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WHAT’S WRONG with CHINA–A Study of Unchanged National Character
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WHAT’S WRONG WITH CHINA by Paul MidlerThe Chinese sure can be exasperating. Paul Midler writes in his new book What’s Wrong with China:

No one is sure when it began, but the phrase “I’m having a bad China day” has become synonymous with the expatriate experience … Those who become testy in this country are not limited to the cholerically predisposed. China has a way of also taking easygoing milquetoasts and turning them into hotheads. The phenomenon is so common that long-term expatriates have coined various terms: The Laowai Wigout, The Expat Snap, and Angry Foreigner Syndrome are three such expressions floating around the bigger metropolitan areas.

(Laowai is the common—informal, non-hostile—Chinese term for a foreigner, equivalent to Japanese gaijin. Pronunciation here. During my own China days in the early 1980s the usual expat term for the syndrome under discussion here was “China Fatigue.” I, a representative of the easygoing milquetoast community, recall experiencing one or two episodes.)

Paul Midler is an Old China Hand. He has lived and worked in China for more than twenty years, mainly as a business consultant helping foreign firms in their dealings with Chinese manufacturers. His wife is Chinese. His 2009 book Poorly Made in China (reviewed by me here) is wonderfully informative on the Chinese way of doing business.

These two books of his are in a fine old tradition, to which Midler pays homage in the very title of this latter one.

I encountered that tradition myself when studying Chinese in London thirty-eight years ago. I had a reader’s ticket to the magnificent library of SOAS, the School of Oriental and African Studies, and spent whole days there, in the stacks of the China section.

I can read Chinese only with difficulty, though; so after two or three hours of intense cognitive effort I would, for relaxation, drift over to the shelves of English-language books about China.

The items that most got my interest there were the memoirs and diaries of foreigners living in China during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries—the late-imperial and republican period.

The SOAS library has a great collection of these, almost all by authors whose names have sunk into oblivion: missionaries, merchants, diplomats, adventurers, and oddities like the botanist Robert Fortune. (Who was one of the most upbeat: “In no country in the world is there less real misery and want than in China.” That was written in the mid-1840s.)

One particularly striking book in that genre is Rodney Gilbert’s What’s Wrong with China, first published in 1926. I was so taken with this book, I acquired a copy of my own from the second-hand shelves at Probsthain’s oriental bookstore, around the corner from SOAS.

I still have that copy: so there are now two books on my own shelves with exactly the same title but by different authors, published 92 years apart.

Rodney Gilbert wrote with a frankness about race that would make his book utterly unpublishable nowadays, and he sometimes slipped into the supercilious diction of a Victorian lady complaining about the servants. At one point he actually does complain about his servants.

Also, Gilbert’s partiality for his own race occasionally led him into error. He recounts, for instance, the episode from the Battle of Maldon in a.d. 991 when the Anglo-Saxon leader allowed his Viking enemies to ford a waterway and form up for battle before he attacked them. No Chinese leader, said Gilbert, would ever show such chivalry.

Wrong! In fact there is a closely parallel incident in Chinese history from the Battle of Hongshui (638 b.c.), the source of a well-known remark of Mao Tse-tung’s.

If you can get past all that, though, Rodney Gilbert, writing a long lifetime ago, had some penetrating insights into China’s history, culture, and national character.

Most of those insights are of a negative kind. For a person so intimately acquainted with the Chinese people, he seems not to have liked them much. His keynote, which he returns to again and again, is:

In China the psychic flame burns low, for want of fuel.

Gilbert is not uniformly negative, though. He gives credit where he thinks it’s due.

Like all Orientals, [the Chinese] have a strong dramatic sense, and a professional storyteller, speaking his primitive and undeveloped language [by comparison with the classical style of the scholarly literati, Gilbert means], can rise to heights in characterization, description, narrative and metaphor to which not one Occidental in ten thousand could aspire in his own tongue. An infallible sense of rhythm and cadence is born in the great majority of Chinese. In ordinary speech, they divide their sentences up into euphoniously balanced periods …

Paul Midler quotes Rodney Gilbert numerous times in this new book for which he has borrowed Gilbert’s title. He also quotes many other foreign commentators from that late-imperial, early-republican period.

I get the impression Midler had the same experience I had when studying Chinese. But for a few years’ difference in the dates of our studies, we might unknowingly have bumped into each other among the stacks in SOAS library.

Much water has of course flowed under the bridge since those earlier observers wrote. Midler, however, does not think the quality of observation has improved.

It is curious that books written on China in the 1960s—Dennis Bloodworth’s The Chinese Looking-Glass is an example—should read finer than most of what is produced these days, and that even these books pale in comparison to the works of the previous generation. The trend appears to go back quite some time. In the 1930s, Ralph Townsend was convinced that his contemporaries wrote nothing as accurate as that which was produced by Arthur Smith [1890s] and Abbé Huc [1840s]…

Economic and technological progress alone ought to have made it easier to watch China; but modernity, as it turns out, had actually a negative influence …

You will find more insights in a book written one hundred years ago than in something written last month.

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I think that’s right as a generalization. Reading it, in fact, brought to mind something I have I found myself thinking rather often in recent years: The much-discussed Flynn Effect notwithstanding, we are in some important, unquantified way stupider than our forebears of a hundred years ago.

Paul Midler is, however, an exception to that generalization. His observations, based on those twenty years of wrangling with Chinese exporters, take us right back to the unsparing, unillusioned critiques of those old Old China Hands.

Like them, he is eloquent on the ferociously optimizing skills in negotiation that Chinese people bring to commercial transactions.

Chinese factory owners hate to see their customers happy, because it means that money has been left on the table.

Similarly with Chinese customers. A Chinese friend of mine, once established in America, decided to buy a car. He picked the model he wanted, went to a showroom, and began haggling. So persistent was he—“Oh come on, you can give me another fifty dollars on that!”—they threw him out, almost literally. Two of the salesmen pushed him into the street, one at each elbow.

That,” he exulted, telling me the story, “was when I knew I’d found their price!”

The downside of this high level of commercial acumen is long-term commercial failure. Chinese merchants can’t resist the temptation to kill the golden goose for the sake of a couple more cents on the dollar.

Midler tells the story of tea, which I think is quite well-known. Given that tea is native to China, not (except very marginally) to India, why did the West end up drinking Indian tea, not Chinese tea? Midler:

The tea industry collapsed in part because growers were sending leaves to market without drying them. This was not a time-saving maneuver. It was done because wet leaves weigh more, and the additional weight brought in more revenue. The problem with moisture is that it leads to mold, which affects taste.

Some similar style of cheating may have affected the opium trade, with dire consequences.

In the grand scale of psychoactive substances, opium as smoked in China from the seventeenth century onwards is not exceptionally harmful. A wealthy Chinese opium smoker “’does not seem much the worse’ for his habit,” noted an 1890s observer (quoted by Midler).

So why was opium smoking so devastating among China’s poor? Adulteration, says Midler. In the extreme, a cheap variety named Hankow Cake contained no opium at all, only sesame seeds. Midler:

Historians are so hell-bent on blaming the West for everything that went wrong with China in the nineteenth century that they have no room for an investigation into the serious possibility that the nation may have actually poisoned itself.

I would like to see some rigorous historical research on that, but it’s not implausible, and fits very well with the tiresome Chinese bellyaching about the wrongs done to them by foreigners.

Chinese people acknowledge that an individual fellow-countryman may be wicked, but China as a nation can do no wrong.

National self-esteem is of course not an exclusively Chinese phenomenon. We Americans—well, some of us—treasure our “exceptionalism.” Chinese propagandists take it to the extreme, though.

Midler calls it “collective narcissism” and quotes Lucian Pye, writing fifty years ago:

Nothing can be wrong with the Chinese spirit and their inward identity. All problems must lie outside and therefore be the work of “foreigners.”

The most wince-inducing aspect of this national trait is the frequent announcements out of Peking that some action by some foreign government—holding a meeting with the Dalai Lama, for example— has “hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.” Poor things! [Why so sensitive? A complete history of China’s ‘hurt feelings’, by David Bandurski, Hong Kong Free Press, January 29, 2016]

Midler shows that there is nothing communist, or at all modern, about this ploy. He tracks it back to a 1901 article written by Wu Ting-fang, an official in the imperial government, who implored foreign critics to “respect the feelings of the Chinese.” Our author really has read everything.

That point, and many others Paul Midler has drawn from his reading and his commercial dealings, reinforces the grand theme of foreign commentary on China down through the ages: continuity.

The great event in China’s twentieth-century history was Mao Tse-tung’s revolution. Mao boasted that he would re-make China into a socialist utopia.

No such thing happened. In fact nothing much happened. There was a spell of turmoil, to be sure; but when the dust settled, all was as before under Heaven.

The supreme ruler possesses the same attributes and discharges the same functions; the governing classes are chosen in the same manner; the people are bound in the same state of servitude, and enjoy the same practical liberty; all is now as it was.

—Boulger’s History of China (1881).

Leszek Kolakowski in Main Currents of Marxism described Mao Tse-tung Thought as “a naïve repetition of a few commonplaces of Leninist-Stalinist Marxism.” He allows, however, that Mao was “one of the greatest, if not the very greatest, manipulator of large masses of human beings in the twentieth century.”

So Maoism was a cheap Chinese knock-off of Marxism-Leninism. Once Mao’s extraordinary personality ceased to drive events, the political system quickly reverted to the imperial norm.

The continuity of national character comes out clearly in Paul Midler’s use of older commentators. Mao’s revolution, for all its upheavals and horrors, had very little effect on the national psyche, perhaps none at all.

To speak of a “national psyche” nowadays, however, is to trespass into the minefield of Political Incorrectness. The Scots are mean, we used to say blithely; the French are arrogant; the Germans are orderly; the Italians, excitable; the Russians, gloomy; the Irish, pugnacious; and so on.

Saying such things aloud in 2018 will get you horse-whipped on the steps of your club; but common observation suggests that there is some underlying reality to these unmentionable old perceptions, as is usually the case with stereotypes.

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(In the current enstupidated condition of our public discourse about human nature, the weary commentator is obliged to add that these are statistical generalities. Of course there exist generous Scots, humble Frenchmen, disorganized Germans, placid Italians, and cheerful Russians. There may even be placatory Irishmen: I don’t know, I couldn’t say.)

The Chinese in this schema are characterized by love of money and addiction to gambling. Midler:

Whenever you read about a stampede in India, you can rest assured that it has taken place during a religious festival. In Europe, stampedes that result in death usually happen at sporting events. In China, the mad rush of a crowd almost always has something to do with economics. A sales promotion on cooking oil and rumors of a rice shortage have both sent Chinese into frenzied action.

What, then, is wrong with China? Paul Midler offers many suggestions.

He tells us for example that the Chinese, their colossal national self-regard notwithstanding, have no faith in the permanence of their political arrangements. All Chinese people, including the rulers, have internalized the dynastic cycle. Every Chinese person knows the opening words of a classic novel written seven hundred years ago:

What was long divided must unite,

What was long united must divide.

Much, says Midler, flows from this; the passion to get while the getting is good, the gambling instinct, the leaders’ determination to put off the inevitable day of dissolution as long as possible by fierce repression, and so on.

The Chinese also nurse ambivalence about their relation to the other peoples of the world. For long millennia the situation was clear to them: they were a civilized enclave surrounded by barbarians.

The nineteenth-century encounter with Europeans woke China from this particular opium dream, but they have not yet found an alternative equilibrium point on which to rest their identity.

Rodney Gilbert thought the Chinese of ninety years ago yearned to be isolated once again. If he was right, Mao Tse-tung fulfilled that yearning, isolating China for thirty years. The results were not altogether satisfactory, and now China poses as a nation among other nations.

The pronouncements of China’s leaders, though, suggest that their hearts aren’t really in it. Chinese nationalism is something other than Westphalian; Chinese globalism, as currently manifested in the Belt and Road initiative, has a clumsy, out-of-tune quality to it, so that it inspires not admiration and respect, only suspicion and fear.

China’s internal governance, too, is chronically unstable. Midler:

China is a vase teetering on its edge, and maintaining balance has been a goal throughout its history.

He goes on to give an account of post-1949 China’s lurching from centralization to decentralization and back.

None of this should be taken as a slander on the Chinese, although of course it will be so taken. They, like the rest of us, have emerged as they are, in all their distinctness, from the long slow churnings of history, geography, and population genetics.

And, as Paul Midler writes:

Much of what’s wrong with China is actually something wrong within us. We are too fond of this country. We are too forgiving. We willingly have amnesia on the basis that we care.

He is writing there about the remarkably un-advertised fact that the Chinese have conducted many massacres of foreigners.

Why are so many of us so forgivingly fond of this exasperating, paradoxical, unstable place? Paul Midler quotes from the answer given by Progressive sociologist Edward Alsworth Ross in 1911.

Chinese are extremely likable and those who have known them longest like them best. Almost invariably those who harshly disparage them are people who are coarse or narrow or bigoted. They are not a sour or sullen folk. Smile at them and back comes a look that puts you on a footing of mutual understanding. Their lively sense of humor is a bond that unites them to the foreigner.

Ross (1866-1951) is an odd person for Midler to quote in this context. He would himself be denounced as the worst kind of bigot today. He was a race realist, nativist, and eugenicist who strongly objected to race mixing—so strongly, he was fired from his professorship at Stanford in 1900 for his views.

Much as he liked the Chinese, Ross did not want them settling in the U.S.A. This is a perfectly tenable position, although intolerably shocking to present-day orthodoxies.

Ross got the likability right, though, and “those who have known them longest like them best.” (Rodney Gilbert may have been an exception.)

And to the further collective credit of the Chinese must be added this: Unlike the nations of the West today, they have no intention of opening up the borders of their nation to tens of millions of foreigners. Stupidity on that scale is peculiarly Western.

What’s wrong with us?

2010-12-24dl[1] John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com:FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: History • Tags: China, Chinese 
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  1. Ron Unz says:

    For anyone interested, here’s a convenient copy of E.A. Ross’s 1911 book on the Chinese as mentioned above. Ross was one of America’s greatest early sociologists, and I’d recommend it very highly:

    http://www.unz.com/book/e_a_ross__the-changing-chinese/

  2. fnn says:

    In the 1930s, Ralph Townsend was convinced that his contemporaries wrote nothing as accurate as that which was produced by Arthur Smith [1890s] and Abbé Huc [1840s]…

    Ralph Townsend was an interesting character (like apparently everyone mentioned) who was heavily persecuted by the FDR admin for his views:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Townsend

    Following the US entry into World War II Townsend was arrested for acting as a Japanese agent without registering under the Foreign Agents Registration Act. He pleaded guilty, admitting that he had accepted payments before the war from a propaganda organization funded by the Japanese government, but denying that he was a Japanese agent. He received a prison sentence and while serving was involved in the Great Sedition Trial.

    In 2004 a Japanese translation of the Barnes Review edition of Ways That Are Dark was released in Japan where it became a runaway success[121] and quickly elevated Townsend to “hero” status among the Japanese far right.[122]

    The opinion of recent scholars on the quality of his writing have been mixed. Limin Chu, who analyzed his articles on China for the Overland Monthly and Out West Magazine, considered some of the claims as “either incredibly gullible or deliberately vicious”,[123] while historian Justus Doenecke described his pamphlets as “crudely written”.[124] In contrast, Peter O’Connor, professor at Musashino University, found the same pamphlets “well-argued and researched.”[125]

    No surprise that the white guy working in Japan likes him.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
  3. anon • Disclaimer says:

    “What’s wrong with us”?

    I have been asking myself that very question for a long time. Canada, Australia, New Zealand & the USA were all settled and developed by white peoples. Why they have permitted such massive demographic changes, which would have horrified previous generations, is something I simply cannot understand. We were told that Canada couldn’t “function” in the British commonwealth & the UN with a (more or less) white only immigration policy. Why Canada couldn’t have just left these pointless and moribund organiations I don’t understand. I personally suspect it had something to do with vote-hunting by the Liberal party (please substitute the party of the left in the other places).

  4. “No one is sure when it began, but the phrase “I’m having a bad China day” has become synonymous with the expatriate experience …”

    Related:

    • Replies: @ve1
  5. jim jones says:

    Have a heart attack in China and people will just walk around you:

    • Replies: @Moi
    , @anonymous
    , @in the middle
  6. gT says:

    Good to see a more or less proper academic investigation into this phenomena. I’ve only noticed it in the last year or 2, on most websites the Western doctrine of more or less adherence to truth and reason held comfortably firm with some NeoCon and nitwit exceptions, but then the Chinese doctrine of chaotic, illogical vitriol just flooded in. I was taken aback for awhile but now just respond in kind with some tax added on top.

    Some say that the Cultural Revolution destroyed the roots of Chinese culture and “Add in the deprivation, the cannibalism, the starvation, and what was left of the Chinese people when Deng started his reforms were an amoral lot seeking wealth and fortune at any cost. Can’t really blame them.” But your article makes it clear that this Chinese mindset has always been there and so will never change, much like the Jewish view of their position on this planet and on the Goyim has always been there and will never change.

    Good to see something different being written instead of the usual “West is Bad, China is good” nonsense which as been flooding the internet for some time now. There is good and bad in everything, in both the West and China.

  7. Realist says:

    “What’s wrong with us?”

    No pride in self.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    , @Weaver1
    , @Anonymous
  8. Jason Liu says:

    ‎✓ Disgruntled expat masking hurt feelings with cultural criticism
    ‎✓ Information drawn from outdated 1920s missionary stereotypes
    ‎✓ Unironic reference to Ralph Townsend
    ‎✓ Taiwan as a stepping stone for hating the mainland
    ‎✓ Someone screwed me in business now I hate China

    The only thing missing from Midler’s resume is “ESL teacher”

    Listen, Chinese people are perfectly aware of Chinese society’s shortcomings. The “Ugly Chinaman” trope — deceit, corner-cutting, greed, face-saving, dog-eat-dog mentality that all stem from excessive materialism — has been described in some form by Chinese commentators since at least the 13th century.

    Chinese people, including me, are often critical of these issues in private, but less so to foreigners. China has always been a harsh, densely populated rat race where being moral puts you at a disadvantage. I’m sorry a lot of foreigners didn’t know this going in, but people aren’t going to become nicer until there is a substantial period of wealth and higher living standards, like in Taiwan or Singapore. We don’t need any more assblasted expats feeling bitter about every single thing in China. People like Midler writing this in 2018 should realize that this is the era when China finally starts transitioning to a nicer place.

    As for politics, I’m not convinced liberal democracy is a superior system, or even a lasting one. Even accounting for potential tyrants, the authoritarian state is still better equipped to rapidly and decisively deal with existential threats to the nation, especially internal ones. Equality other than basic legal protections is not desirable at all. Universal suffrage is the dumbest idea in the history of political thought. Freedom is hardly the most important thing in society, and even then most Chinese people do not feel unfree, because most people in any society don’t intend on being dissidents. The major gripe about freedoms in China is not about any particular political topic, but rather the internet blocking of foreign sites that hold entertainment value (Youtube, Instagram, etc).

    I agree that Chinese nationalism can be arrogant and hypersensitive. Angry nationalists should tone it down and ask whether or not hating some other country/group actually benefits China. Most of the hate directed at our neighbors is pointless, counterproductive, just pride for the sake of pride. However, after living in the west, I firmly believe that nationalism is basically a positive thing for humanity, despite its excesses. Tribal feeling and the friendly competition that results is the greatest engine of true progress ever known. Given a choice between the west’s self-loathing “open society” and China’s current system, I’d pick the nationalist autocracy any day.

  9. @anon

    The “right” has also been a major contributor to demographic change, and has often been its main cheerleader. It wasn’t the left that imported slaves, insisted that we let millions of cheap workers flood the country and the 19th century, and once again opened the door to cheap labor in the 1960s. In both America and Europe, Capital has always used immigrants as a weapon to undermine trade unions and the power domestic laborers have. A rapidly growing economy will always be vulnerable to demographic change as the elite chases cheap labor, even Rome suffered from that.

    Asia has avoided the problem thus far simply by having so many poor people willing to work at low wages. This is beginning to catch up with them. Japan has responded by investing heavily in robotics and consciously deciding to shrink its economy long term, we will see if Korea and China can do the same. My guess is that China, with its shortage of women, pressure for growth and less centralized control, is going to have a harder time keeping the gates closed.

    • Replies: @myself
  10. I shouldn’t be surprised that Derbyshire would quote Midler considering his own paucity of knowledge that primarily stems from marrying a race traitor.

    Midler is the Malcom Gladwell of China hands, writing pithy “just-so” anecdotes that sound plausible to the ignorant but collapse once his theories are subject to the rigorous scrutiny. His tea example being one of them, flat our wrong, but plausible sounding if you are relying on faulty heuristics.

    The reason that China drives some white expats nutty as it were has a deeper psychological reason. The same type of oriental fatigue exists all throughout the far east but it primarily stems from resentment engendered by two factors. Reality not matching up with wishful expectations and the contempt engendered by unwarranted generosity. The Chinese are not isolationist enough and far too charitable with the Westerners among them, giving them too much for so little. Like the spoiling of a child, this creates a sense of entitlement among certain caliber of expats that manifests as seething resentment towards their benefactors. No doubt some whites will take umbrage at this observation but consider if you will the simmering hostility and contempt with which Muslim immigrants in Europe regard the natives, natives whose tax dollars pay for their welfare benefits. It’s a very human failing that stems from a character flaw.

    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Panopticon
  11. @Ron Unz

    Mr. Unz:

    How can we unworthy guests to your website thank you enough?

  12. I know Russians of all political persuasions. Yet, amazingly, not one of them feels persuaded morally that Chechnya or Crimea should not be part of their country(I’m sure some exist, just not in my circle). And yet you seem so surprised that Chinese of various political persuasions have equally little fervor in splitting up their country.

    Whataboutism is boring, so I won’t go there. But it should be obvious that going around encouraging separatism in a country might find that idea rejected, especially separatism to create mutually hostile neighbors.

    One might even suspect ulterior motives there.

  13. Another book on the subject that I’d recommend is The Tyranny of History by W.J.F Jenner.

    Jenner was an Australian diplomat who spent a considerable amount of time in China and came away with a pretty accurate view of things like why, for example, the common areas of Chinese apartment buildings are often so dumpy even if the building is inhabited by wealthy people.

    I spent years living among Chinese people in both Taiwan and the mainland and came away with a generally positive impression of them. On the whole, they’re energetic, dynamic, friendly and hospitable people. The hyper sensitive nationalism of the mainlanders (As everyone knows, Taiwan is a part of the mainland!) for now, remains problematic however.

    If they grow and mature and mellow out like the Taiwanese, they’ll be fine.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
  14. Anonym says:
    @Realist

    What’s wrong with us?

    I think a confluence of factors. I can list if you like, but it has partly been extended by a lot of addictions of the modern world.

    However, it seems to me that it can’t last. White people are prone to fashions, both of clothing and of thought. We tend to overdo things. Religion hasn’t been a constant. Piousness ebbs and flows. We have Extraordinary Delusions and Madness of Crowds. We go way too far the one way, then finally when we think that this is the way things will always be, it suddenly ends. Maybe it takes a little while like the hippie era, or maybe it ends abruptly like disco.

    We have an equilibrium in terms of altruism vs ethnocentrism. We have had every force attempt to push us in the direction of pathological altruism, self-loathing, false virtue signalling and the like. It has taken systems of mass indoctrination to get us to this point. The movement back has already started. Generally the further things are pushed from equilibrium, the greater the momentum and energy they have when they rebound towards equilibrium, and yes, there is some overshoot.

    Comically:

    Not so comically. What’s wrong with us? What’s wrong with the low sea level?

    • Replies: @Bill
  15. @Jason Liu

    As for politics, I’m not convinced liberal democracy is a superior system, or even a lasting one. Even accounting for potential tyrants, the authoritarian state is still better equipped to rapidly and decisively deal with existential threats to the nation, especially internal ones. Equality other than basic legal protections is not desirable at all.

    It sounds, from your writing, that you have been here in America for a long time, but apparently not long enough to know much of the history of this country. We are not supposed to be a liberal democracy – a Constitutional Republic was the government formed by our founders and it specifically specified a SMALL GOVERNMENT. The kind of nationally-suicidal stuff going on would not have been let to happen if Americans had some control of the Feral Government over the last 5 decades.

    Equality as equal protection under the law IS the only equality specified in the Constitution. The American Constitutional Republic form of government was the best ever devised and beats all hell out of any authoritative regime, even under a Star-Trek-type “Good Chairman Mao”.

    Universal suffrage is the dumbest idea in the history of political thought.

    AGREED, and also not part of the founders plan for Federal government, BTW

    … .even then most Chinese people do not feel unfree, because most people in any society don’t intend on being dissidents.

    Sure, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down. Maybe you’ve got cause and effect backwards, Jason. The Chinese don’t want to be dissidents, because authoritarian government will squash them (with a tank). So, the Chinese feel pretty free not to become dissidents, is that the logic?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Jason Liu
  16. @Jason Liu

    China has always been a harsh, densely populated rat race where being moral puts you at a disadvantage. I’m sorry a lot of foreigners didn’t know this going in, but people aren’t going to become nicer until there is a substantial period of wealth and higher living standards, like in Taiwan or Singapore.

    On this part, I agree with you, Mr. Liu. Living in close quarters does not allow for as much freedom. I have stated in an post about picking blackberries (US vs. China), China is lots more crowded than people would think from just population and land area on the map.

    Do you know that China had more people, over 400 million, in the middle of the Qing Dynasty, back before 1900 AD, than we have now? It’s been overpopulated for a long time, and keep in mind that, though the land area on a map looks close to that of the continental US, the western 40% of that is just Tibet and Xinjiang , both just mostly barely-inhabited mountains and high desert. Then the other 60% is mostly mountainous. I’d estimate the population density of China as 15 X what we have in America, not 5 X, as one might think from a glance at the globe.

    America had only 200,000,000 in this great big land of ours 4 decades ago or so. As Peak Stupidity also stated:

    Can we learn a lesson here? Do Americans want to live like that, with no way to really get out away from anyone and see the land in it’s pristine state? See, the Chinese have a long history of living close together – even out in the country, so to speak, they live in villages of a few hundred and farm their small plots around these villages. Here, we all can realistically dream of living on 10 acres or more, and we like to be where we can’t even see any neighbors! The treehuggers don’t want to talk about immigration though, remember; it’s not nice, and they all want to be nice, even it means their children will inherit a crowded hellhole. People might call you names and shit, can’t have that, right?

  17. Clyde says:

    An Amazon review for Poorly Made in China by Paul Midler:

    [MORE]

    Like he was with me on every buy
    July 16, 2010
    Format: Hardcover|Verified Purchase
    I have done business in China since 1986. I know from experience how tricky and dangerous it is, especially for the newcomer. Curiously Mr. Midler refers to suppliers in Shantou (Canton Province) and I too have many suppliers there. Apparently this behavior amongst the Chinese is across the board no matter what product you work with. And they don’t care no matter what threats or promises you make. I actually had one supplier who told me he would no longer sell to me because “you complain too much”! No loss to me, easily replaced you can be sure. Communists or not, the almighty greenback is king in China but as Mr. Midler makes very clear, it is not going to get you what you think you contracted for. Something close, maybe, but not right on target.

    The Chinese screwed up so many of my shipments that I got the distinct impression that the translaters were interpreting my directions, not translating them. So I spent years learning to speak Mandarin. I am totally fluent now, have often been mistaken for being Chinese on the telephone by those who had not yet met me. No matter, I told them straight out what I wanted in their own language and STILL they basically did it wrong to shave off a few bucks to their advantage. I could never understand that way of thinking, in America we keep the customers happy to perpetuate our business with them, we do not consistently antagonize them. This book will open your eyes if you want to do business in China and if you are already there you cannot help but agree with everything he says. Pay close attention, he knows what he is talking about.

    They will go behind your back and try to deal directly with your customer, they will yes you to death and then do whatever they please without any regard for you or your customer. I can offer dozens of examples but the one that most illustrates this is the supplier who sent the advance samples for approval, they were perfect. He then went and made the million piece order to his own liking. It was a Halloween item to be made in Orange and Black, the 1000 piece advance samples were right on the money. When the order came in, it was made in Red and Blue. They told us the factory boss thought Orange and Black was a terrible color combination so he made what he thought was pretty. Hence we had a million red and blue product with ghosts and goblins and all printed on them, in red and blue and the words “Happy Halloween”. THAT is when we transferred half our entire production of all products to India. We still do some business in China but had I read this book twenty years ago I never would have gotten involved in China at all!
    I highly recommend this book, it is all true and frightening so use it well and be aware. Be very aware.

    • Replies: @The Wobbly Guy
  18. I learned a lot from this column (sounds like a school book report, haha). I know about modern China, have read lots about the Mao era and some about the Japan/WWII/Civil War era too. However, the history reviewed here may have enlightened me on the Chinese mindset. I’d always though, and still question, whether the extreme discouragement of religion, or I should say, “other religions” by Communism DID still change the “psyche” somewhat.

    The Chinese Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism were never, I guess, taken as seriously as Christianity in the West and Islam in the, umm, hellholes. However, it was a part of their culture. Right now, nothing of that is taken seriously, as even the money burned during the tomb-sweeping day is fake. I asked a Chinawoman, “if you believe burning that cash is gonna help your late Mom, why don’t you all burn the real stuff – I’d love to burn me some Chairman Mao.”

    No, there is no belief left, in all of the people I’ve met. Don’t you think 30-odd years of hard-core Communism changed a bit of this, Mr. Derbyshire? I’m just asking – as you are the expert – not being snarky at all, if you can believe that(!)

  19. @Achmed E. Newman

    AGREED, and also not part of the founders plan for Federal government, BTW

    But its hard to argue that they didn’t suspect it’ll get to this point. They even wrote it about themselves that any line for voting could be seen as arbitrary. I think it was Adams that wrote something like: “If it is limited to white men of great property, why not white men of small property? If limited to white men of property, why not all white men? Why not all men, instead of white men? And so on…”

    The incentives in a democracy ultimately don’t line up not to move toward universal suffrage, because the opposition party always needs to bring in more voters to buttress their ranks. Of course, the founders were opposed to parties and cliques too, but the necessity of it was such that they were effectively creating their own even as they wrote against it.

    Perhaps its different in an European multiparty democracy with no clear opposition, only coalitions. Nonetheless, universal suffrage seems to be the rule there too, so perhaps the only difference is that opposition party is replaced by opposition coalition.

    • Agree: Abe
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  20. Since China is the subject here, and because they are in the middle of the Chinese New Year over there and here, let’s not forget about the moon cakes*, please, people!

    They’ve got 5,000 years of history, I! GET! THAT! [/Carlson], and our Southern American moon PIES have only been around for a century (congrats!). Still, the Chinese are not known to be be big-time bakers, and those things have a piece of egg inside. What the hell, Chinaman? I, myself am partial to Chocolate moon pies, especially when accompanied by a Chocolate or Strawberry Yoohoo.

    Moon-Pies vs. Moon-Cakes

    * They’re not just for mooncake festival breakfast anymore.

    • Replies: @another fred
    , @TT
  21. gT says:
    @Jason Liu

    Agreed with everything you are saying, more or less, except for the political scenario. I’ve got a problem with some animals being more equal than others in the Animal Farm sense, too much of the Western equality before the law individualistic anti-authoritarian nature in me, so it has to be different strokes for different folks on the political issue.

    But this business of Chinese “people aren’t going to become nicer until there is a substantial period of wealth and higher living standards”. Is there ever going to be a substantial period of wealth and higher living standards in China?

    I think not. China’s current wealth and higher living standards are due to globalization. Globalization is disappearing because of the problems the global economies are going through, economic protectionism has already kicked in and its only going to get worse. Western countries are dependent on debt for their GDP, the people are maxed out on debt, no more economic growth possible via that route. So the substantial period part of the substantial period of wealth and higher living standards is not possible.

    China’s people are going to remain the same as they are now and have always been.

    I don’t even think that there is enough resources on this planet for a substantial period of wealth and higher living standards for the 1.4 billion people in China to become nice.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    , @Daniel Chieh
  22. @Johnny Smoggins

    God I hope not. The Taiwanese are a bunch of boring deracinate cucks who are happy to follow the West into oblivion if it means some additional status points for themselves. The Mainlanders need double down on the nationalism. Not the shitty “big state” nationalism of the Communist Party though (analogous to Putin’s version of Russian Nationalism or even the dominant strain of American nationalism), rather the natural tribal racial nationalism of the Han people. Volkish race nationalism good; Imperialist boilerplate masquerading as nationalism, bad.

    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
    , @ve1
  23. @Achmed E. Newman

    Belief doesn’t matter. Ritual is the foundation of behavior and social order. Confucius pointed this out nearly 3000 years ago. All the sacrifices are pointless and all the proper observances are irrelevant, but they still matter because in performing them you are conducting yourself properly and it impacts on behavior elsewhere. It’s how Judaism and Islam work, all the seemingly pointless rituals and taboos that set themselves apart from others are not useless, they are in fact precisely designed to enforce certain behaviors that lead to the propagation of mores Jews and Muslims.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  24. @gT

    Nice guys finish last. Chinese shouldn’t become “nicer”, they need to get meaner. Atavism is the word of the day and they need to embrace “meanness” to survive in an ever darker world. I’ve seen the behavior of the so-called “nice” Chinese; deracinated compradors with fertility rates below 1 whose primary desire is overpriced real estate and cargo culting the West and miscegenating themselves into oblivion. In other words, an evolutionary dead end. Ill take Henan peasant over Shanghai cosmopolitan any day of the week and twice on Sundays. One of the good things about the Communist Party is that they have universalized Chinese nationalism to no longer be the exclusive realm of educated elites. Next step is to foster a siege mentality of us against the world and project that “meanness” against outsiders. Race War Now.

  25. @gT

    Is there ever going to be a substantial period of wealth and higher living standards in China?

    Yes. The advancement of technology provides a lot of opportunities and help deal with scarcity – I think its easy to underestimate the sheer amount of waste that goes on normally. For example, roughly one third of the food produced in the world for human consumption every year — approximately 1.3 billion tonnes — gets lost or wasted. That’s just food, but its an essential measure of well-being.

    There are two ways that can be increased: one is to increase the amount of food being generated and another is to improve the treatment of food so that its not actually wasted. China is deploying AI* to do both:

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/16/17019446/farming-ai-pig-tracking-china-alibaba

    What’s particularly impressive is that AI can ultimately be used to increase the effectiveness of services that would previously have been seen to be only human-capable, such as doctors. They can’t replace doctors yet, but one of the major strengths of machine learning systems is that they can notice anomalies, far faster and far more accurately than humans can. Rather than spend twenty minutes looking over an x-ray and worrying if he may have missed something, an AI can rapidly converge on anything that looks unusual and mark it off to the doctor in a minute’s time:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/11/chinese-baidu-unveils-ai-health-chatbot-for-patients-and-doctors.html

    Even globalization itself is the result of technology: from more efficient logistics overall permitting foreign shipments to be affordable. And the cost of software is effectively zilch once created – just the price of electricity, and some human upkeep thanks to the API ecosystem/improvement. Replication is practically free, unlike other resources in the world. The question, really, is if energy is going to be limited.

    And that’s dubious, in my opinion. Peak oil has been suggested for decades but we’re not seeing it. And even if peak oil ever becomes a thing, China leads in renewables(and that’s not even considering nuclear investment).

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/18/china-now-leads-in-renewables/

    * I tend to dislike the word AI a lot. Its subject to a lot of hype and in my opinion, machine learning systems that provide improved decision-making feedback are not truly artificial intelligence. But it seems to be the best word for it now.

    • Replies: @gT
  26. @Duke of Qin

    You know you have problems, right?

  27. I was screwed professionally by a Chinese guy. Yet, I have worked with other Chinese who are perfectly admirable. I am rational enough not to hate the whole society over the actions of one corrupt POS individual. Having said that, I will say that the biggest problem the Chinese face as a whole is their culture of corruption. Corruption is seriously their number one problem. All of their other problems are insignificant in comparison and would be easily overcome absent corruption.

    Duke ofQin: Good luck with that.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  28. Jason Liu says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I know how America was founded, but fact is today it practices and preaches liberal democracy with universal suffrage, and its egalitarian culture goes far beyond what’s stated in the constitution. It also seems to expect that every other country on Earth should do the same, or be labelled evil.

    Government tends to grow over time until everything burns down in a revolution or something similar. I don’t foresee a return to small government republicanism anytime soon.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  29. Jason Liu says:
    @Duke of Qin

    C’mon man, that’s cartoonish. We don’t live in the Warring States era.

    Better to slowly shift the global culture away from western liberal norms into something more suited to nationalism, which would better safeguard Chinese (and other) identities over the long run.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    , @Alden
  30. myself says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Peter Akuleyev says:
    February 19, 2018 at 11:00 am GMT • 200 Words

    My guess is that China, with its shortage of women, pressure for growth and less centralized control, is going to have a harder time keeping the gates closed.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________

    Of the 3 nations you mentioned (China, Korea, Japan), China is actually by far the most ruthless in enforcing central control. I honestly would not at all be surprised if they deploy the army to remove even defiant provincial governors, if it came to that.

    For example, the utter and complete INSANITY occurring now in America, the self-proclaimed Sanctuary Cities for illegals, simply would not be conceivable in China.

    Sanctuary cities are cities essentially proclaiming themselves exempt and above federal law. Turn it around, and the Mainstream Media wouldn’t like it. What if some cities made chattel slavery LEGAL in their jurisdiction? The media would go nuts. But since the defiant cities favor illegals, it’s all good, huh?

  31. njguy73 says:

    A question for John Derbyshire, or anyone who would know:

    The U.S. apologized for slavery. Britain apologized to Kenya, Belgium apologized to the Congo. Germany took responsibility for the Holocaust, Japan apologized for Nanking.

    Has China ever done anything warranting an apology? And if so, did one come forth?

    If not, is the world ready for a superpower with no sense of responsibility?

  32. @Jason Liu

    The warring states period was by comparison quite pacific and orderly. All of the states were the ducal heirs of the kingdom of Zhou and shared an overarching monoculture. Like the city states of ancient Greece or the German principalities of medieval Europe, they were politically fragmented but shared the same values and customs.

    The modern world is on the other hand a wild dangerous place, filled with wildly different peoples and sundry barbarians with grossly different values. I would be more positive if I thought the Chinese race were stronger, but we aren’t. Unlike the undomesticated negro with his raw strength who overawes all peoples with his presence, the cunning Jew who is able to subvert others to his cause, the wild eyed Mohammedan with his unrelenting faith, or the Hindu who is a combination of the (worst) traits of Jew and Mussalman, or even the nihilistic hypocritical European driven by the desire to see his own race destroyed and everyone else along with it, the Chinese are socially a weak people. We are meek, passive, lacking in assabiyah, and just all around too domesticated to survive in a war of all against all that modern “liberal” societies seek to create. Compared to the warring states of old where defeat meant you paid your taxes to one Duke as opposed to another, defeat now means your racial annihilation and debasement. Our one redeeming feature is our state, a government ruled at the top by flinty eyed bastards thoroughly opposed to a liberal world order. That they can and do use the state to crushing effect to protect our race against the outside is a “feature” not bug that Western liberals seek to undermine at every opportunity.

    This is where I heartily disagree, the best way to safeguard the Chinese now, as then, is heavily armed isolationism. Triple the defense budget, more nukes, ships, more jets and zero emigration or immigration. Basically buy our shit, stay out, and leave us the hell alone, a historically relevant policy worth emulating.

