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Remembering the U.S.S. Liberty
The power of the Israel Lobby
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Last Wednesday at noon at Arlington National Cemetery I attended the annual commemorative gathering of the survivors and friends of the U.S.S. Liberty. The moving service included the ringing of a ship’s bell for each one of the thirty-four American sailors, Marines and civilians that were killed in the deliberate Israeli attack that sought to sink the intelligence gathering ship and kill all its crew. Present were a number of surviving crewmembers as well as veterans like myself and other Americans who are committed to ensuring that the story of the Liberty will not die in hopes that someday the United States government will have the courage to acknowledge what actually happened on that fateful day.

It was the forty-ninth anniversary of the attack. In truth the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, has almost faded from memory, with a younger generation completely unaware that a United States naval vessel was once deliberately attacked and nearly sunk by America’s “greatest friend and ally” Israel. The attack was followed by a cover-up that demonstrated clearly that at least one president of the United States even back nearly fifty years ago valued his relationship with the state of Israel above his loyalty to his own country.

It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a U.S. Naval vessel in peace time. In addition to the death toll, 171 more of the crew were wounded in the two-hour assault, which was clearly intended to destroy the intelligence gathering vessel operating in international waters collecting information on the ongoing Six Day War between Israel and its Arab neighbors. The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with gunboats from the sea.

The incredible courage and determination of the surviving crew was the only thing that kept the Liberty from sinking. The ship’s commanding officer Captain William McGonagle was awarded a Congressional Medal of Honor for his heroic role in keeping the ship afloat, though President Lyndon Baines Johnson broke with tradition and refused to hold the medal ceremony in the White House, also declining to award it personally, delegating that task to the Secretary of the Navy in a closed to the public presentation made at the Washington Navy Yard. The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement with hostile forces in the history of the United States Navy.

The cover-up of the attack began immediately. The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident, as were the Naval dockyard workers in Malta and even the men of the U.S.S. Davis, which had assisted the badly damaged Liberty to port. A hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry headed by Admiral John McCain acted under orders from Washington to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. The inquiry’s senior legal counsel Captain Ward Boston, who subsequently declared the attack to be a “deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew,” also described how “President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised. Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence. Most of the documents relating to the Liberty incident have never been released to the public in spite of the 49 years that have passed since the attack took place.

The faux court of inquiry and the medals awarded in secret were only the first steps in the cover-up, which has persisted to this day, orchestrated by politicians and a media that seem to place Israel’s interests ahead of those of the United States. Liberty survivors have been finding it difficult even to make their case in public. In early April a billboard that read “Help the USS Liberty Survivors – Attacked by Israel” was taken down in New Bedford Massachusetts. The billboard had been placed by the Honor Liberty Vets Organization and, as is normal practice, was paid for through a contractual arrangement that would require the billboard company to post the image for a fixed length of time. It was one of a number of billboards placed in different states. Inevitably, Israel’s well connected friends began to complain. One Jewish businessman threatened to take his business elsewhere, so the advertising company obligingly removed the billboard two weeks early.

After forty-nine years, the dwindling number of survivors of the Liberty are not looking for punishment or revenge. When asked, they will tell you that they only ask for accountability, that an impartial inquiry into the attack be convened and that the true story of what took place finally be revealed to the public.

That Congress is deaf to the pleas of the Liberty crew should surprise no one as the nation’s legislative body has been for years, as Pat Buchanan once put it, “Israeli occupied territory.” The Lobby’s ability to force Congress and even the presidency to submit to its will has been spelled out in some detail by critics, first by Paul Findley in They Dare to Speak Out, later by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt in The Israel Lobby, in Alison Weir’s Against Our Better Judgment, and most recently in Kirk Beattie’s excellent Congress and the Shaping of the Middle East.

Congressional willingness to protect Israel even when it is killing Americans is remarkable, but it is symptom of the legislative body’s willingness to go to bat for Israel reflexively, even when it is damaging to U.S. interests and to the rights that American citizens are supposed to enjoy. I note particularly legislation currently working its way through Congress that will make it illegal for any federal funding to go to any entity that supports the Boycott, Divest and Sanction movement, better known as BDS. BDS is a way to put pressure on the Israeli government over its human rights abuses that is both non-violent and potentially effective. As the federal government has its hooks all over the economy and at various levels in education as well as state and local government its threat to force the delegitimization of BDS is far from an empty one.

Existing laws in more than twenty states with more on the way, including most recently New York, punishing entities that support the peaceful BDS movement by labeling BDS as anti-Semitic and making it illegal or sanctionable to support it are direct attacks on free speech. New York Governor Andrew Cuomo stated “We want Israel to know we are on its side.” And it doesn’t stop with BDS. Recently signed trade agreements with Europe were drafted to be conditional on European acceptance of Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian West Bank while Israel is also pushing to censor the internet to make material that constitutes “incitement” banned. Incitement would, of course, include anything critical of Israel or its government on the grounds that it is anti-Semitic.

Democratic candidate presumptive Hillary Clinton has explicitly promised to do all in her power to oppose BDS, telling an adoring American Israel Public Affairs Committee audience in March that “Many of the young people here today are on the front lines of the battle to oppose the alarming boycott, divestment and sanctions movement known as BDS. Particularly at a time when anti-Semitism is on the rise across the world, especially in Europe, we must repudiate all efforts to malign, isolate and undermine Israel and the Jewish people. I’ve been sounding the alarm for a while now. As I wrote last year in a letter to the heads of major American Jewish organizations, we have to be united in fighting back against BDS.”

So the treatment of the U.S.S. Liberty should surprise no one in a country whose governing class has been for decades doing the bidding of the powerful lobby of a tiny client state that has been nothing but trouble and expense for the United States of America. Will it ever end? As the Israel Lobby currently controls the relevant parts of the federal government and much of the media change is not likely to happen overnight, but there are some positive signs. If the Democratic Party platform committee under the influence of Bernie Sanders is successful in toning down the usual extravagant praise of Israel – against the wishes of Hillary, one might add – that would be a sign that change is difficult but not necessarily impossible. If Donald Trump wins and holds to his promise to be neutral between Israel and Palestine in negotiations that too would be a marked shift in perception of the conflict. And if the American people finally wake up and realize that they are tired of the entire farce and decide to wash their hands of the Middle East that would change everything. Just imagine picking up the morning newspaper and not reading a front page story about the warnings and threats coming from that great world leader Benjamin Netanyahu. That would be quite remarkable.

 
• Category: Foreign Policy, History • Tags: BDS Movement, USS Liberty 
Of Related Interest
Rescue efforts the day after the USS liberty was attacked by Israeli forces.
The American Legion finally calls for a congressional inquiry
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The 50 year cover-up of a mass murder of U.S. servicemen orchestrated by Israel and its friends
Liberty Commemoration 2015
Forty-eight years is too long to wait for justice
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  1. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Once again Phil you’ve proven that you don’t have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US’s adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Remembering such an event on its anniversary seems quite fitting.

    I see that you have a grand total of one post on this, at least with your silly and insulting user name.

    One may suspect that you were directed here by the Internet Megaphone, or whatever is used for the same purpose now.

    Mr. Giraldi's articles are appreciated by many, he makes many valid points.

    Your post is just a witless attempt at personal invective.
    , @Jacques Sheete
    "Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago."

    So how does that explain the 24/7 indoctrination regarding "The" holocaust that none of us are supposed to ever forget? How long ago was that supposed to have occured?
    , @AmericaFirstNow
    ISIS trains 600 terrorists to attack Europe (and US) because of Israel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48_ZeiK5gqU
    , @ISmellBagels
    It is you yids and your whining and stale lies who are the broken record, Moishe.
    , @annamaria
    "Nothing to say about the US’s adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?"

    Thank you for the perfect demonstration of hasbara technique.
    Here is the crux of the matter of this article that alarmed you so much, "That Congress is deaf to the pleas of the Liberty crew should surprise no one as the nation’s legislative body has been for years, as Pat Buchanan once put it, “Israeli occupied territory.”
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Hasbara troll. The Israeli's must be paying by the word now.

    And the new Israeli argument seems to be, "This happened so long ago; let's just forget about it," I'll make a deal with you: I'll forget about the Liberty when I never hear another peep from any Jew about the Holocaust.
    , @biz
    Exactly. The day after yet another Jihadist massacre and the largest mass shooting in American history is a strange day to focus on an event from 50 years ago.

    It is the same thing that the liberals are trying to do at Daily Kos and Salon - change the conversation. In their case they are trying to fixate on Timothy McVeigh and abortion clinic bombings to distract from the Islamist atrocity. At least they are 20 years out of date - Giraldi is 2.5 times as out of date as they are.
    , @Sherman
    You are 100% correct.

    Geraldi is a Holocaust denier who makes his living peddling hatred and conspiracy theories.

    At no point in his article does he mention a motive as to why Israel attacked the USS Liberty. At no point does he mention that Israeli pilots and ground control were stressed and exhausted from fighting a ferocious war. At no point does he mention that the USS Liberty was - by all accounts - in dangerous waters or that Israel warned foreign ships to stay out of this zone.

    Giraldi only cares about the victims of this tragedy only so far as he can exploit them to further his hate-filled agenda.
    , @gwynedd1
    Its not like anyone else is milking the past for political gain now are they?
    , @White Nationalist
    Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.

    __

    You are really dumb, sir. America is German occupied territory? OUR BOYS were killed in WWII because America was drawn into that war for the greater glory of Israel.

    Understand that today Israel is utterly dependent on the United States for money, arms and diplomatic support. One or two states share common enemies with Israel; a handful of countries buy its weapons; a few others are its de facto accomplices in ignoring international treaties and secretly manufacturing nuclear weapons. But outside Washington, Israel has no friends -- at the United Nations it cannot even count on the support of America's staunchest allies. Despite the political and diplomatic incompetence of the PLO [Palestine Liberation Organization]... ; despite the manifest shortcomings of the Arab world at large... ; despite Israel's own sophisticated efforts to publicize its case, the Jewish state today is widely regarded as a -- the -- leading threat to world peace.

    What is emerging is a new bi-polar world, with the United States and Israel on one side, and the rest of the world on the other. This new alignment of forces, this shift in power relationships in the world, is strikingly reflected in the United Nations, where, time and time again, votes on issues in both the General Assembly and the Security Council pit the United States and Israel on one side, and virtually the entire rest of the world on the other.

    So go ahead, keep on with your backwards thinking... "german occupied territory" ...such a fool.
    , @DaveE
    ".....most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil."

    Maybe that's true in YOUR world. But here in the real world, it's all over but the shooting (and shouting) for the Israelites and it ain't Mr. Giraldi who's the loser.
    , @Clyde
    but of course
    , @Hillchief
    The main problem with Americans is you do not give a shit about stuff that happened 50 years ago.
    This is why you support the Taliban in the 80's and lost the towers in the 2000's. You did regime change in the 50's in Iran, you got the revolution in 79.

    So grow up and never criticize anyone bringing up your past errors, as it shows you have no concept of "Blow Back".
    , @uslabor
    Then shutup about the holocaust already.
    , @chris
    My dear, "broken record" (BTW we know you're one of the regular commentator trolls to this site) this story is far from over until the facts are exposed and the guilty are punished.

    The reason we need to look into this, as described by "alexander" (comment 147), is to determine their methods and to expose the sheer gall which they shamelessly make use of, hiding under the accusation of "antisemitism" when they get caught.

    The Israeli premier during the 67 war, Eshkol had already worked to whitewash the Lavon Affair; the false-flag operation whose victims were to be British and Americans ! Whatever the real goals of the Liberty attack were, the false-flag aspect seems to have been then and seems to continue to be now, standard procedure for the Israeli government.

    Scott Horton says that the reason Reagan pulled all US troops out of Lebanon after the 246 marines were killed is because the US came to suspect that the Israelis had known the attack was going to take place but never passed the warning on to us. When then the story of the Israeli "art students," shadowing the 911 hijackers, came out, a certain pattern beings to begins to emerge.

    What do you think would have happened if the US had destroyed an Israeli spy ship in an incident like the one which was done to the Liberty? Would they have really glossed over the facts of the matter ? Would everyone from the president on down (but especially the US tax payer) have been let of the hook ?

    What an apt metaphor this is, that they tried to destroy "Liberty" but that it survived in spite of the odds. And just like the ship itself, the story has not died and it's slowly making a miraculous recovery !
    , @Blake
    I guess your world is a world where only weepies about the so called Holocaust or fake history yarns like Ben Hur revolves around.

    If people did not care about Phil why are you here in the first place? Clearly you are envious.
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  2. Sanders is Jewish and Trump’s got Jewish in-laws. That should tell us that not all influential Jewish folk in America, particularly, are onboard with the wealthy donorist Likudnik class that strongarms policy with money. Nor are all those in Israel who are Jewish universally for the destructive policies under Netanyahu and his far-right coalition allies.

    Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    It is amazing how effectively Israel gives, but her own actions, the rationalization to all the wrongs that were done towards Jews in those countries where Jews decided to reside during last two millennia.
    , @Orville H. Larson
    "Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation."

    Of course. The documents reveal the foundation of lies, perfidy, and degeneracy on which the Zionist entity is based.
    , @AmericaFirstNow
    Bernie Sanders still referred to the Mearsheimer/Walt 'The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy' book as 'conspiracy theory (more than likely because he is a Jew too) and Trump took 100 million from Sheldon Adelson and wants to kill the Iran Deal for Israel as well! So don't get your hopes up about Trump being much different!
    , @Fran Macadam
    Not that we're not as capable and culpable. I read that some of the Clinton email server evidence is to be suppressed for 75 years. Someone who doesn't want to be tried before they're ninety? :-)
    , @Anonymous
    Once again, we are played for patsies.

    Ever since I could vote, I've had to choose
    between the "LESSER OF TWO WEASELS)!

    That way, the conclave of self-interest that runs this country stays in power, while playing to the competitive drive in a country seemingly unable to be able to count higher than two.

    It's our patriotic duty to criticize any other country, including Israel, that steps over the line, and, to also criticize anyone in this country who won't step up to insist that other governments be held accountable.

    Shut the hell up, both Billary and Frump!
    You may get elected, but you are both only involved in your self-interest as your primary motivation. It's beyond nauseating.
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  3. Tom Welsh says:

    ‘“President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised’.

    And how was this was different from the Soviet political and judicial system? This single case provides clear and sufficient proof that there was no impartial justice in the USA in the 1960s, since when matters have got steadily worse.

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    • Replies: @annamaria
    Agree
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  4. Tom Welsh says:

    ” Inevitably, Israel’s well connected friends began to complain”.

    I would like to have heard how, exactly, they worded their complaints. “We insist that you stop publicizing the murderous terrorism of the Israeli government and the US government’s complicity with it”?

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    • Replies: @El Dato
    Either "No more money for your elections" or "I have a tape here of your latest private conversations ... shame if it should get into the hands of the press"

    Like with what really went dowm with the Sabra and Shatila massacre, this is a story that needs to be told and retold. Isreal is not founded on enlightened leaders playing violin at sunset.
    , @anon
    Money talks sport.
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  5. Rehmat says:

    Dear Giraldi, I think the Americans as good Christian smartens should forgive the incident as another ‘Christian blood sacrifice’ as the American Jewish Lobby admitted Israeli crimes in 2013.

    Leaders of several major American Jewish organizations met Barack Obama and members of his national security team on January 23, 2013 offering abject apologies for the Israeli covert attack on USS Liberty. According to Karl Reich, BNN senior producer, the Jewish groups included ADL, AIPAC and the Conference of Major American Jewish Organizations. However, the Israeli ambassador in Washington could not attend the meeting due to sickness.

    It took American Jewish leaders 46 year to admit that Israel did intentionally attack electronic intelligence-gathering ship, USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, which resulted the death of 34 young Americans and wounding another 171. The Zionist regime blamed Egypt for the attack. The Israeli-poodle president Lyndon Johnson (his mother Rebekah Baines had Jewish family roots) covered Israeli foot-prints under the influence of his advisor, Mathilde Krim, a former operative of Jewish terrorist group Irgun. Her husband Arthur Krim, then chaired the finance committee for the Democratic National Committee.

    Both Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Dean Rusk, secretary of state refuted Israeli story (“a tragic incident”) and called the incident a deliberate Israeli attack to suck American forces on Israeli side against Arabs.

    Lt. Com. James Ennes was one of the survivors on USS Liberty. His story can be read here. James was hounded by the Jewish Lobby groups for years. They called him “antisemite”, “Nazi bastard” and “drop dead”.

    Alan Hart, veteran British war correspondent and author who covered the war from Sinai – has claimed that Israel was not attacked by Arab armies but it was deliberate attack by Israeli defense minister Gen. Moshe Dayan to destroy Egypt’s Soviet supplied military equipment – planes, missiles, artillery, tanks, the lot. Both Zionist prime minister Eshkol and Dayan took the military adventure as result of US president Lyndon Johnson’s “conditional green light”. The invasion and occupation of Jordanian and Syrian territories were not part of President’s green light.

    https://rehmat1.com/2013/01/27/jewish-groups-apologize-for-israeli-attack-on-uss-liberty/

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    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Rehmat,

    The correct forms of address are 'Dear Phil', 'Dear Phillip', or 'Dear Mr. Giraldi'.

    ... or as I do here, just the first name.

    Still, as is sometimes the case, your post has much that is relevant this time.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    That's sensationally interesting if true - and renders much of the discussion on this thread idle ignorance. But what are your sources for the admission and apology to President Obama?
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  6. Lot says:

    The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement

    That’s quite a cover-up method, giving out a bunch of medals!

    The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident

    Really? Did they break their oaths then talking to you about it? Have they been penalized for breaking their “vow of secrecy?” Seems they haven’t given all those medals they were awarded.

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with gunboats from the sea.

    How is it remotely plausible that Egypt would intentionally attack an American ship? Why would Egypt ever, in the midst of a war it was losing against Israel, provoke a war with the USA?

    The USS Liberty was friendly fire in the fog of war, and quite a war it was for Israel, fighting enemies with many times its population on multiple land and sea fronts.

    I suggest having a perusal of this article:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friendly_fire_incidents

    Note that it is extremely LONG.

    From that same broad era:

    3 July 1950 – Eight p-51s of No. 77 Squadron RAAF strafed and destroyed a train carrying thousands of American and South Korean soldiers who were mistaken for a North Korean convoy in the main highway between Suwon and P’yongtaek, resulting more than 700 casualties.

    Cyprus Emergency
    December 12, 1955: On the Troodos mountains near the village of Spilia during the Battle of Spilia, British units from the north and ones from the south, unable to see the fog and in the belief that they were surrounded by EOKA fighters, engaged each other in an eight-hour firefight involving airstrikes, artillery bombardments, and heavy weapons. This firefight caused 250 casualties, including 127 deaths, 102 injuries, and 21 missing, making it the deadliest friendly fire incident of the war.

    On October 15, 1958, 23 British soldiers of 1st Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles, were killed and 35 others injured while walking near the Kyrenia Mountains when two British machine gunners mistook them for EOKA fighters and opened fire on them for at least 15 minutes. Some British soldiers yelled multiple times at the machine gunners that they were friendlies and the group they belonged to, but the gunners kept on firing.

    Vietnam War
    It has been estimated that there may have been as many as 8,000 friendly fire incidents in the Vietnam War

    19 November 1967, a U.S. Marine Corps. F4 Phantom aircraft dropped a 500 lb (230 kg) bomb on the command post of the 2nd Battalion (Airborne) 503d Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade while they were in heavy contact with a numerically superior NVA force. At least 45 paratroopers were killed and another 45 wounded.

    1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus

    The Turkish destroyer D-354 Kocatepe was sunk by Turkish warplanes after being mistaken for an enemy ship.

    A flight of Greek Nord Noratlas aircraft transports carrying reinforcements from Greece was mistaken for a flight of Turkish aircraft by the defenders of Nicosia International Airport, who opened fire. Heavy Greek casualties were sustained.

    1982 Falklands War

    A Dassault Mirage III was shot down by Argentine Anti-Aircraft and small arms fire at Port Stanley while an A-4 Skyhawk was downed by a 35 mm antiaircraft battery near Goose Green. Both aircraft belonged to the Argentine Air Force.

    Companies A and C of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment, British Army engaged each other in an hour-long firefight in the Falkland Islands involving heavy weapons and artillery strikes, resulting in eight casualties, including five deaths and three injuries.

    1991 Gulf War

    During the Battle of Khafji, 11 American Marines were killed in two major incidents when their light armored vehicles (LAV’s) were hit by missiles fired by a USAF A-10.

    Two soldiers of the U.S. Army were killed and a further six wounded when an American Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopter fired upon and destroyed a U.S. Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle and an M113 Armoured Personnel Carrier (in the same incident) during night operations.

    An American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacked British Warrior MICVs, resulting in nine British dead and numerous casualties.

    In the 1994 Black Hawk shootdown incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15Cs involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters over northern Iraq, killing 26 Coalition military and civilian personnel.

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    • Agree: Jeff77450
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    What an excruciatingly long post in the worst of bad faith, entirely drawn from one irrelevant Wiki entry.

    If it had in fact been

    friendly fire in the fog of war
     
    as you ludicrously claim, the markings on the planes would not have been covered.

    If I recall the accounts correctly, the Liberty was flying the U.S. flag.

    I don't recall whether the Israeli gunboats were said to be showing their flags in the accounts, I would guess not.

    So your long post is total diversionary bullshit.
    , @Chris Mallory
    Recordings of both the pilots and ground control discussing that the Liberty was an American ship have been released. That sinks your "friendly fire" theory like the terrorists of Tel Aviv were attempting to sink the Liberty.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Another Hasbara troll. This probably comes direct from some anal cavity in Tel Aviv.
    , @anon
    <>

    People seem to forget that the 1967 war was started by Israel. The fact that Israel won so easily speaks volumes on the power disparity between Israel and its "enemies".

    This was actually not the first attempt by Israel to worsen US-Egyptian relations. A previous effort was the Lavon Affair of 1954, in which spies from Israel planted bombs targeting US owned properties in Egypt.
    , @Ace
    What garbage. So the Israelis, while involved in a major war, confused the Liberty with an Egyptian horse transport.

    When a small nation is at war on many fronts, one of its top priorities would be to deny one of its enemies horse transportation! Unfortunately for the men of the Liberty, after Israeli reconnaisance aircraft closely examined the Liberty on that clear morning with the U.S. ensign prominently displayed, the Israelis, so help me God, confused a U.S. warship with an Egyptian horse transport and attacked it.

    Friendly fire. No doubt about it.
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  7. geokat62 says:

    And if the American people finally wake up and realize that they are tired of the entire farce and decide to wash their hands of the Middle East that would change everything.

    I recently made this comment on another thread. I believe it merits reposting here… adieu:

    This will be my final comment on Unz. I enjoyed debating with several of the commenters who frequent this site… and I wish them nothing but the best.

    Regards,

    geokat62

    A test to determine how well informed US citizens are about ME politics (I suspect the overwhelming majority would struggle to achieve a passing grade):

    1. Which couple is considered to have a “special relationship”?

    a) Mickey and Minnie Mouse
    b) Kim Kardashian and Kanye West
    c) Batman and Robin
    d) Israel and the US

    2. Who pushed hard to get the US to invade Iraq?

    a) The Russians
    b) The Israelis
    c) The Chinese
    d) The Italians

    3. What does AIPAC stand for?

    a) American Israel Public Affairs Committee
    b) Americans Into Power and Corruption
    c) American Indians for Peace and Cooperation
    d) African Irish Partnership and Collaboration

    4. Who owns the NY Times?

    a) Carlos Slim
    b) Howard Hughes
    c) Donald Trump
    d) Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.

    5. What is the number of UN resolutions the US has vetoed on Israel’s behalf?

    a) 1
    b) 7
    c) 39
    d) 53

    6. What is the number of Muslim countries the US has bombed or occupied since 1980?

    a) 3
    b) 14
    c) 6
    d) 21

    7. What is the amount of treasure the US has paid as tribute to Israel since 1949?

    a) $120 B
    b) $5 B
    c) $18 B
    d) $63 B

    8. Who is Victoria Nuland married to?

    a) Barack Obama
    b) Jack the Ripper
    c) Barbara Streisand
    d) Robert Kagan

    9. Who are the co-founders of PNAC?

    a) Barnum and Bailey
    b) Abbott and Costello
    c) Kristol and Kagan
    d) Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

    10. How do Israelis commonly refer to the US Congress?

    a) Knesset West
    b) The Legislative Branch
    c) The Chamber of Solons
    d) The Hill

    Read More
    • Agree: Che Guava
    • Replies: @iffen
    "Shane! Come back!"
    , @Sam Shama
    Your comments and contributions are going to be missed. Hopefully, you will change your mind.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    YourQ 6. Let's see, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria, Kuwait... do you count Bosnia and Saudi Arabia? S the answer is presumably 14 but which are they?
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  8. Che Guava says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    Remembering such an event on its anniversary seems quite fitting.

    I see that you have a grand total of one post on this, at least with your silly and insulting user name.

    One may suspect that you were directed here by the Internet Megaphone, or whatever is used for the same purpose now.

    Mr. Giraldi’s articles are appreciated by many, he makes many valid points.

    Your post is just a witless attempt at personal invective.

    Read More
    • Replies: @ISmellBagels
    It's just Moishe and his "our boys" bullshit, pretending to be a lover of America. They reveal themselves every time.
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  9. @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    “Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.”

    So how does that explain the 24/7 indoctrination regarding “The” holocaust that none of us are supposed to ever forget? How long ago was that supposed to have occured?

    Read More
    • Agree: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Neverforget
    Indeed, Philip and his tribe managed to abscond with the entirety of WWII.

    I recently had a conversation with a lady who was working for the Memory Project (Canadian initiative to catalog veterans stories) - she was lobbing me to contribute more money to the project. I responded that I felt nothing had been learned from these wars and my fathers contribution (WWII Sailor) was being dishonored by the slavish devotion to veterans without any understanding of war and it's consequences. She replied,

    "We went to war to save the Jews"
     
    I told her that Canada, at that time in history was indifferent to Jewish suffering. (In fact we sent Jewish refugees back to Europe in 1939.)

    Of the 80 to 90 million deaths (as a result of the second world war) only the jewish lives matter. Now that is the power of the Jewish Lobby, the theft of history.
    , @Ace
    Touche!
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  10. @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    ISIS trains 600 terrorists to attack Europe (and US) because of Israel:

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Hatred of Israel as San Bernardino terrorism motivation downplayed by Israel 1st US media:

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/12/reported-politely-ignores/

    CIA's Mike Scheuer on terrorism motivation also ignored by Israel 1st US media:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ncn5Q16N4&list=PL3C32560738EF3C30&feature=plpp

    Even Petraeus & CENTCOM warned of Israel threat to US troops:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/07/general-petraeus-israel-emails
    , @David Evans
    Zionist-owned Congress' wars for Israel's balkanizing Oded Yinon Plan get us attacked in RETALIATION. To end the wars and terrorist attacks on the west heed the words of ex-CIA bin Laden Unit Chief Michael Scheuer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ

    This is the plan, complemented by the Jewish neocon's A Clean Break Plan (google it) that is bankrupting the US on multi-trillion-dollar wars while US cities and infrastructure rot.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815
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  11. @AmericaFirstNow
    ISIS trains 600 terrorists to attack Europe (and US) because of Israel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48_ZeiK5gqU

    Hatred of Israel as San Bernardino terrorism motivation downplayed by Israel 1st US media:

    http://mondoweiss.net/2015/12/reported-politely-ignores/

    CIA’s Mike Scheuer on terrorism motivation also ignored by Israel 1st US media:

    Even Petraeus & CENTCOM warned of Israel threat to US troops:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2010/07/general-petraeus-israel-emails

    Read More
    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
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  12. Traitor John McCain confronted about USS Liberty cover-up & Media Accomplices:

    Cindy McCain also OK with USS Liberty cover-up:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2011/10/04/cindy-mccain-on-the-uss-liberty-coverup-i-dont-care-about-this-issue/

    Read More
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  13. El Dato says:
    @Tom Welsh
    " Inevitably, Israel’s well connected friends began to complain".

    I would like to have heard how, exactly, they worded their complaints. "We insist that you stop publicizing the murderous terrorism of the Israeli government and the US government's complicity with it"?

    Either “No more money for your elections” or “I have a tape here of your latest private conversations … shame if it should get into the hands of the press”

    Like with what really went dowm with the Sabra and Shatila massacre, this is a story that needs to be told and retold. Isreal is not founded on enlightened leaders playing violin at sunset.

    Read More
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  14. Che Guava says:
    @Lot

    The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement
     
    That's quite a cover-up method, giving out a bunch of medals!

    The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident
     
    Really? Did they break their oaths then talking to you about it? Have they been penalized for breaking their "vow of secrecy?" Seems they haven't given all those medals they were awarded.

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with gunboats from the sea.
     
    How is it remotely plausible that Egypt would intentionally attack an American ship? Why would Egypt ever, in the midst of a war it was losing against Israel, provoke a war with the USA?

    The USS Liberty was friendly fire in the fog of war, and quite a war it was for Israel, fighting enemies with many times its population on multiple land and sea fronts.

    I suggest having a perusal of this article:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friendly_fire_incidents

    Note that it is extremely LONG.

    From that same broad era:

    3 July 1950 - Eight p-51s of No. 77 Squadron RAAF strafed and destroyed a train carrying thousands of American and South Korean soldiers who were mistaken for a North Korean convoy in the main highway between Suwon and P'yongtaek, resulting more than 700 casualties.

    Cyprus Emergency
    December 12, 1955: On the Troodos mountains near the village of Spilia during the Battle of Spilia, British units from the north and ones from the south, unable to see the fog and in the belief that they were surrounded by EOKA fighters, engaged each other in an eight-hour firefight involving airstrikes, artillery bombardments, and heavy weapons. This firefight caused 250 casualties, including 127 deaths, 102 injuries, and 21 missing, making it the deadliest friendly fire incident of the war.

    On October 15, 1958, 23 British soldiers of 1st Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles, were killed and 35 others injured while walking near the Kyrenia Mountains when two British machine gunners mistook them for EOKA fighters and opened fire on them for at least 15 minutes. Some British soldiers yelled multiple times at the machine gunners that they were friendlies and the group they belonged to, but the gunners kept on firing.


    Vietnam War
    It has been estimated that there may have been as many as 8,000 friendly fire incidents in the Vietnam War

    19 November 1967, a U.S. Marine Corps. F4 Phantom aircraft dropped a 500 lb (230 kg) bomb on the command post of the 2nd Battalion (Airborne) 503d Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade while they were in heavy contact with a numerically superior NVA force. At least 45 paratroopers were killed and another 45 wounded.

    1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus

    The Turkish destroyer D-354 Kocatepe was sunk by Turkish warplanes after being mistaken for an enemy ship.

    A flight of Greek Nord Noratlas aircraft transports carrying reinforcements from Greece was mistaken for a flight of Turkish aircraft by the defenders of Nicosia International Airport, who opened fire. Heavy Greek casualties were sustained.

    1982 Falklands War

    A Dassault Mirage III was shot down by Argentine Anti-Aircraft and small arms fire at Port Stanley while an A-4 Skyhawk was downed by a 35 mm antiaircraft battery near Goose Green. Both aircraft belonged to the Argentine Air Force.

    Companies A and C of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment, British Army engaged each other in an hour-long firefight in the Falkland Islands involving heavy weapons and artillery strikes, resulting in eight casualties, including five deaths and three injuries.

    1991 Gulf War

    During the Battle of Khafji, 11 American Marines were killed in two major incidents when their light armored vehicles (LAV's) were hit by missiles fired by a USAF A-10.

    Two soldiers of the U.S. Army were killed and a further six wounded when an American Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopter fired upon and destroyed a U.S. Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle and an M113 Armoured Personnel Carrier (in the same incident) during night operations.

    An American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacked British Warrior MICVs, resulting in nine British dead and numerous casualties.

    In the 1994 Black Hawk shootdown incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15Cs involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters over northern Iraq, killing 26 Coalition military and civilian personnel.

    What an excruciatingly long post in the worst of bad faith, entirely drawn from one irrelevant Wiki entry.

    If it had in fact been

    friendly fire in the fog of war

    as you ludicrously claim, the markings on the planes would not have been covered.

    If I recall the accounts correctly, the Liberty was flying the U.S. flag.

    I don’t recall whether the Israeli gunboats were said to be showing their flags in the accounts, I would guess not.

    So your long post is total diversionary bullshit.

    Read More
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  15. Che Guava says:
    @Rehmat
    Dear Giraldi, I think the Americans as good Christian smartens should forgive the incident as another 'Christian blood sacrifice' as the American Jewish Lobby admitted Israeli crimes in 2013.

    Leaders of several major American Jewish organizations met Barack Obama and members of his national security team on January 23, 2013 offering abject apologies for the Israeli covert attack on USS Liberty. According to Karl Reich, BNN senior producer, the Jewish groups included ADL, AIPAC and the Conference of Major American Jewish Organizations. However, the Israeli ambassador in Washington could not attend the meeting due to sickness.

    It took American Jewish leaders 46 year to admit that Israel did intentionally attack electronic intelligence-gathering ship, USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, which resulted the death of 34 young Americans and wounding another 171. The Zionist regime blamed Egypt for the attack. The Israeli-poodle president Lyndon Johnson (his mother Rebekah Baines had Jewish family roots) covered Israeli foot-prints under the influence of his advisor, Mathilde Krim, a former operative of Jewish terrorist group Irgun. Her husband Arthur Krim, then chaired the finance committee for the Democratic National Committee.

    Both Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Dean Rusk, secretary of state refuted Israeli story (“a tragic incident”) and called the incident a deliberate Israeli attack to suck American forces on Israeli side against Arabs.

    Lt. Com. James Ennes was one of the survivors on USS Liberty. His story can be read here. James was hounded by the Jewish Lobby groups for years. They called him “antisemite”, “Nazi bastard” and “drop dead”.

    Alan Hart, veteran British war correspondent and author who covered the war from Sinai – has claimed that Israel was not attacked by Arab armies but it was deliberate attack by Israeli defense minister Gen. Moshe Dayan to destroy Egypt’s Soviet supplied military equipment – planes, missiles, artillery, tanks, the lot. Both Zionist prime minister Eshkol and Dayan took the military adventure as result of US president Lyndon Johnson’s “conditional green light”. The invasion and occupation of Jordanian and Syrian territories were not part of President’s green light.

    https://rehmat1.com/2013/01/27/jewish-groups-apologize-for-israeli-attack-on-uss-liberty/

    Rehmat,

    The correct forms of address are ‘Dear Phil’, ‘Dear Phillip’, or ‘Dear Mr. Giraldi’.

    … or as I do here, just the first name.

    Still, as is sometimes the case, your post has much that is relevant this time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rehmat
    Thanks for lecture on English language Dr. Daniel Pipes - but I'm an engineer and that's how we address people who are younger than me.
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  16. @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    It is you yids and your whining and stale lies who are the broken record, Moishe.

    Read More
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  17. @Che Guava
    Remembering such an event on its anniversary seems quite fitting.

    I see that you have a grand total of one post on this, at least with your silly and insulting user name.

    One may suspect that you were directed here by the Internet Megaphone, or whatever is used for the same purpose now.

    Mr. Giraldi's articles are appreciated by many, he makes many valid points.

    Your post is just a witless attempt at personal invective.

    It’s just Moishe and his “our boys” bullshit, pretending to be a lover of America. They reveal themselves every time.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    Well said.

    As for bagels, there is a scene in the NHK (state broadaster's) great Silk Road series where bagels are being made at a bakery in one of the post-USSR 'stans', I cannot recall if it was Tajik or Uzbek.

    They were clearly making and selling bagels in the scene in the show.

    Not that I object to the bagel as something to eat, with a good filling, but it seems to originate in sth. west Asia.
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  18. iffen says:
    @geokat62

    And if the American people finally wake up and realize that they are tired of the entire farce and decide to wash their hands of the Middle East that would change everything.
     
    I recently made this comment on another thread. I believe it merits reposting here... adieu:

    This will be my final comment on Unz. I enjoyed debating with several of the commenters who frequent this site… and I wish them nothing but the best.

    Regards,

    geokat62

    A test to determine how well informed US citizens are about ME politics (I suspect the overwhelming majority would struggle to achieve a passing grade):

    1. Which couple is considered to have a “special relationship”?

    a) Mickey and Minnie Mouse
    b) Kim Kardashian and Kanye West
    c) Batman and Robin
    d) Israel and the US

    2. Who pushed hard to get the US to invade Iraq?

    a) The Russians
    b) The Israelis
    c) The Chinese
    d) The Italians

    3. What does AIPAC stand for?

    a) American Israel Public Affairs Committee
    b) Americans Into Power and Corruption
    c) American Indians for Peace and Cooperation
    d) African Irish Partnership and Collaboration

    4. Who owns the NY Times?

    a) Carlos Slim
    b) Howard Hughes
    c) Donald Trump
    d) Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.

    5. What is the number of UN resolutions the US has vetoed on Israel’s behalf?

    a) 1
    b) 7
    c) 39
    d) 53

    6. What is the number of Muslim countries the US has bombed or occupied since 1980?

    a) 3
    b) 14
    c) 6
    d) 21

    7. What is the amount of treasure the US has paid as tribute to Israel since 1949?

    a) $120 B
    b) $5 B
    c) $18 B
    d) $63 B

    8. Who is Victoria Nuland married to?

    a) Barack Obama
    b) Jack the Ripper
    c) Barbara Streisand
    d) Robert Kagan

    9. Who are the co-founders of PNAC?

    a) Barnum and Bailey
    b) Abbott and Costello
    c) Kristol and Kagan
    d) Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

    10. How do Israelis commonly refer to the US Congress?

    a) Knesset West
    b) The Legislative Branch
    c) The Chamber of Solons
    d) The Hill
     

    “Shane! Come back!”

    Read More
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  19. @Lot

    The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement
     
    That's quite a cover-up method, giving out a bunch of medals!

    The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident
     
    Really? Did they break their oaths then talking to you about it? Have they been penalized for breaking their "vow of secrecy?" Seems they haven't given all those medals they were awarded.

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with gunboats from the sea.
     
    How is it remotely plausible that Egypt would intentionally attack an American ship? Why would Egypt ever, in the midst of a war it was losing against Israel, provoke a war with the USA?

    The USS Liberty was friendly fire in the fog of war, and quite a war it was for Israel, fighting enemies with many times its population on multiple land and sea fronts.

    I suggest having a perusal of this article:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friendly_fire_incidents

    Note that it is extremely LONG.

    From that same broad era:

    3 July 1950 - Eight p-51s of No. 77 Squadron RAAF strafed and destroyed a train carrying thousands of American and South Korean soldiers who were mistaken for a North Korean convoy in the main highway between Suwon and P'yongtaek, resulting more than 700 casualties.

    Cyprus Emergency
    December 12, 1955: On the Troodos mountains near the village of Spilia during the Battle of Spilia, British units from the north and ones from the south, unable to see the fog and in the belief that they were surrounded by EOKA fighters, engaged each other in an eight-hour firefight involving airstrikes, artillery bombardments, and heavy weapons. This firefight caused 250 casualties, including 127 deaths, 102 injuries, and 21 missing, making it the deadliest friendly fire incident of the war.

    On October 15, 1958, 23 British soldiers of 1st Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles, were killed and 35 others injured while walking near the Kyrenia Mountains when two British machine gunners mistook them for EOKA fighters and opened fire on them for at least 15 minutes. Some British soldiers yelled multiple times at the machine gunners that they were friendlies and the group they belonged to, but the gunners kept on firing.


