dogs learn from observation how we are to be handled. So, it was with some initial hesitation that I looked at the research on canine intelligence, and then came to see that, after due allowance for restrictions on which tests which could be used, there was a case for comparing the intelligence of dogs and of dog breeds. The fact that the clever breed were sheep dogs pleased me. We all have to earn our keep.

Here is Rosalind Arden on the intelligence of dogs:

http://www.unz.com/jthompson/dognitive-ability-in-university-level/

The other thing about dogs, is that they live shorter lives, so their generation pass more quickly, and can be observed as they evolve. Even more important, they can be bred through a selective process into different sorts, for different purposes. Assisted evolution in action. Hence, we can look at these close companions and make judgments about how characteristics and behaviours alter through evolution. We can even tamper so as to breed up dogs for our uses. Guide dogs, for example. Practically, dogs that can detect when we are about to have a fit. Perhaps even dogs that can detect our diseases before any other detection device can do so.

What can we find out from genetic analyses of dog behaviour and dog breeds?

Highly Heritable and Functionally Relevant Breed Differences in Dog Behavior
Authors: Evan L MacLean, Noah Snyder-Mackler, Bridgett M. von Holdt & James A.
Serpell

* Correspondence to: [email protected] & [email protected]

http://dx.doi.org/10.1101/509315

Below I show the abstract verbatim, and have selected and abbridged the main points of the paper.

Abstract: Variation across dog breeds presents a unique opportunity for investigating the evolution and biological basis of complex behavioral traits. We integrated behavioral data from more than 17,000 dogs from 101 breeds with breed-averaged genotypic data (N = 5,697 dogs) from over 100,000 loci in the dog genome. Across 14 traits, we found that breed differences in behavior are highly heritable, and that clustering of breeds based on behavior accurately recapitulates genetic relationships. We identify 131 single nucleotide polymorphisms associated with breed differences in behavior, which are found in genes that are highly expressed in the brain and enriched for neurobiological functions and developmental processes. Our results provide insight into the heritability and genetic architecture of complex behavioral traits, and suggest that dogs provide a powerful model for these questions.

Studying aggression, fear, trainability, attachment, and predatory chasing behaviors on 14,020 individual dogs with breed-level genetic identity-by-state estimates from two independent studies we found that a large proportion of variance in dog behavior is attributable to genetic factors. The mean heritability was 0.51 ± 0.12 (SD) across all 14 traits (range: h 2 0.27-0.77), and significantly higher than the null expectation in all cases (permutation tests, p < 0.001).

Interestingly, the traits with the highest heritability were trainability (h 2= 0.73), stranger-directed aggression (h 2 = 0.68), chasing (h 2 = 0.62) and attachment and attention seeking (h 2 = 0.56), which is consistent with the hypothesis that these behaviors have been important targets of selection during the cultivation of modern breeds.

Overall, we identified 131 unique SNPs that were significantly associated with at least one of the 14 behavioral traits (Bonferroni p ≤ 0.05, Fig 2). Forty percent of these SNPs (n= 52) were located within a gene – none of which encoded for changes in the amino acid sequence of the protein. On average, the top SNP explained 15% of variance in the behavioral trait. Thus, while we identify multiple variants with moderately large effects, the variance explained by individual SNPs is far less than that explained by additive variation across the genome (heritability), suggesting that as in humans, behavioral traits in dogs are highly polygenic. However, the variance explained by the top SNPs in our analysis across breeds was, on average, more than 5 times higher than that from within-breed association studies.

Many of the gene-level associations with dog behavioral traits include (i) candidate domestication genes, (ii) genes mapped to phenotypes implicated in domestication, (iii) genes implicated in behavioral differences between foxes bred for tameness or aggression, and (iv) genes that underwent positive selection in both human evolution and dog domestication. For example, PDE7B, which is differentially expressed in the brains of tame and aggressive foxes has been identified as a target of selection during domestication, and is highly expressed in the brain where it functions in dopaminergic pathways. In our analyses, SNPs in this gene were associated with breed differences in aggression, which is consistent with data from experimentally bred foxes, as well as hypotheses that selection against aggression was the primary evolutionary pressure during initial domestication events.

The gene-trait associations identified in our study also align closely with similar associations in human populations. For example, breed differences in aggression are associated with multiple genes that have been linked to aggressive behavior in humans. Molecular associations with breed differences in energy include genes previously linked to resting heart rate, daytime rest, and sleep duration in humans. Lastly, breed differences in fear were associated with genes linked with temperament and startle response in humans, and several of the genes implicated in breed differences in trainability have been previously associated with intelligence and information processing speed in humans.

If the variants in genes identified in our analyses make major contributions to behaviour and cognition, then the associated genes should be (i) involved in biological processes related to nervous system development and function, and (ii) primarily expressed in the brain. Indeed, we found that behavior-associated genes (as identified through meta-analysis) were enriched for numerous nervous system processes. These processes include neurogenesis, neuron migration and differentiation, axon and dendrite development, and regulation of neurotransmitter transport and release.

Breed differences in behavior covary strongly with relatedness between breeds, and for several traits, genotype accounts for more than 50% of behavioral variation across breeds – up to 25x higher than heritability estimates from genetic studies within breeds. Individual SNPs that are associated with behaviors tend to fall in genes that are disproportionately expressed in the brain, and are involved in pathways related to the development and expression of behavior and cognition. In addition, the variants associated with breed differences in behavior are found in genes with sequence or brain-expression differences in foxes artificially bred for tameness or aggression, and are implicated in human behavioral genetics, suggesting that these genes may play important roles in modulating behaviour across species.

You might like to compare these assessments with numbers of humans killed by dogs in the US. As you can see, the rates differ considerably. There are a longer list of breeds at the bottom of the table I have not included for brevity because they all killed one person, but the top killers are shown here.

We are different from dogs, but it appears that some genes in dogs and some genes in humans have the same functions, and affect the brain in the same way. We are closer to our hounds than we imagined. One could say that there is a Great Chain of Being, though this one brings us closer to animals than angels.

Of course, dogs are dogs and not humans. There have been population bottlenecks which simplify their genetic architecture. Dogs do not have a culture in the normal sense of that word, so cannot transfer libraries of knowledge nor be influenced by editorials in the New York Times. However, it is thought-provoking that dog breeds differ in their behaviours in ways that can be traced to their genetics, and as in the case of homo sapiens, those genes express themselves in brain. Some dogs breeds bite us more than others for non-cultural reasons.

The implications are clear: in a species which we can to some extent control, and which partly controls some of us, we see a similar genetic pattern, and a genes based difference in behaviour between breeds.

 
• Category: Science • Tags: Dogs, Intelligence 
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  1. Polynices says:

    How could this be? I had been reassured by our great thinkers that dog breeds are just a social construct.

  2. res says:

    Interesting. Thanks.

    This excerpt might be a clue to the differences in the relative magnitude of within/between race genetic contribution to human traits.

    Breed differences in behavior covary strongly with relatedness between breeds, and for several traits, genotype accounts for more than 50% of behavioral variation across breeds – up to 25x higher than heritability estimates from genetic studies within breeds.

    Did the researchers evaluate whether there was any correspondence between the dog and human SNPs they found? I did not see anything like that in my skim of the paper. Not sure how to think about human/dog genetic distance, but these links look like starting points:
    https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/dog-vs-human-dna
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1761043/

    I wonder if the researchers have done a PCA analysis of their data. It would be interesting to see that. Here is an example (notice that the first two PCs account for 42% of variance!): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283049690_Genetic_structure_in_village_dogs_reveals_a_Central_Asian_domestication_origin

    The paper title is a good summary of their conclusion: Genetic structure in village dogs reveals a Central Asian domestication origin

    P.S. There are issues with interpreting the dog breed fatality data (e.g. misidentification, relative prevalence of breeds). If Twinkie reads this maybe he will comment. For anyone interested, search his comments for similar discussions.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  3. Canines are parasites. Even worse, their parasitical nature leads humans, emotionally immature humans, to believe they are capable of complex emotions like love. Don’t feed the parasite for twenty-four hours and see how much your doggy wuvs you. I’ve noticed that extreme doggy wuvers tend to treat the humans in their lives like shit.

  4. curri says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    What makes you think “love” is a complex emotion? Did someone who works in Hollywood tell you that? Maybe they were lying to you.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    , @Anonymous
  5. There’s only one breed — the canine breed!

    We must stop the hate. And we cannot do that if we continue to promote this myopic focus on the social construct of “breed.”

    Every educated dog knows that the apparent differences in crime rates between different “breeds” are merely a result of poverty, systemic breedism, bad kennels, and centuries of pit abuse by more privileged canines.

    Not to mention the interlocking matrix of pit oppression that results from the terrible legacy of domestication.

    And do I even need to mention the malign effects of stereotype threat and breedal profiling?

    By reinforcing these outdated breedist stereotypes and marginalizing the pit standpoint, Mr. Thompson is promoting long-discredited retriever supremacist canards and slowing the progress of more enlightened dogkind as they move forward together toward the goal of a more equitable and just community. He needs to check his retriever privilege. He is a roadblock in the path to greater canine diversity and inclusion.

    Wow, just wow. I can’t even. Very problematic in the current year.

  6. Realist says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Canines are parasites. Even worse, their parasitical nature leads humans, emotionally immature humans, to believe they are capable of complex emotions like love. Don’t feed the parasite for twenty-four hours and see how much your doggy wuvs you. I’ve noticed that extreme doggy wuvers tend to treat the humans in their lives like shit.

    You’ve been in the sun too long.

  7. @res

    There are issues with interpreting the dog breed fatality data (e.g. misidentification, relative prevalence of breeds.

    According to the chart, one poor person was killed by a chihuahua.

  8. @Realist

    Canines are parasites.

    I disagree. People voluntarily keep them for a reason. In the old days it was more utilitarian — protection, hunting, herding.

    But they have coevolved along the way to provide us with companionship, affectionate, and entertainment.

    So I’d say they are evolved symbiotes.

    Cats on the other hand . . .

  9. @James Forrestal

    Golden Retrievers get to live in the suburbs and receive better education in expensive obediance schools.

    Pit Bulls tend to live in urban areas with fewer eduational opportunites. They are socialized poorly growing up. So it’s no wonder Pit Bull culture is more violent.

    • LOL: The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    , @renfro
  10. unit472 says:

    Nice to have the data backing up what was obvious by observation but I remember looking into this maybe 20 years ago. What I learned then was that dogs, like humans, have a lot of what was then called “junk” DNA. SNPs that seemed to have no purpose but did , apparently, allow for the extreme variation we see in canines.

  11. Factorize says:

    Dog Cognitive Singularity Event? Dogs have a 2 year breeding cycle; there are 500 million of them worldwide; and their higher intelligence would have functional relevance in allowing them to be better caregivers for humans. They exhibit a g factor and their IQ is polygenically determined. Further, the recent origin of dog breeds implies that finding functional SNPs for their intelligence might be much easier than those of humans. Very large increases in canine IQ over a short time frame should not be dismissed without contemplation. The hypothesis that the world is going to the dogs might soon be all too self-apparent.