  33. myself says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Maybe we shouldn’t be all too quick to say that the Chinese have no beliefs. Say instead that they are searching for their footing in the world, having closed themselves off for centuries. So, indeed, if you are looking for set doctrines and ideas, well, it’s way too early for that.

    They opened up in, at the earliest, 1978. In fact, the Reform and Opening did not become national policy until 1982.

    But back to the “no beliefs”. During the early days of the Islamic expansion, in the 7th Century AD, Arab traders who had traversed the Silk Road, that there were these teeming masses in the East with no conception of God, and no faith to oppose to the Light and Truth of Islam. Surely, here was a massive opportunity for conversion. When Islam reaches that land, the inhabitants would be theologically and philosophically defenseless – or so thought the Imams of that age.

    In the 1800s, it was Christianity’s turn to try their hand at the easy pickings that would be the Chinese. Where others failed, the Truth of Christianity would have universal appeal. Or so thought the missionaries of that later age.

    What they forgot was that the Chinese identity predated both their religions, by thousands of years.
    Communism did not affect the essential Russian character, nor that of the Chinese – it simply wasn’t around long enough.

  34. @Jason Liu

    I don’t know if it was that bad – which isn’t to defend it – Derbyshire in the post himself takes steps to qualify its shortcomings at the outset.

    Here’s how I read it: China isn’t perfect – indeed, China has real problems and maybe more salient – real shortcomings that will be difficult to overcome and of which we should practice some skepticism that they even will be overcome.

    That’s purely my POV, I could have been reading too much into it, however, the POV comes from here: I do in fact have a sense of China as a real place, and Chinese as real people, and like all real places and real people there are certain intractable problems in China that are profoundly self-limiting to Chinese collective advancement.

    Before getting to why that’s important bear this in mind: the exact same thing can be said of the US. On another thread nearby a commenter notes the contrast between Mormon culture and southern culture – these reflect self-limiting features in American culture and politics that seem intractable and resistant to efforts to overcome. Add to that: our identity politics, short-term symbolism over long-term substance. America: she got problems.

    But so often we get the “rising China” scare article and all manner of mischief is promoted on the basis that we are supposed to fear an inexorably rising China. Articles like this can be a welcome antidote to that. Americans commit all manner of ideological, political, cultural and geo-political mistakes with their superhumanizing of Chinese (i.e.: Kissinger, “the Chinese are smarter than us” … cue a Unz Review Peanut Gallery HBD fan to sneer with some laconic wit via some IQ remark (ehem, cough, cough – PISA in China is only in Shanghai, think … think about that, study up on the background, then think ) )

    Everyone does China better to neither denigrate Chinese, nor superhumanize them.

    • Replies: @Snowman
  35. nickels says:

    Post, residual, Christian folk write about why China does not put forth good Christian values.

    Well, where do we start?

    Paganism isn’t that fun when you wake up in the morning.

  36. @Achmed E. Newman

    I, myself am partial to Chocolate moon pies, especially when accompanied by a Chocolate or Strawberry Yoohoo.

    In these parts (Alabama) the proper accompaniment for a Moon Pie was an RC Cola in the old days (’50s and ’60s).

    With Mardi Gras just over most of us have had our needs for Moon Pies filled for a year.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  37. @Jason Liu

    I don’t foresee a return to small government republicanism anytime soon.

    No doubt, Jason. I replied because I read lots of people who make comparisons to present day America without ever mentioning, or maybe knowing, what a good country is like. Some of us know the right way. I sure as hell don’t care to read or hear any Chinese people comparing their country to modern-day America when they know zero history (usually not much of China’s either).

    That’s not at all directed at you, Jason, just sayin’…

  38. gT says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I’ve heard that necessity is the mother of every invention but there is no way I can be that optimistic about technology. Its going to have to be different strokes for different folks on this matter also :-)

  39. gT says:
    @Duke of Qin

    How can you have isolationism and have other people buy your ‘stuff’? That is not isolationism, that is still globalization.

  40. @Duke of Qin

    You have some of the best comments and perspectives on China I’ve ever seen. Please consider having a blog.

  41. Reading John Derbyshire’s past articles against Chinese nationalism, I can only conclude that he wants the Chinese to be cucked. He doesn’t say it out loud but it is quite implicit in his writings. He wants to preserve the white race (understandable) but is indignant that China wants to remain Chinese. Nationalism for me but not for you!

    • Replies: @John Derbyshire
  42. The most wince-inducing aspect of this national trait is the frequent announcements out of Peking

    No more wince-inducing than Derb’s defense of the awful neonym Czechia.

    “Peking” fits our tongue much better than “Beijing”, two of which consonants we can’t pronounce, so Derb is right to use it. So what’s the deal with “Czechia”, which doesn’t fit, and the Czechs won’t even use themselves?

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
  43. @Duke of Qin

    Good. I think you have the right attitude and I wish you and your nation much success.

    A couple pieces of advice from the decaying West;

    If China does decide to take up democracy (and really you shouldn’t, a benign nationalist dictatorship is best) for the love of God, don’t let women vote. And DO NOT let Jews in. A couple of diplomats from Israel and nothing more.

    • Replies: @Alden
  44. Hker says:
    @Duke of Qin

    The war to end all war will come but we need to bid our time. There is a need to unite all East Asians ( Koreans, jap and Chinese diaspora ) and bring them into China’s orbit as was the case during the Tang and Song Dynasty, this can only be achieved through economic, technological or cultural superiority and integration where these countries will submit to China and have no objections to been vassal states. South east Asia needs to be taken for their resources ( as jap were doing WWII> and the low IQ breeds subjugated. This process might take another 50-100 years but it needs to happen before the Asia is ready to take on the West for the final showdown. It will begin in Australia where we will clean up all the white trash there. But I think the west would have imploded by then and they will all be speaking Chinese anyway…

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
    , @WhiteWolf
  45. @myself

    It could tell of a soulless, small-hearted people only focused on the material world, too.

  46. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Rodney Gilbert wrote with a frankness about race that would make his book utterly unpublishable nowadays

    It seems rather tame for the time period, though.

    and oddities like the botanist Robert Fortune.

    Quite a few of the old travelogues detailing foreign cultures came from botanists.

  47. @Clyde

    And because of that, Singaporeans are usually derided by other chinese for being too naive – we do aim for long term advantages and customer relationships as inculcated by our western upbringing, although we also lapse all too frequently into our genetic heritage.

    As the common saying goes, “台湾人无耻,香港人无情,大陆人无耻又无情,新加坡人无知.”

    Translated – Taiwanese are shameless, Hong Kongers are merciless, Mainlanders are shameless and merciless, and Singaporeans are ignorant/naive/stupid.

    • Replies: @J L
    , @ThatDamnGood
  48. denk says:

    The most wince-inducing aspect of this national trait is the frequent announcements out of Peking that some action by some foreign government—holding a meeting with the Dalai Lama, for example— has “hurt the feelings of the Chinese people.” Poor things! [Why so sensitive? A complete history of China’s ‘hurt feelings’, by David Bandurski, Hong Kong Free Press, January 29, 2016]

    [sic]

    Been dying to tell CCP,

    Bitching wins no wars.

    Dont get hurt, get even !

    Two can play at this game.

    High time China joins the ‘civilised ‘ world and take up this ‘human rights’ mantra, its a growth industry , dont let the whiteys have the field all to themselves.

    The whiteys had a head start on the market but for reasons best known to themselves, their pet indulgence is exclusively on the cuddly Tibetans head bashers, Uighurs cut throats, NED Chinese poster boys.

    There’R stuffs that they wont touch with a ten feet pole….ever seen the Chagosians, Okinawans, Jeju islanders, Iraq DU victims, Apak drone survivers, Kashmiris, Nagas, Manipuris, Dalits, West Papuans, Achenese ….invited to a sumtuous lunch in the WH /Downing Street ?

    There’s a vast untapped niche market out there waiting to be exploited.

    Chagosians, Nagas…. are the untouchable who have no voice, China should give them their voice., let them tell their stories to the world, with half the world’s journos in attendance, live broadcast to the world, CCP can afford it ;-)

    Havent the whiteys been telling China to be a responsible member of the international community and do something for human rights, what is CCP waiting for ?

    hehehhehe

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @myself
    , @Alden
  49. @Duke of Qin

    The modern world is on the other hand a wild dangerous place, filled with wildly different peoples and sundry barbarians with grossly different values. I would be more positive if I thought the Chinese race were stronger, but we aren’t….This is where I heartily disagree, the best way to safeguard the Chinese now, as then, is heavily armed isolationism. Triple the defense budget, more nukes, ships, more jets and zero emigration or immigration. Basically buy our shit, stay out, and leave us the hell alone, a historically relevant policy worth emulating.

    Oh and that worked out SO well last time.

    If we cannot survive in competition, then we do not deserve to survive.

    • Replies: @Alden
  50. @Hker

    Why bother? I don’t particularly care what the Koreans and Japanese do. As long as they aren’t actively hostile and part of some subversive liberal coalition then they might as well be on Mars for all I care. Also subjugating others, especially stupid others, is a really bad idea. It is inevitably going to result in foreigners entering China in unprecedented numbers. This has happened before in China’s past as it is happening to the West today. My Prime Directive is the survival of the Chinese race first and foremost. Beating up SE Asian Muslim isn’t related to this goal, leave the quixotic crusading to the Americans.

    As for the final racial reckoning I honestly don’t see it happening. The West isn’t going to go down with a bang, rather it will die with a whimper. If they do summon the will to survive, then they won’t be actually be a subversive threat. Just look at Poland, Hungary, Austria, and the Czech Republic. Really nothing good has ever happened with China’s interactions with outsiders. Isolationism is really the best policy.

  51. J L says:
    @The Wobbly Guy

    ” we do aim for long term advantages and customer relationships as inculcated by our western upbringing, although we also lapse all too frequently into our genetic heritage.”

    Yes, we know. You have 300 year of glory of enslaving, pillaging, and mass murdering. Your time is up. Your advantage is gone, and you are trying to hold others at your gun (canon)point with borrowed money. It is part of your barbaric western heritage, and your genetic heritage only shows others how clueless you are.

    • Replies: @The Wobbly Guy
    , @Alden
  52. @denk

    Its a sign of intelligence that the CCP does not engage in that stupidity because it doesn’t end well. There are a million better ways to waste blood and treasure that don’t involve posturing as a saint to further separatism and internal disputes.

    There’s a relevant saying for this:

    Play stupid games, earn stupid prizes.

  53. Weaver1 says:
    @njguy73

    The US obsesses over slavery as a political tool against white Americans. If you notice, the US imports many immigrants and guest workers. We’ve embraced a strategy of “invade-the-world; invite-the-world”, which results in the importation of angry refugees. We export our investment capital, expand our debt, etc. The US doesn’t serve the interests of US citizens.

    A better example might be how the US bends over backwards to help blacks, then blames whites when blacks fail to excel. Meanwhile, Asians outperform most everyone… Asian supremacist conspiracy perhaps? (That’s a joke.) By blaming whites, blacks are encouraged to be angry at whites, which divides society, creates disharmony.

    Some argue this is a “divide and conquer” strategy by America’s elite.

    Similarly, low IQ whites defend the exceedingly wealthy, thinking they’re mutually at risk from the angry blacks (among others on the “Left”). In truth, workers in general share many common political interests. So, the “divide-and-conquer” strategy appears to work very well on the population in general, or has in the past anyway.

    -

    In short, a superpower that “apologises” is not necessarily a good thing. It could be good. Every society sins of course.

    I certainly acknowledge slavery was wrong, but specific sins are focused upon and emphasised for political reasons. Man is fallen. Societies don’t usually act on morality but on power. There are some mostly good people, but most things occur because of power, greed, etc. And it’s much easier for one to play at being “good” when weak (and lacking temptation). Also, it’s often the ambitious who advance, not the good. I’m not suggesting a person should then become “evil”; I’m just highlighting how man is fallen.

    China has many sins. Tibet is a great example. China conquered Tibet, largely destroyed or reduced most of an ethnicity. I don’t wish it to “apologise”, but it should strive to protect Tibetan heritage, which it might well be doing. And of course, I’m no expert on the matter; so who am I to judge China?

    • Replies: @denk
  54. Weaver1 says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Hi, I wanted to post this quote by Machiavelli:

    “Either we have to deal with a
    republic eager like Rome to extend its power, or with one content merely to maintain
    itself; in the former case it
    is necessary to do in all things as Rome did; in the latter,
    for the reasons and in the manner to be shown in the following Chapter, we may
    imitate Venice and Sparta.”

    However, in the next chapter he write: “But returning to the point first raised, I believe it
    necessary for us to follow the
    method of the Romans and not that of the other republics, for I know of no middle
    way. ”

    Citation: Chapters 5 & 6 from Discourses.

    I generally think as you do, that preserving one’s people is best. But mere preservation can lead to decay.

    Also, the book “Antifragility” caught my eye recently, basically arguing that a system should be designed so as to benefit from some difficulty, rather than to be weakened by it – similar to how muscles grow stronger from use.

    I’m not arguing against you, rather I’m just posting some comments you’ll find interesting. A nation-state built to endure, especially one that won’t commit suicide, is my dream.

    I imagine “isolation” could of course be taken overfar. Nothing in excess. But more-isolation certainly seems better to me. So much of American globalism is wasteful, and interaction with foreigners tends to bring unrealised costs.

    GK Chesterton recommended travel among polities to encourage fellowship and understanding. He also wished to preserve. His “Patriotic Idea” is focused on preserving Europe, especially the British Isles, but applies generally as a sort of ideology of piety and preservation. He favoured “Little England”.

    • Replies: @Dave Bowman
  55. @Abelard Lindsey

    Corruption is seriously their number one problem. All of their other problems are insignificant in comparison and would be easily overcome absent corruption.

    I concur completely. I think that the Communist party is aware of this as well. Corruption is an existential issue, one that ultimately far surpasses all the many other issues that the country has to deal with.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  56. J L says:

    As a Chinese, I do not think there is a need to try to correct other people’s view of China. No matter how many years others study China, or live in China, they will not stop seeing China in their own culture perceptive, especially if the culture is white, western, or self-pronounced exceptionalists.

    As a Chinese, I use 1000s year old expressions to describe a situation, or understand a behavior, or explain a action in my everyday life.

    As a Chinese, I know my country’s history regardless what any outsider trying to say about us. There are enough history books and virtues pass down to us, and we know who we are, good and bad.

    It is normal to catch negative attention when you break to front of pack. It makes all the victories much more precious.

  57. @J L

    Lol, this reply didn’t even make sense. Most Singaporean chinese were descended from South China provincials seeking a way out from the chaos that was endemic throughout the 19th and 20th century. Don’t really get where the 300 years of enslaving, killing blah blah blah came from.

    Unless it’s referring to the Taiping Rebellion, where we chinese killed far more of ourselves. In fact, looking at Chinese history, the most frequent killers of chinese were other chinese.

    Don’t really get the borrowed money part either. On the whole, Sg is a creditor nation.

    • Replies: @Alden
  58. neutral says:
    @Duke of Qin

    The West isn’t going to go down with a bang, rather it will die with a whimper.

    That is not true, the West died in the battles of Stalingrad and Berlin, so hardly a whimper. What exists now is not Western, call it what you want, but it has nothing to do with the past Western civilization.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
  59. Weaver1 says:
    @neutral

    By your logic, China could arguably be “not-Chinese” today. Instead it’s “Marxist” or was Marxist. I suppose the elite in China are still Chinese though, but Jewish rule doesn’t entirely explain the decline of the West.

    The West has been greatly harmed by one-way mass media and by our centralisation and transience. A tiny elite was empowered to remake society, and it did. Individuals were at the mercy of elites, even as those same individuals proclaimed how free and independent they were.

    Asia is just rising at a different time and environment. WWII did not necessarily change the trajectory. We could have still committed suicide.

    It’s clear today that modernism and technology can be harmful. Too many Europeans came to worship the impious and individualist “Faustian spirit”. As such, they gladly abandoned the past to commit societal suicide, all in the name of “progress” and moving “forward” towards madness. Progress though falls to relativity outside some religion or tradition to define it.

    • Replies: @neutral
  60. @Daniel Chieh

    I concur completely. I think that the Communist party is aware of this as well. Corruption is an existential issue, one that ultimately far surpasses all the many other issues that the country has to deal with.

    Corruption is going to keep happening, Mr. Chieh, so long as the people have no morals. It’s quite delusional thinking Communism is going to help. Communism for 30 hard-core years and now total 60 years running is what beat to hell whatever morals were existing in the Chinese people in the first place.

    Good luck with that corruption thing. See it in America too, do you? That’s because we have imported a new people.

    BTW, I mean corruption at every level of society – at the top end, the corruption you will always have with you.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  61. Weaver1 says:
    @J L

    Europe has 1000s year old expressions as well. For example, “Nothing in excess!”

    We just came to worship the Industrial Revolution, Enlightenment, simplistic ideologies, and “progress” rather than our own heritage.

    And like the Chinese, we’ve destroyed much of our history and heritage. Christianity and the change of language both reduced our historical memory. But we still have the Greeks and Romans.

    Confucius is wrong to entirely discourage foreign ideas. One can still learn from outsiders. It’s just a disgrace that the Chinese currently place Marx, who was the lowest of the impious progress worshippers, before their own heritage. The Chinese still identify as “Communist”; as such, they dishonour their ancestors.

    • Replies: @myself
  62. @J L

    1,000 year-old expressions can be just as wrong as something an unz commenter Tiny Duck wrote this morning. There’s a matter of right and wrong, and that’s the problem with Confucianism – it’s all about getting along, knowing your place in life, etc. The Western way is, or was, when you are right, you’re right – speak up, no matter if not 1 in 100 people agree with you.

    As a Chinese, I know my country’s history regardless what any outsider trying to say about us. There are enough history books and virtues pass down to us, and we know who we are, good and bad.

    You might, J.L., but I have met so many Chinese people that know nothing of their own history. Chairman Mao was responsible for a lot of that.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @J L
  63. @Daniel Chieh

    (Sorry for all the very late replies, Daniel and Jason – I ran out of time yesterday.)

    The American founders in NO WAY figured that women were ever going to be voting in elections. This nefarious idea came in to being a century ago. I have not read very much about it, because it digusts me, but I am starting to wonder who was behind this “suffrage” crap.

    You keep mentioning “democracy”, Daniel, but that was not the type of government this country was founded as.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @HogHappenin
  64. @another fred

    How ’bout a Cheer Wine instead, Fred?

    No, I can’t wait for next Mardi Gras myself – Circle K is beckoning.

  65. @Duke of Qin

    People can run through all the rituals they want, but that doesn’t make them better people. Go to a strip club with a Moslem guy and see how well those rituals work, Duke.

    The lack of morals in the current Chinese culture (in general, that is) is not going to change due to following of the proper Tomb-sweeping rituals, the eating of Moon Pies Cakes, and riding on Dragon Boats. My example of burning the fake money is appropriate here. They can go through the rituals, but nobody has any belief that it means anything.

    If anything, I think the rituals in China will just get more commericalized, as Christmas is. The really ironic thing is this: After the dark years of Communism abating in China, while the insidious version of Communism is increasing in America, you will very well may see more of Santa Clause and Christmas trees on the streets in Shanghai than in freakin New York City. Yet, they don’t really believe a word of it in Shanghai – maybe same in New York City(?)

  66. Weaver1 says:
    @Realist

    No. We lost our piety, traditions, and the wisdom of our ancestors. We lost pride in our history and culture.

    We instead just assumed we could “progress” forward with magical science and individualism, that our natural genetic superiority would inexplicably propel us without the need of additional aids.

    There’s no group of people on Earth more easily manipulated than an uprooted English nuclear-family individualist who knows no history and has no traditional safeguards and community ties. And our extreme “capitalism” seems to naturally lead a society to socialism, though we pretend it’s the great alternative.

    While technology is important, we still see “right wing” Europeans praising our “Faustian spirit”; they seem to worship “progress” as a sort of religion and whites as that agent of “progress”. They’ve embraced madness.

    -

    We also grew soft from success and other reasons. Perhaps it’s true that were Jews not so powerful, European Christians would have righted things eventually. But our open, individualistic system enabled their great power.

    The US seems to have been behind much of the leftward shift among Europeans, post-WWII. Looking at the “conservative movement” in the US:

    The Greeks knew a large middle class to be beneficial, but “conservatives” viewed such as “socialist”.

    The Greeks knew the importance of culture, wouldn’t have allowed Hollywood to destroy society. But “conservatives” valued the free market. The Greeks wouldn’t have allowed Marxists to take over the universities either.

    And the Greeks knew overly large societies could be dangerous. And we have other legitimate conservative voices warning us of the unstable changes society had made.

    It’s the Godforesaken “conservative movement” (not to be confused with actual conservatives) that deserves some of the blame. It wasn’t only FOX and Conservative Inc but also the worship of ideology among many independent conservative Americans who should have known better. Just a brief reading of Aristotle and Belloc or even Machiavelli and Livy would have snapped them out of some of their foolishness.

    If we had pushed for a larger middle class back in the 60s (and continued to focus on preserving the middle class), maybe the 1965 immigration act and other policies wouldn’t have passed. Then other improvements could have been made to the system. But it was seen as essentially “socialist” to resist socialism.

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Bill
  67. @myself

    Thanks for the cogent reply, “yourself”. Your point seems to be that the Chinese character of “no beliefs” was resistant to Islamic attempts at conversion and later Christian ones. I think athism can be pretty resistant to any attempts at conversion, especially if, like the Chinese, the society is, or fancies itself, a better, more proseperous one than the one sending the evangelicals.

    Plenty of other countries have been converted forcibly (Islam is big on that, as we all know). That requires just more firepower, and can work in the long run, as once 2 or 3 generations have grown up in it, they know nothing else. Is there some essential character that will shine through even after one grows up in a Moslem world? I don’t know.

    I wrote this about Russia and this about China on the long-term effects of Communism, but it’s just pure speculation, rather than the erudite view of historical readings of Mr. Derbyshire.

  68. @Achmed E. Newman

    Its not Communism that’s solving the problem. Its the panopticon. And its working.

    As for morals, as someone else has mentioned, it has a lot to do with prosperity.

    But in and of itself:

    Corruption is just a cost to the system, with varying impact on the lives of people. Lobbying in the US, for example, is legal but could be seen as corruption in much of the world(pay a congressman’s friend to convince him of the merits of the corn industry…its hard to see how in many ways, it isn’t a bribe). High level corruption, even when it exists, is felt less and causes less discord than low-level corruption: GE, for example, actually once legally legislated a tax-free year for themselves which was sent through as a rider to a bill. This is far more money than, for example, a policeman asking a citizen for a bribe but the latter is felt more acutely and causes more dissatisfaction.

    The US was not “free for corruption” before the new people either. Much of what has changed is perception of what is corruption; President Lincoln, for example, wrote a number of recommendation letters for job candidates where he basically asked for jobs for his candidates based on what we will see as nepotism(“Mr. So & So’s father is a distinguished and excellent friend of mine, could you please find it possible to hire his son?”) Of course, President Grant’s “drinking companions” brought about a level of corruption that was seen as ridiculous even by the era. So nepotism was seen as acceptable corruption; intemperate friends not so much.

    My point isn’t to bash Americans or defend the Chinese; I try to be objective while realizing the limitations of perspective. What I try to do is to find what’s reality and call to note that past, present and future are often shifting media in both what was possible, the moral environment of the time, and yes, the type of people involved. Consider this – in a future world, it is possible that in a theoretical open-borders country, preferentially hiring countrymen instead of foreigners would be seen as corruption(as a form of extended nepotism). Would this “corruption” be wrong? Is “nepotism” wrong if Lincoln tried to privilege children of killed Union officers? A lot of it is very much definition and era.

  69. neutral says:
    @Weaver1

    but Jewish rule doesn’t entirely explain the decline of the West

    It explains the parts that matter the most. WW2 was a battle between who should rule, which sadly the jews won. The rest that came after was simply the jews imposing their will on anything that still dares challenge their authority.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
  70. @Daniel Chieh

    Another excellent example of this is Senator Richard Shelby working tirelessly to protect Alabama’s role in NASA operations in supporting the ULA company. In this, one could argue that he is honorably protecting the jobs of his voters even if he had to import Russian engines to do so. In doing so, he might be harming Telsa’s ability to build a working competing model that completely uses American labor and parts. Whether his actions are a form of corruption to protect local jobs at the expense of national performance or not heavily depends on one’s perspective and terminal values.

  71. jim jones says:

    I predict that China will follow the Japanese model, they will only grow as long as they can steal Western technology

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Che Guava
  72. @Achmed E. Newman

    The central point of Confucianism isn’t that. Its “societal grammar” through which harmony could emerge. In and of itself, it is eminently sensible: language is much reduced if grammar cannot be used and the same applies to people. If we did not speak the same language, for example, we couldn’t communicate. If we did not use grammar, our communication would be impeded.

    Confucianism merely takes that and applies to expectations on individuals as well – note that the West itself was not free of this historically; thus expectations that women would eventually be married, and that spinsters were somewhat odd. Men were often expected to take on their father’s professions, and a variety of other mores which were based in a society where capital was mostly based out of land, limited centralization and a generally sedentary existence. Insofar as Confucianism’s greatest weakness is that it also is not highly tailored for the migratory lives of moderns.

    It should not, then, be considered as a great surprise that atomization and individuality vastly accelerated in urbanized environments which removed the individual from his family and mores; it is not coincidental that the libertine and individualized 60s developed from the generation immediately after the great urbanization of the 40s. This evolved to what it is now where self-identity has actualized such that one can define himself as being of any gender or even species. As capital is no longer really provided by possession of land, values such as courage or territoriality are deemphasized for social “feminine” skills because objectively, the former are actually not longer as useful or profitable. You don’t have to defend your cattle from rustlers anymore; you get rich by hobbling as many talented people and getting them to work together.

    The current state of anomie is tragic, but inevitable given the vast changes in society. Insofar as seemingly meaningless rituals go, they nonetheless have value in that their practice affirms a certain identity and sometimes are particularly valuable in that they are irrational. Catholicism, for example, insists that the spiritual quality of bread and wine turn into spiritual flesh and blood of the Savior, despite visual evidence otherwise. Nonetheless, through common agreement of this belief, it creates a certain bond and is useful social technology.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  73. denk says:

    WHAT’S WRONG with CHINA–A Study of Unchanged National Character

    These anglos are so cute,

    China today compared to Qing is like heaven and hell, never mind Qin Xi Huang era,

    WHAT’S WRONG with FUKUS–A Study of Unchanged National Character

    600 years of uninterrupted wars.

    http://i1.wp.com/www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/US-war-graph.jpg?zoom=1.5&resize=426%2C386

    Once a war pig, always a war pig,

    hhhhhh

  74. @Achmed E. Newman

    My reply appears to be lost, so retyping in fewer words. In summary, I’m not sure if the “intent” matters that much; both St. Augustine’s City of God and Marx’s communism can be ideal forms of government, as could the notion of a republic, but in practice it could not avoid ceasing to be the ideal form even during the lives of the founders due to the foibles of human nature. E.g. Jacksonian democracy was specifically what some of the founders were opposed to, but they couldn’t do anything to stop it from happening.

  75. @Daniel Chieh

    You may have missed my last sentence, Daniel (“BTW, ….” ) at the bottom. I agree that there has been corruption at the top level in probably every government, with the US as no exception. I would point back to the railroad construction era for that. One thing to remember is that the bigger the government is, the more area of life and industry it’s involved in, the more flavors of corruption you can have. Going back just a half-century or so, the biggest thing was probably the long-term Senators (esp. in the South) making sure the big military bases got placedthere, or never shut down when they should have been. It took lots of effort, you may recall from 20-30 years ago, to make impartial (ha! maybe?) base-closure committees to get rid of redundancies.

    This is what people never seem to get about Libertarianism. Smaller government doesn’t allow as many areas of corruption, hence fewer opportunities for big money to influence the whole show. The problem with the big banks/banksters is the ultimate example of how, hand-in-hand, corrupt big money men and big gov can destroy a country completely – it’s just not finished yet.

    High level corruption, even when it exists, is felt less and causes less discord than low-level corruption.

    Yes, I agree, and that was my point. The low-level everyday stuff is means a lack of any trust in society besides within the family. That’s how it is in China. That’s NOT how it was everywhere, and still is in some places, in America. I don’t think it’s really a good idea to import lots of people from place where there is no societal trust, do you?

    (I don’t mean a few people here and there, as assimlation does work for numbers like, say, 100,000 newcomers a year that don’t all go to Dearbornistan or Chinatown or Los Angeles.)

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @myself
  76. Realist says:
    @Weaver1

    I agree, but it boils down to lost of pride in self.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
    , @dfordoom
  77. @Daniel Chieh

    It should not, then, be considered as a great surprise that atomization and individuality vastly accelerated in urbanized environments which removed the individual from his family and mores; …

    I don’t agree here. Agrarian America and the wide-open West of 250 – 100 years back were populated with some of the freest and most individualistic people, or families, that ever got to live in this world.

    It really helps having lots of space. Maybe Confucianism WAS best for China, since it has been a pretty crowded place for, like, forever. People don’t realize from a map or globe how little good usuable space there is. There are steep mountains all over the damn place.

    Catholicism, for example, insists that the spiritual quality of bread and wine turn into spiritual flesh and blood of the Savior, despite visual evidence otherwise. Nonetheless, through common agreement of this belief, it creates a certain bond and is useful social technology.

    People take Communion all over Latin America – it’s a ritual that makes life seem more stable, and the probably enjoy that. It doesn’t make them any better people though. That’s got to come from within.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  78. @J L

    I don’t agree. There are a number of outsiders who have provided cogent awareness of China, for example, Richard McGregor. I think a lot of it comes down to attitude and a certain kind of personality; its tragic, perhaps, but it does seem that individuals who come in already with a basically “atheistic” personality will fit in and understand the most. I think he also grew up in various Asian countries for his entire life, so for him, the familiarity is almost innate.

  79. J L says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    but I have met so many Chinese people that know nothing of their own history. Chairman Mao was responsible for a lot of that.

    They do not know your western version of Chinese history….

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  80. @Achmed E. Newman

    Yes, I agree, and that was my point. The low-level everyday stuff is means a lack of any trust in society besides within the family. That’s how it is in China.

    Low level corruption is mostly gone these days by the time I last visited since 2015. A lot harder to give bribes when every most transactions are automatically monitored and the consequences of it is death, usually by “honor suicide.” The low levels of trust still exist but as it becomes unprofitable to be a pianzi, it’ll go away in a generation or so.

    To be honest, I’m a little bit saddened by some of it. The reason why I bring up mores is because I actually don’t believe that hongbao giving, which can be seen as corruption, or the system of mutual indebtedness was actually such a terrible thing in a world where people had to stay set. It very much created a sense of family and relates into guanxi. But as with many things, what works in the past may not work now.

  81. To speak of a “national psyche” nowadays, however, is to trespass into the minefield of Political Incorrectness. The Scots are mean, we used to say blithely; the French are arrogant; the Germans are orderly; the Italians, excitable; the Russians, gloomy; the Irish, pugnacious; and so on.

    Saying such things aloud in 2018 will get you horse-whipped on the steps of your club;

    That calls for prohibition of Tolstoy’s War and Peace, since he sure as hell did just that:

    “Pfuel was one of those hopelessly and immutably self-confident men, self-confident to the point of martyrdom as only Germans are, because only Germans are self-confident on the basis of an abstract notion- science, that is, the supposed knowledge of absolute truth. A Frenchman is self-assured because he regards himself personally, both in mind and body, as irresistibly attractive to men and women. An Englishman is self-assured, as being a citizen of the best-organized state in the world, and therefore as an Englishman always knows what he should do and knows that all he does as an Englishman is undoubtedly correct. An Italian is self-assured because he is excitable and easily forgets himself and other people. A Russian is self-assured just because he knows nothing does not want to know anything, since he does not believe that anything can be known. The German’s self-assurance is worst of all, stronger and more repulsive than any other, because he imagines that he knows the truth- science- which he himself has invented but which is for him the absolute truth.”(c)

    Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace, Book 3, Chapter X.

  82. @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t agree here. Agrarian America and the wide-open West of 250 – 100 years back were populated with some of the freest and most individualistic people, or families, that ever got to live in this world.

    I think this was a kind of belief more than a reality; Jefferson was an excellent example of deeply wishing to maintain the rural nature of the country. But realistically, almost all major achievements came from the urban hubs in despite of the indelible cultural nature that the frontier provided. Industrialization is really an unstoppable force; the Civil War was a pretty solid exemplification of Northern industry.

    I don’t disagree with the freedom in terms of either land or decentralization(I disagree that the individual was as free of his family* ), but I think its immaterial to today’s world . Adam Smith believed that taxation beyond fifteen percent or so was impossible, for example, because taxation was in-kind at the time; centralization was just very hard to implement over any reasonable stretch. This is no longer the case. Space and distance have been abolished; capital is no longer generated by land in any significance and has not since the 30s.

    * Consider the highly collective nature of the Amish farmers, for example, who maintain many rituals from the past. One could even argue that modern individuality combined with high mobility is necessarily toxic to traditional living.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  83. @Daniel Chieh

    Nah, having been to China and knowing some China-people pretty well, I beg to differ. One friend of a friend of mine makes his living just through one corrupt deal after the next. It’s not big-time, but it’s a living. The guy from the county gov. who is involved got sent away for 15 years. Because he still had lots of the money, that turned into a lot less.

    The entire “guanxi” concept is just corruption too, whether any government is involved or not. “I’ll donate these ducks to your cause, so I may expect your wife to make sure my kid gets admitted to that school”. There are whole webs of this stuff, and it’s not going away. That’s who they are.

    What makes guanxi corruption even though it is a long-established custom and is part of “the community” can be understood as seen in comparison to now-ancient America (albeit with faults): “Thanks for the chickens, but standards are standards, and your kid wasn’t accepted.” It’s called integrity. Whatever you, or some nuts on unz, have bad to say against the British, the precursers to the first Americans, their respect for rule-of-law, honor, and integrity was a cut above the rest of the world.

    It’s only a movie, Daniel, but check out <a title=”"http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050212/&quot;http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050212/&quot;Bridge on the River Kwai sometimes. First of all, it’s a great movie, but the beginning scene where the British Colonel, played by Alec Guiness, refuses to do work at the Jap prison camp with the enlisted men. It’s not that he doesn’t want to work; it’s that it goes against the British protocol and “rules are rules, chaps”. His insistence on this way, even though being locked up in the hot sun and beaten, showed his men that they were still British soldiers.

    (The American co-star, William Holden, was not a model of integrity, btw, but …. OK, no spoilers – go get it from the library for free!)

  84. @J L

    They do not know your western version of Chinese history….

    It’s not just that they don’t know the truth, they don’t know ANY version of it. That’s what I just got done writing. No names, no dates or even decades, nothing. You people seem smart but are not often very wise. There is no point in talking to an older Chinese lady for advice anymore, like there was in the past. Just pure materialistic dingbattery is all you’re gonna get.

    If you’re gonna try, make sure she is really Chinese, while you’re at it:

  85. @Achmed E. Newman

    oops, that link got munged up somehow. It looked good in PREVIEW mode.

    Bridge on the River Kwai

  86. A vintage Derb. Classic. I would add only that I think “Oriental” (including Muslims) mind has not developed self-critique. It remains strongly collectivist & unaware of its shadow, to use a Jungian term.
    I know it is one of those generalizations that are impossible to prove, but ….

    • Replies: @John Derbyshire
  87. @Achmed E. Newman

    The entire “guanxi” concept is just corruption too, whether any government is involved or not. “I’ll donate these ducks to your cause, so I may expect your wife to make sure my kid gets admitted to that school”. There are whole webs of this stuff, and it’s not going away. That’s who they are.

    What makes guanxi corruption even though it is a long-established custom and is part of “the community” can be understood as seen in comparison to now-ancient America (albeit with faults): “Thanks for the chickens, but standards are standards, and your kid wasn’t accepted.” It’s called integrity. Whatever you, or some nuts on unz, have bad to say against the British, the precursers to the first Americans, their respect for rule-of-law, honor, and integrity was a cut above the rest of the world.

    This I disagree with. I noted Lincoln’s letter of recommendation earlier as an example otherwise. Is asking someone to give a job to a friend because his father died “in service of his country” not an example of nepotism? John Adams, one of the founders and presumably an excellent example of a citizen, avidly did everything he could to appoint his son JQ Adams into a diplomatic role to groom him for presidency(to his credit, Thomas Jefferson wrote a scathing letter about this). And of course, Andrew Jackson didn’t get his idea of the “spoils system” from thin air; it was a norm where he came from.

    Mild nepotism to assist other men of “good breeding” was hardly unheard of and often seen as something positive; it was intimately tied with the Anglo class system as birth was seen as having positive qualities(which presumably justified bypassing standards) and having a patronage network to provide “letters of recommendation” was seen as a necessary means to gain admittance to college. There’s a reason why standardized testing was adopted by the British from the Chinese, in an effort to increase meritocracy(which the Parliament dubbed at the time as “The Chinese Mandarin system”).

    Nor did this go away even in recent history: Orwell went on a long, long diatribe about in his “Oh, Such Were the Joys” at the overall ridiculousness of it all: that men should be honored for having wealth, but only if they did not earn it through any sort of labor. Now Orwell appears to have a particularly bitter and unhappy school experience, but the perception was clearly there.

    At any rate, guanxi roughly is the same as a patronage network: it means “relationships” and essentially works around the idea of having fictive family. “Though we are not in fact blood-related, we will treat each other as family,” but it does not necessarily mean that all standards are tossed aside. It simply means that there’s an extended web of trust within that, which helps insulate against the larger network without trust. It means that you would ask within them first for which doctors are valuable, and your friends will check first to let you know if there are job openings in their company.

    Is this a form of corruption? Probably. Is this that harmful when not in excess? I have my doubts. Patronage networks exist in Japan(hugely) and Singapore as well; but it has not extended to low level corruption across the board.

    Nah, having been to China and knowing some China-people pretty well, I beg to differ.

    I think that anyone who said “having been to American and knowing some American-people pretty well” would only have a partial impression of America.

  88. @Daniel Chieh

    I think that anyone who said “having been to American and knowing some American-people pretty well” would only have a partial impression of America.

    Indeed, to add to that – one of my best friends is an American who lived in a small town and described it as hellhole filled with meth dealers and hopelessness with deeply corrupt police.

    This is true – for him, and indeed accurately captures a certain (very limited) portion of America. But it would be a poor and not very useful perspective of America as a whole, and indeed, would provide very little information on the actual driving political or capital forces in the US(which, for better or worse, do not come from a small rural towns in TN).

  89. Weaver1 says:
    @Realist

    Oh, ty. Sorry to have wasted your time then.

    I used to could get people into debates with just that much, but now the only debates I seem to get into are over misunderstandings.

    I tend to reduce things to *loss of piety*, but I guess it’s the content not the representative term that matters.

  90. Weaver1 says:
    @neutral

    OK, in a theoretical poli sci debate I’d agree: who rules is what matters.

    But there’s danger in oversimplification. Other lessons should be learned also, such as why powerful Europeans didn’t advance their interests. Part of Jewish power is in how Jews currently advocate for their interests and work together as a group while white Gentiles currently do not.

    My fear is we’ll repeat some of the same mistakes again or we’ll view NS Germany as the alternative, rather than keeping an open mind. NS Germany was too managerial (I mean roughly too centralised) and too progressive. I know little of NS Germany, but it seems to me too modern.

    Also, I don’t believe Jewish power was as dominant then as it is today. I’m not a believer it was only Jews who pushed us into WWII. Never underestimate English ineptitude. And I’m of colonial British descent (half English, half Scot, roughly). The English didn’t appreciate the unique Bolshevik danger. They should have seen the Russians as the greater threat.

