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Whining Asian-Americans and the Pretty Lies of the Ruling Class
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\"Model Minority\" Poster. Credit: VDare.com
"Model Minority" Poster. Credit: VDare.com

Fifteen years ago — fifteen blessed years, readers— I wrote a piece titled “The Whining Minority.” That was at the time of the Wen Ho Lee brouhaha, for those who remember it, and the minority I was writing about was Americans of Chinese descent.

Permit me to quote myself from the yellowing parchment of September 2000:

Asians in America, and most particularly Chinese in America, are in danger of getting themselves a reputation as the whining minority. From a tiny number of instances of “discrimination,” many of them of very questionable significance, “Asian-American” activists are building a case for special treatment like that accorded to blacks, homosexuals and so on. They are, they want us to believe, victimized. They are, they claim, “distressed” by words they find “demeaning.”

The particular word they had found demeaning was, as I had just noted, the word “Chinaman.” That word had been declared taboo at some point in the later 20th century by whomever it is that gets to declare these things, though to my knowledge there was never any offense in it, direct or implied. Rather the contrary. My father, an Englishman born in 1899, whenever he had a stroke of good luck, used to say: “I must have shaken hands with a Chinaman!”

In that fifteen years another half-generation of delicate little human snowflakes has come to maturity, or at any rate legal drinking age. We are now in the era ofmicroaggressions and four-hour sensitivity-training sessions in the workplace.

Asian-American whining has gotten correspondingly louder.

There is a story on this in the October 3 issue of The Economist: The model minority is losing patience. Subhead: “Asian-Americans are the United States’ most successful minority, but they are complaining ever more vigorously about discrimination, especially in academia.”

Much of the material in the body of the story will be familiar to listeners. Chinese-Americans do very well in academics, but the Ivy League universities have quotason their admission numbers, holding them firmly down in the range 15 to 20 percent of admissions even as numbers of college-age Chinese-Americans have risen. Chinese-Americans have no trouble getting middle-class jobs, but they do have trouble getting up into senior executive ranks—the so-called“bamboo ceiling” … and so on.

As is normal—in fact compulsory—in Main Stream Media news reports in this age of science-hating ignorance, actual facts about human nature are ignored or denied in the Economist article:

Why do they do so well? Amy Hsin of the City University of New York and Yu Xie of the University of Michigan examined the progress of 6,000 white and Asian children, from toddlers through school, to find an answer. They rejected the idea that Asians were just innately much cleverer than whites: there was an early gap in cognitive abilities, but it declined to insignificance through school. The higher socioeconomic status of Asian parents provided part of the explanation, but only a small part. Their data suggested that Asian outperformance is thanks in large part to hard work. Ms. Hsin and Ms. Xie’s study showed a sizeable gap in effort between Asian and white children, which grew during their school careers.

That sounds authoritative, but you need to remember a few things.

  1. The state ideology throughout the Western world is that biology plays absolutely no part in human nature, that race is a fiction, and that anyone who speaks of race differences is motivated by malice. Upholding this state ideology in an authoritative way brings considerable career rewards for academics; contradicting it brings down fierce obloquy and career damage.
  2. For purposes of upholding the state ideology, there is a small number of academic studies you can quote. This University of Michigan study cited byThe Economist is becoming a favorite among race-deniers, up there with the 1959 Eyferth study on black-white differences.
  3. But one swallow doesn’t make a summer and one academic study doesn’t make a fact. Replication, replication. To the best of my knowledge the results of the Eyferth study have still, after 56 years, never been replicated. Neither have the results of the Michigan study; although since it only appeared last year, I guess it’s unfair to be asking for replication yet.
  4. The statement that the white-Asian IQ gap, quote, “declined to insignificance through school” is contradicted by a mountain of evidence stretching back through decades of psychometric research. The Unz Review webzine has good aggregations of references to the relevant papers: go to Unz.com and read pages on psychometry by Anatoly Karlin and “JayMan.” Adult East Asian mean IQ is significantly higher than the white mean by at least a sixth of a standard deviation, perhaps a half.
  5. For The Economist to say that the Michigan study data “suggested that Asian outperformance is thanks in large part to hard work,” merely shifts the nature-nurture issue from innate intelligence to innate patterns of behavior. There is a large and flourishing field of research called “behavioral genetics.” Its results to date leave no reasonable doubt that overall patterns of behavior are highly heritable and so genetic.

The underlying issue here is, therefore, differences in the statistical profiles of the different races on factors of behavior, intelligence, and personality. In a multiracial society these differences will naturally express themselves in statistical differences in educational and athletic attainment, occupational categories, andsocial dysfunctions.

That is all perfectly normal, natural, and unsurprising. Across the past few decades, however, Western societies have engaged in a concerted effort to deny what is normal and unsurprising about human nature. Hence public policies of racial set-aside and Affirmative Action; hence jurisprudential juju like “disparate impact.”

The grievances of Chinese Americans reported in the Economist article are a consequence of that denial. The equalist dogmas of our state ideology validate and encourage the kind of whining on display here. If innate race differences do not exist, then observed differences in life outcomes must be due to social or environmental factors that can be corrected. Why don’t we set about correcting them?

Here’s a more interesting question: How is it that decades of effort to correct them have delivered such slight and feeble results?

There are two ways the social disharmonies arising from race differences could be avoided or erased. One way is to have a monoracial society, like Japan or Finland, where there is no issue.

The other way is to spread a calm acceptance of the realities of human nature, as attested by well-replicated results from science; to abjure pretty lies; to discard administrative practices and jurisprudential doctrines based on pretty lies; and to let every individual live in freedom under equal laws equally applied, letting the statistical chips fall where they may.

But for our Ruling Class, of course, that is of course too horrible to contemplate.

So…let the whining continue!

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books.He’s had two books published by VDARE.com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and From the Dissident Right II: Essays 2013. His writings are archived at JohnDerbyshire.com.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. jtgw says: • Website

    Wait a minute. Are Asian-Americans complaining about being a “model minority”? Or are they complaining about not getting into the Ivy League or senior executive positions as much as they think they deserve? And if the latter, is that due to their innate lack of ability, or actual discrimination? I thought that, as least as far as the Ivy League was concerned, it was clear discrimination. Purely meritocratic institutions like Caltech are now almost half Asian, last time I checked anyway. So if Asians are not already taking up nearly half the student body of an elite academic institution, we can be pretty sure that institution is deliberately biased against Asian admissions.

    Still, 15-20 percent still well exceeds their proportion of the wider population. I don’t understand what their grounds for complaint are.

  2. Except that the Economist article isn’t actually about SJWs, microaggressions, stereotypes or the word Chinaman. It’s pretty much in the same vein as a Ron Unz article that was featured on this site (except that it couches the discussion in SJW lingo to make it more palatable to Economist readers).

  3. @jtgw

    Asians americans should just get rich. once rich enough, buy up some news organizations. if no one is selling, create one.

    the only way to change anything in the current us of a is with with noise back up by the media.

    that was how the jews got their student cap removed. they had the help of almost every news organization making it into a national issue overnight. money and owning the organizations is what worked.

    and this article reads like the barf of someone who just ate barf.

    ron’s article really opened my eyes. I would not blame any asian harboring hate for how they are treated.

    • Replies: @jtgw
    , @D. K.
    , @Threecranes
  4. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The looting of the carcass of the US over the next ten years or so will still happen whether they join in or not so it makes sense for them to join in while there is still some meat on the bone.

  5. Amy Tan complained about Asians being underrepresented in creative writing programs. She even went so far as to accuse teachers of pushing Asian students away from writing and towards STEM subjects. No mentioned of IQ/SAT data at all.

    http://genius.com/Amy-tan-mother-tongue-annotated?referent_id=2146547

  6. M says:

    Asian Americans are largely still the second generation after the FOBs, from a population of striving, upwardly focused migrants, who are very competitive for the highest levels of status. They’re overrepresented at high status, are overrepresented in both test scores (which would already be high due to IQ), and overrepresented in the level of their applications to elite colleges relative to test scores (with their only, slight, underrepresentation, being in acceptance relative to application rate, with elite colleges, for their part, apparently not seeing it as their business to cater solely and totally to the obsessively striving from a demographically unrepresentative sample, however smart).

    (Now, as a group they’re not necessarily especially interested in achieving anything particularly interesting or useful, as opposed to Making It Big, but hey, it sometimes goes with the elite territory, so arguably a good minority to have around, if you can deal with the oft irritating striving).

    They’re not totally dissimilar from the similar populations of striving African migrants, or East European migrants really. But those guys can’t play the “True, we’re already overrepresented at the highest levels of status, and yes we’re already way more visible in media than in everyday life, but… still, I say the highest levels of status and media are too White / Black anyway, so… Gizza job. I want. I want.” game.

  7. Immigrant from former USSR [AKA "Florida Resident"] says:

    Excellent post by Mr. D.
    Congratulations !
    I would like to mention the aspect of the problem, covered by Steve Sailer:
    Chinese cheating.

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/06/chinese-cheating.html

    and his other posts on the subject.
    To the best of my (quite limited) observations,
    there is no notion of “nobless oblige” among that minority,
    as well among other successful minorities.

    • Replies: @jimmyriddle
    , @rod1963
  8. Truth says:

    That’s why you’re so popular around her, Derb; You use every opportunity to mash your in-laws faces into the wall, but Reed reveres his like the Virgin Marry appeared in one of Mom’s tortillas.

  9. I’m left handed (orentationally disadvantaged). I didn’t chose to be OD. I was born that way. How am I supposed to maintain any self esteem when I am stigmatized by terms like “lefty” or “south paw”. If my right hand is right does that mean my left hand is wrong? The right handed majority has no idea how I suffered in the army with all that left right left right left right left. I don’t want your pity. Just send me a monthly check. (sark off)

    Derb gets this part “right”

    …. let every individual live in freedom under equal laws equally applied, letting the statistical chips fall where they may.

    But for our Ruling Class, of course, that is of course too horrible to contemplate.

    Our Ruling Class is not stupid. It uses all of its power and privilege to keep us divided against one another lest we unite (left and right?) against them. If you are among the 99.9% don’t take the bait. We all have much more in common with one another than we do with the .01% who rule over us.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  10. jtgw says: • Website
    @Astuteobservor II

    The point is that, in progressive thought, the racial make-up of an Ivy League university should match the make-up of the whole population. So if Asians are 5% of the whole population, they should make up 5% of the student body of Harvard. The fact that up to 15%-20% of the student body is Asian means they are already overrepresented, and so have no grounds on which to complain of discrimination, since they are already so favored. Of course, according to meritocratic thought, Asians should be 40-50%, while blacks should be maybe 1%.

  11. D. K. says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    According to Mr. Unz’ own statistics, in that famous article, it is the non-Hispanic White-gentile majority that is the most underrepresented racial/ethnic group in the Ivy League, based on merit, not the so-called “Asians” (as asinine of a “racial” grouping ever to come down the proverbial pike)! So, whom exactly should your put-upon “model minority” actually be hating?!?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Henry
  12. Gene Su says:

    Mr. Derb, I don’t get the point of your article.
    Should we get rid of “quotas” so that more Asians can move upward so that they won’t “whine” as much?
    Should we “adjust quotas” so that more Asians can get into first tier universities and senior executive positions?

  13. AndrewR says:
    @WorkingClass

    What if im in the top .1% but not the top .01%??

    • Replies: @WorkingClass
  14. Romanian says:
    @jtgw

    How does fairness jive with Whites being +40% of the Harvard population when they are 67% of the total population? Or with Jews being +20 percentage points of that, despite being 2-3% of the population. Meaning the American population that used to be +90% of your country just a few decades ago is now only around 20% of the Harvard population, squeezed by very successful minorities on one side and by affirmative action cases on the other.

    It was all in that article by Ron Unz, you just had to get past the Asian bits.

    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

    • Replies: @jtgw
  15. jtgw says: • Website
    @Romanian

    That all depends on what you think is “fair”. While a private educational institution can use whatever admissions criteria it likes, as far as I’m concerned, I would say that a “fair” university admissions system should be based on academic merit alone, since that is the point of the institution, after all: to educate. So the racial makeup of the student body should be a function of the overall demographic proportion of the race and that race’s relative academic aptitude. Since Jews and Asians are smarter than white gentiles, one would rightly expect more of them than their demographic proportions warrant. Blacks and Hispanics, on the other hand, being dumber than other races on average, should make up less of the student body than their demographic proportions warrant.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    , @dahoit
  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I am a seasoned HBD student and I’m thoroughly familiar with the literature…

    I’m married to an Ivy League-educated East Asian woman in a very prestigious STEM career. After many years of marriage I can say that I believe the .5+ SD and the better results (vs. whites) on psychometric tests is due to behavior, specifically the ability to focus and doggedness in pursuing an objective. A lot like Jews. OTOH, I know a lot of whites with scintillating intellects who get bored pretty quickly with things like psychometric tests and/or school.

  17. MEH 0910 says:

    Nicholas Kristof writing in The New York Times: The Asian Advantage

    THIS is an awkward question, but here goes: Why are Asian-Americans so successful in America?

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    , @Jim
  18. @jtgw

    haahahha, that is about as racists as it gets :) what you wrote is essentially affirmative action :) not meritocracy. AA 100% discriminates every group that isn’t part of the target demographic of AA.

    • Replies: @jtgw
  19. MEH 0910 says:
    @MEH 0910

    Of course what follows in that piece by Kristof is Blank Slatism.

  20. @D. K.

    their spots got taken by the 1% jews. don’t blame the asians.

    why are you trying to conclude ron’s article when he already did so? the only way to make it fair for the top 1% of students is to have a lottery system with a certain percentage preserved for the truly gifted, about 10-15%

    • Replies: @D. K.
  21. jtgw says: • Website
    @Astuteobservor II

    What are you babbling about? Why should the races have equal academic aptitude? If one race is smarter on average than another, then you’d expect them to make up more of the student body than their proportion of the overall proportion would warrant.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  22. iffen says:

    the yellowing parchment

    I find new respect for your ability to zero in upon the nexus of the argument.

  23. D. K. says:
    @jtgw

    As I stated above, but obviously need to reiterate: based upon Mr. Unz’ own statistics, from his famous article, we of the non-Hispanic White-gentile majority, not those in the laughably contrived “Asian” category, are the ones most underrepresented in the Ivy League’s admissions– based upon merit alone, per Mr. Unz’ stated criteria, as laid out in that article! If you think that “Asians” who comprise about 5% of the resident population of the United States should dominate Ivy League admissions over the more than 60% of our population that remains, after fifty years of mostly Third World mass immigration, non-Hispanic White-gentile, based on a few-points difference in median IQs for the two groups, then you need to double down on your Statistics studies, and then plot the two IQ curves, based on the roughly dozen-to-one ratio of our respective populations. In addition to which, since the so-called “Asians” have a strong preference for STEM majors, the Ivy League schools would need to change the very nature of their universities, if they were to become (even more) dominated by “Asian” applicants, turning themselves into polytechnical universities, while greatly downsizing the liberal arts and humanities departments upon which those schools were largely based.

    • Replies: @jtgw
  24. The story I like is that the Chinese became today’s hard workers because feudalism broke down 1,000 years earlier in China than in Europe. Chinese farmers divided their land between their sons, so with more than one son a farmer had to work hard buying more land so each inheriting son would have enough land to wive and thrive.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  25. @jtgw

    my babbling was on your progressive thought :) how you think the student body should be divided by population percentage :) and calling it stupid :) need more?

    • Replies: @Kim Kardashian
  26. @AndrewR

    Occupy Wall Street spoke of the ninety and the ten. I just spoke of the ninety nine and nine tenths. If I were to speak of the few and the many you might ask how few? How many? Obviously there are limitations to defining the ruling class by the relative quantity of their wealth. I prefer to speak of the working class and the ruling class but Americans are confused by the very notion of class distinctions. No. I don’t know how many Americans are confused. Nor do I know how many are only slightly confused and whether they should be counted among the confused or the un-confused.

    Do you believe there is any such thing as a ruling class?
    If so – are you a member?

  27. D. K. says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    “why are you trying to conclude ron’s article when he already did so?”

    Despite my many university degrees, including a B.A. in English (and History), I honestly do not understand what you are asking!?! Ron Unz’ article laid out the statistics– based upon his own stated criteria and assumptions– and graphed them. That Mr. Unz was more worked up over “Asians” losing out to his fellow Jews, in Ivy League admissions, than he was about us non-Hispanic White gentiles obviously getting the shorter end of the Ivy League’s admissions stick is neither here nor there; it merely shows us his own bias. According to his article, however, my own type, which still comprises a large majority of the resident population of the United States, and an even larger majority of its actual citizens, is markedly more discriminated against, in purely meritocratic terms, than are the supposedly put-upon “Asians” who are so publicly whining, these days, about their unbearable oppression. We also are grossly underrepresented demographically, in the Ivy League, whereas “Asians” are grossly over-represented, there, demographically. If someone wants to dispute the statistics in Mr. Unz’ famous article– a la our beloved summa cum laude Harvard alumna in Physics, Nurit Baytch– then fine; but, accepting his statistics, arguendo, whose bull is being mostly deeply gored academically is baldly obvious: the majority population’s!

