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Erdogan’s Turkey and Seven Deadly Sins
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Introduction

Multiple wars ravage the Middle East. Turkey has inserted itself into the middle of most of these regional conflicts and ended up a loser.

Under President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Turkey has intervened and formed alliances with a rogue’s gallery of imperial warlords, terrorists-mercenaries, Zionist expansionists, feudal potentates and obscure tribal chiefs, with disastrous economic, political and military consequences for the Turkish nation.

In this paper we will discuss Turkey’s domestic and foreign policies and behavior over the past decade. We will conclude with lessons for middle range powers, which might help in future decisions

President Erdogan’s Domestic Disasters

Throughout the early decade of the 21st century, Erdoğan made a strategic alliance with an influential semi-clandestine organization led by a cult-leading cleric, Fethullah Gülen, who was conveniently self-exiled in the US and under the protection of the US intelligence apparatus. This marriage of convenience was formed in order to weaken the leftist, secular and Ataturk nationalist influenced opposition. Armed with the Gülenists’ treasure trove of forged documents, Erdoğan purged the military of its Ataturk nationalist leadership. He proceeded to marginalize the secular Republican Party and repressed leftist trade union, social movements and prominent academics, journalists, writers and student activists. With support from the Gülenists movement, ‘Hizmet’, Erdoğan celebrated his successes and won multiple election and re-election victories!

Initially, Erdoğan failed to recognize that the Gülenists/Hizmet operated as a subversive political organization, which permeated the state apparatus through a dense network of bureaucratic, military, judicial, police, and civil society organizations, with ties to the US military/CIA and friendly relations with Israeli policy makers.

By 2013, Erdoğan felt intense pressure from the Gülenists/Hizmet which sought to discredit and oust his regime by revealing multi-million dollar corrupt practices involving him and his family in a ‘Turquoise Color Revolution’ – remake of other ‘regime changes’.

Having discovered his internal vulnerability, Erdoğan moved to curtail the power and reach of the Gülenists/Hizmet controlled media. He was not yet prepared to deal with the immense scope and depth of the elite links to Gülenists/Hizmet. A Gülenists-led military coup was launched in July 2016, with the tacit support of the US military stationed in Turkey. This was foiled by a major popular mobilization with the support of the armed forces.

Erdoğan then moved to thoroughly purge the followers of Hizmet from the military, public administration, schools, business, the press and public and private institutions. He extended his purge to include secular and nationalist political leaders who had always opposed the Gülenists and their attempted coup d’état.

As a result of the coup attempt and the subsequent purge, Erdoğan weakened and fractured every aspect of the state and civil society. Erdoğan ended up securing control of a weakened state with a degraded business, educational and cultural world.

The Gülenists coup was authored and led by its supremo Fethullah Gülen, ensconced in his ‘secret’ private estate in the United States. Clearly the US was implicated in the coup and they rejected Erdoğan’s demands to extradite him.

Erdoğan’s subservience to the US/NATO leadership have undermined his attempts to strike at the roots of the coup and its internal and external power structure. The US/NATO military bases still operate in Turkey and retain influence over its military.

In the aftermath of the coup, the decline of Gülenist influence in the economy contributed to economic reversals in investments and growth. The purge of the military and civil society reduced Turkey’s military preparedness and alienated the democratic electorate. Erdoğan had already nearly lost his bid to the presidency after his earlier purges in 2014.

Erdoğan’s Foreign Policy Disasters

Perversity is when a ruler weakens its military and represses its citizens and launches a series of risky foreign adventures: This is exactly what Erdoğan has done over the past several years.

First Erdoğan backed a terrorist uprising in Syria, providing arms, recruiting overseas ‘volunteers’ and providing them with unrestricted passage across the Turkish border. Many of the terrorists proceeded to join forces with Syrian, Iraqi and Turkish Kurds in establishing military bases on Ankara’s borders.

Secondly, Erdoğan ran a scurrilous electoral campaign among the millions of ethnic Turks living in Germany – violating that powerful nation’s sovereignty. As a result, Erdoğan increased tensions and animosity with what had been its closest ally in its quest for EU membership – effectively terminating the process.

Thirdly, Erdoğan backed NATO’s invasion and bombing of Libya, killing President Gadhafi, who had been an independent voice, capable of serving as a possible ally against imperial intervention in North Africa.

Fourthly, Erdoğan backed the brief government of Mohammed Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood after its electoral victory in 2012 following the ‘Arab Spring’ uprising in Egypt of 2011. He backed a formula similar to his own Turkish policy of excluding the secular, democratic opposition. This led to a bloody US-backed military coup led by General Abdel Sisi in July 2013 – a lesson not lost on Erdoğan.

Fifth, Erdoğan’s de facto friendly relations with Israel – despite verbal criticism – in the face of Tel Aviv’s assassination of nine non-violent Turkish protestors trying to break the starvation blockade of Gaza – undermined relations with the pro-Palestine Arab world and nationalists in Turkey.

Sixth, Erdoğan developed lucrative ties with Iraqi Kurd dictator-warlord, Masoud Barzani, facilitating the flow of oil to Israel. Erdoğan’s own illicit oil deals with Barzani strengthened the cause of Kurdish separatism and exposed the widespread corruption of Erdoğan’s family dealings.

Seventh, Erdoğan provoked military tensions with Russia by shooting down a warplane in Syria. This led to an economic boycott, which reduced export earnings, devastated the tourism sector and added Moscow to his list of adversaries, (Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, US, Germany, Hezbollah and Iran).

Eighth, Erdoğan backed the tiny oil-state of Qatar, sending supplies and soldiers to oppose a threat from Saudi Arabia, the other royal oil statelets and Egypt, US allies and followers.

ORDER IT NOW

Despite his many disastrous domestic and foreign policies, Erdoğan learned nothing and forgot nothing. When the Israelis backed the Iraqi Kurds in organizing an independence ‘referendum’ aiming to ultimately annex the rich oil fields of Northern Iraq, Erdoğan took no action despite this threat to Turkish national security. He merely made verbal threats to cut off the Kurd’s access to Ankara’s oil pipelines. He took no concrete steps. Erdoğan preferred to pocket transit taxes from the oil, antagonizing Iraq and Syria and strengthening the links between Kurdish Iraq and its secessionist counterparts in Syria and Turkey.

Because of Erdoğan failure to close down the US military base following its support of the Gülenist-led coup, the Turkish army is still heavily under US influence, opening the possibility of another uprising.

Erdoğan’s lip-service to ‘nationalism’ has served mainly as a political tool to repress domestic democratic political parties and trade unions and the Kurdish and Alevi communities. Erdoğan’s initial support and subsequent opposition to the jihadi terrorist groups seeking to oust the secular-nationalist government in Damascus has caused ‘blowback’ – with ISIS terrorist cells bombing civilian targets Istanbul and Ankara with mass casualties.

Conclusion

Erdoğan’s unprincipled, opportunistic and pro-imperialist NATO alliance demonstrates the inability of an aspiring regional power to find a niche in the US Empire. Erdoğan believed that being a loyal ‘ally’ of the US would protect Turkey from a coup d’état. He failed to realize that he had become a disposable pawn in US plans to instill more servile rulers (like the Gülenist) in the Middle East.

Erdoğan’s belief that Turkey’s collaboration with the US to overthrow Syria’s President Bashar Assad would lead to a successful territorial grab of Northern Syria: instead Erdoğan ended up serving the US-backed Syrian Kurds tied to the Turkish Kurds .By working to break up Syria and destroy its state and government, Erdoğan strengthened Kurdish cross border expansionism.

Erdoğan failed to recognize the most basic rule of imperial policy: There are no permanent allies there are only permanent interests. Erdoğan thought Turkey would be ‘rewarded’ by acting as a US surrogate with a share of power, wealth and territory in the Middle East. Instead, as a ‘normal’ imperial power, the US used Turkey when it was convenient and would then dispose of Erdoğan – like a used condom.

Anti-imperialism is not just an ideal and moral/ethical principle – it is a realistic approach to safeguarding sovereignty, democratic politics and meaningful alliances.

(Republished from The James Petras Website by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Erdogan, Middle East, Turkey 
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  1. FB says:

    An excellent, although rather succinct summary of the shortcomings of the conniver Erdogan…

    But Erdo is also dangerous…and must be handled with care…

    The fact that nobody trusts him is also an advantage…you can never be sure what zig or zag he will make…

    In Syria he was the main conduit for the foreign mercenary/terrorist invasion from the start…he and his acolytes profited handsomely from ISIS oil trucked into Turkey…[all while the US was supposedly air-striking ISIS in Syria since 2014, but somehow didn't notice the 1,200 tanker trucks winding their way to the Turkish border...]

    When Russia stepped in to defend Syria against what everyone by now recognizes as a foreign-orchestrated terrorist invasion for regime change [to the sole benefit of a certain squatter nation in the Levant]…he first made the mistake of directly drawing Russian blood…[again one can only speculate who might have been whispering in his ear to do that...]

    But it didn’t take him long to spring back into shape when he realized that that ear-whisperer [whoever that might be..cough...cough] had played him for a sucker…

    Post coup attempt…here’s our Erdo cap in hand at the Kremlin…and, after heartfelt apologies for the downed airman to his ‘friend’ Putin, he insinuated his way into the Astana peace process as one of three ‘guarantors’…

    And hot on the heels of Putin’s reciprocal visit to Ankara to cement this beautiful new friendship…Erdo launched his invasion of the northern part of Aleppo province under the Euphrates Shield ‘anti-terror’ operation…

    Now it is being reported that that children starting school are learning Turkish…Turkish post offices, hospitals etc are also popping up…

    ‘Don’t worry,’ Erdo says ‘…We don’t have a wish to occupy these lands but we want the rightful owners to go back there…’

    Whoever those ‘rightful owners’ might be we can only guess…but the government of UN member state Syria is not amused and has now demanded that Turkey withdraw its occupation forces from the country…

    Oh…and Erdogan’s troops have now entered the terrorist-held Idlib province…as part of the Astana de-escalation agreement…Reuters tells us…

    Curiously…

    ‘The convoy was escorted by fighters from Tahrir al-Sham, an alliance of jihadist groups including the former al Qaeda affiliate previously known as the Nusra Front…’

    So it seems that in spite of all his many shortcomings and ‘mistakes’…Mr. Erdo is still causing people everywhere to tear their hair out…

    It is dangerous to underestimate a small carnivore like a fox or a jackal…what they lack in size they make up for in sheer cunning and audacity…

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Good post!
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  2. Neddal says:

    Erdogan’s genus seems to be his continued ability to maintain the sheep’s disguise throughout the varying permutations of power configurations that have unfolded across Turkey since his coming unto the scene. Judging from the list of accomplishments enumerated here and elsewhere, he clearly has proven himself to be extremely effective as the head of US/NATO’s fifth column in Turkey. He managed to transform the entirety of its political and cultural landscape away from the secular, nationalistic, and strongly independent, left-oriented trajectory it had been embarked on prior to his insertion into power. Externally, he acted in exactly the manner needed to advance US/NATO/Israel plans for fracturing the region ahead of breaking it apart into variegated motley of smaller, weaker, and feuding proto-, pseudo- ,or dysfunctional states that are defined along ethnic and sectarian lines with deep-rooted, nearly irreconcilable differences. So, this wolf, likely a Gray one, appears to have been, and remains, quite the win, from the “right” perspective.