    In elite theory, elites drive the world. But I believe elite theory can be misunderstood. There are many elites, and they are disunited. Also, there are unintended consequences, “fate” (sheer luck).

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  91. Yee says:

    Well, “what’s wrong with China”?

    This topic is so very old that 100 years ago Chinese intellectuals wrote countless articles about it. Just go and translate some early 20th century articles from Chinese, they’re way better than some inapt Whites.

  92. Yee says:

    Oh, and many of the problems we had 100 years ago have been solved, so I’m optimistic the rest will be solved in due time. Don’t worry.

  93. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jason Liu

    Universal suffrage is the dumbest idea in the history of political thought. Freedom is hardly the most important thing in society

    A lot of people in the West (in fact almost everyone in the West) have this crazy idea that democracy and freedom are the same thing. They aren’t. In fact it could be argued that democracy is the mortal enemy of freedom (and I suspect most of America’s Founding Fathers would agree).

    Democracies inevitably end up being more repressive than authoritarian regimes, because dissent is a greater threat in a democracy. Authoritarian regimes impose limits on what you can do. Liberal democracies seek to impose limits on what you can think.

  94. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    The Holocaust is a tremendous black mark against western civilisation. It’s the worst crime in recorded history and invalidates any western pretensions of superiority over anyone else.

    • LOL: Alden
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Alden
    , @Ace
  95. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Duke of Qin

    This is where I heartily disagree, the best way to safeguard the Chinese now, as then, is heavily armed isolationism. Triple the defense budget, more nukes, ships, more jets and zero emigration or immigration. Basically buy our shit, stay out, and leave us the hell alone, a historically relevant policy worth emulating.

    Sounds sensible to me. If every country took such a position we’d have a much better world. There’s a great deal to be said for nations minding their own business.

    That’s why I think Australia made a huge mistake in not developing its own nuclear deterrent, back in the days when we were still an industrialised nation. If other nations don’t want to mind their own business nukes are the only viable way of persuading them to do so.

    China is certainly going to need a much stronger military. The U.S. will not tolerate the existence of any alternative worldview or political system. The only way to persuade the U.S. to do so is to make sure they know what the consequences of interference will be.

    • Replies: @Hker
  96. denk says:
    @njguy73

    If not, is the world ready for a superpower with no sense of responsibility?

    Do the Chinese a favor kid, they loathes this label of ‘superpower‘, to them its nothing but a target painted on their back, a red flag to the murkkan bull !

    What might your idea of a ‘responsible’ superpower be,
    the one where 95% of the populace support bombing a country called…
    Agrabah ??

    https://johnmenadue.com/john-menadue-we-are-in-denial-about-the-risks-in-our-relationship-with-the-united-states-part-1-of-2/

    buahahahahah

    • Replies: @njguy73
  97. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Realist

    I agree, but it boils down to lost of pride in self.

    Or too much pride. Too much self-righteousness, too much of a busybody attitude, too little willingness to admit the possibility of being mistaken, too little respect for others. Too much narcissism. That’s the modern West, and that’s especially the U.S.

  98. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Daniel Chieh

    One could even argue that modern individuality combined with high mobility is necessarily toxic to traditional living.

    I think that’s almost certainly true.

  99. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Weaver1

    Part of Jewish power is in how Jews currently advocate for their interests and work together as a group while white Gentiles currently do not.

    Because white gentiles are not a group in any meaningful sense.

    To be a group you need a shared culture, a shared history, ties of kinship, a sense of community. An ethnicity can be a group in that sense, but white gentiles is too broad to have any meaning for anybody.

    You’re also overlooking class. Elites most definitely have a sense of themselves as a coherent group with a shared culture. Elites definitely work together as a group. And it makes no difference if they’re Jewish or non-Jewish, what matters is class. Elites have an intense sense of class consciousness.

    Non-elite whites have no class consciousness. That’s why they get screwed.

    • Replies: @Weaver1
  100. @Jason Liu

    This is a great thread, with a high level of thoughtful comment, far above the “We good, they bad” level that informs way too much cultural commentary in BOTH China and the West. Thanks to all who are contributing.

  101. Hker says:
    @dfordoom

    I doubt the hicks in Australia, with a population of 20m can produce a nuclear bomb nowadays , you can’t even produce your own phone..go back to digging the earth or chasing cattle for the Chinese. Australia should have been colonise by China or Japan long ago…the isolationism, pacifism and an insular outlook only works until some white neanderthal is knocking on your door with technology you invented ( gunpowder). Australians needs to be handled in the same way the indigenous aborigines were cleansed, A taste of their own medicine. Asia for Asians. China needs to actively engage the other races as it is doing and with our superior IQ and number dictate the next tides in history

  102. @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed:

    Deep waters here. I recommend Prof. LaFleur’s lectures on the Analects of Confucius. Executive summary: commentator “Duke of Qin” is more or less right.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  103. @njguy73

    Paul Midler discusses this in his excellent book. Will (for example) China Apologize for the hundreds of foreigners cruelly massacred in the Boxer rebellion? Don’t hold your breath.

    • Replies: @njguy73
    , @llloyd
    , @Joe Wong
  104. @Panopticon

    I don’t know how you get that. I’d like the Chinese to restrict their territorial ambitions to metropolitan China, i.e. get the heck out of Tibet and Eastern Turkestan; but within that zone I’m happy for them t0 be as nationalist as they please.

  105. @Bardon Kaldian

    Bardon:

    Thanks. This is my forte. I’ve read (a) well-nigh every book written by foreigners about China, and (b) much of what the Chinese have written about themselves (yes, including this one).

    • Replies: @TT
  106. Weaver1 says:
    @dfordoom

    Class matters. It doesn’t matter to me, but it matters.

    Being Jewish also matters. It’s clear many of these secular Jews are sympathetic to Israel, and it’s natural that Jews would work comfortably together.

    One way Judaism matters is as TS Eliot warned: They identify neither as European nor as Christian. As such, secular Jews are less likely to conserve the West. So, it isn’t necessarily an intentional “Jews vs. West” situation but rather that secular Jews tend to go “Far Left”, so to speak.

    Mormonism also seems to be relevant.

    I’m open-minded. I believe it’s easy to err on this topic.

    If pursuing certain political changes, then elites, even Jewish elites, shouldn’t be able to abuse the system. I generally want to shrink the super wealthy, shrink large corporations, shrink big government. And I want to empower the middle class. That’s not all I’d change, but that gives an idea of my positioning.

    I view such changes as a sort of struggle among elites. If greater power were given to the middle class, I believe it would be an improvement. I’m not seeking utopia.

    But Judaism, as well as Mormonism and likely other groups, has been significant. Sam Francis wrote the following (which is actually still available online!):

    “If we are looking for the sources of the collective consciousness of “sins” such as “racism,” “sexism,” etc. and the systematic, politically enforced reconfiguration of American society, then the Jewish role in promoting racial egalitarianism, promoting feminism and subverting male social roles, instilling collective guilt, promoting mass immigration, and pushing multiculturalism (through Franz Boas and his disciples in anthropology, the civil rights movement, Freudian psychoanalysis, the Frankfurt School, any number of Marxist and New Left movements, Jewish feminist ideologues like Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, and Susan Sontag, pro- immigration lobbying by Jewish “public interest” groups and individual political figures, and the major architect of multiculturalism, Horace Kallen, not to mention the largely Jewish “neo-conservatism” of recent years) can hardly be ignored. Gottfried, however, does ignore it almost entirely, though he gives a casual and not very complimentary nod to Kevin MacDonald’s work, which he characterizes in a footnote as “methodologically uneven but occasionally illuminating.” (p. 42, n. 5; and see also p. 15, n. 21″

    I like to add Frank Meyers to the list. His “Fusionism” was harmful, in my view. Essentially Meyers “fused” traditional conservatism with libertarianism such that… only the libertarian remained. And a great weakness of the Right has been its ideological fanaticism and Pavlovian tendency to see any deviation from the market cult as “socialism”.

    Rothbard supposedly is a positive influence (I haven’t read much by him). Stephen Miller is the latest Jewish conservative, and he seems to be quite the conservative. Marcus Epstein was once condemned as a “white supremacist” (obviously he’s not) for being a man of character. The Antiwar website is supposedly very Jewish. I think there’s a Jewish guy at VDARE? So, we have lots of “good Jews”. It would be interesting to see the topic explored further. Dr. MacDonald once wrote how Jews in the US South fought for the South, were thus patriotic. So, there is a counter-narrative.

    Again, I’m a colonial Brit, and supposedly the British Empire did plenty of harm. And my state voluntarily embraced slavery. So, I can’t blame everything on Jews. But it is noteworthy how very powerful Jews are today.

    Great potential energy existed which was taken advantage of (not only by Jews). Richard Weaver, for example, warned how those who helped build the bombs used on Nagasaki and Hiroshima didn’t necessarily know what they were a part of. And he condemned “The Great Stereopticon” of mass media. These are societal weaknesses, potential energy, potential abuse.

    And regardless of who is in charge, such structures render a people little more than malleable, interchangeable, oblivious cattle. In short, it’s slavery; The managerial state is slavery. I value hierarchy, obviously (as does most anyone on the Right); but “hierarchy” needn’t mean enslavement.

  107. Anon 2 says:
    @myself

    So does a typical university-educated resident of say, Shanghai, have
    any metaphysical beliefs? In a Higher Power? An afterlife? Or is it
    mostly straight Marxist dialectical materialism?

  108. Realist says:
    @Anonymous

    “It’s the worst crime in recorded history and invalidates any western pretensions of superiority over anyone else.”

    Getting a little overwrought….hey?
    Tend to exaggerate….hey?
    How about Stalin and Mao????

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  109. In the 1930s, Ralph Townsend was convinced that his contemporaries wrote nothing as accurate as that which was produced by Arthur Smith [1890s] and Abbé Huc [1840s]…

    I reviewed Arthur H. Smith’s Chinese Characteristics here.

    The total lack of political correctness a century ago made anthropological writing funny and engaging in a way that is almost impossible today.

    You can even see this wrt to just China – here is another review I wrote about a modern anthropology of China.

    Ross (1866-1951) is an odd person for Midler to quote in this context. He would himself be denounced as the worst kind of bigot today. He was a race realist, nativist, and eugenicist who strongly objected to race mixing—so strongly, he was fired from his professorship at Stanford in 1900 for his views.

    You are never going to be this hardcore.

  110. @Anon 2

    None of the above, in my opinion, #2. At first glance, I thought you meant University-educated/attending Chinese people here in America. That’s all I can vouch for when I state:

    Quite a few attend Christian churches. A minority of them may really be believing Christians, but I think most can not shake the materialism that is all they had for belief their whole lives before. They go to the service, but then the discussions are whether the Pastor should be making that much money, why they bought the big church van (a valid point) and whether the one lady is ripping them off on her home-made tofu (pretty sure).

    Hey, I’m just a lowly observer. I can’t know what’s in these peoples’ hearts, or even what’s coming out of most of their mouths.

    Oh, I never figured out what “dialectic” or “dialectical” mean, and by duckduckgoing it, I feel like I’ll get on some kind of list resulting in SPAM emails about Communism and the latest coffee beans from Co-looom-bee-yah.

  111. @Realist

    Hey, Realist, Stalin and Mao were just attempts at achieving Communism that went somewhat awry. They’re gonna do it right and proper next time, least that’s what a coupla unz writers have told me – Mr.’s Godfree and Petras.

  112. @Daniel Chieh

    Another late reply, Daniel, but just a short story:

    A very religious lady (Christian) out west who we were acquainted with was “told by God” to go to China to help convert people to Christianity. She was a nice lady, but more important to this story, a baker by trade. All I had were (multiple) slices of raspberry cheesecake, and it was damn good, but her store made all kinds of great stuff.

    The family’s (kids and all, including an adopted Chinese little girl) idea was to go to China, somewhere in Zhejang province outside of Shanghai, to open up a coffee shop. It would have baked goods that the Chinese hopefully would love (if they have any decent taste buds at all!). I remember that the husband was going to take some type of blue-collar job, while the woman would talk about Christianity to customers.

    They were not going to bribe anyone for whatever permits they would need to open the bakery. However, more than a whole year went by in China, they tried their best, but the shop was never allowed to open. This family had integrity, but OTOH, I guess not so many Chinese were converted.

    The family came back to America, having wasted that time, completely due to corruption, and probably the fact that the Chinese gov’t doesn’t cotton to religion.

    Now, you can get breaks from a guy from the city or country for whatever, here too, but I’ll tell you this. If you are small time, but you push through the system, you can get things done here eventually, albeit probably with more stress, even if you never go through any dirty channels. You may have to threaten going over people’s heads or even lawsuits, but you can get your way.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  113. @John Derbyshire

    Yeah, couldn’t pull it up on this ole-timey browser due to https, but I’ll look at it on another device later on. Thank you.

  114. @Achmed E. Newman

    The religion thing with respect to the current – Alt-Commie gov they’ve got in China, reminded me:

    How about that Falun Gong business that was going on as far back as the early 2000′s? I remember reading about it in the WSJ, before I ditched that rag. Come on, these people just wanted to hang out together to exercise and meditate. That gave the Chinese government fits, and they attempted to shut it all down.

    There are quite a few Chinese people now who could afford to lose 10-20 lb. They should crank that Falun Gong stuff back up and rebrand it, as “The People’s Falun Gong”, not “your Baba’ Falun Gong” with some way for the people involved to make a profit. Possibly they could pick up trash as part of the exercises and even clean up loogies off the sidewalk (the latter would probably put a big dent in the workforce though ….)

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  115. njguy73 says:
    @John Derbyshire

    Derb, this is why I read whatever you post.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  116. njguy73 says:
    @denk

    You’re right. The U.S. may have once displayed responsibility as a superpower, but no longer does. And will lose that status.

  117. Svigor says:

    Midler calls it “collective narcissism”

    The Jews would know, wouldn’t they? As collectively narcissistic a people as any on Earth. Next time you hear or read a Jew complaining about some people other than Jews, ask him what are the historical sins of the Jews. He’ll tell you “nothing,” or he’ll humblebrag (“too naive,” “too trusting,” lol), or he’ll go ethnocentric (“we aren’t Jewish enough”) or religious (“we forgot G-d’s Law”) but it is extremely unlikely he will give you any actual criticism of anything Jews did to the other. Jews are blameless, and Jews in general are devoid of the White tendency to step out of their own shoes and look at things remotely objectively, or from the other fellow’s point of view.

    China is a vase teetering on its edge, and maintaining balance has been a goal throughout its history.

    This seems an obvious and inevitable consequence of China’s (population) size. China is basically Europe in east Asia; no way in Hell that center would hold for long in Europe. Europeans are too fractious. That the Chinese have managed to do it for so long is a testament to their less fractious character. But there are limits; China’s hold has always been uneasy.

  118. @Achmed E. Newman

    Falun Gong is a political party masquerading as a religion. There’s more to be said about that, but T. Greer of Scholar’s Stage, who is plainly anti-Chinese government, has even gone into this as well. Falun Gong for all practical purposes, is an subversive entity that gathers funds overseas to undermine the government. He compared them to Al-Queda; I would compare them to Scientology. In both cases, it is a religious entity with political intentions. The Party does not welcome that. Good riddance.

    Your friend’s first mistake was to make a store that had a relationship with Christianity. This probably put them on a blacklist. The last mistake was not to address it in a relevant way, such talking to a Communist party official. Bribes aren’t necessary, but not being seen as a threat is. The Party comes before you, China and God Himself as far as the Party is concerned.

    If they want to try again, try Shenzhen. And talk to a Party official for goodness’ sake.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @TT
  119. AaronB says:

    I just read that book by Midler, and it is fascinating. It’s exactly how Jews do business in America, adjusted for different circumstances.

    Every white person should read that book if he’s interested in the future survival of the West. Not in order to “bash” China – but to learn from it!

    And why not? The West must humble itself and learn, because their old tactics just aren’t adaptive anymore. Asians learned from the West when it was clear that their culture was maladaptive – are we gonna be too stubborn to do the same? Are we gonna have to go through some massive trauma like Asians did?

    Right now Asians and Jews have more adaptive tactics than us – why shouldn’t we be humble enough to accept that?

    For the past 500 years our tactics were supreme, but not anymore.

    The essence of Chinese tactics – and Jewish – after all the verbiage can be reduced to one single word: deception, deception, deception.

    Deception is death to innovation. For that you require brutal honesty of the kind the West specialized in for the past few centuries. But let’s be brutally frank – the era of innovation is over. Finished. At best, we are refining existing technologies.

    In this new era the old brutal honesty of the West is maladaptive.

    If the West is to survive, it must reinvent itself and develop a tradition of deception like Sun Tzu. This shouldn’t be impossible because the West has reinvented itself multiple times, like Japan.

    Let’s put aside all sentimentalism and be brutally frank here – the west did not have a culture of brutal honesty because it was more “moral”. They had it because it gave them tremendous power in the form of technology.

    But for whatever reason, technological innovation has dried up, and sticking to a culture of brutal honesty is maladaptive in this new environment.

    If the West wants to survive, it must get rid of its sentimental attachment to morality and honesty and develop cunning – deception.

    There is no other way – the honesty needed to develop new technology is just no longer yielding any fruits and has become a massive chain around our necks.

    A new culture of deception and cunning can coexist with virtue and compassion to some degree, but the extreme development of honesty is an over-specialization that cannot be sustained.

    Another thing westerners should copy from the Chinese and Jews – don’t take the world so seriously.

    Westerners seem terribly in earnest, whereas for Jews and Asians the world and all its imposing social structures are something of a joke.

    Perhaps Buddhism with its theory of the world as an illusion helps the Chinese not be so terribly serious – and perhaps Jews as outsiders and nomads have learned to not see seemingly solid social structures as evanescent.

    But the Western grasp for permanence and stability in an unstable world is seriously maladaptive.

    Life is much more fun when you don’t take it seriously – more of an adventure. It’s this attitude that is the source of Chinese charm.

    We need detachment, not to be so serious, to see life as more of a joke and an adventure.

    Detachment also gives you flexibility and adaptability to novel situations – “beliefs” give you rigidity and death.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @wayfarer
  120. @John Derbyshire

    Ah yes, promoting separatism.

    No.

  121. @Anon 2

    Not Marxism, no.

    I’ll say that like in the US, its mostly agnostic leaning toward atheism. The spiritual leanings that exist are largely toward Buddhism, lesser toward Christianity. Those interested in esoterica often go Taoist.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  122. AaronB says:

    And it’s a myth that China is a peaceful society that seeks harmony – it’s obvious that Chinese society is in a constant state of low level warfare where aggression gets chanelled into business rather than bloodshed. Perhaps that’s better, but aggression there is in spades.

    Maybe it’s time to accept that strife is inescapable and peace an illusion. As a species we will probably destroy ourselves, but why not treat the ride down as a grand adventure?

    And for those of you like me – mystics, poets, and pleasure seekers – who are bored by the competition for status and money, we can develop a self defensive cunning and deception that keeps us afloat in a shifting and tricky world and allows us to follow our impulses in relative freedom, and not taking the world seriously will defend us from being taken in by the seemingly imposing structures of society.

  123. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    And Buddhism and taoism discourage metaphysical speculation – much of Buddhism is the use of subtle logic to make us see all beliefs are untenable and ultimate reality is a mystery beyond words.

    Beliefs are a western peculiarity.

    Abandoning Marxism won’t lead the Chinese into a belief system – but maybe, into traditional practices designed to cope with mystery.

  124. @AaronB

    For what it is worth, I believe that Christianity and evangelical religions are tremendously powerful in their ability to provide justification to do things which would have more “rational” material idea but nonetheless provide valuable experiences and knowledge.

    Its not rational, for example, to go forth as missionaries but that often leads to experiences in other nations and languages, not to mention serves as a meaningful backing for colonization(to protect the local Christians). Its not an accident that Chinese Muslims were always the most hawkish in the dynastic court – wanting to clear a path to Mecca for fellow Muslims, for example, is something that seems irrational but is religiously very sound. A Muslim-dominated China would probably be much larger, though likely not have many of current characteristics of the people.

    In that, I think that evangelical religions can be quite admirable.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  125. @Daniel Chieh

    Bribes aren’t necessary, but not being seen as a threat is. The Party comes before you, China and God Himself as far as the Party is concerned.

    If they want to try again, try Shenzhen. And talk to a Party official for goodness’ sake.

    Hey, Daniel, you were not there, and they were there, for OVER A YEAR. I’m sure if they could have got it done legitimately, they would have. These people were not stupid. They told my friend (cause I haven’t had a chance to see them since) that bribes were required, and they just weren’t gonna do that.

    Nope I doubt they will return to China. Enough is enough.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  126. @Achmed E. Newman

    “Blacklist” means something beyond “wait a year.”

    The error was not in the money; it was because a relationship with Christianity was extant. Beyond that, it ain’t Jian Zemin’s China anymore.

    But my apologies that they had to experience that. I’m sure it was frustrating for them.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  127. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Right, Christianity seen as a “technology” has been very useful – but things change, and we must adapt.

    Flexibility is key.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  128. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The downside of this high level of commercial acumen is long-term commercial failure. Chinese merchants can’t resist the temptation to kill the golden goose for the sake of a couple more cents on the dollar.

    Midler tells the story of tea, which I think is quite well-known. Given that tea is native to China, not (except very marginally) to India, why did the West end up drinking Indian tea, not Chinese tea? Midler:

    The tea industry collapsed in part because growers were sending leaves to market without drying them. This was not a time-saving maneuver. It was done because wet leaves weigh more, and the additional weight brought in more revenue. The problem with moisture is that it leads to mold, which affects taste.

    This passage is particularly jarring given the larger Chinese macroeconomic context. Midler and Derbyshire come off as grandpas with a loose collection of persnickety anecdotes that aren’t illuminating. So how do these sub-optimal Chinese long term business practices fit in within the larger frame of tremendous success as an exporter?

    China’s proportion of global exports rose to 13.8 percent last year from 12.3 percent in 2014, data from the United Nations Conference on Trade and Employment shows, the highest share any country has enjoyed since the United States in 1968.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-exports/china-seizes-biggest-share-of-global-exports-in-almost-50-years-idUSKCN0XJ097

    This is not to say there aren’t a lot of cultural problems and backwardness in how Chinese do things but unless Midler or Derbyshire can meld both observation and larger factual context together into a coherent idea, I doubt they have any value as intelligent commentators on China.

  129. @AaronB

    I don’t know if humanity as we know of it has that much of a future. I think about Kaczynski a lot.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  130. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I hear you, Daniel. I am convinced humanity has no future.

    Like all species, ours will go extinct eventually. Our problems are intractable. Nationalism leads to war. Abandoning nationalism leads to destruction. There is no solution.

    I had this idea that humans “should” be good – I am forced to admit that I simply had the wrong idea about humans. That’s just not the “kind” of animal we are. At what point can you no longer deny reality.

    Rather than being depressing such a reality check can be liberating. No longer hobbled by illusions, we can enjoy the ride while it lasts.

    There is a deep mystery at the bottom of the world, and the value of the world does not depend on the existence of humans.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Corvinus
  131. @Daniel Chieh

    Nah, no apology is necessary from you, but this was a story to illustrate corruption at the local level, as we have been discussing. As far as the Christianity aspect, see, I’m not sure they would have even brought that up (maybe that’s devious, maybe not, cause, after all, it was not supposed to be a Church/Coffee shop/Bakery, as far as I know). I think they just figured they’d open it, introduce the Chinese to good baking*, and then discuss Christ with the customers.

    Back to another point – I just discussed Falun Gong with a Chinawoman, who does not have much political knowledge or interest. She agreed with you that, and used descriptions that would make it seem somewhere in between Jim Jone’s Kool-Aid drinkers** and subversives like, say the antifa. So, I apologize for my lack of knowledge on this group. Is it true that hundreds of them burned themselves to death at Tienanmen Square? That’s what I was told, but it’s hard to get at the real truth, anywhere, these days.

    * As you know, there is not much knowledge of it. I mean, steamed bread, come TF on? ;-}

    ** Man, all this commenting is making me thirsty!

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  132. @Daniel Chieh

    I know someone who is related to a 20-y/o (at the time) who got a number of his fingers blown off by that guy. Kaczynski deserves to be stuck in a hole somewhere. I do think the guy’s thinking was amazingly prescient. Some people may be too smart to live in this world, as they can see all the devious bad stuff coming down and can’t handle it.

    Those types need to get outside and do some work. I bet if Mr. Kaczynski had been spending time improving the cabin, and raising all his own food, it’d have cleared his mind and made him somewhat happier. That’s my prescription, and I wouldn’t have even charged him for it.

    Dr. Achmed E. Newman, psychoanalyst-in-training

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  133. AaronB says:

    Here is a great little anecdote told by a Syrian Jew to the author -

    It was important to Bernie that I knew where he was coming from. Close to the end of the bottle of whiskey, he told me the story of his very first business venture. While still in school, he had an idea to sell watches. He took a train from Brooklyn, where he lived, to Manhattan and found a jeweler that was selling watches for a bargain price. He found another shop that produced boxes that were attractive (“the box cost me more than the watch”), and then he went to a man in his neighborhood called Mark the Printer (“That’s what we called him”) and had some certificates made up on parchment paper.

    “I had business cards made and called myself the Vice President of Disadvantaged Neighborhoods,” Bernie said, “and I told them that I was specially authorized to give credit. You see, no one was giving credit in those days, especially not in the neighborhoods where I was going with these watches. All they had to do was make the first payment, I told them. They could mail me the other three payments.”

    “The watches sold for $180, and each payment was $45. But I didn’t have more than $20 in the whole deal, between the watch, the box, and the parchment.” Bernie took a sip from his glass and looked at me to see if I was paying attention. “You see, these guys that bought my watches, they all figured that they were going to fuck me out of the three payments. But, in the end, I made my profit on just the first payment.”

    This is how fortunes are made. Instead of getting angry at those dastardly Jews why not understand that society, which seems so solid, is actually made out of smoke and mist?

    Instead of a naive faith in IQ and “merit” which offers the comfort that life “makes sense” and things are reasonable and well ordeted, why not accept that at the bottom of life there is chaos?

    Is it scary to admit that the social order is underpinned by sheer nothingness? That IQ would only be a determining factor in a reasonable world that was well ordered – not our world of chaos? Sometimes I wonder if the IQ myth was not invented by people desperate to believe the world was well ordered.

    Shed your illusions, and he free.

    And it isn’t a Jewish or Asian thing – the Elizabethans were master decievers and pirates, and the English acquired India through fraud and deceit. Read your history, white people.

    Greatness is inseparable from fraud and deceit. Underneath the social order is sheer nothingness.

    One may well after seeing this decide that greatness is inane – but surely the stupidest idea is to think that we live in a well ordered world where greatness is the simple reward of genuine merit.

    You can rail at the Jews or the Asians, but we are all condemned to live in a world that is run by these principles. The dream of an isolationist white society organized on different principles is an illusion. Nationalist countries may be more harmonious at home, but they are condemned to practice fraud, deceit, and force on the world stage.

  134. @AaronB

    Well, when we create general purpose AI, even if it means that even if our species was destined Chronos-like to be a father to be betrayed, we nonetheless will leave a legacy for our “children” eve as our remenants of our spieces live in a Tartarus that was our collective subconscious desire.

    I find that hopeful as a thought.

  135. @Achmed E. Newman

    He had his moments of levity.

    A North Dakota woman who worked at a Montana truck stop as a waitress with Kaczynski in 1974 when she was 19, recalled that Kaczynski wrote her three letters after she left.

    The first, she said, was “basically an invitation or a request for me to move to northern Canada and be his squaw.” She said the second letter “was more like a resume” in which Kaczynski told her he had graduated from Harvard and published scientific papers.

    The last letter was an official declaration of surrender from his previous wooing efforts.

  136. myself says:
    @denk

    Ever since at least the 1960s, so-called moral activism in the Western world has been primarily about the activist – his/her worth as a good human being, an enlightened soul, a paragon of virtue.

    Pretty obvious that these crusaders don’t care about the actual causes, or that there are real flesh and blood people for whom they may wish to be doing some good.

    Oh no, far more important to be SEEN and THOUGHT OF as good by one’s peers.

    • Replies: @denk
  137. @Achmed E. Newman

    Yes, some burned themselves to death. But more importantly, they organized significant numbers and tried to subvert the Party and daddy don’t take kindly to that, let’s just say. You don’t try to out-cancer the cancer, damn it.

    Its hard to find out what’s going on in China, to be honest. I consider Richard McGregor to be one of the Western sources on China and he explained it as such: “The West doesn’t try very hard to understand what’s going on inside of China, and the Party tries to be as obscure as possible.” It can make for a difficult combination.

  138. myself says:
    @Weaver1

    Oh I agree, China calls itself “Communist” alright. They have the outer forms, they have the terms.

    But I think it was in 1989 when Alexander Solzhenitsyn toured parts of China, during a key moment in history: the Berlin Wall was about to fall, the Soviet Union was still formally whole, and China had just embarked on the Reform Era.

    What he said was something to the effect of “What I am seeing in action in China is not any kind of Communism I’ve ever seen in my life.”

    Point is, I would wager that present-day China is the country which is the least bound by any sort of dogma or ideology or indeed of any arbitrary self-conception.”We are good Communists or “We are a Republic and Democratic, etc” – said no Chinese in the last 30 years.

  139. myself says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    My personal experience in China is that there was almost no low- and mid-level corruption or bribery, at least in the cities. I never experienced any difficulties in residence changes, visa renewals, nor any kind of hint from anyone that giving gifts or “reciprocity” was expected or wanted. Chinese municipal areas are run as very tight ships.

    Life in China is simple as a private citizen. You got to know the rules, you followed them, everything went smoothly. If you didn’t follow them, things get hard for you.

    Now, that’s in the cities, at the low/mid levels of governance. Didn’t have a problem. Also noticed many restaurants had a “no tipping” rule – the waitresses returned tips, pointing out that they were not needed, nor allowed. Don’t know what was up with that. Maybe to discourage favoring certain customers over others? Level of service was always consistent, though.

    Out in rural areas, pretty sure there must be some bribery, “gift” giving and corruption. No idea of the extent.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  140. DB Cooper says:
    @John Derbyshire

    “I don’t know how you get that. I’d like the Chinese to restrict their territorial ambitions to metropolitan China, i.e. get the heck out of Tibet and Eastern Turkestan;”

    Standard clueless statement. Why don’t you ask India to get the hell out of South Tibet, which was invaded and annexed by India in 1951?

    • Replies: @denk
  141. Corvinus says:
    @AaronB

    “I hear you, Daniel. I am convinced humanity has no future.”

    So you espouse a belief that people are essentially meaningless, and that life on earth is futile. Feel free to hold that opinion.

    “Like all species, ours will go extinct eventually.”

    MAY go, or COULD go, but not WILL. Your fatalism is duly noted.

    “Our problems are intractable. Nationalism leads to war. Abandoning nationalism leads to destruction. There is no solution.”

    Of course there are solutions. You are being ridiculous here.

    “I had this idea that humans “should” be good – I am forced to admit that I simply had the wrong idea about humans. That’s just not the “kind” of animal we are. At what point can you no longer deny reality.”

    The reality is that most people are good in a number of different ways. Whether or not they “should” be in each and every situation demonstrates our fallibility.

    “There is a deep mystery at the bottom of the world, and the value of the world does not depend on the existence of humans.”

    Thankfully, very few people on this Earth value your extreme skepticism, that nothing in the world has a real existence.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  142. @myself

    That’s just not the personal experience of Chinapeople I know, but I’m glad to hear your story. I will add that you’re a Westerner, right, just trying to get by. Hell, you could be paying double, for all you know. I know that’s how it goes at hotels, if you don’t know how to bargain. (Yes, the lady from my bakery story was American, but I think that all was on a higher level, since she was a foreigner opening a business, vs. just a guy trying to live in China for a while.

    I know about the no tipping, but that brings up a funny story that took place in NYC Chinatown. I was buying a Chinese lady dinner there, and she said “well, this place is just like China, you don’t have to tip.” I didn’t believe that at all, but she kept insisting. “OK, fine.” (It was just $12 total).

    About 100 ft outside the restaurant door, the waitress caught up with us “Hey, you have to leave a tip, you know.” or something. “You’re Chinese, and we’re in Chinatown”, I said. “Everything is just like China.” “No, this is New York.” “Well, it’s too late now!”

    Needless to say, we didn’t go eat anywhere near that block on the rest of the trip, as the lady I was with was worried about expectoration, at the very least!

  143. @Duke of Qin

    “subjugating others… is a really bad idea. It is inevitably going to result in foreigners entering China in unprecedented numbers. This has happened before in China’s past”

    When was that?

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
  144. JJ says:
    @John Derbyshire

    The double standard and hypocrisy of some whites is unbelievable, and you are making your people look bad. If China needs to leave Tibet and Xinjjiang, then white people should get out of North America and Australia at the minimum.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  145. Yee says:

    Unlike the Greeks, Chinese culture throughout history has been emphasizing agriculture and restraining commerce (重农抑商). Intellectuals> farmers> craftsman> merchants, was the line of importance for China. Merchants at the bottom. We have words for “evil merchant” (奸商), none for farmer or craftsman.

    Westerners should learn some basic about Chinese culture before they write anything about China. Focus on the least important group of people wouldn’t lead you to understand China.

    As aggressive as Chinese merchants are doing business around the world, you can bet that China’s real efforts will be put into actual productions. It’s a tradition.

    Merchants will not hold enough power to de-industrialize and financialize the economy.

    • Replies: @myself
  146. denk says:
    @John Derbyshire

    No,
    You first, John !

    USA.
    CANADA
    OZ
    NZ
    HAWAII
    GUAM
    PUERTO RICO
    DIEGO GARCIA,
    OKINAWA
    JEJU
    KOSOVO
    IRAQ
    AFGHANISTAN
    SYRIA
    ….
    LAST BUT NOT LEAST, INDIAN NE, AKA SOUTHERN TIBET
    THE TIBET THAT NO ANGLOS WANNA TALK ABOUT

    [PARTLY ROBBED BY THE BRITS AND BEQUEATHED TO THE INDIANS,
    PARTY GOBBLED UP BY INDIA AFTER ITS OWN INDEPENDENCE]

    • Replies: @denk
  147. denk says:
    @DB Cooper

    The anglos owes the SEVEN SISTERS big time,

    By my side is Yongkong, a Naga who has been in exile in London since the 1960s.

    He watches the film quietly; the villagers gathering to give their testimonies, one by one. A woman in white describes what the soldiers did to her children. A man, a rice grower, twists and turns as he re-enacts the various forms his own torture took – finally opening his mouth to the camera and showing the place where his teeth were before the Indian soldiers plucked them out with pliers.

    Testimony after testimony, the horrors unfold.

    A man describes how nails were driven into his eyes. There is plenty that people do not talk about in front of the camera. That comes out in written testimonies.

    Mass rape is used as a systematic weapon of abuse. People of both sexes are subjected to a humiliating public torture involving hanging upside down with chilli peppers inserted into their orifices

    Nagaland was simply handed over – or betrayed – by the departing British in 1947.

    ‘I started by telling them that as a British man I knew I was part of their problem and I was ashamed of this. It was my country that betrayed them in 1947 and was carrying on betraying them by failing to say anything about what was happening now.

    the British and Indian organizers of the trip have since warned the visitors not to speak to the press about their experiences as this could harm Anglo-Indian relations

    https://newint.org/features/1994/06/05/keynote

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  148. denk says:
    @myself

    Those ‘human rights activists’ are nothing but witting/unwitting patsies
    serving fukus agenda.

    They’d fly 3000 miles to Beijing to protest on the Tibet rail way project, while real genocides were perpetrated at next door India’s Tibet, a hand me down from the departing Brits.

    The NE ‘chinkie faced’ people suffered a double whammy under Indian rule

    At home, they groan under the brutal AFSPA ‘anti insurgency law’, a license to torture, kill, rape with impunity, another hand me down from the anglos.

    When NE folks go to the heartland to study or work, they’r singled out for racial violence and sexual assaults cuz they look like Chinese. Every other day there’r NE people getting beaten up, killed and gang raped in Delhi and other cities cuz their ‘chinki look’, low life rapists there especially have a fetish for fair skinned ‘chinki faced’ females.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Alden
  149. DB Cooper says:
    @denk

    Recently a five year old Tibetan girl was raped and beheaded by two Indian men in occupied South Tibet (so called Arunachal Pradesh). Just another typical day in occupied South Tibet and in India.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/india-young-girl-rape-murder-suspects-arunachal-pradesh-beaten-to-death/

  150. DB Cooper says:
    @denk

    The hypocrisy of the West stinks to high heaven. Massive human rights abuse occur in Nagaland and the Northeast in India on a daily basis and the West say not a word. A few years ago Indian troops gun down hundreds of protesters in Kashmir on one day and the West mums not a word.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @denk
    , @Malla
  151. utu says:

    IMO the theories about (1) tea India vs. China and (2) opium with sesame seeds are total BS.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  152. @Daniel Chieh

    I don’t think derb would be happy till chinese are groveling at his feet :) with his superior genes and all :) a chinese civil war and chinese killing each other is probably his wet dream.

    and so many retarded serpenza video links in the comments. the guy is literally cancer to actual knowledge and information.

  153. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    The worst crime in western history was the Jewish communist holomodor, gulag and other vicious things the Jews did to destroy Russia and Central Europe.

    Affirmative action is the second most eeee vvviiii lllll thing that has ever happened in the history of the earth.

    The third most evil affront to the eye is those god awful hideous 99 cent store looking white vertical blinds in residential housing. Offices are where we suffer all day to earn a living. So those supremely ugly vertical blinds are ok because work is horrible anyway.

    But what possessed contractors and landlords and sellers to put those horrible things in homes and apartments? Who invented those horrors? De debbil made dem do it.

    Drab beige, gray and mud green carpet and furnishings combined with White walls is the 4th most evil thing that has ever happened.

    Beets and eggplant and slimy artificial meat Subway sandwiches should be added to things that should not exist.

  154. Alden says:
    @DB Cooper

    Don’t blame the West, blame the liberal media which is more interested in hating White Europeans and Americans than reporting world news.

  155. Alden says:
    @denk

    I’ve read about those people who the Caucasian Indians dislike. Sorry, as a member of the untouchable persecuted White race in America I’m too busy trying to survive genicide by American liberals to help other persecuted ethnic groups.

    Here is what you should do to help those Asians in NE India. You don’t need to live in America to do it.

    1 Spend a few hundred USD to form a non profit educational charitable cooperation in an American state. Give it a name like save the whatever’s.

    2 hire a commission grant writer and fundraiser. There are tens of thousands of them in the USA. He or she will get grants from endless government agencies ( taxpayers) and other charitable educational foundations. The foundations exist to raise money and disburse the money to other foundations know as NGOs or non government organizations or grant hustlers or poverty pimps or cause people

    Charitable educational foundations are a big, big business in America.

    The grant writer will get the money, charge you a percentage and you get the rest of the money.

    3 use the money to hire a public relations agency to put articles about the persecution of Asian looking people in NE India. The American media is constantly on the lookout for politically correct minorities being persecuted by various governments.

    4 you’ll need to be very, very politically correct. Your public relations agency can write the press releases to be politically correct to appeal to the liberal press.

  156. @Daniel Chieh

    I know Russians of all political persuasions. Yet, amazingly, not one of them feels persuaded morally that Chechnya or Crimea should not be part of their country

    You sure about Chechnya? I’m pretty sure the Russian right wants out of Chechnya.

  157. Alden says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Hi there, your Grace, haven’t heard from you in a while. You always have interesting things to say.

