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Yes, African Immigrants Do Better Than American Blacks–But It Won’t Last
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adailymailstoryVDARE.com is an immigration-patriot i.e. restrictionist website. We’re also race realist: We accept that in a multiracial society, different races will inevitably, in the generality, precipitate out at different levels, in defiance of any social-engineering intervention not absolutely totalitarian.

Given all that, what do we think about black immigration? I raise the subject because there have been a couple of news stories recently on, or near, this topic.

Here’s an October 6th story from Lifezette.com:

Black immigrants, on average, earn more money and use less welfare than blacks born in the United States, raising doubts about the reach and impact of systemic racism

Outcomes for Black Immigrants Undercut Notion of Systemic Racism|Black newcomers find success, suggesting factors other than race hold back black Americans. By Brendan Kirby, October 9, 2016

This is a kick in the crotch to the jabber about “implicit bias” and “systemic racism” that we’ve been hearing from Mrs. Clinton and her Vice Presidential sidekick in recent speeches and debates. If “systemic racism” and “implicit bias” explain the under-performance of black Americans, why don’t they work their evil magic against black immigrants?

LifeZette’s Kirby continues with lots of statistics about how much better immigrant blacks do socially than American-born blacks. He quotes Steve Cam arota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, without bothering to tell readers, as media outlets normally do, that the Southern Poverty Law Center has tagged CIS as a hateful nest of hate-filled haters who favor the public stoning of illegal immigrants.

The Camarota quote pretty much gives the game away. Camarota notes that thirty percent of black immigrants have college degrees, compared with less than twenty percent of American-born blacks. In other words, we’re importing the smart ones.

Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.

So, no surprise they’re doing well. There are other things to be said, though.

One is “regression towards the mean.” Very smart people are sports of nature. Their kids will be smart too, since intelligence is partly heritable, but not as smart as their parents.

The overall effect is beneficial in the long run, as regression towards the mean fades with succeeding generations, leaving you with a sub-population —the descendants of these immigrants —overall smarter than the home population back in Africa. That’s how Natural Selection works! They just won’t be as smart as the original immigrants.

cityofspadesAnd then there’s chain migration. Johnny Fortune from Nigeria (the hero of British novel I read when it was published in the 1950s) may be an excellent fellow; but under our current, insane immigration rules he’ll be sponsoring numerous relatives for family-reunification visas, along with friends and acquaintances who have bribed easily-bribable Nigerian government clerks to provide fake documents “proving” they are related to Johnny. It’s statistically unlikely that any of these folk are as smart as Johnny.

And then of course there are the “refugee” rackets. We don’t give IQ tests to refugees. The bribery factor applies here even more so.

With refugees from Africa there are also health issues. Africa is the home of unpleasant diseases, and our refugee screening procedures seem not to be very good.

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Just this week we got news that an eight-year-old refugee boy from the Congo died shortly after landing at O’Hare airport in Chicago. The boy was sick prior to the flight, we are told, and suffered diarrhea and vomiting. The Centers for Disease Control got involved, but so far I haven’t seen a diagnosis in the news stories. [ 8-Year-Old Refugee Dies After Flight To O’Hare, By Suzanne Le Mignot , CBS, October 5, 2016]

And then there are African illegals. A visitor or student visa for the U.S.A. isn’t that hard to get; and once you’re in, you’re in. If you can’t get a U.S. visa, get one for some South or Central American country, and head north.

This is a fast-growing problem:

Just as Europe has experienced a surge of African migrants, Central American countries have experienced a sharp increase in African migrants in 2016 who see the United States as their final destination.

There’s Also An African Migrant Crisis On America’s Southern Border. Daily Caller, October 5, 2016

And, as I keep reminding you, the U.S.A. has already received its first load of African boat people.

africa

Surveying the world at large, it looks as though a good first cut for a sensible immigration policy into Western nations would be: no blacks, no Muslims.

The problem with that, in the case of the U.S.A., is the offense it would naturally give to our own black citizens.

I’m not sure how much offense that would be: I recall a couple of incidents —including one actual fist-fight —that suggest much resentment by American blacks towards black immigrants, who, as described in the article I opened with, leapfrog over native blacks into the middle and upper-middle class.

A ban on black immigrants might be seen as an implicit slight on the blackness of our black fellow Americans none the less. The best way around this would be a moratorium on all immigration from anywhere, which is what we’ve been arguing for at VDARE.com. Then no citizen has any reason to be offended by our immigration policy—plus we can get to work assimilating the tens of millions who have come in across recent decades.

A sidebar issue here, always worth a mention, is the enthusiasm that immigration fanatics apparently have for plundering the human capital of the Third World. Every one of those high-IQ blacks we’re taking in is one less high-IQ person in the source country, to help develop and improve that country.

The Left has been bellyaching for ever about how evil white Europeans stole natural resources from the nations they colonized. OK: If stealing natural resources is bad, why isn’t stealing human resources also bad, if not worse?

Personally I couldn’t care less what happens to Nigeria, Zimbabwe, or Haiti. But Goodwhites claim they do care—yet they seem to be fine with our accepting all the smart people from those places, depleting their already too-small stocks of high-quality human capital.

They’re hypocrites. You knew that, of course. But it’s always worth saying again.

clarencethomasWhich reminds me: Here’s one person you won’t find in the Museum of African American History and Culture, unless you look really hard: Clarence Thomas (right) our country’s second black Supreme Court justice —who, by the way, attains the 25th anniversary of his confirmation to the Court next week, October 15th.

Justice Thomas ought to be an ideal subject for a full-case display at the Museum. Descended from slaves, he was born into serious rural poverty in the Jim Crow South, made his way by diligent study to Yale Law School, then climbed up through state and federal attorney positions to the Supreme Court.

lonniebunch

He is also very black. I can testify to this, having met him once. Possibly that’s the reason for his exclusion from the museum, I don’t know. Institutions of this kind are usually brought to us and supervised by light-skinned blacks, or at darkest by mulattos like Barack Obama. (Pictured right, Museum Director Lonnie Bunch,) Perhaps Justice Thomas didn’t pass the Paper Bag Test, I don’t know.

Much more probably he’s been passed over for not toeing the CultMarx ideological line. Thomas is a conservative, whose lucid and well-written opinions have done nothing to advance the cause of tearing down the hateful edifice of white male capitalist oppression.

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At any rate, the Museum didn’t see him as a fit subject for a display. His name appears only once, in an exhibit featuring Anita Hill, the black feminist who tried to derail Thomas’s confirmation by the Senate Judiciary Committee. [African American Smithsonian Museum Snubs Justice Clarence Thomas, by Alex Swoyer, Breitbart.com, October 5, 2016]

Breitbart.com tells us that: “The museum didn’t return Breitbart News’s request for comment.”

What. A. Surprise.

No doubt they were too busy putting the finishing touches to the O.J. Simpson Room.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjectsfor all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He’s had two books published by VDARE.com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and From the Dissident Right II: Essays 2013. His writings are archived atJohnDerbyshire.com.

(Republished from VDare.com by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Africans, Blacks, Immigration, VDare Archives 
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  1. Jason Liu says:

    It’s not entirely up to IQ. Later generations of assimilated Asians are also not as high achieving as more recent Asian immigrants. Many are average and walk/talk like white people.

    It just happens faster to high achieving Africans because their children are more affected by activist culture, and thus more likely to get a degree in some worthless grievance study, thereby terminating their own “old world striver” advantage in one or two generations.

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    • Agree: Jeff77450
    • Replies: @stoptalkingtrash
    Really? So Jason, according to you it's a problem if Asians start 'walking and talking like whites.' your lack of English written skills and logic tell us the opposite. For example, it's a fact that Korean-Americans who migrated to the USA before the 1980s tended to integrate far more quickly and successfully, including the acquisition of better English language skills. Those successful and assimilated Koreans' children did just as well and even better.

    The later waves of Koreans (legal and illegal) to the USA tend to congregate in their own ethnic enclaves. It is not unusual in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to find the children and grandchildren of Korean immigrants have less than native English language skills despite being born in those countries and not in Korea.

    They blame their lack of professional success on white racism in those countries but the fact is that not integrating enough and staying in their Korean-speaking enclaves held them back.

    The same for Chinese people from different areas in the world. The most successful come from families who may have spoken the old lingo but also ensured their children and grandchildren were truly bi-lingual and encouraged integration.

    As can be observed in immigrant countries, Asians have done better when there were less of them as they needed to be part of the wider society to progress rather than hanging around in their Koreatowns and Chinatowns as they do now, comfortably re-creating the insularity that the pioneer Asians in immigrant societies left behind to a considerable extent.

    And as somebody with wide experience of East Asia, I don't buy into the 'high Asian IQ' mythos. South Korea (not North Korea) seems to have a disproportionate number of low IQ middle and older aged people in the regions outside Seoul. There is a simple minded staring, cackling and laughing at others who look different - not just non Koreans who are different.

    Children running into roads with traffic coming also is observable too many times - this while their families just watch as the darlings run near cars and other vehicles. Outside the two biggest cities, South Korea seems a throwback to Korean lack of progress and stagnant culture that was exploited so easily in the Japanese colonisation.

    Korean kids are given IQ tests from an early age in school so there is a familiarity with the format that other education systems elsewhere don't have. But there is too much stupidity on display in South Korea generally (so many examples that could be given of stubbornly refusing reason in favour of habit) for anyone who is not Korean and lives there, to go along with the 'high IQ' story.

    The People's Republic of China is also brimming with people but not with intelligence. That's another story.
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  2. Germany has had for years many well assimilated and cultured africans, and things are rapidly changing for probably the worst, as they, the newly arrived Africans are now tuned into the afroamerican mindset via MTV and thug rappers, and you can see them throughout the german landscape with ther pants hanging off of their butts and intimidating thug expressions on their faces. And before anyone tries to accuse me of harboring racist attitudes : I am a Jazz performer and I worship at the thrones of Charlie Parker and John Coltrane, aside from the fact that I shared an appartment witha black musician buddy for thirteen years. Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” member of forty-plus years.

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    • Replies: @Lawrence Fitton
    no racist, ye. but a smug, cultural ideologue, hater, perhaps.
    youthful music bothers you if it's not 'your kind'. youthful fashion offends your sensibilities(damn kids today!) mtv bothers you. apparently, it's the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers - and not the old fashion niggas who knew their place - that have your mensa molecules in a mind meltdown.
    well mr. jazzman, i'm a musician too. and i play jazz, and i play blues, and i play ragtime, and i play bach, and i play bluegrass. i don't hate, blacks, hillbillies, or germans.
    in fact, i appreciate the gifts to music offered by different cultures, as well as, the different eras from whence they sprang.
    i grew up with the hippie generation of the 60's. the old folk hated the young culture, then as now.
    remember this old saying? 'variety is the spice of life.'
    just in case you forgot.
  3. Truth says:

    Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.

    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?

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    • Replies: @res

    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?
     
    Sigh. It's really not that complicated.

    1. Everyone (or close enough to, for the nitpickers out there) wants to improve their lives.
    2. Smart people are better able to do so for a variety of reasons. For example, they tend to have more resources and are better able to navigate the migration process. IMHO they are also more likely to succeed in the US which adds incentive.
    3. 2. serves as an implicit IQ test for immigrants.
    4. Also, people from dysfunctional countries generally have more room to improve their lives by moving thus more incentive to do so.

    Hopefully you will either have an intelligent response or not feel the need to ask a 16th time.

    P.S. Do you disagree with anything specific that you quoted? If so, please specify what and provide an actual argument. The only thing I see which is not clearly factual is the description "crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries" and even for that I think it is hard to dispute that it is distressingly true more often than not.
    , @Anonymous
    "Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?"

    -You are looking at it entirely backwards. We shouldn't be looking at what they want, we should be looking at what is best for the US and it's citizens. Whether or not we would allow high IQ/talented immigrants, it's pretty obvious we have no need for more low IQ welfare vacuums who have 6 kids that serve as anchor babies for the rest of their African hillbilly clan to jump on in. Not to mention becoming a permanent drag on the country as dolt begets dolt ad infinitum. It's easy enough to screen potential immigrants for abilities, talent and intelligence. If it costs more to do it, then let them cough up more money in fees for the privilege of applying to come here. Whether they can pay or not can itself serve as a screen- those who can't tend to be those who lack the wherewithal to either save up or make a high enough living to cover it.
    , @Clyde
    The poster allegedly known as "Truth" doth protest too much. You don't want to live around the dumb and the criminally inclined. You don't want to have to associate with them at work any more than you have to. Would you marry one? Alleged "Truth" is the same as the white nationalists he takes potshots at.
  4. Truth says:

    It’s not entirely up to IQ. Later generations of assimilated Asians are also not as high achieving as more recent Asian immigrants. Many are average and walk/talk like white people.

    LOL; shots fired. Hey Jase, I agree it’s hard to watch your peoples dumbed down by intermingling with whites, but what are you going to do?

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  5. tamako says:

    Selection pressure drives part of this. You can look at Filipino migration to America, and see parallels – including the first wave driven by demand for plantation labor.

    Filipinos who do end up migrating today to the United States permanently are largely more secular, better-educated, and richer than their local counterparts.* And, thanks to Duterte, they’re also more “progressive.” Bonus! That brain drain has to have some benefit to us, at least.

    There’s regression to the mean, of course. The difference is that the Filipino middle class that drives migration to the United States, is already setting the Filipino language alight. I know from experience that most college students in the Philippines already struggle with speaking pure Tagalog off-the-cuff unless they’re basic statements. In other words, they tend to assimilate more quickly into wider American society because they’re already used to speaking the same (American) language.

    * – They also tend to have some Castillian/Chinese/White American blood in them. If they don’t, they have a high luck stat.

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  6. Marcus says:

    I wouldn’t mind some African immigrants, specifically the White former South Africans, Rhodesians, etc. great people.

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    • Agree: unit472
    • Replies: @Truth
    It's all good, they don't have kids, there won't be any in 6 generations anyway.
  7. “Surveying the world at large, it looks as though a good first cut for a sensible immigration policy into Western nations would be: no blacks, no Muslims.

    The problem with that, in the case of the U.S.A., is the offense it would naturally give to our own black citizens.”

    I would use rules which have the same effect without explicitly targeting blacks and muslims.
    By that way – at least theoretically, not practically – accusations of racism could be avoided. More importantly the real issued with blacks and muslims would be adressed. Those issues are in my opinion the stark asymmetries within non black/non-black and muslim/non-muslim relationship, which effectively lead to one-sided expansion.