    Read More
    • Replies: @survey-of-disinfo

    [F]racturing the region ahead of breaking it apart into variegated motley of smaller, weaker, and feuding proto-, pseudo- ,or dysfunctional states that are defined along ethnic and sectarian lines with deep-rooted, nearly irreconcilable differences.
     
    A strategy that is succinctly termed as Africanisation.

    -

    The article mentions the "American empire". The notion of the "American" empire evokes the same chuckles as Forbe's list of "Richest people".

    Mr. Petras, can we please call a spade -- "Anglo-Zionist" empire -- by its proper name? I'm not being merely pedantic here. The correct name allows for a wider historic view of the subject matter, and does not introduce and induce analytical errors. It also reassures your readers that you are not Yet Another Propagandist (YAP).
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  3. I always am impressed by those who know what a psychopath thinks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    I agree. He is a textbook psychopath, in my opinion. And I believe his ambitions and designs are global, not just regional.

    An “it’s my way or the highway” type of attitude and approach.
    [...]
    For the record, I personally don’t believe that Angela Merkel is a psychopath, but I am pretty sure Erdogan is:

    President Erdogan is no stranger to blackmailing the EU. He has previously used migrants as a ‘loaded gun’ with which to threaten European leaders. The message is clear: do what I say, or I’ll open the floodgates.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-genetics-of-genius/#comment-1933523

    Without Erdogan flooding Europe with Syrian War refugees and ISIS fighters, etc., I don't think Trump would have been elected president or BREXIT would have happened.

    A few years ago George Friedman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Friedman predicted World War 3 would take place between Turkey (Sunni Islam) and Poland (Catholic Christianity).

    I tended to dismiss this scenario and idea, but not so much anymore.

    In the following video he talks mostly about a military confrontation between these two powers/civilizations, and I don't completely dismiss the possibility of such a scenario, but I actually believe that World War 3 is not going to primarily be a military confrontation, but instead a demographic war waged by means of (illegal) (im)migration, fertility rates, etc.

    George Friedman Predicts World War 3 Between Turkey and Poland

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtykfyU9CqI

    Smithsonian Magazine
    Published on Jul 19, 2010
    Looking at the future of geopolitics, the author reveals the surprising results of his research


    The main battle of the Clash of Civilizations will be fought between Sunni Islam led by Turkey and Catholic Christianity led by the Vatican, in my opinion.

    The main battlefield is continental Europe, plus the ``Holy Land'', but the U.S. is also affected, because in order for the Vatican to diplomatically and militarily support its satellites like Poland, it needs to control the U.S. and the rest of the Anglosphere, which are traditionally Protestant nations, who are usually not terribly interested in continental European affairs. The Vatican is trying to achieve this goal in the U.S. and the rest of the Anglosphere, like Turkey is trying to achieve it in Europe, through demographic warfare, e.g., (im)migration and higher birth rates, etc.:

    Erdogan calls on Turkish families in Europe to have five children to protect against 'injustices' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/erdogan-calls-turkish-families-have-five-children-bulwark-against/

    Do you think this is just a coincidence and accident that Britain is being “Catholizied” through open borders?

    Poles are now largest foreign-born contingent in Britain as migration grows

    [...]
    Polish involvement in the 2003 invasion of Iraq – Wikipedia
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-killing-of-history/#comment-2021523

    Poland Becomes Global Player After Backing U.S. in Iraq War

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB105233629065309800

    I personally believe, after much research, that the biggest threat to the sovereignty of the United States comes from the Vatican/Roman Catholicism, whereas the biggest threat to Europe comes from Mecca/Islam.

    The Jewish influence I see mostly as an intellectual/ideological challenge, but the Vatican and Mecca threats are demographic threats, and as they say, Demography is Destiny, and therefore I consider them to be greater, long-term threats than the Jewish control of the media, Wall Street, etc., which I see as more of a temporary, short-term challenge.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/rule-or-ruin/#comment-1624652

    More significantly, the British Protestant percentage has declined to about 20%, making it smaller than Catholics. - http://theconversation.com/census-2016-shows-australias-changing-religious-profile-with-more-nones-than-catholics-79837

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Distribution_of_Catholics.png/550px-Distribution_of_Catholics.png

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

    Ok, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but I believe this is the true battle going on. It is much bigger than just Erdogan, the U.S., etc.

    I believe Huntington's ``Clash of Civilizations'' model is very prescient:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Huntington_Clash_of_Civilizations_chart.gif/300px-Huntington_Clash_of_Civilizations_chart.gif

    Source: https://blogs.harvard.edu/mesh/2008/01/clashing_civilizations_revisited/

    The the only flaw I see with it is the following:

    he, for example, does not distinguish between Protestant and Catholic culture within Western Civilization,
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979

    George Friedman and Ambassador Matthew Bryza on Turkey

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiG2gI05HE4

    Geopolitical Futures
    Published on Apr 20, 2017
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  4. OCGOKTAS says:

    As a regular Turkish person living in Turkey, I can say that this author needs stop writing anything about Turkey. Simply he does not understand anything about her. And so shameless and without any virtue to admits the coup was a Gulen plot with ties to the US military/CIA. Even the stupid understands that the coup was a US military/CIA plot with ties to the Gulen. Do you know what crimes is considered the ultimate, supreme, most evil crime under international law? It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression. US is probably the ultimate double standard untrustworthy nation in this world throughout modern history. Believe me as Muslim person I am not saying this with a hatred to regular American People and for their culture of which I have only great sympathy. However, the same people especially in this side of the world let -Americas Wars Driven By Jews- to say it simple. The best thing which could happen to this country and its people would be get rid of this shameless politicians or writers. A few last words to the Author, ERDOGAN over the last 14 years has made mistakes but he has also made many many good things for his people. And to most of his people, he is a very righteous and trustworthy person. Nevertheless, what the heck we know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression}

    Not genocide?
    Of course not: you are a Turk; genocide comes naturally to you UygurTürkoğlar, so it's not a crime.
    The ultimate crime is supposedly aggression? And US is the one?
    OK: let's play along and see.

    - Turkish military has invaded Syria, and is currently occupying Syrian territory.
    - Turkey has invaded Iraq several times over the years.
    - Turkey invaded the sovereign state of Cyprus, and is still occupying ~40% of it.

    Turkey is a criminal, genocidal, IslamoFascist state, that is a foreign organism in Asia Minor and a menace to the entire region. US has done a lot bad things, but a Turk ragging on America is rich.
    Your nomad ancestors from Uyguristan are the ultimate aggressors: invading, burning, pillaging, destroying, looting, murdering, massacring, raping, stealing murdered Christians' children,.....
    A plague.

    At least America has given the world and humanity multitudes of wonderful things that enrich the lives of people. What have you savage nomad Turks given humanity other than death, destruction - and genocide.


    {.... he is a very righteous and trustworthy person}

    -Erdogan's men organized two deadly bombings of peaceful Kurdish gatherings a couple of years ago, killing and maiming hundreds of young Kurds.
    -Turkish MIT in collaboration with ISIS organized the chemical attack of Ghouta, Syria, in 2013.
    Hundreds of civilians and children were killed. Turkish cops even stopped some of the trucks carrying chemicals to ISIS, without knowing it was a MIT operation.
    -Erdogan's son was involved in years long trade of stolen Syrian oil in collaboration with ISIS.


    The whole Erdogan family is corrupt, from top to bottom.

    , @jilles dykstra
    When trying to find who did what in things like this the first question must be 'who benefits ?'.
    It seems obvious that it is Erdogan.
    For me he thus is the prime suspect in the coup show.
    , @kemerd

    Nevertheless, what the heck we know.
     
    You, indeed, don't know what you are talking about. Or, perhaps, you are one of those notorious professional trolls in Erdogan's payroll.

    In fact, Mr. Petras is remarkably well-informed about Turkish internal politics for a foreigner (except that there were no popular mobilization against the coup, the military itself stopped the plotters, perhaps as a last minute change of heart. Nobody actually knows what really happened)

    K.
    , @Cato
    You are right, of course: Gulen is a CIA asset. But take a look at the kind of response your truth gets, even from the free-thinking people at unz.com. As I write this, I see three responses: a diverse selection that includes an Armenian hater of Turks, an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and a fool so delusional as to deny even the Shoah. It will be a long time before Americans become sophisticated enough to understand how their policies have provoked the rest of the world.
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  5. OCGOKTAS says:

    Dear Author, ‘Blessed are the people whose leaders can look destiny in the eye without flinching but also without attempting to play God’. Henry Kissinger is talking about ERDOGAN

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  6. Avery says:
    @OCGOKTAS
    As a regular Turkish person living in Turkey, I can say that this author needs stop writing anything about Turkey. Simply he does not understand anything about her. And so shameless and without any virtue to admits the coup was a Gulen plot with ties to the US military/CIA. Even the stupid understands that the coup was a US military/CIA plot with ties to the Gulen. Do you know what crimes is considered the ultimate, supreme, most evil crime under international law? It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression. US is probably the ultimate double standard untrustworthy nation in this world throughout modern history. Believe me as Muslim person I am not saying this with a hatred to regular American People and for their culture of which I have only great sympathy. However, the same people especially in this side of the world let -Americas Wars Driven By Jews- to say it simple. The best thing which could happen to this country and its people would be get rid of this shameless politicians or writers. A few last words to the Author, ERDOGAN over the last 14 years has made mistakes but he has also made many many good things for his people. And to most of his people, he is a very righteous and trustworthy person. Nevertheless, what the heck we know.