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  28. @Immigrant from former USSR

    “there is no notion of “nobless oblige” among that minority,
    as well among other successful minorities.”

    After W’s and Mitt’s shameless draft-dodging you’d have to include WASPs in that list of minorities.

  29. @jtgw

    Of course, according to meritocratic thought, Asians should be 40-50%, while blacks should be maybe 1%.

    How is the Lucky Sperm Club “meritocratic”?

    There is a stronger case for legacy WASPS– they get in not on their own merit, but on their families’. Families that founded and built the schools.

    Any Chinaman could understand that!

  30. @D. K.

    I apologize, I misread your first comment :) I think I sort of jumbled my thoughts and reactions from another comment :)

    “it is the non-Hispanic White-gentile majority that is the most underrepresented racial/ethnic group in the Ivy League, based on merit, not the so-called “Asians””

    I would also like to add that both the above group and asians are victims. cause by affirmative action and jews.

  31. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The problem is the official principle is that places should accord with percentage of the population whereas in reality that rule doesn’t apply to Jews.

    So you can see why Asians might be annoyed at the double standard.

    However it’s not a moral argument to say the glaring double standard regarding Jews should be repeated for them; it’s simply a racial spoils argument. The moral argument would be say it should be all merit or all percentages with no special treatment for Jews.

    On the other hand although I don’t think they’re making a moral argument I don’t think “whining” is an accurate way of describing it either. The version of America where it would be whining i.e. one based on commonweal, is being hacked to pieces and the new version will be a straightforward racial spoils version where if people from your group aren’t in the admissions / hiring positions then you won’t get the place / job. So given that white people failed to maintain the commonweal version of America then the only sensible option for Asians is to start jockeying for position in the new America.

    You don’t have to like it but from their point of view it is the only logical strategy.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Bill
  32. @Anonymous

    My psychologist (i’m not really really mad, just because i like to talk with people with similar interests) told me that when people internalize a truth/fact they need

    - accept/act

    or

    - suffer

    I think there is a little piece of truth in its sentence.

    the overgeneralization about comparisons between ”east asians” (read chineses, japaneses, south koreans and some vietman ;) ) and ”whites or europeans” (read all caucasian populations) seems wrong and tendentious by many perspectives.

    If we understand east asians label as ”the purest among mongoloid races” then the same should be used for ”whites”. The really correct comparison should be ”teuto-british-nordic subraces” and ”NORTHeast asian subraces”.

    By comparison, southern europeans look like genetically as southeast asians, specially vietnamits, thais and burmanians while non-european caucasoids should be racially and by analogy with indonesians, phillipines and malaysians.

    So ”average iq” of ”whites” will be different than current/official mean.

    Iq ALONE is used to legitimate part of unfair or bureaucratic meritocracy

    those who are good to persevere and conform inside the ”meritocratic” system will be recompensed.

    Those — will be more ethical or morally correct (and not politically ”correct”, sorry)**
    Those —- will be on average, more creative** wise*

    The simple fact that many young east asians even with its economy growing and with complete modern societies, need study in western universities may tell us some unzconvenient truth that don’t corroborate with the east asian cognitive supremacy myth.

    Is okay or reasonable when you live in a poor/problematic country, being a (cognitive) minority and have the imperious necessity to immigrate, but seems ilogic when you live in a very good country with all tools for create their own prestigious academic centers but this universities don’t exist.

    Why south koreans and chineses can’t create soo good universities like in US in their respective countries**
    Why they can’t immigrate to Japan so*

    Enormous evidences that non-jewish native white european americans are suffering with discrimination in higher education. What other evidences you want more**

    And look evident, obvious that ”jews” are fighting agains waves of east asians students who are threaten their demographic prevalence among ”elite nurseries”.

    The problem is not because a certain people have greater power, is how they use it.

    • Replies: @Seck
  33. @anon

    this is so good, nail it. bravo.

  34. @Astuteobservor II

    ” I would not blame any asian harboring hate for how they are treated.”

    People come to our nation (yes OUR inasmuch as two trunks of my family tree have been here since the 1630′s) and expect/demand to have equal access to the institutions of higher learning, Federal funding and world-class laboratories as though it were their God-given right to move in on these spaces. Why do they presume that they deserve such? They didn’t build those laboratories in our institutions of higher learning. Those that were not privately funded were paid for by taxpayers.

    And furthermore, is it really so surprising that Jews garner 30 to 40% on Nobel prizes in science when they take up 30 to 40% of the lab bench space in Ivy League schools? Space that they didn’t create but which they gladly appropriate, to the detriment of our native stock? Or put another way, would Jews garner so many rewards if they were a smaller proportion of students in Ivy League science labs? We all know that the answer is “No, they wouldn’t”. Space in world class labs is a zero-sum game.

  35. foo9 says:

    Regardless of academic or any other achievements, Chinamen are basically an alien plague upon any Western country. They should be kept out on purely aesthetic grounds, they looks like insects..utterly alien.

    I’ll note in passing that this Derbyshire author is an omega male who married a chinawoman because as an omega couldn’t get any normal western woman to give him the time of day..

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @5371
    , @AndrewR
  36. I guess to the ‘pro diversity’ according to the left doesn’t apply to high-achieving minorities. That’s why they keep spreading misinformation about a china Bubble and why the left wants chooses Islam over Israel, feminism over masculinity.

  37. Chinaman, Schminanman. Prolonged, ever-increasing Perpetual Mass Third World Imminvasion has put millions of chinks in our armor.

  38. @Threecranes

    the problem boils down to: too many smart people and not enough slots for all of them based on merit.

    The solution is less credentialism, or dramatically expand enrollment for all the top schools

    • Replies: @iffen
  39. @Christopher Chantrill

    Didn’t Ron Unz write something about that over 30 years ago? I am not sure about the reference to feudalism but the having to buy more land rings a bell.

  40. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @foo9

    I’ll note in passing that this Derbyshire author is an omega male who married a chinawoman because as an omega couldn’t get any normal western woman to give him the time of day…

    Have you seen pictures of Derbyshire’s wife? Then look at Derbyshire. There is no way he could get an equivalently attractive white woman with his looks and not being rich. White guys can get way out of their league with East Asian women.

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
  41. Anonymou says:

    Not quite sure what the point of this article is. Yes Asians are trapped by a politically correct dogma that goes against their interest. But why not fight against it? Aren’t you, a white man, also whining when you harp against affirmative action that goes against whites?

    The Ivy League clearly discriminates against Asians as Unz has proven on this very site. So you may not like Asians trying to get theirs, but that is the America we live in today. Get over it.

    I think this is just sour grapes as you were probably hoping this article was going to be on how disadvantaged whites are.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  42. In order to prop up the status quo, the group known as Asian American, has to keep quiet and become the pet of the majority white mans’ illusory hold on the greater public and that sublimates the Asian America’s quest for independence. Now that the hold has been broken, Asians in America have become accustomed to this yoke so when they break out, they feel out of place despite their success. Based on my persual of the commnetary on high IQ on this site and the superiority of the benefits of said IQ, one would think that there would be more Asian Americans holding on to the reins of US industry or even become President of this great nations called USA, and oven more generals in the Army (isn’t that what high IQ gets yeh?)

    Listening to the alleged superiority of a high IQ, I expected a Chinese or a Japanese President before a mixed heritage one! If a statistical output of data were shown, the Chinese or Japanese potential candidate would have to fall in the sample size of having a relative sharing the identity of 80-90% range of previous Presidents of USA. That being said, high IQs will never count as part of said criteria, Then you have those Asian groups who fall outside the japanese/Chinese sample size (like Vietnamese, Cambodians, Hmong, etc) who are not even in the running for comparative IQ analyses generation.

    Keep in mind the the allusion of passivity does wonders for the white man’s ego (nothing wrong with choice) while saying that the explosive and realiatory behavior of the darker brothers is a threat to the status quo also, but that can easily be handled without much effort if the game isn’t played out!

    • Replies: @D. K.
  43. Retired says:

    They are whiners, and smarter and harder working on average than whites. But they lack verbal and people skills (EQ if you will) In my long experience in the working world of Sili Valley the lack of “soft skills” hobbles their performance and promotions.

    I don’t blame schools for setting ceilings on asian admits. How many library dwelling eggheads can you have before you gut the school of its humanity? See Cal Tech or UC Irvine.

    There is more to a man than his SAT score

    • Replies: @Jim
    , @Seck
  44. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Ron Unz needs to hire a real Mexican.

    Anonymou, you’re an idiot. Not an ad hominem just an observation of fact. The point is that the refusal of multi racial societies to recognize biological differences among races leads to absurdities, waste, and conflict. East Asians are held back by quotas (egalitarian discrimination) because their academic performance is superior to the American mean. Therefore their overrepresentation at academic institutions is to be expected. Their underrepresentation in leadership positions on the other hand is not due to (supremacist) discrimination (the bamboo ceiling) but to their different mean behavioral traits in comparison to other racial groups that put them at a disadvantage in leadership positions. If this does not it clear it up, I can explain it using finger paints at your cost. Please don’t go full retard on me and retort by saying that race is just a social construct.

    And people think us Mexicans are stupid, LOL.

    • Replies: @thinkingabout it
  45. D. K. says:
    @Anonymou

    Did you even read Mr. Unz’ article? If you did, then you should have noted that we non-Hispanic White gentiles are, according to his own statistics, the group most discriminated against, in the Ivy League’s admissions, based solely on merit– let alone demographically! Apparently you, like Mr. Unz himself, see only what you want to see, and disregard the rest!?! “The Boxer” is smiling, ruefully….

  46. 5371 says:
    @foo9

    Sneering on the internet that a pundit doesn’t have a wife? Already the hallmark of a loser.
    Sneering that he does have a wife but she isn’t hot? An even bigger loser.
    Sneering that she’s hot but it doesn’t count ‘coz something or other? The biggest loser of all.

  47. Jim says:
    @Retired

    In verbal IQ Northeast Asians may be slightly below Northwest Europeans but the difference is pretty small, maybe about 2-3 points. In spatial/quantitative IQ Northeast Asians have about a 10 point advantage over Northwest Europeans.

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
  48. Jim says:
    @Anonymous

    All behavioral traits including such things as conscientiousness, persistence and attention span are significantly to substantially genetic. Peter Frost had an interesting recent blog on the tendency of Northeast Asians to be less prone to boredom. On the other hand the psychometric data is quite clear that Northeast Asians and Ashkenazi Jews are superior to gentile Europeans in intelligence. Nevertheless no matter how much data is accumulated on these matters people seek out convoluted explainations that what looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck is really a gorilla in a duck suit.

  49. Jim says:
    @MEH 0910

    The obvious explaination is that the evolutionary history of Northeast Asians has resulted in them being very well adapted to complex, hierarchial societies such as they have lived in for over 3500 years.

  50. nanashi says:

    Has any study been done on the statistical distribution of intelligence of races divided by sex? I’ve always got an impression that East Asian women tend to be clearly more intelligent than European women, but the difference between males seems less salient.

    • Replies: @M
  51. Really- says:
    @jimmyriddle

    Sir: George W. Bush flew flying coffins, er, bleeding edge jet aircraft like the F-102 Delta Dagger. What have you done in service of your country (this one, I assume) that is so formidable that you should open your mouth about another man’s honorable service?

    About Mitt Romney I know nothing but apparently he fulfilled whatever obligations he had.

    BTW, of the current contenders on either side of the primaries, who has veteran status? Rick Perry–oops. Webb? Ahahahahahahahahahhahahaha…yeah he looked good on that stage, in fine company.

    Should we have the draft back?

  52. What is the average IQ of a Chinese peasant? Are they included in IQ studies on the Chinese?

    • Replies: @Beach
    , @Jim
  53. M says:
    @nanashi

    No difference in IQ tests afaik.

    Certainly, no difference established between White men and White women,so mathematically you can’t have White men and Asian men the same, unless Asian women are by far the smartest of all these four sex+race combinations.

  54. Some of you guys need to head over to La Griffe du Lion’s website and peruse the articles about the relative distributions of scores on the far right end of the bell curve. He uses the same general reasoning in all the articles. Keep at it till you get it.

    Once more into the breech. The gist of it is this. Although it may be true that both Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese have higher (on average) IQs, it does not follow from this that they will dominate all positions that demand high intelligence in our society. And the reason is because there are so few of them relative to white Europeans. </b

    So, once more. No one denies that the Chinese are comparatively brighter but their relatively meager few representatives are completely swamped by the sheer number of high IQ whites due to the fact that whites outnumber Chinese by 15:1 and Jews by 25:1.

    So please, incorporate this into your body of learning and after reflection and reconsideration acknowledge the pointlessness of some of the comments you have made. It's the only way forward.

    • Agree: Travis
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Santoculto
  55. D. K. says:
    @jack shindo

    Do you know the constitutional requirements for serving as president of the United States, Jack? What portion of the Americans eligible to serve as president– beginning on January 20, 2017, let alone at any earlier date– will be Chinese- or Japanese-Americans? Which outstanding potential candidates of Chinese or Japanese descent are currently being overlooked because of racist-White domination of American society, in general, and of our political system, in particular? As simply a practical matter, Jack, what is an acceptable IQ range for an American to be elected president? Of all of those Americans constitutionally eligible to run for president, in this election cycle, who fall within your own acceptable IQ range for that position, Jack, what portion of them are of Chinese or Japanese descent? Considering the demographic history of the United States, to date, and the fact that only 43 of us Americans ever have served as president of the United States– some of whom never even were elected to that office, before or after their attaining it (with one of those, Gerald R. Ford, never having been on a winning presidential ticket, at all!)– how surprising, let alone shocking or scandalous, is it, Jack, that none of those 43 men (sorry, ladies!), to date, have been of Chinese or Japanese descent? Can you give us a ballpark estimate on that, Jack, or should I go find myself a racist-White middle-schooler who can run the numbers for you? Moving beyond the otherworldly IQ distribution of native-born Americans who are both middle-aged or older and of Chinese or Japanese descent, Jack, should we move on to the distribution of traits other than IQ that just might be relevant to someone’s practical fitness to serve as president of the United States, or should we just assume the natural all-around superiority of Chinese- and Japanese-Americans for such a position, compared to the current descendents of our nation’s own Founding Fathers, and their fellow indigenous-European countrymen?

    • Replies: @jack shindo
  56. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Threecranes

    while East Asians have slightly higher IQs than Europeans…South Asians have been shown to have similar , if not lower, IQs than whites and have historically been considered caucasian based on their Skull and skeletal structure being more similar to Europeans.

    while “Asians” are now 5.5% of the US population , just 40% of them are East Asian.
    thus only 2% of the US population consists of East Asians, similar to our Jewish population.

    60% of the Asians in the US are South Asian and Southeast Asian (3.4 million Filipinos alone)

    thus Whites still outnumber East Asians by closer to 25 to 1.

    are 22% of the Harvard students East Asian ? or is it closer to 12% ? with 10% South and Southeast Asian ?

    • Replies: @Threecranes
    , @Jim
  57. foo9 says:

    South Asians have been shown to have similar , if not lower, IQs than whites and have historically been considered caucasian based on their Skull and skeletal structure being more similar to Europeans.

    Many south “Asians” aren’t “similar” to Europeans, they *are* Europeans (Indo-European/”Aryan” to be exact, with Indo specifically meaning India).

    Australians for example, aren’t Pacific Islanders (they are Caucasians), even though Australia is in the Pacific.
    Similarly South “Asians” aren’t..they are either Aryans (500 million in number), Dravidian (500 million or such as well) and about a 100 million or so Aboriginals (Afroids).

    Asians (more accurately called “Mongoloids”) have an alien language in which they “draw” pictures of things, there is no alphabet traditionally. They have no real poems, or epics or corpus of literature or art that appears as such to any Indo-European person. Even the mongoloid “religions” are entirely external/copied (a) Buddhism (i.e. Indian religion by Indian Gautam Buddha written in an Indo-European language, Sanskrit) or in modern day Korea, Christianity (again a Middle Eastern religion with no gods/angels/anything that have any Mongoloid aspects). I’ve always wondered if Koreans think there are any Mongoloids in Christian heaven, certainly there isn’t any description of anyone that looks like them in the Bible they adopt.

    Given all this, how intelligent does anyone think they are ? Sure, they copy like ants but never create anything that the rest of the world considers or adopts, from antiquity to the present day. They on the other hand, are desperate to be Indo-Europeans or Westerners, epicanthic fold surgery for Mongoloid eyes is huge in Asia (and zero in reverse).

    • Replies: @random observer
  58. Does it really matter what immigrant/non-white IQs are? America was fine pre-1965, and European Christian civilization has a pretty impressive history. In a balkanized nation, intelligent immigrants can be more trouble that dumb immigrants. How hard is that to figure out?

    • Replies: @Travis
  59. This is the problem with meritocracy, it’s unnatural and unstable. People favor their own by nature. Meritocracy will always lapse into hereditary aristocracy unless the tendency is aggressively opposed.

  60. @Anonymous

    Thank you for taking the trouble to dig that up.

  61. Travis says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    the higher IQ of East Asians partly explains why ~12% of the Ivey League students are East Asian although they comprise just 2% of the US Population

    but there is little to explain why South Asians are close to 7% of the top schools when their average IQ is equal to white Americans and they are just 1% of the US population.

    from the numbers it appears both East Asians and South Asians have learned how to game our education system and thus they are over-represented in our top universities.

