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The New Sectionalism–Elites Don’t Just Hate the South, They Hate America
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So President Trump’s chief of staff, former Marine Corps General John Kelly, praised Confederate General Robert E. Lee on Fox News: “Robert E. Lee was an honorable man. He was a man who gave up his country to fight for his state.”

Those are accurate statements, so far as I know. They wouldn’t have been very controversial prior to this summer’s spasm of hysteria over historical statues. They were not very controversial when President Eisenhower had a portrait of General Lee in his White House office. As Ike pointed out when someone grumbled about this, the constitutionality of secession was an open question in 1861.

Lee was not a fan of secession. Once it was a fait accompli, though, he had to choose his loyalty, state or nation. As General Kelly said, he chose his state, and acted with unfailing courage and dignity in defense of that cause.

And defense it was: As Southerners tell you, the Confederates didn’t want to take over the U.S.A; they wanted to get out of it.

And as historian Gene Dattel points out in his new book Reckoning with Race, if toleration of slavery is the touchstone, we had better get busy renaming Washington Square, Madison Avenue, Yale University, the innumerable places and institutions named after Ben Franklin, and so on.

Even some neocons came to the defense of Generals Kelly and Lee — Ralph Peters in the New York Post, for example:

Now we’re re-fighting our Civil War with neo-Stalinist, fact-purging propaganda that makes cartoon villains of the dead. We rush to tear down statues of men we refuse to understand. We rob one group of citizens of their heritage to please another …

Lest I sound like a Southern sympathizer, let me state that my sentiments are pure Yankee. I lost an ancestor who wore blue and recently visited his grave in the National Cemetery in Beaufort, SC.

Kelly Is Right About Robert E. Lee, October 31, 2017

As Colonel Peters implies, we are seeing a deliberate reviva l of sectionalism, a wilful re-opening of wounds we thought were long healed.

This is not, like mid-nineteenth-century sectionalism, strictly geographical. To be sure, maps of last year’s election results down to the county level show blue oases — mainly coastal and urban — in a sea of red. But the old South, the Confederacy, is not especially red.

This new sectional division is all over. Like the old one, it’s mainly whites against whites, with other races in supporting or auxiliary roles. That’s why I’ve been calling our current cultural conflict the Cold Civil War. Today’s Johnny Reb, though, is as likely to be a Minnesota machine-tool operator as an Alabama farm boy, as likely to be a computer programmer in New Jersey as a stevedore in New Orleans. The dividing line between the sections is no longer the one drawn by Mr. Mason and Mr Dixon; nowadays that line runs through every state, every town, perhaps every street in the nation.

The passions are as strong as the old sectionalist ones, though. Have you had one of those encounters with a person you didn’t know well, where it somehow emerged that you are a Trump supporter, and the other person flushed angrily, pursed her lips, perhaps said something vituperative, then turned on her heel and stormed off? I had one just the other day.

The awful thing — I don’t think it’s a stretch to say the tragic thing — is that those fomenting this new sectionalism, by for example striving to demonize, or re-demonize, figures like Robert E. Lee, are un-stitching a fabric that was sewn together, very deliberately and painstakingly, by Americans who had actually been through the Civil War.

I’m indebted here to a friend who has just recently lent me a book I did not know about, title The Road to Reunion, 1865-1900 [Ebook] by Paul Buck, published in 1937. It is, simply, the story of that stitching together — as the author says in his introduction, quote: “The history of how two bitter foes were reconciled, two rival societies harmonized.”

The aspect of this stitching-together that is I think best known, and which I already knew, was the failure of the movement for treason trials after the Civil War, and the release after two years’ imprisonment of Jefferson Davis. His bail was posted by prominent Union figures and abolitionists like Horace Greeley and Cornelius Vanderbilt.

One of the most moving passages in this book concerns the last days of Ulysses S. Grant:

From this point of view [Grant’s desire for peace between the sections], his presidency was a failure, the magnanimity of Appomattox giving way to the excesses of Reconstruction. But in retirement the sturdy qualities of the soldier reappeared. There was something about Grant which suggested indifference to petty quarrels, the bigness of a man who once having fought deplores the indulgence of continued strife. His life closed as did his Memoirs with a fervent prayer for good feeling between the sections. Gradually succumbing to an incurable disease his tranquil and manly fortitude at Mount McGregor won the sympathy of the nation. Throughout his suffering he gave evidence of a hearty and unreserved friendliness toward those who had fought against the Union. The magnanimity of his last words revealed a spirit which went far in composing lingering differences.

He would not have been displeased, therefore, had he been able to witness the union of the sections around his outworn body. The entire country felt the bereavement of his loss. Distinguished Confederate generals wearing gray sashes served as pallbearers with leading officers of the Union army. The spectacle was striking and sincere.

One of the observers described that spectacle as “the virtual conclusion of sectional animosity in America.”

That was in 1885, twenty years after the war’s conclusion. That was the fabric of national unity stitched together so carefully by the Civil War generation.

Now it is being unstitched. That’s the meaning of this renewed hostility to the Confederate flag, to monuments of Lee and Jackson, even to the banning of that fine American book and movie Gone with the Wind.

We are seeing the rise of a new sectionalism, a sundering of what our great-grandfathers so painstakingly put back together.

The agitators who are doing this are driven by a poisonous and fanatical ideology, to which the very idea of a nation is hateful.

Americans who love their country and want to see it carried forward to the future whole and healthy, should resist these agitators with all our might.

2010-12-24dl[1]

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com:FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare.com by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Hail says: • Website

    This new sectional division is all over. Like the old one, it’s mainly whites against whites, with other races in supporting or auxiliary roles.

    What happens when the auxiliaries of one side end up the majority of that side? And, later, a super-majority?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon

    What happens when the auxiliaries of one side end up the majority of that side? And, later, a super-majority?
     
    Ask the Britons, whose country is now named after their Angle auxilliaries.
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  2. Amen. What the left is doing to this country is heartbreaking. It didn’t have to be this way.

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  3. Am I the only one who thinks the low-latitude states should not have been in a position to secede because they should have been expelled from the Union decades before?

    Some of these cotton republics had African majorities, which showed up in their Congressional representation, thanks to the eight-fifths rule which gave the zookeeper bloated influence.

    If you want to know where “celebrating diversity”, multiculturalism, and all the rest came from, look at 19th-century– and 18th and 17th– America. It was there from the start.

    No white person in his right mind would want a large contingent of Africans in his– his children’s– homeland. Yet that was what both sides were fighting for.

    They reconciled so quickly because they realized that each was as stupid as the other.