    {It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression}

    Not genocide?
    Of course not: you are a Turk; genocide comes naturally to you UygurTürkoğlar, so it’s not a crime.
    The ultimate crime is supposedly aggression? And US is the one?
    OK: let’s play along and see.

    - Turkish military has invaded Syria, and is currently occupying Syrian territory.
    - Turkey has invaded Iraq several times over the years.
    - Turkey invaded the sovereign state of Cyprus, and is still occupying ~40% of it.

    Turkey is a criminal, genocidal, IslamoFascist state, that is a foreign organism in Asia Minor and a menace to the entire region. US has done a lot bad things, but a Turk ragging on America is rich.
    Your nomad ancestors from Uyguristan are the ultimate aggressors: invading, burning, pillaging, destroying, looting, murdering, massacring, raping, stealing murdered Christians’ children,…..
    A plague.

    At least America has given the world and humanity multitudes of wonderful things that enrich the lives of people. What have you savage nomad Turks given humanity other than death, destruction – and genocide.

    {…. he is a very righteous and trustworthy person}

    -Erdogan’s men organized two deadly bombings of peaceful Kurdish gatherings a couple of years ago, killing and maiming hundreds of young Kurds.
    -Turkish MIT in collaboration with ISIS organized the chemical attack of Ghouta, Syria, in 2013.
    Hundreds of civilians and children were killed. Turkish cops even stopped some of the trucks carrying chemicals to ISIS, without knowing it was a MIT operation.
    -Erdogan’s son was involved in years long trade of stolen Syrian oil in collaboration with ISIS.

    The whole Erdogan family is corrupt, from top to bottom.

    Read More
    • Agree: Che Guava
    • Replies: @OCGOKTAS
    Your hatred blinds your eyes. Turkey have no intention of invading Syria or Iraq. Since thosr people are our forever neigbors. Bu also totally ready to fight againist plans of making up states by US and others.
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  7. A point about the EU. Erdogan was elected on a pledge to withdraw Turkey’s EU application. That suited everybody inasmuch as the EU has never wanted Turkey as a member and its application was always seen as a US ploy to undermine the European cultural identity of the EU and turn it into a mere free trade area. Faced with threats of a coup from the pro-US military, Erdogan backed off but now, in the aftermath of the failed coup, both Erdogan and EU leaders have found the excuse they were looking for to break off accession negotiations. Turkey’s existing association agreement is very beneficial to Turkey, so abandoning the idea of accession does no damage to either side. European politicians are like American TV wrestlers. They prance about in front of the TV cameras pretending to fight, call each other nasty names and pretend to hate eich other but the whole thing is just an elaborate dance (and everybody in Europe knows that!). They’re actually the best of friends!

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    • Replies: @Seamus Padraig

    ... the EU has never wanted Turkey as a member and its application was always seen as a US ploy to undermine the European cultural identity of the EU and turn it into a mere free trade area.
     
    I keep promising myself that I'm going to stop wasting my time by replying to Michael Kenny's inane rants, but then he goes and posts a humdinger like this!

    FYI, Mr. Kenny: there is no shared European culture for the US or anyone else to undermine! Centuries ago, before the Reformation, there was Christendom. But that's long gone now. All that's left are national cultures: German, French, Italian, Lithuanian, Luxemburgish, etc.
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  8. Ben10 says:

    So the NATO-ist sometimes disagree.

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  9. Virgile says:

    Erdogan has caught the ‘megalomania’ disease after years of successfully managing the economy of the country. His time is over. He is only destroying what he has built because he is drugged by power. Saddam Hossein and the Shah of Iran had caught the same disease…

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  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Erdogan is a hero to the sheep just as much as
    Trump is. Besides, this lil’ piece explained how Erdogan “could be a better guy” if he backed off the imperialism programs.

    Read More
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  11. Altai says:

    A Gülenists-led military coup was launched in July 2016, with the tacit support of the US military stationed in Turkey. This was foiled by a major popular mobilization with the support of the armed forces.

    Is this accepted as the full story? It seemed more like a contingent of the military wanted to do a traditional coup but were either deceived into thinking there was more support in order to create an easily defeated coup to justify Erdogan’s purges or panicked and hoped support would materialise once in operation.

    It’s accepted that many of the soliders deployed did not know they were even a part of a coup, it seemed almost a perfect false flag.

    Dramatic enough to capture the attention of the entire world but weak enough for it to be beaten back live on international television and justify a major purge.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    I already used my 'agree', but you are making good points.
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  12. @OCGOKTAS
    As a regular Turkish person living in Turkey, I can say that this author needs stop writing anything about Turkey. Simply he does not understand anything about her. And so shameless and without any virtue to admits the coup was a Gulen plot with ties to the US military/CIA. Even the stupid understands that the coup was a US military/CIA plot with ties to the Gulen. Do you know what crimes is considered the ultimate, supreme, most evil crime under international law? It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression. US is probably the ultimate double standard untrustworthy nation in this world throughout modern history. Believe me as Muslim person I am not saying this with a hatred to regular American People and for their culture of which I have only great sympathy. However, the same people especially in this side of the world let -Americas Wars Driven By Jews- to say it simple. The best thing which could happen to this country and its people would be get rid of this shameless politicians or writers. A few last words to the Author, ERDOGAN over the last 14 years has made mistakes but he has also made many many good things for his people. And to most of his people, he is a very righteous and trustworthy person. Nevertheless, what the heck we know.

    When trying to find who did what in things like this the first question must be ‘who benefits ?’.
    It seems obvious that it is Erdogan.
    For me he thus is the prime suspect in the coup show.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OCGOKTAS
    But Erdogan was the total beneficiary before the coup. But the coup put even his life in danger. After the failed coup, it is the time of payback.
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  13. kemerd says:
    @OCGOKTAS
    As a regular Turkish person living in Turkey, I can say that this author needs stop writing anything about Turkey. Simply he does not understand anything about her. And so shameless and without any virtue to admits the coup was a Gulen plot with ties to the US military/CIA. Even the stupid understands that the coup was a US military/CIA plot with ties to the Gulen. Do you know what crimes is considered the ultimate, supreme, most evil crime under international law? It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression. US is probably the ultimate double standard untrustworthy nation in this world throughout modern history. Believe me as Muslim person I am not saying this with a hatred to regular American People and for their culture of which I have only great sympathy. However, the same people especially in this side of the world let -Americas Wars Driven By Jews- to say it simple. The best thing which could happen to this country and its people would be get rid of this shameless politicians or writers. A few last words to the Author, ERDOGAN over the last 14 years has made mistakes but he has also made many many good things for his people. And to most of his people, he is a very righteous and trustworthy person. Nevertheless, what the heck we know.

    Nevertheless, what the heck we know.

    You, indeed, don’t know what you are talking about. Or, perhaps, you are one of those notorious professional trolls in Erdogan’s payroll.

    In fact, Mr. Petras is remarkably well-informed about Turkish internal politics for a foreigner (except that there were no popular mobilization against the coup, the military itself stopped the plotters, perhaps as a last minute change of heart. Nobody actually knows what really happened)

    K.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OCGOKTSS
    LOL. Mr.Petras remarkably well informed about Turkish internal policy. You made my stomach go cramping from laughing. Thanks.
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  14. @Michael Kenny
    A point about the EU. Erdogan was elected on a pledge to withdraw Turkey's EU application. That suited everybody inasmuch as the EU has never wanted Turkey as a member and its application was always seen as a US ploy to undermine the European cultural identity of the EU and turn it into a mere free trade area. Faced with threats of a coup from the pro-US military, Erdogan backed off but now, in the aftermath of the failed coup, both Erdogan and EU leaders have found the excuse they were looking for to break off accession negotiations. Turkey's existing association agreement is very beneficial to Turkey, so abandoning the idea of accession does no damage to either side. European politicians are like American TV wrestlers. They prance about in front of the TV cameras pretending to fight, call each other nasty names and pretend to hate eich other but the whole thing is just an elaborate dance (and everybody in Europe knows that!). They're actually the best of friends!

    … the EU has never wanted Turkey as a member and its application was always seen as a US ploy to undermine the European cultural identity of the EU and turn it into a mere free trade area.

    I keep promising myself that I’m going to stop wasting my time by replying to Michael Kenny’s inane rants, but then he goes and posts a humdinger like this!

    FYI, Mr. Kenny: there is no shared European culture for the US or anyone else to undermine! Centuries ago, before the Reformation, there was Christendom. But that’s long gone now. All that’s left are national cultures: German, French, Italian, Lithuanian, Luxemburgish, etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @in the middle
    Exactly. Well, some one finally realized that yes, there is a European culture. Wars, and colonialism seems to be an European common culture! Besides that, well, nothing else!
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  15. FWIW, I agree with most of Petras’ analysis here, except for this:

    This led to a bloody US-backed military coup led by General Abdel Sisi in July 2013 – a lesson not lost on Erdoğan.

    Doesn’t Petras realize that the ‘Arab Spring’ in Egypt was no less a Washington/Tel-Aviv plot than the one in Syria? Doesn’t he remember the fawning coverage in the MSM of all those protests in Tahrir Square, where fresh-faced college kids were tweeting anti-Mubarak slogans? Isn’t he aware of Washington’s warm embrace–not only of Mohammed Morsi personally–but of the Muslim Brotherhood generally? Doesn’t he remember the MSM going on and on about the glories of ‘Islamic democracy’ (you know, just like Turkey several years ago)? Doesn’t he recall Morsi denouncing Iran–the big, bad Persian boogeyman? And what about Morsi’s support for the fake ‘rebels’ in Syria? Has Petras forgotten all of that?

