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The Sun People Tsunami and the Inevitability of Lifeboat Ethics
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Our Ruling Class’s anxieties about the Russians, and their anxieties about us, have a deckchairs-on-the-Titanic quality about them. Peering forward into the middle 21st century as best I am able, there are much bigger issues looming.

Nine years ago I wrote a piece titled The Arctic Alliance.” My argument, in a nutshell, was that the north-Eurasian nations—that is, Europe (along with some of its settler nations like Australia and the U.S.A.), Russia, China, Japan, and the Koreas—shared common strengths and a common weakness.

The common strengths are high average IQ and a long record of civilizational attainment, with the aforementioned blots duly noted. The common weakness is demographic collapse—below-replacement birth rates.

I suggested that these “Arctic” nations should stop bickering among themselves and join forces in self-preservation against the ballooning low-average-IQ populations of the temperate and tropical zones. Hence the Arctic Alliance.

Now, nine years on, with millions of Sun People pouring into those Ice People nations, I think I’m entitled to at least a whispered “I told you so.”

Recently, the New York Times ran a report headlined Heat, Hunger and War Force Africans Onto a “Road on Fire”. The piece is about the Sahel: that east-west strip along Africa where the southern Sahara Desert meets the grasslands and woodlands further south. The “Road on Fire” is the road out of there, on the people-smuggling routes across the Sahara , north to the Mediterranean and Europe.

Steve Sailer n oticed the same report, and has some pithy comments about it. I can’t improve on Steve, but I urge listeners to check out the report. It’s revealing in two different ways.

  • Way One, which Steve concentrates on, is the style of the reporting, in which all the appalling problems of this region—overpopulation, poverty, the loss of trees and arable land—are blamed on the demon white man.
  • Way Two is the utter hopelessness of the situation there. As the population surges upwards it becomes ever more difficult to make a living. The land has been sucked dry. Whatever you think about global warming, it sure doesn’t look as though it’ll be getting cooler and wetter down there any time soon.

And the human capital is poor: low-IQ populations, not well adapted to modern societies, with no native industries or expertise in anything much. There has been no civilization down there in the Sahel, other than what European colonizers brought in. It’s not smug or spiteful to point that out, it’s just factual.

Yet still the populations surge. Niger, right in the middle of the strip, has a total fertility rate of almost seven children per woman, the highest in the world. Seven children per woman. Mali and Burkina Faso, to the west, are just below six; Chad to the east is a comparatively feeble four and a half.

Those numbers are way different from the corresponding numbers for Ice People. For Europe as a whole, the total fertility rate is 1.6 children per woman. Russia and China are about the same. Japan is 1.4, South Korea 1.25, North Korea … who knows?

That’s the demographic tsunami that’s been starting to come ashore in Europe this past year and a half. Set against that, our children and grandchildren in the middle of this century will look back with amazement at our intra-Arctic bickering about whether Vladimir Putin did or did not assist in releasing John Podesta’s emails.

There are ethical and ideological issues to go along with the demographic ones.

For example: How will moral universalism hold up as the demographic waters rise? Right now millions of people from these hopeless regions, and other places like Afghanistan (total fertility rate 5.22) are journeying north across the Sahara or westwards through the Middle East to break into Europe; and the Europeans, in their naïve moral universality, are letting them in.

That at least offers some relief to those swelling populations in Hopelessland. But what happens when Europeans decide, as they surely will, that while a million or two African and Muslim “migrants” is OK, ten or twenty million is not, and a hundred million is totally out of court? Africa alone easily has a hundred million desperate souls to spare.

All sorts of questions arise. Will the word “racist” continue to be a premier insult when everyone—everyone but a small rearguard of moral-universalist cranks—agrees that our Ice People nations have all the black Africans they can handle?

And how will the black population of the U.S.A. process that? Will they clamor for solidarity with their African brothers and sisters, demanding that we admit a few tens of millions of them? Or will First-Worldiness trump racial solidarity, and blacks join whites in calling for the drawbridge to be pulled up?

What about the other end of Eurasia? Will the Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans continue to keep their nations’ doors tight shut even as their populations dwindle? Will they be able to?

There’s a lot of questions there, but I don’t have any answers. When I think about these things, all I can come up with is Lifeboat Ethics. Quote from the foundational text:

So here we sit, say 50 people in our lifeboat. To be generous, let us assume it has room for 10 more, making a total capacity of 60. Suppose the 50 of us in the lifeboat see 100 others swimming in the water outside, begging for admission to our boat or for handouts. We have several options: we may be tempted to try to live by the Christian ideal of being “our brother’s keeper,” or by the Marxist ideal of “to each according to his needs.” Since the needs of all in the water are the same, and since they can all be seen as “our brothers,” we could take them all into our boat, making a total of 150 in a boat designed for 60. The boat swamps, everyone drowns. Complete justice, complete catastrophe …

Suppose we decide to preserve our small safety factor and admit no more to the lifeboat. Our survival is then possible although we shall have to be constantly on guard against boarding parties.

Lifeboat Ethics: the Case Against Helping the Poor

by Garrett Hardin, Psychology Today, September 1974

Yes, that’s bleak, but who’s got anything else to say? Who, actually—other than me—who is thinking about these issues?

Steve Sailer, in his commentary on the New York Times report, implies that we need to get Africans using birth control. Haven’t we been trying that for, like, my entire lifetime?

ORDER IT NOW

Like Steve, I’m a gentle soul who wishes no harm to anyone. I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel, in their poverty and hopelessness. They didn’t ask to be born there, any more than I asked to be born in the West. I got lucky and they didn’t. It’s a shame. It’s not fair. I entirely agree.

At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity.

I really hope there is some humane way we can science our way out of this colossal problem that’s bearing down on us. But I don’t see it.

Look at our reaction to the taking of Aleppo in Syria’s civil war. The city seems definitely to have fallen this week, to the forces of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies.

A good thing? A bad thing? Well, a lot of people, including a lot of unarmed civilians, have been maimed and killed. That’s bad. But then, if the fall of Aleppo means the civil war is coming to an end, that’s good. But then again, if the civil war ends with Assad and Putin the victors, that’s bad because they are both deeply unpleasant people who regard constitutional government and the rule of law with scorn. But then again again, if Assad isn’t fighting his own rebel generals, maybe he and his Iranian pals will concentrate on fighting ISIS, which would be good.

That’s all grist for ruminations in journals of geopolitical strategy. But what does any of it mean for the U.S.A.?

Not a darn thing, so far as I can see.

When the U.S.A. was having our own very bloody civil war, the great-great-grandparents of the current inhabitants of Aleppo were subjects of the Ottoman Empire. Did the Ottoman Sultan and his pashas fret over the suffering people of Atlanta and Richmond? Did the traders and craftsmen of Aleppo? I doubt it.

Nations will have civil wars, and they do tend to be nasty affairs. If you feel an urge to help the people of Aleppo, all the usual organizations are making efforts to get stuff in, though apparently with mixed success: the International Rescue Committee, Save the Children, Médecins Sans Frontières, and so on. If the spirit of charity moves you, they’ll be glad of your donations.

However, to judge from conversations I’ve had and comment threads I’ve seen, Americans are not much stirred by the Aleppo horrors. It seems to me in fact that there has been a general hardening of hearts in the West during my lifetime towards human catastrophes in the Third World.

I remember for example the Nigerian civil war of the late 1960s. I was living in England at the time so I can’t speak about American attitudes; but I recall a lot of people being genuinely distressed at all the suffering there. I’m not seeing that in relation to Syria.

Compassion fatigue? Middle East mayhem fatigue? Or were those upset Brits of 1968 just indulging in post-imperial guilt? (Nigeria had been a British colony until 1960. I can still, for some reason, remember the name of the first Prime Minister of independent Nigeria: Sir Abubakar Tafawa Balewa, last seen sprawled in a ditch outside Lagos with a very nasty case of lead poisoning, victim of a coup.)

That’s impressionistic, and might be wrong. Still, if Lifeboat Ethics is in fact going to be the default outlook of mid-21st century Ice People, it may be that the necessary adjustment—the hardening of hearts, the averting of eyes—has been under way for a while.

The future, said Arthur Koestler, casts a shadow back into the past.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjectsfor all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He’s had two books published by VDARE.com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and From the Dissident Right II: Essays 2013. His writings are archived atJohnDerbyshire.com.

(Republished from VDare.com by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Europeans and Americans are pretty much in denial about the numbers involved. Even if we get wise, it may not be soon enough. And it doesn’t help that our societies are afflicted with self-styled do-gooders, SJW types who are hell-bent on wrecking every single thing that was once good about western civilization.

    Leading the way, of course, are our MSM and their owners, with their 24/7/365 onslaught of propaganda, masquerading as entertainment and information. They are the only enemies of our civilization we really need to be worried about.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Leading the way, of course, are our MSM and their owners, with their 24/7/365 onslaught of propaganda, masquerading as entertainment and information. They are the only enemies of our civilization we really need to be worried about.
     
    I am inclined to see the MSM as the weapon of our enemies, not so much as "enemies" themselves.

    What would be a productive approach to the process of eliminating "journalism" as a weapon, while leaving it intact as an information service?
    , @Corvinus
    "And it doesn’t help that our societies are afflicted with self-styled do-gooders, SJW types who are hell-bent on wrecking every single thing that was once good about western civilization."

    So, you mean "bad whites", right?

    Listen, white Americans in general don't think of their society in terms of "western civilization". They view it as the American civilization.

    Now, Johnny...

    "There has been no civilization down there in the Sahel, other than what European colonizers brought in. It’s not smug or spiteful to point that out, it’s just factual."

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts. It might have been as sophisticated as Europeans, but Africans had centralized government, job specialization, organized religion, and arts/architecture.

    "I suggested that these “Arctic” nations should stop bickering among themselves and join forces in self-preservation against the ballooning low-average-IQ populations of the temperate and tropical zones."

    White people are preserving themselves in their own ways. Perhaps you are not a fan of their strategies. Maybe you should run for political office and tout your plans to the masses.

    "Steve Sailer, in his commentary on the New York Times report, implies that we need to get Africans using birth control."

    Why? Is it not up to the person individually to decide whether or not to produce offspring? How do you propose forcing Africans to stop having children, considering that a number of their long-standing problems were the direct result of the Invade The World, Invite The World crowd known as white Europeans?

    "At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity."

    Replace "Western Civilization" with "human civilizations" and you are on to something.
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  2. ” .. the human capital is poor: low-IQ populations, not well adapted to modern societies, with no native industries or expertise in anything much. ”
    Cool beans. We’ll just let them stroll into 55°N, and wait. Nothing we can do about it, we’re broke already, and winter is here. Which is why we don’t go crazy on the bambino train.

    Read More
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  3. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    The GLOB says Russians have nukes and Russians are coming.

    But Russians won’t use their nukes, and they are not coming to the West.

    But black Africans have mega-dongs and they are cumming all over the West and taking over white wombs as aging whites go to their tombs.

    It will be the end of the West.

    Feminism was bound to fail.

    There is a thing called Political Ecology, and its seeks balance and equilibrium.

    When feminism in the West cut off the balls of white men, the new order hankered for return of masculinism. A society without manly man is like human body craving for iron in the blood.
    Since white men, associated with Evil, weren’t allowed to supply the masculine content, the West came to look elsewhere, esp black Africa and the Muslim world, for the masculine content.

    Feminism cannot work because it has too many contradictions.

    On the one hand, it is an individualist ideology that says women and men should be judged for their individual merit. So, if a woman does better in school than a man, she should be favored on meritocratic grounds. In this sense, feminism is purely individualist-meritocratic.

    But another side of feminism is ‘socialist’ and collectivist and urges women as ‘sisters’ to unite together for their Womyn Interest that violates the rules of individual-meritocracy. So, feminism lobbied for more women in the military even though women, based on individual merit, cannot compete with men.

    The individualist side of feminism says superior women should be favored over inferior men in the name of meritocracy, but the socialist side of feminism says inferior women should be favored over superior men in the name of Sisterhood.

    This is obviously crazy, but white men caved to it. And in doing so, they lost their balls. And in our high stress society, people need someone to blame and scapegoat. Since PC made white males the BAD GUYS, everyone dumps all their problems on white males, and white males have been totally cucked.

    But are white women really happy that white men are a bunch of cucks? No. Women, esp successful women, want sexual desire and that comes from being with men with masculine qualities. More successful a woman is, the more she looks for a masterful man with alpha qualities. She has no use for beta-cucks. Feminism says it is for social equality, but feminism is about women ‘having the best’. Best jobs and best men. Feminist women don’t want just some regular guy who drives a truck or washes dishes. It seeks fulfillment with best of everything. Feminism uses egalitarian rhetoric, but feminist power is totally elitist. And successful women want the most manly men.

    But since white men are not allowed to be men and since white men are such dorks, there is a female craving for real men. Human nature calls for this equilibrium since white men have been reduced to such dorks.
    And this equilibrium is filled by welcoming macho men from black Africa and Muslim lands. Black men got muscle and dong, and Muslim men don’t give a shit about acting dorky and beta.

    Of course, the best way to restore the male/female equilibrium would be allow white men to be manly and proud again. But PC says that must not be so. White men must be beta, dorky, apologetic, and wussy. So, feminists subconsciously look to OTHER men to restore the equilibrium.

    But this will lead to the downfall of the West cuz Muslim men got lower IQ and black men got lower IQ and savage genes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    This is essentially the argument that the poster "Whiskey" makes. Using Derb's lifeboat analogy, the women in the boat so despise their male co-passengers that they will take survivors from the water, as long as they are hyper-masculine, until the boat collapses. Whiskey gets a lot of abuse from other posters, but his arguments have always made sense to me. Female preference for hyper-masculine males is not the only explanation for the dilemma we face, but it is an important component of the overall problem mind-set.
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  4. pyrrhus says:

    Like Steve, I’m a gentle soul who wishes no harm to anyone. I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel, in their poverty and hopelessness. They didn’t ask to be born there, any more than I asked to be born in the West. I got lucky and they didn’t. It’s a shame. It’s not fair. I entirely agree.

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity.

    Derb, did someone actually tell you that life is fair, whatever that means? Our ancestors built the West and Western civilization. The people of the Sahel, for whatever reason, didn’t build anything except villages and massive overpopulation, because of their very low IQs and tribal societies. Not my problem, or my kids’ problem. Mother Nature and Reverend Malthus will solve everything in time, but unless the West wants to be part of that gruesome process, it had better keep 3d worlders out. If we have too many “gentle souls”–i.e. people who want to virtue signal and pearl clutch, the West will be obliterated. And that will not be gentle….

    Read More
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    The people of the Sahel, for whatever reason, didn’t build anything except villages and massive overpopulation
     
    They actually didn't have overpopulation until well-meaning westerners tried to help them.
    , @Corvinus
    "Our ancestors built the West and Western civilization."

    In large part on the backs of and at the expense of other civilizations.

    "The people of the Sahel, for whatever reason, didn’t build anything except villages and massive overpopulation, because of their very low IQs and tribal societies."

    Yet, white Europeans found their resources to be ever so enticing.

    "Not my problem, or my kids’ problem. Mother Nature and Reverend Malthus will solve everything in time, but unless the West wants to be part of that gruesome process..."

    Why do you and others here have this perverted obsession with the West, which most whites have little or no ties to?
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  5. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “What about the other end of Eurasia? Will the Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans continue to keep their nations’ doors tight shut even as their populations dwindle? Will they be able to?”

    It they move to automation and robotics, this should be doable.

    But if they adopt the ideology of the West, it could be suicide, esp as East Asians are even smaller, weaker, and more timid than white people. They wouldn’t know what to do with diversity and will just cower like wussies as their nations fill up with Negroes.

    The problem is ideology. After all, EU doesn’t need all these new comers despite dropping demographics.
    In fact, we are told that automation will do away with lots of jobs.
    And many newcomers live on welfare.

    So, it is ideology that is destroying the West.

    I don’t see falling demography as necessarily bad for a nation like Japan where land is scarce and where many lower-level jobs have been lost to China.

    I mean a nation is not a number. Japan is Japan with 100 million Japanese, 70 million Japanese, 50 million Japanese, 25 million Japanese. As long as they are all Japanese, it is Japan.
    But if we define Japan by the magic number of 100 million, then Japan would be Japan if it were 75 million non-Japanese and 25 million Japanese. But that’s crazy.

    Read More
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  6. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Another great piece from the Derb, he keeps getting better, like Pat Buchanan.

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  7. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    The message of Cuckrope and Cuckasia to Africa: Come beat up our sons and impregnate our daughters.

    It’s funny. Blacks have done least for civilization and pose the greatest destructive threat to civilization. While Germans, Russians, Anglos, Japanese, Persians, and etc have done their share of destruction, they always destroyed one order to replace with another. So, even as they destroyed civilization at times, they built another one in its stead.
    In contrast, when blacks destroy something, there is nothing left and no chance of renewal. Look at Haiti, Detroit, Baltimore. If not for government handouts to people in Detroit, it would be no better than Haiti or Liberia.
    When rabid Chinese destroyed stuff in the Cultural Revolution, that was bad stuff. But when they came to their senses, they quickly rebuilt industrial China. In contrast, blacks never come to their senses since they have no good sense to begin with.

    Blacks have done least for civilization but no other people are more promoted, celebrated, served, praised, and worshiped by civilization.

    One reason is US dominates the world, and blacks dominate sports and pop music in the US. American Culture is World Culture. And as US goes more porny and jungle-feverish, it spreads mandingo-mania and bootisha-mania all over the world. Now, white women get butt surgeries to get black-like butts to be humped by Negroes.
    Also, US narrative dominates world media and academia. So, if whites feel special ‘historical guilt’ for Negroes, this ‘guilt’ must be shared by ALL peoples, even those who had no contact with blacks.
    For example, suppose there’s news that Thailand people are prejudice against Hindus, Turks, Cambodians, or Arabs. Who would care? But suppose Thais said something nasty about blacks, and it becomes World News. Then, Thais come under great pressure. While the Global Narrative overlooks local prejudices — who cares what Turks feel about Kurds and vice versa? — , the Global Prejudices against Jews, Negroes, and Homos are not tolerated. Those three groups must be praised by ALL groups.

    [MORE]

    Another reason is blacks dominate track and fields in Olympics. Even though Olympics can only be staged by advanced civilizations like US, Europe, China, and Japan, athletics is about raw animal power, and Negroes win. So, all this great civilizational enterprise by non-blacks in orchestrating massive sporting events only end up hailing the Negro as the king of the world with the right to hump every ho.
    All that effort of civilization end up celebrating the most savage of races.

    Only civilization can build and manage complex organizations of entertainment, sports, and other mass leisure events. But in seeking ultra-thrills and ultra-pleasure, consumers of the civilized order become enamored of the Badass Negro who done whup the whitey in hollering, humping, jumping, and pumping(his fists). So, all the collective achievements of Western Civilization has gone to serving the Negro as the Lion King or Gorilla Lord, aka Gorillord.

    Also, there is the Jewish factor. White race-ists knew that the Negro can whup the white man’s butt and steal the white woman. So, they devised necessary discriminatory systems in the past to maintain Safe Spaces for white race, white pride, and white preservation.

    But Jews wanted to topple white power. To do this, Jews played on ‘white guilt’ and ‘white pleasure’. Jews said whites better atone for the sins against the holy magic Negro, and Jews also said whites must put out to the wild-ass Negro who will provide white boys and girls with more pleasure. White boys get so many jollies cheering for the Negro master race heroes who be rapping louder and scoring the touchdowns, and white girls get more orgasmic pleasure from bigger Negro dong.

    So, this is the great paradox. White folks created all this great civilization, but its logistics and infrastructure are being used to hail, praise, and worship the Magic Negro, Mighty Mandingo, and Juicy-ass Bootisha who be ‘twerking’ all night long.

    I mean blacks cannot pull off something like NFL and superbowl as a business enterprise and entertainment complex. Only whites and Jews can. But NFL is nothing but a wild celebration of Negroes beating up white sons and impregnating white daughters.

    What shame. Caucasians have become Cuckosians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    The message of Cuckrope and Cuckasia to Africa: Come beat up our sons and impregnate our daughters.

    Correction:

    The message of Israel to Africa: Go to Europe and white countries and rape the goyim. Fall in line.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN3FUmPN1mY
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  8. dfordoom says: • Website
    @pyrrhus

    Like Steve, I’m a gentle soul who wishes no harm to anyone. I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel, in their poverty and hopelessness. They didn’t ask to be born there, any more than I asked to be born in the West. I got lucky and they didn’t. It’s a shame. It’s not fair. I entirely agree.

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity.
     
    Derb, did someone actually tell you that life is fair, whatever that means? Our ancestors built the West and Western civilization. The people of the Sahel, for whatever reason, didn't build anything except villages and massive overpopulation, because of their very low IQs and tribal societies. Not my problem, or my kids' problem. Mother Nature and Reverend Malthus will solve everything in time, but unless the West wants to be part of that gruesome process, it had better keep 3d worlders out. If we have too many "gentle souls"--i.e. people who want to virtue signal and pearl clutch, the West will be obliterated. And that will not be gentle....

    The people of the Sahel, for whatever reason, didn’t build anything except villages and massive overpopulation

    They actually didn’t have overpopulation until well-meaning westerners tried to help them.

    Read More
    • Agree: dc.sunsets
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  9. Look at the bright side.

    Blacks coming North? Great! Give them Lapland, maybe all of Scandinavia-Siberia too. Do ‘Nordics’ really like the cold that much? Do White Americans vacation in Florida or Montana? Doesn’t everyone in Margaritaville need sunscreen?

    Any space in the Sun opening up is okay by me.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    Pancreatic cancer metastasizing to the brain doesn't make the pancreas all better.
    , @Johnny
    Keep the unwashed filth out of my homeland yankee, I like this cold land very much and don't want to see it sacrificed on the US alter of rampant globalism.
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  10. “if the civil war ends with Assad and Putin the victors, that’s bad because they are both deeply unpleasant people who regard constitutional government and the rule of law with scorn”

    What utter bollocks from a poc neocon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Con. gov. and r. of l. are just superstitions at this stage, but it's hard for someone to say goodbye to superstitions that he has had all his life.
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  11. Anon says: • Website • Disclaimer
    @Anon
    The message of Cuckrope and Cuckasia to Africa: Come beat up our sons and impregnate our daughters.

    It's funny. Blacks have done least for civilization and pose the greatest destructive threat to civilization. While Germans, Russians, Anglos, Japanese, Persians, and etc have done their share of destruction, they always destroyed one order to replace with another. So, even as they destroyed civilization at times, they built another one in its stead.
    In contrast, when blacks destroy something, there is nothing left and no chance of renewal. Look at Haiti, Detroit, Baltimore. If not for government handouts to people in Detroit, it would be no better than Haiti or Liberia.
    When rabid Chinese destroyed stuff in the Cultural Revolution, that was bad stuff. But when they came to their senses, they quickly rebuilt industrial China. In contrast, blacks never come to their senses since they have no good sense to begin with.

    Blacks have done least for civilization but no other people are more promoted, celebrated, served, praised, and worshiped by civilization.

    One reason is US dominates the world, and blacks dominate sports and pop music in the US. American Culture is World Culture. And as US goes more porny and jungle-feverish, it spreads mandingo-mania and bootisha-mania all over the world. Now, white women get butt surgeries to get black-like butts to be humped by Negroes.
    Also, US narrative dominates world media and academia. So, if whites feel special 'historical guilt' for Negroes, this 'guilt' must be shared by ALL peoples, even those who had no contact with blacks.
    For example, suppose there's news that Thailand people are prejudice against Hindus, Turks, Cambodians, or Arabs. Who would care? But suppose Thais said something nasty about blacks, and it becomes World News. Then, Thais come under great pressure. While the Global Narrative overlooks local prejudices --- who cares what Turks feel about Kurds and vice versa? --- , the Global Prejudices against Jews, Negroes, and Homos are not tolerated. Those three groups must be praised by ALL groups.

    Another reason is blacks dominate track and fields in Olympics. Even though Olympics can only be staged by advanced civilizations like US, Europe, China, and Japan, athletics is about raw animal power, and Negroes win. So, all this great civilizational enterprise by non-blacks in orchestrating massive sporting events only end up hailing the Negro as the king of the world with the right to hump every ho.
    All that effort of civilization end up celebrating the most savage of races.

    Only civilization can build and manage complex organizations of entertainment, sports, and other mass leisure events. But in seeking ultra-thrills and ultra-pleasure, consumers of the civilized order become enamored of the Badass Negro who done whup the whitey in hollering, humping, jumping, and pumping(his fists). So, all the collective achievements of Western Civilization has gone to serving the Negro as the Lion King or Gorilla Lord, aka Gorillord.

    Also, there is the Jewish factor. White race-ists knew that the Negro can whup the white man's butt and steal the white woman. So, they devised necessary discriminatory systems in the past to maintain Safe Spaces for white race, white pride, and white preservation.

    But Jews wanted to topple white power. To do this, Jews played on 'white guilt' and 'white pleasure'. Jews said whites better atone for the sins against the holy magic Negro, and Jews also said whites must put out to the wild-ass Negro who will provide white boys and girls with more pleasure. White boys get so many jollies cheering for the Negro master race heroes who be rapping louder and scoring the touchdowns, and white girls get more orgasmic pleasure from bigger Negro dong.

    So, this is the great paradox. White folks created all this great civilization, but its logistics and infrastructure are being used to hail, praise, and worship the Magic Negro, Mighty Mandingo, and Juicy-ass Bootisha who be 'twerking' all night long.

    I mean blacks cannot pull off something like NFL and superbowl as a business enterprise and entertainment complex. Only whites and Jews can. But NFL is nothing but a wild celebration of Negroes beating up white sons and impregnating white daughters.

    What shame. Caucasians have become Cuckosians.

    The message of Cuckrope and Cuckasia to Africa: Come beat up our sons and impregnate our daughters.

    Correction:

    The message of Israel to Africa: Go to Europe and white countries and rape the goyim. Fall in line.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    I think at this point, even if Israel didn't exist, EU would go on committing suicide because its Christian morality has grown cancerous. EU is post-Christian but still rooted in the mindset of guilt-seeking-redemption and self-righteousness.

    Take Sweden. These crazies see themselves as a 'moral superpower'. It's not just people trying to be kindly and decent. It's a form of hubris.

    It's like a ethno-ego-trip or ethgo-trip.

    And even though NYT came to laud Merkel, the crazy hag came up with Welcome Idea on her own. And those German morons are likely to reelect her.
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  12. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon
    The message of Cuckrope and Cuckasia to Africa: Come beat up our sons and impregnate our daughters.

    Correction:

    The message of Israel to Africa: Go to Europe and white countries and rape the goyim. Fall in line.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN3FUmPN1mY

    I think at this point, even if Israel didn’t exist, EU would go on committing suicide because its Christian morality has grown cancerous. EU is post-Christian but still rooted in the mindset of guilt-seeking-redemption and self-righteousness.

    Take Sweden. These crazies see themselves as a ‘moral superpower’. It’s not just people trying to be kindly and decent. It’s a form of hubris.

    It’s like a ethno-ego-trip or ethgo-trip.

    And even though NYT came to laud Merkel, the crazy hag came up with Welcome Idea on her own. And those German morons are likely to reelect her.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Take Sweden. These crazies see themselves as a ‘moral superpower’. It’s not just people trying to be kindly and decent. It’s a form of hubris.
     
    It's the Sin of Pride.
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  13. Sigma O says:

    Don’t worry, the bio-viziers of the celestial neuro-mandarinate will eventually clean everything up humanely; their stratagems enforced by space soldiers and terracotta golems when force proves necessary.

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  14. Stan says:

    The Jewish dominated elite of America’s obsession with Israel and hatred of European Christians has resulted in a foreign policy which isolates and punishes Russia. Russia is slowly being forced to ally with China in the great struggle among the major powers to dominate Eurasia.

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  15. @Anon
    The GLOB says Russians have nukes and Russians are coming.

    But Russians won't use their nukes, and they are not coming to the West.

    But black Africans have mega-dongs and they are cumming all over the West and taking over white wombs as aging whites go to their tombs.

    It will be the end of the West.

    Feminism was bound to fail.

    There is a thing called Political Ecology, and its seeks balance and equilibrium.

    When feminism in the West cut off the balls of white men, the new order hankered for return of masculinism. A society without manly man is like human body craving for iron in the blood.
    Since white men, associated with Evil, weren't allowed to supply the masculine content, the West came to look elsewhere, esp black Africa and the Muslim world, for the masculine content.

    Feminism cannot work because it has too many contradictions.

    On the one hand, it is an individualist ideology that says women and men should be judged for their individual merit. So, if a woman does better in school than a man, she should be favored on meritocratic grounds. In this sense, feminism is purely individualist-meritocratic.

    But another side of feminism is 'socialist' and collectivist and urges women as 'sisters' to unite together for their Womyn Interest that violates the rules of individual-meritocracy. So, feminism lobbied for more women in the military even though women, based on individual merit, cannot compete with men.

    The individualist side of feminism says superior women should be favored over inferior men in the name of meritocracy, but the socialist side of feminism says inferior women should be favored over superior men in the name of Sisterhood.

    This is obviously crazy, but white men caved to it. And in doing so, they lost their balls. And in our high stress society, people need someone to blame and scapegoat. Since PC made white males the BAD GUYS, everyone dumps all their problems on white males, and white males have been totally cucked.

    But are white women really happy that white men are a bunch of cucks? No. Women, esp successful women, want sexual desire and that comes from being with men with masculine qualities. More successful a woman is, the more she looks for a masterful man with alpha qualities. She has no use for beta-cucks. Feminism says it is for social equality, but feminism is about women 'having the best'. Best jobs and best men. Feminist women don't want just some regular guy who drives a truck or washes dishes. It seeks fulfillment with best of everything. Feminism uses egalitarian rhetoric, but feminist power is totally elitist. And successful women want the most manly men.

    But since white men are not allowed to be men and since white men are such dorks, there is a female craving for real men. Human nature calls for this equilibrium since white men have been reduced to such dorks.
    And this equilibrium is filled by welcoming macho men from black Africa and Muslim lands. Black men got muscle and dong, and Muslim men don't give a shit about acting dorky and beta.

    Of course, the best way to restore the male/female equilibrium would be allow white men to be manly and proud again. But PC says that must not be so. White men must be beta, dorky, apologetic, and wussy. So, feminists subconsciously look to OTHER men to restore the equilibrium.

    But this will lead to the downfall of the West cuz Muslim men got lower IQ and black men got lower IQ and savage genes.

    This is essentially the argument that the poster “Whiskey” makes. Using Derb’s lifeboat analogy, the women in the boat so despise their male co-passengers that they will take survivors from the water, as long as they are hyper-masculine, until the boat collapses. Whiskey gets a lot of abuse from other posters, but his arguments have always made sense to me. Female preference for hyper-masculine males is not the only explanation for the dilemma we face, but it is an important component of the overall problem mind-set.

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    • Replies: @gustafus
    I am a woman ... and I agree. But I am an alpha female... much much different than other women.

    I am not a lesbian, but I have always attracted beta rather than alpha males. That seems to be the biology of my circumstance. That said... I agree in full with the poster.

    Females will destroy the planet with their preferences. I offered to give up my vote years ago if women were barred from voting. Women are not biologically suited to vote their own self interest.

    They simply don't have the cognitive skills.. or the emotional make up necessary when it's kill or be killed time... and that time has arrived.
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Yea, Whiskey gets a lot of grief, but he's made a convert of me - at least on his views about Nice White Ladies.

    Now, if he'd give up the I-See-Nothing attitude about Jewish influence in all of this, he'd be hitting on all cylinders.

    But back to white women, they're living on borrowed time. The brown horde will creep ever closer to their neighborhoods and children - assuming that they have children. The minute that white women's fantasy hurts their real world, they'll turn on a dime, which, in turn, will allow white guys to fight back. (Granted, it's sad that white guys need their permission, but dudes want chicks so if acting PC gets them chicks, they'll act PC.)

    It's getting harder and harder for whites to pretend the multi-culti works. In nicer areas of Northern Virginia, even liberal whites are starting the grumble. Ironically, it's not blacks or Hispanics causing the problem. It's the Chinese and Indians. They're moving into nicer white areas, and upper middle class whites are starting the feel the touch of diversity - and, you know what, they don't like it.

    Leftists love to say that while you might disagree with them, your children will be on their side. My gut tells me that there are a lot of white kids growing up in mixed neighborhoods and schools who are going to be on our side.

    Whites need only wake up to win. The blacks and browns aren't the real problem (yea, it'll be messy but we've done it before); we're our own problem, which means that we can fix it.
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  16. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    If White countries are wiped out, the whole world descends to Brown Misery.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool
    But if whites are the cerebrum and the browns are the brain stem, then the elimination of whites could be viewed as a sort of anesthesia. There may be unfathomable, widespread misery, but so its been since the first enervated organisms sensed their surroundings.

    What does trilobite history say of trilobite suffering? What do you know of it? How bad was it in the aggregate compared to the plight of the Jews in WWII?

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  17. “International Rescue Committee, Save the Children, Médecins Sans Frontières”

    The first two, both run by former politicians, have IIRC spent the last few months trying to involve the US and UK in a war with the Russians (‘no-fly zone NOW!”).

    MSF (and a few other NGOs) apparently has boats off the Libyan coast. The ‘bad traffickers’ take their illegal infiltrators a few miles off shore then the ‘good traffickers’ ship them all the way to Europe.

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  18. Hunsdon says:

    Mr. Derbyshire:

    Have you read much on Syria from the perspective of Col Pat Lang, of Sic Semper Tyrannis?

    http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/

    Respectfully,

    Hunsdon

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  19. gustafus says:

    Once the Snowflakes of Sweden begin to revolt in earnest – the rest of the west will get the wake up call. It is kill or be killed time – and few have the stomach for it.

    The planet cannot sustain 7 billion people. There must be a systemic die off, cull or genocide. AGAIN… we aren’t even having the conversation, so when the events overtake us – we aren’t prepared for the reality.

    I’ve said for years that the extreme left and extreme right will align against population numbers. Both sides are in agreement that a cull is necessary – but they disagree on which people need culling.

    The left wants all those pastie whites at Wal Mart included in the hol0caust – while the right wing has its sights on at all those low IQ breeders in the Southern Hemisphere.

    At least the USA is in a better position for when the shootin starts in earnest. Sweden and Germany are ripe for a revolt of their indigenous whites … giving us the necessary heads up and stats on exactly what needs to happen if we are to save the oceans, rivers, forests and wildlife.

    Carbon footprints don’t matter in this final battle for the planet. This is kill or be killed time.

    And we better man up for the political fight of our lives. It’s the future of every species at stake.

    And I vote Giraffes, Lions, Tigers and Whales. Econ 101 will prevail… the more you have of anything .. the less value is attached to same. Somalians or dolphins… you choose.

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  20. gustafus says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    This is essentially the argument that the poster "Whiskey" makes. Using Derb's lifeboat analogy, the women in the boat so despise their male co-passengers that they will take survivors from the water, as long as they are hyper-masculine, until the boat collapses. Whiskey gets a lot of abuse from other posters, but his arguments have always made sense to me. Female preference for hyper-masculine males is not the only explanation for the dilemma we face, but it is an important component of the overall problem mind-set.

    I am a woman … and I agree. But I am an alpha female… much much different than other women.

    I am not a lesbian, but I have always attracted beta rather than alpha males. That seems to be the biology of my circumstance. That said… I agree in full with the poster.

    Females will destroy the planet with their preferences. I offered to give up my vote years ago if women were barred from voting. Women are not biologically suited to vote their own self interest.

    They simply don’t have the cognitive skills.. or the emotional make up necessary when it’s kill or be killed time… and that time has arrived.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I am a woman … and I agree. But I am an alpha female… much much different than other women.
     
    ROFL. No, you're not. You're a very beta male poseur.
    , @Diversity Heretic
    In fairness to women, following Derb's lifeboat analogy, if the women in the lifeboats were obese, menopausal, or obese and menopausal, and the people in the water were 18-23 year old Chinese women, I don't have many illusions about what the men in the lifeboat would do.

    Suggesting that women's franchise be restricted is so far outside the Overton Window that even to suggest it elicits reactions of "you're obviously demented or joking."
    , @Anonymous
    yo

    Hillary

    wazzup?

    hey -- did you hire the guy who assassinated the Russian ambassador in a scheme to upset the electoral college vote? how much did you have to pay his family? does CIA dope these guys to get them to off themselves?
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  21. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Kyle McKenna
    Europeans and Americans are pretty much in denial about the numbers involved. Even if we get wise, it may not be soon enough. And it doesn't help that our societies are afflicted with self-styled do-gooders, SJW types who are hell-bent on wrecking every single thing that was once good about western civilization.

    Leading the way, of course, are our MSM and their owners, with their 24/7/365 onslaught of propaganda, masquerading as entertainment and information. They are the only enemies of our civilization we really need to be worried about.

    Leading the way, of course, are our MSM and their owners, with their 24/7/365 onslaught of propaganda, masquerading as entertainment and information. They are the only enemies of our civilization we really need to be worried about.

    I am inclined to see the MSM as the weapon of our enemies, not so much as “enemies” themselves.

    What would be a productive approach to the process of eliminating “journalism” as a weapon, while leaving it intact as an information service?

    Read More
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  22. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @gustafus
    I am a woman ... and I agree. But I am an alpha female... much much different than other women.

    I am not a lesbian, but I have always attracted beta rather than alpha males. That seems to be the biology of my circumstance. That said... I agree in full with the poster.

    Females will destroy the planet with their preferences. I offered to give up my vote years ago if women were barred from voting. Women are not biologically suited to vote their own self interest.

    They simply don't have the cognitive skills.. or the emotional make up necessary when it's kill or be killed time... and that time has arrived.

    I am a woman … and I agree. But I am an alpha female… much much different than other women.

    ROFL. No, you’re not. You’re a very beta male poseur.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gustafus
    Laughing? that I am a woman? or a poseur? I am 69 years old. I have 3 children and an ex husband... do I have to describe labor pains? my former period?

    I just proved I am, and have always been an alpha female...men think i'm a man when I write.

    As it happens I used to own a small newspaper in a ski town.... you gotta have brass ones somewhere to take on the Ski Companies and the mines in these places... I did and they auctioned off my boots years later in a fund raiser for the radio station. !!

    Mrs. Gustafus
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  23. @gustafus
    I am a woman ... and I agree. But I am an alpha female... much much different than other women.

    I am not a lesbian, but I have always attracted beta rather than alpha males. That seems to be the biology of my circumstance. That said... I agree in full with the poster.

    Females will destroy the planet with their preferences. I offered to give up my vote years ago if women were barred from voting. Women are not biologically suited to vote their own self interest.

    They simply don't have the cognitive skills.. or the emotional make up necessary when it's kill or be killed time... and that time has arrived.

    In fairness to women, following Derb’s lifeboat analogy, if the women in the lifeboats were obese, menopausal, or obese and menopausal, and the people in the water were 18-23 year old Chinese women, I don’t have many illusions about what the men in the lifeboat would do.

    Suggesting that women’s franchise be restricted is so far outside the Overton Window that even to suggest it elicits reactions of “you’re obviously demented or joking.”

    Read More
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  24. 5371 says:
    @Bill Jones
    "if the civil war ends with Assad and Putin the victors, that’s bad because they are both deeply unpleasant people who regard constitutional government and the rule of law with scorn"

    What utter bollocks from a poc neocon.

    Con. gov. and r. of l. are just superstitions at this stage, but it’s hard for someone to say goodbye to superstitions that he has had all his life.

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  25. 5371 says:

    [They didn’t ask to be born there, any more than I asked to be born in the West.]

    Neither does a dog ask to be born a dog, but there he is, and happy if he finds a good master, part of whose care for him will be to control his reproduction humanely.

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  26. We’re at the edge of having this conversation NOW.

    Wait. It will soon be the DOMINANT view.

    NJ’s public pension system is trying to get permission to sell itself debt (on the belief that somehow it will remain solvent.) Dallas’ public employee pension system suspended distributions when it suffered what for all practical purposes was a “bank run.” These are but two early examples of what’s coming.

    Westerners’ heads remain FULL of visions of cherry plums dancing (future cash flows from pensions, welfare-state benefits, free medical care, etc., etc., etc.) but it’s all an illusion. Everything is already PAWNED.

    Wait. When it all eventually crashes (and rising interest rates are THE sword swinging for this illusion’s neck), all these Do-Gooder, Goodwhite leftists will switch gears in a New York Minute.

    Within a decade there will be broad nation-state political programs to “repatriate” recent immigrants by any means necessary, and the soccer moms of the world will be cheering it.

    Metaphorically we’re in a jet plane in a vertical ascent. 21 years ago we should have realized it was time to turn back and land while fuel remained. Now, we’re so high that return is impossible, yet because the engines still burn, all we see is “On! On!” from our fellowmen.

    When the engines finally are quieted, the return to Earth will be neither pleasant nor free of blood & corpses.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    I will admit, you and your "doom and gloom" scenarios are neatly written. But "do-gooders" and "good whites" will decidedly NOT be on board with tyrannical efforts to remove en masse and by force millions of "bad whites" or "non whites". The elites have emergency plans in tow, and golden parachutes to boot.

    Regardless, if this Civil War does erupt by 2033, I say fine and dandy. Let the banksters and lawyers get hung from the highest trees by that defender of liberty known as the Alt-Right.

    I'm sure your alleged high IQ children and grandchildren will be front and center of this impending battle royale for supremacy.
    , @Talha
    Hey dc.sunsets,

    Everything is already PAWNED.
     
    That is 'the suck'...that is also 'the true'. How many generations forward will we have to pay off this debt with?

    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies...The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

    https://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation

    Peace.
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  27. @Diversity Heretic
    This is essentially the argument that the poster "Whiskey" makes. Using Derb's lifeboat analogy, the women in the boat so despise their male co-passengers that they will take survivors from the water, as long as they are hyper-masculine, until the boat collapses. Whiskey gets a lot of abuse from other posters, but his arguments have always made sense to me. Female preference for hyper-masculine males is not the only explanation for the dilemma we face, but it is an important component of the overall problem mind-set.

    Yea, Whiskey gets a lot of grief, but he’s made a convert of me – at least on his views about Nice White Ladies.

    Now, if he’d give up the I-See-Nothing attitude about Jewish influence in all of this, he’d be hitting on all cylinders.

    But back to white women, they’re living on borrowed time. The brown horde will creep ever closer to their neighborhoods and children – assuming that they have children. The minute that white women’s fantasy hurts their real world, they’ll turn on a dime, which, in turn, will allow white guys to fight back. (Granted, it’s sad that white guys need their permission, but dudes want chicks so if acting PC gets them chicks, they’ll act PC.)

    It’s getting harder and harder for whites to pretend the multi-culti works. In nicer areas of Northern Virginia, even liberal whites are starting the grumble. Ironically, it’s not blacks or Hispanics causing the problem. It’s the Chinese and Indians. They’re moving into nicer white areas, and upper middle class whites are starting the feel the touch of diversity – and, you know what, they don’t like it.

    Leftists love to say that while you might disagree with them, your children will be on their side. My gut tells me that there are a lot of white kids growing up in mixed neighborhoods and schools who are going to be on our side.

    Whites need only wake up to win. The blacks and browns aren’t the real problem (yea, it’ll be messy but we’ve done it before); we’re our own problem, which means that we can fix it.

    Read More
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  28. Corvinus says:
    @Kyle McKenna
    Europeans and Americans are pretty much in denial about the numbers involved. Even if we get wise, it may not be soon enough. And it doesn't help that our societies are afflicted with self-styled do-gooders, SJW types who are hell-bent on wrecking every single thing that was once good about western civilization.

    Leading the way, of course, are our MSM and their owners, with their 24/7/365 onslaught of propaganda, masquerading as entertainment and information. They are the only enemies of our civilization we really need to be worried about.

    “And it doesn’t help that our societies are afflicted with self-styled do-gooders, SJW types who are hell-bent on wrecking every single thing that was once good about western civilization.”

    So, you mean “bad whites”, right?

    Listen, white Americans in general don’t think of their society in terms of “western civilization”. They view it as the American civilization.

    Now, Johnny…

    “There has been no civilization down there in the Sahel, other than what European colonizers brought in. It’s not smug or spiteful to point that out, it’s just factual.”

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts. It might have been as sophisticated as Europeans, but Africans had centralized government, job specialization, organized religion, and arts/architecture.

    “I suggested that these “Arctic” nations should stop bickering among themselves and join forces in self-preservation against the ballooning low-average-IQ populations of the temperate and tropical zones.”

    White people are preserving themselves in their own ways. Perhaps you are not a fan of their strategies. Maybe you should run for political office and tout your plans to the masses.

    “Steve Sailer, in his commentary on the New York Times report, implies that we need to get Africans using birth control.”