    For Africans my simple rule would be:
    - nobody who has lived the first five years of his life in a country with a TFR which was at the time of her or his life was higher than 3.0 is allowed to immigrate

    For muslims some ideas:
    - the years share of hindu, buddhist, christian and muslim immigrants should be same, also only so many immigrants.
    - as long as”temples” of each other world religion are not allowed in the demographically most important three countries of one specific world religion, immigrants belonging to this specific world religion are not allowed
    - as long as members of one specific world religion kill members of other religions more often than the other way round with a ratio of at least 1.5/1 the members of this specific world religion are not allowed to immigrate
    - only as many muslim immigrants in the West/India/China/Russia etc. are allowed as non-muslims immigrate to muslim countries

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  8. Derb, there should probably be a moratorium on all immigration to North America and Europe — and particularly the latter. The population of both places now exceeds the carrying capacity of the land.

    But if we are allowing immigration based on merit (and not race), then your argument smacks of throwing the baby out with the bath water. If high-IQ Africans are making a contribution to the US, it’s rather churlish to lump them together with the refugees who are also accepted and those who sneak in illegally. Likewise for blaming them for inadequate screening and quarantine procedures at US ports of entry. It seems that your stance would penalise them by not allowing them entry by lumping them together with refugees and illegal migrants who share the same skin colour and area of origin.

    I agree with you about the brain drain part — it’s another negative aspect of the globalised world we inhabit. The third world is stripped of both its natural resources and human capital by the voracious maw of the oligarchic and neocolonialist first world.

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  9. joef says:

    Criticizing afro american behavior is not to dehumanize a race. Its to point out valid examples of destructive behavior that is occurring among a specific ethnic group, called afro americans; not a criticism of the Black race in general (afro americans being a mere subset of the Black Negro race).

    Its not so much about IQ and talents, because even if low, if a person chooses to maximize what they have (within their own personal limitations) in a ethical & lawful way, that is an overall good outcome. In addition immigrants on average are usually hard working risk takers, and that is also an overall good thing, as long as it is utilized in lawful ways.

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation. But the problem is the negative afro american influence upon their children, who will likely be afro americanized.

    Than there is the additional problem as this country continues on its long decline. As our economy deteriorates, with scarcity becoming the norm, and as afro american violent racial balkanization increases, all Blacks in this country will suffer from mistrust, from other groups, of anything Black.
    This will force them into the parasitical afro american camp by default, which will be the ruin of many functional productive Black immigrants.

    Libs believe that there is a mythological utopia of diversity being created. But what they are really creating is separation, because there is no agreement on any core cultural values. This was demonstrated by the Orlando shooting which caused great amount of cognitive dissidence among the libs. Their whole multicultural narrative what thrown is disarray, when a Muslim killed gays. According to our lib social warriors, the only politically correct target are White males (the productive class that afro american live off of).

    The multicultural myth will not stand up in our decline, and since we have not created a common culture to unify us, the groups will separate by mostly ethnic divisions. You are already seeing it in southern California, where the Mexican immigrant gangs are warring (and winning) against the afro american thugs.

    The leftist have turned afro americans into parasitical pets, and now expect the rest of us to foot the bill for it. If that is their version of utopia, of course I want no part of it, and have no vested interest in watching the system continue this way. So I do not really care if this unsustainable system collapse. Between two bad alternatives, I will take the one with a bit more freedom. History is full of collapses, and hardship was the norm for most human beings. And as this mess is being forced upon us by the meddling leftist, we may all come to know what real hardship is all about. Pray that I am wrong. (only good thing is the leftist will suffer from the Frankenstein monster that they created)

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    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    Total agreement, the one agonizing aspect of this pandemonia,for which there is , and probably never will be a solution or resolution being : Leftists are insane, and they control the most impacting elements of society, namely the education system, the media, and the judicial system, and the entertainment field, so conservatives , I really hate this fucking word : "conservative", which I would replace with the "common-sensers", or anything else , as it lends an unjustified "Fuddy-duddy" image to our viewpoint, and automatically turns off young "Modern, hip, possible adherents, so conservatives really are obliged to somehow "Modernize" their crusty image. Myself being a so-called "Artist" am confronted with leftist nutcases on a continual basis, and I have given up ever trying to convert or "enlighten" musician aquaintences regarding political viewpoints, as it is nothing but an gigantic exercise in futility. Regarding there leftist mania for "social justice" : They are ALL fucking liars and hypocrites, and racist to the core. I can vividly recall a revealing incident years ago, when I was gigging at US bases in Germany. I was conversing with a car salesman at an on-base US car dealership, he was a hard core democrat, and a Carter lover, and he was quite familiar with my political viewpoints. Anyway we standing in front of his office and a black GI walked by with a white lady, to which he instinctively blurted out : Gaddamn Nxxxxrs and white girls, and ,my reply was : hey wait a minute you guys ( Democrats) are supposedly the champions of the downtrodden victims of racial hatred, of course my remarks were to no avail, and I let the issue drop. I could go on for hours with this subject, its root cause being the fact that Karl Marx, instead of being declared as the true lunatic, which he was, was elavated by legions of other lunatics to the bizarre status of "Genius" and the "Social savior of mankind". In Germany, in every town of size there is a "Karl Marx " Strasse, even though the Germans are fully aware of the morbid results of his teachings, namely a hundred million murders. Imagine a George Wallace boulevard or a LH Oswald avenue in the USA. Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" member since 1973.
    , @Talha
    Hey joef,

    Criticizing afro american behavior is not to dehumanize a race. Its to point out valid examples of destructive behavior that is occurring among a specific ethnic group
     
    Check, check and check...

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation. But the problem is the negative afro american influence upon their children, who will likely be afro americanized.
     
    I know a wonderful Senegalese family with little children. We invited them over to our house once. My children have since then been amazed at how proper the English grammar is coming out of their 6 year old son. Of course, my friend thinks he will likely move back to Dakar in a couple of years - partially out of that same concern for his children's well-being.

    Peace.

    , @Pierrej

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation.
     
    This has been more or less my experience as well. Another thing that stands out to me about African immigrants is how much better they dress than American blacks. They seem to pay more attention to their appearance, even in their leisure time.

    However, I do have to wonder how prone to corruption they are. Several years ago I chatted with a guy from Sierra Leone for a couple of hours. He was a well educated, stocky guy in his mid 30's (although he looked older) who had ties to the Sierra Leone government prior to moving to the US in the early 2000's. I don't remember many of the details of the conversation, but what stuck out the most to me was how casually he described his own personal dealings with corrupt politicians/warlords in his home country. Some of the stuff he described sounded quite seedy, and of course it's impossible to know what details he decided to omit.

    Surveying the world at large, it looks as though a good first cut for a sensible immigration policy into Western nations would be: no blacks, no Muslims.
     
    Yes, this seems like a good idea to me as well.
  10. res says:
    @Truth

    Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.
     
    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?

    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?

    Sigh. It’s really not that complicated.

    1. Everyone (or close enough to, for the nitpickers out there) wants to improve their lives.
    2. Smart people are better able to do so for a variety of reasons. For example, they tend to have more resources and are better able to navigate the migration process. IMHO they are also more likely to succeed in the US which adds incentive.
    3. 2. serves as an implicit IQ test for immigrants.
    4. Also, people from dysfunctional countries generally have more room to improve their lives by moving thus more incentive to do so.

    Hopefully you will either have an intelligent response or not feel the need to ask a 16th time.

    P.S. Do you disagree with anything specific that you quoted? If so, please specify what and provide an actual argument. The only thing I see which is not clearly factual is the description “crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries” and even for that I think it is hard to dispute that it is distressingly true more often than not.

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    • Replies: @Erik Sieven
    if IQ would help that much for immigrating to western countries, than the same could be said about every other life situation, too. But if IQ would have large benefits for all life situations, it would rise without any constraints over the generations. So humans would have an average IQ of 100 but of, say, 10000 (when measured still on the regular scale). No, IQ does not help in each and every life situations, and if it does, than only a little bit. IQ is extremely helpful for doing science, engineering, learning languages etc.
    It is unrealistic to assume that immigrating is strongly selecting for IQ. Especially in poor, dysfunctional countries success in life does not depend on your own merit, but rather on luck, knowing the right people, being born in the right familiy etc.
    , @Truth
    Anti-Sigh;

    No.

    2) How are smart people better able to manipulate a Green card lottery held by the US, in Nigeria? Are smart people able to go back in time and select relatives who moved to the US before they were born? Because those are the two methods by which most foreigners get here.

    3) So it separates the 70 IQ people from the +2 SD, 82 IQ people who come to the US and become doctors and petroleum engineers?

    4) I'd like to see you drag Derbyshire back to England, I hope you've practiced your fighting skills.
  11. unit472 says:

    I’ve always been a bit suspicious about income statistics, even those compiled by the IRS, because our tax code is complex and people lie. Ironically low income people tend to lie and say they made more than they actually did while high income people do the opposite. There is also the issue of geography. Kentucky, Indiana or New Mexico are not going to be high on the list of states African immigrants are going to head to. Big cities OTOH are exactly the sort of place a Nigerian pharmacist or crook is going to want go to and wages are higher for the exact same work in New York or San Francisco than in Muncie, Indiana or Louisville, Kentucky

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  12. @joef
    Criticizing afro american behavior is not to dehumanize a race. Its to point out valid examples of destructive behavior that is occurring among a specific ethnic group, called afro americans; not a criticism of the Black race in general (afro americans being a mere subset of the Black Negro race).

    Its not so much about IQ and talents, because even if low, if a person chooses to maximize what they have (within their own personal limitations) in a ethical & lawful way, that is an overall good outcome. In addition immigrants on average are usually hard working risk takers, and that is also an overall good thing, as long as it is utilized in lawful ways.

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation. But the problem is the negative afro american influence upon their children, who will likely be afro americanized.

    Than there is the additional problem as this country continues on its long decline. As our economy deteriorates, with scarcity becoming the norm, and as afro american violent racial balkanization increases, all Blacks in this country will suffer from mistrust, from other groups, of anything Black.
    This will force them into the parasitical afro american camp by default, which will be the ruin of many functional productive Black immigrants.

    Libs believe that there is a mythological utopia of diversity being created. But what they are really creating is separation, because there is no agreement on any core cultural values. This was demonstrated by the Orlando shooting which caused great amount of cognitive dissidence among the libs. Their whole multicultural narrative what thrown is disarray, when a Muslim killed gays. According to our lib social warriors, the only politically correct target are White males (the productive class that afro american live off of).

    The multicultural myth will not stand up in our decline, and since we have not created a common culture to unify us, the groups will separate by mostly ethnic divisions. You are already seeing it in southern California, where the Mexican immigrant gangs are warring (and winning) against the afro american thugs.

    The leftist have turned afro americans into parasitical pets, and now expect the rest of us to foot the bill for it. If that is their version of utopia, of course I want no part of it, and have no vested interest in watching the system continue this way. So I do not really care if this unsustainable system collapse. Between two bad alternatives, I will take the one with a bit more freedom. History is full of collapses, and hardship was the norm for most human beings. And as this mess is being forced upon us by the meddling leftist, we may all come to know what real hardship is all about. Pray that I am wrong. (only good thing is the leftist will suffer from the Frankenstein monster that they created)

    Total agreement, the one agonizing aspect of this pandemonia,for which there is , and probably never will be a solution or resolution being : Leftists are insane, and they control the most impacting elements of society, namely the education system, the media, and the judicial system, and the entertainment field, so conservatives , I really hate this fucking word : “conservative”, which I would replace with the “common-sensers”, or anything else , as it lends an unjustified “Fuddy-duddy” image to our viewpoint, and automatically turns off young “Modern, hip, possible adherents, so conservatives really are obliged to somehow “Modernize” their crusty image. Myself being a so-called “Artist” am confronted with leftist nutcases on a continual basis, and I have given up ever trying to convert or “enlighten” musician aquaintences regarding political viewpoints, as it is nothing but an gigantic exercise in futility. Regarding there leftist mania for “social justice” : They are ALL fucking liars and hypocrites, and racist to the core. I can vividly recall a revealing incident years ago, when I was gigging at US bases in Germany. I was conversing with a car salesman at an on-base US car dealership, he was a hard core democrat, and a Carter lover, and he was quite familiar with my political viewpoints. Anyway we standing in front of his office and a black GI walked by with a white lady, to which he instinctively blurted out : Gaddamn Nxxxxrs and white girls, and ,my reply was : hey wait a minute you guys ( Democrats) are supposedly the champions of the downtrodden victims of racial hatred, of course my remarks were to no avail, and I let the issue drop. I could go on for hours with this subject, its root cause being the fact that Karl Marx, instead of being declared as the true lunatic, which he was, was elavated by legions of other lunatics to the bizarre status of “Genius” and the “Social savior of mankind”. In Germany, in every town of size there is a “Karl Marx ” Strasse, even though the Germans are fully aware of the morbid results of his teachings, namely a hundred million murders. Imagine a George Wallace boulevard or a LH Oswald avenue in the USA. Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” member since 1973.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joef
    Well while we are at it lets explore what our current country club Republicans have wrought upon us with their neocon corporatist policies. They gave away the manufacturing store through free trade for cheap labor. They claim that comparative advantage will offset it, but the labor participation rate, and our trade deficits indicate a very different story.

    And they seem to be exactly what Pres Eisenhower warned us about regarding a military industrial (congressional) complex. Instead of no foreign entanglements of Pres George Washington, we have all foreign entanglements of the neocons. Thus, with a destabilized Middle East and North Africa, we have our migrant crisis, and ISIS filling the vacuum of a past dictator (that probably should have been left in place to prevent the radicals from taking his place).
    Yes real traditionalist conservatism is truly dead (and traditions are usually a collective memory of what works best). There will be no more Reagans to rescue this country from itself.

    And now back to our mentally disordered leftist. They seem to be totally incapable of discerning consequences of cause and effect. Instead of exploring reality through empirical experiences, they obfuscate with academic studies. Instead of formulating opinions based on reality, they try to make reality conform to their own opinions.

    I truly believe that if it were not for modern protections, leftist would die off from natural selection; and this is due to the fact that the denial of reality is a very poor survival mechanism ('oh look there is a Saber tooth tiger, let me go and make friends with it and release it from its oppression' - - result: Saber tooth tiger gets an easy liberal happy meal).