    Read More
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  4. I’ve been reading John for years and love his stuff, but there’s no way to “restitch” the old Union. As commenter Hail said above, the demographics have changed and are changing, such that the old union can never again exist. We need to move beyond “civic nationalism,” or “Americanism,” and embrace white identity. Not all whites want to go that way, and those who don’t are free to live with their beloved peoples of color until, quite likely, their house pets turn on them. John is right on one thing, the geography of the inevitable separation will be agonizing.

    Read More
    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    Sad but true, I fear.
    , @bartok

    the geography of the inevitable separation will be agonizing
     
    The US is already quite happily segregated by race, and race is upstream of politics. The GOP could make itself useful to its White voting base by better defending the de facto segregation. But even if the GOP falls to a permanent minority, as in California, segregation will continue to thrive, as in California.
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  5. I forgot to add in my first comment that Christ Church in Alexandria, Virginia is taking down commemorative plaques honoring not only Robert E. Lee but George Washington. So the “Goodwhites” and their allies are not only opposed to the “reunification” after 1865, but to the white man who, everyone agrees was indispensable to achieving independence and to founding the original United States. Today they remove and tear down out icons–tomorrow they’ll be coming after us.

    All the king’s horses and all the king’s men (and all the civic nationalists) can’t put Humpty Dumpty together again.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "We need to move beyond “civic nationalism,” or “Americanism,” and embrace white identity."

    YOU may feel free to embrace white identity, because whites can certainly make their own decisions about race and culture.

    "Not all whites want to go that way, and those who don’t are free to live with their beloved peoples of color until, quite likely, their house pets turn on them."

    Quite unlikely, you mean.

    "John is right on one thing, the geography of the inevitable separation will be agonizing."

    Separation MAY occur. Do not be so certain that it is a "sure thing".
    , @Rhett Hardwick
    I believe that Alexandria is largely populated by "carpetbaggers" from Washington,.
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  6. These NY elites.

    NY Time has been running some positive articles on Bolshevism. Do they wanna touch upon Jewish role in communist mass killings and destruction of 50,000 churches?

    And speaking of racial prejudice, what about Nakba and apartheid in West Bank?
    And what about sanctions against Iraq that killed so many innocent children?

    And why was the North any better than the South? If we gonna play PC game, the North was settled by ‘genocide’ of Indians. And Northerners continued to ‘genocide’ the Indians via Westward expansion. And Emma Lazarus called for MORE immigrants so that remaining Indians would also be ‘genocided’.

    If we play PC-game properly, the North sucked just as much as the South.

    If we do away with PC, we can understand history with more complexity and depth.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Logan
    The people of both sections got rid of their Indians, by either genocide or, much more often, ethnic cleansing. With the exception of the wartime years, during which little attention was paid to Indian issues, it was done, not by sections, but by the nation as a whole.

    For instance, the Trail of Tears, shorthand for the expulsion of the Five Civilized Tribes, was initiated and mostly completed under a southern and slaveowning President.
    , @Alden
    Historians agree that in 1500 there were about one million Indians living in what is now the Continental United States.There are now about three million full Indians and millions more partial Indians living in the United States.

    Since the Europeans settled the United States, the Indian population has increased.

    That is not genocide. Don't believe everything you read.
    , @Alden
    NYSlimes has run positive articles on Bolshevism since around 1900. And why not????
    Both the Slimes and Bolshevism were and still are Jewish entities.
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  7. TTSSYF says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    I've been reading John for years and love his stuff, but there's no way to "restitch" the old Union. As commenter Hail said above, the demographics have changed and are changing, such that the old union can never again exist. We need to move beyond "civic nationalism," or "Americanism," and embrace white identity. Not all whites want to go that way, and those who don't are free to live with their beloved peoples of color until, quite likely, their house pets turn on them. John is right on one thing, the geography of the inevitable separation will be agonizing.

    Sad but true, I fear.

    Read More
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  8. Logan says:
    @Priss Factor
    These NY elites.

    NY Time has been running some positive articles on Bolshevism. Do they wanna touch upon Jewish role in communist mass killings and destruction of 50,000 churches?

    And speaking of racial prejudice, what about Nakba and apartheid in West Bank?
    And what about sanctions against Iraq that killed so many innocent children?

    And why was the North any better than the South? If we gonna play PC game, the North was settled by 'genocide' of Indians. And Northerners continued to 'genocide' the Indians via Westward expansion. And Emma Lazarus called for MORE immigrants so that remaining Indians would also be 'genocided'.

    If we play PC-game properly, the North sucked just as much as the South.

    If we do away with PC, we can understand history with more complexity and depth.

    The people of both sections got rid of their Indians, by either genocide or, much more often, ethnic cleansing. With the exception of the wartime years, during which little attention was paid to Indian issues, it was done, not by sections, but by the nation as a whole.

    For instance, the Trail of Tears, shorthand for the expulsion of the Five Civilized Tribes, was initiated and mostly completed under a southern and slaveowning President.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  9. Well, John, you show more interest in, understanding of and compassion for these United States, your adopted country, than many or most Americans. And I want to thank you for that.

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    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
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  10. Brabantian says: • Website

    Interesting to note the large number of recent USA mass killings etc allegedly done by leftists / ‘Democratic party sh-tlibs’, which are interpreted two opposite ways

    Some say that leftie types are freaking out in significant numbers, one-by-one trying to start a new civil war against normie America

    The opposite claim, is that the USA Deep State is in process of changing its preferences, & now beginning to run a series of dodgy false-flag events supporting rightist narratives, whereas some earlier false-flags or manipulated events such as Charlottesville, supported leftist ones

    Key data points, recent attacks by lefties or those in lefty-supported categories -

    14 Jun 2017: ‘Bernie Sanders supporter James Tom Hodgkinson, killed during events’, allegedly shoots 4 including leading Republican Congressman Steve Scalise at baseball practice

    24 Sep 2017: Sudanese immigrant Emanuel Kidega Samson – said to be a Christian rather than Muslim – accused of shooting church group in Tennessee, 1 killed, 7 wounded

    1 Oct 2017: ‘Now-dead registered Democrat Stephen Paddock’ allegedly kills 60, wounds over 500, at Las Vegas country music concert

    31 Oct 2017: Uzbek Muslim Sayfullo Saipov allegedly kills 8, wounds 11 in New York bicycle path van attack

    4 Nov 2017: Republican Senator Rand Paul attacked in his home & has ribs broken, allegedly by ‘registered Democrat Rene Boucher’

    5 Nov 2017: Texas church attack kills 27, wounds others, alleged ‘now-dead killer is CNN fan, atheist & leftist SJW supporter’ Devin Kelley … We are also presented with a ‘Texas gun-toting hero’, Johnnie Langendorff, a bystander, who with a gun & another man, are said to have saved lives, scared the gunman away & given chase before Devin Kelley went to his death in the next county

    Plus, the Hollywood personalities being, all-of-a-sudden-after-all-these-years, taken down for long-ago sex crimes & underage sexual violation scandals – Harvey Weinstein & the rest – can be seen as a take-down of a ‘leftist’ media industry, benefiting the right

    Read More
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  11. Corvinus says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    I forgot to add in my first comment that Christ Church in Alexandria, Virginia is taking down commemorative plaques honoring not only Robert E. Lee but George Washington. So the "Goodwhites" and their allies are not only opposed to the "reunification" after 1865, but to the white man who, everyone agrees was indispensable to achieving independence and to founding the original United States. Today they remove and tear down out icons--tomorrow they'll be coming after us.