  158. Alden says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Maybe his excellency is right. It’s my opinion that both China and the United States have enough people, territory, resources and different climate that both countries could do very well with isolationism. Both countries can grow their own food and produce just about everything they need.

    Although China needs to import oil and gasoline no? Both countries should take care of themselves. America invaded the world militarily while China invades the world with cheap garbage that falls apart and poisonous dog food.

    American made furnaces, hot water heaters, stoves refrigators and other neccisities lasted 30 years. Your Chinese garbage breaks down in 10 or less.

    Most people think China can’t produce durable major purchase goods like furnaces. I think China makes garbage that falls apart so quickly to keep creating sales of the neccisities like furnaces stoves hot water heaters etc.

    • Replies: @Duke of Qin
  159. Alden says:
    @denk

    Wouldn’t that cause a war between India and China. Lots of wars have started because country A took up the cause of a persecuted minority in country B.

    Or is that what you want, a war with China grabbing that part of NE India?

  160. Alden says:
    @The Wobbly Guy

    10 million died in the Taiping rebellion. Farms, towns and workshops and factories, shipping, wagons, bridges horses and mules were all destroyed leaving a wasteland.

    A lot of the refugees ended up all over Indonesia, the Philippines and got to California a little before the Gold Rush. A lot of the old California Chinese are descended from them.

    Most western histories of China don’t even mention it. 2 retarded emperors in a row didn’t help either.

    China has had its ups and downs. It’s on a roll right now. Every country has its cycle.

  161. Alden says:
    @J L

    Might be a good idea to define what country you’re writing about. China???

  162. @anon

    I can only speak for Australia.
    The analogy of boilng the frog comes to mind.
    Prior to WWII there was very minimal non-anglo immigration. (Tiny Chinese community- active official racism)
    After WWII we under went the ” populate or perish” government policy. Active government encouragement of immigration from the UK …AND Italy, Greece etc. This proved something bof a culture shock.
    However, by the 70′s that immigration had been digested…. just in time for the flood of Vietnamese refugees. This was felt to be a moral obligation not ideology. Then came the Lebanese & political correctness in the late 70-80′s. After that: open slather, full throttle PC, no holds barred. So — 2018….

  163. I wonder if a book exists written by a Chinese with the title ‘What is wrong with the west ?’.
    The title of the book reminds me of Bernard Lewis book, I never read it, about Islam ‘What went wrong ?’, or something like that.
    Wrong is not an objective word or idea, it is subjective.
    A Syrian migrant in the Netherlands is reported to want four wives, we think this wrong, he does not.

  164. Alden says:

    Lords of the Rim by Sterling Seagrave is an excellent book about China.

    . Seagrave comes from a family that lived in China since the mid 19th century raising tea. So he is knowledgeable. The book covers the last thousand years of Chinese history. But the major part is about how and why the Chinese have always left China to spread all over E. Asia

    He’s written other books about China. Of course I don’t know that much about China to really judge his accuracy. But he writes about China, not China and the west like most non Chinese do.

    Seagrave thinks the reason the Chinese spread all over the world is because the Chinese governments were often tax gouging , bribe demanding dictators at every level. So the Chinese fled when the governments were nasty and stayed when the governments were decent.

    I don’t know if any Chinese agree with Seagrave but his book seems very knowledge to me.

  165. Alden says:
    @Jason Liu

    Why can’t China be China and let the culture of the West alone? I doubt you realize how strong insane liberal culture in the West is.

    • Replies: @Jason Liu
  166. @anon

    In an authoritarian state, the government can move right on economic issues while staying conservative on social issues like immigration. You can’t seem to do this in a western democracy. If you shift right on economic issues you end up having to shift left on a range of social issues. Conversely, if you want to push some conservative social policies you need to push left on the economic front to attract the working and lower-middle class.

    Since the economic shift to the right in the late 1970s, there has been a decreasing amount of political space to push right-wing social policies and views. Trump has move the Overton window a little to the right, but if his rhetoric about helping the white working class rings hollow, then the window will shift left again.

  167. Alden says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Do you live in China? Do you know anyone in the people’s congress, the state council, high ranking military or members of the central committee of the communist party?

    Would a newspaper or magazine print your plans for China? You can start a website. Why would China want to go to war with any country? You are now and throughout history supreme in Asia. India and the west are too far away to harm China. I suppose China could invade Russia but why?????

    China has a nice solid chunk of territory. You have no need to expand. You make practically everything and the world is thrilled to buy it. China is the workshop of the world.

    Why would China want to start a war and with whom?

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  168. myself says:
    @Yee

    Some westerners seem to equate the Chinese term Merchant with Businessman or Entrepreneur. That is simply not the case.

    I think, in the Chinese context, Merchant means broadly, “middleman”. More specifically “speculator”.
    People who interpose themselves between producers (such as artisans, farmers, tradesmen – those who actually create value) and consumers.

    The founder-CEOs of Alibaba, Tencent, Baidu etc. are not Merchants.

    Those who buy houses and land with the goal of flipping them (much harder to do now in China than in the West), as well as stock and financial instrument speculators, are Merchants.

    In China, Finance serves actual value production, not the other way around. Speculators are regarded as maybe one rung above Con-artists in the eyes of the public, if even that.

  169. Bill P says:
    @Duke of Qin

    In my experience, the “Henan peasant” (Hebei actually — I never spent time in Henan) was a lot nicer than the cutthroat real estate shark. Chinese peasants are some of the best people I’ve ever known. Generous, friendly, hospitable, humble, diligent, etc.

    In a sense I agree with the early Chinese communists in that China’s system was based on the exploitation of these people and gave them very little in return. However, despite decades of communism, things don’t seem to have changed, and that certainly isn’t the fault of Westerners.

    China’s biggest problem is philosophical. To the Chinese, this world and the ideal world are sort of parallel universes that aren’t directly connected to each other. To Westerners, what we do in this world is directly connected to an ideal outcome.

  170. Lin says:
    @John Derbyshire

    >>get the heck out of Tibet and Eastern Turkestan<<
    Why? Tibetans reap much economical benefits from rest of china and the homo-pedo lama theocracy which encamped something like 1/4 to 1/3 of Tibetan males was dismantled. Tibet economy will collapse overnight without china; just how well off are the Dalai's boys in India,eh?
    Nor will China allow Tibet to be controlled by US or india military bases.
    As with Xinjiang, are you, a self-proclaimed 'china hand' not know that China has a long history in central asia, as long as the Urghurs? The original inhabitants of Xinjiang were not Turkic Urghurs, actually a Persian speaking people, still there, numbered in 10s of 1000s the last time I checked their numbers.
    ……
    One more interesting bit, the semi-legendary Chinese heroine Hua Mulan was actually not a Han. She was the daughter of a non-han military chief who served the Chinese king/emperor in that part of central asia. I personally suspect 'Hua' is a local phonetical translation of 'Farsi'. Likely Mulan was ethnic Persian.
    ………
    I must remember you the limey imperial design on Tibet could only exists in the form of internet babble

  171. llloyd says: • Website

    China where I have lived for eight years certainly has its faults. I have gone nuts myself a few times of which I am heartily ashamed. The good thing about China is a culture where the Government sincerely tries to improve the living standards of the entire population maybe minus migrant workers who conveniently disappear out of the statistics. The Government system views its legitimacy not by winning elections but by material general progress. I consider a truly diabolical Government has never existed in China. Chinese culture ensures social order by tranquillity. If it does break down, it becomes simply banditry. So no Pizzagates in reality or urban legend.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  172. I like how a number of commentators here have not been gamed using the reciprocity effect.

    Some white author will do a so called “nuanced” article about China and then some people feel the need to reciprocate because compared to the other all negative pieces authors, so they feel he should be cut some slack or worse, he is a friend who could educated without realising they just got gamed.

    A person offering you pure poison to consume is not worse than the one offering you poisoned wagyu steak.

    Bravo fellas!

  173. @Achmed E. Newman

    Ha! Democracy!!! that hallowed piece of crap that provides Uncle Sam (or is it Uncle Schlomo??) to bomb the crap out of many countries!

    Nice to see it crumbling in the belly of the beast I left quite a white ago!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  174. wayfarer says:

    The strongest governments on earth cannot clean up pollution by themselves. They must rely on each ordinary person, like you and me, on our choices, and on our will. – Chai Jing

    • Replies: @denk
  175. Looking through the reactions here I wonder what is being discussed.

    In my usual immodest opinion it is quite simple, the Chinese in power realised that if they kept the centrally controlled economy, they would go the way of the communist leaders of the USSR.

    The USSR leaders never realised, until maybe it was too late, that a centrally controlled economy cannot produce the consumer goods the consumer wants.
    When tv and radio taught the USSR masses that their counterparts in the west had houses, cars and refrigerators, they wanted these things too.
    It led to the end of communist rule, for what is was worth.

    The Chinese communist leaders realised that they also would be swept away, unless they let the profit motive in, to a certain extent.
    A Dutch woman representing Dutch universities in China once explained ‘the Chinese do not bother about democracy, as long as they are ruled well’.
    One cannot eat democracy.

    Of course, liberating the economy to a certain extent brings political tensions, some in China do not accept the rule by a party oligarchy.
    I wonder what part of the population they are.

    What we now see more and more in the EU is the opposite ‘what is wrong with the EU ?.
    Those in power tell us all the time that things are going better and better, alas very few experience that, maybe half are of the opinion that things are getting worse and worse.
    And yet, we can vote.
    At the last EU elections 30% voted, I never did.

  176. @The Wobbly Guy

    Look here now, aren’t you buying into the Western kool aid that quality, being concerned about one’s reputation, etc, is something that can only found in Western cultures, or some variant of it is mostly like that in the West but only sometimes like that in China…

    That there are Singaporeans thinking like you shows the negative effects of British Colonialism. Singaporeans (Chinese) do say they kept the best British culture while the UK is now full of chavs and the like while retaining their Chinese heritage which I largely agree. But it also seems to made ‘you guys’ more susceptible to Western propaganda at perhaps an unconscious level.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt that 名誉 is a Japanese loan word/term from the last century.

    I suppose there is a certain amount of resentment that China is eating Singapore lunch at at increasing pace. But Lee Kuan Yew anticipated this would be so and said so like 30 years when he said Singapore needed to become a knowledge economy to hold it’s own against China. And you guys are still trying to be one. But it’s not China’s fault that the 2 Prime Ministers after him lacked his execution ability or the benefit of having Albert Winsemius as his Zhugeliang and his plans failed to come about.

    If anything, Singapore or perhaps more accurately, the PAP should learn to pragmatic and accept things and see if there is a way to make the most of things as you guys would say. I mean in spite of Lee Hsien Loong, top CPC cadres are still sent to NTU right?

    Anyway, gong xi fa cai and so on and so forth…

    • Replies: @TT
    , @TT
    , @TT
  177. @Lin

    I never understand chinese posters. why do you always defend? learn to attack stupid writings like that.

    if china should give up those 2 areas, usa should give up it’s land in it’s entirety. all the white people in asian countries should gtfo too. qing chinese empire’s conquest of tibet was before the founding of usa :)

    see, a simple attack that throws hypocrisy like that into their faces. rub it into their faces. make it bleed.

    I don’t attack derb much because I consider him to be a sad, scared, old man who is just watching out for the white heritage. but as a chinese, you can :)

    • Replies: @Lin
  178. @Alden

    Consumer durables today are really not so durable, but relative to incomes they are an order of magnitude cheaper than the good old days. The ultimate person responsible for this is the consumer. They demand cheaper. The manufacturer provides it. There are product engineers whose whole job is to “optimize” a product by removing material to save costs and shipping. Durability suffers but that’s OK. It may last half as long but it’s a quarter of the price and more importantly the consumer gets to experience that delirious high of buying something shiny and new.

    You want something well made and that will last? Expect to pay through the nose. Not just big name brand levels of expensive who are just as skin flint as any mass market manufacturer but more along the lines of $700 for a fruit juicer expensive. Want furniture that’s not pleather and particleboard? Expect to pay 10x what major retailers charge.

    • Replies: @Alden
  179. Jason Liu says:
    @Alden

    I’d like that, but the west is on a moral crusade to spread its values everywhere. Just read this article from the NYT, written by a frumpy feminist:

    https://nytimes.com/2018/02/20/opinion/china-women-birthrate-rights.html

    Listen to the condescending tone, the use of liberal ‘women’s rights’ rhetoric to undermine China’s efforts at fixing its aging population.

    Liberal democracy is the most hegemonic political ideology in history. Despite what Duke of Qin says, withdrawing from the world and playing turtle forever is not a sustainable solution. We must go on the offensive, and change international norms until liberal culture is either dismantled, permanently diluted, or at least stops encroaching on non-western countries.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Alden
  180. @Mitchell Porter

    Biggest example was during the Tang and probably China’s biggest mistake with multiculturalism. Back then the Chinese were much more xenophilic even compared to to the today, or at least the elites were. The Chinese expansion into Central Asia brought a slew of foreigners into China, primarily Turks and various Iranian peoples. Things were so bad that imperial capital was (well the Western one) was being turned into Londonistan light. Despite doomsayers cautioning against this, the Court was indifferent at best or actively hostile. These are loyal subjects you see and they have our best interests at heart! Long story short one of these foreigners social climbs his way into a governorship over the heart of North China. Things get so ridiculous that the man begins actively dismissing Han Chinese military officers under his command and replacing them with his coethnics and the gullible Chinese actually sign off and approve of these transfers. Stop me if this type of ethnic subversion sounds familiar. Unlike today though, they weren’t content with merely controlling the Media apparatus and made a big play for the Army bureaucracy. Naturally this results in an ethnic coup attempt which is mistakenly labeled as a Civil War.

    • Replies: @Alden
  181. Lin says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    >>I never understand chinese posters..<<
    You misunderstood me. First of all, there's a number of things I hardly bother to react, like
    1)Someone claim Chinese to be stupid, non-innovative, copycat-like…
    2)State how poor china is. China sure is poor; even the skilled construction workers in Chinese cities don't make more than the equivalent of US min.wage.
    ……..
    I basically tried to point some obvious BS regarding history,like 1) anti-Chinese propagandists paint how 'spiritual' is Dalai lama and his theocrazy, basically whitewashing the fact he, like his long list of predecessors have been the most oppressive theocrats and the low caste Tibetans were their victims 2)All the infrastructure work in Tibet built at great Chinese expenses were designed to 'exploit' Tibetans. 3)Chinese in central asia(some people even ignore how the word 'silk road' came to being and it's implication.)
    I vividly remember many years ago a certain pro-dalai female exile who claimed Chinese built toys factories in Tibet, exploited child labours there and exported those toys to US to make a few $. Such propaganda basically hinged on ignorance related to Tibet; in this case simply transportation to and from Tibet is generally expensive; if Chinese wanted to export toys,why not build the factories in coastal area?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  182. Normally I just lurk but I have something for the agitated Chinese commentors here:

    The battle line is drawn. Their intention is now known. Your energy should be directed at the preparation for the coming conflict that will define the current century. If you want to say anything it shouldn’t be said to the opposition here and it certainly shouldn’t be in English. Discuss how to prevail or at least survive the coming conflict with your own kind. Raise awareness. Wake the people from slumber. Counter enemy propaganda at home. Being butthurt here achieves nothing. Actually do something to make a difference.

  183. @HogHappenin

    Reading comprehension, dude… it’s not just for big-character posters.

  184. Joe Hide says:

    China and the Chinese have had dense populations on limited land and and resources for so long that a dog eat dog economic momentum developed. As per capital income increases the average Chinese should tend to eat beef, pork, and chicken instead of dog (That was a 1/2 joke …. ha!). My European ancestors were even more dog eat dog driven until their descendents achieved economic security. I expect we of the West should recognize this fact and up our business and political negotiation skills (We need to grow a pair), …. until the Chinese have become as economically complacent as we have become. Then we won’t have to be as whiny, easily emotionally triggered, and privilege expectant as many expats seem to be. Advice: Raise tough kids. Don’t give them money, make them work for it. Start them young, like at 5 years old making their own beds and feeding the cat. Make them do homework first thing when home from school. If affordable, send them to a good private school that doesn’t prioritize political correctness. Make them go to church, the synagogue, whatever weekly so they become habituated to boring but necessary mindless activities in life ..
    while keeping it clear that the institutions religious leaders may have some crazy ideas. Promote playing musical instruments, esp. of classical music. Have wall paper with scientific symbols and formulas so that Math & Science is childhood on familiar and easier for them. Ask questions like “What do you think?” … and don’t correct their answer, unless it is totally crazy.
    Have a good day!

  185. wayfarer says:
    @AaronB

    Deception is death to innovation. For that you require brutal honesty of the kind the West specialized in for the past few centuries. But let’s be brutally frank – the era of innovation is over. Finished. At best, we are refining existing technologies.

    Invention or innovation.

    An art, a science, a spiritual handout.

    Creation, never sleeps.

    Creator shares its work, unconditionally.

    Cosmic designs and universal laws.

    A wild juicy orange, is yours for the taking.

    Infinitely giving, only hoping that we might pay it forward.

  186. Snowman says:
    @SimplePseudonymicHandle

    The fact is, the average IQ of Chinese people is 105, while the average IQ of Americans is 98. Combined with the fact that the size of China’s population is 4 times that of America, that means the size of the smart fraction (population with IQ above 120) of China is more than 5 or 6 times greater than America’s. So compared to America, China is indeed a country of “superhuman” potential. No “superhumanizing” has taken place.

    And people are oblivious (or pretend to be oblivious) of the fact that prior to the 17th century, China had been the world’s most advanced civilization for two or three millenias straight. The living stardard of imperial China had been generally higher than that of Europe of the same period. This is a well documented fact.

    In fact, in my opinion the MSM of America is still underestimating modern China’s potential, not overestimating.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  187. Alden says:
    @Jason Liu

    It might help if the American Chinese and Asians didn’t always vote democrat.

    There is a Chinese Republican Party club in California, but they are for Taiwanese independence from China.

    The rest of the Asian activists and voters are solidly in the liberal democrat party camp along with the blacks Jews Hispanics gays trannies feminazis enviro wackies and the rest of the lunatic liberals.

    There was an anti affirmative action proposition 209 on the ballot in California 22 years ago. It passed. But Chinese and other Asians who voted voted in favor of affirmative action and against Prop 209.

    There was another proposition denying welfare and other benefits to illegal aliens on the ballot. Chinese and other Asians voted against it.

    Chinese and other Asians are part of the liberal coalition. They don’t worship blacks, gays , trannies, black criminals and the environment as liberal Whites do, but they vote for the democrats.

    San Francisco is a liberal lunatic city. Chinese and other Asians are a substantial voting bloc and always have been. Yet despite all their conservative values they keep voting in the liberal lunatic Mayors and board of supervisors

    And the Asians of San Francisco want it to be a sanctuary city because their restaurants and factories and stores employ lots and lots of illegal alien Chinese indentured servants.

    American Asians also want to import their parents and grandparents so they can get SSI for the aged and parasite off the old age medical care, free bus passes, free food, free taxi service and other old age benefits Americans work 45 or 50 years for. But the Asian parasites get those benefits within a month of their arrival.

    Face it Jason, American Asians are united with the liberal lunatics of the Democrat party despite the conservative values they practice in private. For instance, Nancy Pelosi’s district is known as West Chinatown. If the Asians in her district voted against her, she wouldn’t be in Congress.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Jason Liu
  188. Moi says:
    @jim jones

    Here, in the US, we just walk over them, no?

    • Replies: @jim jones
    , @Bill
    , @TT
  189. Alden says:
    @Duke of Qin

    I know all that and more.

    All my wood furniture except for solid alder custom made book cases is antiques real antiques mostly walnut, some mahogany and no oak or god forbid pine. Couches and chairs are Baker Henredon etc with waverly and to the trade only fabric.

    Leather couches and chairs? Tacky tacky tacky tacky tacky

    IKEA furniture is just garbage and worse than Chinese furniture

    But non Chinese made household appliances are just not available Toys? Computers and TVs? Lawn mowers vacuum cleaners sewing machines, tools? Nails? 2/3 of the nails sold in America from China bend at the first stroke of the hammer The threading on faucets and pipes doesn’t work. What brands are not made in China?

    Well made toys and tools are still
    Made in Germany but you can’t find them in American stores.

  190. @Reg Cæsar

    Czechia is a phonetic abomination. Worst idea ever. If you need a nickname for the land that doesn’t include the word “republic”, it should be Bohemia.

    To the extent I’ve seen people argue against Bohemia they usually say because the Czech Republic includes Moravia as well. But the medieval kingdom of Bohemia included Moravia, and also Silesia.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  191. @Alden

    No, he could be prosecuted for hate speech in China or more specifically, “Han chauvinism.” Such actions promote separatism, which is the Party has pretty firm opinions about.

  192. @Snowman

    And people are oblivious (or pretend to be oblivious) of the fact that prior to the 17th century, China had been the world’s most advanced civilization for two or three millenias straight. The living stardard of imperial China had been generally higher than that of Europe of the same period. This is a well documented fact.

    Eh. I don’t know about that.

    Roman and Han dynasty was roughly comparable for their time period, and the only time that China could conclusively be considered as ahead was during the Tang and that was because Europe had just self-destructed into the Dark Age. Byzantium alone still saved some of the technology of Rome then, but it was too busy surviving to advance into anything.

    And following the Renaissance, Europe pretty much overtook everything.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  193. jim jones says:
    @Moi

    I fainted in the centre of London and the next thing woke up in an NHS ambulance – some passers by had phoned for help. My wallet was still in my pocket.

  194. nsa says:

    Every Chinese household has been promised a white houseboy by the year 2050. The bellwether Mrs. Derb already has one.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  195. Alden says:
    @Jason Liu

    I read the article.

    Hard to figure out what she wanted to say. At first the idea was Chinese women should have more children. Then she attacked the Chinese government propaganda that educated women should have babies before age 29.

    Why read the NYSlimes anyway, especially the op ed pages? All editorial pages in America are just a lot of White hating ignorant pompous puritans pontificating about what other people should do.

    The feminazi hags write editorials advising American women to postpone child bearing until 45 or 50 so they can have a wonderful career working 70 hours a week for 40 hours pay. And then pay for college when they are pushing 70. Idiots.

    Look up the feminazi Hanna Rosen who writes for The Atlantic advising American women to postpone childbearing till 45 or 50. Total ignorance of human reproduction. Total ignorance of child raising

    Just don’t read American magazines and newspapers. Every word is either a lie or the rantings of pompous ignorant puritans preaching about things of which they know nothing. Who is that feminazi witch to tell millions of Chinese women what to do?

    What makes her think Chinese women will follow her advice, especially as her article is so confused.

  196. @Alden

    Until the 90s, Asians voted solidly republican.

    In 1992, when national exit polls started counting Asian Americans separately, they showed a group that was mostly Republican. That year, Asian Americans supported George H.W. Bush over Bill Clinton by a margin of 55 percent to 31 percent and were twice as likely to describe themselves as conservative than as liberal.

    The shift is due to the general liberal success with college students in the American system, and to some extent, the general association with liberals with both IQ and new technology companies.

    The practice of creating walled suburbs while preaching diversity is exceptionally white.One could even consider it evidence of successful assimilation. To liberal white values, at any rate.

    • Replies: @Alden
  197. Alden says:
    @Duke of Qin

    Might be helpful to us ignorant foreigners if you’d do timelines in your comments about Chinese history. Are you referring to when the Mongol Khans ruled China 1200 to 1600 ?????

    Which civil war??? China has had a lot of them, I always enjoy your posts.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @woo
  198. denk says:

    Derbyshire,

    ‘Chinese are cry babies, they feel hurt whenever we feted the cuddly HMDL ‘

    wHY dont fukus try inviting some Nagas./Kashmiris to WH and tell their stories to the world, if the Indians dare to protest, ask them to ….
    mind their own fucking business’ !

    I wouldnt be surprised the murkkan embassy get burned down by an angry mob within a day.

    Yet Thats exactly what fukus told China, about HMDL’s WH love fest.
    Mind your own fucking business’

    Those Chinese are such ‘cry babies’ !

    hehehhehe

    And you aint seen nuthin yet////

    ‘Chinese should get the fuck outta Tibet…’ !!

    jesus christ almighty !

    Coming from the most rapacious land grabbers in human history, this must be the ultimate in anglo hubris !

    But India can keep its part of Tibet of course, AFSPA and all, it’s gifted by the anglos themselves, so its AOK !

    hehehehehh

  199. @Daniel Chieh

    Sorry, didn’t mention the Song, which yes, all together does add to quite a lot of centuries. But part of it could be noted that Europe experienced a pretty hard fall after the Roman empire – even longevity dropped by a decade IIRC. But there does seems to be something that Europe maintained that Faustian spirit while the same spark for expansive inqusition/adventure did not really survive the An Lushan rebellion in China.

    The “siege mentality” has been there for a long time. Justified in some ways? Probably, so much of history is learning how to deal with being attacked from north, east and south; building up community walls, then city walls, then country walls… *

    But I don’t think its overall positive.

    * Some of the Opium War English wrote to their surprise, that marketplaces in China had walls. That’s some dedication to walling up.

    • Replies: @Snowman
  200. denk says:
    @DB Cooper

    FUKUSI[ndia] and human rights are oxymoron.

    To them its just a god damned game.

    When Blair goes to Delhi to talk business,

    nobody bludgeon him to raise the issue of the NE or Kashmir,
    None, nada, zero, zilch

    When Cameron visit Jakarta,

    nobody goads him to mention the West Papuans,Acehnese, oppressed Chinese minorities,,,,,,….

    When May pay homage to Washington,

    no hue and cry for her to ‘stand up to the evil empire’

    But When any Brit politico goes to Beijing ,

    The guardian, everybody…have a field day,

    ‘Why no mention of Tibet, Liu Xiao Bo,….she’s kowtowing to the Chinese’ !

    …….
    Its always China. !

    See,
    UK = cradle of human rights, [ahem]
    US = world’s oldest democracy [cough cough]
    INHDIA = world’s largest democracy [;-)]

    But this triumvirate of virtuousness seem to hold the evil Chinese to a higher standard than themselves, !

    Talk about having their cake and eat it too ,

    heehhehe

  201. Jason Liu says:
    @Alden

    I’m talking about China and the global culture wars, not Chinese Americans.

    But to address your point: Of course they do. Minorities lean left everywhere. You’re describing the symptom, I’m describing the root cause, which is liberal democracy. Meaning that if you wanted a white country without foreigners taking advantage it, you’d have to end the idea of liberal democracy itself. China and Russia and quite a few others can help you with that.

    There’s also a silver lining in America’s current situation. As you say, minorities are usually more conservative and motivated by self-interest, not actual belief in egalitarian bullshit. This means a minority takeover of key positions in the Democratic party would make America a more tribal, but less ideologically liberal place. That’s a win for the international right. In some sense, it might even be a win for white Americans.

  202. @The Master Wang

    Dammit, General Sun Tzu, whose side are you on? You had to alert them not to blab about their plans on Unz.com right in front of all us American lurkers! Nice goin’, chief – don’t look for any more Renmenbi direct deposits into your Construction Bank account.

    (Well, back to the drawing board – I’m sure the Deep State’ll thinka sumthin’.)

    • Replies: @The Master Wang
  203. Alden says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    I read Jewish publications all the time They are always writing about how much Jewish and Chinese are similar. They praise Chinese woman Jewish man marriages as much as they praised Jewish communist woman black man marriages 60 years ago. They constantly write about the Persian Jewish trader colony in China that existed for centuries

    The Jews are looking to make their next historic jump and China is their target.
    It will be interesting. If the Jews manage to conquer China as they conquered Russia and America it will be proof that the God of Israel does exist and that Jews are his chosen.

    Senator Feinstein’s husband, Richard Blum was investing in the PRC as early as 1973. He’s made billions from those investments.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    , @JJ
    , @Josecanyouc
  204. denk says:
    @wayfarer

    kid,

    We are talking about India merely cuz its a perfect foil to highlight anglo hypocrisy./perfidy,
    this is not a mud slinging fest,
    So I dont see whats your point ?

    But if you’r interested,

    Here’r some ref, defintely more authoritative than youtube videos, [sic]
    if you see what I mean,
    hhhhhhh

    https://theconversation.com/delhi-should-follow-beijings-example-in-tackling-air-pollution-89378

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/asia/india/articles/delhi-most-polluted-city-in-the-world/

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @wayfarer
  205. @Alden

    He’s talking about the An Lushan rebellion, far before Mongolia – this was when China was conquering the world. He intentionally misses that in many ways, it was also the most glorious age of Chinese history and arguably the closest that Eastern civilization could have gained a worldwide footing as Western civilization has.

    The Chinese do not really fight offensive wars that well – like the Romans, the Chinese are really don’t have a horse-riding tradition. The addition of Turkic values and horsemen made for incredibly powerful armies, and a generally more “masculine” and “heroic”/”barbaric” ethos than what China is typically known for.

    But it led to this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion

    But yes, note the cosmopolitan Tang dynasty and the vast numbers of portrayals of non-Chinese people in China, as well as the diversity ideology which was present in China at the time. And the backstab of the Turkic people had pretty terrible consequences on the Chinese psyche from that point on.

  206. Alden says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    That’s true. Even the younger generation of Vietnamese are Democrats now. But the San Francisco Chinese vote for Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the lunatics. That elected sheriff who proudly let the killer of Kate Steinle out of city jail despite an ICE hold is Asian . Mayor Ed Lee and the Chinese elected supervisors are also lunatic liberals

    My point is that San Francisco is the only major city that has enough Chinese American citizens eligible to vote that could really reverse the lunacy of the city if they didn’t keep electing the likes of Nancy Pelosi, gay activists and the Asian sheriff who proudly let the killer of Kate Steinle out of city jail.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  207. @The Master Wang

    Yes, the enduring ages from this point on will surely be defined by fierce keyboard warriors.

    Unfortunately, I think some people truly believe this.

    • LOL: AaronB, Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @The Master Wang
  208. @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t have any illusion or foolish emotional need to feel validated by racial aliens. I’m doing my bit to help my own kind by telling them about the reality. What I want to know is if we will face a renewed and extremely hostile West, a new Eurabian Caliphate, or something even worse. A galactic reich, a global caliphate, or Tikkun Olam are all shitty to me.

  209. AaronB says:
    @Corvinus

    Not skepticism corvinus but a profound optimism.

    The two philosophical poles are – the world is composed of substance or it is a “process” without substance.

    Wars are fought because we think the world is composed of “things” that we must posses. That’s the Western view and it’s why the history of the West is extraordinarily violent.

    The old Chinese view is that the world is process devoid of substance, so what is there to posses? It led to a much more peaceful history.

    In the West, the idea that the world is devoid of substance has been seen as nihilism, but it can just as easily be seen as a joyful liberation from the fetters of “being” and an embrace of flux, as it has been on the old East.

    I look at the world and see its evil and wish to “eradicate” it, as if it were a “thing”. I am trying to reach a permanent unchanging state, a utopia – utopian thinking is behind all the violence of the West. A state of eternal substance.

    A world of “things” (eternal substances), is a terribly important world where everything “matters” terribly much. We must fight over such a world with all our might, we must fight against all those who disagree with us, and all our efforts must be directed to control the “things” that compose the world according to our vision of the “good”.

    By trying to reach a world of unchanging “good” I join the great fight over the world and become part of the unending conflict.

    When I say that our problems are intractable and humans destined for extinction I do not mean that any “thing” will go out of existence – since I see humans as process and not substance, I merely mean that a particular process will blend into other processes. Nothing will have been lost, because no “thing” existed in the first place.

    The world is endless flux.

    The “fluidity” of Chinese thinking comes from the old Chinese idea that the world isn’t composed of eternal substances so there is no attempt to reach a final utopian state, so there is less fanaticism and bloodshed.

    It is also the fluidity of Jewish thinking, which I know well. You will often find in Jewish culture contradictory and multiple ideas expressed on the same topic with no attempt to reconcile them. Truth is “situatonal” and provisional and there is no concept of an underlying “thing”.

    This trains the Jewish mind in extraordinary flexibility and dexterity because it does not make a fetish of the “truth, and it gives them a peculiar freedom whites do not posses and even allows them to run rings around more intelligent whites.

    Whites are forever defending some eternal “thing” which commits them to certain strategies they cannot deviate from.

    Making a fetish of the “truth” goes hand in hand with seeing the world as ultimately composed of eternal substances, a view the West got from Plato.

    When I say humans are incurably evil and not “good” I mean there is no ultimate unchanging state humans are destined for.

    Is this nihilism? Nihilism is the belief that we must be resued from eternal flux and find a permanent unchanging home, a Platonic idea.

    Nihilism only makes sense in a Western context – acceptance of flux as final renders the word meaningless.

    Both Jews and Asians do not take the world seriously because they do not look for permanence within it.

    The curious melancholy and oppressive sense of “unfreedom” that has characterized the West for many centuries now comes from seeking an underlying “thing” they can hold onto in what is a process of flux. It is utopian thinking.

    We must liberate ourselves from “morality” if we are to live well just as we must liberate ourselves from “evil”.

    The problem with modern Jewish and Asian culture is that it is now in a state of half-liberation, and has come to take some things very seriously.

    The old Chinese culture was conducive to human well being but proved fragile. How impressive would Chinese culture seem to us if it had weathered the storm of its encounter with the West with a gigantic shrug, a temporary and provisional and flexible adaptation that vanished the moment the threat receded.

    However, signs are that China has been transformed by the West.

    But the West is not an eternal unchanging substance but merely a process that will eventually play itself out, and the current China is also just a process that must ultimately play itself out.

    And all of humanity with its wars and strife is just a process that will play itself out and merge into the great process of the world which will give rise to new and strange processes beyond humanity. But nothing will have been lost, and humans will in some sense still be around, because they never existed (as eternal substances) in the first place.

    Humans are just an episode in a story of endless flux and not the site of any special value.

    This vision of the world has no political value because it can never be accepted permanently by humanity – it itself is liable to flux. It is not a utopian project that if we could just learn to think this way humanity would be saved and we can usher in the millenium. The Chinese had it, then lost it.

    It is merely one possibility that will constantly appear and disappear as the flux goes it’s way. At best it can provide personal liberation to individuals for a time.

    Buddhism will not save humanity because a process is in no need of saving. Individuals can find joyful liberation for a time by submitting to the flux and giving up their quest for a permanent utopian home.

    I do not exorct you corvinus to understand a single word I have written or give anything remotely resembling an intelligent reply.

    But your response is just another episode in a timeless flux and nothing hinges on it.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Anon
    , @Corvinus
  210. @denk

    He’s not wrong, though. India also has worse civic ethic in terms of pollution. In that sense that Chinese culture can be low-trust and have issues with commons with rural migrants spitting on the floor and defecating behind trash bins, India is worse because even a significant population of presumably educated city dwellers defecate under tunnels or deposit trash in piles on the ground.

    The problems are both on an individual as well as a government level. The government needs to encourage better behavior and the individuals also need to see why personal behavior can be improved.

    What China was fortunate in, was that the government found some virtues that were generally available to leverage on: so while cleanliness itself was not a highly valued trait, collectively volunteering to do something is – thus why volunteer sanitation groups exist and do a pretty good job, on top of paid workers. India has just managed to have the worst of both individualism and collectivism. Its strange.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Daniel Chieh
    , @denk
  211. @Alden

    In some ways they do – in Australia, they voted against gay marriage(unsuccessfully) and they’ve helped block some of Canadian liberal lunacy in Vancouver. Part of it selectional: as a general, rule, Chinese are not interested in politics. The ones that will be in politics are generally specific outreach candidates found by Democrats.

  212. @AaronB

    It is also the fluidity of Jewish thinking, which I know well. You will often find in Jewish culture contradictory and multiple ideas expressed on the same topic with no attempt to reconcile them. Truth is “situatonal” and provisional and there is no concept of an underlying “thing”.

    You sure it isn’t because Jewish clergy just really enjoyed endless legalistic debates with each other like what we’re doing now? Life can get pretty boring in the Jewish quarters, I’m sure.

    https://www.thejc.com/judaism/features/why-doctors-can-heal-on-shabbat-1.65237

    None of us would think twice about a Jewish doctor rushing off to hospital to perform an emergency operation on a Saturday morning rather than going to shul. We take it for granted that pikuach nefesh, saving life, takes precedence over the prohibitions against work on Shabbat.

    But this is not something explicitly permitted in the Torah. The Hebrew Bible contains no incidents of healing on Shabbat. The sages who set about codifying Jewish law classified healing as “work” — it involves the mixing of medicines, travelling to the patient, carrying equipment and other tasks generally forbidden on the Sabbath day.

    While there is little doubt that the Jewish people always healed and saved life on Shabbat, the ruling which allowed it came only after nearly three centuries of debate. Shabbat prohibitions were taken very seriously in Maccabean times. When one thousand strictly observant Jews, including women and children, were attacked by the Macedonians on the Sabbath, the Jews refused to fight in accordance with Sabbath law and, not surprisingly, all of them were killed.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  213. wayfarer says:
    @denk

    Just pointing out that “prosperity” these days, often comes at an environmental cost.

    Grabbed an informative video produced by an Indian, and next thing I know someone’s fragile feelings are fractured, or what?

    I know the human ego is soft, but seriously, not that soft.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_polluted_cities_by_particulate_matter_concentration

    • Replies: @denk
  214. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    India has just managed to have the worst of both individualism and collectivism. Its strange.

    I think a lot of the dysfunctionality of India has to do with an age old attitude of “not caring” abut the physical world. Indians are famously “metaphysical”, while Chinese (and Germanics) are famously practical.

    I think we’re falling into the trap of thinking other cultures share our values but just can’t “do it as well as us”.

    It may seem strange to us, but having a clean and functional environment may not be a universal human priority, although it may be a universal human value.

    In a modern industrial environment, the Indian chaos may be extreme, but I think it may have approximated a vivid and colorful paradise in a pre-industrial era.

    Kipling said he wanted to live in Bombay more than any other place in the world it fascinated him so much – I can’t imagine anyone saying that about any Indian city today.

    When I’m in India there is so much color and beauty amid the chaos snd grime that I often imagine how amazing it must have been before industrialism.

    Still, though, it would be good if Indians learned to compromise a bit more with the modern world and show some flexibility in adapting to its conditions. The grime and cheating really dues get to you after a while.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Malla
    , @myself
  215. @Daniel Chieh

    There’s plenty of examples of Indian issues, so no need for me to post it. The converse of Chinese insanity when trying to “fix things”, though:

    This wasteful investment for aesthetically pleasing toilets was not necessary.

  216. Eagle Eye says:
    @Ron Unz

    Our gentle host Mr. Unz is too modest to mention his own highly pertinent articles on genetic factors in China’s development:

    How Social Darwinism Made Modern China

    and

    China: Chinese Eugenics?

  217. denk says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    On industrialisation scale.,

    If China = 100
    India = 30 ?

    Yet India already outperform China in pollution !

    What happens if Modi’s Made In India dream succeeds and all those toxic industries that the west outsource to China relocate to India ?

    Be careful what you wish for, Modi old chap !

    heheheh

  218. @Daniel Chieh

    Their narrative against China is changing from “the international community must guard against China’s dictatorial government” to “the civilized world must stop the Chinese” – this is a sign they are preparing for war. To mock vigilance against aliens is to commit a crime against your own kind.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  219. @The Master Wang

    Did someone die and make John Derb. King of the West?

    If so, then the coronation festivities suck.

  220. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @jim jones

    The paleface fellow has spread much mischief around the world.

    What have others of his kind done about the resulting slaughter?

    Something along the lines of “…will just walk around you”?

