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This week our subject is “Life in Derbistan” or London as it used to be. I’m going to indulge myself in some nostalgia. It’s geezerish, I know. But reading about the terrorist attack on London’s Westminster Bridge this Wednesday got me thinking about London, and I began to nostalge.

(Is that a verb, “nostalge”? “I nostalge; you nostalge; he, she, or it nostalges?” If it isn’t, it ought to be.)

So here goes with a trip down Memory Lane.

I was raised in a sleepy small provincial town whose natives referred to London, seventy miles southeast of us, as “the Smoke.” I only really got acquainted with London when I went to college there, from 1963 to 1966.

The colleges of London University didn’t have much residential accommodation. I lived for those three years in rented rooms, in private houses owned by Londoners. My very first semester’s landlord was an employee of Pentonville Prison in north-central London. He had fun stories about executions, capital punishment being then still on the books in England.

Not wanting to pay rent while back in my home town for vacations, I changed lodgings every semester, and sometimes mid-semester. So I got a good random selection of Londoners as landlords, or more often landladies.

A single rented room in a private house was called a “bedsitter,” and that’s what I lived in those three years. There was a whole bedsitter culture back then. Spike Milligan wrote a play titled The Bedsitting Room. Quentin Crisp described the bedsitter environment in his memoir The Naked Civil Servant.

London in the early 1960s wasn’t very diverse by current standards. My landlords and landladies were mostly English, or in one case Welsh. I did have a West Indian landlady for half a semester: a plump Trinidadian mulatto, pleasant enough when not in a mood, but a terrible housekeeper, with a host of men friends who shared her intimate favors serially on some schedule I never figured out.

The only other non-British foreigner was a Greek Cypriot, who threw me out summarily because he thought, mistakenly, I’d made a pass at his wife. People who knew Greek-Cypriot culture told me I was lucky to get away with all my parts still attached.

The modern immigration boom was well under way, but in London there were only a few small concentrations of blacks, and light scatterings of others like the Cypriots and Chinese.

The city had had its first black race riot in 1958. A poll taken five years later would I am sure have shown that most English people would have preferred the blacks to leave. But it wasn’t something people thought about much, so nothing was done. There was even some plantation-style paternalist affection towards blacks—on TV, The Black and White Minstrel Show was very popular.

Islam was even less of an issue. Muslim countries themselves were either keen to modernize or sunk in medieval apathy. For those trying to modernize, Islam was a dusty relic of the past that was only holding them back. That’s why you had these secular dictatorships like Nasser’s Egypt or Ba’ath Syria.

Nobody in London spoke or thought about Islam.

Notwithstanding which, Pakistani immigrants were deeply unpopular. Blacks, with all their faults, were at least cheerful, colorful, and musical. Pakis were none of those things, and were widely disliked. There was a genre of Paki jokes going round, some of them quite nasty. Here’s one of the milder ones:

A Pakistani is at London airport for a trip home. He’s sixpence short of the air fare, though. He approaches an English traveler. “Excuse me, Sir,” he says the Paki, “Could I ask you for sixpence, please? I’m trying to get home to Pakistan.”

The Englishman reaches into his pocket and brings out a half crown [equivalent to five sixpences]. “Here,” he says, “take four of your pals with you.”

There was some diversity in the student body of course. My math class contained a Chinese lad from Hong Kong, an early instance of the Asian math nerd. He introduced us to ngau-yuk-gon, the Cantonese version of beef jerky, which I still have a taste for.

In the Muswell Hill district, where I lodged for a year, there was also a clique of West African students, twenty-something guys from well-off families in Ghana, at that time under the dictatorship of the buffoonish Kwame Nkrumah, whom they all despised.

I hung out with them for a while, and learned some scattered things about West African culture. Tribalism, for example: One of them would say of another, “Oh, Kofi’s all right, but it was his people that put my father out of business …” Naming customs, too: If I were Ghanaian, my name would be Kwasi, because I was born on a Sunday—it goes by day of the week.

And drugs, of course. The Ghanaians all smoked hash in their leisure hours. I tried to join in for the sake of companionship, but it made me throw up.

I’ve never since bothered much with recreational pharmaceuticals. I didn’t cut much of a figure as a bohemian.

The Britain of fifty-odd years ago was a high-trust society. I had a girlfriend in my home town, and weekends I’d go home to see her. My normal mode of travel for those seventy miles was to hitch-hike. I’d take the subway out to Hendon Central, walk a half-mile to the on-ramp for the M1 (Britain’s first expressway, then new), and stand there with my thumb out, trying to look pleasant. Some truck driver or traveling salesman would pull over seeking some conversation on his drive, and an hour and a half later I’d be home.

It was the standard way of getting around if you had no money: not just in Britain, either, but all over Europe. In my 1964 summer vacation I hitch-hiked clear across the continent, to the Black Sea and back.

ORDER IT NOW

That was the London I knew, in the England I knew, in my salad days. It had plenty of blemishes, of course. There was terrific class snobbery and a smug, stuffy Establishment, not many of whom practiced noblesse oblige. A few years later, Irish terrorism came up, and made a nuisance of itself—sometimes a lethal one—to Londoners.

Still it was a country, whose various classes and subgroups knew each other—and close neighbors like the Irish—from long acquaintance, even if they didn’t necessarily like each other. Occasionally lunatics did crazy horrible things. But they were our lunatics and we dealt with them our way.

I’m aware that I approach National Question issues with that lost England in mind. I want to live in a country with a big solid majority of one race, one culture. I don’t mind there being others around, and in fact think it’s a healthy thing—salt in the stew. Foreigners can be interesting and amusing.

It’s all a matter of numbers, numbers and concentrations. Don’t take in too many, and discourage clustering—especially in this age of modern communications, when immigrants can bring their native country with them.

Is such an arrangement actually possible in this world today, though, with cheap air travel and low trade barriers?

It surely is: Japan, for example, is a pure Derbistan, as I just described the ideal.

That brings Japan in for a lot of scolding from the Open-Borders mob. Mass-immigration fanatic Bret Stephens [Email him] was lecturing them in The Wall Street Journal the other day:

On current trend the population will fall to 97 million by the middle of the century. Barely 10 per cent of Japanese will be children. The rest of the population will divide almost evenly between working-age adults and the elderly.

[Other People’s Babies, Wall Street Journal, March 20, 2017 ]

That doesn’t sound so bad. Late 20th-century Japan was very overcrowded. A population drop to 97 million would be good; 50 million would probably be better. The age distribution doesn’t much matter, with modern healthcare and productivity. Once the baby-boomers have died off and it’s these smaller age cohorts that are aging, it will matter even less.

Or if the Japanese want to get their population back in nine digits via mass immigration, it’s a democratic country and they can elect politicians who’ll take care of that.

But the Japanese show no inclination to do so, for all Bret Stephens’ hectoring.

Is it too late to get Britain back to the Derbistan ideal? My guess would be that it probably is. The place—that’s what it is now: a place, not a country—the place is irrevocably wrecked.

Still, something is owed to honesty. The Brits should at least admit—some national figure, a member of the Royal Family, for example, should publicly admit—that in the matter of mass immigration, the Brits long ago made a horribly wrong decision, while the Japanese made the right one.

The Brits destroyed their country. The Japanese preserved theirs.

All that was brought to mind by the incident in London on Wednesday.

A Muslim terrorist, of the “lone wolf” variety so far as we know, drove his car into pedestrians strolling on Westminster Bridge, killing three and wounding forty. When he arrived at the north end of the bridge, he jumped out and ran into the Houses of Parliament yard, brandishing a knife. He stabbed a policeman to death before being shot dead himself. The killer was identified as Khalid Masood. [From smiling Kent schoolboy to murdering jihadi: Police release mugshot of Westminster terrorist as schoolfriend reveals popular footballer suffered ‘mild racism’ for being the only black student, By Martin Robinson, UK Chief Reporter and Alex Matthews and Gareth Davies and Thomas Burrows for MailOnline, March 24, 2017]

The Main Stream Media, terrified that anyone might make an immigration connection, went to much trouble to emphasize that he was “British-born.”

He was indeed, but there is more to be said. In fact Masood was black, or at any rate mulatto, born to a 17-year-old English mother and an unknown but presumably black father 52 years ago—just when I was sampling hashish and hiding from enraged Cypriots in North London bedsitters. [ Khalid Masood: Everything we know about the London attacker, By Robert Mendick, Telegraph, March 24, 2017]When he was two years old his mother married a Nigerian gent, surname Ajao, who may or may not have been his biological father—nobody seems to know. He was thereafter raised as Adrian Russell Ajao. A career petty criminal, the future Khalid Masood was apparently converted to Islam in jail.

That seems to happen a lot, especially to blacks. Being in jail sure happens to British blacks a lot: Ten percent of inmates in British jails are black, though they are less than three percent of the general population.[UK Prison Reform Trust— Race And Prisons]

For all the MSM’s glee about him being British-born, Masood actually illustrates a thesis I’ve been arguing for years: that it’s not the first generation of immigrants you need to worry about so much as the second and subsequent generations.

As I have argued, some assimilate, some ab-similate. Some immigrant lines become more like us while some go the opposite way, becoming more alienated—they ab-similate. Ab-similation is especially probable when there is a deep difference in race or religion, with blacks and Muslims being the most likely to ab-similate.

The human tragedies of Masood’s victims make sad reading. One of those killed on the bridge was an American tourist, on a European vacation with his wife to mark their 25th wedding anniversary. The wife was badly injured. Another fatality on the bridge: a woman on her way to pick up her kids from school. She was thrown in the path of a double-decker bus and crushed to death. The third bridge fatality was a 75-year-old working-class Londoner, native English. [Killed on his way a hospital appointment, By Mark Duell for MailOnline, March 24 2017]

Many of those not actually killed will have had their lives destroyed. A 29-year-old Romanian tourist, celebrating her birthday in London with her fiancé, was thrown off the bridge into the river, suffering serious head injuries and damaged lungs.

ORDER IT NOW

Aside from the personal human dimension, the attack was a strike at English culture, at Englishness itself. Westminster Bridge stands at the heart of Englishness. On the north bank is the Palace of Westminster, where England’s laws have been made for 750 years. Next door is Westminster Abbey, built almost a thousand years ago, for centuries the last resting place of England’s kings, queens, heroes and poets.

On the south side of the bridge is St. Thomas’ Hospital, whose origins go far back into the unknown past, and Lambeth Palace, London residence of the Archbishop of Canterbury, who leads the Church of England.

If you hate England and the English and want to hit them where it hurts most, this is the place to strike.

It’s hard to believe Khalid Masood didn’t have that in mind.

Britain’s elites responded to the attack in General Casey style—“As horrific as this tragedy was, if our diversity becomes a casualty, that would be worse.”

The worthless, dithering Prime Minister, Theresa May, who was in charge of U.K. immigration policy for six years without making any perceptible dent in the numbers flooding in, summoned up the spirit of the Blitz, assuring her countrymen that “values of freedom of speech, liberty and democracy” would prevail.

I wouldn’t bet on it. Freedom of speech already effectively abolished in Britain by the Racial and Religious Hatred Act of 2006. Diversity is not strength. You can’t have deep differences of race and religion while maintaining the kind of liberties Englishmen traditionally enjoyed.

And while it’s certainly stirring for a British politician to summon the spirit of the Blitz, that leads to the awkward reflection that the Blitz was an attempt by foreign would-be conquerors to bend the British to their will.

The Brits of nowadays bend way more easily than their grandfathers did. They have reacted in good General Casey fashion, with floral tributes to the dead, moments of silence, and, yes, candlelight vigils all decorated with assurances of national unity and respect for Islam.

London’s Mayor Sadiq Khan , an Islamic supremacist of the stealth variety, presenting a calm, reasonable manner for the TV cameras while his people quietly infiltrate and take over, told viewers that “We won’t be cowed by terrorists.”[Donald Trump Jr criticises London mayor after terror attack, BBC, March 23, 2017

Who do you mean by “we,” Kemosabe?

The Mayor’s comments have an American dimension. Last September, after a bombing by an Afghan immigrant in New York City, Mayor Khan told a British newspaper that the threat of terror attacks is “part and parcel of living in a big city.” [Sadiq Khan: London mayor says terror attacks ‘part and parcel’ of living in a major city, By Gabriel Samuels, Independent, September 22 2016],

Well, Donald Trump Junior, our President’s son, tweeted that quote following last Wednesday’s Westminster attack, garnished with the comment, “You have to be kidding me.”

That raised gasps of horrified outrage from Goodthinking Americans. Several of them noticed a previous connection between the Trumps and London’s Mayor. [London mayor couldn’t care less about Donald Trump Jr.’s tweets,By Yaron Steinbuch, NY Post, March 23, 2017] The Goodthinkers have quoted with approval the Mayor’s comment last May that Donald’s father, now President Trump, was “ignorant” about Islam. [Sadiq Khan: Donald Trump’s views on Muslims are ignorant – video, May 16, 2015]

The definitive response to that is the one tweeted by the blogger Iowahawk a few months ago when TV talking head Piers Morgan opined that jihadi terrorists were not practicing true Islam.

I’ll adapt Iowahawk’s remark to the current situation, thus: Sadiq Khan has a law degree from a British university, ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has a Ph.D. in Islamic theology from the Islamic University of Baghdad. In the matter of what is true Islam, which one should we believe?

All the soothing words and earnest declarations of national unity have worked their magic, though. Everyone’s feelings have been soothed—everyone’s feelings except, of course, the feelings of those bereaved or crippled by Mr. Masood’s actions.

Now the Brits can relax, sink back into their lotus dreams of prosperity and racial harmony——until the next Islamic—immigration—atrocity.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him. ) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He’s had two books published by VDARE.com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and From the Dissident Right II: Essays 2013. His writings are archived at JohnDerbyshire.com.

(Republished from VDare.com by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Is it too late to get Britain back to the Derbistan ideal? My guess would be that it probably is. The place—that’s what it is now: a place, not a country—the place is irrevocably wrecked.

    Tut tut. As American leaders are fond of saying, all options are on the table.

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  2. I grew up in West London and never saw a Black person until the age of twenty-five.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gabriel Oak

    jim jones says:

    I grew up in West London and never saw a Black person until the age of twenty-five.
     
    You must be in your eighties.
  3. Quite so. It isn’t the generation of arrival that has a problem with identity as an exile.

    I did an apprenticeship in Rugby in the early 1970′s. There was a sizeable Afro-Caribbean community in the older terraced houses by then. I used to get digs there. The 1930′s Welsh & Northerners, Post war Poles and Irish had all been there previously. I am sure all the blacks suffered mild racism in school. In those days boys bullied each other. Everyone had a nick name. No one chose it and it was never a compliment. FWIW happiness researchers suggest that 52 is the age of maximum unhappiness. Then, lots of hash tends to schizophrenia. So we have a depressed misfit who might, without Islam have topped himself?

    There was never a debate about Commonwealth immigration. By the time people noticed, there were already large communities. The South Asians were arriving in Rugby and Leicester in the 1960′s. Leicester City schools are now said to be majority Asian. The 1968 Commonwealth Immigration act was too late. But the terrorism goes back to those decisions and a deliberate policy of Multiculturalism – ban Christmas, de-Christianize RE – rather than assimilation. There would still be 2nd and 3rd generation children channelling their problems via Islam but they would be living in a smaller less protective tribe. India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn’t close a deal with India). We’ll say Yes now.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gabriel Oak

    Philip Owen

    India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn’t close a deal with India). We’ll say Yes now.
     
    Won't happen. It would be electoral suicide.
    , @Art
    FWIW happiness researchers suggest that 52 is the age of maximum unhappiness.

    The jihadi lone wolf terrorist justifies his killing of us, by our killing of Muslims in large numbers. Of course first he has an unhappy personal life – then second he sees us killing his folks year in and year out - men, women, and children.

    Why commit suicide when you can expend your rage for it all, and die for a noble identity cause.

    Hmm - maybe we should stop killing his people – then he can just commit suicide and leave us along.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Maybe if we had a new honest inquiry into 9/11 – we could stop all this killing?
  4. Good article, I was hoping you would paint a picture of London today for us John.

    Read More
    • Replies: @jim jones
    South London now:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3FwTtBVjk
  5. As an adolescent, besides females, I became interested in national population and economic data as a way to measure our progress in the Cold War. With pride I noted that the US population grew from 180 million in 1960 to 220 million in 1970. Other than some Cubans and Puerto Ricans, most of that was internal growth not imports. The UK, as I recall, only managed to go from 55 million to 58 million and most of that was imports from the former colonies. More worrisome, the USSR still had the largest population outside of the Third World population centers of India and China. Today Putin runs a nation with a smaller population than that of Brazil, Indonesia, Nigeria and Pakistan!

    As modern civilization, the Pill and abortion worked their ‘miracles’ on western societies and with the post war 11th commandment against territorial conquest, governments whose populations refused to procreate more citizens, faced a stark choice. If they wanted to move up in the population power rankings they would have to allow mass immigration. They did not concern themselves with concepts like national cohesiveness, the happiness or desires of their citizenry. It was more important that the UK not being overtaken by France and that Canada maintain its 1/10 of America status in the international ‘big leagues’. Now all the nations that pursued these harebrained schemes may find themelves in the same position as Russia. A former heavyweight now reduced to middleweight status.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    The UK was busy populated Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Canada. It still is. Emigration is still substantial and it is not the unskilled lower class who emigrate.
    , @Oldeguy
    "As modern civilization, the Pill and abortion worked there "miracles" on western societies..."
    I find it striking how often the passive voice is used in describing the collapse of White fertility post 1960 in North America and Europe.
    We, not the Blacks, the Asians, the Mexicans, or any other group of Them did us in. All of these "invasions" are a symptom and result of our truly incredible failure of Spirit and Nerve- not its cause.
    Our grand parents and great grand parents who lived incredibly hard lives by current standards would be astounded by our jaw dropping degree of fecklessness and lack of any sense of duty toward those who will come after us.
    A country that took centuries of blood, toil, and sacrifice to build is falling apart before our very eyes and it ain't Them, folks.
  6. @unit472
    As an adolescent, besides females, I became interested in national population and economic data as a way to measure our progress in the Cold War. With pride I noted that the US population grew from 180 million in 1960 to 220 million in 1970. Other than some Cubans and Puerto Ricans, most of that was internal growth not imports. The UK, as I recall, only managed to go from 55 million to 58 million and most of that was imports from the former colonies. More worrisome, the USSR still had the largest population outside of the Third World population centers of India and China. Today Putin runs a nation with a smaller population than that of Brazil, Indonesia, Nigeria and Pakistan!

    As modern civilization, the Pill and abortion worked their 'miracles' on western societies and with the post war 11th commandment against territorial conquest, governments whose populations refused to procreate more citizens, faced a stark choice. If they wanted to move up in the population power rankings they would have to allow mass immigration. They did not concern themselves with concepts like national cohesiveness, the happiness or desires of their citizenry. It was more important that the UK not being overtaken by France and that Canada maintain its 1/10 of America status in the international 'big leagues'. Now all the nations that pursued these harebrained schemes may find themelves in the same position as Russia. A former heavyweight now reduced to middleweight status.

    The UK was busy populated Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Canada. It still is. Emigration is still substantial and it is not the unskilled lower class who emigrate.

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    • Replies: @Wiremu
    No, quite. In New Zealand we get those dreadfully dull, thrusting and predictable types from whatever tedious English location they cling to with their frightful pedoball shirts and Boden skirting.
    They are the type who ape their betters by vainly and pathetically assuming an air of world wariness and detachment but their lackings are too clear.
    They will never understand how New Zealander's get on with each other naturally and take a long time to understand that asking what people "do" is considered knaff and uninteresting.

    In the spirit of fairness; we also get hoards of South Africans who are even more bovine in their parochial tedium and are even less interesting. They do bring advanced racism and a penchant for petty theft so that makes them, at least slightly, colourful.

    New Zealand is a beautiful place. Don't go there.
  7. I see no easy way out of this, Muslims abuse our legal system to enforce their colonization project while our leaders happily pocket the money of radical Islamic leaders from the MENA region.

    At this very point in time, I actually fear that there will be a second holocaust in both western and eastern Europe. We hear so very often about how the EU has become overrun by spineless socialist cucks, yet a barely spoken about report has shown that as anti immigration as Trump and Farage is, the natives of Europe and the US are even less tolerant of muslims immigrants and actively talk quietly about deporting the unwanted unwashed masses from their cities and very lands.

    Unless the governments of the US, UK and EU do something real fast, they’ll find themselves tossed aside as history marches right over their battered bodies carrying with it a population full of apathy towards the smell of burning flesh in the air.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    From the article: "...it’s not the first generation of immigrants you need to worry about so much as the second and subsequent generations.”
    Here is a politically incorrect suggestion: Take away the UK (or EU) citizenship from career criminals / "freedom fighters" among the 2nd generation of emigres. When the Soviet Union had allowed a departure of the alleged "persecuted minority" of Jews (the educational status and job descriptions of the "persecuted refugees" was in a stark contrast to their claims of being persecuted), the Soviet government took away their citizenship on departure. The same could perhaps help with the aggressive "diversity" kinds that do not want to assimilate and do not want to uphold the cultural norms of the adoptive country. It would be cheaper to pay some allowances to countries of parents' origin for keeping the absimilated away from the western civilization, which they obviously hate and do not have mental capacity to understand. This simple arrangement could make miracles.
    Paying ISIS "freedom fighters" with Dutch' and Belgian' and Norwegian' taxpayers money is immoral lunacy and treason.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/world/europe/danes-fighting-for-isis-were-paid-welfare-benefits-government-says.html?_r=0
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/23/european-welfare-benefits-fund-islamic-state-isis-fighters/98290438/
  8. In these synthetic events, the patsy is of whatever racial or ethnic background that serves the synthetic narrative.

    If the purpose of the synthetic event was to demonize Mormons or Buddhists or some other group, then the patsies would be of that background.

    The original archetypal patsy was Lee Harvey Oswald, a white American Lutheran. With him, there was some sort of faux communist synthetic narrative in the background.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Gabriel Oak

    Jonathan Revusky says:

    In these synthetic events...
     
    If these events were synthetic, I would have thought they would be more spectacular. After all, the point of terrorism is to terrorise.

    I'd have thought MI5 might have some spare semtex and AK47s.

    I would have thought they would choose a big event, cameras rolling, that sort of thing - yeah?

    But no, they have some idiot with a kitchen knife and car that should really have been stuck in traffic.

    If you knew what driving in London is like, you would know there is a fair chance he would be unlikely to get the speed up to be able to mow anyone down.

    And this 'false flag' operation was rubber stamped by M?
  9. @jim jones
    I grew up in West London and never saw a Black person until the age of twenty-five.

    jim jones says:

    I grew up in West London and never saw a Black person until the age of twenty-five.

    You must be in your eighties.

    Read More
  10. @Philip Owen
    Quite so. It isn't the generation of arrival that has a problem with identity as an exile.

