The Unz Review - Mobile
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 BlogviewJohn Derbyshire Archive
Then They Came for Amy Wax (Again). America’s Cultural Revolution Is Speeding Up.
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

Amy Wax, a tenured Professor of Law at the University of Pennsylvania is now being subjected to a SECOND Two Minutes Hate by our Emerging Totalitarian Left.

I should say—having some slight acquaintance with the lady—that Professor Wax is a formidable person to take on in combat, not only intellectually but also in personality. I classify her in my own mind with those feisty Jewish women in the Old Testament. I doubt Professor Wax has ever decapitated anyone, as Judith did, or hammered a tent-pin through anyone’s skull like Jael, but if you’re looking for a fight, she’ll give you one.

Amy Wax is also an extremely smart person. Her first choice of career was medicine, in pursuit of which she was awarded an M.D. cum laude by Harvard Medical School, after studies at Yale and the University of Oxford. She then switched to law, got a J.D. from Columbia, served as editor at The Columbia Law Review and ended up arguing cases before the U.S. Supreme Court.

A lot of people went looking for a fight after Wax, jointly with Professor Lawrence Alexander of the University of San Diego, published an op-ed in the Philadelphia Inquirer last August [Paying the price for breakdown of the country’s bourgeois culture, August 9, 2017]. In the op-ed Wax and Alexander spoke in favor of bourgeois values: get married, stay married, raise kids, get as much education as you can take, work hard, be patriotic, and so on.

That led to shrieking and swooning among Goodthinkers everywhere. The authors, it was said, were calling for the restoration of Jim Crow, for women to get back in the kitchen, for homosexuals to be jailed, and so on. I covered the hysteria in my August 18th and September 1st podcasts.

I concluded the latter of those podcasts with the prediction that the administrators at U. Penn. law school would cave to the witch-hunters. Professor Wax, being tenured, can’t be fired, but I thought she would lose some of her classes. It was an easy call. The administrators at our colleges and universities are bred on a ranch hidden somewhere in the mountain West to be exceptionally compliant with Cultural Marxist orthodoxy, and to have no spinal matter at all.

In this case, however, I underestimated Professor Wax. She returned all the obloquy with courage and spirit, and held on stubbornly to her classes.

Forward to the present. Now the lady is in trouble again. After last August’s kerfuffle she did one of those Bloggingheads interviews with Economics Professor Glenn Loury, a black guy, from Brown University … or possibly a brown guy from Black University: it’s hard to keep these things straight.

This was last August [Glenn Loury (Brown University) and Amy Wax (Race, Wrongs, and Remedies, University of Pennsylvania) ,

BloggingHeads, August 29, 2018]. The two professors discussed, in a not-particularly-controversial way, the under-performance of blacks at law school. Professor Wax said, amongst other things: “I don’t think I’ve ever seen a black student graduate in the top quarter of the class, and rarely, rarely in the top half”

A few days ago, some witch-hunters dug up this Bloggingheads exchange from last year. More shrieking and swooning. The dean of Penn. Law school, an invertebrate named Ted Ruger, [Email him] flatly contradicted Professor Wax: “Black students have graduated in the top of the class at Penn Law” [Amy Wax removed from teaching required first year courses at Penn Law School, By Paul Campos, Lawyers, Guns & Money, March 13, 2018]. He did not, however, provide any evidence for his assertion, nor any definition of his term “top of the class.”

Top half? Top ninety-five percent? Who knows?

The Dean was actually puffing out this squid ink from behind a high protective wall of administrative protocol. The actual performance of different races at U. Penn Law is a closely-guarded secret.

Hence, for making a factual statement based on her own experience, a statement no-one has produced facts to contradict, Professor Wax is now undergoing her second Two Minutes Hate. And this time she has actually suffered academic consequences. Dean Ruger, fortified by an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, has had her removed from her duties teaching first-year students.

Since Dean Ruger has called Professor Wax a liar in print, and dishonored her by removing her first-year class, some of Professor Wax’s friends have suggested she file a grievance with the American Association of University Professors. Whether such a filing would come to any conclusive result is uncertain. But there would likely be one of those processes lawyers call “discovery,” in which the law school would have to open its files on student achievement by race.

Then we’d know who was telling the truth about black students … as if we don’t know already.

That Professor Wax should be hounded like this for some simple observations of fact, tells you how deep our academic culture has sunk. The lady is not even, to the best of my knowledge, a race realist. She was at any rate not a race realist eight years ago: I can state that with some authority.

Here’s my authority. In 2009 Professor Wax published a book titled Race, Wrongs, and Remedies.

Within the larger sphere of jurisprudence there is a specialty area called the Law of Remedies. Suppose I hit you with my car and break both your legs. Now you’re on crutches. The law—the Law of Remedies—says I have to recompense you: Pay your medical bills, lost wages, and so on.

There comes a point, however, when I have discharged my obligations under the Law of Remedies. If you are still on crutches at that point, it’s now up to you to put forth some effort and get walking again. I am no longer under any obligation; I can go about my own business.

ORDER IT NOW

Professor Wax’s 2009 book made an analogy with the situation of blacks in today’s America. What can reasonably be done to atone for past cruelty and injustice, she argued, has been done. Now blacks have to put forth some effort and get off their crutches, if they are to attain statistical parity with other races in America.

The book is thoughtful, literate, and rigorously argued, as you’d expect from someone whose IQ is very likely a four-digit number. It caused much unhappiness at U. Penn law school, though. Professor Wax was called to a meeting of the Black Law Students’ Association to explain herself.

At the meeting, Professor Wax gave as good as she got, so the offended parties left dissatisfied. They called for a bigger event: a public debate between Professor Wax and some black legal academics. They chivalrously allowed that Professor Wax might have someone to second her on the debate platform.

It happened that I had published my book We Are Doomed at the same time Professor Wax published hers. She had read my book and emailed me about it. We had exchanged a few more emails in a spirit of friendly discussion.

So when this platform debate in front of the Black Law Students’ Association was being arranged, Professor Wax suggested they invite me in to be her second. The Association emailed me with an invite.

I emailed back, explaining my own opinions as a race realist: Contra Professor Wax, I don’t think blacks can attain statistical parity with other races, however much effort they put forth. Biology makes it impossible.

The black law students, to their credit, invited me anyway. I went down to Philly, gave a ten-minute address, fielded Q&A, and socialized with Professor Wax and the black law students afterwards. The whole thing, including my address, can be read on my website johnderbyshire.com. See Revisiting Race and Remedies: Should the Government Play A Role in Eliminating Racial Disparities in Education and Employment? dated April 5th, 2010.

As can be seen from that transcript, I gave them straight race realism on the rocks. Again to their credit, I was received cordially and thoughtfully, confirming Jared Taylor’s observation that blacks, or some large subset of them, are fascinated to hear a white person speak honestly about race.

Why wouldn’t they be? Things that are extremely rare are naturally fascinating.

The only discordant note was one of the audience members, a black guy, telling me my views were “old.” I was of course much too polite to riposte that belief in the sphericity of the Earth is even older—around twenty-six hundred years old—but is generally held to be true notwithstanding.

That was eight years ago, before the Antifa got themselves organized.

My views, which I explained very frankly to the Black Law Students’ Association beforehand, and which did not deter them from inviting me, have not changed. It is a measure of how fast our Cultural Revolution is proceeding that such acceptance would be unthinkable now; or that, if somehow I were invited to speak, I would be able to make myself heard above the Antifa chanting and the sound of breaking glass.

I offer my sympathies to Professor Wax in her current travails.

And I hope that one day sanity and respect for reasoned discourse will be restored to our universities and law schools.

It’s a dwindling hope. But I hope it anyway.

2010-12-24dl[1] John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com:FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
Hide 349 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Mishra says:

    The book is thoughtful, literate, and rigorously argued, as you’d expect from someone whose IQ is very likely a four-digit number.

    Four digits now? There really is no stopping the Chosen People.

    • LOL: Yan Shen
  2. I’m sure she’s very smart and talented but why isn’t she in Israel?

  3. Yan Shen says:
    @Mishra

    Well I think commenter Factorize argued earlier that in theory we could have 100 SD of total IQ, so a max of 1500, if we optimized the human genome. My immediate question about that was if it would be possible to boost the IQ of living beings to such levels, rather than merely edit the genomes of the yet to be born. A great use for this kind of sci-fi technology. Imagine Ta Nehisi Coates and his uh white counterpart John Derbyshire both being boosted to IQ 1500. The ensuing intellectual exchange would be like watching two terminator T-3000s duking it out for supremacy…

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Thomm
    , @utu
  4. Amy Wax is a breath of fresh air, proof that not all Jews are lemming libtards or neocons. I admire her greatly for speaking out. Dean Ruger of course, is another coward weasel, a dime a dozen in the academic world. Jason Riley wrote an article on academic mismatch hurting blacks in support of Amy Wax on the same day her article was published in the WSJ last week. Riley is himself black.

  5. Realist says:
    @Yan Shen

    What was the premise of the argument behind IQ 1500?

    • Replies: @res
  6. BloggingHeads, August 29, 2018]. The two professors discussed, …

    I am Professor Wax, and I am from the future.

    You may want to fix this one, Mr. Derbyshire. I will assume it’s from ’17.

    Not at all apropos, but here’s Future Dwight [Schrute]:

  7. About the article itself:

    First off, the disrespect and bad treatment given to Professor Was still makes one feel somthing that can only be described by a many-syllabled German word, to the effect of “Hey, here’s a taste of your own medicine. Now do you still think we are all stupid rednecks?” I don’t know much of her work, but almost all in academia, except in the hard sciences and math are not really truth-seekers, and would not stand up for someone who is. You are quite right up the Deans and Dept. heads. They are politicians to the core, and have no integrity whatsoever.

    Next, I have read a number of books on the Chinese Cultural Revolution. One thing to be learned is that the evil starts with control of the little ones. The things that the Chinese children were brainwashed to do to their OWN PARENTS was sickening, and makes you really understand that a big pillar of Communism is destruction of the family. THE STATE must be made bigger than the family in the eyes of the children. In America, it is called No Stupid Left Behind.

    As doomed as we may seem some mornings, America still has some freedoms left that the elite have forgotten (in my opinion) to work on. I am amazed,in fact, that the Feral Gov’t has not threatened the various states into banning home-schooling. It is the biggest way that Americans can poke the Beast in the eye with a big stick (more here and here), over voting, writing their congressrodents, working for cash, up to living off the grid completely.

  8. Old news: Jews are born with exceptionally high IQs, non-Jews fall somewhere in the middle, with blacks bringing up the rear.

  9. I have taken on my own recovery for months. But the idea that two hundred years of socialization is going to be cured by said remedies that don’t in any way avert the cause –

    which is first attitudinal toward a stedy state artifcat which has subsequently been part and parcel to the system is nonsense. I have no idea how long it takes to remedy socially enforced flwed system that from its birth was targeted to a set population.

    What the good professor misses is that whatever remedies put in place those remedies were either hijacksed ro shared with the aggreiving parties.

    So I get hit by a car. I am prescribed a set of crutches. But in so presrcribing, it is required that i share those crutches with

    Bill and sue and of course Juan and Mariana, because they too have been injured in some manner. They weren’t hit by cars. They don’t have broken legs or anything else as the result of my accident, but as result I can only use my crutches on Tues and half day on Sunday.

    To the extent that said crutches were required to my healing and extended life maintenance — the benefit is negligible if of any benefit at all. And then to discover, not only must I share my crutches with parties to my injury. I have to share them with the very people who ran over me.

    I certainly don’t agree with all complaints concerning blackness. But anyone making any assessment that ignores the actual supposed application of the remedy to a system in place long after supposed accident — doesn’t understand the infrastructure and implementation of policy.

    Now maybe she does just that. But I suspect a woman, especially white have not calculated the impact of their demands on the same car accident of blacks on the general society, much-less — not at all on the remedies designed to redress the wrong. The constant example is AA. whites moan and groan about AA and yet they are biggest benefactors and they are benefactors to the very complaint: lowered standards, arbitrary qualities, faux complaints —–

    I would be curious to know what female sports programs bring enough money to support women’s programs. Male athletes have been supporting entire departments — and with greater frequency — those academic bread winners have been black athletes – male black athletes.

    I think the white card invasion on the remedy, shared among: women, hispanics, same sex practitioners, illegal immigrants, legal immigrants . . . suggests that the remedy has been no remedy at all. Any one need not even address the attitudinal consequences withing two of Dr. Wax’s fields: law and academia. Who happen to be the two largest distorters of the supposed remedy.

    Still: It is sad that her views are silenced in this manner. If the dean thought she her assessment on graduation he should simply why her view might need expanding and do so by the numbers, that her experience might be limited or subject to the very distortions of remedy — but getting the boot for a matter worthy of address — seems extreme.

  10. @Achmed E. Newman

    I am amazed,in fact, that the Feral Gov’t has not threatened the various states into banning home-schooling. It is the biggest way that Americans can poke the Beast in the eye with a big stick (more here and here), over voting, writing their congressrodents, working for cash, up to living off the grid completely.

    #metoogoddammit

    The banning of homeschooling seems so obvious. Why haven’t They done it? It would seem to be absurdly simple to justify to the great melange of blacks, asians and mexicans that are now the majority of the US population. Piece o’ cake, in fact. Leave private schools for the goodwhites, of course.

    Banning of working for cash, and of living off-grid are only a few years away.

    Hell, turn out the lights.

    • Replies: @FPD72
  11. The lady is not even, to the best of my knowledge, a race realist.

    True, but she is also not a fully-committed revolutionary as her statements show.

    The old liberal guard – which likely never fully believed their own rhetoric about racial differences but did believe that such rhetoric would help improve society – is now getting pushed out by the new generation that were raised to 100% believe the rhetoic.

    The new guard is right to push out the old guard. If you truly believed that the races are genetically equal but that achievement gaps remain because of racism, you would demand that ever more aggressive policies be instituted to remedy the situation. Yet, these old guard liberals want to more or less maintain the status quo, so they need to go.

    What’s happening on campuses makes perfect sense if you believe that the races are equal. And why wouldn’t you if that’s what you’ve been told by your parents, teachers, government leaders, presidents, academics, the media and corporate leaders. Basically, every pillor of society is telling you that the races are equal in capabilities and that white racism is causing the achievement gaps.

    Wouldn’t you be angry if that was your worldview? Wouldn’t you push out the old guard that doesn’t seem to be doing much about it?

    Don’t blame Wax’s critics. Blame the societal leaders – including Wax – who filled their heads with a lie.

  12. Quick question. If Prof. Wax isn’t a race realist, how does she explain the low academic achievement of blacks, not just at her law school but in general?

    The answer to that question may explain why she’s in her current perdicament. If she implicitly or explicitly points to the finger at white racism, she shouldn’t be surprised when the mob shows up at her door.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @Wizard of Oz
  13. Chuck says:

    Will somebody please think about the Jews!

    • Replies: @Wally
  14. Jeff77450 says:

    Said in all seriousness, JD would win because the facts are on his side.

  15. res says:
    @Realist

    This is a good description of the extreme (here stated as 1000 OR as 100 SD which is 1500) IQ argument: http://nautil.us/issue/18/genius/super_intelligent-humans-are-coming

    Given that there are many thousands of potential positive variants, the implication is clear: If a human being could be engineered to have the positive version of each causal variant, they might exhibit cognitive ability which is roughly 100 standard deviations above average. This corresponds to more than 1,000 IQ points.

    More details in the article.

    There is a simplified version of the argument at http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2015/08/explain-it-to-me-like-im-five-years-old.html

    1. Cognitive ability is highly heritable. At least half the variance is genetic in origin.

    2. It is influenced by many (probably thousands) of common variants (see GCTA estimates of heritability due to common SNPs). We know there are many because the fewer there are the larger the (average) individual effect size of each variant would have to be. But then the SNPs would be easy to detect with small sample size.

    Recent studies with large sample sizes detected ~70 SNP hits, but would have detected many more if effect sizes were consistent with, e.g., only hundreds of causal variants in total.

    3. Since these are common variants the probability of having the negative variant — with (-) effect on g score — is not small (e.g., like 10% or more).

    4. So each individual is carrying around many hundreds (if not thousands) of (-) variants.

    5. As long as effects are roughly additive, we know that changing ALL or MOST of these (-) variants into (+) variants would push an individual many standard deviations (SDs) above the population mean. Such an individual would be far beyond any historical figure in cognitive ability.
    Given more details we can estimate the average number of (-) variants carried by individuals, and how many SDs are up for grabs from flipping (-) to (+). As is the case with most domesticated plants and animals, we expect that the existing variation in the population allows for many SDs of improvement (see figure below).

  16. As I posted on another article on Unz:

    They can’t fire her unless she staggers into class drunk and tries to rape a student in front of witnesses, but they already took her off a required course. If her elective courses don’t get enough students to run, she won’t have enough sections to be fully employed. When they do give her sections, they will be at odd hours and days, like a 7:30AM followed by a night class, so either she has to drive back and forth or sit in her office all day. Or they’ll give her back-to-back 2-hour classes with no lunch break. In different buildings, halfway across campus, so she won’t even have time to hit the bathroom, let alone hold office hours between two classes.

    And of course, they’ll give her The Freeze at faculty meetings.

  17. Randal says:

    The JD Twitter feed posted at the rhs of the page:

    Me: “A small cohort of blacks—in my experience, around 5%—is ferociously hostile to whites and will go to great lengths to inconvenience or harm us.” https://tinyurl.com/ldfh6ez $outhern Poverty Law Center: “That’s RACIST!” https://tinyurl.com/yako7kcq Me: “Whatever. Is it T-R-U-E?”

    Obviously it’s racist to suggest that a minority of blacks hate whites (ie are racist). Everyone except white racists knows there are no bad blacks.

    On the other hand, it’s also racist to say that a small percentage of whites hate blacks. Because everyone knows all whites except for a tiny minority of “woke” leftists, are racist (ie hate blacks).
    [/cuck mode]

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  18. Randal says:
    @res

    Pretty scary stuff, considering higher intelligence is no guarantee of being right, good or on anyone in particular’s side.

  19. As can be seen from that transcript, I gave them straight race realism on the rocks. Again to their credit, I was received cordially and thoughtfully, confirming Jared Taylor’s observation that blacks, or some large subset of them, are fascinated to hear a white person speak honestly about race.

    Why wouldn’t they be? Things that are extremely rare are naturally fascinating.

    In 1980′s Chicago, there used to be a person on the radio that spoke his mind, and used his show to speak realistically about race. That was Steve Dahl. The other radio stations in town always tore into him, especially the “progressive” rock station, who referred to him and his on air partner, Garry Meier as “the racists down the dial.” Ironically, Steve Dahl had the largest black audience in the city. It was even bigger than the “black” radio stations. Blacks enjoyed the candor and honesty Steve Dahl had, and the non-patronizing and non-condescending “conversation” about race that he had on his radio show.

    • Replies: @Byrresheim
  20. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The witch-hunts in the early modern days could be studied to get an idea, what might be going on.

    I think of the well-known humanist writer Erasmus of Rotterdam, who happened to study some witch-trials in the Black Forset near Freiburg from up close and did not not take the stand, that those trials were all wrong. He held a partly-enlightened position, which allowed him, to a) stay respected (and alive…) – and to b) undermine, kinda, the real witch-hunt-fever (which he did).

    Something alike happened in Switzerland with pre-marital sex. It’s true, the law against it was held valid up until the nineteen seventies, but – since decades the cases, in which this law led to any serious consequences were in a steady decline, until they reached the annual number close to zero or zero for a while – and it was only then, that the swiss Parliament decided to get rid of the law alltogether.

    Wax – could be a figure like Erasmus of Rotterdam was once.

    The advantage of a position like hers lies for me in it’s discreete nature, which seems to me to be very human – I do think, that it’s not completely unzivilized to act in favor of decretion – if that’s her intention at all (as I sad: It might be).

  21. Yan Shen says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    Women uh obviously can’t rape men?

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
    , @dfordoom
  22. @Yan Shen

    Your naivete is enchanting.

    • LOL: Twodees Partain
    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    , @Randal
    , @Bel Riose
  23. @res

    I would love to this DNA model that accomplishes that task.

  24. Realist says:
    @res

    Thanks so much for your reply.

    This is a question I have had for sometime.I submitted a comment on this subject to Steve Sailer’s blog titled DNA AND IQ in early March.

  25. I can’t even imagine the policies one would put in place around IQ genetics. But as commented earlier high IQ is hardly a guarantee to wisdom or even success as generally understood among us unintelligent people.

    Her most enlightened quality is that she understands and supports the very basic model by which most people obtain a successful life. I say most because it is entirely possible to do everything near right and have someone completely upset that apple cart. But there is no arguing that

    hard work
    intact families
    etc . . . are keys to what is generally understood as successful.

  26. Amy looks as though she could beat the piss out of Ruger in a fistfight. I live in hope it comes to that.

  27. Yan Shen says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    You’re right. I forgot. They can only rape men if they’re unattractive like you. :)

  28. @Twodees Partain

    I’d buy front-row seats for that one.

    I know the Buckleys aren’t much loved on this site, but one of William F’s sisters once publicly clocked a feminist who insulted the Virgin Mary.

    Do NOT mess with Conservative women.

  29. @Twodees Partain

    I wonder sometimes just how far the leftists would have gotten in their long march through the institutions if they’d had to contend with getting their asses whipped instead of just being debated.

    That’s something I guess we’ll never know.

  30. @Another realist

    Because she’s an American?

    Why aren’t you in some foreign country?

  31. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Yan Shen

    Women uh obviously can’t rape men?

    Of course they can. It’s the Current Year. There’s no reason why women with penises can’t rape men with vaginas.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @schnellandine
  32. Wally says:
    @Carroll Price

    Yawn. Same old Jew propaganda again.

    No they are not, not even close.
    Though Jews like you wish it, try to promote it.

    Look at IQs by country:

    https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @Z-man
  33. utu says:

    Penn Law full time faculty only 30% Jewish. Must not be the first rate school.

  34. Wally says:
    @Chuck

    No doubt, Jews make sure we think about Jews 365, 24/7.
    Jews:
    the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral

  35. She’s got to sue PennLaw, and do so for millions of dollars, for defamation and violation of her prerogatives as a respected, tenured law prof.

    What Ruger is doing to her is very similar to what City College officials did to my old grad school logic prof, Michael Levin, ca 1988-1991. Levin sued and won, but didn’t demand any monetary damages, so there was no painful lesson for CCNY. Meanwhile, during the same period, black supremacist CCNY prof Leonard Jeffries, who was not abused in the way Levin was, sued and won hundreds of thousands of dollars. And Jeffries should have been fired! (Among other things, his office had printed up and distributed death threats against employees of the New York Post and “the Jewish people”!)

    Jeffries had merely had his title as department head taken away, after almost 20 years, which he never should have had in the first place.

    • Replies: @in the middle
    , @Xenos
  36. CalDre says:
    @Carroll Price

    Nice to hear from the resident Jew supremacist. Unfortunately for you, scoring higher on those tests does not translate into actual intelligence in real life – and clearly is a huge disadvantage when it comes to morality.

    • Replies: @Z-man
    , @Byzantine_General
  37. Thomm says:
    @Yan Shen

    Just boost negro IQ to 100, and we will be fine.

    WN wiggers need an even larger boost to reach 100, but they are segregated the way blacks are.

    • LOL: Yan Shen
    • Replies: @utu
  38. CalDre says:
    @dfordoom

    If we are thinking about classical rape, it is actually possible, some men are quite weak, some even in a coma, paralyzed or passed out drunk but still can get an erection. In other cases, where the woman is weaker, he can be given “date rape” drugs or otherwise tied up and taken advantage of.

    Of course nowadays there are new classes of rape. One is a sexual demand by a superior. So if your boss says “fuck me or you’re fired” or “fuck me and get promoted” (perhaps not so crudely), and you do, well, that’s “rape”! Feministas will tell you, for sure.

    Then there is statutory rape – the hot teacher and her pubescent, hormone-swamped student.

    The question always is, why would a woman rape a man, when it is trivial for a woman to find a willing sex partner. That is not always true, depends on the woman, and she may be fixated on someone as well (obsession). And other psychological reasons.