  13. joef says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    Total agreement, the one agonizing aspect of this pandemonia,for which there is , and probably never will be a solution or resolution being : Leftists are insane, and they control the most impacting elements of society, namely the education system, the media, and the judicial system, and the entertainment field, so conservatives , I really hate this fucking word : "conservative", which I would replace with the "common-sensers", or anything else , as it lends an unjustified "Fuddy-duddy" image to our viewpoint, and automatically turns off young "Modern, hip, possible adherents, so conservatives really are obliged to somehow "Modernize" their crusty image. Myself being a so-called "Artist" am confronted with leftist nutcases on a continual basis, and I have given up ever trying to convert or "enlighten" musician aquaintences regarding political viewpoints, as it is nothing but an gigantic exercise in futility. Regarding there leftist mania for "social justice" : They are ALL fucking liars and hypocrites, and racist to the core. I can vividly recall a revealing incident years ago, when I was gigging at US bases in Germany. I was conversing with a car salesman at an on-base US car dealership, he was a hard core democrat, and a Carter lover, and he was quite familiar with my political viewpoints. Anyway we standing in front of his office and a black GI walked by with a white lady, to which he instinctively blurted out : Gaddamn Nxxxxrs and white girls, and ,my reply was : hey wait a minute you guys ( Democrats) are supposedly the champions of the downtrodden victims of racial hatred, of course my remarks were to no avail, and I let the issue drop. I could go on for hours with this subject, its root cause being the fact that Karl Marx, instead of being declared as the true lunatic, which he was, was elavated by legions of other lunatics to the bizarre status of "Genius" and the "Social savior of mankind". In Germany, in every town of size there is a "Karl Marx " Strasse, even though the Germans are fully aware of the morbid results of his teachings, namely a hundred million murders. Imagine a George Wallace boulevard or a LH Oswald avenue in the USA. Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" member since 1973.

    Well while we are at it lets explore what our current country club Republicans have wrought upon us with their neocon corporatist policies. They gave away the manufacturing store through free trade for cheap labor. They claim that comparative advantage will offset it, but the labor participation rate, and our trade deficits indicate a very different story.

    And they seem to be exactly what Pres Eisenhower warned us about regarding a military industrial (congressional) complex. Instead of no foreign entanglements of Pres George Washington, we have all foreign entanglements of the neocons. Thus, with a destabilized Middle East and North Africa, we have our migrant crisis, and ISIS filling the vacuum of a past dictator (that probably should have been left in place to prevent the radicals from taking his place).
    Yes real traditionalist conservatism is truly dead (and traditions are usually a collective memory of what works best). There will be no more Reagans to rescue this country from itself.

    And now back to our mentally disordered leftist. They seem to be totally incapable of discerning consequences of cause and effect. Instead of exploring reality through empirical experiences, they obfuscate with academic studies. Instead of formulating opinions based on reality, they try to make reality conform to their own opinions.

    I truly believe that if it were not for modern protections, leftist would die off from natural selection; and this is due to the fact that the denial of reality is a very poor survival mechanism (‘oh look there is a Saber tooth tiger, let me go and make friends with it and release it from its oppression’ – – result: Saber tooth tiger gets an easy liberal happy meal).

    Read More
  14. Talha says:
    @joef
    Criticizing afro american behavior is not to dehumanize a race. Its to point out valid examples of destructive behavior that is occurring among a specific ethnic group, called afro americans; not a criticism of the Black race in general (afro americans being a mere subset of the Black Negro race).

    Its not so much about IQ and talents, because even if low, if a person chooses to maximize what they have (within their own personal limitations) in a ethical & lawful way, that is an overall good outcome. In addition immigrants on average are usually hard working risk takers, and that is also an overall good thing, as long as it is utilized in lawful ways.

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation. But the problem is the negative afro american influence upon their children, who will likely be afro americanized.

    Than there is the additional problem as this country continues on its long decline. As our economy deteriorates, with scarcity becoming the norm, and as afro american violent racial balkanization increases, all Blacks in this country will suffer from mistrust, from other groups, of anything Black.
    This will force them into the parasitical afro american camp by default, which will be the ruin of many functional productive Black immigrants.

    Libs believe that there is a mythological utopia of diversity being created. But what they are really creating is separation, because there is no agreement on any core cultural values. This was demonstrated by the Orlando shooting which caused great amount of cognitive dissidence among the libs. Their whole multicultural narrative what thrown is disarray, when a Muslim killed gays. According to our lib social warriors, the only politically correct target are White males (the productive class that afro american live off of).

    The multicultural myth will not stand up in our decline, and since we have not created a common culture to unify us, the groups will separate by mostly ethnic divisions. You are already seeing it in southern California, where the Mexican immigrant gangs are warring (and winning) against the afro american thugs.

    The leftist have turned afro americans into parasitical pets, and now expect the rest of us to foot the bill for it. If that is their version of utopia, of course I want no part of it, and have no vested interest in watching the system continue this way. So I do not really care if this unsustainable system collapse. Between two bad alternatives, I will take the one with a bit more freedom. History is full of collapses, and hardship was the norm for most human beings. And as this mess is being forced upon us by the meddling leftist, we may all come to know what real hardship is all about. Pray that I am wrong. (only good thing is the leftist will suffer from the Frankenstein monster that they created)

    Hey joef,

    Criticizing afro american behavior is not to dehumanize a race. Its to point out valid examples of destructive behavior that is occurring among a specific ethnic group

    Check, check and check…

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation. But the problem is the negative afro american influence upon their children, who will likely be afro americanized.

    I know a wonderful Senegalese family with little children. We invited them over to our house once. My children have since then been amazed at how proper the English grammar is coming out of their 6 year old son. Of course, my friend thinks he will likely move back to Dakar in a couple of years – partially out of that same concern for his children’s well-being.

    Peace.

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  15. Except that no recent studies of African immigrants actually show regression to a low-achieving mean. I wonder if the Japanese-Americans regressed to the mean of Japan in the 1800s, when they were a lower income country.

    Just because Africa is developing after the BRICs, doesn’t mean it’s always going to have a low income. Remember when Americans used to donate to the starving children in China?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    http://themargins.net/anth/1930-1939/nash.html

    Japanese Americans were never thought to be poverty prone, and in the US white farmers could not compete with them, leading to laws against Japanese buying land

    You would have to postulate some kind of vulnerability in low performing groups and robust canalisation in those doing well, like this effort http://www.unz.com/article/towards-a-theory-of-everyone/

    The Hmong are not doing any better than one would expect, though they are from central China and as East Asian in DNA as any Chinese . As for Nigerians, endogamy and selection of the Osu caste through non-farming occupations such as trading would explain the intelligence of enterprising Nigerians (Osu usually claim to be Igbo).

    It is not about racial genralisation:


    http://www.molecularecologist.com/2015/02/bigger-on-the-inside/If you consider that the dimensions of the adaptive landscape are limited only by the dimensions in which living things vary, this logic suggests that there might actually be many paths between phenotypes that look like well-separated peaks when viewed in only two or three dimensions. You might also start to feel a sense of the overwhelming space of possibilities that natural selection sorts through. This is no longer a landscape that Charles Darwin can stroll across on a thoughtful afternoon; it needs more science fictional imagery, like the starship Enterprise warping space to cross light-years in a day, or the Doctor’s TARDIS sliding between geological epochs the way I might walk down the street for a cup of coffee. [...] That is, most of the time, a given metabolic reaction might be vital to the survival of a particular genotype, but somewhere out in the network there exist other genotypes that get along just fine without it. This is presumably because they include different sets of reactions that together achieve similar results. Wagner’s conclusion from these findings is that the tremendous range of possibility offered by a complex metabolism — or any other set of interacting organismal traits — gives evolution room to explore, to find new combinations of traits, and to innovate.
     
    Selection
    , @5371
    Funny that Africa goes backward when even the most hopeless parts of non-Africa go forward, then. Wouldn't you say?
  16. Sean says:
    @Chiquita LeStrange
    Except that no recent studies of African immigrants actually show regression to a low-achieving mean. I wonder if the Japanese-Americans regressed to the mean of Japan in the 1800s, when they were a lower income country.

    Just because Africa is developing after the BRICs, doesn't mean it's always going to have a low income. Remember when Americans used to donate to the starving children in China?

    http://themargins.net/anth/1930-1939/nash.html

    Japanese Americans were never thought to be poverty prone, and in the US white farmers could not compete with them, leading to laws against Japanese buying land

    You would have to postulate some kind of vulnerability in low performing groups and robust canalisation in those doing well, like this effort http://www.unz.com/article/towards-a-theory-of-everyone/

    The Hmong are not doing any better than one would expect, though they are from central China and as East Asian in DNA as any Chinese . As for Nigerians, endogamy and selection of the Osu caste through non-farming occupations such as trading would explain the intelligence of enterprising Nigerians (Osu usually claim to be Igbo).

    It is not about racial genralisation:

    http://www.molecularecologist.com/2015/02/bigger-on-the-inside/If you consider that the dimensions of the adaptive landscape are limited only by the dimensions in which living things vary, this logic suggests that there might actually be many paths between phenotypes that look like well-separated peaks when viewed in only two or three dimensions. You might also start to feel a sense of the overwhelming space of possibilities that natural selection sorts through. This is no longer a landscape that Charles Darwin can stroll across on a thoughtful afternoon; it needs more science fictional imagery, like the starship Enterprise warping space to cross light-years in a day, or the Doctor’s TARDIS sliding between geological epochs the way I might walk down the street for a cup of coffee. [...] That is, most of the time, a given metabolic reaction might be vital to the survival of a particular genotype, but somewhere out in the network there exist other genotypes that get along just fine without it. This is presumably because they include different sets of reactions that together achieve similar results. Wagner’s conclusion from these findings is that the tremendous range of possibility offered by a complex metabolism — or any other set of interacting organismal traits — gives evolution room to explore, to find new combinations of traits, and to innovate.

    Selection

    Read More
  17. @res

    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?
     
    Sigh. It's really not that complicated.

    1. Everyone (or close enough to, for the nitpickers out there) wants to improve their lives.
    2. Smart people are better able to do so for a variety of reasons. For example, they tend to have more resources and are better able to navigate the migration process. IMHO they are also more likely to succeed in the US which adds incentive.
    3. 2. serves as an implicit IQ test for immigrants.
    4. Also, people from dysfunctional countries generally have more room to improve their lives by moving thus more incentive to do so.

    Hopefully you will either have an intelligent response or not feel the need to ask a 16th time.

    P.S. Do you disagree with anything specific that you quoted? If so, please specify what and provide an actual argument. The only thing I see which is not clearly factual is the description "crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries" and even for that I think it is hard to dispute that it is distressingly true more often than not.

    if IQ would help that much for immigrating to western countries, than the same could be said about every other life situation, too. But if IQ would have large benefits for all life situations, it would rise without any constraints over the generations. So humans would have an average IQ of 100 but of, say, 10000 (when measured still on the regular scale). No, IQ does not help in each and every life situations, and if it does, than only a little bit. IQ is extremely helpful for doing science, engineering, learning languages etc.
    It is unrealistic to assume that immigrating is strongly selecting for IQ. Especially in poor, dysfunctional countries success in life does not depend on your own merit, but rather on luck, knowing the right people, being born in the right familiy etc.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    if IQ would help that much for immigrating to western countries, than the same could be said about every other life situation, too.
     
    Pretty much true IMHO.


    But if IQ would have large benefits for all life situations, it would rise without any constraints over the generations. So humans would have an average IQ of 100 but of, say, 10000 (when measured still on the regular scale).
     
    You left out a number of steps which you should include if you want anyone to take that argument seriously. Hint: IQ isn't the only variable here; there are others like width of the birth canal. Second hint: intelligence (a big brain) is metabolically expensive.


    No, IQ does not help in each and every life situations, and if it does, than only a little bit.
     
    Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


    IQ is extremely helpful for doing science, engineering, learning languages etc.
     
    Our primary disagreement seems to be on how inclusive that etc. should be.


    It is unrealistic to assume that immigrating is strongly selecting for IQ.
     
    Except when you compare the IQs of immigrants to the US to the averages of their home countries (e.g. for India or Africa). Do you disagree there is often a significant difference?

    Especially in poor, dysfunctional countries success in life does not depend on your own merit, but rather on luck, knowing the right people, being born in the right familiy etc.
     
    More true than most of us would like. I suspect IQ correlates with both knowing the right people and being born in the right family. It would be interesting to see an analysis of that. Probably "luck" too since that tends to involve 1. preparation 2. opportunity 3. execution, where I think there is a decent chance all three are correlated with IQ.
  18. 5371 says:
    @Chiquita LeStrange
    Except that no recent studies of African immigrants actually show regression to a low-achieving mean. I wonder if the Japanese-Americans regressed to the mean of Japan in the 1800s, when they were a lower income country.

    Just because Africa is developing after the BRICs, doesn't mean it's always going to have a low income. Remember when Americans used to donate to the starving children in China?

    Funny that Africa goes backward when even the most hopeless parts of non-Africa go forward, then. Wouldn’t you say?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen


    Misinformed as usual. A lot of sub Saharan Africa has had substantial economic growth recently. Africa the perpetual basket case was a Tony Blair era theme. Raw materials are off the boil but large chunks of the place were overheating anyway. Nigeria manages to achieve catastrophe despite advantages but most countries do better.
  19. Except that Africa isn’t going backwards.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You mean that with hundreds of billions of gift money precipitated upon them they still somehow and in part, where (forcefully: they think medicines and surgery are some scary form of sorcery, so they have to be coaxed into undergoing medical practices) helped by non-African medical personnel survive, right?

    Or you mean they have made some astonishing invention, like the next thing like the TV or Internet, and it has gone unmentioned in our hyper anti-black turbo-White-supremacistic media?
  20. Vasilis says:

    We all seem to presume that living in the United States from birth to adulthood is a dumbing down experience for all races, I wonder why.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neuday

    We all seem to presume that living in the United States from birth to adulthood is a dumbing down experience for all races, I wonder why.
     
    I think the cause is related to the semicolon shortage.
    , @Jeff77450
    Good point and the Flynn-effect argues otherwise.
  21. @5371
    Funny that Africa goes backward when even the most hopeless parts of non-Africa go forward, then. Wouldn't you say?