  221. @Alden

    Alden, you need to worry about the Roman Catholic Church. China just told the Vatican that they will appoint bishops to the “RCC” in China. This means China has taken over the Chinese “RCC” and their churches are no longer a part of the Roman RCC. This is a very good thing. Blacks/Asians are destroying the Caucasian/European RCC. This schism is very good. In Nigeria, cuck pope Frannie had to remove a bishop because he didn’t belong to the right tribe of his diocese. Excellent, this means the Nigerian “RCC” is now in schism. And this means we should only have Caucasian/European priests in the West. China will take care of the Jews. We need to take care of the black/Asians in the West.

  222. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JJ

    The double standard and hypocrisy of some chinese is unbelievable, and you are making your people look bad. If China shouldn’t leave Tibet and Xinjjiang, then the British should recolonize India at a minimum.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @JJ
    , @TT
  223. China has many things wrong with it because of the Chinese people. http://takimag.com/article/the_future_of_chinese_is_english_mark_derian#axzz55sMcYGyn

    The Chinese are less intelligent than the Japanese. They will never be as successful as the Japanese.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @DB Cooper
    , @Malla
  224. @Anonymous

    This is a broken parallel. The people of Tibet and Xinjiang are full citizens who can join the government, have representation in the National People’s Congress, get affirmative action benefitting them and essentially were encouraged to increase their percentage of the population given that the one-child policy did not apply to them.

    They are not oppressed natives. Heck, in many ways, they are not even natives of the land.

  225. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Duke of Qin

    the wild eyed Mohammedan with his unrelenting faith

    Ha! For slit-eyed godless-savages, they with some real batshit crazy spiritualities, with no real understanding of their cursed existence here, except the unrelenting pursuit of money… the idea of a strong “unrelenting faith” in an unseen infinite Creator should be quite incomprehensible.

    If our “unrelenting” conviction in His singular existence seems batshit crazy to the likes of you, then can you convince yourself that you too were never created, and simply do not exist? Given the various oriental delusions, I am sure that will not be too hard.

    So much for the putative “high IQ” east asian minds. Hint: if one thinks burning fake currency has any spiritual value, then mush is what said east asian “high IQ” idiot has up there.

  226. @AaronB

    I think a lot of the dysfunctionality of India has to do with an age old attitude of “not caring” abut the physical world. Indians are famously “metaphysical”, while Chinese (and Germanics) are famously practical.

    Possibly, but there is also a more pedestrian explanation that historically, India relied on a caste to do the cleaning. Although the complexities elude me, my understanding is that modernity has emancipated those individuals but has not provided sufficient solutions to replace the labor they once did.

  227. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Lol yes, they certainly enjoyed endless legalistic debates, but that implies there is no “final” position to be reached – it’s a joy in process.

    There is also a famous passage where the rabbis are wrangling over some issue and God himself decrees who is right, which the rabbis reject, preferring the process of wrangling.

    When I pointed out to my Jewish friends what I don’t like about Judaism, they insisted any number of diametrically opposing opinions could be found. They even suggested I become a great rabbi myself and issue my own interpretations and opinions.

    The emphasis is on fluidity and process.

    I may seem to be defending Judaism here, but I’m not – I’m merely pointing ways in which Judaism approximates Keats “negative capability” – and how that gives them a freedom and flexibility that is both an advantage over those who seek permanence and stability and a kind of spiritual freedom.

    In the end, there is one permanent “thing” in the Jewish world that is worshipped – the Jewish ethnicity itself. And so the measure of freedom gained is illusory, and much suffering is reintroduced.

    But that doesn’t mean whites can’t learn a lesson here.

    True freedom from the search for “thinghood” is not a feature of Jewish culture, but of the grand old Chinese culture. I love paradox, Daniel, perhaps because binary thinking is really a search for stability and permanence – and paradoxically, may not the unethical fluidity of contemporary Chinese business practice be an echo of the metaphysical idea of process over substance?

    If so, then this corruption may contain in embryo a spiritual rebirth. Paradoxical, but perhaps.

  228. AaronB says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    To be clear, I favor stability and “settledness” – tradition, stable careers, etc – in the social realm because they permit spiritual freedom.

    What I wonder, though, if the “fluidity” of Asian and Jewish behavior today reflects a a translation into the material realm of metaphysical ideas, just as materialism – the faith of white people – is a translation into the material realm of the Platonic idea of unchanging substances.

    If so, then it would seem cultures don’t truly change their metaphysics – they merely translate them into different realms. Which would mean China is far less transformed than we think, and we are seeing Buddhism and Taoism made physical, so to speak.

  229. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    Wars are fought because we think the world is composed of “things” that we must posses. That’s the Western view and it’s why the history of the West is extraordinarily violent.

    The old Chinese view is that the world is process devoid of substance, so what is there to posses? It led to a much more peaceful history.

    As the old American saying goes, “you may go tell that to the Marines, sir, but the Midshipmen will never believe it.”

    • Replies: @AaronB
  230. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    It’s not necessary for the midshipmen or the marines to believe it. As I said, it’s not a political programme or a scheme of salvation for mankind.

    It is merely a view that has reccurred throughout history, and will again – it is not a view humanity is “evolving” toward or the ultimate social principle that will end war. It is always available to the individual who sees history as having no goal and who finds pleasure in the moment.

    • Replies: @Anon
  231. Bill says:
    @Anonym

    The “tsunami” video is funny. Everyone in the video is talking about the tide. Nobody in the video is talking about harbors.

    Tsunami is definitely a better name than tidal wave. Definitely. Glad our betters fixed that for us.

    • Replies: @Anonym
  232. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @attilathehen

    they don’t have to be more intelligent than the japanese. They just have to be more intelligent than you.

    • Replies: @Anon
  233. Anon • Disclaimer says:

    Follow the money and sponsors behind the 1965 Immigration Act and you will have your answer. We were lied to by traitors who were/are the take, they told the public that there would be no demographic change, it is the frog in the frying pan, raise the temperature little by little. Hmmmm, only in formerly white, European countries is this happening, not Japan. So weird, and difficult to figure out, ha, did we win or lose WW2?

  234. Anonymo says:

    “What’s wrong with us?”

    It is a natural consequence of North American culture that deifies greed and encourages everyone to think that they are kings and queens to the exclusion of others. No amount of white exceptionalism and racism, so rampant on the comments sections here, can cure the loss of whiteness in North America unless the underlying cause above is rectified…

    • Replies: @Malla
  235. WhiteWolf says:
    @Hker

    You’ll be lucky to find any Whites in Australia in 50-100 years going by the demographics changes here the last 20 years.

  236. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @AaronB

    It’s not necessary for the midshipmen or the marines to believe it.

    If it wasn’t necessary, from your point of view, for people to believe it, you wouldn’t have said it.

    To allege, as you have done, that levels of violence (state-sponsored or otherwise) in the West have been uniquely elevated in comparison with China or any other culture around the world and across time, is either worryingly naive or merely mendacious, replacing an extraordinarily complicated, ever-changing equation with a simplistic philosophical just-so story. Moreover, you’re undercutting/contradicting your previous assertion that “it’s obvious that Chinese society is in a constant state of low level warfare where aggression gets chanelled into business rather than bloodshed.” The conclusion one might arrive at is that reports of extraordinarily violent Westerners are not only greatly exaggerated but ultimately only the sugarcoating of yet another poison-pill intended to induce self-flagellation.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  237. @Lars Porsena

    Bohemia-Moravia still sounds at least as good as Bosnia-Herzegovina.

    And don’t forget Trinidad and Tobago. And St Pierre and Miquelon. And Rhode Island and Providence Plantations.

    https://www.sporcle.com/games/the_geekery/countries-with-and

  238. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    Not at all. Partly I’m working out these ideas for myself, and partly I’m offering them to anyone who isn’t satisfied with current ideas. But I’m under no illusion that these ideas can ever be popular – at least not for the time being, and not among westerners.

    As for violence and China, it’s a fact. But the Chinese certainly had lots of aggression and competitive energies that went into business rather than warfare.

    If it makes you feel better, the West had a lock down on violence, and the Chinese on trickery and deceit.

    Those are the flaws each system tended to generate – of course, lots of trickery in the West, and lots of violence among the Chinese. Just broadly speaking.

    It’s obvious that my ideas don’t appeal to you, and that’s fine. You gotta figure out things for yourselves. It’s a big wotld, and my ideas are just one way of looking at things.

  239. AaronB says:
    @Anon

    Oh, and there is such a thing as constructive criticism – I was even above saying the west has to develop a tradition of deceit and double think in order to survive in today’s world.

    The fetishism of truth and words in a world that is ultimately mysterious isn’t adaptive.

    I even favor what you’re doing – creating a new myth whereby the west is uniquely altruistic etc.

    Sun Tzu ultimately had moral aims, you know.

    But really, my point isn’t political at all.

  240. denk says:
    @wayfarer

    kid,

    There’r tons of ‘informative [sic] vidoes’ produced by Indians saying,…

    How China has been menacing India,
    when India was the aggressor.

    How China ‘oppressed Tibetans’,
    When Tibetans/Kashmiris in India are gunned down in broad daylight, their women raped to death.

    How China’s pollution sucks,
    when India’s polluted cities hog the top twenties chart ,
    but unlike Beijing, Delhi is doing zilch about it.

    classic
    ROBBER CRYING ROBBERY

    no wonder Indians/anglos keep saying they’ve many ‘shared values’

    hehehhe\\

    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @Malla
  241. Snowman says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I generally agree with you. However, you seem to consider the periods in which Europe “self-destructed into dark age” and “experienced hardfall” to be exceptions. I on the other hand, include them in the 2 or 3 millenias in which China was ahead, just like I don’t consider the periods in which China sank into chaos to be exceptions either.

    I agree with you that during the Tang and Song, China was substantially ahead of Europe. However, I would argue that even during the Yuan and Ming dynasties, China was still significantly ahead of Europe. It was Yuan Dynasty China that Marco Polo was amazed by. During the early Qing Dynasty, it was well documented that China’s GDP still accounted for at least 30% of global GDP at that time. I haven’t found conclusive evidence for the comparison between Han Dynasty and Roman Empire, probably because it’s too many years ago, but if I find something later I will share it with you.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  242. @Snowman

    Well, its notable that unless Europe self-destructs, China never really pulled ahead technologically in a substantial way. For example, one could say that during the Tang, China was using coins and Europe was using a barter economy, but that misses the fact that the Romans had an extensive and beautiful coinage system.

    Same goes for steel – China had the first blast furnace and far more widespread cast iron and steel, but Rome still developed higher quality steel in smaller quantities. After the collapse of Rome, most of that knowledge and craftmanship was gone, not to mention the infrastructure.

    And yet despite wealth, steel tools and chemical fuel, the Chinese still didn’t build stone buildings for the most part. Indeed, in spite of inventing the stirrup, heavy cavalry didn’t really exist in China.

    • Replies: @Snowman
    , @Snowman
    , @Joe Wong
  243. wayfarer says:
    @denk

    If it’s any consolation, you’re not the only person in this world, suffering.

    Most people suffer, sooner or later.

    Some are just more stoic about it, than others.

    source: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

    • Replies: @denk
  244. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @llloyd

    No “truly diabolical government” ever existed in China! Really? Wasn’t the government of the first emperor about as diabolical as is imaginable in a civilised country? It ended pretty quickly when his younger son grabbed the inheritance by murdering his older brother and then creating the circumstances in which the Han dynasty began and lasted several hundred years…..).

  245. turbine says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    I don’t know how some people still don’t know that Crimea held a referendum and 90% voted to RETURN to Russia. As usual, the neocons shot themselves in the foot. By installing a rabidly Russia-hating regime in Ukraine, neocons caused the referendum. It just so happens that the great majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian, so Ukrainian plans to remove Russian as an official language was certifiably stupid. The neocons and others can howl into the wind forever, but Crimea is not going back to Ukraine. The neocons destroyed Ukraine’s economy (50% drop in GDP!) and encouraged violence by neo-Nazis. Crimea is way too good for economically and psychically (pure juvenile hatred) ruined Ukraine.
    Of course, you would not know any of this from the MSM. I have read articles from journalists around the world, who visited Crimea as sceptics, but all agreed that yes, 90% really did choose Russia.
    Deep State/MSM likes keeping us ignorant.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  246. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @jim jones

    That is fascinating because it makes it very difficult to see who was meant to be stirred up by such trolling nonsense.

  247. Malla says:
    @Anonymo

    It is a natural consequence of North American culture that deifies greed and encourages everyone to think that they are kings and queens to the exclusion of others.

    Watching a lot of banker funded commie media? This king and queen belief and deifying greed is far far more common in the darkie third world than amongst Anglos.
    Sez me, a brown man in a brown land.

  248. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    I think a lot of the dysfunctionality of India has to do with an age old attitude of “not caring” abut the physical world. Indians are famously “metaphysical”, while Chinese (and Germanics) are famously practical.

    I think, the famous Indian metaphysics was just an excuse philosophy to act lazy towards the commons by the population and an ideology used by the greedy jewish like elites (I am one of them unfortunately) to keep the lower caste (whose behavior is a combination of gypsies and blacks ) populations enslaved.
    Fat pundits outside temples preachin the futility of the material world & the futility of earthly desires to the sheepie masses and after the sermon, going down to the temple vaults to drool at the huge temple gold/ jewelry stock and later in the day drooling at the naked under-aged lower caste devdasi women temple sex slaves in his private room.
    Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

  249. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    Interesting if you were to elaborate. Still I am prompted to take an interest in how the subcontinent took over a naturally China based tea exporting business. Mind you there are plenty of interesting stories of that kind like merino wool in Australia and rubber outside Brazil. The details of opium production, trading snd use would be interesting but I don’t expect to get round to reading big books on it.

    • Replies: @Malla
  250. @turbine

    Oh, I know.

    Most of Tibet wants to be part of China too – I mean, going back means going to slavery under monks in a brutal theocracy that included at the mildest, beatings and rape. Neutral polls done by NGOs have shown the same. But of course, this doesn’t matter to people looking to make a narrative.

    • Replies: @Malla
  251. DB Cooper says:
    @attilathehen

    “The Chinese are less intelligent than the Japanese. They will never be as successful as the Japanese.”

    Never as successful as the Japanese? Do you know that in the long view of history Japan HAS ALWAYS been a nobody to China? Japan only pull ahead of China when they industrialized in the 19th century and current trend suggest that this period of Japan ahead of China will be an aberration.

    • Replies: @Malla
  252. AaronB says:
    @Malla

    Probably a part of it. Same thing happened among Christians.

    Priesthoods are notorious for attracting greedy frauds.

    But it’s not the whole story.

    • Replies: @Malla
  253. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    Still I am prompted to take an interest in how the subcontinent took over a naturally China based tea exporting business.

    One Word: British Raj.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  254. @Malla

    And much of Rome’s greatness was built by men looking build their own fame by what was effectively large-scale looting and slave raiding – yet they built an empire, laid out huge stretches of construction, and brought about much of what is Europe as we know it through a common language.

    A lot of development and value can be brought about by much less noble desires.

    • Replies: @Malla
  255. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    Oh please, China has far far better farmlands and in a pre industrial era, that is what mattered the most. If you had Japanese people living on the fertile flat lands of China and Chinese people living in volcanic mountainous Japan, the Japanese would have been the center of East Asia.
    Before the Industrial revolution: location, location, location.
    After industrial revolution: people, people, people.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Daniel Chieh
  256. DB Cooper says:
    @Malla

    It has always been the people. Before the industrial revolution : people, people, people. After industrial revolution : people, people, people.

    • Replies: @Malla
  257. denk says:
    @wayfarer

    Have you even noticed that Indian produced video which claim
    ‘China far behind India in pollution control’
    is contradicted by my links and your own wiki citation ?

    hehehhe

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  258. @Lin

    Hua is a Chinese given name, a girl’s name. In English she would be Harmony.

  259. @Malla

    If the Japanese people lived in China, they would have likely become Chinese.

    Ignoring the fact that Japan has almost no indigenous aspects of their culture(Shinto being the major exception), the differences in Japan and China are because due to the mountainous and easily defended nature of the terrain, local fiefdoms were easy to develop and centralized control was difficult. On the other hand, China’s terrain meant that mass and scale mattered far more under central control – note the frequency of employing levies rather than professional soldiers, let alone any military elite.

    • Replies: @Malla
  260. Malla says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    All Empires and civilizations start by some form of looting and slave raiding.

    • Replies: @another fred
  261. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    Probably a part of it.

    A significant part if you ask me. Hinduism is basically Brahmin rule over non-brahmins, the whole religion is structured around this primary principle/objective.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  262. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    Nope. People might have played some part but not as much as land. I mean, if we would have Papua New Guineans in fertile China, we would have not got much civilization there anyways, I agree on that.
    But before the Industrial revolution, land productivity played a much bigger part. After the Industrial revolution, the productivity of people played a bigger part.
    Why do you think all civilizations conveniently started near fertile river valleys (Nile, Euphrates, Indus etc..) with reasonable climates. Land mattered then.
    Anyways unlike Egypt and Iraq, China has good quality people as well as good quality land.

    • Replies: @another fred
  263. Malla says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If the Japanese people lived in China, they would have likely become Chinese.

    What I had meant that if there were no Chinese people in the land of China and only Japanese people. How would they have become Chinese?
    Japanese culture might have borrowed a lot from Chinese culture but is very very distinct. China borrowed a lot from India but so what? Chinese culture is very different from Indian culture and in my opinion aesthetically much more pleasing, though Indian culture is beautiful too.
    Chinese monks repeatedly came to India to find texts on Buddhist and Indian philosophy but no Indian scholar would even imagine going to China to learn philosophy. But this is just tip of iceberg.

    • Replies: @Lin
  264. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    From

    http://takimag.com/article/the_future_of_chinese_is_english_mark_derian#axzz55sMcYGyn

    It’s even why 87,000 Chinese died in an earthquake not ten years ago though it barely moved the needle on our cultural seismograph.

    That might be more to do with the fact that the Chinese are not blackie brownie. Western media cares more if blackie brownie suffer from earthquakes and tornadoes. Like Haiti for example. You have Haiti special songs for the victims there but not for Japanese of Chinese victims of earthquakes. High IQ ‘posh looking’ races like Whites and East Asians do not matter in the libtard world.
    However while the dumb SJW low level leftard gives his or her hard earned money to buy a CD so that the money goes to Haitian victims of natural disasters, the leftard elites on the other hand go and loot Haiti. Take the HildaBeast (Hillary) for example. It also seems George Soros sources Haitian children for nefarious Satanic rituals.
    With that kind of elite attention, the Chinese and Japanese should consider themselves lucky that they do not get much Western Zio banker run libtard media attention.

    • Replies: @myself
    , @attilathehen
  265. llloyd says: • Website
    @John Derbyshire

    They have no memory of it as least from my experience. They made the N Z Government apologise for restrictions on Chinese immigration in the nineteenth century. To say anything about the hypocrisy is hate speech.

    • Replies: @Joe Wong
  266. Malla says:
    @denk

    Ya ya denk I get it, but you see, we non Han barbarian devils understand pictures better than your intelligent words. We devils have child minds unlike more developed Han mind.
    People’s republic of China

    Anglo World
    India

    There! Denk’s message to Unzers in a few pictures. All he has been posting on Unz for years can be summed up in this one post. Anyone can see that Anglos and Indians are pirate dacoit brothers in arms unlike the peaceful, civilized Middle Kingdom PRC, denk is right.

    hehehehe

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
    , @denk
  267. Snowman says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    its notable that unless Europe self-destructs, China never really pulled ahead technologically in a substantial way.

    I’m sorry, this is simply not true.

    Please refer to Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

    Excerpts:

    List of Chinese inventions in addition to the Four Great Inventions (no evidence of being invented before anywhere else in the world):

    Paper currency
    Alcoholic beverage
    Artillery
    Cannon
    Cast coinage
    Biological pest control
    Flamethrower
    Explosives
    Bell
    Deepwater drilling
    Jadeworking
    Multiple rocket launcher
    Nail polish
    Natural gas as fuel
    Petroleum as fuel
    Oil well
    Parachute
    Umbrella
    Wheelchair

    The list goes on and on. There are just too many to name.
    Any single one invention from the above list refutes the claim that China was never ahead of Europe technologically. In fact, China had been ahead of Europe technologically for most of its existence.
    And it cannot be explained by the “self-destruction” of Europe, because the sheer scale and magnitude of the advantage China enjoyed over Europe was simply too great, as exemplified by the list.

    • Replies: @Lin
  268. Malla says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Tibet deserving to be independent or not aside, the fact is, if China would not have taken Tibet, India would have definitely attempted taking Tibet or at least tried to make it into a Bhutan like slave nation. Tibet being part of People’s Republic of China is a 1000 times better than Tibet being part of India (like Arunachal Pradesh/South Tibet) or being a Bhutan like controlled nation.
    I have met many Sikkimese (native Bhutia/Lepcha and even some Hindu Nepalese Sikkimese) who have told me that joining India was a big mistake and if given the choice between India or China, most would have preferred being part of China. Though ideally, most of them wanted their King back and being an independent kingdom.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  269. Ace says:
    @Anonymous

    The Soviet holocaust was indeed terrible but it wasn’t a black mark against Western civilization. The ultra left have despised it root and branch and worshipped power and every form of lunacy. It’s the sick pretensions of the left that have been invalidated.

    And who were and are the left?

  270. Snowman says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    The “self-destruction” of Europe as you mentioned is integral part of European history, just like An Lushan Rebellion, Taiping Rebellion and the Cultural Revolution are integral parts of Chinese history.

    You cannot take the dark parts of European history (such as the self-destruction, dark ages and religious wars) out and say that’s not European history, only the shiny parts are European history, just like you cannot take the dark parts of Chinese history out and say that’s not Chinese history, only the shiny parts are Chinese history.

    Furthermore, there is plenty of “self-destruction” in Chinese history too. The most recent one arguably is the Cultural Revolution and Maoist policies in general. I could follow your logic and exclude these Chinese self-destructions and say Europe and America could never have dominated the world unless China self-destructs. But I wouldn’t say that, because like I said “self-destructions” are integral parts of history and cannot be isolated or excluded.

  271. gT says:

    They say “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize”. Any commentary on China, unless it is 200% positive, always gets met with a barrage of “browbeating”, in an attempt to intimidate with stern and abusive language those naïve enough to upset the Dragon.

    But its just a deception, the Chinese panda bear doesn’t rule over this planet, so criticize China as much as you like people.

  272. Lin says:
    @Malla

    >>Chinese monks repeatedly came to India to find texts on Buddhist and Indian philosophy but no Indian scholar would even imagine going to China to learn philosophy. But this is just tip of iceberg.<<
    Congrat !! Yes, the Chinese monkey god actually is a version of Hanuman.

    Hindu socialist/communists repeatedly came to China to find texts on revolution and Chinese social change but no modern chinese engineers would even imagine going to bharat to buy cell phone parts. Your iceberg has sunk.
    ……………
    As I said before(probably not at this blog), things change fast in the modern world, 3rd worlders should stop taking perceived ancient 'achievement' as mental opioid. Luckily Chinese have less problem in that regard for the simple reason china hasn't been doing badly in the past few decades.

    • Replies: @Malla
  273. wayfarer says:
    @denk

    It certainly may be a case of propaganda pushers and their counterfeit data.

    Bottom line is, humanity has fucked this world up, big time.

    Now it’s our job, to fix it.

    Have a beautiful day.

    • Replies: @another fred
  274. @Malla

    All Empires and civilizations start by some form of looting and slave raiding.

    The slaving part is true, and there is an interesting book by James Scott that discusses this (Against the Grain).

    The only problem is that the number one source of the slave trade was consistently the “barbarian” tribes that surrounded the civilizations. The “barbarians” took their fellow barbarians (or people from other “civilizations”) captive and sold them to the civilized, just as Africans took other Africans captive and sold them to Muslims and, later, Europeans.

    The non-civilized did much more of the grab-and-run looting as civilizations were more into conquest (followed by looting). Conquest being most often beyond their skill set (Rome had rotted internally before the barbarians could conquer it).

    Scott has some interesting talks on Youtube.

    • Replies: @Malla
  275. @wayfarer

    Bottom line is, humanity has fucked this world up, big time.

    As opposed to the peaceful wild animals?

    The only thing exceptional about humans is their success (a product of social abilities). Do you think you could find an animal that would behave differently if it had the necessary skills?

    • Replies: @wayfarer
    , @Malla
    , @wayfarer
  276. @Malla

    Why do you think all civilizations conveniently started near fertile river valleys (Nile, Euphrates, Indus etc..) with reasonable climates. Land mattered then.

    But did the people spring up out of the land or was the best land taken by the people most competent to occupy and exploit it?

    • Replies: @Malla
  277. Lin says:
    @Snowman

    Ancient invention mean nothing if the momentum can’t be maintained. I always consider Euclid’s
    ‘Elements’ the most influential book ever written(every hi-school student on Earth must learn a simplified version of it),yet Greece, though classified as a developed nation,is hardly a science/tech power.
    Unfortunately many 3rd worlders just take those ancient invention as mental opioid.
    Actually there’s an important omission on that list. Chinese Taoist invented the binary number system; so what? digital computer wasn’t a Chinese invention. The Chinese army doesn’t use black gun powder.

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdaEHgptltTlN84YJpIhPh9TmH3uotLzsZtn4Kdoni-iaKjOTY

    • Replies: @Snowman
  278. Malla says:
    @Lin

    Woaw Lin. You got me wrong. All I was sayin was that Japanese culture is very distinct from that of China even if China influenced Japan in the past.

    Hindu socialist/communists repeatedly came to China to find texts on revolution and Chinese social change

    There was no way Indians would ever accept full fledged Communism. Too restrictive for freedom loving Indians. Even Mr. Roy, an Indian communist accepted that and told the Soviets to fund the Nationalists against the British. One of the aims of the Soviet Union (and their banker bosses) was to destroy the British Empire. ironically the Brits supported the Soviets against the Third Reich. It committed suicide.

    As I said before(probably not at this blog), things change fast in the modern world, 3rd worlders should stop taking perceived ancient ‘achievement’ as mental opioid.

    I agree with you on that. Hinduvadis are very prone to this non sense as they suffer from a combination of superiority and inferiority complex feelings w.r.t to White people and even East Asians.
    Even Islam shows these tendencies w.r.t the West and we already have the very good example of Afrocentrism. I personally love many aspects of my Indian culture but I am a bigger fan of the Chinese civilization in terms of arts, architecture, aesthetics, philosophy etc… But when it comes to sense of aesthetics, mannerisms etc…, I am totally much more into Japan.

  279. Malla says:
    @another fred

    best land taken by the people most competent to occupy

    I do not see how it were always the best people who were most competent to occupy. In some cases, yes, like in the case of China, where we had a high IQ cold climate population getting access to prime quality farmlands. In those days ‘competent’ meant who won wars and took over the land. The earliest people who got the good land were lucky and congratulated each other. But from now onward, they would be the target of every barbarian population living on much harsher lands. But barbarian conquerors with time civilized with time, introduced elements of their own culture into the old to create a new mix and got absorbed into the original population. Many of those Barbarians were high IQ too.
    After all, the earliest civilised peoples were themselves barbarians once.

    • Replies: @another fred
  280. wayfarer says:
    @another fred

    One, of many wild animals that would continue to live in harmony, with the earth.

    • Replies: @another fred
  281. Malla says:
    @another fred

    As opposed to the peaceful wild animals?

    The vast masses of humans are not that different from animals. Most run after food (money), status and sex anyways. Humans are a type of animal, it is just that we can express out our animalistic behvaiour in many more ways.

  282. Snowman says:
    @Lin

    Ancient invention mean nothing if the momentum can’t be maintained.

    You can tell that to the ancient people who actually enjoyed and benefitted from these inventions, I can assure you they would tell you that these inventions mean everything to them. Not to mention modern people who still enjoy and benefit from these inventions. They mean everything.

    Pure theoretical ideas on the other hand, can be beneficial, or detrimental, depending on what the theory or idea actually is. Communism for example, is a very bad theory or idea that has caused tens of millions of innocent deaths and immense suffering around the world.

  283. Malla says:
    @another fred

    Thanks for the info. I will have a look at Prof. James Scott’s work. Sound’s interesting
    Conquests by ‘barbarians’ is not uncommon. Celtic conquests of lands in Turkey, Germanic conquest of the Roman Empire (Later the Germanics themselves set up civilised kingdoms something which Belisarius realised in his campaigns against the Ostrogoths), Turkish conquest of Anatolia/Byzantium, Mongol/Manchu conquest of China, Arab conquest of Baghdad, Syria and Persia etc…
    In most of the cases, a northern barbarian group conquers a southern civilised people, you must realise that the northern group would adopt concepts of the civilised group and become civilised very fast. They would also introduce cultural concepts of their own into the cultural mix. They would get access to more women to spread their genes but with time would get absorbed into the more numerous settled agricultural population.
    What is also interesting that Rome, Byzantium, China fell to populations from the North and not the South.

    Anyways this is a brilliant video. Most humans have always been enslaved. ALWAYS. Elites always rule majorities. Humans are not much different from farm animals. All Empires, all kingdoms, all nations are and have always been human farms (and probably always will be). Elites use ideologies (religion, communism, democracy, historical myths, religious mythology etc..) as well as bread and circuses (celebrities, entertainment. heroes, sports etc…) to keep the farm animals busy, distracted and enthusiastic for their own slave farm and life in it.

    Human Farming – Our Enslavement

  284. wayfarer says:
    @another fred

    Of course, this is probably a better example.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetacea

  285. @Lin

    you need to attack obvious stupid points. not just defend. your comment was like justification. that insinuated wrong doing. that is the english language.

    don’t just defend, attack the retarded points. humiliation is in order when people spout non sense. especially for ones who have a microphone in a public capacity.

  286. denk says:
    @Malla

    Wow !

    A pic is worth a thousand words,

    If China = scholar then FUKUSI[ndia] = bandits,

    Scholar vs bandits, the result is predictable,
    Another fukusi regime change going on in Maldives to oust prez Yemenn,
    whose crimes are…..you guess it, getting cozy with Beijing !

    hehehhehe

  287. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    The hypocrisy of the West stinks to high heaven.

    It is not as simple as that. For some reason, the West is scared of India, Just recently Canadian PM Justin Trudeau (a lefty whose dad opened the floodgates) was snubbed by the Indian government because it is believed that there are Sikh separatists in his cabinet. You see when British India was divided in between Hindus and Muslims, the Sikhs wanted out too with their own nation Khalistan. But Hindu dominated freedom fighting Indian National Congress fought it out with the British Indian government and threatened mass action and strikes if Sikhs were given their own land.
    later on Sikhs did fight a separatist war with India in the Punjab state and many Sikhs in Canada supported this movement. Canada has a huge Sikh population.
    Recently because there are separatist Sikhs in Trudeau’s cabinet, he was snubbed by the Indian government. Funny how a lefty who stands for darkie migration got snubbed by a nationalist darkie country. Lefty libtards are jokers.

    Justin Trudeau Snubbed? No, Says Delhi

    Is Trudeau getting snubbed by India’s Prime Minister?

    I had read a book many days ago written by a Royal Canadian Mounted Police officer who in his investigations found India’s RAW (India’s version of CIA/MI6/KGB) being very active in Canada working against the Sikh separatists, even orchestrating false flag crimes which were blamed on the Sikh separatists. The Indian government wanted the populations of the West to have a negative image of Sikh separatists as crazy psycho terrorists. When he reported this to his higher ups, his investigation was suppressed by higher up Canadian authorities! Canada did not want to be on the bad books of India! This is even though India stole radioactive material from a Canadian built civilian nuclear reactor (after promising not to do so) in India for it’s own nuclear weapons tests.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @AaronB
  288. denk says:
    @Malla

    The book Soft Target, written by Canadian journalists Brian McAndrew of the Toronto Star and Zuhair Kashmeri of the Toronto Globe and Mail, shows that India blew up its own airliner in 1985, killing 329 people, apparently in order to blame Sikhs for the atrocity and create a pretext for more violence against them.

    It shows that the Indian Consul General in Toronto pulled his daughter off the flight shortly before it was due to depart. An auto dealer who was a friend of the Consul General also cancelled his reservation at the last minute. Surinder Singh, director of North American Affairs for the External Affairs office in New Delhi, also cancelled his reservation on that flight. The Consul General also called to finger a suspect in the case before the public knew that the bombing had taken place. The book quotes an agent of the Canadian State Investigative Service (CSIS) as saying, “If you really want to clear the incidents quickly. take vans down to the Indian High Commission and the consulates in Toronto and Vancouver, load up everybody and take them down for questioning. We know it and they know it that they are involved.

    http://www.ilaam.net/Intl/IndiaTerrorist.html

    • Replies: @Malla
  289. AaronB says:
    @Malla

    Malla, you’re funny in that you are very realistic about Asians but romanticize the West.

    Shed your illusions, my friend, and accept that mankind is just a nasty animal.

    The West is nice now because it’s exhausted – it’s lost its will you power. As the world teaches the West the wages of niceness, it will become mean again.

    The niceness of the West is a brief window in history.

    If you really wanted to save the West, you would advise it to become more evil – deceitful, treacherous, and violent.

    Of course, that would destroy all the things you like about the West. You couldn’t romanticize it anymore.

    Of course, one cannot he self-consciously evil – the real way to survival, then power and greatness, is to be self-righteously evil.

    Proclaim morality but be evil. Double-think – hypocrisy – is necessary for all greatness.

    I was reading about slavery in the South – apparently, whenever slaves rebelled whites were shocked and described rebellious slaves as “evil, ungrateful, crazy”. They simply could not imagine that slavery was causing rebellions. They were good people!

    Like today, when school shootings are described as just “crazy”. We can’t imagine that something about the cruelty of American culture is responsible.

    What’s worse, slaves mostly sided with their masters against their fellow slave rebels and sold them out. That’s the human animal.

    This is just the way of the human world. Human affairs will always be like this.

    If you want to be a part of the human world, you have to accept all this and play by the rules of the human animal.

    It’s just stupid to think you can be part of the human world and not play by its rules – that kind of romantic stupidity gets ruthlessly crushed by reality, as the West is now learning.

    All this whining about the Jews – Jews are just more evil than whites now, which makes them top dog. If whites want to be top dog, they need you become as evil as Jews.

    It’s really that simple.

    If you don’t like it, there is a way out – fly to the woods, the deserts, the mountain caves, or the monasteries. Become a mystic, a bohemian, etc.

    But it’s just stupid to think the human world can ever be anything other than it is.

    The oy two honest people in the world are the evil people and the mystics and bohemians. They see reality clearly but make different choices.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Wizard of Oz
  290. myself says:
    @AaronB

    The material cannot be divorced from the philosophical, nor the philosophical from the material. To advance in one requires some degree of advancement in the other.

    The most dedicated ascetic cannot totally stop breathing, drinking, eating, resting, sleeping and excreting – proof of the ultimate reality of material existence.

    The richest, most powerful person cannot stop his inner self from impinging on his waking self and asking questions of meaning, purpose or fulfillment.

    Both can make strident attempts to DENY the existence of one aspect of existence – by focusing on those aspects which they feel is truly important. Yet, there has never yet seemed to be a being with no material existence, nor philosophical aspect.

    To achieve oneness with the Universe is to acknowledge it, and go with its flow, its Way – in one age emphasizing the outer, in another the inner, in another both in equal measure. This is the classic Chinese view of the universe.

    It’s funny how some cultures see the Chinese as TOO superstitious (i.e. the West), others see it as not spiritual ENOUGH (i.e. Islam and Hindus). So many outsiders, naively thinking and believing they understand China.

    To understand China, be mindful of their core philosophy – and that is BALANCE.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  291. myself says:
    @Malla

    Chinese and Indian (and therefore South Asian and East Asian) identities are ancient. In both cases, most definitely older and formed well before the “Zio” identity.

    So the very deeply-rooted national psyches would first have to be destroyed and then Western cultural poison introduced.

    Good luck with trying that on the ever-paranoid and racially-cohesive Han. Might have worked with the vulnerable backward China of say 1918. Not going to work in 2018.

    Which is why the mainstream (Western) media is reduced to forever impotently decrying the backwardness and inhumanity of Chinese society – all without any discernible effect.

    • Replies: @Malla
  292. AaronB says:
    @myself

    The material cannot be divorced from the philosophical, nor the philosophical from the material. To advance in one requires some degree of advancement in the other.

    This is the exact opposite of the truth. To advance in one, requires sacrifice of the other.

    Of course, it’s possible to choose mediocrity in both and achieve balance. I don’t mean this insultingly – avoiding extremes of excellence and choosing balance may be the healthiest way to live.

    But the ideal of balance is the opposite of the ideal of “advancement”, which strives for excellence.

    Balance also is hardly unique to China. The Greeks loved it.

    Unifying opposites is one way of going with the flow, but transcending opposites is another (all is equally illusory, rather than all is equally valid). However, all is equally illusory seems to go along with recognizing all truth as one sided. So in the end, they are the same.

    It isn’t always clear what is balance.

    In a world of treachery and violence, fleeing to the forests and deserts may restore balance.

    In the end, the striving to create balance is itself one-sided and unbalanced – why should not extremes have their say? Perhaps a higher balance is the succession of extremes.

    Humans seem unable to stay balanced for long – the dream of a permanent balancd society is just one more attempt to “freeze” a world that is fundamentally flux. Another utopian project, and a search for a permanent solution to the human precicament.

    Since humans are processes and not “things”, no permanent solution that will “pin down” humanity is possible. Processes will simply merge into other processes.

    “Going with the flow” may mean giving up the dream of balance.

  293. @Malla

    Good points. China is a totalitarian system so they wouldn’t even take aid from the West. I have to give them credit for this. The Haiti nonsense came when Obama was president. Also, Haiti is a “Roman Catholic” country so the USA RCC bishops were big time cheerleaders for raising money for Haiti. They are still raising money for Haiti, but no one is contributing anymore. The Clintons have a lot of connections with Haiti. They went there on their honeymoon. I’ve read that they are fascinated by voodoo. What a surprise. I’ve read about the Satanic rituals in Haiti. They also exist in another “Roman Catholic” country, Cuba. This is because of African voodoo. The RCC refuses to deal with this.

    East Asians are not “posh.” They are a hideous looking bunch, with dark skin. The Japanese don’t need anyone to help them. The Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam and other Asian nations are not like the Japanese at all. Fortunately, people in the West are not helping them as much. Basically, it is the RCC and Zioevangizers that are the ones pushing aid to third world countries. As their churches close, this will come to an end. As I commented earlier, the Chinese government has taken over “RCC” churches in China so the RCC is now in schism with China. This is a very good thing. This will put a stop to RCC nonsense in Asia.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  294. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    The West is nice now because it’s exhausted – it’s lost its will you power.

    Not completely true. At the height of their expansion, the Brits banned slavery, stopped Sati, stopped Thugees etc… in India when it brought them no benefit. Ibn Jabayr wrote in the 1100s during the crusades about how muslim middle Eastern farmers wailed about the injustice in their lands by Muslim lords and praised the justice in lands under Frankish control.

    It’s just stupid to think you can be part of the human world and not play by its rules – that kind of romantic stupidity gets ruthlessly crushed by reality, as the West is now learning.

    True, that is again why I have sympathies with the West. Because I can personally relate to the civilization.

    This is just the way of the human world. Human affairs will always be like this.

    For most of humanity yes. But Whites and maybe East Asians have the potential to build better societies. Blacks and browns are a goner, no hope for us (at least 99% of us). I know this a 1000%, the problem lies in the DNA level. I have seen the world enough to know this.

    Like today, when school shootings are described as just “crazy”. We can’t imagine that something about the cruelty of American culture is responsible.