    The Egyptian Army’s extreme displeasure with our interference in the internal affairs of what was once a very loyal ally (Egypt) also nicely explains why Gen. Sisi has cooled noticeably toward Washington, while upgrading relations with Russia and China, and even floating the possibility of intervening in Syria on the side of the government: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20161124-egyptian-military-helping-assad-forces/

    I don’t see how Sisi’s a pawn of Washington at all.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OCGOKTAS
    You can not be for real. Egypt is a bought country so is Sisi
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  16. gT says:

    This is a rather light weight article about Turkey. Turkey as a NATO member is crucial for NATO’s objectives in the Middle East. There are too few Jews in Israel, too few Arabs in Saudi Arabia and Jordan and too few Kurd’s for the US and NATO’s plan’s to succeed in the ME. They really need those 80 million plus Turks on their side. But with the unsuccessful CIA sponsored coup in Turkey NATO is now on the back foot in the ME. If the US loses control of the oil in the ME the dollar and by extension the USA is finished.

    So, if there is no WW3, then Turkey would have decided the outcome of the dispute between the unipolar and multipolar groupings.

    But never trust a Turk, Erdogan could make another 180 degree swing in the future again and save the US / NATO / Israel from irrelevance.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Haven't you noticed the changes in the oil market and the geo-political consequences of the rise of fracking in the US?
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  17. @Neddal
    Erdogan's genus seems to be his continued ability to maintain the sheep's disguise throughout the varying permutations of power configurations that have unfolded across Turkey since his coming unto the scene. Judging from the list of accomplishments enumerated here and elsewhere, he clearly has proven himself to be extremely effective as the head of US/NATO's fifth column in Turkey. He managed to transform the entirety of its political and cultural landscape away from the secular, nationalistic, and strongly independent, left-oriented trajectory it had been embarked on prior to his insertion into power. Externally, he acted in exactly the manner needed to advance US/NATO/Israel plans for fracturing the region ahead of breaking it apart into variegated motley of smaller, weaker, and feuding proto-, pseudo- ,or dysfunctional states that are defined along ethnic and sectarian lines with deep-rooted, nearly irreconcilable differences. So, this wolf, likely a Gray one, appears to have been, and remains, quite the win, from the "right" perspective.

    [F]racturing the region ahead of breaking it apart into variegated motley of smaller, weaker, and feuding proto-, pseudo- ,or dysfunctional states that are defined along ethnic and sectarian lines with deep-rooted, nearly irreconcilable differences.

    A strategy that is succinctly termed as Africanisation.

    -

    The article mentions the “American empire”. The notion of the “American” empire evokes the same chuckles as Forbe’s list of “Richest people”.

    Mr. Petras, can we please call a spade — “Anglo-Zionist” empire — by its proper name? I’m not being merely pedantic here. The correct name allows for a wider historic view of the subject matter, and does not introduce and induce analytical errors. It also reassures your readers that you are not Yet Another Propagandist (YAP).

    Read More
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  18. Che Guava says:

    Petras never replies to commemters here.

    Will just say, he is not to knowing much on this. neither do others spouting off, nor I.

    Q. How does anyone know that the coup attempt was not by Kemalists?

    A. They don’t, but it is convenient to follow the Erdogan narrative.

    Considering that participating naval officers sought refuge in Greece, other factors, it is not as simple as presented.

    For now, I am to stay with my initial impression, that it was mainly a self-coup or set-up by Erdoggy. As Jilles was saying, cui bono?

    Read More
    • Replies: @OCGOKTAS
    It was a US-CIA plotted Gulen run Coup trial...You did not see they were preparing for it since 2013. It is only that most people thought that they would not dare. And US knew all along.
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  19. Che Guava says:
    @Altai

    A Gülenists-led military coup was launched in July 2016, with the tacit support of the US military stationed in Turkey. This was foiled by a major popular mobilization with the support of the armed forces.
     
    Is this accepted as the full story? It seemed more like a contingent of the military wanted to do a traditional coup but were either deceived into thinking there was more support in order to create an easily defeated coup to justify Erdogan's purges or panicked and hoped support would materialise once in operation.

    It's accepted that many of the soliders deployed did not know they were even a part of a coup, it seemed almost a perfect false flag.

    Dramatic enough to capture the attention of the entire world but weak enough for it to be beaten back live on international television and justify a major purge.

    I already used my ‘agree’, but you are making good points.

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  20. Che Guava says:
    @FB
    An excellent, although rather succinct summary of the shortcomings of the conniver Erdogan...

    But Erdo is also dangerous...and must be handled with care...

    The fact that nobody trusts him is also an advantage...you can never be sure what zig or zag he will make...

    In Syria he was the main conduit for the foreign mercenary/terrorist invasion from the start...he and his acolytes profited handsomely from ISIS oil trucked into Turkey...[all while the US was supposedly air-striking ISIS in Syria since 2014, but somehow didn't notice the 1,200 tanker trucks winding their way to the Turkish border...]

    When Russia stepped in to defend Syria against what everyone by now recognizes as a foreign-orchestrated terrorist invasion for regime change [to the sole benefit of a certain squatter nation in the Levant]...he first made the mistake of directly drawing Russian blood...[again one can only speculate who might have been whispering in his ear to do that...]

    But it didn't take him long to spring back into shape when he realized that that ear-whisperer [whoever that might be..cough...cough] had played him for a sucker...

    Post coup attempt...here's our Erdo cap in hand at the Kremlin...and, after heartfelt apologies for the downed airman to his 'friend' Putin, he insinuated his way into the Astana peace process as one of three 'guarantors'...

    And hot on the heels of Putin's reciprocal visit to Ankara to cement this beautiful new friendship...Erdo launched his invasion of the northern part of Aleppo province under the Euphrates Shield 'anti-terror' operation...

    Now it is being reported that that children starting school are learning Turkish...Turkish post offices, hospitals etc are also popping up...

    'Don't worry,' Erdo says '...We don’t have a wish to occupy these lands but we want the rightful owners to go back there...'

    Whoever those 'rightful owners' might be we can only guess...but the government of UN member state Syria is not amused and has now demanded that Turkey withdraw its occupation forces from the country...

    Oh...and Erdogan's troops have now entered the terrorist-held Idlib province...as part of the Astana de-escalation agreement...Reuters tells us...

    Curiously...

    'The convoy was escorted by fighters from Tahrir al-Sham, an alliance of jihadist groups including the former al Qaeda affiliate previously known as the Nusra Front...'
     
    So it seems that in spite of all his many shortcomings and 'mistakes'...Mr. Erdo is still causing people everywhere to tear their hair out...

    It is dangerous to underestimate a small carnivore like a fox or a jackal...what they lack in size they make up for in sheer cunning and audacity...

    Good post!

    Read More
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  21. As an off topic asside, isn’t it amazing that instead of discussing “what Xi said”, we’re discussing the tired end of the bi-polar axis of Anglo-Zionist Empire, instead of its resurrgent dragon end.

    There can be no valid analysis (of any geopolitical subject of import) until the question mark of the true aims and alignment of Chinese Communist Party and China is answered. Is Xi being honest when discussing “Chinese realities” or is that an excuse for the unexcusable?

    To clarify, if Xi is an honest man, then we can view the induced chaos and Africanisation program for the region as a mechanism to contain China. That would render all the actors in the region as just that: actors on a stage.

    If he is not (which implies the Communist Party of China has been compromised) there remains the (in my opinion high) probability that we are captive audiance of a power struggle between the Anglo-Zionist Families across “the pond”. Per this analysis, the US families that willy nilly ended up taking over the British Empire (because of two devestating European Imperial wars aka “World Wars”) are being kicked out of the Levant. Or let’s put it another way: when Petrodollar is laid to rest, does the Petroyuan regime mean that the City of London will also be dispossessed and fleeced like the American sheep or will they continue to mysteriously thrive as they have done for the past few centuries?

    Regardless, for us little people, Chairman Xi articulated the glorious Technocratic future for humanity. Little room for “inalienable rights” but the Chairman promises solid technocratic input and Jack Ma was there to assure us that Big Co. really cares for us and our education and future. Oh, happiness.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    the glorious Technocratic future for humanity
     
    Nerds of the world - rejoice! The future is yours!!!
    https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/676018825/Frink1.gif

    Peace.
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  22. FKA Max says: • Website
    @jilles dykstra
    I always am impressed by those who know what a psychopath thinks.

    I agree. He is a textbook psychopath, in my opinion. And I believe his ambitions and designs are global, not just regional.

    An “it’s my way or the highway” type of attitude and approach.
    [...]
    For the record, I personally don’t believe that Angela Merkel is a psychopath, but I am pretty sure Erdogan is:

    President Erdogan is no stranger to blackmailing the EU. He has previously used migrants as a ‘loaded gun’ with which to threaten European leaders. The message is clear: do what I say, or I’ll open the floodgates.

    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-genetics-of-genius/#comment-1933523

    Without Erdogan flooding Europe with Syrian War refugees and ISIS fighters, etc., I don’t think Trump would have been elected president or BREXIT would have happened.

    A few years ago George Friedman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Friedman predicted World War 3 would take place between Turkey (Sunni Islam) and Poland (Catholic Christianity).

    I tended to dismiss this scenario and idea, but not so much anymore.

    In the following video he talks mostly about a military confrontation between these two powers/civilizations, and I don’t completely dismiss the possibility of such a scenario, but I actually believe that World War 3 is not going to primarily be a military confrontation, but instead a demographic war waged by means of (illegal) (im)migration, fertility rates, etc.

    George Friedman Predicts World War 3 Between Turkey and Poland

    [MORE]

    Smithsonian Magazine
    Published on Jul 19, 2010
    Looking at the future of geopolitics, the author reveals the surprising results of his research

    The main battle of the Clash of Civilizations will be fought between Sunni Islam led by Turkey and Catholic Christianity led by the Vatican, in my opinion.

    The main battlefield is continental Europe, plus the “Holy Land”, but the U.S. is also affected, because in order for the Vatican to diplomatically and militarily support its satellites like Poland, it needs to control the U.S. and the rest of the Anglosphere, which are traditionally Protestant nations, who are usually not terribly interested in continental European affairs. The Vatican is trying to achieve this goal in the U.S. and the rest of the Anglosphere, like Turkey is trying to achieve it in Europe, through demographic warfare, e.g., (im)migration and higher birth rates, etc.:

    Erdogan calls on Turkish families in Europe to have five children to protect against ‘injustices’ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/erdogan-calls-turkish-families-have-five-children-bulwark-against/

    Do you think this is just a coincidence and accident that Britain is being “Catholizied” through open borders?

