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Armageddon: James Flynn on Academic Freedom and Race
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Jim_Flynn_Political_Studies_University_of_Otago

In the great cultural war which surrounds race and intelligence, James Flynn is on the side of the angels. I know this because he told me so. Happily, I know him well enough to know he was joking: he was admitting that he was well aware that his mostly environmentalist perspective was far more acceptable and popular than the much maligned “genes and environment” view that I hold. His remark was merely an aside in a longer conversation, of the sort one has with notable academics, in that they range widely over many topics, with the easy pace born of a deep interest in a whole range of ideas.

Last night I saw a very good performance of “Uncle Vanya” at the Hampstead Theatre (runs till 12 January) and, enjoy it as I did, within the somber bounds of Russian gloom, I would prefer a minute with James Flynn to 3 hours of Chekhov. Indeed, I think I avoid theatre because the ideas-per-minute payoff is usually lower than normal conversation with interesting people.

I digress. Flynn is good company, and a great champion of academic freedom. Last year I came to the attention of hostile critics, seeking to hound researchers who were already having to meet without publicity in private conferences, fearful of losing research grants and university posts because of wanting to research race, sex and historical cohort differences, which may strengthen or weaken the hypothesis that genes account for about half of the variance in individual and possibly group differences.

The general climate of opinion in Western universities is so hostile to genetic hypotheses about race, sex and cohort differences in intellectual ability that my initial wish in 2011 to have public meetings on these matters was dismissed by potential speakers. They told me I was naïve to believe that they could discuss such matters in public without encountering considerable career damage. I thought they were exaggerating. I was wrong. So, I went for a compromise: invitation-only meetings, no audience and little publicity, and very few outside invitees: family members, a few readers of my blog, the occasional journalist for background only.

Even with those precautions, some researchers who wanted to attend sent me private emails saying why they felt they could not. They explained that at their universities they were already under threat for even considering these topics. One said, presciently, that critics would pick on the one attendee who could be shown to have said or written something reprehensible, and then all participants would be tarred with the same brush. Most researchers, understandably, said they were busy or simply did not reply to my invitation. No shame. There are too many conferences.

Anyway, once the ravening pack were piling in to attack the conference for, among other crimes, having been “secret”, I explained to all my colleagues that there was a hostile press campaign under way. The first to write back to me in support of academic freedom was James Flynn.

Now Flynn has written a paper about academic freedom and race. Here is a summary, and a critique of some points.

ABSTRACT
There should be no academic sanctions against those who believe that were environments equalized, genetic differences between black and white Americans would mean that blacks have an IQ deficit. Whether the evidence eventually dictates a genetically caused deficit of nil or 5 or 10 or 20 IQ points is irrelevant. The hypothesis is intelligible and subject to scientific investigation. If that is so, you must have already investigated it if you are to know what is true or false. To prohibit others from investigation or publication of their results is to designate certain truths as the property of an elite to be forbidden to anyone else. It is to insulate them from whatever new evidence the scientific method may provide that would modify belief. A word to those who seek respectability by banning race/gene research: how much respectability would you get if your position were stated without equivocation? What if you were to openly say genetic equality between the races may or may not be true; and that is exactly why I forbid it to be investigated. Or: “I do not know if genetic equality is true and do not want anyone else to know.

https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Flynn-2018.pdf

I wish to say that scholars who hold the genetic hypothesis are not thereby, guilty of racial bias. There is no doubt in my mind that Arthur Jensen was innocent of this (Flynn, 2013). Moreover, research into this question should not be forbidden.

You might think it odd that Flynn has to say this, but there have been so many foolish statements to that effect, such as saying that the only reason to study race differences is to perpetrate racism (as if the only reason to find out if something is true is to then perpetuate a lie) that he is wise to correct misapprehensions.

Flynn then looks at a few weak arguments which purport to show that you cannot study the hypothesis that races differ in intelligence for genetic reasons. For example, that because races are sociologically defined they cannot differ genetically. Tell that to the Pygmies and the Watusi, says Flynn.

Flynn also makes a very interesting point about race and culture: no test is culture free, but if you cannot manage the culture where you live, then you will understandably be at a disadvantage. If you are really tuned to another culture then you face a choice: travel to where that culture is prevalent, or hang on with the culture that does not match your preferences, but provides you with other benefits. Since Flynn’s perspective is largely cultural, he freely gives his opinion that black subculture is a barrier to scholastic achievement. I think it hardly helps, but it may be irrelevant, since what matters is why some African Americans are drawn to non-intellectual rebellion in the first place. Thomas Sowell argues that the current sub-culture is a relatively new phenomenon, and that formerly African Americans were far closer to American cultural norms, particularly as regards marriage and family life.

Flynn continues:

We no longer hear much from those who once proposed a fourth argument: that all races share so many genes in common that it would be absurd to look for genetic differences (note: even this argument assumes the question is subject to investigation; they just think the answer is as obvious as height differences between Watusi and pigmies). We share 99% of our genes with Bonobo Chimpanzees. That 1% makes a huge difference in cognitive capacity: one hundredth of 1% might make a huge difference between socially identified groups.

When I was under attack, I got some wry amusement from hearing my critics trot out that argument, which I thought had been dropped in 1975.

Flynn notes an interesting phenomenon in universities:

A few years ago I addressed scholars at one of America’s most distinguished universities who admitted that they had never approved a research grant that might clarify whether black and white had equivalent genes for IQ. I had some suggestions and said I knew that they might have reasons for ignoring them other than pessimism: they were just intimidated by the public furor that would ensue. That was not fair because they could not publicly admit that they curtailed scholarly research because of intimidation. They had to argue that the most trivial grant they had approved (something like whether chipmunks like Mozart) was more important than clarifying the causes of racial differences. This may seem to prejudice the outcome of a systematic investigation. I do not intend this. The research should be done no matter what the outcome, as I will show. I am merely asking those who would forbid research to be honest (at least to themselves) about their own beliefs.

I should add that, to my cost, I have discovered another motive that discourages research. Let us assume that it is not genes that cause the black IQ deficit. Then it must be environment and if it is environment, the most immediate environment, namely, black subculture, must be examined. If causes exist there, we will hear rhetoric about blaming the victim. For example, a relevant cause might be black child-rearing practices. However, to avoid criticism, I am not going to disempower blacks by keeping them ignorant. Note the penalty for ignoring reality: no knowledge of causes, hard to alter effects.

[]
I know of no alternative to the scientific method to maximize accumulation of truth about the physical world and the causes of human behavior. If scholars are to debate this issue, do we not want the best evidence possible–and this can only come from science.

That final paragraph is important, particularly the first line, which should be cherished.

Those who believe in the relative equality of the races may choose not to research race and IQ, but they have not thereby discovered something that turns all beliefs into ones of which they approve. There has never been a time since World War II during which all Americans had more “progressive” views on race than Arthur Jensen. He always emphasized overlap between the races for genes for IQ and stated that the brightest person in America might well be a black male (no sexism: there is some evidence that black women have a higher mean IQ than black males).
[]
There will be bad science on both sides of the debate. The only antidote I know for that is to use the scientific method as scrupulously as possible.
[]
Everyone knows that universities apply sanctions to alter behaviour among academics that refuse to accept the advice given thus far. A stated intention of doing race/gene research on a vita will mean no job; doing that research may mean no tenure, no promotion, no research grants, or even a campaign for dismissal. Some like Jensen, who are at a prestige university such as Berkeley, survive.
[]
The use of sanctions against those who do not confine their views on race and IQ to the common room dictates limiting debate to the faculty, and turns an environmentalist position into a dogma in the sense that no wider discussion is allowed. That includes your students; and, of course, no sign of dissent can be allowed to reach the public (no frank interviews given, no research pursued, etc.). There are almost no courses on intelligence in Psychology departments in America. When I ask staff why, they give the same answer: what if a student raised a hand and said, what do you think about the race and IQ debate? You either have a potted lying answer that makes the debate seem simpler than it is (every sophisticated environmentalist knows that Jensen has a case to answer), or you say, “well that goes beyond the scope of this course” (why?), or you admit heresy.

Flynn notes that banning consideration of genetic aspects of intelligence can lead to injustice:

We need not be fanciful to assess the price of ignorance. Assume that the entire IQ gap between school children today (10 points) is genetic. Take the principal of a high school in an affluent neighborhood where both black and white students all come from professional homes. The principal may be doing everything he or she can think of to give the best education to all. However, if black students get worse grades than white students, there will inevitably be suspicion of institutional racism.
[]
The following is not always true, but the constituency that wants to ban race/genes research includes many who have a “shoot the messenger mentality”. They try to discredit IQ tests. I will not digress to show how mistaken they are but will only say that IQ tests provide priceless data about the cognitive development of parents and their children and the injustices the latter may suffer (Flynn, 2016).

Flynn concludes:

My most important point is this. The race and IQ debate has taken on the role of Armageddon, a war between the forces of righteousness (the environmentalists) and the armies of the night (those who posit genetic differences). This fixation has overshadowed the fact that there are real people out there. When they try to improve the prospects of their children, they will not be attempting to score one more point for the environmental side of the race and IQ debate. Enormously helpful things have come to light without regard as to which side of the debate was being argued. Jensen’s point that equating for SES does not close the black/white IQ or educational achievement gap was a step forward. Moore’s point that factors more subtle than SES seemed to count was another step forward. Scholars should stop playing games and let science do its job. Those of us who have turned their research into a contest rather than a diagnosis should be ashamed. I am not exempt from this censure.

Comment: all of us find it hard not to be partisan. It may be due to political leanings, deep personality characteristics, quasi-religious convictions, or simply effort justification: one takes up a position based on what one was taught at school or university, does the necessary selective reading and gets a good mark, and is then reluctant to be told that one’s efforts were wasted, and that much more reading is required.

Flynn continues:

Perhaps someday we will conclude that a portion of the present gap will prove to be genetic in origin. I do not want to sugar the pill but will only say I am not too alarmed. Unless you believe black and white environments are today equivalent, genes will count for less than 10 points among school children. But even that would mean that the group socially-classified as black will on average have somewhat worse social statistics for unemployment, crime, and so forth. And the free market will always penalize black individuals to some degree by making it rational to classify them as members of their group rather than incur the cost of getting to know them as individuals. A landlady with a room to rent is confronted with a female Korean American and a black male youth. She will not hire a private detective to check them out. She is likely to play the statistical odds: an almost sure thing versus someone from a group one-third of whom are convicted felons.

Comment: it is good to see this point made. Ideally, everyone should be judged on their merits. Absent that possibility on grounds of time or cost, it is rational to be guided by group averages, imperfect as they are in individual cases. For example, in choosing someone for childcare, applicants without a criminal record will be preferred to those with one, even though many of the convicted felons may now be going straight.

A group difference is sometime characterized as having nothing to say about individuals. That is wrong. A correlation picks up a general tendency which applies to all constituent parts. The statistic may be a weak predictor, but its power in the individual case is not zero.

Here is Flynn’s final question:

A final word to those who seek respectability by banning race/gene research: how much respectability would you get if your position were stated without equivocation? After all, those who refuse to investigate genetic equality between the races cannot label it true; yet if you openly say it may not be true would you not reap the whirlwind? Honesty dictates this assertion: “I do not know if genetic equality is true and do not want to know.” Say that, and see if your views are deemed innocent rather than pernicious.

Flynn has written a fine and trenchant essay. I hope it will be widely read, particularly by those who see academic debates as essentially a cultural battle, and expect him to be against any consideration of genetic factors in racial differences just as a matter of tribal loyalty. Flynn has not resiled from his environmentalist position. This is not about his religious conversion. As always, Flynn is standing up for the view that questions of fact should be determined by facts, and that arguments should be evaluated on their merits. Those who want Flynn to be against any mention of genetics will be discomfited. I hope they will not accuse him of having abandoned a sacred crusade. He never sought priestly status, and never called his central finding “the Flynn effect”. That was done by Charles Murray, who also coined “the Woodley effect” thus correctly and succinctly naming the two competing views of historical trends in intelligence test scores.

I would go further than James Flynn, and say that those who wish to prevent research into race and intelligence imagine that they are excused dishonesty because they are lying for a good cause. Not only have they brow-beaten many into silence, but they have generated a climate of self-censorship in which the suppression of inconvenient findings is accepted. They seem to believe that if the truth were known that there is a genetic component in racial differences in intelligence, no-one would be judged on their merits and pogroms would ensue. They, it seems, are the self-appointed high priests who decide what the common folk may know, and damn the unfairness which may result.

Will Flynn’s essay make them reconsider their hostility? Flynn doubts it, and so do I. They might be more likely to reject his argument without having fully considered it. It may be effort justification, or it may be divine inspiration, but the rejection of the possibility of genetic explanations for human differences appears to be implacable. Perhaps I am being too gloomy about this, and the mob is at its most ferocious when they sense the tide of discovery is flowing against them.

Once again, my thanks to James Flynn for being the first to support me when I was under attack.

 
The Race/IQ Series
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  1. I like Flynn but his constant references to the Eyferth study makes me wonder. He must be aware of the biological basis for g and studies such as Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study.

  2. Eyferth is an old standby. However, every position in great debates tends to have favourites. For example, we now have much better adoption data than before, generally showing little effect of adoption on intelligence.

    • Replies: @res
  3. Eyferth is unique in that it concerns children raised outside of the black subculture in the USA. I don’t think the results are all that surprising given the age the children were tested and that the black fathers were an elite sample. And if you take the odd white girls sample out (IQ of 93) it’s consistent with strong hereditarianism.

    And we now have Kierkegaard et als genetic based admixture study which to my mind ends the debate.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
    , @res
  4. Mike D. says:

    I’m shocked that Mr. Thompson is still shocked that race denialists used the ‘1% difference’ comment.

    We’re talking about a group of people who don’t realize that Lewontin’s idiocy on taxonomy has been known as Lewontin’s Fallacy for over a decade (and shattered by Witherspoon totally in 2007) because they only bother to learn trendy catechisms about race egalitarianism from scientific illiterates.

    That’s probably one of their least offensive beliefs.

  5. @Joey James

    Admixture measures are simple, but powerful, particularly when an effect is found at national, regional and small area scale.

  6. res says:
    @James Thompson

    But is Eyferth an old standby because it is a good study or because it gives conclusions agreeable to certain people? Both possibilities are in play, but I think if you made a 2D plot of studies against “study quality” and “conclusions agreeable to SJWs” Eyferth’s position on it would be instructive. It would be interesting to extend such a plot to 3D to include number of citations as well. ; )

    In my opinion anyone who strongly advocates for the importance of the Eyferth study without acknowledging the selection bias issues created by the US Army intelligence screening has outed themselves as being disingenuous. IMHO that is actually a pretty good sincerity screen in this debate.

    Speaking of Eyferth, Current Year Wikipedia is more balanced than I expected in this section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyferth_study#Interpretations

    Has anyone ever come up with a good explanation for the anomalous results for white girls?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyferth_study#Results

    P.S. Thanks for your highlighting of this paper along with your comments. Flynn’s position is very interesting given that if anything might be considered more racist than genetics causing the B/W gap it is the assertion that it is (partly, largely, at all?) due to Black culture. I wonder how the gap portions between those two explanations and “other.” And kudos to James Flynn for both standing up for you and writing this paper.

    • Replies: @Mike D.
  7. Mike D. says:
    @res

    I’ve always thought that was one of the most fascinating implications of the “but it’s culture” argument that seems to be completely ignored.

    Ignoring the fact that there is no overarching ‘black’ culture to begin with, anyone taking this position is advancing the argument that no, blacks are just as smart as everyone else – they just choose to be more criminally inclined and violent than the rest of us, and exult a culture that glorifies both in addition to being adverse to education.

    Sounds a bit more “racist” than the genetic argument to me, but what do I know.

  8. res says:
    @Joey James

    Here’s a link to Emil’s blog post about that study: https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?p=6246

    He does not think it is quite definitive. But IMO the results are compelling to anyone with an open mind.