    I did an apprenticeship in Rugby in the early 1970's. There was a sizeable Afro-Caribbean community in the older terraced houses by then. I used to get digs there. The 1930's Welsh & Northerners, Post war Poles and Irish had all been there previously. I am sure all the blacks suffered mild racism in school. In those days boys bullied each other. Everyone had a nick name. No one chose it and it was never a compliment. FWIW happiness researchers suggest that 52 is the age of maximum unhappiness. Then, lots of hash tends to schizophrenia. So we have a depressed misfit who might, without Islam have topped himself?

    There was never a debate about Commonwealth immigration. By the time people noticed, there were already large communities. The South Asians were arriving in Rugby and Leicester in the 1960's. Leicester City schools are now said to be majority Asian. The 1968 Commonwealth Immigration act was too late. But the terrorism goes back to those decisions and a deliberate policy of Multiculturalism - ban Christmas, de-Christianize RE - rather than assimilation. There would still be 2nd and 3rd generation children channelling their problems via Islam but they would be living in a smaller less protective tribe. India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn't close a deal with India). We'll say Yes now.

    Philip Owen

    India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn’t close a deal with India). We’ll say Yes now.

    Won’t happen. It would be electoral suicide.

    Read More
    • Replies: @LondonBob
    If no one reports it how will we know?

    I like the spot the terrorist in the school photo, the black one obviously. Watched Scum! the other night, the problem of high levels of black dysfunction and derangement were already known.

    Islam has no central authority, Baghdadi's interpretation is wrong but it is also legitimate.
    , @Sunbeam
    What exactly does Britain (or the EU even) get out of a trade deal with India?

    Seems to me it doesn't help Europe at all. Maybe the Germans because Mercedes is seen as a marquee brand for some reason.
    , @Philip Owen
    So is the impending all round failure at finding advantageous trade deals. Letting Icelanders, Aussies and Kiwis throwing British farmers under a bus is not the way to a lasting Tory victory.
  11. @Jonathan Revusky
    In these synthetic events, the patsy is of whatever racial or ethnic background that serves the synthetic narrative.

    If the purpose of the synthetic event was to demonize Mormons or Buddhists or some other group, then the patsies would be of that background.

    The original archetypal patsy was Lee Harvey Oswald, a white American Lutheran. With him, there was some sort of faux communist synthetic narrative in the background.

    Jonathan Revusky says:

    In these synthetic events…

    If these events were synthetic, I would have thought they would be more spectacular. After all, the point of terrorism is to terrorise.

    I’d have thought MI5 might have some spare semtex and AK47s.

    I would have thought they would choose a big event, cameras rolling, that sort of thing – yeah?

    But no, they have some idiot with a kitchen knife and car that should really have been stuck in traffic.

    If you knew what driving in London is like, you would know there is a fair chance he would be unlikely to get the speed up to be able to mow anyone down.

    And this ‘false flag’ operation was rubber stamped by M?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jonathan Revusky

    If these events were synthetic, I would have thought they would be more spectacular.
     
    Let me get this straight. You're argument is that this must be a real, organic terrorist attack because if it wasn't, it would be more spectacular.

    So, I guess you must think that 9/11 was a synthetic event then. Or do you?
    , @utu
    It is possible they stitched this even up in a hurry if the event was to mask the Trump's allegations (and Devin Nunes revelations) that Brits were involved in Trump team surveillance on behalf of Obama.

    Note they did not publish any more recent pictures of the pasty/perpetrator. Here Derbyshire feeds us with 30+ years old pict form high school. The one that was in media is a mug shot from arrest from many years ago. Should we believe that police and media do not have more recent pictures of this guy from last 10 years?

  12. People who knew Greek-Cypriot culture told me I was lucky to get away with all my parts still attached.

    Cyprus has a homicide rate of 1.1 per 100,000. I doubt there’s much honor-driven violence there.

    The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total. You could certainly handle that if you had an elite who favored the natives and which was not bent on marginalizing your common–and-garden wage earners and petit bourgeoisie. It’s rude to Britain’s West Indian population to lump them in with the Muslim population. The West Indians do not pose much of a challenge, are < 2% of the population as we speak, and now have high rates of inter-marriage.

    Step 1 for a Farage ministry: a bill of attainder exiling the British equivalents of Peter Sutherland. Step 2: statutory legislation which restores freedom of contract and association. Have your immigrant population navigate British society as it emerges from the discretion exercised by people on the ground, without the option of calling in the lawyers. Step 3 reduce state allocation of benefits: statutory legislation providing for liquidation of extant public housing stock and for incremental elimination of residual rent controls. Step 4: limit cash doles for that share of the population which is neither elderly nor disabled to term-limited unemployment compensation (9 months max), term-limited workmen's compensation, and an income tax credit which functions as a wage subsidy at lower income levels. Step 5: have for immigrant populations staged introduction of eligibility for any kind of common provision (including school berths), with 12 years worth of working and paying taxes necessary to be on an equal footing with native British. Step 6: limit the stock of temporary residency permits to a fixed % of the extant native born population, and the flow to a moving average of verified annual departures. Step 7: limit the issuance of settler's visas to a figure derived from a formula which has the fertility deficit and the unemployment rate as arguments. About 85,000 admissions per annum would do given current conditions; have aspirants pass a written and oral English proficiency test, a background check, and a physical. Limit admissions from 25 or 30 problem countries to families with children or to older married couples. Step 8: limit naturalization to people who have been lawful and palpable residents of Britain, Ulster, or the insular dependencies for the majority of their natural life, and require they renounce their previous citizenship in writing (with a notification to the consulate) unless they've been citizens of one of the Queen's other realms or citizens of Ireland). Step 9: limit a menu of state posts to British subjects only, and limit the franchise to sit for civil services examinations and occupational licensing examinations to British subjects or to settler aliens who've been working and paying taxes for a requisite span of years. Step 10: grant children born in Britain to settler-aliens the status of denizen rather than citizen; require they seek naturalization if they want citizenship; allow their children born in Britain to have citizenship at birth.

    Britain is not ruined. It needs spackle work, like most any place human beings live.

    Read More
    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    It's fucked.

    You don't recognise dry rot when you see it.
    , @anon

    The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total.
     
    A good tip is whenever someone uses a statistic like this without reference to the age distribution they are arguing in bad faith.

    If you have 100 people from group A with 20% of breeding age and 10 people from group B, all of breeding age then with an equal TFR group B would produce 1/3 of the children.

    If group B had twice the TFR that 10% of the total population would produce 50% of the children.

    This is one way eenemies of western survival e.g. the media, deliberately deceive.

    The West Indians do not pose much of a challenge
     
    Also not true. Up until 9/11 SJWs were primarily focused on covering up black dysfunction (partly because importing people for cheap labor means you are going to mostly draw from the bottom of the pile). This changed after 9/11.
    , @Travis
    what matters is the percent of muslims of the younger generations...the muslim population of those under the age of 30 is over 10% already, and they have a higher fertility rate than the aboriginal population. The demographics of those over the age of 60 may well be 97% white, but this segment of the population will be gone soon and thus should be ignored when looking at the changing racila demographics of a nation
  13. >>The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total.

    Not a very important statistic, more relevant and revealing is the percentage of the population under 20 years of age who are Muslim. Anybody know? Would a guess of 20% be far off the mark?

    Read More
    • Replies: @berserker
    And the fertility rates for the various groups in the multicultural utopia.
    , @Art Deco
    The tfr of the Maghreb is just a shade above replacement level. Turkey's is replacement level. Pakistan's is higher (3.26) but tanking. The populations of the source countries are just not that fecund.
  14. Tyberim sanguine magno spumentem cerno.

    Enoch Powell. 1968

    Read More
    • Replies: @quasi_verbatim
    Which is why the dear boy, when Minister of Health, brought in 3000 nurses from the Carrybeehan -- to donate the blood, or staunch it, or let it -- no-one knows. His formative wartime experience was Pongo officer out East, down India way, which, again, is why he had not been sensitised to the other lot, a blind spot? Put not your faith in Classics professors, rather cleave to dog Latinists like Bonkers.
  15. @Gabriel Oak

    Jonathan Revusky says:

    In these synthetic events...
     
    If these events were synthetic, I would have thought they would be more spectacular. After all, the point of terrorism is to terrorise.

    I'd have thought MI5 might have some spare semtex and AK47s.

    I would have thought they would choose a big event, cameras rolling, that sort of thing - yeah?

    But no, they have some idiot with a kitchen knife and car that should really have been stuck in traffic.

    If you knew what driving in London is like, you would know there is a fair chance he would be unlikely to get the speed up to be able to mow anyone down.

    And this 'false flag' operation was rubber stamped by M?

    If these events were synthetic, I would have thought they would be more spectacular.

    Let me get this straight. You’re argument is that this must be a real, organic terrorist attack because if it wasn’t, it would be more spectacular.

    So, I guess you must think that 9/11 was a synthetic event then. Or do you?

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  16. Perhaps you ought change Derbistan moniker to Derbyland to rhyme with Disneyland because what you have in mind sounds more like fantasy… A place where you can enjoy all the Chinese beef jerky you can eat!

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  17. @Art Deco
    People who knew Greek-Cypriot culture told me I was lucky to get away with all my parts still attached.

    Cyprus has a homicide rate of 1.1 per 100,000. I doubt there's much honor-driven violence there.


    The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total. You could certainly handle that if you had an elite who favored the natives and which was not bent on marginalizing your common--and-garden wage earners and petit bourgeoisie. It's rude to Britain's West Indian population to lump them in with the Muslim population. The West Indians do not pose much of a challenge, are < 2% of the population as we speak, and now have high rates of inter-marriage.

    Step 1 for a Farage ministry: a bill of attainder exiling the British equivalents of Peter Sutherland. Step 2: statutory legislation which restores freedom of contract and association. Have your immigrant population navigate British society as it emerges from the discretion exercised by people on the ground, without the option of calling in the lawyers. Step 3 reduce state allocation of benefits: statutory legislation providing for liquidation of extant public housing stock and for incremental elimination of residual rent controls. Step 4: limit cash doles for that share of the population which is neither elderly nor disabled to term-limited unemployment compensation (9 months max), term-limited workmen's compensation, and an income tax credit which functions as a wage subsidy at lower income levels. Step 5: have for immigrant populations staged introduction of eligibility for any kind of common provision (including school berths), with 12 years worth of working and paying taxes necessary to be on an equal footing with native British. Step 6: limit the stock of temporary residency permits to a fixed % of the extant native born population, and the flow to a moving average of verified annual departures. Step 7: limit the issuance of settler's visas to a figure derived from a formula which has the fertility deficit and the unemployment rate as arguments. About 85,000 admissions per annum would do given current conditions; have aspirants pass a written and oral English proficiency test, a background check, and a physical. Limit admissions from 25 or 30 problem countries to families with children or to older married couples. Step 8: limit naturalization to people who have been lawful and palpable residents of Britain, Ulster, or the insular dependencies for the majority of their natural life, and require they renounce their previous citizenship in writing (with a notification to the consulate) unless they've been citizens of one of the Queen's other realms or citizens of Ireland). Step 9: limit a menu of state posts to British subjects only, and limit the franchise to sit for civil services examinations and occupational licensing examinations to British subjects or to settler aliens who've been working and paying taxes for a requisite span of years. Step 10: grant children born in Britain to settler-aliens the status of denizen rather than citizen; require they seek naturalization if they want citizenship; allow their children born in Britain to have citizenship at birth.

    Britain is not ruined. It needs spackle work, like most any place human beings live.

    It’s fucked.

    You don’t recognise dry rot when you see it.

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    • Replies: @Perspective
    Fortunately for Europe they do have a blue print from Israel that can be adapted to the European framework to help reverse much of the demographic and psychological damage. Of course the probability of this happening is about as likely as finding a three legged ballerina, but if history has taught us anything it is that things can change suddenly.
  18. I guess history actually repeats first as farce then as tragedy. All those adorable British mop-tops and then…the odd man out.

    the fifth beatle.. from Chris Greene on Vimeo.

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  19. @unit472
    As an adolescent, besides females, I became interested in national population and economic data as a way to measure our progress in the Cold War. With pride I noted that the US population grew from 180 million in 1960 to 220 million in 1970. Other than some Cubans and Puerto Ricans, most of that was internal growth not imports. The UK, as I recall, only managed to go from 55 million to 58 million and most of that was imports from the former colonies. More worrisome, the USSR still had the largest population outside of the Third World population centers of India and China. Today Putin runs a nation with a smaller population than that of Brazil, Indonesia, Nigeria and Pakistan!

    As modern civilization, the Pill and abortion worked their 'miracles' on western societies and with the post war 11th commandment against territorial conquest, governments whose populations refused to procreate more citizens, faced a stark choice. If they wanted to move up in the population power rankings they would have to allow mass immigration. They did not concern themselves with concepts like national cohesiveness, the happiness or desires of their citizenry. It was more important that the UK not being overtaken by France and that Canada maintain its 1/10 of America status in the international 'big leagues'. Now all the nations that pursued these harebrained schemes may find themelves in the same position as Russia. A former heavyweight now reduced to middleweight status.

    “As modern civilization, the Pill and abortion worked there “miracles” on western societies…”
    I find it striking how often the passive voice is used in describing the collapse of White fertility post 1960 in North America and Europe.
    We, not the Blacks, the Asians, the Mexicans, or any other group of Them did us in. All of these “invasions” are a symptom and result of our truly incredible failure of Spirit and Nerve- not its cause.
    Our grand parents and great grand parents who lived incredibly hard lives by current standards would be astounded by our jaw dropping degree of fecklessness and lack of any sense of duty toward those who will come after us.
    A country that took centuries of blood, toil, and sacrifice to build is falling apart before our very eyes and it ain’t Them, folks.

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    • Agree: Clyde, Randal, Ace
    • Replies: @anon

    and it ain’t Them, folks.
     
    which them?

    the borders were opened by the people who dominate the political-media class

    the banking mafia
  20. The writer vomits racism and uses the excuse of his article to spew disgraceful jokes about Pakistanis. British like to use nicknames about other people, showing their shallow character. What does have to say about bout British atrocities and bombings all over the Muslim world?

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    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @berserker
    I agree that the West should stop selling weapons and bombing the so-called Muslim world.

    - But we also know that the Muslim world has been full of peaceful people for 1400 years. Hindhus amongst others have been at the receiving end of their peaceful message. Until the West started interfering, these wonderful desert people lived in peace with the rest of humanity.
    - In fact, even today, minorities in the wonderful Muslim world are treated extremely well. There are long lines - outside embassies of countries from the Muslim world - of people begging for entry into wonderful Muslim countries.
    - One thing I do not understand is why the wonderful Muslims insist on moving to the West where the dangerous racists and Islamophobes reside. We are evil; stay away. Perhaps you can warn them.
    - To understand the peaceful nature of Muslims, I read about the life of their prophet Mohammed, the best human being. Mahavira - the founder of Jainism - was perfectly vile compared to the great Mohammed. Jains are known all over the world for their violent behaviour. After all, their religion demands it.
    - Thank you for your insight.

    , @Ace
    ** The writer vomits racism **

    'E's 'orrid! A bleedin' 'orrid cove, he is.
  21. @Renoman
    Good article, I was hoping you would paint a picture of London today for us John.

    South London now:

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  22. To refute Bret Stephens (I don’t want to mail him) I would say if I was a Japanese I would rather live in a 100-million Japan but where 95% are Japanese than in a 150-million Japan where 50 million (33%) would be gaijins.
    Or from another perspective I (if I was a Japanese) would prefer fewer Japanese but each living better than more Japanese but each living worse. Of course, it would be perfect if there were more Japanese and each lived better, but as natural sources are limited it would be naive to expect impossible. Everything has its limits. Not to mention it would be terrible if there were still fewer Japanese but the overall population would grow or rather be compensated by foreigners but the end result were the diminished Japanese live worse.

    I think these formulas for immigration policy apply to most nations.

    That doesn’t sound so bad. Late 20th-century Japan was very overcrowded. A population drop to 97 million would be good; 50 million would probably be better. The age distribution doesn’t much matter, with modern healthcare and productivity. Once the baby-boomers have died off and it’s these smaller age cohorts that are aging, it will matter even less.

    Once I expressed a similar thought about Russia. Quite expectedly I was called a Russophobe. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with raw numbers, like numbers is all that only matters. But important are not the numbers but the people who are hidden under these numbers and how those people live. Paying attention only to numbers and ignoring the people under the numbers is inhumanely utilitarian and totalitarian. It is usually ruthless dictators who care less about living people because they are just statistics for those dictators. The more the masses the bigger their ego. This is why Stalin rejected the 1937 census as “untrue” because they counted too few people while he wanted more people. Today’s establishment are less concerned about their ego, but more about the number of sheeple they could shear and exploit. So for them it is indeed a total catastrophe if the number of people they are shearing diminish. So they would rather import people with an absolutely alien race and culture than accept that the population may decline but, as a positive side effect, will still be able to remain racially or culturally stable.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    "Once I expressed a similar thought about Russia. Quite expectedly I was called a Russophobe. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with raw numbers, like numbers is all that only matters.....So they would rather import people with an absolutely alien race and culture than accept that the population may decline but, as a positive side effect, will still be able to remain racially or culturally stable."

    Russia needs NATURAL population growth (i.e., population growth of the CURRENT NATIVE RUSSIAN POPULATION) - NOT growth by "importing people with an absolutely alien race and culture". That should be self-explanatory to anyone except an obtuse moron. You claimed that it would be necessary and beneficial for already very sparsely-populated Russia to LOSE one-third of its population and DECLINE to a population of 100,000,000 (with you, yourself, NOT being included in that decline, of course, for some reason....!) It is DEMENTED IDIOCY to think that a desolate, depopulated Russia of only 100,000,000 people distributed over 18,000,000 square km. would have a healthy society or economy, or would be able to protect her borders and territory from the mounting pressures (whether military or "peaceful" migratory) of enemy powers and racial-religious aliens. Russia has many serious ENEMIES who want to destroy, subjugate or break up the Russian state and society, and then move in to take control of Russian territory and resources, if you hadn't realized - first and foremost, the voracious, Russia-hating U.S. globo-imperialist elites. And for most of Russia's foes, the low fertility rates and declining population of post-Soviet Russia is a major sign of WEAKNESS AND DECAY, cause for CONTEMPTUOUS GLOATING, and incentive for AGGRESSION - witness, for example, the celebratory crowing of the Russophobic neocon scum "unit472" earlier on this comment thread.

    Does this make things clearer for your slow and egotistical brain??
    , @robt
    I will be more concise.
    In ancient history, the person who had the most slaves was the richest.
    Today, the leader of a country who has the most slaves is the richest.
  23. The Americans initiated and lead the “open borders” movement because their wealthy leaders want the world to be homogenous and accessible to their profit-squeezing corporations. Moreover, the USA is the classic “state without a nation”; ALL Americans are immigrants or descended from immigrants, except for the few remaining Native Americans. That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country.

    As for the Japanese birth rate, etc., it has been calculated – using the best available facts, figures, and science – that the maximum population the UK could sustain permanently would be about 16 million. See, for example, https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/sustainable_populations.pdf and https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/overshoot_index.pdf

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    • Replies: @Negrolphin Pool

    The Americans initiated and lead the “open borders” movement because their wealthy leaders want the world to be homogenous and accessible to their profit-squeezing corporations.
     
    That may have been true at one time but it's certainly no longer the case. Anyone who's used Adsense knows that traffic from Africa or MENA is often valued at the tiniest fractions of that from the U.S. or Europe. That's stone-cold algorithmic, objective analysis, an unappealable and final judgment of the third-world's book value . And they all know it and understand its implications. It would be a hard sell to convince a rational observer that Larry Page or Zuckerberg actually believe in magic dirt.

    So why do these policies persist?

    , @Georgiaboy61
    Re: "That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country."

    You paint with a rather broad brush. The "open borders" movement of which you speak is simply a form of globalism, an ideology which calls no particular western nation home - but instead a variety of them. Ordinary Americans, like their counterparts in places like Britain, never wanted globalism, never wanted their homelands and communities to resemble the United Nations. Rather, it was the elites - the ruling class - who forced these things upon us - and continue to do so right up to the present day.

    If you want to study a prototypical globalist, examine the obituaries from a week or two ago, when one of the world's richest men, David Rockefeller, died at age 101. He was lecturing and giving talks about globalism as long ago as the 1950s. Rockefeller was an American, but he had - and has - counterparts in every western nation of any consequence. In Great Britain, no less than Prince Charles himself has drunk the politically-correct, multicultural and globalist Kool-Aid of the cultural Marxists, to such an extent he sounds like an advertisement for the movement every time he opens his mouth. Merkel in Germany, Trudeau in Canada, the list goes on and on.

    By the way, one of the reasons Vladimir Putin is so hated by certain segments of the western ruling class is that he explicitly rejects globalism and all of the politically-correct baggage that accompanies it. The nerve of the guy - wanting to live in a Russia for Russians!

    It should also be noted that the mass invasion of the west via third-world immigration has not occurred by chance, but rather is the result of a specific mindset and set of decisions reached by the ruling classes, who have taken it upon themselves to remodel the entirety of western civilization without popular consent or anything resembling a political mandate. That includes the current invasion of Europe by the Islamic hordes, now taking place under the politically-correct euphemism of disaster-relief for refugees.

    The Muslims even have a specific term for conquest via immigration - it is termed the hegira. Undertaking hegira is considered a sacred duty within orthodox Islam, because - by doing it - the believer (shahid) is emulating the example of Mohammed himself.

    Significant portions of Great Britain are already living under sharia law, or what amounts to it. When Muslims enforce no-go zones for non-Muslims, or bring traffic to a stop so they can pray towards Mecca, they are enforcing sharia. They are doing the same when they pressure employers to ban the eating of non-halal foods, such as pork.

    The popular mainstream media are a lousy source, by the way, for genuine information about Islam. Almost all of the MSM is tainted and/or coopted and can't be trusted. Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it.

    Cheers - and happy reading!

  24. @Gabriel Oak

    Philip Owen

    India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn’t close a deal with India). We’ll say Yes now.
     
    Won't happen. It would be electoral suicide.

    If no one reports it how will we know?

    I like the spot the terrorist in the school photo, the black one obviously. Watched Scum! the other night, the problem of high levels of black dysfunction and derangement were already known.

    Islam has no central authority, Baghdadi’s interpretation is wrong but it is also legitimate.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Exactly, it will be called something other than Free Movement. The Indian Restaurant Chef Scheme comes to mind. And then a few gangmasters can bring crop pickers to Lincolnshire and East Anglia instead of Poles under another label. A sizeable group of Indian businessmen in the UK voted Brexit and support UKIP because they want more primary migrants from India to work in their businesses. The Tories want them back from UKIP.
  25. Instead of having a chip on their shoulders and becoming consumed with hatred they should just do the sensible thing and move to Africa or a Muslim country. Racism and discrimination are natural mechanisms that defend the group. We all prefer our own kind, to pretend otherwise results in this horrific modern reality, rife with crime, terrorism and ethnic conflict. We have to be honest about racial differences and not continue to pretend that they somehow do not matter.

