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Adapted from the latest Radio Derb, available exclusively on VDARE.com

Sub-Saharan Africans, and their descendants in the New World, are a local variety of our species homo sapiens. That they present their own particular statistical profile on heritable characteristics—which includes traits of behavior, intelligence, and personality—is deeply unsurprising. So do dog breeds; and what artificial selection in dogs has generated over a few hundred years, natural selection among humans could certainly accomplish in several hundred thousand years.

That’s all familiar stuff to VDARE.com readers. Is there any chance of race realism taking hold in society at large?

Not if the New York Times has anything to say about it.

Currently defending the citadel of race denialism at the Times is one Amy Harmon [Tweet her] bylined as “a national correspondent … covering the intersection of science and society.”

Ms. Harmon recently contributed two pieces for the Times on the shortage of black mathematicians.

ORDER IT NOW

I can speak with some modest authority to this. Touring around colleges to promote one of my math books (Prime Obsession: Bernhard Riemann and the Greatest Unsolved Problem in Mathematics) fifteen years ago I could generally find, at any given college, one member of the math faculty who was a kindred spirit and would speak honestly to me.

I should explain, on the slight chance that there are VDARE.com readers who don’t know it, that American college faculties lean far, far Left.

I was working for National Review at the time and was introduced in colleges as a National Review contributor.

That was too much for some of the faculty. They thought it outrageous that their campus should be blighted by the presence of someone from a bigoted, fascistic, hate-filled, neo-Nazi outlet like National Review.

No, stop laughing; I am not making this up.

As I said, though, there was generally at least one closet conservative in the math department. At the first opportunity, he would invite me into his office, carefully close the door, pour me a drink, and unload on the particular variety of far-Left campus craziness prevailing at his institution.

To be fair to these poor beleaguered souls, their strongest frustrations were directed not at their colleagues, but at the college administration. As far Left as faculty generally are, college administrators are way farther. I heard some grisly stories.

I recall one of these guys—and yes, they were all guys, of course—telling me about his experiences on the hiring committee of the math faculty. The committee was under terrific pressure to hire a black lecturer. But it wasn’t easy to find one because of the very tiny numbers of math Ph.D.s.

He said—and I still remember the precise simile he used—he said the colleges “fight like cats” among themselves to get one of those precious blacks.

In her February 20th article, Ms. Harmon gives the number of black research mathematicians as thirteen—nationwide—out of a total of eighteen hundred i.e. 0.7 percent.

With blacks at thirteen percent of the population, that is indeed a striking under-representation.

This bigoted racist bias is not just American, it seems. It’s world-wide. The math equivalent of a Nobel Prize is the Fields Medal, awarded to just sixty people since it started up in 1936. Not one of those people was black.

Ms. Harmon is scientifically illiterate about the causal factors here. She notes for example that there are people—bad people! horrid people!—who posit biological reasons for the disparity. But!!!—

They lack any genetic evidence to explain the gap in average I.Q. scores between white and black Americans that they cite as the basis of their belief.

The answer to that is the one that human-sciences blogger JayMan gives: “You don’t need to know the name of every worker in the factory to know it produces widgets.”

Here’s another piece of scientific dumbness from Ms. Harmon:

Having a parent with a Ph.D. is helpful to getting one in math, while black children are less than half as likely as white children to live with such a parent.

Of course, science has no clue—not the faintest hint of a clue! no clue at all!—as to what, exactly, it is that parents pass on to their children.

Most likely it’s nothing at all. Those zygotes emerge from conception as perfect little blank slates, right? Only Nazis think otherwise.

Before leaving this topic, let me record my last encounter with a black mathematician.

This was also while I was working at National Review. In the run-up to the 2012 campaign, when my coeval Herman Cain was in the GOP field, he dropped by to give us some face time, as GOP candidates all did.

As well as having been born the same year as me, Cain has, like me, a Bachelor’s degree in math. He’s smarter than me, though, and went on to get a master’s in Computer Science. Somewhere along there he worked on math problems for the U.S. Navy.

I knew about this when I met him, so we had some math chat.

What kind of problems had he worked on? I asked him. “Ballistics,” he said; “Missile trajectories and such.”

Me: “Lotta differential equations?”

He: “Oh, yeah.”

Me, a bit sneakily: “ODEs or PDEs?”

He: “Mostly Os.”

If you don’t understand that exchange, just take it from me: for ballistics, Cain’s answer was the right one.

I came away impressed with the guy.

As impressive as that achievement is in a politician, however, differential equations are mathematical grunt work. To be on the math faculty of a good college, you need to be a couple of levels above that.

By a well-known property of the tails of distributions, which statisticians keep trying to explain, the proportional differences get bigger really fast out there at the extremes.

ORDER IT NOW

Plus being a math professor doesn’t pay that well. If you’re a black person with a math Ph.D., there are firms on Wall Street that will fight like cats over you too, offering way more money than the academy.

Amy Harmon doesn’t know any of this.

She doesn’t know any of anything much.

Can someone please put the New York Times out of its misery? It used to be a very good newspaper. I remember my first encounters with it, when I arrived on these shores back in 1973. I was impressed. You could spend all day with the Sunday edition, much to your advantage in improvement of your knowledge and understanding.

Now the NYT is far gone in decay. Now it is just the propaganda organ of a shallow and false ideology.

Come on, shut the wretched thing down. They shoot horses, don’t they?

2010-12-24dl[1]John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjectsfor all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him.) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT(also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Gringo says:

    It’s all here, in the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education. See Steve’s blog. Blacks comprised 0.7% of those scoring 750 or above on the Math SAT. It is a safe assumption that most math Ph.Ds. scored 750 or above on the Math SAT.

    http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Jett Rucker
  2. I think Derbyshire et al miss the key point about the output of people like Harmon.

    It isn’t intended to be read critically; nor is it likely to stand up to such criticism.

    Rather, it is produced to confirm preferences, to allow people to continue to believe that their wishful thinking has a rational foundation. All parents are wise and loving, our politicians are selflessly working for the common good, and if there aren’t many black mathematicians, it’s because somehow they’re not being given a fair shake. No need for any unpleasant suspicions or unsettling doubts. Mommy loves you.

    • Agree: Hail
  3. Truth says:

    You and Steve’s writing style is sometimes so hard to tell apart.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  4. Having a parent with a Ph.D. is helpful to getting one in math, while black children are less than half as likely as white children to live with such a parent.

    “Less than half.” Interesting ‘figure’ there. Are we to believe it’s, say, 40 or 45%?

    And what, by chance, is the mechanism here? How does it work?

    Actually, fewer than half as many black children live with both parents, or know who their fathers are, but why pick nits? The actual cause is FDR’s redlining.

    • LOL: DFH, Mr. XYZ, Jett Rucker
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @IQ
  5. llloyd says: • Website

    Just for a tease. Maybe couped up for hours on end, even maybe days on end on solving mathematical problems just doesn’t or rarely appeals to a coloured person. That would make a grumpy, misanthropic, dry fellow like well John Derbyshire. Herman Cain also had time for a political career. Grumpy misanthropic dry blacks are difficult to find.

  6. dearieme says:

    “New York Times … used to be a very good newspaper. I remember my first encounters with it …”

    And I mine: I was a university fresher at the time. “Duller than Le Monde” was my verdict.

    • Replies: @Prester John
  7. It used to be a very good newspaper.

    Nope.

    You used to have lower standards, is all.

    • Agree: Buck Ransom
    • Replies: @Realist
  8. Realist says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Correct. The NYT has always been a shit rag.

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  9. @Realist

    No, it really was better. Left-liberal, annoying, but spelling errors and outright bias in reporting was not tolerated, or at least blatant. Now the number of grammatical errors simply astounds.

    I’m limited to reading 5 stories a month without paying. I rarely exceed that number.

  10. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Truth

    Hmm. I would say maybe 50% in substance, but only about 5% in style.

    Sailer / Derbyshire
    concise / verbose
    detached / self-referential
    wry / leaden

    Both enjoy dispelling myths. But Mr. Sailer seems genuinely curious about matters beyond race, while Mr. Derbyshire strives to come up with something that will satisfy those who can’t hear often enough that they’re better than blacks.

    • Agree: llloyd
    • LOL: Truth
    • Troll: MBlanc46
  11. @Mr McKenna

    The actual cause is FDR’s redlining.

    Hey, getting more people to hate FDR – that can’t be a bad thing. (Whether he had squat-all to do with making bank loans is quite another story….)

  12. @anonymous

    IMO, as far as style, Steve Sailer can be more snarkily LOL-sarcastic than John Derbyshire. However, Mr. Derbyshire’s writing all flows together and is just more well thought-out and organized. Steve Sailer writes great medium-length articles in Takimag, but, for whatever reason (word limit?) he doesn’t usually have a good conclusion paragraph or two. His articles often end abruptly.

    • Replies: @Hail
  13. Regarding the post here itself:

    Amy Harmon purports to be the NY Times writer that covers the “intersection of science and society. She’s not a scientist and she doesn’t live in society (most of us don’t count NY City as part of decent society). Therefore, she knows not of what she writes.

    I well remember, with a few friends that switched from engineering/science to the major as exceptions, that Journalism majors were not the brightest people in college. That school was just above the bottom, “General Studies” (for the football players), in difficulty of the fields of study. I think journalism was a more honest field when it was practiced by people called “reporters”.

    I don’t have any memory of EVER taking the NY Times seriously, but I didn’t feel the need to buy a 2″ stack of paper on Sunday mornings to waste the whole day, when there were certainly better things to do… like, say, now here on the internet! (OK, I’m headed outside to get work done, as soon as I write a Peak Stupidity post and it gets a little warmer.)

  14. “In her February 20th article, Ms. Harmon gives the number of black research mathematicians as thirteen—nationwide—out of a total of eighteen hundred i.e. 0.7 percent. With blacks at thirteen percent of the population, that is indeed a striking under-representation.”

    Commenter utu (on a Sailer thread) gave the following numbers:

    Purdue Math Dept. Faculty Count

    33 China
    27 American (White)
    6 Germany
    3 American (Jewish)
    3 South Asia
    3 Romania
    3 S. America/Spain
    2 American (Black)
    2 Hungary
    2 Italy
    1 France
    1 Poland
    1 Bulgaria
    1 Armenia
    1 Iran
    1 Korea
    1 Japan

    Assuming those numbers are roughly correct, only about a third (31 out of 91) of Purdue math profs are white or black Americans. Probably the the situation is not so different at other research universities. So, the black percentage among these research mathematicians shouldn’t be compared to the black percentage of the population to assess black under-representation. White Americans are also under-represented among these research mathematicians relative to their percentage of the American population.

    Also, Camilla Benbow has gotten data on what happens with kids who test at the 1-in-10,000 level of smart, versus kids at the 1-in-100 level of smart. The super-smart kids have much higher rates of getting STEM Ph.D.s and becoming successful researchers. The black percentage among the super-smart kids is almost certainly much lower than the black percentage among the pretty smart kids.

    • Replies: @Miro23
  15. I’m not sure the Times was ever good. In the 70s, it was a CIA leak sheet, and a number of its top reporters were actually CIA assets. It’s always been terrible on Israel. Back in the day, the best things about the Times were the real estate ads and Red Smith. Everything else was straight garbage.

  16. Realist says:
    @TomSchmidt

    Now the number of grammatical errors simply astounds.

    I don’t care about the grammatical errors….I talking about the god damn bullshit.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  17. Old Prude says:
    @anonymous

    How many books/novels has Sailer written? I like Sailer a great deal, but Derbyshire’s style is lovely and his scope is vast. His understanding of human nature is spot-on, and his intelligence, logic, and insight, nonpareil.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks, Hail
    • Replies: @Rich
    , @anonymous
  18. Alexander von Humboldt, who was infinitely smarter than you, thought that scientific racism was pathetic and ludicrous and vile.

  19. @obwandiyag

    Alexander von Humboldt, who was infinitely smarter than you, thought that scientific racism was pathetic and ludicrous and vile.

    Do you have a citation or quotation for that?

    Do you think reality is pathetic and ludicrous and vile? Reality looks very racist to me.

  20. Somewhat OT, but I’ve wondered lately if our elites have promoted this “Green New Deal” nonsense, not just because of their ignorance of thermodynamics, but also because they see the need to dismantle and dumb down the nation’s energy system in preparation for their plan to replace the white population. They understand on some level that the browning of the United States will deplete the smart fraction needed to run the system we have now.

    Nuclear power, especially, makes a big cognitive demand, and the U.S. won’t have enough smart people to maintain and operate nuclear power plants competently it when the population turns over demographically in another generation or two and we become a nation of brown dumbasses best suited for stoop labor.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    , @europeasant
  21. @obwandiyag

    Humboldt died in 1859, so he missed out on Darwin’s theory of evolution, the invention of modern statistics and the study of intelligence (both pioneered by Darwin’s cousin Francis Galton), and the discovery of the mechanism of heredity. What we have learned since Humboldt’s time has revolutionized our understanding of human biodiversity beyond Humboldt’s comprehension.

  22. Hail says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Mr. Derbyshire’s writing all flows together and is just more well thought-out and organized

    I agree, and would say Derbyshire’s writing is another example of the superiority of British rhetoric over American. As an American with no ties to Britain, I would have to admit this.

    Assign a Briton and an American, who have the same ideas and same IQ, to write an x-word article about y topic in z time and the Briton will simply tend to say it better, nicer, more aesthetically.

    It is not some mystery why Americans attribute +10 or +15 IQ points to (most forms of) a British accent. It is the latter’s way with words, their cultural tradition of, and emphasis on, strong rhetoric. We White Americans of Christian origin are a straightforward, plain-speaking people.

    • Replies: @Patrick in SC
  23. fondolo says:
    @Calvin X Hobbes

    infinitely smarter, but with centuries less experience.

  24. Not only do most people not understand tails of distributions, but the average person is really quite resistant to the idea that different groups might have different distributions, different averages and so forth. But if you stop even for a second to think about it, it would be quite amazing if different groups of people had the same distribution of characteristics and the same averages. If individual people differ, then why should any two groups of people be the same? It would be extraordinary if they were.

  25. @Achmed E. Newman

    I think journalism was a more honest field when it was practiced by people called “reporters”.

    What, you mean academic institutions still call it journalism? I thought by now it would be “public information dissemination studies.”

  26. By-tor says:
    @Asagirian

    Harmon’s version can only be depicted in a Hollywood movie, such as the one celebrating the futuristic spear throwers of Wakanda ( Wauconda, IL ) and Atlanta. Black children in the US are predominately wards of the Leftist Ruling Class’ Welfare State because of the crude ghetto culture and low IQ.

  27. This is a bit of topic but I read that males are 12 times more likely to score 700 or better
    on the SAT math part than are females. However the winner of the Fields medal a couple of years
    ago was an Iranian woman who died at 40. Larry Summers of Harvard was criticized heavily
    when he said something to a similar effect at a lecture concerning the lower number of science
    majors among women.

  28. @Aryan Racist

    Criticized hell, he was ousted as President of the University, after he went so far as to stupidly apologize. One woman professor said she almost fainted straight away after hearing Mr. Summers’ scarily-biased speech. I think it’s high time for those of us in academia to all go around carrying smelling salts for these occasions, in addition to the usual pepper spray and 9 mm CCW on some of our more vibrant campi.

  29. Mac says:
    @anonymous

    Sailer / Derbyshire
    describes self as “blithe” / describes self as “ornery”
    “citizenist” / “dissident right”

    Both have vast backround knowledge, but

    Sailer more interested in pop culture, African-Americans, journalism, novelty
    Derbyshire more interested in “Dead White Males”, China, literature, (political) philosophy

    Sailer identifies his greatest strength as his “pattern recognition”–dependent on being observant, good memory for trivia, high IQ, open-minded, unconcerned with potential backlash.

    Derbyshire seems more interested in explicitly defending a certain political philosophy (the “dissident right”) and associated policy (“Trump, don’t sign that immigration bill!”). Sailer seems reluctant to identify too heavily with being “right-wing”, preferring one-off observations and recommendations to defending a broader philosophy. As others have pointed out, he frequently leaves his essays without conclusions. Perhaps he feels this style broadens the appeal of his writing, and he could well be right.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @ia
    , @anonymous
  30. @Hail

    Agree.

    The difference in political speech-making is painful. It’s not that British pols are marvelous human beings, it’s just that they can actually speak. Imagine Prime Minister’s Question Time in this country. Ouch.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  31. @TomSchmidt

    My memory may be slightly at fault here, but I read The Wheezing Old Grey Yenta regularly all through the ’80s and it seemed to me they could not get through a single issue without at least 6 references to/or maudlin articles about Kristallnacht. I wonder if it is even worse than that now.

  32. @obwandiyag

    Did Alexander von Humboldt ever get the opportunity to spend any quality time in, say, Detroit or Baltimore or Ferguson, Missouri?

    • Replies: @El Dato
  33. Daniel H says:

    They lack any genetic evidence to explain the gap in average I.Q. scores between white and black Americans that they cite as the basis of their belief.

    And woe to the researcher who actually does seek out the genetic evidence. Amy Harmon will be at the front of the pitchforks, ready to grab and defenestrate him.

  34. Rich says:
    @Old Prude

    Sailer has only written one book that I’m aware of, it was called “America’s Half Blood Prince” about a former American president.

    • Replies: @Hail
  35. Hail says: • Website
    @Rich

    He has talked of publishing a Best of Steve Sailer book. I don’t know why this hasn’t happened. It would be a good way to supplement his donation drives.

  36. @Colin Wright

    Generally correct. I think that the Z-Man has it right. Articles like the one from Ms. Harmon are about imposing a morality on society, no matter what it takes.

    https://thezman.com/wordpress/?p=16618

    Derb is like Sailer, a CivNat. They refuse to reject the Left’s morality. Sure, they mock the Left’s silliness, hoping that their facts and logic will win the day. But by discussing it at all, they acknowledge it as the way things are. And the truth is that snickering behind the bully’s back will never – NEVER – stop a bully.

    You either take him on or you find another playground. Sailer and Derb refuse to do either. I love them, but they refuse to accept that we’re not going to debate our way out of this problem, nor will be vote our way out.

    It’s time to stop arguing with the other side. It’s time to either fight back or start building our own separate community where they’re morality has no sway.

    • Agree: Monotonous Languor
  37. llloyd says: • Website
    @anonymous

    When John Derbyshire keeps away from race and immigration, he is enjoyable and illuminating to read. However lately, that is all he seems to write about. A point is going to be reached that I am going to stop reading him if it seems to be those subjects. Would it bother John, if he looked around and all the mathematicians in America were Asian? Maybe half Asian. That appears to be what is going to happen when both John and I have shuffled off this mortal place.