    Despite the selection bias issues, I think the Million Veteran Program offers the best potential in this area: https://www.research.va.gov/mvp/
    Blacks are well represented in the US military and they should be able to tie in AFQT data.

    Speaking of all of this, does anyone know how well skin color can be predicted from a PGS (polygenic score) at present? This is the best recent result I see, but they use five categories rather than measured skin brightness: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5487854/

    • Replies: @Hail
  9. Eyferth is cited because it supports the claim that the black subculture in the USA is so bad that it depresses IQ. So bad in fact that post Nazi germany is better. If blacks and whites who go to the same school show the familiar 15 point gap then what else could explain it?

    • Replies: @Freespirit
  10. @Mike D.

    they just choose to be more criminally inclined and violent than the rest of us, and exult a culture that glorifies both in addition to being adverse to education.

    That would never be their conclusion. Racism is the answer to every question. Blacks don’t choose to be more criminally inclined and violent than the rest of us, it’s white racism (is there any other kind in their minds) that causes them to act this way. Slavery/colonialism destroyed their family structure and culture. Jim Crow kept them at low-level jobs and little education, further harming their culture. Finally, white stereotyping, unconscious bias and media portrayals (yeah, I know, what about all those black doctors and IT experts) continue to cause blacks to see themselves as criminals rather than IQ equals of whites.

    Goodwhites would never be racist. Black cultures was destroyed by Badwhites, and that’s what makes blacks act the way that they do.

    It’s really quite simple when you understand the mindset.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
  11. Anon[391] • Disclaimer says:

    The general climate of opinion in Western universities is so hostile to genetic hypotheses about race, sex and cohort differences in intellectual ability

    .

    What that means is: everybody in Western universities (and wherever hostility to genetic “hypotheses” is strong) believes the genetic “hypotheses” to be true.

  12. these learned disquisitions on Race and IQ are beyond irritating.

    I don’t care who can move colored blocks around more facilely.

    level of sustained civilization over time proves that Whites are orders of magnitude more intelligent, culturally creative, and sci/technologically apt than Blacks, Latinos, ashkenazic Jews, Muslim semites, and static/imitative east Asians.

    and that’s why the Jews are liquidating the Whites and their civilization:

    (((they))) cannot stand the dissonance.

    • Agree: MikeatMikedotMike
    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @Anon
    , @EH
  13. Hail says: • Website
    @res

    Thanks. It seems to pair 1,391 U.S. individuals with self-identified race and genetic-ancestry test results, to estimate hypothetical racial-component IQs:

    In this sample, the mean IQ by ancestry was approximately 100 for European, 78 for African, and 86 for Amerindian.

    These seems to refer to “racial stock” and not actual people; i.e., a hypothetical person with exactly 50% Amerindian and 50% European would be IQ 93 (i.e., 186/2) using these scores. A hypothetical person with exactly 50% Subsaharan and 50% European would be 89.

    If we use the values from the main main for cognitive ability (Table 12), the African genotypic IQ estimate has a 95% confidence interval from 70 to 82 IQ, and for Amerindian from 74 to 92 IQ.

    Dated April 25, 2018. There should be a lot more studies like this.

    Data from:

    the PING (Pediatric Imaging, Neurocognition, and Genetics; (Akshoomoff et al., 2014)) dataset. PING is a neuroscientific dataset based on a large sample (n = 1,493) of healthy American children and youths, ages 3 to 21, of diverse ancestries

    Of which 101 did not have genetic ancestry data available, hence n=1,391.

    571 identified as Whites
    328 identified as Hispanics
    140 identified as Black
    122 identified as Asian
    186 identified as multiethnic (of which, one-third White+Asian)
    44 other

    Tables 8 and 9 give mean genomic ancestry and st.deviations for each of the above.

    • Replies: @res
  14. res says:
    @Hail

    There should be a lot more studies like this.

    No one seems eager to perform them. In this case it appears the data release was accidental. See the discussion in this comment thread: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/income-brain-race-and-big-gap/#comment-1683141

  15. Lin says:

    There’re 3 issues regarding the ‘IQ’ thingie:
    1)Statistics: Seems to be quite consistent(though with some well established trend like black IQ is slowly improving.) Wealthy, well fed, well financed oil rich arabs don’t seem to have that higher IQ than poorer arabs.
    2)Which weights more,genetics/hereditary or environment?
    ………….
    I think this part is the playground. Let me give a parallel example: The Dutch are the tallest human on earth; the white nationalists sure will claim it must be due to superior Nordic genes. But mind you 200 years ago, the Dutch were relatively short people, definitely shorter than their neighbors; so the IQ PC environmentalists would claim: see, nutrition and environment are all it counts. BUT IT TOOK THE DUTCH 200 YRS TO BECOME THE TALLEST.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/08/scientists-try-to-answer-why-dutch-people-are-so-tall
    …………
    I’m an IQ ’empiricist’. I just don’t bother with the argument.
    3)How to deal with the IQ difference:
    –To ask low IQ ethnic groups to accept IQ geneticism is like asking them to ‘accept’ their racial ‘inferiority’. Regardless how one looks at it, it’s immoral.
    –Ethnic groups said to have low IQ should put education of their young on war footing; unfortunately it doesn’t happen often.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @EH
  16. research into this question should not be forbidden

    What a pretty pass we’ve come to as a society when such an assertion is considered bold.

  17. ABSTRACT
    There should be no academic sanctions against those who believe that were environments equalized, genetic differences between black and white Americans would mean that blacks have an IQ deficit.

    ABSTRACT
    “There should be no academic sanctions against those who believe that were environments equalized, genetic differences between black and Jewish, Asian, Indian and White Americans would mean that blacks have an IQ deficit.”

    There. Fixed that. Start the premise off with the gad-damned truth for a change, with the Jewish, Asians and Indians included. And in roughly the correct order in terms of IQ, switch them around as you wish? Why should Whites get the evil eye in this when it’s Jews, Asians and the floods of Indians that constitute the real brains and in sheer numbers that cause problems for admission officers and HR folks? Aren’t Whites next to Blacks and the Jews, Asians and Indians higher-up in IQ and numbers? If we’re going to quote race, let’s talk turkey, let’s talk Jews, Asians and Indians. “Whites”? Why do Whites get all the credit? After all, the Jews, Asians and Indians are the meritorious ones the Unis are trying to cope with the numbers on. Yet the problem for Blacks is…Whites? Really!

    Because the root of the matter is the Blacks. They don’t pack the gear to function in First World technical/scientific/university environments. Fine. But don’t blame ME (ok, ok, not me, I’m a moron, not college material, but excuse me for noticing the inequity in all this) for it. There are other actors. They should be NAMED.

  18. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Goodwhites would never be racist. Black cultures was destroyed by Badwhites, and that’s what makes blacks act the way that they do. It’s really quite simple when you understand the mindset.

    Taken from a realtor’s mindset, it gets even simpler. Gated and not, Toll Brother’s McMansion communities throughout Northern Virginia are packed exclusively with the Good Whites of universities and industry and Jewish heritage who turned Red State Virginia completely Blue.

    No one stays away from diversity better than GoodWhites. Well, except for the diversity of their Hispanic housekeepers and landscapers. Hispanics, because the Blacks, because you know, they steal the silver. I heard THAT a million times off the record as I installed their phones and screens and sound systems after they moved in.

  19. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    White racism together with (white = 0ppressive) history did the harm. And harm must have been done, since if not, you had no way to explain the obvious differences between black and white.

    In such contexts, it would make sense to look upon the specific way in which history is used, as just another way of neurotic defense mechanisms (mainly rationalizations).

  20. A lot of words about simple matter.
    In our parliament Hiddema, lawyer, member of the new ‘racist, fascist, nationalist, nazi, whatever’ political party FvD stated something like ‘if the average IQ of a Syrian migrant is sixty, this is translated into into income’.

    Forgot where I read about what a USA black lady seems to have said, something like ‘blacks do have a lower IQ, but should be financially compensated for this’.
    It is a long time ago since I read ‘The rise of the meritocacy’, it is not even in my list.
    But I do remember the philosophical question I then had ‘is there merit in a meritocracy ?’.

    In other words, why are highly intelligent people morally justified in having, most of the time, higher incomes ?
    This of course is a purely academic question, I never met anyone who proposed a tax on IQ.

    But I suppose that the taboo on discussing or investigating IQ differences has to do with this matter.

    • Replies: @Marty
  21. ‘Race’ here in the UK is entirely self-selecting on the Census Form. You cannot give a wrong answer.
    ‘IQ’ has been shown, like the tall Dutch people, to be fluid over generations.

    So statisticians can say nothing useful about either concept. All else is just philosophical wank.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Peter Johnson
  22. It was very good of Dr Flynn to stand up for you. He’s in the fortunate position of being world-famous and in his 80s, but he didn’t have to do it, and it’s great that he has.

    He seems like that rara avis – someone avowedly left-wing but with integrity. Perhaps he was fortunate to grow up in an age when free speech and free enquiry was a left-wing position.

  23. In the great cultural war which surrounds race and intelligence, James Flynn is on the side of the angels

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    It’s you ready to go do heaven**

  24. Could someone please enlighten me?

    I am under the general impression that the term “IQ” stands for “Intelligence Quotient” and that it is a measure of a child’s intellectual development age divided by their physical age.

    So if a given 3-year-old has already developed the intellectual capacity of an average 6-year-old, then that 3-year-old would be said to have an IQ of 200. And vice versa. If a given 6-year-old had only the intellectual capacity of a 3-year-old, then they would have or be said to have an IQ of 50.

    So if I am 60 and claim to have an IQ of 200, then does that mean that I have the intellectual capacity of a 120-year-old? If I am 120 and have the intellectual capacity of a 60-year-old, then does that mean I have an IQ of 50?

    It seems to me that even if there were no flaws in the test or testing procedures, the thing being measured is more akin to a car’s acceleration-from-zero (or “off the line”) yet most everyone seems to use it as a measure of potential-top-speed.

    Remember Donovan Bailey who won the gold medal in the 100 meters at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta? He was different from most of the people before or after him who also held the title of “world’s fastest man”.

    He always started slow relative to the rest of the field, but had this amazing mid-race acceleration that allowed him to blow by the rest of the field in the last 20 meters or so of the race.

    Likewise not all children develop at the same rate right out of the womb so to speak. And some who learn very quickly as small children do not necessarily maintain it throughout their lives. They peak early, and then level off closer to average or normal.

    I am just trying to get a handle on just what exactly it is being measured and presented as a DNA-level unchanging thing.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  25. siamdave says: • Website

    ” Then it must be environment and if it is environment, the most immediate environment, namely, black subculture, must be examined.” – uh-uh, and this puts all the high-sounding ideas into serious question – very, very obviously, the primary environmental factor affecting the black community even today is a long, long history of oppression by the dominant white race in the US, oppression rooted in centuries of vile, soul-destroying slavery, the remnants of the slave-owner attitude still not insignificant in substantial subsections of the whites in the US. Even though many steps have been taken to try to even things out, and many blacks are accepted as equals in large areas of the US, blacks are still highly oppressed in many places, and this is the very obvious first environmental factor that must be considered – indeed, the oppression has been going on so long, and its effects so deeply ingrained in the ‘genetic memory’ of the black community, that it will probably be another century before comparing IQs can even be considered a possibility.

    • Replies: @EH
  26. Flynn also makes a very interesting point about race and culture: no test is culture free, but if you cannot manage the culture where you live, then you will understandably be at a disadvantage.

    Though an important addendum would be, as Greg Cochran pointed out, that industrial civilization is pretty much the only game in town.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Mr. XYZ
  27. dearieme says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    “level of sustained civilization over time proves that Whites are orders of magnitude more …”

    To sustain that argument all you need is a profound ignorance of history.

    • Agree: Bliss, Durruti, Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Logan
  28. @TimothyPMadden

    No. Mental age/chronological age ratio calculation dropped a century ago. Now measured as deviation from population average, and also shown as percentile rank.

  29. Thank you for that.

    So IQ is no longer something that is considered fixed, but rather a changing thing throughout one’s life?

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  30. utu says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    “the only game in town” – Maybe, but for how long? Putin said that the world will not exist w/o Russia, meaning that if Russia will fall furthers behind Russians will destroy the whole world. Africans are even in the worse situation than Russians and if you take their hope away from them what do you think would happen? Taking away the hope is exactly what our poor persecuted Giordano Brunos of Ulster Institute want to do in the name of truth and academic freedom.

  31. dearieme says:
    @Lin

    The Dutch have been well known to Britons for centuries. (Heavens, 20,000 gave us a visit in 1688.) There was no talk of their being particularly tall until recent times – after WWII I suspect.

    • Replies: @Anon
  32. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Conall Boyle

    I doubt if you are acquainted with the vast literature pertaining to IQ, what it signifies, how it is measured and much more but do tell us what you make of the persistent approx. one standard deviation difference between white and black average IQs in the USA over the last 100 years while the (obviously not genetic) Flynn Effect has played out.

    And to say that “IQ has been shown, like the tall Dutch people [sic!!! – I think “height” is the word you need] to be fluid over the generations” is as ill-informed as it is illiterate. Dutch height has been a function of nutrition (mostly) and disease control. IQ measures processing speed and working/short term memory in particular. That explains a lot of cognitive ability.The measurements exemplifying the Flynn Effect reflect multiple factors that actually support the view that genetic factors are probably the reason why, over 100 years of increasing test scores, African- Americans remain one standard deviation below whites.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  33. Logan says:
    @dearieme

    Quite.

    What most “white advocates” think of as “white,” northwestern European, was a serious backwater civilizationally till considerably less than a millenium ago. The “static/imitative” East Asians were usually the world leaders in inventiveness till about 500 years ago.

    For some unknown to me reason their level of innovation fell off a cliff around then, both relatively and absolutely. But over the last 3000 years China was pretty consistently out in front of the rest of the world. Relatively brief and localized exceptions aside.

  34. Why, Dr Thompson, do you regard the Flynn Effect and the Woodley Effect as “competing” views when they both appear to be true according to credible statistics and analysis? Wouldn’t “complementary” be more accurate?

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  35. dearieme says:
    @Anon

    “Dutch height has been a function of nutrition (mostly) and disease control. ” I understand that, on the contrary, nobody really knows why the Dutch have suddenly leapt in height.

    Am I out of date on this?

    • Replies: @Anon
  36. dearieme says:
    @Logan

    Indeed, you can go further. The only places that were central to the advance of European innovation and prosperity were first the North Italians, then the Dutch/Belgians, then – much the most important – the British. Everyone else – even the French, Germans and Americans – were essentially passengers on this unique leap. It’s all very odd, but there you are.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Anon
  37. The division and hysteria and propaganda coming out of the universities and in society in general is all part of the Zionist plan for a satanic NWO, for proof read these books, The Controversy of Zion by Douglas Reed and The Committee of 300 by Dr. John Coleman and The Protocols of Zion, it is all right there!

  38. @TimothyPMadden

    A person’s rank is reasonably stable, say correlation of 0.7 from age 11 to age 75, but the nature of the absolute level changes, in that fluid intelligence peaks at, say ages 18-21, processing speed similarly, and vocabulary continues rising for a long time until say 60-70 years of age.
    Ian Deary’s work on long term cognitive ability the best in the world on this.

    • Replies: @res
  39. @Logan

    David Landes ventured various explanations.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  40. I think it’s interesting that nobody who argues against racial differences in intelligence ever tries to disprove the existence of racial differences in intelligence. Instead they make other claims.