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  26. The British have been at the forefront of South Africa’s destruction over more than a century. I will shed not one tear for their self inflicted demise through their own stupidity. Like the Romans, the Greeks, the Portuguese, the Spanish and other once great nations, the British have fallen far and hard. They will cease to exist as a nation, and England as a country, in my lifetime.

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  27. When my people were suffering terrorist acts from domestically born extremist Islamist, mainly Muslim Brotherhood and shiptari illegal immigration, Britain actively helped and supported them.
    Talk about chickens coming home to roost.
    God Bless Trump, Putin, Wilders, Le Pen and any other leader who puts their country FIRST.

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  28. @Gabriel Oak

    Jonathan Revusky says:

    In these synthetic events...
     
    If these events were synthetic, I would have thought they would be more spectacular. After all, the point of terrorism is to terrorise.

    I'd have thought MI5 might have some spare semtex and AK47s.

    I would have thought they would choose a big event, cameras rolling, that sort of thing - yeah?

    But no, they have some idiot with a kitchen knife and car that should really have been stuck in traffic.

    If you knew what driving in London is like, you would know there is a fair chance he would be unlikely to get the speed up to be able to mow anyone down.

    And this 'false flag' operation was rubber stamped by M?

    It is possible they stitched this even up in a hurry if the event was to mask the Trump’s allegations (and Devin Nunes revelations) that Brits were involved in Trump team surveillance on behalf of Obama.

    Note they did not publish any more recent pictures of the pasty/perpetrator. Here Derbyshire feeds us with 30+ years old pict form high school. The one that was in media is a mug shot from arrest from many years ago. Should we believe that police and media do not have more recent pictures of this guy from last 10 years?

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  29. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Mr. Derbyshire is far luckier than he thinks. While we must contend with having to live with hordes of Latinos, Blacks, Muslims and the rest of them, he and his Chinese family can move to China and live in a homogeneous environment where none of the above scums are present. Exactly what he notalges for.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    Is this a voice from the "only democracy in the Middle East?" We already have some ideas about your "inclusiveness."
    , @Truth
    LMFAO! None of the ABOVE scums, but there will be one foreign scum there if he moves...
  30. @Gabriel Oak

    Philip Owen

    India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn’t close a deal with India). We’ll say Yes now.
     
    Won't happen. It would be electoral suicide.

    What exactly does Britain (or the EU even) get out of a trade deal with India?

    Seems to me it doesn’t help Europe at all. Maybe the Germans because Mercedes is seen as a marquee brand for some reason.

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    • Replies: @Philip Owen
    Britain gets very little without a financial services deal which is why the UK can afford to block the EU trade deal with India in perpetuity. The Germans, Swedes and Italians get to sell India machine tools and their Indian immigrant communities are tiny.

    Outside the EU the Tories have to sign a string of trade deals, on almost any terms, to survive the following election as the economic penny about Brexit finally starts dropping.
    , @anon

    What exactly does Britain (or the EU even) get out of a trade deal with India?
     
    It's not Britain it's the banks.

    They made a deal with India / China a few years back - open UK's borders / trade in exchange for the banks having free access to the India/China financial sectors.

    The banking mafia are parasites - they sell out their previous victim as a way of ingratiating themselves with their new target.
  31. @Daniel H
    >>The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total.

    Not a very important statistic, more relevant and revealing is the percentage of the population under 20 years of age who are Muslim. Anybody know? Would a guess of 20% be far off the mark?

    And the fertility rates for the various groups in the multicultural utopia.

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  32. @Violence Watch
    The writer vomits racism and uses the excuse of his article to spew disgraceful jokes about Pakistanis. British like to use nicknames about other people, showing their shallow character. What does have to say about bout British atrocities and bombings all over the Muslim world?

    I agree that the West should stop selling weapons and bombing the so-called Muslim world.

    - But we also know that the Muslim world has been full of peaceful people for 1400 years. Hindhus amongst others have been at the receiving end of their peaceful message. Until the West started interfering, these wonderful desert people lived in peace with the rest of humanity.
    - In fact, even today, minorities in the wonderful Muslim world are treated extremely well. There are long lines – outside embassies of countries from the Muslim world – of people begging for entry into wonderful Muslim countries.
    - One thing I do not understand is why the wonderful Muslims insist on moving to the West where the dangerous racists and Islamophobes reside. We are evil; stay away. Perhaps you can warn them.
    - To understand the peaceful nature of Muslims, I read about the life of their prophet Mohammed, the best human being. Mahavira – the founder of Jainism – was perfectly vile compared to the great Mohammed. Jains are known all over the world for their violent behaviour. After all, their religion demands it.
    - Thank you for your insight.

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  33. @Gabriel Oak

    Philip Owen

    India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn’t close a deal with India). We’ll say Yes now.
     
    Won't happen. It would be electoral suicide.

    So is the impending all round failure at finding advantageous trade deals. Letting Icelanders, Aussies and Kiwis throwing British farmers under a bus is not the way to a lasting Tory victory.

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  34. @Sunbeam
    What exactly does Britain (or the EU even) get out of a trade deal with India?

    Seems to me it doesn't help Europe at all. Maybe the Germans because Mercedes is seen as a marquee brand for some reason.

    Britain gets very little without a financial services deal which is why the UK can afford to block the EU trade deal with India in perpetuity. The Germans, Swedes and Italians get to sell India machine tools and their Indian immigrant communities are tiny.

    Outside the EU the Tories have to sign a string of trade deals, on almost any terms, to survive the following election as the economic penny about Brexit finally starts dropping.

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  35. @John Smith.
    I see no easy way out of this, Muslims abuse our legal system to enforce their colonization project while our leaders happily pocket the money of radical Islamic leaders from the MENA region.

    At this very point in time, I actually fear that there will be a second holocaust in both western and eastern Europe. We hear so very often about how the EU has become overrun by spineless socialist cucks, yet a barely spoken about report has shown that as anti immigration as Trump and Farage is, the natives of Europe and the US are even less tolerant of muslims immigrants and actively talk quietly about deporting the unwanted unwashed masses from their cities and very lands.

    Unless the governments of the US, UK and EU do something real fast, they'll find themselves tossed aside as history marches right over their battered bodies carrying with it a population full of apathy towards the smell of burning flesh in the air.

    From the article: “…it’s not the first generation of immigrants you need to worry about so much as the second and subsequent generations.”
    Here is a politically incorrect suggestion: Take away the UK (or EU) citizenship from career criminals / “freedom fighters” among the 2nd generation of emigres. When the Soviet Union had allowed a departure of the alleged “persecuted minority” of Jews (the educational status and job descriptions of the “persecuted refugees” was in a stark contrast to their claims of being persecuted), the Soviet government took away their citizenship on departure. The same could perhaps help with the aggressive “diversity” kinds that do not want to assimilate and do not want to uphold the cultural norms of the adoptive country. It would be cheaper to pay some allowances to countries of parents’ origin for keeping the absimilated away from the western civilization, which they obviously hate and do not have mental capacity to understand. This simple arrangement could make miracles.
    Paying ISIS “freedom fighters” with Dutch’ and Belgian’ and Norwegian’ taxpayers money is immoral lunacy and treason.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/world/europe/danes-fighting-for-isis-were-paid-welfare-benefits-government-says.html?_r=0

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/02/23/european-welfare-benefits-fund-islamic-state-isis-fighters/98290438/

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  36. @LondonBob
    If no one reports it how will we know?

    I like the spot the terrorist in the school photo, the black one obviously. Watched Scum! the other night, the problem of high levels of black dysfunction and derangement were already known.

    Islam has no central authority, Baghdadi's interpretation is wrong but it is also legitimate.

    Exactly, it will be called something other than Free Movement. The Indian Restaurant Chef Scheme comes to mind. And then a few gangmasters can bring crop pickers to Lincolnshire and East Anglia instead of Poles under another label. A sizeable group of Indian businessmen in the UK voted Brexit and support UKIP because they want more primary migrants from India to work in their businesses. The Tories want them back from UKIP.

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  37. @Anon
    Mr. Derbyshire is far luckier than he thinks. While we must contend with having to live with hordes of Latinos, Blacks, Muslims and the rest of them, he and his Chinese family can move to China and live in a homogeneous environment where none of the above scums are present. Exactly what he notalges for.

    Is this a voice from the “only democracy in the Middle East?” We already have some ideas about your “inclusiveness.”

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  38. @Philip Owen
    Quite so. It isn't the generation of arrival that has a problem with identity as an exile.

    I did an apprenticeship in Rugby in the early 1970's. There was a sizeable Afro-Caribbean community in the older terraced houses by then. I used to get digs there. The 1930's Welsh & Northerners, Post war Poles and Irish had all been there previously. I am sure all the blacks suffered mild racism in school. In those days boys bullied each other. Everyone had a nick name. No one chose it and it was never a compliment. FWIW happiness researchers suggest that 52 is the age of maximum unhappiness. Then, lots of hash tends to schizophrenia. So we have a depressed misfit who might, without Islam have topped himself?

    There was never a debate about Commonwealth immigration. By the time people noticed, there were already large communities. The South Asians were arriving in Rugby and Leicester in the 1960's. Leicester City schools are now said to be majority Asian. The 1968 Commonwealth Immigration act was too late. But the terrorism goes back to those decisions and a deliberate policy of Multiculturalism - ban Christmas, de-Christianize RE - rather than assimilation. There would still be 2nd and 3rd generation children channelling their problems via Islam but they would be living in a smaller less protective tribe. India now wants Free Movement in exchange for a Trade Deal (UK saying no is why the EU didn't close a deal with India). We'll say Yes now.

    FWIW happiness researchers suggest that 52 is the age of maximum unhappiness.

    The jihadi lone wolf terrorist justifies his killing of us, by our killing of Muslims in large numbers. Of course first he has an unhappy personal life – then second he sees us killing his folks year in and year out – men, women, and children.

    Why commit suicide when you can expend your rage for it all, and die for a noble identity cause.

    Hmm – maybe we should stop killing his people – then he can just commit suicide and leave us along.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. Maybe if we had a new honest inquiry into 9/11 – we could stop all this killing?

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  39. Attitude of EU governments & courts toward Islam changing very swiftly, big moves already underway

    This was seen concretely in the recent EU Court decision that businesses may ban women from wearing Muslim religious veils at work, so long as religious symbols in general are banned in order to present a ‘neutral’ image to clients, e.g., also banning noticeable crucifixes or crosses, kippah – yarmulke head pieces on Jewish men, etc

    A new framework is evolving, with key ideas that:

    (A) ‘European values’ means protecting the Muslims who wish to be non-fundamentalist, against what seem to be oppressive Muslim dominant trends, now under influence by fundamentalist imams
    – E.g., Muslim daughters & wives are being threatened, beaten, abused to coerce them into wearing veils … these women need protection, a mere ability to file legal charges individually won’t effectively protect them, hence anti-veiling laws need to be considered … An evolving view is that Muslim husbands in shorts & t-shirts leading wives draped & veiled head to foot in 30+ degree summer heat may need to be considered as spouse abusers creating public disturbance

    (B) An also-evolving idea is that anti-veiling laws etc are not ‘anti-Muslim’ but merely an iteration of ‘anti-religious-fundamentalism’ as inherently oppressive, similar to how Europe has had to fight against Christian excesses up till very recently … ‘European values’ means Europe needs to stop victims such as children & women being abused by religious fundamentalists of any kind
    – In short, the Muslim woman’s veil, is intrinsically a reminder that some percentage of those women are being coerced, beaten, threatened, forced into wearing such veils … the Muslim events of acid thrown into women’s faces, ‘honour killings’, Qur’an Koran ‘authority’cited for beating wives & daughters, are all too real for Muslim women
    – Some Muslim females even privately hoping for the victory of Marine Le Pen with her proposal to ban religious garb such as the Muslim headscarf veil, even from public streets, excepting only full-time religious employees
    – Everyone who meets or knows significant numbers of Muslim females, seems to have stories of Muslim women privately voicing fears of the ‘Wear the veil!’ oppression … these women wondering why so-called Western ‘feminists’ are not siding with the women but with the Saudi-backed imams as part of the ‘multi-cultural’ identity politics agenda

    Big EU pressures currently are -

    (1) Visegrád countries of Hungary, Czechia, Poland & Slovakia, are making it clear that they are ready to follow Britain & exit the EU rather than accept increasing Islamist presence in their countries, this is under intensive discussion in EU corridors

    (2) European political parties of the Left are collapsing in part because their more indigenous European members are massively rejecting the socialist-Muslim alliances, e.g., former French Socialists now supporting Marine Le Pen

    (Muslims also are accepting this collapse, seeing that decimated, imploding Left parties are no longer useful to them, & Muslims have successfully begun their own migrant-Muslim parties, Denk (‘Think’) in the Netherlands winning Dutch Parliament seats in March 2017; Muslim politician Ahmet Koç is starting a similar party in Belgium)

    (3) EU citizen discontent with issues related to Muslims, has become anger at the EU itself … approximately a third of EU voters in some countries, are showing significant anti-Islamisation tendencies in their voting

    (The top 2 Dutch parties in the March 2017 election, comprising one-third of the electorate, both used anti-Muslim themes to win their victory, Prime Minister Mark Rutte winning favour for sending armed security ‘ready to shoot’ to block a Turkish diplomat from crossing the Dutch border to campaign for Erdogan amongst the Netherlands’ 400,000 Turks)

    (4) Donald Trump’s USA administration has made it clear he is not interested in assisting Europe’s internal difficulties & is even downplaying Nato, also cleverly asking Europeans to at last pay full price per the Nato agreements if they want to keep Nato … Trump seems ready to let the euro currency or EU fall apart … Trump sees Islam-tied terrorism in Europe as resulting in part from Europe’s own stupid policies … hence EU leaders are thinking & moving in new directions re Islam, as a matter of EU survival

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  40. @Daniel H
    >>The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total.

    Not a very important statistic, more relevant and revealing is the percentage of the population under 20 years of age who are Muslim. Anybody know? Would a guess of 20% be far off the mark?

    The tfr of the Maghreb is just a shade above replacement level. Turkey’s is replacement level. Pakistan’s is higher (3.26) but tanking. The populations of the source countries are just not that fecund.

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    • Replies: @anon
    the honest and relevant stat would be what is their relative tfr when moving as 20-somethings to the west and being provided with housing, free healhcare and education.
    , @5371
    Fake news, especially about Pakistan. You seem to just swallow any figures you are fed, without asking how they were prepared. But then you're an old lag who has been up to this before.
  41. @Anon
    Mr. Derbyshire is far luckier than he thinks. While we must contend with having to live with hordes of Latinos, Blacks, Muslims and the rest of them, he and his Chinese family can move to China and live in a homogeneous environment where none of the above scums are present. Exactly what he notalges for.

    LMFAO! None of the ABOVE scums, but there will be one foreign scum there if he moves…

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  42. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Not sure using dysphemisms like “Paki” actually advances your argument but anyway …

    Look to your own ruling elite for opening the doors to mass immigration. Enoch Powell himself was welcoming immigrants in the ’50s — apparently their labor was needed in Britain at the time (in the same way that Germany needed Turkish “guest workers”). The British political and business elite had no long-term plans on how immigrants were going to fit in to Britain.

    As for immigrants not assimilating — that’s a good ‘un. The problem for second- and third-generation immigrants is that the host population doesn’t want to assimilate them. Fair enough — the host population wasn’t consulted when the immigrants were allowed in. But then, don’t just blame them for the lack of assimilation — it’s not just their fault. The consequence is identity crisis. The second- and third-generation people don’t feel they belong in their host societies — but neither do they belong in the societies their parents or grandparents came from. A recipe for alienation, antagonism, and (occasionally) extremism.

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    • Replies: @Ace
    This video shows Muslim non-assimilation has nothing whatsoever to do with attitudes of the native Britons. The smug bitch with the plummy accent clearly sees Britain as just a place to wipe her feet. The guy is the same.

    She's been involved with UKIP, shmG, which makes you wonder where their hears are.

    https://youtu.be/DHQ8ZQMUpaE
  43. @Boris N
    To refute Bret Stephens (I don't want to mail him) I would say if I was a Japanese I would rather live in a 100-million Japan but where 95% are Japanese than in a 150-million Japan where 50 million (33%) would be gaijins.
    Or from another perspective I (if I was a Japanese) would prefer fewer Japanese but each living better than more Japanese but each living worse. Of course, it would be perfect if there were more Japanese and each lived better, but as natural sources are limited it would be naive to expect impossible. Everything has its limits. Not to mention it would be terrible if there were still fewer Japanese but the overall population would grow or rather be compensated by foreigners but the end result were the diminished Japanese live worse.

    I think these formulas for immigration policy apply to most nations.

    That doesn’t sound so bad. Late 20th-century Japan was very overcrowded. A population drop to 97 million would be good; 50 million would probably be better. The age distribution doesn’t much matter, with modern healthcare and productivity. Once the baby-boomers have died off and it’s these smaller age cohorts that are aging, it will matter even less.
     
    Once I expressed a similar thought about Russia. Quite expectedly I was called a Russophobe. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with raw numbers, like numbers is all that only matters. But important are not the numbers but the people who are hidden under these numbers and how those people live. Paying attention only to numbers and ignoring the people under the numbers is inhumanely utilitarian and totalitarian. It is usually ruthless dictators who care less about living people because they are just statistics for those dictators. The more the masses the bigger their ego. This is why Stalin rejected the 1937 census as "untrue" because they counted too few people while he wanted more people. Today's establishment are less concerned about their ego, but more about the number of sheeple they could shear and exploit. So for them it is indeed a total catastrophe if the number of people they are shearing diminish. So they would rather import people with an absolutely alien race and culture than accept that the population may decline but, as a positive side effect, will still be able to remain racially or culturally stable.

    “Once I expressed a similar thought about Russia. Quite expectedly I was called a Russophobe. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with raw numbers, like numbers is all that only matters…..So they would rather import people with an absolutely alien race and culture than accept that the population may decline but, as a positive side effect, will still be able to remain racially or culturally stable.”

    Russia needs NATURAL population growth (i.e., population growth of the CURRENT NATIVE RUSSIAN POPULATION) – NOT growth by “importing people with an absolutely alien race and culture”. That should be self-explanatory to anyone except an obtuse moron. You claimed that it would be necessary and beneficial for already very sparsely-populated Russia to LOSE one-third of its population and DECLINE to a population of 100,000,000 (with you, yourself, NOT being included in that decline, of course, for some reason….!) It is DEMENTED IDIOCY to think that a desolate, depopulated Russia of only 100,000,000 people distributed over 18,000,000 square km. would have a healthy society or economy, or would be able to protect her borders and territory from the mounting pressures (whether military or “peaceful” migratory) of enemy powers and racial-religious aliens. Russia has many serious ENEMIES who want to destroy, subjugate or break up the Russian state and society, and then move in to take control of Russian territory and resources, if you hadn’t realized – first and foremost, the voracious, Russia-hating U.S. globo-imperialist elites. And for most of Russia’s foes, the low fertility rates and declining population of post-Soviet Russia is a major sign of WEAKNESS AND DECAY, cause for CONTEMPTUOUS GLOATING, and incentive for AGGRESSION – witness, for example, the celebratory crowing of the Russophobic neocon scum “unit472″ earlier on this comment thread.

    Does this make things clearer for your slow and egotistical brain??

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    I do not understand why you are so aggressively sensitive on that matter. Are you Russian? What's your interest? Do you know how Russians live today? Are you aware that Russian cities are overpopulated? That Russians have to live in small apartments in ugly concrete tower blocks? That the Russian climate is the coldest and harshest in the world (except Canada) and hardly bearable? Etc. Yes, Russians do not want to breed like rabbits in that environment just to please your opinion or an opinion of some pseudo-patriotic state officials who need more sheeple or cannon fodder. Just face it.

    Russia needs NATURAL population growth (i.e., population growth of the CURRENT NATIVE RUSSIAN POPULATION) – NOT growth by “importing people with an absolutely alien race and culture”.
     
    You seem to have no idea about the ongoing internal discussion concerning the depopulation. I was writing bearing that in mind. But you simply do not understand.

    with you, yourself, NOT being included in that decline, of course, for some reason….!
     
    What made you draw such a conclusion? You do not seem to be able reading minds. Of course, myself included in that decline. As most Russians of my age I unlikely will have more than 1 or 2 children if any at all. And I would understand my children doing the same. So you see I admit that every new generation would be half the size of the previous one. But at some point in the future the population may stabilize and Russians would start to raise 3 or more children again. But not now.

    a desolate, depopulated Russia of only 100,000,000 people distributed over 18,000,000 square km.
     
    Look how big Russia is! Only mere insignificant 90% have below -10 C in January. And only mere 70% are the "Far North" with -30 C every winter. How couldn't 300 million want to live here? (It's 17m sq km actually, you may divide by 100m by 5m (30%).)

    https://geographyofrussia.com/ocenka-prirodno-geograficheskix-uslovij-dlya-zhizni-naseleniya-i-xozyajstvennoj-deyatelnosti/
    https://geographyofrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/159_1.jpg
    http://demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/095/tema03.php

    You have little understanding of Russian geography, yet have an opinion. Russia is a "small" country. Still, you are always welcome to sunny Siberia, 12 million sq km of bare tundra and taiga are waiting you.

    Russia has many serious ENEMIES who want to destroy, subjugate or break up the Russian state and society, and then move in to take control of Russian territory and resources, if you hadn’t realized
     
    You're paranoid. Most of the Russian elite enjoys their villas and yachts in London, Nice or Miami or whatever NATO country already (except for Putin, maybe, he likes Sochi and now the Crimea). Most resources are owned by Western offshore phoney companies. Russia has been subjugated a long time ago.
  44. Anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Letting in people who are stronger, more aggressive, and so very different than you makes no sense.

    Brits imported black kids to beat up their own white kids. Horrible parenting: Importing foreign kids to beat up native boys and sexually colonize native girls.

    Brits are shi*.

    But Japanese are going the same way because Japanese women hate their own men and increasingly go with foreign men.

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  45. The primary problem in the West in general is that they continue to believe that negroes are fully human.

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  46. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Can you imagine the number of such old photos that will show young whites who turned out to be American\European state sponsored terrorists.

    How about the latest one of whichever cursed fellow who blew up over 200 innocents in Iraq, a few days back.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    "Can you imagine ... young whites who turned out to be American\European state sponsored terrorists.
    Easy. Operation Cast Lead designed by the US-sponsored terrorists : "An Israeli ground invasion began on 3 January. Infantry commanders were given an unprecedented level of access to coordinate with air, naval, artillery, intelligence, and combat engineering units during this second phase. Various new technologies and hardware were also introduced. On 5 January, the IDF began operating in the densely populated urban centers of Gaza. ... The conflict resulted in between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinian [whom 495 were children and 253 women] and 13 Israeli deaths (4 from friendly fire).
    ... Israel controls Gaza's airspace and territorial waters and restricts the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza. The UN, Human Rights Watch and many other international bodies and NGOs consider Israel to be the occupying power." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008–09)
    "Israeli and international human rights organizations accused Israel of using white phosphorus munitions improperly during Israel’s three-week military offensive against Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza in the winter of 2008-9. Such munitions are not prohibited under international law, but they are not supposed to be used in civilian areas, because white phosphorus is highly flammable and, like napalm, it can burn flesh. Israel maintained that its use of shells containing phosphorus did not violate international law." https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/05/03/israels-illegal-use-of-white-phosphorus-during-operation-cast-lead/
  47. @Bill Jones
    It's fucked.