    What ‘American’ culture is this? Modern Hollywood/Media created culture is no American Culture, it is a fake culture not representative of Conservative America. Why not bring back pre Civil War Southern culture (Gone With the Wind type) and spread it through out North America. Now that was a culture worth respect (and not because of slavery).

    Besides many school shootings are most probably false flag operations with crisis actors. The government wants to get rid of gun, don’t they. They have already done the same in Australia, Great Britain, New Zealand.

    Proclaim morality but be evil. Double-think – hypocrisy – is necessary for all greatness.

    You mean like what most brown folks do. This will lead to the West becoming a shithole.

    If you really wanted to save the West, you would advise it to become more evil – deceitful, treacherous, and violent.

    Yes I would advise that too but to ONLY outsiders, non Whites, those of outside the tribe. But inside a White world civilized honest society can be maintained. Thus what is needed is a difference in behaviour to those in group to those outside the group. The major problem with Western Whites is that they expect everybody to behave like them, to think like them, to reciprocate like them. Remove the universality and much of the problem is solved. In other words, Whites have to actually become racists, real racists, like non White racists (who are the real racists). Whites will be called racists whatever they do, so why not become real racists and enjoy the benefits of being racists.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  295. Malla says:
    @denk

    Yes, correct, that is the book. In India that book is banned and 99.99% of people have no clue about it.

    India blew up its own airliner in 1985, killing 329 people, apparently in order to blame Sikhs for the atrocity and create a pretext for more violence against them.

    Crazy but is possible. A 9-11 like false flag attack. I always say, upper caste Hindus (unfortunately I am one of them) and especially Brahmins are brothers of the Jews. The Brahmins of the ancient Vedic period are no more, got mixed. Those original Brahmans were like Anglos/Germanics, like Aryans. Their blood got mixed up.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  296. bookish1 says:

    “List of Chinese inventions in addition to the Four Great Inventions (no evidence of being invented before anywhere else in the world):

    Paper currency
    Alcoholic beverage
    Artillery
    Cannon
    Cast coinage
    Biological pest control
    Flamethrower
    Explosives
    Bell
    Deepwater drilling
    Jadeworking
    Multiple rocket launcher
    Nail polish
    Natural gas as fuel
    Petroleum as fuel
    Oil well
    Parachute
    Umbrella
    Wheelchair

    The list goes on and on. There are just too many to name.”

    do you know the race of the people that invented those things? There were Aryans in China for many centuries in past history. Were all those things including the big 4 the inventiveness of the people who are the ancestors of the people who invented the rockets that put a man on the moon? The orientals are great copiers. It wouldn’t surprise me if everything that you listed was invented by Aryans and I say that with no apologies for being racist if that is what you want to describe my views.

    • Troll: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @myself
  297. JJ says:
    @Alden

    I don’t think Jews could penetrate the Chinese society easily. After all, Jews look rather different from the chinese and would find it impossible to manipulate a highly cultural monoethnic population in the billion, the examples of which are Mongols, Manchus or kaifeng Jews that had eventually been absorbed by the chinese.

    No doubt Jews are smart, resilient and entrepreneurial people, but besides their tribalism, i think their disaportionate success today in global business, academics, politics is largely due to the rise and dominance of white powers where their host are. However, chinese are not white and don’t buy the monotheist Judeo-Christian religion. Interestingly, today the small number of overseas chinese seem to gradually outperform the Jews in many fields even in western societies.

    • Replies: @myself
    , @Malla
  298. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    attilathehen, What do you think of the Orthodox Church? Like the one in Russia. They seem less corrupted than Catholics and most Protestant churches by commie/Zio ideology.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  299. joe webb says:

    It is all oriental despotism. genetic. end of story. and the whole range of Other races are in the same genetic camp. Semites too. jew or arab.

  300. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    AaronB, What if you have an idealist view of the East of the past. Of spiritual India. India was always materialist. All that spiritual non sense was just a cover. The elites were super rich swimming in gold and diamonds while the masses were poor and miserable. I have read every book written by travelers of the past, I could get my hands on. Arabs, Russians, Frenchmen, Mark Twain etc… The middle East was always materialist too, rich elites and poor and miserable masses.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  301. Malla says:
    @myself

    Chinese and Indian (and therefore South Asian and East Asian) identities are ancient. In both cases, most definitely older and formed well before the “Zio” identity.

    In the Rig Veda, the oldest book in India and perhaps one of the oldest books in the World describe a people known as Pani. The description of the Pani resembles Jews. They were a mercantile people who traveled in caravans with goods. The Aryan writers of the Rig Veda lambast them for being greedy, cheating, untrustworthy pigs. Many believe that the Pani were Phoenicians, people who traded the world in ships.
    Remember that the Indus valley civilization (Mehlua) of India had a lot of trade links with the Babylonians/Sumerians. Strangely many elements of the Indus valley Civilization have strange similarities with the Celts of Europe (Goddess Danu of the Indus valley Civilization and Goddess Dan of the Celts etc…).

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  302. JJ says:
    @Anonymous

    You think Britain gave up India out of altruism or social justice? They had to because they became a bankrupted and impotent sunset power after 2 wars. The British elites understand their place clearly that’s why Hong Kong was returned to China although the Hong Kong island was permanently ceded to the UK by Qing China.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Anon
  303. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    East Asians are not “posh.”

    I meant only North East Asians as posh. JKCs – Japanese, Koreans and Chinese (and a few others).

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  304. @wayfarer

    An interesting fact about doves is that if you put two males in a cage and leave them there, only one will survive. They are not social animals and have no brain level inhibitions to aggression. Analogously there is a species of crane (I forget exactly which, maybe sandhill) whose chicks have a red spot of feathers on their head. Normally the mother crane will nurture the chick as one would expect, but if you cover the red spot with dye the same mother will peck to death the same chick in the same nest.

    I doubt there is an animal on earth that will not reproduce itself to a population collapse if the normal natural restraints on its population are removed.

    We are just overly successful. Nature bats last.

    • Replies: @wayfarer
  305. renfro says:

    Fuck the Chinese….they torture and eat man’s best friend….I’d nuke them to hell for this alone.

    Yulin Dog Meat Festival 2016: 10,000 dogs to be killed and eaten at …

    http://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Asia

    Jun 21, 2016 – People for the Ethical Treatmenf of Animals (PETA) Director Mimi Bekhechi says: “The Yulin dog-meat festival is condemned internationally and by many people in China itself these days because, for most of us, the idea of killing, cooking and eating dogs – animals we know and love – is revolting

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Lin
    , @TT
  306. @bookish1

    The Chinese also had invented writing as some previous date, and therefore, were capable of keeping records.

    The very earliest possible reference to gunpowder appeared in 142 AD during the Eastern Han dynasty, when the alchemist Wei Boyang wrote about a substance with the properties of gunpowder, and described a mixture of three powders that would “fly and dance” violently in his Cantong qi, otherwise known as the Book of the Kinship of Three, a Taoist text on the subject of alchemy

    A better criticism is that unlike the Greeks, the Chinese never actually developed much of a system of deductive reasoning; most philosophy was based on holistic, inductive reasoning. As Thornsten Pattberg notes, this is less useful for advancement of technology in that it doesn’t uncover any underlying laws, but still works to some extent, just much slower.

    Centralization was also toxic to this: the Hundred Schools of Thought(including Logicism, which began to practice an version of deductive reason) was pretty much centralized just to Buddhism, Confucianism and Legalism. Taoism, which was very mystic, survived as well as a kind of cult. But many other schools of thought were reduced, and sometimes even their canons actively eradicated because of Qin thought that all rival knowledge had to be destroyed, utterly.

  307. Malla says:
    @JJ

    There were secret societies working within Britain itself who were working to destroy the British Empire from within. Societies like the Round Table Group, Chatham House (the Royal Institute of International Affairs) and the League of Nations Union, the Theosophists etc… Edwin Samuel Montagu, the Jewish Secretary of State of India in the early 1920s wrote in the Montagu Clemsford Report that 90% of the Indian population were contented with the British Empire but the British government itself wouldintroduce and give rise to Indian nationalism!!! There were elements within the British establishment (globalist elites) who wanted to destroy the British Empire. Indeed one British MP who opposed appointing Montagu as Secretary of State of India said that Montagu ‘wanted to replace British Raj with Jewish Raj’. That says it all.
    The whole Indian Independence struggle was like a kabuki play, a stage act.
    The Chatham House was/is to the British Empire, what CFR is to the USA. They clandestinely supported communism and they played a big part in studies in mind control programming via the media and education. They eventually merged with the creepy Frankfurt School (kicked out of Germany by the National Socialists) guys. They played a big part in inventing modern music, modern culture, counter culture etc…. in other words tools used to destroy the traditional West.

  308. Joe Wong says:

    North America does not belong to the White and other colored aliens, it belongs to the people of the First Nations of the North America, they do not want your culture, they did not invite you to come, and they want you to leave. Here is the voice they want you to listen,

    https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/red-cry/

    For over seventy years the US has dominated Asia, ravaging the continent with two major wars in Korea and Indo-China with millions of casualties, and multiple counter-insurgency interventions in Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines, Timor, Myanmar, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The strategic goal has been to expand its military and political power, exploit the economies and resources and encircle China.

    Before WWII, the American is just one of the Western imperialists ravaged and wreaked havoc of Asia with barbaric wars, illicit drugs like Opium, slavery, stealing, robbing, looting, plundering, murdering, torturing, exploiting, polluting, culture genocide, ‘pious’ fanaticism, unmatchable greed and extreme brutality. In fact it is hard to tell the difference between the American and the unrepentant war criminal Japanese who is more lethal and barbaric to Asians until the Pearl Harbour incident.

    USA is 10,000 miles away on the other side of the Pacific. USA is not an Asian nation, and American is an alien to Asian, American became rich and powerful through imperialism, colonialism, selling opium, religious indoctrination of the conquered, ethnic cleansing, genocide, slavery, racial discrimination, regime change, weapons trade, shock and awe, skillful propaganda, etc.

    American is a toxin and a plague to Asian, They have done enough damage to Asian already, they are not wanted, not invited and not loved in Asia, go home Yankee.

    • Replies: @myself
    , @Anonymous
  309. @Malla

    “In those days ‘competent’ meant who won wars and took over the land.”

    Certainly wars mattered, but the evidence is that there were other things, like lactase persistence or resistance to disease, and there were quite a few population replacements in history.

    I think you would enjoy Professor Scott (there are several lectures on Youtube), but a word of warning: he is politically an anarchist (soi disant), and a bit romantic about barbarians with an axe to grind towards civilization, so take him with a grain of salt. He admits to slaves being the #1 trade item for barbarians somewhat reluctantly.

  310. @Malla

    There’s a good evidence that there was a proto-identity population that contributed language and myths, thus the the close similarity between Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin and the strangely similar names of gods. That and the fact that India was never really isolated from the west: the Greeks knew of India even if only as a throwaway context of a far, far away place, and they became much more familiar after Alexander tried to reach the “end of the world” and ended in India.

    Quite a bit of cultural exchange followed from that.

    Megasthenes was an ancient Greek historian, diplomat and Indian ethnographer and explorer in the Hellenistic period. He described India in his book Indika, which is now lost, but has been partially reconstructed from the writings of the later authors.

    Megasthenes was born in Asia Minor and became an ambassador of Seleucus I Nicator of the Seleucid dynasty to Chandragupta Maurya in Pataliputra, India.[1] However, the exact date of his embassy is uncertain. Scholars such as Kaushik Roy place him in the Maurya court between 302 and 298 BCE, prior to Chandragupta’s voluntary death in 297.[2] Other Greek envoys to the Indian court are known after Megasthenes: Deimachus as ambassador to Bindusara, and Dionysius, as ambassador to Ashoka.[3][4]

    • Replies: @Malla
  311. Rdm says:
    @Jason Liu

    I agree that this sentiment is shared among western educated Chinese people, including Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, etc etc.

    However, your comment would be labeled as “Uncle Tom” by far leftist. Nationalism is good in a sense that as long as it serves Chinese interest to its core. This may explain why CCP assumes its foreign policy as non-interfering and stay neutral to sovereign countries. This also reflects the very core nature of Chinese people, especially from mainland, which in a way appears as clannish, closed, sneaky manners that gives the impression that Chinese only cares for themselves and only interested in looking for opportunities that they could to better themselves.

    Chinese calling White expats as “Laowai” in China is as good as White Americans telling “I love Chinese people”. If there is a angermometer, Blacks will be listed on top, followed by Whites and East Asians will be at the bottom, that is how good and strong Confucius value is ingrained in every generation of Chinese people.

    If “nationalism” is full blown in White Americas, let alone other parts of the globe, Mr. Liu, in all honesty, you won’t be having this conversation in Unz, you’ll be dead as Vincent Chin. You will be called “Chink” every corner of the street in a derogatory term. The last day you embarked upon that voyage to a new world, while far looking at your waving wife standing on the dock will be the last day you will ever see your wife in Imperial China. Every piece of land you think you will make a fortune in the future, will await with Chinese massacre in history: Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Burma, and now you landed in far flung Australia and think you’re free from massacre and found yourself in the part of the Chinese history making in Australia. Your old friend who believed the new world would be far better off with gold rush windfall found himself castrating his golden balls with CEA, miscegenation law and literally turned himself into another eunuch in this new world.

    As a matter of fact, “breakup” of White nationalism was the major driving force that let Chinese descents to achieve in the US. Credits where credit is due, Chinese will never achieve the highest positions in the US without shrewd, yet manipulative Jewish presence. All the higher positions Chinese now held in the US Congress were the offshoot of “Diversity” mantra spread across the country by Jewish media. Remember this is a side-effect rather a targeted achievement.

    The day you wish Nationalism will be reemerged in the US, Jews will be outed first and then be ready for another chink documents coded in a pretentious filibuster.

    As far as everyone’s concerned, no one wants a way of Jewish living or Chinese living.

    Only when we get to the stage where everyone yearns a way of Chinese living, you can then safely write a White paper to call out the nationalism in every country. Until then be careful what you wish for, Mr. Liu.

  312. AaronB says:
    @Malla

    I completely accept that. There is no culture that has managed to sustain a high level of goodness over t time, and even the best times were mostly evil and greedy.

    We complain about modernity, but in conditions that would seem ideal to those of us who dislike modernity, the Buddha arose and said life is basically unsatisfying, and Lao Tzu said the same thing.

    It’s the human condition that is lacking. I am interested only in counter-cultures – and some periods of time in some places are more favorable to that than others , but it’s never a permanent thing and it rotates around the world.

    Abolishing slavery was great, but it was a temporary thing that happened because whites could afford to, and because new economic conditions made it better to do so. Don’t romanticize it – the new economy in America is gradually reintroducing slavery conditions (no joke, read Mark Ames Going Postal), and actual slaves exist now in Britain and no one cares.

    What you think of as “Western” is just a temporary state of affairs that owed itself to very unusual conditions – not least of which is the unmatched power of the West, itself secured through violence and fraud. It isn’t timelessly “Western”, nor can it survive the conditions that have it birth.

    The things I like about India and China are now fast disappearing, it is true, and may reappear for the time being elsewhere, or be driven to the margins.

    I understand the desire to have a utopia somewhere, but I don’t think it can ever characterize entire societies for any lengthy period of time.

    However, I think you have a legitimate point that in some ways now, the West better realizes some of your values than other places. It’s just that this isn’t “the West” – it’s just aanother episode in the story of the world, that is already disappearing, and that can’t survive emerging global conditions.

    I don’t begrudge you your values, but the paradox you are in is that the West cannot survive if it continues to adhere to these values, and is in fact getting rid of them anyways out of simple greed.

    Your values will reemerge at a later date, in unexpected places, as they are eternal, only to vanish again.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @myself
    , @Malla
  313. Joe Wong says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    The White wanted to gloss over their inferiority past before 19th century, they created Eurocentrism and Orientalism thru their evil inquisition mind and culture by portraying Orientals or the Others as everything they were ashamed of themselves used to be, meanwhile portray themselves superior as everything not the Others or the Orientals. This toxic construct and imagination is still the basis of the modern Western culture, mindset, and mentality, this toxin is so deeply embedded in the Westerners mindsets that they even don’t they are bigots, racists, and detrimental to the harmony of humanity and its survival. The Westerners are so intoxicated by the Eurocentrism/Orientalism fabricated by their mentally haunted forebears, they even believe their bombing, killing and waterboarding on the fabricated phantom WMD allegations as humanitarian intervention.

    Denying is the main tool used by the Eurocentrists to portray the Orientals are backward and stagnant, meanwhile “claiming credit where credit is not due” is the common practice to portray the White as superior race. You have inherited Eurocentrism well.

    BTW stones only need to be cut from mountains, while bricks need several industrial processes to change from one form of material to another, if you know the difference between them in terms technology advancement.

    Mongols shot the European heavy cavalry like sitting ducks which caused ‘Yellow Peril’ as a Dionysius sword over the White’s head thanks to your proud European heavy cavalry.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  314. Joe Wong says:
    @John Derbyshire

    Please read comment #315 as Replies to your comment.

  315. Malla says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    There’s a good evidence that there was a proto-identity population that contributed language and myths, thus the the close similarity between Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin and the strangely similar names of gods.

    Yup that is true. And not only Greeks and Romans but also Norse, Slavs, Celts, Baltics, Hittites, Persians etc….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

    https://authenticgathazoroastrianism.org/2016/01/19/odin-odinn-and-mazda-the-supreme-ahura-of-zoroastrianism/

    Odin, Óðinn and Mazda, the supreme Ahura of Zoroastrianism

    https://authenticgathazoroastrianism.org/2016/07/13/avestan-airyaman-irmin-got-as-a-name-of-odin-and-the-irish-eremon/

    Avestan Airyaman, Irmin-got as a name of Odin and the Irish Éremón

    https://authenticgathazoroastrianism.org/2017/06/12/rune-thurisaz-frost-giants-and-the-severe-cosmic-winter-in-zoroastrianism/

    Rune Thurisaz, Frost Giants, and the severe cosmic winter in Zoroastrianism

    For example, In Latvian and Lithuanian, God is called Deva or Devta, just like Hinduism.
    The Central Asian nations ending ‘stan’ (Uzbekistan, Afghanistan) is similar to Sanskrit ‘Sthan’ which means place and is parallel to the German word for city ‘Stadt’ and is parallel to the English word ‘to stand’.
    Similarly the ancient Anglo-Germans believed that all humans were descended from ‘Mannus’ hence the word ‘Man’ . In Hinduism, it is believed all humans descended from Sage ‘Manu’ hence the word for man in Hindi is ‘Manushya’, ‘Manav’.
    The term ‘Himalayas’ (Himalayan mountain) , ‘Hima’ stands for snow and Himalaya means abode of snow. In Russian, winter is called ‘Zima’.
    Few of many examples.

    • Replies: @myself
  316. @renfro

    cows are sacred to indians. pork is forbidden for muslims.

    don’t start seeing red from the food on someone’s plate.

    • Replies: @Malla
  317. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    Hmmm. Maybe you are right. Lets see.

  318. myself says:
    @bookish1

    That’s right! Aryans were KINGS . . . . an’ Shiieet!

    More seriously, there WERE some proto-Aryans in what is today Xinjiang, before they were pushed out or destroyed by proto-Asians (we’re talking about 2,500 BC).

    In the Han ancestral area (between the Yangtze river and Mongolia) there WERE a large numbers of nomadic proto-Mongols, Manchus and Turks (who gave their DNA contribution to the formation of the actual Han identity – along with Tibetans, actually). This was in the time BEFORE recorded Chinese history.

    Most of those developments, inventions, discoveries and innovations were DURING the time when civilization had arisen in China.

    Look, I can get that people are now not impressed by China. I get that Chinese nowadays copy and yes “Culturally Appropriate” EVERYTHING USEFUL (including but not limited to many aspects of European Civilization). And furthermore, they do it right in the open, for they know Westerners stopping their modernity being copied worldwide is like trying to hold back the ocean.

    But really, we have to give these ancient cultures their due.

  319. Anonym says:
    @Bill

    Tidal wave was wrong but understandable. And so something, anything that could stand in for it, e.g. Japanese “tsunami” was better. Literally a harbor wave, in translation it is not evocative or really any more correct as tides affect harbors too.

    Then there is the technically perfect and utterly sexless Seismic Sea Wave.

    Hopefully my point was made that rather than think that this is the End of History (TM), in fact history has just been postponed and when it returns there will be Interesting Times.

  320. Corvinus says:
    @AaronB

    “Not skepticism corvinus but a profound optimism.”

    Profound optimism to you because of what you perceive to be true. Assuredly, other people who would challenge that point of view are reasonable to point out that you are expressing skepticism.

    “The two philosophical poles are – the world is composed of substance or it is a “process” without substance.”

    You have your unique take on how you believe there are these two philosophical poles, and proceed to craft a position based on that position. It does not mean, however, that your line of thinking is the ONLY way people MUST view matters.

    “Wars are fought because we think the world is composed of “things” that we must posses. That’s the Western view and it’s why the history of the West is extraordinarily violent.”

    In reality, people, whether it be the Chinese or the Europeans, have thought that the world consists of material objects. And the Chinese were other than peaceful in their long-standing history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_wars_and_battles

    “I look at the world and see its evil and wish to “eradicate” it, as if it were a “thing”.”

    Good and evil are both tangible and intangible, and have been recognized by human beings as a “thing”, one that should either be pursued or destroyed.

    “since I see humans as process and not substance, I merely mean that a particular process will blend into other processes. Nothing will have been lost, because no “thing” existed in the first place.”

    Considering that processes contains substance, and considering that a process is a substance that is subject to alteration or change, there is the distinct likelihood you are engaging in pseudo-intellectualism here.

    “It is also the fluidity of Jewish thinking, which I know well. You will often find in Jewish culture contradictory and multiple ideas expressed on the same topic with no attempt to reconcile them. Truth is “situatonal” and provisional and there is no concept of an underlying “thing”.”

    Actually, you often find a number of cultures by which there is contradiction and ideas expressed with little effort or an unwillingness to reconcile them.

    “Whites are forever defending some eternal “thing” which commits them to certain strategies they cannot deviate from.”

    Actually, people throughout human history have defended an eternal “thing”, as they have placed a value on that object, whether it be a personal value or a group value or a cultural value.

    “Both Jews and Asians do not take the world seriously because they do not look for permanence within it.”

    You are going to have to offer specific examples here rather than make an unsupported statement.

    “I do not exorct you corvinus to understand a single word I have written or give anything remotely resembling an intelligent reply.”

    What I understand is that you have a way of looking at the world which you believe to be true, which does mean it is universally true.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  321. myself says:
    @JJ

    There is also the unspoken but very real admissions quota for Asians in the best universities – as pointed out in an article right here in this site (and indeed in many sites by now).

    Gotta keep the gates barred so that we can dominate, after all. Can’t be seen to be handily out-performed by these POCs, none of whom are beneficiaries of Affirmative Action. Quite the reverse, actually.

  322. myself says:
    @Joe Wong

    Well, I guess this is the time I will make an explicit prediction in this thread. Here it is:

    2018-2020 marks the beginning of the decline of not only American, but Western power in Asia. Gradually at first, then accelerating rapidly, it will be quite clear to all observers that these years mark the beginning of a new epoch in world history.

    Not a bad thing. Good for the West, actually. We need all our energy, wealth, power and will to be brought home, where the challenge to our very being is now existential and mortally dire.

  323. myself says:
    @AaronB

    “What is united must inevitably divide, what is divided must inevitably unite”.

    Flux – I believe is the term. A good term.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  324. myself says:
    @Malla

    None of this is surprising, or even that new.

    It has been long established that the chariot riding invaders of the Subcontinent, the destroyers of Harappa, Mohenjo-Daro and the ancient Indus River civilization in 1500 B.C., were in fact Indo-Europeans. They were coming from long migration from North Eurasia. It was they who instituted the Caste system in India.

  325. DB Cooper says:
    @Malla

    Sikkimese didn’t choose to join India although I know this is the narrative India is pushing. India plan for years to annex Sikkim and finally made the move in 1975.

    • Replies: @Malla
  326. AaronB says:
    @Corvinus

    What I understand is that you have a way of looking at the world which you believe to be true, which does mean it is universally true.

    Thank you, corvinus, for acknowledging this.

    That’s all I ask.

    • Agree: Daniel Chieh
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  327. @Malla

    That’s the future for the West. The churches are racial/ethnic. There is no pope. As a Western, Latin rite woman, we’ll have to incorporate elements of the pre-Vatican II RCC into the Western Orthodox church.

    • Replies: @myself
  328. @Malla

    The Japanese, Koreans and Chinese are ugly races. Only a very very, tiny minority is attractive. The upper caste Indians of India are the only attractive Asians. Some are so white looking they qualify as Caucasians. I recall a news segment about some Indians who have Chinese origins and are discriminated against by the non-Chinese Indians. Seeing the two types together, the Indians looked better than the Chinese.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Malla
  329. grapesoda says:

    I would respond to Joe Wong’s comments, but I don’t want to stare into the abyss that he clearly inhabits.

  330. Corvinus says:
    @AaronB

    “What I understand is that you have a way of looking at the world which you believe to be true, which does mean it is universally true.”

    Bonehead move on my part. I should have proofread. I failed on that part miserably.

    Here is what I meant to say–What I understand is that you have a way of looking at the world which you believe to be true, which DOES NOT mean it is universally true.

    Thank you for pointing out my mistake.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  331. AaronB says:
    @Corvinus

    Or perhaps it was a Freudian slip :)

    Don’t be so hard on yourself – you’re not a bonehead. No one’s keeping score.

  332. AaronB says:
    @myself

    Yes. The cyclical nature of history.

    It’s far superior to the “arc of history” silliness so popular these days, which that jackass Pinker is trying to defend once again.

  333. myself says:
    @attilathehen

    What is this “Western Orthodox” church?

    I have heard of the “Eastern Orthodox Church” and the “Roman Catholic Church”. What is Western Orthodox?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @attilathehen
  334. @Joe Wong

    Mongols shot the European heavy cavalry like sitting ducks which caused ‘Yellow Peril’ as a Dionysius sword over the White’s head thanks to your proud European heavy cavalry.

    Don’t culturally appropriate the achievements of Mongols, kthx bye.

  335. wayfarer says:
    @another fred

    Quite interesting, thank you.

    Lots of them here in the Sonoran Desert.

    Something about their essence, their presence, their song, that is so serene.

    It’s understandable why this creature has come to symbolize hope, peace, the “holy spirit.”

    It may sound superstitious, but I always feel as if some spiritual specter accompanies them.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mourning_dove
    source: http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/sonoran_desert.htm

  336. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    Which “one” ? :-)

    • Replies: @Malla
  337. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @attilathehen

    What is the aim of your trolling which seems to take the simple form of making totally unprovable offensive-to-many assertions in the form of personal preferences dressed up as statements of fact?

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  338. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Joe Wong

    Are all those “deliberate errots” and overstatements a clue to the calm and cautiously observant? That is that y0u are advertising to the not-so-thick reader that you are trolling? But who are you aiming your provocations at, and why?

  339. Malla says:
    @Anonymous

    hehe. I guess the first one is more important, so take that.

  340. Malla says:
    @myself

    I guess, she meant in the future. But there has been some history of Orthodoxy in Western Europe, in Britain and Ireland, for example.

    https://orthodoxwiki.org/Timeline_of_Orthodoxy_in_the_British_Isles

    St. Alban, Protomartyr of Britain in Christian Orthodox style

  341. denk says:
    @Malla

    Im merely doing a thankless job that the bloody CCP should’ve been doing all along.

    When whiteys bleat about Chinese propaganda I gotta laugh !
    Those morons in Beijing dont even have a counter propaganda dept, never mind a propaganda ministry. !
    In the end its left to old goats like me who couldnt stand the daily tsunami of whiteys B.S. to take up the cudgel !

    The murkkans , who’r kept in the dark and fed B.S. all day like mushroom, should’ve thanked people like us, but judging from the reaction here, my truth telling invites only more hatred, , such ingrates !

    As another example of ungrateful murkkans,

    Here’s an Indian B.S.tting his murkkan soul mates that …
    ‘China is behind the coup in Nepal, which would’ve been long gobbled up if not for Indian protection’ [a]

    ROFLMAO !
    ROBBER CRYING ROBBERY

    I told myself WTF !
    this people really are shameless, I must tell those innocent yanks the truth so I sent in the following….[b]

    iNDIA using Maoists against Nepal, [1]

    The main characteristic of the relations between Nepal and China is that we have no bilateral problems at all. Nepal has two imminent neighbours and we have countless problems with our neighbour in the South and not a single problem with our neighbour in the North. This is why, both the countries, Nepal and China, enjoy very cordial and harmonious relations at the government level as well as at the people’s level. [2]

    Nepal’s geopolitical situation is different from Sri Lanka’s. While Sri Lanka does not have an immediate neighbor other than India, Nepal does have a neighbor in China, which has to safeguard its own security interests, mainly in Tibet. Those who have seen New Delhi sending troops to Sri Lanka in 1980s to rescue Tamils involved in a separatist movement do not believe that India would repeat that exercise in Nepal. [3]

    Whad’ya Know?

    Those dumb fucks would rather swallow Indian cow dung, ignore testimonies from the Napalese themselves and banned me from their site !

    I’d have happily leave those dumb fucks to stew in their own juice but for the fact that these brain dead zombies have their hands on thousands of nukes , one of these days they’r gonna destroy the world out of their god damned hubris and ignorance.

    hehehehe

    [a]

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1336484/posts

    [b]
    not exactly these link, couldnt recall what I did send back then !
    but you get the gist.

    [1]

    http://web.archive.org/web/20060513014244/http://www.newslinenepal.com/index6.php?sno=38&tbl=ace

    [2]

    http://web.archive.org/web/20071019093308/http://peoplesreview.com.np/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3325&Itemid=94

    [3]

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HJ24Df01.html

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @denk
    , @TT
  342. @Daniel Chieh

    Thank you for your levelheaded and knowledgeable contributions. I think you made a comment on Chinese voting patterns in Australia. I hope it is a sign that my hoped for future is on track. Australia, I trust, avoids importing cheap labor – in line with the Labor Party’s union origins which was the main reason for the White Australia policy till about 1966 – as it doesn’t need it for its largescale mining and ag businesses or, yet, aged care and should be able to count on its prosperous Chinese 4 or 5 per cent and – only lagging a little – a similar proportion of subcontintentals to counteract the cynical left votebuyers of the now corrupted still union owned Labor Party and the mad rentseeking, largely publicly employed Greens. Unfortunately Australia can afford many years of lower productivity than it needs to be under a professional politicians’ régime. I suspect I am ceasing to call myself a liberal democrat…..

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  343. @jim jones

    Man, I can’t stand those people! they are arrogant, haughty, and harmful to America! I promised my self not to purchase any garbage they produce, as long as I can, and since I have need of nothing of theirs, I only need food and few other things, that are produced in the good old USA. Believe it, you can still purchase items made in USA, all you do have to do is to look for them.

    It looks like there is a conspiracy against us in our own country! I was in Europe, and surprise! surprise, their stores’ shelves are full of items made in Europe! Why can we just do the same?

    • Replies: @TT
    , @TT
  344. Joe Wong says:

    Reply to Comment #345 Anonymous • Disclaimer
    It is a reply to comment #106 by John Derbyshire, an history denier, and unrepentant old days colonialist. If you consider those historical facts provocations, then it seems you are either uneducated or a soul mate of John Derbyshire. Mind you my comment is a mild statement of the ugly nature of the West, if you read the following, you will consider my comment is objective and refrained.

    Exposing Lies of the Empire – Andre Vltechek
    The Eastern Origins of Western Civilisation – John M Hobson
    Legal Orientalism, China, The United States, and Modern Law – Teemu Ruskola
    Chinese Law in Imperial Eyes – Li Chen

  345. Malla says:
    @JJ

    Jews have a history of dominating powers in the Middle East too. Jews genetically fall in between Europeans and Middle Easterners with Ashkenazi more towards the European side, Sephardi slightly less and Mizrahim more towards Middle Easterners. It will be interesting to see any attempt to take over East Asian powers.
    However there was a lot of Jewish influence in the early Chinese communist movement.

    https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2013/12/18/jews-in-china-mao-era/

    CHINAS “REVOLUTIONARY” JEWS

    https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/chinese-communism-yes-but-it-was-jewish-when-it-started/

    CHINESE COMMUNISM? YES BUT IT WAS JEWISH WHEN IT STARTED

    I wonder if that is the case with Korea and Vietnam too.

  346. Malla says:
    @DB Cooper

    If you are interested in the whole Sikkim fiasco, the Indian imperialist annexation of Sikkim, this book is a must read.

    http://pahar.in/wpfb-file/1984-smash-and-grab-annexation-of-sikkim-by-datta-roy-s-pdf/

    Smash and Grab: Annexation of Sikkim by Sunanda K. Datta-Ray
    P.S. The above book was banned in India.

    Funny is it not. We Indians wailing and bleating about the evul British imperialism only to behave imperialist ourselves when given the opportunity. Indonesians braying and bleating about evul Dutch imperialism/ Japanese imperialism only to act imperialist in Irian Jaya, on the black Papuans. Kenyans braying and bleating about evul British, about the clamp down on the Mau Mau, only to use the same tactics used by the Brits, later on the Somalis of North Kenya with the Kenyan administration at that time being dominated by the Kikuyu, the same tribe behind the Mau Mau movement!!
    Hypocrisy at the finest.

  347. TT says: • Website
    @John Derbyshire

    Initially i thought John Derbyshire was juz naughtily trying to cobble some outright imbeciles writen articles that discriminating against China Chinese, to a ridiculous extend of justifying opium war is harmless for Chinese but themselves to blame for replacing opium with sesame paste, juz to spark some interesting debate.

    In the grand scale of psychoactive substances, opium as smoked in China from the seventeenth century onwards is not exceptionally harmful. A wealthy Chinese opium smoker “’does not seem much the worse’ for his habit,” noted an 1890s observer (quoted by Midler).

    So why was opium smoking so devastating among China’s poor? Adulteration, says Midler. In the extreme, a cheap variety named Hankow Cake contained no opium at all, only sesame seeds. Chines blame every wrong on others including opium war

    But this Tibet & Xinjiang statement has clearly given him away, he is juz another wilful anti-Chinese hater agitprop hiding in sheep skin with no slight good intention.

    For he had self proclaimed to read every books written about China, so he had no excuse to claim stupidity ignorant here.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  348. @myself

    It doesn’t exist, yet. I’m just putting out ideas because the RCC is gone. Diversity has destroyed it. I don’t mean Christianity. I mean the physical church. I left the RCC because I don’t accept black/Asian priests-popes. Many RCCers are converting to the Eastern Orthodox Church. The churches are racial/ethnic so that will work better with the West. The problem is the difference in the art forms and some theology. This is why I propose a church that blends both but incorporates both traditions.

  349. @Anonymous

    Trolling? Assertions? I start everything with IQ, the most important, objective, measurable truth on earth. IQ measurements will lead to distinct racial differences. Racial differences lead to different “souls.” The Caucasian/European standard is the most imitated physical form in the world. Blacks/Asians cannot measure up to this standard. These are facts. You cannot deal with reality.

    • Replies: @Anon
  350. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    Really? Not according to me. But we all have our tastes. North East Asians look more evolved than most Indians. Nearly all Indian subcontinentals including the upper castes have Australoid/black ancestry. Upper castes have less of it and more Caucasoid DNA but we are all mixed.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  351. TT says:
    @John Derbyshire

    This is my forte. I’ve read (a) well-nigh every book written by foreigners about China, and (b) much of what the Chinese have written about themselves (yes, including this one).

    Indeed its John forte, to read every books about China, and continue to lies outright.

    To gobble how much West sewage does not make one any slightest healthier or wiser. Only if one travel to China, live and see for yourself with open mind without prejudice.

    China is such vast country with 1.4B people make up of many different ethnics & cultures, one that has a proud long 5000yrs civilization that not any fool should stereotype Chinese with a few isolated cases or old history, nor critics on Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism, etc. after reading a few books.

    Juz as we shouldn’t stereotype all Americans with Trumps, Niki, Bush, Clintons, rednecks, or hiphop Blacks, if you ever visited and live in US you can understand my message, the majority are more than that. Nor should we continue to harp on All Germans are Nazis, All AngloSaxon are Viking Pirates, All Blacks are Slave,….

    At times we might make some sarcastic remarks in our comments against say US gov moron mentality, just for fun but not stereotype all Americans are like that.

  352. TT says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Still, the Chinese are not known to be be big-time bakers, and those things have a piece of egg inside. What the hell, Chinaman? I, myself am partial to Chocolate moon pies, especially when accompanied by a Chocolate or Strawberry Yoohoo.

    LOL, which part of planet you come from? it juz prove you have never travel out of your little town and try to talk something you never tasted before, good moon cake. Not those cheap moon pies in Walmart you feasted and start bragging…

    I had tried so many varieties that i lost count, you name it. But they aren’t cheap.
    Chocolate, Durians, Bean paste, green tea, ice cream, lotus seed, single egg, double eggs, birdnest, seafood,….with various outer crusts, crispy to tender soft, hot to frozen.

    I don’t know how to paste pic(can someone teach me?), you can see for yourself with Google. Get updated, Chinese has thousands year of bakery history, still developing. Juz google mooncake variety, you will find your favourite, more than juz strawberry & chocolate you can ever imagine.

    Now i know why you write foolish thing in peakstupidity site. Pretend to know Chinese culture well to criticize but never been there nor able to afford good Chinese cuisine.

    From China:

    https://www.chinahighlights.com/festivals/top-10-mooncake-flavors.htm

    From Singapore:

    http://www.shape.com.sg/food/20-special-mooncakes-try-year/

    I think HK or Taiwan, Malaysia will have even more varieties?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @denk
  353. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Cows are nice and useful, but Dogs are Man’s best friend.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  354. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    Hey Aaron, what do you think of this. I would really want your opinion on what this Indian/Bangladeshi guy Mr. Frank Raymond says.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  355. Snowman says:
    @John Derbyshire

    I don’t know how you get that. I’d like the Chinese to restrict their territorial ambitions to metropolitan China, i.e. get the heck out of Tibet and Eastern Turkestan; but within that zone I’m happy for them t0 be as nationalist as they please.

    I don’t know how you get that. I’d like the Americans to restrict their territorial ambitions to metropolitan America, i.e. get the heck out of Iraq, Germany and Japan; but within that zone I’m happy for them t0 be as nationalist as they please.

    • Replies: @Anon
  356. There may even be placatory Irishmen: I don’t know, I couldn’t say.

    Oh Derb, hostility is our way of being friendly.

  357. Malla says:
    @denk

    Those morons in Beijing dont even have a counter propaganda dept, never mind a propaganda ministry. !

    Very Strange! As commies are experts in propaganda, always have been. Maybe the Chinese government today is naive about the importance of propaganda and counter propaganda. Anyways in most websites there are very few Chinese posting as most Chinese live in their own Han world of language and internet restrictions. There were Indians everywhere throughout the internet. It is only recently am I seeing many Chinese posters on the internet and it is on Unz where I see a large number of them posting the PRC point of view. Unz.com is truly a great place to understand how the world really works.
    I do not see many posters from Vietnam about their point of view, may be we will see many in the future.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  358. Malla says:
    @TT

    I don’t know how to paste pic(can someone teach me?)

    Find the pic via google, and go to the webpage with only the pic and then get the webpage address (url) and just paste the url on your comment box. When you publish, in 90% of cases, the pic should come. I hope that helps.