    Poles are now largest foreign-born contingent in Britain as migration grows

    [...]
    Polish involvement in the 2003 invasion of Iraq – Wikipedia

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-killing-of-history/#comment-2021523

    Poland Becomes Global Player After Backing U.S. in Iraq War

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB105233629065309800

    I personally believe, after much research, that the biggest threat to the sovereignty of the United States comes from the Vatican/Roman Catholicism, whereas the biggest threat to Europe comes from Mecca/Islam.

    The Jewish influence I see mostly as an intellectual/ideological challenge, but the Vatican and Mecca threats are demographic threats, and as they say, Demography is Destiny, and therefore I consider them to be greater, long-term threats than the Jewish control of the media, Wall Street, etc., which I see as more of a temporary, short-term challenge.

    http://www.unz.com/article/rule-or-ruin/#comment-1624652

    More significantly, the British Protestant percentage has declined to about 20%, making it smaller than Catholics.http://theconversation.com/census-2016-shows-australias-changing-religious-profile-with-more-nones-than-catholics-79837

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

    Ok, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but I believe this is the true battle going on. It is much bigger than just Erdogan, the U.S., etc.

    I believe Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations” model is very prescient:

    Source: https://blogs.harvard.edu/mesh/2008/01/clashing_civilizations_revisited/

    The the only flaw I see with it is the following:

    he, for example, does not distinguish between Protestant and Catholic culture within Western Civilization,

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979

    George Friedman and Ambassador Matthew Bryza on Turkey

    Geopolitical Futures
    Published on Apr 20, 2017

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max
    Poland Challenges the European Identity | George Friedman Interview

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T7CHQPYbxs

    Geopolitical Futures
    Published on Sep 28, 2017

    Excerpt from transcript:

    03:48
    well the Catholic Church still plays a prominent role in public life in Poland today obviously the EU is is a completely secular organization in terms of how it looks at the world how is that tension how is that going to be resolved because obviously that does play into what's happening here with this Muslim migration as well well the -- EU's view of religion is that it's a private matter everyone is welcome to practice whatever religion they want but it cannot enter the public sphere in Poland the Catholic Church played a pivotal role in the fall of communism the Polish Church provided much of the energy much of the organization much of the money that helped solidarity push the Soviets back against the wall so we are in a situation where the poles see the Catholic Church as an integral part of their society and on the other side of the equation the EU is very uncomfortable that it's just another part of the very different view of the world
    04:51
     
    In early October 2017 a huge prayer event was held in Poland:

    Thousands Form Human Chain Around Poland, Pray Rosary “To Save the World”

    https://churchpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/poland-mary-700x438.jpg

    Source: https://churchpop.com/2017/10/07/thousands-form-human-chain-around-poland-pray-rosary-to-save-the-world/

    I noted the following last year:

    The E.U. is majority Catholic after BREXIT, so the chances, that it could turn truly fascist/authoritarian, now are higher than they were before, in my opinion
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/non-white-migrants-and-the-catholic-church/#comment-1870992

    The rise of far-right parties in Europe, caused by the ”refugee crisis”, etc., is not a bad thing for the Vatican; read my comment for more details here: http://www.unz.com/plee/trump-we-wish-the-problem-was-fascism/#comment-1618786
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/trump-vs-the-real-nuts-the-gop-uniparty-establishment/#comment-1630654

    I think the prayer actions we are seeing in Poland are the beginning of this transformation of the E.U. from a secular institution into a more religious/Roman Catholic institution.

    The EU should have never expanded eastward. The 2004 enlargement was a massive mistake
    [...]
    They should have stopped the expansion after the 1995 enlargement
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/collateral-damage/#comment-1961280

    https://churchpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/traditional-religions-700x569.png

    Source: https://churchpop.com/2014/10/09/10-maps-religion-europe/
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  23. @Seamus Padraig

    ... the EU has never wanted Turkey as a member and its application was always seen as a US ploy to undermine the European cultural identity of the EU and turn it into a mere free trade area.
     
    I keep promising myself that I'm going to stop wasting my time by replying to Michael Kenny's inane rants, but then he goes and posts a humdinger like this!

    FYI, Mr. Kenny: there is no shared European culture for the US or anyone else to undermine! Centuries ago, before the Reformation, there was Christendom. But that's long gone now. All that's left are national cultures: German, French, Italian, Lithuanian, Luxemburgish, etc.

    Exactly. Well, some one finally realized that yes, there is a European culture. Wars, and colonialism seems to be an European common culture! Besides that, well, nothing else!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    "Colonialism" sounds just silly in 2017. Maybe in 1900 when you would also have had to put Chtistianity pretty high on your list as eell ss the Enlightenment tradition...
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  24. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max
    I agree. He is a textbook psychopath, in my opinion. And I believe his ambitions and designs are global, not just regional.

    An “it’s my way or the highway” type of attitude and approach.
    [...]
    For the record, I personally don’t believe that Angela Merkel is a psychopath, but I am pretty sure Erdogan is:

    President Erdogan is no stranger to blackmailing the EU. He has previously used migrants as a ‘loaded gun’ with which to threaten European leaders. The message is clear: do what I say, or I’ll open the floodgates.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jthompson/the-genetics-of-genius/#comment-1933523

    Without Erdogan flooding Europe with Syrian War refugees and ISIS fighters, etc., I don't think Trump would have been elected president or BREXIT would have happened.

    A few years ago George Friedman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Friedman predicted World War 3 would take place between Turkey (Sunni Islam) and Poland (Catholic Christianity).

    I tended to dismiss this scenario and idea, but not so much anymore.

    In the following video he talks mostly about a military confrontation between these two powers/civilizations, and I don't completely dismiss the possibility of such a scenario, but I actually believe that World War 3 is not going to primarily be a military confrontation, but instead a demographic war waged by means of (illegal) (im)migration, fertility rates, etc.

    George Friedman Predicts World War 3 Between Turkey and Poland

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtykfyU9CqI

    Smithsonian Magazine
    Published on Jul 19, 2010
    Looking at the future of geopolitics, the author reveals the surprising results of his research


    The main battle of the Clash of Civilizations will be fought between Sunni Islam led by Turkey and Catholic Christianity led by the Vatican, in my opinion.

    The main battlefield is continental Europe, plus the ``Holy Land'', but the U.S. is also affected, because in order for the Vatican to diplomatically and militarily support its satellites like Poland, it needs to control the U.S. and the rest of the Anglosphere, which are traditionally Protestant nations, who are usually not terribly interested in continental European affairs. The Vatican is trying to achieve this goal in the U.S. and the rest of the Anglosphere, like Turkey is trying to achieve it in Europe, through demographic warfare, e.g., (im)migration and higher birth rates, etc.:

    Erdogan calls on Turkish families in Europe to have five children to protect against 'injustices' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/erdogan-calls-turkish-families-have-five-children-bulwark-against/

    Do you think this is just a coincidence and accident that Britain is being “Catholizied” through open borders?

    Poles are now largest foreign-born contingent in Britain as migration grows

    [...]
    Polish involvement in the 2003 invasion of Iraq – Wikipedia
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/the-killing-of-history/#comment-2021523

    Poland Becomes Global Player After Backing U.S. in Iraq War

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB105233629065309800

    I personally believe, after much research, that the biggest threat to the sovereignty of the United States comes from the Vatican/Roman Catholicism, whereas the biggest threat to Europe comes from Mecca/Islam.

    The Jewish influence I see mostly as an intellectual/ideological challenge, but the Vatican and Mecca threats are demographic threats, and as they say, Demography is Destiny, and therefore I consider them to be greater, long-term threats than the Jewish control of the media, Wall Street, etc., which I see as more of a temporary, short-term challenge.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/rule-or-ruin/#comment-1624652

    More significantly, the British Protestant percentage has declined to about 20%, making it smaller than Catholics. - http://theconversation.com/census-2016-shows-australias-changing-religious-profile-with-more-nones-than-catholics-79837

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Distribution_of_Catholics.png/550px-Distribution_of_Catholics.png

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

    Ok, I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but I believe this is the true battle going on. It is much bigger than just Erdogan, the U.S., etc.

    I believe Huntington's ``Clash of Civilizations'' model is very prescient:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Huntington_Clash_of_Civilizations_chart.gif/300px-Huntington_Clash_of_Civilizations_chart.gif

    Source: https://blogs.harvard.edu/mesh/2008/01/clashing_civilizations_revisited/

    The the only flaw I see with it is the following:

    he, for example, does not distinguish between Protestant and Catholic culture within Western Civilization,
     
    - http://www.unz.com/isteve/reforming-stuyvesant-hs-admissions-should-blacks-whites-team-up-against-asian-grinds/#comment-1810979

    George Friedman and Ambassador Matthew Bryza on Turkey

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiG2gI05HE4

    Geopolitical Futures
    Published on Apr 20, 2017

    Poland Challenges the European Identity | George Friedman Interview

    Geopolitical Futures
    Published on Sep 28, 2017

    Excerpt from transcript:

    [MORE]

    03:48
    well the Catholic Church still plays a prominent role in public life in Poland today obviously the EU is is a completely secular organization in terms of how it looks at the world how is that tension how is that going to be resolved because obviously that does play into what’s happening here with this Muslim migration as well well the — EU’s view of religion is that it’s a private matter everyone is welcome to practice whatever religion they want but it cannot enter the public sphere in Poland the Catholic Church played a pivotal role in the fall of communism the Polish Church provided much of the energy much of the organization much of the money that helped solidarity push the Soviets back against the wall so we are in a situation where the poles see the Catholic Church as an integral part of their society and on the other side of the equation the EU is very uncomfortable that it’s just another part of the very different view of the world
    04:51

    In early October 2017 a huge prayer event was held in Poland:

    Thousands Form Human Chain Around Poland, Pray Rosary “To Save the World”

    Source: https://churchpop.com/2017/10/07/thousands-form-human-chain-around-poland-pray-rosary-to-save-the-world/

    I noted the following last year:

    The E.U. is majority Catholic after BREXIT, so the chances, that it could turn truly fascist/authoritarian, now are higher than they were before, in my opinion

    http://www.unz.com/article/non-white-migrants-and-the-catholic-church/#comment-1870992

    The rise of far-right parties in Europe, caused by the ”refugee crisis”, etc., is not a bad thing for the Vatican; read my comment for more details here: http://www.unz.com/plee/trump-we-wish-the-problem-was-fascism/#comment-1618786

    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/trump-vs-the-real-nuts-the-gop-uniparty-establishment/#comment-1630654

    I think the prayer actions we are seeing in Poland are the beginning of this transformation of the E.U. from a secular institution into a more religious/Roman Catholic institution.

