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What Would Korean War II Look Like?
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“If China is not going to solve North Korea, we will.”

So thundered President Donald Trump last week. Unfortunately, neither China nor North Korea appeared intimidated by this presidential bombast or Trump’s Tweets.

What would ‘we will’ actually entail? This clear threat makes us think seriously about what a second Korean War would be like. Memory of the bloody, indecisive first Koran War, 1950-53, which killed close to 3 million people, has faded. Few Americans have any idea how ferocious a conventional second Korean War could be. They are used to seeing Uncle Sam beat up small, nearly defenseless nations like Iraq, Libya or Syria that dare defy the Pax Americana.

The US could literally blow North Korea off the map using tactical nuclear weapons based in Japan, South Korea and at sea with the 7th Fleet. Or delivered by B-52 and B-1 bombers and cruise missiles. But this would cause clouds of lethal radiation and radioactive dust to blanket Japan, South Korea and heavily industrialized northeast China, including the capital, Beijing.

China would be expected to threaten retaliation against the United States, Japan and South Korea to deter a nuclear war in next door Korea. At the same time, if heavily attacked, a fight-to-the-end North Korea may fire off a number of nuclear-armed medium-range missiles at Tokyo, Osaka, Okinawa and South Korea. These missiles are hidden in caves in the mountains on wheeled transporters and hard to identify and knock out.

This is a huge risk. Such a nuclear exchange would expose about a third of the world’s economy to nuclear contamination, not to mention spreading nuclear winter around the globe.

A conventional US attack on North Korea would be far more difficult. The North is a small nation of only 24.8 million. Its air and sea forces are obsolete and ineffective. They would be vaporized on the first day of a war. But North Korea’s million-man army has been training and digging in for decades to resist a US invasion. Pyongyang’s 88,000-man Special Forces are poised for suicide attacks on South Korea’s political and military command and control and to cripple key US and South Korean air bases, notably Osan and Kunsan.

North Korea may use chemical weapons such as VX and Sarin to knock out the US/South Korean and Japanese airbases, military depots, ports and communications hubs. Missile attacks would be launched against US bases in Guam and Okinawa.

Short of using nuclear weapons, the US would be faced with mounting a major invasion of mountainous North Korea, something for which it is today unprepared. It took the US six months to assemble a land force in Saudi Arabia just to attack feeble Iraq. Taking on the tough North Korean army and militia in their mountain redoubts will prove a daunting challenge.

ORDER IT NOW

US analysts have in the past estimated a US invasion of North Korea would cost some 250,000 American casualties and at least $10 billion, though I believe such a war would cost four times that much today. The Army, Air Force and Marines would have to mobilize reserves to wage a war in Korea. Already overstretched US forces would have to be withdrawn from Europe and the Mideast. Military conscription might have to be re-introduced.

US war planners believe that an attempt to assassinate or isolate North Korean leader Kim Jung-un – known in the military as ‘decapitation’- would cause the North Korean armed forces to scatter and give up. I don’t think so.

My visits to South and North Korea have shown me that soldiers of both nations are amazingly tough, patriotic and ready to fight. I’ve also been under the Demilitarized Zone in some of the warren of secret tunnels built by North Korea under South Korean fortifications. Hundreds of North Korean long-range 170mm guns and rocket batteries are buried into the hills facing the DMZ, all within range of the northern half of South Korea’s capital, Seoul.

North Korea is unlikely to be a pushover in a war. Even after US/South Korean forces occupy Pyongyang, the North has prepared for a long guerilla war in the mountains that could last for decades. They have been practicing for 30 years. Chaos in North Korea will invite Chinese military intervention, but not necessarily to the advantage of the US and its allies.

Is Commander-in-Chief Trump, who somehow managed to avoid military service during the Vietnam War, really ready to launch a big war in Asia? Most Americans still can’t locate Korea on a map. Will Congress tax every American taxpayer $20,000 to pay for a new Korean war? Will Russia sit by quietly while the US blows apart North Korea? Does anyone in the White House know that North Korea borders on Russia and is less than 200km from the key Russian port of Vladivostok?

All this craziness would be ended if the US signed a peace treaty with North Korea ending the first Korean War and opened up diplomatic and commercial relations. No need for war or missile threats. North Korea is a horrid, brutal regime. But so is Egypt, whose tin pot dictator was wined and dined by Trump last week.

But pounding the rostrum with your shoe is always much more fun than boring peace talks.

* * *

Here are some films I shot in South and North Korea three years ago:

(Republished from EricMargolis.com by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    “My visits to South and North Korea have shown me that soldiers of both nations are amazingly tough, patriotic and ready to fight.”

    Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans.

    A bunch of morons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha

    A bunch of morons.
     
    Note to everybody that masturbates to "High IQ" - if this war happens - it will be a colossal failure of the most intelligent populations on the planet and the destructive capabilities unleashed will be isolated to them.

    Just sayin'.

    Peace.
    , @basedKRN

    Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans.

    A bunch of morons.
     
    Morons, just like all those who died in the Civil War.

    But you're right, in the sense I think both sides have been deceived by our Soviet/US imperialist masters. During the war, Chinese (maybe Soviet as well?)-backed North Korean soldiers fought out of fear of US imperialism over their people, and US-backed South Korean soldiers fought out of fear of Communist rule over their people. You can see this in the movie, Taegukgi. We have been fools, deceived on both sides by Soviet Communism and American Imperialism. I hope we unify and gain independence but it is only a dream as of now.
    , @JGarbo
    Any more moronic than Americans killing Americans? The two Koreas were invented by imperialism and their populations condition over decades to fear each other. Simple manipulation of human nature.
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  2. Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America’s list of villains? The regime has had nuclear weapons and some ballistic missile capacity for some time. But they seem to me to be mostly oriented towards a garrison state. The Norks seem no nuttier now than any time I remember. If the U.S. simply left this regional actor to be managed by other regional powers (e.g., South Korea, Japan and China) a lot of the incentive on the part of North Korea to make threats and attract attention would diminish significantly.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Franklin
    The regime has had nuclear weapons and some ballistic missile capacity for some time.


    NK doesn't have any missiles that can reach the US as yet.

    NK also hasn't miniaturized their nukes sufficiently to mount on a ICBM as yet.

    By international treaties, Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella, meaning the US is obligated by law to protect these countries if they are attacked.

    You could argue that the US should tear up the treaties, but then Japan would likely re-militarize and South Korea would probably build nuclear weapons to counteract the NK nukes.
    , @daniel le mouche
    'Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America’s list of villains?'

    Don't be silly, we don't need a reason. Just think as you're told and march in lock step with what our (and Trump's) masters decide. Do we need another war? Of course! Gotta sell weapons, gotta keep everyone on war footing, beligerent (from their couches) and full of hate.
  3. dearieme says:

    “Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans”. You could say that of the American “patriots” of 1776 who were revved up to kill fellow Britons.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {You could say that of the American “patriots” of 1776 who were revved up to kill fellow Britons.}

    You could also say that about the 4 year long US Civil War.
    Both sides considered themselves very patriotic Americans, yet were revved up to kill each other to a total of about 785,000-1,000,000 KIA. Considering US population was about 20-25 million around then, that was huge number of dead.

  4. Turns out Trump is just another lying murdering piece of shit. At 72 I have seen a number of these ass holes come and go. But it took Trump to finally convince me that only a crushing and humiliating military defeat will stop Imperial aggression. Unless the dollar goes to zero before that happens. The FED’s ability to counterfeit dollars in the trillions is the only source of Imperial power. When the dollar’s reign has ended the U.S. will be just another big country in the Americas.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey WC,

    This guy is turning out to be way worse than Obama - and possibly running neck and neck with an imagined Hillary presidency - how the hell did that happen??!! Like Diversity Heretic said, I think the only ones that have kicked this into overdrive is us - we created a problem by issuing another stupid ultimatum/threat.


    only a crushing and humiliating military defeat will stop Imperial aggression
     
    Well, it worked for the Swedes - they had an empire and then they marched into Russia (destination Moscow) - bingo! No more empire or imperial designs after that one. Their king had to hightail it to the Ottoman Empire for safety - no kidding. Then there was some dude named Napoleon, let me tell you about him...and Russia...

    Peace.

  5. @Diversity Heretic
    Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America's list of villains? The regime has had nuclear weapons and some ballistic missile capacity for some time. But they seem to me to be mostly oriented towards a garrison state. The Norks seem no nuttier now than any time I remember. If the U.S. simply left this regional actor to be managed by other regional powers (e.g., South Korea, Japan and China) a lot of the incentive on the part of North Korea to make threats and attract attention would diminish significantly.

    The regime has had nuclear weapons and some ballistic missile capacity for some time.

    NK doesn’t have any missiles that can reach the US as yet.

    NK also hasn’t miniaturized their nukes sufficiently to mount on a ICBM as yet.

    By international treaties, Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella, meaning the US is obligated by law to protect these countries if they are attacked.

    You could argue that the US should tear up the treaties, but then Japan would likely re-militarize and South Korea would probably build nuclear weapons to counteract the NK nukes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Vendetta
    Why not allow that?
    , @Chris Mallory

    By international treaties, Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella, meaning the US is obligated by law to protect these countries if they are attacked.
     
    What court has jurisdiction if the American people decided that we were not going to send our kids do die on the other side of the world on behalf of Japanese or Koreans?


    You could argue that the US should tear up the treaties, but then Japan would likely re-militarize and South Korea would probably build nuclear weapons to counteract the NK nukes.
     
    Sounds like a plan. We should pull every US military unit out of Asia and let the Japanese and SoKo's defend themselves.
  6. The Scalpel says: • Website

    North Korea does not need missiles to deliver nuclear weapons to the USA. All they have to do is sneak one across the Mexico US border. They have probably already done it. Another possibility is commandos being released from a submarine with a nuclear weapon that they transport into a coastal city. Another possibility is a nuclear weapon on a merchant ship in a coastal city, etc.

    If the USA attacks North Korea there will be a nuclear explosion in the USA. There is very little doubt about it

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If the North Koreans would do those things - then they need to be bombed into the stone age until every single Nork is eradicated from this earth.

    The future of the world depends upon the complete elimination of North Korea.
    , @Anonymous
    This all strikes me as a set of useful strategies for ISIS and friends, but I suspect this all involves too much advance planning for Fatboy Kim. Does he really have any goals aside from living until next year? He's probably got a nice selection of booze and women, but not much in the way of expected lifespan.
    (Would he nuke us if he could do it with one order? In a suicide scenario, yes.)
  7. I agree with “the Scalpel’s” conclusion on the likelihood of some nuclear blast within the US if it attacks North Korea. I agree with Mr. Margolis’ column and anybody who thinks serious damage over a wide area would not ensue is naive. Not even mentioned by Mr. Margolis but noted elsewhere is the fact that South Korean nuclear power plants are within range of North Korean artillery. All that would have to occur is several of these reactors being hit by conventional artillery to create serious radioactive contamination.

    Read More
  8. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @The Scalpel
    North Korea does not need missiles to deliver nuclear weapons to the USA. All they have to do is sneak one across the Mexico US border. They have probably already done it. Another possibility is commandos being released from a submarine with a nuclear weapon that they transport into a coastal city. Another possibility is a nuclear weapon on a merchant ship in a coastal city, etc.

    If the USA attacks North Korea there will be a nuclear explosion in the USA. There is very little doubt about it

    If the North Koreans would do those things – then they need to be bombed into the stone age until every single Nork is eradicated from this earth.

    The future of the world depends upon the complete elimination of North Korea.

    Read More
    • Troll: utu
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Hmm that's just like saying that the U.S. should be bombed back to the stone age for what it did to the countries in Asia, the Mid-East the death squads in South America and our on going wars,come to think about it that just might be a very good idea destroy one country to save the world...
    , @Duglarri
    I can understand your (all too common) exhortation to what-the-heck, let's just kill them all- but what if the best analogy for the North Korean regime is actually a vast hostage-taking? Little 'Un" has millions of people hostage. And what you're saying, is, kill the hostages.
  9. Anony says:

    Your list of possible targets: “Tokyo, Osaka, Okinawa and South Korea

    I would add Beijing. If China does not appear to defend North Korea against an invasion then Kim will be angry enough at China during his final moments to strike back at China or worse for China Kim suspects Chinese collusion in the invasion and will want to hit Beijing as a final act of revenge.

    Read More
  10. “Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans.”

    There was that time Americans killed 750,000 of each other in what’s become that national Holy of Holies, the Civil War.

    “Bunch of morons.”

    It certainly proves the inferiority of the human race.

    Read More
    • Replies: @glenn davis
    Which race would you prefer to join since you no longer wish to be of this inferior race?
  11. unit472 says:

    This article is pure BS. Let’s begin with your claims on atomic warfare. North Korea’s ability to attack with atomic weapons is not even at the same level the US possessed in 1945. We had achieved enough air supremacy to believe we could deliver the ( two) experimental atomic devices we had built and did not have to fear any retaliation in kind.

    Atomic bombs maximize their blast and heat effect from an airburst such that the initial fireball does not reach the ground. Only those directly beneath the atomic reaction receive high dosages of radiation in this circumstance. Radioactive fallout from nuclear testing in the 50′s and 60′s was the result of open air testing of enhanced yield fission bombs and the new ‘hydrogen’ bombs so powerful there was no way to test them without vast amounts of dust, ash and water vapor being drawn up in the detonation, irradiated and then drifting downwind. This problem resulted in the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty prohibiting open air testing. The idea that North Korea with a handful ( if that) of primitive low yield atomic bombs could blanket the Korean peninsula ( and beyond) with radioactive fallout or ‘nuclear winter’ is ignorant. OTOH if we give them time they might be able to develop megaton level nuclear weapons and ICBMs to deliver them. It took the US 9 years from initial atomic capability to build a deliverable ( by a huge B-36 bomber) 5 megaton atomic bomb. North Korea doesn’t have to invent the technology just copy it so their timeline could be shorter. Who wants to find out?

    I’ve gone on long enough but your conventional war scenario seems equally faulty. It is redolent of the claims made for Saddam Hussein’s ‘battle hardened’ million man army before Desert Storm except that Iraq’s military equipment was less obsolete than what North Korea possesses today.

    Read More
    • Replies: @edNels
    You make some good points and in particular, remembering the ''hype'' of Saddam's ominous force, IE: that got wasted in the ''turkey shoot''/ route valley of death trying to evacuate Kuwait. The Republican Guards never seemed to make much of a dent either.
    Highly over rated, seems like.

    But another reason to wonder about veracity of much of the speculations about so many of the fear productions that we are continuously subjected to might be: ( albeit… naively here,) why didn't a true coalition of Willing states "Nip it in the Bud'' before now?

    Conversely, why should anybody feel comfortable the Boogie man countries often maligned: NK, Iran, especially! or some other rogue state'' couldn't obtain modern Weapons and delivery capabilities/ including contriving covert placement... on the sly!

    Why did the world let NK get this far when it's been on the radar for 60yrs? Is this the definition of benign Neglect or other tactics, or Maya?

    Well they could blame the Democrats for that, but wouldn't be much of a dodge, as everything at that level must be more than bipartisan, or national security limited, but in the purview of the world at large.
    , @Prometheus
    unit472: They don't need nuclear missiles. It would just take an artillery strike on any of South Korea's 25 nuclear reactors to do turn South Korea into an uninhabitable wasteland... and trigger WW3
  12. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @The Scalpel
    North Korea does not need missiles to deliver nuclear weapons to the USA. All they have to do is sneak one across the Mexico US border. They have probably already done it. Another possibility is commandos being released from a submarine with a nuclear weapon that they transport into a coastal city. Another possibility is a nuclear weapon on a merchant ship in a coastal city, etc.

    If the USA attacks North Korea there will be a nuclear explosion in the USA. There is very little doubt about it

    This all strikes me as a set of useful strategies for ISIS and friends, but I suspect this all involves too much advance planning for Fatboy Kim. Does he really have any goals aside from living until next year? He’s probably got a nice selection of booze and women, but not much in the way of expected lifespan.
    (Would he nuke us if he could do it with one order? In a suicide scenario, yes.)

    Read More
  13. Vendetta says:
    @Joe Franklin
    The regime has had nuclear weapons and some ballistic missile capacity for some time.


    NK doesn't have any missiles that can reach the US as yet.

    NK also hasn't miniaturized their nukes sufficiently to mount on a ICBM as yet.

    By international treaties, Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella, meaning the US is obligated by law to protect these countries if they are attacked.

    You could argue that the US should tear up the treaties, but then Japan would likely re-militarize and South Korea would probably build nuclear weapons to counteract the NK nukes.

    Why not allow that?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Joe Franklin

    Why not allow that?

     

    Because a re-militarized Japan and a nuclear South Korea would cause China in particular to react, probably in a very bad way.

    China would likely challenge Japan before Japan could complete its re-militarization.

    China would also likely pre-emptively strike South Korea to prevent them from fielding a nuclear weapon.

    A re-militarized Japan would cause all Far-East Asian nations to react, probably with their own military buildup and more war fever tension overall in Asia.

    The US will likely get drawn into any conflict anyway, because US mutual interests with Japan and SK (trade, defense, respect and trust) would be at stake.

    The US considers Japan and South Korea to be allies regardless of any treaty, and will probably defend both nations if their survival is at stake.
    , @Joe Wong
    That will not sit very well with American global full spectrum dominance and end the day that American can commit war crimes, crimes against peace and crimes against humanity on the phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention.
  14. If china won’t do something about this dictator,WE WILL!
    Goddam right!!!!!

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    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
    'If china won’t do something about this dictator,WE WILL!
    Goddam right!!!!!'

    The timeless, eternal American He-Man. Now he's in a guise with yellow hair styled more bizarrely than anything Kim Jong-il wore.
    Well, it's been what, three months? Plenty of time to forget all campaign promises. Remember? Get out of all these foreign wars, bring manufacturing back, make America great again?
  15. If there were ever a Just Cause for the Yanks to invade and bring democracy somewhere, it would be North Korea.
    The horrors that generations of North Koreans in concentration camps are enduring, would even make the holo-jews cringe.

    Then again, is Israel ready to take a second row seat on the holocaust narrative and let the North Koreans take the gold medal of international victimhood?
    And what do you do with millions of people coping with culture shock, paranoia, etc.?
    And, last but not least, who would make our clothing for 5 cents a piece?

    All in all. I do not think the Israeli’s would let the USA attack North Korea.

    Read More
    • Replies: @nsa
    Zero chance of any attack on Korea beyond a prearranged choreographed pinprick. The explanation is simple: nothing in it for the Jooies and Izzies who worked overtime to install a US government of the jooies, by the jooies, for the jooies. Why would they waste their satrap's assets when they could be used on Iran?
  16. bob sykes says:

    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn’t in Korea I and Vietnam. And China’s strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America’s main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The new fat guy has seriously upset the Chinese.
    , @Intelligent Dasein
    Sir, you are the only one talking sense here.

    +100
    , @Avery
    {We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. }

    Almost true.

    Imperial Japan was no Nazi Germany.
    Although Japanese were tenacious fighters and they had first-rate military hardware*, U.S. and U.S. Navy were a rung above the Imperial Japanese military. Japan simply did not have the resources or the industrial might of U.S.

    By the time Allies (really the U.S.) landed in Europe in 1944, Wehrmacht was a spent force: 80% of its best, toughest units were destroyed on the Eastern Front. Even then, at the Battle of the Bulge U.S. troops ran from the advancing Germans (mostly**). GIs were saved by the powerful USAF when the skies cleared up.

    So we don't really have a good example of peer-to-peer land warfare for US military (other than the US Civil War).

    ----
    * Zero was considered superior to US equipment in the beginning.
    ** Heroic defense of Bastogne.

    , @Dale
    I'm glad Trump is keeping Xi in the loop, and hopefully having constructive discussions, because this is NOT the business of the USA.
    , @Carroll Price

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias.
     
    The US not winning a war since 1945 is per design. Big money is made fighting wars, not winning them.
    , @MikeFromOrk
    "What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire."

    It's about time, too. There are too many Americans today who feel that America is defined by our physical homeland and ability to bully others economically and militarily, making America no better than any other thuggish empire in times past. The "with us or against us" crowd of fist pumping flag wavers.

