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Mourning in America—A “Patriot Spring” In Europe?
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Screenwriter Aaron Sorkin isn't happy. Credit: VDare.com.
Screenwriter Aaron Sorkin isn't happy. Credit: VDare.com.

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St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell. Apparently if you get to Heaven there is a sort of balcony you have access to where you can stand and watch the sinners down below being prodded, scorched, and flayed.

Far be it from me to bandy theology with the Angelic Doctor, but I’ve always thought that divine justice should have a bit more charity in it than that. Whatever: Down here in the terrestrial sphere, there’s no doubt that one of the pleasures of winning an election is seeing the torments of the losers.

One of the first losers out of the gate, on Wednesday morning, was the curiously named Steven Thrasher [Email him] of BuzzFeed. It’s not the “Steven” that excites my curiosity, it’s the “Thrasher.” Mr. Thrasher is a homosexual; indeed, he basks in the glory of having received the 2012 Journalist of the Year award from the National Lesbian & Gay Journalists Association. I know it’s Neanderthal of me, but I can’t help wondering whether “Thrasher” is an assumed name, meant to signal something to those in the know…but that’s idle speculation on my part.

So here was Mr. Thrasher on Wednesday morning:

thrasherThis is a terrifying moment for America. Hold your loved ones close.

People of color, women, Muslims, queer people, the sick, immigrants: all are threatened by Donald Trump. They need your love, your warmth, your support Hold tight to the ones you love, America. Hold tight to the ones you love living in black and brown and yellow and native skin. Hold tight to us, because we will have to face white people who think we are rapists. We will have to face a nation that wants to stop-and-frisk us. Hold tight to us, because mass incarceration is actually going to get worse, and more of our brothers and sisters are going to be disappeared … This is a terrifying moment for America. Hold your loved ones close,Guardian, November 9, 2016

It goes on—or thrashes on—for another six hundred words in the same vein.

Homosexualists were very much to the fore in this kind of hysteria, although I can’t recall anything Donald Trump has said on the subject, and I doubt on a priori grounds that homosex bothers him in any way.

rennaFor another example, here was lesbian writer Cathy Renna [Email her]at Huffington Post, November 10th. Get yer hankies out:

This election was a hate crime. Not physical but psychological, and one that may well lead to legal and physical manifestations that would very much be categorized as hate crimes.

I saw and heard about such pain and fear on social media and personally as we realized Trump would take the election. And it has not let up. I checked on several people who were expressing a level of fear that seem like it could lead to self-harm.

A Vote For Trump Was A Hate Crime, November 11, 2016

That one also continues for over 600 words.

Screenwriter Aaron Sorkin is not homosexual, although he does have eccentric tastes: According to Wikipedia, he once dated Maureen Dowd. I’m afraid that brings to my mind a limerick the late Robert Conquest wrote about Ms. Dowd’s approximate U.K. equivalent, Brigid Brophy. The limerick is much too vulgar for a family website, so I’ll leave you to look it up for yourselves.

Mr. Sorkin unbosomed his feelings about the Trump victory in the form of a letter to his 15-year-old daughter:

The Trumpsters want to see people like us (Jewish, “coastal elites,” educated, socially progressive, Hollywood …) sobbing and wailing and talking about moving to Canada. I won’t give them that and neither will you.

Read the Letter Aaron Sorkin Wrote His Daughter After Donald Trump Was Elected President,Vanity Fair, November 9, 2016

Ms. Sorkin can of course make up her own mind about moving to Canada. It’s not actually an option for her Dad, though. He’s a convicted drug felon. [Aaron Sorkin Says He Used Drugs, AP, August 3, 2001] And Canada doesn’t give settlement visas to felons.

Casting around for targets on which to vent their spleen, the CultMarx crowd didn’t even spare the celebrity fluff magazines. Here’s a gal named L.V. Anderson, an associate editor at Slate previously known as an expert on Ziploc bags, breaking a butterfly on the wheel, the actual butterfly in this case being Peoplemagazine . [Amoral PEOPLE Magazine Is Already Fawning Over How “Cute” Trump’s Family Is .[November 9, 2016]

“Amoral”! People, you see, has done what they habitually do when someone gets elected President: they’ve posted pictures of Trump’s family—actually of his daughter Ivanka Kushner and her kids—whom the magazine describes as “cute.”

That has Ms. Anderson sputtering:

Trump and Kushner both played key roles in the most hate-filled presidential campaign in modern history. They worked tirelessly to elect a demagogue …

Trump and Kushner, more than anyone else, normalized Donald’s patent unfitness for the presidency.

And now, People is normalizing their moral bankruptcy by pretending that they are just average celebrities, as harmless as the Kardashians.

End sputter. Are the Kardashians really harmless, though? Discuss among yourselves.

And then of course there was the Hitlery-Hitlery-Hitlery-Hitler brigade. British Lefty historian Simon Schama on BBC Radio November 8th, quote: “Democracy often brings fascists to power. It did so to Germany in the 1930s. And so in my view it has done this evening.” [Fury at BBC Radio 4 as Simon Schama compares Donald Trump election win to rise of HITLER, By Cyrus Engineer, Express.co.uk, November 9, 2016]

It’s all been wonderfully delicious to watch. In a simile that I like very much, one of my email correspondents, who lives in the Washington, D.C. suburbs, told me that, quote:

There are few in my zip code with whom I could share the joy of this moment. I can report that the apparatchiks are all walking around dazed and despondent, like Japanese schoolkids who have just heard the emperor announce the capitulation on the radio.

Added to the pleasure of hearing such wailing and gnashing of teeth on the Left is the spectacle of establishment Republicans like Paul Ryan falling into line behind The Donald. The English language has the idiom “rats deserting a sinking ship.” I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.

If St Thomas Aquinas got it right, and Heaven is half as much fun as this, I’m going to be very good indeed from now on in hopes of getting there at last.

If you go before me, save me a space on that balcony.

To take set this in a global perspective: VDARE.com Editor Peter Brimelow remarked to me the other day that an American election is the Greatest Show On Earth.

He’s right of course, and that’s hopeful for the human race at large.

Our election will surely have been an encouragement. In many European nations, just as here, a smug, entrenched political elite has been pushing a sentimental globalist ideology whose benefits to their own people have long since passed the point of diminishing returns.

ORDER IT NOW

We see this in the great crisis of illegal immigration from Africa and the Middle East. We’ve been chronicling the crisis on VDARE.com: the great floods of illegals into Germany, France, Greece, and most lately Italy. [Italy Becomes A Leading Destination For Migrants, Matching Greece , NPR, November 6, 2016]We’ve told you about the sneaky euphemisms: “refugees,” “asylum seekers,” “migrants,” and so on.

No doubt some small proportion of the numbers are genuinely fleeing from something. The great majority, though, it’s plain from the news pictures, are middle-class young men from sub-Saharan Africa and reasonably stable places like Pakistan, looking for a Western lifestyle.

It’s overwhelmingly a problem of illegal immigration. And rising numbers of Europeans are mad as hell that their governments, far from doing anything to stop it, are actively encouraging it.

There you see the commonality with Trumpism in the U.S.A. Illegal immigration has been a signature Trump issue. Trump’s success in the election this week has given heart to Europeans fighting for the sovereignty of their own countries and the integrity of their borders.

Here’s a relevant quote from one of those Europeans:

[Ronald] Reagan spoke of “Poland’s struggle to be Poland.” And today, three decades later, history is about to repeat itself in the United States and in several West European countries. Of course, I am not comparing our current political elite with the Communist dictatorships with their prison cells for dissidents, but the fight of a nation to be itself, remain itself and defend its identity, that fight is also being waged today.

We are witnessing America’s struggle to be America, and the struggle of several European nations, among them the Netherlands, Britain, France, Germany and many others to preserve their identity and liberty, to remain the Netherlands, Britain, France, Germany. Everywhere, patriots are on the march. We are living the Patriot Spring.

Geert Wilders: The Patriot Spring – Breitbart, January 26, 2016

That was Dutch dissident Geert Wilders. He is the leader of a political party over there, the fifth-largest in the Dutch parliament, with twelve seats in the House and nine in the Senate. That hasn’t stopped the Establishment bringing Wilders to trial for “hate speech” after he promised an election rally that there would be fewer North Africans in Holland under a government run by his party. [Europe’s Show Trials Are Where America’s Anti-Speech Regime Is Going, By Alex Grass,The Federalist, November 6, 2016] Wilders’ trial is ongoing.

Patriots in European nations—the counterparts to those of us who write and broadcast on websites like this one—live under real threat. It’s not just the threat of show trials, either. Wilders has 24-hour police protection and sleeps at undisclosed locations.

That’s the fate of honest patriots in societies under the soft totalitarianism of Political Correctness. This week’s election in the U.S.A. has given them new hope. Here’s Geert Wilders’ stirring statement on his hopes for the President Elect:

My hope—and expectation—is that Donald Trump will follow in Reagan’s footsteps, that he will stand firm, speak the truth, concede nothing and, in doing so, inspire Western Europe to protect its freedoms against Islamization.

America has just liberated itself from Political Correctness. The American people expressed their desire to remain a free and democratic people. Now it is time for Europe. We can and will do the same!

Geert Wilders For Breitbart: The Second American Revolution Has Come, by Geert Wilders, November 9, 2016

The key takeaway here: Wilders’ phrase “the Patriot Spring.” I don’t know if he coined that himself or borrowed it, but it’s something to watch out for across the pond in coming months.

There are elections all over in Europe next year: Germany in February and September, the Netherlands itself in March, France in April, May, and June, Hungary in May, Norway in September, Czechia in October.

It could be that we’re looking at not just a Patriot Spring over there—but a Patriot Year.

If that comes to pass, it will have been partly under the inspiration of Donald Trump and our country, the U.S.A.—“the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.”

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjectsfor all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He’s had two books published by VDARE.com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and From the Dissident Right II: Essays 2013. His writings are archived atJohnDerbyshire.com.

(Republished from VDare.com by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. The idea that the US and Europe can be turned into comfortable retirement homes staffed and paid for by pleasant and obeisant, productive and well assimilated violent pig ignorant medieval peasants is astonishing, yet that’s what we are asked to believe.

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  2. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.

    Thanks. I didn’t know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
    Christianity’s weakness and its subjection to nasty attacks from all sides make it easy to get unaware of its historical baseness.

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    • Replies: @5371
    It's simple logic. Anything less would imply imperfection in divine justice.
    In those happy days no thinker shrank back from the consequences of his own premises for fear of seeming a "meanie".
    , @Quartermaster
    I have no idea where the idea Aquinas expressed originated, but you see it repeated through the ages. There is nothing in scripture about it. In fact scripture implies the opposite - the memory of this world will fade. That would include the people we knew here. If such contemplation were a part of heaven, then there would be no need for God to wipe away all tears and a declaration by the redeemed "Your judgments are just."

    No Christian takes in any pleasure in the damnation of anyone. God himself said that he takes no pleasure in the death of the sinner.
    , @Abe

    Thanks. I didn’t know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
     
    It was actually Tertullian about 10 Centuries earlier who first said this.
    , @Jeff77450
    I'm reading the Bible cover-to-cover for the fifth time in my life. The sentiment expressed by T.A., or any approximation, is not found in the Bible.
    , @Leon Berton
    Actually, he wasn't, and the author has not even bothered to look up what he actually said.

    "... in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned." (Summa of Theology, Supplement, 94, response)

    The blessed will not enjoy or relish the sufferings of others, but rather they will in knowing those sufferings be even more grateful that they were granted, and responded to, graces to attain eternal happiness.

    Actually, that's about the way I would say we should be about those in countries being undermined by idiots or persons who are tyrannical and evil, or about persons who make choices unwisely and suffer bad consequences.

    I don't wish sufferings on anyone. But in witnessing the consequences to themselves of bad choices by others, I am grateful that I have not made or done the same.

    That includes what I see going on in many European and socialist countries, even in countries dominated by Islam and its insane Shariah law.

    I feel pity and sadness for those under such burdens and am even more grateful I am not.

    To do otherwise is to be petty, vindictive and malicious.

    And actually, I think Aquinas' line of thought about this in many ways jives with the way most average hard-working decent Americans I know tend to be.
    , @Ace
    What is it with people like you? The Chinese nailed your type long ago. They thought it was an intellectual defect to look at the sky like a frog at the bottom of a well.
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  3. KenH says:

    The angry musings of (((Sorkin))), et, al., just represents one big collective shriek of “oh vey!” from prominent diaspora Jews. Their concern isn’t the security of Israel since Trump worships that state, but the fact that white gentiles just might reclaim their identity, their nations and their destinies instead of going quietly into that good night which deviates from the planned dispossession and genocide.

    This is yet more proof that they loathe and despise the white gentiles they live among.

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    • Replies: @Dissident
    What you have described is, sadly, undoubtedly true for many Jews. But not all of us. Please remember that.
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  4. BenKenobi says:

    I very much agree – the past 6 days we’ve seen our enemies driven before us, and their lamentations have been a non-stop cacophony.

    I won’t let anti-Trump wailing slide anymore. I correct apostates. “No, he’s not a sex offender, here’s why…” “No, tidal waves of third world immigrants are not good for the country.” “Sorry your magic words no longer work to stop the debate.”

    They stand there stunned and blinking, for the first time realizing they are in the presence of a Deplorable.

    It’s delicious.

    I wonder how large an army He could raise, were the God-Emperor to call for soldiers.

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  5. Sean says:

    Great.

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  6. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Ain’t it Deplorable! :-)

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  7. Miro23 says:

    The English language has the idiom “rats deserting a sinking ship.” I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.

    CYA Cover Your Ass

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    • Replies: @res

    I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.
     
    "Jumping on the bandwagon" seems like the appropriate English idiom, but might not have enough of the pejorative nature you are looking for. Perhaps preface it with rats or some other noun or turn it into something like "Cucks jumping on the Trump bandwagon."

    Hopefully someone more creative than I am can come up with something even better.
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  8. Rehmat says:

    John …. you think Steven Thrasher was funny …. listed to Jeffrey Goldberg, new editor of ‘The Atlantic’ and former prison guard at Ktzi’ot, Israel’s largest detention camp for Palestinian political prisoners, compared Trump’s November 8 victory with November 8, 1938, “when the Nazi paramilitary and German civilians looted and vandalized thousands of Jewish business and synagogues burned. Jews were murdered, and estimated 30,000 Jewish men were arrested and taken to concentration camps,” lied the ZioNazi torturer…. Or ….

    Ms. Jane Eisener, editor of ‘The Jewish Daily Forward’ who wrote that as a White (?) and Jewish woman, she doesn’t know what future holds for Jews under president Donald Trump. “All I know is that my daughter is crying, and I don’t know what to say.”

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/11/12/us-trump-in-jews-out/

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  9. So have anti-immigration parties been winning elections in those European countries that have immigration/migrants?

    ‘… He is the leader of a political party over there, the fifth-largest in the Dutch parliament…’

    Fifth largest. Pretty good. But if migrants keep coming and having babies he will likely never be the leader of the largest. Its a race (geddit?).

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  10. El Dato says:

    So basically, the usual suspects are living and posting from a personal reality in which Nazi Zombie Apocalypse just occurred. They have no survival skills… and cattle trucks are heard rolling at night.

    It’s as if this were all really just another chapter of Philip K. Dick’s “Eye in the Sky” (http://www.philipkdickfans.com/literary-criticism/reviews/review-by-jason-koornick-eye-in-the-sky-1957/).

    “A Vote For Trump Was A Hate Crime”

    Oh yeah, better emprison everybody who voted wrongly. We can’t have wrong voting. The memos went out in time, after all.

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    • Replies: @silviosilver

    So basically, the usual suspects are living and posting from a personal reality in which Nazi Zombie Apocalypse just occurred. They have no survival skills… and cattle trucks are heard rolling at night.
     
    This is, what, at least the sixth time this has happened in the last thirty years. Do the cultmarx crowd ever wonder why the 'far right fascists' never seem to take the next step and actually kill them?
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  11. […] Mourning in America—A “Patriot Spring” In Europe? (John Derbyshire, The Unz Review) […]

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  12. People of color, women, Muslims, queer people, the sick, immigrants

    Natural allies, obviously.

    This notion is even dumber than the GOP’s ‘natural conservatives’ trope about latinos.

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  13. @El Dato
    So basically, the usual suspects are living and posting from a personal reality in which Nazi Zombie Apocalypse just occurred. They have no survival skills... and cattle trucks are heard rolling at night.

    It's as if this were all really just another chapter of Philip K. Dick's "Eye in the Sky" (http://www.philipkdickfans.com/literary-criticism/reviews/review-by-jason-koornick-eye-in-the-sky-1957/).

    "A Vote For Trump Was A Hate Crime"

    Oh yeah, better emprison everybody who voted wrongly. We can't have wrong voting. The memos went out in time, after all.

    So basically, the usual suspects are living and posting from a personal reality in which Nazi Zombie Apocalypse just occurred. They have no survival skills… and cattle trucks are heard rolling at night.

    This is, what, at least the sixth time this has happened in the last thirty years. Do the cultmarx crowd ever wonder why the ‘far right fascists’ never seem to take the next step and actually kill them?

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  14. Dissident says:
    @KenH
    The angry musings of (((Sorkin))), et, al., just represents one big collective shriek of "oh vey!" from prominent diaspora Jews. Their concern isn't the security of Israel since Trump worships that state, but the fact that white gentiles just might reclaim their identity, their nations and their destinies instead of going quietly into that good night which deviates from the planned dispossession and genocide.

    This is yet more proof that they loathe and despise the white gentiles they live among.

    What you have described is, sadly, undoubtedly true for many Jews. But not all of us. Please remember that.

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    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Perhaps. However, it is your people who provide the money and organization to the forces that seek to destroy my people.

    I've known and have been friends with many Jews, most of whom - if honest - would agree with most of what's written on Unz. (Yea, I know that he's Jewish.) But there's comes a time when you realize that the "nice" Nazis are still Nazis. They don't stop their brethren, so what does it matter if they mourn our loss. We're still dead.

    The irony to all of this is that Jews were never more accepted as they were in the United States. Everyone just thought of you as another ethnic group, like the Italians or Irish. The idea of violence against Jews would have been laughable. Jews intermarried with Christians left and right. Nobody cared.

    That is changing, and it's not because gentiles suddenly became anti-Semitic. It's because we've woken up to the fact that Jews became anti-gentile.

    Your elites are creating a world where white gentiles will feel betrayed, and blacks and Hispanics will hate you like they've always hated you.

    But don't worry. You always have Israel to fall back on. And you'll need it, because if whites disappear, the rest of world is far more tribal and doesn't look a thing like you. (That matters. Jews look like gentiles because, in fact, you're heavily European genetically. Gentiles just don't look at you like the "other." Blacks, Hispanics and Asians will. They'll never trust you.) No games at that point. Israel will be alone and surrounded. Granted, Muslims couldn't organize a tea party. Still, it won't be a great situation.

    And all of that for what? To prevent gas chambers in Ohio or London. For being so damn smart, Jewish elites sure are stupid.
    , @Ace
    Dissident, where can the voices of Jews such as yourself be heard? The non-Jewish Prof. MacDonald takes all kinds of heat for what he says but I am unaware of all but a few Jewish voices that oppose what appears to be the organized Jewish majority. If any non-Jew criticizes Jewish political behavior it's wall-to-wall ADL and SPLC hysteria. Which Jews oppose that?
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  15. Congratulations on a fine post Derb.

    There are elections all over in Europe next year: Germany in February and September, the Netherlands itself in March, France in April, May, and June, Hungary in May, Norway in September, Czechia in October.

    Yeah. Elections. Brexit and Trump should give pause to the Democracy Sux Crowd. The teeny tiny bit of democracy actually present in America and Great Briton has proved useful to the people of Europe and America.

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  16. Dwright says:

    Sorkin sure is a Waspy looking Jew. Nothing implied , just something that struck me.

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    • Replies: @5371
    I think that's hair dye.
    , @Miro23

    Sorkin sure is a Waspy looking Jew. Nothing implied , just something that struck me.
     
    Same here, actually hyper-waspy, but the same thing happened in Russia. When the Bolshevik Jews (worker's representatives?) took power they moved into the aristocratic homes in St Petersburg and adopted the aristocratic lifestyle with elite private schools, Pushkin evenings and weekend dachas (see Slezkine, "The Jewish Century").

    Also the same in post WW1 Germany when they managed to almost exclusively control finance and much of commerce, they became "more German than the Germans".

    At least in Israel they can be Israelis in Israel.
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  17. @Dissident
    What you have described is, sadly, undoubtedly true for many Jews. But not all of us. Please remember that.

    Perhaps. However, it is your people who provide the money and organization to the forces that seek to destroy my people.

    I’ve known and have been friends with many Jews, most of whom – if honest – would agree with most of what’s written on Unz. (Yea, I know that he’s Jewish.) But there’s comes a time when you realize that the “nice” Nazis are still Nazis. They don’t stop their brethren, so what does it matter if they mourn our loss. We’re still dead.

    The irony to all of this is that Jews were never more accepted as they were in the United States. Everyone just thought of you as another ethnic group, like the Italians or Irish. The idea of violence against Jews would have been laughable. Jews intermarried with Christians left and right. Nobody cared.