    The EU should have never expanded eastward. The 2004 enlargement was a massive mistake
    [...]
    They should have stopped the expansion after the 1995 enlargement

    http://www.unz.com/article/collateral-damage/#comment-1961280

    Source: https://churchpop.com/2014/10/09/10-maps-religion-europe/

    Read More
    • Replies: @FKA Max

    I think the prayer actions we are seeing in Poland are the beginning of this transformation of the E.U. from a secular institution into a more religious/Roman Catholic institution.
     
    What is basically emerging is the European Union Otto von Habsburg envisioned:

    The European Constitution and Christianity

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZDgkDcBuqE

    His Imperial Highness, Archduke Dr. Otto von Habsburg on the European Constitution and Christianity: "There should be a reference to god, not to religion" - an exclusive WSN Interview


    An early advocate of a unified Europe, Otto was president of the International Paneuropean Union from 1973 to 2004.[47] He served from 1979 until 1999 as a Member of the European Parliament for the conservative Christian Social Union of Bavaria (CSU) party, eventually becoming the senior member of the European Parliament. He was also a member of the Mont Pelerin Society.[48] He was a major supporter of the expansion of the European Union from the beginning and especially of the acceptance of Hungary, Slovenia and Croatia. During his time in the European Parliament, he was involved in a fracas with fellow MEP Ian Paisley, a unionist Protestant pastor from Northern Ireland. In 1988, Pope John Paul II had just begun a speech to the Parliament when Paisley, a vehement anti-Catholic, shouted that the Pope was the Antichrist, and held up a poster reading "Pope John Paul II Antichrist". Otto snatched Paisley's banner and, along with other MEPs, ejected him from the chamber.[49]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg#Political_career

    Ian Paisley Heckles the Pope (1988)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4

    Broadcast (New Zealand): 12th October, 1988. Ian Paisley heckles Pope John Paul II at the European Parliament, Strasbourg.

    This was von Habsburg's position on Turkey:

    Q: What are your thoughts on Turkey's desire to join the European Union, and what would such membership entail for the process of deepening and widening the Union?

    A: Concerning Turkey I feel that Turkey should not become a member of the European Union in the latter's present condition. One should try to establish close relations but we should not forget that Turkey faces a major task with respect to the current global order. It has for some time been regarded as the leader in the Mashrek (note: the Muslim Near East as contrast to the Maghreb in the "West": The Editors). Given the latter's current problems such as the situation in Palestine or in Iraq, not to speak of Afghanistan and the Islamic countries of the Caucasus, Turkey needs to demonstrate leadership skills. That it is capable to do so is best shown by the fact that Turkey has been outstanding in its development aid for the countries which have been liberated from the Russian occupation.

    If we did not take this approach the enlargement of the Union would not be feasible. The Union should be limited to its area between the borders of Russia and the borders of the Mashrek and Turkey. In the meantime, one should become more flexible.
     

    - https://www.upi.com/Q-and-A-Otto-von-Habsburg-on-EU-security/16961130186640/

    Turkey no longer needs EU membership but won't quit talks - Erdogan


    German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in an election debate last month it was clear Turkey should not join the EU and entry talks should end, despite it being a crucial NATO ally.
     
    - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-turkey/turkey-no-longer-needs-eu-membership-but-wont-quit-talks-erdogan-idUSKCN1C61CL.

    This development will help slow the ``Islamization'' of Europe, but it will make the European Union more authoritarian, militaristic and less technocratic, further weaken the secular forces in Turkey, which will make a confrontation, military or otherwise, between Sunni Islam (Turkey, et al. ) and Catholic Christianity (Vatican, Poland, et al.), much more likely, in my opinion.

    Like I said above, I used to dismiss, and even laugh off George Friedman's prediction. I am not laughing so much anymore:

    Turkish President Recep tayyip Erdogan The Islamist leader & The Rise of Turkey

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4fAuG_9IeE

    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan Turkey declares protecting al-Aqsa its mission


    As Larry Diamond has put it, many of the new regimes are “electoral democracies” but not “liberal democracies.” Citing Diamond’s distinction, Huntington has argued that the introduction of elections in non-Western societies may often lead to victory by antiliberal forces.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-lobby-british-style/#comment-2049572

    One hopeful sign for Europe is that more people are becoming religiously unaffiliated in that region, which could ease religious tensions:

    Europe projected to retain its Christian majority, but religious minorities will grow

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/15/europe-projected-to-retain-its-christian-majority-but-religious-minorities-will-grow/

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2015/04/147.png

    But there is a global caveat:

    Why Muslims Are Rising Fastest and the Unaffiliated Are Shrinking as a Share of the World’s Population


    Similarly, the religiously unaffiliated population is projected to shrink as a percentage of the global population, even though it will increase in absolute number.
     
    - http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
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  25. Cato says:
    @OCGOKTAS
    As a regular Turkish person living in Turkey, I can say that this author needs stop writing anything about Turkey. Simply he does not understand anything about her. And so shameless and without any virtue to admits the coup was a Gulen plot with ties to the US military/CIA. Even the stupid understands that the coup was a US military/CIA plot with ties to the Gulen. Do you know what crimes is considered the ultimate, supreme, most evil crime under international law? It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression. US is probably the ultimate double standard untrustworthy nation in this world throughout modern history. Believe me as Muslim person I am not saying this with a hatred to regular American People and for their culture of which I have only great sympathy. However, the same people especially in this side of the world let -Americas Wars Driven By Jews- to say it simple. The best thing which could happen to this country and its people would be get rid of this shameless politicians or writers. A few last words to the Author, ERDOGAN over the last 14 years has made mistakes but he has also made many many good things for his people. And to most of his people, he is a very righteous and trustworthy person. Nevertheless, what the heck we know.

    You are right, of course: Gulen is a CIA asset. But take a look at the kind of response your truth gets, even from the free-thinking people at unz.com. As I write this, I see three responses: a diverse selection that includes an Armenian hater of Turks, an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and a fool so delusional as to deny even the Shoah. It will be a long time before Americans become sophisticated enough to understand how their policies have provoked the rest of the world.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {.... a diverse selection that includes an Armenian hater of Turks, }

    A diverse selection of denialist apologists for nomad Turk savages.
    Apologists for child rapist, child murdering nomad Turk savages.
    CatoTürkoğlu.
    , @OCGOKTAS
    Well said
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  26. Avery says:
    @Cato
    You are right, of course: Gulen is a CIA asset. But take a look at the kind of response your truth gets, even from the free-thinking people at unz.com. As I write this, I see three responses: a diverse selection that includes an Armenian hater of Turks, an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and a fool so delusional as to deny even the Shoah. It will be a long time before Americans become sophisticated enough to understand how their policies have provoked the rest of the world.

    {…. a diverse selection that includes an Armenian hater of Turks, }

    A diverse selection of denialist apologists for nomad Turk savages.
    Apologists for child rapist, child murdering nomad Turk savages.
    CatoTürkoğlu.

    Read More
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  27. @in the middle
    Exactly. Well, some one finally realized that yes, there is a European culture. Wars, and colonialism seems to be an European common culture! Besides that, well, nothing else!

    “Colonialism” sounds just silly in 2017. Maybe in 1900 when you would also have had to put Chtistianity pretty high on your list as eell ss the Enlightenment tradition…

    Read More
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  28. @gT
    This is a rather light weight article about Turkey. Turkey as a NATO member is crucial for NATO's objectives in the Middle East. There are too few Jews in Israel, too few Arabs in Saudi Arabia and Jordan and too few Kurd’s for the US and NATO’s plan’s to succeed in the ME. They really need those 80 million plus Turks on their side. But with the unsuccessful CIA sponsored coup in Turkey NATO is now on the back foot in the ME. If the US loses control of the oil in the ME the dollar and by extension the USA is finished.

    So, if there is no WW3, then Turkey would have decided the outcome of the dispute between the unipolar and multipolar groupings.

    But never trust a Turk, Erdogan could make another 180 degree swing in the future again and save the US / NATO / Israel from irrelevance.

    Haven’t you noticed the changes in the oil market and the geo-political consequences of the rise of fracking in the US?

    Read More
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  29. Florin N. says:

    read this, James

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html

    Erdogan largely faced off against a branch of Global Jewry.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Very interesting, thanks.
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  30. OCGOKTSS says:
    @kemerd

    Nevertheless, what the heck we know.
     
    You, indeed, don't know what you are talking about. Or, perhaps, you are one of those notorious professional trolls in Erdogan's payroll.

    In fact, Mr. Petras is remarkably well-informed about Turkish internal politics for a foreigner (except that there were no popular mobilization against the coup, the military itself stopped the plotters, perhaps as a last minute change of heart. Nobody actually knows what really happened)

    K.

    LOL. Mr.Petras remarkably well informed about Turkish internal policy. You made my stomach go cramping from laughing. Thanks.

    Read More
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  31. OCGOKTAS says:
    @Avery
    {It is not genocide, or crimes against humanity. The ultimate crime is the crime of aggression}

    Not genocide?
    Of course not: you are a Turk; genocide comes naturally to you UygurTürkoğlar, so it's not a crime.
    The ultimate crime is supposedly aggression? And US is the one?
    OK: let's play along and see.

    - Turkish military has invaded Syria, and is currently occupying Syrian territory.
    - Turkey has invaded Iraq several times over the years.
    - Turkey invaded the sovereign state of Cyprus, and is still occupying ~40% of it.