    You don't recognise dry rot when you see it.

    Fortunately for Europe they do have a blue print from Israel that can be adapted to the European framework to help reverse much of the demographic and psychological damage. Of course the probability of this happening is about as likely as finding a three legged ballerina, but if history has taught us anything it is that things can change suddenly.

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  48. @Tom Welsh
    The Americans initiated and lead the "open borders" movement because their wealthy leaders want the world to be homogenous and accessible to their profit-squeezing corporations. Moreover, the USA is the classic "state without a nation"; ALL Americans are immigrants or descended from immigrants, except for the few remaining Native Americans. That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country.

    As for the Japanese birth rate, etc., it has been calculated - using the best available facts, figures, and science - that the maximum population the UK could sustain permanently would be about 16 million. See, for example, https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/sustainable_populations.pdf and https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/overshoot_index.pdf

    The Americans initiated and lead the “open borders” movement because their wealthy leaders want the world to be homogenous and accessible to their profit-squeezing corporations.

    That may have been true at one time but it’s certainly no longer the case. Anyone who’s used Adsense knows that traffic from Africa or MENA is often valued at the tiniest fractions of that from the U.S. or Europe. That’s stone-cold algorithmic, objective analysis, an unappealable and final judgment of the third-world’s book value . And they all know it and understand its implications. It would be a hard sell to convince a rational observer that Larry Page or Zuckerberg actually believe in magic dirt.

    So why do these policies persist?

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  49. Excuses excuses excuses.

    But diversity is our strength – except that science demonstrates it to be weakness.
    Well these people might have experienced racism – everybody has experienced unpleasant interactions.
    Well but only a few people died – any is too many.
    Well but only a few people died – and are the wounded glad?
    Well you can’t stop immigration – unless you choose to.
    But he was a lone wolf – except for the millions of extremists whose movement he joined.
    But he was born here – you can put a shoe in the oven but that don’t make it a biscuit.
    But you can’t deport people – yes we can.
    But deporting people would be racist – how many Jews live in Saudi Arabia?
    But most Muslims are peaceful – most rattlesnakes never hurt anybody but do you want one in your house?
    But your chances of being killed by a terrorist are 3 billion to one – so that means only 3 people in the world have been killed by a terrorist?
    But we aren’t working hard enough to assimilate aliens – untrue look at the billions spent on assimilation.
    But Christians are violent too – like the ones shot by Dylann Roof?
    But keeping Muslims out is just like keeping out the Jews in the 1930s – except that Islamists are not like the Jews, they are like the killers of Jews.
    But it’s not who we are – Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and the like, how many were immigrants from hot countries?
    But USA is fighting in their countries – so are they, two wrongs don’t make a right.
    But the economy needs immigrants – if these people are so productive why is their home country a disaster?
    But what if there’s a backlash? – then it will be well-earned.

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  50. The Brits should have kept the attitude that most persons in the Armed forces had in WW11. They would say what’s wrong with the Yanks is they are overpaid, oversexed and over here.

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    • Replies: @The Dorset Clubman
    "Underpaid,under-sexed and under Eisenhower" was the usual reply about the Brots
  51. But the economy needs immigrants – if these people are so productive why is their home country a disaster?

    Who sez it has anything to do with productivity? Could it be all about profitability?

    Or perhaps they leave because their home country’s been bombed back to the Stone Age by guess who, and anyway they probably are more productive than obese, flatulent, welfare recipients including the corporate and bureaucratic moochers and fraudsters of their adoptive land.

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  52. The Japanese Were Right. The British Were Wrong.

    The Japanese were right since forever. The Germans were right too. So are the Palestinians, no?

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  53. @Boris N
    To refute Bret Stephens (I don't want to mail him) I would say if I was a Japanese I would rather live in a 100-million Japan but where 95% are Japanese than in a 150-million Japan where 50 million (33%) would be gaijins.
    Or from another perspective I (if I was a Japanese) would prefer fewer Japanese but each living better than more Japanese but each living worse. Of course, it would be perfect if there were more Japanese and each lived better, but as natural sources are limited it would be naive to expect impossible. Everything has its limits. Not to mention it would be terrible if there were still fewer Japanese but the overall population would grow or rather be compensated by foreigners but the end result were the diminished Japanese live worse.

    I think these formulas for immigration policy apply to most nations.

    That doesn’t sound so bad. Late 20th-century Japan was very overcrowded. A population drop to 97 million would be good; 50 million would probably be better. The age distribution doesn’t much matter, with modern healthcare and productivity. Once the baby-boomers have died off and it’s these smaller age cohorts that are aging, it will matter even less.
     
    Once I expressed a similar thought about Russia. Quite expectedly I was called a Russophobe. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with raw numbers, like numbers is all that only matters. But important are not the numbers but the people who are hidden under these numbers and how those people live. Paying attention only to numbers and ignoring the people under the numbers is inhumanely utilitarian and totalitarian. It is usually ruthless dictators who care less about living people because they are just statistics for those dictators. The more the masses the bigger their ego. This is why Stalin rejected the 1937 census as "untrue" because they counted too few people while he wanted more people. Today's establishment are less concerned about their ego, but more about the number of sheeple they could shear and exploit. So for them it is indeed a total catastrophe if the number of people they are shearing diminish. So they would rather import people with an absolutely alien race and culture than accept that the population may decline but, as a positive side effect, will still be able to remain racially or culturally stable.

    I will be more concise.
    In ancient history, the person who had the most slaves was the richest.
    Today, the leader of a country who has the most slaves is the richest.

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  54. “That doesn’t sound so bad. Late 20th-century Japan was very overcrowded. A population drop to 97 million would be good; 50 million would probably be better.”

    Precisely. It’s questionable whether Japan could feed 50 million if it had to go it alone. Which is why MITI is reported to be unconcerned about population reduction.

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  55. anonymous says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    From the “Things We’d Like To See But Won’t” Department: a Syrian refugee camp opens up in Chappaqua, NY, across the street from the home of Madame RodhamClintonClintonRodham and the Husband of Record.

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    • Replies: @Inque Yutani
    One thing I'd love to get going is a charity that buys homes in expensive, heavily prog-left areas, and then moves in about 20-30 of the most virulently fundamentalist refugees we can find. Sell them the home for $1 or a baby goat or something.

    Hilarity ensues, both in the prog neighborhoods and in the charity offices where we have baby goats.
  56. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Oldeguy
    "As modern civilization, the Pill and abortion worked there "miracles" on western societies..."
    I find it striking how often the passive voice is used in describing the collapse of White fertility post 1960 in North America and Europe.
    We, not the Blacks, the Asians, the Mexicans, or any other group of Them did us in. All of these "invasions" are a symptom and result of our truly incredible failure of Spirit and Nerve- not its cause.
    Our grand parents and great grand parents who lived incredibly hard lives by current standards would be astounded by our jaw dropping degree of fecklessness and lack of any sense of duty toward those who will come after us.
    A country that took centuries of blood, toil, and sacrifice to build is falling apart before our very eyes and it ain't Them, folks.

    and it ain’t Them, folks.

    which them?

    the borders were opened by the people who dominate the political-media class

    the banking mafia

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  57. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Sunbeam
    What exactly does Britain (or the EU even) get out of a trade deal with India?

    Seems to me it doesn't help Europe at all. Maybe the Germans because Mercedes is seen as a marquee brand for some reason.

    What exactly does Britain (or the EU even) get out of a trade deal with India?

    It’s not Britain it’s the banks.

    They made a deal with India / China a few years back – open UK’s borders / trade in exchange for the banks having free access to the India/China financial sectors.

    The banking mafia are parasites – they sell out their previous victim as a way of ingratiating themselves with their new target.

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  58. @art

    Yes, a seldom mentioned primary solution. Maybe we should stop invading, overthrowing, droning, and bombing their countries. How much terrorism did we xperience from the ME before the Balfour Amendment, Saudi Alliance,Iran/Shah /CIA coup, Iraq War,Libya(protect the civilians) War, Assad Must Go conflict and on and on? No, Islamists are not a particularly desirable people as immigrants, but we should remove ourselves from the ME and the Israeli/Palistinian conundrum and we will see a huge improvement. IMHO.

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    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Maybe we should stop invading, overthrowing, droning, and bombing their countries. How much terrorism did we xperience from the ME before the Balfour Amendment, Saudi Alliance,Iran/Shah /CIA coup, Iraq War,Libya(protect the civilians) War, Assad Must Go conflict and on and on? No, Islamists are not a particularly desirable people as immigrants, but we should remove ourselves from the ME and the Israeli/Palistinian conundrum and we will see a huge improvement. IMHO.
     
    Yep. The British and the Americans and the French spent most of the 20th century making a goddawful mess of the Middle East. They've been enthusiastically invading the world and just as enthusiastically inviting the world. Now they're discovering that there's a price to be paid.

    If Brits want to avoid these problems perhaps they should actually think rather than mindlessly casting their votes for the vile Tories or the equally vile Labour Party. If you keep electing scum like Blair and Cameron and May (and all the ghastly postwar PMs who preceded them) you're going to keep having these problems.
  59. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Art Deco
    The tfr of the Maghreb is just a shade above replacement level. Turkey's is replacement level. Pakistan's is higher (3.26) but tanking. The populations of the source countries are just not that fecund.

    the honest and relevant stat would be what is their relative tfr when moving as 20-somethings to the west and being provided with housing, free healhcare and education.

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  60. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Art Deco
    People who knew Greek-Cypriot culture told me I was lucky to get away with all my parts still attached.

    Cyprus has a homicide rate of 1.1 per 100,000. I doubt there's much honor-driven violence there.


    The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total. You could certainly handle that if you had an elite who favored the natives and which was not bent on marginalizing your common--and-garden wage earners and petit bourgeoisie. It's rude to Britain's West Indian population to lump them in with the Muslim population. The West Indians do not pose much of a challenge, are < 2% of the population as we speak, and now have high rates of inter-marriage.

    Step 1 for a Farage ministry: a bill of attainder exiling the British equivalents of Peter Sutherland. Step 2: statutory legislation which restores freedom of contract and association. Have your immigrant population navigate British society as it emerges from the discretion exercised by people on the ground, without the option of calling in the lawyers. Step 3 reduce state allocation of benefits: statutory legislation providing for liquidation of extant public housing stock and for incremental elimination of residual rent controls. Step 4: limit cash doles for that share of the population which is neither elderly nor disabled to term-limited unemployment compensation (9 months max), term-limited workmen's compensation, and an income tax credit which functions as a wage subsidy at lower income levels. Step 5: have for immigrant populations staged introduction of eligibility for any kind of common provision (including school berths), with 12 years worth of working and paying taxes necessary to be on an equal footing with native British. Step 6: limit the stock of temporary residency permits to a fixed % of the extant native born population, and the flow to a moving average of verified annual departures. Step 7: limit the issuance of settler's visas to a figure derived from a formula which has the fertility deficit and the unemployment rate as arguments. About 85,000 admissions per annum would do given current conditions; have aspirants pass a written and oral English proficiency test, a background check, and a physical. Limit admissions from 25 or 30 problem countries to families with children or to older married couples. Step 8: limit naturalization to people who have been lawful and palpable residents of Britain, Ulster, or the insular dependencies for the majority of their natural life, and require they renounce their previous citizenship in writing (with a notification to the consulate) unless they've been citizens of one of the Queen's other realms or citizens of Ireland). Step 9: limit a menu of state posts to British subjects only, and limit the franchise to sit for civil services examinations and occupational licensing examinations to British subjects or to settler aliens who've been working and paying taxes for a requisite span of years. Step 10: grant children born in Britain to settler-aliens the status of denizen rather than citizen; require they seek naturalization if they want citizenship; allow their children born in Britain to have citizenship at birth.

    Britain is not ruined. It needs spackle work, like most any place human beings live.

    The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total.

    A good tip is whenever someone uses a statistic like this without reference to the age distribution they are arguing in bad faith.

    If you have 100 people from group A with 20% of breeding age and 10 people from group B, all of breeding age then with an equal TFR group B would produce 1/3 of the children.

    If group B had twice the TFR that 10% of the total population would produce 50% of the children.

    This is one way eenemies of western survival e.g. the media, deliberately deceive.

    The West Indians do not pose much of a challenge

    Also not true. Up until 9/11 SJWs were primarily focused on covering up black dysfunction (partly because importing people for cheap labor means you are going to mostly draw from the bottom of the pile). This changed after 9/11.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    See Thos. Sowell and others on this point. Immigrant populations are generally drawn from the more 'entrepreneurial' sector of source country populations. An interesting exception is Puerto Rico, where you have a population that is immigrant in a sociological sense but has an unfettered franchise to migrate. So, no, you're not getting the bottom of the pile. The Department of Work and Pensions in the UK reports disposable household income of British blacks is 68%-78% that of British whites, depending on which measure you use. They're not that poor.
  61. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    good article btw

    Late 20th-century Japan was very overcrowded. A population drop to 97 million would be good; 50 million would probably be better.

    Yes.

    The industrial revolution created a massive demand for factory workers. This was probably dysgenic overall – more so for the countries who industrialized first – but that’s spilt milk.

    All countries should be aiming for lower, higher IQ, technically literate populations.

    You don’t need 100s of millions any more; it’s just a con by greedy oligarchs to drive wages to subsistence.

    #

    also, from that photo he looks like he was always a nasty piece of work

    (to be fair, not the only one in the photo who looks that way – the three behind him on the right all look a bit dangerous – i bet the middle one became a copper)

    Read More
  62. @Carymar
    @art

    Yes, a seldom mentioned primary solution. Maybe we should stop invading, overthrowing, droning, and bombing their countries. How much terrorism did we xperience from the ME before the Balfour Amendment, Saudi Alliance,Iran/Shah /CIA coup, Iraq War,Libya(protect the civilians) War, Assad Must Go conflict and on and on? No, Islamists are not a particularly desirable people as immigrants, but we should remove ourselves from the ME and the Israeli/Palistinian conundrum and we will see a huge improvement. IMHO.

    Maybe we should stop invading, overthrowing, droning, and bombing their countries. How much terrorism did we xperience from the ME before the Balfour Amendment, Saudi Alliance,Iran/Shah /CIA coup, Iraq War,Libya(protect the civilians) War, Assad Must Go conflict and on and on? No, Islamists are not a particularly desirable people as immigrants, but we should remove ourselves from the ME and the Israeli/Palistinian conundrum and we will see a huge improvement. IMHO.

    Yep. The British and the Americans and the French spent most of the 20th century making a goddawful mess of the Middle East. They’ve been enthusiastically invading the world and just as enthusiastically inviting the world. Now they’re discovering that there’s a price to be paid.

    If Brits want to avoid these problems perhaps they should actually think rather than mindlessly casting their votes for the vile Tories or the equally vile Labour Party. If you keep electing scum like Blair and Cameron and May (and all the ghastly postwar PMs who preceded them) you’re going to keep having these problems.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I don't think you have a good sense of the timing of events. The Brits tried to stop "inviting the world" in the late 60s but never got round to working out a long term workable immigration, extended stay and working visa system, partly out of their PC problems.
  63. @Tom Welsh
    The Americans initiated and lead the "open borders" movement because their wealthy leaders want the world to be homogenous and accessible to their profit-squeezing corporations. Moreover, the USA is the classic "state without a nation"; ALL Americans are immigrants or descended from immigrants, except for the few remaining Native Americans. That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country.

    As for the Japanese birth rate, etc., it has been calculated - using the best available facts, figures, and science - that the maximum population the UK could sustain permanently would be about 16 million. See, for example, https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/sustainable_populations.pdf and https://www.populationmatters.org/documents/overshoot_index.pdf

    Re: “That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country.”

    You paint with a rather broad brush. The “open borders” movement of which you speak is simply a form of globalism, an ideology which calls no particular western nation home – but instead a variety of them. Ordinary Americans, like their counterparts in places like Britain, never wanted globalism, never wanted their homelands and communities to resemble the United Nations. Rather, it was the elites – the ruling class – who forced these things upon us – and continue to do so right up to the present day.

    If you want to study a prototypical globalist, examine the obituaries from a week or two ago, when one of the world’s richest men, David Rockefeller, died at age 101. He was lecturing and giving talks about globalism as long ago as the 1950s. Rockefeller was an American, but he had – and has – counterparts in every western nation of any consequence. In Great Britain, no less than Prince Charles himself has drunk the politically-correct, multicultural and globalist Kool-Aid of the cultural Marxists, to such an extent he sounds like an advertisement for the movement every time he opens his mouth. Merkel in Germany, Trudeau in Canada, the list goes on and on.

    By the way, one of the reasons Vladimir Putin is so hated by certain segments of the western ruling class is that he explicitly rejects globalism and all of the politically-correct baggage that accompanies it. The nerve of the guy – wanting to live in a Russia for Russians!

    It should also be noted that the mass invasion of the west via third-world immigration has not occurred by chance, but rather is the result of a specific mindset and set of decisions reached by the ruling classes, who have taken it upon themselves to remodel the entirety of western civilization without popular consent or anything resembling a political mandate. That includes the current invasion of Europe by the Islamic hordes, now taking place under the politically-correct euphemism of disaster-relief for refugees.

    The Muslims even have a specific term for conquest via immigration – it is termed the hegira. Undertaking hegira is considered a sacred duty within orthodox Islam, because – by doing it – the believer (shahid) is emulating the example of Mohammed himself.

    Significant portions of Great Britain are already living under sharia law, or what amounts to it. When Muslims enforce no-go zones for non-Muslims, or bring traffic to a stop so they can pray towards Mecca, they are enforcing sharia. They are doing the same when they pressure employers to ban the eating of non-halal foods, such as pork.

    The popular mainstream media are a lousy source, by the way, for genuine information about Islam. Almost all of the MSM is tainted and/or coopted and can’t be trusted. Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it.

    Cheers – and happy reading!

    Read More
    • Replies: @dfordoom

    Rather, it was the elites – the ruling class – who forced these things upon us – and continue to do so right up to the present day.
     
    You don't think that a large number of ordinary Americans have a bit of a tendency to want to impose their values on the rest of the world? You don't think that a large proportion of ordinary Americans think that the American way of doing things is automatically the right way and that the rest of the world should conform to American ideas?

    It seems to me that the elites haven't had much trouble persuading average Americans to support the project of turning the world into the American Empire.
    , @Стивен
    VVP never talks about Russia for Russians. He almost always uses the term Rossianiy - citizens or inhabitants of Russia. Russkiy may be the largest ethnic group in Russia, but they are one of about 180. He is loved and respected as the President of ALL the Russians.
    , @Corvinus
    "Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it."

    You mean find sources that confirm your own biases on the matter. No difference then when the media reports their own version of "truth".
  64. @Sandpiper
    The Brits should have kept the attitude that most persons in the Armed forces had in WW11. They would say what's wrong with the Yanks is they are overpaid, oversexed and over here.

    “Underpaid,under-sexed and under Eisenhower” was the usual reply about the Brots

    Read More
  65. @Georgiaboy61
    Re: "That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country."

    You paint with a rather broad brush. The "open borders" movement of which you speak is simply a form of globalism, an ideology which calls no particular western nation home - but instead a variety of them. Ordinary Americans, like their counterparts in places like Britain, never wanted globalism, never wanted their homelands and communities to resemble the United Nations. Rather, it was the elites - the ruling class - who forced these things upon us - and continue to do so right up to the present day.

    If you want to study a prototypical globalist, examine the obituaries from a week or two ago, when one of the world's richest men, David Rockefeller, died at age 101. He was lecturing and giving talks about globalism as long ago as the 1950s. Rockefeller was an American, but he had - and has - counterparts in every western nation of any consequence. In Great Britain, no less than Prince Charles himself has drunk the politically-correct, multicultural and globalist Kool-Aid of the cultural Marxists, to such an extent he sounds like an advertisement for the movement every time he opens his mouth. Merkel in Germany, Trudeau in Canada, the list goes on and on.

    By the way, one of the reasons Vladimir Putin is so hated by certain segments of the western ruling class is that he explicitly rejects globalism and all of the politically-correct baggage that accompanies it. The nerve of the guy - wanting to live in a Russia for Russians!

    It should also be noted that the mass invasion of the west via third-world immigration has not occurred by chance, but rather is the result of a specific mindset and set of decisions reached by the ruling classes, who have taken it upon themselves to remodel the entirety of western civilization without popular consent or anything resembling a political mandate. That includes the current invasion of Europe by the Islamic hordes, now taking place under the politically-correct euphemism of disaster-relief for refugees.

    The Muslims even have a specific term for conquest via immigration - it is termed the hegira. Undertaking hegira is considered a sacred duty within orthodox Islam, because - by doing it - the believer (shahid) is emulating the example of Mohammed himself.

    Significant portions of Great Britain are already living under sharia law, or what amounts to it. When Muslims enforce no-go zones for non-Muslims, or bring traffic to a stop so they can pray towards Mecca, they are enforcing sharia. They are doing the same when they pressure employers to ban the eating of non-halal foods, such as pork.

    The popular mainstream media are a lousy source, by the way, for genuine information about Islam. Almost all of the MSM is tainted and/or coopted and can't be trusted. Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it.

    Cheers - and happy reading!

    Rather, it was the elites – the ruling class – who forced these things upon us – and continue to do so right up to the present day.

    You don’t think that a large number of ordinary Americans have a bit of a tendency to want to impose their values on the rest of the world? You don’t think that a large proportion of ordinary Americans think that the American way of doing things is automatically the right way and that the rest of the world should conform to American ideas?

    It seems to me that the elites haven’t had much trouble persuading average Americans to support the project of turning the world into the American Empire.

    Read More
  66. The fellow is no different from his predessors as Kim Philby and the Oxford bunch who embraced Socialist/communist dogma and propaganda! We act as if he was the first and pretend the abomination started with him. How brillaint?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Pardon me for thinking your comment is so ill informed, as well as unclear, as to be a waste of space. Presumably "the fellow" you refer to is the black skinned British Muslim convert who made a suicidal attack with car and knives. How are 1930s to 50s upper middle class white Communists - or any whites - his predecessors? That you are just plucking nonsensical glimmers of the half-remembered and not at all understood from a mental fog is shown by your reference to Oxford. Have you no idea how famous the Cambridge Five were (Philby, Maclean, Burgess, Blunt, Cairncross)?
  67. > Is that a verb, “nostalge”?

    isn’t that a reflexive verb?