  38. Alfa158 says:
    @Asagirian

    I recall decades ago one of those Popular Science type magazines ran a how-to story on making one of these in your garage. Impressive as a project for the local school science fair, but I think it involved high voltage, and science fairs these days have probably become very cautious about things that might burn, bang or zap, and the occasional neutron or gamma ray that is emitted freaks people out. I would imagine that entries today lean more toward subjects like the effects of climate change on non-binary gender indigenous peoples in Asia-Pacific.

  39. @dearieme

    Yeah, better than Ambien. Usually only read The Gray Hag for the editorials, back when they had decent chaps on the OpEd section (Safire, Reston etc.). Haven’t bothered to buy the damn thing in over twenty years. It always tilted left but guys like Reston, Rosie (A.M. Rosenthal) etal would at least try to be fair. Now? Fuggedaboudit! Just another arm (along with the WaPo) of the demokrat party propaganda machine.

    • Replies: @John Conner
  40. MBlanc46 says:
    @Patrick in SC

    I worked in London for a couple of years in the 1980s. I remarked to an English colleague that I thought that British political debate was of a much higher caliber than American. My colleague, who had taught in the US and was here quite often, said that he thought it was just the opposite. I still think that I was right, but his disagreement does make me think. Perhaps familiarity-breeds-contempt is a factor.

  41. @Buck Ransom

    I don’t know about worse, but the go-to reference these days is Emmett Till, not Kristallnacht.

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  42. @Calvin X Hobbes

    Ol’ obwandiyag makes Amy Harmon look like Demosthenes, Aristotle and Newton all rolled into one.

  43. @Buck Ransom

    I believe it was SPY Magazine who suggested, back in the 80s, that a more fitting name for the NY Times would be “Holocaust Update”.

    Forget which wag it was who quipped, “The NYT doesn’t have a funnies page… but it /does/ have Abe Rosenthal.”

    It’s been Unforgiveable horsesh!t ever since I was a lad.

    • Replies: @Wally
  44. @Hasdrubal Plenum-Smith

    It’s been a while, Mr. Smith. Maybe it is already for all I know – PIDS 101: The Government as the source of All News, 3 credits + 1 credit lab (student must supply own kneepads).

  45. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I compared the writing styles earlier, CoaSC. On their material, I agree that Mr. Sailer doesn’t seem to think that America’s problems can’t be reversed with just a little bit better understanding by the ctrl-left. Mr. Derbyshire, however, did write We are Doomed in contrast.

    What I think is that both of these writers had never really understood the role of Big Gov’t/Socialism as the major cause of our downfall, Mr. Derbyshire because he’s still British in some ways, and Mr. Sailer because he doesn’t put much thought into that stuff. I also think both guys are great reading and good people, but one minor thing about Steve Sailer that irks me is his awe for Hollywood people. Yeah, he lives in Los Angeles, but c’mon!

    Lastly, they both seem to have this strange love/hate relationship with the NY Times, but I suppose it is important to us what the elites are getting fed, so this is just opposition research. The rest of us would be better off to ignore the NY Times et al, as big wastes of time and unnecessary causes of high blood pressure.

  46. SafeNow says:
    @advancedatheist

    Yes, nuclear power requires pre-replacement types. But the Green New Deal’s elimination of air travel is also not just for climate reasons. A big reason is who will be able to pilot the planes and work the air traffic control.

  47. One of the smartest math students I have met is black. I told him he should try to get into Harvard but he didn’t seem interested. He got a good job doing something with computer networks. The thing is, few blacks are 100% black, so even if black genes are bad at math there should be some white math genes sneaking through. I think sociological factors play a larger role than JD does. Also, in today’s money-mad society someone who is good at math will likely skip pure math in favor of investment banking or some other specialty that pays well. Probably feudalism is a better environment when it comes to nurturing mathematicians.

  48. @Oleaginous Outrager

    Maybe so, but the go-to reference will be decided on by the same crowd.

  49. @Achmed E. Newman

    True about the Derb. A man who wrote an entire book on the fact that we’re doomed due to our immigration policies and other issues knows the score. That said, Derb hasn’t followed his own logic and moved on to what’s next.

    That’s my issue with Steve and Derb. Either they think that we can debate our way out of this (Steve), in which case they’re delusional, or they know that the old world (the white world) that we once knew is terminally ill (Derb) but refuse to think and write about what whites can do to survive and even flourish in the world that’s coming, in which case they’re either lazy or cowards (not wanting to lose what small place they retain among public intellectuals).

    Either way, I am a rapidly losing respect for two guys that I have greatly respected for years.

    The best that I can hope is that Steve and Derb very much understand the situation but see themselves as a soft landing ground for normie whites who are new to all of this. Someone needs to gently explain to them that their world is not as it seems and, indeed, is rapidly crumbling around them. It takes time. (Trust me, I know because I was one of them.) And it’s an easier pill to swallow with Steve and Derb’s wit.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  50. @jack daniels

    You may be right about feudalism being a better environment for fostering mathematicians dedicated purely to math and not Wall Street wizardry, but you’re laughably wrong about everything else that you wrote.

    First, environment at best accounts for 50% of intelligence and likely far more, probably closer to 80% by the time that we’re adults. Indeed, in first world countries where food and shelter aren’t an issue, environment becomes even less important. So, no, American blacks aren’t being held back by their environment, at least not by more one or two IQ points, i.e. not enough to move the needle. (Also, who do you think creates that environment? Yeah, other blacks.)

    Second, American blacks are on average 85% African, which, of course, is why they’re not quite as low IQ as their full African cousins. Not sure your point here. I guess that you’re saying that some half-blacks have a shot at being PhD-level mathematicians if they get lucky enough to have a lot of very smart white genes. Well, yeah.

    Related, are you saying that there would be more black PhDs in math if not for the temptation of more money on Wall Street or other endevors? Two issues here. First, the same can be said for whites and Asians, so it’s a wash.

    Second, remember the numbers (we are talking about math), the numbers of blacks scoring a 750 or above in math – what you need to have a shot at being a PhD in math – are tiny and correspond with the number of black mathematicians. So, no, there’s not some pool of black math geniuses that are being sucked into other fields.

    Btw, congrats on having such a smart black friend. Maybe he can explain what “on average” or “outlier” mean.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @res
    , @Franklin Ryckaert
  51. Truth says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I guess that you’re saying that some half-blacks have a shot at being PhD-level mathematicians if they get lucky enough to have a lot of very smart white genes. Well, yeah.

    Gotta love those Mulattoooooeez!

    http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/PEEPS/farley_jonathan.html

  52. res says:
    @obwandiyag

    For people who care about references (and truth), here is a relevant paper: Alexander Von Humboldt on Slavery in America
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/40402500
    Full text available on libgen.

    This looks like a pretty good take on Humboldt’s views (concluding statement of the paper):

    Finally, we should not forget that it was Alexander von Humboldt who
    wrote in his Kosmos:

    In maintaining the unity of the human race we also reject the disagreeable assumption of superior and inferior peoples. Some peoples are more pliable, more highly educated and ennobled by intellectual culture, but there are no races which are more noble than others. All are equally entitled to freedom: to freedom which in the state of nature belongs to the individual and which in civilization belongs as a right to the entire citizenry through political institutions.34

    Seems much more like an anti-slavery statement than commentary on group differences.

    Feel free to provide your own references, obwandiyag.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  53. res says:
    @Aryan Racist

    See my comment at
    http://www.unz.com/jthompson/tilting-at-sex-differences/#comment-2236923
    Based on this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289610000346

    From my comment there:

    bucket_____V 700 males__V 700 females__M 700 males__M 700 females
    1991-1995_____7___________9__________271_________70
    2006-2010____117_________134_________628_________164

    In no 5 year sex group did more than 100 score 800 on either subtest. In 1981-1985 there were exactly 0 800s. In 1981-1995 there were exactly 0 verbal 800s, 0 female math 800s, and 8 male math 800s.

    So the real ratio is more like 4x.

    Revisiting the original paper it looks like someone is repeating the 13/13.5 numbers from this.

    From 1981–1985, the male–female ratios at the ≥500, ≥600 and ≥700 levels were 2.61 to 1, 5.82 to 1, and 13.5 to 1, respectively, thus replicating previous findings (Benbow & Stanley, 1980, 1983; 2.1 to 1, 4.1 to 1, and 13 to 1 respectively). From 1986 to the present, the male–female ratio declined at several levels and time periods. As can be seen in Fig. 1, the ratio of students scoring ≥700 (top 0.01%) on the SAT-M began to fall immediately after 1981–1985, but has remained relatively stable for the last two decades at roughly 4 to 1, with the most recent time period (2006–2010) indicating a ratio of 3.83 to 1. Thus, we confirm a decline, although not to the level given by Stanley and commonly cited in the research literature. Among perfect scorers (800) on the SAT-M, the ratio was 6.58 to 1 for 2006–2010, showing that even at the utmost right tail, the male–female ratio is now well below 13 to 1.

    I think Wai et al. may have made a mistake here and that Benbow & Stanley 13 number was for the SMPY (13 year olds, so a much higher threshold, with a correspondingly higher M/F ratio), but I can’t find the right reference to be sure. But see the caption of Figure 1 which indicates how they got their 13.5 number for 1981-1985:

    Benchmarks for intellectual levels similar to 500 (the top 0.5%) and 700 (the top 0.01%) on the SAT-M were calculated using within distribution z-score approximations based on the overall SAT-M means and standard deviations.

    Chased down a reference. The 13 number was for the SMPY as I thought: https://www.gwern.net/docs/iq/smpy/2000-benbow.pdf

    The ratio was 2:1 for adolescents with SAT-M scores of at least 500, 4:1 for those with scores of at least 600, and 13:1 for those with scores of at least 700.

    But the 13.5 number seems to be legit. So you can make a weak case for your 12x figure. 4x looks like a much better estimate.

    This is a good reference for both sex and race differences on the pre-1995 SAT: https://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/RR-02-04-Dorans.pdf
    More about this paper at http://www.unz.com/jthompson/tilting-at-sex-differences/#comment-2229909

    So what does Maryam Mirzakhani’s Fields Medal make the overall M/F ratio there? 67:1 by my quick count (may be off a few). Seems consistent with the other numbers here.

  54. res says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Btw, congrats on having such a smart black friend. Maybe he can explain what “on average” or “outlier” mean.

    LOL!

  55. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    They refuse to reject the Left’s morality

    .

    Since when does a lust for absolute power constitute a “morality”?

    Morality is found mostly on the right. There are moralists in the center, but that’s where the amoral concentrate, too (e.g. publicly-funded stadia, tax abatements).

    But power is the only thing inspiring the Left.

  56. anon[119] • Disclaimer says:

    The purpose of a person like Amy Harmon is to push a narrative akin to a religion while making the lily good whites who read the Times feel intellectually (and morally) superior in the process. The fact that Harmon is a laughing stock among those with actual understanding of the subject is not important. The fact that she keeps wealthy, influential people of middling intellect on the right side of history is what matters.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  57. @res

    Thanks for confirming what I said while not even knowing your doing it, genius.

    • LOL: res
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  58. @Aryan Racist

    Larry Summers said that catholics make bad bankers. Larry Summers is an idiot. All university presidents are idiots. But Larry Summers is idioter than others. I would fire him just for the way he looks–like a wombat.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  59. I can’t believe you idiots, with all your graphs and statistical mumbo-jumbo, are confusing SATs, which are supposed to measure cumulative knowledge, with IQ tests, which are supposed to measure innate intelligence. The stupidest among you are the ones who post the most statistics. Or should I say “statistics.”

    • Replies: @res
    , @anonymous
    , @anonymous
  60. Anon[288] • Disclaimer says:

    “confusing SATs, which are supposed to measure cumulative knowledge, with IQ tests”

    There’s a correlation between the two; high SAT scores usually indicate high IQ scores. It’s not one-to-one, but it’s significant nonetheless. And since more people are familiar with SATs, and we can see group breakdown by year, it’s a useful measure. Further, SATs don’t necessarily measure “cumulative knowledge”. That’s the ACT. The Bell Curve explains that the highest SAT score a student can reasonably expect generally increases in ~logarithmic fashion (slowly towards some value) with study time, so innate genetic potential plays a role. There are exceptions, of course, but the law of large numbers shows that these exceptions will be smoothed out over a large sample size. The mean of a large group is what’s important here, not whether or not there is a rare genius who simply cannot take a standardized test for the life of him due to crippling social anxiety or PTSD.

    “The stupidest among you are the ones who post the most statistics.”

    Your understanding of the subject seems rather limited, as evidenced by your rather ignorant comments.

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Hibernian
  61. res says:
    @obwandiyag

    We get that you don’t understand statistics. No need to confirm that. Any real arguments or do you only have hot air?

    • Agree: Wally
  62. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    I may have written this before to you, CoaSC, but this is not a prepper site (I’ve read flat-out Mao-sack-hanging Commies on here, but never preppers!) These two excellent writers can do a great service in opening people’s eyes, and they both have a fair amount of courage and integrity to have avoided, or been purged by, the mainstream Lyin’ Press.

    Although often the prepper/survivalist writing gets into the best rocket stoves, how to modify a carburetor to run the generator on natural gas. best ways to store veggies … etc… – very good stuff mind you – they often do have commenters who try to help each other realize the best bet for a course of action to best ride out the shit-storm coming our way. It is VERY difficult for me to decide whether this country is worth fighting (in some fashion) for. There is no clear vision of how things will go down, so that impedes my decision-making.

    Unfortunately, as Geddy Lee sang, “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”:

  63. Derbyshire leaves out two of the most important points: 1) NY Times is a Jewish controlled propaganda of the Deep State. 2) Harmon (I think) is Jewish too. This is a 24 hour hateorama against all whites, white science and Western Civilization. What are you missing Derb?

    If you read Harmon carefully you will find she appears mentally ill and uses the same cultural meme in all her work. She doesn’t understand basic science and basically uses other cultural communists as her sources. She has no understanding of STEM majors at the university level and with her magic belief system that the reason for blacks not in enough position is because everything is white privilege. Yet, I wonder what she would say about Jews controlling entire departments in the social and humanities areas? Is that Jewish privilege? Oh, I forgot that doesn’t apply to them including the fact that in the Ivy Leagues over 75% of presidents, dean, and higher ups are…..Jewish. Blacks should aim not for STEM degrees because they really don’t pay much as compared to these administrative jobs which require bullshit and mickey mouse degrees.

    This will never end until they equalize our society…whatever that means. There is one basic rule about academia: You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit. You can give them fake degree, fake positions but that won’t make them any smarter!

  64. It was Jihad against elements and competition, That made faster development of Eurasians in comparison to African population. To catch up Africans would need a millennia to catch up and it would be possible under experience of the same conditions. Knowledge of Blacks is only superficial. It is as we say monkey see monkey do. After all even animals have some memory capability. To have an innovative logical brain functions black will never achieve.

  65. @anon

    The fact that she keeps wealthy, influential people of middling intellect on the right side of history is what matters.

    Or on the right side of hysterectomy.

  66. @Truth

    Who’s his Web designer? What’s the significance of the pee stains? Is he a Who fan?

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Commentator Mike
  67. They shoot horses, don’t they

    Priceless, Brilliant.

  68. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “…Btw, congrats on having such a smart black friend. Maybe he can explain what “on average” or “outlier” mean…”

    Or perhaps that “black” friend was only a “one drop” Black ?

  69. ChrisZ says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed, do you have any reading recommendations to supplement the knowledge I’ve gained from Sailer and Derb in a more practical way? I’d be most obliged by your thoughts.

    Perhaps you’ve dealt with the subject of the world that’s coming on your own blog?

  70. dearieme says:
    @obwandiyag

    “Alexander von Humboldt, who was infinitely smarter than you, thought that scientific racism was pathetic and ludicrous and vile.”

    Yeah, but Isaac Newton, who was infinitely smarter than me – and probably everyone else who has ever lived – thought it made sense to spend much of his time on alchemy and the occult.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
    , @dimples
  71. @Prester John

    If only Roseanne Barr had used this rag rather than Ambien she might still have her own show … .

  72. @obwandiyag

    You don’t really think that do you?

  73. @Mac

    Both perform the valuable function of taking apart bad arguments and dishonestly pushed theories.

  74. @llloyd

    Why do you think it would bother him if half the academic mathematicians in the US were Asian? Or if, as well 20 per cent were black? Of course he – and you – would rationally have to conclude that something very strange had happened to America, and that it might not be good.

  75. @Truth

    Maybe your black mathematician can be like Jack’s smart black buddy and explain what “average,” “standard deviation” and “outlier” mean to you.

    I know a woman who’s 6’1. In your mind, I guess that proves that women are the same height as men on average.

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @MikeatMikedotMike
  76. @Achmed E. Newman

    Agreed that I was a bit harsh. Derb and Steve have fought the good fight for decades – using their own names – giving up much in terms of career and money. They also do God’s work opening the eyes of normies and helping them cross the great divide to our side.

    Btw, not sure why you think I’m some prepper type. I have no clue what the future holds, but I’d suspect that it’s not some Balkans-like civil war (although that’s no longer completely unthinkable, just extremely unlikely) or Mad Max scenario. I’m just arguing that we’re moving past the point where debate matters. AOC and the upcoming POC majority simply won’t care.

    My argument is that the very small number of European Americans who understand what’s happening need to start getting to the grunt work of building our own community within the larger society that’s coming. We need our own business associations, community groups, schools (or, at least, programs for our children to learn about their heritage), political organizations, even ethnic churches, etc.

    Talk of civil war and fighting on the street is childish. We need to build. It’s not glamorous or glorious, but it’s what needs to be done. That’s not prepper stuff. Preppers are living in a fantasy world.

    My issue with Steve and Derb is that they don’t ever – ever – bring up what whites should be DOING. They just mock the other side using facts and logic hoping it will persuade them. It won’t. And even if Steve and Derb are doing this for the benefit of newbies, they should occassionally throw in some advice for what to do next.

  77. ia says:
    @Mac

    Sailer more interested in pop culture, African-Americans

    Like watching paint dry, isn’t it?

  78. @ChrisZ

    Chris, I used to visit the survivalist sites, and even Zerohedge used to have some articles, but moreso, very good commenters, that would discuss these worries and the making of concrete plans based on how each thought things will go down. You can find these type of sites, but I’d rather not suggest any, as it’s been a while and websites often morph. (I do remember survivalblog – by a guy named Wesley Raules(?), and the SHTFplan, written by a guy who experienced the misery in Bosnia, but wrote in bad English – on purpose I think, to make people believe him more!)

    Peak Stupidity is not a survivalist/prepper site, Chris*. I really wish I lived in a place with more with-it independent, survivalist types, such as I’ve met, and even read words from right here. I can’t move right now though, but that’s just it: I really want to know more about how things will pan out, whether it’s worth it to care about traditional America, etc. before I make a plan. I guess you’ve got to hedge and guess, though ….

    .