    Misinformed as usual. A lot of sub Saharan Africa has had substantial economic growth recently. Africa the perpetual basket case was a Tony Blair era theme. Raw materials are off the boil but large chunks of the place were overheating anyway. Nigeria manages to achieve catastrophe despite advantages but most countries do better.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    If I look at the World Bank data at http://databank.worldbank.org/data/reports.aspx?source=2&country=SSF
    I see distinctly underwhelming numbers for per capita GDP (in constant 2010 US$, not PPP AFAICT).
    1970 1336.5
    1980 1470.3
    1990 1254.3
    2000 1172.3
    2005 1356.5
    2010 1551.2
    2015 1652.0

    Good percentage increase from 2000 on, but starting from such a low base the absolute numbers are still very low. Here are numbers for all countries to give more perspective: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
    (note that these numbers are PPP which increases the $ value for low cost of living countries)
    , @5371
    Oh, it's Mr. Captain-Of-Industry again! If you keep company accounts to the same standard as African statistics, you're liable to find yourself relaxing in the clink.
  22. res says:
    @Erik Sieven
    if IQ would help that much for immigrating to western countries, than the same could be said about every other life situation, too. But if IQ would have large benefits for all life situations, it would rise without any constraints over the generations. So humans would have an average IQ of 100 but of, say, 10000 (when measured still on the regular scale). No, IQ does not help in each and every life situations, and if it does, than only a little bit. IQ is extremely helpful for doing science, engineering, learning languages etc.
    It is unrealistic to assume that immigrating is strongly selecting for IQ. Especially in poor, dysfunctional countries success in life does not depend on your own merit, but rather on luck, knowing the right people, being born in the right familiy etc.

    if IQ would help that much for immigrating to western countries, than the same could be said about every other life situation, too.

    Pretty much true IMHO.

    But if IQ would have large benefits for all life situations, it would rise without any constraints over the generations. So humans would have an average IQ of 100 but of, say, 10000 (when measured still on the regular scale).

    You left out a number of steps which you should include if you want anyone to take that argument seriously. Hint: IQ isn’t the only variable here; there are others like width of the birth canal. Second hint: intelligence (a big brain) is metabolically expensive.

    No, IQ does not help in each and every life situations, and if it does, than only a little bit.

    Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    IQ is extremely helpful for doing science, engineering, learning languages etc.

    Our primary disagreement seems to be on how inclusive that etc. should be.

    It is unrealistic to assume that immigrating is strongly selecting for IQ.

    Except when you compare the IQs of immigrants to the US to the averages of their home countries (e.g. for India or Africa). Do you disagree there is often a significant difference?

    Especially in poor, dysfunctional countries success in life does not depend on your own merit, but rather on luck, knowing the right people, being born in the right familiy etc.

    More true than most of us would like. I suspect IQ correlates with both knowing the right people and being born in the right family. It would be interesting to see an analysis of that. Probably “luck” too since that tends to involve 1. preparation 2. opportunity 3. execution, where I think there is a decent chance all three are correlated with IQ.

    Read More
  23. res says:
    @Philip Owen


    Misinformed as usual. A lot of sub Saharan Africa has had substantial economic growth recently. Africa the perpetual basket case was a Tony Blair era theme. Raw materials are off the boil but large chunks of the place were overheating anyway. Nigeria manages to achieve catastrophe despite advantages but most countries do better.

    If I look at the World Bank data at http://databank.worldbank.org/data/reports.aspx?source=2&country=SSF
    I see distinctly underwhelming numbers for per capita GDP (in constant 2010 US$, not PPP AFAICT).
    1970 1336.5
    1980 1470.3
    1990 1254.3
    2000 1172.3
    2005 1356.5
    2010 1551.2
    2015 1652.0

    Good percentage increase from 2000 on, but starting from such a low base the absolute numbers are still very low. Here are numbers for all countries to give more perspective: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
    (note that these numbers are PPP which increases the $ value for low cost of living countries)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    I will not deny that the starting point was low and that immediate post colonial performance was awful. But recent performance has been good, particularly total GDP and as you point out, not merely total but per capita at the same time despite large population growth and the impact of AIDS on the adult population of many countries. Impressive.
  24. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    “Black immigrants, on average, earn more money and use less welfare than blacks born in the United States, raising doubts about the reach and impact of systemic racism.”

    They also are more likely to be muslims, which carries with it it’s own negative baggage.

    In addition, they bring some of their lovely culture, like sweeping their floors into the hallway of their apartment complex instead of doing the sensible thing and using a dust pan like civilized people. Coupled with constantly propping the main building doors wide open all hours of the day and night, its a great recipe for a major pest problem.

    Read More
  25. @res
    If I look at the World Bank data at http://databank.worldbank.org/data/reports.aspx?source=2&country=SSF
    I see distinctly underwhelming numbers for per capita GDP (in constant 2010 US$, not PPP AFAICT).
    1970 1336.5
    1980 1470.3
    1990 1254.3
    2000 1172.3
    2005 1356.5
    2010 1551.2
    2015 1652.0

    Good percentage increase from 2000 on, but starting from such a low base the absolute numbers are still very low. Here are numbers for all countries to give more perspective: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
    (note that these numbers are PPP which increases the $ value for low cost of living countries)

    I will not deny that the starting point was low and that immediate post colonial performance was awful. But recent performance has been good, particularly total GDP and as you point out, not merely total but per capita at the same time despite large population growth and the impact of AIDS on the adult population of many countries. Impressive.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    I would hesitate to call that growth from such a low base "impressive", but at least it's an improvement over the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Let's just hope they can sustain it long enough to cause their fertility rate to decline which everyone keeps telling us should happen.
  26. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Truth

    Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.
     
    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?

    “Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?”

    -You are looking at it entirely backwards. We shouldn’t be looking at what they want, we should be looking at what is best for the US and it’s citizens. Whether or not we would allow high IQ/talented immigrants, it’s pretty obvious we have no need for more low IQ welfare vacuums who have 6 kids that serve as anchor babies for the rest of their African hillbilly clan to jump on in. Not to mention becoming a permanent drag on the country as dolt begets dolt ad infinitum. It’s easy enough to screen potential immigrants for abilities, talent and intelligence. If it costs more to do it, then let them cough up more money in fees for the privilege of applying to come here. Whether they can pay or not can itself serve as a screen- those who can’t tend to be those who lack the wherewithal to either save up or make a high enough living to cover it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    it’s pretty obvious we have no need for more low IQ welfare vacuums who have 6 kids that serve as anchor babies for the rest of their African hillbilly clan to jump on in.
     
    Yeah...if it happened.


    http://www.tadias.com/10/15/2014/census-foreign-born-africans-most-educated-immigrants-in-u-s/
  27. Pierrej says:
    @joef
    Criticizing afro american behavior is not to dehumanize a race. Its to point out valid examples of destructive behavior that is occurring among a specific ethnic group, called afro americans; not a criticism of the Black race in general (afro americans being a mere subset of the Black Negro race).

    Its not so much about IQ and talents, because even if low, if a person chooses to maximize what they have (within their own personal limitations) in a ethical & lawful way, that is an overall good outcome. In addition immigrants on average are usually hard working risk takers, and that is also an overall good thing, as long as it is utilized in lawful ways.

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation. But the problem is the negative afro american influence upon their children, who will likely be afro americanized.

    Than there is the additional problem as this country continues on its long decline. As our economy deteriorates, with scarcity becoming the norm, and as afro american violent racial balkanization increases, all Blacks in this country will suffer from mistrust, from other groups, of anything Black.
    This will force them into the parasitical afro american camp by default, which will be the ruin of many functional productive Black immigrants.

    Libs believe that there is a mythological utopia of diversity being created. But what they are really creating is separation, because there is no agreement on any core cultural values. This was demonstrated by the Orlando shooting which caused great amount of cognitive dissidence among the libs. Their whole multicultural narrative what thrown is disarray, when a Muslim killed gays. According to our lib social warriors, the only politically correct target are White males (the productive class that afro american live off of).

    The multicultural myth will not stand up in our decline, and since we have not created a common culture to unify us, the groups will separate by mostly ethnic divisions. You are already seeing it in southern California, where the Mexican immigrant gangs are warring (and winning) against the afro american thugs.

    The leftist have turned afro americans into parasitical pets, and now expect the rest of us to foot the bill for it. If that is their version of utopia, of course I want no part of it, and have no vested interest in watching the system continue this way. So I do not really care if this unsustainable system collapse. Between two bad alternatives, I will take the one with a bit more freedom. History is full of collapses, and hardship was the norm for most human beings. And as this mess is being forced upon us by the meddling leftist, we may all come to know what real hardship is all about. Pray that I am wrong. (only good thing is the leftist will suffer from the Frankenstein monster that they created)

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation.

    This has been more or less my experience as well. Another thing that stands out to me about African immigrants is how much better they dress than American blacks. They seem to pay more attention to their appearance, even in their leisure time.

    However, I do have to wonder how prone to corruption they are. Several years ago I chatted with a guy from Sierra Leone for a couple of hours. He was a well educated, stocky guy in his mid 30′s (although he looked older) who had ties to the Sierra Leone government prior to moving to the US in the early 2000′s. I don’t remember many of the details of the conversation, but what stuck out the most to me was how casually he described his own personal dealings with corrupt politicians/warlords in his home country. Some of the stuff he described sounded quite seedy, and of course it’s impossible to know what details he decided to omit.

    Surveying the world at large, it looks as though a good first cut for a sensible immigration policy into Western nations would be: no blacks, no Muslims.

    Yes, this seems like a good idea to me as well.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joef
    Yes I agree that it is troubling that some immigrants have been conditioned towards corrupt practices, from their nation of origination.
    Not to excuse it, but when you are surrounded by corruption, even when you do not want to get involved, its almost impossible to exist without getting a little sullied yourself. In some cultures its merely an expectant gratuity to move things through an unworkable bureaucracy.
    And there is not much opportunity to whistle blow and reform the system in these types of places (at least not without some type of retribution). Honesty is not admired in corrupt cultures; on the contrary its looked upon with contempt and suspicion by corrupt leaders.
    Probably he was mostly stuck with the culture he lived in, did not have too many other alternatives out of it, did not want to be singled out, and it just became the norm of daily life.

    At least their corruption is out in the open, unlike our political corruption which is secretive and couched with legitimacy. Our politicians mostly participate in a corruption of ambitious opportunism, and then hypocritically behave with a sanctimonious attitude. They use quid pro quo's for self seeking advantage, just not with money directly changing hands.

    But with all that said, I believe that after our ponzi economics, afro american racial animosity towards others, is one of the worst problems that our society has to deal with. We would all like afro americans to recognize the error of their ways and incorporate themselves peacefully into the rest of society. But the exact opposite is being encouraged & promoted by our irresponsible leftist. Thus, afro american racial balkanization and violence is a bigger worry to me than African immigrants who lived with corruption in their nation of origin.

  28. Truth says:
    @res

    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?
     
    Sigh. It's really not that complicated.

    1. Everyone (or close enough to, for the nitpickers out there) wants to improve their lives.
    2. Smart people are better able to do so for a variety of reasons. For example, they tend to have more resources and are better able to navigate the migration process. IMHO they are also more likely to succeed in the US which adds incentive.
    3. 2. serves as an implicit IQ test for immigrants.
    4. Also, people from dysfunctional countries generally have more room to improve their lives by moving thus more incentive to do so.

    Hopefully you will either have an intelligent response or not feel the need to ask a 16th time.

    P.S. Do you disagree with anything specific that you quoted? If so, please specify what and provide an actual argument. The only thing I see which is not clearly factual is the description "crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries" and even for that I think it is hard to dispute that it is distressingly true more often than not.

    Anti-Sigh;

    No.

    2) How are smart people better able to manipulate a Green card lottery held by the US, in Nigeria? Are smart people able to go back in time and select relatives who moved to the US before they were born? Because those are the two methods by which most foreigners get here.

    3) So it separates the 70 IQ people from the +2 SD, 82 IQ people who come to the US and become doctors and petroleum engineers?

    4) I’d like to see you drag Derbyshire back to England, I hope you’ve practiced your fighting skills.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    2) How are smart people better able to manipulate a Green card lottery held by the US, in Nigeria? Are smart people able to go back in time and select relatives who moved to the US before they were born? Because those are the two methods by which most foreigners get here.
     
    By being aware the lottery exists and knowing how to fill out the necessary paperwork (as I said above, this really isn't that hard to understand). I believe smart people are more likely to have relatives who moved to the US before they were born (immigration was more difficult then, and IQ is partly genetic).

    These effects are lessening as we continue to lower immigration standards and import low functioning refugees though--so even if you're not right yet you might be soon enough.


    3) So it separates the 70 IQ people from the +2 SD, 82 IQ people who come to the US and become doctors and petroleum engineers?
     
    So now you're moving the goalposts? First it was about immigration not selecting for IQ; while now it is about immigration not selecting enough for IQ.

    70 is a low mean, and 6 is low for an estimate of the SD. The metastudy DOI DOI:10.1016/j.intell.2009.05.002
    has results for a variety of studies and they seem to cluster around a mean closer to 80 with an SD of ~12.

    4) I’d like to see you drag Derbyshire back to England, I hope you’ve practiced your fighting skills.
     
    Humor is welcome, and I thought that was funny. But don't confuse that with an argument. I doubt the difference in Derb's quality of life between here and England is as great as the difference experienced by the average African immigrant to the US.

    Since you chose to ignore this the first time I asked it. What specifically do you disagree with in the text you quoted in your first post above (3)? Presumably describing something as foolishness implies disagreement?

    Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.
     
  29. Truth says:
    @Marcus
    I wouldn't mind some African immigrants, specifically the White former South Africans, Rhodesians, etc. great people.

    It’s all good, they don’t have kids, there won’t be any in 6 generations anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Wrong, their population has decreased mainly due to emigration. In any case, contra black "thinking," numbers alone aren't a quality: 500 or so Boers exterminated many thousands of kafirs at the battle of Blood River.
  30. Truth says:
    @Anonymous
    "Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?"

    -You are looking at it entirely backwards. We shouldn't be looking at what they want, we should be looking at what is best for the US and it's citizens. Whether or not we would allow high IQ/talented immigrants, it's pretty obvious we have no need for more low IQ welfare vacuums who have 6 kids that serve as anchor babies for the rest of their African hillbilly clan to jump on in. Not to mention becoming a permanent drag on the country as dolt begets dolt ad infinitum. It's easy enough to screen potential immigrants for abilities, talent and intelligence. If it costs more to do it, then let them cough up more money in fees for the privilege of applying to come here. Whether they can pay or not can itself serve as a screen- those who can't tend to be those who lack the wherewithal to either save up or make a high enough living to cover it.

    it’s pretty obvious we have no need for more low IQ welfare vacuums who have 6 kids that serve as anchor babies for the rest of their African hillbilly clan to jump on in.