    They claim that intelligence isn’t real.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9755929/IQ-tests-do-not-reflect-intelligence.html

    That race isn’t real.
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/

    Or my personal favorite; that racial differences in intelligence might exist, but we shouldn’t try to know.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/07/race-iq-debate-serves-no-purpose/

    The reason they do this is that racial differences in intelligence have been proven thousands of times over. Races differ in spatial reasoning, verbal intelligence, mathematical skills, brain size, and more. If biological racial differences in intelligence explain the achievement gap then the rationale for the therapeutic state programs to help bridge that gap goes away. If relative failure or success isn’t caused by discrimination, but by ability then anti-discrimination measures are window dressing. If students fail because they are naturally less intelligent giving education czars more money won’t make rocket scientists out of D students.

    All of those potential cuts to the bureaucracies, managerial elite rationales, and vainglorious hope are too terrifying to consider. So instead our intellectual class proposes we ignore reality.

  41. @Logan

    Ever heard of The Grand Menhir Brisée, Gavrinis, Barnenez, Stonehenge, oppida in France, Alesia ?
    Ever visited the Kelten Museum in Halle Austria ?
    Ever read anything about bronze and iron production ?
    Ever heard about Ötzi, he travelled with implements and clothes made out wood of 26 different trees.
    His bronze axe is supposed to have been made by himself.
    And maybe
    Alexander Thom, ‘Megalithic Lunar Observatories’, Oxford, 1971, 1978
    could enlighten you somewhat, as
    Lynn White Jr., ‘Medieval Technology and Social Change’, Oxford 1962
    Or do you still believe Roman war propaganda about the barbarians ?

    • Replies: @Pheasant
  42. @James Thompson

    So did Paul Kennedy. IIRC his thesis was that Europe 1200-1800, politically divided, often at war, and open to trade, fostered a much faster pace of competitive technical innovation than unified China, which closed in after Cheng Ho’s voyages and banned foreign trade. This enabled Europe to first catch and then surpass China.

    He points out that around the time of Hastings, Chinese steel output was higher than Britain’s would be until 1840.

    Now if only we can have the technical innovation without the war…

  43. Thanks James! That is extremely helpful.

    I will certainly check out the references. Thanks again.

    My own experience and observations lead me to believe that higher intelligence is a function of the balance achieved between language skills and math skills. That 80 / 80 for example, is better than 90 / 70 either way.

    • Replies: @utu
  44. anon[153] • Disclaimer says:

    If Africans moved back to Africa and lived with their own people would you spend this much time worrying about how smart they are compared to whites. No one worries about how smart whites are compared to others like Jews or Asians they just worry about blacks and whites. This leads me to a conclusion that whites are just being set up to live with blacks and do their best to make blacks good to a standard acceptable to someone(?), because they can’t send the blacks back to Africa where they belong plus they’ve killed most of the whites and what’s left are dying off, so marry them to the blacks? Maybe they can turn the blacks semi white? Does this sound about right? Will blacks improved white gene and intelligence lead to them being more docile sheep like the whites? Will this be the desired outcome?
    I don’t care how smart they are and I don’t care if whites want black babies. That’s all fine please stop pushing your kids and them on the rest of us, they aren’t my people, it’s difficult to live in peace all surrounded by hostile people who aren’t your own. It’s horrible whites aren’t even allowed to say “blacks aren’t attractive”. It’s like a forced marriage, How do tell them no without being condemned to life as a racist?

  45. wayfarer says:

    I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Twain

    “College Students Are Going To Be Unemployable …”

  46. @Wizard of Oz

    Agreed, though the Flynn effect has been more powerful for a long time, though that seems to be fading or reversing now.

  47. Durruti says:

    Sure, if someone wishes to ‘investigate the IQ -Racial/cultural difference (stuff?), there should be no societal/workplace punishment for doing so.

    Good point by Thompson. End of article! – – – BUT WAIT!!!, the article is not finished! Thompson is not finished yet! He expresses support for the IQ (stuff).

    some African Americans are drawn to non-intellectual rebellion in the first place.

    Huh? Non-intellectual rebellion? Huh? Just what the hell is that? Haiti’s Slave Rebellion – led by Toussaint L’Ouverture was supposedly, non-intellectual, as compared to my favorite American Revolution – fathered by Thomas Jefferson? Unclear! The Attica Prison Rebellion was non-intellectual?

    I smell intellectual Horse Manure by Thompson. [no insult meant to highly useful horse manure – as fertilizer]

    Conclusion: (to my long comment).

    The above quote displays the lack of intellectual honesty, (and intelligence), of those who – claim to support the Racial/Cultural IQ dichotomy thesis. Oh! they also support intellectual freedom! Good for them! I hope they are not lying about their support for intellectual freedom.

    The entire IQ thesis is a load of Zionist financial world control crap (worse than horse manure)..

    By the numbers (to help the intellectually deprived IQ theorists).

    1. Anyone who believes ‘Whites’ (Caucasians?), are more intelligent than any other racial/cultural group, has never met any White People.

    2. There is only 1 Race. Martin L. King (& others) said that. Were they being kind to whites?

    3. Have you ever spoken to White, (male, female, or, other), politicians? Morons. [That is a sentence]

    4. Have you ever spoke to a member of the Congressional Black Caucus, or other African American politician? [OK, that is one argument for your side]

    5. Do you recall what Churchill said about the average (Caucasian) voter in England?

    6. Have you spoken to Hollywood Obomber? [argument for your side], or is it? This Hollywood actor also played Bin Laden. As with Superman & Clark Kent, the 2 were never seen at the same place at the same time.

    7. Have you met Casino Trump, Senator Pocahontas, France’s President Macon (married to his teacher/grandmother). [3 for my point]

    To resolve this IQ Controversy – I Propose the following research:

    Thesis: Asian pussy is the sweetest.

    Let us debate this on this forum. Research must be done – and carefully recorded, and quantified.
    The greatest Foreign Traitor controlled ‘educational’ institutions (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Scranton, and NY City College (attended by Julius & Ethel Rosenburg – they were innocent), should finance serious research into this topic.

    Intellectual Freedom! Y’all!

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Dave Bowman
    , @utu
  48. res says:
    @James Thompson

    Has anyone ever taken a closer look at the correlation outliers in longitudinal IQ studies? How much of the differences are intrinsic IQ variability and how much things like “he was sick that day” or “dementia”?

    I wonder how much of the variation from child to adult could be predicted by using other measures to evaluate where children are in their maturation process. Do you think measuring age in days instead of years would make a significant difference in the apparent variation by age? Age 10 covers a 10% range of age differences.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
    , @EH
  49. eah says:

    • Replies: @eah
  50. joe says:

    There is an aspect of intelligence that is not measured by IQ tests, which might be called “street smarts” – ability to pragmatically manipulate situations to ones benefit. It seems to me that a lack of intelligence in one regard is often offset by increased abilities in others (aptitude and interest? lifetime practice at that which one is good at, thus enjoys and profits by?).

    The problem with “street smarts”, whether as an untestable? element of intelligence, or as a compensatory strategy developed over a lifetime of discovering what works best for the person (especially in a society bent on rewarding bad choices with welfare, double standards, excessive tolerance ) is that this form of smarts makes a person far less fit as a member of a civilized society. In a “law of the jungle” situation they will excel, but not at civilization.

    Leftists and their auxiliary types (blacks, muslims, bureaucrats, lawyers, govt trough feeders, crony monopolists …) often seem to NORMALS to be acting like moral retards or unable to use (reason), but maybe it’s more a matter of using their (innate/ developed ?) “street smarts” to manipulate a decadent society (with excessive tolerance as the final virtue of a decaying society).

    Speaking as someone who spent one and 1/2 of my teenage years in reform school, I think this excessive tolerance is very destructive – not just to society, but also to those who are allowed to (get away with stuff, benefit from) this excess tolerance/ AFFIRMATIVE ACTION – how can they develop into a decent person, able to rightfully take PRIDE in themselves, if the standards of good behavior don’t apply to them? Rather, they will take pride in their ability at behaviors which are destructive to themselves and civilization – and we are reaching a tipping point where “law of the jungle” will come to predominate. Notice the way the left is most enthusiastic about their scummiest leaders – Psychopathic types are naturally drawn to leadership of moral retards who will support them no matter what they do (as long as the moral retards are promised benefits).

    I think more people should be aware of psychopaths, and how a small percentage of them can come to dominate a society – especially if there’s crowds of dumb fanatics, motivated by a huge loot and power pile(big govt) – hare’s psychopaty checklist: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=hare%27s+psycopathy+checklist-revised&atb=v66-2_y&ia=web

    • Replies: @joe
    , @phil
  51. anon[203] • Disclaimer says:
    @Durruti

    you sound like a racist

  52. phil says:

    Which is why sub-Saharan African IQ is important to study–look at blacks who were not enslaved, not subject to Jim Crow, and not subject to stereotyping by whites. Meisenberg puts their average IQ at about 70, Wicherts puts it in the high 70s or low 80s (depending on the type of test used). The meta-analysis by Rindermann put it at 75.

    What about cause and effect between living conditions and IQ? Rindermann (see his book, Cognitive Capitalism) estimates that the cause and effect goes mostly from low IQ to low living standards. Ditto for Christainsen (Intelligence, 2013).

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @Logan
  53. If there is one ray of hope in one day in breaking through the chains of the insidious power that binds us, I think that it may be Ron Unz and his unz.com. But I fear that the one thing that might defeat this hope are the presence of these kinds are articles on unz.com. What good can these articles bring that is worth the danger of extinguishing the greater aforementioned purpose?

    • Replies: @Albert Goodwind
  54. joe says:
    @joe

    An ambitious psychopath who wants a position of power from which to dump misery on people and profit himself has one best choice: (D)emocrat politician. Notice the miserable shitholes which most (D)irtbag / leftist dominated locales soon become – it’s not just socialistic policy destroying the incentives, nor the “worse, the better” thing where they keep people dependent on big govt – it has a lot to do with psychopaths rising to the top of any organization where morals are a tertiary concern.

    Republican politicians are under fierce media scrutiny, bureaucratic sabotage, double standard legal hassles and are forced out of office for trivial or trumped up charges. Business leaders are limited by their boards of directors, news media, govt regs, the free markets, and the fact that most capable people will not long work for an ahole. (D)irtbag/ leftist politicians get COMPLICITY from all concerned – OR ELSE, am_I_right?

    • Replies: @Jmaie
  55. @res

    Yes. Deary and Ritchie have drawn individual trajectories. I call them “hedgehog charts” because they show such different individual patterns.

    • Replies: @res
  56. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    You’re absolutely right about research about differences in IQ. Since it’s totally suppressed why bother?
    The powers that be will never acknowledge it. These articles won’t convince the “ there’ll not all retards”
    conventional wisdom.

    50 years after affirmative action aka hire only useless retarded blacks instead of qualified Whites affirmative action is stronger than ever.

    But the entire non White population of the earth is now included as AA beneficiaries. 1 in 3 Drs is now a non White of foreign birth. There are millions of 115 + IQ White native born Americans capable of being Drs but AA decrees they must be excluded from medical school in favor of foreign Asians.

    The IQ argument is detrimental for Whites because the Chinese Korean Japanese e high IQ leads to the liberal and cutthroat capitalist plan of replacing White with Asians in high IQ occupations.

    All rational arguments against affirmative action are useless. We are living in an anti White dictatorship.

  57. res says:
    @James Thompson

    Thank you. Can you recommend any references? I was unable to find “hedgehog charts” in your blog archive.

    I did a quick search and found https://www.researchgate.net/publication/234018616_Education_Is_Associated_With_Higher_Later_Life_IQ_Scores_but_Not_With_Faster_Cognitive_Processing_Speed
    which looks relevant, but I do not see anything looking at individuals.

    I looked harder and found your post: http://www.unz.com/jthompson/does-age-make-us-sage-or-sag
    which I think is the relevant one. The first paper has supplementary material available at https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616302161

    I just skimmed the paper and it is quite interesting. I don’t see it looking at individual outliers (hard with N ~ 50k), but it does draw out the very relevant factors of health and education. Probably a better way to address my underlying question anyway.

    Would still like to see a scatterplot of IQs at two different ages with a look at the individual outliers though.

    The second paper is even more relevant (and contains the hedgehog graphic): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616302707
    Also has supplementary material.

    Hedgehog graphic from your post:

    Again, just time to skim, but I like the thoroughness with which they looked at possible factors:

    2.2.2.1. Socio-demographic
    2.2.2.2. Physical fitness
    2.2.2.3. Genetic
    2.2.2.4. Lifestyle
    2.2.2.5. Health
    2.2.2.6. Mood

    I did not see any graphic looking all the way back to age 11. I think that would have been interesting to see. For example, was the age 11-67 trajectory at all predictive of the later results?

    P.S. Sorry that this is a bit stream of consciousness. Don’t have time to clean it up right now.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  58. Those who champion the thesis that there are no racial differences in IQ will never be dissuaded by any amount of evidence, because they fall broadly into two groups:
    (1) The true believers. Their convictions in this regard are more along the lines of religious than scientific anyway, so they are therefore totally impervious to any amount of evidence; and
    (2) The cynics. These people know darn well that there are racial differences in IQ, but because they don’t care to have their careers meet a horrible death to the sound of giant blade falling and the gentle click-clack of Madame DeFarge’s knitting needles, they are willing to act just as dumb as need be in order to prevent this from happening.

  59. J1234 says:

    Flynn is an intriguing character. From what little I can gather, he seems to be, at times, a perplexing cross between a (covert) race realist and a social justice warrior. Rather than making him conflicted, however, it seems to be (in his case) the mark of a person who allows his curiosity and intelligence to take him wherever it will.

    I personally believe that there are probably genetic differences between whites (from Europe, Asia Minor, the middle east and a few places in North Africa) and blacks (of sub-Saharan origins) that result in IQ differences, but I don’t dwell on race and IQ the way some other people of my political mindset do. Conflation between the anecdotal and the general becomes a real problem for them, i.e. group differences become formulas that are erroneously applied to individuals.

    Genetic derived IQ, however, probably goes a fairly long way in revealing the socio-economic conditions of identifiable groups on a macro level. But not always. Italians rival Germans for having the the highest aggregate national IQ of Europe, but may not uniformly have the same high standard of living that the Germans do. (In fact, some stats show Italy actually having a higher agg. IQ than Germany.)

    There are probably differences in temperament that don’t reflect on IQ tests that can have an impact on life outcome. Are those differences environmental or genetic? I can’t say.

  60. eah says:

    There should be no academic sanctions against those who believe that were environments equalized, genetic differences between black and white Americans would mean that blacks have an IQ deficit.

    It’s not a matter of ‘belief’, nor of ‘equal’ environments — in fact, available evidence shows that even ‘advantaged’ Blacks perform significantly worse than ‘disadvantaged’ Whites:

    Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white children from families below the poverty line. … Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.

    The difference has never been shown to be ameliorable via the environment — ie reduced to something statistically insignificant, or irrelevant to average life outcomes.

    It’s very obvious that genes are vastly more important than environment.

    At this point, to give even an inch on that, to show any deference whatsoever to these academic witch hunters, eg to write a paper suggesting politely that they fuck off, is base cowardice.

    • Replies: @eah
  61. Marty says:
    @jilles dykstra

    The “black lady” you quote probably doesn’t intend any reciprocation for the IQ compensation she proposes. There’s little doubt that American whites would approve the arrangement by huge margins if the trade-off were vigorous law enforcement against blacks, i.e. to include “profiling” and no consideration of concepts such as “disparate impact.”

  62. Anon[275] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Important video

  63. m___ says:

    The real issue in our Western, and dare we say global societies, is power, who has, who has not. It is a relative between individuals argument, as between groups, races. Sadly it does not correlate well with IQ, less so at the tail of the curve.

    As most individuals, be it commoner, elites, different ethnicities, races, believe a punctual measure of relative riches is far better, and “over time”, means today, could it speak about the absolute denial of better brains, in politics as expected, and as the article hints at, academia.

    The issue might be, not the relative variation of IQ, but the absolute, universal disgust of it, when it exceeds the measure of it’s near environment.