  39. @Yan Shen

    I’ve been raped by women. By many different women too and sometimes even repeatedly by the same women. Some might blame alcohol but I blame nature and my obviously sexual irresistibility. I am completely innocent, of course, it is always the woman’s doing.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  40. @dfordoom

    It’s evidence of just how crazy current year is when a self-evident truth is treated as such only ironically.

    A woman may threaten a man with one stick or another if he won’t have sex with her. Could be blackmail, vandalism, or the like. And yes, it’s old school criminally-chargeable rape–if you can shake the prosecutor’s head long enough for enough rocks to fall out.

  41. @Johnny Smoggins

    Because she’s an American?

    Why aren’t you in some foreign country?

  42. @Another realist

    I apologize for the previous reply, which was not meant for you.

  43. utu says:
    @Thomm

    Don’t you have your Indian problems in India? What about the mass outdoor crap taking by billion Indians?

    • Replies: @Thomm
  44. utu says:
    @Yan Shen

    Hey, Copernicus, go spread your new Copernican revolution.

  45. Just Derbyshire sucking up to Jews again. Yawn. He is a metaphor for the fall of England. Rather shameful actually.

  46. @NoseytheDuke

    Well, Nosey, just look at the way you dress…..

  47. jim jones says:

    The Muslim and Jewish wings of the British Left are engaged in a titanic struggle for power:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5555857/Labour-MELTDOWN-anti-Semitism.html

  48. From the other side of the Atlantic I just can guess that this is about differences between ethnic groups.
    These differences exist:
    Melville J. Herskovits, ‘The Myth of the Negro Past’, 1941, 1958, Boston
    On our side too stating that differences do exist is racism, fascism, etc.
    Diversity officers are being created all over the place.
    Most universities bowed to the pressure that university staff should reflect population diversity in general.
    At least one university stopped the nonsense, capabilities are the criteria.
    Having experienced the stupidity of car mechanics of Moroccan descent, my car just goes to garages with personnel I trust as competent.

  49. Svigor says:

    Time for a divorce. Normies are from Mars, leftoids are from Venus. This is what separate countries are for.

    “I don’t think I’ve ever seen a black student graduate in the top quarter of the class, and rarely, rarely in the top half”

    Leftists shit their pants over unorthodox context; it’s the sort of thing they say every day, but take it out of context, and they shit their pants.

    Within the larger sphere of jurisprudence there is a specialty area called the Law of Remedies. Suppose I hit you with my car and break both your legs. Now you’re on crutches. The law—the Law of Remedies—says I have to recompense you: Pay your medical bills, lost wages, and so on.

    There comes a point, however, when I have discharged my obligations under the Law of Remedies. If you are still on crutches at that point, it’s now up to you to put forth some effort and get walking again. I am no longer under any obligation; I can go about my own business.

    Professor Wax’s 2009 book made an analogy with the situation of blacks in today’s America. What can reasonably be done to atone for past cruelty and injustice, she argued, has been done. Now blacks have to put forth some effort and get off their crutches, if they are to attain statistical parity with other races in America.

    The problem is that there’s thousands of hours of video evidence that the plaintiff was never struck by the defendant’s car. That, in fact, the plaintiff was walking on crutches for years before YT ever met him.

    In this case, when your lawyer suggests “admitting” that you hit the plaintiff with your car when you did not, you fire her four-digit-IQ-having ass.

  50. Svigor says:

    Thomm says:
    March 29, 2018 at 4:59 am GMT
    @Yan Shen

    WOG, you have to go back.

  51. Svigor says:

    Old news: Jews are born with exceptionally high IQs, non-Jews fall somewhere in the middle, with blacks bringing up the rear.

    I’ve met lots of people who I reckon have IQs of 108* or so, and I’ve never thought of them as “exceptionally” smart. Maybe I’m just picky.

    *Half of all Jews have IQs below this.

    • Replies: @Meretricious
  52. CalDre says:
    @Wally

    Iqinfo? I ran through that test just to see what it was. It’s 40 questions of pattern recognition, that’s it. And after you’ve answered it, it won’t give you the results unless you enter your Facebook Account and give them access. And how do they know if like me you just answered randomly to get to the end, or you are trying?

    So we can conclude: it is a very very poor intelligence test, let’s not even call it one, let’s call it a “are you stupid enough to give these fraudsters” (as they don’t tell you at the outset they require FB access to give you the results) “your time and FB access”.

    What a fraud! You are taking those numbers seriously?

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Anonymous
  53. Randal says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    Your naivete is enchanting.

    Here’s the definition of rape in English Law, from Wikipedia:

    Rape is a statutory offence in England and Wales. According to the law, rape occurs when one person penetrates another with their penis without the consent of the person being penetrated. If a victim is forcefully penetrated with an object, this is classed as “Assault by Penetration” (section 2).[1] If the victim is forcefully made to penetrate another, the act can be prosecuted as “Causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent” (section 4).[2]

    The offence is created by section 1[3] of the Sexual Offences Act 2003:

    (1) A person (A) commits an offence if—

    (a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,

    I’ll leave it to you to explain the circumstances in which a woman can somehow “rape” a man. But you’ll need to do it without reference to freaks created by modern medical technology – a human being with a penis is by definition not a woman – he or it is either a man or a freak.

    Granted the term has been deliberately expanded in general discourse and in many official contexts to cover all kinds of non-consensual sexual interaction, which properly should be classed as assaults of various kinds, but these are mostly consequences of feminist, homosexualist and other ideologies seeking to engineer language and society in ways that suit their purposes. Any conservative worth his salt should pay such nonsense no heed.

    The fact that rape properly is an act a man can do to a woman but not vice versa, reflects inherent and fundamental distinctions between male and female, and not just physical ones, which we have had stolen from our culture, to our detriment.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  54. Looking at it by my primitive eyes, I do see it like this.
    Communism was just another robbery. Some people built something, and some people being jealous did take it away from them. Not big problem except stagnation resulted and not much was built after.
    Here is now the same thing. White built something materialistic and cultural, and blacks are now taking it away from them. It is the same thing as agriculture in Rhodesia and South Africa.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  55. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    The Holy Three are Jews, Negroes, and Homos.

    But there are cases where they bicker among themselves.

    In this case, it’s Jewish woman vs blacks.

  56. Bel Riose says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    Rosamond Vincy, I hereby challenge you to a mud wrestling match.

    Lagertha can referee, provided she stays on her meds and off the booze.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  57. @The Alarmist

    Can you please share the source of this data? Thanks in advance.

    • Replies: @res
  58. @Johnny Smoggins

    Maybe it’s because not everybody wants to move to your shitty little country.

  59. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Re-read (or reread) the article for the answer to your question.

  60. @Rosamond Vincy

    She could get a small group of supportive students to publicise the fact that they have persuaded the University’s finest lecturer to give a series of lectures which the Faculty and unfortunately discontinued. If they wanted to be really aggressive and derisive they could call them the Ruger Lectures and invite students to turn up in their hundreds to show due respect to Dean Ruger. Students who attended her previous years lectures would be the most likely to be suitable conveners and promoters.

  61. @Twodees Partain

    I think you’ve looked at the wrong (the first) photograph. Have another look. What do you think?

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  62. neutral says:

    Always good when the Frankenstein monster the jews created turn on them.

  63. Picnic ants attacking a Border Collie.I wish Mr. Derbyshire would write a piece detailing his observations of the academic quality of students and courses at schools which he has visited. I have a daughter who teaches at various schools–George Mason, Brown, Amherst, what have you–andmy impression through her is that quality has dropped drastically since the early Sixties, but she is too young to make the comparison.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  64. Z-man says:
    @Mishra

    That would be ‘Chosen People’ worship. LOL!!!
    Wow she did medical school and then law school. Maybe Adleson payed her way, lol.
    Forget the philosophy of her work that I probably agree with.

  65. @Bel Riose

    You issued the challenge, Sir; I choose the weapon and name my own seconds. Rapiers (so appropriate!). Unless you prefer Mark Twain’s solution of brick-bats at three-quarters of a mile.

  66. Z-man says:
    @Wally

    Also, some of the smartest ‘book smart’ ones are some of the most disfunctional people on earth.

    • Replies: @Wally
  67. @Randal

    Rather than go into a crude discussion of what some women do with objects that is legally considered rape in places other than the UK, or descriptions of what Australian thuggettes have been known to do through sheer uncontrollable physiological reaction, I shall amend my post for the better comprehension of the Estrogen-challenged:

    They can’t fire her unless she staggers into class drunk and offers a student an A in the class in exchange for sex in front of witnesses….

    Is everyone happy now?

    • Replies: @Randal
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  68. Z-man says:
    @CalDre

    Yes, living in Hymie town I’ve observed that the richest most ‘successful’ select ones are not only the most dysfunctional but also the most miserable people on earth.

  69. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Not big problem except stagnation resulted and not much was built after

    .

    Tell that to folks who remember what the Soviets did with Kulak harvests in Ukraine.

  70. res says:
    @The King is A Fink

    It looks like the data is from a now defunct website: http://www.rampageshooting.com/
    Here is an archive page showing what used to be there: https://web.archive.org/web/20130627133159/http://www.rampageshooting.com/
    It is convenient that it now redirects to a Harvard page about unintentional firearm deaths.

    Since the site disappeared rather than was shouted down I suspect the data is reasonably accurate. More information at

    http://ninjapundit.blogspot.com/2015/06/mass-shooting-index-usa-not-number-one.html

    • Replies: @res
    , @The King is A Fink
  71. The author refers to Judith and Jael as “feisty Jewish women of the Old Testament.”

    Judith was a Hittite and Jael was the wife of Heber the Kenite. Neither was “Jewish.”

    Jewish is from Judah by way of Judean. (Judith was Judah’s aunt.)

    Judea, a district of Palestine which was to be home of the descendants of Judah comes into prominence among the Children of Israel many centuries later on the disappearance of the “lost” ten tribes. A Jew was a Judean descended from Judah.

    In modern usage Jew is a contraction of Judaist.

    Judaism began as Phariseeism. Phariseeism, later called Rabbinism, Talmudism and finally Judaism, claims to be a development of the religion of Moses but in fact is from Persian fertility cults likely adopted during the Babylonian captivity.

    Christianity is the fulfillment of the religion of Moses. Jesus said the Pharisees put the wisdom of men ahead of the Word of God, i.e. the teachings of Moses and the Prophets.

    So neither Judith nor Jael were Jewish in the original sense of the word (Judean) nor in the modern sense (Pharisees).

    For more, see Michael Hoffman: Judaism’s Strange Gods.

  72. @Wizard of Oz

    What can reasonably be done to atone for past cruelty and injustice, she argued, has been done. Now blacks have to put forth some effort and get off their crutches, if they are to attain statistical parity with other races in America.

    My bad.

    However, I find the “black culture is the cause of black underachievement” argument (assuming that’s what Prof. Wax is making) almost as bad as the white racism argument. They both refuse to acknowledge genetic group differences. First, blacks wouldn’t magically starting performing as well as whites if they adopted our culture. Would their performance improve, yes, but it would still lag whites by a large amount.

    Second, culture is an off-shoot of biology. Asking blacks to act like whites is unfair. They aren’t white. They’ll never be white. You’re asking them to act like something that they’re not day in and day out. Granted, you’re asking them to act white so that they are tolerable in our society which provides them with unimaginably more wealth than they could achieve on their own. But you’re still demanding that they be something that they’re not.

    It’s a pipe dream but, really, the solution is what it’s always been. Separate societies for separate groups.

    • Agree: Mishra
    • Replies: @Another Realist
    , @Randal
  73. Randal says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    Much better, thanks. The discussion alternative sounds positively alarming…

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  74. res says:
    @res

    More information at https://ijr.com/2015/12/348197-paris-attack-claim-mass-shootings/
    They include a link to an archive page which makes it easy to cut and paste the data into a spreadsheet.

    Some more discussion at https://www.securitymagazine.com/articles/85391-international-mass-shooting-fatalities-continue-to-climb
    It is interesting that they seem to have disappeared their linked infographic (replaced the image with something else).

  75. Bel Riose says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    Rapiers…perfect and appropriate indeed! And probably the only apt choice for rival bloggers/intellectuals.

    A medieval spike shield duel would work too, I suppose — as depicted by Talhoffer — but rapiers it is.

    At dawn, I presume?

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  76. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Since the concept of IQ as a measure of intelligence is hardly intelligent, what is the point of insulting African-Americans by telling them that their kind is inherently intellectually inferior to Americans of other ethnic groups merely because, in the present state of society, their group has a lower mean IQ that some other groups in American society?

    Intelligence as a unitary feature of mind is a fatuous idea unsupported by data, indeed clearly contradicted by the data. Moreover it is clearly contradicted by neuroanatomical and neurophysiological evidence.

    Race realists are simply foolish racists who deceive themselves with the belief that there is a scientific basis for their racism. That is not to assert that racial groups in America do not differ in IQ, but only that IQ is the product of crude tests of a some aspects of mental function, all of which are subject to massive phenotypic plasticity. IQ testing is merely the 20th century successor to phrenology. It is not a science, but an elaborate hoax.

    None of which, of course, is intended in anyway to negate the argument that the administrators running America’s universities are a bunch of low-grade morons perpetually driven to assert their superiority to the scholars who, in their feebleminded and gutless way, allowed the PC bureaucratic scum to usurp control of the academic community.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Randal
  77. @res

    Thanks. There is quite a collection of material on that last link you provided!

  78. @Randal

    Thank you for sparing my blushes. I hesitated at attempting so Indelicate a Disquisition.

  79. @Bel Riose

    That depends on how much Mead everybody has had the night before. The stages are usually:
    1. Enough Mead to force everyone to sleep it off; by the time they regain consciousness around noon, they will be sufficiently hungover to be averse to any action besides encouraging the Seconds to settle matters;
    2. Enough Mead so everyone is too drunk and aggressive to sleep, and staggers to the Field of Honour at dawn, aim sufficiently impaired to put no one in danger but the bystanders;
    3. Enough Mead so everyone is too drunk and aggressive to sleep, and staggers to the Field of Honour at dawn, forgetting why they are there long before they reach it, except for the ones who’ve been lost on the way. This last group is in the greatest amount of peril, unless their non-comatose companions have been kind enough to drag them out of the middle of the road before they are run over.

    As you see, the many hazards of this violent practice have contributed to its being generally banned.

    • Replies: @Bel Riose
  80. Trump needs to nominate Amy Wax for SCOTUS when Ginsberg finally keels over, or is declared senile, and go nuclear for her the way he did for Gorsuch.

    Given the cucking he’s been doing lately though, I won’t hold my breath.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @JMcG
  81. Wally says:
    @CalDre

    IOW, you just didn’t like the results. LOL

    Here’s another.

    https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

    and many more:

    https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=uhG9WuDMAoXWjwPt9bnwBA&q=iq+by+country&oq=iq+by+country&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i131k1j0l9.1624.10392.0.11976.15.15.0.0.0.0.196.1696.2j13.15.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.12.1422…0i10k1j0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j33i160k1j0i7i30k1j0i8i30k1.0.VuGAjdTZErs

    I win.

  82. Wally says:
    @Z-man

    And what “books” is it that redneck Jews read?

    These are books that they want banned:

    Holocaust Handbooks, Documentaries, & Videos

    http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

  83. @Svigor

    dude, Jews aren’t dominating academically anymore–see Ron Unz on this

  84. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Second, culture is an off-shoot of biology. Asking blacks to act like whites is unfair. They aren’t white. They’ll never be white. You’re asking them to act like something that they’re not day in and day out. Granted, you’re asking them to act white so that they are tolerable in our society which provides them with unimaginably more wealth than they could achieve on their own. But you’re still demanding that they be something that they’re not.

    Define “Acting White”? If you mean a set of traits like upward mobility, valuing education, hard work, thrift, integrity, get married before having children, staying married, law abidingness, punctuality, etc. I’d say these are pretty universal traits that most intelligent, successful people embrace. They are not unique to whites, and they are learned not inborn or heritable.

    Culture is often associated with race, but correlation does not equal causation. I posit that culture is a function of IQ not race. There are plenty of successful people of all races, and plenty of unsuccessful people of all races. There is no “white culture”, “black culture”, “asian culture”, “hispanic culture”, there is only “smart culture” and “dumb culture”. Smart people embrace smart culture which includes child-centric parenting, upward mobility, hard work and striving to raise children who are even more successful than they are; stupid people embrace stupid culture which includes parent-centric parenting, no emphasis on education and upward mobility, hard work and not caring whether their children end up more successful than they are.

    More whites embrace smart culture because whites in general have higher IQ, sadly that trend is ebbing. There are plenty of upper middle class whites who grew up with parents who emphasized this smart culture and do alright for themselves yet end up raising loser children who don’t embrace these cultural traits. Millennials are the first generation that will not do better than their parents. Luck runs out a lot quicker for those with lower IQ.

    Blacks who are stuck in the ghetto and lower class whites do not embrace smart culture because they have lower IQ. Smart blacks who got out of the ghetto have no problem embracing smart culture. Embracing smart culture is not “acting white”, it’s simply “acting smart”. I think that’s what Amy Wax is advocating as well, for America to return to embracing “smart culture”.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  85. Judging by the comments on this thread, a lot of people sincerely believe that IQ test measures the intelligence or cognitive ability. There is no scientific evidence for that whatsoever. I strongly suspect that the only thing IQ test measures is the amount of effort the person invested into preparing for that particular test. Everybody on the Admissions committees in colleges and grad schools knows that SAT and GRE scores tell you exactly nothing except how hard the person worked to prepare.
    Yes, person’s intelligence helps to translate the preparation effort into high scores, but that’s about it.
    Now, I am not saying that there is no genetic component in intelligence. I am not saying that all races are equal – I simply don’t know, and nowadays doing honest studies on this subject is not considered politically correct. The fact is, even if there was a test of actual intelligence, end even if the averages were different for different races and ethnic groups, these averages would have no predictive value in an individual case. It is well known among behavioral scientists that the smarter the species is in general, the grater individual variations you see. So, you can find a very smart individual in a not so smart group, or a very stupid individual in a group that on average is smart. This, you have to go by what you see in an individual, regardless of the group of origin. That would be real honest color-blindness, not the reverse racism pushed by libtards.

    • Replies: @Randal
    , @Anonymous
  86. Randal says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Second, culture is an off-shoot of biology. Asking blacks to act like whites is unfair. They aren’t white. They’ll never be white. You’re asking them to act like something that they’re not day in and day out.

    That’s what is called “growing up” and “being civilised” in human society.

    Nobody naturally behaves as an educated, disciplined member of a modern society behaves. Everyone has to overcome his or her “nature” to some extent. This idea that there’s something spiritually special about “natural” behaviour is hippy nonsense. Blacks are not so different from whites that they are another species, or aliens. There is huge overlap, and the fact that on average blacks might find it harder to discipline themselves to cultural norms that are positive – working hard, getting educated, being polite, restraining urges, especially violent ones, getting married and sticking with it, etc etc, doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with them doing it, or that a collective push in that direction would not improve their and our situation massively. It would.

    Whether separate societies are necessary is a legitimate point for debate, but that doesn’t mean the argument that blacks should take responsibility for improving their own culture is invalid.

    Presumably your intention is to argue the latter in order to leave your preferred option of separation as the only available one. That’s understandable, but there’s no reason why anybody else should accept that tactic.

  87. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    (1) “what is the point of insulting African-Americans by telling them that their kind is inherently intellectually inferior”

    (2) “Race realists are simply foolish racists who deceive themselves with the belief that there is a scientific basis for their racism. ”

    (3) “IQ testing is merely the 20th century successor to phrenology. It is not a science, but an elaborate hoax.”

    (4) “None of which, of course, is intended in anyway to negate the argument that the administrators running America’s universities are a bunch of low-grade morons ”

    I agree in the fist take on the level of sentiment and inclination to all four. On the factual level I would be more nuanced than you.

    The race realists like JD seem to like playing the martyr card as well. Is it Giordano Bruno syndrome? I might be wrong but at least they will burn me on the stake.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @CanSpeccy
  88. “I don’t think I’ve ever seen a black student graduate in the top quarter of the class, and rarely, rarely in the top half”

    The answer of course, is to make all our top 20 elite law schools 100% black, then blacks will be in the top quartile, top 1% etc. Imagine that, an entire class of Harvard Law School, Yale Law School, Columbia Law School, Penn Law School grads, all black. In fact, why stop at law school, simply make all our elite 20 schools 100% black in all departments. As Harvard, Stanford et al. finish polishing each cohort of these gems into diamonds, send these geniuses on to Africa, they are needed to build Wakanda.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  89. @Another Realist

    I can already hear the Libs whining, “But that’s our seat!”

  90. @Randal

    Second, culture is an off-shoot of biology. Asking blacks to act like whites is unfair. They aren’t white. They’ll never be white. You’re asking them to act like something that they’re not day in and day out.

    Wrong from the git-go. Culture is an offshoot of economics within the milieu.

  91. @utu

    Meh! I’d just tell him he is 1 for 4 and thank him for sharing his opinions.

  92. @Another Realist

    The problem then becomes that the government itself would become 100% black, since apparently only Ivy grads need apply for its top jobs.

  93. Randal says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Judging by the comments on this thread, a lot of people sincerely believe that IQ test measures the intelligence or cognitive ability. There is no scientific evidence for that whatsoever.

    You should probably take that up with one of the very many scientists working in the field of psychometrics who do use IQ test results as a useful proxy for cognitive ability. There’s one who posts here on Unz:

    James Thompson Archive

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  94. bjondo says:

    Send blacks to Israel where they can get money, homes, land for nuthin’. Where they can steal, murder, vandalize, deface, pollute with shit and urine, and be considered a citizen A +. Where they never have to be responsible, decent, human/humane.

    If they apply to an Ivy, acceptance is nearly 100% certain. Don’t worry about actual work achievement. Will be magna this summa that. Tribal profs will make sure.

  95. Randal says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Since the concept of IQ as a measure of intelligence is hardly intelligent, what is the point of insulting African-Americans by telling them that their kind is inherently intellectually inferior to Americans of other ethnic groups merely because, in the present state of society, their group has a lower mean IQ that some other groups in American society?

    How fortuitous that observed life outcomes and behaviour seem to conform broadly to what is predicted by IQ tests.

    Are we supposed to pretend that black collective behaviour is no different from that of whites, in the face of the incontrovertible statistical evidence? Do you have a better idea to explain that than the leftists’ disgusting and self-loathing notion of “blame whitey forever coz it’s all down to racism”?

    And do you think that the observed differences in physical characteristics that make eg professional US basketball virtually all black is down to white racism as well? Does it even occur to you to wonder whether, if physical characteristics can vary according to race, then so can intelligence (including multiple kinds of intelligence, if you prefer), which presumably depends upon physical characteristics in the brain and elsewhere? Or does your brain shut down immediately when approaching such thoughts, so as to avoid transgressing against approved dogma?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @dfordoom
  96. @Frederick V. Reed

    I have first-hand knowledge, Mr. Reed, of a big decline in one particular technical major that I know about. It’s been a major decline from just the early 1990′s to the early ’10′s, but I’d put most of it in the 2nd of those 2 decades.

    I would say that most of the cause is the huge university bubble that we are undergoing, due to US Feral Gov’t backing of student loans. Tuition goes up in proportion to how much students CAN borrow, as the universities have no stake in how this “investment”, mostly in 4-6 years of a good time, pans out. The banks will loan large amounts to anyone, no matter what major, and no matter how intelligent, as they also have nothing at all to lose, no matter the outcome. It’s a WIN/WIN/LOSE for the UNIVERSITIES/BANKS/TAXPAYERS respectively.

    Universities are making a killing, with the majority not going to professors, but for facilities, and lots of white-collar make-work dieversity-dean type jobs. They just want to fill seats now and get big grant money via the work of the relatively cheap Chinese/dot-Indian technical labor, and education is way down the list of priorites.

    Peak Stupidity has more on the financial and personal aspects of the University Bubble from personal experience. (That’s the 1st post, and the rest is here, here, and here.) Oh, and then there’s the textbook scam – not helping a bit.

  97. @Rosamond Vincy

    Is everyone happy now?

    No, not until it happens to me!

    (The witnesses can stay home on surf the web for this kinda stuff.)