  12. Realist says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Hey dumb ass you replied to the wrong comment.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
  13. On the other hand…

    Within limits, dog behavior is very noticeably affected by the expectations of their owners.

    I remember about forty years ago Doberman Pinschers became popular among young urban blacks; those dogs were extremely aggressive.

    That fashion passed off, and while I’d still approach a Doberman with considerably more caution than I would a Laborador Retriever, these days they seem to be pretty well-behaved dogs as a rule.

    Conversely, respectable middle-aged white women in urban areas sometimes get Pit Bulls; they are a gilt-edged assurance of personal safety. Whatever other Pit Bulls may be like, those Pit Bulls seem to be perfectly sweet, friendly doggies — albeit one that could take your arm off at the elbow.

    The moral here would seem to be that while we can’t make a sow’s ear into a silk purse, perhaps with appropriate training and handling a dysfunctional human population could be brought to a better standard of behavior. The possibilities offered by actual breeding I’ll leave aside for now.

    • Replies: @curri
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    , @Mike
  14. j2 says:

    Dogs have a smaller brain than wolfs from which they have been bred, and they also are less intelligent in understanding cause and effect (that is, understanding something, not being taught to know the correct answer and parroting it). As a conclusion, breeding does not increase intelligence, it decreases it. So humans used to be more intelligent, but then the development of higher culture has made them less intelligent. What those IQ related SNPs measure in humans may be trainability, not intelligence. We find the smartest people from places where the civilization came last, that is the north.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  15. curri says:
    @Colin Wright

    I think what happened was that the more aggressive male Dobes stopped being used as studs. More bluntly, the more aggressive pups in a litter got the needle. The last Dobe I saw in the street (about six years ago) I let mouth my hand and play with my Siberian Husky off leash. Sibes notoriously see all dogs and humans as their friends, even though they have a strong prey drive when it comes to birds and small animals. My current dog is a Lab, and is actually quite cautious/suspicious in a non-aggressive way towards strange dogs and humans in the street. It’s easy to understand the divergent behavior of Sibes and Labs when you realize the Siberians were developed from stock used by Arctic tribal villagers.

  16. @SunBakedSuburb

    “Don’t feed the parasite for twenty-four hours and see how much your doggy wuvs you.”

    Alternatively, lock the dog in your car boot/trunk for 4 hours and see how pleased he is to see you when you open it again. As a control, try the same thing with your significant other.

    A lot of that death table is down to the power of the dog, also the numbers – Irish wolfhounds and Rhodesian Ridgebacks are big tough things but quite rare. Some little terriers are aggressive, but are only dangerous to rats and rabbits. I’d back myself against a lab, but a pit bull or rottie wouldn’t be very nice – huge jaw strength.

    I imagine some of those deaths by collie and chihuahua are of infants or young children.

    While on the subject of the Power Of The Dog, Kipling’s poem of the same name. Dogs are a bit like children – you don’t see what all the fuss is about til you have one of your own.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    , @Johann
  17. @Realist

    And you’re a victim of the non-stop doggy wuv propaganda spewing forth from the liberal/corporate media. THEY want you drooling over and speaking baby-talk to these filthy, obnoxious parasites. Wake up before it’s too late!

  18. @YetAnotherAnon

    Your approach to the Canine problem is far too kind and literate. To me it is a question of the method of disposal.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  19. @Realist

    Your belligerent response to Hypnotoad666 is proof that your doggy wuv has led you to a dark place. THEY have you in their grip, my friend.

    • LOL: Ilyana_Rozumova
    • Troll: Biff
  20. @curri

    Is it “love” or “wuv”? I am still trying to figure out if dogs are agents of the devil, or an alien plot to reduce human intelligence. Either way, these disgusting creatures are ruination.

    • Replies: @curri
    , @Stan d Mute
  21. @Colin Wright

    ” … respectable middle-aged white women in urban areas …”

    Whatever happened to the crazy cat ladies? There is nothing creepier than a woman dog-fancier.

  22. anarchyst says:
    @Polynices

    Even Cassius Clay (Muhammed Ali) KNEW that there are profound differences between blacks and whites and stated as such in an interview. He used the example of dog breeds, stating that while it was possible for a chihuahua and german shepherd to breed, it would be extremely difficult to do so. Although both breeds are dogs, there are major differences. The interview is available on youtube…

    • Replies: @Anon
  23. My first speech on the subject was called, A veterinarian Gone to the dogs, you can probably find it on the Internet. I meant by that in a sarcastic way, that I had given up practicing as a veterinarian for a variety of reasons you can find on my bilingual google-censored blog.

    As for the genetic origin of behaviour in dogs, I have recently published a variety of articles on the subject.

    Cultural marxist and liberal ideas on race, behaviour and egalitarianism are literally copy-pasted on dogs. This is causing a lot of misconceptions about dog attacks particularly by pit pulls. Here are a few links to these articles :

    The Role of Cultural Marxism in the Pit Bull Problem

    http://charles-danten.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-role-of-cultural-marxism-in-pit.html

    The Killer Dog Problem: How the Globalists in Power are Transposing on Pit Bulls their Bogus Notions on Race and Behaviour

    http://charles-danten.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-killer-dog-problem-how-globalists.html

    The Anti-Hate-Speech Propaganda of the Pro Pit Bull Advocates

    http://charles-danten.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-anti-hate-speech-propaganda-of-pro.html

    The Pit Bull Problem. A Few Root Causes

    http://charles-danten.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-pit-bull-problem-few-root-causes.html

  24. dearieme says:

    My boyhood dog was a mongrel. In adult life I have fallen for a pooch just once: a West Highland Terrier. I commend the breed to you.

  25. @SunBakedSuburb

    Cat ladies are usually childless (at least in our rural part of the world, might be different with the city lap dog brigade) while dog owners mostly have kids.

    Dogs may be filthy creatures (and they are) but they are always cheerful and optimistic. When a dog owner dies alone the dog will stay and guard the body, when a cat owner dies alone the cats will eat the body where a dog will starve.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/2549214/Dog-stands-guard-over-dead-owners-body-for-six-weeks.html

    Dogs are the same species as wolves (they’re just domesticated wolves), can breed with them and produce fertile ofspring. Amazing what breeding will do.

    And like their wolf forebears, dogs enjoy rolling in stinky stuff.

    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170608-the-many-reasons-why-dogs-might-roll-in-smelly-poo

  26. curri says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    You’ve got dogs confused with dindus and the juice.

    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    , @Svigor
  27. Factorize says:

    I think the thread should give very serious consideration to the potential of dog IQ uplift. It is highly plausible that the Cognitive Singularity Event could now happen over perhaps a 10-20 year time frame. It would just be that it involved dogs, not people.

    We have been aware for quite some time now that 1500 IQ humans are at least within the realm of polite conversation. What happens when we consider 1500 IQ dogs (based on their psychometric scale)? As an initial guess, I would not compare favorably on an IQ test versus a 1500 IQ dog. With 2 year breeding cycles, there would be 15 dog to 1 typical modern human generation. It has been seen that 10 human generations would result in the fixation of all high IQ chromosomes which would result in profound intelligence enhancement. Dogs could achieve this in 20 years. Having the ability to freely choose DNA from an estimated dog population in excess of 500 million would also drive rapid IQ uplift, as would CRISPR. The economic incentive to create genius dogs would likely also be substantial. There are many lonely people in this world whose last remaining contact with reality is through their pets. How many of these people would not be delighted if they could have an adult level conversation with their pets. The psychometric arguments surrounding possible
    intelligence differences between genders, classes, races, nations etc.
    soon could of the past. If people find genetic IQ enhancement morally unacceptable, fine; Get out of the Way! Welcome your new canine overlord.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Sowhat
  28. @SunBakedSuburb

    Who is it speaking baby-talk here?

    • Replies: @Miggle
  29. Sparkon says:
    @Factorize

    How many of these people would not be delighted if they could have an adult level conversation with their pets.

    Oh but they already do. Sure, the adult-level conversation is a bit one-sided, and occasionally the cooing human has to downshift into, well, baby-talk because I guess some dogs fall behind on their English lessons.

    A dog can learn to chase a ball or a frisbee pretty darn well, but most dogs fail the lesson about not running out in front of cars. Or bicycles. And the big one about coprophagia. Yeah, the SED is not just an urban myth. Think twice before letting the dog lick your face, or even your hands.

    Worst of all, some dogs attack, even kill humans. I saw another sad story recently about a 70-year-old California woman who was killed in her own home by a “friend’s” four pit bulls that were staying with her.

    Pit bulls ripped her flesh. What a way to die – killed by dogs.

    Well, on a lighter note, I did see an example of dog intelligence recently.

    A dog may not recognize the danger from cars, but Georgia mascot Ugh, a c50 lb. English bulldog instantly recognized the danger when Texas mascot Bevo, a mere 1700 lb. Longhorn steer took an instant dislike to the ugly mutt, lowered his head, and charged at Ugh, trying to hook that little doggie with one of its truly impressive and dangerous-looking long horns.

    Amazingly, the bullldog suddenly put on a surprising burst of speed and got the heck out of the way of that charging steer like right now. The genius idea of a meeting of the mismatched mascots turned into a slightly different kind of photo opportunity, with people scattering like 10-pins when the steer made his move, several narrowly escaping serious injury.

    Steers have given up their nuts to make them more docile, but apparently knowledge of the bulldog’s original purpose must have still circulated somewhere in Bevo’s genetic memory when steer met dog at the Sugar Bowl.

  30. @Hypnotoad666

    According to the chart, one poor person was killed by a chihuahua.

    Hopefully it was a Chinaman choking on a bone.

  31. @James Forrestal

    retriever supremacist canards

    You fucking monster. We need to get you fired for continue to run the anti-Anatidite line that false narratives are French ducks.

    Violent anti-duck crime is perpetuated – nay, incited – every time anyone ever says ‘canard’ in that context.

    It is exacerbated when that hate-speech is used in a context that makes reference to historical oppressors (the ‘retriever’ – whose job was to ‘retrieve’ the bodies of dead or wounded ducks).

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  32. Factorize says:
    @Sparkon

    Sparkon, thank you very much for replying! Yes, I suppose that dogs could greatly benefit from some basic dinner and manners training, though the important thing is that deep down dogs are decent beings with a great sense of fun which I believe provides them with a great foundation to be our masters. Humanity has hopefully reached peak insanity: yet, with dogs running the show we could stay more grounded at all times

    I am anticipating a reply from the thread’s big antler psychometricians, though I think it should be obvious to all that the possibility of a Canine Overlord is worthy of a careful contemplation before rushing to the thread with a reactionary rebuttal. This is one of those times where the meme used on this thread would appear apt, namely the dog did not bark.

    Humanity has sent a reasonably clear signal that IQ uplift is not something that will be enthusiastically developed or will possibly even be prohibited. Great! If that is the decision, fine. We can lose control of our own destiny as a species. We can forfeit any sense of moral or intellectual legitimacy. We can become pets for our canine masters. For if we did not have a clear psychometric advantage, then the entire social organization of human civilization would rapidly dissolve.