    That is changing, and it’s not because gentiles suddenly became anti-Semitic. It’s because we’ve woken up to the fact that Jews became anti-gentile.

    Your elites are creating a world where white gentiles will feel betrayed, and blacks and Hispanics will hate you like they’ve always hated you.

    But don’t worry. You always have Israel to fall back on. And you’ll need it, because if whites disappear, the rest of world is far more tribal and doesn’t look a thing like you. (That matters. Jews look like gentiles because, in fact, you’re heavily European genetically. Gentiles just don’t look at you like the “other.” Blacks, Hispanics and Asians will. They’ll never trust you.) No games at that point. Israel will be alone and surrounded. Granted, Muslims couldn’t organize a tea party. Still, it won’t be a great situation.

    And all of that for what? To prevent gas chambers in Ohio or London. For being so damn smart, Jewish elites sure are stupid.

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    • Agree: mobi
    • Replies: @Miro23
    I may be wrong, but I think that the root of the problem is the frustration of spending centuries as a disrespected lower status minority in Europe and the Middle East (particularly Europe), although they did live-apart through their own choice.

    In a multicultural state like the Austro-Hungarian Empire (prior to its collapse) they could get onto an equal footing with other minorities and run a very solid system of ethnic patronage to ratchet their way into control positions in society. The German losers couldn't really complain since they were doing exactly the same thing with regard to the Czechs, Poles, Hungarians etc.

    Jews only obtained absolute power over Europeans twice, and on both occasions used it to exact a massive revenge:

    The Bolsheviks organized the greatest slaughter of European Christians that the world had ever seen. The tallies attributable to the NKVD (director Genrik Yagoda and deputy Yakov Agranov both Jewish), the Gulag (heads all Jewish: Aron Solts, Yakov Rappoport, Lazar Kogan, Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel ) and the Ukrainian death famine of the winter of 1932-33 (organized by Lazar Kaganovich), each exceeded by millions the Holocaust with the western media to the present day carefully censoring all references.

    Bela Kuhn with his Hungarian Soviet Republic (Bolshevik style coup Budapest 1919) and 100% Jewish leadership committee launched his "Red Terror" against the Hungarians with a spectacularly murderous revolution that fortunately failed in the same year.

    Jewish extremists seem to be trying for absolute power in the US (failed 9/11 Coup) which, looking at past form, could be highly dangerous for the remaining 98% Gentile part of the population.
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  18. “St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.”

    Actually the conceit derives from Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, born at New Carthage and probably a Berber in origin. He uses the Roman amphitheater as a metaphor, if one recalls aright–the saved get front row seats on the spectacle below.

    Nietzsche has a wondrous little passage on the subject.

    Unlike money, good wine drives out bad. So y’all stick with the Thunderbird and Sneaky Pete until you acquire a taste and the finances to afford the good stuff.

    For oneself, recalling Tertullian and Nietzsche & all, one had to stop reading the pseudo-erudite bilge of–Señor Derbyshire, is it?–right there.

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    • Replies: @David
    St Thomas Aquinas:

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.
     
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  19. The English language has the idiom “rats deserting a sinking ship.” I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.

    I have been thinking of this same idiom, from the time those rats jumped ship, to now as they climb back aboard.

    Now with regard to Sorkin stating,

    The Trumpsters want to see people like us (Jewish, “coastal elites,” educated, socially progressive, Hollywood …) sobbing and wailing and talking about moving to Canada. I won’t give them that and neither will you.

    It seems right there he just did give us at least some “sobbing and wailing.” These people are blind, limp-wristed, and incapable of self-knowledge. Let’s ignore them. Turn off the big rectangle with the bright lights and sounds. Read an old book.

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    • Replies: @jacques sheete

    Turn off the big rectangle with the bright lights and sounds. Read an old book.

     

    Excellent advice, indeed.
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  20. I’ve seen so many columns and comments that express “a level of fear that seem like it could lead to self-harm” that I’ve got to wonder if these people are really that paranoid or just posturing. On what are they basing this panic?

    My brother (a hard-core SJW) passed along a comment from someone he knows to the effect that Trump’s agenda would “make life untenable for vast numbers of people” (exact quote, emphasis mine). I asked him what, exactly, would have such a drastic impact, and he listed things like tax cuts for the rich and trade wars. Seriously? I thought it was just college students who can’t feel safe if anyone disagrees with them.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ozymandias
    "I've seen so many columns and comments that express “a level of fear that seem like it could lead to self-harm” that I’ve got to wonder if these people are really that paranoid or just posturing."

    Narcissists use threats of self-harm in an attempt to control others. The initial threat is an assessment tool to see if they can convince you that you are responsible for their behavior (gaslighting).
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  21. 5371 says:
    @Anonymous

    St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.
     
    Thanks. I didn't know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
    Christianity's weakness and its subjection to nasty attacks from all sides make it easy to get unaware of its historical baseness.

    It’s simple logic. Anything less would imply imperfection in divine justice.
    In those happy days no thinker shrank back from the consequences of his own premises for fear of seeming a “meanie”.

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  22. 5371 says:
    @Dwright
    Sorkin sure is a Waspy looking Jew. Nothing implied , just something that struck me.

    I think that’s hair dye.

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  23. Miro23 says:
    @Dwright
    Sorkin sure is a Waspy looking Jew. Nothing implied , just something that struck me.

    Sorkin sure is a Waspy looking Jew. Nothing implied , just something that struck me.

    Same here, actually hyper-waspy, but the same thing happened in Russia. When the Bolshevik Jews (worker’s representatives?) took power they moved into the aristocratic homes in St Petersburg and adopted the aristocratic lifestyle with elite private schools, Pushkin evenings and weekend dachas (see Slezkine, “The Jewish Century”).

    Also the same in post WW1 Germany when they managed to almost exclusively control finance and much of commerce, they became “more German than the Germans”.

    At least in Israel they can be Israelis in Israel.

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  24. David says:
    @E. A. Costa
    "St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell."

    Actually the conceit derives from Quintus Septimius Florens Tertullianus, born at New Carthage and probably a Berber in origin. He uses the Roman amphitheater as a metaphor, if one recalls aright--the saved get front row seats on the spectacle below.

    Nietzsche has a wondrous little passage on the subject.

    Unlike money, good wine drives out bad. So y'all stick with the Thunderbird and Sneaky Pete until you acquire a taste and the finances to afford the good stuff.

    For oneself, recalling Tertullian and Nietzsche & all, one had to stop reading the pseudo-erudite bilge of--Señor Derbyshire, is it?--right there.

    St Thomas Aquinas:

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.

    Read More
    • Replies: @E. A. Costa
    Yep--straight from Tertullian, like much else not readily acknowledged.
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  25. @Rex Little
    I've seen so many columns and comments that express "a level of fear that seem like it could lead to self-harm" that I've got to wonder if these people are really that paranoid or just posturing. On what are they basing this panic?

    My brother (a hard-core SJW) passed along a comment from someone he knows to the effect that Trump's agenda would "make life untenable for vast numbers of people" (exact quote, emphasis mine). I asked him what, exactly, would have such a drastic impact, and he listed things like tax cuts for the rich and trade wars. Seriously? I thought it was just college students who can't feel safe if anyone disagrees with them.

    “I’ve seen so many columns and comments that express “a level of fear that seem like it could lead to self-harm” that I’ve got to wonder if these people are really that paranoid or just posturing.”

    Narcissists use threats of self-harm in an attempt to control others. The initial threat is an assessment tool to see if they can convince you that you are responsible for their behavior (gaslighting).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rex Little
    "Narcissists use threats of self-harm in an attempt to control others. The initial threat is an assessment tool to see if they can convince you that you are responsible for their behavior (gaslighting)."

    Maybe so, but that's not what I'm talking about here. Most of the comments I've seen were on lefty echo-chamber blogs; they're talking to each other, not to us. And not many are talking about hurting themselves; rather, they think (or claim to think) that their lives, or at least their physical safety, are threatened by Trump's agenda.
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  26. Miro23 says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country
    Perhaps. However, it is your people who provide the money and organization to the forces that seek to destroy my people.

    I've known and have been friends with many Jews, most of whom - if honest - would agree with most of what's written on Unz. (Yea, I know that he's Jewish.) But there's comes a time when you realize that the "nice" Nazis are still Nazis. They don't stop their brethren, so what does it matter if they mourn our loss. We're still dead.

    The irony to all of this is that Jews were never more accepted as they were in the United States. Everyone just thought of you as another ethnic group, like the Italians or Irish. The idea of violence against Jews would have been laughable. Jews intermarried with Christians left and right. Nobody cared.

    That is changing, and it's not because gentiles suddenly became anti-Semitic. It's because we've woken up to the fact that Jews became anti-gentile.

    Your elites are creating a world where white gentiles will feel betrayed, and blacks and Hispanics will hate you like they've always hated you.

    But don't worry. You always have Israel to fall back on. And you'll need it, because if whites disappear, the rest of world is far more tribal and doesn't look a thing like you. (That matters. Jews look like gentiles because, in fact, you're heavily European genetically. Gentiles just don't look at you like the "other." Blacks, Hispanics and Asians will. They'll never trust you.) No games at that point. Israel will be alone and surrounded. Granted, Muslims couldn't organize a tea party. Still, it won't be a great situation.

    And all of that for what? To prevent gas chambers in Ohio or London. For being so damn smart, Jewish elites sure are stupid.

    I may be wrong, but I think that the root of the problem is the frustration of spending centuries as a disrespected lower status minority in Europe and the Middle East (particularly Europe), although they did live-apart through their own choice.

    In a multicultural state like the Austro-Hungarian Empire (prior to its collapse) they could get onto an equal footing with other minorities and run a very solid system of ethnic patronage to ratchet their way into control positions in society. The German losers couldn’t really complain since they were doing exactly the same thing with regard to the Czechs, Poles, Hungarians etc.

    Jews only obtained absolute power over Europeans twice, and on both occasions used it to exact a massive revenge:

    The Bolsheviks organized the greatest slaughter of European Christians that the world had ever seen. The tallies attributable to the NKVD (director Genrik Yagoda and deputy Yakov Agranov both Jewish), the Gulag (heads all Jewish: Aron Solts, Yakov Rappoport, Lazar Kogan, Matvei Berman and Naftaly Frenkel ) and the Ukrainian death famine of the winter of 1932-33 (organized by Lazar Kaganovich), each exceeded by millions the Holocaust with the western media to the present day carefully censoring all references.

    Bela Kuhn with his Hungarian Soviet Republic (Bolshevik style coup Budapest 1919) and 100% Jewish leadership committee launched his “Red Terror” against the Hungarians with a spectacularly murderous revolution that fortunately failed in the same year.

    Jewish extremists seem to be trying for absolute power in the US (failed 9/11 Coup) which, looking at past form, could be highly dangerous for the remaining 98% Gentile part of the population.

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  27. @Anonymous

    St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.
     
    Thanks. I didn't know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
    Christianity's weakness and its subjection to nasty attacks from all sides make it easy to get unaware of its historical baseness.

    I have no idea where the idea Aquinas expressed originated, but you see it repeated through the ages. There is nothing in scripture about it. In fact scripture implies the opposite – the memory of this world will fade. That would include the people we knew here. If such contemplation were a part of heaven, then there would be no need for God to wipe away all tears and a declaration by the redeemed “Your judgments are just.”

    No Christian takes in any pleasure in the damnation of anyone. God himself said that he takes no pleasure in the death of the sinner.

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    • Replies: @Anonymous
    It may need to be understood from a different worldview. Aquinas was from the 13th Century. The church was very much in charge, and heretics and other sinners were often brutally punished to cheers of the public. Perhaps the nearest analogy we can see today is the modern Muslim world with people cheerfully participating in stonings, and cheering on ISIS pushing homosexuals off buildings (all the more reason gays should be down on their knees praising a Trump win!!!). People of that time would have happily cheered the idea of looking down from heaven at burning atheists.

    We're in a post-WII, post-60s era, where its assumed that the natural way to behave is to smother others with kindness, unless they're a deplorable.
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  28. @Ozymandias
    "I've seen so many columns and comments that express “a level of fear that seem like it could lead to self-harm” that I’ve got to wonder if these people are really that paranoid or just posturing."

    Narcissists use threats of self-harm in an attempt to control others. The initial threat is an assessment tool to see if they can convince you that you are responsible for their behavior (gaslighting).

    “Narcissists use threats of self-harm in an attempt to control others. The initial threat is an assessment tool to see if they can convince you that you are responsible for their behavior (gaslighting).”

    Maybe so, but that’s not what I’m talking about here. Most of the comments I’ve seen were on lefty echo-chamber blogs; they’re talking to each other, not to us. And not many are talking about hurting themselves; rather, they think (or claim to think) that their lives, or at least their physical safety, are threatened by Trump’s agenda.

    Read More
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  29. unit472 says:

    I keep seeing homosexuals equating themselves with blacks, browns, Muslims! and anyone else who is not a white heterosexual but is the feeling reciprocated? Not so as I can tell. In fact we have homosexuals ( if they really are) from Africa, Latin America and the rest of the Third World arriving in the US and claiming asylum based on the mistreatment they receive at the hands of black, brown, Muslims etc. The Indian Supreme Court has upheld colonial era laws that criminalize homosexual activity. China may not have formally outlawed homosexuality but I doubt a Chinese homosexual who flaunts it is going to have much of a career outside some Chinese version of a gay bath house.Ditto Japan. Only North America and Western Europe have time for these ( drama) Queens and that is only because white heterosexuals still rule the roost. The rest of the world has a more ‘traditional’ view of homosexuality. That it is, at least, morally wrong if not downright criminal behavior.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fredrik
    Even here the homosexuals are accepted only if they behave like heterosexuals.

    The homosexuals I know of in the company I work for(multinational) all have partners and live the same type of life I did in my thirties(or so). Essentially people you'd have to know better to understand they're homo.

    The obvious type isn't employable. Even in a progressive paradise.
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  30. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    I’m glad to be on the right side of this election and movement. I don’t know how white liberals can sleep at night wrecking their country, ruining the lives of their children. 20yr old college students, they may be naive to reality, but a very large portion of American liberals have no excuse.

    I’m not even sure the 20 yr olds have a good excuse. I remember that age and feeling the pull to be a liberal, but it didn’t take many lessons- blatant black privilege, double standards for minorities, finding lies/coverups in the history I’d been taught (slaves were enslaved by Africans)

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  31. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Quartermaster
    I have no idea where the idea Aquinas expressed originated, but you see it repeated through the ages. There is nothing in scripture about it. In fact scripture implies the opposite - the memory of this world will fade. That would include the people we knew here. If such contemplation were a part of heaven, then there would be no need for God to wipe away all tears and a declaration by the redeemed "Your judgments are just."

    No Christian takes in any pleasure in the damnation of anyone. God himself said that he takes no pleasure in the death of the sinner.

    It may need to be understood from a different worldview. Aquinas was from the 13th Century. The church was very much in charge, and heretics and other sinners were often brutally punished to cheers of the public. Perhaps the nearest analogy we can see today is the modern Muslim world with people cheerfully participating in stonings, and cheering on ISIS pushing homosexuals off buildings (all the more reason gays should be down on their knees praising a Trump win!!!). People of that time would have happily cheered the idea of looking down from heaven at burning atheists.

    We’re in a post-WII, post-60s era, where its assumed that the natural way to behave is to smother others with kindness, unless they’re a deplorable.

    Read More
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  32. colm says:

    To do a patriot spring, it is necessary to prevent people like Gina Miller, with zero drop of white blood, from trying to subvert it thru legal shenanigans.

    People like her should have been dealt with patriots beforehand.

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  33. Marcus says:

    Ms. Sorkin can of course make up her own mind about moving to Canada.

    If Mr Sorkin is her legal guardian, she can’t until she’s 18.

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  34. On the key question of the opportunity for schadenfreude in Heaven, Aquinas has this to say in the Summa:

    On the contrary, It is written (Isaiah 66:24): “They shall go out and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against Me”; and a gloss says: “The elect will go out by understanding or seeing manifestly, so that they may be urged the more to praise God.”

    I answer that, Nothing should be denied the blessed that belongs to the perfection of their beatitude. Now everything is known the more for being compared with its contrary, because when contraries are placed beside one another they become more conspicuous. Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm

    In short, there is no perfect freude without schadenfreude.

    I thought we all knew that.

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    • Replies: @E. A. Costa
    Straight from Tertullian, dear fellow. The problem with using Old Testament sources like this to cover the trail is, well, er--the Hebrews did not have a transphysical afterlife with Heaven and Hell, so it is not pertinent to the question of what the blessed may see or not see according to their nature.

    Tertullian was a Montanist, which gives the Roman Catholic ideologues the willies, since many Montanists were considered heretics, but not at New Carthage.

    It is still very hush-hush in certain circles but Tertullian is in many ways the originator of Latin Christianity.
    , @bummed_out
    >> In short, there is no perfect freude without schadenfreude.

    After years of telling the kids that schadenfreude is bad for them and should be avoided...
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  35. BrownCow says:

    (The left is constantly praising the transition of the U.S. into a Latin American country. I don’t think they quite understand what that means.)

    The first thing President Trump must do on taking office is what President Nixon should have done in 1973: declare a national emergency and carry out mass arrests of traitors, agitators, subversives and other national security threats, especially in the media, but also the government, law and universities. These people must be thoroughly rooted out. Clean house. If he fails to do this his government will be eventually destroyed by them, as happened to Nixon.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Fredrik
    That's not needed.

    He, and his people, should use the courts to enforce the laws. For example no more sanctuary cities. Just like some religous baker could be harrassed some SJW could be harrassed too.

    All by following the law.
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  36. Abe says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.
     
    Thanks. I didn't know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
    Christianity's weakness and its subjection to nasty attacks from all sides make it easy to get unaware of its historical baseness.

    Thanks. I didn’t know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.

    It was actually Tertullian about 10 Centuries earlier who first said this.

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  37. Fredrik says:
    @unit472
    I keep seeing homosexuals equating themselves with blacks, browns, Muslims! and anyone else who is not a white heterosexual but is the feeling reciprocated? Not so as I can tell. In fact we have homosexuals ( if they really are) from Africa, Latin America and the rest of the Third World arriving in the US and claiming asylum based on the mistreatment they receive at the hands of black, brown, Muslims etc. The Indian Supreme Court has upheld colonial era laws that criminalize homosexual activity. China may not have formally outlawed homosexuality but I doubt a Chinese homosexual who flaunts it is going to have much of a career outside some Chinese version of a gay bath house.Ditto Japan. Only North America and Western Europe have time for these ( drama) Queens and that is only because white heterosexuals still rule the roost. The rest of the world has a more 'traditional' view of homosexuality. That it is, at least, morally wrong if not downright criminal behavior.

    Even here the homosexuals are accepted only if they behave like heterosexuals.

    The homosexuals I know of in the company I work for(multinational) all have partners and live the same type of life I did in my thirties(or so). Essentially people you’d have to know better to understand they’re homo.

    The obvious type isn’t employable. Even in a progressive paradise.

    Read More
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  38. szopen says:

    It think the Reagan’s “Poland’s struggle to be Poland” was actually a reference to one of songs which was very popular during Solidarity times – where first in stanzas different people’s deeds are mentioned, and with the refrain that they did that so “Poland would be Poland/Polish” (because “żeby Polska była Polską” means “so Poland would be Poland” while “żeby Polska była polską” means “so Poland would be Polish” – i.e. not under Soviet occupation).

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  39. Fredrik says:
    @BrownCow
    (The left is constantly praising the transition of the U.S. into a Latin American country. I don't think they quite understand what that means.)

    The first thing President Trump must do on taking office is what President Nixon should have done in 1973: declare a national emergency and carry out mass arrests of traitors, agitators, subversives and other national security threats, especially in the media, but also the government, law and universities. These people must be thoroughly rooted out. Clean house. If he fails to do this his government will be eventually destroyed by them, as happened to Nixon.

    That’s not needed.

    He, and his people, should use the courts to enforce the laws. For example no more sanctuary cities. Just like some religous baker could be harrassed some SJW could be harrassed too.

    All by following the law.

    Read More
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  40. @David
    St Thomas Aquinas:

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.
     

    Yep–straight from Tertullian, like much else not readily acknowledged.

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  41. @candid_observer
    On the key question of the opportunity for schadenfreude in Heaven, Aquinas has this to say in the Summa:

    On the contrary, It is written (Isaiah 66:24): "They shall go out and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against Me"; and a gloss says: "The elect will go out by understanding or seeing manifestly, so that they may be urged the more to praise God."

    I answer that, Nothing should be denied the blessed that belongs to the perfection of their beatitude. Now everything is known the more for being compared with its contrary, because when contraries are placed beside one another they become more conspicuous. Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.
     

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm

    In short, there is no perfect freude without schadenfreude.

    I thought we all knew that.

    Straight from Tertullian, dear fellow. The problem with using Old Testament sources like this to cover the trail is, well, er–the Hebrews did not have a transphysical afterlife with Heaven and Hell, so it is not pertinent to the question of what the blessed may see or not see according to their nature.

    Tertullian was a Montanist, which gives the Roman Catholic ideologues the willies, since many Montanists were considered heretics, but not at New Carthage.