    Pretty typical around here (I guess like everywhere) is to directly grab the foreign word, then to forcefit it into our system of grammar: “derbyshire mitNostalge about the old days”

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  68. @Art Deco
    The tfr of the Maghreb is just a shade above replacement level. Turkey's is replacement level. Pakistan's is higher (3.26) but tanking. The populations of the source countries are just not that fecund.

    Fake news, especially about Pakistan. You seem to just swallow any figures you are fed, without asking how they were prepared. But then you’re an old lag who has been up to this before.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The figures are from the World Bank. You can make up different numbers if it helps you feel better. Just be sure to discuss them with people who are patient with your fantasies.
  69. John, one day in 1949 when I was in primary school in Leeds, I took my usual route home through Cross Flatts park and I saw a black man.
    When I arrived home;
    Me: Mum, I saw a black man in the park.
    Mum: Oh he’s probably here on holiday.

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  70. @dfordoom

    Maybe we should stop invading, overthrowing, droning, and bombing their countries. How much terrorism did we xperience from the ME before the Balfour Amendment, Saudi Alliance,Iran/Shah /CIA coup, Iraq War,Libya(protect the civilians) War, Assad Must Go conflict and on and on? No, Islamists are not a particularly desirable people as immigrants, but we should remove ourselves from the ME and the Israeli/Palistinian conundrum and we will see a huge improvement. IMHO.
     
    Yep. The British and the Americans and the French spent most of the 20th century making a goddawful mess of the Middle East. They've been enthusiastically invading the world and just as enthusiastically inviting the world. Now they're discovering that there's a price to be paid.

    If Brits want to avoid these problems perhaps they should actually think rather than mindlessly casting their votes for the vile Tories or the equally vile Labour Party. If you keep electing scum like Blair and Cameron and May (and all the ghastly postwar PMs who preceded them) you're going to keep having these problems.

    I don’t think you have a good sense of the timing of events. The Brits tried to stop “inviting the world” in the late 60s but never got round to working out a long term workable immigration, extended stay and working visa system, partly out of their PC problems.

    Read More
  71. @jack shindo
    The fellow is no different from his predessors as Kim Philby and the Oxford bunch who embraced Socialist/communist dogma and propaganda! We act as if he was the first and pretend the abomination started with him. How brillaint?

    Pardon me for thinking your comment is so ill informed, as well as unclear, as to be a waste of space. Presumably “the fellow” you refer to is the black skinned British Muslim convert who made a suicidal attack with car and knives. How are 1930s to 50s upper middle class white Communists – or any whites – his predecessors? That you are just plucking nonsensical glimmers of the half-remembered and not at all understood from a mental fog is shown by your reference to Oxford. Have you no idea how famous the Cambridge Five were (Philby, Maclean, Burgess, Blunt, Cairncross)?

    Read More
  72. Masood actually illustrates a thesis I’ve been arguing for years: that it’s not the first generation of immigrants you need to worry about so much as the second and subsequent generations.

    Well, no. I agree with your thesis, but “Masood” aka Adrian Elms does not illustrate that thesis. He is not a “second-generation” immigrant, he has an English mother, and probably never knew his birth father. He is basically English, for better or worse. He illustrates another problem with militant Islam, which is that it is increasingly becoming an ideology for disaffected natives who hate themselves and their own kin. We see this increasingly in continental Europe as well. Since Socialism has pretty much failed, Islam is filling the void as an ideology for losers who just want to lash out.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal
    What you write about islam being the go to ideology at the moment for the disaffected of the world is true, up to a point, and imo it was the failure of the previous such ideologies of socialism and nationalism to solve the problems of muslim countries in the mid-late C20th that led to the rise of modern Islamism and jihadism (along with, course, their promotion by powerful groups such as the US in Afghanistan, Israel as a tool to break the PLO, and the Gulf sheiks for their own purposes).

    However, I do not think it is correct to dismiss the application of Derbyshire's thesis to this case as you do. The perpetrator was not basically English, because he was racially distinct by virtue of being black, and raised by a father of Nigerian extraction (hence his childhood surname Ajao). It's to all intents certain that his genetic father was an immigrant, and also that the husband of his mother was an immigrant, first or second generation.

    Had he not been identifiably black, the overwhelming likelihood is that he would not have chosen islam to express his alienation.

    Though there will surely be increasing numbers of cases of white indigenes choosing islam to express alienation, that in itself is a result directly of the presence of large numbers of immigrants and their descendants in the country.

    Derbyshire's thesis clearly applies in this case.
    , @anon

    He is not a “second-generation” immigrant, he has an English mother, and probably never knew his birth father.
     
    He is absolutely a 2nd generation immigrant.

    Importing low IQ people to be cheap labor means their children will sit at the bottom of society many getting involved in petty crime.

    If this population includes a lot of Muslims then the prisons will eventually become dominated by jihadists.

    This creates a conveyor belt for petty criminals to become jihadists as atonement for their sins.

    For the people who simply want to see Europe and Europeans destroyed this is a good thing but those who just want cheap labor should think again.
  73. @Peter Akuleyev

    Masood actually illustrates a thesis I’ve been arguing for years: that it’s not the first generation of immigrants you need to worry about so much as the second and subsequent generations.
     
    Well, no. I agree with your thesis, but "Masood" aka Adrian Elms does not illustrate that thesis. He is not a "second-generation" immigrant, he has an English mother, and probably never knew his birth father. He is basically English, for better or worse. He illustrates another problem with militant Islam, which is that it is increasingly becoming an ideology for disaffected natives who hate themselves and their own kin. We see this increasingly in continental Europe as well. Since Socialism has pretty much failed, Islam is filling the void as an ideology for losers who just want to lash out.

    What you write about islam being the go to ideology at the moment for the disaffected of the world is true, up to a point, and imo it was the failure of the previous such ideologies of socialism and nationalism to solve the problems of muslim countries in the mid-late C20th that led to the rise of modern Islamism and jihadism (along with, course, their promotion by powerful groups such as the US in Afghanistan, Israel as a tool to break the PLO, and the Gulf sheiks for their own purposes).

    However, I do not think it is correct to dismiss the application of Derbyshire’s thesis to this case as you do. The perpetrator was not basically English, because he was racially distinct by virtue of being black, and raised by a father of Nigerian extraction (hence his childhood surname Ajao). It’s to all intents certain that his genetic father was an immigrant, and also that the husband of his mother was an immigrant, first or second generation.

    Had he not been identifiably black, the overwhelming likelihood is that he would not have chosen islam to express his alienation.

    Though there will surely be increasing numbers of cases of white indigenes choosing islam to express alienation, that in itself is a result directly of the presence of large numbers of immigrants and their descendants in the country.

    Derbyshire’s thesis clearly applies in this case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his "father of Nigerian extraction" probably did not play a large role in the boy's upbringing.

    I am sure Adrian's skin color did play a role in his becoming disaffected. Still, to me Derbyshire's absimilation thesis is better applied to the countless examples of well-behaved, hard working Pakistani immigrants (or Mexican in the US, or Turkish in Germany) whose children or grand-children become criminals. In Adrian's case there is also no evidence his father, whoever he was, was an exemplar of the "good immigrant". Adrian's father may not have been an immigrant at all, maybe a student or a short-term worker for all we know.
  74. @Randal
    What you write about islam being the go to ideology at the moment for the disaffected of the world is true, up to a point, and imo it was the failure of the previous such ideologies of socialism and nationalism to solve the problems of muslim countries in the mid-late C20th that led to the rise of modern Islamism and jihadism (along with, course, their promotion by powerful groups such as the US in Afghanistan, Israel as a tool to break the PLO, and the Gulf sheiks for their own purposes).

    However, I do not think it is correct to dismiss the application of Derbyshire's thesis to this case as you do. The perpetrator was not basically English, because he was racially distinct by virtue of being black, and raised by a father of Nigerian extraction (hence his childhood surname Ajao). It's to all intents certain that his genetic father was an immigrant, and also that the husband of his mother was an immigrant, first or second generation.

    Had he not been identifiably black, the overwhelming likelihood is that he would not have chosen islam to express his alienation.

    Though there will surely be increasing numbers of cases of white indigenes choosing islam to express alienation, that in itself is a result directly of the presence of large numbers of immigrants and their descendants in the country.

    Derbyshire's thesis clearly applies in this case.

    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his “father of Nigerian extraction” probably did not play a large role in the boy’s upbringing.

    I am sure Adrian’s skin color did play a role in his becoming disaffected. Still, to me Derbyshire’s absimilation thesis is better applied to the countless examples of well-behaved, hard working Pakistani immigrants (or Mexican in the US, or Turkish in Germany) whose children or grand-children become criminals. In Adrian’s case there is also no evidence his father, whoever he was, was an exemplar of the “good immigrant”. Adrian’s father may not have been an immigrant at all, maybe a student or a short-term worker for all we know.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Randal

    Still, to me Derbyshire’s absimilation thesis is better applied to the countless examples of well-behaved, hard working Pakistani immigrants (or Mexican in the US, or Turkish in Germany) whose children or grand-children become criminals.
     
    That's a fair point in itself, but I still think it can be applied more broadly, including to this case.

    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his “father of Nigerian extraction” probably did not play a large role in the boy’s upbringing.
     
    I get the impression from the reporting that the Nigerian Philip Ajao is still married to Adrian's mother and was present throughout.

    Adrian’s father may not have been an immigrant at all, maybe a student or a short-term worker for all we know.
     
    A distinction without a difference here, I think.
    , @Art Deco
    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his “father of Nigerian extraction” probably did not play a large role in the boy’s upbringing.

    His mother and Phillip Ajao are still married and living in Wales.
  75. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Just had a WTF moment. I’d always had a gut level antipathy to the current GBR home sec Amber Rudd. Looked her wiki – totally justified – she had a relationship with a black-as-the-ace-of-spades dindu MP. Am I the only one who feels uneasy with that sort of weak minded mudshark having access to secure info?

    Read More
  76. @Peter Akuleyev
    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his "father of Nigerian extraction" probably did not play a large role in the boy's upbringing.

    I am sure Adrian's skin color did play a role in his becoming disaffected. Still, to me Derbyshire's absimilation thesis is better applied to the countless examples of well-behaved, hard working Pakistani immigrants (or Mexican in the US, or Turkish in Germany) whose children or grand-children become criminals. In Adrian's case there is also no evidence his father, whoever he was, was an exemplar of the "good immigrant". Adrian's father may not have been an immigrant at all, maybe a student or a short-term worker for all we know.

    Still, to me Derbyshire’s absimilation thesis is better applied to the countless examples of well-behaved, hard working Pakistani immigrants (or Mexican in the US, or Turkish in Germany) whose children or grand-children become criminals.

    That’s a fair point in itself, but I still think it can be applied more broadly, including to this case.

    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his “father of Nigerian extraction” probably did not play a large role in the boy’s upbringing.

    I get the impression from the reporting that the Nigerian Philip Ajao is still married to Adrian’s mother and was present throughout.

    Adrian’s father may not have been an immigrant at all, maybe a student or a short-term worker for all we know.

    A distinction without a difference here, I think.

    Read More
  77. @Georgiaboy61
    Re: "That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country."

    You paint with a rather broad brush. The "open borders" movement of which you speak is simply a form of globalism, an ideology which calls no particular western nation home - but instead a variety of them. Ordinary Americans, like their counterparts in places like Britain, never wanted globalism, never wanted their homelands and communities to resemble the United Nations. Rather, it was the elites - the ruling class - who forced these things upon us - and continue to do so right up to the present day.

    If you want to study a prototypical globalist, examine the obituaries from a week or two ago, when one of the world's richest men, David Rockefeller, died at age 101. He was lecturing and giving talks about globalism as long ago as the 1950s. Rockefeller was an American, but he had - and has - counterparts in every western nation of any consequence. In Great Britain, no less than Prince Charles himself has drunk the politically-correct, multicultural and globalist Kool-Aid of the cultural Marxists, to such an extent he sounds like an advertisement for the movement every time he opens his mouth. Merkel in Germany, Trudeau in Canada, the list goes on and on.

    By the way, one of the reasons Vladimir Putin is so hated by certain segments of the western ruling class is that he explicitly rejects globalism and all of the politically-correct baggage that accompanies it. The nerve of the guy - wanting to live in a Russia for Russians!

    It should also be noted that the mass invasion of the west via third-world immigration has not occurred by chance, but rather is the result of a specific mindset and set of decisions reached by the ruling classes, who have taken it upon themselves to remodel the entirety of western civilization without popular consent or anything resembling a political mandate. That includes the current invasion of Europe by the Islamic hordes, now taking place under the politically-correct euphemism of disaster-relief for refugees.

    The Muslims even have a specific term for conquest via immigration - it is termed the hegira. Undertaking hegira is considered a sacred duty within orthodox Islam, because - by doing it - the believer (shahid) is emulating the example of Mohammed himself.

    Significant portions of Great Britain are already living under sharia law, or what amounts to it. When Muslims enforce no-go zones for non-Muslims, or bring traffic to a stop so they can pray towards Mecca, they are enforcing sharia. They are doing the same when they pressure employers to ban the eating of non-halal foods, such as pork.

    The popular mainstream media are a lousy source, by the way, for genuine information about Islam. Almost all of the MSM is tainted and/or coopted and can't be trusted. Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it.

    Cheers - and happy reading!

    VVP never talks about Russia for Russians. He almost always uses the term Rossianiy – citizens or inhabitants of Russia. Russkiy may be the largest ethnic group in Russia, but they are one of about 180. He is loved and respected as the President of ALL the Russians.

    Read More
  78. @Georgiaboy61
    Re: "That being the case, and thinking the way they do, Americans want the rest of the world to become like their country."

    You paint with a rather broad brush. The "open borders" movement of which you speak is simply a form of globalism, an ideology which calls no particular western nation home - but instead a variety of them. Ordinary Americans, like their counterparts in places like Britain, never wanted globalism, never wanted their homelands and communities to resemble the United Nations. Rather, it was the elites - the ruling class - who forced these things upon us - and continue to do so right up to the present day.

    If you want to study a prototypical globalist, examine the obituaries from a week or two ago, when one of the world's richest men, David Rockefeller, died at age 101. He was lecturing and giving talks about globalism as long ago as the 1950s. Rockefeller was an American, but he had - and has - counterparts in every western nation of any consequence. In Great Britain, no less than Prince Charles himself has drunk the politically-correct, multicultural and globalist Kool-Aid of the cultural Marxists, to such an extent he sounds like an advertisement for the movement every time he opens his mouth. Merkel in Germany, Trudeau in Canada, the list goes on and on.

    By the way, one of the reasons Vladimir Putin is so hated by certain segments of the western ruling class is that he explicitly rejects globalism and all of the politically-correct baggage that accompanies it. The nerve of the guy - wanting to live in a Russia for Russians!

    It should also be noted that the mass invasion of the west via third-world immigration has not occurred by chance, but rather is the result of a specific mindset and set of decisions reached by the ruling classes, who have taken it upon themselves to remodel the entirety of western civilization without popular consent or anything resembling a political mandate. That includes the current invasion of Europe by the Islamic hordes, now taking place under the politically-correct euphemism of disaster-relief for refugees.

    The Muslims even have a specific term for conquest via immigration - it is termed the hegira. Undertaking hegira is considered a sacred duty within orthodox Islam, because - by doing it - the believer (shahid) is emulating the example of Mohammed himself.

    Significant portions of Great Britain are already living under sharia law, or what amounts to it. When Muslims enforce no-go zones for non-Muslims, or bring traffic to a stop so they can pray towards Mecca, they are enforcing sharia. They are doing the same when they pressure employers to ban the eating of non-halal foods, such as pork.

    The popular mainstream media are a lousy source, by the way, for genuine information about Islam. Almost all of the MSM is tainted and/or coopted and can't be trusted. Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it.

    Cheers - and happy reading!

    “Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it.”

    You mean find sources that confirm your own biases on the matter. No difference then when the media reports their own version of “truth”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    That's very easy to test.

    Everyone should read the Koran and see if it explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of a legitimate jihad (where legitimate is defined as being called by a legitimate authority).

    Then everyone would see if it's the media, the politicians, mulim apologists online and people like you are lying through their teeth or whether it's the "islamophobes" who are lying.
  79. I don’t mind there being others around, and in fact think it’s a healthy thing—salt in the stew.

    And that’s the attitude America used to have before massive third world immigration. The motivation with the “waves of immigration” approach – it ultimately became a way to replace all the white people who’d stolen the land from the Indians and kept all of those black slaves.

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  80. Is it too late to get Britain back to the Derbistan ideal? My guess would be that it probably is. The place—that’s what it is now: a place, not a country—the place is irrevocably wrecked.
    What a load of shit. I lived in London for 3 years (85 to 89) If you are diluting your nations identity, you are also getting an easy life in exchange. So much money coming in due to tourism and rentier economy. And who is responsible for the massacre and starvation in Yemen? Its you and your country and USA. What is Saudi, UAE, Qatar? Aren’t they just some gangsta enterprises set up by britain and usa?
    The internet has let the genie out of the bottle. Propaganda will just not work.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    And who is responsible for the massacre and starvation in Yemen?

    Yemenis fighting over the things Yemenis do. The country has had multiple insurrections throughout the postwar period. Its former President likened governing tne country to 'dancing on the heads of snakes'.


    What is Saudi, UAE, Qatar? Aren’t they just some gangsta enterprises set up by britain and usa?

    No, they are not. While we're at it, the ruling dynasties in the Gulf date from 1802-33 and antedate any American presence outside the Western hemisphere by three generations and antedate the institution of British protectorates by two.
  81. @Johann
    Tyberim sanguine magno spumentem cerno.

    Enoch Powell. 1968

    Which is why the dear boy, when Minister of Health, brought in 3000 nurses from the Carrybeehan — to donate the blood, or staunch it, or let it — no-one knows. His formative wartime experience was Pongo officer out East, down India way, which, again, is why he had not been sensitised to the other lot, a blind spot? Put not your faith in Classics professors, rather cleave to dog Latinists like Bonkers.

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  82. If you are diluting your nations identity, you are also getting an easy life in exchange. So much money coming in due to tourism and rentier economy.

    Who’s getting an easy life? Certainly not the same British people who are carrying most of the costs of mass immigration.

    You need to be more careful in the targeting with that “you” you sling about.

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  83. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    Pakis are hated more than blacks as people know blacks are just primitive retards who are (((elite))) pawns, whereas pakis are a nasty, sneaky, cheap, aggressive bunch of ugly third world scum. Our currentaypr is an uglu paki midget who said London Transport has too many White Men. Err, we made the city, nasty sadiq kahnt.

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  84. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Corvinus
    "Do your own research and learn the truth about Islam, globalism and all the rest of it."

    You mean find sources that confirm your own biases on the matter. No difference then when the media reports their own version of "truth".

    That’s very easy to test.

    Everyone should read the Koran and see if it explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of a legitimate jihad (where legitimate is defined as being called by a legitimate authority).

    Then everyone would see if it’s the media, the politicians, mulim apologists online and people like you are lying through their teeth or whether it’s the “islamophobes” who are lying.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Everyone should read the Koran and see if it explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of a legitimate jihad (where legitimate is defined as being called by a legitimate authority)."

    The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.

    "Then everyone would see if it’s the media, the politicians, mulim apologists online and people like you are lying through their teeth or whether it’s the “islamophobes” who are lying."

    Those Islamic fundamentalists who read the Koran in that perverted view are denigrating that faith.
  85. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Masood actually illustrates a thesis I’ve been arguing for years: that it’s not the first generation of immigrants you need to worry about so much as the second and subsequent generations.
     
    Well, no. I agree with your thesis, but "Masood" aka Adrian Elms does not illustrate that thesis. He is not a "second-generation" immigrant, he has an English mother, and probably never knew his birth father. He is basically English, for better or worse. He illustrates another problem with militant Islam, which is that it is increasingly becoming an ideology for disaffected natives who hate themselves and their own kin. We see this increasingly in continental Europe as well. Since Socialism has pretty much failed, Islam is filling the void as an ideology for losers who just want to lash out.

    He is not a “second-generation” immigrant, he has an English mother, and probably never knew his birth father.

    He is absolutely a 2nd generation immigrant.

    Importing low IQ people to be cheap labor means their children will sit at the bottom of society many getting involved in petty crime.

    If this population includes a lot of Muslims then the prisons will eventually become dominated by jihadists.

    This creates a conveyor belt for petty criminals to become jihadists as atonement for their sins.

    For the people who simply want to see Europe and Europeans destroyed this is a good thing but those who just want cheap labor should think again.

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  86. @Peter Akuleyev
    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his "father of Nigerian extraction" probably did not play a large role in the boy's upbringing.

    I am sure Adrian's skin color did play a role in his becoming disaffected. Still, to me Derbyshire's absimilation thesis is better applied to the countless examples of well-behaved, hard working Pakistani immigrants (or Mexican in the US, or Turkish in Germany) whose children or grand-children become criminals. In Adrian's case there is also no evidence his father, whoever he was, was an exemplar of the "good immigrant". Adrian's father may not have been an immigrant at all, maybe a student or a short-term worker for all we know.

    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his “father of Nigerian extraction” probably did not play a large role in the boy’s upbringing.

    His mother and Phillip Ajao are still married and living in Wales.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Alden
    Philip Ajai is not the biological father. He adopted Adrian age two when he married the Mother.

    Adrian is 52. I doubt his parents have anything to do with his conversion to Islam and terrorism.
  87. @5371
    Fake news, especially about Pakistan. You seem to just swallow any figures you are fed, without asking how they were prepared. But then you're an old lag who has been up to this before.

    The figures are from the World Bank. You can make up different numbers if it helps you feel better. Just be sure to discuss them with people who are patient with your fantasies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Thanks for confirming that you are incapable of judging a book other than by its cover, or even of conceiving another criterion. The slightest knowledge of demography, plus checking census results, would have taught you that figure for Pakistan is impossible. Those for the other countries are closer to the truth but equally rest on no adequate basis.
  88. @anon

    The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total.
     
    A good tip is whenever someone uses a statistic like this without reference to the age distribution they are arguing in bad faith.

    If you have 100 people from group A with 20% of breeding age and 10 people from group B, all of breeding age then with an equal TFR group B would produce 1/3 of the children.

    If group B had twice the TFR that 10% of the total population would produce 50% of the children.

    This is one way eenemies of western survival e.g. the media, deliberately deceive.

    The West Indians do not pose much of a challenge
     
    Also not true. Up until 9/11 SJWs were primarily focused on covering up black dysfunction (partly because importing people for cheap labor means you are going to mostly draw from the bottom of the pile). This changed after 9/11.

    See Thos. Sowell and others on this point. Immigrant populations are generally drawn from the more ‘entrepreneurial’ sector of source country populations. An interesting exception is Puerto Rico, where you have a population that is immigrant in a sociological sense but has an unfettered franchise to migrate. So, no, you’re not getting the bottom of the pile. The Department of Work and Pensions in the UK reports disposable household income of British blacks is 68%-78% that of British whites, depending on which measure you use. They’re not that poor.