    The freedoms (some of which came much, much later in our history to some citizens than for others) that actually had made America great in past have been eviscerated in the name of security and safety, to the point that we now have a government which feels entitled to stick its nose in your private communications lest you be guilty of contributing money to a non-profit which used to employ a janitor whose second cousin matches the description of someone brown-colored who suspiciously bought several lengths of pipe in his local hardware store AND went on vacation to Afghanistan several years ago. Oh, and SWAT teams in riot gear being used to serve warrants to non-violent offenders. Nothing new to you Unz folks so I'll quit my blabbing.
    , @Eileen Kuch
    Bob Sykes, I totally agree with your analogy. China's military has come a long way since the Korean War of 1950-53. Back then, as you said, the Chinese military was quite primitive; yet, it was able to drive a much more advanced US/NATO army back across the 38th Parallel in waves. Militarily, the US/NATO suffered a major defeat, and the war itself ended with an armistice.
    Today, however, would be an even worse scenario, as China's military is totally modernized with superior aircraft, naval vessels and weapons systems. The Chinese have vowed to let no invaders near the Yalu River; so, Pentagon and the Trump Administration beware .. Don't do anything that will not only provoke North Korea, but China as well.
  17. “Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America’s list of villains?”

    Existed without showing the fealty expected of lesser states.

    “It took the US six months to assemble a land force in Saudi Arabia just to attack feeble Iraq.”

    Well, to be fair, Iraq’s army was somewhat feared at the time … even in the second go-around, we expected it to be a bit of a slog, but the wankers wouldn’t even put up much of a fight even for their homeland … at least, not until we declared victory.

    “Memory of the bloody, indecisive first Koran War ….”

    Freudian slip ???

    “North Korea is a horrid, brutal regime.”

    As Henry David Thoreau once wrote, “How can you know that which you are merely told?”

    “US war planners believe that an attempt to assassinate or isolate North Korean leader Kim Jung-un – known in the military as ‘decapitation’- would cause the North Korean armed forces to scatter and give up.”

    To your point, see Iraq and Libya to see how that works out lately. BTW, isn’t that a war crime?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    "but the wankers wouldn’t even put up much of a fight even for their homeland"

    You have heard of the saying, live to fight another day, right? The smart know that.

    Over 4000 dead and 30000 maimed crusader scum is ample proof of that. No?

    Sure, the number of Muslims who died is far higher, but if they truly believed they don't have much to fear anyway.

    Can't say the same for those 4000 scum. Yes!!
    , @BASUDEB
    Why all these talks of war? What has NK done to anybody? They know the few atomic weapons they have are their only safeguard against a US attack. They are being intimidated all along. Why not let them go their own way. They did not succeed in building their economy in a strong way mainly because of sanctions. The US is afraid to see a successful Cuba or North Korea. That's a fact. You protect Saudi and attack North Korea. Is it not ridiculous from a moral point of view?
  18. @Joe Franklin
    The regime has had nuclear weapons and some ballistic missile capacity for some time.


    NK doesn't have any missiles that can reach the US as yet.

    NK also hasn't miniaturized their nukes sufficiently to mount on a ICBM as yet.

    By international treaties, Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella, meaning the US is obligated by law to protect these countries if they are attacked.

    You could argue that the US should tear up the treaties, but then Japan would likely re-militarize and South Korea would probably build nuclear weapons to counteract the NK nukes.

    By international treaties, Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella, meaning the US is obligated by law to protect these countries if they are attacked.

    What court has jurisdiction if the American people decided that we were not going to send our kids do die on the other side of the world on behalf of Japanese or Koreans?

    You could argue that the US should tear up the treaties, but then Japan would likely re-militarize and South Korea would probably build nuclear weapons to counteract the NK nukes.

    Sounds like a plan. We should pull every US military unit out of Asia and let the Japanese and SoKo’s defend themselves.

    Read More
    • Replies: @basedKRN

    What court has jurisdiction if the American people decided that we were not going to send our kids do die on the other side of the world on behalf of Japanese or Koreans?
     
    Indeed. Enough Americans have died for our nation and as someone who loves America I'd rather they stay out. Although we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China.

    Sounds like a plan. We should pull every US military unit out of Asia and let the Japanese and SoKo’s defend themselves.
     
    This is sensible. Just as one cannot always rely on his bigger brother to take care of him or protect him from enemies, a nation must be able to protect itself from others. I don't see another way around it. This is controversial but I say let all countries have nukes; the incentive for war goes down under MAD.
  19. I picked up a batch of old Rollingstone magazines from my local library for pennies to use as bathroom/breakfast reading. One issue had Matt Taibbi following Trump on the campaign trail while still battling for the Republican party nomination. In this leg of his tour he talked about how big insurance conglomerates were setting the prices to their liking and how he as president would bust them up etc.. Then came the commentary from Duck Dynasty types on how they are sick and tired of paying high premiums and so on. It gave me a minor epiphany, namely that this guy is, was and always will be full of shit in other words nothing but a super salesman.

    While I was happy that he blew away the syphilitic structure of the mainstream parties and the press I now realize that the volatile and insane world now has a monkey with a machine gun in a major position of power. This can’t end well.

    The Great Pumpkin cut his jib by beating up other businessmen in the vicious world of East coast real estate. In this world he had the MacArthur motto for there being ‘no substitute for victory’. If he transmogrifies his business instincts onto the world stage, stock up on rice and beans (and iodine tablets).

    The simple scenario germane to this article is if Trump deploys a carrier fleet even closer to the proximity of the Norks. Who thinks fat boy Jong-Un is sane? Ivanka? Sending even just conventional missiles across the bow is well within his mental construct. With their faulty accuracy they could accidentally hit the target. A carrier sunk. What options does Trump have now? None really. It’s show time and by probable extension, “overture, curtains, lights, this is it night of nights…”

    To those interested in the Korean War, I highly recommend David Halberstam’s posthumous book, The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War. It is not a standard military chronicle instead a spellbinding journalistic read. Major theme, MacArthur’s super ego, pomposity and geo-political ignorance resulting in catastrophe. American troops experienced the thrill of Stalingrad. In an eerie way, Trump now has a chance of becoming American Caesar 2.0 and in the very same playground. History repeats, rhymes whatever….

    Cheers-

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Have that book and its a very good read indeed, how our so called generals didn't have a clue as to what to do our troops bogged down trying to retreat from that long trek down thru N.K. in summer clothes at 40 below, fighting a foe that they called those little laundry men until Ridgeway stated that you might call them" those little laundry boys" but let me tell you they are tough little son-a-bitches,and so they were..
    , @daniel le mouche
    The only book I've read on the Korean War is IF Stone's firsthand account, The Hidden History of the Korean War. It is absolutely staggering. Why was it fought? No reason.
    It was a military excercise for MacArthur, just kind of for the hell of it.
  20. Wahoo says:

    The Norks have only a handful of nukes but seem more inclined to use them then say, Isarael, France, etc. That make them a major threat. The Norks are also trying to sell nuclear technology on the international market.

    Read More
  21. “If there were ever a Just Cause for the Yanks to invade and bring democracy somewhere,”

    There never was and never will be. Democracy is not some magic panacea that will cure everyone everywhere. If you’ve paid attention over the last 3 decades you would know this. And the fact that you somehow justified draining the life out of your own country to accomplish these laughable military and ideological goals is really sad.

    Congratulations to all the arm chair generals here. I heard pretty much every talking point on this topic in this thread. As if any of you know anything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @basedKRN

    “If there were ever a Just Cause for the Yanks to invade and bring democracy somewhere,”

    There never was and never will be. Democracy is not some magic panacea that will cure everyone everywhere. If you’ve paid attention over the last 3 decades you would know this. And the fact that you somehow justified draining the life out of your own country to accomplish these laughable military and ideological goals is really sad.

    Congratulations to all the arm chair generals here. I heard pretty much every talking point on this topic in this thread. As if any of you know anything.
     
    Thank you, sir. I'm glad there are people who see this. Even if Yanks have noble intent, it seems along the way they have caused way too much destruction and brought about the resentment of the world. Even so, it seems a lot of (((neoconservatives))) have been the ones responsible for bringing "democracy" to the world, and it hasn't been all roses and chocolates for those involved.
  22. Avery says:
    @dearieme
    "Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans". You could say that of the American "patriots" of 1776 who were revved up to kill fellow Britons.

    {You could say that of the American “patriots” of 1776 who were revved up to kill fellow Britons.}

    You could also say that about the 4 year long US Civil War.
    Both sides considered themselves very patriotic Americans, yet were revved up to kill each other to a total of about 785,000-1,000,000 KIA. Considering US population was about 20-25 million around then, that was huge number of dead.

    Read More
    • Replies: @becky
    The eternal question after war: "patriots", or "morons"?
  23. nsa says:
    @Willem Hendrik
    If there were ever a Just Cause for the Yanks to invade and bring democracy somewhere, it would be North Korea.
    The horrors that generations of North Koreans in concentration camps are enduring, would even make the holo-jews cringe.


    Then again, is Israel ready to take a second row seat on the holocaust narrative and let the North Koreans take the gold medal of international victimhood?
    And what do you do with millions of people coping with culture shock, paranoia, etc.?
    And, last but not least, who would make our clothing for 5 cents a piece?


    All in all. I do not think the Israeli's would let the USA attack North Korea.

    Zero chance of any attack on Korea beyond a prearranged choreographed pinprick. The explanation is simple: nothing in it for the Jooies and Izzies who worked overtime to install a US government of the jooies, by the jooies, for the jooies. Why would they waste their satrap’s assets when they could be used on Iran?

    Read More
  24. Z-man says:

    Just because the Norks have nuclear weapons, with deliverable rockets, we should attack. And it won’t be that difficult. Saturation bombing of the artillery sites threatening Seoul, one or two days of that. Moab on a few of their nuclear/missile sites and a few cruise missiles lobbed at some command and control and that should be about it. Have the Koreans and Chinese clean up the mess.
    …then the grand bargain w/China. Get US forces out of Korea, demilitarized zone in the north of unified Korea, which remains allied w/US, more or less, and that’s that!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    You have a knack for science fiction writing. Contact Castalia House, you have a future.

    If it was that easy of a situation, there would never have been a divided Korea in the first place.
    , @The Scalpel
    What could possibly go wrong with that plan?
  25. Agent76 says:

    October 18, 1994 Remarks on the Nuclear Agreement With North Korea William J. Clinton

    Good afternoon. I am pleased that the United States and North Korea yesterday reached agreement on the text of a framework document on North Korea’s nuclear program.

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=49319

    Read More
  26. bluedog says:
    @Anonymous
    If the North Koreans would do those things - then they need to be bombed into the stone age until every single Nork is eradicated from this earth.

    The future of the world depends upon the complete elimination of North Korea.

    Hmm that’s just like saying that the U.S. should be bombed back to the stone age for what it did to the countries in Asia, the Mid-East the death squads in South America and our on going wars,come to think about it that just might be a very good idea destroy one country to save the world…

    Read More
  27. reiner Tor says: • Website
    @bob sykes
    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn't in Korea I and Vietnam. And China's strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America's main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

    The new fat guy has seriously upset the Chinese.

    Read More
  28. bluedog says:
    @Timur The Lame
    I picked up a batch of old Rollingstone magazines from my local library for pennies to use as bathroom/breakfast reading. One issue had Matt Taibbi following Trump on the campaign trail while still battling for the Republican party nomination. In this leg of his tour he talked about how big insurance conglomerates were setting the prices to their liking and how he as president would bust them up etc.. Then came the commentary from Duck Dynasty types on how they are sick and tired of paying high premiums and so on. It gave me a minor epiphany, namely that this guy is, was and always will be full of shit in other words nothing but a super salesman.

    While I was happy that he blew away the syphilitic structure of the mainstream parties and the press I now realize that the volatile and insane world now has a monkey with a machine gun in a major position of power. This can't end well.

    The Great Pumpkin cut his jib by beating up other businessmen in the vicious world of East coast real estate. In this world he had the MacArthur motto for there being 'no substitute for victory'. If he transmogrifies his business instincts onto the world stage, stock up on rice and beans (and iodine tablets).

    The simple scenario germane to this article is if Trump deploys a carrier fleet even closer to the proximity of the Norks. Who thinks fat boy Jong-Un is sane? Ivanka? Sending even just conventional missiles across the bow is well within his mental construct. With their faulty accuracy they could accidentally hit the target. A carrier sunk. What options does Trump have now? None really. It's show time and by probable extension, "overture, curtains, lights, this is it night of nights..."

    To those interested in the Korean War, I highly recommend David Halberstam's posthumous book, The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War. It is not a standard military chronicle instead a spellbinding journalistic read. Major theme, MacArthur's super ego, pomposity and geo-political ignorance resulting in catastrophe. American troops experienced the thrill of Stalingrad. In an eerie way, Trump now has a chance of becoming American Caesar 2.0 and in the very same playground. History repeats, rhymes whatever....

    Cheers-

    Have that book and its a very good read indeed, how our so called generals didn’t have a clue as to what to do our troops bogged down trying to retreat from that long trek down thru N.K. in summer clothes at 40 below, fighting a foe that they called those little laundry men until Ridgeway stated that you might call them” those little laundry boys” but let me tell you they are tough little son-a-bitches,and so they were..

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price

    ...you might call them” those little laundry boys” but let me tell you they are tough little son-a-bitches,and so they were..

     

    The Viet Cong taught US forces the same lesson.
  29. @bob sykes
    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn't in Korea I and Vietnam. And China's strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America's main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

    Sir, you are the only one talking sense here.

    +100

    Read More
  30. @ bluedog,

    Indeed. It was a sorrowful read with the exception of the heroics of the First Marines at Chosin Reservoir. Wiki called that action a victory as if rearguard actions or successful retreats could ever be put in a victory column.

    The big point now is what do the Chinese think. They were the reason that there even was a Korean War for those who prefer headlines over history or happen to be in elective office in the US government (or Pentagon).

    The stupidity, cultural ignorance and geopolitical autism of the people that actually have their fingers on the trigger on our side in today’s world is mind blowing.

    ” Hit the dirt, join the crowd, lookee mamma, a mushroom cloud” from MAD magazine, in the sixties, a kids rag that makes some people wonder why the non funny, non witty Onion even exists.

    Today that cloud thing suddenly becomes real possibility. Did I say MAD?

    Cheers-

    Read More
  31. Art says:

    Who do we have to fear the most – Kim or Trump?

    Starting a war with N Korea is crazy. Are we going to start a war that would kill millions in order to stop a war that does not exist? There has been little blood spilled between the Koreas in the last 60 years – let’s try for another 60 years.

    How is Trump protecting us, if we are killing and dying in a far-off land? The truth is that our homeland is a very long way from being attacked by N Korea – PERIOD.

    It is time to deescalate – it is time to trade with the bastard – it is time to open up N Korea. Send in the food. Help the people. Be better than the dictator. Give his people what he cannot deliver. Give them the power to demand freedom. It is hard to see – but when dictator governments trade with others, they evolve to freedom.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. The Trump Whisperer – Ivanka – needs to get in daddy’s ear and say “cool it Pops.”

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Never happen for if the two Koreas ever got back together the first thing they would do is boot our backside clear back to Japan, for we need them divided for the sake of the empire..
    , @Sherman
    Hey Genius

    "Send in the food".

    Maybe you should move to Pyongyang and sell the North Koreans your favorite food - PORK and beans.

    Peace
    Sherm
  32. anon says: • Disclaimer

    It’s really China’s problem.

    And the only thing that has kept Japan and South Korea non nuclear is the US. A real threat would be for the US to simply to go home. When Trump was tweeting that exactly — it was seen as quite threatening.

    A nuclear North Korea which is barely in the nuclear club and doesn’t have the economy to militarize is simply an annoyance to China. Japan and South Korea could be real threats quite quickly. And there is no love lost between any of them.

    An irony is that the US has effectively disarmed Europe via NATO, and if the US told Germany to take care of themselves, Russia wouldn’t feel threatened, they would be threatened.

    The truth is that the US hasn’t won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.

    North Korea’s only threat is nuclear, which is hollow, since they are assured of massive retaliation in kind. I suppose China has been OK with the situation, since it annoys us to no end and hasn’t cost them much. So far.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Avery
    {The truth is that the US hasn’t won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.}

    This an enduring myth that was created to salve the psych wound of being beaten by 'inferior' yellow-man.

    Other than using atomic bombs, there were no constraints on US military. US military was given a free hand to bomb and destroy anything and everything, including civilian targets* in both wars.

    As to nukes.

    China had no nukes during Korean war, but Soviet Union did.

    First SU nuke test: Aug 1949.
    First US thermonuke test: Nov 1952
    First SU thermonuke test: Aug 1953.

    POTUS Truman fired delusional Gen McArthur because he knew SU would most certainly use tac nukes in Korea if US did.
    If you recall, Truman had no compunction using nukes on civilian targets, so he must have had good reason to restrain the crazy generals.

    Same with Viet Nam: yes US military wanted to nuke Hanoi in desperation, but cooler civilian heads prevailed. Again, there was near-certainty that SU would respond in kind in Viet Nam.
    ----
    * targeted deliberately: war crimes.

    , @RadicalCenter
    Excellent analysis. I'll just opine that Japan and Korea would not credibly pose any serious threat to the survival, prosperity, and sovereignty of China even if Japan and Korea both had nukes.

    China has a much larger population and economy to bring to bear in a military conflict, and the gap in both economic resources is only getting bigger. China's population advantage over Japan and Korea is not getting smaller, either, as the latter two decline in population.

    Imagine a Chinese naval and aerial blockade of Japan and Korea. Wouldn't take long for them to submit to China's demands or be starved out.
    , @Anonymous
    Better to have Japan and S. Korea armed with nukes than not.

    They are both responsible actors, and this puts the all decisions and all the ramifications in their hands, where it belongs.

    There are no simple answers, and the people most affected are in Asia, so they need to work this out for themselves. This would have the effect of taking the US off Korea's hate/hit list, since they are no longer the central player in N. Korea's eyes.

    Trump should wind down these treaties and the US role in Asia -- there is time to do this now in an orderly, responsible way... giving the Koreans and Japanese ample notice. The idea that the US can be the big dog in Asia forever is madness. With the sheer size and population of that region and it's fast growing economic power, it should be pretty obvious to the sane that the USA simply can't go on as in the past.

    My fear is a neocon Hail Mary war that seeks to strike at China/N.Korea while The US is still semi-capable. They seem that power hungry, and they see the US power as their own, so they may try anything. If it fails, they bugger off to Israel and wash their hands of the whole thing.
  33. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @The Alarmist

    "Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America’s list of villains?"
     
    Existed without showing the fealty expected of lesser states.

    "It took the US six months to assemble a land force in Saudi Arabia just to attack feeble Iraq."
     
    Well, to be fair, Iraq's army was somewhat feared at the time ... even in the second go-around, we expected it to be a bit of a slog, but the wankers wouldn't even put up much of a fight even for their homeland ... at least, not until we declared victory.

    "Memory of the bloody, indecisive first Koran War ...."
     
    Freudian slip ???

    "North Korea is a horrid, brutal regime."
     
    As Henry David Thoreau once wrote, "How can you know that which you are merely told?"

    "US war planners believe that an attempt to assassinate or isolate North Korean leader Kim Jung-un – known in the military as ‘decapitation’- would cause the North Korean armed forces to scatter and give up."
     
    To your point, see Iraq and Libya to see how that works out lately. BTW, isn't that a war crime?

    “but the wankers wouldn’t even put up much of a fight even for their homeland”

    You have heard of the saying, live to fight another day, right? The smart know that.

    Over 4000 dead and 30000 maimed crusader scum is ample proof of that. No?

    Sure, the number of Muslims who died is far higher, but if they truly believed they don’t have much to fear anyway.

    Can’t say the same for those 4000 scum. Yes!!

    Read More
  34. Sean says:

    North Korea has got nothing anyone wants so they won’t be attacked. It is all a lot of bluffing, except if the Chinese (aghast at Trump’s avowed view that China is raping the US economy) try to placate him by promising to give the North Koreans the cold shoulder.

    History shows that the leadership of states in danger of losing their independent status will choose uncertain and perilous courses of action . The best thing is this will fizzle out. If China tries to pressure Kim, he would seriously consider starting a conventional war. He couldn’t possibly win, but that is the point: China cannot accept a collapse of North Korea into the US client south. Nuclear weapons will not be used in any event.

    Read More
  35. joe webb says:

    no war could be initiated without China’s permission. Per TV, 90% of N. Korea’s oil comes from China. Also foodstuffs very important from China.

    N. Korea could be starved and out of gas quickly.

    JYT says the “nuke” warheads are small…maybe two Hiroshimas. Of course, that is enough to devastate many areas within their range.

    China must act.

    Joe Webb

    Read More
  36. Corvinus says:
    @Z-man
    Just because the Norks have nuclear weapons, with deliverable rockets, we should attack. And it won't be that difficult. Saturation bombing of the artillery sites threatening Seoul, one or two days of that. Moab on a few of their nuclear/missile sites and a few cruise missiles lobbed at some command and control and that should be about it. Have the Koreans and Chinese clean up the mess.
    ...then the grand bargain w/China. Get US forces out of Korea, demilitarized zone in the north of unified Korea, which remains allied w/US, more or less, and that's that!