    All the king's horses and all the king's men (and all the civic nationalists) can't put Humpty Dumpty together again.

    “We need to move beyond “civic nationalism,” or “Americanism,” and embrace white identity.”

    YOU may feel free to embrace white identity, because whites can certainly make their own decisions about race and culture.

    “Not all whites want to go that way, and those who don’t are free to live with their beloved peoples of color until, quite likely, their house pets turn on them.”

    Quite unlikely, you mean.

    “John is right on one thing, the geography of the inevitable separation will be agonizing.”

    Separation MAY occur. Do not be so certain that it is a “sure thing”.

    Read More
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  12. Mr. Anon says:
    @Hail

    This new sectional division is all over. Like the old one, it’s mainly whites against whites, with other races in supporting or auxiliary roles.
     
    What happens when the auxiliaries of one side end up the majority of that side? And, later, a super-majority?

    What happens when the auxiliaries of one side end up the majority of that side? And, later, a super-majority?

    Ask the Britons, whose country is now named after their Angle auxilliaries.

    Read More
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  13. Ragno says:

    Robt Conquest’s famous, yet too-little-cited, Second Law:

    Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.

    Reagan had the enthusiastic support of a nation behind him, but his damn scarecrow of a wife made him play patty-cake with the Left – and the rest, tragically, wrote itself. (By the time the second Bush showed up, with McCain and Romney hot on his heels, “conservatism” had all but ceased to exist, save for scary shadows on the walls of Leftist caves, and the kind of Leviathan-capitalism that effectively dismantled forever the owner-operated small business that not only built this nation’s prosperity, but provided most of her backbone.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Reagan did absolutely nothing about affirmative action discrimination against Whites. He encouraged, lobbied for and joyfully signed an amnesty bill for illegals. It had nothing to do with his wife.

    He lobbied for amnesty or non White illegals. He did nothing about affirmative action. Reagan was a true conservative President; a tool of the anti White Capitalists who want affirmative action and replacement of White workers at every level with brown immigrants.

    Conservatives don't spout vocal hatred of Whites the way liberals do. But being pro capitalist, conservatives are as anti White as liberals.
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  14. Lincoln was an Imperialist. Lee was a Nationalist. The Imperialists have been in charge since Appomattox. Today we call them Globalists. Today’s Nationalists bear the name their enemies gave them. Deplorables.

    OT
    I nominate Derb to write an obituary for The Enlightenment. Many are unaware of it’s passing.

    It’s Okay to be white.

    Read More
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  15. Alden says:
    @Priss Factor
    These NY elites.

    NY Time has been running some positive articles on Bolshevism. Do they wanna touch upon Jewish role in communist mass killings and destruction of 50,000 churches?

    And speaking of racial prejudice, what about Nakba and apartheid in West Bank?
    And what about sanctions against Iraq that killed so many innocent children?

    And why was the North any better than the South? If we gonna play PC game, the North was settled by 'genocide' of Indians. And Northerners continued to 'genocide' the Indians via Westward expansion. And Emma Lazarus called for MORE immigrants so that remaining Indians would also be 'genocided'.

    If we play PC-game properly, the North sucked just as much as the South.

    If we do away with PC, we can understand history with more complexity and depth.

    Historians agree that in 1500 there were about one million Indians living in what is now the Continental United States.There are now about three million full Indians and millions more partial Indians living in the United States.

    Since the Europeans settled the United States, the Indian population has increased.

    That is not genocide. Don’t believe everything you read.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Historians agree that in 1500 there were about one million Indians living in what is now the Continental United States.There are now about three million full Indians and millions more partial Indians living in the United States."

    Who are these historians? I'm sure you are able to provide references, right? Because the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish. But I'm all ears if you are able to offer some sources.
    , @Truth
    I would have hated to be the census taker that had to ride a horse from Philly to Bismarck and count all the Injuns inbetween.
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  16. Alden says:
    @Priss Factor
    These NY elites.

    NY Time has been running some positive articles on Bolshevism. Do they wanna touch upon Jewish role in communist mass killings and destruction of 50,000 churches?

    And speaking of racial prejudice, what about Nakba and apartheid in West Bank?
    And what about sanctions against Iraq that killed so many innocent children?

    And why was the North any better than the South? If we gonna play PC game, the North was settled by 'genocide' of Indians. And Northerners continued to 'genocide' the Indians via Westward expansion. And Emma Lazarus called for MORE immigrants so that remaining Indians would also be 'genocided'.

    If we play PC-game properly, the North sucked just as much as the South.

    If we do away with PC, we can understand history with more complexity and depth.

    NYSlimes has run positive articles on Bolshevism since around 1900. And why not????
    Both the Slimes and Bolshevism were and still are Jewish entities.

    Read More
    ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
  17. Alden says:
    @Ragno
    Robt Conquest's famous, yet too-little-cited, Second Law:

    Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.

    Reagan had the enthusiastic support of a nation behind him, but his damn scarecrow of a wife made him play patty-cake with the Left - and the rest, tragically, wrote itself. (By the time the second Bush showed up, with McCain and Romney hot on his heels, "conservatism" had all but ceased to exist, save for scary shadows on the walls of Leftist caves, and the kind of Leviathan-capitalism that effectively dismantled forever the owner-operated small business that not only built this nation's prosperity, but provided most of her backbone.)

    Reagan did absolutely nothing about affirmative action discrimination against Whites. He encouraged, lobbied for and joyfully signed an amnesty bill for illegals. It had nothing to do with his wife.

    He lobbied for amnesty or non White illegals. He did nothing about affirmative action. Reagan was a true conservative President; a tool of the anti White Capitalists who want affirmative action and replacement of White workers at every level with brown immigrants.

    Conservatives don’t spout vocal hatred of Whites the way liberals do. But being pro capitalist, conservatives are as anti White as liberals.

    Read More
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  18. John

    What’s the Greek word for stitching?…Something like symplectic….

    Two Nations living on the same LIVING AND BREEDING SPACE..

    One…The Historic Majority Native Born White American Nation….