    Why? Is it not up to the person individually to decide whether or not to produce offspring? How do you propose forcing Africans to stop having children, considering that a number of their long-standing problems were the direct result of the Invade The World, Invite The World crowd known as white Europeans?

    “At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity.”

    Replace “Western Civilization” with “human civilizations” and you are on to something.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Corvinus,

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts.
     
    Agreed - you would think somebody would have heard of Timbuktu or the University of Sankore before making a statement like "There has been no civilization down there..."

    "Since the 12th century, accompanying the camel caravans rode the intrepid scholars of Islamic learning, bringing with them over time hundreds of thousands of manuscripts. These bound texts highlighted the great teachings of Islam during the Middle Ages. These sacred manuscripts covered an array of subjects: astronomy, medicine, mathematics, chemistry, judicial law, government, and Islamic conflict resolution. Islamic study during this period of human history, when the intellectual evolution had stalled in the rest of Europe was growing, evolving, and breaking new ground in the fields of science, mathematics, astronomy, law, and philosophy within the Muslim world."
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0522_030527_timbuktu.html

    You can't hide that stuff, there are thousands of dated manuscripts:
    http://www.tombouctoumanuscripts.org/about/history/
    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/mali/mali-exhibit.html

    One can say it was a different form of civilization - one that didn't build enormous structures or something - but being utterly dismissive is foolish.

    Peace.

    , @dc.sunsets

    Why? Is it not up to the person individually to decide whether or not to produce offspring?
     
    Don't reproduce if you can't feed the kids.

    Don't expect me (or my kin) to feed them.

    But Corvinus doesn't "do" consequences, do you?

    I think Garrett Hardin did have a slightly better handle on this than do you. "We Are The World" was soooooo 1999.
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  29. Corvinus says:
    @pyrrhus

    Like Steve, I’m a gentle soul who wishes no harm to anyone. I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel, in their poverty and hopelessness. They didn’t ask to be born there, any more than I asked to be born in the West. I got lucky and they didn’t. It’s a shame. It’s not fair. I entirely agree.

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity.
     
    Derb, did someone actually tell you that life is fair, whatever that means? Our ancestors built the West and Western civilization. The people of the Sahel, for whatever reason, didn't build anything except villages and massive overpopulation, because of their very low IQs and tribal societies. Not my problem, or my kids' problem. Mother Nature and Reverend Malthus will solve everything in time, but unless the West wants to be part of that gruesome process, it had better keep 3d worlders out. If we have too many "gentle souls"--i.e. people who want to virtue signal and pearl clutch, the West will be obliterated. And that will not be gentle....

    “Our ancestors built the West and Western civilization.”

    In large part on the backs of and at the expense of other civilizations.

    “The people of the Sahel, for whatever reason, didn’t build anything except villages and massive overpopulation, because of their very low IQs and tribal societies.”

    Yet, white Europeans found their resources to be ever so enticing.

    “Not my problem, or my kids’ problem. Mother Nature and Reverend Malthus will solve everything in time, but unless the West wants to be part of that gruesome process…”

    Why do you and others here have this perverted obsession with the West, which most whites have little or no ties to?

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    • Replies: @El Dato

    Yet, white Europeans found their resources to be ever so enticing.
     
    So fed up with the guilt delivery service and the "but ... muh exploitation" argument stopper.

    Ok. So, there was serious exploitation and genocide.

    SO WHAT?

    What's that? More payments and reparations and lawsuits? After the Holocaust industry, the Africoast industry?

    No. Sod that.

    Any further enquiries can be addressed to the King of Belgium

    Now excuse me while I ring a descendent of Attila.
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  30. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @gustafus
    I am a woman ... and I agree. But I am an alpha female... much much different than other women.

    I am not a lesbian, but I have always attracted beta rather than alpha males. That seems to be the biology of my circumstance. That said... I agree in full with the poster.

    Females will destroy the planet with their preferences. I offered to give up my vote years ago if women were barred from voting. Women are not biologically suited to vote their own self interest.

    They simply don't have the cognitive skills.. or the emotional make up necessary when it's kill or be killed time... and that time has arrived.

    yo

    Hillary

    wazzup?

    hey — did you hire the guy who assassinated the Russian ambassador in a scheme to upset the electoral college vote? how much did you have to pay his family? does CIA dope these guys to get them to off themselves?

    Read More
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  31. Corvinus says:
    @dc.sunsets
    We're at the edge of having this conversation NOW.

    Wait. It will soon be the DOMINANT view.

    NJ's public pension system is trying to get permission to sell itself debt (on the belief that somehow it will remain solvent.) Dallas' public employee pension system suspended distributions when it suffered what for all practical purposes was a "bank run." These are but two early examples of what's coming.

    Westerners' heads remain FULL of visions of cherry plums dancing (future cash flows from pensions, welfare-state benefits, free medical care, etc., etc., etc.) but it's all an illusion. Everything is already PAWNED.

    Wait. When it all eventually crashes (and rising interest rates are THE sword swinging for this illusion's neck), all these Do-Gooder, Goodwhite leftists will switch gears in a New York Minute.

    Within a decade there will be broad nation-state political programs to "repatriate" recent immigrants by any means necessary, and the soccer moms of the world will be cheering it.

    Metaphorically we're in a jet plane in a vertical ascent. 21 years ago we should have realized it was time to turn back and land while fuel remained. Now, we're so high that return is impossible, yet because the engines still burn, all we see is "On! On!" from our fellowmen.

    When the engines finally are quieted, the return to Earth will be neither pleasant nor free of blood & corpses.

    I will admit, you and your “doom and gloom” scenarios are neatly written. But “do-gooders” and “good whites” will decidedly NOT be on board with tyrannical efforts to remove en masse and by force millions of “bad whites” or “non whites”. The elites have emergency plans in tow, and golden parachutes to boot.

    Regardless, if this Civil War does erupt by 2033, I say fine and dandy. Let the banksters and lawyers get hung from the highest trees by that defender of liberty known as the Alt-Right.

    I’m sure your alleged high IQ children and grandchildren will be front and center of this impending battle royale for supremacy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets

    I will admit, you and your “doom and gloom” scenarios are neatly written. But “do-gooders” and “good whites” will decidedly NOT be on board with tyrannical efforts to remove en masse and by force millions of “bad whites” or “non whites”.
     
    You really don't grasp my point, do you? Have you ever watched fashions change?

    Or are you too young to notice major change?
    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Corvinus,

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who's had a some black friends.)

    Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it's silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don't care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent.

    So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality.

    But here's what your worldview is missing.

    1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter

    The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not.

    Don't take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it's why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods.

    2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy

    The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three.

    3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own.

    A friend of mine took a train through the old Yugoslavia before it broke up. On the train, he was talking with some soldiers. They were good friends. One was a Serb. One was a Bosnian. Another guy was a Croatian. (Apparently, the gov't did that alot, mixing the different groups to break down the old divisions.) My friend asked about them what they thought was going to happen to the country. They all said that it would break up and there would be civil war. My friend asked what they'd do. Would they kill people they know just because they weren't Serb or Bosnian.

    Basically, there reply was they didn't want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe.

    Now, I don't think that the U.S. would ever become anything like the break-up of Yugoslavia, but you'd be prudent to remember what those soldiers said - and, almost certainly, did. Your white neighbors and friends do like you. Just like those soldiers liked each other. But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe.
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  32. Talha says:
    @dc.sunsets
    We're at the edge of having this conversation NOW.

    Wait. It will soon be the DOMINANT view.

    NJ's public pension system is trying to get permission to sell itself debt (on the belief that somehow it will remain solvent.) Dallas' public employee pension system suspended distributions when it suffered what for all practical purposes was a "bank run." These are but two early examples of what's coming.

    Westerners' heads remain FULL of visions of cherry plums dancing (future cash flows from pensions, welfare-state benefits, free medical care, etc., etc., etc.) but it's all an illusion. Everything is already PAWNED.

    Wait. When it all eventually crashes (and rising interest rates are THE sword swinging for this illusion's neck), all these Do-Gooder, Goodwhite leftists will switch gears in a New York Minute.

    Within a decade there will be broad nation-state political programs to "repatriate" recent immigrants by any means necessary, and the soccer moms of the world will be cheering it.

    Metaphorically we're in a jet plane in a vertical ascent. 21 years ago we should have realized it was time to turn back and land while fuel remained. Now, we're so high that return is impossible, yet because the engines still burn, all we see is "On! On!" from our fellowmen.

    When the engines finally are quieted, the return to Earth will be neither pleasant nor free of blood & corpses.

    Hey dc.sunsets,

    Everything is already PAWNED.

    That is ‘the suck’…that is also ‘the true’. How many generations forward will we have to pay off this debt with?

    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies…The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”

    https://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets

    How many generations forward will we have to pay off this debt with?
     
    Debt-as-wealth won't be paid off. It will be repudiated (and the wealth it represents will go back into the ether from which it came.)

    Life will go on. For most. Bankruptcy will be painful for most. It's a cycle, just a big iteration this time.
    , @Sam Shama
    Hey Talha and dc.sunsets

    The controversy surrounding debt is an old one, mired in cant and therefore entangled in a misunderstanding of inter-temporal fluctuations of output.

    To be clear, this is not an advocacy for uncontrolled debt levels, but instead an attempt to arrive at a balanced understanding of the role of debt.

    One could, for instance, accept a level of debt [or credit] tied to a productive item, say the varying stock of microprocessors, total known crude deposits or any other tangible and easily measurable asset. If one accepts that such a scheme is desirable, is it not a small logical step to conclude, what is commonly called fiat, is little else than a level of credit/total money in circulation tied to the total stock of sovereign assets of the issuing nation?

    [It isn't expressly useful a measure when debt levels are ratioed to income or gdp, which is a flow variable. Still, people do it, mostly as a heuristic aid. ]

    Gold is not an asset in the sense a microprocessor is. Furthermore, it fatally fails in that it exacerbates both recessionary and inflationary episodes when the need calls for a counter-cyclical measure.

    So setting aside the gold standard and conceding for a moment that fiat debt is optimal in our best understanding, whether it is issued directly by the treasury or a central bank is a question which tackles the thorny problem of election-cycle politics influencing the actions of the treasury. Each party would be accusing the one in power of gearing the economy during election years! That much is guaranteed. In theory, an independent CB solves this issue and I daresay this is my contention as well.

    Now, whether debt needs to exist at all; whether we should have a totally debt free economy operating solely on savings is easily addressed: If current savings were the only source of financing [spurring on] enterprise, we'd end up with little doubt, in the days of the past when the sovereign monarch and nobility had all the savings, lent only under burdensome, strict terms to indentured labour [one might ask 'is it any different today'? to which I'd reply 'assuredly so']

    Extension of debt in the modern nation, therefore, is a means to facilitate enterprise of the talented citizenry and therefore smooth inter-temporal output. The question in my mind reduces therefore, to what is the optimal level of debt, not whether we should have it at all. Without it, we are merely yearning for the relatively impoverished, uninspired, but perhaps bucolic past :-)
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  33. Talha says:
    @Corvinus
    "And it doesn’t help that our societies are afflicted with self-styled do-gooders, SJW types who are hell-bent on wrecking every single thing that was once good about western civilization."

    So, you mean "bad whites", right?

    Listen, white Americans in general don't think of their society in terms of "western civilization". They view it as the American civilization.

    Now, Johnny...

    "There has been no civilization down there in the Sahel, other than what European colonizers brought in. It’s not smug or spiteful to point that out, it’s just factual."

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts. It might have been as sophisticated as Europeans, but Africans had centralized government, job specialization, organized religion, and arts/architecture.

    "I suggested that these “Arctic” nations should stop bickering among themselves and join forces in self-preservation against the ballooning low-average-IQ populations of the temperate and tropical zones."

    White people are preserving themselves in their own ways. Perhaps you are not a fan of their strategies. Maybe you should run for political office and tout your plans to the masses.

    "Steve Sailer, in his commentary on the New York Times report, implies that we need to get Africans using birth control."

    Why? Is it not up to the person individually to decide whether or not to produce offspring? How do you propose forcing Africans to stop having children, considering that a number of their long-standing problems were the direct result of the Invade The World, Invite The World crowd known as white Europeans?

    "At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity."

    Replace "Western Civilization" with "human civilizations" and you are on to something.

    Hey Corvinus,

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts.

    Agreed – you would think somebody would have heard of Timbuktu or the University of Sankore before making a statement like “There has been no civilization down there…”

    “Since the 12th century, accompanying the camel caravans rode the intrepid scholars of Islamic learning, bringing with them over time hundreds of thousands of manuscripts. These bound texts highlighted the great teachings of Islam during the Middle Ages. These sacred manuscripts covered an array of subjects: astronomy, medicine, mathematics, chemistry, judicial law, government, and Islamic conflict resolution. Islamic study during this period of human history, when the intellectual evolution had stalled in the rest of Europe was growing, evolving, and breaking new ground in the fields of science, mathematics, astronomy, law, and philosophy within the Muslim world.”

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0522_030527_timbuktu.html

    You can’t hide that stuff, there are thousands of dated manuscripts:

    http://www.tombouctoumanuscripts.org/about/history/

    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/mali/mali-exhibit.html

    One can say it was a different form of civilization – one that didn’t build enormous structures or something – but being utterly dismissive is foolish.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Knowing nothing whatsoever worth consideration about medieval Mali, I do not, naturally, offer to contest your statements about it.

    But surely this

    when the intellectual evolution had stalled in the rest of Europe

     

    in apparent reference to the springtime of the High Middle Ages, is absurd?
    , @Johnny
    Tell me.

    Did those Islamic scholars ever speak of how all of their knowledge was robbed from the natives of the nations conquered by Islam?

    Did they also ever talk about the purges of knowledge and scholars that contradicted the teachings of the Koran?
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  34. @Corvinus
    "And it doesn’t help that our societies are afflicted with self-styled do-gooders, SJW types who are hell-bent on wrecking every single thing that was once good about western civilization."

    So, you mean "bad whites", right?

    Listen, white Americans in general don't think of their society in terms of "western civilization". They view it as the American civilization.

    Now, Johnny...

    "There has been no civilization down there in the Sahel, other than what European colonizers brought in. It’s not smug or spiteful to point that out, it’s just factual."

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts. It might have been as sophisticated as Europeans, but Africans had centralized government, job specialization, organized religion, and arts/architecture.

    "I suggested that these “Arctic” nations should stop bickering among themselves and join forces in self-preservation against the ballooning low-average-IQ populations of the temperate and tropical zones."

    White people are preserving themselves in their own ways. Perhaps you are not a fan of their strategies. Maybe you should run for political office and tout your plans to the masses.

    "Steve Sailer, in his commentary on the New York Times report, implies that we need to get Africans using birth control."

    Why? Is it not up to the person individually to decide whether or not to produce offspring? How do you propose forcing Africans to stop having children, considering that a number of their long-standing problems were the direct result of the Invade The World, Invite The World crowd known as white Europeans?

    "At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity."

    Replace "Western Civilization" with "human civilizations" and you are on to something.

    Why? Is it not up to the person individually to decide whether or not to produce offspring?

    Don’t reproduce if you can’t feed the kids.

    Don’t expect me (or my kin) to feed them.

    But Corvinus doesn’t “do” consequences, do you?

    I think Garrett Hardin did have a slightly better handle on this than do you. “We Are The World” was soooooo 1999.

    Read More
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  35. @Talha
    Hey dc.sunsets,

    Everything is already PAWNED.
     
    That is 'the suck'...that is also 'the true'. How many generations forward will we have to pay off this debt with?

    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies...The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

    https://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation

    Peace.

    How many generations forward will we have to pay off this debt with?

    Debt-as-wealth won’t be paid off. It will be repudiated (and the wealth it represents will go back into the ether from which it came.)

    Life will go on. For most. Bankruptcy will be painful for most. It’s a cycle, just a big iteration this time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Debt-as-wealth won’t be paid off. It will be repudiated (and the wealth it represents will go back into the ether from which it came.)
     
    Exactly. And the moral, as has always been the moral ... "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."

    Life will go on
     
    Basically, all economic activity based in fiat currency is a bubble function, and will behave, in relative magnitude, much like the tulip bubble and crash of 1637.

    Only material goods and services have real value. The entire banking system can collapse, and no one will die except a few well-deserving cads, and a handful of relatively innocent bystanders. Life will go on. However, material goods and services are not infinite, making population stresses the only true problem.
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  36. @Corvinus
    I will admit, you and your "doom and gloom" scenarios are neatly written. But "do-gooders" and "good whites" will decidedly NOT be on board with tyrannical efforts to remove en masse and by force millions of "bad whites" or "non whites". The elites have emergency plans in tow, and golden parachutes to boot.

    Regardless, if this Civil War does erupt by 2033, I say fine and dandy. Let the banksters and lawyers get hung from the highest trees by that defender of liberty known as the Alt-Right.

    I'm sure your alleged high IQ children and grandchildren will be front and center of this impending battle royale for supremacy.

    I will admit, you and your “doom and gloom” scenarios are neatly written. But “do-gooders” and “good whites” will decidedly NOT be on board with tyrannical efforts to remove en masse and by force millions of “bad whites” or “non whites”.

    You really don’t grasp my point, do you? Have you ever watched fashions change?

    Or are you too young to notice major change?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "You really don’t grasp my point, do you? Have you ever watched fashions change?"

    I get your point. How can I not when you bludgeon me over the head with it repeatedly--Elitists look out for themselves. Common people royally screwed.
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  37. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Talha
    Hey Corvinus,

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts.
     
    Agreed - you would think somebody would have heard of Timbuktu or the University of Sankore before making a statement like "There has been no civilization down there..."

    "Since the 12th century, accompanying the camel caravans rode the intrepid scholars of Islamic learning, bringing with them over time hundreds of thousands of manuscripts. These bound texts highlighted the great teachings of Islam during the Middle Ages. These sacred manuscripts covered an array of subjects: astronomy, medicine, mathematics, chemistry, judicial law, government, and Islamic conflict resolution. Islamic study during this period of human history, when the intellectual evolution had stalled in the rest of Europe was growing, evolving, and breaking new ground in the fields of science, mathematics, astronomy, law, and philosophy within the Muslim world."
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0522_030527_timbuktu.html

    You can't hide that stuff, there are thousands of dated manuscripts:
    http://www.tombouctoumanuscripts.org/about/history/
    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/mali/mali-exhibit.html

    One can say it was a different form of civilization - one that didn't build enormous structures or something - but being utterly dismissive is foolish.

    Peace.

    Knowing nothing whatsoever worth consideration about medieval Mali, I do not, naturally, offer to contest your statements about it.

    But surely this

    when the intellectual evolution had stalled in the rest of Europe

    in apparent reference to the springtime of the High Middle Ages, is absurd?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    I also found that particular part to be a bit hyperbolic since certain parts of Europe were also establishing parallel universities, but it's not my quote. The rest of it is sound - as documented by the travels of the great Ibn Battuta (ra). That whole area imported scholars from other parts of the Muslim world; Egypt, Morocco, even Spain. The leaders of those kingdoms were intelligent enough to know what the rest of the Muslim world had to offer when they traveled through major metropolitan areas while making the Hajj pilgrimage (Mansa Musa [ra] being a prime example). The initial seed for the knowledge was foreign (which is why the literature was either in Arabic or Arabic script [like Wolofal]), after a while it was indigenous.

    If you have 10 minutes:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnU0v6hcUo

    Peace.

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  38. Talha says:
    @Anon
    Knowing nothing whatsoever worth consideration about medieval Mali, I do not, naturally, offer to contest your statements about it.

    But surely this

    when the intellectual evolution had stalled in the rest of Europe

     

    in apparent reference to the springtime of the High Middle Ages, is absurd?

    I also found that particular part to be a bit hyperbolic since certain parts of Europe were also establishing parallel universities, but it’s not my quote. The rest of it is sound – as documented by the travels of the great Ibn Battuta (ra). That whole area imported scholars from other parts of the Muslim world; Egypt, Morocco, even Spain. The leaders of those kingdoms were intelligent enough to know what the rest of the Muslim world had to offer when they traveled through major metropolitan areas while making the Hajj pilgrimage (Mansa Musa [ra] being a prime example). The initial seed for the knowledge was foreign (which is why the literature was either in Arabic or Arabic script [like Wolofal]), after a while it was indigenous.

    If you have 10 minutes:

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    Medieval African civilizations were built upon castrated black eunuchs. Would you care to resurrect that custom?
    , @Anon
    Thanks. Yes, I was aware of Mansa Musa, and of the fact that you were quoting Nat-Geo (I followed the link- it's an interesting read) and I intend to read ibn Battuta at some point (I read his account of India long ago in another connection, and found it very much worth reading).

    I was mainly protesting the bizarre tendency of writers, and indeed the mainstream culture aside from medievalists and a few others, to belittle the entire thousand-year span from the fall of Rome to the fall of Constantinople as an era in which little happened worth noting in Europe. Though you may disagree, I also object to the exaltation of the (considerable) achievements of the Muslim world of the time at the expense of Europe; another common tic of the literati.
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  39. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @dc.sunsets

    How many generations forward will we have to pay off this debt with?
     
    Debt-as-wealth won't be paid off. It will be repudiated (and the wealth it represents will go back into the ether from which it came.)

    Life will go on. For most. Bankruptcy will be painful for most. It's a cycle, just a big iteration this time.

    Debt-as-wealth won’t be paid off. It will be repudiated (and the wealth it represents will go back into the ether from which it came.)

    Exactly. And the moral, as has always been the moral … “Neither a borrower nor a lender be.”

    Life will go on

    Basically, all economic activity based in fiat currency is a bubble function, and will behave, in relative magnitude, much like the tulip bubble and crash of 1637.

    Only material goods and services have real value. The entire banking system can collapse, and no one will die except a few well-deserving cads, and a handful of relatively innocent bystanders. Life will go on. However, material goods and services are not infinite, making population stresses the only true problem.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets
    True, but I worry about the credit-bubble warping of the capital structure of production.

    Waste is a common problem, but when two generations of people have committed their lives to its creation, what happens when they lose exchange value for the "shiny beads" they make (and they have no other skills?)
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  40. @anony-mouse
    Look at the bright side.

    Blacks coming North? Great! Give them Lapland, maybe all of Scandinavia-Siberia too. Do 'Nordics' really like the cold that much? Do White Americans vacation in Florida or Montana? Doesn't everyone in Margaritaville need sunscreen?

    Any space in the Sun opening up is okay by me.

    Pancreatic cancer metastasizing to the brain doesn’t make the pancreas all better.

    Read More
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  41. Johnny says:
    @anony-mouse
    Look at the bright side.

    Blacks coming North? Great! Give them Lapland, maybe all of Scandinavia-Siberia too. Do 'Nordics' really like the cold that much? Do White Americans vacation in Florida or Montana? Doesn't everyone in Margaritaville need sunscreen?

    Any space in the Sun opening up is okay by me.

    Keep the unwashed filth out of my homeland yankee, I like this cold land very much and don’t want to see it sacrificed on the US alter of rampant globalism.

    Read More
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  42. Johnny says:
    @Talha
    Hey Corvinus,

    Of course there was a civilization there despite your repeated Fake News Story efforts.
     
    Agreed - you would think somebody would have heard of Timbuktu or the University of Sankore before making a statement like "There has been no civilization down there..."

    "Since the 12th century, accompanying the camel caravans rode the intrepid scholars of Islamic learning, bringing with them over time hundreds of thousands of manuscripts. These bound texts highlighted the great teachings of Islam during the Middle Ages. These sacred manuscripts covered an array of subjects: astronomy, medicine, mathematics, chemistry, judicial law, government, and Islamic conflict resolution. Islamic study during this period of human history, when the intellectual evolution had stalled in the rest of Europe was growing, evolving, and breaking new ground in the fields of science, mathematics, astronomy, law, and philosophy within the Muslim world."
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0522_030527_timbuktu.html

    You can't hide that stuff, there are thousands of dated manuscripts:
    http://www.tombouctoumanuscripts.org/about/history/
    https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/mali/mali-exhibit.html

    One can say it was a different form of civilization - one that didn't build enormous structures or something - but being utterly dismissive is foolish.

    Peace.

    Tell me.

    Did those Islamic scholars ever speak of how all of their knowledge was robbed from the natives of the nations conquered by Islam?

    Did they also ever talk about the purges of knowledge and scholars that contradicted the teachings of the Koran?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Johnny,

    You mean 'absorbed'? The initial Muslim conquerors were simple (though extremely pious and steadfast) Arabs that inherited the treasures and marvels of Byzantium and Persia - they didn't bring with them science or architecture or such things - they brought them unadulterated transcendent monotheism and an idea that all men were brothers. The Muslims hired out non-Muslim conquered people to keep things running because they couldn't do it themselves. Over time, as Islam spread through the population you started seeing the phenomenon of Muslim Arab and Persian polymaths. These were the people that took what the civilizations before them had accomplished and built on top of it. Men like Biruni (ra), Ibn-al Haytham (ra), Ibn Rushd (ra) and others were obviously indebted to works of the Egyptians, Greeks or Hindus - is there a difference of opinion on this? Conquerors absorb the intellectual capital of those they conquer - it is a right claimed through blood, fire and steel on the battlefield - it has always been this way - SJW opinions to the contrary.


    Did they also ever talk about the purges of knowledge and scholars that contradicted the teachings of the Koran?
     
    Proof? Islam was historically far more accommodating to its heretical or heterodox opinions; men like Farabi, Kindi, Ibn Sina, Abu Nuwas and others were quite prolific in their output and it was circulated widely - and simply put down by the writings and speeches of men like Imams Razi (ra), Ghazali (ra), Baqillani (ra). Please bring evidence that these men with heterodox opinions were running around scared to be burnt at the stake. Anomalous incidents like the Almohad take over of Spain or some of the edicts of insane Fatimid caliphs notwithstanding - everyone has their crazies.

    Peace.

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  43. @Talha
    I also found that particular part to be a bit hyperbolic since certain parts of Europe were also establishing parallel universities, but it's not my quote. The rest of it is sound - as documented by the travels of the great Ibn Battuta (ra). That whole area imported scholars from other parts of the Muslim world; Egypt, Morocco, even Spain. The leaders of those kingdoms were intelligent enough to know what the rest of the Muslim world had to offer when they traveled through major metropolitan areas while making the Hajj pilgrimage (Mansa Musa [ra] being a prime example). The initial seed for the knowledge was foreign (which is why the literature was either in Arabic or Arabic script [like Wolofal]), after a while it was indigenous.

    If you have 10 minutes:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnU0v6hcUo

    Peace.

    Medieval African civilizations were built upon castrated black eunuchs. Would you care to resurrect that custom?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey epochehusserl,

    Again, this is hyperbolic. But there is truth in this; there was a significant trade in Black eunuchs in that area.

    There is also truth in this; if you were a potential eunuch, the best thing that could happen to you was that Islam would take over the territory that you lived in. Since it prohibited the 'manufacture' of eunuchs within its realms, the 'factories' where they were being made would be pushed out into the fringes or beyond its borders:
    “The demand for slaves, including talented and literate non-Muslim eunuchs, was enormous across the Islamic world at the time of the early Abbasid caliphate (mid-eighth to the late tenth century). Judging by the actions described in al-Muqaddasi’s geography, the captives did not even need to be literate in Arabic in order to be useful. This demand generated a ripple effect that spread throughout Abbasid territories, throughout the Mediterranean basin and also into eastern and western Europe. Scholars are just starting to acknowledge the large-scale influence of this long-distance slave trade on the start of the Viking Age in northwestern Europe, the same eighth through eleventh centuries. Indeed, some still deny the importance of the economics of the slave trade when it comes to Viking raiding activities. But women were often targeted during Viking raids, as potential mothers and wives in Iceland and Scandinavia, or as high-value trade objects to be exchanged as far away as Byzantium and the Abbasid Empire.”
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/castration-and-culture-in-the-middle-ages/castrating-monks-vikings-the-slave-trade-and-the-value-of-eunuchs/028A4E81E02ABBF3BEA7EB66ADAF426C

    "Mutilation was forbidden by Muslim law, and a specific ban on castration was invested with the authority of the Prophet by a hadith: 'Whoever cuts off the nose of a slave, his nose will be cut off; and whoever castrates a slave, him also shall we castrate.'...The letter, if not spirit, of the law was long observed by leaving to those beyond the territorial limits of Islam the act of castration and then importing the product. In the Middle Ages, Prague and Verdun became castration centers for the supply of European eunuchs; Kharazon, near the Caspian Sea, a center for the supply of central Asian ones. Further circumventions, on Islamic territory, were pursued on the basis that the operations were conducted by non-Muslims. In the tenth-century Islamic Spain, Jewish merchants reportedly performed the operation. In the nineteenth century, Christian monks ran a castration center at their monastery of Deir al-Jandala near Abu Tig, a small town in Upper Egypt."
    Islam's Black Slaves: The Other Black Diaspora

    Like Byzantine Christians, Muslims could definitely be found guilty of making demands for eunuchs, a charge that even Muslim scholars found troubling. However, unlike Byzantium, they are free of the charge of being the ones doing the cutting:
    "This 'making,' the act of castration, was and is forbidden under Islamic law. Slave traders, at least in theory, castrated young boys on the borders of the Islamic realm before importing them. This legal fiction, however was still troubling to some pious scholars. Al-Subki ends his chapter with the statement that one can find in the books of the Hanafi legal school that its founder, Abu Hanifa, declared the taking of eunuchs into one's service reprehensible (yukrah), not forbidden (yuhram), because making use of eunuchs was 'an abetment of castration, which is [a] prohibited [act]."
    Eunuchs and Sacred Boundaries in Islamic Society

    Would you care to resurrect that custom?
     
    No, it is an abomination - would you?

    Peace.
    , @5371
    [castrated black eunuchs]

    Better than the alternative.
    , @gustafus
    In a New York Minute.... testosterone is a plague when the IQ is below room temperature. And a damned nuisance to everything and everybody when above.
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  44. Hulegu says:

    The UN recently passed a resolution against “killer robots” which I found a bit quixotic at the time. But it occurs to me this is preempting the solution to the problem only Derbyshire is naming. How does the outnumbered West defeat the zombie apocalypse to come? Maybe the answer to the Lifeboat problem is to farm out the task to soulless machines.

    Read More
    • Replies: @another fred

    Maybe the answer to the Lifeboat problem is to farm out the task to soulless machines.
     
    Biological weapons: diseases arrayed against crops, animals, and men. These will be the most efficient (therefore the most likely) under the crowded circumstances of a planet with 10 billion (mostly urban) inhabitants, especially after global trade breaks down.

    A system under stress reacts in a direction to relieve the stress - Le Chatelier

    Probably the most important aspect of our current "system" is that it is urban and interconnected. Very few people are involved in producing essential goods, many are not productive at all, and almost all depend on the "system" functioning to gain their daily bread.

    Before the system can completely break down there is one more powerful card in the deck. When the financial bubble first breaks the only open route to maintain the system (and avoid chaos) will be to turn over the reins to a government with authority to keep the wheels turning by fiat. The laws to do this in the USA are already on the books. The emergency powers of the executive branch are almost without limit, waiting only for the emergency.

    BUT, for most of the last century the primary tactic of government has been to buy agreement between conflicting interests (peace, or the absence of conflict) by using borrowed money to give all parties enough to keep them mollified, if not satisfied. After the credit bubble breaks the government will have to start assigning losses and picking winners, which will mean increasing conflict.

    Only Nature will stand against it, but that will be enough.

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  45. Talha says:
    @epochehusserl
    Medieval African civilizations were built upon castrated black eunuchs. Would you care to resurrect that custom?

    Hey epochehusserl,

    Again, this is hyperbolic. But there is truth in this; there was a significant trade in Black eunuchs in that area.

    There is also truth in this; if you were a potential eunuch, the best thing that could happen to you was that Islam would take over the territory that you lived in. Since it prohibited the ‘manufacture’ of eunuchs within its realms, the ‘factories’ where they were being made would be pushed out into the fringes or beyond its borders:
    “The demand for slaves, including talented and literate non-Muslim eunuchs, was enormous across the Islamic world at the time of the early Abbasid caliphate (mid-eighth to the late tenth century). Judging by the actions described in al-Muqaddasi’s geography, the captives did not even need to be literate in Arabic in order to be useful. This demand generated a ripple effect that spread throughout Abbasid territories, throughout the Mediterranean basin and also into eastern and western Europe. Scholars are just starting to acknowledge the large-scale influence of this long-distance slave trade on the start of the Viking Age in northwestern Europe, the same eighth through eleventh centuries. Indeed, some still deny the importance of the economics of the slave trade when it comes to Viking raiding activities. But women were often targeted during Viking raids, as potential mothers and wives in Iceland and Scandinavia, or as high-value trade objects to be exchanged as far away as Byzantium and the Abbasid Empire.”

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/castration-and-culture-in-the-middle-ages/castrating-monks-vikings-the-slave-trade-and-the-value-of-eunuchs/028A4E81E02ABBF3BEA7EB66ADAF426C

    “Mutilation was forbidden by Muslim law, and a specific ban on castration was invested with the authority of the Prophet by a hadith: ‘Whoever cuts off the nose of a slave, his nose will be cut off; and whoever castrates a slave, him also shall we castrate.’…The letter, if not spirit, of the law was long observed by leaving to those beyond the territorial limits of Islam the act of castration and then importing the product. In the Middle Ages, Prague and Verdun became castration centers for the supply of European eunuchs; Kharazon, near the Caspian Sea, a center for the supply of central Asian ones. Further circumventions, on Islamic territory, were pursued on the basis that the operations were conducted by non-Muslims. In the tenth-century Islamic Spain, Jewish merchants reportedly performed the operation. In the nineteenth century, Christian monks ran a castration center at their monastery of Deir al-Jandala near Abu Tig, a small town in Upper Egypt.”
    Islam’s Black Slaves: The Other Black Diaspora

    Like Byzantine Christians, Muslims could definitely be found guilty of making demands for eunuchs, a charge that even Muslim scholars found troubling. However, unlike Byzantium, they are free of the charge of being the ones doing the cutting:
    “This ‘making,’ the act of castration, was and is forbidden under Islamic law. Slave traders, at least in theory, castrated young boys on the borders of the Islamic realm before importing them. This legal fiction, however was still troubling to some pious scholars. Al-Subki ends his chapter with the statement that one can find in the books of the Hanafi legal school that its founder, Abu Hanifa, declared the taking of eunuchs into one’s service reprehensible (yukrah), not forbidden (yuhram), because making use of eunuchs was ‘an abetment of castration, which is [a] prohibited [act].”
    Eunuchs and Sacred Boundaries in Islamic Society

    Would you care to resurrect that custom?

    No, it is an abomination – would you?

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @epochehusserl
    I would not care to resurrect that custom but I would like to do away with white guilt seeing as though the idea that slavery is wrong originated with the whites.
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  46. @Anonymous

    Debt-as-wealth won’t be paid off. It will be repudiated (and the wealth it represents will go back into the ether from which it came.)
     
    Exactly. And the moral, as has always been the moral ... "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."

    Life will go on
     
    Basically, all economic activity based in fiat currency is a bubble function, and will behave, in relative magnitude, much like the tulip bubble and crash of 1637.

    Only material goods and services have real value. The entire banking system can collapse, and no one will die except a few well-deserving cads, and a handful of relatively innocent bystanders. Life will go on. However, material goods and services are not infinite, making population stresses the only true problem.

    True, but I worry about the credit-bubble warping of the capital structure of production.

    Waste is a common problem, but when two generations of people have committed their lives to its creation, what happens when they lose exchange value for the “shiny beads” they make (and they have no other skills?)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    True, but I worry about the credit-bubble warping of the capital structure of production.
     
    It does, but it does not warp the structure of production per se. Hence, the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed -- for the most part.

    Waste is a common problem, but when two generations of people have committed their lives to its creation, what happens when they lose exchange value for the “shiny beads” they make (and they have no other skills?)
     
    Briefly, sure. But so what? Who dies from lack of shiny beads?
    , @animalogic
    You are right to be worried: there is a MASSIVE disconnect between the "money supply" & the value of the goods & services of the productive economy. After QE & zirp especially we are in unchartered waters....& I'll be damned if I can see a happy ending....
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  47. Talha says:
    @Johnny
    Tell me.

    Did those Islamic scholars ever speak of how all of their knowledge was robbed from the natives of the nations conquered by Islam?

    Did they also ever talk about the purges of knowledge and scholars that contradicted the teachings of the Koran?

    Hey Johnny,

    You mean ‘absorbed’? The initial Muslim conquerors were simple (though extremely pious and steadfast) Arabs that inherited the treasures and marvels of Byzantium and Persia – they didn’t bring with them science or architecture or such things – they brought them unadulterated transcendent monotheism and an idea that all men were brothers. The Muslims hired out non-Muslim conquered people to keep things running because they couldn’t do it themselves. Over time, as Islam spread through the population you started seeing the phenomenon of Muslim Arab and Persian polymaths. These were the people that took what the civilizations before them had accomplished and built on top of it. Men like Biruni (ra), Ibn-al Haytham (ra), Ibn Rushd (ra) and others were obviously indebted to works of the Egyptians, Greeks or Hindus – is there a difference of opinion on this? Conquerors absorb the intellectual capital of those they conquer – it is a right claimed through blood, fire and steel on the battlefield – it has always been this way – SJW opinions to the contrary.

    Did they also ever talk about the purges of knowledge and scholars that contradicted the teachings of the Koran?

    Proof? Islam was historically far more accommodating to its heretical or heterodox opinions; men like Farabi, Kindi, Ibn Sina, Abu Nuwas and others were quite prolific in their output and it was circulated widely – and simply put down by the writings and speeches of men like Imams Razi (ra), Ghazali (ra), Baqillani (ra). Please bring evidence that these men with heterodox opinions were running around scared to be burnt at the stake. Anomalous incidents like the Almohad take over of Spain or some of the edicts of insane Fatimid caliphs notwithstanding – everyone has their crazies.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    So what happened?

    And why did the Christian West surge ahead?
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  48. Ivan K. says: • Website

    John Derbyshire:

    I’m a gentle soul ….. I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel …..

    Then why do you put up with the top image of this article?

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive …..

    Do you think Western Civilization endures in the top image’s words:
    “THIS ISN’T A RAFT BOAT. IT’S PART OF AN INVASION FLEET” ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    You betcha! A better title, though, would have been:
    NATURAL SELECTION
    , @RadicalCenter
    Yes. Western civilization survives only if we recognize those boats as an invasion in its scale, in its intent, and in its effect if not repulsed.

    Do you favor those "refugees" over my children in the struggle for scarce water, food, and land?
    I don't .

    Anyone who wishes to help those people prevail over my children in their struggle for survival, safety, and perhaps a modicum of prosperity and freedom, is an enemy.

    You sound like someone who has no children -- or is doing a terrible job protecting them and their future.
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  49. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Talha
    I also found that particular part to be a bit hyperbolic since certain parts of Europe were also establishing parallel universities, but it's not my quote. The rest of it is sound - as documented by the travels of the great Ibn Battuta (ra). That whole area imported scholars from other parts of the Muslim world; Egypt, Morocco, even Spain. The leaders of those kingdoms were intelligent enough to know what the rest of the Muslim world had to offer when they traveled through major metropolitan areas while making the Hajj pilgrimage (Mansa Musa [ra] being a prime example). The initial seed for the knowledge was foreign (which is why the literature was either in Arabic or Arabic script [like Wolofal]), after a while it was indigenous.

    If you have 10 minutes:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvnU0v6hcUo

    Peace.

    Thanks. Yes, I was aware of Mansa Musa, and of the fact that you were quoting Nat-Geo (I followed the link- it’s an interesting read) and I intend to read ibn Battuta at some point (I read his account of India long ago in another connection, and found it very much worth reading).

    I was mainly protesting the bizarre tendency of writers, and indeed the mainstream culture aside from medievalists and a few others, to belittle the entire thousand-year span from the fall of Rome to the fall of Constantinople as an era in which little happened worth noting in Europe. Though you may disagree, I also object to the exaltation of the (considerable) achievements of the Muslim world of the time at the expense of Europe; another common tic of the literati.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Ibn Battuta (ra) is good, Ibn Khaldun (ra) is excellent and Biruni (ra) knew India really, really well.

    I agree and I think it is this Cultural Marxism trying to completely rewrite European history to make it seem like that era was just full on ankle-deep crap-filled streets and mobs of filthy men looking for witches to rape and burn. I think that is foolish. Though, admittedly Europe is quite vast, and certain pockets were a bit like that.

    at the expense of Europe
     
    I'm no expert on European history, but I know a good amount of it where it intersects with Muslim history. I'm not sure I disagree with you necessarily; depends on what you mean by 'expense of'. Muslim scholars definitely cited the works of Europeans (and others) like Galen, Euclid, Ptolemy, Plato, etc. in their writings, whether they were building upon their works or refuting them. So the continuum of knowledge from the Hellenic, Vedic and others was certainly synthesized and due credit should be given.

    Peace.
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  50. 5371 says:
    @epochehusserl
    Medieval African civilizations were built upon castrated black eunuchs. Would you care to resurrect that custom?

    [castrated black eunuchs]

    Better than the alternative.

    Read More
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  51. 5371 says:
    @Ivan K.
    John Derbyshire:

    I’m a gentle soul ..... I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel .....
     
    Then why do you put up with the top image of this article?

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive .....
     
    Do you think Western Civilization endures in the top image's words:
    "THIS ISN'T A RAFT BOAT. IT'S PART OF AN INVASION FLEET" ?

    You betcha! A better title, though, would have been:
    NATURAL SELECTION

    Read More
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  52. Dr. X says:

    There’s a lot of questions there, but I don’t have any answers. When I think about these things, all I can come up with is Lifeboat Ethics.

    …Yes, that’s bleak, but who’s got anything else to say?

    I do.

    Who, actually—other than me—who is thinking about these issues?

    A lot of people, actually.

    …I’m a gentle soul who wishes no harm to anyone. I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel, in their poverty and hopelessness. They didn’t ask to be born there, any more than I asked to be born in the West. I got lucky and they didn’t. It’s a shame. It’s not fair. I entirely agree.

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity.

    Derb seems to think that the only alternative to the situation is “lifeboat ethics,” which will be necessary to preserve Western Civilization, which he wants to be preserved.

    I disagree, though. There’s another, very comprehensive alternative that he’s ignoring: global communism. Now, let me be clear that I’m not personally advocating this alternative — just pointing out that a lot of other people would advocate for it. We conservatives are often guilty of conflating communism with the Soviet Union, and when the USSR, collapsed, we assumed that communism died with it. It didn’t.

    The “open borders” crowd is, essentially, communist. After all, it was Marx who said that the working man has got no country — in other words, he was for open borders. As far as preserving Western Civilization, pretty much all of higher education and pop culture is against that. As these people migrate into politics, they’ll invariably choose global interests over national ones. Just look at Obama — the defining feature of his presidency is his hostility to Western traditions and his knee-jerk identification with all things of the Third World. Angela Merkel also comes to mind.

    So I would say that one needs to look at what one’s enemies think, to understand all possible alternatives. And our enemies do not think that lifeboat ethics is inevitable; rather, they are entirely comfortable with some form of global socialism, and they will be more than willing to enforce it against the Western traditions of property rights and individual rights. Think of the black and brown Third Worders as a global lumpenproletariat seizing the wealth and the means of production from bourgeois whites, and you’ll get an entirely different perspective.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Um, yes, and that perspective rightly encourages us to defend ourselves and our children's future from those hordes that have destroyed or made little of their own cultures and lands.

    People coming to take what we have, should be dealt with the same way THEY would deal with us coming to take whatever they have (or to irreversibly alter their culture and daily life for the worse).
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  53. @Corvinus
    I will admit, you and your "doom and gloom" scenarios are neatly written. But "do-gooders" and "good whites" will decidedly NOT be on board with tyrannical efforts to remove en masse and by force millions of "bad whites" or "non whites". The elites have emergency plans in tow, and golden parachutes to boot.

    Regardless, if this Civil War does erupt by 2033, I say fine and dandy. Let the banksters and lawyers get hung from the highest trees by that defender of liberty known as the Alt-Right.

    I'm sure your alleged high IQ children and grandchildren will be front and center of this impending battle royale for supremacy.

    Corvinus,

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who’s had a some black friends.)

    Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it’s silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don’t care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent.

    So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality.

    But here’s what your worldview is missing.

    1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter

    The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not.

    Don’t take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it’s why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods.

    2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy

    The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three.

    3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own.

    A friend of mine took a train through the old Yugoslavia before it broke up. On the train, he was talking with some soldiers. They were good friends. One was a Serb. One was a Bosnian. Another guy was a Croatian. (Apparently, the gov’t did that alot, mixing the different groups to break down the old divisions.) My friend asked about them what they thought was going to happen to the country. They all said that it would break up and there would be civil war. My friend asked what they’d do. Would they kill people they know just because they weren’t Serb or Bosnian.