    • Replies: @Seck
    , @Francis G.
  62. @Threecranes

    Power positions is a proxy for higher intelligence but doesn’t implies h intellig per si. Personality, social/familiar privilege, social network, special contextual circumstances and motivations Always have a role more than Just “intelligence”.

  63. Seck says:
    @Santoculto

    Why south koreans and chineses can’t create soo good universities like in US in their respective countries**
    Why they can’t immigrate to Japan so*

    Here we need to break it down what actually constitutes “A good University”? By essence, university is where younger adults merge into micro-societal like classroom where they interact each other, discuss topics of interest, perform duties, and learn the worldly events. The better the university, the more they can absorb learning materials. Now let’s ask do East Asian Universities fulfill those societal like duties?

    You can bet they do. Those graduates become focused on how they should fill in the hierarchical orders of society. They work hard, sometimes even to their detriment of becoming a robot. If Universities fail to educate young people, you’d see massive shooting and massacre from time to time.

    When we talk about “Good Universities”, we always associate “good” with making progress in STEM fields. Making progress or discoveries, innovation, is not as easy as one might expect from “Good Universities”.

    Now let’s say when we talk about Western Universities, do we even care “University of Liverpool”? or “Bradford University” from UK? Or maybe some unknown universities from UK, France, Germany? or Are we basically associating good universities with “Famous, Elite Universities” from the Western countries?

    So when we break down those Elite universities discovering, innovating new things, you can bet that Stanford University beat Glasgow university any day. East Asians will choose Ivy Leagues rather than Imperial College, UCL in a heart beat.

    Innovations, new discoveries have been largely attributed to Elite Universities in the West. Not anyhow universities across the entire countries. Those elite universities have already established their foundations over centuries. Why do you think they do retain those so-called “Emeritus Professorship” in their respective departments? They are basically serving as database power house accumulating knowledge, information over their life time. Either they are useful or not, you need some luck and working environments.

    If you need an example, look at “Sydney Brenner” A South African by birth, a Jewish White by race. Where did he achieve his scientific acumen? Did he achieve Nobel Prize from South Africa?

    The bottom line is established universities to foster your scientific career do not constitute “Good Universities.” They are “Elite universities” and they established themselves over centuries.

    Now looking at the recent Nobel Prize in Physics, Medicines, Japan has been racking up quite a lot.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  64. Seck says:

    @John Derby,

    Your title is misleading. Whining carries negative connotation as in when someone whines about why they do not receive what they deserve but in reality they do not deserve whatsoever.

    Asian Americans do not whine about Ivy League admission. Asian Americans call for Fair admission criteria for merit-based institutions.

    Now let’s say you go to a local bank, and want to withdraw $1000 from your checking account. $1000 you have in your balance. The bank teller told you that since you just deposited your $1000 last week, you cannot withdraw $1000. Besides, since you do not have a saving account at the bank, it’s unlikely that you will ever come back and deposit your money into their coffer.

    OTOH, your neighbor who just happen to be a millionaire goes to the same bank, wanted to withdraw $1000 from his account. The teller easily let him withdraw what amount of money he wanted from his account. Besides, it’s also possible that the millionaire happens to have his savings account in the bank.

    So when you get back home, would you keep whining why the bank won’t let you withdraw your money?

    The criteria that the bank have in their policy, maybe nebulous, sometimes hidden, play against your favor. You did nothing wrong. You played by the rules. The fact of the matter here is the nebulous criteria whatever they want to apply frustrate you, piss you, and eat you alive. Would you sit tight and won’t complain?

    Do Asian Americans complain or whine on CA universities? what happens when all of CA universities remove their race based quota system? Asian applicants skyrocketed in their respective departments. Does this also relate to why we’re seeing almost all CA universities (Private and Public), Berkeley, Stanford, LA, SF, SD, Irvine, Barbara, …. rank high in the global universities ranking?

    Count the number of Universities from New York state that rank high in the global ranking. Buffalo university? University of Syracuse? Binghamton university?

    Yes, right, Cornell, Columbia, New York.

    Look at the student compositions in those universities. Whenever you see Asians, you’d bet their ranking also goes up. And you wonder why Asians populations at the Ivies miraculously declined from 20% to 16% over the years. Is it because Asians/Asian Americans become dumb and couldn’t catch up with the Ivies admission?

    Give me a break. Asian Americans are not whining. Instead you are.

  65. Seck says:
    @Retired

    Your future Engineers will keep talking to you how marvelous his idea is, how high his skyscraper would be, while you’re salivating his scintillating discourse, your next neighbor is already living like a king in his sturdy steel protected mansion.

    There is more to a man than his verbosity.

  66. Seck says:
    @Travis

    Dig up the South Asians ethnicity and you’d see why.

    Chinese from Indonesia, goes by Indonesian names.
    Chinese from Burma goes by Burmese names.
    Chinese from Vietnam goes by Vietnamese names.
    Chinese from Thailand goes by Thai names.

    Once they got the American citizenship, they swiftly change their names back to Anglo-Chinese surname.

    Clear?

    • Replies: @Tony
    , @Threecranes
    , @Travis
  67. Tony says:
    @Seck

    He’s talking about south asians, not southeastern asians, which means indians.

  68. denk says:

    foo9
    *Many south “Asians” aren’t “similar” to Europeans, they *are* Europeans (Indo-European/”Aryan” to be exact, with Indo specifically meaning India).

    Australians for example, aren’t Pacific Islanders (they are Caucasians), even though Australia is in the Pacific.
    Similarly South “Asians” aren’t..they are either Aryans (500 million in number), Dravidian (500 million or such as well) and about a 100 million or so Aboriginals (Afroids).*

    perhaps foo the great anthropologist could enlighten us how did the *seven sisters*, the seven states in northern india where the indigenous are all mongoloids, ended up in the india union ???

    http://www.countercurrents.org/samar171014.htm

    why do the heartlanders call these northeasterners *chinki faced terrorists*, why do the NE folks call the heartlanders *aliens* ?

    why do these NE folks encounter racial and sexual assaults not only in their own land but all across india, by the army , by the heartlanders themselves ???

    http://newint.org/features/1994/06/05/keynote/

    • Replies: @Jim
  69. @Seck

    “Clear?”

    No.

    Why don’t you try the following thought experiment:

    China has a population of 1,357,000000 people, the USA: 312,000,000.

    The landmass of China is 9,572,670 square kilometers; that of the USA: 9,526,468.

    The population density of China is 142 persons per square kilometer; that of the USA: 32.8.

    Therefore, in the interests of just apportionment of population density the USA should be forced to accept 522,500,000 Chinese, which would result in a density of 87.4 persons per square kilometer for both.

    What is not “clear” to us is why we should accept this? What’s in it for us? And why would anyone consider it to be morally righteous for the USA to do this?

    So by the same reasoning, why should we accept any Chinese immigrants in our Universities? What’s in it for us? And who confuses this with moral goodness?

    • Replies: @Seck
  70. Beach says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Shhh, you’re not supposed to mention them. China is one gigantic Lake Woebegon, where every child is above average. You’re not supposed to notice these kids, either:

    With their excellent English skills, there is no chance whatsoever that they’ve gamed their way in to American universities. No one else wrote their application essays for them, either; nothing but pure merit is on display.

  71. haha, so many racist morons :)

  72. @Threecranes

    The problem is that this country is sold explicitly as being a meritocratic haven. Asians are enticed to come into this country with the expectation that if they work hard and are the best at what they do, Harvard and Yale will throw open their doors to them.

    Plus, the Asians who are complaining were born here. Again, America explicitly states that if you’re born here, you are considered as much a citizen as anyone whose family tree has been here since the 1600s.

    Saudi Arabia has high salaries and plenty of job opportunities. As do the UAE, Qatar and Oman. Why don’t elite Asians want to migrate there instead? Because there is an explicit state policy in the Middle East that says that natives will be given preferential treatment over immigrants.

    It’s a bait and switch. America’s reality doesn’t live up to its advertisements, which is why Asians are angry.

    • Replies: @Threecranes
    , @anowow
  73. Asians in the US get many of the same undue diversity privileges as Afro-blacks.

    Diversity scheme experts lecture people that Asians are eternally oppressed by occidentals.

    1. Preferential US immigration, citizenship, and asylum policies for Asian people
    2. 8a set-aside government contracts for Asian owned businesses
    3. Affirmative Action for Asians especially in government jobs
    4. Government anti-discrimination laws for Asians
    4. Government hate speech prosecution for protected classes, including Asians
    5. Sanctuary cities for Asians, and other protected classes
    6. Asian industrial espionage directed at the US is very common
    7. American policy allows mass importation of Asian products built with slave labor

    • Replies: @map
  74. @Anonymous

    “leadership” is a nebulous and nonsensical term.
    The bamboo ceiling involves promotions being given to good ol boys instead of people who keep their heads down and work hard, merely because the good ol boys are better at schmoozing with the boss.
    That’s not meritocracy, that’s a quasi-aristocracy, where you’re given goodies because of your connections.

  75. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    It is the same old story. Every one wants to be treated fairly but to few want to treat others fairly. Where are the black, Jews and Latinos?? Why aren’t they coming to the defense of the mistreated Asians?? Do they like the benefits too much to speak out?? What does that say about their character??

    • Replies: @Jim
  76. Truth says:
    @Beach

    I’m getting the feeling you have green eyes, Beach:

    • Replies: @Beach
  77. @Seck

    When i talk about east asians i always separates japanese people (on average) from continental northeast asians, they *seems* are really discrepant.

    Yes i know that the most important universities in west tend to be ”elite” universities but a lot of east asian students ”need” immigrate to west… why not finish its studies in own home**

    My (partial) tip

    because *most* (and not almost) of greater scientific innovations is happening ”here”(the west”)

    • Replies: @Seck
  78. “Chinaman.” That word had been declared taboo at some point in the later 20th century by whomever it is that gets to declare these things …

    In this case, I that “whomever” was Walter Sobchak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vGK008c_rA

  79. @thinkingabout it

    Speaking personally, I agree with everything you’ve said and speaking even more personally, I like Asians. They are model citizens and engaging persons. At the risk of sounding defensive, there is written testimony (by an Asian author) to my family’s having stuck up for Asian’s access to prestigious employment post WW2 and there’s more, but let’s lay that aside.

    But, see “Speaking for all American’s” argument above.

    At what point does America say “Enough is enough”? Demographically, the Chinese can overwhelm us and what becomes of our characteristically European institutions then? So, speaking impersonally, I am concerned about unchecked immigration from all quarters. Theoretically, we could admit all the brilliant minds that China produces but there are so many intelligent Chinese that they could swamp our prestigious colleges “boats”. But then we would no longer be America, would we?

    When does a change in quantity become a change in quality?

    (quality used here in the sense that the Medieval philosophers used it i.e. at what point does a change in what appears to be an incidental attribute of an object become a change in the essential nature of that object?)

    Although the amount of precipitation varies continuously over the globe, at some point a climate morphs from what is experienced as “moderate” to one labeled “rain forest”. Aside from obvious differences in fauna and flora, the two have very different feels to human beings and create different lifestyles. Change in quantity of a variable has resulted in qualitative differences.

    Unfortunately, the persons making these decisions are neither particularly bright, well educated, and widely read nor do they have a vast body of practical experience with which they can critically assess their half-baked theories. They are shooting from the hip. They really don’t know the outcome of their little social experiments. They are motivated by a religious zeal. They have ever been among us and we live in the rubble of their past failures. They stumble from one act of carnage to another while we struggle to assemble a coherent world from the pieces they leave in their wake. A metaphor for what they accomplished in Iraq would be to to smash a vase and then measure the resulting bits and shards and announce that no harm had been done as no mass had been lost. They lack the ability to view the coherence of things as constituting their very nature. Their approach is Atomistic. They cannot fathom how the field generates the realm of possibility within which objects materialize. They believe that if only they can only discern the logic of the Rule that regulates the interaction of this particle (or citizen) with that one that, armed with this, they can create a coherent whole. The revolutions that rocked physics in the early 20th century have failed to trickle down to our social scientists, economists and politicians.

  80. Jim says:
    @denk

    Linguistic classifications are not identical to genetic classifications. The genetics of the world’s populations is a pretty complex subject. While it is true that the peoples of the Indian subcontinent are generally genetically closer to Europeans than they are to Northeast Asians, it doesn’t make much sense to call them “Europeans”.

    The term “Aryan” is often used in a very imprecise way and also has developed all kinds of rather bizaare connatations so it’s probably best not to use it. If one does insist on using it the best usuage is as a linguistic term synoymous with “Indo-Iranian”.

  81. @Anonymous

    Have you seen pictures of Derbyshire’s wife? Then look at Derbyshire. There is no way he could get an equivalently attractive white woman with his looks and not being rich. White guys can get way out of their league with East Asian women.

    Come on, this is nonsense. Derb could have easily gotten an attractive American or homely English wife. The problem is that the American women are often nuts. Either whackjob Hillary fangirls who absorbed Oprah’s BS for decades or nutty cat women or some other kind of nut. The good American girls are captured before age 30. The English girls, well, I’ve yet to see any worth chasing. The Chinese or Japanese chicks offer femininity with an eagerness to submit to masculine will domestically. They’re usually fit even if many are built like ten year old boys. So the trade off is loss of nice boobs but gaining a truly feminine personality. Since boobs only last a couple decades, the Asian girls are a good deal.

    • Replies: @Hugo
  82. Jim says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    It’s true that much of the IQ data on the Han Chinese comes from prosperous urban area like Singapore, Hong Kong and Shanghai or from the overseas diaspora. It’s likely that these results overstate the average IQ of the Han (who constitute roughly 90% of the population of China). More representative data on the IQ of the Han is certainly desirable.

    On the other hand the IQ of the Japanese population has been extensively studied by both Japanese and Western psychometricians. The result is that the average IQ of the Japanese population is 107. This figure is very solidly established.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @OilcanFloyd
  83. @Jim

    In verbal IQ Northeast Asians may be slightly below Northwest Europeans but the difference is pretty small, maybe about 2-3 points. In spatial/quantitative IQ Northeast Asians have about a 10 point advantage over Northwest Europeans.

    Never thought I’d say it, but IQ isn’t everything. It’s very important in explaining the world around us, but in human endeavors it’s just one of many factors. Asians generally seem to have more relentless focus and less serendipity or eureka moments than their northern white counterparts. Do whites have higher incidence of ADD or ADHD diagnosed? Whites seem to come to greatness more naturally than either Jews or Asians – parents are less academically demanding and you see more interest in sports, hunting, or other outdoor exploration. Whites appear to have more intrinsic drive to explore generally. In terms of rise to executive levels, this is hardly an IQ contest as the social aspects are much more important. I’ve dealt with countless executives who were plainly average in intelligence but excelled in reading a social landscape and navigating the politics of bureaucracy. In the aggregate, IQ is the best measure we currently have, but at best it may explain half of what we see.

    • Replies: @Jim
  84. Jim says:
    @Anonymous

    The average IQ of the populations of the Indian subcontinent is quite a bit below European averages., I think Lynn gives it as 83. Note that Indian has a huge population which is genetically highly diverse so that the average IQ of the Indian population is not a very useful statistic. No doubt many subgroups of the Indian population have average IQ’s considerably higher than 83.

    Northeast Asians have an average IQ probably about 105. The average IQ of the Japanese population is about 107 and that of the South Korean population about 108. Southeast Asian popualtion average IQ’s tend to be range about 90-95, someshat similar to IQ levels in the Balkans. The average world IQ is somewhere around 90.

  85. Jim says:
    @anonymous

    Nearly all human moralitiy has a fundamental ingroup/outgroup orientation.

  86. Travis says:
    @Seck

    Even if we count all 30,000 Indonesian-Americans as Chinese , the number of Chinese in America is still under 3.5 million.

    if half the Vietnamese in America are Chinese, we probably have 4.1 million Chinese in America plus 1 million Japanese and 1.5 million Koreans…thus about 6.1 Million East Asians on the 2010 census , less than 2% of our population.

    Assuming they have an IQ of 109 on average they seem to be over-represented at our elite universities based on IQ alone.

    if 3 in 100 white Americans has an IQ above 130 , the number of white Americans with an IQ >130 would be 6, 700,000 which is greater than the entire population on East Asians in America

    assuming 6 in 100 East Asians have an IQ of 130 + we still have 19 times more white Americans with an IQ of 130+. Yet The top Universities have a ratio of 2-1 white Americans verse Asians.

    if University admissions was based solely on IQ we would expect our top universities to have 12 whites for every East Asian student instead of the current ratio.

    • Replies: @Jim
    , @Seck
  87. Bill says:
    @Anonymous

    Exactly. The fixation of HBD spergs on standardized tests is maddening—I guess there’s nothing to be done about it, though: spergs are going to fixate on something stupid. Elite universities “discriminate” against Asians because they have learned, through long and consistent experience, that Asians really are test-gaming, cheating grinds who bring little to the table. Also, of course, universities are run by Jews, and Jews, quite sensibly, see Chinese and Indians as threats.