    Vietnam War
    It has been estimated that there may have been as many as 8,000 friendly fire incidents in the Vietnam War

    19 November 1967, a U.S. Marine Corps. F4 Phantom aircraft dropped a 500 lb (230 kg) bomb on the command post of the 2nd Battalion (Airborne) 503d Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade while they were in heavy contact with a numerically superior NVA force. At least 45 paratroopers were killed and another 45 wounded.

    1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus

    The Turkish destroyer D-354 Kocatepe was sunk by Turkish warplanes after being mistaken for an enemy ship.

    A flight of Greek Nord Noratlas aircraft transports carrying reinforcements from Greece was mistaken for a flight of Turkish aircraft by the defenders of Nicosia International Airport, who opened fire. Heavy Greek casualties were sustained.

    1982 Falklands War

    A Dassault Mirage III was shot down by Argentine Anti-Aircraft and small arms fire at Port Stanley while an A-4 Skyhawk was downed by a 35 mm antiaircraft battery near Goose Green. Both aircraft belonged to the Argentine Air Force.

    Companies A and C of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment, British Army engaged each other in an hour-long firefight in the Falkland Islands involving heavy weapons and artillery strikes, resulting in eight casualties, including five deaths and three injuries.

    1991 Gulf War

    During the Battle of Khafji, 11 American Marines were killed in two major incidents when their light armored vehicles (LAV's) were hit by missiles fired by a USAF A-10.

    Two soldiers of the U.S. Army were killed and a further six wounded when an American Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopter fired upon and destroyed a U.S. Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle and an M113 Armoured Personnel Carrier (in the same incident) during night operations.

    An American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacked British Warrior MICVs, resulting in nine British dead and numerous casualties.

    In the 1994 Black Hawk shootdown incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15Cs involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters over northern Iraq, killing 26 Coalition military and civilian personnel.

    Recordings of both the pilots and ground control discussing that the Liberty was an American ship have been released. That sinks your “friendly fire” theory like the terrorists of Tel Aviv were attempting to sink the Liberty.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Marcus
    Not to mention it was a clear day with unlimited visibility
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  20. iffen says:

    I doubt that you or most of your commenters can see it, but a problem in gaining support for an “impartial investigation” into the Liberty incident is lost in a sea of anti-Semitic touchstones like support for BDS, railing against the influence of the Lobby(?)/lobby, Alison Weir types, “faux” inquiries, etc. It is just one more bead on a string for you; just one more piece of the Jewspiracy puzzle. If a person, such as myself, was inclined to make a serious effort to gain further understanding of the incident, they would have to overcome the obstacles placed in the way by all the 88s who use this incident the same way that they use their “concern” for the Palestinians.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    You spoke of 88s once before. I can't google anything that makes much sense [including urban dictionary]

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=88s
    , @Sam Shama

    If a person, such as myself, was inclined to make a serious effort to gain further understanding of the incident, they would have to overcome the obstacles placed in the way by all the 88s
     
    I fail to understand how any of their "efforts" could possibly pose a hurdle for you to research into the proceedings of the U.S.S. Liberty ignominy.

    So, it’s true, y’all do stick together.

    purposely chosen, and therefore it seems in my sample, Jews are not overly tuned into the threats from white supremacists.

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  21. Marcus says:
    @Chris Mallory
    Recordings of both the pilots and ground control discussing that the Liberty was an American ship have been released. That sinks your "friendly fire" theory like the terrorists of Tel Aviv were attempting to sink the Liberty.

    Not to mention it was a clear day with unlimited visibility

    Read More
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  22. Sam Shama says:
    @geokat62

    And if the American people finally wake up and realize that they are tired of the entire farce and decide to wash their hands of the Middle East that would change everything.
     
    I recently made this comment on another thread. I believe it merits reposting here... adieu:

    This will be my final comment on Unz. I enjoyed debating with several of the commenters who frequent this site… and I wish them nothing but the best.

    Regards,

    geokat62

    A test to determine how well informed US citizens are about ME politics (I suspect the overwhelming majority would struggle to achieve a passing grade):

    1. Which couple is considered to have a “special relationship”?

    a) Mickey and Minnie Mouse
    b) Kim Kardashian and Kanye West
    c) Batman and Robin
    d) Israel and the US

    2. Who pushed hard to get the US to invade Iraq?

    a) The Russians
    b) The Israelis
    c) The Chinese
    d) The Italians

    3. What does AIPAC stand for?

    a) American Israel Public Affairs Committee
    b) Americans Into Power and Corruption
    c) American Indians for Peace and Cooperation
    d) African Irish Partnership and Collaboration

    4. Who owns the NY Times?

    a) Carlos Slim
    b) Howard Hughes
    c) Donald Trump
    d) Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.

    5. What is the number of UN resolutions the US has vetoed on Israel’s behalf?

    a) 1
    b) 7
    c) 39
    d) 53

    6. What is the number of Muslim countries the US has bombed or occupied since 1980?

    a) 3
    b) 14
    c) 6
    d) 21

    7. What is the amount of treasure the US has paid as tribute to Israel since 1949?

    a) $120 B
    b) $5 B
    c) $18 B
    d) $63 B

    8. Who is Victoria Nuland married to?

    a) Barack Obama
    b) Jack the Ripper
    c) Barbara Streisand
    d) Robert Kagan

    9. Who are the co-founders of PNAC?

    a) Barnum and Bailey
    b) Abbott and Costello
    c) Kristol and Kagan
    d) Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

    10. How do Israelis commonly refer to the US Congress?

    a) Knesset West
    b) The Legislative Branch
    c) The Chamber of Solons
    d) The Hill
     

    Your comments and contributions are going to be missed. Hopefully, you will change your mind.

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  23. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    I doubt that you or most of your commenters can see it, but a problem in gaining support for an “impartial investigation” into the Liberty incident is lost in a sea of anti-Semitic touchstones like support for BDS, railing against the influence of the Lobby(?)/lobby, Alison Weir types, “faux” inquiries, etc. It is just one more bead on a string for you; just one more piece of the Jewspiracy puzzle. If a person, such as myself, was inclined to make a serious effort to gain further understanding of the incident, they would have to overcome the obstacles placed in the way by all the 88s who use this incident the same way that they use their “concern” for the Palestinians.

    You spoke of 88s once before. I can’t google anything that makes much sense [including urban dictionary]

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=88s

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    The Hasbara agent, iffen, is making a reference to a code supposedly used by neo-Nazi groups. 8 is a reference to H, the eighth letter of the alphabet. 88 is a stand in for HH, which is an abbreviation of Heil Hitler. I've seen this displayed by unsavory elements in, e.g., the Aryan Brotherhood.

    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    The saddest thing of all is that world Jewry will end up being the ultimate victim of Zionism. This ideology is based on the following false premises:

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]

    (2) That therefore Ashkenaz Jews and all other Jews should relocate to Palestine even though that meant and means driving out the original inhabitants by any means necessary.

    (3) That concentrating all world Jewry in a spot surrounded on all sides by those embittered to the nth degree by this brutal piece of colonialism is a good idea.

    (4) That continually increasing this bitterness by contempt and brutally inhumane subjugation is also a good idea.

    What could possibly go wrong?


    The similarly situated Frankish Kingdom of Jerusalem endured for almost three centuries. Israel's far briefer life span has evidently convinced the Israelis that they are immune to demography and the tides of history. If I were one of them, I'd make sure to have a second passport and a boogie bag.

    , @iffen
    I doubt commenter 5371 will tell you, so:

    Hate on Display™ Hate Symbols Database
    88
    88 is a white supremacist numerical code for "Heil Hitler." H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so 88 = HH = Heil Hitler. One of the most common white supremacist symbols, 88 is used throughout the entire white supremacist movement, not just neo-Nazis. One can find it as a tattoo or graphic symbol; as part of the name of a group, publication or website; or as part of a screenname or e-mail address. It is even sometimes used as a greeting or sign-off (particularly in messages on social networking websites).

    The number is frequently combined with another white supremacist numeric code, 14 (shorthand for the so-called "14 Words" slogan: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children") in the form of 1488, 14/88, 14-88, or 8814…

    It should be noted that 88 can be found in non-extremist contexts. The number is used by ham radio operators to mean "hugs" or "hugs and kisses." Also, a number of NASCAR drivers, including several very well-known ones, have used the number 88, resulting in various automobile stickers and other forms of merchandise sporting that number.

    This is from the ADL website. Go have a look, they have interesting photos of tattoos.

    Are you sure you are Jewish?

    I can understand some of the confusion because a lot of these that comment here don't qualify as 88s, most barely make it to 44, maybe even a 22 now and then.
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  24. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    “Nothing to say about the US’s adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?”

    Thank you for the perfect demonstration of hasbara technique.
    Here is the crux of the matter of this article that alarmed you so much, “That Congress is deaf to the pleas of the Liberty crew should surprise no one as the nation’s legislative body has been for years, as Pat Buchanan once put it, “Israeli occupied territory.”

    Read More
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  25. @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    Hasbara troll. The Israeli’s must be paying by the word now.

    And the new Israeli argument seems to be, “This happened so long ago; let’s just forget about it,” I’ll make a deal with you: I’ll forget about the Liberty when I never hear another peep from any Jew about the Holocaust.

    Read More
    • Agree: anarchyst
    • Replies: @Morris Bernstein
    So what if somebody makes a buck? I fully believe in everything I say. However, this is time of my life, so I do need to be compensated. It's not much, and it doesn't come from Israel. $2,000 a month for 5 hours per week, but it's from the comfort of home. Nobody going to get rich off doing it or quit their day job, so it's not like we would lie for chump change.
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  26. annamaria says:
    @Fran Macadam
    Sanders is Jewish and Trump's got Jewish in-laws. That should tell us that not all influential Jewish folk in America, particularly, are onboard with the wealthy donorist Likudnik class that strongarms policy with money. Nor are all those in Israel who are Jewish universally for the destructive policies under Netanyahu and his far-right coalition allies.

    Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation.

    It is amazing how effectively Israel gives, but her own actions, the rationalization to all the wrongs that were done towards Jews in those countries where Jews decided to reside during last two millennia.

    Read More
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  27. annamaria says:
    @Tom Welsh
    '“President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised'.

    And how was this was different from the Soviet political and judicial system? This single case provides clear and sufficient proof that there was no impartial justice in the USA in the 1960s, since when matters have got steadily worse.

    Agree

    Read More
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  28. @Lot

    The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the U.S.S. Liberty the most decorated ship based on a single engagement
     
    That's quite a cover-up method, giving out a bunch of medals!

    The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident
     
    Really? Did they break their oaths then talking to you about it? Have they been penalized for breaking their "vow of secrecy?" Seems they haven't given all those medals they were awarded.

    The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and with gunboats from the sea.
     
    How is it remotely plausible that Egypt would intentionally attack an American ship? Why would Egypt ever, in the midst of a war it was losing against Israel, provoke a war with the USA?

    The USS Liberty was friendly fire in the fog of war, and quite a war it was for Israel, fighting enemies with many times its population on multiple land and sea fronts.

    I suggest having a perusal of this article:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friendly_fire_incidents

    Note that it is extremely LONG.

    From that same broad era:

    3 July 1950 - Eight p-51s of No. 77 Squadron RAAF strafed and destroyed a train carrying thousands of American and South Korean soldiers who were mistaken for a North Korean convoy in the main highway between Suwon and P'yongtaek, resulting more than 700 casualties.

    Cyprus Emergency
    December 12, 1955: On the Troodos mountains near the village of Spilia during the Battle of Spilia, British units from the north and ones from the south, unable to see the fog and in the belief that they were surrounded by EOKA fighters, engaged each other in an eight-hour firefight involving airstrikes, artillery bombardments, and heavy weapons. This firefight caused 250 casualties, including 127 deaths, 102 injuries, and 21 missing, making it the deadliest friendly fire incident of the war.

    On October 15, 1958, 23 British soldiers of 1st Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles, were killed and 35 others injured while walking near the Kyrenia Mountains when two British machine gunners mistook them for EOKA fighters and opened fire on them for at least 15 minutes. Some British soldiers yelled multiple times at the machine gunners that they were friendlies and the group they belonged to, but the gunners kept on firing.


    Vietnam War
    It has been estimated that there may have been as many as 8,000 friendly fire incidents in the Vietnam War

    19 November 1967, a U.S. Marine Corps. F4 Phantom aircraft dropped a 500 lb (230 kg) bomb on the command post of the 2nd Battalion (Airborne) 503d Infantry, 173d Airborne Brigade while they were in heavy contact with a numerically superior NVA force. At least 45 paratroopers were killed and another 45 wounded.

    1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus

    The Turkish destroyer D-354 Kocatepe was sunk by Turkish warplanes after being mistaken for an enemy ship.

    A flight of Greek Nord Noratlas aircraft transports carrying reinforcements from Greece was mistaken for a flight of Turkish aircraft by the defenders of Nicosia International Airport, who opened fire. Heavy Greek casualties were sustained.

    1982 Falklands War

    A Dassault Mirage III was shot down by Argentine Anti-Aircraft and small arms fire at Port Stanley while an A-4 Skyhawk was downed by a 35 mm antiaircraft battery near Goose Green. Both aircraft belonged to the Argentine Air Force.

    Companies A and C of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment, British Army engaged each other in an hour-long firefight in the Falkland Islands involving heavy weapons and artillery strikes, resulting in eight casualties, including five deaths and three injuries.

    1991 Gulf War

    During the Battle of Khafji, 11 American Marines were killed in two major incidents when their light armored vehicles (LAV's) were hit by missiles fired by a USAF A-10.

    Two soldiers of the U.S. Army were killed and a further six wounded when an American Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopter fired upon and destroyed a U.S. Army Bradley Fighting Vehicle and an M113 Armoured Personnel Carrier (in the same incident) during night operations.

    An American A-10 during Operation Desert Storm attacked British Warrior MICVs, resulting in nine British dead and numerous casualties.

    In the 1994 Black Hawk shootdown incident, two U.S. Air Force F-15Cs involved with Operation Provide Comfort shot down two U.S. Army UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters over northern Iraq, killing 26 Coalition military and civilian personnel.

    Another Hasbara troll. This probably comes direct from some anal cavity in Tel Aviv.

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  29. biz says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    Exactly. The day after yet another Jihadist massacre and the largest mass shooting in American history is a strange day to focus on an event from 50 years ago.

    It is the same thing that the liberals are trying to do at Daily Kos and Salon – change the conversation. In their case they are trying to fixate on Timothy McVeigh and abortion clinic bombings to distract from the Islamist atrocity. At least they are 20 years out of date – Giraldi is 2.5 times as out of date as they are.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    The day after yet another Jihadist massacre and the largest mass shooting in American history is a strange day to focus on an event from 50 years ago.

    I wondered how long it would take some low life Jew to make hay from the death of those Americans.

    Just like 9/11 - it is Jews who brought this death to America – our shores are vulnerable because of resident US Jews.

    Muslims are not our fight – Muslims are Israel’s fight.

    We want to trade with Muslims not fight them.

    If the Jews were to leave our shores, there would be NO fight between America and Muslims – PERIOD.

    Go away - biz
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  30. Che Guava says:
    @ISmellBagels
    It's just Moishe and his "our boys" bullshit, pretending to be a lover of America. They reveal themselves every time.

    Well said.

    As for bagels, there is a scene in the NHK (state broadaster’s) great Silk Road series where bagels are being made at a bakery in one of the post-USSR ‘stans’, I cannot recall if it was Tajik or Uzbek.

    They were clearly making and selling bagels in the scene in the show.

    Not that I object to the bagel as something to eat, with a good filling, but it seems to originate in sth. west Asia.

    Read More
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  31. @Sam Shama
    You spoke of 88s once before. I can't google anything that makes much sense [including urban dictionary]

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=88s

    The Hasbara agent, iffen, is making a reference to a code supposedly used by neo-Nazi groups. 8 is a reference to H, the eighth letter of the alphabet. 88 is a stand in for HH, which is an abbreviation of Heil Hitler. I’ve seen this displayed by unsavory elements in, e.g., the Aryan Brotherhood.

    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    The saddest thing of all is that world Jewry will end up being the ultimate victim of Zionism. This ideology is based on the following false premises:

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]

    (2) That therefore Ashkenaz Jews and all other Jews should relocate to Palestine even though that meant and means driving out the original inhabitants by any means necessary.

    (3) That concentrating all world Jewry in a spot surrounded on all sides by those embittered to the nth degree by this brutal piece of colonialism is a good idea.

    (4) That continually increasing this bitterness by contempt and brutally inhumane subjugation is also a good idea.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    The similarly situated Frankish Kingdom of Jerusalem endured for almost three centuries. Israel’s far briefer life span has evidently convinced the Israelis that they are immune to demography and the tides of history. If I were one of them, I’d make sure to have a second passport and a boogie bag.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    Sam the Lion: I've been around that trashy behavior all my life, I'm gettin' tired of puttin' up with it. Now you can stay out of this pool hall, out of my cafe, and my picture show too - I don't want no more of your business.

    Sophistry in action. Anti-Semitism masquerading as innocent inquiry, and not very cleverly.

    Why, oh why, did we have to take sides against Germany?

    Because we can see into the fucking future! We know how WWII turned out!
    , @biz

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]
     
    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. I don't know if you are actually ignorant of that or lying out of your ass, but either way this is representative of the quality of discourse on the anti-Israel left.
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  32. Sherman says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    You are 100% correct.

    Geraldi is a Holocaust denier who makes his living peddling hatred and conspiracy theories.

    At no point in his article does he mention a motive as to why Israel attacked the USS Liberty. At no point does he mention that Israeli pilots and ground control were stressed and exhausted from fighting a ferocious war. At no point does he mention that the USS Liberty was – by all accounts – in dangerous waters or that Israel warned foreign ships to stay out of this zone.

    Giraldi only cares about the victims of this tragedy only so far as he can exploit them to further his hate-filled agenda.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Geraldi is a Holocaust denier

    I haven't read all of his writing, so can you direct me to a passage that indicates this?

    From his articles that I have read, it seems to me that he is more anti-Israeli undue influence than anti-Semitic; there is a difference.
    , @ISmellBagels
    Another Moishe Yidturd earning a few shekels today. Save it turd.
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  33. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    You spoke of 88s once before. I can't google anything that makes much sense [including urban dictionary]

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=88s

    I doubt commenter 5371 will tell you, so:

    Hate on Display™ Hate Symbols Database
    88
    88 is a white supremacist numerical code for “Heil Hitler.” H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so 88 = HH = Heil Hitler. One of the most common white supremacist symbols, 88 is used throughout the entire white supremacist movement, not just neo-Nazis. One can find it as a tattoo or graphic symbol; as part of the name of a group, publication or website; or as part of a screenname or e-mail address. It is even sometimes used as a greeting or sign-off (particularly in messages on social networking websites).

    The number is frequently combined with another white supremacist numeric code, 14 (shorthand for the so-called “14 Words” slogan: “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children”) in the form of 1488, 14/88, 14-88, or 8814…

    It should be noted that 88 can be found in non-extremist contexts. The number is used by ham radio operators to mean “hugs” or “hugs and kisses.” Also, a number of NASCAR drivers, including several very well-known ones, have used the number 88, resulting in various automobile stickers and other forms of merchandise sporting that number.

    This is from the ADL website. Go have a look, they have interesting photos of tattoos.

    Are you sure you are Jewish?

    I can understand some of the confusion because a lot of these that comment here don’t qualify as 88s, most barely make it to 44, maybe even a 22 now and then.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I have two friends who used to work in Hong Kong who include 88 in their email addresses. For good luck I think.
    , @Sam Shama
    Hi Iffen,
    Got it. Thank you for the explanation. I haven't spent much time wandering around the ADL website. [Frankly, I find these sites a bit contrived as most Jews in this country can hardly recount any anti-semitic experiences these days, and on the contrary, in these parts, being Jewish is no more remarkable than being Episcopalian; am I wrong?]

    I am not particularly religious in common meaning, [but keep options open to the idea that we are an output of a simulation underway, and religious thoughts from its primitive beginnings as written in our early texts to our present condition, represent attempts to understand, as code upgrades and modifications are made.

    Also increasingly some these Jew hatred filled comments on UR, I find truly boring]

    , @Sam Shama
    I just asked 9 of my friends [all of them Jewish] on a common communication platform if they knew what 88 meant. None knew.

    btw, you reckon 5371 is 88? [I actually thought the choice had to do with a certain year in the Jewish calendar :-) ]
    , @WhatEvvs
    Thanks - I did used to know a pianist whose online moniker was 88Keys, because that's what a piano has. Great guy.

    I wonder if Giraldi will tell us what he thinks of this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike

    As far as the "sworn to secrecy" thing goes....ROFL.
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  34. iffen says:
    @Sherman
    You are 100% correct.

    Geraldi is a Holocaust denier who makes his living peddling hatred and conspiracy theories.

    At no point in his article does he mention a motive as to why Israel attacked the USS Liberty. At no point does he mention that Israeli pilots and ground control were stressed and exhausted from fighting a ferocious war. At no point does he mention that the USS Liberty was - by all accounts - in dangerous waters or that Israel warned foreign ships to stay out of this zone.

    Giraldi only cares about the victims of this tragedy only so far as he can exploit them to further his hate-filled agenda.

    Geraldi is a Holocaust denier

    I haven’t read all of his writing, so can you direct me to a passage that indicates this?

    From his articles that I have read, it seems to me that he is more anti-Israeli undue influence than anti-Semitic; there is a difference.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Chris Mallory
    Don't you know that being opposed to Israeli control of Western governments means you want to fire up the Panzers and relight the ovens?
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  35. Tom Welsh says:

    “Congressional willingness to protect Israel even when it is killing Americans is remarkable, but it is symptom of the legislative body’s willingness to go to bat for Israel reflexively, even when it is damaging to U.S. interests and to the rights that American citizens are supposed to enjoy”.

    Mark Twain nailed it in the 19th century:

    “It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctively native American criminal class except Congress”.

    Read More
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  36. @iffen
    Geraldi is a Holocaust denier

    I haven't read all of his writing, so can you direct me to a passage that indicates this?

    From his articles that I have read, it seems to me that he is more anti-Israeli undue influence than anti-Semitic; there is a difference.

    Don’t you know that being opposed to Israeli control of Western governments means you want to fire up the Panzers and relight the ovens?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Don't you know that the ones who want to fire up the Panzers and relight the ovens are opposed to Israeli control of Western governments.
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  37. iffen says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    The Hasbara agent, iffen, is making a reference to a code supposedly used by neo-Nazi groups. 8 is a reference to H, the eighth letter of the alphabet. 88 is a stand in for HH, which is an abbreviation of Heil Hitler. I've seen this displayed by unsavory elements in, e.g., the Aryan Brotherhood.

    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    The saddest thing of all is that world Jewry will end up being the ultimate victim of Zionism. This ideology is based on the following false premises:

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]

    (2) That therefore Ashkenaz Jews and all other Jews should relocate to Palestine even though that meant and means driving out the original inhabitants by any means necessary.

    (3) That concentrating all world Jewry in a spot surrounded on all sides by those embittered to the nth degree by this brutal piece of colonialism is a good idea.

    (4) That continually increasing this bitterness by contempt and brutally inhumane subjugation is also a good idea.

    What could possibly go wrong?


    The similarly situated Frankish Kingdom of Jerusalem endured for almost three centuries. Israel's far briefer life span has evidently convinced the Israelis that they are immune to demography and the tides of history. If I were one of them, I'd make sure to have a second passport and a boogie bag.

    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    Sam the Lion: I’ve been around that trashy behavior all my life, I’m gettin’ tired of puttin’ up with it. Now you can stay out of this pool hall, out of my cafe, and my picture show too – I don’t want no more of your business.

    Sophistry in action. Anti-Semitism masquerading as innocent inquiry, and not very cleverly.

    Why, oh why, did we have to take sides against Germany?

    Because we can see into the fucking future! We know how WWII turned out!

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    The "innocent enquiry" point seems a bit paranoid. I am a certified philo-Semite but could easily ask a question about something one's Jewish acquaintances would most likely know more about in an emollient form. E.g. How can one explain why the attack on the Liberty was kept up for so long? And surely it is known who gave the orders???
    , @Sam Shama
    Are you thinking that I am @Jus' Sayin' ? Not by a long shot. Ok now I understand what you mean't by misdirection. Well blimey, I have been accused of the very same. Of course there are a few characters here who seem obsessively engaged in subterfuge [Art, e.g now thankfully in the rubbish bin]. I am just bored with the lack of interesting issues/puzzles.
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  38. biz says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    The Hasbara agent, iffen, is making a reference to a code supposedly used by neo-Nazi groups. 8 is a reference to H, the eighth letter of the alphabet. 88 is a stand in for HH, which is an abbreviation of Heil Hitler. I've seen this displayed by unsavory elements in, e.g., the Aryan Brotherhood.

    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    The saddest thing of all is that world Jewry will end up being the ultimate victim of Zionism. This ideology is based on the following false premises:

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]

    (2) That therefore Ashkenaz Jews and all other Jews should relocate to Palestine even though that meant and means driving out the original inhabitants by any means necessary.

    (3) That concentrating all world Jewry in a spot surrounded on all sides by those embittered to the nth degree by this brutal piece of colonialism is a good idea.

    (4) That continually increasing this bitterness by contempt and brutally inhumane subjugation is also a good idea.

    What could possibly go wrong?


    The similarly situated Frankish Kingdom of Jerusalem endured for almost three centuries. Israel's far briefer life span has evidently convinced the Israelis that they are immune to demography and the tides of history. If I were one of them, I'd make sure to have a second passport and a boogie bag.

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]

    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. I don’t know if you are actually ignorant of that or lying out of your ass, but either way this is representative of the quality of discourse on the anti-Israel left.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I think it was Ron Unz who quoted a figure of 30 per cent fhe
    European genes in Askenazim.. Given the blue eyes, red side burns etc. that seems about right.
    , @Art
    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. ... yada ... yada.

    What is it about Ashkenazi Jew genetics, that makes them such inveterate liars?

    This is a clear degenerate situation – it makes them impossible to live with – good people have to push them away.

    Not to love and abide by the truth is anti-Western – anti-Christian.

    These poor inferior Ashkenazi Jews start out life with a great defect. One must feel sorry for them and their children. Their backwards Luddite culture does nothing to correct the situation.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    Ashkenaz mDNA is entirely European. Ashkenaz nuclear DNA has a contribution from male Jews who left Palestine well over two thousand years ago. I'd say most reasonable people would agree that Ashkenaz Jews are primarily of European descent. They differ significantly from all other Jews genotypically and phenotypically. For example, only Ashkenaz Jews show an average group intelligence higher than average and the genetic load that goes along with this, e.g. Tay-Sachs. Sephardic and other Jews have average or below average group IQ.

    Ashkenaz Jews are descended from male Jews in the diaspora of classical times who settled in Italy and married local Italian women around 2000 years ago. Descendants of this group migrated into more northern parts of Europe a bit over a thousand years ago. There was a major bottleneck around this time and modern Ashkenaz Jews appear to trace their ancestry back to a group of about 300-500 of these individuals. Apparently these males still intermarried with local women for some period. This is now accepted science that can be confirmed easily by an unbiased internet search or more fully by an examination of the relevant scientific literature.

    If you think this entitles Ashkenaz Jews to the Holy Land feel free.
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  39. iffen says:
    @Chris Mallory
    Don't you know that being opposed to Israeli control of Western governments means you want to fire up the Panzers and relight the ovens?

    Don’t you know that the ones who want to fire up the Panzers and relight the ovens are opposed to Israeli control of Western governments.

    Read More
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  40. @geokat62

    And if the American people finally wake up and realize that they are tired of the entire farce and decide to wash their hands of the Middle East that would change everything.
     
    I recently made this comment on another thread. I believe it merits reposting here... adieu:

    This will be my final comment on Unz. I enjoyed debating with several of the commenters who frequent this site… and I wish them nothing but the best.

    Regards,

    geokat62

    A test to determine how well informed US citizens are about ME politics (I suspect the overwhelming majority would struggle to achieve a passing grade):

    1. Which couple is considered to have a “special relationship”?

    a) Mickey and Minnie Mouse
    b) Kim Kardashian and Kanye West
    c) Batman and Robin
    d) Israel and the US

    2. Who pushed hard to get the US to invade Iraq?

    a) The Russians
    b) The Israelis
    c) The Chinese
    d) The Italians

    3. What does AIPAC stand for?

    a) American Israel Public Affairs Committee
    b) Americans Into Power and Corruption
    c) American Indians for Peace and Cooperation
    d) African Irish Partnership and Collaboration

    4. Who owns the NY Times?

    a) Carlos Slim
    b) Howard Hughes
    c) Donald Trump
    d) Arthur Ochs Sulzberger Jr.

    5. What is the number of UN resolutions the US has vetoed on Israel’s behalf?

    a) 1
    b) 7
    c) 39
    d) 53

    6. What is the number of Muslim countries the US has bombed or occupied since 1980?

    a) 3
    b) 14
    c) 6
    d) 21

    7. What is the amount of treasure the US has paid as tribute to Israel since 1949?

    a) $120 B
    b) $5 B
    c) $18 B
    d) $63 B

    8. Who is Victoria Nuland married to?

    a) Barack Obama
    b) Jack the Ripper
    c) Barbara Streisand
    d) Robert Kagan

    9. Who are the co-founders of PNAC?

    a) Barnum and Bailey
    b) Abbott and Costello
    c) Kristol and Kagan
    d) Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

    10. How do Israelis commonly refer to the US Congress?

    a) Knesset West
    b) The Legislative Branch
    c) The Chamber of Solons
    d) The Hill
     

    YourQ 6. Let’s see, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria, Kuwait… do you count Bosnia and Saudi Arabia? S the answer is presumably 14 but which are they?

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  41. @biz

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]
     
    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. I don't know if you are actually ignorant of that or lying out of your ass, but either way this is representative of the quality of discourse on the anti-Israel left.

    I think it was Ron Unz who quoted a figure of 30 per cent fhe
    European genes in Askenazim.. Given the blue eyes, red side burns etc. that seems about right.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    At least 48% European, more probably somewhere in the 50-60% range.
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  42. @iffen
    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    Sam the Lion: I've been around that trashy behavior all my life, I'm gettin' tired of puttin' up with it. Now you can stay out of this pool hall, out of my cafe, and my picture show too - I don't want no more of your business.

    Sophistry in action. Anti-Semitism masquerading as innocent inquiry, and not very cleverly.

    Why, oh why, did we have to take sides against Germany?

    Because we can see into the fucking future! We know how WWII turned out!

    The “innocent enquiry” point seems a bit paranoid. I am a certified philo-Semite but could easily ask a question about something one’s Jewish acquaintances would most likely know more about in an emollient form. E.g. How can one explain why the attack on the Liberty was kept up for so long? And surely it is known who gave the orders???

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    I am self-certified as neutral on the Israel problem. 88s can fuck off.

    There is a distinction to be made between “innocent inquiry” as to ascertaining “the Truth” and inquiry intended as sophistry. You may not care about the difference, I do.

    It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.

    On a related note, there is an extremely narrow window of inquiry into the “reality” of the Holocaust that does not derive from anti-Semitism. IOW, Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise.
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  43. @iffen
    I doubt commenter 5371 will tell you, so:

    Hate on Display™ Hate Symbols Database
    88
    88 is a white supremacist numerical code for "Heil Hitler." H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so 88 = HH = Heil Hitler. One of the most common white supremacist symbols, 88 is used throughout the entire white supremacist movement, not just neo-Nazis. One can find it as a tattoo or graphic symbol; as part of the name of a group, publication or website; or as part of a screenname or e-mail address. It is even sometimes used as a greeting or sign-off (particularly in messages on social networking websites).

    The number is frequently combined with another white supremacist numeric code, 14 (shorthand for the so-called "14 Words" slogan: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children") in the form of 1488, 14/88, 14-88, or 8814…

    It should be noted that 88 can be found in non-extremist contexts. The number is used by ham radio operators to mean "hugs" or "hugs and kisses." Also, a number of NASCAR drivers, including several very well-known ones, have used the number 88, resulting in various automobile stickers and other forms of merchandise sporting that number.

    This is from the ADL website. Go have a look, they have interesting photos of tattoos.

    Are you sure you are Jewish?

    I can understand some of the confusion because a lot of these that comment here don't qualify as 88s, most barely make it to 44, maybe even a 22 now and then.

    I have two friends who used to work in Hong Kong who include 88 in their email addresses. For good luck I think.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Interestingly, a Jewish custom when gifting money for a Bar Mitzvah or a wedding, the number 8 features prominently. It could be a multiple of 18, or a repetition of it, or written in reverse order. So $18, $180, $1818 or even $1881 would work.

    Just another example of Jewish appropriation, some might say.

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  44. gwynedd1 says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    Its not like anyone else is milking the past for political gain now are they?

    Read More
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  45. Canute says:

    Over the years I have read several books and articles regarding the USS Liberty incident. I have always been impressed by two aspects of the information available – a) the preponderance of evidence that the attack was deliberate and b) the extremes that Israel has employed to vilify or otherwise discredit anyone who raises questions regarding a). That caused me to go back and start reading histories about the Zionist cause over the decades and now, well over a century. The victim card is always at the top of the deck when Israel begins a response and the attacks rarely address the questions raise or the issues involved, but instead depend heavily on declarations of hatred and anti-semitism. At the end of several years of study and researching, I have only one question. Why did 19 western nations quickly and suddenly pass laws making it a criminal offense to question or even critically research the “Holocaust?” The is no other historical event that requires such legal protection – no where, at any time in history can I find another example.

    Read More
    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @Wally
    Even Jews are jumping ship.

    From the book by Revisionist Jew, Gerard Menuhin, the son of the famed Jewish violinist Yehuda Menuhin:

    TELL THE TRUTH & SHAME THE DEVIL
    By GERARD MENUHIN
    Copyright 2015 by GERARD MENUHIN and THE BARNES REVIEW
    Published by:
    THE BARNES REVIEW, P.O. Box 15877, Washington, D.C. 20003
    available at: https://shop.codoh.com/book/406

    quotes from .pdf version, pagination may be slightly different:
    p.173
    "Those ultimately responsible for this hopeless situation have succeeded in their conspiracy: they have created, with the aid of “holocaust” professionals and propaganda, the necessary climate of guilt whereby never-ending legal as well as illegal immigration goes unchallenged, resulting in a fractured society, civil unrest and inadequate social funds. The desired massive debt is therefore programmed. Jewish influence has achieved the dissolution of a once cohesive community."

    p.305
    "Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble."

    p.458
    "Jewish huckstering is most obviously apparent in its frenzied compulsion to uphold the “holocaust” myth, whose exposure would not only refute the Jews’ claim to Palestine and to endless financial reparations and atonement for harm not done to them, it would also deliver Jews and their minions to the fury of a world deceived and victimized for centuries by their lies and conspiracies."

    p.303, paperback ed.
    "Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish "holocaust" and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the "survivors"? Because it "dishonors the dead"? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.
     
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  46. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Wizard of Oz
    I think it was Ron Unz who quoted a figure of 30 per cent fhe
    European genes in Askenazim.. Given the blue eyes, red side burns etc. that seems about right.

    At least 48% European, more probably somewhere in the 50-60% range.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Hi

    Is that Greg Cochran there missing the "o" with thumb on smartphone?

    I shall have to resume my skirmish of 10 years ago wherein I insisted on the theoretical possiblity and likely reality of Ashkenazi IQ having risen partly because of dumb Jewish males not breeding (or at least not ss Jews) - at which you scoffed.

    Anyway I can go on calling my rabbi friend who told me that there were Jews in the Rhineland before there were Germans "cousin".

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  47. Art says:
    @biz
    Exactly. The day after yet another Jihadist massacre and the largest mass shooting in American history is a strange day to focus on an event from 50 years ago.

    It is the same thing that the liberals are trying to do at Daily Kos and Salon - change the conversation. In their case they are trying to fixate on Timothy McVeigh and abortion clinic bombings to distract from the Islamist atrocity. At least they are 20 years out of date - Giraldi is 2.5 times as out of date as they are.

    The day after yet another Jihadist massacre and the largest mass shooting in American history is a strange day to focus on an event from 50 years ago.

    I wondered how long it would take some low life Jew to make hay from the death of those Americans.

    Just like 9/11 – it is Jews who brought this death to America – our shores are vulnerable because of resident US Jews.

    Muslims are not our fight – Muslims are Israel’s fight.

    We want to trade with Muslims not fight them.

    If the Jews were to leave our shores, there would be NO fight between America and Muslims – PERIOD.

    Go away – biz

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz

    If the Jews were to leave our shores, there would be NO fight between America and Muslims – PERIOD.
     
    Lol, what is this, Salon.com?

    Whether you want it or not, Muslims have decided that you are their fight.

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  48. iffen says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    The "innocent enquiry" point seems a bit paranoid. I am a certified philo-Semite but could easily ask a question about something one's Jewish acquaintances would most likely know more about in an emollient form. E.g. How can one explain why the attack on the Liberty was kept up for so long? And surely it is known who gave the orders???

    I am self-certified as neutral on the Israel problem. 88s can fuck off.

    There is a distinction to be made between “innocent inquiry” as to ascertaining “the Truth” and inquiry intended as sophistry. You may not care about the difference, I do.

    It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.

    On a related note, there is an extremely narrow window of inquiry into the “reality” of the Holocaust that does not derive from anti-Semitism. IOW, Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.
     
    Hmm - Jews are only hated because they are Jews – NOT because of what they do. The fact of their cultural habits of lying and greed are to be ignored. Their ancient historical celebrations of death to others are to be ignored. Their degenerative proclivities must be ignored. Their history is inconsequential.

    For a Gentile to know and act on Jew history is anti-Semitic. To even question, to inquire is anti-Semitic.

    If you do you will be called an anti-Semitic 88 Nazi by iffen and his anti-Western, anti-Gentile tribal coercive gang.

    Why do we put up with iffen and his gang?

    Go away iffen!
    , @schmenz
    "Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise."

    Thank you for that ruling, Chief Justice Iffen.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    The problem is you give no help in determining the all important underlying motivation so one's personality - paranoid or the opposite - is likely to dominate.
    , @Ace
    No. IOW, the burden of proof that a "holocaust denier" is anti-Semitic is on the proponent of that point.

    Can one say that there is "an extremely narrow window of inquiry into the 'reality' of Jewish feelings of friendship for Christians" so that Jews are anti-Christian until proven otherwise?

    Who decides what is an extremely narrow window of inquiry on any issue?
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  49. Rehmat says:
    @Che Guava
    Rehmat,

    The correct forms of address are 'Dear Phil', 'Dear Phillip', or 'Dear Mr. Giraldi'.

    ... or as I do here, just the first name.

    Still, as is sometimes the case, your post has much that is relevant this time.

    Thanks for lecture on English language Dr. Daniel Pipes – but I’m an engineer and that’s how we address people who are younger than me.

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  50. Rehmat says:

    This is a story of a slave nation which has constructed Holocaust Museums and Memorials in almost every major city in the country in the memory of Jews who died in far-away European countries during the early 1940s – but is allergic to the idea of building even a single Museum in the memory of mass-killing of tens of millions of American Natives or African slaves by the European settlers.

    The former commanding officer of the USS Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, generously donated to the Gift Fund during a memorial service for crew members in June 1989. His donation and a grant co-funded by the Andrew Mellon Foundation and the Wisconsin Humanities Committee enabled the library to offer The Library of America, a 60-volume set of writings of major American authors.

    Books on the Middle East also are available from all points of view, in keeping with the remark by Joseph Joubert, “It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.”