    It is still very hush-hush in certain circles but Tertullian is in many ways the originator of Latin Christianity.

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    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    No no NO. St. Thomas is not ripping off Tertullian, idiot. You and Derb don't understand the argument, which is actually very simple. The idea is that you need to know the bad to appreciate the good; eternal bliss requires a knowledge of eternal damnation in order to be perfectly experienced. And this is the really key distinction: observing the suffering of the damned does not give the saints pleasure; the sight rather gives them perfect horror, that thus they may pefectly cherish the goodness of Heaven. And the charity of divine justice is right there, because the saints will so to speak feel your pain if you go to hell; and since self-pity is probably the default state of mind for the damned, that the saints feel sorry for them would be the greatest consolation they can imagine, since nothing satisfies self-pity like receiving the sorrow of others.
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  42. Tertullian had quite a bonfire ready for the edification and entertainment of the blessed:

    “Yes, and there are other sights: that last day of judgment, with its everlasting issues; that day unlooked for by the nations, the theme of their derision, when the world hoary with age, and all its many products, shall be consumed in one great flame! How vast a spectacle then bursts upon the eye! What there excites my admiration? what my derision? Which sight gives me joy? which rouses me to exultation?–as I see so many illustrious monarchs, whose reception into the heavens was publicly announced, groaning now in the lowest darkness with great Jove himself, and those, too, who bore witness of their exultation; governors of provinces, too, who persecuted the Christian name, in fires more fierce than those with which in the days of their pride they raged against the followers of Christ.What world’s wise men besides, the very philosophers, in fact, who taught their followers that God had no concern in ought that is sublunary, and were wont to assure them that either they had no souls, or that they would never return to the bodies which at death they had left, now covered with shame before the poor deluded ones, as one fire consumes them! Poets also, trembling not before the judgment-seat of Rhadamanthus or Minos, but of the unexpected Christ! I shall have a better opportunity then of hearing the tragedians, louder-voiced in their own calamity; of viewing the play-actors, much more ‘dissolute’ in the dissolving flame; of looking upon the charioteer, all glowing in his chariot of fire; of beholding the wrestlers, not in their gymnasia, but tossing in the fiery billows; unless even then I shall not care to attend to such ministers of sin, in my eager wish rather to fix a gaze insatiable on those whose fury vented itself against the Lord. ‘This,’ I shall say, ‘this is that carpenter’s or hireling’s son, that Sabbath-breaker, that Samaritan and devil-possessed! This is He whom you purchased from Judas! This is He whom you struck with reed and fist, whom you contemptuously spat upon, to whom you gave gall and vinegar to drink! This is He whom His disciples secretly stole away, that it might be said He had risen again, or the gardener abstracted, that his lettuces might come to no harm from the crowds of visitants!’ What quaestor or priest in his munificence will bestow on you the favour of seeing and exulting in such things as these? And yet even now we in a measure have them by faith in the picturings of imagination. But what are the things which eye has not seen, ear has not heard, and which have not so much as dimly dawned upon the human heart? Whatever they are, they are nobler, I believe, than circus, and both theatres, and every race-course.’”

    (tr. Thelwall)

    Thus Tertullian condemns the Roman amphitheater with a bigger better amphitheater in the sky. It’s a pity Tertullian never got around to gambling or casinos, for the theological questions would have been enormously interesting.

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  43. If St Thomas Aquinas got it right, and Heaven is half as much fun as this, I’m going to be very good indeed from now on in hopes of getting there at last.

    Actually, you can never be “good enough” to get into heaven. I don’t say this to be offensive. I can never be good enough either nor can anybody else. This is because as human beings we are sinners. God, however, is holy and because He is holy, He hates sin and will judge sin.
    And so we can never work our way to heaven because all of the good things that we do are not enough to take away the bad things we do.

    For example, if you have ever broken any of the Ten Commandments, either in deed or thought, you have sinned and cannot get into heaven on the basis of your performance. In fact, if you have ever committed any sin, you cannot get into heaven by trying to work your way there. Instead, you will face God’s righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins. By asking Jesus to forgive you for your sins and asking him to come into your heart and be your Lord and Savior, your sins will be forgiven and you will go to heaven when you die due to what Jesus did on the cross, not due to your own performance or trying to work your way to heaven. As the Bible says:

    “…without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.” (Hebrews 9:22).

    The only way to have peace with God and go to heaven is through faith in Jesus Christ and His death on the cross because it is only through the shedding of His blood that our sins are forgiven. There is no other way.

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    • Replies: @szopen
    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)
    , @OutWest
    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.
    , @John Jeremiah Smith
    Gadzookerino, what pathetically wacky religiosity. So sick, so laughable, so sad. Ick. Grow a brain, man
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  44. szopen says:
    @ConcernedAmerican

    If St Thomas Aquinas got it right, and Heaven is half as much fun as this, I’m going to be very good indeed from now on in hopes of getting there at last.
     
    Actually, you can never be "good enough" to get into heaven. I don't say this to be offensive. I can never be good enough either nor can anybody else. This is because as human beings we are sinners. God, however, is holy and because He is holy, He hates sin and will judge sin.
    And so we can never work our way to heaven because all of the good things that we do are not enough to take away the bad things we do.

    For example, if you have ever broken any of the Ten Commandments, either in deed or thought, you have sinned and cannot get into heaven on the basis of your performance. In fact, if you have ever committed any sin, you cannot get into heaven by trying to work your way there. Instead, you will face God's righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins. By asking Jesus to forgive you for your sins and asking him to come into your heart and be your Lord and Savior, your sins will be forgiven and you will go to heaven when you die due to what Jesus did on the cross, not due to your own performance or trying to work your way to heaven. As the Bible says:

    "...without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." (Hebrews 9:22).

    The only way to have peace with God and go to heaven is through faith in Jesus Christ and His death on the cross because it is only through the shedding of His blood that our sins are forgiven. There is no other way.

    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)

    Read More
    • Replies: @ConcernedAmerican

    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)
     
    Maybe so. As human beings, in our pride, we tend to get offended at the idea that we are sinners, that God will judge our sins and that God decides how we can get to heaven. Instead, we would like to think that we can work our way to heaven or in some way at least contribute to our getting there.

    Plus, there is the bonus of feeling more spiritual or better than others and having the "secret satisfaction" that we are special and therefore deserve to go to heaven because we belong to the right church or organization.

    That's why there are some people who claim that a person has to be a member of their church or organization and follow their rules and regulations in order to get to heaven. And so salvation becomes not just the death of Jesus Christ on the cross but the death of Jesus Christ on the cross plus being a member of a specific church plus following the rules of that church.

    But that is not what the Bible says. Instead the Bible says:

    "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9).

    The true church of Christ is made up of all believers in all countries who have put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The church is not a particular building or a particular denomination.

    , @John Jeremiah Smith

    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)
     
    Let's make those Catholics take qualifying IQ tests. It's the only way they can learn.
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  45. Ben Frank says:

    America is under siege. We just won a 4-year respite, during which we can repair damage and prepare for the next major assaults.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    Precisely - the 4-year respite will run out much sooner than one thinks. Machiavelli recommended that a new ruler take all the brutal steps needed at the beginning of his reign because after that he will want and need to play the nice guy.

    Realistically, Trump has only 100 days to get things started. Any initiative that is not solidly underway on day 101 will never really happen.

    The most important priorities for the survival of the Republic are:

    ONE: clean up the entire voting system with voter ID, with clean voter rolls (no illegals, felons, zombies), solid paper ballots, see-through ballot boxes (literal "transparency"), counting at ballot stations, not in some SEIU staffed office, chain of custody, a leavening of secretly trackable ballots for control, etc.

    TWO: Clean up the communist indoctrination machine in the media and education machine.

    THREE: Bring back fact-based rather than feeling-based civics education. Every American needs to have read the Bill of Rights and understand what it means. When is civil disobedience a DUTY? How does one identify political charlatans and rented "harlatans"?
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  46. @candid_observer
    On the key question of the opportunity for schadenfreude in Heaven, Aquinas has this to say in the Summa:

    On the contrary, It is written (Isaiah 66:24): "They shall go out and see the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against Me"; and a gloss says: "The elect will go out by understanding or seeing manifestly, so that they may be urged the more to praise God."

    I answer that, Nothing should be denied the blessed that belongs to the perfection of their beatitude. Now everything is known the more for being compared with its contrary, because when contraries are placed beside one another they become more conspicuous. Wherefore in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.
     

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5094.htm

    In short, there is no perfect freude without schadenfreude.

    I thought we all knew that.

    >> In short, there is no perfect freude without schadenfreude.

    After years of telling the kids that schadenfreude is bad for them and should be avoided…

    Read More
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  47. Jeff77450 says:
    @Anonymous

    St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.
     
    Thanks. I didn't know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
    Christianity's weakness and its subjection to nasty attacks from all sides make it easy to get unaware of its historical baseness.

    I’m reading the Bible cover-to-cover for the fifth time in my life. The sentiment expressed by T.A., or any approximation, is not found in the Bible.

    Read More
    • Replies: @E. A. Costa
    Which "Bible" is that? There are so many of them.
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  48. @Jeff77450
    I'm reading the Bible cover-to-cover for the fifth time in my life. The sentiment expressed by T.A., or any approximation, is not found in the Bible.

    Which “Bible” is that? There are so many of them.

    Read More
    • Agree: jacques sheete
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  49. OutWest says:
    @ConcernedAmerican

    If St Thomas Aquinas got it right, and Heaven is half as much fun as this, I’m going to be very good indeed from now on in hopes of getting there at last.
     
    Actually, you can never be "good enough" to get into heaven. I don't say this to be offensive. I can never be good enough either nor can anybody else. This is because as human beings we are sinners. God, however, is holy and because He is holy, He hates sin and will judge sin.
    And so we can never work our way to heaven because all of the good things that we do are not enough to take away the bad things we do.

    For example, if you have ever broken any of the Ten Commandments, either in deed or thought, you have sinned and cannot get into heaven on the basis of your performance. In fact, if you have ever committed any sin, you cannot get into heaven by trying to work your way there. Instead, you will face God's righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins. By asking Jesus to forgive you for your sins and asking him to come into your heart and be your Lord and Savior, your sins will be forgiven and you will go to heaven when you die due to what Jesus did on the cross, not due to your own performance or trying to work your way to heaven. As the Bible says:

    "...without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." (Hebrews 9:22).

    The only way to have peace with God and go to heaven is through faith in Jesus Christ and His death on the cross because it is only through the shedding of His blood that our sins are forgiven. There is no other way.

    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ConcernedAmerican

    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.
     
    Jesus actually addressed that. He said:

    "And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man brought forth plentifully; and he thought to himself, 'What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?' and he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.'

    But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God." (Luke 12:16-21).

    We can never get the timing right because we never know when we are going to die. It may be 10 years from now, it may be 10 minutes from now. After all, how many people got up this morning and ended up dying in car crashes or from heart attacks or some freak accident? They didn't know when they got up that they would die today. Instead, they made plans for later that night or next week or next year, only to have today be their last day on earth.

    And once we are dead, it is too late to repent of our sins and believe in Jesus. As the Bible says:

    "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).

    This is why it's not a good idea for us to try to play games with God. He is holy and He will judge sin and we never know when our hearts will stop beating and our souls will be required of us. Any moment could be our last so we should take seriously what will happen to us after we die.

    , @jacques sheete
    Actually, I've known many "Christians" who get around that by doing both pretty much simultaneously! ;)
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  50. @OutWest
    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.

    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.

    Jesus actually addressed that. He said:

    “And He told them a parable, saying, “The land of a rich man brought forth plentifully; and he thought to himself, ‘What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?’ and he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.’

    But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’ So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.” (Luke 12:16-21).

    We can never get the timing right because we never know when we are going to die. It may be 10 years from now, it may be 10 minutes from now. After all, how many people got up this morning and ended up dying in car crashes or from heart attacks or some freak accident? They didn’t know when they got up that they would die today. Instead, they made plans for later that night or next week or next year, only to have today be their last day on earth.

    And once we are dead, it is too late to repent of our sins and believe in Jesus. As the Bible says:

    “And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

    This is why it’s not a good idea for us to try to play games with God. He is holy and He will judge sin and we never know when our hearts will stop beating and our souls will be required of us. Any moment could be our last so we should take seriously what will happen to us after we die.

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    A friend has the original of that on tape, it's faded a bit, as magnetic tape does, but you can clearly hear Jesus speaking especially the bit where he says, "Fool". It makes me shiver every time I play it.
    , @AnotherDad
    "... only to have today be their last day on earth."

    Would really suck if today was my last day. Spent yesterday afternoon with my son on the roof fixing the damage from hurricane Matthew. Could have gone to the beach instead.
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  51. @szopen
    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)

    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)

    Maybe so. As human beings, in our pride, we tend to get offended at the idea that we are sinners, that God will judge our sins and that God decides how we can get to heaven. Instead, we would like to think that we can work our way to heaven or in some way at least contribute to our getting there.

    Plus, there is the bonus of feeling more spiritual or better than others and having the “secret satisfaction” that we are special and therefore deserve to go to heaven because we belong to the right church or organization.

    That’s why there are some people who claim that a person has to be a member of their church or organization and follow their rules and regulations in order to get to heaven. And so salvation becomes not just the death of Jesus Christ on the cross but the death of Jesus Christ on the cross plus being a member of a specific church plus following the rules of that church.

    But that is not what the Bible says. Instead the Bible says:

    “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9).

    The true church of Christ is made up of all believers in all countries who have put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The church is not a particular building or a particular denomination.

    Read More
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  52. joe webb says:

    war words.. Just watched Chris Mathews deploy “death squads” to reference Trump’s changes in his line-up for cabinet posts, etc. A couple more such amazing terms came up…I forget right now, something about getting rid of bodies.

    I have been predicting civil war now for a couple years. I continue to do so.

    Having gone thru the Vietnam War time of troubles….this time it is astonishing to me… the level of hatred from the lib-rad-kindergartners.

    It can only be classified as a Religious Insurrection. A religious insurrection without God. A Societal Protoplasmic glob of mass conformist Utopianism as in the early days of the Reformation. Pol-pot in America. Revolution! Humanity! Equality! nuts. pretty soon it will be copulation in the streets, and bombs again.

    This is beyond Politics and Rationality. When it gets this bad, it tends to snowball, one outrageous claim or charge after another…until someone starts shooting. The Blacks have not yet figured out what happened. Maybe they are eagerly awaiting another welfare check from Trump.

    When they blow, it will be much bigger than the 60s and 70s.

    Joe Webb

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    • Agree: Ace
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  53. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Political Correctness is Speech Prohibition.

    Prohibition tried to force Virtue into all corners of life by banning alcohol. It just led to the underworld, gangsters, and shadow economy taking over the liquor business. The only solution was to legalize alcohol and make it legit.

    It’s been the same with marijuana. The War on Drugs has been a big bust.
    Now, the War on Drugs can be won with draconian measures, as in communist nations. But in a free society, the business will just go underground, and gangsters will make a killing. All that money that could be in the hands of legit business ends up in the hands of druglords.

    Same goes with Speech. PC is War on Speech or Speech War. But it is difficult for the State and Establishment to wage this Speech War in the age of the internet.

    Since MSM and Academia have banned free speech and free discourse with their PC speech prohibition, Alt Right has become the Speakeasy of free speech.
    They offer bootleg speech that can’t be had anywhere else. And some of that stuff is so potent and powerful that once people get a taste, they want some more since they are so tired of the Lawrence O’Donnells and Eric Ericksons of the world who must stick to Script.

    MSM may offer the conceit or flavor of freedom but there is no real freedom, no real truth. Likewise, during the Prohibition there were drinks with alcohol taste but no alcohol. For the real thing, you have to come to Alt Right or to alternative news sites.

    Ban taverns, and people go to speakeasys.
    Ban free media, and people seek out writeeasys.

    Granted, Alt Right and other alternative news sites do have problems. Just like bootlegging and rum-running led to street wars, lunatic personalities, crooks, charlatans, thugs, and even toxic drink, there are all sorts of characters in the Alternative News universe. Alex Jones is like the Al Capone of Other News. He sometimes delivers the goods but other times acts the thug clown.
    Too many tommy guns in the Alternative News-verse.

    But as long MSM and academia keep too many things prohibited and banned, much of the real exchange of ideas and discussion will happen elsewhere.
    Bathtub gin isn’t as good as real gin, but it’s better than fake gin that just has the flavor but zero alcohol. MSM just offers fake gin.
    Likewise, Alt ideas and news may not be as good as professional news of the highest caliber, but when so much of MSM has turned into Peoples Daily or Official Scribe, it’s gonna be alternative news and people like Assange and Snowden who are gonna deliver what the Glob doesn’t want us to know.
    Consider NYT and so much it got wrong, from WMD in Iraq, to War on Russia, to Ukraine Crisis, to Libyan and Syrian crisis, to UVA hoax, etc. It might as well be declared a ‘fake news site’

    The only way to end bootlegging was to legalize alcohol.
    The only way to weaken alternative news is to allow true freedom in media and academia.
    And Steven Pinker and Jonathan Haidt seem to be halfway there, trying to allow respectable ways for alternative and even ‘dangerous’ voices to be heard and discussed.

    But the iron hysteria that dominates much of the Establishment channels of ideas and info simply don’t allow it.

    So, we will have our speakeasys, and we will have ganglord Trump as president since people find more truth in the kingpin than in the king-spin.

    PS. If alt right is like bootleggers and organic pot sellers, 14/88 and neo-nazis are like meth-and-crack pushers. Alt Right at its best offers what people want but can’t have due to PC.
    14/88 peddles toxic stuff that will only destroy minds and souls. To be avoided.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    In the West, the greatest POLITICAL INCORRECT statement are denying the Organized Jewry's narrative of Holocaust, Jewish power, and the occupation of Palestine (the Zionist entity). Politicians, academics, and religious leaders have lost their jobs or worse put in jails for making any statements those pillars of Zionism.

    On September 7, 2016, the UN ambassadors from Israel, US, Canada, and a delegation from European Union held one-day forum at United Nations headquarter in New York to fight antisemitism globally.

    The UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon didn’t attend the forum but sent a message via video-link.

    President of the UN General Assembly Mogens Lykketoft, former Danish foreign ministry irked the ambassadors and pro-Israel and Jewish audience claiming that criticism of the Zionist regime’s policies couldn’t be equated with hatred towards Jews.

    “We, the United Nations, have an enormous responsibility to go up against all expressions of prejudice and incitement. But we have to be extremely careful and precise in what is and what is not anti-Semitism. It’s not anti-Semitic to call for an end of the occupation and oppression of the people of Palestine, and to demand an end to illegal settlements on occupied Palestinian land,” Lykketoft said.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/09/10/chutzpah-antisemitism-forum-at-un/
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  54. @Buzz Mohawk

    The English language has the idiom “rats deserting a sinking ship.” I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.
     
    I have been thinking of this same idiom, from the time those rats jumped ship, to now as they climb back aboard.

    Now with regard to Sorkin stating,


    The Trumpsters want to see people like us (Jewish, “coastal elites,” educated, socially progressive, Hollywood …) sobbing and wailing and talking about moving to Canada. I won’t give them that and neither will you.
     
    It seems right there he just did give us at least some "sobbing and wailing." These people are blind, limp-wristed, and incapable of self-knowledge. Let's ignore them. Turn off the big rectangle with the bright lights and sounds. Read an old book.

    Turn off the big rectangle with the bright lights and sounds. Read an old book.

    Excellent advice, indeed.

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  55. @OutWest
    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.

    Actually, I’ve known many “Christians” who get around that by doing both pretty much simultaneously! ;)

    Read More
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  56. @ConcernedAmerican

    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.
     
    Jesus actually addressed that. He said:

    "And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man brought forth plentifully; and he thought to himself, 'What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?' and he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.'

    But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God." (Luke 12:16-21).

    We can never get the timing right because we never know when we are going to die. It may be 10 years from now, it may be 10 minutes from now. After all, how many people got up this morning and ended up dying in car crashes or from heart attacks or some freak accident? They didn't know when they got up that they would die today. Instead, they made plans for later that night or next week or next year, only to have today be their last day on earth.

    And once we are dead, it is too late to repent of our sins and believe in Jesus. As the Bible says:

    "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).

    This is why it's not a good idea for us to try to play games with God. He is holy and He will judge sin and we never know when our hearts will stop beating and our souls will be required of us. Any moment could be our last so we should take seriously what will happen to us after we die.

    A friend has the original of that on tape, it’s faded a bit, as magnetic tape does, but you can clearly hear Jesus speaking especially the bit where he says, “Fool”. It makes me shiver every time I play it.

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  57. Down here in the terrestrial sphere, there’s no doubt that one of the pleasures of winning an election is seeing the torments of the losers.

    As Dieter would say, ‘Their agony is gorgeous!’

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  58. TJM says:

    Americans just don’t get how pervasive and destructive the tribe truly is to us, I wish I didn’t.
    You can see Zionist Jewish influence in Wall Street, Washington “think tanks”, the “main street media”, education, but in entertainment, music and movies, it is most perverse (Perverse: showing a deliberate and obstinate desire to behave in a way that is unreasonable or unacceptable, often in spite of the consequences) and destructive.