    Controlling for test scores and grades, whites at university are noticeably better than Chinese, Indians, and Jews. Chinese-Americans are especially awful. Whites are not necessarily better in the sense of getting better grades, but definitely in the sense of learning more and doing more, intellectually, with the knowledge. It’s interesting to watch this change, though. The university is now so friendly to amoral, cheating drudges that there is fierce selection among whites for the most useless ones. So the difference on the ground is contracting.

    WASPs (males, of course) describe their reaction as “getting bored,” but I don’t think that is what’s going on. It’s more like, “This is bullshit. Why should I participate in this bullshit? Video games are more rewarding. Building natural gas pipelines is more rewarding.” Asians and Jews have this particular reaction to a significantly lesser extent. Most of them don’t even understand the reaction. You should participate in this bullshit to get money, status, and power. You should participate in whatever gets you money, status, and power.

    The way Chinese and Indians complain is an illustration of the problem. As far as I can tell, virtually no Chinese and only some Indians even grasp who is doing it to them. It’s the evil “whites” who are discriminating against them. Pathetic.

    • Replies: @Seck
  88. Bill says:
    @anon

    Exactly. If you are an amoral grind in pursuit of money, status, and power, then you do what gets you the goodies. In America, it sure looks like whining about white power gets you the goodies. Hence, that’s what Asians do.

  89. Seck says:
    @Threecranes

    It’s not even a thought process. Your thought is all jumbled up.

    By following the same logic, Russia should be allowing more Asians immigrants because it has a vast acre of land to accommodate inhabitants more than 100 per squared km.

    So by the same reasoning, why should we accept any Chinese immigrants in our Universities? What’s in it for us? And who confuses this with moral goodness?

    If American universities are accepting anyhow Chinese immigrants, you can be sure that in no time, they will become defunct and all universities in the US will become “Immigration Port Authority”. Nobody confuses you with moral goodness. You can’t clearly think or can’t clearly articulate here “Immigration Vs Education”.

  90. Seck says:
    @Beach

    Those are tip of the cesspool. You haven’t been to inner circle of Beijing riches. To give you an idea, Gossip Girls will enlighten you why those ultra rich are by-product of uncontrolled, rampant capitalism. Blair Waldorf lives like a queen, she only associates with her queenish retinue. She expects she will marry a kind, Chuck Bass one day no matter how arrogant he is.

    While Jenn from a poor family struggles to fit into Blair circle of friends with her measly trinkets. You go figure how the society runs amok when they got ultra rich.

    The same scenario plays in China with Chinese speaking ultra rich.

    So speaking English or not, does not matter in real life. It’s how you attain richness.

  91. Seck says:
    @Santoculto

    When i talk about east asians i always separates japanese people (on average) from continental northeast asians, they *seems* are really discrepant.

    Do you exclude or include Ainu? Just a sincere curiosity.

    because *most* (and not almost) of greater scientific innovations is happening ”here”(the west”)

    That’s the bottom line. Do you think there’s no Chinese students in Japan universities? There are tons of Chinese students in Japan universities as well. If Russia brings next technological advancement tomorrow, they will flock to Russia. Anywhere you can climb up the social ladder with your sheer effort, Chinese will flock. That’s the fact.

    Now Chinese are going to Africa, it’s because of “Scientific advancement”? Different forms of Chinese immigrants throughout the centuries. It’s where you settled.

    • Replies: @Jim
    , @Santoculto
  92. Jim says:
    @Travis

    Assuming a standard deviation of 15 for both Whites and Northeast Asians and a normal distribution for both one would expect about 2.3% of whites to be above 130 and about 8.1% of Northeast Asians to be 130. One should note though that the accuracy of a normal distribution approximation may not be that good at the tails of a distribution.

    Using the overall racial composition of the US, I would expect the US cognitive elite to be about 85% White, 10% Northeast Asian and 5% other.

  93. Fred Reed says:

    Agree entirely, but is the Chinese advantage in IQ sufficient to explain the absolutely overwhelming preponderance of “Asian”—whatever exactly that means—students in the elite high schools and (I think) math Olympiad in proportion to their share of the general population?

    CalTech, arguably the most demanding school in the US, says that it does not practice affirmative action. It is only 1.5% black, which supports the assertion, since affirmative is chiefly an excuse for stuffing blacks into places they cannot qualify for. The studentry are 44% Asian, 28% white, 12.2% Hispanic (up from ten percent last year). This seems extravagant for the measured difference. Am I wrong?

    http://nces.ed.gov/globallocator/col_info_popup.asp?ID=110404

  94. Jim says:
    @Stan D Mute

    There are certainly racial differences in “hyperactivity” with Northeast Asians particularly low and South American Indians such as the Yanamamo much higher. “Hyperactivity” seems to be a behavioral trait which may have been advantageous in “primitive” cultures but subject to anti-slection in larger more hierarchical societies. On the other hand the Bushmen are apparently low in “hyperactivity”.

    • Replies: @Stan D Mute
  95. Seck says:
    @Travis

    According to your calculation based solely on population data,

    We should be seeing more White guys in NBA, shouldn’t we? or it’s because White guys are not as tall as Blacks?

    Anyway, I will follow your logic. To be more lucid,

    East Asians in the US 2010 = ~ 6.1 mil
    Whites in the US = ~ 223 mil (72% of the total population)

    Assuming 3 out of 100 populace in concern have +130 IQ, we would expect
    East Asians = ~ 183,000
    Whites = ~ 6.8 mil

    Ratio of IQ +130 between
    White::EA
    37:1

    Sounds simple and clear. There’s a fundamental flaw in your population thesis.

    Whites in the US make up every imaginable persons in the US society, wouldn’t it? That’s why it’s known as “White America”. You can bet grandparents, parents, relatives, siblings, cousins, they all make up the White population. You can even expect to see White prostitutes, gays, LGBT, you name it. You can come across White beggars, white trash, you name it. Aging population, younger population, you’d see Whites across the entire country. It’s 72% Whites America. So 223 millions of White populace do not conveniently correspond to your mental calculation of 3 out of 100 having IQ +130.

    OTOH, East Asians population in America is relatively small. It’s highly unlikely you come across an old grandma with a walking stick in Wyoming, Utah, Nevada to name a few. You won’t find EA beggars in the middle of Central park. No EA prostitutes in Kansas. Basically majority of the EA population in the US makes up the fresh immigrants (FOP fresh of the plane) or learning students or graduates (MSc. or Ph.D). Bottom line is Uncle Sam conveniently inherit 20 years old kids to work for his T-bill. No need to nurture, no need to cater to his childhood, but just having when the fruit is ripe, those EA immigrants come with cash, (pay housing, utilities, cars, etc etc etc).

    Any whoo, so out of 223 million White populace, we will divide by 3 to get the White populace around working age (the reason being 2 will make up grandparents, and another 2 will make up parents, and hopefully each family have 2 kids = 6 in total making up an nuclear family). So we are left with 74 millions Whites within 1 – 40 years old.

    Now we’re going to remove any kids under 17 years old.

    Looking at this pop chart, in 2010, there are 73 millions kids under 17 years old.

    http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp

    So we are left with 1 millions White populace above 17 and under 40. Does it even make sense?

    Bottom line is this entire calculation of population based and should be seeing more Whites in the university solely based on population is fundamentally flawed because, EA populace do not make up the society like phenomenon in the US. They are just a tiny portion making up in the education sectors.

    • Replies: @Travis
  96. Seck says:
    @Bill

    After your chest thumping, Dr. said “Don’t forget to take another pill.”

  97. Jim says:
    @Seck

    The Ainu (virtually none of whom continue to use Ainu as their home language) are pretty close geentically to other Japanese.

  98. MarkinLA says:
    @jtgw

    The problem that any elite academic institution has to deal with are grinders and the truly gifted. Many Asians with high GPAs and test scores are grinders. They get high grades and but do very little of distinction. I once was in school with one such guy. He was the nicest guy you could imagine. He was trying to get his MS in one year. He spent 16 hours a day at the lab, the library or in class 6 days a week (of course he did take time off to eat and would meet with friends if they asked). He took Sunday off – he only worked 12 hours. He so impressed the faculty the offered him a chance to get his PhD on scholarship and stay since he only had enough money for that one year.

    As I look at the current faculty and the list of a accomplishments in the alumni magazine, I have never noticed him being mentioned. That doesn’t mean much, neither have I. However, it makes you wonder how much of his accomplishment was perspiration and how much was inspiration?

    If you are an elite institution you would rather have more of the gifted even though you do need some grinders.

    • Replies: @jtgw
  99. denk says:

    *Fifteen years ago — fifteen blessed years, readers— I wrote a piece titled “The Whining Minority.” That was at the time of the Wen Ho Lee brouhaha, for those who remember it, and the minority I was writing about was Americans of Chinese descent.

    whining too much eh ?

    chinese americans have been easy canon fodders for tptb’s demonisation campaign against china, ever since that *Wen Ho Lee brouhaha* [sic], [1]
    or was it the persecution of tsien xue shen ? [2]

    [1]
    lee wen ho,
    guilty until proven innocent, murkkan style justice.

    http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/WEN-HO-LEE-You-Call-This-Justice-Presumed-2883532.php

    [2]
    tsien xue shen, pioneer nasa scientist, hounded by the mccarthy witch hunt for *commie spies*, went back to china and become the father of chinese space prog.

    http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0911/02china/

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  100. jtgw says: • Website
    @D. K.

    Unz showed that Asians are underrepresented at the Ivy League, whereas you seem to be arguing that they are overrepresented. So stop citing Unz as if he supports your case, when in fact he does the opposite. Your illogical and incoherent musings don’t really support your notion that white gentiles should have higher representation at elite universities, by the way. If white gentiles really are that smart, maybe they should try harder to show it.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @D. K.
  101. Sherman says:

    I work with a lot of ethnic Chinese in my profession. This includes both American-born Chinese and Chinese immigrants. I also work with a lot of Japanese.

    I’ve been very unimpressed with most of them. They’re good at doing repetitive, boring jobs but are lousy at analyzing, making decisions or using judgement.

    They tend to do things by rote and – pardon the cliche – can’t think outside the box.

    Furthermore, many have awful interpersonal skills.

    There’s a reason there’s a “bamboo ceiling” in American business.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  102. jtgw says: • Website
    @MarkinLA

    Well, Harvard is the best judge of who should attend Harvard. The problem is when the government gets involved, since then we get into thorny questions of fairness and merit and all the rest. It would be best if the government, or at least the federal government, divested itself from education entirely; then it would just be nobody else’s business who gets to go to Harvard or why. But if you asked me what should be the criteria for admission at an elite university, I would just say IQ. I would say the same for just about any job that requires any mental aptitude. It’s a better predictor than just about anything else.

  103. @Fred Reed

    woah, 12% hispanic, good for them!

    I would like to add that it is their work ethic. as students they really put in the time to study. anyone who ever had a smart asian friend in school would know exactly what I mean.

  104. @jtgw

    from ron’s article.

    asians and white gentiles are shafted.

    jews are 1% of the top 1% of students but easily take up 30-40% of the spots.

    blacks almost have no business being in those schools :( but for affirmative action.

  105. @Sherman

    you should at least try to do a good job at hiding your racism. look at markinla, he is doing a perfect job of it :)

    • Replies: @Bill
    , @MarkinLA
  106. @Seck

    About ainu people… Probably. I just know that most them were forced to mingle with non-Ainu people reducing a lot the % of “pure” Ainu people.

    I know about it but different motivations for different continent destiny don’t prove your point. Of course I know there are Chinese students in Japan, but with a greater country you have in territory, city and people, why many Chinese students need immigrate to the “west”.

    East Asia in general and in the modern context show all the time great intelligence but lack of big C or creativity. Modern east Asian nations are just copy of western homologues.

    Of course is pragmatic copy existent advanced ideas but even in details where non so big C is needed east Asian elites seems less impressive.

    At least philosophy in the east seems to be dead and it may work very well for improvement of social details of system for example in education, maximization of laboral efficiency without sacrifice work forces.

    Sorry, I’m not a asiaphobic or Asia hater, I hate equally quantitatively all human Populations and give special attention for valued individuals. Groups are always inferior than valued individuals.

    Today ( or always ) western people give exaggerated value to education while most them believe blindly in the supposed greater efficiency of meritocratic system to put right people in the right place, making right thinks.

    Just in sites like this that we can talk about realities and crucial failures of system for example educational system without histeria by idiotic ideologue people.

    I continue with my theory that very likely lack of big CREativity among east Asians Or on average have with “compensatory” effect big CONcentration ability.

    In Brazil Japanese descendents who are 1-2% of population are overrepresented in public universities because pure cognitive specific ability. To do exams to pass in public Brazilian universities you need have higher general intelligence, to be good for concentration ability to study for this tests, higher long term gratification long term ( generally correlate with concentration ability) and put its intrinsic personal egocentric or social motivations below the extrinsic goal or to do the exams to pass for university.

    • Replies: @Seck
  107. Sorry my English is worst even it is possible.

    Gratification long term long term mayday mayday

  108. Langley says:

    “One way is to have a monoracial society, like Japan or Finland, where there is no issue.”

    Not quite.

    Japan has four problems:

    1. The Ainu
    2. The Okinawan
    3. The Koreans
    4. The Haole

    • Replies: @random observer
    , @denk
  109. Travis says:
    @Seck

    the 2010 census data indicates America had 43 million whites between the age of 20 -34 and just 3.5 million Asians (of which East Asians are less than 50%)

    even if we assume the average IQ of all Asians is 110 , America would have just 175,000 Asians with an IQ above 130 and 1,260,000 white Americans with an IQ above 130 among those aged 20-34

    For the last decade Asians have been 22% of the Ivey league graduates, yet they are only 11% of the American high IQ population among those between 20 and 34 years old, this assumes Filipinos, Vietnamese, Hindus, Hmong, Cambodians, Pakistanis etc.. also have average IQs of 110.

    but since East Asians are just 40% of the 3.5 million Asians in America aged 20-34 the actually number of high IQ Asians in America is closer to 150,000 , less than 10% of the total number of High IQ Americans. Yet Asians are over 30% of our graduate students at the top 100 Universities.

    IQ does not explain the discrepancies..could be other genetic and cultural factors involved.

    • Replies: @map
  110. @Jim

    Is not 104 the value??

    • Replies: @Jim
  111. @foo9

    Much here is correct but what on earth can this statement mean? -

    “They have no real poems, or epics or corpus of literature or art that appears as such to any Indo-European person. ”

    Have the meanings of poem, epic, corpus, literature and art been changed?

  112. Ron Unz says:

    I’m very busy with my own work right now and anyway try to avoid getting involved in comment-threads. However, given the topic and the length of the discussion, including numerous references to my own work, I thought I should clarify a few things.

    First, estimating the number of high-ability Asian-Americans or white Americans from overall IQ statistics really isn’t the best approach. Both groups are extremely heterogenous hence their IQs certainly don’t follow any sort of normal distribution, especially at the high end. Second, the age distribution curve of various groups isn’t necessarily the same, so using general statistics to estimate the high-ability college-age population is very doubtful.

    I think by far the best approach is an empirical one, namely examining the number of National Merit Semifinalists (based on the PSAT) which represents roughly the top-performing 0.5% of high school seniors. The PSAT isn’t a perfect test and the dataset isn’t perfect either, but I think it’s clearly the least-bad method of doing any sort of national estimate on this thing.

    I followed exactly this approach in my lengthy Meritocracy article, which I would urge interested commenters to read. I supplemented this basic metric by using numerous other measures of very high-end academic performance, such as academic Olympiad lists, and all the results seemed totally consistent. The results were also (roughly) consistent with what would be expected based on IQ distributions, bearing in mind that East and (especially) South Asian immigrants are a highly-selected immigrant group, not necessarily representative of their mean populations back home.

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

    All my data is presented in several lengthy Quantitative Appendices and there was also a long series of follow-up columns, in which I discussed and reacted to various questions and disagreements that arose during the course of a very lengthy public debate in the media. Based on all of this and additional data that has subsequently come out, I feel very confident that my basic conclusions were almost entirely correct.

    Summarizing them in the simplest possible manner, the breakdown of America’s highest-performing high school seniors on the national level is as follows: 25-30% Asian, 6-7% Jewish, and 65-70% non-Jewish white.

    The reason for the substantial error-bars is that individual states all have different NMS cut-offs, so all the state lists are slightly different in the degree of high performance they represent.

    I think there are several reasons why the Asian enrollment at Caltech is over 40% Asian: (1) Caltech is located in CA, which has the largest Asian population, and (to some extent) skews local in its geographical distribution; (2) Since the Ivies and many other top-elite schools have Asian Quotas, top Asian students are somewhat redirected to Caltech, which doesn’t; (3) Asian students are more math/science focused, and Caltech specializes in exactly that area. I can’t really judge the relative importance of these three different factors.

    Similarly, one of the reasons that Caltech is 12% Hispanic is that the LA area and CA overall is so heavily Hispanic, while the white college-age population is relatively small compared to the national figures.

    Anyway, I do feel that some of the heated debaters on this thread might benefit from reviewing my very detailed quantitative analysis, if only to disagree with it.

    • Replies: @Fred Reed
  113. @Langley

    True, use of the term ‘monoracial’ does have to be a bit less than purely literal for even those societies that approach it most closely.