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    • Replies: @anon
    I'm going to ignore your chaff and just repeat the model so people can decide for themselves if it fits the facts (as they become increasingly obvious over time).

    1. import low IQ people for cheap labor (low relative to the native average)

    2. their kids sit at the bottom getting bitter - which mostly presents as petty crime

    3. if this process includes lots of muslims you end up with jihadists dominating the jails

    4. this leads to petty criminals (of whatever original background) waging jihad as a way of atoning for their sins / catharsis

    The end result of this process will be Islamic versions of 1970's Belfast in every Western city.
  89. You have some systemic problems which arrive from immigration streams. However, this case is not a good example of that. This is more someone who misbehaves for all the idiosyncratic reasons people do.

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  90. @Rev. Spooner
    Is it too late to get Britain back to the Derbistan ideal? My guess would be that it probably is. The place—that’s what it is now: a place, not a country—the place is irrevocably wrecked.
    What a load of shit. I lived in London for 3 years (85 to 89) If you are diluting your nations identity, you are also getting an easy life in exchange. So much money coming in due to tourism and rentier economy. And who is responsible for the massacre and starvation in Yemen? Its you and your country and USA. What is Saudi, UAE, Qatar? Aren't they just some gangsta enterprises set up by britain and usa?
    The internet has let the genie out of the bottle. Propaganda will just not work.

    And who is responsible for the massacre and starvation in Yemen?

    Yemenis fighting over the things Yemenis do. The country has had multiple insurrections throughout the postwar period. Its former President likened governing tne country to ‘dancing on the heads of snakes’.

    What is Saudi, UAE, Qatar? Aren’t they just some gangsta enterprises set up by britain and usa?

    No, they are not. While we’re at it, the ruling dynasties in the Gulf date from 1802-33 and antedate any American presence outside the Western hemisphere by three generations and antedate the institution of British protectorates by two.

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  91. @anonymous
    Can you imagine the number of such old photos that will show young whites who turned out to be American\European state sponsored terrorists.

    How about the latest one of whichever cursed fellow who blew up over 200 innocents in Iraq, a few days back.

    “Can you imagine … young whites who turned out to be American\European state sponsored terrorists.
    Easy. Operation Cast Lead designed by the US-sponsored terrorists : “An Israeli ground invasion began on 3 January. Infantry commanders were given an unprecedented level of access to coordinate with air, naval, artillery, intelligence, and combat engineering units during this second phase. Various new technologies and hardware were also introduced. On 5 January, the IDF began operating in the densely populated urban centers of Gaza. … The conflict resulted in between 1,166 and 1,417 Palestinian [whom 495 were children and 253 women] and 13 Israeli deaths (4 from friendly fire).
    … Israel controls Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and restricts the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza. The UN, Human Rights Watch and many other international bodies and NGOs consider Israel to be the occupying power.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_War_(2008–09)
    “Israeli and international human rights organizations accused Israel of using white phosphorus munitions improperly during Israel’s three-week military offensive against Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza in the winter of 2008-9. Such munitions are not prohibited under international law, but they are not supposed to be used in civilian areas, because white phosphorus is highly flammable and, like napalm, it can burn flesh. Israel maintained that its use of shells containing phosphorus did not violate international law.” https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2013/05/03/israels-illegal-use-of-white-phosphorus-during-operation-cast-lead/

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  92. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Art Deco
    See Thos. Sowell and others on this point. Immigrant populations are generally drawn from the more 'entrepreneurial' sector of source country populations. An interesting exception is Puerto Rico, where you have a population that is immigrant in a sociological sense but has an unfettered franchise to migrate. So, no, you're not getting the bottom of the pile. The Department of Work and Pensions in the UK reports disposable household income of British blacks is 68%-78% that of British whites, depending on which measure you use. They're not that poor.

    I’m going to ignore your chaff and just repeat the model so people can decide for themselves if it fits the facts (as they become increasingly obvious over time).

    1. import low IQ people for cheap labor (low relative to the native average)

    2. their kids sit at the bottom getting bitter – which mostly presents as petty crime

    3. if this process includes lots of muslims you end up with jihadists dominating the jails

    4. this leads to petty criminals (of whatever original background) waging jihad as a way of atoning for their sins / catharsis

    The end result of this process will be Islamic versions of 1970′s Belfast in every Western city.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I’m going to ignore your chaff and just repeat the model so people can decide for themselves if it fits the facts (as they become increasingly obvious over time).

    You actually have to offer some facts if you're going to persuade someone outside the little box you've climbed into.
  93. @Art Deco
    I am going to take a wild leap of the imagination, and guess that his “father of Nigerian extraction” probably did not play a large role in the boy’s upbringing.

    His mother and Phillip Ajao are still married and living in Wales.

    Philip Ajai is not the biological father. He adopted Adrian age two when he married the Mother.

    Adrian is 52. I doubt his parents have anything to do with his conversion to Islam and terrorism.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Phillip Ajao is man of Nigerian extraction in his family. As far as I'm aware, the deceased's sire has not been identified. Since Phillip Ajao has been present in the family since 1966, I don't think paternal absence is much of an issue in influencing this man's trajectory over many decades. Suggest Islam has been for this man what it was for Malcolm Little: an idiom in which to express general cussedness.
  94. @Art Deco
    The figures are from the World Bank. You can make up different numbers if it helps you feel better. Just be sure to discuss them with people who are patient with your fantasies.

    Thanks for confirming that you are incapable of judging a book other than by its cover, or even of conceiving another criterion. The slightest knowledge of demography, plus checking census results, would have taught you that figure for Pakistan is impossible. Those for the other countries are closer to the truth but equally rest on no adequate basis.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The slightest knowledge of demography, plus checking census results, would have taught you that figure for Pakistan is impossible.


    Well, why don't you call up the World Bank's statistical office and tell them they don't know how to do their jobs? Pro tip: if you're going to tell them they're incompetent, they'll expect you to show your work.

  95. @Violence Watch
    The writer vomits racism and uses the excuse of his article to spew disgraceful jokes about Pakistanis. British like to use nicknames about other people, showing their shallow character. What does have to say about bout British atrocities and bombings all over the Muslim world?

    ** The writer vomits racism **

    ‘E’s ‘orrid! A bleedin’ ‘orrid cove, he is.

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  96. @Anon
    Not sure using dysphemisms like "Paki" actually advances your argument but anyway ...

    Look to your own ruling elite for opening the doors to mass immigration. Enoch Powell himself was welcoming immigrants in the '50s -- apparently their labor was needed in Britain at the time (in the same way that Germany needed Turkish "guest workers"). The British political and business elite had no long-term plans on how immigrants were going to fit in to Britain.

    As for immigrants not assimilating -- that's a good 'un. The problem for second- and third-generation immigrants is that the host population doesn't want to assimilate them. Fair enough -- the host population wasn't consulted when the immigrants were allowed in. But then, don't just blame them for the lack of assimilation -- it's not just their fault. The consequence is identity crisis. The second- and third-generation people don't feel they belong in their host societies -- but neither do they belong in the societies their parents or grandparents came from. A recipe for alienation, antagonism, and (occasionally) extremism.

    This video shows Muslim non-assimilation has nothing whatsoever to do with attitudes of the native Britons. The smug bitch with the plummy accent clearly sees Britain as just a place to wipe her feet. The guy is the same.

    She’s been involved with UKIP, shmG, which makes you wonder where their hears are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ace
    heads....
    , @Eagle Eye

    The smug bitch with the plummy accent clearly sees Britain as just a place to wipe her feet.
     
    Probably true, but it's unlikely that she reads any Indian language other than English (which is an official language in India), nor would one expect her to have any other cultural affinity with the hygiene-challenged sub-continent beyond perhaps eating Indian food.

    Clearly, she went to an expensive private school where she discovered early on that white middle class students (particularly boys) lapped up her whole "Indian not English" spiel. She has gradually refined her presentation and hair-tossing technique ever since.

    To be sure, within the UK people do make a distinction between English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Ireland nationality and a broader British identity.

  97. @Ace
    This video shows Muslim non-assimilation has nothing whatsoever to do with attitudes of the native Britons. The smug bitch with the plummy accent clearly sees Britain as just a place to wipe her feet. The guy is the same.

    She's been involved with UKIP, shmG, which makes you wonder where their hears are.

    https://youtu.be/DHQ8ZQMUpaE

    heads….

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  98. “Absimilation” is ugly and its meaning is not obvious. It sounds medical. How about “dissimilation” or “antisimilation” or …?

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  99. @anonymous
    From the "Things We'd Like To See But Won't" Department: a Syrian refugee camp opens up in Chappaqua, NY, across the street from the home of Madame RodhamClintonClintonRodham and the Husband of Record.

    One thing I’d love to get going is a charity that buys homes in expensive, heavily prog-left areas, and then moves in about 20-30 of the most virulently fundamentalist refugees we can find. Sell them the home for $1 or a baby goat or something.

    Hilarity ensues, both in the prog neighborhoods and in the charity offices where we have baby goats.

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    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Brilliant idea. I suggest Santa Monica, Malibu, Beverly Hills, and Hollywood.
  100. @Alden
    Philip Ajai is not the biological father. He adopted Adrian age two when he married the Mother.

    Adrian is 52. I doubt his parents have anything to do with his conversion to Islam and terrorism.

    Phillip Ajao is man of Nigerian extraction in his family. As far as I’m aware, the deceased’s sire has not been identified. Since Phillip Ajao has been present in the family since 1966, I don’t think paternal absence is much of an issue in influencing this man’s trajectory over many decades. Suggest Islam has been for this man what it was for Malcolm Little: an idiom in which to express general cussedness.

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  101. @5371
    Thanks for confirming that you are incapable of judging a book other than by its cover, or even of conceiving another criterion. The slightest knowledge of demography, plus checking census results, would have taught you that figure for Pakistan is impossible. Those for the other countries are closer to the truth but equally rest on no adequate basis.

    The slightest knowledge of demography, plus checking census results, would have taught you that figure for Pakistan is impossible.

    Well, why don’t you call up the World Bank’s statistical office and tell them they don’t know how to do their jobs? Pro tip: if you’re going to tell them they’re incompetent, they’ll expect you to show your work.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {Well, why don’t you call up the World Bank’s statistical office and tell them they don’t know how to do their jobs?}

    Well, I don't know about Pakistan and such, but I would not put too much faith in 'official' Stats by UN, World Bank, and all other such orgs.

    Case in point: UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook, etc report that the country of Azerbaijan has something like 9.5 million inhabitants. Completely bogus number. They just report, publicly, what the given country's Statistics ministry reports to them.

    Ask yourself: how could _any_ organization such UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook* possibly verify the info given to them by the given country?
    Ans: they can't. So they take what is given and publish it for public consumption.

    In the case of Azerbaijan: about 3 million or so citizens of Azerbaijan live semi-permanently in Russia. But the government of Azerbaijan never talks about it. They pretend that those ~3 million still live in Azerbaijan. Also, various other statistics, such as voter rolls, number of children going to school first year, food consumption stats and such estimate Azerbaijan's _actual_ resident population is about 6-7 million. (I am originally from Armenia, and we observe Turkbaijan very closely).

    ----
    * No doubt CIA knows or has a very accurate estimates about Azerbaijan/Turkbaijan, but for obvious reasons does not publicly divulge what they know.
  102. @anon
    I'm going to ignore your chaff and just repeat the model so people can decide for themselves if it fits the facts (as they become increasingly obvious over time).

    1. import low IQ people for cheap labor (low relative to the native average)

    2. their kids sit at the bottom getting bitter - which mostly presents as petty crime

    3. if this process includes lots of muslims you end up with jihadists dominating the jails

    4. this leads to petty criminals (of whatever original background) waging jihad as a way of atoning for their sins / catharsis

    The end result of this process will be Islamic versions of 1970's Belfast in every Western city.

    I’m going to ignore your chaff and just repeat the model so people can decide for themselves if it fits the facts (as they become increasingly obvious over time).

    You actually have to offer some facts if you’re going to persuade someone outside the little box you’ve climbed into.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon
    nope - the facts are supplied for me by reality

    the media etc try to fit those facts into a false model of reality because they want to obscure the truth

    all i have to do is supply a model that fits the same facts smoothly - because it's true
  103. @Inque Yutani
    One thing I'd love to get going is a charity that buys homes in expensive, heavily prog-left areas, and then moves in about 20-30 of the most virulently fundamentalist refugees we can find. Sell them the home for $1 or a baby goat or something.

    Hilarity ensues, both in the prog neighborhoods and in the charity offices where we have baby goats.

    Brilliant idea. I suggest Santa Monica, Malibu, Beverly Hills, and Hollywood.

    Read More
  104. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Art Deco
    I’m going to ignore your chaff and just repeat the model so people can decide for themselves if it fits the facts (as they become increasingly obvious over time).

    You actually have to offer some facts if you're going to persuade someone outside the little box you've climbed into.

    nope – the facts are supplied for me by reality

    the media etc try to fit those facts into a false model of reality because they want to obscure the truth

    all i have to do is supply a model that fits the same facts smoothly – because it’s true

    Read More
  105. @Art Deco
    The slightest knowledge of demography, plus checking census results, would have taught you that figure for Pakistan is impossible.


    Well, why don't you call up the World Bank's statistical office and tell them they don't know how to do their jobs? Pro tip: if you're going to tell them they're incompetent, they'll expect you to show your work.

    {Well, why don’t you call up the World Bank’s statistical office and tell them they don’t know how to do their jobs?}

    Well, I don’t know about Pakistan and such, but I would not put too much faith in ‘official’ Stats by UN, World Bank, and all other such orgs.

    Case in point: UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook, etc report that the country of Azerbaijan has something like 9.5 million inhabitants. Completely bogus number. They just report, publicly, what the given country’s Statistics ministry reports to them.

    Ask yourself: how could _any_ organization such UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook* possibly verify the info given to them by the given country?
    Ans: they can’t. So they take what is given and publish it for public consumption.

    In the case of Azerbaijan: about 3 million or so citizens of Azerbaijan live semi-permanently in Russia. But the government of Azerbaijan never talks about it. They pretend that those ~3 million still live in Azerbaijan. Also, various other statistics, such as voter rolls, number of children going to school first year, food consumption stats and such estimate Azerbaijan’s _actual_ resident population is about 6-7 million. (I am originally from Armenia, and we observe Turkbaijan very closely).

    —-
    * No doubt CIA knows or has a very accurate estimates about Azerbaijan/Turkbaijan, but for obvious reasons does not publicly divulge what they know.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Several participants here are quite sure they know better than the World Bank, but quite averse to giving any evidence that they do. Funny thing about that.
    , @5371
    I doubt the CIA has a secret stash somewhere with all the real information. They are malicious, but not intelligent or well informed, and they reward groupthink, not independent research. Their risible "world factbook" is even worse than the UN or World Bank statistical services.
  106. @anon
    That's very easy to test.

    Everyone should read the Koran and see if it explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of a legitimate jihad (where legitimate is defined as being called by a legitimate authority).

    Then everyone would see if it's the media, the politicians, mulim apologists online and people like you are lying through their teeth or whether it's the "islamophobes" who are lying.

    “Everyone should read the Koran and see if it explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of a legitimate jihad (where legitimate is defined as being called by a legitimate authority).”

    The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.

    “Then everyone would see if it’s the media, the politicians, mulim apologists online and people like you are lying through their teeth or whether it’s the “islamophobes” who are lying.”

    Those Islamic fundamentalists who read the Koran in that perverted view are denigrating that faith.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.}

    Where in the Bible there is language that condones the killing of non-Christians and call for their conversion by force.?
    , @Jeff77450
    That is patently false. I'm presently reading the Bible cover-to-cover for the fifth time in my life and there are no passages that even suggest forced conversion or killing anyone who refuses to repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their Savior.
  107. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment

    The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.

    If my argument was x is better than y that would be relevant but my argument is the media are lying through their teeth about what is in the Koran – so it’s not.

    Those Islamic fundamentalists who read the Koran in that perverted view are denigrating that faith.

    Either you haven’t read it and believe the media’s lies or you’re lying. It explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of legitimate jihad.

    The key point here is not Islam but the media lying through their teeth.

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  108. @Corvinus
    "Everyone should read the Koran and see if it explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of a legitimate jihad (where legitimate is defined as being called by a legitimate authority)."

    The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.

    "Then everyone would see if it’s the media, the politicians, mulim apologists online and people like you are lying through their teeth or whether it’s the “islamophobes” who are lying."

    Those Islamic fundamentalists who read the Koran in that perverted view are denigrating that faith.

    {The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.}

    Where in the Bible there is language that condones the killing of non-Christians and call for their conversion by force.?

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

    Augustine found that persuasion was insufficient to the task of conversion. He advocated government force in his Epistle 185, A Treatise Concerning the Correction of the Donatists, justifying coercion from scripture. He cites Jesus striking Paul during Paul's vision on the road to Damascus. He also cites the parable of the feast, Luke 14:22-3. Such short term pain for the sake of eternal salvation was an act of charity and love, in his view.
  109. I remember some of Derbyshire’s old Britain. In 1974 I visited, and while I was in Wales, I somehow lost my wallet on a train.

    I discovered the loss in a pie shop in a small town. The proprietor, a nice middle-aged lady, told me to go to the station and ask about it. I could leave my luggage with her. I did, and to my amazement was told that the wallet had been found and was being held at the end of the line. I traveled there and got my wallet back with everything still in it, minus a fee of a few pounds (I don’t remember how the ticket was paid).

    When I got back, the pie shop was closed, but there was note on the door telling me to pick up my bag at the police station. A jovial sergeant gave it back to me.

    I very much doubt that any such thing could happen today. That is a huge loss.

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  110. @Avery
    {Well, why don’t you call up the World Bank’s statistical office and tell them they don’t know how to do their jobs?}

    Well, I don't know about Pakistan and such, but I would not put too much faith in 'official' Stats by UN, World Bank, and all other such orgs.

    Case in point: UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook, etc report that the country of Azerbaijan has something like 9.5 million inhabitants. Completely bogus number. They just report, publicly, what the given country's Statistics ministry reports to them.

    Ask yourself: how could _any_ organization such UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook* possibly verify the info given to them by the given country?
    Ans: they can't. So they take what is given and publish it for public consumption.

    In the case of Azerbaijan: about 3 million or so citizens of Azerbaijan live semi-permanently in Russia. But the government of Azerbaijan never talks about it. They pretend that those ~3 million still live in Azerbaijan. Also, various other statistics, such as voter rolls, number of children going to school first year, food consumption stats and such estimate Azerbaijan's _actual_ resident population is about 6-7 million. (I am originally from Armenia, and we observe Turkbaijan very closely).

    ----
    * No doubt CIA knows or has a very accurate estimates about Azerbaijan/Turkbaijan, but for obvious reasons does not publicly divulge what they know.

    Several participants here are quite sure they know better than the World Bank, but quite averse to giving any evidence that they do. Funny thing about that.

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  111. @Avery
    {The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.}

    Where in the Bible there is language that condones the killing of non-Christians and call for their conversion by force.?

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

    Augustine found that persuasion was insufficient to the task of conversion. He advocated government force in his Epistle 185, A Treatise Concerning the Correction of the Donatists, justifying coercion from scripture. He cites Jesus striking Paul during Paul’s vision on the road to Damascus. He also cites the parable of the feast, Luke 14:22-3. Such short term pain for the sake of eternal salvation was an act of charity and love, in his view.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    There were so many Christians around in the periods covered by Exodus and Deuteronomy weren't there?

    As for Augustine, I don't have the slightest idea of what is covered in what you are referencing. Catholic schoolchildren might be exposed to this, but I can't think of too many others.

    I'm reasonably sure most Evangelical or the like Protestant congregations don't have the slightest idea what is in any of Augustine works, let alone talk about smiting infidels based on it.
  112. @Corvinus
    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

    Augustine found that persuasion was insufficient to the task of conversion. He advocated government force in his Epistle 185, A Treatise Concerning the Correction of the Donatists, justifying coercion from scripture. He cites Jesus striking Paul during Paul's vision on the road to Damascus. He also cites the parable of the feast, Luke 14:22-3. Such short term pain for the sake of eternal salvation was an act of charity and love, in his view.

    There were so many Christians around in the periods covered by Exodus and Deuteronomy weren’t there?

    As for Augustine, I don’t have the slightest idea of what is covered in what you are referencing. Catholic schoolchildren might be exposed to this, but I can’t think of too many others.

    I’m reasonably sure most Evangelical or the like Protestant congregations don’t have the slightest idea what is in any of Augustine works, let alone talk about smiting infidels based on it.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Avery asked for specific passages in the Bible that condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force. Clearly I provided the relevant evidence.

    Furthermore...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion#Christianity
  113. Mr. Derbyshire, great article as always and also poignant. It is my fervent wish that every Briton would read this article and also watch this 12-minute-video in which Douglas Murray “pleads the case” for Britain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGC_Jgk5rAk

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  114. @Corvinus
    "Everyone should read the Koran and see if it explicitly condones the killing of non-muslims in the context of a legitimate jihad (where legitimate is defined as being called by a legitimate authority)."

    The Bible also condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force.

    "Then everyone would see if it’s the media, the politicians, mulim apologists online and people like you are lying through their teeth or whether it’s the “islamophobes” who are lying."

    Those Islamic fundamentalists who read the Koran in that perverted view are denigrating that faith.

    That is patently false. I’m presently reading the Bible cover-to-cover for the fifth time in my life and there are no passages that even suggest forced conversion or killing anyone who refuses to repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their Savior.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    I can't make that claim, but I do know I've seen lots of stuff in the bible that makes me go "Huh? It says that?"

    My absolute favorite involves Moses.

    Moses is going back to Egypt, with his wife and child in tow. God drops by to say hi a time or two, just kind of a casual thing.

    Then God pops up again, tell Moses he didn't get his kid circumcised, so now God has to kill him.

    Zipporah whips out a knife, performs an emergency circumcision, then everything is cool again.

    Then Jacob is going somewhere (just looked it up, Canaan). God pops up and starts throwing down WWF style with Jacob.

    And the God of the Universe, the Omnipotent one, well... he isn't winning.

    Really God? Really?

    I read those. I am totally uninterested in any interpretation or deeper meaning. The God who created the Universe (I am a literal person) just doesn't do those things. He's cosmic, get it?
    , @Corvinus
    You may be reading the Good Book, but you are not comprehending its meaning in reference to the citations I provided.
  115. @Art Deco
    People who knew Greek-Cypriot culture told me I was lucky to get away with all my parts still attached.

    Cyprus has a homicide rate of 1.1 per 100,000. I doubt there's much honor-driven violence there.


    The Muslim population of Britain is 4.8% of the total. You could certainly handle that if you had an elite who favored the natives and which was not bent on marginalizing your common--and-garden wage earners and petit bourgeoisie. It's rude to Britain's West Indian population to lump them in with the Muslim population. The West Indians do not pose much of a challenge, are < 2% of the population as we speak, and now have high rates of inter-marriage.