    Basically, there reply was they didn’t want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe.

    Now, I don’t think that the U.S. would ever become anything like the break-up of Yugoslavia, but you’d be prudent to remember what those soldiers said – and, almost certainly, did. Your white neighbors and friends do like you. Just like those soldiers liked each other. But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life.
     
    Other possibility: Corvinus is a young white woman...or an older one who is childless.

    Either way, the exhibition of low levels of life experience or grasp of consequences is profound.

    I once asked an open-borders debate opponent what happens if the UN population estimates for Africa are fulfilled, and literally half a billion people must move to North America (and another half a billion to Europe) or they all starve/perish in incessant warfare? Would they still advocate for free movement of people?

    Crickets chirping is all I got. These people see the emaciated poster child, and not one damn thing more.

    They don't "do" consequences.
    , @Corvinus
    "Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who’s had a some black friends.). Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it’s silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don’t care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent. So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality."

    You constructed yourself a mighty strawman there. Congratulations. This black or brown dude is quite aware of the realities of race and culture, of societal changes. They look at their own brethren, and as a person who is from the middle class, shakes their head and wonders why those in the hood can't simply "get it together". Their worldview also incorporates how some white people will never bring themselves to admit that their own prejudices stem from confirmation bias and indoctrination. Increasing numbers of people, especially millennials but regardless of color, over the past three decades skillfully handle racial relations. There remains major institutional concerns, and blacks and whites have bonded together to demonstrate that changes are required. Their tactics and suggestions I may personally question; nonetheless, the reality is that whites and blacks, despite their longstanding animosities, seek to bridge the gap between themselves.

    "1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter."

    In some cases, absolutely. But when it comes to IQ, the "race realists" focus exclusively on biological rather than take into account environment and history.

    "The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not."

    Corrected for accuracy --> Depending upon where one lives, there are people regardless of their race that demonstrate kindness and respect. Being "nice" is not a trait that is found more among white people than black people.

    "Don’t take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it’s why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods."

    Corrected for accuracy --> People live in neighborhoods that generally reflect their socio-economic standing. Affluent whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians share a common suspicion of their racial brethren who neglect to work hard and take advantage of their opportunities to better themselves financially.

    "2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy."

    This obsession with the West borders on mental illness. Remember, blacks and browns were doing just fine running their own societies. While their civilizations were not as technologically advanced, they were content with their own progress. That is, until the greedy European stuck their nose into their business for resources and territory.

    "The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three."

    Corrected for accuracy --> Multiculturalism the result of individuals who have common ties and interests.

    "3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own...Basically, there reply was they didn’t want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe."

    Religion, not race, is one's uniform.

    And poor people of different races will bound together, as history as shown.

    https://zinnedproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/stf_union_power.jpg

    "But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe."

    Safe from oppression. Safe from radicals pushing their False News Stories.

    , @gustafus
    The reality of people voting their genes is what's tearing New Mexico and Colorado apart after this election. Colorado went blue because of demographic changes and the legalization of POT + Latino migrants. So the betrayal of the host culture by the 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans isn't as pronounced or hurtful.

    But in New Mexico it's different. Down there whites and Latinos have pretty much found their own levels ... and the cities are self segregating. Much more so than Colorado.

    The election changed all that. You have people trying to turn in illegals, wondering what number to call now that Trump is president. The white population is seething at a Latino population that votes the interests of 600 million Latinos to the south... KNOWING that they are fleeing failed cultures. This is a betrayal of the host population who created the atmosphere in which Latinos could thrive in relative peace.

    Latinos know this - but they still vote their own kind. KNOWING that enough El Salvadorean gangs in Santa Fe or Espanola will destroy what they have.... but they don't care.

    They will stick it to the Gringos ... if they can. And this is in a part of the country that has been pretty much fully integrated for 600 years! -- from before the pilgrims.
    , @animalogic
    Here's a thought bubble you won't like: Shit breaks down quickly & totally....race, colour, whatever, I wonder how much it will matter...?
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  54. @Hulegu
    The UN recently passed a resolution against "killer robots" which I found a bit quixotic at the time. But it occurs to me this is preempting the solution to the problem only Derbyshire is naming. How does the outnumbered West defeat the zombie apocalypse to come? Maybe the answer to the Lifeboat problem is to farm out the task to soulless machines.

    Maybe the answer to the Lifeboat problem is to farm out the task to soulless machines.

    Biological weapons: diseases arrayed against crops, animals, and men. These will be the most efficient (therefore the most likely) under the crowded circumstances of a planet with 10 billion (mostly urban) inhabitants, especially after global trade breaks down.

    A system under stress reacts in a direction to relieve the stress – Le Chatelier

    Probably the most important aspect of our current “system” is that it is urban and interconnected. Very few people are involved in producing essential goods, many are not productive at all, and almost all depend on the “system” functioning to gain their daily bread.

    Before the system can completely break down there is one more powerful card in the deck. When the financial bubble first breaks the only open route to maintain the system (and avoid chaos) will be to turn over the reins to a government with authority to keep the wheels turning by fiat. The laws to do this in the USA are already on the books. The emergency powers of the executive branch are almost without limit, waiting only for the emergency.

    BUT, for most of the last century the primary tactic of government has been to buy agreement between conflicting interests (peace, or the absence of conflict) by using borrowed money to give all parties enough to keep them mollified, if not satisfied. After the credit bubble breaks the government will have to start assigning losses and picking winners, which will mean increasing conflict.

    Only Nature will stand against it, but that will be enough.

    Read More
    • Replies: @another fred
    One further detail is that "this time" really is different in one crucial aspect. Historically, when a bubble breaks there are bankruptcies, a general clearing of financial accounts with losses assigned, and the financial cycle begins again. The largest obligations of social democracies and other socialized governments are to the citizens, defaulting on them is not an option if the financial system is to survive. Since the people are urban and dependent, they cannot survive without the system, which is to say they cannot survive (in the same numbers) without the government
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  55. gustafus says:
    @Anonymous

    I am a woman … and I agree. But I am an alpha female… much much different than other women.
     
    ROFL. No, you're not. You're a very beta male poseur.

    Laughing? that I am a woman? or a poseur? I am 69 years old. I have 3 children and an ex husband… do I have to describe labor pains? my former period?

    I just proved I am, and have always been an alpha female…men think i’m a man when I write.

    As it happens I used to own a small newspaper in a ski town…. you gotta have brass ones somewhere to take on the Ski Companies and the mines in these places… I did and they auctioned off my boots years later in a fund raiser for the radio station. !!

    Mrs. Gustafus

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I just proved I am, and have always been an alpha female…men think i’m a man when I write.
     
    Oh, I don't mind if you believe you're an "alpha" female -- just as I regard the deluded application of primate social theory as amusing, but neither accurate nor providing of predictability.

    Go right ahead.
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  56. gustafus says:
    @epochehusserl
    Medieval African civilizations were built upon castrated black eunuchs. Would you care to resurrect that custom?

    In a New York Minute…. testosterone is a plague when the IQ is below room temperature. And a damned nuisance to everything and everybody when above.

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    • Replies: @Truth

    In a New York Minute…. testosterone is a plague when the IQ is below room temperature. And a damned nuisance to everything and everybody when above.
     
    Are you sure you aren't a dyke?
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  57. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Corvinus,

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who's had a some black friends.)

    Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it's silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don't care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent.

    So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality.

    But here's what your worldview is missing.

    1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter

    The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not.

    Don't take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it's why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods.

    2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy

    The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three.

    3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own.

    A friend of mine took a train through the old Yugoslavia before it broke up. On the train, he was talking with some soldiers. They were good friends. One was a Serb. One was a Bosnian. Another guy was a Croatian. (Apparently, the gov't did that alot, mixing the different groups to break down the old divisions.) My friend asked about them what they thought was going to happen to the country. They all said that it would break up and there would be civil war. My friend asked what they'd do. Would they kill people they know just because they weren't Serb or Bosnian.

    Basically, there reply was they didn't want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe.

    Now, I don't think that the U.S. would ever become anything like the break-up of Yugoslavia, but you'd be prudent to remember what those soldiers said - and, almost certainly, did. Your white neighbors and friends do like you. Just like those soldiers liked each other. But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe.

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life.

    Other possibility: Corvinus is a young white woman…or an older one who is childless.

    Either way, the exhibition of low levels of life experience or grasp of consequences is profound.

    I once asked an open-borders debate opponent what happens if the UN population estimates for Africa are fulfilled, and literally half a billion people must move to North America (and another half a billion to Europe) or they all starve/perish in incessant warfare? Would they still advocate for free movement of people?

    Crickets chirping is all I got. These people see the emaciated poster child, and not one damn thing more.

    They don’t “do” consequences.

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  58. Corvinus says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Corvinus,

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who's had a some black friends.)

    Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it's silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don't care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent.

    So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality.

    But here's what your worldview is missing.

    1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter

    The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not.

    Don't take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it's why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods.

    2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy

    The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three.

    3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own.

    A friend of mine took a train through the old Yugoslavia before it broke up. On the train, he was talking with some soldiers. They were good friends. One was a Serb. One was a Bosnian. Another guy was a Croatian. (Apparently, the gov't did that alot, mixing the different groups to break down the old divisions.) My friend asked about them what they thought was going to happen to the country. They all said that it would break up and there would be civil war. My friend asked what they'd do. Would they kill people they know just because they weren't Serb or Bosnian.

    Basically, there reply was they didn't want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe.

    Now, I don't think that the U.S. would ever become anything like the break-up of Yugoslavia, but you'd be prudent to remember what those soldiers said - and, almost certainly, did. Your white neighbors and friends do like you. Just like those soldiers liked each other. But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe.

    “Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who’s had a some black friends.). Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it’s silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don’t care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent. So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality.”

    You constructed yourself a mighty strawman there. Congratulations. This black or brown dude is quite aware of the realities of race and culture, of societal changes. They look at their own brethren, and as a person who is from the middle class, shakes their head and wonders why those in the hood can’t simply “get it together”. Their worldview also incorporates how some white people will never bring themselves to admit that their own prejudices stem from confirmation bias and indoctrination. Increasing numbers of people, especially millennials but regardless of color, over the past three decades skillfully handle racial relations. There remains major institutional concerns, and blacks and whites have bonded together to demonstrate that changes are required. Their tactics and suggestions I may personally question; nonetheless, the reality is that whites and blacks, despite their longstanding animosities, seek to bridge the gap between themselves.

    “1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter.”

    In some cases, absolutely. But when it comes to IQ, the “race realists” focus exclusively on biological rather than take into account environment and history.

    “The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not.”

    Corrected for accuracy –> Depending upon where one lives, there are people regardless of their race that demonstrate kindness and respect. Being “nice” is not a trait that is found more among white people than black people.

    “Don’t take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it’s why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods.”

    Corrected for accuracy –> People live in neighborhoods that generally reflect their socio-economic standing. Affluent whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians share a common suspicion of their racial brethren who neglect to work hard and take advantage of their opportunities to better themselves financially.

    “2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy.”

    This obsession with the West borders on mental illness. Remember, blacks and browns were doing just fine running their own societies. While their civilizations were not as technologically advanced, they were content with their own progress. That is, until the greedy European stuck their nose into their business for resources and territory.

    “The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three.”

    Corrected for accuracy –> Multiculturalism the result of individuals who have common ties and interests.

    “3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own…Basically, there reply was they didn’t want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe.”

    Religion, not race, is one’s uniform.

    And poor people of different races will bound together, as history as shown.

    “But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe.”

    Safe from oppression. Safe from radicals pushing their False News Stories.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    We also wish that Europeans had not gotten entangled with or imported anyone from your ancestral lands, wherever they may be. Believe me.

    As for "whites aren't any more kind than blacks", you insult our intelligence. My actual decades of life experience living among all kinds of people, need not yield to your assertion.

    Who am I going to believe, you or my lying eyes and ears?

    Poverty, alleged lack of opportunity, and alleged racial bias, could account for disproportionate involvement in theft. We would all steal to survive or feed and clothe our children, if we are being honest.

    But poverty or the other factors -- some real, some exaggerated or imagined -- don't explain the long history of Africans in the usa and Canada being disproportionately involved in sheer cruelty, inflicting pain and fear for fun, raping, torturing, and murdering.

    A tiny percentage of white people currently in the USA are descended from anyone who ever sold, bought, or harmed a slave. (For many, perhaps most, white Americans, our ancestors didn't even come here until after slavery was abolished -- for many of us, long after. Nor did our ancestors do a damn thing to yours here in the USA; they were persevering through discrimination, learning English, and working hard and fighting in this country's stupid wars to prove ourselves.)

    By contrast, a huge percentage of Africans in the USA are involved in hurting, terrorizing, and trying to harm the rest of us, and laughing while they do it.

    My life has been enriched by my friendships and other relationships with people of various different racial and cultural backgrounds, including my own wife. Africans, with one major exception, not so much. And your attempts to equate your race with others in this regard, is an insult to the tens of millions of white (and now also Asian and hispanic) American victims of violence, cruelty, intimidation and degradation at the hands of Africans in our country.

    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Imagine that. Corvinus citing a project devoted to Howard Zinn! So just being dishonest isn't enough. Your have to have a citation referencing a project dedicated to dishonesty.
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  59. Corvinus says:
    @dc.sunsets

    I will admit, you and your “doom and gloom” scenarios are neatly written. But “do-gooders” and “good whites” will decidedly NOT be on board with tyrannical efforts to remove en masse and by force millions of “bad whites” or “non whites”.
     
    You really don't grasp my point, do you? Have you ever watched fashions change?

    Or are you too young to notice major change?

    “You really don’t grasp my point, do you? Have you ever watched fashions change?”

    I get your point. How can I not when you bludgeon me over the head with it repeatedly–Elitists look out for themselves. Common people royally screwed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets

    Elitists look out for themselves. Common people royally screwed.
     
    (Chuckle.) Those who have, because they built, get tired of being robbed in favor of the have-nots (who haven't built and often refuse to try) by their neighbors who are busy signaling their (false) moral superiority by favoring Marxist redistribution.

    Are you saying that common people are too stupid to look out for themselves? They need people like you, who simply uses them as shock troops to fuel your smug sense of moral superiority? Without you, they're too stupid to avoid being "royally screwed?"

    Who's the elitist here?

    Robin Hood doesn't run a charity. Given I started out with nothing (except debt from college), I have a difficult time seeing how I'm "Elite." What I have wasn't taken from someone else. Robbing me in favor of some other ("common?") person isn't a moral act.

    Am I capable? Are my sons capable? Yes and yes. And we'd like to keep what we produce, not have clowns like you redistribute it to satisfy some sense of egalitarianism. If that's what makes us "elitist," well, GFY. I can't wait to see how your kind fares when this Grand Illusion dissipates.

    Popcorn ready.
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  60. gustafus says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Corvinus,

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who's had a some black friends.)

    Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it's silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don't care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent.

    So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality.

    But here's what your worldview is missing.

    1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter

    The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not.

    Don't take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it's why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods.

    2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy

    The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three.

    3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own.

    A friend of mine took a train through the old Yugoslavia before it broke up. On the train, he was talking with some soldiers. They were good friends. One was a Serb. One was a Bosnian. Another guy was a Croatian. (Apparently, the gov't did that alot, mixing the different groups to break down the old divisions.) My friend asked about them what they thought was going to happen to the country. They all said that it would break up and there would be civil war. My friend asked what they'd do. Would they kill people they know just because they weren't Serb or Bosnian.

    Basically, there reply was they didn't want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe.

    Now, I don't think that the U.S. would ever become anything like the break-up of Yugoslavia, but you'd be prudent to remember what those soldiers said - and, almost certainly, did. Your white neighbors and friends do like you. Just like those soldiers liked each other. But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe.

    The reality of people voting their genes is what’s tearing New Mexico and Colorado apart after this election. Colorado went blue because of demographic changes and the legalization of POT + Latino migrants. So the betrayal of the host culture by the 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans isn’t as pronounced or hurtful.

    But in New Mexico it’s different. Down there whites and Latinos have pretty much found their own levels … and the cities are self segregating. Much more so than Colorado.

    The election changed all that. You have people trying to turn in illegals, wondering what number to call now that Trump is president. The white population is seething at a Latino population that votes the interests of 600 million Latinos to the south… KNOWING that they are fleeing failed cultures. This is a betrayal of the host population who created the atmosphere in which Latinos could thrive in relative peace.

    Latinos know this – but they still vote their own kind. KNOWING that enough El Salvadorean gangs in Santa Fe or Espanola will destroy what they have…. but they don’t care.

    They will stick it to the Gringos … if they can. And this is in a part of the country that has been pretty much fully integrated for 600 years! — from before the pilgrims.

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  61. @another fred

    Maybe the answer to the Lifeboat problem is to farm out the task to soulless machines.
     
    Biological weapons: diseases arrayed against crops, animals, and men. These will be the most efficient (therefore the most likely) under the crowded circumstances of a planet with 10 billion (mostly urban) inhabitants, especially after global trade breaks down.

    A system under stress reacts in a direction to relieve the stress - Le Chatelier

    Probably the most important aspect of our current "system" is that it is urban and interconnected. Very few people are involved in producing essential goods, many are not productive at all, and almost all depend on the "system" functioning to gain their daily bread.

    Before the system can completely break down there is one more powerful card in the deck. When the financial bubble first breaks the only open route to maintain the system (and avoid chaos) will be to turn over the reins to a government with authority to keep the wheels turning by fiat. The laws to do this in the USA are already on the books. The emergency powers of the executive branch are almost without limit, waiting only for the emergency.

    BUT, for most of the last century the primary tactic of government has been to buy agreement between conflicting interests (peace, or the absence of conflict) by using borrowed money to give all parties enough to keep them mollified, if not satisfied. After the credit bubble breaks the government will have to start assigning losses and picking winners, which will mean increasing conflict.

    Only Nature will stand against it, but that will be enough.

    One further detail is that “this time” really is different in one crucial aspect. Historically, when a bubble breaks there are bankruptcies, a general clearing of financial accounts with losses assigned, and the financial cycle begins again. The largest obligations of social democracies and other socialized governments are to the citizens, defaulting on them is not an option if the financial system is to survive. Since the people are urban and dependent, they cannot survive without the system, which is to say they cannot survive (in the same numbers) without the government

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets

    Since the people are urban and dependent, they cannot survive without the system, which is to say they cannot survive (in the same numbers) without the government
     
    Pray tell, from where is "the government" going to obtain the means of their people's survival?

    All consumption is in real time; it is impossible to consume products to be made in the future.

    What the credit/debt bubble produces is a diversion of what is consumed, and thus a radical alteration in the structure of production. "Government" thus waves vast sums of "money" at certain things, and entire economies evolve to produce what is thus demanded.

    This produced armies of people who don't produce necessities (or know how to feed themselves); they are entirely skilled at the FIRE economy, or (over)producing medical services, higher ed services, social-welfare services and services on which politicians showered the loot.

    At the same time, organic demand for other "stuff" waned, as did the numbers of people skilled and able to produce it.

    THIS is how a credit bubble "consumes" the future, by altering the capital structure so that vast investments of time and skill become embedded in industries for which demand is entirely artificial and temporary.

    In today's world, job specialization is massive. If you're 50 years old and have worked in a particular industry or capacity, your ability to shift to another is almost nonexistent. Take that condition, pull the plug on credit-bubble-supported demand characteristics and what results is a phenomenal number of people who are suddenly without relevant (economically useful) skills. [Add them to the huge number of people who don't even try to be economically useful....]

    Today's plummeting Labor Force Participation Rate is a harbinger of what's to come. It will be fascinating to watch political forces attempt to simultaneously satisfy a dozen "hungry" factions for every single dose of spending available.

    The multiple waves of cataclysm that roll through societies as this condition is worked off should be unprecedented.

    What a great time to learn to garden...and be happy with less---a lot less.
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  62. the only countries in danger right now are european ones. and these economic refugees understands where to go.

    a short boat ride from north africa into italy = free welfare for life.

    I am 100% sure full automation would happen before I die. all the humans born now are a waste of space, not just the refugees. EU govts needs to understand this.

    Read More
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  63. @Corvinus
    "You really don’t grasp my point, do you? Have you ever watched fashions change?"

    I get your point. How can I not when you bludgeon me over the head with it repeatedly--Elitists look out for themselves. Common people royally screwed.

    Elitists look out for themselves. Common people royally screwed.

    (Chuckle.) Those who have, because they built, get tired of being robbed in favor of the have-nots (who haven’t built and often refuse to try) by their neighbors who are busy signaling their (false) moral superiority by favoring Marxist redistribution.

    Are you saying that common people are too stupid to look out for themselves? They need people like you, who simply uses them as shock troops to fuel your smug sense of moral superiority? Without you, they’re too stupid to avoid being “royally screwed?”

    Who’s the elitist here?

    Robin Hood doesn’t run a charity. Given I started out with nothing (except debt from college), I have a difficult time seeing how I’m “Elite.” What I have wasn’t taken from someone else. Robbing me in favor of some other (“common?”) person isn’t a moral act.

    Am I capable? Are my sons capable? Yes and yes. And we’d like to keep what we produce, not have clowns like you redistribute it to satisfy some sense of egalitarianism. If that’s what makes us “elitist,” well, GFY. I can’t wait to see how your kind fares when this Grand Illusion dissipates.

    Popcorn ready.

    Read More
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  64. 1rw says:
    @Talha
    Hey Johnny,

    You mean 'absorbed'? The initial Muslim conquerors were simple (though extremely pious and steadfast) Arabs that inherited the treasures and marvels of Byzantium and Persia - they didn't bring with them science or architecture or such things - they brought them unadulterated transcendent monotheism and an idea that all men were brothers. The Muslims hired out non-Muslim conquered people to keep things running because they couldn't do it themselves. Over time, as Islam spread through the population you started seeing the phenomenon of Muslim Arab and Persian polymaths. These were the people that took what the civilizations before them had accomplished and built on top of it. Men like Biruni (ra), Ibn-al Haytham (ra), Ibn Rushd (ra) and others were obviously indebted to works of the Egyptians, Greeks or Hindus - is there a difference of opinion on this? Conquerors absorb the intellectual capital of those they conquer - it is a right claimed through blood, fire and steel on the battlefield - it has always been this way - SJW opinions to the contrary.


    Did they also ever talk about the purges of knowledge and scholars that contradicted the teachings of the Koran?
     
    Proof? Islam was historically far more accommodating to its heretical or heterodox opinions; men like Farabi, Kindi, Ibn Sina, Abu Nuwas and others were quite prolific in their output and it was circulated widely - and simply put down by the writings and speeches of men like Imams Razi (ra), Ghazali (ra), Baqillani (ra). Please bring evidence that these men with heterodox opinions were running around scared to be burnt at the stake. Anomalous incidents like the Almohad take over of Spain or some of the edicts of insane Fatimid caliphs notwithstanding - everyone has their crazies.

    Peace.

    So what happened?

    And why did the Christian West surge ahead?

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Lots of theories that have been presented, but I'm not a 100% sure why. From what I can tell Western Christianity traded in the pre-eminence of religion in life to the material and emperical - it was a slow process and littered with quite a few bodies along the way. After Rosseau, Hume, Voltaire and others, basically the West is Post-Christian now. And when they took that route, wow, did they excel in it! Materially, they are magnificent in accomplishment - who can deny this?

    Spiritually, well...all of it depends on one's priorities; I'm not a 100% sure I want Muslims to go that route seeing what's at the end of it...not enough Kiergegaard:
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kierkegaard/

    Peace.
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  65. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @dc.sunsets
    True, but I worry about the credit-bubble warping of the capital structure of production.

    Waste is a common problem, but when two generations of people have committed their lives to its creation, what happens when they lose exchange value for the "shiny beads" they make (and they have no other skills?)

    True, but I worry about the credit-bubble warping of the capital structure of production.

    It does, but it does not warp the structure of production per se. Hence, the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed — for the most part.

    Waste is a common problem, but when two generations of people have committed their lives to its creation, what happens when they lose exchange value for the “shiny beads” they make (and they have no other skills?)

    Briefly, sure. But so what? Who dies from lack of shiny beads?

    Read More
    • Replies: @dc.sunsets

    It does, but it does not warp the structure of production per se. Hence, the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed — for the most part.
     
    Perhaps you've not looked for a job nowadays, especially one outside the industry in which you've labored.

    What do you think would happen to the tens of millions of people who are skilled and capable in areas of medical services (from doctors to nurses to pharmacists and industry sales people) if Uncle Sammy suddenly couldn't fund Medicare/Medicaid?

    The First World's economy has been warped mightily by the credit bubble. All those people making all that stuff (or providing all those services) have jobs ONLY because they think they're getting richer by lending their politicians the ability to borrow and spend to buy the very goods & services on which their jobs depend.

    When the jig is finally up, and the last IOU is issued, paradoxically it will be the very same people, dependent on that debt-fueled demand, who stop lending. In a sense, they'll put themselves out of business (not that such artificial demand can be grown forever, no tree grows to the sky.)

    Sooner or later, this fashion too will change.
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  66. Talha says:
    @Anon
    Thanks. Yes, I was aware of Mansa Musa, and of the fact that you were quoting Nat-Geo (I followed the link- it's an interesting read) and I intend to read ibn Battuta at some point (I read his account of India long ago in another connection, and found it very much worth reading).

    I was mainly protesting the bizarre tendency of writers, and indeed the mainstream culture aside from medievalists and a few others, to belittle the entire thousand-year span from the fall of Rome to the fall of Constantinople as an era in which little happened worth noting in Europe. Though you may disagree, I also object to the exaltation of the (considerable) achievements of the Muslim world of the time at the expense of Europe; another common tic of the literati.

    Ibn Battuta (ra) is good, Ibn Khaldun (ra) is excellent and Biruni (ra) knew India really, really well.

    I agree and I think it is this Cultural Marxism trying to completely rewrite European history to make it seem like that era was just full on ankle-deep crap-filled streets and mobs of filthy men looking for witches to rape and burn. I think that is foolish. Though, admittedly Europe is quite vast, and certain pockets were a bit like that.

    at the expense of Europe

    I’m no expert on European history, but I know a good amount of it where it intersects with Muslim history. I’m not sure I disagree with you necessarily; depends on what you mean by ‘expense of’. Muslim scholars definitely cited the works of Europeans (and others) like Galen, Euclid, Ptolemy, Plato, etc. in their writings, whether they were building upon their works or refuting them. So the continuum of knowledge from the Hellenic, Vedic and others was certainly synthesized and due credit should be given.

    Peace.

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  67. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @gustafus
    Laughing? that I am a woman? or a poseur? I am 69 years old. I have 3 children and an ex husband... do I have to describe labor pains? my former period?

    I just proved I am, and have always been an alpha female...men think i'm a man when I write.

    As it happens I used to own a small newspaper in a ski town.... you gotta have brass ones somewhere to take on the Ski Companies and the mines in these places... I did and they auctioned off my boots years later in a fund raiser for the radio station. !!

    Mrs. Gustafus

    I just proved I am, and have always been an alpha female…men think i’m a man when I write.

    Oh, I don’t mind if you believe you’re an “alpha” female — just as I regard the deluded application of primate social theory as amusing, but neither accurate nor providing of predictability.

    Go right ahead.

    Read More
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  68. @another fred
    One further detail is that "this time" really is different in one crucial aspect. Historically, when a bubble breaks there are bankruptcies, a general clearing of financial accounts with losses assigned, and the financial cycle begins again. The largest obligations of social democracies and other socialized governments are to the citizens, defaulting on them is not an option if the financial system is to survive. Since the people are urban and dependent, they cannot survive without the system, which is to say they cannot survive (in the same numbers) without the government

    Since the people are urban and dependent, they cannot survive without the system, which is to say they cannot survive (in the same numbers) without the government

    Pray tell, from where is “the government” going to obtain the means of their people’s survival?

    All consumption is in real time; it is impossible to consume products to be made in the future.

    What the credit/debt bubble produces is a diversion of what is consumed, and thus a radical alteration in the structure of production. “Government” thus waves vast sums of “money” at certain things, and entire economies evolve to produce what is thus demanded.

    This produced armies of people who don’t produce necessities (or know how to feed themselves); they are entirely skilled at the FIRE economy, or (over)producing medical services, higher ed services, social-welfare services and services on which politicians showered the loot.

    At the same time, organic demand for other “stuff” waned, as did the numbers of people skilled and able to produce it.

    THIS is how a credit bubble “consumes” the future, by altering the capital structure so that vast investments of time and skill become embedded in industries for which demand is entirely artificial and temporary.

    In today’s world, job specialization is massive. If you’re 50 years old and have worked in a particular industry or capacity, your ability to shift to another is almost nonexistent. Take that condition, pull the plug on credit-bubble-supported demand characteristics and what results is a phenomenal number of people who are suddenly without relevant (economically useful) skills. [Add them to the huge number of people who don't even try to be economically useful....]

    Today’s plummeting Labor Force Participation Rate is a harbinger of what’s to come. It will be fascinating to watch political forces attempt to simultaneously satisfy a dozen “hungry” factions for every single dose of spending available.

    The multiple waves of cataclysm that roll through societies as this condition is worked off should be unprecedented.

    What a great time to learn to garden…and be happy with less—a lot less.

    Read More
    • Replies: @another fred

    Pray tell, from where is “the government” going to obtain the means of their people’s survival?
     
    In an "emergency" the executive branch, specifically the President and Secretaries, have the legal authority to direct all commerce in the USA. They can tell farmers what to plant and where to deliver it, processors to process the food and where to ship it, stores to sell it, what to accept in payment, and the Treasury to issue the needed fiat money.

    Likewise they have the same authority over all "essential" commerce, including energy, water, law enforcement, and the media.

    The laws (and executive orders issued under the laws) are in place, all that is needed is a declared emergency. Small landholders may fall between the cracks, large corporations will not.

    I am not saying it will work to create long-term stability, just that this will be the next stage. The expansion of credit fueled "growth" will come to an end and there will be winners and losers (the unproductive most likely) selected by the government, but in order to keep chaos from reigning it will be done.
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  69. @Anonymous

    True, but I worry about the credit-bubble warping of the capital structure of production.
     
    It does, but it does not warp the structure of production per se. Hence, the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed -- for the most part.

    Waste is a common problem, but when two generations of people have committed their lives to its creation, what happens when they lose exchange value for the “shiny beads” they make (and they have no other skills?)
     
    Briefly, sure. But so what? Who dies from lack of shiny beads?

    It does, but it does not warp the structure of production per se. Hence, the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed — for the most part.

    Perhaps you’ve not looked for a job nowadays, especially one outside the industry in which you’ve labored.

    What do you think would happen to the tens of millions of people who are skilled and capable in areas of medical services (from doctors to nurses to pharmacists and industry sales people) if Uncle Sammy suddenly couldn’t fund Medicare/Medicaid?

    The First World’s economy has been warped mightily by the credit bubble. All those people making all that stuff (or providing all those services) have jobs ONLY because they think they’re getting richer by lending their politicians the ability to borrow and spend to buy the very goods & services on which their jobs depend.

    When the jig is finally up, and the last IOU is issued, paradoxically it will be the very same people, dependent on that debt-fueled demand, who stop lending. In a sense, they’ll put themselves out of business (not that such artificial demand can be grown forever, no tree grows to the sky.)

    Sooner or later, this fashion too will change.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    What do you think would happen to the tens of millions of people who are skilled and capable in areas of medical services (from doctors to nurses to pharmacists and industry sales people) if Uncle Sammy suddenly couldn’t fund Medicare/Medicaid?
     
    Their standard of living will shift downward. But, that was not what I addressed ("the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed"). Balance will be achieved. Balance may be achieved via starvation, revolutions, disease, etc. The Earth can support a global human population of what? Maybe six billion? Try taking a long view. 2 billion will die. Is that a bad thing? Of course not.
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  70. Struggle for survival always trumps moral universalism (and democracy, too). The real question is: will successful modern peoples wake up in time to simply stop migration swamping of hungry 3rd world masses, so that they can be fed & governed by powerful post-industrial societies (say goodbye to sovereignty of virtually all African & many Latin American and Asian countries) ?

    Or, they’ll wait, puzzled & compassionate, until the only way out is something close to mass extermination of demographic invaders (however inhumane this may sound) ?

    That is the question.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Or, they’ll wait, puzzled & compassionate, until the only way out is something close to mass extermination of demographic invaders (however inhumane this may sound) ?
     
    They'll wait. Complexity tends to resolve itself inexorably. Entropy is the preeminent natural process.
    , @dc.sunsets
    I don't think things get quite that polarized.

    The open-borders crises of today simply evaporate under a host of conditions that appear trivially simple to institute in the modern world. It wouldn't require gulags or mass graves, all that's required is a willingness to embrace hard limits on welfare-state distribution and enforce economic nationalism inside the border.

    People won't stream into First World countries if they can't get First or even Second World lives there. No one leaves "home" without a very steep gradient in benefit.

    All of this hand-wringing is both understandable and time-delimited. Whether or not we've seen the apogee of open borders, the pendulum will swing back and I don't think it will have to be that wrenching...unless it's you getting told to "go home."

    The USA can muddle through with its various cultures as long as there's some pull-back from "anything goes."
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  71. @Anonymous
    If White countries are wiped out, the whole world descends to Brown Misery.

    But if whites are the cerebrum and the browns are the brain stem, then the elimination of whites could be viewed as a sort of anesthesia. There may be unfathomable, widespread misery, but so its been since the first enervated organisms sensed their surroundings.

    What does trilobite history say of trilobite suffering? What do you know of it? How bad was it in the aggregate compared to the plight of the Jews in WWII?

    Read More
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  72. Truth says:
    @gustafus
    In a New York Minute.... testosterone is a plague when the IQ is below room temperature. And a damned nuisance to everything and everybody when above.

    In a New York Minute…. testosterone is a plague when the IQ is below room temperature. And a damned nuisance to everything and everybody when above.

    Are you sure you aren’t a dyke?

    Read More
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  73. Talha says:
    @1rw
    So what happened?

    And why did the Christian West surge ahead?

    Hey 1rw,

    Lots of theories that have been presented, but I’m not a 100% sure why. From what I can tell Western Christianity traded in the pre-eminence of religion in life to the material and emperical – it was a slow process and littered with quite a few bodies along the way. After Rosseau, Hume, Voltaire and others, basically the West is Post-Christian now. And when they took that route, wow, did they excel in it! Materially, they are magnificent in accomplishment – who can deny this?

    Spiritually, well…all of it depends on one’s priorities; I’m not a 100% sure I want Muslims to go that route seeing what’s at the end of it…not enough Kiergegaard:

    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kierkegaard/

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left "white people" susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not. Clutching to the empty identity of being "white" is no replacement for what has been lost, and it's ironic that America's racist heritage has contributed to its own loss of identity, taking pride in a skin color was perpetuated by the harsh treatment of those who did not share it.
    , @1rw
    Muslims aren't spiritual. Don't really see it. What are you talking about? Lol. Can't lose what you don't have. Islam is the straight jacket that keeps brown people from descending into complete goat screwing degeneracy. Under Islam, they only do it on Thursday. It's about as spiritual as kinder garden for misbehaving dull children.
    , @imnobody00
    I don't discuss that you think that African and Muslim civilizations are magnificent.

    So, why can't the children of these civilizations stay in their homelands enjoying all this greatness? Why do they need to come to the decadent Western civilization?

    Imagine: being in Mali, besides the history of the Timbuktu university. Such a privilege. I have heard that millions of white people are trying to illegally immigrate into Mali and Saudi Arabia to try to enjoy the fruits of these advanced civilizations.

    I love African and Arab immigrants. This is why I don't want them to come to white countries. I prefer for them to enjoy their native civilization. Living in white countries while lecturing us about the greatness of Muslim civilization is hypocritical.

    Go to the House of Islam, dear Talha! Don't waste your time commenting in infidels' forums! Iraq, Afghanistan, Mali, Morocco, Pakistan, Jordan... the most advanced countries on Earth. The best religion on Earth (Germany is currently being enriched by it). May Allah bless your journey to these countries and let the decadent countries behind. Please take all your fellow coreligionists with you.

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  74. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @dc.sunsets

    It does, but it does not warp the structure of production per se. Hence, the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed — for the most part.
     
    Perhaps you've not looked for a job nowadays, especially one outside the industry in which you've labored.

    What do you think would happen to the tens of millions of people who are skilled and capable in areas of medical services (from doctors to nurses to pharmacists and industry sales people) if Uncle Sammy suddenly couldn't fund Medicare/Medicaid?

    The First World's economy has been warped mightily by the credit bubble. All those people making all that stuff (or providing all those services) have jobs ONLY because they think they're getting richer by lending their politicians the ability to borrow and spend to buy the very goods & services on which their jobs depend.

    When the jig is finally up, and the last IOU is issued, paradoxically it will be the very same people, dependent on that debt-fueled demand, who stop lending. In a sense, they'll put themselves out of business (not that such artificial demand can be grown forever, no tree grows to the sky.)

    Sooner or later, this fashion too will change.

    What do you think would happen to the tens of millions of people who are skilled and capable in areas of medical services (from doctors to nurses to pharmacists and industry sales people) if Uncle Sammy suddenly couldn’t fund Medicare/Medicaid?

    Their standard of living will shift downward. But, that was not what I addressed (“the natural process of essential productivity remains unharmed”). Balance will be achieved. Balance may be achieved via starvation, revolutions, disease, etc. The Earth can support a global human population of what? Maybe six billion? Try taking a long view. 2 billion will die. Is that a bad thing? Of course not.

    Read More
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  75. Truth says:

    Our Ruling Class’s anxieties about the Russians, and their anxieties about us, have a deckchairs-on-the-Titanic quality about them. Peering forward into the middle 21st century as best I am able, there are much bigger issues looming.

    Bigger than the escalation to global thermonuclear war?

    Well OK then Mr. Cheb-yi-zhai, you’ve knocked another one out of the park!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Truth,

    Bigger than the escalation to global thermonuclear war?
     
    Yeah, you'd think that one wouldn't have snuck under the radar, but I guess boat people are the biggest scare - apparently something that can be dealt with by any third rate coast guard (or given the political will to stop the handouts). Political will doesn't stop an ICBM from obliterating your capital city though just because Washington and Moscow can't keep it in their pants.

    Speaking of population/depopulation - ain't nobody as good at populating and depopulating Europe like Europeans - let me tell ya!

    I guess it'll be WWIII? Can't have a sound trilogy without the third installment.

    Peace.

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  76. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Bardon Kaldian
    Struggle for survival always trumps moral universalism (and democracy, too). The real question is: will successful modern peoples wake up in time to simply stop migration swamping of hungry 3rd world masses, so that they can be fed & governed by powerful post-industrial societies (say goodbye to sovereignty of virtually all African & many Latin American and Asian countries) ?

    Or, they'll wait, puzzled & compassionate, until the only way out is something close to mass extermination of demographic invaders (however inhumane this may sound) ?

    That is the question.

    Or, they’ll wait, puzzled & compassionate, until the only way out is something close to mass extermination of demographic invaders (however inhumane this may sound) ?

    They’ll wait. Complexity tends to resolve itself inexorably. Entropy is the preeminent natural process.

    Read More
    • Replies: @neutral
    I don't think that many would argue with that, but the problem is when exactly this process will resolve itself ? Will whites have already gone extinct by the time that entropy fixes this unnatural state ?
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  77. @Bardon Kaldian
    Struggle for survival always trumps moral universalism (and democracy, too). The real question is: will successful modern peoples wake up in time to simply stop migration swamping of hungry 3rd world masses, so that they can be fed & governed by powerful post-industrial societies (say goodbye to sovereignty of virtually all African & many Latin American and Asian countries) ?

    Or, they'll wait, puzzled & compassionate, until the only way out is something close to mass extermination of demographic invaders (however inhumane this may sound) ?

    That is the question.

    I don’t think things get quite that polarized.

    The open-borders crises of today simply evaporate under a host of conditions that appear trivially simple to institute in the modern world. It wouldn’t require gulags or mass graves, all that’s required is a willingness to embrace hard limits on welfare-state distribution and enforce economic nationalism inside the border.

    People won’t stream into First World countries if they can’t get First or even Second World lives there. No one leaves “home” without a very steep gradient in benefit.

    All of this hand-wringing is both understandable and time-delimited. Whether or not we’ve seen the apogee of open borders, the pendulum will swing back and I don’t think it will have to be that wrenching…unless it’s you getting told to “go home.”

    The USA can muddle through with its various cultures as long as there’s some pull-back from “anything goes.”

    Read More
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  78. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:

    How “high iq” are a people who passively allow Khazarian fake Jews to control their government and foreign policy lol. How “high iq” are a people who have traded in honor and wisdom for the Jewish value of being clever. I guess when it comes to being a hoe, you can take pride in being a smart one lol, but the bottom line is your still being pimped. How “high iq” are a people whose idea of “material progress” has been the only designator of progress while they have morally become a decadent people. The mechanization of the world has deemed the planet unlivable in 2 short centuries while the rest of the world has been able to live in it with no issues for thousands of years. Western civilation can sprint faster than all other runners but then again this isn’t a sprint but a long distance run and you won’t win the race when the speed you run breaks your ankles and leaves you out of breath after the first lap.

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    Yes, the rest of the world has been able to live in poverty and famine for thousands of years. It would have continued doing so probably until the next Ice Age, freakishly large volcanic eruption or asteroid impact made traditional agriculture impossible and it's curtains.

    Instead, we've gone and developed science and technology, such jerks
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  79. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:

    Europe didn’t send their best here either a couple of centuries ago and the early white settlers considered newcoming European migrants to be the dumbass low iq people of that time as well. A lot of you are the offspring of those “low iq” migrants and I guess the proof is in the pudding because Jews run this country and give you guys the scraps off the plates. In fact, the Jews who arrived here were also considered dumb but now look at who runs who lol. White america has morally degenerated and this makes you goyim the perfect prey. Jews are very intelligent and there is a lot to be admired, they will convince you to lose your religion while they hold on strong to theirs, making you susceptible to pitfalls that they are protected from because of it.

    Read More
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  80. Talha says:
    @Truth

    Our Ruling Class’s anxieties about the Russians, and their anxieties about us, have a deckchairs-on-the-Titanic quality about them. Peering forward into the middle 21st century as best I am able, there are much bigger issues looming.
     
    Bigger than the escalation to global thermonuclear war?

    Well OK then Mr. Cheb-yi-zhai, you've knocked another one out of the park!

    Hey Truth,

    Bigger than the escalation to global thermonuclear war?

    Yeah, you’d think that one wouldn’t have snuck under the radar, but I guess boat people are the biggest scare – apparently something that can be dealt with by any third rate coast guard (or given the political will to stop the handouts). Political will doesn’t stop an ICBM from obliterating your capital city though just because Washington and Moscow can’t keep it in their pants.

    Speaking of population/depopulation – ain’t nobody as good at populating and depopulating Europe like Europeans – let me tell ya!

    I guess it’ll be WWIII? Can’t have a sound trilogy without the third installment.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Truth
    Well, he is the genius here, maybe we're misinformed.
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  81. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Lots of theories that have been presented, but I'm not a 100% sure why. From what I can tell Western Christianity traded in the pre-eminence of religion in life to the material and emperical - it was a slow process and littered with quite a few bodies along the way. After Rosseau, Hume, Voltaire and others, basically the West is Post-Christian now. And when they took that route, wow, did they excel in it! Materially, they are magnificent in accomplishment - who can deny this?

    Spiritually, well...all of it depends on one's priorities; I'm not a 100% sure I want Muslims to go that route seeing what's at the end of it...not enough Kiergegaard:
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kierkegaard/

    Peace.

    The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left “white people” susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not. Clutching to the empty identity of being “white” is no replacement for what has been lost, and it’s ironic that America’s racist heritage has contributed to its own loss of identity, taking pride in a skin color was perpetuated by the harsh treatment of those who did not share it.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    The moral degeneration of the West...
     
    Is the biggest issue in my book - the rot within is far more important than the external threats:
    "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

    Or put another way:
    "By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them." - reported in Bukhari

    Western civilation can sprint faster than all other runners but...leaves you out of breath after the first lap.
     
    A variation on Aesop's fable of profound wisdom; the hare doesn't lie down to sleep, instead he is sidelined with a sprain.

    Either way:
    Hare - 0
    Tortoise - 1

    Peace.
    , @Salger
    > The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left “white people” susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not

    Like how so many Muslims and Blacks engage in boy fucking or trying to violate foreign girls?

    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia#Muslim_Statistics_on_Pedophilia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#cite_note-stolt-153
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  82. @Ivan K.
    John Derbyshire:

    I’m a gentle soul ..... I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel .....
     
