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SEPTEMBER DIARY: My Return to China—After 18 Years
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[I spent three weeks, September 9th to 29th, in China with my wife Rosie (who was born and raised in China, of Chinese ancestry). This month’s diary consists of random observations I made during the trip.

This was my first visit to mainland China since 2001, eighteen years ago. By coincidence, that 2001 visit was my first since 1983, also a span of eighteen years.

Although I intended to enjoy myself in the proper vacation spirit, and did so, this jaunt was really for Rosie. She wanted to visit her relatives over there, and her old classmates from school and college. They are scattered across China, so we boxed the compass on this trip: north (Peking, Siping), east (Suzhou, Hangzhou, Shaoxing), west (Chongqing), and south (Zhuhai).

Where I have used a Chinese word, I have given it a link to Google Translate so you can hear the pronunciation. Ignore Google’s English translations, which are often wrong. I’ve used Chinese place-names except where there is a well-established (according to me) English name for a Chinese place: Peking, Canton.]

Monday, September 9th: Leaving New York.

Rating Air China

We fly Air China from New York to Peking, a single 13½-hour flight.

There is no way an economy-class flight that long can be enjoyable, but Air China don’t do anything to make it worse. The food is average airline food. The cabin staff are friendly and efficient. Also young and skinny; and in the case of the males, noticably tall—in the top decile for Chinese men, I think.

I brought a nice fat book to read: Robert Merry’s account of the Polk presidency. Got sixty pages in but dozed off.

Tuesday, September 10th: Arrive in Peking.

One less minor travel chore

At half past six in the Peking evening, actually. On Eastern Daylight Time, New York is twelve hours behind Peking, so no need to adjust watch. Cool … except that we are looking at maximum jet lag.

Laoyi and Yifu

Rosie’s aunt and uncle are our hosts in Peking, as in 2001. Uncle has checked us into a good upmarket hotel less than two miles south of Tiananmen Square. He and aunt live in a small apartment a few blocks away.

Neither of them speaks any English, so my Chinese is going to get a stress test. The first thing is forms of address, which I’d forgotten and had to be reminded about.

Eskimos have twenty words for snow; the Chinese have eight each for “uncle” (father’s older brother, father’s younger brother, father’s older sister’s husband, father’s younger sister’s husband, mother’s older brother, mother’s younger brother, mother’s older sister’s husband, mother’s younger sister’s husband) and “aunt” (you get the idea). That’s just the formal nouns; there are some colloquial variants you have to be told.

We settle on me addressing this aunt as laoyi and uncle as yifu.

Wednesday, September 11th: Peking, then Peking to Siping.

Impressions of Peking

Peking’s a big modern city, spacious and clean. I’ve read all the scare stories about air pollution, but there’s nothing I can notice and the sky is clear blue.

If you walk north half an hour from our hotel you hit Chang-an Avenue, the main east-west drag through central Peking. If you then hang a right and walk east a few hundred yards you’re opposite the entrance to Zhongnanhai, the big park-compound where China’s senior leaders live. Keep walking east and the avenue goes right across the front of Tiananmen, the “Gate of Heavenly Peace,” with Tiananmen Square at your right.

We decide to take this walk. When we get to Chang-an and hang the right onto the avenue, however, we come to a security checkpoint. October 1st is National Day, and it’s a big one this year: the 70th anniversary of the People’s Republic. There are to be huge parades and displays, and this whole central area is being secured in preparation.

The checkpoint guard wants to see our passports. We didn’t bring them; but Rosie turns on the charm and he lets us through. We walk east along Chang-an and take pictures outside the Zhongnanhai entrance gate. At this point we decide we’re tired of walking. We have to catch a train mid-afternoon, too. So we pass on Tiananmen and head back to the hotel.

Walking up and then back down Nanxinhua Street on this outing I’m pleased to see that a lot of the old hutongs—narrow alleys characteristic of the old city—have been landmarked and preserved.

The Installed Base problem

Mid-afternoon we go to the railroad station for a six-hour ride up to Siping in northeast China. It’s 470 miles as the crow flies, so six hours is not bad. This is in fact a gaotie, a high-speed train, that can reach, depending on the line, over 200 mph … but there are a lot of stops.

The gaotie is a nice ride. To get on it, though, you have to go through Transportation Security Theater, like at an American airport but less of a trial: you don’t have to take shoes or belt off and the security people, while brisk and unsmiling, at least don’t snarl or shout.

The railroad station itself is agreeable, too—clean and efficient. Likewise the Peking subways, which put New York’s to shame. Why can’t America have stuff this nice?

Peking’s not having a big resentful and antisocial underclass helps a lot, of course. The fundamental problem, however, is the Installed Base. New York city’s subway system is 115 years old. It’s dirty, unreliable, and badly maintained, but everybody’s used to it. New Yorkers put up with it from habit.

There’s a unionized workforce and an entrenched management/patronage bureaucracy—a lot of iron rice-bowls that can’t be broken. The Installed Base.

ORDER IT NOW

For thin consolation, we can reflect that a hundred years from now all these spiffy gleaming Chinese transit systems will be Installed Base. They will be as crappy, ill-maintained, and ill-managed as today’s New York subway or La Guardia airport. Probably a lot worse, in fact, given what we know about Chinese quality control.

Everything looks great when it’s new, duh.

Thursday, September 12th: Siping.

Celebrity!

Siping is a town in northeast China. I lived and worked there for the academic year 1982-3, lecturing in English at what was then Siping Normal (i.e. teacher-training) College. Rosie (pictured right)was one of my students. Another one—a classmate of Rosie’s, now a lecturer himself—has invited us up there to look at the place 36 years on from when we knew it.

This ex-student’s name is Geoffrey, as in Chaucer. Having no confidence in my ability to hold dozens of Chinese names in my head, when teaching at Siping I awarded all my students English names, from English literature.

Geoffrey and another lecturer meet us at the station and drive us to the college, where we are to be put up for the night at college expense. The other guy has a camera—a real one, not just a smartphone camera—and is diligently recording the whole thing. We soon grasp that I am in fact something of a celebrity, almost a historical figure hereabouts.

Siping Normal College, which had around a thousand students back in 1983, is now Jilin Normal University with 30,000. I was its first-ever foreign lecturer. When I arrived in 1982 I was in fact the only foreigner for seventy miles around, and a major attraction to the citizens of Siping, who would stop and stare as I walked past.

If I myself stopped walking and just stood still a while, a big crowd would gather to look at me. A couple of times they blocked traffic and police were running round blowing whistles to clear the road. (Another foreign teacher joined the staff in Spring of 1983.)

I left the college in 1983 under somewhat of a cloud, after considerable drama. Apparently nobody minds this 36 years on. If anything, it seems only to enhance my celebrity appeal.

Now the president of the university and two of his deputies honor us with a meeting and present us with gifts. I make a short speech in my awful Chinese. They treat us to an excellent Chinese lunch.

Geoffrey told us beforehand that much of the university’s rapid expansion has been accomplished just the past few years by this president, whose name is Yang Jinghai. Over lunch we ask President Yang how he raised the necessary funds. “By working my contacts nonstop,” he replied with disarming frankness. So I guess being a college president is much the same anywhere.

[Added later. Talking with Geoffrey and his colleagues, I came away much impressed with President Yang. He is handsome and dapper, quietly courteous, well into his fifties but looks twenty years younger. Everyone spoke well of him. “He gets things done and he treats people fairly,” we were told—the defining characteristics of a good boss, in China or any other country, in the 21st or any other century, in college administration or any other kind of management.]

After lunch we take a tour of the university, trying without much success to locate what we are seeing in our mental memory-maps of the place 36 years ago. My old office is still there at least, now occupied by a Japanese lady instructor. So is the room they fixed up for me in a student dorm building, now used for storage.

The years, the memories, the drama … It’s all a bit much. When Geoffrey suggests leaving the college to go check out the town, I eagerly agree.

A town transformed

They took a few weeks to fix up that room in the student dorm for me back in 1982. Until it was ready, I lived in the town’s one hotel, on Hospitality Street next to the police station. Hotel to college was two miles; they brought me back and forth by car.

(The police station was not without interest. Posted outside on a notice-board were brief reports of recent executions. A pre-War British jurist, asked to name the typical British crime, replied: “Kicking your wife to death.” Based on those reports posted at Siping police station, the typical Chinese crime in 1982 was coming home drunk and hacking your wife to death with a kitchen cleaver for not having produced a male child.)

I occupied my non-working hours just walking around the town, getting a feel for the place and practicing my Chinese on the hapless townsfolk. I soon new Siping well enough to work up a decent map. I have printed off a copy of the map and brought it with me, to compare the town I knew in 1982-3 with the one I find in 2019.

As with the college, the transformation is dramatic. Old Siping, east of the railroad tracks, was a chancrous slum of one-story workers’ hovels back then; now that’s all gone, replaced by decent-looking high-rise apartment blocks. The railroad station is state-of-the-art, totally unrecognizable.

The town itself has spread over what back then were open fields. The hotel is still in place, but the police station next to it has been moved elsewhere.

South Lake Park is also still there, much improved, with carefully-tended flower-beds, neat lawns, and plenty of seating. This Thursday afternoon it’s full of old people. So is what used to be Children’s Park, across from the hotel—it’s now named something else.

The oldsters are having fun: one group ballroom dancing, another chorus singing, games of cards and Chinese chess going on, each surrounded by spectators. Everyone seems to be enjoying themselves. Chinese people really know how to retire.

The dirty, poor, squalid Siping of 36 years ago has gone, and it’s hard to feel nostalgia for it. I could never love the Chinese Communist Party—too many cruelties, too many lies—but at least they have let this happen.

The townsfolk do not stop and stare as I go by. I do not cause any traffic jams. A foreigner is no longer a curiosity. Siping has been globalized.

Demography bites
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That what I remember as Children’s Park is now full of geezers is a reminder that China is now well and truly through the Demographic Transition to low mortality and low fertility, as described by demographer Paul Morland in his book The Human Tide, which I was reading before we left. From Chapter 8:

China is ageing quickly, as would be expected from its falling fertility rates and lengthening life expectancy. The median Chinese citizen remained in his/her twenties throughout the first forty years or so of the People’s Republic, but in the first fifteen years of the twenty-first century the median age has risen by seven years. This is nearly three times the speed of ageing experienced in the UK and the US, and the trend will continue … Those aged over sixty as a share of the population will pass the share in the United States in around 2030.

The U.N. gives China’s total fertility rate (TFR) as 1.5, but Morland thinks 1.2 is likelier. China, like most other developed countries, is heading over the demographic cliff.

The world’s top ten TFRs: Niger (6.35), Angola (6.09), Burundi (5.93), Chad (5.90), Mali (5.90), Somalia (5.70), Uganda (5.62), Zambia (5.58), Malawi (5.43), South Sudan (5.34).

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: It’s not economics that’s the dismal science, it’s demography.

Low-speed rail travel

Back to Peking on the night sleeper. This is not a gaotie but a locomotive of the older type. The toilet bowl of our carriage seems not to have been cleaned since Liberation. Not everything in China has been modernized.

The male of our companion couple (sleeper compartments have four beds) is a heroic snorer.

Friday, September 13th: Peking.

Doing the sights

Friday we spend sightseeing with Uncle and Aunt. Uncle wanted to check out the preparations in Tiananmen Square for the coming guoqing, the celebration of National Day. We can’t get close though, and can’t see much. It doesn’t help that this is a public holiday, the Mid-Autumn Festival, the streets more crowded than usual.

We head off to the nearby National Centre for the Performing Arts, a sort of Chinese Lincoln Center but with the British spelling. Curious architecture; impressive programs featuring international stars of music, opera, dance; not crowded.

QR-Code Nation

A QR code is one of those squares you see sometimes at points of sale, packed with teenier black and white squares in random-looking patterns.

I have never used a QR code. My only engagement with these beasties came when, a few months ago, Coinbase started asking for one when I tried to log in to my Bitcoin account. Clueless, I called in my tech-savvy son, who did something that fixed it.

In China QR codes are everywhere, and have pretty much taken over from cash. You pay the taxi with a QR code. (Scanned from your smartphone, of course. You don’t have a smartphone? Say WHAT?) You buy a cup of coffee with a QR code. To raise the entry barrier to some secure compound, you lean out of your car window and show your QR code to a security camera.

The joke we heard was that beggars in China don’t bother asking for cash. They just get a T-shirt printed up with a QR code on it and let you scan. I’m not sure it’s a joke.

From a libertarian point of view, this is a horrible development. Cash may be grubby and primitive, but it’s anonymous. When every exchange is by QR code, your every tiny transaction ends up recorded for ever on a humongous database somewhere. With modern data-mining techniques, your entire life is open for inspection by the owners of the databases … which in China of course means the ChiCom secret police.

Shall we of the West trade in our ancient liberties for mere consumer convenience? My guess is, we shall, but I hate the thought.

Transport ageism

We’ve been noticing that when we take a bus, it seems to be full of geezers; but the subways are all young people. Uncle explains.

We retirees travel for free on the buses, but we have to pay for subway tickets. So of course we take the bus. The kids take the subway.

In the States there’d be an -ism there somewhere, with protest marches, support groups, and tear-jerky victim stories. In Peking no-one seems much bothered.

Saturday, September 14th: Peking.

Breakfast treats

One of my subversive pleasures in China is spotting really bad Chinglish in translated signs and notices.

At breakfast this morning I netted my first butterfly this trip. The hotel’s breakfast buffet includes a table with various kinds of rolls and buns, each with a helpful label in Chinese and Chinglish identifying the ingredients. One bears the Chinese name with, under it, the helpful legend Intestinal bag.

Fair makes your mouth water, doesn’t it?

(I’m not sure this counts as true Chinglish: The Chinese changzai bao really does mean “intestinal bag.”)

The Summer Palace

More sightseeing with uncle and aunt, today to the ruins of the Old Summer Palace, in a big park northeast of the main city. This was a preserve of the imperial family, looted and burned by British and French troops during the Second Opium War (1860).

Rosie and I engage in our customary banter at the ruins.

She: “See what you barbarians did to our beautiful palace!”

Me: “As Lord Elgin said: ‘To punish the court while sparing the common people.’ A Chinese general would have burned Peking and massacred the population.”

I then started reciting “The Private of the Buffs,” but Rosie just rolled eyes and walked away. No harm, no foul: after 33 years of marriage you’ve sorted out all this stuff long since.

Sunday, September 15th: Peking.

At the White Stupa

Still more sightseeing, today to Beihai Park just north of the Forbidden City. This is the park with the huge white stupa on an island in a lake.

The park is officially closed to the public as part of the lockdown leading up to National Day, but Uncle has found a work-around somehow, as you generally can in China (and as several hundred other people apparently also have).

Climbing up to the base of the stupa and reading the historical plaque there, I learn that the thing was badly damaged by the dreadful 1976 Tangshan earthquake. I didn’t know that. Ten percent of Peking’s buildings were damaged, says Wikipedia, and fifty people died. Given that Peking is ninety miles from Tangshan—which was utterly wiped out with hundreds of thousands dead—that was some heck of an earthquake.

(It was also, ahem, a key plot point in Fire from the Sun, Chapter 19.)

Bilingual China
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Even outside historical sites and breakfast buffets, Peking is a bilingual city. Every PA system, in the subway for example, addresses you first in Chinese, then in English. Most public signs are in both languages. I don’t know whether phone services ask you to press two for Chinese, never having had occasion to call one that might, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

You’d think that hearing all that English would acquaint Peking people with the language, but it’s rare to meet anyone with decent English—much rarer than in Moscow, where there is generally a fluent English-speaker within earshot.

Perhaps our languages are just too different. Linguists point out that when Europeans first needed words for particularly Chinese things, they tended to reach to other languages, not to Chinese, as if the sounds of the one language just don’t “stick” in the mind for speakers of the other.

So the “paddy” in “paddy field” is from Malay; “rickshaw” from Japanese (which is phonetically quite different from Chinese); “Mandarin,” the very name of the language, is from Hindi. So is “coolie,” though it sounds like Chinese kuli, “hard labor.”

It seems at any rate that on the cosmopolitan/communitarian issue the Chinese are aiming for a point of balance more sensible than ours: to globalize somewhat by accommodating foreigners and their main language, while maintaining secure borders, traditional folk arts, and ethnic stability in their own homeland.

A night at the Peking opera

Traditional folk arts, yes. Our hotel puts on a Peking opera show at weekends. To close out the Peking segment of our trip, I thought we should go see the Sunday performance as a tribute to the city’s very own art form.

Not everybody is so charitable. Travel writer Jan Morris, at the end of one of her pieces about China, exulted that she had gotten through the entire assigment without having to sit through any Chinese opera. I actually like the stuff in moderate doses, and wish I knew more about it.

Tonight’s two selections are “Beat Jiao Zan,” in which a clever young woman out-fights a seasoned general, and “Farewell My Concubine,” inspiration for an award-winning 1993 movie.

The first was mainly acrobatic, not very musical; the second would not have disgraced Puccini for musical-dramatic effect, if he had been Chinese. (Perhaps he was, in a previous life. He actually used some themes from Chinese folk music in Turandot.)

I think we have paid full and proper respect to the nation’s capital. Tomorrow to Suzhou.

Monday, September 16th: Peking to Suzhou.

Where are the roads?

Suzhou is a big city (pop. five million) 600 miles south of Peking on the eastern bulge of China, fifty miles west of Shanghai. We go there from Peking by gaotie, five hours and change.

The interest of the place for us is that Rosie’s nephew Chiqian lives there. He is the only child of Rosie’s only sibling—her brother, who died of liver disease in 2007. Since Rosie’s parents are also dead, Chiqian is her closest living relative not older than she. A smart lad, aged thirty, still single, Chiqian trained as an architect and now works doing interior design for construction companies.

Idly gazing out of the train window, I am struck by how few roads there are in the countryside we pass though. This is the flat agricultural land of east China, populated and farmed up at the Malthusian limit for millennia. China has been busy with massive road-building projects for thirty years. Yet as we zip through the terrain at 180 mph, whole minutes pass between us crossing one road and the next. To an American eye, it’s odd.

Staying at Chiang Kai-shek’s villa

We are starting to get the notion that some nationwide directive went out that the Derbs should be spoiled rotten by everyone on this visit. Uncle and Aunt wouldn’t let us pay for anything—we almost got into fist-fights over it.

Chiqian certainly got the directive. He has arranged for—and paid for—us to stay two nights at a special and very pricey hotel, the Garden. What’s special about it is, it was once a private estate belonging to Chiang Kai-shek. (Chiang was born about a hundred miles away in the next province.)

As well as the Chiangs, many later notables have stayed at the Garden, most notably Mao Tse-tung’s hand-picked successor (until he tried to stage a coup) Lin Biao, who loved the place. They actually keep Lin’s car in a garage here: a great behemoth of a thing, Red Flag marque, license plate E 11097, badly in need of some detailing.

Garden Hotel is a lovely place. In the lobby where we check in there is a little stage with, sitting on a stool and dressed in traditional costume, a very pretty young girl playing Chinese music on a pipa (Chinese lute). Oh, China.

Tuesday, September 17th: Peking to Suzhou.

Sightsmelling in Suzhou

Suzhou is famously beautiful. It is yoked with neighbor city Hangzhou in a famous old couplet: “Above there is the Hall of Heaven, below there are Suzhou and Hangzhou.” (It rhymes in Chinese.)

So there are a lot of tourists, including laowais, i.e. non-Chinese. We actually see a whole flock of laowais at the Netmaster’s Garden.

“Flock”? I wonder aloud whether there should be a collective noun for laowais, like “school” for fish or “gaggle” for geese.

Rosie, who has just recently placed second in a marital tiff of the minor sort, suggests “a stink of laowais.”

I let it go, satisfying myself with a recollection of one of my favorite China stories, one I have told before.

Tuesday, September 17th: Peking to Suzhou.

A dog’s life in China

China’s dogs make an interesting study. There are apparently no leash laws here. Dogs just wander about freely. Given the conditions of Chinese traffic (the old Turkish quip comes to mind: “In other countries people die by accident: in Turkey we live by accident”) you’d expect Chinese roads to be lined with canine corpses. Yet in fact you never see a dead dog.

The dogs you do see are sauntering around confidently among the cars and motor-scooters. Twice I have seen dogs ambling across the road on pedestrian crossings, the traffic pausing or swerving to let them go.

My best guess here is that when motor traffic came up in a serious way some swift Natural Selection kicked in. Less traffic-capable dog lineages were swept out of the gene pool. I am, though, open to other explanations.

Wednesday, September 18th: Suzhou.

The temple on Cold Mountain

One of the best-loved of China’s old poems is Zhang Ji’s “Night Mooring at Maple Bridge,” fully covered by me here.

As I describe, Maple Bridge is an actual place in Suzhou. I visited it in 2001 but omitted to get a photograph taken. Hoping to rectify this, I now head for the place; but it’s having some restoration work done and is out of bounds to visitors. Apparently the poetry gods don’t want me photographed at Maple Bridge.

The “temple on Cold Mountain” from which Zhang heard the midnight bell is open for business, though.

ORDER IT NOW

And business is definitely what they are open for. There are 1.4 billion Chinese, and every blessed one of them learned that poem in school. For the temple, it’s a gold mine. They have it carved on a big stone slab in one of the temple courtyards.

Having failed to get a photograph taken at the bridge, I thought the next best thing would be to have one taken with the poem, so to that courtyard we went.