    Turkey is a criminal, genocidal, IslamoFascist state, that is a foreign organism in Asia Minor and a menace to the entire region. US has done a lot bad things, but a Turk ragging on America is rich.
    Your nomad ancestors from Uyguristan are the ultimate aggressors: invading, burning, pillaging, destroying, looting, murdering, massacring, raping, stealing murdered Christians' children,.....
    A plague.

    At least America has given the world and humanity multitudes of wonderful things that enrich the lives of people. What have you savage nomad Turks given humanity other than death, destruction - and genocide.


    {.... he is a very righteous and trustworthy person}

    -Erdogan's men organized two deadly bombings of peaceful Kurdish gatherings a couple of years ago, killing and maiming hundreds of young Kurds.
    -Turkish MIT in collaboration with ISIS organized the chemical attack of Ghouta, Syria, in 2013.
    Hundreds of civilians and children were killed. Turkish cops even stopped some of the trucks carrying chemicals to ISIS, without knowing it was a MIT operation.
    -Erdogan's son was involved in years long trade of stolen Syrian oil in collaboration with ISIS.


    The whole Erdogan family is corrupt, from top to bottom.

    Your hatred blinds your eyes. Turkey have no intention of invading Syria or Iraq. Since thosr people are our forever neigbors. Bu also totally ready to fight againist plans of making up states by US and others.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Turkey have no intention of invading Syria or Iraq}

    Apparently 'intention' has a different meaning to a nomad Turk.
    In fact Turkey has invaded* Syria and its armed forces are illegally camped on Syrian soil.

    [Turkish forces set up positions in Syria's Idlib](OCTOBER 12, 2017)
    {Turkey sent a convoy of about 30 military vehicles into rebel-held northwest Syria through the Bab al-Hawa crossing in Idlib, rebels and a witness said.}
    {Video distributed by the Turkish army showed what it said was the convoy starting to move on Thursday night, with military vehicles traveling along a road in darkness.}

    Not only Turks have invaded Syria, but they are proceeding in their traditional invadonomad custom of Turkifying what they have stolen**.

    [In schools and hospitals, Turkey carves north Syria role](OCTOBER 12, 2017 )
    {Children returning to school in the northern Syrian city of al-Bab were handed a new textbook this term: “Türkçe Öğreniyorum” - “I am learning Turkish”.}


    _____________
    *
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/turkish-forces-set-up-positions-in-syrias-idlib-idUSKBN1CI0KW

    **
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/in-schools-and-hospitals-turkey-carves-north-syria-role-idUSKBN1CH2A5
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  32. OCGOKTAS says:
    @jilles dykstra
    When trying to find who did what in things like this the first question must be 'who benefits ?'.
    It seems obvious that it is Erdogan.
    For me he thus is the prime suspect in the coup show.

    But Erdogan was the total beneficiary before the coup. But the coup put even his life in danger. After the failed coup, it is the time of payback.

    Read More
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  33. FKA Max says: • Website
    @FKA Max
    Poland Challenges the European Identity | George Friedman Interview

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T7CHQPYbxs

    Geopolitical Futures
    Published on Sep 28, 2017

    Excerpt from transcript:

    03:48
    well the Catholic Church still plays a prominent role in public life in Poland today obviously the EU is is a completely secular organization in terms of how it looks at the world how is that tension how is that going to be resolved because obviously that does play into what's happening here with this Muslim migration as well well the -- EU's view of religion is that it's a private matter everyone is welcome to practice whatever religion they want but it cannot enter the public sphere in Poland the Catholic Church played a pivotal role in the fall of communism the Polish Church provided much of the energy much of the organization much of the money that helped solidarity push the Soviets back against the wall so we are in a situation where the poles see the Catholic Church as an integral part of their society and on the other side of the equation the EU is very uncomfortable that it's just another part of the very different view of the world
    04:51
     
    In early October 2017 a huge prayer event was held in Poland:

    Thousands Form Human Chain Around Poland, Pray Rosary “To Save the World”

    https://churchpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/poland-mary-700x438.jpg

    Source: https://churchpop.com/2017/10/07/thousands-form-human-chain-around-poland-pray-rosary-to-save-the-world/

    I noted the following last year:

    The E.U. is majority Catholic after BREXIT, so the chances, that it could turn truly fascist/authoritarian, now are higher than they were before, in my opinion
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/non-white-migrants-and-the-catholic-church/#comment-1870992

    The rise of far-right parties in Europe, caused by the ”refugee crisis”, etc., is not a bad thing for the Vatican; read my comment for more details here: http://www.unz.com/plee/trump-we-wish-the-problem-was-fascism/#comment-1618786
     
    - http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/trump-vs-the-real-nuts-the-gop-uniparty-establishment/#comment-1630654

    I think the prayer actions we are seeing in Poland are the beginning of this transformation of the E.U. from a secular institution into a more religious/Roman Catholic institution.

    The EU should have never expanded eastward. The 2004 enlargement was a massive mistake
    [...]
    They should have stopped the expansion after the 1995 enlargement
     
    - http://www.unz.com/article/collateral-damage/#comment-1961280

    https://churchpop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/traditional-religions-700x569.png

    Source: https://churchpop.com/2014/10/09/10-maps-religion-europe/

    I think the prayer actions we are seeing in Poland are the beginning of this transformation of the E.U. from a secular institution into a more religious/Roman Catholic institution.

    What is basically emerging is the European Union Otto von Habsburg envisioned:

    The European Constitution and Christianity

    His Imperial Highness, Archduke Dr. Otto von Habsburg on the European Constitution and Christianity: “There should be a reference to god, not to religion” – an exclusive WSN Interview

    An early advocate of a unified Europe, Otto was president of the International Paneuropean Union from 1973 to 2004.[47] He served from 1979 until 1999 as a Member of the European Parliament for the conservative Christian Social Union of Bavaria (CSU) party, eventually becoming the senior member of the European Parliament. He was also a member of the Mont Pelerin Society.[48] He was a major supporter of the expansion of the European Union from the beginning and especially of the acceptance of Hungary, Slovenia and Croatia. During his time in the European Parliament, he was involved in a fracas with fellow MEP Ian Paisley, a unionist Protestant pastor from Northern Ireland. In 1988, Pope John Paul II had just begun a speech to the Parliament when Paisley, a vehement anti-Catholic, shouted that the Pope was the Antichrist, and held up a poster reading “Pope John Paul II Antichrist”. Otto snatched Paisley’s banner and, along with other MEPs, ejected him from the chamber.[49]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg#Political_career

    Ian Paisley Heckles the Pope (1988)

    Broadcast (New Zealand): 12th October, 1988. Ian Paisley heckles Pope John Paul II at the European Parliament, Strasbourg.

    This was von Habsburg’s position on Turkey:

    Q: What are your thoughts on Turkey’s desire to join the European Union, and what would such membership entail for the process of deepening and widening the Union?

    A: Concerning Turkey I feel that Turkey should not become a member of the European Union in the latter’s present condition. One should try to establish close relations but we should not forget that Turkey faces a major task with respect to the current global order. It has for some time been regarded as the leader in the Mashrek (note: the Muslim Near East as contrast to the Maghreb in the “West”: The Editors). Given the latter’s current problems such as the situation in Palestine or in Iraq, not to speak of Afghanistan and the Islamic countries of the Caucasus, Turkey needs to demonstrate leadership skills. That it is capable to do so is best shown by the fact that Turkey has been outstanding in its development aid for the countries which have been liberated from the Russian occupation.

    If we did not take this approach the enlargement of the Union would not be feasible. The Union should be limited to its area between the borders of Russia and the borders of the Mashrek and Turkey. In the meantime, one should become more flexible.

    https://www.upi.com/Q-and-A-Otto-von-Habsburg-on-EU-security/16961130186640/

    Turkey no longer needs EU membership but won’t quit talks – Erdogan

    German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in an election debate last month it was clear Turkey should not join the EU and entry talks should end, despite it being a crucial NATO ally.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-turkey/turkey-no-longer-needs-eu-membership-but-wont-quit-talks-erdogan-idUSKCN1C61CL.

    This development will help slow the “Islamization” of Europe, but it will make the European Union more authoritarian, militaristic and less technocratic, further weaken the secular forces in Turkey, which will make a confrontation, military or otherwise, between Sunni Islam (Turkey, et al. ) and Catholic Christianity (Vatican, Poland, et al.), much more likely, in my opinion.

    Like I said above, I used to dismiss, and even laugh off George Friedman’s prediction. I am not laughing so much anymore:

    Turkish President Recep tayyip Erdogan The Islamist leader & The Rise of Turkey

    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan Turkey declares protecting al-Aqsa its mission

    As Larry Diamond has put it, many of the new regimes are “electoral democracies” but not “liberal democracies.” Citing Diamond’s distinction, Huntington has argued that the introduction of elections in non-Western societies may often lead to victory by antiliberal forces.

    http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-lobby-british-style/#comment-2049572

    One hopeful sign for Europe is that more people are becoming religiously unaffiliated in that region, which could ease religious tensions:

    Europe projected to retain its Christian majority, but religious minorities will grow

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/15/europe-projected-to-retain-its-christian-majority-but-religious-minorities-will-grow/

    But there is a global caveat:

    Why Muslims Are Rising Fastest and the Unaffiliated Are Shrinking as a Share of the World’s Population

    Similarly, the religiously unaffiliated population is projected to shrink as a percentage of the global population, even though it will increase in absolute number.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Turkey no longer needs EU membership
     
    Jeez - it's about time! Stop coming to Europe with hat in hand man, it's humiliating.

    but won’t quit talks
     
    C'mon Turkey, stop wasting everybody's time. Europe doesn't want you - time to turn Eastward and South. Work on fixing things with Iran, then see if you can get Egypt and Pakistan to shift away from the Saudis. Let's do this right people...

    Peace.

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  34. OCGOKTAS says:
    @Che Guava
    Petras never replies to commemters here.

    Will just say, he is not to knowing much on this. neither do others spouting off, nor I.

    Q. How does anyone know that the coup attempt was not by Kemalists?

    A. They don't, but it is convenient to follow the Erdogan narrative.

    Considering that participating naval officers sought refuge in Greece, other factors, it is not as simple as presented.