    A debate raged while the library was under construction over the suggestion by two major donors to the project to name the library in honor of the USS Liberty. The proposal set off attempts, mostly by residents of nearby Milwaukee, to induce residents to change the name. These included unrelenting critical media coverage, picketing during the ground-breaking ceremony, refusal by the school board to permit the high school band to participate, and the refusal of some area clergy and many invited military and federal government officials to attend the village’s memorial service for the crew.

    The project trustees wanted to name the library after Theodore and Benjamin Grob, two Swiss-born Jewish industrialists who donated $250,000 towards the project. But they rejected the offer saying: “Name it the USS Liberty Memorial Library in honor of the 34 Americans who died when Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967.”

    The powerful Jewish lobby Anti-Defamation League in Chicago describes the Liberty Lobby-whose name has no connection to the ship or the USS Liberty Veterans Association – as “the best-financed, most active anti-Semitic organization in America.”

    Howard Schoenfeld, president of Milwaukee`s Jewish Council, said the Liberty Lobby’s aim in keeping the issue before the public is “to be divisive and damaging to the US-Israeli relationship.” He denounced the effort as a “particularly pernicious attempt to take a tragic event and wrap anti-Semitism in the American flag.”

    A $83,000 federal donation was withdrawn, an invitation to the White House to send a representative was ignored (as was a personal invitation to GHW Bush), the local high school refused to provide a band for the opening ceremony, denouncing the organisers as Nazis, while the Commander of a nearby Naval Training Centre was ordered not to attend by Naval brass.

    https://rehmat1.com/2015/02/03/jews-against-uss-liberty-memorial-library/

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  51. Art says:
    @biz

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]
     
    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. I don't know if you are actually ignorant of that or lying out of your ass, but either way this is representative of the quality of discourse on the anti-Israel left.

    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. … yada … yada.

    What is it about Ashkenazi Jew genetics, that makes them such inveterate liars?

    This is a clear degenerate situation – it makes them impossible to live with – good people have to push them away.

    Not to love and abide by the truth is anti-Western – anti-Christian.

    These poor inferior Ashkenazi Jews start out life with a great defect. One must feel sorry for them and their children. Their backwards Luddite culture does nothing to correct the situation.

    Read More
    • Agree: edNels
    • Replies: @biz
    Quite a feat for a small group of 'Luddites' to have won around 30% of the science Nobel Prizes, no?
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  52. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    I doubt commenter 5371 will tell you, so:

    Hate on Display™ Hate Symbols Database
    88
    88 is a white supremacist numerical code for "Heil Hitler." H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so 88 = HH = Heil Hitler. One of the most common white supremacist symbols, 88 is used throughout the entire white supremacist movement, not just neo-Nazis. One can find it as a tattoo or graphic symbol; as part of the name of a group, publication or website; or as part of a screenname or e-mail address. It is even sometimes used as a greeting or sign-off (particularly in messages on social networking websites).

    The number is frequently combined with another white supremacist numeric code, 14 (shorthand for the so-called "14 Words" slogan: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children") in the form of 1488, 14/88, 14-88, or 8814…

    It should be noted that 88 can be found in non-extremist contexts. The number is used by ham radio operators to mean "hugs" or "hugs and kisses." Also, a number of NASCAR drivers, including several very well-known ones, have used the number 88, resulting in various automobile stickers and other forms of merchandise sporting that number.

    This is from the ADL website. Go have a look, they have interesting photos of tattoos.

    Are you sure you are Jewish?

    I can understand some of the confusion because a lot of these that comment here don't qualify as 88s, most barely make it to 44, maybe even a 22 now and then.

    Hi Iffen,
    Got it. Thank you for the explanation. I haven’t spent much time wandering around the ADL website. [Frankly, I find these sites a bit contrived as most Jews in this country can hardly recount any anti-semitic experiences these days, and on the contrary, in these parts, being Jewish is no more remarkable than being Episcopalian; am I wrong?]

    I am not particularly religious in common meaning, [but keep options open to the idea that we are an output of a simulation underway, and religious thoughts from its primitive beginnings as written in our early texts to our present condition, represent attempts to understand, as code upgrades and modifications are made.

    Also increasingly some these Jew hatred filled comments on UR, I find truly boring]

    Read More
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  53. biz says:
    @Art
    The day after yet another Jihadist massacre and the largest mass shooting in American history is a strange day to focus on an event from 50 years ago.

    I wondered how long it would take some low life Jew to make hay from the death of those Americans.

    Just like 9/11 - it is Jews who brought this death to America – our shores are vulnerable because of resident US Jews.

    Muslims are not our fight – Muslims are Israel’s fight.

    We want to trade with Muslims not fight them.

    If the Jews were to leave our shores, there would be NO fight between America and Muslims – PERIOD.

    Go away - biz

    If the Jews were to leave our shores, there would be NO fight between America and Muslims – PERIOD.

    Lol, what is this, Salon.com?

    Whether you want it or not, Muslims have decided that you are their fight.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Whether you want it or not, Muslims have decided that you are their fight.

    This makes you Jews very happy doesn't it.

    Christians and Muslims killing each other gets you off.

    You Zionist Jews are without redeeming value - worthless degenerates.

    Go away - biz

    p.s. America must break off - stop the fight, come home and look out for our people.
    , @Clyde
    Art is way way way out there. So much so that if anyone is getting paid by Tel Aviv Steve (Hasbara paymaster) it is him
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  54. @biz

    (1) That Ashkenaz Jews are not Europeans but direct descendants of Old Testament Jewry. [Genetic research has demonstrated the falsity of this premise.]
     
    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. I don't know if you are actually ignorant of that or lying out of your ass, but either way this is representative of the quality of discourse on the anti-Israel left.

    Ashkenaz mDNA is entirely European. Ashkenaz nuclear DNA has a contribution from male Jews who left Palestine well over two thousand years ago. I’d say most reasonable people would agree that Ashkenaz Jews are primarily of European descent. They differ significantly from all other Jews genotypically and phenotypically. For example, only Ashkenaz Jews show an average group intelligence higher than average and the genetic load that goes along with this, e.g. Tay-Sachs. Sephardic and other Jews have average or below average group IQ.

    Ashkenaz Jews are descended from male Jews in the diaspora of classical times who settled in Italy and married local Italian women around 2000 years ago. Descendants of this group migrated into more northern parts of Europe a bit over a thousand years ago. There was a major bottleneck around this time and modern Ashkenaz Jews appear to trace their ancestry back to a group of about 300-500 of these individuals. Apparently these males still intermarried with local women for some period. This is now accepted science that can be confirmed easily by an unbiased internet search or more fully by an examination of the relevant scientific literature.

    If you think this entitles Ashkenaz Jews to the Holy Land feel free.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    Actually, that was remarkably cogent and not too far removed from the truth. Congrats.

    Studies have shown Ashkenazim to have around 85% male levantine ancestry according to Y-chromosome analysis, and around 40% female levantine ancestry according to Mt-DNA analysis. This averages out to something like 62% levantine.

    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is 'entitled' to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them. Also they absorbed so many Jews that were ethnically cleansed out of Muslim countries that those Mizrahi Jews now comprise a majority of Israelis, so your bleating about the Ashkenazim is irrelevant now anyway.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    I question your emphasis on "Italian" women. Presumably only urban populations were significant though some might have been in small trading posts on frontiers. So the picture is one of merchants (mostly) not waiting till a bride from Palestine or elsewhere in the ME could be recruited. In that context I invoke my rabbi friend's "there were Jews in the Rhineland before there were Germans" and the blue eyes and red facial hair of many Ashkenazim and suggest a big female Celtic input. As the Gauls had sacked Rome it would be wrong to deny that the "Italian" women were Celts but I raise the question.
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  55. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    I doubt commenter 5371 will tell you, so:

    Hate on Display™ Hate Symbols Database
    88
    88 is a white supremacist numerical code for "Heil Hitler." H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so 88 = HH = Heil Hitler. One of the most common white supremacist symbols, 88 is used throughout the entire white supremacist movement, not just neo-Nazis. One can find it as a tattoo or graphic symbol; as part of the name of a group, publication or website; or as part of a screenname or e-mail address. It is even sometimes used as a greeting or sign-off (particularly in messages on social networking websites).

    The number is frequently combined with another white supremacist numeric code, 14 (shorthand for the so-called "14 Words" slogan: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children") in the form of 1488, 14/88, 14-88, or 8814…

    It should be noted that 88 can be found in non-extremist contexts. The number is used by ham radio operators to mean "hugs" or "hugs and kisses." Also, a number of NASCAR drivers, including several very well-known ones, have used the number 88, resulting in various automobile stickers and other forms of merchandise sporting that number.

    This is from the ADL website. Go have a look, they have interesting photos of tattoos.

    Are you sure you are Jewish?

    I can understand some of the confusion because a lot of these that comment here don't qualify as 88s, most barely make it to 44, maybe even a 22 now and then.

    I just asked 9 of my friends [all of them Jewish] on a common communication platform if they knew what 88 meant. None knew.

    btw, you reckon 5371 is 88? [I actually thought the choice had to do with a certain year in the Jewish calendar :-) ]

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    • Replies: @iffen
    My first visit to the ADL site was today. I just thought it odd that you (1) didn’t know what 88 meant, and (2) couldn’t find out. It is similar to being a black American and not knowing what KKK stands for and not being able to find out.

    No, being Jewish is not anywhere close to being like an Episcopalian. Not even apples and oranges, more like apples and rocks. They don’t really care whether you go to synagogue or not.

    Personal experience is just one avenue on the trip to knowledge.

    I just asked 9 of my friends [all of them Jewish]

    So, it’s true, y’all do stick together.

    There is a lot of misdirection on these comment threads. That really doesn’t bother me. Several of the commenters insist that I am Jewish or hasbara. I had to look up hasbara about two years ago when I first saw it. If hasbara exists then I am reasonably sure that some of the 88 traffic is generated by them; Abbot and Costello.

    Are the 88s a threat to Jews? That’s not really the main focus of my interests, so if they are, you and your friends are on your own.
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  56. Art says:
    @iffen
    I am self-certified as neutral on the Israel problem. 88s can fuck off.

    There is a distinction to be made between “innocent inquiry” as to ascertaining “the Truth” and inquiry intended as sophistry. You may not care about the difference, I do.

    It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.

    On a related note, there is an extremely narrow window of inquiry into the “reality” of the Holocaust that does not derive from anti-Semitism. IOW, Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise.

    It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.

    Hmm – Jews are only hated because they are Jews – NOT because of what they do. The fact of their cultural habits of lying and greed are to be ignored. Their ancient historical celebrations of death to others are to be ignored. Their degenerative proclivities must be ignored. Their history is inconsequential.

    For a Gentile to know and act on Jew history is anti-Semitic. To even question, to inquire is anti-Semitic.

    If you do you will be called an anti-Semitic 88 Nazi by iffen and his anti-Western, anti-Gentile tribal coercive gang.

    Why do we put up with iffen and his gang?

    Go away iffen!

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  57. @Jacques Sheete
    "Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago."

    So how does that explain the 24/7 indoctrination regarding "The" holocaust that none of us are supposed to ever forget? How long ago was that supposed to have occured?

    Indeed, Philip and his tribe managed to abscond with the entirety of WWII.

    I recently had a conversation with a lady who was working for the Memory Project (Canadian initiative to catalog veterans stories) – she was lobbing me to contribute more money to the project. I responded that I felt nothing had been learned from these wars and my fathers contribution (WWII Sailor) was being dishonored by the slavish devotion to veterans without any understanding of war and it’s consequences. She replied,

    “We went to war to save the Jews”

    I told her that Canada, at that time in history was indifferent to Jewish suffering. (In fact we sent Jewish refugees back to Europe in 1939.)

    Of the 80 to 90 million deaths (as a result of the second world war) only the jewish lives matter. Now that is the power of the Jewish Lobby, the theft of history.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    You are correct. The idea that FDR, Churchill or Stalin gave a (bleep) about ordinary Jews and went into WW2 to save the Jews is a most preposterous notion.

    It would be most interesting to ask the lady to provide evidence to support her beliefs.

    In fact, some Zionists collaborated with Nazis and I suspect that the Nazi-Zionist program to resettle Jews in Palestine added fuel to Churchill's furor over Germany in general and Hitler in particular.
    , @Rehmat
    In case you didn't notice - Canada has long become a Zionist Jewish colony like the US, UK, France, Australia and Germany.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/06/14/canada-iran-to-pay-13-million-to-victims-of-israeli-terrorism/
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  58. biz says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...
    Ashkenaz mDNA is entirely European. Ashkenaz nuclear DNA has a contribution from male Jews who left Palestine well over two thousand years ago. I'd say most reasonable people would agree that Ashkenaz Jews are primarily of European descent. They differ significantly from all other Jews genotypically and phenotypically. For example, only Ashkenaz Jews show an average group intelligence higher than average and the genetic load that goes along with this, e.g. Tay-Sachs. Sephardic and other Jews have average or below average group IQ.

    Ashkenaz Jews are descended from male Jews in the diaspora of classical times who settled in Italy and married local Italian women around 2000 years ago. Descendants of this group migrated into more northern parts of Europe a bit over a thousand years ago. There was a major bottleneck around this time and modern Ashkenaz Jews appear to trace their ancestry back to a group of about 300-500 of these individuals. Apparently these males still intermarried with local women for some period. This is now accepted science that can be confirmed easily by an unbiased internet search or more fully by an examination of the relevant scientific literature.

    If you think this entitles Ashkenaz Jews to the Holy Land feel free.

    Actually, that was remarkably cogent and not too far removed from the truth. Congrats.

    Studies have shown Ashkenazim to have around 85% male levantine ancestry according to Y-chromosome analysis, and around 40% female levantine ancestry according to Mt-DNA analysis. This averages out to something like 62% levantine.

    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is ‘entitled’ to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them. Also they absorbed so many Jews that were ethnically cleansed out of Muslim countries that those Mizrahi Jews now comprise a majority of Israelis, so your bleating about the Ashkenazim is irrelevant now anyway.

    Read More
    • Replies: @gcochran
    A better, more detailed analysis shows that Ashkenazi mtDNA is ~90% European, perhaps more. Mostly Italian.
    , @Jus' Sayin'...

    This averages out to something like 62% levantine.
     
    Studies I've seen put the figure the other way around; about 40% middle eastern.

    Your argument seems to be that European and Asian Jewish colonizers have stolen the land fair and square from its original inhabitants. It's the standard colonialist argument. For consistency's sake will you hold to it when the land gets taken back. The demographics make that inevitable. The poor showing of the entire IDF against one Hezbolla brigade about ten years ago make it likely sooner rather than later.

    The result will be a catastrophe for world Jewry. A catastrophe brought on by equating Judaism with Zionism. It will be comparable to earlier catastrophes brought on by earlier false Jewish prophets, e.g., Simon bar Kokhbar, Sabati Xevi.

    , @5371
    Y-chromosome analysis can show no such thing. The best designed whole-genome analyses have failed to suggest any ancestral connection with Palestine.
    , @iffen
    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is ‘entitled’ to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them.

    You might as well have written this in Linear A for all the understanding that it will get.

    Israel is a special nation state in more ways than one. In the instances here, the same rules that are applied to every nation state that exists, has existed or is coming into existence do not apply to only one nation, and that is Israel.

    But you know that.
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  59. biz says:
    @Art
    Actually genetic research has shown exactly the opposite. ... yada ... yada.

    What is it about Ashkenazi Jew genetics, that makes them such inveterate liars?

    This is a clear degenerate situation – it makes them impossible to live with – good people have to push them away.

    Not to love and abide by the truth is anti-Western – anti-Christian.

    These poor inferior Ashkenazi Jews start out life with a great defect. One must feel sorry for them and their children. Their backwards Luddite culture does nothing to correct the situation.

    Quite a feat for a small group of ‘Luddites’ to have won around 30% of the science Nobel Prizes, no?

    Read More
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  60. Art says:
    @biz

    If the Jews were to leave our shores, there would be NO fight between America and Muslims – PERIOD.
     
    Lol, what is this, Salon.com?

    Whether you want it or not, Muslims have decided that you are their fight.

    Whether you want it or not, Muslims have decided that you are their fight.

    This makes you Jews very happy doesn’t it.

    Christians and Muslims killing each other gets you off.

    You Zionist Jews are without redeeming value – worthless degenerates.

    Go away – biz

    p.s. America must break off – stop the fight, come home and look out for our people.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    I wish that Jihadism had never come to our shores, but it is here. This is not something you can withdraw from.

    Blaming Jews for what Muslims are doing to you only makes you look incredibly weak and pathetic. Man up and fight the fight that has been brought to your door.
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  61. biz says:
    @Art
    Whether you want it or not, Muslims have decided that you are their fight.

    This makes you Jews very happy doesn't it.

    Christians and Muslims killing each other gets you off.

    You Zionist Jews are without redeeming value - worthless degenerates.

    Go away - biz

    p.s. America must break off - stop the fight, come home and look out for our people.

    I wish that Jihadism had never come to our shores, but it is here. This is not something you can withdraw from.

    Blaming Jews for what Muslims are doing to you only makes you look incredibly weak and pathetic. Man up and fight the fight that has been brought to your door.

    Read More
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  62. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    I just asked 9 of my friends [all of them Jewish] on a common communication platform if they knew what 88 meant. None knew.

    btw, you reckon 5371 is 88? [I actually thought the choice had to do with a certain year in the Jewish calendar :-) ]

    My first visit to the ADL site was today. I just thought it odd that you (1) didn’t know what 88 meant, and (2) couldn’t find out. It is similar to being a black American and not knowing what KKK stands for and not being able to find out.

    No, being Jewish is not anywhere close to being like an Episcopalian. Not even apples and oranges, more like apples and rocks. They don’t really care whether you go to synagogue or not.

    Personal experience is just one avenue on the trip to knowledge.

    I just asked 9 of my friends [all of them Jewish]

    So, it’s true, y’all do stick together.

    There is a lot of misdirection on these comment threads. That really doesn’t bother me. Several of the commenters insist that I am Jewish or hasbara. I had to look up hasbara about two years ago when I first saw it. If hasbara exists then I am reasonably sure that some of the 88 traffic is generated by them; Abbot and Costello.

    Are the 88s a threat to Jews? That’s not really the main focus of my interests, so if they are, you and your friends are on your own.

    Read More
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  63. gcochran says:
    @biz
    Actually, that was remarkably cogent and not too far removed from the truth. Congrats.

    Studies have shown Ashkenazim to have around 85% male levantine ancestry according to Y-chromosome analysis, and around 40% female levantine ancestry according to Mt-DNA analysis. This averages out to something like 62% levantine.

    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is 'entitled' to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them. Also they absorbed so many Jews that were ethnically cleansed out of Muslim countries that those Mizrahi Jews now comprise a majority of Israelis, so your bleating about the Ashkenazim is irrelevant now anyway.

    A better, more detailed analysis shows that Ashkenazi mtDNA is ~90% European, perhaps more. Mostly Italian.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    So that's where you got the 48 per cent and/or 50 to 60 per cent European ancestry from? I.e averaging predominantly ME male and predominantly European female?

    What proportion Celtic? And....

    What can you tell us about the many smart Jews of Spain and their descendants as to genes and IQs? Were they originally just like the Ashkenazi forebears? And/or was there at some and what time a split? How far did the expelled Sephardis join up with Ashkenazi?
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  64. schmenz says:
    @iffen
    I am self-certified as neutral on the Israel problem. 88s can fuck off.

    There is a distinction to be made between “innocent inquiry” as to ascertaining “the Truth” and inquiry intended as sophistry. You may not care about the difference, I do.

    It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.

    On a related note, there is an extremely narrow window of inquiry into the “reality” of the Holocaust that does not derive from anti-Semitism. IOW, Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise.

    “Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise.”

    Thank you for that ruling, Chief Justice Iffen.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    No problem, remember that I did state that there was a narrow window to inquiry.

    Any other questions that I can clear up for you?
    , @AmericaFirstNow
    Former Israeli minister on anti-Semitic trick:

    "Anti-semitic, its a trick we always use it":

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0kWAqZxJVE
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  65. @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.

    __

    You are really dumb, sir. America is German occupied territory? OUR BOYS were killed in WWII because America was drawn into that war for the greater glory of Israel.

    Understand that today Israel is utterly dependent on the United States for money, arms and diplomatic support. One or two states share common enemies with Israel; a handful of countries buy its weapons; a few others are its de facto accomplices in ignoring international treaties and secretly manufacturing nuclear weapons. But outside Washington, Israel has no friends — at the United Nations it cannot even count on the support of America’s staunchest allies. Despite the political and diplomatic incompetence of the PLO [Palestine Liberation Organization]… ; despite the manifest shortcomings of the Arab world at large… ; despite Israel’s own sophisticated efforts to publicize its case, the Jewish state today is widely regarded as a — the — leading threat to world peace.

    What is emerging is a new bi-polar world, with the United States and Israel on one side, and the rest of the world on the other. This new alignment of forces, this shift in power relationships in the world, is strikingly reflected in the United Nations, where, time and time again, votes on issues in both the General Assembly and the Security Council pit the United States and Israel on one side, and virtually the entire rest of the world on the other.

    So go ahead, keep on with your backwards thinking… “german occupied territory” …such a fool.

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  66. Sam Shama says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I have two friends who used to work in Hong Kong who include 88 in their email addresses. For good luck I think.

    Interestingly, a Jewish custom when gifting money for a Bar Mitzvah or a wedding, the number 8 features prominently. It could be a multiple of 18, or a repetition of it, or written in reverse order. So $18, $180, $1818 or even $1881 would work.

    Just another example of Jewish appropriation, some might say.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    The Hebrew word for life is numerically equivalent to 18.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    A bit of appropriation is OK by those who provided the material for the KJV and the Cranmer (and 1662) C of E Book of Common Prayer.
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  67. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    I doubt that you or most of your commenters can see it, but a problem in gaining support for an “impartial investigation” into the Liberty incident is lost in a sea of anti-Semitic touchstones like support for BDS, railing against the influence of the Lobby(?)/lobby, Alison Weir types, “faux” inquiries, etc. It is just one more bead on a string for you; just one more piece of the Jewspiracy puzzle. If a person, such as myself, was inclined to make a serious effort to gain further understanding of the incident, they would have to overcome the obstacles placed in the way by all the 88s who use this incident the same way that they use their “concern” for the Palestinians.

    If a person, such as myself, was inclined to make a serious effort to gain further understanding of the incident, they would have to overcome the obstacles placed in the way by all the 88s

    I fail to understand how any of their “efforts” could possibly pose a hurdle for you to research into the proceedings of the U.S.S. Liberty ignominy.

    So, it’s true, y’all do stick together.

    purposely chosen, and therefore it seems in my sample, Jews are not overly tuned into the threats from white supremacists.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    I fail to understand how any of their “efforts” could possibly pose a hurdle for you to research into the proceedings of the U.S.S. Liberty ignominy.

    True, bad construction on my part. I should have said obstacles, diversions and obfuscations rather than hurdles.
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  68. iffen says:
    @schmenz
    "Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise."

    Thank you for that ruling, Chief Justice Iffen.

    No problem, remember that I did state that there was a narrow window to inquiry.

    Any other questions that I can clear up for you?

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  69. Clyde says:
    @biz

    If the Jews were to leave our shores, there would be NO fight between America and Muslims – PERIOD.
     
    Lol, what is this, Salon.com?

    Whether you want it or not, Muslims have decided that you are their fight.

    Art is way way way out there. So much so that if anyone is getting paid by Tel Aviv Steve (Hasbara paymaster) it is him

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  70. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    Otherwise iffen seems upset by perfectly legitimate responses to Israeli war crimes and violations of international law.

    Sam the Lion: I've been around that trashy behavior all my life, I'm gettin' tired of puttin' up with it. Now you can stay out of this pool hall, out of my cafe, and my picture show too - I don't want no more of your business.

    Sophistry in action. Anti-Semitism masquerading as innocent inquiry, and not very cleverly.

    Why, oh why, did we have to take sides against Germany?

    Because we can see into the fucking future! We know how WWII turned out!

    Are you thinking that I am @Jus’ Sayin’ ? Not by a long shot. Ok now I understand what you mean’t by misdirection. Well blimey, I have been accused of the very same. Of course there are a few characters here who seem obsessively engaged in subterfuge [Art, e.g now thankfully in the rubbish bin]. I am just bored with the lack of interesting issues/puzzles.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    now I understand what you mean’t by misdirection

    I just mean that I keep that in mind when exchanging comments.

    Look, I don't have a settled opinion on whether 88s are a threat to you and your friends. Just forget about them if you want. I am pretty sure that they are not going to forget about you.
    , @iffen
    Since you use terms like ignominy and you say that there are no more puzzles, is it accurate to say that you accept the official explanation that the Liberty incident was a case of mistaken identification?
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  71. @Sam Shama
    Interestingly, a Jewish custom when gifting money for a Bar Mitzvah or a wedding, the number 8 features prominently. It could be a multiple of 18, or a repetition of it, or written in reverse order. So $18, $180, $1818 or even $1881 would work.

    Just another example of Jewish appropriation, some might say.

    The Hebrew word for life is numerically equivalent to 18.

    Read More
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  72. @Fran Macadam
    Sanders is Jewish and Trump's got Jewish in-laws. That should tell us that not all influential Jewish folk in America, particularly, are onboard with the wealthy donorist Likudnik class that strongarms policy with money. Nor are all those in Israel who are Jewish universally for the destructive policies under Netanyahu and his far-right coalition allies.

    Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation.

    “Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation.”

    Of course. The documents reveal the foundation of lies, perfidy, and degeneracy on which the Zionist entity is based.

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  73. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama

    If a person, such as myself, was inclined to make a serious effort to gain further understanding of the incident, they would have to overcome the obstacles placed in the way by all the 88s
     
    I fail to understand how any of their "efforts" could possibly pose a hurdle for you to research into the proceedings of the U.S.S. Liberty ignominy.

    So, it’s true, y’all do stick together.

    purposely chosen, and therefore it seems in my sample, Jews are not overly tuned into the threats from white supremacists.

    I fail to understand how any of their “efforts” could possibly pose a hurdle for you to research into the proceedings of the U.S.S. Liberty ignominy.

    True, bad construction on my part. I should have said obstacles, diversions and obfuscations rather than hurdles.

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  74. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    Are you thinking that I am @Jus' Sayin' ? Not by a long shot. Ok now I understand what you mean't by misdirection. Well blimey, I have been accused of the very same. Of course there are a few characters here who seem obsessively engaged in subterfuge [Art, e.g now thankfully in the rubbish bin]. I am just bored with the lack of interesting issues/puzzles.

    now I understand what you mean’t by misdirection

    I just mean that I keep that in mind when exchanging comments.

    Look, I don’t have a settled opinion on whether 88s are a threat to you and your friends. Just forget about them if you want. I am pretty sure that they are not going to forget about you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Noted and I am not forgetting anything, just happen to think that most of these blokes are frustrated and are simply venting on this forum [Peter Frost's imagery of Joe Webb, e.g. standing in front of a full length mirror in cowboy boots and hat (?) nudi in flagrante delicto, breathing fire!]
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  75. @biz
    Actually, that was remarkably cogent and not too far removed from the truth. Congrats.

    Studies have shown Ashkenazim to have around 85% male levantine ancestry according to Y-chromosome analysis, and around 40% female levantine ancestry according to Mt-DNA analysis. This averages out to something like 62% levantine.

    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is 'entitled' to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them. Also they absorbed so many Jews that were ethnically cleansed out of Muslim countries that those Mizrahi Jews now comprise a majority of Israelis, so your bleating about the Ashkenazim is irrelevant now anyway.

    This averages out to something like 62% levantine.

    Studies I’ve seen put the figure the other way around; about 40% middle eastern.

    Your argument seems to be that European and Asian Jewish colonizers have stolen the land fair and square from its original inhabitants. It’s the standard colonialist argument. For consistency’s sake will you hold to it when the land gets taken back. The demographics make that inevitable. The poor showing of the entire IDF against one Hezbolla brigade about ten years ago make it likely sooner rather than later.

    The result will be a catastrophe for world Jewry. A catastrophe brought on by equating Judaism with Zionism. It will be comparable to earlier catastrophes brought on by earlier false Jewish prophets, e.g., Simon bar Kokhbar, Sabati Xevi.

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    • Replies: @biz
    Nope, wrong. Jews did not steal the land and so-called 'Palestinian' Arabs are not its original inhabitants.

    The latter are descended in part from conquerors from the Arabian Peninsula who arrived with the Islamic conquest and in part from immigrants who arrived in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Nothing about their presence is original.

    The former are mostly descended from people who either
    a) purchased land from Ottomans fairly
    b) arrived as refugees after being ethnically cleansed by Arabs

    Also contrary to what you have asserted demographics do not make a re-conquest of the land by its former Palestinian Arab conquerors inevitable. On the contrary, the Arab fraction of Israel has stabilized at around 18%, and some of these are loyal Druze, Christians, and Bedouin. Muslim Arabs are around 13% and holding steady.

    , @Jimi Shmendrix
    So what would you do with Israelis like me (1/2 Ashkenazi 1/2 Syrian) or my kids (1/2 Yemenite)? Things aren't so cut and dried after all this time.
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  76. DaveE says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    “…..most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.”

    Maybe that’s true in YOUR world. But here in the real world, it’s all over but the shooting (and shouting) for the Israelites and it ain’t Mr. Giraldi who’s the loser.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    The Unfolding of Yinon’s “Zionist Plan for the Middle East”: The Crisis in Iraq and the Centrality of the National Interest of Israel:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2014/07/13/the-unfolding-of-yinons-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east-the-crisis-in-iraq-and-the-centrality-of-the-national-interest-of-israel/


    Clinton Email Shows US Sought Syria Regime Change for Israel’s Sake:

    Insisted Russia Wouldn’t Dare Interfere:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2016/03/22/clinton-email-shows-us-sought-syria-regime-change-for-israels-sake/

    Also fits with what James Morris mentioned on Russia Today as can be seen via scrolling to youtube at following URL:

    Israel Lobby Pushes for US Action Against the Syrian Government: James
    Morris Dares to Mention the Taboo History


    http://america-hijacked.com/2012/02/12/israel-lobby-pushes-for-us-action-against-the-syrian-government/
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  77. @DaveE
    ".....most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil."

    Maybe that's true in YOUR world. But here in the real world, it's all over but the shooting (and shouting) for the Israelites and it ain't Mr. Giraldi who's the loser.

    The Unfolding of Yinon’s “Zionist Plan for the Middle East”: The Crisis in Iraq and the Centrality of the National Interest of Israel:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2014/07/13/the-unfolding-of-yinons-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east-the-crisis-in-iraq-and-the-centrality-of-the-national-interest-of-israel/

    Clinton Email Shows US Sought Syria Regime Change for Israel’s Sake:

    Insisted Russia Wouldn’t Dare Interfere:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2016/03/22/clinton-email-shows-us-sought-syria-regime-change-for-israels-sake/

    Also fits with what James Morris mentioned on Russia Today as can be seen via scrolling to youtube at following URL:

    Israel Lobby Pushes for US Action Against the Syrian Government: James
    Morris Dares to Mention the Taboo History

    http://america-hijacked.com/2012/02/12/israel-lobby-pushes-for-us-action-against-the-syrian-government/

    Read More
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  78. Read More
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  79. @schmenz
    "Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise."

    Thank you for that ruling, Chief Justice Iffen.

    Former Israeli minister on anti-Semitic trick:

    “Anti-semitic, its a trick we always use it”:

    Read More
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  80. Phil has been speaking truth to power about the valiant little David State for so long that he must be inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism. There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty, perhaps out of fear that it was monitoring the execution of Egyptian p.o.w.s in the Sinai. Also that Israel and its accomplices in the diaspora engineered a coverup that continues to this day. No surprise that John McCain, the “war hero” who was bombing Vietnamese villages and then enjoyed a remarkably lenient captivity, is part of the coverup in Zionist-controlled Washington. Canute makes a good point. The Nazi massacre of the European Jews was a terrible crime, one of the very worst things that ever happened in the horror-filled history of Europe. Yet it is even more “ancient history” than the attack on the Liberty. I keep up with the news and political commentary, and I hear about the Holocaust literally every day of my life. “Never forget!”? I’m more likely to forget my own name than the saga of Jewish tribulation endlessly regurgitated by Hollywood and the other mass media.

    Read More
    • Agree: Jacques Sheete
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    More on traitor John McCain:

    John McCain: War Hero or Something Less?:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2013/05/30/john-mccain-war-hero-or-something-less-by-philip-giraldi/

    McCain serves his AIPAC/Neocon masters shown in following youtube:

    The Israel Lobby (AIPAC which Hillary Clinton panders to as well):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98

    Corrupt McCain takes Saudi money too:

    John McCain’s charity at Arizona State University accepted 1 million from Saudi Arabia government:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2016/04/05/john-mccains-charity-at-arizona-state-university-accepted-1-million-from-saudi-government/

    , @iffen
    inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism

    Which of the comments are smears of anti-Semitism, numbers please? Don’t use # 1 because I am not sure of what he is trying to say.

    There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty

    So that is the way it is done, you just declare that there is no doubt.

    the diaspora engineered a coverup

    Where is the cover-up? They admitted that they did it. The question is whether they did it intentionally.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    On the one hand weight should be put on the failure of Israel and the US to come clean on the Liberty if, nearly 50 years after the event, it would appear that knowledge of the Liberty's identity was only at a low level and didn't involve the Israeli government. It is hard not to conclude that it was an act of utter ruthlessness at a high level though I haven't heard a plausible explanation for why it would make sense for Israel to do it.

    Ah yes false flag theory does make sense.... Just note it..


    On the other hand I don't accept it as remotely reasonable to compare the Holocaust with the attack on the Liberty as you have. Test question: which would you prefer to be lodged in people's brains as something never to happen again but made possible by human nature so needing to be guarded against?

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  81. US media won’t convey truth because of following:

    Do Jews Dominate in American Media? And So What If We Do?
    :

    http://america-hijacked.com/2013/04/26/do-jews-dominate-in-american-media-and-so-what-if-we-do/

    Read More
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  82. biz says:
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    This averages out to something like 62% levantine.
     
    Studies I've seen put the figure the other way around; about 40% middle eastern.

    Your argument seems to be that European and Asian Jewish colonizers have stolen the land fair and square from its original inhabitants. It's the standard colonialist argument. For consistency's sake will you hold to it when the land gets taken back. The demographics make that inevitable. The poor showing of the entire IDF against one Hezbolla brigade about ten years ago make it likely sooner rather than later.

    The result will be a catastrophe for world Jewry. A catastrophe brought on by equating Judaism with Zionism. It will be comparable to earlier catastrophes brought on by earlier false Jewish prophets, e.g., Simon bar Kokhbar, Sabati Xevi.

    Nope, wrong. Jews did not steal the land and so-called ‘Palestinian’ Arabs are not its original inhabitants.

    The latter are descended in part from conquerors from the Arabian Peninsula who arrived with the Islamic conquest and in part from immigrants who arrived in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Nothing about their presence is original.

    The former are mostly descended from people who either
    a) purchased land from Ottomans fairly
    b) arrived as refugees after being ethnically cleansed by Arabs

    Also contrary to what you have asserted demographics do not make a re-conquest of the land by its former Palestinian Arab conquerors inevitable. On the contrary, the Arab fraction of Israel has stabilized at around 18%, and some of these are loyal Druze, Christians, and Bedouin. Muslim Arabs are around 13% and holding steady.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I think you are out of date on the "loyal" Bedouin. The Israeli government has pissed them off (probably leaving attention to them to low level lazy bureaucrats and dudding them over land) and now they are just breeding and living off welfare.
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  83. @Ralph Raico
    Phil has been speaking truth to power about the valiant little David State for so long that he must be inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism. There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty, perhaps out of fear that it was monitoring the execution of Egyptian p.o.w.s in the Sinai. Also that Israel and its accomplices in the diaspora engineered a coverup that continues to this day. No surprise that John McCain, the "war hero" who was bombing Vietnamese villages and then enjoyed a remarkably lenient captivity, is part of the coverup in Zionist-controlled Washington. Canute makes a good point. The Nazi massacre of the European Jews was a terrible crime, one of the very worst things that ever happened in the horror-filled history of Europe. Yet it is even more "ancient history" than the attack on the Liberty. I keep up with the news and political commentary, and I hear about the Holocaust literally every day of my life. "Never forget!"? I'm more likely to forget my own name than the saga of Jewish tribulation endlessly regurgitated by Hollywood and the other mass media.

    More on traitor John McCain:

    John McCain: War Hero or Something Less?:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2013/05/30/john-mccain-war-hero-or-something-less-by-philip-giraldi/

    McCain serves his AIPAC/Neocon masters shown in following youtube:

    The Israel Lobby (AIPAC which Hillary Clinton panders to as well):

    Corrupt McCain takes Saudi money too:

    John McCain’s charity at Arizona State University accepted 1 million from Saudi Arabia government:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2016/04/05/john-mccains-charity-at-arizona-state-university-accepted-1-million-from-saudi-government/

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Vietnam Veterans against John McCain

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=vFM1xqqTX_g
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  84. 5371 says:
    @biz
    Actually, that was remarkably cogent and not too far removed from the truth. Congrats.

    Studies have shown Ashkenazim to have around 85% male levantine ancestry according to Y-chromosome analysis, and around 40% female levantine ancestry according to Mt-DNA analysis. This averages out to something like 62% levantine.

    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is 'entitled' to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them. Also they absorbed so many Jews that were ethnically cleansed out of Muslim countries that those Mizrahi Jews now comprise a majority of Israelis, so your bleating about the Ashkenazim is irrelevant now anyway.

    Y-chromosome analysis can show no such thing. The best designed whole-genome analyses have failed to suggest any ancestral connection with Palestine.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    You are incorrect.

    Of the many studies, here are two:

    1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/
    From the abstract:
    "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population"

    2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/
    From the abstract:
    "A sample of 526 Y chromosomes representing six Middle Eastern populations (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Kurdish Jews from Israel; Muslim Kurds; Muslim Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Authority Area; and Bedouin from the Negev) was analyzed for 13 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly from Ashkenazi Jews."

    There are many more. Google is your friend.

    , @Wizard of Oz
    He said "Levantine" so why do you pretend to be contradicting by reference to "Palestine"? According to the Bible and more credible evidence the Hebrews were all over the Middle East from Abraham onewrds.
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  85. @Sherman
    You are 100% correct.

    Geraldi is a Holocaust denier who makes his living peddling hatred and conspiracy theories.

    At no point in his article does he mention a motive as to why Israel attacked the USS Liberty. At no point does he mention that Israeli pilots and ground control were stressed and exhausted from fighting a ferocious war. At no point does he mention that the USS Liberty was - by all accounts - in dangerous waters or that Israel warned foreign ships to stay out of this zone.

    Giraldi only cares about the victims of this tragedy only so far as he can exploit them to further his hate-filled agenda.

    Another Moishe Yidturd earning a few shekels today. Save it turd.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sherman
    I'm glad I earned my shekels. It proves I'm not on food stamps like you.
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  86. Jew running Federal Reserve and Wall Street responsible for following:

    Financial crash coming this year (by August?)

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/lXjDF0tzZpg

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Typo! Should be 'Jews'! Not 'Jew'.
    , @Sam Shama
    If you are so sure about this imminent crash, it does present an opportunity for you, does it not?
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  87. biz says:
    @5371
    Y-chromosome analysis can show no such thing. The best designed whole-genome analyses have failed to suggest any ancestral connection with Palestine.

    You are incorrect.

    Of the many studies, here are two:

    1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/
    From the abstract:
    “Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population”

    2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/
    From the abstract:
    “A sample of 526 Y chromosomes representing six Middle Eastern populations (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Kurdish Jews from Israel; Muslim Kurds; Muslim Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Authority Area; and Bedouin from the Negev) was analyzed for 13 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly from Ashkenazi Jews.”