    You have a knack for science fiction writing. Contact Castalia House, you have a future.

    If it was that easy of a situation, there would never have been a divided Korea in the first place.

    Read More
    • Agree: reiner Tor, ic1000
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    I never thought I'd agree with Corvinus, but that day came.
    , @Z-man
    This is 2017 not 1950 and we are living in science fiction. With China's acquiescence we can do all that. They won't mind if a few thousand South Koreans die and a billion dollars in collateral damage is incurred. The South Koreans will then move into attack mode with a vengeance and with the help of the US will make short work of Nork. Then the Chinks will collect their American IOU's with a demilitarized zone in the north and America out of Korea, which is what I want. Let them fend for themselves after that!
  37. joe webb says:

    Oh, by the way, Oriental Despotism again, something that Karolin says does not exist, and has banned me from his column. Joe Webb

    Read More
  38. Avery says:
    @bob sykes
    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn't in Korea I and Vietnam. And China's strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America's main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

    {We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. }

    Almost true.

    Imperial Japan was no Nazi Germany.
    Although Japanese were tenacious fighters and they had first-rate military hardware*, U.S. and U.S. Navy were a rung above the Imperial Japanese military. Japan simply did not have the resources or the industrial might of U.S.

    By the time Allies (really the U.S.) landed in Europe in 1944, Wehrmacht was a spent force: 80% of its best, toughest units were destroyed on the Eastern Front. Even then, at the Battle of the Bulge U.S. troops ran from the advancing Germans (mostly**). GIs were saved by the powerful USAF when the skies cleared up.

    So we don’t really have a good example of peer-to-peer land warfare for US military (other than the US Civil War).

    —-
    * Zero was considered superior to US equipment in the beginning.
    ** Heroic defense of Bastogne.

    Read More
  39. Avery says:
    @anon
    It's really China's problem.

    And the only thing that has kept Japan and South Korea non nuclear is the US. A real threat would be for the US to simply to go home. When Trump was tweeting that exactly -- it was seen as quite threatening.

    A nuclear North Korea which is barely in the nuclear club and doesn't have the economy to militarize is simply an annoyance to China. Japan and South Korea could be real threats quite quickly. And there is no love lost between any of them.

    An irony is that the US has effectively disarmed Europe via NATO, and if the US told Germany to take care of themselves, Russia wouldn't feel threatened, they would be threatened.

    The truth is that the US hasn't won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.

    North Korea's only threat is nuclear, which is hollow, since they are assured of massive retaliation in kind. I suppose China has been OK with the situation, since it annoys us to no end and hasn't cost them much. So far.

    {The truth is that the US hasn’t won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.}

    This an enduring myth that was created to salve the psych wound of being beaten by ‘inferior’ yellow-man.

    Other than using atomic bombs, there were no constraints on US military. US military was given a free hand to bomb and destroy anything and everything, including civilian targets* in both wars.

    As to nukes.

    China had no nukes during Korean war, but Soviet Union did.

    First SU nuke test: Aug 1949.
    First US thermonuke test: Nov 1952
    First SU thermonuke test: Aug 1953.

    POTUS Truman fired delusional Gen McArthur because he knew SU would most certainly use tac nukes in Korea if US did.
    If you recall, Truman had no compunction using nukes on civilian targets, so he must have had good reason to restrain the crazy generals.

    Same with Viet Nam: yes US military wanted to nuke Hanoi in desperation, but cooler civilian heads prevailed. Again, there was near-certainty that SU would respond in kind in Viet Nam.
    —-
    * targeted deliberately: war crimes.

    Read More
    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    The US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in China, nukes or not nukes.
    , @Anon
    It's really a Narrative Problem.

    Craven, cowardly, and dog-like South Koreans and Korean-Americans never faced up to the fact that it was US that divided Korea and gave half to Stalin -- thus creating North Korea -- and also committed mass genocide with insane air bombing. The result was the north losing 1/4 of its population.

    Unless SK's and KA's are willing to change and own the Narrative, they will be dogs and whores of the US.
  40. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Z-man
    Just because the Norks have nuclear weapons, with deliverable rockets, we should attack. And it won't be that difficult. Saturation bombing of the artillery sites threatening Seoul, one or two days of that. Moab on a few of their nuclear/missile sites and a few cruise missiles lobbed at some command and control and that should be about it. Have the Koreans and Chinese clean up the mess.
    ...then the grand bargain w/China. Get US forces out of Korea, demilitarized zone in the north of unified Korea, which remains allied w/US, more or less, and that's that!

    What could possibly go wrong with that plan?

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  41. edNels says:
    @unit472
    This article is pure BS. Let's begin with your claims on atomic warfare. North Korea's ability to attack with atomic weapons is not even at the same level the US possessed in 1945. We had achieved enough air supremacy to believe we could deliver the ( two) experimental atomic devices we had built and did not have to fear any retaliation in kind.

    Atomic bombs maximize their blast and heat effect from an airburst such that the initial fireball does not reach the ground. Only those directly beneath the atomic reaction receive high dosages of radiation in this circumstance. Radioactive fallout from nuclear testing in the 50's and 60's was the result of open air testing of enhanced yield fission bombs and the new 'hydrogen' bombs so powerful there was no way to test them without vast amounts of dust, ash and water vapor being drawn up in the detonation, irradiated and then drifting downwind. This problem resulted in the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty prohibiting open air testing. The idea that North Korea with a handful ( if that) of primitive low yield atomic bombs could blanket the Korean peninsula ( and beyond) with radioactive fallout or 'nuclear winter' is ignorant. OTOH if we give them time they might be able to develop megaton level nuclear weapons and ICBMs to deliver them. It took the US 9 years from initial atomic capability to build a deliverable ( by a huge B-36 bomber) 5 megaton atomic bomb. North Korea doesn't have to invent the technology just copy it so their timeline could be shorter. Who wants to find out?

    I've gone on long enough but your conventional war scenario seems equally faulty. It is redolent of the claims made for Saddam Hussein's 'battle hardened' million man army before Desert Storm except that Iraq's military equipment was less obsolete than what North Korea possesses today.

    You make some good points and in particular, remembering the ”hype” of Saddam’s ominous force, IE: that got wasted in the ”turkey shoot”/ route valley of death trying to evacuate Kuwait. The Republican Guards never seemed to make much of a dent either.
    Highly over rated, seems like.

    But another reason to wonder about veracity of much of the speculations about so many of the fear productions that we are continuously subjected to might be: ( albeit… naively here,) why didn’t a true coalition of Willing states “Nip it in the Bud” before now?

    Conversely, why should anybody feel comfortable the Boogie man countries often maligned: NK, Iran, especially! or some other rogue state” couldn’t obtain modern Weapons and delivery capabilities/ including contriving covert placement… on the sly!

    Why did the world let NK get this far when it’s been on the radar for 60yrs? Is this the definition of benign Neglect or other tactics, or Maya?

    Well they could blame the Democrats for that, but wouldn’t be much of a dodge, as everything at that level must be more than bipartisan, or national security limited, but in the purview of the world at large.

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  42. @unit472
    This article is pure BS. Let's begin with your claims on atomic warfare. North Korea's ability to attack with atomic weapons is not even at the same level the US possessed in 1945. We had achieved enough air supremacy to believe we could deliver the ( two) experimental atomic devices we had built and did not have to fear any retaliation in kind.

    Atomic bombs maximize their blast and heat effect from an airburst such that the initial fireball does not reach the ground. Only those directly beneath the atomic reaction receive high dosages of radiation in this circumstance. Radioactive fallout from nuclear testing in the 50's and 60's was the result of open air testing of enhanced yield fission bombs and the new 'hydrogen' bombs so powerful there was no way to test them without vast amounts of dust, ash and water vapor being drawn up in the detonation, irradiated and then drifting downwind. This problem resulted in the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty prohibiting open air testing. The idea that North Korea with a handful ( if that) of primitive low yield atomic bombs could blanket the Korean peninsula ( and beyond) with radioactive fallout or 'nuclear winter' is ignorant. OTOH if we give them time they might be able to develop megaton level nuclear weapons and ICBMs to deliver them. It took the US 9 years from initial atomic capability to build a deliverable ( by a huge B-36 bomber) 5 megaton atomic bomb. North Korea doesn't have to invent the technology just copy it so their timeline could be shorter. Who wants to find out?

    I've gone on long enough but your conventional war scenario seems equally faulty. It is redolent of the claims made for Saddam Hussein's 'battle hardened' million man army before Desert Storm except that Iraq's military equipment was less obsolete than what North Korea possesses today.

    unit472: They don’t need nuclear missiles. It would just take an artillery strike on any of South Korea’s 25 nuclear reactors to do turn South Korea into an uninhabitable wasteland… and trigger WW3

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    • Replies: @unit472
    " It would just take an artillery strike on any of South Korea’s 25 nuclear reactors to do turn South Korea into an uninhabitable wasteland..."

    Unless North Korea has mobile artillery of battleship or WW1 railroad gun size able to reach and fire on South Korea's nuclear power plants I wouldn't worry about it. Reactor containment structures are about the sturdiest things mankind makes. You aren't going to penetrate them with battlefield artillery though if the NORKS are close enough to bombard them with that the real risk would be that they would overrun them and then they could just do an intentional Fukushima on the reactors or worse, drain the spent fuel pools and let those catch fire.

    I give you as an example of what reinforced concrete can resist the anti aircraft towers of Berlin. In 1945 these colossal structures were opened to the German civilian population seeking shelter during the Battle of Berlin. Tens of thousands of German civilians poured into them. Soviet guns fired point blank at them but couldn't penetrate the structures. They gave up and by passed them knowing that sooner or later the people would have to come out. Now if the Red Army had had some mobile 16" naval guns there probably would have been a more tragic ending but those didn't and do not exist on land and you can bet that the biggest Nork artillery pieces will be priority targets should war break out

  43. Yeah, Kim is a nutcase. But he also likes to pretend he is living out a rap video with Hennessy and Hookers. Actually starting a war would cut his ‘H&H” time to nothing pretty quick. I think he is probably smarter than that.

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  44. joe webb says:

    ABCs of nukes. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/04/world/asia/north-korea-missile-program-sabotage.html?_r=0

    Easter. a few years ago the Asian Indian writer, Arandoti Roy, related a story about a scientist she knew, Indian I guess, who pooh-poohed worries about nuclear war…Pakistan/India by stating that it did not matter much, cuz reincarnation guaranteed that things would all come around again. Think the movie Dr. Strangelove, and its closing song…We’ll meet again, don’t know where, don’t know when….

    So, add to Oriental Despotism, Magical Thinking …the Orient..Its Chinatown (from the movie). Feng Shue even in real estate sales here in Silicon Valley for the chinks.

    These people deserve one another but we Whites don’t deserve it. Or do we with our Race Equality delusions?

    So. “In September, he [north Korean maximum leader] celebrated the most successful test yet of a North Korean nuclear weapon — one that exploded with more than twice the destructive force of the Hiroshima bomb.”

    For those of you who don’t know a kiloton from a megaton, Hiroshima/Nagasake received about 18 kilotons each. A kiloton is the equivalent of one thousand tons of conventional nigh explosive, TNT. Wiki “either in kilotons (kt—thousands of tons of TNT), in megatons (Mt—millions of tons of TNT.”

    18 kiltons over Hiroshima, or 35-40 kilotons over Seoul, or San Francisco..no more chatter about race equality. Death the great Equalizer.

    This article is worth reading. It is very Educational. China must act.

    Meanwhile we are working on star wars type jambing electronics to kill missiles before they launch. Also, if you read up on all this stuff, like at wiki, you learn that since uranium is very heavy, it is difficult to get a large and heavy payload on a missile simply cuz of the weight involved. Still, a handful of kilotons over any city could, as we used to say, ruin your day.

    All of this stuff puts the Middle East in perspective. N. Korea must, as it currently exits, die. Either a smother from China…cutting off oil and food…TV says 90 % of its oil is from China, or Else.

    Joe Webb

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    • Replies: @daniel le mouche
    'Oriental Despotism, Magical Thinking …the Orient..Its Chinatown (from the movie). Feng Shue even in real estate sales here in Silicon Valley for the chinks.
    These people deserve one another but we Whites don’t deserve it. Or do we with our Race Equality delusions?'

    You should get out and see the world a bit, and watch less movies. And get off your hate horse.
  45. bluedog says:
    @Art
    Who do we have to fear the most - Kim or Trump?

    Starting a war with N Korea is crazy. Are we going to start a war that would kill millions in order to stop a war that does not exist? There has been little blood spilled between the Koreas in the last 60 years – let’s try for another 60 years.

    How is Trump protecting us, if we are killing and dying in a far-off land? The truth is that our homeland is a very long way from being attacked by N Korea – PERIOD.

    It is time to deescalate – it is time to trade with the bastard - it is time to open up N Korea. Send in the food. Help the people. Be better than the dictator. Give his people what he cannot deliver. Give them the power to demand freedom. It is hard to see – but when dictator governments trade with others, they evolve to freedom.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. The Trump Whisperer – Ivanka – needs to get in daddy’s ear and say “cool it Pops.”

    Never happen for if the two Koreas ever got back together the first thing they would do is boot our backside clear back to Japan, for we need them divided for the sake of the empire..

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  46. reiner Tor says: • Website
    @Avery
    {The truth is that the US hasn’t won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.}

    This an enduring myth that was created to salve the psych wound of being beaten by 'inferior' yellow-man.

    Other than using atomic bombs, there were no constraints on US military. US military was given a free hand to bomb and destroy anything and everything, including civilian targets* in both wars.

    As to nukes.

    China had no nukes during Korean war, but Soviet Union did.

    First SU nuke test: Aug 1949.
    First US thermonuke test: Nov 1952
    First SU thermonuke test: Aug 1953.

    POTUS Truman fired delusional Gen McArthur because he knew SU would most certainly use tac nukes in Korea if US did.
    If you recall, Truman had no compunction using nukes on civilian targets, so he must have had good reason to restrain the crazy generals.

    Same with Viet Nam: yes US military wanted to nuke Hanoi in desperation, but cooler civilian heads prevailed. Again, there was near-certainty that SU would respond in kind in Viet Nam.
    ----
    * targeted deliberately: war crimes.

    The US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in China, nukes or not nukes.

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    • Replies: @Avery
    {The US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in China, nukes or not nukes.}

    US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in SU either: wonder why.
    US forces are not allowed to bomb targets which can bomb US targets back.

    US civilian leadership prefers to enjoy a safe, comfortable life after their 'public service' (sic).

  47. reiner Tor says: • Website
    @Corvinus
    You have a knack for science fiction writing. Contact Castalia House, you have a future.

    If it was that easy of a situation, there would never have been a divided Korea in the first place.

    I never thought I’d agree with Corvinus, but that day came.

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  48. Anon says: • Disclaimer

    Yea, Boy!

    We are past the time when defending Japan and SK makes sense. Let them stand on their own.

    SK and Japan would develop nukes and mid-range missiles in a very short time.

    Gentleman, I pretty sure that Mutually Assured Destruction is a strategy whose effectiveness has been well demonstrated.

    Finally, as to NK delivering a nuke somewhere, it is my opinion that the most reliable way to accurately deliver a nuclear weapon is to use a Ford F-350. (I only say that because my experience with Ford trucks has been pretty good.)

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  49. Dale says:
    @bob sykes
    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn't in Korea I and Vietnam. And China's strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America's main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

    I’m glad Trump is keeping Xi in the loop, and hopefully having constructive discussions, because this is NOT the business of the USA.

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  50. Avery says:
    @reiner Tor
    The US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in China, nukes or not nukes.

    {The US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in China, nukes or not nukes.}

    US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in SU either: wonder why.
    US forces are not allowed to bomb targets which can bomb US targets back.

    US civilian leadership prefers to enjoy a safe, comfortable life after their ‘public service’ (sic).

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    • Replies: @reiner Tor
    China at the time was not in a position to bomb back. But yeah, Truman didn't want to risk a war with the USSR.

    By the way, Truman's great error was not helping Chiang Kai-shek earlier. Chiang's government got very little help from the Americans, at the height of the civil war in 1947 Truman even idiotically introduced an arms embargo against China. (They didn't even deliver arms already paid for by the Chinese government...) The total aid Chiang's government got from the Americans throughout the civil war was perhaps worth a few hundred million dollars, probably significantly less than what Mao got from the USSR. After that, the Americans spent tens of billions of dollars on the Korean War, when with that kind of money Chiang would easily have won and there would have been no Korean War.
  51. Sherman says:
    @Art
    Who do we have to fear the most - Kim or Trump?

    Starting a war with N Korea is crazy. Are we going to start a war that would kill millions in order to stop a war that does not exist? There has been little blood spilled between the Koreas in the last 60 years – let’s try for another 60 years.

    How is Trump protecting us, if we are killing and dying in a far-off land? The truth is that our homeland is a very long way from being attacked by N Korea – PERIOD.

    It is time to deescalate – it is time to trade with the bastard - it is time to open up N Korea. Send in the food. Help the people. Be better than the dictator. Give his people what he cannot deliver. Give them the power to demand freedom. It is hard to see – but when dictator governments trade with others, they evolve to freedom.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. The Trump Whisperer – Ivanka – needs to get in daddy’s ear and say “cool it Pops.”

    Hey Genius

    “Send in the food”.

    Maybe you should move to Pyongyang and sell the North Koreans your favorite food – PORK and beans.

    Peace
    Sherm

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    • Replies: @Art

    “Send in the food”.

    Maybe you should move to Pyongyang and sell the North Koreans your favorite food – PORK and beans.
     
    Hi Sherm,

    In honor of Easter, Moshe and I are sending a food gift to the hungry people of N Korea.

    Thank you for prompting us. Loving your neighbor and loving your enemy are good Christian things to do.

    Peace --- Art

    p.s. Being philosophical Christians, is wise - love works – it points us on a path to peace.

    p.s. The ancient Jew zero-sum world precludes and impedes modern love – how sad for them
  52. unit472 says:
    @Prometheus
    unit472: They don't need nuclear missiles. It would just take an artillery strike on any of South Korea's 25 nuclear reactors to do turn South Korea into an uninhabitable wasteland... and trigger WW3

    ” It would just take an artillery strike on any of South Korea’s 25 nuclear reactors to do turn South Korea into an uninhabitable wasteland…”

    Unless North Korea has mobile artillery of battleship or WW1 railroad gun size able to reach and fire on South Korea’s nuclear power plants I wouldn’t worry about it. Reactor containment structures are about the sturdiest things mankind makes. You aren’t going to penetrate them with battlefield artillery though if the NORKS are close enough to bombard them with that the real risk would be that they would overrun them and then they could just do an intentional Fukushima on the reactors or worse, drain the spent fuel pools and let those catch fire.

    I give you as an example of what reinforced concrete can resist the anti aircraft towers of Berlin. In 1945 these colossal structures were opened to the German civilian population seeking shelter during the Battle of Berlin. Tens of thousands of German civilians poured into them. Soviet guns fired point blank at them but couldn’t penetrate the structures. They gave up and by passed them knowing that sooner or later the people would have to come out. Now if the Red Army had had some mobile 16″ naval guns there probably would have been a more tragic ending but those didn’t and do not exist on land and you can bet that the biggest Nork artillery pieces will be priority targets should war break out

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price

    Reactor containment structures are about the sturdiest things mankind makes. You aren’t going to penetrate them with battlefield artillery
     
    While this may or may not be true for reactor containment structures, it's certainly not true for unprotected spent fuel storage areas, where the real menace associated with nuclear power plants exist in great abundance.
  53. @Vendetta
    Why not allow that?

    Why not allow that?

    Because a re-militarized Japan and a nuclear South Korea would cause China in particular to react, probably in a very bad way.

    China would likely challenge Japan before Japan could complete its re-militarization.

    China would also likely pre-emptively strike South Korea to prevent them from fielding a nuclear weapon.

    A re-militarized Japan would cause all Far-East Asian nations to react, probably with their own military buildup and more war fever tension overall in Asia.

    The US will likely get drawn into any conflict anyway, because US mutual interests with Japan and SK (trade, defense, respect and trust) would be at stake.

    The US considers Japan and South Korea to be allies regardless of any treaty, and will probably defend both nations if their survival is at stake.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    Your last sentence may be true, but I hope not. Let Japan and Korea fend for themselves; they are not friends on whom we could count in dire times, and they are not our people.
    , @Z-man
    Hey Joe Franklin, I met the real Joe Franklin several times.
  54. Z-man says:
    @Corvinus
    You have a knack for science fiction writing. Contact Castalia House, you have a future.