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  98. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Randal

    Does it even occur to you to wonder whether, if physical characteristics can vary according to race, then so can intelligence (including multiple kinds of intelligence, if you prefer), which presumably depends upon physical characteristics in the brain and elsewhere?

    Look, I am not much inclined to go by credentials or to boast. But I did graduate in biology with the faculty prize, I did get a doctorate in molecular biology and I did hold three academic appointments, briefly all at the same time, two of them at among the world’s top 30 research schools. I have been a publisher of some of the highest impact scholarly journals in several fields of the life sciences and I have written a few thousand words about IQ and its deficiencies as a measure of intellect on other threads on this site.

    So I am not exactly a naive idiot to be talked down to by someone who seems to have little understanding of anything biological, and I am not inclined to repeat what I have said elsewhere on this site about IQ. But why don’t you read it if you’re so interested to know what it may have occurred to me to wonder?

    • Replies: @Randal
  99. JMcG says:
    @Another Realist

    I imagine that’s why they are attacking her now, to forestall exactly such a move. However, what are her views on the second amendment?

  100. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    I agree in the fist take on the level of sentiment and inclination to all four.

    I agree with you on all four.

    It just seems to me that the IQists are such a dunderheaded lot that the only way to make them think is to prod them relentlessly, even if that means resorting to a degree of hype.

    Of course blacks and whites and browns and reds are genetically different and must differ somwhat in intellect. It is that diversity that makes me, as a former scientific person, committed to the fight against mass migration and the destruction of the nation states. I am absolutely for diversity, which means fighting relentlessly against the idiot diversity argument for racial mixing.

    But as for black/white differences in America, who can say what is genetic and what is cultural and environmental in the present state of society?

    We know that blacks can rise to heights of intellectual distinction, people like Thomas Sowell, for example. Moreover, African Americans are as capable of moral excellence as any other racial group. Therefore, the continual race “realist” rant about black inferiority is insane. It is a monstrous provocation, unwarranted by any conclusive evidence. And if there were conclusive evidence, it would be best ignored, since we know that whatever underlay such evidence does not prevent black Americans from being among the finest of humanity, morally, intellectually, and physically, whatever may be the degraded state of of those condemned to life in America’s inner cities.

  101. @Randal

    Well, over the course of human history people believed all sorts of silly things. The existence of hundreds of different religions attests to that.

    • Replies: @Randal
    , @Carroll Price
  102. @Carroll Price

    Actually, I have noticed several Asians who are born with exceptionally high IQs. When I was in school, the theme was ‘orientals are very smart!’ so I dedicated my self to study hard, and do as they do. To my surprise, they are not smarter than any one else; what they do have is tenacity and aggressively study to outperform others. I did the same, and I did graduated ahead of all of them! Well, there it is. Jews do have that tenacity, and go out of their way to outperform others, especially their eternal enemy, the pale face, although most of them are pale faces, since they are conversos, or descendants of converted Talmudist. Whites, hating ‘whites’ for the simple thing that their white ancestors converted to Talmud-ism in the past. Religion, religion, religion.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
  103. Bel Riose says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    I fear I would fall into Category 1.

    Mud or rapiers: hmm….

  104. @Nicholas Stix

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize. Voltaire.

    Well, once the word Jew comes into the argument, its over! I wonder some times why the Idumeans, and Khazars are so special, and untouchable! You can say anything about blacks, whites, and others, so I wonder, is Ideumean/Khazar a race, or a religion, or what? If its religion, then is a fare game, as is Catholicism, Protestantism, etc. If race, then again fair game, such are the Irish, Brits, Germans, etc. so what is it?

  105. Randal says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Look, I am not much inclined to go by credentials or to boast. But I did blah blah…

    In other words, shorn of all the blather, yes it has occurred to you to consider those things.

    I might be inclined to read what you’ve written elsewhere if you hadn’t come across as such an arse, asserting absurdly: “Since the concept of IQ as a measure of intelligence is hardly intelligent” and later: “Race realists are simply foolish racists“, but since you did choose to make your point in such a fatuous way it suggests you are an obsessive campaigner and probably an antiracist dogmatist, rather than an objective scientist.

    Regardless there are plenty of alternative experts with far superior qualifications to you who do regard IQ, subject to appropriate limitations and precautions no doubt, as a legitimate proxy for intelligence. Given that common sense inclines me to their side, up to a point, I’ll consider arguments against it if they are made but I’m not impressed by mere appeals to authority, especially if the authority is your own.

    • Agree: lavoisier
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @CanSpeccy
  106. Randal says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Well, over the course of human history people believed all sorts of silly things

    That’s rather different from your asserting that there is “no scientific evidence whatsoever” for something that is the basis of many actual working scientists’ work.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  107. I write in defense of the law school dean at the U of Penn law school who barred Prof. Wax from teaching introductory courses on law. Having presumably accurately and publicly stated that in her experience few or no black law students were outstanding, what if in teaching an introductory class, a student black or white addressed or repeated that remark in class? Imagine a few black students present? Isn’t it hurtful to them to hear the Prof. confirm that in her experience etc.? Put yourself in the shoes of the putative black student! The black student(s) might likely take the matter to the dean. (These days, the professors are called to answer to the dean; in my day I was once called to the dean to answer to the charge of having hurt the feelings of my French professor. He had quoted the Peguy poem “Il n’y rien aussi beau qu’un enfant en faisant ses prières à Dieu” and I had laughed). So perhaps the dean acted prophylactically, figuring that it was best that Prof. Wax not teach introductory courses with black students present.

  108. @Randal

    There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that IQ test actually measures intelligence or something related to it. Just Google “Do IQ tests really measure intelligence?” and you will find a lot of evidence to the contrary.
    As to it being “the basis of many actual working scientists’ work”, this proves nothing, even if true. As we all know, if you believe that infinite growth is possible, you are either mad or an economist. Yet this belief is “the basis of many actual working scientists’ work”, at least if we assume that economics is a science. I can give many more examples, but what’s the point? Where beliefs start, science ends.

    • Replies: @Randal
  109. mcohen says:

    A small book,well thought out,similar to the laws of kosher and non kosher items is called for.it would have to be something the layman could understand.
    This “bible” would list all known chemicals that are toxic to this earth and humans.it would list where they are found and manufactured.
    We need it now.
    a little book of horrors to make humanity aware of the consequences of modern life.
    For instance are car exhaust fumes kosher or non kosher.does driving a car commit a sin by poisoning people.

    Any help would be appreciated in starting up my …..”little book of chemical horrors”

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  110. Randal says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Where beliefs start, science ends.

    That cuts both ways, of course. The impression I get is that belief is exactly what motivates you and others posting here to come and declare portentously that “there is no scientific evidence” for something that many, on the face of it at least equally qualified, people have devoted their lives to studying in the belief that there is scientific evidence for it.

    Just Google “Do IQ tests really measure intelligence?” and you will find a lot of evidence to the contrary.

    The existence of evidence to the contrary is entirely different from the assertion that “there’s no scientific evidence for it”. In any complex area of science there will usually be evidence pointing in both directions, and the process of science is one of gathering more evidence, and seeking to find answers that best fit all the evidence. The answer to the question you suggest, by the way, is obviously: “it depends what you mean by intelligence”.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  111. @Anonymouse

    That’s the politically correct way of hiding from uncomfortable truth: pretend that it does not exist. If the actual achievements of black students in that law school showed that Dr. Wax is wrong, the data would be widely publicized. The fact that the University keeps them under wraps says that she is right.
    Following your logic, the dean should switch off gravity when there is a lame student in class, lest it hurts his/her feelings. Or turn the lights off to make blind students feel like everybody else. Preposterous!

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
  112. @Randal

    Certainly, blacks adopting “grown up” norms would improve various metrics for them in many ways but is it what they really want and would it make them any happier. (I know that they like the stuff that white society produces, but they seem far happier acting black, even when such behavior leads to poor outcomes. The ride is just more fun to them.)

    Let’s invert this and say that whites would be “better off” adopting the grind culture that many Asians display. Would whites do better at school and work grinding away for an extra couple of hours a day? Yes. Would we produce more material goods? Yes.

    Would we be happier? I have my doubts.

    I’m simply saying that different population groups (races, ethnicities, etc.) tend to find their own sweet spot for various aspects of life which leads to very different societies. White society is not superior in a moral sense to black society which is not superior to Asian society . . . The societies are simply different, and, importantly, they fit the natural tendencies of their people.

    Trying to force one group to act like another group is unfair. Let them find the society that works best for them . . . in their own land (or community).

    • Replies: @Randal
  113. @Randal

    Although Occam was a monk, Occam’s razor (when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the one that makes the fewest assumptions) is the finest scientific tool ever invented. In complex (or any, for that matter) areas the scientists distinguish between a hypothesis (e.g., IQ test measures intelligence) and proven fact (e.g., the Earth revolves around the Sun). In the land of beliefs the Earth can be flat, or the Sun can revolve around the Earth, or all living things can be created by a super-natural agency in one go, or anything else you can think of (and many things you can’t even think of). That’s the difference between science and systems of beliefs. They represent opposite worldviews.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  114. @Achmed E. Newman

    I doubt Prof. Wax is likely to conduct herself in such a manner, and given the physical appearance typical of the sort of academics who might do so, are you quite certain you wish to research this subject so directly?

  115. @mcohen

    Write me, Mickey
    Write me all night long
    ‘Cause if you write me, Mickey
    I can grow up big and strong
    Would you like a Cadillac car?
    Or a guest spot on Jack Paar?
    How about a date with Hedy Lamarr?
    You gonna git it
    How’d you like to be a big wheel
    Dinin’ out for every meal?
    I’m the book that can make it all real
    You gonna git it
    I’m your genie, I’m your friend
    I’m your willing slave
    Take a chance, just write me and
    You know the kinda eats
    The kinda red hot treats
    The kinda sticky licky sweets
    I crave
    Come on, Mickey, don’t be a putz
    Trust me and your life will surely rival King Tut’s
    Take some initiative, work up the guts
    And you’ll git it

    • Replies: @mcohen
    , @Twodees Partain
  116. Randal says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    (I know that they like the stuff that white society produces, but they seem far happier acting black, even when such behavior leads to poor outcomes. The ride is just more fun to them.)

    I’m not sure there’s any reason to believe this, and there seems much to cause us to doubt it, for many blacks at any rate. Even if it were, children prefer to be left to play rather than made to learn how adults behave in society. Doesn’t mean they are happier in the long run if they are left to play.

    Let’s invert this and say that whites would be “better off” adopting the grind culture that many Asians display. Would whites do better at school and work grinding away for an extra couple of hours a day? Yes. Would we produce more material goods? Yes.

    If we were a minority in an Asian society constantly complaining about how our life outcomes were unsatisfying because Asians work harder, then yes I’d say the argument that we should collectively adopt Asian norms would be pretty substantive.

    Trying to force one group to act like another group is unfair.

    No, it isn’t. At least not when the “forcing” is just persuasion by pointing to better outcomes.

    Let them find the society that works best for them . . . in their own land (or community).

    In the end if one group won’t reduce or control behaviours that are unacceptable to the wider community (physical agggression, shooting, etc) then separation is a legitimate case to argue, for sure. But not on the basis of some kind of inherent “group nature” – that’s way too hippy for my liking.

  117. utu says:
    @Anonymouse

    Put yourself in the shoes of the putative black student!

    For the author and most commenters here this would be an impossible mental projection. Many of them still do not believe that blacks should be allowed to wear shoes.

  118. Anonymous[214] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Home schooling is not the answer. Thousands and thousands of small private schools is. I know so people who Ron one such place. Less that fifty kids, and practically everyone who works there has or had kids there.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
  119. If we were a minority in an Asian society constantly complaining about how our life outcomes were unsatisfying because Asians work harder, then yes I’d say the argument that we should collectively adopt Asian norms would be pretty substantive.

    Well, there’s the rub, isn’t it. Blacks want the material wealth created by white culture but would prefer to continue to act black. So long as they choose to enjoy the benefits of our society, you are correct in demanding that they act in accordance with that society.

    But not on the basis of some kind of inherent “group nature” – that’s way too hippy for my liking.

    How is genetics “hippy”?

    Cultures follow biology, which can over very long periods be influenced by culture. In my youth, I lived and travelled in Europe. There’s a reason why German culture is very different from Spanish culture. Germans are a bunch of frickin’ anal worry-worts in general, while the Spanish – again, in general – are far less so. Their cultures reflect that genetic difference. What’s more, it influences their productivity.

    German GDP per capita is ~$44,600 while Spain is ~$28,000. I’m sure that the Spanish could increase their GDP per capita by acting a bit more German or, as you call it, “grown up,” but you know what, they don’t want to. Trust me, they’d much rather be a bit poorer than to act German.

    Vive la difference!

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Randal
  120. Thomm says:
    @utu

    Since I am not an Indian, why would that matter to me?

    As a 70-IQ WN, you can’t register what you have been told umpteen times.

    Remember, you represent the waste matter that the white race expels genetically. If you and other WN wiggers were given a country, you would quickly make it worse than Haiti.

    You have no business taking credit for the success of normal whites like me. You are not the same race as successful whites.

    Get off my lawn, faggot!

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Daniel Chieh
  121. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Randal

    if physical characteristics can vary according to race, then so can intelligence (including multiple kinds of intelligence, if you prefer), which presumably depends upon physical characteristics in the brain and elsewhere?

    That’s very likely true, but we’re still a long way from a full understanding of intelligence, and from knowing precisely what it is that IQ tests measure. And we’re a very long way from being able to say how much of the variation in IQ tests is due to genes and how much is due to a whole grab-bag of social and cultural factors. HBD fans do seem to have a habit of overstating their case.

    • Replies: @Randal
  122. @CanSpeccy

    the continual race “realist” rant about black inferiority

    One thing I find annoying about the self-styled “race realists” is that they are not logically consistent. Their position is that the reasons that blacks doing poorly is genetics, i.e. they are born that way. Well, if that is your belief, then surely that obviates any moralizing, because… well, these people are born that way and simply cannot do any better.

    So moralizing makes no sense, right?

    BUT… what I observe is that these people have a constant moralizing discourse, this kind of sanctimonious tone.

    It really seems to me that these people should have to decide one way or the other. Either they believe that these people can’t do any better, so then it makes no sense to moralize. But if you do moralize, then you’re implicitly saying that these people are capable of doing better if they put their minds to it.

    Frankly, I think their position shifts around based on what gives them emotional satisfaction.

  123. @Rosamond Vincy

    I don’t know, Rosamund. It is easy to think the worst case will come true, but maybe it’ll work out more like Wizard of Oz hypothesizes. Students at an institution such as Penn Law have a huge investment in the success of their future careers, so maybe it might work more like I proposed in response to another poster who had similar views to yours about how Prof. Wax was doomed. Thusly:

    JerseyJeffersonian says:
    March 23, 2018 at 2:46 am GMT • 100 Words
    @kimchilover

    Anyone with a lick of sense will check out her (and all other faculty members’, too) curriculum vitae. It is posted on Penn Law’s website. When they see the stunning background and accomplishments of the woman in her diverse career, I should be amazed if they don’t choose to study with her instead of with Larry Leftist the non-entity, a faculty nebbish who is currently hissing at her through his spittle-flecked lips. You want to find a way into the upper reaches of the profession? Why not study with the one who has been there?

    I mean, it could happen.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  124. Svigor says:

    Sorry, brain fart: half of all Ashkenazi Jews have IQs below 108. The mean for non-Ashkenazi Jews is substantially lower.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  125. mcohen says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    So what route should i take to get submissions.the idea is to get retired academics and scientists to contribute.basically anyone with a working knowledge of dangerous chemicals etc

    My email is
    [email protected]

    So write me.i started this project in reaction to a vision i had of our sky turning a rust coloured yellow.my visions are seldom wrong.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  126. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Therefore, the continual race “realist” rant about black inferiority is insane. It is a monstrous provocation, unwarranted by any conclusive evidence.

    It’s politically amazingly stupid. The whole “race-realist” HBD thing pretty much guarantees that immigration restrictionism will never gain widespread acceptance, and that anyone trying to advance sensible arguments against immigration will be labelled as a neo-nazi white supremacist and ignored.

    In fact it’s so incredibly counter-productive that one can’t help suspecting it’s actually being pushed by the pro-immigration lobby as a way of entirely and permanently discrediting anti-immigrationists. Or that it’s being pushed by agents provocateurs.

    • Replies: @utu
  127. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Randal

    It’s worth noting that it won’t make a scrap of difference how much scientific evidence may or may not be found to support it, the HBD argument will never be politically acceptable and will therefore never be accepted. Scientific evidence is irrelevant. That’s not how science is done these days. If the scientific evidence is politically useful or likely to advance the scientist’s career it will be accepted. If it’s not politically useful or it’s likely to damage the scientist’s career it will be rejected.

    Anyone who thinks that scientific evidence matters to science today is living in a dream world. Just take a look at the climate change hysteria.

    • Replies: @Randal
    , @Wizard of Oz
  128. @CanSpeccy

    Of course blacks and whites and browns and reds are genetically different and must differ somewhat in intellect.

    Genes that select/determine “intellectual” configuration are selected for reproductive success, just like all the rest. Thus, any gene or gene-complex that survives, e.g. is selected for reproductive success, is a product of long-term selection processes, in most cases within a niche. Furthermore, the mutations that produce homo sapiens and other hominid branches also draw from the genes of the mutating parent. Quite probably, somewhere on the double helix are the remnants of genes from trilobite arachnomorph arthropods.

    Far be it from you or me to sneer at trilobites.

    • Agree: CanSpeccy
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Anonymous
  129. @Anonymous

    Home schooling is not the answer. Thousands and thousands of small private schools is.

    Eventually. For now, if you can get your kids out of those stagnant pools of de-evolution known as public schools, the better for them and you. Assuming the Deep State doesn’t just seize your kids and put them down. Rome was a liberal utopia compared to our Deep State overlords.

  130. @utu

    For the author and most commenters here this would be an impossible mental projection. Many of them still do not believe that blacks should be allowed to wear shoes.

    Wear ‘em, hell! I can’t afford gold-plated Air Jordans.

  131. @in the middle

    I did the same, and I did graduated ahead of all of them!

    Gracious, you “did graduated” didja?

    Gentleman’s C in English, right?

  132. GuyBig says:

    Amy Wax trades upon the prestige of Penn Law School to get gigs as a guest on Fox and CNN. Her unpopular views are supported by her prejudices, not by empiricism. Penn students and faculty get angry about her because when she exploits the school’s name and its achievements, she supports her opinions with the received opinions of the Right and Far Right repeated back and forth ad infinitum. No facts and no data back her up. She is Penn Law School’s version of the “economists” Stephen Moore and Lawrence Kudlow. She gets Penn’s name out in the marketplace of ideas, but what she says and how she says it, debases the school’s name.

  133. utu says:
    @dfordoom

    In fact it’s so incredibly counter-productive that one can’t help suspecting it’s actually being pushed by the pro-immigration lobby as a way of entirely and permanently discrediting anti-immigrationists. Or that it’s being pushed by agents provocateurs.

    A combination of useful idiots and agents provocateurs. It always works.

  134. @Another Realist

    I was fine until you starter this exposition on culture and IQ.

    I am going to be politically incorrect here. There are cultures but they are not related to color. Culture is the various practices and beliefs that are existent and practiced among a set group of people, unique to them when taken in the contexts of their lifestyle. And within cultures various groupings of people have their unique set of cultural attributes common to them. Cultures: Hispanic, Congolese, German, French, British . . .etc. are categories that denote a unique culture. I would agree skin color has not unique attributes that denote a culture. Within our “american culture” there are urban cultures, rural cultures, suburban cultures, etc. There are even neighborhood cultures. The academic culture that exists today spent most of its history largely keeping most blacks out of it. So it is safe to say that what culture exists remains part and parcel that which encompassed mostly white people. Fortunately, blacks established their own academic cultures with available resources and developed a culture that is not that far different than any other academic culture comprised of people with various cultural practices from their state, city or rural community. Given the relationship of academia to culture, it’s a safe bet that whatever the environmental spinoff of academic community to IQ was largely denied the black population in massive numbers as one might expect –

    I appreciated the smart culture — reference minus any serious press that it is primarily or singularly genetically more dominant in whites. While anything is possible, that code has not been discovered and is blighted by the distribution of DNA over several million years. We may find it is linked to societies but skin color is quite a leap.

    Since IQ is not unique (depending on what one understands IQ is) is not limited to any culture. Whether it is biological and or environmental and the unique interactions that impact a particular problem solving has not been explicated.

    I think Dr. Wax makes the correct assessment in general but her limited view of the sample as to magnitude of time and size leaves her with some serious hurdles. It’s convenient to ignore impacts long term. Whether she is correct that blacks are not in the top half is a difficult question. It would be interesting to consider how many whites inhabit the top half of her class and what the top half is. One would calculate her total number of students white and black. Consider the various courses of study. Background, etc. and do the same for the white students. Maybe most of the students who might excel in her courses don’t take them. Or aren’t ion her field. Given the population variance It would be interesting to consider the number of black students in her department. Even every black student finished at the bottom of her class, won would need far richer tests to determine why said students don’t and just what that has to do with skin color.

    While I agree with “smart culture” introduction, I have to make room for real history white or black and admit there are a lot of reasons people live as they do that has nothing to do with being smart. If a society wants its people to be a certain way they provide every avenue to assimilate said product. It’s a tough slice of bread to cut away a quarter of the loaf from the baking process and wonder why they aren’t baked like everyone else — especially when everyone else isn’t baked despite being part of the whole.

    No one calculating the impact of getting hit by a car ignores consequences such as impacts beyond broken legs or because of broken legs. Her model is missing a lot of components required to make the conclusions she made. It’s obvious that eventually, depending on the ability to heal up the wounds that eventually one would walk without crutches. But when that would be is another matter . . .

    Worse consider that the injured party has had to share said crutches by more than 60% plus with others who either didn’t need them, were not part of some other accident(?) and then constantly had to justify their very existence on every issue they address. It’s one thing to teach law, it’s quite another to apply and practice it – in an injury case.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  135. @Jonathan Revusky

    Their position is that the reasons that blacks doing poorly is genetics, i.e. they are born that way.

    Actually, we believe that blacks doing poorly is a result of both genetics and environment.

    Well, if that is your belief, then surely that obviates any moralizing, because… well, these people are born that way and simply cannot do any better.

    So moralizing makes no sense, right?

    I agree. I’ve mentioned more times than I count that much of what’s written on the iSteve comment’s board boils down to: Why don’t other races (black, Hispanic (yeah, I know it’s not a race), Asians, South Asians, etc.) act more like white people.

    The commentators around here are continually shocked, shocked to discover that population groups genetically (and culturally) different from whites don’t act like us, which, in turn, turns into moralizing.

    I don’t want to tell other races/ethnicities how to act or to chastise them for not being, well, like whites. Let them live how they want . . . as long as they live some place else.

    The nation-state truly is the best system. Live in your own societies governed by your own. What a crazy idea!

  136. utu says:
    @Thomm

    Go back to India. Take lots of TP with you.

  137. @CanSpeccy

    We know that blacks can rise to heights of intellectual distinction, people like Thomas Sowell, for example. Moreover, African Americans are as capable of moral excellence as any other racial group.

    Averages matter. Pointing out the exceptions doesn’t disprove the rule.

    We all understand outliers. We also understand regression toward the mean.

    Therefore, the continual race “realist” rant about black inferiority is insane. It is a monstrous provocation, unwarranted by any conclusive evidence.

    But blacks are on average inferior in terms of intelligence (however you want to define it). They are also superior in many athletic areanas.

    These are both true. Personally, I think the use of inferior or superior is silly. We’re just different – on average – and those average difference matter. The problem is when you force different population groups together and impose an ideology based on the false premise that they are capable in all endevors.

    And if there were conclusive evidence, it would be best ignored, since we know that whatever underlay such evidence does not prevent black Americans from being among the finest of humanity, morally, intellectually, and physically, whatever may be the degraded state of of those condemned to life in America’s inner cities.

    Outside of a few individual examples, please show me how blacks as a group have been among the “finest of humanity, morally, intellectually” populations in American history? (Note that I left out physically.)

    You’re tipping your hand, my friend. Pull the cards closer to the vest.