    There are many more. Google is your friend.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    I said well designed whole-genome studies, not Y-chromosome refuse you just dredged up by googling.
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  88. Eric Margolis on C-SPAN about USS Liberty cover-up:

    Remember what Israel did to the USS Liberty and what our government did to us.

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  89. Rule #1–America is a sovereign nation with the right to conduct its affairs in such a way so that it accords with the interests of AMERICA, not those of a foreign nation.

    Rule#2–Israel is a foreign nation who presumably acts in such a way so that THEIR interests will be served, not those of America or any other country.

    Rule #3–The interests of Israel and those of America are not necessarily identical. If they happen to coincide at times, so much the better.

    Rule #4–If the interests of Israel and those of America clash————-see Rule #1.

    Would that more Jews in America took note of the above.

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  90. @5371
    Y-chromosome analysis can show no such thing. The best designed whole-genome analyses have failed to suggest any ancestral connection with Palestine.

    He said “Levantine” so why do you pretend to be contradicting by reference to “Palestine”? According to the Bible and more credible evidence the Hebrews were all over the Middle East from Abraham onewrds.

    Read More
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  91. @biz
    Nope, wrong. Jews did not steal the land and so-called 'Palestinian' Arabs are not its original inhabitants.

    The latter are descended in part from conquerors from the Arabian Peninsula who arrived with the Islamic conquest and in part from immigrants who arrived in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Nothing about their presence is original.

    The former are mostly descended from people who either
    a) purchased land from Ottomans fairly
    b) arrived as refugees after being ethnically cleansed by Arabs

    Also contrary to what you have asserted demographics do not make a re-conquest of the land by its former Palestinian Arab conquerors inevitable. On the contrary, the Arab fraction of Israel has stabilized at around 18%, and some of these are loyal Druze, Christians, and Bedouin. Muslim Arabs are around 13% and holding steady.

    I think you are out of date on the “loyal” Bedouin. The Israeli government has pissed them off (probably leaving attention to them to low level lazy bureaucrats and dudding them over land) and now they are just breeding and living off welfare.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    That's the Negev Bedouin. The Northern Bedouin are doing better. But yes, the Negev Bedouin are a problem now.
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  92. @Sam Shama
    Interestingly, a Jewish custom when gifting money for a Bar Mitzvah or a wedding, the number 8 features prominently. It could be a multiple of 18, or a repetition of it, or written in reverse order. So $18, $180, $1818 or even $1881 would work.

    Just another example of Jewish appropriation, some might say.

    A bit of appropriation is OK by those who provided the material for the KJV and the Cranmer (and 1662) C of E Book of Common Prayer.

    Read More
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  93. Sherman says:
    @ISmellBagels
    Another Moishe Yidturd earning a few shekels today. Save it turd.

    I’m glad I earned my shekels. It proves I’m not on food stamps like you.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    How about earning those shekels by providing the evidence that Giraldi is a Holocaust denier.
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  94. @AmericaFirstNow
    Jew running Federal Reserve and Wall Street responsible for following:

    Financial crash coming this year (by August?)

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/lXjDF0tzZpg

    Typo! Should be ‘Jews’! Not ‘Jew’.

    Read More
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  95. It was good of Giraldi to attend the LIBERTY commemoration event in Arlington National Cemetery. Naturally, there was no U.S. Government acknowledgment of, or attendance at, the event. Also, no news coverage. Hell, we can’t remind anyone that the Zionist darlings in Tel Aviv attacked a commissioned vessel of the United States Navy, now, can we?

    With “friends” like Israel, we sure as hell don’t need any enemies.

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    meanwhile, Mr. Cuomo, a man of 'easy virtue' in service of the Lobby gives the US Constitution a black eye: http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/debate_is_cuomos_crackdown_on_bds
    "New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has issued the first-ever executive order forcing state agencies to divest from any organizations aligned with the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement... Legal groups have declared the order unconstitutional and a form of "21st century McCarthyism."

    ROBERT FREEDMAN: "Well, I think the governor did the right thing. I would have preferred it to go through the Legislature, if possible. But because of the goals of BDS, which are particularly ugly, I think it was something that had to be done."
    In other words, when the US Constitution becomes an obstacle for the Lobby, than "something has to be done."

    "Flanked by AIPAC and Israeli consul, Cuomo signs anti-BDS order:" http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/flanked-israeli-consul/
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  96. iffen says:
    @biz
    Actually, that was remarkably cogent and not too far removed from the truth. Congrats.

    Studies have shown Ashkenazim to have around 85% male levantine ancestry according to Y-chromosome analysis, and around 40% female levantine ancestry according to Mt-DNA analysis. This averages out to something like 62% levantine.

    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is 'entitled' to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them. Also they absorbed so many Jews that were ethnically cleansed out of Muslim countries that those Mizrahi Jews now comprise a majority of Israelis, so your bleating about the Ashkenazim is irrelevant now anyway.

    In any case, none of this has anything to do with who is ‘entitled’ to Israel. Jews are entitled to Israel because they bought land there, developed the land and industries, declared independence, and defeated several military attempts to annihilate them.

    You might as well have written this in Linear A for all the understanding that it will get.

    Israel is a special nation state in more ways than one. In the instances here, the same rules that are applied to every nation state that exists, has existed or is coming into existence do not apply to only one nation, and that is Israel.

    But you know that.

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  97. @Neverforget
    Indeed, Philip and his tribe managed to abscond with the entirety of WWII.

    I recently had a conversation with a lady who was working for the Memory Project (Canadian initiative to catalog veterans stories) - she was lobbing me to contribute more money to the project. I responded that I felt nothing had been learned from these wars and my fathers contribution (WWII Sailor) was being dishonored by the slavish devotion to veterans without any understanding of war and it's consequences. She replied,

    "We went to war to save the Jews"
     
    I told her that Canada, at that time in history was indifferent to Jewish suffering. (In fact we sent Jewish refugees back to Europe in 1939.)

    Of the 80 to 90 million deaths (as a result of the second world war) only the jewish lives matter. Now that is the power of the Jewish Lobby, the theft of history.

    You are correct. The idea that FDR, Churchill or Stalin gave a (bleep) about ordinary Jews and went into WW2 to save the Jews is a most preposterous notion.

    It would be most interesting to ask the lady to provide evidence to support her beliefs.

    In fact, some Zionists collaborated with Nazis and I suspect that the Nazi-Zionist program to resettle Jews in Palestine added fuel to Churchill’s furor over Germany in general and Hitler in particular.

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  98. @Fran Macadam
    Sanders is Jewish and Trump's got Jewish in-laws. That should tell us that not all influential Jewish folk in America, particularly, are onboard with the wealthy donorist Likudnik class that strongarms policy with money. Nor are all those in Israel who are Jewish universally for the destructive policies under Netanyahu and his far-right coalition allies.

    Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation.

    Bernie Sanders still referred to the Mearsheimer/Walt ‘The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy’ book as ‘conspiracy theory (more than likely because he is a Jew too) and Trump took 100 million from Sheldon Adelson and wants to kill the Iran Deal for Israel as well! So don’t get your hopes up about Trump being much different!

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  99. Art says:

    The site resident Jews are all hopped up today.

    Muslims killing Americans is manna to them.

    This is like 9/11 II.

    p.s. In Israel, 9/11 is a new national holiday.

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  100. Rehmat says:
    @Neverforget
    Indeed, Philip and his tribe managed to abscond with the entirety of WWII.

    I recently had a conversation with a lady who was working for the Memory Project (Canadian initiative to catalog veterans stories) - she was lobbing me to contribute more money to the project. I responded that I felt nothing had been learned from these wars and my fathers contribution (WWII Sailor) was being dishonored by the slavish devotion to veterans without any understanding of war and it's consequences. She replied,

    "We went to war to save the Jews"
     
    I told her that Canada, at that time in history was indifferent to Jewish suffering. (In fact we sent Jewish refugees back to Europe in 1939.)

    Of the 80 to 90 million deaths (as a result of the second world war) only the jewish lives matter. Now that is the power of the Jewish Lobby, the theft of history.

    In case you didn’t notice – Canada has long become a Zionist Jewish colony like the US, UK, France, Australia and Germany.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/06/14/canada-iran-to-pay-13-million-to-victims-of-israeli-terrorism/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Neverforget
    Canada is a strange world, we have a narcissistic self appraisal of ourselves – our freedoms, our decency, our human rights, we are everything that America is not – but if one looks underneath the surface the reality is quite different – I recently crossed the boarder from America to my home in eastern Canada, without my passport – this created a situation for myself, wherein I actually feared for my personal safety. Canadian boarder guards were screaming at me, physically accosting me and for the most part taking away all agency over my life. I have crossed boarders in many different countries, I was always treated well and was never afraid for my personal safety, in my home country, a very different experience. I found out soon after, I have no rights and the guards can do as they please. Compliance to authority is of the utmost importance – according to our highest court.

    That said, you are correct, Canada is an occupied nation – Harper, our last leader, belongs to the Alliance Church - the church’s doctrinal statements hew to the line that through the destruction of Israel is their salvation.

    Harper was an advisor to Preston Manning in the nineteen eighties ( Preston Manning’s father was leader of the Social Credit Party in Alberta – An anti-semitic organization, until the end of WWII)

    Another notable character in Canadian politics is Stockwell Day, whose father was a friend to Jim Keegstra - a schoolteacher in a small backwater town of about 700 people. Jim Keegsta was demonized in the 1980s during Israel’s horrific invasion of Lebanon. Keegsta’s case was a cause célèbre and effectively distracted from Israel’s crimes in the Middle East and gave comfort to Israeli interests.

    Fast-forward to December 13, 2002, the Zionist owned media (Izzy Asper) did a hit peace on David Ahenakew, (First Nations Leader from Saskatchewan) accusing him of spreading hate speech, (the conversation was private, between himself and a reporter) The government revoked his Order of Canada Medal and the poor man died in disgrace. This incident, like the Keegsrta case, was a warning to those who would question Israeli motivations and crimes. Many Canadians did not support the second war in Iraq and knowledgeable commentators were accusing the Americans of going to war for Israeli interests. This and several other incidents chilled any conversation regarding the real motivation for Iraqi War II.

    However, our current prime Minister is promising - his brother Alexandre Trudeau is a reporter who has a decidedly more realistic perspective on Israel. The Zionist media is having a fit over this brotherly connection and are attacking Alexandre’s character. This is illustrated by an obvious hit piece in the Huffington Post in 2012.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/mike-fegelman/alexandre-trudeau_b_2018038.html

    This isn't Trudeau's first offense. In 2004, he produced The Fence a totally unbalanced view of life on the Israeli and Arab sides of Israel's security barrier favouring the Palestinian narrative. In the same production he profiled Zakaria Zubeidi, then leader of the terrorist group Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades portraying him as a Robin Hood-like "leader of the resistance." He never once told viewers that Zubeidi's organization had murdered Arabs, Israeli Jews and foreigners, including a Canadian citizen killed in a bus bombing. Trudeau is also known for his offering public praise for Fidel Castro and for his criticism of the Israeli naval blockade of the Hamas-held Gaza Strip. Zubeidi's organization had murdered Arabs, Israeli Jews and foreigners, including a Canadian citizen killed in a bus bombing. Trudeau is also known for his offering public praise for Fidel Castro and for his criticism of the Israeli naval blockade of the Hamas-held Gaza Strip.

     

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  101. @Anonymous
    At least 48% European, more probably somewhere in the 50-60% range.

    Hi

    Is that Greg Cochran there missing the “o” with thumb on smartphone?

    I shall have to resume my skirmish of 10 years ago wherein I insisted on the theoretical possiblity and likely reality of Ashkenazi IQ having risen partly because of dumb Jewish males not breeding (or at least not ss Jews) – at which you scoffed.

    Anyway I can go on calling my rabbi friend who told me that there were Jews in the Rhineland before there were Germans “cousin”.

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  102. iffen says:
    @Sherman
    I'm glad I earned my shekels. It proves I'm not on food stamps like you.

    How about earning those shekels by providing the evidence that Giraldi is a Holocaust denier.

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  103. @iffen
    I am self-certified as neutral on the Israel problem. 88s can fuck off.

    There is a distinction to be made between “innocent inquiry” as to ascertaining “the Truth” and inquiry intended as sophistry. You may not care about the difference, I do.

    It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.

    On a related note, there is an extremely narrow window of inquiry into the “reality” of the Holocaust that does not derive from anti-Semitism. IOW, Holocaust deniers are anti-Semitic unless proven otherwise.

    The problem is you give no help in determining the all important underlying motivation so one’s personality – paranoid or the opposite – is likely to dominate.

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    • Replies: @Art

    The problem is you give no help in determining the all important underlying motivation so one’s personality – paranoid or the opposite – is likely to dominate.
     
    To whom it may concern,

    Hmm – do iffen and Wiz say extra stupid things (like the above) in order to maintain the façade that they are not Jews?

    Just asking ---- Art
    , @iffen
    What do you want?

    I gave you a good rule of thumb.

    Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites.
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  104. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    Are you thinking that I am @Jus' Sayin' ? Not by a long shot. Ok now I understand what you mean't by misdirection. Well blimey, I have been accused of the very same. Of course there are a few characters here who seem obsessively engaged in subterfuge [Art, e.g now thankfully in the rubbish bin]. I am just bored with the lack of interesting issues/puzzles.

    Since you use terms like ignominy and you say that there are no more puzzles, is it accurate to say that you accept the official explanation that the Liberty incident was a case of mistaken identification?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    BREAKING!!!!!

    Fox Jews has convicted the wife of the killer terrorist.

    Megyn Kelly is demanding hanging before midnight!

    Jews say 6:00 AM.

    Sorry Megyn.
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  105. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    The problem is you give no help in determining the all important underlying motivation so one's personality - paranoid or the opposite - is likely to dominate.

    The problem is you give no help in determining the all important underlying motivation so one’s personality – paranoid or the opposite – is likely to dominate.

    To whom it may concern,

    Hmm – do iffen and Wiz say extra stupid things (like the above) in order to maintain the façade that they are not Jews?

    Just asking —- Art

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  106. iffen says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    The problem is you give no help in determining the all important underlying motivation so one's personality - paranoid or the opposite - is likely to dominate.

    What do you want?

    I gave you a good rule of thumb.

    Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    "Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites."

    Does that include Jewish and Palestinians and their supporters who question aspects of the thing?

    Explain.

    I've criticized and questioned plenty of goyim. Am I anti-Goy? Why or why not? If so, are anti-Goyim to be condemned or not?

    Explain.
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  107. annamaria says:
    @Orville H. Larson
    It was good of Giraldi to attend the LIBERTY commemoration event in Arlington National Cemetery. Naturally, there was no U.S. Government acknowledgment of, or attendance at, the event. Also, no news coverage. Hell, we can't remind anyone that the Zionist darlings in Tel Aviv attacked a commissioned vessel of the United States Navy, now, can we?

    With "friends" like Israel, we sure as hell don't need any enemies.

    meanwhile, Mr. Cuomo, a man of ‘easy virtue’ in service of the Lobby gives the US Constitution a black eye: http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/debate_is_cuomos_crackdown_on_bds
    “New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has issued the first-ever executive order forcing state agencies to divest from any organizations aligned with the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement… Legal groups have declared the order unconstitutional and a form of “21st century McCarthyism.”

    ROBERT FREEDMAN: “Well, I think the governor did the right thing. I would have preferred it to go through the Legislature, if possible. But because of the goals of BDS, which are particularly ugly, I think it was something that had to be done.”
    In other words, when the US Constitution becomes an obstacle for the Lobby, than “something has to be done.”

    “Flanked by AIPAC and Israeli consul, Cuomo signs anti-BDS order:” http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/flanked-israeli-consul/

    Read More
    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
    Piss on Andrew Cuomo, that two-bit-assed political hack. And piss on AIPAC.
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  108. biz says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I think you are out of date on the "loyal" Bedouin. The Israeli government has pissed them off (probably leaving attention to them to low level lazy bureaucrats and dudding them over land) and now they are just breeding and living off welfare.

    That’s the Negev Bedouin. The Northern Bedouin are doing better. But yes, the Negev Bedouin are a problem now.

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    • Replies: @Art
    That’s the Negev Bedouin. The Northern Bedouin are doing better. But yes, the Negev Bedouin are a problem now.

    biz Mordecai the Jew says "not a good time to be a Negev Bedouin."

    What does this mean for them?
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  109. iffen says:
    @Ralph Raico
    Phil has been speaking truth to power about the valiant little David State for so long that he must be inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism. There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty, perhaps out of fear that it was monitoring the execution of Egyptian p.o.w.s in the Sinai. Also that Israel and its accomplices in the diaspora engineered a coverup that continues to this day. No surprise that John McCain, the "war hero" who was bombing Vietnamese villages and then enjoyed a remarkably lenient captivity, is part of the coverup in Zionist-controlled Washington. Canute makes a good point. The Nazi massacre of the European Jews was a terrible crime, one of the very worst things that ever happened in the horror-filled history of Europe. Yet it is even more "ancient history" than the attack on the Liberty. I keep up with the news and political commentary, and I hear about the Holocaust literally every day of my life. "Never forget!"? I'm more likely to forget my own name than the saga of Jewish tribulation endlessly regurgitated by Hollywood and the other mass media.

    inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism

    Which of the comments are smears of anti-Semitism, numbers please? Don’t use # 1 because I am not sure of what he is trying to say.

    There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty

    So that is the way it is done, you just declare that there is no doubt.

    the diaspora engineered a coverup

    Where is the cover-up? They admitted that they did it. The question is whether they did it intentionally.

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    • Replies: @Art

    inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism

    Which of the comments are smears of anti-Semitism, numbers please? Don’t use # 1 because I am not sure of what he is trying to say.
     
    To whom it may concern,

    iffen now uses the derogatory term “88’s”. This means Nazis. He calls use Nazis these days – what a guy – a non-Jew to boot (lol).

    “Anti-Semitic” is no longer getting the desired reaction from the folks. Who cares?

    Poor iffen boy.

    Art

    p.s. Crying wolf only lasts so long.
    , @annamaria
    You really do not know how and "where is the cover-up?

    This is how the Lobby does it:
    1. “Flanked by AIPAC and Israeli consul, Cuomo signs anti-BDS order:” http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/flanked-israeli-consul/

    2. "Professor’s Angry Tweets on Gaza Cost Him a Job:" http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/world/middleeast/professors-angry-tweets-on-gaza-cost-him-a-job.html?_r=0

    3. "On the Death of Helen Thomas:" https://consortiumnews.com/2013/07/22/on-the-death-of-helen-thomas/

    4. "Why is Norman Finkelstein Not Allowed to Teach?" http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/finkelstein.html

    and more....
    , @annamaria
    Here is also an example of how the Lobby operates against "undesirables" in the US government: "Freeman hits 'Israel lobby' on way out:" http://www.politico.com/story/2009/03/freeman-hits-israel-lobby-on-way-out-019856
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  110. Art says:
    @iffen
    Since you use terms like ignominy and you say that there are no more puzzles, is it accurate to say that you accept the official explanation that the Liberty incident was a case of mistaken identification?

    BREAKING!!!!!

    Fox Jews has convicted the wife of the killer terrorist.

    Megyn Kelly is demanding hanging before midnight!

    Jews say 6:00 AM.

    Sorry Megyn.

    Read More
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  111. @iffen
    What do you want?

    I gave you a good rule of thumb.

    Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites.

    “Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites.”

    Does that include Jewish and Palestinians and their supporters who question aspects of the thing?

    Explain.

    I’ve criticized and questioned plenty of goyim. Am I anti-Goy? Why or why not? If so, are anti-Goyim to be condemned or not?

    Explain.

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    • Replies: @Fran Macadam
    I've found that neither people who have genuine grievances, will acknowledge that of the other, for fear it diminishes their own.
    , @iffen
    aspects of the thing?

    Not sure what the "thing" is.

    Am I anti-Goy?

    Not sure anti-goy is a thing.

    Simple and straight-forward; if you are a Holocaust denier, then you are an anti-Semite.
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  112. @Fran Macadam
    Sanders is Jewish and Trump's got Jewish in-laws. That should tell us that not all influential Jewish folk in America, particularly, are onboard with the wealthy donorist Likudnik class that strongarms policy with money. Nor are all those in Israel who are Jewish universally for the destructive policies under Netanyahu and his far-right coalition allies.

    Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation.

    Not that we’re not as capable and culpable. I read that some of the Clinton email server evidence is to be suppressed for 75 years. Someone who doesn’t want to be tried before they’re ninety? :-)

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  113. @Jacques Sheete
    "Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites."

    Does that include Jewish and Palestinians and their supporters who question aspects of the thing?

    Explain.

    I've criticized and questioned plenty of goyim. Am I anti-Goy? Why or why not? If so, are anti-Goyim to be condemned or not?

    Explain.

    I’ve found that neither people who have genuine grievances, will acknowledge that of the other, for fear it diminishes their own.

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    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    That's certainly a part of the answer.
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  114. iffen says:
    @Jacques Sheete
    "Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites."

    Does that include Jewish and Palestinians and their supporters who question aspects of the thing?

    Explain.

    I've criticized and questioned plenty of goyim. Am I anti-Goy? Why or why not? If so, are anti-Goyim to be condemned or not?

    Explain.

    aspects of the thing?

    Not sure what the “thing” is.

    Am I anti-Goy?

    Not sure anti-goy is a thing.

    Simple and straight-forward; if you are a Holocaust denier, then you are an anti-Semite.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Not a bad rule of thumb if you have to decided on the spot whether he/she is an anti-Semite. But I would be inclined to put them in other classes with equal probability (non-exclusive I suppose). E.g. the away with the pixies type who obsesses about aliens, flying saucers etc. and/or the type who in his innocence doesn't really see anything so he understands how it could be really important to others or objectively. So, if you found your 15 year old nephew who knows no Jews having got excited by someone's big brother adding the Holocaust to the list of good hoaxes he had come across..... so... yes, a good starting point in most cases but.....
    , @Jacques Sheete
    Hey Iffen, you said,"Not sure anti-goy is a thing." Well, sorry, but it turns out there is such a thing and Saker mentions why in an article just this AM. Cool, eh?


    “Likewise, anti-Semitism is a universally accepted notion, but goy-hatred is not. These are just two amongst many other such ‘one-way mental blocks”…Friends, this is not a coincidence. This is a *system* designed to make us all stupid and gullible.”

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-orlando-massacre-the-lies-the-exploitation-and-unasked-questions/

    With some of us the system failed, while with others....! ;)

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  115. anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    Serious question Phil . Do you think about jews 24/7 . I mean is there even a few moments in your day when jews do not occupy your mind ? Even when you sleep are your dreams ( nightmares ) 100% jew dreams every night. 99.87% of the time ??

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    • Replies: @5371
    How large a portion do "anti-semites" occupy of your own mind and dreams?
    , @annamaria
    You mean, the US should close the eyes and "think of England" while the US resources are burnt in the Middle East and the US Constitution is under attack from the "chosen?" Could you tell Krystols and Kagans to close their dirty mouths and stop inciting for more wars, day after day? Enough already. It is not for nothing that the Lobby and its supporters are called "Israel-firsters." Their loyalty is not to the US and American people but to their "promised land" and "chosen people." Giraldy is a patriot of the USA. Whats is your grievance about? - that Giraldy cares about his country that has been abused by the unprincipled tribe?
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  116. Art says:
    @iffen
    inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism

    Which of the comments are smears of anti-Semitism, numbers please? Don’t use # 1 because I am not sure of what he is trying to say.

    There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty

    So that is the way it is done, you just declare that there is no doubt.

    the diaspora engineered a coverup

    Where is the cover-up? They admitted that they did it. The question is whether they did it intentionally.

    inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism

    Which of the comments are smears of anti-Semitism, numbers please? Don’t use # 1 because I am not sure of what he is trying to say.

    To whom it may concern,

    iffen now uses the derogatory term “88’s”. This means Nazis. He calls use Nazis these days – what a guy – a non-Jew to boot (lol).

    “Anti-Semitic” is no longer getting the desired reaction from the folks. Who cares?

    Poor iffen boy.

    Art

    p.s. Crying wolf only lasts so long.

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  117. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    now I understand what you mean’t by misdirection

    I just mean that I keep that in mind when exchanging comments.

    Look, I don't have a settled opinion on whether 88s are a threat to you and your friends. Just forget about them if you want. I am pretty sure that they are not going to forget about you.

    Noted and I am not forgetting anything, just happen to think that most of these blokes are frustrated and are simply venting on this forum [Peter Frost's imagery of Joe Webb, e.g. standing in front of a full length mirror in cowboy boots and hat (?) nudi in flagrante delicto, breathing fire!]

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Well, I missed that Peter Frost imagery. I had Joe Webb on CTI for a while, but took him off and have learned a thing or two from considering his comments. I think he must have smoked or dropped way too much of the God's nectars. Please respond to my #104.
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  118. Art says:
    @biz
    That's the Negev Bedouin. The Northern Bedouin are doing better. But yes, the Negev Bedouin are a problem now.

    That’s the Negev Bedouin. The Northern Bedouin are doing better. But yes, the Negev Bedouin are a problem now.

    biz Mordecai the Jew says “not a good time to be a Negev Bedouin.”

    What does this mean for them?

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    One of the problems seems to date back to the pre WW1 Ottoman rule under which only a very small fraction of the land was owned privately. So the formerly nomadic Bedouin found themselves squatting on land which they hadn't either bought or leased from the Israeli government as successor to the Ottoman government. Eventually the government got round to planning its use and that meant evictions....
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  119. An Israeli patrol plane spotted and identified the Liberty the morning of the attack. An intelligence officer did the identification. An American spy ship. The IDF has never revealed how far up the chain of command that identification was reported. That is important because hours later, when the attack took place, the IDF command said it had no knowledge of the American ship.

    American spy ships go where the Russians are. It would have been very important for IDF commanders to be told the Russians were in the vicinity of the Sinai while Israel was fighting its ally Egypt.

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    • Replies: @Ace
    It's been a while since I read Innes's original book but I don't remember any reconnaissance a/c encountering the Liberty after the first plane. If that's true, the later attack took place only because of that identification. The identification went up the chain to the Israeli officers who ordered the strike on the Liberty. They knew it was a U.S. ship. If the later observation was not based on that original report but, say, from a radar contact, the later observation was made by Israeli pilots who had the same opportunity to ID the ship as the first plane. Ergo, their own observation was sufficient to ID the ship.

    Since the official Israeli version was that their pilots -- all of the attacking pilots -- mistakenly identified the Liberty as an Egyptian horse transport. Not one of the pilots, supposedly, noticed the American flag on the ship. Then you have to believe that the Israeli jets were so worried about a horse transport that they made a sustained attack on the Liberty and that Israeli torpedo boats were also called in to destroy this high-value target and that it was necessary to machine gun the sailors trying to lower boats into the water. The diversion of such high-value Israeli assets and the launch of one very expensive torpedo at a time when Israel had much bigger fish to fry makes the "misidentification" nonsense hard to swallow.

    And we know that one of the Israeli pilots objected to firing on an American ship but was ordered to do so anyway, IIRC.

    Plus the markings on the Israeli fighters were covered up. Is that something nations do when their planes are engaged in routine combat operations?

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  120. Sam Shama says:
    @AmericaFirstNow
    Jew running Federal Reserve and Wall Street responsible for following:

    Financial crash coming this year (by August?)

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/lXjDF0tzZpg

    If you are so sure about this imminent crash, it does present an opportunity for you, does it not?

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  121. I think you have to understand the six day war to understand the attack on the Liberty. The war was a pretext designed to enable Israel to take the West Bank from Jordan. Security wise Israel had a very good setup where Jordan controlled the West Bank. Jordan kept the peace. And it was integrating Palestinians into Jordan. Palestinians had half the seat in the Jordanian parliament at the time. There were very few attacks by Palestinians on Israelis in the years leading up to the war.

    But Israel wanted/needed the land. I think it was planning the war years in advance. It needed as much secrecy as possible to attack the West Bank and blame it on Jordan. They had to attack the Liberty to get it out of the area.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    At what point after the first hostilities of the war was the Liberty attacked? Consistently with your account it would have had to be almost immediately. Was it? Or don't you know that vital detail?
    , @Anonymous
    Israel Beggged Jordan NOT to enter the War.
    Israel immediately offered back said territories in exchange for mere recognition.
    Arabs Refused in Aug '67.
    See 'Khartoum three nos'.

    Only thus and incredibly slowly, 'occupation'.

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  122. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    Noted and I am not forgetting anything, just happen to think that most of these blokes are frustrated and are simply venting on this forum [Peter Frost's imagery of Joe Webb, e.g. standing in front of a full length mirror in cowboy boots and hat (?) nudi in flagrante delicto, breathing fire!]

    Well, I missed that Peter Frost imagery. I had Joe Webb on CTI for a while, but took him off and have learned a thing or two from considering his comments. I think he must have smoked or dropped way too much of the God’s nectars. Please respond to my #104.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    On this matter, I am rather inclined to agree with Ron Unz [read the now fully disclosed transcripts from the pilots [even with many lines redacted] ]

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/#comment-972614
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  123. Not sure what the “thing” is.

    Use your imagination. Or read the sentence of yours I was referring to. (Hint: The subject was “The” holocaust, as in, “Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites.”

    “Simple and straight-forward; if you are a Holocaust denier, then you are an anti-Semite.”

    Meh. Simple minded at best.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Meh. Simple minded at best.

    Au contraire, not all Holocaust deniers are simple minded.
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  124. I note particularly legislation currently working its way through Congress that will make it illegal for any federal funding to go to any entity that supports the Boycott, Divest and Sanction movement, better known as BDS.

    It’d be amusing to get Planned Parenthood on board with BDS and watch the gyrations on the Left.

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  125. @Fran Macadam
    I've found that neither people who have genuine grievances, will acknowledge that of the other, for fear it diminishes their own.

    That’s certainly a part of the answer.

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  126. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Hasbara troll. The Israeli's must be paying by the word now.

    And the new Israeli argument seems to be, "This happened so long ago; let's just forget about it," I'll make a deal with you: I'll forget about the Liberty when I never hear another peep from any Jew about the Holocaust.

    So what if somebody makes a buck? I fully believe in everything I say. However, this is time of my life, so I do need to be compensated. It’s not much, and it doesn’t come from Israel. $2,000 a month for 5 hours per week, but it’s from the comfort of home. Nobody going to get rich off doing it or quit their day job, so it’s not like we would lie for chump change.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    $2,000 a month for 5 hours per week

    WTF, I asked for $2,000 and they Jewed me down to $1,500.

    Just for that, have at it Art!
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  127. Max Payne says:

    I don’t usually believe in false flags, but when I read up on the USS Liberty I can’t help but pause for a minute.

    If only the Star of David wasn’t covered up. Then the whole thing would have blown away as a mistake of war.

    What bothers me is that the Americans were about to strike Cairo (some even say with tactical nuclear weapons) as retaliation until they found out Israel did it. Of course…. no retaliation was ever planned against Israel once the TRUTH was found out.

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  128. @annamaria
    meanwhile, Mr. Cuomo, a man of 'easy virtue' in service of the Lobby gives the US Constitution a black eye: http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/debate_is_cuomos_crackdown_on_bds
    "New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has issued the first-ever executive order forcing state agencies to divest from any organizations aligned with the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement... Legal groups have declared the order unconstitutional and a form of "21st century McCarthyism."

    ROBERT FREEDMAN: "Well, I think the governor did the right thing. I would have preferred it to go through the Legislature, if possible. But because of the goals of BDS, which are particularly ugly, I think it was something that had to be done."
    In other words, when the US Constitution becomes an obstacle for the Lobby, than "something has to be done."

    "Flanked by AIPAC and Israeli consul, Cuomo signs anti-BDS order:" http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/flanked-israeli-consul/

    Piss on Andrew Cuomo, that two-bit-assed political hack. And piss on AIPAC.

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  129. Art says:

    AmericaFirstNow:
    Jew running Federal Reserve and Wall Street responsible for following:

    Financial crash coming this year (by August?)

    Sam:
    If you are so sure about this imminent crash, it does present an opportunity for you, does it not?

    To whom it may concern,

    Here we see the Jew mind at work.

    The Gentile is concerned about 300 million people — the Jew is concerned about himself.

    Art

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  130. anon says: • Disclaimer
    @Tom Welsh
    " Inevitably, Israel’s well connected friends began to complain".

    I would like to have heard how, exactly, they worded their complaints. "We insist that you stop publicizing the murderous terrorism of the Israeli government and the US government's complicity with it"?

    Money talks sport.

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  131. anon says: • Disclaimer

    With a “friend” like Israel, America doesn’t need any enemies.

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  132. 5371 says:
    @biz
    You are incorrect.

    Of the many studies, here are two:

    1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC18733/
    From the abstract:
    "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. Admixture estimates suggested low levels of European Y-chromosome gene flow into Ashkenazi and Roman Jewish communities. A multidimensional scaling plot placed six of the seven Jewish populations in a relatively tight cluster that was interspersed with Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations, including Palestinians and Syrians. Pairwise differentiation tests further indicated that these Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations were not statistically different. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population"

    2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/
    From the abstract:
    "A sample of 526 Y chromosomes representing six Middle Eastern populations (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Kurdish Jews from Israel; Muslim Kurds; Muslim Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Authority Area; and Bedouin from the Negev) was analyzed for 13 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly from Ashkenazi Jews."

    There are many more. Google is your friend.

    I said well designed whole-genome studies, not Y-chromosome refuse you just dredged up by googling.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I've never heard a geneticist suggest you need more than the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA to know where a person's ancestors originated. What more will you get out of a whole genome study that is relevant. BTW, if it was Greg Cochran giving the 48 per cent figure for Ashkenazi European ancestry then I would regard him as authoritative even if it conflates the male and female lines in a single figure.
    , @biz
    You're grasping at straws now and it shows. When speaking of a population, Y-chromosome analysis is sufficient to establish the founding male population, and Mt-DNA analysis is sufficient to establish the founding female population.
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  133. 5371 says:
    @anonymous
    Serious question Phil . Do you think about jews 24/7 . I mean is there even a few moments in your day when jews do not occupy your mind ? Even when you sleep are your dreams ( nightmares ) 100% jew dreams every night. 99.87% of the time ??

    How large a portion do “anti-semites” occupy of your own mind and dreams?

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  134. @iffen
    aspects of the thing?

    Not sure what the "thing" is.

    Am I anti-Goy?

    Not sure anti-goy is a thing.

    Simple and straight-forward; if you are a Holocaust denier, then you are an anti-Semite.

    Not a bad rule of thumb if you have to decided on the spot whether he/she is an anti-Semite. But I would be inclined to put them in other classes with equal probability (non-exclusive I suppose). E.g. the away with the pixies type who obsesses about aliens, flying saucers etc. and/or the type who in his innocence doesn’t really see anything so he understands how it could be really important to others or objectively. So, if you found your 15 year old nephew who knows no Jews having got excited by someone’s big brother adding the Holocaust to the list of good hoaxes he had come across….. so… yes, a good starting point in most cases but…..

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  135. @5371
    I said well designed whole-genome studies, not Y-chromosome refuse you just dredged up by googling.

    I’ve never heard a geneticist suggest you need more than the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA to know where a person’s ancestors originated. What more will you get out of a whole genome study that is relevant. BTW, if it was Greg Cochran giving the 48 per cent figure for Ashkenazi European ancestry then I would regard him as authoritative even if it conflates the male and female lines in a single figure.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    How many great-grandparents did you have, Wiz? Two, or eight? I'll leave the rest of what was to be my comment as an exercise for the reader.
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  136. @Art
    That’s the Negev Bedouin. The Northern Bedouin are doing better. But yes, the Negev Bedouin are a problem now.

    biz Mordecai the Jew says "not a good time to be a Negev Bedouin."

    What does this mean for them?

    One of the problems seems to date back to the pre WW1 Ottoman rule under which only a very small fraction of the land was owned privately. So the formerly nomadic Bedouin found themselves squatting on land which they hadn’t either bought or leased from the Israeli government as successor to the Ottoman government. Eventually the government got round to planning its use and that meant evictions….

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    • Replies: @Art
    Eventually the government got round to planning its use (Bedouin land) and that meant evictions….

    Wiz,

    Oh - I see - as the Israeli take the land, they are building new homes for the Bedouin - RIGHT!

    Art
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  137. @AmericaFirstNow
    More on traitor John McCain:

    John McCain: War Hero or Something Less?:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2013/05/30/john-mccain-war-hero-or-something-less-by-philip-giraldi/

    McCain serves his AIPAC/Neocon masters shown in following youtube:

    The Israel Lobby (AIPAC which Hillary Clinton panders to as well):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98

    Corrupt McCain takes Saudi money too:

    John McCain’s charity at Arizona State University accepted 1 million from Saudi Arabia government:

    http://america-hijacked.com/2016/04/05/john-mccains-charity-at-arizona-state-university-accepted-1-million-from-saudi-government/

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  138. @Ralph Raico
    Phil has been speaking truth to power about the valiant little David State for so long that he must be inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism. There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty, perhaps out of fear that it was monitoring the execution of Egyptian p.o.w.s in the Sinai. Also that Israel and its accomplices in the diaspora engineered a coverup that continues to this day. No surprise that John McCain, the "war hero" who was bombing Vietnamese villages and then enjoyed a remarkably lenient captivity, is part of the coverup in Zionist-controlled Washington. Canute makes a good point. The Nazi massacre of the European Jews was a terrible crime, one of the very worst things that ever happened in the horror-filled history of Europe. Yet it is even more "ancient history" than the attack on the Liberty. I keep up with the news and political commentary, and I hear about the Holocaust literally every day of my life. "Never forget!"? I'm more likely to forget my own name than the saga of Jewish tribulation endlessly regurgitated by Hollywood and the other mass media.

    On the one hand weight should be put on the failure of Israel and the US to come clean on the Liberty if, nearly 50 years after the event, it would appear that knowledge of the Liberty’s identity was only at a low level and didn’t involve the Israeli government. It is hard not to conclude that it was an act of utter ruthlessness at a high level though I haven’t heard a plausible explanation for why it would make sense for Israel to do it.

    Ah yes false flag theory does make sense…. Just note it..

    On the other hand I don’t accept it as remotely reasonable to compare the Holocaust with the attack on the Liberty as you have. Test question: which would you prefer to be lodged in people’s brains as something never to happen again but made possible by human nature so needing to be guarded against?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I mean i just noteD it - from another comment.
    , @iffen
    it would appear that knowledge of the Liberty’s identity was only at a low level and didn’t involve the Israeli government... though I haven’t heard a plausible explanation for why it would make sense for Israel to do it.

    Concealing troop movements by the IDF is a plausible explanation.

    The Liberty would report troop movements, the Soviets would intercept those reports and pass them on to Egypt and Syria.
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  139. @Wizard of Oz
    On the one hand weight should be put on the failure of Israel and the US to come clean on the Liberty if, nearly 50 years after the event, it would appear that knowledge of the Liberty's identity was only at a low level and didn't involve the Israeli government. It is hard not to conclude that it was an act of utter ruthlessness at a high level though I haven't heard a plausible explanation for why it would make sense for Israel to do it.

    Ah yes false flag theory does make sense.... Just note it..


    On the other hand I don't accept it as remotely reasonable to compare the Holocaust with the attack on the Liberty as you have. Test question: which would you prefer to be lodged in people's brains as something never to happen again but made possible by human nature so needing to be guarded against?

    I mean i just noteD it – from another comment.