    If it was that easy of a situation, there would never have been a divided Korea in the first place.

    This is 2017 not 1950 and we are living in science fiction. With China’s acquiescence we can do all that. They won’t mind if a few thousand South Koreans die and a billion dollars in collateral damage is incurred. The South Koreans will then move into attack mode with a vengeance and with the help of the US will make short work of Nork. Then the Chinks will collect their American IOU’s with a demilitarized zone in the north and America out of Korea, which is what I want. Let them fend for themselves after that!

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    • Replies: @Corvinus
    Your entire scenario is science fiction. Again, ink that deal with Castalia House.
    , @denk
    Speak for yourself ,
    Remember MADeline Albright ?
    '500000 Iraq children are worth it' ,
    She didnt tell you ....its blood for oil.

    'Then the Chinks will collect their American IOU’s with a demilitarized zone in the north and America out of Korea, which is what I want'

    You could've gotten what you want just letting China do its stuff way back in 2003, problem solved, nobody gets hurt.

    Too bad thats not what the pro arsonists in Washington want,
    thats not what their benefitors like Lockheed Martin want,
    No wars , no gain !
    So the Cheney/wolferwicz gang made sure China's peace plan failed.
    Just like how they dismiss China's proposal now.

    War is to Washington like blood is to Dracula.
    How is a man gonna make a living if peace is at hand ?

    Everybody fear the threat of war,
    Only the murkkans are afraid of the threaf of peace.
    hehehehe
  55. denk says:

    ‘“If China is not going to solve North Korea, we will.”

    With this porky pie,
    Trump becomes the 45th ‘bald faced liars’ elected by the murkkans.

    And….
    With the bombing of Syria, Yemen …
    Trump joins the ‘prestigious’ ranks of the previous 44 war criminals in WH.

    lots of murkkans , the Trumpsters, are crying foul,
    They are ‘betrayed’ by Trump who now ‘surrender to the deep state’,
    ‘the neocons have finally gotten to Trump’, blah blah blah….

    B.S. !

    Astute obsevers like Vltchek, Engdahl, Draistser ..reminded murkkans about the exercise in futility in the ‘election circus’ long ago.

    Mathematically,
    Ian Fleming’s fundamental law of probability practically gaurantees that the 45th potus would be same as the old boss,
    MICC front man who speaks with forked tongue.

    As the pathetic hack Fareed Zakaria of Times magazine would gush after the Syria bombing,
    With this act, Trump has just become potus

    He didnt know how right he’s,
    hehehehe

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  56. anon says: • Disclaimer

    The USA should just leave the Korean peninsula. Then it is no more America’s problem then Mexico’s.

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  57. Art says:
    @Sherman
    Hey Genius

    "Send in the food".

    Maybe you should move to Pyongyang and sell the North Koreans your favorite food - PORK and beans.

    Peace
    Sherm

    “Send in the food”.

    Maybe you should move to Pyongyang and sell the North Koreans your favorite food – PORK and beans.

    Hi Sherm,

    In honor of Easter, Moshe and I are sending a food gift to the hungry people of N Korea.

    Thank you for prompting us. Loving your neighbor and loving your enemy are good Christian things to do.

    Peace — Art

    p.s. Being philosophical Christians, is wise – love works – it points us on a path to peace.

    p.s. The ancient Jew zero-sum world precludes and impedes modern love – how sad for them

    Read More
  58. reiner Tor says: • Website
    @Avery
    {The US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in China, nukes or not nukes.}

    US forces were not allowed to bomb targets in SU either: wonder why.
    US forces are not allowed to bomb targets which can bomb US targets back.

    US civilian leadership prefers to enjoy a safe, comfortable life after their 'public service' (sic).

    China at the time was not in a position to bomb back. But yeah, Truman didn’t want to risk a war with the USSR.

    By the way, Truman’s great error was not helping Chiang Kai-shek earlier. Chiang’s government got very little help from the Americans, at the height of the civil war in 1947 Truman even idiotically introduced an arms embargo against China. (They didn’t even deliver arms already paid for by the Chinese government…) The total aid Chiang’s government got from the Americans throughout the civil war was perhaps worth a few hundred million dollars, probably significantly less than what Mao got from the USSR. After that, the Americans spent tens of billions of dollars on the Korean War, when with that kind of money Chiang would easily have won and there would have been no Korean War.

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    • Replies: @anon
    What you are not considering here is the vast amount of aid Chiang and his nationalists got from 1931-45. The truth is he was an ineffective leader and just didn't enjoy great support among many ordinary Chinese. There was really nothing at all America could have done to have saved China in 1948. The claim that "Truman lost China" was, and still is, a total myth. This charge was one of the reasons LBJ got sucked into Vietnam. He didn't want to be similarly saddled with the claim "he lost South Vietnam".
  59. Joe Wong says:
    @Vendetta
    Why not allow that?

    That will not sit very well with American global full spectrum dominance and end the day that American can commit war crimes, crimes against peace and crimes against humanity on the phantom WMD allegation as humanitarian intervention.

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  60. @joe webb
    ABCs of nukes. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/04/world/asia/north-korea-missile-program-sabotage.html?_r=0

    Easter. a few years ago the Asian Indian writer, Arandoti Roy, related a story about a scientist she knew, Indian I guess, who pooh-poohed worries about nuclear war...Pakistan/India by stating that it did not matter much, cuz reincarnation guaranteed that things would all come around again. Think the movie Dr. Strangelove, and its closing song...We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when....

    So, add to Oriental Despotism, Magical Thinking ...the Orient..Its Chinatown (from the movie). Feng Shue even in real estate sales here in Silicon Valley for the chinks.

    These people deserve one another but we Whites don't deserve it. Or do we with our Race Equality delusions?

    So. "In September, he [north Korean maximum leader] celebrated the most successful test yet of a North Korean nuclear weapon — one that exploded with more than twice the destructive force of the Hiroshima bomb."

    For those of you who don't know a kiloton from a megaton, Hiroshima/Nagasake received about 18 kilotons each. A kiloton is the equivalent of one thousand tons of conventional nigh explosive, TNT. Wiki "either in kilotons (kt—thousands of tons of TNT), in megatons (Mt—millions of tons of TNT."

    18 kiltons over Hiroshima, or 35-40 kilotons over Seoul, or San Francisco..no more chatter about race equality. Death the great Equalizer.

    This article is worth reading. It is very Educational. China must act.

    Meanwhile we are working on star wars type jambing electronics to kill missiles before they launch. Also, if you read up on all this stuff, like at wiki, you learn that since uranium is very heavy, it is difficult to get a large and heavy payload on a missile simply cuz of the weight involved. Still, a handful of kilotons over any city could, as we used to say, ruin your day.

    All of this stuff puts the Middle East in perspective. N. Korea must, as it currently exits, die. Either a smother from China...cutting off oil and food...TV says 90 % of its oil is from China, or Else.

    Joe Webb

    ‘Oriental Despotism, Magical Thinking …the Orient..Its Chinatown (from the movie). Feng Shue even in real estate sales here in Silicon Valley for the chinks.
    These people deserve one another but we Whites don’t deserve it. Or do we with our Race Equality delusions?’

    You should get out and see the world a bit, and watch less movies. And get off your hate horse.

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    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    That would be "fewer" movies.

    I live in Los Angeles and can attest to the negative cultural effects of large-scale Chinese settlement in our region -- other than the restaurants, of course, let's keep those ;)
  61. @Timur The Lame
    I picked up a batch of old Rollingstone magazines from my local library for pennies to use as bathroom/breakfast reading. One issue had Matt Taibbi following Trump on the campaign trail while still battling for the Republican party nomination. In this leg of his tour he talked about how big insurance conglomerates were setting the prices to their liking and how he as president would bust them up etc.. Then came the commentary from Duck Dynasty types on how they are sick and tired of paying high premiums and so on. It gave me a minor epiphany, namely that this guy is, was and always will be full of shit in other words nothing but a super salesman.

    While I was happy that he blew away the syphilitic structure of the mainstream parties and the press I now realize that the volatile and insane world now has a monkey with a machine gun in a major position of power. This can't end well.

    The Great Pumpkin cut his jib by beating up other businessmen in the vicious world of East coast real estate. In this world he had the MacArthur motto for there being 'no substitute for victory'. If he transmogrifies his business instincts onto the world stage, stock up on rice and beans (and iodine tablets).

    The simple scenario germane to this article is if Trump deploys a carrier fleet even closer to the proximity of the Norks. Who thinks fat boy Jong-Un is sane? Ivanka? Sending even just conventional missiles across the bow is well within his mental construct. With their faulty accuracy they could accidentally hit the target. A carrier sunk. What options does Trump have now? None really. It's show time and by probable extension, "overture, curtains, lights, this is it night of nights..."

    To those interested in the Korean War, I highly recommend David Halberstam's posthumous book, The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War. It is not a standard military chronicle instead a spellbinding journalistic read. Major theme, MacArthur's super ego, pomposity and geo-political ignorance resulting in catastrophe. American troops experienced the thrill of Stalingrad. In an eerie way, Trump now has a chance of becoming American Caesar 2.0 and in the very same playground. History repeats, rhymes whatever....

    Cheers-

    The only book I’ve read on the Korean War is IF Stone’s firsthand account, The Hidden History of the Korean War. It is absolutely staggering. Why was it fought? No reason.
    It was a military excercise for MacArthur, just kind of for the hell of it.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    The Korean War was sort of an interim exercise to keep Americans distracted and on their toes until a fake Cold War could be got-up and running.
  62. @Father O'Hara
    If china won't do something about this dictator,WE WILL!
    Goddam right!!!!!

    ‘If china won’t do something about this dictator,WE WILL!
    Goddam right!!!!!’

    The timeless, eternal American He-Man. Now he’s in a guise with yellow hair styled more bizarrely than anything Kim Jong-il wore.
    Well, it’s been what, three months? Plenty of time to forget all campaign promises. Remember? Get out of all these foreign wars, bring manufacturing back, make America great again?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Well only those who fell for his crap but one only needed to look at his long history to see that he was little but a bullshit artist with a bridge to sell,bridge SOLD...
  63. @Diversity Heretic
    Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America's list of villains? The regime has had nuclear weapons and some ballistic missile capacity for some time. But they seem to me to be mostly oriented towards a garrison state. The Norks seem no nuttier now than any time I remember. If the U.S. simply left this regional actor to be managed by other regional powers (e.g., South Korea, Japan and China) a lot of the incentive on the part of North Korea to make threats and attract attention would diminish significantly.

    ‘Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America’s list of villains?’

    Don’t be silly, we don’t need a reason. Just think as you’re told and march in lock step with what our (and Trump’s) masters decide. Do we need another war? Of course! Gotta sell weapons, gotta keep everyone on war footing, beligerent (from their couches) and full of hate.

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  64. pauln says:

    What would a war in Korea look like?

    As soon as the DMZ was blown up, everybody in North Korea would scream “cars, air conditioning, BBQ!!!!” and the entire population would pour south…..end of war.

    The fact is, it is the purely evil designs of the US government, dovetailing with the purely evil designs of the North Koreans government, that have ultimately prevented Korean Unification, with the eternal threat of war being the go to methodology.

    The day may yet come when a critical mass of Koreans on both sides reject the war\war paradigm and simply unite.

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    • Replies: @Z-man
    I'm no expert on Korea but the reason Korea isn't unified is because of China and a flaw in the Korean people which I can't nail down but is evident in the behavior of both communists and capitalists. I have dealt with a few Koreans here in the good ol' USA and they seem pompous, pretentious etc.
    Once we deal with Fat Boy we should get the hell out of there.
  65. Corvinus says:
    @Z-man
    This is 2017 not 1950 and we are living in science fiction. With China's acquiescence we can do all that. They won't mind if a few thousand South Koreans die and a billion dollars in collateral damage is incurred. The South Koreans will then move into attack mode with a vengeance and with the help of the US will make short work of Nork. Then the Chinks will collect their American IOU's with a demilitarized zone in the north and America out of Korea, which is what I want. Let them fend for themselves after that!

    Your entire scenario is science fiction. Again, ink that deal with Castalia House.

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    • Replies: @Z-man
    We shall see.
    BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie.
  66. Z-man says:
    @Corvinus
    Your entire scenario is science fiction. Again, ink that deal with Castalia House.

    We shall see.
    BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie.

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    • Replies: @Z-man
    Nothing to do w/Korea.
    , @Corvinus
    "I’m no expert on Korea..."

    Exactly, you're no expert. Korea is not unified due to international meddling and internal strife. It has little to do with this alleged "flaw" in the Korean people, who are other than pompous or pretentious. Get a grip on reality.

    "BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie."

    I have a friend of mine who has a cousin who is an executive at Warner Brothers. No, not Jewish, a white guy. Besides, Castalia House is most appropriate for your work. Science fiction. Vox Day is really good at promoting his brand.
  67. Z-man says:
    @pauln
    What would a war in Korea look like?


    As soon as the DMZ was blown up, everybody in North Korea would scream "cars, air conditioning, BBQ!!!!" and the entire population would pour south.....end of war.


    The fact is, it is the purely evil designs of the US government, dovetailing with the purely evil designs of the North Koreans government, that have ultimately prevented Korean Unification, with the eternal threat of war being the go to methodology.


    The day may yet come when a critical mass of Koreans on both sides reject the war\war paradigm and simply unite.

    I’m no expert on Korea but the reason Korea isn’t unified is because of China and a flaw in the Korean people which I can’t nail down but is evident in the behavior of both communists and capitalists. I have dealt with a few Koreans here in the good ol’ USA and they seem pompous, pretentious etc.
    Once we deal with Fat Boy we should get the hell out of there.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    China has relations with NK and SK. Russia also has relations with NK and SK.

    It is the US that still treats NK as the enemy and makes threats by calling it Axis of Evil after illegally invading Iraq.

    China does prop up NK but it is the US that drives NK into a tizzy.
    US also exerts pressure on SK not to improve relations with NK.
    If anything, the US coerces SK to do joint exercises preparing for invasion of the north.

    To this day, the US hasn't admitted that it divided the nation and gave half to Stalin.
    But then, the US hasn't admitted role in Nakba either.
    NK or divided Korea is the product of US foreign policy. And that fact has to be the starting point of discussion.
  68. Z-man says:
    @Z-man
    We shall see.
    BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie.

    Nothing to do w/Korea.

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  69. Corvinus says:
    @Z-man
    We shall see.
    BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie.

    “I’m no expert on Korea…”

    Exactly, you’re no expert. Korea is not unified due to international meddling and internal strife. It has little to do with this alleged “flaw” in the Korean people, who are other than pompous or pretentious. Get a grip on reality.

    “BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie.”

    I have a friend of mine who has a cousin who is an executive at Warner Brothers. No, not Jewish, a white guy. Besides, Castalia House is most appropriate for your work. Science fiction. Vox Day is really good at promoting his brand.

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    • Replies: @Z-man
    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned. Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn't in the Soviet block, couldn't. If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. The South always claims that it will be 'very expensive' for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it's genetic or whatever, a FLAW.
    , @Z-man
    Who's Vox Day? Castalia House?
    Ok, I googled it, thanks, yeah I'm not getting any younger I gotta sell my script before I go to the old age home!! It'll make a great movie, IMHO, LOL!!
    , @basedKRN

    Exactly, you’re no expert. Korea is not unified due to international meddling and internal strife. It has little to do with this alleged “flaw” in the Korean people, who are other than pompous or pretentious. Get a grip on reality.
     
    Thank you! We can be very pompous and pretentious though, hehehe.
  70. becky says:
    @Avery
    {You could say that of the American “patriots” of 1776 who were revved up to kill fellow Britons.}

    You could also say that about the 4 year long US Civil War.
    Both sides considered themselves very patriotic Americans, yet were revved up to kill each other to a total of about 785,000-1,000,000 KIA. Considering US population was about 20-25 million around then, that was huge number of dead.

    The eternal question after war: “patriots”, or “morons”?

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  71. bluedog says:
    @daniel le mouche
    'If china won’t do something about this dictator,WE WILL!
    Goddam right!!!!!'

    The timeless, eternal American He-Man. Now he's in a guise with yellow hair styled more bizarrely than anything Kim Jong-il wore.
    Well, it's been what, three months? Plenty of time to forget all campaign promises. Remember? Get out of all these foreign wars, bring manufacturing back, make America great again?

    Well only those who fell for his crap but one only needed to look at his long history to see that he was little but a bullshit artist with a bridge to sell,bridge SOLD…

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  72. Talha says:

    Memory of the bloody, indecisive first Koran War, 1950-53, which killed close to 3 million people, has faded.

    Sniff…we get blamed for everything…sniff…

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  73. Talha says:
    @Anon
    "My visits to South and North Korea have shown me that soldiers of both nations are amazingly tough, patriotic and ready to fight."

    Funny patriotism where they're most revved up to kill other Koreans.

    A bunch of morons.

    A bunch of morons.

    Note to everybody that masturbates to “High IQ” – if this war happens – it will be a colossal failure of the most intelligent populations on the planet and the destructive capabilities unleashed will be isolated to them.

    Just sayin’.

    Peace.

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  74. Talha says:
    @WorkingClass
    Turns out Trump is just another lying murdering piece of shit. At 72 I have seen a number of these ass holes come and go. But it took Trump to finally convince me that only a crushing and humiliating military defeat will stop Imperial aggression. Unless the dollar goes to zero before that happens. The FED's ability to counterfeit dollars in the trillions is the only source of Imperial power. When the dollar's reign has ended the U.S. will be just another big country in the Americas.

    Hey WC,

    This guy is turning out to be way worse than Obama – and possibly running neck and neck with an imagined Hillary presidency – how the hell did that happen??!! Like Diversity Heretic said, I think the only ones that have kicked this into overdrive is us – we created a problem by issuing another stupid ultimatum/threat.

    only a crushing and humiliating military defeat will stop Imperial aggression

    Well, it worked for the Swedes – they had an empire and then they marched into Russia (destination Moscow) – bingo! No more empire or imperial designs after that one. Their king had to hightail it to the Ottoman Empire for safety – no kidding. Then there was some dude named Napoleon, let me tell you about him…and Russia…

    Peace.

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  75. NK’s nukes are for self defense and deterrent, it is for the regime’s survival. it poses no threat to usa unless we invade it. but I guess that is unacceptable.

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  76. Z-man says:
    @Corvinus
    "I’m no expert on Korea..."

    Exactly, you're no expert. Korea is not unified due to international meddling and internal strife. It has little to do with this alleged "flaw" in the Korean people, who are other than pompous or pretentious. Get a grip on reality.

    "BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie."

    I have a friend of mine who has a cousin who is an executive at Warner Brothers. No, not Jewish, a white guy. Besides, Castalia House is most appropriate for your work. Science fiction. Vox Day is really good at promoting his brand.

    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned. Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn’t in the Soviet block, couldn’t. If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. The South always claims that it will be ‘very expensive’ for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it’s genetic or whatever, a FLAW.

    Read More
    • Replies: @denk
    murkkans are like mushrooms,
    kept in the dark and fed bullshit all day.


    Dont suppose you heard of KIm Dae Jong and the Sunshine policy ?

    Or unitedsnake the great DIVIDER, its the reason why there's N/S Korea, Sudan/South Sudan, Kosovo, Taiwan 'state', just to name a few !
    , @Corvinus
    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned.

    "Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn’t in the Soviet block, couldn’t."

    Apples to oranges comparison. North Korea is China's b----, a nation that serves as a counterweight to South Korea and Japan.

    "If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. "

    No, they could have "really wanted to", considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950. Without his interference, perhaps North and South Korea could have come to an agreement to unify.

    "The South always claims that it will be ‘very expensive’ for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it’s genetic or whatever, a FLAW."

    Germany united only when the East German communist government fell. Then the road to liberation began in earnest.

    "Who’s Vox Day? Castalia House?"

    You know him. He has referenced you many times. Stop lying.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-alt-lites-fatal-flaw.html
  77. Z-man says:
    @Corvinus
    "I’m no expert on Korea..."

    Exactly, you're no expert. Korea is not unified due to international meddling and internal strife. It has little to do with this alleged "flaw" in the Korean people, who are other than pompous or pretentious. Get a grip on reality.

    "BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie."

    I have a friend of mine who has a cousin who is an executive at Warner Brothers. No, not Jewish, a white guy. Besides, Castalia House is most appropriate for your work. Science fiction. Vox Day is really good at promoting his brand.