    Then why do you put up with the top image of this article?

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive .....
     
    Do you think Western Civilization endures in the top image's words:
    "THIS ISN'T A RAFT BOAT. IT'S PART OF AN INVASION FLEET" ?

    Yes. Western civilization survives only if we recognize those boats as an invasion in its scale, in its intent, and in its effect if not repulsed.

    Do you favor those “refugees” over my children in the struggle for scarce water, food, and land?
    I don’t .

    Anyone who wishes to help those people prevail over my children in their struggle for survival, safety, and perhaps a modicum of prosperity and freedom, is an enemy.

    You sound like someone who has no children — or is doing a terrible job protecting them and their future.

    Read More
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  83. @Dr. X

    There’s a lot of questions there, but I don’t have any answers. When I think about these things, all I can come up with is Lifeboat Ethics.

    ...Yes, that’s bleak, but who’s got anything else to say?
     
    I do.

    Who, actually—other than me—who is thinking about these issues?
     
    A lot of people, actually.

    ...I’m a gentle soul who wishes no harm to anyone. I’m sorry for those folk in the Sahel, in their poverty and hopelessness. They didn’t ask to be born there, any more than I asked to be born in the West. I got lucky and they didn’t. It’s a shame. It’s not fair. I entirely agree.

    At the same time, I very much want Western Civilization to survive; and I want my children and grandchildren to live in it, in peace and prosperity.

     

    Derb seems to think that the only alternative to the situation is "lifeboat ethics," which will be necessary to preserve Western Civilization, which he wants to be preserved.

    I disagree, though. There's another, very comprehensive alternative that he's ignoring: global communism. Now, let me be clear that I'm not personally advocating this alternative -- just pointing out that a lot of other people would advocate for it. We conservatives are often guilty of conflating communism with the Soviet Union, and when the USSR, collapsed, we assumed that communism died with it. It didn't.

    The "open borders" crowd is, essentially, communist. After all, it was Marx who said that the working man has got no country -- in other words, he was for open borders. As far as preserving Western Civilization, pretty much all of higher education and pop culture is against that. As these people migrate into politics, they'll invariably choose global interests over national ones. Just look at Obama -- the defining feature of his presidency is his hostility to Western traditions and his knee-jerk identification with all things of the Third World. Angela Merkel also comes to mind.

    So I would say that one needs to look at what one's enemies think, to understand all possible alternatives. And our enemies do not think that lifeboat ethics is inevitable; rather, they are entirely comfortable with some form of global socialism, and they will be more than willing to enforce it against the Western traditions of property rights and individual rights. Think of the black and brown Third Worders as a global lumpenproletariat seizing the wealth and the means of production from bourgeois whites, and you'll get an entirely different perspective.

    Um, yes, and that perspective rightly encourages us to defend ourselves and our children’s future from those hordes that have destroyed or made little of their own cultures and lands.

    People coming to take what we have, should be dealt with the same way THEY would deal with us coming to take whatever they have (or to irreversibly alter their culture and daily life for the worse).

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  84. @Corvinus
    "Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who’s had a some black friends.). Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it’s silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don’t care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent. So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality."

    You constructed yourself a mighty strawman there. Congratulations. This black or brown dude is quite aware of the realities of race and culture, of societal changes. They look at their own brethren, and as a person who is from the middle class, shakes their head and wonders why those in the hood can't simply "get it together". Their worldview also incorporates how some white people will never bring themselves to admit that their own prejudices stem from confirmation bias and indoctrination. Increasing numbers of people, especially millennials but regardless of color, over the past three decades skillfully handle racial relations. There remains major institutional concerns, and blacks and whites have bonded together to demonstrate that changes are required. Their tactics and suggestions I may personally question; nonetheless, the reality is that whites and blacks, despite their longstanding animosities, seek to bridge the gap between themselves.

    "1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter."

    In some cases, absolutely. But when it comes to IQ, the "race realists" focus exclusively on biological rather than take into account environment and history.

    "The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not."

    Corrected for accuracy --> Depending upon where one lives, there are people regardless of their race that demonstrate kindness and respect. Being "nice" is not a trait that is found more among white people than black people.

    "Don’t take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it’s why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods."

    Corrected for accuracy --> People live in neighborhoods that generally reflect their socio-economic standing. Affluent whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians share a common suspicion of their racial brethren who neglect to work hard and take advantage of their opportunities to better themselves financially.

    "2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy."

    This obsession with the West borders on mental illness. Remember, blacks and browns were doing just fine running their own societies. While their civilizations were not as technologically advanced, they were content with their own progress. That is, until the greedy European stuck their nose into their business for resources and territory.

    "The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three."

    Corrected for accuracy --> Multiculturalism the result of individuals who have common ties and interests.

    "3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own...Basically, there reply was they didn’t want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe."

    Religion, not race, is one's uniform.

    And poor people of different races will bound together, as history as shown.

    https://zinnedproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/stf_union_power.jpg

    "But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe."

    Safe from oppression. Safe from radicals pushing their False News Stories.

    We also wish that Europeans had not gotten entangled with or imported anyone from your ancestral lands, wherever they may be. Believe me.

    As for “whites aren’t any more kind than blacks”, you insult our intelligence. My actual decades of life experience living among all kinds of people, need not yield to your assertion.

    Who am I going to believe, you or my lying eyes and ears?

    Poverty, alleged lack of opportunity, and alleged racial bias, could account for disproportionate involvement in theft. We would all steal to survive or feed and clothe our children, if we are being honest.

    But poverty or the other factors — some real, some exaggerated or imagined — don’t explain the long history of Africans in the usa and Canada being disproportionately involved in sheer cruelty, inflicting pain and fear for fun, raping, torturing, and murdering.

    A tiny percentage of white people currently in the USA are descended from anyone who ever sold, bought, or harmed a slave. (For many, perhaps most, white Americans, our ancestors didn’t even come here until after slavery was abolished — for many of us, long after. Nor did our ancestors do a damn thing to yours here in the USA; they were persevering through discrimination, learning English, and working hard and fighting in this country’s stupid wars to prove ourselves.)

    By contrast, a huge percentage of Africans in the USA are involved in hurting, terrorizing, and trying to harm the rest of us, and laughing while they do it.

    My life has been enriched by my friendships and other relationships with people of various different racial and cultural backgrounds, including my own wife. Africans, with one major exception, not so much. And your attempts to equate your race with others in this regard, is an insult to the tens of millions of white (and now also Asian and hispanic) American victims of violence, cruelty, intimidation and degradation at the hands of Africans in our country.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "We also wish that Europeans had not gotten entangled with or imported anyone from your ancestral lands, wherever they may be. Believe me."

    I'm predominately Polish, with some German and Dutch. So thanks for noticing that the Russians and my fellow Germans decimated my people. I thought all whites stick together...guess not.

    "As for “whites aren’t any more kind than blacks”, you insult our intelligence."

    People are kind. People are cruel. Stating that one race compared to another race overall is more kind or more cruel is beyond the pale. What metrics are used here? What are the operational definitions of "kindness" and "cruelty"? What sociological studies have looked at this particular phenomenon? You can certainly look at matters from your own lens, but understand that you, and I, suffer from confirmation bias in some way, shape, and form.

    "But poverty or the other factors — some real, some exaggerated or imagined — don’t explain the long history of Africans in the usa and Canada being disproportionately involved in sheer cruelty, inflicting pain and fear for fun, raping, torturing, and murdering...By contrast, a huge percentage of Africans in the USA are involved in hurting, terrorizing, and trying to harm the rest of us, and laughing while they do it."

    Yes, the "proportional" and "percentage" arguments. Here is your daily dose of reality.

    http://www.timwise.org/2013/08/race-crime-and-statistical-malpractice-how-the-right-manipulates-white-fear-with-bogus-data/

    If we are going to throw statistics around, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, out of 460,128 violent crimes, 276,460 whites (including Hispanics) and 169,612 blacks were arrested. Violent crimes include murder and non negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. Raw numbers matter.

    "Nor did our ancestors do a damn thing to yours here in the USA; they were persevering through discrimination, learning English, and working hard and fighting in this country’s stupid wars to prove ourselves.)"

    I'm Polish, not black. And the darkies also had similar experiences as your ancestors.

    "My life has been enriched by my friendships and other relationships with people of various different racial and cultural backgrounds, including my own wife. Africans, with one major exception, not so much."

    You are making a wild generalization from your own personal experiences. From my own dealings, the majority of my interactions with "Africans" have been outright positive. Each person's dealings is unique. That doesn't mean since you had negative outcomes with blacks that all or most of this racial group are continually on the rampage.

    "And your attempts to equate your race with others in this regard, is an insult to the tens of millions of white (and now also Asian and hispanic) American victims of violence, cruelty, intimidation and degradation at the hands of Africans in our country."

    I only thought SJW's engaged in shaming tactics and playing the victim card. My bad.
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  85. Talha says:
    @Anon-og
    The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left "white people" susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not. Clutching to the empty identity of being "white" is no replacement for what has been lost, and it's ironic that America's racist heritage has contributed to its own loss of identity, taking pride in a skin color was perpetuated by the harsh treatment of those who did not share it.

    Hey Mike,

    The moral degeneration of the West…

    Is the biggest issue in my book – the rot within is far more important than the external threats:
    “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

    Or put another way:
    “By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them.” – reported in Bukhari

    Western civilation can sprint faster than all other runners but…leaves you out of breath after the first lap.

    A variation on Aesop’s fable of profound wisdom; the hare doesn’t lie down to sleep, instead he is sidelined with a sprain.

    Either way:
    Hare – 0
    Tortoise – 1

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    The moral degeneration of the West…

    Is the biggest issue in my book – the rot within is far more important than the external threats
     
    I totally agree.

    Those people in those boats are not the enemy. They present no threat at all to western civilisation. Any half decent coast guard could stop them entering Europe. They're not stopped because Europeans are not prepared to stop them. Europeans are not prepared to stop them because Western Europe is hopelessly decadent and morally degenerate, obsessed by virtue-signalling and self-hatred.

    Focusing on the immigrants, legal or illegal, is missing the point. Unless the West addresses what you quite rightly call the "rot within" then western civilisation will continue to lurch towards disaster. Feminism, the aggressive homosexual lobby, consumerism, mindless hedonism, atheism, nihilism - these are the signs of the rot within. If the rot is not reversed then western civilisation is finished.
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  86. 1rw says:
    @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Lots of theories that have been presented, but I'm not a 100% sure why. From what I can tell Western Christianity traded in the pre-eminence of religion in life to the material and emperical - it was a slow process and littered with quite a few bodies along the way. After Rosseau, Hume, Voltaire and others, basically the West is Post-Christian now. And when they took that route, wow, did they excel in it! Materially, they are magnificent in accomplishment - who can deny this?

    Spiritually, well...all of it depends on one's priorities; I'm not a 100% sure I want Muslims to go that route seeing what's at the end of it...not enough Kiergegaard:
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kierkegaard/

    Peace.

    Muslims aren’t spiritual. Don’t really see it. What are you talking about? Lol. Can’t lose what you don’t have. Islam is the straight jacket that keeps brown people from descending into complete goat screwing degeneracy. Under Islam, they only do it on Thursday. It’s about as spiritual as kinder garden for misbehaving dull children.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Muslims aren’t spiritual.
     
    Some certainly are not.

    Don’t really see it.
     
    Your lack of knowledge is irrelevant to the equation. Read up on Sufism:
    http://islam.uga.edu/Sufism.html

    https://www.amazon.com/Book-Wisdoms-Al-Hikam-Collection-Aphorisms/dp/1933764058/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264103&sr=8-1&keywords=ibn+ata+illah

    https://www.amazon.com/Sufi-Sage-Arabia-al-Haddad-Spiritual/dp/188775265X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264136&sr=8-9&keywords=haddad+imam

    https://www.amazon.com/Revealed-Grace-Juristic-Sirhindi-1564-1624/dp/1891785893/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264211&sr=8-1&keywords=ahmad+sirhindi

    Peace.

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  87. nsa says:

    At least get the terminology right….these are Death Boats, not Life Boats…..as in Death of the West.

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  88. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    How "high iq" are a people who passively allow Khazarian fake Jews to control their government and foreign policy lol. How "high iq" are a people who have traded in honor and wisdom for the Jewish value of being clever. I guess when it comes to being a hoe, you can take pride in being a smart one lol, but the bottom line is your still being pimped. How "high iq" are a people whose idea of "material progress" has been the only designator of progress while they have morally become a decadent people. The mechanization of the world has deemed the planet unlivable in 2 short centuries while the rest of the world has been able to live in it with no issues for thousands of years. Western civilation can sprint faster than all other runners but then again this isn't a sprint but a long distance run and you won't win the race when the speed you run breaks your ankles and leaves you out of breath after the first lap.

    Yes, the rest of the world has been able to live in poverty and famine for thousands of years. It would have continued doing so probably until the next Ice Age, freakishly large volcanic eruption or asteroid impact made traditional agriculture impossible and it’s curtains.

    Instead, we’ve gone and developed science and technology, such jerks

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    • Replies: @Anon-og
    Right, your myopic point of view reveals itself. Of course, everything was all shit until our time right? I guess the world was in poverty because we didn't drive cars and have apple phones lol. Clean air, clean water, beautiful cities, beautiful architecture, the remnants of which are still with us are still more beautiful than anything a modern city produces. The proof is in the pudding, modern civilization cannot live without destroying all other life, this isn't progress but monstrosity and looks like the earth is sizing us up for a total rejection of all things human.
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  89. neutral says:
    @Anonymous

    Or, they’ll wait, puzzled & compassionate, until the only way out is something close to mass extermination of demographic invaders (however inhumane this may sound) ?
     
    They'll wait. Complexity tends to resolve itself inexorably. Entropy is the preeminent natural process.

    I don’t think that many would argue with that, but the problem is when exactly this process will resolve itself ? Will whites have already gone extinct by the time that entropy fixes this unnatural state ?

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  90. Sean says:

    Real lifeboat ethics are instructive about human nature:-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Rooseboom

    Not a darn thing, so far as I can see.

    If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies win the civil war then there will be 10 million refugees coming to Europe as Putin as his puppet laugh up their sleeves.. No, we cannot leave this thing alone, and if we have to confront Russia then so be it. Stopping an invasion are what the hugely expensive millitary forces of the West are for. They must be used now.

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    • Replies: @Thirdeye

    If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies win the civil war then there will be 10 million refugees coming to Europe as Putin as his puppet laugh up their sleeves.
     
    Bullshit. Al Qaeda/ISIS are the ones displacing people and most of the displaced people stayed within Syria.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Sean, there will be a Hell of a lot more people fleeing Syria if, God forbid, the US-backed Islamists overthrow Assad's government. Such as every Christian left in that country and every Alawite left in the country, as both are targeted for particular horror and extermination under the Islamic State and like "rebels." We would also likely see the flight of many of the minority-sect or simply non-insane Muslims out of Syria, as well.

    Before this US / ISIS/ Israeli effort to overthrow Assad kicked in to high gear, was Europe getting such an overwhelming number of refugees from Syria?
    , @annamaria
    "If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad..."
    Why are you so agitated about the alleged dictatorial nature of Assad? The kingdom of Saud (the ultimate dictatorship), makes Israel's bosom buddy but this does not bother you at all, despite the Saudi's bloody support of liver eaters and head choppers.
    The Middle Eastern wars are the acknowledged cause of the waves of refugees (and sub-Saharan migrants with low IQ) to Europe. The wars have been run for the major war profiteers but the ideology of the US interventions in Iraq, Syria, and Libya was formulated by the US ziocons, the dreamers of Eretz Israel. The wars - and the waves of desperate refugees - are the tragic consequence of tribal viciousness.
    By the way, FOX news and other MSM presstituting sources of disinformation are not particularly honest about the civil war in Syria, specifically about Aleppo. Or, perhaps, you rely on the wisdom of Bellingcat (expert in selling the ladies underwear) or certain White Helmets (affiliates with Al Qaeda)? http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/20/the-white-helmets-black-record-vanessa-beeley-talks-to-rt-about-french-government-collusion-with-al-qaeda-linked-group/

    "...what the hugely expensive millitary forces of the West are for. They must be used now."
    Yes, in the ideal world, the US should disengage, ASAP, from the interventions in the Middle East and start helping Europe to protect itself from the African migrants, whereas the enormous money that the MIC is sacking out from the US should be allocated, as a new Marshall Plan, to restore the ruined secular states in the Middle East. This would stop the march of refugees and would make Israel behave reasonably.

    "...we have to confront Russia..."
    Who are these "we?" - Has not US had more than enough of the ziocons' bloody projects in the Middle East and Ukraine?

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  91. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @1rw
    Yes, the rest of the world has been able to live in poverty and famine for thousands of years. It would have continued doing so probably until the next Ice Age, freakishly large volcanic eruption or asteroid impact made traditional agriculture impossible and it's curtains.

    Instead, we've gone and developed science and technology, such jerks

    Right, your myopic point of view reveals itself. Of course, everything was all shit until our time right? I guess the world was in poverty because we didn’t drive cars and have apple phones lol. Clean air, clean water, beautiful cities, beautiful architecture, the remnants of which are still with us are still more beautiful than anything a modern city produces. The proof is in the pudding, modern civilization cannot live without destroying all other life, this isn’t progress but monstrosity and looks like the earth is sizing us up for a total rejection of all things human.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    The proof is in the pudding...
     
    Indeed - as I drive around Chicagoland, I am often stunned by the architecture of the old churches - such elegance, such beauty. Not so post-modern architecture or 'art' it is, as you said, a monstrosity.

    If you ever get a chance, read Neil Postman's excellent critique "Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology":
    https://www.amazon.com/Technopoly-Surrender-Technology-Neil-Postman/dp/0679745408/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264651&sr=8-1&keywords=technopoly

    You will not regret it.

    Peace.
    , @1rw
    The fact is that until technology allowed man to harness energy and mechanical motion other than that provided by muscles, civilization mostly ran on slaves. They weren't all enslaved completely, but in some way or other they were trapped on the bottom rung, obliged to work for masters. This was true in ancient Egypt, thru to mid 1800s. This is why the cotton and tobacco plantations of the US ran on slaves. The society could only support a small fraction of people who had the leisure and wherewithal to pursue knowledge, arts, etc... Everyone else had to work with their hands and back.

    Once we discovered steam and electric motors, and ways to harness energy trapped in coal, petroleum, and finally the atom, we could create a society where slavery is un-needed.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Surely there must be some middle ground between the largely technology-free idyllic world you portray and our current soul-less, atomized, low-trust, family-destroying societies?

    In that earlier idyllic world, by the way, great numbers of people died in agony of diseases and conditions that are today readily curable or treatable, often at a young age. Throw in the many women and babies who died in childbirth, and the diametric opposite of our high-tech society should not be what we're aiming for, either.
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  92. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:

    All this talk about blacks with big dongs and browns being more masculine is funny.

    White women love non-white men because these men still have some sort of identity to hold on to, nobody buys “white”as an identity, that’s more of catchall phrase for people who don’t know what else to identify with lol. Not to mention, being hung up over who has a higher iq is similar to white male infatuation with penis size lol. Those of us who don’t think so mechanically are the ones fucking your women and outsmarting you lol. Life is more grey than it is black and white.
    And on another note, American financing of Israel while the Jewish media disrespects Jesus Christ and Christian culture is really the biggest thing you cucks should be upset about lol. They have turned your religion into a racket for financing Israel and you gotta hand it to these Jews for being way more masculine than the rest of us. They make no secret of their disdain for your religion and do it all in plain sight like their Talmud dictates. They air it in all the tv and movies you watch while they have turned you and your children into perverted cuckolds through the pornography that they are at the forefront of. Reclaiming your country and identity starts with the internal journey of reclaiming your souls first. But that’s too challenging for most so what we really see here are a bunch of keyboard philosophers who only think about these issues between their fap sessions.

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    • Replies: @1rw
    What's your identity? You're coming down very hard on a non-identity. I'll guess you're African American. Is that right?
    , @Salger
    > White women love non-white men because these men still have some sort of identity to hold on to, nobody buys “white”as an identity, that’s more of catchall phrase for people who don’t know what else to identify with lol. Not to mention, being hung up over who has a higher iq is similar to white male infatuation with penis size lol. Those of us who don’t think so mechanically are the ones fucking your women and outsmarting you lol.

    You sound like a mud.

    By the way, acceptable studies show that White women who aren't below standard in physical attractiveness, below average in intelligence, and aren't deranged aren't especially attracted to Blacks and other muds. Even East Asian men outperform Blacks. See these for more:

    http://time.com/3302251/9-ugly-truths-big-data-ok-cupid-book/
    http://www.thegrio.com/specials/life-and-style/study-reveals-racial-segregation-in-online-dating.php
    http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/racialPreferences.pdf
    http://paa2008.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=80046
    http://qz.com/149342/the-uncomfortable-racial-preferences-revealed-by-online-dating/
    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/
    http://www.as.miami.edu/personal/cklofstad/15_mate_choice_PB.pdf
    https://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/
    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2013/07/white-skin-privilege.html

    Bonus:

    http://8ch.net/polarchive/res/749.html#q1387

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  93. Talha says:
    @1rw
    Muslims aren't spiritual. Don't really see it. What are you talking about? Lol. Can't lose what you don't have. Islam is the straight jacket that keeps brown people from descending into complete goat screwing degeneracy. Under Islam, they only do it on Thursday. It's about as spiritual as kinder garden for misbehaving dull children.
    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    By their fruits ye shall know them

    Yesterday Muslims performed the spiritual acts of ramming a truck into a Christmas market in Berlin and gunning down the Russian Ambassador to Turkey. Merely because some sect of Mohammedans likes to get high and spin until they fall from vertigo does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels. Islam was born as a tool of conquest, and it continues as such.

    A Carthagenean Peace to you.
    , @Anon-og
    You won't be able to convince the stupid, Talha. Islam today poses the biggest threat to Zionists and the powers that be exactly because it still retains its spiritual center meaning it is not a neutered religion like Christianity has unfortunately become in the West. Western capitalists salivate at the thought of being able to bring the brothels, pornography, and all other vices they have degenerated their own masses with to Muslim countries but are discouraged because "those crazed muslims" still have enough fight in them to resist it. Not to say that corruption is not getting the best of Muslims as well, it definitely is. But the spiritual center of Islam is still in tact and most Muslims still take their religion serious enough to live by it. In fact, the Muslims I know respect Christianity much more than Christians do. Their regard for Jesus and the Virgin Mary has surprised me on many occasions and even the way they treat the Holy Bible by wrapping it and placing it in high places like they do the Quran says something of the vibrancy within Islam. The most devout American Christians today are Evangelics, a confused lot of people who Israel worship more than they God worship and whose moral bankruptcy in the form of full throttle support of Israel contradicts the Christian spirit as they ignore and fully support what the Khazar fake Jews are doing to true Semites.
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  94. Talha says:
    @Anon-og
    Right, your myopic point of view reveals itself. Of course, everything was all shit until our time right? I guess the world was in poverty because we didn't drive cars and have apple phones lol. Clean air, clean water, beautiful cities, beautiful architecture, the remnants of which are still with us are still more beautiful than anything a modern city produces. The proof is in the pudding, modern civilization cannot live without destroying all other life, this isn't progress but monstrosity and looks like the earth is sizing us up for a total rejection of all things human.

    Hey Mike,

    The proof is in the pudding…

    Indeed – as I drive around Chicagoland, I am often stunned by the architecture of the old churches – such elegance, such beauty. Not so post-modern architecture or ‘art’ it is, as you said, a monstrosity.

    If you ever get a chance, read Neil Postman’s excellent critique “Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology”:

    https://www.amazon.com/Technopoly-Surrender-Technology-Neil-Postman/dp/0679745408/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264651&sr=8-1&keywords=technopoly

    You will not regret it.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    I will check it out Talha, and you check this out when you get a chance:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Geo5ExqbsrQ

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-lZJKms_hg

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6Asao85VeS-RpIvLByX1BT5Cxw1qcWeF&v=4AMwCZmdC_U
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  95. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:

    White nationalism might work if there is a spiritual center to it. Any philosophy that asks nothing of its followers but rather devotes its energy to explaining everything as a problem that someone else is responsible for is a docile philosophy that can never become powerful enough to create change. In this sense, white nationalism is similar to Black Lives matter. Love or hate the Black Panthers, but they were actually doing things within their community and they realized that the movement started with self. Hitler himself came from a devout Catholic upbringing and although not technically religious, he had a strong belief in God and he instilled in his Germans a sense of self sufficiency that started with discipline and sacrifice. Some of you Americans believe you are of the same stock as Hitler’s Germans because you share the same skin color, if only it was that simple lol. The victim mentality that you accuse blacks of, you are also guilty of.

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  96. Truth says:
    @Talha
    Hey Truth,

    Bigger than the escalation to global thermonuclear war?
     
    Yeah, you'd think that one wouldn't have snuck under the radar, but I guess boat people are the biggest scare - apparently something that can be dealt with by any third rate coast guard (or given the political will to stop the handouts). Political will doesn't stop an ICBM from obliterating your capital city though just because Washington and Moscow can't keep it in their pants.

    Speaking of population/depopulation - ain't nobody as good at populating and depopulating Europe like Europeans - let me tell ya!

    I guess it'll be WWIII? Can't have a sound trilogy without the third installment.

    Peace.

    Well, he is the genius here, maybe we’re misinformed.

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  97. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    Right, your myopic point of view reveals itself. Of course, everything was all shit until our time right? I guess the world was in poverty because we didn't drive cars and have apple phones lol. Clean air, clean water, beautiful cities, beautiful architecture, the remnants of which are still with us are still more beautiful than anything a modern city produces. The proof is in the pudding, modern civilization cannot live without destroying all other life, this isn't progress but monstrosity and looks like the earth is sizing us up for a total rejection of all things human.

    The fact is that until technology allowed man to harness energy and mechanical motion other than that provided by muscles, civilization mostly ran on slaves. They weren’t all enslaved completely, but in some way or other they were trapped on the bottom rung, obliged to work for masters. This was true in ancient Egypt, thru to mid 1800s. This is why the cotton and tobacco plantations of the US ran on slaves. The society could only support a small fraction of people who had the leisure and wherewithal to pursue knowledge, arts, etc… Everyone else had to work with their hands and back.

    Once we discovered steam and electric motors, and ways to harness energy trapped in coal, petroleum, and finally the atom, we could create a society where slavery is un-needed.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    Not much has changed, the impulse to enslave is still there , except machines put white people in factories to man these machines along with a small percentage of blacks. Now the machines enslave us or rather, scrupulous men are still enslaving their brothers but the slavery is more subtle. Our philosophical shift started with
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  98. 1rw says:
    @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Muslims aren’t spiritual.
     
    Some certainly are not.

    Don’t really see it.
     
    Your lack of knowledge is irrelevant to the equation. Read up on Sufism:
    http://islam.uga.edu/Sufism.html

    https://www.amazon.com/Book-Wisdoms-Al-Hikam-Collection-Aphorisms/dp/1933764058/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264103&sr=8-1&keywords=ibn+ata+illah

    https://www.amazon.com/Sufi-Sage-Arabia-al-Haddad-Spiritual/dp/188775265X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264136&sr=8-9&keywords=haddad+imam

    https://www.amazon.com/Revealed-Grace-Juristic-Sirhindi-1564-1624/dp/1891785893/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264211&sr=8-1&keywords=ahmad+sirhindi

    Peace.

    By their fruits ye shall know them

    Yesterday Muslims performed the spiritual acts of ramming a truck into a Christmas market in Berlin and gunning down the Russian Ambassador to Turkey. Merely because some sect of Mohammedans likes to get high and spin until they fall from vertigo does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels. Islam was born as a tool of conquest, and it continues as such.

    A Carthagenean Peace to you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    Right, and wasn't it just yesterday that Europeans murdered more people in two World Wars than had been killed before all together. Don't worry, no one is stupid enough to judge all Europeans for that or for the genocide of the whole Western Hemisphere or for actually using nuclear bombs on people and of course we all know those crimes are far worse than anything a few extremists commit when they kill. And by the way, you shit on 3 sovereign Muslim countries in 5 years and expect there not to be a few crazy incidents? America should look like Post war Vietnam or Iraq considering all the terrorism it has exported
    , @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Yes - those are the non-spiritual ones - remember?


    does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels
     
    Correct, just like you treating your wife with respect doesn't necessarily stop some other White guy from beating his to a bloody pulp. Each have moral agency. Do me a favor and list the institutions or scholars of any repute in the Muslim world that consider those recent acts to be anything but murder and treachery - I await your lengthy list.

    We seem to be having a serious problem with our Salafi/Wahabbi extremists - they have also butchered fellow Muslims far more than non-Muslims. We're dealing with them; it took us a while to get here, might take a little while to get out. In the meantime, kindly send a note to Western governments to not destabilize any more Muslim countries and send our extremists weapons - it does not help our efforts.

    Peace.

    , @anonymous
    Read up on Cromwell sometime. Muslims by no means have a monopoly on murderous lunatic fanaticism. They just seem to have more of a tendency towards it, especially at present. Reds of the millenarian sort are much worse, but luckily also much less common.

    By the way, there are also militant Sufis nowadays. Isn't it funny how this sort of thing works?
    , @RadicalCenter
    Perfectly said, 1rw. Talha might truly be a peaceful and good guy, who knows. But his religion is inherently and in practice not so, and we can't deceive ourselves with wishful thinking.
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  99. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    All this talk about blacks with big dongs and browns being more masculine is funny.

    White women love non-white men because these men still have some sort of identity to hold on to, nobody buys "white"as an identity, that's more of catchall phrase for people who don't know what else to identify with lol. Not to mention, being hung up over who has a higher iq is similar to white male infatuation with penis size lol. Those of us who don't think so mechanically are the ones fucking your women and outsmarting you lol. Life is more grey than it is black and white.
    And on another note, American financing of Israel while the Jewish media disrespects Jesus Christ and Christian culture is really the biggest thing you cucks should be upset about lol. They have turned your religion into a racket for financing Israel and you gotta hand it to these Jews for being way more masculine than the rest of us. They make no secret of their disdain for your religion and do it all in plain sight like their Talmud dictates. They air it in all the tv and movies you watch while they have turned you and your children into perverted cuckolds through the pornography that they are at the forefront of. Reclaiming your country and identity starts with the internal journey of reclaiming your souls first. But that's too challenging for most so what we really see here are a bunch of keyboard philosophers who only think about these issues between their fap sessions.

    What’s your identity? You’re coming down very hard on a non-identity. I’ll guess you’re African American. Is that right?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    Would it pain you more if I was black or white?
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  100. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Muslims aren’t spiritual.
     
    Some certainly are not.

    Don’t really see it.
     
    Your lack of knowledge is irrelevant to the equation. Read up on Sufism:
    http://islam.uga.edu/Sufism.html

    https://www.amazon.com/Book-Wisdoms-Al-Hikam-Collection-Aphorisms/dp/1933764058/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264103&sr=8-1&keywords=ibn+ata+illah

    https://www.amazon.com/Sufi-Sage-Arabia-al-Haddad-Spiritual/dp/188775265X/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264136&sr=8-9&keywords=haddad+imam

    https://www.amazon.com/Revealed-Grace-Juristic-Sirhindi-1564-1624/dp/1891785893/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264211&sr=8-1&keywords=ahmad+sirhindi

    Peace.

    You won’t be able to convince the stupid, Talha. Islam today poses the biggest threat to Zionists and the powers that be exactly because it still retains its spiritual center meaning it is not a neutered religion like Christianity has unfortunately become in the West. Western capitalists salivate at the thought of being able to bring the brothels, pornography, and all other vices they have degenerated their own masses with to Muslim countries but are discouraged because “those crazed muslims” still have enough fight in them to resist it. Not to say that corruption is not getting the best of Muslims as well, it definitely is. But the spiritual center of Islam is still in tact and most Muslims still take their religion serious enough to live by it. In fact, the Muslims I know respect Christianity much more than Christians do. Their regard for Jesus and the Virgin Mary has surprised me on many occasions and even the way they treat the Holy Bible by wrapping it and placing it in high places like they do the Quran says something of the vibrancy within Islam. The most devout American Christians today are Evangelics, a confused lot of people who Israel worship more than they God worship and whose moral bankruptcy in the form of full throttle support of Israel contradicts the Christian spirit as they ignore and fully support what the Khazar fake Jews are doing to true Semites.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    Much respect.

    even the way they treat the Holy Bible by wrapping it and placing it in high places like they do the Quran says something of the vibrancy within Islam
     
    Yes, I remember distinctly placing my little copy of the Psalms or other Bible portions up on my high shelf when Christian groups would hand them out after high school. I was shocked when some people told me they would take their Bible into the bathroom to read on the toilet!!!

    Anyway - I really hope you have success in waking up your fellow Christians into becoming serious about their faith - not some pseudo-materialist understanding that is a shell of that former vibrant faith.
    "And be not as those who forgot God, and so He caused them to forget themselves; those - they are the transgressors." 59:19

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTPQly3c6uo&feature=youtu.be&t=3m15s

    Peace and may God preserve you and your family with honor.
    , @1rw
    Modern militant Islam today is not a threat to but a tool of Israel and the US. If it were a seen as a threat to Zionism, the US would not be destabilizing/destroying secular Arab states such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt and would instead be putting pressure on the Saudis, who finance Wahhabism and openly threaten others, such as Russia, with terror attacks.

    Indeed, Islamic militants are an important tool in the arsenal of US and their Zionist puppet masters'.

    And upon analysis, there is little Islam can do to either short term. Israel is perfectly capable of staying acceptably safe by practicing sensible security measures against any would be terrorists, including physical separation . The US is far removed geographically. While security is not perfect, neither country can be forced to make policy based on what the terrorists want. The same cannot be said for countries which have large, stupid, "devout" populations of muslims. Perhaps that is why Europe must admit these people, so that State Department can have yet another lever on the occupied Europeans?

    If there is an actual threat to Zionism, it is Russia and China, with their nuclear weapons, capable conventional forces, relatively advanced economies, and sense of sovereignty. Tell me what have Muhammedans prevented the US from doing lately? In contrast, Russia has foiled US plans in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria. No new NATO base in the former two. Assad continues to reign in the latter and looks set to win the civil war. When Muslims offend the US or Israel, neither hesitates to drop bombs and launch missiles, careless of bystanders. When Russia spoiled the US plans, all it got was economic sanctions and whined at.

    I understand that these things are both hard to understanding for you, but that's the way it actually is.
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  101. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    The proof is in the pudding...
     
    Indeed - as I drive around Chicagoland, I am often stunned by the architecture of the old churches - such elegance, such beauty. Not so post-modern architecture or 'art' it is, as you said, a monstrosity.

    If you ever get a chance, read Neil Postman's excellent critique "Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology":
    https://www.amazon.com/Technopoly-Surrender-Technology-Neil-Postman/dp/0679745408/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482264651&sr=8-1&keywords=technopoly

    You will not regret it.

    Peace.
    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    Sweet! Dr. Nasr - very good stuff!

    Much obliged for the links! I leave you with a beautiful quote of Dr. Nasr that adorns the intro pages of a 14th century manual of sacred law I have on my shelf:
    "In accordance with the real nature of things, it is the human that must conform to the Divine and not the Divine to the human."

    Peace.
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  102. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @1rw
    By their fruits ye shall know them

    Yesterday Muslims performed the spiritual acts of ramming a truck into a Christmas market in Berlin and gunning down the Russian Ambassador to Turkey. Merely because some sect of Mohammedans likes to get high and spin until they fall from vertigo does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels. Islam was born as a tool of conquest, and it continues as such.

    A Carthagenean Peace to you.

    Right, and wasn’t it just yesterday that Europeans murdered more people in two World Wars than had been killed before all together. Don’t worry, no one is stupid enough to judge all Europeans for that or for the genocide of the whole Western Hemisphere or for actually using nuclear bombs on people and of course we all know those crimes are far worse than anything a few extremists commit when they kill. And by the way, you shit on 3 sovereign Muslim countries in 5 years and expect there not to be a few crazy incidents? America should look like Post war Vietnam or Iraq considering all the terrorism it has exported

    Read More
    • Replies: @Salger
    >Right, and wasn’t it just yesterday that Europeans murdered more people in two World Wars than had been killed before all together.

    The Mongol conquests were well within the ballpark of the world wars accounting for population.

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2015/11/blaming-capitalism-for-virtually.html

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2013/02/was-20th-century-really-most-violent.html

    And primitive warfare is also more deadly than civilization's warfare:

    https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/no-hunter-gatherers-were-not-peaceful-paragons-of-gender-equality/

    >Don’t worry, no one is stupid enough to judge all Europeans for that or for the genocide of the whole Western Hemisphere

    The Siberian Americans butchered each-other and Whites. And their depopulation was largely from plague instead of organized slaughter :

    https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/47655-youtube-the-truth-about-the-native-american-genocide/

    https://www.therightstuff.biz/2015/11/27/new-europe-radio-episode-2-thanksgiving-slapdash/

    https://motherboard.vice.com/read/uncontacted-tribes-die-instantly-after-we-meet-them

    https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/repost-the-smallpox-infected-blankets/

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/9113-comanche-indians-and-the-myth-of-the-noble-savage/

    >or for actually using nuclear bombs on people

    The atomic bombs pushed the Japanese government to surrender and submit to Allied authority before the island either got a full Allied invasion or got starved into submission. The Japanese war effort inflicted war crimes in the Orient well in excess of Japanese casualties from the bombings . The harping on the atomic bombings is thanks to Anti-White/Anti-West/Lefty revisionists and Japanese schemers using the bombings to divert focus away from Japanese antics. For more on the subject:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Haf2g1mbsH8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"robert+p.+newman"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOk4zljYrRAhWrhFQKHUJiCWwQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=myth&f=false

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=61F843C8C41FF2407D039A627C683786

    >and of course we all know those crimes are far worse than anything a few extremists commit when they kill.

    https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/islamic-india-the-biggest-holocaust-in-world-history-whitewashed-from-history/

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  103. Talha says:
    @1rw
    By their fruits ye shall know them

    Yesterday Muslims performed the spiritual acts of ramming a truck into a Christmas market in Berlin and gunning down the Russian Ambassador to Turkey. Merely because some sect of Mohammedans likes to get high and spin until they fall from vertigo does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels. Islam was born as a tool of conquest, and it continues as such.

    A Carthagenean Peace to you.

    Hey 1rw,

    Yes – those are the non-spiritual ones – remember?

    does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels

    Correct, just like you treating your wife with respect doesn’t necessarily stop some other White guy from beating his to a bloody pulp. Each have moral agency. Do me a favor and list the institutions or scholars of any repute in the Muslim world that consider those recent acts to be anything but murder and treachery – I await your lengthy list.

    We seem to be having a serious problem with our Salafi/Wahabbi extremists – they have also butchered fellow Muslims far more than non-Muslims. We’re dealing with them; it took us a while to get here, might take a little while to get out. In the meantime, kindly send a note to Western governments to not destabilize any more Muslim countries and send our extremists weapons – it does not help our efforts.

    Peace.

    Read More
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  104. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:

    Speaking of Germany, the wholesale rape of that nation by the Allied powers(white people) doesn’t make your race savage to you but what a few extremists created either directly or indirectly by the West indicts a religion of almost 2 billion followers? I see a real trend here because the Allied powers are still raping and pillaging today, except they have their target set on the Middle East and the mayhem they create is on full display for all to see. Muslims are by and large the biggest victims of this savagery and as usual, the victim is blamed…

    the Germans were an inherently evil people when they were in your way.

    The Russians are an inherently evil people because they are in your way.

    The Native Americans were savages and an inherently evil people because they were in your way.

    And now, of course, the Muslims are an inherently evil people because they are in your way

    Not a peep about evil Islam when you were hunting for Red October these last few decades lol, now all of a sudden it’s a savage religion that always been savage LOL

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    You're right, neither Germans nor Russians were or are inherently evil.

    Wish we had stayed out of both WW1 and WW2, and certainly wish we were not interfering in Muslim countries and bombing / droning them for no good defensive reason.

    But we will be wise to keep islam out of our countries.
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  105. Talha says:
    @Anon-og
    I will check it out Talha, and you check this out when you get a chance:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Geo5ExqbsrQ

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-lZJKms_hg

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL6Asao85VeS-RpIvLByX1BT5Cxw1qcWeF&v=4AMwCZmdC_U

    Hey Mike,

    Sweet! Dr. Nasr – very good stuff!

    Much obliged for the links! I leave you with a beautiful quote of Dr. Nasr that adorns the intro pages of a 14th century manual of sacred law I have on my shelf:
    “In accordance with the real nature of things, it is the human that must conform to the Divine and not the Divine to the human.”

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    Yes maam, I have been an ardent follower of much of what he says for years now.
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  106. anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @1rw
    By their fruits ye shall know them

    Yesterday Muslims performed the spiritual acts of ramming a truck into a Christmas market in Berlin and gunning down the Russian Ambassador to Turkey. Merely because some sect of Mohammedans likes to get high and spin until they fall from vertigo does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels. Islam was born as a tool of conquest, and it continues as such.

    A Carthagenean Peace to you.

    Read up on Cromwell sometime. Muslims by no means have a monopoly on murderous lunatic fanaticism. They just seem to have more of a tendency towards it, especially at present. Reds of the millenarian sort are much worse, but luckily also much less common.

    By the way, there are also militant Sufis nowadays. Isn’t it funny how this sort of thing works?

    Read More
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  107. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @1rw
    What's your identity? You're coming down very hard on a non-identity. I'll guess you're African American. Is that right?

    Would it pain you more if I was black or white?

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    Mystery meat it is
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  108. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @1rw
    The fact is that until technology allowed man to harness energy and mechanical motion other than that provided by muscles, civilization mostly ran on slaves. They weren't all enslaved completely, but in some way or other they were trapped on the bottom rung, obliged to work for masters. This was true in ancient Egypt, thru to mid 1800s. This is why the cotton and tobacco plantations of the US ran on slaves. The society could only support a small fraction of people who had the leisure and wherewithal to pursue knowledge, arts, etc... Everyone else had to work with their hands and back.

    Once we discovered steam and electric motors, and ways to harness energy trapped in coal, petroleum, and finally the atom, we could create a society where slavery is un-needed.

    Not much has changed, the impulse to enslave is still there , except machines put white people in factories to man these machines along with a small percentage of blacks. Now the machines enslave us or rather, scrupulous men are still enslaving their brothers but the slavery is more subtle. Our philosophical shift started with

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    The machines put the equivalent labor of hundreds of slaves at the disposal of each citizen of a technological society. I am not talking in the abstract, I refer to physical, grinding slavery that reduces man to a machine.
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  109. Corvinus says:
    @RadicalCenter
    We also wish that Europeans had not gotten entangled with or imported anyone from your ancestral lands, wherever they may be. Believe me.

    As for "whites aren't any more kind than blacks", you insult our intelligence. My actual decades of life experience living among all kinds of people, need not yield to your assertion.

    Who am I going to believe, you or my lying eyes and ears?

    Poverty, alleged lack of opportunity, and alleged racial bias, could account for disproportionate involvement in theft. We would all steal to survive or feed and clothe our children, if we are being honest.

    But poverty or the other factors -- some real, some exaggerated or imagined -- don't explain the long history of Africans in the usa and Canada being disproportionately involved in sheer cruelty, inflicting pain and fear for fun, raping, torturing, and murdering.

    A tiny percentage of white people currently in the USA are descended from anyone who ever sold, bought, or harmed a slave. (For many, perhaps most, white Americans, our ancestors didn't even come here until after slavery was abolished -- for many of us, long after. Nor did our ancestors do a damn thing to yours here in the USA; they were persevering through discrimination, learning English, and working hard and fighting in this country's stupid wars to prove ourselves.)

    By contrast, a huge percentage of Africans in the USA are involved in hurting, terrorizing, and trying to harm the rest of us, and laughing while they do it.

    My life has been enriched by my friendships and other relationships with people of various different racial and cultural backgrounds, including my own wife. Africans, with one major exception, not so much. And your attempts to equate your race with others in this regard, is an insult to the tens of millions of white (and now also Asian and hispanic) American victims of violence, cruelty, intimidation and degradation at the hands of Africans in our country.

    “We also wish that Europeans had not gotten entangled with or imported anyone from your ancestral lands, wherever they may be. Believe me.”

    I’m predominately Polish, with some German and Dutch. So thanks for noticing that the Russians and my fellow Germans decimated my people. I thought all whites stick together…guess not.

    “As for “whites aren’t any more kind than blacks”, you insult our intelligence.”

    People are kind. People are cruel. Stating that one race compared to another race overall is more kind or more cruel is beyond the pale. What metrics are used here? What are the operational definitions of “kindness” and “cruelty”? What sociological studies have looked at this particular phenomenon? You can certainly look at matters from your own lens, but understand that you, and I, suffer from confirmation bias in some way, shape, and form.