    For now, I am to stay with my initial impression, that it was mainly a self-coup or set-up by Erdoggy. As Jilles was saying, cui bono?

    It was a US-CIA plotted Gulen run Coup trial…You did not see they were preparing for it since 2013. It is only that most people thought that they would not dare. And US knew all along.

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  35. OCGOKTAS says:
    @Seamus Padraig
    FWIW, I agree with most of Petras' analysis here, except for this:

    This led to a bloody US-backed military coup led by General Abdel Sisi in July 2013 – a lesson not lost on Erdoğan.
     
    Doesn't Petras realize that the 'Arab Spring' in Egypt was no less a Washington/Tel-Aviv plot than the one in Syria? Doesn't he remember the fawning coverage in the MSM of all those protests in Tahrir Square, where fresh-faced college kids were tweeting anti-Mubarak slogans? Isn't he aware of Washington's warm embrace--not only of Mohammed Morsi personally--but of the Muslim Brotherhood generally? Doesn't he remember the MSM going on and on about the glories of 'Islamic democracy' (you know, just like Turkey several years ago)? Doesn't he recall Morsi denouncing Iran--the big, bad Persian boogeyman? And what about Morsi's support for the fake 'rebels' in Syria? Has Petras forgotten all of that?

    The Egyptian Army's extreme displeasure with our interference in the internal affairs of what was once a very loyal ally (Egypt) also nicely explains why Gen. Sisi has cooled noticeably toward Washington, while upgrading relations with Russia and China, and even floating the possibility of intervening in Syria on the side of the government: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20161124-egyptian-military-helping-assad-forces/

    I don't see how Sisi's a pawn of Washington at all.

    You can not be for real. Egypt is a bought country so is Sisi

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  36. OCGOKTAS says:
    @Cato
    You are right, of course: Gulen is a CIA asset. But take a look at the kind of response your truth gets, even from the free-thinking people at unz.com. As I write this, I see three responses: a diverse selection that includes an Armenian hater of Turks, an example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and a fool so delusional as to deny even the Shoah. It will be a long time before Americans become sophisticated enough to understand how their policies have provoked the rest of the world.

    Well said

    Read More
    • Agree: Zumbuddi
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  37. Avery says:
    @OCGOKTAS
    Your hatred blinds your eyes. Turkey have no intention of invading Syria or Iraq. Since thosr people are our forever neigbors. Bu also totally ready to fight againist plans of making up states by US and others.

    {Turkey have no intention of invading Syria or Iraq}

    Apparently ‘intention’ has a different meaning to a nomad Turk.
    In fact Turkey has invaded* Syria and its armed forces are illegally camped on Syrian soil.

    [Turkish forces set up positions in Syria's Idlib](OCTOBER 12, 2017)
    {Turkey sent a convoy of about 30 military vehicles into rebel-held northwest Syria through the Bab al-Hawa crossing in Idlib, rebels and a witness said.}
    {Video distributed by the Turkish army showed what it said was the convoy starting to move on Thursday night, with military vehicles traveling along a road in darkness.}

    Not only Turks have invaded Syria, but they are proceeding in their traditional invadonomad custom of Turkifying what they have stolen**.

    [In schools and hospitals, Turkey carves north Syria role](OCTOBER 12, 2017 )
    {Children returning to school in the northern Syrian city of al-Bab were handed a new textbook this term: “Türkçe Öğreniyorum” – “I am learning Turkish”.}

    _____________
    *

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/turkish-forces-set-up-positions-in-syrias-idlib-idUSKBN1CI0KW

    **

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey/in-schools-and-hospitals-turkey-carves-north-syria-role-idUSKBN1CH2A5

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  38. Talha says:
    @survey-of-disinfo
    As an off topic asside, isn't it amazing that instead of discussing "what Xi said", we're discussing the tired end of the bi-polar axis of Anglo-Zionist Empire, instead of its resurrgent dragon end.

    There can be no valid analysis (of any geopolitical subject of import) until the question mark of the true aims and alignment of Chinese Communist Party and China is answered. Is Xi being honest when discussing "Chinese realities" or is that an excuse for the unexcusable?

    To clarify, if Xi is an honest man, then we can view the induced chaos and Africanisation program for the region as a mechanism to contain China. That would render all the actors in the region as just that: actors on a stage.

    If he is not (which implies the Communist Party of China has been compromised) there remains the (in my opinion high) probability that we are captive audiance of a power struggle between the Anglo-Zionist Families across "the pond". Per this analysis, the US families that willy nilly ended up taking over the British Empire (because of two devestating European Imperial wars aka "World Wars") are being kicked out of the Levant. Or let's put it another way: when Petrodollar is laid to rest, does the Petroyuan regime mean that the City of London will also be dispossessed and fleeced like the American sheep or will they continue to mysteriously thrive as they have done for the past few centuries?

    Regardless, for us little people, Chairman Xi articulated the glorious Technocratic future for humanity. Little room for "inalienable rights" but the Chairman promises solid technocratic input and Jack Ma was there to assure us that Big Co. really cares for us and our education and future. Oh, happiness.

    the glorious Technocratic future for humanity

    Nerds of the world – rejoice! The future is yours!!!

    Peace.

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  39. Talha says:
    @FKA Max

    I think the prayer actions we are seeing in Poland are the beginning of this transformation of the E.U. from a secular institution into a more religious/Roman Catholic institution.
     
    What is basically emerging is the European Union Otto von Habsburg envisioned:

    The European Constitution and Christianity

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZDgkDcBuqE

    His Imperial Highness, Archduke Dr. Otto von Habsburg on the European Constitution and Christianity: "There should be a reference to god, not to religion" - an exclusive WSN Interview


    An early advocate of a unified Europe, Otto was president of the International Paneuropean Union from 1973 to 2004.[47] He served from 1979 until 1999 as a Member of the European Parliament for the conservative Christian Social Union of Bavaria (CSU) party, eventually becoming the senior member of the European Parliament. He was also a member of the Mont Pelerin Society.[48] He was a major supporter of the expansion of the European Union from the beginning and especially of the acceptance of Hungary, Slovenia and Croatia. During his time in the European Parliament, he was involved in a fracas with fellow MEP Ian Paisley, a unionist Protestant pastor from Northern Ireland. In 1988, Pope John Paul II had just begun a speech to the Parliament when Paisley, a vehement anti-Catholic, shouted that the Pope was the Antichrist, and held up a poster reading "Pope John Paul II Antichrist". Otto snatched Paisley's banner and, along with other MEPs, ejected him from the chamber.[49]
     
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg#Political_career

    Ian Paisley Heckles the Pope (1988)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlbmIMbKZa4

    Broadcast (New Zealand): 12th October, 1988. Ian Paisley heckles Pope John Paul II at the European Parliament, Strasbourg.

    This was von Habsburg's position on Turkey:

    Q: What are your thoughts on Turkey's desire to join the European Union, and what would such membership entail for the process of deepening and widening the Union?

    A: Concerning Turkey I feel that Turkey should not become a member of the European Union in the latter's present condition. One should try to establish close relations but we should not forget that Turkey faces a major task with respect to the current global order. It has for some time been regarded as the leader in the Mashrek (note: the Muslim Near East as contrast to the Maghreb in the "West": The Editors). Given the latter's current problems such as the situation in Palestine or in Iraq, not to speak of Afghanistan and the Islamic countries of the Caucasus, Turkey needs to demonstrate leadership skills. That it is capable to do so is best shown by the fact that Turkey has been outstanding in its development aid for the countries which have been liberated from the Russian occupation.

    If we did not take this approach the enlargement of the Union would not be feasible. The Union should be limited to its area between the borders of Russia and the borders of the Mashrek and Turkey. In the meantime, one should become more flexible.
     

    - https://www.upi.com/Q-and-A-Otto-von-Habsburg-on-EU-security/16961130186640/

    Turkey no longer needs EU membership but won't quit talks - Erdogan


    German Chancellor Angela Merkel said in an election debate last month it was clear Turkey should not join the EU and entry talks should end, despite it being a crucial NATO ally.
     
    - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-turkey/turkey-no-longer-needs-eu-membership-but-wont-quit-talks-erdogan-idUSKCN1C61CL.

    This development will help slow the ``Islamization'' of Europe, but it will make the European Union more authoritarian, militaristic and less technocratic, further weaken the secular forces in Turkey, which will make a confrontation, military or otherwise, between Sunni Islam (Turkey, et al. ) and Catholic Christianity (Vatican, Poland, et al.), much more likely, in my opinion.

    Like I said above, I used to dismiss, and even laugh off George Friedman's prediction. I am not laughing so much anymore:

    Turkish President Recep tayyip Erdogan The Islamist leader & The Rise of Turkey

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4fAuG_9IeE

    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan Turkey declares protecting al-Aqsa its mission


    As Larry Diamond has put it, many of the new regimes are “electoral democracies” but not “liberal democracies.” Citing Diamond’s distinction, Huntington has argued that the introduction of elections in non-Western societies may often lead to victory by antiliberal forces.
     
    - http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-lobby-british-style/#comment-2049572

    One hopeful sign for Europe is that more people are becoming religiously unaffiliated in that region, which could ease religious tensions:

    Europe projected to retain its Christian majority, but religious minorities will grow

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/15/europe-projected-to-retain-its-christian-majority-but-religious-minorities-will-grow/

    http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2015/04/147.png

    But there is a global caveat:

    Why Muslims Are Rising Fastest and the Unaffiliated Are Shrinking as a Share of the World’s Population


    Similarly, the religiously unaffiliated population is projected to shrink as a percentage of the global population, even though it will increase in absolute number.
     
    - http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

    Turkey no longer needs EU membership

    Jeez – it’s about time! Stop coming to Europe with hat in hand man, it’s humiliating.

    but won’t quit talks

    C’mon Turkey, stop wasting everybody’s time. Europe doesn’t want you – time to turn Eastward and South. Work on fixing things with Iran, then see if you can get Egypt and Pakistan to shift away from the Saudis. Let’s do this right people…

    Peace.

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  40. @Florin N.
    read this, James

    https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html

    Erdogan largely faced off against a branch of Global Jewry.

    Very interesting, thanks.

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