There were a couple of hundred people there with the same idea. I got my picture at last, but it was a long wait.

Now come on: How can you not like a country where a great throng of citizens jostle to have their picture taken with a poem?

Politics, East and West

Over the obligatory already-paid-for banquet—we are really being spoiled here—I try to draw out Chiqian on matters social and political.

It’s not my first attempt this trip. In Peking, also at a banquet, I’d tackled Rosie’s cousin (i.e. Uncle and Aunt’s son, thirty-something, senior manager in a government IT enterprise) on these topics. He hadn’t been forthcoming, but I put that down to his being a Party member.

Chiqian’s not a Party member, so I thought he might be franker, but he’s just honestly not much interested.

The Social Credit system? “It’s no trouble if you don’t do dumb things like drive drunk.”

The Great Firewall of China? “There’s an app you can get, fan qiang [‘climb over the wall’]—everybody knows. I can watch YouTube, get Google, no problem.”

Like everybody else we’ve met here, Chiqian is pretty content with things as they are. True, he’s not a Falun Gong member having his organs harvested, or a Nobel Peace Prize winner serving an eleven-year jail sentence, or a Tibetan or a Uighur doing his religious devotions under stern surveillance by secret-police goons. Most Chinese people aren’t any of those things either, though. Most shrug and get along as best they can.

I have no illusions about the ChiComs. I know their methods and their history. I’m a good old Anglo-Saxon constitutionalist. I want to live in a country under rational government, where big national issues are debated openly before decisions are made and basic personal liberties are respected.

China is not a country like that. It’s run by a gangster clique who, like the Mafia, tell the inhabitants of their territory: “Behave yourselves, show us proper respect, don’t make trouble, and we’ll take care of you. Life will be good. But if you try to oppose us, we know where you live.”

For all that, in this quiet relief from the shrieking lunacy of current politics in the West, there are times I find myself wondering …

Thursday, September 19th: Suzhou to Hangzhou.

Railroad station nightmares

Off this morning on the train to Hangzhou. The personal factor here is that one of Rosie’s college classmates, and so one of my students, now has a high position in the administration of a big STEM university there. She invited us to come and visit for a couple of days, staying at the college hotel, all expenses comped.

Our Hangzhou visit doesn’t start well. Hangzhou railroad station is about the size of Dallas, and not well signposted. We got totally lost on arrival, and it’s half an hour before we find our hostess, who has waited patiently for us with a college car and driver.

(Hangzhou isn’t exceptional here. At this point I’m having nightmares about Chinese railroad stations. I could swear we have clocked up more miles wandering around the damn places looking for the ticket office, information booth, restrooms, or exit than we have actually riding the trains.)

Language learning and mimicry

Our hostess’s duties include supervision of the university’s many foreign students. When we get there at last around 11 am she excuses herself: “I have to go expel a student.” Off she goes, leaving us to settle in to our room at the college hotel.

Later, over lunch with her, I ask her about the student she expelled. He was one of the internationals, from Morocco. His offense? “Marijuana. He was found in possession.” How did he get his hands on mary jane in China? “Brought it in with him.”

She tells us stories about the international students. A high proportion are from Russia and Central Asia, all part of Xi Jinping’s “Belt and Road” scheme to lock the whole world into Chinese mercantilism.

There is also a number of West Africans, who, she said, get good at Chinese more quickly than the average foreigner. She tells the following story.

Some Chinese students were walking to class when they saw a black student ahead of them. He was from Cameroon, it later turned out — very black. One of the Chinese students remarked on this: “See how black his skin is!”

The Cameroon student stopped, turned, and addressed them in very colloquial Mandarin: Ni tama shuo shei?—”Who the f*** are you talking about?”

Other people have noticed the same thing about West Africans. I remarked on it myself when reviewing Tété-Michel Kpomassie’s book about Greenland.

Here’s some video of a case quite famous in Japan. The link was sent to me by a reader. I passed it on to my go-to guy for things Japanese, a white American who lives over there and speaks Japanese. He:

I lived in Africa. I knew multilingual Africans. While all of them seemed fluent, none could engage in the sort of conversations you and I have had together in any language. They could not read Robert Louis Stevenson. When your entire thought universe has a vocab of a couple thousand words, I think its easier to move into new languages … Japanese people judging a foreigner’s Japanese? Well. No one is ever going to criticize a foreigner’s Japanese.

A different friend, not a Japanese speaker but a race realist:

What West Africans tend to be good at is mimicry. A lot of black comedians work that. Mimicry will quickly get you some way into a language, but no further. Your pal in Japan is right: you won’t be reading novels.

That sounds right to me. The early stages of language learning are mostly mimicry. Our hostess in Hangzhou speaks excellent English; but before we got here I spent ten days among people who spoke only Chinese (not counting the Mrs, of course). Rosie tells me my Chinese has improved considerably these ten days.

A mutual acquaintance

Our hostess is a very busy lady. This afternoon, when she is showing us her office, two male international students come in with documents she has to sign—something to do with immigration. The students look Central Asian.

While the documents are being read, I ask the students in English where they are from.

He: “We are from Turkmenistan.”

Me: “Ah—Gurbanguly Berdymukhammedov!”

The two students look at each other, giggle nervously, then turn away.

What is socialism?

When I first got interested in politics fifty-something years ago, I quickly learned the meaning of socialism. It was printed right there on every Labour Party membership card: “Public ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange.”

The ChiComs beg to differ. They have a big public campaign going on, with posters and displays all over, promoting the Twelve Principles of Socialism.

What are the Twelve Principles of Socialism? From one of the posters:

Prosperity
Democracy
Civility
Harmony
Freedom
Equality
Justice
Rule of Law
Patriotism
Dedication
Integrity
Friendship

Socialism, in other words, is everything nice. Plainly the definition I learned in 1963 was too … definitive for the ChiComs.

My favorite ChiCom leader was Hua Guofeng, Mao’s immediate successor as Chairman. Hua’s chairmanship wasn’t very successful. It only lasted five years; then he was outmaneuvered by Deng Xiaoping and pushed back into the lower echelons of the Inner Party.

Hua did, though, stay in office long enough to promote one of those number-tagged mini-ideologies the Chinese love. It was called The Two Whatevers:

We will resolutely uphold whatever policy decisions Chairman Mao made, and unswervingly follow whatever instructions Chairman Mao gave.

Current ChiCom ideology is, it seems to me, in direct line of descent from Hua’s Two Whatevers. Socialism with Chinese characteristics is nothing to do with public ownership of the, etc. It can happily embrace, for example, a billionaire property developer with good Party connections pushing peasants off their land with minimal compensation, or none, so the developer can build high-rise apartment blocks.

Socialism is just whatever the Party says it is. Civility! Integrity! Friendship!

That is the true state ideology of China today: Whateverism.

Wenming in the privy

Of the Twelve Principles, civility—wenming in Chinese—is being pushed hardest of all.

China’s leaders have become acutely aware that Westerners regard some of their long-established social customs—spitting in the street, promiscuous smoking, fighting scrimmages to get on trains—as uncouth. They want their citizens to clean up their acts, as a matter of national pride.

ORDER IT NOW

It’s working, at any rate in the big cities. I was astonished to see, in the Peking subway, people standing in neat lines waiting for the trains. (How do they know where to stand? The track is sealed off from the platform by a transparent partition, with doors that open automatically right opposite the train’s doors when the train stops.)

I saw a cute example of wenming promotion in a public convenience at one of the Peking parks. Set in the wall above the urinal was a card with the message:

Qianjin—xiao bu
Wenming—da bu

“Advance—a small step; civility—a big step.” It’s a rough equivalent of the sign sometimes seen on American urinals: “We aim to please. You aim too, please.”

Friday, September 20th: Hangzhou.

Does he drink white liquor?

I am under the weather this morning—listless, sleepy. Too many changes of air, too many banquets.

No, this is not a hangover. Sure, we had a banquet last night with white liquor, but I didn’t get drunk. I’ve had hangovers, including white liquor hangovers; I know from hangovers; this isn’t one. I’m just under the weather.

This is a shame, as we had intended to spend today circumambulating West Lake, the most famous beauty spot in Hangzhou.

The circumambulation is about six miles. I just barely make it.

In the subway going back to our hotel I sit opposite a young male Chinese albino—the first I can recollect ever seeing.

Saturday, September 21st: Hangzhou to Shaoxing.

The old Malthusian China

Some years ago, when private automobile ownership was just taking off in China, Rosie was on a solo visit there. She noticed that none of the first-time car owners bothered to use the seat belt. Why not? She asked a relative.

He replied with a shrug: Si yi ge, shao yi ge—”One dead, one fewer,” with the implied sense: “One more person dead, one fewer clogging up the place.” Hard to imagine a sentiment more candidly Malthusian.

With the ongoing demographic collapse and the relentless promotion of wenming, I doubt people say that much any more. That kind of thinking characterized the old, poor China, where whatever you wanted—to get on a train, to get a permit at some bureaucrat’s office, to receive your monthly cabbage ration—there was a great milling elbow-jabbing scrum of other people wanting the same thing.

That older China isn’t quite dead, though. Back at Hangzhou railroad station this morning carrying pre-bought tickets to Shaoxing, we get stuck behind a vast seething crowd at the entrance to the security area. We have no idea why there’s such a mob at this place at this time, but it holds us up so long we can see we’ll miss our train. We go back to the ticket office and exchange our tickets for later ones.

Down the blue-red gradient

Our contact in Shaoxing is another 1983 graduate of Siping Normal College, name of Yibing. He teaches at a big private university here. (The 19th Party Congress in 2017 passed resolutions encouraging private entrepreneurs to set up institutions of higher education. Entrepreneurs have responded enthusiastically. There’s money in higher ed., and of course prestige—a grand building with your name on it.)

Shaoxing is a smaller, less touristy place than Hangzhou or Suzhou, so we have come a few steps down the cosmopolitan-communitarian (metropolitan-provincial, blue-red) gradient here. There are more guys smoking (hardly any women); there’s noticably more spitting and less orderly queueing; and perhaps private automobile ownership is less settled-in here than in the big cities; at any rate, we see our first Chinese fender-bender here this morning.

As in Hangzhou, we are put up at the university’s own hotel, staffed largely by students taking courses in hotel management.

I notice that our room number begins with the digits 85, yet it’s on the fifth floor. Our room number in the Peking hotel began with 83, but it was on the third floor. So … what’s with those superfluous eights?

I ask Rosie. She: “Eight is lucky.”

Oh.

More Chinglish

There is a large sign posted on the inside of our hotel’s elevator door, listing various things prohibited to elevator riders. One of them is translated into English as No slapping. The Mrs and I giggle at this all the way up to our floor.

Wine on a stick

Yibing takes us sightseeing.

Shaoxing’s main claim to fame is its rice wine, which you can buy in any American Chinatown (although, according to Yibing, only in inferior versions). This is a wine, not a liquor, comparable in proof to the supermarket Merlot we drink at home.

Marketing-wise, the Chinese don’t miss a trick. Visiting one of the wine outlets I was offered, and accepted, a Shaoxing wine popsicle. It was delicious.

The Chinese Orwell

For me, the big draw in Shaoxing is the Lu Xun museum.

Lu was a writer—essays and short stories—of the 1920s and 1930s. He has been called “the Chinese Orwell” for his cold-eyed critiques of China’s sociopolitical customs, mixed with a deep patriotism and some naïve leftism.

The communists have canonized Lu, although they would certainly have shot him if he had survived into their dictatorship. (He died in 1936 from TB.) Independent thinkers were not tolerated in Mao Tse-tungs’s cheap Chinese knock-off of Stalinist totalitarianism any more than they were in the original.

The museum—it was actually Lu’s childhood home: he was a native of Shaoxing—is very atmospheric. I mooch around happily and buy Lu Xun tchotchkes: bookmarks with Lu Xun quotes (e.g. “If you don’t explode in the dark, you will die in the dark”), a Lu Xun keychain fob, a chinese fan with another quote (“The highest felicity in human life is to find one person who understands you”).

They even have a room where you can play a Lu Xun board game, printed up on paper and trapped under transparent plastic table covers. I want to buy one but they’re not for sale. My next idea was to have Rosie distract the person supervising the room so I could slip one game out from under its plastic sheet, but Rosie wouldn’t go along.

Expelled from the palace!

In ancient times, before the Chinese empire got going in earnest and Chinese people lived in many small states, Shaoxing was the capital of a state named Yue.

The early-5th-century King of Yue, Goujian, is one of the great figures of his period. His career is well-known to all educated Chinese—and probably, since recent successful movies and TV series, to the general.

We prowl around the part-reconstructed remains of Goujian’s palace, which is blessedly free of any other sightseers. Then the custodian of the site spots us and starts yelling. Apparently we are late; the place is closed, and we shouldn’t be there. He shoos us out, angrily locking doors behind us.

The thing I notice here is the custodian’s dialect. I couldn’t understand a word. Could Rosie? “I got the main idea,” she allowed. Well, yes, so did I; but did she understand what he was saying? I don’t press enquiries.

Sunday, September 22nd: Shaoxing.

Self-reflections

Modernity has not deprived the Chinese of their ready wit.

At one of the scenic spots, Yibing wants to take a picture of the Derbs. We pose obligingly and he fiddles with his smartphone … and fiddles … and fiddles. He has got the thing into selfie mode and doesn’t know how to get it back to regular camera.

Rosie steps forward to help. “For goodness’ sake, do you really not know how to get out of selfie mode? I can’t believe it. You take selfies, don’t you?”

Yibing, who is comfortably middle-class but perhaps not as successful as he had once hoped to be, replies with: Wo bu zi pai, wo zi bei—”I don’t do selfies, I do self-pity” … but it sounds funnier in Chinese.

Monday, September 23rd: Shaoxing to Hangzhou, then the overnight train to Chongqing.

Another Yellowtopia

Of the roughly 300 people waiting at Shaoxing railroad station for the 14:48 train to Hangzhou on Monday afternoon, 95 percent are attending to their smartphones. One is writing in a notebook. A few others are dozing or sitting looking at nothing. Not one is reading anything printed on paper—a book, a magazine, a newspaper.

Every one but me is Chinese. (Well, East Asian. Possibly there is a Korean or Japanese in there somewhere.) Outside the colleges and some specialized zones in the biggest cities, mainland China, like Taiwan, is a Yellowtopia.

Tuesday, September 24th: Chongqing.

Joyful reunion

Chongqing, our next stop, is a thousand miles away to the west in Sichuan Province. We take the overnight sleeper from Hangzhou. It’s a sixteen-hour ride (not a gaotie), leaving at 9 pm yesterday, reaching Chongqing at 1 pm today.

Sichuan is the fortress province, surrounded by mountains. In spells of imperial disintegration a warlord who could take Sichuan, like the horrible Zhang Xianzhong, was well situated.

The train ride makes the fortress feature perfectly plain. An extraordinary amount of time is spent going through tunnels. When you can see the landscape, it’s mountains covered with forest, dotted with small villages.

Rosie, who was an army brat, spent much of her childhood and adolescence in Beibei, a satellite town of Chongqing. She left the place after graduating middle school in 1977, and returned with her family to their original home in China’s northeast. She has kept in touch with her Beibei classmates, though, and there’s a joyful reunion this evening—actually a banquet of course.

This is a real hen party, a big round table full of fiftysomething women who knew each other in their teens, all talking at the tops of their voices in Chinese. Only Rosie knows English. I sit smiling benignly, only contributing an occasional short remark. This evening is for Rosie.

Middle-class Chinese life

Our hosts here are one of those classmates, name of Xiaoyan, and her husband Shiyu. They will put us up for three nights in their Beibei apartment, which has a spare bedroom.

Xiaoyan and Shiyu live well. Both are retired: in China most women retire at 55, most men at 60. Xiaoyan was a nurse, Shiyu a math teacher. The apartment, in a newish high-rise, is paid for, and there is no property tax. Their pensions give them about RMB10,000 a month ($1,400). They are active—swimming, yoga, hiking—and take vacations abroad, most recently to Thailand. They have a daughter, gainfully employed, who lives not far away.

They are pretty contented and not interested in politics. Rosie tells me, however, that one of the ladies at the banquet referred to Beibei’s central administration building as fubai lou, “Corruption Towers,” to nodded agreement from the others.

Wednesday, September 25th: Chongqing.

China’s ghost villages

We take our morning walk along an ancient riverside track, associated in some way I have forgotten with the great 3rd-century general Zhang Fei.

This takes us through a village named Taohuashan (Peach Blossom Mountain) which, from the look of it and its inhabitants, will soon be a ghost village, like those you see on YouTube clips of the Japanese countryside.

Then, some local places of interest.

Whitewashing the past

The one that most got my attention celebrated another 20th-century writer, Lao She, who lived in Beibei in the 1940s. His house is now a museum dedicated to his memory.

Lao She was so badly persecuted by Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution, he committed suicide. In all the hundreds of words, in both Chinese and English, accompanying the exhibits in Beibei’s Lao She museum, there is no mention of this fact.

Thursday, September 26th: Chongqing.

The click of the tiles

Taking an evening walk along any residential street in Hong Kong forty years ago, from every window around and above you came the click and chatter of mah-jong tiles. It was the musical accompaniment to life in Hong Kong.

I never heard that in mainland China in 1982-3. I’m not sure if there was a formal prohibition; but to judge by my ears, nobody was playing mah-jong.

Now it’s back. I see and hear people playing mah-jong all over. Beibei actually has a mah-jong parlor, all the tables occupied as we walked past.

ORDER IT NOW

People play for money, too, although only for small bills in the cases I have seen. I can’t imagine this is something the authorities approve. Hong Kong newspapers back in the day ran regular stories—like one a week—about some working stiff who’d got his weekly pay, headed for the mah-jong parlor instead of going home to his family, lost all his money at the tables, and thrown himself from an upper window. Si yi ge, shao yi ge.

Ken Behring, RIP

Not having much interest in sports I had never heard of Ken Behring, former owner of the NFL’s Seattle Seahawks. Behring died this June, aged 91.

Among his numerous philanthropies, Ken Behring helped establish a rather good Natural History Museum in Beibei, a couple of minutes’ walk from the apartment we are staying at. There’s a whole section of the museum dedicated to him.

This and some other local philanthropy got Behring awarded an honorary citizenship of Chongqing in 2015, and I wouldn’t begrudge it him at all. Thanks, guy.

Friday, September 27th: Chongqing to Zhuhai.

Last stop

Friday morning we fly from Chongqing to our last stop this trip, the fine new city of Zhuhai on China’s south coast next door to Hong Kong.

“Next door” isn’t quite right. Zhuhai and Hong Kong sit on opposite sides of the mouth of the Pearl River, which is about twenty miles wide here. Zhuhai’s at the western side of the mouth, Hong Kong the eastern. Just south of Zhuhai on the same side is the former Portuguese colony of Macau.

The whole area was much in the news last year when the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge/Tunnel was opened, a 34-mile-long structure spanning the entire river mouth.

I’m naturally curious to see this creation, which has had so much publicity. The real fun of this part of our trip, though, is meeting up with some old friends.

The kultprop and the dissident

Our host here is David Wang. When I taught in Siping 1982-3, David was my kultprop, charged with giving me the Party-approved view on any issue I raised.

I never held that against him, and in fact liked the guy. David is smart and witty, and speaks excellent English. We had some minor differences at the time; but now, 36 years later, they don’t seem at all important, and we meet as old friends. He now lives and works in Zhuhai.

David still has the soul of a kultprop, though, and is keen for us to know how great life in China is now.

Also greeting us is Bruce Li. No, this is not the movie actor who died in 1973, although the Chinese names are homophonous. This is a classmate of David’s—they both graduated from Siping College in 1981—who was teaching high school in a nearby town when I was at the college, and used to drop by at my office to practice his English.

Bruce went to England in the mid-1980s, married an English girl—I drove them to their wedding—and acquired U.K. citizenship. He and his wife moved to Hong Kong, where she is head librarian at the Chinese University there. Bruce has come to Zhuhai to greet us.

This is where the fun comes in. Bruce is a dissident who hates the ChiComs. He supports the Hong Kong protestors. So with David playing kultprop in one ear while Bruce snaps back cynicisms in the other, I’m getting an interesting dialectic.

It’s all very good-natured, I should say. When you’ve known guys for 36 years, you’re not expecting any surprises. Nobody thinks anyone’s mind is going to be changed; nobody’s being dishonest; David’s booster talk and Bruce’s cynicism are both genuine. The three of us all like each other at a personal level, so the hell with politics.

Heroic materialism

We take a boat trip around the river mouth to check out the bridge. Bruce has malicious fun pointing out, what is plain to see, that there is hardly any traffic on it. Private motorists need special plates to drive on the bridge, and the plates are expensive. The best way for ordinary folk to traverse it, Bruce says, is by bus; a ticket costs RMB65 (less than ten dollars).

In the other ear of course David is extolling the beauty of the thing, and the difficulties overcome in constructing it.

I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, yes, the bridge is a totalitarian extravaganza, a ChiCom vanity project. On the other hand, it’s a pretty neat piece of engineering, of a kind that we in the USA seem to have given up on, and potentially useful if they’d let people use the darn thing.

I’m not the world’s biggest fan of heroic materialism, but I don’t much care for stagnation either.

Render unto the Party …

David is a Party member, although not (he says) an active one. I ask him what the annual dues are. Answer: RMB600, or about ninety dollars.