    Who’s Vox Day? Castalia House?
    Ok, I googled it, thanks, yeah I’m not getting any younger I gotta sell my script before I go to the old age home!! It’ll make a great movie, IMHO, LOL!!

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  78. This article mostly re-thinks KWII as a re-start where KWI left off.

    One wonders why the obvious fault with that isn’t obvious to the author.

    Side stepping for a moment the author’s vision:

    * who knows – maybe public strategic bluster might change the calculus with the North Koreans – this might accidentally lead to greater peace and stability

    * on the other hand – Trump is being disingenuous in the highest order to pitch this in terms of “in return for concessions on trade we are asking China to reign in NK” … Bull..sh—–t … just play that from the other direction and see how it runs, “sure Mr. Trump, we could stop manipulating our currency, but then we’d have to find new markets for our goods, like NK”

    Honestly – on that one alone – all you guys who supported him, you’d better stop

    * back to the first – strategic bluster – if it doesn’t work and we end up warring with NK – well – the war won’t go anything like the author here imagines and he’s leaving out key factors that will play in the final and total conventional defeat of the Kim regime, but I’m not the kind of person to talk about that and educate fools who are better off not knowing, but even if and when we end the regime, there is this idea out there, ancient piece of wisdom, it holds that war, even if won, was always a failure

    My guess is that no matter the margin of victory, 10 years after, from the POV of every VA in the country, that wisdom will be accessible to those who don’t have it now, with 20/20 hindsight.

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  79. KenH says:

    N. Korea won’t go quietly into the good night if it comes to war and anyone in the U.S. high command who’s predicting that or believes that should be removed. Neither will they throw down their arms and become nihilistic and materialistic quasi-Americans if we “take out” dear leader Kim Jung Un. Our big brains in the U.S. military also predicted that the Iraqi insurgency would fizzle out once Saddam was arrested and hanged and we know how that turned out.

    N. Korea is very mountainous which lends itself well to a protracted, fourth generation style of warfare which we we’ve been unable to defeat in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. A land war in N. Korea would quickly become Vietnam in the mountains and N. Korean guerrilla fighters could theoretically last forever if covertly supported and supplied by the Chinese as they were in Korea War I.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    Solid on all points especially if China decides to make this the grave of our expeditionary forces by supplying NK guerrillas with advanced weapons (even worse if Russia decides to weigh in just to give Uncle Sam a black eye for its interference in the Ukraine). If we could barely keep it together against an Iraq that was beat down by a decade of sanctions that wouldn't even let them import chlorine - you best believe this one is going to go down in history as our Waterloo.

    From what I have read about NK - they don't have much and have basically lived at a level just above famine for quite a bit. Sacrifice is a daily routine for this kind of people.

    And maybe the US would win, but I think the victory would have everyone thinking; we never want to win like that again.

    Peace.

  80. attonn says:

    There will be bombing of nuke sites (moronic Trump cornered himself with threats and posturing, so he must do something), but no land invasion. I am sure that Chinese already told Trump they wouldn’t tolerate that – unless, of course. they were promised complete withdrawal of US troops from the Korean peninsula after the reunification. Which I don’t believe the US would even contemplate. Or it would violate the promise, as usual.
    So NK survives – and then goes on a all-out effort to arm itself with hundreds of nuclear warheads, as well as develop reliable delivery vehicles to reach the US West Coast.
    The coming US attack will only stimulate NKorea’s WMD programs, and deepen America’s vulnerability.

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  81. denk says:
    @Z-man
    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned. Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn't in the Soviet block, couldn't. If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. The South always claims that it will be 'very expensive' for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it's genetic or whatever, a FLAW.

    murkkans are like mushrooms,
    kept in the dark and fed bullshit all day.

    Dont suppose you heard of KIm Dae Jong and the Sunshine policy ?

    Or unitedsnake the great DIVIDER, its the reason why there’s N/S Korea, Sudan/South Sudan, Kosovo, Taiwan ‘state’, just to name a few !

    Read More
  82. denk says:
    @Z-man
    This is 2017 not 1950 and we are living in science fiction. With China's acquiescence we can do all that. They won't mind if a few thousand South Koreans die and a billion dollars in collateral damage is incurred. The South Koreans will then move into attack mode with a vengeance and with the help of the US will make short work of Nork. Then the Chinks will collect their American IOU's with a demilitarized zone in the north and America out of Korea, which is what I want. Let them fend for themselves after that!

    Speak for yourself ,
    Remember MADeline Albright ?
    ’500000 Iraq children are worth it’ ,
    She didnt tell you ….its blood for oil.

    ‘Then the Chinks will collect their American IOU’s with a demilitarized zone in the north and America out of Korea, which is what I want’

    You could’ve gotten what you want just letting China do its stuff way back in 2003, problem solved, nobody gets hurt.

    Too bad thats not what the pro arsonists in Washington want,
    thats not what their benefitors like Lockheed Martin want,
    No wars , no gain !
    So the Cheney/wolferwicz gang made sure China’s peace plan failed.
    Just like how they dismiss China’s proposal now.

    War is to Washington like blood is to Dracula.
    How is a man gonna make a living if peace is at hand ?

    Everybody fear the threat of war,
    Only the murkkans are afraid of the threaf of peace.
    hehehehe

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    • Replies: @Z-man
    Comparing apples to oranges. Eye-raq isn't Korea. I hate that bitch All-bright, aka Lipshitz more than you. Korea can be easily solved if the USA and China make a deal. Trumpmiester can make a deal.
  83. Talha says:
    @KenH
    N. Korea won't go quietly into the good night if it comes to war and anyone in the U.S. high command who's predicting that or believes that should be removed. Neither will they throw down their arms and become nihilistic and materialistic quasi-Americans if we "take out" dear leader Kim Jung Un. Our big brains in the U.S. military also predicted that the Iraqi insurgency would fizzle out once Saddam was arrested and hanged and we know how that turned out.

    N. Korea is very mountainous which lends itself well to a protracted, fourth generation style of warfare which we we've been unable to defeat in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. A land war in N. Korea would quickly become Vietnam in the mountains and N. Korean guerrilla fighters could theoretically last forever if covertly supported and supplied by the Chinese as they were in Korea War I.

    Hey KenH,

    Solid on all points especially if China decides to make this the grave of our expeditionary forces by supplying NK guerrillas with advanced weapons (even worse if Russia decides to weigh in just to give Uncle Sam a black eye for its interference in the Ukraine). If we could barely keep it together against an Iraq that was beat down by a decade of sanctions that wouldn’t even let them import chlorine – you best believe this one is going to go down in history as our Waterloo.

    From what I have read about NK – they don’t have much and have basically lived at a level just above famine for quite a bit. Sacrifice is a daily routine for this kind of people.

    And maybe the US would win, but I think the victory would have everyone thinking; we never want to win like that again.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KenH
    I agree. And not only advanced weaponry but if China and Russia allow their border regions to be used as cross border sanctuaries for N. Korean insurgents this would give them safe haven and respite which would only encourage more to join or keep up the fight.

    No doubt the military eats slightly better than the general population, but privation is nothing new to the N. Koreans and they could probably survive on very little food while planning and mounting insurgent operations against occupying U.S. forces.

    The longer a land war lasts, the more it would sap the morale of the U.S. and S. Korean military especially if casualties are mounting. The U.S. could wind up winning but only in a Pyrrhic sense and it would probably be a political disaster at home similar to the Vietnam era.

    U.S. military theoreticians, neocon intellectuals and liberal interventionists need to begin subscribing more to chaos theory and less to cake walk theory. If they did it would keep us out of a lot of pointless conflicts.

  84. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Avery
    {The truth is that the US hasn’t won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.}

    This an enduring myth that was created to salve the psych wound of being beaten by 'inferior' yellow-man.

    Other than using atomic bombs, there were no constraints on US military. US military was given a free hand to bomb and destroy anything and everything, including civilian targets* in both wars.

    As to nukes.

    China had no nukes during Korean war, but Soviet Union did.

    First SU nuke test: Aug 1949.
    First US thermonuke test: Nov 1952
    First SU thermonuke test: Aug 1953.

    POTUS Truman fired delusional Gen McArthur because he knew SU would most certainly use tac nukes in Korea if US did.
    If you recall, Truman had no compunction using nukes on civilian targets, so he must have had good reason to restrain the crazy generals.

    Same with Viet Nam: yes US military wanted to nuke Hanoi in desperation, but cooler civilian heads prevailed. Again, there was near-certainty that SU would respond in kind in Viet Nam.
    ----
    * targeted deliberately: war crimes.

    It’s really a Narrative Problem.

    Craven, cowardly, and dog-like South Koreans and Korean-Americans never faced up to the fact that it was US that divided Korea and gave half to Stalin — thus creating North Korea — and also committed mass genocide with insane air bombing. The result was the north losing 1/4 of its population.

    Unless SK’s and KA’s are willing to change and own the Narrative, they will be dogs and whores of the US.

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  85. williamkay says: • Website

    Interesting article but no discussion of North Korea’s short and intermediate range missile capability. No one knows for sure but these may have the capacity to profoundly damage US and South Korean airfields and bases in South Korea.

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  86. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @reiner Tor
    China at the time was not in a position to bomb back. But yeah, Truman didn't want to risk a war with the USSR.

    By the way, Truman's great error was not helping Chiang Kai-shek earlier. Chiang's government got very little help from the Americans, at the height of the civil war in 1947 Truman even idiotically introduced an arms embargo against China. (They didn't even deliver arms already paid for by the Chinese government...) The total aid Chiang's government got from the Americans throughout the civil war was perhaps worth a few hundred million dollars, probably significantly less than what Mao got from the USSR. After that, the Americans spent tens of billions of dollars on the Korean War, when with that kind of money Chiang would easily have won and there would have been no Korean War.

    What you are not considering here is the vast amount of aid Chiang and his nationalists got from 1931-45. The truth is he was an ineffective leader and just didn’t enjoy great support among many ordinary Chinese. There was really nothing at all America could have done to have saved China in 1948. The claim that “Truman lost China” was, and still is, a total myth. This charge was one of the reasons LBJ got sucked into Vietnam. He didn’t want to be similarly saddled with the claim “he lost South Vietnam”.

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  87. Duglarri says:
    @Anonymous
    If the North Koreans would do those things - then they need to be bombed into the stone age until every single Nork is eradicated from this earth.

    The future of the world depends upon the complete elimination of North Korea.

    I can understand your (all too common) exhortation to what-the-heck, let’s just kill them all- but what if the best analogy for the North Korean regime is actually a vast hostage-taking? Little ‘Un” has millions of people hostage. And what you’re saying, is, kill the hostages.

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  88. FLODA says:

    I’ve read your comments on NK from years ago, Trump’s staff should arrange for you to visit the White House so you can have a chat with him. I suspect he’d listen to you. Seriously, if someone in the administration is reading this, for Christ’s sake get Mr Margolis to speak with the boss, he knows what he’s talking about.

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  89. @bob sykes
    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn't in Korea I and Vietnam. And China's strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America's main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias.

    The US not winning a war since 1945 is per design. Big money is made fighting wars, not winning them.

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  90. @bluedog
    Have that book and its a very good read indeed, how our so called generals didn't have a clue as to what to do our troops bogged down trying to retreat from that long trek down thru N.K. in summer clothes at 40 below, fighting a foe that they called those little laundry men until Ridgeway stated that you might call them" those little laundry boys" but let me tell you they are tough little son-a-bitches,and so they were..

    …you might call them” those little laundry boys” but let me tell you they are tough little son-a-bitches,and so they were..

    The Viet Cong taught US forces the same lesson.

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  91. basedKRN says: • Website
    @Chris Mallory

    By international treaties, Japan and South Korea are under the US nuclear umbrella, meaning the US is obligated by law to protect these countries if they are attacked.
     
    What court has jurisdiction if the American people decided that we were not going to send our kids do die on the other side of the world on behalf of Japanese or Koreans?


    You could argue that the US should tear up the treaties, but then Japan would likely re-militarize and South Korea would probably build nuclear weapons to counteract the NK nukes.
     
    Sounds like a plan. We should pull every US military unit out of Asia and let the Japanese and SoKo's defend themselves.

    What court has jurisdiction if the American people decided that we were not going to send our kids do die on the other side of the world on behalf of Japanese or Koreans?

    Indeed. Enough Americans have died for our nation and as someone who loves America I’d rather they stay out. Although we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China.

    Sounds like a plan. We should pull every US military unit out of Asia and let the Japanese and SoKo’s defend themselves.

    This is sensible. Just as one cannot always rely on his bigger brother to take care of him or protect him from enemies, a nation must be able to protect itself from others. I don’t see another way around it. This is controversial but I say let all countries have nukes; the incentive for war goes down under MAD.

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    • Replies: @Carroll Price

    Indeed. Enough Americans have died for our nation and as someone who loves America I’d rather they stay out. Although we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China.
     
    Bullshit. The last American soldiers to die defending their country, were Confederate soldiers who died while defending their homes from the US Army.
  92. basedKRN says: • Website
    @Anon
    "My visits to South and North Korea have shown me that soldiers of both nations are amazingly tough, patriotic and ready to fight."

    Funny patriotism where they're most revved up to kill other Koreans.

    A bunch of morons.

    Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans.

    A bunch of morons.

    Morons, just like all those who died in the Civil War.

    But you’re right, in the sense I think both sides have been deceived by our Soviet/US imperialist masters. During the war, Chinese (maybe Soviet as well?)-backed North Korean soldiers fought out of fear of US imperialism over their people, and US-backed South Korean soldiers fought out of fear of Communist rule over their people. You can see this in the movie, Taegukgi. We have been fools, deceived on both sides by Soviet Communism and American Imperialism. I hope we unify and gain independence but it is only a dream as of now.

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    • Replies: @Anon
    "Morons, just like all those who died in the Civil War."

    No. As tragic as the Civil War was, it was a genuine civil conflict among Americans. The conditions and themes were entirely American.

    In contrast, the conditions and themes of the Korean War were imposed by US and USSR. Koreans, being doglike, failed to see the big picture and still fail to.

    Why do South Koreans suck up even now to the US when it was US policy that led to the division of Korea?

    Taegukgi, an imitation Saving Private Ryan, misses the point. It shows how a South Korean soldier is brainwashed by the North to hate his own people and kill them. It overlooks the irony that 'south koreans' were invented by the imposed division and that they too were directed to hate and kill fellow Koreans, the 'north koreans', another construct of imperialism.

    If US and Russia occupied Israel today, divided it, and tried to pit north Israel vs south Israel, all Jews would come together and tell the occupiers to f*** off.
    But Korean morons just went along with the narratives imposed on them by the Occupiers. Granted, there was some resistance in both north and south, but both were ruthlessly put down.

    There was a civil war in China too after WWII, but at least Mao and Chiang were genuine homemade Chinese leaders. In contrast, both Kim and Rhee were imposed puppets by USSR and US.

    Koreans are like dogs and children. They are easily fooled. They don't even own their own narrative on the Korean War. If they did, they would be accusing the US as the creator of North Korea since the Americans came up with the plan of USSR taking half of Korea.

    Suppose I make a pact with another guy to invade your home and divide your family. I split your family into your father, you, and your sister AND your mother and your 2 brothers.
    I take over one part of the family and the other guy own the other part: your mother and brothers.
    Suppose I tell you that I'm the good guy who protects your side from the evil other side of the family under the influence of the other invader. Would it make sense for you to kiss my butt? I mean, it was MY idea with the other guy to do this to your family.

    Unless Koreans square things with the US on the matter of why and how Korea got divided, they are nothing but dogs.

    But South Korea keeps getting divided by globalism.

    Globalism pits Korean homo-agenda-ists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean multi-culturalists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean feminists against the men.

    South Korea itself is totally divided. Its elite are now virtue-signalers who seek to Africanize the nation.

    Koreans are just dogs of the West and easily manipulated.
    They are Puerto Ricans of Asian. South Korea might as well just be a commonwealth of the US.
  93. KenH says:
    @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    Solid on all points especially if China decides to make this the grave of our expeditionary forces by supplying NK guerrillas with advanced weapons (even worse if Russia decides to weigh in just to give Uncle Sam a black eye for its interference in the Ukraine). If we could barely keep it together against an Iraq that was beat down by a decade of sanctions that wouldn't even let them import chlorine - you best believe this one is going to go down in history as our Waterloo.

    From what I have read about NK - they don't have much and have basically lived at a level just above famine for quite a bit. Sacrifice is a daily routine for this kind of people.

    And maybe the US would win, but I think the victory would have everyone thinking; we never want to win like that again.

    Peace.

    I agree. And not only advanced weaponry but if China and Russia allow their border regions to be used as cross border sanctuaries for N. Korean insurgents this would give them safe haven and respite which would only encourage more to join or keep up the fight.

    No doubt the military eats slightly better than the general population, but privation is nothing new to the N. Koreans and they could probably survive on very little food while planning and mounting insurgent operations against occupying U.S. forces.

    The longer a land war lasts, the more it would sap the morale of the U.S. and S. Korean military especially if casualties are mounting. The U.S. could wind up winning but only in a Pyrrhic sense and it would probably be a political disaster at home similar to the Vietnam era.

    U.S. military theoreticians, neocon intellectuals and liberal interventionists need to begin subscribing more to chaos theory and less to cake walk theory. If they did it would keep us out of a lot of pointless conflicts.

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    • Replies: @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    U.S. military theoreticians, neocon intellectuals and liberal interventionists need to begin subscribing more to chaos theory and less to cake walk theory.
     
    They or their kids need to be drafted - period. I refuse to take seriously any support for any US action unless the person is committed to picking up a rifle and going or having their kids go.

    Say what one will about the rulers of the past, but at least many of them had the guts to go out with their army and face the consequences of their actions for having imperial ambitions. That Swedish king I mentioned earlier didn't exactly learn his lesson in Russia. He made an attempt at Norway too a few years later - this time he got the message:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Charles+XII+sweden+skull&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx9IS9sK7TAhUhxFQKHUcfAH0Q_AUIBigB&biw=1344&bih=774

    https://www.plu.edu/scancenter/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2016/01/karl-xii-likfard.jpg

    Our leaders are the worst kind of cowardly vampires. Willing to sacrifice the children of the (barely) working class in order to get their names written in history books and not pay anything in return.

    Peace.

  94. @unit472
    " It would just take an artillery strike on any of South Korea’s 25 nuclear reactors to do turn South Korea into an uninhabitable wasteland..."

    Unless North Korea has mobile artillery of battleship or WW1 railroad gun size able to reach and fire on South Korea's nuclear power plants I wouldn't worry about it. Reactor containment structures are about the sturdiest things mankind makes. You aren't going to penetrate them with battlefield artillery though if the NORKS are close enough to bombard them with that the real risk would be that they would overrun them and then they could just do an intentional Fukushima on the reactors or worse, drain the spent fuel pools and let those catch fire.

    I give you as an example of what reinforced concrete can resist the anti aircraft towers of Berlin. In 1945 these colossal structures were opened to the German civilian population seeking shelter during the Battle of Berlin. Tens of thousands of German civilians poured into them. Soviet guns fired point blank at them but couldn't penetrate the structures. They gave up and by passed them knowing that sooner or later the people would have to come out. Now if the Red Army had had some mobile 16" naval guns there probably would have been a more tragic ending but those didn't and do not exist on land and you can bet that the biggest Nork artillery pieces will be priority targets should war break out

    Reactor containment structures are about the sturdiest things mankind makes. You aren’t going to penetrate them with battlefield artillery

    While this may or may not be true for reactor containment structures, it’s certainly not true for unprotected spent fuel storage areas, where the real menace associated with nuclear power plants exist in great abundance.

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  95. @daniel le mouche
    The only book I've read on the Korean War is IF Stone's firsthand account, The Hidden History of the Korean War. It is absolutely staggering. Why was it fought? No reason.
    It was a military excercise for MacArthur, just kind of for the hell of it.

    The Korean War was sort of an interim exercise to keep Americans distracted and on their toes until a fake Cold War could be got-up and running.

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  96. @basedKRN

    What court has jurisdiction if the American people decided that we were not going to send our kids do die on the other side of the world on behalf of Japanese or Koreans?
     
    Indeed. Enough Americans have died for our nation and as someone who loves America I'd rather they stay out. Although we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China.

    Sounds like a plan. We should pull every US military unit out of Asia and let the Japanese and SoKo’s defend themselves.
     
    This is sensible. Just as one cannot always rely on his bigger brother to take care of him or protect him from enemies, a nation must be able to protect itself from others. I don't see another way around it. This is controversial but I say let all countries have nukes; the incentive for war goes down under MAD.