  138. utu says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Moralizing, emotional satisfaction,… The other day I was trying at iSteve to shift their attention while there was a feeding frenzy going but I failed. I tried to point out that among white population in the US there is 40 million strong White Subset that is IQ equivalent to whole population of Afro- Americans and somehow we do not spent much time and energy yapping about them and wondering what to do with them. So obviously the IQ issue is a sham.

    White population of the US contains a subset of whites who are equivalent in IQ to black population. Each member of this white subset can be matched with an African American of a similar IQ. The populations of both the white subset and that of African Americans are about 40 millions. Lets call them the White Subset.

    This White Subset is not being studied or nobody tracks their criminality as a group and their socio-economical successes and failures. No heavy guns of sociological science and psychometry are rolled out to explain their lives. No arguments about their IQ are being made. No controversy and no taboos.

    This White Subset does not have a separate identity as a social group. They do not know they exist. They do not have special organizations protecting them and fighting for their rights.

    This White Subset is completely artificial construct taken out from perfectly normal, nomen omen, normal distribution. Every mono-ethnic society has a normal distributions of various traits like abilities and so on. Some people are smarter than others and society can go on without paying much attention to such trivia and obviousness. Mono-ethnic countries like Germany, Sweden Poland each have their own White Subset and they managed to developed harmonious societies.

    If by some miracle of plastic surgery and skin color engineering we could give African Americans white external phenotype and furthermore make them forget their ethnic identity by some magic pill there would be very good chance that African Americans would become as invisible and as unnoticeable as the White Subset. The White Subset is out there and it does exist yet it does not matter.

    I want to clarify that I am strongly against any immigration to Europe of people who are different in external phenotype or who did not grow up in Christian culture or families. I do not believe that assimilation is possible for people of significantly different external phenotype or for Muslims or Buddhist in Europe. Any group if immigrants that can’t practice mimicry will not assimilated and will maintain a separate identity. But even mimicry is not sufficient. Jews did practice it but retained separateness and thus never assimilated.

  139. @mcohen

    Not a scientist myself, but I can tell you if you had your vision when you were driving through Queens at night, the sky really is that color.

    • Replies: @mcohen
  140. @JerseyJeffersonian

    It could, and I hope it does. What could also happen is that students will be afraid to study with her because the Larry Leftist non-entities outnumber her, and they could find little ways to sabotage her students, or at least make graduating a little more difficult.

  141. Corvinus says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “Cultures follow biology, which can over very long periods be influenced by culture. ”

    Certainly there is truth in what you say. But you have a knack for playing armchair anthropologist. Your observation about German and Spanish culture, for example, neglects to take into account environmental factors.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germans-are-worriers-irish-among-most-carefree-survey-1.1458201

    “Blacks want the material wealth created by white culture but would prefer to continue to act black.”

    Created? Surely you jest. As Paul Harvey stated “Once upon a time, we elbowed our way onto and into this continent by giving small pox infected blankets to native Americans. Yes, that was biological warfare! And we used every other weapon we could get our hands on to grab this land from whomever. And we grew prosperous. And, yes, we greased the skids with the sweat of slaves. And so it goes with most nation states, which, feeling guilty about their savage pasts, eventually civilize themselves out of business and wind up invaded, and ultimately dominated by the lean, hungry and up and coming who are not made of sugar candy.”

    Now let us assume, however, that Germans are worry-prone due to their genetics. Consider that research has shown that trauma, stress, and even nutrition can change the chemistry of the genetic code, making it possible to pass it to descendants. Many groups of people throughout human history have experienced long periods of war, which assuredly is traumatic and stressful. Apparently, there is research conducted by scientists at the University of Zurich that would indicate that extreme and traumatic events can change a person and years later affect their children. Taking their study into account, one could reasonably suggest that the cause of, say African and black angst, lies in the damage inflicted by Europeans.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140413135953.htm

    Not convinced? Well, there is this study that shows how one person’s life experience can impact subsequent generations.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes

    Ooops. Silly me. The study involves Jews and the Holocaust. Talk about a double hoax!

    “Certainly, blacks adopting “grown up” norms would improve various metrics for them in many ways but is it what they really want and would it make them any happier.”

    There is no such thins as “grown up” norms, nor have most blacks refused, forgot, or neglected to “adopt them”.

    “Trying to force one group to act like another group is unfair. Let them find the society that works best for them . . . in their own land (or community).”

    Absolutely. You must go back to your ancestors homeland. It is patently unfair that you have been forced by outsiders to act like us.

  142. @AnonFromTN

    Well, over the course of human history people believed all sorts of silly things.

    They still do. Large numbers of people accept both the New and Old Testament as indisputable fact.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @AnonFromTN
  143. @Anonymouse

    Isn’t it hurtful to them to hear the Prof. confirm that in her experience etc.? Put yourself in the shoes of the putative black student!

    So, what’s hindering black students from proving her wrong?

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
  144. @Johnny Smoggins

    I’m sure she’s very smart and talented but why isn’t she in Israel?

    Because she’s very smart and talented.

  145. Truth says:

    I see no “Amy Wax” pictured above.

    I could see an “Anthony Wax”, although that name may be a little prole considering, the person in question’s track record of faux-intellectualism.

    I could possibly go for “Anton Wax”, if this person were to grow a handlebar moustache, use a handful of mousse, and wear a dinner jacket.

    I would probably, however, settle upon “Allan Wax” though, knowing that this is a general choice for y-chromosome-holding children of the ersatz-Hebrew sect.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  146. …someone whose IQ is very likely a four-digit number.

    Lowest four-digit number, 1000, in various bases, converted to base 10:

    base equivalent
    2 — 8
    3 — 27
    4 — 64
    5 — 125
    6 — 216
    7 — 343
    8 — 512
    9 — 729
    11 — 1331
    12 — 1728

    I’m guessing Derb is working in base 5. A 150 IQ would be an 1100 5Q, 175 would be 1200, and 200 is 1300.

    Note that 1000 in base 12 is one shy of the Hardy-Ramanujan taxicab number. Is that a coincidence, or something obvious?

  147. @AnonFromTN

    Although Occam was a monk, Occam’s razor… is the finest scientific tool ever invented.

    “Although”, or “”because”?

    …or all living things can be created by a super-natural agency in one go

    As opposed to rubbing enough molecules together fast enough can create an internal point-of-view?

    When black people believe this, it’s called animism. When white or yellow people believe it, it’s called neuroscience.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  148. @Truth

    There’s our Truth again, waxing pathetic.

    • Replies: @Truth
  149. Joe Wong says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “I have read a number of books on the Chinese Cultural Revolution. One thing to be learned is that the evil starts with control of the little ones. The things that the Chinese children were brainwashed to do to their OWN PARENTS was sickening, and makes you really understand that a big pillar of Communism is destruction of the family.”

    It seems you can’t see the wood for the trees, without realizing you are the victim of fake news and brain washing by those books on the Chinese Culture Revolution which were written by the haunted and evil minded people insisting to destroy world peace for personal gains by making people pit against each other with blinding hatred thru feeding you with amplified hearsays, lies, selecting reporting and distorted manufactured consent.

    You should know you are made to pay somebody who wants you to hate someone who has no relation to you, and you know nothing about them. Paying bunch of money to brought upon yourself load of unnecessary stress thru the thin air, this is really something beyond No Stupid Left Behind.

    • Replies: @HogHappenin
  150. Joe Wong says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The West (Europeans and their offshoots like the American, Aussie, etc.) is where is now, because of those hundreds of millions of people all over the world who were robbed and murdered, those who become victims of their very madness of colonialism and orientalism, of the crusades and the slave and Opium trades. Cathedrals and palaces, museums and theatres, train stations – all had been constructed on horrid foundations of bones and blood, and amalgamated by tears. There were so many centuries of plunder that the acts of looting the world of the ‘Western existence and culture’, something that get almost never addressed, let alone criticized.

    The West squandered all the wealth they obtained thru stealing, looting and murdering hundreds of millions of people all over the world in the scrabbling of a dog-eat-dog play rough over the monopoly to plunder the rest of the world through two World Wars, one on the edge of Armageddon, and on the verge of another Armageddon.

    The United States for 150 years has been overthrowing government, bombing, killing and waterboarding throughout Latin America, throughout the Middle East, in Europe, and in SE Asia on the fabricated phantom allegations. The number of young, old, men and women killed, maimed and crippled, as well as families destroyed and dislocated are in the hundreds of millions if not billion, yet the Americans still claim morality is their birth right and continue their butchering and war crimes as humanitarian intervention, the cold blood and psychopathic American deed is beyond sickening, they are isane and evil.

  151. @Joe Wong

    That is what marinating in more than a century worth of Zionist lies and deceit can do to a people. This process got accelerated after the fraudulent scofield reference ‘bible’ was introduced into the US.

    I’m glad the Chinese are not as easily blackmailed and persuaded to do the bidding of the (un)chosenites and I hope you guys stay that way! Uncle Sam, due to the continuous prodding of Uncle Schmuel is definitely old and tired, nearing his eventual death. He is old and cranky and at his worst. I just hope we get a soft landing and don’t take down the rest of the world with us.

    I’ve thankfully left that madhouse circus sometime back to settle near your environs and I couldn’t be happier. But the shadow of Empire is never too far even here. And with ready goyim like Mr, Newman here, a war is never too far

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  152. Truth says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    And there’s our Reg again, one blind-azz MF.

  153. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Randal

    I might be inclined to read what you’ve written elsewhere if you hadn’t come across as such an arse, asserting absurdly: “Since the concept of IQ as a measure of intelligence is hardly intelligent” and later: “Race realists are simply foolish racists“

    Of course, my dear boy, you are not obliged to read anything at all. But here, for anyone who is interested in the case for abandoning the notion that IQ measures intelligence, is a link to what I believe is a valid scientific argument.

    In addition, there is the fact that by common usage, “intelligence” is a concept much broader than IQ. In particular, it includes every form of genius, musical, artistic, mathematical, however autistic, brain damaged or seemingly moronic the individual of genius may be in domains other than their peculiar talent.*

    I will however concede that people who score high on IQ tests are generally of high academic ability, which in turn is generally indicative of good career prospects.

    What I reject is that IQ measures some unitary property of mind that underlies achievement in all fields of human endeavor. Rather, it indicates only that IQ measurements have some utility as a proxy for assessing academic aptitude, which is to say the ability to achieve in a school system designed to develop the skills required in the higher reaches of the employment market. But that does not mean that the work of a competent tax consultant, proctologist or divorce lawyer constitutes the sole or highest manifestation of intelligence.

    ———
    *Paul Dirac, for example, one of the great minds of the 20th century, so it is said by those who understand him, was so inarticulate that friends honored him by naming after him a unit of verbal communication, the Dirac, which was defined as the utterance of one word per hour.

    • Replies: @Randal
  154. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Carroll Price

    Large numbers of people accept both the New and Old Testament as indisputable fact.

    And other people accept the Bible as a narrative to live by, the literal truth of which is irrelevant.

  155. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    I do not believe that assimilation is possible for people of significantly different external phenotype or for Muslims or Buddhist in Europe.

    That is why, when they can get away with it, the act not as immigrants intent on assimilation but as settlers intent on conquest. For example in Latvia:

    Speaking in an interview with Latvia’s Morning Independent newspaper, the chairman and head spokesman of the Islamic Cultural Centre, better known as Riga Mosque, said:

    Islam will replace Christianity in Europe just as Christianity replaced Paganism centuries ago, and it will conquer by womb rather than the sword to make Latvia an Islamic State.

  156. Anonymous[311] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnonFromTN

    All tests can be gamed through practice, even IQ tests. With the importance of IQ nowadays, any school worth its reputation will have the kids practising IQ tests regularly as soon as they can read. Mastering these tests will become a curriculum subject like any other.

    • Replies: @Carroll Price
  157. @Thomm

    I think your theory of mind regarding utu and his intentions are quite off. He’s become one of my favorite commentators for a reason.

    • Replies: @res
    , @Truth
  158. grapesoda says:
    @utu

    When you don’t have a convincing argument, just make shit up! It never fails for the leftist media. A bunch of you clueless idiots are going to believe it regardless.

    Affirmative action, welfare, race-based set-asides… no matter how many special privileges white people give to blacks, you little crybabies are going to bitch and moan. Fine, get rid of all of it then. Let’s put you in a country like Nigeria and see how much you like it. Just whine like a little bitch and make shit up. You know you can’t compete so that’s all you got left.

  159. grapesoda says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    I have no idea what you are babbling about. Please reference an actual instance of this and address that instead of arguing against a straw man.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  160. mcohen says:
    @Rosamond Vincy

    I had my vision while riding a Knight across a paisley board.He shook and whinnied like the grand beast he had become.The king fled to the upper easy side and was last seen having breakfast with tiffany at Jareds.
    One has to wonder at the follies of human existence.
    In france 70% of bird species have disappeared

    https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/catastrophe-as-frances-bird-population-collapses-due-to-pesticides

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/18/warning-of-ecological-armageddon-after-dramatic-plunge-in-insect-numbers&ved=2ahUKEwj9nZWNvJPaAhWCoZQKHRrbCzIQFjABegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw1jMYZLOVIdJ1NtyQGKVCH5&ampcf=1

    Birds and insects are an indespensible part of our ecosystem.

    Next time you drive through queens give it some thought

    My vision of our sky turning yellow is frightening and i despair for my childrens future.it is a warning that needs to be taken seriously

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  161. @AnonFromTN

    Dear Anon from Tennessee,

    I said the opposite of what you objected to.

    I’ve had my feelings hurt, who hasn’t? I just got Amy Wax’s book out of the library but have only read about 5 pages. She is of the school of Bill Cosby, as she says: self-improvement is required on the part of Negroes. As John Derbyshire pointed out, she notices black behavior but does not express any hint of recognizing anything about African-Americans that keeps them from exercising self-control. I gotta a lot of things to do so I might not get back to reading Wax. I’d bet a nickel that she doesn’t address the cultural issue, that Caribbean blacks in America exercise self-control like socialized white Americans, but Afro-Americans seem to have reinvented the life-style of swidden agriculture: women hoeing tubers and the guys getting drunk every day.

    In grammar shool (7th grade?) I had a crazy white lady teacher, Miss Black (no significance to the name). She had the whole class read Revelations (I kid you not, she had lots of copies). She told the jewish students (about 4 out of 20) that they would burn in hell because they killed Christ. Mothers whose kids were having nightmares complained to the principle Mr Shapiro about Miss Black. He gave her a pass because she was 1 or 2 years from retirement. Retrospectively, fast-forward 75 years, I bring up this amusing memory as an extreme case of having one’s feelings hurt in school.

    RU suggesting that it is a good thing for a black student to hear that because of his genetic inheritance, he may hit the wall when law school gets to the hard stuff.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  162. @Carroll Price

    The thoughtful black in that class would be afraid that she is right, not wrong.

    How do blacks come to terms with it when an individual realizes that he is lacking in smarts like everyone else in that neighborhood?

    I’ve been asking women if as children their sex was explained to them. They say no. They all report a gradual habituation to the facts of the matter. Must be the same with blacks. Gwen Ifull that dear woman said she didn’t check every morning to see whether her skin was black.

  163. Randal says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    How is genetics “hippy”?

    Because the reality is that people don’t have spooky, spiritual “natures” that determine their entire future. They have genetics that establish dispositions, and in practice most will follow those dispositions unless encountering pressure, in which case many will repress their natural inclinations and live perfectly happily in a manner other than their unshaped nature might prefer. It’s not a blank slate, but it is a matter of constant interaction and feedback. The idea that we have a “nature” determined forever at (or rather before) birth is inherently hippyish. It’s what the sex change sickos appeal to when they claim to be “a man trapped in a woman’s body”, or vice versa. It’s the fanatic’s equivalent on the other side of the blank slate zealotry, when all of human life suggests the truth is somewhere in between.

  164. Randal says:
    @dfordoom

    HBD fans do seem to have a habit of overstating their case.

    Indeed, but nevertheless between them and the antiracist dogmatists together with all the fearful conformists who go along with them, it is the latter which are the problem and the former which represent the solution.

  165. Randal says:
    @dfordoom

    It’s worth noting that it won’t make a scrap of difference how much scientific evidence may or may not be found to support it, the HBD argument will never be politically acceptable and will therefore never be accepted.

    That’s needlessly defeatist talk (and I accept that I’m hardly one to accuse, in this regard).

    In reality, such intellectual fashions as the current antiracist dogmas tend to be totally dominant and seemingly irreplaceable – right up until they are swept away wholesale and replaced with a different dominant world-view. That is most likely what will happen with antiracism.

    Truth is not determinative, but it is a vital force multiplier in the conflict between such world-views, and the HBDers have more truth than do the antiracists, regardless of the fact that some HBDers do take their ideas too far. The reality is that the current antiracist elite consensus is extremist and fanatical, equivalent on the other side of the argument to the most dogmatic HBDers you could find here controlling society, and it is catastrophically damaging.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  166. @res

    res wrote:

    As long as effects are roughly additive, we know that changing ALL or MOST of these (-) variants into (+) variants would push an individual many standard deviations (SDs) above the population mean. Such an individual would be far beyond any historical figure in cognitive ability.

    Or, maybe, if you flip them all to (+), you become super-intelligent but also super-insane.

    One reason that might happen is that intelligence (at least visual-spatial intelligence) is connected with the ability to create and manipulate mental images. Perhaps people with a super-human ability in that area just get lost in their own mental images.

    I did my undergrad degree at Caltech, the most academically selective school in the country (we looked down on MIT and laughed at the Ivies — yeah, I know, they made more money than we did), and I knew a number of truly brilliant math majors. Based on that experience, I find my hypothesis more than plausible.

    • Replies: @res
    , @Daniel Chieh
  167. Randal says:
    @CanSpeccy

    In addition, there is the fact that by common usage, “intelligence” is a concept much broader than IQ. In particular, it includes every form of genius, musical, artistic, mathematical, however autistic, brain damaged or seemingly moronic the individual of genius may be in domains other than their peculiar talent.*

    I disagree with this assertion of yours. I did read your comments on the other thread, and they seemed rather argumentative and dogmatically motivated.

    In reality, the usage of “intelligence” to cover other areas of what you better term “genius”, such as sporting or musical talent is relatively recent in ordinary discourse and rather idiosyncratic in origin, though it has become more widespread over recent decades as it suits the modern leftist dogmas of inclusiveness and open mindedness.

    David Beckham is (or was) a footballing genius with a remarkable ability to identify and execute a perfect pass under pressure, but nobody but a deluded fanboy or a football commentator would honestly describe him as “intelligent” based upon that. “Able”, fine, even “genius”, but not “intelligent”.

    Insofar as intelligence tests have tried to take account of such other aspects of human competence they become “ability tests” and not intelligence tests. And that clearly is an issue with “IQ” tests. But it doesn’t completely invalidate the approach, as you claim.

    Your position reminds me of the classically dishonest one adopted by Jared Diamond at the beginning of Guns Germs and Steel wherein he dismisses the most obvious answer to the question he poses for reasons of political correctness dogma – it’s not allowed to be true because it would be immoral – and goes on to construct all sorts of complicated alternative explanations, many of which are perfectly clever and probably also contributory:

    The difference is that Diamond marketed Guns, Germs, and Steel as the definitive politically correct answer to the query that must trouble anyone with much awareness of the world: Why are some races of humans so much more economically and scientifically productive than other races?

    Diamond charmingly phrased this as Yali’s Question, after a Melanesian cargo cultist the UCLA physiologist had met on a bird-watching trip to New Guinea:

    “Why is it that you white people developed so much cargo and brought it to New Guinea, but we black people had little cargo of our own?”

    It’s not that New Guineans don’t care about cargo. In fact, after observing American and Australian military men deposit upon jungle airfields vast quantities of delightful goods, they formed cargo cults to replicate the white man’s magic. As William Manchester recounted in Goodbye, Darkness: A Memoir of the Pacific War:

    The native is no dummy. He can imitate any rite. He puts together a facsimile of a telephone with tin cans and string. He shuffles papers and speaks into the can; then he searches the sky, predicting, “Moni i kam baimbai.” (“Money he come by and by”)…

    Frustrated, a New Hanover tribe formed a “Lyndon B. Johnson cult” in the 1960s. Even in New Guinea people knew that nobody was more effective with gadgets and telephones than Lyndon Johnson…. Somehow they amassed sixteen hundred dollars for a one-way ticket from Washington to Moresby and sent the ticket to the White House. Johnson didn’t arrive…. It seems a pity. LBJ would have made a marvelous king of the blackfellows, and he would have enjoyed the job immensely.

    And, of course, Diamond’s readers assumed that the racial disparities in accomplishment couldn’t be because some races had been evolving under conditions that select more for, say, foresight or cooperation. In contrast, New Guineans, living on the equator, have less need to worry about how to prepare for onrushing winter than do, say, Swedes or Koreans.

    “Most readers have never noticed that Diamond’s own Darwinian logic undermines the reassuring moral of his book.”

    No, that just couldn’t be true. After all, Diamond says, New Guineans strike him as smarter on average than Americans. Granted, Diamond didn’t have any evidence for this assertion of his, other than evolutionary hand-waving:

    …natural selection promoting genes for intelligence has probably been far more ruthless in New Guinea than in more densely populated, politically complex societies…

    In reality, larger populations are more likely to enjoy rare favorable mutations.

    And no justification for Diamond’s hypothesis has emerged in the two decades since Guns, Germs, and Steel was published.

    http://takimag.com/article/rough_diamond_steve_sailer/print#axzz5BED0bVIH

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  168. @Wizard of Oz

    I think she still looks pretty fierce to me. ;-)

  169. @dfordoom

    There seem to be a lot of people on these threads with something possibly interesting or true to say who spoil the discussion by overstatement. May I suggest that you have offered an overstatement which is obvious on reflection.

    You assert , without qualification, that anyone who thinks that scientific evidence matters to science today is living in a dream world. Wrong I suggest to some degree in relation to all science but absolutely wrong in relation to the science for which billions of dollars is spent to gather evidence with, for example, the Large Hadron Collider, the Hubble Telescope and the tunnels and laser beams used to detect gravitational waves.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Bill
  170. @Rosamond Vincy

    Ros, I love you, gal, but that was just triflin’. ;-)

  171. @Randal

    Well put.

    Was it that review by Steve that caused Jared Diamond to withdraw from participation in Steve’s Human Biodiversty egroup?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  172. @Joe Wong

    There is some truth in this, but reality is a bit more complex.
    The excellent Dutch 17th century sailing ships had nothing to do with murder or plunder, we designed and built them.

    The Dutch 17th century wealth, overestimated, did hardly come from far away, but from trade within Europa, we were, over sea, halfway between the Baltic and Russia and France and Spain and Portugal.

    The British steam engine was developed out of a coal driven water pump for mines, this made possible the railways, later steam ships.
    Difficult to see how plunder was involved, or inhuman practices, on the contrary, the pumping by hand could be abolished.
    Cannot think of any culture but the European who developed technology as this.

    That this technology as used for bloody colonial enterprises is true.
    Alas colonialism is not a European invention.
    As an example, the Inca’s were great colonialists.
    Colonialism in Africa before white man was there, more than enough examples.
    Britons are sometimes called Anglo-Saxons, the Saxons were the colonialists, long ago.

  173. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Randal

    In reality, such intellectual fashions as the current antiracist dogmas tend to be totally dominant and seemingly irreplaceable – right up until they are swept away wholesale and replaced with a different dominant world-view. That is most likely what will happen with antiracism.

    That is of course quite plausible although it could probably only happen in the aftermath of a major political change sea-change, such as the final abandonment of the entire charade of liberal democracy.

    A regime that no longer bothers even to pay lip service to liberal democracy might decide that antiracist dogmas (and other PC dogmas) are no longer either necessary or useful.

    It could be an authoritarian regime of either the left or the right that decides that PC has outlived its usefulness. Such a regime change does seem quite possible.

  174. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    You assert , without qualification, that anyone who thinks that scientific evidence matters to science today is living in a dream world.

    You’re right. I should have qualified that. Anyone who thinks that scientific evidence matters more to science today than political correctness, careerism and maintaining the flow of funding is living in a dream world.

    but absolutely wrong in relation to the science for which billions of dollars is spent to gather evidence with, for example, the Large Hadron Collider, the Hubble Telescope and the tunnels and laser beams used to detect gravitational waves.