Does he have a Party card? No, he says. A Party number? Again no. It all sounds rather easygoing.

It seems to me a shame to have done away with Party numbers. Back in Comintern days, having a low Party number was a status symbol. It meant you’d joined the Party early on.

There’s just no romance to communism any more.

Thanks, China …

There’ll be some more sightseeing around Zhuhai tomorrow; then on Sunday, back to the States via Canton and Taipei.

This evening we have our last banquet. The four of us—the Derbs, David, and Bruce—are joined by some other old Siping classmates. A surprising number have settled here in the far south. Hard to blame them; the climate is lovely.

The food is excellent; many toasts are drunk; many reminiscences exchanged. It’s all wonderfully gemütlich, the best banquet of the trip.

I have my differences with China. I’d dearly like to see the place under rational, constitutional government, though I don’t suppose I shall in what’s left of my lifetime.

China has, however, given me some of my most enduring friendships, a loyal and loving wife, and some useful life lessons.

Thanks, China, and thanks to those who hosted us and made this vacation so enjoyable.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him.) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. I’ve used Chinese place-names except where there is a well-established (according to me) English name for a Chinese place: Peking, Canton.]

    Thank you. I find the Mandarin unpronounceable.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  2. Great stuff! Many thanks! A few quibbles:

    I want to live in a country under rational government, where big national issues are debated openly before decisions are made and basic personal liberties are respected. Big national issues are debated openly in China before before decisions are made and basic personal liberties are respected. Yep. GM foods were debated (and what national issue is bigger than food purity?) and shelved when people said they didn’t want it. In America, no national debate was permitted.

    Basic personal liberties are more respected in China than in America, too. Prisons are emptier, debate is more wide-ranging and voter participation–under supervision of the Carter Center–is higher.

    China is .. run by a gangster clique who, like the Mafia, tell the inhabitants of their territory: “Behave yourselves, show us proper respect, don’t make trouble, and we’ll take care of you. Life will be good. But if you try to oppose us, we know where you live.” Total horseshit. All governments are allergic to opposition but China’s is among the most tolerant. Prisons are empty compared to ours, debate is spirited and dissent is encouraged. Harvard’s Gary King[1] says, “Contrary to much research and commentary, the purpose of the censorship program is not to suppress criticism of the State or the Communist Party. Indeed, despite widespread censorship of social critics, we find that when Chinese people write scathing criticisms of their government and its leaders the probability that their post will be censored does not increase. Instead, censored tweets were equally likely to be against the state, for the state, irrelevant, or factual reports about events. Negative, even vitriolic criticism of the state, its leaders and its policies are not more likely to be censored.” Maria Repnikova[2] finds critical journalism alive and well–including (successful) attacks on the Supreme Court


    [1] “Reverse-Engineering Chinese Censorship”. Gary King
    Thursday, September 12, 2013
    [2] Media Politics in China: Improvising Power under Authoritarianism by Maria Repnikova, C.U.P., July 15, 2017.

    • LOL: Poupon Marx
    • Replies: @BlackDragon
    , @FB
    , @Tusk
    , @Half-Jap
    , @Ace
  3. Thanks, my opinion of China remains the same (emphasizing harmony leads to ossification, corruption, resentment, and decline), but it was good to get the background color for what is to come.

    On a different note: Move your Bitcoin to a hardware wallet, or at the very least use Exodus. Secure your seed phrase. Delete Coinbase. Seriously, delete Coinbase. Use Cashapp to buy Bitcoin. Move it immediately to your hardware wallet.

    Not your keys, not your coins. Trusted third parties are security holes. Coinbase is fucking cancer.

  4. dearieme says:

    Thank you, Mr D.

    One relief of reading right-wingers is that they feel no need to be sour all the time.

  5. 1)Everybody in China looks Chinese

    2)Chinese Army looks Han Racially pure…

    3)The Chinese come LEGALLY to America…and DEMAND the right to vote Whitey into a White Racial Minority within the borders of America….

    4)Donald Trump ENTHUSIASTICALLY imports the highly RACIALIZED Han Democratic Party from Voting Bloc from China….

    5)I hope they impeach Trump and put him in jail….The race war against THE HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS MAJORITY started in 1965……Impeach Trump….THE RACE WAR!!!! BECOMES OFFICIAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY RACE POLICY…..

    6)America’s open space…forests…valleys..crystal clear streams..bucolic America…will be paved over for the Han GENELINE in America….and the Hindu GENELINE in America….

    7)Native Born White Working Class Americans never should have dropped their fertility level to the ZPG LEVEL back in 1970….Numbersusa.com…Paul Ehrlich….tell Young Native Born White American Women to have no more than one White Child……The Han Invader…The Hindu Invader…The Pakistan Muslim Invaders took advantage of this massive drop in Native Born White American Working Class fertility back in 1970…..

    Conclusion:The DC Beltway Immigration Reform Movement=A Cult that promoted..and still does…WHITE GENOCIDE!!!!

    • Agree: RadicalCenter, Ace
  6. Smith says:

    Can Godfree Roberts show me a chink national debate?

    Is it like Vietnam where it’s a bunch of eggheads talking to each other on TV while the peasants watch?

  7. Svevlad says:

    Tbh “rational, constitutional” governments are just begging to get NIMBY’d to death, ESPECIALLY in China (heck, America can’t get shit done infrastructure wise due to such idiocy)

    An Iranian style government sans the theocracy is the best if you ask me – it’s a feedback loop of checks and balances, allows people (and it shouldn’t allow all of them either) some choice, and also prevents retards from coming to power

    • Replies: @WhiteCoper
  8. Dutch Boy says:

    Mr. D’s analysis of the Chinese elite begs a comparison to our own. Ron Unz has pointed out that the Chinese elite are actually less greedy than our own, corralling a much lower percentage of GNP. They also seem to be more responsive to outrageous corporate behavior. When a few Chinese children died and a few thousand were sickened by melamine added to dairy products, the main perpetrators were executed. Compare this to the Vioxx and opiate scandals here, which caused hundreds of thousands of deaths, yet nobody has even gone to jail, much less been executed. Mr.D also pointed out that the CCP seems to have some interest in preserving at least some aspects of Chinese culture (not to mention not importing millions of non-Chinese serfs). Any interest by our overlords in preserving anything but corporate profits? Nope.

  9. Thank you, John Derbyshire, for your report on China. It is wonderful and informative to read what a man with history and experience there has to tell us.

    And the heroic story of your romance! Shakespeare cannot compare: Romeo does not jump in front of a jeep for Juliet.

    And guess what: I too married a communist colonel’s daughter. (She is a mathematician, by the way.) Yes, my father-in-law, now retired, was a colonel in Ceaușescu’s army. I did not have to jump in front of any vehicles, though.

    Best regards to you, Sir.

  10. If the HAN People of China woke up tomorrow and found that every Engineering Department at every Chinese University…the Faculty….Graduate Students…..Undergraduate Students…were all Hindus from India…How long with this state affairs last?

    Answer:between one week and one month:inf=one week….sup=one month…

    GOD BLESS THE NAZI HAN PROPLE OF CHINA!!!!

    • LOL: MAOWASAYALI
  11. Daniel H says:

    Travel writer Jan Morris, at the end of one of her pieces about China,

    Oh, Derb, it disappoints me to see you give up on this issue. Should read, “Travel writer Jan Morris, at the end of on of HIS pieces about China…..”

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  12. bossel says:

    The dirty, poor, squalid Siping of 36 years ago has gone

    Don’t know about 36 years ago, but I worked there for a year or two around 2013 & it was still dirty & poor (compared to any of the other places I lived or worked in).

    There were still lots of quite old one-storeyed houses which you could see from the bus to the city center. Back then they didn’t even have one of the ubiquitous hypermarkets. (Though one was advertised as being built. Might be finished now.)
    There is one good thing to say about Siping: They have proper sausages of quite some variety. Well, OK, if you like Sauerkraut, you might find some tasty dishes there, too.

    • Replies: @WhiteCoper
  13. Miro23 says:

    The food is excellent; many toasts are drunk; many reminiscences exchanged. It’s all wonderfully gemütlich, the best banquet of the trip.

    I have my differences with China. I’d dearly like to see the place under rational, constitutional government, though I don’t suppose I shall in what’s left of my lifetime.

    China has, however, given me some of my most enduring friendships, a loyal and loving wife, and some useful life lessons.

    Thanks, China, and thanks to those who hosted us and made this vacation so enjoyable.

    A very sympathetic and interesting article on China. Derb offers a unique perspective.

  14. https://vdare.com/posts/return-of-derb-the-eagle-has-landed

    No. Return of Derb the Dumb, the cuck has landed.

    As you seem to think you don’t have much of a lifetime left, I recall that your Chinese woman is looking for a Chinese wife for your Chinese son.

    I have the girl for you. Selam Gano is half-Chinese like your son. She speaks four languages. She is a Mechanical Engineering student at MIT so she is much smarter than your offspring. She is brown like your Chinese woman. Your son could not do better than this gal.

    • Replies: @Daemon
    , @foobc1
  15. Anon[377] • Disclaimer says:

    Great piece Derb! Wonderful to hear from you again.

  16. @Reg Cæsar

    It’s only fair to use these two, as those are the airport codes too: PEK and CAN.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  17. I’ve been looking forward to your report, as the only unbiased straight-up story I could get from an old China hand (you gotta be old just to say “old China hand”). I’ll admit Mr. Reed on here initially gave a nice travelogue as a guy who just saw the place as a tourist for a couple of weeks, but then he got stupid again.

    I would like to add just a few minor details/questions/comments, which I’ll break up into a few small comments:

    About the Peking subway – it’s an inner ring and an outer ring mainly, but I can’t remember if the are any other crossing lines. They cover a long ways. Now, as you say, names are in English too, but here’s the problem I had. I was trying to get somewhere using the big schematic (well, more like a true map) on the wall. You can see the stop where you are, even if it may take a while. You can take a little longer and see the stop where you’re going. That’s fine, so far.

    Nowhere on the damn thing did it say which way the line was going, CW or CCW, in English! Now, I’ve got a pretty good sense of direction, but I came inside the place without keeping track of which way was N/S/E/W on the outside. You get down there, and this one line could be the CW or the other could be, and for my trip, it really mattered on that long outer run. I think I just took a guess. No, I’m not gonna be able to learn Chinese, so next time, I’ll get a map ahead of time.

  18. I can’t believe that you didn’t know about the lucky numbers, Mr. Derbyshire. (You said “oh”?) Maybe it’s a new thing, but 8’s are lucky, yes, and 4’s are unlucky as they (not rhyme, but whatever the term is for having the same tone as) with “die” from what I’m told.

    Back when one can get a SIM card for an unlocked mobile phone on the street*, ones with lots of 8’s would cost more, and ones with lots of 4’s would be cheap. For an American who doesn’t believe in any of the superstition crap, go for the 4’s. However, if this phone # were for a business purpose, I’d want to think twice, as people would not want to call! In Charlotte, N. Carolina, the big taxi company has the number (704) 444-4444. Ask Rosie for me, if she’d ever ride in one.

    .

    * This is all locked up now, in a different sense of “lock”, the Orwellian sense.

  19. Regarding your hostess in Hangzhou who deals with the foreign students, it brings to my mind an incident in which I observed a government that takes the nation more seriously than ours does. It was in a place you mention here, Aomen (as the Chinese call Macao now), while going across the border to Zhuhai. I had an arrangement to meet a friend who was already in Zhuhai, right there on the other side, and we had no phones to use.

    Well, right when it was my turn to get through, this guy with a passport with a crescent moon on it had to get back in front of me, after doing something else. Man, that Chinese immigration officer wasn’t screwing around with the green crescent-moon guy. He looked at each page of the passport with a magnifying glass. This went on for 10 minutes. I was really sweating out not making it in time to meet my friend and our transportation, but pleased that this country took threats seriously.

    As it was finally my turn again, I asked the immigration guy “Moslem?” pointing at the guy. I think he understood, and I gave him thumbs up, as in “that’s the way you do it!”

  20. @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s only fair to use these two, as those are the airport codes too: PEK and CAN.

    Peking to Kristiansand gives you PEK-KRS. Fresno to Canton, FAT-CAN. Fukuoka to Canton to Akureyri (an unlikely itinerary) FUK-CAN-AEY.

    Philadelphia to Seghe in the Solomon’s is nothing to cough at, either: PHL-EGM.

    https://i0.wp.com/etn.travel/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/etn.travel45f834269e626fd5bc92d3c0-e4035c0dfd7d9511ec57bb667764969b45f4fed4.jpg?fit=420%2C280&ssl=1

  21. Oneworld says:

    Comment on the etymology of ‘mandarin’ and ‘coolie’. Both of these English words derive from Chinese not Hindi. ‘Mandarin”, is a transliteration of 满大人,’mandaren’, in pinyin, which means ‘important Manchu'( The Manchus ruled the Chinese from 1644-1911) What we now call Mandarin Chinese is based on the Peking dialect, which was the language of the imperial court. ‘Coolie’, is from, 苦力, kuli in pinyin, which literally means, ‘bitter labor’.

    Enjoyed your brief travelogue, Mr, Derbyshire. As an American student at Peking University 40 years ago, I have similar emotions and impressions when I’ve made recent visits. Hard as it is to believe or admit, the development of China in the last 40 years has been astonishing. None of us, or the Chinese we knew, would have imagined it possible back then. The standard of living, health, personal freedom and opportunities of the Chinese people have been improved immensely, and only the most blinkered ideologue would debate this. Most of these accomplishments are the due to the collective talent and culture of the Chinese themselves, again allowed to flourish in a stable and secure polity. ‘Whateverism’, as long as it works, may be the best way to run a place. Much of our present political and social breakdown is the result of too much abstract ideological principle crushing traditional ways of life and culture. Funny, that’s what China was like in 1978!

  22. Daemon says:
    @attilathehen

    >>Ctrl-F “attilathehen”
    You did not disappoint me, woman.

    • LOL: attilathehen
    • Replies: @Charon
  23. @Smith

    Wu Jinglian, a visiting professor at Yale whom media dubbed ‘Market Wu,’ had been persecuted during the Cultural Revolution for advocating ‘compensation according to work’ and labeled an American spy when he publicly charged central planning officials with seeking payoffs. He campaigned for membership in the World Trade Organization then, distressed by the resultant inequality and crony capitalism, championed social justice. Millions bought his book, China’s Growth Model Choices and millions more watched Oxford economist Zhang Weiying call the government’s industrial policies ‘reworked Soviet-style planning’ and Justin Yifu Lin[1], former World Bank Chief Economist, defend them: “The secret of China’s success is its use of both the ‘invisible hand’ and the visible hand: only when the market and the government play their respective roles can technological innovation and industrial upgrading proceed smoothly.”

    In reality, says economist Pierre Landry[2], Beijing’s highly visible hand conducts the orchestra, “Central reformers direct and local state agents improvise and it is this paradoxical mixture of top-down direction and bottom-up improvisation that lays the foundation for the coevolutionary processes of radical change.” Central government intervenes, but mostly through goals, grants, praise and promotions, says Pierre Landry[3], “One would expect the PRC to be one of the most centralized countries. Instead, China’s observed level of decentralization is consistent with the behavior of a federal democracy. An IMF study found that, in 1972-2000, this figure averaged twenty-five percent for liberal democracies and eighteen percent for non-democracies. But, for China, the average figure was fifty-four percent for 1958-2002 and, by 2014, had risen to a staggering 85 percent.”

    Investigative journalist Cui Yongyuan[4] hosted a popular talk show, Tell It Like It Is, that garnered him 20 million Weibo followers. In 2013 he catalyzed national debate by voicing vehement opposition to the government’s plan to introduce genetically modified food. He exchanged heated, personal attacks with GM food supporters, greatly impacted how it is viewed, and helped defeat the legislation. His allegations about tax evasion by China’s highest-paid actress, Fan Bingbing, triggered a nationwide tax audit of the entire entertainment industry and forced it to disgorge two billion dollars in taxes and fines. He publicly accused Shanghai police of taking huge bribes during their investigation of the case and of ignoring death threats to himself and his daughter. When the police responded by saying they had been unable to reach him, Cui ridiculed them and turned his attention to the highest levels of the legal system.

    The biggest difference between their public debates and ours is their attitude to bullshit. Mao was emphatic about it, “Unless you have investigated a problem you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Is that too harsh? Not at all! When you have not probed a problem and know nothing of its essentials, or looked into the present facts and their history, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense? It won’t do! It won’t do! You must investigate! You must not talk nonsense!”

    Compared to our censors[5], the Chinese censors’ powers are limited. Not only do private censors have no responsibility to explain their policies, but the government is free to impose secret gag orders on hundreds of thousands of citizens. The US has issued a million national security letters, administrative subpoenas with gag orders that enjoin recipients from ever divulging they’ve even received them. The President controls all information. Through EO 10995 and 12472 and, in 2011, ordered the execution of American citizen for preaching Wahabbism and separately executed his sixteen-year-old son and eight-year-old daughter, all without trial.


    [1] Demystifying the Chinese Economy. Justin Yifu Lin. Cambridge University Press
    [2] Decentralized Authoritarianism in China. Pierre F Landry. Cambridge University Press.
    [3] Decentralized Authoritarianism in China. Pierre F Landry. Cambridge University Press.
    [4] MEET CUI YONGYUAN, CHAT SHOW HOST: CHINA’S UNLIKELIEST WHISTLE-BLOWER (JUST ASK FAN BINGBING). SCMP Jan 26, 2019
    [5] The US has issued a million national security letters, administrative subpoenas with gag orders that enjoin recipients from ever divulging they’ve even received them. The President controls all information. Through EO 10995 and 12472 and, in 2011, ordered the execution of American citizen for preaching Wahabbism and separately executed his sixteen-year-old son and eight-year-old daughter, all without trial.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Smith
  24. ” I want to live in a country under rational government, where big national issues are debated openly before decisions are made and basic personal liberties are respected.”

    So you’ll be fucking off out of the States then and avoiding Europe.

    And “ChiComs”? What is this? The Lush Rimblow show?

  25. Barnard says:

    Chiqian’s not a Party member, so I thought he might be franker, but he’s just honestly not much interested.

    The Social Credit system? “It’s no trouble if you don’t do dumb things like drive drunk.”

    I can understand why he wouldn’t want to bash the social credit system to you knowing you are going to write about it online. Saying anything negative would almost certainly lead to the ChiComs lowering his score.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  26. Remember that, deep down, he will always regard you and me as latrine flies; he just likes to be read.

  27. @Smith

    Are you white coping, just as Derbyshire is??? LOL.

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
  28. @Oneworld

    blinkered ideologue

    That’s exactly what Derbyshire is. And that’s why he can’t resist throwing in jabs, snide remarks, and passive-aggressive pussy-footing whenever he can. Plus, he knows he can’t mount any real argument in the face of reality when he’s standing right there in China witnessing up-close the China not of his warped imagination but of reality. A reality where China’s running circles around the Anglosphere.

    It makes him shit in his pants thinking how even much further China will in be in just another 5 years or 10 years, and how different the world will be, especially for his ilk. And what will be of his legacy: All that will be left of him after he passes are some writings here and there on the internet and, more importantly, halfie children that will in the years to come increasingly identify, by willful choice or by circumstance, with China and a Chinese identity.

    That’s why he resorts to “Malthusian” this, “Malthusian” that, or “rational constitution” this, “rational constitution” that. Lol, if he’s worried about that, he should be jumping-shipping right out of the US/UK/West, and going to somewhere like China to live out his dwindling years.

    • Replies: @Ace
  29. @Oneworld

    By the way, ‘mandaren’ may be referring to the manchus, but mandarin the dialect has nothing to do with the manchus. It’s just the dialect the imperial court has used for a long long time, and westerners only later on in the modern era decided to call it mandarin.

    • Replies: @Oneworld
  30. @bossel

    The dirty, poor, squalid Siping of 36 years ago has gone

    Don’t know about 36 years ago, but I worked there for a year or two around 2013 & it was still dirty & poor (compared to any of the other places I lived or worked in).

    White Coping is always funny to read. When white people starting White Coping, you know they’re finished.

  31. @Svevlad

    An Iranian style government sans the theocracy is the best if you ask me – it’s a feedback loop of checks and balances, allows people (and it shouldn’t allow all of them either) some choice

    Iran’s government style is much like China’s.

  32. Oneworld says:
    @CommentPassingThru

    Agree with you about the mandarin dialect; it has nothing to do linguistically with the Manchus. I speculate that European visitors during the Qing Dynasty associated important officials with their Manchu overlords, hence the origin of the meaning of ‘mandarin’ in English usage. Likewise they attached the name ‘mandarin’ to the dialect of the court. In Chinese the dialect is called ‘common language'(普通话) in the PRC, and ‘national language’(国语) in the ROC (Taiwan)

    Regarding Mr. Derbyshire’s political ideas, from the few things of his I’ve skimmed, I agree they are inconsistent, apparently manifested in his personal life, but some of his thoughts are interesting and sound, though he is probably overconfident about the timeless superiority of Anglo-Saxon culture. Recall Churchill’s remark about Britain’s world domination as an ‘accident of geography’, referring to their mastery of seapower, which was an fortuitous result of the British Isle’s geographical position in Europe. On the other hand, one also has to wonder at the failure of the Chinese to exploit their vast early 15th century naval and technological superiority during the Ming Dynasty. Had they done so, the Americas, Australia and New Zealand and much of Africa would today be populated by Chinese and Mandarin speaking rather than English speaking.