    Yeah…if it happened.

    http://www.tadias.com/10/15/2014/census-foreign-born-africans-most-educated-immigrants-in-u-s/

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    That link sure seems to contradict the comments here denying that immigration selects for IQ. Thanks for posting it! Now if only regression to the mean wasn't a reality...
  31. Marcus says:
    @Truth
    It's all good, they don't have kids, there won't be any in 6 generations anyway.

    Wrong, their population has decreased mainly due to emigration. In any case, contra black “thinking,” numbers alone aren’t a quality: 500 or so Boers exterminated many thousands of kafirs at the battle of Blood River.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth

    In any case, contra black “thinking,” numbers alone aren’t a quality: 500 or so Boers exterminated many thousands of kafirs at the battle of Blood River.
     
    I'm liking the pride in mass murder, Bro. WLM!
  32. Truth says:
    @Marcus
    Wrong, their population has decreased mainly due to emigration. In any case, contra black "thinking," numbers alone aren't a quality: 500 or so Boers exterminated many thousands of kafirs at the battle of Blood River.

    In any case, contra black “thinking,” numbers alone aren’t a quality: 500 or so Boers exterminated many thousands of kafirs at the battle of Blood River.

    I’m liking the pride in mass murder, Bro. WLM!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Are you blaq yourself? It was a battle, you know, two groups of armed combatants trying to kill each other. Of course, as is usually the case, the negroes were slaughtered, but it's not the whites fault that kafirs fail at war like everything else. Unlike cowardly American negroes, the kafirs did at least fight like men.
  33. joef says:
    @Pierrej

    I found most African immigrants to be pleasant and hardworking, and most reject the dysfunctional thuggish afro american culture in this nation.
     
    This has been more or less my experience as well. Another thing that stands out to me about African immigrants is how much better they dress than American blacks. They seem to pay more attention to their appearance, even in their leisure time.

    However, I do have to wonder how prone to corruption they are. Several years ago I chatted with a guy from Sierra Leone for a couple of hours. He was a well educated, stocky guy in his mid 30's (although he looked older) who had ties to the Sierra Leone government prior to moving to the US in the early 2000's. I don't remember many of the details of the conversation, but what stuck out the most to me was how casually he described his own personal dealings with corrupt politicians/warlords in his home country. Some of the stuff he described sounded quite seedy, and of course it's impossible to know what details he decided to omit.

    Surveying the world at large, it looks as though a good first cut for a sensible immigration policy into Western nations would be: no blacks, no Muslims.
     
    Yes, this seems like a good idea to me as well.

    Yes I agree that it is troubling that some immigrants have been conditioned towards corrupt practices, from their nation of origination.
    Not to excuse it, but when you are surrounded by corruption, even when you do not want to get involved, its almost impossible to exist without getting a little sullied yourself. In some cultures its merely an expectant gratuity to move things through an unworkable bureaucracy.
    And there is not much opportunity to whistle blow and reform the system in these types of places (at least not without some type of retribution). Honesty is not admired in corrupt cultures; on the contrary its looked upon with contempt and suspicion by corrupt leaders.
    Probably he was mostly stuck with the culture he lived in, did not have too many other alternatives out of it, did not want to be singled out, and it just became the norm of daily life.

    At least their corruption is out in the open, unlike our political corruption which is secretive and couched with legitimacy. Our politicians mostly participate in a corruption of ambitious opportunism, and then hypocritically behave with a sanctimonious attitude. They use quid pro quo’s for self seeking advantage, just not with money directly changing hands.

    But with all that said, I believe that after our ponzi economics, afro american racial animosity towards others, is one of the worst problems that our society has to deal with. We would all like afro americans to recognize the error of their ways and incorporate themselves peacefully into the rest of society. But the exact opposite is being encouraged & promoted by our irresponsible leftist. Thus, afro american racial balkanization and violence is a bigger worry to me than African immigrants who lived with corruption in their nation of origin.

    Read More
  34. Marcus says:
    @Truth

    In any case, contra black “thinking,” numbers alone aren’t a quality: 500 or so Boers exterminated many thousands of kafirs at the battle of Blood River.
     
    I'm liking the pride in mass murder, Bro. WLM!

    Are you blaq yourself? It was a battle, you know, two groups of armed combatants trying to kill each other. Of course, as is usually the case, the negroes were slaughtered, but it’s not the whites fault that kafirs fail at war like everything else. Unlike cowardly American negroes, the kafirs did at least fight like men.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    You mean that ruthless law, the rule of IQ, right?

    Still I think in older times it didn't always determine results on the battlefield.
    I don't think the army of Alexander the Great was higher than the Greek they defeated in IQ.
    , @rw95
    And what are you doing with those "superior huhwhyte genes?" Are you having your brood of ubermensch white children to reverse demographic trends?

    Or are you just pretending you're some superman on the internet?

    Funny, but in my experience, the former activity is not usually what your kind is doing...

  35. res says:
    @Philip Owen
    I will not deny that the starting point was low and that immediate post colonial performance was awful. But recent performance has been good, particularly total GDP and as you point out, not merely total but per capita at the same time despite large population growth and the impact of AIDS on the adult population of many countries. Impressive.

    I would hesitate to call that growth from such a low base “impressive”, but at least it’s an improvement over the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Let’s just hope they can sustain it long enough to cause their fertility rate to decline which everyone keeps telling us should happen.

    Read More
  36. res says:
    @Truth
    Anti-Sigh;

    No.

    2) How are smart people better able to manipulate a Green card lottery held by the US, in Nigeria? Are smart people able to go back in time and select relatives who moved to the US before they were born? Because those are the two methods by which most foreigners get here.

    3) So it separates the 70 IQ people from the +2 SD, 82 IQ people who come to the US and become doctors and petroleum engineers?

    4) I'd like to see you drag Derbyshire back to England, I hope you've practiced your fighting skills.

    2) How are smart people better able to manipulate a Green card lottery held by the US, in Nigeria? Are smart people able to go back in time and select relatives who moved to the US before they were born? Because those are the two methods by which most foreigners get here.

    By being aware the lottery exists and knowing how to fill out the necessary paperwork (as I said above, this really isn’t that hard to understand). I believe smart people are more likely to have relatives who moved to the US before they were born (immigration was more difficult then, and IQ is partly genetic).

    These effects are lessening as we continue to lower immigration standards and import low functioning refugees though–so even if you’re not right yet you might be soon enough.

    3) So it separates the 70 IQ people from the +2 SD, 82 IQ people who come to the US and become doctors and petroleum engineers?

    So now you’re moving the goalposts? First it was about immigration not selecting for IQ; while now it is about immigration not selecting enough for IQ.

    70 is a low mean, and 6 is low for an estimate of the SD. The metastudy DOI DOI:10.1016/j.intell.2009.05.002
    has results for a variety of studies and they seem to cluster around a mean closer to 80 with an SD of ~12.

    4) I’d like to see you drag Derbyshire back to England, I hope you’ve practiced your fighting skills.

    Humor is welcome, and I thought that was funny. But don’t confuse that with an argument. I doubt the difference in Derb’s quality of life between here and England is as great as the difference experienced by the average African immigrant to the US.

    Since you chose to ignore this the first time I asked it. What specifically do you disagree with in the text you quoted in your first post above (3)? Presumably describing something as foolishness implies disagreement?

    Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    My friend, I've been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired. Just allow me to say, first thing, that most everyone, EVERYWHERE wants to come to the US.
  37. res says:
    @Truth

    it’s pretty obvious we have no need for more low IQ welfare vacuums who have 6 kids that serve as anchor babies for the rest of their African hillbilly clan to jump on in.
     
    Yeah...if it happened.


    http://www.tadias.com/10/15/2014/census-foreign-born-africans-most-educated-immigrants-in-u-s/

    That link sure seems to contradict the comments here denying that immigration selects for IQ. Thanks for posting it! Now if only regression to the mean wasn’t a reality…

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Are you sure you know what "a reality" is?

    https://aplanetruth.info/
    , @rw95
    You are aware that regression is a family effect, and not a racial effect, yes?
  38. 5371 says:
    @Philip Owen


    Misinformed as usual. A lot of sub Saharan Africa has had substantial economic growth recently. Africa the perpetual basket case was a Tony Blair era theme. Raw materials are off the boil but large chunks of the place were overheating anyway. Nigeria manages to achieve catastrophe despite advantages but most countries do better.

    Oh, it’s Mr. Captain-Of-Industry again! If you keep company accounts to the same standard as African statistics, you’re liable to find yourself relaxing in the clink.

    Read More
  39. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Personally I couldn’t care less what happens to Nigeria, Zimbabwe, or Haiti. But Goodwhites claim they do care—yet they seem to be fine with our accepting all the smart people from those places, depleting their already too-small stocks of high-quality human capital.

    They’re hypocrites. You knew that, of course. But it’s always worth saying again.

    We know that, but they themselves don’t.

    Read More
  40. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Marcus
    Are you blaq yourself? It was a battle, you know, two groups of armed combatants trying to kill each other. Of course, as is usually the case, the negroes were slaughtered, but it's not the whites fault that kafirs fail at war like everything else. Unlike cowardly American negroes, the kafirs did at least fight like men.

    You mean that ruthless law, the rule of IQ, right?

    Still I think in older times it didn’t always determine results on the battlefield.
    I don’t think the army of Alexander the Great was higher than the Greek they defeated in IQ.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bomag

    I don’t think the army of Alexander the Great was higher than the Greek they defeated in IQ.
     
    This highlights the wider distribution of talents in European peoples that gave rise to the exceptional leadership abilities of an Alexander which was the difference maker in this case. The arts and sciences are advanced by a few outlier individuals, and European derived people cast off more such individuals.
  41. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Chiquita LeStrange
    Except that Africa isn't going backwards.

    You mean that with hundreds of billions of gift money precipitated upon them they still somehow and in part, where (forcefully: they think medicines and surgery are some scary form of sorcery, so they have to be coaxed into undergoing medical practices) helped by non-African medical personnel survive, right?

    Or you mean they have made some astonishing invention, like the next thing like the TV or Internet, and it has gone unmentioned in our hyper anti-black turbo-White-supremacistic media?

    Read More
  42. jim jones says:

    Surely African GDP will increase because the West has created a vast body of Scientific knowledge?

    Read More
  43. musings says:

    Putting Africans aside for a moment, there has long been a successful black bourgeoisie in the United States, which I have seen firsthand in Boston. They have enough generational wealth to send their children to elite private schools, to take them out of harm’s way with elite camps and boarding schools, and to pass on the notion that professional lives matter (to the family). These people do not “regress to the mean” or turn illiterate in a generation or two, or start shooting each other in gang violence. They summer on Martha’s Vineyard around here. The kids wind up as doctors, lawyers, judges and professors. So if people are diligent about it, they do not slip down the social ladder. Is it about IQ? Not so much about that as acquired knowledge about how society works.

    Recently, when hospitalized, I met a resident who is a beautiful Nigerian woman doctor. She will no doubt be a major social force on the Boston scene one day, and mix well both with whites and the black bourgeoisie (although she may be more conservative politically, coming from a wealthy African background). She will buy a house in a good neighborhood where even the public schools are up to the high standards of traditional private ones in New England. Unless her kids are total failures (I see a fine house-husband in her future – perhaps a sculptor or a classical musician), then why should there be some regression to the mean? I also think this woman knows her way around hiring good servants.

    Should more of her sort be invited from Africa? Absolutely. The more the merrier.

    Read More
    • Agree: Triumph104
    • Replies: @joef
    This is the problem however:

    A) Most of the Black professional class will excuse affirmative action that allows other non qualified afro americans to be doctors/lawyers/engineers/accountants/dentist with them. They do not seem to worry that this causes a credibility gap as to whether the professional degree was actually earned or not. It works against their own rational self interest to allow this because they are going to be doubted for the professional degree they actually earned.

    B) Many of them are still liberal politically. Much of this is from Black guilt for the fact that they made it out of the afro american ghetto. The afro american ghetto culture, instead of emulating the good example, disparage their achievements as being white. The Black professional class ends up pandering to the radical afro american dysfunction as much as any guilt ridden reality challenged white liberal. Also at times they also jump on the blame whitey bandwagon. This just perpetuates and exasperates our current situation of racial disharmony.

    Thus, they unwittingly help to promote the racial balkanization problem that is growing in this country, which after our ponzi economic system, is our biggest problem (and will eventually turn ubiquitously violent).

    , @Marcus
    Why? Africa and Asia desperately need their "best and brightest." Kind of selfish for the US to take them.
    , @IA

    I also think this woman knows her way around hiring good servants.
     
    You are as mad as a hatter. Watch the movie "White Material." Better yet live around a lot of blacks.
    , @JSM
    PFFFT. I'll see your anecdote and raise with my own: My daughter was assigned by her HMO a Nigerian born and "educated" primary care doctor (who did her internship in Detroit, then fled to the suburbs of Denver). This clown said celiac disease is "not a serious illness," apparently unaware that undiagnosed / un- or undertreated celiac disease can KILL you through increasing your risk of lymphoma and can certainly ruin your quality of life through debilitating pain and diarrhea and depression.
  44. joef says:
    @musings
    Putting Africans aside for a moment, there has long been a successful black bourgeoisie in the United States, which I have seen firsthand in Boston. They have enough generational wealth to send their children to elite private schools, to take them out of harm's way with elite camps and boarding schools, and to pass on the notion that professional lives matter (to the family). These people do not "regress to the mean" or turn illiterate in a generation or two, or start shooting each other in gang violence. They summer on Martha's Vineyard around here. The kids wind up as doctors, lawyers, judges and professors. So if people are diligent about it, they do not slip down the social ladder. Is it about IQ? Not so much about that as acquired knowledge about how society works.

    Recently, when hospitalized, I met a resident who is a beautiful Nigerian woman doctor. She will no doubt be a major social force on the Boston scene one day, and mix well both with whites and the black bourgeoisie (although she may be more conservative politically, coming from a wealthy African background). She will buy a house in a good neighborhood where even the public schools are up to the high standards of traditional private ones in New England. Unless her kids are total failures (I see a fine house-husband in her future - perhaps a sculptor or a classical musician), then why should there be some regression to the mean? I also think this woman knows her way around hiring good servants.

    Should more of her sort be invited from Africa? Absolutely. The more the merrier.