    Let’s see, our colleges don’t protest wars, corporate injustice, but a pro-American president gets elected, and out come the signs and the rallies. They promote “multiculturalism”, open borders, while savage European Americans/white men, and painting all women and minorities as victims. Basically, they promote social disharmony.

    Wall Street, well while Wall Street makes more and more money, the rest of America withers on the vine…We all know the story and what NY City is…

    The main stream media, while POSSIBLY not 100% controlled by Zionist Jews, let’s just say it highly influenced by them. If “influenced means, if you speak a word against Israel, or make ANY reference to Jews, in anything but a flattering light, your carrier is over, period. While it promotes the race wars, hyping up white on black violence, and ignoring black on black or black on white violence. You will note how resistant to pointing out the ethnicity of a assailant in general, when reporting a crime, except if the perpetrator is white and the victim is black, then its front page news.

    Washington follows the same lines as the media, “Israel is our friend and closest ally”, spoken like mindless drones, because if they elaborate, they face a mind field of inconvenient truths. Everything Washington does works for the Zionists and against the American people. What business does America have confronting Russia, Putin, Syria, Iran, Iraq, China, Libya, Afghanistan…How does any of that serve the American public? Funny how Washington establishment screams everything someone promotes domestic spending, yet we always seem have money for wars around the world. And while Hillary was 100% backed by Zionist Jews, Mr. Trump accepted some big donations too, principally from top Zionist Sheldon Adelson. That money buys more than just a thank you…

    The power of Zionist Media to misinform the public, and to control the narrative is best illustrated with Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton, perhaps the most effective Zionist President, dismantled Glass-Steagal, NAFTA, CAFTA, Welfare “Reform” (turned it into a weapon against poor families, and promoted single parent house holds), DADT, DOMA (yes Clinton was anti-gay), in his 1996 Telecommunications Act allowed for the consolidation of media…And of his murderous machinations along with Soros in Eastern Europe, promoting genocide and war. Yet today you would thing Bill Clinton was the greatest most liberal democrat ever in office. He codified “identity politics” into American elections.
    But Hollywood is a class all by itself, because it lays the groundwork for much of our society, how we see ourselves. We only need to turn on the radio and see how the consolidation of music, under a few Jewish moguls, has absolutely destroyed the industry. Listening to music of the 60’s, 70’s, even 80’s and part of the 90’s, you see diversity, but today, music is a drum beat of hate, anger, perversion. What music denouncing war, Wall Street…they are the gate keepers, and if you want your book, movie, song produced, it better follow their well-defined narrative: White men are racist, mass migration is great, multiculturalism is good, money and greed are good…we all know what they preach, and it isn’t the Gospel.
    But the anti-white American (anti Muslims, anti-Christian; they can’t make a comedy without referencing the Catholic Church and pedophilia, YET Hollywood is a bastion of Pedophilia, yet you will never see that referenced, anti-white, pro-Latino, I don’t think you could call them pro-black as much as simply race baiting. This narrative flows through all TV shows, Music, movies.
    A great example was The Birth of a Nation (the white haters at the Sundance just loved it, it affirmed all their white male hating beliefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation_(2016_film), was a movie that exemplifies what Hollywood’s role is. Below is an excerpt from a critique of the movie, pointing out many of its inaccuracies. The point is though, the “inaccuracies” always flow in one direction, towards hate, violence, Anti-White male, pro-Jewish… (https://www.thenation.com/article/the-birth-of-a-nation-is-an-epic-fail/)
    Nearly everything in the movie—ranging from Turner’s relationship with his family, to his life as a slave, and even the rebellion itself—is a complete fabrication. Certainly, the film contains sprinklings of historical fact, but the bulk of Parker’s story about the rebellion is fictitious: Nat Turner did not murder his owner, nor did he kill a slave patroller. Turner’s rebellion was not betrayed by a young boy, or by anyone else involved in the revolt. To the contrary, the rebels fought until the bitter end. The shootout depicted in Jerusalem, Virginia, never happened, because the rebels were stopped by the militia before they ever reached Jerusalem. The list of inaccuracies, distortions, and fabrications goes on and on.
    Admittedly, historical accuracy probably matters more to me than to most people. And Parker was correct when he, somewhat flippantly, told journalist Anderson Cooper that “nothing is ever 100 percent historically accurate.” But how do we feel when the film contains only a smidgen of historical fact? And what if the historical inaccuracies are damaging and insidious?
    Consider, for example, the film’s troubling depictions of black women. A crucial turning point in the movie occurs when Turner’s wife, Cherry, is brutally gang raped by a group of slave patrollers—an attack the film portrays as the spark that ultimately drove Turner to launch his rebellion. But there is not a shred of historical evidence to suggest that Cherry was ever raped by slave patrollers, nor is there any evidence to indicate that an attack on his wife inspired Turner to rebel. By all accounts, Turner took up arms against slavery because he believed slavery was morally wrong and violated the law of God.
    So, in the movie, it lies and shows the hero of the movie, killing his owner, and a “slave patroller”, and more importantly it lies and shows black women being gang raped by white man, WHY?! This movie sold as historically accurate, what benefit to society would there be in showing a gang rape of a black women that never happened?! Because just like all movies, especially ones that touch on slavery, are there to promote the racial divide in America. It is a fact that Jews were heavily involved in the slave trade, ever wonder where Monsanto got its start. (http://ourjewishagenda.weebly.com/history.html)
    Most southerners were NOT SLAVES OWNERS, it was the 1% then, as it would be now. It certainly was not the norm for most Americans to own slaves, yet they paint slavery as the common man’s vice, it was the rich man’s. Just like the destruction of Indian lands, it was pushed from above, not from the masses. JUST LIKE TODAY, nothing changes, we have little control over the evil our government does in Iraq, Libya, Syria…They always put the shackles of histories ills on an entire nation, never putting them where they belong, on the ruling class, the oligarchs. You can get away with it when you own everything.
    The point is, such mass control of everything we see hear and learn, has given Jews a profound ability to form and control our reality, and can anyone argue, it is not working. Jews are not better or worse, but they are right there in the mud with the rest of us, often leading the way. We are always at war, we value money over community, we are supposed to be a “Christian Nation” are these Christian values, or someone else’s?
    We just have to look at Russia, our supposed “worst enemy”, to see what our oligarch’s control has wrought. Why is Russia our enemy, why are we on the brink of WW3, and why was Clinton, who was predominately supported by Zionist Jews, the one who was seen as the greatest threat to world peace? Russia is an Orthodox Christian nation, who have fought off the yoke of the Jewish oligarchs (to some degree) and maintain a culture that works together. We should be emulating them to some degree, seeing them as brothers, at least their people, maybe not their government. I am sick of war, I am sick of mass migration, and the destruction of my society and the demonization of my culture.

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    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @FLgeezer
    Great post TJM and a great synopsis. Thank you!
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  59. macilrae says:

    This is all so predictable – a Breaker of Icons appears and everybody panics. Don’t worry, within six months it will all settle down and few of the fears will be realized. Some of the more extreme threats could be seen as impossible just as soon as they were made: the completed Wall; the Balanced Budget; mass deportations – and somewhere I thought I heard that the National Debt would soon be repaid (perhaps that was just a dream)!

    If Donald does follow through on one of his objectives and heads off Cold War II it may all have been worth it.

    The System desperately needed a shake-up and my belief is that this is all it is going to amount to.

    By the way, similar panic is taking place now over Brexit.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "If Donald does follow through on one of his objectives and heads off Cold War II it may all have been worth it." - This one is the easiest to accomplish because it is purely intra governmental.
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  60. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Trump is a very exceptional man. He beat the Democratic party. He beat his own Republican party. He blew away not one but two political dynasties, the Bush and Clinton machines. He shook off the entire effort of the mass media united against him and which rained upon him the greatest amount of concocted sleaze in living memory. He brushed aside and mocked all the decadent celebrity airheads who came out against him. The sore losers are being shown for the anti-democracy commissars they really are.
    I’m expecting great things now, a straightening out of priorities. Eight years of argument over what transsexual subculture uses what bathroom has been fatiguing. Let’s have a turnabout in the general culture. The last twenty-five years have felt like an occupation government. Now, some fresh air. Ring the bells folks, let’s see if we can keep the momentum rolling.

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  61. res says:
    @Miro23

    The English language has the idiom “rats deserting a sinking ship.” I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.
     
    CYA Cover Your Ass

    I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.

    “Jumping on the bandwagon” seems like the appropriate English idiom, but might not have enough of the pejorative nature you are looking for. Perhaps preface it with rats or some other noun or turn it into something like “Cucks jumping on the Trump bandwagon.”

    Hopefully someone more creative than I am can come up with something even better.

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  62. @ConcernedAmerican

    Sounds good. The tricky part is in the timing –you don’t want to repent prematurely and miss too much fun.
     
    Jesus actually addressed that. He said:

    "And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man brought forth plentifully; and he thought to himself, 'What shall I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?' and he said, 'I will do this: I will pull down my barns, and build larger ones; and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.'

    But God said to him, 'Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?' So is he who lays up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God." (Luke 12:16-21).

    We can never get the timing right because we never know when we are going to die. It may be 10 years from now, it may be 10 minutes from now. After all, how many people got up this morning and ended up dying in car crashes or from heart attacks or some freak accident? They didn't know when they got up that they would die today. Instead, they made plans for later that night or next week or next year, only to have today be their last day on earth.

    And once we are dead, it is too late to repent of our sins and believe in Jesus. As the Bible says:

    "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).

    This is why it's not a good idea for us to try to play games with God. He is holy and He will judge sin and we never know when our hearts will stop beating and our souls will be required of us. Any moment could be our last so we should take seriously what will happen to us after we die.

    “… only to have today be their last day on earth.”

    Would really suck if today was my last day. Spent yesterday afternoon with my son on the roof fixing the damage from hurricane Matthew. Could have gone to the beach instead.

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  63. Rehmat says:

    Mr. Derbyshire … you seems to have problem with the LGBT community especially Jews and pro-Israel Christians.

    Aaron Sorkin started feeling uncomfortable in sleeping with Maureen Dowd after the Zionist whore claimed in a column at the JEW YORK TIMES that Mitt Romney and his sidekick Paul Ryan, were both controlled by the Zionist Jew “puppet master Dan Senor (Daniel Samuel Senor)”. Dan Senor, is a Fox News contributor and columnist with WSJ. Senor received his education in Toronto and Jerusalem. He was Paul Bremer’s spokesman in Iraq. He has written a best-selling book on the wonders of Israel. His sister runs AIPAC’s Jerusalem office and her husband is a far-right writer in Israel. He is an outspoken apologist for the anti-Muslim Israeli Likud.

    I’m sure if the ADL find out that you’re a “closet Jew hater” – you might be forced to beg a job at the Press TV….

    On December 27, 2013, Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, Israel’s deputy minister for religious studies, said that “even gay Jews have higher souls than all non-Jews, gay or straight”.

    https://rehmat1.com/2013/12/31/rabbi-gay-jews-have-higher-souls-than-gentiles/

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  64. Sorkin is one of the midwives of Trumpism. He allowed leftists to cocoon themselves in a near literal alternative reality during the Bush years where a fictional liberal President had all the answers, those answers were routinely the embrace of a paradox yielding conventional left wing cant, and where a multicultural Scooby gang of smart people with all the right credentials and all of the right consumptive habits in a room could resolve the problems of the nation and the world with the power of words. He convinced them that they had all the answers, that their politics were evidence of virtue, and that naturally those with adversarial politics were ignorant, base and vicious. (In addition to these criticisms, I always found Sorkin’s dialogue far too mincing, cute, and unbelievable – people simply don’t speak this way).

    Barack Obama in 2008 was a veritable Sorkin character made flesh – and he by and large governed as one in which words are themselves deeds and have magical powers to bring things and events into being. Meanwhile, the nation rotted from the underside and many on the left believed that the deplorables deserved the rot.

    The rot became unbearable

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  65. utu says:
    @macilrae
    This is all so predictable - a Breaker of Icons appears and everybody panics. Don't worry, within six months it will all settle down and few of the fears will be realized. Some of the more extreme threats could be seen as impossible just as soon as they were made: the completed Wall; the Balanced Budget; mass deportations - and somewhere I thought I heard that the National Debt would soon be repaid (perhaps that was just a dream)!

    If Donald does follow through on one of his objectives and heads off Cold War II it may all have been worth it.

    The System desperately needed a shake-up and my belief is that this is all it is going to amount to.

    By the way, similar panic is taking place now over Brexit.

    “If Donald does follow through on one of his objectives and heads off Cold War II it may all have been worth it.” – This one is the easiest to accomplish because it is purely intra governmental.

    Read More
    • Replies: @OutWest
    The president is Commander in Chief only of the armed forces. De facto war declared with the de facto authorization from congress to conduct war allows the president to be de facto Commander in Chief of the country as a whole.

    Maybe Trump will straighten this mess out. More likely congress will reassert its Constitutional authority and reduce the presidency to its proper executive role. Though a quaint idea, checks and balances could be useful in avoiding war.
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  66. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Twitter Goes Full Soviet

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    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    (from the video --) NEO-NAZI!!

    "use our first amendment rights to Speak out and not be scared!"


    Hang that swastika banner high and proud.
    Don't be scared.

    If the swastika can be banned,
    And the Confederate flag can be banned,
    Then so can the Stars and Stripes.

    ---

    First: "In history, you can't really say something happened in 1933 because something was going to happen in 1945. You can only explain things that happened in 1933 by events up to and including 1933. It’s very tempting to apply later events . . . but we can only understand historical events in terms of the causes that bring them about." -Yale Prof. Tim Snyder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcXMV-4HfXs

    Second: According to Breitman & Lichtman in FDR and the Jews,

    "Upon gaining power in 1933 . . . Some Nazi activists physically assaulted Jews in the early exuberant days of Hitler's semi legal revolution. Once secure in their authority, Nazi officials curbed personal violence . . . against Jews. Only in late 1938 . . . For the first time, the Gestapo imprisoned tens of thousands of German Jews in concentration camps."

     
    Third: Within weeks of Hitler's appointment to chancellorship, Jewish War Veterans organized a massive march in New York City.

    In subsequent weeks, Jews organized anti-German rallies in Madison Square Garden -- Rabbis donated funds to ensure all who wished to attend could do so.

    Rabbis spoke in their synagogues to organize anti-German protests and to promote the Jewish boycott of Germany.

    Jews held a Mock Trial of the German government and found it Guilty of ???

    Fourth: In 1933 James Waterman Wise, son of Rabbi Stephen Wise, published SWASTIKA: The Nazi Terror
    Wise's opening paragraph:

    BY DECREE ISSUED IN BERLIN MARCH 12 1933 THE Nazi banner together with that of the Old Empire was proclaimed the flag of Germany. Upon it was in-
    scribed the Swastika-symbolizing hatred of the Jew- and in that sign the new German Government, with Hitler at its head, declared and is waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens.
     
    The NSDAP did not proclaim their flag to be a banner of hate, James Waterman Wise did.
    The National Socialist anthem proclaimed that the German flag stood for "hope . . .bread and freedom;" Waterman Wise wrote that the flag of the German people symbolized "hatred of Jews."

    In fact, the Nazi banner looks a lot like the banner and symbol of Harvard sports teams, not at all implausible since Ernst Hanfstaengl, who used to lunch with Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt at Harvard, and who supported and financed Hitler's publication of Mein Kampf, claimed that the "Heil Hitler" salute was based on a Harvard cheer ritual.

    What's the point of this chronology?

    The shit that the financiers of an American color revolution are stirring up today sure as hell looks a lot like the shit that zionist Jews stirred up in New York and numerous other US and international cities as the NSDAP rose to power.
    As Breitman & Lichtman stated, the Third Reich proceeded non-violently, but with the intent to take legal measures to limit the influence Jews in Germany were exerting over German culture, politics and finance, just as many of us hope that Donald Trump will curtail the invidious influence of Israel firsters on US policy, politics, finance and culture.

    The paid protesters wave placards with bearing the swastika.

    Their crayoned cards should be trumped.

    Fly the Nazi banner, high and proud.

    The days of hope, bread and freedom are here!
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  67. FLgeezer says:
    @TJM
    Americans just don’t get how pervasive and destructive the tribe truly is to us, I wish I didn’t.
    You can see Zionist Jewish influence in Wall Street, Washington “think tanks”, the “main street media”, education, but in entertainment, music and movies, it is most perverse (Perverse: showing a deliberate and obstinate desire to behave in a way that is unreasonable or unacceptable, often in spite of the consequences) and destructive.

    Let’s see, our colleges don’t protest wars, corporate injustice, but a pro-American president gets elected, and out come the signs and the rallies. They promote “multiculturalism”, open borders, while savage European Americans/white men, and painting all women and minorities as victims. Basically, they promote social disharmony.

    Wall Street, well while Wall Street makes more and more money, the rest of America withers on the vine…We all know the story and what NY City is…

    The main stream media, while POSSIBLY not 100% controlled by Zionist Jews, let’s just say it highly influenced by them. If “influenced means, if you speak a word against Israel, or make ANY reference to Jews, in anything but a flattering light, your carrier is over, period. While it promotes the race wars, hyping up white on black violence, and ignoring black on black or black on white violence. You will note how resistant to pointing out the ethnicity of a assailant in general, when reporting a crime, except if the perpetrator is white and the victim is black, then its front page news.

    Washington follows the same lines as the media, “Israel is our friend and closest ally”, spoken like mindless drones, because if they elaborate, they face a mind field of inconvenient truths. Everything Washington does works for the Zionists and against the American people. What business does America have confronting Russia, Putin, Syria, Iran, Iraq, China, Libya, Afghanistan…How does any of that serve the American public? Funny how Washington establishment screams everything someone promotes domestic spending, yet we always seem have money for wars around the world. And while Hillary was 100% backed by Zionist Jews, Mr. Trump accepted some big donations too, principally from top Zionist Sheldon Adelson. That money buys more than just a thank you…

    The power of Zionist Media to misinform the public, and to control the narrative is best illustrated with Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton, perhaps the most effective Zionist President, dismantled Glass-Steagal, NAFTA, CAFTA, Welfare “Reform” (turned it into a weapon against poor families, and promoted single parent house holds), DADT, DOMA (yes Clinton was anti-gay), in his 1996 Telecommunications Act allowed for the consolidation of media…And of his murderous machinations along with Soros in Eastern Europe, promoting genocide and war. Yet today you would thing Bill Clinton was the greatest most liberal democrat ever in office. He codified “identity politics” into American elections.
    But Hollywood is a class all by itself, because it lays the groundwork for much of our society, how we see ourselves. We only need to turn on the radio and see how the consolidation of music, under a few Jewish moguls, has absolutely destroyed the industry. Listening to music of the 60’s, 70’s, even 80’s and part of the 90’s, you see diversity, but today, music is a drum beat of hate, anger, perversion. What music denouncing war, Wall Street…they are the gate keepers, and if you want your book, movie, song produced, it better follow their well-defined narrative: White men are racist, mass migration is great, multiculturalism is good, money and greed are good…we all know what they preach, and it isn’t the Gospel.
    But the anti-white American (anti Muslims, anti-Christian; they can’t make a comedy without referencing the Catholic Church and pedophilia, YET Hollywood is a bastion of Pedophilia, yet you will never see that referenced, anti-white, pro-Latino, I don’t think you could call them pro-black as much as simply race baiting. This narrative flows through all TV shows, Music, movies.
    A great example was The Birth of a Nation (the white haters at the Sundance just loved it, it affirmed all their white male hating beliefs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation_(2016_film), was a movie that exemplifies what Hollywood’s role is. Below is an excerpt from a critique of the movie, pointing out many of its inaccuracies. The point is though, the “inaccuracies” always flow in one direction, towards hate, violence, Anti-White male, pro-Jewish… (https://www.thenation.com/article/the-birth-of-a-nation-is-an-epic-fail/)
    Nearly everything in the movie—ranging from Turner’s relationship with his family, to his life as a slave, and even the rebellion itself—is a complete fabrication. Certainly, the film contains sprinklings of historical fact, but the bulk of Parker’s story about the rebellion is fictitious: Nat Turner did not murder his owner, nor did he kill a slave patroller. Turner’s rebellion was not betrayed by a young boy, or by anyone else involved in the revolt. To the contrary, the rebels fought until the bitter end. The shootout depicted in Jerusalem, Virginia, never happened, because the rebels were stopped by the militia before they ever reached Jerusalem. The list of inaccuracies, distortions, and fabrications goes on and on.
    Admittedly, historical accuracy probably matters more to me than to most people. And Parker was correct when he, somewhat flippantly, told journalist Anderson Cooper that “nothing is ever 100 percent historically accurate.” But how do we feel when the film contains only a smidgen of historical fact? And what if the historical inaccuracies are damaging and insidious?
    Consider, for example, the film’s troubling depictions of black women. A crucial turning point in the movie occurs when Turner’s wife, Cherry, is brutally gang raped by a group of slave patrollers—an attack the film portrays as the spark that ultimately drove Turner to launch his rebellion. But there is not a shred of historical evidence to suggest that Cherry was ever raped by slave patrollers, nor is there any evidence to indicate that an attack on his wife inspired Turner to rebel. By all accounts, Turner took up arms against slavery because he believed slavery was morally wrong and violated the law of God.
    So, in the movie, it lies and shows the hero of the movie, killing his owner, and a “slave patroller”, and more importantly it lies and shows black women being gang raped by white man, WHY?! This movie sold as historically accurate, what benefit to society would there be in showing a gang rape of a black women that never happened?! Because just like all movies, especially ones that touch on slavery, are there to promote the racial divide in America. It is a fact that Jews were heavily involved in the slave trade, ever wonder where Monsanto got its start. (http://ourjewishagenda.weebly.com/history.html)
    Most southerners were NOT SLAVES OWNERS, it was the 1% then, as it would be now. It certainly was not the norm for most Americans to own slaves, yet they paint slavery as the common man’s vice, it was the rich man’s. Just like the destruction of Indian lands, it was pushed from above, not from the masses. JUST LIKE TODAY, nothing changes, we have little control over the evil our government does in Iraq, Libya, Syria…They always put the shackles of histories ills on an entire nation, never putting them where they belong, on the ruling class, the oligarchs. You can get away with it when you own everything.
    The point is, such mass control of everything we see hear and learn, has given Jews a profound ability to form and control our reality, and can anyone argue, it is not working. Jews are not better or worse, but they are right there in the mud with the rest of us, often leading the way. We are always at war, we value money over community, we are supposed to be a “Christian Nation” are these Christian values, or someone else’s?
    We just have to look at Russia, our supposed “worst enemy”, to see what our oligarch’s control has wrought. Why is Russia our enemy, why are we on the brink of WW3, and why was Clinton, who was predominately supported by Zionist Jews, the one who was seen as the greatest threat to world peace? Russia is an Orthodox Christian nation, who have fought off the yoke of the Jewish oligarchs (to some degree) and maintain a culture that works together. We should be emulating them to some degree, seeing them as brothers, at least their people, maybe not their government. I am sick of war, I am sick of mass migration, and the destruction of my society and the demonization of my culture.