  33. China gets to send its youth Chinese male-female youth population…of reproductive age…to America where they get to enthusiastically vote THE NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS POPULATION into a White Racial Minority-White Racial Foreigner within the borders of America…..How is this not a RACE WAR against the Historic Native Born White American Majority?

    Oh by the way, Donald Trump is aiding and abetting the Chinese Goverments plans for COLONIZING Native Born White American LIVING AND BREEDING SPACE within the borders of America…How is this not TREASON!!!!!…

    • Replies: @Herald
  34. The railroad station itself is agreeable, too—clean and efficient. Likewise the Peking subways, which put New York’s to shame. Why can’t America have stuff this nice?

    http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/the-talk-nonblack-version/

    THE MORE YOU KNOW.

  35. Huck says:
    @Oneworld

    “Most of these accomplishments are the due to the collective talent and culture of the Chinese themselves…”

    Most of these accomplishments are due to the collective talent and culture of the American, European, and Australian peoples whose elites sold them out to China. One-sided “trade” deals, WTO membership terms consistently ignored, industrial espionage, bribery/extortion/murder of biblical proportions. Our treasonous elites have enriched themselves, aiding and abetting the CCP mafia’s parasitical gorging on our countries’ economies.

  36. Polymath says:

    No Math Corner? Ok, questions about Chinese number-list mania:
    Is there any list shorter than “The Two Whatevers”? Does “The One Party” count? What’s the first number that’s not the length of a Chinese list?
    And a math puzzle about the Chinese Remainder theorem. My favorite set of remainders is 11,13,14,15,17,19: 6 coprime numbers out of a block of 9. What is the longest set of remainders that includes at least half the numbers in the range between its min and max?

  37. Oneworld says:
    @Huck

    What you wrote is standard low brow mainstream media propaganda. It is as silly as those who claim European civilization and accomplishments are explained by European acquisition of the Chinese inventions of paper, the magnetic compass, rocketry and gunpowder. Not to mention that a large part of pre-industrial capital formation in Europe and the U.S. came about by trade with China for tea, cotton textiles, silk and porcelain–the manufacture and technology behind them was something which the Europeans took decades to master after actively stealing the technology. Chinese attempts to keep their trade secrets from the Europeans, while happily selling them their products to get rich, were as vain as the current notion that the solution to our problems is to build a wall and hide behind it. The Chinese tried that one, too.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  38. @Oneworld

    Chinese did not invent the compass. They possessed the lodestone which Arabs discovered how to use as a compass.

    Similarly, their gunpowder was a firework. Europeans, for better or worse, found a way to kill people with it.

    All sorts of countries were involved in the Silk Route.

  39. Oneworld says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Your comments are at odds with the historical record.

  40. Good to see this article featured now at the top of UR, as it is a fun read and a more balanced view of China than we usually see here.

  41. @Jeff Stryker

    This is White Cope. (And I’m a connoisseur of White Cope because I just love reading them.)

    Wrong on the first two counts. Like Oneworld said, your comments are at odds with the historical record. The first compasses were invented in China; the arabs did make use of them and of course made modifications of their own. And gunpowder was not just fireworks. The Chinese invented explosives (for warfare and for blasting through rock for construction/engineering purposes), hand grenades, landmines, cannons, grenade launchers, etc, out of them. Also a little known fact is that the very first proto-firearm where you have a handheld device that ejects a small spherical projectile by means of pressurized explosive force was first invented in China.

    On the third count, no one has ever said anything to the contrary — that China was solely responsible for the Silk Road. Not the Chinese themselves, not non-Chinese. No one.

    .
    .
    .

    White Cope is a helluva drug.

  42. jim jones says:

    Excellent article, a dose of real Communism seems to have left the Chinese immune to the cult of Equality

  43. Bigbeef says:

    China’s at a stage where it’s hoping and dreaming of going to the next stage of development but the obstacle is the ‘middle-income trap’. I think the US is in a middle income trap too (it’s a high income country but that’s just exchange rates, history, technology, something no one has a full grasp on), meaning how the hell do you motivate an entire people to do more when they have shelter, all the varieties of food you want, healthcare, all the basics covered? All the motivations of a real existential anxiety ridden country gone little by little. How do you induce super ambition to a chattering, fat jolly masses? That’s the middle income trap question. That’s why JD’s example of subways in NY is apt. Who gives damn, seriously? And why would we be serious about our subways? If there were no subways, that may be a problem but please explain how it’s existential? That’s about the level of normal humanity we live in everywhere I travel. I think we need huge amounts of douchebags, psychopaths, and sociopaths to escape the middle income trap.

  44. geokat62 says:
    @Huck

    Most of these accomplishments are due to the collective talent and culture of the American, European, and Australian peoples whose elites sold them out to China. One-sided “trade” deals, WTO membership terms consistently ignored, industrial espionage, bribery/extortion/murder of biblical proportions. Our treasonous elites have enriched themselves, aiding and abetting the CCP mafia’s parasitical gorging on our countries’ economies.

    FIFY:

    Most of these accomplishments are due to the collective talent and culture of the American, European, and Australian peoples whose (((elites))) sold them out to China. One-sided “trade” deals, WTO membership terms consistently ignored, industrial espionage, bribery/extortion/murder of biblical proportions. Our treasonous (((elites))) have enriched themselves, aiding and abetting the CCP mafia’s parasitical gorging on our countries’ economies.

  45. Dr. X says:

    Chiqian’s not a Party member, so I thought he might be franker, but he’s just honestly not much interested.

    The Social Credit system? “It’s no trouble if you don’t do dumb things like drive drunk.”

    The Great Firewall of China? “There’s an app you can get, fan qiang [‘climb over the wall’]—everybody knows. I can watch YouTube, get Google, no problem.”

    Like everybody else we’ve met here, Chiqian is pretty content with things as they are.

    Unfortunately, this is the future (present??) of the U.S.

    The average American dipshit could care less about government corruption, censorship, and infringements on freedom so long as he has his flat-screen, his porn, and his football.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Stonehands
    , @Liza
  46. onebornfree says: • Website

    Chinese Citizens Will Be Required To Scan Their Faces To Use The Internet

    “The Chinese government continues its Orwellian practices with the announcement that citizens will have to use facial recognition technology to access the internet (which is already highly fire-walled.)

    This is all a part of China’s social credit system that will take effect on Dec. 1st. After the law is in effect, Chinese citizens who want to have the internet installed at their houses or on their smartphones will be required to undergo a facial recognition process by Chinese authority to prove their identities, according to the new regulation…”

    Chinese Citizens Will Be Required To Scan Their Faces To Use The Internet:
    https://www.activistpost.com/2019/10/chinese-citizens-will-be-required-to-scan-their-faces-to-use-the-internet.html

    Regards,onebornfree

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Disagree: BlackDragon
  47. onebornfree says: • Website

    “China footage reveals hundreds of blindfolded and shackled prisoners:

    Video shows what appear to be Uighur or other minority prisoners ”
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/23/china-footage-reveals-hundreds-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-uighur

    Communist Chinese government destroys Buddhist statues in effort to stamp out religion :

    https://milnenews.com/2019/08/20/communist-chinese-government-destroys-buddhist-statues-in-effort-to-stamp-out-religion/

    The Enemies of Our Civilization:

    “The Left is the most dangerous ideological phenomenon in the history of mankind. It glorifies poverty, the total state, and mass death. The Left wants to destroy Western civilization, based on Christianity, the traditional family, and the free market.

    It’s no coincidence that Communists killed more than 100 million people, not including their wars.

    By the way, young people are not taught about the evils of the Left, only its myths. They do not believe there were gigantic atrocities in the Lenin-Stalin Soviet Union, nor Mao’s China. Socialism is good! Everyone is better off under socialism. Everyone is Equal…..”:
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/08/lew-rockwell/the-enemies-of-our-civilization/

    Chinese State Media Announces 2.56M “Discredited Entities” Prevented From Purchasing Plane Tickets Under Social Credit System :

    https://www.activistpost.com/2019/08/chinese-state-media-announces-2-56m-discredited-entities-prevented-from-purchasing-plane-tickets-under-social-credit-system.html

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @MAOWASAYALI
  48. Herald says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Historic native born Americans are not white.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  49. Biff says:
    @onebornfree

    The National Enquirer Has better credentials than the garbage you’re posting. Give it up man – you’re embarrassing yourself.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  50. nsa says:

    Delb velly velly smalt man know Chinee futule velly blight because not have gleedy hollible heblew tlibe telmites spleading pelvelsion and subvelsion and polnoglaphy evelywhele…….and tlibe not allow cut off end of Chinee baby plicks like in Amelica. And Chinee have large militaly palade with tanks and large lockets on tlucks, not stupid gay plide palade like Amelica.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • LOL: Truth
    • Replies: @Buck Ransom
  51. @Biff

    Do you have information that refutes OneBornFree’s information, Biff? I would trust Lew Rockwell over Godfree Roberts and his Comm-in-tards any day of the lunar cycle.

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
    , @last straw
    , @denk
  52. macilrae says:

    You’d think that hearing all that English would acquaint Peking people with the language, but it’s rare to meet anyone with decent English

    As in New York or London, maybe people there rather expect visitors to attempt to speak the local language? Mind you it’s rather rare to meet a native of those cities who speaks decent Chinese.

    A very interesting and enthralling account, though.

  53. Agent76 says:

    Sep 21, 2019 CHINA: The Purpose of God

    This week we’ll meet the pastor of an unregistered church congregation in China. Because of the danger to him for sharing his story, we aren’t sharing his name and you’ll only hear the voice of his translator during the interview.

    Aug 30, 2019 Chinese Troops “Rotate” Into Hong Kong

    China’s People’s Liberation Army has rotated troops into Hong Kong. But Hong Kong protesters have a new mascot—Pepe the Frog. A major march schedule for this weekend has been forced to cancel.

    • Replies: @Lin
    , @BlackDragon
  54. foobc1 says:
    @attilathehen

    One look at the “Derbyshire face” and it is plainly obvious why he had to import a China bride.

    One feels does pity that literally – no one – from his native UK would look at him romantically. Retching as a gag reflex does put a damper on things, I suppose.

    What is surprising is why this “Derbyshire” then feels entitled to talk about race matters in any way. Maybe some deep seated knowledge of being a utter failure and trying his best to prove otherwise. Maybe that’s why he speaks in glowing terms of his insect-bride in the same breath as ranting about ethnic matters generally.

    Dunno. A few hundred years ago, people like him surely would not even show their faces in public – out of sheer embarassment of being married to a chinawoman.

    • Replies: @Liza
    , @ERM
    , @Miro23
    , @anonymous
  55. @Huck

    Ya. They benefitted from our stupidity and arrogance.

    However, from what I’ve seen I’m not so impressed with most Chinese people. Combined with their low birthrates, it’s likely that they are nothing but a blip on the radar.

    Who am I worried about? India and Africa.

  56. Liza says:
    @foobc1

    He was not embarrassed to marry a Chinese woman. Neither was he ashamed to write a little story for all of us to read where he was having sex with his English girlfriend back in the 60s while her parents slept upstairs and then, for reasons unknown to me, informed us that he threw his just-used condom into the bushes on the way down the street. Ah, the 1960s. What a time.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  57. ERM says:
    @foobc1

    Are you unaware of how ugly British women are?

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  58. Lin says:
    @Agent76

    What’s the big deal about demolition of church buildings? That Chinese church was apparently built without proper authorization. (St. Bonaventure in Fairhill mid-demolition in 2013. The Edwin Forrest Durang-designed church was 120 years old.)
    I’m a Christian of alternative conviction and I definitely don’t want to be a sheep under God the Shepherd as Psalm 23 says because shepherds slaughter sheeps for meat and hide.
    Crucifix as Christian symbol is overhyped. Probably 100s of 1000s were crucified by the romans, many of them were just ordinary criminals. (If ancient Judea wasn’t under roman occupation, the Pharisees might have stoned Jesus to death instead. Many Christians don’t even know Messiah is the title of the jewish king and calling Jesus Messiah was usurpation)
    ………..
    2016 was an anniv. of an ancient saint with Augustine the famous theologian counted among his disciples. Jesus? Yes,but there is another one. According to Hong Kong writer Jin Yong the Chinese MING dynasty was named after Mani / Manichaeus / 摩 尼 216–276 AD

    Lord of the Rings, Star Wars are said to be Manichaean themed

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism#Life_of_Mani

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mani_(prophet)

    • Replies: @Lin
    , @Agent76
  59. Agent76 says:

    Oct 7, 2019 Chinese man creates enchanting dance to sell chili pepper

    A staff member at a chilli pepper store in southwestern China’s Sichuan province created an enchanting spice dance to attract more customers.

  60. Whitewolf says:
    @Smith

    It can’t possibly be worse than CNN. Even if they tried their hardest to make it worse.

  61. Lin says:
    @Lin

    (Ooh, I forgot to mention Manichaeus, like Spartacus, was also crucified)
    I suggest to the nations of the world to introduce/restore crucification as punishment for certain non lethal crimes.
    Crucuification didn’t always kill. The condemned often died as a result of breeding, dehydration, asphyxiation, flogging…Jesus was stabbed. Some even say Jesus survived crucification rather than rised from the dead. Every year, a number of philipino RC fanatics enacted the ‘passion play’ of crucification in public and survived.

    I suggest non-fatal crucification(from 3 hrs to 3 days in public view) for the following criminals:

    1)Fanatical christians who committed non-lethal hate crimes against non-christians—This way,they could boost after the sentence they ‘resurrected’ jesus style and deepen their pride.

    2)Repeated offenders of certain crimes like drug dealing, mugging..—To force them to appreciate how Jesus went through the crucification pain to save their souls.

    3)Offenders of ethnic groups whose ancestors were victims of slavery—They could also have their pride/dignity reinforced since Spartacus, the slave liberation icon was also crucified

    Sure all the nailing and the subsequent sentence duration will be administered by medical pros to avoid major blood vessels, excessive breeding and infection.

  62. @Liza

    He would have been in his teens or early twenties at that time. For a very young man or woman to behave that way is sort of understandable. Youth is a time of sexual folly, so to speak.

    In general, Derbyshire seems to have been a rakish immigrant. He once took LSD in the United States. His youth was one of drifting from country to country and working sometimes illegally.

    And then at approaching forty he had an affair with a 20 year old student as an English teacher in China-causing a semi-scandal.

    Derbyshire was a bit of a heel in his younger years. Flighty, two-sided, not unacquainted with the lowlife, promiscuous, easily bored.

    He entered the IT business fairly early on and seemingly prospered from it.

    Derbyshire does not seem to have a great deal of depth. He’s vaguely superficial.

    • Disagree: RadicalCenter
  63. Agent76 says:
    @Lin

    Thank you for your time and comment. I will never to pretend to be more informed than others. As a older man I have a desire for allot information on a wide variety of worldly data. I hope you have a great and blessed day!

    Jul 31, 2018 How Africa is Becoming China’s China

    • Replies: @Lin
  64. SafeNow says:

    Paul Theroux is the greatest travel writer of modern times, and I recommend his 1988 Iron Rooster trip through China as an important, and perhaps definitive, work, still. But Mr. D has a knack for telling observations, encounters, and place descriptions, and I enjoyed this informative and interesting travelogue. Thank you. (By the way, I hadn’t heard “boxing the compass” since that old Walter Matthau movie in which the gal with a round bed asks him which direction he will situate himself in to make love to her. He replies “I plan on boxing the compass.”)

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  65. Miro23 says:
    @foobc1

    One feels does pity that literally – no one – from his native UK would look at him romantically. Retching as a gag reflex does put a damper on things, I suppose.

    Well, Derb looks to me very much like an English gentleman. The problem is, that there aren’t many of them about, so you’ve not only been intellectually dumbed down, you’ve also been visually dumbed down.

    BTW foobc1 – what have you contributed to society?

  66. Lin says:
    @Agent76

    Thank you.

    That ‘How Africa is Becoming China’s China’ video means little other than trade relation and market and china has excessive industrial capacity to spare so it’s just exchanging infrastructure for raw material and market. Two important aspects I would like to point out that
    1)china didn’t try to interfere with internal matters of African countries..
    2)China shows the africans an alternative way to develop.
    ………………..
    (If you’re interested in religions, I posted the followings before here and there)
    I’m a Christian of alternative conviction in the sense I revere Jesus as the greatest ever moral giant(not that I completely agree with him.)
    Some issues:
    –What does it mean by Jesus being the only begotten Son of God?Some possibilities,take your pick:
    *The old Greco-Roman pagan tradition of gods procreated with humans. Jesus was a demigod
    *Jesus was the outcome of a gene splitting/cloning experiment of the very powerful extra-terrestrial alien entity known as Yahweh.
    *It’s a metaphor.

    –Who were responsible for the crucification of Jesus?
    Judea was in turmoil and under roman military occupation; King Herod was said to be immoral. Jewish nationalists/Zealots were gathering strength

    There were 3 parties responsible for Jesus’s crucification:
    (One VERY IMPORTANT point many Christians are ignorant about and the average pastors/priests seldom mention: Messiah/Mashiach was the title of the Jewish king then. When the Pharisee brought Jesus to be judged by the Roman governor,they said this was the man they called the king of the jews)
    1)The jewish king&jewish theocrazy. They were puppets of the Romans, much like ancient version of Saudis but without the oil. Israel as a theocratic state fit their power scheme.
    2)The Romans. They weren’t particularly interested in the internal politics of the jews but they preferred to placate the jewish king and the theocracy. They were the executioner, no more no less.
    3)Jesus’s followers. Jesus was a jewish nationalist no doubt but he was not interested in bloody revolution. Because of his sublime teaching, he attracted a large following and the zealots recognized his potential as a rallying focus and wanted him to lead an uprising.
    …………
    So they kept calling him the Messiah/Mashiach. Jesus always took a ‘spiritual outlook’ and said his kingdom was not of this world. Jesus didn’t reject nor accept this Messiah/Mashiach title squarely, kind of fussy, expected from a person who used mostly ‘spiritual’ jargons. However the jewish king and the Pharisee saw him as a great threat to their power and they tried to persuade the Romans that Jesus was a rebel leader who threatened Roman supremacy. The Romans also want to placate client Judea King Herod. So, OK, crucify him. crucification is the kind of execution mainly preserved for those who threatened Rome, like Spartacus. Jesus to the pharasees was a heretic punishable by stoning to death. But because of Jesus’s large following, they dared not accusing Jesus of heresy and instead persuaded the Romans as executioner. I would say the jewish nationalist militants were the second party, after king Herod and the pharasees, responsible for jesus’s crucification.

    • Replies: @Agent76
  67. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:

    One thing I can’t understand about John Derbyshire, he’s travelled around the world and seen all the good places where one can live. Why does he choose to live anywhere near New York? I can think of 1000 places in the United States that are cheaper, more pleasant and have a better climate. There are 1000’s of places in the world that are superior also. Perhaps the smell of urine in the subway smells like roses to him.

  68. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @foobc1

    Given the choice between these two pictures I can understand why he picked the latter.

    • LOL: Biff
  69. A recent entymological classification:

    WHITE LIBERALS=SUBHUMAN FILTHY FUCKING COCKROACHES

  70. anonymous[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dutch Boy

    China’s elite share the same genes with the majority Chinese, the “elite” in the United States do not share the genes of the majority of the population. They are aliens in every sense of the word.

  71. SafeNow says:
    @anonymous

    LOL. But good point. As a Californian, with the opportunity to observe a large population of Chinese immigrants, I would add a constellation of desirable NON-physical attributes. Decency, intelligence, industriousness, and fair-mindedness, among many others. It always saddens me when Mr. D is subjected to criticism for having been attracted to the mate that he was, for these critics are very wrong.

  72. onebornfree says: • Website

    Concentration Camp Survivors: China Using Forced Sterilization, Abortion for Genocide:

    “Women who have survived China’s concentration camps for Muslim ethnic minorities reported widespread rape, forced abortions, forced sterilization, and other extreme sexual human rights atrocities in accounts published this weekend.

    Speaking to the Washington Post, the women echo the experiences of others who have escaped the estimated thousands of concentration camps built in Xinjiang, China’s largest and westernmost province, to house Uighur, Kazakh, and Kyrgyz ethnic people. While survivors tend to be Kazakh – they can use their dual citizenship to escape to neighboring Kazakhstan – the majority of the 1 to 3 million people trapped in the camps are believed to be Uighurs. Others who have survived have been able to use their marital status to citizens of Pakistan or other neighboring countries to place pressure on Beijing to release them……”:

    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/10/07/concentration-camp-survivors-china-using-forced-sterilization-abortion-for-genocide/

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @BlackDragon
  73. @Dutch Boy

    I simply swoon with envy when The Party executes corrupt public officials.

  74. ricpic says:

    With a Total Fertility Rate of 1.5 or possibly even 1.2 China is not about to conquer the world despite our Ruling Class’ need to have an enemy.

  75. @anonymous

    Yes, let’s restore our fertility with White Women!!! Finding one that even PASSABLY (a grade of C-) acceptable of motherhood and partnership will probably take so long that you will be in a wheelchair by the time the kid finishes high school.

    Asian, Eurasian is OK. Peaches not available? I’ll take a plum.

    https://www.ranker.com/list/drunk-chicks-white-girl-wasted/ron-mexico

  76. Agent76 says:
    @Lin

    As a born again Christian and a reader of the Bible you are spot target that Herod and the pharisees are responsible for jesus’s crucification. I always challenge those who make assumptions what scripture says.