    Step 1 for a Farage ministry: a bill of attainder exiling the British equivalents of Peter Sutherland. Step 2: statutory legislation which restores freedom of contract and association. Have your immigrant population navigate British society as it emerges from the discretion exercised by people on the ground, without the option of calling in the lawyers. Step 3 reduce state allocation of benefits: statutory legislation providing for liquidation of extant public housing stock and for incremental elimination of residual rent controls. Step 4: limit cash doles for that share of the population which is neither elderly nor disabled to term-limited unemployment compensation (9 months max), term-limited workmen's compensation, and an income tax credit which functions as a wage subsidy at lower income levels. Step 5: have for immigrant populations staged introduction of eligibility for any kind of common provision (including school berths), with 12 years worth of working and paying taxes necessary to be on an equal footing with native British. Step 6: limit the stock of temporary residency permits to a fixed % of the extant native born population, and the flow to a moving average of verified annual departures. Step 7: limit the issuance of settler's visas to a figure derived from a formula which has the fertility deficit and the unemployment rate as arguments. About 85,000 admissions per annum would do given current conditions; have aspirants pass a written and oral English proficiency test, a background check, and a physical. Limit admissions from 25 or 30 problem countries to families with children or to older married couples. Step 8: limit naturalization to people who have been lawful and palpable residents of Britain, Ulster, or the insular dependencies for the majority of their natural life, and require they renounce their previous citizenship in writing (with a notification to the consulate) unless they've been citizens of one of the Queen's other realms or citizens of Ireland). Step 9: limit a menu of state posts to British subjects only, and limit the franchise to sit for civil services examinations and occupational licensing examinations to British subjects or to settler aliens who've been working and paying taxes for a requisite span of years. Step 10: grant children born in Britain to settler-aliens the status of denizen rather than citizen; require they seek naturalization if they want citizenship; allow their children born in Britain to have citizenship at birth.

    Britain is not ruined. It needs spackle work, like most any place human beings live.

    what matters is the percent of muslims of the younger generations…the muslim population of those under the age of 30 is over 10% already, and they have a higher fertility rate than the aboriginal population. The demographics of those over the age of 60 may well be 97% white, but this segment of the population will be gone soon and thus should be ignored when looking at the changing racila demographics of a nation

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  116. @Jeff77450
    That is patently false. I'm presently reading the Bible cover-to-cover for the fifth time in my life and there are no passages that even suggest forced conversion or killing anyone who refuses to repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their Savior.

    I can’t make that claim, but I do know I’ve seen lots of stuff in the bible that makes me go “Huh? It says that?”

    My absolute favorite involves Moses.

    Moses is going back to Egypt, with his wife and child in tow. God drops by to say hi a time or two, just kind of a casual thing.

    Then God pops up again, tell Moses he didn’t get his kid circumcised, so now God has to kill him.

    Zipporah whips out a knife, performs an emergency circumcision, then everything is cool again.

    Then Jacob is going somewhere (just looked it up, Canaan). God pops up and starts throwing down WWF style with Jacob.

    And the God of the Universe, the Omnipotent one, well… he isn’t winning.

    Really God? Really?

    I read those. I am totally uninterested in any interpretation or deeper meaning. The God who created the Universe (I am a literal person) just doesn’t do those things. He’s cosmic, get it?

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    • Replies: @Truth
    I am currently reading the Old Testament. There are a lot of things I cannot even pretend to understand, but this is a somewhat ridiculous reiteration.

    Yes, the bible offers Jews (not Christians, because there were none until CHRIST was born) the option of making non-Jews servants or killing them, but this not because they "weren't Christians", it's because they were worshiping other Gods! Maloch, Baal, Baphomet and whoever, and God (according to the bible) did not want this scourge to spread. This is he reasoning behind the flood, as well as God's edict that Jews should only marry other Jews.
  117. @Sunbeam
    There were so many Christians around in the periods covered by Exodus and Deuteronomy weren't there?

    As for Augustine, I don't have the slightest idea of what is covered in what you are referencing. Catholic schoolchildren might be exposed to this, but I can't think of too many others.

    I'm reasonably sure most Evangelical or the like Protestant congregations don't have the slightest idea what is in any of Augustine works, let alone talk about smiting infidels based on it.

    Avery asked for specific passages in the Bible that condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force. Clearly I provided the relevant evidence.

    Furthermore…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion#Christianity

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    And I maintain that using Exodus and Deuteronomy for this is like saying the Magna Carta calls for killing Communists.
    , @anon
    1) Old Testament but okay

    2) It's an invocation against others trying to convert Jews to other religions not conquering other religions

    3) St. Augustine isn't the bible.

    4) However all this is simply a deflection from you lying about what is in the Koran. This is not an argument over whether the Koran is worse/better than the Bible. It's an argument over the media, politicians and people like you lying about what is in it. Anyone can have a quick read of the Koran themselves online and see you are blatantly lying.

  118. @Jeff77450
    That is patently false. I'm presently reading the Bible cover-to-cover for the fifth time in my life and there are no passages that even suggest forced conversion or killing anyone who refuses to repent of their sins and accept Jesus as their Savior.

    You may be reading the Good Book, but you are not comprehending its meaning in reference to the citations I provided.

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  119. @Corvinus
    Avery asked for specific passages in the Bible that condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force. Clearly I provided the relevant evidence.

    Furthermore...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion#Christianity

    And I maintain that using Exodus and Deuteronomy for this is like saying the Magna Carta calls for killing Communists.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "And I maintain that using Exodus and Deuteronomy for this is like saying the Magna Carta calls for killing Communists."

    Maintain all you want, the passages clearly state that non-Christians ought to die at worst or be forced to convert at best.
  120. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Corvinus
    Avery asked for specific passages in the Bible that condones the killing of non-Christians and calls for their conversion by force. Clearly I provided the relevant evidence.

    Furthermore...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion#Christianity

    1) Old Testament but okay

    2) It’s an invocation against others trying to convert Jews to other religions not conquering other religions

    3) St. Augustine isn’t the bible.

    4) However all this is simply a deflection from you lying about what is in the Koran. This is not an argument over whether the Koran is worse/better than the Bible. It’s an argument over the media, politicians and people like you lying about what is in it. Anyone can have a quick read of the Koran themselves online and see you are blatantly lying.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "2) It’s an invocation against others trying to convert Jews to other religions not conquering other religions"

    The passage clearly calls for Christians to murder non-Christians. Are you blind?

    3) St. Augustine isn’t the bible.

    But it is an example of Christians persecuting non-Christians, which is right up your alley.

    "4) However all this is simply a deflection from you lying about what is in the Koran. This is not an argument over whether the Koran is worse/better than the Bible. It’s an argument over the media, politicians and people like you lying about what is in it. Anyone can have a quick read of the Koran themselves online and see you are blatantly lying."

    The Bible and the Koran both call for the murdering of infidels. How am I lying?
  121. @Ace
    This video shows Muslim non-assimilation has nothing whatsoever to do with attitudes of the native Britons. The smug bitch with the plummy accent clearly sees Britain as just a place to wipe her feet. The guy is the same.

    She's been involved with UKIP, shmG, which makes you wonder where their hears are.

    https://youtu.be/DHQ8ZQMUpaE

    The smug bitch with the plummy accent clearly sees Britain as just a place to wipe her feet.

    Probably true, but it’s unlikely that she reads any Indian language other than English (which is an official language in India), nor would one expect her to have any other cultural affinity with the hygiene-challenged sub-continent beyond perhaps eating Indian food.

    Clearly, she went to an expensive private school where she discovered early on that white middle class students (particularly boys) lapped up her whole “Indian not English” spiel. She has gradually refined her presentation and hair-tossing technique ever since.

    To be sure, within the UK people do make a distinction between English/Scottish/Welsh/Northern Ireland nationality and a broader British identity.

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  122. @Avery
    {Well, why don’t you call up the World Bank’s statistical office and tell them they don’t know how to do their jobs?}

    Well, I don't know about Pakistan and such, but I would not put too much faith in 'official' Stats by UN, World Bank, and all other such orgs.

    Case in point: UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook, etc report that the country of Azerbaijan has something like 9.5 million inhabitants. Completely bogus number. They just report, publicly, what the given country's Statistics ministry reports to them.

    Ask yourself: how could _any_ organization such UN, World Bank, CIA Factbook* possibly verify the info given to them by the given country?
    Ans: they can't. So they take what is given and publish it for public consumption.

    In the case of Azerbaijan: about 3 million or so citizens of Azerbaijan live semi-permanently in Russia. But the government of Azerbaijan never talks about it. They pretend that those ~3 million still live in Azerbaijan. Also, various other statistics, such as voter rolls, number of children going to school first year, food consumption stats and such estimate Azerbaijan's _actual_ resident population is about 6-7 million. (I am originally from Armenia, and we observe Turkbaijan very closely).

    ----
    * No doubt CIA knows or has a very accurate estimates about Azerbaijan/Turkbaijan, but for obvious reasons does not publicly divulge what they know.

    I doubt the CIA has a secret stash somewhere with all the real information. They are malicious, but not intelligent or well informed, and they reward groupthink, not independent research. Their risible “world factbook” is even worse than the UN or World Bank statistical services.

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  123. @Parbes
    "Once I expressed a similar thought about Russia. Quite expectedly I was called a Russophobe. I have no idea why people are so obsessed with raw numbers, like numbers is all that only matters.....So they would rather import people with an absolutely alien race and culture than accept that the population may decline but, as a positive side effect, will still be able to remain racially or culturally stable."

    Russia needs NATURAL population growth (i.e., population growth of the CURRENT NATIVE RUSSIAN POPULATION) - NOT growth by "importing people with an absolutely alien race and culture". That should be self-explanatory to anyone except an obtuse moron. You claimed that it would be necessary and beneficial for already very sparsely-populated Russia to LOSE one-third of its population and DECLINE to a population of 100,000,000 (with you, yourself, NOT being included in that decline, of course, for some reason....!) It is DEMENTED IDIOCY to think that a desolate, depopulated Russia of only 100,000,000 people distributed over 18,000,000 square km. would have a healthy society or economy, or would be able to protect her borders and territory from the mounting pressures (whether military or "peaceful" migratory) of enemy powers and racial-religious aliens. Russia has many serious ENEMIES who want to destroy, subjugate or break up the Russian state and society, and then move in to take control of Russian territory and resources, if you hadn't realized - first and foremost, the voracious, Russia-hating U.S. globo-imperialist elites. And for most of Russia's foes, the low fertility rates and declining population of post-Soviet Russia is a major sign of WEAKNESS AND DECAY, cause for CONTEMPTUOUS GLOATING, and incentive for AGGRESSION - witness, for example, the celebratory crowing of the Russophobic neocon scum "unit472" earlier on this comment thread.

    Does this make things clearer for your slow and egotistical brain??

    I do not understand why you are so aggressively sensitive on that matter. Are you Russian? What’s your interest? Do you know how Russians live today? Are you aware that Russian cities are overpopulated? That Russians have to live in small apartments in ugly concrete tower blocks? That the Russian climate is the coldest and harshest in the world (except Canada) and hardly bearable? Etc. Yes, Russians do not want to breed like rabbits in that environment just to please your opinion or an opinion of some pseudo-patriotic state officials who need more sheeple or cannon fodder. Just face it.

    Russia needs NATURAL population growth (i.e., population growth of the CURRENT NATIVE RUSSIAN POPULATION) – NOT growth by “importing people with an absolutely alien race and culture”.

    You seem to have no idea about the ongoing internal discussion concerning the depopulation. I was writing bearing that in mind. But you simply do not understand.

    with you, yourself, NOT being included in that decline, of course, for some reason….!

    What made you draw such a conclusion? You do not seem to be able reading minds. Of course, myself included in that decline. As most Russians of my age I unlikely will have more than 1 or 2 children if any at all. And I would understand my children doing the same. So you see I admit that every new generation would be half the size of the previous one. But at some point in the future the population may stabilize and Russians would start to raise 3 or more children again. But not now.

    a desolate, depopulated Russia of only 100,000,000 people distributed over 18,000,000 square km.

    Look how big Russia is! Only mere insignificant 90% have below -10 C in January. And only mere 70% are the “Far North” with -30 C every winter. How couldn’t 300 million want to live here? (It’s 17m sq km actually, you may divide by 100m by 5m (30%).)

    https://geographyofrussia.com/ocenka-prirodno-geograficheskix-uslovij-dlya-zhizni-naseleniya-i-xozyajstvennoj-deyatelnosti/

    https://geographyofrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/159_1.jpg

    http://demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/095/tema03.php

    You have little understanding of Russian geography, yet have an opinion. Russia is a “small” country. Still, you are always welcome to sunny Siberia, 12 million sq km of bare tundra and taiga are waiting you.

    Russia has many serious ENEMIES who want to destroy, subjugate or break up the Russian state and society, and then move in to take control of Russian territory and resources, if you hadn’t realized

    You’re paranoid. Most of the Russian elite enjoys their villas and yachts in London, Nice or Miami or whatever NATO country already (except for Putin, maybe, he likes Sochi and now the Crimea). Most resources are owned by Western offshore phoney companies. Russia has been subjugated a long time ago.

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    • Replies: @Parbes
    You're a wilfully obtuse, dishonest and nasty piece of work; and possibly autistic besides. You're also like a kind of poster boy for everything that's bad and mentally twisted about most of the Russian "opposition" today. Not worth answering in detail this dreck of falsehoods, distortions, exaggerations and silly grade-school logic that you posted here. Yeah, that's right, you deranged cuck; go ahead and depopulate Russia by another one-third because you're mad at the oligarchs and the current quality of public housing, and then see what happens next - good luck dealing with the social and economic crash, armed invasions, "alien race & religion" migrations, population replacement and etc., etc. after that.

    I'm done debating with your silly self.

    , @Art Deco
    Best I can tell, European Russia has within it about 700,000 sq miles for which the default biome is deciduous forest or steppe and Siberia has about 400,000 sq miles for which the same is true. You have a population of about 57,000,000 outside these biomes. That leaves you 92,000,000 within them, for a density of 84 persons per sq. mile. France has a density of 270 persons per sq. mile. If you exclude mountain, desert, boreal forest, and tundra, the United States has a higher density than the portion of Russia in question.

    As for your cities, Moscow has a density of about 15,000 person per sq. mile; St. Petersburg, 13,000 per sq mile; Novosibirsk, 7,600 per sq. mile; Yekaterininberg, 7,060; Nizhny Novgorod, 7,040. If you look at the core cities of American metropolitan centers of similar total population you see Los Angeles, 8,300 per sq mile; Philadelphia, 11,600; Cleveland, 5,100; and Pittsburgh, 5,500. So, Russian cities are comparatively densely settled. OTOH, Greater London has a density of 14,000 persons per sq. mile and greater Paris 9,700 persons per sq. mile.
  124. @Sunbeam
    I can't make that claim, but I do know I've seen lots of stuff in the bible that makes me go "Huh? It says that?"

    My absolute favorite involves Moses.

    Moses is going back to Egypt, with his wife and child in tow. God drops by to say hi a time or two, just kind of a casual thing.

    Then God pops up again, tell Moses he didn't get his kid circumcised, so now God has to kill him.

    Zipporah whips out a knife, performs an emergency circumcision, then everything is cool again.

    Then Jacob is going somewhere (just looked it up, Canaan). God pops up and starts throwing down WWF style with Jacob.

    And the God of the Universe, the Omnipotent one, well... he isn't winning.

    Really God? Really?

    I read those. I am totally uninterested in any interpretation or deeper meaning. The God who created the Universe (I am a literal person) just doesn't do those things. He's cosmic, get it?

    I am currently reading the Old Testament. There are a lot of things I cannot even pretend to understand, but this is a somewhat ridiculous reiteration.

    Yes, the bible offers Jews (not Christians, because there were none until CHRIST was born) the option of making non-Jews servants or killing them, but this not because they “weren’t Christians”, it’s because they were worshiping other Gods! Maloch, Baal, Baphomet and whoever, and God (according to the bible) did not want this scourge to spread. This is he reasoning behind the flood, as well as God’s edict that Jews should only marry other Jews.

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    • Replies: @Sunbeam
    We are going way off topic, but whatever.

    I think one issue is that we differ in how we view something like religion.

    If I read between your lines, it is ok for something to be a collection of philosophy and stories that guide and illuminate us. Heck considering this is the Unz site, shaped us and our collective culture by... *Drumbeat breeding.

    But that doesn't suit me. My god has to be REAL. You know made the heavens and earth (though what I think, and what a goat herder from 2500 years ago imagined that to be like are very different). And when all is said and done, I get to see my dead again.

    Otherwise, go tell the Marines, you know? The sailors won't believe a word of it.

    I mean I can take 186,200 miles a second and do a little math. And look up that Alpha Centauri is 4 point something light years from earth and realize that is big. That is really big.

    And I think of the God that made things like that. Think of Black Holes, Supernova, Gamma Ray Bursts, Galaxies without end (or just really hard to count)...

    Then I read the Old Testament of the bible. Does not work for me, at all. I am totally unable to believe a word of this sort of thing. And I think you know enough to realize that flippancy aside, I did not lie about the two examples I invoked.

    At least the New Testament is kinda scale invariant? It's conceivable the ideals could be extended to be valid in a world, a universe a whole lot bigger than the goatherders imagined.

    The Old? Meh.

  125. @Truth
    I am currently reading the Old Testament. There are a lot of things I cannot even pretend to understand, but this is a somewhat ridiculous reiteration.

    Yes, the bible offers Jews (not Christians, because there were none until CHRIST was born) the option of making non-Jews servants or killing them, but this not because they "weren't Christians", it's because they were worshiping other Gods! Maloch, Baal, Baphomet and whoever, and God (according to the bible) did not want this scourge to spread. This is he reasoning behind the flood, as well as God's edict that Jews should only marry other Jews.

    We are going way off topic, but whatever.

    I think one issue is that we differ in how we view something like religion.

    If I read between your lines, it is ok for something to be a collection of philosophy and stories that guide and illuminate us. Heck considering this is the Unz site, shaped us and our collective culture by… *Drumbeat breeding.

    But that doesn’t suit me. My god has to be REAL. You know made the heavens and earth (though what I think, and what a goat herder from 2500 years ago imagined that to be like are very different). And when all is said and done, I get to see my dead again.

    Otherwise, go tell the Marines, you know? The sailors won’t believe a word of it.

    I mean I can take 186,200 miles a second and do a little math. And look up that Alpha Centauri is 4 point something light years from earth and realize that is big. That is really big.

    And I think of the God that made things like that. Think of Black Holes, Supernova, Gamma Ray Bursts, Galaxies without end (or just really hard to count)…

    Then I read the Old Testament of the bible. Does not work for me, at all. I am totally unable to believe a word of this sort of thing. And I think you know enough to realize that flippancy aside, I did not lie about the two examples I invoked.

    At least the New Testament is kinda scale invariant? It’s conceivable the ideals could be extended to be valid in a world, a universe a whole lot bigger than the goatherders imagined.

    The Old? Meh.

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  126. @Sunbeam
    And I maintain that using Exodus and Deuteronomy for this is like saying the Magna Carta calls for killing Communists.

    “And I maintain that using Exodus and Deuteronomy for this is like saying the Magna Carta calls for killing Communists.”

    Maintain all you want, the passages clearly state that non-Christians ought to die at worst or be forced to convert at best.

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    Maintain all you want, the passages clearly state that non-Christians ought to die at worst or be forced to convert at best.
     
    Lying again.
  127. @anon
    1) Old Testament but okay

    2) It's an invocation against others trying to convert Jews to other religions not conquering other religions

    3) St. Augustine isn't the bible.

    4) However all this is simply a deflection from you lying about what is in the Koran. This is not an argument over whether the Koran is worse/better than the Bible. It's an argument over the media, politicians and people like you lying about what is in it. Anyone can have a quick read of the Koran themselves online and see you are blatantly lying.

    “2) It’s an invocation against others trying to convert Jews to other religions not conquering other religions”

    The passage clearly calls for Christians to murder non-Christians. Are you blind?

    3) St. Augustine isn’t the bible.

    But it is an example of Christians persecuting non-Christians, which is right up your alley.

    “4) However all this is simply a deflection from you lying about what is in the Koran. This is not an argument over whether the Koran is worse/better than the Bible. It’s an argument over the media, politicians and people like you lying about what is in it. Anyone can have a quick read of the Koran themselves online and see you are blatantly lying.”

    The Bible and the Koran both call for the murdering of infidels. How am I lying?

    Read More
    • Replies: @anon

    The passage clearly calls for Christians to murder non-Christians. Are you blind?
     
    There were no Christians when Deuteronomy was written.
  128. The Old? Meh.

    The Old Testament in a nutshell serves four major purposes:

    1. It establishes the omnipotency of God.
    2. It introduces the 10 Commandments
    3. It clarifies the cause and effect of non-belief.
    4. It elucidates the circumstances that led to Christ being sent to earth.

    Much of the Old Testament fell by the wayside when Christ came to earth because the rules of the Old Testament were written for Pre-Christ Hebrews. It is well-accepted now that it is not sinful for a man to shave his beard.

    An encapsulation would be, “You people kept screwing up for 4,000 years, so I had to come to earth in human form, to show you what was right again.”

    At this point, it not accepted to enslave or murder Baal worshipers, if it were, half the US Congress (literally) would be working the cotton fields. The way I understand it, Jesus died for our sins, meaning that there are only two true sins now a. non-belief and b. Suicide (because one does not have a chance to make amends.)

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  129. @Boris N
    I do not understand why you are so aggressively sensitive on that matter. Are you Russian? What's your interest? Do you know how Russians live today? Are you aware that Russian cities are overpopulated? That Russians have to live in small apartments in ugly concrete tower blocks? That the Russian climate is the coldest and harshest in the world (except Canada) and hardly bearable? Etc. Yes, Russians do not want to breed like rabbits in that environment just to please your opinion or an opinion of some pseudo-patriotic state officials who need more sheeple or cannon fodder. Just face it.

    Russia needs NATURAL population growth (i.e., population growth of the CURRENT NATIVE RUSSIAN POPULATION) – NOT growth by “importing people with an absolutely alien race and culture”.
     
    You seem to have no idea about the ongoing internal discussion concerning the depopulation. I was writing bearing that in mind. But you simply do not understand.

    with you, yourself, NOT being included in that decline, of course, for some reason….!
     
    What made you draw such a conclusion? You do not seem to be able reading minds. Of course, myself included in that decline. As most Russians of my age I unlikely will have more than 1 or 2 children if any at all. And I would understand my children doing the same. So you see I admit that every new generation would be half the size of the previous one. But at some point in the future the population may stabilize and Russians would start to raise 3 or more children again. But not now.

    a desolate, depopulated Russia of only 100,000,000 people distributed over 18,000,000 square km.
     