    Either play with the big dogs or go home! What is clear to me is that humans are now at an extraordinary disadvantage to canines. It is highly plausible that canines could leap ahead of us over the course of a few of their generations. If humans do not make a scramble to join the game, they will never have a chance to catch up.

    I checked online, there are in fact, dog genotyping services available for them. The gene chips have 200,000 SNPs on them with a cost of about $70. Considering the vet expenses involved, this would be money well spent. I would guess that pet owners would have an interest in knowing what their pet’s IQ might be and would be willing to pay a premium for a more intelligent animal. Polygenic scores could be constructed based upon reasonably understood psychometric theory. Appears one of the last remaining items is a doggy IQ test. Considering the wide range of likely g loaded tasks that could be presented to them, such a test should not be overly difficult to construct.

    • Replies: @Anon
  33. @SunBakedSuburb

    ‘And you’re a victim of the non-stop doggy wuv propaganda spewing forth from the liberal/corporate media. THEY want you drooling over and speaking baby-talk to these filthy, obnoxious parasites. Wake up before it’s too late!’

    Now then pardner, you’re talking shit about Ralph. Gonna have to do something about that…

  34. @Sparkon

    ‘…Well, on a lighter note, I did see an example of dog intelligence recently.

    A dog may not recognize the danger from cars, but Georgia mascot Ugh, a c50 lb. English bulldog instantly recognized the danger when Texas mascot Bevo, a mere 1700 lb. Longhorn steer took an instant dislike to the ugly mutt, lowered his head, and charged at Ugh…’

    More interestingly, Ralph, our beloved-but-normally-noticeably-idiotic Labrador Retriever, seems to have demonstrated his North American Indian dog heritage on one occasion.

    So we’re walking the loop trail around the top of Mount Tamilpais in the San Francisco Bay Area when Ralph suddenly darts off down into the heavy brush below the path. I look down and see a rattlesnake — one of those big, fat ones you really don’t want to see zapping your sixty pound dog.

    He starts rattling — and it’s like someone threw Ralph’s transmission into reverse. All of a sudden, he’s shooting back up that hillside exactly as fast as he went down it.

    Thank God for instinct and heritability.

  35. Biff says:

    I’ve got an older retriever and a younger Shetland sheep dog, and just by example the sheep dog now retrieves.

  36. Cortes says:

    I found an illustrated edition of

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_of_the_Bushveld

    in good condition in a charity shop. My sister being a dog nut, I gave it to her and she loved it and passed it out to her pooch-loving friends. She reported that the dog had been trained to distinguish whites from blacks and was very aggressive towards the latter.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  37. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    I can’t help myself…

    And that’s no bull…

  38. JLK says:

    I suppose you could measure the quality of a free speech site by the number of hit dogs hollerin’.

  39. Sparkon says:

    Alas, my report of the bulldog Uga’s intelligence and speed to recognize and elude the charging steer Bevo is dashed I tell you dashed by this telling short clip showing it was actually the bulldog’s handler who reacted quickly and decisively to get himself and Uga out of harm’s way just in the nick of time with a mighty tug to the bulldog’s leash. The bulldog schlepper was no slouch in the face of the charging steer.

    GIF by Davidap93

    Clearly, this dramatic action at the Sugar Bowl shows why in Boulder they call ’em
    -==[ D o g – G u a r d i a n s ]==-
    …as the bulldog Uga was just sitting there stupidly about to be pronged with no apparent cognizance of the enormous beast with the huge horns bearing down on him.

    Also in Boulder they speak in hushed tones of
    + – The Dog Poop Fairy – +
    …a mythical supernatural creature rationalized to exist by Dog Guardians, who, after dutifully scooping up their dog’s do into one of the plastic bags thoughtfully provided in dispensers, simply let the bag of dog poop drop somewhere along the way as they continue their merry outing along Boulder’s storied and well-used Boulder Creek Path, confident in their lofty self-righteousness that the crap-grabbing angel will be along shortly to pick up the poo, and certain this is a perk that comes with display of certain prominent and virtuous Yuppie fruit salad like North Face, Patagonia, and Prius. No worries. It works every time.

    • Replies: @Really
  40. songbird says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    I imagine the retrievers jumped on the trigger of a shotgun, while duckhunting.

  41. @Kratoklastes

    Temper! Temper! Your Labrador- German Shepherd cross would have been very upset by your outburst. That is if, as for mine (long dead at nearly 16: hybrid vigour as for yours I suppose) yours was the best of Labrador and best of German Shepherd rather than the worst. Ours loved being chased by children and could stand over a bowl of food in a way no pure Labrador would have managed for 5 seconds. He looked and moved like a German Shepherd enough to guard us and our house as crims didn’t notice that he couldn’t quite get his ears to stand erect.

  42. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    They’ve become crazy pit bull ladies.

  43. Georg123 says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    First: I do not espacially like dogs, but I do not have problems will well-trained, well behaving ones. To each its own.

    The one thing that always puzzles me when watching “dog lovers” is, that it shows how simple and trivial, even paltry human social behaviour is. All it takes for “friendship” is (well-pretended) ass-kissing. Personality? Complex interaction? Co-operation? – Forget it! Old widow loves her stupid, useless dog as much as she had loved her husband (and father of her children, and breadwinner) before that.

    I personally cannot see a difference between single old women with dogs, and single old men with ultra-realistic rubber dolls as partners.

    And lets not forget that many people project their hidden negative sides through their dog. Inducing fear in children, being a nuisace for adults – that’s the dogs job. A woman started working im my neighborhood, and she is the walking prototype of “middle-aged, divorced, had to look for a lousy office job now, replaced husband with dog”. The little stinker she keeps does nothing but looking cute and barking all day, and I am quite sure she even enjoys the fact, that the dog is terrorizing its sorrounding by noise – you know: some power over other people for a powerless, worn-out, useless old woman. Plus, moral superiority: “You are a bad person, you do not like dogs.”

    A cynical mind could also call women and children “parasites”. But at least they are humans of our own breed, and marriage and proliferation contributes to the human race, while 95% of all dogs are just a waste of resources.

  44. Discard says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    What did dogs do before there was a liberal/corporate media to shill for them?

  45. Caruthers says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    “If I loved a guy as much as I love my dog, the guy would be in serious trouble. Because I’m all over that dog, all the time.”
    Maria Sharapova

    Your vitriol is inspired by vile envy of the greater charisma and magnetism of the noble canine.

  46. n230099 says:

    So many dogs…so few recipes.

  47. SteveH says:
    @Sparkon

    Regarding dogs and traffic, while working in Moscow I saw on more than one occasion a feral dog waiting with humans at a pedestrian crossing on a busy road. When the lights changed and the people started to cross, so did the dog.

    • LOL: Svigor
    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    , @Biff
  48. A dog may be man’s best friend but Muslim’s it’s not. I’ve seen motorists in Muslim countries swerve and accelerate from their lane just to get the dog at risk to self and others, while in non-Muslim nations it’s the reverse, motorists risk life and limb to avoid a dog, like that woman in California who drove off a cliff.

    I agree with the author that dogs should be restricted to the countryside but that won’t happen in our societies.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  49. mp says:

    Some blacks (and some white folk) enjoy using vicious dogs to guard their property, and often use them as fighting animals. Most whites, on the other hand, have developed what can only be termed a bizarre pseudo-love for dogs, often using them as a replacement for authentic human affection, which, by the way, is more difficult to attain inasmuch as the demise of the traditional extended family is now mostly complete, and because human relations are so fragmented. White folk no longer simply have an “affection” for dogs; instead what exists is an unhealthy devolution of proper emotional feeling.

    The substitution of dogs for human varieties of love (i.e., in the Greek sense of kinds of love—storge, philia, and possibly among some, even eros) manifests in many current-day examples. Places where once it was, if not illegal, certainly in bad taste, to take a dog (restaurants, grocery stores, department stores) now cater to dogs. Upscale and even regular grocery stores have frozen food sections where one may purchase specialty doggie items. Hotels allow dogs. Doggie boutiques, day cares, and dog walking services are available. Millennials avoid children, but dress their dogs in little outfits, strolling with them in baby carriages, taking the animals downtown to trendy cafes, drinking designer martinis, eating exotic dishes no one ever heard of. Television commercials routinely show humans kissing their dogs and, in return, getting licked in the face (please note, dogs to not “kiss;” that is an anthropomorphism). Many folks claim to have developed a neurotic anxiety that will not allow them to be in public without a “comfort” dog.

    My grandfather worked a family farm (I am 65). He had dogs. Several. But they stayed outside. They lived under the house, and were expected to work. He (and others of his generation) would never have let a dog in the house, slept with a dog, or let a dog lick them in the face. Dogs ate left over table scraps, outside.

    Certainly dogs are loyal, and make good pets, within reason. They are excellent workers. However, dogs in their natural state are scavengers. They roll in waste, and eat their own vomit. They necessarily follow the way of their nature. White’s preoccupation with turning dogs into pseudo-children can rightly be viewed as some sort of cultural pathology.

    Anent this ‘cult of the dog’, we could mention its corollary, the ubiquitous middle aged cat lady syndrome.

    So, while it is one thing to criticize black folk for their treatment of dogs or, as some do, to ethnocentrically wonder about East Asians eating dogs, one must not exclude within any critique white’s degenerate reification of doggie love, one that really underscores the decline of the proper sense and value between the human-animal hierarchy of being.

  50. TG says:

    I would propose that not only have we bred dogs – but they have bred us.

    OK sure, today most dogs are ‘parasitical’ (although IMHO they give more security than you think – a barking dog, even a Chihuahua, can make your average criminal look elsewhere. Especially that killer Chihuahua listed above!).

    But for early hunter-gatherers, having a dog would be a godsend. Their senses of smell, ability to see in low light, and speed, would greatly complement us. A primitive hunter with a dog is going to be a lot better off than a hunter solo.

    And consider this: there would surely be selection for humans that are better at bonding with dogs, and training and getting along with them, yes? And those humans would have been better prepared to domesticate horses and cattle etc. And possibly even predisposed us to work better with large groups of our own species?

    OK sure, you can play the ‘evolution’ game forever, who knows, and it is likely complicated. But it could have been a factor.

    • Replies: @DRA
  51. @Georg123

    and I am quite sure she even enjoys the fact, that the dog is terrorizing its sorrounding by noise – you know: some power over other people for a powerless, worn-out, useless old woman. Plus, moral superiority: “You are a bad person, you do not like dogs.”

    Perhaps you’ve noticed that parents of “afflicted” children often use them in the exact same manner, that is by terrorizing those who don’t particularly enjoy spending time with retards etc.

  52. @mp

    Although not generally recognized as such, excessive attachment to domesticated animals is a form of mental illness.

  53. @curri

    You’ve got dogs confused with dindus and the juice.

    I have noticed that men who do not like dogs tend to belong to one of those groups, with the Aloha Snackbars thrown in.