    The present Finland has had Swedes in it for 1000 years or so, and they represent very distinct ethnolinguistic categories. What the original genetic distance might have been between Indo-European Germanic speakers and Finno-Ugric aboriginals might have been I have no clue, nor to what degree it can even be detected any more after centuries of cohabitation.

    But Finland was for long a monoculture, first with Swedish dominance and latterly with Finnish dominance, despite that distinction.

    Something similar might be the wisest way to describe Japan.

    But I’d still like to see further information on the numbers of Ainu, Okinawans, Koreans and white people in Japan, and how much impact they have had on genetic diversity. Especially for those last latest arrivals.

    Also, last I heard the “Japanese” ethnic group was an ancient Korean arrival placed atop the substrate of the Jomon culture, and that the Ainu were also descendants of the Jomon.

    How far apart are those groups, really?

    • Replies: @Jim
  114. Seck says:
    @Santoculto

    I’m not WASPhobic or whatever phobic either. I present my facts, and if the facts are in tune with one’s observation, one can extrapolate data to check if their logic stands or falls apart. I’m not Sinophilic either. But as I’ve been to many countries and learned, it’s always a pleasure to see some idiots in Unz making one-sided comments as if their logic stands the test of time.

    EA are known to have developed delayed gratification.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
    , @anowow
  115. Jim says:
    @random observer

    I’ve read that about 20% of the genome of Finnish Lapps is derived from Central Asia. Probalby consederably less for the Finns.

  116. Jim says:
    @Santoculto

    I recall Lynn lists 105 as the Japanese IQ. But Lynn normalizes IQ at 100 for the British or English population and he gives 98 for the US IQ. Since most Americans are used to IQ being normed to 100 on the US population I generally add 2 points to Flynn’s figures to adjust to the usual US presentation of IQ scores. US whites are probably about 101-102 on a scale normalizing the entire US population to 100. So the difference between Northwest Europeans and the Japanese is about a third of a standard deviation.

  117. Jim says:
    @Fred Reed

    But Fred note that the difference in spatial/quantitative IQ between Whites and NE Asians is about 10 points whereas in verbal IQ there may be a slight White advantage. I would guess that the CalTech student body is biased to higher spatial/quantitative IQ as compared with verbal IQ. Also I wonder if CalTech does give any preference to California residents or whether the applicant pool for Caltech somewhat reflects the demographics of California.

    However of course academic success can certainly be affected by other behavioral traits such as persistence and conscientiousness. But what many people don’t seem to realize is that all behavioral traits including conscietiousness and persistence have significant to substantial genetic components.

  118. Svigor says:

    Put more of them into academia, they’ll be replacing Jews.

    Put more of them into the upper corporate ranks, they’ll be replacing rich white traitors.

    Two groups that deserve replacing, good and hard.

  119. rod1963 says:
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    That is a well known problem among the Chinese, especially in China where all sorts of degrees are for sale from BSCS to a MD. Yes you can buy a medical degree from Beijing U.

    As one wag put it, in China not only is whats on the table is for sale, but whats under the table and the table itself is for sale as well.

    How bad is it here? Just recently IMS our colleges expelled a boat load of Chinese students they caught cheating. It’s probably a cultural thing.

  120. Fred Reed says:
    @Ron Unz

    Rno,

    I believe the Asian preponderance is repeated in the elite high schools in regions that are less Asian than CA. And from the Hispanic population of CA in re Caltech, should not those be subtracted who are recently arrived or came with no education and therefore are not in the running for universities ? By contrast, al the whites are natively fluent in English and have had a hot at a secondary education.

    • Replies: @Jim
  121. Svigor says:

    “murkkan style justice.”

    Chinese are free to remain under the aegis of their wonderful legal system, back in China. They won’t have the burden of living near YT, and all will be bliss. We, for our part, want to stay as far from Chinese justice as possible. Like, say, having some rich scumbag run them over five times with his car and pay of the gov’t to let them skate.

    Chinese could elevate themselves, but so often seem to prefer sleazy transparent ethnocentrism.

    • Replies: @denk
  122. rod1963 says:
    @Beach

    Having read comments from Americans who have spent decades in China, it’s quite clear the place is rife with corruption and cronyism from top to bottom.

    As for those rich Chinese kids who come to attend our universities, I’m sure they have people to take the exams and write research papers for them.Mommy and daddy can’t afford to lose face back home because their boy is a worthless low IQ party animal so they stack the deck.

    As to why they are sending them here, it’s because a degree from Beijing U is worthless, for $3k you can buy a MS complete with transcripts. So they come here where a degree still carries some credence. But give the Chinese and Hindus a bit of time and they’ll degrade the degrees.

    Our universities will eventually come to regret importing these foreign students from cultures that are alien if not hostile to our way of doing things.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Johann Ricke
  123. MarkinLA says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    racism, racism, racism, blah, blah, blah get new material already.

  124. MarkinLA says:
    @Fred Reed

    Well unless you have pictures since “Hispanic” is entirely based on somebodies own self determination we don’t know if that person is European or Amerindian just like how there is an argument about the crime statistics over white and Hispanic.

    Just because Caltech doesn’t use affirmative action doesn’t mean that people still won’t use “Hispanic” as a way to game the system in terms of financial aid and other goodies given to minorities.

  125. MarkinLA says:
    @rod1963

    Wealthy families from Asia would rather use all their money to get their kids into a name university in the US than one of the less than elite universities in their home country. Most of those places are highly competitive for the few elite universities. Going to a local second tier university is not something they can deal with and with enough money they know that can get their kids into many of our universities that have name recognition such as one of the UCs, Michigan, Wisconsin ….

    • Replies: @Beach
  126. @Bill

    if that is your stance, why are we even talking? :) why are we all talking? what is the point of this article? keh.

  127. @Seck

    ”EA are known to have developed delayed gratification.”

    Exactly… gratification tolerance correlates with intrinsical/extrinsical motivation.

    For example.

    there are basically two types of people

    those who can do things what they dislike to do (extrinsical motivation or expect more candy in the next week than eat it now ), sacrifice, focus on certain goal, like study for example

    and people who cannot to do what they dislike or have very little tolerance for it. Generally this type of people will be easily affected by boredom.

    Study for Sat or public exams in Brazil is boring for most of people, even for many smart types.

    Some people and MANY, maybe, MOST of northeast asians are very good to give attention for studies to make Sat, pisa or university exams. They can control their inner-intrinsical motivations or natural motivations to dedicate some hours of your young lives in boring activities as study for take tests.

    Concentration ability is a key-trait that help us to explain why east asians are so good in cognitive tests, comparatively speaking of course.

    This people can sacrifice their inner imperatives that emanates via personality.

    I never like to study what school forced. Sometimes i was the first in the class specially in Geography, other times i was below average in general.

    ”Independent” cognitive behaviour may explain both, lack of big CRE, and gift of big CON, among east asians.

    East asians seems have higher latent inhibition.

    ”I’m not WASPhobic or whatever phobic either. I present my facts, and if the facts are in tune with one’s observation, one can extrapolate data to check if their logic stands or falls apart. I’m not Sinophilic either. But as I’ve been to many countries and learned, it’s always a pleasure to see some idiots in Unz making one-sided comments as if their logic stands the test of time.”

    Ok, i understand. I hope it is not a indirect because when people talk about ”idiot” i already think that they are talking about me, ;)

    ”I think there are several reasons why the Asian enrollment at Caltech is over 40% Asian: (1) Caltech is located in CA, which has the largest Asian population, and (to some extent) skews local in its geographical distribution; (2) Since the Ivies and many other top-elite schools have Asian Quotas, top Asian students are somewhat redirected to Caltech, which doesn’t; (3) Asian students are more math/science focused, and Caltech specializes in exactly that area. I can’t really judge the relative importance of these three different factors.”

    I would write it too, ;)

    In Brazil, japanese descendents live specially in the most important state of federation. They are just 1-2% of population but they have overrepresentation in many important universities in São Paulo state, like USP. Why**

    Cognitive (specific) advantage AND geographic factor as well.

    Other possible explanation for discrimination against non-hisp-jewish whites in USA is the forced politics in the campus for diversity proportion on student body but the percent of them in this elite university is so higher that this possibility look pale.

    • Replies: @Jim
  128. dahoit says:
    @jtgw

    Jews?Just because they think they are smarter,it doesn’t mean one has to agree.
    I would posit that Asians and Jews are more driven for success than gentile whites,and the ivy league has a cachet for them not seen in white gentiles,as they know its not image but substance that counts.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  129. dahoit says:

    One measures intelligence how?The pursuit of wealth or the pursuit of happiness?
    I remember distinctly at the beginning of the Iraq debacle 80% ?of whites approved while 10%? of blacks did.And that the majority of whites are still braindead over the wot also reveals we aint as slick as we might think.

  130. @dahoit

    you should read ron’s article. it has nothing to do with what one thinks. it has everything to do with the people in the admissions offices.

  131. D. K. says:
    @jtgw

    I am sorry that you are illiterate in English; perhaps it is not your native language. I have stated, above, that “Asians” are grossly over-represented in the Ivy League DEMOGRAPHICALLY– NOT MERITOCRATICALLY. I have stated further that we non-Hispanic White gentiles, comprising just over 60% of the resident population of the United States, are underrepresented in the Ivy League– DEMOGRAPHICALLY, AS WELL AS MERITOCRATICALLY. As to the latter, when accepting Mr. Unz’ self-cited article’s own statistics, arguendo (and with the usual apologies to the lovely N. B.!), we non-Hispanic White gentiles are more underrepresented than “Asians” in all but one of the Ivy League schools (that exception being Dartmouth), MERITOCRATICALLY.

    Here is Mr. Unz’ own graph, illustrating what I am restating, here, for the umpteenth time, now:

    Perhaps you can find a brilliant “Asian” victim of “White” racism to explain it to you….

    • Replies: @jtgw
  132. jtgw says: • Website
    @D. K.

    OK, but that’s exactly what I said earlier: Asians are overrepresented demographically, so in progressive terms they have no grounds for complaint. You seem to be arguing against me when in fact I said the exact same thing you’re saying. So I still suspect that you’re a moron. Also, I wasn’t talking about white, non-Hispanic gentiles at all, so I don’t know why you brought that up.

    All the being said, I really don’t understand WHAT Asians are complaining about, according to Derbyshire’s article. Are they complaining about being treated as a “model minority”? Are they complaining about not getting enough Ivy League places? He doesn’t really say what the complaints are.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  133. @Travis

    For an enlightening case study on exactly how South Asians (i.e., Indians) became so overrepresented in the top schools, google “Kaavya Viswanathan” and find out how her parents got her into Harvard.

  134. D. K. says:
    @jtgw

    ***

    YOU:

    “I would say that a ‘fair’ university admissions system should be based on academic merit alone, since that is the point of the institution, after all: to educate. So the racial makeup of the student body should be a function of the overall demographic proportion of the race and that race’s relative academic aptitude. Since Jews and Asians are smarter than white gentiles, one would rightly expect more of them than their demographic proportions warrant.”

    ***

    THEN ME:

    “As I stated above, but obviously need to reiterate: based upon Mr. Unz’ own statistics, from his famous article, we of the non-Hispanic White-gentile majority, not those in the laughably contrived ‘Asian’ category, are the ones most underrepresented in the Ivy League’s admissions– based upon merit alone, per Mr. Unz’ stated criteria, as laid out in that article!”

    ***

    THEN YOU, AGAIN:

    “Unz showed that Asians are underrepresented at the Ivy League, whereas you seem to be arguing that they are overrepresented. So stop citing Unz as if he supports your case, when in fact he does the opposite. Your illogical and incoherent musings don’t really support your notion that white gentiles should have higher representation at elite universities, by the way. If white gentiles really are that smart, maybe they should try harder to show it.”

    ***

    THEN ME, AGAIN:

    “I have stated, above, that ‘Asians’ are grossly over-represented in the Ivy League DEMOGRAPHICALLY– NOT MERITOCRATICALLY. I have stated further that we non-Hispanic White gentiles, comprising just over 60% of the resident population of the United States, are underrepresented in the Ivy League– DEMOGRAPHICALLY, AS WELL AS MERITOCRATICALLY. As to the latter, when accepting Mr. Unz’ self-cited article’s own statistics, arguendo (and with the usual apologies to the lovely N. B.!), we non-Hispanic White gentiles are more underrepresented than ‘Asians’ in all but one of the Ivy League schools (that exception being Dartmouth), MERITOCRATICALLY.”

    ***

    THEN YOU, YET AGAIN:

    “OK, but that’s exactly what I said earlier: Asians are overrepresented demographically, so in progressive terms they have no grounds for complaint. You seem to be arguing against me when in fact I said the exact same thing you’re saying. So I still suspect that you’re a moron. Also, I wasn’t talking about white, non-Hispanic gentiles at all, so I don’t know why you brought that up.”

    ***

    MR. UNZ’ DISPOSITIVE GRAPHIC, AGAIN:

    ***

    Shall we commence the voting, now, as to which of us two is fully supported by that graphic, and which of us is to be suspected of being a moron?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Seck
  135. @D. K.

    don’t understand why you keep on harping on and on about asian over representation. from what I understand, asian needs to be about 25%(100% increase of their current %). jews needs to come down from their current 40% to 7%(7% is their share of the top 1% of the students) NHW needs to gain all the percentages back from the jews and affirmative action losses. that is 100% base on merit.

    the biggest loser of the current system are NHW(whites)
    2nd loser are asians.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  136. Seck says:
    @D. K.

    You might as well try why you don’t see lots of guys in Beauty Pageants or Miss Universe. Maybe why there’s no women in construction sites, considering approximately 50 percent of the population makes up men and the other half women.

    Or maybe why we never see guys spreading their legs in the pregnancy room.

    The link you used from Ron is the chart he used to support his hypothesis that the reason why higher education institutions have higher ratios of Jew and Asians is something to do with their culture or … whatever he is basing his hypothesis. He is NOT claiming Whites are discriminated against higher education even to the detriments of their merits. This is what you claimed and pulled up Ron’s article, which I think is totally misusing or citing to support your claim that Whites are demographically and meritocratically underrepresented in higher education.

    Whites are demographically underrepresented in higher educations. That’s a descriptive statement which everybody can agree on. But meritocratically? which requires further explanation.

    Just because you see higher or lower ratios doesn’t qualify your claim of “meritocratically discriminated”.

    Just because you have some percentile population does not mean anything. By the same logic, we should be seeing Native Indian (1% in 2010 census), in every sector of the American economy.

    Do we see Native Indian in higher education? Considering they make up 1%, we should be seeing 1 in every 100 students in higher education.
    Do we see Native Indian in sports? Hollywood?

    If you go to Smithsonian museum, you’d see tons of Native Indians remnants boxed in a sparkled spotless display.

    Higher education stands for itself, it’s for Higher education. It has its own rules and policy, yet nebulous at times, whom to admit and whom to reject. Ivies is higher education, not some communal gardens where you’d expect to see visitors based on their population near the locale.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  137. denk says:
    @Svigor

    lets get this straight,
    are u saying its ok to persecute chinese murkkans cuz from where they
    come it isnt a bed of roses either ?

    p.s.
    u should at least address the ans to me, i nearly miss this one.

  138. I was berated in front of witnesses by a blonde female Concordia University (Montreal) student for mentioning a David Bowie song in conversation: China Girl. She was previously unknown to me and I am 20 years older. She rolled her eyes with disbelief as she pointed out my cultural insensitivity.

    I was actually living with a Chinese girl at the time. 14 years younger than me :-)

    • Replies: @5371
  139. denk says:
    @Langley

    *Japan has four problems:

    1. The Ainu
    2. The Okinawan
    3. The Koreans
    4. The Haole*

    why u should ask the okinawans what’s their problem ?

  140. @Jim

    I was thinking more of the attention deficit than the physical hyperactivity, but perhaps the two are entangled. The purpose of the question is to understand why whites have a greater record of the giant leaps in innovation – the epiphanies that perhaps result from an inability to remain focused on a project or train of thought that isn’t bearing fruit. By the numbers, we are outnumbered and outsmarted yet somehow responsible for an inordinate amount of innovation. Our restlessness seems to me a reasonable explanation but I’ve seen no data to prove or disprove it.

    • Replies: @Jim
  141. @Fred Reed

    East Asians are smarter than you, and they work harder.

    Unless you think East Asians in the USA, Canada, Australia, UK, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan, China, Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea all are part of a vast conspiracy to leak the International Mathematical Olympiad questions. And leak them only to people who look like them. Even if they’re scattered across the world.

  142. anowow says:
    @Seck

    So I take it you don’t get laid or, if you do, you pay for it.

    So we get a bunch of non-threatening engineers who pay high tuition and the trade off is in a generation or less we get a bunch of passive aggressive alienated nerds who contribute to the dysfunctional public space and national discourse.

    Why is it that people in their own countries, usually in villages, are laid-back, normal folks, but coming to the US turns many of them into neurotic, insecure a-holes?

    Is the West not holding up to its pornographic promises?

    Example: Arthur Chu’s virginal bitter plea for validation

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/27/from-socially-isolated-nerd-to-jeopardy-bad-boy-a-thank-you-note.html

    Truth be told, it’s hard to have any sympathy for Arthur and his probably numerous lonely nocturnal vigils.