    Look how big Russia is! Only mere insignificant 90% have below -10 C in January. And only mere 70% are the "Far North" with -30 C every winter. How couldn't 300 million want to live here? (It's 17m sq km actually, you may divide by 100m by 5m (30%).)

    https://geographyofrussia.com/ocenka-prirodno-geograficheskix-uslovij-dlya-zhizni-naseleniya-i-xozyajstvennoj-deyatelnosti/
    https://geographyofrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/159_1.jpg
    http://demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/095/tema03.php

    You have little understanding of Russian geography, yet have an opinion. Russia is a "small" country. Still, you are always welcome to sunny Siberia, 12 million sq km of bare tundra and taiga are waiting you.

    Russia has many serious ENEMIES who want to destroy, subjugate or break up the Russian state and society, and then move in to take control of Russian territory and resources, if you hadn’t realized
     
    You're paranoid. Most of the Russian elite enjoys their villas and yachts in London, Nice or Miami or whatever NATO country already (except for Putin, maybe, he likes Sochi and now the Crimea). Most resources are owned by Western offshore phoney companies. Russia has been subjugated a long time ago.

    You’re a wilfully obtuse, dishonest and nasty piece of work; and possibly autistic besides. You’re also like a kind of poster boy for everything that’s bad and mentally twisted about most of the Russian “opposition” today. Not worth answering in detail this dreck of falsehoods, distortions, exaggerations and silly grade-school logic that you posted here. Yeah, that’s right, you deranged cuck; go ahead and depopulate Russia by another one-third because you’re mad at the oligarchs and the current quality of public housing, and then see what happens next – good luck dealing with the social and economic crash, armed invasions, “alien race & religion” migrations, population replacement and etc., etc. after that.

    I’m done debating with your silly self.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    An aggressive dumb arrogant deranged American (European? whatever) is making ad hominem attacks. Next time when you rail at your Russophobic government and media look at a mirror, you're no different, both are doing the same, just on different levels. Do not pretend you are a Russophile, you have nothing to do with the country. I may have a further discussion with you on the matter only when you will be living in Voronezh at least.
  130. @Boris N
    I do not understand why you are so aggressively sensitive on that matter. Are you Russian? What's your interest? Do you know how Russians live today? Are you aware that Russian cities are overpopulated? That Russians have to live in small apartments in ugly concrete tower blocks? That the Russian climate is the coldest and harshest in the world (except Canada) and hardly bearable? Etc. Yes, Russians do not want to breed like rabbits in that environment just to please your opinion or an opinion of some pseudo-patriotic state officials who need more sheeple or cannon fodder. Just face it.

    Russia needs NATURAL population growth (i.e., population growth of the CURRENT NATIVE RUSSIAN POPULATION) – NOT growth by “importing people with an absolutely alien race and culture”.
     
    You seem to have no idea about the ongoing internal discussion concerning the depopulation. I was writing bearing that in mind. But you simply do not understand.

    with you, yourself, NOT being included in that decline, of course, for some reason….!
     
    What made you draw such a conclusion? You do not seem to be able reading minds. Of course, myself included in that decline. As most Russians of my age I unlikely will have more than 1 or 2 children if any at all. And I would understand my children doing the same. So you see I admit that every new generation would be half the size of the previous one. But at some point in the future the population may stabilize and Russians would start to raise 3 or more children again. But not now.

    a desolate, depopulated Russia of only 100,000,000 people distributed over 18,000,000 square km.
     
    Look how big Russia is! Only mere insignificant 90% have below -10 C in January. And only mere 70% are the "Far North" with -30 C every winter. How couldn't 300 million want to live here? (It's 17m sq km actually, you may divide by 100m by 5m (30%).)

    https://geographyofrussia.com/ocenka-prirodno-geograficheskix-uslovij-dlya-zhizni-naseleniya-i-xozyajstvennoj-deyatelnosti/
    https://geographyofrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/159_1.jpg
    http://demoscope.ru/weekly/2003/095/tema03.php

    You have little understanding of Russian geography, yet have an opinion. Russia is a "small" country. Still, you are always welcome to sunny Siberia, 12 million sq km of bare tundra and taiga are waiting you.

    Russia has many serious ENEMIES who want to destroy, subjugate or break up the Russian state and society, and then move in to take control of Russian territory and resources, if you hadn’t realized
     
    You're paranoid. Most of the Russian elite enjoys their villas and yachts in London, Nice or Miami or whatever NATO country already (except for Putin, maybe, he likes Sochi and now the Crimea). Most resources are owned by Western offshore phoney companies. Russia has been subjugated a long time ago.

    Best I can tell, European Russia has within it about 700,000 sq miles for which the default biome is deciduous forest or steppe and Siberia has about 400,000 sq miles for which the same is true. You have a population of about 57,000,000 outside these biomes. That leaves you 92,000,000 within them, for a density of 84 persons per sq. mile. France has a density of 270 persons per sq. mile. If you exclude mountain, desert, boreal forest, and tundra, the United States has a higher density than the portion of Russia in question.

    As for your cities, Moscow has a density of about 15,000 person per sq. mile; St. Petersburg, 13,000 per sq mile; Novosibirsk, 7,600 per sq. mile; Yekaterininberg, 7,060; Nizhny Novgorod, 7,040. If you look at the core cities of American metropolitan centers of similar total population you see Los Angeles, 8,300 per sq mile; Philadelphia, 11,600; Cleveland, 5,100; and Pittsburgh, 5,500. So, Russian cities are comparatively densely settled. OTOH, Greater London has a density of 14,000 persons per sq. mile and greater Paris 9,700 persons per sq. mile.

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    • Replies: @Boris N
    I once gave a comparison: both the Dakotas have the density 5 persons per square km, the Voronezh region has 45. Voronezh is nearly 1 million, either Dakota has less people than one Russian provincial city. So when Dakotas would have at least 50 people per sq km then Americans may teach Russians how Russia is "underpopulated".
  131. @Art Deco
    Best I can tell, European Russia has within it about 700,000 sq miles for which the default biome is deciduous forest or steppe and Siberia has about 400,000 sq miles for which the same is true. You have a population of about 57,000,000 outside these biomes. That leaves you 92,000,000 within them, for a density of 84 persons per sq. mile. France has a density of 270 persons per sq. mile. If you exclude mountain, desert, boreal forest, and tundra, the United States has a higher density than the portion of Russia in question.

    As for your cities, Moscow has a density of about 15,000 person per sq. mile; St. Petersburg, 13,000 per sq mile; Novosibirsk, 7,600 per sq. mile; Yekaterininberg, 7,060; Nizhny Novgorod, 7,040. If you look at the core cities of American metropolitan centers of similar total population you see Los Angeles, 8,300 per sq mile; Philadelphia, 11,600; Cleveland, 5,100; and Pittsburgh, 5,500. So, Russian cities are comparatively densely settled. OTOH, Greater London has a density of 14,000 persons per sq. mile and greater Paris 9,700 persons per sq. mile.

    I once gave a comparison: both the Dakotas have the density 5 persons per square km, the Voronezh region has 45. Voronezh is nearly 1 million, either Dakota has less people than one Russian provincial city. So when Dakotas would have at least 50 people per sq km then Americans may teach Russians how Russia is “underpopulated”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    You've cherry picked one component of the North American steppe and compared it to a cherry-picked component of the Russian landscape (which is near the boundary of the deciduous forest and the steppe). The deciduous forest and steppe biomes in the United States have a population of about 260,000,000 spread over a land area of about 2,000,000 sq miles. That's a density of 130 per sq mile, about 70% higher than the comparable figure for Russia.

    I brought up the density of settlement in areas suitable for agriculture because you made such a fuss about how severe is Russia's climate. Compared to the United States (much less France), Russia's not that densely settled if you limit your comparison to regions with climates suitable for farming. That you can find portions of the United States less densely settled than portions of Russia does not refute that point.

    In the U.S., roughly 3/4 of the population lives in core cities, in suburban tract developments, or in discrete small towns. These areas eat up < 5% of the landscape and I'll wager the situation is much the same in Russia. You don't need a great deal of the landscape to house a large population in a modern economy. You could theoretically allocate 3,400 sq miles to residential and commercial development to house the population currently cooped up in Moscow, with the radius of the whole settlement increased by about 115%. Moscow revised would have a density characteristic of an ordinary mid-size American city (3-4,000 per sq mile). Less than 0.4% of the available inventory in Russia's forest and steppe biome would have to be reallocated to accomplish that. Russia's not 'overpopulated'. 'Overpopulation' is not a coherent concept except in areas of exceptionally dense agricultural settlement. Russia might benefit from better land use policies which would allow urban Russians more space as the country's level of affluence improves.

  132. @Parbes
    You're a wilfully obtuse, dishonest and nasty piece of work; and possibly autistic besides. You're also like a kind of poster boy for everything that's bad and mentally twisted about most of the Russian "opposition" today. Not worth answering in detail this dreck of falsehoods, distortions, exaggerations and silly grade-school logic that you posted here. Yeah, that's right, you deranged cuck; go ahead and depopulate Russia by another one-third because you're mad at the oligarchs and the current quality of public housing, and then see what happens next - good luck dealing with the social and economic crash, armed invasions, "alien race & religion" migrations, population replacement and etc., etc. after that.

    I'm done debating with your silly self.

    An aggressive dumb arrogant deranged American (European? whatever) is making ad hominem attacks. Next time when you rail at your Russophobic government and media look at a mirror, you’re no different, both are doing the same, just on different levels. Do not pretend you are a Russophile, you have nothing to do with the country. I may have a further discussion with you on the matter only when you will be living in Voronezh at least.

    Read More
  133. @Boris N
    I once gave a comparison: both the Dakotas have the density 5 persons per square km, the Voronezh region has 45. Voronezh is nearly 1 million, either Dakota has less people than one Russian provincial city. So when Dakotas would have at least 50 people per sq km then Americans may teach Russians how Russia is "underpopulated".

    You’ve cherry picked one component of the North American steppe and compared it to a cherry-picked component of the Russian landscape (which is near the boundary of the deciduous forest and the steppe). The deciduous forest and steppe biomes in the United States have a population of about 260,000,000 spread over a land area of about 2,000,000 sq miles. That’s a density of 130 per sq mile, about 70% higher than the comparable figure for Russia.

    I brought up the density of settlement in areas suitable for agriculture because you made such a fuss about how severe is Russia’s climate. Compared to the United States (much less France), Russia’s not that densely settled if you limit your comparison to regions with climates suitable for farming. That you can find portions of the United States less densely settled than portions of Russia does not refute that point.

    In the U.S., roughly 3/4 of the population lives in core cities, in suburban tract developments, or in discrete small towns. These areas eat up < 5% of the landscape and I'll wager the situation is much the same in Russia. You don't need a great deal of the landscape to house a large population in a modern economy. You could theoretically allocate 3,400 sq miles to residential and commercial development to house the population currently cooped up in Moscow, with the radius of the whole settlement increased by about 115%. Moscow revised would have a density characteristic of an ordinary mid-size American city (3-4,000 per sq mile). Less than 0.4% of the available inventory in Russia's forest and steppe biome would have to be reallocated to accomplish that. Russia's not 'overpopulated'. 'Overpopulation' is not a coherent concept except in areas of exceptionally dense agricultural settlement. Russia might benefit from better land use policies which would allow urban Russians more space as the country’s level of affluence improves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N
    I didn't cherry picked, I've been carefully and attentively comparing Russian and American geography, Voronezh and the Dakotas have a very good if not perfect similarity, nearly one-to-one in terms of climate and overall geography. I didn't come to my conclusion on a sudden. Though SD has hotter summers so the annual average temp. is +9 C in Sioux Falls vs Voronezh +6 C, but Fargo is pretty close. Do not expect me to compare Voronezh with Texas or even Ohio.

    I can compare Minnesota or Wisconsin with more northerly forest Russian regions. But even then the most northerly, practically empty Minnesota is like Kazan (>1m).

    'Overpopulation' is not a coherent concept except in areas of exceptionally dense agricultural settlement.
     
    It is a good concept because every land has its limits in sustainability. You speak about landscapes which have hardly anything to with it (Russians are not bears or moose to choose between forest or steppe), but you ignore such principally important things as climate, soil, water, and overall geography. What is the point of how many forest/steppe the USA and Russia have if in quite northern DC climate is milder than in Krasnodar? Why do you expect from Russians to live and multiply in an environment in which few if any Americans ever want to live?

    Russia's not 'overpopulated'.
     
    Then America is an empty desert. Yet Americans whine everyday how is their country "overpopulated" and "no more".
  134. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Corvinus
    "And I maintain that using Exodus and Deuteronomy for this is like saying the Magna Carta calls for killing Communists."

    Maintain all you want, the passages clearly state that non-Christians ought to die at worst or be forced to convert at best.

    Maintain all you want, the passages clearly state that non-Christians ought to die at worst or be forced to convert at best.

    Lying again.

    Read More
  135. anon says:     Show CommentNext New Comment
    @Corvinus
    "2) It’s an invocation against others trying to convert Jews to other religions not conquering other religions"

    The passage clearly calls for Christians to murder non-Christians. Are you blind?

    3) St. Augustine isn’t the bible.

    But it is an example of Christians persecuting non-Christians, which is right up your alley.

    "4) However all this is simply a deflection from you lying about what is in the Koran. This is not an argument over whether the Koran is worse/better than the Bible. It’s an argument over the media, politicians and people like you lying about what is in it. Anyone can have a quick read of the Koran themselves online and see you are blatantly lying."

    The Bible and the Koran both call for the murdering of infidels. How am I lying?

    The passage clearly calls for Christians to murder non-Christians. Are you blind?

    There were no Christians when Deuteronomy was written.

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "There were no Christians when Deuteronomy was written."

    So what. The early Christians were heavily influenced by its message.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deuteronomy#Christianity
  136. Dear Mr. Derbyshire:

    Sometime ago, you said that the African-American variant of Islam may be less dangerous than mainstream Islam.

    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Religion/farrakhan.htm

    Care to eat your words?

    Many black Americans are converting to Islam. I don’t think our elites are eager to abolish affirmative action anytime soon.

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    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The main body of black Muslims in the United States is the American Society of Muslims, which is led by W.D. Muhammed Jr, the grandson of Elijah Muhammed. They're an orthodox Sunni outfit who've rejected Elijah Muhammed's theological innovations. The Nation of Islam (Farrakhan's outfit) seceded from the organization led by W.D. Muhammed Sr. (Elijah Muhammed's son) and adopted the original organizational name, maintaining the heretical theology. There aren't any authoritative figures on the relative size of the two organizations. Press reports at the time Farrakhan emerged as a public figure ca. 1983 offered the guess that W.D. Muhammed's outfit had about 10x the membership of Farrakhan's.
  137. The Nation of Islam is a very different thing than either Shia or Sunni Islam. Never heard of a Nation of Islam suicide bomber.

    And everything is relative. Sure I don’t care to have Muslim immigration. But my take is a Muslim area in Paris is FAR less dangerous than Detroit. And as I said, the Nation of Islam is really more of a Islam flavored new sect, akin to Mormonism in some ways, than an offshoot of mainstream Islam.

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  138. @anon

    The passage clearly calls for Christians to murder non-Christians. Are you blind?
     
    There were no Christians when Deuteronomy was written.

    “There were no Christians when Deuteronomy was written.”

    So what. The early Christians were heavily influenced by its message.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Deuteronomy#Christianity

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  139. @Gene Su
    Dear Mr. Derbyshire:

    Sometime ago, you said that the African-American variant of Islam may be less dangerous than mainstream Islam.

    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Religion/farrakhan.htm

    Care to eat your words?

    Many black Americans are converting to Islam. I don't think our elites are eager to abolish affirmative action anytime soon.

    The main body of black Muslims in the United States is the American Society of Muslims, which is led by W.D. Muhammed Jr, the grandson of Elijah Muhammed. They’re an orthodox Sunni outfit who’ve rejected Elijah Muhammed’s theological innovations. The Nation of Islam (Farrakhan’s outfit) seceded from the organization led by W.D. Muhammed Sr. (Elijah Muhammed’s son) and adopted the original organizational name, maintaining the heretical theology. There aren’t any authoritative figures on the relative size of the two organizations. Press reports at the time Farrakhan emerged as a public figure ca. 1983 offered the guess that W.D. Muhammed’s outfit had about 10x the membership of Farrakhan’s.

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  140. @Philip Owen
    The UK was busy populated Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Canada. It still is. Emigration is still substantial and it is not the unskilled lower class who emigrate.

    No, quite. In New Zealand we get those dreadfully dull, thrusting and predictable types from whatever tedious English location they cling to with their frightful pedoball shirts and Boden skirting.
    They are the type who ape their betters by vainly and pathetically assuming an air of world wariness and detachment but their lackings are too clear.
    They will never understand how New Zealander’s get on with each other naturally and take a long time to understand that asking what people “do” is considered knaff and uninteresting.

    In the spirit of fairness; we also get hoards of South Africans who are even more bovine in their parochial tedium and are even less interesting. They do bring advanced racism and a penchant for petty theft so that makes them, at least slightly, colourful.

    New Zealand is a beautiful place. Don’t go there.

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  141. @Art Deco
    You've cherry picked one component of the North American steppe and compared it to a cherry-picked component of the Russian landscape (which is near the boundary of the deciduous forest and the steppe). The deciduous forest and steppe biomes in the United States have a population of about 260,000,000 spread over a land area of about 2,000,000 sq miles. That's a density of 130 per sq mile, about 70% higher than the comparable figure for Russia.

    I brought up the density of settlement in areas suitable for agriculture because you made such a fuss about how severe is Russia's climate. Compared to the United States (much less France), Russia's not that densely settled if you limit your comparison to regions with climates suitable for farming. That you can find portions of the United States less densely settled than portions of Russia does not refute that point.

    In the U.S., roughly 3/4 of the population lives in core cities, in suburban tract developments, or in discrete small towns. These areas eat up < 5% of the landscape and I'll wager the situation is much the same in Russia. You don't need a great deal of the landscape to house a large population in a modern economy. You could theoretically allocate 3,400 sq miles to residential and commercial development to house the population currently cooped up in Moscow, with the radius of the whole settlement increased by about 115%. Moscow revised would have a density characteristic of an ordinary mid-size American city (3-4,000 per sq mile). Less than 0.4% of the available inventory in Russia's forest and steppe biome would have to be reallocated to accomplish that. Russia's not 'overpopulated'. 'Overpopulation' is not a coherent concept except in areas of exceptionally dense agricultural settlement. Russia might benefit from better land use policies which would allow urban Russians more space as the country's level of affluence improves.

    I didn’t cherry picked, I’ve been carefully and attentively comparing Russian and American geography, Voronezh and the Dakotas have a very good if not perfect similarity, nearly one-to-one in terms of climate and overall geography. I didn’t come to my conclusion on a sudden. Though SD has hotter summers so the annual average temp. is +9 C in Sioux Falls vs Voronezh +6 C, but Fargo is pretty close. Do not expect me to compare Voronezh with Texas or even Ohio.

    I can compare Minnesota or Wisconsin with more northerly forest Russian regions. But even then the most northerly, practically empty Minnesota is like Kazan (>1m).

    ‘Overpopulation’ is not a coherent concept except in areas of exceptionally dense agricultural settlement.

    It is a good concept because every land has its limits in sustainability. You speak about landscapes which have hardly anything to with it (Russians are not bears or moose to choose between forest or steppe), but you ignore such principally important things as climate, soil, water, and overall geography. What is the point of how many forest/steppe the USA and Russia have if in quite northern DC climate is milder than in Krasnodar? Why do you expect from Russians to live and multiply in an environment in which few if any Americans ever want to live?

    Russia’s not ‘overpopulated’.

    Then America is an empty desert. Yet Americans whine everyday how is their country “overpopulated” and “no more”.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    Your examples were cherry-picked. I'm sorry the concept escapes you.


    What is the point of how many forest/steppe the USA and Russia have if in quite northern DC climate is milder than in Krasnodar? Why do you expect from Russians to live and multiply in an environment in which few if any Americans ever want to live?

    The point was to compare the density of settlement in regions suitable for agriculture. This isn't that difficult.
  142. @Boris N
    I didn't cherry picked, I've been carefully and attentively comparing Russian and American geography, Voronezh and the Dakotas have a very good if not perfect similarity, nearly one-to-one in terms of climate and overall geography. I didn't come to my conclusion on a sudden. Though SD has hotter summers so the annual average temp. is +9 C in Sioux Falls vs Voronezh +6 C, but Fargo is pretty close. Do not expect me to compare Voronezh with Texas or even Ohio.

    I can compare Minnesota or Wisconsin with more northerly forest Russian regions. But even then the most northerly, practically empty Minnesota is like Kazan (>1m).

    'Overpopulation' is not a coherent concept except in areas of exceptionally dense agricultural settlement.
     
    It is a good concept because every land has its limits in sustainability. You speak about landscapes which have hardly anything to with it (Russians are not bears or moose to choose between forest or steppe), but you ignore such principally important things as climate, soil, water, and overall geography. What is the point of how many forest/steppe the USA and Russia have if in quite northern DC climate is milder than in Krasnodar? Why do you expect from Russians to live and multiply in an environment in which few if any Americans ever want to live?

    Russia's not 'overpopulated'.
     
    Then America is an empty desert. Yet Americans whine everyday how is their country "overpopulated" and "no more".

    Your examples were cherry-picked. I’m sorry the concept escapes you.

    What is the point of how many forest/steppe the USA and Russia have if in quite northern DC climate is milder than in Krasnodar? Why do you expect from Russians to live and multiply in an environment in which few if any Americans ever want to live?

    The point was to compare the density of settlement in regions suitable for agriculture. This isn’t that difficult.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Boris N

    Your examples were cherry-picked. I’m sorry the concept escapes you.
     
    No, I reapeat, it is not. Do you have a slightest idea about Russian geography? Or where at least Voronezh is situated? Or what the hell is that place? I start to doubt that.

    The point was to compare the density of settlement in regions suitable for agriculture. This isn’t that difficult.
     
    It is not that simple. Or rather your proposal is the most simplistic. Totally ignoring real very complex geographical science.
  143. @Art Deco
    Your examples were cherry-picked. I'm sorry the concept escapes you.


    What is the point of how many forest/steppe the USA and Russia have if in quite northern DC climate is milder than in Krasnodar? Why do you expect from Russians to live and multiply in an environment in which few if any Americans ever want to live?

    The point was to compare the density of settlement in regions suitable for agriculture. This isn't that difficult.

    Your examples were cherry-picked. I’m sorry the concept escapes you.

    No, I reapeat, it is not. Do you have a slightest idea about Russian geography? Or where at least Voronezh is situated? Or what the hell is that place? I start to doubt that.

    The point was to compare the density of settlement in regions suitable for agriculture. This isn’t that difficult.

    It is not that simple. Or rather your proposal is the most simplistic. Totally ignoring real very complex geographical science.

    Read More
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Limbaugh and company certainly entertain. But a steady diet of ideological comfort food is no substitute for hearty intellectual fare.
Once as a colonial project, now as a moral playground, the ancient continent remains the object of Great Power maneuvering