    The other…The Kamala Harris-Preet Bharara Majority Nonwhite “America” Nation….

    One or the other Nation will experience MASS EXPULSION….

    Read More
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  19. Let M1=The Historic Native Born White American Symplectic Manifold

    Let M2=The Kamala Harris-Preet Bharara Majority Nonwhite Democratic Party Symplectic Manifold

    Take the symplectic + sum of M1 and M2……not equal to one big happy Symplectic Coast to Coast Symplectic Nation…….Humpty Dumpty fell off the f…..g wall……what a GD stinking reeking mess…toilet actually……..rotting sulphorous smell…

    America ain’t gonna be stitched back together…

    M1 and M2 can not be stitched together on the same exact LIVING AND BREEDING SPACE…

    What is the Symplectic glue…the toilet paper known as the Constitution?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Issac
    "What is the Symplectic glue"

    That much is obvious. The intended glue is the miscegenation of the M1 population into the M2 population. Think of it as reverse-assimilation. Of course, there is little chance than the hybrid population will be any more cohesive than the initial M1 and M2, particularly given the gap between high-functioning minority groups and low-functioning minority groups is wider than the same gap between whites and any given minority group. But, in the view of your political elite, this fact will be counter-weighted by the emergence of a mystery-meat managerial class. A whole bureaucracy full of multi-racial ~90IQ mandarins who will dutifully oversee the project of continued global integration.
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  20. Issac says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Let M1=The Historic Native Born White American Symplectic Manifold


    Let M2=The Kamala Harris-Preet Bharara Majority Nonwhite Democratic Party Symplectic Manifold

    Take the symplectic + sum of M1 and M2......not equal to one big happy Symplectic Coast to Coast Symplectic Nation.......Humpty Dumpty fell off the f.....g wall......what a GD stinking reeking mess...toilet actually........rotting sulphorous smell...

    America ain’t gonna be stitched back together...


    M1 and M2 can not be stitched together on the same exact LIVING AND BREEDING SPACE...


    What is the Symplectic glue...the toilet paper known as the Constitution?

    “What is the Symplectic glue”

    That much is obvious. The intended glue is the miscegenation of the M1 population into the M2 population. Think of it as reverse-assimilation. Of course, there is little chance than the hybrid population will be any more cohesive than the initial M1 and M2, particularly given the gap between high-functioning minority groups and low-functioning minority groups is wider than the same gap between whites and any given minority group. But, in the view of your political elite, this fact will be counter-weighted by the emergence of a mystery-meat managerial class. A whole bureaucracy full of multi-racial ~90IQ mandarins who will dutifully oversee the project of continued global integration.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Issac

    But the M3 Symplectic genetic chimera freak show will be LIVING AND BREEDING in....and on....a malodorous- stinking-reeking-filthy TOILET BOWL.....with curry turds floating on top-complements of The filthy Irish Catholic Cockroach Teddy Kennedy....

    And it’s no exaggeration to say this.....for post-White Toilet America will be paved over with soul-murdering suburban tracts and strip malls.....And you know what comes with this fucking monstrosity.....for it is all built on top of cesspools feeding into streams...streams feeding into rivers...rivers feeding into a giant ocean of flowing sewage underneath.......... from stinking turd colored sea...to stinking turd colored sea......but we will have a lot more choices of ethnic food at the food court at the Mall of America in Somalian Muslim MOHAMMADAN GANG RAPE ARMY MINNESOTA!!!


    Question:What new tree of life will be spawned...flesh-eating-bacteria?...oh wait...we have already been blessed with this new...malignantly lethal form of being BLESSED BY DIVERSITY!!!!

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  21. @Issac
    "What is the Symplectic glue"

    That much is obvious. The intended glue is the miscegenation of the M1 population into the M2 population. Think of it as reverse-assimilation. Of course, there is little chance than the hybrid population will be any more cohesive than the initial M1 and M2, particularly given the gap between high-functioning minority groups and low-functioning minority groups is wider than the same gap between whites and any given minority group. But, in the view of your political elite, this fact will be counter-weighted by the emergence of a mystery-meat managerial class. A whole bureaucracy full of multi-racial ~90IQ mandarins who will dutifully oversee the project of continued global integration.

    Issac

    But the M3 Symplectic genetic chimera freak show will be LIVING AND BREEDING in….and on….a malodorous- stinking-reeking-filthy TOILET BOWL…..with curry turds floating on top-complements of The filthy Irish Catholic Cockroach Teddy Kennedy….

    And it’s no exaggeration to say this…..for post-White Toilet America will be paved over with soul-murdering suburban tracts and strip malls…..And you know what comes with this fucking monstrosity…..for it is all built on top of cesspools feeding into streams…streams feeding into rivers…rivers feeding into a giant ocean of flowing sewage underneath………. from stinking turd colored sea…to stinking turd colored sea……but we will have a lot more choices of ethnic food at the food court at the Mall of America in Somalian Muslim MOHAMMADAN GANG RAPE ARMY MINNESOTA!!!

    Question:What new tree of life will be spawned…flesh-eating-bacteria?…oh wait…we have already been blessed with this new…malignantly lethal form of being BLESSED BY DIVERSITY!!!!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Issac
    Well yes, of course, nobody said the utopia imagined by the upper class was going to actually be "utopian," for most involved. Indeed, for the surviving white minority outside of the upper class, it will be quite dystopian.
    , @36 ulster
    From now on WFBM, you're switching to decaf.
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  22. The problem as I see it is that conservatives are neither moral enough nor smart enough to hate the US government.

    One way or another, the Beltway Barbarians will completely destroy America while the conservatives look on.

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  23. Issac says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Issac

    But the M3 Symplectic genetic chimera freak show will be LIVING AND BREEDING in....and on....a malodorous- stinking-reeking-filthy TOILET BOWL.....with curry turds floating on top-complements of The filthy Irish Catholic Cockroach Teddy Kennedy....

    And it’s no exaggeration to say this.....for post-White Toilet America will be paved over with soul-murdering suburban tracts and strip malls.....And you know what comes with this fucking monstrosity.....for it is all built on top of cesspools feeding into streams...streams feeding into rivers...rivers feeding into a giant ocean of flowing sewage underneath.......... from stinking turd colored sea...to stinking turd colored sea......but we will have a lot more choices of ethnic food at the food court at the Mall of America in Somalian Muslim MOHAMMADAN GANG RAPE ARMY MINNESOTA!!!


    Question:What new tree of life will be spawned...flesh-eating-bacteria?...oh wait...we have already been blessed with this new...malignantly lethal form of being BLESSED BY DIVERSITY!!!!