    Great post TJM and a great synopsis. Thank you!

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  68. OutWest says:
    @utu
    "If Donald does follow through on one of his objectives and heads off Cold War II it may all have been worth it." - This one is the easiest to accomplish because it is purely intra governmental.

    The president is Commander in Chief only of the armed forces. De facto war declared with the de facto authorization from congress to conduct war allows the president to be de facto Commander in Chief of the country as a whole.

    Maybe Trump will straighten this mess out. More likely congress will reassert its Constitutional authority and reduce the presidency to its proper executive role. Though a quaint idea, checks and balances could be useful in avoiding war.

    Read More
    • Replies: @utu
    "More likely congress will reassert its Constitutional authority" - Not likely. In 2013 President Obama invited Congress to make the decision about Syria knowing that they would chicken out. And they did. That's why Syria avoided the fate of Libya so far.
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  69. The film version of Sorkin’s best known play, A Few Good Men, is beloved by people of all political stripes. It’s best known scene, of course, is the climactic courtroom confrontation between the Tom Cruise character, Lt. Caffey, and Jack Nicholson’s evil Col. Jessup: “You can’t handle the truth!”

    Thing is, if you look a little closer, the film is anti-Gentile propaganda from Sorkin’s slightly paranoid perspective.

    The good guys? An obviously Jewish lawyer named “Weintraub” and a strong female character played by Demi Moore. Cruise plays a Gentile, but he is cleansed by virtue of the fact that he went to Harvard and is the son of a civil rights crusading attorney who fought segregation back in the 50s and 60s.

    The baddies? A bible quoting psychotic played by Keifer Sutherland and of course, Col. Jessup (Jesus?) played by Nicholson.

    The soldiers on trial are a dimwitted, diminutive white redneck who relies on his tall, mixed-race co-defendant to do all of his thinking for him.

    The Judge is black, of course.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alec Leamas

    The good guys? An obviously Jewish lawyer named “Weintraub” and a strong female character played by Demi Moore.
     
    It's Weinberg, but otherwise spot-on: Weinberg is the Jewish Jiminy Cricket whose scrupulous moral guidance is necessary so that we don't have too much sympathy for the white men (and magic negro) with guns who are actually charged with protecting the United States. Demi Moore's character Lt. Cdr. Galloway is the softening, maternal influence to counterbalance Weinberg's moral rectitude and point the blame at Jessup and Kendrick because the two enlisted Marines are too dumb to know better (they didn't almost flunk out of Syracuse, like Sorkin).

    Unfortunately for Sorkin - whose Jewish moral sense is 180 degrees out of phase with most of (Christian) America's - his dialogue together with Nicholson's natural charisma and ease at being a jerk made a popular antihero of Colonel Jessup. Most Americans agree with Jessup that they "want him on that wall, need him on that wall" and understand and accept the moral calculus of rough men with guns providing the blanket of freedom under which they sleep soundly. It's really a window into his mind that he thinks we should see a rough and gruff combat-tested Marine Colonel who talks about blowjobs in mixed company as the bad guy, and the liberal making time in the service who has a moral breakthrough under the guidance of the Jew, woman and Magic Negro as the hero.

    , @Anonym
    The baddies? A bible quoting psychotic played by Keifer Sutherland and of course, Col. Jessup (Jesus?) played by Nicholson.

    The hero in that movie is Nicholson. Just like everyone on the US side in Sicario bar Blunt and her partner were the good guys.

    But yes, that movie was written as something of a PC parable. Everyone - blacks, women, Jews holding down the white man like Gulliver being strapped down by Lilliputians. Now those bonds are being broken.
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  70. OutWest says:

    Have you noticed that movies claim creative license a reality (not the TV type) exemption and then assert a proven moral message out of their fantasy tale?

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    Have you noticed that movies claim creative license a reality (not the TV type) exemption and then assert a proven moral message out of their fantasy tale?
     
    Boy, howdy, I sure have noticed that. It's like they think their religions are better'n anybody else's. Bastards.
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  71. utu says:
    @OutWest
    The president is Commander in Chief only of the armed forces. De facto war declared with the de facto authorization from congress to conduct war allows the president to be de facto Commander in Chief of the country as a whole.

    Maybe Trump will straighten this mess out. More likely congress will reassert its Constitutional authority and reduce the presidency to its proper executive role. Though a quaint idea, checks and balances could be useful in avoiding war.

    “More likely congress will reassert its Constitutional authority” – Not likely. In 2013 President Obama invited Congress to make the decision about Syria knowing that they would chicken out. And they did. That’s why Syria avoided the fate of Libya so far.

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    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    In 2013 President Obama invited Congress to make the decision about Syria knowing that they would chicken out.

    You don't pass a declaration of no war. Avoiding the vote on a declaration of war is the same as voting against the war. Staying out was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, we supported the creation of ISIS instead.
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  72. Svigor says:

    And rending of clothes, and wearing of sackcloth. Don’t forget those, Derb.

    Their tears are delicious.

    I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.

    I laughed my ass off at that one. Nicely done, sirrah.

    (I read it again and laughed a second time.)

    [Ronald] Reagan spoke of “Poland’s struggle to be Poland.” And today, three decades later, history is about to repeat itself in the United States and in several West European countries. Of course, I am not comparing our current political elite with the Communist dictatorships with their prison cells for dissidents, but the fight of a nation to be itself, remain itself and defend its identity, that fight is also being waged today.

    People living under nakedly authoritarian regimes have it easier. The nature of their oppressors is readily apparent. They know exactly who the bad guys are, and what they’re up to. In the west, we have much subtler, more insidious regimes. They have rightly determined that the best way to make us extinct is to slowly indoctrinate us and breed us out. It’s much harder to resist such a subtle enemy.

    ***

    I suppose that at the time Catholic doctrine on the afterlife was set, man was a much harsher animal. Or maybe the Church relied on their dominance of letters (the flock being far less educated then). Either way, it’s entirely unsuited to modern, western man. Any fool can see that even a poor parent loves his children more than the Catholic* God loves man; only the worst parent would sentence his children to eternal torment for the sins commited in mortal life, never mind something as innocuous as rejecting a belief system. Parents, schmarents, even mere strangers in western societies are not that cruel to each other.

    This is another good reason that Christianity should be a religion, not an institution. Religions can adapt more readily than institutions.

    *There are lots of dumb Protestants with a similar doctrine, but it’s not at all universal. A close reading of Scripture supports a carrot-no-stick interpretation: salvation offers eternal life, end of story.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    I laughed my ass off at that one. Nicely done, sirrah.
     
    FYI, "sirrah" is a term used to express contempt.
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  73. Svigor says:

    It’s simple logic. Anything less would imply imperfection in divine justice.

    I guess I’m not smart enough to follow the simple logic. Care to unpack?

    Personally, I’d prefer a God whose mercy and compassion were greater than your typical commie apparatchik, not less.

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.

    Great so God destroys the souls of the “saved” as they “ascend” into Heaven.

    I may be wrong, but I think that the root of the problem is the frustration of spending centuries as a disrespected lower status minority in Europe and the Middle East (particularly Europe), although they did live-apart through their own choice.

    Jews were usually honored by monarchs and noble classes. Given authority over the peasants (so as to exploit them). Etc. Life as a Jew was better than life as a peasant. It was often better than life as a noble.

    No Christian takes in any pleasure in the damnation of anyone. God himself said that he takes no pleasure in the death of the sinner.

    Well, that’s big of him. He just condemns them to eternal torment, he doesn’t enjoy it. Consider me skeptical about that.

    We’re in a post-WII, post-60s era, where its assumed that the natural way to behave is to smother others with kindness, unless they’re a deplorable.

    No need to lay it at the left’s door. Catholic (etc.) God fails even “live and let live” levels of compassion. We down here on Earth live within constraints, under pressure, competition, etc. Some people would as soon cut your throat as look at you. And even we’re generally much more moral than this supposed God. And we have plenty of excuses for being hardasses. What’s His?

    Instead, you will face God’s righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins.

    I can’t worship a God that’s less moral than most of the people around me. This God has no sense of proportion; (eternity of suffering for (fill in anything you like here, doesn’t matter) done in a mortal life is not moral. In fact, He strikes me as evil. I wouldn’t want to be in Heaven with him.

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    How could the blessed not enjoy seeing a perfectly just punishment inflicted? The Orthodox church, though, tends to dwell less on such matters thanks to apophatic theology. "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for those that love him."
    , @Pat Casey
    The logic is very simple: you have to know the bad to appreciate the good; perfect knowledge of Hell imparts perfect appreciation for Heaven. Granted, it sort of sounds like St. Thomas is saying the saints will take delight in seeing the suffering of the damned, but that's because you're not following the argument.

    Now the Catholic Church has never claimed to understand eternal damnation except as eternal separation from God. Dante saw nine circles, and I tend to think that's the right idea, that hell has a hierarchy, (what doesn't have a hierarchy?) so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn't have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company. But heaven would still be infinitely better than the least bad rung of hell, and we can say just that because, as Derb will tell you, Cantor proved some infinities are bigger than others.

    What's God's excuse for being a hardass? I don't think that's the right word, but I don't think that what God is depends on God's whim. God said to Moses "I AM WHO I AM." I think that answers the deepest question Plato ever came up with, "Do the Gods love justice because it is good, Or is justice good because the Gods love it." To wit, I think God loves justice because it is good, and that he is who he is because he couldn't have loved anything else. What I'm saying is, I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God, and the ones who end up in Hell will somehow know to a certitude that is where they belong.

    Bertrand Russell said: “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.” I think God would say to him: "Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant's in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot."
    , @ConcernedAmerican

    I can’t worship a God that’s less moral than most of the people around me. This God has no sense of proportion; (eternity of suffering for (fill in anything you like here, doesn’t matter) done in a mortal life is not moral. In fact, He strikes me as evil. I wouldn’t want to be in Heaven with him.
     
    I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you change your mind before you die. Also, may I say that it is hubris for a human being to try to sit in judgment on God. God sits in judgment on us, we don't sit in judgment on Him. He is the Creator, we are the created ones.

    I know the idea of hell is upsetting. It bothers me also even though I believe what the Bible says about it. However, we as human beings tend not to take sin seriously or understand how bad it is. But God is holy and He is 100% holy, not 50% holy or 97.5% holy but 100% holy. In fact, God's holiness can be said to be His main characteristic. Isaiah 6:1-3 says the following:

    "In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the temple. Above Him stood the seraphim; each had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said:

    "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory."

    And there is a similar scene in Revelation 4:8 where the four living creatures around the throne sing "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"

    They don't say "Loving, loving, loving" or "Merciful, merciful, merciful" or "Forgiving, forgiving, forgiving" although God is all those things. Instead, they say "Holy, holy, holy" and because God is holy, He does hate sin and will judge it.

    However, as God is also incredibly loving, He provided a way for His holy wrath against sin to be satisfied and that way was to send His Son Jesus to die on a cross and pay for the sins of the world so that whoever believes in Him will have their sins forgiven. If, however, a person rejects the salvation offered through the death of Jesus Christ then that person's sins aren't forgiven and the person has to pay for his sins himself.

    And so both the wrath of God and the love of God can be seen at the cross.
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  74. Pat Casey says:
    @E. A. Costa
    Straight from Tertullian, dear fellow. The problem with using Old Testament sources like this to cover the trail is, well, er--the Hebrews did not have a transphysical afterlife with Heaven and Hell, so it is not pertinent to the question of what the blessed may see or not see according to their nature.

    Tertullian was a Montanist, which gives the Roman Catholic ideologues the willies, since many Montanists were considered heretics, but not at New Carthage.

    It is still very hush-hush in certain circles but Tertullian is in many ways the originator of Latin Christianity.

    No no NO. St. Thomas is not ripping off Tertullian, idiot. You and Derb don’t understand the argument, which is actually very simple. The idea is that you need to know the bad to appreciate the good; eternal bliss requires a knowledge of eternal damnation in order to be perfectly experienced. And this is the really key distinction: observing the suffering of the damned does not give the saints pleasure; the sight rather gives them perfect horror, that thus they may pefectly cherish the goodness of Heaven. And the charity of divine justice is right there, because the saints will so to speak feel your pain if you go to hell; and since self-pity is probably the default state of mind for the damned, that the saints feel sorry for them would be the greatest consolation they can imagine, since nothing satisfies self-pity like receiving the sorrow of others.

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    You are the idiot, mon ami. Aquinas' is a theological analysis of a situation and problem first broached by Tertullian and which Aquinas could never have been led to on his own.

    Very little about heaven and hell, for example, in Aristotle, jeje.

    At any rate, mon ami, you illustrate perfectly the Roman Catholic ideologues' willies over anything that has its origins in Tertullian. Which by the way also includes his first use of the word Trinitas.

    Pardon the interruption to your doctrinal slumbers, mon ami. Sleep tight.

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  75. @Patrick in SC
    The film version of Sorkin's best known play, A Few Good Men, is beloved by people of all political stripes. It's best known scene, of course, is the climactic courtroom confrontation between the Tom Cruise character, Lt. Caffey, and Jack Nicholson's evil Col. Jessup: "You can't handle the truth!"

    Thing is, if you look a little closer, the film is anti-Gentile propaganda from Sorkin's slightly paranoid perspective.

    The good guys? An obviously Jewish lawyer named "Weintraub" and a strong female character played by Demi Moore. Cruise plays a Gentile, but he is cleansed by virtue of the fact that he went to Harvard and is the son of a civil rights crusading attorney who fought segregation back in the 50s and 60s.

    The baddies? A bible quoting psychotic played by Keifer Sutherland and of course, Col. Jessup (Jesus?) played by Nicholson.

    The soldiers on trial are a dimwitted, diminutive white redneck who relies on his tall, mixed-race co-defendant to do all of his thinking for him.

    The Judge is black, of course.

    The good guys? An obviously Jewish lawyer named “Weintraub” and a strong female character played by Demi Moore.

    It’s Weinberg, but otherwise spot-on: Weinberg is the Jewish Jiminy Cricket whose scrupulous moral guidance is necessary so that we don’t have too much sympathy for the white men (and magic negro) with guns who are actually charged with protecting the United States. Demi Moore’s character Lt. Cdr. Galloway is the softening, maternal influence to counterbalance Weinberg’s moral rectitude and point the blame at Jessup and Kendrick because the two enlisted Marines are too dumb to know better (they didn’t almost flunk out of Syracuse, like Sorkin).

    Unfortunately for Sorkin – whose Jewish moral sense is 180 degrees out of phase with most of (Christian) America’s – his dialogue together with Nicholson’s natural charisma and ease at being a jerk made a popular antihero of Colonel Jessup. Most Americans agree with Jessup that they “want him on that wall, need him on that wall” and understand and accept the moral calculus of rough men with guns providing the blanket of freedom under which they sleep soundly. It’s really a window into his mind that he thinks we should see a rough and gruff combat-tested Marine Colonel who talks about blowjobs in mixed company as the bad guy, and the liberal making time in the service who has a moral breakthrough under the guidance of the Jew, woman and Magic Negro as the hero.

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  76. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @ConcernedAmerican

    If St Thomas Aquinas got it right, and Heaven is half as much fun as this, I’m going to be very good indeed from now on in hopes of getting there at last.
     
    Actually, you can never be "good enough" to get into heaven. I don't say this to be offensive. I can never be good enough either nor can anybody else. This is because as human beings we are sinners. God, however, is holy and because He is holy, He hates sin and will judge sin.
    And so we can never work our way to heaven because all of the good things that we do are not enough to take away the bad things we do.

    For example, if you have ever broken any of the Ten Commandments, either in deed or thought, you have sinned and cannot get into heaven on the basis of your performance. In fact, if you have ever committed any sin, you cannot get into heaven by trying to work your way there. Instead, you will face God's righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins. By asking Jesus to forgive you for your sins and asking him to come into your heart and be your Lord and Savior, your sins will be forgiven and you will go to heaven when you die due to what Jesus did on the cross, not due to your own performance or trying to work your way to heaven. As the Bible says:

    "...without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins." (Hebrews 9:22).

    The only way to have peace with God and go to heaven is through faith in Jesus Christ and His death on the cross because it is only through the shedding of His blood that our sins are forgiven. There is no other way.

    Gadzookerino, what pathetically wacky religiosity. So sick, so laughable, so sad. Ick. Grow a brain, man

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    Gadzookerino, what pathetically wacky religiosity. So sick, so laughable, so sad. Ick. Grow a brain, man
     
    "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Corinthians 1:18).
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  77. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @szopen
    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)

    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)

    Let’s make those Catholics take qualifying IQ tests. It’s the only way they can learn.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    All right, I'll bite.

    Learn what? And how would having taken an IQ test help me to do so?
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  78. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @OutWest
    Have you noticed that movies claim creative license a reality (not the TV type) exemption and then assert a proven moral message out of their fantasy tale?

    Have you noticed that movies claim creative license a reality (not the TV type) exemption and then assert a proven moral message out of their fantasy tale?

    Boy, howdy, I sure have noticed that. It’s like they think their religions are better’n anybody else’s. Bastards.

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  79. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @Svigor
    And rending of clothes, and wearing of sackcloth. Don't forget those, Derb.

    Their tears are delicious.

    I can’t think of a phrase that expresses the reverse thing, rats scampering to get back on the ship as she hoists sail and starts to pick up speed, but there really ought to be one.
     
    I laughed my ass off at that one. Nicely done, sirrah.

    (I read it again and laughed a second time.)

    [Ronald] Reagan spoke of “Poland’s struggle to be Poland.” And today, three decades later, history is about to repeat itself in the United States and in several West European countries. Of course, I am not comparing our current political elite with the Communist dictatorships with their prison cells for dissidents, but the fight of a nation to be itself, remain itself and defend its identity, that fight is also being waged today.
     
    People living under nakedly authoritarian regimes have it easier. The nature of their oppressors is readily apparent. They know exactly who the bad guys are, and what they're up to. In the west, we have much subtler, more insidious regimes. They have rightly determined that the best way to make us extinct is to slowly indoctrinate us and breed us out. It's much harder to resist such a subtle enemy.

    ***

    I suppose that at the time Catholic doctrine on the afterlife was set, man was a much harsher animal. Or maybe the Church relied on their dominance of letters (the flock being far less educated then). Either way, it's entirely unsuited to modern, western man. Any fool can see that even a poor parent loves his children more than the Catholic* God loves man; only the worst parent would sentence his children to eternal torment for the sins commited in mortal life, never mind something as innocuous as rejecting a belief system. Parents, schmarents, even mere strangers in western societies are not that cruel to each other.

    This is another good reason that Christianity should be a religion, not an institution. Religions can adapt more readily than institutions.

    *There are lots of dumb Protestants with a similar doctrine, but it's not at all universal. A close reading of Scripture supports a carrot-no-stick interpretation: salvation offers eternal life, end of story.

    I laughed my ass off at that one. Nicely done, sirrah.

    FYI, “sirrah” is a term used to express contempt.

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  80. @Anonymous

    St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.
     
    Thanks. I didn't know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
    Christianity's weakness and its subjection to nasty attacks from all sides make it easy to get unaware of its historical baseness.

    Actually, he wasn’t, and the author has not even bothered to look up what he actually said.

    “… in order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.” (Summa of Theology, Supplement, 94, response)

    The blessed will not enjoy or relish the sufferings of others, but rather they will in knowing those sufferings be even more grateful that they were granted, and responded to, graces to attain eternal happiness.