    If the Large Hadron Collider provided evidence that conflicted with the dogmas of political correctness I’m confident that such evidence would be suppressed and that funding for the Large Hadron Collider would suddenly dry up.

    Doing science today is a political act because in our world everything is a political act.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  175. Joe Hide says:

    Great writing. “4 digit I.Q
    ” …really funny. Keep it up!

  176. Xenos says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    You were lucky to have Michael Levin as your logic prof. He is a superb intellect, and the author of one of the most rigorously argued defense of race realism ever published. It is “Why Race Matters” (1997), and Jared Taylor’s American Renaissance has republished it in paperback, and in Kindle through Amazon.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  177. @Anonymous

    Assuming black students are allowed equal (probably greater) access to practice material as non-black students, would lead one to assume that successfully practicing for IQ test requires the same basic IQ necessary for achieving high scores on IQ test.

  178. @EliteCommInc.

    This demonstrates a rather poor understanding of current intelligence or neurological research in general. Culture or environmental factors certainly play a role, but intelligence is highly hereditary as per the twin studies. Many of the objections that “genetics cannot influence behavior” exhibit a ridiculous level of sophistry. It is akin to hormone production, and indeed, directly related at times: genetics influence hormone production, hormones influence neurotransmitter chemicals, neurotransmitter chemicals influence behavior including what we might call intelligence.

    Anyone who insists that genetics do not influence hormones(and thus behavior) needs to deny the existence of male and females…which I guess some people are working on. And that’s just one vector by which genetics can influence behavior.

  179. @HogHappenin

    Hey, I’m not a defender of all things American, especially the recent stuff (say, since the Constitution started getting ignored.)

    I hate to write things like this on Unz, but both of you guys are just fucking nutcases.

  180. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Steve Gittelson

    Genes that select/determine “intellectual” configuration are selected for reproductive success, just like all the rest. Thus, any gene or gene-complex that survives, e.g. is selected for reproductive success, is a product of long-term selection processes, in most cases within a niche.

    This is sound Darwinian theory. But it is almost entirely irrelevant today, when the civilizations of the world are undergoing explosive transformation. Thus, however intellectually well adapted to their environment the Europeans may have been in times past, it is clear that they are severely ill-adapted today. They have a fertility rate far below replacement and they have a political system that subjects them to an genocidal elite that is replacing them with more fertile racial/cultural immigrant groups.

    Thus, however, superior in intellect whites are claimed by the race “realists” to be, they are clearly losing out in the evolutionary race to other groups, and very rapidly. Indeed they will be eliminated both in the US and most of Europe as the majority group within the life time of most of those alive today.

    Thus, without a radical change government policies, which would have to include an explicit and effective strategy for national survival, the Europeans best hope of posterity will be as contributors to the gene pool of today’s invasive groups. That is why the former French President Sarkozy stated that “miscegenation is an obligation.” Submit to the invader or know that you and your race and culture will expire without trace.

    But since most people are too busy with FaceBook, and other crap probably the white race is already doomed.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
  181. res says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    He’s become one of my favorite commentators for a reason.

    Could you elaborate? I am not seeing what you are seeing.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  182. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Any group if immigrants that can’t practice mimicry will not assimilated and will maintain a separate identity. But even mimicry is not sufficient.

    Maybe the US needs to reverse the decision of the Civil War, and declare the Southern States a black homeland, as they would inevitably have become had the Confederacy not been defeated. Then white southerners would be required to move North, while black Northerners would be required to move south and everyone could then live happily ever after.

    • Replies: @utu
  183. @Joe Wong

    A portion of my understanding about the Chinese Cultural Revolution comes directly from Chinese people I know, as their personal experiences. What I see happening lately is that this kind of mess is starting in the US too. It won’t finish the same way. Almost all the good people are armed and there are a couple of million home-schooled kids who don’t receive all the bullshit.

    You are not just a bullshitter, Joe Wrong, but I can see you are a total nutcase. Why don’t you go live in China? You will never understand the real America and Americans, as your mind doesn’t have good qualities necessary. The concept of freedom that many still get is at a higher level than your brain can attain.

    You can put your victimizations in a sack, son. As far as destruction and mayhem, all governments are a party to this, but your Chinese one is in a class by itself – I don’t know if it’s a plus that the 30-40 million killed just in the last century are your own damn people. This is why I don’t like ANY governments, but, again, freedom is beyond you.

    For the rest of the readers here, you’ve seen that commercial. “For the last time. You’ve seen Communism. Joe Wong is your brain on Communism.”

  184. @dfordoom

    “Doing science today is a political act because in our world everything is a political act.”

    I’d tend to agree. There’s also the fact that much of the current scientific work is funded with federal money, at least that which isn’t done at the behest of one corporation or other.

  185. @res

    He’s the literary equivalent of the Blood Knight trope. And clearly has a lot of fun, which is rather inspiring in these days.

    • Replies: @res
  186. res says:
    @PhysicistDave

    Or, maybe, if you flip them all to (+), you become super-intelligent but also super-insane.

    I basically agree with you, but think there is a decent chance you would just be dead thanks to some unexpected interaction (e.g. an undetected case of heterozygote advantage where homozygous recessive is fatal, something like Tay-Sachs disease is thought to be).

    There is a decent argument made that simple genetic “spell checking” (e.g. removing all low frequency alleles that have negative IQ coefficients) would be likely to be purely positive. However, your point still applies there.

    Or we could go off into the philosophical deep end and wonder whether if there was a large enough group of beyond super brilliant math majors they would seem more sane and we would seem less so.

    P.S. You probably know this already, but the person who wrote the excerpts I gave is another Caltech physics undergrad–Steve Hsu.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
  187. @PhysicistDave

    Or, maybe, if you flip them all to (+), you become super-intelligent but also super-insane.

    I suspect this as well – its very probably that you can get a lot more productivity and output from someone with highly sensitive dopamine system, but such a person would also be very prone to addictions(esp. gambling) or even actual mania symptoms.

  188. @mcohen

    I drove through Queens only once, when my then-boyfriend poisoned himself with Mead on Wrong Island and I had to drive the Chevy Blazer back to Queens and spend 20 minutes see-sawing to parallel-park it in a typically overcrowded block. The rest of the time, I took public trans like everybody else.

  189. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    Listen WoZ, if you think comparing my ideas with those of Jared Diamond is “Well put” you can GFY. For one thing, I’m no plagiarist.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  190. @CalDre

    Your ignorance of Spearman’s g — its nature, correlates, and measurement — is dreary. Please inform yourself before commenting again on this subject.

    TYVM/HAND.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  191. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    What US needs or does not need to do that is entirely another issue. The fragmentation and clusterization of society to large extend because of unassimilated former slaves who rejected and were rejected by the dominant culture because of their skin color is what TPTB want also for the whole world.

    Europe can still be saved if African and Muslim and Asian immigration is stopped. If not it will follow American model. The racial grievances that exists in America will eventually develop in Europe. This is inevitable when the groups can’t and won’t practice mimicry.

  192. res says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Thanks! This helped me understand what you meant: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BloodKnight

    I have always read utu more as posting in anger than fun (don’t know if you have seen our go rounds). His frequent use of ad hominems is a big part of that perception. I will try your POV on for size and see if it helps.

    P.S. After reading that page I am curious if I come off as a bit of a Blood Knight to you. Some parts of that description resonate with me more than they should perhaps ; ) (others, not so much)

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  193. @CanSpeccy

    This is sound Darwinian theory. But it is almost entirely irrelevant today, when the civilizations of the world are undergoing explosive transformation.

    Darwinian processes, or evolutionary processes, are not “theory”.

    It is not entirely clear to me what point you are trying to make. The genes and gene complexes affecting applicable “intelligence” continue to function in the same ways that caused them to be selected. While some people believe the factors those selections impact are “different”, you sure couldn’t prove it to me. Or, to be less kind, you cannot prove it at all.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  194. @Rosamond Vincy

    If you know how to build a trebuchet with a max velocity of 360 fps, specify medieval technology and accept the challenge… See also, punkin’ chunkin’.

    • Replies: @Rosamond Vincy
  195. @Mishra

    Seriously – have you SEEN this woman’s CV? It’s easily findable on the internet, I’m not going to find it for you. She is astounding.

    It’s only fair that Derb brought up her ethnicity. On these pages Jews are Public Enemy No. 1.

    • Replies: @HogHappenin
  196. Professor Wax’s CV is mind-boggling, at least, to this underachiever. I think she got the law degree almost as an afterthought, well, this would be nice, I’ve already got degrees in molecular biophysics – wouldn’t it be fun to argue a case before the Supreme Court?

    Professor Wax waxes the opposition every time, but I think that she might have come up against the zeitgeist once and for all. She won’t/can’t be fired, but she can be frozen out.

  197. @Carroll Price

    I know. People believe even more ludicrous things. Have you ever read The Book of Mormon? It’s in every hotel room in Utah, along with the Gideon Bible. It reads like an angry parody on the Bible, yet some people take it very seriously.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  198. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Steve Gittelson

    Darwinian processes, or evolutionary processes, are not “theory”.

    Not sure what you are trying to say, Steve. I said that your statement that “Genes that select/determine “intellectual” configuration are selected for reproductive success …” was sound Darwinian theory.

    You apparently dispute that. Why? Because you dispute that Darwin’s “Theory of Evolution” is a theory, or because you dispute the soundness of Darwin’s theory, or what?

    You say:

    It is not entirely clear to me what point you are trying to make.

    so let me say it again:

    however intellectually well adapted to their environment the Europeans may have been in times past, it is clear that they are severely ill-adapted today.

    What’s not to understand? It’s an obvious fact. The Europeans are failing to reproduce themselves, while they invite people from elsewhere to “come on in and replace our posterity with your own.” So clearly they are ill-adapted to their present environment, an environment that they themselves, or at least their ruling elites, have created.

    And the deadly aspect of that environmental change is cultural. So the adaptation of the European mind to conditions of the past now makes Europeans mal-adapted since it has driven them to create a culture—a liberal-libertarian, atheistic, cheap-thrill culture—that is rapidly destroying them.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
  199. @Reg Cæsar

    1. Certainly “although”, because being a Christian monk, he must have believed some pretty odd fairytales.

    2. This argument is old and tired. The process of evolution took ~ 3 billion years, because no complex entity (like a protein) ever emerged from nothing. The process went from simpler entities to more complex, in many rounds (say, amino acid, sequence motif, structural domain, modern protein). One has to remember that bacterial proteins evolved just as long as ours. People familiar with biology cannot explain the way modern life works without evolution. Just to give you one example: our mitochondria have their own genome, as well as faster and better-working eubacteria ribosomes (the entities that make proteins encoded by messenger RNA), but the cell uses larger and much slower archebacterial ribosomes for the same purpose, simply because eukaryotic cell emerged as a symbiosis of aerobic eubacteria (mitochondria in us; mitochondria and chloroplasts in plants) with anaerobic archebacteria (the rest of the cell). Still, I think the most convincing (especially for the uninitiated) argument against intelligent design is George W. Bush – nobody intelligent would ever design that.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  200. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    Have you ever read The Book of Mormon? It’s in every hotel room in Utah, along with the Gideon Bible. It reads like an angry parody on the Bible, yet some people take it very seriously.

    I think you’re missing the point. Religions are cultural artifacts that establish society-wide ethical standards, without which large communities requiring frequent collaboration among strangers would fail.

    The fact that the Bible or the Book of This or That cannot be taken literally without making the believer appear ridiculous to a materialist, is simply a consequence of cultural change. The materialist view of the world destroys traditional religious faith and, as a consequence of the demise of religious faith, the most scientifically advanced societies are undergoing a demographic catastrophe.

    Thus it appears that there is no means to prevent the demise of the West without a religious revival. There are several routes by which that might be achieved:

    1. Karen Armstrong has argued that since the Bible is supposed to be the word of God, it must be true for all time. But since public understanding of the world changes with time, the truth of the Bible can only be understood through continual re-interpretation. Thus, today, it makes nonsense of Chrisitanity to read the Gospels as, well, gospel truth. On the contrary, the Bible or other holy scripture must be viewed simply a narrative to live by. Viewed that way, it’s still pretty powerful stuff.

    2. The Bible might be entirely revamped, without miracles and angels, etc. Leo Tolstoy did that with the gospels, but frankly his gospel makes dull reading. Such dreary stuff will never fly.

    3. Religion is made a state responsibility and is enforced by way of the educational system and the courts. That is what the West has opted for. It’s called political correctness. Trouble is, political correctness, unlike a true religion, does not save it adherents, it destroys them.

    • Replies: @res
    , @AnonFromTN
    , @Reg Cæsar
  201. @Anonymouse

    Here you are mixing hypotheses (like Hell, which is absent in many religions, including the original Abrahamic faith that evolved into present-day Judaism) with proven facts. Your teacher assumed that her faith (which can be called a hypothesis at best, if one is extremely charitable) is the Truth. Having grown up in the USSR, I feel immunized against many kinds of BS – whenever something is claimed to be the Truth with a capital T, be it communism or any other religion, I smell the rat. It might sound cynical, but it helps.

  202. @Another realist

    Jason Riley is married to the Jewess Naomi Schaefer. Nothing kosher here.

    • Troll: Grahamsno(G64)
  203. @Svigor

    Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is around 105. Also, there are not that many of them. Plus, many are now marrying blacks/Asians.

  204. @CanSpeccy

    Oh. You don’t understand. Fine. And you wish to adapt my careful wording to fit your definitions.

    Your belief that Europeans are ill-adapted to their “present environment” is absurd, particularly in terms of how evolution selects the human animal for conditions of the physical environment.

    Yes, I am aware that some people believe evolution selects for social environment. Perhaps it does, to some limited extent — evenness of temper, diet acceptance, aggressiveness and/or the lack thereof, etc.

    But, selected for political environment? Risible. Add-in the notion of intellectual capabilities selecting for political environment? Hilarious.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  205. Bill says:
    @res

    Does 5, additivity, seem at all likely?

    • Replies: @res
  206. res says:
    @CanSpeccy

    2. The Bible might be entirely revamped, without miracles and angels, etc. Leo Tolstoy did that with the gospels, but frankly his gospel makes dull reading. Such dreary stuff will never fly.

    Interesting. I did not know Tolstoy did that: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Gospel_in_Brief/summary

    Thomas Jefferson did something similar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  207. @CanSpeccy

    You do appreciate that your logic undermines the very basic fabric of religion: credo, quia absurdum?

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  208. Bill says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    There seem to be a lot of people on these threads with something possibly interesting or true to say who spoil the discussion by overstatement.

    Hyperbole makes autists sad. There is nothing more important than the happiness of autists. Therefore, never use hyperbole.

  209. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Steve Gittelson

    And you wish to adapt my careful wording to fit your definitions.

    But I quoted you verbatim.

    Your belief that Europeans are ill-adapted to their “present environment” is absurd, particularly in terms of how evolution selects the human animal for conditions of the physical environment.

    Well if we turn that around and say that Europeans are “well-adapted” to their present environment, we come to the nonsensical conclusion that a dying race is “well-adapted.” That is certainly more absurd than anything that I asserted.

    And when you say:

    Add-in the notion of intellectual capabilities selecting for political environment? Hilarious.

    I agree, it is hilarious, since no one ever suggested that evolution proceeds by way of the organism selecting its environment.

    However, organisms do affect their own environment. I hesitate to mention climate change since that is disputed. But it illustrates the principle. Moreover, humans deliberately change (massively), and therefore, select, their own environment. A ruling elite, composed of globalist bankers, for example, might very well select and environment for the masses that destroys them.

    In an age of automation and artificial intellligence, do you really believe that no one thinks about such things?

  210. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    You do appreciate that your logic undermines the very basic fabric of religion

    Does it undermine the attention to, and social influence of, Greek drama, Star Trek, or the Lord of the Rings that people understand these stories to be fictional?

    Why can the story about Jesus not be accepted for what it is, largely fiction, and historically quite uncertain in all details? Is it not an inspiring tale, despite its dubious historical authenticity? Has it not inspired countless saints, patriotic warriors, and many humbler servants of the public to acts of self-sacrifice, and does it not the Christian form of prayer encourage every adherent of the faith to honest self-assessment?

    Religion embodies profound psychological truths unrelated to historical reality and has many buttresses other than historical fact.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @dfordoom
  211. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Gittelson

    Genes that select/determine “intellectual” configuration are selected for reproductive success, just like all the rest.

    Correct – note that higher “intellectual” faculties do NOT necessarily equate success in breeding lots of offspring. See modern U.S. population statistics.

    Thus, any gene or gene-complex that survives, e.g. is selected for reproductive success, is a product of long-term selection processes, in most cases within a niche.

    Not necessarily. Some gene-complexes could arise in a very short time (2-3 generations) as a result of random combinations that turn out to have a beneficial effect over and above the sum of the constituent parts.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
  212. res says:
    @Bill

    Does 5, additivity, seem at all likely?

    To a surprisingly large degree, yes. See bullet 1 at http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2011/08/footnotes-and-citations.html

    More detail (including links to older posts) at http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2015/10/additivity-in-yeast-quantitative-traits.html

    For a concrete example, see this recent height genetic predictor which accounts for ~40% of variance (half of heritability of 0.8) with an additive model: http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2017/09/accurate-genomic-prediction-of-human.html

    That said, I think it unlikely that the linear extrapolation of the additive model works all the way out to 100SD.

    • Replies: @Bill
  213. @Byzantine_General

    I do not know how to build a trebuchet, but of course I know many people who do.

  214. @CanSpeccy

    I agree that the Bible (both Old and New Testament) contains some really high-class literature, but also some very dull parts. But there is a huge difference. The works of art never pretended to be literally true. The religions do. So, saying that the events in The Lord of the Rings or in Greek drama never happened does not offend anybody. Saying the same thing about the Bible or Koran offends lots of zealots.
    Literature (and other forms of art, like music and painting) embodies profound psychological truths. Just listen to Bach or Albinoni, and you become a better person for a while. But art does not pretend to be historically accurate. Religions do, and that’s the key difference. Like Douglas Adams wrote, every religion will tell you that murder is sin, and will kill you to prove its point. Challenging lies always brings out the worst in their adepts. Just look at the Antifa of the State Department.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  215. @utu

    I want to clarify that I am strongly against any immigration to Europe of people who are different in external phenotype or who did not grow up in Christian culture or families.

    Well, fine. That’s a viewpoint. But again, why get moralistic about it? Personally, I reason that if I were a young man in Syria or Libya, in the current situation, I would also be trying to get to Germany or some other place that would accept me as a refugee.

    That, by the way, is NOT tantamount to saying that Europe should take in all these people. I’m just saying that if you know perfectly well that, in the same situation as them, you would be doing exactly what they are doing, then why express all this venom towards these people?

    If you’re opposed to immigration, why not just lay out the arguments in a calm, rational way?

  216. @Achmed E. Newman

    Home schooling is illegal in Germany, an innovation, I believe, introduced by Herr Shicklgruber and somehow never reversed

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  217. @CanSpeccy

    In an age of automation and artificial intellligence, do you really believe that no one thinks about such things?

    I’m sure they do. However, since we’re playing ‘Blockquote’ here, let’s go back to what I wrote ‘up top’.

    Genes that select/determine “intellectual” configuration are selected for reproductive success, just like all the rest. Thus, any gene or gene-complex that survives, e.g. is selected for reproductive success, is a product of long-term selection processes, in most cases within a niche.

    It means what it means. Two statements of highly-probable fact. No connotation of socio-political process was stated, nor intended. Don’t make of it what it is not.

  218. @grapesoda

    I have no idea what you are babbling about.

    So what? Fortunately, the world, objective reality, is not at all constrained by the limits of your understanding.

  219. @CanSpeccy

    I am terribly sorry, old chap. I keyed a rather voluminous reply, the system swallowed it whole, and it vanished. Perhaps some other time …

  220. @Carroll Price

    You are rating the exceptional, self selecting jews who made it to America. the average Israel IQ is in the low 90′s.

  221. @Anonymous

    Correct – note that higher “intellectual” faculties do NOT necessarily equate success in breeding lots of offspring. See modern U.S. population statistics.

    ?? Relevance?

    Not necessarily. Some gene-complexes could arise in a very short time (2-3 generations) as a result of random combinations that turn out to have a beneficial effect over and above the sum of the constituent parts.

    Via selection in re reproductive success? Unlikely. Can it happen? Sure.

  222. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    The works of art never pretended to be literally true. The religions do.

    I’m suggesting that advocates of Christianity stop pretending that the Bible is literally true. Most Jews are atheists, but that does not stop them from engaging in their traditional religious observances. Why should it be different for Christians? We learn morality from fiction as much as from history, more so in fact, since few study history. The same can be true of Christianity acknowledged to be a story to live by, not a history. And indeed many Christian priests and theologians have long since abandoned belief in the historical truth of Holy Scripture. What matters is the moral truth, which is in no way dependent on the historical reality.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  223. @Jonathan Revusky

    If you’re opposed to immigration, why not just lay out the arguments in a calm, rational way?

    LOL. Those were calm, rational arguments. Nor were they “moral” arguments. They are perfectly sensible arguments based in societal stability and reduction of conflict.

    Keep in mind that moral = right/wrong as prescription. Uhuru made a pragmatic argument, not one based in subjective premises of good and evil.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  224. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @res

    Thank you for the link to the Jefferson Bible, of which I was not aware.

    Tolstoy’s gospel was, in my view, his greatest literary mistake. A great imaginative artist who could give life to a story of the supernatural, took the gospel story and gutted it of every imaginative ornament and contrivance that makes it fascinating.

    What after all could be more fascinating that the story of the creator of the universe appearing on Earth in the form of child, born to a humble girl, in a stable, with sheep and lowing oxen, but heralded by a super nova in the East, and attended on by kings.

    It’s a story to give one goose bumps. And the fact that it’s a re-telling of a story that had been told and retold for thousands of years before the birth of Christ, confirms its power to capture the human heart. So yes, Tolstoy completely blew it, which is why almost no one today knows of his gospel re-write.

    Tolstoy made the additional blunder in asserting that the essence of the gospel was its presentation of Christian morality. That is bunk. There is no specifically Christian morality. Christian morality is simply the golden rule, a rule as old as man, and indeed older. The story of Christ is not to tell people what to do, which in their hearts they already know. It is a story to inspire people to do what they know they should do.

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Carroll Price
  225. Truth says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Yeah…you’re both round-earthers.

  226. @res

    res wrote to me:

    I basically agree with you, but think there is a decent chance you would just be dead thanks to some unexpected interaction (e.g. an undetected case of heterozygote advantage where homozygous recessive is fatal, something like Tay-Sachs disease is thought to be).

    Yeah. There is an overarching general point here: if evolution has not made us super-intelligent (or super-tall or super-muscular or whatever), there is a good chance that this is because the cost of that “benefit” outweighs the actual benefit. That may not always be true, but it is a good bet.

    res also wrote:

    Or we could go off into the philosophical deep end and wonder whether if there was a large enough group of beyond super brilliant math majors they would seem more sane and we would seem less so.

    Well… maybe. Although these super-bright math guys were pretty clearly dysfunctional by fairly objective criteria.

    I am of course aware of the fact that we physicists stand next to the math guys in being towards the Asperger’s end of the spectrum. In fact, Simon Baron-Cohen, an expert on autism, has suggested that all theoretical physicists basically have Asperger’s except some of us do not meet the technical definition since we do manage to function in society. (See Baron-Cohen’s The Essential Difference for a detailed discussion of a number of famous physicists.) Baron-Cohen also has an amusing anecdote in the book about the famous mathematician Richard Borcherds that nicely illustrates the same traits I saw among the brilliant math majors at Caltech.

  227. utu says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    No I see your game Revusky. You are mentally ill provocateur. Nobody wants to talk to you about your crazy crisis actors that you see under your bed so you go around and try to bait people talking about Holocaust or not about immigration. You are a piece of trash.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  228. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Tolstoy did not have an instrumental approach to Christianity as you do have. Perhaps you should lay off from the subject of Christianity of which you know nothing.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  229. @Steve Gittelson

    LOL. Those were calm, rational arguments.

    Well, actually, he didn’t make any specific argument, as far as I can see. He just said he was opposed to the immigration of non-white non-Christian people. And my response to that is that that is perfectly okay.