    Well yes, of course, nobody said the utopia imagined by the upper class was going to actually be “utopian,” for most involved. Indeed, for the surviving white minority outside of the upper class, it will be quite dystopian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    Issac

    Yes...that is the point I’m trying to make...It is all going to end so very badly. And now throw in a long term Mega-drought....a hellish dystopia.....


    Secession doesn’t solve any problems over the long term....the laws of physics won’t adapt to the Secessionists fantasies...Secession is just another version of an Ostrich stocking its head in a hole in the ground in the face of a mortal-fatal existential threat.

    The ecological wreckage of California will makes its way one way or another to Montanna...Idaho...Wyoming....Utah....And.....Colorado....Arkansas...and Kansas....the laws of physics will guarantee it...to paraphrase Joe Willie....Back in the 1930s when the US Congress was debating what to do about the Dust Bowl in the American West.....an ecological miasma of evil was only a mile away on its way to make its prescence known to the US Congress....


    And then, there was that other miasma of ecological evil back in the day ....a two thousand mile long black cloud of hungry rampaging locust.....

    Dorothy:”Toto....I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore.....”


    Was SEC Roll Tide!!!!! Negro Ball really worth it?

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  24. Fuck the Left. Their women are fat, nagging and annoying and always flipping me the bird anyway, me being a White guy that is. Democrat White men are groveling pussies, they cater to feminists and Blacks who are merely clawing jobs, money, free education to themselves and being hateful about it to boot. Democrat men pissing away the legacy of their own gender aren’t “men” I’m ever going to give anything other than a punch in the face to, hence, Trump. There is privilege to be won from Whites , that’s why every half-bred mud baby claims Black instead of White. They used to desperately try to “pass” for White after all. But Black is where the money and privilege are and so anyone with “one drop” of Black blood claim Black. The Left can go on their merry way, it has nothing to do with me. I don’t want to sleep with their women nor drink with their men. In the end, they’re self-immolating. They abort their children by the millions, their feral Blacks and Hispanics are killing each other by the tens of thousands. I just don’t see the problems here. These are GOOD things, a few of MY favorite things, Feminist Democrats murdering/aborting their own children, Blacks killing their own in Blue-Bloc voting districts, Left-Wing Democrats burning their own campuses and cities, the Democrat men of media raping the Feminist Democrat women and even the young children of Democrats in Hollywood. Stop trying to FIX it!

    They’re like termites. Having chewed up the landscape, like the Muslims who kill each other when they run out of Christians, the Left is now eating each other starting with Hollywood and moving on to their institutions of education and media and even their own signature organization, the Democratic National Committee.

    There’s no tragedy here, all that has occurred is not a problem, it’s all a feature. It’s an electoral ball rolling downhill, has been for twenty years, apparently. Post-Obama America has had a bellyful of Blacks and Hillary Democrat feminists and their crime, corruption and destruction and in the end, Democrats are dropping as a percentage of the population outside of seven or eight cities. The remaining Democrats throughout a rather Red USA, easy to beat locally. Me worry?

    I build things, wire things, make things work, I really haven’t time for it other than as a good-night chuckle over two fingers of Single Malt. If you stand back, take a look at the landscape, it all really is a very, very good thing. Washington has been too cozy across the aisle for 40 years, this shakeup within the Parties as well as without is good, for Washington, for the Blue cities and all our institutions. Once the Feminists are flushed and that day is coming, perhaps things DO go back to normal. In the meantime? Let them do what they do best.

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  25. @Issac
    Well yes, of course, nobody said the utopia imagined by the upper class was going to actually be "utopian," for most involved. Indeed, for the surviving white minority outside of the upper class, it will be quite dystopian.

    Issac

    Yes…that is the point I’m trying to make…It is all going to end so very badly. And now throw in a long term Mega-drought….a hellish dystopia…..

    Secession doesn’t solve any problems over the long term….the laws of physics won’t adapt to the Secessionists fantasies…Secession is just another version of an Ostrich stocking its head in a hole in the ground in the face of a mortal-fatal existential threat.

    The ecological wreckage of California will makes its way one way or another to Montanna…Idaho…Wyoming….Utah….And…..Colorado….Arkansas…and Kansas….the laws of physics will guarantee it…to paraphrase Joe Willie….Back in the 1930s when the US Congress was debating what to do about the Dust Bowl in the American West…..an ecological miasma of evil was only a mile away on its way to make its prescence known to the US Congress….

    And then, there was that other miasma of ecological evil back in the day ….a two thousand mile long black cloud of hungry rampaging locust…..

    Dorothy:”Toto….I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore…..”

    Was SEC Roll Tide!!!!! Negro Ball really worth it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bartok
    In the local newspaper in Las Vegas, I read of an idea to pay California to build de-sal plants and thereby to buy water from California.

    We Californians are reluctant to build de-sal even for our own use, so it was funny to read of the idea that we would help out Nevada in exchange for some lousy shekels.

    If it comes to tripling our water bills vs. de-sal, then Californians will overwhelmingly vote to build the plants. Normal people here are left-wing up-to-a-point but not past that point

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  26. 36 ulster says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Issac

    But the M3 Symplectic genetic chimera freak show will be LIVING AND BREEDING in....and on....a malodorous- stinking-reeking-filthy TOILET BOWL.....with curry turds floating on top-complements of The filthy Irish Catholic Cockroach Teddy Kennedy....

    And it’s no exaggeration to say this.....for post-White Toilet America will be paved over with soul-murdering suburban tracts and strip malls.....And you know what comes with this fucking monstrosity.....for it is all built on top of cesspools feeding into streams...streams feeding into rivers...rivers feeding into a giant ocean of flowing sewage underneath.......... from stinking turd colored sea...to stinking turd colored sea......but we will have a lot more choices of ethnic food at the food court at the Mall of America in Somalian Muslim MOHAMMADAN GANG RAPE ARMY MINNESOTA!!!


    Question:What new tree of life will be spawned...flesh-eating-bacteria?...oh wait...we have already been blessed with this new...malignantly lethal form of being BLESSED BY DIVERSITY!!!!

    From now on WFBM, you’re switching to decaf.

    Read More
    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    HA....HA....!!!


    Just out of curiosity...have you ever been to a STIFF LITTLE FINGERS concert....

    Isn’t decaf embalming fluid?
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  27. @36 ulster
    From now on WFBM, you're switching to decaf.

    HA….HA….!!!

    Just out of curiosity…have you ever been to a STIFF LITTLE FINGERS concert….

    Isn’t decaf embalming fluid?

    Read More
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  28. @Diversity Heretic
    I forgot to add in my first comment that Christ Church in Alexandria, Virginia is taking down commemorative plaques honoring not only Robert E. Lee but George Washington. So the "Goodwhites" and their allies are not only opposed to the "reunification" after 1865, but to the white man who, everyone agrees was indispensable to achieving independence and to founding the original United States. Today they remove and tear down out icons--tomorrow they'll be coming after us.