    Actually, that’s about the way I would say we should be about those in countries being undermined by idiots or persons who are tyrannical and evil, or about persons who make choices unwisely and suffer bad consequences.

    I don’t wish sufferings on anyone. But in witnessing the consequences to themselves of bad choices by others, I am grateful that I have not made or done the same.

    That includes what I see going on in many European and socialist countries, even in countries dominated by Islam and its insane Shariah law.

    I feel pity and sadness for those under such burdens and am even more grateful I am not.

    To do otherwise is to be petty, vindictive and malicious.

    And actually, I think Aquinas’ line of thought about this in many ways jives with the way most average hard-working decent Americans I know tend to be.

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  81. 5371 says:
    @Svigor

    It’s simple logic. Anything less would imply imperfection in divine justice.
     
    I guess I'm not smart enough to follow the simple logic. Care to unpack?

    Personally, I'd prefer a God whose mercy and compassion were greater than your typical commie apparatchik, not less.

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.
     
    Great so God destroys the souls of the "saved" as they "ascend" into Heaven.

    I may be wrong, but I think that the root of the problem is the frustration of spending centuries as a disrespected lower status minority in Europe and the Middle East (particularly Europe), although they did live-apart through their own choice.
     
    Jews were usually honored by monarchs and noble classes. Given authority over the peasants (so as to exploit them). Etc. Life as a Jew was better than life as a peasant. It was often better than life as a noble.

    No Christian takes in any pleasure in the damnation of anyone. God himself said that he takes no pleasure in the death of the sinner.
     
    Well, that's big of him. He just condemns them to eternal torment, he doesn't enjoy it. Consider me skeptical about that.

    We’re in a post-WII, post-60s era, where its assumed that the natural way to behave is to smother others with kindness, unless they’re a deplorable.
     
    No need to lay it at the left's door. Catholic (etc.) God fails even "live and let live" levels of compassion. We down here on Earth live within constraints, under pressure, competition, etc. Some people would as soon cut your throat as look at you. And even we're generally much more moral than this supposed God. And we have plenty of excuses for being hardasses. What's His?

    Instead, you will face God’s righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins.
     
    I can't worship a God that's less moral than most of the people around me. This God has no sense of proportion; (eternity of suffering for (fill in anything you like here, doesn't matter) done in a mortal life is not moral. In fact, He strikes me as evil. I wouldn't want to be in Heaven with him.

    How could the blessed not enjoy seeing a perfectly just punishment inflicted? The Orthodox church, though, tends to dwell less on such matters thanks to apophatic theology. “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for those that love him.”

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  82. Rehmat says:
    @Anon
    Political Correctness is Speech Prohibition.

    Prohibition tried to force Virtue into all corners of life by banning alcohol. It just led to the underworld, gangsters, and shadow economy taking over the liquor business. The only solution was to legalize alcohol and make it legit.

    It's been the same with marijuana. The War on Drugs has been a big bust.
    Now, the War on Drugs can be won with draconian measures, as in communist nations. But in a free society, the business will just go underground, and gangsters will make a killing. All that money that could be in the hands of legit business ends up in the hands of druglords.

    Same goes with Speech. PC is War on Speech or Speech War. But it is difficult for the State and Establishment to wage this Speech War in the age of the internet.

    Since MSM and Academia have banned free speech and free discourse with their PC speech prohibition, Alt Right has become the Speakeasy of free speech.
    They offer bootleg speech that can't be had anywhere else. And some of that stuff is so potent and powerful that once people get a taste, they want some more since they are so tired of the Lawrence O'Donnells and Eric Ericksons of the world who must stick to Script.

    MSM may offer the conceit or flavor of freedom but there is no real freedom, no real truth. Likewise, during the Prohibition there were drinks with alcohol taste but no alcohol. For the real thing, you have to come to Alt Right or to alternative news sites.

    Ban taverns, and people go to speakeasys.
    Ban free media, and people seek out writeeasys.

    Granted, Alt Right and other alternative news sites do have problems. Just like bootlegging and rum-running led to street wars, lunatic personalities, crooks, charlatans, thugs, and even toxic drink, there are all sorts of characters in the Alternative News universe. Alex Jones is like the Al Capone of Other News. He sometimes delivers the goods but other times acts the thug clown.
    Too many tommy guns in the Alternative News-verse.

    But as long MSM and academia keep too many things prohibited and banned, much of the real exchange of ideas and discussion will happen elsewhere.
    Bathtub gin isn't as good as real gin, but it's better than fake gin that just has the flavor but zero alcohol. MSM just offers fake gin.
    Likewise, Alt ideas and news may not be as good as professional news of the highest caliber, but when so much of MSM has turned into Peoples Daily or Official Scribe, it's gonna be alternative news and people like Assange and Snowden who are gonna deliver what the Glob doesn't want us to know.
    Consider NYT and so much it got wrong, from WMD in Iraq, to War on Russia, to Ukraine Crisis, to Libyan and Syrian crisis, to UVA hoax, etc. It might as well be declared a 'fake news site'

    The only way to end bootlegging was to legalize alcohol.
    The only way to weaken alternative news is to allow true freedom in media and academia.
    And Steven Pinker and Jonathan Haidt seem to be halfway there, trying to allow respectable ways for alternative and even 'dangerous' voices to be heard and discussed.

    But the iron hysteria that dominates much of the Establishment channels of ideas and info simply don't allow it.

    So, we will have our speakeasys, and we will have ganglord Trump as president since people find more truth in the kingpin than in the king-spin.

    PS. If alt right is like bootleggers and organic pot sellers, 14/88 and neo-nazis are like meth-and-crack pushers. Alt Right at its best offers what people want but can't have due to PC.
    14/88 peddles toxic stuff that will only destroy minds and souls. To be avoided.

    In the West, the greatest POLITICAL INCORRECT statement are denying the Organized Jewry’s narrative of Holocaust, Jewish power, and the occupation of Palestine (the Zionist entity). Politicians, academics, and religious leaders have lost their jobs or worse put in jails for making any statements those pillars of Zionism.

    On September 7, 2016, the UN ambassadors from Israel, US, Canada, and a delegation from European Union held one-day forum at United Nations headquarter in New York to fight antisemitism globally.

    The UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon didn’t attend the forum but sent a message via video-link.

    President of the UN General Assembly Mogens Lykketoft, former Danish foreign ministry irked the ambassadors and pro-Israel and Jewish audience claiming that criticism of the Zionist regime’s policies couldn’t be equated with hatred towards Jews.

    “We, the United Nations, have an enormous responsibility to go up against all expressions of prejudice and incitement. But we have to be extremely careful and precise in what is and what is not anti-Semitism. It’s not anti-Semitic to call for an end of the occupation and oppression of the people of Palestine, and to demand an end to illegal settlements on occupied Palestinian land,” Lykketoft said.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/09/10/chutzpah-antisemitism-forum-at-un/

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  83. MarkinLA says:
    @utu
    "More likely congress will reassert its Constitutional authority" - Not likely. In 2013 President Obama invited Congress to make the decision about Syria knowing that they would chicken out. And they did. That's why Syria avoided the fate of Libya so far.

    In 2013 President Obama invited Congress to make the decision about Syria knowing that they would chicken out.

    You don’t pass a declaration of no war. Avoiding the vote on a declaration of war is the same as voting against the war. Staying out was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, we supported the creation of ISIS instead.

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    • Replies: @utu
    You miss the point. Congress would be perfectly happy if Obama on 2013 gave the green light to the no-fly zone over Syria and bombing.
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  84. utu says:
    @MarkinLA
    In 2013 President Obama invited Congress to make the decision about Syria knowing that they would chicken out.

    You don't pass a declaration of no war. Avoiding the vote on a declaration of war is the same as voting against the war. Staying out was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, we supported the creation of ISIS instead.

    You miss the point. Congress would be perfectly happy if Obama on 2013 gave the green light to the no-fly zone over Syria and bombing.

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  85. Svigor says:

    FYI, “sirrah” is a term used to express contempt.

    I did not know that. Thanks. :)

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  86. nsa says:

    Imagine a postmodern Jooiewood viking movie. As the viking vessel gets closer to the camera, the butts-in-the-seats begin to discern the oars-persons. Sprinkled amongst 25 blond white guys are 3 afros looking dapper in their horned helmets, 2 asians looking not so dapper, 1 fag (ring in both ears), 1 trannie (giant adams apple), 1 obese white lesbian, 1 whopper afro female, 1 one armed samoan, and 1 guy in a wheelchair. The vessel is flying what looks to be a crude rainbow flag with peace symbols on the bow.

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  87. Pat Casey says:
    @Svigor

    It’s simple logic. Anything less would imply imperfection in divine justice.
     
    I guess I'm not smart enough to follow the simple logic. Care to unpack?

    Personally, I'd prefer a God whose mercy and compassion were greater than your typical commie apparatchik, not less.

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.
     
    Great so God destroys the souls of the "saved" as they "ascend" into Heaven.

    I may be wrong, but I think that the root of the problem is the frustration of spending centuries as a disrespected lower status minority in Europe and the Middle East (particularly Europe), although they did live-apart through their own choice.
     
    Jews were usually honored by monarchs and noble classes. Given authority over the peasants (so as to exploit them). Etc. Life as a Jew was better than life as a peasant. It was often better than life as a noble.

    No Christian takes in any pleasure in the damnation of anyone. God himself said that he takes no pleasure in the death of the sinner.
     
    Well, that's big of him. He just condemns them to eternal torment, he doesn't enjoy it. Consider me skeptical about that.

    We’re in a post-WII, post-60s era, where its assumed that the natural way to behave is to smother others with kindness, unless they’re a deplorable.
     
    No need to lay it at the left's door. Catholic (etc.) God fails even "live and let live" levels of compassion. We down here on Earth live within constraints, under pressure, competition, etc. Some people would as soon cut your throat as look at you. And even we're generally much more moral than this supposed God. And we have plenty of excuses for being hardasses. What's His?

    Instead, you will face God’s righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins.
     
    I can't worship a God that's less moral than most of the people around me. This God has no sense of proportion; (eternity of suffering for (fill in anything you like here, doesn't matter) done in a mortal life is not moral. In fact, He strikes me as evil. I wouldn't want to be in Heaven with him.

    The logic is very simple: you have to know the bad to appreciate the good; perfect knowledge of Hell imparts perfect appreciation for Heaven. Granted, it sort of sounds like St. Thomas is saying the saints will take delight in seeing the suffering of the damned, but that’s because you’re not following the argument.

    Now the Catholic Church has never claimed to understand eternal damnation except as eternal separation from God. Dante saw nine circles, and I tend to think that’s the right idea, that hell has a hierarchy, (what doesn’t have a hierarchy?) so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn’t have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company. But heaven would still be infinitely better than the least bad rung of hell, and we can say just that because, as Derb will tell you, Cantor proved some infinities are bigger than others.

    What’s God’s excuse for being a hardass? I don’t think that’s the right word, but I don’t think that what God is depends on God’s whim. God said to Moses “I AM WHO I AM.” I think that answers the deepest question Plato ever came up with, “Do the Gods love justice because it is good, Or is justice good because the Gods love it.” To wit, I think God loves justice because it is good, and that he is who he is because he couldn’t have loved anything else. What I’m saying is, I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God, and the ones who end up in Hell will somehow know to a certitude that is where they belong.

    Bertrand Russell said: “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.” I think God would say to him: “Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant’s in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    I think God would say to him: “Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant’s in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot.”
     
    You guys are peculiarly all the same. All of you are fanatically convinced that your particular variation on "God", what "God" wants, what "God" thinks, what "God" is going to do, etc., is the absolute sine qua non of all interpretations of "God".

    Russell would laugh in your face. You're a charlatan.
    , @utu
    I liked this comment v. much!
    , @5371
    [God said to Moses “I AM WHO I AM.”]

    And that's why we say to each other, "b urself."

    [I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God]

    How can anything be prior to God?
    , @ConcernedAmerican

    so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn’t have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company.
     
    The Bible says:

    "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it; from His presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life.

    And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15).

    The idea that anybody is going to either be having a good time in hell or that it won't be so bad is not supported by the numerous Bible verses regarding hell. In fact, Jesus talked more about hell than heaven.

    Jesus also willingly died on a cross and shed His blood because "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16). Why would He have done this if hell wasn't real and a place of torment?

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  88. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @Pat Casey
    The logic is very simple: you have to know the bad to appreciate the good; perfect knowledge of Hell imparts perfect appreciation for Heaven. Granted, it sort of sounds like St. Thomas is saying the saints will take delight in seeing the suffering of the damned, but that's because you're not following the argument.

    Now the Catholic Church has never claimed to understand eternal damnation except as eternal separation from God. Dante saw nine circles, and I tend to think that's the right idea, that hell has a hierarchy, (what doesn't have a hierarchy?) so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn't have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company. But heaven would still be infinitely better than the least bad rung of hell, and we can say just that because, as Derb will tell you, Cantor proved some infinities are bigger than others.

    What's God's excuse for being a hardass? I don't think that's the right word, but I don't think that what God is depends on God's whim. God said to Moses "I AM WHO I AM." I think that answers the deepest question Plato ever came up with, "Do the Gods love justice because it is good, Or is justice good because the Gods love it." To wit, I think God loves justice because it is good, and that he is who he is because he couldn't have loved anything else. What I'm saying is, I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God, and the ones who end up in Hell will somehow know to a certitude that is where they belong.

    Bertrand Russell said: “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.” I think God would say to him: "Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant's in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot."

    I think God would say to him: “Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant’s in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot.”

    You guys are peculiarly all the same. All of you are fanatically convinced that your particular variation on “God”, what “God” wants, what “God” thinks, what “God” is going to do, etc., is the absolute sine qua non of all interpretations of “God”.

    Russell would laugh in your face. You’re a charlatan.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    If "Russell" is "Kip Russell", this would very likely be the case. However, Bertrand Russell had far too much taste to go around laughing in people's faces. Lord Russell (I have no way of knowing whether "Kip" also goes by that title, but I will make the statistically likely assumption that he does not) was brought up to be polite, and so he generally was. So far from laughing in the faces of those who believed in God (an action which, if repeated, would have caused people to think him a lunatic, or, if during the Blitz, perhaps shellshocked) he went back-and-forth on the question of God's existence, and had some very civil exchanges with theists, including a very well-known one with Fr. Copleton, SJ.

    I assume you know these things; I'm not trying to introduce new facts into the conversation, but to avoid the calumniation of a respectable man.

    , @NoseytheDuke
    The late, great Bill Hicks referred to people who liked to interpret scripture as saying, "What God mean't to say…"
    , @Pat Casey
    Fanatically convinced? Please note the number of times you read "I think." I understand that speculating about God can seem presumptuous and self-revealing. But I wasn't explaining the infinite greatness of God, and the obvious question is, how do you know so much better? Well of course the truth is you don't know better. And actually I do know that I'm better at speculating about God than you are, for at least two big reasons. One because when I was in college I came up with an entirely original theodicy, hard to say how long it's been since that happened, and it was even the most elegant one yet, and did not depend on any assumption of any school of theology. I would go ahead and share that with you if you asked me nicely, but one thing we believe is that God likes us to store our treasures up in Heaven, so I'm content to say that you should probably worry about the possibility that God is not interested in you, because your brand of wickedness is certainly not aesthetic. Second of all, I recently read that I'm not the only one around here who has known a miracle, but its kind of a point of pride for me that mine was as cool as they get. And that's the thing, that's exactly the thing, because when it stopped being just so much awe, and I finally remembered a detail about right before it happened, that's when the mystery of the miracle was revealed, why it happened and what it meant was suddenly with me when I received the grace of understanding, and then I could imagine more than awe: God is most of all just really really totally COOL.
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  89. utu says:
    @Pat Casey
    The logic is very simple: you have to know the bad to appreciate the good; perfect knowledge of Hell imparts perfect appreciation for Heaven. Granted, it sort of sounds like St. Thomas is saying the saints will take delight in seeing the suffering of the damned, but that's because you're not following the argument.

    Now the Catholic Church has never claimed to understand eternal damnation except as eternal separation from God. Dante saw nine circles, and I tend to think that's the right idea, that hell has a hierarchy, (what doesn't have a hierarchy?) so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn't have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company. But heaven would still be infinitely better than the least bad rung of hell, and we can say just that because, as Derb will tell you, Cantor proved some infinities are bigger than others.

    What's God's excuse for being a hardass? I don't think that's the right word, but I don't think that what God is depends on God's whim. God said to Moses "I AM WHO I AM." I think that answers the deepest question Plato ever came up with, "Do the Gods love justice because it is good, Or is justice good because the Gods love it." To wit, I think God loves justice because it is good, and that he is who he is because he couldn't have loved anything else. What I'm saying is, I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God, and the ones who end up in Hell will somehow know to a certitude that is where they belong.

    Bertrand Russell said: “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.” I think God would say to him: "Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant's in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot."

    I liked this comment v. much!

    Read More
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  90. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    I think God would say to him: “Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant’s in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot.”
     
    You guys are peculiarly all the same. All of you are fanatically convinced that your particular variation on "God", what "God" wants, what "God" thinks, what "God" is going to do, etc., is the absolute sine qua non of all interpretations of "God".

    Russell would laugh in your face. You're a charlatan.

    If “Russell” is “Kip Russell”, this would very likely be the case. However, Bertrand Russell had far too much taste to go around laughing in people’s faces. Lord Russell (I have no way of knowing whether “Kip” also goes by that title, but I will make the statistically likely assumption that he does not) was brought up to be polite, and so he generally was. So far from laughing in the faces of those who believed in God (an action which, if repeated, would have caused people to think him a lunatic, or, if during the Blitz, perhaps shellshocked) he went back-and-forth on the question of God’s existence, and had some very civil exchanges with theists, including a very well-known one with Fr. Copleton, SJ.

    I assume you know these things; I’m not trying to introduce new facts into the conversation, but to avoid the calumniation of a respectable man.

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith

    I assume you know these things
     
    I sure do.

    However, Bertrand Russell had far too much taste to go around laughing in people’s faces.
     
    An unwarranted assumption.
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  91. @Pat Casey
    No no NO. St. Thomas is not ripping off Tertullian, idiot. You and Derb don't understand the argument, which is actually very simple. The idea is that you need to know the bad to appreciate the good; eternal bliss requires a knowledge of eternal damnation in order to be perfectly experienced. And this is the really key distinction: observing the suffering of the damned does not give the saints pleasure; the sight rather gives them perfect horror, that thus they may pefectly cherish the goodness of Heaven. And the charity of divine justice is right there, because the saints will so to speak feel your pain if you go to hell; and since self-pity is probably the default state of mind for the damned, that the saints feel sorry for them would be the greatest consolation they can imagine, since nothing satisfies self-pity like receiving the sorrow of others.

    You are the idiot, mon ami. Aquinas’ is a theological analysis of a situation and problem first broached by Tertullian and which Aquinas could never have been led to on his own.

    Very little about heaven and hell, for example, in Aristotle, jeje.

    At any rate, mon ami, you illustrate perfectly the Roman Catholic ideologues’ willies over anything that has its origins in Tertullian. Which by the way also includes his first use of the word Trinitas.

    Pardon the interruption to your doctrinal slumbers, mon ami. Sleep tight.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    Look I can remember reading all about Tertullian fourteen years ago out of a two volume history of christianity given to me by a Priest. What abideth in memory? He was early and controversial. (Tertullian sounds like a villain's name to me.) Now I've read his wikipedia page and the Montanism wikipedia page and a couple of blog posts. The Montanist wikipedia page says he was not a Montanist, as you claim, that is the common misconception of what his positive judgement of them meant, but perhaps you know that's the cod. I want to know why he decided in 207 that their prophecies were true. But so anyways, the Roman Catholic "ideologues" who get the "willies," are they the ones who keep it "hush hush" that Tertullian has been called what wikipedia includes in the first paragraph, "the father of latin christianity"?

    Obviously this a hobby horse of yours and I guess you think it's indicative of how Roman Catholics are unreliable about the history of the early church and this proves all the sects and heresies that disappeared were the true Christians or something, but well, me personally, I think that History is a branch and maybe a minor-branch of fiction and that any version of any history is more or less a story and more or less literary and as I said it should aspire to fiction. I would like to know why I should care that Tertullian is passed over by Roman Catholics. What do you think that proves or suggests?

    Finally, I did want to dig my heals in on this deeply, but I think we have to say, in the fullest sense of what St. Thomas said, the damned suffer more by the fact of those in heaven watching them, that's what makes it more "conspicuous." That troubles me, profoundly, and I have to confess it to untrouble myself. The point sounds like St. Augustine and I had thought St. Thomas was over that. I won't say I'm a bigger idiot than you though, I think my idea is more true than St. Thomas knew, and basically a pretty brilliant misreading. Alas, nothing is more numbing than thinking how long eternity lasts.
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  92. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @Anon
    If "Russell" is "Kip Russell", this would very likely be the case. However, Bertrand Russell had far too much taste to go around laughing in people's faces. Lord Russell (I have no way of knowing whether "Kip" also goes by that title, but I will make the statistically likely assumption that he does not) was brought up to be polite, and so he generally was. So far from laughing in the faces of those who believed in God (an action which, if repeated, would have caused people to think him a lunatic, or, if during the Blitz, perhaps shellshocked) he went back-and-forth on the question of God's existence, and had some very civil exchanges with theists, including a very well-known one with Fr. Copleton, SJ.