    Read More
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  140. @Steve Richter
    I think you have to understand the six day war to understand the attack on the Liberty. The war was a pretext designed to enable Israel to take the West Bank from Jordan. Security wise Israel had a very good setup where Jordan controlled the West Bank. Jordan kept the peace. And it was integrating Palestinians into Jordan. Palestinians had half the seat in the Jordanian parliament at the time. There were very few attacks by Palestinians on Israelis in the years leading up to the war.

    But Israel wanted/needed the land. I think it was planning the war years in advance. It needed as much secrecy as possible to attack the West Bank and blame it on Jordan. They had to attack the Liberty to get it out of the area.

    At what point after the first hostilities of the war was the Liberty attacked? Consistently with your account it would have had to be almost immediately. Was it? Or don’t you know that vital detail?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Richter

    At what point after the first hostilities of the war was the Liberty attacked? Consistently with your account it would have had to be almost immediately. Was it? Or don’t you know that vital detail?
     
    I know the Liberty was attacked hours after it was spotted by the IDF. I am pretty sure it had arrived off the Sinai just recently. Was not there on June 5, when the war started.
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  141. @Jus' Sayin'...
    Ashkenaz mDNA is entirely European. Ashkenaz nuclear DNA has a contribution from male Jews who left Palestine well over two thousand years ago. I'd say most reasonable people would agree that Ashkenaz Jews are primarily of European descent. They differ significantly from all other Jews genotypically and phenotypically. For example, only Ashkenaz Jews show an average group intelligence higher than average and the genetic load that goes along with this, e.g. Tay-Sachs. Sephardic and other Jews have average or below average group IQ.

    Ashkenaz Jews are descended from male Jews in the diaspora of classical times who settled in Italy and married local Italian women around 2000 years ago. Descendants of this group migrated into more northern parts of Europe a bit over a thousand years ago. There was a major bottleneck around this time and modern Ashkenaz Jews appear to trace their ancestry back to a group of about 300-500 of these individuals. Apparently these males still intermarried with local women for some period. This is now accepted science that can be confirmed easily by an unbiased internet search or more fully by an examination of the relevant scientific literature.

    If you think this entitles Ashkenaz Jews to the Holy Land feel free.

    I question your emphasis on “Italian” women. Presumably only urban populations were significant though some might have been in small trading posts on frontiers. So the picture is one of merchants (mostly) not waiting till a bride from Palestine or elsewhere in the ME could be recruited. In that context I invoke my rabbi friend’s “there were Jews in the Rhineland before there were Germans” and the blue eyes and red facial hair of many Ashkenazim and suggest a big female Celtic input. As the Gauls had sacked Rome it would be wrong to deny that the “Italian” women were Celts but I raise the question.

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  142. @gcochran
    A better, more detailed analysis shows that Ashkenazi mtDNA is ~90% European, perhaps more. Mostly Italian.

    So that’s where you got the 48 per cent and/or 50 to 60 per cent European ancestry from? I.e averaging predominantly ME male and predominantly European female?

    What proportion Celtic? And….

    What can you tell us about the many smart Jews of Spain and their descendants as to genes and IQs? Were they originally just like the Ashkenazi forebears? And/or was there at some and what time a split? How far did the expelled Sephardis join up with Ashkenazi?

    Read More
    • Replies: @gcochran
    Shai Carmi did an autosomal analysis to get that 48%, but he used a peculiar model . For the European model population, he used Flemings, while if you wanted to find out the most accurate answer, you would have used a European population that was closer to the group that furnished most of the admixture - Italian. So the real fraction of European ancestry is somewhat higher than 48%. On the other hand he's much more honest than Behar, who is a liar, or El-Haik, who is just plain crazy.

    In general averaging the mtDNA and Y-chromosome numbers does not necessarily give you the right fraction of autosomal ancestry, although it's usually in the right ballpark. You can come up with artificial scenarios in which the mtDNA all comes from population A, all the Y chromosomes from population B, and all the autosomal DNA from population C.

    Today you could get a far more accurate number for the Y chromosome ancestry, by sequencing the entire Y chromosome, rather than just looking at STRs. I haven't seen anyone do this yet.

    proportion Celtic? hardly any, probably.

    The Sephardic Jews of Spain have a somewhat similar ancestry admixture, but I think it's like repeating a recipe, rather than a common origin: some middle eastern plus european, but not quite the same middle easterners and not the same Europeans. Just as mestizos in Mexico and Chile do not have a common origin.

    A few Sephardics moved to Poland upon expulsion, not many.
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  143. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The tittle is about Liberty. Dont hide focus. Dont underestimate impact. Dear nice noble audiences.

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  144. Clyde says: • Website
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    but of course

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  145. @iffen
    aspects of the thing?

    Not sure what the "thing" is.

    Am I anti-Goy?

    Not sure anti-goy is a thing.

    Simple and straight-forward; if you are a Holocaust denier, then you are an anti-Semite.

    Hey Iffen, you said,”Not sure anti-goy is a thing.” Well, sorry, but it turns out there is such a thing and Saker mentions why in an article just this AM. Cool, eh?

    “Likewise, anti-Semitism is a universally accepted notion, but goy-hatred is not. These are just two amongst many other such ‘one-way mental blocks”…Friends, this is not a coincidence. This is a *system* designed to make us all stupid and gullible.”

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-orlando-massacre-the-lies-the-exploitation-and-unasked-questions/

    With some of us the system failed, while with others….! ;)

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    but it turns out there is such a thing and Saker mentions why

    In that case, if both you and the Saker agree then by all means let me revise my world view.
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  146. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    I've never heard a geneticist suggest you need more than the Y chromosome and the mitochondrial DNA to know where a person's ancestors originated. What more will you get out of a whole genome study that is relevant. BTW, if it was Greg Cochran giving the 48 per cent figure for Ashkenazi European ancestry then I would regard him as authoritative even if it conflates the male and female lines in a single figure.

    How many great-grandparents did you have, Wiz? Two, or eight? I’ll leave the rest of what was to be my comment as an exercise for the reader.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Hello 5371.

    Sam S. and I exchanged views on your handle. I said that I thought it might be long hand for 88 and he thought it was a year in the Jewish calendar.

    I found a converter online, and if it is correct, the year 5371 would be 1611, and I couldn't find any notable event for the year 1611.

    Care to give us a hint?
    , @Wizard of Oz
    At first sight a good point: the most intelligent perhaps that i have read from you.

    So one of my great grandfathers' Y chromosome that i have inherited came from the Congo and one of the great-grandmothers whose mitochondrial DNA I share was Ainu but all the rest were pure bred Scandinavians. Interesting to speculate about what i would look like - but irrelevant of course.

    My instant provisional answer is that i am not a population and if you took 500 people who belonged to the same community as me it would be the averages that counted.

    How much you would be helped by dealing with the whole genome i don't know. Possibly you could infer how many Scandinavians contributed to my genome but it wouldn't help displace the conclusions already reached sbout the population.

    , @biz
    If the question was the proportions of your total ancestry as an individual then, yes, a full genome analysis would be relevant. If the question is the total founding ancestry proportion of a population then Y-chromosomes and Mt-DNA are sufficient. Think about it for a minute and you will probably get it. Or you may not get it, but it is still true.
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  147. alexander says:

    Dear Phil,

    There are some extremely important lessons we all need to learn about this attempted but flubbed Israeli “false-flag” Terror attack against our Liberty.

    The first is that Israel is willing to murder Americans in large numbers to suit their agenda.

    The second is that Israel commits acts of terrorism on very large scales, usually disguising them as false-flag events.

    The third is understanding the near total level of impunity for conducting such acts of terrorism, against the US, even when they are caught red handed.

    What sort of precedent does this set ?

    Doesn’t it make clear that ANY terrorist attack since that time, if it were an Israeli false-flag event, would be covered up completely ……in EXACTLY the same manner as was the Liberty incident ?

    And if this is the case,what does this say about our ENTIRE war on terror, if a leading perpetrator of “false flag” events against us , has absolute impunity for engaging in such conduct ?

    Isn’t it saying to all Americans that no matter what we do or how hard we try ,and even how many TRILLIONS we spend in fighting terrorism, Israels complete impunity guarantees this war will go on for exactly as long as they want it to ?

    And if it does, why is that Okay ?

    Why should our nations liberty from terrorism be determined by those who suffer no accountability when committing it ?

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  148. biz says:
    @5371
    I said well designed whole-genome studies, not Y-chromosome refuse you just dredged up by googling.

    You’re grasping at straws now and it shows. When speaking of a population, Y-chromosome analysis is sufficient to establish the founding male population, and Mt-DNA analysis is sufficient to establish the founding female population.

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  149. iffen says:
    @Jacques Sheete
    Not sure what the “thing” is.

    Use your imagination. Or read the sentence of yours I was referring to. (Hint: The subject was "The" holocaust, as in, “Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites.”


    "Simple and straight-forward; if you are a Holocaust denier, then you are an anti-Semite."

    Meh. Simple minded at best.

    Meh. Simple minded at best.

    Au contraire, not all Holocaust deniers are simple minded.

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  150. iffen says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    On the one hand weight should be put on the failure of Israel and the US to come clean on the Liberty if, nearly 50 years after the event, it would appear that knowledge of the Liberty's identity was only at a low level and didn't involve the Israeli government. It is hard not to conclude that it was an act of utter ruthlessness at a high level though I haven't heard a plausible explanation for why it would make sense for Israel to do it.

    Ah yes false flag theory does make sense.... Just note it..


    On the other hand I don't accept it as remotely reasonable to compare the Holocaust with the attack on the Liberty as you have. Test question: which would you prefer to be lodged in people's brains as something never to happen again but made possible by human nature so needing to be guarded against?

    it would appear that knowledge of the Liberty’s identity was only at a low level and didn’t involve the Israeli government… though I haven’t heard a plausible explanation for why it would make sense for Israel to do it.

    Concealing troop movements by the IDF is a plausible explanation.

    The Liberty would report troop movements, the Soviets would intercept those reports and pass them on to Egypt and Syria.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    That strikes me as an implausible explanation because it presumes that the US didn't have adequate encryption to pass on intelligence secretly, that Israel knew that, that the US didn't and that Israel didn't tell the US that the Soviet union was listening in on US secret comunications.

    I think i prefer the false flag explanation assuming that one is needed.
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  151. iffen says:
    @Jacques Sheete
    Hey Iffen, you said,"Not sure anti-goy is a thing." Well, sorry, but it turns out there is such a thing and Saker mentions why in an article just this AM. Cool, eh?


    “Likewise, anti-Semitism is a universally accepted notion, but goy-hatred is not. These are just two amongst many other such ‘one-way mental blocks”…Friends, this is not a coincidence. This is a *system* designed to make us all stupid and gullible.”

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-orlando-massacre-the-lies-the-exploitation-and-unasked-questions/

    With some of us the system failed, while with others....! ;)

    but it turns out there is such a thing and Saker mentions why

    In that case, if both you and the Saker agree then by all means let me revise my world view.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Jacques Sheete
    "In that case, if both you and the Saker agree then by all means let me revise my world view."

    To be more in line with this or what? I guess in its own way the dude is expressing praise for the goyim...

    "Goyim were born only to serve us." Explaining why God allowed non-Jews long lives, [Shmuel Eliyahu, the chief rabbi of Safed] added: "Imagine that your donkey would die, you’d lose your income. [The donkey] is your servant. … That’s why he [the gentile] gets a long life, to work well for the Jew."


    Mr Yosef’s remarks against "gentiles" were greeted with respectful silence by Israeli officials and most of the media. It was left to the United States government and the New York-based Anti-Defamation League (ADL) to issue rebukes. Abraham Foxman, the ADL’s head, accused the rabbi of advancing "hateful and divisive ideas".

    So, in criticizing the good rabbi, is the esteemed Mr Foxman anti-Semitic or what? I'd also be interested in your views about the Zionists who supported Nazis. Where do they fall on the anti-Semite scale?

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/10/israel-s-racist-rabbis/print

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  152. iffen says:
    @5371
    How many great-grandparents did you have, Wiz? Two, or eight? I'll leave the rest of what was to be my comment as an exercise for the reader.

    Hello 5371.

    Sam S. and I exchanged views on your handle. I said that I thought it might be long hand for 88 and he thought it was a year in the Jewish calendar.

    I found a converter online, and if it is correct, the year 5371 would be 1611, and I couldn’t find any notable event for the year 1611.

    Care to give us a hint?

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Both ingenious, but both wrong. It's simply a number which happens to be a friend of mine.
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  153. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    Well, I missed that Peter Frost imagery. I had Joe Webb on CTI for a while, but took him off and have learned a thing or two from considering his comments. I think he must have smoked or dropped way too much of the God's nectars. Please respond to my #104.

    On this matter, I am rather inclined to agree with Ron Unz [read the now fully disclosed transcripts from the pilots [even with many lines redacted] ]

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/#comment-972614

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    • Replies: @iffen
    Unz - “the motivation behind the deliberate Israeli attack is a major historical puzzle”

    Sam S. - “There are no rational answers. It was a tragic mistake pure and simple, but those who believe otherwise”

    Which is it? Do you agree with Unz or with Sam S.?
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  154. iffen says:
    @Morris Bernstein
    So what if somebody makes a buck? I fully believe in everything I say. However, this is time of my life, so I do need to be compensated. It's not much, and it doesn't come from Israel. $2,000 a month for 5 hours per week, but it's from the comfort of home. Nobody going to get rich off doing it or quit their day job, so it's not like we would lie for chump change.

    $2,000 a month for 5 hours per week

    WTF, I asked for $2,000 and they Jewed me down to $1,500.

    Just for that, have at it Art!

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  155. @iffen
    it would appear that knowledge of the Liberty’s identity was only at a low level and didn’t involve the Israeli government... though I haven’t heard a plausible explanation for why it would make sense for Israel to do it.

    Concealing troop movements by the IDF is a plausible explanation.

    The Liberty would report troop movements, the Soviets would intercept those reports and pass them on to Egypt and Syria.

    That strikes me as an implausible explanation because it presumes that the US didn’t have adequate encryption to pass on intelligence secretly, that Israel knew that, that the US didn’t and that Israel didn’t tell the US that the Soviet union was listening in on US secret comunications.

    I think i prefer the false flag explanation assuming that one is needed.

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    • Replies: @iffen
    the US didn’t have adequate encryption to pass on intelligence secretly

    The US Navy wasn't competent enough to communicate adequately with the Liberty. If they had been, then the Liberty would have been 100 n. miles away from the coast, out of the war zone, and the incident would never have occurred.
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  156. @5371
    How many great-grandparents did you have, Wiz? Two, or eight? I'll leave the rest of what was to be my comment as an exercise for the reader.

    At first sight a good point: the most intelligent perhaps that i have read from you.

    So one of my great grandfathers’ Y chromosome that i have inherited came from the Congo and one of the great-grandmothers whose mitochondrial DNA I share was Ainu but all the rest were pure bred Scandinavians. Interesting to speculate about what i would look like – but irrelevant of course.

    My instant provisional answer is that i am not a population and if you took 500 people who belonged to the same community as me it would be the averages that counted.

    How much you would be helped by dealing with the whole genome i don’t know. Possibly you could infer how many Scandinavians contributed to my genome but it wouldn’t help displace the conclusions already reached sbout the population.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    The Y-chromosome and mitochondrial haplotypes by themselves usually afford precision no better than on a continental scale. That's how we got such absurdities as the "Cohen haplotype" which turned out to be nothing of the kind. Whole-genome methods, on the contrary,themselves. provide the space within which to interpret them more securely.
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  157. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    On this matter, I am rather inclined to agree with Ron Unz [read the now fully disclosed transcripts from the pilots [even with many lines redacted] ]

    http://www.unz.com/article/the-uss-liberty-must-not-be-forgotten/#comment-972614

    Unz – “the motivation behind the deliberate Israeli attack is a major historical puzzle”

    Sam S. – “There are no rational answers. It was a tragic mistake pure and simple, but those who believe otherwise”

    Which is it? Do you agree with Unz or with Sam S.?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Iffen, permit me to be crystal clear. When I wrote my comments a year ago, I had paid only scant attention to the event and its details, believing as I did then, it was a tragic mistake committed by lower ranking officers. Upon examining/listening to the transcripts [in Hebrew] I was left with the clear conclusion that the captain of the flight formation ordered at least one ambivalent pilot to attack [the pilot kept repeating "Ze shelanu, ze shelanu" meaning "it's one of ours! one of ours!" to which the captain replied something like, "ze lo taout, tasseh ma she ani omer", meaning "Its not a mistake, do what I tell you to"] and another one, who refused, to turn back to Base and present himself to the chain of command. The captain then, was aware of the identity of the ship, yet continued on his mission to destroy an American ship and its crew. How far up did this duplicity go? I don't know. Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .

    [I will tell you as a side-note, I don't need to be lectured on the IDF by the 88s, as I am quite conversant with its operations today. It gets to perform a thankless job of policing the WB upon orders from the political class led by Netanyahu, and as a result of which, deservedly, but more often undeservedly, it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]

    Coming back to the U.S.S. Liberty, I am with Phil Giraldi. The survivors deserve recognition and much, much more. Should an independent investigation reveal Israeli and American collaborators and their nefarious reasons, they need to be hauled to the public square [even if octogenarians by now], then hung drawn and quartered.

    Clear enough?
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  158. iffen says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    That strikes me as an implausible explanation because it presumes that the US didn't have adequate encryption to pass on intelligence secretly, that Israel knew that, that the US didn't and that Israel didn't tell the US that the Soviet union was listening in on US secret comunications.

    I think i prefer the false flag explanation assuming that one is needed.

    the US didn’t have adequate encryption to pass on intelligence secretly

    The US Navy wasn’t competent enough to communicate adequately with the Liberty. If they had been, then the Liberty would have been 100 n. miles away from the coast, out of the war zone, and the incident would never have occurred.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    A year ago Ron Unz described the Liberty as the US's most advanced intelligence ship. It is hardly likely that its communications were open to the USSR.
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  159. @iffen
    but it turns out there is such a thing and Saker mentions why

    In that case, if both you and the Saker agree then by all means let me revise my world view.

    “In that case, if both you and the Saker agree then by all means let me revise my world view.”

    To be more in line with this or what? I guess in its own way the dude is expressing praise for the goyim…

    “Goyim were born only to serve us.” Explaining why God allowed non-Jews long lives, [Shmuel Eliyahu, the chief rabbi of Safed] added: “Imagine that your donkey would die, you’d lose your income. [The donkey] is your servant. … That’s why he [the gentile] gets a long life, to work well for the Jew.”

    Mr Yosef’s remarks against “gentiles” were greeted with respectful silence by Israeli officials and most of the media. It was left to the United States government and the New York-based Anti-Defamation League (ADL) to issue rebukes. Abraham Foxman, the ADL’s head, accused the rabbi of advancing “hateful and divisive ideas”.

    So, in criticizing the good rabbi, is the esteemed Mr Foxman anti-Semitic or what? I’d also be interested in your views about the Zionists who supported Nazis. Where do they fall on the anti-Semite scale?

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2010/12/10/israel-s-racist-rabbis/print

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  160. annamaria says:
    @iffen
    inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism

    Which of the comments are smears of anti-Semitism, numbers please? Don’t use # 1 because I am not sure of what he is trying to say.

    There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty

    So that is the way it is done, you just declare that there is no doubt.

    the diaspora engineered a coverup

    Where is the cover-up? They admitted that they did it. The question is whether they did it intentionally.

    You really do not know how and “where is the cover-up?

    This is how the Lobby does it:
    1. “Flanked by AIPAC and Israeli consul, Cuomo signs anti-BDS order:” http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/flanked-israeli-consul/

    2. “Professor’s Angry Tweets on Gaza Cost Him a Job:” http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/world/middleeast/professors-angry-tweets-on-gaza-cost-him-a-job.html?_r=0

    3. “On the Death of Helen Thomas:” https://consortiumnews.com/2013/07/22/on-the-death-of-helen-thomas/

    4. “Why is Norman Finkelstein Not Allowed to Teach?” http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/finkelstein.html

    and more….

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    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
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  161. @Rehmat
    Dear Giraldi, I think the Americans as good Christian smartens should forgive the incident as another 'Christian blood sacrifice' as the American Jewish Lobby admitted Israeli crimes in 2013.

    Leaders of several major American Jewish organizations met Barack Obama and members of his national security team on January 23, 2013 offering abject apologies for the Israeli covert attack on USS Liberty. According to Karl Reich, BNN senior producer, the Jewish groups included ADL, AIPAC and the Conference of Major American Jewish Organizations. However, the Israeli ambassador in Washington could not attend the meeting due to sickness.

    It took American Jewish leaders 46 year to admit that Israel did intentionally attack electronic intelligence-gathering ship, USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, which resulted the death of 34 young Americans and wounding another 171. The Zionist regime blamed Egypt for the attack. The Israeli-poodle president Lyndon Johnson (his mother Rebekah Baines had Jewish family roots) covered Israeli foot-prints under the influence of his advisor, Mathilde Krim, a former operative of Jewish terrorist group Irgun. Her husband Arthur Krim, then chaired the finance committee for the Democratic National Committee.

    Both Admiral Thomas Moorer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Dean Rusk, secretary of state refuted Israeli story (“a tragic incident”) and called the incident a deliberate Israeli attack to suck American forces on Israeli side against Arabs.

    Lt. Com. James Ennes was one of the survivors on USS Liberty. His story can be read here. James was hounded by the Jewish Lobby groups for years. They called him “antisemite”, “Nazi bastard” and “drop dead”.

    Alan Hart, veteran British war correspondent and author who covered the war from Sinai – has claimed that Israel was not attacked by Arab armies but it was deliberate attack by Israeli defense minister Gen. Moshe Dayan to destroy Egypt’s Soviet supplied military equipment – planes, missiles, artillery, tanks, the lot. Both Zionist prime minister Eshkol and Dayan took the military adventure as result of US president Lyndon Johnson’s “conditional green light”. The invasion and occupation of Jordanian and Syrian territories were not part of President’s green light.

    https://rehmat1.com/2013/01/27/jewish-groups-apologize-for-israeli-attack-on-uss-liberty/

    That’s sensationally interesting if true – and renders much of the discussion on this thread idle ignorance. But what are your sources for the admission and apology to President Obama?

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  162. annamaria says:
    @iffen
    inured to the standard smears of anti-Semitism

    Which of the comments are smears of anti-Semitism, numbers please? Don’t use # 1 because I am not sure of what he is trying to say.

    There is no doubt that Israel deliberately bombed the American spy ship Liberty

    So that is the way it is done, you just declare that there is no doubt.

    the diaspora engineered a coverup

    Where is the cover-up? They admitted that they did it. The question is whether they did it intentionally.

    Here is also an example of how the Lobby operates against “undesirables” in the US government: “Freeman hits ‘Israel lobby’ on way out:” http://www.politico.com/story/2009/03/freeman-hits-israel-lobby-on-way-out-019856

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  163. annamaria says:
    @anonymous
    Serious question Phil . Do you think about jews 24/7 . I mean is there even a few moments in your day when jews do not occupy your mind ? Even when you sleep are your dreams ( nightmares ) 100% jew dreams every night. 99.87% of the time ??

    You mean, the US should close the eyes and “think of England” while the US resources are burnt in the Middle East and the US Constitution is under attack from the “chosen?” Could you tell Krystols and Kagans to close their dirty mouths and stop inciting for more wars, day after day? Enough already. It is not for nothing that the Lobby and its supporters are called “Israel-firsters.” Their loyalty is not to the US and American people but to their “promised land” and “chosen people.” Giraldy is a patriot of the USA. Whats is your grievance about? – that Giraldy cares about his country that has been abused by the unprincipled tribe?

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  164. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    Unz - “the motivation behind the deliberate Israeli attack is a major historical puzzle”

    Sam S. - “There are no rational answers. It was a tragic mistake pure and simple, but those who believe otherwise”

    Which is it? Do you agree with Unz or with Sam S.?

    Iffen, permit me to be crystal clear. When I wrote my comments a year ago, I had paid only scant attention to the event and its details, believing as I did then, it was a tragic mistake committed by lower ranking officers. Upon examining/listening to the transcripts [in Hebrew] I was left with the clear conclusion that the captain of the flight formation ordered at least one ambivalent pilot to attack [the pilot kept repeating "Ze shelanu, ze shelanu" meaning "it's one of ours! one of ours!" to which the captain replied something like, "ze lo taout, tasseh ma she ani omer", meaning "Its not a mistake, do what I tell you to"] and another one, who refused, to turn back to Base and present himself to the chain of command. The captain then, was aware of the identity of the ship, yet continued on his mission to destroy an American ship and its crew. How far up did this duplicity go? I don’t know. Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .

    [I will tell you as a side-note, I don't need to be lectured on the IDF by the 88s, as I am quite conversant with its operations today. It gets to perform a thankless job of policing the WB upon orders from the political class led by Netanyahu, and as a result of which, deservedly, but more often undeservedly, it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]

    Coming back to the U.S.S. Liberty, I am with Phil Giraldi. The survivors deserve recognition and much, much more. Should an independent investigation reveal Israeli and American collaborators and their nefarious reasons, they need to be hauled to the public square [even if octogenarians by now], then hung drawn and quartered.

    Clear enough?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Clear enough?

    Yes, thank you.

    I have recently put myself in the deliberate attack camp. I remember reading about the incident years ago and putting it into my inconclusive box.
    , @Rurik

    Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.
     
    no it's not Sam, everyone knows why they did it- As a false flag to get the US to destroy Egypt, so the cowards in the IDF wouldn't have to fight them. Just like the way they did 911 to get the US to go to war with all their enemies in the Middle East. Duh

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .
     
    at least it was a military target against men in uniform, (even if they were Israel's allies)

    Somehow for me it's rather more shameful when one of the world's more sophisticated militaries does something like target and slaughter dangerous terrorists like these...

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/17/article-2695793-1FB70E4C00000578-571_964x612.jpg

    that I consider them at their most cowardly and ignominious

    it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]
     
    for a country whose motto is 'by deception, we do war', that's quite the charge, and of course, as we've already discovered, the "false videos" you're speaking of, isn't this actual video of your poor put-upon IDF soldiers heroically taking on Goliath with their measly sling-shot (sniper rifle)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUibXSgILv0
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  165. @Jus' Sayin'...

    This averages out to something like 62% levantine.
     
    Studies I've seen put the figure the other way around; about 40% middle eastern.

    Your argument seems to be that European and Asian Jewish colonizers have stolen the land fair and square from its original inhabitants. It's the standard colonialist argument. For consistency's sake will you hold to it when the land gets taken back. The demographics make that inevitable. The poor showing of the entire IDF against one Hezbolla brigade about ten years ago make it likely sooner rather than later.

    The result will be a catastrophe for world Jewry. A catastrophe brought on by equating Judaism with Zionism. It will be comparable to earlier catastrophes brought on by earlier false Jewish prophets, e.g., Simon bar Kokhbar, Sabati Xevi.

    So what would you do with Israelis like me (1/2 Ashkenazi 1/2 Syrian) or my kids (1/2 Yemenite)? Things aren’t so cut and dried after all this time.

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  166. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    Iffen, permit me to be crystal clear. When I wrote my comments a year ago, I had paid only scant attention to the event and its details, believing as I did then, it was a tragic mistake committed by lower ranking officers. Upon examining/listening to the transcripts [in Hebrew] I was left with the clear conclusion that the captain of the flight formation ordered at least one ambivalent pilot to attack [the pilot kept repeating "Ze shelanu, ze shelanu" meaning "it's one of ours! one of ours!" to which the captain replied something like, "ze lo taout, tasseh ma she ani omer", meaning "Its not a mistake, do what I tell you to"] and another one, who refused, to turn back to Base and present himself to the chain of command. The captain then, was aware of the identity of the ship, yet continued on his mission to destroy an American ship and its crew. How far up did this duplicity go? I don't know. Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .

    [I will tell you as a side-note, I don't need to be lectured on the IDF by the 88s, as I am quite conversant with its operations today. It gets to perform a thankless job of policing the WB upon orders from the political class led by Netanyahu, and as a result of which, deservedly, but more often undeservedly, it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]

    Coming back to the U.S.S. Liberty, I am with Phil Giraldi. The survivors deserve recognition and much, much more. Should an independent investigation reveal Israeli and American collaborators and their nefarious reasons, they need to be hauled to the public square [even if octogenarians by now], then hung drawn and quartered.

    Clear enough?

    Clear enough?

    Yes, thank you.

    I have recently put myself in the deliberate attack camp. I remember reading about the incident years ago and putting it into my inconclusive box.

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  167. @iffen
    the US didn’t have adequate encryption to pass on intelligence secretly

    The US Navy wasn't competent enough to communicate adequately with the Liberty. If they had been, then the Liberty would have been 100 n. miles away from the coast, out of the war zone, and the incident would never have occurred.

    A year ago Ron Unz described the Liberty as the US’s most advanced intelligence ship. It is hardly likely that its communications were open to the USSR.

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  168. biz says:
    @5371
    How many great-grandparents did you have, Wiz? Two, or eight? I'll leave the rest of what was to be my comment as an exercise for the reader.

    If the question was the proportions of your total ancestry as an individual then, yes, a full genome analysis would be relevant. If the question is the total founding ancestry proportion of a population then Y-chromosomes and Mt-DNA are sufficient. Think about it for a minute and you will probably get it. Or you may not get it, but it is still true.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    You are not tall enough to go on this ride.
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  169. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    One of the problems seems to date back to the pre WW1 Ottoman rule under which only a very small fraction of the land was owned privately. So the formerly nomadic Bedouin found themselves squatting on land which they hadn't either bought or leased from the Israeli government as successor to the Ottoman government. Eventually the government got round to planning its use and that meant evictions....

    Eventually the government got round to planning its use (Bedouin land) and that meant evictions….

    Wiz,

    Oh – I see – as the Israeli take the land, they are building new homes for the Bedouin – RIGHT!

    Art

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  170. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama
    Iffen, permit me to be crystal clear. When I wrote my comments a year ago, I had paid only scant attention to the event and its details, believing as I did then, it was a tragic mistake committed by lower ranking officers. Upon examining/listening to the transcripts [in Hebrew] I was left with the clear conclusion that the captain of the flight formation ordered at least one ambivalent pilot to attack [the pilot kept repeating "Ze shelanu, ze shelanu" meaning "it's one of ours! one of ours!" to which the captain replied something like, "ze lo taout, tasseh ma she ani omer", meaning "Its not a mistake, do what I tell you to"] and another one, who refused, to turn back to Base and present himself to the chain of command. The captain then, was aware of the identity of the ship, yet continued on his mission to destroy an American ship and its crew. How far up did this duplicity go? I don't know. Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .

    [I will tell you as a side-note, I don't need to be lectured on the IDF by the 88s, as I am quite conversant with its operations today. It gets to perform a thankless job of policing the WB upon orders from the political class led by Netanyahu, and as a result of which, deservedly, but more often undeservedly, it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]

    Coming back to the U.S.S. Liberty, I am with Phil Giraldi. The survivors deserve recognition and much, much more. Should an independent investigation reveal Israeli and American collaborators and their nefarious reasons, they need to be hauled to the public square [even if octogenarians by now], then hung drawn and quartered.

    Clear enough?

    Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.

    no it’s not Sam, everyone knows why they did it- As a false flag to get the US to destroy Egypt, so the cowards in the IDF wouldn’t have to fight them. Just like the way they did 911 to get the US to go to war with all their enemies in the Middle East. Duh

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .

    at least it was a military target against men in uniform, (even if they were Israel’s allies)

    Somehow for me it’s rather more shameful when one of the world’s more sophisticated militaries does something like target and slaughter dangerous terrorists like these…

    that I consider them at their most cowardly and ignominious

    it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]

    for a country whose motto is ‘by deception, we do war’, that’s quite the charge, and of course, as we’ve already discovered, the “false videos” you’re speaking of, isn’t this actual video of your poor put-upon IDF soldiers heroically taking on Goliath with their measly sling-shot (sniper rifle)

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    I think Israels terrorist attack against our Liberty had multiple purposes,Rurik.

    The first was to sink our intelligence vessel, to prevent us from gaining hard intelligence on who ,in fact, was intent on initiated the war..

    The second was to disguise this attack as an Egyptian assault, so our enmity would point towards Egypt, and not Israel.

    These seem to be the most glaring rationales.......

    But check out my comment #147 on this thread...and see if you do not agree with its premise..

    It is the sheer level of Israels impunity, even when caught, which is perhaps our greatest worry, today.
    , @Sam Shama
    False video, that is all I shall say of it right now. The IDF stopped publishing it's analyses of doctored videos for a few years now [https://www.idfblog.com/blog/2012/05/19/5-anti-idf-lies-which-turned-viral/] and compiling a major report for presentation to relevant authorities.

    When Iffen writes of 88s, I now think of you as personifying the image. I don't for a moment believe you care a whit for Palestinians. So you can throw any random pictures you want; I however, actually knew Shlomit. She was stabbed to death early in the year.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03559/Shlomit_Krigman4_3559345b.jpg

    I know the reactions this will elide from the 88 cognoscenti. Don't bother.

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  171. alexander says:
    @Rurik

    Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.
     
    no it's not Sam, everyone knows why they did it- As a false flag to get the US to destroy Egypt, so the cowards in the IDF wouldn't have to fight them. Just like the way they did 911 to get the US to go to war with all their enemies in the Middle East. Duh

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .
     
    at least it was a military target against men in uniform, (even if they were Israel's allies)

    Somehow for me it's rather more shameful when one of the world's more sophisticated militaries does something like target and slaughter dangerous terrorists like these...

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/17/article-2695793-1FB70E4C00000578-571_964x612.jpg

    that I consider them at their most cowardly and ignominious

    it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]
     
    for a country whose motto is 'by deception, we do war', that's quite the charge, and of course, as we've already discovered, the "false videos" you're speaking of, isn't this actual video of your poor put-upon IDF soldiers heroically taking on Goliath with their measly sling-shot (sniper rifle)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUibXSgILv0

    I think Israels terrorist attack against our Liberty had multiple purposes,Rurik.

    The first was to sink our intelligence vessel, to prevent us from gaining hard intelligence on who ,in fact, was intent on initiated the war..

    The second was to disguise this attack as an Egyptian assault, so our enmity would point towards Egypt, and not Israel.

    These seem to be the most glaring rationales…….

    But check out my comment #147 on this thread…and see if you do not agree with its premise..

    It is the sheer level of Israels impunity, even when caught, which is perhaps our greatest worry, today.

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    • Replies: @Rurik

    The first was to sink our intelligence vessel, to prevent us from gaining hard intelligence on who ,in fact, was intent on initiated the war..
     
    I doubt that one Alexander, only because no matter what Israel did, the US government and media would have lied to protect them.

    The second was to disguise this attack as an Egyptian assault, so our enmity would point towards Egypt, and not Israel.
     
    that's it alright !

    Doesn’t it make clear that ANY terrorist attack since that time, if it were an Israeli false-flag event, would be covered up completely ……in EXACTLY the same manner as was the Liberty incident ?
     
    I'm glad you brought that up, because when people claim that there's just no way that if elements in our government and media were to have known that 911 was an inside job at the highest levels (perhaps excluding the chimp), that they could have ever managed for cover it all up and sell a vile lie that it was someone else, like Saddam who did it. But the attack on the USS Liberty is just such a case of an act of war (and unprecedented act of cowardly treachery) that, like 911 was perpetrated by Israel to the continuing cover-ups by our own government and media. When they got away completely with something like the attack on the USS Liberty, they knew they could get away with anything.
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  172. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    At first sight a good point: the most intelligent perhaps that i have read from you.

    So one of my great grandfathers' Y chromosome that i have inherited came from the Congo and one of the great-grandmothers whose mitochondrial DNA I share was Ainu but all the rest were pure bred Scandinavians. Interesting to speculate about what i would look like - but irrelevant of course.

    My instant provisional answer is that i am not a population and if you took 500 people who belonged to the same community as me it would be the averages that counted.

    How much you would be helped by dealing with the whole genome i don't know. Possibly you could infer how many Scandinavians contributed to my genome but it wouldn't help displace the conclusions already reached sbout the population.

    The Y-chromosome and mitochondrial haplotypes by themselves usually afford precision no better than on a continental scale. That’s how we got such absurdities as the “Cohen haplotype” which turned out to be nothing of the kind. Whole-genome methods, on the contrary,themselves. provide the space within which to interpret them more securely.

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  173. Hillchief says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    The main problem with Americans is you do not give a shit about stuff that happened 50 years ago.
    This is why you support the Taliban in the 80′s and lost the towers in the 2000′s. You did regime change in the 50′s in Iran, you got the revolution in 79.

    So grow up and never criticize anyone bringing up your past errors, as it shows you have no concept of “Blow Back”.

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  174. 5371 says:
    @biz
    If the question was the proportions of your total ancestry as an individual then, yes, a full genome analysis would be relevant. If the question is the total founding ancestry proportion of a population then Y-chromosomes and Mt-DNA are sufficient. Think about it for a minute and you will probably get it. Or you may not get it, but it is still true.

    You are not tall enough to go on this ride.

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    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Back to being so cryptic that the nature of your offensiveness is obscure!

    But your little show of knowledge in detail did show that you were wrong I think. Or are you going to take on the formidable Greg Cochran and tell him that the figures he has quoted on this thread - initially as gcichran - are unknowable from the data/evidence available. I wouldn't risk it if I were you. He hasn't signed the Geneva Convention wrt POWs.
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  175. 5371 says:
    @iffen
    Hello 5371.

    Sam S. and I exchanged views on your handle. I said that I thought it might be long hand for 88 and he thought it was a year in the Jewish calendar.

    I found a converter online, and if it is correct, the year 5371 would be 1611, and I couldn't find any notable event for the year 1611.

    Care to give us a hint?

    Both ingenious, but both wrong. It’s simply a number which happens to be a friend of mine.

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    • Replies: @OLD JEW
    nevertheless:

    5+3 = 8
    7 +1 = 8

    Concatenate the 2 sums. ---> 88
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  176. David Evans says: • Website
    @AmericaFirstNow
    ISIS trains 600 terrorists to attack Europe (and US) because of Israel:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48_ZeiK5gqU

    Zionist-owned Congress’ wars for Israel’s balkanizing Oded Yinon Plan get us attacked in RETALIATION. To end the wars and terrorist attacks on the west heed the words of ex-CIA bin Laden Unit Chief Michael Scheuer:

    This is the plan, complemented by the Jewish neocon’s A Clean Break Plan (google it) that is bankrupting the US on multi-trillion-dollar wars while US cities and infrastructure rot.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

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    • Replies: @taxonomy26
    LOL.
    Conspiracy website Globalresearch and boobtube.
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  177. Sam Shama says:
    @Rurik

    Why did they do it? Its a puzzle.
     
    no it's not Sam, everyone knows why they did it- As a false flag to get the US to destroy Egypt, so the cowards in the IDF wouldn't have to fight them. Just like the way they did 911 to get the US to go to war with all their enemies in the Middle East. Duh

    This is the most ignominious incident in the history of the IDF .
     
    at least it was a military target against men in uniform, (even if they were Israel's allies)

    Somehow for me it's rather more shameful when one of the world's more sophisticated militaries does something like target and slaughter dangerous terrorists like these...

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/17/article-2695793-1FB70E4C00000578-571_964x612.jpg

    that I consider them at their most cowardly and ignominious

    it is on the receiving end of misinformation wars [false videos]]
     
    for a country whose motto is 'by deception, we do war', that's quite the charge, and of course, as we've already discovered, the "false videos" you're speaking of, isn't this actual video of your poor put-upon IDF soldiers heroically taking on Goliath with their measly sling-shot (sniper rifle)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUibXSgILv0

    False video, that is all I shall say of it right now. The IDF stopped publishing it’s analyses of doctored videos for a few years now [
    I know the reactions this will elide from the 88 cognoscenti. Don’t bother.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Rurik

    False video, that is all I shall say of it right now.
     
    and your evidence for that?

    do you have a link, or anything? Or are you just relying on your moral capital as a objective beacon of the truth in all things?