    All the king's horses and all the king's men (and all the civic nationalists) can't put Humpty Dumpty together again.

    I believe that Alexandria is largely populated by “carpetbaggers” from Washington,.

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  29. “it somehow emerged that you are a Trump supporter, and the other person flushed angrily, pursed her lips, perhaps said something vituperative, then turned on her heel and stormed off? I had one just the other day.”

    Yes, I have had that happen. Complete with references to the “orange Mussolini”.

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  30. bartok says:
    @Diversity Heretic
    I've been reading John for years and love his stuff, but there's no way to "restitch" the old Union. As commenter Hail said above, the demographics have changed and are changing, such that the old union can never again exist. We need to move beyond "civic nationalism," or "Americanism," and embrace white identity. Not all whites want to go that way, and those who don't are free to live with their beloved peoples of color until, quite likely, their house pets turn on them. John is right on one thing, the geography of the inevitable separation will be agonizing.

    the geography of the inevitable separation will be agonizing

    The US is already quite happily segregated by race, and race is upstream of politics. The GOP could make itself useful to its White voting base by better defending the de facto segregation. But even if the GOP falls to a permanent minority, as in California, segregation will continue to thrive, as in California.

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  31. bartok says:
    @War for Blair Mountain
    Issac

    Yes...that is the point I’m trying to make...It is all going to end so very badly. And now throw in a long term Mega-drought....a hellish dystopia.....


    Secession doesn’t solve any problems over the long term....the laws of physics won’t adapt to the Secessionists fantasies...Secession is just another version of an Ostrich stocking its head in a hole in the ground in the face of a mortal-fatal existential threat.

    The ecological wreckage of California will makes its way one way or another to Montanna...Idaho...Wyoming....Utah....And.....Colorado....Arkansas...and Kansas....the laws of physics will guarantee it...to paraphrase Joe Willie....Back in the 1930s when the US Congress was debating what to do about the Dust Bowl in the American West.....an ecological miasma of evil was only a mile away on its way to make its prescence known to the US Congress....


    And then, there was that other miasma of ecological evil back in the day ....a two thousand mile long black cloud of hungry rampaging locust.....

    Dorothy:”Toto....I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore.....”


    Was SEC Roll Tide!!!!! Negro Ball really worth it?

    In the local newspaper in Las Vegas, I read of an idea to pay California to build de-sal plants and thereby to buy water from California.

    We Californians are reluctant to build de-sal even for our own use, so it was funny to read of the idea that we would help out Nevada in exchange for some lousy shekels.

    If it comes to tripling our water bills vs. de-sal, then Californians will overwhelmingly vote to build the plants. Normal people here are left-wing up-to-a-point but not past that point

    Read More
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  32. TheJester says:

    I have always believed that America was more of an “idea” than a place. I’ve traveled the world and seen many of its shitholes. I was convinced that the “American idea” (liberty, rule of law, a Constitutional system) could have cured many of their ills … like community action to fix the open sewer that runs down the middle of the village.

    However, of late I now know that I only got part of that right. America is an “idea”, but it is the “European white man’s idea”. Alien cultures and religions will never understand the idea. They will never get it right.

    Now, in our own country, the “American idea” is in retreat as the alien cultures and religions that created the shitholes in the Third World are flash mobbing our borders. Their shitholes are predictably metastasizing and emerging within our communities throughout the country. For example, the Salvadorian gang, M13, used to be a Salvadorian problem. Now, M13 is active and terrorizing over a thousand US communities.

    The “American idea” isn’t being exported. It’s now fighting for survival within our own borders.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "I have always believed that America was more of an “idea” than a place."

    America is both an idea and a place, one feeding off the other.

    "I’ve traveled the world and seen many of its shitholes."

    What places in particular are you referring to?

    "I was convinced that the “American idea” (liberty, rule of law, a Constitutional system) could have cured many of their ills … like community action to fix the open sewer that runs down the middle of the village."

    You seem not to remember that during the Invade The World, Invite The World phase known as imperialism, Europeans, while undeniably bringing in benefits to these "shitholes", put in place these benefits for themselves and not the natives there. For example, transportation systems in Africa was generally built to procure raw materials. In addition, governmental systems put into place restrictions or bans on native involvement in colonial decisions--the white man, of course, knew best. As a result of the instability borne out of Europeans granting independence to their African and Asian colonies post-World War II, some of these problems that should have been fixed were in reality not adequately addressed by the European ruling class. Basically, it was a guest in one's house who raided the refrigerator to make a sammach, made a mess in the kitchen, partly cleaned it up, left, and then blamed the homeowner how nasty is the kitchen.

    "However, of late I now know that I only got part of that right. America is an “idea”, but it is the “European white man’s idea”."

    No, it was an idea developed by people who happened to be European. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are universal concepts.

    "Alien cultures and religions will never understand the idea. They will never get it right."

    You do realize that nativists in the 1840's and 1850's felt the same way about the Irish and Germans, right? They were told they had to go back.

    Fast forward to the 1890's. The Irish and Germans, who overcame ethnic and religious discrimination, joined in with nativist sentiment about the "dirty" Italians, Slavs, and Poles. They were told they had to go back.

    And the cycle, of course, has continued to present day. Speaking of Day, Vox has written that only those ancestors of Americans who are able to directly trace their lineage to British settlers are the "true Americans". So, unless you fit that description, well, you know the drill. Start packing.

    'M13 is active and terrorizing over a thousand US communities."

    Sources?
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  33. Read More
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  34. Just like it’s difficult to serve two masters, it’s difficult to lead two peoples.

    Why are so many white working class and underclass morally confused and falling apart? There is no leadership: politically, socially, culturally, historically, morally, spiritually.

    In the past, white leaders led white masses. White body was led by the white mind. And the white mind had a sense of right and wrong and prodded the white body to act accordingly… like Moses leading the Hebrews.
    But now, the white body has no leadership because the white mind no longer cares about the white body. Jewish Globalists wanted it this way. They educated and inculcated white elites with ‘white guilt’ and made them feel morally and intellectually superior for snubbing the Archie Bunkers of the world. Also, the Jewish Globalists vulgarized the white masses with junk culture and Jerry Springerism so that they would to become too stupid to heed to good sound advice.

    Today, white leaders are expected to represent and lead ALL peoples. But the interests of blacks, browns, yellows, Hindus, Muslims, and etc are so different from the needs of white folks. When white leaders are supposed to represent Diversity than whiteness — esp when whites must bear the brunt of ‘white guilt’ — , white masses get no leadership. Also, as ‘white privilege’ is deemed evil, white elites(who have privilege) feel a need to justify their tainted privilege by cucking out to non-whites and Jews who, despite their great privilege, hold the holocaust card of eternal holy victimhood.