  54. I just want it on the record that Stan coined the term DBD (Dog BioDiversity) in one of Sailer’s comment threads quite a while ago. So no stealing without attribution like has happened with “Detoilet” and “HBD Mitten”.

    Also, for those who haven’t seen it, I’ll repost my rebuttal to those who say “all humans are members of the same species and therefore exactly the same.”

    Maggie and Dude are separated by a lot fewer years of evolution than Stan and Shitavious.

    Oh, and one other thing, I’m copyrighting my “Society is a Racial Construct” just as soon as I can find the forms. A guy’s gotta make a living somehow amirite?

  55. @Hypnotoad666

    According to the chart, one poor person was killed by a chihuahua.

    Well they are vicious little mesoamerican bastards..

    On the other side, I once managed to identify exactly two people (both kids) killed by English Mastiffs. The original news reports didn’t specify how (nor am I fully convinced they weren’t mis-identified Bullmastiffs or pit/Mastiff hybrids), but I suspect the brutal 250lb monsters sat upon their victims.

  56. @Hypnotoad666

    Curse Ron and his miserly allocations of LOLs.

  57. conatus says:

    I’ve had dogs for forty years. While living in a zipcode that was 70% hostile minority I had two dogs who performed a service. Just having a 70 pound dog in your house is enough to get any serendipitous dood looking for an unlocked door to continue on to the next house.

    “But they don’t bite”
    “They have teeth don’t they”

    And all these anti dog grouches around here, acting all hyper-rational and shit, whats the matter with having fun? Now I live thirty miles out and still have a 70 pound dog who compels me to walk in the woods, sans leash, and feebly attempt to experience the olfactory wonders of untrod dirt.
    I guess Grouch-time is sooo important they can’t afford a second of gazing.

    Saint Gregory of Nyssa must’ve had a dog, he said:
    “Concepts create idols,
    Only Wonder comprehends.”

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  58. @SunBakedSuburb

    I am still trying to figure out if dogs are agents of the devil, or an alien plot to reduce human intelligence. Either way, these disgusting creatures are ruination.

    Okay hadji, we get your point. Maybe put the towel back on your head? You’ve baked in the sun a bit too long..

  59. @Georg123

    “Personality? Complex interaction? Co-operation? — Forget it”

    I’ve owned two border collies.

    My wife and I had been living in a new apartment home for about a month. In the middle of the night my dog began to bark, not her bark as though a stranger were approaching. It had a tone I couldn’t recognize (she being my first dog). I told her to go back to sleep and turned back over myself to get some shuteye. She calmed down for a bit and began barking again. Again I told her to be quiet, thinking it was just someone passing by outside. She obeyed again. A moment later she ran to the back door and began whining. Ah, I realized, she had to go out and poop, maybe she had gotten into some bad food that day and had a touch of diarrhea? So I finally got out of bed and went to the back door. When I opened it she bolted and I smelled smoke. I could see a yellow glow reflected off the building in the alley behind us. I pulled my clothes on and went out.

    The neighbor’s garage was on fire. It wasn’t really big yet so I just used our garden hose to extinguish it. Retrieved my dog and went back to sleep. The next day I went over to the neighbors, introduced myself and told him about the fire and my extinguishing it. He was disconcerted, to say the least.

    That afternoon there was a knock on my door. There were my neighbor and his neighbor. They asked about what had happened and I told them again how my dog had persisted until I took her attempts to rouse me seriously. They were very pleased. The man whose garage it was had reported the arson to the police and they had told him that there had been a string of fires in alleys in the area over the past few months and that, had I not intervened, he would likely have lost his garage. “Not me”, I told them, “My dog was the one who saved your garage. She wouldn’t quit till I took her seriously”.

    The neighbors rewarded her with a string of giant leg-joint bones from steers. She was in heaven. The heroine of the neighborhood.

    I moved into a new apartment home once. My dog was tied up out front. I let myself out the back door to explore, poked around the back yard a bit and circled around to the front. As I walked across the front yard my dog stood up an began barking at me. I said her name and bent down towards her but she kept barking, backing up warily. Finally she came forward and sniffed my hand and relaxed.

    But she wasn’t content. I let her off the leash and instead of following me in the front door, she disappeared around the side of the house. A moment later, while I was inside telling my wife how my own dog didn’t recognize me, she barked lightly from the back door where she stood happily wagging her tail. I let her in and she came to me, sniffed my hand and looked up at my face with an expression of satisfaction.

    She had solved the riddle of how I could be walking towards her across the front yard when she knew that I had gone into the house through the front door, just behind her. It wasn’t until she had retraced my steps backwards by scent and had come to the back door through which she could see me, now inside, that she reached cognitive closure and could rest content. Being young and new to the house, she had no concept of “back door”.

    Dogs definitely are capable of “Complex interaction” and “Co-peration”.

  60. @Hypnotoad666

    What does it say about a person that they were killed by a Chihuahua?

    When I was a small child, we had a pit bull. They are ferociosly loyal to those with whom they bond. One day, my father went to spank me, and the dog took him down by the throat and looked to me as if I had the final say. Needless to say, we didn’t have a pit bull after that.

    • Replies: @nsa
  61. One frequently sees pitbulls favored by Blacks, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans and German shepherd by the Russians Jews in New York City… why is that?

    • Replies: @renfro
  62. You might to trace the history of dog human behavior to starting in New Guinea.

    Dogs are great companions. And it is certainly accurate that they have varying temperments as do all human beings, along with a vast number of traits. And that the biological breeding has largely been localized to specific breeds.

    Unfortunately, the level of such typing does not exist among humans. Which is why any geneticist will tell you that among populations when it comes to genetics a Somalian can have more in common genetically with a white in NYC than a black some 200 miles away. Which is generally why we have ethnicity verses breed. And more to the point, breed if one wanted to go that direction skin color would not be a primary indicator of breed.

    During WWI the British were keen on importing from their colonies certain populations they believed “good for the fight”. I would invite you to examine how that turned out.

    You might want to ask geneticists the impact of human inbreeding which is vast, deliberate and intense —

    I had no idea that any “red blooded american” (US citizen – especially) could have in their person a dislike for dogs, unless they tended to lean . . . well the less said the better.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @fnn
  63. Svigor says:
    @curri

    Pretty sure he’s using “dog” as a code word for “Jew.”

  64. Roy says:

    Interesting piece. My only issue is with the tone, or lack of appreciation for the dog-human relationship. Dogs are a sort of miracle, the ONLY other living species to share the burden of humanity with us and stand by our side no matter what. You get it quickly when you have one. It is not dogs who are the captives but us, and they remind us every day of what it’s like to be an animal attuned to smells and sounds and everyday excitements such as snow and crunchy leaves.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  65. Alfred says:
    @Cortes

    I suspect the dogs that do that distinguish by smell rather than skin colour

    • Replies: @renfro
  66. Alfred says:

    So how do you train a dog to help the ambulance find you when you are unwell?

    Golden Retriever Saves Owner by Leading Ambulance to His House

    https://sputniknews.com/videoclub/201901241071778875-china-golden-retriever-ambulance/

  67. I have nothing against dogs, other than that they should live in the country, not the town, and preferably do something useful.

    Other than the fact that they eat shit I have nothing against dogs either. Other than that. That is hardly a no biggie though.

  68. renfro says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    I’ve noticed that extreme doggy wuvers tend to treat the humans in their lives like shit.

    oh lookie…a guy jealous of dogs. …..you got to be a reeeaaallll loser to be jealous of dogs.

  69. nsa says:

    Early homo sapiens domesticated the wolf creating a lethal team that hunted most everything else to extinction. A wolf pack could run down a mastodon or mammoth, but lacked the wherewithal to kill them. Humans had the tools to bleed out and kill the beasts, but not the ability to chase them down. Together, they could run down beasts and kill them. Over many generations the domesticated wolf became a necessity for not only hunting, but also warning of danger and fending off enemies. Some think that even the large intelligent neanderthals were hunted to extinction by homo sapiens abetted by his canine pals.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  70. I have nothing against people. Their intelligence is almost certainly overstated. They probably shouldn’t live in cities, where they inevitably become a nuisance and frequently violent. They should be doing something useful.

    Yet here we are.

    • LOL: renfro
  71. renfro says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    So it’s no wonder Pit Bull culture is more violent

    Thats a myth. I’ve been a member of a animal rescue team for 20 years and adopted a abused pit bull myself.
    Psychopaths who engaged in dogfighting choose use pit bulls because of their frontal bulk and jaw strength , they have to abuse them severely to make them aggressive. However once removed from that abuse they relate to humans in a gentle manner. Some will retain their fear of other dogs and be aggressive toward them, but not toward humans.

    In my state any kind of animal abuse and dog fighting gets you jail time and fines.
    Nothing I have enjoyed more than busting human trash animal abusers.

    • Agree: Sollipsist
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    , @Alfred
  72. renfro says:
    @Reuben Kaspate

    why is that

    They think a big dog makes up for their tiny dicks.

    • Replies: @Reuben Kaspate
  73. nsa says:
    @The Alarmist

    Whereas the average human shows less courage than a house cat, even the smallest dogs are capable of magnificent displays of bravery. Youtube has several raw store videos of two armed robbers (shotgun) being rousted and chased by Paco, a courageous chihuahua. Video titles: Chihuahua Stops Armed Robbery, Brave Chihuahua Paco, etc.

  74. renfro says:
    @Georg123

    The one thing that always puzzles me when watching “dog lovers” is, that it shows how simple and trivial, even paltry human social behaviour is.

    lol……I have a feeling you dont like dogs cause they dont like you…..they can sniff out your paltry character. …it gives off an odor.

  75. Boris N says:

    Just wondering how a Chihuahua can kill anything bigger than a rat. If only with rabies or causing a heart attack (from too much laughter).

    And collie… E tu, Lassie?

  76. @SunBakedSuburb

    It’s time you took yourself off to your local Vietnamese take-out and exacted some revenge. I’m sure they would give you the heart then you could be brave like a chihuahua.

  77. @j2

    ” places where the civilization came last,”
    That would be Africa, surely: any day now.

  78. Herald says:
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Why would a dog be expected to love an owner who mistreats it? In fact though, dogs often do still love their owners even if they are despicable creeps much like yourself.

  79. Anonymous[213] • Disclaimer says:
    @curri

    Great point. SunBakedSuburb is confused. There’s nothing complex about true love.

    His wife’s son’s boyfriend’s allegiances might appear complex, though. I’ll grant him that.

  80. @renfro

    So it’s no wonder Pit Bull culture is more violent

    Thats a myth.

    I believe you that it’s the “pit bull culture” of the human owners that is the problem. I know in LA as of a few years ago almost all of the rescues from inner city areas had some mixture of pit (aka Staffordshire Terrier) in them.

    But pretty much everyone who owns one claims they are the sweetest possible breed. I guess part of the problem is that if they ever do bite they have the equipment to do a lot of damage. Little yappy Chihuahuas are constantly biting people but no one cares.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Anon
  81. @renfro

    Well, renfro! It may be the first group might be in need to protect contraband and the second group might be protecting profits from the first…

  82. @mp

    I’ve never understood why people let their dogs up on their chairs and couch or worse, let them sleep on their bed.