    Regardless of the gene – environment debate and any correlations of these. Western societies float mediocre individuals.

  64. @Jim Christian

    Hispanics, because the Blacks, because you know, they steal the silver. I heard THAT a million times off the record as I installed their phones and screens and sound systems after they moved in.

    You never heard it once, unless perhaps you were watching a Hollywood movie and mistook it for reality. It’s okay; lots of people make that mistake.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @Jim Christian
  65. @Logan

    East Asians were usually the world leaders in inventiveness till about 500 years ago.

    Especially if you ignore things like Greece and Rome.

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @Anon
    , @Logan
  66. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    I al ways thought it was 40,000 including the sailors. I’m probably wrong.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  67. @res

    Yes, you found the right graphs.
    No, you should not look at outliers (unless you have a prior hypothesis). Look at all the trajectories, and then dig around for reasons.
    No, there are no graphs of 11 to 75 year trajectories that I recall, but the correlation (from memory) related to the National Adult Reading test correlation with the Terman Merrill.
    It is towards the end of this post, I think.
    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/steady-as-she-goes

  68. Thank you very much for the link. In my opinion, James Flynn has probably moved irrevocably to the Dark Side, like so many readers on this site. Once a trained researcher takes a fully open-minded and balanced perspective on the evidence, his/her logical conclusion is pre-ordained by the overwhelming evidence in favour of HBD. The genetically-mediated difference in average IQ between American blacks and whites is not Nil or even 5%, it is one of the larger-magnitude choices he lists. Whether on reflection he wants to admit to that HBD view in public is for him to decide. I do not think that internally he will be able to take a balanced and open-minded view on the evidence and not accept HBD.

    • Agree: eah
  69. Pheasant says:
    @jilles dykstra

    How about newgrange which is 600 years older than the oldest egyptian pyramid and predicts the winter solstace to within measurements you need a computer to work out today?

    • Replies: @Pheasant
    , @dearieme
  70. Pheasant says:
    @Pheasant

    China may have the oldest continuing civilisation but it certainly did not build the modern world Whites did.

  71. @Conall Boyle

    Using DNA samples, the UK Biobank sorts by “genetic ancestry” that is, race, with extremely high accuracy.

  72. Pheasant says:
    @Mr McKenna

    The Chinese had civilisations and inventions but they never developed the scientific method. White people going back to the greeks invented it. Thats the reason China never persevered with thier inventions they lacked the method to understand and apply what they had come up with. To this day China steals 100 billion in industrial espionage from America alone.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  73. Pheasant says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Yes how many people actually have family silver (in thier macmansions!) These days? Though I can well believe blacks would steal more than hispanics.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  74. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Even more so if you ignore the 500 to 1800 AD accomplishments of millions of millions of European small business people and their workers who made a little improvement here, a little changer here and viola!!!! railroads, factories electricity and everything else.

    Problem with European history is that the English language version is the enlightehtmen reformation idea that the European world ended 500 AD and nothing happened till about 1550 AD

    Very interesting that 1550 1650 was when N Europe caught up with S Europe due to 2 Southern European countries circumnavigating and conquering much of the rest of the world.

    I wish there were more European history books that concentrated on commerce, technology machine and tool invention.

    Just water mills; by 1100 AD water power was used to power the bellows that creates the heat necessary to make steel. They had saws that operated by water power instead of man power, all hundreds of years before 1550.

    All White European blue collar men constantly improving g their tools and machines.

    “ Maybe add a couple more gears . Will that make the pulley strong enough for a heavier load? Let’s try”
    “ How can I make the axle turn faster?”
    What can I do to make the wagon ride smoother? Maybe a leather sling or a metal coil? If that doesn’t work no lose, think of something else”

    When Henry Ford 1 said “ history is bunk” he meant there is more to European history than royalty wars and church squabbles. It’s what the commercial industrial sectors of ordinary men and women were did

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  75. @Joey James

    What I wonder about, is not whether or not there is an IQ difference between, what we call “races”, BUT WHY are people so obsessively concerned about any differences in Intelligence ?

    Not-with-standing IQ tests may just quite possibly be a creation of BIGOTED motives, isn’t WHAT PEOPLE DO, more important?

    It is also from my research that IQ tests were created by what is called the White (Caucasian)Race, based on their own Cultural and Education standards, not that of the people they consider having “lower” IQs” !

    Coincidence?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @notanon
  76. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    Same old song:

    https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/09/new-report-highlights-racial-disparities-in-school-suspensions/

    Blame ‘racism’.

    But in truth…

    Objective Race-ism > Subjective ‘Racism’.

    According to PC, our social problems concerning blacks are the result of Subjective ‘Racism'(mostly on the part of whites). Supposedly, whites see the ‘social construct’ of ‘race’ everywhere and judge people by the color of their skin. So, PC will say that black students have been once again unfairly targeted by the subjective ‘white racism’ of bigoted teachers. We are to believe that ‘racism’ will go away if we eradicate it from our subjective minds.

    But there is the stubborn reality of Objective Race-ism. By ‘race-ism’, I mean belief in the reality of race and racial differences. After all, -ism means belief, therefore Race-ism should mean belief in race as reality and racial differences.
    Objective Race-ism says whites and blacks are different. Due to the fact of evolution, blacks are more muscular and more aggressive. More impulsive and more likely to be pathologically self-centered. So, blacks are more likely to be unruly at school.

    And this reality is what it is and cannot be wished away by subjectivity. In other words, even if we eradicate all ‘racist’ thoughts and attitudes from our minds, Objective Race-ism will remain as feature of reality because reality is real. It’s like a cancer patient can subjectively tell himself he is healthy, but the objective fact is he is dying of cancer.

    Much of PC is like Psychic Network. It assumes that all problems stem from the mind.
    Or PC functions like prayer. PC Libs love to look down on religious people as dumb for praying to God, but PC is just one longer secular prayer premised on the notion that our problems will vanish if we expunge our souls of ‘bad thoughts’ and pray to MLK and Mandela.
    But just like prayer-healing doesn’t work, prayer-‘progress’ doesn’t work. Not when it goes against reality.

    People who understand Objective Race-ism or Racial Objectivism are like believers in astronomy.

    People who stick to PC theories about Subjective ‘Racism’ are like followers of astrology.

  77. @Anon

    Jean Gimpel. The Medieval Machine

  78. @dearieme

    Have you read Gregory Clarke’s “A Farewell to Alms: A Brief Economic History of the World”? A very clever and convincing piece of work which is based on conscientious attention to well researched detail. An original idea, as far as I know, is the importance of downward mobility from prosperous literate families who outbred the lower classes in Britain. My own addition (not in his umpteenth edition I have to say) is that the time likely to be taken by a Chinese carpenter’s bright 8 year old son to become literate in Chinese was an economic deterrent to his being provided with that advantage compared to the equivalent in England where the family by 1600 (even before the KJV) may well have had their own English bible and taught the kids to read it in a few months.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @phil
    , @phil
  79. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pheasant

    The Chinese had civilisations and inventions but they never developed the scientific method. White people going back to the greeks invented it.

    But Greeks didn’t do much with it. And Romans didn’t do much with it either. Romans were into technology, not so much into science and theory.

    So, what really made the difference? It was relatively only recently that the West began to make real progress in science/technology. But even this really took hold with the Enlightenment.

    Some may blame Christianity. Once Hellenic Civilization turned Christian, they destroyed so much of the knowledge from pagan times. They didn’t just topple pagan idols but burned countless Pagan texts in science and math. But even before the rise of Christianity as a real political power, the advance of science had stalled in pagan Greece and Rome.

    Another question is why the Renaissance happened in Western Europe but not in the Byzantium. Shouldn’t it have happened in the latter since far more of the classical legacy survived in the East than in the West(that became thoroughly overrun by ransacking barbarians from the North)? Was the reason racial? The West was racially more homogeneous than the East?

    Or, was it easier to bring about a neo-pagan revival in the West since the destruction of Classical culture and learning could conveniently be blamed on the barbarians, the Goths and Vandals. Thus, Westerners could argue that since Christo-Classical culture was destroyed by backward barbarians, it needs to be rediscovered and rebirthed as the true culture of the West.

    In contrast, the destruction of much of classical learning and knowledge in the East was from within. The blame couldn’t be laid at the feet of foreigners, outsiders, or barbarians. The fact is Byzantines themselves waged war on classical culture once they turned Christian. So, revival of Classical Culture would have implied that Christians had committed a great crime to the glory of Ancient Greece/Rome. And Christians weren’t likely to take on such burden. People will do ANYTHING to avoid blame and accountability, even if it holds society back and costs society dearly.

    Returning to the issue of China and its failure to make the necessary breakthroughs for great scientific revolutions, I think it had a lot to do with the Asiatic personality. IQ is important but so is personality. If two people have the same IQ but one has a master-leader personality while the other has a dog-servant personality, which one is likely to bring about new ideas and forge ahead? A master-leader personality isn’t afraid to think different like Columbus and set off on new ventures. A dog-servant personality is emotionally most committed to getting along, seeking approval, and fearing rejection.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anon
  80. Anonymous[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Freespirit

    Your research? If you really claim to have studied the subject perhaps you would care to explain why the Flynn Effect has shown up more positively in culture fair tests like Raven’s Matrices than in the use of the traditional verbal, math etc tests?

    Maybe you will save yourself now from turning up again as an ignorant blowhard.

  81. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Pheasant

    Maybe monotheism helped some with the West over the East. It made people less superstitious since there was only one God. So, God was in heaven and earth was matter to be studied objectively.

    In contrast, Chinese believed in the Tao that touched every facet of life. So, even to build a house, one had to be anxious about upsetting myriad spirits. Or building a railroad might be seen as an affront to ‘feng shui’. And that made Chinese more paranoid about dealing with reality and tweaking it. It might upset the Tao in all things, even matter.

    • Replies: @Anon
  82. Anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    Probably not! But I got irritated with him….

  83. Agent76 says:

    Sep 21, 2018 How Ivy League schools can destroy American values

    Around three years ago, I stumbled upon a TEDx talk by Sharyl Atkisson, formerly of CBS News. She talked about a term unfamiliar to me then – “astroturfing” and the manipulation of the media. At the time, it was difficult to believe the extent of the psychological manipulation that surrounds us. It was also difficult to appreciate the courage this woman had to talk about it.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Art
  84. @Mr McKenna

    Heard it many times throughout the eighties and nineties, moron. Back then, the wealthy of Washington actually had Blacks as housekeepers and quasi-nannies. Then the Hispanics started flowing in. From construction sites to housekeepers, Hispanics replaced Blacks. The wealthy had lots of expensive baubles about. In addition to expensive liquor, they had silver, they had expensive china, Waterford, Hummels and glass and crystal all over, and the Black housekeepers stole a little of it at a time. And it is WHY they were replaced. All over town, throughout the eighties and nineties, when I would ask why Hispanic Consuela replaced the old Mammy, their reply was EXACTLY, “Because the Blacks, you know, they steal”.

    Can’t begin to make that stuff up. Know who said it the most? The wealthy Jews. The ones who AREN’T racist, but are of good sense.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  85. @Pheasant

    The children of the old folks I used to service back then, their TVs, phones, computers had tons of expensive baubles all over the joint. When they would die off, the kids would call Sotheby’s in to auction off all the baubles, the crystal, the silver, the china. Kids today don’t bother with that stuff. The old wealthy of Foxhall Road in Georgetown, of Bethesda, of Chevy Chase, the Grahams, the Cafritz family, the Kennedys, they all had lots of expensive things. And they all ran to Hispanic housekeepers at the start of the Hispanic invasion. Most common reason given? “The Blacks, they steal”.

    Ask Jeff Bezos how many Blacks he employs at hos house. Promise you it’s zero. NO ONE employs Black housekeepers anymore. It simply isn’t down. Now I’m in Boston. Few of the wealthiest even have Hispanics.

    • Replies: @Anon
  86. phil says:
    @joe

    Beware the “compensating skills fallacy.” The fact that, generally speaking, blacks are inferior to East Asians in intelligence, as measured by Western IQ tests, does not mean that blacks MUST be superior to East Asians at something else. Whether blacks are superior at something else has to be examined via empirical investigation.

    Well before the 2008 Olympics, held in Beijing, the Chinese government scoured the country (1.3 billion people) and offered the equivalent of $50,000 for each gold medal that a Chinese won. Children who showed an aptitude for various Olympic events were encouraged to develop their talents, sprinting included. Encouragement crossed the line into coercion in some cases. Nevertheless, the Chinese could not find a single individual guy who could qualify for the Olympic finals in the 100 meter dash. On the other hand, every single finalist in the men’s 100 meters was of sub-Saharan African descent.

    This offers evidence, if not absolute proof, that sub-Saharan Africans are superior to ethnic Chinese in sprinting.

    Stefan Molyneux says, no race is superior, no race is inferior, but what if people generally agree that intelligence is more important in life than sprinting?

  87. dearieme says:
    @Anon

    WKPD says “William brought over 11,212 horse and foot. … Including the supply train, his force consisted of about 15,000 men, … The Dutch army was composed mostly of foreign mercenaries; there were Dutch, Scots, English, German, Swiss, and Swedish regiments, even Laplanders as well as 200 Blacks.

    But I dare say his sailors were predominantly Dutchmen so I don’t think we need fall out over our guesses at the number of true Dutchmen who showed up. Enough, no doubt, that if they had been unusually tall someone would have recorded that impression.

    The whole business was settled by King James, who had previously been a brave soldier, having what sounds like a nervous breakdown. One for the psychologists, then.

    • Replies: @Anon
  88. dearieme says:
    @Pheasant

    The people who built it had originated in Anatolia: whether modern Americans would rate them as “white” or “European” is anyone’s guess. Bronze Age people who originated in Ukraine and Russia eventually replaced them almost completely.

  89. dearieme says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Thank you for that.

    But why the offshore island rather than France or the German states? And why did the offshore islanders in the American colonies contribute nothing to that great leap forward?

    Still it was what it was. I might as well ask why tiny Portugal set about the most successful centrally organised plan of oceanic exploration in human history, but it did. (And what a thrilling yarn it made in history lessons at school. The contrast with Columbus’s bumbling into immortality was a hoot.)

    I’m counting the triumphs of the Polynesians as pre-history, and not centrally organised.

    And I’m assuming that Herodotus’s story of Phoenicians circumnavigating Africa is wrong. But who knows?

  90. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Agent76

    People like to feel superior. Since ethnic/racial sense of superiority is OUT, especially among whites, white folks(esp elites) need something else to feel superior about. For some, it’s More Money. For others, it’s moral superiority or self-righteous supremacism. It makes them feel oh-so-very-good and better than others. They become addicted to that virtue vanity high, the moral orgasm or morgasm.

    But what is one to feel self-righteous about? After all, one can feel self-righteous about lots of things. THIS QUESTION is the key to power. In a world where people need to feel self-righteous and holier-than-thou about something, the matter of WHO gets to decide WHAT to feel self-righteous about decides the future. Control that and control much of the world because the self-righteous commissars and mobs will be impassioned about the themes handed to them. Most people, lacing agency and true individuality, are unable to form their own terms and themes of self-righteousness. They need to receive the terms/themes from above.

    So, if you control the big pharma of self-righteousness, you get to design the Smug Drug. And then you have an emotional army of like-minded people who will bark like dogs in service to your favored ideology and idolatry.

    Jewish elites control the big pharma of self-righteousness and design the Smug Drugs to favor certain identities and agendas that best serve the matter of “Is it good for Jewish supremacism?”