    But I don’t blame Sek or Arthur for being what they are, I blame the white centrist Jack Kemp-esque d-bags who make all this possible.

    • Replies: @Seck
  143. Its interesting how East Asian university graduates do better occupationally in the US than they do in Australia and even in China. In Australia and New Zealand East Asian graduates have significantly higher unemployment rates than White graduates and complain about being discriminated against by white employers:

    https://www.labour.org.nz/media/wong-needs-address-spiralling-asian-unemployment

    While in China university graduates have higher unemployment rates than high school graduates:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28062071

    I’m putting the latter down to Asian snobbery regarding manual work. Say what you like about western graduates doing impractical degrees, but statistics do indicate they are more willing to do humble jobs when they can’t find degree level employment.

  144. denk says:
    @Bill

    *whats wrong with racism* ?

    how did the us govt got away with *wasting gooks, chinks, sandniggers, japs, krauts, * all these yrs ?
    i think we’ve the ans now.
    dont blame the neocons, the repugs, the dems.
    three centuries of *wasting* Untermensch would be unsustainable without the support of the populace. its as simple as that.

    • Replies: @Paco Wové
  145. D. K. says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I am harping on non-Hispanic White gentiles’ being underrepresented– both demographically and meritocratically, according to Mr. Unz’ statistics. I have merely mentioned in passing that so-called “Asians” are already grossly overrepresented, demographically. Since many people believe that demographics, rather than merit, should determine, or at least significantly influence, admissions decisions, that is still a highly relevant fact– along with the gross overrepresentation of Jewish students.

  146. anowow says:
    @thinkingabout it

    Exactly. We promise people the moon.

    American blowhards have been writing rhetorical checks for other Americans to cash in real economic, political and demographic terms ever since that fool Jefferson wrote his “all men”

    America’s failed promises causes more resentment than anything else we could do. It certainly explains anti-Americanism in Russia and the Middle East. Americans have to deal with this love-hate relationship with the world in a way other nationalities don’t, and I envy them that. And I’m not sure the love part of the relationship we have with the rest of the world is really respect, no more than a john respects a hooker he wants something from.

    I suspect the Native Americans would have been a lot less resentful, or at least speechless if we had told them “You Comanches [or other warlike tribe] are warriors, masters of your domain, but we want your land, and we will have it, so don’t be whiny b^tches about it. Show some warrior stoicism otherwise you guys might seem to be bs.ers with all that war paint and strutting.” (One pet peeve is that the West allows favored indigenous or colonized groups to be blowhards about their warrior ancestors and whiny victims simultaneously)

    None of this crocodile tears over the vanishing redman or promises involving grass growing, wind blowing or water flowing or what ever the proto-spinmasters of that time could think of.

  147. Beach says:
    @Truth

    I hope if I had that much dough, I’d buy better clothes, but they’re kids, so they look at style differently. No, it’s not the excesses – there are rich groups from all over the world in the States; it’s not like you don’t see them everywhere in large cities. It’s the same in London. I realize that not all Chinese students buy their way in. I was pointing out the nonsense of the notion of across the board intellectual superiority of Asian students.

  148. Beach says:
    @MarkinLA

    But what’s the point of that, if they’re not actually doing the work and getting the education? What are they qualified to do, after pretending to get a degree?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  149. D. K. says:
    @Seck

    You do not know what you are talking about– as an actual perusal of the graphic might have shown you! The graph on the right is based on merit– as calculated by Mr. Unz himself. In all but one case, non-Hispanic White gentiles are more discriminated against, meritocratically, than the so-called “Asians” are. That includes in each of the five elite schools listed that are outside of the Ivy League. In three of those five schools, “Asians” actually are over-represented, meritocratically, while they are nearly at parity in one of the other two.

  150. @denk

    tsien xue shen, pioneer nasa scientist, hounded by the mccarthy witch hunt for *commie spies*, went back to china and become the father of chinese space prog.

    This is your counter-example? That any American patriot hounded out of the country would have helped China’s Communists build their missile program? It’s not clear to me whether Wen Ho Lee was a spy, but Tsien is definitely not the man you want to be quoting as a counter-example. Tsien was a Benedict Arnold in yellowface.

  151. @rod1963

    As for those rich Chinese kids who come to attend our universities, I’m sure they have people to take the exams and write research papers for them.Mommy and daddy can’t afford to lose face back home because their boy is a worthless low IQ party animal so they stack the deck.

    To the extent wealth is amassed via raw ability, it’s likely that the children of wealthy parents will be fairly high-IQ themselves. I’m skeptical that Chinese students are cheating at a much higher rate than anyone else. It’s simply not necessary, and they are genetically inclined towards great tenacity, which is how their forebears warded off complete conquest by a technologically-superior Japan during the Sino-Japanese War and held half the Korean peninsula against the US-led UN coalition during the Korean War, despite being totally outclassed in logistical, naval, aerial and artillery terms throughout the conflict.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  152. 5371 says:
    @Seminumerical

    [She rolled her eyes with disbelief as she pointed out my cultural insensitivity.]

    That’s how they indicate interest nowadays.

  153. ”Economists” say that selective immigration is AMAZING for economy health… ok, ok, very good!!

    But will not be amazing for native people, ;)

    East asians and specially continental northeast asians were bio-cognitively shaped by national public exams since millennia. Gene co-evolution (and better, adaptation).

    The worst student is the adhd ones.

    ”Modern” scholastic system in the West was perfect/shaped to favor cognitive types as those who predominates among east asian populations.

    Among white populations, the ”scholastic” type also predominates in the higher levels of higher education/academics, than other cognitive/personality types. There are overrepresentation of scholastic types of in the higher education (”academia”) within white caucasian populations. ;)

    - conformist
    - extrinsically motivated (quasi the same than ”materialistic” or mundane oriented)
    - ”hard working” (or highly tolerant, even empathetic with ”extrinsically personal tasks”)

  154. Jim says:
    @Stan D Mute

    According to Lynn creativity is the same personality trait as psychopathy. Whites are more psychopathic than East Asians so more creative. Of course high intelligence is also necessary for high achievement in the sciences. Per Lynn whites tend to have a combination of intelligence and psychopathy which is more favorable for high achievement than most other ethnic groups.

    Northeast Asians have generally lived in complex hierarchial societies longer than most Europeans particularly Northern Europeans. Complex hierarchial societies probably result in more selection for high intelligence and conformity and more selection against psychopathy.

    The greater hyperactivity of whites probably plays a role too. Northeast Asians are low in hyperactivity. Of course hyperactivity and psychopathy are not in themselves sufficent to produce high achievement. The Yanamamo are high in hyperactivity and psychopathy but probably not sufficently intelligent to achieve much of anything in science.

    No doubt the above is highly oversimplified. Any biological trait such as human behavior is highly complex and we are just at the very beginnings of understanding human behavior.

  155. Jim says:
    @Fred Reed

    I work at a Chinese owned company which employs a large number of Chinese individuals. From talking to them I’ve noticed that they strongly prefer that their children attend schools which have a large NE Asian enrollment. Also they state that that is also the preference of their children. So if an institution like CalTech has a student body which is highly NE Asian that very fact may make it more attractive to other NE Asians. So we may be seeing in part the tendency of different racial groups to self-segregate.

  156. Jim says:
    @Santoculto

    An interesting thaing I’ve read about the Japanese-Brazilians – In recent years quite a few of them have returned to Japan. Now in Brazil they are a high-achieving elite group but the Japanese-Brazilians who have returned to Japan actually are a lagging group not doing as well as the general Japanese population.

    The average IQ in Brazil is 89 while in Japan it is 107. Japanese immigrants to Brazil were lower class people in Japan when they emigrated. So their average IQ was probably less than the Japanese average but still well above the Brazilian average.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  157. Seck says:
    @anowow

    So I take it you don’t get laid or, if you do, you pay for it.

    I fall short of further reading your comment.

    If one assertion is entirely dependent on one’s ability to eject seminal fluid either through mutual consent or with remuneration, you’d need to go to Africa to learn worldly event from your Saiyan.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  158. @Jim

    Differences in per capita income. In Japan, middle class means in Brazil belong to upper middle class. Many of Brazilian immigrants of Japanese origin who go to Japan are more humble social class and many are mixed race. Most Japanese descendants go to work in factories in Japan.

    Yes, there is no doubt that the average intelligence of the Brazilian Nipponese is higher than the national average. I read a study, including the Lynn reported, which showed that the average qi them would stand at around 98, just 10 points above the national average.

    Here there is a very common phrase to be uttered by those who will do tests for public colleges

    ” If you want to go to college, kill a Japanese ”

  159. Svigor says:

    lets get this straight,
    are u saying its ok to persecute chinese murkkans cuz from where they
    come it isnt a bed of roses either ?

    p.s.
    u should at least address the ans to me, i nearly miss this one.

    No, I’m saying you’re insulting the country you came to, when it’s dramatically better than the country you came from. You say “murrikan justice,” I say “Chinee logic.”

    “Isn’t a bed of roses either” is not the way to describe the difference between shit and french fries.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  160. @Jim

    Jim, I only asked because I don’t know the answer, and I know that China has a vast peasant class. I remember footage from floods from the early 2000s where peasants were organized into human chains that were supposed to dam large, raging rivers. My recollection is that many died.

    I don’t doubt that Japanese have high IQs in general, but Japan and China are very different places. Whatever the case, I don’t see how Americans benefit from massive immigration.

    • Replies: @Jim
  161. @Beach

    Beach, I fail to see how Americans benefit from having these people operating within our borders.

    Gaming the system seems to be a very Asian thing to do. My Vietnamese friends in high school told me that they hired people to take SATs for them. I guess they were telling the truth. The two that I kept up with both graduated as electrical engineers. One manages a call center for Sprint, and the other was trying his hand at selling real estate. Neither speaks English all that well.

    • Replies: @iffen
  162. denk says:
    @Svigor

    wow lol,
    i’ve never set foot in the unitedsnake, never will, it stinks merely
    thinking about it, lol

    u wanna know whats murkkan justice ?
    i havent even started yet,..

    just some sampling, tip of an iceberg,

    4 blackwater death squads killers executed by iraqi resistance fighters, in retaliation, murkkan occupation forces level the whole township fallujah with gunships, f19, artillery, m1 tanks, napalm, slaughtered thousands of women, children. bombing hospitals…
    sounds familiar ?

    why u just repeated that feat in afghan,
    after a c130 plane was downed, u obliterated a hospital , msf and all, with daisy cutters or whatever shit in your armoury, cuz the murkkan occupation forces believed there were talibans being treated inside !

    u’ve been performing extra judicial excecutions of *terrorists suspects* , including murkkan citizens, all over the world…

    i can go on for another 10000 a4 size papers and it’d be just scratching the surface.
    so listen up kid,
    compared to the unitedsnake, china is an angel, heheheh

    • Replies: @anowow
  163. @denk

    That’s nice. But you didn’t answer his question.

    three centuries of *wasting* Untermensch would be unsustainable without the support of the populace. its as simple as that.

    Well, I’d quibble with that “three centuries” – humans have been wasting (excuse me, *wasting*) “those other guys who aren’t us” since we came out of the trees. If you’re alive, it is highly unlikely that you’re not a member of a populace that at some point enthusiastically supported *wasting* [fill in the racial/ethnic slur denoting Those Other Guys Who Aren't Us].

    So back to the original question, which is a general one. I mean, just about everybody agrees that one kind of racism is wrong: “The kind directed at people like me!”. Beyond that, people are pretty fuzzy and inconsistent, but mostly, just opportunistic when it comes to being aware that “racism” is “wrong”. Like, when they notice that the people toward whom they feel deep racial antipathy are being racist.

    So probably only a small minority of humans, mostly some white weirdos, put any energy into holding an abstract, generalized ethical principle that “racism is wrong”. And even some of those oddballs believe that being racist against whites is OK, so there ya go – just about nobody believes that “racism is wrong”, full stop. So Bill’s interesting question remains.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  164. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Seck

    Very high-minded and astute of you, Arthur. Just remember, the white man is making sure you don’t get dates.

  165. anowow says:
    @denk

    You have to give the Chinese this, when they go nuts and start slaughtering people at least they usually keep it in-house.

    Why was it you guys let somebody like Mao run things for so long?

    • Replies: @denk
  166. denk says:
    @Svigor

    *No, I’m saying you’re insulting the country you came to, when it’s dramatically better than the country you came from. You say “murrikan justice,” I say “Chinee logic.*

    the lee wen ho and tsien xuesen persecution clearly shows that
    guilty until proven innocent is murkkan style *justice*.
    just look at your extra judicial executions all over the world,
    you think thats justice ?
    , lemme tell u something kid, thats thuggery !
    thats naked aggression, classified by the nuremberg trial as
    SUPREME INTERNATIONAL CRIME.
    this is an indictment of your legal system, or rather the lack of it.
    why do you feel insulted ?
    u should feel ashamed !

  167. denk says:
    @Paco Wové

    u think its nice ?
    i say its evil !
    i dunno why murkkans could stand their govn doing this kind of shit !

    *Waste the motherfuckers!” screamed across the screen in the outrageous and hateful film “Rules of Engagement” (2000), and into the streets and neighborhoods of Fallujah in November 2004. The film is a Samuel L. Jackson military vehicle that celebrates US war crimes from Vietnam to the Middle East, the US slaughter of Muslim civilians, young children included, and Arab bloodletting in general. It is, of course, one film, among many, that prepares US audiences for real manifestations of US aggression and war crimes: torture, slaughter of civilians, children included, and Iraqi bloodletting, as was the case in the “wasting” of Fallujah.*

    https://zcomm.org/znetarticle/wasting-fallujah-by-scott-morris/

  168. denk says:
    @anowow

    1]
    substantiate that *mao murdered ???? millions * claim forchrissake,
    once and for all.

    2]
    cuz mao *killed millions* in the sixties,
    its ok for you to commit genocides today, is that your point ?

    3]
    how do u guys tolerated 3 centuries of non stop crimes against humanities , committed in your name ?

    why are u getting back at me, im just a messenger, neither am i from china. !
    u should get even with the cabal in washington, they are the ones giving murkkans a bad name. !!

    to all my country right or wrong murkkans *patriots*
    good nite, oh i guess its morning over there in the land of mushrooms
    where folks are kept in the dark and fed bushit all day just like….mushrooms ,
    hehehe

    p.s.
    GOOD NITE/MORNING TO THE MOD,
    who’s obviously not a mushroom club member !

  169. Doorway says:

    I think the Chinese are just doing what they do best, trying to cheat and scam their way into a little bit more $. May be a stereotype, but its one I’ve observed to be true time and again. There must be some genetic component to that one, I see it so often. It’s like a national pastime with them. In this case, they see an opportunity here for non-whites to ride the gravy train of grievance so they want to get on board.

    I think part of the annoyance is that they are whining while in general being successful, whereas blacks and Hispanics are whining from the standpoint of being impoverished. A well-dressed man texting on a smartphone while standing next to a tear-wrenching sign about needing money for food gets less $ than a guy dressed in disheveled street rags. Not that either one deserves the handout, but its easier to justify giving a poor guy a buck than someone with nicer sh*t than I have.

  170. Doorway says:

    “According to Lynn creativity is the same personality trait as psychopathy. Whites are more psychopathic than East Asians so more creative. ”

    Where do you get that whites are more psychopathic? China is the 800-pound gorilla of East Asia, representing the bulk of the population. Have you been to China, or read the news about what goes on there?

    • Replies: @Jim
  171. iffen says:
    @grey enlightenment2

    Mao came up with a solution.

    Smart Chinaman?

  172. iffen says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Are you related to Oil Can Boyd?

  173. Hugo says:
    @Stan D Mute

    Bs. Most American women are nuts. Some of the most vocal ones are nuts and we have a very feminized society which promotes sluttish behaviour bit, not all of our women belong in that grouping. Derb is typical of the geeky White guy who anchors himself in IQ as that’s how he measures his self worth. And guys like that typically can’t handle White women and end up with Asians. For all intents and purposes he is a mudshark must with a more favourable ethnic group.

    • Replies: @Truth
  174. denk says:
    @Paco Wové

    how could u say i didnt ans bill’s question ?

    bill
    *whats wrong with racism* ?

    i already told him its murkkan racism that enabled three centuries of racist wars on the *gooks, chinks, sand niggers, japs….*

    heck, how could i miss out them *injuns* ?

    https://www.rt.com/usa/native-american-immigration-man-500/

  175. anon • Disclaimer says:

    The primary purpose of mass immigration and diversity is divide and rule.

    (as you can see from this thread)

    You can see why the people who opened America’s borders wisely don’t want mass immigration and diversity back home.

  176. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Japan’s IQ

    The brain needs iodine to develop properly.

    Iodine mostly comes from the sea.

    The Japanese get so much iodine from seaweed they don’t put any in baby milk in case the babies get too much.

    The proven high IQ bits of China are in the mercantile centers near the coast.

    Personally I don’t believe the interior is the same.

    (None of that is relevant to the thread – just saying.)

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  177. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Also, I don’t know if there’s data on this but if white people are being actively discriminated against at the Ivies then there will be significantly more white females than males

    cos reasons.