    “But poverty or the other factors — some real, some exaggerated or imagined — don’t explain the long history of Africans in the usa and Canada being disproportionately involved in sheer cruelty, inflicting pain and fear for fun, raping, torturing, and murdering…By contrast, a huge percentage of Africans in the USA are involved in hurting, terrorizing, and trying to harm the rest of us, and laughing while they do it.”

    Yes, the “proportional” and “percentage” arguments. Here is your daily dose of reality.

    http://www.timwise.org/2013/08/race-crime-and-statistical-malpractice-how-the-right-manipulates-white-fear-with-bogus-data/

    If we are going to throw statistics around, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, out of 460,128 violent crimes, 276,460 whites (including Hispanics) and 169,612 blacks were arrested. Violent crimes include murder and non negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. Raw numbers matter.

    “Nor did our ancestors do a damn thing to yours here in the USA; they were persevering through discrimination, learning English, and working hard and fighting in this country’s stupid wars to prove ourselves.)”

    I’m Polish, not black. And the darkies also had similar experiences as your ancestors.

    “My life has been enriched by my friendships and other relationships with people of various different racial and cultural backgrounds, including my own wife. Africans, with one major exception, not so much.”

    You are making a wild generalization from your own personal experiences. From my own dealings, the majority of my interactions with “Africans” have been outright positive. Each person’s dealings is unique. That doesn’t mean since you had negative outcomes with blacks that all or most of this racial group are continually on the rampage.

    “And your attempts to equate your race with others in this regard, is an insult to the tens of millions of white (and now also Asian and hispanic) American victims of violence, cruelty, intimidation and degradation at the hands of Africans in our country.”

    I only thought SJW’s engaged in shaming tactics and playing the victim card. My bad.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Corvinus, you wrote, referring to yourself, "this brown or black guy." Sorry I missed the apparently intended sarcasm.

    I stand by everything that I wrote. When my people and other innocent people are victimized by violence, intimidation, and degradation on such a massive scale and with such regularity by Africans in this country, I'm proud to point it out, work against it, and condemn people who deny it's happening or make excuses for it.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Wow Corvinus. Zinn's dishonesty wasn't enough. You have to cite professional hater Tim Wise. The same said "you are not worth saving" regarding white men, in his post:

    http://www.timwise.org/2010/11/an-open-letter-to-the-white-right-on-the-occasion-of-your-recent-successful-temper-tantrum/

    So, Corvinus, do you consider yourself unworthy of being saved? Because your BFF Tim Wise wants to dance on your grave.
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  110. Talha says:
    @Anon-og
    You won't be able to convince the stupid, Talha. Islam today poses the biggest threat to Zionists and the powers that be exactly because it still retains its spiritual center meaning it is not a neutered religion like Christianity has unfortunately become in the West. Western capitalists salivate at the thought of being able to bring the brothels, pornography, and all other vices they have degenerated their own masses with to Muslim countries but are discouraged because "those crazed muslims" still have enough fight in them to resist it. Not to say that corruption is not getting the best of Muslims as well, it definitely is. But the spiritual center of Islam is still in tact and most Muslims still take their religion serious enough to live by it. In fact, the Muslims I know respect Christianity much more than Christians do. Their regard for Jesus and the Virgin Mary has surprised me on many occasions and even the way they treat the Holy Bible by wrapping it and placing it in high places like they do the Quran says something of the vibrancy within Islam. The most devout American Christians today are Evangelics, a confused lot of people who Israel worship more than they God worship and whose moral bankruptcy in the form of full throttle support of Israel contradicts the Christian spirit as they ignore and fully support what the Khazar fake Jews are doing to true Semites.

    Hey Mike,

    Much respect.

    even the way they treat the Holy Bible by wrapping it and placing it in high places like they do the Quran says something of the vibrancy within Islam

    Yes, I remember distinctly placing my little copy of the Psalms or other Bible portions up on my high shelf when Christian groups would hand them out after high school. I was shocked when some people told me they would take their Bible into the bathroom to read on the toilet!!!

    Anyway – I really hope you have success in waking up your fellow Christians into becoming serious about their faith – not some pseudo-materialist understanding that is a shell of that former vibrant faith.
    “And be not as those who forgot God, and so He caused them to forget themselves; those – they are the transgressors.” 59:19

    Peace and may God preserve you and your family with honor.

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  111. Svigor says:

    JayMan the shitbird has banned me from commenting on his blog, so I’ll put my comment here:

    http://www.unz.com/jman/clannishness-the-series-how-it-happened/

    I have to point out that nowhere in any of these pieces:

    “Ethnic Genetic Interests” Do Not Exist (Neither Does Group Selection)
    Ethnic Genetic Interests and Group Selection Does Exist: A Reply to JayMan
    Genetic Similarity Theory

    Did I see any quote of Salter, or anyone else, as to what is meant by the term, “Ethnic Genetic Interests.” There isn’t even a quote in the Wikipedia entry on the book in which Salter introduces the term:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Genetic_Interests

    I also noted that JayMan didn’t respond to the substantial responses, so his characterization of the matter as closed is erroneous.

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  112. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    You won't be able to convince the stupid, Talha. Islam today poses the biggest threat to Zionists and the powers that be exactly because it still retains its spiritual center meaning it is not a neutered religion like Christianity has unfortunately become in the West. Western capitalists salivate at the thought of being able to bring the brothels, pornography, and all other vices they have degenerated their own masses with to Muslim countries but are discouraged because "those crazed muslims" still have enough fight in them to resist it. Not to say that corruption is not getting the best of Muslims as well, it definitely is. But the spiritual center of Islam is still in tact and most Muslims still take their religion serious enough to live by it. In fact, the Muslims I know respect Christianity much more than Christians do. Their regard for Jesus and the Virgin Mary has surprised me on many occasions and even the way they treat the Holy Bible by wrapping it and placing it in high places like they do the Quran says something of the vibrancy within Islam. The most devout American Christians today are Evangelics, a confused lot of people who Israel worship more than they God worship and whose moral bankruptcy in the form of full throttle support of Israel contradicts the Christian spirit as they ignore and fully support what the Khazar fake Jews are doing to true Semites.

    Modern militant Islam today is not a threat to but a tool of Israel and the US. If it were a seen as a threat to Zionism, the US would not be destabilizing/destroying secular Arab states such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt and would instead be putting pressure on the Saudis, who finance Wahhabism and openly threaten others, such as Russia, with terror attacks.

    Indeed, Islamic militants are an important tool in the arsenal of US and their Zionist puppet masters’.

    And upon analysis, there is little Islam can do to either short term. Israel is perfectly capable of staying acceptably safe by practicing sensible security measures against any would be terrorists, including physical separation . The US is far removed geographically. While security is not perfect, neither country can be forced to make policy based on what the terrorists want. The same cannot be said for countries which have large, stupid, “devout” populations of muslims. Perhaps that is why Europe must admit these people, so that State Department can have yet another lever on the occupied Europeans?

    If there is an actual threat to Zionism, it is Russia and China, with their nuclear weapons, capable conventional forces, relatively advanced economies, and sense of sovereignty. Tell me what have Muhammedans prevented the US from doing lately? In contrast, Russia has foiled US plans in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria. No new NATO base in the former two. Assad continues to reign in the latter and looks set to win the civil war. When Muslims offend the US or Israel, neither hesitates to drop bombs and launch missiles, careless of bystanders. When Russia spoiled the US plans, all it got was economic sanctions and whined at.

    I understand that these things are both hard to understanding for you, but that’s the way it actually is.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    As you said, Militant Islam is a tool of Zionism and this is exactly so because of the problem that true Islam poses for Zionism. To set a perversion of the religion and give it a name like the Islamic State says everything and of course comes from the architects and owners of the Jewish State. China and Russia are also targets but the Islamic nations in Israel's backyard are the closer, easier to defeat enemy for now, not to mention, the Israelis enjoying kicking people when they are down, and would rather use Americans as cannon fodder for their more serious wars. Putin has been smart to revive Russian Orthodox Christianity in his motherland because without an immune system, one is more susceptible to Zionist tricknology. Zionists want you to lose your religion but they never do theirs, there is a reason for that.

    And lets not talk of stupidity, your internal affairs have been hijacked by the enemies of your nations who use your population to fight their wars. Your wives, daughters, and even grannies(grannyporn lol) have been slutted out and dishonored by Jews in your full view and you don't have the intelligence, will or backbone to fight it, instead your tax dollars continue to go to Israel and you cant mobilize, organize or unify enough to elect politicians that can do your bidding even though you are the majority of the population. That's what I call STUPID, but even worse than stupid is docile, impotent and ineffective.

    , @Anon-og
    Compare Russia's reaction to U.S. sanctions to Iran's reaction to U.S. sanctions, both just further developed alternate routes and so we have BRICS etc.
    Your dubious comparison of the muslim reaction to war versus the Russian reaction to sanctions omits the fact that no part of Russia has ever been invaded by Americans and the last time that the Europeans attempted, the Russians did much more than kill a couple of thousand people in a world trade center bombing. With Allied help, they destroyed Germany, that's not terrorism but a just reaction to Western aggression lol but a few lone muslims who throw pebbles at the bloody empire are terrorists
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  113. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:

    Not much has changed, the impulse to enslave is still there , except machines took white people out of farms and into factories to man these machines. We are enslaved by the machines we work and the cities and transportation that bring us our food, probably a step back from the self reliance that living off the land gave people. Of course, right at this moment, all is well in Babylon and the trucks keep moving in and out. But obviously, at some point, when something disrupts this process, cities with multi-million person populations will see the kind of hell our civilization has inflicted on many others and it maybe that at that time, people will wish they knew the ways of their ancestors.

    [MORE]

    “There is thus no difficulty in seeing how far removed true craft is
    from modern industry, so much so that the two are as it were oppo-
    sites, and how far it is unhappily true that in the ‘reign of quantity’
    the craft is, as the partisans of ‘progress’ so readily declare, a ‘thing
    of the past’. The workman in industry cannot put into his work
    anything of himself, and a lot of trouble would even be taken to pre-
    vent him if he had the least inclination to try to do so; but he cannot
    even try, because all his activity consists solely in making a machine
    go, and because in addition he is rendered quite incapable of initia-
    tive by the professional ‘formation’— or rather deformation— he has
    received, which is practically the antithesis of the ancient appren-
    ticeship, and has for its sole object to teach him to execute certain
    movements ‘mechanically’ and always in the same way, without
    having at all to understand the reason for them or to trouble him-
    self about the result, for it is not he, but the machine, that will really
    fabricate the object. Servant of the machine, the man must become
    a machine himself, and thenceforth his work has nothing really
    human in it, for it no longer implies the putting to work of any of
    the qualities that really constitute human nature .”

    – Rene Guenon

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  114. @dc.sunsets

    Since the people are urban and dependent, they cannot survive without the system, which is to say they cannot survive (in the same numbers) without the government
     
    Pray tell, from where is "the government" going to obtain the means of their people's survival?

    All consumption is in real time; it is impossible to consume products to be made in the future.

    What the credit/debt bubble produces is a diversion of what is consumed, and thus a radical alteration in the structure of production. "Government" thus waves vast sums of "money" at certain things, and entire economies evolve to produce what is thus demanded.

    This produced armies of people who don't produce necessities (or know how to feed themselves); they are entirely skilled at the FIRE economy, or (over)producing medical services, higher ed services, social-welfare services and services on which politicians showered the loot.

    At the same time, organic demand for other "stuff" waned, as did the numbers of people skilled and able to produce it.

    THIS is how a credit bubble "consumes" the future, by altering the capital structure so that vast investments of time and skill become embedded in industries for which demand is entirely artificial and temporary.

    In today's world, job specialization is massive. If you're 50 years old and have worked in a particular industry or capacity, your ability to shift to another is almost nonexistent. Take that condition, pull the plug on credit-bubble-supported demand characteristics and what results is a phenomenal number of people who are suddenly without relevant (economically useful) skills. [Add them to the huge number of people who don't even try to be economically useful....]

    Today's plummeting Labor Force Participation Rate is a harbinger of what's to come. It will be fascinating to watch political forces attempt to simultaneously satisfy a dozen "hungry" factions for every single dose of spending available.

    The multiple waves of cataclysm that roll through societies as this condition is worked off should be unprecedented.

    What a great time to learn to garden...and be happy with less---a lot less.

    Pray tell, from where is “the government” going to obtain the means of their people’s survival?

    In an “emergency” the executive branch, specifically the President and Secretaries, have the legal authority to direct all commerce in the USA. They can tell farmers what to plant and where to deliver it, processors to process the food and where to ship it, stores to sell it, what to accept in payment, and the Treasury to issue the needed fiat money.

    Likewise they have the same authority over all “essential” commerce, including energy, water, law enforcement, and the media.

    The laws (and executive orders issued under the laws) are in place, all that is needed is a declared emergency. Small landholders may fall between the cracks, large corporations will not.

    I am not saying it will work to create long-term stability, just that this will be the next stage. The expansion of credit fueled “growth” will come to an end and there will be winners and losers (the unproductive most likely) selected by the government, but in order to keep chaos from reigning it will be done.

    Read More
    • Replies: @another fred
    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R43118.pdf

    The current authorities of the DPA include, but are not limited to:

    Title I: Priorities and Allocations, which allows the President to require persons (including businesses and corporations) to prioritize and accept contracts for materials and services as necessary to promote the national defense.

    Title III: Expansion of Productive Capacity and Supply, which allows the President to incentivize the domestic industrial base to expand the production and supply of critical materials and goods. Authorized incentives include loans, loan guarantees, direct purchases and purchase commitments, and the authority to procure and install equipment in private industrial facilities.
     
    Just one of the laws. It was originally passed in anticipation of keeping things going after a nuclear attack. Amendments and other laws (Homeland Security conspicuously) have expanded the reach and circumstances under which the law(s) may be used.

    This country will not surrender easily to chaos.

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  115. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    Sweet! Dr. Nasr - very good stuff!

    Much obliged for the links! I leave you with a beautiful quote of Dr. Nasr that adorns the intro pages of a 14th century manual of sacred law I have on my shelf:
    "In accordance with the real nature of things, it is the human that must conform to the Divine and not the Divine to the human."

    Peace.

    Yes maam, I have been an ardent follower of much of what he says for years now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    It's actually a 'sir' - harmless mistake:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhah

    Peace.
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  116. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    Not much has changed, the impulse to enslave is still there , except machines put white people in factories to man these machines along with a small percentage of blacks. Now the machines enslave us or rather, scrupulous men are still enslaving their brothers but the slavery is more subtle. Our philosophical shift started with

    The machines put the equivalent labor of hundreds of slaves at the disposal of each citizen of a technological society. I am not talking in the abstract, I refer to physical, grinding slavery that reduces man to a machine.

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  117. Svigor says:

    They’ll wait. Complexity tends to resolve itself inexorably. Entropy is the preeminent natural process.

    Increasing biological complexity has a pretty long run. Like 4 billion years, out of the 5 billion or so since the Earth formed.

    Increasing social, cultural, and technological complexity have had a similar run, since their beginnings.

    Read More
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  118. Talha says:
    @Anon-og
    Yes maam, I have been an ardent follower of much of what he says for years now.

    Hey Mike,

    It’s actually a ‘sir’ – harmless mistake:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhah

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon-og
    Sorry about that
    , @RadicalCenter
    Talha, the entry you link states that the historical Talha (sixth to seventh century A.D.) had at least fifteen children by eight women. This is the guy you admire so much that you choose his name as your online moniker?

    Sometimes it seems that you and I have similar values and priorities in some respects, but this strongly suggests otherwise.
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  119. @another fred

    Pray tell, from where is “the government” going to obtain the means of their people’s survival?
     
    In an "emergency" the executive branch, specifically the President and Secretaries, have the legal authority to direct all commerce in the USA. They can tell farmers what to plant and where to deliver it, processors to process the food and where to ship it, stores to sell it, what to accept in payment, and the Treasury to issue the needed fiat money.

    Likewise they have the same authority over all "essential" commerce, including energy, water, law enforcement, and the media.

    The laws (and executive orders issued under the laws) are in place, all that is needed is a declared emergency. Small landholders may fall between the cracks, large corporations will not.

    I am not saying it will work to create long-term stability, just that this will be the next stage. The expansion of credit fueled "growth" will come to an end and there will be winners and losers (the unproductive most likely) selected by the government, but in order to keep chaos from reigning it will be done.

    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R43118.pdf

    The current authorities of the DPA include, but are not limited to:

    Title I: Priorities and Allocations, which allows the President to require persons (including businesses and corporations) to prioritize and accept contracts for materials and services as necessary to promote the national defense.

    Title III: Expansion of Productive Capacity and Supply, which allows the President to incentivize the domestic industrial base to expand the production and supply of critical materials and goods. Authorized incentives include loans, loan guarantees, direct purchases and purchase commitments, and the authority to procure and install equipment in private industrial facilities.

    Just one of the laws. It was originally passed in anticipation of keeping things going after a nuclear attack. Amendments and other laws (Homeland Security conspicuously) have expanded the reach and circumstances under which the law(s) may be used.

    This country will not surrender easily to chaos.

    Read More
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  120. Thirdeye says:
    @Sean
    Real lifeboat ethics are instructive about human nature:-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Rooseboom

    Not a darn thing, so far as I can see.
     
    If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies win the civil war then there will be 10 million refugees coming to Europe as Putin as his puppet laugh up their sleeves.. No, we cannot leave this thing alone, and if we have to confront Russia then so be it. Stopping an invasion are what the hugely expensive millitary forces of the West are for. They must be used now.

    If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies win the civil war then there will be 10 million refugees coming to Europe as Putin as his puppet laugh up their sleeves.

    Bullshit. Al Qaeda/ISIS are the ones displacing people and most of the displaced people stayed within Syria.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    Would you stay in Syria if you had an excuse for getting into Europe, eh?
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  121. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @1rw
    Modern militant Islam today is not a threat to but a tool of Israel and the US. If it were a seen as a threat to Zionism, the US would not be destabilizing/destroying secular Arab states such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt and would instead be putting pressure on the Saudis, who finance Wahhabism and openly threaten others, such as Russia, with terror attacks.

    Indeed, Islamic militants are an important tool in the arsenal of US and their Zionist puppet masters'.

    And upon analysis, there is little Islam can do to either short term. Israel is perfectly capable of staying acceptably safe by practicing sensible security measures against any would be terrorists, including physical separation . The US is far removed geographically. While security is not perfect, neither country can be forced to make policy based on what the terrorists want. The same cannot be said for countries which have large, stupid, "devout" populations of muslims. Perhaps that is why Europe must admit these people, so that State Department can have yet another lever on the occupied Europeans?

    If there is an actual threat to Zionism, it is Russia and China, with their nuclear weapons, capable conventional forces, relatively advanced economies, and sense of sovereignty. Tell me what have Muhammedans prevented the US from doing lately? In contrast, Russia has foiled US plans in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria. No new NATO base in the former two. Assad continues to reign in the latter and looks set to win the civil war. When Muslims offend the US or Israel, neither hesitates to drop bombs and launch missiles, careless of bystanders. When Russia spoiled the US plans, all it got was economic sanctions and whined at.

    I understand that these things are both hard to understanding for you, but that's the way it actually is.

    As you said, Militant Islam is a tool of Zionism and this is exactly so because of the problem that true Islam poses for Zionism. To set a perversion of the religion and give it a name like the Islamic State says everything and of course comes from the architects and owners of the Jewish State. China and Russia are also targets but the Islamic nations in Israel’s backyard are the closer, easier to defeat enemy for now, not to mention, the Israelis enjoying kicking people when they are down, and would rather use Americans as cannon fodder for their more serious wars. Putin has been smart to revive Russian Orthodox Christianity in his motherland because without an immune system, one is more susceptible to Zionist tricknology. Zionists want you to lose your religion but they never do theirs, there is a reason for that.

    And lets not talk of stupidity, your internal affairs have been hijacked by the enemies of your nations who use your population to fight their wars. Your wives, daughters, and even grannies(grannyporn lol) have been slutted out and dishonored by Jews in your full view and you don’t have the intelligence, will or backbone to fight it, instead your tax dollars continue to go to Israel and you cant mobilize, organize or unify enough to elect politicians that can do your bidding even though you are the majority of the population. That’s what I call STUPID, but even worse than stupid is docile, impotent and ineffective.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Maybe you don't really know much about Zionists. I have come across plenty who are atheists so can hardly be said to have kept their religion, contrary to your assertion. A little imagination and historical knowledge would make the 19th century idea of providing a safe home for people of one cultural tradition (or closely related cultural traditions) and common ancestry, away from pogroms and lesser discrimination, easy to understand without invoking hate filled pictures.
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  122. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @1rw
    Modern militant Islam today is not a threat to but a tool of Israel and the US. If it were a seen as a threat to Zionism, the US would not be destabilizing/destroying secular Arab states such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt and would instead be putting pressure on the Saudis, who finance Wahhabism and openly threaten others, such as Russia, with terror attacks.

    Indeed, Islamic militants are an important tool in the arsenal of US and their Zionist puppet masters'.

    And upon analysis, there is little Islam can do to either short term. Israel is perfectly capable of staying acceptably safe by practicing sensible security measures against any would be terrorists, including physical separation . The US is far removed geographically. While security is not perfect, neither country can be forced to make policy based on what the terrorists want. The same cannot be said for countries which have large, stupid, "devout" populations of muslims. Perhaps that is why Europe must admit these people, so that State Department can have yet another lever on the occupied Europeans?

    If there is an actual threat to Zionism, it is Russia and China, with their nuclear weapons, capable conventional forces, relatively advanced economies, and sense of sovereignty. Tell me what have Muhammedans prevented the US from doing lately? In contrast, Russia has foiled US plans in Georgia, Ukraine and Syria. No new NATO base in the former two. Assad continues to reign in the latter and looks set to win the civil war. When Muslims offend the US or Israel, neither hesitates to drop bombs and launch missiles, careless of bystanders. When Russia spoiled the US plans, all it got was economic sanctions and whined at.

    I understand that these things are both hard to understanding for you, but that's the way it actually is.

    Compare Russia’s reaction to U.S. sanctions to Iran’s reaction to U.S. sanctions, both just further developed alternate routes and so we have BRICS etc.
    Your dubious comparison of the muslim reaction to war versus the Russian reaction to sanctions omits the fact that no part of Russia has ever been invaded by Americans and the last time that the Europeans attempted, the Russians did much more than kill a couple of thousand people in a world trade center bombing. With Allied help, they destroyed Germany, that’s not terrorism but a just reaction to Western aggression lol but a few lone muslims who throw pebbles at the bloody empire are terrorists

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    I'm talking about US reaction to Russia vs US reaction to Muslims

    Reading comprehension ain't your strong suite is it?
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  123. @Sean
    Real lifeboat ethics are instructive about human nature:-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Rooseboom

    Not a darn thing, so far as I can see.
     
    If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies win the civil war then there will be 10 million refugees coming to Europe as Putin as his puppet laugh up their sleeves.. No, we cannot leave this thing alone, and if we have to confront Russia then so be it. Stopping an invasion are what the hugely expensive millitary forces of the West are for. They must be used now.

    Sean, there will be a Hell of a lot more people fleeing Syria if, God forbid, the US-backed Islamists overthrow Assad’s government. Such as every Christian left in that country and every Alawite left in the country, as both are targeted for particular horror and extermination under the Islamic State and like “rebels.” We would also likely see the flight of many of the minority-sect or simply non-insane Muslims out of Syria, as well.

    Before this US / ISIS/ Israeli effort to overthrow Assad kicked in to high gear, was Europe getting such an overwhelming number of refugees from Syria?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    IF ISRAEL WANTED TO WEAKEN HIM ALL IT HAS TO DO IS BUILD UP ITS FORCES OPPOSITE SYRIA AND ASSAD WOULD HAVE TO DIVERT RESOURCES AWAY FROM THE CIVIL WAR , ISRAELIS HAVE NOT DONE THIS.

    Assad stated with a not insubstantial army, professional officer corps, heavy weapons and he was looking like he could lose Aleppo when the Russians came in. He has has Russian Iranian, Iraqi, Lebanese and Iranian (lots of Iranian troops fighting for him. The obvious conclusion is that Assad cannot count on the support of the majority (call them what you will) and if he is allowed to reconquer al Syria they will leave.

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  124. @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Lots of theories that have been presented, but I'm not a 100% sure why. From what I can tell Western Christianity traded in the pre-eminence of religion in life to the material and emperical - it was a slow process and littered with quite a few bodies along the way. After Rosseau, Hume, Voltaire and others, basically the West is Post-Christian now. And when they took that route, wow, did they excel in it! Materially, they are magnificent in accomplishment - who can deny this?

    Spiritually, well...all of it depends on one's priorities; I'm not a 100% sure I want Muslims to go that route seeing what's at the end of it...not enough Kiergegaard:
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kierkegaard/

    Peace.

    I don’t discuss that you think that African and Muslim civilizations are magnificent.

    So, why can’t the children of these civilizations stay in their homelands enjoying all this greatness? Why do they need to come to the decadent Western civilization?

    Imagine: being in Mali, besides the history of the Timbuktu university. Such a privilege. I have heard that millions of white people are trying to illegally immigrate into Mali and Saudi Arabia to try to enjoy the fruits of these advanced civilizations.

    I love African and Arab immigrants. This is why I don’t want them to come to white countries. I prefer for them to enjoy their native civilization. Living in white countries while lecturing us about the greatness of Muslim civilization is hypocritical.

    Go to the House of Islam, dear Talha! Don’t waste your time commenting in infidels’ forums! Iraq, Afghanistan, Mali, Morocco, Pakistan, Jordan… the most advanced countries on Earth. The best religion on Earth (Germany is currently being enriched by it). May Allah bless your journey to these countries and let the decadent countries behind. Please take all your fellow coreligionists with you.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey imnobody00,

    These are straw men. I was not saying African civilization was 'magnificent' I was merely defending the fact that it actually existed in the Sahel region of Africa centuries before Europeans came there. I was quite clear in using the word 'magnificent' in describing the material accomplishments of the West - read it again.

    Why do they need to come to the decadent Western civilization?
     
    There was no flood of immigrants before Libya, Iraq and Syria were shattered - let's not put the cart before the horse. And yes, they are obviously coming for material gain - this is something our scholars have warned about. If the in tention is wrong, then I'm afraid they will lose their faith in the West withinn one or two generations.

    Living in white countries while lecturing us about the greatness of Muslim civilization is hypocritical.
     
    Absolutely correct - you can point out where I was lecturing about the greatness of Muslim civilization - did you even read my comments? I was even agreeing that medieval Muslim scholars are indebted to earlier European ones and that Middle Age Europe was not a piss-pot of a continent for almost a millennium as some have been taught to believe. I am a beneficiary of Western advancement in medicine, science, etc. - who isn't? But that is not the problem facing the West right now is it? Looking at some of your previous posts you are quite on board with what I am saying and rightly calling out the 'debauchery culture' coming out of the US.

    As Mike pointed out, we are really negligible in our power or influence in the US. Even if we were all kicked out, the people would still have to deal with a culture that allows this nonsense to perpetuate itself:
    http://divine-interventions.com/religioustoys.php

    Go to the House of Islam, dear Talha!
     
    That's not a problem - I'm not begging to stay. I know quite well what the traditional view on Muslims residing in non-Muslim countries is; that we are guests with a covenant with the ruling authorities and a social contract with the people:
    "The status of the Muslims who reside and are born in non-Muslim states is the reverse of the above non-Muslim status in a Muslim state: al-muslim bi-dhimmati l-kafir [a Muslim in the care of a non-Muslim state] and from our own Muslim and religious perspective, whether we like it or not, there are similarities to the status of a guest which should not be forgotten."
    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/defending_civilians.htm

    'Citizen', 'resident', etc. aside - we are actually dhimmis in the West from the point of view of the sacred law - surprise, surprise!

    Muslims who threaten the security and people of these lands should be kicked out post-haste as non-Muslims would be from Muslim lands if they did the same.

    I know of four families that left (Jordan, Pakistan, and Madinah thus far) and one Senegalese family that is planning to. In fact, if we could get assurances that if all Muslims left there would be no military interventions or invasions into Muslim lands, I would be actively recruiting Muslims to leave the West. At this point, I have not been formally asked by the ruling authorities to leave, I have great relations with my neighbors, and my IT director has made it clear he doesn't know what he would do without me, so right now things are working out well for everyone involved.

    Also, my wife is a White convert and (silly her) seems to think she has just as much a right to stay here as any other White person - who listens to their husbands these days?

    Peace.
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  125. @Anon-og
    Right, your myopic point of view reveals itself. Of course, everything was all shit until our time right? I guess the world was in poverty because we didn't drive cars and have apple phones lol. Clean air, clean water, beautiful cities, beautiful architecture, the remnants of which are still with us are still more beautiful than anything a modern city produces. The proof is in the pudding, modern civilization cannot live without destroying all other life, this isn't progress but monstrosity and looks like the earth is sizing us up for a total rejection of all things human.

    Surely there must be some middle ground between the largely technology-free idyllic world you portray and our current soul-less, atomized, low-trust, family-destroying societies?

    In that earlier idyllic world, by the way, great numbers of people died in agony of diseases and conditions that are today readily curable or treatable, often at a young age. Throw in the many women and babies who died in childbirth, and the diametric opposite of our high-tech society should not be what we’re aiming for, either.

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  126. @1rw
    By their fruits ye shall know them

    Yesterday Muslims performed the spiritual acts of ramming a truck into a Christmas market in Berlin and gunning down the Russian Ambassador to Turkey. Merely because some sect of Mohammedans likes to get high and spin until they fall from vertigo does not inhibit their coreligionists from waging war on those they consider infidels. Islam was born as a tool of conquest, and it continues as such.

    A Carthagenean Peace to you.

    Perfectly said, 1rw. Talha might truly be a peaceful and good guy, who knows. But his religion is inherently and in practice not so, and we can’t deceive ourselves with wishful thinking.

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    • Replies: @1rw
    Talha might also be practicing Taquiya. It is permissible for Muslims to lie to infidels to achieve objectives.
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  127. @Anon-og
    Speaking of Germany, the wholesale rape of that nation by the Allied powers(white people) doesn't make your race savage to you but what a few extremists created either directly or indirectly by the West indicts a religion of almost 2 billion followers? I see a real trend here because the Allied powers are still raping and pillaging today, except they have their target set on the Middle East and the mayhem they create is on full display for all to see. Muslims are by and large the biggest victims of this savagery and as usual, the victim is blamed...

    the Germans were an inherently evil people when they were in your way.

    The Russians are an inherently evil people because they are in your way.

    The Native Americans were savages and an inherently evil people because they were in your way.

    And now, of course, the Muslims are an inherently evil people because they are in your way

    Not a peep about evil Islam when you were hunting for Red October these last few decades lol, now all of a sudden it's a savage religion that always been savage LOL

    You’re right, neither Germans nor Russians were or are inherently evil.

    Wish we had stayed out of both WW1 and WW2, and certainly wish we were not interfering in Muslim countries and bombing / droning them for no good defensive reason.

    But we will be wise to keep islam out of our countries.

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    • Replies: @Anon-og
    Islam has been here for a while and it has not infiltrated the government and media the way Zionism and Judaism has nor has it attempted to. You don't find too many muslims on welfare or even doing menial jobs, many are doctors, lawyers, architects and engineers. Having said that, I respect the American nativist perspective because its honest and of course, I believe that people who have been here longer should have more of a say in this country. But tough talk about keeping Islam out while Americans are forced spread eagle to embrace an Israeli first agenda that works with a Jewish Hollywood that has as its target, the degeneration of American Christian culture while forcing money out of Goyim in support of Israel is a problem here and now but its so funny how all the tough talkers on Islam are silent when it comes to Israel. Yeah, commenting anonymously on here is one thing but to be enraged about Islam when the majority of aggression is coming from the West towards muslims and remain totally mute about Israel and Zionism shows the docility of a lot of Americans. Muslims weren't fucking with Americans for the majority of the 20th century, but when the American enslavement by Israel starts spilling into muslim lands via the wars being waged with your blood for Israel's agenda, you will get an aggressive reaction from people who do not suffer your complacency and docility. Muslims were good guys when Americans were busy hating the Soviets/Jews of the USSR most of the 2oth century, all while the Jews of the USA were quietly taking over this nation, now that process is complete and you are still wasting your energy focusing on people who have also been victimized by your masters. Perhaps the blind hatred of muslims is the natural reaction of an impotent people who couldn't or wouldn't dare challenge those who are truly responsible for their lot because that would be anti-Semitic and nothing scares us faster than that label. The forefathers of this country who fought British usurpation during the revolutionary period would turn in their graves if they were witness what the American character has become. They were rebels in the true sense and would also be considered terrorist and actually were by the british because they fought for their independence.
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  128. @Corvinus
    "We also wish that Europeans had not gotten entangled with or imported anyone from your ancestral lands, wherever they may be. Believe me."

    I'm predominately Polish, with some German and Dutch. So thanks for noticing that the Russians and my fellow Germans decimated my people. I thought all whites stick together...guess not.

    "As for “whites aren’t any more kind than blacks”, you insult our intelligence."

    People are kind. People are cruel. Stating that one race compared to another race overall is more kind or more cruel is beyond the pale. What metrics are used here? What are the operational definitions of "kindness" and "cruelty"? What sociological studies have looked at this particular phenomenon? You can certainly look at matters from your own lens, but understand that you, and I, suffer from confirmation bias in some way, shape, and form.

    "But poverty or the other factors — some real, some exaggerated or imagined — don’t explain the long history of Africans in the usa and Canada being disproportionately involved in sheer cruelty, inflicting pain and fear for fun, raping, torturing, and murdering...By contrast, a huge percentage of Africans in the USA are involved in hurting, terrorizing, and trying to harm the rest of us, and laughing while they do it."

    Yes, the "proportional" and "percentage" arguments. Here is your daily dose of reality.

    http://www.timwise.org/2013/08/race-crime-and-statistical-malpractice-how-the-right-manipulates-white-fear-with-bogus-data/

    If we are going to throw statistics around, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, out of 460,128 violent crimes, 276,460 whites (including Hispanics) and 169,612 blacks were arrested. Violent crimes include murder and non negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. Raw numbers matter.

    "Nor did our ancestors do a damn thing to yours here in the USA; they were persevering through discrimination, learning English, and working hard and fighting in this country’s stupid wars to prove ourselves.)"

    I'm Polish, not black. And the darkies also had similar experiences as your ancestors.

    "My life has been enriched by my friendships and other relationships with people of various different racial and cultural backgrounds, including my own wife. Africans, with one major exception, not so much."

    You are making a wild generalization from your own personal experiences. From my own dealings, the majority of my interactions with "Africans" have been outright positive. Each person's dealings is unique. That doesn't mean since you had negative outcomes with blacks that all or most of this racial group are continually on the rampage.

    "And your attempts to equate your race with others in this regard, is an insult to the tens of millions of white (and now also Asian and hispanic) American victims of violence, cruelty, intimidation and degradation at the hands of Africans in our country."

    I only thought SJW's engaged in shaming tactics and playing the victim card. My bad.

    Corvinus, you wrote, referring to yourself, “this brown or black guy.” Sorry I missed the apparently intended sarcasm.

    I stand by everything that I wrote. When my people and other innocent people are victimized by violence, intimidation, and degradation on such a massive scale and with such regularity by Africans in this country, I’m proud to point it out, work against it, and condemn people who deny it’s happening or make excuses for it.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I stand by everything that I wrote."

    That is your perogative to stand by inaccuracies and half-truths.

    "When my people and other innocent people are victimized by violence, intimidation, and degradation on such a massive scale and with such regularity by Africans in this country."

    Again, crime statistics bear out that in raw numbers, white people (including Hispanics) engage in those actions you describe. Feel free to cover for "your people".
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  129. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    It's actually a 'sir' - harmless mistake:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhah

    Peace.

    Sorry about that

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  130. @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    It's actually a 'sir' - harmless mistake:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talhah

    Peace.

    Talha, the entry you link states that the historical Talha (sixth to seventh century A.D.) had at least fifteen children by eight women. This is the guy you admire so much that you choose his name as your online moniker?

    Sometimes it seems that you and I have similar values and priorities in some respects, but this strongly suggests otherwise.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey RC,

    That's the name my parents gave me. He was a Companion and a good one at that (dubbed the 'Falcon of Uhud'):
    "There was Talhah, bleeding profusely. He had numerous wounds, from sword, spear and arrow. His foot had been cut and he had fallen into a hollow where he lay unconscious...And, whenever Uhud was recalled, As-Siddiq (ra), would say: 'That day, that entire day, belonged to Talhah.'"
    http://www.sunnah.org/history/Sahaba/talhah.html

    Back in those days and in that culture, having four wives was not a big deal. And if one of them died (which many did in childbirth or sickness), you simply married again. He was a naturally gifted merchant and could afford all their upkeep. Also, he had a few concubines - again, no big deal back then.

    Charles Martel had a concubine, if I remember correctly. I won't even get into the Biblical prophets and their wives (or concubines) - and they were God's emissaries.

    My spiritual teachers have said absolutely NO to polygamy as an option for their students; as in - don't even think about it!

    We have more in common than you think; I believe we have both found loving women and are raising children that are the coolness of our eyes.

    Peace.

    , @Anon-og
    Right, everyone had a one wife, a white picket fence with a dog and two children back then lol . A lot of that and much worse was going in Christian Europe back then as well. Shit, forget Christian Europe, take a road trip to Europe and you'll see many of your Mormon cousins still doing this today.
    , @Anon-og
    And come on, Radical Center, don't be so hard on Talha. You were probably named after someone who not too long ago actually owned human beings and treated them like cattle, multiple wives over a thousand years ago is a much lesser crime than breaking up families by selling and owning human beings just a little more than two centuries ago lol
    , @Anon-og
    as more and more American men are skipping women altogether and fucking each other , who are we to judge lol. I have much more in common with a man who might have more than one wife than I do with men who like fucking each other but the latter are now our teachers and role models according to the Jewish plan for America
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  131. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @RadicalCenter
    You're right, neither Germans nor Russians were or are inherently evil.

    Wish we had stayed out of both WW1 and WW2, and certainly wish we were not interfering in Muslim countries and bombing / droning them for no good defensive reason.

    But we will be wise to keep islam out of our countries.

    Islam has been here for a while and it has not infiltrated the government and media the way Zionism and Judaism has nor has it attempted to. You don’t find too many muslims on welfare or even doing menial jobs, many are doctors, lawyers, architects and engineers. Having said that, I respect the American nativist perspective because its honest and of course, I believe that people who have been here longer should have more of a say in this country. But tough talk about keeping Islam out while Americans are forced spread eagle to embrace an Israeli first agenda that works with a Jewish Hollywood that has as its target, the degeneration of American Christian culture while forcing money out of Goyim in support of Israel is a problem here and now but its so funny how all the tough talkers on Islam are silent when it comes to Israel. Yeah, commenting anonymously on here is one thing but to be enraged about Islam when the majority of aggression is coming from the West towards muslims and remain totally mute about Israel and Zionism shows the docility of a lot of Americans. Muslims weren’t fucking with Americans for the majority of the 20th century, but when the American enslavement by Israel starts spilling into muslim lands via the wars being waged with your blood for Israel’s agenda, you will get an aggressive reaction from people who do not suffer your complacency and docility. Muslims were good guys when Americans were busy hating the Soviets/Jews of the USSR most of the 2oth century, all while the Jews of the USA were quietly taking over this nation, now that process is complete and you are still wasting your energy focusing on people who have also been victimized by your masters. Perhaps the blind hatred of muslims is the natural reaction of an impotent people who couldn’t or wouldn’t dare challenge those who are truly responsible for their lot because that would be anti-Semitic and nothing scares us faster than that label. The forefathers of this country who fought British usurpation during the revolutionary period would turn in their graves if they were witness what the American character has become. They were rebels in the true sense and would also be considered terrorist and actually were by the british because they fought for their independence.

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  132. Talha says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Talha, the entry you link states that the historical Talha (sixth to seventh century A.D.) had at least fifteen children by eight women. This is the guy you admire so much that you choose his name as your online moniker?

    Sometimes it seems that you and I have similar values and priorities in some respects, but this strongly suggests otherwise.

    Hey RC,

    That’s the name my parents gave me. He was a Companion and a good one at that (dubbed the ‘Falcon of Uhud’):
    “There was Talhah, bleeding profusely. He had numerous wounds, from sword, spear and arrow. His foot had been cut and he had fallen into a hollow where he lay unconscious…And, whenever Uhud was recalled, As-Siddiq (ra), would say: ‘That day, that entire day, belonged to Talhah.’”

    http://www.sunnah.org/history/Sahaba/talhah.html

    Back in those days and in that culture, having four wives was not a big deal. And if one of them died (which many did in childbirth or sickness), you simply married again. He was a naturally gifted merchant and could afford all their upkeep. Also, he had a few concubines – again, no big deal back then.

    Charles Martel had a concubine, if I remember correctly. I won’t even get into the Biblical prophets and their wives (or concubines) – and they were God’s emissaries.

    My spiritual teachers have said absolutely NO to polygamy as an option for their students; as in – don’t even think about it!

    We have more in common than you think; I believe we have both found loving women and are raising children that are the coolness of our eyes.

    Peace.

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  133. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Talha, the entry you link states that the historical Talha (sixth to seventh century A.D.) had at least fifteen children by eight women. This is the guy you admire so much that you choose his name as your online moniker?

    Sometimes it seems that you and I have similar values and priorities in some respects, but this strongly suggests otherwise.

    Right, everyone had a one wife, a white picket fence with a dog and two children back then lol . A lot of that and much worse was going in Christian Europe back then as well. Shit, forget Christian Europe, take a road trip to Europe and you’ll see many of your Mormon cousins still doing this today.

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    • Replies: @Anon-og
    I meant take a road trip to Utah lol
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  134. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Talha, the entry you link states that the historical Talha (sixth to seventh century A.D.) had at least fifteen children by eight women. This is the guy you admire so much that you choose his name as your online moniker?

    Sometimes it seems that you and I have similar values and priorities in some respects, but this strongly suggests otherwise.

    And come on, Radical Center, don’t be so hard on Talha. You were probably named after someone who not too long ago actually owned human beings and treated them like cattle, multiple wives over a thousand years ago is a much lesser crime than breaking up families by selling and owning human beings just a little more than two centuries ago lol

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    • Replies: @1rw
    How do you know Talha's recent ancestors didn't own slaves? The Arabs took slaves from Africa and Europe into the 19th Century. It was only the preponderance of European naval power that occurred in the 1800s that finally stopped them.
    , @Salger
    https://www.therightstuff.biz/2015/08/23/slavery-of-blacks-was-pretty-tame/

    Tell us more how Blacks were better off in Africa and how only Whitey has ever had slaves.
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  135. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @Anon-og
    Right, everyone had a one wife, a white picket fence with a dog and two children back then lol . A lot of that and much worse was going in Christian Europe back then as well. Shit, forget Christian Europe, take a road trip to Europe and you'll see many of your Mormon cousins still doing this today.

    I meant take a road trip to Utah lol

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  136. Anon-og [AKA "Mike Johnson"] says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Talha, the entry you link states that the historical Talha (sixth to seventh century A.D.) had at least fifteen children by eight women. This is the guy you admire so much that you choose his name as your online moniker?

    Sometimes it seems that you and I have similar values and priorities in some respects, but this strongly suggests otherwise.

    as more and more American men are skipping women altogether and fucking each other , who are we to judge lol. I have much more in common with a man who might have more than one wife than I do with men who like fucking each other but the latter are now our teachers and role models according to the Jewish plan for America

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  137. @Talha
    Hey epochehusserl,

    Again, this is hyperbolic. But there is truth in this; there was a significant trade in Black eunuchs in that area.