    * although I do maintain that the Peak of Stupidity comes when the financial stupidity reaches a head, and a big financial crisis occurs, most likely leading to political crises. I don’t think the world will have time for any of the stupidity (feminism, genderbending, race hustling, etc…) at that point. I wish I could tell you when, but in 2010 I reckoned America wouldn’t last the way it is now for even 5 years.

    • Replies: @ChrisZ
  79. Now who is being facetious? Amy Harmon knows that blacks can’t rise up to the requisite level in mathematics but she has a job to do to promote them per cultural Marxists’ agenda at NYT and you know that’s what she is attempting to do, so then, why the fake outrage? Had you had any cajones, Limey, you would firebomb the Gray Lady instead of taking up space here!

  80. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Preppers are living in a fantasy world.

    There are various levels. You can go by the people on those Doomsday shows on TV, but you know that the media wants to make them look bad. Some are ready for Mad Max/TEOTWAWKI*, the SHTF, or simply a very bad economy for a long time. Then again, I see the people that do want to start their own schools, maybe some local civil defense, etc, as preppers too, just at a different level.

    Yeah, CoaSC, I didn’t assume you were storing diesel on 1000 gallon tanks, dehydrating venison, and burying guns (yet!), but I do know from your comments that you are in the same quandary as me, wondering whether America will go the Brazil route or what, and whether Americans will ever get enough of a clue in large enough numbers to do what you suggest, etc.

    And even if Steve and Derb are doing this for the benefit of newbies, they should occasionally throw in some advice for what to do next.

    That’d be good, but I guess it’s just not their thing. For one thing, as I believe I wrote above, they are really not anti-Socialism enough for my tastes. You can’t support Socialism, yet still argue for the good traditional-America-building ideas that you stated in the one paragraph.

    .

    * In case anyone doesn’t recognize that, I’ll just put a song in here:

  81. @ChrisZ

    For both you and Citizen of a Silly Country – Equal time here for a real prepper song. This guy Corb Lund is from Alberta, Canada:

    No one wants paper money, son, so you just better stop countin’.

  82. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Perhaps they are working for the powers that be in reality while performing lip service…

  83. Truth says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    A little too intellectual for me, Bro.

  84. Truth says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    No, but I can reasonably assume that Mr. Farley is smarter than you are.

  85. Harbinger says:

    I remember going out for a drink, with a black woman while in London, about 12 years ago. While talking profession came up and I found out she was a math teacher. I asked what drew her to want to teach math and she told me that not only was she not a math professor, having not studied in university, she was a physical education teacher who was offered more money to teach math.

    London and positive discrimination (affirmative action in the US) has brought about the insanity of people in professions they haven’t the skills for, while those who do work in a 9-5, outside their profession because they’re white. Positive Discrimination murdered meritocracy, all in order to fool the west that blacks have the same intelligence as whites.

    • Disagree: ben sampson
  86. awry says:
    @Buck Ransom

    Sándor Márai, a Hungarian writer who lived in the USA after he fled from Communism had this to say in his diary about the NYT (sorry for the raw translation based on Google Translate):

    The New York Times. I haven’t seen it for four years. Not that I missed it, but now, as I take the pound-weight Sunday copy, the bitter-stuffy ghetto smells from the pages – and from its readers, the New York Jewry -…. 90% advertisements, 10% hate, defamatory hostility against everything and everyone who is not a Jew. There is a Jewish conspiracy in the world – New York is the not secret bunker of this conspiracy – a ruthless, hardy, all-rage breeding, fascist Jewish conspiracy that uses communism as a tool (like the Nazis) for Jewish racial domination purposes. The New York Times is an English-language mouthpiece of this racial conspiracy – they might as well printed it in Hebrew letters for Zionists

  87. @Truth

    You got me, Sport. I’ll listen to it, and try to make something out of it. Yes, I do know almost everything played by Rush, but, as with most music, it’s the tune and sound that really matter. Good lyrics are just a flourish … unless you’re singing folk songs about hammering in the morning and shit.

    See Peak Stupidity’s What makes a good song?

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  88. anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @Old Prude

    Sailer has a very powerful way of cutting through bullshit even if it is sometimes less than eloquent. Derbyshire just sounds angry about blacks.

  89. this as is anything concerned John Derbyshire in these pages is gitz, impsy, arsehol-ish. I am pissed at myself for even getting to a Derbyshire article… but here I am anyway

    what is the truth relative to Blacks and math?

    I am sure this article and all the replies under it, contributed zilch to further clarity on this issue… if it is indeed an issue

    I don’t have the faintest clue as to the true state of math awareness and capability among Black people the world over. I know there are a lot of Black american scientists in american industry, government, schools etc. you do not become a scientist of any kind unless you are facile in math.

    it is the same all over the world..many Black scientists..an increasing factor not a decreasing one. guys apparently are simply choosing not to become mathematicians for whatever reasons

    I grew up in a majority Black country. all the teachers were Black and all were facile in math..ALL..right through the levels. I don’t know no Black people who do not have high school math..and beyond. All are facile in math. why at least some did not on to become mathematicians I don’t know. I can think of at least 3 who can be if they wanted to be

    we have a world that has been driven off the rails by white domination. any unusual thing is possible given massive white depredations on humanity, on planet earth for at least 400 years now. white people have been super destructive not positive. all the ills can be traced back to white planetary destructiveness.

    look at what Derbyshire complains about here..the degradation of a supposedly once classy and proud newspaper, into a garbage publication.

    Black mathematicians did not do that. there aren’t even enough to go around. its white people themselves did that.

    and it is arguable of course whether the Times, the newspaper in question was ever a good publication..or well meant and intended, relative to the whole population it addressed. I for one never saw the NYT as anything but a tool of white domination, imperialism in the world, elitist and racist. that is what it was and is even in its technical decline.

    I don’t care about the NYT at all..never did and don’t now for all those reasons. never did and never read it unless I got a free copy. I would not pay for the dam paper.

    and look! we cant get a grip on the issue at all from what is offered here as an issue..a dearth of Black mathematicians… which may not be an issue at all. as a matter of fact I am happy that there are only vanishingly few Black men and women mathematician, who would be of course in the american military making that military more capable of killing people of color the world over

    this talk here issue pisses me off because it has nothing to do with the truth of Black people relative to the study and profession of math in the world..about the facility of Black people in math the world over. i don’t know what that facility is but no one here does either.

    but I am confident however, on and by my experience of life as Black human being..that reality is nowhere near any projected negative as on this page..to be found in the overall bigoted irrelevance
    here starting with Derbyshire

    • Replies: @By-tor
    , @awry
  90. anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mac

    Sailer more interested in African Americans? Than Derbyshire?

  91. crimson2 says:

    Most likely it’s nothing at all. Those zygotes emerge from conception as perfect little blank slates, right? Only Nazis think otherwise.

    I wonder if scientific racists like John Derbyshire will ever respond to the actual critiques of the “hereditarian” argument of IQ.

    The main problem is that, since its inception as a metric, IQs have changed considerably. The Flynn effect shows that IQs have risen by about 3 points per decade. This isn’t controversial in any way. Also, not controversial: the black-white IQ gap has been shrinking. Charles Murray, for example, acknowledges this.

    Since we know the value of the Flynn effect, we can state that the average black American today has a slightly higher IQ than the average white American’s grandparents. This is, again, not controversial.

    So what”s the problem? It seems like if IQ is all about heredity then the black people of today have genes slightly superior to Nana and PeePaw? Why is there any worry?

    This fact tends to tie racists like Derbyshire in knots. I have yet to hear a good answer, and I have no expectations of seeing a good explanation here.

  92. @Harbinger

    It is not uncommon for people with a degree in one field have the prerequisite education and background to teach another subject. Hence why when applying for teaching positions, it is not uncommon that a complete CV and course breakdown be submitted.

    The assumption that a degree in one field but teaching in another reflects some manner of affirmative action is a failure to comprehend the academic teaching community. It’s akin to the assumption thata degree in any particular field equates to the ability to teach period.

    That practice (cross discipline teaching) has existed since there has been education.

  93. @Reg Cæsar

    If it was the Georgia Guidestones it’d be understandable but I don’t think they were built yet. Still the symbolism is obvious – concrete as opposed to nature – and they’re showing you what they think.

  94. anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    ‘Larry Summers said that catholics make bad bankers.’

    Twll him who the fugger family were. Whilst you are at it tell him who the lombards were.

    • Replies: @Anon
  95. anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    ‘with all your graphs and statistical mumbo-jumbo’

    Unfortunate choice of words.

    Tsk

  96. anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @obwandiyag

    ‘I can’t believe you idiots, with all your graphs and statistical mumbo-jumbo, are confusing SATs, which are supposed to measure cumulative knowledge, with IQ tests, which are supposed to measure innate intelligence. ‘

    Find a dictionary and look up the word correlation. Then get yourself a copy of the bell curve.

  97. anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    ‘Your understanding of the subject seems rather limited, as evidenced by your rather ignorant comments.’

    In several decades this will be his epitah.

  98. @Harbinger

    that is nonsense isn’t it! what the hell is this then..Harbinger just wanted to say something, had nutten of value to, and just cut loose with that crap?

    if she teachers math she has the facility to so..or she would not be teaching it effectively… so that she was still doing it at the doing of that listed conversation at least. if she was not effective, was not facile at math she would not have been asked to do it..and the kids would rebel

    that happens all the time everywhere..where people with facility are often asked to fill in due to local need in areas for which they are not specifically traine.. but are nevertheless very capable at it

    and that Black woman surely was capable at math.

    what struck me is that she actually went for a drink with Harbinger eh? not on your life! or if she actually did I bet she never went again..and learnt something by that experience about the men she ought to avoid in future

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  99. @Truth

    Mr Farley is a smart guy. An underachieving a-hole, though, in my opinion. Do you have any idea where he is now and what he’s up to? A quick googling did not tell me.

    What’s your opinion about racial differences in mental ability? Do you think that it’s likely that blacks are genetically just as smart as whites and Asians? There are obviously some extremely smart blacks, but they’re relatively rare. Why do you think it is that even blacks who grow up in prosperous families are usually not all that bright?

  100. anonymous[273] • Disclaimer says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    ‘The assumption that a degree in one field but teaching in another reflects some manner of affirmative action is a failure to comprehend the academic teaching community.’

    In terms of composing verbose comments to make yourself sound smart…less is more.

    The point of the anecdote is that teaching gym class and teaching mathematics are not in any way correlated. My gym teachers were not fit to do anything more than run a boy scout troupe. The woman should obviously not have been offered the job. The commenter says it is due to affirmative action but we cannot be sure as he supplies no evidence. It is however the exact type of thing affimative action might lead to.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  101. @Truth

    Along with basic statistics, maybe the very smart, very black Mr. Farley can teach you what ad hominem means.

    When the NFL finally gets a white cornerback, you can tell me all about how whites are as fast as blacks.

  102. res says:
    @Truth

    Farley sounds impressive (summa cum laude at Harvard majoring in math).

    But I kind of laughed at this: “Farley’s heroes include the African military genius Hannibal”

    I wonder if he thinks Hannibal was of sub-Saharan ancestry?
    https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/10/opinion/l-about-hannibal-s-color-no-one-really-knows-714091.html
    http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?md=read;id=1895

    I get a good chuckle out of language like: “it is just possible that Hannibal looked more like Washington.” That’s nice. Would you bet your hard earned cash on it? Say if we were to find a DNA sample.

    But back on topic, maybe Amy Harmon should interview Farley about his experiences. It sounds like he has received plenty of recognition.

    Dr. Farley is the 2004 recipient of the Harvard Foundation’s Distinguished Scientist Award, a medal presented on behalf of the president of Harvard University for “outstanding achievements and contributions in the field of mathematics.” The City of Cambridge, Massachusetts declared March 19, 2004 to be “Dr. Jonathan David Farley Day.” In 2005, he was named a Science Fellow of Stanford University’s Center for International Security.

    I wonder how that compares to the recognition accorded to white (or Asian) mathematicians of similar (or greater) ability and accomplishment?

    • Replies: @Calvin X Hobbes
  103. Wally says:
    @TomSchmidt

    said:
    “No, it really was better. Left-liberal, annoying, but spelling errors and outright bias in reporting was not tolerated, or at least blatant.”

    How can any newspaper which praised Communism and Stalin be “better”?

    • Replies: @TomSchmidt
  104. @EliteCommInc.

    exactly! totally true! the school would know her educational facilities because of her cv and in a pinch ask her to fill in to get over a school difficulty… which could simply have been inability to find a qualified candidate just yet to do the job

    Harbinger must have been pissed because halfway through the drink she realized she made a mistake and took off

  105. @dearieme

    Isac Newton had one brilliant idea. He formulated the law of gravity. One day he was sleeping in his garden and apple did fall on his head.
    That resulted in birth in his head that not only earth was pulling the apple, but apple was also pulling the earth. That led him to formulate the law of gravity The force of pull was equal to the mass and the travel was inverted according to mass. it means earth did travel towards apple a very tiny bit while apple traveled a lot.
    After that Newton spent rest of his life playing with prisms analyzing sun beam, but he got nowhere there.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  106. @Reuben Kaspate

    Wouldn’t shock me to discover that Steve and Derb were unknowingly being used as safe release valves. Give race-aware whites some place to vent without actually doing anything.

    But that strategy seems a bit dangerous. Letting people wake up at all can lead them to go off the reservation. I’m an example of that. However, that said, I have noticed that my comments criticizing Steve’s unwillingness to promote any course of action for whites are either not posted on iSteve or held for so long that they don’t matter. He seems very wary of any call to action, even the mild, non-violent goals that I list.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    , @Truth
  107. @Calvin X Hobbes

    Truth isn’t hear to debate or exchange ideas. He’s here to obfuscate.

  108. @anonymous

    Get your hands on crime statistics, and you’d be angry about blacks as well.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  109. “Also, not controversial: the black-white IQ gap has been shrinking. Charles Murray, for example, acknowledges this.”

    and the reason for this is that after close and dominated association for 400 year, Black people Have become white people.

    the disappearing disparity between Black and White IQ and what it means, is no positive thing to me..unless whites too have changed to have imbibed the old Black humanitarianism that would make them more human than they have been

    if the change means the loss of our old humanitarianism..and it does appear that is indeed what has happened.. we are in trouble, the world is in trouble when Blacks and Whites are of the same cruel and destructive type of human beings

    the merging of white and black IQ levels may not be a good thing at all

  110. Harbinger says:
    @ben sampson

    And you were there?
    I don’t think so.
    How about you don’t get into conversations you are clearly ignorant upon?

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  111. @crimson2

    Lying isn’t nice. 😉

    The Flynn effect is more about children learning how to take tests better than their parents and grandparents via the use of technology, which requires a logical line of thinking, rather than an increase in actual intelligence, “g”. Regardless, the black-white IQ gap isn’t shrinking.

    http://www.unz.com/isteve/flynn-effect-smart-get-smarter/

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2907168/

    • Replies: @crimson2
  112. Harbinger says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    There was a shortage of maths teachers in the school she was at. She was asked to teach maths, from doing PE.
    I asked her what her qualifications were and she had a GCSE in maths and that was it. I’m merely telling you what she told me. She was not math professor and when I asked how she could teach math, without the knowledge, she simply stated “They give me a syllabus to teach and I teach it. There is no ‘outside the box’ requirements. I simply write down on the board, what they tell me to.”

    That’s the state of teaching in the UK today. It’s just programming. Long gone are the days where teachers brought out the individual within the human. Now it’s all collectivist ‘part of the group’ indoctrination that’s being foisted upon students. They are simply being programmed to be wage slaves and nothing more.

  113. Wally says:
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Indeed, the “holocau$t’ story which is simply impossible, laughably so.
    http://www.codoh.com
    Just a few of examples from the Zionist NYT:

    Atrocity Propaganda and the Holocaust, Is There a Lesson Here?, By Paul Grubach:

    “A young Polish Jew who escaped from a mass execution in Poland… repeated a story [told to him by escapees who allegedly saw the electrocution machinery at at Belzec]… Jews were forced naked onto a metal platform operated as a hydraulic elevator which lowered them into a huge vat filled with water. They were electrocuted by current through the water.”
    – February 12, 1944, New York Times

    see: NYT / Time – Life promote human soap and human skin lampshade lies,
    Soap and Lampshades: The Lies Persist, By Richard A. Widmann : https://codoh.com/library/document/628/?lang=en

    NYT / Christopher Browning and the “Nazi Gas Chambers” of Belzec, By Paul Grubach : https://codoh.com/library/document/962/?lang=en#ftnref11

  114. res says:
    @crimson2

    The main problem is that, since its inception as a metric, IQs have changed considerably. The Flynn effect shows that IQs have risen by about 3 points per decade.

    I have yet to hear a good answer, and I have no expectations of seeing a good explanation here.

    We don’t know the exact reason for the Flynn effect (yet), but consider height. There was a similar trend in height throughout the 20th century. Do you think height has a strong genetic component? Perhaps you have noticed that tall parents tend to have tall children and short parents tend to have short children? (and of course, one can observe a similar phenomenon for intelligence)

    We can currently predict height from a person’s DNA with considerable accuracy. Between that and all of the other evidence height clearly has a strong genetic component and also demonstrates a trend similar to the Flynn Effect. The IQ GWAS are not to that point yet (they seem to require larger sample sizes), but heritability estimates indicate we are likely to reach that point soon for IQ.

    As far as explanations for the Flynn effect, the two leading contenders seem to be improved nutrition (the likely cause of the height trend) and increased education improving familiarity with the kind of questions appearing on IQ tests. IMHO it is most likely a combination of those and other smaller causes.

    Also, not controversial: the black-white IQ gap has been shrinking.

    Two points.
    1. It is more controversial than you seem willing to admit. There is much argument about the exact magnitude of the gap and the steepness and consistency of the trend.
    2. That is not a decisive argument against IQ having a genetic component.

    Let’s look at a paper with a conclusion you will approve of: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324074343_Has_the_Black-White_IQ_Gap_in_the_United_States_Narrowed_A_Literature_Review

    Abstract:

    I review the evidence on whether the black-white IQ gap has decreased in size in the United States since psychometric testing began there. I conclude that most studies show that the gap has narrowed, and that those studies reaching a contradictory conclusion generally seem to do so due to methodological flaws.

    This hardly sounds like a non-controversial area (point 1).

    Smith goes on to say:

    Even if the gap has narrowed, it may not pose a fatal flaw for those who maintain that is mainly due to genetics, simply because few, if any, hereditarians would claim that it was entirely due to genetics and thus impervious to potential environmental factors.

    I’d say that is a strong affirmation of my point 2.