    If there’s not then it’s probably cos white debils still have too many HG genes and can’t compete with swotty kids

    so they’ll have to invent FTL travel in their time off from MacDonalds.

  178. Truth says:
    @Hugo

    LOL; Dude, you can’t come on an (ostensible) White Nationalist board, and call John Derbyshire a “mudshark”?!?!?!

    • Replies: @Hugo
  179. @anon

    Samoans are brainy??

    • Replies: @anon
  180. MarkinLA says:
    @Beach

    In many third world countries all somebody has to do is get a degree and they are instantly given government positions. I remember all those Iranians at UCLA cheating at every chance they could. Once they got back home I bet they were put in relatively high positions.

  181. MarkinLA says:
    @Johann Ricke

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&type=smds_5236_CRW_US&p=Chinese+SAT+cheating

    Most of the SAT cheating stories I have read involve Chinese nationals. The universities know but don’t care. They pay full price and the inflated SATs make their incoming classes look smarter

  182. joe webb says:

    as I have frequently commented, here in Silicon Valley, even including SF, which just reaffirmed its continuing commitment to sanctuary for the mexer criminals, the general sense of the liberals that I meet frequently with my big mouth is that the chinks are terrible.

    One 60 year old women yesterday in SF told me that chinks don’t get thank you or I’m sorry.

    The chinks may turn out to be one of several chinks in the armor of white pathological altruism.

    Whites have no reason to make up stories about chinks to Understand their behavior.

    Whites around here see their bad behavior every day…chink rudeness, and chink networking, as great at the Jews, only the Jews are more clever, and keep up the smiling face to the goyim. The chink does not bother.

    I have told this story before. A white nationalist I know in Vancourver, BC reports that a chink friend of his told him that the family table talk at home is how dumb whites are for letting us (chinks) into Canada. A billion plus of the cunning critters…every chink a spy for China. Every chink a communist-capitalist-one-dimennsional grifter. However, the smiling chink gals prefer white guys, especially blondes…they sell out at the drop of a white male smile.

    This must make the average chink male hate us all the more. Same dynamic amongst Jew males.
    I experience this every day…the chink female behavior, as I am still a blonde of sorts, and still relatively good looking.

    genetic similarity only up to a point….as the chink gals have said to me, a white guy treats you a lot better than an “Asian ” male…for the chink male, ‘it is all business.” You give me fukee tonight sweetie? lemme see your mo-ney first.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  183. @joe webb

    I love this website :) simply because even shit posts like yours can get through.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  184. Priss Factor [AKA "The Priss Factory"] says: • Website

    Yellows are dogs.

    They are now the Model anti-model minority. They are so desperate to be the Model PC Minority since PC is the official ideology of America.

  185. Rdm says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Don’t get Joe wrong. Joe is a great guy. Every invention remotely relevant to “Whiteness”, Joe feels really proud. He has been standing tall on all White greatness, as he believes. White killing each other, hands off. White raping others, hands off. White bloodsucking others, hands off. But just a tiny bit of White guys saying “How are you? Are you ok?” seems very altruistic form of the Great White Men alpha-ness.

    Sometimes Joe thinks of himself as “King Lear”, feeling ripe-ness from passing through all the golden ages of White people advancement. For that, Unz needs someone like Joe constantly. Joe the cracker thinks every invention on earth is made by Whites. It doesn’t matter if someone from Serbia made some invention, as long as the inventor remotely looks like “White”, Joe feels proud.

    But don’t underestimate Joe the albino, because Joe in real life might as well be a great White Professor. But having this venue in Unz gives Joe a niche to spew out his utter nonsense. Sometimes you know that someone needs a break from daily encountering from 1.3 billion chinks in his life. Hey we don’t know he might as well married to Chink.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @dcite
  186. Well said but I smiled when you stated what you did because of the following:
    1. If you examne the percentage of posters reflecting this high IQ context, my personal belief is that the IQ stuff is BS but it persists despite evidence to the contrary. I can use it to fish knowing that the true believers of it will rarely be tasked with their view.
    2. Asians will play i.e. go along with the status quo, because that is their modus operandi of survival. That means they must kowtow to those who grant them that honourary status (whatver it may be called or known as! My take is the distinction between the older immigrant Asian and their native born kinfolk have allowed the status quo to be challenged though I would deem both sides equal in how they present their case but the Grace Lee Boggs of today remain hidden.

    http://www.pbs.org/pov/americanrevolutionary/

    3. There is no way for an Asian-American to become president based on the current status quo so that means they have to break away from their perceived ‘less than assertive behaviour’ to go beyond just an honorary proxy of the white man due to obedience and agreement only.
    4. As I alluded to, and based on the preponderance of this high IQ advantage, in the public domain it does not benefit Asian Americans. The definition of meritocracy is in order since Asians are rarely visible or seen as having the mental capability to assume positions of CEO or US corporation(s) leadership.
    5. The pattern of being POTUS rests on familial affiliation, where 90% (I am sure you can check me on this) of former and present presidents have said relationships whereas Asian Americans do not possess this.
    6. I am just using the oft reported statements of thses high IQ proponents as a way to show how in the long run, just words and beliefs having no relationship to reality.
    7. I do not know why you would state that Asians are overrepresentated in ‘academia’ while ‘whites’ are underrepresented. States rights’ are not for those people only so if a private institution accepts a group to its place of work or learning, it should be their business as they own it. Compared to pre-1970′s US America (and I harp on this continuously!), there are no laws that prohibit the group collectively designated as whites, to go to the back of the bus, or prevent them from voting, etc so I fail to see how your characterization is valid.
    8. The wordplay of ‘demographically” vs meritocratically’ is odd. If I use it to describe the skill of whites in basketball, it just does not play well as cognitive dissonance will show itself as such. Basketball is open to the extent that there are no hidden rules, there are cameras everywhere, scrutiny is high whereas in the hidden world of business (as example) back rooms proliferate secret stuff goes on that is not videotaped or youtubed and it is easy to hide and pretend. This means outcomes can be manipulated.

    • Replies: @guest
  187. denk says:

    garbage in , garbage out.

    u know, people like foo9, joe web, pissfactory are kept in the dark n fed bushit all day, that figures..

    the scary part is that they are the 99%, else how do the likes of bush, clinton, obama, keep being elected ?
    the fun part is they dont even know they got shafted by the 1% that they put into office !

    i often heard murkka critics say *i like the people, its the govn that’s rotten*,
    its high time to dispense with this pretense.

    good nite, mushrooms.’
    at time like this, it sure make one feel proud to be an murkkan eh ?
    hehehe

  188. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Santoculto

    genetic baseline + nutrition

    Japanese in Brazil are still brainy but less so than the ones in Japan.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  189. guest says:

    Phrases like “bamboo ceiling” are exactly the sort of thing Orwell warned us about, and are proof that we’re lazy thinkers and that we’re ripe for political domination. That being said, if the “[blank] ceiling” exists why don’t Chinaman start their own damn companies?

  190. anon • Disclaimer says:

    7. I do not know why you would state that Asians are overrepresentated in ‘academia’ while ‘whites’ are underrepresented.

    Well it’s quite simple. The official media enforced PC metric is mapping the numbers to percentage of the population and Asians are over represented by that official PC metric.

    Obviously the whole PC thing is bogus but it’s the public position.

    What you want is for Asian college places to be based on test scores and not PC but you’re using PC arguments about white discrimination to do it cos if you said

    - you want it to be all merit

    or

    - you want the same double standard that Jews get (which you already partly do)

    then the media would stomp you whereas if you blame it on white discrimination the media will give you a platform.

    So your whole position is fake.

    If you said

    - you want it all to be based on test scores

    or

    - you want the same double standard the Jews get

    then the bogus part of your argument disappears.

    Obviously you can still use it as it will be effective in the mainstream arena but among people who can add up it is obviously bogus.

  191. Ron Unz says:
    @Rdm

    Every invention remotely relevant to “Whiteness”, Joe feels really proud. He has been standing tall on all White greatness, as he believes… It doesn’t matter if someone from Serbia made some invention, as long as the inventor remotely looks like “White”, Joe feels proud.

    Yes, that’s a very important point. One reason there’s never been any sort of “White Nationalism” in Europe is that all the dozens of varied nationalities strongly regard each other as different peoples, often quite hostile ones. As an extreme example, Serbs and Croats speak the same language, have lived next to each other for many centuries, and I think are about as genetically similar as you can get. But I very much doubt any Croats will burst out in cheers over some great Serb achievement. Similarly, I wouldn’t expect too many Koreans to brag about it when a Japanese wins a Nobel Prize because of “Asian solidarity”…

    • Replies: @Rdm
    , @anowow
  192. guest says:
    @Anonymous

    It’s due to behavior, okay. Where does behavior come from? Out of the clear blue sky? Rational, personal choice? Hardly. Culture? Maybe, somewhat. But where does culture come from? Out of the clear blue sky? But I digress.

  193. guest says:
    @jack shindo

    Who cares whether or not they can be president? As if that’s something to aspire to. It may suggest certain other things they can’t do, but I consider it perverse to focus on that particular barrier.

  194. Truth says:

    As an extreme example, Serbs and Croats speak the same language, have lived next to each other for many centuries, and I think are about as genetically similar as you can get.

    …But only the Serbs have the good sense to write it in Cyrillic.

    • Replies: @anowow
  195. @anon

    I don’t buy completely ”nutrition magic”. First is necessary stablish the ceilling and limits of good and bad nutrition. Very lower and very greater diet of course will be a factor to cause excess of mutations and decrease cognitive skills.

    Japanese descendents in Brazil specially when they are compared with very extroverted/outgoing population here, behave much more similar with japaneses.

    Personality types have, in my opinion, greater influence in cognition skills and the rule is that both to be additional.

    • Replies: @anon
  196. Rdm says:
    @Ron Unz

    That’s what I felt too. So when someone, esp Joe claims all inventions are due to Whites, I rolled my eyes. It’s not like they like each other. It’s just a convenience to claim when you do look the part. As a matter of fact those who wants to receive credits just by having the look in fact might as well fail in real life. I highly doubt Bill Gates will have a luxury of time to comment here as to why Whites are so philanthropic while he’s himself busy with philanthropy. The most philanthropic people on earth also include Burmese, Joe. Not your typical Whiteness. The same goes for Asians as well. Those smart asses don’t have time to comment here, they’d better do well in tests.

    I visit this site here because rather than listening to MSM, I could have probably peaked into the sanity of the humans. But the stupidity abounds when someone arrogance renders the entire thread gone wrong.

    But I very much doubt any Croats will burst out in cheers over some great Serb achievement. Similarly, I wouldn’t expect too many Koreans to brag about it when a Japanese wins a Nobel Prize because of “Asian solidarity”…

    The same goes when Marie Curie won the Noble Prize twice, I highly doubt the entire Europeans will cheer.

  197. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Santoculto

    Iodine isn’t “nutrition magic”.

    (Although I agree “nutrition” when used generally is usually magic thinking.)

    Iodine deficiency is known to cause retardation so whatever natural average IQ level a population might have it will be lower if they are iodine deficient – this applies to everyone. The Japanese in Brazil make an interesting test case.

    (interesting to me anyway)

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  198. iffen says:

    Serbs and Croats. I thought one was Orthodox and one was Catholic. Did we just skip over that difference?

  199. anowow says:
    @Truth

    Spot on. Slavic languages are awful in Latin script. Polish spelling is way too complicated in order to compensate for all the sounds.

  200. @anon

    Interesting test case ?? Why??

    Yes i know Little about it.

  201. anowow says:
    @Ron Unz

    Narcissism of small differences at play? I always think of Turks vs. Greeks or Turks vs. Armenians when this sort of discussion is brought up. Granted, religious identity isn’t a small thing, but it does take some doing to ignore the fact that one looks like one’s enemy, eats almost the same food, lives in the same sort of house. But people do it, and they get uncomfortable when you point out the similarities, seizing on the subtle differences that an outsider would miss. Try discussing meat dumplings or music with anybody from the Caucasus. When confronted with real differences, this division can be reinforced as one group allies with aliens, or subtle differences can be ignored.

    In North American Native American history, some of the worse enemies were linguistically related; three examples that come to mind were the Crow and the Lakota, the Cree and the Blackfoot, and the Hurons and Iroquois. Of course, these conflicts, like most wars, were about territory and resources.

    Like the Anglo-Saxon/Teutonic bloodbath of 100 years ago, it just goes to show that even acknowledged kinship goes out the window when resources are at play or a regional system goes into crisis. Subsequent “Othering” of former kin is probably a psychological method of coping.

    • Agree: iffen
  202. @MarkinLA

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=iba&hsimp=yhs-1&type=smds_5236_CRW_US&p=Chinese+SAT+cheating

    Most of the SAT cheating stories I have read involve Chinese nationals. The universities know but don’t care. They pay full price and the inflated SATs make their incoming classes look smarter

    A link from the Yahoo search you highlighted:

    A group of 15 Chinese nationals are accused of orchestrating a vast conspiracy to help foreign students cheat on standardized college entrance exams administered in the U.S., in what appears to be one of the more brazen testing-related scandals in the past decade, according to a federal grand jury indictment unsealed Thursday.

    Time is letting itself get carried away by the prosecutor’s rhetoric. 15 people is hardly a vast conspiracy. Pat Boyle, who used to comment on Steve Sailer’s blog, notes that blacks routinely show up as defendants in lawsuits alleging incompetence, way out of proportion to their numbers in their respective professions, whereas Asians (used here as a proxy for Chinese) are under-represented, even relative to whites. If a significant number of Chinese obtained their professional qualifications by cheating, you’d expect them to be on the wrong end of such civil suits at a much higher rate. Chinese cheating probably sticks out for the same reason that robberies by Caucasian perps make headlines – nobody expects it.

  203. @MarkinLA

    Most of the SAT cheating stories I have read involve Chinese nationals. The universities know but don’t care. They pay full price and the inflated SATs make their incoming classes look smarter

    Twinkie, another of Sailer’s more statistical-minded commenters, points out that in their specialties, typically STEM fields, cheating really doesn’t get you very far – you can get into a school, but upon graduating, you can’t make a living faking it, given that most don’t end up in management:

    In the social sciences, this is what is known as a “mismatch.” You can’t fake knowledge of, and competence in, fields like electrical engineering or medicine for any length of time. It’s not impossible, but highly unlikely and extraordinarily difficult, so all but impossible. And any large scale cheating would result in easily identifiable mismatch later – something one sees with affirmative action cases (e.g. black doctors and their board certification rates – take a wild guess).

    And this is the question that people like “Education Realist” who have axes to grind against Asians cannot and choose not to answer. The mismatch is simply not there. And you can’t “fake” the boards as a doctors. Part of the testing is discursive… in front of several experts in the field.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  204. Doorway says:

    “That’s why you’re so popular around her, Derb; You use every opportunity to mash your in-laws faces into the wall, but Reed reveres his like the Virgin Marry appeared in one of Mom’s tortillas.”

    -As opposed to someone who pretends to be a descendant of American slaves so he can rant on their behalf while in reality, he’s the descendant of Egyptian slaves?

  205. Hugo says:
    @Truth

    I can’t? I just did. He’s a nerdy mudshark.

  206. Jim says:
    @Doorway

    I have visited Hong Kong and Taiwan. I have also visited Singapore.

  207. Jim says:
    @OilcanFloyd

    Certainly more representative data on the IQ of the Han Chinese would be desirable. I would be surprised though if it were a great deal lower than the Japanese or Korean average IQ.

  208. Henry says:
    @D. K.

    Please, do not use this horrible term for white people: “non-Hispanic White-gentile”. Defining yourself by non membership in another group, and a less accomplished one at that, is pure cultural cuckoldry.

    • Replies: @D. K.
  209. dcite says:
    @Rdm

    While I don’t approve of arrogant boasting, even if you do feel personally responsible, I am not sure why this “Joe” is supposed to be so goofy for citing achivements of Europeans (and by the way, almost all Europeans — think of Serbs here–look more than just “remotely” white. They look white.) When they come to America, all the different Euros from Sweden to Serbic to Sicilia to Estonia to France and Holland, have married fairly freely, and with next to no racial angst involved, though perhaps a lot of cultural baggage for a while.
    Blacks descended from West and Central Africans (most American blacks) see no problem taking credit for Egyptians’ accomplishments (whoever the hell they really were). Ethiopians in Ethiopia do not think of themselves as blacks, but in America they do group with them, and doubtless identify with them, especially if they were born in America. Over the years, blacks have claimed affinity with any numbe of unlikely races. Everywhere from ancient Greece, to China, to India, to North and South America, the Irish (yes), Vikings (really–at least once) and the Easter Islands, have, at some time, been claimed as black. Don’t ask me how. I’m just reporting what I’ve read and heard.
    Asians when they get out of their respective countries, and are in America, suddenly (often) just become “Asians” and do quite a bit of mutual cheer leading in the arts, politics, and academics.
    So don’t try that “Europeans don’t all like each other stuff” as if it were some manifestly impossible occurrence. We’re not talking personal here. Obviously nobody in the world likes another person just because they are the same “race.” But depending on the context, it’s amazing how together they can become, for their own protection, defense, offences, or aggrandizement. That is the history of the world.
    I think whites in America are on the edge of that kind of (probably false, but evident) solidarity, as they become minorities in too many milieus their own ancestors created.
    If one race is told to be “proud of their race”, than no logical, just person, is going to stop with that one race. It will continue. And that good, right? To be proud of your race? Right?
    As French is one of seven European nationalities I can claim, I am indeed proud of Mms. Curies’s French husband and her French nationality. Most people forget she was really Polish.