    • Replies: @Anon
  83. DRA says:
    @TG

    And consider this: there would surely be selection for humans that are better at bonding with dogs, and training and getting along with them, yes? And those humans would have been better prepared to domesticate horses and cattle etc. And possibly even predisposed us to work better with large groups of our own species?

    Bingo!

  84. Elli says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Multi-dog attack. Chihuahua was there. Took a few bites after the kill.

    There used to be a Chihuahua and a Doberman in a nearby yard. I called them Early Warning and Armed Response.

  85. renfro says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Yeah, a bad human can make a bad dog.
    I’ve had a dog and dogs and horses since I was 3 yrs old,,,every kind, cocker spaniel, terrier, beagle, german shepards, mongrels, chinese pugs, etc..my pit bull, Sam, was a rescue. I was concerned at first that he and my 3 month old german shepard puppy would not accept each other but the pit took to the playfulness of the puppy and they became fast friends When Sam pasted away from cancer Chucka, my shepard literally went into morning, would go all over the house and yard looking for him and whining.
    20 years ago some friends and I got together and started a animal sanctuary and rescue operation, we bought 10 acres with a house in the country to start and have expanded to 30 acres and buildings for cats, dogs, we’ve even taken in goats and horses. Having seen the abuse heaped on dogs and starved horses over the years I naturally have a higher opinion of animals than I have of some humans. The only person I have ever hit in my life was a guy trying to get away from me in a dog fighting bust, I broke his nose…… it felt good…..I would do it again.

    • Replies: @Anon
  86. NYCTexan says:
    @mp

    Finally someone other than Sunbakedsuburb that gets it. Allow me to expand on this a bit.

    Dogs have taken the place of children for millennials and anyone else who is of an age where they should naturally be rearing their own children. That’s why we see young women everywhere professing that they are “dog moms” and posting on fb to keep Fido in your prayers as he undergoes surgery for a twisted gut while being 13 and blind as a bat, costing said owner untold thousands that she really cannot afford. We are all very familiar with this trend.

    But all this has an aspect that most haven’t considered. Likely dog lovers even those with ostensibly traditional/alt-right views who frequent and comment on this web site might say there is nothing wrong with treating dogs like children if you don’t have your own and so on. But the thing they miss is that assuming your dog is a stand-in for the children you don’t have or don’t wish to have, it is actually a horribly devastating substitute. Human beings (and probably any other higher order animal) are not supposed to outlive their children. Here is a thought experiment for those of you lucky enough to have young children. Imagine that you found out today that all of your kids had a genetic defect that would cause them to die within six to ten years, and there is no cure. How would that impact your relationship with the rest of the world, the rest of society, for the rest of your life? People who are so invested in dogs, the majority of white city dog owners really, deal with this existential issue every day. Is it any wonder they are so susceptible to nihilistic tendencies? Chew on that for a bit.

    A little extra historical context:
    Most here agree dogs were companions and working dogs before they became substitute children for the masses. But historically small dog breeds kept indoors were the domain of aristocratic ladies who had already had children that had grown past the point where they needed their mother around all the time. Such ladies, owing to their wealth, had no chores and wanted to feel useful, as is natural. That’s how the small dog accessory started, a few centuries ago. Of course other women in lower classes saw this and started emulating it as is their nature.

    The other thing I want to mention is that non-western countries still retain a very healthy relationship to dogs, and everything I wrote here would be nothing new to a Caucasian or a China-man. And before some reader takes cheap shots at these cultures for eating dogs or being backwards, consider that many of the most desirable dog breeds come from these places. How can that be so? Perhaps it is because they have the discipline and foresight to practice the moderation western man and women long abandoned.

    • Replies: @renfro
    , @Anon
    , @Sbaker
  87. renfro says:
    @Alfred

    Extremely intelligent dogs like shepards pick up word ‘sounds’ ….I could tell my shepard without any gestures to go back to the ‘car’ and he would go sit by the car and wait.
    A friend who’s daughter’s cat went missing went out searching the neighborhood calling for the kitty by name…..he had given up when here comes his shepard gingerly carrying the kitten by the scruff of his neck. He had probably sniffed it out cause cats will hide in something when scared and in strange territory and wont respond to calls…but the shepard knew the name called out was the cat’s and looked for it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  88. renfro says:
    @NYCTexan

    But the thing they miss is that assuming your dog is a stand-in for the children you don’t have or don’t wish to have, it is actually a horribly devastating substitute.

    Total bullshit.
    My 3 brothers and I grew up with dogs (and horses) as pets . I doubt our parents considered them substitutes for children…lol

    My three sons grew up with dogs and my five grandchildren all have dogs …….and raising three boys we sure as hell didnt need any substitutes for children Animals add more joy and their own kind of love to a family.

    Imagine that you found out today that all of your kids had a genetic defect that would cause them to die within six to ten years, and there is no cure. How would that impact your relationship with the rest of the world, the rest of society, for the rest of your life? People who are so invested in dogs, the majority of white city dog owners really, deal with this existential issue every day

    Yes we do but the point to any life, animal or human is to make it as happy and good as it can be while you have life.
    Some people aren’t man or woman enough or strong enough to accept responsibility for lives between birth and death.

    The Chinese who eat dogs are primitives.

    • Replies: @NYCTexan
  89. AKAHorace says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Cats keep mice away. Their obsession with killing small animals is ugly but useful to us.

    They may sometimes have some sentiment for us as well. Cat mothers bring kittens dead mice to play with so they will learn how to hunt, perhaps the same motivation drives them to do this for their owners.

    • Replies: @Anon
  90. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @mp

    I remember walking past what I assumed was a toy store specializing in dolls. But it was a pet store with dog toys and numerous little dog dresses, mostly pink, just like the doll clothes colored to appeal to 4 year old girls.

    When my girls and their friends were about 11 they enjoyed dressing the cats in doll clothes. By 13 they grew out of it.

    I love the little booties dogs wear to protect their oh so sensitive feet from hot sidewalks in summer and cold in winter. Recently I saw a couple walking what looked like a standard sized greyhound. He was wearing a suit of pajamas. He was covered from feet to mouth to anus. There was even an extension tube for his tail. It was beige with widely spaced black stripes.

    It was 71 degrees that day.

    Off topic French 24 is on. News claims the entire world except for Israel and its running dog * USA is outraged about the US interference in Venezuela.

    * running dog servile accomplice

  91. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @AKAHorace

    If you leave kittens with their mothers for 8 weeks the mothers house break them. Cats destroy entire flocks of birds. But they destroy rats and mice too.

    When I was a kid we had a not neutered Tom. He used to disappear for s few days and bring home dead weasels. Cool. He was afflicted with toxic masculinity. His name was Tippy. Black and white Persian, very pretty

  92. hard to believe thompson didn’t know about the very real difference in intelligence between dog breeds. not only in a layman’s sense, but the existing research on this topic, dating back almost 40 years.

    perhaps humorously, the germanic dogs were also smarter in general, similar to their breeders.

  93. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @NYCTexan

    Those ladies lap dogs and the custom of sleeping with dogs and keeping them around the dining table had nothing to do with lonely old ladies.

    Lap dogs, sleeping with dogs, dogs underfoot in every room were for the purposes of attracting fleas away from humans to the dogs. When humans and dogs are in close contact, the fleas stay on the dogs.

    Fleas prefer dogs, not humans. It’s one of the reasons landlords don’t allow dogs. The dogs leave. Fleas hibernate . Next tenant moves in and the fleas wake up.

    • Replies: @NYCTexan
  94. FrAG says:

    Dogs will be the model-species that provide the molecular-level detail to James Watson’s heresy.

    The veterinarians and animal scientists will not be scared to identify genetic factors that govern intelligence. Why would they they? They are only looking at animals after all!

    ….then someone (probably the Chinese) will search the human genome for those same molecular details and then the cat (or dog as it were) will be out of the bag.

  95. “Canines are parasites.”

    you spelled cats wrong.

    it’s not clear to me that house cats could even exist if humans disappeared. i’m of the opinion that they would vanish not soon after, as other animals took them out. dogs, however, are evolutionarily proven. and will persist for eternity after humans are gone. dogs are actually useful for stuff too. house cats are worthless. they’re not even good at hunting. and their guts carry dangerous bacteria and viruses.

    agree with the general premise however that people under 40 today use pets as surrogates for more humans that they should be making instead.

    i’ve also had the thought that pets should be banned, so that people make more humans, instead of looking after 12 year lifespan animals, then getting another, until they’re old enough they can’t make more humans. serious issue in the US, at least.

    • Replies: @jbwilson24
    , @renfro
  96. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @ThreeCranes

    Ha My mother thought she had the dog trained to stay off the couch. But every time we had a lot of relatives staying over someone had to sleep on the couch. The dog would spend the entire night poking the sleeper because the couch was the dog’s bed.

  97. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Go to dogsbite.org for info on pit bulls who kill their owners.

    Then go to the pit bull lovers websites. So funny. All sorts of articles about how to be a responsible pit bull owner. Keep them in a locked crate in a bedroom with the door shut. Walk them but carry a special stick to pry its jaws open when it gets a death grip on a neighbor

    Very amusing.

  98. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @renfro

    I’ve done s lot of dog sitting for 2 dogs in the last 2 years. They understand words and sentences. No need for hand and gesture commands.

    Say I’m in the driveway and the car door’s open. “ You’re not coming go back in the yard”. Wait till I get the kids in the car seats”. “ Want to come? Ok get in”

    The more you talk to them the more they understand.

    Dogs aren’t the problem. It’s dog owners who are the problem, especially gay dog owners.

    • Agree: renfro
  99. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @renfro

    Why do you think horses are starved? I think it’s because people buy horses and don’t realize how much it costs to feed horses? What’s your opinion?

    • Replies: @renfro
  100. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @mp

    The worst dog owners are the narcissists with their emotional support dogs. Look at us look st us look at us. I’m so special I need my comfort critter and look at my comfort critter in his cute little support dog vest.

    Gag. One good thing about all this immigration. None, from the whitest Russian to the darkest African come from dog worshipping cultures.

  101. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Factorize

    Intelligent dogs are harder to train and less obedient. But so what if it just takes a bit more firmness to train them.

  102. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @anarchyst

    He looked to be more than half White.

  103. NYCTexan says:
    @renfro

    Sure dogs and other pets are good for teaching young children responsibility and even how to deal with emotional issues like grief. I’m happy for you that you had kids and they got to enjoy having dogs. When I was young I had dogs too and also have fond memories. But I wasn’t talking about kids with dogs. I was specifically talking about adults who have dogs instead of kids.

  104. Johann says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    I contend that the average dog is nicer than the average person.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  105. NYCTexan says:
    @Anon

    Nothing to do with lonely old ladies?

    https://www.pedigree.com/dog-care/dog-facts/the-evolution-of-pet-ownership#

    https://annswinfen.com/2017/05/medieval-pets/

    If you have anything backing up the flea theory you put forward please share; I would be glad to look at it.