    For those interested in the magnitude of the gap that introductory paragraph concludes with:

    Gottfredson (2005a), for example, argued that insofar as the achievement gap between blacks and whites in the US has narrowed, it does not undermine the hereditarian position. She writes (Gottfredson 2005a, p. 313): “Black–White achievement gaps in the 1971–1999 NAEP Trend Series were no larger or smaller than g theory would predict. The maximum expected is 1.20 standard deviation (the size of the Black–White g gap itself), and the minimum is 0.80 +/- 0.04 standard deviation (1.20 multiplied by the IQ– achievement correlations in core subjects).” (Gottfredson, 2005b) This is similar to the argument made by Rushton & Jensen (2006), who argue that although the BWIG may have narrowed, the best estimate for the most it may have narrowed by is 3.44 points in the past 100 years (i.e. 1906-2006). They concluded that this estimated narrowing, corresponding to an effect size of 0.23, is “. . . well within the predictions of our estimated heritability of .80 for the Black-White g difference in the United States.” Of course, this relies on the assumption that black-white differences in IQ reflect black-white differences in g,
    an assumption contradicted by at least one study (Fagan and Holland, 2007).

    I will add that final sentence is questionable given the entirety (not one cherry-picked example) of the literature surrounding Spearman’s hypothesis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spearman%27s_hypothesis

    P.S. Just wanted to emphasize this part of the big block quote above: “our estimated heritability of .80 for the Black-White g difference in the United States.” That’s on the order of the heritability of height.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  115. @llloyd

    Mathematicians in the West are not going to be Asian. John Derbyshire refuses to deal with the racial reality that Asians contributed nothing to mathematics. His Chinese family is the reason.

    • Replies: @Calvin X Hobbes
  116. @Harbinger

    “How about you don’t get into conversations you are clearly ignorant upon?”

    what do you mean?

  117. @Harbinger

    she told you all of that!?
    why?

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  118. @res

    But back on topic, maybe Amy Harmon should interview Farley about his experiences. It sounds like he has received plenty of recognition.

    It looks to me like Farley has received awards and recognition way out of proportion to his work in mathematics. A white or Asian professor of math with his record would be regarded as nothing special.

  119. Truth says:
    @Calvin X Hobbes

    I believe that on average, different “races” have different skillsets. Of course as individuals this does not count. I got biblical here for a second but decided against it and erased.

    In any event I think that it is true, most young black men are not suited to be Phds in Theoretical Math… and neither are most white men, Jews, or East Asians, but the nunber of blacks in lower.
    MHO most young black men excel making their livings in job fields which require communication, physicality or emotional exchange of some sort. Most African-Americans do not have any interest in doing math equasions, (or coding, or looking throught a microscope) for 12 hours.

  120. @ben sampson

    did she tell you the school she worked at also ?

  121. Derbyshire won’t know what to do with himself if the New York Times “shuts down”. He could try to write something instead of the screeds of button pushing group think. Say, maybe there’s an opening at the New York Times for someone with those skills. Higher pay instead of shoveling dirt at one of the satellite offices.

  122. By-tor says:
    @ben sampson

    “I don’t have the faintest clue as to the true state of math awareness and capability among Black people the world over. I know there are a lot of Black american scientists in american industry, government, schools etc. you do not become a scientist of any kind unless you are facile in math.”

    If you ‘know’ there are black scientists, where are they besides in TV commercials and Hollywood’s ethno-propaganda movies? They are a mysterious, phantom sub-population to be sure. I believe that they are in Wakanda keeping the 22nd Century’s marvels hidden from Whitey. Who knows for sure?

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  123. @Realist

    I attended a school where the orientation was conservative, with a strong emphasis on rhetoric. Teachers would assign columns by William Safire and other writers because of the standard of their written words, regardless of content. I cannot imagine that use for it anymore.

    The problem is not that there’s political bias. It’s that it has crept out of Op-ed and Editorial and become the ONLY thing that the paper does consistently anymore. I can think of two or three NYT articles from the past few years that did the job the press is supposed to do, attempting to hold public officials accountable. For the rest, it’s just constant political haranguing.

    • Replies: @Realist
  124. @Buck Ransom

    I recall once that they had, ON THE SAME FRONT PAGE, an article complaining about Jorg Haider and the freedom party in Austria, wanting to be more Austrian nationalist, while a similar article about Israel backed its national aims.

    The interesting thing there is that for much of liberal Jewish America, Netanyahu’s Israel has become anathema.

  125. @Wally

    Yeah, they oughta give back the Duranty Pulitzer.

    Friedrich Engels was no slouch when it came to communism. Still, read his evaluation of what would happen to Prussia-led Germany in an upcoming conflict. He was spot on. The fact that millions died under his system does not make him completely wrong or useless.

    More here:
    https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-friedrich-engels%E2%80%99-predictions-world-war-i-came-true-11208

  126. crimson2 says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    The Flynn effect is more about children learning how to take tests better than their parents and grandparents via the use of technology

    If this is true, then the IQ gap could be entirely caused by access to, or interest in, technology. This is not a win for the heredity argument.

    rather than an increase in actual intelligence, “g”.

    If you know that there has been no increase in “g,” then why don’t you use your evidence of this in hereditary intelligence arguments instead of IQ tests? The answer, of course, is that you have no idea if “g” is increasing or not.

    In short, if your main evidence of a racial gap in intelligence is IQ tests, then claiming that IQ tests aren’t doing a good job of measuring intelligence only weakens the case.

    Regardless, the black-white IQ gap isn’t shrinking.

    There is no question that the gap has shrunk. There is mixed evidence that the gap continues to narrow. The fact that it narrowed at all is pretty good evidence that environmental factors were at work. But no one knows what they are or if they are still causing part or all of the remaining gap.

  127. renfro says:

    I.Q. has nothing to do with being a good or bad person.
    So the I.Q. of races is meaningless in the end.
    Currently the ‘smart’ bad people are defeating the smart good people and ruining the world.

    But do keep on spouting crap inspired by articles here and the NYT by people of questionable intelligence obsessed with race and who’s smart and who’s not.

    That is exactly what the race and I.Q. obsessed ‘smart bad’ people want you to do.

  128. @Truth

    Thanks.

    In any event I think that it is true, most young black men are not suited to be Phds in Theoretical Math… and neither are most white men, Jews, or East Asians, but the nunber of blacks in lower.

    Most African-Americans do not have any interest in doing math equasions, (or coding, or looking throught a microscope) for 12 hours.

    So should university math departments make it a high priority to hire more blacks? Should people in mathematics think that the rarity of black mathematicians is some sort of injustice?

    • Replies: @Truth
  129. crimson2 says:
    @res

    This hardly sounds like a non-controversial area (point 1).

    Your quote says that most studies show that the racial gap has narrowed and the ones that do not tend to have flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Of course, people probably disagree, but I don’t think Derbyshire and etc. going to be arguing against Murray on this point.

    That is not a decisive argument against IQ having a genetic component.

    Nor did I say it was. In fact, IQ almost certainly has a genetic component. This doesn’t mean that the racial IQ gap has a genetic cause.

    What the Flynn effect and the narrowing gap show is that environmental factors affect IQ scores, and they do so on scales as large as the racial IQ gap itself. Moreover, the inability to pin down these large changes on any single cause suggests that environmental factors might be working in many unknown and unexpected ways.

    So when Derbyshire says:

    She notes for example that there are people who posit biological reasons for the disparity.

    And his evidence is…a factory analogy and a straw-man about blank slates? That’s it?

    And he accuses Harmon of being scientifically illiterate?

    • Replies: @res
  130. @By-tor

    oh I know By-tor. I know very well and can prove it.

    but I wont do it for you. or with you here and now. you are not very smart and I like you just the way you are. why should I seek to change you

    but you can change yourself. I don have any control over that and don’t know what you actually do with your time

    • Replies: @By-tor
  131. @attilathehen

    John Derbyshire refuses to deal with the racial reality that Asians contributed nothing to mathematics.

    Ever heard of Terry Tao?

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  132. @anonymous

    Then you have no clue about the nature of teaching in elementary and High school.

    You simply are making assumptions about what you don’t know. It is normal practice for teachers to teach in multiple disciplines. A gym instructor could be quite capable of teaching math despite that field not being their primary subject.

    How it works in the US

    https://www.sbcc.edu/counselingcenter/counselingquestions/pathways%20to%20teaching.pdf

    https://www.mometrix.com/academy/cset/multiple-subjects/

    It is highly recommended that instructors K-12 have the ability to teach more than one subject.

    https://www.teachaway.com/teach-uk

    https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/teacher-training-and-education/how-to-become-a-teacher

    Note the requirements, they are intended to cover a more than one subject if need be.

    While not the same certification process as in the US, an instructor can be qualified to teach a subject outside of their degree field. This is common practice, and our school systems in the US are built on that reality, especially in the midwest and rural areas where the one room school rooms were common or low income communities that could not afford the expense of hiring an instructor for every field. That diverse expectation is now now-unique to education in general.

  133. @Harbinger

    I suspect that you are filling in spaces with assumptions. That schoools have standardized academic content, and requirements does not deny the reality, that a set of basic skill sets would still be expected to teach a subject, even one in which the instructor is not degreed.

    How it works in the US

    https://www.sbcc.edu/counselingcenter/counselingquestions/pathways%20to%20teaching.pdf

    https://www.mometrix.com/academy/cset/multiple-subjects/

    It is highly recommended that instructors K-12 have the ability to teach more than one subject.

    https://www.teachaway.com/teach-uk

    https://www.prospects.ac.uk/jobs-and-work-experience/job-sectors/teacher-training-and-education/how-to-become-a-teacher

    Note the requirements, they are intended to covet a more than one subject if need be.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  134. XTeacher says:

    She was asked to teach maths, from doing PE.
    I asked her what her qualifications were and she had a GCSE in maths and that was it.

    My understanding of the General Certificate of Secondary Education is that it is an exam to determine if a prospective teacher has sufficient knowledge of a subject to teach it.

    I can’t speak for the UK, but I can speak for Texas. In Texas, if prospective teachers have passed the certification exam in the subject they intend to teach, and thus have become certified teachers in that given subject, they may take additional certification exams.

    For example, I initially became certified as a math teacher . While teaching math, I took the certification exam for teaching Spanish. I passed the exam, and thus became certified to teach Spanish. The test, which involved both written and oral components, took 2-3 hours. I had to speak for 15-20 minutes. As I had worked in Latin America, it should come as no surprise that I passed the certification exam in Spanish. As a teacher and substitute teacher, I also had plenty of practice using Spanish in the classroom- and in speaking with parents.

    I would also add that my use of the certification exam in Spanish was a good example of using personal knowledge instead of credentials to get certified. I had taken no Spanish courses after high school, but was fluent in Spanish.

    If that PE teacher passed the GSCE for math, which is the same one that prospective math teachers took, I would assume she had sufficient math knowledge for the job. I would also assume that the GSCE exams have sufficient rigor to insure that only those with sufficient knowledge of a subject would pass it. If the GSCE exams don’t have sufficient rigor, that could be a problem.

    As others have pointed out, it is not uncommon for high school teachers to be assigned courses outside their initial expertise. Some of these outside of expertise experiences are better than others. I had an Economics course in high school. My teacher, who was certified in history, told us that in his first year of teaching, he was assigned the Economics class. His major was in History, not in Economics. That first year, he told us, he was “a chapter ahead of my students. ” He was a very good teacher. As long as teachers take the extra time to get up to speed on the subject, the outside of expertise experience usually turns out well.

    On the other hand, I had an AP World History course from a middle-aged teacher who taught American History. While he certainly had been exposed to World History material- and more- in college, he hadn’t used the material for 20 years. Having a family and also not having the energy of someone in his twenties, he chose to not spend the evening hours needed to get back to speed on World History. As a result, his “lectures” were BS- just rambling conversations with more current events than World History. But his assignments were much more rigorous. That was the worst teacher experience I ever had as a student. Word got around. While the course had been in the school for a decade, it was cancelled the following year because too few students signed up for it. Lack of students had never been a problem before- I was one of 17 in that AP History class.

    Granted, PE to Math does seem a stretch. The rigor of the GSCE exam, I would hope, would screen out incompetents.

    • Replies: @res
  135. By-tor says:
    @ben sampson

    Okay ben the Ukrainian, then post some proof. Show us that these ‘black scientists’ exist outside of US TV commercials and Hollywood’s ethno-propaganda movies. Name some names besides Geo. Washington Carver.

  136. @advancedatheist

    “Nuclear power, especially, makes a big cognitive demand, and the U.S. won’t have enough smart people to maintain and operate nuclear power plants competently it when the population turns over demographically in another generation or two and we become a nation of brown dumbasses best suited for stoop labor”

    South Africa has two working nuclear power plants supplying 5 % of the electrical power. South Africa dismantled itz nuclear weapons when the Africans took control of the country. Ain’t democracy and demographics a bitch!

    I suppose the USSofA will have to follow a similar course when the demographics change. But that will be a while off unless Sub-Saharan Africa unloads about 100 million of itz excess population.

    So no more nuclear weapons for America in the not too distant future. China will be very happy. Chinese have a lot of patience and 50 or 100 years is not too long to wait. Or it can happen a lot sooner with Sub-Saharan immigration. Maybe the Chinese can pay off some of our traitorous politicians to enact new laws increasing immigration from Africa.

  137. Joe Wong says:
    @Colin Wright

    Derbyshire definitely is too harsh on NYT. NYT is a free market enterprise, its first obligation to give a return to its investors, to do that it has to produce something it can sell; the Americans wants something to show they are educated without effort, then NYT has to oblige that market demand in order to generate revenue that its investors mandated.

    Public funded schools and universities are the places to make the Americans do critical thinking or criticism, if the Americans cannot do critical thinking or criticism, blaming NYT is like closing the doors after the horses have left the barn. Derbyshire is committing Ad Hominem and Straw Man fallacies here, probably he believes the readers here are the as smart as NYT readers.

  138. res says:
    @crimson2

    Thanks for actually engaging. You are much better than most people on unz.com who post with your views.

    Your quote says that most studies show that the racial gap has narrowed and the ones that do not tend to have flaws that invalidate their conclusions.

    Keep in mind that I linked to a source in line with your views. If you asked the authors of those other studies I bet they would say the paper I linked has flaws. That’s what I call controversial. Which was my point.

    That is not a decisive argument against IQ having a genetic component.

    Nor did I say it was. In fact, IQ almost certainly has a genetic component. This doesn’t mean that the racial IQ gap has a genetic cause.

    True, but it is also not a decisive argument against the racial gap having a genetic component. And thanks for being at least somewhat reasonable about the genetic component of IQ.

    What the Flynn effect and the narrowing gap show is that environmental factors affect IQ scores, and they do so on scales as large as the racial IQ gap itself. Moreover, the inability to pin down these large changes on any single cause suggests that environmental factors might be working in many unknown and unexpected ways.

    Fair enough, but none of those provide a decisive argument against a large proportion of the racial gap having a genetic cause. I agree part of the gap is likely environmental. The question is: how much? I also think it clear that part of the racial gap is genetic. But again, how much? (BTW see my PS in the earlier comment for one answer to that)

    And why the redirect to Derbs point? I did not mention that and to my eyes it looks an attempt to introduce a strawman against me since you can’t respond effectively to what I said.

    Not a bad response, but I will note that you completely failed to engage with much of my comment. Notably the height analogy.

    I began my response with this quote from you: “I have yet to hear a good answer, and I have no expectations of seeing a good explanation here.”

    Did my response qualify? If not, why not?

    • Replies: @crimson2
  139. res says:
    @XTeacher

    You do understand that the GCSE is intended to be a secondary school level ability test and is not a teaching certification exam, right? (I would have thought so given that you linked the wiki, but your first paragraph indicates otherwise)

    Would Texas consider a decent score on the SAT-M a sufficient qualification to teach math?

  140. Realist says:
    @TomSchmidt

    The problem is not that there’s political bias. It’s that it has crept out of Op-ed and Editorial and become the ONLY thing that the paper does consistently anymore. I can think of two or three NYT articles from the past few years that did the job the press is supposed to do, attempting to hold public officials accountable. For the rest, it’s just constant political haranguing.

    Yes, it’s a sad state of affairs.

  141. Harbinger says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    No, I am most certainly not. She had a BASIC math SCHOOL qualification, which she will have attained at around 16. I’m not repeating myself but I will state they were her words not mine.

    Bottom line – here in the UK (England) the more black teachers, the dumber the pupil and dumbing down of education. Low IQ among the Negro peoples and those who aren’t stupid aren’t because of white genes in their ancestry. It’s a fact. All one has to do is look at inner cities for proof – high Negro, low white population results in the domain of gang culture (choice) and morons.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
    , @Anne Lid
  142. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Without reading his reply, Truth will counter that your female friend who is 6’1″ is probably a man. He thinks most women are men.

    • Replies: @Truth
  143. @Achmed E. Newman

    Here are the lyrics to the song Witchhunt by Rush. I imagine they are appropriately current year in exactly the opposite way their writer, Niel Peart, intended them to be:

    The night is black
    Without a moon
    The air is thick and still
    The vigilantes gather on
    The lonely torch lit hill

    Features distorted in the flickering light
    The faces are twisted and grotesque
    Silent and stern in the sweltering night
    The mob moves like demons possessed
    Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
    Confident their ways are best

    The righteous rise
    With burning eyes
    Of hatred and ill-will
    Madmen fed on fear and lies
    To beat and burn and kill

    They say there are strangers who threaten us
    In our immigrants and infidels
    They say there is strangeness too dangerous
    In our theaters and bookstore shelves
    That those who know what’s best for us
    Must rise and save us from ourselves

    Quick to judge
    Quick to anger
    Slow to understand
    Ignorance and prejudice
    And fear walk hand in hand…

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  144. allis says:

    Why the taboo against discussing intelligence and race? Suppose the “race realists” were proved wrong. It is not true that on average and especially at the extremes that Jewish Americans are more intelligent and African Americans are less intelligent than “whites.” Suppose further that this belief prevails and is acted upon. What changes, if any, would take place in our country?

    Or suppose the race realists are correct and that some identifiable groups are more or less intelligent than others? If this belief became common, what then?

    Western (Christian?) culture is odd in that it emphasizes the “equality” of all people, at least in the eyes of God. Thus we have a moral imperative to judge each person as an individual, not as a member of a group.

    Americans agree that individuals vary in traits (height, athleticism. intelligence, etc.), and we have little trouble agreeing that such traits are at least partially determined by the ancestors’ genes. We do not agree that identifiable groups (whether by race, religion, ethnicity, language, history, nationality, culture…) so vary. Indeed, some people deny the importance, or even the existence, of any such groups.

    Most of us, when dealing with others as individuals, judge them and act accordingly. If we don’t, we become vulnerable to scams, or worse.

    What if the race realists are wrong? What if they are right? The taboo against talking or even thinking about the question lets us ignore it. cui bono? or doesn’t?

    • Replies: @anonomy
  145. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    He’s the biggest censor here at Unz by a long shot.

  146. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Not just crime. Just about every form of entertainment available in the United States, music, dance, stage, cinema, TV, sports, comedy, and the advertising that drives those things, has been designed to promote, elevate and celebrate the American negro.