    [MORE]

    The top three holy identities are Jewish, black, and homo. Jews allow themselves to feel self-righteous as the Shoah People. And non-Jews may feel self-righteous by revering, serving, and ‘defending’ Jews. Then, it’s not surprising why so many Goyim self-righteously worship Jews who self-righteously worship themselves.
    The Smug Drug also favors blacks. By making blacks into a holy people and invoking slavery at every turn, Jews can bait ‘white guilt’ and paralyze white pride. Also, by making white boys and white girls admire black prowess in sports, sex, and song, the white race becomes cucked and tamed. Thus, whites come to feel it’s ‘racist’ to serve their own interests and instead serve Jews(and blacks as allies of Jews). And Smug Drug also favors homos because they are such close allies of Jews, useful in subverting Christianity with Queertianity, and a minority-elite that sees eye to eye with Jews on power and privilege.

    The desire for self-righteousness is timeless and universal. However, different peoples feel self-righteous about different things. It all depends on WHO gets to design the ‘moral chemistry’ of the Smug Drug. In the past, Christian Church was the main dispenser of the self-righteous drug in the West. And its theme was Christians are morally and spiritually superior as worshipers of the Messiah; and of course, Christians are especially superior to Jews, the killers of Christ. (No wonder Jews hate Christianity and Google ignores Easter.)
    And in the American South, white folks once felt self-righteous and morally superior to blacks. This sounds counter-intuitive since blacks were the slaves, the people suffering injustice. But whites controlled the Narrative and said white civilization was elevating savage blacks via the institution of slavery, which, though not exactly just, was teaching blacks the ways of social order and discipline so crucial to civilization. So, slavery was defended as a system that dragged blacks from ugabuga jungle savagery toward semblance of civilized life. So, whites felt morally superior while blacks were made to feel they had to prove their worth and be a credit to their race. Back then, white Southerners controlled the Smug Drug. So, even seemingly unjust things can be made to seem just. Just ask the Palestinians. Harsh Zionist policies against Palestinians are always justified on grounds that ‘terroristic’ Palestinians want to wipe Israel off the map. Palestinians are made the genocidal aggressors while Israeli Jews are made the humble defenders of homeland. This Narrative overlooks the fact that Israel was created by wiping Palestine off the map. It also ignores the continuing Zionist Occupation of West Bank. But that is the moral chemistry of the Smug Drug in the West(especially in the US) in regards to Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the majority of Americans still feel morally justified in defending Israel and defaming Palestinians. Just like dogs can be made to feverishly serve any command of the master — make friends with that cat or maul that cat, be nice to that man over there or bite him in the ankle — , most people can be made to feel self-righteous about anything. Lacking agency and individuality, they take the Smug Drug handed to them from above. Consider the politics of self-righteousness in relation to Red Scare and the current Russia Hysteria. In the so-called ‘McCarthy Era’, there were real Soviet spies and agents in all walks of life. In contrast, Russian influence in current America is totally delusional. If anything, US politics and media are controlled by globo-homo Jewish imperialists. But most Libby-Dibs still feel smugly self-righteous in defense of noble communists and martyred fellow-travelers of the ‘Anti-Communist Hysteria’ era while foaming at the mouth about how Russia, Russia, Russia and Putin-Putin-Putin are pulling all the strings behind Trump and the GOP. Most libby-dibs are still total addicts of the PC Smug Drug. This applies to most Cuckservatives too, but the drug is beginning to wear off among the nationalists and patriots. And this is why Jewish Big Pharma is freaking out and trying to force more PC drugs down our throats.

    As for the Muslim World, the Smug Drug is about faith in Allah. Therefore, Muslims feel themselves to be righteous and superior to infidels don’t know the true way. What Muslims feel self-righteous about is beyond the control of the Jewish globo-homo imperialists. In this sense, Islam still remains an independent religion, something that can’t be said for Christianity that lost all pride and turned into a cult worship of Jews and even homos(and trannies).
    But Jewish Power is trying to change Muslim minds in the West by associating Islam with homomania, feminism, and anti-white vitriol. Muslims in the West, being so eager to come to the richer and freer West, do form alliances with Jewish Power. It’s a love/hate relationship. Jews use figures like Justin Trudeau to serve as a bridge between Muslims and Homomania(and anti-white politics). Jews want Muslims to feel most self-righteous about being part of Diversity, waving the homo flag, and hating ‘evil racist’ whitey. Especially because the Western ‘Right’ is even more pro-Israel than the Western ‘Left’ is, there’s little reason for Muslims to side with White Conservatism against PC Proggery. Muslims may hate Zionists and globo-homo stuff but nevertheless see them as the lesser evil to White Conservatism strikes them as more slavish to Zionism and hostile toward Muslim Immigration-invasion into the West.

    As long as Jewish globo-homo supremacists control the Smug Drug in the West, whites will keep losing. They need to design their own Drug, and it has to be stronger than the Red Pill, which acts as a blocker of PC and booster of the white right but not so much of white righteousness. It is when people feel righteous that they go from feeling defensive to confidently assertive.

  91. “Arthur Jensen . . . stated that the brightest person in America might well be a black”

    I find this incredible. At math, Jensen was likely somewhere between me (Jensen better) and La Griffe du Lion (Jensen worse), but a glance at the black, white and yellow IQ bell curves suggests to me that the odds of this are vanishingly small. No one thinks the term ‘might well be’ encompasses that. And Flynn looks equally eager to please as Jensen for repeating this.

    Maybe it’s a Clintonesque conundrum: ‘Well, it depends how well the definition of “well” is defined.’

  92. @Durruti

    Too much horse manure here to even wade through with responses which won’t be understood.

    Suffice to say that this is right up there in my list of the ten stupidest internet comments of all time.

  93. Art says:

    There is a human trait that is not included in the testing of human capabilities.

    That trait is the ability to speak words. There is nothing more human then talking. Speaking words is the most important capability that humans have. No other biological beings, are even in the same ballpark.

    Today we measure the capability to understand different words. But not the capability to deliver them.

    Black people are very good at delivering words. Our language is full of useful black sayings. Rap, though sometimes full of hate, is ingenious. Blacks score at the top of Scrabble contests. Blacks are very good talkers. That is an intellectual talent.

    Black people are being short changed in the intellectual capacity department.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Agree: utu
  94. notanon says:

    they are lying for a good cause

    i’m sure a lot of them believe that but they’re deluding themselves.

    if they want to improve the life chances of future generations from the low average IQ populations all they have to do is tell the truth and women would adjust their preferred balance of brains vs brawn.

    women who liked 30% brains to 70% brawn would switch to 40:60.

    women who liked 40% brains to 60% brawn would switch to 50:50.

    etc

    • Replies: @Truth
  95. notanon says:
    @Freespirit

    WHY are people so obsessively concerned about any differences in Intelligence ?

    the institutional abuse of white children in the education system over their “white privilege” is founded on denial of racial differences in IQ.

  96. Dr. Thompson,

    How does an environmentalist like Flynn respond these days to evidence, such as that offered by Jayman, that environment has a nil effect on intelligence (except in extreme cases).

    • Replies: @utu
    , @notanon
  97. utu says:
    @Anon

    In the equation looking at difference between the West and Byzantium consider two variables: (1) expansiveness against Islam in the West (successful Reconquista) and (2) purge of Jews from the West that allowed the development of native merchant and craftsmen class (many of the purged Jews ended up in the East).

  98. Art says:
    @Agent76

    Around three years ago, I stumbled upon a TEDx talk by Sharyl Atkisson, formerly of CBS News. She talked about a term unfamiliar to me then – “astroturfing” and the manipulation of the media. At the time, it was difficult to believe the extent of the psychological manipulation that surrounds us. It was also difficult to appreciate the courage this woman had to talk about it.

    Hear Hear! – More Sharyl Atkisson.

    Think Peace

    • Replies: @Truth
  99. utu says:
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    Jayman is nobody. Just ignore him.

  100. @Albert Goodwind

    Sorry for the typo. I meant to say:

    If there is one ray of hope in one day breaking through the chains of the insidious power that binds us, I think that it may be Ron Unz and his unz.com. But I fear that the one thing that might defeat this hope are the presence of these kinds are articles on unz.com. What good can these articles bring that is worth the danger of extinguishing the greater aforementioned purpose?

  101. utu says:
    @TimothyPMadden

    That 80 / 80 for example, is better than 90 / 70 either way.

    You can define intelligent quotient anyway you want. Currently it is an arithmetic average (V+M)/2 or perhaps weighted average. But using geometric average sqrt(V*M) would have more qualities you like. The point however is why there is this reductionist obsession with measuring intelligence with one number? Why not treat it as vector (V,M) that may have even more dimensions than two?

    • Replies: @TimothyPMadden
  102. utu says:
    @Durruti

    I know you are kind of crazy but I kind of like this comment. Finding researchers willing to study the sweetness of pussies among races should not be difficult. But who would fund it?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  103. @Jim Christian

    Hispanics, because the Blacks, because you know, they steal the silver.

    Unfortunately, Ted Cruz was too young to run for president in 1996. Hence, the first black president got away with the silver.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  104. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    What did the Dutch invent? Belgium didn’t exist till 1830. It was part of the great medieval renaissance Duchy of Burgundy

    • Replies: @dearieme
  105. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    More like he didn’t want what happened to his father happen to him, his wife and baby son.

  106. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian

    As I remember from childhood the black maid would work for about 6 months, quit and a few weeks later there’d be a major burglary. Presumably by her friends and relatives

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  107. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:

    Off topic. 12 people were shot at the Strausberg France Christmas Market by some vibrant enricher

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
  108. @utu

    “Finding researchers willing to study the sweetness of pussies among races should not be difficult. But who would fund it?”

    Pornhub?

  109. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    I’ve been to Prince Henry’s naval
    and navigation school museum. Unbelievable. His naval architects invented sails that pivoted. There was like a gear with wooden spikes around the masts. The sailors could just grab the spokes and turn the sails around. There are lots of amazing other things the Portuguese did too.

    Nowadays the public schools teach the kids that de gama. Magellan and the rest were just evil Whites who destroyed the world

  110. @Reg Cæsar

    Hillary got the wicker..

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  111. @Anon

    As I remember from childhood the black maid would work for about 6 months, quit and a few weeks later there’d be a major burglary. Presumably by her friends and relatives

    Up here there was scandal, little talked-about, that the Hispanics who were landscapers would notify their buddies about choice properties on the North Shore where resides lots of old moldy money in the care of the old WASPS. From there, stolen cars, home invasions, burglaries.

    Now the old Bostonian rich are being razzed for using White chicks to mind the kids and house. But when it’s a slam dunk the Blacks will steal and the Hispanics come back in the middle of the night, who can blame the White Bostonian for wanting not to be stuck up in their own homes?

    Blacks and Hispanics in the United States are a huge liability. THEY are the problem. They’re thieves who do murder, and for a very few dollars. Go ahead, defend it.

    • Replies: @utu
  112. @Anon

    Guns are illegal there. Even the Bobbies are unarmed.

    • Replies: @Anon
  113. phil says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    That’s why Chinese do so badly today. Learning Chinese characters takes too long. Better to learn Swahili.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  114. @Art

    This is the biggest load of shit I have read today. I don’t what kind of deep seeded white guilt you posses that would prompt a ridiculous statement such as this. Blacks can barely speak English, to the point where a weak attempt to justify their clear inability to enunciate simple consonant combinations such as “th” (the word “north” is pronounced “norf”, for example) was promoted through the creation of the pseudo language Ebonics. Some examples:

    Ask is pronounced “acks”

    fitting is pronounced “fid’n”

    Chassis is pronounced “chastity”

    They is dey

    I didn’t do nothing is… well, you should know that one.

    Some great “rap sayings”:

    bitch better have my money

    slapping the ho’s

    Worlllllllstaaaaaaarrr!

    pimpin –

    “sling the rock around”

    pop a cap in yo ass

    “Black people are being short changed in the intellectual capacity department.”

    Provide one specific example of this.

    You should try living and working with blacks Art (and in effect, having to depend on blacks), instead of just watching them on TV.

  115. phil says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Chinese kids also spend too much time playing violin or piano. In each youth symphony only one kid can be the concertmaster (and get brownie points on his college application) and only a few kids can be declared winners of the concerto competition, but most of them put in a lot of time. Very few kids study viola even though they can then qualify for the top orchestra and perhaps be named the principal violist. My daughter studied viola and became principal; if she had studied violin she would have been indistinguishable from a whole crowd of Chinese kids in terms of ability.

  116. @Jim Christian

    Hillary got the wicker..

    She should have taken the fireplace poker. We’d all have forgiven her, had she used it.

  117. @Art

    Black people are very good at delivering words.

    Yes, and we’re taught to be very wary of that type.

    Black people are being short changed in the intellectual capacity department.

    Just about everyone here agrees. Blame Mother Nature for that.

    • Replies: @Art
  118. Art says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Art: Black people are being short changed in the intellectual capacity department.

    Just about everyone here agrees. Blame Mother Nature for that.

    Please – Let me qualify my words.

    By those academics who judge and quantify human intelligence as subject matter – Black folks are being short changed because the ability to talk spontaneity is not counted in their evaluation. Clearly that is a part of our human intellectual capacity.

    Think Peace — Art

    • Replies: @Art
  119. to talk spontaneity

    My black shipmates could certainly do that. But they called it by a shorter S-word.

  120. @Jim Christian

    Hummel figurines and thieving black housekeepers. Oh man, you slay me!

    Here’s a hint: blacks quit domestic work because 1) the pay was reduced as cheap latino labor moved in and 2) government ‘work’ replaced it as a de facto ‘workfare’ scheme.

    Now cut the name calling and try acting like an adult around here. Also recommended: stay away from your television set, though I admit this advice is probably many years too late in your case.

    • Replies: @Truth
  121. PN says: • Website

    I enjoyed this article. However, Flynn’s gesture is simply hopeless. Here’s why:

    “A word to those who seek respectability by banning race/gene research: how much respectability would you get if your position were stated without equivocation? What if you were to openly say genetic equality between the races may or may not be true; and that is exactly why I forbid it to be investigated. Or: “I do not know if genetic equality is true and do not want anyone else to know.”

    Those he addresses can answer these questions quite publicly and without shame:
    1) Plenty.
    2) So what? It should be forbidden.
    3) That is exactly what I believe and what all good people should believe.

    Our cultural institutions are not built on truth; they do not aim at truth. Genetic racial equality is, quite simply, essential to the mythos of our regime. It cannot be challenged. If a scientist wants, like Socrates, to ask “Well, how do we KNOW that racial equality is true,” he will meet a similar fate. Except there will be no trial and the hemlock will be administered to his career.

    • Replies: @notanon
  122. utu says:
    @Jim Christian

    Go ahead, defend it.

    Toxic culture.

  123. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian

    Strasbourg is in France police are heavily armed. The big towns like Strasbourg have SWAT type squads.

    The Christmas markets are heavily guarded since the Muslim invasions. He used an automatic rifle 4 dead so far

    Soldiers guarding the festival exchanged gunfire with him. Other soldiers tried to get people to safety but those markets are like a county fair not much cover.

    He hijacked a taxi to escape hope he doesn’t kill the driver Good old French name of Cheriff Chekatt 29 born in Strasbourg. He’s in the local cop watch list. He, his immigrant parents and any siblings probably never worked a day in their lives.

    One good thing; The European Parliament is meeting in their Strasbourg building. Hopefully at least one of the victims is an MP and can experience what the average European gets from the barbarian invasion.

    Sister told me that when they lived in Frankfurt in the 197os there weren’t even city cops at the Christmas markets and other fiestas. Now France has the military guarding the events and people still get shot by Muslim invaders.

    We went to a county fair last summer. There were portable fences and security to search bags.

    • Replies: @Anon
  124. @dearieme

    ” I might as well ask why tiny Portugal set about the most successful centrally organised plan of oceanic exploration in human history, but it did. ”
    Read
    Felipe Fernández-Armesto, ‘Civilisations’, London, 2000
    About Polynesian navigation skills
    Guy Murchie, ‘Het lied van de lucht’, (Song of the sky, an exploration of the ocean of air, Boston), Bilthoven 1956

  125. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Most superstitious people on earth. Even Chinese immigrant Drs cut down treeWs in front of the house because devils live in trees or something

    It’s illegal to cut down street trees. So these high IQ Drs researchers and computer programmers sneak out after midnight and pour gallon jugs of pesticide in the city street trees. So the tree dies and city workers cut it down.