    Thank you once again with your engagement! This is also a great source on Chinia I have had for over a year.

    Oct 7, 2019 Hong Kong on Brink of Totalitarianism | China Uncensored

    Protesters say the government is unaccountable to the people. And that leaves pro-democracy legislators like Tanya Chan vulnerable. As Beijing tries to purge politicians not loyal to the Party line, is there hope for Hong Kong?

    • Replies: @BlackDragon
    , @Lin
  77. @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree, I totally agree with you. I also am married to Chinese wife. You have a far better understanding of China than John Derbyshire , who married to a Chinese should STUDY Chinese history (I dont mean Mao) I mean China’s historical (Confucianist) bureaucracy (based on merit not birth right), which outshone the Western King Monarchist system of western Europe which was derived from ancient Roman barbarianism. (My mothers cousin was a world expert on Rome). Mao is the most demonized leader outside the west. NO Mao wasnt Stalin or Hitler! Sure he made mistakes but fixing China after WW2 and the remnants of the opium wars was a rather difficult job.
    Although he realises that there are good things his stupid China govt bashing is a bit annoying.
    I agree with you, there is even encouragement to complain about the govt (esp if you expose local corruption).
    America recently banned Kevin Barret and others for wanting to attend the New Horizon conference, in Beirut, that happened to be founded by an Iranian organization, just because Iran is (illegally) sanctioned. Great country Amerika! Love it!!! / sarc

    • Agree: BlackDragon
  78. @anonymous

    Stop trying to confuse us with quality, traditionalism, intelligence, reserve, and femininity.

    Probably, in today’s world, a man will have a better statistical chance of a solid marriage with children with an Asian women than Western chunk. If you find a virtuous real woman in the West, that is just fine. Do not think of Asian women as second in line or a consolation prize. Eastern European women, in large part, are Eurasian anyway-Poles, Hungarians, Russians, Bulgarians, etc.

    Remember: “It’s my life…..” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx_ccpYv6Bc&frags=pl%2Cwn

    https://www.google.com/search?q=famous+eurasians&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6ppP3nYvlAhUOoZ4KHWqJCBAQ_AUIESgB&biw=1317&bih=789

    • Replies: @Miro23
  79. onebornfree says: • Website

    South Park Creators Respond To China Banning Show
    Episode mocking Chicom censorship results in blacklisting of entire show:

    “In an epic example of irony, the legendary cartoon South Park has been banned from the entire country of China after an episode called “Band in China” mocked the communist government’s role in censoring Hollywood.

    The same Chinese entities who want to stop any negative press about the country, especially its government, have now done their best to purge all things South Park from the internet.

    Finding a clip of the Comedy Central program on China’s infamously regulated internet is nearly impossible with every clip, episode and even online discussions about the show being deleted……”:

    https://www.newswars.com/south-park-creators-respond-to-china-banning-show/

    Regards, onebornfree

  80. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Do you have information that refutes OneBornFree’s information, Biff? I would trust Lew Rockwell over Godfree Roberts and his Comm-in-tards any day of the lunar cycle

    Lolbertarians are having an existential crises.

    Here is Pat Buchanan wondering if China is the future:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/pat-buchanan-dares-ask-china-country-future

    Excerpt:
    But the first necessity is to toss out the ideological liberalism which proclaims that David Ricardo’s free trade dogmatism is truth for all nations at all times and that John Locke’s ideas apply to all cultures and countries.

    To answer a question with a question, where is Pat wrong? Lolbertarianism free trade dogma has been proven incorrect by the only thing that matters…. the real world.

    Also, it is more Lolbertarianism to apply universal principles to all tribes of man.

    The harsh reality is that differing tribes of people have different habits and customs, and YES racial differences due to biology and evolution.

    The tardism actually runs deep on the Lolbertarian side.

    The west doesn’t have to adopt Chinese style social credit, but it is more than clear that Western Plutocracy (which Lolbertarians make excuses for) is doing the same thing, only it is through free-dumb of corporations. Spying by Google and censorship by corporations is no different than Chinese social credit, and in fact may be more arbitrary and dystopian.

    • Agree: FB, utu
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  81. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    Dear Mr. Roberts…

    You need remember that this ‘author’ is a ‘good old anglo constitutionalist’…where ‘rational government’‘personal liberties’ and blah blah blah…all flourish quite splendidly in the imaginations of mushroom eaters who like to squawk about ‘Chicoms’‘gangster cliques’…and ‘race realism’…

    Now here’s the funny part…

    When King Bezos…Bill Gates and the rest of the plutocrats get together at Davos or Bilderberg…one wonders what they do for laughs…?

    Can we imagine them pulling out clippings from ridiculous plebian scribes waxing fancifully about glorious ‘personal liberties’…‘open debate’… and ‘rational government’…?

    …thus sending each other into fits of roaring laughter…slapping those thick Davos armchairs while howling…

    ‘HOW THE FUCK DO BONEHEADS LIKE THIS STILL EXIST IN THE GENE POOL…’

    [Unlike those wise Peking street dogs that have learned to cope with traffic…LOLOLOL]

    • LOL: MAOWASAYALI
    • Replies: @BlackFlag
  82. @Agent76

    These rioter criminals wrecking HK are part of the usual ‘color revolution’ attempt funded by Soros and the NED and CIA. Grow up you idiot! HK people would and want to be managed from China not from the useless left over empire of the sun (British rule).
    ‘Oct 7, 2019 Hong Kong on Brink of Totalitarianism’ THATS what British rule was , Totalitarianism!

    • Replies: @Agent76
    , @Bill Jones
  83. @onebornfree

    Breitbart is a weapon of the CIA! Disinformation machine, Get a life!

    • Agree: Miro23
  84. @Achmed E. Newman

    Who is Lew Rockwell? Why should I trust him if he cannot even figure out how many capitalism killed? The capitalist/imperialist WW1 and WW2 alone killed 120 million people, not to mention the tens of millions killed by imperialism/colonialism. Even as late as 1990s, “shock therapy” caused millions of premature deaths in Russia.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  85. @Agent76

    China never had a religion like the west. It was an atheistic civilisation. No philosophy was religious unlike the west (middle eastern religions). Mao supported muslims , there are 60 million in China!
    The emperor Qian Long told the Jesuit priests from Macau (Portugals attempt to force Christianity on China) to ‘We dont need your religion in China’, (Note Also in Japan Christianity was limited to Nagasaki). The Asians werent stupid enough not to realise what the westerners were up to as in South America, we know how that went..how about a few burnings at the stake?

    • Replies: @Lin
    , @WhiteCoper
  86. @last straw

    Take these questions and comments to your next Party meeting, Mr. Straw. Maybe you can all get together and “struggle against” Lew Rockwell with big character posters and pig’s blood.

  87. Lin says:
    @Agent76

    Praise Jesus ! And thank you. Maranatha !
    Those riots are the handiworks of about 1000 radicals propaganda and financially aided by outside interests.
    HK economy has the following major components:
    1)Banking
    2)Real estates (housing cost is crazy there, imagine one has a mortgage to pay and the value of the property is being hurted..)
    3)Tourism
    HK no longer has manufacturing industry, not even SW industry.
    The average HKers simply are disgusted by those enfant terribles; imagine one has a shop inside a mall, paying very expensive rent and the business was interrupted by those people. One doesn’t need to be ideological to see the point.

  88. Truth says:
    @anonymous

    One being, he’s a race traitor?

  89. @MEFOBILLS

    I don’t disagree with too much of that, except for your silly misunderstanding of Libertarianism. As far as your last sentence, no, it’s not quite the same. One can opt out of the Goolag and the Facebooks and that. If you are on Facebook, Mefo, then YOU are part of the problem.

    Then, we get to the smartphones and the NSA and all that. It’s about at the level of the Orwellian Social Credit business. It’s hard to even do business or live without a smart phone or even flip phone (though more simplistic and a relief from the incessant upgrading and touch-screen BS of a smartphone, ANY working phone will probably have a non-disablable GPS chip, though I’m no expert on this). Living without it IS possible – a family member of mine does.

    The deprecation of cash, however, is THE big step toward the Mark-o-the-Beast type situation. Mr. Derbyshire is right on that. It’s downright sick.

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
    , @silviosilver
  90. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    Mao was emphatic about it…

    When you have not probed a problem and know nothing of its essentials, or looked into the present facts and their history, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense.

    Which would neatly explain why we are making such astounding ‘progress’ here on UNZ…LOL

  91. Agent76 says:
    @BlackDragon

    For one thing you do know me or my knowledge and for you to attack me with childish acts and words says allot more about you than myself.

    “The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.” Friedrich Nietzsche

    • Replies: @BlackDragon
  92. Now, for Mr. D here again, since you are pretty observant and this is kind of in your wheelhouse with your writing about American and Chinese cultures, I have a question, and then my observations.

    What do you think of the young only-child Chinese people? Do you think they are spoiled? What is the story from the family members and old acquaintances about this, if you all talked about children at all?

    What I have seen and observed from primary sources, is that, because Chinese parents, even of the middle class, both* work their asses off, many of the children born since the 1990’s or so were raised by grandparents for large portions of the day. (Some of these grandparents, then, raised a bunch of kids before the 1-child policy, then raise grandchildren too!) Now, these kids had 6 adults around, meaning lots of attention.

    There is the good spoiling, like only the best music lessons, tutoring for school, etc, but then the spoiling that naturally goes with one kid, and worse, with the attention of 6 adults, 4 of them grandparents (we all know how grandparents are).

    Maybe you can write about your observations regarding Chinese child-raising in another column.

    .

    * Yes, Chinese Communism had a big feminist element to it. “We’re all the same, Comrades, working for the wonderful Socialist State.”, that kind of thing. They’ve lost the rice-bowl haircuts and Chairman Mao jackets (“We’ve got BOTH kinds of jackets – blue AND gray.”) , so there’s that. However, the idea of a woman raising kids at home and not helping the “economy” (official GDP) does not seem to be desired, from my observations.

  93. Lin says:
    @BlackDragon

    It was an atheistic civilisation.

    Chinese civilization was not atheist. It is practical and secular. Even now, with the possible exception of muslims, the majority of the more religious Chinese did not inherit their religions from their parents.
    The average person the world over don’t know enough regarding the fine details of ‘theism’ ,’atheism’, ‘agnosticism’.
    Many Chinese Marxists have the habbit on their death beds saying they’re going to meet Marx.
    To me, Karl Marx was the last of the corps of Jewish prophets.

    • Replies: @BlackDragon
  94. Tusk says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I find it odd that all the people I know that were positive about China, learnt Mandarin, and went over for work were to ones who came back disillusioned and diswayed about ever going to China again. Meanwhile, ‘Mr Roberts’ apparently lives in Thailand, not China. I’ve never seen both a non-Chinese national nor a person not even living in China constantly spew the most bizarre walls of text with odd references bother to defend China online 24/7 for free. Either your boomer brain has reached critical mass and you have some form of dementia causing you to act so oddly or you’re getting paid.

    • Agree: TKK
    • Replies: @Vidi
  95. TKK says:
    @anonymous

    If you believe that is what the majority of Chinese women look like, especially after 35, you are in for a big surprise.

    An English Rose is hard to beat.

    But don’t be too hard on those lower class British girls. They have been gang raped by “East Asians” and no one gave a damn but Tommy Robinson, replaced by their society by Indians and have to wade through so much PC bulls*t, no wonder they drink.

    Many have good hearts. I know they pack on the pounds, but in every dusty corner of the world I have gone, there is inevitably a plump, good natured British gal who would literally give you the shirt off her back, and just wants a good chat or bit of attention.

    A Chinese woman? She wants to see tax returns, bank statements and is a ruthless mercenary regarding income and status. They are an extremely xenophobic race. They only date Gweilo for specific reasons: money, opportunity and prestige.

    They prefer their own race. If one is angling for you, tell her you have lost all your money and see how fast she blocks you on WeChat.

    • Replies: @Liza
    , @Poupon Marx
    , @Rex Little
  96. @Herald

    There was no America before Europeans arrived. There was a vast wilderness, 95% unoccupied.

    The people make the place, not the other way around.

  97. @BlackDragon

    Mao supported muslims , there are 60 million in China!

    What nonsense. 60 million in China? The uighurs and hui constitute the majority of muslims, and they’re about 10 mil each. So that makes 20 million. There aren’t much muslims outside of those two populations. Those that are, are a smattering dotted here and there and scattered over China. So at most maybe 25 million muslims in total in China, or maybe 30 mil, if I’m being generous with you, which I don’t mind doing.

    • Replies: @BlackDragon
  98. @Jeff Stryker

    Trash. You are wrong on this. Go back to your Fuji bashing diatribes.

  99. Tusk says:

    I wonder if Comrade Roberts will address the Chinese history of Cannibalism? This isn’t even a recent phenomenon, but instead Chinese history!

    There are ancient stories of Government officials boiling their children for their masters from the BC period,[1] but even in Romance of the Three Kingdoms is it mentioned. Though we should mention it was of course common during the Cultural Revolution, in which people often roasted the livers of their enemies:

    “This was not cannibalism because of economic difficulties, like during famine,” X.L. Ding, a Cultural Revolution expert at the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology… It was not caused by economic reasons, it was caused by political events, political hatred, political ideologies, political rituals.”[2] Zheng Yi wrote in 2001 that the cooking, and smell of, human flesh was common around ‘campuses, in hospitals…canteens of various Governmental units”.

    Let us not forget the important words of T’ao Tsung-Yi who said “Childrens meat was the best food of all in taste”[4] I find it hard to believe Cannibalism was common in China, though it was common in stories (chinese projection?) it seems a bit fanciful. Though according to Brezhnev the Chinese quite enjoyed the taste of human.[5] Even Chinese citizens don’t deny the history of Cannibalism, as Tsai Yun-Chu posited during his PhD dissertation that Chinese cannibalism was both literal and figurative.[6]

    Perhaps Chinese feelings on cannibalism are masochistic in nature? After being dominated by the Mongols and the Manchu, the average Chinese citizen is filled with the desire to be ‘consumed’. This history of cannibalism within the artistic desire of the Chinese mind is a long one.[7] Students barbecuing teachers says everything you need to know about the Chinese mentality that emerged, and now rules, from that period in time.[8]

    I apologise for not having any graphs or charts in my post, the CCP hasn’t provided me with any (Please get them to respond to my emails Comrade Roberts!) but I think all my sources prove that there is indeed a wonderful historic trend of the Chinese population engaging in consommation érotiqueof human flesh.

    [1]https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E6%98%93%E7%89%99?fr=aladdin
    [2]https://www.hindustantimes.com/world/china-suppresses-horrific-history-of-cannibalism/story-6hbxXBtvWf9LSIS0yaYlIM.html
    [3]Schutt, Bill. 2017. Eat Me: A Natural and Unnatural History of Cannibalism. New York: Algonquin Books.
    [4]Ibid.
    [5]GPD. 1982. Of Cannibals and Socialists. Economic and Political Weekly .Vol. 17, No. 17/18 , p. 715.
    [6]Tsai, Yun-Chu. 2016. You Are Whom You Eat. California: University of California.
    [7] Rojas, Carlos. 2002. Cannibalism and the Chinese Body Politic: Hermeneutics and Violence in Cross-Cultural Perception. Florida: University of Florida.
    [8]Sutton, Donald. 1995. Consuming Counterrevolution: The Ritual and Culture of Cannibalism in Wuxuan, Guangxi, China, May to July 1968. Comparative Studies in Society and History. Vol. 37, No. 1pp. 136-172.

    • Troll: d dan
  100. Miro23 says:
    @Poupon Marx

    Stop trying to confuse us with quality, traditionalism, intelligence, reserve, and femininity.

    Probably, in today’s world, a man will have a better statistical chance of a solid marriage with children with an Asian women than Western chunk. If you find a virtuous real woman in the West, that is just fine. Do not think of Asian women as second in line or a consolation prize. Eastern European women, in large part, are Eurasian anyway-Poles, Hungarians, Russians, Bulgarians, etc.

    Check out Eurasian Nancy Kwan in “The World of Suzie Wong”. And unforgettable images of 1960 Hong Kong.

  101. Liza says:
    @TKK

    A Chinese woman? She wants to see tax returns, bank statements and is a ruthless mercenary regarding income and status. They are an extremely xenophobic race. They only date Gweilo for specific reasons: money, opportunity and prestige

    When you marry a Chinese woman, you are marrying the whole family (maybe the ancestors, too) and you will soon enough find out what that entails. Any white man who bitches about fat, aggressive, demanding, white feminist women has lots to learn. And if he tends to have bad luck, he’ll get his education from an oriental woman.

  102. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I wonder why I find that I have to be ready with several VPNs whenever I go visit, as each time some (or all in the case of last time) were blocked and I couldn’t access any of my favorite websites, including even zerohedge. Just like in the US and elsewhere, it is standard practice to mold the popular consciousness and limit the extent of their knowledge and curiosity, but the PRC is quite blunt about it, or so I’ve felt over there!

    One can be free to express oneself so long as the range of thoughts and actions are within controlled bounds, to somewhat paraphrase Orwell.

    Regarding ol’ Derb, he’s entitled to his platonic ideal of a rational, constitutional state which never was and never will be, but nevertheless it is probably a better goal than an absolutist state headed by a philosopher king.

  103. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t disagree with too much of that, except for your silly misunderstanding of Libertarianism.

    Your right about cash. We need cash, that way people can be independent of predators.

    With regards to libertarianism, you are wrong. There are predators within government AND within the private sector.

    Libertarianism is dangerous because it paints a false picture of reality, and worse gives cover and sanction for bad actors.

    The pattern of debts mounting, and plutocracy “taking over” occurs repeatedly thoughout history, and this is a privateer phenomena.

    Here is our some excerpts from Hudson, a classical economist and monetary historian:

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/04/the-delphic-oracle-was-their-davos-a-four-part-interview-with-michael-hudson-a-new-reality-economics-curriculum-is-needed-part-4.html

    The key is the concept of wealth addiction and how it leads to hubris — arrogance that seeks to increase power in ways that hurt other people. Hubris is not merely over-reaching; it is socially injurious. The wealthy or power injure other people knowingly, to establish their power and status.

    That is what Aristophanes meant when his characters say that wealth is not like bananas or lentil soup. Wealth has no object but itself. Wealth is status — and also political control. The creditor’s wealth is the debtor’s liability. The key to its dynamic is not production and consumption, but assets and liabilities — the economy’s balance sheet. Wealth and status in the sense of who/whom. It seeks to increase without limit, and Socrates and Aristotle found the major example to be creditors charging interest for lending “barren” money. Interest had to be paid out of the debtor’s own product, income or finally, forfeiture of property; creditors did not provide means of making interest to pay off the loan.

    This is the opposite of Austrian School theories that interest is a bargain to share the gains to be made from the loan “fairly” between creditor and debtor. It also is the opposite of neoclassical price theory. The economics taught in universities today is based on a price theory that does not even touch on this point. The liberty that oligarchs claim is the right to indebt the rest of society and then demand full payment or forfeiture of the debtor’s collateral. This leads to massive expropriations, as did the Junk Mortgage foreclosures after 2008 when President Obama failed to write down debts to realistic market values for real estate financed on loans far beyond the buyer’s ability to pay. The result was 10 million foreclosures.

    Lolbertarianism is dangerous because it ensares well meaning people in cul-de-sacs of bad thought. It is junk economics and junk philosophy. And do I need to bring up the fact that its originators are of (((suspicious))) character?

  104. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Half-Jap

    Regarding ol’ Derb, he’s entitled to his platonic ideal of a rational, constitutional state which never was and never will be,

    Hungary’s constitutional kingdom lasted nearly 1000 years in one form or another.

    It started around the Year 1000 with Stephen 1’st (now St. Stephen) and lasted up through the Treaty of Trianon.

    Trianon was similar to Versaille treaty, as Hungary was punished with debts and forfeitures to foreign creditors for siding with Germany. Hungary fell from without, not from within.

    In other words, there have been rational constitutional states on the planet in the past, and Derby is not just blowing smoke.

    It takes a monolithic population that has a similar world-view, women are not allowed to vote, and a benevolent patriarchy is in charge.

    Of course, not everything was smooth sailing all the time, what with man being an animal of imperfect design. Hungary was also mostly successful dealing with its internal Jew problem, and Muslim incursions over a long span of time.

  105. Most of the white males who check the box: Has Asian Wife, display highly flawed character. They meet them at school, they never took any risks. Darb was a gangsta-ass honky about it tho. He went to China, back in the early 80s when it was still a hard Maoist/Leninist state, and straight up stole a 20 year old hawtie. That’s bad ass, really, stealing a women from a communist society. I guess the only way to top that today would be to steal a bride from North Korea or do some feat of strength in Mongolia or Tuva to steal/earn a woman.

  106. @WhiteCoper

    It doesnt matter that number. Muslim rights for food customs were given under Mao. fact.

  107. @Lin

    There was only local po sa as in Guan Ying and other regional deities. There was no one all seeing god or other form in Chinese culture. Only the ‘Tian’ Heaven which is referred to a natural god as the ‘Di’ the earth. (in Beijing the Di Tan, Tian Tan.
    There is nothing like the terrible Yahweh in Judiasm.
    So it is a form as atheism meaning no one deity.
    As for so called Marksist that is a straw man.