    Derbyshire has negro fatigue, as do I.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  147. @crimson2

    I notice that you didn’t mention the paper I cited and didn’t cite any of your own. Interesting.

    Besides, I don’t really give a shit if blacks are less intelligent than whites. They’re not my people. That’s all that matters. NE Asians appear to more intelligent than whites in special reasoning. Good for them. I still don’t want to live with them or be ruled by them.

    Anyway, sorry to break the news to you, but the the black-white achievement gap for 17-year-olds on the NAEP math test (you know, the one most associated with IQ) has remained steady since the early 1990s. This makes sense. I’d suspect that improvements in black environments and nutrition (yeah, it’s nature and nurture) in the 60s and 70s did help blacks, i.e. we closed the environment gap and left mostly genetics.

    Look, life is an IQ test, and blacks fail miserably – at least when asked to succeed in an environment designed for whites. (Other groups, NE Asians excel, btw.) I’m sure that you explain that away with white racism voodoo, which somehow doesn’t impact NE Asians and South Asians living in the U.S. Oh, right, slavery, Jim Crow, something, something.

    Face it. Blacks didn’t evolve in an environment that required planning. Jumping and humping worked best, so blacks became good at jumping and humping. Why you’re blaming white people for that, I don’t know.

  148. @Truth

    I believe that on average, different “races” have different skillsets. Of course as individuals this does not count.

    That’s only true if you’re dealing with only that individual and only for their lifetime. Otherwise, the average IQ, work ethic, level of violence, etc., for a race matters a lot. Regression to the mean.

    The decision to hire a guy to work at your shop is different from the decision to allow a guy and his family into your country for generations to come.

    Btw, blacks don’t like math and coding at a rate dramatically below whites and Asians because they’re not as good at it. You’re making it sound like they could do as well as whites and Asians if they wanted to. And that, my friend, is a lie, and lying isn’t nice.

    • Replies: @Truth
  149. @awry

    dis is more sensible dan wats his name by-tor wit’ his Wakanda references.

    what you want me to say apart from what I have gleaned from my own experience?

    I said I have experienced Black facility in math at all level all my life. it is not case of Black inability to do math. Black people have no inability with math. where the hell you guys get that from? if we have phobias with math it is an inculcated organized colonial thing imposed on us. but that can and will be shattered..is already.

    Black people can do match, do do math and any dam thing we have to do..or can be done by any others in life. Black do not suffer from inability at anything and at all levels. I don’t know why that is even an implication here in these pages..in the UNZ review in where there is supposed to dwell high intelligence among the fry commentators, on the words of our intellectual masters, like Derbyshire. ( hahahaha )

    why did not some of the people I know go on to become mathematicians?

    I don’t know. but it is not as if they they failed to become something professional in life. they did not and are just about completing successful bureaucratic careers as we speak. it could have been simple choices.

    the case of South Africa seems self evident to me! what has changed fundamentally in RSA..that a Black fifth column can now man the ramparts of the RSA capitalism, carrying through domination that still rapes all of Africa in fact..in the interest of the white western elite?

    after 400 years of close association with the white world Black people are for the most part white people now. that fact was hard for to accept, but I experienced social pain as a result of that, and that pain forced me to look at that development closely and to accept what I found.

    we have internalized a lot of the white people immersed in for so long and now behave, indeed live accordingly. there has been no Black cultural revolution, to cleanse the people of colonialism…our minds are still imprisoned in all the white colonialist bullshit and imposed limitations.

    the way the culture works still deepens Black mental imprisonment. there are a lot of Black stars now, currently, ten-fold more than there used to be..increasing too. but they all evince and entrench the Uncle Tom, the elitist white attitudes and way of life.

    whatever cultural change the state of things may bring does not affect the masses of ordinary Black people save in bad ways…set up the uncle Tom and auntie as hero and model. the roads upward are clogged by those want to be, by that path. the roads are narrow and even if we see major increase in Black stars there is no room up there for a billion of them

    if what the former racist South African leader said was true back in the day..”why teach the Black child math when he will have no opportunity to use it!” it is still true today.

    what is RSA doing to develop and expand itself as a nation driven by all of its people their views and outlook? nothing!

    RSA is still working for the capitalist and his global interest. the Black kids have no use for math, indeed for a whole lot they may learn because their nation is not asking them to do that for their nation.

    their nation is not catering for them, there are few Jobs in capitalist developments that have nothing or little to do with them. they get an education it must be tailored to the needs of the capitalist state..and so must they by attitude and comportment tailor themselves or no job for them. no job for them anyway for there are only so many to go around. they must be Uncles and Aunts employed or unemployed

    now if those people suddenly move and overturn the social situation toss western dominated capitalism and turn RSA for example, into a collective nationalist interest, we have a different story then, a real story..participation consistent with popular interest and education brought into line with the new nationalist goals and resultant needs of the people.

    I don’t know what the overall education developments would be in such a situation, and what part and demand there would be for mathematicians. but the people are capable: that is the bloody point. they are capable of whatever they want to do with what they have. the point is for them to get to that..to take their whole dam country and bend it to their needs.. not those of exploitative foreigner

    and so RSA.. so every other country in the same bind out of direct western colonialism and white domination for 400 years and counting.

    you awry, and by-tor are focused on and concerned with math for Black people. so is Derbyshire in that dam article and whatever the hell he talks about math. who the hell says they are and will be so concerned in any cultural dispensation that evolves by them, and for them?

    it may be important for the USA to produce math professionals. it appears to be of great status to you guys..yet how useful would it be for there to be tons of math professionals cluttering up the streets of the USA..anywhere for that matter?

    what would drive education and popular choice is the culture of the people, their nature/natural conditions, how they must make a living in their existential conditions…what and how they must develop to make themselves safe there.

    if the nation has oil they nee geologists, engineers, biologists, chemists and all related professionals. they would need a few mathematicians which they would easily produce.

    whatever they have they would have to work accordingly and adjust as they go.

    they key would be for them to be totally in charge of their nations… in it, about it, how it is run internally, and their foreign policy..all their own business having absolutely nutten to do with anybody here… and what you think about them.

    the key is to break the old exploitative, stultifying, foreign capitalist cultural paradigm that still strangles them socially..to revolutionize themselves culturally,: to get back on their own track and move for them, doing what they need to producing whatever life they need: in all areas of life one of which might be a focus on the development of advanced mathematics

    who the hell the, would care how many mathematicians you and By-tor think Black people must have to prove prowess at math..and not be considered an inferior people…must have for you to stop calling them Wakanada?

    would do Black people care anyway what you think? I don’t! and I don’t think any Black people anywhere care at all what you call them? if even they heard what you say of them in the pages of the UNZ!” that would be of little concern your both and your opinions would be inaccurate and racist as they are.

    and Harbinger..I see he wont answer my last 2 questions. if that Black woman with which he had that drink, really told him as much about her situation as he implies, she would have been foolish indeed. if he knew the school she worked at no doubt he would have gone and caused trouble for her, make her lose her job.

    that is why I hope that that is a fake story of his, a fabrication..and there was in fact no Black woman as silly as that to open up her life with this guys, whom she did not know well over a first time drink at bar.

    it is either there was no date, no drink..or that stuff happened in different circumstances, more, or most likely and he fabricated the bar/drink circumstances to hide what he really did. that’s right what he did. he more than likely worked in the situation with the woman, discovered what he did and used it against the woman..prolly cost her her job

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @By-tor
    , @Old Prude
  150. Truth says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Wouldn’t shock me to discover that Steve and Derb were unknowingly being used as safe release valves. Give race-aware whites some place to vent without actually doing anything.

    And they would have gotten away with it too; if it wasn’t for you meddling kids…

  151. Truth says:
    @Calvin X Hobbes

    No, elementary shcools should make it a high priority to find out at what kids are innately good.

    No. But you have to understand, people in admissions officers must earn their salaries also. It’s all moving dirt from one pile to another.

  152. Truth says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Lots of white guys play basketball. I don’t think that they are under any illusion that will be as good as Michael Jordan.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  153. “I believe that on average, different “races” have different skillsets. Of course as individuals this does not count.”

    what do environmental conditions have to do with it..you know like where you live and have for centuries and what you must do there to live, survive and thrive?

    the fear or phobia black people may have relative to match comes out of being colonized by whites who directed our education into corresponding dead ends that blunted Black competition in the culture

    I grew up in a Black dominated region and all the math was done by Black people..teachers, accountants by the shitload. the communications companies employed a lot of people in math.

    if there is a demand for a professional set..any professional set: AND COMPETITION IS FREE AND OPEN, AND ALL ARE AWARE OF THE NEED FOR THE SET AND THE REWARDS THEN WE MAY SEE THE TRUTH OF HIS DEBATE HERE

    in the USA there is no sexiness in being a mathematician..none at all. few people want to be one skillful at math or not

    • LOL: Wally
    • Replies: @By-tor
  154. @Harbinger

    I would love to the analysis that links an increase to black instructors to inner city dysfunctions.

    I would hazard a guess that the dysfunctions of current inner cities, pales in comparison to the inner city life when the those cities were comprised of whites. I take it you think Charles Dickens, critic on the “deplorable” state of the nation’s inner cities was a discussion about blacks.

    And the history of Great Britain whose inner cities have always had various gangs suggests that what is now is endemic to city life, regardless of whether said teachers are black or white.

    Changing the subject won’t change the content or context of the contentions you advance. That simply, a black instructor whose primary field of study might be P.E. , might very legitimately be capable of teaching math or any number of subjects. And while I won’t challenge your narratives, they do not in any manner change the fact, that a particular degree somehow limits said knowledge and skill to teach other subjects. Nor is it an indication that said teacher is teaching merely as some manner of AA agenda. Furthermore, even if said agenda was in place, still would not be an indication that said teacher is incapable of teaching multiple subjects — even if said instructor is disgruntled on the matter. An instructor teaching basic math need only the skills and knowledge to teach the same.

    You simply don’t have enough information even to your example to make the conclusions you are advancing.

    Your attempt to change the subject notwithstanding.

    • Replies: @Harbinger
  155. Harbinger says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Dickensian Britain cannot be compared to inner city, post, civil rights USA. How you could even contemplate the idea beggars belief. One word – Detroit, sums up blacks in the west in a nutshell. Once a bustling, white majority, city and now a crime ridden, black majority, ghetto.

  156. @Calvin X Hobbes

    He has to move back to China and help the Chinese with their abacus calculations. We do not need him in the West.

  157. @Harbinger

    Laughing. I was sure we were talking about Great Britain. The point is that your attempt to make your case by veering off into other areas of analysis without having the slightest links by data or by analysis to the singular example you proffer, just fails in light of history.

    In other words, what you claim as to blacks in the city has no historical uniqueness to the same. Unless, you intend to contend that

    Neither inner city dysfunction, ie. gang activity, ect. did not exist until the arrival of black teachers and black students to the inner cities.

    —————————

    To the extent that inner city Detroit contained the same dysfunctions as those of England’s inner cities before the arrival of blacks, i think one can safely contend that any inner city environments tend to provide environments where dysfunction and gangs are more numerous than other environments regardless of skin color.

    But I can certainly understand why you are intent on changing the subject.

  158. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Frescobaldis, Tobins Gianinnis

  159. anonomy says:
    @allis

    “Western (Christian?) culture is odd in that it emphasizes the “equality” of all people, at least in the eyes of God. Thus we have a moral imperative to judge each person as an individual, not as a member of a group.”

    Equality in that “we” are all judged individually. God is not a democracy, and your not equal to God.

  160. crimson2 says:
    @res

    Not a bad response, but I will note that you completely failed to engage with much of my comment. Notably the height analogy.

    It’s not a very useful analogy for a variety of reasons. First, height is extremely easy to measure. When you measure height, that’s what you are measuring. IQ tests do not measure intelligence, and so there’s lots of potential interference. Then you have confounding influences–for height nutrition seems to be the only one, perhaps exposure to toxins in the environment or stress could also be factors.. For intelligence you have nutrition, toxins, stress–but also education, cultural interest, parental education, socioeconomic status, and perhaps much, much more. It’s just a more complex process and there’s no reason to believe that it will behave the same as height.

    Yes, it is entirely possible that most of the observed gap is genetic. But when you say:

    I also think it clear that part of the racial gap is genetic

    I don’t see this as much more than a guess.

    Did my response qualify? If not, why not?

    Your response is reasonable, but you don’t seem to hold the view that the IQ gap can only be genetic in nature.

    The real issue is why any of this is important outside of the narrow political agenda of Unz Review readers. Clearly there are ways that black IQ could be improved by improving the educational environment. If IQ is such an important metric, that would be the place to start even if the gap were mostly genetic.

    • Replies: @res
  161. By-tor says:
    @ben sampson

    I am not concerned about blacks and math, because the semi-literate black sub-population where live is basically one large ward of the State, being utterly incapable of existing without Affirmative Action hiring and massive transfer payments of different varieties. I asked you to name the black scientists and, well, the black mathematicians you now also claim you know. You rant on about whites, but you are drawn to live a white-created modern world, not the Afro-hellscape of Tanzania where they cut out the sex organs and teeth of children in ooba-ooba rituals. Would you prefer to live in Liberia, where children’s blood was consumed before street fighting? I know, you are in the crisp and clean future non-white world of African Wakanda. Isn’t Wakanda located SE of Liberia but W of Tanzania? Or, is it Wauconda, IL?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wauconda,_Illinois

    Wauconda, founded by whites from New England in 1850, is currently 90% white? Oh no!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6648171/Ten-children-dead-Tanzania-teeth-genitals-cut-witchcraft-rituals.html

    https://www.ibtimes.co.in/witchcraft-brutal-killings-bodies-10-children-show-tanzania-teeth-pulled-put-genitals-cut-off-790957

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333465/Liberias-General-Butt-Naked-The-evil-man-world.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/23/liberia-war-crimes-chucky-taylor

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  162. By-tor says:
    @ben sampson

    Are you Jen the Ukropian Nazi maggot from the RT English forum? I have seen your style of ranting before.

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  163. @Truth

    TRUTH

    …Well many African-Americans are under no illusion that they will shoot threes like Larry Bird either!

  164. @Harbinger

    Th Detroit population comprises about 2.3% of the entire black population of the US. Your contention is that the Detroit criminal elements represents the entire population of the US.

    Because I like to be generous on these issues, I am going to calculate every incident of criminal activity as committed by a single black person, that is not accurate, but it is descriptive of what your suggestion means.

    In which case, 45,000 blacks committed crimes in Detroit. That represents 0.1047% of the entire black population. Again in a bid to be generous, let’s conclude that the entire US prison population is black, that’s roughly 1 million people, that we are going to assign as black. that is 2.4% of the black population.

    According to you 0.1047% of the whole has committed a crime and that is representative of the 42,999,999 are so engaged. Based on the numbers I disagree.

    Now you referenced gangs so let’s have a look, the estimated number of gangs in Detroit is 2500 in relation to the total Detroit population that represents 0.25% of the total black population. So as a descriptive it doesn’t even reflect the blacks of Detroit, much less obviously of the entire black population in the US.

  165. IQ was originally defined as a measure of YOUR ability to SOLVE PROBLEMS YOU HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
    Culturally and educationally-biased IQ tests are a corruption of the original idea.

    But this is the real deal…

    “Genius” Chimp Outsmarts Tube | National Geographic –

    And the problem the chimp solved in nothing compared to the problem the crow solved –

    Genius the crow solves amazingly difficult probems –

  166. ChrisZ says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks for the guidance, Achmed. You’re a good guy.

  167. Wally says:
    @Gringo

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/11/walter-e-williams/black-self-sabotage-2/
    “In 2016, in 13 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, not a single student scored proficient on the state’s mathematics exam. In six other high schools, only 1 percent tested proficient in math. In raw numbers, 3,804 Baltimore students took the state’s math test, and 14 tested proficient (http://tinyurl.com/y7f56kg2). Citywide, only 15 percent of Baltimore students passed the state’s English test.
    Of the nation’s 100 largest school systems, Baltimore schools rank third in spending per pupil.
    and:
    Baltimore’s black students receive diplomas that attest that they can function at a 12th-grade level when in fact they may not be able to do so at a seventh- or eighth-grade level. These students and their families have little reason to suspect that their diplomas are fraudulent. Thus, if they cannot land a good job, cannot pass a civil service exam, get poor grades in college and flunk out of college, they will attribute their plight to racism. After all, they have a high school diploma, just as a white person has a high school diploma. In their minds, the only explanation for being treated differently is racism.”

    • Replies: @europeasant
  168. @Harbinger

    Correction: Now you referenced gangs so let’s have a look, the estimated number of gangs in Detroit is 2500 in relation to the total Detroit population that represents 0.0058% of the total black population. So as a descriptive it doesn’t even reflect the blacks of Detroit, much less obviously of the entire black population in the US.

    There are an estimated 850,000 gang members in the US. Let’s say that all of them are black, again generosity here would be 2.o% of the entire population, that means, according that 42,987,000 unaffiliated blacks are in fact so associated.

    Again based on the numbers, I disagree

    I am being generous to your stead on the numbers.

  169. Biff says:

    One would think VDare could organize an intelligent web site, with a recognizable format. One would be wrong.

  170. @EliteCommInc.

    Y’know, I have no dog in this fight, I just hate to see an argument that’s badly made.

    Your response to endemic black crime, violence, gangs, indolence and dysfunction is to point to White crime and violence and gangs in Victorian London (which is true) and say: See? the Whites do it too! ( which again, is true.)

    What you forget is: Whites built London in the first place, which then, along the fringes and margins, developed crime and gangs. But Whites also built the Tower and the Houses of Parliament and St. Paul’s Cathedral and the Royal Albert Hall.

    Blacks fill one American city after another with crime, violence, and gangs. But I don’t recall them ever building Detroit to begin with. Or Baltimore. Or Camden (once the stomping grounds of Walt Whitman, if you can imagine).

    Hell, blacks didn’t even build Kinshasa.

  171. dimples says:
    @dearieme

    Isaac Newton lived in the pre-chemistry era. His alchemical studies, which were the only way to study chemistry at the time, were undoubtedly about trying to derive chemical laws via alchemical practices. This made him both a poor alchemist and a poor chemist, and that is why he is not still living among us today.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  172. @By-tor

    I am not from Africa

    I live in the white world because you brought me here. I had not been thinking of my Africa option until recently here.