    There is also truth in this; if you were a potential eunuch, the best thing that could happen to you was that Islam would take over the territory that you lived in. Since it prohibited the 'manufacture' of eunuchs within its realms, the 'factories' where they were being made would be pushed out into the fringes or beyond its borders:
    “The demand for slaves, including talented and literate non-Muslim eunuchs, was enormous across the Islamic world at the time of the early Abbasid caliphate (mid-eighth to the late tenth century). Judging by the actions described in al-Muqaddasi’s geography, the captives did not even need to be literate in Arabic in order to be useful. This demand generated a ripple effect that spread throughout Abbasid territories, throughout the Mediterranean basin and also into eastern and western Europe. Scholars are just starting to acknowledge the large-scale influence of this long-distance slave trade on the start of the Viking Age in northwestern Europe, the same eighth through eleventh centuries. Indeed, some still deny the importance of the economics of the slave trade when it comes to Viking raiding activities. But women were often targeted during Viking raids, as potential mothers and wives in Iceland and Scandinavia, or as high-value trade objects to be exchanged as far away as Byzantium and the Abbasid Empire.”
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/castration-and-culture-in-the-middle-ages/castrating-monks-vikings-the-slave-trade-and-the-value-of-eunuchs/028A4E81E02ABBF3BEA7EB66ADAF426C

    "Mutilation was forbidden by Muslim law, and a specific ban on castration was invested with the authority of the Prophet by a hadith: 'Whoever cuts off the nose of a slave, his nose will be cut off; and whoever castrates a slave, him also shall we castrate.'...The letter, if not spirit, of the law was long observed by leaving to those beyond the territorial limits of Islam the act of castration and then importing the product. In the Middle Ages, Prague and Verdun became castration centers for the supply of European eunuchs; Kharazon, near the Caspian Sea, a center for the supply of central Asian ones. Further circumventions, on Islamic territory, were pursued on the basis that the operations were conducted by non-Muslims. In the tenth-century Islamic Spain, Jewish merchants reportedly performed the operation. In the nineteenth century, Christian monks ran a castration center at their monastery of Deir al-Jandala near Abu Tig, a small town in Upper Egypt."
    Islam's Black Slaves: The Other Black Diaspora

    Like Byzantine Christians, Muslims could definitely be found guilty of making demands for eunuchs, a charge that even Muslim scholars found troubling. However, unlike Byzantium, they are free of the charge of being the ones doing the cutting:
    "This 'making,' the act of castration, was and is forbidden under Islamic law. Slave traders, at least in theory, castrated young boys on the borders of the Islamic realm before importing them. This legal fiction, however was still troubling to some pious scholars. Al-Subki ends his chapter with the statement that one can find in the books of the Hanafi legal school that its founder, Abu Hanifa, declared the taking of eunuchs into one's service reprehensible (yukrah), not forbidden (yuhram), because making use of eunuchs was 'an abetment of castration, which is [a] prohibited [act]."
    Eunuchs and Sacred Boundaries in Islamic Society

    Would you care to resurrect that custom?
     
    No, it is an abomination - would you?

    Peace.

    I would not care to resurrect that custom but I would like to do away with white guilt seeing as though the idea that slavery is wrong originated with the whites.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey epochehusserl,

    There should be no guilt about it from anyone on any side at this point - nobody legalizes slavery to my knowledge; though it exists underground or in remote areas. Nobody that you or I know ever owned a slave. And yes, religious Quakers probably get the most credit in helping to abolish slavery worldwide through the influence of the British Empire (French and Ottomans get runner up status).

    Peace.
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  138. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    Compare Russia's reaction to U.S. sanctions to Iran's reaction to U.S. sanctions, both just further developed alternate routes and so we have BRICS etc.
    Your dubious comparison of the muslim reaction to war versus the Russian reaction to sanctions omits the fact that no part of Russia has ever been invaded by Americans and the last time that the Europeans attempted, the Russians did much more than kill a couple of thousand people in a world trade center bombing. With Allied help, they destroyed Germany, that's not terrorism but a just reaction to Western aggression lol but a few lone muslims who throw pebbles at the bloody empire are terrorists

    I’m talking about US reaction to Russia vs US reaction to Muslims

    Reading comprehension ain’t your strong suite is it?

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  139. @Anon-og
    As you said, Militant Islam is a tool of Zionism and this is exactly so because of the problem that true Islam poses for Zionism. To set a perversion of the religion and give it a name like the Islamic State says everything and of course comes from the architects and owners of the Jewish State. China and Russia are also targets but the Islamic nations in Israel's backyard are the closer, easier to defeat enemy for now, not to mention, the Israelis enjoying kicking people when they are down, and would rather use Americans as cannon fodder for their more serious wars. Putin has been smart to revive Russian Orthodox Christianity in his motherland because without an immune system, one is more susceptible to Zionist tricknology. Zionists want you to lose your religion but they never do theirs, there is a reason for that.

    And lets not talk of stupidity, your internal affairs have been hijacked by the enemies of your nations who use your population to fight their wars. Your wives, daughters, and even grannies(grannyporn lol) have been slutted out and dishonored by Jews in your full view and you don't have the intelligence, will or backbone to fight it, instead your tax dollars continue to go to Israel and you cant mobilize, organize or unify enough to elect politicians that can do your bidding even though you are the majority of the population. That's what I call STUPID, but even worse than stupid is docile, impotent and ineffective.

    Maybe you don’t really know much about Zionists. I have come across plenty who are atheists so can hardly be said to have kept their religion, contrary to your assertion. A little imagination and historical knowledge would make the 19th century idea of providing a safe home for people of one cultural tradition (or closely related cultural traditions) and common ancestry, away from pogroms and lesser discrimination, easy to understand without invoking hate filled pictures.

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  140. 1rw says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Perfectly said, 1rw. Talha might truly be a peaceful and good guy, who knows. But his religion is inherently and in practice not so, and we can't deceive ourselves with wishful thinking.

    Talha might also be practicing Taquiya. It is permissible for Muslims to lie to infidels to achieve objectives.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Ah yes the Taqiyya argument when one doesn't really have ground to stand on. Peruse through my posts; I cite my sources - often many of them are from non-Muslim academics on the subject. Maybe they too practice Taqiyya.

    Peace.
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  141. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    And come on, Radical Center, don't be so hard on Talha. You were probably named after someone who not too long ago actually owned human beings and treated them like cattle, multiple wives over a thousand years ago is a much lesser crime than breaking up families by selling and owning human beings just a little more than two centuries ago lol

    How do you know Talha’s recent ancestors didn’t own slaves? The Arabs took slaves from Africa and Europe into the 19th Century. It was only the preponderance of European naval power that occurred in the 1800s that finally stopped them.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Sorry, I'm from Pakistan - Mughal naval power left much to be desired.

    Peace.
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  142. @Corvinus
    "Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let’s assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who’s had a some black friends.). Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it’s silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don’t care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent. So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality."

    You constructed yourself a mighty strawman there. Congratulations. This black or brown dude is quite aware of the realities of race and culture, of societal changes. They look at their own brethren, and as a person who is from the middle class, shakes their head and wonders why those in the hood can't simply "get it together". Their worldview also incorporates how some white people will never bring themselves to admit that their own prejudices stem from confirmation bias and indoctrination. Increasing numbers of people, especially millennials but regardless of color, over the past three decades skillfully handle racial relations. There remains major institutional concerns, and blacks and whites have bonded together to demonstrate that changes are required. Their tactics and suggestions I may personally question; nonetheless, the reality is that whites and blacks, despite their longstanding animosities, seek to bridge the gap between themselves.

    "1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter."

    In some cases, absolutely. But when it comes to IQ, the "race realists" focus exclusively on biological rather than take into account environment and history.

    "The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not."

    Corrected for accuracy --> Depending upon where one lives, there are people regardless of their race that demonstrate kindness and respect. Being "nice" is not a trait that is found more among white people than black people.

    "Don’t take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it’s why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods."

    Corrected for accuracy --> People live in neighborhoods that generally reflect their socio-economic standing. Affluent whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians share a common suspicion of their racial brethren who neglect to work hard and take advantage of their opportunities to better themselves financially.

    "2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy."

    This obsession with the West borders on mental illness. Remember, blacks and browns were doing just fine running their own societies. While their civilizations were not as technologically advanced, they were content with their own progress. That is, until the greedy European stuck their nose into their business for resources and territory.

    "The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three."

    Corrected for accuracy --> Multiculturalism the result of individuals who have common ties and interests.

    "3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own...Basically, there reply was they didn’t want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe."

    Religion, not race, is one's uniform.

    And poor people of different races will bound together, as history as shown.

    https://zinnedproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/stf_union_power.jpg

    "But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe."

    Safe from oppression. Safe from radicals pushing their False News Stories.

    Imagine that. Corvinus citing a project devoted to Howard Zinn! So just being dishonest isn’t enough. Your have to have a citation referencing a project dedicated to dishonesty.

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  143. 1rw says:
    @Anon-og
    Would it pain you more if I was black or white?

    Mystery meat it is

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  144. @Corvinus
    "We also wish that Europeans had not gotten entangled with or imported anyone from your ancestral lands, wherever they may be. Believe me."

    I'm predominately Polish, with some German and Dutch. So thanks for noticing that the Russians and my fellow Germans decimated my people. I thought all whites stick together...guess not.

    "As for “whites aren’t any more kind than blacks”, you insult our intelligence."

    People are kind. People are cruel. Stating that one race compared to another race overall is more kind or more cruel is beyond the pale. What metrics are used here? What are the operational definitions of "kindness" and "cruelty"? What sociological studies have looked at this particular phenomenon? You can certainly look at matters from your own lens, but understand that you, and I, suffer from confirmation bias in some way, shape, and form.

    "But poverty or the other factors — some real, some exaggerated or imagined — don’t explain the long history of Africans in the usa and Canada being disproportionately involved in sheer cruelty, inflicting pain and fear for fun, raping, torturing, and murdering...By contrast, a huge percentage of Africans in the USA are involved in hurting, terrorizing, and trying to harm the rest of us, and laughing while they do it."

    Yes, the "proportional" and "percentage" arguments. Here is your daily dose of reality.

    http://www.timwise.org/2013/08/race-crime-and-statistical-malpractice-how-the-right-manipulates-white-fear-with-bogus-data/

    If we are going to throw statistics around, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, out of 460,128 violent crimes, 276,460 whites (including Hispanics) and 169,612 blacks were arrested. Violent crimes include murder and non negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. Raw numbers matter.

    "Nor did our ancestors do a damn thing to yours here in the USA; they were persevering through discrimination, learning English, and working hard and fighting in this country’s stupid wars to prove ourselves.)"

    I'm Polish, not black. And the darkies also had similar experiences as your ancestors.

    "My life has been enriched by my friendships and other relationships with people of various different racial and cultural backgrounds, including my own wife. Africans, with one major exception, not so much."

    You are making a wild generalization from your own personal experiences. From my own dealings, the majority of my interactions with "Africans" have been outright positive. Each person's dealings is unique. That doesn't mean since you had negative outcomes with blacks that all or most of this racial group are continually on the rampage.

    "And your attempts to equate your race with others in this regard, is an insult to the tens of millions of white (and now also Asian and hispanic) American victims of violence, cruelty, intimidation and degradation at the hands of Africans in our country."

    I only thought SJW's engaged in shaming tactics and playing the victim card. My bad.

    Wow Corvinus. Zinn’s dishonesty wasn’t enough. You have to cite professional hater Tim Wise. The same said “you are not worth saving” regarding white men, in his post:

    http://www.timwise.org/2010/11/an-open-letter-to-the-white-right-on-the-occasion-of-your-recent-successful-temper-tantrum/

    So, Corvinus, do you consider yourself unworthy of being saved? Because your BFF Tim Wise wants to dance on your grave.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Zinn’s dishonesty wasn’t enough. You have to cite professional hater Tim Wise. The same said “you are not worth saving” regarding white men, in his post..."

    Stick to the evidence presented. What specifically do you oppose by these individuals? See, you have to attack the information provided in the sources, not the sources themselves.

    "So, Corvinus, do you consider yourself unworthy of being saved?"

    That is for God to judge. Are you God? Perhaps prayer would do you some good.
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  145. annamaria says:
    @Sean
    Real lifeboat ethics are instructive about human nature:-
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Rooseboom

    Not a darn thing, so far as I can see.
     
    If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies win the civil war then there will be 10 million refugees coming to Europe as Putin as his puppet laugh up their sleeves.. No, we cannot leave this thing alone, and if we have to confront Russia then so be it. Stopping an invasion are what the hugely expensive millitary forces of the West are for. They must be used now.

    “If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad…”
    Why are you so agitated about the alleged dictatorial nature of Assad? The kingdom of Saud (the ultimate dictatorship), makes Israel’s bosom buddy but this does not bother you at all, despite the Saudi’s bloody support of liver eaters and head choppers.
    The Middle Eastern wars are the acknowledged cause of the waves of refugees (and sub-Saharan migrants with low IQ) to Europe. The wars have been run for the major war profiteers but the ideology of the US interventions in Iraq, Syria, and Libya was formulated by the US ziocons, the dreamers of Eretz Israel. The wars – and the waves of desperate refugees – are the tragic consequence of tribal viciousness.
    By the way, FOX news and other MSM presstituting sources of disinformation are not particularly honest about the civil war in Syria, specifically about Aleppo. Or, perhaps, you rely on the wisdom of Bellingcat (expert in selling the ladies underwear) or certain White Helmets (affiliates with Al Qaeda)? http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/20/the-white-helmets-black-record-vanessa-beeley-talks-to-rt-about-french-government-collusion-with-al-qaeda-linked-group/

    “…what the hugely expensive millitary forces of the West are for. They must be used now.”
    Yes, in the ideal world, the US should disengage, ASAP, from the interventions in the Middle East and start helping Europe to protect itself from the African migrants, whereas the enormous money that the MIC is sacking out from the US should be allocated, as a new Marshall Plan, to restore the ruined secular states in the Middle East. This would stop the march of refugees and would make Israel behave reasonably.

    “…we have to confront Russia…”
    Who are these “we?” – Has not US had more than enough of the ziocons’ bloody projects in the Middle East and Ukraine?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    Because Assad's opponents are not a small group and they will leave and be encouraged to leave if he wins. Assad's Russian backer should have it explained that Assad's total victory is unacceptable to the West, so we will give the rebels everything they need Assad doesn't stop advancing with his Russian weapons and his Iranian, Iraqi, Afghan, and Lebanese foreign legion. As Syria was never a real country anyway, if they they cannot live together it will have to be partitioned. There are also compelling reasons of prestige for Trump stopping the Russians from going any further, because letting them continue would make America look weak, not great.
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  146. Corvinus says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Corvinus, you wrote, referring to yourself, "this brown or black guy." Sorry I missed the apparently intended sarcasm.

    I stand by everything that I wrote. When my people and other innocent people are victimized by violence, intimidation, and degradation on such a massive scale and with such regularity by Africans in this country, I'm proud to point it out, work against it, and condemn people who deny it's happening or make excuses for it.

    “I stand by everything that I wrote.”

    That is your perogative to stand by inaccuracies and half-truths.

    “When my people and other innocent people are victimized by violence, intimidation, and degradation on such a massive scale and with such regularity by Africans in this country.”

    Again, crime statistics bear out that in raw numbers, white people (including Hispanics) engage in those actions you describe. Feel free to cover for “your people”.

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  147. Corvinus says:
    @Charles Erwin Wilson
    Wow Corvinus. Zinn's dishonesty wasn't enough. You have to cite professional hater Tim Wise. The same said "you are not worth saving" regarding white men, in his post:

    http://www.timwise.org/2010/11/an-open-letter-to-the-white-right-on-the-occasion-of-your-recent-successful-temper-tantrum/

    So, Corvinus, do you consider yourself unworthy of being saved? Because your BFF Tim Wise wants to dance on your grave.

    “Zinn’s dishonesty wasn’t enough. You have to cite professional hater Tim Wise. The same said “you are not worth saving” regarding white men, in his post…”

    Stick to the evidence presented. What specifically do you oppose by these individuals? See, you have to attack the information provided in the sources, not the sources themselves.

    “So, Corvinus, do you consider yourself unworthy of being saved?”

    That is for God to judge. Are you God? Perhaps prayer would do you some good.

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  148. Talha says:
    @imnobody00
    I don't discuss that you think that African and Muslim civilizations are magnificent.

    So, why can't the children of these civilizations stay in their homelands enjoying all this greatness? Why do they need to come to the decadent Western civilization?

    Imagine: being in Mali, besides the history of the Timbuktu university. Such a privilege. I have heard that millions of white people are trying to illegally immigrate into Mali and Saudi Arabia to try to enjoy the fruits of these advanced civilizations.

    I love African and Arab immigrants. This is why I don't want them to come to white countries. I prefer for them to enjoy their native civilization. Living in white countries while lecturing us about the greatness of Muslim civilization is hypocritical.

    Go to the House of Islam, dear Talha! Don't waste your time commenting in infidels' forums! Iraq, Afghanistan, Mali, Morocco, Pakistan, Jordan... the most advanced countries on Earth. The best religion on Earth (Germany is currently being enriched by it). May Allah bless your journey to these countries and let the decadent countries behind. Please take all your fellow coreligionists with you.

    Hey imnobody00,

    These are straw men. I was not saying African civilization was ‘magnificent’ I was merely defending the fact that it actually existed in the Sahel region of Africa centuries before Europeans came there. I was quite clear in using the word ‘magnificent’ in describing the material accomplishments of the West – read it again.

    Why do they need to come to the decadent Western civilization?

    There was no flood of immigrants before Libya, Iraq and Syria were shattered – let’s not put the cart before the horse. And yes, they are obviously coming for material gain – this is something our scholars have warned about. If the in tention is wrong, then I’m afraid they will lose their faith in the West withinn one or two generations.

    Living in white countries while lecturing us about the greatness of Muslim civilization is hypocritical.

    Absolutely correct – you can point out where I was lecturing about the greatness of Muslim civilization – did you even read my comments? I was even agreeing that medieval Muslim scholars are indebted to earlier European ones and that Middle Age Europe was not a piss-pot of a continent for almost a millennium as some have been taught to believe. I am a beneficiary of Western advancement in medicine, science, etc. – who isn’t? But that is not the problem facing the West right now is it? Looking at some of your previous posts you are quite on board with what I am saying and rightly calling out the ‘debauchery culture’ coming out of the US.

    As Mike pointed out, we are really negligible in our power or influence in the US. Even if we were all kicked out, the people would still have to deal with a culture that allows this nonsense to perpetuate itself:

    http://divine-interventions.com/religioustoys.php

    Go to the House of Islam, dear Talha!

    That’s not a problem – I’m not begging to stay. I know quite well what the traditional view on Muslims residing in non-Muslim countries is; that we are guests with a covenant with the ruling authorities and a social contract with the people:
    “The status of the Muslims who reside and are born in non-Muslim states is the reverse of the above non-Muslim status in a Muslim state: al-muslim bi-dhimmati l-kafir [a Muslim in the care of a non-Muslim state] and from our own Muslim and religious perspective, whether we like it or not, there are similarities to the status of a guest which should not be forgotten.”

    http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/defending_civilians.htm

    ‘Citizen’, ‘resident’, etc. aside – we are actually dhimmis in the West from the point of view of the sacred law – surprise, surprise!

    Muslims who threaten the security and people of these lands should be kicked out post-haste as non-Muslims would be from Muslim lands if they did the same.

    I know of four families that left (Jordan, Pakistan, and Madinah thus far) and one Senegalese family that is planning to. In fact, if we could get assurances that if all Muslims left there would be no military interventions or invasions into Muslim lands, I would be actively recruiting Muslims to leave the West. At this point, I have not been formally asked by the ruling authorities to leave, I have great relations with my neighbors, and my IT director has made it clear he doesn’t know what he would do without me, so right now things are working out well for everyone involved.

    Also, my wife is a White convert and (silly her) seems to think she has just as much a right to stay here as any other White person – who listens to their husbands these days?

    Peace.

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  149. Talha says:
    @epochehusserl
    I would not care to resurrect that custom but I would like to do away with white guilt seeing as though the idea that slavery is wrong originated with the whites.

    Hey epochehusserl,

    There should be no guilt about it from anyone on any side at this point – nobody legalizes slavery to my knowledge; though it exists underground or in remote areas. Nobody that you or I know ever owned a slave. And yes, religious Quakers probably get the most credit in helping to abolish slavery worldwide through the influence of the British Empire (French and Ottomans get runner up status).

    Peace.

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  150. Talha says:
    @1rw
    Talha might also be practicing Taquiya. It is permissible for Muslims to lie to infidels to achieve objectives.

    Ah yes the Taqiyya argument when one doesn’t really have ground to stand on. Peruse through my posts; I cite my sources – often many of them are from non-Muslim academics on the subject. Maybe they too practice Taqiyya.

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @1rw
    My sources are the news. Muslims are hostile. Letting them in is dangerous regardless of what some of them say
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  151. Talha says:
    @1rw
    How do you know Talha's recent ancestors didn't own slaves? The Arabs took slaves from Africa and Europe into the 19th Century. It was only the preponderance of European naval power that occurred in the 1800s that finally stopped them.

    Sorry, I’m from Pakistan – Mughal naval power left much to be desired.

    Peace.

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  152. 1rw says:
    @Talha
    Ah yes the Taqiyya argument when one doesn't really have ground to stand on. Peruse through my posts; I cite my sources - often many of them are from non-Muslim academics on the subject. Maybe they too practice Taqiyya.

    Peace.

    My sources are the news. Muslims are hostile. Letting them in is dangerous regardless of what some of them say

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    • Replies: @Talha
    "My sources are the news. NonMuslims are hostile*. Letting them in is dangerous regardless of what some of them say."

    See how that works there?

    That being said, there are some Muslims I don't want let in (even into Muslim countries) and sensible immigration policies are a win-win for all.

    Peace.

    *Thus far bombing the crap out of a few Muslim nations that never did them any harm. Muslims might be indeed sending men, women, children, elderly on barely functioning boats. But we are not guilty of sending in military-age men armed to the teeth riding around in tanks.
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  153. Sean says:
    @RadicalCenter
    Sean, there will be a Hell of a lot more people fleeing Syria if, God forbid, the US-backed Islamists overthrow Assad's government. Such as every Christian left in that country and every Alawite left in the country, as both are targeted for particular horror and extermination under the Islamic State and like "rebels." We would also likely see the flight of many of the minority-sect or simply non-insane Muslims out of Syria, as well.

    Before this US / ISIS/ Israeli effort to overthrow Assad kicked in to high gear, was Europe getting such an overwhelming number of refugees from Syria?

    IF ISRAEL WANTED TO WEAKEN HIM ALL IT HAS TO DO IS BUILD UP ITS FORCES OPPOSITE SYRIA AND ASSAD WOULD HAVE TO DIVERT RESOURCES AWAY FROM THE CIVIL WAR , ISRAELIS HAVE NOT DONE THIS.

    Assad stated with a not insubstantial army, professional officer corps, heavy weapons and he was looking like he could lose Aleppo when the Russians came in. He has has Russian Iranian, Iraqi, Lebanese and Iranian (lots of Iranian troops fighting for him. The obvious conclusion is that Assad cannot count on the support of the majority (call them what you will) and if he is allowed to reconquer al Syria they will leave.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Perhaps the nations that you mention support Assad because they see a benefit to having a stable society as a neighbour. It is quite obvious that the vast majority of refugees fleeing the fall of the last strongholds in Aleppo have gone to the pro-Assad controlled areas. The so-called rebels or "moderate" terrorists fleeing to 'safe areas' have numbered only a few thousand out of the claimed 250000 total.

    Whatever sort of a dictator or "fiend" Assad was for the last twenty years there is abundant video evidence showing that he ruled over a functioning and largely peaceful society. One glance at pictures of what exists today that these brutes have left behind shows utter destruction and they deserve little mercy.
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  154. Talha says:
    @1rw
    My sources are the news. Muslims are hostile. Letting them in is dangerous regardless of what some of them say

    “My sources are the news. NonMuslims are hostile*. Letting them in is dangerous regardless of what some of them say.”

    See how that works there?

    That being said, there are some Muslims I don’t want let in (even into Muslim countries) and sensible immigration policies are a win-win for all.

    Peace.

    *Thus far bombing the crap out of a few Muslim nations that never did them any harm. Muslims might be indeed sending men, women, children, elderly on barely functioning boats. But we are not guilty of sending in military-age men armed to the teeth riding around in tanks.

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    Muslims are guilty of sending in armies into (and I don't think this is a complete list)
    -Persia
    -Jerusalem
    -Constantinople
    -The Balkans
    -Iberian Pinensula
    -France
    -Austria
    -India
    -Georgia
    -Armenia

    Their current weakness in conventional military capability leaves them with few options other than terror attacks. However, this was not always so. And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again
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  155. Sean says:
    @Thirdeye

    If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad and his Russian allies win the civil war then there will be 10 million refugees coming to Europe as Putin as his puppet laugh up their sleeves.
     
    Bullshit. Al Qaeda/ISIS are the ones displacing people and most of the displaced people stayed within Syria.

    Would you stay in Syria if you had an excuse for getting into Europe, eh?

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  156. Sean says:
    @annamaria
    "If Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad..."
    Why are you so agitated about the alleged dictatorial nature of Assad? The kingdom of Saud (the ultimate dictatorship), makes Israel's bosom buddy but this does not bother you at all, despite the Saudi's bloody support of liver eaters and head choppers.
    The Middle Eastern wars are the acknowledged cause of the waves of refugees (and sub-Saharan migrants with low IQ) to Europe. The wars have been run for the major war profiteers but the ideology of the US interventions in Iraq, Syria, and Libya was formulated by the US ziocons, the dreamers of Eretz Israel. The wars - and the waves of desperate refugees - are the tragic consequence of tribal viciousness.
    By the way, FOX news and other MSM presstituting sources of disinformation are not particularly honest about the civil war in Syria, specifically about Aleppo. Or, perhaps, you rely on the wisdom of Bellingcat (expert in selling the ladies underwear) or certain White Helmets (affiliates with Al Qaeda)? http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/20/the-white-helmets-black-record-vanessa-beeley-talks-to-rt-about-french-government-collusion-with-al-qaeda-linked-group/

    "...what the hugely expensive millitary forces of the West are for. They must be used now."
    Yes, in the ideal world, the US should disengage, ASAP, from the interventions in the Middle East and start helping Europe to protect itself from the African migrants, whereas the enormous money that the MIC is sacking out from the US should be allocated, as a new Marshall Plan, to restore the ruined secular states in the Middle East. This would stop the march of refugees and would make Israel behave reasonably.

    "...we have to confront Russia..."
    Who are these "we?" - Has not US had more than enough of the ziocons' bloody projects in the Middle East and Ukraine?

    Because Assad’s opponents are not a small group and they will leave and be encouraged to leave if he wins. Assad’s Russian backer should have it explained that Assad’s total victory is unacceptable to the West, so we will give the rebels everything they need Assad doesn’t stop advancing with his Russian weapons and his Iranian, Iraqi, Afghan, and Lebanese foreign legion. As Syria was never a real country anyway, if they they cannot live together it will have to be partitioned. There are also compelling reasons of prestige for Trump stopping the Russians from going any further, because letting them continue would make America look weak, not great.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "... we will give the rebels everything they need Assad doesn’t stop advancing with his Russian weapons... As Syria was never a real country anyway ... it will have to be partitioned."
    1. "we will give.." - meaning of course that the US citizens should pay for the lunatic project of Eretz Israel by arming and financing "moderate" jihadis and other affiliates of Al Qaeda. Thanks but no thanks.
    2. "Syria was never a real country anyway" - this is rich from the mouth of an Israeli living in an artificial state that has broken all international rules, as well as all moral rules as they were articulated during the Nuremberg Process
    3. "it [Syria] will have to be partitioned." - An easily recognizable voice of a true zionist, inventing various unprincipled excuses for paving a road to hell with the supposedly pious intentions of tribal solidarity.
    4. "because letting them [Russians] continue would make America look weak, not great." - the zionists' projects in the Middle East and Ukraine have already inflicted incalculable harm to the US and these projects made America not just "look weak, not great" but stupid. The harm extends from the "lost" $6 trillions during the last 15 years of wars for Eretz Israel and up to the corrupted academic and political worlds that both suffer from the Lobby' blackmailing.

    Stop playing with the fire. The Jewish Bolsheviks had already tried their obnoxious projects in Russia some hundred years ago, and this trial has ended in a terrible tragedy that included the elimination of the best in brightest in Russia, including the best and brightest Jews there. Nowadays the arrogant projects against Russia are heading towards a nuclear conflict.

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  157. 1rw says:
    @Talha
    "My sources are the news. NonMuslims are hostile*. Letting them in is dangerous regardless of what some of them say."

    See how that works there?

    That being said, there are some Muslims I don't want let in (even into Muslim countries) and sensible immigration policies are a win-win for all.

    Peace.

    *Thus far bombing the crap out of a few Muslim nations that never did them any harm. Muslims might be indeed sending men, women, children, elderly on barely functioning boats. But we are not guilty of sending in military-age men armed to the teeth riding around in tanks.

    Muslims are guilty of sending in armies into (and I don’t think this is a complete list)
    -Persia
    -Jerusalem
    -Constantinople
    -The Balkans
    -Iberian Pinensula
    -France
    -Austria
    -India
    -Georgia
    -Armenia

    Their current weakness in conventional military capability leaves them with few options other than terror attacks. However, this was not always so. And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Oh please man -are you seriously bringing up pre-modern norms. Everyone invaded everyone...

    Everyone?

    EVERYONE!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTsuvykUZk

    The rule in the day was expand or be expanded upon. Which is why immediately after kicking out the Muslims, the Spanish and Portuguese empires unleashed their fearsome navies halfway across the world - what did the Mayans do to them?

    When you live next to the Sassanid and Byzantine Empires, you learn to speak the tongue of sword and spear. And you learn it well or you don't survive.

    Now, after the butchery of World War II, the nations got together and said - enough! We cannot do this anymore, the stakes are too high. We are talking about the age of international law of which both non-Muslim and Muslim nations are signatory to. Or do you really want to go back to the law of the jungle?

    If you want bring in pre-modern, then everyone has a hell of a lot of explaining to do:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymI5Uv5cGU4

    EVERYONE!

    Peace.
    , @L.K
    I ain't Muslim and do not support large numbers of muslims in Europe.

    That being said, you r clearly pretty biased and disingenuous when it comes to Muslim invasions and such.

    "Their current weakness in conventional military capability leaves them with few options other than terror attacks. However, this was not always so. And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again"

    Hmm... the same could be said, in all truth, of Euros or people of Euro descent, throughout the times.
    In pre-Christian times, once some became strong enough, Macedonians and later the Romans, they did plenty of invading left and right.

    After the fall of Rome, for a while, the Christian European kingdoms were far too weak... so they stopped marching abroad. Once they became militarily powerful again, various European forces were once again on the march... they still are, nowadays in the shape of the Zio-anglo-american Empire.
    The US has been at war for over 90% of its existence, a really depraved record, almost all of them, wars of choice.

    As for Muslim 'terror', the whole thing is a freaking hoax.

    The US and the UK, fRANCE too, have long been involved with radical Islam and islamic terrorism.
    They use them strategically.
    ISIS, btw, only exists bc of the US and its allies.

    "And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again"

    Right... I don't think so, but, IF that ever happens, then we'll give it some thought, eh sport?
    Until then, let's focus on the real terrorists and warmongers....
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  158. Talha says:
    @1rw
    Muslims are guilty of sending in armies into (and I don't think this is a complete list)
    -Persia
    -Jerusalem
    -Constantinople
    -The Balkans
    -Iberian Pinensula
    -France
    -Austria
    -India
    -Georgia
    -Armenia

    Their current weakness in conventional military capability leaves them with few options other than terror attacks. However, this was not always so. And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again

    Oh please man -are you seriously bringing up pre-modern norms. Everyone invaded everyone…

    Everyone?

    EVERYONE!

    The rule in the day was expand or be expanded upon. Which is why immediately after kicking out the Muslims, the Spanish and Portuguese empires unleashed their fearsome navies halfway across the world – what did the Mayans do to them?

    When you live next to the Sassanid and Byzantine Empires, you learn to speak the tongue of sword and spear. And you learn it well or you don’t survive.

    Now, after the butchery of World War II, the nations got together and said – enough! We cannot do this anymore, the stakes are too high. We are talking about the age of international law of which both non-Muslim and Muslim nations are signatory to. Or do you really want to go back to the law of the jungle?

    If you want bring in pre-modern, then everyone has a hell of a lot of explaining to do:

    EVERYONE!

    Peace.

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    • Replies: @1rw
    Muslims are fairly "pre-modern" as you put it. Which is why they need to be confined to their countries until such time as brutal military dictators can break the ties between religion and government, between dispute resolution and clan networks, and establish the state's monopoly on legitimate violence.

    If they don't wish to do this, it is understandable, but they must not be allowed to settle in Christian lands.
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  159. 1rw says:
    @Talha
    Oh please man -are you seriously bringing up pre-modern norms. Everyone invaded everyone...

    Everyone?

    EVERYONE!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrTsuvykUZk

    The rule in the day was expand or be expanded upon. Which is why immediately after kicking out the Muslims, the Spanish and Portuguese empires unleashed their fearsome navies halfway across the world - what did the Mayans do to them?

    When you live next to the Sassanid and Byzantine Empires, you learn to speak the tongue of sword and spear. And you learn it well or you don't survive.

    Now, after the butchery of World War II, the nations got together and said - enough! We cannot do this anymore, the stakes are too high. We are talking about the age of international law of which both non-Muslim and Muslim nations are signatory to. Or do you really want to go back to the law of the jungle?

    If you want bring in pre-modern, then everyone has a hell of a lot of explaining to do:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymI5Uv5cGU4

    EVERYONE!

    Peace.

    Muslims are fairly “pre-modern” as you put it. Which is why they need to be confined to their countries until such time as brutal military dictators can break the ties between religion and government, between dispute resolution and clan networks, and establish the state’s monopoly on legitimate violence.

    If they don’t wish to do this, it is understandable, but they must not be allowed to settle in Christian lands.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Muslims are fairly “pre-modern”
     
    In some circles this is a pejorative - in others, a badge to wear with honor. But yes, I should have been more specific about pre-UN - because even the bloodbath in WW2 was quite 'modern'.

    brutal military dictators can break the ties between religion and government
     
    They tried - it hasn't work yet - Kemal Ataturk's vision was a pipe dream. If the people are religious, they will want their government to reflect that ethos.

    they must not be allowed to settle in Christian lands
     
    Meh - convince the government to rescind residency status; what can we do, we're just dhimmis. :)

    What I find interesting is that non-Muslims used to find refuge in Muslim lands at times from being oppressed (sometimes by a different faction of their co-religionists). Of course it depended on policies of the rulers and the age, but it was a historically-noted phenomenon. For instance - the Thirty Years War:
    “During those troubled decades, the empire also became a haven for the religiously oppressed. In the mid seventeenth century, for example, a cluster of Huguenots, forced into exile from France, resided in Istanbul, and several Anglican clergymen who had fled commonwealth England, Quakers, Anabaptists, and even Catholic Jesuits and Capuchins settled in and wandered through the empire. Such an eclectic mixture of Christians suggests that North America was not the only refuge for western European religious dissenters in the early colonial period. Indeed, it was generally understood that spiritually oppressed Christians as well as Jews could find sanctuary in the Ottoman Empire.”
    The Ottoman Empire and Early Modern Europe

    “The British admired the Ottoman Empire’s orderly government, educational system, and discipline. During a time of such religious turbulence, the British also admired Ottoman tolerance for other religious groups, which sat well with Anglo-Protestant sensibilities but contrasted with the rest of Europe. An example of Ottoman tolerance was the policy to allow Protestant refugees fleeing Catholic persecution into lands under Ottoman control. In addition, Christians in Turkey were permitted via the millet system to maintain churches and had the freedom to practice Christianity without persecution.”
    http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/04/09/those-crazy-christians/

    Even centuries earlier:
    "Instead Nestorians found sanctuary under Islamic rule where their doctrines were closer to those of the Muslims...the persecution of more extreme heresies continued. They included the Paulician sect, which was brutally suppressed by the Byzantine authorities...At the start of the 11th century a related sect called the T'ondrakeci was still recorded, many of its surviving remnants fleeing to Islamic territory where some of its followers, the supposedly 'sun worshipping' Areworik fought for Damascus during the 12th century."
    Manzikert 1071: The breaking of Byzantium

    I mean, its totally their prerogative whether they want to allow Muslims in or not, but are you really saying that current governments and people are at a loss as to how to absorb populations from a different religion (whether refugee or not) where the Ottomans and Abbasids could?

    Peace.

    , @dfordoom

    Muslims are fairly “pre-modern”
     
    We'd be better off if Christianity could return to its pre-modern roots.
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  160. Talha says:
    @1rw
    Muslims are fairly "pre-modern" as you put it. Which is why they need to be confined to their countries until such time as brutal military dictators can break the ties between religion and government, between dispute resolution and clan networks, and establish the state's monopoly on legitimate violence.

    If they don't wish to do this, it is understandable, but they must not be allowed to settle in Christian lands.

    Muslims are fairly “pre-modern”

    In some circles this is a pejorative – in others, a badge to wear with honor. But yes, I should have been more specific about pre-UN – because even the bloodbath in WW2 was quite ‘modern’.

    brutal military dictators can break the ties between religion and government

    They tried – it hasn’t work yet – Kemal Ataturk’s vision was a pipe dream. If the people are religious, they will want their government to reflect that ethos.

    they must not be allowed to settle in Christian lands

    Meh – convince the government to rescind residency status; what can we do, we’re just dhimmis. :)

    What I find interesting is that non-Muslims used to find refuge in Muslim lands at times from being oppressed (sometimes by a different faction of their co-religionists). Of course it depended on policies of the rulers and the age, but it was a historically-noted phenomenon. For instance – the Thirty Years War:
    “During those troubled decades, the empire also became a haven for the religiously oppressed. In the mid seventeenth century, for example, a cluster of Huguenots, forced into exile from France, resided in Istanbul, and several Anglican clergymen who had fled commonwealth England, Quakers, Anabaptists, and even Catholic Jesuits and Capuchins settled in and wandered through the empire. Such an eclectic mixture of Christians suggests that North America was not the only refuge for western European religious dissenters in the early colonial period. Indeed, it was generally understood that spiritually oppressed Christians as well as Jews could find sanctuary in the Ottoman Empire.”
    The Ottoman Empire and Early Modern Europe

    “The British admired the Ottoman Empire’s orderly government, educational system, and discipline. During a time of such religious turbulence, the British also admired Ottoman tolerance for other religious groups, which sat well with Anglo-Protestant sensibilities but contrasted with the rest of Europe. An example of Ottoman tolerance was the policy to allow Protestant refugees fleeing Catholic persecution into lands under Ottoman control. In addition, Christians in Turkey were permitted via the millet system to maintain churches and had the freedom to practice Christianity without persecution.”

    http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/04/09/those-crazy-christians/

    Even centuries earlier:
    “Instead Nestorians found sanctuary under Islamic rule where their doctrines were closer to those of the Muslims…the persecution of more extreme heresies continued. They included the Paulician sect, which was brutally suppressed by the Byzantine authorities…At the start of the 11th century a related sect called the T’ondrakeci was still recorded, many of its surviving remnants fleeing to Islamic territory where some of its followers, the supposedly ‘sun worshipping’ Areworik fought for Damascus during the 12th century.”
    Manzikert 1071: The breaking of Byzantium

    I mean, its totally their prerogative whether they want to allow Muslims in or not, but are you really saying that current governments and people are at a loss as to how to absorb populations from a different religion (whether refugee or not) where the Ottomans and Abbasids could?

    Peace.

    Read More
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  161. I was just thinking those things myself.I said ‘Self “What is the existential threat for humanity?”
    Self congratulates self and moves to the next topic of conversation.
    Great Expectations; The end is not yet insight.Don’t be upset.Look to the New Year and build your plans slowly.
    Remember, Itz a long life.
    Enjoy the Sunlight, the natural sunlight.

    Read More
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  162. 1rw says:

    Ottoman Turks treated non-Muslim subjects as second class citizens. This included kidnapping and enslaving children of their Christian subjects and turning them into soldiers to kill more Christians. Same goes for any Muslim government because Dhimmitude is enshrined in Islam. In a normal country, that is a white Christian country Muslim immigrants are not Dhimmies. They are full citizens with all the rights and protections. Of course, they cannot be counted on to fulfill the incumbent obligations. So the West needs to figure this out and stop letting the buggers in, regardless of foreign policy.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    Ottoman Turks treated non-Muslim subjects as second class citizens.
     
    Absolutely true. But when one is a peasant or cobbler moving out from under some other monarchy, that doesn't matter much. Being able to skip a border and suddenly not be tortured or killed for your particular 'heresy' is a privilege. And the Ottomans let refugees know they were coming in on the Ottoman's terms - they would brook no threat to their social order.

    This included kidnapping and enslaving children of their Christian subjects
     
    Yes - the devshirme (a gross violation of the dhimmi contract) which none of the rulers before or after the Ottomans ever did - and which the Ottomans themselves abolished when they came to their senses:
    "This effectively enslaved some of the sultan's own non-Islamic subjects and was therefore illegal under Islamic law, which stipulated that conquered non-Muslims should be demilitarized and protected."
    Conflict and Conquest in the Islamic World: A Historical Encyclopedia

    Ottomans and their vassals did a lot of un-Islamic things, like their takeover of Egypt from the Mamlukes that would have impressed Cosa Nostra:
    "By 1811 Muhammad Ali (aka OG Thugg Pasha - my title) was strong enough to deal with the Mamelukes. He organised a grand ceremonial procession in Cairo to which he invited some 500 Mameluke notables. Assembled in the citadel, they were warmly welcomed and treated to coffee, sweetmeats and polite conversation, but when the time came for the procession they had to go down a narrow, winding passageway between high walls in single file. Suddenly the gates at each end were slammed shut and the Wali’s soldiers appeared on top of the walls and opened a murderous fire with muskets. All or possibly all but one of the Mamelukes were killed. More Mamelukes were swiftly hunted down and killed in Cairo and elsewhere in Egypt, to a total of perhaps 3,000."
    http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/mamelukes-are-massacred-egypt

    Same goes for any Muslim government because Dhimmitude is enshrined in Islam.
     
    This is also true, it is a sacred trust which we keep having to remind our extremists. When the bombing happened in Egypt at the church, a scholar I know (of both the Hanafi and Maliki schools) sent out a message saying:
    "To break the ancient pact of security of the Companions (ra) is an act of disgraceful treachery w/o excuse."

    This is no joke - the Copts of Egypt were given their word by the first generation - later generations have zero right to renege on this pact.

    But modern day dhimmi arrangements are not too bad in most countries (at least on paper). There aren't many restrictions for a non-Muslim in Malaysia or Morocco other than the classics like; can't marry Muslim women, can't blaspheme, can't proselytize to Muslims, etc. But the sumptuary laws are basically gone - like where you have to dress different (wear funny caps) or can't ride a horse, or can't own weapons, etc. Muslim countries may have legal restrictions on the religion of those who can hold high office or military command - but that is to ensure the social order is not upturned (which incidentally is currently the fear from boat people).

    Is this a good or bad thing? Well, if you told Americans at the beginning of the 20th century that their Supreme Court would be completely run by Catholics and Jews in a hundred years, they may have thought you insane.

    Ignorant and extremist mob violence is unfortunately still a problem in the Muslim world.

    Muslim immigrants are not Dhimmies
     
    We are from the perspective of our sacred law - ;) .

    They are full citizens with all the rights and protections.
     
    No doubt, Muslims have more rights in the West than non-Muslims in the Muslim world. That goes without saying. However, these rights are also flexible; minaret ban in Switzerland and 'burkini' ban in parts of France being examples. Quite a few people on this forum would like me to be registered in a database - which is fine, I don't really have anything to hide and can be identified by my beard and kufi a mile away anyway - one more bureaucracy isn't going to bust the budget. I think.

    So the West needs to figure this out and stop letting the buggers in, regardless of foreign policy.
     
    Sounds quite reasonable given the conundrum.

    Peace.
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  163. @Sean
    IF ISRAEL WANTED TO WEAKEN HIM ALL IT HAS TO DO IS BUILD UP ITS FORCES OPPOSITE SYRIA AND ASSAD WOULD HAVE TO DIVERT RESOURCES AWAY FROM THE CIVIL WAR , ISRAELIS HAVE NOT DONE THIS.

    Assad stated with a not insubstantial army, professional officer corps, heavy weapons and he was looking like he could lose Aleppo when the Russians came in. He has has Russian Iranian, Iraqi, Lebanese and Iranian (lots of Iranian troops fighting for him. The obvious conclusion is that Assad cannot count on the support of the majority (call them what you will) and if he is allowed to reconquer al Syria they will leave.

    Perhaps the nations that you mention support Assad because they see a benefit to having a stable society as a neighbour. It is quite obvious that the vast majority of refugees fleeing the fall of the last strongholds in Aleppo have gone to the pro-Assad controlled areas. The so-called rebels or “moderate” terrorists fleeing to ‘safe areas’ have numbered only a few thousand out of the claimed 250000 total.

    Whatever sort of a dictator or “fiend” Assad was for the last twenty years there is abundant video evidence showing that he ruled over a functioning and largely peaceful society. One glance at pictures of what exists today that these brutes have left behind shows utter destruction and they deserve little mercy.