    Many China haters on here .well I say to them just stay away from the place then, why do you continually bash China? Look in your own back yard. Oh if you like, try living in Saudi Arabia where they have public beheadings!!!!

    • Replies: @Lin
  108. @Agent76

    The same goes for you. I dont care what you know. None of my remarks were about YOU it was what you said. You dont know my background either.

    • Replies: @Agent76
  109. Beijinger says:

    I am not a Party member, I don’t know the author in person, so I think I might be even more franker, I honestly don’t have to pretend to be not much interested to any Laowai for any courtesy or language reasons.

    The Social Credit system?
    It’s something exit here but the majority here don’t feel the existence, so let it be if the Party decided to go for it. It must be well designed to do something good to the people since the majority aspects of majority people’s life is getting improved. Yes, we just trust our government that much. High density population with good governance make a nice working organization, which is exactly what we need to be to keep a peace and prosperous environment.
    In another side, many white guys lives in low density world who naturally enjoy much more space than us keep saying a lot about this social credit system seems as if they care about privacy and worries about 1984.
    Well, I think there is a possibility that these guys somehow get the feeling of being a bit more related to criminals and anarchist, deep down in their heart they are fighting for their right and freedom to be a criminal someday sooner or later so they won’t get caught and punished. They unconsciously want to overthrow their government and break their country into pieces. They should not be blamed since their government and country doesn’t stand at their benefit. Something went wrong.

    The Great Firewall of China?
    In my off-line life, if any foreigner ask me the Chinese Great Firewall thing, I would politely tell them because our language is already a bigger wall for anyone to climb in or climb out, and our population is big enough to support a single language small net-world away with the mainstream world-net-world.

    But, heck, it’s online here, how about some true feelings:
    I don’t know whether CCP is clever or lucky, possibly both so that they did it way ahead with this wall thing.
    Now we see it clearly that Net-world is already a much more authoritarianism world than the real world where science and technology worked as a huge magnifying glass that USA dominance power in the real world is much more enhanced in the Net-world. Well, our generation live more and more of our life time in the Net-world. But if there is a map for the Net-world, you get the idea simply by just checking out the biggest IT companies and the unicorns, there are two powers in Net-world: USA and China. Anyone else?

    As Chinese, what do we feel about the Great Firewall of China? What do we feel about our Great Wall in history? It protect us. It protected our industry for the early development. It protected our people from the universe-truth-brainwash from other country.
    Even in the Net-world, we’d rather be ruled and brainwashed by our own people who live among us, breath the same air and speaks the same language.
    For those free folks who won’t be ruled nor brainwashed, wall means nothing to them. At proper times, people and country also means nothing to them, they are somehow rich in minds and money, they can support themselves as an individual without these ancient identity. They go beyond our time, they are world citizens, universe citizens. They belong to no people, no country. They don’t need the any ancient bound like it. They are the future. But currently (possibly till next millennium), they are just parasites liars and traitors.
    As to us, the majority primitive gregarious ones, as long as there are still differences to distinct people and country, we stand at our own side, forever.
    Yes, we just love our country. How damned.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  110. Biff says:
    @Tusk

    I wonder if Comrade Roberts will address the Chinese history of Cannibalism?

    Soylent Green is made in Milwaukee – by Mexicans.

  111. @Beijinger

    You’ve have come to love Big Brother, Pekinger.. Did they sic the rat on you? No thanks, we’re armed to the teeth here, and IMO, that 1984 stuff will only go so far here. It is getting implemented too quickly, which is a big mistake, as there are still too many who remember freedom.

    • Replies: @MEFOBILLS
  112. @Tusk

    I don’t think we have much to worry about regarding modern Chinese cannibalism, Tusk. Any Chinaman you may meet selling human beings for consumption is very likely to be selling fake human beings, made out of plastic, play-dough, concrete dust, and sewer grease. Bon appetit, boys!

    Good luck getting your money back.

  113. @TKK

    Your grotesque generalization and baseless characterizations are of such low quality and infantile, that what you have said indicates your low character and lack of integrity and experience.

    You are in all likelihood a slob and poltroon for whom a programmed slab side sweat hog or college programmed air head deserves you and vice versa.

    If you or anyone does not know or has not the knowledge or experience, you should avoid embarrassing yourself.

  114. Lin says:
    @BlackDragon

    why do you continually bash China?

    Look, you obviously haven’t studied religions the way I had nor you know what you’re talking about.
    Regarding being hated. I love being hated. The Yanks consider size,be it military,economics,techR&D…, as enemy, like the former USSR during the cold war, Japan(which is still under US military occupation)in the 80s&90s, and now china. I read that in 19th century and before WW1, the yanks were actually hostile to Britain.
    http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/british/brit-3.html
    ………..
    Ever since the Korean war, china has been for most of the time,under the mortal threat of at least one superpower. China has survived geopolitical Darwinist challenges and getting better .
    Hate is like a cup of morning coffee to stimulate and to stay alert.

  115. zogborg says:

    Southern Chinese need to be exterminated. Never seen a more pathetic, effeminate, cowardly group of people in my life, not to mention their sorry excuse for languages that literally sound like “ching chong ling long”

  116. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    No thanks, we’re armed to the teeth here, and IMO, that 1984 stuff will only go so far here. It is getting implemented too quickly, which is a big mistake, as there are still too many who remember freedom.

    What is freedom?

    Free-dumb is a concept that is bandied about without examination.

    Nobody is really free. You are born into a construct of the world, which was put into place prior to your arrival. It was built by your ancestors, and most people largely accept what they see and hear around them.

    Your degrees of freedom are limited when they infringe on the rights of others. The concept of a third party inserting themselves into two way relations of man goes back to the beginning of time.

    We have always selected, elected, chosen, etc. , some sort of King or authority to settle our disagreements. This happens naturally when two parties cannot resolve their problem.

    How is that free-dumb going for dumb-ocracy, where you get to vote for the candidate chosen for you buy plutocrats. Where the owned press fills your head with false narrative? Where the most uniformed voters of society can be manipulated emotionally by propaganda. How about the owned politicians where the donor class has compromat and controls said politicians with threats or bribes, etc?

    In the West, which is now a Kakistocracy (run by the worst kind of people – string pullers from behind the scenes), all kinds of nefarious plots can be hatched. In China at least, the bad actors are found out and jailed or killed.

    Sorry lolbertarians, free-dumb is only in your mind. China’s industrial capitalism combined with sovereign money is a winning combination that cannot be overcome. China’s king is a communist government that measures itself on its performance and the public is happy with their government for the most part.

    • Agree: utu
  117. @Half-Jap

    I’ve been to Chongqing, neither zero hedge or UNZ is censored -although videos are- but that may be a technical issue.

  118. denk says:

    JD

    *I have no illusions about the ChiComs. I know their methods and their history. I’m a good old Anglo-Saxon constitutionalist.
    I loathe the gangster CCP regime for its cruelty and lies’

    So say another perfidious albion , hailing from the world’s no 1 rogue state.

    Can we ask…..
    if there’s a word in English for “embarrassment“?

    http://web.archive.org/web/20030204184834/http://members.aol.com/superogue/intro.htm

  119. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    YOu got it ass backwards genius,
    we dont have to refute anything,
    YOu’r supposed to prove your accusations.

    onebornfreak is a nutcase., I consider anything he come up with B.S. until proven otherwise.

  120. denk says:

    William BLum , RIP

    For 70 years, the United States convinced much of the world that there was an international conspiracy out there. An International Communist Conspiracy; seeking no less than control over the entire planet, for purposes which had no socially redeeming values. And the world was made to believe that it somehow needed the United States to save it from communist darkness. “Just buy our weapons,” said Washington, “let our military and our corporations roam freely across your land, and give us veto power over who your leaders will be, and we’ll protect you.”
    It was the cleverest protection racket since men convinced women that they needed men to protect them — If all the men vanished overnight, how many women would be afraid to walk the streets?

  121. @ERM

    Derbyshire and a British woman would have produced Caucasian/European children. We don’t need or want hapas in the West. The West is not black/Asian/Jewish/Muslim.

  122. @Dr. X

    “The average American dipshit could care less about government corruption, censorship, and infringements on freedom so long as he has his flat-screen, his porn, and his football….”

    Reprinted and amplified.

    YEP.

  123. @Oneworld

    It will get there. First Vancouver, then more.

  124. @SafeNow

    You were doing great until you made me picture Walter Matthau in bed. You owe me, man. Dodgers tickets or something.

  125. @anonymous

    I fully agree, and I live in LA.

    We have the weather, cuisine, and scenery to justify SOME people putting up with the unreasonable taxes, ousting costs, traffic, pollution, attitude, etc.

    Moving to NYC area from even this lefty nutcamp would add bad weather, older buildings and infrastructure, and way more tribe, Africans, and Puerto Ricans with all the same hassles and dangers on every front.

    NYC truly sucks.

  126. @Achmed E. Newman

    If you are on Facebook, Mefo, then YOU are part of the problem.

    Part of what problem? Facebook users are not initiating violence, they are just exercising their rights to liberty and freedom to choose. How could a libertarian take issue with that?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  127. @Half-Jap

    I’ve never had a vpn problem. Do you use registered vpns?

    The chinese, being Confucian, have always placed far more emphasis on responsible, accurate public communications than we Romans. Rectification of terminology and all that.

    We’re accustomed to our toxic stew of media lies and elisions while they find it either unattractive or downright dangerous. I tend to agree with them.

    Our (usually) unspoken assumption is that everyone – especially, perhaps, the Chinese people – distrusts government control of media because government is bad. That may be true in the US (less so in the UK, where the BBC retains the trust of most Brits).

    The Chinese are more trusting of government media censorship than the Brits. They overwhelmingly (85%) trust their government and media. They know they have censors and they trust the censors’ common sense and good judgement.

    They also understand how the USA is destroying itself by allowing public information to be privately controlled.

    Here in the US we have lost trust in our ‘free’ media. We know it’s censored but we don’t know who censors it or why. We’ve experienced it lying to us too many times. Only 18% of us now trust it.
    The facts do not support the assumptions in this article nor, indeed, in any Western media regarding censorship in China. If forced to choose they won’t swap their trustworthy censored media for our untrustworthy censored media.

  128. @silviosilver

    Can you try to keep up, dude? The guy was comparing FB, etc. to the Chinese Orwellian stuff, and I told him one can at least opt out of Facebook (and google stuff, albeit harder). Obviously, if he is a member, Mr. Mefo is part of the problem he, himself, was rightly complaining about.

    Your last line is pretty idiotic. If you had voluntarily joined the Red Guards in 1968 to harass and kill other Chinamen, that wouldn’t have made you a Libertarian.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @MEFOBILLS
  129. @Godfree Roberts

    I’ve been trying to refrain from responding to your Commie-sackhanging, Mr. Roberts, retirement expert in Thailand, mainly because you are one of the most polite Communists I’ve ever run into. (By “running into” I mean pretty much on-line only.)

    I told you before that someone I know well personally had a grandfather that starved in the Great Leap Forward. Then, you replied that Mao didn’t kill anyone. This guy starved to DEATH, OK – I would have though that was implied. People were eating tree bark near the end.

    Your comments are laughable, moreso because you don’t even write from China. Where exactly do you get your information from, microfiche of the 1970’s CCP newsletter? Have you been to China, Mr. Roberts? Do you talk to many Chinese people? I do. Lots are in America. For various reasons, corrupt Chinese government officials that make $600 monthly buy half-million dollar properties in not only the west coast cities, but university towns all over the US (see Part 2 of “Housing Bubble 2.0 – Voila, an American Dream”). They don’t all have nice things to say about the place they left, even the ones that will be going back.

    I get from your website that you moved to the Far East (really Far West for us) after your businesses of some sort went bust after the financial crash of ’08. Something tells me you picked Thailand not for the beaches (they got ’em in Central America), but for the, let’s say, artifacts of the Poon Tang Dynasty. I have no problem with that either. I really understand the frustration with feminist or feminist-inspired Western women. I hope you did OK in Thailand in that respect, Godfree.

    I hope you don’t think most of the educated readers on unz go for your Commie crap, though.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
    , @d dan
  130. @Godfree Roberts

    Oh, and for one of your Comm-ent-tards, the guy that goes by “D.B. Cooper”, I’ve got news for you – he’s not an American. With that handle, one would think he was, but I tested him the same way the soldiers used to test possible spies in the war: “Who won the World Series in 1931?”, etc.

    See, the German spy may have memorized a lot of stuff, but with a few questions like that, one can get a real feel for his grasp of the culture. In the case of this D.B. Cooper, I asked him a question some months back he didn’t get, and now, on the Buchanan thread on China, I asked him “what’d you do with the 200 large?”

    Please don’t give him any hints, anyone, as “D.B. Cooper” may be reading. Come on, Mr. Cooper, ANSWER THE QUESTION! [/Tucker]

  131. @Achmed E. Newman

    Can you try to keep up, dude? The guy was comparing FB, etc. to the Chinese Orwellian stuff, and I told him one can at least opt out of Facebook (and google stuff, albeit harder).

    Okay. But you could have been a bit clearer and said something like “if he uses FB and doesn’t like the surveillance, then he has only himself to blame,” rather than characterizing him as part of “the problem”, which implies his behavior is something that affects the rest of us.

    Your last line is pretty idiotic. If you had voluntarily joined the Red Guards in 1968 to harass and kill other Chinamen, that wouldn’t have made you a Libertarian.

    Well yeah, but what does that have to do with anything I said?

  132. MEFOBILLS says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Can you try to keep up, dude? The guy was comparing FB, etc. to the Chinese Orwellian stuff, and I told him one can at least opt out of Facebook (and google stuff, albeit harder). Obviously, if he is a member, Mr. Mefo is part of the problem he, himself, was rightly complaining about.

    Lolbertarians make the argument that you can opt out, or create your own alternative…. after all you are free.

    This argument ignores that the public square today was created with public dollars.

    You cannot go out and create a new internet

    Lolbertarians make the same argument about water rights. You are free to dig yourself a pond on your property.

    Never mind that individuals do not have eminent domain or taxing authority, to then tackle big infrastructure projects.

    Today’s high tech monopolists like FB, Google, and others who benefit from the tax payer formed internet, are indeed squelching free speech.

    How many people have been banned from Youtube for bad think? The ADL sends out a list of those it does’t like, and Twitter, FB, Youtube and others all salute and start banning.

    So, this lolbertarian idea of freedom, is really freedumb for Oligarchy to take rents.

    The Chinese at least kill or jail their rentiers, which ultimately will lead to a more equal and less polarized society.

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/04/the-delphic-oracle-was-their-davos-a-four-part-interview-with-michael-hudson-about-his-forthcoming-book-the-collapse-of-antiquity-part-1.html

    All this requires a mixed economy, such as the Bronze Age Near Eastern economies were. The palace, temples, private sector and entrepreneurs acted as checks and balances on each other. Western Civilization isn’t a mixed economy. Socialism was an attempt to create a mixed economy, but the oligarchs fought back. What they call a “free market” is an unmixed monolithic, centrally planned financialized economy with freedom for the oligarchy to impoverish the rest of society. That was achieved by landlordism monopolizing the land in feudal Europe, and it is done by finance today.

    Lolbertarians don’t have the answers, and are part of the problem.

    • Agree: MAOWASAYALI
  133. @Achmed E. Newman

    mainly because you are one of the most polite Communists I’ve ever run into

    He does indeed seem like a mild-mannered fellow. I confess I enjoy his posts, even though I don’t believe a word of his fanciful spins.

    More distressing to me is the shocking degree of Sino-cucking that shows up on his threads. Makes me wanna spit.

    I am cracking open “Stealth War: How China Took Over While America’s Elite Slept,” by Robert Spalding. I came across a youtube interview with this guy (whom I’d never heard of), decided to have a listen, and was greatly heartened that someone with his solidly anti-China perspective had some policy-making influence. It gives me hope that not everyone in foreign policy circles is a hopelessly delusional libtard. (Which was never actually true, but it so often seems that way that you start to wonder.) He is a Hudson Institute fellow and a prolific commentator on China, and you can check out his work at that site.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  134. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “I told you before that someone I know well personally had a grandfather that starved in the Great Leap Forward. Then, you replied that Mao didn’t kill anyone. This guy starved to DEATH, OK – I would have though that was implied. People were eating tree bark near the end.”

    Death due to starvation is different from murder killing. Murder requires an intend, which is lacking here. Mao had no motive to kill random people in China.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Gimeiyo
  135. @TKK

    They [Chinese women] prefer their own race.

    Well, of course–don’t most people? You’ll find plenty of exceptions. If you could attract an American woman but would prefer a Chinese, you should have no trouble finding one.

    A Chinese woman who’s had a bad experience with a Chinese man might well go completely the other way and insist on a white guy, especially if she’s already in a Western country. I know one whose first husband was Chinese (both naturalized US citizens); she divorced him more than 35 years ago, and since then all her boyfriends and her second husband have been white.

  136. @silviosilver

    I will do a search for that book at the library prontomundo, Silvio. Thank you.

    I don’t think everyone in foreign policy circles is a “hopelessly delusional libtard”, though. I think lots of them may know better but will sell out their country for the modern equivalent of 30 pieces of silver. The Clintons were the most egregious example, and from my knowledge, did the worst long-term economic damage to our country with respect to China.

    BTW, besides the “sino-cucking” (haha) there is the all-things-Soviet crowd, and I shit you not when I say I read a thread within which these 2 sides were arguing about which Communist country’s 5-year plans had been better!

    “Five-year plans and New Deals, wrapped in golden chains,
    and I wonder, still I wonder, who’ll stop the rain.”

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – best rock&roll voice EVAH!

    • Agree: silviosilver
  137. Liza says:
    @Dr. X

    The average American dipshit could care less about government corruption, censorship, and infringements on freedom so long as he has his flat-screen, his porn, and his football.

    Don’t forget junk food and beer (or other beverage of choice).

  138. @d dan

    Mao had no motive to kill random people in China.

    Quite true, Dan. Of course not. That doesn’t make it any better when you and another 30 or 40 million people are starving due to “let’s make steel on the farms, as I will control the economy from right here at my office in Peking.”

    Absolute Power + Stupidity = Evil

  139. Lin says:

    when you and another 30 or 40 million people are starving due to “let’s make steel on the farms

    Look, either you’re inept or you believe in silly propaganda or you push such propaganda.
    The agricultural disaster was largely the result of a prolonged drought and bad droughts happened in human history. You want to blame on cutting down trees?
    –Do you have data on the volume of trees cut down to make assessment on a large country like china?
    –Cutting down trees could cause erosion of top soil in case of flood which is not the main problem then . And how persistent must tree cutting be to cause massive top soil erosion and what impact on harvest? These questions could only be answered through massive research with sufficient data
    –Sure many people die but ’30 or 40 million people’ ?
    ………………….
    Sure making steel the ‘great leap forward’ way is rushy and bad but what you said is just stupid propaganda repeated so many times

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  140. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “That doesn’t make it any better when you and another 30 or 40 million people are starving due to “let’s make steel on the farms, as I will control the economy from right here at my office in Peking.”

    Absolute Power + Stupidity = Evil”

    Looks like the info you have about China all came from western sources.

    One-sided info + Arrogance = Stupidity

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  141. stevecel says:

    It doesn’t matter whether China is good or bad. WW3 is inevitable. All of these petty arguments are boring and stupid.

    The real question is why the fuck did the Anglo-Saxon race submit to the Jews? Too much talking and discussing with a race known for higher verbal IQ? Where did common sense go that said even if this other guy is right, he’s still wrong for being of another race? That’s what constitutionalism gets you.

  142. Vidi says:
    @Tusk

    I find it odd that all the people I know that were positive about China, learnt Mandarin, and went over for work were to ones who came back disillusioned and diswayed about ever going to China again.

    Unless you actually went to China (which you probably did not) you saw only the people who came back from there, presumably the disillusioned ones. Common sense says that there must be some — it isn’t possible to satisfy everyone. The important question is, how many? What percentage of the people who went there to work became negative about China?

  143. @d dan

    I just got done writing that the source is Chinese – can you figure that out from the grandfather’s dying of starvation during that “Great Leap Forward”? Don’t try to defend evil. Your lies become a part of it. That goes for all of you Commie-ent-tards.

    • Replies: @Biff
    , @Commentator Mike
  144. Biff says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    That goes for all of you

    Ok, tough guy!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  145. Gimeiyo says:

    For thin consolation, we can reflect that a hundred years from now all these spiffy gleaming Chinese transit systems will be Installed Base. They will be as crappy, ill-maintained, and ill-managed as today’s New York subway or La Guardia airport.

    Will they though? The Ginza line in Tokyo opened in 1927, and — assuming current trends continue — it’s not going to be anywhere near as gross as the NYC subway when it hits a hundred. China is not Japan, to be sure, but the Japan of 1927 (which had experienced chaos, rioting, and mass disorder after the 1923 Great Kanto Earthquake) wasn’t the Japan of today either. It’s not a given that the Chinese are going to be as lackadaisical about rail system maintenance as Americans are.

  146. Gimeiyo says:
    @Dutch Boy

    @Dutch Boy:

    Mr.D also pointed out that the CCP seems to have some interest in preserving at least some aspects of Chinese culture (not to mention not importing millions of non-Chinese serfs).