    Africa is beginning to look real good to me..or back to my original Latin redoubt

    but when you curse Africa is that a case of myopia or some sort of sight/mental/emotional condition that prevents you from see that it is you who built the shit in the Black lands and categorically refuse to allow us to clean it up

    some white alternatives were counting american hegemonic coups recently…since ‘the age of independence’ hahahaha. they were into the fifties I think, from 1945

    I am not going to get into a locked and pitched battle with you you know. I wont waste that kind of time. when I attack whites I speak truth. it cant be attack what i say for that reason. if I hated whites like you hate Blacks then you would be able to attack me

    you man! if you wanted to prove your case about Black savagery, inferiority etc you should come fight with us against your own..help us to get you out of our way..and to stay out of our way period. then we can go fail, make cesspools all over our space, on our own, unassisted and in peace, and without your interference , coups and sanctions etc

    according to you..we do not need you..to make a mess. so get outta the way man. come fight with us
    hahahaha

  173. IQ says:

    If blacks and browns could count, they wouldn’t still be living in the shitholes that they now live in, from Africa to Central America, Mideast, South Asia, Southeast Asia, this in the year 2019. If it weren’t for the colonial whites, these people would still be living in their mud huts, caves and primitive stone structures. All their buildings and roads were built by whites a century ago, and they can’t even maintain them.

  174. IQ says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Plenty of black doctors out there like Dr. Dre.

  175. anon[382] • Disclaimer says:

    “In which case, 45,000 blacks committed crimes in Detroit. That represents 0.1047% of the entire black population. Again in a bid to be generous, let’s conclude that the entire US prison population is black, that’s roughly 1 million people, that we are going to assign as black. that is 2.4% of the black population.According to you 0.1047% of the whole has committed a crime and that is representative of the 42,999,999 are so engaged. Based on the numbers I disagree.”

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. You seem to be including several different numbers, without context, in order to inflate the validity of an argument. For instance, you keep bringing up “2.4%” of the black population, but that’s not relevant. Blacks are just around 13% of the US population but commit vastly disproportionate amounts of crime when compared to other demographics. Detroit is violent, but so is the black population at large. Perhaps blacks elsewhere have lower crime rates compared to their Detroit compatriots, but they also have much higher crime rates elsewhere when compared to virtually all other demographics, so your contention that Detroit doesn’t represent blacks as a whole (and your implicit assertion that Detroit is some kind of outlier) is not quite correct. The same for gang representation. In that light, Detroit can be used to glean useful information, depending upon what is being discussed.

  176. @By-tor

    not my ranting ..no. I rant here and at the Saker when I have the time. that’s it. do not mix me up with other white crazies. that’s not my kind and quality of crazy

    I was attracted to the UNZ by Unz himself. I ran into an article of his on the Jews and found his ability to be compelling. the guy has real ability..intellect. impressive..like some of the Black scholars I know

    then I ran into you guys here. you guys are real fun, totally representative of regular white pathology..racism and violence, pissing on god and nature, inability to live in harmony with anything and anyone..hate of, and violence towards women……

    pheeeeeeeew! I can go on and on. and when I have the time..a day or so off and I happen here I go on a bit.

    what stuns me is that you were once we. I argued and argued and argued against that argument. oh man I fought hard…am still fighting. white people could never have evolved out of Black. NEVER! there must be some mistake. me! like you guys…you guys evolved out of me? impossible! I won’t have it

    I never hit a woman in my life..would never dream of it. I don’t know no black man who did that. I know white men married to black women who did that all the time where I am from. I think it sopped some years ago however. current Black women would kill them..not the older generations though. they were afraid

    I would like you out of my hair man..period. and I know you would like to kill me..all of me, all of us nig nogs. but I hope to be able to prevent that an allow you o go along killing yourself..complete that before you can get back to me. you By to as white man are a killer and blind to your nature. you c an point to me as criminal but you cant see the abortion business that you have just legally expanded to include babies carried to term

    you did that because you want more mature body parts. its humans you know not pigs or dogs or cows and goats..humans. yet look at what you done..legalized. isn’t that the most horrific of developments. you guys are completely bat shit crazy. look at what you have turned the world into and you point your finger at me

    you turned me into a monster like you and blame me for it. interesting!

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
    , @Truth
  177. @Harbinger

    Detroit is all but abandoned by everyone but poor blacks who simply cannot afford to move. In Dickensian London, there were both wealthy and poor.

    Detroit is an industrial graveyard and near-ghost town. Middle-class whites left in the sixties and seventies. Lower middle class and poor whites found a way to leave. Only the poorest blacks remain.

    Obviously, if a city is NOTHING but poor blacks there will be more crime than a bustling population of all classes.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  178. @anon

    “2.3%”

    Impossible, Detroit is nearly a ghost town. Its remaining black population could not possibly comprise that degree of the North American black population.

  179. @ben sampson

    BEN

    Of course their all-black cesspools. We call this “white flight” when whites move and there is no longer a tax base to support unemployed blacks.

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  180. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Aha, but when whites LEAVE a city and blacks are left to their own resources and devices the city disintegrates because there is no money.

    Whites only have to move 40 miles away and a city turns into an internal world.

  181. @anon

    Blacks in Detroit have no trickle-down economy. In Chicago or NYC there are wealthy whites and Jews whose GDP trickles-down to the poor blacks. In Detroit, where everyone is poor and no virtually whites no remain and those that do are poor, blacks have no choice but to commit crimes that are violent.

    Drug dealing is not a violent crime and when people have jobs and money, like NYC or Chicago, blacks can have a job selling drugs.

    Prostitution is not a violent crime, and in a city with money many crack-addicted black women will depend upon an employed male customer base.

    But in Detroit where nobody has money and everyone is poor, crimes are invariably violent. There is no other way to obtain money.

    • Replies: @Medvedev
  182. @ben sampson

    So how successful is all-black Haiti after 200 years of independence with no evil white men around to oppress them ?

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  183. @ben sampson

    “…I never hit a woman in my life..would never dream of it. I don’t know no black man who did that…”

    So you know all black men did that ? (- x – = +)

  184. @Franklin Ryckaert

    how many times has Haiti been regime-changed by the USA/France since the they both killed Jean Jacques Dessalines

    twice the US removed Aristide some years ago. the USA will tolerate only fifth column in Haiti. watch what they do now. see of the USA is still powerful enough to make install another fifth column stooge

    you guys are playing games aren’t you. surely you know all of this. it is common open information I repeat here

    interesting

    • Replies: @By-tor
  185. El Dato says:
    @Buck Ransom

    “Alexander von Humboldt in Detroit”

    “The renowned scientist is taken to modern-day Detroit through a space-time accident and gets a nasty shock as he sees his ideas clash with reality.”

    An Alt-Right movie.

  186. anon[409] • Disclaimer says:

    “I wonder if scientific racists like John Derbyshire will ever respond to the actual critiques of the “hereditarian” argument of IQ.”

    I’ve seen several responses. What critiques are you making?

    “The main problem is that, since its inception as a metric, IQs have changed considerably.”

    That’s not a problem. They’ve been pretty close to the same over the last third of a century now plus a few points for the Flynn Effect, which now seems to be reversing itself in some parts of Europe. That’s exactly what you’d expect if a population had maxed out the environmental portion of cognitive ability; nutrition is no longer a limiting factor on cognitive development as it was in the past. One could similarly point out that human height has also changed considerably over the years, but you couldn’t then use that to imply height has no genetic component because it certainly does; height, like intelligence, has increased with rising nutrition (and other factors), but has slowed in its increase in recent years as the environmental component has been maxed out.

    “The Flynn effect shows that IQs have risen by about 3 points per decade. This isn’t controversial in any way. Also, not controversial: the black-white IQ gap has been shrinking. Charles Murray, for example, acknowledges this.”

    That’s not quite correct. The Black-White IQ gap is very large and has not greatly closed over the last thirty years. You imply that it will close to zero any day now just because it closed a trivial amount. In reality, it is so large that it will likely not close within the lifetime of anyone reading this comment. And the Flynn Effect is largely the result of nutrition and early childhood education. This is proved by IQs rising in developing countries like China concomitant with rising nutritional and educational standards while leveling off or declining in Western European countries that have been developed for longer.

    “Since we know the value of the Flynn effect, we can state that the average black American today has a slightly higher IQ than the average white American’s grandparents. This is, again, not controversial.”

    But entirely irrelevant. IQ, like human height, has both a genetic and an environmental component. Modern day Romans, for instance, are taller than their ancient ancestors, but they are also much shorter than many modern day Africans (and even other Europeans like the Dutch). What you are attempting to do here is obfuscate this fact by implying that, since some variable can change with time and circumstance, all variables (in this case the intelligence of different groups) will ultimately reach the same value. That is incorrect.

    “So what”s the problem? It seems like if IQ is all about heredity then the black people of today have genes slightly superior to Nana and PeePaw? Why is there any worry?”

    Again, a misunderstanding on your part. The concern rests with relative cognitive ability between members of modern day populations, not absolute values compared with some ancient, irrelevant one. The world is a very much more complicated place than it was in the past, and there is a direct correlation with intelligence and success (and GDP). The concern here is that a nation filled with relatively less intelligent people compared to their foreign competition can’t effectively compete in the complex, high-tech economy of the future; that is a valid concern. The success of China versus Africa would seem to suggest that relative intelligence is important. After all, China was as poor as Africa was at one point, but China’s conditions have rapidly improved because that population has a much higher genetic potential for cognitive achievement. Worse, you also misled. No one claims IQ is solely genetic, only that it has a substantial genetic component that is heritable. That is unquestionably true – unless, of course, you’re disagreeing with hundreds of the world’s best statisticians and geneticists. If so, we need to get the Nobel Prize Committee on line one, stat.

    *Study: Genes Play Big Role in Intelligence. First Genome-Wide Intelligence Study Confirms Association.*

    https://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20110809/genes-play-big-role-in-intelligence

    *In ‘Enormous Success,’ Scientists Tie 52 Genes to Human Intelligence*

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/science/52-genes-human-intelligence.html

    I could go on all day posting links.

    “This fact tends to tie racists like Derbyshire in knots. I have yet to hear a good answer, and I have no expectations of seeing a good explanation here.”

    What’s that quote about resorting to insults being the last resort … ?

    “If this is true, then the IQ gap could be entirely caused by access to, or interest in, technology. This is not a win for the heredity argument.”

    How does one define “interest in technology”? Seems like a nebulous grab bag that a guy like you could use to excuse anything. Besides, your assertion is flatly incorrect, as usual. A study conducted in Europe has shown IQ has fallen as access to technology such as smart phones has increased, so access to technology can’t be a huge limiting factor. Of course, there is both a genetic and an environmental component to IQ, but you seem to be suggesting that it is ALL environmental. Nonsense. No one, for instance, claims that skin color is solely genetic just because a European can get a tan and approach the same base levels of melanin as some Africans, so why are you suggesting that intelligence is solely environmental when many of our best statisticians have examined the subject and found that it is not? Oh, and there is the fact that we’ve actually found a decent number of SNPs correlated with educational attainment/intelligence, so there is direct genetic proof emerging; there’s more to come on that front.

    “In short, if your main evidence of a racial gap in intelligence is IQ tests…”

    Well, and success in virtually every aspect of life, too. I don’t think it would be a stretch to use marathon times as a good indicator of athletic stamina potential. Obviously, it has been proved that marathon winners usually have some genetics that advantage them in the sport, and that varies with both race and ethnicity. I don’t see why it should magically be any different for intelligence. IQ tests are measuring something that is at least partly innate.

    “There is no question that the gap has shrunk.”

    The gap is very large and has only trivially shrunk, if at all.

    “There is mixed evidence that the gap continues to narrow.”

    I like the way you used “mixed evidence”. You likely substituted “conflicting reports” with the tamer “mixed evidence” so as not to discredit yourself and bolster your point. In reality “mixed evidence” isn’t really evidence. And the gap is very large. At the supposed current rate of closure, it would take hundreds of years to close, assuming white IQs don’t continue to rise in tandem.

    “The fact that it narrowed at all is pretty good evidence that environmental factors were at work.”

    But that’s in no way evidence that IQ is completely environmental, as you tacitly assert; if it is partly genetic to any degree, then it is reasonable to ask whether the trait varies across groups as many other heritable traits do. I see no reason why it shouldn’t. In fact, there’s a plethora of statistical evidence gathered from multiple twin studies and results reported in hundreds of scientific papers across multiple continents with huge cumulative sample sizes that suggest cognitive ability is at least 50% genetic. If I water a daisy a little extra and it grows another inch, is it then reasonable to expect it to grow as tall as a Red Wood if I keep on watering it?

    “But no one knows what they are or if they are still causing part or all of the remaining gap.”

    We’ve directly tested the contributions of various environmental factors such as shared environment, early childhood education, second language acquisition, various IQ-lowering ailments, and nutritional access….the fact that there is still a difference at all when all of these factors have been normalized to a large degree across all groups strongly indicates a genetic component that is not susceptible to those environmental factors.

    The probability of finding some environmental factor that we’ve somehow overlooked all this time (and all across the country and between multiple racial groups – black, white, and Asian – and even multiple ethnic groups – A. Jew, gentile) that results in a complete closure of the IQ gap when normalized between groups is very small.

    “It’s not a very useful analogy for a variety of reasons. First, height is extremely easy to measure.”

    The fact that something is easy to measure makes it easy to quantify (or qualify), and thus useful. Human height has provably increased as nutrition has increased. Are you claiming height doesn’t also have a genetic component that sometimes varies between groups? You’d be wrong if you did. Likewise, there is no reason to believe that intelligence is magically different for some unexplained reason.

    “IQ tests do not measure intelligence, and so there’s lots of potential interference.”

    Not really. The point here is that IQ tests are valid over large sample sizes, the law of large numbers dictating that such interference will be smoothed out. Imagine a student claiming to his teacher that his low score on this week’s history exam isn’t a true measure of his knowledge (possible, but unlikely). And also irrelevant if we are examining the average test score of the entire class compared with other classes, which should remove inference from outlier students who really do have knowledge but somehow got a low score. Further, IQ tests do, in fact, measure cognitive ability of some sort if administered correctly.

    “Then you have confounding influences–for height nutrition seems to be the only one, perhaps exposure to toxins in the environment or stress could also be factors.. For intelligence you have nutrition, toxins, stress–but also education, cultural interest, parental education, socioeconomic status, and perhaps much, much more. It’s just a more complex process and there’s no reason to believe that it will behave the same as height.”

    You’re just running interference here by spitballing a list of different things. In reality, there is no reason to believe that it won’t behave the same as height with the knowledge that we have now. Further, statisticians aren’t morons. They can account for confounders.

    “Clearly there are ways that black IQ could be improved by improving the educational environment. If IQ is such an important metric, that would be the place to start even if the gap were mostly genetic.”

    What proposals are you making? The US has spent extraordinary sums of money on public education and various programs over the years with very little benefit. Absent a rigorous program to teach a second language from early childhood, that’s going to be difficult to achieve.

    • Replies: @Truth
  187. @jeff stryker

    again what are the games you guys play? its interesting because you cannot possibly be as stupid as the statements you make, questions asked, impressions created….

    and even shaped as a question I leave out the question mark because I don’t care youse guys ansah or not. hahahaha

    look here….this is what I would do had millions to invest in my own people.

    I am going to Detroit to ease ownership of all that cesspool land and decrepit housing at rock bottom prices into my own hands..and to buy the mayoralty. and to get tax exempt status for the people.

    I don’t know all the relative US laws at this time but in there I would quickly come to know all I needed to know, to play delicious games with the bureaucracy and the powers to get what I want…. to let those people free in the city, no rent for a while lots of free housing.

    I would collect Black money to expand the program..buy out the whole dam city for a song and lets see what the people can do..will do..if they can turn Detroit into a thriving metropolis. I bet they can. I bet all they need is a start and the government out of their hair, out of their way.

    and I bet as soon as the picture becomes clear, and the black drive and prosperity become apparent, the state and federal governments moves to shut it all down.

    and who will be leading that charge ??????
    Jeff Stryker
    Harbinger,
    By-Tor
    and all the other voices here who purport to believe that Black people are incompetent.

    I will bet that in 10 years time the Black people of Detroit, or of any god dam ghetto city will resurrect the dam place and drive it to prosperity… as long as the white people do not move to kill it all. they wont go to join up and make an ever bigger people prosperity they will move to kill the dam thing, drive out the nig nogs, drive the down again

    that is what has always happened..every dam time. white people killed Black Wall Street. and every time Black people built up any dam thing you shut it down or destroyed it..anywhere and everywhere in the friggin world

    we can let ourselves o in your employ, make your life successful. but you wont let us make our lives successful. you have stopped us across the board, and across the world for 400 years

    maybe you guys can fool fools but not those who actually know some real history.

    there is not a god dam african country America has bot screwed, installed puppet governments, every time the people mod to hell themselves America invadd/invades

    you smashed Somalia, the Sudan, Uganda after demonizing Amin. you finally got rid of Mugabe and installed that arsehole Nangawa. you killed Kwame Nkrum,ah and Patrice Lumumba..you smashed Gaddafi..a man who had made a great African country for his people.

    that is what you have been doing all the time..all over the planet. there is no Black success you left untouched, in place developing their nations. YOU SMASHED THEM ALL AND CONTINUE TO DO SO TO THIS DAY

    then you arseholes come here to Blame Black people for the failure you imposed on us, call us inferior and incapable

    we know the game you scorched earth skunts. the game has always been obvious. but we will prevail in time..a time sooner at hand than you realize. and I don’t want you to get smashed you..I want open competition in the world for all that’s going..open competition between all the people..open contact and competition between nations in normal activity..no war

    and in such open competition I want to see how the whites fare..yes all of you guys here and all the rest. open it man if you superior there is nutten to fear. Open it up!!!!

    but never fear. we will open it up in time.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
  188. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    No. The argument is not that blacks do it too. It’s that before blacks whites did it. And what that means is that the scenario is less about black skin, save what is constructed by whites and more about environments that that foster said behavior for a certain number of individuals. Because when blacks were on plantations and for nearly fifty years or more after they were freed, it was whites that comprised those high statistics regarding dysfunction.

    And those in London, will tell you your suggestion is categorically false, white criminality went well beyond the Victorian age and exists to this day.

    Whites in city after city after city have been the holders of criminal behavior and dysfunction — hence whether Italians, Irish, Poles, Germans . . . whites have not and are not immune to dysfunction. It has been the misfortune that that blacks cannot change their spots to intermarry, assimilate, network, change their name, hair style, language all of the strategies that whites might employ to circumvent the same that has been a serious barrier.

    The first complex language is born on the african continent and from which all complex language is rooted. As archeologists dig deeper and deeper beyond the colonial rhetoric, it’s become increasingly clear that the african civilizations were highly technical and complex and constructed civil societies all throughout the continent.

    No, I think it can be safely noted that the intense unstable environments of the northern habitats may not have fostered the technical developments, but whatever capacities rested in the northern human populations are the result of the africans that migrated north. However, that requires a conversation that is unnecessary to the questions addressed here. Which is simply this,

    It is not uncommon for instructors in primary education environments to have a degree in one area and still be qualified in areas that is not their specialty. And that any instructor so engaged need not be the product of some multicultural agenda and even if so, that would not by definition mean they are not qualified to teach in areas outside of their chosen degree.

  189. amendment:

    And those in London, will tell you your suggestion is categorically false, white criminality went well before and beyond the Victorian age and exists to this day.