    This is the problem however:

    A) Most of the Black professional class will excuse affirmative action that allows other non qualified afro americans to be doctors/lawyers/engineers/accountants/dentist with them. They do not seem to worry that this causes a credibility gap as to whether the professional degree was actually earned or not. It works against their own rational self interest to allow this because they are going to be doubted for the professional degree they actually earned.

    B) Many of them are still liberal politically. Much of this is from Black guilt for the fact that they made it out of the afro american ghetto. The afro american ghetto culture, instead of emulating the good example, disparage their achievements as being white. The Black professional class ends up pandering to the radical afro american dysfunction as much as any guilt ridden reality challenged white liberal. Also at times they also jump on the blame whitey bandwagon. This just perpetuates and exasperates our current situation of racial disharmony.

    Thus, they unwittingly help to promote the racial balkanization problem that is growing in this country, which after our ponzi economic system, is our biggest problem (and will eventually turn ubiquitously violent).

    Read More
    • Agree: Jeff77450
    • Replies: @musings
    joef, the important thing is not to pander - to show how counter-productive that is, to name it when you see it, with the best of mutual good will.

    The idea that we are encouraging balkanization would most be true in the segregated Jim Crow South. The fact is that the demographics have never been in the whites' favor in the South. This has always been a multicultural society, with attempts to blend both internal and external to the groups involved. The process of annexing new territory accelerated it even before the railroads were built and advertised for European immigration.
  45. Marcus says:
    @musings
    Putting Africans aside for a moment, there has long been a successful black bourgeoisie in the United States, which I have seen firsthand in Boston. They have enough generational wealth to send their children to elite private schools, to take them out of harm's way with elite camps and boarding schools, and to pass on the notion that professional lives matter (to the family). These people do not "regress to the mean" or turn illiterate in a generation or two, or start shooting each other in gang violence. They summer on Martha's Vineyard around here. The kids wind up as doctors, lawyers, judges and professors. So if people are diligent about it, they do not slip down the social ladder. Is it about IQ? Not so much about that as acquired knowledge about how society works.

    Recently, when hospitalized, I met a resident who is a beautiful Nigerian woman doctor. She will no doubt be a major social force on the Boston scene one day, and mix well both with whites and the black bourgeoisie (although she may be more conservative politically, coming from a wealthy African background). She will buy a house in a good neighborhood where even the public schools are up to the high standards of traditional private ones in New England. Unless her kids are total failures (I see a fine house-husband in her future - perhaps a sculptor or a classical musician), then why should there be some regression to the mean? I also think this woman knows her way around hiring good servants.

    Should more of her sort be invited from Africa? Absolutely. The more the merrier.

    Why? Africa and Asia desperately need their “best and brightest.” Kind of selfish for the US to take them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ivy
    A prior generation said "How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they seen Paree?"

    The faint echo is keeping them down in the third world once they've seen MTV (or fill in your favorite Occidental enticement).
  46. musings says:
    @joef
    This is the problem however:

    A) Most of the Black professional class will excuse affirmative action that allows other non qualified afro americans to be doctors/lawyers/engineers/accountants/dentist with them. They do not seem to worry that this causes a credibility gap as to whether the professional degree was actually earned or not. It works against their own rational self interest to allow this because they are going to be doubted for the professional degree they actually earned.

    B) Many of them are still liberal politically. Much of this is from Black guilt for the fact that they made it out of the afro american ghetto. The afro american ghetto culture, instead of emulating the good example, disparage their achievements as being white. The Black professional class ends up pandering to the radical afro american dysfunction as much as any guilt ridden reality challenged white liberal. Also at times they also jump on the blame whitey bandwagon. This just perpetuates and exasperates our current situation of racial disharmony.

    Thus, they unwittingly help to promote the racial balkanization problem that is growing in this country, which after our ponzi economic system, is our biggest problem (and will eventually turn ubiquitously violent).

    joef, the important thing is not to pander – to show how counter-productive that is, to name it when you see it, with the best of mutual good will.

    The idea that we are encouraging balkanization would most be true in the segregated Jim Crow South. The fact is that the demographics have never been in the whites’ favor in the South. This has always been a multicultural society, with attempts to blend both internal and external to the groups involved. The process of annexing new territory accelerated it even before the railroads were built and advertised for European immigration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @joef
    Well unfortunately all we collectively do as a nation is pander and praise afro americans. And when this produces negative results, we do it some more.

    The racial balkanization I am referring to is its formal definition of 'breaking up into smaller and often hostile units'. And like the former Yugoslavia, especially when scarcity introduces itself from our Ponzi economic system, I can see it getting very bloody. Living and working in urban ghetto areas, I can assure you from personal experience (not book smarts, but from street smarts) that unlike any other group, afro americans use extreme violence for the most casual of reasons. Introduce potential starvation from empty store shelves and I can see it escalate really quick.

    The canary in the coal mind is when urban municipalities go bankrupt from the financial strain of providing never ending entitlements. They cannot print their own money to stall the process, so it will effect them first. And here I am talking real bankruptcy, not just a default where they reorganize their debt. But a bankruptcy where they no longer can provide city services to the public.

    It is what it is, and all the wishful thinking among the polite company to the contrary will not change it. If these trend lines continue, we will end up with a very bad result (and I do not see the political will to reverse/stop it).
    Pray that I am wrong.

  47. anon says: • Disclaimer

    Black and Muslim immigration to the west is insane and self-destructive.

    Read More
  48. Truth says:
    @res

    2) How are smart people better able to manipulate a Green card lottery held by the US, in Nigeria? Are smart people able to go back in time and select relatives who moved to the US before they were born? Because those are the two methods by which most foreigners get here.
     
    By being aware the lottery exists and knowing how to fill out the necessary paperwork (as I said above, this really isn't that hard to understand). I believe smart people are more likely to have relatives who moved to the US before they were born (immigration was more difficult then, and IQ is partly genetic).

    These effects are lessening as we continue to lower immigration standards and import low functioning refugees though--so even if you're not right yet you might be soon enough.


    3) So it separates the 70 IQ people from the +2 SD, 82 IQ people who come to the US and become doctors and petroleum engineers?
     
    So now you're moving the goalposts? First it was about immigration not selecting for IQ; while now it is about immigration not selecting enough for IQ.

    70 is a low mean, and 6 is low for an estimate of the SD. The metastudy DOI DOI:10.1016/j.intell.2009.05.002
    has results for a variety of studies and they seem to cluster around a mean closer to 80 with an SD of ~12.

    4) I’d like to see you drag Derbyshire back to England, I hope you’ve practiced your fighting skills.
     
    Humor is welcome, and I thought that was funny. But don't confuse that with an argument. I doubt the difference in Derb's quality of life between here and England is as great as the difference experienced by the average African immigrant to the US.

    Since you chose to ignore this the first time I asked it. What specifically do you disagree with in the text you quoted in your first post above (3)? Presumably describing something as foolishness implies disagreement?

    Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.
     

    My friend, I’ve been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired. Just allow me to say, first thing, that most everyone, EVERYWHERE wants to come to the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @res

    Just allow me to say, first thing, that most everyone, EVERYWHERE wants to come to the US.
     
    That seems fair enough (and is why open borders concern many of us). The question at hand though is who is making it to the US.


    My friend, I’ve been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired.
     
    I can imagine. It would really help both of us if you could use that expertise to supply good information/arguments and not just as an appeal to authority.
  49. Truth says:
    @5371
    Oh, it's Mr. Captain-Of-Industry again! If you keep company accounts to the same standard as African statistics, you're liable to find yourself relaxing in the clink.

    So your kids are going to have 100 IQs?

    Read More
  50. @Authenticjazzman
    Germany has had for years many well assimilated and cultured africans, and things are rapidly changing for probably the worst, as they, the newly arrived Africans are now tuned into the afroamerican mindset via MTV and thug rappers, and you can see them throughout the german landscape with ther pants hanging off of their butts and intimidating thug expressions on their faces. And before anyone tries to accuse me of harboring racist attitudes : I am a Jazz performer and I worship at the thrones of Charlie Parker and John Coltrane, aside from the fact that I shared an appartment witha black musician buddy for thirteen years. Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" member of forty-plus years.

    no racist, ye. but a smug, cultural ideologue, hater, perhaps.
    youthful music bothers you if it’s not ‘your kind’. youthful fashion offends your sensibilities(damn kids today!) mtv bothers you. apparently, it’s the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers – and not the old fashion niggas who knew their place – that have your mensa molecules in a mind meltdown.
    well mr. jazzman, i’m a musician too. and i play jazz, and i play blues, and i play ragtime, and i play bach, and i play bluegrass. i don’t hate, blacks, hillbillies, or germans.
    in fact, i appreciate the gifts to music offered by different cultures, as well as, the different eras from whence they sprang.
    i grew up with the hippie generation of the 60′s. the old folk hated the young culture, then as now.
    remember this old saying? ‘variety is the spice of life.’
    just in case you forgot.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    The current non-plus-ultra leftist label : "Hater", employed to counter anything they do not agree with. You simply are unable to comprehend my message, and so in despair you are compelled to blast out the "Hater" cannonball. Well friend it doesn't work on me, so try something else like maybe " homophobe", or how about " misogynist" or how about "racist" although this won't work because racist white guys don't share appartments with black friends for thirteen years.
    And where the fuck did I state in my post that I "Hate" blacks, hillbillies, or Germans. You are putting words in my mouth such as you leftists always do, and it does not phase me as I know your mindset and I see completely through you.
    Authenticjazzman, pro jazz performer, and "Mensa" member of forty years.
    PS : And any proficient jazz player is automatically a "Blues" player, which lends me to doubt your claim of being a "Musician"
    , @Authenticjazzman
    Lawrence Fitton, quoting you : " It's the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers that have you mensa molecules in a mind meltdown".
    Okay where do I start : First of all I grew up in Detroit, in a mixed neighborhood, and I was raised by an angelic black lady whom my mother brought in to take care of myself and siblings while my mom did a mans job in the labor force. So as far as the "Afroamerican mindset" is concerned, I have more knowledge and insight than you could ever dream of.
    This wonderful afroamerican lady , Catherine Rimmer was her actual name, brought me to jazz and blues at the tender age of ten or eleven, and my mom remained best friends with her until they both passed in their eighties.
    Secondly, I was together with a black Singer in the sixties for three years, and she was the love of my life until that point in time.
    Thirdly, if you were truely a jazz player you would fucking know that "Rap" and "Hiphop" are more than despised in the jazz community, despite Mile's excursion into these areas.
    James Moody , the great saxophonist and flutist, and compadre' of Charlie Parker, was famous for his distain of these anti-music endeavors and he has been quoted as saying : "Rap is crap",
    and jazz players, including myself, fervently resent the huge amount of monies showered upon these non-talented rap and hip-hop advocates of violence, while most jazz players, "Artists" as such, struggle to keep eating.
    And as far as my personal music biography is concerned : I studied classical flute performance at a conservatory, from 1980 til 1983, having worked up the Mozart flute concertos in G and D t0 performance level.
    I am a big country fan and sing in both styles, jazz and country, so as far as your tired cliche' " variety is the spice of life" is concerned, I "know" that I am surpassing you in all musical areas,
    therefore you are really going to have to rise up earlier to get over on myself. So put all of this in your leftist pipe and smoke it.
    Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" member of forty-plus years.
  51. res says:
    @Truth
    My friend, I've been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired. Just allow me to say, first thing, that most everyone, EVERYWHERE wants to come to the US.

    Just allow me to say, first thing, that most everyone, EVERYWHERE wants to come to the US.

    That seems fair enough (and is why open borders concern many of us). The question at hand though is who is making it to the US.

    My friend, I’ve been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired.

    I can imagine. It would really help both of us if you could use that expertise to supply good information/arguments and not just as an appeal to authority.

    Read More
  52. Neuday says:
    @Vasilis
    We all seem to presume that living in the United States from birth to adulthood is a dumbing down experience for all races, I wonder why.

    We all seem to presume that living in the United States from birth to adulthood is a dumbing down experience for all races, I wonder why.

    I think the cause is related to the semicolon shortage.

    Read More
  53. Jeff77450 says:
    @Vasilis
    We all seem to presume that living in the United States from birth to adulthood is a dumbing down experience for all races, I wonder why.

    Good point and the Flynn-effect argues otherwise.

    Read More
  54. IA says:
    @musings
    Putting Africans aside for a moment, there has long been a successful black bourgeoisie in the United States, which I have seen firsthand in Boston. They have enough generational wealth to send their children to elite private schools, to take them out of harm's way with elite camps and boarding schools, and to pass on the notion that professional lives matter (to the family). These people do not "regress to the mean" or turn illiterate in a generation or two, or start shooting each other in gang violence. They summer on Martha's Vineyard around here. The kids wind up as doctors, lawyers, judges and professors. So if people are diligent about it, they do not slip down the social ladder. Is it about IQ? Not so much about that as acquired knowledge about how society works.

    Recently, when hospitalized, I met a resident who is a beautiful Nigerian woman doctor. She will no doubt be a major social force on the Boston scene one day, and mix well both with whites and the black bourgeoisie (although she may be more conservative politically, coming from a wealthy African background). She will buy a house in a good neighborhood where even the public schools are up to the high standards of traditional private ones in New England. Unless her kids are total failures (I see a fine house-husband in her future - perhaps a sculptor or a classical musician), then why should there be some regression to the mean? I also think this woman knows her way around hiring good servants.

    Should more of her sort be invited from Africa? Absolutely. The more the merrier.

    I also think this woman knows her way around hiring good servants.

    You are as mad as a hatter. Watch the movie “White Material.” Better yet live around a lot of blacks.

    Read More
  55. IA says:

    Whites have been kicked out of Africa. Now blacks are colonizing white countries. We are insane.

    Read More
  56. Ivy says:
    @Marcus
    Why? Africa and Asia desperately need their "best and brightest." Kind of selfish for the US to take them.

    A prior generation said “How ya gonna keep ‘em down on the farm once they seen Paree?”

    The faint echo is keeping them down in the third world once they’ve seen MTV (or fill in your favorite Occidental enticement).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    A prior generation said “How ya gonna keep ‘em down on the farm once they seen Paree?” The faint echo is keeping them down in the third world once they’ve seen MTV (or fill in your favorite Occidental enticement).
     