    You seem to have misunderstood my comment. That may be my fault. I was not referring to anything utu had said specifically. In fact, I meant to say that his anti-immigration viewpoint was perfectly okay.

    I was just referring to the overall tenor of the discussion on these sorts of racialist blogs. There is often a very sanctimonious, moralizing tone in the way these things are discussed.

  230. @CanSpeccy

    I am all for it, I read the Bible as a book, not the Book, and liked many parts. Try convincing Christians, though. Especially more virulent varieties, like Southern Baptists.

  231. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Why can the story about Jesus not be accepted for what it is, largely fiction, and historically quite uncertain in all details? Is it not an inspiring tale, despite its dubious historical authenticity? Has it not inspired countless saints, patriotic warriors, and many humbler servants of the public to acts of self-sacrifice, and does it not the Christian form of prayer encourage every adherent of the faith to honest self-assessment?

    It sounds like you’re advocating a kind of Christianity for atheists. Keep the moral insights and the psychological truths but jettison the supernatural stuff.

    But isn’t that exactly what modern Christian churches have done? Look at the Anglican Church. There’s not a bishop in the Anglican Church who believes in God. Very few Anglican priests believe in God. They’ve created a rational materialist religion that does not require any belief at all in the supernatural.

    And it’s been a dismal failure. The Anglican Church is a walking corpse. Not only has it failed to halt societal collapse – it is hastening the process.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  232. @CanSpeccy

    “If a man today followed the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he followed the teachings of the New, he would be insane.” — Robert G. Ingersoll

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  233. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Tolstoy did not have an instrumental approach to Christianity as you do have. Perhaps you should lay off from the subject of Christianity of which you know nothing.

    As if all the great Christian churches do not have an instrumental approach to Christianity. As if Constantine adopted Christianity out of mere spirituality? As if Prince Vladimir adopted Christianity out of mere spirituality. As if the Vikings converted to Christianity out of mere spirituality.

    Anyway, what sense is there in any religion other than in its instrumentality. Is not Christian faith the means to salvation and eternal life? Obviously the creed is designed to gain converts by making faith a means to an end. It’s that kind instrumentality that has gained Christianity a bad name — as a racket that exploits the simple-minded

    But anyhow, you seem to be suffering a mood swing so I will refrain from further discussion on the topic of the sociology of religion and religious instrumentality, about which you seem to know little.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  234. CalDre says:
    @Byzantine_General

    Oh, did I insult you by not worshiping your God? I’m so sorry – errh, not! :)

    So let me be clear: I don’t care about Spearman or his “g factor”, nor does anyone else with the power of observation. You ever heard of autistic-savants? Or L.L. Thurstone? Or Howard Gardner?

    As a general matter I find this site’s focus on IQ utterly hilarious. It’s like rating the beauty of everyone in the world based on how attractive the nose is. Hahaha. IQ is an interesting way to try to measure something, but it is not the actual thing.

    It’s worse than claiming you are measuring the entire performance of a computer by running one single performance test (this assumes you know something about computer performance modeling).

  235. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    There’s not a bishop in the Anglican Church who believes in God. … The Anglican Church is a walking corpse.

    Are there not some African bishops, in England I mean, who are still believers? Certainly there are in Africa. Tutu, for example, about whom I know little except that he is reputed to have waded into a lynch mob and rescued a man about to be necklaced by Winnie Mandela’s mob.

    I also heard him in a radio interview, when questioned on some Biblical contradiction to which he replied:

    whatever is not in the spirit of Christ, I reject. I reject it absolutely.”

    A superb response that should be among the main planks of modern Christianity. The tremendous emphasis with which he speaks adding to the brilliance of his utterance.

    The churches, however, have no wish to be excluded from the business of saving souls, so they reject Tutu’s claim to direct spiritual awareness, instead claiming that when Jesus said

    behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    he didn’t mean listen to “the still small (inner) voice”, but meant “Look at me, look at me, I am God” or some such thing.

    So, right, no hope for the Anglicans. They even sell off their churches for conversion to mosques. The Archbishop of Canterbury should be burnt at the stake. But what can you expect, he’s a Tony Blair appointee, a former oil money man and, of Jewish extraction probably, despite some cock and bull story about his mother having got knocked up by one of Churchill’s aides a week before her wedding to his legal, con man father.

    No, there’s no hope for the Anglicans.

  236. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Carroll Price

    “If a man today followed the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he followed the teachings of the New, he would be insane.” — Robert G. Ingersoll

    Well as for the first part, remember that the OT is the law of an primitive tribe of Semites, not the law of a modern Western state, so naturally there are going to be some discrepancies in legal code. But that doesn’t really negate the fundamental significance of the Bible. The OT justifies the new world order and the conquest of the ME to be followed by the taking apart of Russia, prior to the subjugation of China (if they don’t surrender first and join the gl0balist scheme under US hegemony.) In other words Christians have simply stolen the Jewish God in all his monstrous brutality and applied his law to their own advantage.

    As for the NT, it’s so full of contradictions, absurdities and borrowings from Egyptian and Greek mythology that Christians obviously have wide latitude in how they interpret it. Again, I think Karen Armstrong puts it best in saying that if the Bible is the world of God, then it must be continually reinterpreted to make sense in the current age. The problem is that not too many bright people go into theology, and those who do are mostly crippled in their thinking by some kind of religious mania or obsession that prevents them from thinking clearly what a religion is about. What it must do is contribute to the creation of a stable and durable civilization by inculcating in believers an ethical code that foster effective cooperation among strangers.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  237. AaronB says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Nothing necessarily wrong with being instrumental – “by their fruits ye shall know them” is very instrumental and religion justifies itself by the joy and bliss it brings.

    But Christianity is far more interesting than merely the golden rule – turn the other cheek, requite good for evil – it’s very much more extreme than simply being nice.

    The west is dying from too much rationality and too much consciousness, not enough emotion and intuition – just as the ancient Greek and Roman world died of too much rationality.

    A rational Christianity won’t work – unless the west can return to the non-rational, it won’t survive.

    Personally, I don’t think it’s possible. We have a terminal case of rationality.

    But I think it’s worth understanding why were dying and what ultimately killed us.

  238. @Bill Jones

    Yep, and as I related in this post, linked-to above, German families trying to escape this tyranny have gotten turned away from the US, when trying to immigrate as refugees. Apparently, they were just too white, Christian, and liberty-loving for our overloaded immigration system.

  239. @CanSpeccy

    Apologies if I missed/failed to express important nuances.

    What was your reference to plagiarism about? Is the readable Jared Diamond a plagiarist? In what particulars?

    I have only read Guns, Germs and Steel once, right through, before I became aware of Steve Sailer and H-bd – though years after I had become proof against extreme anti-hereditarianism and the fraud of the also readable S J Gould. I have no recollection or knowledge of his being a plagiarist though I would have taken him as just adding interesting detail and good storytelling to commonplace ideology if someone had suggested his work was transformative for anthropology and history.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  240. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Again, I think Karen Armstrong puts it best in saying that if the Bible is the world of God, then it must be continually reinterpreted to make sense in the current age.

    But that’s exactly what modern mainstream churches have done. They’ve reinterpreted the Bible to make it consistent with the globalist social justice agenda. And their churches are empty.

    I don’t think a religion can survive if it’s reduced to the status of mere myth, or fiction. You have to retain a core of genuine belief, even if that belief might seem irrational and even if it involves believing in the supernatural.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  241. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AaronB

    turn the other cheek, requite good for evil – it’s very much more extreme than simply being nice.

    Aaron, what Jesus said or meant when he spoke of turning the other cheek, assuming he ever said anything of the kind, is open to question. In the gospel of Matthew, it is clear that Jesus is talking about Jews dealing with other Jews:

    I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

    24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

    And that makes good sense. He is saying avoid quarrels and feuds. If you forgive your brother or your neighbor who has offended you, they will remember and in their turn will show you forbearance if you have trespassed against them.

    But he is not saying do not resist an invading army or a thief or a rapist. Moreover, in Matthew, Jesus clearly differentiates between Jews and Gentiles, so the idea of turning the other cheek, in the case of an invader or an illegal immigrant or whatever, was by no means necessarily or even probably implied. And as Mohandas Ghandi said, to advocate submission to evil is a mark not of virtue but of cowardice.

    A rational Christianity won’t work – unless the west can return to the non-rational, it won’t survive.

    I really don’t see much rationality in the course of Western civilization, rather evidence of degeneration, degradation and self-destruction.

    But I am absolutely not suggesting that religions should be stripped of the magical or mysterious. As noted somewhere above, Tolstoy’s error in redrafting the gospel story was to strip it of the miraculous. Everyone loves miracles, whether in Star Trek, Harry Potter or in the world of the Hobbit.

    But we can enjoy the Nativity, we can be moved by the Tragedy of the crucifixion, without pretending it is necessarily historical truth. For our purposes, it is simply a narrative. A narrative based on the highly unreliable collective memory of various non-Hebrew speaking communities, much of it seeming almost nonsensical, some of it raising serious questions as the Jesus’s sanity.

    What we need is a write of Tolstoy’s genius who will redraft the story, and perfect it as a great and morally inspiring work of art for a modern audience. And it will confirm the three essential features of Christianity: the Mosaic law, a personal god, and attention to the Kingdom of Heaven (i.e. conscience) within.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @AaronB
  242. @utu

    How does this have anything to do with anything I just said? All I was saying was, by all means discuss these questions and by all means oppose immigration, fine. By all means say that blacks are congenitally stupid, if that’s what you believe. But I personally don’t relate to all this moralistic undertone, that’s all.

    As for crisis actors and the rest of that, in my view (note that I only speak for myself) a sensible person should not want to waste his time talking about fake things as if they were real. As in:

    Fake school shootings, fake church shootings, fake fag bar shootings, fake asshole cartoonist shootings… Fake Osama bin Laden shooting…

    Fake victims, fake friends and family of victims, fake witnesses to things that never happened…

    Fake political dissidents (who are really actors), fake jihadists, fake investigative journalists…

    Fake economic statistics, fake economic recovery…

    Fake poison gas attacks… Fake rape epidemics,… (Sweden is the rape capital of the world! LOL!)

    All of this is the Roger Rabbit mental world. Plato’s cave. So much of what we are presented is clearly utterly fake! It’s just a question of opening one’s eyes. And thinking.

    It’s understandable that you and others get get infuriated at me for pointing out that all sorts of things are simply not real. It’s Plato’s cave. You know nothing else and to realize the truth is just too painful. Cognitive dissonance.

    I get it. The red pill is hard to swallow.

    Still, I don’t think that everybody wants to have conversations based around things that are laughably fake. More and more people are catching on. Things are reaching a certain tipping point maybe. That’s why YouTube needed to remove all the videos that showed how fake these synthetic events with crisis actors are.

    Time to wake up…

    • Replies: @Truth
  243. @AaronB

    We have a terminal case of rationality.

    Interesting framing, but I doubt it is true. The secular belief system that replaced traditional religions is superficially more scientific and rational, I suppose. But, in reality, it is just as irrational and dogmatic as any religion.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  244. Anonymous[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @CalDre

    I ran through that test just to see what it was. It’s 40 questions of pattern recognition, that’s it. And after you’ve answered it, it won’t give you the results unless you enter your Facebook Account and give them access.

    I did it last year and I did get the result displayed on the screen – both the IQ number and the percentile. Are you sure you didn’t miss a tiny button somewhere?

    Progressive Matrices are probably one of the best types of IQ tests since they eliminate potential educational advantages. That said, I can’t vouch for this particular one (maybe it’s not well calibrated) but my own result was close to the previous, “proper” measurements.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  245. Truth says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    All of this is the Roger Rabbit mental world. Plato’s cave. So much of what we are presented is clearly utterly fake! It’s just a question of opening one’s eyes. And thinking.

    It’s shocking, isn’t it, Old Boy? These things are so obvious if one just opens his eyes, and yet a coterie of people whose raison d’etre is to laud their “great intellect,” seem dumber than the hoi-polloi on the street.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky
  246. AaronB says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I would ask you to please read the Sermon On The Mount, where I took my quotes from.

    The significant thing is that early Christians did not interpret the bible in your fashion, as merely a reasonable ethic.

    A culture thrives when there is a vital balance between the rational and non-rational forces – today we have the hypertrophy of reason and consciousness, much as the late Roman world did.

    If reason is supreme, man can become woman, nations don’t exist, and genetic engineering and artificial intelligence will transform us into gods.

    That’s one vision of life, and it’s based on the notion that there are no forces man must submit to in order to be happy – nature, the divine, whatever you want to call it. Human reason is supreme.

    The only thing is…if it’s wrong, then you’d except widespread depression and anomie, with periodic mass psychosis and outbreaks of insanity.

    I leave it to you to judge where we are….

    If there is a “pattern” we must follow to flourish, then the more we break with it, the more breakdown and distress we’ll see.

    Religions point to a non-human pattern, not invented by human reason or consciousness, but larger than it, that we must follow in order to flourish and be happy.

    That’s why a religion invented by human reason will not help – in fact, that is what we have now already, and it’s originator was Auguste Comte.

    We are living now through the “barbarism of reason” – barbarism is a sub-optimal state where human nature is stunted and does not flourish to its full capacity. When human reason denies there is a pattern we must conform to and elevates itself as the final arbiter we fail to flourish. Traditionally, barbarism was a failure to follow the larger non-human pattern by surrendering to excessive emotion and subjectivity.

    But both too much reason and too little are excessive subjectivity – and true flourishing requires following a non-subjective pattern that is not created by humans.

    I was reading Jared Taylor’s excellent book on Japan (which is easily downloadable from that invaluable Russian site Anatoly Karlin keeps on providing links to) and it’s clear that beneath the technological shine the Japanese are a deeply religious people with an unwavering connection to the non-human pattern as they understand it. Emotion and intuition are often considered more important than logic, which is somewhat denigrated, and the West is seem as excessively logical.

    It’s a remarkable fact that certain Asian countries seem to have very successfully modernized and become technological powerhouses without falling prey to the social ills the West has, or at least not to the same extent – surely it’s worth investigating why. It’s easy to dismiss the basket case countries who have managed to avoid our social diseases because that’s seen as part of their failure to modernize.

    If you look closely at certain Asian countries, like Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, you will find that the apparent dominance of logic and reason that seems inseparable from mastering technology doesn’t actually exist over there – instead, there is a much stronger connection to the non-rational sidea of life.

    It’s significant that the modern West is the first civilization that no longer produces or reads poetry….

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  247. AaronB says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Right, it’s an attempt at a man made religion, and by elevating human reason to the role of supreme arbiter it actually becomes irrational from the point of view of those who discern a supra-human pattern – it’s irrational to fail to conform to that pattern if you believe in it. But if you don’t…..

  248. Harbinger says:
    @Randal

    Racism is NOT the hatred of another race. That’s prejudice. Racism is the belief that ones race is superior to another. The very success of the white civilization is overwhelming proof that white people should embrace their racism over blacks. The fact that many parts of Africa still haven’t invented the wheel speaks volumes.
    On the contrary, blacks cannot be racist to whites, well, possibly in the sporting world, but certainly not civilizationally.

    The reason WHY the Western civilization is sinking into the sewer is because a (((tribe))) came in and taught us not to be racists. Instead of love for our civilization, culture, nations and race, we now hate them, while the Jew continues to promote ethnocentric supremacy, through divide and conquer, everything that benefits the Jew destroys the goy and vice versa.

    In other words of you’re not a racist, white supremacist you’re a Shabbos goy, doing your very best to destroy that which your ancestors died to give you – freedom.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @CanSpeccy
  249. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    But that’s exactly what modern mainstream churches have done. They’ve reinterpreted the Bible to make it consistent with the globalist social justice agenda. And their churches are empty.

    We can only believe what we can believe and, today, almost anyone with a half decent education is a materialist. Thus, if one wants to reconstruct Christianity, one must accept that it must be a religion for materialists. However, a religion for materialists is not such a contradiction as it may seem.

    As materialists, we believe, at least when we are being rational, only what can be demonstrated, and therein lies an avenue to the world of the spirit, for in what does demonstration consist other than the evidence of the senses, which is to say conscious experience.

    And what is consciousness? That I am conscious is something you cannot know, because my consciousness is not part of the material world. It cannot be demonstrated, yet consciousness is the sole basis of our life experience. So we are creatures of the spirit who have modeled a material world to account for our experience.

    Evidently, therefore, the world is vastly more strange than most are aware, and provides much room for re imagining our place in the universe. However, without a latter-day Becket who will shake the foundations of the state, a Christian renaissance won’t emerge from the palace of a bishop of the Anglican church, certainly not a palace occupied by an old Etonian with excellent connections to London’s banking establishment and the head of MI6.

    No, Welby’s job is to facilitate the transition from a Christian society in which individual conduct is guided by conscience and the still small voice, to a world in which individual conduct is monitored 24/7 for conformity with the politically correct dictates of the state.

    So, no, a Christian revival in Britain initiated by the Established church seems out of the question. One can, however, imagine many other possible paths to a Christian revival.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  250. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AaronB

    I would ask you to please read the Sermon On The Mount

    Aaron, I have read the Sermon on the Mount – many times and in all its Biblical versions. Indeed, I quoted directly from it. As for your anti-rationalism, I have stated here at least once the need to restore to Christianity the emotional elements that the atheists insist on stripping from it: the nativity, the tragedy of the crucifixion, the miracle of the ressurection. The failure to do that is the reason I state that Tolstoy’s Gospel is a complete dud.

    But what Jesus said is always open to question, since her wrote nothing, his disciples wrote nothing, and the people who wrote the gospels never knew him and did not even speak his language. Therefore, I do not accept any version of the Sermon on the Mount as gospel truth. Moreover, I see much harm in the promotion of the “turn the other cheek meme” by the globalists such as Lionel Curtis, for example, who use it to promote their campaign for European genocide by mass immigration of settler migrants. Any religions that promotes the destruction of its own people is a religion not of God but of the devil.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Anonymous
  251. AaronB says:
    @CanSpeccy

    One more thing, Can Speccy, lest I be misunderstood….

    When I say conforming to a pattern, I mean a non-human pattern. Its the opposite of being logical, scientific, rational – and often involves bypassing the conscious mind and being emotional and spontaneous.

    Reason and logic are human categories, and conforming to them would merely elevate the human to supremacy.

    Religion is freedom – logic is a prison that becomes oppressive and will eventually kill you by isolating you from a larger reality. All religions have to be a little bit “crazy” – to remind us that the human is relative. If religion is supposed to free you from the narrow confines of human ways of thinking and judging and connect you to a larger non-human world, then religion as merely a humanly reasonable ethic misses the point.

    It’s remarkable that all major religions free us from reasonable ways of human thinking and judging – the Sermon On The Mount goes against prudential common sense, and the many parables like the laborers who get payed the exact same amount no matter when they showed up or how much they work make the same point – human judgements are relative categories, the human mind isn’t absolute and needs to see itself as part of a larger whole.

    Buddhism is often presented as a rational religion, but the whole point of it is to transcend human categories of rationality and see everything as One.

    Chuang Tzu (Taoism) has a chapter called “seeing all things as equal”, and his book is full of reversals of common judgements about death and life, and questions whether we can know anything at all.

    The point is alwaya bursting free from a merely human order and into a non human one.

    Regarding the Sermon – such an extreme abandonment of prudence isn’t really possible, but it’s useful both as a reminder of the relativity of human notions of prudence and as an extreme formulation of an ideal we should try to confirm to as much as human survival allows.

    We should defend ourselves with violence if necessary, but never valorize it or rejoice in it – but reluctantly and regretfully.

  252. AaronB says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Sorry, my other comment was before I saw this reply.

    I agree the Sermon cannot be taken literally – taking anything religious completely literally is a barbarism of the modern cult of reason. Any religious statement has to be interpreted with reference to multiple levels of reality – something out one-dimensional logic cannot handle.

    For instance, in Buddhism ultimate reality is One. That does not mean the many different things we see around us have no existence at all and we should pay no attention to them going about our lives. We couldn’t survive that way. It does mean taking real world things less seriously and not making too great a fuss about them as your inner eye is focused on another level of reality. It liberates you but doesn’t kill you.

    The same with the Sermon – it refers to the development of a perspective from which our petty human concerns with survival don’t matter all that much, but only a modern barbarian of reason would think that means you should commit suicide. The practical effects of cultivating this vision is to use violence as a last resort and with regret and compassion, but not commit suicide. It was never understood absolutely literally.

    The point is there are multiple levels of reality – the biological level is real and its demands must be satisfied, but it must be placed in a larger context where it’s fundamental relativity and even pettinness is also seen.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  253. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AaronB

    The same with the Sermon – it refers to the development of a perspective from which our petty human concerns with survival don’t matter all that much, but only a modern barbarian of reason would think that means you should commit suicide.

    Yes.

    A barbarian of reason is a good description, I think, for Tolstoy. He was a great artist but a lousy philosopher, hence his loonie take on the S on the M.

    • Replies: @utu
  254. Anonymous[184] • Disclaimer says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The “turn the other cheek” meme reminds me of: “meek shall inherit the earth”.

    According to Jordan Peterson, who didn’t like the word “meek”, the translation is contested among scholars and the true meaning is more in line with: “those that carry a sword but chose to sheath it”. That’s a very significant difference. One is a warrior who wants peace and the other is a victim in waiting.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @utu
    , @CanSpeccy
    , @dfordoom
  255. CalDre says:
    @Anonymous

    Are you sure you didn’t miss a tiny button somewhere?

    Yes, I still have the page open, there is no button. Aside from the fraud they use to get you to spend the time to take the test without telling you you need a FB account and to grant them access, they lie and say they need your FB account because “the accurate calculation of your IQ score will involves[sic] many parameters, including your age, your gender as well as your country”.

    Now what kind of IQ test adjusts for age, gender and country? WTF? They should also ask your race to adjust for that? I hate this site. Someone should sue the assholes that run it out of business, they are fraudsters and liars, and they are violating the law. IQ RESEARCH SITE IS A FRAUD!

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @Anonymous
  256. AaronB says:
    @Anonymous

    Why be so literal….it’s mythological and metaphorical language, not a precision science manual.

    It loses all its mythological force if you make it into a “reasonable” statement.

    It’s meant to explode our categories of human values and shock us into a perspective from which our over-concern with our survival no longer takes center stage.

    It’s practical effect is to make us not glorify violence and to use it as a last resort, and introduce a more yielding, pliant note into our lives as a whole. The uncompromising language of the original is a shining beacon, a reasonable statement would be boring.

    No, let it stand in its original glory….

    Enough with these over-literal attempts to make mythological language “reasonable”….

  257. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    He was a great artist but a lousy philosopher, hence his loonie take on the S on the M.

    You are really an idiot.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  258. utu says:
    @Anonymous

    The Gospel according to St. Jordan (Peterson)

  259. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Wizard of Oz

    What was your reference to plagiarism about? Is the readable Jared Diamond a plagiarist? In what particulars?

    The obituary of William H, NcNeill put it more politely: His [McNeill's] subsequent books included the 1976 release “Plagues and People,” in which he was among the first to examine the impact of infectious disease in history, from ancient Eurasia to the 20th century. It helped launch a field of scholarship that includes Jared Diamond …

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  260. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    “meek shall inherit the earth”.

    Seems to be literally true in the modern Western World:

    Women who are college graduates are likely to have fewer children — if they have them at all — than their less-educated sisters, the Census Bureau said Monday.

    This, however, is the opposite of the situation in the pre-or early-industrial, pre-welfare-state European world where, according to Adam Smith, those of lower social standing had a reproductive deficit, made up for by the downward mobility of the children of the more fertile upper classes.

  261. @Truth

    a coterie of people whose raison d’etre is to laud their “great intellect,” seem dumber than the hoi-polloi on the street.

    Yeah, well, possibly the capacity to delude oneself continually requires the application of a certain kind of brainpower…

    • Replies: @anon
  262. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Thus, if one wants to reconstruct Christianity, one must accept that it must be a religion for materialists.

    I’m not saying your ideas are entirely invalid but I suspect that there’s only a very small number of people who would find your materialist religion to be satisfying. It sounds like a very austere very intellectual kind of religion.