    • Replies: @TT
  359. denk says:
    @Malla

    your depiction of scholar vs bandidos wouldnt be complete without the deputy sheriff !

    hhhhhh

    • Replies: @Malla
  360. denk says:
    @TT

    pasting image

    previously when you do google search, click on the image tag on top,
    get tons of relevant images, then click visit image, copy the url and paste in your comment, RU software will do the rest.

    But just the other day google classify its images search as propriety.
    now I use searx.me, click the image, then click the ‘get image’ below and copy its url.

    after you hit post comment, if you can see the image on the box pending moderation, then its done.

    hope this help !

  361. denk says:
    @denk

    It’s been a hard day , need some entertainment ?
    DONT MISS THIS ONE !

    This is the Indian cow dung fed to the murkkans, verbatim !

    The [Nepalese] King had better tred lightly. The only reason Nepal even exists as an independent nation is because of India. Otherwise it would have went down with Tibet and they would all be speaking Chinese.

    See how the murkkans lap it all up,,,,,,…

    Thanks for enlightening me. I learn something new everyday.

    buahahahahaha

  362. @Wizard of Oz

    We can tell if the same-sex marriage goals fail in the Land of Oz…

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  363. TT says:
    @ThatDamnGood

    Wobbly comment is correct in a sense for general stereotype, but wording can be less provoking imho.

    There was a saying around 1990′s that:
    Every law abiding ignorant Sporean into China biz, all get cheated empty.
    Every HKie into China biz, 50% loss, 50% win as equally street smart.
    Every Taiwanese into China biz, all mainland Chinese get cheated empty. In actual facts many Taiwanese also lost badly, juz lesser.

    There were many news about how shrewd Taiwanese business men swindled mainland Chinese, some even using brutal triads. These are history now i think. But street smart Taiwanese are really make to success in such lawless business environment, even outwitting China gov into swindled their bank loan with fake factory setup and transactions to transmit out the fund tightly controlled by CPC.

    And because of that, Singaporeans are usually derided by other chinese for being too naive – we do aim for long term advantages and customer relationships as inculcated by our western upbringing, although we also lapse all too frequently into our genetic heritage.

    China urgently needs to start going for high quality and customer relationship now as economy already reach sufficient level that failed State Owned Enterprise SOE that produced junks can phased out without destabilizing whole society. Every country went through this path, Japan was famous as日本= 一日够本 (product worth a day), but it embraced Lee’s quality theory to bcom top premium quality (declining now). The world incl you mainland Chinese are all too irritated by China poor quality products.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  364. @TT

    China urgently needs to start going for high quality and customer relationship now as economy already reach sufficient level that failed State Owned Enterprise SOE that produced junks can phased out without destabilizing whole society.

    I recollect that twitter Chinese graduate student in a SJW class and his efforts to craft a “mission statement” for a company:

    long-term greedy, not short-term greedy

    Made me chuckle pretty hard.

    • Replies: @TT
  365. TT says:
    @ThatDamnGood

    But it also seems to made ‘you guys’ more susceptible to Western propaganda at perhaps an unconscious level.

    Anti-China mentality is common among uninformed Singaporean i observed, esp the younger generation leaders & people that are totally fed with Western Koolaid since born, adoring West blindly to hate China everything. Now gov is trying to improve on Chinese education with China ascending, but Western msm have monopolized all media, sinophobe is obvious in SG newspaper.

    I suppose there is a certain amount of resentment that China is eating Singapore lunch at at increasing pace. But Lee Kuan Yew anticipated this would be so and said so like 30 years when he said Singapore needed to become a knowledge economy to hold it’s own against China. And you guys are still trying to be one. But it’s not China’s fault that the 2 Prime Ministers after him lacked his execution ability or the benefit of having Albert Winsemius as his Zhugeliang and his plans failed to come about.

    Why would Spore need resentment towards China? Every Sporean with slight intelligent know its China butter their bread, and their future prosperity insurance, consider that long time strategic relationship carefully nurtured since LKY & Deng time, with Spore unconditionally providing China with all FDI & knowledge/skills transfer/training.

    China would want a prosperous Spore as Asean partner for sure at that strategic location, their smart leaders are still awaiting for PM LHL to sober up to reality or next better PM. With foreign Indians now occupying every high post in gov, it seem remote unless a real 3rd gen leader appear which is even more impossible under LHL.

    Nepotism destroyed best leaders to surface on merits. Many see that 2nd PM Goh CT was merely a seat warmer for LKY son, 3rd PM LHL to ascend. LHL cause damage to the country with many talented leaders, admin & civil head left. A weak leader will not tolerate anyone better than him.

    But overall, the gov still perform excellent comparatively to the world clowns circus now. And Spore itself has reached a stable system that will still work as long the leader don’t screw up too much.

    the benefit of having Albert Winsemius as his Zhugeliang and his plans failed to come about.

    I never heard Albert was Spore Zhugeliang. But Spore BEST Zhugl ex-DPM Dr Goh Keng Swee was head hunted by DengXP since 1980′s. The real brain in making what Spore success, from Finance, JTC Industrial Park, HDB public housing, CPF fund, Asean best army force, ….every impossible missions. LKY highly praised GKS as the man that is more capable than him to task for every most important missions.

    But LKY do kept as many talents as he could as think tank. As he said, a real leader need not able to do everything, but he must able to attract the best and know who is best to do what. Probably he learnt much from ancient China Emperor wisdom & Confucianism.

    Still he commented, China has the world best think tank, they know your country better than you, and come with a irresistible proposal that what they can give and what they need which you can offer. So we can see many countries fall into China partnership eagerly that FukusIndia are out to sabotage.

    新年快乐

  366. @Malla

    and they are both delicious to different segments of the human race.

    what is your point?

    • Replies: @Malla
  367. TT says:
    @ThatDamnGood

    If anything, Singapore or perhaps more accurately, the PAP should learn to pragmatic and accept things and see if there is a way to make the most of things as you guys would say. I mean in spite of Lee Hsien Loong, top CPC cadres are still sent to NTU right?

    Ever wonder why Mr Lee Kuan Yew so closed to China with Mr Deng XP as his only admired stateman, want to solicite US to balance China rising in Asia Pacific?

    This is what i could think of:

    Under Jiang ZM era in initial opening up of China lawless market, Spore suffered much loses in China investment due to its honest law abiding social norm under LKY PAP.

    LKY had great foresight to see the utmost potential of a great prosperous China that he get Spore invested deeply into China from earliest stage with much knowhow transfer and FDI.

    But the Suzhou mayor lawless mafia style (with Jiang approval for sure) of robbing a high profile state-to-state $Bil Suzhou Industrial Park had upset Lee KY so much into going public to denounce China gov and give up project. That probably had make LKY see China differently since, after Deng XP death, China is a dangerous lawless bully.

    I would further speculate that with many accumulated bad experiences later under ultra corrupted China gov from lowest level up to highest Jiang that bankrupted so many Spore businessmen had instilled deeply in LKY to conclude that a strong unrestrained China without moral virtues and law abiding system is indeed great menace to the world. So he advocated for US to counterbalance China, as Japan and India are simply aren’t up to standard.

    With Mr Hu Jing Tao tightly under Jiang’s controlled(?), there was nothing much improve if not worsen as ex-Premier Zhu Rong Ji had proclaimed. Still Spore relationship with China improved much as Spore continue to provide highest FDI & all helpful aids like free training and skill transfer in whatever China needs.

    Pres Xi JP relentless cracked down of corruption to remove many Jiang stooges seem changing China much. Singapore appeared to engage in many mega industrial parks and big projects successfully. As time passed, i heard Singapore has make a good reputation as preferred reliable partners(besides Germans) in China bcos of honesty?

    With Pres Xi JP strong leadership able to put China on a responsible peaceful rising, probably LKY might regret in his grave now that he had invited a hegemonic destructive US to rebalance in AsiaPac, obstructing China peaceful rise & sabotaging AP peace and prosperity greatly.

    This has instilled much dislike among Chinese towards Spore. PM LHL has further aggravate that with his weak leadership manipulated by US into chaining Spore with US anti-China war machine. LKY muz be turning in his grave to see that.

    Still under early stage, Mr LeeKY is correct to perceive the great danger in a corrupted and lawless superpower China that will out produce and out sell everyone, to solicite US. But Pres Xi has miraculously restructured China, and now on another bigger mission to contain world greatest threat, declining US Empire.

    Until China can protect all its ally from US, all pragmatic leaders will be continuously threaten or blackmailed into anti-China. LHL is galaxy far from his father ability and credential to yield any political influence to resist US control.

  368. Lin says:
    @renfro

    Next time people commit cannibalism, that’s consuming tissue/body fluid(say,blood) of the same species, remember:
    Sperm lives matter !!

    Chicken lives matter !!

    https://chickenlivesmatter.com/

    Carrot juice is murder !!

  369. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Humans were delicious to many segments of the human race.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  370. Malla says:
    @denk

    Deputy Sheriff will protect Scholar.

  371. @Malla

    No, the slanted eyes and flat faces of the North East Asians are hideous. As to the Indians, I’ve never heard of the Brahmins having “black ancestry.” Again, the Aryan Indian is a tiny minority, but this does not exist in the rest of Asia. Aishwarya Rai is an example of this upper caste Aryan beauty. No Chinese, Japanese, Korean woman could compete with her. India has an Aryan past. This is why the Nazis went to India for truth. China, Japan, Korea have nothing Aryan or Caucasian about them. Hence their inferior religious belief systems. The West looks to ancient Egypt (Caucasian) and ancient India (Aryan) for its roots. It never looks to China, Japan, Korea or other Asian nations.

    And, no not everyone is mixed. And if some are mixed, we must look at the mixture.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  372. @Malla

    you are equating eating dogs to eating humans, cannibalism?

    seriously? like are you seriously trying to use this point? I thought you were a balanced person till this comment.

    what do you think of people who kill cows and eat beef, the animal that is sacred to you? you are an indian right?

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Malla
  373. TT says:
    @Anonymous

    No one here is stoping British to recolonized India if they wish. And if Brits could, they won’t hesitate a sec to exploit. Go ahead, i think India will love it too, with joint passport as soulmates. Then a billion Indian will reside in UK, while 70Mil British can move to Bombay, Delhi….your choice.

  374. Corvinus says:

    “No, the slanted eyes and flat faces of the North East Asians are hideous.”

    Of course, your position runs afoul of God. Repent for your sins is most advisable.

    Matthew 7:1-5 –> Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

    “The West looks to ancient Egypt (Caucasian) and ancient India (Aryan) for its roots. It never looks to China, Japan, Korea or other Asian nations.”

    You really are not that bright.

    http://sciencenordic.com/china-has-inspired-us-enlightenment

    “I start everything with IQ, the most important, objective, measurable truth on earth.”

    Right, YOU start it there. Does not mean others have to agree with you. Do you want to know more, citizen?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @attilathehen
  375. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    they don’t have to be more intelligent than the japanese. They just have to be more intelligent than you.

    Its an insult, it means at most IQ86 still way too low to be normal functional. Chinese ave is above 100.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  376. Blaming the “West” is a rote excuse for Chinese nationalists, drummed into them from a young age. Look at the ridiculous story they came up with in the Gui Minhai case this week – like usual, it’s all a Western anti-China conspiracy – nothing wrong with Beijing’s behavior.

    Apart from ancient Rome and Greece, the West has been ahead of China since the Renaissance. How do Chinese nationalists square this with their belief in China being the eternal centre of civilization? By blaming the “West” of course – on a few 19th century wars, and widespread drug use. And when people point out what a pathetic excuse this is (most Western nations suffered wars, defeats and widespread drug use far worse than China ever did), it makes no difference whatsoever.

    On top of that, look at their patronizing and arrogant attitudes towards the rest of Asia – behaving as if they own Korea, Japan and the whole of the Asia.

    • Replies: @myself
  377. AaronB says:
    @Malla

    The first thing I want to point out is that Asians are not allowed to anthropologize white people – only non-whites are a suitable subject for anthropology :)

    Whites don’t have a “mentality” – they ate guided entirely by “rationality”. Didn’t you know that?

    That infraction of the unspoken code aside, you are exposing me to a phenomena that I was not aware of and that I find fascinating, and is encouraging despite being founded on utterly false premises.

    I couldn’t possibly listen to three hours of video so I will take the first point of the first video as a typical sample worth analyzing.

    It’s remarkable that the particular attribute he singles out as characteristically “white” is doing things that have no material purpose and that transcend our physical needs – that are “useless”, (perhaps, one might say, spiritual?)

    It’s remarkable because I was just reading a book by fascinating Dutch sinologist Pierre Ryckmans called the “The Hall of Uselessness” – which singles out an appreciation for “uselessness” as a particular feature of Chinese culture!

    Now, wouldn’t you agree that the characteristic feature of Western culture in the past few centuries, which focuses on technology, is precisely an obsessive focus on “usefulness” and the fulfilment of material needs? Isn’t that what’s EXACTLY Western lately?

    What a bold and strange reversal!

    Now, Ryckmans of course got that concept – and perhaps that phrase – from the writings of Chuang Tzu, who can be called the geat poet of “uselesness” and whose writings are replete with anecdotes extolling and celebrating the “merely” useless and that which transcends any conceivable material interest.

    Chusng Tzu, of course, is one of the pillars of traditional Chinese culture and a classical Chinese writer whose influence has helped form the traditional Chinese sensibility in its mature form.

    It would seem that your Indian guy had to turn to anecdote and alternative culture to find an equivalent sensibility in the West, whereas in Chinese culture this attitude can be found heavily integrated into the mainstream!

    Now, that doesn’t mean he is wrong – right now, mainstream Chinese culture may well be more obsessed with the instrumental and an appreciation for the “useless” may well find better expression among certain alternative streams in Western culture.

    But “essentially” a feature of the Western mind, and “essentially” lacking among non-Westerners?

    That is about as neat a reversal of reality as one could possibley encounter – precisely the distinctive “novelty” of the West for the past few centuries is its elevation of usefulness and material needs above all other considerations.

    Even today in “peripheral” countries not oblsessed with “matching” the West one finds a pleasingly chaotic and seedy dysfunction that reflects a casual disinterest in “maximization” and similar ways of worshiping the material.

    Even in Japan, even in India, you find compromises with values other than efficiency that would be extremely un-mainstream in the West.

    Nevertheless I find this Indian guy extremely heartening and encouraging and as proving my point and nullifying yours :)

    What is obviously happening is that the ancient spiritual yearning of Indians is growing dissatisfied with the rampant materialism of contemporary India and groping towards spiritual values.

    The “metaphysical” character of Indians is reasserting itself even as it denies that it is widespread among Indians anymore – which may well be true, for the time being.

    What we see here is a good example of a dialectical process that is fundamental to how this world of ours functions – alternative cultures emerge in the West that oppose the mainstream obsession with efficiency, and Indians who oppose similar developments in their homeland are asserting ancient Indian spirituality by finding it elsewhere.

    And it is natural. As the West first underwent the processes that are destroying Indian spirituality, doesn’t it make sense that opposition would now also be more developed in the West?

    Interestingly, what I find in India are vestiges and relics of an ancient spirituality that are being destroyed, whereas what Indians are finding in the West is the first budding shoots of a new spirituality that may show the way out of our hideous materialistic quagmire!

    As I said in the beginning, I couldn’t possibly watch all that video – honestly I can’t stand the video format and much prefer the printed word – so if you care to, feel free to mention any point from those videos that you’d like me to discuss, if any, and I’d be happy to analyze it with you.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
  378. myself says:
    @ntonalt ntak

    They only dislike the West for what it objectively did. Only for the Unequal Treaties, Opium Wars, Drug-dealing, Extraterritoriality, and Military Occupations.

    They only say the West kicked China when China was already down, they don’t say the West brought China down in the first place – they blame themselves for that. There’s nothing SJW or whiny about the Chinese, but they do have a very very long memory.

    They don’t ever say that the West is at fault for China’s decline and fall. Nope, the Chinese I have met all say that China is at fault for China’s fall, and that they dedicate themselves to work forever for China to rise.

    Some may call that dedication “soulless”. I say it is what it is.

  379. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    you are equating eating dogs to eating humans, cannibalism?

    Nobody’s equating anything, he’s just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  380. @Anon

    what flaw?

    and how was that comment not an attempt at equivalency? do tell oh anon.

    • Replies: @Anon
  381. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    And, no not everyone is mixed. And if some are mixed, we must look at the mixture.

    No I meant , in the Indian subcontinent everybody is mixed.

  382. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    Thanks for your analysis. It was great to read. However it would have been great if you could see one whole video at least as he talks about a wide variety of points. Besides he considers it a racial character rather than a civilizational character.

  383. @Anon

    The anons are now forming a tag team against me. There are most certainly Asians in your lives.

  384. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    As to the Indians, I’ve never heard of the Brahmins having “black ancestry.”

    Brahmins are mixed, they just have more Caucasoid ancestry in the mix. Everybody in India is mixed. Brahmins even in behaviour do not match the Brahmins of the ancient Vedic period. You are talking of peoples 3500 years ago, Vedic times. Long time for intermarriage.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  385. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    You really are not that bright.

    Matthew 7:1-5 –> Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  386. Malla says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Post 386 answers well

    what do you think of people who kill cows and eat beef, the animal that is sacred to you? you are an indian right?

    Much more complicated than that.

    Elite Hindus are complete vegetarians and look down upon meat eaters as barbarians. Mleccha was used by the ancient Indians originally to indicate uncouth foreigners and then extended to their unfamiliar behaviour, and also used as a derogatory term in the sense of “impure and/or “inferior” people.
    The Baudhayana sutras define a mleccha as someone “who eats meat or indulges in self-contradictory statements or is devoid of righteousness and purity of conduct”. Mleccha could refer to any being who follow different teachings than Vedic beliefs. In the Bhagavata Purana, the term is used in the context of meat eaters, outcastes.

    Pure Vegetarian diet is called Satvic. Meat eating is Tamasic (Negative) in Hindu Ayurveda.

    Tamasic means having tama guna (negative quality). Tamasic makes the body and mind sluggish and slow, leading to torpor.

    The tamasic foods include meat, fish, mushrooms, alcohol. In addition fermented foods, including vinegar, bread, pastries and cakes are tamasic. Stale, overripe or underripe, tasteless and rotten foods are also tamasic. Processed foods are tamasic, including those that are preserved in any way, canned or frozen. Overeating is also tamasic.

    Satvic foods are considered good for the body and mind. This was summed up in the Bhagavad Gita:

    When light which is wisdom streams forth from all the doors of the body, then it may be understood that the pure-clear modality (satva) is predominant. – Bhagavad Gita (14:11)

    According to ancient Ayurveda, Tamasic food can destroy the body’s ability to fight disease and disrupt the proper functioning of the immune system. It can destructively alter brain function.

  387. @Malla

    You are puncturing my hopes and illusions! But still, you might see merit in my thesis about small minorities which, when added to a strong mainstream and an intelligent immigration policy, can give a country the right kind of diversity – especially when the natives are breeding dysgenically (as is happening throughout the Anglosphere, including its Jewish populations, Germany, France, Spain, Italy and presumably in China, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea too). I see the similar number of subcontinental immigrants to Australia to those from China and the Chinese diaspora as unlikely to combine against the interests of the existing mainstream. At present Indians tend to be poorer than the Chinese – more likely to be students who get beaten up because living in cheap outer suburbs whereas Chinese are already becoming known as likely to finance the new swimming pool at a prestigious school – but the logic of their coming with skills, or as self financed students seems clear. (Mind you I was reminded of the bad first hand stories I have had from Australians doing business in India by being warned that some Indian-Australian real estate agents who were making attractive of development land had a reputation for sharp practice).

    My hope is that these different groups of immigrant Australians (by no means a couple of monoliths and without obsessive racial unity just to add reality to the picture) are going to make modern prosperous liberal democracy work by keeping an element of meritocracy alive. I see Australia having a cynically oligarchic professional politicians’ Labor Party elected by buying the votes of the relatively unproductive many with the product of Australia’s good fortune and keeping Australia less efficient and productive than it could be. It will be hard to dislodge once they are ensconced. But maybe the newish Chinese and Indian element will at least offset the now opportunistic left wing Greens on Labor’s left to moderate the worst of Argentinian tendencies (think Peron and on and on)!

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Malla
    , @Malla
  388. @TT

    Nope open your narrow ethnocentric mind a bit and read John Derbyshire fairly. I’ve known him for 20 years and he’s no China hater. In fact, apart from a few dollops of often amusing contempt in lively language that he can throw around I wouldn’t even bother to look for hate in the amiable JD.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    , @TT
    , @Joe Wong
  389. Malla says:
    @AaronB

    What do you think of Video one in that post 1:01:05 to 1:10:20
    And trust me, I have friends who run businesses in India, my Dad ran a manufacturing unit, that Bangladesh worker incident is VERY common here. In the Indian subcontinent (and even parts of the Middle East and Africa, it is all cheatin and swindlin, cheatin and swindlin all around)

    And video 3
    53:49 to 1:04:25 minutes

  390. Malla says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    You clearly do not know us Indians (and Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans). A few will behave as you hope, the vast majority, not much. Your dreams are gonna crash. Sorry to say that. Australia is screwed. Should have kept the White Australia policy.
    But since Australia (like NZ and Canada) attracts high IQ educated Indians, you will see the problems with this immigration arise much later, after a latent time, it will be too late. With low IQ thugs (like some Muslim Lebanese and Sudanese migrants to Oz), you see the problems much faster.
    Read V.S. Naipaul’s books, the noble prize winning Caribbean writer of Indian heritage. Indians are Indians and always will be Indians. I have seen 3rd generation Indians in Britain. The same cheatin & swindlin and clannishness (a little less thanks to the influence of British culture), the same third worldliness behind the first worldliness facade. Even Anglican Christian Indians!!

    • Replies: @Anon
  391. @Malla

    I hope you can get this from the regular output in The Weekend Australian of an old lefty friendly acquaintance who is a regular both on the ABC (PC left) and in Rupert Murdoch’s press.

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/life/weekend-australian-magazine/indian-visa-rejection-still-a-mystery/news-story/0116022062cc023750ec06903ec1700d

    Comment?

    I tried copying and pasting on my phone where Phillip Adams article came up because I am a subscriber. If you can’t get it I don’t want to give my sub details to the world but I could try copying and pasting on a computer. Do you know how to do it on a phone?

    • Replies: @Malla
  392. Malla says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Actually many Indians in the west are turning into raging SJW crackpots, all because of jealousy and hatred for Whitey. Strangely many such Indian leftoid Hillary worshiping SJWs I know, support the ultra right winged Hindu fundamentalist BJP party back home in India. Nationalism for our tribe, Universalism for all other tribes.
    People like Dinesh Disouza are a tiny minority and many American Asian Indians see him as a traitor. Some rich Indians are moving to the right because of economic reasons, but Indians being street smart cunning people do not believe in all this democracy nonsense and prefer supporting both parties. That is how Indian oligarchs operate in India, financially support all political parties (BJP, Congress, AAP, AIDMK, SP etc…), so whoever comes to power, you keep your crony connections in the government. This is common knowledge here.

  393. @Daniel Chieh

    Too late. As one of the “as long as they don’t frighten the horses” school I voted No because I thought there were more conscientous decent people likely to be upset by a Yes vote than by a No vote given that there was no legal necessity for change to give people equal rights over property etc.

  394. Malla says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    My hope is that these different groups of immigrant Australians (by no means a couple of monoliths and without obsessive racial unity just to add reality to the picture) are going to make modern prosperous liberal democracy work by keeping an element of meritocracy alive.

    The democratic process gets corrupted as more and more heterogeneous (multiracialism/multiculturalism) the population of a nation becomes.

    https://www.whitenationalism.com/ls/ls-01.htm

    Here we see an article written by an Economist from Harvard University arguing that when diverse ethnic or racial groups fall under a power of a single government, they tend to use the political process as a means of extracting advantages for their own group at the expense of others.

    In India, being a multi cultural mega mess, elections at the grass root level is just getting a candidate of your own caste/tribe/religion into power, irrespective of their competence. That is why democracy in India at the ground level is a joke and is not at all suitable for a country (multicultural mix mess) like India.

    Check out this video from 13:37 to 16:15 as well as 20:32 to 23:20 minutes . The person on the chair is Markandey Katju, ex Chief Justice of India (he knows what he is talking about).

    He clearly states how democracy has failed in India as people vote like idiots on the basis of caste, tribe, ethnic group, religion etc…. This is very likely the future of Western societies as the West becomes more and more multiracial/multicultural.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
  395. Malla says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Very interesting. Typical Indian government behaviour by the …well Indian government.
    This article in an Indian paper

    https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/why-did-india-deny-australian-radio-legend-phillip-adams-a-visa/story-1su56eNg9hr2ITz4pWggFL.html

    speculates it could be because of Phillip Adams expose of the Adani group, an Indian oligarchic corporation’s plans to develop a coal mine in Australia and in the process damage the Great barier reef.

    India is basically a giant oligarchy and the Adanis are one of the big families who control it. The Adanis are very close to the present Indian government, Gautam Adani, the CEO is a Gujrati (mercantile people) just like PM Narendra Modi. The guy was a nobody some decades ago but because of his crony connections to Modi when Modi was Chief Minister of Gujrat State, suddenly became a multi billionaire. He funded Modi’s election campaign.

    Here we can see candidate Modi on an Adani private jet on his election campaign.

    Once in power Modi paid back Adani with largese and cancelled his penalties he owed to the government.

    https://www.dailyo.in/politics/gautam-adani-narendra-modi-vibrant-gujarat-corruption-acche-din-mundra-project-sbi-coal-mining-chhattisgarh-tribal-rights-rs-200-crore/story/1/11531.html

    Modi government cancels Rs 200cr penalty: Achhe din for Adani only?
    ‘Acche Din’ means ‘Good Days’ in Hindi, that was the elction slogan of PM Modi last elections. Good Days for Indians if he got elected.

    https://thewire.in/149156/modi-government-adani-group/

    Modi Government’s Rs 500-Crore Bonanza to the Adani Group
    1 crore Rupees = 10 million Rupees.

    So it seems, India a country of more than a billion with nukes makes decisions based on the interests of a slimeball private company! GREATTT!!!!

    The crony Adani group has decimated the environment and the lives of poor villages in many parts of India, they have the backing of the government to do as they please.

    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/06/27/modi-adani-old-friends-laying-waste-indias-environment/

    Modi and Adani: the old friends laying waste to India’s environment

    This was the slimey greedy Indian corporation which was going to develop the Carmichael mine in Australia and dredge the Great barrier Reef. The Adanis had bought politicians in Canberra. Phillip Adams must have worked on exposing him. And now his Visa denial was a revenge by Oligarch Gautam Adani.

    More on his poor environmental record in India and the threat his company posed to the Great Barrier Reef in the video below.

    Can We Trust Adani with the Great Barrier Reef? GetUp! Australia

  396. “The great event in China’s twentieth-century history was Mao Tse-tung’s revolution. Mao boasted that he would re-make China into a socialist utopia. No such thing happened. In fact nothing much happened. There was a spell of turmoil, to be sure; but when the dust settled, all was as before under Heaven.”

    Twaddle. Mao did more good–and less harm–for more people than anyone in history. Why do you think 10,000,000 people visit his birthplace each year, despite official efforts to discourage them?

    When Mao stepped onto the world stage in 1945 his country was convulsed by civil war, Russia had taken Mongolia and a piece of Xinjiang, Japan still occupied three northern provinces, Britain had taken Hong Kong, Portugal Macau, France pieces of Shanghai, Germany Tsingtao, and America dominated the opium trade.

    In 1949 China was agrarian, backward, feudalistic, ignorant and violent. Of its four hundred million people, fifty-million were drug addicts, eighty percent could neither read nor write and life expectancy was thirty-five years. Peasants paid seventy percent of their produce in rent, women’s feet were bound, desperate mothers sold their children in exchange for food and poor people, preferring slavery to starvation, sold themselves. U.S. Ambassador John Leighton Stuart reported that, during his second year in China, ten million people starved to death in three provinces. The Japanese had killed twenty-million and General Chiang Kai-Shek wrote that, of every thousand youths he recruited, barely a hundred survived the march to training base.

    By 1974 Mao had doubled the population, doubled life expectancy, reunited, reimagined, reformed and revitalized the largest, oldest civilization on earth, modernized it after a century of failed modernizations, liberated more women than anyone in history and ended thousands of years of famines. A strategist without peer, political innovator, he was a master geopolitician and a Confucian peasant, under crushing embargoes Mao had grown GDP by 7.3 percent annually and left the country debt-free.

    Harvard’s professor of Chinese Studies, John King Fairbanks, summarized[1] his legacy: “The simple facts of Mao’s career seem incredible: in a vast land of 400 million people, at age 28 with a dozen others to found a party and in the next fifty years to win power, organize, and remold the people and reshape the land–history records no greater achievement. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, all the kings of Europe, Napoleon, Bismarck, Lenin–no predecessor can equal Mao Tse-tung’s scope of accomplishment, for no other country was ever so ancient and so big as China. Indeed Mao’s achievement is almost beyond our comprehension”. [Fairbanks, The United States and China].

    Looking back through the lens of economic habits, practices, stats and reports, we can impute the scale of Mao’s achievement. He’s called the founder of modern China because he designed and laid the foundation on which the economy and civil society rests. In doing so, he rejected, for example, the Soviet practice of building gigantic, centralized industrial facilities in the name of ‘efficiency’ and instead created the most decentralized (to this day) economy on earth. And that’s less than 1% of his foundational role.

    These three articles examine each of Mao’s most famous campaigns:

    http://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered/?highlight=mao

    http://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered-part-two-whose-famine/

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-great-proletarian-cultural-revolution/

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
    , @Malla
  397. @Weaver1

    A nation-state built to endure, especially one that won’t commit suicide

    To those who loved it, it was called the “Third Reich”.

  398. @Malla

    No, there is a tiny minority that is Caucasian. You’re shilling for Chinese, Korean, Japanese women.

    • Replies: @Malla
  399. @Corvinus

    Corvinus – ancient Egypt and ancient India are important to the West. They built two great civilizations which still have meaning and value for the West today. They were Caucasian and Aryan before they mixed with blacks/Asians. We must learn from this.

    As to the Bible, and man being in God’s image, well a new interpretation of these lines is needed. IQ is the measure of man. And this measure reveals certain physical patterns.

    I am still a Christian and follow Christian rules. However, I am also grateful that I was born Caucasian, healthy and with an IQ of 90+. This is the new trinity for the West. This new trinity will help us in our spiritual growth and the salvation of the West. I thank God for these gifts and the extra bonus of being born in the USA.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Corvinus
  400. Ron Unz says:
    @attilathehen

    However, I am also grateful that I was born Caucasian, healthy and with an IQ of 90+.

    Well, unlike all sorts of “Internet Trolls” you seem a very honest and sincere person. Based on all of your comments, I fully agree that you probably have an IQ of about 91…

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  401. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @JJ

    Hong Kong was returned to China although the Hong Kong island was permanently ceded to the UK by Qing China.

    No, its on 100yrs lease term. Margaret wet dream of unsinkable permanent aircraft carrier next door, Deng showed her middle finger.

    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  402. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Flaw: different people having different mores doesn’t tell you about whether said mores are good, bad, or neither.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  403. DB Cooper says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “When Mao stepped onto the world stage in 1945 his country was convulsed by civil war, Russia had taken Mongolia and a piece of Xinjiang, Japan still occupied three northern provinces, Britain had taken Hong Kong, Portugal Macau, France pieces of Shanghai, Germany Tsingtao, and America dominated the opium trade. ”

    North, south and east, you forgot west. In the west India took a piece of South Tibet, which increases to the whole of South Tibet when India grabbed Tawang in 1951. In 1987 India made South Tibet an Indian state and named it Arunachal Pradesh.

  404. DB Cooper says:
    @Anon

    Hong Kong was ceded to Britain in three separate treaties. The first one Treaty of Nanking ceded the Hong Kong island to Britain in perpetuity. The 99 years lease you referred to is from the subsequent treaties regarding the ‘New Territories’.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
  405. TT says:
    @renfro

    Why single out China but not other countries? Many eat dog meat as delicacy, its a long traditional winter tonic in TCM.

    Many Koreans, Aseans eat dog meats, go nuke them. This winter Olympics some shops refused to temporary remove dog meat from their menu to avoid embarrassment. They hang dog carcass with skin stripped like a cow in all shop fronts. I didn’t accept offer to try.

    Do you eat pork? Common, pigs have been proven more intelligent than dogs, but how you feast on them without slightest feel? Juz bcos msm don’t show you how they are been treated in farm. And you didn’t keep pig as pet, they are great pets imo.

    Cow is as intelligent, will cry before been slaughter. Some pictures show they knee down to Sri Lankan monks after been save from butcher. Hindu will go riot massacre Muslims if anyone kill a cow in some part of India.

    You eat goose? They are as smart & make good guards in borders…long list to go. Don’t fix your little value on others long history.

    Do you nude Fukus for creating ISIS cannibals that eat human liver or heart? Cut your hypocrisy.

    Be a vegan & start harass all non vegan huh? All animals suffer greatly for our food, minimize if can’t avoid, that’s real message we should propagate.

    • Replies: @Malla
  406. TT says:
    @denk

    So am i. Haven’t receive a single cents from Xi & Putin yet, you got yours? Gonna switch side to Yankee to pay for my mobile data, no broadband in 3rd world.

    ROFLMAO means?

    • Replies: @denk
  407. TT says:
    @in the middle

    You can’t, your capitalism already sold your country long time ago. Your marrow are sucked dried. Go into any shop or Walmart, you know…. not juz china make, its wherever cheap labour exist, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Indonesia,…

    You won’t want pay a saggy thin cheap Tees made in US for $20 when a China good one goes for $3. Soon you have to take C919 China plane for budget fair i guaranteed you. Hhhhhhh

  408. @Wizard of Oz

    Nope open your narrow ethnocentric mind a bit and read John Derbyshire fairly. I’ve known him for 20 years and he’s no China hater.

    The problem is that if you oppose China’s several millennia-long effort to bring All Under Heaven into the Chinese realm, one annexation at a time, as a result of the fairly consistent quest of China’s rulers for historical immortality, you are a China hater. White, black, yellow or brown, the entire world is destined to be Chinese. The need for war will be obviated once benevolent Chinese rule is established around the globe. Why would one province fight another?

    • Replies: @TT
    , @Malla
  409. TT says:
    @in the middle

    Another 20yrs you will eat China food only when Monsanto killed all your fertile lands and seeds, pesticides & Shale gas frackling pollute all your water(Nestle will sell you bottled from Amazon largest water reserved). If you can’t beat them, join them. Migrate… before too late when whitish lost all advantage(IQ already drop below most)

    Xi has already embarked on Go Organics campaign. see Cuba? Multiply 1000000x.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  410. TT says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Ok. That’s why his Chinese wife yet to bite off his d***. But those books he & Ron recommended are biased rubbish whining on old China bullock carts when their rocket already taken off, waste my time.

  411. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @attilathehen

    What IQ you are talking kid?

    Your average Indian iq is 85 gone case, matured countries White European & US are 90+. Subpar. Developing EAsians are over 100, with much larger population and many illiterate to be upgraded, hence big potential for another 10~20 increase. 90 vs 120. Bye bye… Gone with the wind, malla is singing……

    wipe clean your ass and prepare your white uniforms to cut my toe nails like you did for British Raj.

  412. TT says:
    @Malla

    Thks Malla & Denk. How about pasting pics from jpeg file directly, i see Daniel Cheah & others did. Cut & paste don’t work.

    Late to see this page, was wonder where you 2 perfect soulmates have gone to so quiet when i troll for putin in another. Many new articles don’t appear in my unz.com page until later, bcos im using mobile page?

    • Replies: @denk
  413. @Ron Unz

    Wrong Ron Unz. But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and believe it. I know Jews think they are the smartest tribe ever. Not.

    • Replies: @Anon
  414. @Anon

    “…developing EAsians,” that’s an oxymoron. There’s nothing to develop. They hit their peak and are sliding down the hill. The only intelligent Asians are the Japanese. And it took the West to show them how to use the few brains they have.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Malla
  415. TT says:
    @Johann Ricke

    China’s several millennia-long effort to bring All Under Heaven into the Chinese realm, one annexation at a time, as a result of the fairly consistent quest of China’s rulers for historical immortality, you are a China hater.

    I believe China 天下 All under Heaven only restrict to their own 中原Middle Kingdom, the rest including southern Guangzhou, Tibet, Xinjiang are classified uncivilized barbarians to be at most, associated as vassal. But they are lucky to fall into China hands due to history, so automatically get the free fast speed high rail links to good life. We have to pay for it & work hard to be their vassal for some bread scums.

    White, black, yellow or brown, the entire world is destined to be Chinese. The need for war will be obviated once benevolent Chinese rule is established around the globe. Why would one province fight another?

    Chinese are too clever to avoid this. Like Duke of Qin said, you benevolently colonized these lesser people, they gonna flood your rich countries like what USEU facing now. Leave them alone, non interference, help them grow fat in economy to fuel your trade.

  416. @Anon

    yea, and my original comment was telling renfro to stop hating because of someone’s preference in meat :)

    you need to follow the comment chain anon :)

  417. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @attilathehen

    Ron has been really kind on you, be grateful.

    90.1 is at best.

    Jews are proven smart, at least in my circle. But they drive you crazy with their persistent way to get what they want, so jews wife, No Way. Wife is for good slave companion, not master.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  418. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @attilathehen

    Oxymoron is commenting on who? Be realistic, you come UNZ is to pick up better ideas, not puke narcissistic rubbish. Go some white nationalism or Indian sites to graze.

    Asians have large population of old illiterate or less educated. They will soon die, replace by new generation getting ever better education in 20yrs time. Not just China, but Vietnam 100M, Asean 300M. They are future Singapore or HK by hundreds times.

    West are developed to full, no more room to further educate, you can’t have everyone make a scientist. Declination is sure with people shunting STEM for non productive finance, influx of low grade migrants, self destruction policies in declining education system, wars, hollow out industries, under funded health care…

    Sorry, too complex for oxymoron 90.1 IQ understanding. I strongly doubt you have inflate it, 85 is obvious, don’t pretend to be whitish European although North Indian is quite fair.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  419. denk says:
    @TT

    So am i. Haven’t receive a single cents from Xi & Putin yet, you got yours?

    Many murkkan dumb fucks actually call me ‘wumao’ , those [email protected]#$%^!

    FOFLMAO = rolling on the floor laughing my ass off !

  420. denk says:
    @TT

    cant copy an image and paste ,
    must copy its url,

    I use searx.me as example cuz google deprive us of that ‘privilege’ now,”

    for example if you search ‘deputy sheriff’ in searx.me then
    click on the image tag on top, you get pages of pics,

    click on the image you want,
    click on the ‘get image’ button below,’
    copy url,
    paste into your comment.,
    RU will do the rest !

    • Replies: @denk
  421. denk says:
    @denk

    url is the link inside the address bar on top

  422. Malla says:
    @Anon

    like you did for British Raj.

    What are you smoking? Attilathehen is White American, not Indian.

  423. Malla says:
    @Anon

    White European & US are 90+. Subpar

    Wait! Germany, Austria, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland & Italy outscore China in IQ tests. Great Britain and New Zealand score equal.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    , @Anon
  424. @Anon

    I’m not North Indian. But again you reveal yourself. The Jews you know are smart. I’ve known lots of Jews. Some are smart. Most are average. You’re “white-knighting” Asians again. “Wife is for good slave companion…,” did you import an Asian woman like Derbyshire?