    Indeed. Enough Americans have died for our nation and as someone who loves America I’d rather they stay out. Although we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China.

    Bullshit. The last American soldiers to die defending their country, were Confederate soldiers who died while defending their homes from the US Army.

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    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @basedKRN

    Bullshit. The last American soldiers to die defending their country, were Confederate soldiers who died while defending their homes from the US Army.
     
    I agree with you 100%. I apologize for not making my words clearer. When I said "we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China," I meant we as in South Koreans need them. I don't think America needs them here although there are arguments to say it is beneficial for the US as well. We do need the US military here to deter NK/Chinese aggression... until we are allowed to have our own nuclear weapons and attempt to fend for ourselves in Asia, that is.
  97. Z-man says:
    @denk
    Speak for yourself ,
    Remember MADeline Albright ?
    '500000 Iraq children are worth it' ,
    She didnt tell you ....its blood for oil.

    'Then the Chinks will collect their American IOU’s with a demilitarized zone in the north and America out of Korea, which is what I want'

    You could've gotten what you want just letting China do its stuff way back in 2003, problem solved, nobody gets hurt.

    Too bad thats not what the pro arsonists in Washington want,
    thats not what their benefitors like Lockheed Martin want,
    No wars , no gain !
    So the Cheney/wolferwicz gang made sure China's peace plan failed.
    Just like how they dismiss China's proposal now.

    War is to Washington like blood is to Dracula.
    How is a man gonna make a living if peace is at hand ?

    Everybody fear the threat of war,
    Only the murkkans are afraid of the threaf of peace.
    hehehehe

    Comparing apples to oranges. Eye-raq isn’t Korea. I hate that bitch All-bright, aka Lipshitz more than you. Korea can be easily solved if the USA and China make a deal. Trumpmiester can make a deal.

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    • Replies: @denk
    Apples and Orange...NOT !

    There are Albright bots in every murkkan dynasty since 1785.

    The current sec of offense, general 'mad dog' Mattis happens to built his 'reputation' on the wasting of Fallujah. [1]

    Now get this, Mattis and Trump both say previous wars were too 'restrained' , too many god damned rules on minimising civilians casualties. !

    'Its like fighting with one arm tied behind our back', they complain bitterly.

    Trump/Mattis,
    'Either we fight to win, collateral damages be damned, or we go home'.

    This is the new 'rules of engagement', or the lack of it thereoff.
    Its not surprising that Trump is chalking up an impressive score on 'collateral damages' barely two months into office.

    This gang might figure that wasting couple of millions Koreans/Chinks ala 1950, is 'worth it' for the prize of a neutered China.


    [1]
    I've posted gory details here before.
  98. Heath says:

    I would suggest the point of this ratcheting up up tensions by DC is not to invade the North themselves but force the Chinese to.

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    • Replies: @Z-man
    I don't think China or the US will invade.
    The 'Grand Bargain', as I see it is that China will allow the US to lob some cruise missiles and smart bombs on selected targets and then let the South Koreans mop up. I'm almost 100% sure most of the Norks will quickly put down their arms at that point.
    Then hopefully the US will leave that friggin place.
  99. Didi says:

    If President Trump does not substantially raise the income of the Federal government before waging war with North Korea that war will also sink every one of his domestic programs.

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    • Replies: @bluedog
    He's working at it war or no war, for he has to cover that promised $56 billion more for the war machine...
  100. Z-man says:
    @Heath
    I would suggest the point of this ratcheting up up tensions by DC is not to invade the North themselves but force the Chinese to.

    I don’t think China or the US will invade.
    The ‘Grand Bargain’, as I see it is that China will allow the US to lob some cruise missiles and smart bombs on selected targets and then let the South Koreans mop up. I’m almost 100% sure most of the Norks will quickly put down their arms at that point.
    Then hopefully the US will leave that friggin place.

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    • Replies: @Heath
    hope so.
    , @The Scalpel
    That will work about as well as it did in Iraq.
  101. @Fran Macadam
    "Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans."

    There was that time Americans killed 750,000 of each other in what's become that national Holy of Holies, the Civil War.

    "Bunch of morons."

    It certainly proves the inferiority of the human race.

    Which race would you prefer to join since you no longer wish to be of this inferior race?

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  102. @bob sykes
    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn't in Korea I and Vietnam. And China's strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America's main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

    “What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.”

    It’s about time, too. There are too many Americans today who feel that America is defined by our physical homeland and ability to bully others economically and militarily, making America no better than any other thuggish empire in times past. The “with us or against us” crowd of fist pumping flag wavers.

    The freedoms (some of which came much, much later in our history to some citizens than for others) that actually had made America great in past have been eviscerated in the name of security and safety, to the point that we now have a government which feels entitled to stick its nose in your private communications lest you be guilty of contributing money to a non-profit which used to employ a janitor whose second cousin matches the description of someone brown-colored who suspiciously bought several lengths of pipe in his local hardware store AND went on vacation to Afghanistan several years ago. Oh, and SWAT teams in riot gear being used to serve warrants to non-violent offenders. Nothing new to you Unz folks so I’ll quit my blabbing.

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  103. Corvinus says:
    @Z-man
    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned. Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn't in the Soviet block, couldn't. If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. The South always claims that it will be 'very expensive' for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it's genetic or whatever, a FLAW.

    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned.

    “Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn’t in the Soviet block, couldn’t.”

    Apples to oranges comparison. North Korea is China’s b—-, a nation that serves as a counterweight to South Korea and Japan.

    “If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. ”

    No, they could have “really wanted to”, considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950. Without his interference, perhaps North and South Korea could have come to an agreement to unify.

    “The South always claims that it will be ‘very expensive’ for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it’s genetic or whatever, a FLAW.”

    Germany united only when the East German communist government fell. Then the road to liberation began in earnest.

    “Who’s Vox Day? Castalia House?”

    You know him. He has referenced you many times. Stop lying.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-alt-lites-fatal-flaw.html

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    • Replies: @Z-man

    You know him. He has referenced you many times. Stop lying.
     
    LOL!!! I had no idea, another Z-man, lol!!
    , @Anon
    US is the reason why there is both north and south korea.

    US hatched the plan to have Soviets invade and take half of Korea. It was like Ribbentropp-Molotov pact.

    Also, US prevented the unification of Korea by entering into the very war it triggered with feigned ignorance and having given green light to the north to invade.

    The main reason why the US made tensions much worse in the peninsula is because it grew alarmed by vastly improved relations between China and South Korea, both economically and diplomatically. US wants to keep the South as its whore-puppet.

    So, US made the North more paranoid and overreact. Then, it pushed South into harder stance and accepting US missiles(that are really directed at China). This pissed off China, and now the relations between SK and China has worsened. And US laughs at easily manipulated SK's.

    , @Anon

    No, they could have “really wanted to”, considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950.
     
    Kim Il-sung was the one who wanted to invade South Korea. His objective was to unify Korean under his Communist regime. Mao wanted nothing to do with it as his Communist army had just won the 4-year civil war over the Nationalist army. China was in dire need of rebuild after the Sino-Japanese war and the subsequent civil war. In addition, Mao was planning to finish Chiang Kai-shek off. If war broke out in Korean peninsula, Mao had reasoned that Americans might get involved in Asia, and could stop the Communist's advance to Taiwan.

    Kim somehow convinced Stalin to give him the green light. Stalin, for whatever reason, changed his mind about possible American intervention. Kim then went to Beijing and asked for support from Mao, who begrudgingly agreed to the invasion.
  104. basedKRN says: • Website
    @Anonymous White Male
    "If there were ever a Just Cause for the Yanks to invade and bring democracy somewhere,"

    There never was and never will be. Democracy is not some magic panacea that will cure everyone everywhere. If you've paid attention over the last 3 decades you would know this. And the fact that you somehow justified draining the life out of your own country to accomplish these laughable military and ideological goals is really sad.

    Congratulations to all the arm chair generals here. I heard pretty much every talking point on this topic in this thread. As if any of you know anything.

    “If there were ever a Just Cause for the Yanks to invade and bring democracy somewhere,”

    There never was and never will be. Democracy is not some magic panacea that will cure everyone everywhere. If you’ve paid attention over the last 3 decades you would know this. And the fact that you somehow justified draining the life out of your own country to accomplish these laughable military and ideological goals is really sad.

    Congratulations to all the arm chair generals here. I heard pretty much every talking point on this topic in this thread. As if any of you know anything.

    Thank you, sir. I’m glad there are people who see this. Even if Yanks have noble intent, it seems along the way they have caused way too much destruction and brought about the resentment of the world. Even so, it seems a lot of (((neoconservatives))) have been the ones responsible for bringing “democracy” to the world, and it hasn’t been all roses and chocolates for those involved.

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  105. Z-man says:
    @Corvinus
    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned.

    "Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn’t in the Soviet block, couldn’t."

    Apples to oranges comparison. North Korea is China's b----, a nation that serves as a counterweight to South Korea and Japan.

    "If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. "

    No, they could have "really wanted to", considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950. Without his interference, perhaps North and South Korea could have come to an agreement to unify.

    "The South always claims that it will be ‘very expensive’ for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it’s genetic or whatever, a FLAW."

    Germany united only when the East German communist government fell. Then the road to liberation began in earnest.

    "Who’s Vox Day? Castalia House?"

    You know him. He has referenced you many times. Stop lying.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-alt-lites-fatal-flaw.html

    You know him. He has referenced you many times. Stop lying.

    LOL!!! I had no idea, another Z-man, lol!!

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  106. basedKRN says: • Website
    @Carroll Price

    Indeed. Enough Americans have died for our nation and as someone who loves America I’d rather they stay out. Although we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China.
     
    Bullshit. The last American soldiers to die defending their country, were Confederate soldiers who died while defending their homes from the US Army.

    Bullshit. The last American soldiers to die defending their country, were Confederate soldiers who died while defending their homes from the US Army.

    I agree with you 100%. I apologize for not making my words clearer. When I said “we do currently need them for protection in South Korea from NK/China,” I meant we as in South Koreans need them. I don’t think America needs them here although there are arguments to say it is beneficial for the US as well. We do need the US military here to deter NK/Chinese aggression… until we are allowed to have our own nuclear weapons and attempt to fend for ourselves in Asia, that is.

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  107. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @basedKRN

    Funny patriotism where they’re most revved up to kill other Koreans.

    A bunch of morons.
     
    Morons, just like all those who died in the Civil War.

    But you're right, in the sense I think both sides have been deceived by our Soviet/US imperialist masters. During the war, Chinese (maybe Soviet as well?)-backed North Korean soldiers fought out of fear of US imperialism over their people, and US-backed South Korean soldiers fought out of fear of Communist rule over their people. You can see this in the movie, Taegukgi. We have been fools, deceived on both sides by Soviet Communism and American Imperialism. I hope we unify and gain independence but it is only a dream as of now.

    “Morons, just like all those who died in the Civil War.”

    No. As tragic as the Civil War was, it was a genuine civil conflict among Americans. The conditions and themes were entirely American.

    In contrast, the conditions and themes of the Korean War were imposed by US and USSR. Koreans, being doglike, failed to see the big picture and still fail to.

    Why do South Koreans suck up even now to the US when it was US policy that led to the division of Korea?

    Taegukgi, an imitation Saving Private Ryan, misses the point. It shows how a South Korean soldier is brainwashed by the North to hate his own people and kill them. It overlooks the irony that ‘south koreans’ were invented by the imposed division and that they too were directed to hate and kill fellow Koreans, the ‘north koreans’, another construct of imperialism.

    If US and Russia occupied Israel today, divided it, and tried to pit north Israel vs south Israel, all Jews would come together and tell the occupiers to f*** off.
    But Korean morons just went along with the narratives imposed on them by the Occupiers. Granted, there was some resistance in both north and south, but both were ruthlessly put down.

    There was a civil war in China too after WWII, but at least Mao and Chiang were genuine homemade Chinese leaders. In contrast, both Kim and Rhee were imposed puppets by USSR and US.

    Koreans are like dogs and children. They are easily fooled. They don’t even own their own narrative on the Korean War. If they did, they would be accusing the US as the creator of North Korea since the Americans came up with the plan of USSR taking half of Korea.

    Suppose I make a pact with another guy to invade your home and divide your family. I split your family into your father, you, and your sister AND your mother and your 2 brothers.
    I take over one part of the family and the other guy own the other part: your mother and brothers.
    Suppose I tell you that I’m the good guy who protects your side from the evil other side of the family under the influence of the other invader. Would it make sense for you to kiss my butt? I mean, it was MY idea with the other guy to do this to your family.

    Unless Koreans square things with the US on the matter of why and how Korea got divided, they are nothing but dogs.

    But South Korea keeps getting divided by globalism.

    Globalism pits Korean homo-agenda-ists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean multi-culturalists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean feminists against the men.

    South Korea itself is totally divided. Its elite are now virtue-signalers who seek to Africanize the nation.

    Koreans are just dogs of the West and easily manipulated.
    They are Puerto Ricans of Asian. South Korea might as well just be a commonwealth of the US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @basedKRN
    oh hai end of minjok blogger
    why dont u get in touch with me n we can talk more
    contact me on youtube or twitter

    this is u isnt it?
    http://endofminjok.blogspot.kr/2017/04/koreans-need-to-create-and-own.html
    , @Carroll Price
    What you refer to as the Civil War was not a civil war. Much like the Revolutionary War fought with England, the misnamed Civil War was a war fought between the citizens of two sovereign nations; namely The Confederate States of America and The United States. On the other hand, Civil wars, are always fought between citizens of the same nation, usually for the purpose of gaining control or greater influence of a common governing authority. The most accurate term for the erroneously named Civil War would be The War to Prevent Southern Independence because that's what it was.
  108. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned.

    "Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn’t in the Soviet block, couldn’t."

    Apples to oranges comparison. North Korea is China's b----, a nation that serves as a counterweight to South Korea and Japan.

    "If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. "

    No, they could have "really wanted to", considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950. Without his interference, perhaps North and South Korea could have come to an agreement to unify.

    "The South always claims that it will be ‘very expensive’ for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it’s genetic or whatever, a FLAW."

    Germany united only when the East German communist government fell. Then the road to liberation began in earnest.

    "Who’s Vox Day? Castalia House?"

    You know him. He has referenced you many times. Stop lying.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-alt-lites-fatal-flaw.html

    US is the reason why there is both north and south korea.

    US hatched the plan to have Soviets invade and take half of Korea. It was like Ribbentropp-Molotov pact.

    Also, US prevented the unification of Korea by entering into the very war it triggered with feigned ignorance and having given green light to the north to invade.

    The main reason why the US made tensions much worse in the peninsula is because it grew alarmed by vastly improved relations between China and South Korea, both economically and diplomatically. US wants to keep the South as its whore-puppet.

    So, US made the North more paranoid and overreact. Then, it pushed South into harder stance and accepting US missiles(that are really directed at China). This pissed off China, and now the relations between SK and China has worsened. And US laughs at easily manipulated SK’s.

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  109. Talha says:
    @KenH
    I agree. And not only advanced weaponry but if China and Russia allow their border regions to be used as cross border sanctuaries for N. Korean insurgents this would give them safe haven and respite which would only encourage more to join or keep up the fight.

    No doubt the military eats slightly better than the general population, but privation is nothing new to the N. Koreans and they could probably survive on very little food while planning and mounting insurgent operations against occupying U.S. forces.

    The longer a land war lasts, the more it would sap the morale of the U.S. and S. Korean military especially if casualties are mounting. The U.S. could wind up winning but only in a Pyrrhic sense and it would probably be a political disaster at home similar to the Vietnam era.

    U.S. military theoreticians, neocon intellectuals and liberal interventionists need to begin subscribing more to chaos theory and less to cake walk theory. If they did it would keep us out of a lot of pointless conflicts.

    Hey KenH,

    U.S. military theoreticians, neocon intellectuals and liberal interventionists need to begin subscribing more to chaos theory and less to cake walk theory.

    They or their kids need to be drafted – period. I refuse to take seriously any support for any US action unless the person is committed to picking up a rifle and going or having their kids go.

    Say what one will about the rulers of the past, but at least many of them had the guts to go out with their army and face the consequences of their actions for having imperial ambitions. That Swedish king I mentioned earlier didn’t exactly learn his lesson in Russia. He made an attempt at Norway too a few years later – this time he got the message:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Charles+XII+sweden+skull&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx9IS9sK7TAhUhxFQKHUcfAH0Q_AUIBigB&biw=1344&bih=774


    Our leaders are the worst kind of cowardly vampires. Willing to sacrifice the children of the (barely) working class in order to get their names written in history books and not pay anything in return.

    Peace.

    Read More
    • Replies: @KenH

    They or their kids need to be drafted – period.
     
    Total agreement. If they want war then at least one of their children should be shipped off to the killing fields that their policies create. If that ever becomes a reality you'd see the usual warmongers turn into doves and pacifists overnight. It's time they had some skin in the game.

    And yes, most rulers of the past on any side would lead from the front and risk death, injury or dismemberment if they partook in or started a war for imperial gains or other motives. That was at least worthy of some respect. Some may have been bastards but they were at least brave bastards.

    Today's leaders, especially in the West, are spineless, were often draft dodgers or avoided military service and lead from far in the back using the children of others to fight and die. They are deserving of nothing but contempt.
  110. Some of the idiots here that actually think a war with North Korea will be easy because Iraq (allegedly) was are appalling.

    First of all, North Koreans aren’t Arabs. They don’t run like Arab armies do.

    Second, Pentagon war games show 50,000 US casualties within the first ninety days.

    Third, some years back, two NK Special Forces escaped a ground NK submarine in SK. Pursued by the entire SK military and police, they stayed at large 53 days and killed 11 of their pursuers. Eric’s 88,000 figure is allegedly low – the real figure is allegedly well over 100,000 and perhaps as high as 200,000. That would be one-fifth of the North’s army are highly trained, very tough guys. Imagine even the 88,000 infiltrating South Korea and behind US lines or running an insurgency for years if the US wins.

    Fourth, I read recently where the US “lost” FIFTY North Korean submarines out of the 70 or so they possess. That is, the US has no idea where those 50 subs are!

    I do not expect NK to use nukes at all except as a barrier against a US/SK advance. They probably cannot deliver them in their missiles and delivery by other means would force the US to use nukes, which NK can’t possibly want no matter how crazy their leaders may be. But triggering one off at the head of a US advance would make sense and would be relatively easy to do.

    But they have 4,400 old model tanks, and between 10 and 20 thousand artillery and multi-barreled rocket launchers. And no, those won’t be easily bombed away in a few days or weeks like some people here think. And old hardware can kill you just as fast as new hardware if you have enough of it.

    And no, you don’t just get rid of a million-man army. In Iraq, the military was willing to abandon Saddam and was not willing to destroy itself against superior US forces. They were also willing to conduct an insurgency for the next five years under orders from their leaders. We can expect at least as much from the much more highly motivated NK forces.

    People who think a NK war will be easy should enlist and go to the front lines. Be part of the 20,000 or so US troops already in Korea, who will likely be wiped out in the first 72 hours of the war. We could stand to lose a few more morons from this country.

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  111. oggy says:

    Your “governments” and those who think they are serving “SATAN”, for their own gain, are about to destroy your planet.

    When they engage in a NUCLEAR EXCHANGE, IT WILL DESTROY EARTH’S MAGNETIC FIELD.

    When that happens, the Earth will breathe its’ last breath and will DIE…COMPLETELY, AND THERE WILL BE NO RECOVERY. THE EARTH WILL STOP SPINNING.

    When the earth stops spinning or even slows down significantly, suddenly or in a relative “very short period of time”, the counter gravitational effect of the spin will cease. The earth will rapidly contract and “implode” under crushing gravity. Those who think they are safe in caves are mistaken. They will be crushed. But will be unable to die. Funny. Even the atmosphere and everything else will contract under the new gravity and implode/explode and be crushed by immense gravity. All satellites and space stations, aircraft etc. will fall back to earth.
    When the initial implosion reaches its “critical mass”, perhaps when the moon crashes back to earth, the earth will then “explode” quite violently. Not that the earth will explode into a million pieces, maybe. Maybe just enough for the molten innards to completely engulf the surface of the planet. This will be caused by a “world war”, eliciting God’s final wrath upon the wicked of this Earth.

    On that day, the very last of the “saved” will be ascended back to the light from where we came. All of God’s creatures will be ascended, in fact, the mass “die offs” of birds and sea creatures etc., are some of those that have already been returned to “Heaven” where, at this point, they will remain. Or…..maybe I am just full of shit. Like it or not.

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  112. ” Nobody said we wont get our hair messed up, BUT 120,000,000 to 200,ooo,ooo,dead TOPS!”