    From the outside looking in, the CCP today basically just seems like an ordinary fascist regime, not dissimilar from Franco in Spain or the Park Chunghee government in South Korea. Back when it was still a full-on left-wing communist regime in the grip of its founding generation (Mao, Lin Biao, Mao’s horrid wife, and the rest), the death toll was measured in the tens of millions, and party leaders whipped up local activists to go around destroying temples, defacing tombs, and seizing and burning books and other historical artifacts to eradicate “feudal” traditional cultural practices. Things seem a lot more liveable now.

  147. Gimeiyo says:
    @d dan

    d dan:

    Death due to starvation is different from murder killing. Murder requires an intend, which is lacking here. Mao had no motive to kill random people in China.

    Wasn’t his motive to bring about the communist revolution? I suppose you’ll just dismiss it as propaganda, but Dikotter’s work on the Great Leap Forward reflects not just tens of millions of deaths due to famine, thanks to bonkers communist economic theory, but also millions of summary executions: peasants who resisted joining agricultural communes, starving people who ate some of the food they’d grown rather than giving it to the party, etc. He didn’t pull the trigger any more than Hitler pulled the trigger (or the lever or whatever) on the gas chambers, but he put in place the policies that led to their deaths all the same. And then during the Cultural Revolution, when idiot children were running around beating their teachers to death or making them eat nails, he celebrated them as the true communist activists and urged his little Red Guards to greater and more awful depravities. Until he flipped on them after they had served his purpose.

    Mao was the worst. Just absolute trash as a human being. Other people from his generation, like Peng Dehuai or Zhou Enlai actually seem like they could have been decent people, if they hadn’t decided to yoke themselves to communism (or in Zhou’s case, hadn’t decided to abase themselves by becoming the slavish hypeman for a monster like Mao). Peng, for example, actually wanted to help the Nationalists fight off the Japanese. Zhou stepped in to protect some people from Mao’s evil during the Cultural Revolution. Mao, though . . . there are no words.

  148. @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed wrote:

    the grandfather’s dying of starvation during that “Great Leap Forward”

    And then blamed Mao’s communism for this. Meanwhile in the UK in 2018:

    https://www.e3g.org/news/media-room/17000-people-in-the-uk-died-last-winter-due-to-cold-housing

    Why not complain impassionately about the evils of capitalism killing all these people?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @d dan
  149. Agent76 says:
    @BlackDragon

    “A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.” William Shakespeare

  150. @Biff

    It’s just observation, not being a tough guy. You are the densest of the Comm-ent-tards, so let me just past it back in:

    Don’t try to defend evil. Your lies become a part of it. That goes for all of you Commie-ent-tards.

  151. @Commentator Mike

    Why not complain impassionately about the evils of capitalism killing all these people?

    Because it’s not capitalism but Socialism that killed them. I’m sure they would have done a lot better had formerly-Great formerly-Britain not had 6 decades running of Socialism, in which people who work hard pay for the irresponsible. This means they have less money for the basics, like natural gas, and the stuff is taxed all to hell. Do you have any idea of how much a liter of the “petrol” costs in London?

    In the meantime, the irresponsible who live off the freebies forcibly provided by the working people will waste water and energy, just like a renter whose landlord covers the bills. Then, you’ve got government-run housing by bureaucrats who aren’t responsible for squat-all once the clock hits 4:30 PM. It’s a real shit-show over there – a friend of mine is in London right now, telling me the what-for. You can’t even defend your own home with a guy. WTF?

    I also do wonder how many of these people were about to kick off anyway. 17,000 is a lot. Did all these people freeze until their core temperatures got below 30C, or did their colds and flu’s just get exacerbated.

  152. @Achmed E. Newman

    How is US’s rawer capitalism and complete deregulation better?

    Australia somehow seems to avoid either of these extremes.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  153. @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed,

    It’s arguable how they reach those figures, but then definitely some do die of the cold. But then again, one can argue about numbers and who to blame for deaths under Mao. At least China is doing better now. There are elements of socialism in the way the UK’s public services are managed (or mismanaged) but still the system as such is capitalist.

    You can’t even defend your own home with a guy. WTF?

    Well yes. It’s not the same everywhere, like this unlucky Norwegian found out visiting his father in law in USA:

    https://www.fox23.com/news/trending-now/birthday-surprise-backfires-man-who-flew-from-norway-to-florida-fatally-shot-by-father-in-law/993867099

    Had it been the other way around, with the American visiting Norway, well… they could have just had a good happy birthday party.

  154. @Lin

    My favorite CCP fuck-up was the anti-sparrows campaign. I laughed hard when I first learned of that. Of course, it’s unseemly to laugh at people’s misfortunes, particularly ones that result in so much suffering. But so great was my hatred for the irrationality of communism and the mental defectives who support the communist cause that I couldn’t help but experience a rush of elation to learn of such a monumental failure of commie economic efforts.

    (For those who don’t know, Mao blamed sparrows for eating the crops, and ordered that they be exterminated. The campaign succeeded, but the growth in insect populations that resulted proved even more devastating for the harvest. I expect Godfree will be along shortly to correct my misconceptions.)

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Lin
  155. @Commentator Mike

    Well you say that but Brevik carried out the worst mass shooting in history on Norway soil.

  156. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    so Mao didnt ‘murdered’ millions after all…

    Its uncle sham, who imposed a complete trade embargo on China right after the KOrean war, including medicines and foods, which led to millions died of decease and starvation during the GLF.

    UNCLE SHAM IS THE REAL COLD BLOODED MURDER.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  157. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Because it’s not capitalism but Socialism that killed them

    Mao didnt murdered millions in the 50’s,
    Yet you keep flogging that dead horse in every thread on China.

    USA murdered 951 civilians in Feb this year alone….
    ——————–

    Not for Prime Time: “US Kills 951 Civilians!”

    These were regular, men, women, children, grandparents, aunt’s, uncles, and cousins who succumbed to American bullets and bombs.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51172.htm
    ———————————

    Never see you complaining.

    We in the East believe in ‘
    charity starts at home‘,
    I guess anglos have a different philosophy on life, hence all these foreign interventions.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  158. @denk

    This is something known by historians all over the world, including China. It doesn’t matter how many times you type it on the internet, 30 to 40 million people starved to death in China (1960-61) due directly to the actions of Chairman Mao.

    Of course there’d be a trade embargo, you imbecile, we were enemies. That didn’t stop the US from sending corn over there during later famines, after Nixon’s visit – it was feed corn, grant you, but beggars can’t be choosers.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Lin
  159. @denk

    USA murdered 951 civilians in Feb this year alone….

    What’s this USA of which you speak, Dink? If you mean the US Feral Gov’t, I can sure believe that. It murdered 70 men, women and children, just at one spot in Waco, Texas alone, for something they could have arrested a guy downtown for.

    The American people are not the US Feral Government, just as the Chinese people were/are not the CCP. Can you distinguish the differences, Dink? It’d help, because once you understand that absolute power kills, you may lean more Libertarian. It’s not a bet I’d take, though …

    • Replies: @denk
  160. d dan says:
    @Commentator Mike

    “And then blamed Mao’s communism for this….”

    Yes, he believes the death of his friend’s grandfather must be because of Mao, no logic or argument required.

    The problem with Mr Newman is that he thinks his brand of political belief is superior to others. He is so certain of the superiority that he believes anyone who disagrees with him is either brainwashed or more stupid than him. That will probably include the 1.4 billions souls that still haven’t stood up to overthrow the CCP.

    It is no different than those religious fanatics: “Hey, my God is superior than yours. Look at all the good things my God has done, and all the bad things your God has done. If you don’t believe in my God, you are pure EVIL, period.”

  161. @silviosilver

    Thanks for the reminder of that fuck-up, Silvio. The thing is, stupid people are not inherently a problem for society, in small doses. You just can’t have a government in which some moron who thinks one man or committee can control the complete economic behavior of a BILLION people can actually obtain absolute power. That kills many.

  162. @Commentator Mike

    I did mean “gun”, not “guy”, but thanks for not harping on that, C.M.

  163. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The American people are not the US Feral Government

    Whats the matter with you honey,
    I specifically write USA , not murikkans.

    dink

    never fail, an anglo traits, when all else fails,…
    resort to name caLling

  164. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    This is something known by historians all over the world, including China. It doesn’t matter how many times you type it on the internet, 30 to 40 million people starved to death in China (1960-61) due directly to the actions of Chairman Mao.

    really, I seem to remember in a previouis thread where you bitch about mAO’S EVIL, somene informed you about the embargo when you confess ‘well I dunno about that’

    Of course there’d be a trade embargo, you imbecile, we were enemies

    Enemies cuz you picked fights on China’s doorsteps asshole

    YOu make a difference bet govn and people eh,
    thats very nice.
    Are the Chinese people your enemy ?
    Why do you intentionally starve them to death , even forbade Oz and Canada to sell them grains. ?

    THEN TURN AROUND TO ACCUSE MAO OF
    MURDERING HIS OWN PEOPLE,

    CLASSIC ROBBER CRYING ROBBERY

  165. @Jeff Stryker

    America isn’t “completely” de/unregulated. That’s just silly. But, yes, there is a rawer, let-them-eat-cake edge to American capitalism that is absent in other western countries. Had it not been for the enormous size of America’s non-white underclass, America by today would probably approximate the European model. It was certainly moving in that direction for most of the 20th century. The failure of the “Great Society” programs to achieve the equality they promised dealt an all but fatal blow to what Americans call “liberalism” (but which Europeans, more accurately, think of as social democracy).

  166. Lin says:
    @silviosilver

    My favorite CCP fuck-up was the anti-sparrows campaign

    Blaming the insects/pest eating crops on sparrow extinction is just as silly as Mao blaming the sparrows eating the crops. Could an avian species like sparrows in a large country be even cut to half in number because of a short lived campaign?

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  167. Lin says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It doesn’t matter how many times you type it on the internet, 30 to 40 million people starved to death in China (1960-61) due directly to the actions of Chairman Mao

    ……
    It just means murika as the terra superpower ran successful propaganda campaigns.
    Why don’t you show me some serious demographic data/deduction

  168. @denk

    Enemies cuz you picked fights on China’s doorsteps asshole

    Enemies because it was a communist regime. The threat of communism at the time seemed very real, so it’s hard blame America for responding the way it did.

    Why do you intentionally starve them to death , even forbade Oz and Canada to sell them grains. ?

    What can I say? Global politics is an ugly business.

    I think humans have learned something from these bitter experiences, however. I doubt that today there would be the same apathy to famine among Americans.

    The sanctions on Iran may suggest that Americans are as callous as ever, but that is largely the result of the ungodly number of Jews who have insinuated themselves into the American power structure, and who force American foreign policy to devote itself to protecting their precious little Israel.

    • Replies: @denk
  169. Gimeiyo says:
    @denk

    really, I seem to remember in a previouis thread where you bitch about mAO’S EVIL, somene informed you about the embargo when you confess ‘well I dunno about that’

    Kennedy apparently commented at some point that the US government hadn’t had any indications from the PRC that they would accept food aid. Japan apparently actually offered 100,000 tonnes, which the Communists rejected. Not that 100,000 tonnes would have made much of a difference. In fact, China continued to export food during the Great Leap Forward — the figure I see is 4.2 million tonnes in 1959, and 2.7 million in 1960. Elsewhere, I’ve seen 4.1 million for 1959. Either way, a substantial amount heading into the most lethal period of Mao’s famine (1960).

    • Replies: @denk
  170. @Lin

    I don’t think it’s absurd to imagine that sparrow numbers could have been seriously reduced in a short span of time, given the vast manpower the authorities were able to mobilize. It doesn’t take much to tip the ecological balance.

    • Replies: @Lin
  171. denk says:
    @silviosilver

    Enemies because it was a communist regime. The threat of communism at the time seemed very real, so it’s hard blame America for responding the way it did.

    The same way ” Grenada, Afpak, Iraq, Libya, Venezuela, Syria, Iran, China ‘threatens‘ fukus ‘national security’ you mean ?

    What can I say? Global politics is an ugly business

    .

    yeah sure, like the way they keep dismissing civilians deaths by fukus bombing …
    ‘war is ugly, there’r bound to be collateral damages in war’ !
    so they go on and on killing……

    I think humans have learned something from these bitter experiences, however. I doubt that today there would be the same apathy to famine among Americans.

    Do you know how many civilians were killed by fukus since ww2….30M is a conservative estimate/

  172. denk says:
    @Gimeiyo

    Kennedy says so eh ?
    GUess we’d just’ve to take his words for it ?

    Would he sell to China when requested, ?
    just remember this.,….Washington ordered Oz and Canada not to provide grains to China even when they were willy to do so !

  173. Lin says:
    @silviosilver

    If the campaign was to erase cockroaches, you could be right, but I doubt that’s the case with avian sparrows. Birds could be prolific breeders. Suppose you and your neighbors put ‘roach motels’ in the kitchens for a week, how fast would those pests come back? I’ve no idea.

  174. onebornfree says: • Website

    Hong Kong Protester’s Message – Communist China Mankind’s Greatest Threat-“If Hong Kong falls, the whole world falls”:

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Troll: d dan, Biff
    • Replies: @Lin
  175. @Oneworld

    > ‘Mandarin”, is a transliteration of 满大人,
    > ’mandaren’, in pinyin, which means ‘important Manchu’

    No, that’s a folk etymology. Derb is right about the origin of “mandarin”.

    From Portuguese mandarim, from Malay menteri, and its source, Sanskrit मन्त्रिन् (mantrin, “minister, councillor”)

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mandarin#Etymology_1

    Similarly for “coolie”:

    From Hindi क़ुली (qulī) and Urdu قلی‎ (qulī, “hired laborer”), named after a Gujarati tribe or caste of that name. Other forms occur in Bengali [script needed] (kuli) and Tamil கூலி (kūli, “daily hire”). Possibly also influenced by Hindi कोली (kolī, “weaver; low-class”).

    The Mandarin word 苦力 (kǔlì), meaning “to exert one’s abilities; heavy labour work” in Classical Chinese, may have been influenced by cognates of the above Hindi word in other languages and may have further influenced English.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coolie#Etymology

    • Replies: @Oneworld
  176. Lin says:
    @onebornfree

    Hong Kong Protester’s Message – Communist China Mankind’s Greatest Threat-“If Hong Kong falls, the whole world falls”

    ………..
    It means china has been very successful if that message is correct and it demos how desperate those born freak could be, haha.
    Thank you, I love it.

  177. @BlackDragon

    Yup the HK thing has a strong smell of the color crap.
    It’s telling to compare the media coverage of HK and the French Gilet Jaunes protests,

    Reeks of the deep state.

  178. @denk

    Enemies cuz you picked fights on China’s doorsteps asshole.

    You’ve got it all backwards:

    Is that your evil twin brother, Dink?

    • Replies: @denk
  179. Geeez, every single China article on unz attract the same retards shouting every insane stupid shit there is on repeat.

    At least learn to attack through different angles. 😃

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  180. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    OMFG !
    Tell me aint so ,you’r taking a leaf from that nutjob onebornfreak ?

    First off ,HK isnt murikka, [sic]
    Secondly, there’s a fukus instigated color rev going on.

    If you dont know about that stop me right now, I dont wanna waste my time with some halfwit anymore,

    IOW…..
    This is worse than picking fights at China’s doorstep,
    [Korean war, Nam, TW, spy plane over Hainan , fonops in SCS..…]

    This is setting fire inside the China shop….
    [TAM, Tibet, Xinjiang, SARS, swineflu ,…..HK]

    /*asshole*

    who started it, honey, ?

    PS
    YOu’r doing fine honey, keep digging deeper….

    Is Achmed an Arab name, man, just curious,
    YOu’ve the right to remain silent.

    • Replies: @Lin
  181. @Astuteobservor II

    At least the nuts are ethnically diverse. The Chinese want to ascribe every invention on earth to the Middle Kingdom stolen by uncooked barbarians while blaming everything including SARS on the United States.

    It is mostly a male incel phenomenon driven by youngish Chinese men who live at home at age 30 and are waiting for technology to invent a sexbot.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  182. Lin says:
    @denk

    Is Achmed an Arab name, man, just curious

    There’s a no. of possibility:
    -white aryan
    -brown aryan, ‘Fair&lovely’ bleached
    -T.I. (T=Taiwan or Tibet)
    ………
    arab is less likely

    • Replies: @denk
    , @denk
  183. @Jeff Stryker

    Besides your starting sentence, you entire comment was attacking and generalizing all the China supporters into a Chinese version of the typical incel American dwelling in their mom’s basement.

    Wanna take a challenge? Tell me why you dislike China? List your reasons.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  184. @Astuteobservor II

    Mind if I answer? I see them as a dangerous ideological and geopolitical rival. Whatever the failings of libtardism – and they are many – I am none to keen to see it elbowed aside by authoritarian Chinese global influence.

    • Agree: Liza
  185. denk says:
    @Lin

    sounds like Arab/anglo ?

    Other than his Mao syndrome and bluster, he’s actually moderate when compared to other extremists.

    hehhe

  186. @Achmed E. Newman

    Absolute Power + Stupidity = Evil

    Evil, like murder, involves intent. What happened in China during the GLF was not evil, it was a tragedy. Judging by your utterly idiotic response to my previous comment, though, I’m not surprised that you do not have the brainpower to distinguish the two.

  187. @Gimeiyo

    but also millions of summary executions: peasants who resisted joining agricultural communes, starving people who ate some of the food they’d grown rather than giving it to the party, etc.

    That is disputed. From Wikipedia:
    Wemheuer also disputed Dikötter’s claims that 2.5 million and 1–3 million people were beaten to death and driven to suicide, respectively.

    Mao was the worst.

    Hardly. Stop let western propaganda dictate your thought. Think for yourself. Mao actually improved the lives of hundreds of millions of Chinese, as well as liberating China from the oppression of foreign powers. In fact, under Mao’s rule, China’s growth in life expectancy ranks as among the most rapid sustained increases in documented global history.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  188. Charon says:
    @Daemon

    Trolls gonna troll. She was later than usual this time though.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  189. @Charon

    Troll???!!! I stated facts. You obviously cannot deal with the truth.

    I can see that you must be using an abacus for your counting. My comment is no. 14 – quite early.

  190. Oneworld says:
    @European-American

    Like many English loan words with an origin in Chinese, the etymologies make frequent misattributions to other languages, most commonly Indian languages, due to the understandable Anglo-Indian colonial bias exemplified by Hobson-Jobson’s etymological dictionary. The difficulty and strangeness of the Chinese language to Europeans contributes to this phenomenon, as Mr. Derbyshire alludes to in his article.

    Mandarin from the Malay Menteri, really? When were the Portuguese seafarers first in Malaysia? They reached China by 1519.

    • Replies: @European-American
  191. @silviosilver

    Ideologies are so 80s. You really should get over it.

    Disliking China because of geopolitical rivalry I can understand completely. Just don’t be like one of the nut cases here whenever China is mentioned. 🤗

    Regurgitating msm points here on unz makes one look really really dumb. We are better than that, should be at least.

  192. Ideologies are as relevant as ever.

    You can read my comments and decide for yourself if they are the work of a nutcase.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  193. @silviosilver

    Unlike most posters here, I’ve lived and been employed in Asia. I’m Gen X and we left home early as oppose to living in our parents basements. Have not lived with my parents since high school and was overseas alone by age 26.

    So unlike many posters here who have never traveled or left their countries and only know what they know from watching television or reading state-controlled news…I’ve been employed in Asia.

    Philippines is a prime example of what happens when Chinese run a country of non-Chinese.

    You probably have never lived outside your birthplace but visit the Philippines for an insight.

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  194. @silviosilver

    Nope, ideology is completely, utterly useless. Has been this way since USSR bought it. Don’t be old and stubborn 😂. Learn to evolve.

    From how you act right now, all calm like, you are not a nut case. 👍

    • Replies: @silviosilver
  195. @Jeff Stryker

    I’ve cumulatively spent about two years in Thailand. I was going to buy into a partnership there, but decided I didn’t really want to spend so much time in that country. There are plenty of Chinese there, but I’m not really sure what “insight” I was supposed to draw from their heavy presence.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  196. @Astuteobservor II

    Only people who understand nothing about ideology dismiss it so casually. It’s actually a very useful way of understanding political differences and political motivations. I encourage you to look into it.

    • Replies: @Lin
    , @Astuteobservor II
  197. Lin says:
    @silviosilver

    ‘Ideology’ in boarder senses, just mean ‘religion’.
    Religion as I mentioned before could mean things like aspiration of luminaries like Jesus, being and identity, scepter of theocrats, vehicles of tribal/racial power…. Being a religion means it has elements of non-rationality or irrationality: my god(s), prophets, saints are holier than thou. Like it or not, religions did change to keep up with human development but there is always a time gap between demands and change. Highlighting the importance of ‘ideology’ or worse resorted to religious wars means the conflicts haven’t be resolved or have been side tracked by certain economic/social realities. A good example is the growing acceptance of queerdom in ‘christian’ countries and this issue has been debated to death so many times.
    (Jesus once walked the earth as the king of kings and a winged naked belle once told me in my dream that:
    — in the intermediate future, there’ll be a ‘Queen’ of ‘queens’, thus started a 1000 yrs reign of Greater Sodom.
    — All heterosex will be criminalized as rape.
    –Scientists will eventually recreate a new hermaphrodite human species)

    A even better example is how ‘communism’ is reformulated in China. A religion like Salafis sunni islam will experience much turmoil because the followers refuse to budge.
    …….
    My naked winged belle in my dreams also told me that humans in whatever forms will be ‘systemised’ because of the advent of A.I. We will be entities in a grand SW network.