    These days they can see (via Facebook, photos, videos) their bruthas and cousins monkeying around in front of the Eiffel Tower with some temporary white chick. Bruthas living the high life in the UK, Germany and FrenchieLand. They can see this in Ghana, Congo, Bangladesh and Algeria on their cheapass smartphone they can only connect to the internet three days a week.
    Chinese brands you barely heard of are churning out smartphones that are very good and usable.
    ________
    Made in China: Four horsemen of the iPhone apocalypse
    July 28, 2016
    Today it's the $100 value handset. Tomorrow it will be the $200 premium smartphone. There's nothing left for the traditional device OEMs with those kind of margins. Huawei, ZTE, Xiaomi and Lenovo are coming, and Apple and Samsung can't stop them.

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/made-in-china-four-horsemen-of-the-iphone-apocalypse/

  57. joef says:
    @musings
    joef, the important thing is not to pander - to show how counter-productive that is, to name it when you see it, with the best of mutual good will.

    The idea that we are encouraging balkanization would most be true in the segregated Jim Crow South. The fact is that the demographics have never been in the whites' favor in the South. This has always been a multicultural society, with attempts to blend both internal and external to the groups involved. The process of annexing new territory accelerated it even before the railroads were built and advertised for European immigration.

    Well unfortunately all we collectively do as a nation is pander and praise afro americans. And when this produces negative results, we do it some more.

    The racial balkanization I am referring to is its formal definition of ‘breaking up into smaller and often hostile units’. And like the former Yugoslavia, especially when scarcity introduces itself from our Ponzi economic system, I can see it getting very bloody. Living and working in urban ghetto areas, I can assure you from personal experience (not book smarts, but from street smarts) that unlike any other group, afro americans use extreme violence for the most casual of reasons. Introduce potential starvation from empty store shelves and I can see it escalate really quick.

    The canary in the coal mind is when urban municipalities go bankrupt from the financial strain of providing never ending entitlements. They cannot print their own money to stall the process, so it will effect them first. And here I am talking real bankruptcy, not just a default where they reorganize their debt. But a bankruptcy where they no longer can provide city services to the public.

    It is what it is, and all the wishful thinking among the polite company to the contrary will not change it. If these trend lines continue, we will end up with a very bad result (and I do not see the political will to reverse/stop it).
    Pray that I am wrong.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde

    Well unfortunately all we collectively do as a nation is pander and praise afro americans. And when this produces negative results, we do it some more.
     
    That fits into one of Lawrence Auster's laws of.....
    ________

    Auster’s First Law of Majority-Minority Relations in ...
    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009226.html
    List of Instances of Auster’s Laws of Majority-Minority Relations in Liberal Society . Since I love having Lawrence Auster’s great discovery at hand—his Laws ...

    ________

    Clarifying the First Law - amnation.com
    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009226.html
    List of Instances of Auster’s Laws of Majority-Minority Relations in ... The post on VFR referencing John Savage’s search for the canonical stating of ...
  58. Truth says:
    @res
    That link sure seems to contradict the comments here denying that immigration selects for IQ. Thanks for posting it! Now if only regression to the mean wasn't a reality...

    Are you sure you know what “a reality” is?

    https://aplanetruth.info/

    Read More
  59. Truth says:
    @res

    Just allow me to say, first thing, that most everyone, EVERYWHERE wants to come to the US.
     
    That seems fair enough (and is why open borders concern many of us). The question at hand though is who is making it to the US.


    My friend, I’ve been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired.
     
    I can imagine. It would really help both of us if you could use that expertise to supply good information/arguments and not just as an appeal to authority.

    When did I appeal to authority?

    Read More
    • Replies: @res
    I took the statement (which I quoted above my statement) "I’ve been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired." to be a veiled appeal to authority. In other words, paraphrasing, "Since I've lived here 10 years I am an expert and I get tired arguing about this with people who do not know as much about it as I do." The authority I took it that you appealed to is yourself due to your own expertise.

    That may not have been your intent, but I stand by my interpretation as reasonable. Deep experience is valuable, but if all someone uses it for is to assert their own expertise it doesn't help (i.e. does not explain and or substantiate their positions, ideally with linkage to that extensive experience).

    To be more precise, here is what I mapped your statement to: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ipse_dixit
  60. bomag says:
    @Anonymous
    You mean that ruthless law, the rule of IQ, right?

    Still I think in older times it didn't always determine results on the battlefield.
    I don't think the army of Alexander the Great was higher than the Greek they defeated in IQ.

    I don’t think the army of Alexander the Great was higher than the Greek they defeated in IQ.

    This highlights the wider distribution of talents in European peoples that gave rise to the exceptional leadership abilities of an Alexander which was the difference maker in this case. The arts and sciences are advanced by a few outlier individuals, and European derived people cast off more such individuals.

    Read More
    • Replies: @rw95
    Northern, western and (certain) southern Euros, yes.
    Irishmen? Most Slavic peoples? Southern Italians? Not so much.
  61. @Lawrence Fitton
    no racist, ye. but a smug, cultural ideologue, hater, perhaps.
    youthful music bothers you if it's not 'your kind'. youthful fashion offends your sensibilities(damn kids today!) mtv bothers you. apparently, it's the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers - and not the old fashion niggas who knew their place - that have your mensa molecules in a mind meltdown.
    well mr. jazzman, i'm a musician too. and i play jazz, and i play blues, and i play ragtime, and i play bach, and i play bluegrass. i don't hate, blacks, hillbillies, or germans.
    in fact, i appreciate the gifts to music offered by different cultures, as well as, the different eras from whence they sprang.
    i grew up with the hippie generation of the 60's. the old folk hated the young culture, then as now.
    remember this old saying? 'variety is the spice of life.'
    just in case you forgot.

    The current non-plus-ultra leftist label : “Hater”, employed to counter anything they do not agree with. You simply are unable to comprehend my message, and so in despair you are compelled to blast out the “Hater” cannonball. Well friend it doesn’t work on me, so try something else like maybe ” homophobe”, or how about ” misogynist” or how about “racist” although this won’t work because racist white guys don’t share appartments with black friends for thirteen years.
    And where the fuck did I state in my post that I “Hate” blacks, hillbillies, or Germans. You are putting words in my mouth such as you leftists always do, and it does not phase me as I know your mindset and I see completely through you.
    Authenticjazzman, pro jazz performer, and “Mensa” member of forty years.
    PS : And any proficient jazz player is automatically a “Blues” player, which lends me to doubt your claim of being a “Musician”

    Read More
  62. res says:
    @Truth
    When did I appeal to authority?

    I took the statement (which I quoted above my statement) “I’ve been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired.” to be a veiled appeal to authority. In other words, paraphrasing, “Since I’ve lived here 10 years I am an expert and I get tired arguing about this with people who do not know as much about it as I do.” The authority I took it that you appealed to is yourself due to your own expertise.

    That may not have been your intent, but I stand by my interpretation as reasonable. Deep experience is valuable, but if all someone uses it for is to assert their own expertise it doesn’t help (i.e. does not explain and or substantiate their positions, ideally with linkage to that extensive experience).

    To be more precise, here is what I mapped your statement to: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ipse_dixit

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    I said nothing about being an expert in anything, I said that I was bored with a repetitive and pointless rehash of what I've been over ad nauseam.
  63. Truth says:
    @res
    I took the statement (which I quoted above my statement) "I’ve been here for 10 years, and the same arguments over and over just get tired." to be a veiled appeal to authority. In other words, paraphrasing, "Since I've lived here 10 years I am an expert and I get tired arguing about this with people who do not know as much about it as I do." The authority I took it that you appealed to is yourself due to your own expertise.

    That may not have been your intent, but I stand by my interpretation as reasonable. Deep experience is valuable, but if all someone uses it for is to assert their own expertise it doesn't help (i.e. does not explain and or substantiate their positions, ideally with linkage to that extensive experience).

    To be more precise, here is what I mapped your statement to: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ipse_dixit

    I said nothing about being an expert in anything, I said that I was bored with a repetitive and pointless rehash of what I’ve been over ad nauseam.

    Read More
  64. @Lawrence Fitton
    no racist, ye. but a smug, cultural ideologue, hater, perhaps.
    youthful music bothers you if it's not 'your kind'. youthful fashion offends your sensibilities(damn kids today!) mtv bothers you. apparently, it's the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers - and not the old fashion niggas who knew their place - that have your mensa molecules in a mind meltdown.
    well mr. jazzman, i'm a musician too. and i play jazz, and i play blues, and i play ragtime, and i play bach, and i play bluegrass. i don't hate, blacks, hillbillies, or germans.
    in fact, i appreciate the gifts to music offered by different cultures, as well as, the different eras from whence they sprang.
    i grew up with the hippie generation of the 60's. the old folk hated the young culture, then as now.
    remember this old saying? 'variety is the spice of life.'
    just in case you forgot.

    Lawrence Fitton, quoting you : ” It’s the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers that have you mensa molecules in a mind meltdown”.
    Okay where do I start : First of all I grew up in Detroit, in a mixed neighborhood, and I was raised by an angelic black lady whom my mother brought in to take care of myself and siblings while my mom did a mans job in the labor force. So as far as the “Afroamerican mindset” is concerned, I have more knowledge and insight than you could ever dream of.
    This wonderful afroamerican lady , Catherine Rimmer was her actual name, brought me to jazz and blues at the tender age of ten or eleven, and my mom remained best friends with her until they both passed in their eighties.
    Secondly, I was together with a black Singer in the sixties for three years, and she was the love of my life until that point in time.
    Thirdly, if you were truely a jazz player you would fucking know that “Rap” and “Hiphop” are more than despised in the jazz community, despite Mile’s excursion into these areas.
    James Moody , the great saxophonist and flutist, and compadre’ of Charlie Parker, was famous for his distain of these anti-music endeavors and he has been quoted as saying : “Rap is crap”,
    and jazz players, including myself, fervently resent the huge amount of monies showered upon these non-talented rap and hip-hop advocates of violence, while most jazz players, “Artists” as such, struggle to keep eating.
    And as far as my personal music biography is concerned : I studied classical flute performance at a conservatory, from 1980 til 1983, having worked up the Mozart flute concertos in G and D t0 performance level.
    I am a big country fan and sing in both styles, jazz and country, so as far as your tired cliche’ ” variety is the spice of life” is concerned, I “know” that I am surpassing you in all musical areas,
    therefore you are really going to have to rise up earlier to get over on myself. So put all of this in your leftist pipe and smoke it.
    Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” member of forty-plus years.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Clyde
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3TzP-o4vhs
    , @joef
    You do not have to explain yourself to a leftist who interprets racism wherever he believes.
    Some are just irrational ideologues who are completely reality challenged individuals, thus you will never convince them;
    some are guilt ridden libs who suffer politically correct group think so you will never convince them either;
    and some are neck bearded millennials with very limited life experience, in flannel shirts and skinny jeans, trolling from their mother's basement, who mistaken academic book smarts for actual life experience.
    So do not bother justifying yourself, because to them their is no justification for stating actual reality. They are entitled to their own opinions, the problem is they believe they are entitled to their 'own facts' as well.
  65. Clyde says:
    @Truth

    Sub-Saharan Africa has a billion people. Even with a very low average IQ, that’s a heck of a big bell curve, and the extreme right-hand tail has tens of thousands of high-IQ persons in it. A lot of them want to get out of their crappy, corrupt, sinkhole countries, and the U.S.A. is highly favored as a destination.
     
    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not? And, since when did they start IQ testing immigrants?

    The poster allegedly known as “Truth” doth protest too much. You don’t want to live around the dumb and the criminally inclined. You don’t want to have to associate with them at work any more than you have to. Would you marry one? Alleged “Truth” is the same as the white nationalists he takes potshots at.

    Read More
  66. Clyde says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    Lawrence Fitton, quoting you : " It's the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers that have you mensa molecules in a mind meltdown".
    Okay where do I start : First of all I grew up in Detroit, in a mixed neighborhood, and I was raised by an angelic black lady whom my mother brought in to take care of myself and siblings while my mom did a mans job in the labor force. So as far as the "Afroamerican mindset" is concerned, I have more knowledge and insight than you could ever dream of.
    This wonderful afroamerican lady , Catherine Rimmer was her actual name, brought me to jazz and blues at the tender age of ten or eleven, and my mom remained best friends with her until they both passed in their eighties.
    Secondly, I was together with a black Singer in the sixties for three years, and she was the love of my life until that point in time.
    Thirdly, if you were truely a jazz player you would fucking know that "Rap" and "Hiphop" are more than despised in the jazz community, despite Mile's excursion into these areas.
    James Moody , the great saxophonist and flutist, and compadre' of Charlie Parker, was famous for his distain of these anti-music endeavors and he has been quoted as saying : "Rap is crap",
    and jazz players, including myself, fervently resent the huge amount of monies showered upon these non-talented rap and hip-hop advocates of violence, while most jazz players, "Artists" as such, struggle to keep eating.
    And as far as my personal music biography is concerned : I studied classical flute performance at a conservatory, from 1980 til 1983, having worked up the Mozart flute concertos in G and D t0 performance level.
    I am a big country fan and sing in both styles, jazz and country, so as far as your tired cliche' " variety is the spice of life" is concerned, I "know" that I am surpassing you in all musical areas,
    therefore you are really going to have to rise up earlier to get over on myself. So put all of this in your leftist pipe and smoke it.
    Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" member of forty-plus years.

    Read More
  67. Clyde says:
    @joef
    Well unfortunately all we collectively do as a nation is pander and praise afro americans. And when this produces negative results, we do it some more.

    The racial balkanization I am referring to is its formal definition of 'breaking up into smaller and often hostile units'. And like the former Yugoslavia, especially when scarcity introduces itself from our Ponzi economic system, I can see it getting very bloody. Living and working in urban ghetto areas, I can assure you from personal experience (not book smarts, but from street smarts) that unlike any other group, afro americans use extreme violence for the most casual of reasons. Introduce potential starvation from empty store shelves and I can see it escalate really quick.

    The canary in the coal mind is when urban municipalities go bankrupt from the financial strain of providing never ending entitlements. They cannot print their own money to stall the process, so it will effect them first. And here I am talking real bankruptcy, not just a default where they reorganize their debt. But a bankruptcy where they no longer can provide city services to the public.

    It is what it is, and all the wishful thinking among the polite company to the contrary will not change it. If these trend lines continue, we will end up with a very bad result (and I do not see the political will to reverse/stop it).
    Pray that I am wrong.

    Well unfortunately all we collectively do as a nation is pander and praise afro americans. And when this produces negative results, we do it some more.