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  164. annamaria says:
    @Sean
    Because Assad's opponents are not a small group and they will leave and be encouraged to leave if he wins. Assad's Russian backer should have it explained that Assad's total victory is unacceptable to the West, so we will give the rebels everything they need Assad doesn't stop advancing with his Russian weapons and his Iranian, Iraqi, Afghan, and Lebanese foreign legion. As Syria was never a real country anyway, if they they cannot live together it will have to be partitioned. There are also compelling reasons of prestige for Trump stopping the Russians from going any further, because letting them continue would make America look weak, not great.

    “… we will give the rebels everything they need Assad doesn’t stop advancing with his Russian weapons… As Syria was never a real country anyway … it will have to be partitioned.”
    1. “we will give..” – meaning of course that the US citizens should pay for the lunatic project of Eretz Israel by arming and financing “moderate” jihadis and other affiliates of Al Qaeda. Thanks but no thanks.
    2. “Syria was never a real country anyway” – this is rich from the mouth of an Israeli living in an artificial state that has broken all international rules, as well as all moral rules as they were articulated during the Nuremberg Process
    3. “it [Syria] will have to be partitioned.” – An easily recognizable voice of a true zionist, inventing various unprincipled excuses for paving a road to hell with the supposedly pious intentions of tribal solidarity.
    4. “because letting them [Russians] continue would make America look weak, not great.” – the zionists’ projects in the Middle East and Ukraine have already inflicted incalculable harm to the US and these projects made America not just “look weak, not great” but stupid. The harm extends from the “lost” $6 trillions during the last 15 years of wars for Eretz Israel and up to the corrupted academic and political worlds that both suffer from the Lobby’ blackmailing.

    Stop playing with the fire. The Jewish Bolsheviks had already tried their obnoxious projects in Russia some hundred years ago, and this trial has ended in a terrible tragedy that included the elimination of the best in brightest in Russia, including the best and brightest Jews there. Nowadays the arrogant projects against Russia are heading towards a nuclear conflict.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    The Russian intervention started with them speaking softly and carrying a small stick and saying they had limited objectives.. Nothing was done because ISIS was the apparent problem and Russia soon actually announced they were finished and definitely going to leave (remember that?). The Russia-Iranian ) forces are now large and advancing as they please. Putin understands that the West is about to tell him to stop and that is why he spoke threateningly a couple of days ago about Russia's nuclear capabilities.

    Trump instantly made his own statement about a American nuclear build up. These veiled menaces (Putin said 'We are stronger now than anyone') are bluff, all talk, no one would use nukes unless the enemy did first. Conventional defeats would have to be accepted. Russia started the nuclear blustering because it is not stronger that the US in any respect. Syrian rebels plus US weapons would halt the Russian advance.

    It is not a quirk of Trump's that he responded in kind, any leader of the US is constrained to act thus; it's a zero sum game.

    Given the difficulty of determining how much power is enough for today and tomorrow, great powers recognize that the best way to ensure their security is to achieve hegemony now, thus eliminating any possibility of a challenge by another great power. Only a misguided state would pass up an opportunity to be the hegemon in the system because it thought it already had sufficient power to survive.
     
    How can US Jews do anything but applaud if Trump saves Israel from becoming a non Jewish or pariah Apartheid state, which is a fate that Ehud Barak, Martin Van Creveld and others of similar stature have foreseen to be inevitable.
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  165. Talha says:
    @1rw
    Ottoman Turks treated non-Muslim subjects as second class citizens. This included kidnapping and enslaving children of their Christian subjects and turning them into soldiers to kill more Christians. Same goes for any Muslim government because Dhimmitude is enshrined in Islam. In a normal country, that is a white Christian country Muslim immigrants are not Dhimmies. They are full citizens with all the rights and protections. Of course, they cannot be counted on to fulfill the incumbent obligations. So the West needs to figure this out and stop letting the buggers in, regardless of foreign policy.

    Ottoman Turks treated non-Muslim subjects as second class citizens.

    Absolutely true. But when one is a peasant or cobbler moving out from under some other monarchy, that doesn’t matter much. Being able to skip a border and suddenly not be tortured or killed for your particular ‘heresy’ is a privilege. And the Ottomans let refugees know they were coming in on the Ottoman’s terms – they would brook no threat to their social order.

    This included kidnapping and enslaving children of their Christian subjects

    Yes – the devshirme (a gross violation of the dhimmi contract) which none of the rulers before or after the Ottomans ever did – and which the Ottomans themselves abolished when they came to their senses:
    “This effectively enslaved some of the sultan’s own non-Islamic subjects and was therefore illegal under Islamic law, which stipulated that conquered non-Muslims should be demilitarized and protected.”
    Conflict and Conquest in the Islamic World: A Historical Encyclopedia

    Ottomans and their vassals did a lot of un-Islamic things, like their takeover of Egypt from the Mamlukes that would have impressed Cosa Nostra:
    “By 1811 Muhammad Ali (aka OG Thugg Pasha – my title) was strong enough to deal with the Mamelukes. He organised a grand ceremonial procession in Cairo to which he invited some 500 Mameluke notables. Assembled in the citadel, they were warmly welcomed and treated to coffee, sweetmeats and polite conversation, but when the time came for the procession they had to go down a narrow, winding passageway between high walls in single file. Suddenly the gates at each end were slammed shut and the Wali’s soldiers appeared on top of the walls and opened a murderous fire with muskets. All or possibly all but one of the Mamelukes were killed. More Mamelukes were swiftly hunted down and killed in Cairo and elsewhere in Egypt, to a total of perhaps 3,000.”

    http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/mamelukes-are-massacred-egypt

    Same goes for any Muslim government because Dhimmitude is enshrined in Islam.

    This is also true, it is a sacred trust which we keep having to remind our extremists. When the bombing happened in Egypt at the church, a scholar I know (of both the Hanafi and Maliki schools) sent out a message saying:
    “To break the ancient pact of security of the Companions (ra) is an act of disgraceful treachery w/o excuse.”

    This is no joke – the Copts of Egypt were given their word by the first generation – later generations have zero right to renege on this pact.

    But modern day dhimmi arrangements are not too bad in most countries (at least on paper). There aren’t many restrictions for a non-Muslim in Malaysia or Morocco other than the classics like; can’t marry Muslim women, can’t blaspheme, can’t proselytize to Muslims, etc. But the sumptuary laws are basically gone – like where you have to dress different (wear funny caps) or can’t ride a horse, or can’t own weapons, etc. Muslim countries may have legal restrictions on the religion of those who can hold high office or military command – but that is to ensure the social order is not upturned (which incidentally is currently the fear from boat people).

    Is this a good or bad thing? Well, if you told Americans at the beginning of the 20th century that their Supreme Court would be completely run by Catholics and Jews in a hundred years, they may have thought you insane.

    Ignorant and extremist mob violence is unfortunately still a problem in the Muslim world.

    Muslim immigrants are not Dhimmies

    We are from the perspective of our sacred law – ;) .

    They are full citizens with all the rights and protections.

    No doubt, Muslims have more rights in the West than non-Muslims in the Muslim world. That goes without saying. However, these rights are also flexible; minaret ban in Switzerland and ‘burkini’ ban in parts of France being examples. Quite a few people on this forum would like me to be registered in a database – which is fine, I don’t really have anything to hide and can be identified by my beard and kufi a mile away anyway – one more bureaucracy isn’t going to bust the budget. I think.

    So the West needs to figure this out and stop letting the buggers in, regardless of foreign policy.

    Sounds quite reasonable given the conundrum.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    We finally agree

    Muslims cannot be muslim and be full citizens in western countries, because western laws are based on equal protection for all citizens. Therefore the only rational solution is for the west to prohibit Muslim settlement in their countries.

    Coexistence is impossible on terms favorable for Western/Christian countries.
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  166. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anon
    I think at this point, even if Israel didn't exist, EU would go on committing suicide because its Christian morality has grown cancerous. EU is post-Christian but still rooted in the mindset of guilt-seeking-redemption and self-righteousness.

    Take Sweden. These crazies see themselves as a 'moral superpower'. It's not just people trying to be kindly and decent. It's a form of hubris.

    It's like a ethno-ego-trip or ethgo-trip.

    And even though NYT came to laud Merkel, the crazy hag came up with Welcome Idea on her own. And those German morons are likely to reelect her.

    Take Sweden. These crazies see themselves as a ‘moral superpower’. It’s not just people trying to be kindly and decent. It’s a form of hubris.

    It’s the Sin of Pride.

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  167. Sam Shama says:
    @Talha
    Hey dc.sunsets,

    Everything is already PAWNED.
     
    That is 'the suck'...that is also 'the true'. How many generations forward will we have to pay off this debt with?

    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies...The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

    https://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation

    Peace.

    Hey Talha and dc.sunsets

    The controversy surrounding debt is an old one, mired in cant and therefore entangled in a misunderstanding of inter-temporal fluctuations of output.

    To be clear, this is not an advocacy for uncontrolled debt levels, but instead an attempt to arrive at a balanced understanding of the role of debt.

    One could, for instance, accept a level of debt [or credit] tied to a productive item, say the varying stock of microprocessors, total known crude deposits or any other tangible and easily measurable asset. If one accepts that such a scheme is desirable, is it not a small logical step to conclude, what is commonly called fiat, is little else than a level of credit/total money in circulation tied to the total stock of sovereign assets of the issuing nation?

    [It isn't expressly useful a measure when debt levels are ratioed to income or gdp, which is a flow variable. Still, people do it, mostly as a heuristic aid. ]

    Gold is not an asset in the sense a microprocessor is. Furthermore, it fatally fails in that it exacerbates both recessionary and inflationary episodes when the need calls for a counter-cyclical measure.

    So setting aside the gold standard and conceding for a moment that fiat debt is optimal in our best understanding, whether it is issued directly by the treasury or a central bank is a question which tackles the thorny problem of election-cycle politics influencing the actions of the treasury. Each party would be accusing the one in power of gearing the economy during election years! That much is guaranteed. In theory, an independent CB solves this issue and I daresay this is my contention as well.

    Now, whether debt needs to exist at all; whether we should have a totally debt free economy operating solely on savings is easily addressed: If current savings were the only source of financing [spurring on] enterprise, we’d end up with little doubt, in the days of the past when the sovereign monarch and nobility had all the savings, lent only under burdensome, strict terms to indentured labour [one might ask 'is it any different today'? to which I'd reply 'assuredly so']

    Extension of debt in the modern nation, therefore, is a means to facilitate enterprise of the talented citizenry and therefore smooth inter-temporal output. The question in my mind reduces therefore, to what is the optimal level of debt, not whether we should have it at all. Without it, we are merely yearning for the relatively impoverished, uninspired, but perhaps bucolic past :-)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Sam,

    Good stuff - I don't think one can move away from debt entirely, but this level of debt is unsustainable and the system is set up that some people are in the right place to benefit from the ups and downs while others do not have those protections.

    Your knowledge on this subject exceeds mine for sure, but I find it interesting that economic activity in Islam has classically been pinned to both gold and silver in a dual metal-based standard to guard from too much pressure on one or the other. Could the old gold-standard be extended to all precious metals? I honestly don't know enough to give my speculations much weight.

    Peace.
    , @another fred

    The question in my mind reduces therefore, to what is the optimal level of debt, not whether we should have it at all.
     
    I would suggest to you again that the problem is the rate of increase relative to the rate of increase of output, not the level. Granted this will vary over time, but if the rate of increase of debt exceeds the rate of "real growth" (whatever that is) for an extended period, then one is headed for serious trouble (in my opinion and also that of others more illustrious than me).

    Most succinctly by Von Mises:

    There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.
     
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  168. Talha says:
    @Sam Shama
    Hey Talha and dc.sunsets

    The controversy surrounding debt is an old one, mired in cant and therefore entangled in a misunderstanding of inter-temporal fluctuations of output.

    To be clear, this is not an advocacy for uncontrolled debt levels, but instead an attempt to arrive at a balanced understanding of the role of debt.

    One could, for instance, accept a level of debt [or credit] tied to a productive item, say the varying stock of microprocessors, total known crude deposits or any other tangible and easily measurable asset. If one accepts that such a scheme is desirable, is it not a small logical step to conclude, what is commonly called fiat, is little else than a level of credit/total money in circulation tied to the total stock of sovereign assets of the issuing nation?

    [It isn't expressly useful a measure when debt levels are ratioed to income or gdp, which is a flow variable. Still, people do it, mostly as a heuristic aid. ]

    Gold is not an asset in the sense a microprocessor is. Furthermore, it fatally fails in that it exacerbates both recessionary and inflationary episodes when the need calls for a counter-cyclical measure.

    So setting aside the gold standard and conceding for a moment that fiat debt is optimal in our best understanding, whether it is issued directly by the treasury or a central bank is a question which tackles the thorny problem of election-cycle politics influencing the actions of the treasury. Each party would be accusing the one in power of gearing the economy during election years! That much is guaranteed. In theory, an independent CB solves this issue and I daresay this is my contention as well.

    Now, whether debt needs to exist at all; whether we should have a totally debt free economy operating solely on savings is easily addressed: If current savings were the only source of financing [spurring on] enterprise, we'd end up with little doubt, in the days of the past when the sovereign monarch and nobility had all the savings, lent only under burdensome, strict terms to indentured labour [one might ask 'is it any different today'? to which I'd reply 'assuredly so']

    Extension of debt in the modern nation, therefore, is a means to facilitate enterprise of the talented citizenry and therefore smooth inter-temporal output. The question in my mind reduces therefore, to what is the optimal level of debt, not whether we should have it at all. Without it, we are merely yearning for the relatively impoverished, uninspired, but perhaps bucolic past :-)

    Hey Sam,

    Good stuff – I don’t think one can move away from debt entirely, but this level of debt is unsustainable and the system is set up that some people are in the right place to benefit from the ups and downs while others do not have those protections.

    Your knowledge on this subject exceeds mine for sure, but I find it interesting that economic activity in Islam has classically been pinned to both gold and silver in a dual metal-based standard to guard from too much pressure on one or the other. Could the old gold-standard be extended to all precious metals? I honestly don’t know enough to give my speculations much weight.

    Peace.

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  169. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Talha
    Hey Mike,

    The moral degeneration of the West...
     
    Is the biggest issue in my book - the rot within is far more important than the external threats:
    "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

    Or put another way:
    "By Allah, it is not poverty I fear for you, but rather I fear you will be given the wealth of the world just as it was given to those before you. You will compete for it just as they competed for it and it will destroy you just as it destroyed them." - reported in Bukhari

    Western civilation can sprint faster than all other runners but...leaves you out of breath after the first lap.
     
    A variation on Aesop's fable of profound wisdom; the hare doesn't lie down to sleep, instead he is sidelined with a sprain.

    Either way:
    Hare - 0
    Tortoise - 1

    Peace.

    The moral degeneration of the West…

    Is the biggest issue in my book – the rot within is far more important than the external threats

    I totally agree.

    Those people in those boats are not the enemy. They present no threat at all to western civilisation. Any half decent coast guard could stop them entering Europe. They’re not stopped because Europeans are not prepared to stop them. Europeans are not prepared to stop them because Western Europe is hopelessly decadent and morally degenerate, obsessed by virtue-signalling and self-hatred.

    Focusing on the immigrants, legal or illegal, is missing the point. Unless the West addresses what you quite rightly call the “rot within” then western civilisation will continue to lurch towards disaster. Feminism, the aggressive homosexual lobby, consumerism, mindless hedonism, atheism, nihilism – these are the signs of the rot within. If the rot is not reversed then western civilisation is finished.

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  170. dfordoom says: • Website
    @1rw
    Muslims are fairly "pre-modern" as you put it. Which is why they need to be confined to their countries until such time as brutal military dictators can break the ties between religion and government, between dispute resolution and clan networks, and establish the state's monopoly on legitimate violence.

    If they don't wish to do this, it is understandable, but they must not be allowed to settle in Christian lands.

    Muslims are fairly “pre-modern”

    We’d be better off if Christianity could return to its pre-modern roots.

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw
    I concur somewhat

    White Christian countries must learn to reassert their identity as such and flush the post-modern miasma of "deconstruction" of traditional roles, "human" rights, and other critical theory concepts down the drain, as the poison that they are.

    However, that being said, they had better retain those aspects of their past that made them great - respect for the power of reason, good governance, equal protection under the law of all men, etc....

    Finally these countries must reach a new understanding (though not completely new), that they belong to a race, they are parts of a whole that must not shed brother's blood in internecine wars like WW2 but protect each other against an ever growing other that hungers for what they have.

    We cannot turn the clock back
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  171. Salger says:
    @Anon-og
    All this talk about blacks with big dongs and browns being more masculine is funny.

    White women love non-white men because these men still have some sort of identity to hold on to, nobody buys "white"as an identity, that's more of catchall phrase for people who don't know what else to identify with lol. Not to mention, being hung up over who has a higher iq is similar to white male infatuation with penis size lol. Those of us who don't think so mechanically are the ones fucking your women and outsmarting you lol. Life is more grey than it is black and white.
    And on another note, American financing of Israel while the Jewish media disrespects Jesus Christ and Christian culture is really the biggest thing you cucks should be upset about lol. They have turned your religion into a racket for financing Israel and you gotta hand it to these Jews for being way more masculine than the rest of us. They make no secret of their disdain for your religion and do it all in plain sight like their Talmud dictates. They air it in all the tv and movies you watch while they have turned you and your children into perverted cuckolds through the pornography that they are at the forefront of. Reclaiming your country and identity starts with the internal journey of reclaiming your souls first. But that's too challenging for most so what we really see here are a bunch of keyboard philosophers who only think about these issues between their fap sessions.

    > White women love non-white men because these men still have some sort of identity to hold on to, nobody buys “white”as an identity, that’s more of catchall phrase for people who don’t know what else to identify with lol. Not to mention, being hung up over who has a higher iq is similar to white male infatuation with penis size lol. Those of us who don’t think so mechanically are the ones fucking your women and outsmarting you lol.

    You sound like a mud.

    By the way, acceptable studies show that White women who aren’t below standard in physical attractiveness, below average in intelligence, and aren’t deranged aren’t especially attracted to Blacks and other muds. Even East Asian men outperform Blacks. See these for more:

    http://time.com/3302251/9-ugly-truths-big-data-ok-cupid-book/

    http://www.thegrio.com/specials/life-and-style/study-reveals-racial-segregation-in-online-dating.php

    http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/emir.kamenica/documents/racialPreferences.pdf

    http://paa2008.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=80046

    http://qz.com/149342/the-uncomfortable-racial-preferences-revealed-by-online-dating/

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/

    http://www.as.miami.edu/personal/cklofstad/15_mate_choice_PB.pdf

    https://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/

    http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2013/07/white-skin-privilege.html

    Bonus:

    http://8ch.net/polarchive/res/749.html#q1387

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  172. Salger says:
    @Anon-og
    And come on, Radical Center, don't be so hard on Talha. You were probably named after someone who not too long ago actually owned human beings and treated them like cattle, multiple wives over a thousand years ago is a much lesser crime than breaking up families by selling and owning human beings just a little more than two centuries ago lol

    https://www.therightstuff.biz/2015/08/23/slavery-of-blacks-was-pretty-tame/

    Tell us more how Blacks were better off in Africa and how only Whitey has ever had slaves.

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  173. Boris N says:

    The Sun people like Africans and MENA won’t come up here to Russia, hopefully. It’s damned cold here. Russia is the most cold country in the world. Few in their right mind will come to live here.

    Still Russia and Russians face two, among others, vital issues:

    1) The uneducated low IQ people are coming from Central Asia. Their mentality is hardly distinct from the MENA, but their development level is lower. They are still few (the official numbers are four millions, but unofficially there might be up to ten millions), but Central Asian population is growing and nobody could predict where that excess of population would go.
    2) The problem of the utmost importance: who owns Russian economical assets. Right now the majority of it is owned by various ethnic clans and mafias from Jews, Armenians and Chechens to Uzbeks and Yezidis, who are further controlled by their masters in the West.

    In such a climate it is difficult to decide what problem is more threatening: that the upper, ruling and possessing, class is dominated by non-Russians or that the lower stratum of the society is being filled with the incoming hordes of non-Russians from an entirely alien culture. Even more difficult to solve either of the problems as Russians are left with no levers of power to change the situation.

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  174. @dc.sunsets
    True, but I worry about the credit-bubble warping of the capital structure of production.

    Waste is a common problem, but when two generations of people have committed their lives to its creation, what happens when they lose exchange value for the "shiny beads" they make (and they have no other skills?)

    You are right to be worried: there is a MASSIVE disconnect between the “money supply” & the value of the goods & services of the productive economy. After QE & zirp especially we are in unchartered waters….& I’ll be damned if I can see a happy ending….

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  175. @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Corvinus,

    Who knows what exactly you are, but for the sake of argument, let's assume that your a reasonably bright, reasonably educated black or brown guy that has lived around whites most/all of his life. You probably had/have a lot white neighbors and friends. And, you know what, they almost certainly liked/liked you for who you are as a person. (Or maybe your a white guy who's had a some black friends.)

    Therefore, you see all this ranting around here about race and think that it's silly. People judge each other on their personal merit, not their skin color. In your world, the vast majority of whites just don't care about skin color and find people that do abhorrent.

    So, in many ways, your beliefs are based on a reality, albeit a very limited reality.

    But here's what your worldview is missing.

    1. Genetic differences between races are real and they matter

    The nice black neighbor down the street is an outlier, and even liberal whites know this. They like you, not black people in general. They understand that you might be alright, but your kin are not.

    Don't take their acceptance of you as acceptance of your people. Liberal whites are well aware of racial differences; it's why they live in white overwhelmingly white neighborhoods.

    2. Blacks and browns are incapable of running a Western society/economy

    The happy multi-culti world that you surrounds you is the result of whites (and Asians) being a majority. Loss that majority, and things start getting bad, which leads to point three.

    3. When pushed, people quickly choose their own.

    A friend of mine took a train through the old Yugoslavia before it broke up. On the train, he was talking with some soldiers. They were good friends. One was a Serb. One was a Bosnian. Another guy was a Croatian. (Apparently, the gov't did that alot, mixing the different groups to break down the old divisions.) My friend asked about them what they thought was going to happen to the country. They all said that it would break up and there would be civil war. My friend asked what they'd do. Would they kill people they know just because they weren't Serb or Bosnian.

    Basically, there reply was they didn't want to expel or kills their neighbors and friends but it had to be done to be safe.

    Now, I don't think that the U.S. would ever become anything like the break-up of Yugoslavia, but you'd be prudent to remember what those soldiers said - and, almost certainly, did. Your white neighbors and friends do like you. Just like those soldiers liked each other. But if ever forced to choose, your white neighbors and friends do what has to be done to be safe.

    Here’s a thought bubble you won’t like: Shit breaks down quickly & totally….race, colour, whatever, I wonder how much it will matter…?

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  176. Salger says:
    @Anon-og
    Right, and wasn't it just yesterday that Europeans murdered more people in two World Wars than had been killed before all together. Don't worry, no one is stupid enough to judge all Europeans for that or for the genocide of the whole Western Hemisphere or for actually using nuclear bombs on people and of course we all know those crimes are far worse than anything a few extremists commit when they kill. And by the way, you shit on 3 sovereign Muslim countries in 5 years and expect there not to be a few crazy incidents? America should look like Post war Vietnam or Iraq considering all the terrorism it has exported

    >Right, and wasn’t it just yesterday that Europeans murdered more people in two World Wars than had been killed before all together.

    The Mongol conquests were well within the ballpark of the world wars accounting for population.

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2015/11/blaming-capitalism-for-virtually.html

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2013/02/was-20th-century-really-most-violent.html

    And primitive warfare is also more deadly than civilization’s warfare:

    https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/no-hunter-gatherers-were-not-peaceful-paragons-of-gender-equality/

    >Don’t worry, no one is stupid enough to judge all Europeans for that or for the genocide of the whole Western Hemisphere

    The Siberian Americans butchered each-other and Whites. And their depopulation was largely from plague instead of organized slaughter :

    https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/47655-youtube-the-truth-about-the-native-american-genocide/

    https://www.therightstuff.biz/2015/11/27/new-europe-radio-episode-2-thanksgiving-slapdash/

    https://motherboard.vice.com/read/uncontacted-tribes-die-instantly-after-we-meet-them

    https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/repost-the-smallpox-infected-blankets/

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/9113-comanche-indians-and-the-myth-of-the-noble-savage/

    >or for actually using nuclear bombs on people

    The atomic bombs pushed the Japanese government to surrender and submit to Allied authority before the island either got a full Allied invasion or got starved into submission. The Japanese war effort inflicted war crimes in the Orient well in excess of Japanese casualties from the bombings . The harping on the atomic bombings is thanks to Anti-White/Anti-West/Lefty revisionists and Japanese schemers using the bombings to divert focus away from Japanese antics. For more on the subject:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Haf2g1mbsH8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:”robert+p.+newman”&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOk4zljYrRAhWrhFQKHUJiCWwQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=myth&f=false

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=61F843C8C41FF2407D039A627C683786

    >and of course we all know those crimes are far worse than anything a few extremists commit when they kill.

    https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/islamic-india-the-biggest-holocaust-in-world-history-whitewashed-from-history/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Salger,

    I'm all for clearing the air on historical atrocities - and there is no doubt that the Mongol invasions were one of the bloodiest.

    But this "Muslim invasion of India is the biggest holocaust in history" is insipid. Everyone wants their share of the Holocaust (tm). The only ones touting this idiocy are Hindutva and anti-Islamic websites. So let's go over facts, shall we...

    There is little doubt that there was a tremendous amount of innocent bloodshed spilled and a lot of pillaging done by various Muslim emperors into India. We know this because their own court historians recorded it. Both the Ghaznavids and Timurids being of Turkic origin were indeed Muslim but were known for brutality in their conquests (even against Muslim opponents):
    "Wherever Timur appeared, writes the Arab historian Zaid Vosifi, "Blood poured from people as from vessels," and the sky was the color of a field of tulips."...Those whom he conquered he ordered beheaded. He ordered towers built from their skulls, and walls and roads."
    Imperium

    And it was hardly Islamic in ethos:
    "The religious impetus of Mahmud’s Indian forays was minimal; he fought equally tenaciously against rival Muslim rulers and established permanent dominion in India only up to Lahore."
    Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia

    Furthermore, it wasn't simply just a wanton Muslim slaughter of Hindus - quite a few ambitious Hindus piled on:
    "The position of Hindu generals, soldiers, and scholars at the Ghaznavid court is also significant. Even Mahmud, the iconoclast, had a contingent of Hindu officers and soldiers. He richly rewarded at least one Sanskrit poet, and had Hindu pandits at his court. He also issued coins with Sanskrit inscriptions. The Hindu position seems to have improved greatly in the days of his successor, Masud. Only fifty days after the death of Mahmud, his son despatched Sewand Rai, a Hindu chief, with a large body of Hindu cavalry in pursuit of the nobles who had espoused the cause of his brother. Sewand Rai died in the ensuing battle, but his selection for this important assignment indicates his position of trust and eminence…contemporary evidence suggests that the Hindu position under the Ghaznavids was very much better than it was to be in the early days of the Delhi Sultanate.”
    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part1_02.html

    However, claiming the military conquests of India by Muslims as the worst Holocaust (tm) is simply not based on fact. The one source all of these sites use for their claim of 80 million is this book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Negationism-India-Concealing-Record-Islam/dp/8185990956

    Seriously??? Published by "Voice of India" - what the hell???

    The book itself cites an actual academic source - Professor K.S. Lal:
    “According to his [Lal's] calculations, the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate). More research is needed before we can settle for a quantitatively accurate evaluation of Muslim rule in India, but at least we know for sure that the term crime against humanity is not exaggerated.”

    Problem with citing Prof. Lal is that in no way does he himself claim the population decline was due to a murderous rampage; back then famines and plagues were quite common (just like the links you cite against a total murderous carnage against Native Americans by Europeans - so it goes both ways). And Lal’s work was criticized by historians like the late Simon Digby (the foremost British scholar of pre-Mughal India):
    “Regarding the population of India before A.D. 1000 Lal quotes the guesses of Colin Clark - 70 millions - and Jyotindra Mohan Datta - 200 ot 300 millions. He himself prefers 200 millions and he believes that, mainly as a result of the Muslim invasions and presence, the population of India fell from 200 millions in A.D. 1000 to 125 millions in A.D. 1500, to rise under more amiable Mughal rule to 175 millions in 1700...Yet the unknown variables are so great and the quality of the data yielded by our sources so poor that almost any detailed general estimates of population based upon them must appear wilful, if not fantastic.”
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/614232?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    So basically, Prof. Lal chose to side on the higher side, whereas if one takes the estimate of Colin Clark, then the population actually grew from years 1000 - 1500 by almost 55 million. Not to mention that all other estimates by historians and economists have solidly estimated the population to have grown in that time frame. Take a look at the chart called "Alternative Estimates of India's Population, 0-1820 A.D." - all of them show increases:
    Development Centre Studies The World Economy Volume 1

    The Holocaust (tm) never happened in India except in the minds of Hate-Muzzie (they are a bit like Hate-Whitey) fools - though it is obvious that horrendous slaughter and looting did as Imam Biruni (ra) himself recorded and lamented.

    Whenever someone throws around pre-modern figures like 80 million - people's BS meters should be on high alert.

    Peace.

    , @L.K
    You are an obvious bullshitter, but this one here takes the cake:
    "The atomic bombs pushed the Japanese government to surrender and submit to Allied authority before the island either got a full Allied invasion or got starved into submission."

    This crap has been long debunked.

    Oh, and going beyond the mickey mouse propaganda re WWII in the far East:

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-case-for-pearl-harbor-revisionism/

    On another note, only a fool would push figures for alleged casualties that took place during the Mongol invasions or other ancient wars. Such figures are almost invariably complete BS, pure fiction.
    Anybody who knows anything about war casualties understand that even today, in the modern era, a lot of figures people take for granted are totally off, just plain wrong.
    Often, as a result of propaganda, but also bc of unreliable and imcomplete records, etc.

    Not that a propagandist like u would care.
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  177. Salger says:
    @Anon-og
    The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left "white people" susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not. Clutching to the empty identity of being "white" is no replacement for what has been lost, and it's ironic that America's racist heritage has contributed to its own loss of identity, taking pride in a skin color was perpetuated by the harsh treatment of those who did not share it.

    > The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left “white people” susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not

    Like how so many Muslims and Blacks engage in boy fucking or trying to violate foreign girls?

    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia#Muslim_Statistics_on_Pedophilia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#cite_note-stolt-153

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey Salger,

    Degenerate Muslims will also suffer the consequences of their actions - and if it is allowed to become endemic, so will their societies. If you drink poison, religion nor race protect you from the effects - there is no 'magic dirt'.

    Peace.
    , @1rw
    Yes dear Talha, do explain manlove Thursdays and Bazi boys to us. Let me guess, these are not committed by true Muslims
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  178. Talha says:
    @Salger
    > The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left “white people” susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not

    Like how so many Muslims and Blacks engage in boy fucking or trying to violate foreign girls?

    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia#Muslim_Statistics_on_Pedophilia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#cite_note-stolt-153

    Hey Salger,

    Degenerate Muslims will also suffer the consequences of their actions – and if it is allowed to become endemic, so will their societies. If you drink poison, religion nor race protect you from the effects – there is no ‘magic dirt’.

    Peace.

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  179. Talha says:
    @Salger
    >Right, and wasn’t it just yesterday that Europeans murdered more people in two World Wars than had been killed before all together.

    The Mongol conquests were well within the ballpark of the world wars accounting for population.

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2015/11/blaming-capitalism-for-virtually.html

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2013/02/was-20th-century-really-most-violent.html

    And primitive warfare is also more deadly than civilization's warfare:

    https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/no-hunter-gatherers-were-not-peaceful-paragons-of-gender-equality/

    >Don’t worry, no one is stupid enough to judge all Europeans for that or for the genocide of the whole Western Hemisphere

    The Siberian Americans butchered each-other and Whites. And their depopulation was largely from plague instead of organized slaughter :

    https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/47655-youtube-the-truth-about-the-native-american-genocide/

    https://www.therightstuff.biz/2015/11/27/new-europe-radio-episode-2-thanksgiving-slapdash/

    https://motherboard.vice.com/read/uncontacted-tribes-die-instantly-after-we-meet-them

    https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/repost-the-smallpox-infected-blankets/

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/9113-comanche-indians-and-the-myth-of-the-noble-savage/

    >or for actually using nuclear bombs on people

    The atomic bombs pushed the Japanese government to surrender and submit to Allied authority before the island either got a full Allied invasion or got starved into submission. The Japanese war effort inflicted war crimes in the Orient well in excess of Japanese casualties from the bombings . The harping on the atomic bombings is thanks to Anti-White/Anti-West/Lefty revisionists and Japanese schemers using the bombings to divert focus away from Japanese antics. For more on the subject:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Haf2g1mbsH8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"robert+p.+newman"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOk4zljYrRAhWrhFQKHUJiCWwQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=myth&f=false

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=61F843C8C41FF2407D039A627C683786

    >and of course we all know those crimes are far worse than anything a few extremists commit when they kill.

    https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/islamic-india-the-biggest-holocaust-in-world-history-whitewashed-from-history/

    Hey Salger,

    I’m all for clearing the air on historical atrocities – and there is no doubt that the Mongol invasions were one of the bloodiest.

    But this “Muslim invasion of India is the biggest holocaust in history” is insipid. Everyone wants their share of the Holocaust ™. The only ones touting this idiocy are Hindutva and anti-Islamic websites. So let’s go over facts, shall we…

    There is little doubt that there was a tremendous amount of innocent bloodshed spilled and a lot of pillaging done by various Muslim emperors into India. We know this because their own court historians recorded it. Both the Ghaznavids and Timurids being of Turkic origin were indeed Muslim but were known for brutality in their conquests (even against Muslim opponents):
    “Wherever Timur appeared, writes the Arab historian Zaid Vosifi, “Blood poured from people as from vessels,” and the sky was the color of a field of tulips.”…Those whom he conquered he ordered beheaded. He ordered towers built from their skulls, and walls and roads.”
    Imperium

    And it was hardly Islamic in ethos:
    “The religious impetus of Mahmud’s Indian forays was minimal; he fought equally tenaciously against rival Muslim rulers and established permanent dominion in India only up to Lahore.”
    Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia

    Furthermore, it wasn’t simply just a wanton Muslim slaughter of Hindus – quite a few ambitious Hindus piled on:
    “The position of Hindu generals, soldiers, and scholars at the Ghaznavid court is also significant. Even Mahmud, the iconoclast, had a contingent of Hindu officers and soldiers. He richly rewarded at least one Sanskrit poet, and had Hindu pandits at his court. He also issued coins with Sanskrit inscriptions. The Hindu position seems to have improved greatly in the days of his successor, Masud. Only fifty days after the death of Mahmud, his son despatched Sewand Rai, a Hindu chief, with a large body of Hindu cavalry in pursuit of the nobles who had espoused the cause of his brother. Sewand Rai died in the ensuing battle, but his selection for this important assignment indicates his position of trust and eminence…contemporary evidence suggests that the Hindu position under the Ghaznavids was very much better than it was to be in the early days of the Delhi Sultanate.”

    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/ikram/part1_02.html

    However, claiming the military conquests of India by Muslims as the worst Holocaust ™ is simply not based on fact. The one source all of these sites use for their claim of 80 million is this book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Negationism-India-Concealing-Record-Islam/dp/8185990956

    Seriously??? Published by “Voice of India” – what the hell???

    The book itself cites an actual academic source – Professor K.S. Lal:
    “According to his [Lal's] calculations, the Indian (subcontinent) population decreased by 80 million between 1000 (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 (end of Delhi Sultanate). More research is needed before we can settle for a quantitatively accurate evaluation of Muslim rule in India, but at least we know for sure that the term crime against humanity is not exaggerated.”

    Problem with citing Prof. Lal is that in no way does he himself claim the population decline was due to a murderous rampage; back then famines and plagues were quite common (just like the links you cite against a total murderous carnage against Native Americans by Europeans – so it goes both ways). And Lal’s work was criticized by historians like the late Simon Digby (the foremost British scholar of pre-Mughal India):
    “Regarding the population of India before A.D. 1000 Lal quotes the guesses of Colin Clark – 70 millions – and Jyotindra Mohan Datta – 200 ot 300 millions. He himself prefers 200 millions and he believes that, mainly as a result of the Muslim invasions and presence, the population of India fell from 200 millions in A.D. 1000 to 125 millions in A.D. 1500, to rise under more amiable Mughal rule to 175 millions in 1700…Yet the unknown variables are so great and the quality of the data yielded by our sources so poor that almost any detailed general estimates of population based upon them must appear wilful, if not fantastic.”

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/614232?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    So basically, Prof. Lal chose to side on the higher side, whereas if one takes the estimate of Colin Clark, then the population actually grew from years 1000 – 1500 by almost 55 million. Not to mention that all other estimates by historians and economists have solidly estimated the population to have grown in that time frame. Take a look at the chart called “Alternative Estimates of India’s Population, 0-1820 A.D.” – all of them show increases:
    Development Centre Studies The World Economy Volume 1

    The Holocaust ™ never happened in India except in the minds of Hate-Muzzie (they are a bit like Hate-Whitey) fools – though it is obvious that horrendous slaughter and looting did as Imam Biruni (ra) himself recorded and lamented.

    Whenever someone throws around pre-modern figures like 80 million – people’s BS meters should be on high alert.

    Peace.

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  180. L.K says:
    @Salger
    >Right, and wasn’t it just yesterday that Europeans murdered more people in two World Wars than had been killed before all together.

    The Mongol conquests were well within the ballpark of the world wars accounting for population.

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2015/11/blaming-capitalism-for-virtually.html

    http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2013/02/was-20th-century-really-most-violent.html

    And primitive warfare is also more deadly than civilization's warfare:

    https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2015/06/08/no-hunter-gatherers-were-not-peaceful-paragons-of-gender-equality/

    >Don’t worry, no one is stupid enough to judge all Europeans for that or for the genocide of the whole Western Hemisphere

    The Siberian Americans butchered each-other and Whites. And their depopulation was largely from plague instead of organized slaughter :

    https://board.freedomainradio.com/topic/47655-youtube-the-truth-about-the-native-american-genocide/

    https://www.therightstuff.biz/2015/11/27/new-europe-radio-episode-2-thanksgiving-slapdash/

    https://motherboard.vice.com/read/uncontacted-tribes-die-instantly-after-we-meet-them

    https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/repost-the-smallpox-infected-blankets/

    http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/9113-comanche-indians-and-the-myth-of-the-noble-savage/

    >or for actually using nuclear bombs on people

    The atomic bombs pushed the Japanese government to surrender and submit to Allied authority before the island either got a full Allied invasion or got starved into submission. The Japanese war effort inflicted war crimes in the Orient well in excess of Japanese casualties from the bombings . The harping on the atomic bombings is thanks to Anti-White/Anti-West/Lefty revisionists and Japanese schemers using the bombings to divert focus away from Japanese antics. For more on the subject:

    https://books.google.com/books?id=Haf2g1mbsH8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"robert+p.+newman"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOk4zljYrRAhWrhFQKHUJiCWwQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=myth&f=false

    http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=61F843C8C41FF2407D039A627C683786

    >and of course we all know those crimes are far worse than anything a few extremists commit when they kill.

    https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/islamic-india-the-biggest-holocaust-in-world-history-whitewashed-from-history/

    You are an obvious bullshitter, but this one here takes the cake:
    “The atomic bombs pushed the Japanese government to surrender and submit to Allied authority before the island either got a full Allied invasion or got starved into submission.”

    This crap has been long debunked.

    Oh, and going beyond the mickey mouse propaganda re WWII in the far East:

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-case-for-pearl-harbor-revisionism/

    On another note, only a fool would push figures for alleged casualties that took place during the Mongol invasions or other ancient wars. Such figures are almost invariably complete BS, pure fiction.
    Anybody who knows anything about war casualties understand that even today, in the modern era, a lot of figures people take for granted are totally off, just plain wrong.
    Often, as a result of propaganda, but also bc of unreliable and imcomplete records, etc.

    Not that a propagandist like u would care.

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  181. L.K says:
    @1rw
    Muslims are guilty of sending in armies into (and I don't think this is a complete list)
    -Persia
    -Jerusalem
    -Constantinople
    -The Balkans
    -Iberian Pinensula
    -France
    -Austria
    -India
    -Georgia
    -Armenia

    Their current weakness in conventional military capability leaves them with few options other than terror attacks. However, this was not always so. And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again

    I ain’t Muslim and do not support large numbers of muslims in Europe.

    That being said, you r clearly pretty biased and disingenuous when it comes to Muslim invasions and such.

    “Their current weakness in conventional military capability leaves them with few options other than terror attacks. However, this was not always so. And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again”

    Hmm… the same could be said, in all truth, of Euros or people of Euro descent, throughout the times.
    In pre-Christian times, once some became strong enough, Macedonians and later the Romans, they did plenty of invading left and right.

    After the fall of Rome, for a while, the Christian European kingdoms were far too weak… so they stopped marching abroad. Once they became militarily powerful again, various European forces were once again on the march… they still are, nowadays in the shape of the Zio-anglo-american Empire.
    The US has been at war for over 90% of its existence, a really depraved record, almost all of them, wars of choice.

    As for Muslim ‘terror’, the whole thing is a freaking hoax.

    The US and the UK, fRANCE too, have long been involved with radical Islam and islamic terrorism.
    They use them strategically.
    ISIS, btw, only exists bc of the US and its allies.

    “And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again”

    Right… I don’t think so, but, IF that ever happens, then we’ll give it some thought, eh sport?
    Until then, let’s focus on the real terrorists and warmongers….

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    • Replies: @1RW
    I am not disingenuous. Muslims are far more prone to terror tactics and general nastiness than other groups. The antics of ISIS make SS einsatzgruppen look like amateur hour.
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  182. L.K says:

    The problem with this limey, J.Derbyshire, is just how dishonest he oftentimes is.

    For example, he makes no mention of the war of agression launched by NATO, mainly ZUSA, ZUK & France, against Libya.

    Libya b4 the war was a stable , relatively prosperous country, which acted as a BARRIER to the large numbers of Sub-Saharan Africans who wanted to use it to cross into Europe.

    Libyan security turned a LOT of them back.
    Furthermore, hundreds of thousands of blacks were living and working in Libya, legally or illegally.

    After Natos criminal war on Libya, the country has become a failed state and a safe haven for islamic radicals as well as for people traffickers… most of the blacks are coming through shattered Libya.

    This is 100% the fault of England, Zusa, France and other cowardly NATO puppets which tagged along…

    Italy for one, got totally screwed. Why then did Italy not tell NATO to go to hell?
    Bc Italy is a country without real sovereignty…. etc, etc.

    J.Derbyshire never touches any of this stuff… never talks about his native UK and his adopted Zusas long collusion with radical Islam, including covertly arming, training, al-ciada gangs all over the place, see Syria for a perfect example of this perfidy.

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Reading your comment made me consider that the prolific use of the word ZUSA for the entity previously known as the USA has potentially long legs. It's catchy.

    I think it's very possible that the more it is used in conversation and print and also corrected when not used gives it the potential both to infuriate those who are unconcerned with politics and cause those who are to reconsider what is at the hub of it all.

    It would probably inspire quite a bit of symbolic artwork too, both new and modified established works. Art speaks to all sorts of different people in all sorts of different ways.

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  183. Sean says:
    @annamaria
    "... we will give the rebels everything they need Assad doesn’t stop advancing with his Russian weapons... As Syria was never a real country anyway ... it will have to be partitioned."
    1. "we will give.." - meaning of course that the US citizens should pay for the lunatic project of Eretz Israel by arming and financing "moderate" jihadis and other affiliates of Al Qaeda. Thanks but no thanks.
    2. "Syria was never a real country anyway" - this is rich from the mouth of an Israeli living in an artificial state that has broken all international rules, as well as all moral rules as they were articulated during the Nuremberg Process
    3. "it [Syria] will have to be partitioned." - An easily recognizable voice of a true zionist, inventing various unprincipled excuses for paving a road to hell with the supposedly pious intentions of tribal solidarity.
    4. "because letting them [Russians] continue would make America look weak, not great." - the zionists' projects in the Middle East and Ukraine have already inflicted incalculable harm to the US and these projects made America not just "look weak, not great" but stupid. The harm extends from the "lost" $6 trillions during the last 15 years of wars for Eretz Israel and up to the corrupted academic and political worlds that both suffer from the Lobby' blackmailing.

    Stop playing with the fire. The Jewish Bolsheviks had already tried their obnoxious projects in Russia some hundred years ago, and this trial has ended in a terrible tragedy that included the elimination of the best in brightest in Russia, including the best and brightest Jews there. Nowadays the arrogant projects against Russia are heading towards a nuclear conflict.