    It's not a faked video, it's very real indeed, and it goes a long way towards showing the level of contempt for Palestinian children's lives that your 'oh-so brave and humanitarian' IDF actually practices.

    as for the young women tragically murdered, can you even comprehend that the fact her parents were raising her on land that belonged to others might have had something to do with her getting killed? I'll tell you what, if I had a daughter like that in the 19the century America, and the whites were colonizing Amerindian land, I wouldn't have used such a daughter as a weapon to steal other people's land. It would be folly of the most callous kind, and the reason for her premature death.

    ~ may she rest in peace ..

    , @Max Payne
    I love it. International media records Israeli war crimes on video. False video.

    A slew of evidence posing serious questions about certain aspects of the holocaust. Anti-semitism.

    You just can't make this shit up....

    I guess when you're identity is so intertwined with something so evil you can literally make yourself believe, against all evidence, the complete opposite of what's happening in front of you.

    It must be some sort of mental disorder... or willful deception... or both feeding on each other.
    , @Art
    To whom it may concern,

    (Mr. Sam has chosen to not view my comments – his magnificent Jew intellect cannot handle my meager but truthful comments.) (Funny how a little truth trumps the best most intelligent misdirection of facts.)

    It is so cute how he has adopted his little Gentile pet’s (iffen) language.

    Iffen has come up with the new phony words that slay the truth talkers - 88’s (Nazis).

    It is true that “anti-Semite” has lost its edge – it is so ubiquitously used against any quibble that it has no meaning. Say a truth about a Jew and you will called an anti-Semite in a NY minute.

    What words are coming next “anti-holocaust.” Using the word “Semite” is a lie – 95% of Semites are Arabs. His problem is that holocaust is another lie that cannot be backed up by the truth – only intimidation.

    Mr. Sam’s problems are growing.

    Art
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  178. David Evans says: • Website

    That Israel got away with purposely attacking the US Navy is indicative of how deeply imbedded withing US government Zionist Jews are. This attack leaves no doubt that America is an Israeli-controlled bludgeon.

    See the following links:

    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/03/22/the-best-congress-aipac-can-buy/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/billionaires-adelson-and-saban-at-odds-in-campaigns-unite-on-israel-and-hit-obama/2014/11/09/92a40f68-6835-11e4-b053-65cea7903f2e_story.html

    http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jews-in-the-media-hollywood/

    The destruction of Iraq, Libya and Syria cost the United States thousands of warrior’s lives and trillions of dollars. Iraq alone cost $6 Trillion, or 1/3 of the entire national debt. These states are among several targeted by this Israeli plan:

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    Until Zionists are purged from the US political machine, the bankrupting wars for Israel will continue while America is bled dry.

    http://www.countercurrents.org/polya270813.htm

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    • Agree: Rurik
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  179. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    USS Liberty Remembrance – We Are Change Florida

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  180. I know that Al Jazeerah broadcast a documentary on the USS Liberty attack but have any of our history-related channels ever done a story on it or have they flushed it down the memory hole like the crime-channels have flushed the Zebra Killings? “No good can come from revisiting these painful chapters, oy! Now, more slavery and holocaust documentaries!”

    Read More
    • Replies: @Philip Giraldi
    AS far as I know only the BBC and al-Jazeera have done documentaries on the Liberty.
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  181. @Malcolm X-Lax
    I know that Al Jazeerah broadcast a documentary on the USS Liberty attack but have any of our history-related channels ever done a story on it or have they flushed it down the memory hole like the crime-channels have flushed the Zebra Killings? "No good can come from revisiting these painful chapters, oy! Now, more slavery and holocaust documentaries!"

    AS far as I know only the BBC and al-Jazeera have done documentaries on the Liberty.

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  182. OLD JEW says:
    @5371
    Both ingenious, but both wrong. It's simply a number which happens to be a friend of mine.

    nevertheless:

    5+3 = 8
    7 +1 = 8

    Concatenate the 2 sums. —> 88

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Yes, but he said that was not it.

    I like to believe what people say until they prove themselves to be untrustworthy.
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  183. Rurik says:
    @Sam Shama
    False video, that is all I shall say of it right now. The IDF stopped publishing it's analyses of doctored videos for a few years now [https://www.idfblog.com/blog/2012/05/19/5-anti-idf-lies-which-turned-viral/] and compiling a major report for presentation to relevant authorities.

    When Iffen writes of 88s, I now think of you as personifying the image. I don't for a moment believe you care a whit for Palestinians. So you can throw any random pictures you want; I however, actually knew Shlomit. She was stabbed to death early in the year.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03559/Shlomit_Krigman4_3559345b.jpg

    I know the reactions this will elide from the 88 cognoscenti. Don't bother.

    False video, that is all I shall say of it right now.

    and your evidence for that?

    do you have a link, or anything? Or are you just relying on your moral capital as a objective beacon of the truth in all things?

    It’s not a faked video, it’s very real indeed, and it goes a long way towards showing the level of contempt for Palestinian children’s lives that your ‘oh-so brave and humanitarian’ IDF actually practices.

    as for the young women tragically murdered, can you even comprehend that the fact her parents were raising her on land that belonged to others might have had something to do with her getting killed? I’ll tell you what, if I had a daughter like that in the 19the century America, and the whites were colonizing Amerindian land, I wouldn’t have used such a daughter as a weapon to steal other people’s land. It would be folly of the most callous kind, and the reason for her premature death.

    ~ may she rest in peace ..

    Read More
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  184. iffen says:
    @OLD JEW
    nevertheless:

    5+3 = 8
    7 +1 = 8

    Concatenate the 2 sums. ---> 88

    Yes, but he said that was not it.

    I like to believe what people say until they prove themselves to be untrustworthy.

    Read More
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  185. To me, the fact that the USS Liberty’s communications frequencies were being deliberately jammed indicates that it was an intentional attack. I asked James Ennes about this decades ago but I have no recollection of his response (if any).

    As for US Navy communications, the whole point of the big parabolic dish on top of the vessel was to direct intelligence information to the moon, where it would bounce off and scatter enough to be received by earth receiving stations.

    Defense Electronics, October 1979, contains an article by James Ennes entitled:”Israeli Attack on U.S. Ship Reveals Failure of C3.”

    http://www.gtr5.com is the current USS Liberty site maintained by Ennes; it contains a link to his older site which is highly recommended.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Ace
    The issue of the frequencies that the Israelis jammed is telling. Warships, police, armies, citizen band, ham radio use assigned portions of the spectrum and within those allocations specific frequencies are used. I'm not a SIGINT analyst but I figure it was no accident that the precise freqs of the Liberty were jammed. The Israelis knew the freqs of that American warship.

    The idea that the Israelis used a blunderbuss approach seems ridiculous to me.

    On an unrelated point, I read one account that said that a U.S. sub was in the area but could not respond because, I presume, of having a higher-priority strategic mission.
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  186. Max Payne says:
    @Sam Shama
    False video, that is all I shall say of it right now. The IDF stopped publishing it's analyses of doctored videos for a few years now [https://www.idfblog.com/blog/2012/05/19/5-anti-idf-lies-which-turned-viral/] and compiling a major report for presentation to relevant authorities.

    When Iffen writes of 88s, I now think of you as personifying the image. I don't for a moment believe you care a whit for Palestinians. So you can throw any random pictures you want; I however, actually knew Shlomit. She was stabbed to death early in the year.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03559/Shlomit_Krigman4_3559345b.jpg

    I know the reactions this will elide from the 88 cognoscenti. Don't bother.

    I love it. International media records Israeli war crimes on video. False video.

    A slew of evidence posing serious questions about certain aspects of the holocaust. Anti-semitism.

    You just can’t make this shit up….

    I guess when you’re identity is so intertwined with something so evil you can literally make yourself believe, against all evidence, the complete opposite of what’s happening in front of you.

    It must be some sort of mental disorder… or willful deception… or both feeding on each other.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    You are well within your rights to practice the faith of your choice. In this case a childlike belief that all of these videos are genuine.

    A great many atrocities have been inflicted on the Pals, but I would suggest not swallowing every story as true.

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  187. Sam Shama says:
    @Max Payne
    I love it. International media records Israeli war crimes on video. False video.

    A slew of evidence posing serious questions about certain aspects of the holocaust. Anti-semitism.

    You just can't make this shit up....

    I guess when you're identity is so intertwined with something so evil you can literally make yourself believe, against all evidence, the complete opposite of what's happening in front of you.

    It must be some sort of mental disorder... or willful deception... or both feeding on each other.

    You are well within your rights to practice the faith of your choice. In this case a childlike belief that all of these videos are genuine.

    A great many atrocities have been inflicted on the Pals, but I would suggest not swallowing every story as true.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    Sam, a person could exaggerate thousands of times the atrocities and lies committed and told by Jews over the past 5000 years, and still come-up far short of portraying reality. As a sort of refresher, start by reading or re-reading the Old Testament, where you will find thousands of atrocities committed and lies recorded by Jewish scribes. And when it comes to proving that bold face lying by the Chosen is still very much in vogue, read or re-read the holocau$t fable which withstands serious inquiry about as well as do Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, or Alice In Wonderland.
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  188. Art says:
    @Sam Shama
    False video, that is all I shall say of it right now. The IDF stopped publishing it's analyses of doctored videos for a few years now [https://www.idfblog.com/blog/2012/05/19/5-anti-idf-lies-which-turned-viral/] and compiling a major report for presentation to relevant authorities.

    When Iffen writes of 88s, I now think of you as personifying the image. I don't for a moment believe you care a whit for Palestinians. So you can throw any random pictures you want; I however, actually knew Shlomit. She was stabbed to death early in the year.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03559/Shlomit_Krigman4_3559345b.jpg

    I know the reactions this will elide from the 88 cognoscenti. Don't bother.

    To whom it may concern,

    (Mr. Sam has chosen to not view my comments – his magnificent Jew intellect cannot handle my meager but truthful comments.) (Funny how a little truth trumps the best most intelligent misdirection of facts.)

    It is so cute how he has adopted his little Gentile pet’s (iffen) language.

    Iffen has come up with the new phony words that slay the truth talkers – 88’s (Nazis).

    It is true that “anti-Semite” has lost its edge – it is so ubiquitously used against any quibble that it has no meaning. Say a truth about a Jew and you will called an anti-Semite in a NY minute.

    What words are coming next “anti-holocaust.” Using the word “Semite” is a lie – 95% of Semites are Arabs. His problem is that holocaust is another lie that cannot be backed up by the truth – only intimidation.

    Mr. Sam’s problems are growing.

    Art

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  189. Wally says: • Website
    @Canute
    Over the years I have read several books and articles regarding the USS Liberty incident. I have always been impressed by two aspects of the information available - a) the preponderance of evidence that the attack was deliberate and b) the extremes that Israel has employed to vilify or otherwise discredit anyone who raises questions regarding a). That caused me to go back and start reading histories about the Zionist cause over the decades and now, well over a century. The victim card is always at the top of the deck when Israel begins a response and the attacks rarely address the questions raise or the issues involved, but instead depend heavily on declarations of hatred and anti-semitism. At the end of several years of study and researching, I have only one question. Why did 19 western nations quickly and suddenly pass laws making it a criminal offense to question or even critically research the "Holocaust?" The is no other historical event that requires such legal protection - no where, at any time in history can I find another example.

    Even Jews are jumping ship.

    From the book by Revisionist Jew, Gerard Menuhin, the son of the famed Jewish violinist Yehuda Menuhin:

    TELL THE TRUTH & SHAME THE DEVIL
    By GERARD MENUHIN
    Copyright 2015 by GERARD MENUHIN and THE BARNES REVIEW
    Published by:
    THE BARNES REVIEW, P.O. Box 15877, Washington, D.C. 20003
    available at: https://shop.codoh.com/book/406

    quotes from .pdf version, pagination may be slightly different:
    p.173
    “Those ultimately responsible for this hopeless situation have succeeded in their conspiracy: they have created, with the aid of “holocaust” professionals and propaganda, the necessary climate of guilt whereby never-ending legal as well as illegal immigration goes unchallenged, resulting in a fractured society, civil unrest and inadequate social funds. The desired massive debt is therefore programmed. Jewish influence has achieved the dissolution of a once cohesive community.”

    p.305
    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.”

    p.458
    “Jewish huckstering is most obviously apparent in its frenzied compulsion to uphold the “holocaust” myth, whose exposure would not only refute the Jews’ claim to Palestine and to endless financial reparations and atonement for harm not done to them, it would also deliver Jews and their minions to the fury of a world deceived and victimized for centuries by their lies and conspiracies.”

    p.303, paperback ed.
    “Alone the fact that one may not question the Jewish “holocaust” and that Jewish pressure has inflicted laws on democratic societies to prevent questions—while incessant promotion and indoctrination of the same averredly incontestable ‘holocaust’ occur—gives the game away. It proves that it must be a lie. Why else would one not be allowed to question it? Because it might offend the “survivors”? Because it “dishonors the dead”? Hardly sufficient reason to outlaw discussion. No, because the exposure of this leading lie might precipitate questions about so many other lies and cause the whole ramshackle fabrication to crumble.

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  190. Rurik says:
    @alexander
    I think Israels terrorist attack against our Liberty had multiple purposes,Rurik.

    The first was to sink our intelligence vessel, to prevent us from gaining hard intelligence on who ,in fact, was intent on initiated the war..

    The second was to disguise this attack as an Egyptian assault, so our enmity would point towards Egypt, and not Israel.

    These seem to be the most glaring rationales.......

    But check out my comment #147 on this thread...and see if you do not agree with its premise..

    It is the sheer level of Israels impunity, even when caught, which is perhaps our greatest worry, today.

    The first was to sink our intelligence vessel, to prevent us from gaining hard intelligence on who ,in fact, was intent on initiated the war..

    I doubt that one Alexander, only because no matter what Israel did, the US government and media would have lied to protect them.

    The second was to disguise this attack as an Egyptian assault, so our enmity would point towards Egypt, and not Israel.

    that’s it alright !

    Doesn’t it make clear that ANY terrorist attack since that time, if it were an Israeli false-flag event, would be covered up completely ……in EXACTLY the same manner as was the Liberty incident ?

    I’m glad you brought that up, because when people claim that there’s just no way that if elements in our government and media were to have known that 911 was an inside job at the highest levels (perhaps excluding the chimp), that they could have ever managed for cover it all up and sell a vile lie that it was someone else, like Saddam who did it. But the attack on the USS Liberty is just such a case of an act of war (and unprecedented act of cowardly treachery) that, like 911 was perpetrated by Israel to the continuing cover-ups by our own government and media. When they got away completely with something like the attack on the USS Liberty, they knew they could get away with anything.

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    No doubt about it.

    As a matter of fact the terror attack on our Liberty, set the precedent.

    Zero accountability and total impunity.


    For Israel ,or rather, the ultra belligerent elements within it, false flag terror attacks have become a way of life, and from all the signs I have seen ,a Highly profitable one to boot.

    If one were to define Absolute Power in our age of terror, it is precisely this.

    And the impunity guarantees its perpetuation.

    ...when one controls , fabricates, and stages not only all the "major" terror events that occur but even all our responses to it,....there is no doubt who runs the show.

    Soup to nuts...and tens of trillions too.

    Quite a business, Rurik......quite a business.
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  191. @5371
    You are not tall enough to go on this ride.

    Back to being so cryptic that the nature of your offensiveness is obscure!

    But your little show of knowledge in detail did show that you were wrong I think. Or are you going to take on the formidable Greg Cochran and tell him that the figures he has quoted on this thread – initially as gcichran – are unknowable from the data/evidence available. I wouldn’t risk it if I were you. He hasn’t signed the Geneva Convention wrt POWs.

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    • Replies: @5371
    So you're the same as the mysterious hasbarite biz? I'm ashamed of you, Wiz.
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  192. Technomad says:

    The reason the attack was suppressed in the press and elsewhere was simple. LBJ hadn’t decided not to run again, and even if he had already decided against another run, he had dedicated his life to the Democrats (Arabic: Hezb-i-Shaitan) and did not want to blow up the FDR coalition by alienating the “Jewish vote,” which was believed then to be heavily contingent on blind, mindless loyalty to Israel.

    If the Jewish vote had been a Republican constituency, LBJ would have blared the Liberty assault from every pulpit he could find.

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  193. taxonomy26 says: • Website

    U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry
    to inquire into the circumstances surrounding
    the armed attack on the USS Liberty (AGTR-5) on 8 June 1967
    [......]

    FINDINGS OF FACT

    1. Available evidence combines to indicate the attack on LIBERTY on
    8 June was in fact a case of Mistaken identity.

    2. The Calm conditions and Slow ship speed may well have made the
    American Flag difficult to identify.

    3. The ship’s westerly heading at the time of attack – in the general
    direction of Egyptian ports may have reinforced elements of
    doubt in the minds of the several Israeli pilots who looked the
    ship over in the forenoon.

    4. The colors were shot down Early in the action and were replaced
    prior to the PT attack.

    5. The immediate confusion milling around astern followed by
    peaceful overtures by the attacking surface forces after launching
    only two torpedoes of the six presumed available (two
    on each PT boat), indicate these craft may well have identified
    the colors for the First time when they got in close enough to see clearly
    through the smoke and flames billowing, at times above the mast head.

    6. There are NO available indications that the attack was Intended
    against a U. S. Ship.

    7. LIBERTY’S position at the time of the attack has been previously
    ordered Changed farther to seaward by JCS; however, the messages
    relating to these changes were Not known to the ship before the attack took place.
    The reasons these messages were not known to the ship can be determined
    in all instances except for one. Since LIBERTY records and knowledgeable personnel
    were lost in the action, it is Impossible to determine the disposition of the message.

    8. The communication delays and mis-routing ERRORS which caused these several
    non-deliveries combined with delays in initiating follow-up actions on operational
    instructions received, all contributed to the Ship Itself being Unaware of plans and
    decisions made for her Repositioning. A detailed accounting of the five pertinent
    messages are attached as appendices one through five.
    [.......]
    and 44 More.
    [.......]

    [signatures]

    Isaac C Kidd
    Rear Admiral , U.S. Navy
    President

    Bernard J Lauff
    Captain, U.S. Navy
    member

    Bert S Atkinson , Jr.
    Captain, U.S. Navy
    member

    Ward Boston, Jr.
    Captain, U.S. Navy
    Counsel for the Court

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  194. taxonomy26 says: • Website

    http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=161&x_context=3

    [CAPTAIN] MCGONAGLE:
    [......]
    “..I did not have an accurate ship’s position at this time, but I knew that to the left of the ship’s course at that time lie shoal waters and by turning to the left I would be approaching land closer than had been given me in directives which I held in that instant in time. I realized that if I attempted to turn to starboard, I would expose a larger target to the torpedo boats. I elected to maintain a heading of 283 at maximum speed. When the boats reached an approximate range of 2,000 yards, the center boat of the formation was Signalling to us.

    Also, at this range, it appeared that they were flying an Israli (sic) flag. This was later verified. It was not possible to read the signals from the center torpedo boat because of the intermittent blocking of view by smoke and flames.
    At this time, I yelled to machine gun 51 to tell him to Hold Fire.

    I realized that there was a Possibility of the aircraft having been Israeli and the attack had been Conducted in Error.
    I wanted to Hold Fire to see if we could read the Signal from the torpedo boat and perhaps avoid additional damage and personnel injuries.

    The man on machine gun 51 fired a short burst at the boats Before he was able to understand what I was attempting to have him do. Instantly, on machine gun 51 opening fire machine gun 53 began firing at the center boat.
    From the starboard wing of the bridge, 03 level,
    I observed that the fire from machine gun 53 was extremely Effective and Blanketed the area and the center torpedo boat.

    It was not possible to get to mount 53 from the starboard wing of the bridge. I sent Mr. LUCAS around the port-side of the bridge, around to the skylights, to see if he could tell QUINTERO, whom I believed to be the gunner on machine gun 53, to hold fire until we were able to clarify the situation. He reported back in a few minutes in effect that he saw no one at mount 53.

    As far as the torpedo boats were concerned, I am sure that they felt They were under fire from the USS LIBERTY. At THIS time They opened fire with their gun mounts and in a matter of seconds one torpedo was noted crossing astern of the ship at about 25 yards.”…..
    – – – – – -

    Liberty Lobby PORKED by CAPTAIN of Liberty
    – – -

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  195. Anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer
    @Steve Richter
    I think you have to understand the six day war to understand the attack on the Liberty. The war was a pretext designed to enable Israel to take the West Bank from Jordan. Security wise Israel had a very good setup where Jordan controlled the West Bank. Jordan kept the peace. And it was integrating Palestinians into Jordan. Palestinians had half the seat in the Jordanian parliament at the time. There were very few attacks by Palestinians on Israelis in the years leading up to the war.

    But Israel wanted/needed the land. I think it was planning the war years in advance. It needed as much secrecy as possible to attack the West Bank and blame it on Jordan. They had to attack the Liberty to get it out of the area.

    Israel Beggged Jordan NOT to enter the War.
    Israel immediately offered back said territories in exchange for mere recognition.
    Arabs Refused in Aug ’67.
    See ‘Khartoum three nos’.

    Only thus and incredibly slowly, ‘occupation’.

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    • Replies: @Steve Richter
    Compare the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians before the occupation and since. Obviously much more lethal violence since. Add on the increasing international isolation and hostility toward Israel and Jews. ( being driven out of France ).

    The decision to take the West Bank was not based on security. It is land. Which is not to be critical of that decision. Everyone should just state the facts. The Liberty had to be attacked because the pretext Israel needed to take the West Bank was only going to last for a day or so. Israel could not risk the world knowing what it was about to do by attacking the West Bank.
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  196. taxonomy26 says: • Website
    @David Evans
    Zionist-owned Congress' wars for Israel's balkanizing Oded Yinon Plan get us attacked in RETALIATION. To end the wars and terrorist attacks on the west heed the words of ex-CIA bin Laden Unit Chief Michael Scheuer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ

    This is the plan, complemented by the Jewish neocon's A Clean Break Plan (google it) that is bankrupting the US on multi-trillion-dollar wars while US cities and infrastructure rot.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

    LOL.
    Conspiracy website Globalresearch and boobtube.

    Read More
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  197. uslabor says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    Then shutup about the holocaust already.

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  198. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Back to being so cryptic that the nature of your offensiveness is obscure!

    But your little show of knowledge in detail did show that you were wrong I think. Or are you going to take on the formidable Greg Cochran and tell him that the figures he has quoted on this thread - initially as gcichran - are unknowable from the data/evidence available. I wouldn't risk it if I were you. He hasn't signed the Geneva Convention wrt POWs.

    So you’re the same as the mysterious hasbarite biz? I’m ashamed of you, Wiz.

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    All non-fantastical claims about genetics are now 'Hasbara' apparently. The bar ever lowers.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    Despite your ADHD, dyspraxia or whatever it is that dominates your commenting style you might care to attend to someone who knows what he's talking about. Greg Cochran, as I said to your deaf ears, and you can now find more #204.
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  199. Anonymous says: • Website • Disclaimer

    Do Something to Honor the USS LIBERTY and END USA Govt. COVERUP- sign and share:

    WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of the USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

    FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel’s possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel;

    SECOND: That every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS Liberty, thereafter threatened her surviving officers and men if they exposed the truth, and covered up the true circumstances of the attack from the American people; and

    THIRD: That the eighth day of June of every year be proclaimed to be hereafter known as “USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY, in order to commemorate the Liberty’s heroic crew and to educate the American people of the danger to our national security inherent in any passionate attachment of our elected officials for any foreign nation.”

    widely:http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/end-usa-govt-coverup-honor-uss-liberty

    Read More
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  200. iffen says:

    Is anyone here aware of a resolution of the contradiction between reports that the attacking planes had no markings and the report that a Jewish officer on the ship was observed weeping after seeing the Star of David on the planes? It would seem that whether there was a Jewish officer on board or not could be determined.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art

    iffen: It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.
     
    Is anyone here aware of a resolution of the contradiction between reports that the attacking planes had no markings and the report that a Jewish officer on the ship was observed weeping after seeing the Star of David on the planes?

    Your inquiry is totally "anti-Semitic!"

    Are you a closet Jew hater?
    , @Ace
    Were the type of fighters the Israelis had also possessed by others combatants in that war? If not, any man on the Liberty would have been able to determine the nationality of the pilots even if the planes' markings were obscured.
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  201. alexander says:
    @Rurik

    The first was to sink our intelligence vessel, to prevent us from gaining hard intelligence on who ,in fact, was intent on initiated the war..
     
    I doubt that one Alexander, only because no matter what Israel did, the US government and media would have lied to protect them.

    The second was to disguise this attack as an Egyptian assault, so our enmity would point towards Egypt, and not Israel.
     
    that's it alright !

    Doesn’t it make clear that ANY terrorist attack since that time, if it were an Israeli false-flag event, would be covered up completely ……in EXACTLY the same manner as was the Liberty incident ?
     
    I'm glad you brought that up, because when people claim that there's just no way that if elements in our government and media were to have known that 911 was an inside job at the highest levels (perhaps excluding the chimp), that they could have ever managed for cover it all up and sell a vile lie that it was someone else, like Saddam who did it. But the attack on the USS Liberty is just such a case of an act of war (and unprecedented act of cowardly treachery) that, like 911 was perpetrated by Israel to the continuing cover-ups by our own government and media. When they got away completely with something like the attack on the USS Liberty, they knew they could get away with anything.

    No doubt about it.

    As a matter of fact the terror attack on our Liberty, set the precedent.

    Zero accountability and total impunity.

    For Israel ,or rather, the ultra belligerent elements within it, false flag terror attacks have become a way of life, and from all the signs I have seen ,a Highly profitable one to boot.

    If one were to define Absolute Power in our age of terror, it is precisely this.

    And the impunity guarantees its perpetuation.

    …when one controls , fabricates, and stages not only all the “major” terror events that occur but even all our responses to it,….there is no doubt who runs the show.

    Soup to nuts…and tens of trillions too.

    Quite a business, Rurik……quite a business.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Carroll Price
    And let's not forget about the hit (in broad daylight) of a sitting US president in the process of winding down a banker's war in Southeast Asia. After pulling that one off, with nary a hitch, they knew anything would be possible, including 9/11.
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  202. biz says:
    @5371
    So you're the same as the mysterious hasbarite biz? I'm ashamed of you, Wiz.

    All non-fantastical claims about genetics are now ‘Hasbara’ apparently. The bar ever lowers.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    You don't make many comments on this site other than to defend Israel, biz or whatever you want to be called. Why might that be?
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  203. Regardless of which political party is it power, as long as Jews remain in control of the US government, as well as every other government in the Western world, you can forget about any meaningful investigation of the USS Liberty, 9/11, Boston Bombing, Black Ops Mass Shootings, and numerous other false-flag operations to occur in the US and Western countries over the past 70+ years.

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  204. @Sam Shama
    You are well within your rights to practice the faith of your choice. In this case a childlike belief that all of these videos are genuine.

    A great many atrocities have been inflicted on the Pals, but I would suggest not swallowing every story as true.

    Sam, a person could exaggerate thousands of times the atrocities and lies committed and told by Jews over the past 5000 years, and still come-up far short of portraying reality. As a sort of refresher, start by reading or re-reading the Old Testament, where you will find thousands of atrocities committed and lies recorded by Jewish scribes. And when it comes to proving that bold face lying by the Chosen is still very much in vogue, read or re-read the holocau$t fable which withstands serious inquiry about as well as do Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, or Alice In Wonderland.

    Read More
    • Replies: @taxonomy26
    It's so rare to see knuckle-dragging Joo haters like you any more without going to Stormfront, etc.
    And you never back anything you say.
    You're just a Tourettes Syndrome Jew Hater.

    I support anyone's right to Make a Case for any opinion, but you just repeat the tritest old canards with NO backing whatsoever.
    It's a shame they let trailer park trash like you post here.
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  205. gcochran says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    So that's where you got the 48 per cent and/or 50 to 60 per cent European ancestry from? I.e averaging predominantly ME male and predominantly European female?

    What proportion Celtic? And....

    What can you tell us about the many smart Jews of Spain and their descendants as to genes and IQs? Were they originally just like the Ashkenazi forebears? And/or was there at some and what time a split? How far did the expelled Sephardis join up with Ashkenazi?

    Shai Carmi did an autosomal analysis to get that 48%, but he used a peculiar model . For the European model population, he used Flemings, while if you wanted to find out the most accurate answer, you would have used a European population that was closer to the group that furnished most of the admixture – Italian. So the real fraction of European ancestry is somewhat higher than 48%. On the other hand he’s much more honest than Behar, who is a liar, or El-Haik, who is just plain crazy.

    In general averaging the mtDNA and Y-chromosome numbers does not necessarily give you the right fraction of autosomal ancestry, although it’s usually in the right ballpark. You can come up with artificial scenarios in which the mtDNA all comes from population A, all the Y chromosomes from population B, and all the autosomal DNA from population C.

    Today you could get a far more accurate number for the Y chromosome ancestry, by sequencing the entire Y chromosome, rather than just looking at STRs. I haven’t seen anyone do this yet.

    proportion Celtic? hardly any, probably.

    The Sephardic Jews of Spain have a somewhat similar ancestry admixture, but I think it’s like repeating a recipe, rather than a common origin: some middle eastern plus european, but not quite the same middle easterners and not the same Europeans. Just as mestizos in Mexico and Chile do not have a common origin.

    A few Sephardics moved to Poland upon expulsion, not many.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    Many thanks Greg. Lots of potential links and questions for me to follow up.

    One immediate question. Where did the observably large amount of red facial hair (and blue eyes) come from in Ashkenazim if not from Celts?

    What about my speculation that there was lots of Celtic ancestry in those "Italians" you mention based on e.g. the not entirely mythical sack of Rome by Cisalpine Gauls variously dated between 410 and 387BC?
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  206. 5371 says:
    @biz
    All non-fantastical claims about genetics are now 'Hasbara' apparently. The bar ever lowers.

    You don’t make many comments on this site other than to defend Israel, biz or whatever you want to be called. Why might that be?

    Read More
    • Replies: @biz
    Actually I make comments on other topics, which you can see by clicking on my comment history.

    I see my mission as fundamentally pushing back against lies, disinformation, and incorrectness. I did it here in this thread with regard to your incorrectness (or possibly lies) about how to determine the ancestry proportions of a given population. I do it elsewhere on other topics, on this site and other places.

    As for a supposed focus on Israel, that is because a stunningly high proportion of the lies, disinformation, and incorrectness out there seems to be about Israel and Jews, so I do comment a lot - but not exclusively - about these topics. I leave it for now to the reader to speculate why these particular topics tend to draw so many misinformed and/or dishonest comments, such as yours in this thread.

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  207. taxonomy26 says: • Website
    @Carroll Price
    Sam, a person could exaggerate thousands of times the atrocities and lies committed and told by Jews over the past 5000 years, and still come-up far short of portraying reality. As a sort of refresher, start by reading or re-reading the Old Testament, where you will find thousands of atrocities committed and lies recorded by Jewish scribes. And when it comes to proving that bold face lying by the Chosen is still very much in vogue, read or re-read the holocau$t fable which withstands serious inquiry about as well as do Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, or Alice In Wonderland.

    It’s so rare to see knuckle-dragging Joo haters like you any more without going to Stormfront, etc.
    And you never back anything you say.
    You’re just a Tourettes Syndrome Jew Hater.

    I support anyone’s right to Make a Case for any opinion, but you just repeat the tritest old canards with NO backing whatsoever.
    It’s a shame they let trailer park trash like you post here.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    It’s a shame they let trailer park trash like you post here.

    Hey Little Jew - you have to do better then that these days. That hardly cutes it here.

    It is back to hasbara class for you little lemming.

    Come back when you can run with the big lemmings.

    (Be sure and tuck in your little brown shirt --- good boy.)

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  208. @alexander
    No doubt about it.

    As a matter of fact the terror attack on our Liberty, set the precedent.

    Zero accountability and total impunity.


    For Israel ,or rather, the ultra belligerent elements within it, false flag terror attacks have become a way of life, and from all the signs I have seen ,a Highly profitable one to boot.

    If one were to define Absolute Power in our age of terror, it is precisely this.

    And the impunity guarantees its perpetuation.

    ...when one controls , fabricates, and stages not only all the "major" terror events that occur but even all our responses to it,....there is no doubt who runs the show.

    Soup to nuts...and tens of trillions too.

    Quite a business, Rurik......quite a business.

    And let’s not forget about the hit (in broad daylight) of a sitting US president in the process of winding down a banker’s war in Southeast Asia. After pulling that one off, with nary a hitch, they knew anything would be possible, including 9/11.

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    What Motivated the 9/11 Hijackers? See Testimony Most Didn't:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=PlayList&p=F81BB573C9C0C7B2&index=0&playnext=1

    Main Motive of 9/11 Denial:


    https://www.facebook.com/RepresentativePress/posts/1166665116699322
    , @alexander
    Carroll,

    I can say to a certainty the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, was the work of Jewish terrorism.


    Certainly we are all aware a showdown was looming between JFK and Israel in regards to Israels nuclear capacity.

    No President was more crystal clear and more adamant that Israel should never have a nuclear weapon.

    It was even reported Kennedy once said that Israel would get the bomb over his "dead body".

    But correct me if I am wrong, wasn't it LBJ, Kennedy's "successor", who all but approved of the Israeli terror attack on the Liberty ? Didn't he , in fact, allow it to continue uncontested by US warplanes in the vicinity.....or was that McNamara ?

    Wasn't it also LBJ who went silent ,in total acquiescence ,while Israel succeeded in acquiring the bomb ?

    These things are the facts of history...are they not ?
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  209. Art says:
    @iffen
    Is anyone here aware of a resolution of the contradiction between reports that the attacking planes had no markings and the report that a Jewish officer on the ship was observed weeping after seeing the Star of David on the planes? It would seem that whether there was a Jewish officer on board or not could be determined.

    iffen: It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.

    Is anyone here aware of a resolution of the contradiction between reports that the attacking planes had no markings and the report that a Jewish officer on the ship was observed weeping after seeing the Star of David on the planes?

    Your inquiry is totally “anti-Semitic!”

    Are you a closet Jew hater?

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Art:

    It is true that “anti-Semite” has lost its edge – it is so ubiquitously used against any quibble that it has no meaning.
     
    Art:


    Your inquiry is totally “anti-Semitic!”
     
    Art, I warned you about playing with words; it just highlights your imbecility.

    These statements by you were made only a few hours apart, most people take a few months or years or at least days to forget what they have said.

    I see that you finally accepted that idea that I am not Jewish.

    Let's try some more, you can cut and paste them for further study:

    I am not a closet anti-Semite; I am not a philo-Semite; I am an anti anti-Semite when they are in my way.

    It is 88s, not 88's.
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  210. @Carroll Price
    And let's not forget about the hit (in broad daylight) of a sitting US president in the process of winding down a banker's war in Southeast Asia. After pulling that one off, with nary a hitch, they knew anything would be possible, including 9/11.
    Read More
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  211. Art says:
    @taxonomy26
    It's so rare to see knuckle-dragging Joo haters like you any more without going to Stormfront, etc.
    And you never back anything you say.
    You're just a Tourettes Syndrome Jew Hater.

    I support anyone's right to Make a Case for any opinion, but you just repeat the tritest old canards with NO backing whatsoever.
    It's a shame they let trailer park trash like you post here.

    It’s a shame they let trailer park trash like you post here.

    Hey Little Jew – you have to do better then that these days. That hardly cutes it here.

    It is back to hasbara class for you little lemming.

    Come back when you can run with the big lemmings.

    (Be sure and tuck in your little brown shirt — good boy.)

    Read More
    • Replies: @Taxonomy26
    I put up tons of Facts, incl the Naval Court of Inquiry Findings, and the Testimony of the Liberty's CAPTAIN.
    NO ANSWER to either.
    Got no game Adolph?

    You put up Nothing but Inuendo and More trailer Park Trash.

    You Tourettes Twins with the Carroll Price/Eva Braun creature?

    You both post NO meaty facts, only garbage.

    It's funny, you have to wait for mods to be posted, but what do they Not allow?

    This is the worst garabage I've see ANYWHERE, even Unmoderated.

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  212. alexander says:
    @Carroll Price
    And let's not forget about the hit (in broad daylight) of a sitting US president in the process of winding down a banker's war in Southeast Asia. After pulling that one off, with nary a hitch, they knew anything would be possible, including 9/11.

    Carroll,

    I can say to a certainty the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, was the work of Jewish terrorism.

    Certainly we are all aware a showdown was looming between JFK and Israel in regards to Israels nuclear capacity.

    No President was more crystal clear and more adamant that Israel should never have a nuclear weapon.

    It was even reported Kennedy once said that Israel would get the bomb over his “dead body”.

    But correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t it LBJ, Kennedy’s “successor”, who all but approved of the Israeli terror attack on the Liberty ? Didn’t he , in fact, allow it to continue uncontested by US warplanes in the vicinity…..or was that McNamara ?

    Wasn’t it also LBJ who went silent ,in total acquiescence ,while Israel succeeded in acquiring the bomb ?

    These things are the facts of history…are they not ?

    Read More
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  213. iffen says:
    @Art

    iffen: It is not anti-Semitic to question and inquire about the Liberty incident; the anti-Semitism derives from the motivation to question and inquire.
     
    Is anyone here aware of a resolution of the contradiction between reports that the attacking planes had no markings and the report that a Jewish officer on the ship was observed weeping after seeing the Star of David on the planes?

    Your inquiry is totally "anti-Semitic!"

    Are you a closet Jew hater?

    Art:

    It is true that “anti-Semite” has lost its edge – it is so ubiquitously used against any quibble that it has no meaning.

    Art:

    Your inquiry is totally “anti-Semitic!”

    Art, I warned you about playing with words; it just highlights your imbecility.

    These statements by you were made only a few hours apart, most people take a few months or years or at least days to forget what they have said.

    I see that you finally accepted that idea that I am not Jewish.

    Let’s try some more, you can cut and paste them for further study:

    I am not a closet anti-Semite; I am not a philo-Semite; I am an anti anti-Semite when they are in my way.

    It is 88s, not 88′s.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    I see that you finally accepted that idea that I am not Jewish.

    iffen,

    Yes – it was your post saying that you were an evangelical on your way to becoming an atheist. No Jew would say that. A godless man protecting those claiming to be “god’s chosen.” How crazy.

    You truly are on a path backwards – abandoning your people for those who do them harm. You are an intelligent man who refuses to see the harm Jews do. Poor you.

    A lot of evangelicals are old testament types who pass over Jesus for ancient ways. They pass over modern philosophical idealism for ancient primordial tribalism. Christian idealism has produced what freedom and prosperity humankind enjoys. It is not perfect – just better.

    You must be busting with pride that your Little Jew mentor – Sam - is embracing you 88s attacks. Although, Little Sam may be getting in trouble with the Big Jews for going off script.

    Hmm - a godless Gentile and a “chosen” Jew – cuddling – who would have thought?

    Art
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  214. iffen says:

    Hey Art,

    Thanks for slapping # 207′s hand, I thought I was going to have to attend to it.

    As usual your comment was not very useful, but sometimes it is the effort that matters.

    Who does he think he is? Coming in here insulting the Jew haters; like I am not doing a good enough job.

    Anyway, thanks; more like this and we can be BFF? Naw, never mind, we will just be like the USSR and the US and work together against the real evil.