    • Replies: @Anon
  106. @mp

    My grandfather worked a family farm (I am 65). He had dogs. Several. But they stayed outside. They lived under the house, and were expected to work.

    Pretty well describes my grandfather and his farm dogs. He had many dogs but he always gave them the same name — “dog.” As in “come here, dog.” Zero interest in anthropomorphizing.

    They also fed scraps to herds of feral cats that mostly hunted in the fields for their own food. They never bothered to give those critters any names at all.

  107. @SteveH

    Coyotes encroaching on the city limits of Chicago have been reported to observe and understand traffic light signals.

    https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-coyotes-289187901.html

  108. @SunBakedSuburb

    “Canines are parasites.”

    No, some dogs work for their keep. Guard dogs, sheep dogs. My dogs serve an important function, which is to guard the house. One is decidedly not a pet. When choosing houses to rob, even the dumbest thief is going to pass on the house with a few 140lb unfriendly mastiff type dogs.

    “Don’t feed the parasite for twenty-four hours and see how much your doggy wuvs you.”

    What a weird suggestion. If I refused to feed my dogs for 24 hours they would sit there, giving me long faces, looking sad. Do you think they are going to tear into your flesh like a cat whose owner has died and left them locked in a room with nothing else to eat? Perhaps the dogs will compose rude sonnets? Send nasty emails on twitter?

    This blog used to attract intelligent commenters, but I see that the quality is dropping.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
  109. @prime noticer

    “i’ve also had the thought that pets should be banned, so that people make more humans, instead of looking after 12 year lifespan animals, then getting another, until they’re old enough they can’t make more humans.”

    If only we could fund a program to make dog ownership popular among the more primitive of the earth’s denizens, like Bantu, Tamils, Pakis, Arabs and the like. There would be more dogs and less ugly inbred people to foul things up.

    If only Hindus had a pervasive cat lady problem, the earth would send its thanks.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  110. renfro says:
    @Anon

    Its different in different cases. Last year we took the horses of a former district judge who had starved them. He definitely could have afforded to feed them. Any time we take animals we have to go to court to prove they needed to be taken
    So the judge had to appear in court afterward and all he would say is he didn’t think they were starved
    After the judge saw the pictures he fined the Judge $4,000 payable immediately to cover vet bills and$300 a month for their care and feeding for as long as the horses were with us and not adopted out.
    We have a network of volunteers who also spy for us….they make sure none of the people we’ve caught have gotten any more pets and animals.

    We had another weird case where a woman kept adopting dogs, making them sick and then having them put down….her vet tipped us off when she brought a third dog in to be put down , he refused and called us.

    • Replies: @Anon
  111. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @NYCTexan

    The fleas and lice and dogs attracting the fleas are common knowledge among historians. Nowadays it’s not just lonely old ladies. It’s lonely youngish bachelors and their canine best friend.

    • Replies: @renfro
  112. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @renfro

    Good for you. Horses are enormous expense and work. I wouldn’t trust any boarding stable either to properly feed my horse.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  113. renfro says:
    @prime noticer

    Actually cats can survive on their own, dogs not so much. Of all the ones we’ve rescued , mostly because they were injured, only one or two couldn’t or rather refused to be on their own..lol
    One of them is looking at me right now….a black cat my wife rescued from a roof where it wouldnt come down and howled for 3 days. She brought it home instead of taking it to the sanctuary, it ran into the house , ran around and went into the guest bedroom and hid under the bed. It had a smashed front and back paw, probably a car, but recovered. Now she refuses to go outside. She’s adoptable as a lot of people want a cat they don’t have to case down if they get outside. Meanwhile she wont let my wife, her savior, out of her sight for long.

  114. renfro says:
    @Anon

    There is no excuse for fleas. We give every cat or dog we rescue a Capstar tablet which kills all adult fleas immediately and Advantage treatment monthly there after to kill off maturing eggs and any others.

  115. @nsa

    I’ve never read before of humans having domesticated hunting packs before they had domesticated dogs that warned of danger and protected their human family. Nor of the theory about Neanderthal extermination. So… which sources/references/links do you recommend?

    • Replies: @fnn
  116. fnn says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    There are a couple of books that posit theories more or less like that:

    I haven’t read them.

    • Replies: @fnn
  117. “I am going kill your dog”
    US Zionist deep state is now going full Bolshevik
    (I have been witnessing by my own eyes Bolshevik after midnight arrest. My neighbors were arrested and taken away, just because they had a relative escaping to Sweden. There was horrible screaming by wife. They were released after a week though.)
    (Roger Stone.)

  118. Sbaker says:
    @Commentator Mike

    There is a vast difference in the evolution of cultures. The Western world has come to engage the companionship and mostly has an appreciation of the bond between canines and humans while Muslim cultures detest them and eat them. Muslims describe them as filthy animals deserving of contempt and consumption.

  119. @Hypnotoad666

    Dog behavior is what it’s always been. What has you confused is large and increasing numbers of humans behaving more like dogs than humans.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  120. @SunBakedSuburb

    I agree. I’m suspicious of ugly, middle-aged women who live alone with large, aggressive male dogs. Sorta makes you wonder.

    • Replies: @Sbaker
  121. @Carroll Price

    Shame on you!!!!!! Denigrating dogs.

  122. Sbaker says:
    @Carroll Price

    Jumping the species barrier is a progressive alternative lifestyle.

  123. Sbaker says:
    @Anon

    Most horse don’t know how to properly feed a horse and when it comes to bill collection, horse owners are the worst to deal with.

  124. Sbaker says:
    @NYCTexan

    What nonsense. Millennials not having children has not to do with having pets. The division between the sexes is driven by feminist dykes. Dykes hate men but choose other lesbians that look like men as sex partners. They cast their hatred of men on normal females; some are stupid enough to accept it, others don’t. The language, word usage, and meanings have been changed to fit this narrative using phrases like toxic masculinity, macho man, sexual harassment, and so goes the list so useful for driving s wedge of divisiveness between the sexes. Whites buy it, the Africans don’t understand it. What Africans do understand is the government funded breeding program of welfare.

    • Replies: @NYCTexan
    , @Anon
  125. Sparkon says:

    Back in dog-friendly Boulder for an update on -==[ D o g — G u a r d i a n s ]==-

    It looks like the fabled + – Dog Poop Fairy – + is looking for a helping hand from
    ~:• Dog Poop Detectives •:~ to maintain a database of dog poop DNA and nab the flakey fleeing canine crappers who are making a mess of the mountain.

    There is just so much unclaimed dog poop being discharged and left to stink along open space paths in Boulder, Colorado, that one city council member was reportedly exploring the possibility of requiring green tag (off leash) dogs to be tested for DNA so that the unclaimed dog poop could be identified and returned to its rightful owners. No word on what to do with dog poop dropped by dogs without green tags.

    Could fecal DNA database solve Boulder’s dog waste dilemma?

    Some…doggerel for the occasion, sung to the tune of “Mountain of Love” by Johnny Rivers:

    ♫ Standing on a mountain looking down on a city ♪
    The way I feel is a doggone…witty
    Dog poop’s stinking up my mountainside
    Many times I’ve been here, many times I’ve cried
    All the dogcrap at Chautauqua now is driving me to drink
    High on a mountain of stink ♫

    ♪A mountain of poo made of smelly dog do,
    You should be ashamed
    Now we’ve got the Stink Irons above
    And you’ve just changed your name ♫


    Johnny Rivers — Mountain Of Love
    Background vocals: The Blossoms

    More practically, I recommend a stealthy dog poop photo patrol to lurk in the undergrowth and document offending dog poop scofflaws in the act. Penalty: immediate revocation of green tag, and 24 hours dog poop clean-up detail along open space trails wearing a
    + – Dog Poop Fairy – + costume.

    • LOL: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  126. Che Guava says:

    The article is good.

    Some of the comments are funny.

    I am with James, I would prefer to have a dog around, but am living in a small flat. Not suitable for a dog.

    Those who mentioned the use of toy dogs for torture are all too correct, I was living in a flat with bad 風水 for some years, the door directly opposite mine, and a straight line through.

    When it was making noise, it was as if in my bedroom, 2, 3, 4 a.m. After some weeks of this, I pretended to enter my flat, but stayed in the corridor. So I heard the son leading the shitty little yappie dog to the door. Of course, it commenced its usual performance.

    The same creep also vandalised my bicycle multiple times, sure, I cannot prove it, but who else? Also, he was very careful to hide, I only saw him once in abt. five years.

    Those commentors claiming it is a western thing to push toy dogs around in prams should check Tokyo. It is an epidemic.

    So many, also obviously single people walking them (usually women). Many couples, too. The number of large dogs is huge, far beyond the number of stand-alone houses with even a small garden.

    All of it is relatively recent, roughly the last twenty years.

    Was also liking the several comments about dog IQ, I read a couple of enjoyable but slight S.F. stories about dogs achieving superiority over humans, also dogs (as wolves) being the only remnant animals to welcome exiled humans post -alien-invasion back to Earth.

    The comment on Muslims driving *at* dogs is accurate.

    Their seemingly inevitable takeover of parts of Europe, not only art and archictecure, but millenia of the world’s finest dog breeding will be gone.

    The commentor who was claiming that dogs are parasitic must have been Moslem. As several other commentors were saying, it has been a symbiotic relationship.

    In Japan, too, even though most of old paintings and prints show only scavenger mongrels, there are two great mini-wolf looking breeds. However, I strongly suspect that they were bred by the Ainu, not Japanese, the timespan makes it the only explanation, and the Ainu loved dogs and bears.

    Final point, hinted at by one or two other commentors, domestic cats are true parasites. They are never your friend. For farmers, they may still be useful at times in deterring rodents from grain, but I have seen a feral domestic cat back off from a not large rat in central Tokyo more than once. Why? Morons feed them gratis. They are all really fat.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
  127. NYCTexan says:
    @Sbaker

    It’s for people like you that I wish we could just paste pictures in these comments. Yes it’s all because of the dykes. I stand corrected.

    • Replies: @fnn
    , @Sbaker
    , @Che Guava
  128. fnn says:
    @NYCTexan

    Well, maybe “dykes” was meant as shorthand for Spenglerian decline and hegemonic bioleninist ideology:
    https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2018/12/27/interview-on-bioleninism/

    A lot of critics have said that Bioleninism is not real, the most wealthy and highest status people are still white men, black people are still poorer on average, etc. And of course, to the extent that in the West we still allow market forces, we still have a merit-based allocation of status. But everywhere else, wherever the Cathedral has any decision power: in public propaganda, in entertainment, in government hiring, in education: all of those are completely committed in giving status to everyone but white straight healthy men, in direct proportion to how different they are from white straight men. They give status in the form of hyping up in propaganda and cultural broadcasts they control (black surgeons on TV, female pilots, women with hijab in fashion ads, black history month, gay pride, whatever), and in preferential hiring for highly-paid sinecures and positions of influence. Again, that used to be mostly getting hired for some make-work job in the bureaucracy, or some professorship of Grievance Studies, but now they’re increasingly moving into the corporate world, HR being a well-known reservoir for politically connected people.