    I think what we learn is that the intense unstable environments that plagued the migrating africans in the north did force a more creative strategies for survival and in turn served some purpose to the aesthestic. And those environments triggered, and fostered the creative intellects of the former africans, no question. But that capacity was born and existed among their ancestors prior to their departure north. It is unclear exactly what forces molded the claustrophobic city constructions of which height was a staple to incorporate more space for more people and also to the aesthetic artistics qualities of the same. Apparently, their african rooted peoples had no such inclinations, despite having their own elaborate structures. Though I have no idea where the location tower of Babel tower actually rests.

    Still,

    it has no bearing on the issue of whether or not a degreed individual could teach outside of their field with the pre-requisite skills to do so, which is the issue that was tied to skin color and quality, minus evidence that said association was made and remains unsupported, based on the discussion to which I responded. The record is clear that in the UK and the US and i suspect elsewhere that teachers can and do teach outside their degree field(s) and do so effectively – other factors not withstanding.

  190. Hibernian says:
    @obwandiyag

    Strawman and non sequitur.

  191. Hibernian says:
    @Hasdrubal Plenum-Smith

    It’s called “Communications.”

  192. Hibernian says:
    @Anon

    Back in the day, College Board/ETS had achievement tests, in a few subjects, that measured specific knowledge. Few of us took them because the colleges generally didn’t use them. SAT, LSAT, GMAT, ASVAB and GRE, all of which I’ve taken, are all somewhat specialized IQ tests with perhaps a small specific knowledge component. Some if not all of them are or at least were accepted by Mensa.

    • Replies: @res
  193. Hibernian says:
    @dimples

    So he’d have lived forever (here on this earth) if he hadn’t poisoned himself?

  194. Truth says:
    @anon

    Now i admittedly didn’t read the whole post, but are you saying you agree that Quantavious was probably smarter than your grandparents?

    • Replies: @res
  195. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Thanks, Mike. I wonder when the lyrics of Red Barchetta will be reality:

  196. @Ilyana_Rozumova

    Give the guy a break, Miss Rozumova. Does the invention/discovery of Calculus ring a bell? (Sure he had some help from little Liepnitz.). How about his involvment in convection heat transfer – Newton’s Law of Cooling.

    Isaac Newton was a towering genius of both math and science. That’s Double-A Isaac Newton – I don’t know as much about the guy you’re writing about, Single-A Isac Newton, granted.

    ;-}

  197. @Wally

    The results you cite are nearly the same in my very large city where blacks comprise one third of the population. I’m sure the results are the same all across America and the world.

    IMHO IQ is 75% nature and 25% nurture. If a child is left locked up in a closet and fed sugar soda and candy bars his IQ will never reach full potential. His height also will never reach full potential. In America nutrition is not a problem and most children are overfed. Even sugar breakfast food is fortified. Africans in America have been here for many generations and are the most well fed group in the world. There’s a fried chicken store on almost every corner. Of course that has contributed to their obesity. Yes here they are overfed.

    In America blacks have reached their full IQ potential. The results are dismal.

    Let’s get rid of affirmative action.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
  198. @europeasant

    LET’S GET RID OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION

    And do what?

    Have more pissed-off unemployed destitute blacks?

    • Replies: @Truth
    , @Wally
  199. res says:
    @crimson2

    It’s not a very useful analogy for a variety of reasons.

    Let’s discuss those reasons.

    First, height is extremely easy to measure. When you measure height, that’s what you are measuring. IQ tests do not measure intelligence, and so there’s lots of potential interference.

    An excellent point with the qualification that “IQ tests do not measure intelligence” is more like “are unable to measure intelligence as easily and precisely as a ruler measures height .” And I believe this relative difficulty of measuring IQ (and the small difference in heritability) is why the GWAS do not have enough power to “solve” IQ yet but have basically solved the additive SNP component of height. But I think a century of psychometrics has done a decent job of producing IQ tests which measure intelligence and plenty of evidence in support of that position.

    Then you have confounding influences–for height nutrition seems to be the only one, perhaps exposure to toxins in the environment or stress could also be factors.. For intelligence you have nutrition, toxins, stress–but also education, cultural interest, parental education, socioeconomic status, and perhaps much, much more.

    Another good point. But based on the best data we have the heritabilities of height, IQ, and the IQ gap are all of the order 0.8. Which means controllable environment is fighting it out with uncontrollable elements of environment, error, etc. to explain that remaining 20% portion of outcomes.

    So the additional factors you describe appear to be a smaller portion of the effect than genetics. Your additional factors complicate and limit the analogy, but by no means invalidate it.

    It’s just a more complex process and there’s no reason to believe that it will behave the same as height.

    Height and IQ appear to have similar heritabilities and degrees of polygenecity. They will not behave exactly the same, but I think the analogy is quite sound as an approximation. I welcome better ideas, but height is the best researched polygenetic trait at present so that is what I use. It also happens to be much less controversial than IQ ; ) Which is useful when discussing how height polygenetic scores created for Europeans don’t work well for Africans. The usual effect (e.g. for Pygmy height) seems to be an underestimate of differences though (probably through different linkage disequilibrium and additional causal loci in the more diverse African population).

    Again, a much better (actually making valid points without a mass of bogus rhetoric and ad hominems) response than I usually get here. Thank you.

    I also think it clear that part of the racial gap is genetic

    I don’t see this as much more than a guess.

    It is science based on the best data we have (which is far from as good as I would like given the third rail nature of this topic). Too long to review here, but the Jensen and Rushton piece I mentioned above is a good start. If you are interested in a serious discussion of that (and other evidence and research) we can have it.

    Your response is reasonable, but you don’t seem to hold the view that the IQ gap can only be genetic in nature.

    Right. I attempt to understand reality. Do you hold the view that the IQ gap is only environmental in nature? I think that is every bit as unreasonable as the opposite. And in my experience there are many who believe that and very few who truly believe the IQ gap is entirely genetic. The many including almost the entirety of the US media, academia, and political class. But remember, the only attempt to quantify the genetic component I have seen done with any rigor is the Jensen and Rushton figure of 0.8 heritability in my PS above. That is the same heritability as for height. Worth thinking about. My personal estimate at the moment is 50/50 until more evidence comes in.

    The real issue is why any of this is important outside of the narrow political agenda of Unz Review readers. Clearly there are ways that black IQ could be improved by improving the educational environment. If IQ is such an important metric, that would be the place to start even if the gap were mostly genetic.

    Because it turns disparate impact (any difference in representation is caused by white racism) into the blood libel it truly is. The additional problem is that IMHO some of the best ways to help blacks environmentally are to improve black culture (e.g. being smart is acting white) and family structure. Which of course makes me “racis!” So we spend all of our rhetoric and effort removing the last ppb of lead from the cities and trying to improve schools without improving the students. Which is doomed to failure as has been demonstrated over and over for the last fifty years.

    In order to solve a problem effectively it is important to understand it first.

    • Replies: @crimson2
  200. res says:
    @Hibernian

    For anyone interested in a list of tests and scores which qualify for Mensa (IQ > about 130) see
    https://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/qualifying-test-scores/

  201. res says:
    @Truth

    Leave it to Truth to respond to a 1800 word thoughtful comment with a pithy throwaway.

    Remember averages don’t necessarily say much about individuals.

    • Replies: @Truth
  202. George says:

    For those not of a certain age ‘Gray Lady Down’ was one of a number of 70s disaster movies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Lady_Down

    See Also what happened to HL Mencken’s American Mercury. Once publications become irrelevant they die a sad death.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_American_Mercury#Antisemitic_and_racist_takeover

    “It used to be a very good newspaper.” It used to be a subscriber-supported newspaper, like most at the time. I remember paying $1 or more for a newspaper every day. Today the Times is advertiser supported. Like Menchen’s publication, it’s readers died and were not replaced. For example, based on past performance, Far Rockaway High School is probably the pound for pound noble prize champ, including but not limited to Richard Feynman, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_Rockaway_High_School#Notable_alumni . Those were the days.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  203. Truth says:
    @ben sampson

    Totally representative of regular white pathology..racism and violence, pissing on god and nature, inability to live in harmony with anything and anyone..hate of, and violence towards women……

    …Then we can start on your bad qualities…

  204. Truth says:
    @jeff stryker

    These type of people are not assisted by affirmative action. People who are going to have some degree of success are assisted by affirmative action. “Pissed of unemployed destitute blacks” generally do not have a skill or a degree to take advantage of affirmative action.

    Affirmative action was a Government program directed to stop 60’s and 70’s era black college graduates from starting competing businesses, and keep them feeling lucky to generate income for “Duh Man.”

  205. Truth says:
    @res

    The man was talking science, but I don’t come to a chatboard to read books. I have books for that.

    So was Quantavious “allegedly” smarter than your grandparents?

    • Replies: @res
  206. res says:
    @Truth

    The man was talking science, but I don’t come to a chatboard to read books. I have books for that.

    Some of us look for aspects of this chatboard that can be even more informative than books. As well as just having it be a playful diversion. I enjoy both aspects. And you at least tend to be more humorous than obnoxious (and I hope you realize my previous comment was meant in the same fashion).

    So was Quantavious “allegedly” smarter than your grandparents?

    Unlikely. IQ is heritable you know. The Flynn effect has not been that large. And I think at least one of my grandparents was smarter than me.

    • Replies: @Truth
  207. @MikeatMikedotMike

    Derbyshire’s Chinese wife and daughter voted for Obummer. He may be in for a surprise, as in guess who’s coming to dinner regarding his daughter.

  208. By-tor says:
    @ben sampson

    I want you to repeat the names of the black scientists and mathematicians you know from your college studies, Jen. List them on this thread. If you do not, then you are just the same exact fraud you were, and likely still are, on RT English.

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  209. anarchyst says:
    @George

    Waler Duranty and other communists worked for the “jew york times”…and claimed there was no forced, mass starvation in the Ukraine while extolling the “wonders” of communism. As far as I’m concerned, the “jew york times” has NEVER been honest…

  210. Agent76 says:

    Nov 21, 2013 Extending Childhood, by John Taylor Gatto

    Part seven in a series of short videos based on John Taylor Gatto’s book, The Underground History of American Education.

  211. Truth says:
    @res

    Well from the way I understand the F.E., he/she’d have to be 30 points smarter than you to be even. Am I understanding properly?

    • Replies: @res
  212. res says:
    @Truth

    I’m not quite sure I follow what you mean, but I was thinking along the line of 15 points for the F.E. (probably less given timeframes involved) and 15 points for the W/B average difference. I would interpret that as meaning Q would have to be within 15 FE points + 15 points of fuzz of me to give a reasonable chance. Then assuming Q is near the black average he’s not even close. You would have a better shot.

    One note about the F.E. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect#Rise_in_IQ

    Some studies have found the gains of the Flynn effect to be particularly concentrated at the lower end of the distribution. Teasdale and Owen (1989), for example, found the effect primarily reduced the number of low-end scores, resulting in an increased number of moderately high scores, with no increase in very high scores.[15] In another study, two large samples of Spanish children were assessed with a 30-year gap. Comparison of the IQ distributions indicated that the mean IQ scores on the test had increased by 9.7 points (the Flynn effect), the gains were concentrated in the lower half of the distribution and negligible in the top half, and the gains gradually decreased as the IQ of the individuals increased.[16] Some studies have found a reverse Flynn effect with declining scores for those with high IQ.[17][13]

    Which indicates my grandparents and I might not be that different even given the F.E. Making Q’s chances even worse than my initial estimate.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
    , @Truth
  213. @TomSchmidt

    If you clear your browsing history you can read more. The comments on stories, while preponderantly left-liberal, as one would expect, can take a variety of perspectives.

  214. @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Elite Commie is a blank slating boomer-con. Arguing with him is like arguing with Dodo bird that doesn’t realize he’s extinct yet.

  215. Old Prude says:
    @ben sampson

    Derb collects the oddest assortment of bitchy commenters…If you don’t like Derb why read his stuff? Unless you enjoy bitching. A lot of women are like that…

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    , @ben sampson
  216. @res

    This might indicate that the Flynn Effect does not really mean an “increase” of intelligence, but is the manifestation of the real potential of the working class due to improving outer circumstances in terms of nutrition, hygiene, healthcare and education. With the improving situation in Africa, India and other parts of the Third World, we might expect a “Flynn Effect” there too. If IQ is 80% genetic and 20% environmental, then improvements in the environment can indeed raise the IQ, but only to a certain genetically determined maximum. After such environmental improvements, the “Flynn Effect” will stop.

    • Replies: @res
    , @Anonymous
  217. res says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    I basically agree with you, but think learned test-style thinking plays some role as well. Probably also most effective for lower IQs.

    If IQ is 80% genetic and 20% environmental

    I sometimes talk like this, but it is a dangerous way to think about it. A heritability of 0.8 means that 80% of the within population variance is from genetics. But generally within population environmental variation is smaller than between population (or between generation) environmental variation.

    So even if IQ heritability in western populations is ~0.8 there may be much larger IQ gains than that would seem to indicate possible in Africa because the environmental differences between the west and Africa are much larger than between groups in the west. I am not sure how much of those gains is left vs. already achieved over the past decades though. It seems that the Flynn effect (and corresponding height trend) have largely stopped for most of the world outside Africa.

    One thing an accurate assessment of genetic potential would allow is to estimate how much environmental improvement might be possible for a given population.

  218. @By-tor

    you putting words in my mouth…..
    I am done with this thread..since my last post.
    I am about to go to bed and passing by when I saw this and the others
    you guys are fun but I long ran out time and yuks for the company here

  219. Truth says:
    @res

    15 points per generation.

    • Replies: @res
  220. Miro23 says:
    @Calvin X Hobbes

    If you take Utu’s figures, then there are some more generalized results (race/continent).

    Utu’s figures:

    Purdue Math Dept. Faculty Count

    33 China
    27 American (White)
    6 Germany
    3 American (Jewish)
    3 South Asia
    3 Romania
    3 S. America/Spain
    2 American (Black)
    2 Hungary
    2 Italy
    1 France
    1 Poland
    1 Bulgaria
    1 Armenia
    1 Iran
    1 Korea
    1 Japan

    Faculty Count by Race/Continent

    46 European (US white 27 + W. Europe 9 + E. Europe 7 + S. America 3)
    35 N.E. Asia (China 33 + Korea 1 + Japan 1)
    3 S. Asia (India/Pakistan)
    3 Jewish
    2 African
    2 W. Asia (Armenia 1 + Iran 1)

    This seems like a fair proxy for high level mental ability although some distortions would presumably be:

    – Chinese preference for seeking STEM education in the US inflates their figure.
    – Russian policy of valuing STEM locally (and avoiding the US) reduces the European figure.
    – Jewish special opportunities in US finance/banking reduces their count.

    Having said this, Africans are ahead in physical activities, sports, and popular music and behind in violence and social dysfunction.

    Europeans are high on mental ability but hopeless on ethnic unity.

    Asians are high on mental ability (and ethnic unity) but come bottom on male physical attractiveness to women of all races.

    Native S. Americans (non-European) don’t seem to figure anywhere.

  221. @Old Prude

    Old Prude, you are the perfect example of a bitchy old lady.

    You cannot deal with facts. You cannot deal with the fact that I point out Derbyshire’s hypocrisy and degeneracy. Again, it is because you are an Asian poontanger.

    When I first started reading Derbyshire, I just assumed that he was married to some kind of a Western woman. His writings about the West were good. Then I found out about his Chinese wife and family. That changed everything. He wrote an article that Asians are smarter than whites. They are not. https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/of-course-harvard-discriminates-against-asians/

    As I have consistently stated, when a gentile Western male gets infected with Asian yellow fever, it turns into yellow fever AIDs and he tries to infect the West with his deadly disease.

    Several commentators have thanked me for outing Derbyshire.

    You are the problem.

  222. Anonymous[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    If IQ is 80% genetic and 20% environmental, then improvements in the environment can indeed raise the IQ, but only to a certain genetically determined maximum.

    I’ve yet to see a single “environmental” programme on the planet that can reliably increase real IQ even by five points. And it’s not for the lack of trying since untold billions could be made in the process.

    We’re not using only 80% of our brains until someone “unlocks” the rest.

    • Replies: @res
  223. Avalanche says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “Talk of civil war and fighting on the street is childish. We need to build.”

    Oh Pollyanna, Pollyanna! “We need to build”?!

    On what POSSIBLE future world in what will once have been America do you feel (cause it sure ain’t thinkin’!!) that our conquerers and destroyers will ALLOW us to maintain any sort of enclave or reservation FOR OURSELVES!? Have not the negros already declared and displayed many times over, that they will follow us to the very ENDS of the planet to live near — and OFF –us and our building?!

    “We need our own business associations, community groups, schools (or, at least, programs for our children to learn about their heritage), political organizations, even ethnic churches, etc.”

    We’ve had these and built these and they’ve been invaded and destroyed; and we’ve moved and started it all over again — and been invaded and destroyed! What business association FOR WHITES is still allowed to exist ANYwhere on this planet?! Community group? Schools — hell they bus the damned invaders in, if they don’t live close enough! A WHITE ethnic church?! Do you think for one second ANY hierarchy would allow that to happen?! White Congressional Caucus? La WHITE Raza?! National Association for the Advancement of the Few Whites Left?!

    No, it will be war. Blood and fire and death. And ONLY if we manage to drive them off and out — and KEEP them off and out — will we have any of “our own business associations, community groups, schools (or, at least, programs for our children to learn about their heritage), political organizations, even ethnic churches, etc.” Wake up! MEET your enemies!

    • Agree: anarchyst
  224. res says:
    @Truth

    15 points per generation.

    Thanks for clarifying.

    Unlikely the effect is that large IMO. Also see my points about it mostly being concentrated at the lower end.

    Then there is the matter of whether or not that would be enough to catch Q up. ; )

  225. res says:
    @Anonymous

    I’ve yet to see a single “environmental” programme on the planet that can reliably increase real IQ even by five points. And it’s not for the lack of trying since untold billions could be made in the process.

    Some important points.
    – Most studies of that have been done on recent western populations where the Flynn effect has largely topped out. Trying the same in Africa might have different results.
    – Getting people to make purposeful changes is hard. The magnitude of inter-generational changes is likely to be much larger than anything we could do intentionally. Even in Africa. Mandatory education to say eighth grade might come close in places where it is not already present. Same with preventing a major nutritional deficiency prevalent across the population.

    I agree that once a population is at a certain baseline (e.g. basic education, no major nutritional deficiencies like iodine, etc.) it is unlikely intervention will make much difference. And in my opinion the US falls into that category right now.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  226. J1234 says:

    I knew a black high school math teacher from Mississippi. Except he didn’t call it “math” he called it “maff.” Seriously. He also told me that, while in college, he had raped his 13 year old cousin. Seriously.

    He taught in south Omaha at Bryan High School. His name was John something, but I can’t remember his last name (this was close to 40 years ago.)