    Art, the sad part for me is that no one responded to my question about the plane’s markings. It’s just like they don’t really care all that much about what really happened; the incident is just one more bead on a rosary of hate facts. It couldn’t be that could it, Art?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    [...the sad part for me is that no one responded to my question about the plane’s markings]

    Hi Iffen,
    Just saw this. Reading the transcripts certainly gave me no clues as to whether the contingent was flying incognito. There was something I read in an Israeli blog which seemed to say that they most certainly were [it is a lefty blog, so take it with a grain - a large one] but I shall follow up.

    [btw you do have patience replying to this 'Art' avatar, deliberately created to not suppress raw anti-semitism cloaked in unctuous piety and crocodile tears. I listened to his emissions with all the equanimity I could muster for over a year, but decided recently to gaol him in the 'Ignore' button up on the left hand corner. Missing chromosomes......]

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  215. @Rehmat
    In case you didn't notice - Canada has long become a Zionist Jewish colony like the US, UK, France, Australia and Germany.

    https://rehmat1.com/2016/06/14/canada-iran-to-pay-13-million-to-victims-of-israeli-terrorism/

    Canada is a strange world, we have a narcissistic self appraisal of ourselves – our freedoms, our decency, our human rights, we are everything that America is not – but if one looks underneath the surface the reality is quite different – I recently crossed the boarder from America to my home in eastern Canada, without my passport – this created a situation for myself, wherein I actually feared for my personal safety. Canadian boarder guards were screaming at me, physically accosting me and for the most part taking away all agency over my life. I have crossed boarders in many different countries, I was always treated well and was never afraid for my personal safety, in my home country, a very different experience. I found out soon after, I have no rights and the guards can do as they please. Compliance to authority is of the utmost importance – according to our highest court.

    That said, you are correct, Canada is an occupied nation – Harper, our last leader, belongs to the Alliance Church – the church’s doctrinal statements hew to the line that through the destruction of Israel is their salvation.

    Harper was an advisor to Preston Manning in the nineteen eighties ( Preston Manning’s father was leader of the Social Credit Party in Alberta – An anti-semitic organization, until the end of WWII)

    Another notable character in Canadian politics is Stockwell Day, whose father was a friend to Jim Keegstra – a schoolteacher in a small backwater town of about 700 people. Jim Keegsta was demonized in the 1980s during Israel’s horrific invasion of Lebanon. Keegsta’s case was a cause célèbre and effectively distracted from Israel’s crimes in the Middle East and gave comfort to Israeli interests.

    Fast-forward to December 13, 2002, the Zionist owned media (Izzy Asper) did a hit peace on David Ahenakew, (First Nations Leader from Saskatchewan) accusing him of spreading hate speech, (the conversation was private, between himself and a reporter) The government revoked his Order of Canada Medal and the poor man died in disgrace. This incident, like the Keegsrta case, was a warning to those who would question Israeli motivations and crimes. Many Canadians did not support the second war in Iraq and knowledgeable commentators were accusing the Americans of going to war for Israeli interests. This and several other incidents chilled any conversation regarding the real motivation for Iraqi War II.

    However, our current prime Minister is promising – his brother Alexandre Trudeau is a reporter who has a decidedly more realistic perspective on Israel. The Zionist media is having a fit over this brotherly connection and are attacking Alexandre’s character. This is illustrated by an obvious hit piece in the Huffington Post in 2012.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/mike-fegelman/alexandre-trudeau_b_2018038.html

    This isn’t Trudeau’s first offense. In 2004, he produced The Fence a totally unbalanced view of life on the Israeli and Arab sides of Israel’s security barrier favouring the Palestinian narrative. In the same production he profiled Zakaria Zubeidi, then leader of the terrorist group Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades portraying him as a Robin Hood-like “leader of the resistance.” He never once told viewers that Zubeidi’s organization had murdered Arabs, Israeli Jews and foreigners, including a Canadian citizen killed in a bus bombing. Trudeau is also known for his offering public praise for Fidel Castro and for his criticism of the Israeli naval blockade of the Hamas-held Gaza Strip. Zubeidi’s organization had murdered Arabs, Israeli Jews and foreigners, including a Canadian citizen killed in a bus bombing. Trudeau is also known for his offering public praise for Fidel Castro and for his criticism of the Israeli naval blockade of the Hamas-held Gaza Strip.

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  216. Art says:
    @iffen
    Art:

    It is true that “anti-Semite” has lost its edge – it is so ubiquitously used against any quibble that it has no meaning.
     
    Art:


    Your inquiry is totally “anti-Semitic!”
     
    Art, I warned you about playing with words; it just highlights your imbecility.

    These statements by you were made only a few hours apart, most people take a few months or years or at least days to forget what they have said.

    I see that you finally accepted that idea that I am not Jewish.

    Let's try some more, you can cut and paste them for further study:

    I am not a closet anti-Semite; I am not a philo-Semite; I am an anti anti-Semite when they are in my way.

    It is 88s, not 88's.

    I see that you finally accepted that idea that I am not Jewish.

    iffen,

    Yes – it was your post saying that you were an evangelical on your way to becoming an atheist. No Jew would say that. A godless man protecting those claiming to be “god’s chosen.” How crazy.

    You truly are on a path backwards – abandoning your people for those who do them harm. You are an intelligent man who refuses to see the harm Jews do. Poor you.

    A lot of evangelicals are old testament types who pass over Jesus for ancient ways. They pass over modern philosophical idealism for ancient primordial tribalism. Christian idealism has produced what freedom and prosperity humankind enjoys. It is not perfect – just better.

    You must be busting with pride that your Little Jew mentor – Sam – is embracing you 88s attacks. Although, Little Sam may be getting in trouble with the Big Jews for going off script.

    Hmm – a godless Gentile and a “chosen” Jew – cuddling – who would have thought?

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    You really don't know any Jews personally or know anything about them free from mad theories do you?

    I have had professional reasons for knowing lots of Jews and I can say with certainty that there are vast numbers of Jewish atheists including inside Israel though my certain knowledge is about non Israeli Jews. As an atheist of non intensive Anglican/Episcopalian background I continue to puzzle over the apparent belief of many intelligent educated people in an Abrahamic god....

    The puzzle over sticking to being Jewish as an atheist is a slightly different puzzle but still puzzling to me. But maybe Disraeli provided a pride in "race" [tribe] explanation???? I've detected it in the Welsh and Viking descendants too, and Australian part Aborigines even.

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  217. Taxonomy26 says: • Website
    @Art
    It’s a shame they let trailer park trash like you post here.

    Hey Little Jew - you have to do better then that these days. That hardly cutes it here.

    It is back to hasbara class for you little lemming.

    Come back when you can run with the big lemmings.

    (Be sure and tuck in your little brown shirt --- good boy.)

    I put up tons of Facts, incl the Naval Court of Inquiry Findings, and the Testimony of the Liberty’s CAPTAIN.
    NO ANSWER to either.
    Got no game Adolph?

    You put up Nothing but Inuendo and More trailer Park Trash.

    You Tourettes Twins with the Carroll Price/Eva Braun creature?

    You both post NO meaty facts, only garbage.

    It’s funny, you have to wait for mods to be posted, but what do they Not allow?

    This is the worst garabage I’ve see ANYWHERE, even Unmoderated.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    If biz is on the varsity squad of hasbarists, you, Lover of Random Capitalisation, are from the scrub team.
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  218. @5371
    So you're the same as the mysterious hasbarite biz? I'm ashamed of you, Wiz.

    Despite your ADHD, dyspraxia or whatever it is that dominates your commenting style you might care to attend to someone who knows what he’s talking about. Greg Cochran, as I said to your deaf ears, and you can now find more #204.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    That you perceive the argument from authority not only as unanswerable but as the only one possible does not surprise me, Wiz.
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  219. @Art
    I see that you finally accepted that idea that I am not Jewish.

    iffen,

    Yes – it was your post saying that you were an evangelical on your way to becoming an atheist. No Jew would say that. A godless man protecting those claiming to be “god’s chosen.” How crazy.

    You truly are on a path backwards – abandoning your people for those who do them harm. You are an intelligent man who refuses to see the harm Jews do. Poor you.

    A lot of evangelicals are old testament types who pass over Jesus for ancient ways. They pass over modern philosophical idealism for ancient primordial tribalism. Christian idealism has produced what freedom and prosperity humankind enjoys. It is not perfect – just better.

    You must be busting with pride that your Little Jew mentor – Sam - is embracing you 88s attacks. Although, Little Sam may be getting in trouble with the Big Jews for going off script.

    Hmm - a godless Gentile and a “chosen” Jew – cuddling – who would have thought?

    Art

    You really don’t know any Jews personally or know anything about them free from mad theories do you?

    I have had professional reasons for knowing lots of Jews and I can say with certainty that there are vast numbers of Jewish atheists including inside Israel though my certain knowledge is about non Israeli Jews. As an atheist of non intensive Anglican/Episcopalian background I continue to puzzle over the apparent belief of many intelligent educated people in an Abrahamic god….

    The puzzle over sticking to being Jewish as an atheist is a slightly different puzzle but still puzzling to me. But maybe Disraeli provided a pride in “race” [tribe] explanation???? I’ve detected it in the Welsh and Viking descendants too, and Australian part Aborigines even.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    I have had professional reasons for knowing lots of Jews and I can say with certainty that there are vast numbers of Jewish atheists including inside Israel

    Wiz,

    I am sure that any words that I may have on God, Jews, and Israel will be wasted on you.

    I guess there is something to being on the wining bandwagon – it must be fun.

    You chose yours – I chose mine.

    I am an idealist Christian – so the meek are my people.

    Art
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  220. @gcochran
    Shai Carmi did an autosomal analysis to get that 48%, but he used a peculiar model . For the European model population, he used Flemings, while if you wanted to find out the most accurate answer, you would have used a European population that was closer to the group that furnished most of the admixture - Italian. So the real fraction of European ancestry is somewhat higher than 48%. On the other hand he's much more honest than Behar, who is a liar, or El-Haik, who is just plain crazy.

    In general averaging the mtDNA and Y-chromosome numbers does not necessarily give you the right fraction of autosomal ancestry, although it's usually in the right ballpark. You can come up with artificial scenarios in which the mtDNA all comes from population A, all the Y chromosomes from population B, and all the autosomal DNA from population C.

    Today you could get a far more accurate number for the Y chromosome ancestry, by sequencing the entire Y chromosome, rather than just looking at STRs. I haven't seen anyone do this yet.

    proportion Celtic? hardly any, probably.

    The Sephardic Jews of Spain have a somewhat similar ancestry admixture, but I think it's like repeating a recipe, rather than a common origin: some middle eastern plus european, but not quite the same middle easterners and not the same Europeans. Just as mestizos in Mexico and Chile do not have a common origin.

    A few Sephardics moved to Poland upon expulsion, not many.

    Many thanks Greg. Lots of potential links and questions for me to follow up.

    One immediate question. Where did the observably large amount of red facial hair (and blue eyes) come from in Ashkenazim if not from Celts?

    What about my speculation that there was lots of Celtic ancestry in those “Italians” you mention based on e.g. the not entirely mythical sack of Rome by Cisalpine Gauls variously dated between 410 and 387BC?

    Read More
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  221. chris says:
    @Anonymous
    Once again Phil you've proven that you don't have much to say anymore.
    Nothing to say about the US's adventures in Afghanistan given the events in Orlando?
    This event happened closer to WWII in time than it did to today. Maybe we can hear some of your insights into why America is german occupied territory for giving them aid and protecting them with military bases so soon after killing our boys.
    Quite frankly I doubt anyone actually gives a shit about a one off event 50 years ago.
    Israel (and/or Jew) haters will latch on to this because it gives them ammo, the Israel first crowd will be mildly annoyed at you for bringing up something inconvenient to their narrative but otherwise laugh at how pathetic you are, but most of the world will continue not giving a shit about you Phil.

    My dear, “broken record” (BTW we know you’re one of the regular commentator trolls to this site) this story is far from over until the facts are exposed and the guilty are punished.

    The reason we need to look into this, as described by “alexander” (comment 147), is to determine their methods and to expose the sheer gall which they shamelessly make use of, hiding under the accusation of “antisemitism” when they get caught.

    The Israeli premier during the 67 war, Eshkol had already worked to whitewash the Lavon Affair; the false-flag operation whose victims were to be British and Americans ! Whatever the real goals of the Liberty attack were, the false-flag aspect seems to have been then and seems to continue to be now, standard procedure for the Israeli government.

    Scott Horton says that the reason Reagan pulled all US troops out of Lebanon after the 246 marines were killed is because the US came to suspect that the Israelis had known the attack was going to take place but never passed the warning on to us. When then the story of the Israeli “art students,” shadowing the 911 hijackers, came out, a certain pattern beings to begins to emerge.

    What do you think would have happened if the US had destroyed an Israeli spy ship in an incident like the one which was done to the Liberty? Would they have really glossed over the facts of the matter ? Would everyone from the president on down (but especially the US tax payer) have been let of the hook ?

    What an apt metaphor this is, that they tried to destroy “Liberty” but that it survived in spite of the odds. And just like the ship itself, the story has not died and it’s slowly making a miraculous recovery !

    Read More
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  222. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    You really don't know any Jews personally or know anything about them free from mad theories do you?

    I have had professional reasons for knowing lots of Jews and I can say with certainty that there are vast numbers of Jewish atheists including inside Israel though my certain knowledge is about non Israeli Jews. As an atheist of non intensive Anglican/Episcopalian background I continue to puzzle over the apparent belief of many intelligent educated people in an Abrahamic god....

    The puzzle over sticking to being Jewish as an atheist is a slightly different puzzle but still puzzling to me. But maybe Disraeli provided a pride in "race" [tribe] explanation???? I've detected it in the Welsh and Viking descendants too, and Australian part Aborigines even.

    I have had professional reasons for knowing lots of Jews and I can say with certainty that there are vast numbers of Jewish atheists including inside Israel

    Wiz,

    I am sure that any words that I may have on God, Jews, and Israel will be wasted on you.

    I guess there is something to being on the wining bandwagon – it must be fun.

    You chose yours – I chose mine.

    I am an idealist Christian – so the meek are my people.

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    The meek are your people? How do you demonstrate that since you clearly are not yourself one of them? You totally lack the modesty - and the good gentle manners - to be classed as meek.
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  223. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    Despite your ADHD, dyspraxia or whatever it is that dominates your commenting style you might care to attend to someone who knows what he's talking about. Greg Cochran, as I said to your deaf ears, and you can now find more #204.

    That you perceive the argument from authority not only as unanswerable but as the only one possible does not surprise me, Wiz.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    It is difficult to answer you properly when you so clearly don't know anything about arguments from authority. But try dealing with this.

    Greg Cochran is indeed an acknowleged and published authority and expert on relevant matters of mathemics, and statistical data, pertaining to Ashkenazi ancestry and genetics. You evidently are not but you seem to hold some views which are at variance with Greg's that are within his area of expertise. He has given us part of his reasoning ehich refutes you. If you wish to preserve even a shred of credibilty for any claim of truth for any of your contested views in future you need to show how you would dispute the Cochran dicta.

    Specifically if you don't want to be dismissed as a bullshitting blowhard just tell us what is wrong with #205 and argue your case.

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  224. 5371 says:
    @Taxonomy26
    I put up tons of Facts, incl the Naval Court of Inquiry Findings, and the Testimony of the Liberty's CAPTAIN.
    NO ANSWER to either.
    Got no game Adolph?

    You put up Nothing but Inuendo and More trailer Park Trash.

    You Tourettes Twins with the Carroll Price/Eva Braun creature?

    You both post NO meaty facts, only garbage.

    It's funny, you have to wait for mods to be posted, but what do they Not allow?

    This is the worst garabage I've see ANYWHERE, even Unmoderated.

    If biz is on the varsity squad of hasbarists, you, Lover of Random Capitalisation, are from the scrub team.

    Read More
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  225. @Art
    I have had professional reasons for knowing lots of Jews and I can say with certainty that there are vast numbers of Jewish atheists including inside Israel

    Wiz,

    I am sure that any words that I may have on God, Jews, and Israel will be wasted on you.

    I guess there is something to being on the wining bandwagon – it must be fun.

    You chose yours – I chose mine.

    I am an idealist Christian – so the meek are my people.

    Art

    The meek are your people? How do you demonstrate that since you clearly are not yourself one of them? You totally lack the modesty – and the good gentle manners – to be classed as meek.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Wiz,

    You and iffen are former Christians who became atheists. Atheists think of themselves as being intellectually superior. They look down on the universal outlook of Christians and their God. Christians say we are all equal in the eyes of God. Christian philosophy values all human life – it values truth – it values forgives – it says be hopeful – it says to love to your neighbor irrespective of tribal identity. Jesus says “that the truth will set you free.” These intellectual prescriptions are the base of the best part of Western culture. Who can argue with that?

    I find it curious, that as you abandon the Christian God and the Christian philosophy, you revert to supporting tribalness. You go intellectually backwards. You leave something intellectually uplifting, for something that is non-thinking, something that is primordial – something that is animalistic and biological. What is intellectually superior about supporting one tribe over another?

    How do you two intellectually support the old ways of tribalism, how do you intellectually support those who make land claims based on a tribal god, a god that you do not believe exists.

    I find it unbelievable that you two former Christians support the Jews and their tribal pseudo-superiority complex.

    Do you atheists also have the same pseudo-superiority complex – it that way you side with the Jews?

    Art
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  226. @5371
    That you perceive the argument from authority not only as unanswerable but as the only one possible does not surprise me, Wiz.

    It is difficult to answer you properly when you so clearly don’t know anything about arguments from authority. But try dealing with this.

    Greg Cochran is indeed an acknowleged and published authority and expert on relevant matters of mathemics, and statistical data, pertaining to Ashkenazi ancestry and genetics. You evidently are not but you seem to hold some views which are at variance with Greg’s that are within his area of expertise. He has given us part of his reasoning ehich refutes you. If you wish to preserve even a shred of credibilty for any claim of truth for any of your contested views in future you need to show how you would dispute the Cochran dicta.

    Specifically if you don’t want to be dismissed as a bullshitting blowhard just tell us what is wrong with #205 and argue your case.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    Since you send me to Cochran with such dogged determination, Wiz you dear bumbling chap, I will mention that his views seem much more divergent from those of my hasbarist adversary biz than from mine.
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  227. @Wizard of Oz
    At what point after the first hostilities of the war was the Liberty attacked? Consistently with your account it would have had to be almost immediately. Was it? Or don't you know that vital detail?

    At what point after the first hostilities of the war was the Liberty attacked? Consistently with your account it would have had to be almost immediately. Was it? Or don’t you know that vital detail?

    I know the Liberty was attacked hours after it was spotted by the IDF. I am pretty sure it had arrived off the Sinai just recently. Was not there on June 5, when the war started.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I thought you were suggesting that the Israelis feared that the Liberty would allow the US to learn for sure that the war was started by the Israelis and not the other way round. But that surely would require the detection to be done much earlier thsn the Liberty was ib a position to do it. Right???
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  228. @Anonymous
    Israel Beggged Jordan NOT to enter the War.
    Israel immediately offered back said territories in exchange for mere recognition.
    Arabs Refused in Aug '67.
    See 'Khartoum three nos'.

    Only thus and incredibly slowly, 'occupation'.

    Compare the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians before the occupation and since. Obviously much more lethal violence since. Add on the increasing international isolation and hostility toward Israel and Jews. ( being driven out of France ).

    The decision to take the West Bank was not based on security. It is land. Which is not to be critical of that decision. Everyone should just state the facts. The Liberty had to be attacked because the pretext Israel needed to take the West Bank was only going to last for a day or so. Israel could not risk the world knowing what it was about to do by attacking the West Bank.

    Read More
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  229. 5371 says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    It is difficult to answer you properly when you so clearly don't know anything about arguments from authority. But try dealing with this.

    Greg Cochran is indeed an acknowleged and published authority and expert on relevant matters of mathemics, and statistical data, pertaining to Ashkenazi ancestry and genetics. You evidently are not but you seem to hold some views which are at variance with Greg's that are within his area of expertise. He has given us part of his reasoning ehich refutes you. If you wish to preserve even a shred of credibilty for any claim of truth for any of your contested views in future you need to show how you would dispute the Cochran dicta.

    Specifically if you don't want to be dismissed as a bullshitting blowhard just tell us what is wrong with #205 and argue your case.

    Since you send me to Cochran with such dogged determination, Wiz you dear bumbling chap, I will mention that his views seem much more divergent from those of my hasbarist adversary biz than from mine.

    Read More
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  230. @Steve Richter

    At what point after the first hostilities of the war was the Liberty attacked? Consistently with your account it would have had to be almost immediately. Was it? Or don’t you know that vital detail?
     
    I know the Liberty was attacked hours after it was spotted by the IDF. I am pretty sure it had arrived off the Sinai just recently. Was not there on June 5, when the war started.

    I thought you were suggesting that the Israelis feared that the Liberty would allow the US to learn for sure that the war was started by the Israelis and not the other way round. But that surely would require the detection to be done much earlier thsn the Liberty was ib a position to do it. Right???

    Read More
    • Replies: @Steve Richter

    I thought you were suggesting that the Israelis feared that the Liberty would allow the US to learn for sure that the war was started by the Israelis and not the other way round. But that surely would require the detection to be done much earlier thsn the Liberty was ib a position to do it. Right???

     

    it was two separate wars. Sinai and then the West Bank and Golan. Sinai being tactical. West Bank and Golan strategic. Success in taking the West Bank was critical to Israel the nation, the people. On June 8 the IDF had to decide quickly what to do about the Liberty. The window for taking the West Bank would be open for only a day or two.
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  231. biz says:
    @5371
    You don't make many comments on this site other than to defend Israel, biz or whatever you want to be called. Why might that be?

    Actually I make comments on other topics, which you can see by clicking on my comment history.

    I see my mission as fundamentally pushing back against lies, disinformation, and incorrectness. I did it here in this thread with regard to your incorrectness (or possibly lies) about how to determine the ancestry proportions of a given population. I do it elsewhere on other topics, on this site and other places.

    As for a supposed focus on Israel, that is because a stunningly high proportion of the lies, disinformation, and incorrectness out there seems to be about Israel and Jews, so I do comment a lot – but not exclusively – about these topics. I leave it for now to the reader to speculate why these particular topics tend to draw so many misinformed and/or dishonest comments, such as yours in this thread.

    Read More
    • Replies: @5371
    I wrote

    [You don’t make many comments on this site other than to defend Israel]

    You answered

    [Actually I make comments on other topics]

    So tell us, why would you make such a misleading non-denial denial? Does it betray someone practised in the arts of deception?
    , @Art
    As for a supposed focus on Israel (denial)

    Gee biz,

    Hmm - are you another godless atheist who supports the tribal Jews like Wiz and iffen do?

    What is with you guys? Why do you favor the powerful over the weak?

    Art
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  232. 5371 says:
    @biz
    Actually I make comments on other topics, which you can see by clicking on my comment history.

    I see my mission as fundamentally pushing back against lies, disinformation, and incorrectness. I did it here in this thread with regard to your incorrectness (or possibly lies) about how to determine the ancestry proportions of a given population. I do it elsewhere on other topics, on this site and other places.

    As for a supposed focus on Israel, that is because a stunningly high proportion of the lies, disinformation, and incorrectness out there seems to be about Israel and Jews, so I do comment a lot - but not exclusively - about these topics. I leave it for now to the reader to speculate why these particular topics tend to draw so many misinformed and/or dishonest comments, such as yours in this thread.

    I wrote

    [You don’t make many comments on this site other than to defend Israel]

    You answered

    [Actually I make comments on other topics]

    So tell us, why would you make such a misleading non-denial denial? Does it betray someone practised in the arts of deception?

    Read More
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  233. Art says:
    @Wizard of Oz
    The meek are your people? How do you demonstrate that since you clearly are not yourself one of them? You totally lack the modesty - and the good gentle manners - to be classed as meek.

    Wiz,

    You and iffen are former Christians who became atheists. Atheists think of themselves as being intellectually superior. They look down on the universal outlook of Christians and their God. Christians say we are all equal in the eyes of God. Christian philosophy values all human life – it values truth – it values forgives – it says be hopeful – it says to love to your neighbor irrespective of tribal identity. Jesus says “that the truth will set you free.” These intellectual prescriptions are the base of the best part of Western culture. Who can argue with that?

    I find it curious, that as you abandon the Christian God and the Christian philosophy, you revert to supporting tribalness. You go intellectually backwards. You leave something intellectually uplifting, for something that is non-thinking, something that is primordial – something that is animalistic and biological. What is intellectually superior about supporting one tribe over another?

    How do you two intellectually support the old ways of tribalism, how do you intellectually support those who make land claims based on a tribal god, a god that you do not believe exists.

    I find it unbelievable that you two former Christians support the Jews and their tribal pseudo-superiority complex.

    Do you atheists also have the same pseudo-superiority complex – it that way you side with the Jews?

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Hello Art,

    I know my way around the New Testament and I don't think there is a "philosophical" Jesus mentioned.

    Matthew 22:14

    14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
    , @Wizard of Oz
    I have Christian friends of high intelligence, academic achievement and worldly success who only give me cute answers (quips and wit) to my fundamental question which is as follows.

    The Abrahamic God of Jews, Christians and Muslims is Creator of the universe and all mankind, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Eternal and cares about us and what we do enough to communicate with us from time to time. How can there be such a being when, if we know anything, we know that he gave the ancient Hebrews instructions to commit genocide, Jesus's and Paul's version was very different, Mahomet's was different again without God stepping in to say he wasn't the genuine article .... and beyond all that there were dozens of conflicting teachings from Early Fathers to Cathars to Calvinists and beyond? Add to that the known fact that the father of all mankind has not acted as such in relation to billions of Hindus, Buddhists and animists. At the very least your conception of a Creator God who is intetested in what we do has to be radically different from any of the Abrahamic versions. (Logically my version that He was lonely and bored so decided to set off billions of multiverses and entertain himself by merely watching how they turned out makes sense though my Cardinal friend said "I don't think that is quite standard Christian doctrine" and I have yet to try it on my rabbi friend who would at least acknowledge that the Hebrew bible's deity is sometimes more judgmental than loving).

    So why don't you abandon your deity who, as "Saint" (Sir) Thomas More clearly saw needs promises and threats of life after death to keep the strong from oppressing the weak and think through the morality that we can derive by thought and observation starting with evolution of our hominid ancestors?

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  234. Art says:
    @biz
    Actually I make comments on other topics, which you can see by clicking on my comment history.

    I see my mission as fundamentally pushing back against lies, disinformation, and incorrectness. I did it here in this thread with regard to your incorrectness (or possibly lies) about how to determine the ancestry proportions of a given population. I do it elsewhere on other topics, on this site and other places.

    As for a supposed focus on Israel, that is because a stunningly high proportion of the lies, disinformation, and incorrectness out there seems to be about Israel and Jews, so I do comment a lot - but not exclusively - about these topics. I leave it for now to the reader to speculate why these particular topics tend to draw so many misinformed and/or dishonest comments, such as yours in this thread.

    As for a supposed focus on Israel (denial)

    Gee biz,

    Hmm – are you another godless atheist who supports the tribal Jews like Wiz and iffen do?

    What is with you guys? Why do you favor the powerful over the weak?

    Art

    Read More
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  235. Sam Shama says:
    @iffen
    Hey Art,

    Thanks for slapping # 207's hand, I thought I was going to have to attend to it.

    As usual your comment was not very useful, but sometimes it is the effort that matters.

    Who does he think he is? Coming in here insulting the Jew haters; like I am not doing a good enough job.

    Anyway, thanks; more like this and we can be BFF? Naw, never mind, we will just be like the USSR and the US and work together against the real evil.

    Art, the sad part for me is that no one responded to my question about the plane’s markings. It’s just like they don’t really care all that much about what really happened; the incident is just one more bead on a rosary of hate facts. It couldn't be that could it, Art?

    [...the sad part for me is that no one responded to my question about the plane’s markings]

    Hi Iffen,
    Just saw this. Reading the transcripts certainly gave me no clues as to whether the contingent was flying incognito. There was something I read in an Israeli blog which seemed to say that they most certainly were [it is a lefty blog, so take it with a grain - a large one] but I shall follow up.

    [btw you do have patience replying to this 'Art' avatar, deliberately created to not suppress raw anti-semitism cloaked in unctuous piety and crocodile tears. I listened to his emissions with all the equanimity I could muster for over a year, but decided recently to gaol him in the 'Ignore' button up on the left hand corner. Missing chromosomes......]

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    ...you do have patience replying to this 'Art'...but decided recently to gaol him in the 'Ignore' button up on the left hand corner

    I blame you Sam. (smiley) I had Art and Rurik on Ignore, likely since reading their 1st post, but took them off to follow your conversations with them and others such as geo and Talha.
    , @RobinG
    You know, you can contact surviving members of the USS Liberty crew through their websites. There was at least one Jewish sailor. When or why he cried, you can ask.

    https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

    http://honorlibertyvets.org/about.html#.V2R0fjPD9qo
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  236. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    [...the sad part for me is that no one responded to my question about the plane’s markings]

    Hi Iffen,
    Just saw this. Reading the transcripts certainly gave me no clues as to whether the contingent was flying incognito. There was something I read in an Israeli blog which seemed to say that they most certainly were [it is a lefty blog, so take it with a grain - a large one] but I shall follow up.

    [btw you do have patience replying to this 'Art' avatar, deliberately created to not suppress raw anti-semitism cloaked in unctuous piety and crocodile tears. I listened to his emissions with all the equanimity I could muster for over a year, but decided recently to gaol him in the 'Ignore' button up on the left hand corner. Missing chromosomes......]

    …you do have patience replying to this ‘Art’…but decided recently to gaol him in the ‘Ignore’ button up on the left hand corner

    I blame you Sam. (smiley) I had Art and Rurik on Ignore, likely since reading their 1st post, but took them off to follow your conversations with them and others such as geo and Talha.

    Read More
    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    I belong to a club where one of our averagely eccentric members was heard to say "What i like about this club is that it makes me feel normal". Responding to all on UR doesn't.
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  237. iffen says:

    OT

    Does anyone besides me wonder how the SPLC would be in possession of copies of the invoices from The National Alliance detailing customer purchases including membership?

    Not that anyone here would know anything about that type of organization, but you might know someone who knows someone.

    I don’t think that I like the idea of private transaction data being published.

    Are there no protections in place for political membership information or private commercial transactions?

    Read More
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    The only protection i guess in the land of the First Amendment would be found in criminal law against theft and maybe Copyright law. But i doubt that Copyright law wluld stop you saying that A,B,and C are each members of XYZ and made donations of $PQ....
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  238. iffen says:
    @Art
    Wiz,

    You and iffen are former Christians who became atheists. Atheists think of themselves as being intellectually superior. They look down on the universal outlook of Christians and their God. Christians say we are all equal in the eyes of God. Christian philosophy values all human life – it values truth – it values forgives – it says be hopeful – it says to love to your neighbor irrespective of tribal identity. Jesus says “that the truth will set you free.” These intellectual prescriptions are the base of the best part of Western culture. Who can argue with that?

    I find it curious, that as you abandon the Christian God and the Christian philosophy, you revert to supporting tribalness. You go intellectually backwards. You leave something intellectually uplifting, for something that is non-thinking, something that is primordial – something that is animalistic and biological. What is intellectually superior about supporting one tribe over another?

    How do you two intellectually support the old ways of tribalism, how do you intellectually support those who make land claims based on a tribal god, a god that you do not believe exists.

    I find it unbelievable that you two former Christians support the Jews and their tribal pseudo-superiority complex.

    Do you atheists also have the same pseudo-superiority complex – it that way you side with the Jews?

    Art

    Hello Art,

    I know my way around the New Testament and I don’t think there is a “philosophical” Jesus mentioned.

    Matthew 22:14

    14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    I know my way around the New Testament and I don’t think there is a “philosophical” Jesus mentioned.

    iffen and Wiz,

    God gave us brains or rather God’s universe evolved us to have brains. Before we acquired brains, we had biological gonads (actually mammalian brain stems) that directed our actions. We each have to make decisions about how to live longer, about how to get to tomorrow. Some people us their brains more then they use their gonads. Those that use their brains to make decisions about how to get to tomorrow, use a set of learned intellectual viewpoints to direct their actions. Those viewpoints are learned from personal experiences and culture. Put altogether, these views are called a philosophy for living. Some philosophies work better at building tomorrows then others.

    As we humans have progressed, small tribes have evolved in great nations and great religions. All religions have two intellectual components to them. One component prescribes how we should connect and interact with god. The other component prescribes how should connect and interact with each other. Different religions have different prescriptions for living.

    No human has ever truly known god – all we have are ever progressing viewpoints. Jesus gave us God 2.0. He undated the previous viewpoint of god. His God 2.0 was merciful, loving, forgiving, and hopeful. God 1.0 was harsh and vengeful. Jesus’ viewpoint on human relations are idealistic. He prescribed hope, respect for life, love for one’s neighbor, seeking truth, forgiving, and extending grace to all. (Considering the nature of organized religion, how these ideals ever filtered down to us today is a miracle.)

    You godless atheists have thrown out the idealist Christian baby with the religious bathwater.

    You two have embraced the mean old gonad god 1.0 by supporting the Jew tribe.

    Is atheism really progress – or it just reverting to the gonad world of the strong over the week?

    Art
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  239. RobinG says:
    @Sam Shama
    [...the sad part for me is that no one responded to my question about the plane’s markings]

    Hi Iffen,
    Just saw this. Reading the transcripts certainly gave me no clues as to whether the contingent was flying incognito. There was something I read in an Israeli blog which seemed to say that they most certainly were [it is a lefty blog, so take it with a grain - a large one] but I shall follow up.

    [btw you do have patience replying to this 'Art' avatar, deliberately created to not suppress raw anti-semitism cloaked in unctuous piety and crocodile tears. I listened to his emissions with all the equanimity I could muster for over a year, but decided recently to gaol him in the 'Ignore' button up on the left hand corner. Missing chromosomes......]

    You know, you can contact surviving members of the USS Liberty crew through their websites. There was at least one Jewish sailor. When or why he cried, you can ask.

    https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

    http://honorlibertyvets.org/about.html#.V2R0fjPD9qo

    Read More
    • Replies: @Sam Shama
    Hi Robin,
    I'll do so, thank you much.
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  240. Sam Shama says:
    @RobinG
    You know, you can contact surviving members of the USS Liberty crew through their websites. There was at least one Jewish sailor. When or why he cried, you can ask.

    https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

    http://honorlibertyvets.org/about.html#.V2R0fjPD9qo

    Hi Robin,
    I’ll do so, thank you much.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Comment #270 links to Friendless Fire? by David C. Walsh.

    I read the article by Walsh and here is a quote:

    “The suggestion of prejudice especially upsets Jewish survivors, such as the senior engineering officer, George Golden...”

    According to his online obituary:

    George H. Golden, Jr., “was the engineering officer aboard the ill-fated USS Liberty” and was “a deacon at Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church.”
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  241. “Former NSA Officials Agree

    David C. Walsh

    The jamming of unique U.S. frequencies during the Liberty incident seems to establish deliberate intent. And in exclusive interviews with this author, several former high-level National Security Agency (NSA) officials agree.

    On 14 February 2003, the “godfather” of the NSA’s Auxiliary General Technical Research program, Oliver Kirby, noted that the Liberty was “my baby.” Within weeks of the calamity, Kirby, deputy director for operations/production, read U.S. signals intelligence (SigInt)-generated transcripts and “staff reports” at NSA’s Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters. They were of Israeli pilots’ conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it “absolutely certain” they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said. Kirby’s is the first public disclosure by a top-level NSA senior of deliberate intent based on personal analyses of SigInt material.

    In an interview on 24 February 2003, retired Air Force Major General John Morrison, the agency’s then-second-in-command (and Kirby’s successor), said he had been informed at the time of Kirby’s findings and endorsed them. Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom said on 3 March 2003 said that, on the strength of such data, the attack’s deliberateness “just wasn’t a disputed issue” within the agency. On 5 March 2003, retired Navy Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, NSA director from 1977-1981, said he “flatly rejected” the Cristol/Israeli thesis. “It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [the Liberty] was not correctly identified.” He said this was based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge. All four were unaware of any agency official at that time or later who dissented from the “deliberate” conclusion.

    Naval Institute Proceedings
    Friendless Fire by David C_ Walsh
    June 2003

    Read More
    • Replies: @AmericaFirstNow
    Friendless Fire by David Walsh

    http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,NI_Friendless_0603,00.html
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  242. @Art
    Wiz,

    You and iffen are former Christians who became atheists. Atheists think of themselves as being intellectually superior. They look down on the universal outlook of Christians and their God. Christians say we are all equal in the eyes of God. Christian philosophy values all human life – it values truth – it values forgives – it says be hopeful – it says to love to your neighbor irrespective of tribal identity. Jesus says “that the truth will set you free.” These intellectual prescriptions are the base of the best part of Western culture. Who can argue with that?

    I find it curious, that as you abandon the Christian God and the Christian philosophy, you revert to supporting tribalness. You go intellectually backwards. You leave something intellectually uplifting, for something that is non-thinking, something that is primordial – something that is animalistic and biological. What is intellectually superior about supporting one tribe over another?

    How do you two intellectually support the old ways of tribalism, how do you intellectually support those who make land claims based on a tribal god, a god that you do not believe exists.

    I find it unbelievable that you two former Christians support the Jews and their tribal pseudo-superiority complex.

    Do you atheists also have the same pseudo-superiority complex – it that way you side with the Jews?

    Art

    I have Christian friends of high intelligence, academic achievement and worldly success who only give me cute answers (quips and wit) to my fundamental question which is as follows.

    The Abrahamic God of Jews, Christians and Muslims is Creator of the universe and all mankind, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Eternal and cares about us and what we do enough to communicate with us from time to time. How can there be such a being when, if we know anything, we know that he gave the ancient Hebrews instructions to commit genocide, Jesus’s and Paul’s version was very different, Mahomet’s was different again without God stepping in to say he wasn’t the genuine article …. and beyond all that there were dozens of conflicting teachings from Early Fathers to Cathars to Calvinists and beyond? Add to that the known fact that the father of all mankind has not acted as such in relation to billions of Hindus, Buddhists and animists. At the very least your conception of a Creator God who is intetested in what we do has to be radically different from any of the Abrahamic versions. (Logically my version that He was lonely and bored so decided to set off billions of multiverses and entertain himself by merely watching how they turned out makes sense though my Cardinal friend said “I don’t think that is quite standard Christian doctrine” and I have yet to try it on my rabbi friend who would at least acknowledge that the Hebrew bible’s deity is sometimes more judgmental than loving).

    So why don’t you abandon your deity who, as “Saint” (Sir) Thomas More clearly saw needs promises and threats of life after death to keep the strong from oppressing the weak and think through the morality that we can derive by thought and observation starting with evolution of our hominid ancestors?

    Read More
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  243. @iffen
    OT

    Does anyone besides me wonder how the SPLC would be in possession of copies of the invoices from The National Alliance detailing customer purchases including membership?

    Not that anyone here would know anything about that type of organization, but you might know someone who knows someone.

    I don't think that I like the idea of private transaction data being published.

    Are there no protections in place for political membership information or private commercial transactions?

    The only protection i guess in the land of the First Amendment would be found in criminal law against theft and maybe Copyright law. But i doubt that Copyright law wluld stop you saying that A,B,and C are each members of XYZ and made donations of $PQ….

    Read More
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  244. @iffen
    ...you do have patience replying to this 'Art'...but decided recently to gaol him in the 'Ignore' button up on the left hand corner

    I blame you Sam. (smiley) I had Art and Rurik on Ignore, likely since reading their 1st post, but took them off to follow your conversations with them and others such as geo and Talha.