    GENERAL BUCK TURDGESON. on nuclear war with the “RUSKIES” “toe to toe”

    Doctor STRANGELOVE was a really great MOVIE BUTT WAIT, so was the movie BLAZING SADDLES ! BUTT WAIT NIETHER of these MOVIES makes GREAT POLICY so stop following hollywood in DC!

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  113. basedKRN says: • Website
    @Anon
    "Morons, just like all those who died in the Civil War."

    No. As tragic as the Civil War was, it was a genuine civil conflict among Americans. The conditions and themes were entirely American.

    In contrast, the conditions and themes of the Korean War were imposed by US and USSR. Koreans, being doglike, failed to see the big picture and still fail to.

    Why do South Koreans suck up even now to the US when it was US policy that led to the division of Korea?

    Taegukgi, an imitation Saving Private Ryan, misses the point. It shows how a South Korean soldier is brainwashed by the North to hate his own people and kill them. It overlooks the irony that 'south koreans' were invented by the imposed division and that they too were directed to hate and kill fellow Koreans, the 'north koreans', another construct of imperialism.

    If US and Russia occupied Israel today, divided it, and tried to pit north Israel vs south Israel, all Jews would come together and tell the occupiers to f*** off.
    But Korean morons just went along with the narratives imposed on them by the Occupiers. Granted, there was some resistance in both north and south, but both were ruthlessly put down.

    There was a civil war in China too after WWII, but at least Mao and Chiang were genuine homemade Chinese leaders. In contrast, both Kim and Rhee were imposed puppets by USSR and US.

    Koreans are like dogs and children. They are easily fooled. They don't even own their own narrative on the Korean War. If they did, they would be accusing the US as the creator of North Korea since the Americans came up with the plan of USSR taking half of Korea.

    Suppose I make a pact with another guy to invade your home and divide your family. I split your family into your father, you, and your sister AND your mother and your 2 brothers.
    I take over one part of the family and the other guy own the other part: your mother and brothers.
    Suppose I tell you that I'm the good guy who protects your side from the evil other side of the family under the influence of the other invader. Would it make sense for you to kiss my butt? I mean, it was MY idea with the other guy to do this to your family.

    Unless Koreans square things with the US on the matter of why and how Korea got divided, they are nothing but dogs.

    But South Korea keeps getting divided by globalism.

    Globalism pits Korean homo-agenda-ists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean multi-culturalists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean feminists against the men.

    South Korea itself is totally divided. Its elite are now virtue-signalers who seek to Africanize the nation.

    Koreans are just dogs of the West and easily manipulated.
    They are Puerto Ricans of Asian. South Korea might as well just be a commonwealth of the US.

    oh hai end of minjok blogger
    why dont u get in touch with me n we can talk more
    contact me on youtube or twitter

    this is u isnt it?

    http://endofminjok.blogspot.kr/2017/04/koreans-need-to-create-and-own.html

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  114. I think the US has come to realize Kim Jong-Un isn’t going to back down. The US is going to have its bluff called by someone with the means and intent to start a global war if not left alone, and now either the US is seen by the whole world to back down, or it must initiate an action likely to lead to its own destruction.

    The US has involved China in the hope it can get it out of this mess, and if it does save the US we’ll all know it.

    Read More
  115. bluedog says:
    @Didi
    If President Trump does not substantially raise the income of the Federal government before waging war with North Korea that war will also sink every one of his domestic programs.

    He’s working at it war or no war, for he has to cover that promised $56 billion more for the war machine…

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  116. BASUDEB says: • Website
    @The Alarmist

    "Exactly what has North Korea done to move front and center to America’s list of villains?"
     
    Existed without showing the fealty expected of lesser states.

    "It took the US six months to assemble a land force in Saudi Arabia just to attack feeble Iraq."
     
    Well, to be fair, Iraq's army was somewhat feared at the time ... even in the second go-around, we expected it to be a bit of a slog, but the wankers wouldn't even put up much of a fight even for their homeland ... at least, not until we declared victory.

    "Memory of the bloody, indecisive first Koran War ...."
     
    Freudian slip ???

    "North Korea is a horrid, brutal regime."
     
    As Henry David Thoreau once wrote, "How can you know that which you are merely told?"

    "US war planners believe that an attempt to assassinate or isolate North Korean leader Kim Jung-un – known in the military as ‘decapitation’- would cause the North Korean armed forces to scatter and give up."
     
    To your point, see Iraq and Libya to see how that works out lately. BTW, isn't that a war crime?

    Why all these talks of war? What has NK done to anybody? They know the few atomic weapons they have are their only safeguard against a US attack. They are being intimidated all along. Why not let them go their own way. They did not succeed in building their economy in a strong way mainly because of sanctions. The US is afraid to see a successful Cuba or North Korea. That’s a fact. You protect Saudi and attack North Korea. Is it not ridiculous from a moral point of view?

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  117. @bob sykes
    Any discussion of a new Korean War that does not emphasize China is asinine, like this one. China is the central, most important actor on the peninsula, and China controls whatever happens there.

    China will not permit an American ally on the Yalu River. Any state bordering China on the Yalu must be explicitly pro-Chinese. If a war does break out on the peninsula, China will intervene on the side of the North Koreans.

    To call the first Korean War inconclusive is tendentious: China decisively defeated the US/NATO forces, and did so with with a primitive WW I style army and no navy or air force to speak of. Human wave assaults sufficed then. They did not occupy the whole peninsula because their primitive army lacked the logistical capacity to do so.

    Today China has a large modern military with a full spectrum of capabilities, including tactical and strategic nuclear weapons and a large amphibious force. China would crush the US, Japanese and South Korean militaries, even assuming Russia stands aside. It didn't in Korea I and Vietnam. And China's strategic nuclear forces would prevent the US from using nuclear weapons on the peninsula. Anyway, the antique nuclear weapons we have today may not even work.

    America's main weakness is its utterly delusional political and military leadership. The military that invaded Iraq no longer exists, and it was smaller than the one that liberated Kuwait. The US military has been downsized to the point that it cannot meet our treaty commitments. Sequestration has stripped the remaining military of funds needed for training and maintenance. Only a third of our fighter/bombers are available for war, and the pilots get only half the hours needed to maintain their skills. We do not practice combined arms warfare any more.

    We have not fought a peer since 1945, and since 1945 we have a long record of failure. At present, we are fighting and losing to lightly armed Third World militias. The use of the MOAB against ISIS in Afghanistan was an indicator of panic in our military command there and at home. It is an open question as to whether we can defeat ISIS in Syria and Iraq, and we certainly cannot unless we ally ourselves with Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and Assad.

    What we are watching today is the collapse of the American military and empire.

    Bob Sykes, I totally agree with your analogy. China’s military has come a long way since the Korean War of 1950-53. Back then, as you said, the Chinese military was quite primitive; yet, it was able to drive a much more advanced US/NATO army back across the 38th Parallel in waves. Militarily, the US/NATO suffered a major defeat, and the war itself ended with an armistice.
    Today, however, would be an even worse scenario, as China’s military is totally modernized with superior aircraft, naval vessels and weapons systems. The Chinese have vowed to let no invaders near the Yalu River; so, Pentagon and the Trump Administration beware .. Don’t do anything that will not only provoke North Korea, but China as well.

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  118. Miro23 says:

    If North Korea gets into a fight with the Americans, who would the Chinese public be rooting for?

    It could well be the N. Koreans, in which case the US shouldn’t expect too much help from China.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Z-man
    It would be a quick event. A few command and control targets, the nuclear and missile sites and some intense bombing of the artillery threatening Seoul. The ROKAF would probably take part in the last target. By then I would think most of the regular Nork army would lay down their weapons.
    China would have gotten some assurances/concessions from the US beforehand, i.e., demilitarized zone, American withdrawal from the peninsula, which is what Trump wants. Win-win for China and US.
  119. Z-man says:
    @Miro23
    If North Korea gets into a fight with the Americans, who would the Chinese public be rooting for?

    It could well be the N. Koreans, in which case the US shouldn't expect too much help from China.

    It would be a quick event. A few command and control targets, the nuclear and missile sites and some intense bombing of the artillery threatening Seoul. The ROKAF would probably take part in the last target. By then I would think most of the regular Nork army would lay down their weapons.
    China would have gotten some assurances/concessions from the US beforehand, i.e., demilitarized zone, American withdrawal from the peninsula, which is what Trump wants. Win-win for China and US.

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Keep dreaming but sooner rather than later you will have to come back to reality do you really think China Russia or anyone else believes the bullshit this country puts out, ask Libya Iraq Russia how good our word is,as the man said our word ain't worth a mouthful of warm spit and he was right..
  120. I am 84 years old. I fought in the Korean War, 1951-52 as a rifleman. For people who don’t know who a rifleman is, well we do the killing, eyeball-to-eyeball. I am afraid of the politicians in D.C., no matter what we do. If those assholes had let us go on through Korea, all the way to China, the entire country would be ours and not an idiot Kim. But the American pols thought they were being good guys by letting the old Kim keep his part of Korea. Never trust a politician, not even our own.

    The written word about what could, or might happen, that this man wrote for us is right on. What he writes of what can or will happen, one or more of such will probably happen. It scares you, doesn’t it?

    Read More
    • Replies: @bluedog
    Hmm they did let you go all the way to China then drove you all the way back up to where you started from, and dead American littered the roads all the way back, if the assholes as you called them had stopped at the 38th as Ridgeway advocated then that would have been avoided, but the neo-cons and Free China Group would have it no other way...
  121. BDub says:

    “Most Americans still can’t locate Korea on a map….” “Does anyone in the White House know that North Korea borders on Russia and…”

    I could take you more seriously is you could demonstrate yourself where Korea was on a map, and that is doesn’t actually border on Russia.

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    • Replies: @Heath
    Actually it does. a 17 kilometer stretch along last part of the Tumen river before it feeds into the Sea of Japan.
  122. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Corvinus
    Are you Korean? Are you married to a Korean? Do you have a Korean fetish?
    All I said is true and you even confirmed some of it. China is the biggest reason there still is a NK, yes and I said that in not so many words. But other reasons which I said are also factors.
    Internal strife? That includes the flaws that I mentioned.

    "Why is it that East and West Germany united after the fall of the wall and Korea, yeah I know it wasn’t in the Soviet block, couldn’t."

    Apples to oranges comparison. North Korea is China's b----, a nation that serves as a counterweight to South Korea and Japan.

    "If they really wanted to they could have convinced the Chinese but the North and the South did very little to try to unify. "

    No, they could have "really wanted to", considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950. Without his interference, perhaps North and South Korea could have come to an agreement to unify.

    "The South always claims that it will be ‘very expensive’ for them to unite. It was expensive for Germany but they did it! Flaw baby, whether it’s genetic or whatever, a FLAW."

    Germany united only when the East German communist government fell. Then the road to liberation began in earnest.

    "Who’s Vox Day? Castalia House?"

    You know him. He has referenced you many times. Stop lying.

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-alt-lites-fatal-flaw.html

    No, they could have “really wanted to”, considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950.

    Kim Il-sung was the one who wanted to invade South Korea. His objective was to unify Korean under his Communist regime. Mao wanted nothing to do with it as his Communist army had just won the 4-year civil war over the Nationalist army. China was in dire need of rebuild after the Sino-Japanese war and the subsequent civil war. In addition, Mao was planning to finish Chiang Kai-shek off. If war broke out in Korean peninsula, Mao had reasoned that Americans might get involved in Asia, and could stop the Communist’s advance to Taiwan.

    Kim somehow convinced Stalin to give him the green light. Stalin, for whatever reason, changed his mind about possible American intervention. Kim then went to Beijing and asked for support from Mao, who begrudgingly agreed to the invasion.

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    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @Anon
    "Kim Il-sung was the one who wanted to invade South Korea. His objective was to unify Korean under his Communist regime."

    Kim's desire to 'invade' South Korea was nationalistic than ideological. Also, 'north' and 'south' were artificial constructs imposed on Korea. How can a Korean invade Korea? He was only trying to unite a nation divided by outside powers.
    Likewise, Rhee of South also wanted to 'invade' the north and unify the nation. He was also driven by nationalism.

    The irony is that, even as both tried to undo the division of Korea imposed by foreign powers, their positions as leaders owed to those very powers that installed them.

    The idea of 'north korea' invading 'south korea' OR 'south korea' invading 'north korea' was constructed by foreign powers that created those two artificial entities.

    Suppose foreign powers divide Israel into north and south. Suppose Israelis in the north try to unify with the south or those in the south tried to unify with the north. Is that 'invasion'?

    The real invasion was USSR and US occupied Korea and created two artificial nations that set brother against brother. As the result, both the north regime and south regime were tainted. Neither was a genuine leader that sprung from the soil with people's backing.

  123. KenH says:
    @Talha
    Hey KenH,

    U.S. military theoreticians, neocon intellectuals and liberal interventionists need to begin subscribing more to chaos theory and less to cake walk theory.
     
    They or their kids need to be drafted - period. I refuse to take seriously any support for any US action unless the person is committed to picking up a rifle and going or having their kids go.

    Say what one will about the rulers of the past, but at least many of them had the guts to go out with their army and face the consequences of their actions for having imperial ambitions. That Swedish king I mentioned earlier didn't exactly learn his lesson in Russia. He made an attempt at Norway too a few years later - this time he got the message:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Charles+XII+sweden+skull&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx9IS9sK7TAhUhxFQKHUcfAH0Q_AUIBigB&biw=1344&bih=774

    https://www.plu.edu/scancenter/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2016/01/karl-xii-likfard.jpg

    Our leaders are the worst kind of cowardly vampires. Willing to sacrifice the children of the (barely) working class in order to get their names written in history books and not pay anything in return.

    Peace.

    They or their kids need to be drafted – period.

    Total agreement. If they want war then at least one of their children should be shipped off to the killing fields that their policies create. If that ever becomes a reality you’d see the usual warmongers turn into doves and pacifists overnight. It’s time they had some skin in the game.

    And yes, most rulers of the past on any side would lead from the front and risk death, injury or dismemberment if they partook in or started a war for imperial gains or other motives. That was at least worthy of some respect. Some may have been bastards but they were at least brave bastards.

    Today’s leaders, especially in the West, are spineless, were often draft dodgers or avoided military service and lead from far in the back using the children of others to fight and die. They are deserving of nothing but contempt.

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  124. @Anon
    "Morons, just like all those who died in the Civil War."

    No. As tragic as the Civil War was, it was a genuine civil conflict among Americans. The conditions and themes were entirely American.

    In contrast, the conditions and themes of the Korean War were imposed by US and USSR. Koreans, being doglike, failed to see the big picture and still fail to.

    Why do South Koreans suck up even now to the US when it was US policy that led to the division of Korea?

    Taegukgi, an imitation Saving Private Ryan, misses the point. It shows how a South Korean soldier is brainwashed by the North to hate his own people and kill them. It overlooks the irony that 'south koreans' were invented by the imposed division and that they too were directed to hate and kill fellow Koreans, the 'north koreans', another construct of imperialism.

    If US and Russia occupied Israel today, divided it, and tried to pit north Israel vs south Israel, all Jews would come together and tell the occupiers to f*** off.
    But Korean morons just went along with the narratives imposed on them by the Occupiers. Granted, there was some resistance in both north and south, but both were ruthlessly put down.

    There was a civil war in China too after WWII, but at least Mao and Chiang were genuine homemade Chinese leaders. In contrast, both Kim and Rhee were imposed puppets by USSR and US.

    Koreans are like dogs and children. They are easily fooled. They don't even own their own narrative on the Korean War. If they did, they would be accusing the US as the creator of North Korea since the Americans came up with the plan of USSR taking half of Korea.

    Suppose I make a pact with another guy to invade your home and divide your family. I split your family into your father, you, and your sister AND your mother and your 2 brothers.
    I take over one part of the family and the other guy own the other part: your mother and brothers.
    Suppose I tell you that I'm the good guy who protects your side from the evil other side of the family under the influence of the other invader. Would it make sense for you to kiss my butt? I mean, it was MY idea with the other guy to do this to your family.

    Unless Koreans square things with the US on the matter of why and how Korea got divided, they are nothing but dogs.

    But South Korea keeps getting divided by globalism.

    Globalism pits Korean homo-agenda-ists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean multi-culturalists vs nationalists.
    It pits Korean feminists against the men.

    South Korea itself is totally divided. Its elite are now virtue-signalers who seek to Africanize the nation.

    Koreans are just dogs of the West and easily manipulated.
    They are Puerto Ricans of Asian. South Korea might as well just be a commonwealth of the US.

    What you refer to as the Civil War was not a civil war. Much like the Revolutionary War fought with England, the misnamed Civil War was a war fought between the citizens of two sovereign nations; namely The Confederate States of America and The United States. On the other hand, Civil wars, are always fought between citizens of the same nation, usually for the purpose of gaining control or greater influence of a common governing authority. The most accurate term for the erroneously named Civil War would be The War to Prevent Southern Independence because that’s what it was.

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  125. Heath says:
    @Z-man
    I don't think China or the US will invade.
    The 'Grand Bargain', as I see it is that China will allow the US to lob some cruise missiles and smart bombs on selected targets and then let the South Koreans mop up. I'm almost 100% sure most of the Norks will quickly put down their arms at that point.
    Then hopefully the US will leave that friggin place.

    hope so.

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  126. Heath says:
    @BDub
    "Most Americans still can’t locate Korea on a map...." "Does anyone in the White House know that North Korea borders on Russia and..."

    I could take you more seriously is you could demonstrate yourself where Korea was on a map, and that is doesn't actually border on Russia.

    Actually it does. a 17 kilometer stretch along last part of the Tumen river before it feeds into the Sea of Japan.

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  127. denk says:
    @Z-man
    Comparing apples to oranges. Eye-raq isn't Korea. I hate that bitch All-bright, aka Lipshitz more than you. Korea can be easily solved if the USA and China make a deal. Trumpmiester can make a deal.

    Apples and Orange…NOT !

    There are Albright bots in every murkkan dynasty since 1785.

    The current sec of offense, general ‘mad dog’ Mattis happens to built his ‘reputation’ on the wasting of Fallujah. [1]

    Now get this, Mattis and Trump both say previous wars were too ‘restrained’ , too many god damned rules on minimising civilians casualties. !

    ‘Its like fighting with one arm tied behind our back’, they complain bitterly.

    Trump/Mattis,
    ‘Either we fight to win, collateral damages be damned, or we go home’.

    This is the new ‘rules of engagement’, or the lack of it thereoff.
    Its not surprising that Trump is chalking up an impressive score on ‘collateral damages’ barely two months into office.

    This gang might figure that wasting couple of millions Koreans/Chinks ala 1950, is ‘worth it’ for the prize of a neutered China.

    [1]
    I’ve posted gory details here before.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    It's true that wars cannot be fought and won with one hand behind your back, with that being the primary reason why war should be an absolute last resort and avoided if at all possible. I can assure you that if the US ever goads Russia, China, N. Korea or Iran into a shooting war, American soldiers (or civilians as the case may be) will be shown no mercy. Which, in my humble opinion, would be one the best thing to ever happen to a pampered nation of ignorant people who (due to never having suffered the consequences of their actions) flippantly look upon war as mere fun and games.
  128. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Anon

    No, they could have “really wanted to”, considering that Mao Zedong used his influence to convince North Korea to invade South Korea in 1950.
     
    Kim Il-sung was the one who wanted to invade South Korea. His objective was to unify Korean under his Communist regime. Mao wanted nothing to do with it as his Communist army had just won the 4-year civil war over the Nationalist army. China was in dire need of rebuild after the Sino-Japanese war and the subsequent civil war. In addition, Mao was planning to finish Chiang Kai-shek off. If war broke out in Korean peninsula, Mao had reasoned that Americans might get involved in Asia, and could stop the Communist's advance to Taiwan.

    Kim somehow convinced Stalin to give him the green light. Stalin, for whatever reason, changed his mind about possible American intervention. Kim then went to Beijing and asked for support from Mao, who begrudgingly agreed to the invasion.

    “Kim Il-sung was the one who wanted to invade South Korea. His objective was to unify Korean under his Communist regime.”

    Kim’s desire to ‘invade’ South Korea was nationalistic than ideological. Also, ‘north’ and ‘south’ were artificial constructs imposed on Korea. How can a Korean invade Korea? He was only trying to unite a nation divided by outside powers.
    Likewise, Rhee of South also wanted to ‘invade’ the north and unify the nation. He was also driven by nationalism.

    The irony is that, even as both tried to undo the division of Korea imposed by foreign powers, their positions as leaders owed to those very powers that installed them.