  227. Anonymous[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    Nutrition is not the problem – outside outright poisoning or catastrophic, organ-failing, levels of infant malnutrition. Most African countries are not starving and the levels of non-starvation do not correlate with average IQs across the continent. Also, both Koreas seem to be scoring the same, 106-point, average. Do we have any reliable examples where people permanently lost their IQ through starving? Do we have a scientifically recognised IQ-boosting diet? No?

    The education angle is also flimsy since a good IQ test – especially in terms of international comparisons – must eliminate cultural and educational influences. Again: North and South Korea score the same.

  228. res says:

    Also, both Koreas seem to be scoring the same, 106-point, average.

    There is some disagreement about that. David Becker’s database is the best source I know for country IQs: https://www.researchgate.net/project/Worlds-IQ

    Here is an excerpt from the FAV sheet in his spreadsheet (only columns with entries for both):

    Country QNW+SAS+GEO L&V02+GEO L&V12+GEO IQ(L&V12)-NIQ R
    PRK Korea, North 98.82 104.00 104.60 5.78 99.89
    KOR Korea, South 102.35 106.00 104.60 2.25 104.96

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  229. Wally says:
    @jeff stryker

    said:
    “Have more pissed-off unemployed destitute blacks?”

    Which would not occur if they got off their lazy butts.

    If their behavior, which makes them “unemployed & destitute” in the first place, is no longer enabled, they will change it.

    Thanks.

  230. Anonymous[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    There is some disagreement about that.

    Sure, my sources were different but even yours is very close at 3.5 points. I’ll examine the document when I get the chance (to see if they used the same/similar testing methodologies) but the nominal gap is minuscule when we consider that the two Koreas are very different in terms of both hunger and education. As far as I know, mass-starvations in NK are long over but they were harsh and the IQ consequences are either tiny or non-existent.

    Do you agree/disagree with my other points?

    • Replies: @res
  231. res says:
    @Anonymous

    Do you agree/disagree with my other points?

    I think you are overstating them a bit, but not enough to be worth arguing about. Especially in the absence of better data than we have for much of this (e.g. conditions and IQs in Africa). I think we are roughly on the same page. Thanks for an interesting conversation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  232. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @Gringo

    You’re (you’re White, I can tell) discriminating against me (I’m Black) with all those percentages (0.7 and the like) and such.

    That’s Whitey Talk. I ignore it. And I know your’e trying to fool me.

  233. Of course when all else fails, make it personal.

    The moniker I use has no political political affiliation.

    The blank slate theory advanced most notably but John Locke does not ignore the biological foundation. What it says is that understanding of the world at large is determined by experience after birth.

    It is not blank slate as you and other explain it for the purposes of advancing a “straw argument”.

  234. Anonymous[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    Likewise.

  235. crimson2 says:
    @res

    Do you hold the view that the IQ gap is only environmental in nature? I think that is every bit as unreasonable as the opposite.

    I’m agnostic on it. It’s certainly possible. It’s possible that environment only covers half the gap. This will blow your mind–but it’s possible that black people are genetically smarter than whites and that environment depresses IQ by MORE than the observed gap. That’s unlikely, but ti simply cannot be ruled out given all the uncertainties. (Heck, it’s also possible that the true gap is actually wider than the observed gap.)

    But based on the best data we have the heritabilities of height, IQ, and the IQ gap are all of the order 0.8. Which means controllable environment is fighting it out with uncontrollable elements of environment, error, etc. to explain that remaining 20% portion of outcomes.

    You are misusing percentages here. If height is 80% heritable, but both parent and child suffer from the same environmental effects, then this doesn’t tell us anything about what might account for any differences from the average population. Hereditarians constantly make this mistake.

    Because it turns disparate impact (any difference in representation is caused by white racism) into the blood libel it truly is.

    You’re letting your ideology distort reality here. White racism isn’t a “blood libel”–it was the de facto law of the land for centuries. To claim that all the deep racial wounds have healed and everything is even is not the least bit realistic. Go to any 90% black school and compare it to a 90% white school. Take a look at the resources, the infrastructure. Or look at the objective measures of discrimination. Here’s one about racial bias in granting bail:

    https://www.princeton.edu/~wdobbie/files/racialbias.pdf

    (Note that in a lot of these cases, racial animus isn’t blamed for the biased outcome, but rather racial stereotyping. In this specific example, black judges were just as likely as white judges to exhibit the bias. How could this result be described as “anti-white”?)

    There are many other studies in employment, policing, mental health evaluation, cardiac treatments, etc.

    Which is doomed to failure as has been demonstrated over and over for the last fifty years.

    Failure? At the very least black students have made the same IQ gains as white students. At best they’ve closed the gap significantly. All this despite poorer educational resources, broken family lives and a huge bump in violence.

    • Replies: @res
  236. res says:
    @crimson2

    Nice. A browser crash just ate a long response I was composing to you. We’ll see if I get motivated to reproduce it later, but here is the TLDR version.

    Let’s talk after the black community starts taking responsibility for black crime, black family status issues, black anti-educational behavior (both things like “being smart is acting white” and making classrooms uninhabitable), etc.

    At least be willing to acknowledge that as a group blacks have agency and should take some responsibility for their own actions and the resulting outcomes. If whites are so racist for no reason then why do Asians not seem to have these problems?

    • Agree: By-tor
  237. @res

    Since black people sit on juries every day and send black people to jail, and on occasion even the chair —

    It seems that black people are more than willing to take responsibility for their communities. just like whites in communities in which criminal activity is higher than — what might be considered “normal.”

    As for education you might want to do your homework on black college attendance in comparison to whites.
    ————-

    History might well be an aide as well, and that history indicates that when black communities requested police assistance, they were routinely denied, hence, creating the kind of segregated attitudes that black communities might have — one of animus against the police — across the country. I was continually disappointed in my search to defend the police in my youth, to discover a very shoddy history concerning black populations.

    Ignorance and myopia are bliss.

    • Replies: @res
  238. @res

    ” If whites are so racist for no reason then why do Asians not seem to have these problems?”

    Hmmmmm . . . let me see . . . hard question . . . hmmmmmmmmmmm, uhhhh oh,

    Because the discrimination against blacks by whites and yellows has been and remains predicated on their being a subspecies of human beings, indicated by the color of their skin. Asians are so intelligent they actually it whites when they told asians blacks had tails.

    But that was a really really really really hard question. Though I have no doubt that my “obsolescence” will render the fact obsolete by those whose sole linear grasp of something as simple as EliteCommInc., gets rendered as some false/incorrect political trope.

    • Replies: @jeff stryker
    , @res
  239. @EliteCommInc.

    Yellow racism?

    You mean Koreans in the LA ghetto?

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  240. @jeff stryker

    I think I will let you do some homework as to why I make the reference concerning blacks and Asians. But US citizens of Korean lineage did not arrive at their beliefs about blacks from their associations with blacks.

    And I think the politics is obvious.

    • Replies: @By-tor
  241. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    As for education you might want to do your homework on black college attendance in comparison to whites.

    What do you mean? Black educational attainment is less than that of non-Hispanic whites across the board. For statistics see Table 1 in https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2016/demo/p20-578.pdf
    Though I was surprised by how much better than Hispanics blacks do.

    If you want to have a serious conversation about black college attendance then be more explicit and back it up with data.

    Since black people sit on juries every day and send black people to jail, and on occasion even the chair —
    It seems that black people are more than willing to take responsibility for their communities.

    Good for them. I was thinking more about examples like all of the liars who came out of the woodwork during the Michael Brown case. And the media (not to mention people like you) which so persistently blames all black shortcomings on YT. With nary a peep about the state of black families (e.g. marriage and single motherhood rates). Much less any discussion that committing crimes is an individual choice. Not something YT imposes from the outside.

    Look, look at the results. If you think blacks are doing a good job of taking responsibility for their part in the obscene black crime rate and the travesty of inner city classroom conditions then I think you are so far divorced from reality that it is not useful to try to discuss this with you.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  242. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Because the discrimination against blacks by whites and yellows has been and remains predicated on their being a subspecies of human beings, indicated by the color of their skin.

    It must be comforting to believe you know exactly why other people do the things they do.

    At least consider the possibility that much of the response to blacks is based on the bad behavior of so much of their group. And I feel sorry for the good people who get caught up in that. Now if only those good people would help solve the problem rather than just blaming YT.

  243. @res

    I have presented various data sets numerous times here’s one.

    https://blackdemographics.com/education-2/education/

    http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_four-year_collegedegrees.html

    It will take some time to redress the segregated issue, in my view, but your argument is just nonsense in light of reality.

    Your like the child who claims someone with a head start is something more because they tripped the runner next to them. It’s worse than that, but it makes the point. What the record demonstrates is that blacks unimpeded with the same ambitions will fare just as well as whites in said environments.

    ———————–

    Having previously dissected the crime numbers, i am not inclined to redo the matter., again after again . . . you are over generalizing a very small and unique population to the entire population, as I noted myopic, i.e. the Michael Brown cases —

    And even the particulars of what you cite cannot be used to accurately describe most blacks. I have no idea what is meant by “good job” the issue is whether blacks engage other blacks in the same manner as whites, I think its clear they do. Good grief are we still on the trite inner city crime unique to blacks — this has been dealt with at legnth — starting a new discussion where i restate the same analysis is unnecesary

    Your blending various issues into one just won’t fly.
    —————————–

    Your comment about how I address blacks in the US is totally false. While stating the obvious, I make no excuses for criminal behavior, out of wedlock births, etc. You simply are unwilling to let go of your cliche’ notions about innate blackness for something more realistic, say, environments, etc. That is my rebuttal – some genetic inferiority. I cannot help you or anyone else that wants to dismiss the historical record.

    • Replies: @res
  244. res says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Show me one place where those two education links support your original point. I actually check links, unlike most people.

    black college attendance in comparison to whites.

    The only thing I see which comes close to addressing that refutes it (or do you consider being 10 percentage points behind a good thing?):

    The census link I gave shows the B/W comparison quite clearly across multiple levels of education.

    P.S. Please at least learn the difference between your and you’re. It gets painful to read after a while.

    P.P.S. What really frightens me is I think you truly believe your rationalizations excuse bad black behavior.

    • Replies: @EliteCommInc.
  245. @res

    I think you see the increased increase in attainment — hardly static and hardly reflective of some innate trait of inferiority. Which is my central point. I did not indicate what my original point was. You are ascribing a suggestion I did not make. In fact, I note, it will be some time before blacks match or exceed the same. I am not sure they ever will or that doing so is required to make the case I make.

    You can think that i support some manner of dysfunction but you won’t find anything that supports that view. I argue to realities:

    1. history matters

    2. black skin is not by the nature of black skin an indication of genetic inferiority

    My original point as to education was to make the comparisons and note the rise. i have in past submitted data that indicated that blacks are more representative of obtaining post high school education and even post bachelor degrees compared to whites.

    Laugh. I take full responsibilities for my lousy proof reading as always. Your grammatical notes are fine with me. And while I should do a better job of proof reading —

    But that aside, I think my positions are well layed out. And I make no apologies for not being on the black skin indicates an innate inferiority band wagon – whether I get there confused with their a or “you’re” mistakenly used in place of “your” thousand times or not.

  246. res says:

    hardly reflective of some innate trait of inferiority.

    1. I wasn’t arguing that. I was arguing about bad behavior.
    2. Not sure a consistent gap of >= 9% in graduation rates means what you think it means. Even if both rates are increasing roughly in parallel.

    I did not indicate what my original point was.

    I noticed. That is a big part of what makes your comments not very worthwhile to respond to.

    I know me being a grammar nazi is annoying, but your writing is often so garbled that I have trouble figuring out what you mean. Though perhaps that is more easily explained by you not making your points explicitly as discussed above.

    You realize you have completely failed to address my points, right? I have been focusing on bad black behavior and the failure of the black community to take responsibility for it.

    I am not saying you support dysfunction. I am saying that you and most other blacks consistently fail to speak about how it is a problem with the best solution being for the worst blacks to change their behavior. Which will never happen if the better behaving blacks fail to even acknowledge that there is a problem and individuals have both agency and responsibility for dealing with that.

  247. Anne Lid says:
    @Harbinger

    At my son’s primary in East London a Portuguese speaking new kid had problems. Her mum asked the Spanish teacher to talk to her in Spanish when communication is needed, she will get some of it. The teacher answered she does not actually speak Spanish. She sings Spanish songs (which is a good way to start acquiring a new language), but cannot make her own sentences.

  248. @Old Prude

    how am I to respond to this that I have now seen..a sharp, cutting comment. however, one does not have to be bitchy, tranny, effeminate or otherwise compromised to comment on any thread and issue.

    the issue is there no matter where and whom it derives from and if one has something to say relevant, may contributory to enhancing clarity..one os free to say it.

    I mean Derb as you refer to him maybe an impse, but he can still lead to good clarifying debate. there is nutten bitchy about me and my contribution. I dont see that any comment I have seen here is bitchy

  249. Laughing because this is my short answer.

    I spent some thinking about your comments. I am satisfied that I have in fact answered all of your presses, despite the fact that you don’t like the answers.

    No. Your gamesmanship is rejected. You noted black attainment in education, I indicated you should look at that history. If you thought you did not know what the point was you should ask why. When pressed on the matter. I made two responses (at least 2).

    1. That they indicate that blacks do in fact have increases over time

    2. And the disparity would be in keeping with historical trends of increased gains economy being a significant factor to post secondary education.

    In response to the consistent gap, without checking your numbers doing the numbers that would be consistent as to population size. If blacks are in fact 13% – 14% of the population then it would not be a huge leap that despite increases among said population said parallels gaps might still exist.

    No the gap has some meaning. I think we might be in dispute about what. And no you dancing around the issue of supposed black behavior. You are linking two separate issues. Education is one issue and your generic “bad behavior” is another. And the issue is why said behavior, and here you noted another generic concerning high profile cases, which has not reflection of the population in question. Your confusion is not because of garbled writing , your confusion most likely stems from making assumptions about what my positions indicate — such as the complete lack of knowledge about skin color which you base not on having any actual knowledge but on positions itself — which is irrelevent to the discussion.

    Note other parallels to the gap, income. It does take a sizeable income get into college and that gap remains largely in place, but noting that in the other reference I made that educational attainment for blacks is paying off for members of the population with black skin, even more than it does for whites in some areas.

    I answered your points directly previously. Including ferreting out your references and their not being reflective of the community at large. Your attempt to make it personal as opposed to the data, save the education issue. Furthermore, I have addressed the criminal conduct issue — in detail, previously and stated I would not do so again. And by the numbers, the stats don’t reflect a general disposition of “bad behavior”. They do indicate as has been my position consistently, that certain environments tend to have for various reasons more dysfunction and that regardless of anyone’s skin color those dysfunctions will exist in higher percentages — to those environments regardless of skin tone. Not only have a I addressed the questions. I have been gracious enough to extend beyond them. The black community is neither responsible for all blacks anymore than whites are responsible for all whites. It might be one issue to reference a community, a local, but there isn’t much in the way of room that a black in Chicago has any more responsibility for the blacks in NYC, than anyone else of any color.

    But I simply don’t see any support of the black community at large supporting any level of aberrant behavior by whites or blacks or anyone else. I don’t hear the blacks I do communicate with advocating criminal enterprise or behavior.

    If you were serious about a concern for what you term a lack of blacks confronting X conditions, then you know that simply is false. The record again is very clear. It is that blacks are “chocker block” full of confronting every issue you reference. But as opposed to searching out an answer, you mischaracterize responses by people on the site or you meet in conversation — I hate to break the news to you — your conclusions are not only based on misrepesenting the nature of the responses, but on a very small sample size.

    • LOL: res
  250. By-tor says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    Are you one the many whites in denial, delusion, and dismissing the cultural incompatibility of blacks in the US, perhaps? The FBI crime stats are not your current friend. Koreans who own stores in LA just watched ‘Birth of a Nation’ to come to the conclusions they hold. Right?

  251. @By-tor

    KOREAN QUESTION

    Why weren’t Korean shopkeepers affected by the purported crack cocaine epidemic that blighted the black ghetto since they also IN the ghetto at that time?

  252. @By-tor

    Blacks as whites have varying cultural practices.

    having repeatedly addressed the crime data. I won’t be inclined to do so again. I just don’t have an intention of fearing 3-5% of a population with whom I will have very little contact depending on where one lives or with whom one associates whether or black.

    And while I have had my issues with blacks. More theft and criminal behavior in my sphere has been done whites and browns.

    My experience with mixed communities is that like minded people get along (compatibility) quite well, regardless of skin color

  253. Livemike says:

     “[The NYT] used to be a very good newspaper. ”
    Fake news, it never was.

  254. Us neon-nazis read DS not NR. Dunno who reads NR since they fired you.

  255. anarchyst says:
    @jeff stryker

    Blacks WERE a problem in 1970s and beyond Detroit.
    I was able to keep up my property with no difficulty, painting the house (outside) on a regular basis, mowing the lawn and keeping the shrubbery trimmed-normal maintenance for any homeowner.
    Contrast my maintenance efforts and results with my black “neighbors” who did not keep up their property. You see, in the 1970s HUD had “special programs” to move blacks into single-family housing, without requiring these blacks to have any “skin in the game”.
    Of course, being white, I did not qualify for any of these programs.
    The liberal “urban studies” folks at Wayne State University always made excuses for blacks and their inability and lack of “upkeep” (normal everyday maintenance) on their homes. Their main excuse was that “the homes were old”…
    On almost every block, whites (mostly elderly Polish) who could not afford to move STILL kept up their homes–freshly cut grass, well-maintained exteriors, etc. despite their homes being just as “old” as those owned by blacks. No matter where you went in Detroit, one could always tell where whites lived. Neatly manicured lawns and well-kept-up houses were the norm.
    I finally left Detroit after a number of burglaries and little or no police response. The police KNEW who the criminals were but did nothing about it. You see, blacks were “oppressed” and were “untouchable”.
    Another situation was the “code enforcement” harassment that us whites endured. We always used the city-supplied trash containers (one for every two residences). Our black “neighbors” were too lazy to put their trash in the containers, strewing their trash throughout the alleys. Guess who got repeatedly ticketed for “improperly disposed of trash”? It wasn’t the blacks who improperly disposed of their trash–it was us whites. It was as if they (the black-run city government) wanted us to move…
    No, the old liberal excuses that poverty was instrumental in the destruction of Detroit is totally false.
    All one has to do was ask the party (liquor) store owners why they put up with the likes of blacks. The Detroit “ghetto” was (and is still) quite a “gold mine” for liquor, lottery tickets and junk food. I grew up in Detroit and personally witnessed the marginalization of whites along with the destruction by blacks.
    It’s CULTURE, not “poverty”.

  256. Medvedev says:
    @jeff stryker

    West Virginia one of the poorest and Whitest states in the country. Yet, their homicide rates are lower then US average.

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