    Major victory the devils fly away and live in someone else’s tree. And there’s open space in front of the house for the fool luck spirits to fly into the house.

    Or White dogs. See a white dog and you’ll have bad luck for years even if it lived half a mile away and you seldom see it

  126. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    Byzantium ended in 1452 before the renaissance began. That was the year the Turks finally conquered Constantinople. Before that Byzantium was busy fighting off the Turks.

    Greece Rome and Asia were slave societies. slaves did all the manual work. After Rome fell slavery was abolished in Europe.

    Small business men and crafts men and their workers worked together improving, changing innovating. If it didn’t work try something else.

    That’s very different from a Greek Roman or Asian slave master whose slaves don’t even talk to him or would never make a suggestion.

    It wasn’t Bell Labs or General Dynamics that created the modern world. It was free European men and boys who worked with the boss making little improvements that led to the modern world.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @Anon
  127. eah says:
    @eah

    The ‘environment’ here is the United States of America.

    • Replies: @eah
  128. @utu

    Did you just say:

    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

  129. dearieme says:
    @Anon

    In describing places you have to use anachronistic terms if people (especially Americans?) are to understand where you are talking about.

    Unfathomably you failed to complain that Anatolia wasn’t called Anatolia when the Neolithic farmers sailed off around the Med. Come to that, the Med wasn’t called the Mediterranean either.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
  130. dearieme says:
    @Anon

    “After Rome fell slavery was abolished in Europe.” Where do you get that daft idea from?

    The Doomsday Book records about 10% of the population of England as slaves. You can be pretty confident that the proportion was higher in, for example, Ireland.

    • Replies: @Anon
  131. Anon[114] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Anon

    Byzantium ended in 1452 before the renaissance began.

    But why was there so little innovation in Byzantium even though it was spared sacking by barbarians?
    It was surrounded by classical heritage for centuries after Rome was sacked and ruined.

    In the West, the Church authority was more likely to tolerate revival of paganism because Rome was destroyed by barbarians.

    In the East, it was the Church that had done most to destroy or suppress much of classical pagan culture. For the church to allow neo-pagan revival would have been to admit its great folly.

    Greece Rome and Asia were slave societies. slaves did all the manual work. After Rome fell slavery was abolished in Europe.

    Ancient Athens was a slave society and incredibly innovative.

    And US had slavery.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Anon
    , @Anon
    , @notanon
  132. “Perhaps I am being too gloomy about this, and the mob is at its most ferocious when they sense the tide of discovery is flowing against them.”

    Some of the more perceptive and astute (or perhaps just fashion-conscious?) members of the mob very much detect the shifting winds and have begun performing their Clintonesque triangulations.

    The fact that the True Believers are doubling down and consuming the children of the revolution in their fanatical rage adds fuel to the feedback loop.

    When the “universal acid” of science is done digesting another pretty (but false and self-serving) worldview, the world itself will be changed. And yet the burned witches will not be resurrected, the animal spirits will still roam, and we will erect new false gods.

  133. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I know perfectly well that the USA had slavery. During slavery the only southern invention of note was the cotton gin. That was invented by neither a slave nor a slave owner nor manager of slaves. Whitney was a New England teacher who thought there was a better way of processing cotton than slaves picking out the seeds with their fingers.

    The slaves just did what they were told, picked out the seeds. The owners and bosses didn’t bother to think of ways to make the work more efficient.

    Truth is the European inventions and modern society are the products of free White European blue collar workers who created the modern world between 500 to 1800AD.

    Ignore everything that happened in Europe between 500 and 1750 AD when the industrial revolution miraculously invented itself is the enlightenment and Marxist view.

    That’s actually Karl Marx’ s view. His was the enlightenment view that there was no business, trade or industry or manufacturing in Europe during early, middle and late medieval times.

    Europe was a feudal society of aristocrat land owners and serfs according to Marx. There were no machines or tools no cities no business men, no traders no manufacturing until the industrial revolution invented itself.

    Or maybe you just like to start arguments for the sake of arguing.

  134. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I know very little about Byzantium other than it was occupied by Turkey about 100 years before the renaissance

    It’s obvious you don’t like it because of its religion

    I do know that Saint Sophia Church built by Justinian in the 500s used many never seen before engineering inventions to achieve the dome and the vast space that needed no support other than the walls. Those engineers also invented clerestory windows to light the building.

    Have a nice day. I don’t feel like participating in an endless argument about Ancient Greece vs Christian Byzantium.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  135. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I gather you’re a great fan of Ancient Greece and it’s ancient pagan religion scientists and philosophers.

    That’s nice.

    • Replies: @Truth
  136. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    It was abolished. Just took a long time to abolish it.

    Go ahead and denigrate the accomplishments of free White European business men and their free White European workers who used their brains and hands to create the modern world

    Have a nice day and argue with someone else.

  137. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    You meant Flanders and Burgundy. Argue argue argue about every word. Don’t you have a spouse to nag?

  138. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    The soldiers wounded Chekatt probably not too badly as he managed to escape. He’s probably hiding out in the Muslim welfare projects of Strasbourg cared for by an affirmative action Muslim Dr.

    He is a common criminal as well as in the danger to the state watch list.

  139. @phil

    Apparently unaware of the continents history.

  140. notanon says:
    @Stephen R. Diamond

    relative iodine deficiency might explain some of it i.e. increasing IQ in some parts of the world due to iodized salt and/or increased fish consumption in the 3rd world since WW2 – at the same time not effecting places like Japan cos they were already at their peak due to high pre-existing seafood consumption?

  141. notanon says:
    @Anon

    And US had slavery.

    the parts of the US that had slavery lost partly because they’d fallen behind technologically.

    Ancient Athens was a slave society and incredibly innovative.

    true (and i don’t know the answer to this next question) but which cane first – were they innovative first and that led to success against competitors which led to lots of war captive slaves or were they a slave society from the beginning?

    my guess is slavery as a result of success is one of the things that ends up killing off successful societies.

  142. notanon says:
    @PN

    Genetic racial equality is, quite simply, essential to the mythos of our regime.

    if the orthodoxy is maintained by an alliance between some who want stupid people to stay stupid for selfish reasons and a majority who believe denying population differences is the moral position then if it can be shown it’s not moral (on balance) the latter group can change their mind.

  143. Truth says:
    @Mr McKenna

    LOL.

    Jimboni, something tells me he knows you.

  144. Truth says:
    @notanon

    Or you could just start lifting weights, Bro.

    • Replies: @notanon
  145. Truth says:
    @Anon

    Were you guys aware that homosexuality, and in particulary pederast homosexuality was an actual condition of citizenship in Ancient Greece?

    Well, now you are.

  146. Truth says:
    @Art

    The news is just as real as that “person’s” XX chromosome pattern.

  147. There was something written on the Dutch site TPO about identity politics; as I know the word, but have no idea what it means, I followed the link to an article pretending to define identity politics, read the article, and by now still do not understand what identity politics is.
    See the link below
    But I found at the end of the article

    A professsor Weinstein fired from Evergreen College in Washington, because students see him as a racist.
    I must say, if these students are characteristic for USA college students, then my idea is that all hope for the USA is lost.
    Except by Weinstein I did not hear anything that made any sense, to me.
    The college president, or whatever his title is, ssems to see his job as to please students.
    My advice to whites with some brains: try to concentrate in a few states, where whites thus are in the majority, close the borders for immigration, except for those passing IQ tests, and who show that they’re interested in meritocracy.

    https://theoldcontinent.eu/essay-whats-this-thing-called-identity-politics/

  148. Art says:
    @Art

    Hopefully a third time works.

    By those academics who judge and quantify human intelligence as subject matter – Black folks are being short changed because their “ability of spontaneous talk” is not counted in their intellectual evaluation. Black folks are good talkers. Clearly that is a part of our human intellectual capacity.

    Think Peace — Art

  149. notanon says:
    @Truth

    i’ve always been the ideal mix of brains and brawn

    just lucky that way

    it’s dudes like yourself who currently have to compete for women with gangstas who would benefit the most from the media telling the truth about genetics.

    they might still shack up with gangstas but they’d be sneaking out to get pregnant from dudes with glasses.

    • Replies: @Truth
  150. EH says:
    @siamdave

    “very, very obviously”

    So no research needed, right? But the vast research that has been done utterly refutes your assertions. Blacks adopted by Whites resemble their biological parents’ IQ, not their adoptive parents. Blacks from families with incomes of $200k+ have SAT scores the same as Whites from families earning less than $20k. No environmental intervention to raise IQ has ever been shown to have effects lasting into adulthood.

  151. EH says:
    @Lin

    Your source gives an answer for the increase in Dutch height: sexual selection. Taller Dutch men had more children. Environment can’t be the cause of differences in populations unless it differs between populations, and the magnitude of the difference in environment must be sufficiently large to cause the difference in outcomes.

  152. EH says:
    @res

    Typically age is measured in months or tenths of a year when looking up the conversion between raw and scaled scores in IQ tests. Moving to days or adding an additional decimal digit to ages wouldn’t have much effect compared to variations in testing conditions and other sources of error, I think.

  153. Truth says:
    @notanon

    it’s dudes like yourself who currently have to compete for women with gangstas who would benefit the most from the media telling the truth about genetics.

    I AM a Gangsta, Cuz. And today I got time!!!

  154. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    Anyone who pretends to know anything about European history would refer to the Duchy of Burgundy and or it’s cities and provinces such as , Flanders Brabant and many others.

    Belgium is is mostly the same physical territory of the old Duchy of Brabant that was created after the Duchy of Burgundy ended.

    Brabant, now Belgium never achieved what Flanders and some other provinces and Duchies did anyway.

    You’re like a hawk sitting on a rooftop waiting to pounce. Go pounce on someone else

  155. eah says:
    @eah

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @eah
  156. @dearieme

    The contribution of the American colonists was evident at least in the 18th century thanks to Benjamin Franklin and I think there were a number of inventions to do with cotton.

    On the other hand I get from Nancy Isenberg’s highly readable “White Trash: the 400 Year Untold Story of Class in America” that England had been exporting its surplus population which was not from the skilled or literate classes who made the Industrial Revolution.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  157. @Anon

    You would know more about the Renaissance at least if you didn’t think of it as occurring 100 years after the fall of Constantinople (Byzantium) to the Turks in 1452.

    Think of Poggio Bracciolini’s hunt for Lucretius’s De Rerum Natura and his finding it about 1420 in a monastery in Fulda. Read about it in Stephen Greenblatt’s “The Swerve”.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  158. @phil

    As I think you are joking I shall not for a moment allow it to inhibit my giving advice to all young members of my family that they should learn Chinese, along the lines of “anyone who can’t speak Chinese in 20 years time will be like someone who can’t speak English now”.

  159. @Wizard of Oz

    A fairy tale, this renaisssance
    Bertrand Gille, ‘Ingenieure der Renaissance’, Wien, 1968 (Les ingenieurs de la Renaissance, Paris, 1964)
    J.Huizinga, ‘The waning of the Middle Ages, 1924, 1990, Londen (Herfsttij der Middeleeuwen)
    There was no sudden change, just gradual change.

    Above all, the question: renaissance of what ?
    Ch.-André Julien, ‘ Histoire de l’Afrique du Nord, Tunesie – Algérie – Maroc, Des Origines a la Conquête Arabe (647 ap. J-C., Paris 1966
    The mess in christian N Africa just before the Muslim conquest, wars, massacres, famines as a result, stupid theological debates, unbelievable.

    This book confirms that jews at the time in N Africa welcomed the Muslim occupiers.
    As did the christians in what now is S France, in the era of
    Jean Deviosse, ‘Charles Martel’, 1978 2006 Paris

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  160. @jilles dykstra

    Gimpel’s argument, as I recall it, is that the mechanics and masons and builders and carpenters just got on with their work, and didn’t get much publicity from the religious and political thinkers of the day. Water wheels were big business, cathedral building even bigger.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  161. @James Thompson

    People long ago, thousands of years, were not stupid.
    When, in the 17th century, hope I have the period right, it was tried to set an Egyptian obelisk vertical the engineer in charge was so unsure that it would succeed that he had a saddled horse ready to escape possible death penalty if it failed.
    Some Stonehenge stones come from a great distance, nobody knows how they did it.
    But already the Romans in what now is the Lebanese Bekaa valley were flabbergasted, they built their temples on far older terraces of huge stone slabs the Romans could neither make nor handle.
    Ötzi, the deep frozen man found on the Austrian Italian border, had implements with him made out of 26 different kinds of wood.
    The problem, for some 1600 years, was christianity.
    The old educated Greeks saw religion as a waste of time for the stupid masses, thus some of them were interested in science.
    Already some 400 BCE a Greek calculated the circumference of the earth at 39.000 km.
    Christians, for some 1600 years, wasted their time on discussions such as if Jesus was god, human, or god, then human, or god and human at the same time, etc

    • Replies: @anon
  162. Logan says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Which were not “northwestern European,” though probably of similar ethnic stock.

    My point is simply that till quite recently NW Europe was a backwater. The civilizational action was in the band from the Med to Japan. With high points popping up at various times in Mesopotamia, the Levant, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Persia, India, SE Asia and China.

    But it’s pretty clear that China was indeed the leader in inventions till only about 500 years ago.

    Just to name a very few: stirrups (the world’s most obvious idea not figured out for 2000 years), printing, paper, windmills, gunpowder, compass, etc.

    It is also obvious that for some obscure reason the Chinese did not always figure out how to use their inventions most effectively.

    For instance, their invention of the compass did not lead them to explore and conquer the rest of the world as the Europeans did. They did not figure out how to most effectively use artillery and massed volley fire infantry. Euros again. Same with printing and paper. Did not lead to mass literacy and (with many other contributors) the development of true science as it did in Europe.

    (Northwestern) Europeans have dominated the world in a most astonishing way for the last few centuries. Before that, not so much.

    Should be noted that Chinese failure to fully exploit their inventions was probably due mostly to various cultural and governmental constraints, not Chinese inability to follow through. For instance, the Chinese made exploratory ocean voyages in the early 1500s that were infinitely more impressive than anything from Europe at the same time. But it was all shut down permanently due to a shift in court politics. Europe, being so divided, had no central body that could just stop Europeans from exploring and conquering elsewhere.

  163. dearieme says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “The contribution of the American colonists was evident at least in the 18th century thanks to Benjamin Franklin”: yes, and Germany gave us the printing press. The point is how absurdly dominant the contributions were from Britain. It’s very strange.

    As for Ben; yes, his lightning conductor was a grand device. His key and kite experiment would have been very revealing had he ever performed it. The main revelation would presumably have been that it would have killed him.

    “England had been exporting its surplus population which was not from the skilled or literate classes who made the Industrial Revolution.” Ignoring for a moment the indentured labourers and convicts, I’ve always assume that the emigrants were disproportionatelyly mediocre – neither highly able nor conspicuously dim.

    Plus, of course, scoundrels fleeing wives, bailiffs, and the long arm of the law.

    • Replies: @anon
  164. EH says:
    @Haxo Angmark

    There is indeed more to it than just IQ, which is necessary but not sufficient. In particular the missing ingredients are: formalized social respect for individual conscience, thought and effort; fluid and relatively flat social hierarchy; natural and warm social cohesion not disrupted by internal competition, and a strong commitment to honesty and fair dealing not only in-group but generally. The Quakers (formally, The Religious Society of Friends) uniquely had all these things which is why, despite never being more than about 200,000 at any one time (hard numbers are difficult to find) they invented more of the modern world than most nations in the Old World, and far more than China over the period from 1650-1950.