    • Replies: @Rdm
  210. @jimmyriddle

    If you mean Dubya,as “w” above, then do kindly keep in mind that he was a fighter jock specializing in Lockheed F-106 Mach2+ delta wing interceptors… which in fact were never deployed in the VN theatre, and which in any case were considerably more dangerous to fly even stateside as compared with the gigs of the 80% or so of vets who served in VN as REMFs”, i.e., rear echelon motherf**kers, as we actual grunts called them back in the day. NTTAWWT, as even then we thought… as long as they didn’t butch it inappropriately, in recounting what they did in the war, daddy.

  211. Rdm says:
    @dcite

    You’re right on feeling proud of one’s own race or achievement. There’s nothing wrong with that. Apt display of one’s own achievement would even serve as a healthy dose of pride in one’s own nation.

    Just because Whites do look like each other doesn’t mean they will compromise their ideals and will let other White person to achieve. The same applies in all other races too.

    If you’re White and feeling proud of being Whites or feeling high due to your forefathers, ancestors achievement whatever they’re from (Serb, Croats, Ukraine, French, …), you have every right to feel proud. I’m not saying you shouldn’t. In fact, if you don’t, there’s something wrong with your identity at least.

    The sole reason I brought up especially Joe is because of his utter nonsense when it comes to dealing with discussions regarding Asians. There’s not only Joe here, there are a few other commenters here who disarray any discussions into totally irrelevant ones.

    Now you feel proud of Marie Curie who is actually Polish, and we happen to discuss here. But I will disarray this discussion with my anecdote on personal encounter with French, how lousy they are in speaking English, how atrocious their English accents are, how gay they are, frog eating French, how French women are promiscuous, even when they are in a relationship, they tend to cheat (French Institute of Public Opinion and Pew Study) (My real personal anecdote can also account to this).

    Those anecdotes, stereotypes, derogatory remarks doesn’t add anything to the discussion. If Whites feel like minority and wants to establish solidarity, there’s no need to derail the thread with anecdotes, especially in Unz. If you want, there are several outlets where one can recount their anecdotes.

    Obviously nobody in the world likes another person just because they are the same “race.” But depending on the context, it’s amazing how together they can become, for their own protection, defense, offences, or aggrandizement. That is the history of the world.

    I’m totally on the same page here. There’s no Asian solidarity, there’s no whatever solidarity. There’s only convenience solidarity when your stakes are high. I have no problem with that. The problem is when you are having a semi-serious discussion, it’s annoying when someone comes up with totally irrelevant anecdotes and derail the thread.

  212. map says:
    @Joe Franklin

    Here is a nice asian set-aside

    [MORE]

    Josephine Arnold
    Chief Counsel
    [email protected] [1]
    Tel: (202) 482-5461
    Fax: (202) 482-1467
    MBDA Website
    Minority Business Development Agency [2]
    Quick Links
    Minority Business Development Agency
    Executive Order 11625 [3]
    MBDA Research Reports [4]
    MBDA Grant Competitions and Key Initiatives [5]
    Related Links
    Minority Enterprise Development (MED) Week [6]
    CommerceConnect [7]
    U.S. Department of Justice Civil Rights Division [8]
    Published on Department of Commerce (http://2010-2014.commerce.gov)
    Minority Business Development Agency
    Welcome
    The Office of the Chief Counsel for the Minority
    Business Development Agency (OCC/MBDA)
    provides legal and policy advice to the MBDA
    National Director, and to the Agency’s headquarters
    and five regional offices, covering all aspects of
    MBDA’s operations and programs. MBDA functions
    as a primary operating bureau of the U.S.
    Department of Commerce and is authorized by
    Executive Order 11625. MBDA’s mission is to foster
    the establishment, growth and global
    competitiveness of the nation’s minority business
    enterprises (MBEs).
    Office Description
    OCC/MBDA is led by the Chief Counsel, who is
    resident in MBDA’s headquarters office in
    Washington, D.C. The Chief Counsel provides legal
    and strategic counseling to MBDA with respect to
    the Agency’s powers, duties and responsibilities, as
    well as its relationship with the Department of
    Commerce, other federal government agencies and external stakeholders. MBDA’s programs and initiatives are varied and
    range from the provision of strategic business consulting to MBEs, assisting MBEs in competing for contract opportunities
    and in securing public and private business financings, to a robust knowledge management and information dissemination
    program. In addition, MBDA maintains an active portfolio of over 45 financial assistance awards (structured as cooperative
    agreements) to support public and private organizations that operate minority business centers and the Chief Counsel
    provides advice to the Agency on legal and program matters pertaining to such awards. The Chief Counsel further advises
    the MBDA National Director and senior Agency staff on constitutional, administrative law and legislative matters potentially
    affecting the MBE community and MBDA programs.
    Overview of MBDA’s Legal Authorities and the Definition of a “Minority
    Business Enterprise”
    MBDA was originally established as the Office of Minority Business Enterprise by President Nixon on March 5, 1969 through
    Executive Order 11458 (34 FR 4937). By establishing a federal agency dedicated exclusively to promoting equal economic
    opportunities for MBEs, President Nixon recognized the impact of such businesses on the nation’s economy and on the
    general welfare of the country.
    Minority Business Development Agency http://2010-2014.commerce.gov/print/os/ogc/minority-business-develop&#8230;
    1 of 2 8/24/2015 11:08 PM
    On October 13, 1971, President Nixon issued Executive Order 11625(36 FR 19967), which clarified MBDA’s authority and
    expanded the scope of its operations. The Agency continues to be authorized by Executive Order 11625, as amended, and
    receives annual appropriations from Congress. The authorities and responsibilities vested in the Secretary of Commerce
    under Executive Order 11625 are delegated to the MBDA National Director pursuant to Department Organizational Order
    (DOO) 25-4A.
    Under Section 1(a) of Executive Order 11625, MBDA is responsible for:
    Coordinating the plans, programs and operations of federal agencies to strengthen MBEs (Section 1(a)(1));
    Promoting the mobilization of activities and resources of state and local governments, businesses and trade
    associations, universities, foundations, professional organizations towards the growth of MBEs (Section 1(a)(2));
    Establishing a center for the development, collection and dissemination of information that will be useful to MBEs
    and to interested stakeholders (Section 1(a)(3)); and
    Issuing, in the Secretary’s discretion, financial assistance awards to public and private organizations so they may
    render technical and management assistance to MBEs (Section 1(a)(4)).
    Executive Order 11625 also contains a precatory Section 1(b) that grants MBDA certain other authorities, to the extent that
    they are necessary or appropriate to carrying out the mandatory duties described above. Among other things, Section 1(b) of
    Executive Order 11625 authorizes the Secretary to:
    Work with other federal departments and agencies to develop comprehensive plans and programs to support equal
    economic opportunities for MBEs (Section 1(b)(1));
    Review all proposed federal training and technical assistance activities supporting MBEs (Section 1(b)(2));
    Convene meetings of federal departments or agencies whose programs and activities impact MBEs (Section 1(b)(3));
    Provide the managerial and organizational framework to facilitate joint or collaborative undertakings with federal
    departments or agencies (Section 1(b)(6)); and
    Recommend appropriate legislative or executive actions (Section 1(b)(7)).
    For purposes of determining eligibility to receive MBDA services, an MBE is defined as a business concern that is owned or
    controlled by the following persons or groups of persons that are also U.S. citizens or resident aliens admitted for lawful
    admission to the United States: African Americans, Hispanics, Asian and Pacific Islander Americans, Native Americans
    (including Alaska Natives, Alaska Native Corporations and Tribal entities), Asian Indians and Hasidic Jews. See 15 CFR §
    1400.1 and Executive Order 11625. It is important to note that there is no cross-cutting federal MBE classification and the
    above definition does not serve to establish eligibility for federal programs or services outside of those offered by MBDA.
    Source URL (retrieved on 08/25/2015 – 12:08am): http://2010-2014.commerce.gov/os/ogc/minoritybusiness-
    development-agency
    Page Links:
    [1] http://2010-2014.commerce.gov/contact/jvertman/mbda/gov
    [2] http://www.mbda.gov/
    [3] http://www.mbda.gov/main/who-mbda/executive-order-11625
    [4] http://www.mbda.gov/?section_id=6
    [5] http://www.mbda.gov/?section_id=9
    [6] http://www.medweek.gov/
    [7] http://2010-2014.commerce.gov/about-commerce/commerce-services-offices-near-you/commerce-connect
    [8] http://www.justice.gov/crt/
    Minority Business Development Agency http://2010-2014.commerce.gov/print/os/ogc/minority-business-develop&#8230;
    2 of 2 8/24/2015 11:08 PM

    • Replies: @map
  213. map says:
    @Travis

    Yes, what this means is that Asians are very good…at school. What companies and universities are discovering is that Asian test scores over-predict Asian success in the real world. Asians do not do as well as their test scores would predict.

    This is because civilization is not a civil service exam.

    This is how you get the unusual result of Asians having high IQ’s by psychometric measures, yet being incapable of actually inventing any of the disciplines they are supposedly good at. This is why Asians have not led civilizationally, culturally, militarily, technologically or scientifically in over 1,000 years.

    They are just grinders, robots good at mimicry and fully capable of copying, but unable to lead or invent. This is why much technological progress has ground to a halt ever since the Asian presence became greater since the 1970′s. The are replicating their lack of scientific achievement within the university lab itself.

    • Replies: @Santoculto
  214. @map

    ”They are”….

    Wrong way to start a phrase.

  215. @Astuteobservor II

    He didn’t say “the student body should be divided by population percentage.” He said “the racial makeup of the student body should be a function of the overall demographic proportion of the race and that race’s relative academic aptitude,” which is basically the opposite of what you said. What his statement means is that academic aptitude should be the sole criterion for determining who gets into what school, but racial “population percentage” will naturally affect the number of people from each race that exhibit academic aptitude above a given level. Even if you are too dumb to correctly interpret the quoted statement above, you should have been able to grasp his meaning by reading the statements he followed up with: “Since Jews and Asians are smarter than white gentiles, one would rightly expect more of them than their demographic proportions warrant. Blacks and Hispanics, on the other hand, being dumber than other races on average, should make up less of the student body than their demographic proportions warrant.”

  216. map says:
    @map

    For those of you who do not want to read the whole thing, here is the salient paragraph:

    For purposes of determining eligibility to receive MBDA services, an MBE is defined as a business concern that is owned or
    controlled by the following persons or groups of persons that are also U.S. citizens or resident aliens admitted for lawful
    admission to the United States: African Americans, Hispanics, Asian and Pacific Islander Americans, Native Americans
    (including Alaska Natives, Alaska Native Corporations and Tribal entities), Asian Indians and Hasidic Jews. See 15 CFR §

    These are small business loans and government set asides that go a long way toward making a “model minority”

  217. Svigor says:

    how could u say i didnt ans bill’s question ?

    bill
    *whats wrong with racism* ?

    i already told him its murkkan racism that enabled three centuries of racist wars on the *gooks, chinks, sand niggers, japs….*

    heck, how could i miss out them *injuns* ?

    Brilliant answer. Anyone can do it:

    *what’s wrong with technology* ?

    “Technology enabled wars throughout the entirety of human history.”

    *what’s wrong with civilization* ?

    “Civilization enabled every war humanity has ever fought.”

    *what’s wrong with language* ?

    “Language has made possible every war mankind has ever fought.”

    So, racism is bad, but not nearly as bad as technology, civilization, and speech.

    Way to go there, genius.

  218. Svigor says:

    Dink, slope, whatever your name is, fix up your own back yard.

  219. MarkinLA says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Getting am MD takes a whole lot less brains than many fields. It is just the ticket for bland grinder Asians who never go into research and never do much beside hand out the pills the pharmaceutical company rep pushes. I have had many Asian doctors who weren’t worth a nickel as well as many whites – they knew less than I did about a topic since I was researching my own problem.

    Medical school is all about grinding rote memorization.

    The issue isn’t that Asians are somehow worthless and stupid. It is that they do not perform at an extremely high level outside of the classroom and without some external supervision. It is that they do not perform at the level their elevated test scores would suggest. And yes you can make a living being a mediocre doctor or engineer.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  220. D. K. says:
    @Henry

    I was trying to be precise, as I was trained to do, in a variety of academic disciplines. “White,” in the United States, by government definition, includes many besides those I have included, with that long-winded phrase. I would like to say just “indigenous Europeans”– but even Iberians are considered oppressed “people of color,” the moment that they immigrate to the United States!

  221. @Beach

    It depends on how they get through the process. You would want to check their admissions data and look closely.

    Recently, a current student of mine from the PRC wanted to apply to Hampshire College (!!!) and asked me for a recommendation letter. I took one look at her Prelim results (the exam they take before their actual ‘A’ levels), and flatly told her: no way. She insisted, so I caved and told her to hammer out her personal essay portion first and let me have a look (IOW, clean it up).

    Grammar-wise, her essay wasn’t too bad. But in terms of context, the personality she tried to show, it was all negative. I simply threw it back in her face and asked her to think real hard about it. She finally decided she had better focus on her actual exams before indulging in these shenanigans. LOL.

    I guess maybe that’s why applicants (PRC or otherwise) from Singapore get a bit more legitimacy when applying to US colleges, because we still demand some standards and effort from the students instead of just typing out for them a nice fabricated piece of illusionary perfection. And a number of PRC students even take our A Level exams as private candidates (they usually don’t do well tho…).

    A few are, I suspect, exactly such kids, scions of rich PRC officials or businessmen who couldn’t swing their kids into our mainstream schools. They need to do relatively well at the O levels to enter our Junior Colleges, and no, all the money in the world cannot get them into Raffles Institution if they cannot qualify on the score criterion. So they borrow some legitimacy from our system, and it’s known that our exams are notoriously difficult.

    Of course, the really rich ones can just hire writers for their essays, maybe even other students to take their exams (even our A levels!) for them. But the legitimacy of their essays and their exam results would, in the long term, be severely degraded and highly suspected. These colleges may want the money and donations, but not to the point where they could damage their reputation and be regarded as ‘easy’.

  222. @MarkinLA

    The issue isn’t that Asians are somehow worthless and stupid. It is that they do not perform at an extremely high level outside of the classroom and without some external supervision. It is that they do not perform at the level their elevated test scores would suggest.

    If this assertion were true, we’d expect to see more Asian professionals per capita on the wrong end of lawsuits alleging incompetence than whites or blacks.

  223. Doorway says:

    Something they seem to have an affinity for, is making things needlessly complicated then viewing this as evidence of cleverness. The use of thousands and thousands of characters instead of an alphabet is just one example. But even that is worse than most westerners know. In English, if you are writing the letter ‘E’ no one cares whether you write the top line first or last, or write that stroke from left to right or vice versa, as long as it is a legible E. The Chinese expect students to learn a precise series of “strokes” for how to write each character. And if a Chinese student gets it wrong, then they haven’t learned the character. This of course makes learning the characters much. The list of needless complications go on and on- Confucian exams, companies intentionally making tasks require extra jobs to employ extra workers, etc…

  224. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    “The fixation of HBD spergs on standardized tests is maddening—I guess there’s nothing to be done about it, though: spergs are going to fixate on something stupid.”

    And so with the realization that standardized testing isn’t as good of a reflection of IQ as it’s long been made out to believe and that a significant number of indian and chinese students cheat, game the system etc. leads to another kind of spergery- asian students (or maybe asians in general) are actually unremarkable or flat out dumb. To wit:

    “Controlling for test scores and grades, whites at university are noticeably better than Chinese, Indians, and Jews. Chinese-Americans are especially awful. Whites are not necessarily better in the sense of getting better grades, but definitely in the sense of learning more and doing more, intellectually, with the knowledge.”

    Bullshit. It’s one thing to notice asian students (of recent years, atleast) to a sizable degree aren’t all they’re cracked up to be, but to act like this is that pervasive is nuts, and even saying this of jews. True, they’re over-represented due to AA, but even speaking of them in the same vein as recent indian and chinese students?

    “If you were to control for test scores and grades, whites would mop the floor with chinks, coolies and kikes. Whites aren’t necessarily better in the sense of getting better grades, but definitely in the sense of doing more, intellectually, with knowledge. Like building natural gas pipelines. Chinks and kikes, they’re the ones who really care about money, status and power, not the good old white man.”

  225. @D. K.

    DK,
    1. I do not believe in the IQ validity test for POTUS and never have but it is oft repeated just for repetition sake by those talking heads, whomever they may be!
    2. My main point is that if Asians in USA are so much of a model minority, don’t you think that because they exceed all the criteria of their white facilitators, said Asians would be, at best 50% of CEOs, 50% or more of the US Congress and by this stage (2016) at least 1 Asian POTUS
    3. If Trump can get this far…….and he has less of all the positive achievements that Asians are stated to have in their tool box

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