    A man who tries to serve two masters will end up confused and crazy.
    A man who tries to lead two, three, or more peoples will the task impossible.
    Even an inspired figure like Gandhi found it impossible to represent and lead both Muslims and Hindus, thus being helpless to watch the partitioning of India into a Hindu majority nation and Pakistan as the Muslim nation. (Notice Netanyahu doesn’t pretend to represent Palestinians along with Jews. He is a Jewish leader of Jews thru and thru.)
    In time, the would-be leader of many peoples just becomes jaded and cynical. His yammering about Diversity just turns into self-serving machination of careerism. As he finds it impossible to lead many peoples, he prefers to just serve himself and the one master: The Zionist-Globalist elites. Indeed, even as the white elites are confused and lost in their lame effort to lead all peoples, they are concentrated and focused on serving ONE uber-master, the Glob. It’s easier to serve one master than lead many peoples. No wonder then that so many politicians just opt to serve the Jewish globalist uber-masters.

    Ideally, white elites need to stop serving the Glob and need to serve the white masses. Let non-whites rely on their own non-white leaderships.

    Anyway, the white race needs to think like blacks with NAACP and Jews with AIPAC. Even when blacks and Jews don’t control political office, they are represented by organizations that are meant to explicitly represent them and serve their interests. Hispanics have La Raza, lately renamed to something else.

    Whites need something similar. Of course, this pro-white organization that ALWAYS represents whites regardless of winds of political fortune must be something sane and responsible. Unfortunately, explicit White Representation has been associated with KKK and the like.

    A National Humanist White Organization is most necessary. One that is moral and responsible.

    Because most whites only rely on politics, they feel represented or unrepresented depending on who wins elections. But if whites have a solid social or cultural organization organization to lead and represent them 24/7, they will be empowered even when they lose elections. It’s like Jews have ADL and AIPAC working on their behalf regardless of who is president, senator, or governor.

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  35. TG says:

    Divide and conquer.

    A united nation can stand against the corrupt oligarchs. But a mass of disconnected people, who feel that they have no common cause? They are easy meat. The rich find nationalism to be an obstacle to migration-fueled cheap labor, to the quick profits of outsourcing core industries to low wage nations (that are or may soon be our enemies!), and to squandering blood and treasure on overseas adventures of no benefit to this nation.

    Therefore nationalism is evil and must be wiped out. So that the entire world can be one global cesspit of poverty and racial and ethnic battles and the super-rich can sail above it all in kilometer-high palaces. Such is the dream.

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  36. Corvinus says:
    @TheJester
    I have always believed that America was more of an "idea" than a place. I've traveled the world and seen many of its shitholes. I was convinced that the "American idea" (liberty, rule of law, a Constitutional system) could have cured many of their ills ... like community action to fix the open sewer that runs down the middle of the village.

    However, of late I now know that I only got part of that right. America is an "idea", but it is the "European white man's idea". Alien cultures and religions will never understand the idea. They will never get it right.

    Now, in our own country, the "American idea" is in retreat as the alien cultures and religions that created the shitholes in the Third World are flash mobbing our borders. Their shitholes are predictably metastasizing and emerging within our communities throughout the country. For example, the Salvadorian gang, M13, used to be a Salvadorian problem. Now, M13 is active and terrorizing over a thousand US communities.

    The "American idea" isn't being exported. It's now fighting for survival within our own borders.

    “I have always believed that America was more of an “idea” than a place.”

    America is both an idea and a place, one feeding off the other.

    “I’ve traveled the world and seen many of its shitholes.”

    What places in particular are you referring to?

    “I was convinced that the “American idea” (liberty, rule of law, a Constitutional system) could have cured many of their ills … like community action to fix the open sewer that runs down the middle of the village.”

    You seem not to remember that during the Invade The World, Invite The World phase known as imperialism, Europeans, while undeniably bringing in benefits to these “shitholes”, put in place these benefits for themselves and not the natives there. For example, transportation systems in Africa was generally built to procure raw materials. In addition, governmental systems put into place restrictions or bans on native involvement in colonial decisions–the white man, of course, knew best. As a result of the instability borne out of Europeans granting independence to their African and Asian colonies post-World War II, some of these problems that should have been fixed were in reality not adequately addressed by the European ruling class. Basically, it was a guest in one’s house who raided the refrigerator to make a sammach, made a mess in the kitchen, partly cleaned it up, left, and then blamed the homeowner how nasty is the kitchen.

    “However, of late I now know that I only got part of that right. America is an “idea”, but it is the “European white man’s idea”.”

    No, it was an idea developed by people who happened to be European. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are universal concepts.

    “Alien cultures and religions will never understand the idea. They will never get it right.”

    You do realize that nativists in the 1840′s and 1850′s felt the same way about the Irish and Germans, right? They were told they had to go back.

    Fast forward to the 1890′s. The Irish and Germans, who overcame ethnic and religious discrimination, joined in with nativist sentiment about the “dirty” Italians, Slavs, and Poles. They were told they had to go back.

    And the cycle, of course, has continued to present day. Speaking of Day, Vox has written that only those ancestors of Americans who are able to directly trace their lineage to British settlers are the “true Americans”. So, unless you fit that description, well, you know the drill. Start packing.

    ‘M13 is active and terrorizing over a thousand US communities.”

    Sources?

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  37. Corvinus says:
    @Alden
    Historians agree that in 1500 there were about one million Indians living in what is now the Continental United States.There are now about three million full Indians and millions more partial Indians living in the United States.

    Since the Europeans settled the United States, the Indian population has increased.

    That is not genocide. Don't believe everything you read.

    “Historians agree that in 1500 there were about one million Indians living in what is now the Continental United States.There are now about three million full Indians and millions more partial Indians living in the United States.”

    Who are these historians? I’m sure you are able to provide references, right? Because the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish. But I’m all ears if you are able to offer some sources.

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  38. Truth says:
    @Alden
    Historians agree that in 1500 there were about one million Indians living in what is now the Continental United States.There are now about three million full Indians and millions more partial Indians living in the United States.

    Since the Europeans settled the United States, the Indian population has increased.

    That is not genocide. Don't believe everything you read.

    I would have hated to be the census taker that had to ride a horse from Philly to Bismarck and count all the Injuns inbetween.

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  39. dearieme says:

    “the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish.” I’ll bet they have. Given that some of the Indians were agriculturalists I’d guess that 1 million is low. But it’s only a guess.