    • Replies: @d dan
  198. @silviosilver

    I’m writing this from Thailand. I won’t discuss the country I am in. Philippines is a different matter. There is a reason why countries like Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia have anti-Chinese riots. Once Chinese get an economy to run they’ll plunge every other race into poverty. Also, they’ll introduce rampant corruption and politicians will only be elected who support their positions (Like no unions). And sell and cook drugs, thus ensuring the marginalized poor demographic majority become junkies…China created the drug war in the Philippines.

    In general thought, Chinese are not violent. In this respect, they are like the Jews. Though lacking in the empathy and ability to manipulate through the media. Basically, they are a merchant group who will use money as a weaponized bacillus.

    • Replies: @d dan
  199. denk says:
    @Lin

    Why do I say Achmed is moderate when compared to other extremists ?
    Cuz he only claims Mao’s China was murikka’s enemy, of course thats a classic case of
    ROBBER CRYING ROBBERY by itself , an extremely obnoxious anglo traits.
    But look at the other extremists here, they claim China IS an enemy, a mortal danger to USA in fact.

    Matter of fact,,,…
    60% of murikkans share that view according to the latest poll…..

    This inspite of the fact that…
    Its fukus who’s one seeking to injure, overthrow, or confound China for the past 70 years, !
    Total embargo from the 50’s until Nixon, 1959 Tibet, 1962 indon./sino war, 1989 TAM, 2003 SARS, HXNX series birdflu,1999 bombing of Chinese embassy, 2001 spy plane over Hainan, 2008 Tibet, 2009 Xinjiang, 2013 pivot, 2015 multiple explosions at ports and factories, 2014 HK, 2019 trade war, HK, swineflu…

    What the fucking hell is going on, something in their water ???

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  200. @silviosilver

    Only people who are brain washed cares about and believes in ideologies. No offense, just how I see ideologues.

  201. Anonymous[318] • Disclaimer says:

    Great piece sir

    Your experiences in China mirror my own to an extent and I greatly enjoyed your musings. I’ve lived in China going on 10 years now and I would have infused the piece with a little more skepticism regarding the “wow isn’t China amazing now!” aspect. You’re right about the HK-Macau bridge, a “vanity project”, and most of the much-taunted-by-others infrastructure is hopelessly mired in negative ROI. The cost of that train ticket doesn’t come close to covering the cost of that cold, cavernous but shiny train station. Don’t eve get me started on Chinese architecture and urban planning. At the local level, even as I write I’m surrounded by endless high-rise apartment blocks that sit mostly empty; doomed “investments” just waiting to crash. And how was all of this paid for? Massive amounts of debt. There is a limit to how many failed investments the gov’t can cover. Already there are local banks failing and bigger banks are being forced to take on their liabilities.

    A Canadian friend of mine here married one of his (Chinese) students and I dated an ex-student for a few years. She was from Beibei and I went there to meet her family. Chongqing is famous for their spicy hot pot (huo guo) food and her sister owned a hot pot restaurant. After eating there I couldn’t taste anything for days. I found it to be a very charming little burg with a nice central square where all the farmers would come to town and gather in the hot evenings to play mah jiang and chess. I liked the little buses that wound around the steep, curvy roads which you could flag down and ask if they were going your way. I stayed at the Beibei Binguan and they treated this laowai very well.

    It’s interesting that you mention “civilized” as a focus of the ridiculous “12 core values of socialism”. Currently there is a nationwide program that allows any city to apply for the credential of “National Civilized City”. One can only speculate as to what benefit would be derived from such an honor. I guess having the most men who stand close to the urinal should count for something.

    Much has changed since I arrived, pre-Xi, and not all of it is for the better. Sure it looks nice on the surface if you’re in one of the big metro areas, and even the third and fourth tier cities show some improvement. But if you make a deal with the devil he’s going to collect his end and internal social controls are getting tighter and tighter. Christmas displays used to be quite prevalent, mostly as marketing by the retailers, but now are banned. VPN use (to jump the Great Firewall) is now illegal, though you can still use one if you’re savvy enough to find a way through. Even then, during important State functions, like the recent National Day celebration and 70th anniversary, they make it wicked hard to login to one. Controls on foreigners and who they let in to work have also become quite strict. We work here on 1-year residence/work permits so we have to renew every year. To qualify for my last permit it took me 6 weeks to gather the newly required documents, even though I’d been here 9 years already and previous permit applications were rubber-stamped.

    The “Chinese Miracle” started with China allowing capitalism to have its way. It will end when the worst aspect of capitalism (debt) meets with the always bad aspect of Communism (absolute control). The two can blend for a while it seems but eventually that pound of dollars is going to cost you a whole lot more than just flesh.

  202. @denk

    Don’t try to reason with fear.

    People like silver is just scared that China will over take USA as #1.

    One part of his fear is weird, since China doesn’t try to export it’s governing style, or bomb any country with the frequency that USA does. Both border wars since ww2 were attempts at curbing American boots nears it’s door step, and failed IMO. SK is a defacto colony with full American military control, Vietnam views China as an enemy(at least that is how it is portrayed in English media).

    That is why, don’t use logic with fear, just be understanding. 🕊️

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @denk
  203. @last straw

    Since you are just a tad more reasonable than the rest of the Godfree Roberts Mao-sackhangers on here, I’ll try to explain this to you:

    This is not a court of law, Mr. Straw. Who says evil has to involve intent? I don’t necessarily refer to the man, but the act, and the results. Would not the starvation of millions of people be an evil thing? It was absolutely NOT a tragedy, because that word is used for circumstances beyond one man or group’s deliberate actions. This was no “Act of God”, as with a tornado or earthquake.

    I would be the first to agree that Mr. Mao likely loved China and loved his countrymen, the latter only to the extent that they were not in the way of his absolute power. So what? Hitler loved the German people, Stalin loved the Russians (or at least the Georgians?), and one could find thousands of Kings/Queens/absolute rulers of nations throughout history that LOVED LOVED LOVED the people. Lots of them, especially the stupid ones, used that power to kill innocent people.

    That doesn’t remove the term “EVIL” from the acts of these people. Most of them were acts of stupidity, as, think about it, Mao wanted the Chinese people to do well, as did Stalin for the Soviet people. However, commanding a drastic change in men’s labor, the making of steel on the farm over raising the freaking crops, by Mao, or killing off the best Army Generals (out of fear, in this case) who could have likely resulted in a much better defense against the Germans, by Stalin, did not end up helping their people, did they? They resulted in EVIL.

  204. @Astuteobservor II

    I’m not in fear of China as some of the American politicians are. Why don’t you read my comments before blathering? Your writing is not exactly matching your handle, Mr. Observer.

    My problem is the continual lying about the evil done by Chairman Mao to the Chinese people by these sackhangers. The Chinese have done much better ever since the death of the guy in ’76. Mr. Deng followed up as a leader, after a couple of years of that gang-of-4 infighting, and Mr. Deng did not have the stupidity level of Mao. His “Socialism with Chinese characteristics” really meant “Capitalism that we’ll still call ‘Socialsim’”, because otherwise he would have been railroaded out of there, had he used real terminology.

    Deng’s policies, implemented first in the SE, Guangdong province, were very successful, though the giving away of large portions of American manufacturing might by the Clintons/Bushes, etc. accelerated the economic growth.

    I’ve might have my quibbles with the Chinese people on a few things, but I also have many with Americans. It’s with the GOVERNMENTS of both these places that the real problems lie.

    Peak Stupidity has, in fact, 64 posts on China! In “A Peak Stupidity apology to our Chinese readers”, we note that, while pointing out stupidity in China, we have an order of magnitude more posts on Peak Stupidity in general, which mostly call out the stupidity in America. Don’t get your panties in a bunch about our Equal Opportunity Offender policy.

    • Replies: @denk
    , @Astuteobservor II
  205. @last straw

    My comment got kinda long, but this is the bottom line that should go with it. If you want your people to live in peace and prosperity you DON’T GIVE ABSOLUTE POWER TO ANYBODY OR ANY GOVERNMENT! PERIOD! The only culture to really ever get that down was the British culture with their almost 1,000 year history of limiting the power of Kings and Queens.

    The Americans took this idea to a new high, in 1776, with an amount of freedom never having been seen before, and possibly never again. Alas, it was too good to last. We’ve had a 150 year, or arguably 225 year, run, but it’s all over now.

    The problem with you Chinamen, is over a 5 Millennium-long history, there has been no evidence of anyone just getting the ideas that the Brits and Americans had. You people just can’t imagine a small government that leaves people alone. As Peak Stupidity speculated in “Citizenship in the Nation”, it may not be in your genes, even. That’s why, as much as I like the Chinese people, I think having a few million over here is pretty much enough. Just as with our immigrants from all over the world over the last 5 decades, 99% of them don’t get it, and WILL NOT BE SUBSCRIBING to Reason magazine for Libertarians.

  206. d dan says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    “Once Chinese get an economy to run they’ll plunge every other race into poverty….”

    LOL. Blaming Chinese for the poverty of other races in South East Asia. It is just like blaming white people for plunge Blacks and “every other races into poverty” in USA.

    Sounds like another sour grape who can’t compete against oversea Chinese?

  207. d dan says:
    @Lin

    Interesting discussion on ideology.

    The fact remains: ideology, like religion, is usually the last straw for people in despair. I agree with @silviosilver that it is a useful framework to study and understand others. But as @Astuteobservor II alludes to, it is completely useless as a guide for pragmatic actions and solutions to real world problems.

  208. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I’m not in fear of China as some of the American politicians are

    HOw do you explain this craziness ?

    According to the Pew poll, the number of Americans with an unfavorable view of China grew from 47 percent in 2018 to 60 percent today. China is now tied with Russia as the greatest threat to the United States

    a] Fear
    b] peak stupidity
    c] anglo’s inherent racism, sinophobia,
    d] the water,
    e] the DNA…
    F] all of the above
    last but not least,
    g] da Jews !!

    ????????

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Tusk
  209. denk says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I shall refer you to the great Achmed.

  210. denk says:

    DON’T GIVE ABSOLUTE POWER TO ANYBODY OR ANY GOVERNMENT! PERIOD! The only culture to really ever get that down was the British culture with their almost 1,000 year history of limiting the power of Kings and Queens.

    The Americans took this idea to a new high,

    ————
    UNbridled power attained by pax Britannica followed by pax murikka has been a total disaster for the rest of world……,
    Perpetual wars, genocides, millions killed and maimed.

    Only Russia./China stand in the way of the evil empire‘s total subjugation of the planet.

    Perhaps this is why so many [[[five liars]]] hate China.

    • Replies: @denk
  211. denk says:
    @denk

    For the newbie here….

    [[[five liars]]] = fukus + Oz + Canada + NZ.

  212. @Achmed E. Newman

    Learn to let go, it will be good for you, grab a cold beer.

    No Chinese is coming to get you.

    Relax.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  213. @Astuteobservor II

    No Chinese is coming to get you.

    Exactly. You can read more about China here. It’s mostly about the modern era, with nothing on your idol Chairman Mao besides the one – “The Long March of the Chinese Commies”. See also, “Superpower Battle of the Chicken Titans – Sanders v Tso” for a laugh.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  214. @denk

    Enjoy your Social Credit while it lasts, Dinky. One day out of the blue they’ll make you pee into a cup, and your commenting days will be over.

  215. @Gimeiyo

    The US and UK governments paid Dikotter $2 mil for that piece of fiction. Read this: http://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered-part-two-whose-famine/

  216. @Godfree Roberts

    That’s YOUR writing, Godfree. It’s worth nothing. I read the first one, and it is propaganda that matches nothing that actually happened. Hopefully you do a lot better selling retirement tours in Thailand.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  217. Fits exactly with what Vi and I saw recently in two weeks in China.

    In the mid-Seventies I spent almost six months in Taiwan grinding way four hours a day at Mandarin in Taipei with a tutor and memorizing characters in the evenings. I can still say useful things like Warring States Period. I thought Chinese easier to learn than, say Spanish., unless you want to read it. It takes a couple of weeks, or did me, to hear the tones, but afterwards they are clear enough. The use of time-reference words–dzwotien, e.g., jintien if memory serves–seemed much easier than complex tenses and subjunctives of Spanish. But it sho’ nuff ain’t like how we do things.

  218. @Achmed E. Newman

    It’s my writing, but not my facts.

    You’re using ad hominem to avoid the facts.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  219. @onebornfree

    Everything you say is true. President Xi is the new Hitler!

    Those poor Uighurs in your video have now been turned into Anne Frank lampshades.

    Oy vey, it’s another Shoah!

  220. @Godfree Roberts

    Listen, you’ve been around the world and been around for quite some time, Godfree. I know you’ve heard of the guy below and his politics. I don’t know quite what to think of him sometimes, really – he was somewhat of a deluded lefty, but pretty sincere, at least, without the high-level stupidity of the left of today.

    If John Lennon sang, in a song called Revolution, no less, and DURING THAT ERA: “and if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t gonna’ make it with anyone anyhow.”, then, Mr. Roberts, you are way the hell on out there.

    Go to 02:36 if you don’t like the Beatles. That is something I could only expect from someone who reveres Mao ZeDong.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  221. @Achmed E. Newman

    More ad hominem? Can’t you discuss facts?

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @Tusk
  222. @Achmed E. Newman

    Your fixation on someone who has been dead for almost 50 years is kinky 😁

    • Replies: @Vidi
  223. BlackFlag says:
    @FB

    To be fair, old habits die hard.

    Been listening to Derb for several years. Am a big fan. Seems like his entrenched Boomer anti “chichom” views have softened.

  224. Vidi says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Still more ad hominem. It’s clear that you do not have the facts on Mao and are spewing propaganda. If you are unable to refute Godfrey’s facts but you continue to spread your untruths, then either you are dishonest or you have reached peak stupidity.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  225. @Tusk

    Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it. “Baby Soup” is really delicious!

    But seriously… that anti-Chinese black propaganda has been debunked. Cf. The Demonization of China by the Usual Suspects by Joe Canuck

  226. Tusk says:
    @denk

    Why does everyone have to like China? It makes no sense to whine that people view your country unfavourable as people may have a good reason to do so. I dislike China because of the belligerant and incessant shilling that Chinese people do online. I do not see Estonians trying to convince everyone to accept them, ditto for nearly every other country on the planet (bar Israel). Your magical ‘sinophobia’ is just like Western ‘racism’, merely a magical system you use to excuse your bad behavoiur and imply everyone else who doesn’t like you is irrational.

    • Replies: @d dan
  227. Tusk says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Why didn’t you address my dutifully referenced comment on Chinese cannibalism comrade? Can’t you discuss facts?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  228. d dan says:
    @Tusk

    “I dislike China because of the belligerant and incessant shilling that Chinese people do online. ”

    Oh, what a stupid “excuse”. It is the other way round: there are incessant anti-China propaganda in TV, newspapers, Internet and all the media 24/7. You don’t even need to open your eyes to notice them. And here you complain about Chinese people defending China?

    It is quite evident that you hate China, but you should try finding a more credible excuse for your hatred next time.

    • Troll: Tusk
    • Replies: @Tusk
  229. Tusk says:
    @d dan

    What an absolutely brain dead response. You reply exactly as I mentioned above by begging the question, implying that one’s dislike for China is precipitated by one’s hate for China. Is this the best your brain can do? I don’t watch TV, I don’t read newspapers so whatever the legacy media reports on has nothing to do with my perspective on China. As I mentioned in a comment earlier in the thread most of my perspective on China comes from those who learned mandarin, liked China, went over, then came back disillusioned. I will take first hand knowledge of the fact by people I trust over shills (such as you) who either: get paid to be belligerently pro-China online, or perhaps even worse, do it for free because you’re extremely self-conscious about being Chinese and need to rectify your self-esteem.

    Whatever the case, I don’t care. I don’t give two hoots about what China does, America’s relationship with China, or anything to do with China at all. If China is the best country in the world (in your eyes) move there and so be it. But this incessant need to be loved by everyone and have everyone sing your praises is retarded.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Smith
  230. Vidi says:
    @Vidi

    Sorry, that remark about peak stupidity was directed at Achmed E. Newman.

  231. @Tusk

    I didn’t address your dutifully referenced comment on Chinese cannibalism because it and the dutiful references are either unsubstantiated or batshit crazy and–in all cases–irrelevant.

    Every country, including our own, has cannibalism in its past and, the way we’re heading right now, in our future.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Tusk
  232. @Godfree Roberts

    Cut welfare in America for one day…you’ll see cannibalism.

  233. where the hell is peking i could not find it on your map you idiot.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  234. keep bringing on the hate white doods it tells me the chinese men and women youve and this non ice man basque fellow has encountered have treated you like dirt and I love it, by the way BEIJING sounds much better than the ugly british version.

    • Replies: @MAOWASAYALI
  235. @eastkekestaniisawhiteguy

    Give the guy a break, will ya?

    He can’t really hate the Chinese and Chicoms all that much if he’s married to one.

    John is a genius at British self-deprecation. lol

  236. Tusk says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    A 170 page PhD dissertation by a Chinese-American is ‘unsubstantiated, batshit crazy, irrelevant’?It must be hard to ‘refute’ your hot takes considering you won’t accept academic works as legitimate. I’d much rather trust actual academic works published in journals over ‘Copyright Godfree Roberts, No Source’ graphs that you endlessly spam.

  237. Of what relevance is the topic or length of the PhD dissertation in question?

    • Troll: Tusk
  238. Smith says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Yo, where’s the national debate?

    >In 2013 he catalyzed national debate by voicing vehement opposition to the government’s plan to introduce genetically modified food. He exchanged heated, personal attacks with GM food supporters, greatly impacted how it is viewed, and helped defeat the legislation.
    Can you show us the video? Because it sounds like the exact eggheads talking we have in Vietnam.

    And again with the USA whataboutism, China censorship is much worse than the West but they are in fact proud of it because it means their mind isn’t plagued by “western propaganda”.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  239. Smith says:
    @Tusk

    d dan admits that he lives in the West.

    So yes, he defends China while not living in China.

    He’s more pathetic than Chinaman and Beijinger who admit they are from Hong Kong and mainland.

  240. @Smith

    What video?

    What is your basis for claiming that ‘China censorship is much worse than the West but they are in fact proud of it because it means their mind isn’t plagued by “western propaganda”?

    Both countries practice censorship. Why do you imagine that China’s censorship is worse than ours?

    • Replies: @Smith
  241. Smith says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Because of the amount of banned video games, music, films and book everything.
    Simple fact:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_China

    China DWARFS the US in censorship.

    Also, the video of the national debate, if any, I want to see your dog and pony show.

  242. Smith says:

    And I’m going to cite another martial art anecdote, ANY debate in China is going to be scripted for sure ESPECIALLY if it’s on national TV, the chinese (and most asian, vietnamese included) have a way with words, we say too much without meaning anything, though europeans (EUcrats) are getting on this too.

    Frankness = Goodness, straight to the point, no fucking bullshit around.

    This is an example of what I’m talking about of asian worldplay, UNSCRIPTED interview (not even a debate) where Ding Hao, a wing chun martial artist guy, went full denial on why he lost to a chinese boxer who handicapped himself by fighting with just one hand:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=zmue2xXS7ck

    “I can’t say it doesn’t have an affect”
    “We didn’t eat enough”.

    I really doubt any “national debate” in China.

  243. Ace says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Was the profanity necessary?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  244. Ace says:
    @CommentPassingThru

    Now that comment is just pure class.

  245. @anonymous

    He lives on Long Island. There are many potential attractions to living there. And that’s without counting the stimulating aspects of NYC life. I think he was a Wall Street quant for long enough to have settled in to NY – like millions of others.

  246. @eastkekestaniisawhiteguy

    Are you going to continue to use that moniker to advertise your crass ignorance?

  247. @last straw

    Surely peace was all that was required to improve the lives of hundreds of millions of Chinese and their life expectancy. For hunfreds of millions of people it couldn’t have been otherwise.

  248. @Oneworld

    > Mandarin from the Malay Menteri, really?
    > When were the Portuguese seafarers first in Malaysia?
    > They reached China by 1519.

    Portugal ruled Malacca for 130 years, from 1511 to 1641. It was one of their first contact points with East Asia. Malacca had been a Chinese protectorate and a major Chinese trading post for over 100 years before that. So it’s plausible that the Portuguese learned a lot about China via Malaysia. Also, their conquest of Malacca displeased Ming China, who as a result limited direct contact with the Portuguese for many years.

    By the way, linking “mandarin” to “Manchu” seems utterly anachronistic, since the Manchu-led Qing dynasty didn’t begin until 1644, long after the first occurrences of the Portuguese term.

    https://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/mandarin

  249. @Oneworld

    > I speculate that European visitors during the Qing Dynasty
    > associated important officials with their Manchu overlords,
    > hence the origin of the meaning of ‘mandarin’ in English usage.

    That’s impossible, since the first occurrences of the term in Portuguese occur well before the Qing dynasty.

    1580s, “Chinese official,” via Portuguese mandarim or older Dutch mandorijn from Malay (Austronesian) mantri, … Form influenced in Portuguese by mandar “to command, order.”

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/mandarin

    • Replies: @oneworld
  250. oneworld says:
    @European-American

    Point taken. Though, it is interesting to speculate how word usage changes over time, though I agree etymologists are very focussed on first appearances in any written source.
    Thanks for your comments.

    • Agree: European-American
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