    Inventors: Robert Ransome ( perfected iron ploughshare, invented interchangeable parts), Joseph Lister (Antiseptics), Benjamin Huntsman (cast steel), Edward Pease (passenger rail),

    Scientists: Thomas Young (formalized wave theory of light, polymath), John Dalton (chemical atomic theory), Arthur S Eddington (physicist, early advocate of relativity), Thomas Hodgkin (Described Hodgkin’s disease, Sr. contributed to the development of the microscope and the medical specialty of Pathology), Jocelyn Bell Burnell (discovered pulsars, Clerk of the Britain Yearly Meeting 1995-97, the highest position in the Religious Society of Friends)

    Instrument makers:: Daniel Quare (watches), Thomas Tompion (clocks, instruments), George Graham (clocks, instruments, funded first Harrison chronometer which allowed finding longitude of ships),

    Industrialists: Darby family (They redeveloped smelting of iron using coked coal rather than charcoal, invented iron rails (replacing wood), invented steam engine cylinders made from iron rather than brass, made the major components of most steam engines built up to 1775, Abraham Darby III built the world’s first metal bridge in 1781), Cadbury and Rowntree (candy. Cadbury’s invented milk chocolate).

    Mining: Copper and lead mining in Britain were re-instituted in Britain by Quakers, the latter also providing silver which made the entirety of domestically-produced additions to the coinage of the time. Welsh mines owned by Quakers were the first to educate the children of miners (or any large lower-class group), these being the original “Sunday Schools”.

    Finance: Barclay’s and Lloyd’s banks (from goldsmiths and ironmasters, respectively. Many country banks also were set up by Quakers. Prior to this banking was for the rich only. Ironically Barclay’s (long since passed out of Quaker hands) has by far a greater effective control over the world’s corporations than any other firm.)

    Trade: Fixed-price shops were invented by Quakers – prior to this all transactions involved haggling.

    Misc: Humane mental institutions, workhouses in Britain, core of the abolitionist movement, the Conestoga wagon, Pennsylvania

    This is far from an exhaustive list and leaves out many fields. Quakers hardly ever mention any of this, even among themselves. Unfortunately they dropped endogamy around 1900 and since about 1950 or 60 have been concerned almost exclusively with daft left-wing causes, but other groups could learn from their old example.

  165. anon[932] • Disclaimer says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Goodwhites would never be racist. Black cultures was destroyed by Badwhites, and that’s what makes blacks act the way that they do.

    it do

  166. anon[932] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    “The contribution of the American colonists was evident at least in the 18th century thanks to Benjamin Franklin”: yes, and Germany gave us the printing press. The point is how absurdly dominant the contributions were from Britain. It’s very strange.

    Scotland

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @anon
  167. @eah

    Hmmmmm,

    Maybe if your inclined to blame people merely on skin tones that has some salience. But I don’t know any blacks who blame everything on racism. Clearly the evidence supports a national practice of unfairly treating blacks. However that does not mean all things a black person experiences in because of that ill choice of practice and thought.

    But seeking to escape accountability by leaning on genetics is a very very tough slog, because to date there’s no evidence that any dna in uniquely situated in either population that one superior over the other in the area of subject reality.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @eah
  168. Logan says:
    @phil

    It is almost certain that some (much) of the lower IQ in African countries is due to inferior nutrition and other environmental factors during pregnancy and childhood.

    Since absolute poverty is rapidly diminishing in Africa, though still somewhat behind the rest of the world, the average IQ of African children should rise over the next few decades if this hypothesis is correct.

    This assumption is based on the common-sense notion that we know exactly how to decrease IQ but do not understand how to raise it except by eliminating the factors that decrease it. Once those are all gone the underlying biological/nature realities emerge.

  169. anon[932] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Clearly the evidence supports a national practice of unfairly treating blacks.

    where’s the evidence?

    we do have evidence of blacks’ violent, criminal behaviour

  170. anon[932] • Disclaimer says:
    @jilles dykstra

    Christians, for some 1600 years, wasted their time on discussions such as if Jesus was god, human, or god, then human, or god and human at the same time, etc

    tough to argue that

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  171. APilgrim says:

    Note that the Southern Baptists have unknowingly capitulated. — pitiful!

    Southern Baptist Convention’s flagship seminary details its racist, slave-owning past in stark report, By Marisa Iati, Acts of Faith, December 12 at 7:54 PM, https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2018/12/12/southern-baptist-conventions-flagship-seminary-admits-all-four-its-founders-owned-slaves/?utm_term=.2b21fb838e61

    More than two decades after the Southern Baptist Convention — the country’s second-largest faith group — apologized to African Americans for its active defense of slavery in the 1800s, its flagship seminary on Wednesday released a stark report further delineating its ties to institutionalized racism. The year-long study by the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary found that all four founding faculty members owned slaves and “were deeply complicit in the defense of slavery,” R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the seminary, wrote in his introduction to the 72-page report he commissioned.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  172. Sure there is a portion of the black community that engages in criminal activity. No question. And I don’t think you will locate a comment that supports said behavior.

    Crime is no respecter of skin tone. But my comment has been to a practice regarding the socialization of blacks singling them out uniquely for abuse of their rights as citizens. One of those practices is to over generalize crime stats to an entire population few of who engage in criminal activity. And that despite efforts to wrongfully criminalize blacks as a population.

    I think we can dispense with the history lesson on blacks in the US as citizens. In fact, the current twist on the value of IQ is part of the new rational of an old understanding to justify said treatment as has been the use of overgeneralizing blacks as whole and by nature criminals.

    • Replies: @anon
  173. @APilgrim

    Don’t be silly. Acknowledging that you have wronged another is not some kind arbitrary degrading practice – it’s healthy. And for believers — it’s mandatory.

    In short they admitting that skin color a benign trait was a factor in how they treated their fellows, that above all other concerns was first – even shared faith.

    I am single and even I understand that is a basic for having a healthy relationship. I am ever amazed by people who think admitting an actual wrong they have committed is a sign of weakness as if it was a character flaw.

    • Replies: @Talha
  174. anon[932] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    apologist drivel

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  175. eah says:
    @eah

    Racial/ethnic differences in average IQ and the strong correlation (really causation) of this with average outcomes is primarily an economic and socio-political problem — not an academic problem.

  176. @anon

    “apologist drivel”

    There’s a surprising response.

    laugh — good grief.

  177. placing this comment where I intended.

    “apologist drivel”

    There’s a surprising response.

    laugh — good grief.

    Acknowledging historical realities does not require that I bow to every or any argument made by liberals/democrats regardless of whether they are white, blue, green, brown, yellow, purple, orange or black.

    You have repeatedly referenced black criminality as though it represents the entire black population. When in fact, it is a very small segment of the same. That is referred to as an over generalization – false descriptor. Eating a slice of apple pie is not the same as eating the whole pie.

    • Replies: @anon
  178. anon[267] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You have repeatedly referenced black criminality as though it represents the entire black population. When in fact, it is a very small segment of the same.

    good, now have some integrity and go move into a black neighborhood

    enjoy

  179. Now that is interesting. Suppose I returned to my neighborhood in Kansas City. Suppose I get robbed. The robber is black. Now I could assume i was robbed because black men rob. But the reality is more akin to — I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. In fact they (my neighbors) are all black. There’s a good chance than among my neighbors, who rob, I would be robbed by a black robber.

    Well, duh. This kind of self reinforcing narrative is something I would have thought you would have abandoned years ago for some manner of critical thought that is richer.

    I live in predominately white neighborhoods. several months ago a computer was stolen, most likely perpetrator — a white person. Who aided in stalling the recovery of my property “whites”.

  180. Technically, I guess I should say white people and brown (hispanics generally noted as whites and they prefer to noted as whites) people have made recovery difficult

  181. Hail says: • Website
    @Logan

    the Chinese made exploratory ocean voyages in the early 1500s [actually 1400s] that were infinitely more impressive than anything from Europe at the same time. But it was all shut down permanently due to a shift in court politics. Europe, being so divided, had no central body that could just stop Europeans from exploring and conquering elsewhere.

    Reminiscent of the socialist vs. capitalist debate. One monolithic entity vs. multiple, competing entities. Relative strenghts/weaknesses.

    What would Chinese/Asian/world history look like had there been a dozen long-term, stable, rival political entities in what we think of as China?

  182. dearieme says:
    @anon

    “Scotland”. Very gnomic: what do you mean?

  183. dearieme says:
    @Logan

    “the Chinese made exploratory ocean voyages in the early 1500s that were infinitely more impressive than anything from Europe at the same time”: the opposite of the truth. The Chinese fleets visited only parts of the world they knew about by courtesy of their literate neighbours. There was no “exploration” about it. They were “showing the flag”.

  184. I don’t think the Scottish want to claim this.

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/fighting-corruption-in-the-u-s-criminal-justice-system/

    Very much a part of the modern world in the US.

  185. eah says:
    @eah

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  186. dearieme says:
    @anon

    Jolly good. But Scotland is part of Britain; therefore so what?

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
    , @anon
  187. @anon

    Not just christians wasted a lot of time on theological discussions, Muslims did the same
    Gustave E. von Grunebaum, ‘Medieval Islam, A Study in Cultural Orientation’, Chicago, 1946, 1971
    Now, in my usual immodest opinion, these discussions were not really a waste of time, I see them as power struggles.
    Grunebaum presents the Muslim discussions as such, do not know of a similar book on christian debates.
    One of the most interesting theological debates that I’m told that really happened was ‘how many angels can dance on the head of a pin ?’.
    But maybe just some fifty years ago a Dutch protestant church split on the question if the snake in paradise really spoke or not.

  188. @dearieme

    Britain became United Kingdom after Wales and Scotland got a lot of autonomy (back).
    Status of Ulster, do not know.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  189. @eah

    Reminds me of SSPS, a statistical program.
    A professor said ‘my students are quite able in using it, but they cannot interpret the outcomes’.
    IQ cannot be bought.

  190. anon[215] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    apparently the Scots deserve inordinant credit

    btw, im not Scottish, just found it interesting

    • Replies: @dearieme
  191. dearieme says:
    @jilles dykstra

    No. You are entirely wrong.

    The Kingdom of Great Britain was formed from Scotland and England (which included the Principality of Wales) in 1707. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was formed in 1801, and became the UK of GB and Northern Ireland when the Irish Free State seceded in the 1920s.

    “Britain” has two main uses. (i) As an abbreviation of the geographical expression “Great Britain”, and (ii) as a shorthand for the political expression “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”.

    The recent devolution to Scotland and Wales has resulted in no changes of name.

    • Replies: @jilles dykstra
  192. dearieme says:
    @anon

    Yes, the achievement was most impressive, especially for a small, poor country. I imagine it helped that they had taken education very seriously ever since the Reformation. It’s probably only since the setting up of the devolved parliament in Edinburgh that the Scottish schools have lost their marked superiority over English schools. Ironic, eh?

  193. eah says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    But I don’t know any blacks who blame everything on racism.

    I think you are right in that most Blacks do not exclusively or largely blame white racism for the problems of Blacks (eg crime, poverty) — I wanted to acknowledge that.

    I would characterize the rest of your comment as naive and not worthy of a reply.

    Maybe if your inclined

    you’re

  194. @eah

    I have no idea what it is you think is unworthy. The role of genetics is absolute. Sure genetics sets a framework, but that frame exists in a very random set of impacting variables.

    However, it’s impact on subject personality is traits over the impact of environment is simply not that simple.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  195. @EliteCommInc.

    It’s not simple for several reasons:

    1. there is no specific IQ gene, at least it has not been located.

    2. despite having genetic map, we don’t have a model that explains how that map works to the entire system.

    3. even geneticists acknowledge that they have no model that accounts for the impacts of environment.

    All of the evidence of cognitive change that results from a change in environment rebuts some predictable determinant.

    Nothing naive about not basing conclusions on what we don’t have evidence for, such IQ to intelligence.

  196. @eah

    misplaced this — excuse me.

    It’s not simple for several reasons:

    1. there is no specific IQ gene, at least it has not been located.

    2. despite having genetic map, we don’t have a model that explains how that map works to the entire system.

    3. even geneticists acknowledge that they have no model that accounts for the impacts of environment.

    All of the evidence of cognitive change that results from a change in environment rebuts some predictable determinant.

    Nothing naive about not basing conclusions on what we don’t have evidence for, such as IQ to intelligence to skin color or any other benign trait at the exclusion of environment.

    • Replies: @pyrrhus
  197. @EliteCommInc.

    Such a stupidity…

    Buddhism have more in common with neo-leftism [universal morality ”only-for or against-whites” than jewsuscismus.

    Actual christianism is a secularized version of its original form, obscurantist as mostly all mythologies.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  198. Mr. XYZ says:
    @Anatoly Karlin

    Well, I suppose that one could be a Luddite (like the Taliban were back in the 1990s) and support returning the world to what it was in the year 1500 or 1000 or 600 or whatever.

  199. @dearieme

    On what I’m wrong ?
    There is, or was, England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.
    Different in many aspects

    • Replies: @dearieme
  200. @EliteCommInc.

    An interesting article by Tanner Greer. Just a pity he betrays limited previous reading in the field by his suggesting that interest in the rise of Europe ahead of others arose in the last couple of decades. He doesn’t mention, for example, Eric Jones “The European Miracle” published in 1981.

  201. dearieme says:
    @jilles dykstra

    You are entirely wrong when you say “Britain became United Kingdom after Wales and Scotland got a lot of autonomy (back).” It’s just rubbish.

  202. Logan says:
    @Logan

    Error in above comment. I should have referred to Chinese exploratory voyages in the early 1400s, not 1500s.

  203. Epi says:

    I’ve read about 100 comments and one thing that continuously comes up is that Black sub-culture and environment are believed by some to be the “only” reason for the 15 point difference. Some even go on to cite how Blacks are criminals and so on or more are in prison.

    Yet, if Blacks and their sub-culture were the reason, how then to explain why Asians are 15 higher than Whites? Do we then assume their culture is superior? That their environment is better? That Whites are the criminals?

    Whites commit far more crime than Blacks do, though aren’t always convicted for the same crimes. Whites are not a crime-free, gang-free, gun-death-free culture. Lots of very wealth Whites commit huge financial crimes that most of the public agrees is theft and yet never go to prison for it. But the fact remains, Whites commit plenty of crime and have lower scores than Asians, so how do people saying it is Black sub-culture that is the culprit, do so without also saying White sub-culture explains the exact same thing for Whites? Asians have gangs too. Asians murder people too. Asians engage in crime too. But they are 15 higher than Whites according to some published accounts. To say it is environment from Blacks says it would have to be the same for Whites.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @anon
  204. Factorize says:

    I have been reading about the connection of lead to modern social pathology. This is simply fascinating! Basically the entire last century or two can be explained by the neuropathology caused by lead exposure. This perspective offers much greater insight into the extreme social collapse that occurred especially in the US from the 1970s-1990s than do the usual suspects, and the expected ongoing reestablishment of behavioral norms as lead contamination continues to decline. There should be more focus on this topic on unz.com.

  205. Factorize says:

    Why did the US see a surge in violent crime from 1965 until 1990, yet has continued to experience a massive decline since?
    https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/

    .. while the UK experienced a dramatic decline in violent crime only starting in 2007?
    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/02/violent-crime-peaked-britain-2006-because/

    … Middle East terrorism? Set your watches for a decline for most of these nations for 2020-2030.
    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/12/prediction-terrorism-middle-east-will-decline-half-between-2020-and-2040/

    … Japan? Crime is now so low that they needed to redefine the very essence of what crime is.
    Underwear theft? Would that be a felony?
    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/06/crime-rates-sure-are-low-japan-you-know-what-else-low/

    A recent update finds more of the same:
    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/

    Are they kidding? A 90% decline of the age 12 and under property crime arrest rate in the US? The extrapolation suggests that by 2025 this rate might hit ZERO!
    “From 1990-2015, the age 17 and under property crime arrest rate fell 76%, as the age 12 and under property crime arrest rate fell 90%.”
    https://www.ricknevin.com/3-26-2017.html

    Very interesting! The term “juvenile delinquency” was only introduced into the English language at the start of the 19th Century. Guess what was also introduced around this time? With current trends “juvenile delinquency” might be purged from the dictionaries during this century.