    I assume you know these things; I'm not trying to introduce new facts into the conversation, but to avoid the calumniation of a respectable man.

    I assume you know these things

    I sure do.

    However, Bertrand Russell had far too much taste to go around laughing in people’s faces.

    An unwarranted assumption.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anon
    Might make a good premise for an SF story- Bertrand Russell travels back in time - maybe during plane crash - and laughs in the face of his younger self, who is naturally quite confused.

    On second thought it doesn't seem all that interesting.
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  93. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    Now some Catholic will reply to you and the fun will begin (takes popcorn)
     
    Let's make those Catholics take qualifying IQ tests. It's the only way they can learn.

    All right, I’ll bite.

    Learn what? And how would having taken an IQ test help me to do so?

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    Private joke.
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  94. 5371 says:
    @Pat Casey
    The logic is very simple: you have to know the bad to appreciate the good; perfect knowledge of Hell imparts perfect appreciation for Heaven. Granted, it sort of sounds like St. Thomas is saying the saints will take delight in seeing the suffering of the damned, but that's because you're not following the argument.

    Now the Catholic Church has never claimed to understand eternal damnation except as eternal separation from God. Dante saw nine circles, and I tend to think that's the right idea, that hell has a hierarchy, (what doesn't have a hierarchy?) so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn't have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company. But heaven would still be infinitely better than the least bad rung of hell, and we can say just that because, as Derb will tell you, Cantor proved some infinities are bigger than others.

    What's God's excuse for being a hardass? I don't think that's the right word, but I don't think that what God is depends on God's whim. God said to Moses "I AM WHO I AM." I think that answers the deepest question Plato ever came up with, "Do the Gods love justice because it is good, Or is justice good because the Gods love it." To wit, I think God loves justice because it is good, and that he is who he is because he couldn't have loved anything else. What I'm saying is, I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God, and the ones who end up in Hell will somehow know to a certitude that is where they belong.

    Bertrand Russell said: “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.” I think God would say to him: "Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant's in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot."

    [God said to Moses “I AM WHO I AM.”]

    And that’s why we say to each other, “b urself.”

    [I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God]

    How can anything be prior to God?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God." "The word ... judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. "
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  95. @Anon
    Twitter Goes Full Soviet

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2fGGBShAog

    (from the video –) NEO-NAZI!!

    “use our first amendment rights to Speak out and not be scared!”

    Hang that swastika banner high and proud.
    Don’t be scared.

    If the swastika can be banned,
    And the Confederate flag can be banned,
    Then so can the Stars and Stripes.

    [MORE]

    First: “In history, you can’t really say something happened in 1933 because something was going to happen in 1945. You can only explain things that happened in 1933 by events up to and including 1933. It’s very tempting to apply later events . . . but we can only understand historical events in terms of the causes that bring them about.” -Yale Prof. Tim Snyder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcXMV-4HfXs

    Second: According to Breitman & Lichtman in FDR and the Jews,

    “Upon gaining power in 1933 . . . Some Nazi activists physically assaulted Jews in the early exuberant days of Hitler’s semi legal revolution. Once secure in their authority, Nazi officials curbed personal violence . . . against Jews. Only in late 1938 . . . For the first time, the Gestapo imprisoned tens of thousands of German Jews in concentration camps.”

    Third: Within weeks of Hitler’s appointment to chancellorship, Jewish War Veterans organized a massive march in New York City.

    In subsequent weeks, Jews organized anti-German rallies in Madison Square Garden — Rabbis donated funds to ensure all who wished to attend could do so.

    Rabbis spoke in their synagogues to organize anti-German protests and to promote the Jewish boycott of Germany.

    Jews held a Mock Trial of the German government and found it Guilty of ???

    Fourth: In 1933 James Waterman Wise, son of Rabbi Stephen Wise, published SWASTIKA: The Nazi Terror
    Wise’s opening paragraph:

    BY DECREE ISSUED IN BERLIN MARCH 12 1933 THE Nazi banner together with that of the Old Empire was proclaimed the flag of Germany. Upon it was in-
    scribed the Swastika-symbolizing hatred of the Jew- and in that sign the new German Government, with Hitler at its head, declared and is waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens.

    The NSDAP did not proclaim their flag to be a banner of hate, James Waterman Wise did.
    The National Socialist anthem proclaimed that the German flag stood for “hope . . .bread and freedom;” Waterman Wise wrote that the flag of the German people symbolized “hatred of Jews.”

    In fact, the Nazi banner looks a lot like the banner and symbol of Harvard sports teams, not at all implausible since Ernst Hanfstaengl, who used to lunch with Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt at Harvard, and who supported and financed Hitler’s publication of Mein Kampf, claimed that the “Heil Hitler” salute was based on a Harvard cheer ritual.

    What’s the point of this chronology?

    The shit that the financiers of an American color revolution are stirring up today sure as hell looks a lot like the shit that zionist Jews stirred up in New York and numerous other US and international cities as the NSDAP rose to power.
    As Breitman & Lichtman stated, the Third Reich proceeded non-violently, but with the intent to take legal measures to limit the influence Jews in Germany were exerting over German culture, politics and finance, just as many of us hope that Donald Trump will curtail the invidious influence of Israel firsters on US policy, politics, finance and culture.

    The paid protesters wave placards with bearing the swastika.

    Their crayoned cards should be trumped.

    Fly the Nazi banner, high and proud.

    The days of hope, bread and freedom are here!

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    The swastika first became famous with Heinrich Schliemann's reports on his excavations at Troy and Mycenae.
    , @Sam Shama
    [Hang that swastika banner high and proud.
    Don’t be scared.]

    Yes do that, won't you please? Find yourself in that lonely spot in the public square ready for swift discovery. It must be a Freudian urge. Deep also must be your craving to uncover where there are none save the obscure fringes, reasons to equate a Trump victory to that of a resurrection of Nazism.

    [Third Reich proceeded non-violently, but with the intent to take legal measures to limit the influence Jews in Germany were exerting over German culture, politics and finance, just as many of us hope that Donald Trump will curtail the invidious influence of Israel firsters on US policy, politics, finance and culture.]

    It must have been torture to limit yourself to the "Israel Firster" description when your normal "Jews" would've fitted the yearning with so much blissful generality, n'est pas?

    You'd outdo Obergruppenfuehrer Bernhard Rust, one time Gauleiter of Hanover, a close friend of Adolf since the early twenties, named Reichminister of Science and Education in 1930. He was as unstable of mind as he was a scold and a fanatic who reduced the previously resplendent German culture and science to standing joke amongst the intellectual classes in Europe. He instituted Mein Kampf as the "infallible pedagogical guiding star". LOL.

    Prior to 1933, German public schools had been under the jurisdiction of the local authorities and the universities under that of the individual states. Now all were brought under the iron rule of the Reich Minister of Education. There were twenty-five new courses in Rassenkunde – racial science – alone, and by the time he had really taken the university apart he had eighty-six courses connected with his own profession!

    Great teachers such as Einstein and Franck in physics, Haber, Willstaetter and Warburg in chemistry, were fired or retired. Those who remained, many of them, were bitten by the Nazi aberrations and attempted to apply them to pure science. They began to teach what they called German physics, German chemistry, German mathematics. Indeed, in 1937 there appeared a journal called Deutsche Mathematik, and its first editorial solemnly proclaimed that any idea that mathematics could be judged nonracially carried "within itself the germs of destruction of German science." Wilhelm Mueller, of the Technical College of Aachen, who in a book entitled Jewry and Science saw a worldwide Jewish plot to pollute science and thereby destroy civilisation. To him Einstein, with his theory of relativity, was the archvillain.

    And yet from 1905 to 1931 ten German Jews had been awarded Nobel Prizes for their contributions to science.

    You are proposing America follow the path so thoughtfully created by Rust and Hitler, the one which German posterity rejected unequivocally.
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  96. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @Anon
    All right, I'll bite.

    Learn what? And how would having taken an IQ test help me to do so?

    Private joke.

    Read More
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  97. 5371 says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    (from the video --) NEO-NAZI!!

    "use our first amendment rights to Speak out and not be scared!"


    Hang that swastika banner high and proud.
    Don't be scared.

    If the swastika can be banned,
    And the Confederate flag can be banned,
    Then so can the Stars and Stripes.

    ---

    First: "In history, you can't really say something happened in 1933 because something was going to happen in 1945. You can only explain things that happened in 1933 by events up to and including 1933. It’s very tempting to apply later events . . . but we can only understand historical events in terms of the causes that bring them about." -Yale Prof. Tim Snyder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcXMV-4HfXs

    Second: According to Breitman & Lichtman in FDR and the Jews,

    "Upon gaining power in 1933 . . . Some Nazi activists physically assaulted Jews in the early exuberant days of Hitler's semi legal revolution. Once secure in their authority, Nazi officials curbed personal violence . . . against Jews. Only in late 1938 . . . For the first time, the Gestapo imprisoned tens of thousands of German Jews in concentration camps."

     
    Third: Within weeks of Hitler's appointment to chancellorship, Jewish War Veterans organized a massive march in New York City.

    In subsequent weeks, Jews organized anti-German rallies in Madison Square Garden -- Rabbis donated funds to ensure all who wished to attend could do so.

    Rabbis spoke in their synagogues to organize anti-German protests and to promote the Jewish boycott of Germany.

    Jews held a Mock Trial of the German government and found it Guilty of ???

    Fourth: In 1933 James Waterman Wise, son of Rabbi Stephen Wise, published SWASTIKA: The Nazi Terror
    Wise's opening paragraph:

    BY DECREE ISSUED IN BERLIN MARCH 12 1933 THE Nazi banner together with that of the Old Empire was proclaimed the flag of Germany. Upon it was in-
    scribed the Swastika-symbolizing hatred of the Jew- and in that sign the new German Government, with Hitler at its head, declared and is waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens.
     
    The NSDAP did not proclaim their flag to be a banner of hate, James Waterman Wise did.
    The National Socialist anthem proclaimed that the German flag stood for "hope . . .bread and freedom;" Waterman Wise wrote that the flag of the German people symbolized "hatred of Jews."

    In fact, the Nazi banner looks a lot like the banner and symbol of Harvard sports teams, not at all implausible since Ernst Hanfstaengl, who used to lunch with Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt at Harvard, and who supported and financed Hitler's publication of Mein Kampf, claimed that the "Heil Hitler" salute was based on a Harvard cheer ritual.

    What's the point of this chronology?

    The shit that the financiers of an American color revolution are stirring up today sure as hell looks a lot like the shit that zionist Jews stirred up in New York and numerous other US and international cities as the NSDAP rose to power.
    As Breitman & Lichtman stated, the Third Reich proceeded non-violently, but with the intent to take legal measures to limit the influence Jews in Germany were exerting over German culture, politics and finance, just as many of us hope that Donald Trump will curtail the invidious influence of Israel firsters on US policy, politics, finance and culture.

    The paid protesters wave placards with bearing the swastika.

    Their crayoned cards should be trumped.

    Fly the Nazi banner, high and proud.

    The days of hope, bread and freedom are here!

    The swastika first became famous with Heinrich Schliemann’s reports on his excavations at Troy and Mycenae.

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  98. Sam Shama says:
    @SolontoCroesus
    (from the video --) NEO-NAZI!!

    "use our first amendment rights to Speak out and not be scared!"


    Hang that swastika banner high and proud.
    Don't be scared.

    If the swastika can be banned,
    And the Confederate flag can be banned,
    Then so can the Stars and Stripes.

    ---

    First: "In history, you can't really say something happened in 1933 because something was going to happen in 1945. You can only explain things that happened in 1933 by events up to and including 1933. It’s very tempting to apply later events . . . but we can only understand historical events in terms of the causes that bring them about." -Yale Prof. Tim Snyder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcXMV-4HfXs

    Second: According to Breitman & Lichtman in FDR and the Jews,

    "Upon gaining power in 1933 . . . Some Nazi activists physically assaulted Jews in the early exuberant days of Hitler's semi legal revolution. Once secure in their authority, Nazi officials curbed personal violence . . . against Jews. Only in late 1938 . . . For the first time, the Gestapo imprisoned tens of thousands of German Jews in concentration camps."

     
    Third: Within weeks of Hitler's appointment to chancellorship, Jewish War Veterans organized a massive march in New York City.

    In subsequent weeks, Jews organized anti-German rallies in Madison Square Garden -- Rabbis donated funds to ensure all who wished to attend could do so.

    Rabbis spoke in their synagogues to organize anti-German protests and to promote the Jewish boycott of Germany.

    Jews held a Mock Trial of the German government and found it Guilty of ???

    Fourth: In 1933 James Waterman Wise, son of Rabbi Stephen Wise, published SWASTIKA: The Nazi Terror
    Wise's opening paragraph:

    BY DECREE ISSUED IN BERLIN MARCH 12 1933 THE Nazi banner together with that of the Old Empire was proclaimed the flag of Germany. Upon it was in-
    scribed the Swastika-symbolizing hatred of the Jew- and in that sign the new German Government, with Hitler at its head, declared and is waging official and relentless war upon 600,000 of its own citizens.
     
    The NSDAP did not proclaim their flag to be a banner of hate, James Waterman Wise did.
    The National Socialist anthem proclaimed that the German flag stood for "hope . . .bread and freedom;" Waterman Wise wrote that the flag of the German people symbolized "hatred of Jews."

    In fact, the Nazi banner looks a lot like the banner and symbol of Harvard sports teams, not at all implausible since Ernst Hanfstaengl, who used to lunch with Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt at Harvard, and who supported and financed Hitler's publication of Mein Kampf, claimed that the "Heil Hitler" salute was based on a Harvard cheer ritual.

    What's the point of this chronology?

    The shit that the financiers of an American color revolution are stirring up today sure as hell looks a lot like the shit that zionist Jews stirred up in New York and numerous other US and international cities as the NSDAP rose to power.
    As Breitman & Lichtman stated, the Third Reich proceeded non-violently, but with the intent to take legal measures to limit the influence Jews in Germany were exerting over German culture, politics and finance, just as many of us hope that Donald Trump will curtail the invidious influence of Israel firsters on US policy, politics, finance and culture.

    The paid protesters wave placards with bearing the swastika.

    Their crayoned cards should be trumped.

    Fly the Nazi banner, high and proud.

    The days of hope, bread and freedom are here!

    [Hang that swastika banner high and proud.
    Don’t be scared.]

    Yes do that, won’t you please? Find yourself in that lonely spot in the public square ready for swift discovery. It must be a Freudian urge. Deep also must be your craving to uncover where there are none save the obscure fringes, reasons to equate a Trump victory to that of a resurrection of Nazism.

    [Third Reich proceeded non-violently, but with the intent to take legal measures to limit the influence Jews in Germany were exerting over German culture, politics and finance, just as many of us hope that Donald Trump will curtail the invidious influence of Israel firsters on US policy, politics, finance and culture.]

    It must have been torture to limit yourself to the “Israel Firster” description when your normal “Jews” would’ve fitted the yearning with so much blissful generality, n’est pas?

    You’d outdo Obergruppenfuehrer Bernhard Rust, one time Gauleiter of Hanover, a close friend of Adolf since the early twenties, named Reichminister of Science and Education in 1930. He was as unstable of mind as he was a scold and a fanatic who reduced the previously resplendent German culture and science to standing joke amongst the intellectual classes in Europe. He instituted Mein Kampf as the “infallible pedagogical guiding star”. LOL.

    Prior to 1933, German public schools had been under the jurisdiction of the local authorities and the universities under that of the individual states. Now all were brought under the iron rule of the Reich Minister of Education. There were twenty-five new courses in Rassenkunde – racial science – alone, and by the time he had really taken the university apart he had eighty-six courses connected with his own profession!

    Great teachers such as Einstein and Franck in physics, Haber, Willstaetter and Warburg in chemistry, were fired or retired. Those who remained, many of them, were bitten by the Nazi aberrations and attempted to apply them to pure science. They began to teach what they called German physics, German chemistry, German mathematics. Indeed, in 1937 there appeared a journal called Deutsche Mathematik, and its first editorial solemnly proclaimed that any idea that mathematics could be judged nonracially carried “within itself the germs of destruction of German science.” Wilhelm Mueller, of the Technical College of Aachen, who in a book entitled Jewry and Science saw a worldwide Jewish plot to pollute science and thereby destroy civilisation. To him Einstein, with his theory of relativity, was the archvillain.

    And yet from 1905 to 1931 ten German Jews had been awarded Nobel Prizes for their contributions to science.

    You are proposing America follow the path so thoughtfully created by Rust and Hitler, the one which German posterity rejected unequivocally.

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  99. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    I assume you know these things
     
    I sure do.

    However, Bertrand Russell had far too much taste to go around laughing in people’s faces.
     
    An unwarranted assumption.

    Might make a good premise for an SF story- Bertrand Russell travels back in time – maybe during plane crash – and laughs in the face of his younger self, who is naturally quite confused.

    On second thought it doesn’t seem all that interesting.

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  100. Pat Casey says:
    @5371
    [God said to Moses “I AM WHO I AM.”]

    And that's why we say to each other, "b urself."

    [I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God]

    How can anything be prior to God?

    “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.” “The word … judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. “

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  101. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Hell for them is heaven for us, heaven for us is hell for them.

    Shouldn’t these people just seek permanent separation from the rest of us?

    Talk about Paranoid Style of American Politics.

    And if these people care so much about People of Color, why support Bush, Obama, and Hillary whose foreign policies have destroyed non-white nations, especially in the Middle East?
    And if they really care about foreign cultures, why allow immigration and erasure of their identities by assimilation? Why turn people around the world into McCitizens of the soulless US?

    It is especially rich when Zionists who’ve done so much to destroy the Muslim World bitch about Donald Trump is so hateful toward Muslims. Imagine Nazi Germans attacking Americans for ‘antisemitism’ for not taking in Jewish immigrants and refugees. Never mind it was Nazi Wars that led to the Jewish migration crisis. Today, a lot of Muslims and/or Arabs are on the move because of Jewish-controlled wars(thus making Jewish globalists responsible for the destruction of millions of lives), but these people attack and demean white Americans and Europeans as ‘hateful’ for not offering even more safe haven for these ‘refugees’. Jewish globalists, who’ve done the MOST to destroy and kill Muslims and Arabs, are posing as their defenders and saviors. Talk about chutzpah. What utter foulness.

    Trump’s immigration proposal regarding Muslims goes too far, but at least he wants to reverse the neo-imperialist drift of US politics in the Middle East. At least he condemned US actions in Iraq, Libya, and Syria that led to so much horror.

    But then, one area in which Trump doesn’t care about Arabs/Muslims at all is on the issue of Israel, a nation he supports 100% regardless of its brutality against Palestinians. And he is really shabby on the issue of Iran… though maybe he’s just playing contrarian on whatever Obama/Hillary did.

    Still, he showed guts in denouncing the failure in the Middle East as not just Obama/Hillary’s failure but that of the GOP as well.

    It’s time for a new chapter in US foreign policy. Invite/Invade must go.
    Jewish globalists must stop using US military to destroy Arab/Muslim lands and then posing as defenders & saviors of Muslims fleeing to the West.

    If I burn down Jane’s house and then play Jane’s defender by demanding that Bob offer her refuge in his home(while denying her entry into mine), that would be so lowdown.
    But that is exactly what Zionist Globalists do in the Middle East and the West via the Invade/Invite Strategy.

    Time to say goodbye to all this crazy crisis.

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  102. @John Jeremiah Smith

    I think God would say to him: “Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant’s in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot.”
     
    You guys are peculiarly all the same. All of you are fanatically convinced that your particular variation on "God", what "God" wants, what "God" thinks, what "God" is going to do, etc., is the absolute sine qua non of all interpretations of "God".

    Russell would laugh in your face. You're a charlatan.

    The late, great Bill Hicks referred to people who liked to interpret scripture as saying, “What God mean’t to say…”

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  103. Anonym says:
    @Patrick in SC
    The film version of Sorkin's best known play, A Few Good Men, is beloved by people of all political stripes. It's best known scene, of course, is the climactic courtroom confrontation between the Tom Cruise character, Lt. Caffey, and Jack Nicholson's evil Col. Jessup: "You can't handle the truth!"

    Thing is, if you look a little closer, the film is anti-Gentile propaganda from Sorkin's slightly paranoid perspective.

    The good guys? An obviously Jewish lawyer named "Weintraub" and a strong female character played by Demi Moore. Cruise plays a Gentile, but he is cleansed by virtue of the fact that he went to Harvard and is the son of a civil rights crusading attorney who fought segregation back in the 50s and 60s.

    The baddies? A bible quoting psychotic played by Keifer Sutherland and of course, Col. Jessup (Jesus?) played by Nicholson.

    The soldiers on trial are a dimwitted, diminutive white redneck who relies on his tall, mixed-race co-defendant to do all of his thinking for him.

    The Judge is black, of course.

    The baddies? A bible quoting psychotic played by Keifer Sutherland and of course, Col. Jessup (Jesus?) played by Nicholson.