  129. Alohajim says:

    The ‘pet industry’ is brought to us by the same folks who run Hollywood, produce porn, and basically run, rule, and own the world. It’s benefits are great : one of the best distractions for human beings ever, and a wonderful profit center.

    Hilarious to read the vitriol against sunbaked as he is not a dog lover. lol.

    Dog lovers beware – just like so called ‘soft porn’ that you once had to pay for but is now on prime time TV, and exactly how the pornography ‘industry’ is now soft peddling pedophilia and prepping us for some kind of official sanctioning, the ‘pet industry’ is now preparing pet owners for the next step in our cultural, ethical, and moral decline : bestiality.

    All that face licking and dog face kissing by smiling and happy folks both young and old that you see on TV shows and on the various pet advertisements is quite deliberate.

    Too bad people are so thoroughly fooled and understand none of this. They don’t want you talking to real people, that might lead one to begin to think and wonder about our world. No. Obsfucation, deception, distraction, and subterfuge is how they roll. They want you to ‘talk’ to your dog and in return your dog will ‘love you’ unconditionally.

  130. joe webb says:

    I am surprised that nobody mentioned that great Mexican, from the Dog Whisperer, was it?

    He is a great trainer and is focused on dog nature, not learning, etc.

    Caesar Milan? I think…and his TV show, but have not seen it around lately.

    point: dogs need a pack leader. If you are not seen as such, by your dog, you and others are in trouble. (Interestingly that a Mexican got onto this real good. He knows Mexicans)

    Your dog should keep his eyes mostly on you. If he doesn’t…get rid of him or her. Or assert your domination and maybe that will work out.

    You are the pack leader….primary point.

    Joe

    • Replies: @Sollipsist
  131. nsa says:
    @fnn

    Dog pack hunting bear and cougar in this state was outlawed in 1996, recognizing the bear or cougar had no chance. Humans alone hunting bear or cougar are ineffective except for baiting. Even in the snow, humans track slowly and with difficulty. Dog packs alone can tree a bear or cougar but not kill it. Humans with dogs essentially amount to murder…….the bear or cougar has zero chance. The strike dogs pick up a scent from the back of a pickup on a logging road. The pack is then released to run down and tree the prey. The humans eventually show up to execute the treed animal with a handgun. Participate in one of these atavistic man/canine “hunts” and you will understand exactly why mastodons, mammoths, sabertooths, and even the Neanderthals were “extincted” many thousands of years ago.

    • Replies: @Cortes
  132. Yeah, I couldn’t find anything about a fatal chihuahua attack online. The closest I could find it was something about a woman killed by a pack of dachshunds. Which is even more surprising to me, since dachshunds have always struck me as one of the most mellow breeds.

  133. Sbaker says:
    @NYCTexan

    Then you haven’t a clue as to what the feminist movement has accomplished. Yeah, you’re right, it is because of pet dogs, cats, birds, turtles, and fish. Utter nonsense.

    • Replies: @NYCTexan
  134. @joe webb

    You haven’t heard about Cesar Milan lately because he was investigated for animal cruelty right about the time that everybody finally realized he was just another reality show con man whose only skill was impressing the rubes.

    The pack leader theory is bullshit. It’s derived from flawed observations of wolves in the wild. That’s like thinking you should develop proper interpersonal skills based on a misunderstanding of Jane Goodall’s research. It appeals mainly to minidicks who want to pretend that they have some control and power in their pathetic lives.

    • Agree: renfro
    • Replies: @fnn
  135. Lots of big fancy brains here so can someone explain why man’s best friend’s name just happens to spell God in reverse?

  136. Cortes says:
    @nsa

    Thanks for the explanation.

    One of my major bugbears is the increased reliance by the proverbial busy professional on “dogwalkers” who frequently have six or more dogs to exercise. The “walkers” seem to have little or no control over the animals and I fear that it’s only a question of when, not if, there’s a serious, perhaps fatal, mauling of another dog or even of a person.

  137. Sowhat says:
    @Factorize

    I realize that Unz.com is mainly for amusement and I thank Ron for setting standards of administration that allow my comments on various subjects. Having said that, I am amazed that intelligent men spend time online reading such “scientific” drivel. Graphs and charts, sorting, and genome discussions. No offense intended toward the author but my critique is not isolated to Dogmania.
    I digress.
    I’ve seen, firsthand, my neighbor’s physical and emotional abuse of a dog that gleefully ran up to me, a complete stranger, when I first moved to my home in 2004. That playful Collie-Lab mix was taken into my neighbor’s “care” because it’s owners down the road, didn’t want her any longer and I watched over the years as my neighbor, a Rx pill addict, recluse on SSD, slowly killed that playful dog…a true heartbreak.
    Wifey and I have an agreement- no animals. My other neighbor is one of the third of the population that is mentally ill, single in her mid-to-laate forties, has three cats, no man, and struggles with acting “normal so the cat observation regarding older marks is accurate.
    I do marvel at dog’s willingness to forgive the most egregious abuse in exchange for any affection. Of course I’ve read about humans who will do the same.
    I believe that all animals communicate with their kind and, sometimes, with other species, silently, at least in our hearing range. It may be just body language.
    I’ve chosen back-yard bird’s to “befriend”. After fifteen years, they’ll come within feet and allow my presence while they eat. In that time I’ve registered 47 species here in the suburbs.
    Dogs do reflect their owners psyche. Before I retired, I visited a customer’s home once every two years or so, She wasn’t “the whole dollar” either and she, another A addict, and her husband had two fox terrier. Every time that I revisited, these dogs became progressively aggressive toward each other. It became so intolerable that the couple had to put both dogs down. My gut tells me that she had something to do with their lack of emotional wellbeing but you and I both know about intuitive verses cognitive thinking.

  138. @Roy

    “My only issue is with the tone, or lack of appreciation for the dog-human relationship. ”

    I agree with these sentiments. I think the evidence overwhelming that there is more than mere quid pro quo dynamic going on. And while I am not as fond of cats as I am of dogs, I would say the same for cats having been associated with both.

    If you have never had a dog, I encourage having the experience whether the dog is a rescue or fresh pup.

  139. NYCTexan says:
    @Sbaker

    Or perhaps I do understand feminism, maybe even better than you. These two issues do not negate each other. They in fact reinforce. Do you realize that the greatest beneficiaries of feminism are not even the women; it’s certain elite men? Generally speaking (I can’t believe I have to make that clear but I’m sensing the need to be pedantic here) women do not really want power, not for very long any way. So when they get it (again generally- stay with me here) they tend to look to more powerful men to give it up to. Something tells me you’re not in the white collar world -perhaps you’re too young. But if you ever get there and you choose to open your eyes it will all be clear.

    Anyway don’t waste any more time debating me. Go read Henry Makow’s website for much better insights on feminism.

    Go with God.

  140. Alfred says:
    @renfro

    Where I am, in North Queensland, Australia, dog-owners are so fearful that you will never see any dog being walked in pedestrian shopping areas. They are afraid that if they leave the dog outside while they do some shopping, it will be stolen. There are plenty of dogs about, but not in town.

    Dog snatchers raid homes where dogs are kept. They watch neighbourhoods and mark houses with dogs. It is done professionally.

    There is a large clique that organises dog fights on a substantial scale. The amazing thing is that although this goes on in a rural area, no one seems to ever get caught. Plenty of money changes hands in these dog fights. Personally, I suspect that some people in authority must be complicit.

    I agree with you. These people should be put away.

    Lock up your dogs, red ribbon thieves in Roma

    https://www.qt.com.au/news/lock-up-your-dogs-red-ribbon-thieves-in-roma/3570746/

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  141. Biff says:
    @SteveH

    The feral dogs in Bangkok negotiate heavy traffic all the time. My dogs would get killed instantly if I let them loose, but the feral ones are quite used to their environment.

  142. Che Guava says:
    @NYCTexan

    I agree with FNN and Shaker’s replies to you.

    However, you can post pictures here. You just have to post or find them somewhere else, then set up the link. It is easy to check how it works.

  143. Anon[404] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sbaker

    I know for certain not all Lesbians hate men or even dislike them. So… how do I recognise a dyke?

  144. Che Guava says:
    @Alfred

    Alfred,

    Who are those people, and why are they doing it?

    I have been in Roma once, years ago, on a trip to go hiking in Carnarvon, on a visit when my parents were living for a time in Oz. No real time there, but a quiet, dusty town, semi-desert, it seemed a nice place. … but not in nth. Qld, unless one is counting anything north of Bris. to be nth. Qld.

    Having spent a little time there, my question above is serious. Are they local whites? Aborigines? Something else?

    It surprises me to hear of it.

    Also, to Renfro, it is great and very interesting to hear of your good work, but though the black cat you cite deserved rescue, I would exclude domestic cats in general. That is my own opinion. They are so damaging to wildlife.

    You have these multiple acres, what are you doing with the cats, just letting them go feral? Sure, the rescued dogs and horses, great. The cats?

    In Japan, they wreak a terrible toll on birds. As I said in the earlier post, they are too fat to take on a single rat.

    That is true in many other places, too.

    • Replies: @renfro
  145. @Polynices

    Did some very important info get omitted from this article? For instance, the conclusion: “You might like to compare these assessments with numbers of humans killed by dogs in the US. As you can see, the rates differ considerably. There are a longer list of breeds at the bottom of the table I have not included for brevity because they all killed one person, but the top killers are shown here.” references nothing at all in the body of the article, nor in the links quoted. Kinda sorry I bothered to read it now. What ‘assessments’, what ‘rates’, what ‘list’, what was not ‘included’and no link provided? I just found unz.com and this is the first article I read and despite the gargantuan number of interesting headlines, why on earth would I read more if this is the quality? Not trying to be rude, but help me out here, what did I miss.

    • Replies: @EliteComminc.
  146. OK, my bad, or rather i guess my puter or server bad, because after I posted my caustic comment, scrolled through a bunch of comments which I enjoyed, scrolled all the way back up to bottom of article, all of a sudden, charts which weren’t there before all of a sudden appeared. I have no explanation but that the material took some 15 minutes to load. So, ignore me.

  147. renfro says:
    @Che Guava

    You have these multiple acres, what are you doing with the cats, just letting them go feral?

    No the cats don’t go feral. They have their own buildings with large yards, you can buy special fencing for the yards. We have donated washers and dryers in many of the buildings which helps with keeping bedding and etc. clean. As I mentioned we have lots of volunteers and are also on the list of places where people can work off their court ordered ‘public service’ for various offense like traffic tickets and etc.. The house on the property was in good shape and we give it rent free to a couple for security reasons and who do some work also.
    We have all cats we rescue spayed or neutered if they aren’t already. So that makes it easier to keep them together without cat fights.
    The end goal of course is to have them adopted, if they aren’t we keep them.

  148. Cortes says:

    It’s early Sunday morning here in Alicante Province and the thought occurs to me:

    Do the Unz columnists have some kind of quarterly data fest to grade comment contributors?