    The argument presented above is much more compelling than the typical discussion based on inherited differences in IQ. This hypothesis can actually explain why much of the developed world underwent social collapse from the 1960s-1990s and then has went through a process of recovery.

  206. @Santoculto

    Since your comments are really to the article, I was going to leave it alone. But the reference to

    ” . . . secularized version of its original form, obscurantist as mostly all mythologies.”

    seems to embody some contradiction, but there’s nothing specific laid out. The foundations of christian belief are spiritual.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @Santoculto
  207. dearieme says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    “The foundations of christian belief are spiritual.” What does that mean?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  208. anon[297] • Disclaimer says:
    @Epi

    But they (Asians) are 15 higher than Whites according to some published accounts

    most numbers i see, Asians are 5-7 points higher

    Whites commit far more crime than Blacks do, though aren’t always convicted for the same crimes.

    what do you base this on?

  209. pyrrhus says:

    The religion of egalitarianism is well on its way to destroying science in the West…Newton we hardly knew ya…..

  210. pyrrhus says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Of course there is no single IQ gene. It has been known for some time that it is highly polygenetic, and likely thousands of genes are involved..But there are many studies, including twin studies, showing that environment and upbringing have little or no effect on intelligence.

    • Replies: @EliteComminc.
  211. @pyrrhus

    It’s clear you don’t comprehend the consequence of having not located a gene or the genes, and how they work to advance a genetic formula for high IQ that explicates skin color as the artifact of higher intelligence against environment.

    You are welcome to provide those studies. I would counter that numerous studies have been engaged on the matter of genetics and same sex behavior concerning whether it is choice or biology and that data contradicts you. The very fact that IQ can be raised is an indication that factors beyond genes are at play.

    http://iqandenvironment.blogspot.com/2008/05/list-of-environmental-factors-that.html
    https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence

    What you inherit must produce. And the studies indicate that despite High IQ of both parents their children don’t produce (evidence the same) the same. When they talk about inheroitable traits thay are talking an entire gene struscture structure so of course as you say — biological tranfers are going to be continuous, but unless you can remove said from the same environment into they exist, there simply is not way to definitively note how much is environment to IQ. It probably helps to read the study.

    http://arthurjensen.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/IQ%E2%80%99s-of-Identical-Twins-Reared-Apart-1973-by-Arthur-Robert-Jensen.pdf

    Note how the actual content contradicts the headline.
    https://www.livescience.com/47288-twin-study-importance-of-genetics.html

    There is no question that our genetics lay a foundation for of our physical existence and outcomes. Whether that is a determent variable to subjective existence is another matter. But the press here is not merely the simple reality of DNA, that is a “no kidding.” The issue is whether whiteness is an indication of superior intelligence. And whether should be a qualifier in any way for status , position, etc. The panic strewn press to IQ and skin color is because the evidence is pretty clear that IQ has not prevented major and even catastrophic leadership decisions and moral failings which have had the most negative impact on people with less material or status power. And IQ is a way of expiating those failures and consequence to those most negatively impacted — it’s their fault, and or they deserve it.

    But my position remains the same. Unless you locate a set of physical material and dynamics that operates uniquely in whites, I think it’s a leap too far.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1520-iq-is-inherited-suggests-twin-study/

    It pays to read the studies, even the authors of the articles are taking liberties the research are mindful not to and even add caveats why certain conclusions should be avoided and they are not because they are afraid being outed as racists.

    • Agree: Talha
  212. RWS says:

    Excellent observation, Mr. D.

    My thought is that many of the clerisy — who should be able not only to read but to understand — feel so burdened by the problems of everyday life (earning money, arranging family matters, and more) and are so fearful of being perceived as unkind that they are unwilling to evaluate others as different in any way from themselves, at least in potential. (Of course, these same dissemblers readily discriminate privately, even on bases of wealth, appearance, or faith.)

  213. @EliteCommInc.

    You just take part of my comment and created a contradiction…

    Good Santo Klaus

  214. @dearieme

    It means,

    “Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit.”

    says the Lord.

    Zechariah 4:6

    ” Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.”

    Timothy 1:6-7
    https://www.sermoncentral.com/sermons/not-by-might-nor-by-power-but-by-my-spirit-edward-hardee-sermon-on-holy-spirit-attributes-114124

    I could certainly cite more from the OT and the NT.

  215. @Santoculto

    As I indicated, based on what you stated . . it’s unclear.

    Here’s your comment,

    “Buddhism have more in common with neo-leftism [universal morality ”only-for or against-whites” than jewsuscismus.

    Actual christianism is a secularized version of its original form, obscurantist as mostly all mythologies.”

    As I indicated, your meaning is unclear but by definition —- denotes a nonsecular construct. I think there was an invitation to expound in further detail what you mean.

  216. @Santoculto

    correction: As I indicated, your meaning is unclear but by definition “christiniaty” —- denotes a nonsecular belief and practice.

  217. Anonymous[873] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jim Christian

    Haha lol.

    The rich SWPLs of DC / NOVA who shop at Whole Foods and Wegmans have jealousy guarded “family silver” and make crude racial comments about ‘the help’ which are captured “a million times” by spyware secretly installed by the unrecognized genius cable guy? Let me guess, their names are Biff and Buffy, too?

    Unless this is a summary of a cheezy video shown at mandatory diversity trainings, I declare it one of the top ten fantastical fantasies I have read this year. Well done, sir.

  218. Factorize says:

    2018 has been a watershed year for psychometrics.

    The publication of the large EA GWAS and the recent announcement of CRISPRing should provoke all of us to deeply contemplate the world of the future as the new year approaches. This year a marvelous potential world of universally high IQ went from obscure blog posts to headline news.

    Best wishes to all as we move ever closer to the Cognitive Singularity.

  219. Okechukwu says:

    Flynn also said that it’s conceivable that black people have a genetic advantage in intelligence.

  220. @Okechukwu

    Jensen said it was possible that the brightest person would be black. A group difference indicates a probability, not a certainty. Equally, it is likely that the brightest person would be a man, but it could be a woman.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  221. @Okechukwu

    Jensen said it was possible that the brightest person would be black. A group difference indicates a probability, not a certainty. Equally, it is likely that the brightest person would be a man, but it could be a woman.

  222. Okechukwu says:
    @James Thompson

    How do you establish a group difference? Certainly not with IQ, which can be learned. We have to assume that there is no group difference until proven otherwise.

    This is a question that’s virtually impossible to answer. But it’s highly unlikely that nature created group differences in intelligence given that no other complex trait is discretely differentiated.

    • Agree: Bliss
    • Replies: @James Thompson
  223. @Okechukwu

    Have a look through the blog, which addresses these issues.

  224. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    Do you have a reference for specifically what he said? Conceivable is very different from likely (IMO, apparently not everyone agrees with me: https://thesaurus.plus/related/conceivable/likely ).

    Wandering off topic, I thought this brief discussion about conceivable/possible/probable was interesting: http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/1729
    Quantum mechanics is a good example of something that is likely, but not really conceivable.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  225. Okechukwu says:
    @res

    Do you have a reference for specifically what he said? Conceivable is very different from likely (IMO, apparently not everyone agrees with me: https://thesaurus.plus/related/conceivable/likely ).

    Well did Flynn ever say that it was LIKELY that white people have a genetic advantage over black people in intelligence? Of course he didn’t. You see, he doesn’t know. But he would probably answer that it’s conceivable but unlikely.

    • Replies: @res
  226. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    Agreed. Do you have a reference so I can see his actual words? Nuance can be important.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  227. Okechukwu says:
    @res

    I don’t have a direct quotation. According to Ezra Klein, Flynn said something along those lines.

    James Flynn just said to me two days ago that it is consistent with the evidence that there is a genetic advantage or disadvantaged for African Americans. That it is entirely possible that the 10-point IQ difference we see reflects a 12-point environmental difference and a negative-two genetic difference.

    https://www.vox.com/2018/4/9/17210248/sam-harris-ezra-klein-charles-murray-transcript-podcast

    • Replies: @res
  228. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    Thanks. I don’t exactly consider Ezra Klein and Vox reliable (i.e. even somewhat unbiased) reporters so an actual Flynn quote would still help if anyone has one.

    I followed your link and it also includes the following claimed to be an actual quote, which sounds plausible.

    His read of the evidence right now, and this is me quoting him. He says, “I think it is more probably than not that the IQ difference between black and white Americans is environmental. As a social scientist, I cannot be sure if they have a genetic advantage or disadvantage.”

    That second sentence is a pretty weak statement (cannot be sure). As of this moment I actually agree with it. The first sentence assumes a false dichotomy so I am not sure how to interpret it (I would very much like to hear Flynn clarify what he means there).

    When assessing “quotes” it is also useful to know whether the words were chosen by the quotee or responsive (e.g. to a loaded interview type question). I suspect the excerpt you gave is the latter. Perhaps paraphrased or otherwise “interpreted.”

    P.S. Regarding things like “cannot be sure” I prefer to think in terms of betting. What odds (or thresholds) would it take (on either side) for me to accept that bet? I am risk averse in this context so the responses tend not to be symmetric.

    • Replies: @Okechukwu
  229. Factorize says:

    Grand, generic pronouncements of group differences in cognitive ability should no longer be accepted without challenge. Technology already exists that could make such statements invalid. While in the past they preserved an element of truth over a time frame of thousands of years, it is self-apparent that such truth will not be preserved for another century.

    In recognition of this, group cognitive differences should only be referenced by clearly designating the age range and specific location of the group under discussion. Group cognitive differences should no longer be reported as a permanent psychometric feature. This is understood to be false. It is entirely possible that starting in April of this year, a new cognitive ability generation could begin to be born

  230. Okechukwu says:
    @res

    The first sentence assumes a false dichotomy

    You lost me there. How so?

    P.S. Regarding things like “cannot be sure” I prefer to think in terms of betting. What odds (or thresholds) would it take (on either side) for me to accept that bet? I am risk averse in this context so the responses tend not to be symmetric.

    Historically, strongly held pseudoscientific positions have been proven wrong, particularly as pertains the abilities or inabilities of black people. So with the passage of time, what we have is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance as these claims and theories are thoroughly refuted one after another.

    So you would lose that bet. You would lose it right now based on the evidence. You would lose it conclusively under an experiment with proper scientific controls.

    • Replies: @res
  231. res says:
    @Okechukwu

    The first sentence assumes a false dichotomy

    You lost me there. How so?

    His first sentence is quoted as: “I think it is more probably than not that the IQ difference between black and white Americans is environmental.”

    I suppose my interpretation is arguable. I read that sentence as having an implicit “rather than genetic” at the end. This is because of “the IQ difference” implying all of the difference is environmental. I think rewriting that sentence as “I think it is more probable than not that most of the IQ difference between black and white Americans is environmental.” would more accurately reflect Flynn’s view.

    That is why I think the quote might be incorrect. Flynn comes across as a nuanced and precise thinker. Have you ever been interviewed? Reporters getting quotes exactly right is hard enough when they are sympathetic.

    So you would lose that bet. You would lose it right now based on the evidence. You would lose it conclusively under an experiment with proper scientific controls.

    Given that I talked about taking either side of the bet (depending on the odds offered) it is hard to conclude I would lose it ; )

    But I assume you are talking about me betting on the disadvantage side of “I cannot be sure if they have a genetic advantage or disadvantage.”

    We will see who is correct, eventually. I’m curious, do you also think pygmys have a genetic height advantage over everyone else?

  232. Jmaie says:
    @joe

    profit himself has one best choice: (D)emocrat politician…it has a lot to do with psychopaths rising to the top of any organization where morals are a tertiary concern.

    You apparently have not spent enough time paying attention to politicians, specifically their actions as compared with the positions/policies they espouse. The nature of psychopathy is to take advantage of any situation regardless of the outward appearance, and political parties are amoral by nature.

    • Replies: @Jmaie
  233. Jmaie says:
    @Jmaie

    To clarify, I meant “pay attention to politicians of all parties…”

  234. OK… so I just raised my BOTE estimate of the ‘environment’ side of the nature/nurture contributions (not that it matters – of which more below).

    I have known for some time that Flynn is a Kiwi – which is a datapoint for the ‘nature’ side, coz Kiwi pakeha are smart as, cuzzie.

    TIL he was born a Yank (ergo from objectively the least-literate and least-numerate cohort of the OECD[1]).

    He ‘transitioned’ to unleash his inner Kiwi (he arrived in Ao Tea Roa in his late ’20s – a couple of years before I was born; not sure how long after that he was Kiwified).

    Kiwis score higher than Yanks on PIAAC on both literacy and numeracy- even counting the brown folks and immigrants. (In fact, NZ scores higher on numeracy than Australia, England, Canada and France – almost equal to Germany, but with slightly higher variance)

    So Flynn moved from a dumb country to a smarter one. Checkmate, racists!

    Regardless of the appropriate weights for nature and nurture, the primary question is “Do we want a society in which we justify not helping the submerged fifth because they are X% genetically stupid?” (X ∈ [0,…100])

    Coz let’s be clear: if X ≥ 40 – i.e., IQ differentials have a significant genetic component… it’s a reason not to help stupid whites.

    In any case, I don’t give a fuck about the relative nature/nurture weights, since stupid people raise their children in dysgenic environments anyhow.

    This is what motivates my vehement opposition to welfare subsidies for reproduction – since those subsidies do not furnish incentives to the rich/smart cohort, so they ‘stimulate’ the poor and stupid to out-breed the rest.

    [1] for evidence that the adult US population has the lowest literacy and numeracy in the OECD, gorge on the following outputs of the OECD’s PIAAC study (the largest cross-sectional study of adult cognition ever undertaken: N=165,000).

    Repository:

    OECD PIAAC Publications

    Key Documents:

    OECD (2013), OECD Skills Outlook 2013: First Results from the Survey Of Adults Skills
    • pp63-67 give an overview of what adults can do at each of the five assessed literacy levels;
    • pp75-78 do the same for numeracy;
    • pp 87-90 do likewise for problem-solving.

    OECD, “The OECD Programme for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies (PIAAC)” , 2010 (boring methodological document)

    OECD The Survey of Adult Skills: Reader’s Companion, Second Edition

    Rammstedt et al (2013) PIAAC 2012: Overview of the Main Results
    • p5 gives the mapping from raw test scores to the 5 assessment levels;
    • p7-8 give examples of test criteria for the different levels
    • p9 gives the median score/PIAAC level for each OECD country.

    NZ Results are in OECD (2016) Skills Matter: Further Results from the Survey of Adult Skills – New Zealand

  235. @Kratoklastes

    Oh… and it seemsthat Flynn is on the same page as regards dumb reproduction: his puckishly-suggested solution is elegant, if stupid –

    “I do have faith in science, and science may give us something that renders conception impossible unless you take an antidote,” he said.

    “You could of course have a chemical in the water supply and have to take an antidote. If you had contraception made easier by progress, then every child is a wanted child.”

    He was obviously not serious about that, since he’s not a fucking idiot. It would have the same problems as water fluoridation: treating entire populations with an endocrine disruptor, in doses that vary according to thirst rather than objectively-quantified diagnostic need.

    (Fluoride also ‘crowds out’ iodine/iodide in the thyroid, leading to systemic shortages of T3 and T4, which are important metabolic regulators; no surprise then that obese-tards often have thyroid ‘issues’).

    More importantly, he points out why folks like him and Watson can speak their minds –

    Dr Flynn said at 73 he was too old to worry about offending anyone.

  236. @Kratoklastes

    An excellent reminder. My search bar does not work at the moment, but I did a comment piece on this some years ago.

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