    The hero in that movie is Nicholson. Just like everyone on the US side in Sicario bar Blunt and her partner were the good guys.

    But yes, that movie was written as something of a PC parable. Everyone – blacks, women, Jews holding down the white man like Gulliver being strapped down by Lilliputians. Now those bonds are being broken.

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  104. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    LOL

    Dylann Roof and Brimelow in the same boat.

    http://alternative-right.blogspot.com/2016/11/faces-of-alt-right.html

    It’s so unfair when I’m the only true race-ist and fascist.

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  105. Pat Casey says:
    @E. A. Costa
    You are the idiot, mon ami. Aquinas' is a theological analysis of a situation and problem first broached by Tertullian and which Aquinas could never have been led to on his own.

    Very little about heaven and hell, for example, in Aristotle, jeje.

    At any rate, mon ami, you illustrate perfectly the Roman Catholic ideologues' willies over anything that has its origins in Tertullian. Which by the way also includes his first use of the word Trinitas.

    Pardon the interruption to your doctrinal slumbers, mon ami. Sleep tight.

    Look I can remember reading all about Tertullian fourteen years ago out of a two volume history of christianity given to me by a Priest. What abideth in memory? He was early and controversial. (Tertullian sounds like a villain’s name to me.) Now I’ve read his wikipedia page and the Montanism wikipedia page and a couple of blog posts. The Montanist wikipedia page says he was not a Montanist, as you claim, that is the common misconception of what his positive judgement of them meant, but perhaps you know that’s the cod. I want to know why he decided in 207 that their prophecies were true. But so anyways, the Roman Catholic “ideologues” who get the “willies,” are they the ones who keep it “hush hush” that Tertullian has been called what wikipedia includes in the first paragraph, “the father of latin christianity”?

    Obviously this a hobby horse of yours and I guess you think it’s indicative of how Roman Catholics are unreliable about the history of the early church and this proves all the sects and heresies that disappeared were the true Christians or something, but well, me personally, I think that History is a branch and maybe a minor-branch of fiction and that any version of any history is more or less a story and more or less literary and as I said it should aspire to fiction. I would like to know why I should care that Tertullian is passed over by Roman Catholics. What do you think that proves or suggests?

    Finally, I did want to dig my heals in on this deeply, but I think we have to say, in the fullest sense of what St. Thomas said, the damned suffer more by the fact of those in heaven watching them, that’s what makes it more “conspicuous.” That troubles me, profoundly, and I have to confess it to untrouble myself. The point sounds like St. Augustine and I had thought St. Thomas was over that. I won’t say I’m a bigger idiot than you though, I think my idea is more true than St. Thomas knew, and basically a pretty brilliant misreading. Alas, nothing is more numbing than thinking how long eternity lasts.

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  106. @Pat Casey
    The logic is very simple: you have to know the bad to appreciate the good; perfect knowledge of Hell imparts perfect appreciation for Heaven. Granted, it sort of sounds like St. Thomas is saying the saints will take delight in seeing the suffering of the damned, but that's because you're not following the argument.

    Now the Catholic Church has never claimed to understand eternal damnation except as eternal separation from God. Dante saw nine circles, and I tend to think that's the right idea, that hell has a hierarchy, (what doesn't have a hierarchy?) so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn't have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company. But heaven would still be infinitely better than the least bad rung of hell, and we can say just that because, as Derb will tell you, Cantor proved some infinities are bigger than others.

    What's God's excuse for being a hardass? I don't think that's the right word, but I don't think that what God is depends on God's whim. God said to Moses "I AM WHO I AM." I think that answers the deepest question Plato ever came up with, "Do the Gods love justice because it is good, Or is justice good because the Gods love it." To wit, I think God loves justice because it is good, and that he is who he is because he couldn't have loved anything else. What I'm saying is, I think what governs the fate of the human soul is prior to God, and the ones who end up in Hell will somehow know to a certitude that is where they belong.

    Bertrand Russell said: “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.” I think God would say to him: "Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant's in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot."

    so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn’t have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company.

    The Bible says:

    “Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it; from His presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life.

    And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:11-15).

    The idea that anybody is going to either be having a good time in hell or that it won’t be so bad is not supported by the numerous Bible verses regarding hell. In fact, Jesus talked more about hell than heaven.

    Jesus also willingly died on a cross and shed His blood because “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16). Why would He have done this if hell wasn’t real and a place of torment?

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    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    The Bible says nothing. The authors, approximately forty or so, of various books wrote what they thought would suit their respective agendas, be it religious, ideological, political or whatever motivated them to write. Some were possibly inspired or well intended, others not so much and quite a bit was plagiarised from other older sources. None of it is written by The Creator, Jesus or anyone with a direct link to either of them. The word itself means a collection of books, nothing more and the collection itself was assembled and then modified by quite a variety of scoundrels.

    Let's assume we have four Beatles fans, each has a different favourite Beatle and each assembles a collection of greatest hits. The John fancier would come up with a list of political songs, the Paul preferrer love songs. Georges fan's album would be the most spiritual and Ringo's list would not be nearly as good. Same with your biblios.

    Kindly pray for me.
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  107. Pat Casey says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith

    I think God would say to him: “Oh Bertrand, you of all people, who disproved the cogito, and said the absence of the pink elephant’s in the room could not be proved, why did it never occur to you, that the necessity of faith, is what logic eventually finds? Bertrand you would have refused to believe in me if I had showered you in mystical revelation, because you were an idiot.”
     
    You guys are peculiarly all the same. All of you are fanatically convinced that your particular variation on "God", what "God" wants, what "God" thinks, what "God" is going to do, etc., is the absolute sine qua non of all interpretations of "God".

    Russell would laugh in your face. You're a charlatan.

    Fanatically convinced? Please note the number of times you read “I think.” I understand that speculating about God can seem presumptuous and self-revealing. But I wasn’t explaining the infinite greatness of God, and the obvious question is, how do you know so much better? Well of course the truth is you don’t know better. And actually I do know that I’m better at speculating about God than you are, for at least two big reasons. One because when I was in college I came up with an entirely original theodicy, hard to say how long it’s been since that happened, and it was even the most elegant one yet, and did not depend on any assumption of any school of theology. I would go ahead and share that with you if you asked me nicely, but one thing we believe is that God likes us to store our treasures up in Heaven, so I’m content to say that you should probably worry about the possibility that God is not interested in you, because your brand of wickedness is certainly not aesthetic. Second of all, I recently read that I’m not the only one around here who has known a miracle, but its kind of a point of pride for me that mine was as cool as they get. And that’s the thing, that’s exactly the thing, because when it stopped being just so much awe, and I finally remembered a detail about right before it happened, that’s when the mystery of the miracle was revealed, why it happened and what it meant was suddenly with me when I received the grace of understanding, and then I could imagine more than awe: God is most of all just really really totally COOL.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    Patrick, you are batshit bonkers.
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  108. @Svigor

    It’s simple logic. Anything less would imply imperfection in divine justice.
     
    I guess I'm not smart enough to follow the simple logic. Care to unpack?

    Personally, I'd prefer a God whose mercy and compassion were greater than your typical commie apparatchik, not less.

    In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned.
     
    Great so God destroys the souls of the "saved" as they "ascend" into Heaven.

    I may be wrong, but I think that the root of the problem is the frustration of spending centuries as a disrespected lower status minority in Europe and the Middle East (particularly Europe), although they did live-apart through their own choice.
     
    Jews were usually honored by monarchs and noble classes. Given authority over the peasants (so as to exploit them). Etc. Life as a Jew was better than life as a peasant. It was often better than life as a noble.

    No Christian takes in any pleasure in the damnation of anyone. God himself said that he takes no pleasure in the death of the sinner.
     
    Well, that's big of him. He just condemns them to eternal torment, he doesn't enjoy it. Consider me skeptical about that.

    We’re in a post-WII, post-60s era, where its assumed that the natural way to behave is to smother others with kindness, unless they’re a deplorable.
     
    No need to lay it at the left's door. Catholic (etc.) God fails even "live and let live" levels of compassion. We down here on Earth live within constraints, under pressure, competition, etc. Some people would as soon cut your throat as look at you. And even we're generally much more moral than this supposed God. And we have plenty of excuses for being hardasses. What's His?

    Instead, you will face God’s righteous and holy wrath for your sins and spend eternity in hell.

    However, the good news is that you can know that you will go to heaven when you die through the repentance of sins and faith in Jesus Christ, who died on a cross to save you from your sins.
     
    I can't worship a God that's less moral than most of the people around me. This God has no sense of proportion; (eternity of suffering for (fill in anything you like here, doesn't matter) done in a mortal life is not moral. In fact, He strikes me as evil. I wouldn't want to be in Heaven with him.

    I can’t worship a God that’s less moral than most of the people around me. This God has no sense of proportion; (eternity of suffering for (fill in anything you like here, doesn’t matter) done in a mortal life is not moral. In fact, He strikes me as evil. I wouldn’t want to be in Heaven with him.

    I’m sorry to hear that. I hope you change your mind before you die. Also, may I say that it is hubris for a human being to try to sit in judgment on God. God sits in judgment on us, we don’t sit in judgment on Him. He is the Creator, we are the created ones.

    I know the idea of hell is upsetting. It bothers me also even though I believe what the Bible says about it. However, we as human beings tend not to take sin seriously or understand how bad it is. But God is holy and He is 100% holy, not 50% holy or 97.5% holy but 100% holy. In fact, God’s holiness can be said to be His main characteristic. Isaiah 6:1-3 says the following:

    “In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the temple. Above Him stood the seraphim; each had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said:

    “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory.”

    And there is a similar scene in Revelation 4:8 where the four living creatures around the throne sing “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

    They don’t say “Loving, loving, loving” or “Merciful, merciful, merciful” or “Forgiving, forgiving, forgiving” although God is all those things. Instead, they say “Holy, holy, holy” and because God is holy, He does hate sin and will judge it.

    However, as God is also incredibly loving, He provided a way for His holy wrath against sin to be satisfied and that way was to send His Son Jesus to die on a cross and pay for the sins of the world so that whoever believes in Him will have their sins forgiven. If, however, a person rejects the salvation offered through the death of Jesus Christ then that person’s sins aren’t forgiven and the person has to pay for his sins himself.

    And so both the wrath of God and the love of God can be seen at the cross.

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    • Replies: @Authenticjazzman
    " God sits in judgement of us"

    However the flaw in this logic, in this concept, is that according to you God believers , he, God, knows the future, meaning he ALREADY knew who was going to fail, and be judged before he created them, so what was the point in creating them in the first place, if he already knew that he was going to condemn them to hell before they took their first breath on earth.

    Sort of like the Hitler conumdrum : If God knows the future, and he already knew what Hitler was going to do before he, Hitler, set foot on earth, God could have prevented all of Hitler's pandemonia and murder, by simply not creating him to start with.

    And of course the God believers then claim that Hitler's "Free will" was responsible for the mayhem, meaning that God allowing Hitler to exist for the purpose of exercising his, Hitler's, "free will" was more important to God than the lives of his sixty million victims.

    All God had to do was to say : Nope Hitler you are not ging to be born at this point in time, and then the lives of his millions of victims would have spared, and Hitler would have been denied the expression of his "Free will", allowing sixty million innocents to retain their lives.

    Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" society member of forty-plus years and pro jazz artist.
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  109. @John Jeremiah Smith
    Gadzookerino, what pathetically wacky religiosity. So sick, so laughable, so sad. Ick. Grow a brain, man

    Gadzookerino, what pathetically wacky religiosity. So sick, so laughable, so sad. Ick. Grow a brain, man

    “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:18).

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  110. @ConcernedAmerican

    I can’t worship a God that’s less moral than most of the people around me. This God has no sense of proportion; (eternity of suffering for (fill in anything you like here, doesn’t matter) done in a mortal life is not moral. In fact, He strikes me as evil. I wouldn’t want to be in Heaven with him.
     
    I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you change your mind before you die. Also, may I say that it is hubris for a human being to try to sit in judgment on God. God sits in judgment on us, we don't sit in judgment on Him. He is the Creator, we are the created ones.

    I know the idea of hell is upsetting. It bothers me also even though I believe what the Bible says about it. However, we as human beings tend not to take sin seriously or understand how bad it is. But God is holy and He is 100% holy, not 50% holy or 97.5% holy but 100% holy. In fact, God's holiness can be said to be His main characteristic. Isaiah 6:1-3 says the following:

    "In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the temple. Above Him stood the seraphim; each had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said:

    "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory."

    And there is a similar scene in Revelation 4:8 where the four living creatures around the throne sing "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"

    They don't say "Loving, loving, loving" or "Merciful, merciful, merciful" or "Forgiving, forgiving, forgiving" although God is all those things. Instead, they say "Holy, holy, holy" and because God is holy, He does hate sin and will judge it.

    However, as God is also incredibly loving, He provided a way for His holy wrath against sin to be satisfied and that way was to send His Son Jesus to die on a cross and pay for the sins of the world so that whoever believes in Him will have their sins forgiven. If, however, a person rejects the salvation offered through the death of Jesus Christ then that person's sins aren't forgiven and the person has to pay for his sins himself.

    And so both the wrath of God and the love of God can be seen at the cross.

    ” God sits in judgement of us”

    However the flaw in this logic, in this concept, is that according to you God believers , he, God, knows the future, meaning he ALREADY knew who was going to fail, and be judged before he created them, so what was the point in creating them in the first place, if he already knew that he was going to condemn them to hell before they took their first breath on earth.

    Sort of like the Hitler conumdrum : If God knows the future, and he already knew what Hitler was going to do before he, Hitler, set foot on earth, God could have prevented all of Hitler’s pandemonia and murder, by simply not creating him to start with.

    And of course the God believers then claim that Hitler’s “Free will” was responsible for the mayhem, meaning that God allowing Hitler to exist for the purpose of exercising his, Hitler’s, “free will” was more important to God than the lives of his sixty million victims.

    All God had to do was to say : Nope Hitler you are not ging to be born at this point in time, and then the lives of his millions of victims would have spared, and Hitler would have been denied the expression of his “Free will”, allowing sixty million innocents to retain their lives.

    Authenticjazzman, “Mensa” society member of forty-plus years and pro jazz artist.

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    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    Ajazz, the sensible Mensan does not argue with religious fanatics. They're crazy; you know that.
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  111. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @Pat Casey
    Fanatically convinced? Please note the number of times you read "I think." I understand that speculating about God can seem presumptuous and self-revealing. But I wasn't explaining the infinite greatness of God, and the obvious question is, how do you know so much better? Well of course the truth is you don't know better. And actually I do know that I'm better at speculating about God than you are, for at least two big reasons. One because when I was in college I came up with an entirely original theodicy, hard to say how long it's been since that happened, and it was even the most elegant one yet, and did not depend on any assumption of any school of theology. I would go ahead and share that with you if you asked me nicely, but one thing we believe is that God likes us to store our treasures up in Heaven, so I'm content to say that you should probably worry about the possibility that God is not interested in you, because your brand of wickedness is certainly not aesthetic. Second of all, I recently read that I'm not the only one around here who has known a miracle, but its kind of a point of pride for me that mine was as cool as they get. And that's the thing, that's exactly the thing, because when it stopped being just so much awe, and I finally remembered a detail about right before it happened, that's when the mystery of the miracle was revealed, why it happened and what it meant was suddenly with me when I received the grace of understanding, and then I could imagine more than awe: God is most of all just really really totally COOL.

    Patrick, you are batshit bonkers.

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    • Replies: @Pat Casey
    Gosh I really appreciate your concern, that's very noble of you, but that's actually another point of pride, that I'm not like you. I see below you spoke of "the sensible Mensan"? Do you think you're in Mensa? I think that's adorable, you guys are all peculiarly the same. Hey I hope this is what you meant before when you said "you guys":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ffXnJQ0xE
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  112. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @Authenticjazzman
    " God sits in judgement of us"

    However the flaw in this logic, in this concept, is that according to you God believers , he, God, knows the future, meaning he ALREADY knew who was going to fail, and be judged before he created them, so what was the point in creating them in the first place, if he already knew that he was going to condemn them to hell before they took their first breath on earth.

    Sort of like the Hitler conumdrum : If God knows the future, and he already knew what Hitler was going to do before he, Hitler, set foot on earth, God could have prevented all of Hitler's pandemonia and murder, by simply not creating him to start with.

    And of course the God believers then claim that Hitler's "Free will" was responsible for the mayhem, meaning that God allowing Hitler to exist for the purpose of exercising his, Hitler's, "free will" was more important to God than the lives of his sixty million victims.

    All God had to do was to say : Nope Hitler you are not ging to be born at this point in time, and then the lives of his millions of victims would have spared, and Hitler would have been denied the expression of his "Free will", allowing sixty million innocents to retain their lives.

    Authenticjazzman, "Mensa" society member of forty-plus years and pro jazz artist.

    Ajazz, the sensible Mensan does not argue with religious fanatics. They’re crazy; you know that.

    Read More
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  113. Pat Casey says:
    @John Jeremiah Smith
    Patrick, you are batshit bonkers.

    Gosh I really appreciate your concern, that’s very noble of you, but that’s actually another point of pride, that I’m not like you. I see below you spoke of “the sensible Mensan”? Do you think you’re in Mensa? I think that’s adorable, you guys are all peculiarly the same. Hey I hope this is what you meant before when you said “you guys”:

    Read More
    • Replies: @John Jeremiah Smith
    Bonkers, Paddy, bonkers. Batshit crazy.
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  114. Eagle Eye says:
    @Ben Frank
    America is under siege. We just won a 4-year respite, during which we can repair damage and prepare for the next major assaults.

    Precisely – the 4-year respite will run out much sooner than one thinks. Machiavelli recommended that a new ruler take all the brutal steps needed at the beginning of his reign because after that he will want and need to play the nice guy.

    Realistically, Trump has only 100 days to get things started. Any initiative that is not solidly underway on day 101 will never really happen.

    The most important priorities for the survival of the Republic are:

    ONE: clean up the entire voting system with voter ID, with clean voter rolls (no illegals, felons, zombies), solid paper ballots, see-through ballot boxes (literal “transparency”), counting at ballot stations, not in some SEIU staffed office, chain of custody, a leavening of secretly trackable ballots for control, etc.

    TWO: Clean up the communist indoctrination machine in the media and education machine.

    THREE: Bring back fact-based rather than feeling-based civics education. Every American needs to have read the Bill of Rights and understand what it means. When is civil disobedience a DUTY? How does one identify political charlatans and rented “harlatans”?

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  115. Ace says:
    @Anonymous

    St Thomas Aquinas told us that one of the pleasures enjoyed by the blessed in Heaven was to contemplate the sufferings of the damned in Hell.
     
    Thanks. I didn't know Aquinas was such first-class meanie.
    Christianity's weakness and its subjection to nasty attacks from all sides make it easy to get unaware of its historical baseness.

    What is it with people like you? The Chinese nailed your type long ago. They thought it was an intellectual defect to look at the sky like a frog at the bottom of a well.

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  116. Ace says:
    @Dissident
    What you have described is, sadly, undoubtedly true for many Jews. But not all of us. Please remember that.

    Dissident, where can the voices of Jews such as yourself be heard? The non-Jewish Prof. MacDonald takes all kinds of heat for what he says but I am unaware of all but a few Jewish voices that oppose what appears to be the organized Jewish majority. If any non-Jew criticizes Jewish political behavior it’s wall-to-wall ADL and SPLC hysteria. Which Jews oppose that?

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  117. @ConcernedAmerican

    so that the pagan who leads a basically good life doesn’t have it so bad, and gets to enjoy some pretty good company.
     
    The Bible says:

    "Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it; from His presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life.

    And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15).

    The idea that anybody is going to either be having a good time in hell or that it won't be so bad is not supported by the numerous Bible verses regarding hell. In fact, Jesus talked more about hell than heaven.

    Jesus also willingly died on a cross and shed His blood because "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16). Why would He have done this if hell wasn't real and a place of torment?

    The Bible says nothing. The authors, approximately forty or so, of various books wrote what they thought would suit their respective agendas, be it religious, ideological, political or whatever motivated them to write. Some were possibly inspired or well intended, others not so much and quite a bit was plagiarised from other older sources. None of it is written by The Creator, Jesus or anyone with a direct link to either of them. The word itself means a collection of books, nothing more and the collection itself was assembled and then modified by quite a variety of scoundrels.

    Let’s assume we have four Beatles fans, each has a different favourite Beatle and each assembles a collection of greatest hits. The John fancier would come up with a list of political songs, the Paul preferrer love songs. Georges fan’s album would be the most spiritual and Ringo’s list would not be nearly as good. Same with your biblios.

    Kindly pray for me.

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  118. John Jeremiah Smith [AKA "Kip Russell"] says:
    @Pat Casey
    Gosh I really appreciate your concern, that's very noble of you, but that's actually another point of pride, that I'm not like you. I see below you spoke of "the sensible Mensan"? Do you think you're in Mensa? I think that's adorable, you guys are all peculiarly the same. Hey I hope this is what you meant before when you said "you guys":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ffXnJQ0xE

    Bonkers, Paddy, bonkers. Batshit crazy.

    Read More
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Limbaugh and company certainly entertain. But a steady diet of ideological comfort food is no substitute for hearty intellectual fare.
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