    Still, it’s an interesting line of argument. If some conqueror were to invade the US and reduce what we might call the native US whites to a despondent, poverty-stricken, uneducated, alcoholic, drug-ridden residue penned on reservations, that would be OK as long as their number had increased a bit. That’s what the commenter is arguing, isn’t it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ron Unz

    “the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish.” I’ll bet they have. Given that some of the Indians were agriculturalists I’d guess that 1 million is low. But it’s only a guess.
     
    Actually, it's certainly well known that the Amerind populations of the Aztec and Incan Empires were absolutely enormous, certainly in the many, many millions. For example, I think their capital cities had far, far larger populations than Madrid or just about any other European city of the era. At least, I think that's what the Spanish Conquistadors claimed and modern archaeology has backed it up.

    However, under the traditional interpretation, the North American Amerinds had no cities at all, were quite primitive and often at the hunter-gatherer stage of development, though with some rudimentary agriculture. As I recall, Franz Boas---hardly a fanatic WN activist---and his followers focused pretty heavily on analyzing their civilization and estimated their original numbers as being something like 1M-2M or so across all of the Continental US, which seems pretty plausible to me.

    Some modern scholars claim a much higher number, but given the total absence of any cities or developed civilization, I'm rather skeptical.

    A great deal of the confusion surrounding the alleged "New World Holocaust" involved confusing or conflating the population of the North American Amerinds with their Southern cousins.
    , @Art Deco
    If some conqueror were to invade the US and reduce what we might call the native US whites to a despondent, poverty-stricken, uneducated, alcoholic, drug-ridden residue penned on reservations, that would be OK as long as their number had increased a bit. That’s what the commenter is arguing, isn’t it?

    The employment-to-population ratio for the aboriginal population in the United States is currently about 0.54, about 8.5% lower than is the case for the white population therein but fairly similar to an array of East European countries. Per capita income for aboriginals is about 37% below the national mean, which puts them about 10% below the British mean or higher than the typical income levels of Ulster, Wales, the north of England and the Midlands. Evidently most of the UK is populated with a "despondent, poverty-stricken, uneducated, alcoholic, drug-ridden residue ".
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  40. Ron Unz says:
    @dearieme
    "the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish." I'll bet they have. Given that some of the Indians were agriculturalists I'd guess that 1 million is low. But it's only a guess.

    Still, it's an interesting line of argument. If some conqueror were to invade the US and reduce what we might call the native US whites to a despondent, poverty-stricken, uneducated, alcoholic, drug-ridden residue penned on reservations, that would be OK as long as their number had increased a bit. That's what the commenter is arguing, isn't it?

    “the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish.” I’ll bet they have. Given that some of the Indians were agriculturalists I’d guess that 1 million is low. But it’s only a guess.

    Actually, it’s certainly well known that the Amerind populations of the Aztec and Incan Empires were absolutely enormous, certainly in the many, many millions. For example, I think their capital cities had far, far larger populations than Madrid or just about any other European city of the era. At least, I think that’s what the Spanish Conquistadors claimed and modern archaeology has backed it up.

    However, under the traditional interpretation, the North American Amerinds had no cities at all, were quite primitive and often at the hunter-gatherer stage of development, though with some rudimentary agriculture. As I recall, Franz Boas—hardly a fanatic WN activist—and his followers focused pretty heavily on analyzing their civilization and estimated their original numbers as being something like 1M-2M or so across all of the Continental US, which seems pretty plausible to me.

    Some modern scholars claim a much higher number, but given the total absence of any cities or developed civilization, I’m rather skeptical.

    A great deal of the confusion surrounding the alleged “New World Holocaust” involved confusing or conflating the population of the North American Amerinds with their Southern cousins.

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    History if a group of lies, agreed upon.
    -Napoleon Bonaparte
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  41. Art Deco says:
    @dearieme
    "the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish." I'll bet they have. Given that some of the Indians were agriculturalists I'd guess that 1 million is low. But it's only a guess.

    Still, it's an interesting line of argument. If some conqueror were to invade the US and reduce what we might call the native US whites to a despondent, poverty-stricken, uneducated, alcoholic, drug-ridden residue penned on reservations, that would be OK as long as their number had increased a bit. That's what the commenter is arguing, isn't it?

    If some conqueror were to invade the US and reduce what we might call the native US whites to a despondent, poverty-stricken, uneducated, alcoholic, drug-ridden residue penned on reservations, that would be OK as long as their number had increased a bit. That’s what the commenter is arguing, isn’t it?

    The employment-to-population ratio for the aboriginal population in the United States is currently about 0.54, about 8.5% lower than is the case for the white population therein but fairly similar to an array of East European countries. Per capita income for aboriginals is about 37% below the national mean, which puts them about 10% below the British mean or higher than the typical income levels of Ulster, Wales, the north of England and the Midlands. Evidently most of the UK is populated with a “despondent, poverty-stricken, uneducated, alcoholic, drug-ridden residue “.

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  42. Truth says:
    @Ron Unz

    “the population figures for indigenous peoples in the Americas before the 1492 voyage of Christopher Columbus have proven difficult to establish.” I’ll bet they have. Given that some of the Indians were agriculturalists I’d guess that 1 million is low. But it’s only a guess.
     
    Actually, it's certainly well known that the Amerind populations of the Aztec and Incan Empires were absolutely enormous, certainly in the many, many millions. For example, I think their capital cities had far, far larger populations than Madrid or just about any other European city of the era. At least, I think that's what the Spanish Conquistadors claimed and modern archaeology has backed it up.

    However, under the traditional interpretation, the North American Amerinds had no cities at all, were quite primitive and often at the hunter-gatherer stage of development, though with some rudimentary agriculture. As I recall, Franz Boas---hardly a fanatic WN activist---and his followers focused pretty heavily on analyzing their civilization and estimated their original numbers as being something like 1M-2M or so across all of the Continental US, which seems pretty plausible to me.

    Some modern scholars claim a much higher number, but given the total absence of any cities or developed civilization, I'm rather skeptical.

    A great deal of the confusion surrounding the alleged "New World Holocaust" involved confusing or conflating the population of the North American Amerinds with their Southern cousins.

    History if a group of lies, agreed upon.
    -Napoleon Bonaparte

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  43. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Two nations fought the Civil War, and later formed together a single nation. If the US today only consisted of the descendants of those two nations (perhaps having relocated the third nation to its ancestral homelands). The problem is, other nations have been imported since then with no love of either of the two nations that had reconciled with each other, and right now are trying to destroy the nation that was born from their struggle.

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Limbaugh and company certainly entertain. But a steady diet of ideological comfort food is no substitute for hearty intellectual fare.
Once as a colonial project, now as a moral playground, the ancient continent remains the object of Great Power maneuvering