    I belong to a club where one of our averagely eccentric members was heard to say “What i like about this club is that it makes me feel normal”. Responding to all on UR doesn’t.

    Read More
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  245. @Wizard of Oz
    I thought you were suggesting that the Israelis feared that the Liberty would allow the US to learn for sure that the war was started by the Israelis and not the other way round. But that surely would require the detection to be done much earlier thsn the Liberty was ib a position to do it. Right???

    I thought you were suggesting that the Israelis feared that the Liberty would allow the US to learn for sure that the war was started by the Israelis and not the other way round. But that surely would require the detection to be done much earlier thsn the Liberty was ib a position to do it. Right???

    it was two separate wars. Sinai and then the West Bank and Golan. Sinai being tactical. West Bank and Golan strategic. Success in taking the West Bank was critical to Israel the nation, the people. On June 8 the IDF had to decide quickly what to do about the Liberty. The window for taking the West Bank would be open for only a day or two.

    Read More
    • Replies: @alexander
    It is interesting you suggest that taking the West Bank and the Golan were "critical " to Israel as a nation and as a people.

    Can you explain how this is so ?

    Why was it crucial to do this ?
    , @Wizard of Oz
    That makes sense but how did Israel get up the Sinai conflict in the first instance?
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  246. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    USS Liberty has nothing lost there, 7000 miles away from US coastal waters.
    Those indispensable Ubermenshen were spying there, hence an act of war. And tehy got a lesson which they deserve.
    However those fighter planes didn’t finsh them all off. Unfortunately.

    Read More
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  247. alexander says:
    @Steve Richter

    I thought you were suggesting that the Israelis feared that the Liberty would allow the US to learn for sure that the war was started by the Israelis and not the other way round. But that surely would require the detection to be done much earlier thsn the Liberty was ib a position to do it. Right???

     

    it was two separate wars. Sinai and then the West Bank and Golan. Sinai being tactical. West Bank and Golan strategic. Success in taking the West Bank was critical to Israel the nation, the people. On June 8 the IDF had to decide quickly what to do about the Liberty. The window for taking the West Bank would be open for only a day or two.

    It is interesting you suggest that taking the West Bank and the Golan were “critical ” to Israel as a nation and as a people.

    Can you explain how this is so ?

    Why was it crucial to do this ?

    Read More
    • Replies: @steve richter

    Can you explain how this is so ?
     
    Golan provides security from Syria. But I guess not critical in that they have not moved people onto that territory. The West Bank clearly is never to be returned. Jerusalem is the capital, many settlements have been built. And Israel needs the space. This all seems obvious,no?
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  248. “Those indispensable Ubermenshen were spying there, hence an act of war. ”

    That must mean when I fire up the old shortwave radio to look for mil comms, that must be an act of war. Or if I try to snoop for Inmarsat signals from satellites. In non-combatant areas.

    Pretty bad writing for a troll.

    Read More
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  249. WhatEvvs says:
    @iffen
    I doubt commenter 5371 will tell you, so:

    Hate on Display™ Hate Symbols Database
    88
    88 is a white supremacist numerical code for "Heil Hitler." H is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so 88 = HH = Heil Hitler. One of the most common white supremacist symbols, 88 is used throughout the entire white supremacist movement, not just neo-Nazis. One can find it as a tattoo or graphic symbol; as part of the name of a group, publication or website; or as part of a screenname or e-mail address. It is even sometimes used as a greeting or sign-off (particularly in messages on social networking websites).

    The number is frequently combined with another white supremacist numeric code, 14 (shorthand for the so-called "14 Words" slogan: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children") in the form of 1488, 14/88, 14-88, or 8814…

    It should be noted that 88 can be found in non-extremist contexts. The number is used by ham radio operators to mean "hugs" or "hugs and kisses." Also, a number of NASCAR drivers, including several very well-known ones, have used the number 88, resulting in various automobile stickers and other forms of merchandise sporting that number.

    This is from the ADL website. Go have a look, they have interesting photos of tattoos.

    Are you sure you are Jewish?

    I can understand some of the confusion because a lot of these that comment here don't qualify as 88s, most barely make it to 44, maybe even a 22 now and then.

    Thanks – I did used to know a pianist whose online moniker was 88Keys, because that’s what a piano has. Great guy.

    I wonder if Giraldi will tell us what he thinks of this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike

    As far as the “sworn to secrecy” thing goes….ROFL.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    Yes, we can put 88keys into the last paragraph that I copied from ADL.

    The hospital strike is very unfortunate. I really hate to see people like the MSF group becoming victims of the war. I don’t know how we can delineate the sequence of events that led to this incident. Were they relying on Afgan intelligence or not? I know that the US has been abused and used over the years in the never ending wars. Hopefully we are getting better. I still wonder if there is not some unfortunate dipwad still stuck in Gitmo because he was owed money by some operative that was savy enough to catch the ear of some 2nd Lt on the make.

    Many opportunities for double and triple bank shots.
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  250. @alexander
    It is interesting you suggest that taking the West Bank and the Golan were "critical " to Israel as a nation and as a people.

    Can you explain how this is so ?

    Why was it crucial to do this ?

    Can you explain how this is so ?

    Golan provides security from Syria. But I guess not critical in that they have not moved people onto that territory. The West Bank clearly is never to be returned. Jerusalem is the capital, many settlements have been built. And Israel needs the space. This all seems obvious,no?

    Read More
    • Replies: @annamaria
    "Golan provides security from Syria. But I guess not critical in that they have not moved people onto that territory. The West Bank clearly is never to be returned. Jerusalem is the capital, many settlements have been built. And Israel needs the space. This all seems obvious,no?"

    yes, absolutely. That was a very good explanation of the rationale of the ongoing war in Syria (and for Israel's tacit support for "freedom fighters" of ISIS and Al Qaida). http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty-six-things-about-the-islamic-state-isil-that-obama-does-not-want-you-to-know-about/5414735
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-military-support-to-syria-al-qaeda-terrorists-operating-out-of-the-golan-hights/5369619
    Do you personally believe that Oded Yonon Plan has been a guiding blueprint for the US/UK Lobby?

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  251. Art says:
    @iffen
    Hello Art,

    I know my way around the New Testament and I don't think there is a "philosophical" Jesus mentioned.

    Matthew 22:14

    14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

    I know my way around the New Testament and I don’t think there is a “philosophical” Jesus mentioned.

    iffen and Wiz,

    God gave us brains or rather God’s universe evolved us to have brains. Before we acquired brains, we had biological gonads (actually mammalian brain stems) that directed our actions. We each have to make decisions about how to live longer, about how to get to tomorrow. Some people us their brains more then they use their gonads. Those that use their brains to make decisions about how to get to tomorrow, use a set of learned intellectual viewpoints to direct their actions. Those viewpoints are learned from personal experiences and culture. Put altogether, these views are called a philosophy for living. Some philosophies work better at building tomorrows then others.

    As we humans have progressed, small tribes have evolved in great nations and great religions. All religions have two intellectual components to them. One component prescribes how we should connect and interact with god. The other component prescribes how should connect and interact with each other. Different religions have different prescriptions for living.

    No human has ever truly known god – all we have are ever progressing viewpoints. Jesus gave us God 2.0. He undated the previous viewpoint of god. His God 2.0 was merciful, loving, forgiving, and hopeful. God 1.0 was harsh and vengeful. Jesus’ viewpoint on human relations are idealistic. He prescribed hope, respect for life, love for one’s neighbor, seeking truth, forgiving, and extending grace to all. (Considering the nature of organized religion, how these ideals ever filtered down to us today is a miracle.)

    You godless atheists have thrown out the idealist Christian baby with the religious bathwater.

    You two have embraced the mean old gonad god 1.0 by supporting the Jew tribe.

    Is atheism really progress – or it just reverting to the gonad world of the strong over the week?

    Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    Art,

    What do you think of the writings of Bishop Spong?

    Thanks
    , @helena
    I've said it before - I agree completely with your analysis of religion. Religion and Politics are no different in the sense that they are ideologies about how we live; how we treat each other, what we do when we get up in the morning. That's the whole point of 'culture' - not having to start from scratch every time social interaction occurs because 'the rules of engagement' are understood and shared.

    I don't know if it is deliberate but all discussions about religion in the political sphere (the realm of 'current affairs') go round and round discussing imponderables such as 'does god exist' or, irrelevant accessories such as what additional cloth to wear where, and how often to pray.

    I also agree that christianity has given us the only workable template for peaceful societies. And I say that because even though Buddhism has a lot of good points, it is not based on the concept of community. The key behavioural memes, as you point out are 'neighbour', 'forgiveness', 'honesty'.

    Instead of 'never again' (war) we should be thinking more along the lines of 'for evermore' (peace).
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  252. annamaria says:
    @steve richter

    Can you explain how this is so ?
     
    Golan provides security from Syria. But I guess not critical in that they have not moved people onto that territory. The West Bank clearly is never to be returned. Jerusalem is the capital, many settlements have been built. And Israel needs the space. This all seems obvious,no?

    “Golan provides security from Syria. But I guess not critical in that they have not moved people onto that territory. The West Bank clearly is never to be returned. Jerusalem is the capital, many settlements have been built. And Israel needs the space. This all seems obvious,no?”

    yes, absolutely. That was a very good explanation of the rationale of the ongoing war in Syria (and for Israel’s tacit support for “freedom fighters” of ISIS and Al Qaida). http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty-six-things-about-the-islamic-state-isil-that-obama-does-not-want-you-to-know-about/5414735

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-military-support-to-syria-al-qaeda-terrorists-operating-out-of-the-golan-hights/5369619

    Do you personally believe that Oded Yonon Plan has been a guiding blueprint for the US/UK Lobby?

    Read More
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  253. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer
    @Fran Macadam
    Sanders is Jewish and Trump's got Jewish in-laws. That should tell us that not all influential Jewish folk in America, particularly, are onboard with the wealthy donorist Likudnik class that strongarms policy with money. Nor are all those in Israel who are Jewish universally for the destructive policies under Netanyahu and his far-right coalition allies.

    Another interesting aspect of coverup with documents suppressed after 49 years, is that Israel is refusing to release millions of documents supposed to be public after 15 years, but is reclassifying them, not only dating to 1967 but to 1948. Nevertheless, Jewish investigative journalists and Israeli historians have found from the one per cent they had access to, they involve numerous false flag operations, intentionally deceptive propaganda and more seriously, actual genocide as policy from the earliest days of the formation of the modern nation.

    Once again, we are played for patsies.

    Ever since I could vote, I’ve had to choose
    between the “LESSER OF TWO WEASELS)!

    That way, the conclave of self-interest that runs this country stays in power, while playing to the competitive drive in a country seemingly unable to be able to count higher than two.

    It’s our patriotic duty to criticize any other country, including Israel, that steps over the line, and, to also criticize anyone in this country who won’t step up to insist that other governments be held accountable.

    Shut the hell up, both Billary and Frump!
    You may get elected, but you are both only involved in your self-interest as your primary motivation. It’s beyond nauseating.

    Read More
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  254. @Steve Richter

    I thought you were suggesting that the Israelis feared that the Liberty would allow the US to learn for sure that the war was started by the Israelis and not the other way round. But that surely would require the detection to be done much earlier thsn the Liberty was ib a position to do it. Right???

     

    it was two separate wars. Sinai and then the West Bank and Golan. Sinai being tactical. West Bank and Golan strategic. Success in taking the West Bank was critical to Israel the nation, the people. On June 8 the IDF had to decide quickly what to do about the Liberty. The window for taking the West Bank would be open for only a day or two.

    That makes sense but how did Israel get up the Sinai conflict in the first instance?

    Read More
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  255. iffen says:
    @WhatEvvs
    Thanks - I did used to know a pianist whose online moniker was 88Keys, because that's what a piano has. Great guy.

    I wonder if Giraldi will tell us what he thinks of this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike

    As far as the "sworn to secrecy" thing goes....ROFL.

    Yes, we can put 88keys into the last paragraph that I copied from ADL.

    The hospital strike is very unfortunate. I really hate to see people like the MSF group becoming victims of the war. I don’t know how we can delineate the sequence of events that led to this incident. Were they relying on Afgan intelligence or not? I know that the US has been abused and used over the years in the never ending wars. Hopefully we are getting better. I still wonder if there is not some unfortunate dipwad still stuck in Gitmo because he was owed money by some operative that was savy enough to catch the ear of some 2nd Lt on the make.

    Many opportunities for double and triple bank shots.

    Read More
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  256. Anonymous says: • Disclaimer

    The US was spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs.
    After the Holocaust Israel was not going to go down and be murdered en masse by genocidal Muslims.
    NEVER AGAIN.

    You guys say NOTHING about:
    A. RUSSIA –
    1) shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 902
    2.) Korean Air Lines Flight 007,

    These civilian airlines were spying for the US

    B.) AMERICA–
    1.) Iran Air Flight 655 shot down by US fighter jet
    2.)TWA 800 -shot down by “stray” US Navy missile–or was it an Iranian missile? ALL COVERED UP BY BILL CLINTON.

    C. CHINESE -
    1.) Hainan incident where a US spy plane collided with a Chinese plane and was brought down with the Chinese holding the crew and dismantling the plane and stealing US secrets

    D.) the recent incident where river patrol boats were spying on Iran and Iran captured the crew and humiliated them for the word to see. The truth of the whole incident has been embargoesd

    So you see the US has a LONG history of spying on and behaving aggressively towards some countries who never harmed them.

    You sow what you reap. Israel will defend itself to the ends of the earth.
    NEVER AGAIN

    Blame the American Govt for the USS Liberty.
    You dont spy on friends and give intel to their enemy who ultimately is your enemy too

    So come come with this BS about how Israel attacked an innocent ship–it was no such thing It was SPYING.

    Read More
    • Replies: @iffen
    The US was spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs.

    Do you have any facts to back this opinion?

    The only plausible explanation for a deliberate attack that I can come up with is that the Israelis had no confidence in the ability of the USN to keep any information about troop movements out of the hands of the Soviets and therefore the Arabs. You have added the possibility that it would have been a willful act on the part of the US to manipulate the war to a conclusion that it considered desirable, very interesting.
    , @annamaria
    Firedup,

    Please detach from the USA already. The USSLiberty incident is a case in study for showing the pernicious influence of the Lobby on the US policies. Since the USSLiberty tragedy they ziocons have pushed the US towards the Middle East wars that both emptied the US treasury and "enhanced" the image of the US due to 3 million dead (the innocents of all ages) and 10 million refugees (don't you like the pics of dead children washed out on the shores of Europe?) These wars have been following the Oded Yinon Plan for Eretz Israel. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf
    Meanwhile, the "Never Again" has become a battle cry for the Israeli power-thirsty racists of uncertain ethnicity like you spectacular Avigdor Lieberman, a Moldovan felon. The "Never Again" does not stop Israelis (and Israel-firsters like Nuland and Kagans) from cooperating with "freedom fighters" of ISIS and neo-nazis of the regime-changed Ukraine. By the way, is Kolomojsky (the Ukrainian oligarch that financed the neo-nazi thugs of Azov battalion involved in burning alive some 40 civilians in Odessa) is still an Israeli citizen?
    Don't even think of accusing me of anti-semitism: it was Hanna Arndt, the best among the news Jews, who predicted the danger of triumph of banality of evil in Israel. There is a difference between Bach and Hitler (both were Germans) and between Einstein and Netanyahu (Jews).

    , @annamaria
    Sorry for misspelling the Hannah Arendt name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Arendt
    , @Blake
    Now why would they do that? If it wasnt for the US there wouldnt be no poxy sh*t stirring parasite called 'israel' and the world would be a much much safer place - and the US would be much better off. Lets face it you are a sick people who were never capable of sane rational policies. Sociopaths who start wars then play the victims.
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  257. @Art
    I know my way around the New Testament and I don’t think there is a “philosophical” Jesus mentioned.

    iffen and Wiz,

    God gave us brains or rather God’s universe evolved us to have brains. Before we acquired brains, we had biological gonads (actually mammalian brain stems) that directed our actions. We each have to make decisions about how to live longer, about how to get to tomorrow. Some people us their brains more then they use their gonads. Those that use their brains to make decisions about how to get to tomorrow, use a set of learned intellectual viewpoints to direct their actions. Those viewpoints are learned from personal experiences and culture. Put altogether, these views are called a philosophy for living. Some philosophies work better at building tomorrows then others.

    As we humans have progressed, small tribes have evolved in great nations and great religions. All religions have two intellectual components to them. One component prescribes how we should connect and interact with god. The other component prescribes how should connect and interact with each other. Different religions have different prescriptions for living.

    No human has ever truly known god – all we have are ever progressing viewpoints. Jesus gave us God 2.0. He undated the previous viewpoint of god. His God 2.0 was merciful, loving, forgiving, and hopeful. God 1.0 was harsh and vengeful. Jesus’ viewpoint on human relations are idealistic. He prescribed hope, respect for life, love for one’s neighbor, seeking truth, forgiving, and extending grace to all. (Considering the nature of organized religion, how these ideals ever filtered down to us today is a miracle.)

    You godless atheists have thrown out the idealist Christian baby with the religious bathwater.

    You two have embraced the mean old gonad god 1.0 by supporting the Jew tribe.

    Is atheism really progress – or it just reverting to the gonad world of the strong over the week?

    Art

    Art,

    What do you think of the writings of Bishop Spong?

    Thanks

    Read More
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  258. “Iran Air Flight 655 shot down by US fighter jet”

    I’m unaware of ANY IR655 flight being downed by a US fighter jet. What kind of jet? Piloted by who? Carrier or land based? Cannon or air-to-air? Inquiring minds want to know!

    “So come come with this BS about how Israel attacked an innocent ship–it was no such thing It was SPYING.”

    So, can I take it you approved of the taking of the USS Pueblo by North Korea? After all, it too was in INTERNATIONAL waters.

    Read More
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  259. Art says:

    Thanks NosytheDuke,

    He is new to me.

    I am looking into him – this is very interesting.

    Again Thanks — Art

    Read More
    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
    I've read a couple of his books. The one I enjoyed the most was Jesus for the non-religious.
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  260. helena says:
    @Art
    I know my way around the New Testament and I don’t think there is a “philosophical” Jesus mentioned.

    iffen and Wiz,

    God gave us brains or rather God’s universe evolved us to have brains. Before we acquired brains, we had biological gonads (actually mammalian brain stems) that directed our actions. We each have to make decisions about how to live longer, about how to get to tomorrow. Some people us their brains more then they use their gonads. Those that use their brains to make decisions about how to get to tomorrow, use a set of learned intellectual viewpoints to direct their actions. Those viewpoints are learned from personal experiences and culture. Put altogether, these views are called a philosophy for living. Some philosophies work better at building tomorrows then others.

    As we humans have progressed, small tribes have evolved in great nations and great religions. All religions have two intellectual components to them. One component prescribes how we should connect and interact with god. The other component prescribes how should connect and interact with each other. Different religions have different prescriptions for living.

    No human has ever truly known god – all we have are ever progressing viewpoints. Jesus gave us God 2.0. He undated the previous viewpoint of god. His God 2.0 was merciful, loving, forgiving, and hopeful. God 1.0 was harsh and vengeful. Jesus’ viewpoint on human relations are idealistic. He prescribed hope, respect for life, love for one’s neighbor, seeking truth, forgiving, and extending grace to all. (Considering the nature of organized religion, how these ideals ever filtered down to us today is a miracle.)

    You godless atheists have thrown out the idealist Christian baby with the religious bathwater.

    You two have embraced the mean old gonad god 1.0 by supporting the Jew tribe.

    Is atheism really progress – or it just reverting to the gonad world of the strong over the week?

    Art

    I’ve said it before – I agree completely with your analysis of religion. Religion and Politics are no different in the sense that they are ideologies about how we live; how we treat each other, what we do when we get up in the morning. That’s the whole point of ‘culture’ – not having to start from scratch every time social interaction occurs because ‘the rules of engagement’ are understood and shared.

    I don’t know if it is deliberate but all discussions about religion in the political sphere (the realm of ‘current affairs’) go round and round discussing imponderables such as ‘does god exist’ or, irrelevant accessories such as what additional cloth to wear where, and how often to pray.

    I also agree that christianity has given us the only workable template for peaceful societies. And I say that because even though Buddhism has a lot of good points, it is not based on the concept of community. The key behavioural memes, as you point out are ‘neighbour’, ‘forgiveness’, ‘honesty’.

    Instead of ‘never again’ (war) we should be thinking more along the lines of ‘for evermore’ (peace).

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    Instead of ‘never again’ (war) we should be thinking more along the lines of ‘for evermore’ (peace).

    helena,

    Very nice - well said. Good is not the absence of bad - good must be worked at. We all want to last longer and longer. The strength to overcome the vagaries of nature comes from making rational positive connections with each other. Christian idealism guides us in making the rational decisions, that make positive long-term connections with each other. It is those connections that buttress us from the whims of nature. Those connections are not static - they have to be continuously worked at.

    Loving is about the future. When you love someone, you want a better future for them. When “you love your neighbor as you love yourself” - and they do the same - a better future is made for THEM and for YOU. The Christian ideals of hope, life, love, truth, forgiving, and grace – are NOT sweet nothings – they are not feel good platitudes – they are everyday practical measures to a better more lasting ongoing fruitful life.

    Art
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  261. iffen says:
    @Anonymous
    The US was spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs.
    After the Holocaust Israel was not going to go down and be murdered en masse by genocidal Muslims.
    NEVER AGAIN.

    You guys say NOTHING about:
    A. RUSSIA --
    1) shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 902
    2.) Korean Air Lines Flight 007,

    These civilian airlines were spying for the US

    B.) AMERICA--
    1.) Iran Air Flight 655 shot down by US fighter jet
    2.)TWA 800 -shot down by "stray" US Navy missile--or was it an Iranian missile? ALL COVERED UP BY BILL CLINTON.


    C. CHINESE -
    1.) Hainan incident where a US spy plane collided with a Chinese plane and was brought down with the Chinese holding the crew and dismantling the plane and stealing US secrets

    D.) the recent incident where river patrol boats were spying on Iran and Iran captured the crew and humiliated them for the word to see. The truth of the whole incident has been embargoesd

    So you see the US has a LONG history of spying on and behaving aggressively towards some countries who never harmed them.

    You sow what you reap. Israel will defend itself to the ends of the earth.
    NEVER AGAIN

    Blame the American Govt for the USS Liberty.
    You dont spy on friends and give intel to their enemy who ultimately is your enemy too

    So come come with this BS about how Israel attacked an innocent ship--it was no such thing It was SPYING.

    The US was spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs.

    Do you have any facts to back this opinion?

    The only plausible explanation for a deliberate attack that I can come up with is that the Israelis had no confidence in the ability of the USN to keep any information about troop movements out of the hands of the Soviets and therefore the Arabs. You have added the possibility that it would have been a willful act on the part of the US to manipulate the war to a conclusion that it considered desirable, very interesting.

    Read More
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  262. @Art
    Thanks NosytheDuke,

    He is new to me.

    I am looking into him - this is very interesting.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87rokCqk0Po

    Again Thanks --- Art

    I’ve read a couple of his books. The one I enjoyed the most was Jesus for the non-religious.

    Read More
    • Replies: @Art
    NosytheDuke - Thanks again

    Here is another fine YouTube video of Bishop Spong.

    "What a New Christianity for a New World will Contain"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGriJgAAWvw

    This is different - very thoughtful.

    It is for everyone - but atheists (they already know everything - they even know what they can't prove).

    Art
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  263. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous
    The US was spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs.
    After the Holocaust Israel was not going to go down and be murdered en masse by genocidal Muslims.
    NEVER AGAIN.

    You guys say NOTHING about:
    A. RUSSIA --
    1) shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 902
    2.) Korean Air Lines Flight 007,

    These civilian airlines were spying for the US

    B.) AMERICA--
    1.) Iran Air Flight 655 shot down by US fighter jet
    2.)TWA 800 -shot down by "stray" US Navy missile--or was it an Iranian missile? ALL COVERED UP BY BILL CLINTON.


    C. CHINESE -
    1.) Hainan incident where a US spy plane collided with a Chinese plane and was brought down with the Chinese holding the crew and dismantling the plane and stealing US secrets

    D.) the recent incident where river patrol boats were spying on Iran and Iran captured the crew and humiliated them for the word to see. The truth of the whole incident has been embargoesd

    So you see the US has a LONG history of spying on and behaving aggressively towards some countries who never harmed them.

    You sow what you reap. Israel will defend itself to the ends of the earth.
    NEVER AGAIN

    Blame the American Govt for the USS Liberty.
    You dont spy on friends and give intel to their enemy who ultimately is your enemy too

    So come come with this BS about how Israel attacked an innocent ship--it was no such thing It was SPYING.

    Firedup,

    Please detach from the USA already. The USSLiberty incident is a case in study for showing the pernicious influence of the Lobby on the US policies. Since the USSLiberty tragedy they ziocons have pushed the US towards the Middle East wars that both emptied the US treasury and “enhanced” the image of the US due to 3 million dead (the innocents of all ages) and 10 million refugees (don’t you like the pics of dead children washed out on the shores of Europe?) These wars have been following the Oded Yinon Plan for Eretz Israel. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The%20Zionist%20Plan%20for%20the%20Middle%20East.pdf
    Meanwhile, the “Never Again” has become a battle cry for the Israeli power-thirsty racists of uncertain ethnicity like you spectacular Avigdor Lieberman, a Moldovan felon. The “Never Again” does not stop Israelis (and Israel-firsters like Nuland and Kagans) from cooperating with “freedom fighters” of ISIS and neo-nazis of the regime-changed Ukraine. By the way, is Kolomojsky (the Ukrainian oligarch that financed the neo-nazi thugs of Azov battalion involved in burning alive some 40 civilians in Odessa) is still an Israeli citizen?
    Don’t even think of accusing me of anti-semitism: it was Hanna Arndt, the best among the news Jews, who predicted the danger of triumph of banality of evil in Israel. There is a difference between Bach and Hitler (both were Germans) and between Einstein and Netanyahu (Jews).

    Read More
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  264. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous
    The US was spying on Israel and giving the info to the Arabs.
    After the Holocaust Israel was not going to go down and be murdered en masse by genocidal Muslims.
    NEVER AGAIN.

    You guys say NOTHING about:
    A. RUSSIA --
    1) shot down Korean Air Lines Flight 902
    2.) Korean Air Lines Flight 007,

    These civilian airlines were spying for the US

    B.) AMERICA--
    1.) Iran Air Flight 655 shot down by US fighter jet
    2.)TWA 800 -shot down by "stray" US Navy missile--or was it an Iranian missile? ALL COVERED UP BY BILL CLINTON.


    C. CHINESE -
    1.) Hainan incident where a US spy plane collided with a Chinese plane and was brought down with the Chinese holding the crew and dismantling the plane and stealing US secrets

    D.) the recent incident where river patrol boats were spying on Iran and Iran captured the crew and humiliated them for the word to see. The truth of the whole incident has been embargoesd

    So you see the US has a LONG history of spying on and behaving aggressively towards some countries who never harmed them.

    You sow what you reap. Israel will defend itself to the ends of the earth.
    NEVER AGAIN

    Blame the American Govt for the USS Liberty.
    You dont spy on friends and give intel to their enemy who ultimately is your enemy too

    So come come with this BS about how Israel attacked an innocent ship--it was no such thing It was SPYING.

    Sorry for misspelling the Hannah Arendt name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Arendt

    Read More
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  265. “Korean Air Lines Flight 007″
    “These civilian airlines were spying for the US”

    “The US planned to find the black boxes of the passenger aircraft but was outstripped by the USSR who detected the boxes first. All the data deciphered by the USSR after the catastrophe was handed over to South Korea in 1992 by Russian President Boris Yeltsin.

    “The International Civil Aviation Organization conducted an investigation into the case and concluded that the ill-fated passenger plane had deviated from its initial course due to the Korean pilots’ mistake and then erroneously intruded into Soviet airspace.

    “Japan’s Foreign Ministry has declassified diplomatic documents proving that the shooting down of the Korean Air Boeing-747 by the USSR was an accident, not an act of intentional “barbarism” as Washington tried to convince the international community for decades.

    http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151227/1032377880/washington-lied-ussr-downed-ke007-by-accident.html

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  266. “Korean Air Lines Flight 902″
    ““These civilian airlines were spying for the US”

    “Bosov incorrectly identified the plane as a United States Air Force reconnaissance RC-135. When reporting back to Tsarkov, Bosov said he could see a maple leaf on the plane’s tail, implying that it belonged to North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO). After a few moments, he corrected himself, stating that he could see Chinese characters and the “maple leaf” was actually a red stork with wings spread.[5]

    “According to Kim’s account of the attack, the interceptor approached his aircraft from the right side rather than the left as required by International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) regulation.[5] Kim decreased his speed and turned on the navigation lights, indicating that he was ready to follow the Soviet fighter for landing.[5]

    “According to Soviet reports, the intruder repeatedly ignored commands to follow the interceptor, and Flight 902 began drifting toward Finland. However, tapes released by Rovaniemi Area Control Centre show that Kim transmitted a call signal three times immediately prior to being shot down and attempted to communicate with the intercepting pilot.

    “Bosov tried to convince his superiors that the plane was not a military threat, but after receiving orders to shoot it down[4][5] he fired a pair of R-60 missiles. The first missile flew past the target.[5] The second one hit the left wing, knocking off approximately four meters of its length. The missile also punctured the fuselage, causing rapid decompression and jamming one of the plane’s four turbines.[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902

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  267. Art says:
    @helena
    I've said it before - I agree completely with your analysis of religion. Religion and Politics are no different in the sense that they are ideologies about how we live; how we treat each other, what we do when we get up in the morning. That's the whole point of 'culture' - not having to start from scratch every time social interaction occurs because 'the rules of engagement' are understood and shared.

    I don't know if it is deliberate but all discussions about religion in the political sphere (the realm of 'current affairs') go round and round discussing imponderables such as 'does god exist' or, irrelevant accessories such as what additional cloth to wear where, and how often to pray.

    I also agree that christianity has given us the only workable template for peaceful societies. And I say that because even though Buddhism has a lot of good points, it is not based on the concept of community. The key behavioural memes, as you point out are 'neighbour', 'forgiveness', 'honesty'.

    Instead of 'never again' (war) we should be thinking more along the lines of 'for evermore' (peace).

    Instead of ‘never again’ (war) we should be thinking more along the lines of ‘for evermore’ (peace).

    helena,

    Very nice – well said. Good is not the absence of bad – good must be worked at. We all want to last longer and longer. The strength to overcome the vagaries of nature comes from making rational positive connections with each other. Christian idealism guides us in making the rational decisions, that make positive long-term connections with each other. It is those connections that buttress us from the whims of nature. Those connections are not static – they have to be continuously worked at.

    Loving is about the future. When you love someone, you want a better future for them. When “you love your neighbor as you love yourself” – and they do the same – a better future is made for THEM and for YOU. The Christian ideals of hope, life, love, truth, forgiving, and grace – are NOT sweet nothings – they are not feel good platitudes – they are everyday practical measures to a better more lasting ongoing fruitful life.

    Art

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  268. Art says:
    @NoseytheDuke
    I've read a couple of his books. The one I enjoyed the most was Jesus for the non-religious.

    NosytheDuke – Thanks again

    Here is another fine YouTube video of Bishop Spong.

    “What a New Christianity for a New World will Contain”

    This is different – very thoughtful.

    It is for everyone – but atheists (they already know everything – they even know what they can’t prove).

    Art

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  269. Priss Factor [AKA "Anonymny"] says: • Website

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/cuomo-and-b-d-s-can-new-york-state-boycott-a-boycott

    Powerful Jews use their gentile puppets to ban a boycott of Zionist oppression of Palestinians. Jews say you must comply with Zionist imperialism and oppression, or you will be destroyed. Jews who made a big deal of their role in the boycott to end Southern Segregation and South African apartheid(even though Israel was then South Africa’s #1 ally) are now saying that if you boycott Israel for its human right violations and imperialism, YOU will be destroyed.

    That is how power works. So, powerful Jews can say and do anything. Truth and Justice are whatever Jews say it is. Jews can even fool morons into believing ‘gay marriage’ is real marriage and that those who boycott homo degeneracy will be destroyed.
    That is globalism in action. If you boycott homo decadence and Zionist oppression, YOU will be targeted and destroyed. You must comply with Homo Imperialism. You must comply with Zionist oppression and terror against Palestinians.

    Jewish-and-Homo imperialists destroyed Middle East and North Africa and set off a massive refugee crisis, but these a**holes say that EUROPE must take in all these ‘refugees’.

    If they don’t, they are labeled as ‘Nazis’ or the ‘far right’.

    So, surrender to the Jewish flag and the homo flag, the proxy flag of Jewish Globalist Imperialism. Jews fund the homo agenda all over the world.

    Incidentally, Cuomo’s collaborationist outfit will punish businesses with $250,000 if they refer to man-in-dress-and-wig as ‘he’ than ‘she’. That is America under Jewish and Homo power. A clown show.

    We need PALESTINIANS AS A METAPHOR.

    We are all Palestinians living under Zio-Globalist Occupation.

    EU, US, Australia, and Canada are NOT free nations. They are Occupied Territories just like ‘Israel’(once Palestine) and West Bank.

    Since Jews don’t have the numbers to demographically take over US, Canada, Australia, and EU nations(like they did with Palestine), Jews use masses of Third World hordes as proxy so that whites will lose the electoral power to potentially unite against Jewish power.
    Jews plan to use browns, blacks, yellows, and Muslims against whites. Of course, white cuck-collaborators like Merkel, Hillary, Blair, Cameron, Hollande, and Trudeau are handsomely rewarded materially, and so they betray their own people and serve the Jews and Homos. And plenty of white millennials have been raised from cradle to be SJW-types.

    WE ARE ALL PALESTINIANS-AS-METAPHOR.

    Democracy can be a form of Imperialism.
    Why and how?
    Democracy is about rule of majority. So, if you change the majority, the nature of power in democracy changes.

    What would happen if Palestinians were to become the electoral majority in Israel? Say goodbye to Israel as a Jewish state(just like South Africa is no longer a Boer Republic but a Bongo Wasteland — but things are still so awful in other black African nations that blacks still mill into South Africa). For Israel to continue as a Jewish state even after Arabs constitute the majority, democracy would have to be ended, and there must be something like Apartheid(which is the case in West Bank). Democracy empowers and ensures Jews in Israel ONLY AS LONG AS Jews are the majority. With a Jewish majority, democracy is a great blessing to the Jews. With an Arab majority, democracy would be the worst enemy to the Jews.

    Of course, you don’t necessarily need majority power to have power if your people are smart enough to gain control of all media, most of academia, law, politicians, and etc. Jews are only 2% of the US, but they have elite control of key institutions and industries. Also, as Holocaust has been made the faith of the West, it is taboo to say anything negative about Jews. It’d be like anyone badmouthing God or Jesus in the Middle Ages. Jews made it so that Jews, Homos, and blacks are quasi-deified. They are godly. Any criticism of Jews is ‘antisemitism’. Any criticism of blacks is ‘racism’. Any criticism of homo is ‘homophobia’. Only those three groups have special words to denounce any criticism of them.

    Because Jews have special smarts and talents, they can gain tremendous power in a democracy without majority power. Since they control media, finance, academia, and politicians, they can sway, manipulate, and control the hearts, minds, eyes, and ears of the majority.

    In contrast, white people need demographic majority power to maintain dominance in Western nations. So, when even their majority status slips from them, they are Palestinianized and finished.

    Look what happened to Palestinians once they were made the minority in what became Israel. We like to think that democracy empowers a people, but it can disempower a people if they become the minority and are out-voted by the new majority.
    Look what happened to white conservatives in California. They once used to dominate the state. Today, they are nothing no matter how much they vote for conservative policies.
    Same democracy but different results because brown-yellow-black votes came to vastly outnumber the white vote. Also, Jewish power and money bought up all the cuck-collaborators among the remaining whites.

    So, the idea of spreading ‘freedom through democracy’ isn’t necessarily true if you change the demographic balance of a nation.

    Suppose there is a nation that is dictatorial and repressive.
    Suppose US invades and brings democracy to that nation. Sounds good, right?
    If the US doesn’t mess with the demographic balance of the nation, things might turn out good for the native people via democracy. Democracy did good for Japanese and Germans after WWII since their nations were all Japanese or all German.

    But suppose US not only brings democracy but demographic changes whereby the native majority soon becomes a minority to masses of new arrivals.
    In that case, democracy will not empower but enslave the natives since democracy will favor the majority of new arrivals.

    Whites not only conquered Hawaii but invited in tons of yellows. With whites and yellows vastly outnumbering native Hawaiians, democracy doesn’t do any good for the native Hawaiians. Whites and yellows will always out-vote them if the natives want national independence and want to take Hawaii back.

    So, democracy is two-edged sword. It will free and empower your people if they constitute the solid majority. But it will disadvantage and enslave your people if they become the minority who are outvoted by the new majority.

    Jews gained control of the West. As globo-imperialist rulers, they decided to bring in masses of non-whites, turn them against whites, and use them as the new majority against whites.
    When whites were the solid majority, democracy was on their side. It was their great weapon.
    But now as whites become minorities, democracy is becoming their mortal enemy, their gloom-and-doom oppressor. Look at London, the English capital, that is now run by some dotkin mayor.

    It’s not about Left vs Right. It is about whites under Jewish globo-imperialist rule. Jews seek to weaken white power by bringing in tons of non-whites.

    As whites increasingly become smaller in number, they can only win by voting as a unified bloc(like whites do in the American South), but white vote remains divided because Jews run media & academia and have poisoned so many white minds with ‘white guilt’, ‘diversity mania’, ‘jungle fever’, ‘bamboo fever’, ‘exotica’, and shallowness all around.

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  270. @Joe Stalin
    "Former NSA Officials Agree

    David C. Walsh

    The jamming of unique U.S. frequencies during the Liberty incident seems to establish deliberate intent. And in exclusive interviews with this author, several former high-level National Security Agency (NSA) officials agree.

    On 14 February 2003, the "godfather" of the NSA's Auxiliary General Technical Research program, Oliver Kirby, noted that the Liberty was "my baby." Within weeks of the calamity, Kirby, deputy director for operations/production, read U.S. signals intelligence (SigInt)-generated transcripts and "staff reports" at NSA's Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters. They were of Israeli pilots' conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it "absolutely certain" they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said. Kirby's is the first public disclosure by a top-level NSA senior of deliberate intent based on personal analyses of SigInt material.

    In an interview on 24 February 2003, retired Air Force Major General John Morrison, the agency's then-second-in-command (and Kirby's successor), said he had been informed at the time of Kirby's findings and endorsed them. Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom said on 3 March 2003 said that, on the strength of such data, the attack's deliberateness "just wasn't a disputed issue" within the agency. On 5 March 2003, retired Navy Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, NSA director from 1977-1981, said he "flatly rejected" the Cristol/Israeli thesis. "It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [the Liberty] was not correctly identified." He said this was based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge. All four were unaware of any agency official at that time or later who dissented from the "deliberate" conclusion.

    Naval Institute Proceedings
    Friendless Fire by David C_ Walsh
    June 2003
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  271. Jeff Gates, author of
    on Abe Fortas and pre-planning of the 1967 war and the attack on the USS Liberty

    h/t https://vidrebel.wordpress.com/2013/07/10/the-jewish-strategy-of-occupying-the-middle-ground/

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  272. iffen says:
    @Sam Shama
    Hi Robin,
    I'll do so, thank you much.

    Comment #270 links to Friendless Fire