    • Replies: @Anon
  425. Malla says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Oh please,
    It were the KMT who actually fought the Japanese Empire Army (no easy feat) losing 3 million of their best men while the Commies under Mao built up their strength in the countryside. And do not forget that Western banking elites back stabbed the KMT in favour of the Communists.

    https://thediplomat.com/2014/09/the-ccp-didnt-fight-imperial-japan-the-kmt-did/

    The CCP Didn’t Fight Imperial Japan; the KMT Did
    While the KMT military defended China against Japan during WWII, the CCP built up strength for the civil war.

    “(Japan) doesn’t have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because had Imperial Japan did not start the war of invasion, how could we communist became mighty powerful? How could we stage the coup d’état? How could we defeat Chiang Kai Shek? How are we going to pay back you guys? No, we do not want your war reparations!”
    Mao Zedong telling the Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei in Nanjing, 1972 to take back his apology

    Chairman Mao praising Japan’s contribution to his war effort conversation with American journalist Edgar Snow, 1970
    “Those Japanese were real good. Without Japanese’s help, China’s [Communist] revolution would not have suceeded. I said the same thing to a Japanese, a capitalist, by the name of nanxiang sanlang(?).He kept on saying: ‘Sorry, we did invade China’ I said to him: ‘Don’t say that, on the contrary, Japanese helped us (Communist) in a big way’, especially Japanese warlords and the Japanese Emperor.”

    Mao Zedong’s communists were on the retreat across China from the Republic of China until Japan’s timely intervention saved him. The Republic of China’s military suffered over 3 million casualties from their best trained and equipped units fighting Japan, as well as over 20 million civilian deaths.

    The Republic of China was obligated (even though Chiang Kai Shek stalled as long as he could as he considered other Chinese greater threat than the Japanese Empire) to defend her civilians against invaders which meant pitched battles in urban environments against the brunt of Japanese mechanized forces, while Mao Zedong could afford to retreat into the countryside and fight a guerrilla war ambushing small groups of Japanese soldiers.

    By the time the Japanese Empire was defeated, Mao had regained his strength (thousands of Japanese who surrendered were even recruited to Mao’s forces) and finished off the weakened Republic.

    And then Mao invited some Japanese “war criminals” over to mainland China

    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/08/15/national/to-normalize-ties-mao-turned-to-war-criminal/#.Uxw-5PmSx8E

    Mao is known to have said in 1956 that had the Japanese army not come to China, the Chinese Communist Party would still be in remote areas and unable to visit Beijing to watch Beijing opera, a comment taken to mean he did not completely reject Japan’s wartime militarism.

    Mao was too busy making business deals with Japanese to bother condemning them for the war, and for him his main enemy was always the Republic of China (That was now holed up in Taipei and the jungles of Burma, trying to get the US to back a counter-invasion of the mainland). Getting Japan to acknowledge the PRC over the RoC was a higher priority for him.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  426. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    They hit their peak and are sliding down the hill.

    Sliding Down the hill? Really. China is developing like crazy and will probably develop much further. That is why China does not want a war, they do not need one unlike the American deep state needs wars.

  427. Malla says:
    @Johann Ricke

    White, black, yellow or brown, the entire world is destined to be Chinese.

    The Chinese are not dumb to try Hannification of dark Caucasian browns and blacks. The Chinese were smart to Hannify racially similar Mongoloids living in the land of China. In some cases they did Hannify South East Asian like populations in the South and Mongoloid Caucasoid hybrid populations (mixed with Tocharians) in the North West, but mostly on racially similar people. Even the Koreans remained a distinct culture.

    This Anglicization, Frankization, Dutchization process on non Whites is the crap Whites tried on populations in Africa, Indian subcontinent etc…. thanks partly to the universality of Christian ideology and are today paying the price. A lot of angry pissed off ungrateful darkies. The darkies should have been left to their primitive or despotic states. If the Japanese would have attempted the same in India or the Middle East, they would be suffering too today.

    Even the Russians are paying for Russification of Muslim Stans, there are now millions of muslims in Moscow, but even the Russified non White peoples had some geographical continuity with the Russian Slavs.

  428. @Malla

    Thanks Malla. Once again, these “anon” characters out themselves. My suspicion is that most are Jews, gentiles/Jews with Asians wives, RCC cucks.

    I consistently lay out facts and they come back with the most bizarre attacks. Most of the comments are simple and ignore facts. I always say “cherchez la femme/le homme/la famille” and you will get the measure of the person. Ron Unz is Jewish and I laugh at the anti-Semitisim of many of the commentators. Yet, when I ask them what we should do with the Jews, they never give me an answer. I support Israel because that is where Jews belong. I read the articles and comments on several other websites, from AmRen to the Daily Stormer. Anytime someone blames the Jews for everything, that’s a red flag. Yes, the Jews do cause problems, but only because the cuck Caucasian RCC/Zioevangizer/gentile Freemason male lets him get away with it. I state IQ is the most objective, measurable reality there is and they say I’m subpar. The answers to the West’s problems are simple: separation of the blacks/Asians/Jews from the Caucasian/Europeans.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Wizard of Oz
  429. @TT

    Your “Xi has already embarked….” suggests an autodidact’s blindspot. It is a commonplace truism of historians (and I recommend to you Eric Jones “The European Miracle”) that one of the reasons that China did not make the great leap from the Malthusian to the modern age on its own despite its many intelligent industrious people and resources was its centralism. As recently as Mao huge mistakes resulted from excessive centralised exercise of power. Mind you the whole world has benefitef from the one child policy even though it may have been too harsh and too comprehensive for the Chinese people (though not I think disastrous – indeed the worst problem may be having to decide how to treat a few million subcontinenttal aged care workers: couldn’t be worse than the Arab model..)

    • Replies: @TT
  430. @Anon

    Why do you choose (I pay you the compliment of accepting that you choose) to sound both silly and offensive at the same time? Unless you are a very warped or inadequate personality you could not possibly be an ethnically East Asian person with any feeling of self esteem as such or any standing in your adopted environment. So… A silly person wanting to spoil the conversation of his betters? The figures you quote are the complete proof that you are not a person to be taken seriously other than as a troll who, unfortunately, cannot be barred.

    • Replies: @Anon
  431. Malla says:
    @TT

    Common, pigs have been proven more intelligent than dogs, but how you feast on them without slightest feel? Juz bcos msm don’t show you how they are been treated in farm. And you didn’t keep pig as pet, they are great pets imo.

    Pigs can be good pets but cannot be Man’s best friends like Canines. The connection between dogs and humans is special and unique in nature. Do you come home from work to have a fat piggie jump on your lap and lick your face and show you love? Some do but it is not common.

    https://phys.org/news/2016-03-explores-prehistoric-relationship-humans-dogs.html

    Researcher explores close prehistoric relationship between humans and dogs
    From

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/200904/why-are-humans-and-dogs-so-good-living-together

    Why are humans and dogs so good at living together?

    Domesticating each other?
    Dogs were the first domestic animal with whom we developed a close association. Mitochondrial DNA research suggests that most domestic dogs have been genetically separate from wolves for at least 100,000 years so that we have associated with dogs for as long as we have been around as a species (Homo sapiens). Indeed, some enthusiasts, including Colin Groves of the Australian National University, in Canberra, believe that our success as a species is partly due to help from dogs (3).

    According to Groves: “The human-dog relationship amounts to a very long lasting symbiosis. Dogs acted as human’s alarm systems, trackers, and hunting aides, garbage disposal facilities, hot water bottles, and children’s guardians and playmates. Humans provided dogs with food and security. The relationship was stable over 100,000 years or so, and intensified in the Holocene into mutual domestication. Humans domesticated dogs and dogs domesticated humans.”

    Relying on dogs to hear the approach of danger and to sniff out the scent of prey animals, our ancestors experienced a decline in these sensory abilities compared to other primates. This conclusion is confirmed by shrinkage of brain regions devoted to these senses (the olfactory bulb and lateral geniculate body).

    From

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-dogs-stole-our-hearts

    If you think of your dog as your “fur baby,” science has your back. New research shows that when our canine pals stare into our eyes, they activate the same hormonal response that bonds us to human infants.

    …snip….

    Kikusui and his colleagues convinced 30 of their friends and neighbors to bring their pets into his lab. They also found and reached out to a few people who were raising wolves as pets. When each owner brought his or her animal into the lab, the researchers collected urine from both and then asked the owners to interact with their animal in a room together for 30 minutes. During this time, the owners typically petted their animals and talked to them. Dogs and their owners also gazed into each other’s eyes, some for a total of a couple of minutes, some for just a few seconds. (The wolves, not surprisingly, didn’t make much eye contact with their owners.) After the time was up, the team took urine samples again.

    …snip…

    The results suggest that human-dog interactions elicit the same type of oxytocin positive feedback loop as seen between mothers and their infants, the team reports online today in Science. And that, in turn, may explain why we feel so close to our dogs, and vice versa.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @TT
  432. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    The answers to the West’s problems are simple: separation of the blacks/Asians/Jews from the Caucasian/Europeans.

    Yup. The only solution.

  433. @attilathehen

    “I consistently lay out facts” but so often they aren’t even factoids but mere, sometimes eccentric, expressions of personsl opinion – like your view of who is ugly! Even your statement about IQ being the most objective measurable reality is amateurish or careless, certainly unsophisticated and not accurate except perhaps on Humpty Dumpty terms. E.g. there are many different IQ tests that correlate quite well but produce somewhat different scores and produce different scores even on the same tests at different times. Let’s just look at your simple “most” a typical overstatement by your fact-telling self. When testing of IQs can give a range of 110 to 140 for a single individual – not even to rely on a case I know where it was 183 and 137 – how does the “objectivity” of IQ testing stand up against measurement of height or weight – or population suze or age come to think of it? And you may care to consider how rapidly the average IQs of the (Western) educated classes have been declining since family planning took off 150 years ago. That last needs elaboration as I would like to think you understand.

  434. @Malla

    Can you provide citations for your Mao quotes, please? They sound bogus.

    • Replies: @Malla
  435. @Malla

    the lower caste (whose behavior is a combination of gypsies and blacks )

    Is there any proof this is true? Where’s the evidence that lower-caste and upper-caste Indians significantly vary in IQ?

    In 1966, Chopra looked at test scores and grades by caste. Here’s what he found among Indian castes.

    Grades
    Brahmin: 242.6
    Kshatriya: 247.5
    Vaishya: 259
    Shudra: 241.5
    India Average: 241.9

    Cognitive test scores
    Brahmin: 38.8
    Kshatriya: 39.4
    Vaishya: 41.8
    Shudra: 35.7
    India Average: 38.6

    Das and Khurana found that socioeconomic status was the most important variable impacting test scores. Caste differences were not significant on non-verbal tests like Ravens, but were larger on verbal tests.

    Brahmins don’t seem to constitute any sort of cognitively gifted group of individuals. Their advantages derive from their greater wealth, not natural ability.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Wizard of Oz
  436. Malla says:
    @Malla

    https://gnosticwarrior.com/dogs-human-dna.html

    Did you know dogs have human DNA?

    Here is an excerpt from National Geographic that helps explain this for you:
    Scientists have completed a rough sketch of the canine genome. The results may explain why dogs are humans’ best friend: Their genes are similar.
    “Dogs suffer from more than 350 genetic disorders, many of which resemble human conditions,” said Ewen Kirkness, a molecular biologist at the Institute for Genomic Research in Rockville, Maryland who led the research. “The genes responsible for these are probably constant to humans and dogs.”
    The sequencing indicates that dog and human genomes are more similar to each other than either is to the mouse, though it appears the dog lineage diverged first from the common ancestor.

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/09/0925_030925_doggenes.html

    Human, Dog Genomes Similar, Study Finds

    Dogs are important to researchers because they can be used as biomedical models for understanding human diseases. The top ten diseases among purebred dogs include several that afflict humans, including cancer, epilepsy, heart disease, allergy, retinal disease and cataracts.

    • Replies: @Lin
  437. Malla says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    You can get more info here

    http://u.osu.edu/mclc/2016/07/02/truth-of-mao-zedongs-collusion-with-the-japanese-army-1/

    Truth of Mao Zedong’s Collusion with the Japanese Army (1)

    On the contrary, during the Sino-Japanese War, Mao Zedong concentrated his efforts on conspiring with the Japanese army to weaken the KMT forces. He planted communist spies such as Pan Hannian in the Japanese Foreign Ministry’s local agency Maison Iwai and sold KMT military intelligence obtained from the National Government in Chongqing through the KMT-CPC Cooperation to the Japanese at a high price, creating an environment in which it was easy for the Japanese military to deal blows to the KMT forces.

    And that is not all.

    Mao Zedong sent Communist spies to make direct contact with the Japanese army, even going as far as to propose a truce between the CPC forces and the Japanese army.

    This paper compares and contrasts Japanese sources, such as Memories of Shanghai, the memoir of Iwai Eiichi, and Chinese sources to examine questions such as “what did Mao Zedong do during the Sino-Japanese War?” and “how did the CPC forces grow stronger?”

    ..snip….

    After the creation of the PRC, Mao Zedong frequently recruited generals from the former Imperial Japanese Army. The reason was that these generals did, in fact, collaborate as military advisors, for example, Okamura Yasuji from the former Japanese Imperial Army (former general, former commander-in-chief of the China Expeditionary Army) established the Paidan (White Team) to realize the return to mainland China of Chiang Kai-shek who had fled to Taiwan. And so Mao Zedong tried to recruit Okamura to draw him over to his own side at any cost, but Okamura refused. And so Endo Saburo (former Lieutenant General) was singled out. It was in 1956, the year after Pan Hannian was imprisoned, that Mao Zedong met with Endo Saburo. Those who knew directly that Mao Zedong had conspired with the Japanese army were no longer around.

    When Mao Zedong met former members of the Imperial Japanese Army or leftwing Japanese, he said over and over again in many different ways that he was grateful to the Imperial Japanese Army (see Mao Zedong on Diplomacy for further details).

    AS FAR AS THE QUOTES
    From

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/13/are-japan-and-china-really-ancient-enemies-or-is-this-something-much-newer/?utm_term=.f03a48b58c6e

    The real roots of China-Japan tensions – Washington Post

    Responding to Tanaka’s apology for what Japan had done during the war, Mao answered that there was absolutely no need to apologize. After all, he said, without the Japanese invasion, the Communist revolution would never have succeeded.

    Well it seems Japan always wanted good relationships with China from the very onset of the PRC. It is only the USA which gets in the way.

    From

    https://www.iiss.org/en/iiss%20voices/blogsections/iiss-voices-2013-1e35/july-2013-a513/china-japan-fixing-be66

    William Choong: Fixing Japan–China relations

    When Mao Zedong met Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka in 1972, Mao expressed his views with characteristic irony. ‘We must express our gratitude to Japan. If Japan didn’t invade China, we could have never achieved the cooperation between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party. We could have never developed and eventually taken political power for ourselves.’ The Communist revolution, Mao said in half-jest, would never have happened without Japan’s invasion of China.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  438. Malla says:
    @attilathehen

    No, there is a tiny minority that is Caucasian.

    A tiny minority looks pure White but are not White. All are mixed today.

    Check this out

    There are no pure Europeans (orange bands in the above pic) in the Indian subcontinent anymore. All mixed up, even brahmins. But Brahmins tend to have more Euro in them, no doubt.

  439. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Malla

    What are you smoking? Attilathehen is White American, not Indian.

    Wait! Germany, Austria, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland & Italy outscore China in IQ tests. Great Britain and New Zealand score equal.

    So what crack did you give these European to booster their IQ? Sell me some.

    Sorry for mistaken Attila-the-hen as IQ81 Indian, he is self declared white Caucasian in US of IQ90.++ but talk like 81. Ron is generous to give him 91 and he still grumble.

    Let’s look at facts:don’t fool ourselves, otherwise you deserve to be in shithole. Now UK students prefer China mathematics teachers.

    China consistently IQ104~105, rank 3rd~4th in every test. Will accelerate higher as education improved with better economy, more single child grown up. Every year 20M new baby, 1M new engineer.

    No.1 IQ HK & SG are their descendants of peasant class as someone pointed out. They are No1 in PISA, Mathematics, Science, Reading,… China can’t go worst than their peasant class given similar education.

    Not single European country is in top10 for 10yrs ave studies. US, Fr, Austr are all below 100 Subpar. don’t distort IQ test result just to make your US master happy. Now he is patting your head, good malla, thanks malla…

    US IQ98, rank26. Will accelerate lower as more illegal immigrants joining, more skip STEM, poverty, health deteriorate, opiod abuse….

    India IQ81, on par with Zimbabwe & Saudi Arabia. Sorry, My mistake to say its 85. Under Modi, good chance to reach Tanzania 71.

    https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

    [MORE]

    The displayed IQ was averaged out of the results of 9 international studies and compared to the average income and government expenditures on education for the years 1990 to 2010.

    Rank  Country IQ Ø Income Ø Daily max
    temperature

    1 Singapore 108 26,105 $ 31.5 °C
    2 Hong Kong 108 26,057 $ 26.1 °C
    3 Taiwan 106   27.1 °C
    4 South Korea 106 14,077 $ 18.2 °C
    5 Japan 105 37,244 $ 19.7 °C
    6 China 104 1,427 $ 19.4 °C
    7 Switzerland 102 50,649 $ 12.7 °C
    8 Netherlands 102 34,055 $ 14.3 °C
    9 North Korea 102   14.9 °C
    10 Macau 101 21,205 $ 25.8 °C

    11 Iceland 101 35,419 $ 7.9 °C
    12 Finland 101 31,695 $ 8.0 °C
    13 Canada 101 27,898 $ 7.4 °C
    14 Belgium 100 31,328 $ 14.4 °C
    15 Germany 100 31,397 $ 13.5 °C
    16 United Kingdom 100 31,520 $ 12.8 °C
    17 Austria 100 32,565 $ 12.9 °C
    18 New Zealand 100 18,922 $ 17.5 °C
    19 Norway 99 49,360 $ 8.9 °C
    20 Sweden 99 36,848 $ 9.5 °C
    21 Luxembourg 99 55,544 $ 13.8 °C
    22 Denmark 99 39,857 $ 11.9 °C
    23 Czech Republic 99 9,260 $ 12.1 °C
    24 Estonia 99 9,552 $ 10.0 °C
    25 Australia 99 26,122 $ 24.4 °C
    26 France 98 30,037 $ 16.6 °C
    27 United States 98 37,232 $ 18.7 °C
    28 Hungary 98 7,404 $ 16.0 °C
    29 Mongolia 98 871 $ 8.0 °C
    30 Malta 97 12,624 $ 23.1 °C
    31 Italy 97 26,236 $ 18.2 °C
    32 Latvia 97 6,954 $ 10.5 °C
    33 Slovakia 97 9,319 $ 14.9 °C
    34 Spain 97 20,215 $ 21.0 °C
    35 Slovenia 97 16,389 $ 15.3 °C
    36 Poland 97 6,111 $ 13.1 °C
    37 Russia 96 4,103 $ 8.7 °C
    38 Moldova 95 765 $ 16.0 °C
    39 Croatia 95 8,676 $ 18.2 °C
    40 Ukraine 95 1,452 $ 14.0 °C
    41 Portugal 95 14,529 $ 21.2 °C
    42 Ireland 94 29,250 $ 13.2 °C
    43 Vietnam 94 515 $ 29.2 °C
    44 Israel 94 19,693 $ 26.3 °C
    45 Belarus 93 2,514 $ 11.5 °C
    46 Malaysia 93 4,671 $ 31.9 °C
    47 Lithuania 93 6,731 $ 11.4 °C
    48 Armenia 92 1,305 $ 16.9 °C
    49 Georgia 92 1,241 $ 19.9 °C
    50 Kazakhstan 92 2,768 $ 13.0 °C
    51 Greece 92 17,254 $ 22.4 °C
    52 Bulgaria 91 2,795 $ 17.7 °C
    53 Macedonia 91 2,505 $ 18.5 °C
    54 Argentina 90 6,499 $ 23.8 °C
    55 Romania 90 3,364 $ 15.0 °C
    56 Turkey 89 5,055 $ 19.7 °C
    57 Thailand 89 2,663 $ 32.8 °C
    58 Serbia 89 3,393 $ 18.1 °C
    59 Chile 89 5,805 $ 17.4 °C
    60 Cambodia 88 431 $ 33.4 °C
    61 Laos 88 431 $ 32.0 °C
    62 Mauritius 87 4,633 $ 26.3 °C
    63 Costa Rica 86 4,098 $ 28.9 °C
    64 Philippines 86 1,337 $ 31.3 °C
    65 Mexico 86 6,282 $ 29.2 °C
    66 Iraq 86 3,306 $ 32.3 °C
    67 Venezuela 85 4,812 $ 31.6 °C
    68 Bolivia 85 1,047 $ 25.1 °C
    69 Cuba 84 3,275 $ 29.8 °C
    70 Iran 84 2,843 $ 23.6 °C
    71 Montenegro 84 4,514 $ 19.2 °C
    72 Albania 84 1,765 $ 22.5 °C
    73 Indonesia 84 1,113 $ 31.7 °C
    74 Papua New Guinea 83 915 $ 30.2 °C
    75 Egypt 83 1,264 $ 30.1 °C
    76 Ecuador 83 2,401 $ 24.5 °C
    77 Burma 83 390 $ 32.1 °C
    78 Brazil 83 4,547 $ 30.6 °C
    79 United Arab Emirates 83 36,044 $ 34.4 °C
    80 Paraguay 83 1,684 $ 28.8 °C
    81 Pakistan 82 624 $ 31.5 °C
    82 Algeria 82 2,313 $ 24.9 °C
    83 Dominican Republic 82 2,767 $ 32.4 °C
    84 Peru 82 2,389 $ 25.8 °C
    85 Syria 82 1,144 $ 26.2 °C
    86 Colombia 82 2,759 $ 28.3 °C
    87 Morocco 82 1,744 $ 24.0 °C
    88 Bosnia and Herzegovina 82 2,599 $ 18.5 °C
    89 India 81 577 $ 29.8 °C
    90 Saudi Arabia 81 10,742 $ 32.5 °C
    91 Tunisia 81 2,549 $ 25.2 °C
    92 Afghanistan 80 340 $ 24.3 °C
    93 Sri Lanka 79 1,061 $ 28.9 °C
    94 Madagascar 79 279 $ 28.4 °C
    95 Qatar 78 54,704 $ 33.7 °C
    96 Bangladesh 77 459 $ 30.7 °C
    97 Nepal 77 280 $ 25.5 °C
    98 Kenya 71 486 $ 28.8 °C
    99 Tanzania 71 331 $ 29.9 °C
    100 Ivory Coast 71 798 $ 32.0 °C

    https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country#

    Rank Country IQ

    1 Hong Kong 108
    1 Singapore 108
    2 South Korea 106
    3 Japan 105
    3 China 105
    4 Taiwan 104
    5 Italy 102

    6 Iceland 101
    6 Mongolia 101
    6 Switzerland 101
    7 Austria 100
    7 Luxembourg 100
    7 Netherlands 100
    7 Norway 100
    7 United Kingdom 100
    8 Belgium 99
    8 Canada 99
    8 Estonia 99
    8 Finland 99
    8 Germany 99
    8 Poland 99
    8 Sweden 99
    9 Andorra 98
    9 Australia 98
    9 Czech Republic 98
    9 Denmark 98
    9 France 98
    9 Hungary 98
    9 Latvia 98
    9 Spain 98
    9 United States 98
    10 Belarus 97
    10 Malta 97
    10 Russia 97
    10 Ukraine 97
    11 Moldova 96
    11 Slovakia 96
    11 Slovenia 96
    11 Uruguay 96
    12 Israel 95
    12 Portugal 95
    13 Armenia 94
    13 Georgia 94
    13 Kazakhstan 94
    13 Romania 94
    13 Vietnam 94
    14 Argentina 93
    14 Bulgaria 93
    15 Greece 92
    15 Ireland 92
    15 Malaysia 92
    16 Brunei 91
    16 Cambodia 91
    16 Cyprus 91
    16 Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia 91
    16 Lithuania 91
    16 Sierra Leone 91
    16 Thailand 91
    17 Albania 90
    17 Bosnia and Herzegovina 90
    17 Chile 90
    17 Croatia 90
    17 Kyrgyzstan 90
    17 Turkey 90
    18 Costa Rica 89
    18 Laos 89
    18 Mauritius 89
    18 Serbia 89
    18 Suriname 89
    19 Ecuador 88
    19 Mexico 88
    19 Samoa 88
    20 Azerbaijan 87
    20 Bolivia 87
    20 Nauru 87
    20 Guyana 87
    20 Indonesia 87
    20 Iraq 87
    20 Myanmar 87
    20 Tajikistan 87
    20 Turkmenistan 87
    20 Uzbekistan 87
    21 Kuwait 86
    21 Philippines 86
    21 Seychelles 86
    21 Tonga 86
    22 Cuba 85
    22 Eritrea 85
    22 Fiji 85
    22 Kiribati 85
    22 Peru 85
    22 Trinidad and Tobago 85
    22 Yemen 85
    23 Afghanistan 84
    23 The Bahamas 84
    23 Belize 84
    23 Colombia 84
    23 Iran 84
    23 Jordan 84
    23 Marshall Islands 84
    23 Micronesia 84
    23 Morocco 84
    23 Nigeria 84
    23 Pakistan 84
    23 Panama 84
    23 Paraguay 84
    23 Saudi Arabia 84
    23 Solomon Islands 84
    23 Uganda 84
    23 United Arab Emirates 84
    23 Vanuatu 84
    23 Venezuela 84
    24 Algeria 83
    24 Bahrain 83
    24 Libya 83
    24 Oman 83
    24 Papua New Guinea 83
    24 Syria 83
    24 Tunisia 83
    25 Bangladesh 82
    25 Dominican Republic 82
    25 India 82
    25 Lebanon 82
    25 Madagascar 82
    25 Zimbabwe 82

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @JohnnyWalker123
  440. TT says:
    @Malla

    I kept dogs, from German Shepard to poodle and wild mongrels. You don’t understand if you never have.

    Mongrel is the smartest, obedient, loyal and eat whatever always ready to serve you. Shepard… better don’t jump on my lap, expensive to keep…Poodle forget it, no food no friend. Vet always burn a hole in my pocket when they sick or infested with ticks.

    You sure pigs don’t look you in the eyes deeply, lick you gently and cuddle on your foot? Some kept piggy as pets or to snoke out expensive mushrooms(forget the name), they eat whatever and are juz as gd as mongrel, when you decide its fat enough for food, no one threaten to nuke you.

  441. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @attilathehen

    I didn’t import a Asian wife, i dumped her like a poison snake.

    You are right, My Jewish friend just corrected me, not all jews are smart, visit Israel you will see plenty of fool. Those in US are the better qualified one. Same for other ethnics.

    Sorry for trolling you, little evil inside me like to poke fun sometime. Don’t boast IQ when we are on losing side, Shssss…else all know we are retard subpar. ;)

  442. TT says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Sorry forget this.

    long-term greedy, not short-term greedy

    This make me chuckle too…but he got a good point. I will grade him A for out of box thinking, reminding of what i read:

    美国人四处强剪别人的羊毛,
    中国人四处自己养羊剪不完。
    Literally means
    Murkans shear others sheep fur by force everywhere(short term greed)
    Chinese raise sheeps for endless supply everywhere(long term greed)

    The West can learn something from this, instead of making war everywhere to grab others resource, help others to develop, hence growing their market for more trade.

    Daniel, i always find your comments exceptional knowledgeable, factual, non confrontation and persuasive. Ron should consider invite you to be one blogger here for Chinese matter. I believe even our whitish friends here will findgreat pleasure in your good informative writing.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  443. Malla says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Hmmm this is interesting and a bit surprising. Really does put these tests into question. Were they peer reviewed?
    That is because in India there are quotas in jobs and education for lower caste populations (SCs and STs) and even then they are under performing groups. And these reservations are going on for decades.

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/services/education/iits-to-offer-relaxation-to-disabled-at-par-with-scs-sts/articleshow/4350488.cms

    IITs to offer relaxation to disabled at par with SCs, STs

    “”The physically disabled candidates will get same relaxation as that is available to candidates belonging to SC/ST categories. ”

    Now the IITs in India are some of the hardest institutes to get in, there is this entrance exam which millions give and only a few are selected. For lower castes, the cut off is lower as they have quotas to fill.

    More here

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/IITs-to-lower-cut-offs-for-SCs/STs/articleshow/3400876.cms

    IITs to lower cut-offs for SCs/STs

    Directors of the premier Indian Institutes of Technology (IIT) have decided to lower entry levels for Scheduled Caste (SC) and Scheduled Tribe (ST) students even further to cope with the issue of reserved seats falling vacant.

    But even this is not helping

    https://www.theapolitical.in/india/iits-social-inclusion-test-iits-filled-13-03-sc-reserved-seats-2016-2017

    IITs social inclusion test: Only 13.03% SC reserved seats filled up in 2016-2017

    Lower castes are still not getting through even with lower cut offs!!!

    There is something very fishy with that IQ tests. But I still believe that the IQ gap is not as huge as many upper caste Hindus make it out to be as upper caste Indians and lower caste Indians are genetically not that different to each other. it is not like White South Africans vs black South Africans. It is more like Brazil than South Africa.

    Now as far as poorer Indians behaving like gypsies, that is true.

    Lower caste Indians in Malaysia have become a Hispanic like population of gangs. Most are lower caste background.

    Same with many Indians in Canada. Many Lower caste Tamils are Gangbanging like Hispanics, in London

    Indians in Canada behaving like Gypsies

    Watch the first part, Little India in Singapore is as dirty as India. Indians take their habits everywhere.

  444. ” Two of the salesmen pushed him into the street, one at each elbow.

    “That,” he exulted, telling me the story, “was when I knew I’d found their price!””

    I had a similar experience in SF’s Chinatown in 1988, having heard all about the electronics bargains to be had there and while trying to get a lower price on a Japanese camera. They didn’t actually throw me from the shop, but made it very plain I was wasting my time and theirs.

    (importing from China direct is … interesting. A lot of people give up and let an importer take the strain along with his cut.)

  445. TT says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    If they want to try again, try Shenzhen. And talk to a Party official for goodness’ sake.

    MANILA: Around 2,000 Roman
    Catholic Filipinos protested in Manila on Saturday (Feb 24) against a push to legalise divorce, with church groups also using the “Walk for Life” march to slam President Rodrigo Duterte’s deadly drugs war.

    In Philippines, its illegal to divorce, abortion, contraception…. bcos RC said so. Crimes, drugs, poverty, HIV, terrorists are fueling by explosive population.

    80% of Philippino are RCatholic, under church bishops sway to influence election & politicians. These powerful bishops are appointed by a foreign Pope. And who select Pope & give instruction? See the matrix of power play. China will has the hell greatest nightmare to allow this most stupid Philippines nonsense to subjugate its country by foreign force.

    Some talented friends quit their successful corporate life to do China underground church missionary like Newman’s innocent friend. Bcos Chinese ethnic is less suspected by CPC religion affair. But Instruct by who, For who, For what? Didn’t China has many public churches, why need underground churches? They told its death sentence if caught, but for love of god…they disappeared.

    Someone enthusiastically passed me their godly worshipped (Jewish look)pastor CD to listen. It praise Hebrew as only God’s language every few mins, urging all followers to defend Israel otherwise Jesus can’t resurrect in Jerusalem soon….a hidden message they listen nonstop playing the CD everywhere.

    When i question them do they understand this hidden message, they don’t even know..only god words from bible they said…. already subconsciously brainwashed.

    And their gov leaders, ministers, top civil servants, judges are all attending these mega churches at prestige locations. They Christianized and Catholicized the whole government by bringing in their own believers, grant illegally hundreds of millions/lands to build mega churches.

    Flush with money, they mushroom everywhere in heartlands, flourish with modern concerts, theatre like services, mega donations drive, attracting all young & old…wielding great influence.

    When the pope visit, their country leaders knee down with absolute faith and eye balls rolling up into ecstasy.

    Can CPC leaders accept such subjugation by foreign controlled bishops?

    Newman friend is fortunate for not been prosecuted under China strictest religion subversion clause for promoting foreign religion under disguise of running a cafe.

    They complaint about schism due to China insistence to appoint own Bishop instead of letting a Western Pope decide.

    The all powerful Religion Affair Office is the only dept my influential China friends failed to bribe. Every religion activities are tightly monitor since US HQ-Falungong had given CPC a shocking heart attack involving hundred of millions people including high ranking party members.

    But my apologies that they had to experience that. I’m sure it was frustrating for them.

    Do you still feel sorry for his ignorant friend unsuccessful underground subversion activities? Try Shenzhen next time…. OMG!

    Its not juz Philippine, many Asian countries are already happening…. underground…. like the Qin dynasty opium war time West religion missionary, so much love for China.

    • Replies: @denk
  446. @JohnnyWalker123

    I would be interested in the most credible figures from properly researched IQ measures in India but I can’t help believing that 1000 years of surviving by removing other people’s fecal waste is not going to select well for high cognitive ability. When an “untouchable” rises to a position of significance I would guess that he had one or two exceptionaly pretty foremothers….

  447. @Malla

    I asked not for more unsupported allegations but for official Chinese documentation and transcripts of Mao’s meetings and direct quotes.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Anonymous
  448. Corvinus says:
    @Malla

    attilathehen has thoroughly demonstrated that he is not that bright with his repeated lies. It was not a judgement on my part, but a statement of fact. Many people have ripped this passage out of context. Jesus here is NOT warning us NOT to discern truth from error, nor does He NOT oppose offering correction.

    • Replies: @Malla
  449. Corvinus says:
    @attilathehen

    “As to the Bible, and man being in God’s image, well a new interpretation of these lines is needed. IQ is the measure of man. And this measure reveals certain physical patterns.”

    The new interpretation coming from YOU, not God.

    “I am still a Christian and follow Christian rules.”

    You are not adhering to God when YOU insist that Christians, and God Himself, must change how man is measured.

    You are a charlatan.

    • Replies: @denk
  450. TT says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Your “Xi has already embarked….” suggests an autodidact’s blindspot. …The European Miracle”) that one of the reasons that China did not make the great leap from the Malthusian to the modern age on its own despite its many intelligent industrious people and resources was its centralism. As recently as Mao huge mistakes resulted from excessive centralised exercise of power.

    I do not see why that little statement on Go Organic farming got to do with autodidact blindspot. Its a most sane way of sustainable farming, Cuba has show case to the world but not to capitalist delight.

    May be you juz want to warn about the danger of one man centralized power system.

    I have no knowledge about centralized vs decentralized power system. So i can only share my observation, taking US vs China as two most distinctive power system case. Correct me if im wrong.

    A decentralized power like US with two parties, congress, justice dept, state organs interlocking may appear to be safe system to prevent any perpetual dictator disaster. But look at what happen, a people elected Potus is totally paralyzed and humiliated with Congress & non-elected states organs like judges(that can overturn all gov decisions, or at least delayed with tedious legal process), with CIA & FBI sabotaging elected highest admin without consequence.

    Voted along party lines, politicians blocked any bills not to their advantage, even to have entire nation admin lock down with budget as a tool for ransom.

    Every Potus then tried to stack his men in every state departments & organs esp the group of highest federal judges(that can overwrite everything) regardless of their ability & experience to consolidate its future power among decentralized power. These also serve for long term party influence regardless who win the next election.

    Politicians then spent more time and energy preparing for next election and sabotaging opposing party than governing the country. Is this really a better working safe decentralized system?

    Has this decentralized system prevent any clown like Trumps & Bush from getting elected & ascending to the world highest power, Potus?

    Has this decentralized two parties system help prevent every tyranny corrupted Potus like …Clintons, Bush, Obama… heap havocs & illegal wars in entire US long history, squandering trillions, without any consequence?

    Excessive Centralized power has two faces, under a benevolent wise leader (like DengXP, Lee Kuang Yew), it work miraculously for the people welfare and nation development in best efficiency to execute long term plan. Under unwise cruel power hungry dictator(Hitler, Stalin, Mao), its uncontrollable disastrous.

    Now look at China case, Xi may appeared to has centralized the power to unprecedented level, just beneath Mao & Deng.

    In some articles, it was said that Jiang ZM was the one clinging to power, stacking his stooges in every levels, making Hu JT a sitting duck. Pres Xi refused to be controlled, was facing insurmountable challenge from Jiang’s stooges, including Politburo member, Internal Security Czar & army generals. A potential coup prevented was even mentioned last year in their newspaper. So there are much infighting to consolidate power, with Pres Xi emerge a winner.

    But CPC is no longer a one man decision system like Mao, its a one 60M(?) member party election of their best among their proven elites into finally the Politburo club, where consensus decisions are derived there. Pres Xi has certainly proven himself to party elders over few decades of working up from bottom to be selected for the most important powerful President job.

    And there is a fixed 6+6yrs term with age limit for serving in Pres & Politburo. This ensure a automatic stable leadership renewal. Any exceptional changes, like possible extension of Pres Xi two terms will subject to whole country and party members scrutinizing & approval.

    Long story short as there are too many factors involve, even Putin extension case can be studied.

    So bottom line is the leader & his team quality that matter. And imho, centralized power to a carefully elected team lead by wise leader seem to be the best most SAFE efficient system. China & Singapore (controlled democracy) in lesser term have showed the stellar indisputable result that the declining/ failed Western democratic system can take a leaf from.

  451. @TT

    Thank you for your kind words. Unz has provided an excellent service through his webzine by which I have learned a great deal, and have been further challenged to continue to learn.

    Believe it or not, I’m much more usually interested in writing about neurology. The brain is the next major frontier, along with artificial intelligence(as we know it).

    • Replies: @TT
  452. denk says:
    @Corvinus

    two ecounters with this atilla is enough for me to consign
    her into my bozo file, aka kill file.

  453. denk says:
    @Malla

    Why do Indians in Singapore /Malaysia have such a high crime rate especially in violence/sex, totally out of proportion to their ethnic ratio. ?

    • Replies: @denk
  454. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    It was not a judgement on my part, but a statement of fact.

    Nope, it is a judgement.

  455. Anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Oz, you have make very strange compliment comment. Did you follow up the discussion correctly or just shoot from the hip from impulse? My reply is for Attilathehen moronic comment:

    The Japanese, Koreans and Chinese are ugly races. Only a very very, tiny minority is attractive. The upper caste Indians of India are the only attractive Asians.

    Only an indian trying to sell his snake oil make such silly statement. All these 4 types when pretty, they are real attractive. If they are ugly, no different with blue hair fat white woman whether in US or Oz.

    I start everything with IQ, the most important, objective, measurable truth on earth. IQ measurements will lead to distinct racial differences. Racial differences lead to different “souls.” The Caucasian/European standard is the most imitated physical form in the world. Blacks/Asians cannot measure up to this standard. These are facts. You cannot deal with reality.

    All IQ test results have consistently proven Asians especially Japanese, Korean, Chinese are the highest, all above 100. Caucasian/European especially US are subpar mostly below 100, and Indians very low 81 equal to Zimbabwe.

    So lower IQ lead to distinct better racial differences, better soul? Then all our black sisters in Africa are the real most imitated physical form in the world, you whites can’t measure up. Facts? Oh yes, such moron comment you call a betters, so that reveal your highest standard.

    Now tell me what’s wrong with below IQ figures that make a worse troll to warrant your uninvited compliment, my oz brother. There is full chart for you to verify in my reply to Malla wrong claim of ranking

    [MORE]
    :

    Your average Indian iq is 85 gone case, matured countries White European & US are 90+. Subpar. Developing EAsians are over 100, with much larger population and many illiterate to be upgraded, hence big potential for another 10~20 increase. 90 vs 120. Bye bye… Gone with the wind, malla is singing……

    • Replies: @Lin
    , @Wizard of Oz
  456. Che Guava says:
    @jim jones

    That is an ignorant statement. Japan was