    The idea of ‘north korea’ invading ‘south korea’ OR ‘south korea’ invading ‘north korea’ was constructed by foreign powers that created those two artificial entities.

    Suppose foreign powers divide Israel into north and south. Suppose Israelis in the north try to unify with the south or those in the south tried to unify with the north. Is that ‘invasion’?

    The real invasion was USSR and US occupied Korea and created two artificial nations that set brother against brother. As the result, both the north regime and south regime were tainted. Neither was a genuine leader that sprung from the soil with people’s backing.

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  129. bluedog says:
    @Z-man
    It would be a quick event. A few command and control targets, the nuclear and missile sites and some intense bombing of the artillery threatening Seoul. The ROKAF would probably take part in the last target. By then I would think most of the regular Nork army would lay down their weapons.
    China would have gotten some assurances/concessions from the US beforehand, i.e., demilitarized zone, American withdrawal from the peninsula, which is what Trump wants. Win-win for China and US.

    Keep dreaming but sooner rather than later you will have to come back to reality do you really think China Russia or anyone else believes the bullshit this country puts out, ask Libya Iraq Russia how good our word is,as the man said our word ain’t worth a mouthful of warm spit and he was right..

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  130. bluedog says:
    @Pappy Hicks
    I am 84 years old. I fought in the Korean War, 1951-52 as a rifleman. For people who don't know who a rifleman is, well we do the killing, eyeball-to-eyeball. I am afraid of the politicians in D.C., no matter what we do. If those assholes had let us go on through Korea, all the way to China, the entire country would be ours and not an idiot Kim. But the American pols thought they were being good guys by letting the old Kim keep his part of Korea. Never trust a politician, not even our own.

    The written word about what could, or might happen, that this man wrote for us is right on. What he writes of what can or will happen, one or more of such will probably happen. It scares you, doesn't it?

    Hmm they did let you go all the way to China then drove you all the way back up to where you started from, and dead American littered the roads all the way back, if the assholes as you called them had stopped at the 38th as Ridgeway advocated then that would have been avoided, but the neo-cons and Free China Group would have it no other way…

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  131. @denk
    Apples and Orange...NOT !

    There are Albright bots in every murkkan dynasty since 1785.

    The current sec of offense, general 'mad dog' Mattis happens to built his 'reputation' on the wasting of Fallujah. [1]

    Now get this, Mattis and Trump both say previous wars were too 'restrained' , too many god damned rules on minimising civilians casualties. !

    'Its like fighting with one arm tied behind our back', they complain bitterly.

    Trump/Mattis,
    'Either we fight to win, collateral damages be damned, or we go home'.

    This is the new 'rules of engagement', or the lack of it thereoff.
    Its not surprising that Trump is chalking up an impressive score on 'collateral damages' barely two months into office.

    This gang might figure that wasting couple of millions Koreans/Chinks ala 1950, is 'worth it' for the prize of a neutered China.


    [1]
    I've posted gory details here before.

    It’s true that wars cannot be fought and won with one hand behind your back, with that being the primary reason why war should be an absolute last resort and avoided if at all possible. I can assure you that if the US ever goads Russia, China, N. Korea or Iran into a shooting war, American soldiers (or civilians as the case may be) will be shown no mercy. Which, in my humble opinion, would be one the best thing to ever happen to a pampered nation of ignorant people who (due to never having suffered the consequences of their actions) flippantly look upon war as mere fun and games.

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    • Agree: bluedog
    • Replies: @denk
    Through out history ,Chinese have been very magnanimous towards their enemies .

    The Manchus and Mongols committed genocides on the Hans during their invasions of the middle kingdom.
    There were no reprisals when the Hans turned the table, the vanquished invaders were allowed to go back to where they come from, or even assimilate into the community. !

    In the 1962 indo/sino war, Indian POW were given VIP treatment and sent back , together with their rifles, artillery cleaned and oiled . !

    Japanese committed heinous crimes against the Chinese in that 8 years brutal war.
    When Japan surrendered, thousands of Japanese war orphans were abandoned. Good hearted Chinese peasants adopted and raised these Jps in their own families .
    When these Jps grew up, many went back to Jp to seek their fathers, some opted to stay with their adopted parents cuz they were attached to them.

    Ironically, Jps and Indians are ardent followers of murkkan containment of China today.
  132. Z-man says:

    What happened to one or two of my brilliant comments, there was nothing worthy of removal in any of those blurbs.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Z-man
    I think the site has some technical flaws, because I found the comments but not under my summary of comments section, oh well.
  133. Z-man says:
    @Z-man
    What happened to one or two of my brilliant comments, there was nothing worthy of removal in any of those blurbs.

    I think the site has some technical flaws, because I found the comments but not under my summary of comments section, oh well.

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  134. The Scalpel says: • Website
    @Z-man
    I don't think China or the US will invade.
    The 'Grand Bargain', as I see it is that China will allow the US to lob some cruise missiles and smart bombs on selected targets and then let the South Koreans mop up. I'm almost 100% sure most of the Norks will quickly put down their arms at that point.
    Then hopefully the US will leave that friggin place.

    That will work about as well as it did in Iraq.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Z-man
    NK ain't Eye-raq.
    Again a grand bargain between us and the Chinese. We do the heavy lifting but hopefully we can then get the hell out of there and save billions. But as I've been reminded, the 'American Empire crowd' doesn't want to leave Korea, so we shall see if Trump can make his 'America 1st' policies happen.
  135. @anon
    It's really China's problem.

    And the only thing that has kept Japan and South Korea non nuclear is the US. A real threat would be for the US to simply to go home. When Trump was tweeting that exactly -- it was seen as quite threatening.

    A nuclear North Korea which is barely in the nuclear club and doesn't have the economy to militarize is simply an annoyance to China. Japan and South Korea could be real threats quite quickly. And there is no love lost between any of them.

    An irony is that the US has effectively disarmed Europe via NATO, and if the US told Germany to take care of themselves, Russia wouldn't feel threatened, they would be threatened.

    The truth is that the US hasn't won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.

    North Korea's only threat is nuclear, which is hollow, since they are assured of massive retaliation in kind. I suppose China has been OK with the situation, since it annoys us to no end and hasn't cost them much. So far.

    Excellent analysis. I’ll just opine that Japan and Korea would not credibly pose any serious threat to the survival, prosperity, and sovereignty of China even if Japan and Korea both had nukes.

    China has a much larger population and economy to bring to bear in a military conflict, and the gap in both economic resources is only getting bigger. China’s population advantage over Japan and Korea is not getting smaller, either, as the latter two decline in population.

    Imagine a Chinese naval and aerial blockade of Japan and Korea. Wouldn’t take long for them to submit to China’s demands or be starved out.

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  136. @Joe Franklin

    Why not allow that?

     

    Because a re-militarized Japan and a nuclear South Korea would cause China in particular to react, probably in a very bad way.

    China would likely challenge Japan before Japan could complete its re-militarization.

    China would also likely pre-emptively strike South Korea to prevent them from fielding a nuclear weapon.

    A re-militarized Japan would cause all Far-East Asian nations to react, probably with their own military buildup and more war fever tension overall in Asia.

    The US will likely get drawn into any conflict anyway, because US mutual interests with Japan and SK (trade, defense, respect and trust) would be at stake.

    The US considers Japan and South Korea to be allies regardless of any treaty, and will probably defend both nations if their survival is at stake.

    Your last sentence may be true, but I hope not. Let Japan and Korea fend for themselves; they are not friends on whom we could count in dire times, and they are not our people.

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  137. @daniel le mouche
    'Oriental Despotism, Magical Thinking …the Orient..Its Chinatown (from the movie). Feng Shue even in real estate sales here in Silicon Valley for the chinks.
    These people deserve one another but we Whites don’t deserve it. Or do we with our Race Equality delusions?'

    You should get out and see the world a bit, and watch less movies. And get off your hate horse.

    That would be “fewer” movies.

    I live in Los Angeles and can attest to the negative cultural effects of large-scale Chinese settlement in our region — other than the restaurants, of course, let’s keep those ;)

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  138. Z-man says:
    @The Scalpel
    That will work about as well as it did in Iraq.

    NK ain’t Eye-raq.
    Again a grand bargain between us and the Chinese. We do the heavy lifting but hopefully we can then get the hell out of there and save billions. But as I’ve been reminded, the ‘American Empire crowd’ doesn’t want to leave Korea, so we shall see if Trump can make his ‘America 1st’ policies happen.

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  139. Z-man says:
    @Joe Franklin

    Why not allow that?

     

    Because a re-militarized Japan and a nuclear South Korea would cause China in particular to react, probably in a very bad way.

    China would likely challenge Japan before Japan could complete its re-militarization.

    China would also likely pre-emptively strike South Korea to prevent them from fielding a nuclear weapon.

    A re-militarized Japan would cause all Far-East Asian nations to react, probably with their own military buildup and more war fever tension overall in Asia.

    The US will likely get drawn into any conflict anyway, because US mutual interests with Japan and SK (trade, defense, respect and trust) would be at stake.

    The US considers Japan and South Korea to be allies regardless of any treaty, and will probably defend both nations if their survival is at stake.

    Hey Joe Franklin, I met the real Joe Franklin several times.

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  140. basedKRN says: • Website
    @Corvinus
    "I’m no expert on Korea..."

    Exactly, you're no expert. Korea is not unified due to international meddling and internal strife. It has little to do with this alleged "flaw" in the Korean people, who are other than pompous or pretentious. Get a grip on reality.

    "BTW do you know any Jew movie people because I have a script which would make a great movie."

    I have a friend of mine who has a cousin who is an executive at Warner Brothers. No, not Jewish, a white guy. Besides, Castalia House is most appropriate for your work. Science fiction. Vox Day is really good at promoting his brand.

    Exactly, you’re no expert. Korea is not unified due to international meddling and internal strife. It has little to do with this alleged “flaw” in the Korean people, who are other than pompous or pretentious. Get a grip on reality.

    Thank you! We can be very pompous and pretentious though, hehehe.

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  141. denk says:
    @Carroll Price
    It's true that wars cannot be fought and won with one hand behind your back, with that being the primary reason why war should be an absolute last resort and avoided if at all possible. I can assure you that if the US ever goads Russia, China, N. Korea or Iran into a shooting war, American soldiers (or civilians as the case may be) will be shown no mercy. Which, in my humble opinion, would be one the best thing to ever happen to a pampered nation of ignorant people who (due to never having suffered the consequences of their actions) flippantly look upon war as mere fun and games.

    Through out history ,Chinese have been very magnanimous towards their enemies .

    The Manchus and Mongols committed genocides on the Hans during their invasions of the middle kingdom.
    There were no reprisals when the Hans turned the table, the vanquished invaders were allowed to go back to where they come from, or even assimilate into the community. !

    In the 1962 indo/sino war, Indian POW were given VIP treatment and sent back , together with their rifles, artillery cleaned and oiled . !

    Japanese committed heinous crimes against the Chinese in that 8 years brutal war.
    When Japan surrendered, thousands of Japanese war orphans were abandoned. Good hearted Chinese peasants adopted and raised these Jps in their own families .
    When these Jps grew up, many went back to Jp to seek their fathers, some opted to stay with their adopted parents cuz they were attached to them.

    Ironically, Jps and Indians are ardent followers of murkkan containment of China today.

    Read More
  142. Anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Z-man
    I'm no expert on Korea but the reason Korea isn't unified is because of China and a flaw in the Korean people which I can't nail down but is evident in the behavior of both communists and capitalists. I have dealt with a few Koreans here in the good ol' USA and they seem pompous, pretentious etc.
    Once we deal with Fat Boy we should get the hell out of there.

    China has relations with NK and SK. Russia also has relations with NK and SK.

    It is the US that still treats NK as the enemy and makes threats by calling it Axis of Evil after illegally invading Iraq.

    China does prop up NK but it is the US that drives NK into a tizzy.
    US also exerts pressure on SK not to improve relations with NK.
    If anything, the US coerces SK to do joint exercises preparing for invasion of the north.

    To this day, the US hasn’t admitted that it divided the nation and gave half to Stalin.
    But then, the US hasn’t admitted role in Nakba either.
    NK or divided Korea is the product of US foreign policy. And that fact has to be the starting point of discussion.

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  143. Maybe Trump is hoping that NK will nuke west coast cities in a preemptive strike.

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  144. But this would cause clouds of lethal radiation and radioactive dust…

    Not all fission and fusion explosions cause widespread effects. First, the creation and propagation of radioactive dust and debris, a.k.a. “fallout,” is a characteristic of a ground burst weapon, which is used only in a counterforce attack against underground missile emplacements. Second, there is no such thing as a “cloud of radiation.” Radioactive effects will travel only as far as radioactive matter travels, which in the case of an air burst weapon is roughly the radius of total destruction. (Cf. the inverse-square law.)

    That having been said, there’s no argument that fission and fusion weapons must be handled with care and used only in dire circumstances. However, the suggestion that the use of small nukes against North Korean forces would guarantee dire impacts on South Korea, China, and Japan is overblown. Indeed, that idea actually functions to protect tyrannies with nukes such as North Korea, which can exploit such popular fears to deter an attack.

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  145. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The aim is to NOT have a war.

    But North Korea is threatening a war for no reason whatsoever.
    NO ONE was going to invade North Korea.
    North Korea, backed by China, is to blame.

    Sign a peace treaty with North Korea? The same North Korea that has broken every nuclear agreement made with other countries? No thanks.

    If some small country threatens to nuke you, what should you do? Nothing?

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    • Replies: @Hill
    You'd be from the US, I can tell because you have no idea of history.

    Look at the aid packages promised (in return for demilitarisation) by Clinton, look at the history of the Korean war (the US controls the SK army as the war has not been declared over), Google MacArthur's comments after the hot war finished.

    BTW, look at the prevailing winds would show that North America is likely to be blanketed in fallout should the yanks nuke Korea, but you'd have to know some geography to know that .

    Shitting in your own nest would be a fitting end to the standoff.

    The rest of the world loves you, you enthusiastic, gullible yanks.
    Sorry, I forgot you are irony impaired too.
  146. bluedog says:

    Oh I think if we sit down with NK and negotiated in good faith that we could defuse it very quickly,Clinton negotiated with them and never kept his word on anything he promised,the problem is we don’t/won’t negotiated but demand and that seldom works with any nation,I suppose Russia and NATO comes to mind…

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  147. JGarbo says:
    @Anon
    "My visits to South and North Korea have shown me that soldiers of both nations are amazingly tough, patriotic and ready to fight."

    Funny patriotism where they're most revved up to kill other Koreans.

    A bunch of morons.

    Any more moronic than Americans killing Americans? The two Koreas were invented by imperialism and their populations condition over decades to fear each other. Simple manipulation of human nature.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Z-man
    True but they should be able to 'get over it!!'
    The Germans did it, why can't the Koreans do it? Ther's got to be a flaw in that Oriental mind.
  148. Hill says:
    @Anonymous
    The aim is to NOT have a war.

    But North Korea is threatening a war for no reason whatsoever.
    NO ONE was going to invade North Korea.
    North Korea, backed by China, is to blame.

    Sign a peace treaty with North Korea? The same North Korea that has broken every nuclear agreement made with other countries? No thanks.

    If some small country threatens to nuke you, what should you do? Nothing?

    You’d be from the US, I can tell because you have no idea of history.

    Look at the aid packages promised (in return for demilitarisation) by Clinton, look at the history of the Korean war (the US controls the SK army as the war has not been declared over), Google MacArthur’s comments after the hot war finished.

    BTW, look at the prevailing winds would show that North America is likely to be blanketed in fallout should the yanks nuke Korea, but you’d have to know some geography to know that .

    Shitting in your own nest would be a fitting end to the standoff.

    The rest of the world loves you, you enthusiastic, gullible yanks.
    Sorry, I forgot you are irony impaired too.

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  149. Z-man says:
    @JGarbo
    Any more moronic than Americans killing Americans? The two Koreas were invented by imperialism and their populations condition over decades to fear each other. Simple manipulation of human nature.

    True but they should be able to ‘get over it!!’
    The Germans did it, why can’t the Koreans do it? Ther’s got to be a flaw in that Oriental mind.

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  150. gork says:

    We are still at war with North Korea. We never signed aa armistice of any kind. I smell a rat.

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  151. Riiik says:

    WE have been holding a nuclear gun to North Koreas head since the Korean War!!  (remember MacArthur)??  

    Every year we, (along with Japan and South Korea), stage ‘war games’ in which we taunt — With nuclear weapons: With hundreds of fully armed jet fighters (and bombers): and With estimates of 350,000 ground troops. 

    Would we actually invade? In past years, we have pulled up — just short of ‘go-no-go’.

    But the North Koreans never know. 

    Year after year this dangerous game is played. Usually March to June. 

    The North Koreans must always be prepared for the possibility that their ‘evil enemy’ will this time come to get them.

    “They still remember that ‘evil enemy’ who gratuitously leveled their country 60 years ago murdering 25% of their countrymen. (mostly women, children and the aged).”

    Yes, intentionally killing defenseless civilians is murder.

    Stressing the North Koreans’ is a strategy.  ‘Defend yourself or capitulate’. 

    North Korean chooses to defend. 

    The Soviets capitulated. The North Koreans won’t. 

    They will go hungary if needed to protect themselves. 

    In my view, all that the North Koreans want – is to be left alone. 

    But-we-just-won’t-leave-them -alone. 

    Nothing – nothing – is as one sided or simple as your government (or the media) would lead you to believe.

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  152. […] US troop surge in Afghanistan to finally “win” the war after 16 years; and the potentially disastrous consequences if Trump’s bellicosity on North Korea ever turns into military […]

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  153. @Hill
    You'd be from the US, I can tell because you have no idea of history.

    Look at the aid packages promised (in return for demilitarisation) by Clinton, look at the history of the Korean war (the US controls the SK army as the war has not been declared over), Google MacArthur's comments after the hot war finished.

    BTW, look at the prevailing winds would show that North America is likely to be blanketed in fallout should the yanks nuke Korea, but you'd have to know some geography to know that .

    Shitting in your own nest would be a fitting end to the standoff.

    The rest of the world loves you, you enthusiastic, gullible yanks.
    Sorry, I forgot you are irony impaired too.

    my god, what an asshole. let me guess, british?

    Read More
  154. FredR35 says:

    You’re 72 and you just figured this out? You’re a little slow, huh? BTW…I only used words with 2 syllables for easy reading.

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  155. PABob says:

    Several comments refer to the enormous casualties in North Korea during the Korean War caused by American bombing. I’ve run across references to this before. Could someone recommend a good book on the war that discusses this in detail? Thanks.

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  156. Eagle Eye says:

    The US could literally blow North Korea off the map using tactical nuclear weapons …

    You mean “strategic nuclear weapons.”

    Tactical nuclear weapons are used for discrete “tactical” targets during battles, not for large-scale annihilation.

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  157. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @anon
    It's really China's problem.

    And the only thing that has kept Japan and South Korea non nuclear is the US. A real threat would be for the US to simply to go home. When Trump was tweeting that exactly -- it was seen as quite threatening.

    A nuclear North Korea which is barely in the nuclear club and doesn't have the economy to militarize is simply an annoyance to China. Japan and South Korea could be real threats quite quickly. And there is no love lost between any of them.

    An irony is that the US has effectively disarmed Europe via NATO, and if the US told Germany to take care of themselves, Russia wouldn't feel threatened, they would be threatened.

    The truth is that the US hasn't won a war since we decided to constrain our military in Korea. They wanted to nuke China, and also wanted to use them in Vietnam.

    North Korea's only threat is nuclear, which is hollow, since they are assured of massive retaliation in kind. I suppose China has been OK with the situation, since it annoys us to no end and hasn't cost them much. So far.

    Better to have Japan and S. Korea armed with nukes than not.

    They are both responsible actors, and this puts the all decisions and all the ramifications in their hands, where it belongs.

    There are no simple answers, and the people most affected are in Asia, so they need to work this out for themselves. This would have the effect of taking the US off Korea’s hate/hit list, since they are no longer the central player in N. Korea’s eyes.

    Trump should wind down these treaties and the US role in Asia — there is time to do this now in an orderly, responsible way… giving the Koreans and Japanese ample notice. The idea that the US can be the big dog in Asia forever is madness. With the sheer size and population of that region and it’s fast growing economic power, it should be pretty obvious to the sane that the USA simply can’t go on as in the past.

    My fear is a neocon Hail Mary war that seeks to strike at China/N.Korea while The US is still semi-capable. They seem that power hungry, and they see the US power as their own, so they may try anything. If it fails, they bugger off to Israel and wash their hands of the whole thing.

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