    If you look back to the classical world the educated Greco-Roman elites had that kind of intellectual rational approach to religion. That’s possibly what doomed paganism. The educated classes were mostly happy enough with their religio-philosophical beliefs but the masses deserted paganism because early Christianity offered them something that was a lot more emotionally satisfying.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  263. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    The “turn the other cheek” meme reminds me of: “meek shall inherit the earth”.

    According to Jordan Peterson, who didn’t like the word “meek”, the translation is contested among scholars and the true meaning is more in line with: “those that carry a sword but chose to sheath it”. That’s a very significant difference. One is a warrior who wants peace and the other is a victim in waiting.

    This is what happens when a religion becomes feminised. And when a society becomes feminised. Everything that doesn’t produce warm fuzzy goodfeelz has to be reinterpreted to maximise the goodfeelz. Everything gets swamped in a tidal wave of oestregen.

    But why did Christianity become so feminised? Why did heterosexual men largely abandon Christianity, leaving it as it is today – a religion for women and homosexuals? The most obvious explanation is that it was the horror of the First World War although I suspect that the process had already begun in the late 19th century.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  264. Anonymous[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @CalDre

    the accurate calculation of your IQ score will involves[sic] many parameters, including your age, your gender as well as your country

    I remember this but I still got the result without submitting any additional info.

  265. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    I’m not saying your ideas are entirely invalid …

    Thanks! But you have taken my statement about a religion for materialists out of context, and made a nonsense of it.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  266. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    You are really an idiot.

    I will turn the other cheek — this time. Next time I knock your block off, you foul-tempered misanthrope.

    That said, you are a total idiot if you think Tolstoy was a great philosopher (read the last chapter of War and Peace, an utterly sophomoric piece of philosophical drivel), and you are an even greater idiot if you deny, after reading the first chapter of the Kreutzer Sonata, that he was a great artist.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
    , @utu
  267. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Jonathan Revusky

    I want to clarify that I am strongly against any immigration to Europe of people who are different in external phenotype or who did not grow up in Christian culture or families.

    If you’re opposed to immigration, why not just lay out the arguments in a calm, rational way?

    It is not reasonable to expect an honest man to offer a calm and rational response to the invasion of his territory by aliens of a difference race and culture.

    Man is a territorial animal. We kill interlopers, or at least we did. One sees that impulse in Russian literature. In Goncharov’s novel, Oblamov, for example, a stranger in the village soon ends up dead in a ditch. The same would be happening all over Western Europe and in the US if political correctness were not deeply inculcated from K to 12, and then strictly enforced by police highly paid by a treasonous elite to aid in the elimination of the native-born population as nation group distinguished by both race and culture.

  268. anon[436] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jonathan Revusky

    Are you going to let him get away with that popular solecism *the* hoi-polloi [sic: the hyphen is also a quasi neologism] ? :-)

  269. @CanSpeccy

    It makes me search my memory for when I first read of the big place of disease in history, apart from the plague and Columbus’s import of syphilis which I seem to have grown up with [i.e. the knowledge!!]. That non Eurasian indigenes were more afflicted by Eurasian diseases than massacre was already commonplace too. But Jared Diamond has been a great story teller and my vivid memory of the undomesticability of zebras and hippopotamuses I attribute to G,G&S. (Mind you, now that we know of the Russian experiments in domesticating foxes I wonder when some eccentric Chinese billionaire is going to sponsor the domestication of zebras for his great grandchildren).

  270. CalDre says:
    @dfordoom

    But why did Christianity become so feminised? Why did heterosexual men largely abandon Christianity, leaving it as it is today

    I think the answer is all over this site. A sustained, organized drive by the Illuminati, starting in the late 1700s, who own the media and control the Supreme Court and school curricula, who are replacing Christianity with their religion of secular humanism.

    It is a relentless and pervasive campaign, and like all such propaganda campaigns, particularly when unopposed, quite successful.

    It is not like there is no religion. It is just a new one. And part of the genius of the campaign is that they actually convince people of the absurdity that secular humanism is not a religion. And the reason it is important to do that, is so they can claim the oppression of Christianity is required as a matter of “separation of Church and State”, whereas, the State-sponsored religion of secular humanism does not pose any problems, indeed, is noble.

    In the end, behind it all, the Synagogue of Satan. But even the remaining Christians have been so brainwashed, they will denounce you for saying it.

    As I said, a very effective propaganda campaign, helped by its pervasiveness and the various psychological blinders (a psychological propaganda technique based on Pavlovian psychology that simply associating an idea with an “evil” is enough to undermine the idea) they have established (such as “anti-Semitism”and “conspiracy theory”) to prevent any effective counter-campaign.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  271. “… someone whose IQ is very likely a four-digit number.” Derbyshire, you’ve outdone yourself. Your obsequious, oleaginous, osculum infaming of a member of the tribe is a new low. (((Amy Wax))) is haram. I know about her article stating that WASP values are superior and that people should follow them to succeed. She is not a WASP. You are a WASP. If you had married a Caucasian, Christian woman, you could and should have been writing about WASP values. But a Chinese wife and offspring prevent this. (((Amy Wax))) does not strike me as brave. We already know about black IQ and that this is the reason why they will never succeed at much. Wax is like Naomi Schaefer Riley, the Jewess married to the black Jason Riley. Schaefer wrote an article about getting rid of black studies. Weird, considering she has black/Jewish offspring. These Jewesses believe that if blacks had standards everything would turn out peachy keen. No. Blacks/Asians/Jews will never be as successful as Caucasian/European Christians. Sure, some Jews in the 2oth century made some waves. This is ending as they have high intermarriage rates with blacks/Asians. You hope that someday the nonsense will stop. It won’t until we separate from blacks/Asians/Jews. Try tackling this subject for an article.

  272. CalDre says:
    @Bill Jones

    This is not an issue of a free lunch, but fraud. They con you into thinking it’s a free test and then after you have spent significant time they require substantial payment. And it’s illegal, which is probably why they don’t provide a contact address.

    Their terms of service provide:

    This Site offers a recreational service …. after having been weighted by age, gender and country of the User.

    So these fraudsters admit, in the fine print, that not only is the test a joke (“recreation”), but it makes no effort whatsoever to be accurate by weighing results by age, gender and country. It’s obviously a fishing expedition to gain access to FB accounts. Once they have that, they probably try to scam you in other ways.

    But there actually are a lot of free lunches. You should try the internet sometime. But go on, defend fraudsters and conmen, lovely.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  273. @CanSpeccy

    I will turn the other cheek — this time. Next time I knock your block off, you foul-tempered misanthrope.

    Tickets! Get your tickets here! Command performance!

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  274. @Harbinger

    Aren’t you counting your chickens before they hatched? Civilization’s lifespan is centuries and millennia. The civilization cannot be successful if it does not produce enough progeny to maintain itself. What’s your prediction regarding the racial composition of Europe or North America in 50 years? In 100 years? In 200 years? Talking about civilizations you have to adopt a long view. When Chinese PM Zhou Enlai (died in 1976) was asked what does he think about French revolution, he answered: “it’s too early to judge”. That’s the view you need discussing civilizations.

  275. Anon[425] • Disclaimer says:

    She should go into Judge Judy mode.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  276. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    But you have taken my statement about a religion for materialists out of context,

    I must confess that I find your views on religion to be a little opaque at times.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  277. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Jonathan Revusky

    If you’re opposed to immigration, why not just lay out the arguments in a calm, rational way?

    Political disputes are rarely resolved by calm, rational argument. If you rely on calm, rational argument you can expect to be defeated by an opponent who relies on raw emotion. Most people form their political views on the basis of pure emotion.

  278. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CalDre

    But why did Christianity become so feminised? Why did heterosexual men largely abandon Christianity, leaving it as it is today

    I think the answer is all over this site. A sustained, organized drive by the Illuminati

    I was rather hoping for a non-conspiracy theory explanation.

    It is not like there is no religion. It is just a new one. And part of the genius of the campaign is that they actually convince people of the absurdity that secular humanism is not a religion.

    Sure, but that doesn’t answer the question I posed. Why have those who have remained Christian become so feminised? Why have heterosexual men abandoned Christianity to a far greater degree than women and homosexuals? Why has western society become so feminised?

    • Replies: @CalDre
  279. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    I must confess that I find your views on religion to be a little opaque at times.

    Well theology is famously less cut and dried than rocket science. But my point that, to a materialist, the only religion that will make sense must have a materialist foundation, is irrefutable. And since we, in the West, live in a materialistic culture, materialism is, today, the only foundation for a widely acceptable Western religion.

    Also irrefutable, if less easily grasped, is the fact that the material world is not what it at first appears, and indeed it is not the basis of consciousness but rather consciousness is the basis of the material world, a construct based upon sensory perception. Thus, a religion based upon materialist foundations is not nearly so drab, so unexciting, or so common-sensical as might at first be assumed.

    • Replies: @utu
  280. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Steve Gittelson

    Tickets! Get your tickets here! Command performance!

    Move along there.

    Nothing to see here, you scobberlotcher.

  281. @Anon

    Judith Scheindlin can be very entertaining at times, but she is also capricious and vindictive, which is why I generally dislike her. Here she was capricious and vindictive.

    I had no problem with the conduct of the plaintiff, Waddell Fields. Actually, I found him intelligent and charming.

  282. CalDre says:
    @dfordoom

    I was rather hoping for a non-conspiracy theory explanation.

    If by “conspiracy theory” you mean any claim that there is an organized group, sworn to secrecy, to advance an agenda … then I guess we cannot speak about how the world works. Because for example CIA, NSA, FSB, MI6 and countless other organizations don’t exist.

    But more to the point, if you close your mind so decisively, don’t be surprised that you don’t “get it”. That is why the wife who “can’t imagine my husband would cheat” … well, can’t make sense of the unexplained hotel charges, lingerie, perfume and lipstick.

  283. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Harbinger

    You don’t need to be a racial supremacist to be for your own kith and kin. I don’t give a damn if Jews, or Hindus, or Chinese or Kung tribesmen have higher IQ’s, run faster, or are better looking than my own national group, I just aim to see my group survive.

    When hucksters for political correctness preach that opposing the genocide of the your own people — a genocide instigated by government through the suppression of reproduction and facilitated mass replacement immigration — is racist, they are spewing complete bollocks in a psychological war of extermination.

    Demoralizing the victim is a key first step in the genocide of a nation by induced cultural disintegration, racial self-denigration, abandonment of religion, and general debauchery and corruption, so that the group withers and dies like a plant that has suffered a blight.

    There are shills for, and dupes of, those intent on European genocide who will say it is racist to claim that Germany, say, should be populated mainly by Germans, rather than by, say, Syrians or Chinese. But that again is complete bollocks because without a German homeland mainly populated by Germans, the German nation is destroyed.

    Like the Germans, the peoples of the US, Britain, and every other Western nation where billions in the Third World will move if given the opportunity, are under threat of destruction, along with their culture (the most magnificent cultures the world has yet seen), however degraded those cultures have become in the present age.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  284. FPD72 says:
    @Steve Gittelson

    Home education was effectively banned in Texas until around 1992, when the Texas State Supreme Court in Leeper vs. AISD ruled in favor of home schoolers, recognizing them as a form of private education, which is very lightly regulated in Texas. Before that decision, I knew people living in Midland, TX who were forced to move to Las Vegas, NV in order to improve their children’s educational environment.

    There are still a number of states and local school boards that make life very difficult for home educators. Since my youngest is now thirty-four, Mrs. FPD72 and I have been out of the education game for quite a while. All of our kids were put into public schools by the ninth grade, where they performed at a high level at “good” schools. Two did well in college. The one who didn’t finish is a millionaire several times over and is something of an autodidact.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
  285. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    to a materialist, the only religion that will make sense must have a materialist foundation

    Wow, materialist foundation of religion? You are really getting demented.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @Wizard of Oz
  286. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    You are really getting demented.

    Sorry you are still feeling bilious. Try milk of magnesia — about half a pint. It calms both stomache and mind. But stay close to the bathroom.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  287. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    …you are a total idiot if you think Tolstoy was a great…

    https://philosophynow.org/issues/103/WittgensteinTolstoy_and_the_Folly_of_Logical_Positivism
    In September 1914, Wittgenstein, off duty, visited the town of Tarnow, then in Austrian Galicia, now in southern Poland, where he went into a small shop that seemed to sell nothing but picture postcards. However, as Bertrand Russell later wrote in a letter, Wittgenstein “found that it contained just one book: [of] Tolstoy on the Gospels. He bought it merely because there was no other. He read it and re-read it, and thenceforth had it always with him, under fire and at all times.” No wonder, then, that Wittgenstein became known to his fellow soldiers as ‘the one with the Gospels’. Tolstoy’s book, however, is a single Gospel: hence its name: The Gospel in Brief. It is, as Tolstoy himself says in his Preface, “a fusion of the four Gospels into one.” Tolstoy had distilled the four biblical accounts of Christ’s life and teaching into a compelling story. Wittgenstein was so profoundly moved by it that he doubted whether the actual Gospels could possibly be better than Tolstoy’s synthesis. “If you are not acquainted with it,” he told his friend Ludwig von Ficker, “then you cannot imagine what effect it can have on a person.” It implanted a Christian faith in Wittgenstein. Before going on night-duty at the observation post, he wrote: “Perhaps the nearness of death will bring me the light of life. May God enlighten me. Through God I will become a man. God be with me. Amen.”

    http://wab.uib.no/agora/tools/alws/collection-9-issue-1-article-107.annotate
    Accordingly, Tolstoy arranges and cites the text of the Lord’s Prayer divided into twelve numbered sections, which, he maintains, correspond to the preceding twelve numbered statements (which essentially reiterate Jesus’ teaching). Thus what the preface’s first and second “catalogues”, each consisting of twelve numbered statements, present us with are two parallel and, in Tolstoy’s view, corresponding lists of the contents of the book’s twelve chapters: 12 main propositions concerning Jesus’ teaching = 12 sections of the Lord’s Prayer. – Allow me to point out that, by adducing the words of the Lord’s Prayer in the headings of the Gospel in Brief, Tolstoy is asserting a relationship between the statements of the prayer (between their potential to bring to light questions to which they themselves provide the correct answers) and a reading of his Gospel in Brief. This reading constitutes both a clarification of the questions about the meaning of life and an imparting of answers to those same questions. And here we can ask, is it not the case that the Tractatus seeks to apply and achieve a similar “rhetorical” objective or “invocative” aspect? I shall leave this question as it stands!

    With these comments in mind we can now ask whether Tolstoy’s introductory remarks to the Gospel in Brief and his thoughts concerning the composition, progression and inherent structure of the “Gospel’s harmony” are of any relevance in seeking to understand the form and numbering system of the Tractatus. Maybe. Maybe not. But despite this uncertainty, I shall briefly indicate a few of the “perspectives” that might result from this approach to the Tractatus. Here the overall working hypothesis (in a more rigorous formulation) will be this: the composition of the Tractatus, its form and numbering system, constitute a modified version (a more formalized implementation) of Tolstoy’s compositional strategy in the Gospel in Brief. Or put another way: when, after his initial reading of the Gospel in Brief, Wittgenstein describes it as “a magnificent work”, is he also thinking about the abovementioned “structural” considerations described in the work’s preface?

    Tractatus:

    “6.522 There are indeed things that cannot be put into words. They make themselves manifest. They are what is mystical.”

    “6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no value – and if there were, it would be of no value. If there is value which is of value, it must lie outside of all happening and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this would again be accidental. It must lie outside the world.”

    “6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions. Propositions cannot express anything higher.”

    “6.421 It is clear that ethics cannot be expressed. Ethics is transcendental.”

    Even more interesting is looking in to Philosophical Investigations.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20008120?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
    Rather than outlining piecemeal similarities, the study presents a systematic model which captures the nature of the religious orientation to the world in Wittgenstein. This model comprises three interlinked elements: the Absoluteness-Element, the Perspective-Element and the Independence-Element. Turning to Tolstoy, it unearths a comparable structure in his thought. No attempt is made to trace whatever direct influence Tolstoy may have had on Wittgenstein. But, in demonstrating the depth and nature of the similarity in the way both thinkers share a common model of the authentic religious orientation, it is hoped to inspire a deeper appreciation of the world-view to which Wittgenstein was attached through his cultural milieu and general background.

    CanSpeccy, you are getting old. Your mind is deserting you. You are hindered by your simpleminded materialism you subscribed to whole your life. It might be too late for you. You blew it. Weeping and gnashing teeth might be all what is in store for you. Leave Tolstoy alone. Remember about the pearls and swine. You have become the swine.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  288. @utu

    You are not qualified to be a pedant on UR. CanSpeccy was not asserting in those words that there can be a materialist foundation of religion.

    Actually you could get pretty close by arguing that belief in religion has a substantial genetic basis via natural selection supported by the binding of tribes in solidarity by shared enthusiasm for religious ideas. But that is not to the point for CanSpeccy I think.

    • Replies: @utu
  289. mcohen says:

    Chemical ali.who was he really.was he related to the famous chemical brothers

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Hassan_al-Majid

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chemical_Brothers

    The connect in my mind is that great song.”it began in afrika”.the arrow of time shot from the past hit a park bench in salisbury.not salisbury in rhodesia but england.race realism can can be deceiving and lead to underestimation.my dad always said white man thinks in squares and black man thinks in circles.i thought it was a joke but now realize one must consider the origins of all events carefully.

  290. AaronB says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Unlike utu, I think your ideas are interesting – but you are making a mistake.

    A religion “comes to you” when you stop trying to consciously control things – this is because a religion is about connecting to the unconscious, nature, or the divine.

    Your project is one of top down, conscious human control – yet that is precisely the attitude that is killing us and that deprived us of religion in the first place. The West’s project of top down conscious control has cut us off from the unconscious (nature, the divine) – that is why we are experiencing mass psychosis and mass hysteria and depression.

    You can’t consciously invent or choose a religion – you must relax your mind, cease trying to consciously control – and see what happens. That is the only way large numbers of people in the West will return to religion and the unconscious sources of motivation. Nor can you consciously “revive” Christianity – with a relaxed mind and reduced sense of self restoring contact with the unconscious, Christianity may choose you.

    Materialism is not a natural attitude for humans – it’s a consciously chosen way of seeing the world. As long as this top down conscious effort is maintained, there is no contact with the unconscious, (nature, or the divine), and therefore, no religion is possible.

  291. utu says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    …I think.

    I haven’t noticed. But perhaps you do, Major H. O. Jones.

  292. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @AaronB

    First, one should be clear about the meaning of the word “religion.” It has many meanings and certainly encompasses systems of belief that are purely materialistic and many that are entirely invented. Thus, to say:

    You can’t consciously invent or choose a religion

    is simply incorrect.

    Communism is a religion and was entirely invented, and Political Correctness, the state religion of the West is, as Anthony Daniels described it, Communism writ small.

    How one understands religion depends on how one views the world. A rational view of the world is from a Darwinian perspective. In that view, what is the significance of religion? Clearly, its impact on the survival of those committed to it. Thus viewed, religion is a vital institution of civilization upon which the fate of every human group depends.

    As for the relation between religion and materialism, my initial point was this: if a person is a confirmed materialist, you will not induce him to accept any religion that is incompatible with materialism. That is a plain fact.

    But I made the further point that materialism does not lead to the view of the world that the naive materialist (or the naive non-materialist) assumes. Specifically, I made the following argument.

    Materialism in its most rigorous form can be equated with science, and in the scientific view, all we can say with confidence about the world is what can be demonstrated by observation.

    By that I mean if you cannot see, hear, feel or smell it and convince others that they also can see, hear, feel or smell it, or else infer it by accepted logical processes from what you and others can see, hear, feel or smell, then it is not real.

    I then pointed out that seeing, hearing, feeling and smelling are all forms of sensation, or components of mind. Furthermore, I pointed out that mind cannot be seen, heard, felt or smelled. Therefore, it is outside of science and therefore outside of the material world.

    From that it follows that the non-material is primary and the material world is merely a construct of the non-material.

    Where the argument goes from there, is not a question that I will tire anyone further by pursuing here. But it seems clear that materialism is not nearly so categorically opposed to what some, with an annoying vagueness, call “spirituality” as at first appears.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  293. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    You think that salvation is to be found in the Tractatus. If so, how many of the world’s teaming masses are thus to be saved? Three, four, a hundred? LOL

    Incidentally, I have read Tolstoy, including his introduction to the Gospels. It is more readable than Wittgenstein, but only just. And it strips the gospel story of every trace of the miraculous as only a die-hard materialist would have required. To say “it is a compelling story” is absurd. It is a complete dud. The one work by Tolstoy that practically no one will read.

    When I was at school, among the few things I learned was not to put an exclamation point at the end of a sentence, the principle being that one should let the reader decide whether a point is remarkable, funny, etc. Likewise, may I suggest that you refrain from adding your equivalent to an exclamation point to comments of others by stating your assessment of the author’s idiocy, senility, incapacity to think, etc. Let each reader decide for himself.

    • Replies: @utu
  294. AaronB says:
    @CanSpeccy

    Yes, materialism truly understood undercuts naive materialism – and as Kant showed, reason truly understood undercuts reason.

    The project of using reason to undercut reason has not worked in the past….

    If we were truly rational, the whole edifice of materialistic scientistism wouldn’t exist….

    Its the same reason, as utu once explained to me, you can’t use willpower to overcome ego.

    Trying to undermine reason through reason, naive materialism through rational materialism, is the last stage before you give up reason and realize top down conscious control us the problem….

    Good luck…

  295. @FPD72

    All of our kids were put into public schools by the ninth grade, where they performed at a high level at “good” schools.

    I was of the POV that elementary schools still provided an acceptable basic education, in the sense of “reading, ‘riting, ‘rithmetic”. I took mine out of PS at the end of 5th grade, since we lived in a state where “middle school” was grades 6 – 9 — a disastrous formation for any incoming 6th grader.

    GEDs were achieved by all three on the first examination for which each was eligible (minimum age being 16 in the state; they could have had GEDs by age 14, were it permitted). One is now an engineer, one a biochemist, and the one with the business degree runs three retail operations.

  296. @AaronB

    A religion “comes to you” when you stop trying to consciously control things – this is because a religion is about connecting to the unconscious, nature, or the divine.

    Not really. “Religion” comes to those who need it, psychologically and socially. Like any social tool, it has use. Any notion that it “comes to you” because it’s valid epistemology is nonsense.

    Materialism is not a natural attitude for humans – it’s a consciously chosen way of seeing the world.

    Wrong. Materialism is the only natural attitude for humans.

    You can’t consciously invent or choose a religion – you must relax your mind, cease trying to consciously control – and see what happens.

    LOL. Basically, you are asserting that religion is an invention of the unconscious mind, which, granted, it may very well be.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  297. Harbinger says:
    @CanSpeccy

    All my life I was steered away from ‘racial supremacy’. To me it was always a bad thing. But then, when I started to see the damage happening to my nation, my culture and my people I started to see that the very reason all of this was happening was because people had stopped being believers in their own culture, their own people and our successes. It dawned on me simply that when it comes to Science, Technology, Engineering, Math, Literature, Music, Arts, Philosophy, Medicine, Law and Order, Architecture, Sculpture, Humanitarianism, Charity…..the list goes on and on, that whites CLEARLY led the way above all other nations.
    Now what does to lead mean?
    If Usain Bolt stated – “there is no white man faster than me at running” he would be correct. This would also be a racist statement too, would it not? He as a black man is claiming racial superiority over white people.

    People in the west have grown up HATING their ancestry and their culture, believing that they were the only people to have slaves, that they were the only people to conquer other lands and that they were the only people to dominate others. The Germans have now taken it to suicidal levels, now trying to extinguish just who they are. And the Jew has been right at the very heart of all of this.
    Read the following excellent article:

    https://newsfromthewest.com/2018/03/21/tribalist/

    I am a proud racist and always will be. Were it not for the acts of my ancestors, I wouldn’t be here. Had they not taken the initiatives that they did to survive and succeed, there would have been no advancements in all the fields mentioned afore. The Jews succeed because they are united as a people and they have destroyed my people through destroying this.

    Simply put, if you are not a white supremacist, then you are a hater of your own people. It is very black and white. You either celebrate your culture and traditions or you don’t and the older I get the less I see of this.

  298. AaronB says:
    @Steve Gittelson

    I’m describing an alternative to what has become the western way of seeing things over the past few hundred years.