    Yes, I am paranoid. But excessively so?

  149. @anonymous chris

    What more advocacy about biological constructs with ,missing links . . . no way.

    Hey, just ignore it. Maybe those references will show up later —- You didn’t miss a thing. I am not convinced that the references make a case against dogs. Humans and dogs have been in relationship for more than several thousand years some say as mush as 30,000 years and others suggest more.

    That is not going to change because some number don’t get and don’t want it. Sure in various places around the world more get killed by dogs than in the US. Especially areas in which the dogs run in wild packs. but history demonstrates a very strong symbiotic bond between humans and dogs. It’ll will something catastrophic or a very long period of divorce fro that to change.

  150. my2cents says:

    Good grief, the author knows nothing about dogs, admits not to have any interests in them but discovered that breeding is about GENETICS!! Really??? Only in America!!!
    I was raised by a man who was a horse breeder, and who is credited with having greatly improved the quality of the “cold bloods” in the Netherlands. He made his living writing about them….He was also a dog breeder and created TWO (2) chicken breeds that never existed before. In animal life it is all about genetics, and it was quite common in discussions at home that we ended up having 15 to 20 books on the table. It was around the 1930s that breeders of German Shepherds were ordered to consider the temperament of the Shepperd as it had only been domesticated since the turn of the century and was not considered, as yet, safe as a pet. It’s all about understanding genetics and responsible breeding.
    I am quite old and must say that I have never seen lists of people killed by dogs. What is very clear to me is that the majority of Americans should not have dogs. Daily I see in my small community people being walked BY their dog. They wonder why my dogs do not bark when passing their dogs.
    In every street corner we have a dog grooming place. I have had many dogs, NONE of them have ever seen the inside of a grooming salon, including my Cavalier King Charles. People who don’t know how to groom their dog should not have one. Dog owners who cannot control their dogs should not have any. Dogs are pack animals and the Alpha dog is the pack leader. In my home I am the Alpha Dog, the pack leader. Any dog that unprovoked bites a human being should be put down. Those were my father’s rules and they are my rules.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  151. @Sparkon

    Well concealed trail cameras would solve that problem, freeing up dog poop inspectors for more important task – but wait, dog face recognition software is still in the development stage.

  152. Really says:
    @Sparkon

    OMG! I was leaving the bag for myself to pick up on my way back down. Maybe you’re that self-righteous, smelly prick that was carrying several in his pocket, and lecturing everyone?

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Anon
  153. Sparkon says:
    @Really

    OMG! I was leaving the bag for myself to pick up on my way back down.

    Sure you were.

    The Rangers tell me that’s one of the top 10 excuses for Dog Poop Scofflaws.

    But now I’m curious. With so many bags of dog poop lying along the trail, what is your technique for finding your own little sack of the stinky stuff on your “way back down?” Can you give us a few tips for finding that one special bag?

    By the way, did you get your own bag of dog poop back from the smelly prick?

  154. fnn says:
    @Sollipsist

    Even worse, I recall reading that the theory was mainly based on observations of wolves in captivity.

  155. @Johann

    I contend that the average dog is nicer than the average person.

    Maybe because they have a better understanding of the ultimate meaning of life?

  156. @jbwilson24

    If only we could fund a program to make dog ownership popular among the more primitive of the earth’s denizens, like Bantu, Tamils, Pakis, Arabs and the like.

    I kinda liked or at least respected you until that. What kind of jerk would wish that fate on a dog?

  157. @Che Guava

    The commentor who was claiming that dogs are parasitic must have been Moslem. As several other commentors were saying, it has been a symbiotic relationship.

    Precisely, our only real parasite problems in the vertebrata sub-phylum are bi-pedal primates. A not insignificant number of them, I’m quite sure, profess to be Moslem..

  158. @my2cents

    Well,

    I take it you are saying that it possible to create an environment in which any dog could behave as your own. I take it your understanding of well behaved is reflected in your dogs. Which I consider peculiar that you state it’s all about genetics, yet your advocacy and life makes the opposing case.

    You are not a dog. Your genetics is not that of a dog, you don’t resemble a dog, yet your dogs according to you treat you as a dog. Not just a a dog, but the alpha dog. Something that genetic determinism would categorically prevent.

    • Replies: @Anon
  159. @Georg123

    “Personality? Complex interaction? Co-operation? – Forget it!”

    No, dogs have all of these things – hell, even cats have different personalities. As I said earlier, dogs and children are both things you have to have yourself before you see the appeal.

    Dogs are no substitute for children though. They actually go together pretty well.

    “Old widow loves her stupid, useless dog as much as she had loved her husband (and father of her children, and breadwinner) before that.”

    If you ever find yourself old and alone, maybe you’ll rethink. Dogs are good company. Humans are better, agreed.

  160. @EliteCommInc.

    “During WWI the British were keen on importing from their colonies certain populations they believed “good for the fight”. I would invite you to examine how that turned out.”

    No, they didn’t, but they did recruit from what were termed “the martial races” of India (Sikhs, Pathans, Jats, Gurkhas, Dogras etc) to fight, and they all (or at least the survivors) went home again.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_race

    It was after WW2, when the rulers of still-industrial Britain decided they didn’t want to pay higher wages to attract hospital, foundry and textile workers that “certain populations” were invited. You can see how that turned out by looking at the “crime” tab on the London Evening Standard or any city newspaper. Cheap labour comes at a price.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime

  161. fnn says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Which is why any geneticist will tell you that among populations when it comes to genetics a Somalian can have more in common genetically with a white in NYC than a black some 200 miles away.

    True, but misleading:
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2018/04/08/live-not-by-lies/

    Reich explains how recent genetic analysis shows that people’s genes cluster in ways that correspond pretty well with old-fashioned notions of ‘race’. He prefers to talk about ‘ancestry’, because (in his view) the word ‘race’ is too ill-defined and loaded with historical baggage. Whatever.

    He goes on to say that people that deny the possibility of substantial differences between populations just can’t do it anymore: they’re putting themselves in an indefensible position.

    Differences between populations/races:
    https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2017/12/19/how-to-be-different/

    Lewontin argued that there is more genetic variation within human populations than between them, so they can’t really be very different. Of course that’s bullshit: humans have the second-largest morphological variation of any mammal, behind only dogs. How do you get significant phenotypic differences between populations when there isn’t much Fst between them?

    One way (at the extreme) is to have a single allele, one that does a lot, vary strongly between populations: at the limit, be fixed in one and nonexistent in the other. There are not a lot of alleles like this in humans, but it happens. EDAR 370A is almost fixed in Northeast Asia, almost nonexistent in Europe and Africa: it results in thicker scalp hair, more numerous sweat glands, smaller breasts, funny teeth, and changes in the shape of the ears and chin. Just one allele: it would not show up noticeably in Fst.

    The way at the other extreme consists of small, systematic differences in the frequencies of many alleles that affect a particular trait. Suppose that 100 alleles influence height – there are plus and minus versions of those alleles, with the plus versions slightly increasing height while the minus versions slightly decreasing height. A systematic, smallish increase in the fraction of plus variants would make a population average taller: quite possibly a lot taller. But this only involves differences in a tiny fraction of the entire genome – the GWAS hits for height – so again, no noticeable change in Fst. You get these correlated changes from natural selection. For that matter, sweeps like EDAR 370A are also products of natural selection.

    According to Lewontin’s argument, Pygmies couldn’t really be hugely shorter than most other human populations. Yet they are short (five or six stds shorter), while Lewontin’s Fst argument is simply wrong. In fact the existence of Pygmies automatically disproved Lewontin’s argument, whether we understood the exact genetic basis or not. Counterexamples do that.

    • Replies: @j2
    , @EliteCommInc.
  162. j2 says:
    @fnn

    Polygenic score in GWAS is additive. Do you think it will explain genetic determination of traits to a nearly complete degree if studies use more samples? Seems that GWAS for height explains only 26.4% of height variation so far
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/274654v2
    How much do you think could be nonadditive genetic contribution?

    • Replies: @j2
    , @fnn
    , @res
  163. j2 says:
    @j2

    Obviously the relation is not fully additive, and though for diagnostic purposes an additive polygenic score may well suffice, for understanding the phenomenon it should be expressed as a sum of additive and nonadditive terms. To demonstrate that it is not additive it is enough to consider two gene alleles, which both are required for some functionality. If so, then the combination is a product of occurances of these alleles, not a sum.

  164. fnn says:
    @j2

    Go to Greg Cochran’s blog and ask him. He answers questions.

    • Replies: @j2
  165. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Georg123

    Gay men use their dogs that way too. In some cities when leash laws are in the ballot the slogan of the gay & lesbian dog lovers is “. We don’t demand that you leash your children don’t ask us to leash yours”

  166. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Really

    I used to pick up the dog poop from my driveway with a trowel and stuff it in the mailboxes of the owners of the dogs who ran free night and day

    There’s a reason why people poison dogs. Keep your dog in your fenced yard and on a leash and it won’t cause neighbors to hate both your dog and you.

    Let your dog run wild night and day, charging at people, menacing them, biting, pooping knocking over garbage cans and other typical bad dog behavior encouraged by their owners and who knows what might happen to it.

    Another thing I used to do was take them to the pound and not leave my name. The curs didn’t have license tags so they couldn’t be identified.

    Let your dog poop in my driveway will you?

  167. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Most dog owners are totally submissive to their alpha dogs

  168. j2 says:
    @fnn

    OK, I wrote the question to his blog, I rather doubt he answers, but we’ll see.

  169. res says:
    @j2

    Currently height is at about 40%: http://www.genetics.org/content/210/2/477

    It looks like that is near the limit for additive genetic contribution to height. Larger sample sizes should allow them to detect nonlinear effects as well.

    • Replies: @j2
  170. j2 says:
    @res

    Thanks, because it is probable that the additive part (polygenic score) is a similar share of genetically determined part also for other traits. That is, why genes for one trait should much differ from genes for another trait. So, if height is 60-80% genetic and polygenic score 40%, it gives 20-40% nonadditive. Possible.

  171. @fnn

    I think we are talking about something very different. And my comment goes to point that skin color is not a trait without other major biological differences. Skin color is not to height any more than blonde hair muscle density.

    For example, black is merely skin color, attempting to lump human beings according to skin color abuses the ethnicity and nationality. A black from Guyana is going have biodiversity differences among blacks from Swaziland, or Trinidad or an Egyption . . . in tracing migration patterns, it would not be surprising to find that a black from Swaziland had more genetically in common with a white in Germany than a black in South Africa.

    We have been historically very sloppy regarding black biology as though biodiversity is nt as diverse among the same.

    • Replies: @fnn
  172. fnn says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    “Black skin” is not a race/ancestry group. Australian and New Guinea natives and Filipino negrito pygmies are not more closely related to Sub-Saharans than they are, for example, to Europeans.

  173. Mike says:
    @Colin Wright

    The aggression that was seen was not due to who owned the dogs entirely. It was more who was breeding the dogs. When people with no clue about genetics are breeding dogs to be aggressive and aggression also being highly heritable that would fall in line with this paper

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