    That fits into one of Lawrence Auster’s laws of…..
    ________

    Auster’s First Law of Majority-Minority Relations in …

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009226.html

    List of Instances of Auster’s Laws of Majority-Minority Relations in Liberal Society . Since I love having Lawrence Auster’s great discovery at hand—his Laws …

    ________

    Clarifying the First Law – amnation.com

    http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/009226.html

    List of Instances of Auster’s Laws of Majority-Minority Relations in … The post on VFR referencing John Savage’s search for the canonical stating of …

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  68. Clyde says:
    @Ivy
    A prior generation said "How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they seen Paree?"

    The faint echo is keeping them down in the third world once they've seen MTV (or fill in your favorite Occidental enticement).

    A prior generation said “How ya gonna keep ‘em down on the farm once they seen Paree?” The faint echo is keeping them down in the third world once they’ve seen MTV (or fill in your favorite Occidental enticement).

    These days they can see (via Facebook, photos, videos) their bruthas and cousins monkeying around in front of the Eiffel Tower with some temporary white chick. Bruthas living the high life in the UK, Germany and FrenchieLand. They can see this in Ghana, Congo, Bangladesh and Algeria on their cheapass smartphone they can only connect to the internet three days a week.
    Chinese brands you barely heard of are churning out smartphones that are very good and usable.
    ________
    Made in China: Four horsemen of the iPhone apocalypse
    July 28, 2016
    Today it’s the $100 value handset. Tomorrow it will be the $200 premium smartphone. There’s nothing left for the traditional device OEMs with those kind of margins. Huawei, ZTE, Xiaomi and Lenovo are coming, and Apple and Samsung can’t stop them.

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/made-in-china-four-horsemen-of-the-iphone-apocalypse/

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  69. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    HuffPo celebrates Nobel Prize winners being immigrants and uses it as a pro-3rd-world-immigration argument. Avoids mentioning they are all Caucasians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    HuffPo celebrates Nobel Prize winners being immigrants and uses it as a pro-3rd-world-immigration argument.
     
    In light of who founded HuffnPuff, Greece qualifies as Third World.

    Arianna was a lot smarter at 23 than she is at thrice that today. She regressed to some mean in just one lifetime.
  70. joef says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    Lawrence Fitton, quoting you : " It's the afroamerican mindset and thug rappers that have you mensa molecules in a mind meltdown".
    Okay where do I start : First of all I grew up in Detroit, in a mixed neighborhood, and I was raised by an angelic black lady whom my mother brought in to take care of myself and siblings while my mom did a mans job in the labor force. So as far as the "Afroamerican mindset" is concerned, I have more knowledge and insight than you could ever dream of.
    This wonderful afroamerican lady , Catherine Rimmer was her actual name, brought me to jazz and blues at the tender age of ten or eleven, and my mom remained best friends with her until they both passed in their eighties.
    Secondly, I was together with a black Singer in the sixties for three years, and she was the love of my life until that point in time.
    Thirdly, if you were truely a jazz player you would fucking know that "Rap" and "Hiphop" are more than despised in the jazz community, despite Mile's excursion into these areas.
    James Moody , the great saxophonist and flutist, and compadre' of Charlie Parker, was famous for his distain of these anti-music endeavors and he has been quoted as saying : "Rap is crap",
    and jazz players, including myself, fervently resent the huge amount of monies showered upon these non-talented rap and hip-hop advocates of violence, while most jazz players, "Artists" as such, struggle to keep eating.
    And as far as my personal music biography is concerned : I studied classical flute performance at a conservatory, from 1980 til 1983, having worked up the Mozart flute concertos in G and D t0 performance level.
    I am a big country fan and sing in both styles, jazz and country, so as far as your tired cliche' " variety is the spice of life" is concerned, I "know" that I am surpassing you in all musical areas,
    therefore you are really going to have to rise up earlier to get over on myself. So put all of this in your leftist pipe and smoke it.
    Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" member of forty-plus years.

    You do not have to explain yourself to a leftist who interprets racism wherever he believes.
    Some are just irrational ideologues who are completely reality challenged individuals, thus you will never convince them;
    some are guilt ridden libs who suffer politically correct group think so you will never convince them either;
    and some are neck bearded millennials with very limited life experience, in flannel shirts and skinny jeans, trolling from their mother’s basement, who mistaken academic book smarts for actual life experience.
    So do not bother justifying yourself, because to them their is no justification for stating actual reality. They are entitled to their own opinions, the problem is they believe they are entitled to their ‘own facts‘ as well.

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    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    Agreed, but sometime I simply cannot resist the attempt to set an issue straight with the pertaining facts, even though I am fully aware that leftists are completely oblivious to facts when they do not support their wacky viewpoint. Authenticjazzman, pro jazz performer and "Mensa" member of forty-plus years.
  71. Svigor says:

    The Left has been bellyaching for ever about how evil white Europeans stole natural resources from the nations they colonized. OK: If stealing natural resources is bad, why isn’t stealing human resources also bad, if not worse?

    Counting down until Nick “the moron” Diaz comes in to screech about how this analogy is too perfect to be used in an imperfect world…

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    • Replies: @Truth
    He has time for that? Isn't he fighting MacGregor in a rubber match?
  72. Svigor says:

    Again with the same foolishness? For the 15th time I will ask two questions: Why would smart people want to improve their lives but dumb people not?

    How will the answer to this question be in any way illuminating? Put another way: how is your question in any way illuminating?

    Unless her kids are total failures (I see a fine house-husband in her future – perhaps a sculptor or a classical musician), then why should there be some regression to the mean?

    So, you have no idea what “regression to the mean” actually means.

    Should more of her sort be invited from Africa? Absolutely. The more the merrier.

    In other words, you hate YT. Because as we all know, in the not-too-distant future, YT will be browbeaten with the “colonialist theft” of this woman. And you hate Africans, because our “gain” is Africa’s loss.

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  73. @joef
    You do not have to explain yourself to a leftist who interprets racism wherever he believes.
    Some are just irrational ideologues who are completely reality challenged individuals, thus you will never convince them;
    some are guilt ridden libs who suffer politically correct group think so you will never convince them either;
    and some are neck bearded millennials with very limited life experience, in flannel shirts and skinny jeans, trolling from their mother's basement, who mistaken academic book smarts for actual life experience.
    So do not bother justifying yourself, because to them their is no justification for stating actual reality. They are entitled to their own opinions, the problem is they believe they are entitled to their 'own facts' as well.

    Agreed, but sometime I simply cannot resist the attempt to set an issue straight with the pertaining facts, even though I am fully aware that leftists are completely oblivious to facts when they do not support their wacky viewpoint. Authenticjazzman, pro jazz performer and “Mensa” member of forty-plus years.

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  74. J1234 says:

    Yes, African Immigrants Do Better Than American Blacks–But It Won’t Last

    Yes, African Immigrants Do Better Than American Blacks–But who doesn’t?

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  75. @Anonymous
    HuffPo celebrates Nobel Prize winners being immigrants and uses it as a pro-3rd-world-immigration argument. Avoids mentioning they are all Caucasians.

    HuffPo celebrates Nobel Prize winners being immigrants and uses it as a pro-3rd-world-immigration argument.

    In light of who founded HuffnPuff, Greece qualifies as Third World.

    Arianna was a lot smarter at 23 than she is at thrice that today. She regressed to some mean in just one lifetime.

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  76. Truth says:
    @Svigor

    The Left has been bellyaching for ever about how evil white Europeans stole natural resources from the nations they colonized. OK: If stealing natural resources is bad, why isn’t stealing human resources also bad, if not worse?
     
    Counting down until Nick "the moron" Diaz comes in to screech about how this analogy is too perfect to be used in an imperfect world...

    He has time for that? Isn’t he fighting MacGregor in a rubber match?

    Read More
  77. @Jason Liu
    It's not entirely up to IQ. Later generations of assimilated Asians are also not as high achieving as more recent Asian immigrants. Many are average and walk/talk like white people.

    It just happens faster to high achieving Africans because their children are more affected by activist culture, and thus more likely to get a degree in some worthless grievance study, thereby terminating their own "old world striver" advantage in one or two generations.

    Really? So Jason, according to you it’s a problem if Asians start ‘walking and talking like whites.’ your lack of English written skills and logic tell us the opposite. For example, it’s a fact that Korean-Americans who migrated to the USA before the 1980s tended to integrate far more quickly and successfully, including the acquisition of better English language skills. Those successful and assimilated Koreans’ children did just as well and even better.

    The later waves of Koreans (legal and illegal) to the USA tend to congregate in their own ethnic enclaves. It is not unusual in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to find the children and grandchildren of Korean immigrants have less than native English language skills despite being born in those countries and not in Korea.

    They blame their lack of professional success on white racism in those countries but the fact is that not integrating enough and staying in their Korean-speaking enclaves held them back.

    The same for Chinese people from different areas in the world. The most successful come from families who may have spoken the old lingo but also ensured their children and grandchildren were truly bi-lingual and encouraged integration.

    As can be observed in immigrant countries, Asians have done better when there were less of them as they needed to be part of the wider society to progress rather than hanging around in their Koreatowns and Chinatowns as they do now, comfortably re-creating the insularity that the pioneer Asians in immigrant societies left behind to a considerable extent.

    And as somebody with wide experience of East Asia, I don’t buy into the ‘high Asian IQ’ mythos. South Korea (not North Korea) seems to have a disproportionate number of low IQ middle and older aged people in the regions outside Seoul. There is a simple minded staring, cackling and laughing at others who look different – not just non Koreans who are different.

    Children running into roads with traffic coming also is observable too many times – this while their families just watch as the darlings run near cars and other vehicles. Outside the two biggest cities, South Korea seems a throwback to Korean lack of progress and stagnant culture that was exploited so easily in the Japanese colonisation.

    Korean kids are given IQ tests from an early age in school so there is a familiarity with the format that other education systems elsewhere don’t have. But there is too much stupidity on display in South Korea generally (so many examples that could be given of stubbornly refusing reason in favour of habit) for anyone who is not Korean and lives there, to go along with the ‘high IQ’ story.

    The People’s Republic of China is also brimming with people but not with intelligence. That’s another story.

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  78. JSM says:
    @Truth

    It’s not entirely up to IQ. Later generations of assimilated Asians are also not as high achieving as more recent Asian immigrants. Many are average and walk/talk like white people.
     
    LOL; shots fired. Hey Jase, I agree it's hard to watch your peoples dumbed down by intermingling with whites, but what are you going to do?

    Stay back home in Asia?

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  79. JSM says:
    @musings
    Putting Africans aside for a moment, there has long been a successful black bourgeoisie in the United States, which I have seen firsthand in Boston. They have enough generational wealth to send their children to elite private schools, to take them out of harm's way with elite camps and boarding schools, and to pass on the notion that professional lives matter (to the family). These people do not "regress to the mean" or turn illiterate in a generation or two, or start shooting each other in gang violence. They summer on Martha's Vineyard around here. The kids wind up as doctors, lawyers, judges and professors. So if people are diligent about it, they do not slip down the social ladder. Is it about IQ? Not so much about that as acquired knowledge about how society works.

    Recently, when hospitalized, I met a resident who is a beautiful Nigerian woman doctor. She will no doubt be a major social force on the Boston scene one day, and mix well both with whites and the black bourgeoisie (although she may be more conservative politically, coming from a wealthy African background). She will buy a house in a good neighborhood where even the public schools are up to the high standards of traditional private ones in New England. Unless her kids are total failures (I see a fine house-husband in her future - perhaps a sculptor or a classical musician), then why should there be some regression to the mean? I also think this woman knows her way around hiring good servants.

    Should more of her sort be invited from Africa? Absolutely. The more the merrier.

    PFFFT. I’ll see your anecdote and raise with my own: My daughter was assigned by her HMO a Nigerian born and “educated” primary care doctor (who did her internship in Detroit, then fled to the suburbs of Denver). This clown said celiac disease is “not a serious illness,” apparently unaware that undiagnosed / un- or undertreated celiac disease can KILL you through increasing your risk of lymphoma and can certainly ruin your quality of life through debilitating pain and diarrhea and depression.

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  80. JSM says:
    @Truth
    I said nothing about being an expert in anything, I said that I was bored with a repetitive and pointless rehash of what I've been over ad nauseam.

    Then, why are you here arguing with us?

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  81. […] Yes, African Immigrants Do Better Than American Blacks–But It Won’t Last (John Derbyshire, The Unz Review) […]

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  82. Subrosa says:

    My mother is Igbo and Efik, my father is Irish and Echota Cherokee. Much like the five civilized tribes in the US, the Igbo adapted and were influenced by Western culture. There has been a long history of children resulting from Igbo mothers and western fathers.
    What I can tell you about the people who became American slaves is not nearly as fantastic as Hollowood made it seem. This is what has been told to me by tribal elders and some accounts do back it up.

    Not even a full year prior to the AST a large war had been fought throughout much of sub Saharan Africa. The victors kept POWS as slaves,indentured servants, as bargaining chips in cases of high profile prisoners. This is not unique historically. When the victors sold the slaves to the European they sold young pows, the sick, deaf, dumb, blind, and people who had been displaced due to war.

    The sampling of the population mostly brought to the US were part of groups highly disliked for causing war and famine. Some of you may see the correlation.

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  83. rw95 says:
    @Marcus
    Are you blaq yourself? It was a battle, you know, two groups of armed combatants trying to kill each other. Of course, as is usually the case, the negroes were slaughtered, but it's not the whites fault that kafirs fail at war like everything else. Unlike cowardly American negroes, the kafirs did at least fight like men.

    And what are you doing with those “superior huhwhyte genes?” Are you having your brood of ubermensch white children to reverse demographic trends?

    Or are you just pretending you’re some superman on the internet?

    Funny, but in my experience, the former activity is not usually what your kind is doing…

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  84. rw95 says:
    @res
    That link sure seems to contradict the comments here denying that immigration selects for IQ. Thanks for posting it! Now if only regression to the mean wasn't a reality...

    You are aware that regression is a family effect, and not a racial effect, yes?

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  85. rw95 says:
    @bomag

    I don’t think the army of Alexander the Great was higher than the Greek they defeated in IQ.
     
    This highlights the wider distribution of talents in European peoples that gave rise to the exceptional leadership abilities of an Alexander which was the difference maker in this case. The arts and sciences are advanced by a few outlier individuals, and European derived people cast off more such individuals.

    Northern, western and (certain) southern Euros, yes.
    Irishmen? Most Slavic peoples? Southern Italians? Not so much.

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Once as a colonial project, now as a moral playground, the ancient continent remains the object of Great Power maneuvering