    I understand you view reason as supreme and conscious control of everything as your goal – and I would submit this has led to mass psychosis in the West.

    I’m describing an alternative for people who are fed up with the modern western way.

    I don’t inagibe large numbers will agree with me – the West is in its death spiral, and very few will abandon this sinking ship.

    • Replies: @Steve Gittelson
  299. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    The point was not how many found salvation in Tractatus but how many found it in Tolstoy. I gave you just one example that of Wittgenstein. Your point was that Tolstoy was bad philosopher and bad whatever and I gave you the example of Wittgenstein whose work was inspired by Tolstoy. And now come the exclamation points: !, !!, !!!

    ! – bulshitter who can’t control his own narrative due to progressive dementia
    !! – the proverbial swine
    !!! – idiot

  300. @CalDre

    Who am I defending?

    • Replies: @CalDre
  301. @AaronB

    I’m describing an alternative to what has become the western way of seeing things over the past few hundred years.

    When you do that, substantiate your position, and people will take it more seriously — to the extent possible, of course.

    I understand you view reason as supreme and conscious control of everything as your goal – and I would submit this has led to mass psychosis in the West.

    No, I don’t, and your assumption is nonsensical. Now, is the “West” in a death spiral? Sort of … It’s more a case of population pressure meets harsh reality. In that respect, most western civilization is floundering — including Europe, Central and South America. China holds on grimly, but I would hedge that bet as well.

    • Replies: @AaronB
  302. @utu

    The point was not how many found salvation in Tractatus but how many found it in Tolstoy.

    Lesseee … how should the T-shirts be stenciled?

    1. Tractatus is my Savior.

    2. Save me, Ludwig! (dual purpose!)

    3. Tolstoy ain’t the whole story.

    • LOL: CanSpeccy
  303. Anonymous[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @Harbinger

    Good post. Personally, I don’t openly describe myself as racist in most real life situations (outside the Net) but I’m making sure to only promote the interests of my people and work against our enemies. Every white person should do the same.

  304. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Harbinger

    Simply put, if you are not a white supremacist, then you are a hater of your own people. It is very black and white. You either celebrate your culture and traditions or you don’t and the older I get the less I see of this.

    Probably we don’t disagree much except in language.

    The thing is, as I see it, those for the destruction of the West always try to induce the victims of their scheme to take positions that can be condemned as racist, then much mindless hate will automatically be directed at them by the brainwashed products of Western education.

    I prefer therefore to state the case for European survival more circumspectly than you. Moreover, I don’t believe that that case needs to proceed on the basis of any actual European supremacy in anything. Indeed, as a biologist, at least by training, I naturally have a great interest in biodiversity of all kinds, including human biodiversity, and therefore while my priority if for my own people, I think it would be a tragedy to lose any of humanity’s remarkable diversity.

    But yes, the Europeans peoples have, like every other community, the right to fight for their everlasting future, and to take every conceivable measure to insure that that right trumps all else. A vast challenge, since the European elites are, for the most part, globalist traitors intent on the destruction of all human diversity.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  305. lavoisier says: • Website
    @Anonymouse

    There is some merit to what you are saying. If I were a person of color I would not want to take one of her classes–particularly if there was any subjective aspect to the grading system.

    But allowing any form of affirmative action will lead inevitably towards others questioning your academic credentials if you are a person of color.

    Affirmative action harms talented black and hispanic people.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  306. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Utu,

    Why are you such an unpleasant person?

    Is it some form of schizophrenia?

    Were you dropped on your head a child?

    But why ask? Nasty people are probably the last to understand themselves. Oddly many of them are religious fanatics with unintelligible systems of belief.

    • Replies: @utu
  307. AaronB says:
    @Steve Gittelson

    There’s nothing to substantiate :) That’s just your over logical way of thinking. You are free to reject my way of seeing things.

    If you’re happy with current western thought patterns, more power to you.

    I’m merely offering a perspective should there be any who aren’t as satisfied as you.

  308. CalDre says:
    @Bill Jones

    Hmmm, wouldn’t it be simpler to go through the thread history then ask a question obviously answered thereby?

    I complained about the fraud / deception / conjob at IQ Info.

    Your response was “there’s no free lunch”.

    To which I responded, indeed, there are lots of free lunches, millions on YouTube alone, and why are you defending the fraudsters?

    If you don’t see how your “no free lunch” comments defend the defrauders, I can’t help you, I suggest an introductory course in logic.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  309. CalDre says:
    @lavoisier

    In general law school exams are graded on a blind basis. I.e., the test booklet has only a random number, which is associated with a student identity at the administrative office only after grading has been completed by the prof and assistants.

    U Penn Law school claims to use this procedure.

  310. @CalDre

    The “free lunches” turn out to have a cost.

  311. utu says:
    @CanSpeccy

    I am not unpleasant in general. I am just exasperated with you. Because you are dancing with your arguments w/o bearing any consequences. I have encountered it several times in last six months or so.

    People who take their own arguments seriously do not violate some basic rules of discourse, but you do it all the time. In particular you keep breaking the fundamental rule of continuity. I blame it on your progressive dementia. You just do not see contradictions. You do not keep track of your own arguments. All you know that you can’t be wrong and then everything goes. If you think that A supports your point you use it but when one points out to you that it is not-A in this particular case you switch around and ignore it as if nothing has happened.

    But perhaps you suffer form a major character flaw. If it is not a progressive dementia you must be an unscrupulous bastard who has a streak of psychopathy in him.

    Dementia evoke a pity and one would hope relatives would keep a person like this isolated but psychopathy deserves total condemnation and exemplary punishment.

    Please ask your wife, daughter or nurse or whoever takes care of you to help you remove yourself from this environment so you do not compromise yourself anymore. Do it right away in this very moment. Because later you will forget. Ask them to read this comment. Ask them to read this comment. Ask them to read this comment. Ask them to read this comment. Ask them to read this comment.

    But if I see you here tomorrow I will have to go with the hypothesis that you are unreformable psychopathic bastard. And you will be seeing the unpleasant side of me.

  312. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Harbinger

    You either celebrate your culture and traditions or you don’t

    The problem is that western culture clearly doesn’t work. It has self-destructed. Obviously there are some serious flaws in our culture which we need to identify and correct. Some of our traditions which have grown up in the past few hundred years are traditions that we should jettison.

  313. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    I prefer therefore to state the case for European survival more circumspectly than you. Moreover, I don’t believe that that case needs to proceed on the basis of any actual European supremacy in anything. Indeed, as a biologist, at least by training, I naturally have a great interest in biodiversity of all kinds, including human biodiversity, and therefore while my priority if for my own people, I think it would be a tragedy to lose any of humanity’s remarkable diversity.

    What’s really evil about globalism is that it is destroying cultural diversity. Personally I like cultural diversity.

    The paradox of the SJW obsession with diversity is that the end result will be a world with zero diversity – no ethnic diversity, no cultural diversity, no intellectual diversity. Just a single totally Americanised culture over the entire planet.

    In fact the driving force behind the diversity agenda is American cultural supremacism.

    • Agree: HogHappenin
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @CalDre
  314. @Obsessive Contrarian

    Perhaps she is one of the few, sane, patriotic ones who doesn’t put the interests of her ‘tribe’ over that of her country nor does she swear allegiance to that shitty little country in the middle east which hangs like an albatross around our old and tired neck. The one for which we’ve been in the sandbox since the 80s.

    Well, I don’t say we don’t have such people. We do. Ron Unz here is a wonderful person who allows such exquisite and real ‘Freedom of Speech’ here on UR. So no that still doesn’t whitewash the fact that most ‘chosenites’ in our ‘leadership’ are always Izzy firsters no matter the cost in blood and sweat to this nation nor the terrible harm it does to millions of innocents abroad. I thought all this was understood. But apparently it isn’t!

    • Replies: @CalDre
  315. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @utu

    Utu, you are clearly projecting your own insanity.

    You accuse me of “dancing with arguments,” “violating basic rules of discourse,” etc., as if your insults and logic-free diatribes were consistent with any rules of discourse other than the principles of vicious propaganda.

    Your are either vicious or just mad. Your religious icon, Tolstoy, was rather similar. A monstrous hypocrite, with loonie ideas.

  316. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    the driving force behind the diversity agenda is American cultural supremacism

    Can one really speak of American culture? All that so-called America culture increasingly consist in are byproducts of the commercial system.

    But, certainly the drive to promote diversity is fraudulent, and in fact the opposite of what it claims to be about.

    The objective is to reduce all people to the same stupified condition of sugar- and hamburger-fed obesity, crap-entertainment-diverted, politically-correct self hatred, and general despair. It aims in other words to reduce people to thought-controlled economic units of production and consumption, to be trafficked internationally as required to maximize profit, minimize cost, and avoid regulation.

  317. @utu

    Oh, for heaven’s sake, don’t be so over the top. You’ve met guys like that in bars, restaurants, pickup volleyball games, office co-workers, you name it. They HAVE to win; it’s a pathology. They cannot be convinced. Cannot.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  318. @dfordoom

    The problem is that western culture clearly doesn’t work. It has self-destructed. Obviously there are some serious flaws in our culture which we need to identify and correct.

    Culture is an adaptive social mechanism. Western culture has not self-destructed; it is maladaptive to the specific circumstances. Can it change, adapt? Maybe. The enemy is no longer the invaders, the destroyers per se. The enemy is the corrupted government structure that overlies the culture and controls the economy and legal systems.

  319. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Steve Gittelson

    They cannot be convinced. Cannot.

    Certainly not by insults devoid of even the pretense of an argument. You, I take it, are more of a push-over.

  320. @Xenos

    “You were lucky to have Michael Levin as your logic prof.”

    You betcha. I was fortunate to have any connection to Levin.

    I bought the book.

  321. @AnonFromTN

    2. This argument is old and tired.

    No, your rejoinder is, because it totally missed my point.

    It was, can thought itself derive solely from material processes? If not, things could evolve forever and a day without ever stopping to consider. Consciousness itself may belong in the class with perpetual motion and faster-than-light travel.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  322. @CanSpeccy

    The materialist view of the world destroys traditional religious faith and, as a consequence of the demise of religious faith, the most scientifically advanced societies are undergoing a demographic catastrophe.

    In short, accepting Darwinism renders a population unfit.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  323. Harbinger says:
    @dfordoom

    The problem is that western culture clearly doesn’t work. It has self-destructed. Obviously there are some serious flaws in our culture which we need to identify and correct. Some of our traditions which have grown up in the past few hundred years are traditions that we should jettison.

    Western culture most certainly does work. Everything that is in the world today has been as a result of the success and skill of Europeans. Western culture hasn’t self destructed it has been DELIBERATELY sabotaged and there’s a clear difference. Did you read the link that I gave in my last reply?

    The only place, in this world, where civilization has been destroyed has been in the west and of course, middle eastern nations, by the west. The eternal parasite – the Jew, through the control of the msm, academia, politics has utterly obliterated values, morals, family, femininity, masculinity…everything that our culture proudly had no longer does.
    And they wrote down their plan not only in the Protocols of Zion, but have spoken openly in their meetings, in their newspapers, as lecturers in colleges and universities.

    There are certainly things that should NEVER, EVER, EVER have been allowed:

    1. The suffragette movement and giving women the vote.
    2. Following point one no women in positions of power.
    3. Allowing Jews back into the lands they were previously exiled from, especially the UK, but then Oliver Cromwell saw to that.
    4. Immigration – period!

    The creation of the state is a direct result of woman. Women are weak and therefore seek protection. The more women choose careers over family, the bigger the state grows and along with it the police state. When women are put into positions of power they act with their heart instead of their head. A dead baby on some beach will have them flooding tears all over the place, demanding refugees and immigrants immediately be let in, regardless that 99% of them aren’t refugees, but young men of fighting age, ready to wage a war when the call comes.
    The very thing that kept the west together and strong was the patriarchy, the very enemy of feminism. Now we no longer have one, the patriarchy of Islam will most certainly dominate over the matriarchy that the west now is, with all those silly feminists being forced into burkhas, pumping out baby Muhammads, straight or not. Lesbians will get one choice and feminism will have as much power as a glass hammer.

    Our society has been destroyed because the Jews have used woman against their menfolk and have succeeded. They have empowered women, having them fight for equality when women knew they already were. They were really fighting for supremacy which they now have.

  324. CalDre says:
    @dfordoom

    the driving force behind the diversity agenda is Jewish supremacism” – there, fixed it for ya. Just note Hollywood and media and music and “modern art” and porn and the remaining trash “culture” is all Jewish.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  325. CalDre says:
    @HogHappenin

    I keep hearing Ron Unz is Jewish. What does that mean? Aside from an unsupported Wikipedia assertion without any links (a Wikipedia policy violation, but then again there are millions of those) I can’t find anything about that. Neither in his own biography (heading: “Who is Ron Unz”) on this site, or on his own website, does he identify as being Jewish or claim Jewish heritage.

    • Replies: @Truth
  326. @Reg Cæsar

    It is truly amazing how predictable ignoramuses are. As usual, you are mixing totally different things. Perpetual motion is physically impossible, faster-than-light travel was never observed, but the jury is still out (Einstein physics is likely as limited as Newtonian physics, but we don’t have a coherent next step yet), whereas consciousness does exist.
    And yes, consciousness and thought are the result of purely material processes. Those who study animal behavior (or at least have pets and pay attention to them) know that there is a continuum from mouse (emotions with very limited awareness of the environment and no self-awareness) through rats (emotions with better awareness of the environment), dogs (emotions and good awareness of the environment with rudiments of self-awareness), monkeys, apes (some self-awareness), regular church-goers (a bit more self-awareness), to true humans with well developed awareness of the environment and self-awareness. However, one can only argue with a person who knows something and therefore understands arguments. So I stop here.

  327. Truth says:
    @CalDre

    I had always heard LeBron James was black. I couldn’t find any peer-reviewed proof, but I tend to believe it due to his basketball ability.

  328. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Reg Cæsar

    In short, accepting Darwinism renders a population unfit.

    As you will surely agree, both my statement and your conclusion from it are based on many debatable assumptions. Thus, while your inference may, broadly speaking, be true of the present age, it is not necessarily or even probably true if viewed in a wider perspective.

    Not only Darwinism, but science as a whole, made traditional religious (Christian) faith incompatible with the modern understanding of reality. Since faith in science trumped religious faith, the moral system upheld by traditional Christianity collapsed, although it did so gradually since the effect of a religious moral training persists as a habit of mind after the rational structure upon which it is justified has collapsed.

    But it is not the case that a system of belief consistent with national survival must be based upon ideas contradicted by science. The ongoing decline of the West reflects either a failure of leadership or the treason of the elites. That the elite have inflicted Western nations with the religion of Political Correctness, indicates the latter to be the case for the reasons that Peter Lasch stated.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  329. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @Daniel Chieh

    Nothing really puzzling about Utu.

    He merely requires submission to his opinion, whether it be that Isaac Newton was a fraud, Einstein was a plagiarist, Leo Tolstoy was a saint, or that the North American epidemic of obesity and diabetes is explained by a simple mathematical equality.

    Confronted by disagreement, he reacts like an angry monkey at the zoo, pelting the recalcitrant dissident with lumps of shit. Sometimes, though, the assault is delayed until the victim’s guard is down. Then the shit flies.

  330. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CalDre

    “the driving force behind the diversity agenda is Jewish supremacism” – there, fixed it for ya. Just note Hollywood and media and music and “modern art” and porn and the remaining trash “culture” is all Jewish.

    There’s no question that much of what passes for American culture is Jewish culture. And much of what passes for American culture is black culture.

    But the drive to impose American culture and American values on the entire planet cannot be explained entirely by the Jewish influence. America was already an aggressive imperialist power before there was any significant Jewish influence. I think you have to look at the peculiar qualities of American Protestantism as well. And the bizarre partnership between Jews and Evangelical Christians.

    There’s also the pernicious influence of the Enlightenment, which also fuelled the French Revolution and the attempts to impose the French Revolution on the rest of Europe.

    • Replies: @utu
  331. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Since faith in science trumped religious faith, the moral system upheld by traditional Christianity collapsed

    The gradual collapse of Christian morality has certainly been a problem but I’m not sure it’s the biggest problem. I’m inclined to think that the worst effect of the triumph of Science was simply that it took away all hope. The universe has no purpose. Life has no meaning. Everything is futile. The only answer is to pursue material greed and hedonism in a desperate attempt to take one’s mind off the futility of everything. That’s pretty much the modern West.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  332. utu says:
    @dfordoom

    You are thinking of important issues. While this is an academic question I would like to see, if possible, an analysis of what would be American trajectory w/o Jewish influence. Certainly it was not Jews who planted the idea of continental empire in the minds of founding fathers. It was not Jews behind Mexican and Spanish wars.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  333. dfordoom says: • Website
    @utu

    While this is an academic question I would like to see, if possible, an analysis of what would be American trajectory w/o Jewish influence. Certainly it was not Jews who planted the idea of continental empire in the minds of founding fathers. It was not Jews behind Mexican and Spanish wars.

    Without Jews the U.S. would still have waged imperialist wars and would still have attempted to achieve global hegemony. There’s no question of that.

    But without Jewish influence U.S. imperialism might have pursued different targets. Without Jewish influence there would most likely have been much less American focus on the Middle East. Possibly more focus on the Asia-Pacific sphere (which was in fact the major focus of American imperialism before WW2). Possibly a greater emphasis on annexing territories in Latin America rather tham merely dominating the region. It’s possible the U.S. would have annexed Mexico and most of Central America.

    Possibly there would have less of an obsession with imposing American culture on the rest of the world. The American Empire might have been more cynically self-serving but more honest (kind of like the European colonial empires).

  334. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    … the worst effect of the triumph of Science was simply that it took away all hope.

    I don’t see that. Hope of what? Hope of going to heaven and singing eternal praise to that shit Yahweh. Nah.

    Science has expanded the range of things people can hope for, although this benefit comes with an expanded range of possibilities for the early extinction of humanity.

    But if people have lost hope, it is because they live in a crap civilization where they are fed fake news, fake food, fake Internet/Hollywood sex, and fake everything else. In the creation of those evils, science has played an essential role, but all have depended on the existence of a corrupt government under the sway of an evil plutocratic elite.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  335. utu says:

    W/o Jews there were still Judaising elements in American Protestantism and the sense of “evangelizing” mission which were combined with great hostility towards Catholicism and some traditional European cultural elements that stemmed form Greek and Roman traditions.

    I can imagine that w/o Jews America would first conquered and pacified South America more than it did. When America is looking elsewhere like into the Middle East South America has more room and can breath easier. This happen during Bush II presidency when neocons did not focus on South America. But once Obama came the global American doctrine was restored (Brzezinski) and the dissent in South America was pretty much pacified.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  336. Bill says:
    @res

    That said, I think it unlikely that the linear extrapolation of the additive model works all the way out to 100SD.

    Exactly. Turning more – to + at some point is going to saturate pathways / pile up behind bottlenecks or manifest side effects as buffers of something-or-another are exhausted. Trees don’t grow to the sky.

  337. c matt says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Because she’s smart and talented.

  338. c matt says:

    I’m sure she’s smart, but seems odd that someone with zilch civil trial practice experience would teach remedies. But then, as they say – those who can’t do . . . .

    • Replies: @keypusher
  339. dfordoom says: • Website
    @CanSpeccy

    Science has expanded the range of things people can hope for

    Actually I’d say it’s dramatically narrowed the range of things people can hope for. Science and technology have given us material prosperity and consumer goodies. And then it’s told us that that’s all there is. There’s no meaning, no purpose.

    There are people who seem to be natural atheists. They just genuinely don’t seem to be bothered by the futility and bleakness of a purely materialist worldview. The trouble is that they’re a small minority but they assume that atheism will make everybody else happy as well.

    I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative here. I really believe it’s just that some people are wired differently. I don’t think those people are better or worse than those who are wired the other way. But it does mean that there’s an unbridgeable gap between those for whom materialism/atheism is satisfying and those who find materialism/atheism totally unsatisfying.

    The present state of society suggests that materialism hasn’t worked for most people – they desperately try to hold themselves together with hedonism and drugs (usually prescription drugs) but they feel lost and empty.

    But if people have lost hope, it is because they live in a crap civilization where they are fed fake news, fake food, fake Internet/Hollywood sex, and fake everything else.

    That’s true but where we differ is that I strongly suspect that the collapse of religion has created that crap civilisation.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
    , @CanSpeccy
  340. dfordoom says: • Website
    @utu

    W/o Jews there were still Judaising elements in American Protestantism and the sense of “evangelizing” mission which were combined with great hostility towards Catholicism and some traditional European cultural elements that stemmed form Greek and Roman traditions.

    And I strongly suspect that that has been the single biggest explanation for America’s endless wars.

    The neocons didn’t create American imperialism, they simply hijacked it for their own ends.

    I can imagine that w/o Jews America would first conquered and pacified South America more than it did.

    The U.S. would still have been a superpower, but possibly a superpower with little or no interest in Europe and thus little or no interest in interfering in European wars.

  341. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    There’s no meaning, no purpose.

    What exactly is the meaning that life acquires with religious faith?

    Suppose one attains eternal life in Heaven, what’s the point? I see no meaning or purpose of a life in heaven. At least, no more than there is in this one and only earthly life.

    And in the Judeo-Christian Heaven, under the eye of that tyrannical sadist Yahweh, who compelled Pharoah to deny the Israelites an exit visa just for the pleasure of inflicting more plagues on the Egyptians, the prospect for a satisfactory purpose to life eternal appears slight.

    There are people who seem to be natural atheists.

    Yes, all children. Haven’t you noticed? These natural heathens are full of enthusiasm, drive and ambition. Sure they suffer too, disappointment and misery, but also triumph and delight. They don’t stop to ask what’s the point of it all, what’s the meaning of life. When they fall, they just pick themselves up and get going again.

    That’s how atheists live — and healthy religious believers too.

    It is the case, I know, that a huge proportion of the Western population suffers from mental illness, something like 25% of the population of the US and the EU is, reportedly, diagnosed with some kind of mental illness in any year. But that is mainly, I believe, the result of a toxic culture and a toxic diet.

    Trash FaceBook, junk your TV, cut out sugar and ground meat, abandon the Internet, and instead, grow a garden or take up some other physical activity, read good books, work at friend and family relationships, if you’re musical, take up playing an instrument, and life acquires both meaning and purpose.

    Not that I’m against religion if it suits a person. I think Jesus gave sound advice on how to pray: which was to speak with God as one would speak with a loving father, the value of it being to force one to be truthful with oneself. And, when you have formulated your request to God in terms that an all knowing God who understands your innermost thought will find honest and reasonable, you will likely find that your problems take on a different aspect and may even solve themselves.

    And who knows, you may receive the benefit of divine intervention too. Even an atheist assumes that, however irrational that may seem. Thus, as that Victorian atheist, Winston Churchill, said, “In times of fear or perplexity, I pray to God, and it helps. It helps a lot.”

  342. CanSpeccy says: • Website
    @dfordoom

    That’s true but where we differ is that I strongly suspect that the collapse of religion has created that crap civilisation.

    There’s more to it than that. Religion was dismantled in order to bring in a crap civilization, the crap civilization being the tool to reduce the mass of mankind to a condition of servitude.

    This is a servitude now firmly established, not with the lash or with chains, but with instruments of finance, propaganda and trivial distraction that have ruined the majority of the population financially and intellectually, thereby ensuring that in an age of unparalleled abundance, the great majority of the people exist in a condition of wage slavery or welfare dependency.

    And because there is a superficial conflict between religion and science, responsibility for the death of religion is very conveniently laid at the door of science. But without the work of the professional and very well paid haters of religion, such as Richard Dawkins and countless other rather stupid scientists and philosophers, I doubt whether many would ever have noticed such a conflict. What, after all, does the average American know about science? Or about anything?

  343. keypusher says:
    @c matt

    That’s easy. “Remedies” means all the goodies you can obtain via a lawsuit — injunctions, the various types of damages, declaratory relief, etc. You no more need trial experience to teach remedies than you need to be a published author to teach the parts of speech.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments on articles more than two weeks old will be judged much more strictly on quality and tone


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
Submitted comments become the property of The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All John Derbyshire Comments via RSS