    The Russian intervention started with them speaking softly and carrying a small stick and saying they had limited objectives.. Nothing was done because ISIS was the apparent problem and Russia soon actually announced they were finished and definitely going to leave (remember that?). The Russia-Iranian ) forces are now large and advancing as they please. Putin understands that the West is about to tell him to stop and that is why he spoke threateningly a couple of days ago about Russia’s nuclear capabilities.

    Trump instantly made his own statement about a American nuclear build up. These veiled menaces (Putin said ‘We are stronger now than anyone’) are bluff, all talk, no one would use nukes unless the enemy did first. Conventional defeats would have to be accepted. Russia started the nuclear blustering because it is not stronger that the US in any respect. Syrian rebels plus US weapons would halt the Russian advance.

    It is not a quirk of Trump’s that he responded in kind, any leader of the US is constrained to act thus; it’s a zero sum game.

    Given the difficulty of determining how much power is enough for today and tomorrow, great powers recognize that the best way to ensure their security is to achieve hegemony now, thus eliminating any possibility of a challenge by another great power. Only a misguided state would pass up an opportunity to be the hegemon in the system because it thought it already had sufficient power to survive.

    How can US Jews do anything but applaud if Trump saves Israel from becoming a non Jewish or pariah Apartheid state, which is a fate that Ehud Barak, Martin Van Creveld and others of similar stature have foreseen to be inevitable.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "Russian intervention...."
    Do you really believe that you will be able to convince the UnzReview readers in your interpretation of the last 15 years of wars in the Middle East? Neocons and AIPAC would certainly agree with you, but they are not the honest brokers.

    "Syrian rebels plus US weapons would halt the Russian advance."
    That's the clarity in your grouping together the US weaponry and Al Qaeda "rebels."
    The overwhelming majority of the rebels are affiliates of Al Qaeda (ISIS, IS, Daesh). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/us-support-for-al-qaeda-l_b_10089410.html
    The collaboration of the US military with Al Qaeda is highly desired by Israel-firsters, for obvious reasons. This does not add any luster to the Israel-firsters' reputation. The war profiteers and Jewish supremacists are eager to sow Dragon's teeth, but they should expect the inevitable sorry consequences. Exhibit one is the rise of antisemitism in Ukraine that was "liberated" by Mrs. Nuland on the directives of neocons (many of whom happened to be ziocons); the "liberation" has been accomplished in cooperation with Ukrainian neo-Nazis. What is the purpose of Holocaust Museums if Israel emulates Nazi Germany policies towards Palestinian "undermensch" and the US zionists cooperate willingly with neo-Nazis
    The US citizenry has already lost trillions of dollars (and the limbs and lives) during the "war on terror" (see 9/11). For Israel-firsters, the subverting the pliable US brass to cooperate with Al Qaeda is only natural (see Yinon Plan), whereas for the US citizenry at large this is an insult. http://news.antiwar.com/2016/09/19/cia-armed-moderates-in-syria-included-al-qaedas-nusra-front/
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  184. In a soldier’s stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach
    Fearing not that I’d become my enemy in the instant that I preach
    My existence led by confusion boats, mutiny from stern to bow
    Ah, but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now

    My Back Pages lyrics © Bob Dylan Music Co.

    Busy, busy, busy…

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  185. @Sam Shama
    Hey Talha and dc.sunsets

    The controversy surrounding debt is an old one, mired in cant and therefore entangled in a misunderstanding of inter-temporal fluctuations of output.

    To be clear, this is not an advocacy for uncontrolled debt levels, but instead an attempt to arrive at a balanced understanding of the role of debt.

    One could, for instance, accept a level of debt [or credit] tied to a productive item, say the varying stock of microprocessors, total known crude deposits or any other tangible and easily measurable asset. If one accepts that such a scheme is desirable, is it not a small logical step to conclude, what is commonly called fiat, is little else than a level of credit/total money in circulation tied to the total stock of sovereign assets of the issuing nation?

    [It isn't expressly useful a measure when debt levels are ratioed to income or gdp, which is a flow variable. Still, people do it, mostly as a heuristic aid. ]

    Gold is not an asset in the sense a microprocessor is. Furthermore, it fatally fails in that it exacerbates both recessionary and inflationary episodes when the need calls for a counter-cyclical measure.

    So setting aside the gold standard and conceding for a moment that fiat debt is optimal in our best understanding, whether it is issued directly by the treasury or a central bank is a question which tackles the thorny problem of election-cycle politics influencing the actions of the treasury. Each party would be accusing the one in power of gearing the economy during election years! That much is guaranteed. In theory, an independent CB solves this issue and I daresay this is my contention as well.

    Now, whether debt needs to exist at all; whether we should have a totally debt free economy operating solely on savings is easily addressed: If current savings were the only source of financing [spurring on] enterprise, we'd end up with little doubt, in the days of the past when the sovereign monarch and nobility had all the savings, lent only under burdensome, strict terms to indentured labour [one might ask 'is it any different today'? to which I'd reply 'assuredly so']

    Extension of debt in the modern nation, therefore, is a means to facilitate enterprise of the talented citizenry and therefore smooth inter-temporal output. The question in my mind reduces therefore, to what is the optimal level of debt, not whether we should have it at all. Without it, we are merely yearning for the relatively impoverished, uninspired, but perhaps bucolic past :-)

    The question in my mind reduces therefore, to what is the optimal level of debt, not whether we should have it at all.

    I would suggest to you again that the problem is the rate of increase relative to the rate of increase of output, not the level. Granted this will vary over time, but if the rate of increase of debt exceeds the rate of “real growth” (whatever that is) for an extended period, then one is headed for serious trouble (in my opinion and also that of others more illustrious than me).

    Most succinctly by Von Mises:

    There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.

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    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    [I would suggest to you again that the problem is the rate of increase relative to the rate of increase of output, not the level.]

    No, not especially; that is a common mistake made by Austrian 'economics', one with aspirations to 'dynamic theory', that rates of change because they sound so dynamic must thus be the bee's knees. I don't mean to sound acerbic, only that I find it odd why intelligent people don't get it.

    If the argument is that very very high levels of debt [as a result of fast debt accumulation] eventually lead to crashes, one could claim with equal validity that very low levels of debt bespeak an anaemic economy.

    If you are going to compare the rate of change of output i.e, growth, it is logical to compare it with the rate of interest. It is even better to compare growth rates to inflation and interest. For all that should matter is the interest bill be easily accommodated by the rate of growth of income. Debt rose very fast during and after WWII and the economy saw one of the longest sustained expansions in modern times until the crude oil shock of the late seventies dealt a blow.

    Debt worry, debt scolding etc., are little else than vestiges of religious cant and the incorrectly inferred common equivalence drawn to individual household book-balancing by von Mises and the Austrians. Household accounting rules if dogmatically applied to the economy will almost certainly lead to a fallacy of composition.

    I labour and hope to impress upon my interlocutors on this matter that the total level of credit/debt in the modern context ought to be viewed as a whole. Thus the high rate of public debt accumulation was a deliberate policy action undertaken by the Fed to counter a precipitous decline in private and corporate debt levels. Had it failed to do so - Congressional fiscal action having had been conspicuous by its absence - the economy would have been in a depression instead of a bad recession.

    An Optimal Debt level is something which remains a bit of a holy grail. However, it is plainly evident that debt & monetary policy has greatly reduced the amplitude and frequency of economic fluctuations compared to previous eras.

    Final observation: Debt is only a financing method, and what really matters is the level and quality of Assets which it finances.

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  186. 1RW says:
    @L.K
    I ain't Muslim and do not support large numbers of muslims in Europe.

    That being said, you r clearly pretty biased and disingenuous when it comes to Muslim invasions and such.

    "Their current weakness in conventional military capability leaves them with few options other than terror attacks. However, this was not always so. And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again"

    Hmm... the same could be said, in all truth, of Euros or people of Euro descent, throughout the times.
    In pre-Christian times, once some became strong enough, Macedonians and later the Romans, they did plenty of invading left and right.

    After the fall of Rome, for a while, the Christian European kingdoms were far too weak... so they stopped marching abroad. Once they became militarily powerful again, various European forces were once again on the march... they still are, nowadays in the shape of the Zio-anglo-american Empire.
    The US has been at war for over 90% of its existence, a really depraved record, almost all of them, wars of choice.

    As for Muslim 'terror', the whole thing is a freaking hoax.

    The US and the UK, fRANCE too, have long been involved with radical Islam and islamic terrorism.
    They use them strategically.
    ISIS, btw, only exists bc of the US and its allies.

    "And doubtless, if the equation changes the armies will march again"

    Right... I don't think so, but, IF that ever happens, then we'll give it some thought, eh sport?
    Until then, let's focus on the real terrorists and warmongers....

    I am not disingenuous. Muslims are far more prone to terror tactics and general nastiness than other groups. The antics of ISIS make SS einsatzgruppen look like amateur hour.

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  187. 1rw says:
    @Talha

    Ottoman Turks treated non-Muslim subjects as second class citizens.
     
    Absolutely true. But when one is a peasant or cobbler moving out from under some other monarchy, that doesn't matter much. Being able to skip a border and suddenly not be tortured or killed for your particular 'heresy' is a privilege. And the Ottomans let refugees know they were coming in on the Ottoman's terms - they would brook no threat to their social order.

    This included kidnapping and enslaving children of their Christian subjects
     
    Yes - the devshirme (a gross violation of the dhimmi contract) which none of the rulers before or after the Ottomans ever did - and which the Ottomans themselves abolished when they came to their senses:
    "This effectively enslaved some of the sultan's own non-Islamic subjects and was therefore illegal under Islamic law, which stipulated that conquered non-Muslims should be demilitarized and protected."
    Conflict and Conquest in the Islamic World: A Historical Encyclopedia

    Ottomans and their vassals did a lot of un-Islamic things, like their takeover of Egypt from the Mamlukes that would have impressed Cosa Nostra:
    "By 1811 Muhammad Ali (aka OG Thugg Pasha - my title) was strong enough to deal with the Mamelukes. He organised a grand ceremonial procession in Cairo to which he invited some 500 Mameluke notables. Assembled in the citadel, they were warmly welcomed and treated to coffee, sweetmeats and polite conversation, but when the time came for the procession they had to go down a narrow, winding passageway between high walls in single file. Suddenly the gates at each end were slammed shut and the Wali’s soldiers appeared on top of the walls and opened a murderous fire with muskets. All or possibly all but one of the Mamelukes were killed. More Mamelukes were swiftly hunted down and killed in Cairo and elsewhere in Egypt, to a total of perhaps 3,000."
    http://www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/mamelukes-are-massacred-egypt

    Same goes for any Muslim government because Dhimmitude is enshrined in Islam.
     
    This is also true, it is a sacred trust which we keep having to remind our extremists. When the bombing happened in Egypt at the church, a scholar I know (of both the Hanafi and Maliki schools) sent out a message saying:
    "To break the ancient pact of security of the Companions (ra) is an act of disgraceful treachery w/o excuse."

    This is no joke - the Copts of Egypt were given their word by the first generation - later generations have zero right to renege on this pact.

    But modern day dhimmi arrangements are not too bad in most countries (at least on paper). There aren't many restrictions for a non-Muslim in Malaysia or Morocco other than the classics like; can't marry Muslim women, can't blaspheme, can't proselytize to Muslims, etc. But the sumptuary laws are basically gone - like where you have to dress different (wear funny caps) or can't ride a horse, or can't own weapons, etc. Muslim countries may have legal restrictions on the religion of those who can hold high office or military command - but that is to ensure the social order is not upturned (which incidentally is currently the fear from boat people).

    Is this a good or bad thing? Well, if you told Americans at the beginning of the 20th century that their Supreme Court would be completely run by Catholics and Jews in a hundred years, they may have thought you insane.

    Ignorant and extremist mob violence is unfortunately still a problem in the Muslim world.

    Muslim immigrants are not Dhimmies
     
    We are from the perspective of our sacred law - ;) .

    They are full citizens with all the rights and protections.
     
    No doubt, Muslims have more rights in the West than non-Muslims in the Muslim world. That goes without saying. However, these rights are also flexible; minaret ban in Switzerland and 'burkini' ban in parts of France being examples. Quite a few people on this forum would like me to be registered in a database - which is fine, I don't really have anything to hide and can be identified by my beard and kufi a mile away anyway - one more bureaucracy isn't going to bust the budget. I think.

    So the West needs to figure this out and stop letting the buggers in, regardless of foreign policy.
     
    Sounds quite reasonable given the conundrum.

    Peace.

    We finally agree

    Muslims cannot be muslim and be full citizens in western countries, because western laws are based on equal protection for all citizens. Therefore the only rational solution is for the west to prohibit Muslim settlement in their countries.

    Coexistence is impossible on terms favorable for Western/Christian countries.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Well, the Western world - just like the Muslim world - isn't monolithic. The existence of the minaret ban by the Swiss obviously shows not everything is equal; in fact, it closely resembles the practice in many Muslim societies (historic and current) to prevent non-Muslim houses of worship being built taller than any mosque in their locality.

    Let's put that to the side, because the US is different than Europe in that regard and I live in the US - as I presume you do.

    Therefore the only rational solution is for the west to prohibit Muslim settlement in their countries.
     
    OK this makes sense - so what happens to the ones already here? Given that they should be accorded 'equal protection for all citizens.'

    Coexistence is impossible on terms favorable for Western/Christian countries.
     
    When I read statements like this, I see a lack of confidence in Western institutions and in the culture itself. Especially given that Muslims are a minority of about 2% or so. When the West was more confident in themselves, they didn't seem to see the same threat - in fact, some were more cautious about another philosophy taking hold:
    "The reference here, as other commentators made clear, was to Islam's belief, which it shared with Christianity, in a "future state of rewards and punishments," a system of celestial carrots and sticks which the Founding generation considered necessary to guarantee good social conduct...Benjamin Rush, the Pennsylvania signer of the Declaration of Independence and friend of Adams and Jefferson, applauded this feature of Islam, asserting that he had 'rather see the opinions of Confucius or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly devoid of a system of religious principles.'"
    https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html

    Peace.
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  188. 1rw says:
    @Salger
    > The moral degeneration of the West via the loss of faith in Chrisitianity has left “white people” susceptible to pitfalls that other cultures still attached to a spiritual axiom are not

    Like how so many Muslims and Blacks engage in boy fucking or trying to violate foreign girls?

    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Pedophilia#Muslim_Statistics_on_Pedophilia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse#cite_note-stolt-153

    Yes dear Talha, do explain manlove Thursdays and Bazi boys to us. Let me guess, these are not committed by true Muslims

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    What explanation does it need - in every society there are those that are into homosexuality and pederasty - if you don't know that, you haven't read history. It shows up and gains wider or lesser acceptance in various societies through the vicissitudes of time. Now, if one is claiming that this is an acceptable practice in Islam - prove it. Find one jurist (of any of the four existing schools - or even one from an extinct school) that accepted the act as legal. There are Muslims all over the world that imbibe alcohol - some in my extended family - do you really think that means Islam allows consuming alcohol?

    The better question is, why did we put the 'boy players' in charge? (according to our own military):
    “The Taliban made the practice punishable by death, but bacha bazi has been resurrected since the fall of the Taliban.”
    https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/quarterlyreports/2015-10-30qr.pdf

    Peace.
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  189. Sam Shama says:
    @another fred

    The question in my mind reduces therefore, to what is the optimal level of debt, not whether we should have it at all.
     
    I would suggest to you again that the problem is the rate of increase relative to the rate of increase of output, not the level. Granted this will vary over time, but if the rate of increase of debt exceeds the rate of "real growth" (whatever that is) for an extended period, then one is headed for serious trouble (in my opinion and also that of others more illustrious than me).

    Most succinctly by Von Mises:

    There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.
     

    [I would suggest to you again that the problem is the rate of increase relative to the rate of increase of output, not the level.]

    No, not especially; that is a common mistake made by Austrian ‘economics’, one with aspirations to ‘dynamic theory’, that rates of change because they sound so dynamic must thus be the bee’s knees. I don’t mean to sound acerbic, only that I find it odd why intelligent people don’t get it.

    If the argument is that very very high levels of debt [as a result of fast debt accumulation] eventually lead to crashes, one could claim with equal validity that very low levels of debt bespeak an anaemic economy.

    If you are going to compare the rate of change of output i.e, growth, it is logical to compare it with the rate of interest. It is even better to compare growth rates to inflation and interest. For all that should matter is the interest bill be easily accommodated by the rate of growth of income. Debt rose very fast during and after WWII and the economy saw one of the longest sustained expansions in modern times until the crude oil shock of the late seventies dealt a blow.

    Debt worry, debt scolding etc., are little else than vestiges of religious cant and the incorrectly inferred common equivalence drawn to individual household book-balancing by von Mises and the Austrians. Household accounting rules if dogmatically applied to the economy will almost certainly lead to a fallacy of composition.

    I labour and hope to impress upon my interlocutors on this matter that the total level of credit/debt in the modern context ought to be viewed as a whole. Thus the high rate of public debt accumulation was a deliberate policy action undertaken by the Fed to counter a precipitous decline in private and corporate debt levels. Had it failed to do so – Congressional fiscal action having had been conspicuous by its absence – the economy would have been in a depression instead of a bad recession.

    An Optimal Debt level is something which remains a bit of a holy grail. However, it is plainly evident that debt & monetary policy has greatly reduced the amplitude and frequency of economic fluctuations compared to previous eras.

    Final observation: Debt is only a financing method, and what really matters is the level and quality of Assets which it finances.

    Read More
    • Replies: @another fred

    If the argument is that very very high levels of debt [as a result of fast debt accumulation] eventually lead to crashes, one could claim with equal validity that very low levels of debt bespeak an anaemic economy.
     
    I have no problem with that.

    For all that should matter is the interest bill be easily accommodated by the rate of growth of income.
     
    Certainly, now whence comes income other than ultimately from production.

    Ceterus paribus, human beings will adjust their willingness to take risk to a combination of the degree of risk (success v. failure) and the potential rewards. The "greater fool theory can only take you so far. As the system becomes glutted with debt they become more cautious and growth ceases, incomes no longer grow. The inverted balance sheets take large bites out of capital.

    Human beings are not economic ciphers, we are emotional animals, at brain level little different from gorillas and chimps except for the expanded neo cortex.

    If confidence ebbs, jobs making, transporting, and selling doo-dads and "luxury" items disappear. Take a walk down the aisles of a grocery store or Wal-Mart and ask yourself how much of the variety and "value added" is highly valued by the purchasers and how much can be quickly shed from their lives. It is a confidence game.

    In order to keep people from reacting emotionally the government has to make more and more guarantees. To make good on the guarantees the government must have more and more power. The system has already become so complex that the end of "democracy" is discussed quite openly.

    I do not doubt that Modern Monetary Theory will be the next step and debt will balloon with little or no apparent ill effects to the economy. The problems come when the people in charge start acting like human beings and believing themselves entitled to the choicest cuts of meat.

    Oh, wait, they already are.

    What could possibly go wrong?
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  190. @L.K
    The problem with this limey, J.Derbyshire, is just how dishonest he oftentimes is.

    For example, he makes no mention of the war of agression launched by NATO, mainly ZUSA, ZUK & France, against Libya.

    Libya b4 the war was a stable , relatively prosperous country, which acted as a BARRIER to the large numbers of Sub-Saharan Africans who wanted to use it to cross into Europe.

    Libyan security turned a LOT of them back.
    Furthermore, hundreds of thousands of blacks were living and working in Libya, legally or illegally.

    After Natos criminal war on Libya, the country has become a failed state and a safe haven for islamic radicals as well as for people traffickers... most of the blacks are coming through shattered Libya.

    This is 100% the fault of England, Zusa, France and other cowardly NATO puppets which tagged along...

    Italy for one, got totally screwed. Why then did Italy not tell NATO to go to hell?
    Bc Italy is a country without real sovereignty.... etc, etc.

    J.Derbyshire never touches any of this stuff... never talks about his native UK and his adopted Zusas long collusion with radical Islam, including covertly arming, training, al-ciada gangs all over the place, see Syria for a perfect example of this perfidy.

    Reading your comment made me consider that the prolific use of the word ZUSA for the entity previously known as the USA has potentially long legs. It’s catchy.

    I think it’s very possible that the more it is used in conversation and print and also corrected when not used gives it the potential both to infuriate those who are unconcerned with politics and cause those who are to reconsider what is at the hub of it all.

    It would probably inspire quite a bit of symbolic artwork too, both new and modified established works. Art speaks to all sorts of different people in all sorts of different ways.

    Read More
    • Replies: @RobinG
    THE DERB'STER IS A LYING BIG MEDIA PRESSTITUTE

    Ostensibly scratching at some concern about demographics, he supports his non-theory with run-of-the-mill Big Media propaganda, i.e. disinfo, about Syria. His bio says he writes on innumerable topics. Are we to assume he's as misinformed and superficial about all of them?

    At least L.K has made some helpful criticism. I hope others have as well, but considering the self-serving, self-satisfied delusional racists he usually draws as readers (I've ventured here once before, yuck) it's not a given.

    You think the Derb just doesn't know better? Giving him benefit of doubt? What for? This is standard brainwashing: prattling on aimlessly about some insoluble problem, while drilling down casually on the exceptional white nation meme. We're the Great Guys, and so what if we're murdering and inciting mayhem among the less fortunate: nothing to report!

    But I digress. I only stopped by to share a doc on CFI and Big Media.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcA76lcXtwU
    Council on Foreign Relations - The Power Behind Big News
    , @L.K
    "Reading your comment made me consider that the prolific use of the word ZUSA for the entity previously known as the USA has potentially long legs. It’s catchy."

    Hey Nosey,

    I cannot take credit for it though!
    I adopted it from this witty Russian who posted elsewhere and went by the handle of 'Mr.Pragma'.
    A very funny fellow!

    Regards
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  191. 1rw says:
    @dfordoom

    Muslims are fairly “pre-modern”
     
    We'd be better off if Christianity could return to its pre-modern roots.

    I concur somewhat

    White Christian countries must learn to reassert their identity as such and flush the post-modern miasma of “deconstruction” of traditional roles, “human” rights, and other critical theory concepts down the drain, as the poison that they are.

    However, that being said, they had better retain those aspects of their past that made them great – respect for the power of reason, good governance, equal protection under the law of all men, etc….

    Finally these countries must reach a new understanding (though not completely new), that they belong to a race, they are parts of a whole that must not shed brother’s blood in internecine wars like WW2 but protect each other against an ever growing other that hungers for what they have.

    We cannot turn the clock back

    Read More
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  192. Talha says:
    @1rw
    Yes dear Talha, do explain manlove Thursdays and Bazi boys to us. Let me guess, these are not committed by true Muslims

    Hey 1rw,

    What explanation does it need – in every society there are those that are into homosexuality and pederasty – if you don’t know that, you haven’t read history. It shows up and gains wider or lesser acceptance in various societies through the vicissitudes of time. Now, if one is claiming that this is an acceptable practice in Islam – prove it. Find one jurist (of any of the four existing schools – or even one from an extinct school) that accepted the act as legal. There are Muslims all over the world that imbibe alcohol – some in my extended family – do you really think that means Islam allows consuming alcohol?

    The better question is, why did we put the ‘boy players’ in charge? (according to our own military):
    “The Taliban made the practice punishable by death, but bacha bazi has been resurrected since the fall of the Taliban.”

    https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/quarterlyreports/2015-10-30qr.pdf

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @1RW
    Look, there's theory, then there's practice. And the practice seems prevalent. And I think Islam both tries to keep the degeneracy in check, and inadvertently causes it with its strict cloistering of women. I just want that practice to stay over there. And its practitioners. Because they are gross and stupid.
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  193. Talha says:
    @1rw
    We finally agree

    Muslims cannot be muslim and be full citizens in western countries, because western laws are based on equal protection for all citizens. Therefore the only rational solution is for the west to prohibit Muslim settlement in their countries.

    Coexistence is impossible on terms favorable for Western/Christian countries.

    Hey 1rw,

    Well, the Western world – just like the Muslim world – isn’t monolithic. The existence of the minaret ban by the Swiss obviously shows not everything is equal; in fact, it closely resembles the practice in many Muslim societies (historic and current) to prevent non-Muslim houses of worship being built taller than any mosque in their locality.

    Let’s put that to the side, because the US is different than Europe in that regard and I live in the US – as I presume you do.

    Therefore the only rational solution is for the west to prohibit Muslim settlement in their countries.

    OK this makes sense – so what happens to the ones already here? Given that they should be accorded ‘equal protection for all citizens.’

    Coexistence is impossible on terms favorable for Western/Christian countries.

    When I read statements like this, I see a lack of confidence in Western institutions and in the culture itself. Especially given that Muslims are a minority of about 2% or so. When the West was more confident in themselves, they didn’t seem to see the same threat – in fact, some were more cautious about another philosophy taking hold:
    “The reference here, as other commentators made clear, was to Islam’s belief, which it shared with Christianity, in a “future state of rewards and punishments,” a system of celestial carrots and sticks which the Founding generation considered necessary to guarantee good social conduct…Benjamin Rush, the Pennsylvania signer of the Declaration of Independence and friend of Adams and Jefferson, applauded this feature of Islam, asserting that he had ‘rather see the opinions of Confucius or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly devoid of a system of religious principles.’”

    https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw

    When I read statements like this, I see a lack of confidence in Western institutions and in the culture itself. Especially given that Muslims are a minority of about 2% or so.
     
    Why make life more difficult than it needs to be? Muslims are a pernicious minority, even if not a large one in the US. They are a bigger problem in parts of Europe. And yes, there is a lack of confidence in Western institutions, they are the same ones that allowed Muslims in. The West currently has a weak immune system. It must be strengthened, degeneracy and pernicious parasitic minorities coming in must be checked, and institutions must be reformed or new ones developed to carry out this task.

    OK this makes sense – so what happens to the ones already here? Given that they should be accorded ‘equal protection for all citizens.’
     
    A peaceful way should be found to carry out repatriation. Sometimes you have to break the rules to save the rules.
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  194. annamaria says:
    @Sean
    The Russian intervention started with them speaking softly and carrying a small stick and saying they had limited objectives.. Nothing was done because ISIS was the apparent problem and Russia soon actually announced they were finished and definitely going to leave (remember that?). The Russia-Iranian ) forces are now large and advancing as they please. Putin understands that the West is about to tell him to stop and that is why he spoke threateningly a couple of days ago about Russia's nuclear capabilities.

    Trump instantly made his own statement about a American nuclear build up. These veiled menaces (Putin said 'We are stronger now than anyone') are bluff, all talk, no one would use nukes unless the enemy did first. Conventional defeats would have to be accepted. Russia started the nuclear blustering because it is not stronger that the US in any respect. Syrian rebels plus US weapons would halt the Russian advance.

    It is not a quirk of Trump's that he responded in kind, any leader of the US is constrained to act thus; it's a zero sum game.

    Given the difficulty of determining how much power is enough for today and tomorrow, great powers recognize that the best way to ensure their security is to achieve hegemony now, thus eliminating any possibility of a challenge by another great power. Only a misguided state would pass up an opportunity to be the hegemon in the system because it thought it already had sufficient power to survive.
     
    How can US Jews do anything but applaud if Trump saves Israel from becoming a non Jewish or pariah Apartheid state, which is a fate that Ehud Barak, Martin Van Creveld and others of similar stature have foreseen to be inevitable.

    “Russian intervention….”
    Do you really believe that you will be able to convince the UnzReview readers in your interpretation of the last 15 years of wars in the Middle East? Neocons and AIPAC would certainly agree with you, but they are not the honest brokers.

    “Syrian rebels plus US weapons would halt the Russian advance.”
    That’s the clarity in your grouping together the US weaponry and Al Qaeda “rebels.”
    The overwhelming majority of the rebels are affiliates of Al Qaeda (ISIS, IS, Daesh). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/us-support-for-al-qaeda-l_b_10089410.html
    The collaboration of the US military with Al Qaeda is highly desired by Israel-firsters, for obvious reasons. This does not add any luster to the Israel-firsters’ reputation. The war profiteers and Jewish supremacists are eager to sow Dragon’s teeth, but they should expect the inevitable sorry consequences. Exhibit one is the rise of antisemitism in Ukraine that was “liberated” by Mrs. Nuland on the directives of neocons (many of whom happened to be ziocons); the “liberation” has been accomplished in cooperation with Ukrainian neo-Nazis. What is the purpose of Holocaust Museums if Israel emulates Nazi Germany policies towards Palestinian “undermensch” and the US zionists cooperate willingly with neo-Nazis
    The US citizenry has already lost trillions of dollars (and the limbs and lives) during the “war on terror” (see 9/11). For Israel-firsters, the subverting the pliable US brass to cooperate with Al Qaeda is only natural (see Yinon Plan), whereas for the US citizenry at large this is an insult. http://news.antiwar.com/2016/09/19/cia-armed-moderates-in-syria-included-al-qaedas-nusra-front/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sean
    The Russians were extremely cautious and only came in openly after the US decided NOT to overthrow the Assad regime,which could have been done by the US air force in a couple of days. Morover Israel could have done so by a military build up along the Golan. Syria is a nuisance but no serious threat to Israel. Barak offered the Golan to Syria in return for a final settlement remember. Sure it is possible Israel is going to benefit indirectly from the war in Syria, but Jordan is where Israel's mortal peril, the West Bank Arabs, mustgo for Israel to survive as a Jewish state. Israel does not care about Syria.

    Syria is no different to the US, except that the US is a superpower that could have crushed Syria It didn't , although throughout the American occupation of Iraq, most of the suicide bombers were funneled in via Syria.


    https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/hp845.aspx Washington − The U.S. Department of the Treasury today designated four individuals facilitating and controlling the flow of money, weapons, terrorists, and other resources through Syria to al Qaida in Iraq (AQI), including to AQI commanders.

    "Since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, Syria has become a transit station for al Qaida foreign terrorists on their way to Iraq," said Stuart Levey, Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence. "Abu Ghadiyah and his network go to great lengths to facilitate the flow through Syria of money, weapons, and terrorists intent on killing U.S. and Coalition forces and innocent Iraqis."
     

    Maybe US intelligence did try to cause trouble for Assad, but he was no innocent when it came to bombings and terrorism. No state in existence is is innocent, because innocent states are not around for long; it is necessary to be aggressive as and take every opportunity to crush rivals or potential rivals that presents itself. Again, read my except from Professor Mearshiemer work more closely, and you may understand the logic of realism you might already have grasped if you were not so monomaniacal .

    Given the difficulty of determining how much power is enough for today and tomorrow, great powers recognize that the best way to ensure their security is to achieve hegemony now, thus eliminating any possibility of a challenge by another great power. Only a misguided state would pass up an opportunity to be the hegemon in the system because it thought it already had sufficient power to survive.
     
    Saddam built 99 giant statues of fallen commander pointing to Iran: "They Started It". But ' it' has being going on since the Neolithic. Nation states are compelled to attack and try to destroy any country that is or could become a threat to it. Of course the US tried to move in on Russia in Ukraine, and Russia would have done the same to America if it could. Like the US in Afghanistan, Syria used the Jihad against its enemies. In Lebanon Assad's dad succeeded in defeating Israel and the US were bombed out). But this was risky for Syria, and young master Assad compounded the error by putting up the prices of basic necessities, then he found that the the armed insurrection infrastructure was taking root in his country . Listen, the US backed the incipient Viet Cong, and Bin Laden. Doesn't mean that they weren't puppets who pulled their own strings

    Claiming that we owe Syrians for the civil war is justifying them coming to Europe as refugees, and the very same Assad who is squealing like a pig about foreign killers funneled suicide bombers into Iraq to kill our men. Did he expect a pat on the back?

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  195. 1rw says:
    @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Well, the Western world - just like the Muslim world - isn't monolithic. The existence of the minaret ban by the Swiss obviously shows not everything is equal; in fact, it closely resembles the practice in many Muslim societies (historic and current) to prevent non-Muslim houses of worship being built taller than any mosque in their locality.

    Let's put that to the side, because the US is different than Europe in that regard and I live in the US - as I presume you do.

    Therefore the only rational solution is for the west to prohibit Muslim settlement in their countries.
     
    OK this makes sense - so what happens to the ones already here? Given that they should be accorded 'equal protection for all citizens.'

    Coexistence is impossible on terms favorable for Western/Christian countries.
     
    When I read statements like this, I see a lack of confidence in Western institutions and in the culture itself. Especially given that Muslims are a minority of about 2% or so. When the West was more confident in themselves, they didn't seem to see the same threat - in fact, some were more cautious about another philosophy taking hold:
    "The reference here, as other commentators made clear, was to Islam's belief, which it shared with Christianity, in a "future state of rewards and punishments," a system of celestial carrots and sticks which the Founding generation considered necessary to guarantee good social conduct...Benjamin Rush, the Pennsylvania signer of the Declaration of Independence and friend of Adams and Jefferson, applauded this feature of Islam, asserting that he had 'rather see the opinions of Confucius or Mohammed inculcated upon our youth than see them grow up wholly devoid of a system of religious principles.'"
    https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html

    Peace.

    When I read statements like this, I see a lack of confidence in Western institutions and in the culture itself. Especially given that Muslims are a minority of about 2% or so.

    Why make life more difficult than it needs to be? Muslims are a pernicious minority, even if not a large one in the US. They are a bigger problem in parts of Europe. And yes, there is a lack of confidence in Western institutions, they are the same ones that allowed Muslims in. The West currently has a weak immune system. It must be strengthened, degeneracy and pernicious parasitic minorities coming in must be checked, and institutions must be reformed or new ones developed to carry out this task.

    OK this makes sense – so what happens to the ones already here? Given that they should be accorded ‘equal protection for all citizens.’

    A peaceful way should be found to carry out repatriation. Sometimes you have to break the rules to save the rules.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    Sometimes you have to break the rules to save the rules.
     
    Then there are no rules - ergo, why the sacred law sees us as dhimmis in non-Muslim lands despite labels of 'citizen', 'resident', etc.

    This is the same problem, famed statistician, Nicholas Taleb wrote about (see the section called Popper's Paradox):
    "As I am writing these lines, people are disputing whether the freedom of the enlightened West can be undermined by the intrusive policies that would be needed to fight Salafi fundamentalists.
    Clearly can democracy –by definition the majority — tolerate enemies? The question is as follows: 'Would you agree to deny the freedom of speech to every political party that has in its charter the banning the freedom of speech?' Let’s go one step further, 'Should a society that has elected to be tolerant be intolerant about intolerance?'
    This is in fact the incoherence that Kurt Gödel (the grandmaster of logical rigor) detected in the constitution while taking the naturalization exam."
    https://medium.com/@nntaleb/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15#.10mqe9meh

    It would seem to me then that, for centuries, Islamic scholarship got the formula fine-tuned to the point where freedom of religion and practice did not need to be curtailed*, nor the presence of non-Muslim minorities - rather the legal framework was defined in a way so that the social order, institutions and hierarchy were not fundamentally threatened. There seem to be wisdoms in restricting blasphemy or having rules in who can be president or chief justice after all.

    Peace.

    *Note: Even though there were certain jurists that regions where non-Muslims could not do things like ring church bells or have religious processions, if one knows the absolute requirements of the non-Muslim pact of security, one also knows that there are difference of opinion on these and none but the most basic restrictions are requisites (like the ones I mentioned in #165).
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  196. 1RW says:
    @Talha
    Hey 1rw,

    What explanation does it need - in every society there are those that are into homosexuality and pederasty - if you don't know that, you haven't read history. It shows up and gains wider or lesser acceptance in various societies through the vicissitudes of time. Now, if one is claiming that this is an acceptable practice in Islam - prove it. Find one jurist (of any of the four existing schools - or even one from an extinct school) that accepted the act as legal. There are Muslims all over the world that imbibe alcohol - some in my extended family - do you really think that means Islam allows consuming alcohol?

    The better question is, why did we put the 'boy players' in charge? (according to our own military):
    “The Taliban made the practice punishable by death, but bacha bazi has been resurrected since the fall of the Taliban.”
    https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/quarterlyreports/2015-10-30qr.pdf

    Peace.

    Look, there’s theory, then there’s practice. And the practice seems prevalent. And I think Islam both tries to keep the degeneracy in check, and inadvertently causes it with its strict cloistering of women. I just want that practice to stay over there. And its practitioners. Because they are gross and stupid.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    And the practice seems prevalent.
     
    Yes in Afghanistan. I grew up in Pakistan - you should hear the jokes they have about this practice among the Pashtun.

    Islam both tries to keep the degeneracy in check, and inadvertently causes it with its strict cloistering of women.
     
    Possibly - from what I've seen, the more major problem are the cultural restrictions that make marrying for a young man, very difficult without a boat-load of money in many Muslim countries:
    "Rania Salem, a professor at the University of Toronto who studies the consequences of high marriage costs in Egypt, said that a groom on average has to save his entire earnings for about three and a half years to finance his share of costs, while the average bride has to save for six months for hers. But given the paucity of well-paid jobs now, men have to wait longer. "
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/egypts-marriage-crisis-sons-daughters-too-broke-be-married-waiting-f2D11711756

    "In Afghanistan, one of the poorest countries in the world, bridegrooms are expected to pay not only for their weddings, but also all the related expenses, including several huge prewedding parties and money for the bride’s family, a kind of reverse dowry...Extravagant weddings, a mainstay of modern Afghan life and an important measure of social status, were banned by the Taliban, which also outlawed beauty parlors and the instrumental music that is traditional at wedding parties."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/world/asia/14weddings.html

    What do you think is going to happen? We were warned about this tendency and were encouraged to keep things frugal and simple:
    “If there comes to you to marry (your daughter) one, who with whose religious commitment and character you are pleased, then marry (your daughter) to him, for if you do not do that, there will be fitnah (tribulation) in the land and widespread corruption.” reported by al-Tirmidhi

    “The most blessed nikah (marriage ceremony) is the one with the least expenses.” reported in Bayhaqi

    We will continue to suffer these afflictions as long as we ignore the advice.


    I just want that practice to stay over there. And its practitioners. Because they are gross and stupid.
     
    Ditto.

    Peace.

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  197. Talha says:
    @1rw

    When I read statements like this, I see a lack of confidence in Western institutions and in the culture itself. Especially given that Muslims are a minority of about 2% or so.
     
    Why make life more difficult than it needs to be? Muslims are a pernicious minority, even if not a large one in the US. They are a bigger problem in parts of Europe. And yes, there is a lack of confidence in Western institutions, they are the same ones that allowed Muslims in. The West currently has a weak immune system. It must be strengthened, degeneracy and pernicious parasitic minorities coming in must be checked, and institutions must be reformed or new ones developed to carry out this task.

    OK this makes sense – so what happens to the ones already here? Given that they should be accorded ‘equal protection for all citizens.’
     
    A peaceful way should be found to carry out repatriation. Sometimes you have to break the rules to save the rules.

    Hey 1rw,

    Sometimes you have to break the rules to save the rules.

    Then there are no rules – ergo, why the sacred law sees us as dhimmis in non-Muslim lands despite labels of ‘citizen’, ‘resident’, etc.

    This is the same problem, famed statistician, Nicholas Taleb wrote about (see the section called Popper’s Paradox):
    “As I am writing these lines, people are disputing whether the freedom of the enlightened West can be undermined by the intrusive policies that would be needed to fight Salafi fundamentalists.
    Clearly can democracy –by definition the majority — tolerate enemies? The question is as follows: ‘Would you agree to deny the freedom of speech to every political party that has in its charter the banning the freedom of speech?’ Let’s go one step further, ‘Should a society that has elected to be tolerant be intolerant about intolerance?’
    This is in fact the incoherence that Kurt Gödel (the grandmaster of logical rigor) detected in the constitution while taking the naturalization exam.”

    https://medium.com/@nntaleb/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15#.10mqe9meh

    It would seem to me then that, for centuries, Islamic scholarship got the formula fine-tuned to the point where freedom of religion and practice did not need to be curtailed*, nor the presence of non-Muslim minorities – rather the legal framework was defined in a way so that the social order, institutions and hierarchy were not fundamentally threatened. There seem to be wisdoms in restricting blasphemy or having rules in who can be president or chief justice after all.

    Peace.

    *Note: Even though there were certain jurists that regions where non-Muslims could not do things like ring church bells or have religious processions, if one knows the absolute requirements of the non-Muslim pact of security, one also knows that there are difference of opinion on these and none but the most basic restrictions are requisites (like the ones I mentioned in #165).

    Read More
    • Replies: @1rw

    ‘Should a society that has elected to be tolerant be intolerant about intolerance?’
     
    Actually the early US legislation made it clear that franchise was restricted to the "right" people. Naturalization was restricted to free white men, and the vote to property owners. You, my Pakistani friend, would never have been able to live as anything but an alien in the US of the 1800s.

    "Tolerance" as it is interpreted and applied now is a recent innovation, which really took root after WW2. It desperately needs to be rolled back.

    There is also the understanding that full freedoms that the law grants its citizens is predicated on "normal" conditions. Freedoms are curtailed during a crisis such as war, natural disasters, or civil unrest. This is both obvious, and has been practiced since Ancient Rome, which appointed Dictators to rule with total authority during a crisis.

    Finally, a lot of people get fixated on the "all men are created equal" phrase from the Declaration of Independence, but it is not a law, and it was written by slave holders to a King, who certainly felt otherwise. Thus it is nothing more than an incendiary piece of correspondence, not a legal principle in a nation that soon thereafter decided negroes counted as 3/5ths of a white man in congress.
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  198. Talha says:
    @1RW
    Look, there's theory, then there's practice. And the practice seems prevalent. And I think Islam both tries to keep the degeneracy in check, and inadvertently causes it with its strict cloistering of women. I just want that practice to stay over there. And its practitioners. Because they are gross and stupid.

    And the practice seems prevalent.

    Yes in Afghanistan. I grew up in Pakistan – you should hear the jokes they have about this practice among the Pashtun.

    Islam both tries to keep the degeneracy in check, and inadvertently causes it with its strict cloistering of women.

    Possibly – from what I’ve seen, the more major problem are the cultural restrictions that make marrying for a young man, very difficult without a boat-load of money in many Muslim countries:
    “Rania Salem, a professor at the University of Toronto who studies the consequences of high marriage costs in Egypt, said that a groom on average has to save his entire earnings for about three and a half years to finance his share of costs, while the average bride has to save for six months for hers. But given the paucity of well-paid jobs now, men have to wait longer. ”

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/egypts-marriage-crisis-sons-daughters-too-broke-be-married-waiting-f2D11711756

    “In Afghanistan, one of the poorest countries in the world, bridegrooms are expected to pay not only for their weddings, but also all the related expenses, including several huge prewedding parties and money for the bride’s family, a kind of reverse dowry…Extravagant weddings, a mainstay of modern Afghan life and an important measure of social status, were banned by the Taliban, which also outlawed beauty parlors and the instrumental music that is traditional at wedding parties.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/world/asia/14weddings.html

    What do you think is going to happen? We were warned about this tendency and were encouraged to keep things frugal and simple:
    “If there comes to you to marry (your daughter) one, who with whose religious commitment and character you are pleased, then marry (your daughter) to him, for if you do not do that, there will be fitnah (tribulation) in the land and widespread corruption.” reported by al-Tirmidhi

    “The most blessed nikah (marriage ceremony) is the one with the least expenses.” reported in Bayhaqi

    We will continue to suffer these afflictions as long as we ignore the advice.

    I just want that practice to stay over there. And its practitioners. Because they are gross and stupid.

    Ditto.

    Peace.

    Read More
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  199. @Sam Shama
    [I would suggest to you again that the problem is the rate of increase relative to the rate of increase of output, not the level.]

    No, not especially; that is a common mistake made by Austrian 'economics', one with aspirations to 'dynamic theory', that rates of change because they sound so dynamic must thus be the bee's knees. I don't mean to sound acerbic, only that I find it odd why intelligent people don't get it.

    If the argument is that very very high levels of debt [as a result of fast debt accumulation] eventually lead to crashes, one could claim with equal validity that very low levels of debt bespeak an anaemic economy.

    If you are going to compare the rate of change of output i.e, growth, it is logical to compare it with the rate of interest. It is even better to compare growth rates to inflation and interest. For all that should matter is the interest bill be easily accommodated by the rate of growth of income. Debt rose very fast during and after WWII and the economy saw one of the longest sustained expansions in modern times until the crude oil shock of the late seventies dealt a blow.

    Debt worry, debt scolding etc., are little else than vestiges of religious cant and the incorrectly inferred common equivalence drawn to individual household book-balancing by von Mises and the Austrians. Household accounting rules if dogmatically applied to the economy will almost certainly lead to a fallacy of composition.

    I labour and hope to impress upon my interlocutors on this matter that the total level of credit/debt in the modern context ought to be viewed as a whole. Thus the high rate of public debt accumulation was a deliberate policy action undertaken by the Fed to counter a precipitous decline in private and corporate debt levels. Had it failed to do so - Congressional fiscal action having had been conspicuous by its absence - th